# Living with a ghost.



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

As alot of you know my H had an EA that lasted for a year. Has been NC since May 8th. The problem is he worked with her. Basically spent more time with her than me for a year. 

So here's my problem, I know he's got her in his head. Things that remind him of her. So long story short I feel like Im living with a ghost. Like things are reminding him of her, things remind me of her. Its like there are 3 people in this marriage. 

He never talks about her. He never hints at thinking about her but we all know its there. What do you guys who have gone thru this do to help with the 'ghost effect'?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sounds as if this could be more in your head than in reality, you are trying to be a mind reader instead of communicating

if your WH is doing NC and it's verified, being transparent and showing remorse then it's either insecurity due to the betrayal or an indication that you are not rebonding enough. Are you spending 15 hours a week of one on one time alone?


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> As alot of you know my H had an EA that lasted for a year. Has been NC since May 8th. The problem is he worked with her. Basically spent more time with her than me for a year.
> 
> So here's my problem, I know he's got her in his head. Things that remind him of her. So long story short I feel like Im living with a ghost. Like things are reminding him of her, things remind me of her. Its like there are 3 people in this marriage.
> 
> He never talks about her. He never hints at thinking about her but we all know its there. What do you guys who have gone thru this do to help with the 'ghost effect'?


Exorcism. No, seriously. Both of you are acting like this POSOW is special. She is a homewrecker. By dwelling on her, you still give her power over your marriage. Stop it.

Talk about her. Go ahead. Say your peace. Expose her for what she is until your WS sees what a pathetic creature she was. I assume your WS is remembering the "good times"  You need to snap him out of it by exposing the whole darn thing and dealing with what she did to your marriage. Only then, can you move on without either one of you giving her a second thought. She is not worthy.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I understand what you are saying...I can only hope with time that that feeling will fade...those triggers will go away.

It is hard because they chose to bring a third person into the marriage and now you are living with the reprucussions of that...the say that the WS mourns for/misses the AP after...I hate that! 

If H and I are having a moment where we are kind of bickering at each other I will think is he thinking about how his conversations were with his EA..nice and flirty and fun! Those are thoughts I never thought of before, and now.....


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Exorcism. No, seriously. Both of you are acting like this POSOW is special. She is a homewrecker. By dwelling on her, you still give her power over your marriage. Stop it.
> 
> Talk about her. Go ahead. Say your peace. Expose her for what she is until your WS sees what a pathetic creature she was. I assume your WS is remembering the "good times"  You need to snap him out of it by exposing the whole darn thing and dealing with what she did to your marriage. Only then, can you move on without either one of you giving her a second thought. She is not worthy.


Love it...

So true!

I think sometimes we tend to do that..put the AP up on a pedestal but yet when you think about it they are pathetic and desperate..and there must be something wrong with someone inside who knows someone is married yet continues to pursue them.


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

You live with this by becoming a stronger you. For years my wife's favorite movie was "Bridges of ******* County." She acted as if I would not understand what that meant. Finally, I agreed to watch it with her so she could explain her point of view. Afterward, I vomited, and the next day I felt like I had been hit by a truck. I think she finally understood what it meant to me. With a lot of work, I have evolved to a state where that would no longer happen. I know that I could go on with or without her; relationships are one of the things in life that change and sometimes end. She knows that I view us in that light also. That's where we are.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> As alot of you know my H had an EA that lasted for a year. Has been NC since May 8th. The problem is he worked with her. Basically spent more time with her than me for a year.
> 
> So here's my problem, I know he's got her in his head. Things that remind him of her. So long story short I feel like Im living with a ghost. Like things are reminding him of her, things remind me of her. Its like there are 3 people in this marriage.
> 
> He never talks about her. He never hints at thinking about her but we all know its there. What do you guys who have gone thru this do to help with the 'ghost effect'?


I think only time can help. 

IMO, you are right, too. For a year my STBEH was closer to the OW than to me. He spent more time with her and texted emailed called almost constantly. 

He never called me that much while dating or engaged. 

The technology was not there. Still, he only called once a night not ten times a day. 

So why the need to text email and call so much with her. 

When we were trying to reconcile, each time he was interested in sex, I imagined he was thinking of her. 

It's a sad place to be. And you are of course right about him thinking about her on occasion. That's a given. You think about her, and don't you sometimes think about past boyfriends that you did not even date very long?

Wishing you the best, and your spouse does seem to be trying.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

And he doesn't work with her anymore, right?


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Talk about her. Go ahead. Say your peace. Expose her for what she is until your WS sees what a pathetic creature she was. I assume your WS is remembering the "good times"  You need to snap him out of it by exposing the whole darn thing and dealing with what she did to your marriage. Only then, can you move on without either one of you giving her a second thought. She is not worthy.


I agree. Talk about what a cheap lying backstabbing 'ho the OW is. 

I did this and I truly believe that this is why my spouse is no longer interested in her despite her constant attempts to rekindle now that she knows we are separated. 

I pointed out how she neglected her four children to have sex. Hired a detective to ensure her spouse wasn't a cheat like her. (cheaters hate to be cheated on) Was stabbing her poor faithful, hardworking husband in the back, hid from him when he wanted sex by going out or talking on the phone. Was too easily bored and too stupid to occupy her free time with something productive.

Pointed out that her homemade sex videos of herself she sent to him were demented and bizarre.

Pointed out that her emails suggested she was hoping to get pregnant again, even though they did not directly say this. 

I pointed out all her flaws and he is intelligent enough to know I am right.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

As AlmostRecovered said : more in your mind. 

Long drawn EA take longer to fade away. With NC, and complete transparency, trust will set in.


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

...I'll present the other view of this if I may.......I am in a similar situation as canttrustu's husband.......I had a very inappropriate friendship, and made her (and trying to fix all of her many problems) a higher priority than my own family. It was a very involved mess, but did not involve a lot of the issues of "true love" and "sexual attraction" that are part of most EAs......but I definitely was waaaay too fond of her, and I got too used to the good feelings from feeling useful to her.

I broke it off with her and went NC about a year ago.......was tough at first, but it was the right thing to do. I still many times think of her, and trigger badly when passing by where she works or lives. Once I was past my personal fog, I realized the reality of me and her, and how poorly we both acted in reality. I definitely took her off of the pedestal I had placed her on. My thoughts now revolve around trying to understand what happened and why, and how something that I thought was a good/safe friendship turned into such a mess. My thoughts always involve a lot of self criticism for the many bad decisions I made during that time period.

Long story short.....he probably does not need you saying what his EA partner is like.......he already knows and is beating himself up over how things went....if anything......constantly bashing her might bring back some feelings of needing to defend her, if not out loud, at least in his head. Not the direction you need to take.

Sure there is a ghost.......and always will be some residual of that.....but he made his decision to make his marriage to you his priority. He will work his way thru his feelings (past tense mostly) and figure his actions out......over time, there will be less and less of that. 

But you should bash her.....just do it here to us at TAM 

She deserves the bashing (like my young friend does to some extent) but him hearing it from you could be very counterproductive at this point in your R...good luck


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

who you gonna call?


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Good, onemoreguy,
You were honest.

In retrospect, could you find out how you let the mess become a monster? What made the monster grow?


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

highwood said:


> I understand what you are saying...I can only hope with time that that feeling will fade...those triggers will go away.
> 
> It is hard because they chose to bring a third person into the marriage and now you are living with the reprucussions of that...the say that the WS mourns for/misses the AP after...I hate that!
> 
> If H and I are having a moment where we are kind of bickering at each other I will think is he thinking about how his conversations were with his EA..nice and flirty and fun! Those are thoughts I never thought of before, and now.....


I still feel this way too sometimes. Upon reading this, I just remembered how he said that she was moody - yes, moody - so she was moody and he put up with it and was going to leave me for that...anyway - makes no sense. I think it is just a lingering pain from being second choice for awhile as they are in their "fog".

Before last DD, I felt like I was living in her shadow - and I was right - they had resumed contact via email/text/phone and anytime WH and I got into an arguement, it was her he turned to. Kinda of sick. I think what turned his lightbulb on most recently was when I asked my 4 pages of questions, and he said that she told him once that she didn't have a father around growing up and she turned out ok....and that she wanted him to have a reverse vasectomy.....ok. If not at any other time in his fog he should have run, that should have been it.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Long story short.....he probably does not need you saying what his EA partner is like.......he already knows and is beating himself up over how things went....if anything......constantly bashing her might bring back some feelings of needing to defend her, if not out loud, at least in his head. Not the direction you need to take.


This paragraphs concerns me. 

If you really feel that pointing out your OWs true flaws, will bring up the need to defend her in you, then you may not be over the Affair. 

It sounds as if you are not out of the fog, if in any way shape or form you think at this point you can defend her. 

How do you seriously defend a women who has no compunction about dating a married man. 

You are also talking about the cheating spouses needs. That seems self absorbed, given you were the wayward.

Can't trust needs to worry about her needs now. 

Her spouse already got his needs met and now he has a faithful wife who is trying hard to save her marriage. 

She doesn't need to coddle him anymore, IMO.

I bet there were plenty of things in the marriage that were not going well for her, yet she chose to remain faithful.


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Good, onemoreguy,
> You were honest.
> 
> In retrospect, could you find out how you let the mess become a monster? What made the monster grow?


...you want a thesis version......or the short one (which will still be way too long) 

me - 56, undiagnosed PTSD from childhood (father's viscous violent anger), extreme low self esteem....leading to typical example of "nice guy" who only has self value from helping others (and hoping to be loved in return)

her - half my age with 9 year old son, low self esteem, shopped around as a sex toy by her ex husband, and living with a guy who was one of the guys who got hooked up with her by ex. Life in financial ruin, ready to be kicked out of her house and was scared to tell anyone of the issues (she had been working both a full time and part time job to qualify for the house on her own, but later lost PT job and cut to 5 hours a week on other job) Got full time job 6 months later.

Had a common interest with both her and her live-in guy thru a type of high performance car I own, and she and ex once owned. Friendship got a bit closer with both her and live-in guy, and I finally figured out financial issue since I am touchy feelly about stuff, and I drug it out of her. Her live-in guy is a type to spend every dollar available and then some, and does not worry about the future or anyone else's problems as long as his life is not disrupted.......he had no clue of financial mess and was doing his best to not see any problems.....

anyway, I stepped in to save her from foreclosure......ended up having to do that a few more times in much smaller fashion luckily. Lots of time spent together trying to deal with the financial mess, budgeting, garnishing creditors, etc....mostly done without anyone else knowing or being involved. Kept pushing her to get live-in guy involved since he was part of the problem, but it took about 6 months for this to happen. Many many lunches and get togethers to just talk and see how life was going......lots of secrecy and hidden stuff. Some flirting back and forth at times.......but nothing physical to speak of. We really were quite fond of each other, and if ages were closer and circumstances different (mainly me not married) it could have gone south very quickly.

now, the really short version of how this evolved so quickly

1. myself needing to help others to feel self esteem
2. not staying within the proper boundaries for a friendship, and me trying to fix in another's life 
3. Starting medication for non hyperactive adhd; drug does relieve symptoms but also has a heavy dopamine impact on areas of brain that control emotions, etc It made it way too easy for me to overly care about this young lady and what she was going thru
4. Too much time together, and too much secrecy......it was kinda like developing a dating relationship without the sex.

this went on over a two year period, so this may not have come out in a very clear fashion.....I have tried to keep a type of notepad of thoughts on my cell phone, but that would be several pages of stuff to wade thru......I hope this helps a bit, but I know all situations differ.


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> This paragraphs concerns me.
> 
> If you really feel that pointing out your OWs true flaws, will bring up the need to defend her in you, then you may not be over the Affair.
> 
> ...


...I am a very pragmatic guy in real life........to start with, there had to be some good qualities to the OW for him to be attracted to her, initially as a friend most likely. No one on this earth is all good or bad. I am only saying that once R starts in earnest, then going back and bashing on the OW may bring some of those thoughts along. Canttrustu has a perfect right to her feelings about the OW....how she deals with them is what I am trying to speak to. If she has already made it clear to her husband how she views the OW, it serves no purpose to her R to do it over and over if "other ways" of bashing her, or dealing with her ghost, are available, such as posting here.

As for me being in the "fog"....maybe you are right, or maybe it is just my view on the world showing thru.......my young friend is not perfect, nor is she evil, and neither am I.......my wife bashing her as the most evil thing to exist will do nothing to convince me of that, and will just be one more time that she will be on my mind. I also know that presenting a dissenting view, since I can be called a WS, leaves me open to criticism from a lot of hurt BS, but I try to post from a perspective of caring........I don't ask you to like me or what I have done, and don't expect you or anyone to roll over and mindlessly agree with me....but I do request that you take down any defenses and see if there is anything in my posts that may be of use to your situation or others.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> And he doesn't work with her anymore, right?


Right. Thank GOD! Thats the closest to insane Ive ever been. What a long long year!


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I think what you are saying happens with most of us BS's. It is a matter of time for these things to settle in your mind. Our MC has stressed with me that I should not build up the other person. In most cases our WS's trade down not just in looks but in substance as well.

This is a lot about the thought process of a BS then the reality of what it really is. In saying that I am guilty of these thoughts as well.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

mahike said:


> I think what you are saying happens with most of us BS's. It is a matter of time for these things to settle in your mind. Our MC has stressed with me that I should not build up the other person. In most cases our WS's trade down not just in looks but in substance as well.
> 
> This is a lot about the thought process of a BS then the reality of what it really is. In saying that I am guilty of these thoughts as well.


OH I absolutely KNOW its more in my head than his. I believe that more than anything. My problem is - How the hell do I rid MYSELF of her??? I mean yes, he's got memories of her but I dont think he's pining for her. When he does speak of her its rarely good. He doesnt dog her he just says the truth. He has said he does have a few things that remind him of her but they are just crap. Nothing substantial or earthshattering. 

I know this is MY problem. Im asking what to do about it???/


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ...I am a very pragmatic guy in real life........to start with, there had to be some good qualities to the OW for him to be attracted to her, initially as a friend most likely. No one on this earth is all good or bad. I am only saying that once R starts in earnest, then going back and bashing on the OW may bring some of those thoughts along. Canttrustu has a perfect right to her feelings about the OW....how she deals with them is what I am trying to speak to. If she has already made it clear to her husband how she views the OW, it serves no purpose to her R to do it over and over if "other ways" of bashing her, or dealing with her ghost, are available, such as posting here.
> 
> As for me being in the "fog"....maybe you are right, or maybe it is just my view on the world showing thru.......my young friend is not perfect, nor is she evil, and neither am I.......my wife bashing her as the most evil thing to exist will do nothing to convince me of that, and will just be one more time that she will be on my mind. I also know that presenting a dissenting view, since I can be called a WS, leaves me open to criticism from a lot of hurt BS, but I try to post from a perspective of caring........I don't ask you to like me or what I have done, and don't expect you or anyone to roll over and mindlessly agree with me....but I do request that you take down any defenses and see if there is anything in my posts that may be of use to your situation or others.


As much as I hate to agree with you, I do. At least to the extent of saying that bashing her is not going to make or break his opinion of her and keeps her alive between us. I try not to do that. I know alot of things about her that are very negative and I have not shared them with him. This is mostly because I want him to choose me because he chooses me not because she is a piece of sh*t of a person. Know what I mean?


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> OH I absolutely KNOW its more in my head than his. I believe that more than anything. My problem is - How the hell do I rid MYSELF of her??? I mean yes, he's got memories of her but I dont think he's pining for her. When he does speak of her its rarely good. He doesnt dog her he just says the truth. He has said he does have a few things that remind him of her but they are just crap. Nothing substantial or earthshattering.
> 
> I know this is MY problem. Im asking what to do about it???/


I think the problem with such questions is that there is no pat answer. 

Everyone responds differently. 

It's like a death. Some people get over it in 3 months some a year some five, some never....well, you get my point. 

The sad fact is that when a spouse brings a third party into the marriage, the ghost of that third party lingers long after their body is gone. 

Sad thing.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I think the problem with such questions is that there is no pat answer.
> 
> Everyone responds differently.
> 
> ...


unfortunately this is true. Im just looking for her to make her exit from my head ASAP....I cant give him a labotomy on the part of his brain he has her stored in but I'd like to. IF only I could live in rainbow and puppydog land too.....


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ...I am a very pragmatic guy in real life........to start with, there had to be some good qualities to the OW for him to be attracted to her, initially as a friend most likely. No one on this earth is all good or bad.


I agree with you, and that is why they still think about them, and that fond feeling they felt while in their fog.

Nothing wrong with pointing out their faults, though. It shows what a poor choice they made and how unrealistic their fog was, and IMO, that was important to me, even though I chose to file.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> unfortunately this is true. Im just looking for her to make her exit from my head ASAP....I cant give him a labotomy on the part of his brain he has her stored in but I'd like to IF only I could live in rainbow and puppydog land too.....


I agree. 

I have filed and I still can't get the OW out of my head. 

I would like to though.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I have filed and I still can't get the OW out of my head.
> 
> I would like to though.


As Ive said before 'its the gift that just keeps on giving'......


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> As much as I hate to agree with you, I do. At least to the extent of saying that bashing her is not going to make or break his opinion of her and keeps her alive between us. I try not to do that. I know alot of things about her that are very negative and I have not shared them with him. This is mostly because I want him to choose me because he chooses me not because she is a peice of sh*t of a person. Know what I mean?


...I do know what you mean actually.....and am glad that you came here to vent. It is a tough situation you are in.......like trying to make your way thru a minefield that someone else put in your way.......it IS unfair.........in an ideal world all the effort and suffering should be on the ones who caused the mess.

Maybe it will help to remember that your husband chose the real prize....YOU! I have been lurking around for quite a while, and was following your original thread all along......I remember the tears in my ears when I saw that your marriage was coming back together.......and yes, I am somewhat of an overly emotional old guy...


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> .
> 
> Maybe it will help to remember that your husband chose the real prize....YOU! I have been lurking around for quite a while, and was following your original thread all along......I remember the tears in my ears when I saw that your marriage was coming back together.......and yes, I am somewhat of an overly emotional old guy...




Cantrusthim's husband did get the prize. 

But I think she CHOSE to stay, not that he chose her. He already chose her when they married, now the choice to stay or go is/was hers.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

canttrustu said:


> He never talks about her. He never hints at thinking about her but we all know its there. What do you guys who have gone thru this do to help with the 'ghost effect'?


 Change the life you have now so that it is a NEW life, not the one he was living while seeing her. Then he can't compare the two. Plus, you're the one now giving him exciting new days to wake up to.


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I too still feel like a "ghost" haunts our marriage. My spouse has a strictly online EA and it didn't follow a path of beginning, peak, ending" that some do because it was so short in duration, basically it was just ramping up really good ( longing, obsession, starting to talk voice chat) when I busted him and then "poof" it ended. Probably with a lot of "discoveries" still hanging. 

My spouse still saw her as interesting and it was _affair_ interuptus_ as someone said to me she could be forever frozen in time as the one who got away. Most affairs have a start, middle, fizzle, then eventually die away as the newness wears off which I think helps give the WS a chance to see the reality through the infatuation. 

Sometimes you can feel them thinking of it...and it is haunting because we want them to have horrible thoughts of that time because it was our personal hell- and it doesn't seem fair that their perception of that time frame (their fantasy,our agony)should have any fond memories within.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> OH I absolutely KNOW its more in my head than his. I believe that more than anything. My problem is - How the hell do I rid MYSELF of her??? I mean yes, he's got memories of her but I dont think he's pining for her. When he does speak of her its rarely good. He doesnt dog her he just says the truth. He has said he does have a few things that remind him of her but they are just crap. Nothing substantial or earthshattering.
> 
> I know this is MY problem. Im asking what to do about it???/


Probably this will be naive, but I think there comes a point for many people when, after you've been in the fight of your life, you just say you've done everything you can, you've given it your best & it's time to let things make their own way forward. You simply take a deep breath and give yourself a break. I've felt this enough in life, in personal relationships as well as facing serious illness.

So, you've fought long and hard & things appear to be healing. Maybe you can grant yourself a well-deserved pass from the worry.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ...I do know what you mean actually.....and am glad that you came here to vent. It is a tough situation you are in.......like trying to make your way thru a minefield that someone else put in your way.......it IS unfair.........in an ideal world all the effort and suffering should be on the ones who caused the mess.
> 
> Maybe it will help to remember that your husband chose the real prize....YOU! I have been lurking around for quite a while, and was following your original thread all along......I remember the tears in my ears when I saw that your marriage was coming back together.......and yes, I am somewhat of an overly emotional old guy...


Aww. Thank you. Its always good to know people are pulling for you. It was a long haul as you know, if you were reading my thread. A few times I wasnt sure I had it in me to push on but Im glad I did. Its not been smooth sailing but Im happier than I'd be without him-that is ONE thing Im SURE of. I think the rest can/will fall into place over time. It just helps to spill it to my TAM friends so I can get it off my chest and not onto his chest.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Probably this will be naive, but I think there comes a point for many people when, after you've been in the fight of your life, you just say you've done everything you can, you've given it your best & it's time to let things make their own way forward. You simply take a deep breath and give yourself a break. I've felt this enough in life, in personal relationships as well as facing serious illness.
> 
> So, you've fought long and hard & things appear to be healing. Maybe you can grant yourself a well-deserved pass from the worry.


you know its funny- as you know I just told Elly that this is the fight of her life and to 'buckle in'. Hopefully I can start to loosen the straps a bit soon. Thanks for the encouragement. And theres alot of wisdom in your advice. Just gotta get my head around it all.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> you know its funny- as you know I just told Elly that this is the fight of her life and to 'buckle in'. Hopefully I can start to loosen the straps a bit soon. Thanks for the encouragement. And theres alot of wisdom in your advice. Just gotta get my head around it all.


And poor Elly can't rest now. She has to stay hypervigilant

(I remember a time years ago when I was fighting a bad illness & everybody kept urging me to stay positive, to not give in, to never give up hope. And I was so...exhausted. I saw a little saying on a coffee cup that went, "I feel so much better now that I've given up hope." And it was so funny and so true. There's a lot of stress in the vigilance.)


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> There's a lot of stress in the vigilance.


Truer words have never been spoken...


----------

