# Getting worse...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Since the missus' landing in Planet T.A.M. I've found myself robbed of my one outlet to spill my vomit on. So hey, the missus got what she wanted (transparency), and what happens? It's no longer a rollercoaster ride, it's now all bad and getting worse.

Even told her today that I wasn't joking when I said the D word, and that we're due for a REAL separation, not just "intense fights and makeups"... we're no longer having sex, and no longer even making up... our last encounter was for the first time, very cold. Both of us have finally hardened up for the inevitability, so in a way it's an under-the-same-roof seperation.

What is the best way for us to end this? We've both given up, it's just too much work to make things work, we're just both too stubborn. That's just what it comes down to.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

start with an attorney and try for an amicable divorce. i cant remember, are there kids?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Discuss how you will split things, get a lawyer, don't fight in front of your child.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi RD ~

Sorry to hear that things are progressing downward.

I hope that you will take some time out to kind of get yourself straightened out a bit (and I hope your wife will consider the same for herself too). I think at one point you said you were doing counseling - but I can't remember if it was MC or IC - I'm sorry. 

But, please consider doing IC for yourself going forward - no matter how all of this plays out with your wife.

Best wishes.


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

I hope you both can get the help you need, to make this as good as possible for your dear daughter. I think if you would both invest the time in IC, I think you could each work out your OWN issues, then come together in marriage. Counseling. I wish people could have helped but you are so cryptic sometimes it is very hard to even understand what the problem really. Is. Good luck dude,saying a prayer for your family


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

So sorry Random Dude and Unloved.... really hoping you both would work it out somehow.  Have you thought about just a separation for starters.... and both getting individual counseling during this time apart ? ... instead of jumping straight into Divorce, the finality on paper. I could just see it now... you both jumping each other on the way to your Divorce Hearing. 

Before you end it all on paper ...I think you need to show a consistent desire & agreement - and a "self control" towards each other that Yes... this it IS.... it is over... I can live with this and be OK....we are done.... We can move on with our lives. 

Individual counseling should help you see if it CAN be worked out or if , truly , the best thing to do is Divorce.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Trenton wins!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well my IC too is in a bit of surprise at how quick and fast the wind has changed. I think we've just got to the end of our road together, to move forward, one has to give in, and neither of us will - and I can't change my wife. We can go spiralling in circles all our lives, fighting each other then making love to each other in the same wild passion but we will never get anywhere.

We are going to remain close friends - that is forever, so it's not like our daughter will be raised in an environment of tension and anger. Besides in the end we will always remain best friends, that's all we can be really though it seems. We love each other but there's no other choice for us. We have a year of seperation to wait before we can finalise a divorce anyways. 

At least we're not fighting/fightf--king anymore, and the atmosphere of the household is more peaceful if anything.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Pride goeth before a fall...


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

It's quite a turnaround. Sad. Going for a divorce so soon after it looked like you two had settled everything. All we need to do is look at posts from only a month ago.



RandomDude said:


> I don't know, sometimes I feel like we should be due for some punishment anytime soon but it just ain't coming. Well, then again, we ended up overcoming any "punishments" the world threw against us last few years.
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like well, we're out of problems


Not long ago you were looking into resources to tackle that push/pull dynamic. Did you ever bother getting any of those books? 

I've never read it, but based on AFEH's description, I have a feeling "Awareness" would have been a great book for both of you to read.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Sigh. 
Giving in is not what you need to do. Take it as a challenge. Step up, not down. Tackling the world is a good hobby. The real hard part of life is tackling yourself. Giving up on this marriage sometimes means you are giving up on yourself. Not figuring out how to solve this marriage.... how is another relationship supposed to be any easier if YOU are still in it? 

There is a saying about giving your heart. And you can choose who you give that to. But your soul is always yours. Giving in and making the first move doesn't mean you are weak. Means you are stronger, actually. So go make up. Just for today.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well my IC too is in a bit of surprise at how quick and fast the wind has changed. I think we've just got to the end of our road together, to move forward, one has to give in, and neither of us will - and I can't change my wife. We can go spiralling in circles all our lives, fighting each other then making love to each other in the same wild passion but we will never get anywhere.
> 
> We are going to remain close friends - that is forever, so it's not like our daughter will be raised in an environment of tension and anger. Besides in the end we will always remain best friends, that's all we can be really though it seems. We love each other but there's no other choice for us. We have a year of seperation to wait before we can finalise a divorce anyways.
> 
> At least we're not fighting/fightf--king anymore, and the atmosphere of the household is more peaceful if anything.


I'm sorry that you two have decided to stop fighting for your marriage. Not meaning to sound so Dr. Phil...but...before you truly decide it's over make sure you have thoroughly thought through (say that three times fast!) your entire situation...that there are no loose ends regarding your relationship...meaning that you honestly and truly believe that you have tried every avenue and that you aren't leaving out of anger/resentment or just jumping to a quick resolution.... So you are truly ready to leave everything behind, and there is no HOPE at all?


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## Schill (Dec 7, 2011)

It's a very difficult and tiring road to be down. I know exactly what he means. You talk and talk, you have your own side of things, people see things differently, but either of you just won't give in. It sounds more like a power struggle in your situation. My wife, she has learned from her folks to never be wrong, and so she always has an excuse or defense on her side. 

I think I used to give in before I starting working on myself. Now that the worm has turned and it's also gotten to the point where I don't even bother arguing anymore.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

2sick said:


> I'm sorry that you two have decided to stop fighting for your marriage. Not meaning to sound so Dr. Phil...but...before you truly decide it's over make sure you have thoroughly thought through (say that three times fast!) your entire situation...that there are no loose ends regarding your relationship...meaning that you honestly and truly believe that you have tried every avenue and that you aren't leaving out of anger/resentment or just jumping to a quick resolution.... So you are truly ready to leave everything behind, and there is no HOPE at all?


They haven't even begun.

Youth is often wasted on the young.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hey fellas... it's over, she doesn't want to reconcile, and me either. I know I'm the one who said the D word but the fact is she is the one now walking away from me. And I'm not chasing her, I love her, but I'm not what she wants or needs, and I won't really care anymore after a few more nights anyway. We're done. Love sux, whatever, time to move on and deal with whatever other BS comes next...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

sorry to hear RD, im right behind you though


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks...

It also looks like this under-the-same-roof BS ain't going to work out either. Just too much pain, as long as we can both see our daughter and come to some agreement it should be fine.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Hey fellas... it's over, she doesn't want to reconcile, and me either. I know I'm the one who said the D word but the fact is she is the one now walking away from me. And I'm not chasing her, I love her, but I'm not what she wants or needs, and I won't really care anymore after a few more nights anyway. We're done. Love sux, whatever, time to move on and deal with whatever other BS comes next...


You’ve both been trashing each others boundaries. It is immensely disrespectful and it is also abusive. So within your relationship and therefore your marriage you have both disrespect and abuse.

A lot of people don’t really know what personal boundaries are. In essence boundaries are our “rules of behaviour”. Our own personal and unique set of rules that “govern” our behaviour. In a way our rules make us what we are, define our personality, our character.

On top of not knowing what personal boundaries are, let alone the importance of them in their lives, a lot of people simply don’t know that boundaries are two way things. Our boundaries are there not only to protect ourselves from others’ abusive behaviours, they are also there to protect others from our own potentially abusive behaviours.

So our boundaries form our rules of behaviour that in this case prevent our wife from abusing our self and our self abusing our wife. For example your wife trashed your boundary that said “Please do not post on TAM”. You asserted that boundary because you were getting things useful to you here and it was a place you could safely vent. But your wife abused your boundary and in doing so she abused you. You no longer felt safe here.

For me people who trash another’s boundaries are abusers. It’s the very reason I left my wife and I will not get back with her because I know she will just repeat her abuse.



But. But we are all creatures of habit and it’s yours and your wife’s habitual behaviour that have got you to where you are now. And neither of you are any the wiser or even more knowledgeable than you were before.

And so it would go on if the two of you were to get back together again. That habitual dysfunctional behaviour would reassert itself when things got a bit tough again and stress is in the mix.



It takes massive dedication and concentration to change habitual behaviour. The two of you, both of you are driven by your individual impulses. In a way you are like two animals just responding without thought to whatever instincts and urges come into your mind driven by how you feel at the time, your emotions. You are both letting your emotions rule you, your behaviours.

To change habitual behaviour you have to be aware of your “impulses”. The things you are driven to do without even thinking of them, the habits and instincts.

But neither of you have actually achieved that, controlling your impulses. Impulse control is one of the most basic features of a successful, healthy and peaceful person. If you didn’t have it as a child then you have to do an immense amount of work to have impulse control as an adult. The really good thing is once you have your lives will change very much for the better.

Even if the two of you stay apart you will both greatly benefit from reading (1) Awareness (Anthony de Mello), he will teach you how to become aware of your impulse that drive you to do what you do and the effect your impulses have on yourself and those around you. (2) Buy books on boundaries. Both of you have really bad, very weak boundaries. (3) Emotional Intelligence (Daniel Goleman). His book has a great section on impulse control and the importance of it.


You two would be crazy not to take something positive out of your relationship. The wise person ensures that something is “personal growth”. These are painful lessons and again the wise person looks to learn from their pain and grow with it. If you don’t do that then your life is oh so predictable in that the two of you will just repeat the same mistakes over and over again no matter where you are, who you are with or how old you are.

Of course it goes without saying that if you do stay together unless you learn and grow from all this sometime in the future you will go through the whole lot again.



Take it from me. Love like you have between the two of you does not grow on trees. You will never find another love like the one you have right now. It will never happen because there is not another Mr RD or Mrs RD on the planet. Those people just don’t exist. Plus separation and divorce is by no means a walk through the park most especially when that love is still there in you but you’ve left it behind because it hurt too much. Read those books and learn how to respect and not abuse one another and most of all learn how not to hurt one another.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I can't do it, and she can't do it. It's been blatantly obvious... we're not talking anymore either except for serious discussions in regards to our seperation. Thanks AFEH... but, I think it's time to move on. Either way though, don't know about her, but this has been a learning experience.


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

Personally I think it is better for your dear daughter for you both to part ways. You dont want her to grow up and think that this is a normal marriage, and that she will take abuse from her spouse, mental abuse. Yeas I think you both mentally abuse each other. I think you are both incredibly immature, and will benifit with some time to grow up and define what real love is. through all this, remember your daughter will emulate her parents.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

AFEH,

*>>Our boundaries are there not only to protect ourselves from others’ abusive behaviours, they are also there to protect others from our own potentially abusive behaviours<<*

This should be framed and put above the mantle in homes of people who find themselves fighting like 2 year olds when they THOUGHT they were grown-ups.

Of course, there are 2 sides to every story. Personally, I've been called a vicious abuser by my spouse. Yet, she freely admits I've never struck her.

I cannot say the same in reverse.

I have engaged in verbally abusive behavior. I have engaged in blameshifting and reacted out of anger. At times, I've surprised myself with the level of hostility.

Had proper boundaries been enforced - by me - from the get go, I would never have done those things. NEVER

My wife wants to know about things she's done that haven't been "nice". Frankly, I don't think it's very nice to lie in wait in the night shadows only to emerge and strike your spouse in the face.

That still wasn't enough for me to call the authorities.

Only when she turned her profane mouth on my daughter did that call get made. My daughter was merely trying to protect both of us. She became a target for my wife's out of control anger. The anger she refuses to fix. The anger I can barely get her to admit is a problem.

Yes, the same anger that is not only wrecking her life, but has wrecked the life of her oldest daughter and WILL wreck the lives of her 2 younger children.

Am I the guy to fix all of that?

I can safely say that I am not.

There is one person who can fix it. One person out of 300 million in the United States.

That's the person that refuses to do it.

AND... it's my fault.

Can't say I'm surprised.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad,
Hopefully we all live and learn. We all experience joy and happiness. But our growth is in the main initiated by our pain. As someone here said it’s akin to tearing a muscle when we exercise it heavily which then grows stronger.

I was never going to continue growing while my wife was trashing my boundaries. That would have kept as locked in as the teenagers we once were together so very long ago way into our seventies and maybe eighties. That elderly couple bickering like two immature children. I could literally see it happening and I was afraid of it. It’s a pity because in between times we had exceptionally joyful and happy times.

Sometimes boundary enforcement means no contact ever again. I’m lucky and very blessed as I have no dependent children.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bob

I love my wife so much so that I used to settle for whatever crumbs of love she could spare for me. 

Her need for other men in her life is a big problem. One night we were getting ready for bed and an ex was texting her right in front of me. And this is no platonic friend he WANTED HER - and had every reason to believe she wanted him. She had promised she would cut off contact with this man, but like everything else she didn't.

Looking back I'm seeing now how mean she really was to me.

"Live with it" was the consistent message.



AFEH said:


> Conrad,
> Hopefully we all live and learn. We all experience joy and happiness. But our growth is in the main initiated by our pain. As someone here said it’s akin to tearing a muscle when we exercise it heavily which then grows stronger.
> 
> I was never going to continue growing while my wife was trashing my boundaries. That would have kept as locked in as the teenagers we once were together so very long ago way into our seventies and maybe eighties. That elderly couple bickering like two immature children. I could literally see it happening and I was afraid of it. It’s a pity because in between times we had exceptionally joyful and happy times.
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Bob
> 
> I love my wife so much so that I used to settle for whatever crumbs of love she could spare for me.
> 
> ...


Sometimes us men can be really stupid. I mean Really Stupid.


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