# My husband is Jekyll and Hyde.



## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

I posted here quite awhile ago for basically the same reasons and am experiencing similar issues again. My husband goes from being the sweetest, most loving and caring spouse to the nastiest, meanest, most cruel person I've ever encountered, on a fairly regular basis. 

His list of excuses for his nastiness is endless - he's stressed out from work, he can't rely on me, he's tired, he's so busy...on and on and on. 

The latest example goes back a few weeks.

We just recently returned from an absolutely wonderful 2 week trip in Indonesia. It was incredibly relaxing and we had a ton of amazing quality time together. We really connected, and I felt more bonded to him than I have in a long time. 

We arrived home yesterday. 

Not even a day after getting home from holidays he's already lacing into me. I'm useless, I'm unreliable, I don't do anything right, without him nothing would get done, if I was his employee, he would fire me. Remember, we haven't even been home a day and already I do nothing right. 

The icing on the cake was when he discovered the packaging from a bikini I purchased for an upcoming girls only trip to Las Vegas. I purchased a thong bikini, something I have owned and worn before plenty of times in the past. I elected not to show him, as I knew he would lace into me about what a "*****" or "****" I am. Sure enough, he brought it up and said only porn stars wear thongs and that I'm such a ***** for even wanting to wear one. I'm a faithful wife, enjoying my body, and feel every right to wear what I choose to. I am not gallivanting around naked, nor am I looking for attention. I am European and this is the style of bathing suit I like. I have even gone topless on various beaches around the world in our travels in front of my husband and he never took an issue with it. Why he has such an issue with my wearing a thong bikini now - I have no clue. 

We've been married 7 years, together 12. He shows glimmers of improvement, only to have constant set backs where I am the punching bag for his insecurities, him feeling threatened, losing control, feeling abandoned (our therapist's favourite). 

I just feel so stupid for thinking things had finally changed only to be sadly proven right again for knowing he would revert back to his usual ways as soon as real life set in again.

Do I have a hope in hell of ever improving my marriage? I can only walk away so many times (which is in the thousands now) and swallow his endless insults, and choose the high road. 

We've been seeing a therapist for almost the entirety of our marriage. She tells us how much we've "improved" but he's never really changed or bothered to get over his abusive ways. 

Any suggestions, can anyone relate?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucy, you wrote a similar list of complaints about your H last December and received nine lengthy responses -- none of which you acknowledged or responded to. I suspect you would get a better response in this new thread -- where you again describe your H's display of classic BPD warning signs -- if you would be kind enough to thank those TAM members who already spent considerable time trying to help you before.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucy, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., always being "The Victim" (blaming you for everything), emotional instability, verbal and physical abuse, low self esteem, very controlling behavior, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), strong fear of abandonment, and lack of impulse control -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of course, you cannot diagnose your H, i.e., you cannot determine whether he "has BPD." 

That is, you cannot determine whether his BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. I therefore recommend you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you likely are dealing with. 

I note that there is a world of difference between _making a diagnosis_ (which is very difficult) and simply _spotting the warning signs_ for a disorder (which is not difficult). You are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD traits -- if you take a little time to learn what to look for -- because there is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," and the push-away/pull-back cycle. Below, I will comment on statements you made both in this thread and in your 12/3/13 Thread.



> I am the punching bag for his insecurities, him feeling threatened, losing control, *feeling abandoned (*our therapist's favourite).


If your H is a "BPDer" (i.e., has strong BPD traits), abandonment is his greatest fear. And, as a BPDer, he also would have a great fear of engulfment -- that suffocating feeling a BPDer gets during intimacy that causes him to feel like he is losing his identity and being controlled by you. Importantly, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to avoid triggering these two fears if he is a BPDer. The reason is that these fears lie at the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. This means that, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you necessarily are drawing closer to triggering the other fear.



> My husband goes from being the sweetest, most loving and caring spouse to the nastiest, meanest, most cruel person I've ever encountered, on a fairly regular basis.


This flipping between Jekyll and Hyde -- which typically occurs in just ten seconds -- is called "black-white thinking," which is a form of "splitting." Because a BPDer has a fragile, fractured sense of who he is, he is extremely uncomfortable dealing with ambiguities, uncertainties, and other grey areas in interpersonal relationships.

He therefore will categorize everyone (including himself) as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me"). And he will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other, in just a few seconds, based solely on a minor comment or action that triggers one of his two fears. The result is that, with a BPDer, it is not uncommon for him to be perceiving you to be the devil for five hours -- and, then in a few minutes, completely change to "splitting you white" and treating you with caring and tenderness. 

Because a BPDer cannot tolerate having to deal with strong mixed feelings, he "splits off" the conflicting feeling (of love or hate), putting it out of reach of his conscious mind. This is why a man who loves you is capable of such abusive behavior. While he is being abusive, his conscious mind is completely out of touch with his loving feelings.



> His list of excuses for his nastiness is endless - he's stressed out from work, he can't rely on me, he's tired, he's so busy...on and on and on.


If your H is a BPDer, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. He has been carrying enormous anger and feelings of intense shame since early childhood. Hence, you only have to say or do some trivial thing that TRIGGERS a release of the anger that is always there. Further, even if you sit perfectly still and don't say a thing, the anger still will be released periodically. 

This will happen because, in order to release the internal pain, his subconscious mind will protect his fragile ego by projecting the hurtful thoughts and feelings onto YOU. Because this process occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he will be absolutely convinced -- at the conscious level -- that the painful feelings and thoughts are originating from you. 

In an attempt to make sense of it all, his conscious mind will produce "plausible" explanations of why you are treating him so badly. The result is that, with a BPDer, you will see him making such absurd allegations that you will simply be amazed any adult male can say such things while holding a straight face.



> We just recently returned from an absolutely wonderful 2 week trip in Indonesia....Not even a day after getting home from holidays he's already lacing into me.


Because a BPDer has a weak, fragile sense of who he is, he quickly starts feeling controlled and engulfed during intimacy (not just during sex but also during those wonderful moments of sharing). The result is that a BPDer's WORST fights tend to arise during, or immediately after, the very BEST of times -- e.g., right after an intimate evening or great weekend, or during a wonderful vacation. 

Hence, if your H really does have strong BPD traits, I am surprised he was able to sustain a two-week vacation without incident. I say this because my BPDer exW ruined most (not all) of our expensive vacations. At some point during the vacation, she typically would sabotage it by creating a fight -- over nothing at all -- as a way of pushing me away and getting relief from the sustained intimacy.



> Do I have a hope in hell of ever improving my marriage? I can only walk away so many times (which is in the thousands now) and swallow his endless insults, and choose the high road....I've nearly left him 2-3 times.


BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. They are caused by the push-you-away/pull-you-back cycle that BPDers create when bouncing back and forth between their abandonment fear and engulfment fear. A recent survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.



> At times he would get violent - throwing pots and pans, shoving me, threatening me. Again, I didn't realize how serious this was and just shrugged it off as typical marital disputes.


The relationship between BPD and spousal battering is well known, due to the results of many studies. A 1993 study at the Univ. of British Columbia, for example, concludes _"that 90-100% of men who physically assault their spouses exhibited symptoms of what are clinically known as personality disorders."_ Roger Melton, author of _When Mr. Right Turns Out to be Mr. Wrong_, says that these studies show that _"almost half of all batterers and stalkers are Borderline."_ See Romeo's Bleeding.



> The issue is that it gets better for awhile, and then he reverts back to his old ways. And it's never about anything of significance.


One reason that a BPDer has a need to create drama is to validate his false self image of always being "The Victim." Another is to push you away during (or immediately after) intimacy so he can get breathing room and not feel so engulfed. A BPDer thus is prone to create fights over issues so minor that, a week later, both of you will have difficulty recalling what the fight was about.



> I know the signs of when he's getting angry so normally I leave the house or go to another room and tell him I won't engage with him while he's red hot.


That is wise. Most likely, you also are walking on eggshells much of the time to avoid triggering a release of his anger. It is so common for the "Non" (nonBPDer) spouse in a BPDer relationship to do this that the best-selling BPD book is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> I am in love with him. He is my best friend. I see so much good in him and so many amazing qualities about him that I love. We have the best time together and laugh non stop.


High functioning BPDers are VERY EASY to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct. Generally, HF BPDers exhibit a warmth and purity of expression that otherwise is seen only in young children. And, due to their lack of impulse control, they often exhibit a spontaneity that makes them so much fun to be around (while they are splitting you white, of course). 



> we have been trying to conceive.


I strongly suggest you avoid having a child until you've seen a clinical psychologist to find out exactly what it is you're dealing with.



> He will yell, scream, swear, name call and threaten me physically over how I organized my shoe closet, but I know it is not about the shoe closet. He just won't or can't own up to where the need for control and abuse comes from.


If he has strong and persistent BPD traits, they originated in early childhood -- most likely before age five. The result, if he is a BPDer, is that his emotional development likely was frozen at about the level of a four year old. This could explain, then, why he lacks the emotional skills that the rest of us learned in early childhood: how to control his emotions, how to do self soothing, how to avoid black-white thinking, and how to intellectually challenge his intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts."



> Our therapist offers all sorts of communication techniques but nothing ever seems to stick.


I agree with *Emerald* and *KathyBatesel* (who posted in your first thread) that MC likely is a waste of money because you are describing problems that go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. As I noted above, your H has a lack of basic emotional regulation skills if he is exhibiting strong and persistent BPD traits. 

Until he learns those skills (which would take several years at least), going to a MC likely would be a total waste of time. Moreover, going to MC with an untreated BPDer can make matters worse. One reason is that it provides him a stage on which to play the victim and blame you for everything. Another reason is that teaching an untreated BPDer communication skills may simply make him better at manipulating you.



> We've been seeing a therapist for almost the entirety of our marriage. She tells us how much we've "improved" but he's never really changed or bothered to get over his abusive ways.


I feel your pain. Likewise, I spent a small fortune taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists and 3 MCs in weekly sessions held for 15 years -- all to no avail. If your H has strong BPD traits, intensive IC is needed with a psychologist who is very experienced in treating BPDers (i.e., experienced in teaching the skills I mentioned above). A MC therefore likely will be totally ineffective. Moreover, the experienced psychologist likely will be ineffective too unless the BPDer is strongly self-motivated to undertake the therapy. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength required to stay in therapy long enough to make a real difference



> So, here I am, trying to figure out if I should leave or go. *It's not so bad that I feel I should leave* - he probably has outbursts once or twice a month, or sometimes when it gets bad, weekly. But it's good enough and we have a lot of fun together that so much of me wants to stay.


Every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means we all have it to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H is exhibiting BPD traits. Of course he is. We all are.

Rather, at issue is whether his BPD traits are at such a strong and persistent level that they are distorting his perceptions of your intentions and motivations, thus seriously undermining your marriage. Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot all the warning signs and decide, for yourself, whether he is sufficiently stable to make a good husband and father.

Toward that end, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two ALL BY YOURSELF -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Importantly, if BPD is a strong possibility, it would be foolish to rely on information provided by HIS therapist. The reason -- as I've discussed in many other threads -- is that therapists usually withhold the diagnosis information when treating a HF BPDer (for the client's own protection). And, if they won't tell him, there is little chance they will tell you. This is why it is important to see a psychologist who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not his.

I also suggest, while you're looking for an experienced psychologist, you take a look at my list of BPD red flags at *18 BPD Warning Signs*. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I suggest you read my more detailed description of them in *Maybe's Thread*. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Lucy.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Uptown, first off, huge thank you for your incredibly thoughtful and thorough post. 

It makes a lot of sense, to be quite frank, and explains a lot of his behaviours and how none of what he does ever makes sense to me and why nothing we try ever seems to "stick". 

I really appreciate your taking the time to share your knowledge on this topic with me...I am definitely going to research this further. My gut is telling me to fight for the marriage and I will do whatever I can to make it work.

Thank you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucy, I'm glad to hear you found the information on BPD warning signs to be useful. I wish you and your H the best of luck.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

At first glance it looks like he's more likely bipolar rather than borderline personality disorder, but I didn't read the OP's other threads. 

In any case, I wonder if it might help if you used a voice recorder to record him during his worse periods. During his "up" moods he might not believe how bad he gets and it might convince him to either change his behavior or get professional help.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Perhaps he has some insecurities regarding your upcoming "girls only" trip to Vegas...?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/189946-question-women-who-bisexual.html


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Theseus said:


> At first glance it looks like he's more likely bipolar rather than borderline personality disorder, but I didn't read the OP's other threads.
> 
> In any case, I wonder if it might help if you used a voice recorder to record him during his worse periods. During his "up" moods he might not believe how bad he gets and it might convince him to either change his behavior or get professional help.


I have actually done this, and replayed it back for him, and he just makes excuses for his outbursts.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Perhaps he has some insecurities regarding your upcoming "girls only" trip to Vegas...?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/189946-question-women-who-bisexual.html


Funny enough, of all the issues we have in our marriage, this one has literally never been one. If only the rest of our relationship could work as smoothly!


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Lucy, I'm glad to hear you found the information on BPD warning signs to be useful. I wish you and your H the best of luck.


I plan to seek out a psychologist, and I am also on the hunt for a support group in my area. 

Thanks again!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Emotionally abusive.

They rarely change. They get worse over time.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Emotionally abusive.
> 
> They rarely change. They get worse over time.


This is what I often hear....and what scares me.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Emotionally abusive.
> 
> They rarely change. They get worse over time.


I will also add verbally abusive.

Do you have children?

Does he treat other people the same way?

Whether he is BPD, bipolar or whatever the Hell is wrong with him, you are describing partner abuse. Read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. You keep trying to "fix" someone who doesn't want to be fixed.

How is that working for you?

If you read the book mentioned above, you will see that partner abusers need intensive individual counseling, anger management, group therapy, etc. & even then rarely stop abusing their partners. Your husband is internally rewarded every time he abuses you. He feels in control of you. 

I understand how much you want your marriage to work & for him to be "nice" to you. I was you for 22 years. The ONLY way I got the abuse to stop was by leaving.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Emerald said:


> Do you have children?


Yeah, that's a biggie. It is NO good if kids grow up seeing this dynamic and thinking it is normal.



Emerald said:


> I was you for 22 years. *The ONLY way I got the abuse to stop was by leaving*.


:iagree:

And good for you, Emerald.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Emerald said:


> I will also add verbally abusive.
> 
> Do you have children?
> 
> ...


I will check out that book for sure, thank you. 

At this point I am still vested in making my marriage work. Counselling and therapy have been successful for us, but I do know that it is something we will likely have to do for the duration of our marriage. 

I understand that a lot of the times the answer is to leave, and please do not think I am discounting your experience or advice. I have considered leaving plenty of times. I just can't live in limbo, wavering back and forth from wanting to leave to wanting to stay because it causes me an unhealthy amount of stress.


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