# Ultimatums vs. Boundaries



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Meriam-Webster defines an ultimatum as a “final proposition, condition, or demand especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action.”

YourDictionary.com: “The definition of an ultimatum is a demand which, if not met, will end a relationship or otherwise result in some serious consequence. When a woman says to her boyfriend ‘marry me or I am leaving you,’ this is an example of an ultimatum.”

How does setting a “boundary” not qualify as an ultimatum?


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> Meriam-Webster defines an ultimatum as a “final proposition, condition, or demand especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action.”
> 
> YourDictionary.com: “The definition of an ultimatum is a demand which, if not met, will end a relationship or otherwise result in some serious consequence. When a woman says to her boyfriend ‘marry me or I am leaving you,’ this is an example of an ultimatum.”
> 
> How does setting a “boundary” not qualify as an ultimatum?



Is this about strippers? 
Setting a boundary is a ‘soft’ ultimatum. Giving an ultimatum is a hard one (har har!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:

1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”

and

2) “It’s up to you to decide whether to do X. You are free to do whatever you want to do. But if you do X, I will divorce you.”

They seem the same to me. The only difference is semantics.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> 
> 1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”
> 
> ...


Do you have any boundaries?


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> ...


Sure. We haven’t gotten to the point where one person insisted on doing X when the other was adamantly opposed to it, though.

One boundary that some people have is to break up with any g/f who issues an ultimatum.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> 
> 1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”
> 
> ...




A bit, yes. But in the second one, you don’t say the last sentence. But it is kind of implied I suppose.
I don’t actually like the word ‘boundaries’ either. It seems something a parent should be doing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

For self-centered people, any boundary they don't like will be seen as an ultimatum.

Because entitlement.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> 
> 1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”
> 
> ...


Actually, there IS a difference. Healthy people have boundaries that we enforce every day.

They might be heard as an ultimatum by someone who thinks they have the right to cross them without consequence.

But again, we get it. A particular type of man feels they have been cheated in life if they can't pay to watch naked women.

Bless their hearts.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Can boundaries be flexible? In which case they wouldn’t be like an ultimatum.

Boundary is something between a preference and an ultimatum, me thinks.

1. I would prefer it if you didn’t go to strip clubs.
2. I don’t let my men go to strip clubs.
3. If you go to a stop club, I will *** you up!!!

Any difference?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I dunno. If you decide to extend your house over your neighbor's property line, will they be flexible with their boundary?

I have boundaries. For example, if a business treats me poorly or cheats me, I will not continue to do business there.

A crappy dishonest business might put and call that an ultimatum.

Sucks for them. That's my boundary.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

However the overwhelming reality is much more complex. A typical conversation will most likely go like this:

Smart ass Me: “Darling, would you mind if I can be so selfless and help my best friend organise his stag due for the most important day of his life. He wanted to go to a strip club. It’s a vegetarian strip club and most strippers are into feminism”.

My wife: “do whatever the fook you want”

Me in my head: was it an ultimatum? A boundary? A preference? A permission? Yeah of course, permission!!!

2 years later on TAM: “my wife hasn’t had sex with me in two years even though I do all the dishes. Please help!”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Amen

A boundary - isn't specific to the other person. It is my thing about me. If a prospective partner cannot accept that - we aren't compatible. 

I believe the definition of a person without boundaries is: doormat




personofinterest said:


> For self-centered people, any boundary they don't like will be seen as an ultimatum.
> 
> Because entitlement.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why would I pay M2 to take her clothes off?

I just quietly raise the thermostat a couple degrees and she takes em off for free. 




personofinterest said:


> Actually, there IS a difference. Healthy people have boundaries that we enforce every day.
> 
> They might be heard as an ultimatum by someone who thinks they have the right to cross them without consequence.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> Meriam-Webster defines an ultimatum as a “final proposition, condition, or demand especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action.”
> 
> YourDictionary.com: “The definition of an ultimatum is a demand which, if not met, will end a relationship or otherwise result in some serious consequence. When a woman says to her boyfriend ‘marry me or I am leaving you,’ this is an example of an ultimatum.”
> 
> How does setting a “boundary” not qualify as an ultimatum?


I guess the difference is in wording and as @personofinterest mentioned, interpretation For example...

1). Ultimatum: I will leave you if you do xyz

2) Boundary: I will not allow someone who does XYZ to be a part of my life. 

The result is the same in both cases.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

An ultimatum is about controlling another's actions.

A boundary is about controlling your own.

In your example, you actually demonstrated two ultimatums rather than an ultimatum versus a boundary. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> How does setting a “boundary” not qualify as an ultimatum?


There might not be a difference. It all depends on what you can live with in terms of a spouse’s behavior. A boundary for me has always been opposite sex friendships and contact with Ex’s. My wife tested that boundary about 10 years ago. My reaction to a contact she made with an Ex put her on notice that I was willing to risk everything if she insisted on maintaining contact with this person (there is a lot more to the story than this). In the end, we are still together.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

To me n ultimatum is a final warning to someone who has crossed a boundary. 

Ultimatums can be OK if you are willing to back them up and if the consequences you are threatening are legal and moral. Where ultimatums (and boundaries) fail if if there are so many of them that some will be broken, and then you don't really want to take the action you listed.

If a woman tells her husband she will divorce if he goes to a strip club - then I think she needs to do exactly that.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Amen
> 
> A boundary - isn't specific to the other person. It is my thing about me. If a prospective partner cannot accept that - we aren't compatible.
> 
> I believe the definition of a person without boundaries is: doormat


Bingo. 

Heres an example of both.


1) if you go to the strip club, I'll go to the lawyer and have papers drawn up. -ultimatum

2) I wouldn't be with someone who goes to strip clubs. -boundary. 

As stated, ultimatum is about controlling the other person. A boundary is about controlling yourself. As MEM so accurately put it, a person without boundaries is a doormat. A doormat doesn't control others to walk all over them. They allow others to walk all over them. 

There's nothing about a boundary that has anything to do with controlling someone else.

Its the difference between "I wont allow you" and "I wont allow myself"


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> MEM2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Amen
> ...


Thank you. That makes sense.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Boundaries can be tested, that’s why they’re called boundaries. 
Ultimatums should be final otherwise they aren’t ultimatums.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> ....How does setting a “boundary” not qualify as an ultimatum?





CraigBesuden said:


> The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> 
> 1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”
> 
> ...


In your example they are both almost the same.

To me a boundary is about what the person speaking. It is I will not allow this to happen to me or I will not be treated this way.

For example, my W says to me that any form of oral or anal sex with me is too gross and she will never do such. That is a boundary, she doesn't say what will happen if I try to cross the boundary, but she says she will not allow it to happen. 

An ultimatim usually includes consequences. For example "if you cheat on me (and I include spending our money on strippers), I will divorce you." 

In your examples, they both had stated consequences. A boundary would be, I view your going to strip clubs and being aroused by strippers as cheating. 

Your W has made it clear what her views are and the consequences of certain actions will be. You need to determine how important those actions are to you versus how important the consequences are.

You do have the option to tell your W, that her ultimatum has deeply hurt you and made you think about what actions on her part you feel you should establish boundaries. I would not give her any ultimatums, but you might discus your boundaries.

Good luck


----------



## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

A boundary is your "line" of a type of behavior or action you consider to be a "limit" for yourself or someone else.

*Example:* In my marriage it is a boundary for me to grab the ass of a woman who is not my wife.

***

An ultimatum is what you state will happen - if you feel you need to make that statement - when a boundary is crossed.

*Example:* My wife tells me that if I go out and grab another woman's ass, she will punch me in the face and leave me.

***

So while boundaries and ultimatums are related, they are not the same thing. One is a limit. The other is the consequence of going past that limit.

***

However, crossing boundaries does not always trigger ultimatums.

*Example:* I go out and grab another woman's ass. My wife finds out. But rather than punching me in the face and leaving me, she is tremendously hurt and loses all trust for me for crossing an obvious boundary.

Clear?


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

An ultimatum is something one party issues to the other, not so clear if a boundary is the same or not. I think people use "boundary" in different ways.

I get the feeling some posters think a boundary is good, and an ultimatum is bad, but I don't think that is so. "If you **** my brother, I'm divorcing you" is an ultimatum, but one I think most of us approve of. "If you watch Seinfeld while I"m out, we aren't going to your parents" is one most of us would not.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

And then there are natural consequences. "when you go to strip clubs, I lose attraction to you."
It's not a threat, it's not a chosen boundary, it's more of a natural law. Like when you drop that rock, it falls down.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

To me the biggest difference relates to sincerity. 

If I say: I wouldn't stay with someone who does X. And I am bluffing - that is an insincere attempt to control YOU. If however I say it - and I mean it - that isn't a bluff and that really is about ME not you. 




SpinyNorman said:


> An ultimatum is something one party issues to the other, not so clear if a boundary is the same or not. I think people use "boundary" in different ways.
> 
> I get the feeling some posters think a boundary is good, and an ultimatum is bad, but I don't think that is so. "If you **** my brother, I'm divorcing you" is an ultimatum, but one I think most of us approve of. "If you watch Seinfeld while I"m out, we aren't going to your parents" is one most of us would not.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> To me the biggest difference relates to sincerity.
> 
> If I say: I wouldn't stay with someone who does X. And I am bluffing - that is an insincere attempt to control YOU. If however I say it - and I mean it - that isn't a bluff and that really is about ME not you.


Right. Boundaries aren't pushed and pulled by others. They are moved around by the one who sets them. Sometimes you dont even realize you have a boundary line until someone crosses it. Then it becomes very clear. In these cases you can't be mad at your partner. Sometimes that happens too where and unknown boundary is crossed and the person who feels wronged can't get over it. That's also horse ****, and something you need to be able to forgive.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> And then there are natural consequences. "when you go to strip clubs, I lose attraction to you."
> It's not a threat, it's not a chosen boundary, it's more of a natural law. Like when you drop that rock, it falls down.


Soooooooo good one! This makes a lot of sense.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> It's not a threat, it's not a chosen boundary, it's more of a natural law. Like when you drop that rock, it falls down.



Not in space, it won’t.
Lesson: go see strippers in space




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

MEM2020 said:


> To me the biggest difference relates to sincerity.
> 
> If I say: I wouldn't stay with someone who does X. And I am bluffing - that is an insincere attempt to control YOU. If however I say it - and I mean it - that isn't a bluff and that really is about ME not you.


I agree we shouldn't lie to the people we love, but I can very sincerely issue an ultimatum that is controlling and petty.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

It's all in the delivery.

"I can't be with someone who frequents strip clubs/drinks to excess/smokes pot"

vs

"If you go to the strip club/continue to drink/smoke pot I will divorce you".


----------



## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Maybe I should have used the word “if” as a cushion to my boundary. 

People set a boundary as a template for the relationship you want. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

If you will leave if the boundary is not respected, then it IS an ultimatum.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> The stripper discussion started it. I’m just wondering what the difference is between:
> 
> 1) “Don’t do X or I will divorce you.”
> 
> ...


Ah, I see what you are saying now. To me they are the same in end result but different in spirit. Different delivery of the exact same message, however the first one is disrespectful in it's approach. It is you telling another adult what they can or cannot do. It is you making a demand of them, and threatening punishment (divorce) if they don't obey your wishes.

The second is you *respectfully *letting another person know what you are not willing to have in your life. You respect that it is entirely their choice if they'd rather go to strip clubs than be married to you. And you assume they respect that it's your choice whether or not to be married to someone who goes to strip clubs. They can decide to do whatever they want, you are just giving them information about who you are and what you will accept in your life.

Just like if they say "I will divorce you if you do not stop harping at me about my going to strip clubs." vs. "I enjoy strip clubs and I am never going to stop frequenting them. I am not willing to be married to someone who is not okay with that and would give me a hard time over it."


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Shi du wut a ses oar HULK SPANK!!!!!


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Ultimatums don't ever have to occur. One might never in their life issue an ultimatum to another person. And if an ultimatum is all a person has in their arsenal, then they aren't going to live up to the threat anyway.

Boundaries, on the other hand, are part of a person's system of values and standards. They should be established, clearly defined, and always protected and maintained. To allow a person to cross your boundaries to the point that you either have to issue an ultimatum or to the point that you do nothing about your boundaries being crossed means you don't have any boundaries. All you have are the words that you repeat over and over to make yourself feel scrupulous in some way but don't have the wherewithal to live up to them. As has already been stated, no boundaries = doormat.

The difference, therefore, is that an ultimatum is something a person says out of desperation, whereas a boundary is something established out of self-respect. Either a person has self-respect or they don't. Those that don't can only resort to issuing ultimatums that aren't going to mean anything in the end anyway.

They are not the same, are not interchangeable, and are not a simple matter of semantics. The person who is issued an ultimatum or prefers to continue crossing boundaries may view them the same if they wish, but they're not the same, and that kind of person is the kind that others need to protect themselves and their boundaries against.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

frusdil said:


> It's all in the delivery.
> 
> "I can't be with someone who frequents strip clubs/drinks to excess/smokes pot"
> 
> ...


The first is more tactful, but at the nuts and bolts level, they're the same. 

Tact is a good thing, but there are times it should be sacrificed for directness. One is if someone ignores all of your tactful statements, then you should be direct. The other is if the person ought to know better than to suggest the thing.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

StarFires said:


> The difference, therefore, is that an ultimatum is something a person says out of desperation, whereas a boundary is something established out of self-respect. Either a person has self-respect or they don't. Those that don't can only resort to issuing ultimatums that aren't going to mean anything in the end anyway.


I really like the part that I underlined.

In part it feels like a boundary is typically something you establish early in the relationship, before it comes to marriage. People can choose to take you or leave you. Whereas an ultimatum is something issued deeper into the relationship when you are trying to change your partner's behavior. We are already together but if you do X I will leave you. But if you DO leave them when they do X regardless of your ultimatum, is that no longer an ultimatum?

For example, let's say you marry someone in your 20's and you both smoke pot some and drink alcohol. As time goes on and responsibilities increase, one partner's intoxicant consumption slows down but the other's accelerates to where the more sober partner finds it unacceptable. If that partner says "Quit/cut back or I'm leaving." That's an ultimatum, right? Then if their partner doesn't cut back and they do leave, it was also a boundary.

I think there are many people who try to use ultimatums to control their partner's behavior but then stick around when the partner ignores them. But I personally would never issue an ultimatum to a partner or even a child that I did not fully plan to follow through on. If someone says "Stop that or I'll leave you." But then they don't leave, they may have _*tried *_to give an ultimatum, but ultimately (pardon the pun) it was just an idle threat. An attempt at manipulation. (And they just taught their spouse or child or colleague to not respect them or take them seriously.)


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> I think there are many people who try to use ultimatums to control their partner's behavior but then stick around when the partner ignores them. But I personally would never issue an ultimatum to a partner or even a child that I did not fully plan to follow through on. If someone says "Stop that or I'll leave you." But then they don't leave, they may have _*tried *_to give an ultimatum, but ultimately (pardon the pun) it was just an idle threat. An attempt at manipulation. (And they just taught their spouse or child or colleague to not respect them or take them seriously.)


Precisely! Because issuing idle threats/ultimatums is all they had in their arsenal, so they say it out of desperation. When challenged, they can't live up to the threat, so they turn out to be just a doormat having to tolerate the intolerable from lack of standards/boundaries to guide them.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

My understanding is that a boundary is an "I" thing. An ultimatum is a "You" thing.

"I will not associate with people who I know go to strip clubs" - boundary.

"If You go to a strip club - it is over" - ultimatum

The boundary doesn't come with a consequence. It is a guidance by which you control your own behavior and your own life. In this case by separating yourself from the type of person who goes to the strip club.

The ultimatum has a consequence that you impose on another to control their behavior.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

DownButNotOut said:


> My understanding is that a boundary is an "I" thing. An ultimatum is a "You" thing.
> 
> "I will not associate with people who I know go to strip clubs" - boundary.
> 
> ...


Yep. People can't see the difference as in a relationship setting, it leads to the same end. When people get over their need to feel like a victim or hero all the damn time, they can see the difference in the two easily.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Yep. People can't see the difference as in a relationship setting, it leads to the same end. When people get over their need to feel like a victim or hero all the damn time, they can see the difference in the two easily.


I think where it gets confusing is when the boundary/ultimatum comes into play AFTER the relationship is well established. 

If my partner begins a new and unacceptable to me behavior after we're married, and I say "I won't be married to someone who does that." It's my boundary, but to the partner it's an ultimatum. Is it You MUST stop that or I will leave you, or is it "I will not stay here if you are going to continue to do that."

Even if it's something they've done as long as I've known them, it may become unacceptable to me as I mature and change with age.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> Just like if they say "I will divorce you if you do not stop harping at me about my going to strip clubs." vs. "I enjoy strip clubs and I am never going to stop frequenting them. I am not willing to be married to someone who is not okay with that and would give me a hard time over it."


Also, “I am not willing to be married to someone who would give me an ultimatum about anything.”


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

DownButNotOut said:


> My understanding is that a boundary is an "I" thing. An ultimatum is a "You" thing.
> 
> "I will not associate with people who I know go to strip clubs" - boundary.
> 
> ...


I like how you said this, and agree with this generally, but I think "boundary enforcement" _could _come with a consequence if the boundary is not respected, and arises in the context of an established relationship, like WorkingWife says.



WorkingWife said:


> I think where it gets confusing is when the boundary/ultimatum comes into play AFTER the relationship is well established.
> 
> If my partner begins a new and unacceptable to me behavior after we're married, and I say "I won't be married to someone who does that." It's my boundary, but to the partner it's an ultimatum. Is it You MUST stop that or I will leave you, or is it "I will not stay here if you are going to continue to do that."
> 
> Even if it's something they've done as long as I've known them, it may become unacceptable to me as I mature and change with age.


I agree, but I don't think (ideally) in a relationship, the first step of enforcing a boundary is a threat to leave. It should be a request, if necessary, followed by a discussion. I'm sure you know that, but it seems like in this thread people keep presenting threats to divorce/leaving as the only step between boundary/conflict in a relationship and a total break up.

of course if a partner's behavior is extreme, maybe a discussion is not practical in the first place, or is obviously pointless. When one party really won't listen to another, or even give them an opportunity to be heard, I agree the only option to enforce a "boundary" is divorce.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Boundaries are in my head. For example, after coming to terms that a certain woman friend was trying to hit on my (ex) h, I came to the conclusion that I would never go out with my partner and a friend unless she brings a partner too.

But now I have better friends and realise that I don't need to enforce that boundary with all of my female friends.

I have given out ultimatums. I am very carefull as to what it could mean for me. I told my (future) husband that if he needed to keep his "friend" around, then I needed to start dating other men ......... and get a boyfriend like what she has. I didn't say "I'll never see you again." But I did know that it would be a waste of my time trying to date someone who is "friends" with someone who so clearly saw me as competition.

The happy end to the story is that it didn't long for my husband to decide what he wanted ........ like a microsecond or two.

It is better to have boundaries that you keep to yourself and recalibrate as the situation goes. I know now it is much easier to say "I'm busy that day" than to have a discusion as to why you're turning down an invitation.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Ugh. I learned this the hard way - by blowing it. 

An ultimatum is a threat intended to coerce someone into doing what you want. It essentially is what the legal system is designed for. It’s punitive and can insight resentment and rebellion. 

A boundary is clearly articulating what your limits are, and how your behaviour will change if they are crossed. 

Both can be reasonable or warranted, but only the latter is always reasonable or warranted. 

“If you hang out with your ex alone I’m leaving you.” Is an ultimatum. It also leads to a contractual level of engagement and finding loopholes - like “if I’m with my ex but my friend is with me, then it’s ok.”

“If I’m out in a spot where I feel like the person I’m in a relationship with doesn’t respect me, then I won’t stay in it.” Is a boundary. It’s also abstract enough to cause both to discuss what respect means, or at least think about it.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

You don't need to enumerate your boundaries to others. I think most people have reasonable boundaaries anyway. Others just want to see how far they can get away with someone ....... like grooming.

I don't think youshould articualte your boundaries to other people. sometimes that's like waving a red flag to a bull.

Also, when you articulate a boundary out of context, other people may think it sounds naff or controlling.

For example, given the fact that my mother likes to triangulate me against people I bring around as friends, I've learned to keep my freinds away from her. There are times when that's not always possible. But I'm not going to tell someone, "If you call my mother or disclose infoa bout me to her, our friendship is toast." I think if someone said that to me, I would think that they are crzay as well. But if I did have any problems that seemed to connect friend to parent, yes, I would dump her.

I don't feel bad. Being friends with my mother is not the same as oxygen. IF they feel they have some right to be friends with my mother, well, circumstances will let them know that they can either be friends with me or my mother, but not both. And when that happens, as I noticed once, my mother has no more use for you.


----------



## duremaria (Nov 7, 2020)

I think any ultimatums in a relationship will genuinely ruin the family time. For me, it is a form of control and at the same time an indicator of the lack of respect from one partner for the other one. This kind of relationship will end sooner or later, leaving both partners with a bitter taste thinking about how the other one has ruined their life. I believe boundaries can't be good either unless are seen by the partners in a different way. Let's not forget that at the end of the day, people are different. Some go to https://www.charlotte-stripper.com and get a stripper for their partner, others consider these things absolutely unacceptable.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

An ultimatum is demanding someone else change whereas a boundary is you identifying what you need. Boundaries are your limits (and sometiems what action you will take if they are violated). Your partner has boundaries _hopefully_ too. You relationship hopefully involves both of you communicating to each other what boundaries you have from time to time so the other person is aware. But it's not like a legal contract. You are just communicating so tehre are no shocks later, that X or Y is something you will not tolerate. If your partner chooses to do X or Y despite that warning, then they can expect the consequences - divorce, separation, the cold shoulder, whatever you deem appropriate. So whereas an ultimatum is saying "you need to do or not do this or I will take action in this way" a boundary is more "I can't allow a partner I trust to do X." One is imposing one's will on another, the other is setting your limits for the other person so they know. They can decide you are a pain, and don't want to live with those limits, they can try and talk about it with you, but they know that if they violate those limits at the minimum there will be serious trust issues because that issue is important to you. 

Example: some folks think that someone driving after drinking a glass of wine is not a big deal. My friend grew up with an alcoholic father and had a friend who died in a drunk driving accident. So her boundary was, she would not get in the car with a driver who had been drinking at all. She would identify ahead of time who would be the designated driver and somtimes volunteer to do it herself. But if someone had been drinking she was just not comfortable getting in the car. She had a boyfriend who drank socially but eventually it became an issue because he drank to excess and then because he was a "good driver" would want to drive them home. They sometimes took separate cars, but eventually they broke up because she felt he did not respect her boundary and would try and pressure her on it constantly. She never said "If you drink and get behind the wheel I will leave you." She communicated a boundary to her partner. He chose to push and sometimes violate that boundary.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ultimatums, boundaries, threats?? Same same?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I see an ultimatum as sort of telling the other person what to do and a boundary is giving them the consequences if they do it.

Like 'darling you are free to choose to go and see a stripper if you must, but I am free not to accept it and to act on it if you do go'.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Boundaries exist in the absence of consequences. It defines a region between two things.

Ultimatum normally comes with a consequence, in other words “you cross this boundary then...”. A boundary with an implied consequence in my mind is not an ultimatum. Ultimatum is explicit as written above.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Boundaries exist in the absence of consequences. It defines a region between two things.
> 
> Ultimatum normally comes with a consequence, in other words “you cross this boundary then...”. A boundary with an implied consequence in my mind is not an ultimatum. Ultimatum is explicit as written above.


I disagree.

I have a boundary that if you scream at me, I will leave the house and stay in a hotel overnight. That's my boundary. It has a consequence. It's not an ultimatum.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

In a cordial relationship where both parties respect eachother, and are mature adults, a boundary doesn't need to come with a consequence.

"Stop doing this to me / around me / instead of doing XYZ, I don't like it" should be answered with an "Okay, sorry I didn't realize that."

If instead the response is a weaselly denial, lies, blame game, argument, etc., _THEN _the boundary needs to have a consequence. 

I think it's helpful to think of ultimatums outside of a cordial relationship. Maybe in a situation where a party can't leave because of financial problems, health problems, or other constraints, or the parties aren't in a relationship to begin with.

If you're giving someone an ultimatum, seems to me there's not much hope of a cordial relationship existing.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I have a boundary that if you scream at me, I will leave the house and stay in a hotel overnight. That's my boundary. It has a consequence. It's not an ultimatum.


You’re right. You can have a boundary with no consequences. The ultimatum requires a termination or “finality” component that isn’t there in your example.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

An ultimatum is a tool employed to achieve a certain result or to control someone else and has nothing to do with ones self respect and personal standards.

I recently went through this. BF and I had a talk about sex drives and frequency. My background includes being in a sexless marriage for years and I won't do a sexless relationship again. It's a hard boundary of mine. Telling BF what I have to have as far as sex goes is not an ultimatum, I'm not asking him to change. I'm telling him how MY life is going to go. If this doesn't work for him it won't be because I tried to control or manipulate him.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yes, because there is no corrective action you’re asking for I guess although it’s kind of implied.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yes, because there is no corrective action you’re asking for I guess although it’s kind of implied.


It may seem that way but it's really not. It has more to do with compatibility than anything. Two people are either compatible with the boundary or they're not. It's not about changing to become compatible either, the compatibility needs to be there from the start. Ultimatums are more about insecurities and control.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Not said:


> It may seem that way but it's really not


Username checks out?


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

frusdil said:


> It's all in the delivery.
> 
> "I can't be with someone who frequents strip clubs/drinks to excess/smokes pot"
> 
> ...


If that’s true, that it’s all in the delivery, then boundaries are a semantic way to issue ultimatums without being called out.

“I can’t allow someone to live if they don’t give me their wallet” isn’t that different from “give me your wallet or I’ll shoot you.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------

