# Just Friends?



## curiuswife (Dec 31, 2013)

*Just friends?*

What is your take on the conversation (from Facebook) below between my husband and his, allegedly, “Female Friend?” 

Female Friend: No... Anyway, I have to go now... Am tired & sleepy... Good night...
Husband: Ok. Sorry I can't help more from here. 
Female Friend: It's ok, thanks!
Husband: And by the way... you are still sexy hot.  Goodnight!
Female Friend: You should tell your wife that not me.... 
Husband: ???? Ok. So I guess everything going great with you and ur hubby now... 
Female Friend: Yeah, we're fine
Husband: Oh! Well I see...ok. Well things are not so much for me. Still the same if not worse. But I'm happy for u and understand now. 
Female Friend: You have a happy family.
Husband: I have a family. We struggle. And we smile a lot for cameras.
Good night Female Friend!

A little background: This is the second FB convo that I’ve found between the 2 of them. The 1st one has something in it with my husband saying to her something like, “You make me happy. I feel sad when I do not see you around.” I confronted my hubby about it the 1st time and he said they are just friends and that he is just saying those because those are what she wanted to hear. I expressed that he’d better stop it because it makes me feel uncomfortable and then again, the convo above. He is swearing he did not cross the line and did not cheat on me by just saying things like that to her. I said what he did is “cheating.”

Also, our marriage has not been at its best since our son was born 5 years ago. He said I haven’t been giving him any love and affection and I said he hasn’t been helping me around the house and with childcare and that basically killed my love and affection towards him. I work a very stressful job so I need all the help that he could give me but he said he needed downtime from his 12-hour night shift job (he works 7 nights in 2 weeks). 

The Female Friend's marriage, apparently, has also been on the rocks fro some time now.

Thank you for any feedback!


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Your husband is fishing for an affair. He is also disrespecting himself and his family by indicating there are marital problems.

Your husband is the marital problem and kudos to the woman for shutting him down.

Utterly unacceptable and disrespectful.

You have to decide if this is the husband you want. He sounds like an embarrassing fool.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Rugs said:


> Your husband is fishing for an affair. He is also disrespecting himself and his family by indicating there are marital problems.
> 
> Your husband is the marital problem and kudos to the woman for shutting him down.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

curiuswife said:


> What is your take on the conversation (from Facebook) below between my husband and his, allegedly, “Female Friend?” I would like to hear other people's opinion on this as I just could not accept my husband's explanation.
> 
> Female Friend: No... Anyway, I have to go now... Am tired & sleepy... Good night...
> Husband: Ok. Sorry I can't help more from here.
> ...


I would say he is crossing the line of what is appropriate. Looking to see if there was interest. Apparently, there was none at this time. Maybe there was more interest in the past, maybe if he keeps it up there will be more interest in the future. But definitely NOT APPROPRIATE. He KNOWS this. If he says otherwise, he is just playing games with you. EVEN HIS WOMAN FRIEND KNOWS WHAT HE SAID WAS NOT RIGHT - *"You should tell your wife that not me...."*

I think withholding love and affection in exchange for housework is a bad idea, just like I think withholding housework in exchange for love and affection is a bad idea. You are building up resentment for each other.

Bottom line is, you cannot control him, you can only control yourself and what you are willing to accept and what you are not willing to accept in a marriage.

Before this gets any worse, have you tried counseling, or reading any marriage help books? The problems you have seem fairly common.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Just friends?*

My quick take...?

Yes, he's out of bounds...

But...

Your marriage has had something of a Mexican standoff on needs being met and detoriated more than you both realize sice the child was born. Where is the respect and admiration on either side? Both of you need to be the one to blink and put aside resentment or I'm going to Vegas and putting down 3G's on divorce before 2020.

Your collective job situations plus baby / toddler is a recipe to suck the joy out of life over the longer haul. Time to enjoy life? Time for each other? 

I'm sorry I don't mean to be so dark but its what I honestly thought


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

hey... I didn't know mods could merge threads


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

I would print of copies of the conversation and send them to her husband.

Bet that would put a stop to this bullshut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Didn't I just read the same thread in General?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

*Re: Just friends?*



curiuswife said:


> What is your take on the conversation (from Facebook) below between my husband and his, allegedly, “Female Friend?”


Well, he's crossing boundaries there, though so far she seems to be shutting him down. He's fishing, and what is it one of the most dangerous scenarios for running into infidelity? Reaching out to a member of the opposite sex to talk about unhappiness in the marriage.

There's definitely problems for the two of you. He needs to cut off contact immediately, and the both of you should be in counseling.

Time to do some reading:

The 5 Love Languages
His Needs Her Needs

Between the two of you, somebody will have to blink first.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

OUCH!
that post shouts EA with a fishing line hoping for a PA.
There is clearly domestic issues between these two that should be for their life partners and not for on line - text or phone discussion with anyone else. Your H is saying quite clearly when he was asked about his happy marridge that its a marridge with smiles for the cameras. Basically she just annouced he ISNT happy with you and his family. 

This friend has tried (without huge enforcement) to close your H down on his fishing for PA trip. But shes IS asking all the questions to see how committed he is to you and the family unit. 
She isnt as happy as she claims else she would have fired off a broad side to shut him down, she dint do that and she still carried on the convo despite initially saying she was loggging off. 
In you place Id have made records of all of that and slammed him with them asap. He's llooking for some extra marital fun and your not invited there.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

My take is; no question about it, he is coming on to her, she isn't biting though. He is telling her that he is unhappy and is looking to fool around, pretty easy to see. That facebook thing is trouble in my opinion. gl2u


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He was flirting with her, fishing for her to flirt back, and she shut him down.

Based on that conversation, she has divulged to him that things may not have been so great at home at some point but when she realized he was using that to his advantage to flirt with her, she shut him down.

Based on that snippet, she sounds like a stand-up chick. Your husband, not so much.

Maybe she only sees him as a friend but he was definitely fishing for more with her, which she did not allow/tolerate.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I agree that this is at least an EA, and may have been more in the past.

Have you read not just friends? (book mentioned several times on TAM)

Give it to your H to read. How would your H feel if you had a friend that you spent time and energy with him rather than your H?
He would not like it at all.

I agree about getting him in with you for counseling.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Stonewall said:


> Didn't I just read the same thread in General?


Yep. There are multiples of this thread apparently.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

He is trying to hook this chick into something, thankfully she isn't biting. There is nothing okay about what he is trying to do. 

BUT, housework and childcare is not a valid excuse to shut your husband out either. Your relationship with him is more important than if you get help with the dishes and laundry. That is trivial compared to maintaining a connection with your husband. He needs to fix his sh*t, and from the sounds of it, so do you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your husband is apparently "trolling" for a relationship! (Hell, trolling is a type of fishing.) This FB woman of his affection, however, is not intentionally picking up on his, as she seems to have her priorities based elsewhere. Seems to be a unilateral EA on his part only!

I'd say that your husband has a fair amount of explaining to do in coming clean here. To that end, if you're going to salvage your relationship with him, then the two of you need to get into MC pronto.*


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

He works 7x12=84 hours and you work 40+ take care of house/family?

Your marriage and for that matter sanity are doomed. This pace can not be kept indefinitely.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Many of us went throught this in our marriages (not talking about the OW), the stress, the kids, the distance due to work, etc. Your husband turning to someone outside the marriage is wrong. Many couples do work through this period in their marriage but unless there is some type of intervention your marriage is heading for the rocks.

In your case I would recommend MC, but it will be hard and you will need to look at your stuff. A marriage is 50/50.

The OW is totally your husband's fault and his FB needs shut down.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> He works 7x12=84 hours and you work 40+ take care of house/family?
> 
> Your marriage and for that matter sanity are doomed. This pace can not be kept indefinitely.


I read that as he works 12-hour nights every other day, 42+ hours per week, and her > 45 hours conventional schedule, but that their work schedules are probably close to opposite halves of the clock (her days, him nights). 

I imagine it sounded good in the beginning as a way to have dual incomes but avoid day care for the child. But.. having some experience (albeit not identical), unless they lucked out with how easy the baby was (doesn't happen often), their lives could easily become a 24-hours stress hamster wheel of working a stressful job, coming home to watch the kid by yourself, getting insufficient sleep, not getting any of the couple time they used to have, and repeating non-stop for years. 

Having a child is the #1 reducer of marital satisfaction (survey says) when done traditionally (one job/sahm) but this sounds like even more isolation from each other and feeling unsupported when overwhelmed at home (not to mention stress on the job front ) because one of the adults is usually gone. I'm assuming they have financial commitments requiring both to work, and both of them feel trapped and pressured by that, and the prospect of not getting a break on the kid front for another decade.

The EA is bad enough and I won't excuse it, but it doesn't matter if the OP and her spouse won't get to the root cause(s) of their problems and work on those. I usually blast the EA partner, but this time I feel its only the tip of the iceberg. The OP has said she knows she's withholding love and affection from him because she's pissed at him because he doesn't give more. I've seen it before where both spouses are giving more than half, but the other doesn't see it and resentment and score-keeping take over.

I think both of them have bit off more than they could handle doing things this way, and both feel very alone and trapped by circumstance.


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## curiuswife (Dec 31, 2013)

Thank you for all the replies! They are all very enlightening. I know this is not just my husband's fault. I completely agree and realized that it is wrong to withhold love and affection just because he doesn't do his responsibilities around the house. 

We have done MC before for the same reason (housework vs. love and affection). There was no OW yet that time. Unfortunately, the MC didn't do anything positive to us. We both think the marriage counselor is not the right counselor for us. I am not sure whether our expectations are not realistic in MC. But, before we went to the marriage counselor, we expect him to evaluate our problems and definitively tell us who is right and who is wrong. The only thing the marriage counselor told us is, "you are both right and you are both wrong." He didn't even make an indication that one of us is "more right/wrong" than the other and so we can make adjustments/resolutions to our problems. Again, I am not sure whether we are expecting too much from a marriage counselor or we just went to the wrong counselor.

Thank you again for all your replies.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP please take this from a guy who has lived this first hand. You are destroying your marriage. (Not that he absolutely has a part in this. I am not denying that he does.)

First let me preface this by saying I am so far from perfect it is insane. I am hyper intelligent and math oriented. My overall IQ is 140 but would likely break down to math/spatial/pattern >150 and verbal ~120. My wife about 110 but is verbal probably 125 and math 90. Point is a huge mismatch there. I am awful at being touchy feely. "I love you" if I do love you is easy but I am not Alan Alda.
I try to pinpoint the exact date but I keep coming up with earlier and earlier things. The cracks definitely started widening about May 2012. There were a bunch of small things and one giant thing before this. The big one was this, "I love you wifename" Every day even through fights at least twice a day. She would often either ignore it or "No you dont." or "Yea right" This started lightly at first around beginning 2007. May 2012 she withdrew sexually. Down to 2-3x a month and rarely into it and yes I can tell. First just saying no then even resorting to going as far as five days between showers because she knows I will not make a pass at her much past the 36 hour mark. Note I walk the walk on this every night by showering.

No I really did not notice the pattern much until Say August-ish. Yes I am dumb. I asked nicely for sex, initiated and was rebuffed, etc always got some excuse, and bought the line. Things got worse and worse and worse. By Oct I was basically telling her direct I needed more sex and she accused me of only wanting her for sex.

So one thing I hear is I only want her for sex and we never talk. OK that is beat me over the head direct enough I try to remediate. I came home after work trying to engage her in conversation. The problem is she expects me to start and come up with all the topics. I only have so many stories. She has heard them all 50 times and by now they are boring as hell to her. After hearing them all 50 times I am not offended they are no longer interesting. So "talking" degenerates to me trying to come up with topics and her playing farmville or going on TV forums. 

Looking back now it is clear *I* started withdrawing around I will say Sept. By Feb 2013 honestly my love for her was a dying flicker of a candle. Then I found her EA with an ex who is dead opposite me. March 2 2013 758AM is a moment I will never forget. I find her and her ex spooning in an email subject line "Are Mareidge" (IF you are not an illiterate hillbilly this is "Our Marriage") It was early into inappropriateville and I shut it down after roughly two weeks later of spying. I told her him or me, pick one you may not have both. No answer = him. She picked me. 3 weeks of fights commence. I wont hear any of it. 

She constantly rewrites history and what she meant by what she said. I am ironman at this point. Fights are her half yelling and me in robotic self control, “no that is not what you said.” “No you said this meant X a week ago you now say y.” This in itself causes problems. The IQ difference means I can shoot down almost any argument she comes up with easily. She is zero match for me. She even admits my intelligence scares her. This becomes an issue now. (Fun huh!?)

That EA nearly blew out that last flicker of love but it somehow survived, until a couple days after the confrontation when on March 18 2013 at 12:40 AM I said as I went to bed, "Wifename, I love you." and she responded with "Yea right". I took two steps exactly and stopped dead in my walk. She was back in farmville and did not even notice.

THAT MOMENT I REMEMBER WITH STARK CRYSTAL CLARITY as if it were five seconds ago. It was profound and mentally earth shaking. She had finally after ten thousand attacks broken my heart, bit by bit. My love for her, DIED. Literally flatlined. I will save you the last bit of starts and restarts at attempting to R. When I was getting plenty of sex somehow we made up after our fights once she withrdew.... my point is this:
Pvssy juice is what men use to mentally mortar in the cracks in the relationship. We are primitive territorial creatures. Dumping our loads between our womens legs is the mental trowel we use to do that job. If he is like 95% of men, he never feels closer to you than the time immediately after you let him make that mess between your legs. Its the way we work. No you can not change it. You are the only one who can give him that mental mortar. And you are not doing it. DONT BE ME! DONT BE US! You have been warned.


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## curiuswife (Dec 31, 2013)

Also, to give you a clearer picture of how the childcare looks like in our home, our son has been going to the daycare full time since I went back to work. So, my husband sleeps during the day with no interruption. I only ask for help from him when he is off and during night time. During the weekends that he is off, he also sleeps during the day. I understand how hard for him to go back to his work-sleep schedule if he screws up his sleep schedule so I let him sleep during the daytime and "be with us" few hours at night before my son and I go to bed.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

He made the comment "he guesses things are going great with her and her hubby now". I'm focusing on that now piece. She shut him down but obviously shared that she had marital problems. Also hard to tell from a post but could she have been p!ssed about the happy photos she mentions?

How far apart do you live?

Your H is fishing regardless. Not good.


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## Sporto (Jun 18, 2012)

You are finger pointing still. Your marriage is in trouble and unless you want to save it you need to take action. He is looking to have an affair. You need to break the patern you guys are in. You need to start showing him affection and get your marriage to a point where you guys are happy again. Once you get there you make your feeling known as to what you need. You ask why it should be you? Because no one else will! If you do nothing your marriage will end.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

curiuswife said:


> But, before we went to the marriage counselor, we expect him to evaluate our problems and definitively tell us who is right and who is wrong.


Uh, that's not a therapist's job. His job is to get the two of you THINKING about your relationship and learning to deal with each other in a healthy manner. A good therapist will NEVER tell you that one is right and one is wrong.

The first thing you need to do is continue to monitor - if it moves forward, do something. If not, just monitor for now and focus on fixing your marriage. If you don't fix the marriage, he will never stop looking for some strange.

First read His Needs Her Needs, so you can understand what you both owe each other in a marriage and how you harm each other. Print out the Love Buster questionnaire and ask him to fill it out, as will you. Share the results, and learn how you LB him (make him unhappy). Focus on stopping those bad habits. It doesn't matter for now if he is reciprocating; you are here, and he is not. He won't feel like meeting YOUR needs and ending his LBs until he sees that you won't treat him the way you've been treating him. Has to be you first.

Eliminate the LBs and then both of you fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaires, so you can learn his top 5 ENs. Make sure you are the ONLY person meeting those 5 ENs. Even if you don't feel like it right now. Do these things for a full month, while monitoring.

Once you have greased the wheel by making his homelife a place he wants to come home to, THEN bring up the household/child chores. I suggest getting a posterboard and writing out all the things that have to be taken care of each week. List them. Add columns for your name and his name. Ask him to sit down with you and 'sign up' for the things that he is willing to be responsible for. He's home a LOT, so he should be able to handle things like laundry. Take turns picking things, until all things are accounted for. Realize that, once he agrees to do certain chores, you are allowed to remind him to do them, but you are NOT allowed to criticize HOW he does them.

If you continue this path, you should find that he will be more willing to help you and you will be less resentful and more willing to have sex with him and give him attention.

btw, the author of HNHN recommends that every couple spend at LEAST 15 hours a week together apart from child/household/work duties. It's essential to stay in love and to feel loving toward each other. I don't care how you accomplish it, you NEED to find that time to spend together.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

As a therapists you are both wrong. There I said it. 

I would recommend date nights for you two. You two got to go out and have some fun. No talk about business, marriage, just go have some fun. Once a week is great. A few times a month will help your marriage a lot. Experts say even one date night a month leds to better marriages.

Sit and talk. If he hesitates set a time (one hour). When that hour is over you are done till the next time. 

Your marriage is in the sucky stage. This can pass. But you both need to compromise. I would list those things that are vital to you and ask him to do the same. See if you can agree on some things.

Your marriage can be great or at least good.

Look at a PREP weekend. I use to be a trainer. PREP comes out of the U. of Colorado. It is an excellent program and has empirical research behind it. It is not a religious program but there is a Christian componant for those that are Christians.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Rugs said:


> Your husband is fishing for an affair. He is also disrespecting himself and his family by indicating there are marital problems.
> 
> Your husband is the marital problem and kudos to the woman for shutting him down.
> 
> ...


Agreed, I think the test is if he refuses to cut contact.
If that's the case then it will only get worse IMHO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Marriage counseling is not about who is right or who is wrong. It is about compromising and building a stronger marriage.
Your husband is wrong in fishing for an affair.
I think your marriage has a very good change of thriving and flourishing but he needs to be aware that his behavior is not only disrespectful but hurtful to your marriage.
You also need to be more emotionally and physically available to your husband.
I am not blaming you. 
I wish my ex would have come to TAM instead of engaging in EA (s), but he was too "good" for advice. 
Is your husband too good for advice? Would he be open to share his story with us here at TAM?
A lot of people really do not know what an EA is or how devastating it is to a marriage. Maybe this characterizes your husband. 
Kudos to you for coming here and asking for advice. 
I hope our advice is sound and helps building a stronger marriage.
Good luck to you!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Per OP request. This is not just mine. This is the collected wisdom of dozens. The cumulative amount of pain that created this document is astounding. There are those who will testify. It is basically as close as you are going to get for step by step play by play instructions.

(Sorry invert the sexes. I am at according to the feedback I get 25 busted wives and only 1 busted husband)

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords


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