# Am I being insecure or am I terribly wrong?



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

I know this is a long post, but you need all the info I can give in order to help/give advice. 

Been married 15 years. We are both 38. We have 2 kids 13, 9. Please follow along carefully because its important to try and understand the entire dynamic of what I’m dealing with. 
Problem: Wife has been texting her old boyfriend from high school. I have to give a little back story so that I can hopefully get the best advice possible. 

High School : my now wife was dating my best friend, (ken) They date junior and senior years of high school. They then go off to college, things fall apart, and being that her and I had always been friends, we gravitated to each other, and long story short we eventually got married and have been ever since, of course this ended mine and his friendship.

My wife can be the most caring person you’ll ever meet. She will sacrifice her own time and mental well being to help solve other people’s problems. Kind of like their problems become her problems. This is something that I admire but at the same time can be problematic when I think that she is putting more time into people outside the family and then is to “spent” to be any good to me and the kids. 

Late last year a friend of ours from high school died in what appeared to be suicide. This really upset her (she is very emotional about death in general). This death really ate at her and she felt sad that maybe he just needed someone to talk to and maybe his death could have been avoided. (this guys was married with kids ). 

So, around Christmas time 2011, her mission became trying contact old high school friend hoping to reconnect with some old friends just because it made her feel good. The problem that I had with this is that it was with old guy friends, and one of them was her old boyfriend. Which got her to thinking how badly things had ended between them and she needed closure. My wife has always been very open and honest to me about everything. She told me what all they talked about, I could tell that it was really affecting her mood and suggested that this dialog between them was not healthy. I suggested that she call her therapist (who she sees like maybe once a year) and get her take on things. She agreed and talked with her several times and the conclusion was this relationship is in the past and to let it go because it will cause problems in your marriage. So she stopped communication with him (ex bf) but continued a friendly dialog with another mutual friend,(Wes lives 10hrs away, married) which I was sort of ok with. 

This is where my part in all of this gets tricky. I snooped. I looked at our cell phone records and could see that she talked and texted Wes a lot. I was able to look at her phone a couple of times and read the text and they were harmless. This went on for several months, and she would occasionally tell me that she talked to Wes and he was doing ok. I became more and more jealous because I started thinking the worst of her. I looked at phone records again, and noticed that she had talked to him over an 1.5 hrs on one occasion. I confronted her on it, told her I had looked at the records…. she was pissed! I tried to explain how it made me feel and she said she understood but that it was nothing and I had absolutely nothing to worry about. I was like what can you possibly talk to someone for an hour and a half about. She said she felt spied on and that she had never given me a reason to worry about her cheating on me. She also said that she should be able to talk to whomever she wants as long as it does not violate marriage. My take is that anything that makes the other spouse uneasy should not be continued to be done. Well she kinda got over that and life moved on. 
A few weeks ago she tells me that she was on FB and saw that old bf (Ken) was getting a divorce. She felt bad for him, talked with him on FB, which she told me about. Well by this time I had a key logger on her laptop so I was able to read what was said. And it was harmless, she express how sorry she was that this has happened and hoped that they could work it out. I again let her know that I really don’t like them talking. I again told her that even though she may think she is having innocent contact with him, that’s how stuff gets started. She said she understood my feelings and I really had nothing to worry about, she is totally committed to me and our family. But she said that she just needs to stop telling me every time she talks to him. That was about a month ago.
So yesterday I check our cell phone records, between the 2 of them they had sent almost 140 texts(yesterday) I looked at her phone last night and she had deleted all of their text. She’s not mentioned anything to me about talking to him. I’m at a loss. I don’t know what to do. I haven’t eaten in 24 hrs, can concentrate on anything but this. What should I do? If I say something about all the text then she will know I’ve been snooping again and this will start a **** storm in its self. A big part of me really believes that it is innocent, but I’m more bothered that she is hiding it. It’s not like they text everyday, but I don’t approve. I’m lost here. Do I need to get some professional help and talk this through? Confront her again? Will this just push her away and make her hide it even more. 

If something is unclear or you need more info please let me know. I want to make this better, I cannot live like this. 

Doug


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

IMO, its time to put your foot down. Your wife is not interested in your marriage I'm sorry to say. She continues to look outside of her marriage for what ever is troubling her on the inside. She is in a fog too, she is justifying her actions when she is talking to these men or texting etc. Her behavior is unacceptable. You need to tell her that, of course she will get mad, because she is doing something she knows she really shouldn't be. Innocent or not, she isn't focused on improving her marriage. 

I would say this has been going on long enough. If you are willing to go to drastic measures if things don't stop with what shes doing, then I would say give her a ultimatium. She needs to cut all contact with these men friends, and focus on her marriage, if she doesn't, pack your bags and leave, or better yet pack hers. People need to be held accountable for their actions, if they aren't, they will not stop what they are doing.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *she said that she just needs to stop telling me every time she talks to him. *That was about a month ago


.



> A big part of me really believes that it is innocent, but I’m more bothered that she is hiding it.


IMO she's not hiding it. She told you she would stop telling you how often they speak because of how it upsets you. You even say yourself that it's been innocent conversation. I get that you're worried about her friendship with this man, and yes EA's do begin just like this... BUT. That is something you will have to trust your wife to put the kibosh on. 

You've told her how you feel. She acknowledges it, but seriously feels you are overreacting and in turn, is going forward despite your feelings. I don't agree with that. If my husband felt uncomfortable about a friendship I had, his feelings would supercede the friendship, period.

I would have another talk about this with her. Tell her what your fears are. She needs to really understand how much this is all bothering you.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Although it is common for many couples to have martial boundaries that would prevent having opposite sex friends, this is not universal with some couples not having such a boundary. With that said, even couples that do not have boundaries against opposite sex friends have strong boundaries against contact with former boyfriends and girl friends. In other words it is wrong for her to be in contact with her former boyfriend and you have a right to ask her to stop in right now.

The fact that the former boyfriend feels that you moved in on his girl and thus has no issue making a move on your wife, makes their contact even more troubleshooting. Add to this that your wife contacted him upon learning that he was on the market again due to him getting a divorce, and you have even more danger signs. Her deleting her messages with him and openly telling you that not only will she not end contact but will no longer tell you about such contact, have all the makings of her at least being in an emotional affair (EA) with this guy.

Without telling her how you know or what you know, you need to tell her that she must decide now to end all contact with the other man (OM). Tell her that she is in an EA with this OM and that there cannot be 3 in a marraige. Tell her that if she does not agree to break off all contact with the OM that you will file for a divorce and mean it when you say it. You may not want a divorce, but if this continues you will have one anyway. Taking action now increases the odds of you staying married long term.

BTW, all cheaters try to say that they can do what they want and will try to make you feel bad for snooping. Do not even slightly let her go there. Tell her that talking to ex-lovers is out of bounds in all marriages and that you have a right to use any methods to learn about it and end it.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> my now wife was dating my best friend, (ken) They date junior and senior years of high school. They then go off to college, things fall apart, and being that her and I had always been friends, we gravitated to each other, and long story short we eventually got married and have been ever since, of course this ended mine and his friendship.


I read this again, and I have to ask...

Are you concerned about a bit of karma coming back at you for this? You are with your best friends girl. However things ended, this at best seems a very messy way to start out with your wife. Drama drama drama.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Please ask to have your post moved to the Coping with Infidelity section.

I don't need to tell you that 140 texts in one day is a LOT. Assuming each text takes about 15 seconds, give or take, that's at least half an hour texting back and forth. I bet you wish you had half an hour of her undivided attention. Half an hour a day may not sound much but it translates to 3.5 hours per week, and 15 HOURS per month of texting.

lots of texts + deletion of texts + hiding them from you = a secret inappropriate relationship and a betrayal of the marriage (notice we don't even have to plug divorced ex-bf into this equation)

She is in an emotional affair. If she isn't, she is on the brink. If I were you, I'd get the book Not Just Friends. It will help you handle this, it is a soup to nuts book that is very specific and detailed.

You have seen for yourself where confronting gets you. You can confront again, but what you're going to hear is more obfuscation.

Emotional affairs are escapist fantasies from real life. Ex's are the worst because the connection and mutual attraction is already well-established. She isn't going to give up this fantasy just because you're hurt, angry, or upset. You were EXTREMELY clear to her IN ADVANCE about what you believe the marital boundaries to be. She was VERY CLEAR in her response to you that she UNDERSTOOD what your boundaries were and she has chosen to cross them anyhow.

I would find a way to look at the texts, because she is still going to lie to you until you have more concrete evidence. You do not need this extra evidence to tell her to stop, but if you confront one more time and disclose your source, she is going to take it underground (hide it better) because the fantasy is so much fun. Also, concrete evidence will help you enlist those people in your life, such as your family, to support you in protecting the marriage. 

Have you read 
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Married Man Sex Life?

What has been the overall state of your marriage over the last year?


----------



## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

She already knows how much these continued contacts with the old bf are bothering you and now she's trying to hide the texts because she knows that it bothers you. Talk with her again and et her know how much the on-going contact is bothering you. The guy is divorcing and they used to be very close, it won't take much for this to get into EA land, if it isn't already there. 

She needs to cut those ties with her male friends from the past and focus on making you feel safe in your relationship NOW. The ball is in her court. Keep gathering whatever evidence you need. If she continues to keep contact with this person, then she is obviously not respecting your wishes nor focusing her energies on the marriage.


----------



## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

There are ways to possibly retrieve those deleted texts. Ask in the CWI forum.


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

I've thought of this very thing. Their relationship ended in later part of 92. We began dating LDR while I was in another state. There was no drama, we have lived out of his state for many years and no contact has been made until the last 6 months or so.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

tm84 said:


> She already knows how much these continued contacts with the old bf are bothering you and now she's trying to hide the texts because she knows that it bothers you. Talk with her again and et her know how much the on-going contact is bothering you. The guy is divorcing and they used to be very close, it won't take much for this to get into EA land, if it isn't already there.
> 
> She needs to cut those ties with her male friends from the past and focus on making you feel safe in your relationship NOW. The ball is in her court. Keep gathering whatever evidence you need. If she continues to keep contact with this person, then she is obviously not respecting your wishes nor focusing her energies on the marriage.


I agree with everything you've said except about talking to her again right this minute. I think he needs a lay of the land because once he confronts her, the very first reaction she will have is to find an alternate means of communicating with the ex-BF. Immediate confrontation is extremely hard to avoid because finding evidence of inappropriate relationships is emotional for the loyal spouse to say the least. But laying low and finding out as much as he can, first, will make his next confrontation as effective as he can make it.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

husbanddoug said:


> I've thought of this very thing. Their relationship ended in later part of 92. We began dating LDR while I was in another state. There was no drama, we have lived out of his state for many years and no contact has been made until the last 6 months or so.


Ok. I thought I would ask... 

He's certainly not backing down though, innocent contact or not. Maybe HE's not over it as much you two are?

It's been my experience that guys hold grudges a lot longer when it comes to women and friends stepping in on their territory.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Which cell phone does she have?


----------



## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> I agree with everything you've said except about talking to her again right this minute. I think he needs a lay of the land because once he confronts her, the very first reaction she will have is to find an alternate means of communicating with the ex-BF. Immediate confrontation is extremely hard to avoid because finding evidence of inappropriate relationships is emotional for the loyal spouse to say the least. But laying low and finding out as much as he can, first, will make his next confrontation as effective as he can make it.


I agree with you on not confronting right away. My intention was to add that to the "gathering evidence" statement, but something went wrong with the thought-to-typing process there


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

husband,

As others have said, there is alot of troubling Red Flags here.

Instead of delving into those as some of the others have, I wanted to make sure that you know that if EITHER spouse is having contact with ANYONE that causes the other spouse to be uneasy, that contact should stop as soon as the other spouse mentions it's a concern to them. No ifs, ands or buts.

Please also know that in a marriage, there is no true right to privacy. You are joined as one and everthing should be open to the other, all passwords, FB postings, etc.

Also, as others have noted, if she is sharing ANT details about your marriage with him (and I can bet my bottom dollar she's discussed your relationship with her) this is an EA. Any effort that she's directing to him is effort and time that should be spent on you and your kids. 

I agree with iheartlife about confronting her now. See if you can recover some of the deleted texts (all depends on the phone she has) before you confront her. Does she know about the keylogger? If not, keep your eyes peeled and see if she sets up a new email account. That would be a huge deal!

Again, if you're not comfortable with this contact (no matter how innocent) she shouldn't be maintaining it! When the time comes, ask her how she'd feel if in the process to reaching out to old HS friends, all you did was contact women and then carried on communications with them!

Good luck. I think you'll really need it


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Rules about contact with old friends of the opposite sex differ among couples, but your wife is showing that she is capable of pursuing friendships with men even after you communicate pretty reasonable expectations about your boundaries. Personally, I think you are worrying a lot about hurting the feelings of someone who is already slipping out of your marriage. It is very reasonable to tell her that it is time to choose. 

I don't say this as a naive point of view. There is a reason that my wife and I agreed that emails and texts to former girlfriends or boyfriends are completely off limits. Both of us have been pursued by a former girl/boy friend whose divorce led to a rekindling of their heavily romanticized feelings for us. Common sense told me that I would be very vulnerable to this former girlfriend. She always said that we were meant to be together, so why would she travel 1,000 miles after her divorce just to share dinner and see how I was doing? 

The thing is, you had several references to problems where your wife struggled with investing herself heavily into other's lives, even when it was not a former love. It seems like her telling you that she would keep these relationships to herself was telling you everything you needed to know about the recent changes in her. I do not agree with the others who say you should watch and monitor. Wait for what? Wait for her to get so connected to her former boyfriend so closely that even an ultimatum will not make her wake up?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I would suggest you use a hidden VAR to her what she is saying to him before you do anything else.

You've spoken with her and she has bluntly told you that she doesn't regard your feelings as important, certainly not as important as her freedom. That's the response a teenager gives to her parents That's at the core of this. A married person shoud be carring about their SOs feelings, even if they give up a little person do as you please freedom. 

Since this is now at a lot of texts per day and phone calls, itis quite possibly going EA especially since Ken is going to on the prowl to feel good and prove he still can bag girls.

So use a couple of vars, one in her car and one in the bedroom or wherever you think she goes to talk to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

She has a droid X.


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

Just to clarify. 

Her initial contact with ex boyfriend was this past December. She told me about their conversation they had on FB. I was able to see most of the chat log, and what she had told me pretty much matched what was typed. 
Contact with him since was very sporadic. One text here or there. Until yesterday when they pretty much texted back and forth all day.
A month ago, he posted on FB that his dog was sick, our dog had just died so she chatted to him that we had just lost our dog and she hoped that his was ok. At this point she asked him how were things going. He said not well, his wife had left him...papers served and all. She basically said that she was sorry to hear this. Somewhere in the chat she said that I had looked at the cell phone bill and got upset that she was talking to Wes. The OM said to her, don't get in trouble talking to me, its not worth it. Her reply was that it would all be ok. That she is totally innocent in her mind. A big part of me believes this.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think the approach should be as a husband and not as a parent. Telling her NO and I forbid it isn't going to get anywhere.

She already is aware of your spying, thus the deletions. She knows you aren't above it, and her method to resolve the upset you get from what you see is to remove it from sight.

The problem isn't that you see the texts, the problem is she's getting them in the first place. She's not making the connection that your relationship with her (you feel) is being intruded upon by this ex. 

If you tell her you've been still checking on her and snooping, yes that'll make her angry, not for the reasons some others have mentioned here regarding cheating and EA's, but she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own.


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

She is not talking to him on phone at all. It is only text messages and occasionally FB messages.


----------



## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I had similar concerns but there was nowhere near the history so I don't know if what I am saying will help. The problem with setting these sorts of boundaries is that in your wifes mind, they are already there. She probably genuinley believes she won't get into an EA and that she is completely faithful to you so what's the problem? In her mind you are being controlling and trying to stop her from getting into something she knows in her mind won't happen. She looks at these guys as friends and who are you to tell her who she can and cannot be friends with and who are you to monitor and regulate her actions in regards to her friends. Mind you, this is how she thinks. It gets annoying to her so now she finds it easier to just delete the texts then to deal with you.

My wife felt the same way and I did the same things as you because I was sure something was going on because of the secrecy. She started going back and deleting FB messages that I had seen which were totally benign. She even deleted some from a guy that started getting inapropriate with her that she completely shot down.

In the end it was all exactly as she said it was and all I ended up with was me being paranoid and a wife who pulled back and became even more private (which made me more paranoid) since I was so intent on observing every little thing she did.

It has taken alot of time to break this cycle. In the end, you have to decide to just trust her. You have to trust that she will establish those boundaries herself and honor the marriage.

You will relax, she will relax and things will become much more comfortable. 

I'm not saying ignore the red flags if you find them, just don't go creating them to justify your own suspicions.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

The problem with Emotional Affairs is that they are trojan horses. The vast majority of people start out by communicating with someone who has sexual potential. Doesn't have to be an ex, just someone who meets some bare minimum of qualities. The two people start out with innocuous conversations that are entirely innocent. Pretty much no one wakes up, looks in the mirror, and says, "today I'm going to enter an emotional affair."

The point at which the EA definitively starts is when the two start to discuss things that are inappropriate for a spouse to discuss with someone who is outside the marriage. The likely starting point between these two would be for her to be a shoulder for him to cry on through his divorce. He tells her all about how awful his wife is / was, and she consoles him. She isn't going to say "you both contributed to the situation you're in right now," instead she will avoid criticism and will stick to vacuous validation. Wouldn't you?

Just this topic alone is off limits for discussion with her and crosses the marital boundary. But what it does is it puts her in the role of rescuing him. That is something that gives anyone a boost and makes them feel special.

The next turn would be for her to start confiding in him about her marriage, and he would express support and care in turn (not love, just care). Bang, they are off to the races.

It takes only about 2 or 3 weeks to become completely infatuated with someone. It's not love, because love requires actually knowing someone and accepting them as a totality. But the feeling is very powerful and intoxicating. Many married people assume they will never feel this way again and it's been long enough since they experienced it before that they will tightly hold the EA to their chest just like Gollum with the ring.

------------------

but all that said, A Bit Much makes a difficult point and the answer is tough. When someone is at the brink of an emotional affair, the spouse exhibiting a lack of trust can add fuel to the fire. You would never be the cause of her entering an emotional affair, but perhaps if she says to herself, "I'll show you, I KNOW I can handle this," all of a sudden she is upticking her communications with him in an immature bid to prove you wrong.

I just said this a few minutes ago in another thread, EAs start with the spouse telling you, "not me, not me, not me" looking at you over their shoulder, dead in the eye, but the pit of the EA is in front of them and they're not paying attention to the direction that they're going.


My favorite book on the subject is linked in my signature.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

How to recover deleted text messages from Droid - Please help i deleted important pictures on my droid ally and need to restore them to my phone :: Ask Me Fast


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I also have a second book for you, in addition to Not Just Friends, also check out Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

From what I can gather your wife is a "rescuer." It's OK to have empathy and be there for others who are in need, but not at the expense of your own well-being or that of your family. Emotionally investing in other people's problems (unless it's our spouse or close family) is unhealthy, and often indicative of a need to escape from our own issues.

I can well understand your concerns about the texting and telephone calls. IMO, it is totally inappropriate for someone to be in constant contact with members of the opposite sex (particularly ex partners). Whilst it may be totally innocent, it makes the other partner feel disrespected and uncomfortable, and eventually those feelings can lead to feelings of insecurity and jealousy - both of which are killers to a happy, healthy relationship.

Somehow you wife needs to be made fully aware of how this is affecting you (possibly in MC), and stop damaging her relationship with you.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own"

While this may be true, I still think that you need to impress on her that while you do trust her, you don't feel comfortable about this relationship

I would also be concerned that the OM basically said "we shouldn't talk if it bothers your husband" and she said not to worry! Sorry but she is definitely the pursuer in this, innocent or otherwise!


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Toffer said:


> "she'll be angry for you not trusting that she has control of this situation. On her own"
> 
> While this may be true, I still think that you need to impress on her that while you do trust her, you don't feel comfortable about this relationship
> 
> *I would also be concerned that the OM basically said "we shouldn't talk if it bothers your husband" and she said not to worry! Sorry but she is definitely the pursuer in this, innocent or otherwise*!


Pursuer? Interesting point. I see it another way. She feels needed. Useful. Supportive. Helpful. And the value of those feelings from being there for a friend have superceded the value of her husbands feelings about this particular friend. 

Maybe she doesn't feel that way with her husband?

ETA: I think telling him not to worry is a statement like 'I got this'. She is under control of this entire thing. It's not going anywhere other than where it is, a genuine friendship.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Pursuer? Interesting point. I see it another way. She feels needed. Useful. Supportive. Helpful. And the value of those feelings from being there for a friend have superceded the value of her husbands feelings about this particular friend.
> 
> Maybe she doesn't feel that way with her husband?


Some people genuinely aren't getting their needs met. The issue is, frequently the loyal spouse feels the very same way. I know I did! But one person breaks the marital boundaries, but the other one doesn't. That's why apportioning blame to marital problems is at least 50/50, but entering into an affair is 100% the stupid choice of one person, the disloyal spouse.

Then there's the case of people who are damaged or broken in some way. They need to feel valid 24/7 and no one spouse can fill that need. You can work night and day to fix the marriage, but the fixing really needs to happen INSIDE the spouse who breaks the marital boundaries. Good look with that if they don't think they need fixing. (And some people can't be fixed, period.)

It may be that because this is on the brink, if he comes in and works on the marriage to turn things around, it could make a difference. In that case, the excellent books to read are:
His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley (have your wife take the free Her Needs questionniare on the website)

Love Busters by Dr. Harley (ditto re website questionnaire)

5 Love Languages (free website quiz, a jump start to improving your marriage; people frequently express love to others the way they want to receive it, but often both spouses don't match up)

And our MC swears that The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman will put him out of business.

But emotional affairs are powerful things, a marriage will not show noticeable improvement if 3 people are in it, and the fantasy is so powerful that the disloyal spouse doesn't much notice nor do they contribute their fair share of improving things. She may not be in one--I need to keep saying that--but realize that if she were to enter into one this would be the case.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

husbanddoug said:


> She is not talking to him on phone at all. It is only text messages and occasionally FB messages.


She needs to let you see them, if they are harmless then there should be nothing to hide and if she respects your marriage she will do what she can to appease you.

A man fresh from a D is going to want to hook up, I would be concern about his motivations. What she is doing is inappropriate for a married woman and needs to come clean asap. Do not tolerate her hiding communications with him.


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> She needs to let you see them, if they are harmless then there should be nothing to hide and if she respects your marriage she will do what she can to appease you.


One thing that is stopping me from doing that is this. The time I told her that I snooped and looked at phone records, I told her I would not do it again. So if I confront her about the texts then it shows i've been dishonest and went back on my word. So that will blow up in my face. I by all means want to make this marriage last forever. If I'm wrong, and she is in fact innocent then I'm definitely the bad guy and can not be trusted.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you have to do is estabilsh values and live by your values. 
If you belive that this is a is marriage harming lack of boundaries... Then you belive that she is harming the marriage and therefore you must also believe that the harm if left to continue will destroy the marriage. Right? You have to decide you belive in this or not.

IF you do believe in what you feel, it's pretty easy to offer her the choice to stop harming the marriage or accept that she is leaving it per the definition of marriage as you see it...

The mistake you will make is deciding this is somethign you don't like and is harmful to your marriage, but being afraid if you stand up for your values that your wife will get mad and leave you... You can't have this be something you feel is wrong or has no place in your marriage while simulatanousely allowing it.


----------



## husbanddoug (May 30, 2012)

What if I just sat her down and ask her if she has been in contact with him? If she fesses up and says yes, then I can ask to see the text, which I already know she has deleted. This would get it all out in the open again and I have not exactly let her know I that I went back on my word. If she says that she has not talked with him then I can say ok and I will know all I need to know, or I can let her know that i've seen where she has in fact been texting him. 
Face-in-palm, I don't know what to do.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

husbanddoug said:


> What if I just sat her down and ask her if she has been in contact with him? If she fesses up and says yes, then I can ask to see the text, which I already know she has deleted. This would get it all out in the open again and I have not exactly let her know I that I went back on my word. If she says that she has not talked with him then I can say ok and I will know all I need to know, or I can let her know that i've seen where she has in fact been texting him.
> Face-in-palm, I don't know what to do.


Tricking her into fessing up isn't the way to go. And there's no guarantee she'll show you anything. She'll answer your question and that's that. As I said earlier, I believe she knows you're still snooping. She doesn't have to delete texts from herself, she did that to keep you from seeing it.

It doesn't make any of this right. She's still in contact, and you lied to her. No bueno on both ends.

Tell her and take your lumps. Otherwise say nothing about what you found, but reiterate to her you don't like the communication and explain why it's so important to you. If she continues to defend herself (which she most likely will) you need to just lay it all out. Is her marriage important, or this guy? She has to choose.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

husbanddoug said:


> One thing that is stopping me from doing that is this. The time I told her that I snooped and looked at phone records, I told her I would not do it again. So if I confront her about the texts then it shows i've been dishonest and went back on my word. So that will blow up in my face. I by all means want to make this marriage last forever. If I'm wrong, and she is in fact innocent then I'm definitely the bad guy and can not be trusted.


 This is a trap that many fall into. You are letting the person that is having the EM set the rules as to what is right and wrong. While she is in the fog of an EA, her moral compass is lost and she will say and do anything to protect her right to continue in the EA. She may not even know what an EA is or recognize that it is cheating.

You must tell her that both spouses have a right to look at phone records and to ask questions and that after thinking this through you intend to look at the phone records. Saying this up front, do not ask her permission and then do it in front of her. Tell her that changing your mind on is morally acceptable because you have a right to do what is necessary to protect your marraige from a former lover that is not and has never been a friend of the marraige. Tell her that it is wrong for her to maintain any contact with any former lover, and that that is the real issue.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

husbanddoug said:


> What if I just sat her down and ask her if she has been in contact with him? If she fesses up and says yes, then I can ask to see the text, which I already know she has deleted. This would get it all out in the open again and I have not exactly let her know I that I went back on my word. If she says that she has not talked with him then I can say ok and I will know all I need to know, or I can let her know that i've seen where she has in fact been texting him.
> Face-in-palm, I don't know what to do.


Do you think she knows that you keylogged the computer?


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Dead on, TRy.


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> From what I can gather your wife is a "rescuer." It's OK to have empathy and be there for others who are in need, but not at the expense of your own well-being or that of your family. Emotionally investing in other people's problems (unless it's our spouse or close family) is unhealthy, and often indicative of a need to escape from our own issues.


I agree with this comment & the many who have stated it is totally inappropriate behaviour your wife is displaying. No use curing this current activity of reaching out to others for it happen again in the future.

Your wife is obviously not feeling forfilled emotionally, addressing cause is better than continuously trying to find a cure, marriage is also built on trust, her secrecy betrays this but so will your activity of spying if you choose to go down that path.

All the best


----------



## seesah (Apr 26, 2012)

Paulination said:


> I'm not saying ignore the red flags if you find them, just don't go creating them to justify your own suspicions.


I just want to add to this because my husband and I have had similar issues as of late but I have been the accusatory one. A rumor started about an affair between my husband and a good friend of ours and it has been incredibly difficult for me to trust him. At first, he would allow me to check his text messages, recent calls, facebook, email, etc. He even installed tracking software on his phone so that I could keep a close eye on his every move. However, even all of that wasn't enough. I still insisted that he was hiding something. If the tracking software was a bit off and he didn't appear where he told me he would be, I would immediately call him and freak out if he didn't answer. Eventually it got to the point to where I was mentally abusing myself, checking phone logs for phone numbers that he called repeatedly, checking his facebook and email several times a day to catch an email before he deleted it, I once woke him up in the middle of the night and told him that I needed to see text messages that he had deleted and told him to write down all of his contacts because the method of retrieving the text messages may wipe the sim card memory. I was getting crazy! Eventually he stopped enabling me. He put a code on his phone and deleted the tracking software. Honestly, it's been easier since.

My point in all of this is that just because she is not telling you when she is contacting him doesn't mean that it's not innocent. At this point I would imagine that your paranoia about it is so intense that no matter how many chats or text messages you read, it would still not prove to you that she's not having an affair. Knowing is so much easier than not knowing. Furthermore, defensive behavior is also not always an indicator of guilt. When my husband is feeling especially self-conscious and asks me if I'm remaining faithful, I get a little defensive because I don't see what "red flags" he saw or where he may have gotten that idea.

What has helped me is telling myself that I have no control over what happens. You have no control over whether she's going to have an EA. You could check every phone log and text message, watch her every move on the computer, etc. She will probably still find a way to hide it. Especially if it's emotional. I admit that she should have more respect about your wishes about her communications with this guy but if she thinks it's completely innocent and thinks that you just don't trust her, she's less likely to stop talking with him.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Doug---to start with if everything with her texts was innocent, then she wouldn't have to delete them---she full well knows this whole situation is bothering you, yet she continues---THAT IS KNOWN AS DISRESPECT

If this was all so innocent, then it would be a few texts once in a while, and that is it, ----in essence---140 texts with this guy Wes, is probably more time than she is giving you. How many times in a week, do you or your wife, text your local friends---not that many---you say what needs to be said, and you move on.

You need to get it out of your head that whatever you do to protect yourself, will be taken the wrong way----ANYTIME YOU ARE PROTECTING YOUR MGE/FAMILY, you can do whatever is necessary

She is way out of line---due to the quantity, of contact with this guy Wes.

What reason/motive can there be for 140 texts in a day---what can they be talking about, if they have something to discuss, discuss it, and be done---she is going on and on, with another man, and at this point he is an ENEMY of your mge.

You need to sit her down, and do NOT BE NICE ABOUT ANY OF THIS---You tell her it stops, and it stops now---(and you do not need any more evidence, than what you already have,) or she can pack her clothes, and go move in with him, this is what you need to say---SHE HAS TO KNOW YOU ARE DEADLY SERIOUS, no more wishy-washy, mr. nice-guy, from you.

You tell her the 2 of you have made a life together, you thought that your vows meant something, and that she respected you, it is obvious she does not, cuz she is carrying on with another man----innocent conversation, or not---it is way to much, and therefore inapropos.

Nothing is gonna stop, on her part unless you MAKE IT STOP

You say what you have to say---you allow no discussion, no arguing, no anything on her part----when you are finished---YOU LEAVE---go drive around, see your friends, disappear for a couple of hours, and do not allow her to contact you

When you get home you stay aloof, and and keep her at arm's length

She has to know she is hurting you, and that this is bothering you, and you are worrying about the mge------If she can't see that, and is not willing to agree to your wishes, to protect/preserve the mge, and family---then you have a whole lot more problems than you thought you had.

This has nothing to do with her talking to these 2 guys---this has to do with the protection/preservation/existence, of a happy well run mge., that is working----and her talking to ANY OTHER MAN about anything 140 times a day----WAY, WAY, WAY, VIOLATES THAT!!!!!!!


----------



## Manas (May 29, 2012)

husbanddoug said:


> If I'm wrong, and she is in fact innocent then I'm definitely the bad guy and can not be trusted.


I dont think you are the bad guy, I think you are the nice guy if you are thinking so much about what she will think.

You are unsure, you are sitting on the fence. And you are showing that to your wife. You cant do that.

I dont think a woman is going to listen to someone who is unsure of what he is doing. I mean, even if you know you are dead right its so damn hard to win an argument with a woman (she is just gonna get sentimental, drag the argument to past irrelevant topics etc etc). So you got to make up your mind first. I cant tell you what to do coz you know yourself, her and the situation much better. Am just gonna say that you got to make up your mind and stop sitting on the fence (she is not gonna respect that), take either of two courses of action.

Either tell yourself and her that you are totally confident about her, make some firm boundaries, and act the part. Be confident that she is yours and yours alone. Dont snoop around too much, take her out on a vacation (spend time alone and probably she will blurt out if there is anything in her mind), stop thinking about all this, and tell her real coolly that her being in contact with her ex really makes you feel bad and no matter what her reasons she should not do it if only coz you feel bad.

Or you got to make a really big scene. I mean the moment you see **** like 150 msgs (maybe even 15) act like it was the last straw that broke it. You got to be hollywood a lil bit. You gotta come on very strong to pass the msg. Break the phone, break a couple of your cupboards. Shout and scream. Cry in front of her. Storm out of the house and dont come back for a long time. Punch the wall, break your fist a lil bit. You get the drift. Younger women often fall for this ****. In fact they wait for something like this to stop doing something which they are doing and know are wrong. I dont know how older women will take it, but i guess it will pass on the msg.

Either of the two approaches should be better than sitting on the fence and killing yourself from inside, and leaving all the cards on her hands. You got to take a stand.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Unless you have a history of being jealous, she doesn't respect you.

Huge red flag.

And what kind of wife deliberately seeks out male "friends" to contact? Issues a plenty over there.

And I hate the terms "snooping" or "spying". You guys are married! That expectation of privacy vanished in cloud of smoke when she said I do.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sinnister said:


> And I hate the terms "snooping" or "spying". You guys are married! That expectation of privacy vanished in cloud of smoke when she said I do.


It's called, discovering that someone repeatedly lies to your face and deciding that at some point you've heard enough lies that you are forced to verify when they're telling the truth, and when they're not.

Cheating--emotionally or physically--essentially is dating and/or having multiple sex partners while staying married. When you get married, if you believe in fidelity, you agreed not to date ANY MORE.

Cheaters want to date first, divorce later. Or, date first, and keep right on dating until they feel like stopping, all while staying married.

Cheaters don't give you any choices, they want to reserve those for themselves.

You can't fix a marriage with 3 people in it. Working on the marriage is tough, unpleasant work that requires us to face those things about ourselves that require changing and compromise. 

I changed so much during my husband's secret emotional affair that you'd hardly recognize me (if you could see me on the inside). That didn't make him end his emotional affair on his own--although it did help him walk away without looking back AFTER he got caught...the second time (same woman).


----------

