# Ladies how should I approach my wife now physically as we recover from disconnect?



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

*Ladies how should I approach my wife now that I'm starting my 180?*

Quick recap...

2 years since ILYNILWY
We stopped holding hands, kissing and she stopped requesting footrubs or massages for several years. She mostly sits away from me.

No sex since July. Part my doing... but likely very soon.

I'll sometimes touch her lower back, offer a hug or rub her feet.... just now her wall is coming down. She is returning emotionally to me I see it. Mainly because of time and effort on my part and she knows the seriousness of it all.

So where do I go from here?

How can I best bring some of those things we used to do daily back?

I'd like to get to the point where we have sex regularly, hold hands when walking, kiss her at least daily snuggle sometimes when watching movies without freaking her out etc. I'm not super touch feely but I do miss the basics.

Just not sure how to start all that over again. Not sure she's ready for that.

Any advice from ladies who are maybe feeling the same way as my wife? How would you like your husband to approach you after a couple years of less affection going on because of her disconnect. To bring back consistent day to day affection.

I just don't want to screw it up... thanks.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm not your target audience, so maybe I am off base. But it sounds kind of like dating.... where once she warms up, then it's time for THE romantic night! With candles lit, and rose petals, and music down low, and whatever else floats her boat! 

Seduce her.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> I'm not your target audience, so maybe I am off base. But it sounds kind of like dating.... where once she warms up, then it's time for THE romantic night! With candles lit, and rose petals, and music down low, and whatever else floats her boat!
> 
> Seduce her.


Thanks for that suggestion... I do need to do that but probably will wait for us to get on track sexually as to not appear pushy I don't want her to feel obligated that I was pushing for sex. Maybe early next year or Valentines to make us closer. I'm very careful not to mess up the recovery process.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

What does this mean...ILYNILWY?

I'm sorry but I couldn't figure it out and hard to offer advice without knowing what it means.


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## Craggy456 (Feb 22, 2011)

Trenton said:


> What does this mean...ILYNILWY?
> 
> I'm sorry but I couldn't figure it out and hard to offer advice without knowing what it means.


I love you but not in love with you


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Craggy456 said:


> I love you but not in love with you


Ohhhhh sorry.

KK time to re-read.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Yes... little touches all the time. Small of her back. Kiss her head. Just innocent touches when she talks to you.... rub her arm, hold her hand, etc....

I had to remind myself to TOUCH my new husband often, because me ex was not touchy/feely at all. I was even afraid that I might not like all this touching, but OMG..... it's the awesomest!!!!


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Sounds to me like you're doing pretty good already by adding little things.

I'd suggest always giving her a kiss before leaving the house and another when you come home. Just a quick peck or 2 on the lips.

When out in public hold her hand while walking.

Cuddle her when your sleeping. You might want to wait until the two of you are starting to feel more connected to do this.

Thumbs up for the touching of the small of her back. I love when my hubby does that, but he doesn't do it often enough.

And don't forget date nights. You two need alone time to reconnect.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Thanks so much for the replies.

Its pretty much what I thought...sounds like taking is very slowly.

I would love to kiss my wife but think that would look a little odd since it hasn't happened regularly for so long. Hopefully once when we start having regular sex she'll want to kiss then and than I can expand it to everyday pecks... just don't want to freak her out at this critical juncture.

My wife is usually moving pretty fast... comes from her doing he gym and her job requires she move fast. So holding hands is difficult because she is usually in fast mode daily. She used to ask everyday for a foot rub, so I know she likes them. Just wish she'd ask again that was nice knowing she wanted me too. Oh well sure it's a mental block still for her. Patience.

I guess I just need to continue what I'm doing... I try connecting through intimate conversation. When I can I give her a quick hug or walk up and touch her lower back. I start rubbing her feet when I can especially when I know they must feel like they need a massage after a hard days work.

She asked me out to a club tonight... funny thing is that is what led to me giving her a reality check two weeks ago when she ignored me at another club. Going to be interesting... seems like she is trying hard to reach out and connect with me.
Before this I can guarantee she wouldn't have asked me to go rather just hang with her girlfriends and make it a "girls night out". It was nice to hear her in a coy voice ask ME out. So we certainly are making progress  looking forward to spending time with her tonight.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Ladies can you "list" in order where you appreciate non-sexual touch and the touches that make you think of sex more later? (example)

1. Kiss on lips
2. Touch on arm
3, Touch my hair

Maybe that way I can see what most women enjoy.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Touch on face...
Hug from behind....
Sliding his hands down my sides....


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Did your wife say ILNILWY because she was having an affair? This is usually the case.

I sometimes think in the case of ILYNILWY that the person who says it should be more of the pursuer. But it helps to know why it was said, what the circumstances are.

I think looking into her eyes and holding her gaze is sexy and helps connect couples (it's been proven through research, actually). 

I don't know what the pursuer/distancer dynamic is in your relationship and that makes all the difference.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Can you recall some of the things that your wife enjoyed back when you were dating or early married? Can you start to slowly bring back some of those touches or flirting into the relationship?

I love when my H comes up to me from behind, like when I'm at the kitchen counter doing something, he'll slide his hands slowly around my waist, nose my long hair away from my neck, give a slow kiss to my neck, inhale deeply, say "uhmmm", then slowly disengage and walk away. 

I love when he holds my doors open for me, helps me out of the car, or puts his hand around my waist/back as he opens a door for me.

I love how he gives me a little smirky smile and waggles his eyebrows when he passes me in the hallway.

We do hold hands when we are out. You don't see this very much except in young couples. It's sad. We try and buck the trend.

When he's trying to get me 'more in the mood', he may come up behind me, but his hands will start at my waist and slowly move up to just under my breasts, and he may growl or lightly nip my neck.

He'll corner me in the laundry room and push me against the wall with his body - give me a kiss or sometimes just a look and then walk away.

When he can tell that I'm really in to it, he will chase me through the house - with dogs yapping at our heels and kids laughing/smirking - pick me up, whirl me around, and kiss me.

Good Luck.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

T2FIO, I see you found a new area to post. Good for you. Good thing too that your prior threads have been deleted from the site. Now you have a new cadre of females to read and give you advise. Maybe you have your meds under control or have decided on a different tact posting.

Sad that there still is no "REAL" progress and you still make excuses for all her behaviour.

Look forward to stories of your night out.....


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Did your wife say ILNILWY because she was having an affair? This is usually the case.
> 
> I sometimes think in the case of ILYNILWY that the person who says it should be more of the pursuer. But it helps to know why it was said, what the circumstances are.
> 
> ...


I don't believe there was ever any affair.... she had many red flags but I believe it was her way of making herself feel better... she started shaving her privates, bought sexy undies, went to the gym more... she is very social. I snooped and came up with NOTHING so I don't think she cheated at all.

ILYNILWY stemmed form me being too nice, drinking a bit much, yelling at my two boys to relieve sexual stress.... I know that sounds crazy BUT I couldn't at the time yell at her. I thought that I might affect change... I did just the wrong way! My wife also being social has a lot of "friends" some of which evidently called me out when she complained about me. 

Part of it is my personality.... First off I'm a GREAT husband I love my wife and family... I'm a 100% devoted family man. Often putting their needs ahead of mine. I'm intelligent and have a unique sense of humor. Because I'm smart and good looking life generally works for me... I have good luck. Sometimes I guess it can come across as egotistical... but in reality I'm the nicest guy most people will ever meet. I was in management and my employees loved me... sometimes I'd' joke with them when I solved a problem "That's why they pay me the big bucks!" I think sometimes people don't know I'm joking. Customers loved me following me around for more than ten years. So i believe that sense of humor started grating on people and my wife now that I look back. I'm also naturally an introvert and my wife and extrovert. All that eventually led to ILYNILWY. I'm a very easy going person by nature not much flusters me. I handle stress with ease apart from my sex life.

I'm gazing into my wife's eyes a lot more, I make her look away first. My wife knows she has a good husband... she'd be crazy to not continue this marriage. I hope she understands that I'm at the point I can be good with or without her. She hit me where it hurts... all the time with a smile on her face. Nonetheless she hit me where it hurts 

I guess I was not the pursuer... she picked me out of a crowd, she asked me to marry her. I was introverted... I've gotten a lot better but still an introvert at heart. Doesn't take a lot to make me happy but it takes Love.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> T2FIO, I see you found a new area to post. Good for you. Good thing too that your prior threads have been deleted from the site. Now you have a new cadre of females to read and give you advise. Maybe you have your meds under control or have decided on a different tact posting.
> 
> Sad that there still is no "REAL" progress and you still make excuses for all her behaviour.
> 
> Look forward to stories of your night out.....


I deleted those threads... they came across wrong. Again part of my sense of humor. It gets me in trouble sometimes. I blame Monty Python and their extreme views on life. Life is a game to me.

There is real progress as I live with my wife... true our sex life is still in libo but I know we are connecting much more... just a matter of time.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't believe there was ever any affair.... she had many red flags but I believe it was her way of making herself feel better... she started shaving her privates, bought sexy undies, went to the gym more... she is very social. I snooped and came up with NOTHING so I don't think she cheated at all.
> 
> ILYNILWY stemmed form me being too nice, drinking a bit much, yelling at my two boys to relieve sexual stress.... I know that sounds crazy BUT I couldn't at the time yell at her. I thought that I might affect change... I did just the wrong way! My wife also being social has a lot of "friends" some of which evidently called me out when she complained about me.
> 
> ...


Theres the egotistical T2FIO I have come to love and respect so much..... Was only a matter of time.....:smthumbup:

I think you should find yourself a mistress and share all you have to offer.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Can you recall some of the things that your wife enjoyed back when you were dating or early married? Can you start to slowly bring back some of those touches or flirting into the relationship?
> 
> I love when my H comes up to me from behind, like when I'm at the kitchen counter doing something, he'll slide his hands slowly around my waist, nose my long hair away from my neck, give a slow kiss to my neck, inhale deeply, say "uhmmm", then slowly disengage and walk away.
> 
> ...


Thanks...great ideas. I think some of it stems from my wife and I were never totally lovey dovey. I think I need to buy us a hot tub ( she mentions it sometimes)...a lot of good memories in the hot tub at our apartments complex before we married.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Theres the egotistical T2FIO I have come to love and respect so much..... Was only a matter of time.....:smthumbup:
> 
> I think you should find yourself a mistress and share all you have to offer.



LOL ..no (to the mistress) rest spot on. Whatever everyone has an ego to a point. I guess when different people keep telling you something over and over you start to believe it.
I'm not ashamed of my outlook on life or my ego.... It helps to have confidence in yourself. I'm not a bad guy...I'm one of the good ones. Life is what you make of it and it helps to have confidence in yourself.

I adore my wife and family. I enjoy everyday life.

I'm not afraid to put myself and my personality out there so other posters can understand my situation better.... there is no point in hiding from yourself. Just being honest because i'm seeking advice.. This is therapy.

Like another poster said on another thread.... you are nothing like the OP's husband who was uncaring, abusive etc. She was right.

I keep my ego under wraps now in real life... i learned from this. Part of my better man strategy.... online I feel free to let it out again therapy.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Been waiting all day to hear about your night out at the club your wife "graciously" invited you to. 

No luck again?

Really you are such a great catch and have so much going for you, is it not time to cut bait and find a loving partner?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Been waiting all day to hear about your night out at the club your wife "graciously" invited you to.
> 
> No luck again?
> 
> Really you are such a great catch and have so much going for you, is it not time to cut bait and find a loving partner?


Why don't I cut bait?

Because divorce is not my prime option.

As for the club we had fun danced a lot and came home 2am late... she was exhausted and fell asleep in the car.. so I didn't even try (didn't think it'd work I do care about her)

Tonight would be great but she's still tired from staying out late so I'm not confident about tonight either.

I know you thing I'm an egomanic... I'm confident there is a difference. I almost always put other ahead of me that is not a general trait of someone with a huge ego. I'm comfortable with myself.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

And sexless..... This is why you make no sense. You have been sexless, put in a plan, wrote letters as to what you expected and when you had a great night (btw where were the kids) and instead of calling it a night at say midnight, instead out 'til 2 am, and already writing off tonight.

Good thing you are so comfortable and sure of yourself.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And sexless..... This is why you make no sense. You have been sexless, put in a plan, wrote letters as to what you expected and when you had a great night (btw where were the kids) and instead of calling it a night at say midnight, instead out 'til 2 am, and already writing off tonight.
> 
> Good thing you are so comfortable and sure of yourself.


Kids alone... we were out with friends they all stayed out late.
I'm not writing off tonight yet. I'm trying to do this the right way not my way.

Confidence helps. I know it'll get fixed just a matter of when.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

You may not want to believe it, but your wife may have been having an affair. Women don't shave their pvssies all of a sudden if they are not having sex with someone, and if that person wasn't you, it was likely someone else.

Your wife seems to hold all the cards. Her likely affair coupled with your lack of power in the relationship is NOT a good dynamic at all.

When a woman cheats on her husband and then her husband bends over backwards to try to keep her, it makes the husband look weak and undesireable. But if you make your unfaithful spouse WORK to keep you, your cheating spouse starts to value you. If your wife can't see your worth, she's not worth staying married to. But you need to truly believe you are worthy of love, devotion and a faithful wife. And you need to be willing to walk away if your wife can't appreciate you.

Most women and men are attracted to people who value themselves and have confidence. Allowing people to treat you poorly allows them to continue to devalue you as a person, husband, human being. 

People treat us the way we allow them to. 

Also, most people who boast are not truly confident. They are insecure. Confident people don't feel the need to prove something to the world through bragging and boasting.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> You may not want to believe it, but your wife may have been having an affair. Women don't shave their pvssies all of a sudden if they are not having sex with someone, and if that person wasn't you, it was likely someone else.
> 
> Your wife seems to hold all the cards. Her likely affair coupled with your lack of power in the relationship is NOT a good dynamic at all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your view....

I cannot rule out an affair but I highly doubt one even with many red flags. I may be naive but I just don't see it. Obviously we had sex after she shaved it did coincide fairly close to ILYNILWY my thoughts were if her reality check didn't work and I left at the time perhaps she was prepping for single life. She even said at the time perhaps I'm not the girl for you she put it in my court.

After I assured her she was the girl for me... I have heard nothing but that she is 100% committed to our marriage.

I know I'm at a crossroads... two years was a limit in essence so its a full court press right now to resolve this one way or another. 

I just don't think my wife understands what she is doing by starving me sexually, she has some issues obviously. At this point I don't think its me at all. And I don't think she's having any affairs. Its her.

Part of it is my fault... I made her this way towards me I was too easy too accommodating.... I'm working on that everyday as I've become a better man. Hopefully she starts to get the hots for me again soon. I know there is no guarantee but I do believe strongly in marriage and sticking out the difficult years.

If she was having an affair I'd think I'd see other deficiencies in other areas. Everything else is great.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

It just seems to me like you are blaming yourself for your wife treating you poorly. If your wife had an affair, it is hard to move forward without honesty. 

I am also taking a leap by saying that your wife seems to be restless. Clubbing with friends, not giving you sex, saying she loves you but is not IN love with you. Regardless if she is having an affair or not, those things are troubling. 

Have you tried MC? You should. I also think you both should have IC.

In addition, I think focusing on YOURSELF instead of on the relationship might be a good thing. Develop some hobbies, go out with your friends, do things that show your wife that you care about yourself and are living a full life independent from her.

When a woman wants to club, shaves her snatch, and tells her husband she's not in love with him, it means she's not happy with her life. What your wife may not realize is that SHE is responsible for this unhappiness. She's probably looking for love and affirmation in all the wrong places and if she doesn't figure out how to love and accept herself, she's at risk of cheating, leaving you, and making a mess of her life. Therapy would help her make these connections. Therapy would help you figure out why you are willing to accept the crumbs your wife is tossing you when you deserve more than that.

Have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? It is great stuff, in spite of it's hokey title. Learning to be more assertive to get your needs met will make you happier and will likely help your marriage.

Sorry you are struggling. I'm not sure why some of the folks who have posted to this thread have been rude to you, but I feel for you and hope you can find a way to improve your situation.


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## Ello1012 (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey! So I think you should ask permission firstm, if you dotn want her to go clubbing at your expense, you tell her. A good wife loves her Husband God willing adn God willing she obeys. If she disobeys and goes clubbing anyway, I think you deserve some one who is more homey for your type (Dont get me wrong I'm the stay at home kinda guy myself, but I will spice up our days and nights and go out and do things but watch movies togethor infront of the fire with a soft carpet pillow blankets and a bottle of massage oil and play when neccesary lol If I can God willing.) BUT! Ask for permission to have sex with her first. Always ask for permission first (It could be consider a small form of forplay or being chivarly if you wish) Ask if she says yes, you know she may want you, can't speak for her, but if she constantly shuts you down, all the time, you might want to see a MC, or you know Although i hate Divorce it certainly is an option.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> It just seems to me like you are blaming yourself for your wife treating you poorly. If your wife had an affair, it is hard to move forward without honesty.
> 
> I am also taking a leap by saying that your wife seems to be restless. Clubbing with friends, not giving you sex, saying she loves you but is not IN love with you. Regardless if she is having an affair or not, those things are troubling.
> 
> ...


Laurea,

Thank you again I really like when ladies take the time to converse about my situation.

My wife has always clubbed throughout our marriage so this behavior isn't necessarily new. I have always given her free reign to do whatever she wants... It's not like shes clubbing every week... maybe once every month or so. I do think she does search for "admiration" from others, She is very social and knows everyone... but really doesn't have many close friends.

She claims she was crying in our bathroom many nights when I would yell at my boys before the ILYNILWY... I can look back and see I was out of line... I could have handled their discipline better. I do now just by talking firm. My boys love me and they respect me. They support me. I think my wife respects me too... she asks for my input and approval a lot. She says "don't make me get dad" . She asks for help a lot.

She is a very "I" person. I really think it boils down to the fact hat she can't see herself as the issue at this point. I'm nice enough that I don't complain too much. I believe she could definitely use counseling but she wont. I suggested it a while back and she stated "How are they going to change my feelings"

I believe she is trying however I don't know if her trying is enough to get her where she needs to be to feel sexual towards me again. I'm trying and that's all I can do, trust me I'm a good husband to her and my boys. I don't deserve sexless.... I'm also good looking and fit so no excuses from her.

I've read all the books... I get the issue.

As for me needing therapy...possibly as it has been a lot of mental anguish but I do have a good personality for handling stress. So I think I'm ok just in a difficult personal situation that has been going on for a while. She is a great wife in all other areas that helps.

It boils down to this for her and why we aren't having sex...

1. She is naturally tired at night (she used to sleep at her own slumber parties her mom said)
2. She works very hard. Gets up 4am.
3. She has never had a huge sex drive (Mostly monthly)
4. She is a grudge holder (Dis-owned both sister and best friend)
5. She has many social outlets. Gym, Facebook, clubs
6. I'm too passive... I was kinda a nerd growing up intovert
7. She still harbors resentments... most small some larger.
8. Only likes sex before bed.

On the plus side...

1. She says she likes sex


So i just don't know... I'm ok most of the time but it does become a downer when you think "why me". This isn't normal or fair. 

I look at he big picture... things happen for a reason.
I believe we will come out of this much better eventually.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Ello1012 said:


> Hey! So I think you should ask permission firstm, if you dotn want her to go clubbing at your expense, you tell her. A good wife loves her Husband God willing adn God willing she obeys. If she disobeys and goes clubbing anyway, I think you deserve some one who is more homey for your type (Dont get me wrong I'm the stay at home kinda guy myself, but I will spice up our days and nights and go out and do things but watch movies togethor infront of the fire with a soft carpet pillow blankets and a bottle of massage oil and play when neccesary lol If I can God willing.) BUT! Ask for permission to have sex with her first. Always ask for permission first (It could be consider a small form of forplay or being chivarly if you wish) Ask if she says yes, you know she may want you, can't speak for her, but if she constantly shuts you down, all the time, you might want to see a MC, or you know Although i hate Divorce it certainly is an option.


Thanks...

I don't mind if she clubs once in a while she needs the break to have fun. I never believe in asking for sex... that makes it seem like a gift. I'd rather be turned down than have to ask.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Well shot down again (that's enough)... at 7:37 after a twenty minute foot rub with lotion got up to her ankles... when I went for calf thats when it happened at least she thanked me for it. Shes sleeping now. I just left didn't get upset.

I knew she was tired from last night out until 2am... doesn't make it easy. Now on to Sunday... if not next opportunity is thanksgiving. Hey I was out too...I got up hours before her and I'm ready to go! Tired I hate that word!

Frustrating to say the least.

So as far as non-sexual today I gave her a hug from behind when she came down and rubbed her tummy.

Also when she was baking xmas goodies I came over and gave her a little side hug and touched my head to hers. She seemed receptive to both hugs.

I knew it was an uphill battle when I heard I'm tired at 2:00 and again at 4:00 and I don't want to cook dinner... I got us sushi.

Now I'm here telling you about it.... unfortunately I do believe this by a day or so is the longest dry spell ever. Just over 4 months! I need her. Preferably wide awake.

I just don't think she gets how hard this is on me. All about her I guess.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trying I know you don't think she is having an affair but will you do some investigating just to show how wrong we are? Please, do a through check of her email, phone, FB, may put a keylogger , and VAD in the car. That will shut us up on that topic. First of all if she is too tierd to have sex why is she not too tierd to go to clubs and other social event, do the FB thing, engage in social events? She has you on the back burner when you should be front and center. 

Have you posted in the Men's Clubhouse? You may get some comments that are caustic but there are excellent posters who give helpful advice in a non thretening way. If you find out she is cheating they will offer the support you will need. Link back to some of your other threads. 

There is so much that women can tell you and besides, you will not listen. Maybe you will listen to men who will tell you in a way you can hear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Trying I know you don't think she is having an affair but will you do some investigating just to show how wrong we are? Please, do a through check of her email, phone, FB, may put a keylogger , and VAD in the car. That will shut us up on that topic. First of all if she is too tierd to have sex why is she not too tierd to go to clubs and other social event, do the FB thing, engage in social events? She has you on the back burner when you should be front and center.
> 
> Have you posted in the Men's Clubhouse? You may get some comments that are caustic but there are excellent posters who give helpful advice in a non thretening way. If you find out she is cheating they will offer the support you will need. Link back to some of your other threads.
> 
> ...


I listen to everyone... I have posted in the men's clubhouse.
5-hour energy is what got her through last nights club.

FB she does for a half hour or so before bed.

I do agree if I were front burner I'm pretty sure we'd have more sex.
Still behind sleep..work..gym..family

She is not cheating but i will snoop more if it makes you happy.

She texts a lot for her work... I always snoop that.
I see who posts to her facebook... I know most all them others are females
Have not done keylogger, she uses a work e-mail mainly. No var


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks T I hope you find nothing. Don't do a surface investigation. Check out what she does at the meat market .... ehhh club. Does she drink, dance etc.. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Thanks T I hope you find nothing. Don't do a surface investigation. Check out what she does at the meat market .... ehhh club. Does she drink, dance etc..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife is not a heavy drinker she might have two drinks and then quit so she's ok to drive.

She always goes with good female friends that are my friends. I've seen her dance and it's mainly alone or interacting with other females. i never see her pay much attention to males (including me).

So I believe the girls just dance together mostly in a group... she is a good dancer and it looks like she just enjoys it. I'm pretty sure it's be a waste to hire a PI... it'd be a boring report. With some pics of hot middle age soccer moms.

It's just her... she doesn't as of yet prioritize our sex life.

Well i told her I expect results in November so I guess we'll see.

So far all nights that were possibilities I can see why we didn't have sex so far this month after my reality check.......

A couple her period
A couple she was really sick
A couple her parents in next room...tired
A couple this weekend...tired

So I can see why she wasn't ready. Guess I'll see how she feels tomorrow.
I think we are just dysfunctional somehow.
I'm pretty sure we love each other ... just our sex life sucks to me not to her.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

You know what bites... getting up at 3:45am because you just wake up and think of your lousy sex life.

Now my decision happy face or silent treatment.... oh I'll choose happy face because I know silent treatment doesn't work....at least football is on today. But even that isn't as fun to look forward to anymore. Guess it's the passing the 4 month sexless mark that's got me in a weird mood. Funny how happiness wanes on a dime. I'm back to worrying about my sexlife unfortunately. oh well the previous weeks were a nice escape almost felt normal... thinking I had it solved. We are just running out of days in November.....disappointing. Guess I'll see what happens the rest of the month then make a decision about how to proceed in December. Perhaps she is just a procrastinater and we'll get busy soon. We'll see.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Even I'm starting to feel bad for you and wonder about all your posts. 

I know you came to the Ladies Lounge to hide from your persona and the threads on other subsections, but without being honest your not going to get advise here without divulging what other issues your wife may have.

Maybe she is not having an affair, but it is perfectly obvious she has no respect for you and is just going through the motions with you. Four months and she continues to slough you off with complete disdain each and every time. 

You make excuses for her (lack of sleep, busy schedule, holds a grudge, won't compromise, low sex drive....). 

She has not responded in 3 weeks to the letter you wrote and shows no affection to you whatsoever.

This is not healthy at all.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Even I'm starting to feel bad for you and wonder about all your posts.
> 
> I know you came to the Ladies Lounge to hide from your persona and the threads on other subsections, but without being honest your not going to get advise here without divulging what other issues your wife may have.
> 
> ...



Thanks,

Actually I'm not hiding at all I post almost everywhere (Its therapy and I think my story helps others)... sometimes to get advice sometimes to give advice. Keep in mind part of the four months was my self imposed celibacy period... after ILYNILWY we only had sex 7 times so that works out to an average of 3-4 moths between. Prior to that only about monthly roughly 15 times per year for the most recent years of our marriage leading up to our issue, slightly more in early years.

The difference I wasn't worried before about my sex life...because it was regular like clockwork. Plus enough in-between massages etc. Some occasional finger play. It did end up eventually when it waned my stress and acting out and was a root cause of ILYNILWY.

She does show affection, she's nice, talks to me with a smile, we act like really good friends when awake. She just tends to be full of energy during the day goes full bore and when she crashes at night she's done. Yet she only will have sex at night and has been that way forever! 

I really think it mainly is a lifestyle issue and that when she gets tired the last thing on her mind is sex..I don't think its love, affair or anything else.... apart from tired coupled with some negative feelings from prior to 2 years ago. She also exhibits signs or Peri-menopause and has for the same two years.. I did actually ask her mom about any prior sex abuse and she says none... but she said it could be hormones as she herself needed to try a bunch of hormones until her fog lifted... she said she couldn't stand her husband until the hormones balanced out. Is it like mother like daughter? Her mom said she'd talk to her about menopause change but i don't think she ever did. My wife is overdue for her doctor visit, I don't think she realizes that could help. She acts indestructible... but guess who is sick a lot more. I really think she feels any third party help is unnecessary... shes very stubborn.

My goal was to get to a level sexually finally that was workable as in multiple times monthly. I presented that to her and so far no results... keep in mind she read it alone and it did seem to trigger changes.. she is certainly perkier and seems more like before we had the issue.

So I guess I do rationalize her behavior...she is a unique woman she has so much going for her yet not much concern for my needs. It's disappointing so far. I do believe she is "trying" and wants desperately for our marriage to work out she has never indicated otherwise.. I just think she has some"mental" issues to work through. I thought shocking her would help and I haven't given up hope yet... tonite is a possibility so all I can do is keep trying. I don't think it's a respect issue. It's just her and how she views the importance of sex and her holding on to past resentments plus her natural tiredness and shut down at night (she has always been that way)... plain and simple.

I'm ok just disappointed about not having a decent sex life while married. I still love her deeply. I'm willing to put in the work if it eventually pays off. My whole premise of this whole two-year period was to come out fixed... win/win.

Perhaps had I not pushed my needs we would be further along possibly back to normal... but in reality that wasn't enough. When I told her over a year ago about male needs she felt lectured too. I just reminded her two-weeks ago with the reality check. I feel she is still processing that and realizes once she starts she cant pull the 3-4 month junk so she is delaying starting.. if that makes sense. I'm sure its on her mind right now she knows ther is a clock ticking down... I'm going to just see what happens the rest of November if nothing then I'm going to have a direct talk with her to hash it all out and not stop until we do with solid solutions because at that point she will have just walked all over me totally ignoring my reality check. This will not just go away... I'm determined to solve this one way or another. I am not acceptable to a sexless marriage... plain and simple.
She has freely offered up "Its is all her" at this point and that she is really "trying"... no longer about me or my negative behaviors... she loves my consistency and the positive changes.

At least I learned a lot about relationships and have been able to help others.. thanks.

PS... Sorry for going overboard about "solving" my sexless marriage...it just felt so good to feel normal again and it was my weird sense of boasting on forums sometimes... sorry if it got taken the wrong way. Perhaps I'm not as secure as I think I am. Thanks for caring?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

This is the thing....YOU are the only one putting in all the work.

It is NOT okay for your wife to tell you she is not in love with you and to not have a physical relationship with you. You are both ignoring the elephant in the room. Burying your head in the sand is not going to help you have a happy marriage.

You downplay everything that is going on, but honestly, if you were okay with what was going on in your marriage, you wouldn't be posting to this thread.

Have you tried pulling away and doing the 180? That can be very helpful. It just pains me to hear that you are doing all these things for your wife and she isn't doing anything for you.

Is your wife a narcissist? Has she ever cared about your needs? Does she care about her children's needs (not just what they look like or what they accomplish, but THEIR needs)? Maybe that is the issue. And if it is, you are in for a really rough ride.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> This is the thing....YOU are the only one putting in all the work.
> 
> It is NOT okay for your wife to tell you she is not in love with you and to not have a physical relationship with you. You are both ignoring the elephant in the room. Burying your head in the sand is not going to help you have a happy marriage.
> 
> ...


Thanks Laurae,

I have not done a 180... most of what I've done is becoming a better man... I am more alpha at the house... making sure I control the kids and stand up to her. I believe my wife does care for me and would do most anything... yet sex seems to be the issue.

She is a great mom and loves the boys.... She cares for them but I do notice she only does it in spurts... when home I'd say she is alone 50% of the time. Either at the computer or just doing household work or getting ready. I interact with the kids much more than she does. She makes herself busy doing stuff.

I think I'm going to just have to keep up the pressure on her like I said if November bears no fruit the she is going to get an earful in December.

Its hard finding the balance... On one hand I want to give her space and time to come up with a solution. On the other this is absolutely unfair from my perspective. So for most of this two year period I've been patient and transforming into a better man. I have given her two six month periods where nothing was mentioned.

I'm trying the always be happy and upbeat approach lately along with the reality check. Seems like tonight might be a go... I've done a lot for her today running to the store etc. She seems in a good mood and hasn't mentioned being tired. Fingers crossed.

A 180 might be necessary but I believe its mainly for cases of infidelity and when you are planning an exit strategy to improve yourself.. I'm no quite to the exit strategy phase so I'm erring on the side or remaining positive along with consistent pressure as needed every month.

My thought is to make her uncomfortable enough with constant monthly focus on this so that sooner rather than later she just figures out sex would be easier to deal with... I'm not backing down from my expectations as they are fair and shes put me through this. She says she likes sex... I just think since we've been so sexless she just isn't primed for it. Sorta use it or lose it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You mean you have to run around like a trained monkey to get your wife to give you some loving every 6 months? Now I know what the guys are talking about when they say they have to jump through hoops. Yours are flaming hoops. 

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, PLEASE. Even if she has sex with you, the price is too dear. You have been stripped of your dignity and she does not diserve to have your attention. I know you will not listen and I will say no more it is too painful. If I could reach out in cyberspace, I would give you a couple of three hard knocks to your head. It's good for you that I can't get at you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You mean you have to run around like a trained monkey to get your wife to give you some loving every 6 months? Now I know what the guys are talking about when they say they have to jump through hoops. Yours are flaming hoops.
> 
> STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, PLEASE. Even if she has sex with you, the price is too dear. You have been stripped of your dignity and she does not diserve to have your attention. I know you will not listen and I will say no more it is too painful. If I could reach out in cyberspace, I would give you a couple of three hard knocks to your head. It's good for you that I can't get at you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine,

I HEAR you and I think your are right... what I have a hard time with is if i just stop doing anything then I feel like I' not contributing to the family we have two kids I went to the store with them. My wife works very hard around the house and I try not to do more than 55%.

Please don't strangle me I do value your view and am considering doing exactly what you state. I know I'm too nice and too accepting. At least I get a sense of taking the high road in our marriage.... Its difficult as I don't want to be all over the map on this either. 

I am considering doing a full on 180 in the near future. I'm just trying to be the best father and husband I can be that's my overall strategy in addition to becoming a better man.

Believe me there is a tipping point and I'm getting very close to it. I'm almost there the longer this goes on. I'm patient but c'mon man.

I like seeing things through... I gave her through November last contact on our issue at hand, so I'll let that ride out with my current behaviors in place. December may very well change on a dime. In fact I think it needs too if she makes no sexual encounters possible.

Dignity involves doing the right thing always even in the face of adversity. She may not have dignity for me but I know I'm doing the right thing for my family. That gives me internal dignity.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

And 3 weeks later she has not made a single reference to your letter.

At least you have a few women telling you that you are sounding pathetic, needy and blind to what is happening to you.

Listen to you and these continuing back and forths and all you do is defend her and explain all the things you have done and she has not in one of your posts responded lovingly at all. The most you have hoped for and got, was she did not laugh in your face and repeat ILYBNILWY....

Pathetic......


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And 3 weeks later she has not made a single reference to your letter.
> 
> At least you have a few women telling you that you are sounding pathetic, needy and blind to what is happening to you.
> 
> ...


Yea guess I'm just pathetic for wanting to salvage my marriage.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I HEAR you and I think your are right... what I have a hard time with is if i just stop doing anything then I feel like I' not contributing to the family we have two kids I went to the store with them. My wife works very hard around the house and I try not to do more than 55%.
> 
> ...


All of those are noble sentiments but have you ever heard the term casting your pearl among the swine? When fine acts go unrecognized and unappreciated, you are justified in withdrawing them. Not things having to do with your kids but for your wife. I cannot for the life of me understand why you give her foot rubs for 20 mins? 

Sounds like she realizes that this is foreplay but she shuts you down when you are arroused. She must know that. How can she stand to do that to you? If I were not interested I would not allow my man to get all r hot and bothered and leave him to dangle in thin air. It's so mean. 

Dignity is not what you said - what you describ is the hallmark of character. Dignity is a healthy self respect and self love that guides you to self preservation. Keeps us from casting our pearl among the swine. 

Not doing too much means you do your part and give the other person room to do their part. If they don't budge don't step into the breach, tell them what you need them to do. This may sound selfish but I don't think you should give more than you get. 

It is difficult to calculate how much each person gives over a short term - it takes time and negotion to find a comfortable balance. So when I say give as much as you get I'm talking about allowing enough time and negotiation to talk place before taking an assessment. In your case you are too hot and your wife is too cold. 

I think you have a bad marriage because you are desperately unhappy and your wife is either emotionally blind, incredibly selfish or caught up in an affair. She may be a wonderful mother but I think she is a horrible wife. If what you say you do for her is accurate, then that's the only conclusion I can come to. 

You don't seem to be able to step back and cool things off. I am not sure why but your anxiety and desperation jumps out of the page. I don't know you but I want to give you a (((((hug)))) and tell you that as soon as you are ready to break the cycle it will happen. When you are ready to accept a loving woman in your life it will happen. That woman may or may not be your wife. 

You are a good man but you are not a good husband because you will not assume the leadership position in the family. You have allowed your ship to run aground while you over function as a servant to the 2nd mate. What kind of example do you set for your kids? Is this the model of a family they should see? 

Snap out of it. BTW I wouldn't strangle you just put a few bruises on your forehead to remind you to shape up every time you look in the mirror.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Not doing too much means you do your part and give the other person room to do their part. If they don't budge don't step into the breach, tell them what you need them to do. This may sound selfish but I don't think you should give more than you get. It is difficult to calculate how much each person gives over a short term - it takes time and negotion to find a comfortable balance. So when I say give as much as you get I'm talking about allowing enough time and negotiation to talk place before taking an assessment. In your case you are too hot and your wife is too cold.
> 
> I think you have a bad marriage because you are desperately unhappy and your wife is either emotionally blind, incredibly selfish or caught up in an affair. She may be a wonderful mother but I think she is a horrible woman. If what you say you do for her is accurate than that's the only conclusion I can come to.
> 
> ...


Catherine...

Thanks again...

I guess by definition right now I am in a bad marriage... that is hard for me to admit. Most all the rest seems normal apart from intimacy so I'd say its a 90% good one.

I probably need to step back like you say like I said I don't need much to be happy. Its just she has hit me where it hurts and I feel trapped. On one hand I want to be a great husband and father on the other I want to scream! It shouldn't be like this in terms of marital intimacy. 

My wife is a good woman... she just is not the best wife at this point. Her issue only affects me.

Breaking the cycle I guess should be my next step.

A couple questions of what ladies would suggest I do as my next step...

1. Do I talk to her again about it in December? By then it'll be 2 months since talking.
2. Do I just pull a 180 on Dec 1st since that is past the reality check deadline?
3. Do I insist on IC/MC/Dr visit?
4. Do I involve her mom? To talk about menopause like she said she would.
5. Any other great ideas?

One potential issue is I'm not 100% sure she read all of the reality check... I'm pretty sure she did just not sure.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Not doing too much means you do your part and give the other person room to do their part. If they don't budge don't step into the breach, tell them what you need them to do. This may sound selfish but I don't think you should give more than you get. It is difficult to calculate how much each person gives over a short term - it takes time and negotion to find a comfortable balance. So when I say give as much as you get I'm talking about allowing enough time and negotiation to talk place before taking an assessment. In your case you are too hot and your wife is too cold.
> 
> I think you have a bad marriage because you are desperately unhappy and your wife is either emotionally blind, incredibly selfish or caught up in an affair. She may be a wonderful mother but I think she is a horrible woman. If what you say you do for her is accurate than that's the only conclusion I can come to.
> 
> ...


Catherine...

Thanks again...

I guess by definition right now I am in a bad marriage... that is hard for me to admit. Most all the rest seems normal apart from intimacy so I'd say its a 90% good one. Almost like an apple with a hole in it... cut out the bad part and its still good to eat.

I probably need to step back like you say like I said I don't need much to be happy. Its just she has hit me where it hurts and I feel trapped. On one hand I want to be a great husband and father on the other I want to scream! It shouldn't be like this in terms of marital intimacy. 

My wife is a good woman... she just is not the best wife at this point. Her issue only affects me. I don't consider her horrible so you shouldn't either.

Breaking the cycle I guess should be my next step.

A couple questions of what ladies would suggest I do as my next step...what would hit you hard if your husband did it to you and make you consider changing.

1. Do I talk to her again about it in December insist on resolution?
2. Do I just pull a 180 on Dec 1st since that is past the reality check deadline?
3. Do I insist on IC/MC/Dr visit?
4. Do I involve her mom?
5. Any other great ideas?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think it is not a good idea to involve her family. You have not even been honest with your wife what will you tell her family? You want to sceam? Well scream then - let her know how much pain you are in. You pretense of happiness is hurting your chances of ever being happy with her.

You can not have a truly happy intimate relationship if you cannot reveal yourself. Why are you hiding what you feel from a woman who is supposed to love you? If she does not love you then she should say so. The fear of losing her love is driving you - if you made up your mind to let her go that would be more successful than what you are doing now. 

I think you should do 180 and MC & IC, ask her to join you but don't insist. If she does not want to go then you go. The MC may help you find your way out of this trap and an IC will help you to understand why you are self sacrificing. Don't wait do it now because you need it now. At this point think of the person most in need - you. Your marriage is not 90% good, if she were married to the kids maybe but if you are the one she is married to then it is more like 5% happy. It seems like 90% because you are pretending to be happy most of the time so you got yourself fooled. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I think it is not a good idea to involve her family. You have not even been honest with your wife what will you tell her family? You want to sceam? Well scream then - let her know how much pain you are in. You pretense of happiness is hurting your chances of ever being happy with her.
> 
> You can not have a truly happy intimate relationship if you cannot reveal yourself. Why are you hiding what you feel from a woman who is supposed to love you? If she does not love you then she should say so. The fear of losing her love is driving you - if you made up your mind to let her go that would be more successful than what you are doing now.
> 
> ...


So do I say i think we need to do IC and MC?

and if she says what I know she'll say... tell her I'm doing it without her and slip into an immediate 180?


What about dr?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes that's what I think but Trying what do you think. You wont do anything if you don't really take charge. What do you think would be best for you and your family? I ask you as a man can tap into a natural fount of singleminded decision making. Remember you have the balls I don't. Use what God gave or lose. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Yes that's what I think but Trying what do you think. You wont do anything if you don't really take charge. What do you think would be best for you and your family? I ask you as a man can tap into a natural fount of singleminded decision making. Remember you have the balls I don't. Use what God gave or lose.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well...

I'm going to take your advice if things don't improve... perhaps me alone going to counseling will make my wife realize things aren't as rosy as she sees. Including the 180.

I do think we are on the edge of a breakthrough but it'd be weak if I didn't enforce a reaction to her not doing anything I asked in the reality check in November.

Still looking decent for action tonite


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And 3 weeks later she has not made a single reference to your letter.
> 
> At least you have a few women telling you that you are sounding pathetic, needy and blind to what is happening to you.
> 
> ...


Don't be such an A$$. TTFO is trying to save his marriage and he certainly doesn't need judgemental people like you giving him grief. Sheesh. This is a SUPPORT forum.

He is not being pathetic at all. His wife is being pathetic. He's struggling to come to terms with something really painful. Why be so cruel?

What I think some of us are trying to say is that what he is doing does NOT work. In my first marriage, my husband jumped through hoops to keep me after I had a ONS. He did all the work to try to save the marriage. But the reality is that it was not his problem, but MY problem. If he had made me work to earn back his love, trust, and affection instead of giving it to me so freely after I abused it, I think I would have valued it more. I was a very different person then (11 year ago) and have a lot more clarity now, but in the state of mind I was in, I felt like my husband was the source of my unhappiness and because he never challenged me, it was not until after we divorced that I realized what I had lost. 

I do NOT think doing the 180 is only for infidelity. It is for whenever one spouse is not respecting and honoring their spouse. It helps to save marriages, not kill them, because in many cases, it forces the selfish, uncaring partner to view their spouse in a new light. They begin to realize what they are going to lose, they stop taking the spouse for granted, and they begin to work to get that person back.

TTFO - Guaranteed, if you did the 180 on your wife for 2 weeks, you would see a change in her. 

The 180 is not about being an *******. It's about practicing self care. So instead of walking around on eggshells trying to be superdad and superhusband so that your wife may start to like you again, you begin to take care of YOU. YOUR welfare becomes the focus of your days, not trying to please your wife. You can be a good dad and do stuff with the kids without her. Make plans to go out with your buddies and have fun! Don't hug her, don't kiss her, don't do stuff for her, don't tell her you love her, don't snuggle with her, just leave her alone completely. Let her come to you. Treat her like the cable guy - polite but slightly cool and distant. 

Once you shift the power dynamic, good things can happen. When she sees that you are not going to kiss her a$$ and grovel for scraps of attention (this does NOT work) she will begin to see that you are better than that. 

You have nothing to lose by trying the 180 for 2 weeks. Like a skittish animal, you have to let her come to you.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Don't be such an A$$. TTFO is trying to save his marriage and he certainly doesn't need judgemental people like you giving him grief. Sheesh. This is a SUPPORT forum.
> 
> He is not being pathetic at all. His wife is being pathetic. He's struggling to come to terms with something really painful. Why be so cruel?
> 
> ...


Thanks,

Problem is we don't kiss, I rarely hug already or snuggle, and I've already stopped the ILY

So most of what I could do is be shorter with her in texts and when I talk to her.

Stop trying to connect by listening so intently and validating her feelings?

Make myself lost during weekends etc.

Not doing as much around the house

Will she get the hint?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I also think you should tell her that YOU are going to IC. Say something like "I'm just not happy and I want to figure out what I need to be happy." This will make her sit up and take notice. 

And I think you do need IC. Your IC can help you learn how to be assertive, to voice your needs, to work on your self esteem and to be in your corner. It's the best thing I've ever done. And my hubby, who is a cop, also does IC. It has made our marriage AWESOME and made us stronger and happier as individuals. Do it!


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

But you are always approaching HER. You rub her belly. You give her the hugs. Don't respond to her texts at all. If it's something critical about the kids, take your time in responding and then be brief (one word answers). Don't start conversations with her. When she talks to you, be polite but distant and YOU end the conversation quickly and then go off and do your own thing. And yes, disappear on weekends. Take the kids out without inviting her. Make plans with your male friends to go out for beers or a game. When you come home, be happy and relaxed. Even if you go out to Starbucks for an hour to read the paper, it is good for YOU. You don't need to tell her where you are going. You can just say "out and about". 

She will eventually ask you what is wrong. Then you can tell her you are not happy with HER. You are not sure about how you feel about her. You are unfulfilled in your marriage. Then stop talking and let her respond. My guess is that she will start to worry that she will lose you. And she should worry because you can't put up with a loveless facade forever. Then she will ask what SHE needs to do to make it better.

When she does this, you have to make her EARN your love over time. Tell her you want MC but that you cannot make any promises.

This type of assertiveness is basically about you taking care of yourself, you being honest, and you owning your "truth" and demanding the love and respect you deserve.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Laurae,
This is flawless advice. Truly perfect. 

Trying2,
When I carefully listen to your posts there is always one theme that comes across again and again. FEAR. If it comes across to me over the internet it likely comes across to her. 

And what many/most people do in fear is they talk A LOT. And this is the WORST situation in the world for you to do that. The only shot you have is to follow Laura's advice below and let your WIFE decide if she wants to make an effort. 





Laurae1967 said:


> But you are always approaching HER. You rub her belly. You give her the hugs. Don't respond to her texts at all. If it's something critical about the kids, take your time in responding and then be brief (one word answers). Don't start conversations with her. When she talks to you, be polite but distant and YOU end the conversation quickly and then go off and do your own thing. And yes, disappear on weekends. Take the kids out without inviting her. Make plans with your male friends to go out for beers or a game. When you come home, be happy and relaxed. Even if you go out to Starbucks for an hour to read the paper, it is good for YOU. You don't need to tell her where you are going. You can just say "out and about".
> 
> She will eventually ask you what is wrong. Then you can tell her you are not happy with HER. You are not sure about how you feel about her. You are unfulfilled in your marriage. Then stop talking and let her respond. My guess is that she will start to worry that she will lose you. And she should worry because you can't put up with a loveless facade forever. Then she will ask what SHE needs to do to make it better.
> 
> ...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> But you are always approaching HER. You rub her belly. You give her the hugs. Don't respond to her texts at all. If it's something critical about the kids, take your time in responding and then be brief (one word answers). Don't start conversations with her. When she talks to you, be polite but distant and YOU end the conversation quickly and then go off and do your own thing. And yes, disappear on weekends. Take the kids out without inviting her. Make plans with your male friends to go out for beers or a game. When you come home, be happy and relaxed. Even if you go out to Starbucks for an hour to read the paper, it is good for YOU. You don't need to tell her where you are going. You can just say "out and about".
> 
> She will eventually ask you what is wrong. Then you can tell her you are not happy with HER. You are not sure about how you feel about her. You are unfulfilled in your marriage. Then stop talking and let her respond. My guess is that she will start to worry that she will lose you. And she should worry because you can't put up with a loveless facade forever. Then she will ask what SHE needs to do to make it better.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detail! I needed that.

So are footrubs wrong at this point....it is mainly how foreplay starts in the bedroom... it used to relax her and then i could move my hands up and eventually get it on.

I didn't always do that pretty much when she didn't stop me after a while.

Is this bad foreplay? She seems to need that to allow sex.

I never tried just starting to kiss her or something more direct. Almost always either foot rubs or prior back rubs would get it going. Never tried any other way in recent years.

I think she'd shoot me down quick if more direct.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Well shot down again this time only took 5 min at 7:30 "You know I'm not in the mood for a foot rub tonight" granted she was almost asleep when I came up". We had a good day thought things were looking up but no. She does have to get up at 4am though. 

So.. I decided after much of your advice ladies to start the 180 tomorrow (Laurae's version) with a brand new note when she wakes up.
I won't get up early to make her oatmeal or say goodbye and I'll stay at work through lunch at 4 all week. I'll still set coffee up (I have a heart)

I borrowed this from another poster...

*"I love you, I feel neglected, as much as I don't want to, I'm considering my options. I've made radical changes and they've gone unacknowledged, so I can only think you don't care. I'm tired of investing my love in a woman that doesn't reciprocate."
*
He said let it hang there... worked for him

Well I'm game.... so she'll get it in the morning along with the 180 change.
Do I just flip my off switch? Pretend like she cheated etc.

So what do you think ladies effective or should I do something else?

Better hurry I'm crashing in a few hours.
Should I sleep in my bed or guest room for effect?


Please I need pointers of what to do after this bombshell tomorrow.

Like do I just stop all affection until she comes to me?

Do I talk to her at all if she texts or calls?

Guess I'm opening a new uncharted chapter in this.

What about IC/MC just wait and see?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm strting a new dedicated thread on my 180.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm strting a new dedicated thread on my 180.


And you've pulled that thread too. How many threads have you now started and when it does not go your way, or you start losing it, do you delete?

Any update? Time to pull the plug on this charade of a marriage and look for an affair, since you are so desirable and your spouse has 100% disconnected.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And you've pulled that thread too. How many threads have you now started and when it does not go your way, or you start losing it, do you delete?
> 
> Any update? Time to pull the plug on this charade of a marriage and look for an affair, since you are so desirable and your spouse has 100% disconnected.


Hey they are my threads I can do whatever I want with them!

Affair out of the question on my end... I have integrity.

Sure, 

You want an update,

I am working with a "counselor" and it's been great. We together are approaching this from a different angle. Its personal right now between her and I. I feel really good about the help I've been getting and am moving in a new direction. Parts of the 180 remain in place so its a modified 180 approach.

I didn't feel the other thread was beneficial anymore so i pulled it since it didn't pertain to what I' doing now. Believe me I'm doing whatever possible to better my marriage and it feels good to have some personal guidance.

I'll keep you updated as results start to show... for now I'm going to keep he process under wraps because until it succeeds I have nothing to report... hope you understand.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And you've pulled that thread too. How many threads have you now started and when it does not go your way, or you start losing it, do you delete?
> 
> Any update? Time to pull the plug on this charade of a marriage and look for an affair, since you are so desirable and your spouse has 100% disconnected.


Hey they are my threads I can do whatever I want with them!

Affair out of the question on my end... I have integrity.

Sure, 

You want an update,

I am working with a counselor and it's been great. We together are approaching this from a different angle. Its personal right now between her and I. I feel really good about the help I've been getting and am moving in a new direction. Parts of the 180 remain in place so its a modified 180 approach.

I didn't feel the other thread was beneficial anymore so i pulled.
Believe me I'm doing whatever possible to better my marriage and it feels good to have some personal guidance.

I'll keep you updated as results start to show... for now I'm going to keep he process under wraps because until it succeeds I have nothing to report... hope you understand.

BTW My marriage is not a charade... its important to both my wife and I... that statement is quite offensive.


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