# friends with a known cheater?



## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

would you like it if your spouse was friends with a known cheater? 

does it matter if they are the same sex, or opposite sex?

what if they were friends before you even met them? 

how close is too close with someone who you know is a cheater?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

kokonatsu said:


> would you like it if your spouse was friends with a known cheater?


I probably wouldn't care. As long as my spouse was good to me, I don't really care about what other people do. It's their life. 



kokonatsu said:


> what if they were friends before you even met them?


I'd imagine I also had friendships before my spouse so it'd be weird to try to shut a friendship down, barring it wasn't harming my relationship.

Is your spouse the one in question? Have you talked to them about how you feel?


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

I am friends with one cheater. Her husband cheated on her three time so she cheated on him in revenge... with his bestfriend... multiple times and he does not know about it. 

I would not let her near my husband (she had already moved away anyways so that doesn't matter but if she lived close by there would be no meeting up or hanging out at her house) after I found out she was willing to sleep with her husband bestfriend. He doesn't care for our friendship anyways. He was actually co-workers with her husband which is how we meet. 

We were super close but I only talk to her on FB (about her husband is cheating again when it does happen). So I keep her at arms length now and I feel super awkward knowing both of them are cheating .

If my husband had a friend that was cheating I'd want him to keep them at arms length also and we wouldn't be hanging out in person.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I wouldn't want to be friends with a cheater or want my wife to be friends with a cheater.

They are best to be avoided. Cheating is an indicator of general dishonesty and bad character and probably not the only thing wrong with them.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Having any friend that has negative/bad tendencies is not healthy. There is always a risk of become like that person as well (as you spend time with them/around them). I think that is just natural human behavior (we become what we are around).

So no, being friends with someone like that would be unhealthy and a risk to one's relationship.

Think about it, if a person is willing to cheat on their love one (closest human to them).......what do you think they can/will do to a "friend". It should tell you that this friend is NOT to be trusted and probably BAD friend material.

As for single opposite sex friends. I simply don't believe in those and it's a boundary in our relationship. It's inappropriate and disrespectful towards your loved one.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

TurtleRun said:


> I am friends with one cheater. Her husband cheated on her three time so she cheated on him in revenge... with his bestfriend... multiple times and he does not know about it.
> 
> I would not let her near my husband (she had already moved away anyways so that doesn't matter but if she lived close by there would be no meeting up or hanging out at her house) after I found out she was willing to sleep with her husband bestfriend. He doesn't care for our friendship anyways. He was actually co-workers with her husband which is how we meet.
> 
> ...


Those are not friends though. Just people in your life.

But we all have different definition of friends I guess. To me, friend, is someone special that's VERY close to me. In general, most people would be LUCKY to find even handful of such people in their life.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Some people that have cheated in there life learned. Those are people I do not mind being friends with. The people that say they can justify cheating on someone is not the kind of a person I want to be a friend with. 

Every case is different. In the case of the woman revenge cheating on her husband with his best friend. Its clear she is just as messed up as he is and they probably deserve each other. 
She should have kicked him to the curb and found someone better. 

Clay


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

DoF said:


> Having any friend that has negative/bad tendencies is not healthy. There is always a risk of become like that person as well (as you spend time with them/around them). I think that is just natural human behavior (we become what we are around).
> 
> So no, being friends with someone like that would be unhealthy and a risk to one's relationship.
> 
> ...


so, you would also not be friends with drug addicts, thieves, or liars? or maybe be friends, but keep a distance? 

i guess I'm asking what level of integrity do you require of your friends?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kokonatsu said:


> so, you would also not be friends with drug addicts, thieves, or liars? or maybe be friends, but keep a distance?


I've been friends with all of the above and let me tell you. I was SO stupid and ignorant. I even cared so much about some of them that I tried to help them (drug addicts) and it came to hit me in the ass. The truth is, you can't help a person that is not willing to help themselves.

Glad I realized it and cut it off. It was not healthy AT ALL (quite the opposite)



kokonatsu said:


> i guess I'm asking what level of integrity do you require of your friends?


I don't really put much emphasis on friends to be honest with you. I have plenty, but they all have families/kids etc.....wife is my best friend.

But to answer your question. I would expect my friend to be a good person and not have unhealthy habits. How they treat their loved ones and relationship with them is usually a good indicator of that. Rest is just, getting to know the person/experience and building trust.

Friendships are no different than relationships. They require time and experience. You have to get to know the person well and they should probably EARN your trust and the label "friend".


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

TurtleRun said:


> I am friends with one cheater. Her husband cheated on her three time so she cheated on him in revenge... with his bestfriend... multiple times and he does not know about it.
> 
> I would not let her near my husband (she had already moved away anyways so that doesn't matter but if she lived close by there would be no meeting up or hanging out at her house) after I found out she was willing to sleep with her husband bestfriend. He doesn't care for our friendship anyways. He was actually co-workers with her husband which is how we meet.
> 
> ...


Well, in my case, she has been a friend of my husband since before I even met him, and I recently just found out that she has relations with married men (even brought one to my wedding, but he is a muslim, so "it's okay"). Originally, my issues with her weren't because she was a cheater, but I was just uncomfortable with that relationship, mostly because I felt excluded from it. So when I brought up my feelings about this friend, my husband disclosed that she was a cheater, and it further cemented my stance on "don't be her friend". 

Now, he hasn't done anything wrong, and I trust him 100% (not her though...) so I never asked him to cut her out completely, I just asked him to not seek out her company (whether facebook, phone or in person). 

whether all this happened because I'm jealous or insecure or what, I just feel that I want to protect our marriage from any negative influence (though I realize that's a hard burden to bear, pretty much near to impossible), but I just want to keep our marriage sacred and our boundaries strong.. so I ask him to respect that. He didn't until he called his good friend, who was actually his best man at our wedding, and asked his opinion, and best man sided with me (though it seemed to be more along the lines of "it's better to keep the peace and do what your wife asks", than "yeah, you probably shouldn't be friends with her"...)

anyway, I can't really stop thinking about it, but don't really have any where to vent/get outside opinions, even though this happened about a week ago. I need to get it outside of my brain.


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## Dredd (Apr 16, 2014)

Guilty by association. Show me your friends, and I'll show you your future. We naturally become like the people we're around. You were like your parents till you went to school, then you became like the rotten dirt bags that infest our school systems, etc.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

If my wife was friends with a cheater whether male or female, I would tell her I know of their reputation and want them to stop the relationship.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It makes no difference, as long as they aren't trying to influence her/me, and not asking for any complicity.

Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet. At least with someone who is known, you may be be to exert a positive influence.

Not everyone who does something wrong is a bad person in other ways, so I prefer not to judge too quickly. I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus is said to have interacted with sinners and prostitutes, and supposedly said something like "He who is without sin should cast the first stone".


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> It makes no difference, as long as they aren't trying to influence her/me, and not asking for any complicity.
> 
> Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet. At least with someone who is known, you may be be to exert a positive influence.
> 
> Not everyone who does something wrong is a bad person in other ways, so I prefer not to judge too quickly.


When it comes to cheating, I'm not sure if there is any reason to hold on on judgement.

Person has a choice if they are not happy in a relationship. They can accept it/and it's faults or they leave.

Cheating is NEVER a good option. Settle your 1st relationship/end it before you go off with another person.

Just me though


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

kokonatsu said:


> would you like it if your spouse was friends with a known cheater? *Um, no.*
> 
> does it matter if they are the same sex, or opposite sex? *No but, if it were a guy, I'd be all the more vigilant in terms of observing his interactions w/ my wife. In the case of a female friend, I'd be on the lookout for any requests for GNO's, lunch dates, etc where said friend would be present.*
> 
> ...


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> It makes no difference, as long as they aren't trying to influence her/me, and not asking for any complicity.
> 
> Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet. At least with someone who is known, you may be be to exert a positive influence.
> 
> Not everyone who does something wrong is a bad person in other ways, so I prefer not to judge too quickly. I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus is said to have interacted with sinners and prostitutes, and supposedly said something like "He who is without sin should cast the first stone".


yes, you are right. 

OTOH, flee from temptation, right? resist the devil, lest he devour you, right? 

it's not like we're trying to judge the cheater/sinner, but that we want to protect ourselves from sinning. In my case, my husband's female friend was a cheater.. if she were originally my friend, it would be less of a big deal, if his cheating friend were a man, it wouldn't be a big deal, but because they are different genders, there's reason to be a bit more cautious, no?


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

A very good and longtime friend of mine recently let me know he had started seeing a married woman. He followed with all the typical justifications while I tried to recover from shock. I can't say that I don't view him differently now. I keep the friendship hoping that he will eventually return from the dark side. Till then I don't want to hear anything about it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> It makes no difference, as long as they aren't trying to influence her/me, and not asking for any complicity.
> 
> Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet. At least with someone who is known, you may be be to exert a positive influence.
> 
> Not everyone who does something wrong is a bad person in other ways, so I prefer not to judge too quickly. I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus is said to have interacted with sinners and prostitutes, and supposedly said something like "He who is without sin should cast the first stone".


Not really looking to initiate a religious debate, but I'd point out that Christ's stated purpose was to counsel sinners and to draw them away from sin. He was very explicit in this. So... DUH... yeah, he pretty much surrounded himself w/ sinners. As he said, healthy people don't need doctors, etc.

He was also very explicit in letting his followers know that keeping company w/ serial, unrepentant sinners is unwise.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Psalms 1 
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If all of us were to avoid the company of "sinners", NONE of us would have any friends. Everyone has wronged another person at some point, but many reform or change, too. Even many megachurch pastors and televangelists have cheated, yet still have their congregations and friends. Most likely, many people on this site are particularly sensitive to this issue.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> If all of us were to avoid the company of "sinners", NONE of us would have any friends. Everyone has wronged another person at some point, but many reform or change, too. Even many megachurch pastors and televangelists have cheated, yet still have their congregations and friends. Most likely, many people on this site are particularly sensitive to this issue.


I'm not disagreeing with you. And due to that I have a simple rule.

Everyone deserves a second chance, but not third.


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## f_lyris (May 2, 2014)

All I can say about this is that a friend would never ask you to lie for them. And seeing as you have to lie in order to cheat, and this "friend" is a known cheater, it's not really a friend.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> If all of us were to avoid the company of "sinners", NONE of us would have any friends. Everyone has wronged another person at some point, but many reform or change, too. Even many megachurch pastors and televangelists have cheated, yet still have their congregations and friends. Most likely, many people on this site are particularly sensitive to this issue.


To do wrong and move past it, bettering yourself along the way, is a virtue. We all do that. We all "sin". The key is to recognize this in ourselves, and then resolve to do better. 

But to continue in misdeed (in this example, the *very same* misdeed), habitually, unrepentant, and w/o remorse is something worse. Believer or not, we can all recognize this.

This notion transcends Christianity. Or Islam, Judaism, Deism, agnosticism, atheism, or Flying Spaghetti Monster-ism, for that matter.



DoF said:


> Everyone deserves a second chance, but not third.


Yes! One of the posters on this site has a quote in his/her signature and, while I can't remember to whom it is attributed, it goes something like this...

"All cheaters deserve a second chance, but with someone else."

Slightly less forgiving but hey, it works.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

Not sure what a "Known Cheater" is? Most cheaters don't walk around with a sign that says "I'm a cheater." Most of them do it in secret so that no one knows - even the person they are cheating with. But if you mean someone that you’re close to that you know is or has cheated then I am guilty of remaining friends with someone for more tha 35 years that I knew was a serial cheater. 

I was friends with this guy since 8th grade - best friends throughout high school. He was not like that in high school at all although he only had a few short relationships. I actually had a girlfriend in 11th grade that did cheat on me.

But, in college my friend changed or just started to exhibit his alter personality that I never saw when he was younger. He actually turned from a kind of nerdy skinny kid into a tall handsome guy who was on his way to becoming a doctor - he has a genius level IQ. Was a medical doctor within 6 years of graduating high school and completed his residency by 10 years out. 14 years out of high school he was making $400K per year - this was in 1995.

I was his friend throughout all of this but I had moved away so we mostly just talked on the phone and I saw him maybe once a year. Of course I was married at the time. He would tell me of his cheating escapades and I was kind of intrigued back then - like wow your kind of like a rock star - problem was - he really thought he was on the same level as a rock star - big house - convertible Porsche 911, big boat, pretty wife, kids - he had it all going on so I thought. I would hear about what he did with these other women and just kind of laugh at him - and I would say I don't know how in the world you can do that to your wife - and he was like I just can't help it - I have all these women after me all the time and cannot resist.

However, by 1999 - he had completely lost everything - wife, kids, house, Porsche, and his medical license - he had become a drug addict (mainly cocaine) was writing prescriptions for himself - upper, downers, and his life just crashed.

Trying to shorten this up - but he hit Rock bottom - was in jail - came out flat broke - married one of his affair partners - wife number 2 - and was making $10 an hour in 2001. By 2011 he was worth a few million as he started his own company where he was making big money again. I kept in touch with him through it all and was his biggest cheerleader - then he told me that he was not happy with wife number 2 and had gone back to his old ways of affairs - this time I was like your are freeking dumb ass!! but, he just laughed again – he could not help it – my opinion - he was loaded with money and his head got big again. 

Then crash with wife number 2 who took him to the cleaners (she found out about his affair with a stripper) and actually got him charged with assault. As soon as the divorce went through he married wife number 3 - a stripper - had two more kids and then surprise surprise - she divorced him while taking huge amounts of money from him. During this time his business went under and he is now flat broke.

As I think back of all the discussions I had with him - I still do not think there was anything I could have said to stop him. I have read up on Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and I really think that is what he has. Of course he never even mentioned this disorder to me and I just guess that he probably was diagnosed with this (as he had all kinds of Psychological evaluations through the years as he was a recovering drug addict) - but from what I have read - BPD people usually will never accept that that is what they have. My friend just thought he was the most unlucky person in the world and took no responsibility for his actions (except he did say that he made a mistake in marrying the stripper - but did not know she was a stripper when they first met - I was like yeh right!!)

Well - I finally had enough with relating to my old best friend - he said something about my wife about three - four months ago and it was the hair that broke the camel’s back - I am done with this person forever - I give up - I just do not need this in my life anymore. Of course if you were to ask him - I am just another person who turned on him and am just not a loyal friend - another trait of a BPDer.

If I had it to do over again - I would have disconnect with this guy from the first time he turned into the cheater - but my character at the time I guess was not good enough and I do blame myself for that. I cannot believe my wife let me be friends with this person - it just shows she is a much better person than me.

Sorry for the book - but this subject hits home with me and is just so upsetting - because I really miss my best friend from high school.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

kokonatsu said:


> Well, in my case, she has been a friend of my husband since before I even met him, and I recently just found out that she has relations with married men (even brought one to my wedding, but he is a muslim, so "it's okay"). Originally, my issues with her weren't because she was a cheater, but I was just uncomfortable with that relationship, mostly because I felt excluded from it. So when I brought up my feelings about this friend, my husband disclosed that she was a cheater, and it further cemented my stance on "don't be her friend".
> 
> Now, he hasn't done anything wrong, and I trust him 100% (not her though...) so I never asked him to cut her out completely, I just asked him to not seek out her company (whether facebook, phone or in person).
> 
> ...


Opposite sex friends is always a bad idea. My husband does not have female friends and I do not have male friends. Even if we become friends with a married couple (meaning my husband is friends with the husband and I with the wife.) I would not make friends with the husband and my husband does not get friendly with the wife.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

DoF said:


> Those are not friends though. Just people in your life.
> 
> But we all have different definition of friends I guess. To me, friend, is someone special that's VERY close to me. In general, most people would be LUCKY to find even handful of such people in their life.


I have a few categories of friends not all of them are my BFF.


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## f_lyris (May 2, 2014)

Aspydad said:


> Not sure what a "Known Cheater" is?


When I say "known cheater" I mean someone who is cheating and has let you know about it. Cheating is lying, so such a person would be expecting you to keep their little "secret" with them, aka lie of omission. Unless of course you don't know anyone else in their life and they don't know anyone else in yours. In which case you aren't very good friends either. Your friend expected you to keep his dirty laundry from his wives, did you ever interact with them, di you ever have dinner or anything like that? I'd consider that an accessory to the lying I guess.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

f_lyris said:


> When I say "known cheater" I mean someone who is cheating and has let you know about it. Cheating is lying, so such a person would be expecting you to keep their little "secret" with them, aka lie of omission. Unless of course you don't know anyone else in their life and they don't know anyone else in yours. In which case you aren't very good friends either. Your friend expected you to keep his dirty laundry from his wives, did you ever interact with them, di you ever have dinner or anything like that? I'd consider that an accessory to the lying I guess.


Wife #1 - I absolutely spent time with her on many double dates. I was in their wedding. Not so much once he was a doctor and was having multiple affairs - I lived very far away y then.

Yes, I was the guy who he could tell everything to and I should have told him he was an absolute jerk for doing what he did - but, I did not. This was a long time ago - in my mind I always thought - even prior to them getting married that wife #1 must have known - I mean he was with so many women and our town was not that large - so I assumed she just loved him so much and / or she knew he was going to make lots of money - she just failed to understand (as did I) the he was definitely not mentally stable and in the end - would crash.

Accessory to lying? So you’re saying I was just as guilty as I did not blow up his first marriage? I have a hard time with accepting that - do most friends take information that they get in confidence and tell the spouse? Remember, I was early 20’s and this was definitely before TAM and the internet by the way. I was just an immature kid – even though I thought I had everything figured out – man was I wrong!! Accessory - I hope not!

I will say, I was guilty of a few things that he knew about me as well- like I would help him pick up women - we would be out and I would take the girl who I thought was prettiest - and he would take the friend - as his philosophy was doesn't matter what they look like - we would get these women back to his place - he gets it on with the girl in his room - and I would leave the other girl hanging - I could not cheat on my wife to be with these girls - mainly because I was just so picky about who I was with - not because of morals. None of these girls even came close to my wife to be, so for me - I would not touch them - why would I do that when I already had the hotest girl around?

Wow, this really sounds bad - I really was just a lost kid back then and am lucky as hell to have made it this far.

Wife number 2 - I did not know that well and by the time I found out he was at it agian - they were on the verge of war.

Wife number 3 - I did meet her - I just wondered why a 30 year old girl (who was beautiful by the way) would want a divorced 47 year old guy - then I thought - I sure hope she is not after his money!! - I did not find out she was an ex - high dollar call girl until after she had left him.


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## f_lyris (May 2, 2014)

Aspydad said:


> Accessory to lying? So you’re saying I was just as guilty as I did not blow up his first marriage? I have a hard time with accepting that - do most friends take information that they get in confidence and tell the spouse?


Well I don't know about "just as guilty" or anything about ranking wrongs or whatever. I would say though that if you are sitting at a dinner table and this woman is there enjoying your company and you know that her husband is violating his marital vows then yes you are lying to her by omission And on that note, when someone is cheating there is hardly any marriage to blow up.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I would consider them potentially toxic for friend material. Easy to vet in five minutes.
Sex would be an issue. I have no friends that are cheaters but my wife. I do think a great deal less of her.
I have met a few serial cheaters they were easy to identify and a$$es unless you are their target.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet.


Yep, for whatever reason folks on TAM seem to think that folks who stray want to turn all happily married folks around them into cheaters too. I didn't care about getting other guys to leave their wives when I was philandering about. Never even crossed my mind. Why would it? If anything cheaters are all about hiding what they're doing from _everybody_. Even their best friends. I'm not so sure all cheaters are as toxic to marriages as we make them out to be.

With that said there is one thing I can say that is a danger. If I saw an acquaintance or friend stepping out on his wife back then I would not have advised him not to go forward with it. I would have minded my business.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

kokonatsu said:


> would you like it if your spouse was friends with a known cheater?
> 
> does it matter if they are the same sex, or opposite sex?
> 
> ...


It makes the old saying very appropriate. Lay with dogs you get up with fleas.

Or, you are judged by the company that you keep.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

If their actions didn't affect you, leave it alone. 

Just because your spouse is friends with someone does not mean they operate in the same manner. 

We are human and make mistakes, I'm sure your spouse has a mind of their own and can make their own decisions.


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## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

The wife of my best friend regularly goes on GNOs with a woman who cheated on her husband before they got divorced. This woman also likes to drink to excess on occasion and can get very inappropriate. 

One evening my wife and I were out with my friend and his wife having a drink at a place not too far from where they live. While we were there a man came up to my friend's wife and began talking with her. When my friend asked who he was his wife told him this guy was someone she had met a few weeks ago when she was at this place with the divorced friend. It didn't seem to bother my friend but my wife and I sort of looked at each other and shrugged.

To me being friends with a person who is a cheater is one thing but putting yourself in a position to be with them in a situation where you are without your spouse, there is alcohol and other men/women plus the cheater's poor track record with boundaries is not something I would be comfortable with.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Besides, I suspect most people are friends with a cheater (or work with one or are related to one) and don't know it - yet. At least with someone who is known, you may be be to exert a positive influence.


It's one thing to associate with someone you don't know is a cheater yet, but another to associate with someone you KNOW is cheating. If I know someone is cheating on his or her spouse, I will speak up. If that person is not willing to stop, I do not associate with him or her any longer. That would be one I considered a friend or even relatives. And, yes, I HAVE shut out relatives because of their behavior. As for coworkers, you kind of have no choice but to speak with them at times... but you don't have to associate on a personal level. You can keep it strictly work related. 



Married but Happy said:


> Not everyone who does something wrong is a bad person in other ways, so I prefer not to judge too quickly. I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus is said to have interacted with sinners and prostitutes, and supposedly said something like "He who is without sin should cast the first stone".


I agree. Not everyone who does soemthing wrong is a bad person. Some do make rash decisions and are remorseful/repentant after. Those, I would help to continue on the straight path, staying honest. And, yes, Jesus DID say "He who is without sin cast the first stone."... In that same passage, He turned to the woman and told her that she had been married multiple times already, and the man she was with now was NOT her husband.... then He told her to "Go and sin no more."


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

kokonatsu said:


> would you like it if your spouse was friends with a known cheater?
> 
> *No!*
> 
> ...


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