# Is it inappropriate to?



## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

My current marriage counselor is female. My personal belief is that it is hard to find a good counselor. I think many of them are messed up people that got into that field of work trying to find life's answers for themselves. That being said I think my counselor is a man hating feminazi.

When ever I bring up a point of something that rubs me the wrong or seams abnormal that I feel is part of the problem in my relationship she jumps to my wife's defense. Asks me why I would even bring such a thing up knowing it would be painful for my wife.

For instance I am in a very long sexless marriage. Yeah it sucks to be me. (I want it she does not) My wife has very poor self esteem, self mutilates etc. When I start talking about this my counselor gets visually upset. Suggests B.S. and that I am the cause, that I should do eyz more, like going out, more work., buy her stuff. Sorry but love should be given freely, not earned or used as punishment. Anybody in my situation knows the endless excuses your spouse will give. For you women out there in the same situation I am sorry that you have idiot husbands that wont even get checked for low T. Anyways as I am basically telling her this stuff does not work we need to get to the real issues she will all of a sudden she will do this... The counselor will ask me "Do you know what I think? " I will ask her what? What comes next is what I can only describe as an insult on me. She says "I think you would not know what to do with a confident woman." That would be a shock to me I admit. Coming home to a woman that jumps me when I get home, has a job that pays well, is not always paranoid about her weight or actually uses the gym membership card that she has to do something about it... I could go on. 

About three times our consoler has done this to me, asked me "You know what I think?" Each time she gave a answer that does not elevate the conversation. I only see them as an insult to rupture my own self esteem that is already very low. It is hard to have self esteem when the most physical contact you get is when you get a haircut or something. Anyways although she tell me that I am overpowering, not the truth at all, just had enough, I have been very reserved. Is it appropriate to send her a Email to call her out? I think she is a hack. I have a lot to say that I have not because every time I say something she tries to knock me down.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Simply find another. Why try "fixing" this one?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I agree, fire this one. A good marriage counselor should be good for BOTH of you, and the marriage. One that repeatedly defends one spouse and demeans the other is biased and can't be objective.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

PBear said:


> Simply find another. Why try "fixing" this one?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wife or counselor? On my first wife of 18 years and my 3rd marriage counselor.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Counselors aren't a one size fits all scenario. If you don't feel comfortable with this one, it's time to find one that fits you better.

A good counselor isn't there to judge his/her clients, but is there to help the clients find a solution for their issues. If you're feeling judged / unheard by yours, IMO, the therapy is counter-productive.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Our female MC always seemed to side with my wealthy STBXW. No small wonder, since my rich, cheating wife always paid the counselor's bill ever faithfully!

Why on earth would our MC ever want to shoot a "gift horse" in the mouth?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Find a new therapist who is impartial to you both & doesn't take sides.
If you feel more comfortable, find a male therapist, you maybe able to open up in front of another man.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Finding the RIGHT counselor is incredibly important.

It may certainly take several different visits to several (or more) counselors to find the one that you click with.

Your wife needs her own counselor for her self-esteem, self-mutilation etc.........the one you have I would end that like yesterday.....the counselor sounds like they are enabling and helping to perpetuate your wife's VICTIM behavior.

CHECK credentials and ask questions. 

Your wife needs independent counseling


AND you also need a DIFFERENT couples counselor


so many things are wrong with what you posted with how the therapist reacts to you and your wife.......


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> My wife has very poor self esteem, _self mutilates_ etc.


CrazyGuy, as we discussed back in Feb 2012, many of the behaviors you describe are classic traits of BPD. The self mutilation, for example, is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 study concludes that,Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma. _See _Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI.​I mention this because, if you W has strong BPD traits, her issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. My experience is that, until those deep underlying issues are addressed, MCs likely will be a waste of time. 

What is needed, instead, is an IC (ideally, a psychologist) who can teach your W how to manage her emotions, how to do self soothing, how to intellectually challenge her intense feelings, how to stay in the moment, and other skills that BPDers typically never learned in childhood. Hence, if your W does have strong BPD traits as you suspect, I seriously doubt that hiring a FOURTH MC will be helpful.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

I would have to agree that getting wife into a counseling with a Psychiatrist specializing in these issues.

Bag/forget the couples counseling until she is more stabalized.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Yeah the problem is. 1st counselor was way off track, we both hated her. Second one was better, but was based on the five love languages. Anybody doing any research on marriage already knows this stuff. So this was not anything new for me, however it was new for my wife. We went through his help and he could not help us, he referred us to the current counselor, "the one." She has another theory that she uses. But when I kind of blow those out of the way she jumps from book to book. Does not stay on one kind of treatment. Just tries to win arguments with me, heck she sounds like my wife at times. Our last 45 min appointment went over two hours! At the end of every session she will look at me and ask..."So do you want to come back?" I drag my wife to counseling with her asking "why are we going." On my one on one time with our marriage counselor she said " I have been very hard on you, why do you come back." To that I answered I want my marriage fixed or ended, but I want us both to be happy anyway this turns out. 

So I got a wife that does not want to go, a counselor that seems to want to piss me off so I stop going. I think she can't handle her job and should be called out for it. I am seeing another counselor for my anxiety/panic attacks. Anyways this last time she asked me again if I wanted to come back. I was pissed off at the time so I told her..."why don't you ask my wife that question? My wife said she would like to work on her self and her self esteem without me for a while. (wow the first time my wife wanted to go) I thought that was a great idea as I continue to see my own counselor. Our marriage counselor became very concerned and said we can't work ourselves that it would be the end of our marriage. I do not think that is the case but it is a possibility... Or it may give us both long needed answers and peace.

Anyways I am so tiered of this all. I do not want to start dragging my wife to another one and start drudging up old crap all over again. I would rather tell our current one to get on the ball or get out of business.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

You know what I think???

You nailed it...a man hating feminazi. Find a new MC. Her attitude isn't helping your wife one bit.

I went thru a stage of LD myself, I have no explanation for the cause. I was lamenting (as in complaining about H always wanting sex and I didn't) with the girls in my women's church group. One lady was a WWII widow.

She took issue with all of us younger women that still had husbands to go home to. She said, and I quote.."giving myself to the man I loved was the delight of my life. I never once told him no, and he respected me enough to know when I wasn't up to it. I lost him to the war, and not a day goes by that I wouldn't give anything for one more night to take him in my arms. You girls go home, appreciate that you have a man in your bed, and then show him your appreciation."

The point was taken by all of us, believe me.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

I would get your wife away from this counselor as quickly as I can.

You have a good idea of what issues she has......talk to your Individual Counselor to ask for referrals to PSYCHIATRISTS (not just LSW or LCSW or a Psychologist) that SPECIALZE in the issues you KNOW your wife has. 

You both have issues to deal with...especially your wifes issues need dealt with BEFORE you can work on your marriage.

kinda like We are having marital problems and also My wife has an open oozing wound and a broken arm. So lets go to the counselor to work on our marriage first....the open oozing wound won't get gang green and the arm will heal itself.....do you see the illustration here?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> I would have to agree that getting wife into a counseling with a Psychiatrist specializing in these issues.
> 
> Bag/forget the couples counseling until she is more stabalized.


:iagree:

If the OP's W has been diagnosed as BPD she should be under the care of a psychiatrist to try to control the condition. I doubt that a MC is qualified to treat her, let alone in a couples counseling scenario.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

My psychiatrist that I see for anxiety now treated my wife about 10 years ago... Until she spazzed out and refused to go. Would it be appropriate to suggest my marriage counselor and psychiatrist get in touch with each other? I am sure he has more insight on both of us.

Anyways I realize this marriage may be beyond repairable although it is my wish to fall back in love with my wife. Not sure I can do that though.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

You need to find another councelor. A councelor should be nonpartial and help each of you. This lady you are going to is unprofessional IMO. Why bother going to a councelor if they're not going to help. Most marriage problems aren't one sided where one is an ogre and the other a saint.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> If the OP's W has been diagnosed as BPD she should be under the care of a psychiatrist to try to control the condition. I doubt that a MC is qualified to treat her, let alone in a couples counseling scenario.


She has not been diagnosed, she does not stay long enough anyplace to get diagnosed. This is the first time in 10 years that she has or wanted any type of counseling at all so I was kind of hoping that her craziness would appear with our current marriage counselor despite me not liking her style at all. If I decide to change she will probably stop going.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

You don't get it.

Marriage counseling is USELESS when you both have underlying issues that need to be adressed/fixed FIRST.

She needs her OWN Psychiatrist who specializes in HER issues - self-mutilation/self-esteem issues.

THIS marriage counselor is a waste of your time and money. ANY Marriage counselor right now is a waste of time and money.

Have YOUR psychiatrist recommend a good psychiatrist for your wife...he already counseled her so he is even better equipped to suggest a good PSYCHIATRIST for HER.



remember this quote from Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Unique Username said:


> You don't get it.
> 
> Marriage counseling is USELESS when you both have underlying issues that need to be adressed/fixed FIRST.
> 
> ...


You are correct, I will bring this up at my next appointment with him.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

CrazyGuy said:


> She has not been diagnosed, she does not stay long enough anyplace to get diagnosed. This is the first time in 10 years that she has or wanted any type of counseling at all so I was kind of hoping that her craziness would appear with our current marriage counselor despite me not liking her style at all. If I decide to change she will probably stop going.


Maybe you should consider your suggestion (getting new everything) to yourself earlier... :rofl:


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CrazyGuy, I agree with Unique that it is important for each of you to see YOUR OWN psychologist or psychiatrist. Remember, HER psych is NOT your friend. He is ethically bound to protect her best interests. This is why, even if your W is diagnosed as having full-blown BPD, it is unlikely the psych will tell her, much less tell you. 

Therapists generally withhold this information from high functioning BPDers because they believe it is in the client's best interests to not be told. There are a number of reasons for this. If you are interested, I discuss them in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909. 

Relying on your W's therapist for candid advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for candid advice during the divorce. It is important that you obtain advice from a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CrazyGuy said:


> Yeah the problem is. 1st counselor was way off track, we both hated her. Second one was better, but was based on the five love languages. Anybody doing any research on marriage already knows this stuff. So this was not anything new for me, however it was new for my wife. We went through his help and he could not help us, he referred us to the current counselor, "the one." She has another theory that she uses. But when I kind of blow those out of the way she jumps from book to book. Does not stay on one kind of treatment. Just tries to win arguments with me, heck she sounds like my wife at times. Our last 45 min appointment went over two hours! At the end of every session she will look at me and ask..."So do you want to come back?" I drag my wife to counseling with her asking "why are we going." On my one on one time with our marriage counselor she said " I have been very hard on you, why do you come back." To that I answered I want my marriage fixed or ended, but I want us both to be happy anyway this turns out.


No offense, but it sounds like she wanted you to quit going. Also, sounds like she saw issues in your wife, BPD, that scared her and she didn't know how to deal with the situation.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Obviously, your wife needs coping skills more than discussing what happened when you didn't bring her flowers in 1998.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

CrazyGuy said:


> She has not been diagnosed, she does not stay long enough anyplace to get diagnosed. This is the first time in 10 years that she has or wanted any type of counseling at all so I was kind of hoping that her craziness would appear with our current marriage counselor despite me not liking her style at all. If I decide to change she will probably stop going.


Hmmm.... I'm battling to understand why your counselor sees fit to provide MC to a woman who is self-injuring without addressing that issue in IC first...


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

The whole idea behind marriage counseling is to be able to discuss the problems you have, in a safe and healthy environment. The counselor should be a neutral party focusing on the problems. I think you got a bad one, find another one soon. Look for one that only works with couples.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Hmmm.... I'm battling to understand why your counselor sees fit to provide MC to a woman who is self-injuring without addressing that issue in IC first...


Good point, she can seek IC, sometimes they can bring the spouse in for support in a certain problem. This may be a better route.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

CrazyGuy said:


> You are correct, I will bring this up at my next appointment with him.


I would not even go to the next appointment, why not look for somene else for IC for her now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

mablenc said:


> I would not even go to the next appointment, why not look for somene else for IC for her now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


he meant his OWN Psychiatrist he sees for anxiety etc....that HAD counseled the Wife 10 years prior. this pyschiatrist can reccommend one better suited to wifes unique AND immediate needs

We are also saying not just an IC..not just an LCSW/LSW/Psychologist.......but a PSYCHIATRIST......who can prescribe meds if necessary....and one who SPECIALIZES in wifes issues of self-mutilation , self-esteem etc


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

CrazyGuy said:


> When ever I bring up a point of something that rubs me the wrong or seams abnormal that I feel is part of the problem in my relationship she jumps to my wife's defense. Asks me why I would even bring such a thing up knowing it would be painful for my wife.


Answer her question with a question. Ask her how are you both supposed to deal with your problems if you can't even talk about them?




> She says "I think you would not know what to do with a confident woman." That would be a shock to me I admit. Coming home to a woman that jumps me when I get home, has a job that pays well, is not always paranoid about her weight or actually uses the gym membership card that she has to do something about it... I could go on.


I hope you said exactly that in response.



CrazyGuy said:


> Just tries to win arguments with me, heck she sounds like my wife at times.


This is the part that would bother me the most. Marriage counselors aren't supposed to take sides, nor should they argue with their clients. If they disagree, they should just point that out, not try to "win" the point. 

They also aren't supposed to fix everything for you. Instead, they are supposed to act more like a referee, and help the both of you work out your problems on your own. If what you said here is true, then this particular counselor isn't doing either of you any good. I would stop seeing her, and send her a letter/email explaining why.


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## Dahlia92 (Dec 31, 2012)

I agree with the advice you've already been given about getting rid of this MC.

My husband has a diagnosis of BPD and OCD. He sees his own therapist. He had to work on his issues before we could do anything as a couple. He works on his stuff, I've worked on mine and now he has gotten well enough that he and I can communicate effectively and work on things together. We have never seen a MC. The closest we came was both seeing the same therapist individually, which I now know is an ethical no no. She was a mess - like the one you describe is a mess. We both dropped her. She shouldn't have been helping anyone with anything, she visibily had plenty of her own issues.

I once had someone I knew who was a therapist tell me most people in the field of therpay get into it because of their own problems, that most therapists were basically a mess themsleves. From what I've seen, I believe it. Luckily my husband found someone who is good and has helped him a lot.

Your wife needs to have some level of stability before you guys can fix anything. If she's self mutilating, she's not stable. I think it's great that your wife is finally interested in help. But this woman sounds like she would do lots more harm than good. There are guidelines out there for ethical practices among therapists - what they should and shouldn't be doing with clients. You can google it and find lists. It's what my husband and I used to dump the woman who was seeing us both. She violated way too many rules on the list. Maybe if you found one of those checklists and showed your wife what this woman is violating and that she's not practicing in an ethical and healthy way, she'd be willing to look for someone else, maybe someone your guy recommends.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Unique Username said:


> he meant his OWN Psychiatrist he sees for anxiety etc....that HAD counseled the Wife 10 years prior. this pyschiatrist can reccommend one better suited to wifes unique AND immediate needs
> 
> We are also saying not just an IC..not just an LCSW/LSW/Psychologist.......but a PSYCHIATRIST......who can prescribe meds if necessary....and one who SPECIALIZES in wifes issues of self-mutilation , self-esteem etc


Thanks for clarifying, OP keep your appointment!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Wife or counselor? On my first wife of 18 years and my 3rd marriage counselor.


I was referring to your counsellor. Although you will obviously have your hands full with your wife too...

C


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

PBear said:


> I was referring to your counsellor. Although you will obviously have your hands full with your wife too...
> 
> C


I try to stay upbeat though all this. At this point it is either laugh or cry. Many times during a marriage counseling session my mind will wonder at something that was said that could be taken very different ways. I will get a smirk because I would be thinking "man I can't believe she just said that." The counselor will stop and point out I am smirking and ask why. I may come off ****y, perhaps that's the problem, but it is my way of coping with it all. The smirk is unintentional. I have to explain this every time.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> Hmmm.... I'm battling to understand why your counselor sees fit to provide MC to a woman who is self-injuring without addressing that issue in IC first...


I think she was trying to figure out if I am abusive somehow and the cause of it. That and she dove deep into my sexual past asking about masturbation as a teen! I am over 40 years old! She also asked if I EVER looked at porn in the past. I answered that with the truth. Yes I have looked at porn (very small amount). I also stated I do not like looking at porn because it has no use for me. Why get worked up with no outlet? It is not real, etc. But the counselor drilled me a long time asking "how do you feel when you see porn?" Making a statement "well porn can affect a woman's perception." And "do you see them as just an object." This went on and on. Finally I told her "I do not look at porn regularly, you asked if I EVER have looked at it." "I do not get up in the middle of the night to sneak a look and go to work with blood shot eyes because I was up all night. I am not addicted to porn, it is not part of my life, but I think it is pathetic as a married man if I want to see a naked lady it is the only way I will see one."

For some reason my wife bought me a Playboy magazine about 14 years ago and I was like "what the heck I do not want a mag."

Anyways my wife was not grilled about her sexual past at all. :scratchhead: But we covered this in two back to back sessions.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CrazyGuy said:


> I think she was trying to figure out if I am abusive somehow and the cause of it. That and she dove deep into my sexual past asking about masturbation as a teen! I am over 40 years old! She also asked if I EVER looked at porn in the past. I answered that with the truth. Yes I have looked at porn (very small amount). I also stated I do not like looking at porn because it has no use for me. Why get worked up with no outlet? It is not real, etc. But the counselor drilled me a long time asking "how do you feel when you see porn?" Making a statement "well porn can affect a woman's perception." And "do you see them as just an object." This went on and on. Finally I told her "I do not look at porn regularly, you asked if I EVER have looked at it." "I do not get up in the middle of the night to sneak a look and go to work with blood shot eyes because I was up all night. I am not addicted to porn, it is not part of my life, but I think it is pathetic as a married man if I want to see a naked lady it is the only way I will see one."


Drop this idiot. She was out to make you the bad guy from the start.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

CrazyGuy said:


> She also asked if I EVER looked at porn in the past. I answered that with the truth.


She wants to say you are the one cutting down the wife's self-esteem and are therefore the problem. 

There are a lot of very bad counselors out there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does this counselor work in a group or by herself.

I'd be very tempted to have a VAR on me and to record her attacking you in that manner. I'd do it a few times to show that she consistently does this. Then I'd start letting those who could fire her hear how she handle her patients.

She's way out of line.


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