# Cheat or leave?



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
Would you rather your partner cheat or leave you? I'm sure most people would prefer neither, but if it came down to this - if they were so unhappy with their sex life, which would you prefer that they do.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Leave, cheating is just lies upon lies. I would hope that people try to work things out before they call it quits


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good sex is learned. It doesn't just happen. If someone is unsatisfied, their sex lifee can be fixed. Spouses also have to maintain their attractiveness. They have to be romantic, date and stay involved. They also have to rely on themselves, no one else can make you happy.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm trying to figure out the point to this thread... I think you know what the opinion will be, especially in this forum. Are you just trying to create a ruckus?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife's sexual life is my responsibility. If I am able to tend to it but simply have refused over a long period of time, I have ceased to be her husband around the same time I decided to quit attending to her sexual needs. As I would have already left the marriage, her "leaving" would only be formalizing that which I had already done. As I would have long ago abandoned responsibility for her sexual care, what she did with her vagina would not be any of my business. No victim, no crime. If I abandon property, it's none of my business what someone else does with it. If I refuse to do my job, my boss has no choice but to give my duties to another.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Pbear
OK, some of this is my trying to create a "ruckus" :FIREdevil:

But it is also a very serious question. I've heard many people say that someone should leave rather than cheat. This surprises me. I would MUCH rather my wife cheat than leave me. She is the love of my life and has been for many many years. I'd prefer she didn't cheat, but if she did, I could forgive her and we could work it out.

I guess I'm unusual in that to me cheating is bad, but not *B*A*D*. Not like physical violence (which to me is a "leave and don't look back" situation). 

So I really am trying to find out if most people find it so bad that they would rather have their lifetime partner leave than cheat. 




PBear said:


> I'm trying to figure out the point to this thread... I think you know what the opinion will be, especially in this forum. Are you just trying to create a ruckus?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

gee, I don't know, how be honest and work on a problem in earnest together? Can I choose that option?


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

He should talk to me, if after many efforts it failed, then leave


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Almost covered
Sometimes you can, and that is clearly the best option. If you look at lots of threads here though, you will find that often (especially in LD/HD relationships), one partner is not willing to discuss or work on the problem because they don't think it exists, or are unwilling to believe it is important - no matter what they are told. 

Remember that if we are considering people who cheat or leave we are not talking about happy well functioning relationships. Pretty much by definition people in good relationships don't leave or cheat. 



Almostrecovered said:


> gee, I don't know, how be honest and work on a problem in earnest together? Can I choose that option?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Many people cheat or divorce for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their sex life.

In my home, cheating will lead to divorce anyway, so why not eliminate the middle man.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sorry to burst your bubble but my wife had an affair when my marriage wasn't on the rocks, maybe a touch blah, but by no means in any trouble. While I can't say for sure, I do believe that if she had come to me before cheating to work on us I think we could have made the marriage as strong as it is now without that stupid and damaging decision that she made. She damn near killed us.

while having a strong marriage and good boundaries certainly can minimize the risk of a partner cheating, there is no such thing as affair proofing imo.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Leave. 

Leaving displays self-control. 
Cheating displays selfishness.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

what about the third option, an open marriage. I think stats say 5% of couples do that.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening murphy5
For some couples that is an excellent solution. Unfortunately many people find the concept so offensive that many people are afraid to even suggest it. 




murphy5 said:


> what about the third option, an open marriage. I think stats say 5% of couples do that.


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

If we assume for the purpose of this discussion that cheating is done as a last resort when the marriage is not working, hasn't been working in a long time, and there is no reasonable hope that it will work in the future, then I would prefer him to leave.

If the bridge is rotten to the core, then blow it up BEFORE I step out on it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok, here's my input...

I cheated in my marriage. I've posted my story in here a few times. My attitude at the time was that it was a way to cope with an inadequate marriage (primarily on the intimacy side, with other issues), and in the hope of "lasting" till the kids were out of the house. Nobody in my family had ever divorced, so I was trying to avoid breaking up the family. I didn't want to incur the financial hit of divorce and supporting two households. And, as some people here mentioned, I figured if my wife wasn't interested in sex, she had no right to care about me getting it elsewhere. 

Hey, what can I say... I was selfish and concerned only with "me"... I'm not proud of what I did, but these were the things going through my mind to justify things. 

What I found out... Cheating didn't fix SFA (sweet f all). It drove a bigger gap between my wife and myself as I expended my emotional energy on someone else. The guilt and fear of being caught put a huge stress on me. And in the end, it was unsatisfying and empty. It didn't fill the actual intimacy needs I thought I was looking for. 

I ended up telling my wife about 6 weeks after my affair that I wanted out of the marriage. At that time, my AP and I had already broken things off, and I wasn't going to try to pick things up with her again. I realized that my marriage wasn't what was going to make me whole, and it was time to end it. 

To make a long story longer... Cheating isn't a fix for a bad marriage. It doesn't fix what's actually broken. Yes, it might provide an escape for awhile, but in the end, the same problems exist. And that's in a best case... If the affair gets found out, all hell breaks loose, and an amicable separation/divorce becomes extremely unlikely. I was fortunate and was never exposed, and my STBXW and I are going through an amicable separation. 

Just my $0.02. Any time the topic comes up in here (as it often does), I can't express strongly enough that the right thing to do is the ONLY thing to do. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> sorry to burst your bubble but my wife had an affair when my marriage wasn't on the rocks, maybe a touch blah, but by no means in any trouble. While I can't say for sure, I do believe that if she had come to me before cheating to work on us I think we could have made the marriage as strong as it is now without that stupid and damaging decision that she made. She damn near killed us.
> 
> while having a strong marriage and good boundaries certainly can minimize the risk of a partner cheating, there is no such thing as affair proofing imo.


Thank you for writing this. While I believe we are in the minority, sometimes affairs blindside good spouses that were already putting in a reasonable amount of effort into their marriage, and there are no warning signs. 

My first husband cheated six months into the marriage, when we were still genuinely "in love" and certainly having a lot of sex. He was, I'll admit, very attractive. A neighbor came on to him and that was all it took. I had no warning, and no opportunity to avert the disaster. I can hardly convey what a blow it was. I was young though, and idealistic. I thought it was a one-time slip. Later, I came to regret that optimism a great deal.

Now well into my second (happy) marriage, when the topic of cheating comes up at home, my spouse always says, "If things were that bad, I'd have filed for divorce already," or "I'd leave before I'd cheat." It's reassuring. He gets it...an unhappy marriage would be OUR problem. Not something for one person to unilaterally (and sneakily) "solve" on their own. 

Cheating signs your spouse up for a pretty horrible nightmare they did NOT consent to. At least be upfront, and tell them honestly, "This is not working for me. I will either need to cheat or leave you. Which would you prefer I do?"


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

murphy5 said:


> what about the third option, an open marriage. I think stats say 5% of couples do that.


Open marriages are a BAD deal for dudes. Any woman can have a dude within 20 minutes of entering a bar. Only a dude looking like Channing Tatum could possibly hold even with a woman. A MFM or even a quartet is easy for a woman, she could have have them all the time. Fat chance for most guys getting a FMF even once.

I'm not into sloppy seconds either. I really do enjoy kissing my wife and going down on her. I don't want to be thinking about how much OM spunk is in either when I'm doing it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jj123456 said:


> I'm trying to work out what your saying here. Are you suggesting that if you don't attend to your partner at all times, that it gives them the right to cheat? If so, I totally disagree.


I don't think that he was talking about failing to attend to a spouse's needs _at times_, but rather a sort of long, drawn out (over an extended period of time), and willful neglect of a spouse's needs.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> I would MUCH rather my wife cheat than leave me. She is the love of my life and has been for many many years. I'd prefer she didn't cheat, but if she did, I could forgive her and we could work it out.


Respectfully, until you are a BS, I don't believe you can know how you would respond to infidelity. If you are emotionally bonded to your partner, infidelity causes the soul to bleed. Pile on some family of origin issues most of us have and the WS creates a truly *horrific* emotional reality the BS has to live with for the rest of their life. What was your question again?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Would you rather your partner cheat or leave you? I'm sure most people would prefer neither, but if it came down to this - if they were so unhappy with their sex life, which would you prefer that they do.


You know the saying there are no stupid questions? This proved to be an exception. The only answer is to leave of course. Yes, there is pain in that, but if they cheat and then you leave, you have the pain of both events.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Pretty much by definition people in good relationships don't leave or cheat.


Well, except for the ones who do.

My ex-husband began cheating less than 18 months after our wedding, maybe earlier. He continued for the next 14 or so years. I filed for divorce as soon as I found out about the serial cheating last Summer, after 16 years of marriage. What's crazy is that during our divorce, I saw some emails he exchanged with friends (one of whom was an AP) in which he seemed genuinely hurt and bewildered by my actions. He said that he always though we had a good marriage and that apparently _I _knew there were problems in the marriage before he did. 

Apparently he did not consider cheating on me repeatedly to indicate that there were any problems in the marriage. He, by his own admission, never thought of leaving me. In his mind, cheating had absolutely nothing to do with me or with our marriage. It was just something he did because he wanted to and he could. 

Some people are just broken.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Would you rather your partner cheat or leave you? I'm sure most people would prefer neither, but if it came down to this - if they were so unhappy with their sex life, which would you prefer that they do.


I would rather they leave than cheat. I left my STBXW instead of cheating on her. She had zero desire for me emotionally, intellectually or physically. I used to be really harsh towards cheaters but before leaving her I told her I now understand why SOME (please pay attention to that qualifier as I do realize that not all situations are the same) people cheat. They feel like it's the only choice they have. Many people on this board are dismissive of that reason, however to be this way only ignore the issue in the marriage that pushed the other partner away. Sure it's selfish to cheat but it's also selfish to be the person that pushed the other to think that was their only option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I would rather they leave than cheat. I left my STBXW instead of cheating on her. She had zero desire for me emotionally, intellectually or physically. I used to be really harsh towards cheaters but before leaving her I told her I now understand why SOME (please pay attention to that qualifier as I do realize that not all situations are the same) people cheat. They feel like it's the only choice they have. Many people on this board are dismissive of that reason, however to be this way only ignore the issue in the marriage that pushed the other partner away. Sure it's selfish to cheat but it's also selfish to be the person that pushed the other to think that was their only option.


I've read through your thread. You have my respect, sir.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Acoa said:


> You know the saying there are no stupid questions? This proved to be an exception.


Ouch


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I can't speak for others. My sex life was good. My wife could not have an orgasim with the XOM. At first when she told me this I thought it was BS, but having listened to the recording of her last sexual encounter with the XOM she did not have an orgasim, and they had sex three times.

So my wife's complaint was not the lack of sex nor the lack of good sex. OUr sex life had nothing to do with her affairs.

In 2010 when she started this nonsense our marriage was good.

If you look at some of the data (I am a counselor), you will find that there are folks who have affairs and will state that their marriage was good or even great and they still have an affair.

Two of my Army buddies had wives that had low sex drives. One had an affair and the other did not have an affair but filed for divorse because of his wife's low sex drive.

Sex is not the only reason folks have affairs. 

If I had the choice, I would have rather that my wife left me instead of having her affairs. But, for her that was not an option, she did not want to leave me. Her selfishness was a hugh factor and she wanted "fun and excitement" with someone else.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Jung_admirer
You may be right that I won't know how I feel until it happens. I think there is a significant chance my wife cheated during some of our bad times years ago. I never found out, don't feel the need to. I think that my not needing to find out suggests that I wouldn't mind that much if it happened - but I don't know. 




Jung_admirer said:


> Respectfully, until you are a BS, I don't believe you can know how you would respond to infidelity. If you are emotionally bonded to your partner, infidelity causes the soul to bleed. Pile on some family of origin issues most of us have and the WS creates a truly *horrific* emotional reality the BS has to live with for the rest of their life. What was your question again?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Rowan 
*I* would have considered there to be problems BECAUSE he cheated. In this case HE was the problem. I guess I didn't make myself clear about "problems", I was including the cheater as the "problem". 



Rowan said:


> Well, except for the ones who do.
> 
> My ex-husband began cheating less than 18 months after our wedding, maybe earlier. He continued for the next 14 or so years. I filed for divorce as soon as I found out about the serial cheating last Summer, after 16 years of marriage. What's crazy is that during our divorce, I saw some emails he exchanged with friends (one of whom was an AP) in which he seemed genuinely hurt and bewildered by my actions. He said that he always though we had a good marriage and that apparently _I _knew there were problems in the marriage before he did.
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Acoa
Be nice:nono:

I've told you how I feel about it, and said that I thought I was unusual. It seems that I am quite unusual, since none of the other posters feel the same way. 

Human emotions can be difficult to understand. 



Acoa said:


> You know the saying there are no stupid questions? This proved to be an exception. The only answer is to leave of course. Yes, there is pain in that, but if they cheat and then you leave, you have the pain of both events.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

richardsharp-

I can understand where your mindset is coming from... Cheating/open marriage/ whatever its called may seem like a better option at first. Why break up the family over sex. For many people, sex is just sex. Single people have meaningless sex all the time. 

Even if the bs is fine with the cheating spouse, there is that risk that the cheater will fall for their AP and leave anyway...

What many have said here is that the end result is D... If that is the final destination, why not just take the short cut, the path if least resistance, and go straight to divorce court. Why prolong the agony...

My wife gave me permission to cheat...an open marriage, so I can have a fling or two if I want. She has no sex drive and just doesn't care all that much...It seems like a perfect situation for me...right?

After several months into this arrangement, I am setting myself up be hurt and hurt others in the process...i have met some amazing women. I am getting close to some... I am not after a fling though... I know the end result will be divorce... As much as I want to pretend an affair or having a mistress will be enough to keep my marriage intact, I am just kidding myself...


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Acoa
> 
> Be nice:nono:
> 
> ...



Ok ok. Maybe it's the way you asked the question. Just struck a nerve. Didn't mean to offend But I assumed the spouse was using the affair as an exit to the marriage. 

Based on your earlier reply, I think the question should be rephrased, would you rather your spouse have had an affair and it was a wake up call that you both had work to do to save the relationship, or that they just left without having an affair.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Leave.

Weightlifter. You no longer meet my needs. I am divorcing you. Here are the papers. You are hereby from this moment a free man.

Beats having to live my standard 007 instruction set any day of the week.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Trickster said:


> richardsharp-
> 
> I can understand where your mindset is coming from... Cheating/open marriage/ whatever its called may seem like a better option at first. Why break up the family over sex. For many people, sex is just sex. Single people have meaningless sex all the time.
> 
> ...


Many men love the emotional connection to the woman they just dumped their load into. This is how they connect mentally.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Trickster
I think that is quite insightful.
People may think that what they want is sex, but sex, intimacy and love are deeply tangled together for most. Very few people are happy with casual sex on the side. 

I have seen two "open" relationships fail badly because what people thought was casual sex turned into much more, causing all sorts of problems for the original relationship. 







Trickster said:


> richardsharp-
> 
> I can understand where your mindset is coming from... Cheating/open marriage/ whatever its called may seem like a better option at first. Why break up the family over sex. For many people, sex is just sex. Single people have meaningless sex all the time.
> 
> ...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Leaving is ALWAYS the better choice.

Betrayal is the lowest and most despicable act one person can do to another.

And if the 'love of my life' could do this to me, it would be clear evidence in my book that that 'highway of love' I pictured as connecting us was really a one way street and she did not give a f*ck about me, no matter how I feel about her.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> They feel like it's the only choice they have.


Doesn't matter what they FEEL like, the FACT is that they DO have a choice. A choice that the BS doesn't get to have.

Not facing up to problems within a marriage and dealing with them in an appropriate way is a cowardly and dismissive act.

The cheater is then, as well as being a thief, a liar and a cheat, also an unthinking coward.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

In the end, I was a paycheck and she was hoping for an upgraded income level. I would have preferred for my XWW to have left. That would not have exposed me, without my consent or knowledge, to the risk of stds. She had no right to gamble with my physical health.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Leave. Can’t find the right words, but people are regularly murdered for infidelity because of how nasty it is for the betrayed. Not saying that is likely to happen, just saying it is enough of an emotional trauma that it crosses every betrayed persons mind and you have to talk yourself out of it. 

Leaving for a marriage issues isn’t as harsh of a blow. The one being divorced usually knows about that. They’ve had time to think about it. They know it is a problem for you. Infidelity is nothing like that; it is behind the curtains and hidden. So it’s opening the door one day and getting a shotgun blast leaving you first trying to figure out wtf happened, followed by why did this happen…


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

richardsharp-

If you though you wife had an AP, would you want to know the truth or are you the " blue pill" kind of man?


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> My wife's sexual life is my responsibility. If I am able to tend to it but simply have refused over a long period of time, I have ceased to be her husband around the same time I decided to quit attending to her sexual needs. As I would have already left the marriage, her "leaving" would only be formalizing that which I had already done. As I would have long ago abandoned responsibility for her sexual care, what she did with her vagina would not be any of my business. No victim, no crime. If I abandon property, it's none of my business what someone else does with it. If I refuse to do my job, my boss has no choice but to give my duties to another.


Ridiculous.

A marriage is not defined by the sexual maintenance of ones spouse.

You cannot go off and redefine words.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Leave.

The pain of being cheated on in a marriage is one that many will relive the rest of their lives and that can never be healed.


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## FisharnEked (Jul 16, 2014)

Cheat or Leave???

What about the third option- Swing...


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> [...]
> 
> Human emotions can be difficult to understand.


My God!? Is that you Spock?? 


I would rather he left me than cheated. If he left me I'd be sad and in time heal and move on without the added burden of infidelity. 

And if he were my soul mate wouldn't that negate his need to cheat? Surely a soul mate understands me and why I may not be as sexual as he is at a given time(s) or not feeling "it" due to some reason other than a lack of love or commitment.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Gosh I'd have much preferred she up and left. 

In that scenario things are clear. When they cheat and beg forgiveness it muddies the waters. 

It's easy to say leave. But when there's kids, bills, houses and cars and whatever else it makes you second guess leaving. 

Leaving means starting over, child support, a lowered quality of life, visitation rights and then restarting with a new person who might cheat at some point anyway. 

Now when the wayward just ups and leave, all those back and forth mental gymnastics are avoided. The choice is made and it's far easier to see a clear path. There is no second guessing and no doubt in that case.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Pbear
> OK, some of this is my trying to create a "ruckus" :FIREdevil:
> 
> But it is also a very serious question. I've heard many people say that someone should leave rather than cheat. This surprises me. I would MUCH rather my wife cheat than leave me. She is the love of my life and has been for many many years. I'd prefer she didn't cheat, but if she did, I could forgive her and we could work it out.
> ...


I suggest to you that being a betrayed spouse is a hypothetical to you. As such, even if you've thought a fair bit about it, you don't know what you would do. You don't know how it feels. You haven't the faintest clue how far reaching and damaging the effects are.

I think you are dead wrong in your comparison. If you get punched, it might hurt for a few minutes, but you still hold the same world view. You know what's true still, what you can trust. You don't go back and re examine everything, wondering what was true and what wasn't. It doesn't colour very perception and experience moving on. I'd take some physical violence any day, and I would leave too.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Its obvious isn't it 

You leave clearly

A few months 'in' to when my stbxw and I fell in love 17 years ago (separated April 2012)

We "agreed" 

"should one of us irreparably fall out of love with the other or want to be with somebody else - *then we finish FINISH*. No cheating on the other and tearing them to pieces especially should kids be involved. We finish and although that will obviously hurt it's not even an argument as to what is the best thing to do " ?? 

"Agreed" ?

"Of course, I could never hurt you in that way and I would hope you me either"


...............mmm :scratchhead::sleeping:



:rofl:


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Trickster
No, I'm just (apparently) very unusual in that fidelity isn't all that important to me. Its not that I don't care, its that I don't care all that much. 


I can see from this discussion that I'm in the extreme minority. 




Trickster said:


> richardsharp-
> 
> If you though you wife had an AP, would you want to know the truth or are you the " blue pill" kind of man?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon Trickster
> No, I'm just (apparently) very unusual in that fidelity isn't all that important to me. Its not that I don't care, its that I don't care all that much.
> 
> 
> I can see from this discussion that I'm in the extreme minority.


Good morning Richardsharpe,

I find it a bit odd that you don't care all that much about fidelity, but yet you have started a thread in the infidelity section and have commented many times on other threads within the Coping with Infidelty section.

You must be very dedicated to topics you are actually passionate about.

I wish you and your spouse continued success in your marriage.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I wish I read this debate in the early stages after our DDay.

My wife actually asked me this very question in the aftermath of her EA. She said, "what would you rather I had done"? Now, this is qualified by the fact that she was very communicative with me BEFORE she cheated - she gave me lots of chances to step up my game with her before she chose to cheat. Like, for years.

At that time, I really had no answer. She then followed up with, "Would you rather I just divorced you?" And let me tell you, when you really want to reconcile it is VERY difficult to answer yes to this question, especially mere weeks after DDay when your wife is still torn.

Years later, yes, I did say that telling me she wants a divorce, or taking the beginning steps would have been preferable, and a better way to administer a final wake up call. It would have been the more "correct" thing to do. Cheating is never justified.

When I said this to her, she scoffed, almost like she was upset I called a bluff. I think she was upset that I actually had a better answer.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think an automatic divorce in your case, Gabriel, could've been very helpful. It would've forced both of you to look at your own issues, and how you could work better to resolve them.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening murphy5
> For some couples that is an excellent solution. Unfortunately many people find the concept so offensive that many people are afraid to even suggest it.


More offensive than cheating on her??? At least you are being open, honest, giving her a veto on who you want to bring in....

I understand that 95% can not do it, and that maybe half that number would be abhorred to even suggest it. BUT, it is morally better than lying and cheating.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

jld said:


> I think an automatic divorce in your case, Gabriel, could've been very helpful. It would've forced both of you to look at your own issues, and how you could work better to resolve them.


I don't think automatic is the right word. I think the best case would have been for her to make an appt with an attorney, start discussing separation. And all the while saying that I have the power to stop her.

That would have been the most effective way to wake me up, but without inflicting the gutting pain of infidelity.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon PhillyGuy
You make a good point, but my interest in infidelity is somewhat academic - the serious issues I've had in my marriage are of a very different nature - though infidelity might have happened.

I find how society views infidelity as very interesting - the great majority of people completely condemn it, many think that violence and even murder is understandable in response. Yet it is legal in most of the western world. People will stay with spouses who beat them, but would leave if their spouse cheated. 

This seems to be a very basic human emotion - but it is one that I simply don't have. I'm not very abnormal in other ways, so I'm interested in understanding why my thinking is so different on this, and if anyone else is like me - the answer seems to be "no". 




PhillyGuy13 said:


> Good morning Richardsharpe,
> 
> I find it a bit odd that you don't care all that much about fidelity, but yet you have started a thread in the infidelity section and have commented many times on other threads within the Coping with Infidelty section.
> 
> ...


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Would you rather your partner cheat or leave you? I'm sure most people would prefer neither, but if it came down to this - if they were so unhappy with their sex life, which would you prefer that they do.


good question. If i refused sex with said partner, I would consider a mutual agreement to have an open marriage. 

Cheating is typically bad, so I realize I gave a half answer. Throw kids into the mix and I bet you'll get more cheat votes.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> This seems to be a very basic human emotion - but it is one that I simply don't have. I'm not very abnormal in other ways, so I'm interested in understanding why my thinking is so different on this, and if anyone else is like me - the answer seems to be "no".


A cheating partner is bad enough. A cheating spouse adds another dimension.

I tend to believe that most people take their marriage vows as a commitment. Not necessarily to be together forever, but to at least be faithful while they are.

Perhaps you're one that doesn't respect marriage vows so much. I wonder if your spouse feels the same way.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> I guess I'm unusual in that to me cheating is bad, but not *B*A*D*. Not like physical violence (which to me is a "leave and don't look back" situation).
> 
> So I really am trying to find out if most people find it so bad that they would rather have their lifetime partner leave than cheat.


First of all, it's not the cheating (at least to me) it's the accompanying lying. Lying to and hurting your avowed life partner, whom you are supposed to respect and protect from harm, is emotional violence. Personality damage. It damages their self-esteem (I must not be worthy of respect, I'm stupid because I didn't realize what was going on), ability to trust (how can I trust ANYONE if I can't even trust my spouse) and judgment (if I was wrong about my spouse I am probably wrong about other things) and leaves lingering psychological damage.

I think it's much worse than simple physical violence.

But the type of person who cheats is a ultimately a coward and that's what they do because they cannot face their spouse and leave.

In my situation, my marriage had some sexual issues, but overall I thought we had a good equilibrium and were happy. Turns out, my ex differed on that opinion but never communicated it clearly to me, and never listened to me when I communicated back. Then we had kids and the sexual issues became bigger. Eventually, my spouse found some action on the side and figured that this tidied up all the problems nicely. It took me a year to figure it out, and then I was told the marriage hadn't been happy for years. The thing is, my ex would never have left without something to fall back on. I was better than nothing, which was the alternative until the affair. But honestly, I would have been better off being left years beforehand, before the kids even. But at that point, my ex had no guarantee of finding anyone else, so there was no incentive to leave.

I guess what I'm saying is that for an unhappy spouse, the choice isn't between leaving or cheating. Even if situation A isn't all they dreamed of, no one wants to leave unless they know plan B is better for them. And they can't determine that without cheating first.

People are inherently selfish, I find. The mindset that it's better to be in a bad relationship than no relationship is pretty common, so nobody leaves the bad relationship without a good relationship to fall back on. Never mind the feelings of the partner in the bad relationship! Those are irrelevant.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

The question - to cheat or leave is a false dichotomy.

This is akin to the scene in that movie where the abusive dad sits his son down at the table and makes him chose whether to be beaten with a stick, a brick, or a pipe.

You can choose to cheat or not to cheat.

You can choose to leave or not to leave.

Making the person you are abusing choose in an attempt to make them complicit and offset your guilt is just a controlling head trip.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

marduk said:


> The question - to cheat or leave is a false dichotomy.
> 
> This is akin to the scene in that movie where the abusive dad sits his son down at the table and makes him chose whether to be beaten with a stick, a brick, or a pipe.
> 
> ...


Yes spot on 

They'll cheat on you if your damned and they'll cheat on you if you're not damned 

Either way - you're damned!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Leaving is really the only reasonable option. 

I guess I have to ask, your rationale only seems to be the "sex act" of cheating and not all the lies, broken trust issues, the utter deceit that plays into cheating. Often the real damage of affairs is not because of the sex at all and people don’t cheat because sex at home isn’t good. For some that may be the excuse but for many it was the “thrill” of it all. 

People cheat in good relationships all the time, people leave good relationships too. Some think they will find better and leave. They chase the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 

I think once you would be actually confronted with the issue that very basic human emotion you claim to not have would rear up pretty quick and I truly hope you never find out.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Would you rather your partner cheat or leave you? I'm sure most people would prefer neither, but if it came down to this - if they were so unhappy with their sex life, which would you prefer that they do.


I would prefer they talk about it openly with me so that we could decide the fate of the relationship together.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening murphy5
> For some couples that is an excellent solution. Unfortunately many people find the concept so offensive that many people are afraid to even suggest it.


open marriage, as despicable as it would have been to me had my ex W suggested it, would have been 100x less hurtful than betrayal.

The cheating was bad. The leaving was worse. The two-punch combo was deadly, killed all trust permanently. I still have to co-parent my child with a woman that I will NEVER trust in my life, that is the lingering [email protected] that a BS will forever have to contend with.

Correction: the extra-marital sex with an OM was bad, the deception was worse, the rejection was brutal - a two-punch combined with a very hard kick to the gut when I was down.


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## Cleaver Brooks (Jan 19, 2014)

Just leave. Leaving hurts your partner but being betrayed is SOOOO much worse!!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> Leaving is ALWAYS the better choice.
> 
> Betrayal is the lowest and most despicable act one person can do to another.
> 
> And if the 'love of my life' could do this to me, *it would be clear evidence in my book that that 'highway of love' I pictured as connecting us was really a one way street and she did not give a f*ck about me, no matter how I feel about her*.


I can verify that statement.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon PhillyGuy
> You make a good point, but my interest in infidelity is somewhat academic - the serious issues I've had in my marriage are of a very different nature - though infidelity might have happened.
> 
> I find how society views infidelity as very interesting - the great majority of people completely condemn it, many think that violence and even murder is understandable in response. Yet it is legal in most of the western world. People will stay with spouses who beat them, but would leave if their spouse cheated.
> ...


If you are content/happy with a wider view of pair-bond relationship, and exploring a life with a number of partners, or even having casual sex, that is perfectly fine. Just don't swear a vow to forsake all others, and do not lie and deceive someone just to take sexual advantage of them.

When there is implicit and mutual trust with another person, and a level of intimacy that can only exist with such an exclusive relationship partner, then betraying that trust is the worst thing you can do to them, regardless of your official status to them.


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