# This article made me think of the women here!



## Fenix

Marry Again? Nine Reasons Divorced Women Choose Not To | MORE Magazine

I loved their definition of cougar. :smthumbup: Didn't love #7 though.


----------



## Married but Happy

From what I've seen and experienced, the article is pretty accurate and provides good reasoning. #7 may be correct overall, but preferences vary, no doubt.


----------



## sylviaslife

Pretty darn accurate in my eyes. Well, except for number 7. My marriage was the reason for waning desire, not my age. I love this!


----------



## Jellybeans

LOVE this article! I even sent it to my colleague! It says it's for women in their 40s and older but I am in my thirties and relate to many of the things it lists.

I so agree with these three the most:

_2) Living Apart Can Be Better Than Living Together

It’s fun being a girlfriend. A wife? Not so much. Cooking, housework, juggling multiple schedules is exhausting — and many women feel they were doing it as a solo act giving 90 percent to someone else’s 10 percent. That’s why LAT (Living Apart Together) relationships are so popular. As I explained in a New York Times article, that’s commitment without living together.

8) You don’t have to discuss your relationship ad nauseam

How exhausting is it to ask where the relationship is going, or whether your partner cares about the relationship, and then get a grunt or a shrug or a disappointing response. Now you don’t have to ask the question because you aren’t married or interested in getting remarried. 

9) You’re a realist.

Divorced women know the lay of the land. They are savvy to relationship pitfalls and work hard to avoid them. As my divorced friend Debbie says, having the freedom to do whatever, with whomever, whenever is worth every penny of living alone._

Great article! :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Runs like Dog

Fenix said:


> Marry Again? Nine Reasons Divorced Women Choose Not To | MORE Magazine
> 
> I loved their definition of cougar. :smthumbup: Didn't love #7 though.


An awful lot of that applies to men as well. Of course it would come across as arrogance if it were actually stated.


----------



## firebelly1

I like: "There is date behavior and marital behavior. And given the choice, most of us would prefer the former."


----------



## Fenix

Runs like Dog said:


> An awful lot of that applies to men as well. Of course it would come across as arrogance if it were actually stated.


Perhaps. But society assumes divorced women want to remarry. I don't believe they make the same assumptions about men. In addition, the studies show that married men live longer, healthier lives. Married women don't. So, ultimately, it is probably better for divorced women to stay single and get a dog.


----------



## Sandfly

Fenix said:


> Perhaps. But society assumes divorced women want to remarry. I don't believe they make the same assumptions about men. In addition, the studies show that married men live longer, healthier lives. Married women don't. So, ultimately, it is probably better for divorced women to stay single and get a dog.


I thought studies showed that divorced men fare worst. Which is another way of saying marriage kills men, because you have to pass _through _marriage to get to divorce.

Something like 70% of British homeless men are homeless due to a breakdown in their relationship... Custody of the kids and therefore the council accommodation are awarded by default to the mother, you see...

Men are definitely better off living apart.


----------



## Fenix

Sandfly said:


> I thought studies showed that divorced men fare worst. Which is another way of saying marriage kills men, because you have to pass _through _marriage to get to divorce.
> 
> Something like 70% of British homeless men are homeless due to a breakdown in their relationship... Custody of the kids and therefore the council accommodation are awarded by default to the mother, you see...
> 
> Men are definitely better off living apart.


Ha! You go look for your studies and I will look for mine. We will compare!!


----------



## Fenix

Benefits of Marriage: Men's Health

From Marriage and Men's Health - Harvard Health Publications
Men, marriage, and mortality
A major survey of 127,545 American adults found that married men are healthier than men who were never married or whose marriages ended in divorce or widowhood. Men who have marital partners also live longer than men without spouses; men who marry after age 25 get more protection than those who tie the knot at a younger age, and the longer a man stays married, the greater his survival advantage over his unmarried peers. But is marriage itself responsible for better health and longer life?

Although it's hard to be sure, marriage seems to deserve at least part of the credit. Some have argued that self-selection would skew the results if healthy men are more likely to marry than men with health problems. But research shows the reverse is true: unhealthy men actually marry earlier, are less likely to divorce, and are more likely to remarry following divorce or bereavement than healthy men.

Another potential factor is loneliness; is the institution of marriage linked to better health, or is it simply a question of living with another person? Although studies vary, the answer seems to be a little of both. People living with unmarried partners tend to fare better than those living alone, but men living with their wives have the best health of all.

Numerous studies conducted over the past 150 years suggest that marriage is good for health. More recently, scientists have begun to understand why married men enjoy better health than their single, divorced, and widowed peers. But before we turn to the why, let's look at how marriage affects specific diseases, including America's leading killers, cardiovascular disease and cancer.

etc.

But to be fair, I am not sure about the health benefits if a second marriage.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

SINGLE stands for:

*S*tress

*I*s

*N*ow

*G*one

*L*ife's

*E*asier

:smthumbup:

You won't catch me getting married again. If I say I want a "committed" relationship..please have me committed!

What getting divorced did was convince me that being married was NEVER for me. It was a mistake for me to get married to begin with! I never liked it and always wanted to end it. So when it did end I felt relieved. 

I never wanted to move back in with my ex husband again. When we separated I was hoping that he could just be my "boyfriend". In the beginning of our separation I'd hoped that would be the case but he soon convinced me that not only could we not be romantically involved, I didn't even want him in my life as a friend..or at all. 

Ironically the day we divorced he asked me if I wanted to be "Friends with Benefits." I laughed and told him "No way am I falling into that trap. It took me all this time to be free of you emotionally and I'm not giving that up."

I love the freedom I feel now. Not just physically but emotionally as well. 



> In fact, this cat has the greatest range of any wild terrestrial mammal in the Western hemisphere—even wider than the wolf. It’s solitary and doesn’t need to stick around like those herding animals. Nor does a cougar want to stick around, which makes them more appealing.


:lol: :rofl: I love that definition! :smthumbup:


----------



## Freak On a Leash

sylviaslife said:


> Pretty darn accurate in my eyes. Well, except for number 7. My marriage was the reason for waning desire, not my age. I love this!


My ex husband did a real number on me when it came to sex. He wouldn't have sex with me. He withheld it, used it as a weapon to control and manipulate me. You name it, he did it. 

For a year we had a good sex life..too bad 20 years sucked. 

I have a healthy sex drive, that's for sure... but the idea of actually sleeping with someone and exposing myself to all that entails scares the living sh!t out of me. Thank goodness for toys or I'd be all backed up. 

Sad but true but I've accepted what is. Maybe it'll get better with time. I don't know and right now, don't care.


----------



## Jellybeans

Freak On a Leash said:


> You won't catch me getting married again.
> 
> I never wanted to move back in with my ex husband again.
> 
> I love the freedom I feel now. Not just physically but emotionally as well.


A lot of that resonates with me, Freak.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I like the way the article points out that life doesn't necessarily get better for women with marriage. Men have long assumed that all women really want to be married and they're doing us a big fat favor to marry us; that may have been true when women didn't have the means to support themselves, but now that most of us do it's not necessary. I wanted to get married to my hb because I loved him, and I'm glad I did, but if something happens with him I don't know if I'd get married again. I guess I'd be open to it but it wouldn't matter that much.
So far hubby is still treating me like a gf, and told me he intends to die married (he's much older); I told him he'd better treat me well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FeministInPink

Freak On a Leash said:


> My ex husband did a real number on me when it came to sex. He wouldn't have sex with me. He withheld it, used it as a weapon to control and manipulate me. You name it, he did it.
> 
> For a year we had a good sex life..too bad 20 years sucked.
> 
> I have a healthy sex drive, that's for sure... but the idea of actually sleeping with someone and exposing myself to all that entails scares the living sh!t out of me. Thank goodness for toys or I'd be all backed up.
> 
> Sad but true but I've accepted what is. Maybe it'll get better with time. I don't know and right now, don't care.


My XH did the exact same thing... before we were married, we had 2 yrs of decent sex, and then it started to fall off. He assured me things would get better, and the romantic in me fell for his BS and married him, thinking things would get better. I spent the next 6 years... well, you know the story, because it's the same as yours.


----------



## FeministInPink

lifeistooshort said:


> I like the way the article points out that life doesn't necessarily get better for women with marriage. Men have long assumed that all women really want to be married and they're doing us a big fat favor to marry us; that may have been true when women didn't have the means to support themselves, but now that most of us do it's not necessary. I wanted to get married to my hb because I loved him, and I'm glad I did, but if something happens with him I don't know if I'd get married again. I guess I'd be open to it but it wouldn't matter that much.
> So far hubby is still treating me like a gf, and told me he intends to die married (he's much older); I told him he'd better treat me well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The tough thing is that many women don't understand that until they find themselves in a crappy marriage, and see how AWFUL it can be. We're spoon-fed these romantic fairy tales about how wonderful marriage is, and how we're all supposed to want it.

I'm really happy being NOT married, and I would like to stay happy. I'm not saying I'll never get married again, but it's going to take a really special guy to convince me that it's worth it. And he better make it worth it. I'm going to make him WORK to get me to marry him; he'd gonna have to prove to me that it's really what he wants, and that he's willing to make that commitment worth my while and what I'm giving up.


----------



## DoF

I read the article as : Pros of being divorced

But what the list doesn't include is the CONS of being divorced

It's really up to individual to make a list of BOTH and decide if they want to be in a relationship again or not.

It would be HARD to come up with the CONS list if you had a really bad marriage, so please keep in mind that there is a LOT to marriage that many women simply haven't experienced/know.

Just like anything else (including my post  ).....take it with a grain of salt and try at your own risk.


----------



## DoF

FeministInPink said:


> The tough thing is that many women don't understand that until they find themselves in a crappy marriage, and see how AWFUL it can be. We're spoon-fed these romantic fairy tales about how wonderful marriage is, and how we're all supposed to want it.


Forget about marriage or other legal terms.

It's simply RELATIONSHIP. Do you want to or not want companionship on regular basis in your life. 

It's pretty simple really.

If you are happy with yourself/by yourself and don't want companionship, that's great.

Whatever floats that boat is what I say.


----------



## Damselfish

I was so glad to read this article. It gives me inspiration, as I have only begun my journey and trying to see through the fog.

I could never picture myself a cougar...perhaps it is time to start thinking that way?

Freak, I want to be like you when I grow up!

Damselfish


----------



## Jellybeans

Damselfish said:


> Freak, I want to be like you when I grow up!


:iagree:


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Damselfish said:


> Freak, I want to be like you when I grow up!
> 
> Damselfish


:smthumbup: But..I never grew up!


----------



## Freak On a Leash

DoF said:


> Forget about marriage or other legal terms.
> 
> It's simply RELATIONSHIP. Do you want to or not want companionship on regular basis in your life.


My answer: *NO*.



> It's pretty simple really.
> 
> If you are happy with yourself/by yourself and don't want companionship, that's great.
> 
> Whatever floats that boat is what I say.


:iagree: And I don't say this out of bitterness or anger. I can honestly say that's all gone. These days I don't give my ex husband much of a thought. He's like a distant storm that blew in, did a lot of damage but has long since gone and just a black cloud receding to on the horizon. Now the sun has come out, is shining brightly overhead and I have better things to worry about then him. 

I was separated for almost 3 years and have been divorced for a year. That's almost 4 years I've lived alone, without a constant companion. Heck, I've only been on one date. And that's by choice! Why? Because I like it that way. 

Not long after I got married I realized I'd made a mistake. As the years rolled on I became more and more convinced of it. I remember being on forums in 2002 and saying that once my kids were on their own I was leaving and looking for places I'd like to move to. It was always my plan to leave. 

In 2008 my husband saw the writing on the wall and made a real attempt to reconcile with me but it was a sham, a momentary diversion. In 2010 it all blew up and I'm now exactly in the place I want to be. 

It's not a matter of waiting for the "right" person to come along because I honestly could care less about that. I make no real attempt to go out and meet people. Don't do online dating, don't do singles groups and while I love attention from men and to flirt and hang out with them I make it very clear that I'm single and loving it. 

I have been hanging with a group of divorced people for the past 2 years now. It's a fun and interesting group. Most of them do want *that* relationship. They are always dating and looking to find a relationship. When they break up with someone they quickly move on to the next. These aren't desperate, broken people. Sure they have problems, just as we all do, but they live well, enjoy their lives and seem like well balanced individuals. 

Some are in relationships...and they are GOOD relationships. They are obviously committed, happy and well suited for each other. I wish them luck and am happy for them but NO WAY do I want what they want! 

I shudder at living the lifestyle that they do. While they don't actually live WITH each other they might as well be. They are always at one or the other's homes. They don't move without the other person. If one can't go to an event or out to a party the other doesn't either. They are involved in each other's family life. AND they seem VERY happy and seem to love it! 

Great, but I look at them and feel stronger than ever that I don't want that. EVER. I want to pack up in a few years and live the life I should've lived 25 years ago. That's what I want. You want to hang with me? Fine. Leave your toothbrush back at YOUR place and come on over but don't expect to stay all that long. 

My rules: I'm free to do my thing and you do yours. When our paths cross we'll party together and have fun but I don't answer to anyone. Those are my terms and while many say that IS what they want, when you get down to the proverbial brass tacks, they really don't. They want that relationship. 

And that's fine with me. It's just not fine FOR me.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

FeministInPink said:


> My XH did the exact same thing... before we were married, we had 2 yrs of decent sex, and then it started to fall off. He assured me things would get better, and the romantic in me fell for his BS and married him, thinking things would get better. I spent the next 6 years... well, you know the story, because it's the same as yours.


I used to tell my ex that there is nothing as hurtful and damaging to the heart and soul as having someone you love reject you completely..emotionally and physically. IMO that's what sex is. It implies so many things. I can't and won't have sex with just anyone. For me, it IS "making love". There has to be a connection there. The fact that he rejected me in the bedroom hit deepest at my psyche and ripped at my soul. I used to beg, cry and plead with him to make love to me and he would literally push me away. And I gotta say, I'm not hard on the eyes. He himself used to say that he was turned on by me. 

No, it wasn't just a loss of libido or lack of sexual desire. It was done cruelly and with great deliberation. It was emotional abuse and manipulation in the purest and most evil form. He would tell me that "perhaps" he would have sex with me if I "acted right" and "did what I was told". When I came to bed, he would be in bed fully clothed with his back turned away from me. This wasn't after a fight but ALL THE TIME....for years and years. When I look back I can't believe that I was so weak and stupid as to have put up with psychological abuse at the hands of a madman. 

For a short period of time he figured out what it was he was going to lose and tried to change but it was so ingrained in him that he couldn't. He went right back and with roughly a quart of rum in him each day, it got even worse. It finally got to the point where I was able to finally break away. At the very, very end, right before I told him I was going to divorce his sorry arse, he tried to turn it around but I was having none of it. Walking away from him was the best thing that ever happened to me. Finally I was free. 

How he sleeps at night and looks at himself in the mirror after all the crap he's done to those who once gave him love is beyond me. No wonder he started drinking. What I can't believe is that he actually is able to stop and still function, but he seems to be and my son loves him and wants to live with him so I try and overlook this because I love and respect my son. 

If he was lying on the street by the curb I'd wouldn't hesitate to wipe my feet on him and keep walking. What's weird is that I look back now and I feel like I'm looking at a sad, pathetic movie about someone else. I can't imagine putting up with that crap now.


----------



## zillard

Jellybeans said:


> _2) Living Apart Can Be Better Than Living Together
> 
> It’s fun being a girlfriend. A wife? Not so much. Cooking, housework, juggling multiple schedules is exhausting — and many women feel they were doing it as a solo act giving 90 percent to someone else’s 10 percent. That’s why LAT (Living Apart Together) relationships are so popular. As I explained in a New York Times article, that’s commitment without living together.
> 
> 9) You’re a realist.
> 
> Divorced women know the lay of the land. They are savvy to relationship pitfalls and work hard to avoid them. As my divorced friend Debbie says, having the freedom to do whatever, with whomever, whenever is worth every penny of living alone._


It might just be me, but I see those two as very contradictory. 

I don't see "do whatever, with whomever, whenever" as "commitment without living together".


----------



## DoF

Freak On a Leash said:


> My answer: *NO*.
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree: And I don't say this out of bitterness or anger. I can honestly say that's all gone. These days I don't give my ex husband much of a thought. He's like a distant storm that blew in, did a lot of damage but has long since gone and just a black cloud receding to on the horizon. Now the sun has come out, is shining brightly overhead and I have better things to worry about then him.
> 
> I was separated for almost 3 years and have been divorced for a year. That's almost 4 years I've lived alone, without a constant companion. Heck, I've only been on one date. And that's by choice! Why? Because I like it that way.
> 
> Not long after I got married I realized I'd made a mistake. As the years rolled on I became more and more convinced of it. I remember being on forums in 2002 and saying that once my kids were on their own I was leaving and looking for places I'd like to move to. It was always my plan to leave.
> 
> In 2008 my husband saw the writing on the wall and made a real attempt to reconcile with me but it was a sham, a momentary diversion. In 2010 it all blew up and I'm now exactly in the place I want to be.
> 
> It's not a matter of waiting for the "right" person to come along because I honestly could care less about that. I make no real attempt to go out and meet people. Don't do online dating, don't do singles groups and while I love attention from men and to flirt and hang out with them I make it very clear that I'm single and loving it.
> 
> I have been hanging with a group of divorced people for the past 2 years now. It's a fun and interesting group. Most of them do want *that* relationship. They are always dating and looking to find a relationship. When they break up with someone they quickly move on to the next. These aren't desperate, broken people. Sure they have problems, just as we all do, but they live well, enjoy their lives and seem like well balanced individuals.
> 
> Some are in relationships...and they are GOOD relationships. They are obviously committed, happy and well suited for each other. I wish them luck and am happy for them but NO WAY do I want what they want!
> 
> I shudder at living the lifestyle that they do. While they don't actually live WITH each other they might as well be. They are always at one or the other's homes. They don't move without the other person. If one can't go to an event or out to a party the other doesn't either. They are involved in each other's family life. AND they seem VERY happy and seem to love it!
> 
> Great, but I look at them and feel stronger than ever that I don't want that. EVER. I want to pack up in a few years and live the life I should've lived 25 years ago. That's what I want. You want to hang with me? Fine. Leave your toothbrush back at YOUR place and come on over but don't expect to stay all that long.
> 
> My rules: I'm free to do my thing and you do yours. When our paths cross we'll party together and have fun but I don't answer to anyone. Those are my terms and while many say that IS what they want, when you get down to the proverbial brass tacks, they really don't. They want that relationship.
> 
> And that's fine with me. It's just not fine FOR me.


Good for you

It all sounds great. I would like you to revisit your post when you are in your 50s/60s though.


----------



## COGypsy

zillard said:


> It might just be me, but I see those two as very contradictory.
> 
> I don't see "do whatever, with whomever, whenever" as "commitment without living together".


Are you making the assumption that "do whatever, with whomever, whenever" automatically connotes sex?

Because to me they make perfect sense together. I'm in a great committed relationship, but that doesn't mean that I'm beholden to him and his schedule.

For example, I'm still at the office and will be for quite a while, I'm thinking. You know what I don't have to do? Be home in time to cook for somebody.

I'm starving for red meat for some reason. You know what I don't have to do? See if burgers sound good to anybody else for dinner.

Baseball opening day is today. You know what I don't have to do? Baseball stuff.

On the flip side, when I got back to town this weekend, I got to run errands and putter in the new garden with Mr. Mantastic. 

He got his fridge loaded up with all the leftovers I didn't get around to eating this week--shrimp scampi and pot pie, as I was headed out of town.

At this point in my life, I can't easily imagine living with someone any time real soon. I love managing MY life and not having to coordinate every detail with anyone else. I feel like I get all of the good from our relationship without most of the drudgery. Is everything fun? Totally not. For the big things, we're there for each other. But there's no compelling need from either of us to jump back into the "whose turn is it to cook tonight" rigamarole of marriage and cohabitation.

Doesn't mean that either one of us is out tearing up the town...


----------



## COGypsy

DoF said:


> Forget about marriage or other legal terms.
> 
> It's simply RELATIONSHIP. Do you want to or not want companionship on regular basis in your life.
> 
> It's pretty simple really.
> 
> If you are happy with yourself/by yourself and don't want companionship, that's great.
> 
> Whatever floats that boat is what I say.


Whether you use the legal terms or not, you seem to be saying that relationship and companionship can only happen in shared living quarters.

Couldn't be further from the truth, in my experience.


----------



## FeministInPink

COGypsy said:


> Are you making the assumption that "do whatever, with whomever, whenever" automatically connotes sex?
> 
> Because to me they make perfect sense together. I'm in a great committed relationship, but that doesn't mean that I'm beholden to him and his schedule.
> 
> For example, I'm still at the office and will be for quite a while, I'm thinking. You know what I don't have to do? Be home in time to cook for somebody.
> 
> I'm starving for red meat for some reason. You know what I don't have to do? See if burgers sound good to anybody else for dinner.
> 
> Baseball opening day is today. You know what I don't have to do? Baseball stuff.
> 
> On the flip side, when I got back to town this weekend, I got to run errands and putter in the new garden with Mr. Mantastic.
> 
> He got his fridge loaded up with all the leftovers I didn't get around to eating this week--shrimp scampi and pot pie, as I was headed out of town.
> 
> At this point in my life, I can't easily imagine living with someone any time real soon. I love managing MY life and not having to coordinate every detail with anyone else. I feel like I get all of the good from our relationship without most of the drudgery. Is everything fun? Totally not. For the big things, we're there for each other. But there's no compelling need from either of us to jump back into the "whose turn is it to cook tonight" rigamarole of marriage and cohabitation.
> 
> Doesn't mean that either one of us is out tearing up the town...


BINGO!

If I ever get into another LTR (which I assume I will, I'm still quite young and not totally jaded ), we will be LTR living apart. There is no way I'm going to move in with someone without marriage, and I'm not going to get married again without a in-depth, well-considered courtship.


----------



## SteveK

As a man with a WAW I can tell you that our sex life was amazing. She initiated 80%'of it. Towards the end before she ran, I was the boy toy and her AP was the emotional edge. She told me that my looks and my body are what kept her comming back for more. He is an ugly out of shape MF, but she claims he is deeper and has something she was looking for.

Our MC, IC's and Divorce coach have all related to me that for some reason this 53 year old woman decided she needed to be swept off her feet into a life style she dreamed about..yes the life style of a tour guide.

She even told me life became mundane. Work, cook, clean, deal with the kids, repeat. Funny thing is I did two-thirds of the cooking, half the child rearing and constantly tried to get her to have more fun. Tried to hire cleaning services that she would promptly fire.

Now her plans are to divorce me, wait two years and then marry her POS and run off to his country with him. She tells me that the physical intimacy with him is not even close to ours..who knows what to believe. I do know he told me when our family's were friends that he had some issues with ED.

The worst part is when my wife said to me right after she ran and her EA went PA:
" he's a really sweet guy and he was In So much pain, we have been having this long distance E A and then only three times in 18 months did we actually see each other. We were never intimate until I went back to his country in February for a week", she continued,". Dear husband you have to realize that this pain in him came from the fact that he new you and I were having sex three to four times a week, and he and I had never even kissed"!

Where does that fit in this article?


----------



## zillard

COGypsy said:


> Are you making the assumption that "*do whatever, with whomever, whenever*" automatically connotes sex?


Automatically? Of course not. 
Is marriage always necessary for fulfillment? No
Is living together necessary for commitment? No

I can see the pros of many points in this article. I do live alone with my daughter and enjoy MANY aspects of that. 

But do you deny that it is an incredibly open ended statement?

I personally have an aversion to the statement. But that's mine. 
If it works for you, by all means, live it. I won't judge.


----------



## zillard

FeministInPink said:


> BINGO!
> 
> If I ever get into another LTR (which I assume I will, I'm still quite young and not totally jaded ), we will be LTR living apart. There is no way I'm going to move in with someone without marriage, and I'm not going to get married again without a in-depth, well-considered courtship.


I agree with this. 

I think most people should not marry without an in-depth, well considered courtship, lasting at bare minimum 2 years. Or at least until the honeymoon phase has passed to see how truly committed the person is vs. natural reactions to oxytocin. 

It does seem that you are at least open to the possibility of marriage in the future, rather than a lifelong LTR living apart situation. 

I get it. I'm pretty fn jaded too. Barely trust anyone at this point. The thought of living together or getting married frankly scares the crap out of me. Seems misery is inevitable with both. 

But I refuse to believe that. I will not cross those possibilities off my list. I am trying to put other possibilities on the list, though.


----------



## Jellybeans

FeministInPink said:


> If I ever get into another LTR (which I assume I will, I'm still quite young and not totally jaded ), we will be LTR living apart.


I am of this school of thinking, too. It sounds ideal to me.

Marriage does not even come to mind for me again. It simply isn't something I'm sure I'd even want to do again. Truly.


----------



## FeministInPink

zillard said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I think most people should not marry without an in-depth, well considered courtship, lasting at bare minimum 2 years. Or at least until the honeymoon phase has passed to see how truly committed the person is vs. natural reactions to oxytocin.
> 
> *It does seem that you are at least open to the possibility of marriage in the future, rather than a lifelong LTR living apart situation.
> 
> I get it. I'm pretty fn jaded too. Barely trust anyone at this point. The thought of living together or getting married frankly scares the crap out of me. Seems misery is inevitable with both. *
> 
> But I refuse to believe that. I will not cross those possibilities off my list. I am trying to put other possibilities on the list, though.


I'm open to it, but it would take a really exceptional guy to get me there; what he would offer as a partner would have to far outweigh what I would have to give up to be in a marriage. 

I didn't realize just how much I gave up for my marriage, how much I sacrificed to try to make it work. Now that I'm out of it, looking back, I will not make that mistake again.


----------



## FeministInPink

And I really like having my freedom. That's awesome. I have a hard time imagining the possibility of tying myself down to someone again.

I'm really a free spirit at heard, and I've let myself get tied down not just by my former marriage, but by my job, my possessions, my life, and I've realized that I don't want ANY of this. This was never what I wanted in this first place. But I let society, my family, and other forces convince me that I needed to settle, that settle meant stability and safety, and that was happiness. But I don't think it is.

I'm starting to reconnect with what I really want out of life and figuring out a way to make that happen.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I love that you guys won't bash me for this. (Hopefully) But I'm over it. Freedom is overrated. I'd gladly do a lot of compromising.

I'm tired. I'm tired of doing it all, fixing it all, handling everything... yeah, how empowering to know I can build a screened porch or do all of the sheet rock patching when there was plumbing work. Or that I understand transmission slippage, what "aftermarket" means, that the reason my self-propelled mower doesn't "propel" is because the cable stretched and needs to be tightened, or that driveway concrete should be 4" thick to meet code.

I want to make dinner every night and fix his plate. I want to pick up his towel for the 100th time because he keeps tossing it on the towel hook carelessly. I want to get up and fetch a beer because the game just got good. I want to be a passenger in the car for a change because I love road trips but hate driving. I want to run a glass of iced tea out to him in the heat of summer when he's mowing, or stand to the side of the car handing him spark plugs one at a time while HE changes them. I want to do laundry and pair up his socks the way he likes and clean the kitchen after dinner while he lets the dog out one last time. And show love in all of the ways I can. 

I don't want to worry if my career is progressing fast enough to make my retirement goals, or get that bonus so I can get the house painted, or fret if I lose my job there is NOONE to pick up the slack for just a month or two until I find another. I don't want to spend two hours on line trying to figure out how to replace the dryer belt or connect the wii to the internet so I can finally see NetFlicks on a screen bigger than my lap top. I want to go to parties knowing he'll want to leave before me so I need to look out for his 'signal' for when he's had enough because I'm more social then let him take my hand and go home. I want to sit through a country music concert and then drag him to see Les Miserables. And I will gently chastise his cheeseburger habit and search for tasty ways to make him healthy food and suggest we take walks after dinner every night and pick out the shoes for his outfit for work the next day.

Yeah, women should have equal pay, etc. etc. etc. But for me I know I'll be happiest when I'm sharing all that I've done with someone else. I grew to dislike, resent and even sometimes hate my husband but I always loved being a wife and I miss it.


----------



## zillard

EnjoliWoman said:


> Freedom is overrated. I'd gladly do a lot of compromising.


I'll gladly change your spark plugs and lay concrete if you cook me dinner afterward. Then tomorrow, I'll cook you dinner when you get home from the spa.


----------



## FeministInPink

EnjoliWoman said:


> I love that you guys won't bash me for this. (Hopefully) But I'm over it. Freedom is overrated. I'd gladly do a lot of compromising.
> 
> I'm tired. I'm tired of doing it all, fixing it all, handling everything... yeah, how empowering to know I can build a screened porch or do all of the sheet rock patching when there was plumbing work. Or that I understand transmission slippage, what "aftermarket" means, that the reason my self-propelled mower doesn't "propel" is because the cable stretched and needs to be tightened, or that driveway concrete should be 4" thick to meet code.
> 
> I want to make dinner every night and fix his plate. I want to pick up his towel for the 100th time because he keeps tossing it on the towel hook carelessly. I want to get up and fetch a beer because the game just got good. I want to be a passenger in the car for a change because I love road trips but hate driving. I want to run a glass of iced tea out to him in the heat of summer when he's mowing, or stand to the side of the car handing him spark plugs one at a time while HE changes them. I want to do laundry and pair up his socks the way he likes and clean the kitchen after dinner while he lets the dog out one last time. And show love in all of the ways I can.
> 
> I don't want to worry if my career is progressing fast enough to make my retirement goals, or get that bonus so I can get the house painted, or fret if I lose my job there is NOONE to pick up the slack for just a month or two until I find another. I don't want to spend two hours on line trying to figure out how to replace the dryer belt or connect the wii to the internet so I can finally see NetFlicks on a screen bigger than my lap top. I want to go to parties knowing he'll want to leave before me so I need to look out for his 'signal' for when he's had enough because I'm more social then let him take my hand and go home. I want to sit through a country music concert and then drag him to see Les Miserables. And I will gently chastise his cheeseburger habit and search for tasty ways to make him healthy food and suggest we take walks after dinner every night and pick out the shoes for his outfit for work the next day.
> 
> Yeah, women should have equal pay, etc. etc. etc. But for me I know I'll be happiest when I'm sharing all that I've done with someone else. I grew to dislike, resent and even sometimes hate my husband but I always loved being a wife and I miss it.


I think everyone's entitled to want what they want, so I'm cool with that. I see the appeal. I didn't like being a wife because of my XH; but maybe that would be different with a man who treats me with love and respect.

I can see how it would get tiring doing everything. I see that as the trade off. I see all of this as showing love to myself in all the ways that I can.

I like the idea of having a partner in crime. But I think that, in general, men get a lot more out of marriage/benefit more from marriage than women do. And personally, I'm not sure it's worth it. For me, anyway. 

If you, or any other divorced woman, wants to get married again, I'm totally in support of that. :smthumbup:


----------



## skype

That was a beautiful post, Enjoli! Some guy is going to be damn lucky to snag you.


----------



## zillard

It depends on the marriage. 

Just as many in this thread have different views on what a committed relationship looks like. 

Marriage does not always equal 90% work for women, duck off and be lazy for men. 

I'm a work at home Dad. I get my kid up and off to school. I cook, clean, and do the yard work, accountant, mechanic, plumber, electrician, and dance around the house in a tutu with my daughter stuff. I did when I was married, I do it now divorced, and I will do it all in the future. I'm not looking for relief in any of those areas.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

zillard said:


> I'll gladly change your spark plugs and lay concrete if you cook me dinner afterward. Then tomorrow, I'll cook you dinner when you get home from the spa.





zillard said:


> It depends on the marriage.
> 
> Just as many in this thread have different views on what a committed relationship looks like.
> 
> Marriage does not always equal 90% work for women, duck off and be lazy for men.
> 
> I'm a work at home Dad. I get my kid up and off to school. I cook, clean, and do the yard work, accountant, mechanic, plumber, electrician, and dance around the house in a tutu with my daughter stuff. I did when I was married, I do it now divorced, and I will do it all in the future. I'm not looking for relief in any of those areas.


Not a fan of the Spa, but thanks! 

It's not that I mind doing those things, it's that I would SO much enjoy doing them WITH someone! Yard work, dinner, home improvement, vacations - the hard work and the rewards. Some days I just feel tired of carrying the load all alone. Might have something to do with the $750 vet bill which set back my bathroom renovation. 

I just want to flick soap bubbles at someone while doing dishes, and snap a towel at his butt when he's not paying attention. Seems being single is all work and no play! I love to get my teen to goof around with me. 

At least I'll appreciate all of that when my time comes. 

ETA - being a single PARENT... all work/no play. Being single was just play!


----------

