# Thoughts about marriage to an insecure woman



## FordGT18 (Dec 4, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

First of all, please let me say thankyou in advance for taking the time to read my post. It is a great site you have here.

I came across this thread by the banned Bribius http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...ch--but-wife-constantly-want-attention-2.html from a google search. It seemed to hit the nail on the head about what I want to share and ask some help for.

A brief (or long) background. Shortly before going to the US for a wedding, (I am Australian) an American girl sent me a message on a Catholic dating webisite. I met up with her for a couple of days before flying back home. Things went OK, not love at first sight or anything, but I was happy to keep in touch over Skype to see how things went. I could see a few things at the start that I was not sure about, but I thought I'd give it a go and I told her I would come to see her again for longer at Easter (2016) and as she is a teacher, she thought she could take her summer holidays off and see me in Australia for a few months if things were going OK. Obviously being long distance, I tried to set a good foundation for the relationship by telling her that it is a lot harder to get to know each other from far away, and that misunderstandings were not uncommon in these circumstances. I asked her if we could keep things easy until we had seen each other on each other's home ground. 

Over the next four months as I got to know her better, I found out that she comes from a separated family, and has all the associated results, anxiety disorder, low self esteem, fear of abandonement, clingy, etc. I didn't bail because I know these things can be helped by the right person and I had promised her that we should only take things further after we had actually spent some time physically together instead of just skyping.

After going to the US for two weeks, it became clear that she was completely besotted with me, to the point where she implied that she would marry me if I would have her. The pressure to reciprocate her feelings was such, that if I were the more ruthless type, I would have called it off after that trip.

After skyping for a while longer upon my return, and in the process of organising her to see me in my country, she decided that she couldn't go back to the US after her holiday, (as she would miss me too much) and that she was planning to quit her job and spend a year working on a visa. I told her she shouldn't do this, as I didn't think she should make this move until our relationship was more serious and I could offer her an engagement, so I asked her to just come for the holiday and then we could look at getting her a residency visa if I was serious about taking things forward. She was very cut at hearing this, even though I had done my utmost to ensure things got out of hand. I will admit that I wasn't as strong about nipping her advances in the bud as I should have been, as I mistook most of them for flirting. She quit her job anyway, despite my wishes. I had wanted her to have something to go back to if things didn't work out after seeing each other for a decent amount of time.

She came over for the US summer holidays, and seeing as she had nothing to go back to, she was anxious and depressed most of the time, which led to tears and fights every second day and and the stress make her exhausted so most of the time I was working, (couldn't take two months off work obviously) and she was in bed just waiting for me to come to see her where she was staying. Overall, not a pleasant time and I called it off.

Expecting her to stab me in the back and not ever hear from her again, surprisingly enough, the exact opposite occurred. She says she still loves me the same and wants me to go back to see her at some point. 

This has touched me deeply, and as I have never really had any close girlfriends, it really amazes me. Her loyalty to me despite the circumstances is unheard of. I am quite a nurturing guy and her insecurities and need to be loved bring out my protective side, which is good for me, not having had anyone rely on me quite so much before. On the other hand, the constant neediness, phone calls, need to be reassured and complimented drain me, and I may end up in the position of Bribius if I am not careful. She says that her insecurities will be minimised and comforted if I marry her, as that shows that I am committed to her, but I know from experience that people can't just change on the turn of a dime. One side of me knows and believes that with help, support and with someone to believe in her, she may improve and blossom, but another side of me has its eyes wide open, and is aware of tying myself into something I regret, and is bad for her too, as if I need to have my own space, she will not feel loved like she needs. She knows she has deficiencies, and has asked for help to overcome them, but in the few small things I have tested her on, nothing really seems to get through to her. She just seems to think of getting the love she needs. 

Am I being too idealistic for my own good, or should I beleive my gut and break it off for good?

Thanks in advance for reading. I hope I have explained my situation well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Please break it off. Please, please, please break it off. You will be grateful later. She sounds like a pit of need.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Do not be her Knight in Shining Armor KISA.

Your back will tire from constantly carrying her to the relationship watering hole.

The back of your mind will soon fill up with the clutter she adds [to it] every day.

Do you love this women? Or do you love "her' love for you? You did say this. I find that troubling.

After you marry her, you will tire of her quickly.

She is running away from her problems. You will be giving her a new batch of Thorn Birds to deal with.

I say let some "local" man unravel her knots.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

LDRs are notorious for turning into bad relationships. It takes years of close contact with a partner to really know if you are marriage material. 
If you do end up married there will be the constant travel back and forth to see families, the risk that if you divorce one will want to move back home and take the kids as well as years of homesickness.

Find someone closer to home.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

....


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Welcome, @FordGT18 

I'll tell you the same thing as I've told my son. You are looking for a partner, not a project. You are looking for someone as close to a whole integrated person as you can find. 

Dating is the interview for marriage. At this point in time, she doesn't pass the interview. 

She wants to be rescued and you want to rescue her. You can't fix her. She needs to do that herself. People can only fix themselves. If she uses you it will be a co-dependent relationship. She needs to understand this too. I'm not saying these relationships never work out, it's just that much harder, depending on how deep the problems are. 

Don't Fall into the White Knight Syndrome. It will not help her or you grow. 

Nice guys are notorious rescuers. There are dozens of threads on this site and others like it, about nice guys who found themselves in over their heads. Resist being a Nice Guy. 

I hope reading these links I included help you decide...


Best


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

FordGT18 said:


> but I know from experience that people can't *just change on the turn of a dime.*




That's interesting, I didn't know that Australians called their 10 cent coin a "dime", or used the phrase "turn of a dime"....... You learn something new every day.



But, yeah, what everyone else was saying. This poor gal [bless her], sounds_ scary_ clingy and dependent.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> That's interesting, I didn't know that Australians called their 10 cent coin a "dime", or used the phrase "turn of a dime"....... You learn something new every day.
> 
> 
> 
> But, yeah, what everyone else was saying. This poor gal [bless her], sounds_ scary_ clingy and dependent.



We don't call the 10c a dime however the use of the phrase "turn on a dime" is used here and would not necessarily be a clue that the author was a hit and run fiction writer.

A good one to look out for is the use of the word "mom".


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

FordGT18 said:


> Over the next four months as I got to know her better, I found out that she comes from a separated family, and has all the associated results, anxiety disorder, low self esteem, fear of abandonement, clingy, etc. I didn't bail because *I know these things can be helped by the right person *and I had promised her that we should only take things further after we had actually spent some time physically together instead of just skyping.


That person is a therapist or counsellor in her own town, not a random internet guy from across the world.



FordGT18 said:


> Am I being too idealistic for my own good, or should I beleive my gut and break it off for good?


If you're here, you already know the answer. I would recommend counselling for yourself, to figure out why you think that this woman must be your only dating option.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

After divorcing my ww, one thing I promised myself is: NEVER get involved with a woman with low self esteem or insecurity issues.


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

Everyone here has already said everything that needs to be said. There are literally millions of fish in the sea. 

I get the feeling you're not going to listen though.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

FordGT18 said:


> This has touched me deeply, and as I have never really had any close girlfriends, it really amazes me. Her loyalty to me despite the circumstances is unheard of.
> 
> I am quite a nurturing guy and her insecurities and need to be loved bring out my protective side, which is good for me, not having had anyone rely on me quite so much before.


Red flags: 
Having never really dated before, you don't know what normal looks like (hint: this ain't it).

It doesn't amaze you; it strokes your ego. Big difference. Dangerous difference.

Her loyalty isn't loyalty: it's neurosis. It's an imbalanced person attaching herself to you in TOO short of a time, dangerously short. Have you ever watched Fatal Attraction? I suggest you watch it asap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Attraction

Bringing out your protective side is NOT good for you. It's dangerous and fated to end badly. 

Do you know the worst possible way to get married? By thinking you can change (help) the person once you do. 

You're making a HUGE mistake.


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> After divorcing my ww, one thing I promised myself is: NEVER get involved with a woman with low self esteem or insecurity issues.


And it never gets better. If anything it gets worse. Talk about walking on eggshells so as not to damage their fragile egos.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

KJ_Simmons said:


> And it never gets better. If anything it gets worse. Talk about walking on eggshells so as not to damage their fragile egos.


Yup. And no matter what you do to try and boost their self esteem...it just doesn't work. However if a low life posom comes onto the scene and throws a few compliments their way....well, we all know what happens then.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

When she quite her job after the two of you didn't know each other that well, that was a definite warning sign. I don't know if I would call it off, but be very wary that she seems to be overly needy. 

I know a woman who did this before, quit her job and moved to her boyfriend's location wanting a new life. When she got there her boyfriend called everything off. It sounds cold but these days you have to protect yourself.


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> Yup. And no matter what you do to try and boost their self esteem...it just doesn't work. However if a low life posom comes onto the scene and throws a few compliments their way....well, we all know what happens then.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## FordGT18 (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks for all your replies and sorry that it has been so long since I have posted. 

I really do appreciate your insight.

Borderline Personality Syndrome seems to be the closest thing that I can use to describe her personality, including the fear of being abandoned.

I will keep you all updated.

Thankyou again!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

FordGT18 said:


> If I need to have my own space, she will not feel loved like she needs.


Yes, if she exhibits strong Borderline traits as you suspect, she will feel abandoned by you whenever you move away from her. But that's only half the problem. Such a person also has a second great fear -- engulfment. Importantly, the positions of those two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- are at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum. This means you are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist. 



> Borderline Personality Syndrome seems to be the closest thing that I can use to describe her personality....


Here in the States it's called BPD (Borderline Personality _Disorder_), even though _"Syndrome"_ is a more accurate term. If you are interested, I describe the red flags for that syndrome at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ -- and provide a more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Ford.


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## reboot (Oct 9, 2012)

Run away. You cannot fix her. If she is a borderline, she will blunt your sharpest tools and sharpen your softest touches, leaving you baffled, stunned, and convinced you are a bad person. If you are a Knight in Shining Armor then start your heroic journey by learning to protect yourself. Realize the worst demons and monsters are the most alluring and beautiful, even as they suck your life blood away.

Trust your gut. Trust that tiny voice. The reason it is tiny is because you are still far from understanding what is best for yourself, how to respect yourself, and how to give yourself the best so you can be the best and most true form of you. 

I did not listen to that tiny voice nor did I hear such advice when I was dating my wife of 15 years who is almost certainly a high-functioning borderline. I strutted into the marriage garden of love confident I could slay her demons and unleash her perfect potential. Very quickly I discovered the problem was not the demons; it was me. Over the years I blunted and broke my sword, shattered my armor, and finally woke up to an inexorable truth of horror: I became her demon, her chief tormentor, and her failed knight.


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## FordGT18 (Dec 4, 2016)

Thankyou everyone once again for your insights.

I have read everything that was recommended and have a much larger insight into this now.

Again, I will keep you posted as things progress.

Cheers,
Matthew


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## FordGT18 (Dec 4, 2016)

Hi Everyone!

For those of you who are still around, (and those of you who are finding this site via Google - like me) here is a quick update on the situation. There really isn't much to report, except that I am much more aware of myself now and am doing wonderfully well!

I feel like I used to in the past, with much less stress, and am my normal happy self again.

Thankyou to everyone who helped me to see this situation for what it was; I really had no idea that these situations were so common.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Are you still together with this woman? married? Things improved?


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## FordGT18 (Dec 4, 2016)

BigDigg said:


> Are you still together with this woman? married? Things improved?


Thanks for asking; I am not with her any more and I am happy once again!


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Whew!


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

If she was BPD, good you dodged it.
On a different tact, I will give some thoughts for the future.
A marriage is a merger. Know the person. Better yet know yourself. 
From you initial post it was stated she could be helped with the right person. You knew you weren't that person. Yet you kept her hanging on because,


FordGT18 said:


> This has touched me deeply, and as I have never really had any close girlfriends, it really amazes me. Her loyalty to me despite the circumstances is unheard of.


She was fulfilling a need in you so you kept her hanging on. She had needs you were ill-equipped to fulfill. Future reference, consider the woman's feelings.

Edit: I know it is scary for a man. It is for the good women also. Don't know if she was or not. Learn a few of the psych test games to find out quickly so you both can move on to find what you want'


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