# My Wife Left Me... I need her back.



## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Hello,

I'm gonna try and be as clear as possible as I am looking for a way to stop all this from happening.

I have been married for almost 3 years, living with her for almost 4. 2 weeks ago we had our final argument, she called the cops and left. She doesnt want to talk to me at all.

My wife and I have been through some serious ups and downs in almost 4 years, nothing has been easy but we have been able to work together and work through the whole situation. Like every couple out there we have arguments and fights. One thing is I have a serious temper control problem. When i'm about to blow up I yell and have even gotten to the point of breaking stuff and throwing stuff. One time a few years back we had a physical argument but she wanted to move past that quick so we went to our church and spoke to our pastor and he helped us. We had other issues with time but not ever like that one. My wife at times has an attitude problem but thats no excuse for my anger and temper control loss. For some time now she had been telling me to get help that she loves me and thinks I need help controlling my anger, but since after she says that things always calmed down I just thought she was saying it so id calm down and I just leave it at that.

About a month ago she sat down with me and told me out of the blue that next time I had an angry outburst or broke anything she will call the cops and leave me. Well On a monday I was having the most miserable day ever and to make it worst I picked a fight with her. I even mentioned divorce, when i got home she said that she will give me the divorce and she started to look for things in her drawer. I was so mad she actually said she wanted the divorce that I just threw everything from the dresser on the floor and she went and got her cell and called the police, at that time I was even more angry and just broke a mirror. I asked her just to leave, to go somewhere else to please dont call the cops. I know I could have taken her phone away and tried to reason with her but I was so mad I just stood there while she talked to them. I then got scared and mad but called my mom and calmed down. Cops came, she left no harm done. Next day I see her walking to the bus stop by our apartment and ask her to talk and she got in our car and we talked on the way to her job. But got no where.
Next day she shows up with more cops to finish taking her things. I was then destroyed cause she didnt even look at me. The cops told me she didnt want me calling her, texting her, emailing or any type of communication. No restraining order was filed because I didnt threaten her or touched her. 

Her mom said she would not come back so I turned in our apartment and sold everything for pennies just so I didnt have to endure a long sad move. The rest of our stuff that didnt sell I just gave away. Being in the apartment made me depressed, I spend a full 7 days with about 4 hours of sleep all together. I ate maybe 3 times. 

Since our wedding day it hasnt been easy, we had our first marriage fight in front of some family on our wedding day (not a good start). But we always fought for stupid little things but when it was time to be a strong and focused couple and handle big things, we where always able to do it without any trouble. Just little things always sparked hell.

On February when I traveled to a family event, she stayed home and called me and said she was going to join some group and that it was important for her to do it. She waited till I was gone to tell me. After the first weekend in that group she said she had discovered stuff about herself. After 2 weekends in hat group she said they where like her family. Since then she has insisted non stop to join that group and i was about to just for her until insisting got a little too intense. To go to that stuff you have to pay hundreds of dollars but she always said that it is worth it because it helps her. Ive seen her very distant from the relationship after she joined even more when I told her to choose between them and our marriage.

Besides my temper, I have always been there for my wife. I always make sure she doesnt need anything, I woke up in the middle of the night just to see her sleep( she is beautiful). Since we have been together we have never been in any type of need or had any bad situation. I make sure she isnt late for work, that she is comfortable. Lately ive been stressed because my salary got cut, I left my job, I opened my own company and been taking the stress out on her. Ive been grumpy and not smiling at all.

Even when I'm mad Im happy on the inside because I love her and have her even when I dont show it. Since she left I have been seeking all the help I can, its been only 2 weeks but I am crushed.

I finally got to talk to her and she said she didnt love me anymore. That everything that is happening to me is consequence of my actions, its like she really wants me punished.

I told her that I will change and regardless if we fix things or not I need to change some things about myself. But I told her i wanted another chance. That we could try something slow and if she saw no change we can just walk away. I will join church groups, I have been going to church more, I will be getting professional help as well. But this is crushing me so bad, I cant take it. I know its mostly my fault but not on purpose. I love her to the end of times and back. I now realize I was stupid, but I think its too late....

Any advice?
Please help!!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My first thought is that you should have been seeking professional help long ago for your anger issues. She gave you a very clear "last chance". You blew it. Now it might be too late. If she was my daughter, I'd encourage her to keep you out of her life. 

Having said that, your best bet is to actively pursue getting help. Do it for yourself, not just to "win her back". There's a chance that over time, she might see that you've changed, and give you another "last chance". Other than that, I've got nothing. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> My first thought is that you should have been seeking professional help long ago for your anger issues. She gave you a very clear "last chance". You blew it. Now it might be too late. If she was my daughter, I'd encourage her to keep you out of her life.
> 
> Having said that, your best bet is to actively pursue getting help. Do it for yourself, not just to "win her back". There's a chance that over time, she might see that you've changed, and give you another "last chance". Other than that, I've got nothing.
> 
> ...


That part I get now, but I dont have a way to explain, my anger and temper was rarely it wasnt a daily, weekly or monthly part.
I just realized she is the love of my life, and I cant lose her, not too many women like her out there.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

manny315 said:


> That part I get now, but I dont have a way to explain, my anger and temper was rarely it wasnt a daily, weekly or monthly part.
> I just realized she is the love of my life, and I cant lose her, not too many women like her out there.


You're making excuses for your past behavior, IMHO. ONCE was too often. You got in a major fight ON YOUR WEDDING DAY. She gave you a VERY clear "last chance". What did you do about that?

My advice still stands. Start trying to fix yourself FOR yourself. Not for her, or anyone else. But if you don't fix yourself, you're doomed to continue this relationship pattern. Unless you find someone so beaten down that they're willing to accept your abuse. Because make no mistake, you are abusive. 


C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

All you can do is work on yourself and once things calm down you can try to reach out and communicate.

The way you liquidated your common property was self destructive. She owned half of the stuff and you just wiped out her share. That will something more to quarrel about if you attempt to reconcile.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Acting out in anger to a woman is a death sentence for your relationship.

Remember that for future relationships. Get help.


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## CrazyBeautiful1 (Oct 21, 2013)

Work on yourself, focus on yourself, take care of yourself. She is not responsible for YOUR behavior. Changing yourself to suit HER will not benefit you...Trust me.

I've spent almost 10 years changing myself to better my relationship. Turns out, I wasn't getting anywhere because he needed to change.

The only positive here is that you have seen your worst, and now you can act on it and improve upon it. But don't do it for HER, do it for YOU.

I understand you are upset, it is truly devastating to lose the person you promised to stay with forever.. But, fighting on your wedding day should have been your first warning.

Don't lose yourself in this.. Better yourself, for yourself. If she comes back, awesome. If you make changes and find yourself in an even better relationship down the road, even better.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> You're making excuses for your past behavior, IMHO. ONCE was too often. You got in a major fight ON YOUR WEDDING DAY. She gave you a VERY clear "last chance". What did you do about that?
> 
> My advice still stands. Start trying to fix yourself FOR yourself. Not for her, or anyone else. But if you don't fix yourself, you're doomed to continue this relationship pattern. Unless you find someone so beaten down that they're willing to accept your abuse. Because make no mistake, you are abusive.
> 
> ...


Im not making excuses for my behavior, I focused on my problem so I can get some advice, I am a very calm and dedicated person, just like some humans I blow up harder than others. I have been a loving caring person all along and thats why we remained together.

On our wedding day she was the one who went crazy because she didnt want any help from anyone and it blew up on her, thats been one of our issues, she wants to be more independent than she really is and if it doesnt go her way it turns into a blame game. We have had so many issues most resolved but the stupid little ones kept messing us up.

I am in no shape or form abusive. I am a very protectant person. When the cops came she made it seem like I was abusive but they found no reason to act against me. I didnt touch/ threaten or endangered her. They couldnt find cause for a restraining order. I've been doing some soul searching and getting some help. But honestly after she joined that new group of people and she even works with some of those girls she has changed.
She told me once that her coworker had joined a group and went crazy and left her husband... 3 months later after my wife joins that group she does the same.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

What group?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> All you can do is work on yourself and once things calm down you can try to reach out and communicate.
> 
> The way you liquidated your common property was self destructive. She owned half of the stuff and you just wiped out her share. That will something more to quarrel about if you attempt to reconcile.


Like most couples we have split expenses in our apartment. 
For the past few months she has been spending on herself and the group she joined. Came time to pay he side of stuff, she left I couldnt pay the rent because I had not accounted for since it was her share to take care of. I sold everything because she told the cops she didnt want anything. I didnt want to stay there. I gave her the chance to put stuff in storage, she didnt want anything. Her personal stuff left behind I gave to her friends to give her. Walking in to the apartment made me depressed, I cried 5 days straight it was hard on me as well.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

manny315 said:


> Im not making excuses for my behavior, I focused on my problem so I can get some advice, I am a very calm and dedicated person, just like some humans I blow up harder than others. I have been a loving caring person all along and thats why we remained together.
> 
> On our wedding day she was the one who went crazy because she didnt want any help from anyone and it blew up on her, thats been one of our issues, she wants to be more independent than she really is and if it doesnt go her way it turns into a blame game. We have had so many issues most resolved but the stupid little ones kept messing us up.
> 
> ...


Let's see... Physical arguments, breaking stuff, throwing stuff, knocking everything off the dresser, breaking a mirror... Sure sounds abusive to me! Whether the cops could do anything or not, I'd do everything I could to prevent my daughter from going back to you.

And this last argument is after she gave you your final chance. You were in a bad mood, picked a fight, then blew up. 

I got nothing for you, other than work hard on yourself, for your own sake.

C


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

ThreeStrikes said:


> What group?


I dont know how to explain, she was persuaded by this girl that works with her to join. You pay from $250 a weekend to $500 and also have to have conference calls at weird times. They send text messaged 24 hours a day.

Its supposed to be a group to better yourself. But when you ask what is it about, they tell you they cant say but that you have to do it, that you need to do it. They insist way too much. After she joined she has been calmer, and distant. She says she wont fight back anymore but she still starts the arguments and then when the fight starts she will walk away. No talking or trying to solve anything. Before we would talk and get somewhere, after that communication shut off completely!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> Let's see... Physical arguments, breaking stuff, throwing stuff, knocking everything off the dresser, breaking a mirror... Sure sounds abusive to me! Whether the cops could do anything or not, I'd do everything I could to prevent my daughter from going back to you.
> 
> And this last argument is after she gave you your final chance. You were in a bad mood, picked a fight, then blew up.
> 
> ...


The physical argument: she came drunk home at 7:30 am and started arguing and telling me to go at her. Its not a fight or a beating. she came at me and i pushed her on the couch(not what people think, I wouldnt hit her).

I am pointing out only my behavior there is a reason why fight started, I dont want to say anything bad about her. But it takes 2 to get there. I am pointing out my flaws and focusing on them, I am not abusive. I have been a few times explosive but never abusive.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

I already know and i'm aware of needing help, that is why I seek it. 
But I never realized I would miss her so much. I love her and feel miserable for not listening to her. I feel like crap for what she is going through. My whole family is in on helping me. But I believe its too late now for anything. I would give my last breath to be with her again!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She left two weeks ago. What have you done since then to work on yourself?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

So I am new to this forum, and will start a thread soon with my own story, but I can tell you coming from a somewhat abusive past, Manny, whether you label it yourself or not, these are classic signs of abuse and being abusive. Whether or not you have laid a finger on her is beside the point. A calm, collected, non abusive individual would not have the anger and impulse control issues that you clearly have. 

I am not (nor is anyone on this thread) trying to belittle you or be negative to you, it's simply a matter of fact. From everything I've learned after reading everybody's posts on here, we are all on the same team, and are all here to help each other. One individual's struggle, may be another one's learning experience, just by learning about it. You'll read through these posts and threads and see that you are learning information about yourself that you never even knew. Stuff that even your ex spouse for x number of years couldn't help you figure out. You'll go through the books and the experiences and the check lists and realize, "wow, this describes my actions perfectly." The experience as a whole sucks. Big time. But this is the place to go to get started.

With that all being said, it is clear that you need to seek counseling and help. Just because the police didn't do anything, does not mean that nothing innapropriate happened. It means the *police were called*. That's what you should focus on. In a healthy marriage, where both parties are healthy, that should never happen. Regardless of how you got to this point, that is never okay. Man or woman, physical abuse should NEVER happen. 

I find myself struggling with my own anger issues which I attribute to a somewhat self destructive father who also dealth with his own anger issues (and his father before him), and I've come to the point where I know I need to leave the situation if I start "boiling over" with anger. Practice this. Live it. In your day to day life, your job, your relationships, if you become a parent, etc. LISTEN to the advice on here. Don't let the words fall off the page. Take them in. The people on here know what they're talking about. But we are not counselors, we are not teachers, we are others who have gone through either the same or very similar situations.

And lastly, again, seek counseling today. Please keep posting, we'd love to be there for you.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> She left two weeks ago. What have you done since then to work on yourself?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I first called a psycologist And made an appt. Then I started going to our church, the same one that really helped us in the past. I moved back to my parents house in my country. I was on the border of crashing emotionally and physically. I will be going to retreats and taking anger management and family courses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

movinonup said:


> So I am new to this forum, and will start a thread soon with my own story, but I can tell you coming from a somewhat abusive past, Manny, whether you label it yourself or not, these are classic signs of abuse and being abusive. Whether or not you have laid a finger on her is beside the point. A calm, collected, non abusive individual would not have the anger and impulse control issues that you clearly have.
> 
> I am not (nor is anyone on this thread) trying to belittle you or be negative to you, it's simply a matter of fact. From everything I've learned after reading everybody's posts on here, we are all on the same team, and are all here to help each other. One individual's struggle, may be another one's learning experience, just by learning about it. You'll read through these posts and threads and see that you are learning information about yourself that you never even knew. Stuff that even your ex spouse for x number of years couldn't help you figure out. You'll go through the books and the experiences and the check lists and realize, "wow, this describes my actions perfectly." The experience as a whole sucks. Big time. But this is the place to go to get started.
> 
> ...


I like how you write. Thank you.
My whole issue now is preventing the divorce and getting the love of my life back. She has been the only person who has had my back regardless of. 
Does anyone think id be able to get her back?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

manny315 said:


> I first called a psycologist And made an appt. Then I started going to our church, the same one that really helped us in the past. I moved back to my parents house in my country. I was on the border of crashing emotionally and physically. I will be going to retreats and taking anger management and family courses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The way I see it, you're booking your tickets for a trip, which is a good start. It's the only start, for that matter. But now you've got to start making the journey. You need to do this for yourself. You need to do it even if your wife doesn't want to reconcile or see the changes. But it will make you a better person. 

It may also come out that your wife was toxic to you. It wouldn't be the first time that two people who were fine by themselves got together and became fire and gasoline. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> The way I see it, you're booking your tickets for a trip, which is a good start. It's the only start, for that matter. But now you've got to start making the journey. You need to do this for yourself. You need to do it even if your wife doesn't want to reconcile or see the changes. But it will make you a better person.
> 
> It may also come out that your wife was toxic to you. It wouldn't be the first time that two people who were fine by themselves got together and became fire and gasoline.
> 
> ...


I left as soon as stuff happened. To give some time and space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

manny315 said:


> I like how you write. Thank you.
> My whole issue now is preventing the divorce and getting the love of my life back. She has been the only person who has had my back regardless of.
> Does anyone think id be able to get her back?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How exactly are you going to prevent your divorce? Bully her? Harass her? Your goal should be to deal with your anger, let her see that, and see if she comes back of her own free will. Preventing your divorce should not be your number one goal here, because if it was enough to help you would've gotten this help when she made it clear you were on your last chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> How exactly are you going to prevent your divorce? Bully her? Harass her? Your goal should be to deal with your anger, let her see that, and see if she comes back of her own free will. Preventing your divorce should not be your number one goal here, because if it was enough to help you would've gotten this help when she made it clear you were on your last chance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Whoah... I want to prevent divorce but on good terms... I left the country. Ive only talked to her twice in almost 3 weeks. I am seeking help from profesional and christians. Answer me this... how many people seek help when told? And how many people seek help once theyre in trouble? I waited to long but have not denied anything. I am.open to any type of work and effort. I need that in my life and she is worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Personal said:


> She is not your property, she can divorce you as she pleases, she has every right to feel safe in all of her relationships. Yet she evidently wasn't safe with you.
> 
> At the end of the day it isn't enough that you are 'getting help' or are sorry for your behaviour. Since until you are no longer that violent man, you will always be a danger to her wellbeing (this can't be changed overnight or over a few weeks).
> 
> The only reason why you should be seeking help for your behaviour is so that you will stop being that violent person. If your doing it because you see it as the only way you to get your wife back, your doing it wrong!


Some people like you obviously interpret stuff your way. I have had very few times that this has happened. Different reasons, I am pointing out my problems, obviously when couples fight it is between both of them. I am pointing out my problems since I feel And know I did wrong. She also has done stuff but I want a resolution, I want to avoid a divorce out of love and not possesion. We have been through so many ups and downs and have built something big from the ground up. We have put so much effort into the relationship I know we can do better in the future. I know writing my share about my problems makes me seem like a monster but I am a very mellow and calm person. Well until all thats bottled up blows up.I can play the blame game but I choose to point at my flaws and seek advise and help rather than blame her for my behavior or make up excuses. I am a person with anger management problems, I am not a violent person or an abuser. If she was afraid of me then she had a weird way of showing me because she would defy me at times and still I would do nothing.I am seeking help for my own sake... but in the process I want her back. She is my rock and my point of focus. She guides me into thinking before acting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

manny315 said:


> Does anyone think id be able to get her back?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You need to lower the priority on that thinking. 

In every relationship there are my issues, your issues and our issues. It sounds like her issues irritate you (perhaps for good cause, but that's not the point, yet.). But your issues are too much for her, so she is out. You can work on your issues. Those are the ones you can fix. Focus on them.

Do not focus on "winning" her back. If you love her, be understanding of her reason for leaving. Wish her well and give her the space she seeks while you focus on you. If she loves you back she will be watching. If not you are wasting your time pursuing anyhow.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Manny,

You've gotten so really good advice here. It's up to you how you use it.

She sounds sensitive to anger; different people have different tolerance levels. She warned you. 

I don't think you're a bad person. You express your anger in a way that some might find unsettling. Learn from this. 

There's a knee jerk reaction in the world today that says all expression of anger is equal to violence. That's not true. But some people are sensitive to angry outbursts and outward expressions of anger; you might think you're just venting, but others might see it as a precursor to physical violence. And it goes both ways for men and women. 

Times are changing and there's a lot of attention to anger and violence in relationships. If she was telling your story to her family and friends they could easily say you sound like a bomb waiting to explode. 

I'm not saying you are, but some could think that. 

It doesn't mean it's true, but it sounds like you are acknowledging that you don't control your emotions well. That's good that you can recognize this, it means you can see how your behavior might be viewed by others. 

If you want to be viewed as calm and peaceful, then behave that way. If people see you yelling, swearing, and smashing things they view you as angry----they don't see you as a good person who is angry at that moment. Most people don't like anger and it's a turn off for a lot of women.

You have to find a better way to manage your anger.

You can change if you want to. Do it for yourself. Like the others have said, don't try to change just to get her back. She'll see right through that and she will view it as a ploy which will only drive her away more. She's hurt and sad right now. She doesn't trust you. Her ultimatum was a little unfair because she must have known you had a temper, but the problem for you is that she sees this as hopeless and only getting worse.

Maybe she'll want you back if she believes you've honestly changed but that's not up to you. The only thing you can do is fix yourself.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Smashing things is violent and intimidating, sugar coating that it isn't going to change the behaviour.

I am not some shrinking violet who is horrified by anger, I have been in plenty of brawls and more. I was also an Infantry Platoon Sergeant so have some knowledge of the deliberate application of considerable violence.

I've also known a few abusive people and some of their victims who required safe housing from people who are great guys except when they happen to blow up.

His behaviour is what it is, he needs to grow up, take responsibility, get help and stop being that kind of person.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Personal said:


> Smashing things is violent and intimidating, sugar coating that it isn't going to change the behaviour.
> 
> I am not some shrinking violet who is horrified by anger, I have been in plenty of brawls and more. I was also an Infantry Platoon Sergeant so have some knowledge of the deliberate application of considerable violence.
> 
> ...


If a person gets a letter, opens it, reads it and then smashes a hole in the wall out of anger from the letter's bad news, they've committed an act of violence. ..against the wall they smashed, not against the person who may have witnessed the event. However, the person who saw it can easily feel threatened. That was the point of my response. My point wasn't to rug sweep or sugarcoat. 

I don't know the OP or her, but I know they are hurting and I hope everything works out for them. I think the OP realizes his mistakes and he wants to change. That is a good thing. No point in persecuting him. He's human and he's made a mistake. 

Btw, Thanks for your service. I was in the military too (also a platoon sergeant), so I know all about anger and violence and how different people react to it in their own way.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> If a person gets a letter, opens it, reads it and then smashes a hole in the wall out of anger from the letter's bad news, they've committed an act of violence. ..against the wall they smashed, not against the person who may have witnessed the event. However, the person who saw it can easily feel threatened. That was the point of my response. My point wasn't to rug sweep or sugarcoat.
> 
> I don't know the OP or her, but I know they are hurting and I hope everything works out for them. I think the OP realizes his mistakes and he wants to change. That is a good thing. No point in persecuting him. He's human and he's made a mistake.
> 
> Btw, Thanks for your service. I was in the military too (also a platoon sergeant), so I know all about anger and violence and how different people react to it in their own way.


Thank you so much. I dont know if its me or my emotions but I focused on my problems and spoke only about mines because those are the ones I could change. If my wife comes back or not. But if I love her why am I going to give up in her? We have had 90% great times and some bad. Every couple goes through some rough patches. If I focus on her too much now, maybe its because it just happened almost 3 weeks ago and im still hurting.
Once I see progress in me I will try to get in touch with her, but only when I have something to prove, Im not gonna contact her and make empty promises or promises she might see as just words.If she sees im different then there might be a chance of fixing stuff, if she doesnt i will move on. But my focus is on releasing all the anger inside and learning how to control my emotions...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Manny. Remember, the individuals on this forum are only here to help you, noone wants to make you feel bad about yourself. If everyone did that, then noone would post. I would recommend reading through some of the other threads, the first ones I started with were Pictureless' thread and Wantwifebacks thread. 

Puts things into perspective. I (along with many others on here I'm sure) go back and forth every single day with whether or not I want to "win" back my ex or just move on with my life. It's very clear to me that she wants to move on with hers, and I just can't let it go. We have three kids together, and that requires us to at least have a little bit of contact, but parts of me wish that didn't have to be the case. Obviously I love my children, and this is not a wish that they weren't around, but only sadness that having them makes it harder for the relationship to take it's natural course without us interfering.

Don't interfere, let the chips fall where they may. Work on yourself, work on yourself, work on yourself. When you find yourself doing something good, don't think "man I wish she could see this right now." For your future, with or without her, you need to work on yourself. The anger issues could have a deep rooted cause like something that happened in your childhood or just a chemical imbalance. There's a ton of ways to fix the issue and move forward in a healthy manner. As many threads you'll see will tell you, don't change for her, change for you. If she sees your change and sees that she can trust you again and wants to be with you, awesome. But don't count on it. From what I've seen and experienced myself, 9 times out of 10, the deed is done, the papers have been filed, she is moving on, she is seeing other people, etc. 

I know everyone's situation is different, but it's amazing if you really sit down and read some of these threads how similar all of our situations are. 

Don't stop posting. You need to be open to new ideas, because right now (been there and still am), you are stuck in your head, and can't seem to find the open door to get the heck out.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

movinonup said:


> Manny. Remember, the individuals on this forum are only here to help you, noone wants to make you feel bad about yourself. If everyone did that, then noone would post. I would recommend reading through some of the other threads, the first ones I started with were Pictureless' thread and Wantwifebacks thread.
> 
> Puts things into perspective. I (along with many others on here I'm sure) go back and forth every single day with whether or not I want to "win" back my ex or just move on with my life. It's very clear to me that she wants to move on with hers, and I just can't let it go. We have three kids together, and that requires us to at least have a little bit of contact, but parts of me wish that didn't have to be the case. Obviously I love my children, and this is not a wish that they weren't around, but only sadness that having them makes it harder for the relationship to take it's natural course without us interfering.
> 
> ...


Until now she hasnt or will not file for divorce. I am in my country with my family. She has no way of seeing me or me seeing her. I am far away to deal with me, to give her space. I believe its much easier that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Like Movin just said, work on you. For your sake, not hers.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You ARE abusive. You have a pattern of it. Just because it doesn't happen daily or weekly doesn't mean it's not there. The fact that you don't recognize it or accept it means you're not owning your issues yet. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> You ARE abusive. You have a pattern of it. Just because it doesn't happen daily or weekly doesn't mean it's not there. The fact that you don't recognize it or accept it means you're not owning your issues yet.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How exactly did you learn about my issues? I posted them here. I am accepting what I have done and looking for a way to fix it. Abusive will be a recurring thing, in 4 years 4 times I would believe id be angry and violent. Abusive no. But thats how I view it. But I own up to everything ive done. I have a family that is backing me up and helping me get through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

And again, having dealt with anger issues in the past with myself, you need to figure out the "triggers" of what causes those rapid changes in emotion and anger. One of those is obviously your wife, and you'll want to consider that before ever reestablishing contact with her. Right now, best thing for you is No Contact. Hard as He** but soooo worth it. Any time I've tried to do that, I've just had a much better day. Negative emotions will still occur, but I can get through the day a lot better. Every day, you'll notice a slight (even tiny) change in yourself and your life for the better. Playing the blame game won't help at this point, worry about yourself.

You don't have kids together correct?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

movinonup said:


> And again, having dealt with anger issues in the past with myself, you need to figure out the "triggers" of what causes those rapid changes in emotion and anger. One of those is obviously your wife, and you'll want to consider that before ever reestablishing contact with her. Right now, best thing for you is No Contact. Hard as He** but soooo worth it. Any time I've tried to do that, I've just had a much better day. Negative emotions will still occur, but I can get through the day a lot better. Every day, you'll notice a slight (even tiny) change in yourself and your life for the better. Playing the blame game won't help at this point, worry about yourself.
> 
> You don't have kids together correct?


She has a daughter which is more attached to me than her. That hasnt made it easy either.
But I have cut all contact with her. I will fly home next month and get more of my stuff. I will see then if its worth trying and get in touch with her, if not Ill just keep sending my stuff tonmy country and start over myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Manny, 

Just a short answer to this question: have you ever hit her?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Blunt truth Manny.

1. Have you ever hit her
2. Have you ever pushed her
3. Have you ever considered doing 1 or 2
4. Have the police been called and if so, how many times


If yes is the answer to any of these questions, I would advise you to cut all contact, avoid a potential restraining order, and file for divorce. Even if she took you back, there's no saying what would happen in the future, as it seems like things have only escalated, and never positively changed in your relationship. It's one thing to be emotionally abusive (been there) but another to use physical contact to yourself, to others, or to objects around your SO to show how angry you are. Not healthy, not cool, not a good relationship. You miss her. You miss her daughter. You want things to be the way they used to. I have to be honest, and again, speaking from experience and those on here as well, I just don't see how that's possible. *The past cannot be undone*. It's as simple as that. It could take her years to get over how upset she was about the relationship. It could take even longer for you. This is only my opinion and I'm certainly no professional, but judging by both of your actions according to what you've posted already, I would say the marriage is over. You both have a lot of work to do. She was in an abusive relationship and stayed there (all too common), and you were in an abuse relationship and never seeked the right help, picking fights instead of working on the issues when she gave you one last chance.

I say again, I am not trying to be a jerk or negative, but this needs to be something you consider.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

He's already said that he pushed her down once (onto a couch, I believe). He's also smashed property and swept everything off of a dresser during their last argument, which he picked after having a bad day. And after she gave him one last chance.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

You both need time to look at what has happened without putting pressure on each other. So as you say you are doing leave her be. Take the time to learn to handle your emotions. So that you don't bottle them up till they burst.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

movinonup said:


> Blunt truth Manny.
> 
> 1. Have you ever hit her
> 2. Have you ever pushed her
> ...


No and No. She only called the police recently but even then she was acting out of impusle or bad advise. Cause when they came after they harrased me sooo much they only told me to let it boil over and try to fix it because it wasnt as bad as they thought. Before then no cops and never any hit ot threats .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She is done with you. Do the respectable thing and let her go. And dont treat the next woman the same way you treated her.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> He's already said that he pushed her down once (onto a couch, I believe). He's also smashed property and swept everything off of a dresser during their last argument, which he picked after having a bad day. And after she gave him one last chance.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I pushed a drunk woman away from pushing me to avoid any physical fight. I did not want to get hit or end un in a physical battle it was not an attack it was an avoided fight. I would never hit anyone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

PBear said:


> He's already said that he pushed her down once (onto a couch, I believe). He's also smashed property and swept everything off of a dresser during their last argument, which he picked after having a bad day. And after she gave him one last chance.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! I didn't see that part about pushing her down on the couch. I did read that when he's angry he slams and breaks things.

Manny, is it true? Did you push her?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PBear said:


> You ARE abusive. You have a pattern of it. Just because it doesn't happen daily or weekly doesn't mean it's not there. The fact that you don't recognize it or accept it means you're not owning your issues yet.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The thread title alone SCREAMS control freak.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Wow! I didn't see that part about pushing her down on the couch. I did read that when he's angry he slams and breaks things.
> 
> Manny, is it true? Did you push her?


Here is the deal,

I dont know how many years ago she told me in front of my friends that i can do and go anywhere as long as I was home before the sun came up. Sounds fair. One day she left with her best friend and when I woke up at 7am she still wasnt here. So I call her and tell her to stay at her friends house cause she broke her own rule. She drunkenly started shouting, and asking me what was I going to do. I told her im pissed and just stay with her friend and ill go pick you up later. When she gets home she is slamming stuff and saying stuff. I go out to the living room cause besides pissed im worried. When I go to her she almost runs towards me and wants to push me out of her way, so instead of getting pushed i pushed her momentum towards our couch. I am a violent and angry person not a wife beater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

This is just not a healthy relationship. You should go to IC and anger management before you get into another relationship.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Manny,

I just went back and read all of your replies to all posters. 

I think it would be wise not to contact her anymore. She's scared of you and for good reason. It's one thing to have a short fuse and pound the table once in a while when you're really angry, but it's something else to push someone you supposedly love....even if they are drunk. If they're drunk, why argue with them? You can't reason with a drunk person.

Manny, I'm not trying to judge you as a person, but I think you know what you've done. It's to your credit that you want to change. Start by leaving her alone. Don't try to contact her. 

You've hurt and upset her. If you really love her, let her go. Fix yourself and leave her be. Own your mistakes and the pain you caused her and yourself.

You need to learn from this. You need to learn how to control your emotions. Please seek out help and if you love her, leave her alone and don't try to contact her.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Pamvhv said:


> This is just not a healthy relationship. You should go to IC and anger management before you get into another relationship.


Not healthy at all, I hope he does as you suggest.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

I am not contacting her. I am thousands of miles away as well. I am dealing with my share of problems. I am on here reading and taking advice.
I am seeking help left and right but one at a time. When all this started her mother started talking to me and blaming me for so many things. Then she didnt want to lose contact with me. She started talking about all the good things I had done. As much as I wanted to ignore her she wanted to stay close to me. 
She knew all I'd done for her daughter and all my efforts and work put in to our relationship. My wife and I have worked so hard to move one. When I look back at our fights or arguments they where always stupid avoidable stuff. 

We where working on our issues before and we where getting somewhere. In February she joined some support group and after that they told her that I am not built for her. I had to join the group in order to fix myself. For 2 months she said I had to join that group that it would fix me. She works with members of that group and they are always telling her how to act and what to do. A coworker of her had done what she did a while back, she told me that after that girl joined the group she was happy and never looked back. The funny thing of the so called new friends and family is, that you have to pay lots of money for them to care about you.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

counseling. counseling. counseling. That's all I can say.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

I am posting here to let go of some steam. I know my actions at times where not actions of someone who loves someone else. I messed up by not listening. I regret not listening. I sometimes feel it is late, but then I also have the feeling there is still some slim chance. Through these past almost 3 weeks, I dont eat, sleep or concentrate well. I see a picture of her on my phone and get butterflies. I have deactivated my Facebook and have deleted all pictures I come across.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

How often you get angry and violent is not as important as how you act when you are angry.

You need to realize their are different forms of abuse. There is physical abuse, and, emotional abuse,and, likely more I am unaware of. 

Breaking things and doing things that make your wife afraid without hitting her show you are a man who is emotionally abusive to your wife. Therefore you are an abuser.

You admitted you get violent and angry,you therefore have the potential to become physically abusive,not even including the fact that you have already pushed your wife.

Lastly you do not need your wife. You want her, but that is not the same as need. You only need food, clothing and shelter. It sounds as though your wife does not want you. Fix your problems,so that your next relationship will be a good one. 

Get therapy and counseling. Develop a good support system so you can deal with your anger before you get violent.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

Instead of focusing on getting her back focus on your issues and your pain and how you deal with anger. You'll go back to the same old patterns if you don't. The only way to win her back is to become a better man.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Okay, Manny, I'll offer some food for thought to ya.

1) You are way unbalanced in life. You need to get that fixed ASAP. The good news here is that you seem to know this, somewhat, and you are working on the anger and impulse control problems, or at least you are in the process of starting to address them. It seems to me that you are co-dependent on your wife, and that is also a recipe for instability. You need to get a handle on that, too.

2) You need to make a very crucial and very specific change to your mindset. You think you NEED your wife back. This is not correct. She walked out on you a couple of weeks ago. You desperately WANT your wife back, and that's okay. But you need to understand that these two things are not the same.

3) You need to wander around TAM until you find information on the 180. You should read it over and start living it every day. The purpose of this is to help YOU detach from this situation so that you can get a better handle on yourself.

4) You need to understand that people reach breaking points, and your wife may have reached hers. There may be nothing you can do to get her back. Looking at it from the far outside, it sounds like ya'll don't really make a good couple anyway, so that may be for the best.

5) Regardless of whether things work out between you and your wife, your goal should be to become the most awesome version of YOU that you can. Resolve your anger problems. Own your failures and avoid making those mistakes going forward. Treat your partner with respect. Insist that she treat you the same.

You have family and a church ready to help you, and that's a better start than many people get. If you really want to improve as a person, just do it as well as you can, day by day.

Now go do better!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

lancaster said:


> How often you get angry and violent is not as important as how you act when you are angry.
> 
> You need to realize their are different forms of abuse. There is physical abuse, and, emotional abuse,and, likely more I am unaware of.
> 
> ...


Some people read everything and only point out what they feel like pointing out. If you have someone coming at you will you let them or push them away?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Okay, Manny, I'll offer some food for thought to ya.
> 
> 1) You are way unbalanced in life. You need to get that fixed ASAP. The good news here is that you seem to know this, somewhat, and you are working on the anger and impulse control problems, or at least you are in the process of starting to address them. It seems to me that you are co-dependent on your wife, and that is also a recipe for instability. You need to get a handle on that, too.
> 
> ...


When I say I need, I dont mean im dependent. She was my tag team partner. Issues we have, like every couple. Problems I have a problem and im doing what I have to. If I get her back or not. I would love to be with her till we are old but only in a healthy relationship. If not the God has something else for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

manny315 said:


> Some people read everything and only point out what they feel like pointing out. If you have someone coming at you will you let them or push them away?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seem unable or unwilling at present to accept you are an abuser. Perhaps with help you will eventually see how abusive you were to your wife.

Until you accept how abusive you are, you will never have a healthy relationship with any woman.

By the way I read everything you posted. I suggest you read again what you wrote.

If my wife was drunk and came at me I would leave. I would not be in the same room with her. I would never lay a finger on her, or I would call the police. There are always other options.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

lancaster said:


> You seem unable or unwilling at present to accept you are an abuser. Perhaps with help you will eventually see how abusive you were to your wife.
> 
> Until you accept how abusive you are, you will never have a healthy relationship with any woman.
> 
> ...



I came here for some similar situations and advice, very little people actually pay attention. I have been doing my share of getting help . I only posted and focused on me. On things ive done.

Whoever says you will leave or call the police at that moment is lying to themselves. If my wife is coming at me instrad of hitting her, holding her, forcing her I use her own momentum to push her on the couch before she pushes me harder or attemps to. Because unlike me, she does have history of violence, she in her past has been agresor and a victim. But thats not my business, I came here to look for advice for me not to be pointed at and called abuser. I specified that I am focusing on things I did. Not her. She will get her own advice and help I am getting my help.

I love my wife and like ive stated we are one hell of a team when needed. She loved me now im not sure. I will get my progress done. I will be better.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

manny315 said:


> I came here for some similar situations and advice, very little people actually pay attention. I have been doing my share of getting help . I only posted and focused on me. On things ive done.
> 
> Whoever says you will leave or call the police at that moment is lying to themselves. If my wife is coming at me instrad of hitting her, holding her, forcing her I use her own momentum to push her on the couch before she pushes me harder or attemps to. Because unlike me, she does have history of violence, she in her past has been agresor and a victim. But thats not my business, I came here to look for advice for me not to be pointed at and called abuser. I specified that I am focusing on things I did. Not her. She will get her own advice and help I am getting my help.
> 
> I love my wife and like ive stated we are one hell of a team when needed. She loved me now im not sure. I will get my progress done. I will be better.


Firstly if your wife is wife is a as violent as you say then why would you be want to be with her? Have you heard of the term codependency? Ask yourself " what is it about me that wants to be with a woman like that?"

Secondly, calling the police or leaving the room are very real options. I have seen family members do both in abusive relationships. 

Lastly man there is nothing much more for me to say. If you can justify your behavior, or make excuses for it that is your choice. But IMO do not expect to have a healthy relationship with any woman as long as you continue to do so. Take care and all the best.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

lancaster said:


> Firstly if your wife is wife is a as violent as you say then why would you be want to be with her? Have you heard of the term codependency? Ask yourself " what is it about me that wants to be with a woman like that?"
> 
> Secondly, calling the police or leaving the room are very real options. I have seen family members do both in abusive relationships.
> 
> Lastly man there is nothing much more for me to say. If you can justify your behavior, or make excuses for it that is your choice. But IMO do not expect to have a healthy relationship with any woman as long as you continue to do so. Take care and all the best.


My wife use to be. I found that out later. But she changed alot from what she use to be. But im not here to talm about her problems.

Can anyone really get m looking for advice, not finger pointing or anyone telling me what problem they see or think I have.

I know about my problems and I clearly stated them here. Telling me what you think of me will not be any helpful. There are some people here that are really honest and very straight forward and their words are awesome, there are others that dont help.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

We gave you advice. Seek anger management and individual counseling. It's fine to accept blame but what are your actions going to be now that you've done that?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Pamvhv said:


> We gave you advice. Seek anger management and individual counseling. It's fine to accept blame but what are your actions going to be now that you've done that?


I am seeking all that.
I need a change in my life!!


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

manny315 said:


> I am seeking all that.
> I need a change in my life!!


Then you may have a chance of winning her back.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

I want to share something...
A friend of her called me yesterday asking if I knew anything of her. This is the same friend that let her stay in her house the day she left me. She told me last they heard of my wife she talked to several of her friends asking to join that group but they said no and she got mad at them thinking I told them not to join.
She is distant from all her close friends and only spends time with these new people she met 3 months ago...


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

manny315 said:


> I want to share something...
> A friend of her called me yesterday asking if I knew anything of her. This is the same friend that let her stay in her house the day she left me. She told me last they heard of my wife she talked to several of her friends asking to join that group but they said no and she got mad at them thinking I told them not to join.
> She is distant from all her close friends and only spends time with these new people she met 3 months ago...


Manny, that is really interesting. But this is TAM, and "really interesting" just don't cut it here. I want "totally fascinating."

Tell me how anger counseling is going. Tell me how church was. Did the preacher's sermon give you any insight into getting better impulse control, or being more patient?

Your wife isn't here. You are. I don't care how many times you mention "this group of people my wife joined 3 months ago" while specifically avoiding mentioning the frickin' name of the group. If she's coming home drunk at 7 AM and trying to attack you, she's not a keeper, anyway.

You came here and started this thread. It's YOUR story, not hers. Some posters are spending their time calling you names (you're an ABUSER! Neener-neener, if you don't admit it I'll call you that again). That's a waste of everyone's time, but most of them have also thrown a couple of suggestions on making yourself better in there, too.

We can't help you get your wife back. But we can give you an unusually honest form of feedback on if you're making any progress on being a better YOU. So tell us what you're doing to make yourself better.

If you do that, most of us will tell you that, yes, you're probably getting better. Which will make you feel better. And then somebody might come up with a viewpoint that nobody else had considered, that will give you a shortcut to getting better-er faster-er.

Reading what you've done to make a better Manny315, dude that would be TOTALLY FASCINATING. So fascinate me.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Manny, that is really interesting. But this is TAM, and "really interesting" just don't cut it here. I want "totally fascinating."
> 
> Tell me how anger counseling is going. Tell me how church was. Did the preacher's sermon give you any insight into getting better impulse control, or being more patient?
> 
> ...


Counseling is going good, that is as long as you keep it honest and open. If you keep something to yourself it delays your healing and makes you feel worst (I did it once and never again)

I've been to 2 different churches,
One Christian Back home and one catholic here in my country.
In both of them as surprising as it may seem I feel that God was talking to me. The messages where soothing and directed towards my situation.

The name of the Group is "Lideres" there is absolutely nothing on google about them. I only know the names of the founders and still there is nothing about them. It's something weird. They have many followers and when I visited the place with my wife 100% of them told me at least 5 times each that I had to join.

I have been mellow, patient, calm. Even the angry drivers here cant and wont knock me out of concentration. I see in others now what I failed to notice in myself before. I give advise to those who might needed and its up to them if they use it. My brother for example is more explosive than I am. He is going to end up worst than me if he doesnt listens now.

I decided to stay here in my country but need to fly back home soon to arrange selling on of my stores and sell some of my personal things there. I tried to get in touch with my wife to see what she wants and keep this whole nightmare out of courts but nothing, she wont talk to anyone at all, not even my lawyer or hers, so I'll see where that goes.

I tend to cry at times, I feel like my heart is gonna shoot out of my chest but I calm down and pray and slowly it goes away.

I am going to be in a retreat in June along with my Mom and Stepdad, my bro and sis have done it and say its a life changing experience. 

I hope to at least amused you a little more!


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Manny, I'm not having fun at your expense. Aside from the occasional troll poster, I don't think anyone on TAM finds joy in other people's troubles.

People only post on threads that strike some sort of chord in them.

So please don't think I am mocking you or making light of your situation.

It sounds like you are making really good progress, and all I can say is to keep it up!

If bad drivers don't piss you off, you're doing better than me!

You have a plan, you have some goals, and your plan seems like it will get you to a better place. I have to think that you are on the right path.

I think you are coming to realize that you may not be able to save your marriage. You may not have considered that you might be saving yourself, though.

And, yeah, sorrow and grief are emotions you will be feeling. Just remember that you're going to make it through this sucky part of your life and come out on the other side a better person.

I have found that TAM is a great place to post on if you are feeling bad. Someone will always come along and say some kind words of inspiration. 

Post updates when you have them!

I don't know you in the real world, but your story is one of personal redemption. That's always a tale worth reading!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Manny, I'm not having fun at your expense. Aside from the occasional troll poster, I don't think anyone on TAM finds joy in other people's troubles.
> 
> People only post on threads that strike some sort of chord in them.
> 
> ...


Hello,

It's been over a month, I still havent received any call or text from her. She texted her mom to text me on my bday. I dont know if thats actually a good thing or a kick in the balls.

As for me I've been doing better. Sleeping and eating normal.
When I find myself alone I get depressed and heck.

I've been going out to many places with friends and family and still get sad when I see other couples. Im not in the mood to meet new people.

Ive been constantly praying and going to church. Getting my usual help but I miss my wife with all my heart.

Is this normal? Some days I have more energy than others.

She wont talk to me yet... I am flying back in 10 days and am thinking of taking flowers to her or taking mariachis which she likes to her job...

ANy new advice... really nice advice pls


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Manny, stop contacting her. Don't send flowers. She knows you want her back, and by continuing to push when she's told you you're through makes you look clingy and weak. Keep working on yourself and if she contacts.you then you can work with that. You're looking for ways to force her to respond and you can't do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Manny, stop contacting her. Don't send flowers. She knows you want her back, and by continuing to push when she's told you you're through makes you look clingy and weak. Keep working on yourself and if she contacts.you then you can work with that. You're looking for ways to force her to respond and you can't do that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ive been going to this group and also a therapist she recommended to reach out to her. Basically all I need is to close this chapter. With or without her. She wont file for divorce or talk to the lawyers when they call. She has drifted away from her oldest friends.

I have not yet contacted her or sent her anything. I last texted her for mothers day. But she did reach out to me to say happy bday through her mom... that part confuses the heck out of me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm surprised no one has addressed this "Group" she joined. Paying money for time spent with the group, receiving text messages all day telling her what she should be doing? Frankly it sounds weird, and a bit cultish.

Especially since her big change occurred at the same time as joining the group.

And they seem to have a lot of influence over her. Personally I'd be doing a little investigating into this "group."

Does this group have a name? What is their purpose -- other than to scam money and control people. Something isn't right there.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I'm surprised no one has addressed this "Group" she joined. Paying money for time spent with the group, receiving text messages all day telling her what she should be doing? Frankly it sounds weird, and a bit cultish.
> 
> Especially since her big change occurred at the same time as joining the group.
> 
> ...


Group name is Lideres ( search lideres miami) the part she joined. They have different names all over the world especially latin america.
Ive done research and they keep their stuff very private from online. Somehow they focus on people that are into weird psychology stuff and weak people that seem to need something else.

My wife has called most of her friends to join the group but not a single one has done it and she blames me and stops talking to them... Most of the people who said no Ive never even talked to before.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

manny315 said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's been over a month, I still havent received any call or text from her. She texted her mom to text me on my bday. I dont know if thats actually a good thing or a kick in the balls.
> 
> ...


Manny- good to hear from you, man! From what you write here, you seem to be doing about as good as you can.

Advice? Okay, I'll take it from the top.

"Sleeping and eating normal." Good. When you get back to Miami, stop eating normal. Go eat some new foods at restaurants you've never been to.

You get depressed when you're alone. Try not to be alone. Exercise to the point of exhaustion so that you don't lay awake at night playing mind games. Fill up your days with the people you love that love you back.

Stop being sad when you see other couples. Try to be happy for them being happy. When you find yourself feeling sad, make a conscious choice to find happiness and joy around you. 

You're not in the mood to meet new people. Try to get in the mood to meet new people. And if you find yourself in that mood, try to actually meet someone new. Develop some new hobbies and interests.

Keep going to church. Pray as needed. Read the following joke and laugh-



The Devil got bored in Hell and decided to come up to earth and screw with people. He showed up outside a small church in rural Georgia on a Sunday morning. The church was full, but when he walked in the back door, it emptied quickly.

Satan was pleased, until he noticed one little old man still sitting in the front row.

He stalked forward, leaving burning footprints on the floor, and said to the old man

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM??????"

The old man looked up at him and said

"Yes I do."

This startled the Devil, because he was used to striking fear into the hearts of all mortal men and women." And so he said

"AREN'T YOU AFRAID OF ME?????"

To which the old man replied 

"No, I'm not."

This really set the Devil back, and he asked with all sincerity and curiosity,'

"WELL, WHY NOT????"

"Because I've been married to your daughter for 52 years....."


Manny, you're going to be okay. Just keep your chin up and keep working on being a better you. Everything else will fall into place.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Manny- good to hear from you, man! From what you write here, you seem to be doing about as good as you can.
> 
> Advice? Okay, I'll take it from the top.
> 
> ...


Loved the joke, thanks for the support.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Hello just a quick update.

I will be flying home in 6 days. I still have not had any contact with my wife. She took out money from our account apparently for rent since it was on the 2nd of the month.

I am only going to be in town for a week and wanted to know what you thought about reaching out to her.

My mother and her mother have both told me to reach out to her. But I just don't know how. I mean reaching out doesnt mean I want to get back together but for the past month all our stuff has been in LIMBO. There is a lot of stuff we need to either fix or dissolve. I feel under a lot of pressure since I've made so much progress in over a month and have to get some things settled but she keeps avoiding to make any progress either for divorce or fixing anything. 

Any advice will be well received.!!!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Another update.

Yesterday I talked to my wife via texts and phone calls.
We talked a lot but she mainly focused on how I didnt support her joining her group. How I told some people that where close to her to help me get her away from that group. She told me that I deserve everything that has happened to me. Even when I tell her I accept all my damage to her she still goes on saying Im playing the victim. All I want to do is calm things down, even when I am so calm and relaxed talking to her she says she till cant talk to me. 

After we talked she texted me back some different info. She works with this girl from the group and over a month ago our conversations where the same. She would say something and text something else like someone is really pushing for her to get divorced.

I was able to maintain calm and peaceful during the conversation. No yelling or cursing which was how all our fights ended.

Even when I know my marriage might be completely over I have one bit of hope and faith that it could be saved but she just wont budge and I cant try to push it on her. I am willing to go to Marriage Counseling and go through whatever process I have to to fix my broken marriage. Besides all that went on between us I realize that she is the one for me. After some therapy and church going I know I love her and will do anything for her, but she doesnt want to anymore so I might have to keep my desire to myself


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

manny315 said:


> Another update.
> 
> Yesterday I talked to my wife via texts and phone calls.
> We talked a lot but she mainly focused on how I didnt support her joining her group. How I told some people that where close to her to help me get her away from that group. She told me that I deserve everything that has happened to me. Even when I tell her I accept all my damage to her she still goes on saying Im playing the victim. All I want to do is calm things down, even when I am so calm and relaxed talking to her she says she till cant talk to me.
> ...


What ist he name of the "the group"? How are they contacted? Do they have a website? A contact phone? Who is there leader? What are they about? What is the purpose? Objective? methods?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

ScrambledEggs said:


> What ist he name of the "the group"? How are they contacted? Do they have a website? A contact phone? Who is there leader? What are they about? What is the purpose? Objective? methods?


Lideres is the name... the site is lideresmiami dot com. (305) 303-7097
They apparently help you or say they help you... It costs more money than therapy and once people do it most are like zombies saying the same thing.

She said yesterday that they are the best thing to happen to her in her life. And she would like me to give it a try. WTF


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

manny315 said:


> Lideres is the name... the site is lideresmiami dot com. (305) 303-7097
> They apparently help you or say they help you... It costs more money than therapy and once people do it most are like zombies saying the same thing.
> 
> She said yesterday that they are the best thing to happen to her in her life. And she would like me to give it a try. WTF


It looks pretty harmless--not like cult or anything. She might be influenced by them a good deal but there are worse things to into. I guess it sort of looks like scientology without the mumbo jumbo and pseudo science. No telling if they are doing any harm but I doubt it. 

Would participating in this be a good way to see what it is really about and understand what she is going through? 

Also, it seems like this group is a challenge to whatever sense of control you have in the relationship and that you feel threatened by it.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

ScrambledEggs said:


> It looks pretty harmless--not like cult or anything. She might be influenced by them a good deal but there are worse things to into. I guess it sort of looks like scientology without the mumbo jumbo and pseudo science. No telling if they are doing any harm but I doubt it.
> 
> Would participating in this be a good way to see what it is really about and understand what she is going through?
> 
> Also, it seems like this group is a challenge to whatever sense of control you have in the relationship and that you feel threatened by it.


I never had or wanted any control of the relationship. We have been a great team. But she always wanted to join this stuff and wanted me to join. She told me that she will find someone who likes that with her one day. Before it was fun cause we liked different things now after they said im not the right person for her she changed some stuff.

Dont get me wrong you learn a lot of things here but they tell you to get away from people once they decline to join and this is expensive. If you dont have the money they tell you dont worry the money will come. And yes it did, she stopped paying her bills and home obligations since February.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

After a long night debating and so many days of hating the group, someone called me up and told me to first give it a try before I continue to bash them. They said that it might be one of the best things ever... Seems like zombie talk but hey what the heck, I am gonna try one weekend. 

The reality of the matter is I have nothing to lose but $250... oh and my wife wont know jack about this.!!!


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

manny315 said:


> After a long night debating and so many days of hating the group, someone called me up and told me to first give it a try before I continue to bash them. They said that it might be one of the best things ever... Seems like zombie talk but hey what the heck, I am gonna try one weekend.
> 
> The reality of the matter is I have nothing to lose but $250... oh and my wife wont know jack about this.!!!


Tell them if it's so great it will sell itself, so your first foray needs to be free. Tell them if they have Faith it won't be an issue. 

I'd love to hear the response from that.

Good luck,
V(13)


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Voltaire2013 said:


> Tell them if it's so great it will sell itself, so your first foray needs to be free. Tell them if they have Faith it won't be an issue.
> 
> I'd love to hear the response from that.
> 
> ...


They said yes... :scratchhead:
I can do the basic at no cost, since my wife did it and I had convinced someone as well!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

manny315 said:


> They said yes... :scratchhead:
> I can do the basic at no cost, since my wife did it and I had convinced someone as well!


I have been back here since Tuesday, I have talked to my wife every day and only yesterday I did not see her nor I tried to. When Ive seen her at first she was kinda upset still and distant but the last time we hugged a few times and held hands for a bit. I am sure this is the woman I want to be with. How do I show her that?

Ive been doing good in therapy as well. A lot of progress and honesty.

I am leaving here again on Monday and even if she says yes to fixing the relationship I have to leave because I want that big change for myself. And if I can do it then I can then be sure I can protect her and not hurt her or anyone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What is so great about your wife? Sorry man but she sounds like she is mentally unstable to me. It also sounds like she checked out on you long ago. 

You need to quit looking for her to throw you scraps from her table and stop pursuing her. Maybe if she doesn't hear from you for five or six months she might start missing you. But you have to stop taking the blame for her bad behavior. She accuses you of crap that is not true and you just lay down and let her kick you. That is not being a man. That is not being any kind of man a woman would want to stay married to. 

As for all those money and property issues you are worried about getting settled? A lawyer can take care of those.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> What is so great about your wife? Sorry man but she sounds like she is mentally unstable to me. It also sounds like she checked out on you long ago.
> 
> You need to quit looking for her to throw you scraps from her table and stop pursuing her. Maybe if she doesn't hear from you for five or six months she might start missing you. But you have to stop taking the blame for her bad behavior. She accuses you of crap that is not true and you just lay down and let her kick you. That is not being a man. That is not being any kind of man a woman would want to stay married to.
> 
> As for all those money and property issues you are worried about getting settled? A lawyer can take care of those.


Right now we have nothing. We only have our business. And we both opened that up so its ours.
We have both started from the bottom. We both fought to have something and there was no big problem for us. But when we had little issues we could not communicate well. 
I dont know what it is about her. I spent over a month away and as soon as I saw her I felt butterflies in my stomach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

manny315 said:


> Right now we have nothing. We only have our business. And we both opened that up so its ours.
> We have both started from the bottom. We both fought to have something and there was no big problem for us. But when we had little issues we could not communicate well.
> I dont know what it is about her. I spent over a month away and as soon as I saw her I felt butterflies in my stomach.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, buy a can of Raid. Kill them. This woman is making a chump out of you.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Well, buy a can of Raid. Kill them. This woman is making a chump out of you.


I have come to terms with honesty. I did hurt her badly and there is no turning back the clock. Right now all I want to do is go away until I know im fit to fight for my marriage. Hopefully she will wait for me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If you file for divorce, she might wake up. But she is under the influence of others,

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> If you file for divorce, she might wake up. But she is under the influence of others,
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


She is a very strong person. If I pull that card she will follow through. I want peace no more fights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

manny315 said:


> She is a very strong person. If I pull that card she will follow through. I want peace no more fights.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Update...
Like ive said before, ive seen her and talked to her since ive been here.

I leave once again tomorrow. As much as I would love to go back with her right now I am not willing to either. Like everyone stated at the begining of this thread. I needed help and im getting help. Right now im not in the place or time to be with her and only have a few months of peace and quiet. I want to be able toncontrol myself when any situation arises at any given time in the future. I want to be able to provide safety and security to those around me if its her or someone else. Regardless of influence or not Inlove her but I love myself more and I have to worry about me at this point and let her deal with her. She says its over and we will never be back together and I will take that for now. When I come back I will be in a better place and if she is there then that meansnits God's will and if she isnt it means he has something else for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

manny315 said:


> Update...
> Like ive said before, ive seen her and talked to her since ive been here.
> 
> I leave once again tomorrow. As much as I would love to go back with her right now I am not willing to either. Like everyone stated at the begining of this thread. I needed help and im getting help. Right now im not in the place or time to be with her and only have a few months of peace and quiet. I want to be able toncontrol myself when any situation arises at any given time in the future. I want to be able to provide safety and security to those around me if its her or someone else. Regardless of influence or not Inlove her but I love myself more and I have to worry about me at this point and let her deal with her. She says its over and we will never be back together and I will take that for now. When I come back I will be in a better place and if she is there then that meansnits God's will and if she isnt it means he has something else for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Last update for a while.
So im flying back to my country today.
This morning I woke up and took my wife to breakfast. On the way to pick her up I cried like a baby. When I was sitting there with her, she looked the same as always but our whole conversation she always had something to add about her group. She told me to stop going to anger management and therapy cause that doenst work and wont do me any good, that I should do the same process she did.This is coming from someone who studied psychology and always talked about it. She said that its the best thing to happen to her and I should do it and every damn answer from her had something to do with the group. She was a zombie... well after breakfast I dropped her off at the mall and drove away. I've been blaming myself and feeling worst than I should have. I know I have my issues and anger and violence problems but hell I was in therapy with a guy who actually use to beat the crap out of his wife years ago and they have been doing great. He is like a volunteer councelor. And then she said out of the blue, even if you join us I will never get back with you... soooo that means goodbye. Im being all faithful and loyal to this psycho and she is drinking the koolaid and now wants to be a coach for that group that has taken all her money and mines... so I say.... Imma do my therapy and counceling and if she notices that she lost something great that she speaks out soon or it will be too late. 
SMH I married a crazy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Tell us more about this group. Did you go to their free session? What did you think?

Something about that group strikes a cord with her, and she's in it for a very long time.

Right or wrong, you're not just dealing with your wife, but also with this group. What is the scoop on this group?

Until you have that answer, you will not resolve this issue with you and your wife.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

long_done said:


> Tell us more about this group. Did you go to their free session? What did you think?
> 
> Something about that group strikes a cord with her, and she's in it for a very long time.
> 
> ...


Hello.
No, I did not go. I regret even thinking about going. 
Talking to her was like talking to a bad sales person. In a few months she has made that her life and messed up mines. Besides my temper I was always there for her and her daughter like no one else before. And she seemed to only focus on the very few bad events and exagerate some. She is talking abouy this new found freedom and this happiness but thats all in her head. She is staying with God knows who in their house, sleeping in the floor with money needs cause its thousands of dollars you have to pay that group for a whole process. She is saying she doesnt need me for anything cause that group has shown her everything she needs to but if I want to help her, to help her with cash.

I will file for divorce soon. Even with a broken heart im not gonna put up with that. When we went to counceling 2 years ago they called her a violence enabler and instead of working on that she went to the place where she could pay to hear what she wanted to hear. 
Its all weird to me but clearing up. 
BTW ive been going out with friends and trying to meet new people. Funny thing is I forgot how to flirt and well I dont want anyone now but my friends get a kick outta me trying to talk to girls haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Question...

My wife keeps saying we will never get back together.
She says I hurt her so much.
She might be going through a hard time the way she has been living.
But she is always telling me what I could have done different.
Isn't she supposed to not keep saying that every time we talk?
I mean if she wants a divorce why go through the same thing over and over.
I told her that I wanted to be with her even if she didnt want to be with me. But I did tell her first I was gonna get help for my temper and anger and I would let her know one day when I was ready to start over and have a healthy relationship. She says she will never go back with me ever. I kinda get that but what I dont get is why keep pointing out my flaws over and over and keep mentioning stuff if she really wants out?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

manny315 said:


> why keep pointing out my flaws over and over and keep mentioning stuff if she really wants out?



Because she is hurting, and she wants to remind you of that pain. The best response is to acknowledge her pain, and apologize for your part in causing it. Be willing to do that over and over again. And mean it.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Because she is hurting, and she wants to remind you of that pain. The best response is to acknowledge her pain, and apologize for your part in causing it. Be willing to do that over and over again. And mean it.


I have apologized over and over and dont get tired of doing so. But what strikes me the most is that she says she forgives me but she always sounds upset. Like she wants me to fight back, but I just dont have it in me anymore to fight. I dont want to fight with her anymore. I miss her even when I act like i dont care. 

Hopefully time will heal or fix all of this!

BTW: I will be doing a Religious Retreat with my Mom and Stepdad this whole weekend!!!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

UPDATE!!!
The Retreat was awesome.
I am leaning towards getting my lawyer to send my wife the divorce papers. I really hate to do this but seems we are growing apart more and more every day. She gets upset when we speak. I have always kept calm... 
Im confused... a little help?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

what is this group? can you name it? what do they do in this group


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello Manny.

I have read your entire thread and here are my observations and comments:


Unlike a number of people on this thread, I do not believe that you are violent. You do have an anger management problem, though and you appear to be working on that.

Your wife on the other hand, also seems to have anger problems and more than that, she appears to be entitled in her behaviour - like everything should go her way.

It also appears that the two of you together are like fire and fuel - explosive. Worse than Richard Burton and Liz Taylor! Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger! etc etc

I also believe that (and with the help of her "group") she has rewritten your marital history to amplify the lows and forget about the highs.

Psychology degree or not, you appear to be the more mature and level headed of the two of you.

She needed therapy to start with, and after going to this group, it sounds like she needs even more therapy to undo what they have done first. I wish there was a way to expose the group to the authorities - too many of them being set up all over the place without any control or regulation to stop them preying on people. It sounds like this is one set up to target the Latinos/as.

I cannot fault what you have been doing at all - you seem to be taking all the right steps to heal yourself. Unfortunately, this marriage is not going to be recoverable until she gets fixed and only you know how far from being fixed she is. You appear to be fixing yourself.

You need to set yourself a time limit for putting up with her behaviour. Then face up to her, tell her what you have been doing to better yourself, remind her that she has rewritten your marital history, explain that though you love her she needs to also own up to her side of the problem, mention that you do not think the "group" is helping her as much as she thinks and that she has put herself and her daughter in danger at the moment. Tell her that you are now prepared to move on.

Stay strong Manny and really well done - not much more you can do.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Manny.
> 
> I have read your entire thread and here are my observations and comments:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much.

This has been the hardest thing i've gone through. One day I believe I'm set for life and we have to work together to get somewhere and the next I'm going to therapy being ignored by my wife then when we do talk she seems to be brainwashed.

I have my flaws and wont deny it, but to walk away just like that has burned my insides so much.

I am trying to move on but I know its soon. Every time we talk she ends up getting mad at me for things that happened years ago. That hurts so much.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Unfortunately there is not much more you can do for her Manny. You have to focus on yourself now and hopefully she will see the better you. However, she does need help - professional help - and not the kind she is currently getting - and paying for!

The next time you speak - tell her point blank that you do not wish to discuss the past - only the present and future. If she says that the past led to problems that need to be overcome, agree with her but say this has to be done by professionals. And do not acknowledge that "organisation" as professionals. Say we need to go to real counsellors.

Take care and stay strong.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

A little update.

Ive been going out with my childhood friends. Awesome summer but I hate it. I miss my life and my wife.
Next week would be our 3rd year wedding anniversary and I was thinking of flying over to her and surprising her with flowers at work even when she has told me she wants nothing with me.

What do you guys think?
Im still in love...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She said that she wants nothing to do with you. I think that it's a really bad idea to surprise her. Doing this could be taken as you stalking her.

Do you really want to show up at her work only for her to trash the flowers and avoid you? Really?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> She said that she wants nothing to do with you. I think that it's a really bad idea to surprise her. Doing this could be taken as you stalking her.
> 
> Do you really want to show up at her work only for her to trash the flowers and avoid you? Really?


Shes my wife.
We have never separated.
Her closest friend suggested me to keep going after her.
To make her tired of rejecting me.
Im confused as hell


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Pursue her if you want, but don't do it like a stalker. Do it like a man. 

She called the cops during your angry outburst. That shows she was in real fear of you and what you might do. "Surprising" her will yield one of two results, either you freak her out and she reports you to the cops as a stalker or she sees you as pathetic and weak.

So, what's the manly thing to do? Take inventory of yourself. Was she smart to be afraid of you? If not, then it's over. You can't change her. The only one you can change is you. If there is nothing to change, it's done. If there is some truth to it, then what can you do to tame that anger? A wife needs to feel safe and protected. She needs to be able to express herself with honesty and not fear awakening a monster inside her husband. 

If you can honestly say to yourself that you have that under control, then call her, or write to her. Admit to your mistake. Apologize for scaring her. Tell her you want to work on the marriage, but you understand she is afraid. Ask her if she wants to still be married and what you can do to help her feel safe to give you a chance. 

Then listen. Hear what she says. Decide if you can support it. If you can great. If what she asks is outrageous to you, don't make a disingenuous effort, just let her know that what she asks is not possible and accept that divorce is inevitable.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Pursue her if you want, but don't do it like a stalker. Do it like a man.
> 
> She called the cops during your angry outburst. That shows she was in real fear of you and what you might do. "Surprising" her will yield one of two results, either you freak her out and she reports you to the cops as a stalker or she sees you as pathetic and weak.
> 
> ...


She wasnt afraid of me, she was trying to teach me a lesson. She did to me what another woman from her group did to her husband in a manner of trying to force me to join. I flew back in June and went out with her a few times but our conversations where about how good the group is for her and all the good it had done. If she was afraid of me then getting in our car would have not happened. Thats why im willing to surprise her on anniversary day to see if we can salvage anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

manny315 said:


> She wasnt afraid of me, she was trying to teach me a lesson. She did to me what another woman from her group did to her husband in a manner of trying to force me to join. I flew back in June and went out with her a few times but our conversations where about how good the group is for her and all the good it had done. If she was afraid of me then getting in our car would have not happened. Thats why im willing to surprise her on anniversary day to see if we can salvage anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sounds like you either join the group or divorce her. I suppose option 3 is to expose anything illegal or unethical the group is into.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Sounds like you either join the group or divorce her. I suppose option 3 is to expose anything illegal or unethical the group is into.


Those groups are huge. They are all under investigation but they're really careful with their stuff.

I just dont want to file for divorce without fighting my last breath...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

manny315 said:


> Those groups are huge. They are all under investigation but they're really careful with their stuff.
> 
> I just dont want to file for divorce without fighting my last breath...


Then just join her cult. Problem solved. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> Then just join her cult. Problem solved.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dont sell out.
Im not the best christian but I'm not gonna join that crap.
Its been 3 months and I really do realize I miss her a lot.
Im looking for a real solution and advice, nothing to join that crap


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

manny315 said:


> I dont sell out.
> Im not the best christian but I'm not gonna join that crap.
> Its been 3 months and I really do realize I miss her a lot.
> Im looking for a real solution and advice, nothing to join that crap


You want real advice?
You need to protect your assets and get her out of your business. Lideres is most likely a pyramid scheme cult based on getting people in and fleecing them good. It's only a matter of time before she starts eyeing your business as a potential source of donations for them.

It's time to face facts.
You created a vacuum in your relationship with her and this new "group of friends" saw that and pulled her in.
Instant substitution.

If she is referring to these folks as "family" after two weekends, there is something fishy going on there. It will most likely be very difficult for her to break away from these new friends.

She has said she isnt coming back. 
What you need to do is protect your finances and property.
File and get the hell away from these people as fast as possible.

The only thing they are interested in enhancing is their coffers.

Your wife is going to go Full Sock Monkey on you in about three months.
Gaurd yourself.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> You want real advice?
> You need to protect your assets and get her out of your business. Lideres is most likely a pyramid scheme cult based on getting people in and fleecing them good. It's only a matter of time before she starts eyeing your business as a potential source of donations for them.
> 
> It's time to face facts.
> ...


Sounds very honest!!!
She doesnt have access to any financial stuff because legally they gave her all she wanted and cant ask for more.

But 2 very close people one to her and one to me gave me the best advice they could. They told me to give it one last shot. To go to her on anniversary day with flowers in one hand and just in case divorce papers in my back pocket.

I miss her and love her and im confused if I should try one more time to reach out or just let go of all my life and plans we had and start completely over.


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

You could be my first husband. 95% of the time he was a giant teddy bear, so gentle and loving. But then at times...the temper, the holes punched in walls, the yelling, breaking things, the loss of control. 

I loved this man. I put up with multiple affairs, trying to make it work. I was devoted to him. But the temper caused the divorce, in the end. I demanded he "get help," but he just told the counselor everything she wanted to hear, and nothing changed. I tried, repeatedly, to tell myself he wouldn't really hurt me, that "he'll never do it again." Every time, I told myself that was the last time. One day I woke up and realized, "No, he will do it again. This is going to be your life. Your kids will grow up in a house where Dad is sometimes scary and dangerous. And maybe hurt us. Then you'll have no one to blame but yourself, because you saw it coming, and didn't leave."

I left, and didn't look back. If I knew your wife, I'd tell her to do the same. What would you tell your daughter, if she said her husband was acting like this? Nobody should put up with violent outbursts. If you really loved your wife, you wouldn't want her to, either. 

You can't fix it now. I doubt she will come back. I hope she will not come back...at least not for a very long time, and maybe not ever. You have a lot of work to do on yourself before you should even consider a relationship again. Especially this one.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Faeleaf said:


> You could be my first husband. 95% of the time he was a giant teddy bear, so gentle and loving. But then at times...the temper, the holes punched in walls, the yelling, breaking things, the loss of control.
> 
> I loved this man. I put up with multiple affairs, trying to make it work. I was devoted to him. But the temper caused the divorce, in the end. I demanded he "get help," but he just told the counselor everything she wanted to hear, and nothing changed. I tried, repeatedly, to tell myself he wouldn't really hurt me, that "he'll never do it again." Every time, I told myself that was the last time. One day I woke up and realized, "No, he will do it again. This is going to be your life. Your kids will grow up in a house where Dad is sometimes scary and dangerous. And maybe hurt us. Then you'll have no one to blame but yourself, because you saw it coming, and didn't leave."
> 
> ...


I respect your opinion but If you knew me you'd know I obviously highlighted all my flaws and exaggerated not to make me look like a victim. I have my temper problem but she is the one with the domestic violence background. Since it wasnt with me and she never touched me I dont need to point that out. The only time we did try to get help out of no where she our counselor told her she is a violence instigator and instead of working on that she never returned. She instead joined that group which told her exactly what she wanted to hear. Our plans and family got dissolved.

But after almost 3 months of therapy and counseling I've come to the conclusion that our problems do have a remedy and can be fixed. I am no monster but I am a head of a family a provider and have always been there for them. We are human and make mistakes some more than other.

I really want to fix my marriage cause I care about them and love them. My life was set and on track and one day it vanished. I may seem like all the violent jerks out there. I do care about them and thats why I went far away to get help for me instead of staying there beating a dead horse


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Your idea of showing up with flowers in one and and divorce papers in your back pocket isn't all that bad. I just worry about the 'surprise' part of it. 

I'd tell her you are coming. Let her pick the meeting place, let her bring a friend if she wants for support. The only caveat is you are talking to her, the friend can talk to her or sit by and watch. You are not there to interact with the friend.

When you meet. Tell her you are her husband, and you love her. You married her for better or for worse, and this has definetly been the worst. That you want to find a way to make it work, but the ball is in her court. Put both the flowers and divorce papers in front of her and ask her to choose a path. Tell her you love her enough to let her go if that is really what she wants. But that you are also willing to put in the hard work to reconcile the relationship if she is.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Your idea of showing up with flowers in one and and divorce papers in your back pocket isn't all that bad. I just worry about the 'surprise' part of it.
> 
> I'd tell her you are coming. Let her pick the meeting place, let her bring a friend if she wants for support. The only caveat is you are talking to her, the friend can talk to her or sit by and watch. You are not there to interact with the friend.
> 
> When you meet. Tell her you are her husband, and you love her. You married her for better or for worse, and this has definetly been the worst. That you want to find a way to make it work, but the ball is in her court. Put both the flowers and divorce papers in front of her and ask her to choose a path. Tell her you love her enough to let her go if that is really what she wants. But that you are also willing to put in the hard work to reconcile the relationship if she is.


Sounds kinda good, but we dont need a friend, we went out a month and a half ago by ourselves after the split and nothing bad really happened. 

But yes, I should try both upfront, but I dont want to tell her im going, Ive been there a few times and have ignored the fact she is there, I just go manage my business and fly back. She has no clue as I have not wanted to bother her.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Right now I need good and positive advice.
We all deserve a second chance.
I am ready to get my life back.

I miss my wife and have accepted and am correcting my errors and mess ups.

I want real people advice not doctors and counselors...


Thanks


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## FromEurope (Jun 29, 2014)

I don't know your story, but reading these recent posts you made make's me think that you are the only one thats wants things to workout.... good luck with that.
She seems more commited to her group rather to you, am i wrong?
she shows that she can live fine without you, am i wrong?
she seems to blackmail you... or her way or nothing. am i wrong?

Now tell me,You say that you are madly in love and are willing to give it another try, what kind of love do you expect from her if all the above are correct?


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

> My life was set and on track and one day it vanished.


This. Right here.

You arent in love with her as much as the idealized story you have told yourself. Your focus was on that story and now you cant tell it like it is.
You are clinging to it like a scared child when you should be bending and adapting to the new circumstance.

The whole "Im still in love with her" thing is you not wanting to accept the change. But if you want to stay a member of "The Walking Disney"...who are we to suggest otherwise?

Sure you can show up with flowers. I know exactly how she will treat you. She will humor you and maybe enjoy some time with you, but after that, she will go straight to the group who will bolster her resistance against you and you will have gained nothing.

You want real person advice?
Grow up. Put on your big boy pants and move on with your life.
She may be physically available to you, but mentally she closed the book the day she called the police.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Hello everyone, 

I have the biggest update in my story.

It's been over three months since my separation.
I have been seeking help, counseling and other stuff.
Therapists (the rapists) raped my pocket, giving me useless
information and messed up advice just to keep me coming back in tears. I had been under depression as well. I did not want to accept it. 

Now all of this is not because my wife left, but because I was warned in the past and did not listen on time. I let what we had built get out of my hands and did not stop to actually pay attention to her or what was going on. She asked me to join that group with her in order to try and salvage what was left of our marriage. I just thought it was another crazy idea and brushed it off. After all this happened to me I played the victim part, I played the blame game. And that alone has been driving me crazy because even if I didnt speak it out loud I knew I could have avoided all that.

Well I flew in instead of staying with the idea of bringing her flowers tomorrow for our anniversary I flew in last thursday.
I could not understand what was going on with her and it was only one way of finding out. I joined her group. I am not ashamed of what I am going to say.

It was the most beautiful experience in my life, these people under no circumstances are any of what I read or even thought they where. I take back every single bad word I said about them.
I discovered things about them and myself that have been wrong all along. I am glad i went, because I had no other options left for myself. No more help to seek and no more ways to avoid depression.

They have helped me in ways that I didnt know I needed help.

On my second day during an exercise my wife showed up, but I didnt know she was going and she had no idea I was in town. Well we hugged and at times held hands also danced a little, but before she left she said she will never go back with me. Those words hurt, but then again I have hurt her more than that and I am paying the price for it.

I still feel that there is a chance and if I play my cards right I still have a chance of getting my family back. I am responsible for my actions and have been working on myself to be prepared to wither got back with her or move on.

One thing I tell you is, I am in love with that woman and do pray every day that we can solve this and let it just be part of our past.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> This. Right here.
> 
> You arent in love with her as much as the idealized story you have told yourself. Your focus was on that story and now you cant tell it like it is.
> You are clinging to it like a scared child when you should be bending and adapting to the new circumstance.
> ...


I joined that group last weekend. Not for her but to find answers. The last answer I found was, that theyve been trying to help her save the marriage all along and that she is resisting. She has benefited from the grouo a lot but is still with her mindset of running away from problems and hiding. We had a nice time on saturday before she realised that she was enjoying herself. She then ran out the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Can anyone elaborate on my last 2 updates?

I need someones feedback.

Today is supposed to be our anniversary and Im feeling like crap.

I know now what I could have done before but I didnt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So what could you have done that you did not do?

If she resisted their attempts to get her to save the marriage, I don't think that you joining them would have made a difference. She wants out. 

You need to learn to accept that as painful as it might be.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> So what could you have done that you did not do?
> 
> If she resisted their attempts to get her to save the marriage, I don't think that you joining them would have made a difference. She wants out.
> 
> You need to learn to accept that as painful as it might be.


I went to find out stuff, but did not go to save the marriage. I actually got some help out of it, next week Ill be going back for my final sessions.

I see her resisting on purpose, like trying to prove more than she should.

On sat we held hands, we danced and we hugged.
Everything was fine, but If I even dare to ask about trying to at least start talking she wants out of the conversation quick.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Well, dude... We're all in the same boat you were in before you went down there to meet the group in person. And I doubt many of us are willing to go down there and join a cult just so we can give you advice.

If that's what you feel you need to do, knock yourself out. Personally, I don't have that strong of a desire to be with someone who obviously doesn't want to be with me. But if you want to join for yourself, maybe she'll see what she needs to see in you (over time) to change her mind. But do it for yourself, not to get her back.

C


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> Well, dude... We're all in the same boat you were in before you went down there to meet the group in person. And I doubt many of us are willing to go down there and join a cult just so we can give you advice.
> 
> If that's what you feel you need to do, knock yourself out. Personally, I don't have that strong of a desire to be with someone who obviously doesn't want to be with me. But if you want to join for yourself, maybe she'll see what she needs to see in you (over time) to change her mind. But do it for yourself, not to get her back.
> 
> C


I thought it was a cult, or a separation support group.

But its the opposite. 

I like what I saw there, I'm actually going back next weekend to finish off the process and find the rest of the answers I need!!


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

manny315 said:


> Can anyone elaborate on my last 2 updates?
> 
> I need someones feedback.
> 
> ...


One order of feedback coming right up.

Manny315, pay real close attention, here. I'm going to share a secret with you, something you'll have lots of trouble wrapping your head around.

She.

Doesn't.

Love.

You.


She called the cops on you. She had the cops escort her away from you. She keeps telling you that she doesn't want to have a life with you any more.

You

have only been married for 3 frickin' years to this girl
cried FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT
slept 4 hours in 7 days
just happened to join the same cult as she has
blew off counseling
haven't mentioned church lately, so it seems reasonable to bet that you've blown that off, too.

You're doing it wrong, again.

The harder you chase her the worse you look in her eyes.

Where you're at: "I joined Lideris! She'll REALLY LOVE ME now!"

Where she's at: "Oh, sh!t, he joined Lideris. God, why can't he move on?"


Ready for another secret?

You.

Don't.

Love.

You.

Either.

If you did, you would act differently.

Good luck, person.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> One order of feedback coming right up.
> 
> Manny315, pay real close attention, here. I'm going to share a secret with you, something you'll have lots of trouble wrapping your head around.
> 
> ...


Wow thats the worst feedback any human can give!!!

I blew off couples therapy because they made it worst, anything they advised me to try everything failed and pushed her away.
Anger management I go back as instructed and am doing pretty well. 
Church, I dont think you have to brag about going to church. Bu I have not blown it off either.

After all counseling to help me get back to being me, some people from a place I use to call a cult still called me. It was never about the money to them. They already knew everything that had happened. I kept avoiding phone calls and messages from the people from there. 

Last week I was deep in depression and running out of money for therapy which only made me sadder and sadder. I decided to answer that call from Lideres and well it took me a while but I bought my ticket and flew back. 

From the moment I went in, I was skeptical about it but something told me if you want to get better you cant hold anything back, and well I didnt. Anything I said about them I was wrong, I stood in front of a huge crowd that visited from previous years and I accepted my wrong doing. I apologized to my wife and others who I didnt know but insisted in disrespecting them. I had no clue my wife would show up there as I asked everyone that saw me to keep quiet. She didnt know either. Even if i still love her or not, this was for me. I cannot change the way she feels about me now and I made that happen. I will finish my process and fly back home the day after. I have not tried to contact her or call her specially today which is our anniversary. I have been little by little taken back all the energy focused towards getting her back and focused it all on how I am going to get better. Even if it hurts me I am going to move on.

I have faith that God has a plan for me.
I will not chase her or try to convince her we can still work it out.
I cannot give in and give more than I have done.

But I am slowly at peace with the fact that it might be over.!!!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

UPDATE:

Last night a key person in my wife's life called me up real late.
Her best and oldest friend. She told me how much I need to fight to get her back, because my wife still loves me. She explained that my wife has this behavior and when things get complicated or hard she runs away. 

She and the person my wife is living with now have both told me, that my wife is indecisive and changes her mind often or cant make up her mind at all. That she is obligating herself to believe she is doing the right thing. After all questions and knowing the whole story our problem came down to bad communication. 

When we had problems instead of fining solutions she used her defense mechanism and that was try to push me to the limits.
I let it happen, I lost control of myself and that is why I am working on me. She explained to me that my wife wanted to test me that I wasnt going to be like her babies daddy. And pushed and pushed to see how much I would hold and on 3 occasions I messed up. 

I pray to God that she agrees to sit down and if its with counselors it will be better. Either we fix it and get back together or separate with things being clear.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

I have one or more posts after this one.
I will finish my process with the group Lideres next Sunday.
After that I will turn my back on my dreams and hopes of fixing my marriage.

I failed on my marriage and I failed my wife. She doesnt want to see nor talk to me and thats fine. I cant make her.

I already fought my fight and I am not giving up, I am walking away.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Tomorrow I will start my last 4 days in the group. I am still curious on whats going to happen. Ive been bashing them for months and then here I am basically needing from them. I talked to my anger management therapist and she looked it over and recomended me to join.
As of sunday I told my wife I will walk away and never look back. I know what I did and respect her for rejecting me so much. I messed up on something that could have been awesome. But its like they say, got has something better for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IF it works for you , then I guess that's good.


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## bcc (Oct 8, 2012)

Manny how old are you again? and how old is your wife. I cant go back and read this post again. There are many things I might be able to help you with, you were married 3 years, correct. Also what country are you from? If you hope to get her back there are certain things you need to be aware of. It sounds your relationship was rough. Particularly for her.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

bcc said:


> Manny how old are you again? and how old is your wife. I cant go back and read this post again. There are many things I might be able to help you with, you were married 3 years, correct. Also what country are you from? If you hope to get her back there are certain things you need to be aware of. It sounds your relationship was rough. Particularly for her.


I am 29 and she is 30.
I am from Puerto Rico.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Here's my raw thoughts. 

To you: 
Stay in group and individual therapy. From what I've read in this thread you've made some progress. Good luck. 

To your separated wife: 
If he so much as breathes wrong get an EPO and on the court date ask for a permanent restraining order (which is usually for a term of one to two years, depending the state). Report and prosecute every violation. Never violate it yourself by contacting him.


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Haiku said:


> Here's my raw thoughts.
> 
> To you:
> Stay in group and individual therapy. From what I've read in this thread you've made some progress. Good luck.
> ...


Hello,

Yesterday and today we have had a breakthrough.
We spent both nights together in the group, I had no idea she would be there and she still went. We had a nice time as a separated couple, we found out after we separated we have been listening to the wrong people. 

Today we said our goodbyes and went in different directions. 
I fly home tomorrow. 
One thing this all helped me discover was, that I miss her daughter ( my little girl) more than her at times.

One thing I have barely talked about was her daughter...
Yesterday she ran up to me and hugged and kissed me just like when she as little. Today the same... she took my phone and took pictures with me... SHe told my Ex she wanted to be adopted by me and share custody. 13 Year old saying that.

I am a peace with myself and I have let go. 

to all the negative comments and idiotic feedbaack, Thanks!!

to the rest, YES you are making a difference!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You are making very good progress!!!!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Hello,
Almost 5 months have passed!
I feel lonely and sad at times.
Any advice?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are not with the group but have resumed your normal life, yes?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> You are not with the group but have resumed your normal life, yes?


I am part of the group now, I keep in touch with them, but not as active as others since im back home now.
I live my normal life now, the normal life there is to live here.

One thing is, I do miss her a lot...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Are you divorced now?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Are you divorced now?


Nope, we havent started the process


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Are you divorced now?


Any advice??


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

File for divorce and send her the papers without talking to her. You need to stay away from her so that she cannot hurt you further. 

Are you working out regularly?


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> File for divorce and send her the papers without talking to her. You need to stay away from her so that she cannot hurt you further.
> 
> Are you working out regularly?


Im working out daily,
Im an assistan basketball coach,
Im running my family business.
I go out with my childhood friends,
I try to keep as busy as I can!!!

But working out is awesome, but I miss her at times ffff


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What have you been doing to work on YOUR issues? You know, the ones that caused you to emotionally abuse your wife till she gave you "one more chance", which you then proceeded to use up?

IMHO... Focus on getting yourself healthy for a relationship. Might be with your wife, might not. Then decide on getting a divorce. If your wife won't decide at that point, then you file. You're not going to be able to move forward until you untie yourself from the dock, you know?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Hello,
Its been over a year.
I just re-read all my messages from last year and well... unstable to the max.

I moved back to the states and been volunteering full time with the group.
Have gone out with the wife and even did our final part of the process at the same time.

We are not together but are in a friendly state. All the damage I caused will take time to heal. I also discovered I can actually help others avoid being in my shoes.

Even though its been a year I get butterflies when I see her or even when she texts.

God has a purpose for all of us!!!


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

Almost 2 years have gone by.
I was at a very close stage with her. We went out, talked a lot but one day she popped out with my lawyer will call you for divorce process... Havent seen her since.
I guess I did deserve losing the woman I love. 
I have been doing better for myself. New job traveling the world, new experiences.
I do miss her. I receive texts from her daughter and mom every now and then...
Lately I keep missing her more and dont know why. Also Ive had dreams of her after so long.

I guess she was the one... I just figured all the possible ways to mess her and my life up!


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

manny315 said:


> Almost 2 years have gone by.
> 
> I was at a very close stage with her. We went out, talked a lot but one day she popped out with my lawyer will call you for divorce process... Havent seen her since.
> 
> ...



I don't believe in that "the one" stuff. It's dysfunctional to tie all of your hope on another person. There are many people in the world we can be completely happy with. It's just we, them or us do things to screw it up. 

Are you seeing a therapist? They can help you talk through your feelings. 

If I recall you had some anger issues too. How are you addressing that? It's a pattern you don't want to repeat. You can't just will it away. You'll want help and I hope you are getting it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## manny315 (May 15, 2014)

You are right,
You cant just will it all away.
I finished therapy.
I go back once in a while to touch base $$$
I've been through so many tests. 
Anger has been toned down to a minimum.
Too many consequences to pay. Have been working non stop on that.

When it comes to feelings... I am only human and maybe are flashbacks...
I will not pursue nothing with her anymore.
I am just focusing on making lots of money and travel with work.


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