# when you put the ring on sex stops



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops , 
many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others 
some even make jokes like " do you want to F my wife , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open 
to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time , 
we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the guys wife must feel sad and angry that others are giggling about her


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,
> many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others
> some even make jokes like " *do you want to F my wife* , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open
> to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time ,
> we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the* guys wife must feel sad and angry* that others are giggling about her


If sex hadn't stopped before, disrespecting wife like that sure isn't going to improve anything. Maybe in lot of marriages the old joke applies, if put quarter in jar each encounter during first year, and take one out every encounter thereafter, the jar will never empty. There must be some truth there or it wouldn't have become such a joke. Maybe those asking in a group setting "do you want F my wife" are testing waters in a dumb way for "hot wife" scenario.

Seriously, my opinion is if intimacy disappears after marriage, either they did something(s) to really piss their wife off or his bride sold him a bill of goods and wasn't into him to begin with.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

may be I am blind but I think most people do not use sex to get ahead , i think women now are happy to have their own job and even if they get married they keep their job the day of marring a man to become a housewife is long gone ,


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I don't make jokes about it but it happened in my situation. When we were dating we had sex almost every day. We did all kinds of stuff and it was awesome.

Now 6 years later she has no interest and we are down to 2-3x per month and its more of less "hurry up and get it over sex" She says she really isn't interested any more.

Maybe its just me and I suck as a lover? Who knows? But I certainly felt like I was duped as she doesn't work and doesn't put out so I just have a room mate anymore who doesn't even help out with paying the bills.

It appears we are headed for divorce and that will cost me a pretty penny being she has no income.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> divorce


do you have to get a divorce ?
can you not just walk away many people don't even get married now not in the church or in the town hall


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> do you have to get a divorce ?
> can you not just walk away many people don't even get married now not in the church or in the town hall


Nope we are legally married so I am stuck.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

It could be because once a man of a ring on her finger, he stood working and chatting get. He caught her, so to speak.
It takes time and effort to keep intimacy and romance alive healthy in a maintrriagel let kqa⁹.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ed3n said:


> It could be because once a man of a ring on her finger, he stood working and chatting get. He caught her, so to speak.
> It takes time and effort to keep intimacy and romance alive healthy in a maintrriagel let kqa⁹.


like dog who chased car but didnt know what to do when they caught it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Children will put a damper on the sex life. People only have so much energy and children require a lot of attention and energy - both physical and mental. They take priority until they can take care of themselves a bit.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Maybe when he puts a ring on it he stops romancing it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops


Because that's how it is. Many guys lost the "genetic lottery". But they are faithful, resourceful, able to earn a good living, and be a good father. These guys get hoodwinked into marriage because of their "qualities", of which sexual attraction isn't one..... the women feign desire for them until the altar.....con men, er, con women......

their wives feel "entitled" to have a good life at their husband's expense. They have given themselves permission to demand everything, and give nothing. Their wives have been taught by society, family-of-origin, church, etc., that it is their "right" to have their husbands become their slaves. Some of these women also think that sex is a "tool" to "get" a man.... no longer "needed" after the wedding.....



Mr.Married said:


> Maybe when he puts a ring on it he stops romancing it.


Yep. Some of them come from backgrounds in which they have understood that prior to their marriage, their wife has ****ed the "alpha" males on the first date without even requiring a condom..... in the "alpha" case, no romancing was required.....


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe when he puts a ring on it he stops romancing it.


Seriously, I think lot of folks of both genders tend to become "domesticated" for want of better word once the wedding vows are finished. Dating pressure is off and they relax, revert to whatever their real norm was. I had a friend once whose honeymoon of all times was a sexless one after he married woman he claimed was hottest chick he had ever been around, who love bombed him continuously during the courtship. Enthusiatically did everything with/for him you could think of. One of the two of them changed after the rice was thrown.

And of course there is "false advertising" in some cases, where goal was to lock down a meal ticket with marriage. They know the cost of leaving is so high for the one they duped they can safely just take sex off of the table *with the duped on*e ( who they were never really into anyway ).

When I read a post where a married woman tells her husband she doesn't want sex anymore, always think this is maximum BS. Healthy people of both genders are enthusiastic about intimacy. That's how we ended up with 8 billion humans on the planet. She just doesn't care to participate with HIM, for a variety of possible reasons.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I don’t think it is as much a conspiracy as some think. If the sex drops and that is a requirement then do something about it. A husband that stays sexless is an idiot and his own worse enemy. Perhaps now that I think about it... that is exactly why they end up like this.... because they are do nothing men. They don’t enforce their own relationship requirements. Alpha dude knows what he wants and isn’t scared to enforce it. Women like dudes that know what they want and aren’t scared to go after it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,


...in my opinion this is because many people role play a false version of themselves that is portrayed as much better, successful, and morally sound than the person that they actually are. As people date they tend to hide all their defects and undesirable traits, perhaps with the intention that those things will subside and be outgrown once entering into a marriage. Then when you get married both individual are confronted with the fact of having to keep up a lie and trying to role play this better version of themselves for the other. Perhaps this can be maintained for a few years and eventually the true person with imperfections is lost and suffocated. Intimacy can not survive without being open and honest. The relationship slowly dies and is replaced with a fear of abandonment that one can no longer maintain a role of being somebody better than who they actually believe themselves to be. ...and at this point everything becomes dead inside and a walking ghost of a relationship until divorcing or learning to embrace and accept each other as imperfect for who each really is. 50-50 chance of divorce.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Not my story. Sex didn't really drop off for about 20 years. 
FOO Issues.
CSA Issues.
Religious expectations issues.
Possibly perimenopause issues.
Fat husband issues if we want to be truthful.
But, I really can't claim Bait and switch. I just think 30 + years is a hell of a long time to stay attracted.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The sex stopped as soon as I married my first wife. That's the main reason she's my ex. She liked sex, just very _infrequently_, but didn't let on _before_ we married - bait and switch. In my current marriage, sex is still good and frequent after 21 years. I didn't change from one to the other - I was duped into a bad choice the first time.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I don’t think it is as much a conspiracy as some think. If the sex drops and that is a requirement then do something about it. A husband that stays sexless is an idiot and his own worse enemy. Perhaps now that I think about it... that is exactly why they end up like this.... because they are do nothing men. They don’t enforce their own relationship requirements. Alpha dude knows what he wants and isn’t scared to enforce it. Women like dudes that know what they want and aren’t scared to go after it. I’m not a woman but what type of guy do you think I would be looking for when I was younger if I were curious about sex? The guy unashamedly chasing me has a much better chance.... I mean let’s get real.


very true ,


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Married but Happy said:


> The sex stopped as soon as I married my first wife. That's the main reason she's my ex. She liked sex, just very _infrequently_, but didn't let on _before_ we married - bait and switch. In my current marriage, sex is still good and frequent after 21 years. I didn't change from one to the other - I was duped into a bad choice the first time.


 good job it did not for me , as i was one of these people that never had sex before it was legal ,lol and for us it was a slow up clime ever seance , 
in ways yes it was a risk now when i see all the people posting their story , i and my with are in our late 50s and yes sometimes we can go days up to 2 or even 3 weeks and other times quite more , 
and if we don't it is because we often stay up looking at to much tv or preoccupied about the money side of life , but sometimes making that extra effort can clear a lot of crap from our minds ,


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Mr. Nail said:


> Not my story. Sex didn't really drop off for about 20 years.
> FOO Issues.
> CSA Issues.
> Religious expectations issues.
> ...


 yes men are very fast to say the wife will not dress up sexy any more but we can't see our toes any more with the beer belly ,


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

A common story perhaps but I can offer it didn't happen to us. 
Sex never really faded. Peaks and valleys short times but acknowledged and planned for more sex thru young kids, but there's not really been access denied by either these thirty odd yrs.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I know have read threads on TAM from women making the same complaint that their husband went from being a passionate lover to a real dud soon after the vows.

It would be useful for either gender to determine before signing onto a long-term contract with very high cost exit conditions whether the contract conditions would soon be violated. I know a lot of people try solving this by living together for awhile to "test drive" before buying the vehicle. But, have observed relatives and friends where the live-in worked well and then crashed soon after they decided to formalize the arrangement.

Maybe today's solution is to just not formalize the arrangement ever, renegotiate the implicit contract every 2-5 years.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> A common story perhaps but I can offer it didn't happen to us.
> Sex never really faded. Peaks and valleys short times but acknowledged and planned for more sex thru young kids, but there's not really been access denied by either these thirty odd yrs.


teenage kids we found was the worst time , kids up looking at tv or just around looking for attention


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> teenage kids we found was the worst time , kids up looking at tv or just around looking for attention


Teenage years were a thing. I can say we had no issues when we said mom and dad are taking a nap, br door locked just in case. We were direct early and things just really didn't have opportunity to turn into obstructionists. We made it clear Mom and Dad were united in all things and we also would have time to ourselves.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,
> many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others
> some even make jokes like " do you want to F my wife , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open
> to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time ,
> we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the guys wife must feel sad and angry that others are giggling about her


The first and most important one is because both sexes think sex is about getting off when it's really about intimacy. If you come from a background of using it as a gauge for your self worth or currency that is going to cause all kinds of problems in your marriage in regards to sex. But this kind of thinking is the norm now.

Generally speaking I think if both men and women understand that sex is a bonding activity and a way to make them feel closer, help build a stronger marriage, and they are invested in that, then it's not going to go away but only get better. However if the wife feels like the husband is using her to have an orgasm (and lots of them do) or if she has always used it as currency and at this point there is no need to do so, then sex is going to fall off. If they guy uses it as trophy count then he probably is going to get bored and or be lazy about it.

Even if you get it though, marriage isn't easy. Consistent good sex isn't easy to come by either, just given life in general. Men and Women generally speaking have very different attitudes about sex and what is need for a good sex life, not to mention all the mixed messages about it.

As far as the joke, maybe it's the people you are hanging out with.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> I know have read threads on TAM from women making the same complaint that their husband went from being a passionate lover to a real dud soon after the vows.
> 
> It would be useful for either gender to determine before signing onto a long-term contract with very high cost exit conditions whether the contract conditions would soon be violated. I know a lot of people try solving this by living together for awhile to "test drive" before buying the vehicle. But, have observed relatives and friends where the live-in worked well and then crashed soon after they decided to formalize the arrangement.
> 
> Maybe today's solution is to just not formalize the arrangement ever, renegotiate the implicit contract every 2-5 years.


Well I know I would not get married again. Staying single would keep both partners on their toes to keep the other one happy.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

sokillme said:


> The first and most important one is because both sexes think sex is about getting off when it's really about intimacy. If you come from a background of using it as a gauge for your self worth or currency that is going to cause all kinds of problems in your marriage in regards to sex. But this kind of thinking is the norm now.
> 
> Generally speaking* I think if both men and women understand that sex is a bonding activity and a way to make them feel closer, help build a stronger marriage, and they are invested in that, then it's not going to go away but only get better.* However if the wife feels like the husband is using her to have an orgasm (and lots of them do) or if she has always used it as currency and at this point there is no need to do so, then sex is going to fall off. If they guy uses it as trophy count then he probably is going to get bored and or be lazy about it.
> 
> ...


This has been wife n my dynamic.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mine slowed down a bit during early children years but back around to 5x/week. Wife rarely ever declines, maybe 1/20, but due to being very tired or may be late and have to get up really early. Wife also knows i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense. But i keep her very satisfied so she is usually always eager to play.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For us that's when it started.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> Mine slowed down a bit during early children years but back around to 5x/week. Wife rarely ever declines, maybe 1/20, but due to being very tired or may be late and have to get up really early. Wife also knows i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense. But i keep her very satisfied so she is usually always eager to play.


So would you really bail if she started saying No? Especially knowing it could cost you a ton of money and assets? And maybe seeing your kids? Have you told her that directly?

I am at that point now thats why I ask. 20 years ago I would have already jumped ship but now that its my only option and I am older, I am having to weigh things carefully.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Mine slowed down a bit during early children years but back around to 5x/week. Wife rarely ever declines, maybe 1/20, but due to being very tired or may be late and have to get up really early. Wife also knows i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense. But i keep her very satisfied so she is usually always eager to play.


"" i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense"" sounds like blackmail


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Don't blame it on marriage. 

The sex stops when you are with someone who isn't interested in sex with you. Full stop.

If someone is interested in a great sex life with you, you'll be having a great sex life, marriage or no marriage.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Don't blame it on marriage.
> 
> The sex stops when you are with someone who isn't interested in sex with you. Full stop.
> 
> If someone is interested in a great sex life with you, you'll be having a great sex life, marriage or no marriage.


I kind of agree however I do think not being married puts some reminder in folks minds to keep at it or they will lose the partner. Most single people I know use that to their advantage (both make and female) to keep their partner happy and participating in all aspects of the relationship not just sex as walking away from a GF or BF is far easier than divorce.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So would you really bail if she started saying No? Especially knowing it could cost you a ton of money and assets? And maybe seeing your kids? Have you told her that directly?
> 
> I am at that point now thats why I ask. 20 years ago I would have already jumped ship but now that its my only option and I am older, I am having to weigh things carefully.


The answer should immediately be yes. Yes, yes, and yes. Understand what you want and the things you require in a relationship and make them known ......PERIOD. With that said I also love my wife and would give her a little time to get herself straightened out. I’m talking 4 to 6 months..... that’s it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Livvie said:


> If someone is interested in a great sex life with you, you'll be having a great sex life


And as you speak your solid gold obvious truth ..... people will invent anything imaginable to deny it. Go figure ......


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I kind of agree however I do think not being married puts some reminder in folks minds to keep at it or they will lose the partner. Most single people I know use that to their advantage (both make and female) to keep their partner happy and participating in all aspects of the relationship not just sex as walking away from a GF or BF is far easier than divorce.


Everyone knows your sexually starving. If I were you I would be very careful with the sex bomb she will drop on you when you go for divorce....... be very careful.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I wonder what impact the amount of time a couple is sexually involved prior to marriage has on frequency after getting married. Does a couple that gets married after 6 months see the same decline as a couple that gets married after 6 years. 

Some of it is because there is that newness early in a relationship. Also, society and religion has conditioned into thinking premarital sex is taboo. That can further add to the thrill. After being married sex is the norm and expected. 

My wife and I dated about 27 months before getting married. About 24 of those we were having sex. I don't really feel like the sex frequency or quality dropped after getting married. I never noticed any change. We were married about 8 years before we had kids. There are a lot of factors that go into this. I don't think you can simply say marriage decreases the frequency of sex.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I wonder what impact the amount of time a couple is sexually involved prior to marriage has on frequency after getting married. Does a couple that gets married after 6 months see the same decline as a couple that gets married after 6 years.
> 
> Some of it is because there is that newness early in a relationship. Also, society and religion has conditioned into thinking premarital sex is taboo. That can further add to the thrill. After being married sex is the norm and expected.
> 
> My wife and I dated about 27 months before getting married. About 24 of those we were having sex. I don't really feel like the sex frequency or quality dropped after getting married. I never noticed any change. We were married about 8 years before we had kids. There are a lot of factors that go into this. I don't think you can simply say marriage decreases the frequency of sex.


Good point Big. We dated for 4 years before marriage and the sex was great. 

But I do think marriage has multiple components that can lead to the sex aspect. Like my wife not working. She knows she doesn't have to now as I am supporting us. I think she has taken the same view of sex. Why do it if he will stil take care of things? Maybe its her? Maybe its me? Not really sure just tired of trying after a few years of effort. Hate to even think about it anymore. And probably talking about it here isn't helping either? Not sure?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I don't make jokes about it but it happened in my situation. When we were dating we had sex almost every day. We did all kinds of stuff and it was awesome.
> 
> Now 6 years later she has no interest and we are down to 2-3x per month and its more of less "hurry up and get it over sex" She says she really isn't interested any more.
> 
> ...


You’re in a sexless marriage. Not uncommon. Your life and how you live it is totally up to you. No one else.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> I know have read threads on TAM from women making the same complaint that their husband went from being a passionate lover to a real dud soon after the vows.
> 
> It would be useful for either gender to determine before signing onto a long-term contract with very high cost exit conditions whether the contract conditions would soon be violated. I know a lot of people try solving this by living together for awhile to "test drive" before buying the vehicle. But, have observed relatives and friends where the live-in worked well and then crashed soon after they decided to formalize the arrangement.
> 
> Maybe today's solution is to just not formalize the arrangement ever, renegotiate the implicit contract every 2-5 years.


Yep, it’s not gender specific.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I don't make jokes about it but it happened in my situation. When we were dating we had sex almost every day. We did all kinds of stuff and it was awesome.
> 
> Now 6 years later she has no interest and we are down to 2-3x per month and its more of less "hurry up and get it over sex" She says she really isn't interested any more.
> 
> ...


We call that the "bait and switch"


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Good point Big. We dated for 4 years before marriage and the sex was great.
> 
> But I do think marriage has multiple components that can lead to the sex aspect. Like my wife not working. She knows she doesn't have to now as I am supporting us. I think she has taken the same view of sex. Why do it if he will stil take care of things? Maybe its her? Maybe its me? Not really sure just tired of trying after a few years of effort. Hate to even think about it anymore. And probably talking about it here isn't helping either? Not sure?


You have taught her that you are fine with her not working and you fully supporting her in every way. Not all men would be okay with that, and not all women would be okay with that.

As for sex, if she wanted to have it with you-- she would be having it with you.

She must not be worried about her financial future, nor the state of the marrige, if she knows you are not satisfied with the state of your intimate relationship and still does nothing to improve it.

She knows you aren't going anywhere, or that if you did, she wouldn't care much/it would be okay with her.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But I do think marriage has multiple components that can lead to the sex aspect. Like my wife not working. She knows she doesn't have to now as I am supporting us. I think she has taken the same view of sex. Why do it if he will stil take care of things? Maybe its her? Maybe its me? Not really sure just tired of trying after a few years of effort. Hate to even think about it anymore. And probably talking about it here isn't helping either? Not sure?


Sorry you're dealing with that man. It makes me think of the saying "treat her like a star and she'll treat you like a fan"


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ed3n said:


> It could be because once a man of a ring on her finger, he stood working and chatting get. He caught her, so to speak.
> It takes time and effort to keep intimacy and romance alive healthy in a maintrriagel let kqa⁹.


Load of bs


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> "" i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense"" sounds like blackmail


How so? It's direct and honest. There's no threat and you know where you stand.

Then again, I know people who believe sex is not a requirement and ending a relationship for lack of sex is abusive. I disagree (obviously).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DTO said:


> How so? It's direct and honest. There's no threat and you know where you stand.
> 
> Then again, I know people who believe sex is not a requirement and ending a relationship for lack of sex is abusive. I disagree (obviously).


Its not blackmail, there is no threat of exposing something. However, it is basically extortion. Give me sex or I kick you to the curb.

That said, I actually agree with the stance, he just put it out there in a harsh way. Sex is an integral part of marriage. I know personally I want a wife, not a roommate, even if she is a very good roommate.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> "" i deem withholding sex as sexually immoral behavior and a divorcable offense"" sounds like blackmail


Not at all. She can make he choice as to what she wants to do, and i make a choice as to what i will tolerate in my marriage. I tolerated a female for years that i was not in a sexual relationship with.....she was my sister. I refuse to live with my sister. 

It's no more blackmail than telling a spouse that is going out partying "with the girls" and not returning till morning, i will not tolerate it. 
You get what you will tolerate.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I would advise any young man against marriage, it only gets worse. No reason to put yourself in such a situation nowadays. I know there are happily married men, but they'd just as easily be happily single men with a larger sampling tray.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Not at all. She can make he choice as to what she wants to do, and i make a choice as to what i will tolerate in my marriage. I tolerated a female for years that i was not in a sexual relationship with.....she was my sister. I refuse to live with my sister.
> 
> It's no more blackmail than telling a spouse that is going out partying "with the girls" and not returning till morning, i will not tolerate it.
> You get what you will tolerate.


Withholding sex is fine. But don't blame the dude when he outsources your services.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would advise any young man against marriage, it only gets worse. No reason to put yourself in such a situation nowadays. I know there are happily married men, but they'd just as easily be happily single men with a larger sampling tray.


Agreed. The risks outweigh the rewards.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So would you really bail if she started saying No? Especially knowing it could cost you a ton of money and assets? And maybe seeing your kids? Have you told her that directly?
> 
> I am at that point now thats why I ask. 20 years ago I would have already jumped ship but now that its my only option and I am older, I am having to weigh things carefully.


At 2-3x a month for a bit i was prepari g to hit eject. As one who's love language is physical, i was feeling very unloved and seriously stressed. I read NMMNG and many other books. I dropped 50 lbs in 5.5 weeks and hit the weights hard. Buffed up, lost weight and being more aloof emotionally to protect myself. She about crapped. Said she thought i was already out the door. She was so wraped up in other things she did not realize it was 10-12 days between being intimate. I had made up my mind if she does not recognize and make a change, i was going to hit tge ground running and looking damn good when i do.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

My ex husband and I had a great sex life before and after marriage. Then about 5 years into the marriage he started treating me like s*it and the abuse started. He used to take good care of himself and gained so much weight and so many bad habits. As an example he'd been awful to me all day, called me a f*cking ***** I lost count, would burp in my face and laugh, would ignore me if I tried talking to him, would bend over naked in front of me and fart and thought it was funny. Then he'd expect sex after abusing me and talking to me like trash all day and night, and episodes of silent treatment. The thought of sex with him started to repulse me. Please tell me all men don't do this lol? It's a turn off.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would advise any young man against marriage, it only gets worse. No reason to put yourself in such a situation nowadays. I know there are happily married men, but they'd just as easily be happily single men with a larger sampling tray.


I wouldn't be anywhere near as happy as I am without my wife and children. I'm assuming you are bitter over something that has happened to you in the past. And women are a sampling tray? Bitter. cynical and sexist all rolled in one post. I think you need to find something that makes you happy. 

What's you advice for young women?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,
> many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others
> some even make jokes like " do you want to F my wife , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open
> to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time ,
> we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the guys wife must feel sad and angry that others are giggling about her


I can't say that we have experienced this with other couple friends. If I were to witness such a thing, I know that it's unlikely that I'd keep my mouth shout if the other wife didn't respond and it was intended as a slight against her. I also imagine that my respect for both of them would be dented. For him treating her that way, and for her acceptance of it.

We have experienced other couples have brief spats, typically when they have been stressed or we're spending a bit more time with them than usual. In those instances, I'll hang back unless they look to hubs and I for input and that's more of an approach to either offer objectivity or diffuse. Granted, nothing serious - just a minor spat that might have surfaced - and friends whom we are close with. While I might not like that as such, I consider those instances differently and their relationships are typically solid; they've just gotten into a 'moment'.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DTO said:


> How so? It's direct and honest. There's no threat and you know where you stand.
> 
> Then again, I know people who believe sex is not a requirement and ending a relationship for lack of sex is abusive. I disagree (obviously).


it sounds cold, it sounds contractual, it sounds caveman , rough and hard , 
while I agree that sex is important to me and if there is a period of a long time for not understandable reason (health or otherwise) then I would start to look into why and what we need to do and we would need to have a talk about it and my wife thinks the same way , 
you see I want my wife to be free free to choose to be with me every day not because she has to be not because she put her x on a bit of paper many years ago , I don't ever want my wife to have sex with me I want her to make love to me if she wants sex she can go screw her sex toy ,deep down if she just want sex the type that sounds like fur filling a contract i would gladly tell her to become a hotwife or what ever I make love to my wife sometimes it can be twice in the same day sometimes it can be twice a week and sometimes only once in a month , if it goes over say 6 weeks i would be thinking I or she need to start looking at why , we are in your late 50s so not as young as before and not a much hormones 

but what is more important to me is going to bed every night and we been able cuddle into each-other a union of two become one , if there is a coldness it is then you will feel it that little difference between together and been together , 

yes there are women that have a bad time when the menopause time and for some women it can be a hard time , I don't have any experience except the time my wife came to that time in her life she was lucky ,


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I wouldn't be anywhere near as happy as I am without my wife and children. I'm assuming you are bitter over something that has happened to you in the past. And women are a sampling tray? Bitter. cynical and sexist all rolled in one post. I think you need to find something that makes you happy.
> 
> What's you advice for young women?


Cynical? Of course, I am! Why wouldn't I be, 50% of marriages end in divorce, 2/3rds of which are initiated by women. Broken homes everywhere. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them until it does. People think they deserve it all and put in minimal effort. People are more absorbed with their Instagram than their spouse.

Why encourage some young man sign up for that? Why am I targeting men because I can relate to men because I am one, not to mention they are 5x more likely to stick a gun down their throat after it goes south. They are more likely to get walked out on and have their wallet ripped through their assholes with every other weekend visits with their kids in their one bedroom apartments. Until that scenario changes, no ma'am.

My advise for young women? Destroy your social media before it destroys you.

I'm glad it's going well for you, but then why are you here?
Do you have golden nuggets of wisdom for the rest of the statistics?

But me, I'm happy as a clown.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Cynical? Of course, I am! Why wouldn't I be, 50% of marriages end in divorce, 2/3rds of which are initiated by women. Broken homes everywhere. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them until it does. People think they deserve it all and put in minimal effort. People are more absorbed with their Instagram than their spouse.
> 
> Why encourage some young man sign up for that? Why am I targeting men because I can relate to men because I am one, not to mention they are 5x more likely to stick a gun down their throat after it goes south. They are more likely to get walked out on and have their wallet ripped through their assholes with every other weekend visits with their kids in their one bedroom apartments. Until that scenario changes, no ma'am.
> 
> ...


you have some very good points and some stand as much for women as for men , 
yes 50% of marriages end in divorce , I CAN NOT SAY or point the finger at any one as to why , it takes two to make a relationship and only one to brake it , so we are powerless in a way , but many people go into a marriage that is doomed or for the wrong resons 
but it is better for people to get the feck out of a bad marriage than to stay in to keep up appearances 

you say men 5x more likely to stick a gun down their throat after it goes south.. first it don't make it right if you can't deal with what happened doing this is stupid but if I look I could come up with other 5x things desperate women do to harm themselves it still is a final salutation to a temporary problem , and not right 

your advice to young women I would think goes for men also "My advise for young women? Destroy your social media " 
social media is like driving a car good if used in the right way but abused it will hurt you or others or both 

you ask why he is here 
"I'm glad it's going well for you, but then why are you here?
Do you have golden nuggets of wisdom for the rest of the statistics?"
everyone has the right to be here everyone here sould be bale give their advice and take advice , some things we are strong on other things we need help with , and just been able get it out can be good , the ones that come here and think they know it all are full of sh1t ,and the ones with closed minds will have closed minds after they get tired of banning the drum .
any person that has years of experience needs to feel he is welcome


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Its not blackmail, there is no threat of exposing something. However, it is basically extortion. Give me sex or I kick you to the curb.
> 
> That said, I actually agree with the stance, he just put it out there in a harsh way. Sex is an integral part of marriage. I know personally I want a wife, not a roommate, even if she is a very good roommate.


No extortion...if wife does not want to make love to me then she does not love me so end of story. I will not remain in a loveless marriage. For one to marry and then deny sex and expect that spouse to remain sexless is believing you can hold the other hostage in a loveless marriage. Not gonna happen. I am one who feels emotional connection through physical intimacy, so I'm not one that can have open marriage. I will have to eject.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> My ex husband and I had a great sex life before and after marriage. Then about 5 years into the marriage he started treating me like s*it and the abuse started. He used to take good care of himself and gained so much weight and so many bad habits. As an example he'd been awful to me all day, called me a f*cking *** I lost count, would burp in my face and laugh, would ignore me if I tried talking to him, would bend over naked in front of me and fart and thought it was funny. Then he'd expect sex after abusing me and talking to me like trash all day and night, and episodes of silent treatment. The thought of sex with him started to repulse me. Please tell me all men don't do this lol? It's a turn off.
> 
> When you walk through a storm
> Hold your head up high
> ...


Hell no...very good reason he is an EX!


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> No extortion...if wife does not want to make love to me then she does not love me so end of story. I will not remain in a loveless marriage. For one to marry and then deny sex and expect that spouse to remain sexless is believing you can hold the other hostage in a loveless marriage. Not gonna happen. I am one who feels emotional connection through physical intimacy, so I'm not one that can have open marriage. I will have to eject.


100% right if there is no sex just because the other person could not be bothered 
now if that other person or I for some health reason can not but everything other in the union is good then I WOULD BE HAPPY if my wife got herself a sex friend **** buddy bull or what ever and I know she would think the same way if it was her that could not meet my needs


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I wouldn't be anywhere near as happy as I am without my wife and children. I'm assuming you are bitter over something that has happened to you in the past. And women are a sampling tray? Bitter. cynical and sexist all rolled in one post. I think you need to find something that makes you happy.
> 
> What's you advice for young women?


Just because someone is bitter doesn't mean they are wrong. From a risk pov a guy doesn't have much to gain in marriage that he can't get outside of marriage.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

a question is your relationship doomed if your sex drive is not the same , we have a few that say they would kick their partner to the curb if they stopped giving them sex what if it was less often than you like


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> a question is your relationship doomed if your sex drive is not the same , we have a few that say they would kick their partner to the curb if they stopped giving them sex what if it was less often than you like


The LD partner has to compromise to a number that the HD can live with. If the LD was throwing out the sex and then shut it off after the marriage, they deserve to be tossed on their azz.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,


Probably because that is their experience. As for myself I don't say that, since throughout two marriages to date I have always enjoyed a tremendously rich and very frequent sex life.



> many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others


My advice for such men is to start having sex with their wife more often, or pending that seek sex with other people instead.



> some even make jokes like " do you want to F my wife , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open
> to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time ,


If you found her attractive, you should have considered his offer, with her consent of course since she gets to decide who she has sex with.



> we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the guys wife must feel sad and angry that others are giggling about her


Not really, I guess it depends upon the crowds one rolls with.



Livvie said:


> Don't blame it on marriage.
> 
> The sex stops when you are with someone who isn't interested in sex with you. Full stop.
> 
> If someone is interested in a great sex life with you, you'll be having a great sex life, marriage or no marriage.


Yep that's what it boils down to.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

It is my thoughts on the men that joke or otherwise about not getting sex as often as they like that they are not doing their part well , they might be ok in the sack but there is a whole lot of loving that goes on before the bedroom or where ever , 

if you take the amount of mills and boon novels sold and 95% to women readers it will tell you women are more tuned in and ready to be seduced ,

In thinking back to the days of going to night clubs and while most men were waiting to get courage in a glass and lined up at the bar the few with balls had a free run and by the end of the night when the men had found their courage the women had started to go home as the lads moving away from the bar were too drunk 

even today I see men are not stepping up to a woman and sadly women still don't just ask out a man


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> even today I see men are not stepping up to a woman and sadly women still don't just ask out a man


In my experience there are plenty of women who ask men out. Just like when my wife asked me out at work for our first date. Or the myriad of other women who asked me out as well (some of whom I turned down). Then there was my ex-wife, who asked someone else to tell me she wanted me to talk to her, with her first words telling me how beautiful I was.

It happened often enough just about anywhere, night clubs, pubs, parties, work, housemates, courses etc. Plenty of women weren't shy at asking me to have sex with them. Including two women who earnestly asked me to take their virginity when I was a young man.

As to asking women out, that needn't be very difficult either. I always started with a smile, with the rest easily following.

As to those who preferred to sit on the sideline. I always glad they did, since it made it easier for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Not after marriage (we were already together 5 years when we got married - I would have never got married to somebody whom I thought was incompatible). After the first 2 kids things started going downhill. She had mental issues, she hid them from me - at least the extent of them - I didn't deal with the situation with maturity, for my own issues, I guess. So, we detached and our marriage became a mean to raise the children and try and give them a stable family. No way I would have stayed with no kids.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> It is my thoughts on the men that joke or otherwise about not getting sex as often as they like that they are not doing their part well , they might be ok in the sack but there is a whole lot of loving that goes on before the bedroom or where ever ,
> 
> if you take the amount of mills and boon novels sold and 95% to women readers it will tell you women are more tuned in and ready to be seduced ,
> 
> ...


Used to go to the club and shoot pool all night. After i got on the dance floor the pool stick stayed in the closet at home. The girls never let me go back to the table, nor did i want to. Nothing like having 2 of the finest women in the club arguing over whose turn it is. Or being sandwiched between 3 of them getting down to (she's got)"Skillz"


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> No extortion...if wife does not want to make love to me then she does not love me so end of story. I will not remain in a loveless marriage. For one to marry and then deny sex and expect that spouse to remain sexless is believing you can hold the other hostage in a loveless marriage. Not gonna happen. I am one who feels emotional connection through physical intimacy, so I'm not one that can have open marriage. I will have to eject.


I actually agree with you. I just think the way you put it was rather cold, blunt, and one sided, but I get it. No one should have to put up with a sexless marriage, but the way you put is that it is all on your wife. I suppose if she is knowingly withholding sex then it is on her. That is different than not desiring sex or not being able to have sex. I just feel like it is a two way street. I can't expect her to desire me if I don't show her more than animalistic sexual desire. If she is withholding sex as a weapon to get something she wants, then I am fully on board with that being grounds for a divorce. There obviously isn't the love there anymore.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Cynical? Of course, I am! Why wouldn't I be, 50% of marriages end in divorce, 2/3rds of which are initiated by women. Broken homes everywhere. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them until it does. People think they deserve it all and put in minimal effort. People are more absorbed with their Instagram than their spouse.
> 
> Why encourage some young man sign up for that? Why am I targeting men because I can relate to men because I am one, not to mention they are 5x more likely to stick a gun down their throat after it goes south. They are more likely to get walked out on and have their wallet ripped through their assholes with every other weekend visits with their kids in their one bedroom apartments. Until that scenario changes, no ma'am.
> 
> ...


Half empty or half full, it all depends on how you look at it. 50% don't end in divorce. Also, 59% of first marriages do not end in divorce, so you actually have better odds of not getting divorced. What percentage of unmarried couples break up? It is just part of life that not everything works out in your favor, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Do you avoid everything that doesn't have a high chance of success? To me that sounds like a recipe for a static and boring life. I would not be where I'm at in my career if I needed to have a guarantee that I wouldn't fail before going for it. I can tell you that my wife took a big risk in saying yes to me when I proposed given where we were both at in our life at that time. Life is full of risks. 

You say that 2/3rds of divorce are initiated by women. I assume the implication is they are at fault for that. Sadly that may be because more men cheat than women. And stats show that 76% of couples with no cheating in the relationship are still married. 

I think rather than telling young men they shouldn't even bother with considering marriage we should tell them to educate themselves on what a successful marriage requires. Same for young women. There is so little formal education, at least in the US, about how to have a successful relationship, sex, marriage and family. Those topics all seem to be taboo in school. Everyone says that should be taught by parents, but not many actually do that. I've spent the better part of my life being an example for my kids as well as having frank and direct discussions about these topics. I can see the payoff to that in my kids' relationships.

I am not here because I have problems. Quite the opposite. If the only point of view you get in a discussion is negative then I think every outcome will be negative. Why not hear the perspective of someone that has succeeded?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> Just because someone is bitter doesn't mean they are wrong. From a risk pov a guy doesn't have much to gain in marriage that he can't get outside of marriage.


Not really. If a man wants to build a home and a life with a woman, and have children, odds are he's not going to get that outside of marriage. The majority of women want the commitment of marrige before they purchase property with a man and especially before they have kids with him. 

Also, a man who is never going to marry attracts a different kind of woman-- one who also never wants to marry. The kind of personality package that comes with a woman who desires to build a life with one man and might be desirable to men might not come with a woman who dates her whole life and doesn't care about marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I actually agree with you. I just think the way you put it was rather cold, blunt, and one sided, but I get it. No one should have to put up with a sexless marriage, but the way you put is that it is all on your wife. I suppose if she is knowingly withholding sex then it is on her. That is different than not desiring sex or not being able to have sex. I just feel like it is a two way street. I can't expect her to desire me if I don't show her more than animalistic sexual desire. If she is withholding sex as a weapon to get something she wants, then I am fully on board with that being grounds for a divorce. There obviously isn't the love there anymore.


I will always do my part. Injury, etc is justified reason to refrain. I have not initiated before and after 2 days she comes after me, even when she has been passing a kidney stone, because she wants it. Said she was addicted to me and had to have me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don’t get all this, thankfully. I’ve never had a partner “give me sex”. Mine all wanted it just like I did. That’s normal from my experience. Women and men in relationships with no sex, just gtfo. You’re wasting your life with a person that’s not atttacted to you or just doesn’t like sex.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t get all this, thankfully.


If you "don't get it", maybe you shouldn't generalise with sweeping statements like "You’re wasting your life with a person that’s not atttacted to you or just doesn’t like sex. " What do you know about people's life circumstances? People don't have sex for a variety of reasons.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> If you "don't get it", maybe you shouldn't generalise with sweeping statements like "You’re wasting your life with a person that’s not atttacted to you or just doesn’t like sex. " What do you know about people's life circumstances? People don't have sex for a variety of reasons.


Actually, then again, I could just make a generalized statement and expect people to figure out special circumstances aren’t “general”. Lots of stories I read about no sex, there are a 100,000 excuses why their spouse isn’t having sexual with them and they aren’t happy and stay in it because it’s hard to leave. 
sorry you’re not getting sex. I’m sure there’s a good reason.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m sure there’s a good reason.


Yes, my wife thinks she is fat, she has mental issues, she is depressed and anxious and on anti-depressants, she also suffers from empty nest syndrome and she is post-menopausal... her father just died. Enough? Do you want me to leave because we are not having sex?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Not saying that at all and I wasn’t referring to any particular situation to start with. 
That being said, the situation you describe doesn’t sound like one that will change. I get sickness and in health.
As I said, you’re taking my post personal and it wasn’t my intention. However, at what point is the juice not worth the squeeze for you?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Not saying that at all and I wasn’t referring to any particular situation to start with.
> That being said, the situation you describe doesn’t sound like one that will change. I get sickness and in health.
> As I said, you’re taking my post personal and it wasn’t my intention. However, at what point is the juice not worth the squeeze for you?


Yes, I did take it personally, because lots of people assume stuff without really knowing. Apologies. Regarding squeezing the juice  , I'm not planning to be here forever since my wife refuses to do anything about her situation. I'm supporting her right now, but it's not sustainable on the long term. She can function and has a job. Just waiting until she is stable enough.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Not really. If a man wants to build a home and a life with a woman, and have children, odds are he's not going to get that outside of marriage. The majority of women want the commitment of marrige before they purchase property with a man and especially before they have kids with him.
> 
> Also, a man who is never going to marry attracts a different kind of woman-- one who also never wants to marry. The kind of personality package that comes with a woman who desires to build a life with one man and might be desirable to men might not come with a woman who dates her whole life and doesn't care about marriage.


That might be true for you, but with 40% of births in the US happening outside of marriage things are changing. Also you'd be surprised how many mortgage apps used to come across my desk from unmarried couples.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> That might be true for you, but with 40% of births in the US happening outside of marriage things are changing. Also you'd be surprised how many mortgage apps used to come across my desk from unmarried couples.


It's not applicable to me, thanks. My kids are grown and I own my own home already.

Take a look at those 40% of the births happening outside of marriage. I see them daily in my line of work. These are not children born into 2 parent happy intact families in which mom and dad just happen to not be married. The vast majority are kids born to single moms and the dads are not involved.

That's why I said, if a man is looking to build a life and a family that includes kids, that is one situation in life where he's going to find marriage has value. Because---the _majority_ of quality women are going to want to be married to men they build an intact family with.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> That might be true for you, but with 40% of births in the US happening outside of marriage things are changing. Also you'd be surprised how many mortgage apps used to come across my desk from unmarried couples.


The fact that there are lots a single moms is not an argument against marriage, quite the opposite. I doubt many of those are happy committed un-married moms and dads. 

If a couple is cohabitating and get a mortgage together then why not get married? If they break up they are still going to have to deal with the division of property.

None of that sounds like a good reason to recommend not getting married.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> It's not applicable to me, thanks. My kids are grown and I own my own home already.
> 
> Take a look at those 40% of the births happening outside of marriage. I see them daily in my line of work. These are not children born into 2 parent happy intact families in which mom and dad just happen to not be married. The vast majority are kids born to single moms and the dads are not involved.
> 
> That's why I said, if a man is looking to build a life and a family that includes kids, that is one situation in life where he's going to find marriage has value. Because---the _majority_ of quality women are going to want to be married to men they build an intact family with.











Why are increasing numbers of women choosing to be single?


The word ‘spinster’ is still freighted with pity and misogyny, yet the number of women living this way is growing. Emma John says it’s time to reconsider what it means to be ‘never-married’




www.theguardian.com


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> The fact that there are lots a single moms is not an argument against marriage, quite the opposite. I doubt many of those are happy committed un-married moms and dads.
> 
> If a couple is cohabitating and get a mortgage together then why not get married? If they break up they are still going to have to deal with the division of property.
> 
> None of that sounds like a good reason to recommend not getting married.


 some countries now look on a cohabiting couple as though they are in fact married n the eyes of the state as far as I know it is after cohabiting more than 5 years so gives them the same rights as if the got married so if you split you need to go through much the same paper work


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> The fact that there are lots a single moms is not an argument against marriage, quite the opposite. I doubt many of those are happy committed un-married moms and dads.
> 
> If a couple is cohabitating and get a mortgage together then why not get married? If they break up they are still going to have to deal with the division of property.
> 
> None of that sounds like a good reason to recommend not getting married.


My point is marriage is no longer the only way to have kids or live with a woman like it was for our great grandparents.

The family court system itself provides plenty of incentives (for guys) to not get married.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> some countries now look on a cohabiting couple as though they are in fact married n the eyes of the state as far as I know it is after cohabiting more than 5 years so gives them the same rights as if the got married so if you split you need to go through much the same paper work


In California, if you hold a woman's gaze for too long you owe her alimony.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, my wife thinks she is fat, she has mental issues, she is depressed and anxious and on anti-depressants, she also suffers from empty nest syndrome and she is post-menopausal... her father just died. Enough? Do you want me to leave because we are not having sex?


Sorry but yes .... she is a disaster.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> My point is marriage is no longer the only way to have kids or live with a woman like it was for our great grandparents.
> 
> The family court system itself provides plenty of incentives (for guys) to not get married.


Well, that hardly makes sense. Whether you are married or not, in the event of a relationship terminating, custody and child support will still be determined by _the family court_. Same with splitting joint assets. 🙂

The difference would be alimony, and you can get around that one by NOT marrying someone who doesn't work or who makes substantially less than you.

And again, maybe no one wants to acknowledge it, but the majority of _quality women_ are going to want marriage before having a family.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Well, that hardly makes sense. Whether you are married or not, in the event of a relationship terminating, custody and child support will still be determined by _the family court_. Same with splitting joint assets. 🙂
> 
> The difference would be alimony, and you can get around that one by NOT marrying someone who doesn't work or who makes substantially less than you.
> 
> And again, maybe no one wants to acknowledge it, but the majority of _quality women_ are going to want marriage before having a family.


I agree. I don't see how the fact that some people are having kids outside of marriage and people are living together without being married is an argument against marriage. As you said, a breakup is still going to have the same consequences. 

And I agree, most women, probably men too, will want the commitment of marriage before starting a family. I mean, why would someone want a situation where a man says to you, "I want to have babies with you and live together, but I'm not willing to commit to marriage, that is where I draw the line"? It is like you are keeping one foot out the door so you can make a quick exit when you grow tired of the situation.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, my wife thinks she is fat, she has mental issues, she is depressed and anxious and on anti-depressants, she also suffers from empty nest syndrome and she is post-menopausal... her father just died. Enough? Do you want me to leave because we are not having sex?


If she refuses to address the issues and get help, it would then be a direct choice to withhold from you. Post menopausal is no reason. My wife had hystorectomy 12 yrs ago(40) started taking HRT (all 3) and life is better than ever. Mood swings.....gone, lack of energy...gone, sexually intimate....5x a week. She is 52.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I don't make jokes about it but it happened in my situation. When we were dating we had sex almost every day. We did all kinds of stuff and it was awesome.
> 
> Now 6 years later she has no interest and we are down to 2-3x per month and its more of less "hurry up and get it over sex" She says she really isn't interested any more.
> 
> ...


it only gets more expensive the longer you wait… in many states.
If you hit the ten year mark in our area - it goes way up as far as money owed to the non working spouse.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> it sounds cold, it sounds contractual, it sounds caveman , rough and hard ,
> while I agree that sex is important to me and if there is a period of a long time for not understandable reason (health or otherwise) then I would start to look into why and what we need to do and we would need to have a talk about it and my wife thinks the same way ,
> you see I want my wife to be free free to choose to be with me every day not because she has to be not because she put her x on a bit of paper many years ago , I don't ever want my wife to have sex with me I want her to make love to me if she wants sex she can go screw her sex toy ,deep down if she just want sex the type that sounds like fur filling a contract i would gladly tell her to become a hotwife or what ever I make love to my wife sometimes it can be twice in the same day sometimes it can be twice a week and sometimes only once in a month , if it goes over say 6 weeks i would be thinking I or she need to start looking at why , we are in your late 50s so not as young as before and not a much hormones
> 
> ...


It sounds like for you sex isn't a deal-breaker? If so, then that advice doesn't apply. 

Personally, I don't mean any sex, I mean sex with some passion. If my wife were to iffer starfish me twice a week, that would not be sufficient either.

My firm belief is that if you don't like someone enough to have regular, involved sex with someone then you should not be married to them.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> a question is your relationship doomed if your sex drive is not the same , we have a few that say they would kick their partner to the curb if they stopped giving them sex what if it was less often than you like


While there does have to be some compromise, I have to ask why let your sex drive determine your frequency if it's low? There should be an element of having sex to maintain the relationship bond. "I love my spouse, want the marriage to thrive, and want to feel close to him / her, so I'll have regular sex and make it good in every sense".

Spontaneity of sex - the idea that it should just happen naturally when both partners are aroused - is a myth. You need to work at and prioritize your sex life.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Not really. If a man wants to build a home and a life with a woman, and have children, odds are he's not going to get that outside of marriage. The majority of women want the commitment of marrige before they purchase property with a man and especially before they have kids with him.


Absolutely. And it should be that way, as a stable, two-parent household is the best way to have happy, successful children.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DTO said:


> It sounds like for you sex isn't a deal-breaker? If so, then that advice doesn't apply.
> 
> Personally, I don't mean any sex, I mean sex with some passion. If my wife were to iffer starfish me twice a week, that would not be sufficient either.
> 
> My firm belief is that if you don't like someone enough to have regular, involved sex with someone then you should not be married to them.


 I don't have sex with my wife , and because when we make love it is not per planned and documented and timed and can't happen again for a per set time I GUESS that makes it Spontaneous


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> Sorry but yes .... she is a disaster.


I'm not staying here forever. There is a fix, but she refuses to take action. As soon as she is more stable (especially after the death of her father), we will have to talk to finalise the separation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> *If she refuses to address the issues and get help, it would then be a direct choice to withhold from you.* Post menopausal is no reason. My wife had hystorectomy 12 yrs ago(40) started taking HRT (all 3) and life is better than ever. Mood swings.....gone, lack of energy...gone, sexually intimate....5x a week. She is 52.


It's a consequence. She is on heavy anti-depressants (she's been on them for the 15 years) and has no libido whatsoever. She did have sex with me until 3 years ago, when she obviously thought her role of mother and wife was over. She doesn't think straight. Her mind is full of intrusive thoughts, which are exhausting. I understand it, but she could fix all this and her depression by doing appropriate therapy and ultimately being off the ADs. She doesn't want to face her ghosts. She is sitting there in the evening being miserable and getting fat. Nothing I can do about it. I'm concerned, obviously, but it's out of my hands. If this is what she wants, I won't be part of it..


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not staying here forever. There is a fix, but she refuses to take action. As soon as she is more stable (especially after the death of her father), we will have to talk to finalise the separation.


You were hurting and miserable when you showed up at TAM. I think your a decent guy that means well and no harm but I also believe your just fooling yourself and not cutting the cord and getting it done. When you finally go for the kill shot she will just develop some “new condition” that “isn’t her fault”.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> You were hurting and miserable when you showed up at TAM. I think your a decent guy that means well and no harm but I also believe your just fooling yourself and not cutting the cord and getting it done. *When you finally go for the kill shot she will just develop some “new condition” that “isn’t her fault”.*


I can't blame you for thinking that. I would think the same. When I came on TAM I had no idea of the extent of her issues, because she hid them from me. Look, we grew up together, it's not easy to cut the cord, especially when you know your wife is not well. You should read the diary I found. That said, I can't be here forever. I contributed to the state of affairs, but I was in the dark. I grieved enough. If she develops "something else", her sisters will have to take care of her. I will be out ASAP.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I had an uncle that was married to a woman that was on anti-depressants for years and years she was going to the same doctors all the years they just gave her the same type anti-depressants each time and she became more and more distant with everyone , but she fell in the house and was taken to hospital for a long stay there she got a full check out where they found the anti-depressants she was on were not right for her , they changed them and the turn about in her for the last few years of her life was unbelievable sad my uncle and her too put up with a lot of crap for most of their life


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

frenchpaddy said:


> I had an uncle that was married to a woman that was on anti-depressants for years and years she was going to the same doctors all the years they just gave her the same type anti-depressants each time and she became more and more distant with everyone , but she fell in the house and was taken to hospital for a long stay there she got a full check out where they found the anti-depressants she was on were not right for her , they changed them and the turn about in her for the last few years of her life was unbelievable sad my uncle and her too put up with a lot of crap for most of their life


It is what it is. I can only suggest and push in one direction. I did that for the last 15 years and it got me nowhere. Promises, promises, promises. It's her life at the end of the day. It's sad to see her in that state, but I can't do anything to fix it. Leaving her won't change anything for her. She'll carry on like that, with her sisters, who have no partners either, because they've driven them away.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> It is what it is. I can only suggest and push in one direction. I did that for the last 15 years and it got me nowhere. Promises, promises, promises. It's her life at the end of the day. It's sad to see her in that state, but I can't do anything to fix it. Leaving her won't change anything for her. She'll carry on like that, with her sisters, who have no partners either, because they've driven them away.


She kind of sounds like how my ex wife was. Her sisters meant more to her than me. And they were all divorced so they wanted her to be as well. Weird especially after 20 years together.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> She kind of sounds like how my ex wife was. Her sisters meant more to her than me. And they were all divorced so they wanted her to be as well. Weird especially after 20 years together.


Well, my wife and her sisters are the product of their ****ed-up family and upbringing... I can't go into details, but it must have been rather strange growing up like that. I wasn't any better: my father was a violent bully and my mother cold as ice. I think it was fate we would find each other and destroy ourselves by getting married and having children when neither of us was equipped for any of that.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Well, my wife and her sisters are the product of their ****ed-up family and upbringing... I can't go into details, but it must have been rather strange growing up like that. I wasn't any better: my father was a violent bully and my mother cold as ice. I think it was fate we would find each other and destroy ourselves by getting married and having children when neither of us was equipped for any of that.


My exes family was all about money. Each sister bailed out on her hubby and took them for all they could and convinced my ex to do the same. 

But I will say your situation sounds worse with violence and bullying involved. I didn't have that and must say I had a great childhood.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I didn't have that and must say I had a great childhood.


I'm happy to hear that. The funny thing is that I wasn't even aware of the damage that did to me. I always considered myself a "normal" person, until I struggled with my wife.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I'm happy to hear that. The funny thing is that I wasn't even aware of the damage that did to me. I always considered myself a "normal" person, until I struggled with my wife.


I think alot of people don't realize how they had been affected until much later on when they have to deal with other aspects of life.


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## LeslieD125 (Jan 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> why do so many men say once they get married the sex stops ,
> many men make jokes that their wife is not having sex with them as often as they like when they are out with others
> some even make jokes like " do you want to F my wife , I know this offer was made to me once and I don't know what to say , i looked at the wife and hoped the ground would open
> to this is saying these men don't have respect for their wife's and many are joking but not at the same time ,
> we have all been out when some fool comes out with some side of their sexless life as a joke they get a few giggles but the guys wife must feel sad and angry that others are giggling about her


You ask why this happens? Put yourself in her position: She is expecting the same level of romance/interaction as when they were dating, but now the dating has stopped and the marriage has started so there is no reason for the man to continue to "chase" the woman. She feels rejected and then she withdrawals. And it seems that most couples don't even see why this happens. Men: all you have to do is treat your wife with love, courtesy, and respect. Likewise wives: treat your man with love courtesy and respect. I wouldn't want to sleep with a guy who joked about other men. That's just bad form.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

LeslieD125 said:


> You ask why this happens? Put yourself in her position: She is expecting the same level of romance/interaction as when they were dating, but now the dating has stopped and the marriage has started so there is no reason for the man to continue to "chase" the woman. She feels rejected and then she withdrawals. And it seems that most couples don't even see why this happens. Men: all you have to do is treat your wife with love, courtesy, and respect. Likewise wives: treat your man with love courtesy and respect. I wouldn't want to sleep with a guy who joked about other men. That's just bad form.


 i think you could post this on many other topics running here , very well put and thank you


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

LeslieD125 said:


> You ask why this happens? Put yourself in her position: She is expecting the same level of romance/interaction as when they were dating, but now the dating has stopped and the marriage has started so there is no reason for the man to continue to "chase" the woman. She feels rejected and then she withdrawals. And it seems that most couples don't even see why this happens. Men: all you have to do is treat your wife with love, courtesy, and respect. Likewise wives: treat your man with love courtesy and respect. I wouldn't want to sleep with a guy who joked about other men. That's just bad form.


Everything after men, all you have to do is....

Can be a load of crap if one says that works in all cases.

And poor guys that keep waiting and trusting blindly for it to work for them are often hit with reality and recognition that no, W isn't an angel reality, it will never work.

It's important in a good M as long as it's part of the relationship dynamic and not the sole expected remedy to all marriage problems.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeslieD125 said:


> You ask why this happens? Put yourself in her position: She is expecting the same level of romance/interaction as when they were dating, but now the dating has stopped and the marriage has started so there is no reason for the man to continue to "chase" the woman. She feels rejected and then she withdrawals. And it seems that most couples don't even see why this happens. Men: all you have to do is treat your wife with love, courtesy, and respect. Likewise wives: treat your man with love courtesy and respect. I wouldn't want to sleep with a guy who joked about other men. That's just bad form.


When I got married, I had dated my ex for 4 years, begged constantly to marry her. She went to retriever tests with me, Fishing, brushed duck blinds, whatever I was doing she’d do just to be with me.
After marriage, nothing. However, never any problems in the bedroom, and I will admit she was a very giving lover for 18 years; we had sex every night up to the day I was forced to tell her to go.

My point: All this crap about dating your wife and treating them this way or that for them to feel emotionally in the mood for sex a wanting to be loved and all that drivel—— it’s total ********. I’ve seen guys treat their ladies like **** and seemed to constantly be desired sexually by their wives.

A woman that has a healthy libido and a man with the same have good sex after they get married and it was no different before or after in either of my marriages. Never had a woman tell me after the relationship was Over that the sex wasn’t great. And I don’t think I’m anything special either.

It’s not super complicated like people make it out to be. If your spouse isn’t having sex with you, the problem is either they are getting it from someone else, they don’t love you anymore in a romantic way, or they have no sex drive For whatever reason.

I think there are tons of people on here getting gaslit by their spouse about why they’re not getting any sex. Some get told straight up that their wife or husband doesn’t want sex with them. But the denied spouse stays because losing the security of the relationship is too painful compared to the life of no intimacy.

Whether it’s no sex or whatever else, a bad relationship is going to be painful after ending it and that pain can’t be avoided. Rip off the bandage so you don’t waste years of your life being unhappy, vs some pain that’s inevitable due to breaking up.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> When I got married, I had dated my ex for 4 years, begged constantly to marry her. She went to retriever tests with me, Fishing, brushed duck blinds, whatever I was doing she’d do just to be with me.
> After marriage, nothing. However, never any problems in the bedroom, and I will admit she was a very giving lover for 18 years; we had sex every night up to the day I was forced to tell her to go.
> 
> My point: All this crap about dating your wife and treating them this way or that for them to feel emotionally in the mood for sex a wanting to be loved and all that drivel—— it’s total ******. I’ve seen guys treat their ladies like **** and seemed to constantly be desired sexually by their wives.
> ...


Always makes me wonder how many couples actually enjoy a good sex life? I know many here do but it seems there are just as many do not. Especially in other places I read as well.

My point of that is I wonder how many partners the average person has to go through (both men and women) until they find someone who is and then be able to keep it going throughout the marriage? I know its been debated as part of this thread but maybe most people should just stay single and just "play the field" especially when they are older and don't expect to have a family or anything like that?

I guess that brings up the question as well do single people have better sex lives than married?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I guess that brings up the question as well do single people have better sex lives than married?


 good question i think not as the first few times they don't know what each other like , 
as well mostly the men if not the local stud has not had it in a while and shoot his load too early , i am thinking of the topic here two min and its over 
. I get that times have changed and sex is as casual and meaningless as ordering, but if it is still something special to you, do not compromise because of some man's impatience. And yes, I would give the same advice to a man who values himself enough not to just toss it out there like a handshake.

I think single people look for older partners that have more experience , 
now having said all that i am also thinking of couples that get to a stage where sex has become the wham bang band and fall asleep sex and these couples start looking to open relationships 
and often think what if one partner then found someone that was better in bed than their husband or wife , 
reading some of the stories it seems these couples brake up after a few years because jealously gets in the way ,


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Always makes me wonder how many couples actually enjoy a good sex life? I know many here do but it seems there are just as many do not. Especially in other places I read as well.
> 
> My point of that is I wonder how many partners the average person has to go through (both men and women) until they find someone who is and then be able to keep it going throughout the marriage? I know its been debated as part of this thread but maybe most people should just stay single and just "play the field" especially when they are older and don't expect to have a family or anything like that?
> 
> I guess that brings up the question as well do single people have better sex lives than married?


I think there are many people who should not marry. They aren't psychologically suited for committing to one person long term. I have relatives and friends who would have had much happier, lower stress lives single rather than the multiple marriage lives they lived. There is a very long thread on TAM where the couple are very tuned in sexually to one another but are miserable being married. They should have just stayed FWB.

I think singles always need to bring their best game, so yes most singles likely have better sex lives than most married people. But taken as a whole, I also think married life is the more satisfying and fullfilling of the two. Wife and I arent constantly swinging from chandeliers, but we both are thankful for our life together.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> I think there are many people who should not marry. They aren't psychologically suited for committing to one person long term. I have relatives and friends who would have had much happier, lower stress lives single rather than the multiple marriage lives they lived. There is a very long thread on TAM where the couple are very tuned in sexually to one another but are miserable being married. They should have just stayed FWB.
> 
> I think singles always need to bring their best game, so yes most singles likely have better sex lives than most married people. But taken as a whole, I also think married life is the more satisfying and fullfilling of the two. Wife and I arent constantly swinging from chandeliers, but we both are thankful for our life together.


Good input Rus47 Thanks!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I just got together with my future wife too early (22). I guess I was escaping my parents. Moved to another country. I wasn't ready for anything and I struggled throughout the marriage, especially after the kids came. In hindsight, marriage wasn't for me.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I just got together with my future wife too early (22). I guess I was escaping my parents. Moved to another country. I wasn't ready for anything and I struggled throughout the marriage, especially after the kids came. In hindsight, marriage wasn't for me.


I know what you mean. I probably got remarried too soon. 3 years after my 20 year marriage ended in a sudden divorce.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> But taken as a whole, I also think married life is the more satisfying and fullfilling of the two.


Not so sure about that although I have wondered. If I wasn’t married I’d probably be dead or retired by now. There’s also this:









Married couples are happier than everyone else, especially in middle age


A new analysis of more than 286,000 people sheds light on why married people report higher levels of life satisfaction.




www.google.com





Thinking about where I am at over the last year I wondered if I was not with my wife what would I do and I think the answer is I would get into another relationship and probably get married. I’m just wired that way and I don’t think I would be as happy without it even if it was identical in every way except for the legal contract.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> If I wasn’t married I’d probably be dead


Same here... dead by a very powerful red Ducati...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not so sure about that although I have wondered. If I wasn’t married I’d probably be dead or retired by now. There’s also this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe me too as I didn't really like being single. So its the catch 22 of being single and possibly being unhappy or being married and having a poor sex life (at least for me...I know not everyone does).

If my wife would just have sex, this would all be resolved! 

No easy answers apparently.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Same here... dead by a very powerful red Ducati...


Haha for me it would be either alcohol (most likely) or joining the National Guard when they were getting deployed to Iraq.

I really can’t picture myself as single and not in a relationship. I like the companionship and want a lady in my house.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha for me it would be either alcohol (most likely) or joining the National Guard when they were getting deployed to Iraq.
> 
> I really can’t picture myself as single and not in a relationship. I like the companionship and want a lady in my house.


Ah, forgot the alcohol... lol

I can't picture myself being single either. After living almost 40 years with a woman, I've lost my identity... I never lived on my own.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I just got together with my future wife too early (22). I guess I was escaping my parents. Moved to another country. I wasn't ready for anything and I struggled throughout the marriage, especially after the kids came. In hindsight, marriage wasn't for me.


Or, marriage to that particular women, with her significant issues, wouldn't work for much of anyone.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Ah, forgot the alcohol... lol
> 
> I can't picture myself being single either. After living almost 40 years with a woman, I've lost my identity... I never lived on my own.


At risk of TJ I think a time living alone is imperative for both genders. I lived alone for 2 years before marrying. Cooking and cleaning up after myself, doing laundry and ironing my own shirts was attitude adjustment.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Or, marriage to that particular women, with her significant issues, wouldn't work for much of anyone.


I think you might be correct there...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> At risk of TJ I think a time living alone is imperative for both genders. I lived alone for 2 years before marrying. Cooking and cleaning up after myself, doing laundry and ironing my own shirts was attitude adjustment.


I was at uni, doing all that, but I was sharing a flat and a room with my brother.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I guess that brings up the question as well do single people have better sex lives than married?


Some do and some don't.

That said most singles probably don't have a sex life that is as continuously frequent, and as good as mine has always been throughout two marital relationships.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> At risk of TJ I think a time living alone is imperative for both genders. I lived alone for 2 years before marrying. Cooking and cleaning up after myself, doing laundry and ironing my own shirts was attitude adjustment.


I think for me it was less than a year with no roommates before my girlfriend was staying over enough that she had stuff in my closet and bathroom. Took another 6 months of half living together before she moved in all the way. Oddly I don’t remember at all if she paid for anything I don’t think she did, I was so excited to have her there I don’t think it ever came up.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just me: I’ve been single for several years now and get all the sex I want. But I found married life sex was by far the best. We both figured out what one another liked, it didn’t have to be sex to impress, it could just be comfortable sex where we both got off and went to sleep snuggled up.

I don’t like the single life, but now that I’m older, dating is a lot different and it’s supper difficult to find a woman that checks my boxes.
I’m just an average looking guy with an average job. Most women want a better looking, more successful man. I don’t blame them. I want an attractive woman that isn’t entitled and wants to work as a team. 

A quote from a woman I talked to OLD recently:

in response to her request to message her and she will give me her number tomorrow because at the moment she has guests:

Me: Hi. I just finished up front brakes and front and rear wheel bearing hubs on my nephews car after a full day out in the heat tearing down a farm barn..... been a long day.

Her: 
“I keep normal hours. I’m not a night owl. I didn’t answer because I’m not available after 8:00. Yes, you sound very busy. Probably too busy for me. I live to travel and like to be taken out to dinner often and fun occassionally. Not sure we are a match.😊”

yeah, She wants to be taken out to dinner regularly and taken traveling......... no joke, I’d like to be taken to dinner regularly and taken on free trips, too.
Sorry, I am not interested in supplying such things just for the company of a lady. Extra info: This lady wasn’t very attractive anymore but judging by her years old pictures (she dated her pictures by year- which I thought was a good thing), she was a real looker in the past and likely found men who were willing to foot the bill for everything just for her beauty. Good luck to her finding that now. 

Back to the original topic: I think on average, most couples have a good sex life. But there’s probably a good piece of The pie that aren’t. If the sex isn’t there, I suspect it amplifies other problems. Just as a person can overlook a lot of important stuff if the physical is there.

Love is a very strange emotion. The stronger it is, the more ecstatic it makes you—— the same is true of the Amount of pain it causes.
It keeps people in bad relationships, it causes people to enter bad relationships. Death causes the pain eventually even if the relationship is perfect. 

sorry for the ramble. Best to get out of Relationship that doesn’t bring you happiness.
Only one life to live.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

TJW said:


> their husbands become their slaves.


TJW -----

Did you read The Manipulated Man -- Ester Villar. that's the premise of her book.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> At risk of TJ I think a time living alone is imperative for both genders. I lived alone for 2 years before marrying. Cooking and cleaning up after myself, doing laundry and ironing my own shirts was attitude adjustment.


I was cooking from age of 9 and doing my own clothes from time i started driving. Momma did not get the starch heavy enough or tge creases sharp enough. Heck i would send to cleaners with heavy starch and then starch again with heavy Sta-Flo in spray bottle. Put a stif shine that if you spilled a beer on them it just ran off like waterproof canvas. 
The girls at The Party Palace liked the pink Wrangler pearl snap shirt, tight starched Wranglers , Justin Ostritch ropers and black Resistol 20x felt.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think a lot of men are so focused on sex that they hope marriage leads to more sex but that is really not realistic except for the fact that you're both under the same roof. By the time you get married you ought to
have a pretty good idea of frequency of sex already. It's not going to get more frequent or more varied because the best fun and sex is at the beginning of a relationship, what is typically called the honeymoon phase and that just doesn't last forever. 

Other things eventually take priority.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Her:
> “I keep normal hours. I’m not a night owl. I didn’t answer because I’m not available after 8:00. Yes, you sound very busy. Probably too busy for me. I live to travel and like to be taken out to dinner often and fun occassionally. Not sure we are a match.😊”


At least she qualified herself to you in that statement. Looks like talk.. Nothing wrong with travel and going out to dinner, but that has to be earned. The nice thing about going out with a woman like this is that they are used to so many nice-guy betas that is pretty easy to make a good initial impression. Thats all you want to do on the first meetup. Talk to her about travel. But don't act impressed then change the subject. it doesn't matter what they say. its what they do. Fun occasionally - that looks like female code. Maybe worth another shot. The key is to get her out fast for drinks. Just to develop attraction and comfort. Dont want a lot of messaging. that will kill it. Plus she may be better looking than you think.. I've had that happen too. good luck.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think a lot of men are so focused on sex that they hope marriage leads to more sex but that is really not realistic except for the fact that you're both under the same roof. By the time you get married you ought to
> have a pretty good idea of frequency of sex already. It's not going to get more frequent or more varied because the best fun and sex is at the beginning of a relationship, what is typically called the honeymoon phase and that just doesn't last forever.
> 
> Other things eventually take priority.


Its just when it become much less that it becomes a problem.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Maybe me too as I didn't really like being single. So its the catch 22 of being single and possibly being unhappy or being married and having a poor sex life (at least for me...I know not everyone does).
> 
> If my wife would just have sex, this would all be resolved!
> 
> No easy answers apparently.


Just curious as to why you didn't like being single?


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Ah, forgot the alcohol... lol
> 
> I can't picture myself being single either. After living almost 40 years with a woman, I've lost my identity... I never lived on my own.


That makes sense. I got married later (after 40) so I have more time being single. Interesting to hear a pov from the other side.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

manowar said:


> At least she qualified herself to you in that statement. Looks like talk.. Nothing wrong with travel and going out to dinner, but that has to be earned. The nice thing about going out with a woman like this is that they are used to so many nice-guy betas that is pretty easy to make a good initial impression. Thats all you want to do on the first meetup. Talk to her about travel. But don't act impressed then change the subject. it doesn't matter what they say. its what they do. Fun occasionally - that looks like female code. Maybe worth another shot. The key is to get her out fast for drinks. Just to develop attraction and comfort. Dont want a lot of messaging. that will kill it. Plus she may be better looking than you think.. I've had that happen too. good luck.


When I get the entitled vibe right out of the box— I’m over and out.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> When I get the entitled vibe right out of the box— I’m over and out.


I think you dodged a bullet there…


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I think you dodged a bullet there…


I think I’m gonna start a new thread of quotes from OLD profiles. Should be entertaining.

I’ve noticed a lot of ladies with pictures of them giving the middle finger. Do some men like that?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> I think I’m gonna start a new thread of quotes from OLD profiles. Should be entertaining.


That would be fun! From all I have read here recently I’m not even going to attempt it. 😂


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> entitled vibe


Agree. 



Evinrude58 said:


> I think I’m gonna start a new thread of quotes from OLD profiles. Should be entertaining.


that will be entertaining for sure.



Evinrude58 said:


> I’ve noticed a lot of ladies with pictures of them giving the middle finger



OLD can be a real sh+t show. its a just game.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

For me the sex stopped because I stopped being the man I had been and we were both lazy. When I worked on being a better man and we stopped being lazy it came back even after years of neglect.

Even now I am still learning the most successful approaches to seduce my wife after working on it for more than a year and being together almost 25.

We’re not the same people we were then and what she needs is different. I’m still pretty similar in my needs (I think).


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> By the time you get married you ought to have a pretty good idea of frequency of sex already. *It's not going to get more frequent or more varied because the best fun and sex is at the beginning of a relationship, *what is typically called the honeymoon phase and that just doesn't last forever.


That depends upon the people involved.

At 25 years into my shared, high frequency sexual relationship with my wife (22 years married). Our splendid sexual relationship has continued to grow more varied and fun over time. To the point that it is better now than it has ever been, inclusive of having shared a wonderfully luscious time together in our early days and years.

So what you claim is certainly not true for all marriages.


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## Chippy (Jun 26, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> For me the sex stopped because I stopped being the man I had been and we were both lazy. When I worked on being a better man and we stopped being lazy it came back even after years of neglect.
> 
> Even now I am still learning the most successful approaches to seduce my wife after working on it for more than a year and being together almost 25.
> 
> We’re not the same people we were then and what she needs is different. I’m still pretty similar in my needs (I think).


So why do you think you both got lazy? I have that in my 4 year marriage...Ive been fighting lately to keep sex alive


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Chippy said:


> So why do you think you both got lazy? I have that in my 4 year marriage...Ive been fighting lately to keep sex alive


Familiarity maybe, lack of time, prioritizing work over our relationship. If I think back to when we first went out I spent all day scheming on how to win her over and I was on good behavior all the time.

Another key one is becoming selfish with my time. When I share my time better and do what she wants to do it increases our connection inside and outside the bedroom.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Al_Bundy said:


> Just curious as to why you didn't like being single?


I like having someone to do things with like travel, go out to eat, etc.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Personal said:


> That depends upon the people involved.
> 
> At 25 years into my shared, high frequency sexual relationship with my wife (22 years married). Our splendid sexual relationship has continued to grow more varied and fun over time. To the point that it is better now than it has ever been, inclusive of having shared a wonderfully luscious time together in our early days and years.
> 
> So what you claim is certainly not true for all marriages.


Nothing anybody says is true for everything and I think most people understand that. But just for the record so I don't have to repeat it every time I write something, there are exceptions to everything, which is common sense.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Personal said:


> That depends upon the people involved.
> 
> At 25 years into my shared, high frequency sexual relationship with my wife (22 years married). Our splendid sexual relationship has continued to grow more varied and fun over time. To the point that it is better now than it has ever been, inclusive of having shared a wonderfully luscious time together in our early days and years.
> 
> So what you claim is certainly not true for all marriages.


You really pee in her mouth, though? Set the scene. What.. do ya just say “Open wide, I just drank a 32 oz Gatorade!” and she giggles all excited and says “I sure hope it was the Glacier Freeze kind! Mmmmmmmmmmm 🤤” Or how?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think a lot of men are so focused on sex that they hope marriage leads to more sex but that is really not realistic except for the fact that you're both under the same roof. By the time you get married you ought to
> have a pretty good idea of frequency of sex already. It's not going to get more frequent or more varied because the best fun and sex is at the beginning of a relationship, what is typically called the honeymoon phase and that just doesn't last forever.
> 
> Other things eventually take priority.


Or many many years after the honeymoon the kids are older and out the house. All the give a darn what people would think, social pressure, self image issue, modesty, and embarrassment has long left the building and you become the naughty couple that would make your friends blush if they only knew even half the truth. 😉


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

C.C. says ... said:


> You really pee in her mouth, though? Set the scene. What.. do ya just say “Open wide, I just drank a 32 oz Gatorade!” and she giggles all excited and says “I sure hope it was the Glacier Freeze kind! Mmmmmmmmmmm 🤤” Or how?


After the third Bloody Mary it’s a little more tasty if they were the extra spicy ones with the pickled green beans.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

C.C. says ... said:


> You really pee in her mouth, though? Set the scene. What.. do ya just say “Open wide, I just drank a 32 oz Gatorade!” and she giggles all excited and says “I sure hope it was the Glacier Freeze kind! Mmmmmmmmmmm 🤤” Or how?


Yes sometimes (we don't do this all of the time), or over the hair on her head, down her face, on her breasts, on her vulva etc and sometimes all of that in one session. Although that's after I drink a ton of water (and don't eat certain things) so that in her words it tastes like warm water. Not that she drinks it, letting it flow out of her mouth instead (which I also prefer for the visual of it).

As to what I say, I just say what I would like to do. So I say "I want to piss on you" or "I want to piss in your mouth", and yes I will also say "open your mouth" plus "put it in your mouth" etc. And she mostly just does it or says "okay" and does it, alternatively she will ask me "what do you want me to do?" That said there have been some instances when she has said "she doesn't feel like it", which is fine by me, since what she chooses to do is entirely up to her.

We mostly do it as play before we have penetrative sex,a close second being a way to "wash" my ejaculate from her mouth, off her face and breasts afterwards. Much more rarely it may be part of our play in the middle of sex, which we've only done outdoors because of the mess.

As to where we play it's mostly an ensuite activity or in our main bathroom, hotel bathrooms, bushland, beaches, mountains etc as long as no one else is around.

We've even shared some sanitised pictures of doing that on a fetish website, with nothing above her lips being shown.

My wife will also sometimes pee for me while outdoors (standing up, squatting or bent over), so I can film her stream and less often in a bathroom so I can capture the same. She also doesn't pee on me, since doing that isn't her thing (which is fine by me).

That said my first experience of doing such things was when my ex-wife introduced it to me. Of which in my experience most of the women that I have been with, have been enthusiastically up for doing a lot more more than just vanilla sex stuff.

As an activity it's also more of a spring and summer activity for us, versus an autumn and winter one. The nice thing about summer is, when out at a beach I can piss in her mouth and on her and before we get too far she's already dry.

And yes she sometimes laughs, because it's sometimes funny.

Anyway I hope that answers your questions.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Personal said:


> That depends upon the people involved.
> 
> At 25 years into my shared, high frequency sexual relationship with my wife (22 years married). Our splendid sexual relationship has continued to grow more varied and fun over time. To the point that it is better now than it has ever been, inclusive of having shared a wonderfully luscious time together in our early days and years.
> 
> So what you claim is certainly not true for all marriages.


Same goes for my marriage of 24 yrs.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Familiarity maybe, lack of time, prioritizing work over our relationship. If I think back to when we first went out I spent all day scheming on how to win her over and I was on good behavior all the time.
> 
> Another key one is becoming selfish with my time. When I share my time better and do what she wants to do it increases our connection inside and outside the bedroom.


What helped considerably for me was getting rid of the "Nice Guy" and becoming the man of the house and leader of the family. Make a decision and stand by it. No longer having an opinion and deferring everything to my wife. "I dont care babe, what ever you want to do" To her it made her feel like i was another child following her and not leading her. Read NMMNG and MMSLP and broke the cycle that was learned from watching my parents.


----------



## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Personal said:


> Yes sometimes (we don't do this all of the time), or over the hair on her head, down her face, on her breasts, on her vulva etc and sometimes all of that in one session. Although that's after I drink a ton of water (and don't eat certain things) so that in her words it tastes like warm water. Not that she drinks it, letting it flow out of her mouth instead (which I also prefer for the visual of it).
> 
> As to what I say, I just say what I would like to do. So I say "I want to piss on you" or "I want to piss in your mouth", and yes I will also say "open your mouth" plus "put it in your mouth" etc. And she mostly just does it or says "okay" and does it, alternatively she will ask me "what do you want me to do?" That said there have been some instances when she has said "she doesn't feel like it", which is fine by me, since what she chooses to do is entirely up to her.
> 
> ...



Any which way I word my silly, curious, probing questions, you’ve always answered in a matter of fact, detailed, educational way. I appreciate this about you. 👍


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Or many many years after the honeymoon the kids are older and out the house. All the give a darn what people would think, social pressure, self image issue, modesty, and embarrassment has long left the building and you become the naughty couple that would make your friends blush if they only knew even half the truth. 😉


Sometimes that can happen for a while when the woman is in certain hormonal phases. Some women have a peak of sexual interest in their 40s that can be very intense.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So would you really bail if she started saying No? Especially knowing it could cost you a ton of money and assets? And maybe seeing your kids? Have you told her that directly?
> 
> I am at that point now thats why I ask. 20 years ago I would have already jumped ship but now that its my only option and I am older, I am having to weigh things carefully.


I am in my 40s with kids and I would not tolerate a sexless marriage. Sexual intimacy is a core foundational pillar of marriage.

If my wife shut down sex I’d recognize it as a symptom of deeper issues in the marriage.
I’d try try to fix it - but if unsuccessful I would absolutely bail. It would suck, and be a financial hit but the alternative is worse.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, my wife thinks she is fat, she has mental issues, she is depressed and anxious and on anti-depressants, she also suffers from empty nest syndrome and she is post-menopausal... her father just died. Enough? Do you want me to leave because we are not having sex?


Ok. Keep defensively rationalizing and and making excuses for your situation. Be a victim of your circumstances rather than taking ownership of your situation and affecting the things are within your control. 
It’s a good way to make sure nothing will change or improve. But at least you’ll get to passively complain. It’s a lot easier than taking responsibility for improving yourself and your situation.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> I am in my 40s with kids and I would not tolerate a sexless marriage. Sexual intimacy is a core foundational pillar of marriage.
> 
> If my wife shut down sex I’d recognize it as a symptom of deeper issues in the marriage.
> I’d try try to fix it - but if unsuccessful I would absolutely bail. It would suck, and be a financial hit but the alternative is worse.


true but I would not want to have sex if she did not feel she willing and wanting it , 
unless she was able pull off a good act like you see in porn or film about a prostate 
problem at that stage knowing if she is acting or duty calls 
then we can get into what is sex and what is called sex , after all most plople can't even bring them self to say they have sex 

they say things like did you sleep with that woman , 
IF IT WAS ONLY SLEEPING THEY WERE DOING IT WOULD BE FINE. LOL
we have the 2 min topic and if a woman can be happy with that I am not going to take away from that , 
but if a woman has not gotten off after 20 min then it is UP TO HER as I think in just the same way that men that shoot off to fast are responsible 
and need to find ways to deal with that 
but then we are also told oh SO MANY WOMEN can't and need some other type stimulation and i am ok with this if both know and work around it 
but if the woman does not talk and acts like all is good , i think it is only a matter of time that woman will be not be wanting sex ,


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> At risk of TJ I think a time living alone is imperative for both genders. I lived alone for 2 years before marrying. Cooking and cleaning up after myself, doing laundry and ironing my own shirts was attitude adjustment.


This is one of the most important things to do!

One must come from living Independently, living alone, and for a while, before being best partner material.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> I am in my 40s with kids and I would not tolerate a sexless marriage. *Sexual intimacy is a core foundational pillar of marriage.
> 
> If my wife shut down sex I’d recognize it as a symptom of deeper issues in the marriage.*
> I’d try try to fix it - but if unsuccessful I would absolutely bail. It would suck, and be a financial hit but the alternative is worse.


I am nearly twice your age, but still feel what is in bold is exactly right. And if it leaves, there are major deep issues. I always said wouldn't tolerate that.

However, I appreciate the spot a lot of men like Florida1 are in. There is a high exit cost in dollars and relationship with kids. There are several threads on TAM from men who remained with cheating spouses because of these factors. Not being in their shoes, it is impossible for me to say they are making a mistake by staying in a sexless marriage. .


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> Ok. Keep defensively rationalizing and and making excuses for your situation. Be a victim of your circumstances rather than taking ownership of your situation and affecting the things are within your control.
> It’s a good way to make sure nothing will change or improve. But at least you’ll get to passively complain. It’s a lot easier than taking responsibility for improving yourself and your situation.


There is nothing to improve. I'm leaving. Just not right now. And I'm not complaining. I'm past complaining. I'm just making sure my wife doesn't do anything silly.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

double post


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> I am nearly twice your age, but still feel what is in bold is exactly right. And if it leaves, there are major deep issues. I always said wouldn't tolerate that.
> 
> However, I appreciate the spot a lot of men like Florida1 are in. There is a high exit cost in dollars and relationship with kids. There are several threads on TAM from men who remained with cheating spouses because of these factors. Not being in their shoes, it is impossible for me to say they are making a mistake by staying in a sexless marriage. .


The high exit cost is what is keeping me around. I want to leave but the idea of never being able to retire and working well into my 70s then is very disheartening. I have saved up just enough to retire in a few years but if I have to give away half, it would cut me seriously.

Yet, the lack of a normal sex life cuts just as bad.

Pretty s****y situation to be in.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> I am nearly twice your age, but still feel what is in bold is exactly right. And if it leaves, there are major deep issues. I always said wouldn't tolerate that.
> 
> However, I appreciate the spot a lot of men like Florida1 are in. There is a high exit cost in dollars and relationship with kids. There are several threads on TAM from men who remained with cheating spouses because of these factors. Not being in their shoes, it is impossible for me to say they are making a mistake by staying in a sexless marriage. .


You are almost 80? 😳


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> The high exit cost is what is keeping me around. I want to leave but the idea of never being able to retire and working well into my 70s then is very disheartening. I have saved up just enough to retire in a few years but if I have to give away half, it would cut me seriously.
> 
> Yet, the lack of a normal sex life cuts just as bad.
> 
> Pretty s****y situation to be in.


If it’s mainly a financial thing can you outsource it?

Definitely not for everyone, I considered it and it was a no for me.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> If it’s mainly a financial thing can you outsource it?
> 
> Definitely not for everyone, I considered it and it was a no for me.


Not sure what you mean by outsourcing CC? You mean my retirement?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not sure what you mean by outsourcing CC? You mean my retirement?


I think he means the "sex"...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not sure what you mean by outsourcing CC? You mean my retirement?





In Absentia said:


> I think he means the "sex"...


Yeah the sex. Like if your wife is basically a hard pass and shuts it down but also neither of you wants a divorce then maybe she doesn’t care if you get it somewhere else?

I decided this type of arrangement wouldn’t work for me, would rather just bail and then start again.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah the sex. Like if your wife is basically a hard pass and shuts it down but also neither of you wants a divorce then maybe she doesn’t care if you get it somewhere else?
> 
> I decided this type of arrangement wouldn’t work for me, would rather just bail and then start again.


My wife suggested it to me. And I said no too. Pretty sure she was saying that to get me off her back. But also showed me she was really serious about terminating our sex life. Fair enough. I got the hint...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> My wife suggested it to me. And I said no too. Pretty sure she was saying that to get me off her back. But also showed me she was really serious about terminating our sex life. Fair enough. I got the hint...


Yeah I kind of figured the same. A yes to that is a no straight up, but maybe it works for some people.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

All this outsourcing talk. Huh.

My W would light me on fire while I slept.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I think he means the "sex"...


Gotcthya! I am kinda slow today...its Monday


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> You are almost 80? 😳


74


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> 74


My great grandfather buried three wives, fathered last child at age 94 with his last wife who was 30 then. Died working in field at 105. Genetics.
End TJ;


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> My great grandfather buried three wives, fathered last child at age 94 with his last wife who was 30 then. Died working in field at 105. Genetics.
> End TJ;


You are blessed!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> My wife suggested it to me. And I said no too. Pretty sure she was saying that to get me off her back. But also showed me she was really serious about terminating our sex life. Fair enough. I got the hint...


So your wife suggested it and you didn’t take her up on it? For your wife to suggest that tells me she has absolutely zero feelings for you. You should have definitely outsourced it. And your emotions too. You’ve let your wife neuter you physically, emotionally, and probably financially, too.

I’m single. There’s a lot to be said for being single and doing what you want, when you want. As Blondilocks said, there’s no line of men that will want your wife with her problems. She may be attractive, but that meanS almost nothing when it comes down to actually having a long term relationship. Lots of pump and dump maybe. I’ve only had one woman that was extraordinarily attractive that I wanted more dates with but didn’t get. I suspect she was a nympho and never wanted an actual relationship. The other super hot ones were total duds and I stopped talking to them after a handful of dates.
I’ll bet your kids wouldn’t meet any men at all.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> So your wife suggested it and you didn’t take her up on it? For your wife to suggest that tells me she has absolutely zero feelings for you. You should have definitely outsourced it. And your emotions too. You’ve let your wife neuter you physically, emotionally, and probably financially, too.
> 
> I’m single. There’s a lot to be said for being single and doing what you want, when you want. * As Blondilocks said*, there’s no line of men that will want your wife with her problems. She may be attractive, but that meanS almost nothing when it comes down to actually having a long term relationship. Lots of pump and dump maybe. I’ve only had one woman that was extraordinarily attractive that I wanted more dates with but didn’t get. I suspect she was a nympho and never wanted an actual relationship. The other super hot ones were total duds and I stopped talking to them after a handful of dates.
> I’ll bet your kids wouldn’t meet any men at all.


It was Livvie that said that...  look, I tried everything in my marriage. Being nice, being nasty, being absent, being drunk. I stopped at having an affair. Nothing worked because my wife is a nutcase and I didn't know how bad she was. She hid it from me and then she says we are 50/50 to blame. Sure, my behaviour wasn't exactly great, but she tends to forget why. She is a mentally ill person who, like my brother, expected me to read her mind. I read a few pages she wrote lately and that I found easily... I think she left them out on purpose. It's chilling, scary stuff. I know she has zero feeling for me and she blames me because she hates feeling guilty. It's fine. I worked it out now. Unfortunately, I've been on TAM for years complaining and been considered a weak doormat when in reality I was dealing with a mad person. She'll never find another man and I don't think she wants to. Anyway, she is a mystery to me and I will never know what's going on in her head. She doesn't talk to me. The case is closed. I'm trying to bury but it's not easy after almost 40 years together. I still care about her, so it hurts to see her in that state. But at least everything is clear now.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> It was Livvie that said that...  look, I tried everything in my marriage. Being nice, being nasty, being absent, being drunk. I stopped at having an affair. Nothing worked because my wife is a nutcase and I didn't know how bad she was. She hid it from me and then she says we are 50/50 to blame. Sure, my behaviour wasn't exactly great, but she tends to forget why. She is a mentally ill person who, like my brother, expected me to read her mind. I read a few pages she wrote lately and that I found easily... I think she left them out on purpose. It's chilling, scary stuff. I know she has zero feeling for me and she blames me because she hates feeling guilty. It's fine. I worked it out now. Unfortunately, I've been on TAM for years complaining and been considered a weak doormat when in reality I was dealing with a mad person. She'll never find another man and I don't think she wants to. Anyway, she is a mystery to me and I will never know what's going on in her head. She doesn't talk to me. The case is closed. I'm trying to bury but it's not easy after almost 40 years together. I still care about her, so it hurts to see her in that state. But at least everything is clear now.


But your fear is having another man raise your kids. You’ve been married 40 years? Your kids must be adults now. What’s your game plan?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> But your fear is having another man raise your kids. You’ve been married 40 years? Your kids must be adults now. What’s your game plan?


My fear *was *having another man raising my kids. I'm almost 60 now, the kids are all grown up, so no problem there. My game plan? I don't have one. When finally I will be able to go back to my native country, I will spend a lot of time there. I don't plan to have another relationship. I have done that and it almost killed me. My wife? She has her sisters. I don't believe for one single minute that she expects me to be there forever. She knows that she's given that up once she stopped being my wife.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It was Livvie that said that...  look, I tried everything in my marriage. Being nice, being nasty, being absent, being drunk. I stopped at having an affair. Nothing worked because my wife is a nutcase and I didn't know how bad she was. She hid it from me and then she says we are 50/50 to blame. Sure, my behaviour wasn't exactly great, but she tends to forget why. She is a mentally ill person who, like my brother, expected me to read her mind. I read a few pages she wrote lately and that I found easily... I think she left them out on purpose. It's chilling, scary stuff. I know she has zero feeling for me and she blames me because she hates feeling guilty. It's fine. I worked it out now. Unfortunately, I've been on TAM for years complaining and been considered a weak doormat when in reality I was dealing with a mad person. She'll never find another man and I don't think she wants to. Anyway, she is a mystery to me and I will never know what's going on in her head. She doesn't talk to me. The case is closed. I'm trying to bury but it's not easy after almost 40 years together. I still care about her, so it hurts to see her in that state. But at least everything is clear now.


I had a nut that I almost married and loved dearly And never could figure out. Wondered why I couldn’t make things right with her. It was like working a million pieces jigsaw puzzle and not finding the last few pieces. My mind still likes to go bang on that problem and try to figure it out. I finally gave up and just put it in the past. But it’s hard. I get it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> My fear *was *having another man raising my kids. I'm almost 60 now, the kids are all grown up, so no problem there. My game plan? I don't have one. When finally I will be able to go back to my native country, I will spend a lot of time there. I don't plan to have another relationship. I have done that and it almost killed me. My wife? She has her sisters. I don't believe for one single minute that she expects me to be there forever. She knows that she's given that up once she stopped being my wife.


Damn. That’s rough thinking. You’re 60, not dead. Get the hell out and live your life.
You’d be surprised at what beautiful women will want to jump at you. And letting go of that disappointment might be easier with a fun lady to hang out with.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I had a nut that I almost married and loved dearly And never could figure out. Wondered why I couldn’t make things right with her. It was like working a million pieces jigsaw puzzle and not finding the last few pieces. My mind still likes to go bang on that problem and try to figure it out. I finally gave up and just put it in the past. But it’s hard. I get it.


I spent 20 years of my life trying to find that missing piece. I finally found it. Too late.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Damn. That’s rough thinking. You’re 60, not dead. Get the hell out and live your life.
> You’d be surprised at what beautiful women will want to jump at you. And letting go of that disappointment might be easier with a fun lady to hang out with.


58 to be exact... so, not dead, no...  I'm so disappointed, bitter and angry right now that I don't want to see anybody, apart from my kids. FIL funeral end of week... that'll be fun.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> My fear *was *having another man raising my kids. I'm almost 60 now, the kids are all grown up, so no problem there. My game plan? I don't have one. When finally I will be able to go back to my native country, I will spend a lot of time there. I don't plan to have another relationship. I have done that and it almost killed me. My wife? She has her sisters. I don't believe for one single minute that she expects me to be there forever. She knows that she's given that up once she stopped being my wife.


So, no divorce -- just completely separate lives?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> So, no divorce -- just completely separate lives?


I haven't thought about it. We'll go separate ways and see what happens.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I haven't thought about it. We'll go separate ways and see what happens.


You haven’t thought about divorce??


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I haven't thought about it. We'll go separate ways and see what happens.


Translation: he's going to keep supporting her financially because he wants to.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I haven't thought about it. We'll go separate ways and see what happens.


I think I heard a podcast or something that covered this it went something like:



> Someday, love will find you
> Break those chains that bind you
> One night will remind you
> How we touched and went our separate ways


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think I heard a podcast or something that covered this it went something like:


Its all part of the journey.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its all part of the journey.


But isn’t the premise of a journey to reach a destination?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> But isn’t the premise of a journey to reach a destination?


Not really it could be a wheel in the sky that keeps on turning, where you don’t know where you’ll be tomorrow!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> But isn’t the premise of a journey to reach a destination?


Not when its just Journey like cc posted


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not really it could be a wheel in the sky that keeps on turning, where you don’t know where you’ll be tomorrow!


Or it could be the Next Evolution Escape or Eclipse?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Translation: he's going to keep supporting her financially because he wants to.


she doesn't need supporting financially... she's got a good job. Doesn't need my money. Read my endless threads and get your facts straight... 🙂


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> she doesn't need supporting financially... she's got a good job. Doesn't need my money. Read my endless threads and get your facts straight... 🙂


From what I've read my man, I believe @Livvie has got you pegged.

I don't think you'll be able to help yourself. You'll still fund some of her life if not still be her caretaker.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> From what I've read my man, I believe @Livvie has got you pegged.
> 
> I don't think you'll be able to help yourself. You'll still fund some of her life if not still be her caretaker.


not when she doesn't have sex with me... 😁


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CountryMike said:


> From what I've read my man, I believe @Livvie has got you pegged.


Ooooo, bad choice of words in a sex forum.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> You haven’t thought about divorce??


no... trying to think of a good way to divorce a nutcase. Not found a good one yet. Suggestions?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> no... trying to think of a good way to divorce a nutcase. Not found a good one yet. Suggestions?


There’s no good way to divorce. Even nut jobs get divorced. Divorce knows no race, creed, color or religion. Maybe trying to find a “good way” is your excuse for staying?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> There’s no good way to divorce. Even nut jobs get divorced. Divorce knows no race, creed, color or religion. Maybe trying to find a “good way” is your excuse for staying?


A totally sexless marriage is my deal breaker. I'm not staying.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> A totally sexless marriage is my deal breaker. I'm not staying.


Dude, you’ve stayed for over a decade, the kids are grown and you’re still there.

you are so beset in your ways of martyrdom that you say you are bitter, angry, etc.

trying to help you here. Just divorce her and move on. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Dude, you’ve stayed for over a decade, the kids are grown and you’re still there.
> 
> you are so beset in your ways of martyrdom that you say you are bitter, angry, etc.
> 
> trying to help you here. Just divorce her and move on. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.


We were still having sex, that's why I didn't leave. Things seemed a lot better, then she dropped the bomb. I haven't been well with a skin condition and there's been Covid. We are not together. Not even in the same house. I'm doing my own thing. When the time is ready, I guess we'll sell up. I do not intend to have another relationship or dating, so it doesn't matter to me. I want to travel and enjoy my life until I can. I'm still bitter and angry, yes. It will take ages to get over all this. When I'll start travelling and have a different life, in a different place, it will be easier.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Audition sex stops for sure and replaced by maintenance and/or procreating sex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## think positive (Jun 24, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> Seriously, I think lot of folks of both genders tend to become "domesticated" for want of better word once the wedding vows are finished. Dating pressure is off and they relax, revert to whatever their real norm was. I had a friend once whose honeymoon of all times was a sexless one after he married woman he claimed was hottest chick he had ever been around, who love bombed him continuously during the courtship. Enthusiatically did everything with/for him you could think of. One of the two of them changed after the rice was thrown.
> 
> And of course there is "false advertising" in some cases, where goal was to lock down a meal ticket with marriage. They know the cost of leaving is so high for the one they duped they can safely just take sex off of the table *with the duped on*e ( who they were never really into anyway ).
> 
> When I read a post where a married woman tells her husband she doesn't want sex anymore, always think this is maximum BS. Healthy people of both genders are enthusiastic about intimacy. That's how we ended up with 8 billion humans on the planet. She just doesn't care to participate with HIM, for a variety of possible reasons.


Russ, I used to think this too. Then my wife made friends with a women who said to her she was going on vacation and that " crap, I guess I am going to have to have sex with my husband' she said she did't like sex (so casually like saying she didn't like pizza). She turned out to be a selfish women who's kids even called her out on being selfish. 

I get that some men may stop the romancing. I think some men are become too beta and women are no longer attracted. This guy takes her on expensive vacations buys her stuff, takes her on dates, great dad... 

They are divorced and she is has opportunity for sex with men but, no interest....


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm in that exact situation from day one of our marriage sex is dead. 3 years later with no change no matter what I've tried the few times we have had sex she goes through the motions no passion, no love, I can just feel it that she just wants to get it over with as quickly as possible.
complete flip of a switch compared to before marriage what a huge mistake on my part. now after 3 years of wondering why and trying everything under the sun I have lost all interest in even trying anymore.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

downfall69 said:


> I'm in that exact situation from day one of our marriage sex is dead. 3 years later with no change no matter what I've tried the few times we have had sex she goes through the motions no passion, no love, I can just feel it that she just wants to get it over with as quickly as possible.
> complete flip of a switch compared to before marriage what a huge mistake on my part. now after 3 years of wondering why and trying everything under the sun I have lost all interest in even trying anymore.


Yet you’re still with her? Dude....
THIS is how you want to live your life????
I assure you lots of women like sex and give their husbands all they can stand. Stop stalling and get out.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i think a big part of this problem is people not been honest , 
They are not honest to themselves and to the other person ,
the real reason they got together has nothing to do with loving the other person 
they might love part of the person and even look up to them for some things but 
the fact of getting together is based more on what seem a good step up at the time 

like when I was young fellows were told look for a teacher or nurse because these were looked on as been good jobs at the time 
girls were told the same, when you think of it nothing had changed from the days kings had to find them self a queen where two empires matched to make the family business stronger, but no one was saying to look for a person you can trust a person you have same interests ,
because you have to live and share a life together , yes it makes things better if you don't have to worries about finance or the king next door taking your kingdom 
but what about the guy next door or the guy working with your queen taking her because they had more in common , 

ok people do grow apart and become different but mostly it is down to people trying to make a square brick fit a round hole , 
some people think the only thing is the life partner is the one best in bed , 
some think the best at making money 
many men if she looks hot 
if you don't be honest to your self and know what you need how will it work 
it is just like when you take a car for a test drive , if you have sold your self on the looks of the car and ignore the engine is not running smoothly
and you talk your self into buying it , is it your wrong or the seller ????? 

some good sites to visit
How To Choose A Life Partner: 11 Factors To Consider








10 Tips to Help You Pick a Good Partner


Tips for making good choices about dating, relating and mating.




www.psychologytoday.com


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## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

There could be a lot of reasons for a woman’s interest in sex dropping off.
Let’s assume the woman is not just some sociopath looking to trick a poor sap into marriage for a free place to live (which is no better than a hooker):

1. Is the husband still tearing her like he did before marriage? It always surprises how many men don’t correlate their treatment of a woman with her desire for sex - lol.

2. Has the couple realized after marriage that they disagree on some major issues? Constant arguing can reduce a woman’s sex drive. Always best to explore major topics prior to marriage.

3. Is the woman experiencing hormone issues? Birth control, perimenopause, child birth, and many other situations can alter a woman’s hormone balance and lower her sex drive.

4. Is the man making an attempt to stay attractive? Getting too fat, not showering, poor hygiene in general, etc, are all turn offs for most women. Nobody wants a perpetual vaginal infection from a dirty partner.

5. What else has changed? Expecting the same amount of sex in marriage as was had in dating would require the same exact words, actions, and environment as when dating. I mean, this is just common sense.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

MEA said:


> There could be a lot of reasons for a woman’s interest in sex dropping off.
> Let’s assume the woman is not just some sociopath looking to trick a poor sap into marriage for a free place to live (which is no better than a hooker):
> 
> 1. Is the husband still tearing her like he did before marriage? It always surprises how many men don’t correlate their treatment of a woman with her desire for sex - lol.


 good point , some times once the rind is on her finger it is like ( I don't have to make the effort any more ) so this comes back to been honest in the relationship to your self and the other 



MEA said:


> 2. Has the couple realized after marriage that they disagree on some major issues? Constant arguing can reduce a woman’s sex drive. Always best to explore major topics prior to marriage.


this would be the same for both not just the woman , why living together before might be a good thing " honest test drive with eyes open "


MEA said:


> 3. Is the woman experiencing hormone issues? Birth control, perimenopause, child birth, and many other situations can alter a woman’s hormone balance and lower her sex drive.


 a friend I have got his wife to stop all birth control and they used condoms he did not like the side effects and put her health first , they are still together after about 20 years 


MEA said:


> 4. Is the man making an attempt to stay attractive? Getting too fat, not showering, poor hygiene in general, etc, are all turn offs for most women. Nobody wants a perpetual vaginal infection from a dirty partner.


 very true ,


MEA said:


> 5. What else has changed? Expecting the same amount of sex in marriage as was had in dating would require the same exact words, actions, and environment as when dating. I mean, this is just common sense.


in a way there should be more like beer on tap , no going to the bar for it lol
when dating you normally not together every night and you have to add in the time traveling , 
and if every date has to end up with sex then the woman would be right in thinking she was just been used for sex


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

downfall69 said:


> I'm in that exact situation from day one of our marriage sex is dead. 3 years later with no change no matter what I've tried the few times we have had sex she goes through the motions no passion, no love, I can just feel it that she just wants to get it over with as quickly as possible.
> complete flip of a switch compared to before marriage what a huge mistake on my part. now after 3 years of wondering why and trying everything under the sun I have lost all interest in even trying anymore.


Simple fix....file


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

downfall69 said:


> I'm in that exact situation from day one of our marriage sex is dead. 3 years later with no change no matter what I've tried the few times we have had sex she goes through the motions no passion, no love, I can just feel it that she just wants to get it over with as quickly as possible.
> complete flip of a switch compared to before marriage what a huge mistake on my part. now after 3 years of wondering why and trying everything under the sun I have lost all interest in even trying anymore.


I believe we often get more of what we tolerate from another person. If we accept disrespect or abuse, there are plenty of sadistic people in this world who enjoy giving us more of the same. Why would you put up with this for 3 WEEKS, let alone 3 years? There are plenty of threads on this forum near duplicate, some for decades (?!) 

How could you "lose interest"?. I think you are just saying this to feel less bad about surrendering yourself to your "wife" abusing you in this way. You know that there are plenty of females who would happily take her place. Heck there are plenty of women experiencing with their "husbands" what you are with your "wife". It is too bad someone doesn't invent an AP to pair up all of the people who don't want intimacy with one another.

I don't know what happened after your wedding that flipped the switch, but it doesn't matter because after 3 years it ain't going back. Too much water under the bridge. You only have one life and it is a shame to waste it year by year living with a room mate and calling it a marriage.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> My fear *was *having another man raising my kids. I'm almost 60 now, the kids are all grown up, so no problem there. My game plan? I don't have one. When finally I will be able to go back to my native country, I will spend a lot of time there. I don't plan to have another relationship. I have done that and it almost killed me. My wife? She has her sisters. I don't believe for one single minute that she expects me to be there forever. She knows that she's given that up once she stopped being my wife.


I’m considerably younger but I relate to that. I absolutely don’t want another man raising my child. I don’t want someone else’s influence on my child. My wife made very questionable dating decisions in the year before we met. So I don’t have confidence in her ability to not get ran thru by a bunch of loser guys again if single. I’m not going to let my child be subjected to that. So despite the marital issues we’ve been having idk if I would leave. I don’t consider my child a mistake at all and he’s an incredible and beautiful child. But I understand that I put myself in this position and that I should have given more consideration to the relationship issues we had before he was born. I would have done a lot of things differently.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> I believe we often get more of what we tolerate from another person. If we accept disrespect or abuse, there are plenty of sadistic people in this world who enjoy giving us more of the same. Why would you put up with this for 3 WEEKS, let alone 3 years? There are plenty of threads on this forum near duplicate, some for decades (?!)
> 
> How could you "lose interest"?. I think you are just saying this to feel less bad about surrendering yourself to your "wife" abusing you in this way. You know that there are plenty of females who would happily take her place. Heck there are plenty of women experiencing with their "husbands" what you are with your "wife". It is too bad someone doesn't invent an AP to pair up all of the people who don't want intimacy with one another.
> 
> I don't know what happened after your wedding that flipped the switch, but it doesn't matter because after 3 years it ain't going back. Too much water under the bridge. You only have one life and it is a shame to waste it year by year living with a room mate and calling it a marriage.


It's a dead marriage maybe I'm not what she expected or maybe she wanted more idk. I put up with it because she uses her past trama as excuses for everything and I feel bad for her she is a horribly missrable person constantly negative about everything. 
I know the only way out is divorce I just didn't want my first marriage to end like that.

When I say lost interest I mean I've lost interest to have it with her. Roommates situation I wouldn't say that because most roommates at least get along where I feel like she's always fighting or correcting me constantly regarding everything. 

So yeah I guess it's just a matter of time.


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