# Hello, I'm new



## *Deidre*

Just joined this site, and glad I found it. I'm recently engaged, and getting married in October of this year. I've received some good advice from friends and my family, but many of my friends are unhappy in their marriages (they have only been married a few years, most of them) or they are separated/getting a divorce. My friends' ages range from late 20's to early 30's. I don't judge why they are divorcing or unhappy, but it scares me a bit because I don't want my marriage to end up as another divorce stat. I'm pretty easy going, and so is my fiance. If you have any advice, I'd appreciate hearing it.


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## Marc878

Get two copies of His Needs, Her Needs and read it together. Best out there on marriage.

I'd also pick up a copy of Not Just Friends.

A good marriage takes work they just don't happen. And it takes TWO!!!!!

Best wishes


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## *Deidre*

Marc878 said:


> Get two copies of His Needs, Her Needs and read it together. Best out there on marriage.
> 
> I'd also pick up a copy of Not Just Friends.
> 
> A good marriage takes work they just don't happen. And it takes TWO!!!!!
> 
> Best wishes


Thank you so much, I will look for these titles!! It does take two, I know...my parents keep telling me this.  I hope I make a good wife!


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## Marc878

Both of you should sit down and discuss boundaries and transparency as well.

In my home all passwords are know to both for all phones, email, social media, etc.

Neither of us have close personal friends of the opposite sex that we have outings with alone.

Once you've read enough you'll discover 80% of affairs start with a friendship. 

Hence, something may not happen in these instances but if you don't go there they can't happen.

Beware of online media. To put it bluntly Facebook is called Fvckbook for a reason.

If you want a good marriage that lasts start off with a good sound foundation.

Ignore the basics and you'll be posting in the infidelity/divorce forums trying to fix your issues.


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## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> Thank you so much, I will look for these titles!! It does take two, I know...my parents keep telling me this.  I hope I make a good wife!


I'm sure you will. Always make some time to be together. Establish date nights and always keep them. Doesn't have to be much. Dinner and a movie, lunch, etc. 

Don't ignore time for just the two of you. It bonds and keeps you together so you'll never drift apart. It's a busy world but there is always time if you make it part of your ritual.


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## *Deidre*

Marc878 said:


> Both of you should sit down and discuss boundaries and transparency as well.
> 
> In my home all passwords are know to both for all phones, email, social media, etc.
> 
> Neither of us have close personal friends of the opposite sex that we have outings with alone.
> 
> Once you've read enough you'll discover 80% of affairs start with a friendship.
> 
> Hence, something may not happen in these instances but if you don't go there they can't happen.
> 
> Beware of online media. To put it bluntly Facebook is called Fvckbook for a reason.
> 
> If you want a good marriage that lasts start off with a good sound foundation.
> 
> Ignore the basics and you'll be posting in the infidelity/divorce forums trying to fix your issues.


I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me. Understand the reasoning, but that would be my concern. 

Do you do this in your own relationship? haha I should ask my friends to see if they do this, too.


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## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me. Understand the reasoning, but that would be my concern.
> 
> Do you do this in your own relationship? haha I should ask my friends to see if they do this, too.


Yes. We have nothing to hide. The biggest thing in marriage besides love is trust. I use her cell and she uses mine whenever. Passwords are in a notebook except for work related pc's but if she wanted to see that too, no problem.


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## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me. Understand the reasoning, but that would be my concern.
> 
> Do you do this in your own relationship? haha I should ask my friends to see if they do this, too.


Simple you give him yours he gives you his. It's a trade :grin2:


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## Marc878

Your marriage will be what you both want it to be.

Is there a fits all? No. 

Everyone's different. We married very young. We've been thru a huge amount of time, issues, etc.

Our ways were developed over time by trial and error. 

It took me awhile to learn how to treat a woman. I'm very alpha and had to learn a huge amount to become a good husband. For women this comes somewhat natural on how to treat a husband I think. 

As you will find men in general are kinda dumb on the special little everyday things that mean a lot to women. 

However, we must be doing something right because in June we celebrate our 41st anniversary.

The thing is communication. Talk about your likes and dislikes, issues, etc. 

Men are pretty much horrible at this but I learned. Women for the most part know this instinctively. You need to understand this.

Sometimes the best way to get his attention will be a 2x4 across the forehead. >. 

Good luck


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## JohnA

I went though a pre-caan program though my church. It was excellent but should have been much longer in duration. Funny thing if they discussed theology for no more then a tiny bit. It was all about real problems and real solutions, discovering pitfalls, avoiding them and hidden assumptions. 

Bottomline get marriage counseling now, in a big way. Learn now about the harm each of you can do without realizing it. Understand what adultery can do to each other. It might stop you from making the biggest mistake of your lives. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/306482-whats-worst-thing-about-infidelity.html

Finally you need to learn to swing a 2x4, bluntness in everyday life is a must for a woman when dealing with a husband. Clear boundaries are a must. Remember healthy boundaries are those actions we take to protect and nourish that we hold dear. So no blows to the head, no blows to the groin, just body blows.


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## JohnA

Oh bye the way I still agree with a co-worker of my brothers who when asked why in the world he would get married for the fourth time replied: marriage is the greatest institution invented by man, and he was not going to stop trying till he got it right. 

Also add 5 Love Languages to your list. Home | The 5 Love Languages® | Improving Millions of Relationships? One Language at a Time.


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## *Deidre*

Marc878 said:


> Your marriage will be what you both want it to be.
> 
> Is there a fits all? No.
> 
> Everyone's different. We married very young. We've been thru a huge amount of time, issues, etc.
> 
> Our ways were developed over time by trial and error.
> 
> It took me awhile to learn how to treat a woman. I'm very alpha and had to learn a huge amount to become a good husband. For women this comes somewhat natural on how to treat a husband I think.
> 
> As you will find men in general are kinda dumb on the special little everyday things that mean a lot to women.
> 
> However, we must be doing something right because in June we celebrate our 41st anniversary.
> 
> The thing is communication. Talk about your likes and dislikes, issues, etc.
> 
> Men are pretty much horrible at this but I learned. Women for the most part know this instinctively. You need to understand this.
> 
> Sometimes the best way to get his attention will be a 2x4 across the forehead. >.
> 
> Good luck


 haha Appreciate your advice!!  

I can't see the password thing, honestly. In my eyes, and his ...we are both very much our own people, and respect one another's space. I think if you have to obtain passwords, it sends a message of distrust. If I can't trust my fiance to do the right thing, because he wants to, not because he is obligated to or is worried I might 'find out,' then the relationship is already over. This is just my personal view, everyone is different. 

We don't want to be one another's parent, or create an environment that breeds insecurity. If someone wants to cheat, they will find a way, and if either of us does, we already have said...it's a deal breaker for us both. 



JohnA said:


> I went though a pre-caan program though my church. It was excellent but should have been much longer in duration. Funny thing if they discussed theology for no more then a tiny bit. It was all about real problems and real solutions, discovering pitfalls, avoiding them and hidden assumptions.
> 
> Bottomline get marriage counseling now, in a big way. Learn now about the harm each of you can do without realizing it. Understand what adultery can do to each other. It might stop you from making the biggest mistake of your lives. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/306482-whats-worst-thing-about-infidelity.html
> 
> Finally you need to learn to swing a 2x4, bluntness in everyday life is a must for a woman when dealing with a husband. Clear boundaries are a must. Remember healthy boundaries are those actions we take to protect and nourish that we hold dear. So no blows to the head, no blows to the groin, just body blows.


Yes, we are thinking of attending a (pre)marriage workshop for new couples at a local church. I left the faith for a while, and was an atheist, and recently came back to Christianity, and think it would be a great thing for us to attend.

Thank you for your thoughts here today!


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## ConanHub

Welcome. Read around. There are numerous threads on pretty much every topic. Try not to become paranoid but remember to never take your partner for granted and putting work into your marriage can eliminate almost every threat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA

The thing about some church programs is they can be somewhat like saying drink clean water without ever telling you why or how. For example it is fine to say God commands us to love each other, Jesus died for our sins so don't lie, don't commit adultery, etc and never getting around to the why or how. Good theology lives and breaths in the gutter on mainstreet and main. The further it moves away from there the less value it holds. 

I provide a link on what adultery does to a person. That is why adultery is a mortal sin in God's eyes. Not because on a whim some remote, unknowable, inhuman being says so. Atheist or not the bible is one of the oldest historic in depth profile of human experience and it's attempt to create a better reality it was born into. Before attending a faith base program understand it's thrust and viewpoint. Also do not assume those who teach from a faith base perspective actually teaching what there faith holds to be true. 

For example the catholic church issued a document in the early sixties that stated: 

- A marriage is a partnership between absolute equals.

- It is up to each couple to define the roles played in the marriage. There are no gender roles in marriage except for basic reproductive roles. 

- the marriage must be allowed to evolve and both partners must be committed to mutual self growth. 

- a parents responsibility to a child is absolute.


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## JohnA

By the way while those four points are not well known the final one is, a marriage must be open to the creation of life and as such abortion is rejected as a sin. I get why a lot of people don't agree with this point, especially in light of point number four. But don't throw away the baby with the bath water.


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## Justinian

Marc878 said:


> However, we must be doing something right because in June we celebrate our 41st anniversary.
> 
> The thing is communication. Talk about your likes and dislikes, issues, etc.


Coming up on #41 myself, and I agree, good communication is the key. Make sure it improves over the years instead of going the other way.


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## Justinian

*Deidre* said:


> I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him.


We share all passwords, but it's more about convenience than transparency or trust.

That said, I never log onto any of my wife's devices without asking first (usually only for maintenance), and she never logs on to mine at all, that I know of. We have always respected each other's privacy.

My wife leaves her purse laying around, but I won't go into it for any reason without asking first. I wish she felt the same about my wallet, which she seems to view as her own personal ATM.


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## TBT

Welcome to TAM Deidre. The password sharing theme always seems to come up on here,especially in forums like CWI and Reconciliation. Just out of curiosity what constitutes privacy to you that you feel no need to share passwords with your future husband and vice versa? I fully understand that there is a need for a person's own space and identity,as that was true in my time and way before the technology available today. In real life we can take our cues and make sense/or not of things because we are observers and present in it. Today though,how much time do we spend distracted from real life because of the widespread use of electronics and social media and how much influence does it have on us or the ones we care about? Should it matter?

Again,welcome.


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## Blossom Leigh

I think one of the favorite things I have learned in my marriage is to look for his style of loving and resist stuffing it into the box of preconceived expectations. Your ideas of how he is going to love is limited. When you open your mind to his creativity, you will discover nuances unique to him.


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## *Deidre*

TBT said:


> Welcome to TAM Deidre. The password sharing theme always seems to come up on here,especially in forums like CWI and Reconciliation. Just out of curiosity what constitutes privacy to you that you feel no need to share passwords with your future husband and vice versa? I fully understand that there is a need for a person's own space and identity,as that was true in my time and way before the technology available today. In real life we can take our cues and make sense/or not of things because we are observers and present in it. Today though,how much time do we spend distracted from real life because of the widespread use of electronics and social media and how much influence does it have on us or the ones we care about? Should it matter?
> 
> Again,welcome.


Thank you for the welcome! 

I think what bothers me about asking for his passwords and sharing mine, is that it makes me feel like we are parenting one another...and that we feel a sense of ownership over one another. That's just not me. Even if he cheated, I wouldn't want him anymore. I'm not competing with other women for my future husband's attention, if he someday ends up cheating, we are done. And cheating is a deal breaker for him, too. I just can't imagine snooping on his phone and social media accounts looking to see if he is carrying on with other women. I don't want to be in a relationship that lacks trust like that. 



Blossom Leigh said:


> I think one of the favorite things I have learned in my marriage is to look for his style of loving and resist stuffing it into the box of preconceived expectations. Your ideas of how he is going to love is limited. When you open your mind to his creativity, you will discover nuances unique to him.


This is true, and thank you. 

I appreciate everyone's welcome here!


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## Apexmale

*Deidre* said:


> Thank you for the welcome!
> 
> I think what bothers me about asking for his passwords and sharing mine, is that it makes me feel like we are parenting one another...and that we feel a sense of ownership over one another. That's just not me. Even if he cheated, I wouldn't want him anymore. I'm not competing with other women for my future husband's attention, if he someday ends up cheating, we are done. And cheating is a deal breaker for him, too. I just can't imagine snooping on his phone and social media accounts looking to see if he is carrying on with other women. I don't want to be in a relationship that lacks trust like that.
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, and thank you.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's welcome here!


Yea, my wife and I do not seek out passwords and we do not feel the need to dig around each other's cell phones. We look more at long term effects than what we'd get seeking instant gratification. We just simply refuse to "babysit" one another. 

Feeling that you need to "parent" your spouse "just in case" has just got to be an absolute terrible way to live in marriage. 

Marriage is about companionship, not ownership.








Sent from Above


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## ABHale

*Deidre* said:


> I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me. Understand the reasoning, but that would be my concern.
> 
> Do you do this in your own relationship? haha I should ask my friends to see if they do this, too.


Give him your passwords if you want with out asking for his. When he asks about it just tell him you have nothing to hide, ect and go from there. He will offer his if he has nothing to hide.


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## ABHale

Sorry, but check out Hurt dudes post. Some problems start before the marriage.


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## ABHale

I don't think anyone started out looking into their SO's things. It starts when they see a change in the SO and when you try and see if you can help, SO is like its nothing don't worry about it. That's when the looking into things start.


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## ABHale

And yes, marriages can work with out a hitch. I hope you have a wonderful marriage with the one you love. Never stop working at it. Its not always a cheating spouse that kills a marriage. Never take one another for granted, the one that does will regret it.


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## *Deidre*

ABHale said:


> Give him your passwords if you want with out asking for his. When he asks about it just tell him you have nothing to hide, ect and go from there. He will offer his if he has nothing to hide.


I don’t want his passwords. Lol My mind just doesn’t go there. If you need to ‘check up on’ your SO and don’t trust him/her at their word…your relationship is unhealthy. Healthy relationships have trust. Natural trust. I want my fiancé to do the right things, out of love and respect for me. Not because he knows that at any moment, I could check up on him. Frankly, if anyone here thinks that knowing people’s passwords and looking at their phones is a key to a faithful relationship…it’s not. If anything, a true cheater will find a way to do it, without you knowing about it. If you guys want to do that in your relationships, that’s your choice…it’s just not me.


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## GusPolinski

@*Deidre*, how would you define "natural trust"?

Would you say that it's nothing more than a lack of distrust?


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## MRR

*Deidre* said:


> I don’t want his passwords. Lol My mind just doesn’t go there. If you need to ‘check up on’ your SO and don’t trust him/her at their word…your relationship is unhealthy. Healthy relationships have trust. Natural trust. I want my fiancé to do the right things, out of love and respect for me. Not because he knows that at any moment, I could check up on him. Frankly, if anyone here thinks that knowing people’s passwords and looking at their phones is a key to a faithful relationship…it’s not. If anything, a true cheater will find a way to do it, without you knowing about it. If you guys want to do that in your relationships, that’s your choice…it’s just not me.


I am divorced, and found out a few days after I got the ILYBINILWY speech, through online phone records, that my ex had talked to another guy for an hour on the phone the day before our last marriage counseling session. Totally blindsided. She did not have an affair though after I started dating, she did go out on a date with the guy so it was definitely out of line for a married woman. 

Having said that, I do not know if I could ever ask for a partner's passwords, or if I would ever feel comfortable looking on her phone/emails etc. I feel like when I did it I was not even in my right mind. Even when I did do it, and I was right, it felt strange.


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## Steve1000

*Deidre* said:


> I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me.


Whether you two share passwords or not, I recommend that you and him become comfortable to bring up absolutely anything about any topic.


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## brooklynAnn

You should be able to talk about any and everything. And be comfortable asking for things. Because what if you need to access his email or phone.

Everyone in our family have access to every password and everyone's account. It's the way we are, so it was not a problem for our kids to follow the same pattern.

Last I went on my H's phone to look at an email. I asked him if I could forward it to my email, he said why are you asking. You are my wife you can do what you want. I thought I was showing courtesy. But that's our mindset. We respect each other's privacy but have access. 

Like someone on TAM said, in marriage there are no privacy. Expect when using the bathroom.

Might be something for you guys to talk about now @deidre.


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## MRR

Deidre-- I am curious about why you are getting married. I think, some questions I probably did not ask myself before I got married ( and I am guessing some of your friends and/or family didnt either). For instance, I dated her for two years, and it just seemed like time to get married type of thing. I did not consider some important stuff-- which you appear to be. 

-Why are you marrying this person? 

-Do you ever think you would be happier without this person? 

-If you didnt marry this person, and he married someone else (at a later time, after your break up), would you be heart broken or would you be ok/happy for them?

-What sort of issues can you realistically see coming up in the marriage? (in laws, world view, beliefs, religion, or something more ominous-- a certain friend)

-What kind of person was this person before you met? Did he improve himself to keep you? (Looking back, I can see my wife did this, now that we are divorced I can see how she was before we were married and if I had known how she really is I would not have been attracted)


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## Adelais

You might want to add Love Busters by Dr. Willard Harley to your and your husband's reading list. My husband commented that had we read that book at the beginning of our marriage, we could have avoided some hurtful situations. "Independent actions," or doing thing that affect the other spouse and the marriage cause a lot of hurt in marriages, in a lot of different areas of the marriage.

Our pre-marital counseling did not help us at all because it was too generalized. We we were so caught up in being in love that we thought we were perfect for each other. All the books recommended on your thread would have helped us much more had then existed 25 years ago.

I wish you the best in your marriage and in your life!

IMFAR


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## *Deidre*

MRR said:


> I am divorced, and found out a few days after I got the ILYBINILWY speech, through online phone records, that my ex had talked to another guy for an hour on the phone the day before our last marriage counseling session. Totally blindsided. She did not have an affair though after I started dating, she did go out on a date with the guy so it was definitely out of line for a married woman.


 I'm sorry to read this.  But the good news is, you found out and left the relationship. Online phone records are different, those are accessible, and not like rifling through someone's phone looking for info. This is my thing. IF IT GETS TO A POINT IN ONE'S RELATIONSHIP WHERE YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SNOOP THROUGH SOMEONE'S PHONE, BECAUSE YOU SUSPECT THEM OF CHEATING...your relationship is already to an unhealthy point. Even if you find NOTHING incriminating at all...the fact that one might feel the need to do something like that suggests a) the person is insecure b) the marriage isn't healthy, and the person is searching for answers as to why. Sometimes, the answers lie within us, and we need to look in the mirror as to why our relationships are 'failing.' 



> Having said that, I do not know if I could ever ask for a partner's passwords, or if I would ever feel comfortable looking on her phone/emails etc. I feel like when I did it I was not even in my right mind. Even when I did do it, and I was right, it felt strange.


 Exactly...because you feel like at that point, you are in something bad. If I need to turn into a private investigator lol I'm done with the guy, then. I'm not one of those women who hold onto a man's ankles who is effing other women. If my fiance wants to do this, those women are welcome to him. Call it pride...call it whatever, but no man is worth me sacrificing my dignity. And you should tell yourself the same, when it comes to women...no woman should ever cause you to compromise your self worth or values in order to hang onto her. 



Steve1000 said:


> Whether you two share passwords or not, I recommend that you and him become comfortable to bring up absolutely anything about any topic.


We do. We are open books, but we also don't believe in smothering one another. The sign of a healthy relationship to me, is when two people do the rights things for one another, without it being expected. If a person finds themselves in less than that type of a relationship, it's not time to snoop on phones and call a PI to follow them...it's rather time to end it. I don't want to change a man into something he isn't already. If a guy is a colossal jerk, and I discover that he is...I'm done with him. I'm not interested in sitting in a counseling session hoping and praying he becomes something other than the jerk he has shown himself to be. I've been reading some threads on here where spouses are groveling at the feet of their cheating spouses...hoping and praying that they give up effing the mailman/mailwoman...and choose them again. The problem I see with this thinking, is that people need more self respect. No one will respect you, if you don't respect yourself, first. I've learned that the hard way. 



brooklynAnn said:


> You should be able to talk about any and everything. And be comfortable asking for things. Because what if you need to access his email or phone.
> 
> Everyone in our family have access to every password and everyone's account. It's the way we are, so it was not a problem for our kids to follow the same pattern.
> 
> Last I went on my H's phone to look at an email. I asked him if I could forward it to my email, he said why are you asking. You are my wife you can do what you want. I thought I was showing courtesy. But that's our mindset. We respect each other's privacy but have access.
> 
> Like someone on TAM said, in marriage there are no privacy. Expect when using the bathroom.
> 
> Might be something for you guys to talk about now @deidre.


 I think that is great if this dynamic works in your relationship and home. But it seems like babysitting my fiance or something. I can't seem to see it any other way, honestly. lol 

I disagree about the privacy comment, too. Marriage shouldn't cause two people to think they own one another. I can't help but think this will smother a relationship. 



MRR said:


> Deidre-- I am curious about why you are getting married. I think, some questions I probably did not ask myself before I got married ( and I am guessing some of your friends and/or family didnt either). For instance, I dated her for two years, and it just seemed like time to get married type of thing. I did not consider some important stuff-- which you appear to be.
> 
> -Why are you marrying this person?


 We love one another, and trust one another. I don't trust men too often, so to trust a man the way I do him, I feel that when he asked me to marry him, it made sense on a number of levels, but trust being a big one.



> -Do you ever think you would be happier without this person?


 I don't really look for a man to make me happy, honestly. I used to think this way when I was an atheist, but I've returned to faith, and while I want to share my life with my fiance, he doesn't control my happiness. That said, a person can find themselves in a toxic relationship, and be very unhappy...but again, only if you let someone control your happiness. 



> -If you didnt marry this person, and he married someone else (at a later time, after your break up), would you be heart broken or would you be ok/happy for them?


 If we didn't work out, and down the road he married someone else...hmmm...I'd be happy for him, because that is true love. I would be sad if we ended now, because it would be surprising as I think we have an amazing thing going. 



> -What sort of issues can you realistically see coming up in the marriage? (in laws, world view, beliefs, religion, or something more ominous-- a certain friend)


 My avoidance of conflict. I have a hard time expressing when I'm upset, with anyone...not just with him...and tend to cut and run, as it's easier than confronting conflict. I'm getting better. As it relates to him...how we might raise kids together. He has very different ideas than I do about all that, and he is very traditional alpha...and I'm very much attracted to him for this reason, but at times...it can be...off putting. He is working on it. ^_^



> -What kind of person was this person before you met?


 Extraordinarily independent. We both are, but we love being together, it feels effortless when we are together. 



> Did he improve himself to keep you? (Looking back, I can see my wife did this, now that we are divorced I can see how she was before we were married and if I had known how she really is I would not have been attracted)


 To keep me? Can you clarify? 



IMFarAboveRubies said:


> You might want to add Love Busters by Dr. Willard Harley to your and your husband's reading list. My husband commented that had we read that book at the beginning of our marriage, we could have avoided some hurtful situations. "Independent actions," or doing thing that affect the other spouse and the marriage cause a lot of hurt in marriages, in a lot of different areas of the marriage.
> 
> Our pre-marital counseling did not help us at all because it was too generalized. We we were so caught up in being in love that we thought we were perfect for each other. All the books recommended on your thread would have helped us much more had then existed 25 years ago.
> 
> I wish you the best in your marriage and in your life!
> 
> IMFAR


Thank you so much for this, and we are open to suggestions. ''Independent actions''...can you elaborate as to what you mean? Did that occur in your marriage?

We don't expect to never hurt one another, we are human. But, we have laid out our deal breakers, as we both feel that if our quality of life erodes because of the marriage, then that means we need to really assess why we are staying married. We want a healthy marriage, not just to be married.


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## Adelais

*Deidre* said:


> Thank you so much for this, and we are open to suggestions. ''Independent actions''...can you elaborate as to what you mean? Did that occur in your marriage?


Yes, it did, several times.

Independent actions are when one spouse does something significant that impacts both couples, without the 100% agreement of the other spouse.

These examples did not all occur in my marriage, but they can all harm a marriage.

It can involve making plans, taking jobs, financial decisions, decisions about family (like stopping taking birth control without the other spouses knowledge), staying out with friends without the other spouses agreement, etc.


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## *Deidre*

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Yes, it did, several times.
> 
> Independent actions are when one spouse does something significant that impacts both couples, without the 100% agreement of the other spouse.
> 
> These examples did not all occur in my marriage, but they can all harm a marriage.
> 
> It can involve making plans, taking jobs, financial decisions, decisions about family (like stopping taking birth control without the other spouses knowledge), staying out with friends without the other spouses agreement, etc.


I agree with you. It is something I wonder about, if I'm honest, as sometimes, he will make plans for us both (like agrees for us both to attend a party), without asking if I'd be interested. It's not often, but sometimes. I tell him as well after I make plans to see a friend for dinner, without seeing first if he wanted to do something together. These are seemingly minor things now, but I guess they could become big things in a marriage.


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## Adelais

If you get the book Love Busters, it will explain it better, and if you read it with your husband, he will see how making independent decisions that affect you can hurt your marriage over the years.


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## MRR

*Deidre* said:


> To keep me? Can you clarify?


Ok, so my ex, when I met her it was long distance. She had a job where she occasionally worked outside the office-- 'home visits' they were called. 

There were some indications that her, and her best work friends, would schedule these appointments for first thing in the morning and then either not go or be able to basically sleep in. 

In short, she was lazy. But when we got together she didnt do that stuff. I realize now she made a concerted effort to hide this part of herself. When we were going through our divorce, I learned a lot more from HER friends that I didnt really know about her character before we were married. 

Also, I have gone on a few dates with a girl who says her ex had a serious drinking problem, and everyone who knew him before they were married were aware of it, but she didnt really get it until they were married. His friends/family thought that he had 'settled down' so to speak due to more domesticated life, but in reality he had hidden it from her b/c he knew she most likely would not stay with him. 


Thanks for your thoughtfulness in answering here. I know you think it is for you but it is great for others to see how you see yourself and your relationship too.


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## Sun Catcher

Hi Deidre and welcome to TAM!

About the password sharing thing, it isn't to snoop on a spouse. I have never snooped, nor has my husband! Heck if I ask him for something out of my handbag which is in another room he brings me the whole bag or something out of my wallet sitting on the counter he brings me the whole wallet! 

We keep all of our passwords written in a spreadsheet, usernames, passwords, secret questions etc. just for safety and just in case. 

I am a direct deposit kind of girl and my husband hated that and would rather take time when the bill comes in and pay it then, even on line so we compromised after co-mingling accounts and he would 'pay the bills'. Well, while he was hospitalized for a serious condition he had bills to pay and he only used a stand alone computer back then. So I had to get the log in names and passwords and make the payments on my iPad while sitting by his bedside (he was very seriously ill). He also could not get one of the passwords right and that had to be reset and all! I felt lost and a bit frustrated that he could have been unconscious and how would I do this? We decided then and there that we would start writing everything down in a safe place. 

A few months after our ordeal a younger friend of mine husband died, he was not yet 40. Very sudden, clot to the lung and he was gone. What that girl went through trying to figure out his passwords and everything for banks, FB and all was just cruel I thought. Unfortunately, my young friend also found loans taken out for which she had no knowledge. She couldn't get into his account to even to make his car payment. I think, although not sure, it had to go to probate court or something and took weeks and lots of paperwork for her to get access to his assets for herself and their son. Things would have been much easier had she knowledge of his passwords.

Just as a side note, I have 3 sons. The two who share this kind of info have really good relationships and marriage. The one who doesn't is on his 2nd wobbly marriage. 

So you see that password sharing is not just to snoop on a partner and shouldn't be seen that way. It is about trusting your spouse won't abuse the information and that in case of an emergency a spouse will know where to put their hands on crucial passwords. 

This is what I and my husband consider as trusting one another.


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## *Deidre*

Sun Catcher said:


> Hi Deidre and welcome to TAM!
> 
> About the password sharing thing, it isn't to snoop on a spouse. I have never snooped, nor has my husband! Heck if I ask him for something out of my handbag which is in another room he brings me the whole bag or something out of my wallet sitting on the counter he brings me the whole wallet!
> 
> We keep all of our passwords written in a spreadsheet, usernames, passwords, secret questions etc. just for safety and just in case.
> 
> I am a direct deposit kind of girl and my husband hated that and would rather take time when the bill comes in and pay it then, even on line so we compromised after co-mingling accounts and he would 'pay the bills'. Well, while he was hospitalized for a serious condition he had bills to pay and he only used a stand alone computer back then. So I had to get the log in names and passwords and make the payments on my iPad while sitting by his bedside (he was very seriously ill). He also could not get one of the passwords right and that had to be reset and all! I felt lost and a bit frustrated that he could have been unconscious and how would I do this? We decided then and there that we would start writing everything down in a safe place.
> 
> A few months after our ordeal a younger friend of mine husband died, he was not yet 40. Very sudden, clot to the lung and he was gone. What that girl went through trying to figure out his passwords and everything for banks, FB and all was just cruel I thought. Unfortunately, my young friend also found loans taken out for which she had no knowledge. She couldn't get into his account to even to make his car payment. I think, although not sure, it had to go to probate court or something and took weeks and lots of paperwork for her to get access to his assets for herself and their son. Things would have been much easier had she knowledge of his passwords.
> 
> Just as a side note, I have 3 sons. The two who share this kind of info have really good relationships and marriage. The one who doesn't is on his 2nd wobbly marriage.
> 
> So you see that password sharing is not just to snoop on a partner and shouldn't be seen that way. It is about trusting your spouse won't abuse the information and that in case of an emergency a spouse will know where to put their hands on crucial passwords.
> 
> This is what I and my husband consider as trusting one another.


Thank you for the nice welcome! 

Oh, these types of passwords, I can understand. But, why do I need my fiance's personal or work email passwords? Why do I need passwords on his FB account? I find that to be basically telling him...I don't trust you, babe...so, if I have your passwords, then you can't cheat on me.

Just isn't my way. Idk, just feels weird to me.  To be honest, he has female friends and I have male friends and we are all friends with each other, and I don't need to see every text he's sending out, I trust that he doesn't flirt and hit on other women, and it would make me feel suspicious if I had to know his personal passwords to things. It will be funny if some day he asks me for them...I'll be like, have you joined TAM?


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## woundedwarrior

I'm with you on the whole password thing. My wife has her own and I have my own, but we wouldn't hesitate to show each other anything of ours, if asked. Becoming a full time paranoid spy isn't the way to go, you have to fully trust each other.

To me, marriage has always been one basic idea, that if you both strive for this, then you will last a lifetime, and that is DON'T BE SELFISH, put your spouses needs first always. If you both do this, guess what, everyone is very happy.

There is no guarantee that you two will last, but the secret is to believe with all of your heart that it will. IF you don't go into it with the "forever" mindset, then chances are it won't be.

God bless you two and best of luck!!


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## header

*Deidre* said:


> If we didn't work out, and down the road he married someone else...hmmm...I'd be happy for him, because that is true love..


Yeah, that's how most people feel when it actually happens to them.


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## *Deidre*

header said:


> Yeah, that's how most people feel when it actually happens to them.


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## *Deidre*

woundedwarrior said:


> I'm with you on the whole password thing. My wife has her own and I have my own, but we wouldn't hesitate to show each other anything of ours, if asked. Becoming a full time paranoid spy isn't the way to go, you have to fully trust each other.
> 
> To me, marriage has always been one basic idea, that if you both strive for this, then you will last a lifetime, and that is DON'T BE SELFISH, put your spouses needs first always. If you both do this, guess what, everyone is very happy.
> 
> There is no guarantee that you two will last, but the secret is to believe with all of your heart that it will. IF you don't go into it with the "forever" mindset, then chances are it won't be.
> 
> God bless you two and best of luck!!


Thank you for this, so true!! 

Also, something my grandmother told me before she passed away last year, is that you shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of what marriage is 'supposed' to do for you. In other words, if you are not happy from your childhood, your spouse can't 'fix' that. You shouldn't look to your spouse as a rescuer or a white knight, she said...you should look to him as your friend, your lover, your equal partner...but not as something he isn't meant to be. I think that is honestly where many people go wrong ...if you are not happy, it isn't your spouse's job to 'make you happy.' Some of the stories I've read on here so far seem to be looking for a spouse to cure them of whatever ails them, and it's not a fair spot to put your spouse in, my opinion.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
to me, marriage is sort of an acknowledgment of the desire you both already have to spend your lives together, it doesn't really change anything.

To me the most important question for getting married is "are you happy when you are with this person". Don't think about whether you *should* be happy. Whether they are a *good* person. Think about whether or not you are happy when you are with them.


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## arbitrator

*Deidre* said:


> Just joined this site, and glad I found it. I'm recently engaged, and getting married in October of this year. I've received some good advice from friends and my family, but many of my friends are unhappy in their marriages (they have only been married a few years, most of them) or they are separated/getting a divorce. My friends' ages range from late 20's to early 30's. I don't judge why they are divorcing or unhappy, but it scares me a bit because I don't want my marriage to end up as another divorce stat. I'm pretty easy going, and so is my fiance. If you have any advice, I'd appreciate hearing it.


*None of us, collectively, ever want the specter of divorce to occur in your young, impressionable life, or even our very own! But you have the advantage, my dear, because at your reasonably young age, you can read and learn about what a deceptive world that it can be with respect to marriage and to long-term relationships!

Hopefully you can see what a truly ugly world marriage can potentially be, and as such, can learn immeasurably from it!

Welcome to TAM, @Dierdre ~ please feel free to ask any of us old weathered veterans anything! We're only here to help!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## header

*Deidre* said:


>


You'll see.


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## *Deidre*

header said:


> You'll see.


Please don't post in this thread if you have nothing positive to say. Thank you.


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## SimplyAmorous

A lot about transparency spoken in this thread... 

I've been with my H for 34 yrs ...been together since our teens.. I can honestly say I've never felt the need to check up on him, like I was worried he was up to no good (flirting etc)... though I have found playboy bunny downloads on his computer (this didn't surprise me none)....

He's never felt the need to check up on me either.. I did a thread on Transparency .. it is near to my







... almost like a foundational part of our union..... but I describe it in a different way than often presented on this forum...I like to call it a "*willing - giving" transparency* ... it's not something pressured, or forced in any way. 

You said you & he are very OPEN.. we are like this also... we've always enjoyed the sharing of our days.. the funny







, the JUICY... the good, bad & ugly.. it makes for much entertainment even..bouncing things off of each other.... 

We willingly share our passwords..he finds mine pretty amusing -related to him .... he wouldn't be a bit surprised by anything I said in a personal message to anyone... cause he knows ME like the back of his hand.. and I feel the same.. 

There was a thread yesterday asking the foundation for a marriage.. some good answers here.. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/318450-what-foundation-marriage.html

I would also say to avoid all of these.. what Marriage researcher John Gottman calls the Four Horsemen: Recognizing Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling....



> *** *Criticism*- the act of passing judgment as to the merits of another / faultfinding. "Criticism is “really a way of fueling the attack, so you state your complaint as an attack on the other person.” ... “It’s not constructive, it winds up leading to an escalation of the conflict" ......No Criticism Please!
> 
> *** *Contempt*... When we communicate in this state, we are truly meaning - treating others with disrespect, mocking them with sarcasm, ridicule, name-calling, mimicking, and/or body language such as eye-rolling. The target of contempt is made to feel despised and worthless.....The Danger of Contempt
> 
> *** *Defensiveness*- conveys the message, “*The problem is not me. It’s you.*” From this position you imply that, because your partner threw the first stone, they are responsible for the entire conflict. You avoid taking responsibility for your own behavior by pointing to something they did prior to their complaint about you. You do not acknowledge that which is true in what they are saying about your behavior.
> 
> Defensiveness: The Poison Pill to Relationships
> 
> *** *Stonewalling* -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also known as "the Silent treatment". .. stonewalling is the absolute refusal to consider your partner’s perspective. If you listen at all, you do it dismissively or contemptuously.This is the passive-aggressive stance many people take during a fight. It's the "Nothing's wrong, I'm fine!" said even when there is clearly something wrong.
> 
> Other common songs of the stonewaller are:“Just leave me alone…”...“Do whatever you want"....“End of conversation"..."that's enough"....
> 
> Stonewalling: How to recognize and fix ......... How to Ruin a Perfectly Good Relationship - Stonewall


And how a couple handles conflict can also be very telling...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ead-4-types-5-1-ratio-marriage-conflicts.html










Truly... a wealth of information & marital learning of what to avoid.. and what can bring more intimacy in the stories shared here ...welcome to TAM !


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## *Deidre*

Thank you so much for all of that @SimplyAmorous -- wow!! Such helpful advice!! Going to check out what you suggest.


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## Kilgoretrout

*Deidre* said:


> I like all of this advice, but the passwords. Not that either of us have anything to hide, but I wonder if I were to bring this up, if he would think I didn't trust him. I don't want to give that impression, because that's so not me. Understand the reasoning, but that would be my concern.
> 
> Do you do this in your own relationship? haha I should ask my friends to see if they do this, too.


I don't think you need to decide everything such as passwords in advance. You figure out what works
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nirvana

I am with Deidre on this one.
My wife and I both have accounts and different passwords. She leaves her email and FB open and I can look through if I wanted to. I am more closed mainly because I don't want someone to read and begin to ask me why I said this or that. I correspond a lot and don't want my wife playing "big brother" and try to control me. So it's better off that she does not see. 

I agree with Deidre that exchanging passwords actually is a sign of mistrust. When you get married, you have to take a leap of faith. Yes, you might get hurt, but it is worth taking the chance. If you jump in with all safeguards and body armor, you will never enjoy marriage. You enjoy a relationship when you are vulnerable to that person. When you are metaphorically naked to that person.


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## *Deidre*

nirvana said:


> I am with Deidre on this one.
> My wife and I both have accounts and different passwords. She leaves her email and FB open and I can look through if I wanted to. I am more closed mainly because I don't want someone to read and begin to ask me why I said this or that. I correspond a lot and don't want my wife playing "big brother" and try to control me. So it's better off that she does not see.
> 
> I agree with Deidre that exchanging passwords actually is a sign of mistrust. When you get married, you have to take a leap of faith. Yes, you might get hurt, but it is worth taking the chance. If you jump in with all safeguards and body armor, you will never enjoy marriage. You enjoy a relationship when you are vulnerable to that person. When you are metaphorically naked to that person.


I agree. Marriage isn't about knowing every thought, online post, text, conversation, etc that one's spouse has. You still should be able to be individuals, and not feel like every move you're making is going to be scrutinized by your spouse. Marriage isn't a prison.  

Frankly, if it were to get to a point where my fiance violates trust, I know myself...I will not remain in a relationship and spend my days logging into all of his accounts to prove to myself that he's not cheating. No way to live. Plus, if someone wants to cheat...do we really think they will be like 'oh darn...my wife/husband has my password...guess that means I won't be cheating.' lol Cheaters will find a way, and I'm not interested in babysitting a grown man.


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## GreyEcho

Welcome, I am new here as well !! Been married almost 30 years and very happy ..


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