# I'm angry! Is this my fault?



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I am new to boards and this is my first thread ever, so please take it easy on me.

I have been married for 22 years and have young kids. We got off to a pretty rough start in our marriage. Early into our marriage I became emotionally unavailable due to stress and a wife with some emotional and mental issues. During the first seven years of our marriage, my wife was angry all the time,verbally and emotionally abusive to me. We didnt have kids at the time so I thought no big deal, I can handle it. After seven years, she threatened to leave me. I convinced her to go to MC with me and she reluctantly agreed. We started MC together and went for about 6 months. She then started IC and continued off and on for the next 14 years.
About a year ago I discovered that I had a medical issue and that was one of the main reasons that I had been checked out emotionally. This problem has been fixed and since then, I am checked back in. Our marriage has been great, or so I thought, until the last few months. I _recently_ learned that my wife slept with her ex boyfriend two times whlie we were dating just prior to marriage. She tends to think that since it happened 22 years ago that its no big deal. I also recently found out that she had been talking to another man for at least a year via private messages on the internet. Of course they were "just friends" but she had been deleting the history on the computer and if I walked in the room, she would minimize the screen. How convienent. She also had several phone conversations with the man. She claims there were only a few over a year but of course there is no way to tell for sure.

I'm so angry right now and dont know where to turn. I know I was "checked out" early in our marriage but she was cheating prior to marriage. I also know that because I was checked out she probably felt the need to seek male attention elsewhere. 

Is any of this my fault? Do I really have the right to be mad? She is making me feel like this is all my fault and I'm not sure what to do with all of this recently discovered information. I feel terrible!


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It's old news to her, but not to you. You can feel however you need to feel. Cheating is a choice made by the cheater only, not the betrayed. All responsibility for that choice lies with the cheater, but a favourite tactic is to shift the blame, rather than face facts. You did help create your marital situation, but the choice to cheat was hers alone. The book Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass would probably be a good place for you to start figuring out how to cope.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

To be more blunt though, it is not your fault, it is normal to be angry. In fact you are on an emotional roller coaster now. Hang on, you will survive, you will be strong enough, things will get better, but it might not feel like it for a while.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks for the advice on the book. It has been a rough couple of months.


----------



## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

First of all this is not your fault. 

Would you have married her if you knew she was cheater?

You now know you married a cheater, so start looking into her past. She is still cheating so you may have to dna your kids.

Frankly, i dont think she loves you very much. Im sorry if thats cruel. You deserve better.

Find your strength and deal with this head on. Do not rugsweep. Do not rugsweep. Do not rugsweep.

Oh, and keep your head up. This is on her not you. She would have cheated on anyone. She is damaged.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm not understanding what this "emotionally unavailable" means. Please give some examples of your behavior.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Emotionally unavailable means that I was not giving her my undivided attention. I was not having deep intimate conversations with her about the meaning of life. I was there with her in the room hanging out. Sometimes after a long day, I would sit on the couch with her or on the porch with her and just be quiet. I was never really much of a talker but I was always there with her where ever she was.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Thank you for the advice illwill. What do you mean by rugsweep?


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Her blaming you for her cheating ways is a copout. Like a previous
poster mentioned, you BOTH are/were responsible for the 
atmosphere you created as a married couple.

You have every right to be angry. Don't let her make you feel
guilty. When cheaters want to cheat, they find a way to do so,
regardless of what you THINK you should've or could've done to
prevent it from happening.

Seems to me, having a fling with an old bf is something that
never should've taken place and she knows it. How convenient for
her to suddenly blame her mental state on you. It's sick, really.

Did her actions and emotional state make YOU cheat on her? No...
no more than your distant ways forced her to take her underwear off
for another man and hide it from you all this time.

One of the first things a BS goes through is the shoulda/coulda/woulda 
thought process. Don't do that to yourself. She is flawed my friend, terribly flawed.

The question is, what are you going to do about it?
Is your marriage worth saving? Is she willing to do the work needed to
try and repair the damage she's caused? Are you willing to forgive her for it?
Work together to build a better marriage?

I wasn't able to...

I would recommend going back to MC and finding someone who
specializes in infidelity. If they don't, find another one.

This isn't something that will heal itself and time is of the essence.
I'm sorry to say that it sounds like your ww is selfish and feels entitled
to walk all over you and blameshift. DO NOT allow it!

It will cost you your happiness and your marriage.
You must be willing to lose everything in order to save your marriage!!!

Also, she needs her internet privileges taken away, as she can't be
trusted anymore to be left alone while online. That means no more fbook, twitter, etc.
No more GNO's, meeting up after work w pals for HH. All of that, done.

Stand up for yourself and don't take the blame. You deserve better.
It may not seem like it now, but in time it will be in your best interest to
understand that much.


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Mortie said:


> Thank you for the advice illwill. What do you mean by rugsweep?


*RUGSWEEPING* – Rugsweeping is a form of denial. Either the Loyal Spouse 
or the Disloyal Spouse can do this, and basically it is named after the idea of 
sweeping dirt under the rug, so that it’s not really clean at all…just hidden! 
Same here. 

The issues in the marriage are not addressed. There is no real repentance by 
the Disloyal Spouse … or the Loyal Spouse just pretends that “now that the 
Disloyal is back everything can go back to normal.” 

*It’s fake.*


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I appreciate all of the posts. I do feel like she is blame shifting. I agree that I played a part in the dynamics of our marriage being "check out emotionally" and I will own that part. I still am very angry that she cheated and then kept the information from me for 22 years. I was not even given the opportunity to make a decision about our relationship at that point. She didnt tell me becasue she didnt want me to leave. Now that I have the information, its 22 years later and 3 kids later. Its a lot harder to leave now than it would have been with no kids and no marriage. I feel craped on. The decisions were all hers because she kept the info from me. I was decieved. I do believe that sometimes she uses her emotional and mental issues as a crutch.


I have some decisions to make now and they are hard ones. I am feeling a little screwed at the moment.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

You feel like she's blame-shifting because she is blame-shifting.

You were both responsible for the atmosphere in the marriage. She was verbally abusive, you were emotionally distant. I wonder how that cycle started? Did she yell and you withdrew or did you withdraw and she got louder?

In any event, that's an aside because infidelity is a separate issue. Cheating before marriage is not okay. She is minimizing it by saying it's in the past but by keeping it from you, she prevented you from making an informed decision of what your future would be together. That's 22 years of secrecy. Chatting online and having phone convos with this man is also cheating. It's an emotional affair.

You have every right to be upset and angry with your wife. Don't buy into her blame of you. While there are factors that make people more vulnerable to cheating, the decision, the actions, the choices are on them. She needs to take responsibility for that. Case in point - my WS is/was emotionally unavailable. He was also never as affectionate as I would have liked. Still, I never cheated. 

Since she cheated and got away with it for so long, I wouldn't be surprised if she's had multiple affairs. Without consequences, what would have stopped her?


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Mortie, it would serve you well to take some time to really
dig into the story of others from this site and what they've
gone through. It will give you a better idea of how to confront
the situation that she has created.

Well worth it.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Mortie said:


> a wife with some emotional and mental issues. During the first seven years of our marriage, my wife was angry all the time,verbally and emotionally abusive to me. We didnt have kids at the time so I thought no big deal, I can handle it. After seven years, she threatened to leave me. I convinced her to go to MC with me and she reluctantly agreed. We started MC together and went for about 6 months. She then started IC and continued off and on for the next 14 years.


Hope she's dealing with whatever this is just fine now.

I get the old cheating. I'm going to focus on the recent long term - at least - EA. It's very worrisome she doesn't get the severity of this. This must be dealt. Dismissing it as "just friends" with all the secrecy, the evidence clean up and obvious push to rugsweep it is less than promising.


----------



## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Mortie, how in the world did you find out 22 yars later?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Right now you need to get it in your head that you are confident to move on with out her.

She must see a confident guy that won't take sh1t and is not afraid to lose his marriage. Chicks dig confident guys, so no crying.

If she sees and weak and begging man that will do anything to save it then all the power shifts to her and she will continue the affair.

This tactic will get her to think twice in what she is about to lose.

Having this confidence (even if you have to fake it) will at least get your wife to second guess her choices.


I also highly suggest you go all James Bond on her and gets as much intel with regards to if it went physical..or is going to go physical.

Spying will also get the intel if this is fact an exit affair or just a fling. So bug her car and were she takes her call at the house.

Trust me you need the intel so you can make decisions based on facts and not what your old lady tells you....Lets face it her words aren't that reliable these days are they?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She has had at least a year connecting to OM, if they were just friends she would be hidding!

Way back when she had a choice to divorce you and instead of going thru with it she took the easy way out and made the choice betrayed you.

You guys both screwed up on the marriage 50/50

Her choice to decieve you was all on her own.

And BTW having been were you are and checking out for 13 years of a 23 yr marriage I can pretty much bet that this ain't the 1st time....you and me were just to checked out to see the red flags of infidelity thruough out the years.

Funny how not that we're both checked back in we now see all the red flags that point us to cheating....not really funny... sad actually!

Fo what it worth me and Mrs the-guy pulled our sh1t together and have been doing good for almost 4 years.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

illwill said:


> Would you have married her if you knew she was cheater?


illwill nailed it.

That's the question you should be asking yourself. If the answer is no, not only should you be angry, but you have to ask yourself if this is the woman you want to live the rest of your life with; given that you have already invested 22 years with her under her false pretenses. 

If the answer is yes, you should still be mad. Either way, you shouldn't accept anything less than her demonstrating remorse and transparency going forward. And I might add that you might want to keep a closer eye on her in the future. These two instances you sight, may just be the ones you know about.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks again for all of your great advice. I do plan on reading up on some of the TAM cheating horror stories. Greywolf, my wife and I were on our way home from a MC session that was heated. I confronted her about any possible indescressions in her past and she came clean. She was very remorseful and upset because she witheld the info and lied for the past 22 years. And by the way she is not a very good liar. She also told me that she had cheated on every boyfriend that she had in the past. Within the past few weeks, she has sent the man on the internet a NC letter, changed all of her passwords and given them to me. She has even told me that she is ordering up all of the available phone records from the phone company for my inspection. It seems like right now she is going to make an attempt to do the right thing. I am still not sure how I feel about this due to the deception and the cheating. If I had known about the cheating back then, there might have been a different outcome in our relationship. Since kids are in the picture now, I really have to put some serious thought into the situation. For the moment, she is pretty much on lockdown with the computer and phone since I am monitoring. She is a stay at home mom and rarely goes anywhere. I am able to monitor that also. I guess my question now is, how do I get past this emotionally?


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

And by the way, I still am highly pissed off. She seems to have cut me off emotionally and physically. And the strange part is that I am not the one who was cheating and private messaging. 
This is crazy!! I am paying the price for discovering it.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Mortie said:


> And by the way, I still am highly pissed off. She seems to have cut me off emotionally and physically. And the strange part is that I am not the one who was cheating and private messaging.
> This is crazy!! I am paying the price for discovering it.


 That's the sad part of a spouse cheating. The fall out from it is devastating to the betrayed spouse and he/she has to carry the wayward spouses dirty laundry around their neck.

Right now you have to take control of the situation. It will be your choice to either stay or go. If you choose to stay, you have to make sure that you have enough faith in yourself to work through it and learn to forgive and if you can't then make the divorce as clean as possible. Either way the options aren't easy to make so you have to decide which one you will be better off with. 

Yes you have kids and that's important but children can live a normal life if their parents divorce just as long as the parents are willing to do so. Your not divorcing your children and let them know that you'll always be there and love them. They will survive. I know this because I have children and they survived and are doing well.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Mortie said:


> And by the way, I still am highly pissed off. She seems to have cut me off emotionally and physically. And the strange part is that I am not the one who was cheating and private messaging.
> This is crazy!! I am paying the price for discovering it.


Are you in Individual Counseling as well?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mortie said:


> Emotionally unavailable means that I was not giving her my undivided attention. I was not having deep intimate conversations with her about the meaning of life. I was there with her in the room hanging out. Sometimes after a long day, I would sit on the couch with her or on the porch with her and just be quiet. I was never really much of a talker but I was always there with her where ever she was.


You married an abuser. Who convinced you, through the abuse, that if you didn't PERFORM 150% every day, all day, you were WORTHLESS.

Two decades later, after 20 years of abuse, you are incapable of understanding that you did nothing wrong. 

She will NEVER be at fault. Never. She will make sure of it. And if you DARE stand up for yourself and say YOU deserve decent treatment, too, guess what she'll do?

She'll leave you and tell everyone you were the abuser.

But won't that be a breath of fresh air? To be able to think what you want without fear of being yelled at? To be able to make plans for YOU without worrying if you'll get b*tched out. 

Think about it.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Another book for you: Living and Loving after Betrayal: How to Heal from Emotional Abuse, Deceit, Infidelity, and Chronic Resentment: Steven Stosny PhD: 9781608827527: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I am sorry I havnt been able to update. Its not easy to get on the computer and post because my wife is always home and I dont have one of those jobs that allows me to get on the internet alot. I have forced my wife to get all available phone records. The records that are available are from today back 18 months. She has been in contact with this guy for the past 2 1/2 years so hopefully I should be able to see much of what has been going on. I was out of town for 11 weeks last year and I suspect most of it was during that time period. I still cant believe this is happening. I must have stupid written all over my face.

Turnera, thanks for your post. I believe you are right. I know she is an abuser. I think she is aware of it too. I think she also has some kind of mental disorder. I am not sure exactly what it is yet but I am researching. I know she is definately attracted to men. She gets along better with men than women. I am not trying to down play the situation by any means but I dont think that she is as abusive as she use to be. Maybe because she is older?? But you are right about the fact that nothing can be her fault. I know that when I do stand up for myself, she always has a way of turning the tables on me.

I should have the phone records today or tomorrow is what they say. It might be a few more days due to the holidays I would guess.
She originally told me that she had only talked to this guy on the phone 5 or 10 times. We will see. Not knowing is driving me crazy. 

Thanks again for all of your good advice. I sure hope my gut feeling is wrong.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Philly, I am in IC as well along with MC. I sure need it at this point.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mortie, what else has she "forgotten" to tell you about?


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Of course she gets along better with men. Have you ever wondered why that is?


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Mortise,

I was you at one point. Always angry. Checked out. I'm not sure how I got there, but I think it was trying to bury the stress of life and kids and all the other shat we deal with on a daily basis. Till I got me some of my own "mental" in the brain.

It tore my marriage up too. Cheating wife. No trust. Gas lighting. All the usual crap.

But....you know what's awesome about the pills you are taking? There comes a point where you just realize...."well....who gives a flying fu(k. I can't change this, or force her to change. I'm going to work on myself. Get stronger. Get in shape. Stand up for myself. Be the best dad, ever. Be happy again."

Sometimes, when you truly reach this level, and start working on you...your spouse can see this and turn around. Here...it's called the 180. Unfortunately...99% of the betrayed here don't truly understand this at all and play this game in thier mind that if I do all these steps...she or he will come running back.

The truth is....'who gives a flying fu(k...". if I truly make myself better, then if she or he does come back....then "I" can decide what "I" want to do. For one...reconciliation. Which is always a good thing.

For me...well...it was a bit late for that...but....whatevs!

Still...you need to focus on you. Use those meds....they are awesome! Find your clarity first. Get to the "who gives a flying fu(k" point. Then, you think clearly and smartly. you become you again. Maybe...the you your wife first fell in love with.

If you reconcile? Great! I think that's always a preferred option. But if shat hits the fan and you can't....well...you will be more prepared mentally for all the other shat life will start to throw at you and still be "you"

Hope this makes sense to you....

Take care.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I appreciate the advice alphaomega, you are right, I do need to start working on me. I heard a little about the 180. I need to research it further. I'm still in shock over the whole thing. I've had friends that have been cheated on but I always thought " I'm glad that's not me. And that will never happen to me, we have a good marriage". I was so stupid for believing all of her bull sh.., I still look at her and think, how could you? I have felt like going out and doing the same sh.. to her. She is the jealous type and I would love for her to know how this feels. Nice dream but I couldn't do it. I'm too much of a rule follower. I'm still pissed!!! And still waiting on the dam phone records!!


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Mortie said:


> I appreciate the advice alphaomega, you are right, I do need to start working on me.* I heard a little about the 180. I need to research it further.* I'm still in shock over the whole thing. I've had friends that have been cheated on but I always thought " I'm glad that's not me. *And that will never happen to me, we have a good marriage".* *I was so stupid for believing all of her bull sh..,* I still look at her and think, how could you? I have felt like going out and doing the same sh.. to her. She is the jealous type and I would love for her to know how this feels. Nice dream but I couldn't do it.* I'm too much of a rule follower.* I'm still pissed!!! And still waiting on the dam phone records!!


Here you go...
180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

No More Mr Nice Guy

Good luck


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I finally got the phone records from the last 18 months. I haven't had a chance to go through them in detail yet but I can see that many of these calls were made when I was working late or working overtime. This just kills me. I thought I was doing the right thing for my family by working overtime to keep us in a nice house. And then when I'm away, POSOM moves in for the kill. 

She tells me that she was only trying to "help" him. Lol. Help him at the expense of our marriage? She says this POSOM has issues. She told me that the last time she had talked to him on the phone was in February. The phone records say the last time she talked to him was September 25, 2013 for at least an hour when I was working. This POSOM is also married. 

I am so frustrated right now. She is still acting like this whole thing is my fault. 

If a wife is talking to another man privately via phone, email or messaging, and discussing intimate details about themselves or about our marriage, is this not an EA??? She has told him things about herself and our marriage that she has never told me. I have no idea what else has been discussed. I'm positive that she is only telling me the stuff that she thinks is safe for me to know.

I am in the process of going through the phone records now. I was able to get from July, 2012 until December, 2013.

I greatly appreciate all of your helpful posts.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Mortie said:


> She tells me that she was only trying to "help" him. Lol. Help him at the expense of our marriage? She says this POSOM has issues. She told me that the last time she had talked to him on the phone was in February. The phone records say the last time she talked to him was September 25, 2013 for at least an hour when I was working. This POSOM is also married.
> 
> I am so frustrated right now. She is still acting like this whole thing is my fault.



Tell your wife she's helping him break up your marriage. Is that what she wants?

You will have to eventually talk to the OM's wife (OMW) and let her know what's happening. Do not tell your wife in advance. If you do, she will warn the OM and he will prepare his wife to expect a crazy man calling her. 

You may want to share your evidence with the OMW.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How many other married women is he working on? CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know Put him on there. But first check to see if his name is already there.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mortie said:


> She told me that the last time she had talked to him on the phone was in February. The phone records say the last time she talked to him was September 25, 2013 for at least an hour when I was working. This POSOM is also married.


It's time to expose.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

She is acting like an exposed cheater who is blameshifting, who is trying to come to grips with what she did and not wanting you and blaming you for interferring in her relationship.

I will also say that your wife (Not the POSOM) is the real issue. Do what you have to do to the POSOM, but if you read your posts you are giving this dude too much credit. Your wife could have cut him off at any time. He is not the one who moved in for the kill, your wife is 100% responsible for allowing him to have any thing to do with your marriage and her.

Your wife's reactions is not remorse. She got caught and I really believe she does not want to end the relationship.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She might also have an image in her own mind of what she is. (Loyal, faithful, good wife, etc)

You, however, are reminding her that her self-image is not the reality of her true self.


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I agree, tell the OM's wife. 

Affairs like the dark, shine the light on her affairs. Be sure to tell her family and yours. 

Let everybody know. Take the fun out of the cheating.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Also be sure to tell her parents and siblings and best friend. Ask them for help in fighting the affair.


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Ok, so the phone records show she lied and is still lying. What are you going to do? What is your next step?


----------



## radrobe (Jun 17, 2013)

Mortie,

This sounds very familiar. Expose to your and her family and to the OMW ASAP. 

Is she still saying it was an EA? How far away does POSOM live from you?


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Mortie- sounds like trickle truthing to me.

You say you have young kids. I strongly suggest a paternity test. It is quick, cheap, private and painless. She does not need to participate. Spend a few minutes on google looking at home paternity testing and you will have several options. 

She is clamping down on you because there is more to the story than you know.

Good luck
WD


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Mortie said:


> I am new to boards and this is my first thread ever, so please take it easy on me.
> 
> I have been married for 22 years and have young kids. We got off to a pretty rough start in our marriage. Early into our marriage I became emotionally unavailable due to stress and a wife with some emotional and mental issues. During the first seven years of our marriage, my wife was angry all the time,verbally and emotionally abusive to me. We didnt have kids at the time so I thought no big deal, I can handle it. After seven years, she threatened to leave me. I convinced her to go to MC with me and she reluctantly agreed. We started MC together and went for about 6 months. She then started IC and continued off and on for the next 14 years.
> About a year ago I discovered that I had a medical issue and that was one of the main reasons that I had been checked out emotionally. This problem has been fixed and since then, I am checked back in. Our marriage has been great, or so I thought, until the last few months. I _recently_ learned that my wife slept with her ex boyfriend two times whlie we were dating just prior to marriage. She tends to think that since it happened 22 years ago that its no big deal. I also recently found out that she had been talking to another man for at least a year via private messages on the internet. Of course they were "just friends" but she had been deleting the history on the computer and if I walked in the room, she would minimize the screen. How convienent. She also had several phone conversations with the man. She claims there were only a few over a year but of course there is no way to tell for sure.
> ...


Yes you have a ton of reasons to be mad!! Best of luck you guys sound like you have had a rough 22 years to me.


----------



## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She might also have an image in her own mind of what she is. (Loyal, faithful, good wife, etc)
> 
> You, however, are reminding her that her self-image is not the reality of her true self.


MattMatt,

Can you please explain why she (or any woman like her) has such image of herself in her mind? I too have faced this many times in my life and it is driving me crazy. 

How can a woman who has cheated several times on her innocent bf/h still claim like that?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

workindad said:


> Mortie- sounds like trickle truthing to me.
> 
> You say you have young kids. I strongly suggest a paternity test. It is quick, cheap, private and painless. She does not need to participate. Spend a few minutes on google looking at home paternity testing and you will have several options.
> 
> ...


In some jurisdictions such DNA tests would be illegal. Do check beforehand.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

akashNil said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> Can you please explain why she (or any woman like her) has such image of herself in her mind? I too have faced this many times in my life and it is driving me crazy.
> 
> How can a woman who has cheated several times on her innocent bf/h still claim like that?


At one time she was all of those things, yet made mistakes and slipped. However, some people cannot accept that they are now less than they were or less than they should be.

Partly it is blame shifting. "I am a good person. But I have done bad things. Therefore, my husband/wife must be to blame."


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

akashNil said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> Can you please explain why she (or any woman like her) has such image of herself in her mind? I too have faced this many times in my life and it is driving me crazy.
> 
> How can a woman who has cheated several times on her innocent bf/h still claim like that?


IMO, cheaters are one of two kinds: the User kind who just believes it's his/her right to take whatever they want; in that case, they are always right and anyone who doesn't do what they do is a sucker. To be Used. 

The other kind is the accidental cheater, who never planned to do it, but got complimented, paid attention to, pursued. These people give an excuse to themselves for every little 'well, ok, I'll talk to him/her' they make. Once, then again, then more, until they're in a full-blown affair. These guys have to convince themselves it's ok to do what feels so good - they have to believe they're still an ok person, so they justify, vilify their partner, make excuses...anything to still be able to look themselves in the mirror.

Of course, if the affair is exposed, it all falls apart like a house of cards, and they have to admit to all, what they did.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How is your fault for her deceit?

She could have put her big girl pants on and told you she is getting her emotional needs from some one else. Hell one would have to admire the courage to do so, no matter how painful it would be to hear.

But at the end of the day she is a liar and that is no ones fault but hers.

We hear/read it all the time about how a spouse cheats cuz of some neglect or some other crap...but why not have the balls to say "hey your not there for me I'm finding some one else". Instead these our wayward spouse go off and lie and cheat.

Hell if your going to screw me at least tell me....don't phucking lie about it and then come back and blame me. At least tell me I'm a POS **** spouse and your going to find some one else!

I mean really " you made me lie to you"!!!! 

Rant over.....


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

akashNil said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> Can you please explain why she (or any woman like her) has such image of herself in her mind? I too have faced this many times in my life and it is driving me crazy.
> 
> How can a woman who has cheated several times on her innocent bf/h still claim like that?


Many men/women think online flirting is meaningless. It's ONLINE I was just being silly, passing the time, geeesh. Not as bad as gambling, getting drunk, or etc etc.

I know guys that play the whole ONLINE flirt game all day at work and none of them think its cheating. It's like a interactive video game. 

As far as people who engage with people they really KNOW online not just a internet entity that is quite different and of course a actual physical affair definitely is.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Anything you do with another person that you don't tell your spouse about is cheating.


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> Anything you do with another person that you don't tell your spouse about is cheating.


I think about 90% of the world cheats if you really believe that.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

In what way? 90% of the world is hanging out with OS members without telling their spouse?


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> Anything you do with another person that you don't tell your spouse about is cheating.


My sister use to cover for me so I could sneak a second piece of pizza when his back was turned... or a bit of junk food when he was gone...

~ sammy


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh good grief, people. You know I'm talking about relationships. Come on.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I have recently gone through the phone records in detail. From July 1st 2012 to December 20, 2013, there were 71 phone calls including a handful of texts to a town 5 hours north of where we live. The majority of the phone calls lasted from 1 to 2 hours and all were while I was working or out of town for work. He even had the ba!!s to call her when she was driving to 15 hours to meet me. She still swears that "I was just trying to help him and his marriage." I guess his phucked up marriage is hers to fix?? Or so she says. She also told me that the last time that she had talked to POSOM by phone was about February 2013 but it was actually Sept of 2013. BIG DIFFERENCE! 

I recently found out that she had even told POSOM that she had cheated on me with her ex boyfriend before we were married. What the phuck??? I am the only dumb a$$ that didnt know? I am the one who is married to her and I am the one that DESERVED to know. This stupid MF that she met on the internet didnt deserve to know. I did!!!

I am strongly resisting calling him to let him know how I feel, not that he would give a sh!t. I know he is busy playing others with his feel sorry for me, I have a sh!tty marriage attitude. I DO know that she was as much or more to blame for this as he is. She could have cut dumb a$$ off but didnt.

I have been doing some research and I have found some articles aboud Boarderline Personality Disorder and some of the descriptions seem to fit her pretty well. I know her therapist has diagnosed her with PTSD. I believe the PTSD came from her childhood. Im not sure about the Boarderline, I am still researching that. I dont even know it Boarderline is somthing that can be treated or not. The articles that I read dont sound real promising.

When it comes to trickle truth, she is a bad liar so I can usually get the truth (or what I think is the truth) out of her when I ask direct qestions. If they are not direct or very very specific, she can lie because in her mind I am asking something else. Any adivce on this?

I appreciate all of the posts. Its a rough time.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

I'm willing to bet that they met. A 5hr drive is nothin for two horny people. Set up a poly....and watch her confess!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tobyboy said:


> I'm willing to bet that they met. A 5hr drive is nothin for two horny people. Set up a poly....and watch her confess!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And DNA test your kids to show how little her word means to you.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Is she showing any remorse or regret at all, or just blowing it off and expecting you to also?


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> I'm willing to bet that they met. A 5hr drive is nothin for two horny people. Set up a poly....and watch her confess!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP

Is it possible they have met in person? If so I think that's the next thing to press her on. You say she's not a good liar. Maybe you won't need a poly.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I know that a 5 hour drive is nothing. She is showing remorse for getting involved with this idiot. She says that she got sucked in to his drama and still swears it was not an EA or a PA but I think definately an EA at the least. She calls him an emotional vampire but she still swears up and down that it was nothing but her helping him with his phucked up marriage. 

I think she expects me to blow it all off due to the fact that the cheating was 22 years ago, (even though I just found out) and because she was trying to help him, it was not an EA. She has a strange way of looking at things. Sleeping with an ex 2 times 22 years ago doesnt constitute cheating because it was 22 years ago and telling POSOM about it a few months ago during 71 phone conversations doesnt constitute having an intimate conversation??
Am I stupid??

It stlll looks to me like she is a Boarderline Personality. Still researching...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Doesn't seem like cheating huh? :scratchhead:

"Gee my dear wife...then I guess it doesn't seem like those are really your bags I packed sitting by the front door...

And those don't seem to be divorce papers I rolled up and stuck inside the suitcase handle...."


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Ok, this is what I have done so far. I have control of her email account associated with her favorite Internet board. This is the board thats loaded with drama and where she met POSOM. If he emails or PM's her it will come to me. Her main email is now unlocked and can't be locked. (unless she gets a new account). I am monitoring all of her Internet activity on the computer and also the history. The computer history is no longer being deleted. Her iPad and iPhone no longer have passwords and will remain unlocked. I have found a way to monitor all deleted emails from all of our Apple products. (thank you Apple for making it so easy). She has agreed to total transparency. I have changed the passwords to something that only I know. I am also able to monitor her whereabouts during the day.

She is showing total remorse for cheating on me 22 years ago and then lying about it for 22 years. 

She still swears up and down that she was only trying to help the POSOM with his marriage problems. She insists that he said "you saved my life" by helping with his problems. She also said that he wanted to drive down to meet her and shake hands with her because she saved him. She swears it never happened. I'm not so sure about that. I was able to read a couple (due to time constraints) of his emails and they were very self centered and mostly about his problems. I'm sure there was more to it but I haven't found it yet. I do have his name address and phone number in case it is needed for the future. I have no way to contact his wife right now, I believe they are separated. (imagine that)

We are both currently in IC and both in MC together. My question is, do I have all my bases covered if I try to reconcile? Am I overlooking anything?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Polygraph. 

You need to know if this one instance was the extent of her cheating. My guess is no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read His Needs Her Needs together, talk about it, fill out the LB and then the EN questionnaires and do the work to address them.


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I forgot to add, I am reading No more Mr Nice Guy and Not Just Friends. She has already read Not Just Friends and scored a 5 on the test in the book according to her of course. 

We will definitely read His Needs Her Needs. Thanks Turnera, that's next on my list.

I will check on the polygraph next. I work close to that field so it shouldn't be a problem to get one done. Thanks Bandit


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sometimes by just gauging her reaction to just telling her you want her to take a polygraph you can glean alot. 

If she refuses, that is telling. 

If she agrees to go to one, she may give you a "parking lot confession" and admit to other infidelities when you arrive at the testing center. 

I would make reconciliation contingent on her taking one, whether she admits to other infidelities or not.


----------



## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Mortie there is a confrontational way to know if she did something physical with him or if she is still in contact with him.

the more easy way to find the truth is with a polygraph test, most of the times the truth is revealed before the test, cheaters almost always crack and confess while going where the test is going to be executed.

before actually arranging the test, you can throw a bluff and tell her that you already have appointed a polygraph test, ask her if she had something to confess because once the test have been taken you will not give second chances.

If she confess something like:

- Well we just meet once.
- Well we just kissed.
- Well we just fooled around.
- Well we just had oral.
- Well it was just once.

then tell her, "okey I will still keep on the appointment but now I will ask if it was really just: "a meeting, a kiss, one oral, one time"

and keep doing it until she confess the whole truth.

remember cheaters will normally confess first the less damaging of their actions, and in much less quantity than the real amount.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Is your wife a marriage therapist? What qualifications does she have to give advise to internet strangers? Oh right.....How to lie and cheat and keep it hidden for 20 plus years!!!

Set up the poly!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Tobyboy, No she is not a marriage therapist but she does give alot of marriage advice on a board that is somewhat like this one. And she does have a huge following. Im not sure why but there are a lot of people who will jump at the advice of someone who appears to have great knowledge of a subject. What they fail to realize is that not everyone is honest about what they say on a board and sometimes all you read on a board is just one side of the story. People will not always tell you the bad side or the truth about themselves in order to slant their story. For instance, would you take marriage or relationship adivce from someone on a board who you know has cheated in the past and routinely goes below the board (PM's) with members of the opposite sex, talkes with them via phone for hours at at time, emails and texts, meets with people from the board and then hides it from their spouce? Probably not? But if the same person left the cheating and the PM's, phone calls, texts and meetings out but at the same time appears to give out good or sound marriage advice, you might be more receptive to that persons advice. All I am saying here is that some people on boards are not always who they appear to be. Unfortunately, I do have the facts to back this one up.


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't understand how she's showing "total remorse" when it sounds like she's blame shifting, trickle truthing, still lying to an extent, and trying to downplay what she's done :scratchhead: I haven't read anything in this thread that makes it sound like she feels bad about anything other than getting caught (to an extent that you know of, from how you describe her I wouldn't be surprised if she has ALOT more skeletons in her closet). AND she admitted to cheating on every boyfriend she's ever had??? Why do you want to reconcile with her exactly? I don't recall reading anything about you loving her, staying for the sake of the kids, etc. Have you actually *seriously* considered leaving her??


----------



## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

This doesn't add up. There is more, a lot more.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mortie said:


> Tobyboy, No she is not a marriage therapist but she does give alot of marriage advice on a board that is somewhat like this one. And she does have a huge following. Im not sure why but there are a lot of people who will jump at the advice of someone who appears to have great knowledge of a subject. What they fail to realize is that not everyone is honest about what they say on a board and sometimes all you read on a board is just one side of the story. People will not always tell you the bad side or the truth about themselves in order to slant their story. For instance, would you take marriage or relationship adivce from someone on a board who you know has cheated in the past and routinely goes below the board (PM's) with members of the opposite sex, talkes with them via phone for hours at at time, emails and texts, meets with people from the board and then hides it from their spouce? Probably not? But if the same person left the cheating and the PM's, phone calls, texts and meetings out but at the same time appears to give out good or sound marriage advice, you might be more receptive to that persons advice. All I am saying here is that some people on boards are not always who they appear to be. Unfortunately, I do have the facts to back this one up.


You want to have great professional help then get the book written by a great professional. Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Does your MC have experience with PTSD? You have a powderkeg in your house now, since you have PTSD-like symptoms and your wife has PTSD. (You may recall that Shirley Glass points out in NOT Just Friends that most of us BS's experience the same physiological reactions that someone with PTSD does, and her method uses a "trauma model of recovery and healing"). If your MC is not experienced in treating and dealing with both PTSD and infidelity, you might not feel you're making progress because the counselor isn't dealing with the trauma that affects how both of you handle (and mishandle!) communication and conflict. 

You are BOTH now prone to misinterpretation and jumping to negative conclusions because of trauma - a recipe for disaster if this isn't recognized and addressed!

Also, in order for her to truly "get it," I highly recommend the book How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. It was VERY helpful. Most WS's just don't get what infidelity does to us, but many experience a light bulb moment when they read this short, easy to read book. I highlighted passages I especially wanted my husband to read.

You can access the whole book for free online too, but I think having your own copy on hand is preferable:

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/HOW_TO_HELP_11-06-10_FINAL_pdf-.pdf


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mortie said:


> I _recently_ learned that my wife slept with her ex boyfriend two times whlie we were dating just prior to marriage. She tends to think that since it happened 22 years ago that its no big deal.


Sure, to her it isn't a big deal. She was the one that f'd someone behind your back and not the other way around.

And don't let anyone tell you that its silly to be mad about something that happened back then. 




> I'm so angry right now and dont know where to turn. I know I was "checked out" early in our marriage but she was cheating prior to marriage.


First of all you ended up finding out you had a medical problem and got that fixed. And yes, like you said, she was a cheater before that.

So your anger is understandable. 




> I also know that because I was checked out she probably felt the need to seek male attention elsewhere.


What was her excuse for cheating then way back when?



> Is any of this my fault?


Absolutely not. She has proven she doesn't need some flimsy excuse to cheat. She just likes it. Seems she is one of those many cheaters who will always desire the attention from another man no matter how good or bad things are.




> Do I really have the right to be mad?


Absolutely. Even IF being checked out while dealing with a medical issue was an excuse, there is still the issue of her cheating when you weren't emotionally checked out before you got married. Her character is HER problem, not yours.




> She is making me feel like this is all my fault and I'm not sure what to do with all of this recently discovered information. I feel terrible!


Then ask her what caused her to cheat on you when you were dating. See what kind of flimsy excuse she puts forth. And if she simply says it was a long time ago, or that you were "only" dating, that's a cop out

She cheated because she has lousy character. She also let you marry her without knowing she cheated on you prior to marriage.

My x-wife did the same thing (notice the X part and consider it). She cheated while dating and engaged and I found out about 6 years after I married her. If I would have known the truth beforehand I would not have married her.

She can state whatever she likes about the state of our marriage, but when dating, engaged and everything was blissful and happy as we could ever be, she decided to keep her fickle character a secret from me.

So this isn't on you. Its on your wife and her lousy cheating prone character.

Have you considered divorce since this is an ongoing problem and not likely that she will lose her desire for strange?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mortie said:


> Emotionally unavailable means that I was not giving her my undivided attention. I was not having deep intimate conversations with her about the meaning of life. I was there with her in the room hanging out. Sometimes after a long day, I would sit on the couch with her or on the porch with her and just be quiet. I was never really much of a talker but I was always there with her where ever she was.


Seriously? This is her excuse? Especially after finding out you had a medical problem you needed to deal with, and did?

I've said it time and time again, cheaters will use just one itsy bitsy, flimsy "need" not being met to justify their cheating ways.

Honestly, I think you need to take this repeat cheating, blameshifting, gaslighting excuse of a woman to divorce court.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mortie said:


> And by the way, I still am highly pissed off. She seems to have cut me off emotionally and physically. And the strange part is that I am not the one who was cheating and private messaging.
> This is crazy!! I am paying the price for discovering it.


Then free yourself from the likes of this, and sorry, I'm just going to say it, b!tch!!!

Get a consultation with a good divorce lawyer and don't let her know you are doing it.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Mortie said:


> I have found some articles aboud Boarderline Personality Disorder and some of the descriptions seem to fit her pretty well. I know her therapist has diagnosed her with PTSD.


Mortie, if your W is exhibiting strong and persistent BPD symptoms, your best chance of obtaining a candid opinion on what you and your three kids are dealing with is to see a psychologist who HAS NEVER MET HER. Therapists generally are LOATH to tell a high-functioning BPDer -- much less tell her H -- the name of her disorder. If you are interested, I explain the primary reasons that therapists generally withhold this information from BPDer clients (and their spouses) at Loath to Diagnose.

Hence, when BPD is a strong possibility, it is important to see a therapist who -- not having seen her -- is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers. If you are married to a BPDer as you suspect, relying on _her therapist _for candid advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on _her attorney _during the divorce.

As to your W having a diagnosis of PTSD, I note that nearly 50% of female BPDers suffer from PTSD and, when you also include other mood disorders (e.g., bipolar, GAD, depression), that number rises to 80%. See Table 3. BPD typically is comorbid with one or two of those clincial disorders. Because these clinical disorders are covered by insurance but BPD nearly always is not, it is common for therapists to record the diagnosis for the clinical disorders without mentioning BPD -- even though the latter is far more serious and difficult to treat. As I noted earlier, there are several other reasons for withholding the BPD diagnosis from the client and her insurance company. I discuss those reasons at the link provided above.


----------

