# Your Partner's Number



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Does the number of people someone has had sex with impact whom you choose to date/marry?

A few married couples were discussing this topic the other night and the results were quite varied.

I'll start by saying for me it would absolutely be a deal breaker if the woman had slept with a significant number of men. I certainly don't want a virgin, but somewhere in the middle would be what I would look for.

For me, I value sex within the confines of a committed relationship. I have had many opportunities to have sex with many women- former touring musician here- but I never followed through with those situations because I am not interested in just having a "hole". 

I don't begrudge anyone who has slept with a large number of people or had multiple ONS. I know I would struggle with this, so I don't subject myself to the difficulties.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Does the number of people someone has had sex with impact whom you choose to date/marry?
> 
> A few married couples were discussing this topic the other night and the results were quite varied.
> 
> ...


I should have said the responses of the couples had ZERO to do with gender, which was really interesting to me.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

No, not at all really.

However if my wife had been a borderline nymphomaniac for instance when I met her then I would have had (I think) valid concerns.

I think, she's not sure herself, around 10 to 20 could be more could be less. She started when she was 14/15.

I'm more concerned with the person someone is now rather than what they have done before.


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## samwise182 (Feb 9, 2014)

it does concern me to know that the person I'm with was in love with or thought she was in love with others and wonder if someday it might be the same with us,thought it was love but wasn't,also wonder if I preform as good in bed and at least up to par in other areas as well,it's really just silly thinking though,we're together now and if there is some kind of problem I trust that she would tell me about it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think it is the emotional bond that holds marriages together. I am concerned when people focus so much on attraction or sex.

I can't handle uncommitted sex, either. I am just too sensitive.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

......I didn't think about "her number" when I met my wife. I had somewhat assumed that it was higher than mine ....because she was so beautiful ...and, I had such a low opinion of my 'looks'. But now ...thinking back on that assumption ...I'd say I was being shallow with that train of thought (if shallow is the right word?).

.....as it turned out ....my wife's 'number' ....was zero .....as was mine. 

.....I guess that her 'number' is important to me now ...because hers is now 2 .....while mine is still holding steady at 1.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

(((Hurtin Still)))


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't care about the number to a point. It wouldn't impact my decision to be with someone unless they show me that I'm just another number. I'd have a tough time holding someone responsible for the mistakes they made when they were in their teens and early twenties.Now if they were in their 30's,40's and up and still bed hopping I'd be concerned about dating them.

Dh never asked for my number so he doesn't care either.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't care about the number to a point. It wouldn't impact my decision to be with someone unless they show me that I'm just another number. I'd have a tough time holding someone responsible for the mistakes they made when they were in their teens and early twenties.Now if they were in their 30's,40's and up and still bed hopping I'd be concerned about dating them.
> 
> Dh never asked for my number so he doesn't care either.


:iagree:

Our respective numbers only really came up when I confessed how terribly low mine was.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> I can't handle uncommitted sex, either. I am just too sensitive.


....I too fall in that category. I had a few steady girlfriends (2 to be exact) before I met my wife. But nothing ever escalated to sex. I didn't consciously address that topic back then. But as I thought back on it later on ....I realized that a committed relationship was important to me before turning to the sex aspects. I know it's "old fashioned" ...but ...that's just the way I am. Kinda' boring I guess..?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Our respective numbers only really came up when I confessed how terribly low mine was.


There is nothing wrong with a low number, Wysh. You avoided a lot of baggage. Well done!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....I too fall in that category. I had a few steady girlfriends (2 to be exact) before I met my wife. But nothing ever escalated to sex. I didn't consciously address that topic back then. But as I thought back on it later on ....I realized that a committed relationship was important to me before turning to the sex aspects. I know it's "old fashioned" ...but ...that's just the way I am. Kinda' boring I guess..?


It's pretty healthy, if you ask me.

The only reason that it might be good to have had several partners is to realize, when you do meet "the one," that you aren't missing anything by just being with her.

Boring is _under-rated._


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'll admit my husband's high number was disgusting to me, probably because I think casual sex is disgusting. If I'm really honest about things it's because it made me feel like one in a long line and thus not particularly special. I've made peace with it, but ironically I wouldn't know about it if he hadn't felt the need to share all kinds of ex details I never asked for and didn't want. He has never asked about my past, which leads me to believe that it's not about honest sharing, but about trying to make himself look better. He was using it to make himself feel better because he was insecure about our age difference. This issue has been settled, but I wouldn't have married someone with that past if he wasn't such a wonderful man that was past that point in his life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't think the number is all that important, but I might have some concern if the _difference _is well into double digits. Our numbers were similar, so there wasn't any concern. 

We'd have had more concerns, perhaps, if one of us had very little experience, but that issue can be easily dispelled if the sex is good, enthusiastic, and creative - which it will hopefully be regardless of numbers.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I have always wondered what constitutes an acceptable 'number'.

At 48, I could give a fig what my partners number us.

I had a female colleague, late 30's now, happily married with a little boy, who was a party girl when she was young. She partied with the prince of Monaco, even made the tabloids apparently, followed rock groups etc. 

No one would ever, ever meet this woman now and by looking at her believe that she slept with over 400 men.

I'm guessing its a safe bet that people would presume that is a high number.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> No one would ever, ever meet this woman now and by looking at her believe that she slept with over 400 men.
> 
> I'm guessing its a safe bet that people would presume that is a high number.


It would be the best novel ever had she kept a detailed journal about her life and bedroom romps then published.Names changed of course.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I think the couple just needs to be open and honest with each other once the discussion starts leading towards marriage. This needs to be discussed at length and everything needs to be on the table and then it needs to be left there never to be brought up again.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Dh and I met very young..in high school. I was his second and he was my first....:awink:


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

over20 said:


> Dh and I met very young..in high school. I was his second and he was my first....:awink:


And why the wink...........


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

CharlieParker said:


> We're seemingly in the minority. She estimates her number was in the 70's (I'd call that high) while she's my only. After 20 plus years it hasn't been an issue.


I don't think my Dh would ever have dated me after being with 70 men...


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

The wink is for my DH who took my cherry....


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> It's pretty healthy, if you ask me.
> 
> The only reason that it might be good to have had several partners is to realize, when you do meet "the one," that you aren't missing anything by just being with her.
> 
> Boring is _under-rated._


......the 'number' never bothered me when we had met .....because the connection between us was all that mattered. We clicked ...complimented one another ...and that's what counted.

...... however, since her ONS, I obsess about it. It's likely because my ego was fragile to begin with ....and as such easily shattered. I also have no "point of reference" or comparison with regards to sex. So, that weighs on my mind ....amongst other things. 

...... I asked my wife ...quite recently ....if she was asked by a friend, or in some hypothetical medical history survey ...."how many persons have you had sex with in your life" ...what her answer would be. She said that her reply would be, "one".

.....I started to feel good about her theoretical answer ...until the damaged ego kicked in ...and then thought, "well, I wonder which 'one' she'd be referring to"?

.....sheesh!! I'm one messed up a$$hole.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> No one would ever, ever meet this woman now and by looking at her believe that she slept with over 400 men.
> 
> I'm guessing its a safe bet that people would presume that is a high number.


Oh. My. Gosh.

And she has no diseases? 

Okay, I guess she probably wouldn't tell you. But if you know it was over 400, she might have told you.

She and I really have a different internal structure.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ......the 'number' never bothered me when we had met .....because the connection between us was all that mattered. We clicked ...complimented one another ...and that's what counted.
> 
> ...... however, since her ONS, I obsess about it. It's likely because my ego was fragile to begin with ....and as such easily shattered. I also have no "point of reference" or comparison with regards to sex. So, that weighs on my mind ....amongst other things.
> 
> ...


We are _all _messed up, my friend. Did you see my Kink thread?

So she was with you and him? That's it? That's probably pretty good over a lifetime.

You told her if it happens again, you're out, right? A second chance is okay; after that you are a doormat.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> We are _all _messed up, my friend. Did you see my Kink thread?
> 
> So she was with you and him? That's it? That's probably pretty good over a lifetime.
> 
> You told her if it happens again, you're out, right? A second chance is okay; after that you are a doormat.


......yes ...she's been 'told' ...if that's the politically correct terminology. In the real world ...it might be considered a threat.

..... I know that what happened ....happened ...and can't be undone. I can forgive ...I know I have the capacity to do so. But in this case ...I need help ...from her ....that's ALL I'm asking for. I don't think it's a lot to ask for .... in the grand scheme of the betrayal's wide reaching impact, to ask for assistance from the one that hurt you .....to help you ...live again. It's not only for my benefit ....she'd get me ...again ...at the best I can be.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ......yes ...she's been 'told' ...if that's the politically correct terminology. In the real world ...it might be considered a threat.
> 
> ..... I know that what happened ....happened ...and can't be undone. I can forgive ...I know I have the capacity to do so. But in this case ...I need help ...from her ....that's ALL I'm asking for. I don't think it's a lot to ask for .... in the grand scheme of the betrayal's wide reaching impact, to ask for assistance from the one that hurt you .....to help you ...live again. It's not only for my benefit ....she'd get me ...again ...at the best I can be.


You are absolutely right to set conditions. And keep them up. 

What assistance are you asking for?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Such a thing doesn't matter to me - although I would be wary of a very high number only because I would not like to just be a number to that person. If it was in the past it wouldn't matter. If a man said to me - I've had sex with 200 women and am wanting to get to 500 - then it would matter.

I've never spent a moment fretting over my H number.

Hurting still - sorry to hear about your pain. That situation would be very hurtful indeed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I've known a lot of people who have split up marriages...and the ones who had low numbers split up much more often than the ones who had a few more.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> You are absolutely right to set conditions. And keep them up.
> 
> What assistance are you asking for?


....I want the truth from her related to the details of the ONS.

....I want to know how, who, where, when.

....I may want the "physical" details.

....I want her to realize that just because SHE says "it was 19 yrs ago, what does it matter now" ...that it DOES matter today ..still.

....I need her to read, research, learn about the impacts of her actions, specifically on a man.

....I need her to stop trying to put a time limit on my recovery. 

....I need her to realize that triggers are real. And as such she needs to be there for me as a reassuring soul that I'm not going thru it alone.

It seems to me that I've done most if the 'work' to get past this ....when I should have been relying on her efforts to make me feel as if I mattered to her as being #1.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Does the number of people someone has had sex with impact whom you choose to date/marry?


Not really. As long as they are committed to me, I don't really care who they slept with before. 

Also, I wouldn't want to hear about their sex life with previous partners. Not interested in hearing about that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh, HS. I remember you now. 

Well, you are where you are. It was a long time ago, but your feelings are your feelings.

I thought the ONS was more recent.

Best wishes as you and your wife deal with this.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> Oh, HS. I remember you now.
> 
> Well, you are where you are. It was a long time ago, but your feelings are your feelings.
> 
> ...


.....nope ...not recent. What was 'recent', was revelations of details of the ONS last year, that contradicted what I was told 19 yrs ago. Hence ...getting a " d-day 1.5 " ....so to speak.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

More triggers.......arghh


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Thunder7 said:


> More triggers.......arghh


Yep, but we have been learning through practice on how to work through them  They will probably never go away though.

I do wonder some times, is it wanting a feeling of superiority and bringing up the past erodes that?


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

And, like a moth to the flame, I will invariably find these type of topics and read them in their entirety.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



jld said:


> Oh. My. Gosh.
> 
> And she has no diseases?
> 
> ...


Clean as a whistle. And to be clear, I didn't sleep with her. She's very happily married. She was Nordic as well. I do believe that Europeans have a much more liberal and tolerant view of sex than we do in the states. Although I dont think that all Europeans sleep with hundreds of people.

I have known a number of what might be termed sexually promiscuous women who never had so much as an itch. Whereas I had a long term partner who got chlamydia due to a ph imbalance. And I dated a woman whose cheating husband gave her herpes.

I don't associate numbers with disease either.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How that, Deejo? Wouldn't higher numbers give someone more chance of catching a disease?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

One would certainly think. Riskier behavior certainly exposes more risk.

Just highlighting that there are always outliers.

My number is less than 400 for anyone curious.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I always figured that if a gal would sleep with me, she'd probably sleep with just about anybody.
Turned out it was true with my ex, only she waited until after we were married to prove it.
Experience has taught me to insist on any woman I sleep with show proof of a clean bill of health since I am willing to do the same.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I am very open minded when it comes to past numbers and TBH at my age prefer men that have had experience and are mature sexually. 

I don't equate sex with immorality instead I equate poor behavior and disrespect as being immoral. So a person could have had 200 partners but as long as they treated themselves and the other person with honesty then all is good. 

As for my number, I would tell if I had any idea what it was but it is not relevant so I have never bothered to count.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I shouldn't laugh, hookares, but you are funny. Lol.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Holland, do you think higher numbers give a risk for disease?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

jld said:


> Holland, do you think higher numbers give a risk for disease?


Not if people practice safe sex. People with low numbers can also get diseases if they are not careful.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Higher numbers do increase chances of contracting a std. Simple math. It is risky to have high numbers and also risky to not take precautions. Both contribute to risk.

If someone had hundreds of partners I would certainly be cautious with them. I wouldn't immediately rule them out, but I definitely wouldn't sleep with her until I was sure she was disease free and someone who had changed her view of sex.

Treating your vagina like a public urinal, for the temporary relief of men, is not a healthy outlook in my book. However, I don't hold someone's past against them when they have grown and changed from who they use to be.

400? GACK!!!!! How many football teams is that?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I have always wondered what constitutes an acceptable 'number'.
> 
> At 48, I could give a fig what my partners number us.
> 
> ...


As a coworker though, how well did you really know her?
I think an extremely high number like that indicates something going on in her head that was not positive, with the condition lingering to some extent into middle age, perhaps. There's no way I could be convinced that someone with that history "has it altogether" unless they had received therapy at some point.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Holland said:


> Not if people practice safe sex. People with low numbers can also get diseases if they are not careful.


Used right condoms fail about 3% of the time. In the 'real world' they fail about 15% of the time. 

Promiscuous sex, even with condoms, is still far riskier than a low partner count.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

For my wifee, if I told her I slept with 10+ women, she would be, not marrying you!!!

If I found out she slept with 12+ guys, nope, not happening either for me.

She slept with one guy, who fingered her. She laughs and says he got the blood and I am her first.

For me, I dated a few girls and only had sex with one.

My wife and I didn't want to marry someone who slept around.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Out of the eight of us at dinner that night, the person who had sex with the most people (30 or so) was completely fine with whatever the number was for a potential partner. Her beta husband, who had been with 6 or 7, was fine, although he gave me the feeling that he decided if he wanted to be with someone he was going to have to accept whatever number they had.

One of the other guys had been with 8 and he said he was okay with his partner having a number "around" that, but 20 would be "way too high". His wife said 10 was too high. 
The other people all said it depended on the age of the person, but 10 was about the limit for them. The woman said she wouldn't want to know.

I found it fascinating. Makes me think if something ever happened to my wife or we split up, I would never be in a LTR again. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Holland said:


> I am very open minded when it comes to past numbers and TBH at my age prefer men that have had experience and are mature sexually.
> 
> I don't equate sex with immorality instead I equate poor behavior and disrespect as being immoral. So a person could have had 200 partners but as long as they treated themselves and the other person with honesty then all is good.
> 
> As for my number, I would tell if I had any idea what it was but it is not relevant so I have never bothered to count.


Holland, just out of interest what is your definition of sexual maturity and experience?

I may not have a notched bed post but I regard myself as very sexually mature and very experienced.

When topics similar to this have come up it has been almost unanimous across the sexes that numbers of sexual partners ≠ sexual skill and pleasure.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Wysh, for me a man with experience and sexual maturity is not a numbers based thing.

It is a man that loves sex. Can discuss sex, can talk about what he wants, will ask/listen to what I want.
A man that knows his body, knows my body and wants to enjoy a healthy sex life.

I am late 40's and need a man that is sexually confident, I think this comes from his mindset not the number on his bed post.

I have never asked Mr H what his number is as I really don't have a need to know. We talk about sex, we are compatible in our wants and needs. He makes me feel safe and very importantly he expresses just how much he desires me.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Holland said:


> Wysh, for me a man with experience and sexual maturity is not a numbers based thing.
> 
> It is a man that loves sex. Can discuss sex, can talk about what he wants, will ask/listen to what I want.
> A man that knows his body, knows my body and wants to enjoy a healthy sex life.
> ...


Yes I thought that would be your response and I agree totally.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

jld said:


> I shouldn't laugh, hookares, but you are funny. Lol.


It's been suggested that humor along with being a reasonably good provider are my only attributes.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

hookares said:


> It's been suggested that humor along with being a reasonably good provider are my only attributes.


Oh, hookares, I am sure there is much more to you than that. Love yourself, man.

And those are two excellent qualities. Did you see India Ink's post on the Touching thread? The two qualities you have, plus physical strength, firm convictions, and seeming indifference to a female will get you wherever you want to go with her.

Check out India Ink's posts; there is a lot to learn there.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> My number is less than 400 for anyone curious.


:rofl: You're such a ladies man.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Thunder7 said:


> And, like a moth to the flame, I will invariably find these type of topics and read them in their entirety.


Same with me.

This subject has come up again somewhat with my STBW, and I have really been trying to figure out the why and how to the way I feel sometimes, because again, there is no jealousy, or thinking of her any less because of her high count.

I think a large part of it goes way beyond sex. I have been a part of her 38 year long life for two years, so really a small portion of it. I know it would be unreasonable to expect that especially with family and friends that the past not be reminisced about, and not just sex, but all of it. Vacations, major life events, funny things. I end up feeling more along the lines of I wish I was a part of those things, that it would be me they were talking about. The thing is, they don't spend much time reminiscing about the times her ex husband beat her, left for days on end and spending all the money they had while she was left with no car and two little kids. Told her how worthless she was. They'll talk about having sex on a balcony over looking Las Vegas, and leave out where he beat her bloody that same trip, or the threesomes she had with him, but leave out it was to try and control his cheating.

Why is it that the conversations can go there so easily, but what we have done sexually barely seems to get a nod, when I know we have the best sex she's ever had by a long shot.

She has gotten a lot better about keeping things like that to herself when I am around, because she knows how I feel, and I know ultimately the only thing that matters is how she and I feel about each other, and other people opinions really don't matter. I know everyone around us thinks I am far and away the best partner she has ever had, and she makes it very obvious to anyone and everyone that she feels the same way.

So I guess I would like to know why, when it comes to sex, I would feel any different. Why people around us would think any different, how is it that I can know in every oter aspect that I am the best, and people look at me like I am the best, that when it comes to sex I feel like people look at me as just another number?


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

MrAvg said:


> Would it matter to you if your SO had been in a long term committed relationship prior to you? The SO would have had sex many times, just with the same person.


That is almost exactly what happened with my W and me. My W was in two long term relationships before she met me (and was sexually active with both). One of the relationships lasted years, so I am aware that she had sex many times before she met me. (The same is true with me having sex many times with the partners I had previous to meeting my wife.) 

As I said, I am not, nor was I ever, looking for a virgin. My issue is with a potential partner having sex with many different people. To me, there is a character issue that I would personally struggle to move beyond. The need to feel special, the need to have a similar character or moral background as my partner is important to me. I made a point of having sex only with people I loved and was committed to in a long-term relationship. I would want the same in a potential partner. I'm not on some moral high ground over here, it's just the way I am personally wired.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

samyeagar..... I would be far more disturbed that she thinks it is fun to tell sex stories , enjoying them, about a man she is no longer with as well as one that abused her. There are many things you have said that don't indicate good mental, emotional health from your stbw. 

My wife had some crappy exes and she doesn't think it is great fun to even just talk to me about it, much less in a group, having a good time with it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I want to commend TAM for a moment ..for having a variety of sexual views and posters here.. Sometimes I feel like a fish out of water because my views are more conservative over the norm ....Yet I can't find a better forum... and I DO try....

Yesterday....I ventured to another Forum... thinking it might be an enjoyable place to post... 1st I noticed a beautiful thread on "Spiritual sex"... no replies, utterly ignored... 

Then another thread....a newcomer who was a virgin male, God Forbid he was disappointed his GF wasn't a virgin....he wasn't even judging her ...(but boy that is all the responders seen!)...he shared concerns as she tried to hide ...but then she did come forth....the immediate onslaught this man got for sharing his thoughts... someone might as well have taken a hatchet to his skull ...immediately told how Insecure he was...he was punishing her, laughing at the notion of hoping to find a virgin in this day & age... she needs to dump him....how it was NONE OF HIS BUSINESS..

It sickened me... it's like people can not hang with the understanding that not all of us THINK the same..or care about the same things.. 

I was pi$$ed and left a comment -that I had higher hopes for this forum but they were shot to hell...

My husband cared ---he would have rejected ME had I been with a variety of men -it's not cause he was insecure at all......he strongly believes you LOVE someone with commitment strings (forever in mind) before you sleep with them... any girl who didn't share that mindset would not have been a good match for him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I think a large part of it goes way beyond sex. I have been a part of her 38 year long life for two years, so really a small portion of it. I know it would be unreasonable to expect that especially with family and friends that the past not be reminisced about, and not just sex, but all of it. Vacations, major life events, funny things. I end up feeling more along the lines of I wish I was a part of those things, that it would be me they were talking about. The thing is, *they* don't spend much time reminiscing about the times her ex husband beat her, left for days on end and spending all the money they had while she was left with no car and two little kids. Told her how worthless she was. *They'll* talk about having sex on a balcony over looking Las Vegas, and leave out where he beat her bloody that same trip, or the threesomes she had with him, but leave out it was to try and control his cheating.
> 
> *Why is it that the conversations can go there so easily, but what we have done sexually barely seems to get a nod, when I know we have the best sex she's ever had by a long shot.*
> 
> ...


sam....Who is your stbw talking to about the past like this, and why is she doing it so often?

Why is she doing it at all?

No wonder you are hurt and confused by it.

As I've told you, my H's previous experiences are pretty far out...but he literally never talks about it, ever. If I want any details I would have to drag them out of him.

And quite frankly, if I talked about my past sexual details around him in our first couple of years together, he would have dumped me.

I don't think you are so odd for feeling the way you do, I think she is odd for talking about it so much. Why does she do that and who is she talking to? :scratchhead:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

hookares said:


> It's been suggested that humor along with being a reasonably good provider are my only attributes.


Glad to meet you, brother from another mother. 

Now stay off of my turf.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> Holland, do you think higher numbers give a risk for disease?


Of course they do.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you have a 1% chance of catching an STD on any given sexual encounter with a person whose bill of health is unknown to you.

That means a 99% chance of staying clean. Pretty good odds. Assuming every new encounter is statistically independent from the previous, after about 70 partners (or, if you prefer, 70 couplings with an infected partner) your chance of still being uninfected has dropped to 50%. Now it's a coin toss.

That's for a 1% chance of infection, which I just made up for example, but the math still works out regardless. Given enough partners or enough time, you will eventually land in more likely to be infected than not territory.


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

I think there was another similar thread about this.

A high number (20+) of sexual partners before a first marriage dramatically increases the likelihood of infidelity. It also has a strong correlation with border line personality disorders and a lack of "attachment" in all types of relationships.

I wouldn't veto a partner just because of their # but given the strong correlation with some bad outcomes (infidelity, abandonment, emotional distancing) I certainly want to know the number so I can make an informed decision and look very hard at those risks and whether I see them bearing out in my particular partners case.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think fear of disease is sometimes used to mask a fear of rejection or intimacy, when talking about it and "the real world of sex". I'm not making light of the reality of STD's, but honestly...it is a topic used to shame people with a higher partner count sometimes.

It isn't that we shouldn't consider them, but why do we throw the idea around at each other in here, where most of us are in committed 2-person marriages?

I know that some will not believe or understand this...but not all people with a high count are reckless, un-loving cads who care nothing for their bodies or their partners bodies (or feelings).

And as for the possibility of cheating...I think there are also studies that show that you have a 50/50 or LESS chance *no matter what your past was*.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think fear of disease is sometimes used to mask a fear of rejection or intimacy, when talking about it and "the real world of sex". I'm not making light of the reality of STD's, but honestly...it is a topic used to shame people with a higher partner count sometimes.
> 
> It isn't that we shouldn't consider them, but why do we throw the idea around at each other in here, where most of us are in committed 2-person marriages?
> 
> ...


I have seen a lot of virgin marriages go to crap when one or the other starts wondering what they were missing.

I think a persons current character is far more reflective of success regardless of past #.

i agree that not all people with a high number are callous sex machines. They do, however, view sex differently. I was a callous sex machine. I tried to remember my number recently and stopped counting when it approached 40 and that was by the time I was 19. My views changed when I met Mrs. Conan.

I am not the same person I use to be. I am still a sexual animal, I just pour all my wild lust into my sweet little unit.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



ConanHub said:


> samyeagar..... I would be far more disturbed that she thinks it is fun to tell sex stories , enjoying them, about a man she is no longer with as well as one that abused her. There are many things you have said that don't indicate good mental, emotional health from your stbw.


.....I have to agree. It sounds like she has a need to boast ....with zero thoughts for others feelings. And ...to boast / discuss someone that has inflicted physical hurt ....sounds like something deeper is going on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I am not the same person I use to be. *I am still a sexual animal, I just pour all my wild lust into my sweet little unit.*


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

:smthumbup:

Love this!


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm glad my H and I both have very low #s. Less good-ole-days Facebook exes to worry about. 

On a more serious note, I would be reluctant to date someone with a significantly higher or lower # than myself, because I would be concerned that their values might be a mismatch with my own. Not judging, just a question of compatibility.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

1-800-get-lost


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I have seen a lot of virgin marriages go to crap when one or the other starts wondering what they were missing.
> 
> I think a persons current character is far more reflective of success regardless of past #.
> 
> ...


Agree with this. I sometimes wonder if I might be more vulnerable these days.

Never strayed and don't think I will but I do have some regrets from yesteryear.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Number doesn't matter to me. It mattered back when I was a teenager with less than 5 partners maybe. Today? Meaningless. Never mattered to me how many she had been with.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Super high numbers tended to not attach easily and detach quickly. There was some of the "porcupine" psychological effect from being around women who did it. I guess if your not trying to love them and just get yours you won't get hurt.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

A partners number would not bother me unless she was that girl that had over 400 someone posted, yikes. But I respect people who have really low numbers yet at the same time I think it’s just as healthy to have a higher number. How else can you learn about sex and what you like if you don’t have it? I think sometimes people that only have 1 partner their whole life are just as likely to stray and wonder what it’s like with someone else as much as someone with a high number. 

I had a much higher number than my wife but when we first had sex I knew that was it for me and the connection we had. It's also why when we had our problems I was miserable cause I know what it can be.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

A very high number would be a deal breaker for me, as also a history of ONS. It would tell me that he possibly isn't relationship material, and I wouldn't want to invest in someone emotionally if this were the case. I don't take risks with my emotions. I value myself too much.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

It doesn't bother me if the numbers are high or low, for me having that connection is what counts not where you've been or what you've done. When I was single I had a number of sexual relationships with women which ranged from having one night stands through up to 3 month relationships till I would invariably pull the pin on the relationship for a variety of reasons if it lasted 3 months.

Whenever I was dating and married I have always been very loyal and faithful yet I can also say I have had sex with women without even remembering their names the following day, despite all of that I have no STD's.

As to my luscious wife although she had done everything up to penis in vagina intercourse before until me (we had sex 3 days after our first date when she was almost 26, I was almost 25). To think she missed out on all that enjoyment before meeting me. I have no problem with adults having sex it's what adults do so it's bound to happen that your partner will often have more experience than you be they male or female.

As to the idea of saving oneself from emotional heartbreak and not taking risks. That approach is no guarantor of a great relationship either. Virgin partner relationships can go south just as easily as highly sexed partner relationships.

For me life is too short to save oneself from heartbreak or risk the unknown, I like to be well informed in my professional life just as much as I do in my sexual life. I have been married to my luscious wife for just short of 15 years and have been having sex with her often for almost 18 years. We have a home together and a great life with a couple of kids 13 and under. Yet if my wife saved herself from the risk and didn't have sex with me despite my past which included a former wife and child as well (which she was told about up front) we would not be happy and together today. Regardless of the numbers of High, low or no previous partners, it remains a lottery as to whether a relationship/marriage will thrive or whither.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ConanHub said:


> *I have seen a lot of virgin marriages go to crap when one or the other starts wondering what they were missing.*
> 
> I think a persons current character is far more reflective of success regardless of past #.


 I can only speak for me & my husband....He has never wanted another...oh we talk about it ALL openly..these things flow....even when I wasn't as overtly sexual/ too much into the kids...he still says he never thought of another woman....it was always ME...these days he wouldn't have anything left for another...

And ME....these are my thoughts...sincere as I can give them...

I met him when I was 15. *The curiosity question*....

I can't say I am as Pure in my thoughts as my husband has been....I have wondered in a moment what it may be like ...(this was mostly during my "sky high" drive phase....Testosterone was upping my fantasies )....but I think that is normal, and I won't down myself for such thoughts entering my head. There never was another man -ever....He gave me his ALL.... even if he couldn't keep up ...and I love him dearly for that... If he pushed me away....hmmm ...that might have been a little dangerous.....thankfully... I married well....a very giving man who loves making love.. 

I enjoy watching a little porn (that started 5 yrs ago)... I am visual & fantasies are enjoyable... but the overwhelming play in my head...is going back in time, it still being him & I ....re-living a wilder / freer more adventurous younger years...more positions, going down on him on our wedding night (damn why didn't I do that!)... more places, things like that...what I feel WE missed (not what I missed)... it's always a WE in my head... due to some repressive thinking.. I wasn't jumping back then & he didn't push being the sensual lover he was, not really an adventurous Erotic.. 

I would even go as far as to say....because we've only been with each other...and how HIGH we hold this in our







's ...(others may downplay it's importance... but for us...we Up play how we feel ...that no other has graced him or I..

For this reason, I feel it would be like standing over a towering cliff , looking over...ready to plunge to the depths for the thrill of the fall....knowing if I jumped (was with another man)...my life, OUR lives, would never be the same as it was. That something so precious / priceless would forever be lost between us, something irrevocable, that we could never get back. 

How could I trample on that, it would be like ripping a piece of my own







out & what I have held near sacred for 30 yrs with this man, I could never look myself in the mirror again, or live it down to hurt him like that. 

So there is a another perspective...curiosity is so far less on those scales given how deeply I feel....But again -he keeps me satisfied..and yes, this is very very important. The grass has always been *Green* on this side of the fence. I asked him this a few yrs ago and he laughed adding "It was overloaded with fertilizer"..



> i agree that not all people with a high number are callous sex machines. They do, however, view sex differently. I was a callous sex machine. I tried to remember my number recently and stopped counting when it approached 40 and that was by the time I was 19. * My views changed when I met Mrs. Conan*.


 She took a BIG risk with you.. I seen too many women thinking they were going to tame the bad boy...the story doesn't always end so well ...as yours.

I guess both of our stories show -Love can carry - irregardless of inexperience or too much of it...Monogamy can be a beautiful ride .


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

My number is 1. My wife's is around 15-17 as best she can figure. I actually beleive it closer to 25-30 and she is lowering it to save my feelings. I don't care either way though. 

Although my lack of experience caused issues in our early marriage, her history did not. I feel her history is just that. History. It happened before we met and will never repeat its self. We have been married 21 years next month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think fear of disease is sometimes used to mask a fear of rejection or intimacy, when talking about it and "the real world of sex". I'm not making light of the reality of STD's, but honestly...it is a topic used to shame people with a higher partner count sometimes.
> 
> It isn't that we shouldn't consider them, but why do we throw the idea around at each other in here, where most of us are in committed 2-person marriages?
> 
> ...


I don't mean to shame anyone. For me, the first thought truly was the risk of disease. The second thought was the emotional connection, but I agree that when you meet the right one, it does not matter what either's past was.

I had an abnormal pap 9 months ago. I was worried. Dh and I have been monogamous since 1993, but I read that HPV can surface decades after infection. The man I was with before refused to use condoms, and being young and stupid, I allowed that. 

I know a woman who has survived cervical cancer, but barely. She even had to have part of her stomach removed, because of the spread of her cancer. Now she is on a limited diet. So, having heard her experience, cervical cancer just seems all too real to me.

Are you saying that even if a person has a high number, it is a matter of the safety of the partners, not the number? Quality over quantity, so to speak?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I could handle a number close to mine. But if it had been a high number, or even multiple ONS, that would have been a dealbreaker for me. Tbh, I'm glad I am the only one he has ever been with. I just wish I had waited for him. I was only with 2 before him, and they were actual relationships, not ONS, but each was only once.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can only speak for me & my husband....He has never wanted another...oh we talk about it ALL openly..these things flow....even when I wasn't as overtly sexual/ too much into the kids...he still says he never thought of another woman....it was always ME...these days he wouldn't have anything left for another...
> 
> And ME....these are my thoughts...sincere as I can give them...
> 
> ...


SA, you are certainly a sweetheart and I think your husband is great from your descriptions. I actually wish Mrs Conan and I had only been with each other.
You are right about her taking a risk with me. She is quite strong and determined however and she did "tame" this bad boy.

I was just commenting that a persons current character outweighs their past, virgin or not.

I raised my sons with the understanding that it would be better to marry a truly reformed prostitute than a dishonest virgin. Good character is the essential element.

Being married a virgin is totally awesome though and I am so glad we have your perspective here. I do think it is unfortunate that you and your man seem to be an endangered species. LOL. Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I wish there were not shame associated with being a virgin. 

We are all a bit different with what we can handle, or want.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Good character is the essential element.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

jld said:


> I wish there were not shame associated with being a virgin.
> 
> We are all a bit different with what we can handle, or want.


Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.


That is interesting. I guess I did not see it that way.

I think some people can have sex recreationally. Some people cannot. You can catch a venereal disease from just one encounter. That woman with 400 did not.

To me the issue of higher numbers is disease, but I am waiting to hear back from FW on that.

Do you feel judged, SB?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.


:iagree:

Nailed it.

It's the entire point of this thread.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Virgins are pressured to have sex and girls who give in often feel shame or someone tries to shame them
It is sometimes a crap sandwich either way. 

I know some people were just wild cause they loved it and if someone looks down on that then they could just look elsewhere. There is enough pain without inflicting shame on someone with different values.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

jld said:


> That is interesting. I guess I did not see it that way.
> 
> I think some people can have sex recreationally. Some people cannot. You can catch a venereal disease from just one encounter. That woman with 400 did not.
> 
> ...


No,I don't personally feel judged at this time. I'm comfortable with my past and it made me who I am which is pretty fantastic. If someone isn't ok with that,well,that's their problem now isn't it? 

I wasn't commenting on disease statistics, I've never been burned so I have no experience with STD's.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> No,I don't personally feel judged at this time. I'm comfortable with my past and it made me who I am which is pretty fantastic. If someone isn't ok with that,well,that's their problem now isn't it?
> 
> I wasn't commenting on disease statistics, I've never been burned so I have no experience with STD's.


It is always someone else's problem what they think of us. We can't change it, so why worry about it?

We just have to be ourselves in life.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Holland said:


> I am very open minded when it comes to past numbers and TBH at my age prefer men that have had experience and are mature sexually.
> 
> I don't equate sex with immorality instead I equate poor behavior and disrespect as being immoral. So a person could have had 200 partners but as long as they treated themselves and the other person with honesty then all is good.
> 
> As for my number, I would tell if I had any idea what it was but it is not relevant so I have never bothered to count.


:iagree:

In each of my marriages, both of my partners had a higher number than me. The ex wife - 1. My current wife - 10-15 more.

In both cases, the majority of their partners were casual. Actually, my ex wife's # were ALL casual. Add on about 10 guys she "fooled around with" (ie. oral), and it ended up that I was her first real sexual relationship. So even though her # was relatively low (5, if memory serves), she was also 16 when we met, and they were all casual, meaningless, and at times, demeaning.

My current wife is around the 20 area. Split pretty evenly between actual relationships (whether it's a few months, or a few years) and casual.

The difference to me is that my wife was trying, was capable of longterm relationships, and generally saved her dignity. Most of us have had casual sex, especially in that 18-25 age range. The majority of my wife's partners were at that time.

So I say "so what?" Some of us go through that exploration stage, which also involves attempting to have an actual relationship that goes somewhere, and sex is involved. Some (most) of us have also had casual sex or ONS at some point.

In both cases, my ex wife and my current wife were both still trying to figure out who they were. My current wife DID, and the last 10-12 years she's had 2 partners. Works for me.

Besides, when you get down to brass tacks, her # of partners between 14 (when she lost her virginity. To me, btw!) and, say, 28, was like 17 or 18. So that averages out to just barely more than 1 a year over that time period. Sure, there may have been a year or two in which is was 4 or 5, but even then... so what? It's not a new partner every week, or even month.

My guage isn't necessarily the number of partners one has had, it's the context, coupled with their age and maturity level. Honestly, if my current wife was 30 (which she was when we met) and was still screwing around like that, it might have been a different story. But she had settled down, discovered who she was by that time (in part thanks to the relationships she had, casual or serious), and she was "ready".

My ex wife, notsomuch.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> No,I don't personally feel judged at this time. I'm comfortable with my past and it made me who I am which is pretty fantastic. If someone isn't ok with that,well,that's their problem now isn't it?
> .


Not to dwell too much on this, but I really enjoy talking with people whose lives have been different from mine. 

The people I know who have been with a lot of people are a lot less naive than I am. They can handle a lot more than I can. I think they have a maturity and sense of reality I don't.

I personally could not have handled a lot of sex partners. But that does not mean I judge people who have. I think they probably have a strength I don't.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think men esp. feel shame for being virgins. They should not.

Again, we are what we are and we all have experiences each other can learn from.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Nailed it.
> 
> It's the entire point of this thread.


OP here, and you are incorrect. The point of the thread was to get some different perspectives on this topic, not to judge others. I was really surprised by the responses of the couples at dinner, so I wanted to pose the question here and see what the consensus was.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.


I'm assuming you are referring to me since you just about quoted me. You are incorrect in your assumptions.

For me, I wanted someone with a similar background, a similar level of experience, and a similar moral code. That is not to say my moral code is better, rather it is what I feel comfortable with. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this perspective. 

I'm not a believer in completely turning a blind eye to past behaviors, so I do look at how someone has behaved as an indicator (not the only one, of course) of what their behavior may be like in the future. There are many on this board, however, that seem to look down on people who can't turn a blind eye to someone's past behavior. Should I blast those people?

There is no need to judge. We all have a comfort level and a line we won't cross. Mine are different than yours as my experiences are different than yours.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I'm assuming you are referring to me since you just about quoted me. You are incorrect in your assumptions.
> 
> For me, I wanted someone with a similar background, a similar level of experience, and a similar moral code. That is not to say my moral code is better, rather it is what I feel comfortable with. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this perspective.
> 
> ...


LOL actually I haven't read the whole thread and never saw your response.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I'm assuming you are referring to me since you just about quoted me. You are incorrect in your assumptions.
> 
> For me, I wanted someone with a similar background, a similar level of experience, and a similar moral code. That is not to say my moral code is better, rather it is what I feel comfortable with. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this perspective.
> 
> ...


Also, my comment was directed at those who think people who are virgins get judged more harshly than those who had multiple partners. I feel they're both judged. 

Notice I haven't said anything about either side of the fence other than stating things I've heard folks say. It's because I really don't care what people do with their lives as long as they aren't hurting others.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> You are incorrect in your assumptions.


Actually, it's a story as old as time that people who have more than one partner, especially women, are a lot of times viewed as less than virtuous/chaste/moral/not as good/valuable.

The Madonna/Wh-0re complex idea has existed for a looong time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Actually, it's a story as old as time that people who have more than one partner, especially women, are a lot of times viewed as less than virtuous/chaste/moral/not as good/valuable.


But don't you think the reverse is true for men?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jld said:


> But don't you think the reverse is true for men?


Do you? 

IMO, as a whole, generally speaking, men are more celebrated in society for having multiple partners than women are. 

It's the old double standard.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Also, my comment was directed at those who think people who are virgins get judged more harshly than those who had multiple partners. I feel they're both judged.
> 
> Notice I haven't said anything about either side of the fence other than stating things I've heard folks say. It's because I really don't care what people do with their lives as long as they aren't hurting others.


Completely agree here. If someone prefers another with a larger number, more power to them. Same for the reverse. We all have our preferences as far as sexual experience. It doesn't make me right and you wrong, nor vice versa. We find what works for US. That's the important thing.

And, SB, you're right. I've seen both sides judged harshly. It's ridiculous. Now, with that said, even with my personal preference of a man with a low number, I might, at the very least, have CONSIDERED a man with a higher number. However, there would be other things I would measure with that. For instance, how long ago did he have all these other partners, and what caused him to decide it was time to look for a long term relationship. In the end, if he considered sex to be "no big deal", I could not get involved with him. That's just who I am. And, he would be better suited with someone like-minded.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Completely agree here. If someone prefers another with a larger number, more power to them. Same for the reverse. We all have our preferences as far as sexual experience. It doesn't make me right and you wrong, nor vice versa. We find what works for US. That's the important thing.
> 
> And, SB, you're right. I've seen both sides judged harshly. It's ridiculous. Now, with that said, even with my personal preference of a man with a low number, I might, at the very least, have CONSIDERED a man with a higher number. However, there would be other things I would measure with that. For instance, how long ago did he have all these other partners, and what caused him to decide it was time to look for a long term relationship. In the end, if he considered sex to be "no big deal", I could not get involved with him. That's just who I am. And, he would be better suited with someone like-minded.


exactly and I agree  It's funny when I think about my situation.DH is the one with a very low number and not a whole lot of experience within that low number (I believe your sexual experience is not based on number of notches but based on what you tried sexually with your partner(s) ) and I'm the one with the higher number and lots of experience within that high number. 
He doesn't have a care in the world for knowing my exact number or what I've experienced sexually. Yet I care about number to a point within the parameters you listed.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Completely agree here. If someone prefers another with a larger number, more power to them. Same for the reverse. We all have our preferences as far as sexual experience. It doesn't make me right and you wrong, nor vice versa. We find what works for US. That's the important thing.


:iagree:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Do you?
> 
> IMO, as a whole, generally speaking, men are more celebrated in society for having multiple partners than women are.
> 
> It's the old double standard.


Yes, that's what I mean. They feel judged for having a low number.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My marriage broke up due to my ex-husband's serial infidelity. 

To me, it matters less what the number is than when that number was reached and under what circumstances. A higher number doesn't bother me as long as those numbers were reached between consenting adults who weren't hurting or betraying anyone else in the process.


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## KeepingUpAppearances (Jul 14, 2013)

My husband would say yes since he was my first lover. He was concerned that I would have regrets and curiosity about being with someone else. He wanted to marry a virgin

I guess it didn't really matter to me. I would have like someone who didn't just sleep with anyone available. My husband definitely was the opposite of me. I wouldn't have dated a man that was super promiscuous.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Do you?
> 
> IMO, as a whole, generally speaking, men are more celebrated in society for having multiple partners than women are.
> 
> It's the old double standard.


Guys are subject to ridicule or diminished status by other guys for remaining virgins, and even by a large number of girls. I felt a great deal of this in my mid-teens and I can't even pinpoint a specific person or source of it. In a variety of often subtle ways, you are made to feel inferior for not having made it to home... and a large number are just lying about having done so. Do girls lie to one another over their virginity? In terms of male status, its very similar to treatment over other physical skills... say, being a good athlete vs being tubby and physically uncoordinated. I never experienced that, but I had close friends who did and it doesn't require overt mockery. Its more dismissive.

Some people often say otherwise, but the stud is viewed with high status by males and females alike in youth culture - for males, its "I wish I could do that" and for girls there is a social influence for "the guy the other girls want". Add in most female's preference for the male to lead sexually, and woe to he that is a virgin and is rightly nervous to pursue something he hasn't done before. As we all know, confidence is attractive, and its harder to be confident about doing something you've never done. So the average virgin male is generally less desirable. Myself and my HS friends had a clear sense of this from just about everyone but the holy kids who tried spinning it the other way with all their abstinence pledging. I personally couldn't get rid of my virginity soon enough.

Its reversed standards more than a double standard.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.





jld said:


> That is interesting. I guess I did not see it that way.
> 
> I think some people can have sex recreationally. Some people cannot. You can catch a venereal disease from just one encounter. That woman with 400 did not.
> 
> ...





Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Nailed it.
> 
> It's the entire point of this thread.





CharlieParker said:


> Shame is maybe not quite the right word but I was uncomfortable being a virgin. She's even said had she known she likely wouldn't have given me a chance. I did lie about it, by omission, for years and I do regret that.
> 
> I knew she plenty of partners, I never gave it a thought but then again I knew her well for 6 years.


Scarlett, Jelly, I hope I have never given you that impression on my ramblings on TAM. Because that is certainly not how I feel.

If anything I think the exact opposite of that, I applaud someone who was/is able to embrace their sexuality and give it expression in whatever way they felt best. And just a little jealous. 

I *was* more inclined to judge myself, especially as a young man. It got to the point where I was tying myself up in knots trying to work out what was wrong with me. I thought there was something broken in me that women could sense. And I then just gave up.


I eventually figured I was just plain ugly, a feeling that has been very hard for me to shake until the last five years or so and something that TAM has helped me with enormously. 


And I have seen the judging thing work both ways, whether 'she was a wanton slvt' is viewed more harshly than 'he was a wussy virgin' I don't know.

Similar to Mrs CP's statement to CP about perhaps not giving him a chance if she knew, I have seen statements on here that ladies would flat out not consider an inexperienced man. And also that some ladies would be suspicious, cautious, whatever of inexperienced men.
Why? Maybe like me they just needed a chance to shine?

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I could have found some girl, get her tipsy, worked some 'game' on her, told her I was her boyfriend or any other trick and bonked her brains out. What would that have made me? And what would I have made of her?
I just don't do that to people.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I'd never think you were being judgy,Wysh


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WyshIknew said:


> Scarlett, Jelly, I hope I have never given you that impression on my ramblings on TAM. Because that is certainly not how I feel.
> 
> If anything I think the exact opposite of that, I applaud someone who was/is able to embrace their sexuality and give it expression in whatever way they felt best. And just a little jealous.


Hehe. No judgement at all. You are way cool in my book.


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

Nope, doesn't matter to me.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

As a teenager, I always thought it was funny that girls tended to be dismissive of virgin guys, while at the same time sensitive to themselves being thought a sl*t for being sexual. That's quite a feat of mental gymnastics. (Damn right I was bitter!  :rofl

On the other hand, guys did have the impression that certain girls were seemingly "easy" - but from my male perspective, guys didn't use these reputations to shame women. It was more like the guys would shame each other or downing each other for having hooked up with the "easy" girl. The perception was that getting laid was accomplishing something, and you just beat the game by entering a cheat code. I perceived it as more a way of dismissing a guy, as in "big whoop, she gives it up to everyone" - you get no status. Contrast that with hooking up with the hot girl nobody can get - where the reactions are "Hell yeah bro, how'd you pull that off!?"

Relationships were largely meaningless... practice. Very few guys had realistic notions that these things were going to last... just melodramatic run throughs. I don't know what the girls were thinking, but from what others have shared with me, most guys just wanted sex and were eager to not be a virgin anymore (and I think even most of the guys who would say otherwise too) - and most just had to dance the girl's dance to get it. The "naturals" were no more virtuous... they just didn't have to dance. Girls wanted them regardless, and its for this reason that the "sex poor" often thought they were @ssholes. "Look how he treats her!! What's wrong with girls!? I'd treat her right (lies to self, still primarily motivated by getting laid)."

I doubt this has gotten any deeper since I left high school.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ConanHub said:


> *I was just commenting that a persons current character outweighs their past, virgin or not.
> 
> I raised my sons with the understanding that it would be better to marry a truly reformed prostitute than a dishonest virgin. Good character is the essential element*.


 I agree with you on this !! Just as the Tax Collector was more justified in the eyes of God over the Pharisee -who only appeared good on the outside but was UGLY/ detestable / pride filled on the inside...absolutely.

What someone is made of... our past experiences, no matter -unless one is a cold blooded killer......we live, we grow, we learn about ourselves...Thankfully....Character is something, no matter what we grew up with, or what we may have done...we have a choice daily to live it .. to change course if we want......we are our own pilots... Character is the most important of all..

I always enjoy meeting up with those who have walked both sides of something... I am always interested in what others have learned , their stories...where it has brought them. We all have them... 



jld said:


> *I wish there were not shame associated with being a virgin.
> We are all a bit different with what we can handle, or want.*


 There is definite shame today associated with it..and if you are a male, God Help you....I've sat with teens who talked about it ...how bad it is in school now days..the peer pressure is fierce....we learn to lie and hide who we really are.....for acceptance - to be part of the "In-crowd"... 



ScarletBegonias said:


> Is there shame associated with being a virgin? More so than being a female with multiple past partners? From this side of the fence people who were virgins or had a very low number appear judge those of us who were wild as young people. It seems people feel low numbers and virginity equal higher morals and better character. They always say they aren't judging but then go on to say things similar to "oh I chose my partner bc he/she had a low number which told me they were choosy,respected their body,and didn't separate love from sex." As though those of us who did have multiple partners don't possess those things too.


 I must respond to this. ..it's true.... I have a different experience... I have different feelings...I had different wants, desires and dreams over most young people... I also wanted to marry younger too. 

I remember how I felt as a Teen... those were hard yrs for me..I had to walk a very straight line...or I might not have a home...I even lost my best friend because I didn't want to start doing drugs & partying...

My views are not born out of thinking I was/am better than anyone else.. hell I was fvcking NOBODY... I didn't even feel loved growing up....if this is all you see..You just don't KNOW ME...*it was self preservation*.... I am a sensitive woman... as JLD made mention....."I personally could not have handled a lot of sex partners. But that does not mean I judge people who have. I think they probably have a strength I don't"...

Nobody walked in MY SHOES seeing how Sex was "used and abused"- destroying my own Mother...she had a nervous breakdown....she was the closest thing I had..she was ripped from my life....so if I take it to a higher level than most here can understand or grasp... it was because of something I lived...I vowed at a young age, that would NEVER happen to me... 

I wanted to save this for a man who WOULD CARE... if he didn't , if he belittled that -what I looked upon as LOVING -giving my all... I know that man would not be right *for me*...

I wanted "to be Loved" more than "experience"..I wanted something REAL, something I could count on...MORE THAN "Living it up - having FUN".....I wanted to know I was not alone in this world..... how many of you felt this way? Boys tried to sweet talk me...but their hearts were far from me... 

I am not going to down myself for being sensitive ... for caring about myself and my future...

...Speaking of Judging....is it really any different that the majority of posters who say they would never touch an inexperienced person...(like they are all prudes, ugly, obviously suck in bed)... then adding how they need the "test drive"...That sounds so loving, doesn't it....

If you weigh how many people here *care about "1st's"* in any threads of this nature *vs* those who feel ANYONE who cares is painted as insecure, judgmental , religious, living in the dark ages.... whose fence has more posters behind it SB ?? 

I can assure you -it's your side of the fence .... Do you think it's easy for me ..knowing how others feel...I know I am *not* liked here... hated by some...

... I try to not be rude to anyone here. 

Do we all have to think the same??? ...isn't this like Peer Pressure all over again.... 

It stings me when others put down those who care about 1sts...who are the sensitive Romantic types... I relate to them..I'm sorry, that's just the truth..... so allow me to be a voice for this side of the fence, as small as it may be..



jld said:


> Not to dwell too much on this, but I really enjoy talking with people whose lives have been different from mine.


 I also enjoy hearing others opinions, even when they are not mine, it helps me learn, but please allow me to give mine as well... and to not be offended by them. I married someone compatible with who I am... that's all we need in this life..


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ...Speaking of Judging....is it really any different that the majority of posters who say they would never touch an inexperienced person...(like they are all prudes, ugly, obviously suck in bed)... then adding how they need the "test drive"...That sounds so loving, doesn't it....Well,I've never said anything remotely like this and I wouldn't dare say that sort of judgment is ok.
> 
> If you weigh how many people here *care about "1st's"* in any threads of this nature *vs* those who feel ANYONE who cares is painted as insecure, judgmental , religious, living in the dark ages.... whose fence has more posters behind it SB ?? SA,I'm not comparing fences and I'm not going to feed into whatever this is. My only point was to say everyone gets judged. I've been VERY clear about that.
> 
> ...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am not going to down myself for being sensitive ... for caring about myself and my future...And people with more than one partner refuse to be painted as though they're insensitive and don't care about themselves and their future simply bc they made different choices.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
> 
> I am not going to down myself for being sensitive ... for caring about myself and my future...And people with more than one partner refuse to be painted as though they're insensitive and don't care about themselves and their future simply bc they made different choices.


I know SA is more than capable of defending herself, and SB, I have a lot of respect for you, and it does pain me a bit to see two people whom I greatly respect here feeling this way.

SA and I have talked a bit about things regarding my STBW, a woman with a significant partner count, and I think it helped change, or at least soften what she thought about that, and I am not sure she is being judgemental here, but maybe not communicating in the clearest of ways.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> My number is 1. My wife's is around 15-17 as best she can figure. I actually beleive it closer to 25-30 and she is lowering it to save my feelings. I don't care either way though.
> 
> Although my lack of experience caused issues in our early marriage, her history did not. I feel her history is just that. History. It happened before we met and will never repeat its self. We have been married 21 years next month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ray - just a couple questions because I find your story interesting. why the earlyprblems you mention? did she lack some patience, were you a slow learner or did she find it too awkward 'teaching' you things, was her greater knowledge of sex intimidating for you, other.....? again just curious - her sexual background vs. yours was very different.....


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My communication was putting the dreaded unnecessary focus on *my own WHY's - which not a damn soul can relate to* ...because they are not me! ...but I appreciate your giving me the benefit of the doubt anyway...Samyeagar.


Even though your relationship and mine have arrived through very different experiences, I can relate to a lot of the things that are important to you...most notably firsts. Firsts are something that are important to me, and with a partner who has the experiences that mine does, those are hard to come by, but I am not sure partner count necessarily translates into experiences as much as simply time. I revel in the firsts I have achieved with her...first PIV orgasm, first squirting orgasm, first rolling orgasms, first time making her O while driving down the road, and I have learned to be quite content knowing that I am her best in all the ways I was not her first.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I know SA is more than capable of defending herself, and SB, I have a lot of respect for you, and it does pain me a bit to see two people whom I greatly respect here feeling this way.
> 
> SA and I have talked a bit about things regarding my STBW, a woman with a significant partner count, and I think it helped change, or at least soften what she thought about that, and I am not sure she is being judgemental here, but maybe not communicating in the clearest of ways.


She doesn't need to defend herself,at least not to me. I don't actually feel any particular way currently.Just trying to point out we're all judged unfairly about our sexual choices. It's one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations that happen in life.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

jld said:


> Not to dwell too much on this, but I really enjoy talking with people whose lives have been different from mine.
> 
> The people I know who have been with a lot of people are a lot less naive than I am. They can handle a lot more than I can. I think they have a maturity and sense of reality I don't.
> 
> I personally could not have handled a lot of sex partners. But that does not mean I judge people who have. I think they probably have a strength I don't.


hmmm....well let's not go overboard. being with a lot of people can also indicate an unhealthy, insecure personality. seeking more partners = seeking more love (the real thing being absent in the person's early life. then the person never gets enough love and therefore never enough sex..always needing more. 

I agree that multiple partners and experiences is bound to teach the person some life lessons...both good and bad. though some ofthe bad lesons are better learned through the experience of others, rather than personal experience...


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

BTW....while I'm at it. I have no problem addressing the issue with promiscuous young men. Guys with high partner counts as they got out of high school, say, I recall as being some of the most insecure kids around. clearly running from "something" - not clear what. the more girls and the more drugs they experience, the faster they believed they were running away from....???. Trying to prove something, though never clear what, and they never did. But they needed to take as many risks as they could tolerate. one way to know when they had risked enough is the day they got themselves killed.....which a few of them did. Their "confidence" was a complete scam they managed to pull on some people...some young women, say.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Anyone who thinks that women who are virgins are judged to the same degree as women who've had a lot of partners are not living in the same world that I am.

Perhaps men are judged for having few partners, but I can't say I've ever read articles about it, or heard people talking about it, or in fact ever seen it discussed outside of TAM. Unlike the **** shaming of sexually experienced women, which is rampant. 

I have had very few partners and my husband has had even less because we got together very young. If I was single now, at 41, I'd absolutely be avoiding a man my age with no sexual experience. I don't see the point of comparing a man who has been in a monogamous relationship since his teens to one who has had a more common relationship history, and not found a more permanent partner until later in life. 

As Scarlet said, everyone gets judged on their sexual experiences. And the ones who are judged most harshly and with the most actual negative affect of their lives are women with a lot of partners.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And yet we have the most fun!













(ha...kidding....)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But to be totally honest...if I had been lucky enough to meet my current H at a young age, married him, had a pack of kiddos, and still had the great sex we have now? I'd pick that over having multiple partners in a heart beat.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Man, I hate it when I spot a typo but the post has a like on it. WHY MUST WE LOSE LIKES FOR EDITING POSTS TAM


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

We do?

I think they aren't there when you first make the edit, but then if you check back after a bit, they are back. 

Make your edit and we'll see, and if it is gone I will like it again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> But to be totally honest...if I had been lucky enough to meet my current H at a young age, married him, had a pack of kiddos, and still had the great sex we have now? I'd pick that over having multiple partners in a heart beat.


Thanks for saying that, FW. Speaking for myself, I always feel a little inadequate for not having had more partners. That may the minority opinion, but it does exist.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> BTW....while I'm at it. I have no problem addressing the issue with promiscuous young men. Guys with high partner counts as they got out of high school, say, I recall as being some of the most insecure kids around. clearly running from "something" - not clear what. the more girls and the more drugs they experience, the faster they believed they were running away from....???. Trying to prove something, though never clear what, and they never did. But they needed to take as many risks as they could tolerate. one way to know when they had risked enough is the day they got themselves killed.....which a few of them did. Their "confidence" was a complete scam they managed to pull on some people...some young women, say.


That wasn't my perception of them at all. The guys that I knew who were getting laid like tile did so because they could. They were playing the field and living it up. Most of them were very social, participated in athletics of some kind, came from upper-middle class families, drove nice cars (thanks mom and dad) and were college bound frat types. Most were quite likeable - albeit a little shallow seeming, good looking, affable guys who had no interest in getting tied down. Few of them I knew where excessively risky or doing drugs other than alcohol. They were rarely in relationships and they always had girls.

I didn't get a sense of insecurity or running from something. Everything seemingly came easy to them. If anything, they had an attitude of plenty.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Man, I hate it when I spot a typo but the post has a like on it. WHY MUST WE LOSE LIKES FOR EDITING POSTS TAM


You missed out the question mark.

Just sayin'


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I don't understand this fixation with numbers that some people have.

I can sort of understand how a guy might be embarrassed at a low number but what does it matter how large someone's number is?

"I love you so much, and love the fact you've had four sexual partners."

"I'm so glad I married you."

"What's that, you forgot a few and it's more like ten?"

"You damn harlot, you slapper, round heeled batch."

"We're getting divorced, I'd never have married you had I known."

:scratchhead:

She is still the same woman you fell in love with.

It is all down to insecurity in my opinion.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I've always enjoyed the variety and benefited from what I learned from multiple partners over the years. My number was pretty low going into my first marriage (I was not a wild teen/20-something), and only modestly higher going into my second. Since then, though, it's more than tripled for both of us. And we're pretty happy with that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sex really does make some people insecure.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

WyshIknew said:


> I don't understand this fixation with numbers that some people have.
> 
> I can sort of understand how a guy might be embarrassed at a low number but what does it matter how large someone's number is?
> 
> ...


Some of us believe it is very special to wait for one special person to give our ALL too....does everyone find this so outrageous ? I find it very very Romantic... if this makes all of us insecure... I'm not going to change anyone's opinion... but I don't feel that's what it's about....it's about how deeply we attach the sexual expression and it's personal meaning to us...

If I had 3 boyfriends before I met my husband, just hanging out having a good time, but they had no plans to marry me -and I KNEW this is what I ultimately wanted.. sleeping with them all...in this way I would feel I denied the most worthy man of something that he may care about...that I cared about... as I wanted to give him that gift... I get that many of you wouldn't give a sh** but some men do... I wanted that type of man... 

I am of the belief the one who wants to share their whole life and love with you , grow old with you...should get more than anyone else before them... it's very old fashioned... but try to understand it's important to some of us...


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Good thread. Truth on both sides of the "fence".

I am honest with myself however to admit I am WAY too insecure to be ok with 400.

400?!!!

If you even give someone a ten year period of nonstop banging to attain this number, that is getting close to a new person every week(0.769 new people a week to be exact). For ten years straight.

Homey don't play that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just saying "sex makes some people insecure" is not a dig at those people, you guys....nor does it mean necessarily that if you have a low partner count and are happy about it, that you are insecure.

Sex really DOES make people insecure! That is not an insult or a bad thing it just simply common. It is a highly important and personal topic tied in with our values, self-esteem, and life choices. It can also go very badly and we can be emotionally hurt or even physically hurt by it when it does. Of course it has the potential to make people insecure.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some of us believe it is very special to wait for one special person to give our ALL too....does everyone find this so outrageous ? I find it very very Romantic... if this makes all of us insecure... I'm not going to change anyone's opinion... but I don't feel that's what it's about....it's about how deeply we attach the sexual expression and it's personal meaning to us...
> 
> If I had 3 boyfriends before I met my husband, just hanging out having a good time, but they had no plans to marry me -and I KNEW this is what I ultimately wanted.. sleeping with them all...in this way I would feel I denied the most worthy man of something that he may care about...that I cared about... as I wanted to give him that gift... I get that many of you wouldn't give a sh** but some men do... I wanted that type of man...
> 
> I am of the belief the one who wants to share their whole life and love with you , grow old with you...should get more than anyone else before them... it's very old fashioned... but try to understand it's important to some of us...


I get that, understand it and support your decision.

But don't you think it a little hypocritical of (for instance) a guy who has had three sexual partners in life to get all snitty when he finds out his wife has had 10, 15, 20?

What I'm trying to say SA in my own clunky way is that to me it is the love you have for someone that counts far more than whether they have had no, one, ten or a hundred previous partners.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some of us believe it is very special to wait for one special person to give our ALL too....does everyone find this so outrageous ? I find it very very Romantic... if this makes all of us insecure... I'm not going to change anyone's opinion... but I don't feel that's what it's about....it's about how deeply we attach the sexual expression and it's personal meaning to us...I don't see it as being insecure at all. I actually believe it takes courage and massive willpower to stay a virgin til the right one comes along.I know personally I wouldn't have possessed the willpower.I wouldn't have made it to nearly 30yrs old as a virgin (my 'one' didn't show up in my adult life til I was in my late twenties) Then of course throw mental illness in there and I was pretty much screwed on controlling urges LOL
> Do you feel people with more than one partner don't deeply attach sexual expression to love?
> 
> If I had 3 boyfriends before I met my husband, just hanging out having a good time, but they had no plans to marry me -and I KNEW this is what I ultimately wanted.. sleeping with them all...in this way I would feel I denied the most worthy man of something that he may care about...that I cared about... as I wanted to give him that gift... I get that many of you wouldn't give a sh** but some men do... I wanted that type of man... It makes sense to not sleep with men who have no intentions of spending a lifetime with you if that's your goal.Doing it any other way would just wind up hurting you.
> ...


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> I don't understand this fixation with numbers that some people have.
> 
> I can sort of understand how a guy might be embarrassed at a low number but what does it matter how large someone's number is?


And herein lies the issue of retroactive jealousy. As has been discussed many times on this site 'jealousy' is actually an inaccurate term. It's not jealousy of your partners past. But, it's something that eats away at your core, preoccupies your thoughts. Why? If I had that answer I wouldn't have that issue. 

I think at it's core it is insecurity; with yourself, with your partner, with reality. If I was involved with someone with a highly checkered past I would be preoccupied with what that person had done, do I measure up, am I special in any way. Hell, if it was given away like it was nothing before why SHOULD I feel special because she does it with me? 

I know I'm rambling a bit. I can't really collect my thoughts at this moment. But, RJ has been shown to be a form of OCD, so again, telling someone to just get over it (Wysh, I know you didn't say this, but it is a common recommendation) just does not work. If someone could not worry about the things that haunt him, even though they're in the past and have no direct relevance on today, wouldn't they? Of course they would. But RJ is not voluntary. No one asks to feel this way. Trust me, I know.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Bob Newhart-Stop It - YouTube


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RJ may not be voluntary (like OCD) but it can actually be re-channeled and managed.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> RJ may not be voluntary (like OCD) but it can actually be re-channeled and managed.


You are correct.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thunder...have you seen the video I posted? It is hysterical. I think you might enjoy it.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Thunder...have you seen the video I posted? It is hysterical. I think you might enjoy it.


That was pretty funny.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

WyshIknew said:


> I get that, understand it and support your decision.
> 
> *But don't you think it a little hypocritical of (for instance) a guy who has had three sexual partners in life to get all snitty when he finds out his wife has had 10, 15, 20?*



I don't feel the answer to this can be boxed as easily as many would like it to be....the Hypocrite question...I say it depends....

Remember the Six sexual views thread ...because we don't all view sexuality through the same perspectives or lens ...it compounds our misunderstandings with each other.... sure we all LOVE / crave this pleasure ride... we all ultimately WANT SEX (or something is wrong with us !).. but we don't all share the same intentions, or boundaries with it.... as the author of the book laying all of this out said here...

"“Rival views of how sex matters in our pluralistic society often mean that there are few shared understandings, conventions or rules of engagement,” she says. “It is little wonder that there is so much pain arising from misunderstanding & so many disappointed expectations in the sexual realm.”

We can share a VARIETY of these views, even ALL of them!... but 1 is primarily at the forefront --like this illustration -in the middle with the others on the side lines....if that makes sense... I know it does for me.. I have the Romantic view in my center -with the others on the side... 












> *1.* *Covenant View* - Sex forges a permanent bond between 2 people...a representation of God’s covenantal relationship, it is a life-uniting act.. the Becoming of "one flesh" meant for marriage only.
> 
> *2*. *Procreative View* - Be fruitful & multiply
> 
> ...


 Back to the Hypocrite evaluation... 2 scenarios....

*1*. I feel IF such a man held himself back and only engaged sexually in relationships with commitment strings (*Romantic view*).... and his new partner didn't feel that was of great importance/ or necessary .. (last 3 views).....then Yes.... I can understand WHY a man would have a problem ... and I would not consider such a man a hypocrite... as again, it comes down to how a person views this most thrilling and beautiful act... what it represents to them personally ....we want to believe it has* the same meaning *to our new partner... this can be called into question ...depending on our pasts...

*2.* If he was just an introverted wanna be Playboy (why his rank is so low at 3).... however... and his engagements were of no greater strings over hers or maybe he even had a lasting relationship out of that....then of course he would be a hypocrite - to lay any snittiness at her feet.... because...really.... what* cause* does he have to judge her... (does he not see his choices were identical- he just had less access or luck in the game).... If his number was HIGHER....and he still had a problem....he is one who believes in the whole '*Double standard*" thing...which I do not agree with... in this way, one can call me a feminist even. 

Yet some still deal with *Retroactive Jealousy*....even if they don't look unfavorably of a woman's past...(Samyeagar comes to mind).... it can trip them up none the less...I am of the belief these men are geared more sensitive...(in this way it may be bad but in other ways in the relationship , these men give more than the norm- or so I would feel, so it's a double edged sword)..

Experts say OCD is at play..... we all have our flaws...and imperfections...

If she loves him & wants him in her life.. she will do all she can to reassure him..and like Samyeagar....such a man will do all HE can to love her, in spite of his struggle.....in the here and now.....they'll have to work through it....Love isn't always easy..and Sex evokes the deepest emotions in us ... is there any deeper way to KNOW another....body, soul, spirit union... to become ONE with them. (this is how I feel anyway)... 



> *What I'm trying to say SA in my own clunky way is that to me it is the love you have for someone that counts far more than whether they have had no, one, ten or a hundred previous partners*.


 Even 100.... see...I would not consider a man who slept with even 30 loosely to be the marrying type...I'd be open to understand and hear why he has changed...but at the same time, I'd be feeling I was setting myself up for a fall.. No #31 or #101....

It would be a much longer courtship to believe that sort of living was out of his system and suddenly he was now a "one woman" committed man -ready to settle down /have a family and never look back... I am just being honest.. of course it happens...CM's wife tamed him (But she tested him a full year, smart woman I say) and Conan's husband too... he even admitted it was a RISK on her behalf....

I just prefer the odds with a man that carries a more Romantic view of sexuality...It would greatly annoy me if he didn't share that, as I personally hold it so high. 



> *CharlieParker said*: Related, and not sure where I read this but, *sex is powerful source of pleasure but also can be powerful source of pain*.


 Very true.... There is no greater heaven on earth being lost in it feeling as One with our lover......yet men have killed themselves over a women they love giving it to another....WHY...the answer is too vast to even capture...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *ScarletBegonias said*:* I don't see it as being insecure at all. I actually believe it takes courage and massive willpower to stay a virgin til the right one comes along. I know personally I wouldn't have possessed the willpower.I wouldn't have made it to nearly 30yrs old as a virgin (my 'one' didn't show up in my adult life til I was in my late twenties) Then of course throw mental illness in there and I was pretty much screwed on controlling urges LOL*


Thank you SB , that was a very nice post...... I would not have lasted* THIS LONG * either, I am very sure of it ..I am also sure if all the men I ran into were of the







's advoate type...(dump them if they don't go ALL the way within the 1st 3 or 4 dates).... my self esteem would have been shot to hell .... and my view of men would have taken an awful dive as far as what I had dancing in my head....likely I would have started to feel I was doomed to PLEASE & get with the modern program or possibly face growing into an old Spinster.. 

Meeting him as young as I did, sometimes I feel he spared me much heartache......he wasn't even thinking about sex when we met, he just really wanted to get to KNOW me... and that was what I was looking for.. someone who wanted that *1st*....a Best friend... caring enough to wait till I was ready. 

My take on it is ...I was young...I had* time* on my side.. but let's say I didn't meet a great guy by the time I was 22ish...(as again I wanted to marry young, start our family)....I would have had to get over myself...lay down these fairy tale notions in my head...wake up to reality.....make the best of who was in my life...who was interested...and partake of the fruit (all the way I mean)... we still handled the fruit... just not taking it to the limit. 



> *Do you feel people with more than one partner don't deeply attach sexual expression to love?*


 I would never feel this way.....of course they do...we can LOVE a # of people in our lifetime.....and their emotional attachment can be as deep and strong as any married couples - even more so.... they may just not care about getting married....and romantic love doesn't always last..Love is a Risk after all... Marriages may not even last. 



> * It makes sense to not sleep with men who have no intentions of spending a lifetime with you if that's your goal.Doing it any other way would just wind up hurting you*.


 yes, it would have ...very much.....and I believe strongly I would have regretted those experiences, even cringed looking back for wasting them with someone who didn't want me for life... but chose to move on to another woman ... 



> *Do you feel that type of man is better or superior to the men who overlook sexual history?*


 Because I personally care about a man's sexual history.... it would make sense for me to prefer these very sort of men......that should not offend anyone ....these sorts of things should have us gravitate to similar like minded people..it's just another part of compatibility in my eyes.....

Because take the flip side .....from reading others thoughts on this (and it does ruffle my feathers at times)...and many articles on these 2 sides of the fence.......

Those who DO NOT care... are more likely to belittle my views.... find them ridiculous, tell me I have hang ups, write me off as lousy in bed.... I put sex on a pedestal.. why would I want to deal with that ?...it would make *me* feel like crap...and a clanging gong that this man does not value what is important to ME...... any more than others don't want to deal with a man who does care...and they have their personal list of reasons to feel as they do... that makes them feel like crap! 

It's like you said earlier.. it falls on both sides... can any of us win? so just Live and BE what we feel is best* for us* ... play within those boundaries and hopefully we will find those who Love us for being exactly what we are...


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If you meet the love of your life at 15, or 18, or even 20 it might be pretty easy to hang on and wait to present them with the jewel of your virginity. And if it happens to work out that the person you thought was the love of your life actually IS the love of your life, great. You can look back and say, look I was right to wait. 

But for the vast majority of people, that's not how it happens. Even if two people meet young and marry before they have sex, then they have a 50% chance of divorce. It's probably even higher for people who are very young when they marry. So those people, who waited, who thought they got it right, but then ended up divorced at 30, they look back and say, I was stupid to wait, to marry early, not to play the field a little. 

If my husband and I met now, I would expect him to have had a lot of partners. I would prefer it, than a man of his age having very few. Which I guess is bad news for him if I die and he's suddenly on the market.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lyris said:


> *If you meet the love of your life at 15, or 18, or even 20 it might be pretty easy to hang on and wait to present them with the jewel of your virginity. And if it happens to work out that the person you thought was the love of your life actually IS the love of your life, great. You can look back and say, look I was right to wait*.


 I surely realize this.. just as I said in my post, if I hit 22ish , I would have to get over what seemed like Unrealistic expectations I had... but still in todays society it seems we encourage *everyone *to have sex earlier & earlier .... for the sake of experience, sowing wild oats....so even the notion of THIS (if someone cared like I did)....it is knocked out of us ...we are dreaming... 

Go have FUN.... enjoy..." why do you care about getting married, that's when it all goes to hell"... this is the prevailing mindset today, these influences are strong... 



> *But for the vast majority of people, that's not how it happens. Even if two people meet young and marry before they have sex, then they have a 50% chance of divorce. It's probably even higher for people who are very young when they marry. So those people, who waited, who thought they got it right, but then ended up divorced at 30, they look back and say, I was stupid to wait, to marry early, not to play the field a little.*


 a stream of stories like that here, I fully realize this ... yet even in that....plenty of amazing sex was had while dating too, they seemed so compatible....and it still went bad.... it dried up...it goes both ways... 

I will agree most people don't know themselves when they are younger or what they REALLY want out of life...(or they didn't dig deep enough to know the other person).... I am not going to disagree with the study that says our brains are not fully developed till our mid 20's...

Looking back though ... I'd have to say we were very responsible young people....many would probably call us B O R I N G even....and that's fine... we didn't engage in any risky behaviors at all...always had our future in mind, even took the most pessimistic of views on what COULD happen so we could prevent it...so we were prepared. 



> If my husband and I met now, I would expect him to have had a lot of partners. *I would prefer it,* than a man of his age having very few. Which I guess is bad news for him if I die and he's suddenly on the market.


 and that's your choice....MANY feel as you do... why men are praised for more experience....and really... do you think I'd want a 40 yr old virgin ..... I would feel something is seriously wrong with him, a severe loner -surely not a romantic !... 

Yet I would much prefer one who had lesser and only in long term relationships to show he is the committed type who sticks around devoting himself to those he sleeps with...also it would speak the women hung on tightly to him as well. 

I don't have a problem with anything you are saying.... the world is BIG enough to embrace a variety of preferences ...one of my favorite saying is "*Different Drums for Different Drummers*" out of one of my temperament books... 

You could easily say this back to me... It gives us all room to Live , breathe and care about what is *most important* to us..for whatever reason.....and in any area of life...



> If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.
> 
> Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.
> 
> ...



Though I still feel in the minority, and yes, I live on this planet as you mentioned before in one of your posts....what I see today is most feel as you do...and SB and Wysh ....Just don't feel we don't take any ridicule as well..it's on both sides... Our son is a 23 yr old inexperienced male, most would laugh... this offends me..

My prospects of finding the type of man I would prefer is pretty damn low if my husband dies, I already know this... even getting a damn date today, men expect sex very quickly or the woman gets dumped...that's the reality we live in - and men don't care to marry anymore either.. 

I wouldn't be as particular NOW ...if I found myself single.. who knows I might even try to do a F*** buddy if I was craving it bad enough... but I'm very sure I'd have very conflicting emotions with that -and being the attacher I am, I'd be high risk for falling for him....and destroying our set up... then I'd be disgusted with myself.. what can you do.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Your Partner's Number*



Faithful Wife said:


> Thunder...have you seen the video I posted? It is hysterical. I think you might enjoy it.


That was a riot. One of the funniest men, ever.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So Deejo henceforth if you ever see my say "just stop it", you'll know what it means!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> So Deejo henceforth if you ever see my say "just stop it", you'll know what it means!


That or, "No, no, we don't go there."


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

:rofl:


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> There is no greater heaven on earth being lost in it feeling as One with our lover......yet men have killed themselves over a women they love giving it to another....WHY...the answer is too vast to even capture...


Because, in the dark recesses of the RJ mind, the thought is still there, 'If it's so special how could she have given it to another'.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

It's not ridiculing virgins to say that you would prefer a partner to have some sexual experience SA. I didn't see anyone on this thread ridiculing anyone.

I do think people who hang on to their virginity into their mid/late 20s and beyond are running the risk of building sex up so far in their minds that it becomes an actual obstacle. I watched a documentary about older virgins where that was the case. It became a real source of anxiety to them and actually stopped them from forming relationships.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Bob Newhart-Stop It - YouTube


This is a good philosophy to have. I don't think that I had RJ in the same way that other guys had/have it because mine was focused more on what I didn't do and not so much on what my partner did. I'm actually more experienced than her in a way.

It's not fun. It steals your peace of mind and makes it difficult to enjoy relationships. I still don't like it when friends talk about how wild college was because it wasn't for me. I instantly become depressed when I hear stories of the "good old days."


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Lyris said:


> It's not ridiculing virgins to say that you would prefer a partner to have some sexual experience SA. I didn't see anyone on this thread ridiculing anyone.
> 
> I do think people who hang on to their virginity into their mid/late 20s and beyond are running the risk of building sex up so far in their minds that it becomes an actual obstacle. I watched a documentary about older virgins where that was the case. It became a real source of anxiety to them and actually stopped them from forming relationships.


I can vouch for this. Losing your virginity at a later age is terrible. Not actually having sex (that's a huge relief: "I'm normal!") but the stress of years going by and everyone moving along in life, having 20 odd ex's while you've barely even touched a girl. I think I was at the breaking point when I lost my virginity. Sex had become a huge mystery and kind of terrifying.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ntamph said:


> I can vouch for this. Losing your virginity at a later age is terrible. Not actually having sex (that's a huge relief: "I'm normal!") but the stress of years going by and everyone moving along in life, having 20 odd ex's while you've barely even touched a girl. I think I was at the breaking point when I lost my virginity. Sex had become a huge mystery and kind of terrifying.


ntamph, did you ever have those good old randy dreams?

You kiss and fondle her, take off her bra, play with her breasts, inch your hand up her leg, pull of her knickers and then, erm and then you erm, and then :scratchhead: and then 'something' happens.


:rofl::rofl:


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> ntamph, did you ever have those good old randy dreams?
> 
> You kiss and fondle her, take off her bra, play with her breasts, inch your hand up her leg, pull of her knickers and then, erm and then you erm, and then :scratchhead: and then 'something' happens.
> 
> ...


I grew up with internet porn so I knew the mechanics of what was supposed to happen.

Not too long ago my dad had a scary medical situation and was hospitalized for a few weeks. I lost all interest in sex and masturbation (for weeks) and then started having wet dreams again. Weird.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ntamph said:


> It's not fun. It steals your peace of mind and makes it difficult to enjoy relationships. I still don't like it when friends talk about how wild college was because it wasn't for me. I instantly become depressed when I hear stories of the "good old days."


I hope that your present and future life fill you full of so many good experiences that you will forget all about what you did not experience in college.

Feeling the love of a child...

Filling up with pride as you see your spouse walking toward you across a crowded room, because they are so beautiful to you that the world swirls around their face like a movie...

Experiencing intimacy that is so deep you could pass out from it...

I can attest, because I have also partied and had the wild past...none of that compares to the real life experiences that will one day be what you cherish.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you FW, this means a lot. It's a struggle every day to focus on what I have but I think I'm getting better at it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Thunder7 said:


> Because, in the dark recesses of the RJ mind, the thought is still there, 'If it's so special how could she have given it to another'.


Because YOU make it special. Sex with YOU is special.

All sex with all partners is not the same. Different partners bring out different elements of your sexuality, both emotional and physical. It doesn't look, feel, or sound the same with different partners. It's not always special, for sure.

If your spouse tells you that it is special with YOU, you have the best anyone ever gets.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

norajane said:


> Because YOU make it special. Sex with YOU is special.
> 
> All sex with all partners is not the same. Different partners bring out different elements of your sexuality, both emotional and physical. It doesn't look, feel, or sound the same with different partners. It's not always special, for sure.
> 
> If your spouse tells you that it is special with YOU, you have the best anyone ever gets.


I understand and agree with you. It's just difficult sometimes to wrap the mind around and know the difference in how her blowing some other guy didn't mean anything compared to what it means with you, especially when you have no frame of reference
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What makes it special is love and the CHOICE to be with you long-term vs. whoever came before.

Edit: Ooh! Double entendre!! LOL


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

norajane said:


> Because YOU make it special. Sex with YOU is special.
> 
> All sex with all partners is not the same. Different partners bring out different elements of your sexuality, both emotional and physical. It doesn't look, feel, or sound the same with different partners. It's not always special, for sure.
> 
> If your spouse tells you that it is special with YOU, you have the best anyone ever gets.


That sounds great, in theory. But someone dealing with this crap in their brain does not skew things towards the positive, like this. They skew them towards the negative. That's why it's a problem. If we thought about it positively, it wouldn't BE a problem. Screwed up, I know. You don't have to tell me that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lyris said:


> *It's not ridiculing virgins to say that you would prefer a partner to have some sexual experience SA. I didn't see anyone on this thread ridiculing anyone.*


you are right, there hasn't been.... just our personal thoughts ...it's been respectful.... 

It's funny...husband is working with this new Co-worker, he's 19 ... I guess he is always talking about SEX....and banging his gf who lives with him, she is Bi and they started out as Screw buddies... but fell for each other and are now living together.. he wants to get together with us, hang out a little...(husband told him I was a nympho too)... ya know I am looking forward to meeting these 2...should be rather interesting.. 

There is nothing wrong with being and feeling different... we had a swinger friend for a time..he talked to us about his experiences... Bought my husband a birthday dinner one night at the Strip club, we may be a little conservative between each other (more than most can understand even) --yet in regards to other people ....we're pretty open minded....if something WORKS... IT WORKS... and it's good.




> *I do think people who hang on to their virginity into their mid/late 20s and beyond are running the risk of building sex up so far in their minds that it becomes an actual obstacle. I watched a documentary about older virgins where that was the case. It became a real source of anxiety to them and actually stopped them from forming relationships*.


I'd love to see this... do you remember the name ...is it on Netflix? 

I, too, feel mid 20's...never done anything....how can it not start bothering someone....especially when you compare others lives so easily lived & enjoyed here -flowing , even with some heartache... it has to be worth getting into the game at THIS POINT... just to LIVE life...experience it ... even with the lowering of our expectations...as we don't want them working against us....

....rigidity can lead to many regrets too..This would be a very very sad fate....










I have a cousin who was single for many yrs... he just found a woman at age 36... I remember him telling us he had his 1st sexual experience at age 14....he couldn't believe me & husband waited as long as we did... his mouth was hanging on the floor.. then he had this huge long dry spell for like over 10 plus years.... no women at all... so happy he finally found someone though.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> you are right, there hasn't been.... just our personal thoughts ...it's been respectful....
> 
> It's funny...husband is working with this new Co-worker, he's 19 ... I guess he is always talking about SEX....and banging his gf who lives with him, she is Bi and they started out as Screw buddies... but fell for each other and are now living together.. he wants to get together with us, hang out a little...(husband told him I was a nympho too)... ya know I am looking forward to meeting these 2...should be rather interesting..
> 
> ...


How did he get stuck in a 10 years dry spell?


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## Moriarty (Feb 22, 2014)

I've been with my second wife for 15 years. Don't know her number and don't care. Why should it matter?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> I didn't care that I was big number +1, I just cared that I was getting some.
> 
> Fast forward 20+ years, as long as I am still only same big number +1, I still just care that I'm getting some. I am and I do, so I'm good.


And what matters is that you love her and she loves you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> *How did he get stuck in a 10 years dry spell?*


It could have been even longer.. not that we know all the details of his life, but he's always been pretty open with me & my husband.. when we get together.... 

When he was younger, he hung with a wilder crowd, they did some risky things, he told me he could have almost been killed a couple times.. quad riders hanging out, partying... things my Aunt never knew..or at least not to that extent.....had some women but never anything serious in all those years... I don't quite understand it -as he is good looking/ great body.. .. but yet a loner... very introverted temperament, hell of a mechanic though...

My religious Aunt adopted him, we would always talk openly about religion & how he could never talk to her...typical parent/ kid thing yet the divide was deeper, I mean she felt all rock music was evil...and he loved it.... so did I...a common link we always shared... I guess I was his outlet....he felt comfortable sharing anything with me. 

Somehow after some problems with friends.. he started to go towards the church.... (I guess that explains the dry spell ....religion can be a mind screw on not putting yourself out there showing you desire women TOO MUCH-after all you are going to church to worship God)....combine that with his already loner temperament, all his former buddies moving on-getting married... I don't know.. I think he was a little lost..just going to work every day and not much else happening.. 

He was interested in one woman at church, I kept encouraging him to put himself out there...he was too lax & she hooked up with someone else..

.. I am just happy he found someone...I always thought it was  cause he's such a great guy to be alone...this woman is very opposite...he is quiet and laid back... she is very outgoing.. , talkative... so happy for him. ... It's been almost 2 yrs now since they met....everyone's story is different...


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

The documentary was called 40 year old virgins, I think. It was British. Not sure about netflix, we don't get it here.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It could have been even longer.. not that we know all the details of his life, but he's always been pretty open with me & my husband.. when we get together....
> 
> When he was younger, he hung with a wilder crowd, they did some risky things, he told me he could have almost been killed a couple times.. quad riders hanging out, partying... things my Aunt never knew..or at least not to that extent.....had some women but never anything serious in all those years... I don't quite understand it -as he is good looking/ great body.. .. but yet a loner... very introverted temperament, hell of a mechanic though...
> 
> ...


Man! This illustrates how this particular path can be chosen for a good reason, but can lead to a terrible outcome...


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

ntamph said:


> This is a good philosophy to have. I don't think that I had RJ in the same way that other guys had/have it because mine was focused more on what I didn't do and not so much on what my partner did. I'm actually more experienced than her in a way.
> 
> It's not fun. It steals your peace of mind and makes it difficult to enjoy relationships. I still don't like it when friends talk about how wild college was because it wasn't for me. I instantly become depressed when I hear stories of the "good old days."
> 
> ...


I could have written both of your entries Ntamph. Hell until reading in this thread I had never even heard the term retroactive jealousy. But I know I definitely suffer from it. Something I fight all the time.

Its the worst when you go through drier spells with your wife/so too. Brings back the "whats wrong with me" " am I not appealing/desirable" feeling all over again.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> I could have written both of your entries Ntamph. Hell until reading in this thread I had never even heard the term retroactive jealousy. But I know I definitely suffer from it. Something I fight all the time.
> 
> Its the worst when you go through drier spells with your wife/so too. Brings back the "whats wrong with me" " am I not appealing/desirable" feeling all over again.


If you even say it to her, it will reduce your desireability in her eyes after some time. The feedback loop in your own mind will decrease your value you percieve of yourself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> *Man! This illustrates how this particular path can be chosen for a good reason, but can lead to a terrible outcome..*.


 I don't get what you mean by this comment... what path was chosen for a good reason.. and why a terrible outcome - he eventually hooked up with someone.... if I was to ask him if he was lonely in love all these years, I am not even sure he would be upset by it, he just kinda did his own thing....He is one of the most introverted guys I think I know though... he would even get irritated with my Aunt for being friendly when they were out & about, like it annoyed him somehow.... 

See, I come from a very romantic perspective, It's always kinda bugged me , thinking "Gawd, they need to find someone , it's so sweet to be in love"... Merry Matchmaker is Me.. I like having a significant other..or at least being on the prowl for one...

Our older son is kinda like that (my cousin I mean)... he is Happy... not sad -just cause he is single and doesn't have a woman to bang.....he is not going to settle just cause he isn't in a relationship -that is his attitude...... It seems the cousin was similar as we've talked about some of the women he's met , and the shorter relationships here & there, how he felt, it seemed it was generally him who rejected...they just weren't his type... 

I think at the end of the day, we are at the wheel of our own destiny's...when we want something bad enough, we'll put ourselves out there to find that other person. 



> *Lyris said: **The documentary was called 40 year old virgins, I think. It was British.* Not sure about netflix, we don't get it here.


 Thank you , I will look this up , I would love to see it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't get what you mean by this comment... what path was chosen for a good reason.. and why a terrible outcome - he eventually hooked up with someone.... if I was to ask him if he was lonely in love all these years, I am not even sure he would be upset by it, he just kinda did his own thing....He is one of the most introverted guys I think I know though... he would even get irritated with my Aunt for being friendly when they were out & about, like it annoyed him somehow....


I was saying submersing yourself in the church and the christian religion, may not make an attractive and sexy aura of a man, compared to what the world likes. So getting focused on this, and how evil and bad the world is led him to ignore some of the workings of the world, whether you are religious or not.



SimplyAmorous said:


> See, I come from a very romantic perspective, It's always kinda bugged me , thinking "Gawd, they need to find someone , it's so sweet to be in love"... Merry Matchmaker is Me.. I like having a significant other..or at least being on the prowl for one...
> 
> Our older son is kinda like that (my cousin I mean)... he is Happy... not sad -just cause he is single and doesn't have a woman to bang.....he is not going to settle just cause he isn't in a relationship -that is his attitude...... It seems the cousin was similar as we've talked about some of the women he's met , and the shorter relationships here & there, how he felt, it seemed it was generally him who rejected...they just weren't his type...


OK. Sometimes in the non-religious situation, a person would need to have sex even if it's not with the ideal person, because it would be good for their ego and self esteem, raising these will improve their chances with people they really want to be with.


SimplyAmorous said:


> I think at the end of the day, we are at the wheel of our own destiny's...when we want something bad enough, we'll put ourselves out there to find that other person.
> 
> Thank you , I will look this up , I would love to see it.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

I told myself I wouldn't read this thread but, similar to what some other posters wrote, I was drawn to it like a moth to the flame. I say this because I am one of those bitten by the RJ bug (see below).

My answer to the OP's original question is that whether the number matters depends on one's age and one's values. Wait: values may be a loaded word and I don't mean to be judgmental. Maybe beliefs is better.

I was never a "wait until marriage" guy. But what I am is a guy whose beliefs exclude casual sex, one night stands, open relationships, cheating, and even sex on the first date (yes I'm *that *weird). I would say my beliefs are outmoded, but that would assume that at some point they *were *the mode. Far from it: I have always felt that they almost have made me a social and cultural outcast, ESPECIALLY as a man. I've had less than a handful of intermediate to long-term, committed relationships. The sex in each was wonderful. But my number is low and it seems our culture is moving steadily and rapidly in the other direction.

For someone who is relatively young and interested in only a committed relationship, a high number with ONS etc. is a red flag. It raises questions about whether that person is interested in commitment, at least right now. I didn't want to invest time and effort and emotion in someone who wanted a different lifestyle. So the number mattered.

Or would have mattered had I known. My wife and I became committed at 23 and 19. Way too young, looking back. Everything I knew about her indicated that our values on relationships and sex and commitment were totally aligned. So I never thought to ask any questions. Only recently, much, much later, did I learn that she pretty much could have ticked off every one of the acts that were contrary to my beliefs. I now know that at 19, her number was *way *above average and dwarfs mine. This discovery has left me dealing with RJ.

BUT: now I'm about to say something that's consistent with what many of those with much higher numbers have posted in this thread. My wife has been the most devoted, faithful, loving partner I could have ever imagined. She is wise beyond belief and compassionate about my RJ. I'm crazy about her. Had I known her complete history and therefore passed on her as a 23-year old, it would have been a terrible thing, a huge mistake, a colossal blunder. The likelihood that I would have found someone else in her league is low.

So I guess I can see both sides of this particular discussion. I just wish I could slay my RJ demon once and for all. A couple people commented that it can be re-channelled and managed. PM suggestions please! I've tried the Bob Newhart approach and it hasn't worked so far.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> OK. * Sometimes in the non-religious situation, a person would need to have sex even if it's not with the ideal person, because it would be good for their ego and self esteem, raising these will improve their chances with people they really want to be with.*


I think this is very  what you said here.. sleeping with someone just to raise one's self esteem & ego..(oh I know many do this).....basically this boils down to just "using" someone as they are there...we're both horny --why not......this builds the man's confidence so then he is MORE ATTRACTIVE to the TYPE he really wants to BE with...

See to me...this is pure game playing...is he honest with that woman who he strung along for a ride that he never really wanted her at all.. he was just LONELY... see, I would not want to be one of those women -who wasn't "ideal" ....just there for the taking... so the guy could get his ego boosted during his dry spell....so he could move on to a more superior woman..

Puts a very bad taste in my mouth.. 

I'd much rather be with the guy who kept it in his pants because he was particular -and was looking for REAL LOVE and it doesn't sit well with him to just sleep with whomever is available...or a woman he wouldn't be willing to put a ring on her finger & walk down the aisle....over the guy who needed to bang someone for his self esteem. 

My husband has told me a few times, had he not met up with me, he may have never even married... he was THAT choosy.. it does make me feel pretty special.... Had I met him at 30 and he was still inexperienced -this would not have caused me to pause, I would have given him a chance..I look at the heart , not how fat a man's little black book is....(that would be a huge turn off to me)....I might have even teased him about it but I love the Guys who are old fashioned like that... that's just how I am wired.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I will not agree with anyone that equates higher numbers with great sex. To me, it's all about learning your partner's likes and dislikes, but also enjoying those things yourself. That's just the sex part. The rest is the love shared in an out of the bed.


I have an analogy I've always used about this point. It goes like this:

A man is like a kazoo. Any damn fool can learn to play one.

A woman is like a Stradivarius. First one has to put in years to know the basics about playing the violin--and then each one is so different, and it takes a lot of practice before one knows its unique characteristics and finally can get to the point of making beautiful music with it.

Yes, I know I'm being simplistic, especially in the line about men. I think the point is valid as made by 2ntnuf and in my shorthand analogy. Someone who has had sex with 40 people might not be as good as someone who knows how to learn to play a Stradivarius.

That's what I'm going to tell myself, anyway.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> I have an analogy I've always used about this point. It goes like this:
> 
> A man is like a kazoo. Any damn fool can learn to play one.
> 
> ...


Your not going to max a woman out on the first time UNLESS she really gets off on fresh meat and a big c0ck if you have one.

Of course getting them off, boosting their pleasure to the max takes time and dedication to the art, doesn't happen the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd time.

One night standers are very good at getting someone in the bed though, I can't take that away from them.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Someone who plays a Stradivarius invariably has learned to play well on other violins on the road to mastering their craft.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

The high number never bothered me as much as being with a virgin...I actuallly dated a virgin in our mid 20's...no thanks...

My stbx and I both had high numbers when we met...she turned out to be a slvt...I did not


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Someone who plays a Stradivarius invariably has learned to play well on other violins on the road to mastering their craft.


Not necessarily. My STBW is my third sexual partner and I am almost 42. We met when I was 40, and I played her like a Stradivarius from the moment we first kissed. She on the other hand had 30 some partners before me, and it took her quite a while to figure me out. While she had had triple the number of partners I have, I have probably had sex more times than she has, and that includes the four year sexless time that ended the first time she and I wewre together.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Not necessarily. My STBW is my third sexual partner and I am almost 42. We met when I was 40, and I played her like a Stradivarius from the moment we first kissed. She on the other hand had 30 some partners before me, and it took her quite a while to figure me out. While she had had triple the number of partners I have, I have probably had sex more times than she has, and that includes the four year sexless time that ended the first time she and I wewre together.


Not necessarily, true. And I will agree that you THINK you were capable of playing her like a Stradivarius!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Not necessarily, true. *And I will agree that you THINK you were capable of playing her like a Stradivarius!*


I saw the texts she sent to her best friend after I left that night


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Some people are naturals at sex and can be experts at it with only one partner. I consider SA to be one of those, and samyeager is likely one, too.

Extremely sexual people will tend to have this talent.

Playing violin is much different and too technical to compare to an intuitive process.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But I do agree that others can get better by having lots of varied experience.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

As long as she is satisfied, that's all that matters, Sam.

I think the point I'm getting at is that we sometimes don't know our own or our partner's full capacity for ecstasy, and it can come as a surprise to discover that there's something even more amazing possible that you'd never experienced or imagined previously. We don't have a bunch of expert critics in the audience reviewing our performance, either! (Well, I don't, that's for sure!)


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I suppose one could look at it like any other athletic things like baseball. Lots of people play it, and at some point some people get pretty good through lots of practice, but the only ones who make it to the big leagues are the ones who were born with a natural talent, because there are just some things that no matter how much one practices, they can only get so good at it.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Someone who plays a Stradivarius invariably has learned to play well on other violins on the road to mastering their craft.


This has always been a slight concern of mine. As a low numbers chap I have no frame of reference.

I just do the best that I can.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> This has always been a slight concern of mine. As a low numbers chap I have no frame of reference.
> 
> I just do the best that I can.


As I said to Sam, if you partner is satisfied, that's all that matters. Yes, you may have untapped potential, but won't know that unless you have a partner who either knows what's possible or is able and willing to explore and grow with you. Even then, there are things only to be learned from others with alternate experiences - but that doesn't necessarily matter unless you want it to.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

It is (was) not a concern for me. Firstly, my wife came into the relationship with far less numbers. But that aside, by the time I was ready for a marriage, I had changed (a lot) and my wife had knowledge of my past. 

Ok, I was not a player, but let's just say committed relationships were never part of a concern when I was younger. In fact, I would say I never really had a gf, never wanted one and had a commitment phobia (probably had a lot to do with my upbringing). Needless to say, I like sex, always have since my first experience at age 17. 

I matured a lot before I got married and now being older, none of that really matters. I would rather not have to brag or even worry about such trivial things. I love my wife dearly as I love my sons. All that is past and my wife is anything but LD, so sex with the one I love is not an issue. End of story.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> As I said to Sam, if you partner is satisfied, that's all that matters. Yes, you may have untapped potential, but won't know that unless you have a partner who either knows what's possible or is able and willing to explore and grow with you. Even then, there are things only to be learned from others with alternate experiences - but that doesn't necessarily matter unless you want it to.


I'm sure I'm fine, I had a good teacher!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I know this has been brought up in several different ways, but I will clearly illustrate.

If you are a enthusiastic, adventurous, and off the hook crazy good sex partner, numbers don't mean squat. Unless someone wants to ruminate over their partners enthusiasm. 

My current GF is sexually fearless. Shes daring, fun, enthusiastic, and openly sexual. Married young, over 20 years with the same person.

We have talked about sex extensively. We havent talked numbers. Shes REALLY good at sex, and if I had to wager a guess, I am the 3rd or 4th man she has slept with in her life. 

But even if she were to tell me the number is more like 60, I wouldn't much care.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

If I divorce and start dating, anybody breathing will have had more sex and/or more partners than me ... so why worry about it? Just enjoy.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I know this has been brought up in several different ways, but I will clearly illustrate.
> 
> If you are a enthusiastic, adventurous, and off the hook crazy good sex partner, numbers don't mean squat. Unless someone wants to ruminate over their partners enthusiasm.
> 
> ...


QFT.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

And for the record, average number of lifetime partners for a woman is between 6 and 8.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> And for the record, average number of lifetime partners for a woman is between 6 and 8.


well...I always wanted to be above average at something in life...

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I know this has been brought up in several different ways, but I will clearly illustrate.
> 
> If you are a enthusiastic, adventurous, and off the hook crazy good sex partner, numbers don't mean squat. Unless someone wants to ruminate over their partners enthusiasm.
> 
> ...


That's your view, which is perfectly legitimate. But you presume to speak for everyone, which you should not. Other views can be equally legitimate.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jaharthur said:


> That's your view, which is perfectly legitimate. But you presume to speak for everyone, which you should not. Other views can be equally legitimate.


No. They can't. 

I'm not out to shame anyone. 

Certainly not my intention to speak for everyone. I find it unfortunate that this issue obviously affects a substantial number of men on the board.

I find it unfortunate because I see it as harmful, to both people in the relationship. But I also recognize that it isn't something one can just turn off.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Deejo said:


> And for the record, average number of lifetime partners for a woman is between 6 and 8.


I've seen multiple studies that claim that's the average for men. 4 is supposedly the average with women.

Of course there is a huge range of variability. 20% of men and 25% of women have lifetime monogamy. A similar number have 20+ partners.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

larry.gray said:


> I've seen multiple studies that claim that's the average for men. 4 is supposedly the average with women.
> 
> Of course there is a huge range of variability. 20% of men and 25% of women have lifetime monogamy. A similar number have 20+ partners.


You know Larry, you may be right. I was at work when I posted, and despite vaguely remembering reading the numbers previously, I wasn't about to google 'Average number of sex partners for a woman' on my computer at work. We got some new IT folk that make me squirrely.

What I do recall, is the average is higher than '1'.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I also like what that difference in average (mean) numbers between the genders means. The surveys are talking about the average number of _of women_ men have had sex with and vice-verse. So that means it's not gay men running up the average. 

Women who are promiscuous are more promiscuous than the men who are. It's a tiny portion of the women who are moving the men's average up without moving the women's average up because they are such a small fraction of the women.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Deejo said:


> If you are a enthusiastic, adventurous, and off the hook crazy good sex partner, numbers don't mean squat. Unless someone wants to ruminate over their partners enthusiasm.


This has always been my attitude. AND, as long as she hasn't used up all the good stuff, I'm happy. Now, 15 partners who she was enthusiastic, adventurous, off the hood crazy good with.....but she's closed off with ME? That's a no-go.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This has always been my attitude. AND, as long as she hasn't used up all the good stuff, I'm happy. Now, 15 partners who she was enthusiastic, adventurous, off the hood crazy good with.....but she's closed off with ME? That's a no-go.


:iagree:

That's where a gal that was the f-toy of a bad boy would be a hard one to get past. Girls that are in those relationship had issues, and they very well may have worked past all of those issues and want nothing to do with the bad boys anymore. 

They also may feel sex with a good guy is far more fulfilling, enjoyable... whatever....

You know that she went the entire length of a relationship with the bad boy and never told him no. Let herself be used in any way he wanted. He could degrade her, use her and she came back for more. The first time she tells you no? It'd be hell. It's bad enough to be told no by your wife without that history. But to know on top of it that some asswipe that used her never got told no, but the guy that loves her, treats her well and respects her gets told no would be too much.

One could let it go if she was always the freak in the sheets that a guy would never want to give up (at least for the sex). Yeah, no sometimes happens. But if it was rare and most of the time the sex was mind-blowing it'd be OK. But OK sex with some things off the table and less than rare no's would be a deal breaker with that history.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

And I see that story played out with a gal at work. No... I don't know the sex details. But I see her tribulations of being a single mom with the baby daddy in prison. She's a good looking gal, and at least in her work interactions she comes off as a level headed gal. One of the issues that bleeds over into what I do hear involves the guys she was involved with in her wild days.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I agree Larry. Total deal breaker.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Some people are naturals at sex and can be experts at it with only one partner. I consider SA to be one of those, and samyeager is likely one, too.
> 
> **Extremely sexual people will tend to have this talent.
> 
> Playing violin is much different and too technical to compare to an intuitive process*.


Awe thank you for that FW, coming from a Sex Blogger & all...... Samyeager he has many similarities to my husband, so he has said a # of times on here ....& I guess I sound an awful lot like his STB Wife ....which is an obvious .... Poor guy!

I'm very passionate about SEX, when it's doused in romantic intimacy that is...it's something one never grows tired of, the learning & exploring is a pleasure pursuit...ever fulfilling....it's my preferred dopamine.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Some people are naturals at sex and can be experts at it with only one partner. I consider SA to be one of those, and samyeager is likely one, too.
> 
> Extremely sexual people will tend to have this talent.
> 
> Playing violin is much different and too technical to compare to an intuitive process.


Wellll, I like to thing I'm among them  I've always been sexually preoccupied so I think that's a big part of it.

I remember back to when my now wife and I were exploring. A very good friend at the time (was my best man) had a very different experience. He crossed paths with a 35 y/o divorcee when he went home after the first year of college. She was a woman that left her husband for being LD when she hit her peak. They had a summer of debauchery, and he considered it a wonderful education - she was his first. He thought we were crazy "two people who didn't know what they were doing." Yes and no.... figuring it all out on our own was a whole lot of fun! I can understand and respect his position. Mine is just different.


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