# What if you aren’t even fed at home?



## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Paul Newman has a famous quote to the idea, “why would I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” I’ve been in a marriage for 12 years and relationship for 15 years. We only have about 2x times per year. And this has been the mode since we married. I take care of my body (normal weight, daily exerciser), I’m an intelligent professional with an MBA, a good wife and mother, fiscally responsible. There is no reason not to be satisfied with me. I’m not perfect, but I try my best to be an ideal wife/partner. So the question, if you aren’t even being fed at home, do you go out for hamburger? And the men I am meeting would qualify as steak: handsome, fit, self-made, adventurous and crazy about me. I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity. Despite multiple attempts of changing this over the years, discussing what we can do, nothing changes, and I’m left starving. My willpower is wearing thin, I just want to be desired and appreciated. I want to be touched, it is a basic human need. What do I do?
-Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Get a divorce and move on with your life!
Maybe when you file, he will snap and take proper steps in fixing his issues!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Well, first off, the men you're meeting are not "steak" if they'd be willing to sleep with or otherwise cross the line with a married woman. 

Second, if your unhappy in your marriage, have properly discussed these issues, had or requested medical exams, and nothing has changed, then it's time to divorce and move on with your life. 

Your husband has no reason to change because you've proven that you're not going anywhere. So like said above, _maybe_ if you show him how serious you are he will come to his senses. Though, if his drive is that low and always has been, it's unlikely IMO.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

They will look like steak, but are probably really only soya chunks.


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Paul Newman has a famous quote to the idea, “why would I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” I’ve been in a marriage for 12 years and relationship for 15 years. We only have about 2x times per year. And this has been the mode since we married. I take care of my body (normal weight, daily exerciser), I’m an intelligent professional with an MBA, a good wife and mother, fiscally responsible. There is no reason not to be satisfied with me. I’m not perfect, but I try my best to be an ideal wife/partner. So the question, if you aren’t even being fed at home, do you go out for hamburger? And the men I am meeting would qualify as steak: handsome, fit, self-made, adventurous and crazy about me. I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity. Despite multiple attempts of changing this over the years, discussing what we can do, nothing changes, and I’m left starving. My willpower is wearing thin, I just want to be desired and appreciated. I want to be touched, it is a basic human need. What do I do?
> -Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


Advise your H you did not sign up for this. File for D and go have some steak. Be happy in life. Only you keep yourself in a sexless marriage.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don’t consider cheating. If your situation can’t be fixed, either get a divorce or get used to it. You could always suggest an open marriage but don’t be surprised if your husband doesn’t agree.

As for Paul Newman’s quote, well, some just get tired of a regular diet of steak. It’s not the steak’s fault. There are always those who will never be content — no matter who they’re married to.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Why are you considering affairs over a divorce? And did you actually already have an affair and are just not saying so? I happen to consider assessing the grade of meat flirting with the line, and speaking to anyone about consuming their... um, meat; is already infidelity. 

Either tell him: I’m starved and I have some dudes lined up willing to do the job and I’ll probably be taking them up on the offer soon. Or: I am leaving you because I am sex starved.

I think you’ll have a solution to your problem after that.

Do not fool yourself into thinking infidelity is ok and you have a reason to do it. Don’t be that person. Be straightforward and brutally honest. Be a person of moral fortitude.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Has your H given any reason as to the lack of interest in sex?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> Has your H given any reason as to the lack of interest in sex?


He says he just isn’t interested, it feels good when we have it but he doesn’t think about it. He never initiates it. He won’t do oral, one time he started to, and for up saying he was going to throw up. He is overweight, so that may be affecting his sex drive both physically and mentally.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


And you think life is going to be better when they get older and they found out mom was having affairs? Yeah....that's not going to go well, just FYI.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lumination said:


> He says he just isn’t interested, it feels good when we have it but he doesn’t think about it. He never initiates it. He won’t do oral, one time he started to, and for up saying he was going to throw up. He is overweight, so that may be affecting his sex drive both physically and mentally.


Why are you with him? Marriage is a sexual relationship. You guys have a friendship. Stay friends, and divorce and find a proper husband.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


So, think of all the damage it will cause to EVERYONE when you are found out that you cheated. Your entire family would be devastated, and your kids will grow up know that Mom is a cheater, your siblings/parents/friends....
Don't assume you can't be caught.

Staying for the kids, seeing a loveless marriage is probably worse than them seeing that YOU stand up for what you need out of the relationship, see that you have tried, but ultimately left because he was not a good partner.
YOU are showing your kids RIGHT NOW what a marriage looks like.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Maybe your H needs to see a Dr -- if he is overweight and getting older, he may have very low Testosterone -- which will certainly tank his sex drive.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's 1001 reasons why people lose attraction for someone or lose their sex drive, and it's possible that NONE of those reasons have anything to do with you. Stop beating a dead horse and get out. Insist he has 50/50 custody so you can have a job and a life and leisure time too.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Do you think an affair is any less damaging than a divorce? 

And what kind of example does that set for your kids? And you might argue that you'll hide it or keep it from your kids, but do you really think your kids are that stupid? Because kids can tell when mom and dad have problems. And since you have an MBA, I assume you passed some intelligence on to your kids. They'll see the problems. 


You brought up your husband is overweight. Is it just a few pounds, or can he star on my 600 lbs. life? Was his sex drive always this low? Also, is his job super stressful or something? Or big age difference so he's at the age where he needs blue pills? Are you even attracted to him? 

Also, have you flat out told him "I am unhappy with our sex life and intimacy and it is changing now, with or without you. I want sex at least 3x a week (or whatever you deem necessary). And starting now, I am going to get it 3x a week. Whether that's with you, or someone else, is your choice. And the first time I have to get it somewhere else, I'll be filing for divorce the next day." I imagine that will either be a wakeup call for him, or you'll have your answer that he will never change.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


I can guarantee you that "mom had affairs" is worse than "mom wanted a divorce". Also, what happens _when _(not _if_) you get caught? Then you're a cheater, proberly getting divorced, and the bad guy. 

Do the right thing and divorce first. Show your kids how they should act in a relationship and to have some self-respect.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> Maybe your H needs to see a Dr -- if he is overweight and getting older, he may have very low Testosterone -- which will certainly tank his sex drive.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

I’ve asked him for years to see a doctor, he tried testosterone drugs but it doesn’t change the sexual relationship


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Lumination said:


> He won’t do oral, one time he started to, and for up saying he was going to throw up.


Obvious question is obvious.

Is he gay?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Atholk said:


> Obvious question is obvious.
> 
> Is he gay?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Have you considered a male escort? Some feel its not the same as affairs because the emotional entanglement is kept to a minimum, its on a professional level, and the elements of exposure (text, phone calls,written evidece) is not a factor. You go through a handler and ant tracing of phone call would show a legitimate business (salon, nails, spa)


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

I don’t know if he is gay? Ive asked if he has attraction to men, he said no.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

So where are all these handsome fit men who are queing up for you? Where did you meet them? How do you know they are interested? Are you encouraging them? Are they on dating sites? Have you already cheated? If they are happy to committ adultery with another mans wife, how are they in anyway worth bothering with?
Have you actually sat down and said that if nothing changes you will sadly have to end the marriage? If you havent then do so. If you have what did he say? Surely thats the first step.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lumination said:


> Paul Newman has a famous quote to the idea, “why would I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” I’ve been in a marriage for 12 years and relationship for 15 years. We only have about 2x times per year. And this has been the mode since we married. I take care of my body (normal weight, daily exerciser), I’m an intelligent professional with an MBA, a good wife and mother, fiscally responsible. There is no reason not to be satisfied with me. I’m not perfect, but I try my best to be an ideal wife/partner. So the question, if you aren’t even being fed at home, do you go out for hamburger? And the men I am meeting would qualify as steak: handsome, fit, self-made, adventurous and crazy about me. I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity. Despite multiple attempts of changing this over the years, discussing what we can do, nothing changes, and I’m left starving. My willpower is wearing thin, I just want to be desired and appreciated. I want to be touched, it is a basic human need. What do I do?
> -Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


I really do sympathize. Still I have to say there comes a point where you have to take responsibility for your situation. Nothing is going to change unless you do something about it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

He won't change at this point. In your shoes I would tell my spouse that I need sex, and if you can't give it to me once a week I'm going to look for it elsewhere. If he steps up, you win. If he doesn't, then you openly look for partners. 

Don't hide things from him. He is your spouse and deserves that respect. 

If he says, wait, no, don't screw other men, I can't handle it. That's when you tell him you guys should seek a separation then.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


Wrong excuse: when children grow in an environment where the parents are living together just because of the "children" What they see is: no love, no affection, resentments, they growth learning that that's the norm. Then they go on they own and rinse and repeat, because that's what they know. That's bad parenting and doing children a disservice. Children are not stupid, they can see, feel that there's something wrong, even if at an unconscious level. Plus in the end, when they find out that you stayed because of them, most likely will not have much respect toward you. You are teaching then that it's OK to be a martyr, to capitulate, to not have courage to do what's right for them. Plus, affairs in the end they always come out. Eventually your children will know about it. Is this what you want? to be known by your children as an adulteress, a cheater? Grab your girls pants and get the courage to do what's right.

It's much better for them two happy homes than a dysfunctional, unhappy one. It is hard to breakup,, but when you're done with a relationship, your wellbeing must take precedence so that you can take care of your children.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Lumination said:


> I don’t know if he is gay? Ive asked if he has attraction to men, he said no.


Well he's not going to admit it. Is he a homophobe?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


Um you don't think they will be affected by the Mother having an affair on their father if he ever finds out, or if they? What will that do to their relationship with women and men? You think seeing that kind of disrespect in the primary relationship that is an example for them is better then seeing a respectful though painful parting?

Honestly aren't you being selfish here? Is it about splitting your time, or not having to painfully confront the problem? 

My parents divorced, because my Dad cheated. The cheating affected me much more then the divorce. They are going to grow up and you won't have the same kind of time anyway. they will always remember the aftermath of cheating.

Besides what kind of choices will you have? Will you damage someone else because they are cheating, someone innocent? Finally what if you like this person, if it starts as an affair it will always be tainted. This will be the guy you cheated on your kids Dad with.

Come on stop it. Lets deal with the problem. Not make it worse.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Don’t consider cheating. If your situation can’t be fixed, either get a divorce or get used to it. You could always suggest an open marriage but don’t be surprised if your husband doesn’t agree.
> 
> As for Paul Newman’s quote, well, some just get tired of a regular diet of steak. It’s not the steak’s fault. There are always those who will never be content — no matter who they’re married to.


I’ve asked for an open marriage... hard no


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Um you don't think they will be afflicted by the Mother having an affair on their father if he ever finds out, or if they? What will that do to their relationship with women and men? You think seeing that kind of disrespect in the primary relationship that is an example for them is better then seeing a respectful though painful parting?
> 
> Honestly aren't you being selfish here? Is it about splitting your time, or not having to painfully confront the problem?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the honest response


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Atholk said:


> Obvious question is obvious.
> 
> Is he gay?


He could be a-sexual too, or a lifetime of porn making him more attracted to a two dimensional women. It could be any number of reasons, but the problem really is the same. He doesn't want it.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

VladDracul said:


> Have you considered a male escort? Some feel its not the same as affairs because the emotional entanglement is kept to a minimum, its on a professional level, and the elements of exposure (text, phone calls,written evidece) is not a factor. You go through a handler and ant tracing of phone call would show a legitimate business (salon, nails, spa)


No, I already feel like my husband is having sex with me out of obligation instead of desire, I am not going to compound that with an escort.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lumination said:


> I’ve asked for an open marriage... hard no


And if you meet a man you really love, but can't spend lots of time with? Then what? Again what do your kids learn about the nature of marriage and love in general. What will you be teaching them.

How about confronting serious challenges in their life and relationships?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Lumination said:


> He says he just isn’t interested, it feels good when we have it but he doesn’t think about it. He never initiates it. He won’t do oral, one time he started to, and for up saying he was going to throw up. He is overweight, so that may be affecting his sex drive both physically and mentally.


That's really odd. Especially not being in to oral sex. I hate to ask this, but is it a hygiene thing on your part? I might bring up the fact to him that you are seriously thinking of having an affair, but remaining married for the sake of the kids. See what he thinks about it before anything!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


If you think things are bad now, wait until you get caught having an affair. You said your husband opposes an open marriage (not surprisingly) so imagine how he would react. Sure, you might not get caught right away (my ex-husband didn’t) but sooner or later you very well might. Talk about blowing up your children’s world. You really think that’s better than divorce?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> That's really odd. Especially not being in to oral sex. I hate to ask this, but is it a hygiene thing on your part? I might bring up the fact to him that you are seriously thinking of having an affair, but remaining married for the sake of the kids. See what he thinks about it before anything!


No, I don’t think it is a hygiene thing. I have had laser hair removal, at his request , I do not have yeast or bacterial infections, I exercise and shower daily.


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

Pretty cold thinking!


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> So where are all these handsome fit men who are queing up for you? Where did you meet them? How do you know they are interested? Are you encouraging them? Are they on dating sites? Have you already cheated? If they are happy to committ adultery with another mans wife, how are they in anyway worth bothering with?
> Have you actually sat down and said that if nothing changes you will sadly have to end the marriage? If you havent then do so. If you have what did he say? Surely thats the first step.


I work outside the home, attend work functions, play tennis and golf. I am in a male dominated profession and environment, participate in continuing education, volunteer functions. Men approach me consistently and I decline their advances. Many probably do not know I am married as we usually talk about professional or functional topics, not necessarily our marriage. And no, I do not wear a ring because I work in an environment where it is a safety risk to wear jewelry and it is not allowed.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Lumination said:


> What do I do?
> -Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


You tell your husband that you're not prepared to live like this anymore. Really tell him, make him listen. He needs to know that his marriage and family is on the line here and that you're dead serious about it.

Do not cheat. There'll be a stain on your soul forever if you do. It will follow you for the rest of your life, constantly popping up when you least expect it. You'll have to face your children looking at you with disgust and disappointment, and when you meet someone new and are asked the question "Why did your marriage end?" you'll have to answer "Because I cheated". 

Get happy or get out, but don't cheat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Why did you marry a man that has always been “sex twice a year”?
You said this has always been like this.
Why did you accept that?
You got pregnant with twins in one of the two “twice a year” events???


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Why did you marry a man that has always been “sex twice a year”?
> You said this has always been like this.
> Why did you accept that?
> You got pregnant with twins in one of the two “twice a year” events???


We didn’t have sex before marriage (yes, now I know how stupid that is) and we had IVF with the twins


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> We didn’t have sex before marriage (yes, now I know how stupid that is) and we had IVF with the twins


Look, I have twins too, and I’m separated from a cheater. If you want an intact family “for the kids” get some toys and please yourself and be happy with your husband. Do not have an affair. I want you to understand it will change the whole dynamic of your family from bad to worse.
If you can’t live with that, then you need to get a divorce and find your happiness. FOR your kids.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lumination said:


> Paul Newman has a famous quote to the idea, “why would I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” I’ve been in a marriage for 12 years and relationship for 15 years. We only have about 2x times per year. And this has been the mode since we married. I take care of my body (normal weight, daily exerciser), I’m an intelligent professional with an MBA, a good wife and mother, fiscally responsible. There is no reason not to be satisfied with me. I’m not perfect, but I try my best to be an ideal wife/partner. So the question, if you aren’t even being fed at home, do you go out for hamburger? And the men I am meeting would qualify as steak: handsome, fit, self-made, adventurous and crazy about me. I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity. Despite multiple attempts of changing this over the years, discussing what we can do, nothing changes, and I’m left starving. My willpower is wearing thin, I just want to be desired and appreciated. I want to be touched, it is a basic human need. What do I do?
> -Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


There is definitely steak out there and would be happy for your appetite.

Clean up your current household first.

Your husband needs the leather treatment and if that doesn't work, he needs kicked to the curb while you go get your need met.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Lumination said:


> No, I already feel like my husband is having sex with me out of obligation instead of desire, I am not going to compound that with an escort.


Its not that cold and bland. Its more like a massage therapist, personal assistant, private duty nurse and along those lines. Hence, it can be a close, warm relationship like a lot of personal/professional relationships but with desire on both sides. Don't think an escort won't have the hots for you. They will or they won't have you as a client. They will want you and desire you, and make you feel desired more than your husband will or could. You pay for the safety and anonymity. You'll never have to worry about stalking after a breakup, inconvenient and risky phone calls and text, being confronted by wives, et cetera.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


then live a sexless life for ten more years and then divorce.

or divorce. Proper order is key. No need to cheat when you could simply divorce.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

No infidelity will not help, it isn’t a answer nor is a male escort. 
Get in his face and make him listen; you are out the door if he doesn’t act. Get his testosterone levels checked. If he is willing visit both a IC and a sex councillor. I had a friend who had gone through something very similar and his testosterone levels were way low. Got treatment and bang he was practically a star in the bedroom. 
Ultimately he has to want to change for you. I hope he can see this. It A is never a answer. One day at a time. And good luck. 
Buffer


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

I had the discussion with my husband. He is sleeping in the guest bedroom. He understands that this situation is his responsibility and acknowledges the sexual neglect through the marriage. We will have marriage counseling and simultaneously see a divorce attorney. I am broken inside that it has come to this.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I had the discussion with my husband. He is sleeping in the guest bedroom. He understands that this situation is his responsibility and acknowledges the sexual neglect through the marriage. We will have marriage counseling and simultaneously see a divorce attorney. I am broken inside that it has come to this.


I am so proud of you. You did the moral and ethical thing here and it IS painful, but you are causing way less pain to your husband and your kids by doing it this way. I’m glad that you chose to be honest, he can not fault you and you remain a decent person. Hugs.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I had the discussion with my husband. He is sleeping in the guest bedroom. He understands that this situation is his responsibility and acknowledges the sexual neglect through the marriage. We will have marriage counseling and simultaneously see a divorce attorney. I am broken inside that it has come to this.


You are a very good decent women!
You did the right thing!


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Thank you for setting a good example for your kids! If your partner does not care to go to the doctor to right a problem, then this seems your only moral choice. Hopefully marriage counseling will the wake up call he needed. Otherwise...it sounds like you have your ducks in a row, should you choose to move forwards.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This is the right move. Bravo. You've tried everything it seems. Hopefully you can respect your husband as the father of your children, co-parent amicably, and then after your divorce you can get yourself LAID.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Lumination said:


> No, I don’t think it is a hygiene thing. I have had laser hair removal, at his request , I do not have yeast or bacterial infections, I exercise and shower daily.


So he doesn't want to have sex and he doesn't want an open marriage. What does he expect you to do? Just not have sex for the rest of your life but stay married?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> So he doesn't want to have sex and he doesn't want an open marriage. What does he expect you to do? Just not have sex for the rest of your life but stay married?


Yes, he thought that he could just do enough “to get me over the line” (his words) and it worked, I let it happen.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Yes, he thought that he could just do enough “to get me over the line” (his words) and it worked, I let it happen.


How long has this been going on? Did it start when you were dating, when you first married, or later? Is he depressed?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Lumination said:


> I don’t know if he is gay? Ive asked if he has attraction to men, he said no.


LOL...then it MUST be true if he denied it.

Why on earth you waste your time with some overweight slug who almost threw up after trying to give you oral sex is a mystery for the ages. Quit using your kids as an excuse to stay with this miserable human being.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity.


Yet you've just confirmed that's not actually your world view and that, given certain circumstances, you DO believe in infidelity.

I'm really glad you came here with your thoughts before acting on them. I hope you listen and absorb what I'm about to say.

I'm a kind person. I'm not as triggered by unfaithful (or pending unfaithful) spouses as I used to be. So here's my advice:

Do not commit adultery. It is among the most toxic and transgressive things any person can do ever and has been viewed as such for at least 5,000 years by nearly human culture on the planet. It is on the "top 10" list of no-nos for a very good set of reasons. Not to be cruel and not to deprive of you of having orgasms, but because it literally wrecks societies.

It is also a form of abuse, emotional and mental and physical. At every level. It is also a form of rape, depriving your faithful partner of autonomy and agency and free will. The toxic fallout from adultery is indescribable. 

Like many pending wayward spouses, you're telling yourself a story that is only partially true and probably has a lot of falsehoods and rewriting of the history of the marriage baked into it. I also sense you're telling yourself a version of "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" and "Why can't I have a little fun?" and "this will help me and improve the marriage" and "he probably doesn't even care."

He does care. He will find out. It will destroy your marriage and wreck your family. And it will destroy him.

Since my wife's adultery (and we had a great sex life, by the way - had being the operative word) she is damaged goods to me, tarnished, less than. I view her as a FWB now. Most betrayed men will tell you they have the same experience.

I'm also an attractive guy. I'm no movie star, but I've taken care of myself and have a certain level of "handsomeness" -- so I get attention from women. Since my wife's affair, this attention seems like it's off the charts.

I have met many women like you: smart, successful, funny, fun, attractive, sexy. Yes, you are worthy of being treated the way you want. But adultery won't get that for you.

I've been tempted to have revenge affairs with these women. What's stopped me is not wanting to bring the same level of toxic horrific pain to any other married man that I've had to experience.

What to do instead?

Say, "Here's what I'm thinking. If it doesn't get better, I'm going to need to file for divorce. I'm willing to go to counseling with you and do anything we can to fix it. But I'm tired and worn out and I feel I'm worth more than you're bringing to the table. I don't feel honored or treasured and I don't feel intimate with you. I'd like to fix that, but I can't do it alone."

I wish you luck.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Broken at 20 said:


> Also, have you flat out told him "I am unhappy with our sex life and intimacy and it is changing now, with or without you. I want sex at least 3x a week (or whatever you deem necessary). And starting now, I am going to get it 3x a week. Whether that's with you, or someone else, is your choice. And the first time I have to get it somewhere else, I'll be filing for divorce the next day." I imagine that will either be a wakeup call for him, or you'll have your answer that he will never change.


If you edit this speech to take out the open marriage threats, and just stick to the divorce part, it's basically what I told you to say.

Leave out the "I'm unilaterally invoking an open marriage." That's just adultery by another name.

If he's disgusted by providing oral sex to you, that's a problem. A pretty big one. Overweight? Well, anyone can lose weight. You married him for a reason and must have been attracted to him at some point. 

Look, I am no advocate of ANYONE remaining in a sex-starved marriage. Withholding sex in a marital covenant is not okay. 

Some have mentioned just filing for divorce and then seeing what he's willing to do. It's not bad advice, if you REALLY feel you've tried and tried to address this before. It's actually the same advice we typically give to recently betrayed spouses who have just found out and experienced "D-DAY." 

We tell them to file for divorce, because the process takes awhile. We tell them this will snap their unfaithful spouse's head around fast and then they can sit back and wait to see what the unfaithful does, whether they develop true remorse and empathy and whether they pull their head out of their ass.

So in essence you could try the same strategy here. It's a helluva lot more ethical than sneaking around like a coward, mingling your genital microbiome with another man beside your husband (gross) and cruelly gaslighting your husband (which you will do if you cheat on him, guaranteed). 

You didn't say but have you all tried counseling or not? Did you see a sex therapist. Have you REALLY pulled out all the stops here -- or are you just meeting some hunky men and thinking that they'd be up for a roll in the hay?


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

That whole "have sex with an escort" thing? Really bad advice. That's adultery. Adultery is bad. Adultery is wrong. Adultery is abuse. Don't do it, if nothing else for your own sake and inner integrity.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Yes, he thought that he could just do enough “to get me over the line” (his words) and it worked, I let it happen.


Yeah, I think you need to file. Getting toys might be a short-term fix. But not a long one. You are looking for an authentic all-in man to be your lifelong companion. At least that's the sense I get from you. There is steak out there. But the men you think would be up for an affair are real ****birds, I assure you. The "steak" want nothing whatsoever to do with screwing up a marriage or trying to steal a married woman from her husband. Real men live lives of external and internal integrity.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

one more thing: If you go over to reddit and look up the "adultery" subreddit, you'll get a glimpse of the sort of bottom-feeders you'd be willingly throwing in with if you become an adulterer. They're on a subreddit and basically are a subspecies. You'll also see something over and over: the excuse (rationale) of a dead bedroom is used as a shield to justify their adultery repeatedly. But any thinking logical person can see that the ethical solution to a dead bedroom is quite simple: Tell your spouse you're willing to work on it, but only with serious intervention and therapy. If they won't do that, file for divorce and then go have some steak.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

There is a such thing as low libido, but given what you've said here, and that he's tried testosterone to no avail, I'd bet one of these are the reason.

1) Homosexual/Asexual - i.e. he has zero physical attraction to you/anyone
2) Deeply closeted porn addiction - has nothing in the tank for you, needs fantasies to get off
3) Psychological damage

My guess is #1, but it could be any. The reason I guess #1 is the fact he said he was grossed out by giving oral sex. You said, to the point of almost vomiting. That's a visceral reaction that belies his denials of homosexuality. Think about it. A straight male who was pressured to blow another male would act this way. He would want to vomit. He would want to avoid sex and give "just enough to get his partner over the line".

He'll deny it, probably because of deep shame, and all the deceit it would mean he perpetrated on you. He will likely never admit he did that to you. Perhaps his upbringing, or his religious beliefs forbid homosexual feelings and behavior, so he just shoves it down and denies it. Or, he could be completely asexual - and desire neither sex. I'd imagine the visceral reaction would be the same. But this is a much smaller subset of society.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Thumos said:


> Yet you've just confirmed that's not actually your world view and that, given certain circumstances, you DO believe in infidelity.
> 
> I'm really glad you came here with your thoughts before acting on them. I hope you listen and absorb what I'm about to say.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to respond. You are right on how I should move forward. I updated the post in the comments that I talked to my husband and we are proceeding simultaneously with marriage counseling and divorce options. He acknowledged the sexual neglect throughout the marriage. And we don’t see a way to remedy the harm that has already happened. I am broken today.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Men approach me consistently and I decline their advances. Many probably do not know I am married as we usually talk about professional or functional topics, not necessarily our marriage. And no, I do not wear a ring because I work in an environment where it is a safety risk to wear jewelry and it is not allowed.


I'm not a woman, obviously, but I do understand that women are surrounded by sexual opportunity almost like a running faucet. Annoying at times, probably delightful and affirming at other times. Men approach women, usually not the other way around. I know it must be painful and hard to meet successful and attractive men when your husband is denying sex. The more I read your posts, the more you come across as an ethical person who is struggling. Listen to your better angels. Be the strong, successful woman you know you are. Don't be weak. Please know that it fortunately seems that no one here is dismissing your experience. But you MUST listen to us on this: Adultery will open up a ****storm and a Pandora's box of horrors for you that will be hellish. Literally hellish. Don't do it.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So your H acknowledged it, but did he give you reasons WHY he isn't interested? I BET it has nothing to do with YOU specifically. There is something going on with him (too into porn, has someone else, not actually hetero, extra low T, SOMETHING...)


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Thanks for taking the time to respond. You are right on how I should move forward. I updated the post in the comments that I talked to my husband and we are proceeding simultaneously with marriage counseling and divorce options. He acknowledged the sexual neglect throughout the marriage. And we don’t see a way to remedy the harm that has already happened. I am broken today.


I am so glad you are taking the ethical pathway and thanks for the update. My heart does break for your situation. I don't think you will regret being radically honest and embracing authenticity and transparency with your husband, however it turns out. There is always hope. Healing can happen. I am not in that situation myself because my WW was not willing to do all of the things I need from her to heal, and thus I am moving forward with divorce from my unfaithful wife. I really hope the best for you either way. And look, as much as you feel broken right now, I can promise you will be okay whatever you decide.

EDIT TO ADD: Your ethical approach on this not only confirms what I thought of you on reading your first post (that you are in fact an ethical person) it's also a much needed shot in the arm for me. You are giving me hope, because I know people are out there like you who will do the right thing, no matter how bleak their marital situation may appear.

There's a great scene in the epic "Lord of the Rings" after Kate Blanchett's character is tempted to take the ring. She says, in a surprised voice, overwhelmed, "I have passed the test. I will remain Galadriel."

You have passed the test. You haven't sacrificed your integrity for a short term fix. You get to remain who you are and not become someone you wouldn't like. Good work, chin up, keep moving forward.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

I guess it doesn’t even matter why it has been a sexless marriage anymore. I’ve internalized this rejection for years I have some deep, negative feelings about myself I have to heal. Whether it was me or him, I’ve lost a huge part of my self. Do you know there is no female version of the term emasculation? But, I have been denied my female role and identity due to this sexless / loveless marriage.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I guess it doesn’t even matter why it has been a sexless marriage anymore. I’ve internalized this rejection for years I have some deep, negative feelings about myself I have to heal. Whether it was me or him, I’ve lost a huge part of my self. Do you know there is no female version of the term emasculation? But, I have been denied my female role and identity due to this sexless / loveless marriage.


I only asked because if it was before or at the beginning of the marriage, I would wonder why you were so willing to accept it/or marry him anyway if these issues were in place. And it might be important if you do choose to divorce, so that you don't settle a second time. But if it's a more recent development, then my point is null and void. I'm sorry that you feel this way, it sucks for sure and even more certain, is that its a hard decision to make, especially with your kids, so I get that aspect. Because I would imagine you get along with your husband other than this problem. But he's not willing to bend or change.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Seems like a clear path forward. There isn't much to save. Makes me curious as to what prompted the two of you to get married. Given you abstained before the wedding, was the wedding night a "night to remember" for the two of you? Was he excited to finally have sex with you, or was he more nervous/dreading it?

Anyway, keep in mind you are worth something. You are not defined by your husband's lack of physical attention. The advances by other men are just a little clue. You have something to offer and the next man you offer it to will more appreciate that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Lumination said:


> Yes, he thought that he could just do enough “to get me over the line” (his words) and it worked, I let it happen.


So he knew he was asexual and fooled you enough to get you to marry him. What an ass. I know you love your husband, just trying to figure out if he really loves you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lumination said:


> The reason I am considering an affair over a divorce is because we have 8 year old twins and I don’t want them to be affected by a divorce and have to do the split houses, schedule, etc.


Fantastic! Instead of having an amicable divorce for very valid reasons, you become a faithless wife. That isn't exactly a shining legacy to hand your kids.

If it gets out, and it always does to some extent, your children's reputations will suffer along with yours.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> Its not that cold and bland. Its more like a massage therapist, personal assistant, private duty nurse and along those lines. Hence, it can be a close, warm relationship like a lot of personal/professional relationships but with desire on both sides. Don't think an escort won't have the hots for you. They will or they won't have you as a client. They will want you and desire you, and make you feel desired more than your husband will or could. You pay for the safety and anonymity. You'll never have to worry about stalking after a breakup, inconvenient and risky phone calls and text, being confronted by wives, et cetera.


Hahahaha! Always trying to keep man whores in the work aren't you Vlad?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry you feel this way about yourself. I don’t know what your husband’s problem is but it isn’t you!!!

None of these other men would be hitting on you if you were not a person they wanted to know better. They like YOU for who you are and how you look. Never gauge your value from someone that is the problem.

Hope this helps. Find your worth for yourself, others see it every day.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Fantastic! Instead of having an amicable divorce for very valid reasons, you become a faithless wife. That isn't exactly a shining legacy to hand your kids.
> 
> If it gets out, and it always does to some extent, your children's reputations will suffer along with yours.


Sorry about the out of date reply. The site was jumping around and I didn't see that you were moving ethically to resolve this.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Fantastic! Instead of having an amicable divorce for very valid reasons, you become a faithless wife. That isn't exactly a shining legacy to hand your kids.
> 
> If it gets out, and it always does to some extent, your children's reputations will suffer along with yours.


No, she has already updated. She's been upfront with her husband, she hasn't been unfaithful, and she asked for a divorce while also agreeing to look at counseling with him. She's handling the situation ethically.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Yup.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thumos said:


> No, she has already updated. She's been upfront with her husband, she hasn't been unfaithful, and she asked for a divorce while also agreeing to look at counseling with him. She's handling the situation ethically.


I'm in a bad zone or just having technical difficulties but I addressed it.😁


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sorry we cross posted.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

Take some advice from an older man that has been married for a lot longer than you have been alive and has been in a very active and satisfying sex life. I was very lucky to have married married a woman who loves sex as much as I do and we are still going strong. ( We are both past 70) I acknowledge that sex is not everything in a happy and successful marriage but, I know it to be a major part. My advice is "get out now". Life is too short to be unhappy when you have a choice to be happy somewhere else. There is a lot of very good hamburger and steaks out there and no reason to sit starving with an empty plate. I do wish you well.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

scaredlion said:


> Take some advice from an older man that has been married for a lot longer than you have been alive and has been in a very active and satisfying sex life. I was very lucky to have married married a woman who loves sex as much as I do and we are still going strong. ( We are both past 70) I acknowledge that sex is not everything in a happy and successful marriage but, I know it to be a major part. My advice is "get out now". Life is too short to be unhappy when you have a choice to be happy somewhere else. There is a lot of very good hamburger and steaks out there and no reason to sit starving with an empty plate. I do wish you well.


My hero. I'm 57, happily married many years, a very active and happy sex life. 

So, glad to hear from you!


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Thumos said:


> I'm not a woman, obviously, but I do understand that women are surrounded by sexual opportunity almost like a running faucet. Annoying at times, probably delightful and affirming at other times. Men approach women, usually not the other way around. I know it must be painful and hard to meet successful and attractive men when your husband is denying sex. The more I read your posts, the more you come across as an ethical person who is struggling. Listen to your better angels. Be the strong, successful woman you know you are. Don't be weak. Please know that it fortunately seems that no one here is dismissing your experience. But you MUST listen to us on this: Adultery will open up a ****storm and a Pandora's box of horrors for you that will be hellish. Literally hellish. Don't do it.


Hasn't been my experience, and quite the opposite in my life. My ring and then my kids have been a man repellant, where as he’s always had aggressively forward women on his tail. There was one woman who actually slinked up to him when I went to the restroom and left a note. It said “I don’t care if that’s your wife, I’ll lick you from toe to forehead. Call me.” Classy.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Lumination said:


> I’ve internalized this rejection for years I have some deep, negative feelings about myself I have to heal. Whether it was me or him, I’ve lost a huge part of my self.


Lumination, you're just wrong blaming yourself for what this dud has brought to the table. At best (or worse depending on how you look at it) your weakness was punishing yourself by staying in this marriage, hoping it would get better. You said yourself the men you meet are crazy about you and I don't think you'd have much problem replacing this cat, either temporarily or permanently. When you do replace him, the negative feelings you about yourself now will become not only elation you've escaped this prison, but kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Remember, what worse than what you've been through is putting up with it from now forward.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I guess it doesn’t even matter why it has been a sexless marriage anymore. I’ve internalized this rejection for years I have some deep, negative feelings about myself I have to heal. Whether it was me or him, I’ve lost a huge part of my self. Do you know there is no female version of the term emasculation? But, I have been denied my female role and identity due to this sexless / loveless marriage.


Yes I could see it would feel almost worse being the female who wants sex more, because we are trained from the get go that the man will always want and desire us and are sex machines. I could see how you would internalize that, but it’s not you... you’ve said yourself there are plenty of guys who obviously would love to be with you that way. 
Definitely work on your self worth though, you don’t want to let the first good lay win your heart. Get the whole package the next time. 🙂


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, counseling is a waste of time unless its goal is how to divorce and coparent amicably.

This guy isn't into you. Period. At this point who even cares why? How is counseling going to change that? Cmon...you needed in vitro to even have kids with him, that's how little he's into you, unless I missed something.

The sooner you split the sooner you'll meet a decent man who doesn't screw married women but wants to screw you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lumination said:


> I guess it doesn’t even matter why it has been a sexless marriage anymore. I’ve internalized this rejection for years I have some deep, negative feelings about myself I have to heal. Whether it was me or him, I’ve lost a huge part of my self. Do you know there is no female version of the term emasculation? But, I have been denied my female role and identity due to this sexless / loveless marriage.


A simple word for denigrating a females sexuality might be _chastised._

Maybe, this was done earlier, by your overly protective Mother, and by your Faith.


_Lilith-_


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha! Always trying to keep man whores in the work aren't you Vlad?


That was long long ago but you and I both know escorting is not just about sex. About half to two thirds of the ladies just want companionship, or perhaps accompaniment to a function. Nevertheless, your focused totally on them, their wants and desires are a priority, they are the princess and that's often not something they get elsewhere. I like to think I fulfilled that role and gave them a safe space that didn't result in them getting involved with a psycho who would gossip all over town, risking them to exposure, perhaps blackmail, abuse, and stalk, some guy who just used them for, as I call it, masterbatus in vaganus or some cat trying to brake up their marriage when he gets the, "I don't want to do this any more" talk.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Lumination said:


> Paul Newman has a famous quote to the idea, “why would I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” I’ve been in a marriage for 12 years and relationship for 15 years. We only have about 2x times per year. And this has been the mode since we married. I take care of my body (normal weight, daily exerciser), I’m an intelligent professional with an MBA, a good wife and mother, fiscally responsible. There is no reason not to be satisfied with me. I’m not perfect, but I try my best to be an ideal wife/partner. So the question, if you aren’t even being fed at home, do you go out for hamburger? And the men I am meeting would qualify as steak: handsome, fit, self-made, adventurous and crazy about me. I’ve been holding off because I don’t believe in infidelity. Despite multiple attempts of changing this over the years, discussing what we can do, nothing changes, and I’m left starving. My willpower is wearing thin, I just want to be desired and appreciated. I want to be touched, it is a basic human need. What do I do?
> -Stuck in a Sexless Marriage


Pual Newman

why quote a man that divorced his first wife, then denied his children from his
first wife the millionaire life style he had with his second wife and his second 
set of children?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldtruck said:


> Pual Newman
> 
> why quote a man that divorced his first wife, then denied his children from his
> first wife the millionaire life style he had with his second wife and his second
> set of children?


Ouch!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lumination said:


> I’ve asked him for years to see a doctor, he tried testosterone drugs but it doesn’t change the sexual relationship


Drugs? Injections?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> Drugs? Injections?


Yes, injections, not the topical.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Lumination said:


> Yes, injections, not the topical.


He did injections and that didn't up his sexual appetite? 

I don't think this guy is straight. Sounds to me like he is...asexual? 

OP, I think you should ignore the counselor. Just go to the divorce attorney. This guy either can't or doesn't want to change. You've told him how unhappy things are, made suggestions, asked him to get help, and he refuses. 

Someone shouldn't have to beg their spouse to have sex with them, male or female. The LD spouse should at least be willing to come to some kind of compromise for their HD spouse. His refusal to compromise or do anything to try and fix this situation is, I would argue, equally poisonous to a marriage as any affair could be.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

You know that I told my husband that we need to seek marriage counseling and a divorce consult simultaneously. I feel so terrible that it has come to this. I want to say “never mind” and accept that a sex kids will not be in my future. Marriage means a lot to me and even though this one is extremely flawed, I am having such a hard time walking away.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Lumination said:


> You know that I told my husband that we need to seek marriage counseling and a divorce consult simultaneously. I feel so terrible that it has come to this. I want to say “never mind” and accept that a sex kids will not be in my future. Marriage means a lot to me and even though this one is extremely flawed, I am having such a hard time walking away.


Accept that a sex life ( not kids) - typo


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Accept that a sex life ( not kids) - typo


That's true, but what if the roles were reversed...think he'd stay? At the end of the day, you don't have to listen to anyone on here. It's your life, and if you choose to live it that way, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lumination said:


> You know that I told my husband that we need to seek marriage counseling and a divorce consult simultaneously. I feel so terrible that it has come to this. I want to say “never mind” and accept that a sex kids will not be in my future. Marriage means a lot to me and even though this one is extremely flawed, I am having such a hard time walking away.


The fact that you are having a hard time walking away is because you are a loyal person.
He is a good husband but not a very good one.
There is a difference.

But, having loyalty does not mean you need to be a martyr.

You have two ladies living inside you, this is common.

One wants the comforts of home, the stability of marriage.

The other wants romance.
The other wants to make love to a man who shows great interest in you as a woman.

You are a wife, a good one.

You want to be a lover, a good one. 
For that, you need a partner who cannot be held back once he gets his hands on you.
You do not have that. You are not sure of your abilities...here.

Seek the second, the first is already known of.

Leave this man, your current husband, amicably.

Seek a lover who seeks you out in return.
A man who will lift you up.
A man who will lift your skirt and go down on you.


_The Typist-_


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Lumination said:


> I want to say “never mind” and accept that a sex life will not be in my future.


You are worthy of a completely satisfying marriage with a man, which includes a healthy and consistent sex life. You understand you are worthy and you have asserted your worth. 

Now things are getting real because you took a brave step forward. When it gets real, it gets scary. Terrifying in fact. So it's completely understandable that you'd want to, in a sense, tuck tail and go back to the status quo. The status quo was comfortable (but death-dealing). Don't go back to the status quo. 

You're grieving now. You're probably also angry. He's also probably hurting (altho unable to bring himself to address this with you apparently). 

You're adulting. I hate adulting too. But it has to be done.

Keep moving forward. Walk, however painful it may seem. Drink lots of water. Don't drink alcohol right now. Sleep. 

And don't back down. 

Look, this is a very big deal. A dead bedroom is no small deal. It is a big deal. It is one of the worst things that can happen in a marriage in my opinion. 

And you have handled this in an admirable way. Instead of becoming someone you would loathe, you have ethically asserted your God-given normal healthy desires that should exist within a normal, functioning marriage. 

Keep moving forward.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I just want to say I’m sorry. It’s a totally unfair situation for you. 
I personally hope that you do get divorced and find a man that loves AND can’t keep his hands off you. It makes me really sad to think about what you must have felt like when he gagged at something that has most men ecstatic to do.
That said I think you are really at a high risk for having an affair if you do stay. You’ve already contemplated one, and all it would take is that one guy to say and do all the right things. You’re in a precarious situation here.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lumination said:


> He says he just isn’t interested, it feels good when we have it but he doesn’t think about it. He never initiates it. He won’t do oral, one time he started to, and for up saying he was going to throw up. He is overweight, so that may be affecting his sex drive both physically and mentally.


He isn’t steak. This is Spam at best.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> The fact that you are having a hard time walking away is because you are a loyal person.
> He is a good husband but not a very good one.
> There is a difference.
> 
> ...


He might be a good person, but he is a terrible and negligent husband.
They have a sacred sexual union and he is refusing to be a part of that. He vowed to have and to hold and had no intent to do so. That is a major betrayal.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Lumination said:


> You know that I told my husband that we need to seek marriage counseling and a divorce consult simultaneously. I feel so terrible that it has come to this. I want to say “never mind” and accept that a sex kids will not be in my future. Marriage means a lot to me and even though this one is extremely flawed, I am having such a hard time walking away.


It is hard. 
There will be things. My wife complains that when I do housework in teh morning when she is still in bed, the noise can disturb her. These are normal things to complain about. 
People feel responsibility differently and people who go on about it most expect it from others. You are doing what you can, but one person cannot make a partnership.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> It is hard... You are doing what you can, but one person cannot make a partnership.


When the reality of Covid set in, I made a plan to make it a positive transformation for me. I added daily walking of 3-4 miles. Found people in the neighborhood who I can befriend ( new city/state July 19), journal daily for gratitude, etc. one of my goals was to “ feel sexy”, and I bought all new undergarments, wore clothes that complimented me, hair and make up daily. But I never saw an improvement in “feeling sexy”. And even though other men must have noticed because of their advances, I never felt like I achieved it, because my husband, the one that mattered, was never open to receiving that from me. I am so ashamed and feel like such a failure. Intellectually, I know it isn’t me, but emotionally is another dimension.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Lumination it's not you, it's him. Yes, that's easy for me to say. However, I am in a similar situation as my wife and I rarely make love anymore. Several factors 99% related to her health issues.

I think you could benefit from individual counselling to help you deal with his rejection.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Lumination said:


> When the reality of Covid set in, I made a plan to make it a positive transformation for me. I added daily walking of 3-4 miles. Found people in the neighborhood who I can befriend ( new city/state July 19), journal daily for gratitude, etc. one of my goals was to “ feel sexy”, and I bought all new undergarments, wore clothes that complimented me, hair and make up daily. But I never saw an improvement in “feeling sexy”. And even though other men must have noticed because of their advances, I never felt like I achieved it, because my husband, the one that mattered, was never open to receiving that from me. I am so ashamed and feel like such a failure. Intellectually, I know it isn’t me, but emotionally is another dimension.


You felt like a failure as you take responsibility for the partnership.
You took responsibility for yourself, which was wise and admirable! Well done, you should be proud.
You also took the responsibility for his reaction. That was really stupid of you, as stupid as I was when I was in the same situation. You are responsible for your part of the partnership. There is nothing you can do about his side.
That is scary, but finally liberating.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

A lot of people are cheering that you are going into counseling. 

Sure, go ahead and check off that box and if nothing else you will be able to sleep at night telling yourself you tried and that you did seek professional assistance.

And to be fair it might help. It did help save my marriage several years ago when the counselor was able to get through to my wife that I had one foot out the door for valid reason and that if she didn’t want to be a 45 year on single mother she needed to wake up and come to the negotiation table. 

Am I glad we stayed together now??? Well the kids are 16 and 18 now as opposed to being young children so it at least allowed us to remain together until the kids are older, but other than that, the jury is still out on that one.

Here’s the catch about marital counseling, it’s good at helping people learn more effective communication and conflict resolution techniques. But it doesn’t actually change or transform people. 

In other words, it may help your H explain that he doesn’t want to give you oral because it makes his eyes water and want to barf - but it won’t transform him into someone that wants to devour you and deep throat you from the inside. 

It will help your H communicate that sex with you holds no special meaning for him and is not something that he has an innate desire to do - but it won’t transform him into a horny, passionate stallion that has a burning desire for you that can’t can’t keep his hands off if you. 

People have this image of marriage counseling that there is some kind of secret yet simple thing that is keeping the other from unleashing all their love and passion and if this one thing can be determined and corrected, that the power of love will be unleashed and everyone will live happily ever after.

But let’s be realistic here. Do you really think if in counseling it comes out that you don’t clip your toenails enough and he is really super turned off by bear claws, that the moment you get a good pedicure that he will be overcome with passion and ravage you into the next week and devour your jay-jay like a starving porn star???

To be fair that does happen occasionally and it’s probably worth checking off a few boxes in going to a counselor to make sure you don’t just need a pedicure. 

But what’s the more likely scenario is if he even wants to stay married is he will take a deep sigh, roll up his sleeves and try to lift up his belly flab so you can climb on his half-mast penis a few more times a year in an effort to say he’s trying. 

Let’s be honest, do you really want to be with someone that has to “try” to make love to you? 

Most of the time counseling is basically forcing someone to tell you all the reasons they don’t like you. 

Maybe there is something you can change that will make him desire you. It’s worth s try so you can at least say you tried it.

But the chances of it transforming some fat guy that rolls up his sleeves to shut you up a couple times a year and who almost pukes when he makes a half-hearted attempt to go down you into a hot, passionate lover that yearns to be with you and to ravage you to mutual exhaustion is a huge, huge spread to cover. 

Statistically speaking, if the counselor can get you on top of his half-limp Johnson from twice a year to 4 times a year, he/she can claim you’ve made a 100% improvement in your sex life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now as far as whether you should or should not take a lover on the side - that’s a little tricky. 

Again facing reality - as a sexually alive female that isn’t morbidly obese or deformed, your options for some extra on the the side are basically unlimited and you’d be able write your own ticket. (And even if you were morbidly obese and deformed, there would be dudes with fetishes for deformed fat chicks so even that wouldn’t necessarily stop you)

You could just tap out whichever guy(s) suited your fancy and you could give them the requirements and parameters of your relationship and they would likely eagerly comply and be thankful for the opportunity.

People here will give all the dire warnings of how devastated he will be if you get caught. 

Yeah right. Do you think some fat guy that openly admits to touching you a couple times a year to shut you up is going to be hiding GPS trackers in your car and hacking your phone and computers looking for evidence you are getting some on the side? 

The reality is as a woman with an uninterested husband is you can get away with this for years and years. If it’s not costing him anything, he likely won’t even notice a thing. He’s asleep at the switch. 

Someone earlier even implied you’d be giving him STDs. Now how is that going to happen if you two aren’t having sex?? 

Now before you get the idea that I think this is a long term solution, it’s really not.

The likely scenario is you’ll have a blast and feel alive and vital again for awhile and all will seem great for a period of time. 

But eventually you will realize that these guys are just soothing their own dysfunctions and issues and are just in it for their own jollies and that you are an easy mark due to your own starvation. 

In time you’ll want a real relationship and these guys simply aren’t relationship material. In fact the reason they are hooking up with you in the first place is because it is a side thing and they DONT want an actual relationship with you. 

It may take years, but you will eventually realize you don’t want to live a double life anymore and that you want the whole package. 

The good news is the kids will be older, you will have had time to start feathering your own nest, and you will now have your confidence and sexy back.

When you decide it’s time to move on, you’ll probably pack your bags and move in to your new life in the course of a couple weeks. 

You’ll be the classic walk-away-Wife. Your H will be standing there disoriented not even knowing what hit him. 

The bad news is, yes, his friends and family will think you are trash and will say bad things about you and encourage him to try to get the kids (now in their teens) to turn against you and to try to kick you out with nothing but the clothes on your back in court. 

But will all that really matter by then?

Kind of where I am going with this novel is you are going to leave eventually anyway. 

There is no long term, happily ever after solution here. 

You can leave him now and deal with the court and custody issues with a pair of 8 year olds - but you can bounce back and be living a good life when the dust settles and could even meet a nice single man and develop a healthy, loving relationship in due time and basically keep your hands clean. 

Or you can hook up with a variety of hot, horny young studs with abz and biceps and get your freak on for a number of years on the down low until the kids are older, your confidence is built back up and you’ve had a chance to get your ducks in a row and your finances arranged to be on your own. 

You can go with whichever of those seems the lesser of two evils.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Lumination said:


> When the reality of Covid set in, I made a plan to make it a positive transformation for me. I added daily walking of 3-4 miles. Found people in the neighborhood who I can befriend ( new city/state July 19), journal daily for gratitude, etc. one of my goals was to “ feel sexy”, and I bought all new undergarments, wore clothes that complimented me, hair and make up daily. But I never saw an improvement in “feeling sexy”. And even though other men must have noticed because of their advances, I never felt like I achieved it, because my husband, the one that mattered, was never open to receiving that from me. I am so ashamed and feel like such a failure. Intellectually, I know it isn’t me, but emotionally is another dimension.



Once again, your husband doesn't count. You can not measure your worth from the view of a cheater.

I do understand where you are coming from. I wanted my wife to want me and to show it. she has not done that since we started having kids.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> He isn’t steak. This is Spam at best.


Hey, I *LIKE* Spam.


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## Rejectedliver (Jan 1, 2019)

GC1234 said:


> So he doesn't want to have sex and he doesn't want an open marriage. What does he expect you to do? Just not have sex for the rest of your life but stay married?


 that sounds like my husband went to counselling so the dumb arse finally got it that i needed a sex life that i needed to be sexually touched - he fulfilled his obligation once that was more tan 6 months ago - bot a thing since its pathetic


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Rejectedliver said:


> that sounds like my husband went to counselling so the dumb arse finally got it that i needed a sex life that i needed to be sexually touched - he fulfilled his obligation once that was more tan 6 months ago - bot a thing since its pathetic


So, he hasn't had sex with you since that 6 month period? Any reason why? Also, are you considering open marriage or divorce?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> When you decide it’s time to move on, you’ll probably pack your bags and move in to your new life in the course of a couple weeks.


In reading her post, it ain't much of a stretch to believe this will happen sooner than later. If/when she finds a man that heals the emotional wounds her husband has caused, starts to realize she has the all attributes to make a guy continuously crave and desire her, that she finds the pleasure she deserves by giving herself to a man who wants her both physically and emotionally, that she spent years being neglected by a man who just doesn't have what it takes to be anything more than a room mate. From her post, and but for the dud she married, Lumination sounds like a chick that's got it together, career wise, keeping herself in shape, wants to be loyal, wants to feel sexy, is not afraid to be a woman with a man who appreciates and wants her. She'll have her pick on a plethora of men who wants to be committed to woman like that. Taking her post at face value, I wish my son would have found somebody similar.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Rejectedliver said:


> that sounds like my husband went to counselling so the dumb arse finally got it that i needed a sex life that i needed to be sexually touched - he fulfilled his obligation once that was more tan 6 months ago - bot a thing since its pathetic


Sorry you are going through this too


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Lumination,

Did you ever ask your H if he feels inferior to you, you sound like an attractive, motivated and successful woman. Perhaps he never felt he deserved you, this can be something men have a hard time admitting.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

TAMAT said:


> Lumination,
> 
> Did you ever ask your H if he feels inferior to you, you sound like an attractive, motivated and successful woman. Perhaps he never felt he deserved you, this can be something men have a hard time admitting.


That’s a good question. I never thought to ask that. I will have to find a way to work that question into our next conversation.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Don’t know if someone has asked this so, is he gay?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

ABHale said:


> Don’t know if someone has asked this so, is he gay?


It's been asked. He denies it. We'll likely never know for sure.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

It just some of the things op has done for intimacy at his request and he still doesn’t. It doesn’t make any sense.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You didn't marry your husband in order to lead a celibate life. As your spouse, he has an obligation to provide you with as much enthusiastic and enjoyable sex as the two of you can handle. That's not just rational, it's Biblical.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Hubby went to the doctor to get tested for testosterone levels. The results came back all in the normal range. This is what I suspected, as the desire for intimacy and sex starts in the mind. I agreed to counseling and giving him an opportunity to fix this until the end of the year. It feels hopeless though.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

That's 78 days. Maybe 3 therapy sessions. Almost enough time to draw up divorce papers.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

And what are you going to talk about in counseling?

Counseling is for communication issues. This guy for whatever reason isn't into you. What is counseling going to do about that?

But give it a try if it will help you feel like you tried everything


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

A couple of things that bother me in this thread. 1 I did that testosterone check a few times. First test I was in the normal range. That basically allowed my insurance to get out of paying for the treatment. My testosterone was normal for an 84 year old. 
2 giving him until the end of the year to "fix this" is not a specific measurable goal. (Not mentioning achievable).
My wife, given this ultimatum would simply offer starfish sex twice in December, and claim that she was reaching normal standards. See you are not sexless _smirk_
As I am often asked, what does " fix this" look like?


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> A couple of things that bother me in this thread. 1 I did that testosterone check a few times. First test I was in the normal range. That basically allowed my insurance to get out of paying for the treatment. My testosterone was normal for an 84 year old.
> 2 giving him until the end of the year to "fix this" is not a specific measurable goal. (Not mentioning achievable).
> My wife, given this ultimatum would simply offer starfish sex twice in December, and claim that she was reaching normal standards. See you are not sexless _smirk_
> As I am often asked, what does " fix this" look like?


Great comment. I’m a journaled and write consistently, as such, I journaled about this extensively. I wrote what my idea of a sexually connected/intimate relationship looks like and I have shared this with him.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Lumination said:


> I had the discussion with my husband. He is sleeping in the guest bedroom. He understands that this situation is his responsibility and acknowledges the sexual neglect through the marriage. We will have marriage counseling and simultaneously see a divorce attorney. I am broken inside that it has come to this.


It certainly is painful, but you can hold your head high that you did it the honorable and ethical way.
On the other hand, between the counseling and the realism that will kick in when the divorce ball starts rolling, he might have second thoughts.
I understand. I was in your boat a couple of years ago. Fortunately when i sat down to have the talk with my wife, she understood the gravity of the situation and has busted her butt to make amends and do her part to work on our marriage.
Take it one day at a time.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> Great comment. I’m a journaled and write consistently, as such, I journaled about this extensively. I wrote what my idea of a sexually connected/intimate relationship looks like and I have shared this with him.


Do you honestly beleive it’s fair to ask him to go to counseling to become someone that he never, ever has been? You have NEVER had a good sex life. He is physically ill performing very normal sexual behaviors with you. You are asking a sloth to be a rabbit. (You’re a rabbit who has been living as a sloth for your entire marriage, how does that feel?) There is no counselor alive that can make a person become a different person. 
If you had both spent the first 3 years of your marriage happy and sexually healthy, I wouldn’t say any of this to you... but he has NEVER wanted that with you by your own admission.

Well, a good thing will be when you actually do leave him (which I hope you’ll do and not cheat) you’ll maybe feel like you’ve tried everything and have no regrets. And hopefully you’ll work from a place of facing the fear and hurt to do what’s best for both of you. You seem like a good person, and I wish the best for you.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

QuietRiot said:


> Do you honestly beleive it’s fair to ask him to go to counseling to become someone that he never, ever has been? You have NEVER had a good sex life. He is physically ill performing very normal sexual behaviors with you. You are asking a sloth to be a rabbit. (You’re a rabbit who has been living as a sloth for your entire marriage, how does that feel?) There is no counselor alive that can make a person become a different person.
> If you had both spent the first 3 years of your marriage happy and sexually healthy, I wouldn’t say any of this to you... but he has NEVER wanted that with you by your own admission.
> 
> Well, a good thing will be when you actually do leave him (which I hope you’ll do and not cheat) you’ll maybe feel like you’ve tried everything and have no regrets. And hopefully you’ll work from a place of facing the fear and hurt to do what’s best for both of you. You seem like a good person, and I wish the best for you.


The request for counseling came from him, I do not think it will make a difference. I know the eventual outcome of this situation. But 3 more months for counseling is what it will take to get him to this realization too. And I respect him and the marriage enough to give it 3 more months.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Lumination said:


> The request for counseling came from him, I do not think it will make a difference. I know the eventual outcome of this situation. But 3 more months for counseling is what it will take to get him to this realization too. And I respect him and the marriage enough to give it 3 more months.


I’m sorry that you have to go through all this. Good luck with everything, and I hope you will keep us updated.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lumination said:


> Hubby went to the doctor to get tested for testosterone levels. The results came back all in the normal range. This is what I suspected, as the desire for intimacy and sex starts in the mind. I agreed to counseling and giving him an opportunity to fix this until the end of the year. It feels hopeless though.


What is his #. . Tell them you want a copy of test. Normal is never same everyone. Normal is 400-1100 but at 450 i am a zombie in the BR, whereas my cousin says he feels good at 450. My Dr. said men feel best between 1000-1100. Always get a copy of the labs. Some Dr are not comfortable with HRT so they just tell you it is in normal range. The lower end of normal does not work for me. I go to a Urologist for HRT as my Dr was more comfortable with that as the Urologist is up on his HRT education as he himself has low T. Have hubby get copy of the labs, dr should have no issue with that. I have a file with all my yearly lab reports.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lumination said:


> The request for counseling came from him, I do not think it will make a difference. I know the eventual outcome of this situation. But 3 more months for counseling is what it will take to get him to this realization too. And I respect him and the marriage enough to give it 3 more months.


My wife was all for counseling when we were having a real bad patch in our marriage.

The catch is she thought everything was my fault and that my needs were unimportant and unreasonable and she truly believed the counselor would side completely with her and chew me out. 

She was completely aghast as well as miffed when the counselor looked her in the eye and with all seriousness that my needs were perfectly legitimate and that my grievances were legit and that I had one foot out the door already and that if she wanted to be a single mother in her own to keep her head in the sand and keep doing what she was doing. 

It actually made the situation worse and more volatile for awhile because now she was mad at the counselor as well as me. She truly thought that the counselor would tell me to put all my wants and needs on ice and that only her wants and needs had any merit. 

Where I am going with this is he may be thinking that you are the one that is out of line and that MC will support him alone.


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## Lumination (Sep 30, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> What is his #. . Tell them you want a copy of test. Normal is never same everyone. Normal is 400-1100 but at 450 i am a zombie in the BR, whereas my cousin says he feels good at 450. My Dr. said men feel best between 1000-1100. Always get a copy of the labs. Some Dr are not comfortable with HRT so they just tell you it is in normal range. The lower end of normal does not work for me. I go to a Urologist for HRT as my Dr was more comfortable with that as the Urologist is up on his HRT education as he himself has low T. Have hubby get copy of the labs, dr should have no issue with that. I have a file with all my yearly lab reports.


We have the full lab results including the actual results and “normal” ranges. We will look at them in more detail.


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