# a friend is tempting me horribly



## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a guy friend that made a large quantity of explicit homemade pornography with a mutual female friend of ours. I have been very pent up from not having sex with my wife for about 27 months (we have been married 13); My friend invited me to watch some of the videos with him. I have been "accidentally" exposed to some photos before and I know perfectly well their existence is non-fictitious. 

Of course the same thing exists online but the thrill, the adrenaline and good feelings comes from it being a girl I know very well.

There's obviously a huge list of ethically wrong things that have been done and are in the queue to be done - him doing the dominant, emotionally controlling things he did to her, him recording it, him offering to share it with me, me thinking about it, me thinking about how to hide the fact i want to from my own wife; I am hanging over the side of a waterfall I want very much to fall into. I won't actually say the act in the video - it's graphic and I know a lot of you get very uncomfortable, but personally I am just fascinated in a very bad way and I feel consumed by this. 

I find that if I relieve myself, it only helps for a short while before I again want to let my friend know I very much wish to see the video. I do not have a strong religious conviction so I do not have a hidden source of help. 

The best defense against myself so far has been to try convincing myself that if I see the act in the video, it will so desensitize me that I will lose a part of what makes sex interesting. Or, that I will normalize it and expect it for my own self, and truly not many men should expect such a fantasy to occur. 

My head is bobbing up and down beneath the waterfall. He's only a phone call away. I have just enough conviction to know I'm a bad person.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're not a bad person for being tempted, but you may be a bad person for giving in.

First step... Address what's wrong with your marriage. Actually, that's the only step. Either fix it, or get out. 2 years without sex is not a marriage, it's two room-mates. And you're both at fault for it. So work on it together.

C


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm a bit confused.

Are you interested in the girl in the video - simply watching the video - or interested in some particular sex act that you think is "wrong" in some way?

You said you are just a phone call away - from what exactly? You'd pick up the phone and say "Can I see the video?"

Maybe we could all watch it together - because at this point - I'm pretty curious about the whole thing myself!!!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I definitely want a copy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

so a friend is asking to watch a sex video of himself and a girl who had no idea was being recorded? Sounds super creepy to me


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

PBear said:


> You're not a bad person for being tempted, but you may be a bad person for giving in.
> 
> First step... Address what's wrong with your marriage. Actually, that's the only step. Either fix it, or get out. _2 years without sex is not a marriage, it's two room-mates. _ And you're both at fault for it. So work on it together.
> 
> C


:iagree::iagree: I said the same to another member, with a sexless marriage.

You alone have the power and control to walk away from disgusting films, which dehumanize a woman. She does not know she is being filmed, so this is nonconsensual.  Why are you participating in this? Your friend belongs in jail!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> so a friend is asking to watch a sex video of himself and a girl who had no idea was being recorded? Sounds super creepy to me


The original post didn't say the videos were secretly made. So I would assume the woman knew about the camera.

However, it's not clear whether she intended for the videos to be viewed by others. Perhaps she's an exhibitionist and doesn't mind. Otherwise, I agree that it's wrong.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am also trying to figure out what exactly you are being tempted to do that is wrong.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

PHTlump said:


> The original post didn't say the videos were secretly made. So I would assume the woman knew about the camera.
> 
> However, it's not clear whether she intended for the videos to be viewed by others. Perhaps she's an exhibitionist and doesn't mind. Otherwise, I agree that it's wrong.


That's what I took from it at first as well - but he DOES mention some sort of manipulation.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> The original post didn't say the videos were secretly made. So I would assume the woman knew about the camera.
> 
> However, it's not clear whether she intended for the videos to be viewed by others. Perhaps she's an exhibitionist and doesn't mind. Otherwise, I agree that it's wrong.


To answer a few questions - 

No, I am not interested in the girl for myself. She has a fantastic body and is *extremely* open to experimenting, but she's also sort of crazy in the head.

She's an exhibitionist and she knows the video was made - it's a POV style film with her face filling the frame for most of the activity.

I haven't had sex because the wife has some medical thing that is over my head. Cysts? That cause pain. I dunno. She just doesn't like sex and when I get horny it gives her anxiety. Everything else is great in the marriage and we're financially fused and I don't really want to change that. Call me selfish for staying but, she gets 100% of her needs filled and I get 90% of mine filled. I hate to be pragmatic/dumb sounding, but I'm just seeing less black and white, more grey, and wondering why I should mess something up for something as trivial as sexual urges. I'm 32, and each year the urge is less - my body is slowing down and by 40 I am sure I'll be down to a few JPEGs a week to stay sane. ..right?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I do not have a strong religious conviction so I do not have a hidden source of help.


your screen name alone tells me that

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I am also trying to figure out what exactly you are being tempted to do that is wrong.


To watch the videos. Isnt watching another girl from the real world sort of cheating somehow? I think most people can do the "hollywood porn disconnect" but seeing a drinking buddy doing ... *that* is ... something different. So I am questioning here, anyways.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> so a friend is asking to watch a sex video of himself and a girl who had no idea was being recorded? Sounds super creepy to me


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is one those things that feels wrong ... because it is.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> your screen name alone tells me that
> 
> Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Touche, friend. I chose this to travel incognito but you raise a valid point.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> That's what I took from it at first as well - but he DOES mention some sort of manipulation.


They are really horrible to each other - lots of head games and general bad fit-togetherness in the psychological department. She has some innate need to be degraded, and he either has some innate need to degrade, or he's just a guy who said "....ok!" when asked to video record the debauchery.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> To watch the videos. Isnt watching another girl from the real world sort of cheating somehow? I think most people can do the "hollywood porn disconnect" but seeing a drinking buddy doing ... *that* is ... something different. So I am questioning here, anyways.


have you asked your wife if she cares?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Touche, friend. I chose this to travel incognito but you raise a valid point.


takes one to know one


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Not getting quite the resistance I guess I was anticipating - not that I am using this forum's response for permission but, if you were going to watch such a video, and it had to be in the guy's presence, since he wasn't going to let a copy get out (played on his tv over a beer); there's the uncomfortable question of whether it's meant to arouse then and there or be something for the mental archive. Or the gist of it being, am I supposed to get excited in front of him and.. what, *enjoy* it there? This is factor x and it's weirdish. I am not a homophobe but this alone might be reason to just sorta brush this idea off in my head.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> have you asked your wife if she cares?


That was one of my original bullet points on what makes me feel scummy.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

wasn't there a South Park episode asking if masturbating next a guy was gay?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> To answer a few questions -
> 
> No, I am not interested in the girl for myself. She has a fantastic body and is *extremely* open to experimenting, but she's also sort of crazy in the head.
> 
> ...


Have you talked to your wife openly about what your options are? If you're not getting sex from her, where would she like you to go? There's also lots of options that don't involve full-on intercourse, and you'll still be able to have an intimate relationship. Intimacy isn't just "penis in vagina"...

And seriously? Cysts are "over your head"? When my STBXW was diagnosed with celiac disease, I did some serious research on it to find out how it affected her, what treatment was necessary, and what research was going on. Not meaning to be particularly judgemental, but being interested in your partner's health issues is a pretty basic part of a loving relationship.

Personally, when I was faced with a declining sex life, it resulted in a lot of resentment and frustrations that spilled out into other areas of our relationship. But maybe that's just me.

C


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> wasn't there a South Park episode asking if masturbating next a guy was gay?


I am curious what the answer is. Honestly, I think that if he made the first move, I would follow suit. Which probably speaks volumes to my pent uppedness on its own.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

PBear said:


> And seriously? Cysts are "over your head"? When my STBXW was diagnosed with celiac disease, I did some serious research on it to find out how it affected her, what treatment was necessary, and what research was going on. Not meaning to be particularly judgemental, but being interested in your partner's health issues is a pretty basic part of a loving relationship.
> 
> C


I understand the concept of a cyst, but the multifactor machinery inflicted by the development/rupture of the cysts, how many random cysts, her hydration/dehydration/fatigue/work stress levels, her feminine cycle, and her proclivity to avoid sex talk, I have become exhausted and just round it down to "not tonight". This behavior has been working extremely well in terms of lubricating the gears of the marriage, other than the one secret, hidden cog dragging along in back (my sexual "needs" - which seem 100% mental and should be more controllable, I question)


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> so a friend is asking to watch a sex video of himself and a girl who had no idea was being recorded? Sounds super creepy to me


:iagree::scratchhead:


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I think stick to your internet porn. This just sounds wrong - with the potential to get even worse.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

To continue with some of the other thoughts... Anonymous porn (to me at least) is one thing... But watching a friend and mutual friend doing degrading sexual things is crossing a line on the cheating scale. If it's something you have to hide from your wife, that should give you the answer you're looking for.

As far whipping it out in front of another guy, I doubt I could finish. I don't think it's gay or anything (so long as you're not crossing swords, or trading weapons), but still not my cup of tea. But I would think that having an orgasm in the same room with another guy is another big step in the whole "cheating scale"... Again, what would your wife think of that? And as an FYI, this is coming from someone who had an MMF threesome set up for his GF last month. So I'm not judging you on the gay/straight thing, just on "is it right" thing.

You say your sex drive has declined, but now you're considering DIY in front of another guy... How is that declining? It seems more likely that you're just damning up the river.

C


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> I think stick to your internet porn. This just sounds wrong - with the potential to get even worse.


Worse is the scenario I am attempting to discourage myself with. Talk me out of it with a worst case scenario. I was hoping someone has walked this path before me honestly.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I understand the concept of a cyst, but the multifactor machinery inflicted by the development/rupture of the cysts, how many random cysts, her hydration/dehydration/fatigue/work stress levels, her feminine cycle, and her proclivity to avoid sex talk, I have become exhausted and just round it down to "not tonight". This behavior has been working extremely well in terms of lubricating the gears of the marriage, other than the one secret, hidden cog dragging along in back (my sexual "needs" - which seem 100% mental and should be more controllable, I question)


Take your balls, squeeze them really hard--- all day. Twist while squeezing and in the mean time, pull out your pubes, one by one. 

Then, while continuing to squeeze (tightly) and twist (tightly) push down where your bladder is and maybe have someone punch you in the stomach. Twice.

And then, at the end of this long day, pop one of your nads. 

That's about how a cyst would feel to a man, I'm guessing.

Oh and don't forget to have someone bugging you for sex this whole time even though you said you are in pain.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> Worse is the scenario I am attempting to discourage myself with. Talk me out of it with a worst case scenario. I was hoping someone has walked this path before me honestly.


Worse case scenario? Your wife finds out you were spanking the monkey while watching a video of your friend and some girl. She goes for a very public and messy divorce.

C


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

PBear said:


> To continue with some of the other thoughts... Anonymous porn (to me at least) is one thing... But watching a friend and mutual friend doing degrading sexual things is crossing a line on the cheating scale. If it's something you have to hide from your wife, that should give you the answer you're looking for.
> 
> As far whipping it out in front of another guy, I doubt I could finish. I don't think it's gay or anything (so long as you're not crossing swords, or trading weapons), but still not my cup of tea. But I would think that having an orgasm in the same room with another guy is another big step in the whole "cheating scale"... Again, what would your wife think of that? And as an FYI, this is coming from someone who had an MMF threesome set up for his GF last month. So I'm not judging you on the gay/straight thing, just on "is it right" thing.
> 
> ...



probably the best post in this thread


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Take your balls, squeeze them really hard--- all day. Twist while squeezing and in the mean time, pull out your pubes, one by one.
> 
> Then, while continuing to squeeze (tightly) and twist (tightly) push down where your bladder is and maybe have someone punch you in the stomach. Twice.
> 
> ...


Some days, I'm really glad I'm a guy... No periods, no childbirth, no cysts... Thanks for making me feel better about my situation! 

C


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Take your balls, squeeze them really hard--- all day. Twist while squeezing and in the mean time, pull out your pubes, one by one.
> 
> Then, while continuing to squeeze (tightly) and twist (tightly) push down where your bladder is and maybe have someone punch you in the stomach. Twice.
> 
> ...


but if you have someone do that to you instead of self inflicting it then it's cheating


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Never walked that path myself - but what if your friend(s) asked you to join in on a video?

How will you feel about this very attractive girl the next time you see her? What if this girl is the 'BEST' you've ever seen? Imagine knowing the greatest porn star of all time was just a few blocks away - might be hard to stay away.

Speaking of mutual male masturbation - what if your friend has some gay tendencies and you find he wants to make a different type of video with you? I couldn't do it...(not that there's anything wrong with it...)

What if this girl cleans up her act and marries a really good friend in 10 years?

How would your wife feel?

One of the problems with online porn - or rented porn - or whatever - is that if you watch too much you begin to become desensitized. You've seen the normal stuff - so now let's watch something a bit edgier - three guys/one girl. Then its four guys/one girl - or WHATEVER...

Just wondering - if you watch this and it excites you - what's the next step?


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

PBear said:


> As far whipping it out in front of another guy, I doubt I could finish. I don't think it's gay or anything (so long as you're not crossing swords, or trading weapons), but still not my cup of tea. But I would think that having an orgasm in the same room with another guy is another big step in the whole "cheating scale"... Again, what would your wife think of that? And as an FYI, this is coming from someone who had an MMF threesome set up for his GF last month. So I'm not judging you on the gay/straight thing, just on "is it right" thing.
> 
> C


There's the two sides of the river. The side the wife knows about, and the side she doesn't. She doesn't know what porn I watch. She doesnt know the stuff I've done growing up. She doesn't want to. And if it's a black and white thing, I feel like if the above scenario unfurled, it would go into that "it doesnt affect the wife's health, it helps my emotional state, do it and keep it quiet".

Then I guess falling into the river is the stuff that I need to feel bad about - whatever crosses the line into cheating. That needs to be a grey area for me otherwise any random sex thought I have is cheating and what's the point.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Worse is the scenario I am attempting to discourage myself with. Talk me out of it with a worst case scenario. I was hoping someone has walked this path before me honestly.


I would say worse case you watch the video then when you see the woman from the video in person you feel the urge to do those sex acts with her. Now how long before you give into this urge as well? Leading to an affair. 

My husband has a porn addiction he just came to gripes with and is fighting it everyday. Now if he had watched a sex tape of a woman he knew and saw a lot of I would never trust him around her at all.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> "it doesnt affect the wife's health, it helps my emotional state, do it and keep it quiet".




typical justifications of a wayward


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> but if you have someone do that to you instead of self inflicting it then it's cheating


:rofl: Well, for scientific purposes.

I suffered from a cyst the size of a grapefruit on my left ovary for almost a year  It was the worst pain ever...and it was attracted to my sciatic nerve which didn't help. 

I had a bunch of things wrong with my uterus too, and endometriosis. I did have surgery a year ago this month and finally have pain free cycles. It was hell. 24/7 pain. I still had sex with my husband, but it had to be quick  I hated making him feel like that...but honestly, the pain was that bad.

So when I hear men say they don't "get it", it makes me irritated. Have some compassion. These things don't eff around.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

That's why internet porn is considered somewhat "safe". You're never going to meet Jenna Jameson - or whoever. She'll never knock on your door and ask you to join in. Its total fantasy.

This is just too real.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> typical justifications of a wayward


:iagree: Wtf. lolll Just go do it already. You know you want to.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Watching porn featuring a female friend is not the kind of thing you should do without your wife's consent and the consent of the female friend. It's one thing if a buddy shows you a picture of his woman or whatever, I've had that happen several times and it's really not a big deal, but doing this is a real big deal. You will be crossing a major line into dangerous territory. Are you willing to destroy your marriage over this? 
If you're just curious about seeing a woman engage in particular acts you can find porn on the internet that doesn't feature a woman you know, it's not like it's hard to do. 
Also, porn isn't nearly as sexually arousing when it's a woman you know who isn't and never will be your sex partner. It makes it too personal, it becomes about finding them sexually arousing and that's uncomfortably inappropriate to the point of distraction. Instead of "wow, his girlfriend has such sexy tits!" it turns into "yep, that's his attractive girlfriend with no clothes on". If that's not how things are for you with this female friend you need to get a handle on it. You should be able to see any of your female friends in a sexual context without finding them personally sexy.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Never walked that path myself - but what if your friend(s) asked you to join in on a video?
> 
> How will you feel about this very attractive girl the next time you see her? What if this girl is the 'BEST' you've ever seen? Imagine knowing the greatest porn star of all time was just a few blocks away - might be hard to stay away.
> 
> ...


I hate that I am a scumbag for answering a rhetorical, but if I were asked to be in a video in a non-commital sense, like the nonacting cameraman - I dont know - is there a huge difference between watching a deed in video and in real life? Sadly I would suffer on this for a while before answering.

If he had gay tendencies - again, to what extent? This is the trouble with the grey color answers. Mutual self service is more than 0% straight to me. If you dont look at each other, is it just a little straighter? If you help each other? Somewhere pretty quickly it crosses the line of "not straight anymore", but is that the same line as cheating? Rhetorical. Not asking for a literal. I would probably consider some things that are not straight to occur before cheating, but it's all mental.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

cheating is crossing boundaries set by you and your wife, the answer lies in the fact that if dont tell her because you are afraid of her being upset about it then it's crossing the line


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I bow before your noodly appendages.




spaghettimonster said:


> I haven't had sex because the wife has some medical thing that is over my head. Cysts? That cause pain. I dunno.


Then you should find out.
Ovarian or uterine cysts come and go and when they get bad they can be surgically/medically removed decreased.



> Everything else is great in the marriage and we're financially fused and I don't really want to change that. Call me selfish for staying but, she gets 100% of her needs filled and I get 90% of mine filled. I hate to be pragmatic/dumb sounding, but I'm just seeing less black and white, more grey, and wondering why I should mess something up for something as trivial as sexual urges.


Maybe it works for you but sex is a necessity in my life.
I`m 44 and the urges haven`t abated with age. 

I don`t really see an ethical problem with you watching the vid but the situation sounds weird about the way it would go down.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> So when I hear men say they don't "get it", it makes me irritated. Have some compassion. These things don't eff around.


Let's be callous and make equivalent the sexual needs of a man and emotional needs of a woman. I said callous so obviously this is already incorrect.

Anyways, you're fine and your husband needs an operation before he will give you emotional support again. He's put the operation off because for him there's nothing missing. He's starting to get annoyed why you are always asking him if he'll ever get that operation.

If you don't agree with the comparison, say why I am wrong instead of just assuming I am unfeeling or don't care.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> cheating is crossing boundaries set by you and your wife, the answer lies in the fact that if dont tell her because you are afraid of her being upset about it then it's crossing the line


You're the injector of rationality today, I guess.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Let's be callous and make equivalent the sexual needs of a man and emotional needs of a woman. I said callous so obviously this is already incorrect.
> 
> Anyways, you're fine and your husband needs an operation before he will give you emotional support again. He's put the operation off because for him there's nothing missing. He's starting to get annoyed why you are always asking him if he'll ever get that operation.
> 
> If you don't agree with the comparison, say why I am wrong instead of just assuming I am unfeeling or don't care.


I get that, and I would be frustrated. However, it is scary to have that area worked on (although I couldn't wait to get surgery) and she may be scared of what more they'll find (I was sure they'd find cancer). 

My husband has been putting off a surgery--- to repair an old hernia that was fixed 7 years ago. He is in pain a lot of the time, but you'd never know it. 

I wouldn't justify looking at porn though with the fact that he's in pain sometimes and can't perform.

And while I am a woman and like emotional support, I'm also very sexual so even a week without sex and I'm wondering wtf is up....actually 3 days without sex makes me wonder...


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## piqued (Mar 25, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> I understand the concept of a cyst, but the multifactor machinery inflicted by the development/rupture of the cysts, how many random cysts, her hydration/dehydration/fatigue/work stress levels, her feminine cycle, and her proclivity to avoid sex talk, I have become exhausted and just round it down to "not tonight". This behavior has been working extremely well in terms of lubricating the gears of the marriage, other than the one secret, hidden cog dragging along in back (my sexual "needs" - which seem 100% mental and should be more controllable, I question)



Well, your sexual needs are not "just mental" and should be addressed. If you are in a sexless relationship, but an otherwise good relationship, you NEED to talk about this with your wife, without affixing blame. There is nothing wrong with saying "honey, i love you a great deal, and i know you have pain (etc. etc. etc.) that makes sex between us not a comfortable thing. Nevertheless, I'm only 32 and obviously have sexual urges so i want to talk with you about how i should deal with these. I need 'release' at times so what should i do...1. masturbate w/o you knowing to pics, porn, etc. 2. masturbate in front of you 3. seek things outside the home and marriage?" 4. have you jerk or s*ck me off

Just have an open discussion about it. It she gets p*ssed just say you understand, but that any 32 yo man is going to need release and that you'd recommend she research this on the internet. Tell her you love her and wouldn't want to do anything to hurt her which is WHY you're bringing it up and talking to her about it. If she is amped up because of the conversation, just say you're trying to be faithful and honest so ask her to please take some time to consider her feeling on this and to let you know.

This is what couples do. Just be honest. Now, if you can get this resolved you will probably find the prospect of a circle jerk (or worse) with your friend a lot less appealing.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I get that, and I would be frustrated. However, it is scary to have that area worked on (although I couldn't wait to get surgery) and she may be scared of what more they'll find (I was sure they'd find cancer).
> 
> My husband has been putting off a surgery--- to repair an old hernia that was fixed 7 years ago. He is in pain a lot of the time, but you'd never know it.
> 
> ...


Well since you're reciprocating, I will try to follow suit: It's heart-wrenching to have a newlywed wife that constantly claims I am attractive enough and kind enough, but to never see any physical reaction that confirms her nice words. After a few years of absolutely zero physical contact, spanning the last of my 20's into these early 30's, it has been a very elaborate lie I have told myself to keep from crashing inwards. And not to sound emo but, more than a few sleeping pills just to quiet the doubt machine and get some sleep. 

I find it refutable to even consider ending an otherwise perfect marriage due to one little incompatibility as trivial as sexual incompatibility.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Well since you're reciprocating, I will try to follow suit: It's heart-wrenching to have a newlywed wife that constantly claims I am attractive enough and kind enough, but to never see any physical reaction that confirms her nice words. After a few years of absolutely zero physical contact, spanning the last of my 20's into these early 30's, it has been a very elaborate lie I have told myself to keep from crashing inwards. And not to sound emo but, more than a few sleeping pills just to quiet the doubt machine and get some sleep.
> 
> I find it refutable to even consider ending an otherwise perfect marriage due to one little incompatibility as trivial as sexual incompatibility.


I apologize for the tone of that - I had intended it to be an inverse pity party but utterly failed at it. I regret accomplishing nothing with the above post. 

I just meant to portray that I have emotional constructs as well. Maybe this proves I dont


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Trivial? Ha! Then why are you here asking about sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I find it refutable to even consider ending an otherwise perfect marriage due to one little incompatibility as trivial as sexual incompatibility.


Odd, most married folks (male & female)consider sexual compatibility to be a foundation of their relationship.

Are there other forms of intimacy in your relationship?

If so what are they?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Sexual needs are real and important - but its not like some creep and a wanna be porn star are your only options for release.

If you really feel THAT tempted - you should probably just end the marriage first.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I can only imagine your frustration and heartache  I don't know how I would make it without being resentful, etc.

Now, she says she's in pain, but ....she doesn't give ANY affection?

That's just not right. 



> I find it refutable to even consider ending an otherwise perfect marriage due to one little incompatibility as trivial as sexual incompatibility.


Sarcasm, I assume?

Well, maybe if she knew you were close to ending it because of this, she'd step up?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I apologize for the tone of that - I had intended it to be an inverse pity party but utterly failed at it. I regret accomplishing nothing with the above post.
> 
> I just meant to portray that I have emotional constructs as well. Maybe this proves I dont


No worries. It just shows your pain.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

piqued said:


> I need 'release' at times so what should i do...1. masturbate w/o you knowing to pics, porn, etc. 2. masturbate in front of you 3. seek things outside the home and marriage?" 4. have you jerk or s*ck me off


Her predilection is to avoid sexual topics altogether. I can't paint a portrait of her online without being completely one-sided mind you, especially from an anonymous man claiming dire need of sexual release. But we don't jive on sex talk. We just have these explosions and then there's crying and I feel guilty for making her cry. Actually it's "nice" because the guilt eradicates the horny pent-up for a few weeks. (It's not really nice. But it's a medicine.)

Failing myself as a communicator, the stem of the issue irrevocably is that porn is getting boring and isnt quenching my need. Reality porn of friends is the heroin to my cocaine, I suppose. Or some drug metaphor, I don't do any so this was largely a poor attempt.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Odd, most married folks (male & female)consider sexual compatibility to be a foundation of their relationship.
> 
> Are there other forms of intimacy in your relationship?
> 
> If so what are they?


Reading this caused one of those uncomfortable lurches in my throat like when you find out a puppy died trying to cross the street to see you.

And has left me feeling a little empty and disconnected.


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## piqued (Mar 25, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I'm also very sexual so even a week without sex and I'm wondering wtf is up....actually 3 days without sex makes me wonder...


I didn't pick up any overt resentment in the OP's post. I think he recognizes that his wife suffers with pain (and other things as well). He was stating more matter of factly that he has gone without sex for over 2 years.

While I appreciate your past, and the hurdles you and other women have gone through, I respectfully think you came on like a hurricane with "bust a nad" stuff implying that he's just an unfeeling male.

Like I quoted you here, you start going wft after 3 days. How would you feel sexually if your husband had an excuse (valid or otherwise) for over 2 years?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

How about you just learn to be sensual. Learn to do things with her and don't use her (in her mind anyway).

When people shy away from a conversation it's because they don't want to talk about it-- or hurt the person they are talking to about it.

In the meantime, cut the crap with the porn and all of that. Go jack off (YES I know it's not as good...) but...I dunno...or talk to her and say you're on the edge of just jumping.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you say you have a good marriage yet you cant talk to her about an important issue, you should re-evaluate the term "good"


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> Trivial? Ha! Then why are you here asking about sex
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's not. He's trying to figure out if his **** erotic fantasies about his friend are going to damage his marriage.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

piqued said:


> I didn't pick up any overt resentment in the OP's post. I think he recognizes that his wife suffers with pain (and other things as well). He was stating more matter of factly that he has gone without sex for over 2 years.
> 
> While I appreciate your past, and the hurdles you and other women have gone through, I respectfully think you came on like a hurricane with "bust a nad" stuff implying that he's just an unfeeling male.
> 
> Like I quoted you here, you start going wft after 3 days. How would you feel sexually if your husband had an excuse (valid or otherwise) for over 2 years?


We'd talk about it. Medical conditions are total exception. Even if he just didn't want to have sex, we'd at least be able to talk about it.

Also, I didn't come on like a hurricane, just putting it into perspective. And I don't think the OP is unfeeling. He and I are talking quite nicely, thanks


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> He's not. He's trying to figure out if his **** erotic fantasies about his friend are going to damage his marriage.



and the reason he's even considering that is because he isn't having a good sex life


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

May be a silly question - have you tried performing oral sex on her? Would this be uncomfortable for her *(ladies?)*?

You need to find a way to open up the lines of communication.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Sexual needs are real and important - but its not like some creep and a wanna be porn star are your only options for release.
> 
> If you really feel THAT tempted - you should probably just end the marriage first.


I just can't. I really do love her entirely, and I don't and can't blame her for any inadequacy or complaint I have - she either has the valid medical excuse or uses it secretly as a crutch that I would never assume.

I could never live down the guilt of letting someone else's world collapse around them just because of a selfish thing in my head. How can you even feel human after such an action? 

We had sex a few meager times, unsuccessfully and decided it was an omen to wait for marriage. That the stress of the premarital was a disaster and it would get better, that to commit forever would clear our anxiety. It didnt but I am here propping up someone else's universe. 

I can't even see myself. There must be a monster looking back in the mirror but I see only my fatigued, entitled self.


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## piqued (Mar 25, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> Her predilection is to avoid sexual topics altogether. I can't paint a portrait of her online without being completely one-sided mind you, especially from an anonymous man claiming dire need of sexual release. But we don't jive on sex talk. We just have these explosions and then there's crying and I feel guilty for making her cry. Actually it's "nice" because the guilt eradicates the horny pent-up for a few weeks. (It's not really nice. But it's a medicine.)
> 
> Failing myself as a communicator, the stem of the issue irrevocably is that porn is getting boring and isnt quenching my need. Reality porn of friends is the heroin to my cocaine, I suppose. Or some drug metaphor, I don't do any so this was largely a poor attempt.


If both of you don't communicate well, especially about sexual issues, then what you really need is a counselor. Know that, going to a counselor is not an admission of failure, rather it is a tool used by many for a successful relationship.

The fact that your relationship is not "perfect" should not be a surprise to either of you, and instead of telling her you want both of you to go "because we have problems" tell her you want the two of you to go to "make our relationship even better" because you can concede you're not the best communicator and you think this can help you grow closer to each other. Paint it as a non-threatening positive because, after all, that is what is designed to be.

If you two can't even talk about sex I would, if I were you, have an appt set up with a counselor before even posting in here again or before even taking out the garbage. How important is your marriage and your wife to you? Fight for a good marriage!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I just can't. I really do love her entirely, and I don't and can't blame her for any inadequacy or complaint I have - she either has the valid medical excuse or uses it secretly as a crutch that I would never assume.
> 
> I could never live down the guilt of letting someone else's world collapse around them just because of a selfish thing in my head. How can you even feel human after such an action?
> 
> ...


Oooooh ok. This is a huge red flag for me. Most people I know who waited to have sex til marriage now have horrible sex lives.

Would a sex therapist be an option?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> and the reason he's even considering that is because he isn't having a good sex life


You don't know by brand of sarcasm then I guess. Everybody is focusing on the chick. I find it very interesting that he wants to see his jerk of a friend have sex.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

piqued said:


> If both of you don't communicate well, especially about sexual issues, then what you really need is a counselor. Know that, going to a counselor is not an admission of failure, rather it is a tool used by many for a successful relationship.
> 
> The fact that your relationship is not "perfect" should not be a surprise to either of you, and instead of telling her you want both of you to go "because we have problems" tell her you want the two of you to go to "make our relationship even better" because you can concede you're not the best communicator and you think this can help you grow closer to each other. Paint it as a non-threatening positive because, after all, that is what is designed to be.
> 
> *If you two can't even talk about sex I would, if I were you, have an appt set up with a counselor before even posting in here again or before even taking out the garbage. How important is your marriage and your wife to you? Fight for a good marriage*!


:iagree:


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You don't know by brand of sarcasm then I guess. Everybody is focusing on the chick. I find it very interesting that he wants to see his jerk of a friend have sex.


I feel a little cornered with that but will defuse your connotation with the realization that yes, I am slightly interested in that aspect, even if just a little.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I was also going to ask if a sex therapist would be in order.

I am not able to fathom why you say you have a good marriage yet there is this huge unyielding perpetual problem. You are fooling yourself.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> You are fooling yourself.


Not to sound trite but honestly, deep down I know that's the entire purpose of this exercise, is to figure out how to further fool myself. Even if I can articulate it in words right now, I know later on I will be on another chapter in my mind and unaware of this one.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> I feel a little cornered with that but will defuse your connotation with the realization that yes, I am slightly interested in that aspect, even if just a little.


Then it is without a doubt cheating. 

Would you feel comfortable with her watching a sex video while sitting next to a man pleasuring himself, even if she wasn't interested in him at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> Then it is without a doubt cheating.
> 
> Would you feel comfortable with her watching a sex video while sitting next to a man pleasuring himself, even if she wasn't interested in him at all?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To that extent, of course. Originally though the offer was merely to watch the video. That this escalated into some ulterior fantasy of my mind on an anonymous internet forum is a digression I am willing to account for but not dedicate myself to.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Sorry - will ask again - is oral sex with the wife an option?


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Sorry - will ask again - is oral sex with the wife an option?


I'm sorry I missed this - she tolerates it for a minute or two - she told me she knows I am good at it. But she pulls me back up because she "wants to see my face". Usually I feel like that's a cop out and that she's holding back from pleasure, or is shy or self conscious. Or doesnt like it.


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

spaghettimonster said:


> I do not have a strong religious conviction so I do not have a hidden source of help.


Morality and a sense of what is right and wrong doesn't come from religion. It comes from inside you. You either have it or you don't. Most people know in their heart what is right and wrong. Some people are able to come up with enough bulls**t in their head to justify it.

When I used to go to church there was a guy in my sunday school class that had a porn addiction. He was sometimes the sunday school leader in our class. No one knew about his porn/sex problem, but from some of the things he said to me and another guy it was pretty obvious to me that he looked at it a lot. I'm a pretty funny, engaging guy and have a crazy sens eof humor so maybe he felt he could share it with me. People open up to me a lot for some reason.

One day as we were walking out of the class he stopped me and my buddy and told us about this woman at his gym who was coming onto him and let it be nown that she wanted to have sex with him. She was a married woman about mid 40's (he was mid 30's). He was running it by us wondering what to do. My and my buddy looked at each other and we were both thinking the same thing "Is this dis-s**t really asking us if he should have an affair?". He knew it was wrong but for whatever reason he was just obsessed with this woman (and other women) and was becoming dis-satisfied with his marriage. Maybe he was wanting us to give him the go ahead. He was probably going to ask enough people until someone told him it was ok (answer shopping). I told him to go ahead and have the affair but he may wind up divorced living in an apartment and only being able to see his kids every other weekend.

I'm not sure whether he had the affair with that particular woman, but a year later his wife got fed up with his BS and kicked him out. He was an alcoholic, was on prescription meds and was messing around on her. He moved into an apartment and now has pictures of him and his girlfriend(s) on his FB page. He got pulled over about 6 months ago for DUI. Then about two months ago he got pulled over again for DUI, only this time he had his young kid in the car and got hit with a child endangerment charge (a felony). He really screwed his life up because he felt he was missing out on something - women, partying, etc.

If you were having sex a few times a week would you still have this crazy desire to take part in one of these videos? Is it only because of your lack of sex? If it is then get into MC and work it out with your wife. If you would have this urge (that seems to be driving you crazy) even if you had sex every day then then you have problem and need to talk to someone about it.

As far as the religion = morality comment. Below is a pretty entertaining video of a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton about whether morality can exist without religion. Please don't watch it if you (or whoever) are easily offended about your religion.

Sharpton / Hitchens Debate - Can Morality Exist Without God? - YouTube


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I'm sorry I missed this - she tolerates it for a minute or two - she told me she knows I am good at it. But she pulls me back up because she "wants to see my face". Usually I feel like that's a cop out and that she's holding back from pleasure, or is shy or self conscious. Or doesnt like it.


I never even interpreted this as from her - it's about the same commitment. I can usually get a minute or two if it's in the shower. I can appreciate the clean factor and have no qualms about it. I prefer it myself. But she gets grossed out by sex fluids very quickly and then it's time for me to finish myself off. It feels like an anatomy lesson by then so I usually have to close my eyes to complete...


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> To that extent, of course. Originally though the offer was merely to watch the video. That this escalated into some ulterior fantasy of my mind on an anonymous internet forum is a digression I am willing to account for but not dedicate myself to.


But that scenario is certainly something that could happen if you were to watch this video. It's also not a stretch to think this could be a setup, with her waiting in the closet hoping that TWO men will simultaneously degrade her in unimaginable ways. 

You have the right to decide that this is worth losing your marriage for. If you intend to go through with it, please realize your W has a right to know who she married. Heck, telling her you're considering this might lead her to seek further help for her cysts (or shank you). One thing is for sure, if you're going to stay with her you probably don't want this "friend" in your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> One thing is for sure, if you're going to stay with her you probably don't want this "friend" in your life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This friend has caused me so much bad emotional turmoil - we don't really even connect emotionally though. He's like some programmed agent interacting with me here in reality. He has tons of ****ty female friends that he has casual sex with. He cheats on this girl. She cheats on him. We met as neighbors. We didnt seek each other out.

I would say the above quoted portion is the thing with the most truthiness for me today in this thread. But that's just for me, not in general and I really appreciate all the advice people have given me.


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## piqued (Mar 25, 2010)

Mike188 said:


> As far as the religion = morality comment. Below is a pretty entertaining video of a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton about whether marality can exist without religion. Please don't watch it if you (or whoever) are easily offended about your religion.
> 
> Sharpton / Hitchens Debate - Can Morality Exist Without God? - YouTube


Hahaha, LMAO...I'm not even going to watch it and I know what an unfair and one-sided debate that is going to be. Hitchens is a pretty smart guy (and atheist) and Sharpton is, well, not exactly the sharpest tack in the room. I know he is a Rev. but he's much more a community advocate than an accomplished theologian. I'm sure there is a more equitable debate on the subject somewhere than that pairing, lol.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Originally Posted by tacoma
> Odd, most married folks (male & female)consider sexual compatibility to be a foundation of their relationship.
> 
> Are there other forms of intimacy in your relationship?
> ...





spaghettimonster said:


> Reading this caused one of those uncomfortable lurches in my throat like when you find out a puppy died trying to cross the street to see you.
> 
> And has left me feeling a little empty and disconnected.


So what's the answer to the question? 

I'm getting the sense that the problem you and your wife have isn't merely her cysts. They're a good excuse for not being intimate with each other in general, much less having sex with each other. You also have little or no communication when it comes to sex and intimacy. Can you discuss other "painful" topics? Or do those merely get swept under the rug as well?

Have you looked into counseling? As a way of building up your communication toolkit? Because, my friend, I see a future for you that involves increasing frustration and resentment until you finally either snap and leave, or cheat, or simply turn into a bitter old man. You need to find a way to deal with the issues in a healthy manner, rather than hoping they'll just go away in time.

C


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

PBear said:


> So what's the answer to the question?
> 
> I'm getting the sense that the problem you and your wife have isn't merely her cysts. They're a good excuse for not being intimate with each other in general, much less having sex with each other. You also have little or no communication when it comes to sex and intimacy. Can you discuss other "painful" topics? Or do those merely get swept under the rug as well?
> 
> ...


We can weather any other topic like rational people. I know it's secondhand and useless for me to relay her words, but she has said that she was brought up in a very puritanical childhood, and has just always felt programmed to clam up at sex stuff. Nudity on tv upsets her. Sometimes that sorta things makes me feel better, like the focus isn't my needs or weirdness or perversion.

But other times it makes me feel like a pervert with pervert needs. 

Obviously I am not a pervert. Or if I am, then it's ok, so long as no one is being cheated on or hurt. Dan Savage's "GGG" concept. Good, Giving, Game I think they are. I listened to him a little too much last year. He really makes the listener feel entitled to sex if they are with someone. I just was always upset how easy he suggests moving on, or even that there's a grey area to cheat. Not that he's got control over me but listening too long did sully my expectations of riding out the dry spell forever.

I don't want to keep dumping variables onto this pile that make it more and more one-sided. But she's not on this thread, this thread is for me. I do realize how I sound and I am sure she has a different story to tell as well, maybe with complaints about me that describe me very accurately.

Anyways, yes - I have told her that we should see a MC and she was very heated denying me that. She said if we're going to a counselor then we might as well hang it up since we already have issues that deep. I have been careful not to suggest it again. I am not anti counselor, just anti making her cry.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Reading this caused one of those uncomfortable lurches in my throat like when you find out a puppy died trying to cross the street to see you.
> 
> And has left me feeling a little empty and disconnected.



Is that because you don`t have intimacy in your marriage or because it saddens you that sex is actually important to most marriages?


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Is that because you don`t have intimacy in your marriage or because it saddens you that sex is actually important to most marriages?


I dunno man, I'm sorta putting a wall up around that black hole of a thought. It's giving me some cognitive dissonance and I am fuzzing it out with youtube videos of kung fu kittens. You know I just want to feel sexy for a night. I just want someone to treat me like a sex object and use me and make me feel shallowly desired. Shrug. That's all I got.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Mike188 said:


> As far as the religion = morality comment. Below is a pretty entertaining video of a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton about whether marality can exist without religion. Please don't watch it if you (or whoever) are easily offended about your religion.
> 
> Sharpton / Hitchens Debate - Can Morality Exist Without God? - YouTube


You also shouldn`t watch it if you can`t bear the site of Hitchens getting his ass kicked by Sharpton,,Al Sharpton!!

Jesus ..what humiliation.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

The best answer I gave myself so far is, my friend, for doing what he did on the video, is probably a sociopath and if he can do that sorta thing to a girl, maybe he can be just as horrible to his buddy sitting on the couch next to him. Except instead of it being sexy, just scary. Maybe that's the tiny sliver of thought I need to skirt this horrible idea.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> I dunno man, I'm sorta putting a wall up around that black hole of a thought. It's giving me some cognitive dissonance and I am fuzzing it out with youtube videos of kung fu kittens. You know I just want to feel sexy for a night. I just want someone to treat me like a sex object and use me and make me feel shallowly desired. Shrug. That's all I got.


Then let me help you.

Do you hold her in your arms in bed at night?

How many times a day would you say the two of you kiss daily..on average?

Are you in the habit of grabbing her ass when walking past her in the kitchen?

Do you hold hands at the mall?

Whens the last time you kissed the back of her neck?

When one of you gets home from a long tiring ****ty day is there a kiss involved upon greeting?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> The best answer I gave myself so far is, my friend, for doing what he did on the video, is probably a sociopath and if he can do that sorta thing to a girl, maybe he can be just as horrible to his buddy sitting on the couch next to him. Except instead of it being sexy, just scary. Maybe that's the tiny sliver of thought I need to skirt this horrible idea.


I really have to get a copy of this vid...


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Then let me help you.
> 
> Do you hold her in your arms in bed at night?
> 
> ...


We spoon half the night, every night. Like a ball of human yarn. I grab her all the time and get a playful naughty glare and then get grabbed or spanked back. We hold hands everywhere, and I carry her over puddles. We fall asleep making out. We have the passion. Just not the giggidy.

This is my last post for the day. Thank you everyone.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

tacoma said:


> I really have to get a copy of this vid...


You're kidding, right? Sociopathic degredation of women is a turn on to you?


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Anyways, yes - I have told her that we should see a MC and she was very heated denying me that. She said if we're going to a counselor then we might as well hang it up since we already have issues that deep. I have been careful not to suggest it again. I am not anti counselor, just anti making her cry.


That doesn't make sense, she is threatening you with divorce if you seek help from an expert. You already have issues deep enough that going to a counselor may be the only way to resolve them. It sounds like these issues have existed from the very beginning of the relationship. She may not want to face them but one way or another she is going to have to eventually. I think you should call her bluff, tell her your marriage must be improved by any means necessary and demand she joins you in therapy.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> We can weather any other topic like rational people. I know it's secondhand and useless for me to relay her words, but she has said that she was brought up in a very puritanical childhood, and has just always felt programmed to clam up at sex stuff. Nudity on tv upsets her. Sometimes that sorta things makes me feel better, like the focus isn't my needs or weirdness or perversion.
> 
> But other times it makes me feel like a pervert with pervert needs.
> 
> ...


If it was me, I'd be looking at this and deciding if I wanted to remain in a sexless relationship, or if I thought I deserved more. In fact, I made that decision. I was faced with a declining sex life, and a wife who didn't see the need to change anything. I thought I could fill my intimacy needs elsewhere and stay married, thus preserving the family. I spent about 6 months on a slippery slope of being on "dating" sites before finally having two sexual flings. It was a really stupid decision, one that I regret and would strongly recommend that nobody follow in my footsteps. I'm not proud of the decisions I made at that time, and blame nobody else for them (my wife in particular). I was the one that made those decisions rather than leaving my wife.

You know what it demonstrated to me? That the intimacy I was missing was much more than sex. I lasted about 3 months from the time of my first encouter to the time I moved out of the house. Cheap thrills on the side didn't fix anything in the marriage.

So ask yourself this... Or ask your wife, rather. Would she rather you had an affair or cheat on her, or would she rather you ended the marriage. I'm pretty sure I could guess her answer. Most people would much rather have the marriage ended for any reason than to be cheated on (and then likely have the marriage end). So in my opinion, any reason you give for holding on to the marriage and cheating on the side is merely rationalization for what you want, not for what's best for your wife. You're thinking you can eat your cake and have it too. 

And yes, I'm familiar with Dan Savage. Have his app on my iPhone. Even if you think he's God's gift to advice columnists, you're not listening to him. He condones sex outside the marriage under three conditions.
1) Not getting sex from home
2) Divorce isn't an option
3) Sex outside the marriage may let you stay sane.

You, my friend, have only 2 of those three conditions. So cheating on your spouse would earn you the title of "CPOS". I think I've got a spare t-shirt here for you, if you chose to continue down the path...

Savage Love | Nerve.com

C


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

tacoma said:


> You also shouldn`t watch it if you can`t bear the site of Hitchens getting his ass kicked by Sharpton,,Al Sharpton!!
> 
> Jesus ..what humiliation.


You can't be serious. Tell me you're joking.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

This. Site is being overrun by justifyers of cheating. I'm disgusted by the if you aren't getting it it is a grey area argument. Scum cheat. Period. Divorce is always an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You're kidding, right? Sociopathic degredation of women is a turn on to you?


I know it can be for me, if that's what does it for her. This is not something we are supposed to mention in polite society, but many women do actually love that sort of thing. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I do find it somewhat unsettling, but if it's her choice what's the problem?


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

1. you should probably explore this and watch the video. everyone has different limits with sex and we have no idea what yours are. If you have nothing sexual in your life, I can see why wanting to explore this is irresistible. I really don't see big risks in this. Some here are trying to paint the picture that you will cross a line that will take you down a death spiral of cheating and perversion. I don't buy this. Maybe it will open your eyes a bit and awaken some things in your sexuality. I don't really see the problem with this. We learned that this is consensual and that the woman enjoys this kind of treatment. She's exploring her sexuality with this and you can too.

2. Don't worry about what's gay or not gay. You'll never get consensus on this. If you want to do it, then do it. I've watched porn a couple of times with guys and never masturbated with them. Doesn't mean i'm less gay but just never wanted to. If you want to do it and you don't have a problem with it, then don't worry about a black and white label of gay or not gay.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

couple said:


> 1. you should probably explore this and watch the video. everyone has different limits with sex and we have no idea what yours are. If you have nothing sexual in your life, I can see why wanting to explore this is irresistible. I really don't see big risks in this. Some here are trying to paint the picture that you will cross a line that will take you down a death spiral of cheating and perversion. I don't buy this. Maybe it will open your eyes a bit and awaken some things in your sexuality. I don't really see the problem with this. We learned that this is consensual and that the woman enjoys this kind of treatment. She's exploring her sexuality with this and you can too.
> 
> 2. Don't worry about what's gay or not gay. You'll never get consensus on this. If you want to do it, then do it. I've watched porn a couple of times with guys and never masturbated with them. Doesn't mean i'm less gay but just never wanted to. If you want to do it and you don't have a problem with it, then don't worry about a black and white label of gay or not gay.


And when his wife finds out? Should he call you for more advice?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah. Explore sex vids, want with another guy and then look yourself in the eye. Like what you see? 

No woman would have anything but contempt for someone who has lost respect for himself. And this whole thread is about falling to a new low. How about deal with your real problems rather than create new ones?

Or just fall into the depravity that some men like to push. Makes them feel less depraved. And your so called friend is one of the depraved. 

How much porn are you consuming? Do you think you might be on the path to harder stuff? Then it won't be real enough after a short while, esp with depraved friend making it seem so great. Then it'll be cheating with women with no self respect. That dance reduces both parties.

If someone has no self respect and you take advantage of it, you are an opportunistic creep. Selfish and ammoral ppl use others and justify it be saying she likes it without consideration for the greater underlying truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

as to the friend who made the video, have you considered that he is using you for his own sexual pleasure the same way as he did with the woman who was the subject of his vid? He gets his kicks from making it and then gets his kicks again when he can show it off to someone, so by "letting" you watch it it is in fact for his own gratification, you are playing right into his hands in the same kind of way this woman was. To fall in his trap degrades you too, unless you don't mind being his captive and submissive sexual audience.


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## spaghettimonster (Oct 17, 2011)

Lon said:


> as to the friend who made the video, have you considered that he is using you for his own sexual pleasure the same way as he did with the woman who was the subject of his vid? He gets his kicks from making it and then gets his kicks again when he can show it off to someone, so by "letting" you watch it it is in fact for his own gratification, you are playing right into his hands in the same kind of way this woman was. To fall in his trap degrades you too, unless you don't mind being his captive and submissive sexual audience.


There was a lot of smart, candid discussion overnight. Thanks to everyone. 

It's not worth the mental turmoil. I'm just going to pass on this one and take longer showers.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> There was a lot of smart, candid discussion overnight. Thanks to everyone.
> 
> It's not worth the mental turmoil. I'm just going to pass on this one and take longer showers.


Or maybe you should really address this issue within yourself. By your own words, your lack of sex in the marriage has caused you to be tempted by this offer. There will be other temptations, whether from other offers from this friend or in some other form. This issue is not going away.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You say this depraved man who uses women is your drinking buddy. Yet you are married to a strait-laced woman. I assume that your choice of a mate was based on her purity and high moral standards. There is a strange dichotomy between a man that you chose as a friend to drunk with and the woman you chose to have for a lifetime partner. Which are you? A man with high moral standards or a man who uses women? Or maybe you exist in the gray zone. 

Another question does your wife know this man and woman since they are friends of yours? Does she know that this man is an oppurtunist and pervert? Moreover does this mutual female friend know that the vid she made is being shopped around to his friends? You said she is your friend, if so why not tell her what he is doing, that would put a end to this man's exploitation. 

If your wife does not know everything about you and the quality of people you associate with then she does not know you fully and she is not integrated into your life. That may or may not effect the quality of your relationship and her ability to make the transition from a good girl into a lover to her husband. You are hiding a large part of yourself because you fear that revealing your normal male desires is at variance with her antisex stance. 

What would happen if you were totally open with her and revealed the depth of your suffering and temptations? I think I can predict what will happen if you don't. You will remain vulnerable to a sexual indiscretion and may someday act on it. If you do you will feel much worse that you do now. 

To prevent that from happening you will have to make the decision now to reveal yourself and insist upon MC. If she does not go you go. Give it all you have to get your relationship to a place where you and your wife are happy and intimate and that you keep no secrets. If that is not possible, you may have to part to avoid an even bigger pain to you and her. From reading your post infidelity would devastate you as much as your wife. 

I'd say drop this so called friend, go completely dark with him. Dont hang out where he is or with his crowd. Find new male friends who are positive moral and do not view women as objects for sexual gratification. You need good male friends that support the best of you. He is not a friend to the best of you or your marriage because he wants to decent into the depth of his disgusting moral depravity which has it own miseries. 

Concentrate on your relationship, be brave and honest with your wife. The turmoil you will go through is better than the pain and blow to your sense of yourself and to your wife by continuing the way you are now. It may lead to an end to your union but that may be the better of two evils. 

BTW I was a good girl when I got married and I have changed. It was a conscious choice to get to know and truly understand men. I think you will find posting from other former good girls on this site. Simply Amorous is on the comes to mind. I am trying to say that it is up to your wife to work on changing her mindset. Give her a chance to do that by revealing your pain and angst.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

couple said:


> 1. you should probably explore this and watch the video. everyone has different limits with sex and we have no idea what yours are. If you have nothing sexual in your life, I can see why wanting to explore this is irresistible. I really don't see big risks in this. Some here are trying to paint the picture that you will cross a line that will take you down a death spiral of cheating and perversion. I don't buy this. Maybe it will open your eyes a bit and awaken some things in your sexuality. I don't really see the problem with this. We learned that this is consensual and that the woman enjoys this kind of treatment. She's exploring her sexuality with this and you can too. ay.


Oh really. What does this women private exploration of her sexuality have to do with exposure to all of this man's friends. Her sexuality belongs to her not him she shared with him but in return he humiliates and uses her. You easily accept exploitation of this women fir meaningless sexual pleasure and miss the bigger picture. It is wrong- immoral, depraved and objectifying and dishonoring this woman. 

I bet if some woman swindled your out of money and bragged about it to all of your friends you would feel himilated and wronged, no. This woman has the same feelings as you, even if she is useful for sexual titillation. Being sexually stimulated is not the be all and end all of life. There is empathy, compassion, self control and simple humanity that should give one pause when stealing from one person what is theirs alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

spaghettimonster said:


> Isnt watching another girl from the real world sort of cheating somehow? I think most people can do the "hollywood porn disconnect" but seeing a drinking buddy doing ... *that* is ... something different. So I am questioning here, anyways.


It's not really different. Porn actresses are women in the real world. The fact that you don't know them doesn't mean they aren't someone's girlfriend, daughter, or mother.

The possible differences here are that you could be tempted to cheat with this woman that you know and have access to. You have said she is very casual with sex, so she may be game for a casual affair. Another difference is that, although you said she is an exhibitionist, it's unclear whether she knows that the videos are being shared with men other than her boyfriend. If she believes the videos are strictly for their private use, then watching them is wrong (regardless of your views on pornography).


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

piqued said:


> Hahaha, LMAO...I'm not even going to watch it and I know what an unfair and one-sided debate that is going to be. Hitchens is a pretty smart guy (and atheist) and Sharpton is, well, not exactly the sharpest tack in the room. I know he is a Rev. but he's much more a community advocate than an accomplished theologian. I'm sure there is a more equitable debate on the subject somewhere than that pairing, lol.


Dennis Prager makes a pretty compelling argument that morality requires God.
No God, no moral society | Dennis Prager | Jewish Journal


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

So am i to understand that your friend has taped his acts with this women without her knowledge? i had not the time to read the 7 pages of replys/posts...etc. and am basing my post on that assumption. 

To give you a perspective on my feelings on things i don't feel that porn or strip clubs are wrong per se but, they are however, grey areas and the subject of controversy. Personally I am OK with both but, my wife is not so hot on either. 

I think that your friend has voilated his sex partner's rights and i would imagine the law. 

Even if you you neglect this, i believe watching a women you know engaged in sex is a much more severe violation of your marital vows than other more benign (agurably relatively) activities since you know this women. If i apply it to my wife for example... iwould be ok with her watching porn or going to a strip club (which she did for a couple bachelorett parties) but, i would NOT want her to view images of videos of men she knew. I would think this objection would be somewhat universal. 

When i was single i contemplating video taping women secretly for future viewing (me only). After considering it i quickly concluded how wrong it was.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

spaghettimonster said:


> Well since you're reciprocating, I will try to follow suit: It's heart-wrenching to have a newlywed wife that constantly claims I am attractive enough and kind enough, but to never see any physical reaction that confirms her nice words. After a few years of absolutely zero physical contact, spanning the last of my 20's into these early 30's, it has been a very elaborate lie I have told myself to keep from crashing inwards. And not to sound emo but, more than a few sleeping pills just to quiet the doubt machine and get some sleep.
> 
> I find it refutable to even consider ending an otherwise perfect marriage due to one little incompatibility as trivial as sexual incompatibility.



You need to talk with your wife about this. She probably wants to meet your needs, but clearly there are things holding her back. You are trying not to make waves and as each year passes, you will likely get more and more bitter, resentful and disconnected from your wife. The fact that you are already contemplating crossing the line shows just how much distance there is in your marriage.

The other question I have is more ethical. Does the woman in the film know that this guy is showing it to other people? If she thinks he's keeping it to himself, and he's not, that is slimy.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

I will also add that you should be very careful of this "friend". Guilt by association holds true. Again, as i have stated i am fairly liberal with what is imperically "right VS wrong" in this situation there is no room for interpretation. Bad enough he record their session for his own jollies..to offer anyone else (especially a friend of this girl) crosses all boundries of what is right. 

I firmly believe most liars and cheats are ultimately exposed either because of guilt, bragging or stupidity. If you care not about your mutual female friend think of your reputation. What if your wife were to find out that you knew this? At the very least you should let you your friend know that you have reconsidered this and want no part of it. 

I am also a believer that anyone who screws another will also screw you as well. Given your circle of friends it may not work for you to totally write your freind off but, be very, very careful what you tell this "friend" and what you do with him. I don't know your friend but, his actions point to a person without scruples.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

tjohnson said:


> So am i to understand that your friend has taped his acts with this women without her knowledge? i had not the time to read the 7 pages of replys/posts...etc. and am basing my post on that assumption.


That is why posting from ignorance is a problem. If you had read the thread, you would know that the woman knew about the camera. The OP said she was an exhibitionist, but never said specifically whether the woman minded showing the videos to other men.



tjohnson said:


> Even if you you neglect this, i believe watching a women you know engaged in sex is a much more severe violation of your marital vows than other more benign (agurably relatively) activities since you know this women. If i apply it to my wife for example... iwould be ok with her watching porn or going to a strip club (which she did for a couple bachelorett parties) but, i would NOT want her to view images of videos of men she knew. I would think this objection would be somewhat universal.


I can understand if your objection to your wife viewing men she knows is that she would be more likely to consider an affair with these men. However, how would her viewing the videos constitute any more severe a violation of her vows than her viewing commercial porn? In each case, she's watching other men have sex.


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