# Man up or just show love and suck it up?



## This is me (May 4, 2011)

3 months after having her say she wants a divorce, we are still together, and meeting with a MC about every ten days. Things are OK but not great. She does not communicate, so I have to draw it out when I can and even then she is guarded.

I have been the only one really trying to make it work in my eyes, with doing the soft touching, kind words, checking in at work, etc. She will reciprocate to some degree but never initiate anything to show she is trying.

This is not unlike how things had gotten before D day. In the 16 years of marriage, she probably only initiated sex less than 10 times.

My question is since we (I) am trying to repair things, and she is not so much, would it be advised that I just continue on being the nice loving guy and hope she will join in at some point, or do I make a stand and man-up at this stage?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Has this been addressed in MC?

Maybe her perception is that YOU aren't trying but until you discuss it with the MC you will never know.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> Has this been addressed in MC?
> 
> Maybe her perception is that YOU aren't trying but until you discuss it with the MC you will never know.


We are going again this Saturday and I will bring it up. I have brought it up before and she will take the initative for a day and then back to same ole. 

If I don't take the initative on communication, loving touches or sexual advances, nothing will happen. This actually happened leading up to D Day. I thought she might fill the gap and instead she called it quits. Boy did that backfire.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Answerman said:


> I have to agree with the last response. You need to communicate your feelings to her either through the MC or at home. Just make sure to use words like " I feel" " Im trying to Understand"
> Using words like these instead of accusatory phrases such as " you always" or " your not " will put her in a mood to communicate rather than on the defensive. Good Luck !


I appreciate the responses. I will bring it up again and express it in venician. This is helpful.

My memory is not so good, but pretty certain I was delicate with expressing this to her multiple times in the past. Her family is not very touchy feely like mine, so in part I think that adds to her behaviors.

In one discussion she mentioned she wants a great marriage (assuming she was talking about ours), but I do not see her working at it with her minimal efforts, when clearly I am trying above and beyond. Example: picked up her dry cleaning yesterday without her asking.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

This is me said:


> I appreciate the responses. I will bring it up again and express it in venician. This is helpful.
> 
> My memory is not so good, but pretty certain I was delicate with expressing this to her multiple times in the past. Her family is not very touchy feely like mine, so in part I think that adds to her behaviors.
> 
> In one discussion she mentioned she wants a great marriage (assuming she was talking about ours), but I do not see her working at it with her minimal efforts, when clearly I am trying above and beyond. Example: picked up her dry cleaning yesterday without her asking.


Hi,

It is definitely a common problem. For me, the key to rebuilding our marriage was to focus on why I was doing all those nice things. In other words, was I doing them to manipulate her into doing them too or was I doing them because it was the right thing to do and because love is a verb. My advise would be to give some serious thought as to your motivations. What are they? Is it a contest of who does more or is it selfless love? That kind of contemplation and self-examining (which was taught to me via Marriage Fitness) was revelatory for me.

My 2 cents, anyway


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is me said:


> 3 months after having her say she wants a divorce, we are still together, and meeting with a MC about every ten days. Things are OK but not great. She does not communicate, so I have to draw it out when I can and even then she is guarded.
> 
> I have been the only one really trying to make it work in my eyes, with doing the soft touching, kind words, checking in at work, etc. She will reciprocate to some degree but never initiate anything to show she is trying.
> 
> ...



She doesn't respond to the soft stuff. You are being far to lovey-dovey and nice to her.

Her lack of initiating means she is very likely wired to respond to sexual submission to a man.

Your other post suggests she is upping the ante to turn herself into a sex object (fake boobs etc). Suggest you start treating her like a sex object. She likely wants to have rough sex.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Ser Pounce-A-Lot said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is definitely a common problem. For me, the key to rebuilding our marriage was to focus on why I was doing all those nice things. In other words, was I doing them to manipulate her into doing them too or was I doing them because it was the right thing to do and because love is a verb. My advise would be to give some serious thought as to your motivations. What are they? Is it a contest of who does more or is it selfless love? That kind of contemplation and self-examining (which was taught to me via Marriage Fitness) was revelatory for me.
> 
> My 2 cents, anyway


You have a good point. Having thought back to our earliest years, she was much more loving. I believe my motivations are to win back her expressions of love which are minimal if at all right now. I guess my motivations are selfish to a degree for wanting to love and be loved, but then again this is one of the main reasons I married her. 

I am hoping my extra efforts show her I want this to work and hope she sees the same value in our relationship.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Atholk said:


> She doesn't respond to the soft stuff. You are being far to lovey-dovey and nice to her.
> 
> Her lack of initiating means she is very likely wired to respond to sexual submission to a man.
> 
> Your other post suggests she is upping the ante to turn herself into a sex object (fake boobs etc). Suggest you start treating her like a sex object. She likely wants to have rough sex.


I have enjoyed reading your blog and learned a few things. I believe I fit the Beta mold and am testing more Alpha moves. I tried the 10 minute kiss and I am not certain it worked as outlined. She had her eyes wide open the whole time, but it was still good for me.

She grants me about 2 encounters a week in which she doesn't do much more but lay there and let me do my thing. I am not complaining for getting some, but it is what I would imagine to be like doing it with a poorly programed robot doll. No human emotion. 

As with most of the years before she always puts up some resistance to doing it and takes a little sales approach to close the deal. This make it feel like I am stealing it. No good.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is me said:


> I have enjoyed reading your blog and learned a few things. I believe I fit the Beta mold and am testing more Alpha moves. I tried the 10 minute kiss and I am not certain it worked as outlined. She had her eyes wide open the whole time, but it was still good for me.


Eeek you mean 10 second kiss right? You have to keep doing it day after after. It's not a one and done


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Atholk said:


> Eeek you mean 10 second kiss right? You have to keep doing it day after after. It's not a one and done


Ha! 10 seconds is correct. So how do you approach this again and again? 

Also you mentioned she needs rough sex? Any advice?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is me said:


> Ha! 10 seconds is correct. So how do you approach this again and again?
> 
> Also you mentioned she needs rough sex? Any advice?



You just go kiss her or call her over or something.

Just try some hard/vigorous thrusting... try and get the bed squeaking.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Atholk said:


> You just go kiss her or call her over or something.
> 
> Just try some hard/vigorous thrusting... try and get the bed squeaking.


Well went in for the second 10 second (not min) kiss and she gave me a..."oh come on, this is the kind of forced stuff I don't like". I said it is only a kiss. 

Certainly will not lead to any close encounters in this case.


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## MAD OBX (Feb 28, 2011)

In my experience being alpha or beta only works if it is part of your journey. Nothing contrived to get a RESULT works in my opinion. 

Release the result. Find out what you want to be like. How you feel. What you want to do. 

And accept the fact that it might all be a mistake. 

This is your journey, your llife. Only you can live it. Don't let others tell you how you should be you. 

Only you can find that out. And only by trying and falling and getting back up again. 

Don't be afraid to fail. 

It's okay about the kiss. So, she's not into it. It's not personal. Laugh it off. Try something else. Or try that again some other time if you want. 

Finding your path is not without rough spots.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

This is me said:


> You have a good point. Having thought back to our earliest years, she was much more loving. I believe my motivations are to win back her expressions of love which are minimal if at all right now. I guess my motivations are selfish to a degree for wanting to love and be loved, but then again this is one of the main reasons I married her.
> 
> I am hoping my extra efforts show her I want this to work and hope she sees the same value in our relationship.


I think with everyone, no matter what, there is a desire to be loved by your spouse but the desire _to love_ rather than _be loved_ needs to be much stronger for a marriage to succeed in the _long term_, in my humble opinion. The trouble with purely hoping that she sees your efforts is that if you don't see that result from her you'll probably give up after a while (it's only natural). It's kinda like manipulating someone. But if you focus on loving her because "it's the right thing to do" (quote from Mort Fertel) and you're committed to being the best husband you can possibly be then you will keep showing your love no matter how she responds - and then in time, maybe a few months, she'll most likely see your devotion and love is consistent and will be inspired to do the same. 

Hope that makes sense.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Ser Pounce-A-Lot said:


> I think with everyone, no matter what, there is a desire to be loved by your spouse but the desire _to love_ rather than _be loved_ needs to be much stronger for a marriage to succeed in the _long term_, in my humble opinion. The trouble with purely hoping that she sees your efforts is that if you don't see that result from her you'll probably give up after a while (it's only natural). It's kinda like manipulating someone. But if you focus on loving her because "it's the right thing to do" (quote from Mort Fertel) and you're committed to being the best husband you can possibly be then you will keep showing your love no matter how she responds - and then in time, maybe a few months, she'll most likely see your devotion and love is consistent and will be inspired to do the same.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.



This does make sense and appreciate the thought. In a nutshell I should lower my own expectations and just do the right thing, which I have been doing (in my eyes). At the MC this weekend she said my extra efforts are over-the-top, so I will hold back a bit, but see true value in showing her that I care and love her. 

Having expressed my love for her a couple times a week for months now and not hearing it back makes me wonder. Is she truly without love in her heart anymore or is she only holding back? I think of the oldest kid in the movie "Terms of Endearment" who really did love his mother, but only showed that he hated her and wonder if this is the wifes mindset at this time.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

This is me said:


> This does make sense and appreciate the thought. In a nutshell I should lower my own expectations and just do the right thing, which I have been doing (in my eyes). At the MC this weekend she said my extra efforts are over-the-top, so I will hold back a bit, but see true value in showing her that I care and love her.
> 
> Having expressed my love for her a couple times a week for months now and not hearing it back makes me wonder. Is she truly without love in her heart anymore or is she only holding back? I think of the oldest kid in the movie "Terms of Endearment" who really did love his mother, but only showed that he hated her and wonder if this is the wifes mindset at this time.


That is a good question but I think consistently doing the right thing and being patient is about all you can do. I was in your same situation and felt hopeless, and if you want to know what truly turned my marriage around it was signing up for the free Marriage Fitness e-mails series (by myself too). It might help you too in being consistent and trying to determine your wife's mindset. 

Hope things get better soon!


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Ser Pounce-A-Lot said:


> That is a good question but I think consistently doing the right thing and being patient is about all you can do. I was in your same situation and felt hopeless, and if you want to know what truly turned my marriage around it was signing up for the free Marriage Fitness e-mails series (by myself too). It might help you too in being consistent and trying to determine your wife's mindset.
> 
> Hope things get better soon!


I do appreciate your support. I do get Morts emails and find them helpful. I reread them from time to time to help me continue when frustration sets in. My plan is to continue with the current MC and if things do not improve in a few months, I will do the boot camp and invite her to join. Thanks!


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

This is me said:


> I do appreciate your support. I do get Morts emails and find them helpful. I reread them from time to time to help me continue when frustration sets in. My plan is to continue with the current MC and if things do not improve in a few months, I will do the boot camp and invite her to join. Thanks!


You're welcome


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