# Look at this email...



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

My wife and I split in 2014. She said she was unhappy but found out she was unfaithful. When we were married, her daughter was awful...to everyone...me, my wife, her brothers...she said very mean things to me. She was angry that she didn't get a big student loan because I married her mom. Had her mom have been single, she would have received more money...she despised me for marrying her mom...but her abusive real dad caused her to hate all men...she was truly a hellion and an un-empathetic, cruel, mean teenager...I was with my wife for 9 years...the daughter was 12 when I moved in/married my wife.

I just found an old email I wrote to my wife in 2012 about how I couldn't take it anymore...her other teenage son was also disrespectful, and the entire 9 years was stressful as there wasn't a week where there was no crisis or dilemma with the kids. I tried to discipline a bit, but my wife was never on my team. She let everything go and nothing was ever accomplished..it was the same with our marriage...she swept everything under the rug and forgot about it...no matter what the issue.

In this email I mention leaving. I was going to get an apartment for a month or so to alleviate the stress at home. Please read my email to her and voice your comments...was it harsh...too much...can you take anything away from it and maybe give me a character dissection?...I'm open to all opinions...thanks.

In no way do I blame you for the way that I feel. You’ve done your
utmost as a mother to try and change her, and I see that, and respect that.
You’re not the kind of person to use “tough love”, and in ways, that’s good.
Your daughter is a cancer to the entire family, and though that might hurt,
I’m afraid it’s true. I love our household, and our family. I feel at home
there, something I didn’t feel with my ex-wife. I cherish all the moments we
> have together…and I mean cherish, ‘cause we’re both so busy, and I wish I
> could show you much I love and respect you…it’s unfathomable.
> 
> This isn’t a “me or her” situation, and I don’t expect you to choose, and if
> you did, I can understand choosing your child. I honestly feel that it’s not
> fair to Bre., who is already suffering from a uncomfortable situation at his
> dad’s, and not fair to Bra. either, to live in a second household with a
> miserable father figure…it’s just not fair, and I don’t want to pollute them
> anymore than they have been. When I said I love them, I know it’s weird, but I
> do. I’m concerned about their wellbeing, how they do in school, and where
> they’re going in life…why do you think I keep looking for jobs for
> Braeden…’cause I like the little ******…LOL. You have to be there for
> them…bottom line, but if I leave for a while, away from her, things might be
> better for all, without me going around miserable and grumpy and taking it out
> on them, just because of your daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I don’t like her, I can’t be cruel. I get her food when we take it
> home, I’ve edited her work, and even talked to her when she asked me
> questions. But, to dislike me because I decided to enter the family because I
> love you doesn’t sit well with me. She has no conscience, or concern for
> others, or ability to realize how to better herself or help any situation that
> is in turmoil. She’s all about herself, and I’m not that kind of person. I
> have a hard time sharing a household with someone who is the spitting image of
> Walter.
> 
> You’ve talked to her a million times, and counseling and meds don’t help. I’m
> sorry that you have a daughter like that. It seems you can’t escape the
> persona of Walter.
> 
> 
> 
> Just know that I love you, and I don’t want our marriage to dissolve. I want
> to die married to you, because you are the best person I’ve ever known by far.
> 
> 
> 
> I love you
> 
> 
> 
>


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Why? Why are you digging this up now?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds like you were kissing up to her while practically begging her to be a real mother. Women don't like weak men. Sometimes they start to feel entitled to cheat on them.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I delete all of my emails on the last day of the year, and this was in a separate folder I just found...It just made me wonder if I was wrong in sending this, even back then. Just want some reflection on this email since it kind of made me think if I was too harsh. Nothing to do with her, but amore about a character reveal about me, so I wanted to share...


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I have read it...yes. This email is from 2012.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Learn from it, apply what you learned, then throw it away and dwell on it no more. I remember your ordeal well. Yes, you made a lot of mistakes, but no more than anyone else did going through what you went through. 

It's all over Deg. Don't dwell on the past. You are smarter and wiser now and you will know how to stick up for yourself in the future.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Why do you care? Calling her daughter a cancer on the marriage?...... Lol. Sounds like you have this woman far more credit for being a great person than she deserved. But I'm paying close attention, because I'm considering marrying a woman with two young girls......

I still don't understand why your mind is filled with such concern about this. What you wrote was true from your point of view at the time. Nothing wrong with being clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I was clear...yes. I felt it being a losing battle. I tried hard to be a good step dad, but it was 4 against 1...always. I'm just trying to see if I was actually doomed even back then. Hindsight is always 20/20, and I found it interesting that even back then I had gut feelings...if not about my ex, then about the entire dichotomy of my situation...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IMO, if you had been MORE upfront - I don't like the way you're raising your children and I can't invest in a relationship this fraught with danger of blowing up over out-of-control kids - she might have come to respect you, admire you, and listen to you. Thus the NMMNG reference.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I wish I read NMMNG then...I would discipline the kids, or try to, up front, but I would also vent my issues to my wife one on one, to which she replied with "don't stress me out" or "don't guilt me"...I suppose I put her in the middle and she was tired of it...she just couldn't be stern with them no matter what, even after disrespecting us both, telling mom to f off and paying no heed to any of the rules in the house. Funny, as soon as two of them left the house on their own, I was history...maybe I was a rented step dad for 9 years...actually, pretty sure I was.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

deg20 said:


> I wish I read NMMNG then...I would discipline the kids, or try to, up front, but I would also vent my issues to my wife one on one, to which she replied with "don't stress me out" or "don't guilt me"...I suppose I put her in the middle and she was tired of it...she just couldn't be stern with them no matter what, even after disrespecting us both, telling mom to f off and paying no heed to any of the rules in the house. Funny, as soon as two of them left the house on their own, I was history...maybe I was a rented step dad for 9 years...actually, pretty sure I was.


My brothers step kids have always been disrespect to put it mildly. He raised them as his own and the kids were young when they moved in together. The kids are now in there mid 20'a and still walk all over the mom. 

The problem he always has in trying to disipline them was she would start yelling they aren't "his kids" so he apparently couldn't have a true saying on how they were raised in her head. She wanted/wants to be buddies with her children, not there mother and frankly all the kids are a mess and one in jail already and another headed for it. Both of the biological father's were completely out of the picture and hadn't seen the kids since they were toddlers.

My brother heard all the same lines as you did and it's all really just denial on the moms part. They had 2 kids together and I'm convinced the day the youngest turns 18 she will leave. Rent a dad sums it up nicely. 

Looking back in your situation you can play the woulda/coulda/shoulda game but most likely any tactic would have come to the same result since one party never was willing to work on the problem.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Well said Honcho...many people told me it was a losing scenario. She, too, wanted to have conflict free parenting...even after she would have an argument with them, she would act like nothing happened and be nice to them in no time. She is a people pleaser and hates conflict. She shuts down or avoids it, and it was the same way in dealing with our issues.

I felt and was so disrespected by all of them, it's sickening...and I went all in on this marriage/family...

I regret not leaving her, especially early on, but I wanted to fix things all the while and hope it worked out...it actually got worse near the end, when the kids' crises took over...daughters' depression, son's living on his own with no money so mom is buying him groceries and paying his car insurance ( which she confessed after we split, as I told her not too and she lied to me at the time saying she wasn't )...

Robbed of my formative years, 33 to 43 because I succumbed to a situation I thought I could adapt to or enhance...what a fool I was!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

deg20 said:


> I wish I read NMMNG then...I would discipline the kids, or try to, up front, but I would also vent my issues to my wife one on one, to which she replied with "don't stress me out" or "don't guilt me"...I suppose I put her in the middle and she was tired of it...she just couldn't be stern with them no matter what, even after disrespecting us both, telling mom to f off and paying no heed to any of the rules in the house. Funny, as soon as two of them left the house on their own, I was history...maybe I was a rented step dad for 9 years...actually, pretty sure I was.


This happened to my brother. The only good news is that he's rid of his horrid ex. She was considerably worse than *my *ex, which is saying a lot.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

I've never understood how we can convince ourselves that we could just walk into the lives of some kids mother (or father) and accept that kid to accept us as much as his/her mom/dad does. 

Hell no, this is not the way a child would see things. They'd see us as stealing away one of their parents at the very least, if not breaking up their family.

Why would we expect better behaviour?


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I didn't expect acceptance, at all, but I did expect minimal respect...if not as a step parent, then at the very least an adult. I knew I wouldn't be the new "dad", and didn't want to be, although their real dad was an abusive controlling man to the kids and their mom, so I felt this was...I was...a step up from this idiot. I showed that I treated their mom better, and was a stable husband and partner.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

You were 200% right to write the email and WAY too nice. Good riddance to her and the brat step kids. I haven't read your story but if she allowed them to disrespect you then she was way out of line. Don't dwell on it and let this be a lesson to you for the future. Always demand respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

This was written two years before you split up but I don't think you should dig this up from the grave unless you have another goal to accomplish. Are you trying to get back together with her or mend things with the family? Because if you aren't then I wouldn't worry about this and just move on. If you are, don't bring up the past, but work towards a future and take things day by day.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Not trying to get back...we have been done for awhile. I wanted to display the email on here to get opinions and maybe some feedback if I was out of line for writing it...

BTW, she never responded to it, or addressed it, or mentioned it...ever...I did ask if she received it back then...all she said was "yes"...and that was the end of it...


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

deg, man. all of your threads are stuck in the past. 

Okay, to answer your question, your email reeked of beta-male perfume. No leadership, no masculine qualities at all. No consequences for your hopefully-ex-wife when she didn't respond to your thoughtful, heartfelt emoting. The best feedback I can give you on it is, "gee, that's sweet. Don't EVER do it again."

Might I inquire with honest interest- how are you doing in the present?

What have you changed in the last 3 months? Have you picked up any new hobbies? Have you renewed your interest in any old ones? Have you eaten at any new restaurants? Are you working out? Focusing on work? Have you taken any trips? Have you gotten in touch with any old friends, whom you lost contact with while you were trying to change the Wicked Witch into the Good Witch all those years? Did you spend Christmas with your biological family?

And as long as we're catching up on the present, let's talk about your future.

How are you going to become a better deg20 in 2016? What are you going to change for the better? More money? Less body fat? Sharper wit? More even tan? An expanded knowledge of the finer grades of Tequila through extensive taste testing? Are you going to go shoot one of God's creatures and pack your freezer with meat you killed, just to see if you could do it? A new car? A classic car, restored? 

Past mistakes are something to be learned from, not dwelt on. Stop chewing over your failures and start planning your successes, person.

So tell me what you've got in the works. I guarantee that at least 3 other TAM posters will chime in and say something like, "Deg, that's awesome. Do more stuff like this." Wouldn't you rather get that kind of feedback on your life than hashing over emails from 2012?


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes NotLikeYou...I am much better. I saved some money and i'm doing ok, and she is truly a memory...out of the picture. I want to buy a house in the spring. I bought a car in July.

There's good and bad here. I am still alone. I have had no luck dating or meeting women. All my friends...all...are married with kids...it's hard to see them. I walk on the weekends, and I put some weight on but I'm not obese. Being turned down by many women hasn't helped the ego either...but I'll get by. I'm still lonely...no family but a brother here and one far away. But I'm much better than a year ago. I haven't had contact in 4 months, and that has helped. Seeing her once a week after separation...hysterical bonding...was the worse thing I could have done, and I admit that.

I guess I do live in the past because I loved being married. I loved my house and my lifestyle. But what she became disgusted me, and it firmly sunk in in the past three months. If you read my posts and threads, she became a disgusting ***** after we split. She fvcked everyone and everything...women, married men, college kids, threesomes, and bragged to me about it...not just a few...so many she missed work because she was pissing blood from all the sex...she damaged something. Anyway, she sickens me. She is with a new guy for a year now, and it doesn't affect me anymore, because I believe she is not true to him either...I just assume that, but who cares.

I post here infrequently for a few reasons. Guys like you and Bandit bring me back to reality and assure me of how better I am without her. Sometimes I need that and I feel much better after your comments. Soon, a whole day will go by where I don't think of her once...I'm getting there. I'm no longer sad or hurt or anxious. Once in a while I miss her in my head but it fades faster now. So when I bring up something like finding that email, I post this stuff to remind me through your comments that I'm still ok. That's what I use this site for. Reassurance. Someday, I won't need it, and I think I'm almost there...


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Deg, I don't know your back story. Blended families can be very difficult. The divorce rate is highest for couples with kids from prior relationships, so you're certainly not alone in your experience.

As a woman and a mom, I'm going to give you different feedback. I think you know in your heart that the letter you wrote was a mistake. The idea of separating to get needed space isn't bad, but you chose unfortunate words, in bold below.




deg20 said:


> In no way do I blame you for the way that I feel. You’ve done your
> utmost as a mother to try and change her, and I see that, and respect that.
> You’re not the kind of person to use “tough love”, and in ways, that’s good.
> * Your daughter is a cancer to the entire family, and though that might hurt,
> ...


*

If I heard those words coming from an SO, I would know that he was not going to work out. You told her that you hated her daughter (a cancer?!? You're sorry she has a daughter like her?!?!)and you blamed your bad behavior on a teenager. 

You could have suggested living in separate houses until the daughter graduated, to help the daughter. That idea isn't bad. But, you added way too much, and what you added was really terrible. Most parents don't forget those kind of words. I would never forget them. 

You showed her that you were never going to be a fit in her family. It was the truth, yes? So it should not be surprising that she'd check out. It would have been much better if she'd just ended it then instead of cheating, but it was going to end at some point. 

(ETA: since this is TAM, I want to be extra clear. I'm not saying that you deserve to be cheated on, or that your letter excuses any of her terrible behavior, or that your letter killed the marriage. It didn't help it though! I'd guess it was just one piece of the puzzle of why things went wrong.)

I do agree with the others that this stuff needs to be filed away in the past. You were in a difficult time and unfortunately none of us magically know this stuff. You did the best you could. Learn from it, then let it rest in peace.*


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Rose Aglow...I absolutely agree with you about my wording...but what do you make of this:

My wife would frequently say to me when we were alone, "How can I not stand my own daughter?"..."How can she be so unlike me...that's not my daughter" and "I don't even like being around her, Mike"...

It seemed like she was siding with me in regards to the daughter's attitude, so I felt a letter as such would be less detrimental as she would share the same aggressions and frustrations as I did. Her daughter frustrated my wife as well. The only time my wife truly took my side was when she sat her daughter down and told her she would have to leave the house, live on her own, and get welfare...it was that bad. She was turning 19 at the time...but the daughter cried and cried and nothing became of my wife's instructions for her to leave, and nothing changed.

But I understand how my letter was scathing...and my wife swept it under the rug but maybe it was in her head all along...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think she used you financially to help raise her children. Then you became expendable. 

View your former marriage as a learning experience so you know what not to do in the future. And don't be in a hurry to replace her. Learn to be happy by yourself first.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I think she used you financially to help raise her children. Then you became expendable. 

This has been mentioned by many many people...if so, she played the game for nine years, but it makes sense now and here's why:

When she married me, each kid needed their bedroom because they were young and in their teens. As soon as 2 out of three left, one to live at his dad's and one away to college, she began renting to students...but she needed to for the mortgage as I was off the house at this point. Needles to say, I was now disposable. My income could now be replaced. I could feel the disconnect in the marriage at this point...the constant phone usage...sex stopped...she became short with me and avoided me in the house...


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

deg20,

This is typical lachrymose beta male prose. She appealed to your inner "white knight" and you were going to be important because it just feels so good to "save the day".

Codependent in spades. Have you had therapy? Without it, it's likely that every single relationship in your life turns out the same way. There is no shortage of disordered women willing to take a free ride.

In your current state, you're extremely vulnerable. Any sort of relationship with a high conflict woman at this stage puts you right back in that same situation. That's likely why you posted.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> deg20,
> 
> This is typical lachrymose beta male prose. She appealed to your inner "white knight" and you were going to be important because it just feels so good to "save the day".
> 
> ...


I did want to help and be there...be a dad...be the figure to come in and take over...the rescuer...it felt good to have a roll in my life...but it backfired...

At 44, it's likely I won't have my own kids now...it just totally floors me that someone would deceive me for that long...for that purpose and deem me disposable after my run is done...but I often doubted her genuineness and honesty towards loving me...it didn't feel right...ever. Very little intimacy but lots of sex...from day 1...but no true sentiments from her heart ever...just from me to her...that's hard to fathom but it seems that's what occurred.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

deg20 said:


> I did want to help and be there...be a dad...be the figure to come in and take over...the rescuer...it felt good to have a roll in my life...but it backfired...


That's because you have no self worth. It HAS to backfire, unless you are lucky enough to find a good woman who actually appreciates the help. But because of your low self esteem, you ATTRACT the Users.

Have you read the book Getting The Love You Want yet? It explains why we pick the people we pick, and how to avoid doing it in the future.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

deg20 said:


> Very little intimacy but lots of sex...from day 1...but no true sentiments from her heart ever...just from me to her...that's hard to fathom but it seems that's what occurred.


My DD25 is a Giver, too. She kept having so much trouble with friends...she kept picking the Users as friends, and then she'd end up destroyed like you. At the start of her junior year in college, I told her to start the classes doing ONE thing for me: don't do anything for anyone. Don't volunteer to help with homework, like she usually did. Don't offer to give people rides. Don't loan money. Stuff like that. I said, every time you feel an urge to do something for someone, bite your tongue. Then see what happens. The Users will suss you out and realize they weren't going to get anything from you, and wander away and look for someone else. Anyone left still talking to you wants to be around you just because they LIKE you. And THAT's a real friend.

She met the best friends she's ever found that way.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

deg20 said:


> I did want to help and be there...be a dad...be the figure to come in and take over...the rescuer...it felt good to have a roll in my life...but it backfired...
> 
> At 44, it's likely I won't have my own kids now...it just totally floors me that someone would deceive me for that long...for that purpose and deem me disposable after my run is done...but I often doubted her genuineness and honesty towards loving me...it didn't feel right...ever. Very little intimacy but lots of sex...from day 1...but no true sentiments from her heart ever...just from me to her...that's hard to fathom but it seems that's what occurred.


Dude - get your chin off your chest.

You get this straightened out and there will be scores of good women willing to have your offspring.

But, we're getting ahead of ourselves. What's necessary is for you to work on you - and you need plenty of work.

Every word you type literally screams she didn't love you the way you wanted to be loved. Yet, if you are looking for someone to love you that way, you'll always be disappointed. Spouses are not mind readers. They have their own emotions and their own baggage. What you are seeking is a MOTHER's love. No adult woman can give you that and still want to bang you.

Only one person can love you that way - and he's staring right back at you in the mirror waiting for you to start.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

you're so right...and sadly, one of her statements was " I was his mommy" after we split...but I see how she said that...I tried too hard to be too nice...and I do see that now...it's my nature, and I agree it's time for change...my character may have been what unwoven my marriage early on...but she was treated so poorly by her first husband...maybe I overcompensated by being too nice and accommodating..


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

deg20 said:


> Rose Aglow...I absolutely agree with you about my wording...but what do you make of this:
> 
> My wife would frequently say to me when we were alone, "How can I not stand my own daughter?"..."How can she be so unlike me...that's not my daughter" and "I don't even like being around her, Mike"...
> 
> ...


Deg, even though the daughter disappointed her mother, she is still her daughter. She hated the behaviors, but she still loved her daughter. 

My aunt has said things like "I can't believe she came from me; I can't stand her!" and basically feels that her daughter has screwed up her life and her kids' lives. Yet she still loves her daughter, almost desperately. Her daughter causes her an enormous amount of pain because of all that love.

Your letter wasn't just scathing. You showed her that did not get her struggles as a mom. You were not a safe place for her to find relief, or comfort, or understanding.

On the one hand you said you loved her kids and loved being in the household. Then you turned around and called the daughter a cancer, someone with no conscience, you blamed the daughter for your inability to control your own moods, and worst of all, you said you were sorry for your wife that she had such a horrible daughter. You wanted out of the household that you claimed to love.

I agree with the others that this mixed message also made you look weak and trustworthy. You were trying to dismantle the household that you claimed you wanted to keep, because the teen that you claim to love is a terrible, conscienceless, cancer on the family, and you can't take it. 

It's one thing to say, "listen, I've tried but I can't along with your daughter. I want to stay married, but I think it's better for everyone if I move out until she is out." It's extreme, it still isn't great, but it's something the ex-wife might have been able to understand.

The whole thing sounds like it was a mess. 

Again, what you went through is very common. It's not realistic to think that you would love her daughter in the way that she loves her daughter. Chances are, the daughter is continuing to cause misery. So I'm not trying to beat you up here. 

Just saying, in the future when dealing with anyone and their kids, keep in mind that the vast majority of parents love their kids unconditionally, regardless of whether the kids are terrible human beings or not.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Great words RoseAglow, and I truly see this as a knife wound in our marriage...I was jealous and hurt that my wife wasn't choosing me above her daughter but that was silly of me. I put my own ego in front of a mother's love for her children...quite immature and self righteous of me, and I can't defend myself at all here...deep down my wife probably struggled being in the middle of me and her kids, even though she understood how difficult they are. 

My wife had her boyfriend move in with with her before we had met, who sold his house and had two teens of his own. He lived there a year and a half and left her a month before the engagement party. She cited he said it was "because of the kids". This may be true, or it may have been infidelity on her part...I don't know, but if it was the kids, then I understand. She met me ten months after he left. I moved in in 5 months...married her 6 months after that...very fast, I know...

Anyway, maybe she should have left me in 2012 after this letter...we stayed together til 2014 and it didn't get bad until about 5 months before she pulled the pin. Again, no arguing...just distant and coldness on her part.

What did it, I think, was when her daughter who was away at college, got dumped by her boyfriend. I got angry at my wife for choosing to drive 6 hours to see her for 5 days instead of skyping her...but I was so frustrated from her ignoring me and no sex and her being in her phone ALL THE TIME that I had an outburst, magnified by my frustration. This is when the ex decided to confide in a friend of mine through text, which turned to sexting, and lead her to pick him up at the airport the night I moved out, and then had sex with him that very evening...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

deg, clearly she's just f'd up. No matter WHO she's with, she's gonna mess it up. Sadly, her kids will, too, because that's what they learned from her.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> deg, clearly she's just f'd up. No matter WHO she's with, she's gonna mess it up. Sadly, her kids will, too, because that's what they learned from her.


Turnera, I want to believe your words above, yet the kids are older and gone...daughter still a ***** and older son lives at dads now...refuses to see his mom as she declined his request to move back...he was a handful...he is 19...but still it's his mom...

Anyway, she has new guy of a year, she hangs at his cottage, and everything seems better for her now...like I was never a fit or I was a mistake...which she told me I was...

...but for some reason, I hope you are right just because...


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