# Harsh posters



## NovellaBiers

I've got several quite harsh replies from a couple of posters here and I'm wondering do these posts fall within forum guidelines, specifically the first rule:


> 1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect.
> Personal attacks, hate speech, racist or sexist statements or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated.


Here are some of their replies to me:


Interlocutor said:


> It seems you got left behind. I would be happy to retrace your steps for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





2ntnuf said:


> The sect is almost gone and it was in the former Soviet Union. Do you live near this sect? Have you experienced this probing? If so, do you need help? How can any of us help you?





2ntnuf said:


> So, you were one of the women caught masturbating and had her breast cut off? Good Lord. I can't even imagine the pain you must have suffered. There is no way I can express my sorrow for you.
> 
> These folks should be dealt with in a manner in which they can never be allowed to form again.





2ntnuf said:


> Hey, how's that masturbating problem coming? You find anyone yet?





2ntnuf said:


> I thought you were a red head with one boob? :scratchhead:





2ntnuf said:


> She's touched it.





2ntnuf said:


> She's still touching it. It takes longer.





Interlocutor said:


> The way you tried to make the point didn't work. Deal with it. The actual point is good. Maybe if someone better gifted on how to write well made it or if you were more on your game, then it would have been a nice "ah-ha" moment...
> 
> Sorry, don't take it personal.
> 
> Enjoy.





Interlocutor said:


> Cute again!





2ntnuf said:


> Why don't you two just kiss already and have sex. Get it over with.
> 
> Novella, you don't look like Rick Astley, do you? That might be a deal-breaker.
> 
> Also, grow some testicles and present your argument. Don't be shy.





2ntnuf said:


> You overrate your, "stalkability"


Could the moderators here give some insight on this? Especially the "jokes" about breast cancer/cutting off one breast are not funny at all.

Thank you.


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## PBear

That's what the "report post" and "ignore" buttons are for...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coffee Amore

You can always PM a moderator directly or hit the small triangle at the bottom of each post for the Report Post option. I would. Some of those posts cross the line.


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## manticore

Novella you may consider that I came her to pick on you (for the previous disagrements we had in another thread) but that is not the case, I want to try to peace the waters (if anything), yes the comments are kind of rude and innapropiate, but I went to read the whole conversations and it was not a one sided agression, you also repetedly called them fools or make comments about their intellect, just because you don't use profanities it does not mean that you are not insulting them.

I mean they have been here in the forum for years without incidents of that kind, and suddenly you come to the forum and they become bullies (you see where I am going, right?)

remember cordiality is a key to many doors.


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## NovellaBiers

Well, this is the first time on a forum that I've been suggested to have/offer sex to a male poster to end a debate or that I have my one breast cut of because of masturbation or breast cancer.


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## lenzi

NovellaBiers said:


> I've got several quite harsh replies from a couple of posters here and I'm wondering do these posts fall within forum guidelines


Perhaps you outta take a look at some of your own posts:



NovellaBiers said:


> You are delusional. :scratchhead:





NovellaBiers said:


> Wow, you really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you?





NovellaBiers said:


> But reading is not your strong suit I suppose...





NovellaBiers said:


> If you weren't so slow you'd realize the comment..





NovellaBiers said:


> The only one failing here is you. You could at least try because you are making a fool of yourself.


When it comes to following guidelines, you seem to fall a bit short..


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## Sandfly




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## larry.gray

I concur with Lenzi, you need to look at your own posts. I posted already that I don't think you'll last long here.


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## ScarletBegonias

Hello,Pot.


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## Ikaika

_Ku`ia ka hele a ka na`au ha`aha`a.
_
*Interpretation*: Hesitant walks the humble hearted.

*Meaning*: Those who are sensitive to others inspire respect and allegiance. Those who throw their weight around will hurt others, and eventually themselves, when enough people have been hurt.


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## NovellaBiers

lenzi said:


> Perhaps you outta take a look at some of your own posts:
> 
> When it comes to following guidelines, you seem to fall a bit short..


The first post you quoted is from December 2013 which is around the time I actually got banned and has nothing to do with these two posters.

The next four quotes are direct replies to Interlocutor after him intentionally goading for a response long enough. 

2ntnuf's insults however are completely uncalled for. Just because I am debating with someone else it doesn't give him the right to post insults referring to genitalia in addition to making harsh jokes that my breast must have been mutilated and cut off and suggesting sex with another poster.


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## Jellybeans

drerio said:


> _Ku`ia ka hele a ka na`au ha`aha`a.
> _
> *Interpretation*: Hesitant walks the humble hearted.
> 
> *Meaning*: Those who are sensitive to others inspire respect and allegiance. Those who throw their weight around will hurt others, and eventually themselves, when enough people have been hurt.


:rofl: By the way, I love all of your Hawaiian sayings in all of the threads. So fun! 

You guys are cracking me up.


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## Sandfly

NovellaBiers said:


> The next four quotes are direct replies to Interlocutor after him intentionally goading for a response long enough.
> .


So to summarise, 

it's OK for you to take the mickey, but you don't like it back.

Stop trying to make out you're the victim


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## Ikaika

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl: By the way, I love all of your Hawaiian sayings in all of the threads. So fun!
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are cracking me up.



Times like these, you just have to bring a little Aloha to TAM


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## joe kidd

Just get thicker skin. It's the internet, people behind a keyboard you will never meet. No one gets space rent free in my head. Also...there is a wonderful ignore feature available .


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## Jellybeans

drerio said:


> Times like these, you just have to bring a little Aloha to TAM


Indeed. Especially when it was only 8 degrees outside for me this morning! I'd rather be in Hawaii!


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## larry.gray

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl: By the way, I love all of your Hawaiian sayings in all of the threads. So fun!


We can look at Germain words too. The one that comes to mind is fremdschämen.


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## Jellybeans

What does that mean?


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## joe kidd

larry.gray said:


> We can look at Germain words too. The one that comes to mind is fremdschämen.


I have a few my great Grandmother used ( usually when talking about the Kaiser). ...... but a family forum is not the best place for them.


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## larry.gray

Jellybeans said:


> What does that mean?


The discomfort you feel around people who are so clueless that they are not ashamed when they should be.


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## joe kidd

larry.gray said:


> The discomfort you feel around people who are so clueless that they are not ashamed when they should be.


Yeah. You feel embarrassed for them. So much you have to look away.


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## ScarletBegonias

joe kidd said:


> Yeah. You feel embarrassed for them. So much you have to look away.


oh I hate that feeling! Happens to me constantly.That's why I can't watch that one show where the guys make each other do random funny things to unsuspecting people.


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## Jellybeans

larry.gray said:


> The discomfort you feel around people who are so clueless that they are not ashamed when they should be.


:rofl: I know this feeling very well. It's not comfortable when I experience shame for someone else who has none for themself.


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## FrenchFry

I closed the offending thread. It's too messy to sort out and I'm not here to sort out the he said she said. Especially in the Politics and Religion section.

Keep reporting and all, but seriously that section has










all over it and if things just start piling up in there...things are just getting shut down.


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## Ikaika

Aloha FrenchFry one of our TAM Kupuna


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## lenzi

NovellaBiers said:


> The first post you quoted is from December 2013 which is around the time I actually got banned and has nothing to do with these two posters.


Who gives a crap when you made those posts or who they're directed at?



NovellaBiers said:


> 2ntnuf's insults however are completely uncalled for. Just because I am debating with someone else it doesn't give him the right to post insults referring to genitalia in addition to making harsh jokes that my breast must have been mutilated and cut off and suggesting sex with another poster.


Your posts were uncalled for as well. That's why you got banned the first time. 

It really comes to this:

Here you are complaining about other people's harsh posts when you're guilty of the same transgression. 

You can't effectively defend yourself by saying "oh those posts were a month ago" or "they were directed to different people" or "they goaded me into saying it". 

Nor can you use the old "they have no right to do that!"

Maybe they do, maybe they don't, it's not your call and it doesn't validate your own harsh posts.

You're the type to say to the cop "yes I was speeding but so was everyone else, therefore I shouldn't get a ticket". Or "The other looter broke the window, I entered the building after it was almost completely cleaned out and there was one TV left so I grabbed it and you should go arrest them and let me go".

Your logic is faulty, your argument is invalid, your posts are harsh, you have nothing. 

Sorry.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

...*munches popcorn MOST appreciatively*...



Must admit I came here looking to find MY name since Mr. Blunt (tip of the hat to you, sir) said I was even MORE BLUNT than him!

Carry on! (as our Brit friends would say!)


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## CharlieParker

larry.gray said:


> I posted already that I don't think you'll last long here.


You called it.


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## lenzi

I'm going to wager a guess that the transgressions didn't earn a permanent ban.

Edited to add.. then again it was a subsequent ban and many of her posts were deleted. So perhaps that's the end of that. 

This thread is rather interesting in that it clearly demonstrates how some people can be in such self denial.


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## Conrad

lenzi said:


> I'm going to wager a guess that the transgressions didn't earn a permanent ban.
> 
> Edited to add.. then again it was a subsequent ban and many of her posts were deleted. So perhaps that's the end of that.
> 
> This thread is rather interesting in that it clearly demonstrates how some people can be in such self denial.


No different than when in a relationship.


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## Amplexor

lenzi said:


> I'm going to wager a guess that the transgressions didn't earn a permanent ban.


Pay up!


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## lenzi

Hey a guess isn't the same thing as a bet!


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## ScarletBegonias

Amplexor said:


> Pay up!


:rofl:


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## Cosmos

I saw this one coming...


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## Anon Pink

Novella got a perma ban?

Best news I've heard all week!


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## Lordhavok

She's gone? no loss


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## WyshIknew

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> ...*munches popcorn MOST appreciatively*...
> 
> 
> 
> Must admit I came here looking to find MY name since Mr. Blunt (tip of the hat to you, sir) said I was even MORE BLUNT than him!
> 
> Carry on! (as our Brit friends would say!)


I have to admit to sniggering when I read this. A thread on harsh posters and Slowly looks in to see if her name was in it. :rofl:

Disappointed?


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## 2ntnuf

My thanks to those who supported me. 

I do think that much of this was taken out of context, but that was the point of the thread, I think. It was basically to embarrass or my apology to Novella in another thread might have been accepted. It came shortly before this, when I realised she was hurt by my comment. 

Originally, I was just looking to debate in P & R. I've found it interesting, challenging and educational. I really like it, most of the time. I will, challenge the thinking of some. You can find that in my latest posts in that area. Sometimes, it comes off a little too, snarky. Sometimes, I just ask a question and it comes of snarky. There is no way to know what the reader is thinking or what will trigger them.

After this happened, I thought I'd investigate the username, "NovellaBiers". I found that it relates to a character in a novella of the series of vampire books. I forget the guy's first name, but his last name is, "Biers". He is a helper of the main or one of the main characters. His job is to seek out new recruits and trick them into coming to the main vampire and being converted. This, "Biers", character in the book, is secretly in love with the main character, but I don't believe the main vampire character is homosexual. It's a bit of a story within a story of, "unrequited love". 

Anyway, I thought that was interesting, but have no idea if it has any bearing in this case, until I thought about some of the things I said in the thread. I had no idea, at the time, how those things would be taken or that there was a connection. I truly, at that point was just, "breaking stones", with a member who I considered to be one of the better ones at breaking stones. Men may understand that term better than women, but NovellaBiers certainly seemed to understand the concept, quite well. 

She made reference to her posts as being jokes and no one was, "getting it". Hence, the ensuing, "stone breaking". I personally, thought that it was all in fun, at that point and didn't realise how much she, or possibly he was hurt. Reference my post after Novella posted the song by, "Rick Astley", which was disguised with a different title. Novella is a master at deception and drawing out weaknesses and diverting threads by comments which are as insightful as they are inflammatory. I give her/him credit for being very intelligent. 

At first, I thought NovellaBiers really did need help. I thought she was truly possibly a survivor of the sect she referenced. I know she posted a joke by Sarah Silverman, but that didn't stop me from trying to keep the tone more serious. I truly was intrigued by the thoughts and though it might be fun to read someone else's opinions. After all, P & R is for challenging inflammatory topics and discussing them.

So, at some point, after offering to help her, because at that point, I truly was not certain if she was still joking or was serious about some abusive situations she personally went through or new someone going through them, I asked if she needed help and stated that I thought it was a horrible practice. All I read was leading me to believe she wanted to be unclear to control. I didn't like that and kept reading, becoming more interested in learning about how some folks will trick others and lead conversations to disparage others.

Well, in the end, she/he just wanted to converse with Interlocutor. I truly needed to get the hell out of there, but my curiosity killed me.  I was never truly hateful intentionally, with her/him. Although, I was breaking stones with the best of them and it can be taken that way. In the last post of hers/his, I thought Novella was trying to accuse me of something that was certainly untrue, so that she/he could follow me and make it look like I was the one following her. Yes, she/he is certainly that intelligent. I then came back, and made that last remark that she/he is less than worthy of stalking and I am definitely not interested, nor ever was in doing so. 

There was a comment made by NovellaBiers about, "never letting go". That one bothered me a great deal. I don't know if that is still there. It really doesn't matter, at this point. 

In any case, I didn't apologize right away, because I didn't think there was an issue. I thought, and still do, that NovellaBiers was breaking stones for fun. I just think she/he realized she was losing a verbal sparring match and tried to turn it around so as to, "save face". 

Anyway, NovellaBiers, nor hard feelings. I apologize for hurting your feelings. That was one of the reasons I posted serious statements. I wanted to know if you were breaking stones or not. 

So, some of the other stuff, like being a redhead, was from a comment NovellaBiers made about looking like Lucille Ball, after Interlocutor made a comment. Rick Astley's hair being red in that video made me laugh and comment that way. 

The boob comment was not about someone with cancer. NovellaBiers had posted something about masturbation being a sin and some sects would actually cut off breasts or probe a penis. When she commented enough that made me realise she was breaking stones is when I added that to my comment and it had absolutely nothing to do with cancer victims. That wasn't even a part of that discussion, to my knowledge. If a post was changed to reflect her accusation, I have no idea. I haven't seen that. I do think there were some posts of her's deleted, which misrepresents the whole context of the banter.

Here is the banter in another thread, right after this P & R issue. The member, Blonde, who admitted and aplogised for taking the thread off track, was conversing with me and other members and Novella came in and made, yet another inflammatory post. You'll have to go back further in the thread to understand more about what was going on. Also, you'll have to look at Granny7's thread. I'm not sure it's around any more. It's not the one in, "private". It was one in CWI, I think or another more public area. Blonde knew I was involved in that one. You would have to notice the posting times to see why I thought NovellaBiers was just posting to be inflammatory and dig at me. I had just come from the P & R thread, not long before. 

Here are a couple of links, if you decide to look. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/6824849-post303.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/6824937-post304.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/6826601-post321.html

Anyway, NovellaBiers, whether you are a man or a woman, as your profile suggests, it makes no difference to me. I only related that so others might understand my thoughts. I have no way of confirming any of that. Your posts made me more suspicious than anything. 

So, once again, sorry I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry you were banned. I didn't turn you in. You turned yourself in with this thread, I think. Other than that, I have no idea. I wish you were more open. All three of us may have had an interesting discussion.


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## 2ntnuf

Just wanted to add something. There were no drugs or alcohol involved in any of this, for me. I don't know about anyone else.


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## Sandfly

2ntnuf, 

I decided to look over her/his posts, to see if there were any signs that s/he was reaching out, had a story to tell, wanted to engage in debate etc.

S/he started off pretty normal, but about halfway through s/he just seemed to be looking for controversy.

She had a go at Simply Amorous, which is like putting kittens in a bag and driving down to the river bank IMO.

S/he was just yanking our chains, I think it was a fella TBH.


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## Anon Pink

Sandfly said:


> 2ntnuf,
> 
> I decided to look over her/his posts, to see if there were any signs that s/he was reaching out, had a story to tell, wanted to engage in debate etc.
> 
> S/he started off pretty normal, but about halfway through s/he just seemed to be looking for controversy.
> 
> She had a go at Simply Amorous, which is like putting kittens in a bag and driving down to the river bank IMO.
> 
> S/he was just yanking our chains, I think it was a fella TBH.


2nt, don't trouble yourself. Novella subtracted from this forum, never added. I mean Sheeshe, anyone who would have a go at SA....? She had a go at me shortly after she joined. In fact I think one or two of her posts quoted above by Lenzi was from the thread in which her stubborn obtuseness first showed...as I said, good riddance to someone who could not make friends but could only argue and detract.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

WyshIknew said:


> I have to admit to sniggering when I read this. A thread on harsh posters and Slowly looks in to see if her name was in it. :rofl:
> 
> *Disappointed?*


No, relieved, I guess. 

I'm not a big one for sugar-coating, but neither am I a b1tch.

I hate to see good/decent people waffling over 'what will family/friends/society think' or 'I'm not a good person unless I put everyone else's needs first' or 'God will not love me'. 

I like to remind them that *everywhere in the civilized world, the trash goes out WEEKLY; if that's where your relationship belongs, why let it rot and fester for MORE months/years. Make the decision, take out the trash, pick yourself up and move on!*


...hey, maybe that should be my new signature!?!


.


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## Interlocutor

I saw the way s/he posted to others in this forum, not one to refrain from taking a witty shot or jab from what I observed, which didn't necessarily inspire me to be my most diplomatic... I wasn't going to be another one to be at the expense of her wit or lulz, so I just acted in the way I felt was just setting boundaries and called him/her out on a point he/she thought he/she made masterfully but didn't actually. I don't recall calling her any names nor telling her anything inappropriate. 

In fact, once I could tell it was no longer fun for him/her, s/he said s/he could care less about anything I posted, I expressed my mutual sentiment, I ceased quoting him/her completely, and s/he continued claiming that in addition to so many prior forum stalkers (lol), s/he didn't need one more (me, lol, sure). 

I apologize to you, friendly TAM people here, if I wasted some of your time or frustrated some of you in that thread.

I never knew about this thread, else I would have shared my thoughts before.

I can say confidently I have never replied harshly to friendly and polite people here, but I do retaliate (and have been banned before) when someone wants to play smart with me or other friendly posters at our expense.


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## larry.gray

Sandfly said:


> She had a go at Simply Amorous, which is like putting kittens in a bag and driving down to the river bank IMO.
> 
> S/he was just yanking our chains, I think it was a fella TBH.


If it was a dude, he's got the distorted feminist agenda down. There was a whole lot of anti-men anger for a dude.

I wondered if he/she was a former member that already got a perma ban. When you see someone come on strong like that, with no story of their own, that's often the case.


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## LongWalk

Interesting thread. It's nice that TAM is lively. Sometimes people I like bait others. It is partly style, partly aggression. Not everybody hanging out here is 100%... bring Shaggy back.


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## Coffee Amore

LongWalk said:


> Interesting thread. It's nice that TAM is lively. Sometimes people I like bait others. It is partly style, partly aggression. Not everybody hanging out here is 100%... bring Shaggy back.


I thought Shaggy wanted to be banned. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought he wanted to leave TAM, so he asked to be banned.


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## 2ntnuf

LongWalk said:


> Interesting thread. It's nice that TAM is lively. Sometimes people I like bait others. It is partly style, partly aggression. Not everybody hanging out here is 100%... bring Shaggy back.


I really liked many of his posts. I do miss him. I think CA is correct. I think he got sucked into too many of those just like I did this time. It's a learning experience. Sometimes, I have to step away from the podium.  I don't have to give my point of view.


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## 2ntnuf

> I do think that much of this was taken out of context, but *that was the point of the thread*, I think. It was basically to embarrass or my apology to Novella in another thread might have been accepted. It came shortly before this, when I realised she was hurt by my comment.


Anon, I just came back and read what I posted. I apologize for writing, "that was the point of the thread". That was incorrect. I know you didn't start that thread to start any trouble. I actually meant that was the point of that portion of the thread. I don't know how I messed that up, but somehow, I did. 

I'm sorry about that mistake.


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## Chuck71

Coffee Amore said:


> I thought Shaggy wanted to be banned. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought he wanted to leave TAM, so he asked to be banned.


but it could have been stated "under duress"


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## SimplyAmorous

lenzi said:


> *Perhaps you outta take a look at some of your own posts:
> 
> When it comes to following guidelines, you seem to fall a bit short*..


 You got her GOOOOODDDD... did your homework Lenzi... Love it... ya know...you throw attitude & insults in one's forum face....you are asking for *a Reaction*...











Sandfly said:


> *She had a go at Simply Amorous, which is like putting kittens in a bag and driving down to the river bank IMO*.


 I had to laugh reading this comment... Yeah, this person was a bit rude.... an







deliberately stirring the thread on some delicate issues .....but really....taking pop shots at me is *not* a big deal...go for it!... really there is a Lion underneath my demeanor... 

I just calm my responses (or roar) here.....Oh I am true to them....even if I am foolish enough to waste my time with some....After all.... do I want banned.... let them roar...I'll defend what needs defending... then let it lie.

Harsh disrespectful sh** stirrers lurk on every corner of the globe looking for kicks......thankfully the majority are on to them...such people inevitably bring themselves to ruin.


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## Caribbean Man

I've followed this thread ever since the OP started it and laughed to myself . I knew what would have been the outcome, because that person has three of four different screen names / identities here on TAM.They just keep reincarnating or switching usernames whenever they get banned.
I know this for sure because the syntax remains the same and the modus operandi is always the same .

They always start off posting in the ladies lounge and then progress very quickly into the Politics section.
Their first post in the politics section is usually about gay rights legislation .


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## lifeistooshort

You've really got to grow a thicker skin. There are some real a$$holes here, and there are otherwise decent people that just get po'd and lose it temporarily. Heck, someone recently compared me to a crack ho for being clear with my now hb that I wanted marriage....oh well. Just speaks poorly of that poster. Let these things go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

I lost my thick skin when I broke down and spent a few days in the hospital. I've got to grow it back. Basically, I have got to learn not to give a crap about anything or anyone. Not even what you just posted. So, even this post is too much. Isn't it? Think about it.


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## lifeistooshort

2ntnuf said:


> I lost my thick skin when I broke down and spent a few days in the hospital. I've got to grow it back. Basically, I have got to learn not to give a crap about anything or anyone. Not even what you just posted. So, even this post is too much. Isn't it? Think about it.



But it's not about not giving a crap; that's a terrible place to be. It's about realizing that it's not personal; it can't be because nobody knows you or your life. I do wish that more people here were capable of discussing, as opposed to insulting and name calling, but I guess many here just aren't in a good place for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

SimplyAmorous said:


>


What an adorable troll!


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## Theseus

SimplyAmorous said:


> You got her GOOOOODDDD... did your homework Lenzi... Love it... ya know...you throw attitude & insults in one's forum face....you are asking for *a Reaction*...


Frankly, I find this attitude, and in fact this entire thread disgusting.

So one person makes sexual jokes at a poster, and in response he/she calls him a "fool" and that's supposed to be the pot calling the kettle black? These things are equivalent?

Here's what I see. I see a cabal of regulars here ganging up on a newer member that has the gall to disagree with them. Of course this new member will not last long when everyone else is against them. It doesn't take a genius to predict that. 

I saw the exact same thing happen in the thread "my husband gets mad that I go to work functions after work hours" in general relationships forum. And that thread was deleted by a mod yesterday. 

This person (Mapper) came asking for help, a few people, who probably just glanced at her posts and didn't carefully read them, insinuated she was meeting men and trying to cheat on her husband, she (naturally) got angry at that and told them off (not with insults), and in response several regulars swarmed on her like buzzards on a dead corpse. 

I don't like it when that happens, but I'm just wired to always defend the underdog. And I like new members to stick around, even if they don't always agree with me. Crazy me.

Of course, now I run the risk of the same thing happening to me, but I have been on this and similar forums many times before, and know how to handle myself a little better. Many of the new people don't know all the "tricks" and don't know the best ways to defend themselves when attacked. 



Caribbean Man said:


> I've followed this thread ever since the OP started it and laughed to myself . I knew what would have been the outcome, because that person has three of four different screen names / identities here on TAM.They just keep reincarnating or switching usernames whenever they get banned.


I'm glad you are so sure about that, but I certainly am not.


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## Anon Pink

Theseus said:


> Frankly, I find this attitude, and in fact this entire thread disgusting.
> 
> So one person makes sexual jokes at a poster, and in response he/she calls him a "fool" and that's supposed to be the pot calling the kettle black? These things are equivalent?
> 
> Here's what I see. I see a cabal of regulars here ganging up on a newer member that has the gall to disagree with them. Of course this new member will not last long when everyone else is against them. It doesn't take a genius to predict that.
> 
> I saw the exact same thing happen in the thread "my husband gets mad that I go to work functions after work hours" in general relationships forum. And that thread was deleted by a mod yesterday.
> 
> This person (Mapper) came asking for help, a few people, who probably just glanced at her posts and didn't carefully read them, insinuated she was meeting men and trying to cheat on her husband, she (naturally) got angry at that and told them off (not with insults), and in response several regulars swarmed on her like buzzards on a dead corpse.
> 
> I don't like it when that happens, but I'm just wired to always defend the underdog. And I like new members to stick around, even if they don't always agree with me. Crazy me.
> 
> Of course, now I run the risk of the same thing happening to me, but I have been on this and similar forums many times before, and know how to handle myself a little better. Many of the new people don't know all the "tricks" and don't know the best ways to defend themselves when attacked.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you are so sure about that, but I certainly am not.



I never saw the other thread you mentioned but this thread isn't about new members being ganged up on. It was started by novella who brought new meaning to being obtuse. Deliberately dense. 

I respect how you stick up for civility and you have called me out on not being civil and I respect that. Some people just rub you the wrong way. 

But when a member is beating the dead horse of an oft used theme blindly, seeing only a work or phrase and reacting to how that triggers their own issues, THEY also need to be called out for that.

I found novella to be offensive and deliberately dense in her effort to stir the pot, not in an effort to seek understanding or even share a different POV. That other member, with whom I became uncivil, is the same. Not attempting to understand or even seek understanding but simply beating his drum and same old tired tune that is misinformed by his lack of self insight.

So, by all means, continue to insist upon civility but understand that some of us become uncivil not as a means to scare away new member with differing opinions, but due to the pot being stirred by those with an axe to grind.


----------



## Theseus

Anon Pink said:


> I found novella to be offensive and deliberately dense in her effort to stir the pot, not in an effort to seek understanding or even share a different POV.


I am only referring to what I see in this thread. And given 2ntnuf's admitted deliberate prodding, I can't blame Novella for calling him a "fool". That's pretty mild response actually. 

The only time I have ever been banned from any website is here on TAM, when I was banned once for 2 weeks for making a joke that was pretty mild compared to what I see in this thread. 



> _So, by all means, continue to insist upon civility but understand that some of us become uncivil not as a means to scare away new member with differing opinions, but due to the pot being stirred by those with an axe to grind_.


Anyway, what I really objected to here was the mocking, troll cartoons, and several members (including a moderator) practically giving each other high-fives over driving a member away. What's next? Handing out medals? 

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth because several times I have seen veterans here gang up, slyly insult an OP without openly using insults, then when that OP has enough and fires back they all say "see! I knew you were unstable". Ironically, you see this happen in marriages too, where one partner provokes another until they explode, and then that first partner can say to the world: "look I was right, I'm married to an angry person".


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I'm a regular,never been banned and I'm wondering if you have some examples of where this is happening (regulars ganging up on a new poster) Do you flag the posts as baiting or harassment? From what I've seen,the regulars typically gang up on each other in the long drawn out threads bc they rarely agree on much. Maybe things are different in CWI though...I don't often go there.


----------



## lenzi

Theseus said:


> I am only referring to what I see in this thread. And given 2ntnuf's admitted deliberate prodding, I can't blame Novella for calling him a "fool". That's pretty mild response actually.


that's like saying you know someone very well because you listened to them talk for 5 minutes.

I came across this thread, and then I went and searched through the Ops back posts before reaching the conclusion that they were far from an "innocent victim that only retaliated when ganged up on". They were a trouble maker from the start. The mods knew it, most of the seasoned posters on this thread know it, and you don't know it because, as you said you only looked at this one thread. Why not take a gander at the Ops back posts and come back with your opinion rather than take a stand of defense against a person you only know from this one thread?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Theseus said:


> I am only referring to what I see in this thread. And given 2ntnuf's admitted deliberate prodding, I can't blame Novella for calling him a "fool". That's pretty mild response actually.
> 
> The only time I have ever been banned from any website is here on TAM, when I was banned once for 2 weeks for making a joke that was pretty mild compared to what I see in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, what I really objected to here was the mocking, troll cartoons, and several members (including a moderator) practically giving each other high-fives over driving a member away. What's next? Handing out medals?
> 
> It leaves a bad taste in my mouth because several times I have seen veterans here gang up, slyly insult an OP without openly using insults, then when that OP has enough and fires back they all say "see! I knew you were unstable". Ironically, you see this happen in marriages too, where one partner provokes another until they explode, and then that first partner can say to the world: "look I was right, I'm married to an angry person".


Theseus,

Why don't you start a thread somewhere on what you'd like addressed. It seems you have valid concerns. If you start your own, you may get a whole bunch of great opinions. Are you open to that? Some won't agree with you. Is that alright? I think you could pm a moderator and ask if it's alright to do that and where it could be started.


----------



## Amplexor

lenzi said:


> I came across this thread, and then I went and searched through the Ops back posts before reaching the conclusion that they were far from an "innocent victim that only retaliated when ganged up on". They were a trouble maker from the start. The mods knew it,


Many of the OP's posts were deleted for violations. The OP had made a habit of baiting members then reporting them when she got a snarky reply. In other words she was wasting my ****ing time.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Amplexor said:


> Many of the OP's posts were deleted for violations. The OP had made a habit of baiting members then reporting them when she got a snarky reply. In other words she was wasting my ****ing time.


Well there ya go. 

'Nuff said.


----------



## Theseus

lenzi said:


> Why not take a gander at the Ops back posts and come back with your opinion rather than take a stand of defense against a person you only know from this one thread?



I did just that, looked through a few pages of posts, and I didn't see anything objectionable. But that's hardly surprising, since apparently many of the OP's posts have been deleted. Not much I can do about that since I'm not a mod.


----------



## Theseus

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm a regular,never been banned and I'm wondering if you have some examples of where this is happening (regulars ganging up on a new poster)



If you saw the "my husband gets mad that I go to work functions after work" thread in the general relationships forum, that was a perfect example (but as I said, it was deleted a couple days ago). I can find other examples, but that might take me awhile to dig them up. If I do, I'll put them here. 




2ntnuf said:


> Theseus,
> 
> Why don't you start a thread somewhere on what you'd like addressed. It seems you have valid concerns. If you start your own, you may get a whole bunch of great opinions. Are you open to that? Some won't agree with you. Is that alright? I think you could pm a moderator and ask if it's alright to do that and where it could be started.


Not a bad idea, and I probably will do that at some point although I don't see why anyone would need to ask the mods first.


----------



## larry.gray

Amplexor said:


> Many of the OP's posts were deleted for violations. The OP had made a habit of baiting members then reporting them when she got a snarky reply. In other words she was wasting my ****ing time.


Yeah well what took so dang long???? I saw many of the baits. They weren't even close to being borderline OK, and I hit report. A good 5 times at least. Most of those were ignored.


----------



## Interlocutor

Theseus...

It sounds to me you are more upset with a general observation you cite concerning the treatment of new posters vs. old than you are about Novella... Your gripe, sorry to say, does not apply to Novella AT ALL... Novella routinely nitpicked, quibbled, and misused the posts of others to achieve her own lulz. Then when the same was done with her posts, she cried foul.

I'm sure the mods do what they can and ultimately might miss something... When they do miss something, the last thing they need for their thankless job is performance evaluations by users here. I'm pretty certain that they have already been taking into account everything you cited happens here. It's not news to them I'm sure.

I know for a fact that they do a great job here since I have been banned before. lol


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Theseus said:


> *Frankly, I find this attitude, and in fact this entire thread disgusting.
> 
> So one person makes sexual jokes at a poster, and in response he/she calls him a "fool" and that's supposed to be the pot calling the kettle black? These things are equivalent?*


 I try my best to NOT be rude on this forum... it doesn't mean I don't think some unsavory thoughts behind this keyboard though...

I have never reported 1 person here in 4 yrs... maybe that makes me too tolerant even... I also go out of my way to NOT jump on new posters... I've even defended them at times...simply because *I understand *many come here in an angry frame of mind to get a RANT off their chest... I feel some tolerance is in order for that sort of thing... even with some generalizing -given their personal experience... which is screaming at the moment inside their heads.... 

I feel our responses to them.. is vital to calm that spirit down, so they can get their feet back in the ground...and reason.... after so many back & forths....one can see if this is having any effect or they just want to remain "difficult", spurring contention.


----------



## 2ntnuf

> and today my heart is broken...thank you to those who have reached out to me. Your kindness has been overwhelming. I really appreciate you.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Mrs. JA


Why is your heart broken today?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Well, you've earned respect. Own it. You deserve it. Those who don't give it, are damaged and can't find perspective, yet. They can only see through their own eyes. Sometimes, we have to see that and let them go. Someone told me once that when Jesus turned the other cheek, that meant He turned and let them see His backside as He walked away. Something to think about. Some folks aren't ready to be helped.


----------



## Philat

Mrs. John Adams said:


> just some confrontation yesterday.


You came out on top.


----------



## Philat

Thank you.  Already referred someone back to the link.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Here is something I just happened upon. I was looking for songs that would be comforting. I was inspired to post it here. I think it's worth a look. 

Lessons in my 20′s: God & Temper Tantrums. : everydaydolce.com


----------



## kristin2349

Mrs. John Adams said:


> and some just like to use others for punching bags....I get it
> 
> I like what you said...thank you



I don't like it when "harsh posters" try to use my dear MJA as a punching bag. 

And if I can't stand in front of those throwing the punches, I'll stand beside her. She is the kind of friend you'd gladly take a punch for. 

I don't understanding attacking those who tell "their truth" in an attempt to help someone in pain. 

I love The Adams Family


----------



## lifeistooshort

Mrs. John Adams said:


> and some just like to use others for punching bags....I get it
> 
> I like what you said...thank you


One thing I've always found is that even in their pain people show you who they are. I can see people here that are flat out nasty, and I'd bet that's who they were before said pain; it's not hard to see why their marriages blew up even though they don't want to hear it.

Then there are others that are in pain and maybe a little snarky, but there's not really a nasty tone in their posts (2ntnuf I put you here  ), and you can usually have a discussion with these people. These are the people I feel the worst for, because I can see them being generally decent people that were just put through the ringer. Particularly of they've behaved badly themselves and they know it, because they have a conscience and feel bad. These are the people least likely to look for a punching bag. Those that do are often miserable human beings in general.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

Mrs JA, have you also noticed that the people who are mean are also the least likely to notice or acknowledge their nastiness? Spouse was an evil b!tch and they have no part in anything. The ones that aren't nasty can usually see their own contributions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

Maybe, but you're a class act Mrs JA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

kristin2349 said:


> I don't like it when "harsh posters" try to use my dear MJA as a punching bag.
> 
> And if I can't stand in front of those throwing the punches, I'll stand beside her. She is the kind of friend you'd gladly take a punch for.
> 
> I don't understanding attacking those who tell "their truth" in an attempt to help someone in pain.
> 
> I love The Adams Family


Neither do I. I choose to stand by the Adams Family as well.


----------



## CharlieParker

I'll add a finger-snap, finger-snap, oh wait wrong Adams family, but they OK in book too.


----------



## Ikaika

My personal philosophy is that I really don't know who is at the other end - the hurts, the pain or anything else about their life. I prefer to approach each member with Aloha. And, mind you Aloha should not be mistaken for weakness, but does at least consider love as a first action.


----------



## johnAdams

You would think on this site, more people would prefer to be a Healer instead of an unhealthy, infectious person that makes themselves feel better by projecting their situation and pain on others.


----------



## Philat

Double touche!


----------



## kristin2349

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe, but you're a class act Mrs JA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Forgot to acknowledge the the Mr. is a class act as well!


----------



## kristin2349

Mrs. John Adams said:


> ok my sweet darlings....this girl has been pushed around for the last time. I may not fight for myself but i will fight for my friends.
> 
> I am done cowering...i am done curling up in a ball...and i have my friends backs.


Good! I'm here! You have nothing & no one to cower from!


----------



## lifeistooshort

Mrs. John Adams said:


> ok my sweet darlings....this girl has been pushed around for the last time. I may not fight for myself but i will fight for my friends.
> 
> I am done cowering...i am done curling up in a ball...and i have my friends backs.


I've got your back too girlfriend 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Philat

Uh oh...


----------



## 2ntnuf

I'm feeling harsh today. Anyone else?


----------



## Philat

Now that you mention it ...


----------



## 2ntnuf

hahaha It will pass.


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

johnAdams said:


> You would think on this site, more people would prefer to be a Healer instead of an unhealthy, infectious person that makes themselves feel better by projecting their situation and pain on others.


Absolutely! I am a newbie and I believe that most members have a healing mentality. 

However, I have already been the target of undeserved rude remarks, harassment and projection.

Can't fix that kind of crazy.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Post 'em up here, Charlotte. That's what this thread is for. We all get harsh treatment from time to time. This is a good vent thread and a good place for mods to come and check things out.


----------



## joe kidd

I apologize in advance for all posts to be made this month. 

Not really...... Don't you people know I am always right? Lol


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

2ntnuf said:


> Post 'em up here, Charlotte. That's what this thread is for. We all get harsh treatment from time to time. This is a good vent thread and a good place for mods to come and check things out.


Thanks! I won't put the offending posts up here so that I don't seem vindictive or inciting. 

The people who were unnecessarily nasty know who they are. I feel especially sorry for one of them in particular. Holy projection Batman! :rofl:

Like I said, those people clearly have issues that cannot be solved by TAM.


----------



## Miss Taken

Mrs. John Adams said:


> For the most part...everyone is pretty respectful everywhere except CWI....and it seems to be full of mostly men who hate women...especially WW.
> 
> So if you have something you need too discuss and you can put it in a forum besides CWI you should not have a problem.


I have seen that ire directed at you and EI and don't think it's right at all. I think you, EI and other wayward regulars have handled those posters with nothing but class. 

I wish that they would also read other's back stories and other posts instead of jacking the original threads and asking personal questions that don't necessarily pertain to the topic. It seems to me like you, EI and others get interrogated a lot and have to "prove your remorse" or prove yourselves worthy by different BS's on this site that don't know you. Maybe it's just me but it comes off as invasive.

As someone that frequents CWI, I wish that more WS's would post there but I can fully understand why they don't. Too often people posts threads, specifically asking WS's to respond and then it becomes a witch-hunt. Instead of listening even if one disagrees, a lot of projected hurt gets flung around at WS's instead of directed at one's spouse where it usually belongs. 

Being a BS doesn't make anyone a saint.


----------



## Anon Pink

Miss Taken said:


> I have seen that ire directed at you and EI and don't think it's right at all. I think you, EI and other wayward regulars have handled those posters with nothing but class.
> 
> I wish that they would also read other's back stories and other posts instead of jacking the original threads and asking personal questions that don't necessarily pertain to the topic. It seems to me like you, EI and others get interrogated a lot and have to "prove your remorse" or prove yourselves worthy by different BS's on this site that don't know you. Maybe it's just me but it comes off as invasive.
> 
> As someone that frequents CWI, I wish that more WS's would post there but I can fully understand why they don't. Too often people posts threads, specifically asking WS's to respond and then it becomes a witch-hunt. Instead of listening even if one disagrees, a lot of projected hurt gets flung around at WS's instead of directed at one's spouse where it usually belongs.
> 
> Being a BS doesn't make anyone a saint.


QFT!!!

I think any poster who gets mean or harsh with Mrs JA or EI should be reported, the post removed, and banned upon subsequent infractions!

I don't frequent CWI because I can't tolerate the level of bitterness that is accepted as normal, even encouraged! CWI should be a place of healing and people should hold one another accountable to promote healing and discourage vengeful bitter thinking.

We have all had crappy sh!tty lousy and unfair things happen to us. We cannot rate the depth of one persons trauma over another. Healing is healing no matter what it is that caused the injury. 

CWI is NOT a place of healing, it isn't even a place of cleansing. It is a pit of bitterness. I can't stand that section...can you tell?


----------



## Jellybeans

This thread is still happening? Novella was banned, right? 

The irony here is that some who get upset they have been called names have been incredibly rude to posters and done some name-calling themselves.


----------



## Jellybeans

joe kidd said:


> I apologize in advance for all posts to be made this month.
> 
> Not really...... Don't you people know I am always right? Lol


----------



## Anon Pink

Mrs. John Adams said:


> *No one is a saint...but no one deserves to be cheated on. It is the cruelest thing one person can do to another. It tears my heart out to think of the pain I have caused my dh. He above all others...did not deserve my selfishness.
> I owe him more than I can ever repay...he gave me a second chance....and I will never make him regret that decision.*


You know I adore you but I beg to differ on the underlined. 

Thoughtless and selfish, yes. 

But it is not something done specifically to bring pain to the other. That is how I define cruelty. I don't believe most people who have an affair do so specifically in order to inflict pain on their spouse.


----------



## Ikaika

Jellybeans said:


> This thread is still happening? Novella was banned, right?
> 
> The irony here is that some who get upset they have been called names have been incredibly rude to posters and done some name-calling themselves.



Sometimes in football it is the person retaliating who gets penalized. Always best to maintain civility, regardless of the direction to spears are being thrown. I don't find this a weakness, if your argument is on solid footing.


----------



## Anon Pink

Jellybeans said:


> This thread is still happening? Novella was banned, right?
> 
> The irony here is that some who get upset they have been called names have been incredibly rude to posters and done some name-calling themselves.


That's not true you ^*~%#!


----------



## Anon Pink

drerio said:


> Sometimes in football it is the person retaliating who gets penalized. Always best to maintain civility, regardless of the direction to spears are being thrown. I don't find this a weakness, if your argument is on solid footing.


This is absolutely true. For me, it's really hard to keep that not tempered Italian at bay. I can cuss in 5 languages!


----------



## vellocet

Mrs. John Adams said:


> For the most part...everyone is pretty respectful everywhere except CWI....and it seems to be full of mostly men who hate women...especially WW.


Ok, MJA, you know I like ya

But come on now. You take a disrespectful ACT or behavior, but the focus is on those that call out that behavior as disrespectful?

I know some can go over the top. I'm sure some think I probably have. But there are some people who are disrespectful to their spouses in real life, and IMO, disrespectful to us in the forum to come in, blameshift and make excuses that are an insult to those of us that have been betrayed who are going to get the emotions going.

You are not one of them, however. You and those such as EI are the exception to the rule IMO. So don't think I hold such views as above to people like you.

And I do think most of the angry BS's are men. I think it just pisses us off more. Nothing wrong with that, again, IMO


----------



## vellocet

Anon Pink said:


> QFT!!!
> 
> I think any poster who gets mean or harsh with Mrs JA or EI should be reported, the post removed, and banned upon subsequent infractions!


I agree with regards to MJA and EI, and those like them(although few and far between)

But I think some slack should be given when calling out the blameshifters, gaslighters, and "Its my spouse's fault I cheated" crowd.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Some people in CWI are downright abusive and vicious.They want the BS to do EXACTLY as they say and they want to beat the emotional snot out of the WS's who share their story.

It's rare to find people who actually just stick to giving advice and tips without getting emotionally involved and heated.


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> Some people in CWI are downright abusive and vicious.They want the BS to do EXACTLY as they say and they want to beat the emotional snot out of the WS's who share their story.


CWI is a zoo.


----------



## vellocet

Anon Pink said:


> You know I adore you but I beg to differ on the underlined.
> 
> Thoughtless and selfish, yes.
> 
> But it is not something done specifically to bring pain to the other. That is how I define cruelty. I don't believe most people who have an affair do so specifically in order to inflict pain on their spouse.


And on that I'll simply have to disagree. Anything that causes great pain, intentional or not, IMO, is cruel.

And no, I don't think the intention when cheating is to cause pain to your spouse(although I'm sure some might intend just that). But they know it will hurt them and know they shouldn't be doing it. Therefore, its cruel.


----------



## Miss Taken

vellocet said:


> I agree with regards to MJA and EI, and those like them(although few and far between)
> 
> But I think some slack should be given when calling out the blameshifters, gaslighters, and "Its my spouse's fault I cheated" crowd.


I know I can be harsh but I do try to attack the ideas, not the person. Still, it gets me in trouble sometimes and I suppose I'm seen as a b!tch to certain people around here. 

The thing is, I try to take my ego out of it when I disagree with someone or someone disagrees with me. I don't take dissenting opinions as a personal value judgment of my worth as a person but I don't think everyone else can do that. 

So I am guilty of projecting that expectation onto other people. Even though I try to make it clear that I'm only disagreeing with a statement or opinion, I can think of two posters recently that seemed to think I was attacking them personally or found them as people - not their ideas offensive (which I don't). 

I agree that CWI can be a real zoo. I think the further one is in their own healing process, the better they are at being more objective towards others situations. I know when I was new here, I probably projected some things too out of hurt more than I should have.

MJA, you have a lot more patience than I have when it comes to handling CWI and answering to those interrogations repeatedly. I know I couldn't do it.


----------



## kristin2349

Mrs. John Adams said:


> *I know you hate it there babe..because you are a doer! You have picked yourself up in times of despair and healed yourself! You are a remarkable woman! You have my respect and my loyalty. I like straight shooters...I appreciate honesty. You stand up for what you believe in and you do not cower to those who attack you. I am learning from you love! Thank you!*



I've learned a ton from both of you! You are both amazing.

ETA: Mrs.JA. You have nothing to cower from and plenty to offer some people. If your opinion isn't valued by some members ignoring it is an option for a reason. Personally you, the Mr. And Anon helped a ton. 

So while Mr. JA is more than capable of defending himself you are always respectful and consistent in defending him and YOUR story .


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

Anon Pink said:


> You know I adore you but I beg to differ on the underlined.
> 
> Thoughtless and selfish, yes.
> 
> But it is not something done specifically to bring pain to the other. That is how I define cruelty. I don't believe most people who have an affair do so specifically in order to inflict pain on their spouse.


Isn't it still cruel to know that something will cause pain and do it anyway? 

I am not picking on Mrs. Adams here-lord knows I am no saint. I just believe that all the deception is certainly cruel. 

I adore Mrs. Adams too. :smthumbup:


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Yes..I admit I overreacted to you jb...I took what you said personally. I apologized.
> 
> I have let it go. I tiptoe quietly around you. You have been here a long time. I am learning your online personality. Many times I agree with your wisdom....and sometimes I don't. That's ok.we all have a right to our own opinion. I am not your enemy. I meant you no harm. I know you think I was after you...I was not.
> 
> Now I am extending a handshake of peace to you. I will leave you alone...I will not attack you...I will not offend you...I will not argue with you.
> 
> I am not a fighter...I do not like confrontation. It took everything in my being to fight with you. I hate it. But I will not cower to you.
> 
> I can continue to ignore you...or we can put this past us and move on...and maybe even be cordial to one another.
> 
> The choice is yours.


I think it is very kind of you to offer peace. You seem to express vulnerability easily which is admirable. I have learned not to be vulnerable as that has led to people taking advantage of me. 

What a loving and sweet lady you are.


----------



## pidge70

I *NEVER* respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues. 

I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.


----------



## Philat

pidge70 said:


> I *NEVER* respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues.
> 
> I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.


Holy Smokes, Pidge. Christian like the Spanish Inquisition.


----------



## pidge70

Philat said:


> Holy Smokes, Pidge. Christian like the Spanish Inquisition.


I know right?


----------



## larry.gray

Miss Taken said:


> As someone that frequents CWI, *I wish that more WS's would post there but I can fully understand why they don't. * Too often people posts threads, specifically asking WS's to respond and then it becomes a witch-hunt.


Once you've been on the website a while, you realize how deep it can go.

Often the worst stuff is deleted by moderators. Quite often a WS will come, post and then delete their posts and go away after they are piled on.



Miss Taken said:


> Instead of listening even if one disagrees, a lot of projected hurt gets flung around at WS's instead of directed at one's spouse where it usually belongs.


It's no excuse, but the reason often is that a WS here has the remorse over their actions that the BS doesn't get from their own WS.


----------



## CharlieParker

pidge70 said:


> What is really great, he left the forum


And hopefully he never returned.


----------



## Philat

larry.gray said:


> It's no excuse, but the reason often is that a WS here has the remorse over their actions that the BS doesn't get from their own WS.


:iagree: I personally don't get projecting resentment at one's own *unrepentant* spouse onto a third-party *repentant* spouse. My feeling is the opposite: I have embraced the remorseful WS as paragons of what might eventually be in my own situation (and indeed have seen this happen, to a large extent anyway).


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## larry.gray

Philat said:


> :iagree: I personally don't get projecting resentment at one's own *unrepentant* spouse onto a third-party *repentant* spouse. My feeling is the opposite: I have embraced the remorseful WS as paragons of what might eventually be in my own situation (and indeed have seen this happen, to a large extent anyway).


That's certainly a more helpful and nice approach to take.

The projection comes from deep seated anger. They want to yell, be mean and nasty to someone _who cares._ They're not getting that from their own WS. 

We've been using the terms BS and WS, but this dynamic is more BH and WW because it is all about anger. Angry, betrayed men. I haven't seen this anger directed at WH by BW here. 

What made it clear to me what was going on was the way Tears was treated. Often the excuse is "we have to shocker her into realizing what she did." Some WW come here angry and unrepentant. Yes, I saw that from EI at first, and some level they need to hear some 'tough love.' Tears came here loaded with remorse from day one. She owned it all. No blaming anybody but herself. Yet we saw some rather nasty posts to her, several posters banned and so on.


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## Anon Pink

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> Isn't it still cruel to know that something will cause pain and do it anyway?
> 
> I am not picking on Mrs. Adams here-lord knows I am no saint. I just believe that all the deception is certainly cruel.
> 
> I adore Mrs. Adams too. :smthumbup:


No, we do things on a regular basis that cause pain to others. I don't believe it cruel unless the intention is to inflict pain. People who cheat don't INTEND to inflict pain. They INTEND to never get caught. Their INTENTION is to NOT inflict pain by keeping their spouse in the dark. Please do not follow this up with all the usual fluff that follows about fog and about lying and about loss of trust.

I intend to have that prime parking spot so I cut you off and block you to that I can have it. Yet, you are having some serious leg pain from a wound and now you must walk the 5 blocks while I, healthy as can be, take a few steps. It was cruel of me to make you walk...if I had know of your circumstance yes. That would imply intention. Something lacking in most cheating spouses.

They don't intend to get caught. They don't intend to be consumed in guilt and remorse. They intend the confession to promote healing. The pain caused was not intentionally caused, no matter how intentionally they lied about it.


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## Miss Taken

pidge70 said:


> I *NEVER* respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues.
> 
> I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.


That is just brutal. I don't blame you for not answering those threads. I wish there wasn't so much lashing out in those threads.

Thank goodness that "Christian" poster left. What a psycho. It's a shame that some people use their belief in God to attack others. Some of my immediate family members are like that and it's spiritual abuse IMO.


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## 2ntnuf

Some WS cheat for themselves without thought of their spouse. Some cheat because they don't care if it will affect their spouse and the opportunity is there. Some cheat because they don't understand what it will do to their spouse. Some cheat because they think it is their right. 

There are as many different reasons as there are WS'. In the end, most, but not all BS' are very much harmed by the infidelity. It lasts a lifetime for, dare I say most? It doesn't seem to matter what the reason for the betrayal was. It just matters, in most cases, that there was a betrayal. 

This thread exploded. Harsh is an opinion isn't it? Some would say the denial of responsibility in the affair is harsh. Some say any denial or justification is harsh. 

The methods used here to get to the bottom of the problem are harsh. There are many here who want to have a better marriage after an affair. The methods used here were what was in place when I got here. They have continued. Has it worked for anyone? I don't know. I do know that rugsweeping will not work. It just places a ticking time bomb in the marriage. 

What probably is best, is to just divorce after infidelity. It can never be taken back. It's pretty much like all the threads started on penis size to hurt someone. Those can't be just to discuss what is acceptable, because almost any size is acceptable. It depends on the individuals involved. Don't you think those are harsh threads?

How about the threads on bewb size? Who starts those and why? When a question is asked and answered directly, it is thought to be harsh. Well, maybe it's not harsh, it's just answering the question directly without using kid gloves? 

In those instances, wouldn't the best thing to do be to help the member to understand how to implement better communication? Yet, not once that I remember, has anyone ever stopped the thread and talked about communication. They go on for twenty or more pages. What does that say about the whole atmosphere here?

I think we all need to look in the mirror. Judging is rampant. Seems like that is expected. Also, many times, the best way to get out the facts is to challenge folks. Not always, but many times it takes those harsh challenges to bring out the real issue behind the infidelity. If that's not addressed, how can a person be helped? 

Anyway, this site was not invented, I don't believe, to be a place to congregate and gossip. While it's normal for folks to decide they are better than others, it's something for a new member to consider when they come here. The evidence of cliques and gossip is all over this site. I'm sure you can point to an instance of me doing it, as well. I've certainly tried not to do that, but I am human. 

I'd be very concerned if the thoughts about infidelity change too drastically. It's harmful to people. There is malice involved. There is planning. That in itself proves that a WS knows it will hurt or harm their spouse. Therefore, it's something done with the knowledge that it will do harm. If that isn't done intentionally, I don't know what is. 

I hope you all can read and understand this one day. I'd appreciate a little less provocation from this coven. I hope I've described you fairly. There was a post made in this very thread by a member talking of the coven being formed. Seems like the mods should have read that. I'm sure they have their eyes on this thread. I know, I was shocked when I saw those posts about becoming a lynch mob. 

I think it's time for the mods to delete this thread. It won't get any better. It will likely deteriorate further. I think that's bad for the reputation of this site. 

I have had many days of thought and reflection because of what many of you in this thread have posted in the past. What I read here and what I read in the now deleted, "troll", thread shows me a side I don't really like. Mods, do you think it's time to think about this? I don't think this is helpful to any new members who might be concerned about telling the truth and being vulnerable. Vulnerability is a key to a good relationship. How do we reward that? 

Obviously, folks need to be called out when there is infidelity. Both sides need called out. We can only know what is posted by the one who comes for help. Many times, that't the BS. They are the one who does not know how to handle it. The WS usually has made the decision to throw away the marriage long before they actually had the affair. 

There is a pile of stuff to think about. I don't know how anyone can understand in the least, if they have not been through it themselves. I don't know how anyone can fully understand it if they have not walked in the shoes of the other. 

Sometimes, members were told to send their WS or BS here for help. In some cases, that was done to allow members who knew the former spouse to have a chance to rip them apart. It does happen. Those cases are few and far between, but I've seen it. You can always tell because there is little help given to them. They are generally just asked their side of the story and once told, are dropped on their ass. 

If you have not been around for a while, or spent your time figuring out the best lubrication for sex or the best way to have multiple orgasms, and not how to figure out the most important part of any marriage, love, trust, vulnerabililty, communication, support, and on and on, sex will likely not help you to keep your marriage. 

Sex skills can be learned. There are members here who have been so dedicated to their marriage and spouse, they learn how to have orgasms when their spouse has severe ED. Those are the folks who should be respected. They could be unfaithful, but I doubt they will. They will leave their marriage first, giving their spouse a chance at recovery and a decent life after the marriage ends. 

How many have promoted that concept? How many have just gone and ripped a member apart for that opinion? Take a look. You'll see what I mean. 

That's all for now. I expect a flurry of activity like in high school, but I hope that isn't the case.


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## CharlotteMcdougall

Anon Pink said:


> No, we do things on a regular basis that cause pain to others. I don't believe it cruel unless the intention is to inflict pain. People who cheat don't INTEND to inflict pain. They INTEND to never get caught. Their INTENTION is to NOT inflict pain by keeping their spouse in the dark. *Please do not follow this up with all the usual fluff that follows about fog and about lying and about loss of trust.*
> 
> I intend to have that prime parking spot so I cut you off and block you to that I can have it. Yet, you are having some serious leg pain from a wound and now you must walk the 5 blocks while I, healthy as can be, take a few steps. It was cruel of me to make you walk...if I had know of your circumstance yes. That would imply intention. Something lacking in most cheating spouses.
> 
> They don't intend to get caught. They don't intend to be consumed in guilt and remorse. They intend the confession to promote healing. The pain caused was not intentionally caused, no matter how intentionally they lied about it.


Ah, I see what you mean. I like your parking analogy. 

I don't know why you are assuming that I was going to follow your post with "fluff". I was ready to learn from your point of view, which is why I asked the question in the first place. 

Please be less presumptuous and more respectful.


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## Anon Pink

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> Ah, I see what you mean. I like your parking analogy.
> 
> I don't know why you are assuming that I was going to follow your post with "fluff". I was ready to learn from your point of view, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
> 
> *Please be less presumptuous and more respectful. *


My comment wasn't directed solely to you but to anyone and everyone who reads and comments. Have you never posted a reply to a comment when the comment wasn't directed to you?

Presumption and respect...goes both ways


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## CharlotteMcdougall

Anon Pink said:


> My comment wasn't directed solely to you but to anyone and everyone who reads and comments. Have you never posted a reply to a comment when the comment wasn't directed to you?
> 
> Presumption and respect...goes both ways


Since I said that cheating is intentionally cruel and you_ quoted me_ while were explaining how it was not, it is obvious that your post was meant for me. 

Quoting content is a sign of directly addressing another TAM member. 

I won't be posting any fluff, but other people may want to if that is what they believe. What can we say?


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## Anon Pink

"My comment wasn't directed *solely* to you."

This means that while yes it was directed to you but it was also directed to anyone else who might also be reading.

"I won't be posting any fluff, but *other people may* want to if that is what they believe. What can we say?"

Ah, I see you actually did get my point.

Have a nice day.


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## CharlotteMcdougall

Anon Pink said:


> "My comment wasn't directed *solely* to you."
> 
> This means that while yes it was directed to you but it was also directed to anyone else who might also be reading.
> 
> "I won't be posting any fluff, but *other people may* want to if that is what they believe. What can we say?"
> 
> Ah, I see you actually did get my point.
> 
> Have a nice day.


I got your point about infidelity and being intentionally cruel.

"What can we say?" meant that nobody has the right to ask or tell others what they can post about about. 

You have a good day too.


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## manticore

Anon Pink said:


> No, we do things on a regular basis that cause pain to others. I don't believe it cruel unless the intention is to inflict pain. People who cheat don't INTEND to inflict pain.


I did my best to stay away from this discussion because is one of those topics where people never acchive nothing or come to a clonclusion, but as I am seeing that you are trying to influence people with your views I really could not stop myself from intruding (yeah weak I know)

Plain and simple you are wrong, most of the cruelest acts done in humanity where not done with the intention to cause harm they were selfish acts for the satisfaction or benefit of those who did them.

*prima notte or Droit de cuissage:* it was not intention of the feudal lord to harm the young brides or to hurth tha stbh, they were just taking adventage of the laws of their times stipulated by greddy kings to placate their feudal lords for the high taxes imposed.

*pedophilia in old empires:* it was and honor for the kids to be selected as the consort of emperors and kings and the parents were well remunerated during those times.

*Old treataments for metally ill people:* lobotomies, electroshock therapy, cold water treatment, the intention was not to hurt the patient but to heal him and doctors at that time honestly believed that they were benefical for patients (and some in fact have positive results but as side effect of the damage caused more an illusion than a reality).

*working kids during the industrial period:* now days a kid under 15 being forced to work in unthinkable back them it was normal to expect the kids to contribute to the family income and horrible jobs as chimney sweep were created for them, which later proved to be mortal.

I can go for hours with examples as these where the perpetrators where not consciously harming the affected part and still we call them inhuman and the cruelest now days, real life persons are not like movies where the perpetrators are evil villians who rejoice in the pain of others and they are evil 100% of the time, if you have seem threads of marital predators who go specially after married women some of them even have a deluded mentallity and think that they are making a favor the the husbands of the wives they are bedding, they describe how the wife was about to divorce but thanks of them now the wife is happy and satisfied reamain at home, some even think that they saved the marriages, they don't think in harming the husband or destroying him to push him to commit suicide they are just satisfaying their selfinesh.

finally if you still don't think that infidelity is cruel, let's review the definition of cruelty by the Oxford dictionary in the law section:

"_Behaviour which causes physical or mental harm to another, especially a *spouse*, whether *intentionally or not*_"

in the case you mention infidelity is cruel precisely because the perpetrator didn't think in his/her partner during such a destructive act, what could be more cruel for the affected one that to know that something that is so hurtful and destructive to him/her was done for his/her loved one with even considering him/her before shattering his/her whole world?.


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## 12345Person

If I'm being mean, 99% of the time it's not on purpose.


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## CharlieParker

Anonymous Person said:


> If I'm being mean, 99% of the time it's not on purpose.


What Alan Greenspan said, "if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I said", works for me too.


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