# Afraid I've lost my SO



## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

I was sent here by another redditor that suggested I post what happened to me. Originally I posted to Surviving Infidelity via reddit to try and get some advice on what has happened. 

Here is the original post.

I haven't been the perfect person throughout my life and I want to become a better person not only for myself but for the relationship that I currently have. I want to be able to fix what I have done wrong and I accepted responsibility for my actions but right now I don't know if I will get a second chance.

I feel like I can be better and change, become the man I want to be for her.

She feels scared that I will never change and at the same time doesn't want to lose me from her life.

Further down my post there are some comments back and forth between myself and "ErnieHudson4eva" that explain in more detail the specifics of where I am at right now. I just feel so lost right now and don't know how to convince my SO that I love her and want to fight for this to work.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Wow.

You are lucky she stuck around this long. The second your fist made contact with her body is when she should have walked away from you forever.

This relationship is the definition of toxic. You physically abused her (over and over) and you neglected her. Now she has had an affair - which is not the way she should have dealt with any of this. I really don't know how you move forward from all of that. 

What I think you should do is let her go and spent A LOT of time working on yourself, so that if you ever have another relationship you don't destroy it - and her. You have a lot of work to do, and I think you need to do that on your own.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KredPandak said:


> I was sent here by another redditor that suggested I post what happened to me. Originally I posted to Surviving Infidelity via reddit to try and get some advice on what has happened.
> 
> Here is the original post.
> 
> ...


Why not share details of your story here?

Most here would prefer to avoid having to slum around the cesspool that is reddit, much less the minefield of enabling chumps that is SI.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Let us know when you've finished the anti-violence counselling, seen it right through, and forced yourself to master the anger and violence issues. You can do nothing worthwhile in ANY relationship while you're a victim to your own lack of control - keep away from relationships with men or women until you have achieved this. (should be something taught in schools, IMO. The time and place for such things is defending the family and the battlefield, not in social places.)

Your partner is acting normally. Try to get a hold of that within yourself. She has damaging past and limited relationships. You are both co-dependent. recognise it, own it, and only thing can you both grow without hitting each others hot-buttons like some kid on a video game.
She's not "making one mistake". You've grown a little, and she's starting to grow too. So it is normal for her to take a risk and venture out from her shell a little. And she will be flattered and swept off her feet when she meets other men, who pay her compliments and attention and make her laugh and have fun <- because that is how men act towards possible interests, and she is inexperienced in dealing with it, and doesn't realise all that good stuff is part of the human mating dance... just as her being emotionally responsive is also biologically programmed into her. And every woman is going to be affected because of that programming by someone who is "out of her level" supplying the correct stimulus (confidence, social contacts, fun, resources) ... It takes a deliberate effort not to be, and that means as a guy you have to make sure you rate in confidence, security, fun (and not in drama, history, and work). Are you willing to provide that security, fun, and be the impressive person of respect? (hint: losing control, let alone violence to family, doesn't cut it)


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Let us know when you've finished the anti-violence counselling, seen it right through, and forced yourself to master the anger and violence issues.


It has been years since I have raised my hands to her. I know what I have done and I recognize that it was a horrible thing and never want to be that person again. Years ago I made a conscious decision not to be physically abusive to anyone and to deal with my anger in a respectable manner.



spotthedeaddog said:


> It takes a deliberate effort not to be, and that means as a guy you have to make sure you rate in confidence, security, fun (and not in drama, history, and work). Are you willing to provide that security, fun, and be the impressive person of respect? (hint: losing control, let alone violence to family, doesn't cut it)


I want to start a new lifestyle with her. I've realized that the things that I've done are not the way that I want to be, (neglectful, abusive, angry) I want to show her how I really feel and I want the opportunity to prove that I am a better man. That I have learned from past experiences and that these events don't define me as a person.





Hope Shimmers said:


> Wow.
> 
> You are lucky she stuck around this long. The second your fist made contact with her body is when she should have walked away from you forever.
> 
> ...


I don't want to control her. Not at all, but she has always made me feel special and there was a time where I made her feel special too. She was in a bad place in her life when we met and contemplated suicide. She's told me before that I saved her, that talking/being with me made her life have purpose. I want her to be happy and if that is about moving on without me I can accept that but she has also told me that she doesn't want to lose me from her life. She can't just let go of me and I don't want to lose her. But as I've said I want to work on this to make things right and start anew. I just don't know if she will give me another chance. 

I already plan to contact my HR department at work so that I can find out what my insurance covers for therapy and go from there. But I want to be able to go with her and attempt to fix what was broken.






GusPolinski said:


> Why not share details of your story here?
> 
> Most here would prefer to avoid having to slum around the cesspool that is reddit, much less the minefield of enabling chumps that is SI.


The story isn't as simple as she did this and I did that. I'm not telling you to rummage through all the comments on reddit but at least read what I wrote. It is extensive and long but that's why I didn't just rewrite everything here.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I want to show her how I really feel and I want the opportunity to prove that I am a better man.


Can only be done to improve yourself, not to impress her.
Do it to impress her and you're a sub(missive) looking for a treat, she has the power and respect.

Do it for yourself. She has a reason to come to you, then you get the respect.

In any dealing the power (respect) goes to the one is able and willing to walk away from the table/deal.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> In any dealing the power (respect) goes to the one is able and willing to walk away from the table/deal.


I understand what you are saying but I need to tell you. Last night she explained to me more that she still has feelings for him and that part of her, "wants to get him out of her system." I told her that expecting me to wait for her while she basically continues to have an affair isn't fair to me, and it isn't fair to this other man.(she knows that if she wants to talk/contact him it is over for us) I said that he is a person too and that he has his own feelings and emotions and treating him like that isn't right either. 

Now I am in Limbo, waiting for either Divorce or Reconciliation. I can't just walk away from the table and I know in doing so she has all the power. If I walk away now I will lose her possibly forever while she finds solace in this other man. On the other hand if I wait for her choice there is a possibility that we could fix this.

Where do I go from here? 

Do I simply tell her that I'm done and walk away? 

Is there another way to let her know I want to make this better? 

If she is with me how can she get over her feelings for this Other Man?


EDIT: "If you love something let it go."
If I let her go and she, "gets him out of her system" how could I take her back knowing that I'm her second choice? If I let her go I'm almost 100% certain she will break No Contact to be with him. Then if she is happy, good I can go on knowing that she is in a better place. But if things don't work out she already said that she would want to find her way back to me. I can't live like that and I told her this. 

Why is this choice so hard for her? Why can't she just be with him or fix things with me? I want her to be happy even if it's not with me but she still doesn't know what to do.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

In my experience, the limbo is just the cheater still doing their best to maintain both relationships, under the guise of not being able to choose between them.

The only way to end limbo is to do it yourself. And honestly, if your wife won't drop this other guy and choose you, what does that say about what she thinks of you? Do you really want a wife who won't put you first?

As long as she thinks you won't walk away, she'll continue to do what she's doing. So walk away, at least for now, to shake her up. Depending on her behaviour, maybe you can walk back later.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> ...if your wife won't drop this other guy and choose you, what does that say about what she thinks of you?


She did agree to break contact with him and after some discussion he no longer works with her and is currently being transferred to another job. I don't have proof but she told me last night that she hasn't had contact with him since she ended it and I do believe her. 

It's like she is choosing me but at the same time is choosing him. Not by actually being with him, but by not agreeing to be 100% with me and to start therapy together.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Seriously, if she were my daughter I would advise her to run far away from you.

You beat the woman you supposedly love and when she was pregnant. I don't feel sorry for you. What goes around, comes around.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> You beat the woman you supposedly love and when she was pregnant. I don't feel sorry for you.


I am not proud of myself. Words can't describe how awful what I did was and there isn't a day of my life that I don't feel like a monster because of the way I treated another person. I'm not asking for forgiveness, there is no reason for my actions to be forgiven. No one should feel sorry for me either. 



soccermom2three said:


> What goes around comes around.


That may be your standpoint on it but I need to live with myself for the rest of my life knowing what I have done to another person, another life. I hate myself for what I've done. Does that mean I need to be cheated on as well? Do the two wrongs make this right?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep, this is one of the few times where I do believe your actions can cause an affair. Beating your spouse is wrong and I've seen too many cases where infidelity is an escape. All I'll say is, you got your violence out of you and she stuck around. So, either end it or let her get him out of her system.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

KredPandak said:


> Does that mean I need to be cheated on as well? Do the two wrongs make this right?


I don't see it as two wrongs. I see it as a consequence of your actions. You got off light. You should be in jail, imo.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

You are reacting in panic..You do not want to lose what you think you own and what you consider are your toys. This is not love

You are in position to be in a relationship with another person. You should be in jail. What you are exhibiting is standard abuser behavior. You will not fix it if you stay with her. Once you feel safe, your current panic will disappear and will be replaced by more abuse and anger. You are dangerous to your wife. What is worse is that, your wife, out of desperation will keep reaching out to other scumbags to get out from this relationship. 


If you are honest about your intentions to change, place her above your needs and give her the freedom of a divorce with very good settlement terms to her. Get intensive therapy for a year or two. 


if you wife decides to leave you, do not lash out or hold it against her. You deserve it and more. How you react will alsotell about the abuser in you.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

You BEAT her, repeatedly, and when she was pregnant! You get NOTHING now in terms of "respect". NOTHING! Do you not GET that? Do you really think that it was such a "non-issue" that she should just be able to forget it? That it should not have formed the basis for how she sees your relationship?

And now you want to focus on her affair??? 

Just get out of her life and start OVER if what you really want to do is "become a better person". Stop whining about having to lose what YOU want because you need to do that. Just grow two balls and DO it. Jesus!!!! Leave her the **** ALONE and fix your damaged SELF!!!!


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

Are you legally married or just living together? 
Have you received any counseling in regards to your anger issues?
Has she received any counseling in regards to the domestic violence incidents? 
Also it would be wise for her to look into post abortion stress syndrome(PAS).


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Kobold said:


> Are you legally married or just living together?
> Have you received any counseling in regards to your anger issues?
> Has she received any counseling in regards to the domestic violence incidents?
> Also it would be wise for her to look into post abortion stress syndrome(PAS).



Technically we are what is called Common Law Married.

I have not gone to counseling for anger management.

She has not gone to counseling either.

I do plan on getting help and when I speak to a therapist I will tell them everything as well. I want to become a better person.


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## lovecat (Jul 31, 2015)

"I didn't know what to believe* so I went to her job and took her phone. I walked outside and called the other man. *I told him that I know everything and want to here it from him now. I told him that I want things to be amicable and that I want to hear his side. He told me, "I don't know what you think happened but it's suspicious that your calling me on her phone."
*I just ****ing lost it. I dashed back into the building and cornered her while putting him on speaker phone. I said I have here here right now and you need to tell me what happened between you two. She said, "just tell him everything." Then I snapped and told her to shut up. He still denied it. I told him if he can't admit to anything there will be consequences then hung up the phone and left.*
She talked to him and convinced him to call me but I didn't answer. I didn't want him to talk to her first to get a story to tell me so I left it at that.
Later that night I went to pick her up from work like I always do. I told her that I want to know everything that happened and that's when she told me. She admitted to kissing on Halloween. She admitted to the flirting and him touching her. But that's it.
I told her I don't want her to have contact with him at all. *After having a conversation with her manager it was agreed that they would not be in the building at the same time. *Then after a week he will be transferred to another location. I felt like it was over."

You seem to think because you haven't hit her in awhile you are no longer abusive. Read the bolded parts of your story. Normal people don't just show up at their partner's workplace and cause a scene. You're lucky her employer didn't have you arrested! You should be in jail.

Why are you online posting to message boards? What is that going to accomplish. Find out where there is serious anger management therapy, call up, and make an appointment for you to go. Yes, just you. You are the one with the problem. If you care about her any at all, you'll let her go.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The OP knows he did wrong. People piling in and repeatedly telling him he did wrong might not be entirely helpful, IMO. 

OP, you and your wife both need to attend counselling, individually and as a couple. Including, rather, especially, anger management for you.

You have had a rare second chance. Do not blow it.


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## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

OP, I think you know what you did was wrong and that's a good start. I don't think you really understand how your actions have shaped your relationship. Physical abuse, even as an adult, changes the victim. When a child is physically abused they often grow up adopting varying degrees of sociopathic [like] behavior. Adults are not necessarily that different although they are more equipped to handle the stressors that come with abusive situations. 

What may very well have happened is you have separated her from her emotions, a natural response of self preservation in victims of abuse. 

You have essentially built a very large, thick wall right through the middle of your relationship. One which you cannot tear down by yourself. It will require a large degree of participation from your SO and I cannot promise you that it will ever come down completely. 

While I do believe actions have consequences, which you are now reaping, I'm not going to try to tell you that being cheated on shouldn't hurt. It does, regardless of whether or not anyone else thinks you've deserve it.

You have been handed the greatest opportunity ever. I'm not going to promise that your relationship will work out. I can't promise you that and neither can anyone else. But, you are being presented and opportunity to change your life for the better. Do not let it go to waste. 
You want your relationship to last? You need to start with you.

Get into anger management.
1. Because you have not addressed the root of the problem. I know that you have not laid a hand on your SO for some time but to be perfectly honest, that's not good enough. You need to address the issues in your life that have brought you to this place and that begins at day one. Not to mention it sounds like those underlying anger issues are still lurking under the surface. 

2. You need to clearly demonstrate to your SO that you're committed to going down the path of self improvements: fixing you. Your SO believes that you could unleash on her at any time. That fact that you haven't for a length of time probably does little in terms of reassuring her. 

Do this and continue it regardless of the outcome of your relationship. Make no mistake, if you want things to get better your life is going to change drastically. 

You need to ask your SO, nicely, to attend marriage counseling. You are going to need to learn to communicate in a healthy way. Be prepared for her to say no. Accept it if she does. She is an individual and gets to make her own choices in these matters regardless of how you feel about it. 

I cannot stress how important this is: regardless of what happens between you two, continue your own path of self improvement. I don't think you want things to continue on like they have. Your life is going to change big time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> The OP knows he did wrong. People piling in and repeatedly telling him he did wrong might not be entirely helpful, IMO.


So? He'd already be in counseling and taking anger management classes without the suggestion. He wouldn't be saying, it was a long time ago if he understood. He wouldn't be trying to equalize the acts, which means he has done this with his SO, if he "knows he did wrong." He beat his wife, claims he is recovering and then promptly went to work and used abusive tactics again. 
He is an abusive man and has shown nothing, but words to show he kind of grasps the situation. What he has shown is he is scared of losing the woman he controls. If he really knows and understand he'd let her go.

Good thing she isn't here I'd be telling her to go to a abuse shelter, disown this dude and never talk to him again. No, marriage counseling only occurs AFTER they both get IC and even then she should say no.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

How old are the two of you?

Right now I would say that it's all about you and has always been all about you. You have been repulsively abusive and stopped that behavior. You decided to stop and since you say you are done with that, then you think that everyone else, including your SO, should just accept your analysis. You admit that you were horribly neglectful. You decided to stop that behavior as well and now want her to just believe that you understand you were wrong and she should understand that, too. Because you say so.

To her, though, you haven't ever been a safe partner. Why should she trust you just because you say she should?

If you are legally common law, then you can't be that young. If you are still very young and living together, then you really have no claims or expectations regarding her.

No, her affair is absolutely wrong. Her wanting to get away from you is completely understandable, however.

You have had an epiphany because your security with her has been threatened. If she hadn't found someone else, you'd still be neglecting her, wouldn't you?

Go to anger management counseling; find out why you are so angry and selfish. Stop trying to keep her. Work on you.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

lovecat said:


> Why are you online posting to message boards? What is that going to accomplish. Find out where there is serious anger management therapy, call up, and make an appointment for you to go. Yes, just you. You are the one with the problem. If you care about her any at all, you'll let her go.


I was posting because I am scared and I don't know what to do with myself. I have looked for a therapist nearby and left them a message but I assume their office is closed atm. I am going to get help.




thebirdman said:


> You have essentially built a very large, thick wall right through the middle of your relationship. One which you cannot tear down by yourself. It will require a large degree of participation from your SO and I cannot promise you that it will ever come down completely.


You are right, my actions have caused this person to feel alone in a relationship where there should be nothing but trust. 



thebirdman said:


> You have been handed the greatest opportunity ever. I'm not going to promise that your relationship will work out. I can't promise you that and neither can anyone else. But, you are being presented and opportunity to change your life for the better. Do not let it go to waste.


No she hasn't left me completely and I realize that this could possibly be my last chance at redemption. I will not squander that and even if she decides to leave me I will accept that and still continue to become a better person through counseling.



thebirdman said:


> You need to ask your SO, nicely, to attend marriage counseling. You are going to need to learn to communicate in a healthy way. Be prepared for her to say no. Accept it if she does. She is an individual and gets to make her own choices in these matters regardless of how you feel about it.


I have asked her about counseling and she said that she needs time to think about it. 




alte Dame said:


> How old are the two of you?


She is 28 and I am 29.



alte Dame said:


> Right now I would say that it's all about you and has always been all about you...... Go to anger management counseling; find out why you are so angry and selfish. Stop trying to keep her. Work on you.


I will get help and I will start to invest in why I have acted the way I did.




MattMatt said:


> The OP knows he did wrong. People piling in and repeatedly telling him he did wrong might not be entirely helpful, IMO.


To the contrary hearing this from other people is very important to me. As I've said I want to change and want to become healthy not just for her but for myself. The brutal honesty that has been shown here helps me realize that I still have a problem even if I haven't touched her in years. I still have issues that I need to deal with and I will never be 100% if I don't take care of myself first.

I really do appreciate everyone's honesty here while telling me how they feel about all of this. I will be taking the advice given to me by getting help and starting to recover my own mental health.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

KredPandak said:


> I still have a problem even if I haven't touched her in years. I still have issues that I need to deal with and I will never be 100% if I don't take care of myself first.


The first thing is to fix you, not for her or to save the relationship.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Why We Don?t Recommend Couples Counseling for Abusive Relationships


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I understand what you are saying but I need to tell you. Last night she explained to me more that she still has feelings for him and that part of her, "wants to get him out of her system." I told her that expecting me to wait for her while she basically continues to have an affair isn't fair to me, and it isn't fair to this other man.(she knows that if she wants to talk/contact him it is over for us) I said that he is a person too and that he has his own feelings and emotions and treating him like that isn't right either.
> 
> Now I am in Limbo, waiting for either Divorce or Reconciliation. I can't just walk away from the table and I know in doing so she has all the power. If I walk away now I will lose her possibly forever while she finds solace in this other man. On the other hand if I wait for her choice there is a possibility that we could fix this.
> 
> ...



For as long as you can't walk away
she has what satisfies her needs. She has you, and has you very cheaply and for extremely low maintenance, and you're proving her right that you're not worth more. Why should she, why _would_ she , make more effort to keep you ?

IMO this is time for 180 type thinking.

you can't control her but you can become a more fun and successful person in yourself that she wants. It's only when she realizes she is going to lose something she wants will she change herself.

The flipside is when you develop your own fun and own respect, you will be less needful of her, and losing her won't be such a big deal for you - and then you can negotiate as equals and interdependently. Sadly modern western world is a womans' world and they have all the power in relationships and a lot in law and set the values developing in our society, gone are the days when your family arranged a business partnership for your heirs, and the marriage was near iron clad. now you have to bid for her every day on "emotional eBay", and via for her attention in the relationship like some competing magazine cover. You can either play the child and mope about being upset - or show you're worth the effort and have social standing and means to survive in the modern world. Guess which one wins the girl...


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

My ex husband beat the crap out of me often, humiliated me, called me names, tried to put me in sexual situations with his friends.

You have no idea how this damaged me. 

The insecurities I have now. The self esteem and anxiety issues I have. The fact that I then let my second husband pretty much walk all over me until I then cheated on him.

Most people think being physically abused by a man only leaves bruises and scars. No......those bruises and scars go so much deeper then skin level. 

She probably has no idea what she wants because her brain is so incredibly screwed up from abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I do plan on getting help and when I speak to a therapist I will tell them everything as well. I want to become a better person.


One does not "plan" to get help or see a therapist. Those are excuse making behaviors - like and addict who will give up after the next hit.

*nike*


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> One does not "plan" to get help or see a therapist. Those are excuse making behaviors - like and addict who will give up after the next hit.
> 
> *nike*


I'm sorry I may not have used the correct wording to convey what I really meant. I called a therapist earlier today and left a message for them to call me back. Tomorrow I will be calling to make an appointment with my own primary care physician to discuss possible treatment. When I said plan I mean that I will be doing this and that it is going to happen but at this time I cannot talk to my own doctor. First thing tomorrow morning I will be making more calls and hopefully I will be able to schedule an appointment asap.




Annie123 said:


> The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Why We Don?t Recommend Couples Counseling for Abusive Relationships


I have read this and will call them right now. Thank you.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Kred,

At this point you need to tell her

"I love you, I want to be with you, I refuse to be a Plan B, you are my Plan A"

That's it, telling the simple truth is ALL you can do. 

If she breaks No Contact them she needs to move out. The cheating is on her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

I have talked to someone via The National Domestic Violence Hotline and he gave me a number to a local help center. He explained that this is not going to be easy but I am taking the first step and that is a good thing. He also said that only a minority of men who attend BIPP's actually complete them successfully. I don't want to be one of those people.

I called this place and left them a message. I don't know what to expect going into this but I'm going to see this through. I will try to call them again in the morning so I might be able to set up an appointment.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

To the people that have given me advice before I am looking for some more now. I need an objective look at the situation at hand and would like more honesty.

I just brought my SO to work but before I did we talked more about the OM. She expressed to me that she wants to get in contact with him but was not specific as to why. In her words, "I don't know if I want closure or what but I feel like you took my options away from me." I did tell her not to contact him anymore because of advice I had read previously about Infidelity. 

We are still staying in the same house and at the moment we are separated. She has not told me if she wants to continue a relationship with me but I have told her that if she wants to move on that I will give her my total support. I am putting her emotions and needs before my own and now she wants to contact him. She also expressed concern that if she wanted to be with him that I would kick her out of the house. I don't know what to do/think at the moment and any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated once more. 

The scenario that I play in my head is that she first wanted to make sure I wouldn't kick her out. Then when she contacts him they will continue where they left off. I am not going to stop her from being with this OM if that means she is happy but I would feel uncomfortable if she was with him and still living with me. She doesn't have anywhere else to go if she did leave and this OM lives with his family.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No contact means no contact. Period. Still, your situation is unique. Go fix yourself, go get help and find someone new. Yes, I'd say this if you took vows and were legally married. There is too much water under the bridge IMO. If it is truly YOUR house and she is not on your lease give her 30 days, or whatever is legal in your state, then have her move out. Closure and further contact helps no one.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

You lost your SO when you first beat on her, there is no recovering from that.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No contact means no contact. Period. Still, your situation is unique. Go fix yourself, go get help and find someone new. Yes, I'd say this if you took vows and were legally married. There is too much water under the bridge IMO. If it is truly YOUR house and she is not on your lease give her 30 days, or whatever is legal in your state, then have her move out. Closure and further contact helps no one.


Thanks. I already told her that no matter what I wouldn't kick her out but I know I would feel uncomfortable if they got together while she was here. I meant what I said to her, "I am going to put your feelings and emotions first." I just don't know how I would recover while going through the emotions of her being here.



knobcreek said:


> You lost your SO when you first beat on her, there is no recovering from that.


I'm not expecting her to stay with me. I just don't know how I should act now. I want to treat her with the respect that she's always deserved. To elaborate more I'm the one that broke us up. I also told her that if she wanted to contact him that it is fine with me. And that anything she tells me in confidence is between us.(She doesn't want her family to know anything.) I'm trying to take the first steps in becoming a better person and not for her but for myself.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> The OP knows he did wrong. People piling in and repeatedly telling him he did wrong might not be entirely helpful, IMO.
> 
> OP, you and your wife both need to attend counselling, individually and as a couple. Including, rather, especially, anger management for you.
> 
> You have had a rare second chance. Do not blow it.


He'd be best to go separately at first to put him in a better space to deal with the stuff that comes up in couples counselling. and it is also easier for him to enact his own decisions (his counselling)rather than have to be dependent on her cooperation (couples counselling)


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

knobcreek said:


> You lost your SO when you first beat on her, there is no recovering from that.


I disagree.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

the guy said:


> I disagree.


Could you explain why you disagree? Is there a particular reason for it?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I suggest you stay the course and never accept your old ladies behavior.

What worked for me was going to group, it's cheaper and I had awsome counselor. 52 weeks of anger management changed my life. And yes I went on my own and was not court ordered! That right there said a lot to my old lady.

I know for a fact I will never hit my old lady again......I also believe she will never cheat again...I guess when one was as phucked up as we were and with all the bad behaviors we had there was no were else to go but up.

When you become the person you never wanted to be it's easy enough to find the tools to have healthier behaviors. The trick is knowing you need to go look for the tools.

The way I see it you fix your self...then it will be up to your old lady to stay and reap the rewards. 

Even after ten years I'm sure she has doubts if I'll smack the shyt out of her just like I have doubts of her phucking around again. Granted those doubts are fading with time and with positive behaviors but all the same both of us are well aware of what we are capable of.

As long as we keep the tools that prevent *my* abuse and affair proofing *her* marriage, then we will continue to reap the rewards we both have to offer.

At the end of the day you can only control how you behave and what you will tolerate, Your old lady just might tell you to phuck off and take her chances with someone else....she just might find a guy who still doesn't live with his parents....LOL
She could be buying her time, so becarefull!

I hope you guys work your shyt out like me and my old lady did...either you guys meet each others needs or you don't....again just be care full, your chick just might be buying her time, but I hope I'm wrong and she finds the tools to affair proof the M.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Lets face it...if your old lady had found a guy that had his own place....you my friend would be sitting in front of your computer right now with a half empty house and a business card with some divorce lawyers name on it tucked away in your wallet.

Just be careful....you can make all the positives changes to be a bestest husband in the world. but if there is someone else in the picture then you are screwed. You just can't comepete with new love.

So unless your old puts in the time just like you want to put in the time she will continue to look for a replacement.

I'm hoping your old lady was just looking for a bandaid for all the crap you did to her and sees you are worth the effort and stops looking for your replacemant.

With that said a seperation will be the nail in the coffin for this M so either the both of you go balls out in fixing your selves or forget about it. You guys are so phucked up it's going to take the both of you to get a new marriage going.

And I'm not saying my marriage wasn't phucked up...it was maybe worse then yours....the point is *we* went all in turning it around.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

KredPandak said:


> Could you explain why you disagree? Is there a particular reason for it?


I disagreed cuz when one start beating their spouse they have more control. In fact in some cases the abuser never loses their spouse until that spouse is dead.

In your case I think you didn't start losing your old lady until she found a band aid for her abuse and that band aid was another man. I'm guessing the abuse went on for some time before you lost your wife...it did for me anyway.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

the guy said:


> What worked for me was going to group, it's cheaper and I had awsome counselor.
> 
> I hope you guys work your shyt out like me and my old lady did...either you guys meet each others needs or you don't....


I don't even know what to say. I'm really glad that things worked out for you and yours. I'm going to get better and I will be going to get the tools I need to become a better person.

You sharing your personal journey with me gives me some hope that we might just be able to come out of this stronger. I don't think I can thank anyone here enough for helping me get on the right track with my life. It really means a lot to me right now, thank you.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> To the people that have given me advice before I am looking for some more now. I need an objective look at the situation at hand and would like more honesty.
> 
> I just brought my SO to work but before I did we talked more about the OM. She expressed to me that she wants to get in contact with him but was not specific as to why. In her words, "I don't know if I want closure or what but I feel like you took my options away from me." I did tell her not to contact him anymore because of advice I had read previously about Infidelity.
> 
> ...




Does she need you financially? the scenario you play in your head is most likely. Just tell her that seeing him while living with you is unacceptable. Even though you have responsibility for the state of the relationship and how you treated her, you cannot allow the scenario to happen when still living together. Offer to set her up/assist financially in a new place. And once she moves out, you will be filing for divorce.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Thanks. I already told her that no matter what I wouldn't kick her out but I know I would feel uncomfortable if they got together while she was here. I meant what I said to her, "I am going to put your feelings and emotions first." I just don't know how I would recover while going through the emotions of her being here.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not expecting her to stay with me. I just don't know how I should act now. I want to treat her with the respect that she's always deserved. To elaborate more I'm the one that broke us up. I also told her that if she wanted to contact him that it is fine with me. And that anything she tells me in confidence is between us.(She doesn't want her family to know anything.) I'm trying to take the first steps in becoming a better person and not for her but for myself.



what do you know about this guy ? She honestly might be jumping from one bad relationship to another. Even though she might be a victim, she might still make bad decisions that will affect both of you.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You need to be prepared to divorce her immediately if she breaks No Contact, otherwise you WILL be living in an open relationship.

The next No Contact break after a No Contact of no consequences is a downhill plan.

If there is another No Contact you'll need to serve her with papers. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Wow, this is depressing as hell. Why did you make her have the abortions? You realize her saying that she feels like you are "taking away her choices" stems back to the abortions, right? That does something to a woman, even if they choose it. The strongest bond a woman will experience in her life is between her and her child, by forcing her to choose between you and her baby, you made her the murderer of something she would have died to protect. That's why her morals have changed, she feels like sh!t about herself and what she allowed to happen.

Do you love her enough to want her to happy and healthy, even if it means leaving you? If you want to be a better man, the answer would be yes. I'd let her contact him. This isn't going to go away because you ignore it and try to guard her from him. She needs to be the one in control, you took that away from her and are still doing so. She needs to be able to trust herself and her own decisions. This isn't going to happen overnight, it's a long process. You guilting or intimidating her into something will only prove in the long run that you haven't changed from the man who beat her up while she was carrying his child, then made her kill the baby that they were actually trying for. What a mindf*ck, my friend! Do you want her wondering the rest of her life about this guy like she's wondering about those babies? She's telling you she wants to contact him, believe her. You don't own and control her, accept that. Let her go and you may actually end up keeping her. Wouldn't it feel amazing if she actually chose you out of her own free will?

This doesn't mean that you just hang out while she's carrying on with another man, however. You also have work to do! You'll be going on your own exciting journey of self discovery! Intensive therapy is going to be taking your time for the foreseeable future, you wont have time for lady troubles. You need to focus on you and she needs to focus on her before you can focus "us". You have severe rage, control and self-esteem issues of your own. You're broken and you need to heal, dont let keeping tabs on her become your next problem. You are also worth something all on your own, without her. It's like you're in quicksand and the more you try to grab onto her, the more you will sink and drown both of you. Just take a deep breath and let go. I know it's hard to do but isn't being a better man worth it?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

OK, you both are screwed up,,, ppl, we get that, but she should NOT be getting into another relationship before abuse and IC.

Lilac23 touched on deep stuff there, and until she gets help, she won't heal.

Also as the guy said, nc is nc.
If you have to move out, do so. You won't be able to grow and heal watching her go out screwing him.
If anything, it will set you back.

IMHO, you should really try to talk her into abuse and IC.
Putting the relationships between you and her, and her and him on hold.
especially in light of what Lilac23 said.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm not saying she should get in another relationship, I'm saying he should not prevent her from doing anything, even if that includes contacting the other man. She's a grown woman, damaged or not. He has a history of forcing her into decisions, he needs to let go of her and let her develop her own sense of self.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Alright, so I'm back here again and I've never felt worse in my life.

On January 1st my SO wanted some time apart to think and she is staying with her father and for the time being we are separated. She only took a small bag of clothes for work and not much else. Now for some clarity the other man lives a few blocks away from where she is now. I talked to her a bit here and there and it turns out she hasn't even been sleeping at her fathers. Her clothes are there but after she gets out of work she spends every morning with him. Sleeping in his bed. 

She told me that they are not dating and that they haven't done anything. She said he allows her to sleep and she doesn't want to have to stay on her fathers couch and sleep. She also said that she is still thinking about what she wants to do, if we can fix things or not.

I still want to fix things and I am trying to give her space as best as I can but this is bothering me so much. She wanted space to think but is with this other man instead? 

When she first left and a few times after I told her that if she does want to come back that this house is still hers. Two days ago she said that she will call me on her day off(Thursday-Friday) so we can talk. I haven't heard from her since and yesterday she took her half of the rent out of our bank account. I said before that money is hers and if she isn't going to stay here during January she doesn't have to pay rent. But from this I feel like she isn't coming back. Has she already decided to be with him?

I'm really worried for her because she told me that she needed space from me so that she can think about all that she wants to do. She hasn't even spent time alone to reflect and is filling the space with spending time with this guy. From what she told me they just hang out and talk, sleep if they are tired, and they flirt. I suggested before that she see a therapist because what has happened is hurting us both and we are both acting irrationally. She told me that, "if she wanted to she would go", but the attitude I got... I know her too well, she doesn't want to talk to someone. She hasn't even talked to her father even though he knows everything that has happened. I've been opening up to him and talking more than she has. He told me last night that she still hasn't really talked to him and that he isn't going to pry.

How can I approach this situation? I still want to be with her and I don't care if she's with him now because we technically aren't together, but I want her to come back home. I want to tell her how I am changing to become a better person. 

I don't think it's good for her to rush into whatever she is doing with him but I know there isn't anything I can say or do to help her. I want to save her from hurting herself or being hurt from him and I'm powerless.

I've lost 12lbs this past month because I am so depressed and with her leaving this house it's been getting worse. I only eat a little bit before I'm full and that's just once a day. I continue to drink juice and water to help me keep going but I know that's not enough. I also only sleep 2 hours at a time, I have literally only slept a total of 12 hours in the past 8 days(since she left)

What do I do now? I'm going to let be and do what she wants but even she told me, "If I get with him and he hurts me it's my own life and I'll have to learn from it." Why put yourself in that position? I don't understand anything that has been going on lately and I'm slowly losing myself every day.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Learn from this and move on.....she has demonstrated her answer to you.....she may not end up with him but it's clear she is not ready to go back to the life she had with you....just file and move on....and learn to be a better man.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

KredPandak said:


> Alright, so I'm back here again and I've never felt worse in my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let her go, she is lying and you are in denial. You need to focus on you and get your head straight. You can't do that if you are buying into her cheating bull crap. 

You guys have a difficult history, and even without the infidelity it would be difficult to repair. It would take both of you to be fully committed. Clearly she is not. She spends every night with him, but says she is at her fathers. You call her out on that and now she claims she is just sleeping there? No sex? Tell me you don't really believe that? 

Deal with the facts, not what she "claims". The facts tell me she is a cheat and a liar. Maybe she is scared of you, who knows. But let her go, do it graciously, maybe you can repair things down the road. But first you got to fix you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

You have to put your big boy trousers on buckle up and look straight in the mirror and say

*'From today I'm a better person'*

This life experience will have cost you months/years of pain BUt its one you will come out of stronger and more able to handle relationships

*She has made her choice*

*You have to make yours*

Do you really want to hang around waiting for her to tire of her new boyfriend and possibly come back ....even if she does after doing this once the next time 
will be a lot easier for her, if you read how people who partake in infidelity progress

Go to a lawyer and get the papers served to her at her BF house in the morning while she's in his bed

The longer you take the more she will play you

It may wake her up


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Wow, how's the nice guy track working for you? For me, it looks like she has won the battle while you pine away losing weight, getting depressed and losing your sanity. She is living rent free, probably having sex, gets to flirt and has a home to come back to if it doesn't work out.

She isn't being irrational you are.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So? He'd already be in counseling and taking anger management classes without the suggestion. He wouldn't be saying, it was a long time ago if he understood. He wouldn't be trying to equalize the acts, which means he has done this with his SO, if he "knows he did wrong." He beat his wife, claims he is recovering and then promptly went to work and used abusive tactics again.
> He is an abusive man and has shown nothing, but words to show he kind of grasps the situation. What he has shown is he is scared of losing the woman he controls. If he really knows and understand he'd let her go.
> 
> Good thing she isn't here I'd be telling her to go to a abuse shelter, disown this dude and never talk to him again. No, marriage counseling only occurs AFTER they both get IC and even then she should say no.


I can't argue with that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

eric1 said:


> You need to be prepared to divorce her immediately if she breaks No Contact, otherwise you WILL be living in an open relationship.
> 
> The next No Contact break after a No Contact of no consequences is a downhill plan.
> 
> ...


Yeah! Because he can always beat her up again, right? 

The expression "author of his own misfortune" comes to mind.

******

OP Whilst you should be mindful of any possible interaction between your woman and the Knight in Shining Armour (KISA) you are aware that in your relationship No Contact should mean No Contact between your fist and her face, right?

And Eric, how or what papers could be served when they aren't married?

OP you need to let her go.

But do get counselling to have yourself fixed or you will beat and hit your way out of the next and every subsequent relationship you get into.

For now, seek legal advice, and get help from your doctor in the short and the long term.

If you can't eat, but can drink, try protein shakes.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

opps ....they aren't married



G.J. Takes Note:
Don't skip posts


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

G.J. said:


> opps ....they aren't married
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll take that note, too.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's made her choice. Let her go.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

I'll try my best to reply to everyone in this one post.

I will never raise my hand to anyone again, that I know. On the topic of getting help, my friend/co-worker let me open up to him about everything and he gave me the number to his therapist. I have appointments setup so that I can better myself as an individual.

Right now, I believe that she is with him intimately but I know that she has her own mental issues and she refuses to get help. I want her to go to counselling too but she wont listen to anyone. Even now shes dodging phone calls from her mother and sister and I have more contact with her family than she does. 

I still love her because deep down I know why she is doing what she is doing. She doesn't know what she wants with life and she is just giving herself to this KISA. It's not good for her to ignore everyone in her family. Even if we aren't together she needs to talk to them at the very least.

Also, she still has everything in this house with me. All she has is a few pairs of clothing. All her makeup, jewelry, clothing, everything is here. I don't want to just pack her things and move them to her fathers for her because I don't want to upset or hurt her. I've done enough to hurt her but I don't want to be a doormat either...



If I missed anything let me know and I'll try to respond as clearly as I can.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

It is time to let go. 


At this far too much damage has been done from both sides. Just go no contact with her. It is the best for both of you. As long as you keep validating her and act with too much guilt, you risk spoiling her too much.

Apologize, therapy and let her go


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

From my pov, she doesn't owe you or your relationship a thing. It was broken a long time ago. 

She's a battered woman, so psychologically she's too messed up to know what's good for her, hence her limbo. Let her do what she wants on her own, you are powerless right now to sway her in any way. You have zero street cred. 

Since she's in confused limbo, you need to step up and LET HER GO. Theres nothing better you could do for her than get her started down a path without you so she can learn to deal with her own issues. Pack her stuff kindly, leave it at her dad's, go completely NC, and work on yourself. Avoid her if she comes back to you. She doesn't know any better because she's damaged. Ignore her, you are no good for her in your present condition and I think you know it, as much as you wish otherwise. You can't help her. She needs to learn to help herself. 

Sorry to sound harsh, but right now you should only be responsible for taking care of yourself. Don't assume a position to care for her until you are BETTER and have done the HARD work to BE a better man and you KNOW IT. If you wish to be a future father, then your Future happiness depends on you absorbing some reality here. 

Just because you love her, doesn't make you right for each other. She's no angel but sometimes a person needs to know when to fold and be OK with it. 

All the best to you.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

So basically, from what you've written here so far, she made sure that you weren't going to throw her out(and you aren't, so far). She said that she was going to stay at her Father's(and she didn't) and proceeded to stay with the OM. Btw, if you think that she's just seeping in his bed and there's now sexual contact at all, well, I've got a bridge for you to buy.

She's seeing if her and the OM are compatible enough to live together, i.e. she then leaves you for good. So if it doesn't work out then o.k., she give R a try with you.

Regardless of what you've done to her in the past and whether you think that you deserve this, you are firmly placed as plan B. The OM is plan A. And if it works out between them this thread will become moot because she'll only be returning to your place to pick up the rest of her belongings.

You're being played and the worst part is you knew ahead of time, but still allowed it. I'm sorry friend, but it's over between you two. Even if it doesn't work out with the OM and she comes back to you, it won't be for long. I feel at this point, anything you do to save what relationship you have with this woman will paramount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. This ship is headed to the depths and I doubt that there's anything that you can do to keep it afloat.

Sorry, but that's the way is see it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> So basically, from what you've written here so far, she made sure that you weren't going to throw her out(and you aren't, so far). She said that she was going to stay at her Father's(and she didn't) and proceeded to stay with the OM. Btw, if you think that she's just seeping in his bed and there's now sexual contact at all, well, I've got a bridge for you to buy.
> 
> She's seeing if her and the OM are compatible enough to live together, i.e. she then leaves you for good. So if it doesn't work out then o.k., she give R a try with you.
> 
> ...


And what advantage has the OM got over the OP?

He apparently respects her and has never come close to raising his voice to her, let alone raising his fist to her.

Not a Walk Away Wife but a Chased Away Wife.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think you just need to let her go and move on. She's afraid of you, that's why she's not telling you the truth.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;

HER
3:21PM
Leave it in his mailbox. I'm not quite ready to talk yet

ME
3:52pm
I'm going to hold onto it. We do have to discuss the bank though. I saw you took the rent out. If your not staying here are you moving out? If so I will need the house keys and you will need to come get your things.

HER
3:54pm
I'm not staying there, told you give me a month and you said I could take the money if I wasn't staying there
You got extra money so I don't see why it's an issue for me to take my money

ME
3:57pm
The money isn't the issue. This is not a storage facility. If you aren't living here then you can't leave all your stuff here. I'll be grabbing some boxes from work tonight and tomorrow I'll pack all your things. You need to decide what you want and while you are with him you cannot devote yourself to me. Right now we are separate so we will separate out things.

HER
3:58pm
So you just want to be a **** that's why you wanted to talk to me? Just leave the letter in his mailbox

ME
3:58pm
You have a place here if you want to pay rent but if you aren't going to pay rent then you can't stay for free and that goes the same with your things in here. That's not what is going to happen.

HER
3:58pm
You threw me out

ME
3:59pm
No. I didn't
I said you have a place to stay

HER
3:59pm
You told me leave before that

ME
3:59pm
You are the one that took the rent out.
I said if you pay the rent you can stay.
This is why I wanted to talk it face to face.

HER
4:00pm
How would me living there work? I get my own room? We don't talk and just live there until one or both can move?

ME
4:02pm
Idk how that would work but how do you think this will work now? You get to avoided paying rent but I have to keep all your things protected for free? No, if you didn't pay the rent on a storage facility they would sell your things. I'm not doing that. I'm just going to bring them to your fathers if you can't be here. It will help you as well because I know you don't have much for clothes and other things. Makeup and such.

HER
4:03pm
Just ****ing throw it away I have no where to put anything

ME
4:03pm
I'm not throwing your things away. I will pack them nice and well into boxes so you can have everything.

HER
4:03pm
Whatever

ME
4:05pm
You need to understand this is what it is going to be like if we are not together. The next step from moving your things out is that we need to close the bank account because we cannot just remove a person from it. I asked them while I was there today and they said it has to be closed completely.

HER
4:05pm
If you close it you'd have to remove the money

ME
4:05pm
You can still come back and we can still try to fix this but if that is not what you want to do then I cannot force you.
Yes exactly why it was so important that we talk.

HER
4:06pm
Well I have to figure out **** with laundry and helping my mother go food shopping so I have a lot of **** to do
Today

ME
4:08pm
Well you know my number. I'm open to talking with you about everything and the problems aren't going away just because you don't want to talk. If you make the decision to not pay rent then have the decency to tell me don't just take the money out because like I said we have to talk about this. And I hate doing through this stupid texting nonsense

HER
4:09pm
I'll call you tomorrow then

ME
4:10pm
That's not going to work. If we can't talk today then when I go into work tonight I will be getting boxes so that I can pack your things. I'm not going to be waiting on you to call. You said you would talk to me yesterday and I didnt hear from you. Then I thought you would call today and you said you still arent ready to talk.

HER
4:11pm
I have to take my mother food shopping and do laundry today
Then just throw my **** out, take out your money and close the account

ME
4:11pm
That's fine, I go into work at 9 so for the next two hours I'm available. I haven't been sleeping and would like to take a nap so if you want to talk I suggest we just get it out of the way now
I'm not going to disrespect you like that.
I'm sorry i've been smothering you and I'm sorry the way I've been treating you but you need to understand that I have feelings too.
I will treat you with respect if we are together or not and that means if you don't pay rent then I will help you move out. If you change your mind and want to fix this now is the time to speak up. I am still willing to work on all of the issues at hand and dedicate my life to your needs emotional and otherwise. It is just your choice if you want that from me or not.


After that she didn't respond. I'm not going to throw her things out and I am, like I said, going to respect her. I hope I went about this in the right way. I only want to treat her right and be a better person to her from here on out.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Get your money out of the bank account before she does. If she withdrawals it you have zero recourse as her name is on the account. So, remove the money and close it. Like yesterday.

She is trying to guilt you into storing her stuff. Don't fall for it. Pack it nice and drop it off in OM's lawn. She is staying with him now, he should have to deal with it, not her father. >


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Definitely get your money out yesterday. Change the locks.

Pack her stuff move it to a storage facility and send her the key and Bill.

I'd go ahead and file. There is no future here for either of you.

Stop all the contact. You've nothing to discuss now.

Writing letters are meaningless.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Your relationship is over. Too much water under the bridge. 

If you truly love this woman, then do the right thing. Let her go and do it as smoothly as possible. 

This means you'll have to follow through on your promise to pack up her stuff and deliver it to her dad's house (or wherever for storage).

This means close the banking account. 

And MOST importantly.......this means _never_ contacting her again.

If you really want to be kind to her, you'll ask her mother, father, siblings (anyone who loves her) to help her heal from the abuse she endured at your hands. Then Walk Away and NEVER contact her or any of her friends/family again.

Finally, as others have already stated, get yourself some serious psychological help.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

Lila said:


> Finally, as others have already stated, get yourself some serious psychological help.


This^^^^^

OP you are a control freak. The entire text thread is you trying to micro manage her and control the outcome.

From you friend Billy Joel:

_Some love is just a lie of the soul
A constant battle for the ultimate state of control
After you've heard lie upon lie
There can hardly be a question of why_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

All of her responses scream exhaustion with you. Are you going to talk her to death and ask permission and agreement on everything or are you going to act and get on with what you need to do?


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;
> 
> HER
> 3:21PM
> ...




That was absolutely hard to read. The begging is pretty bad at the end. Maybe your intentions are not that, nut it still comes off pretty manipulative from her end.It was so pathetic that even she did not respond back. She would even bother to turn her head if you got hit by a truck in the current situation. Do not slyly try to insert talk about reconciliation, That just looks like you are manipulating her while talking about her stuff.

The talk about treating her right is too late now. Now she is turning into a ****ty person with how she is treating you. Whether you deserve it or not, now is not the time. 

No more texts about reconciling, Take your money. Give her a dead line. And do not talk anything more than that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KredPandak said:


> Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;
> 
> HER
> 3:21PM
> ...


I'd be interested for you to tell us why she should "devote" herself to a person who used her as a punching bag?

You could have been the man here. "OK, sorry things ended this way. Sorry I physically hurt you. That was bad of me and I apologise for that. Look, you need a few weeks to get your head together, I'll be cool with that. If you need any help with collecting your belongings after the two weeks, please let me know."

But instead you wanted to play the Heman. "Rah! Watch me flex my muscles!"

Do you actually intend to rid yourself of your bullying, angry, nasty persona that thinks beating on women is right?

I am now beginning to doubt that you do.

In my opinion you need deep, intensive therapy. I hope you are man enough to do this. But as I say, I have my doubts.

I genuinely hope I am wrong. for your sake, as it is not good to go through life angry, bitter and aggressive.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for the bravery to post it unadulterated. Look, you are a reforming, you are not reformed, abuser. Yep, you are still controlling. I was cringing reading the exchange.

If I read that in real time, as the abused SO, you removed almost all doubt in my mind I made the right choice to leave.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And what advantage has the OM got over the OP?
> 
> He apparently respects her and has never come close to raising his voice to her, let alone raising his fist to her.
> 
> Not a Walk Away Wife but a Chased Away Wife.


When you are right, you are very very right.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

KredPandak said:


> Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;
> 
> HER
> 3:21PM
> ...


Interesting conversation. Your love for her comes through brilliantly. Your need to totally control what she does is also clear. And you did a wonderful job on ultimatums.

If I were her, I'd run so far and so fast that you'd never see me again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> When you are right, you are very very right.


Thank you, Sidney!

But I take no pleasure in being right this time.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

K, there's just too much damage man !!

You keep saying you want to be a better man. Well let her go.

This relationship was your training ground for the rest of your life.
Pack her stuff up, take it to her father, and wish her well.

You can't get better focusing on her now. This is a grown woman with sexual feelings for another man. 
The only reason she telling you they not doing anything, is fear of what you will do.

The big thing I see is you being co/dependent.
You are not seeing what we are telling you.

You and her will NOT heal as long as you two are together.
Also, it's not just you and her,, her family kicked her out remember.
You think that hasn't affected her to??

You and her was co/dependent until she bonded with him, now she is gone.
So it's time for you to grow into the man you want to be.
Thank her for the years you had together, give her a BIG hug, and let her go.

That's the best thing you can do for her at this time.
I say that, cuz you and we know she needs IC, but as long as you are there to pick up the pieces, she won't get help. So remove yourself


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

You have very little to no chance to get back with her again. And you lose that tiny minuscule chance by hanging on an asking her back again. Let her go. Once you've detached enough, you will see .


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

There are quite a few telling things in your exchange, but the key is her cursing at you then ignoring you after the last exchange. Anyone who has been or worked with abused people KNOW it is a huge step in breaking the fear. She told you no and then used foul language when you tried to be controlling. Let her go, she is done with you. Plus, for you to recover, you can't be around your addiction. You have already conditioned yourself to hit and be controlling when she doesn't follow your direction. You fell right back into the same pattern when she balked at your directions.

You can never become a new man with her. Sorry, I know, there is the rare person who can, but the text exchange shows it isn't you.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

I really could use someone to talk to right now. I packed all her things and they are in my truck. We haven't had time to meet so that I could bring them to her fathers. She just texted me while I was at work saying that she is urinating blood and that it feels "tingly" down there. She said she will be going to the ER when she gets out of work. I then asked her if she has had sex recently and she said about 2 days ago. I'm not mad that she's been intimate with him but I'm really scared for her because I don't want anything else to happen to her. I told her that if she needs anything at all to let me know because I am really worried and she said thanks. 

Is it possible that it is just a UTI? or is it more likely that he could have had a STI and she just didn't catch it the first time they were together?

It's almost 3:00am at the time of my posting this and she should be out of work soon. Her father will give her a ride to the ER and she told me that she would keep me updated but I'm worried that the worst has just happened to her. I know I'm not a saint and I've ****ed up her life enough but I just can't stop thinking, "what if she has something that cant be cured?" She would have to live with that the rest of her life....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It could be a UTI. They are quite common in women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Thanks for the quick response... I hadn't even thought about it until now but it's also possible that shes pregnant.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Look dude you need to stop thinking about her. You need to desperately remove yourself from her and her family. What you're doing is prolonging your misery. Separate yourself completely, and do not communicate with her family.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Sparta said:


> Look dude you need to stop thinking about her. You need to desperately remove yourself from her and her family. What you're doing is prolonging your misery. Separate yourself completely, and do not communicate with her family.


I don't know how... I'm not a sociable person and I've never been one to go out to bars or anything like that. Even now I feel like every day I'm coming home to a place that we shared many years in and all the things here remind me of her. We've bought furniture together and this is our first apartment. I know I have to distance myself from these emotions but I don't have any outlets and once I'm back home I just dwell on all my mistakes. 

I'm about to cry just writing all this because I want to be healthy and this is causing me so much sleep deprivation and I'm still not eating right. I really have nothing in my life to distract me from her even after she is long gone...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Then do something about it. There are millions of single people out there - many on TAM. Of course if you come back to an empty place full of memories you will feel like sh*t. So don't.

Don't cop out with the "I'm not social" BS. Many many of us have little to no social life when our life is devoted to work, relationship and family. That's actually pretty normal in my experience.

So things have changed and you have to change too. The only reason you're not social is because you're not social. Just go out. Go to the library and read a magazine around other people. Go to the gym and work out around other people. Go to a theater or coffee shop and hang near other people. 

Make small talk - the weather is fine. Go to the grocery store and hang around lost in the produce section and ask someone for advice on which Apple variety is best to just chomp on. Go to a wine bar and act confused next to someone nice looking and say you don't know how to pick a glass of red wine.

People are in these places because they want to be there and most people will talk about a topic they like. That's why I mention the produce and wine ideas - people can be very interested in talking about things they know about.

Even the library... Pick a section - sci fi, for example - and hang around. Someone will wander through and if they have a nice face, ask for advice on a good sci fi series. They'll probably be passionate about one and next thing you know you're talking.

Our town library has a board for meet ups on all kinds of topics.

The key to learning to be social is to find something someone else is passionate and ask them about it, listen, ask clarifying questions (really? Why do you prefer this type of wine? ... Is there a second favorite you have? ...) and be interested in their responses. People love to hear themselves talk. Believe it or not, you could do this for 15 minutes with someone, saying very little but being engaged, and they will think you are a great conversationalist!

Once you start, pick something that sounds interesting, and join a meetup or club and make like-minded friends.

Boom - now you're social!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

KredPandak said:


> I talked to her a bit here and there and it turns out she hasn't even been sleeping at her fathers. Her clothes are there but after she gets out of work she spends every morning with him. Sleeping in his bed.
> 
> She told me that they are not dating and that they haven't done anything. She said he allows her to sleep and she doesn't want to have to stay on her fathers couch and sleep.


What a crock. And you believed her?

The relationship is dead, dude. Just move on.

Are you seeing a therapist yet?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Like matt said, uti's are very common in women. 

It's not your issue now, unless it turns out to be something you could have. If that happens hopefully she'll let you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

KredPandak said:


> I don't know how... I'm not a sociable person and I've never been one to go out to bars or anything like that. Even now I feel like every day I'm coming home to a place that we shared many years in and all the things here remind me of her. We've bought furniture together and this is our first apartment. I know I have to distance myself from these emotions but I don't have any outlets and once I'm back home I just dwell on all my mistakes.
> 
> I'm about to cry just writing all this because I want to be healthy and this is causing me so much sleep deprivation and I'm still not eating right. I really have nothing in my life to distract me from her even after she is long gone...


You are dealing with a loss. It's normal to be sad, and it's okay to grieve that loss. It's every bit as painful as a love one dying. In some ways worse as you reopen the wound every time you contact her, or she contacts you.

You don't have kids with her, so you can cut contact. Do it, do it as quickly as you can. There is no relationship to save, just more pain by stringing things out. If she does have an STD or is pregnant from this guy, you need to not be safe landing place for her. You don't want her getting mad at him and coming back to you out of fear of being alone. She knows you care and thinks that if her new boy doesn't work out she can come back. That should not be a possibility.

The sooner you go no contact with her, the sooner some of the pain you are feeling can be constructively channeled into your own healing. Feeling mad? Good time to work out. Can't sleep? practice some meditation, take an online course. Hit the library and get some self help books so you have reading material. You are in control of your own happiness. Take some time and figure out what that means to you. Not based on anyone else. You, and just you. What does a happy KredPandak look like?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ugh.

Just dump her crap at her father's house and cut contact.

Geez.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I don't know how... I'm not a sociable person and I've never been one to go out to bars or anything like that. Even now I feel like every day I'm coming home to a place that we shared many years in and all the things here remind me of her. We've bought furniture together and this is our first apartment. I know I have to distance myself from these emotions but I don't have any outlets and once I'm back home I just dwell on all my mistakes.
> 
> I'm about to cry just writing all this because I want to be healthy and this is causing me so much sleep deprivation and I'm still not eating right. I really have nothing in my life to distract me from her even after she is long gone...


Take her stuff to her father's and drop it off. You don't need her there to do so. You don't need to see her or meet her. Go home, clean the house, rearrange the furniture. 

Get up early tomorrow and go for a run. Start doing that every morning. Go join a gym and start lifting some weights. Get yourself into a good regimen. You'll stop thinking about her, when you get her out of your life. You need to get into some counseling while you're doing the rest of this.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

KredPandak said:


> I don't know how... I'm not a sociable person and I've never been one to go out to bars or anything like that. Even now I feel like every day I'm coming home to a place that we shared many years in and all the things here remind me of her. We've bought furniture together and this is our first apartment. I know I have to distance myself from these emotions but I don't have any outlets and once I'm back home I just dwell on all my mistakes.
> 
> I'm about to cry just writing all this because I want to be healthy and this is causing me so much sleep deprivation and I'm still not eating right. I really have nothing in my life to distract me from her even after she is long gone...



Hitting the gym and becoming Mr. Social are all superficial fixes. They are equivalent to putting a coat of paint on a house with a crumbling foundation. You need to be working on fixing the inside. Have you scheduled your anger management courses yet? What about the individual counseling? Have you made any progress doing what the Domestic hotline people told you to do? Less talk......more action. 

If you can't control your penchant for physically hurting women, then you'll never be able to sustain a successful future relationship.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS who she screws, how many times or who it may be. Look, you abused her, it all starts and ends with your actions. Delete her number, drop all her things off at her father's house and find a new hobby. If you can get a transfer somewhere else, to work, leave the city.

You need to do something.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

You are not helping her by letting her contact you and still trying to help her...Go minimal contact. You are in no position to help and you are being looked as a pest/


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I have talked to someone via The National Domestic Violence Hotline and he gave me a number to a local help center. He explained that this is not going to be easy but I am taking the first step and that is a good thing. He also said that only a minority of men who attend BIPP's actually complete them successfully. I don't want to be one of those people.
> 
> I called this place and left them a message. I don't know what to expect going into this but I'm going to see this through. I will try to call them again in the morning so I might be able to set up an appointment.


This was 35 days ago. What have you done in that direction?
I'm glad the link I posted on page 2 helped but I posted it for a different reason. Some people suggested marriage counseling and I just posted the link to show that there shouldn't be any marriage counseling for abusive relationships. 

You say you stopped hitting her a while ago but still with almost every post that you make you show how controlling and manipulative are. Maybe you stopped abusing her physically but you kept abusing her emotionally/mentally. 

Yes, she is done. Let her go. Work on yourself, for you only. That way you can be a better person for the next person you date.

As for your SO or ex SO, I just hope that she's not sick and even if she is, I hope it won't make her vulnerable and weak to the point of coming back to you. 

How come you never decided to become a better person BEFORE she started seeing OM? 

I'm sorry, but I don't see much sincerity from you. I wish you all the best and I hope you can be honest with yourself, do some soul searching and start working on becoming a better man. For you. It's too late for her.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Is it possible that it is just a UTI? or is it more likely that he could have had a STI and she just didn't catch it the first time they were together?


No


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;
> 
> HER
> 3:21PM
> ...



Rent is not an option.

You are also allowing things to seesaw, unable to let go.
this is not uncommon, but if you don't let **** go, it will build up until you break (read "no more mr nice guy" for ideas about how that happens)

You should: (1) man up.
If she's left then don't go _asking_ her what she wants to do. That is just you trying to stay in the relationship. Anything the remaining partner does at this point is _automatically_ and _instantly_ WRONG. There is nothing you can do with a STBX to build a bridge, all they will end up doing is hurting you. I have yet to find a situation where that is not the case.
You have to use the space to do your stuff - because that's what they actually want... simply not to be about your s...t.

So pack her stuff in boxes. stick it in a room.
Tell them you will either drop it off a "date & time", do they want to arrange to pick it up before then.

No "rent" BS. that's just continuing a relationship/contract.
If they want back they can come back; if gone you're already heads up.

They don't want to pick it up? pay for a weeks storage tell them where it is, and it's not your problem anymore.

Don't want to do the labor? don't want to part with a weeks storage fees? Want to "bust their stuff"? That brings me to (#2), don't be a whiny little *****.

Being an arse is what got you into this mess. Being a civil human who just deals with his own problems, is the only acceptable functional way out.

- - -
Re: money. Put your half in your own account. cancel any overdrafts. you can get credit cards revoked or your name removed. write a letter to the bank (take your own copy, make sure it is dated) tell them you are no longer accepting responsibility for charges/transactions to the joint account and that they do so under their own risk. Keep a proper reconcilation of what balances where there so there is an accurate paper trail - again no Bullst excuses of tit for tat or "what I'm owed" or "but she did/owed/etc" just split it fair. 
If they have arguments, then it's a different day, and you're days/weeks/months down the track - at the moment you'll just get stress answers and other such "handling stuff" answers.
Don't do them favor by leaving extra, unless you want to see it go a thankless bye bye; but don't be an arse and hurt them even if you want to, otherwise you'll just get dragged into stuff later. Do it fair, as a biased legal judge would see it fair, and get your own life back.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

K, understand this. You are dealing with years of your own guilt for abusing her, and a form co/dependency.
So your best chance of growing is dropping off her stuff and no co contact.

You don't have to go to bars, find some meetings. Don't matter what kind at 1st, just get out of the house.
As also asked, what have you done to set up IC and anger IC ?

NOTHING I bet.

So it's starting to look as if you just looking for help to get her back, instead of growing.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Sorry I haven't had time to reply back I will try to fill in all the missing pieces as best I can.

As for the dropping things off at her fathers house;
I work nights and Fri-Sat I got boxes from work. Saturday morning around 6am I texted her father asking when he will be home because I have her stuff to drop off. He told me that he wasn't home at the time and that he would let me know. I haven't heard from him since and I honestly think he's just ignoring me, why? I can't say but all of her things have been in my truck for almost 3 days now. I'm not trying to force her to be home when I drop things off but her father isn't making this easy for me either. I think the best option might actually be what @spotthedeaddog suggested. Get a storage unit and let her know that's where all her things are.

The topic of bettering myself with Therapy;
I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but one of my co-workers gave me the number to his personal therapist. I have been discussing things with her(over the phone) and we have set-up an initial meeting. She has even said that the fact I have some clarity as to why I am this way is a big step forward. I told her that it is all attributed to this forum and that's the truth. Without the people here giving me an outside look into my actions/life I wouldn't have this clarity in my life.
@Annie123 - Why didn't I try to change before? 
Sadly, I didn't even know that I had such huge problems. No one really knew our relationship issues except for the two of us and now that I've opened up here I can see how terrible I really was. I can see that everyone here is trying to help in their own way and I really do appreciate it. I don't think I ever would have known this much about myself if it wasn't for the people here being brutally honest with me.


I know I am far from being healthy and after reading all of these responses I know I need to be alone right now. At first I thought that I could become a better person with her and it could possibly work out but I can see that isn't an option anymore. I won't beg of plead and I won't be contacting her anymore. I've done too much for this to work out so now I need to start putting 100% of my focus into self-improvement. It's true, I will not be able to fix myself while she is still in my life. I'm latching onto the fact that she is lingering around and it's only doing harm. 

I will still come back here to give little updates as to how I am doing because even the hurtful things said here have opened my eyes. I value the input that everyone has given me and will do what I have to do to become a better person for my next relationship. I have a long road ahead of me but I'm glad I can come here for advice and input if I start screwing up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kred, I think you'll be fine. You have introspection, and that's a great gift you're giving yourself.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Her and I have just talked, (awkwardly through facebook.) I told her that I had a letter to give her. In the letter it describes how I feel but I did not tell her what is in it. This is the conversation that we had;
> 
> HER
> 3:21PM
> Leave it in his mailbox. I'm not quite ready to talk yet


She's not ready, leave her alone. And for the love of God, don't giver her a letter about your feelbads when she's staying with another man. Do you want them reading it together?



KredPandak said:


> ME
> 3:52pm
> I'm going to hold onto it. We do have to discuss the bank though. I saw you took the rent out. If your not staying here are you moving out? If so I will need the house keys and you will need to come get your things.


Controlling or manipulating much?



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 3:54pm
> I'm not staying there, told you give me a month and you said I could take the money if I wasn't staying there
> You got extra money so I don't see why it's an issue for me to take my money
> ...


Did you tell her she could take the money? If so, why are you b!tching about it now? Not exactly going to bring her running back to your consistent, solid arms.



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 3:58pm
> So you just want to be a **** that's why you wanted to talk to me?


I concur with her feelings and statement.



KredPandak said:


> ME
> 3:58pm
> You have a place here if you want to pay rent but if you aren't going to pay rent then you can't stay for free and that goes the same with your things in here. That's not what is going to happen.


So did you say she could take the money or not? Or are you an indian giver?



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 3:58pm
> You threw me out
> 
> ...


She has a place to stay with conditions, YOUR conditions! Have you made your therapy appt yet?




KredPandak said:


> ME
> 3:59pm
> You are the one that took the rent out.
> I said if you pay the rent you can stay.
> This is why I wanted to talk it face to face.


Utter bullsh!t, man. You wanted to talk face to face so you could give her a sob story letter or emotionally manipulate or control her into coming home. 



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:00pm
> How would me living there work? I get my own room? We don't talk and just live there until one or both can move?


I actually think she was considering it and possibly trying to establish terms but then you go and...



KredPandak said:


> ME
> 4:02pm
> Idk how that would work but how do you think this will work now? You get to avoided paying rent but I have to keep all your things protected for free? No, if you didn't pay the rent on a storage facility they would sell your things. I'm not doing that. I'm just going to bring them to your fathers if you can't be here. It will help you as well because I know you don't have much for clothes and other things. Makeup and such.


You're not 'nicely boxing up things' for her benefit, how long has she been gone? How long did she pay rent while you sat on your @$$ playing video games? You just recently got a job, correct? Then you try to pretend your sh!tty behavior is for her benefit because she needs 'makeup and such'. 



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:03pm
> Just ****ing throw it away I have no where to put anything
> 
> ...


What a nice guy you are! 



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:03pm
> Whatever
> 
> ...


She does, that's why she left.


KredPandak said:


> The next step from moving your things out is that we need to close the bank account because we cannot just remove a person from it. I asked them while I was there today and they said it has to be closed completely.


You talked to her like she's a moron, if you don't her to have access to your money, then take it out of the bank and open your own account.



KredPandak said:


> ME
> 4:05pm
> You can still come back and we can still try to fix this but if that is not what you want to do then I cannot force you.
> Yes exactly why it was so important that we talk.


Manipulative, manipulative, manipulative! You are trying to force her, don't you see that?



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:06pm
> Well I have to figure out **** with laundry and helping my mother go food shopping so I have a lot of **** to do
> Today
> ...


Still trying to force her to see you in person. :banghead:




KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:09pm
> I'll call you tomorrow then
> 
> ...


Maybe she doesn't want to talk to you? Maybe you should give her want she wants...



KredPandak said:


> HER
> 4:11pm
> I have to take my mother food shopping and do laundry today
> Then just throw my **** out, take out your money and close the account
> ...


Passive aggressive.



KredPandak said:


> so if you want to talk I suggest we just get it out of the way now
> I'm not going to disrespect you like that.


What a nice guy! Not the least bit controlling or demanding she does things on _your_ terms or anything.



KredPandak said:


> I'm sorry i've been smothering you and I'm sorry the way I've been treating you but _you need to understand that I have feelings too_.


So does she. 



KredPandak said:


> I will treat you with respect if we are together or not


Lie.



KredPandak said:


> If you change your mind and want to fix this now is the time to speak up.


Ultimatum?



KredPandak said:


> I am still willing to work on all of the issues at hand and dedicate my life to your needs emotional and otherwise. It is just your choice if you want that from me or not.


She doesn't.



KredPandak said:


> I hope I went about this in the right way.


You didn't.

This may seem harsh but you need intensive psychotherapy, you have little empathy and lack insight into your own behavior. I am not at all endorsing her actions but you need a good long look in the mirror too. Leave her alone. If her possessions are bothering you that much, get a storage unit, pay the first month and send her the key. Don't harass her via text and email. It's not gonna bring her back and the type of behavior in those texts will drive her further away. Let her breathe and be a big girl all on her own.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Lilac23 said:


> This may seem harsh but you need intensive psychotherapy, you have little empathy and lack insight into your own behavior. I am not at all endorsing her actions but you need a good long look in the mirror too. Leave her alone. If her possessions are bothering you that much, get a storage unit, pay the first month and send her the key. Don't harass her via text and email. It's not gonna bring her back and the type of behavior in those texts will drive her further away. Let her breathe and be a big girl all on her own.


I knew from the start that continuing to post here would be harsh at times and I accept that. There is no way for me to grow as a person if I'm not told the truth about myself.

I'm glad you took the time to break down our conversation and I'm realizing more and more that what I say and how I say it is very important. 

In my head I thought I was just letting her know that if she didn't want to live here I would pack up her things for her and she could be on her way. I didn't realize it sounded like I was threatening her into staying or that I was giving her ultimatums. 

I take no enjoyment in the fact that I've treated and am still treating her with such disrespect. It seems every time her and I talk it just makes her feel worse and I can see why. The best thing I can do for her now is to leave her alone and that is exactly what I will be doing. 

For myself I'll try going to the library and bookstores for some self-help books to go alongside my own therapy. I will better myself one day at a time, starting with letting her go completely. I know it doesn't seem like it from my actions but I really do care for her and if I have to leave so that I can't hurt her anymore than that is exactly what I'll do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

One of my favorite books is Emotional Alchemy. I think you'll get a lot from it. It talks about how our brain is hardwired to certain 'solutions' to particular 'situations' when we are kids. Think of little superhighways in your brain: this works, so I'll try it again next time. And each time you use that 'solution,' the highways gets a little faster to GET to that solution each time. Like if you lied to avoid trouble, and you didn't get in trouble, you'll lie again. And again. By the time you're an adult, that solution is what you reach for unconsciously, as it's now been hardwired as your 'go-to solution.'

It's the same with people like you. You do stuff because you do it without thinking. Because it's worked in the past. But now you need to slow down and really THINK about what you're doing. Start some NEW solutions.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I knew from the start that continuing to post here would be harsh at times and I accept that. There is no way for me to grow as a person if I'm not told the truth about myself.


Do you have healthy relationships with family or friends that you can lean on right now? You need to be around people who are on your side and care about you. You need support!



KredPandak said:


> I'm glad you took the time to break down our conversation and I'm realizing more and more that what I say and how I say it is very important.


Tone is very important in conversations, it can make the difference between someone bending over backward to carry a heavy item to your car and winch it to your roof or standing there commenting how 'you a strong female' watching you do it. If i had been on the receiving end of your conversation., I probably would have called your bluff because most people don't like ultimatums. When someone says 'if you do this, then i'll do this' it's just human nature to blow past the line drawn in the sand. You might not even want to but feel you _have_ to in order to not be a chump who lets someone else tell you what to do.



KredPandak said:


> In my head I thought I was just letting her know that if she didn't want to live here I would pack up her things for her and she could be on her way. I didn't realize it sounded like I was threatening her into staying or that I was giving her ultimatums.


The gist is that you cannot trust yourself right now, correct? You are too emotionally involved to be in control or unbiased in your actions. It's not necessarily a failing on your part, it's how most people are when a relationship is potentially ending, you feel out of control and you want to regain some sort of power. It's a very scary feeling to lose your power and not be able to _make_ someone do what you want them to do.



KredPandak said:


> I take no enjoyment in the fact that I've treated and am still treating her with such disrespect. It seems every time her and I talk it just makes her feel worse and I can see why. The best thing I can do for her now is to leave her alone and that is exactly what I will be doing.


This is good ^^^, let her miss you! Every one has good and bad memories of people they have a relationship with, she won't remember the good when you are nagging her about bills, coming to get her stuff or guilting her into talking to you. The less contact, the better. She knows you love and want her, what she needs to know now is that you can be happy without her. Everyone wants the person who doesn't want them! :wink2:



KredPandak said:


> For myself I'll try going to the library and bookstores for some self-help books to go alongside my own therapy. I will better myself one day at a time, starting with letting her go completely. I know it doesn't seem like it from my actions but I really do care for her and if I have to leave so that I can't hurt her anymore than that is exactly what I'll do.


This is good too but you also need someone who supports you, while calling you on your sh!t. Have you checked out anger management programs in your area? They aren't usually too expensive and could be a good 'starter' if you cant afford therapy. 

Hang in there! The first step to changing is knowing you have an issue and having the desire to change. :toast:


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Thanks for the support! 

I will look into that book Emotional Alchemy. Right now I am reading I Am The Power Of Discovering Who You Really Are. I'm only through the first few hundred pages but I feel like it is really helping me understand that even though these things have happened I still matter too. I have to take care of myself and I decide what is important to me and my life.

As for the Anger Management, I have an initial meeting with a therapist this Saturday. I'm really nervous about what's going to happen there because I've never been to a therapist but I know it's for the best. When I spoke with her over the phone I told her that my main concern is the anger issues but that there are a many other things on my plate as well that I would like to address. 

Now, I just actually came from work and my ex asked if I could pick her up so that we could talk. We talked for some time and then I asked if I could unload the things into her fathers house. Once that was done I did exactly what another person suggested. I gave her a big hug and told her that I will always cherish the time we spent together and that I am happy she allowed me to enjoy this part of our lives together. We both cried and then I left. (God even now I'm crying typing this.) It's very hard right now and I'm having trouble containing my emotions but I'm going to persevere. 

I have family that I can turn too. I actually just recently had a good conversation with my own mother after ten years of no contact. She told me that no matter what she will always care and I know I can put the dirty past we had behind us. I'm going to try to get the most support I can so that I am not alone while I go through all of this.
EDIT: I just talked to my mother and will be meeting her on Thursday so we can talk. It's going to be a lot for me to get through, trying to open up after so long, but I feel like I can do this. One day at a time.

I know it's not much but I do want to thank everyone that has posted here and helped me on my way.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Well done


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let's talk about your mother.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Let's also talk about your relationship with your father.

Do you have any siblings?

Did you enjoy junior high / middle school?

Did you enjoy high school?

Did you have any relationships with women in the past which lasted over a year?


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Let's talk about your mother.


This is probably a good idea. I'm going to have a talk with her first and then come back to this topic.



Chuck71 said:


> Let's also talk about your relationship with your father.
> 
> Do you have any siblings?
> 
> ...


I never met my father. From what my mother told me he left her before I was born. 

I have 2 sisters, and I am the middle child of the three.

My school experience was, normal? I suppose. I didn't really enjoy it but I did get through it. I wasn't very popular but I always had my own set of friends that I was close too.

Other Relationships? - My ex and I met when we were very young and we just were in an 11 year relationship. I am 29 years old and she is the only person that I have ever had any type of relationship with. We really did grow up together and that's why it's so hard for me. While I was in high school I never really thought of girls in a dating way until she came around and there was just something about her at the time that pulled me in. No one ever made me feel that way so I never had the urge to talk to someone like we did.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

While you grew up..... did your mother date any? What type of men did she date?

What led to your communication breakdown with your mother?

Thanks for responding....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Was your younger sister's dad in your life?

As for her being your only real partner, IMO, this is often a mistake. You need to experience many different types of relationships and women to see what's a real, good fit for you. She may end up being a horrible fit for you, but you'd never know it. I always tell people to take a LOT of time alone. Learn to be ok alone. Learn to LIKE being alone. Why? Because once you do that, you really learn a lot about yourself, learn who you really are, what you stand for. And because you have discovered you're ok alone, when you run into a situation that feels wrong, you're capable of walking away instead of staying in it no matter what. Or you're capable of saying 'this isn't working for me; how are we going to fix it?'


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

And if you enjoy being alone... you will be more selective on allowing someone else to move in.

I can't count the times I have read posts where people get M because they were lonely.

And they wonder WTF their M was dead from the start.....


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Was your younger sister's dad in your life?


He was for some time but things between them didn't work out. Apparently years later my mother was put up in a mental facility because she had thoughts of killing all her children by driving off a bridge. I ended up spending a few months with my grandparents and at the time had no idea. I just thought it was like a vacation I must have been 6 or 7.




Chuck71 said:


> While you grew up..... did your mother date any? What type of men did she date?


After the relationship with my younger sisters father broke down she didn't date immediately. I can't recall when but she started to date men a lot and actually just blaze through them very quickly. By this time I was a young teenager possibly 10-15(I can't recall my exact age). Some of the men she dated I didn't have much interaction with because to be honest it seemed like she was just with them for sex. I just can't say for certain as I was too young to really understand what was going on.

I do remember two men very vividly. There was one man who had a son my age and every so often we went to his house and "slept over." I played with his son and had a great time. For months I started to look at him like a brother and thought that maybe this new guy could be the one.

The other man, one that she was seeing at the same time as this guy, would come to our house frequently. He wouldn't really talk to me much or anything like that but I know the two of them went out on dates and he would come to our house to "sleep over." 

This is the first and only time I've known my mother to cheat on anyone. She kept each man in the dark by allowing one come to her house and going herself to the other mans house.

I will always remember this conversation like it was yesterday because it had such an impact on my life. I don't know what provoked it but one day she sat me down and asked me how I felt about the two men. She wanted to know what I thought about her being with both of them and how I felt. 

I told her that I just don't understand *WHY* she would want to be with both of them. That I don't see or understand how she could do that knowing that one of her older boyfriends had actually had a wife. I said to her that she was in that position before and that I didn't know why she would choose to be that way too.

Soon after that she ended things with both men and eventually she found someone who she married and is still currently with now.

No matter what has ever happened in my life or will happen, because of her I know I will never cheat. I've seen it first hand growing up and even then I couldn't comprehend the appeal or desire of it all. My thoughts are if you want to be with someone else than end what you have first in order to pursue what you want. 



Chuck71 said:


> What led to your communication breakdown with your mother?


Well as I said originally, my Ex had actually moved in with me and my mother +her current husband at around the time I was 17. My mother told my Ex that she needed to get a job and help contribute or go back to school. If she was in school she wouldn't have to get a job but she would need to choose one. 

The decision was that she would get her GED and then try to get a job to help out. At the time because she wasn't an adult she needed a guardian signature to sign up for the GED classes. My mother then refused to sign them stating that, "she shouldn't get a GED and lower herself." (My older sister has a GED mind you)

Things continued to become stressful between us as she would accuse my Ex of not cleaning up around the house and not helping out. I knew that she was because while I was still going to school she would be at the house doing dishes, dusting, washing clothes(not other peoples but the curtains and such)

It came to a point where at the dinner table one day my mother said that if we didn't have X amount of money by the end of the month that we were going to be kicked out because we weren't contributing enough. At the time I was already giving her most of my paycheck and all I had left each week was about $50 for myself and whatever I needed for gas money. 

That night after she said this to us the two of us just left. We talked about it and decided why would we wait for her to kick us both out? We might as well just get it over with now and since then we were living together, on our own. That night we went to her friends house and slept over. From there we ended up staying with her father for idk how many years 2? 3?. After that we moved into our first apartment, the one I am still in right now.

Part of me wants to move out and find something else but part of me just wants to stay here because it's been my home for so long. I'm comfortably uncomfortable staying here. Just a bunch of mixed feelings about this place so I'm not sure where I'll be going from here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

KredPandak said:


> my Ex had actually moved in with me and my mother +her current husband at around the time I was 17. My mother told my Ex that she needed to get a job and help contribute or go back to school. If she was in school she wouldn't have to get a job but she would need to choose one.
> 
> The decision was that she would get her GED and then try to get a job to help out. At the time because she wasn't an adult she needed a guardian signature to sign up for the GED classes. My mother then refused to sign them stating that, "she shouldn't get a GED and lower herself." (My older sister has a GED mind you)
> 
> ...


I guarantee you her husband was pushing her to kick you guys out, or at least the girlfriend, or pony up a lot more money. He was giving her the 'I'm not paying for your ****ty kid and his sl*t girlfriend to live here. Either you figure out a way to make them pay more or I'm doing it myself.'


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> He was for some time but things between them didn't work out. Apparently years later my mother was put up in a mental facility because she had thoughts of killing all her children by driving off a bridge. I ended up spending a few months with my grandparents and at the time had no idea. I just thought it was like a vacation I must have been 6 or 7.


Was your mom ever abused by a guy she dated? Was she depressed a lot when you were growing up?



KredPandak said:


> I do remember two men very vividly. There was one man who had a son my age and every so often we went to his house and "slept over." I played with his son and had a great time. For months I started to look at him like a brother and thought that maybe this new guy could be the one.


That had to be difficult for you when they broke up. 



KredPandak said:


> Things continued to become stressful between us as she would accuse my Ex of not cleaning up around the house and not helping out. I knew that she was because while I was still going to school she would be at the house doing dishes, dusting, washing clothes(not other peoples but the curtains and such)
> 
> It came to a point where at the dinner table one day my mother said that if we didn't have X amount of money by the end of the month that we were going to be kicked out because we weren't contributing enough. At the time I was already giving her most of my paycheck and all I had left each week was about $50 for myself and whatever I needed for gas money.
> 
> That night after she said this to us the two of us just left. We talked about it and decided why would we wait for her to kick us both out? We might as well just get it over with now and since then we were living together, on our own. That night we went to her friends house and slept over. From there we ended up staying with her father for idk how many years 2? 3?. After that we moved into our first apartment, the one I am still in right now.


Couples living with one's parents never seems to work out well, in my opinion. I remember when my brother and his wife moved in with her parents I knew it was just a matter of time, less than six months later they split.



KredPandak said:


> Part of me wants to move out and find something else but part of me just wants to stay here because it's been my home for so long. I'm comfortably uncomfortable staying here. Just a bunch of mixed feelings about this place so I'm not sure where I'll be going from here.


Don't make a decision about moving right now, give it a few months then if you still want to, go ahead. Making too many big changes at once isn't good for you, it increases your chances of having a breakdown. You don't have to rush into anything, get comfortable with where you are at right now, you can always move!


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> I guarantee you her husband was pushing her to kick you guys out, or at least the girlfriend, or pony up a lot more money. He was giving her the 'I'm not paying for your ****ty kid and his sl*t girlfriend to live here. Either you figure out a way to make them pay more or I'm doing it myself.'


It is possible. What bothered me the most about the situation was that my Ex at the time was having trouble finding a job(no GED/diploma and she was young) so she would help around the house as much as she could. On top of that I was giving almost all of my weekly check to my mother for cost of living. In hindsight maybe she just wanted to help me learn what it would have been like if we had our own place. I can't really say for certain but I know she's always tried to do her best when I was younger.



Lilac23 said:


> Was your mom ever abused by a guy she dated? Was she depressed a lot when you were growing up?


Honestly, I can't remember. I've always had trouble remembering things, big and small, that have happened in my life. I'm not sure why but I have some memories that are so vivid it's like it is happening right now. Then there are others that I question if how I think it happened were the real events because it is so hazy.

Come to think of it I'm pretty sure my older sister's father may have abused her. It is something that I would have to ask her directly when I talk to her but I *think* he may have pushed her down the stairs once. I don't know if that's true or not so don't put too much into it. What I do know is that once my own father threw a brick into my grandparents window and my grandfather made him leave. Why? I don't know, but aside from that I don't really know much else about mine or my older sisters father.

Also for a little more context I am 5 years away from both of my sisters. 34 - 29 - 24 years old.



Lilac23 said:


> Don't make a decision about moving right now, give it a few months then if you still want to, go ahead. Making too many big changes at once isn't good for you, it increases your chances of having a breakdown. You don't have to rush into anything, get comfortable with where you are at right now, you can always move!


Yeah, that is a smart plan. I'm not going to jump into anything just yet until I can find some stability with where I am at right now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Memory lapses often are indicative of abuse; kids 'hide' those parts of their lives that are traumatic.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

We don't remember what we don't want to. If we can't forget it, then by schit we will re-write what happened.

The fact your mom wouldn't sign for your XW to take GED classes is very telling. Finding a decent job without a 

HS diploma was pretty hard when I was a late teen..... FF 15 years later (mid 00s)... near impossible. 

Your XW had no means to get a job (car) so she did what she could to clean the house.

Why did your mom allow you to move her in and both of you minors?

Why did XW leave her father's place? And why did he allow her to leave only to then.... let both of you

move into his place? If I had a 16 y/o daughter with a 17 y/o boyfriend... ain't no way I'm moving

him in. Young couples.... it is usually helpful to receive insight and advice from their parents.....

you did not speak to your mom for 10 years you said.....

Did her dad offer any help / insight? Where is XWs mother at during the last 12 years?

KP..... what blows my mind is my grandparents and their generation (Great Depression) had it rough... sometimes

lived on relative's land when they got M, which could have been as young as 13-14 y/o.

They made it... as did many others. Today... they wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Death Valley.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

K, it's hard, but just reading your words on how you handled the leaving, says a lot for how you will be going forward.

Be well and prosper my friend.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Last night I met with my mother. It was akward at first for both of us but it was good that we could talk. We ended up talking for 5 hours and I stayed over for supper. We talked about everything, literally everything, the abuse, abortions and everything that is currently happening. She told me basically what everyone else here has been saying. I need to take care of me now. When I told her about what my Ex had said to me recently and how she was acting she said that it sounds like she is confused and needs help too, but that I can't help her if she doesn't want it. I know this but I still care so deeply for her. 

I ended up asking my mother if she was abused in previous relationships and I was right, my older sisters father did in fact throw her down a flight a stairs, while she was pregnant, and nearly killed her. She told me that after that experience she vowed never to be abused again and, "if a man ever lay his hands on me I would set him on fire in his sleep and live with the consequences." It sounds a little extreme but I understand what she meant. 

She did tell me more about my own father as well. Apparently he was/is an alcoholic and while with her would always be chasing after other women and sleeping around. She explained that when I was a child he was in and out of prison multiple times and she made the decision not to bring me because, "a child's mind isn't equipped to deal with those adult situations." If she had to make the choice again she would do it all the same. I'm not upset with her or anything and I'm glad that I'm actually able to talk to her again. 

When I told her about the abortions I was certain she was going to flip out on me but she didn't. I told her how everything happened and how I was abusive at the time and everything. She just looked at me and said, "listen, you did what you thought was right at the time. You can't beat yourself up over it or change it." My issue is that I wish we didn't have the abortions, if I could go back I would have manned up and had my children. It would have been hard but I do have regrets and I'm not sure if I will ever be able to look back and think of it the way I should.

I also told her about the therapy that I'm going to this Saturday. She thinks it's a really good idea because a lot of crazy runs in my family. Everything from Bi-Polar to depression. I let her know that I will keep her updated as to how it went and I'm hoping for the best really. 

I still don't know where I am going from here or what I am doing with my life but I'm on the right track. It's hard fighting this depression just to get out of bed to write this. I've spent the past 13 hours in bed after I left my mothers house and I'm just now getting up to start my day. I just keep trying to tell myself, "it's going to get better."


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you have medical insurance... talk to a professional.

If you don't... go to local health dep't and let them help you. You can see a professional and pay

on a sliding scale.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> If you have medical insurance... talk to a professional.
> 
> If you don't... go to local health dep't and let them help you. You can see a professional and pay
> 
> on a sliding scale.


Would you care to elaborate a little further as to what you mean by professional? I mean I'm already going to get some anger management and I plan on telling this therapist everything I possibly can. What else can I do to help myself?


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> Would you care to elaborate a little further as to what you mean by professional? I mean I'm already going to get some anger management and I plan on telling this therapist everything I possibly can. What else can I do to help myself?


Is the anger management in a group setting? If so, you will definitely learn coping skills but there probably won't be a lot of one on one time with the therapist. You need one on one time! Look for someone with a 'clinical counseling' degree. There are usually community action organizations that offer counseling for a cheaper fee.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kred, the most important thing to do in depression is to get outside, fresh air, and to exercise. I don't know where you live, but find a way to get some movement. Walks, bike rides, boat rides, whatever - just move!


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Lilac23 said:


> Is the anger management in a group setting? If so, you will definitely learn coping skills but there probably won't be a lot of one on one time with the therapist. You need one on one time! Look for someone with a 'clinical counseling' degree. There are usually community action organizations that offer counseling for a cheaper fee.


It is a one on one Therapy session. My meeting with her is in 5 hours and she specializes in, Anger Management, Anxiety, Coping Skills, Depression, Relationship Issues, and some others that aren't really applicable to me. I found her out and thought it would be much simpler to have one therapist for all of my issues but that is something I will have to discuss with her. 

Right now I'll be going through my company insurance and paying a co-pay but I'm not sure how many visits my insurance will cover before I have to pay for the whole visit myself. That is something I will have to talk to HR about on Monday.



turnera said:


> Kred, the most important thing to do in depression is to get outside, fresh air, and to exercise. I don't know where you live, but find a way to get some movement. Walks, bike rides, boat rides, whatever - just move!


I actually live in a good area for these things. I'm not too far from the beach, but it is winter, and there are many bike and walk trails around here. I also have a subscription to a gym that I plan on going after work every night to really tire myself out before I sleep. I'm hoping if I'm really exhausted I'll be more prone to sleep through the morning without waking up unexpectedly.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

intheory said:


> Kred,
> 
> Isn't it correct that you didn't spring into action and start paying this super-focused attention to your SO, _until_ she was with another man? That's the impression I got.
> 
> ...


I did pay *some* attention to her but it wasn't nearly enough. You are right I only realized how much of an issue it was when it was already too late.

I have been eating better for the past few days (2) I have even started to gain some of my weight back. (I was down to 127 from being 145, now I am at 130.)

Right now I am on the way to my mothers house. She offered to join me on my way to the therapist and even said she would wait for me in the waiting room. First I'm going to her house early for breakfast and then to my meeting. I will update this post later tonight when I have time to share.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

I met with my therapist. I was nervous but she is really nice, I like her. Honestly I thought it was going to be difficult for me to talk to basically a complete stranger about things but she let me explain everything that is happening at my own pace. I tried to cover everything as best as I could while allowing her to ask some questions and give appropriate answers. 

I feel really good about this! She mentioned that even though I still seem more concerned about my ex's well being more than my own, it is good that I am taking steps like coming to a therapist. 

My next appointment is Monday and I honestly can't wait, I don't know why but I feel somewhat excited and scared at the same time. Going to try to get some sleep before work. *Feeling Good*:smile2:


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

KP..... My pop had major anger issues when I was growing up. So did I until I started to "figure pop out."

I saw where his outbursts got him..... nowhere or in worse shape than he was before the outburst.

I learned from him... what NOT to do. 

Hopefully the anger management meetings can line you up with an older male who used to have anger issues.

IMHO it is a lot harder to control anger in this day and age. The world wasn't as selfish then.... but maybe

it's just me looking at the world now as an adult and the 70s and 80s as a kid.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I met with my therapist. I was nervous but she is really nice, I like her. Honestly I thought it was going to be difficult for me to talk to basically a complete stranger about things but she let me explain everything that is happening at my own pace. I tried to cover everything as best as I could while allowing her to ask some questions and give appropriate answers.
> 
> I feel really good about this! She mentioned that even though I still seem more concerned about my ex's well being more than my own, it is good that I am taking steps like coming to a therapist.
> 
> My next appointment is Monday and I honestly can't wait, I don't know why but I feel somewhat excited and scared at the same time. Going to try to get some sleep before work. *Feeling Good*:smile2:


It's hard to be honest and unload on a complete stranger, a good therapist will help you work up to this and not expect everything to come out all at once. It may be harder for you to work with a woman instead of a man though. In my experience, some men with anger issues don't really respect a female practitioner's experiences, sometimes simply because of different gender roles and societal expectations of males vs. females. I am glad it went well for you!


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> I did pay *some* attention to her but it wasn't nearly enough. You are right I only realized how much of an issue it was when it was already too late.
> 
> I have been eating better for the past few days (2) I have even started to gain some of my weight back. (I was down to 127 from being 145, now I am at 130.)
> 
> Right now I am on the way to my mothers house. She offered to join me on my way to the therapist and even said she would wait for me in the waiting room. First I'm going to her house early for breakfast and then to my meeting. I will update this post later tonight when I have time to share.


Have you been feeling nauseous and not eating? Soup and crackers are always good to eat when feeling that way! They are easy on your stomach and filling.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

@Chuck71 I know it may sound like taking a giant step backwards but I don't *feel* angry. How I feel about it all is that I don't have a problem with anger management because even at work or in public I'm always calm. My problem, or at least how I see it, is lack of control when I do get angry. Anger is natural but the reactions I have when pushed to that point are not. It takes a lot to really make me mad to the point where I am about to, for lack of a better saying, "lose my sh*t" 
@Lilac23 Honestly I think I feel more comfortable with a female therapist because I've never really had a male figure in my life growing up. I always had my mother, never knew my father, and was raised with no brothers 2 sisters and eventually my mother married someone that added 4 more sisters. By the time she married the man she is with now I was already 16 so as you can imagine at that age I didn't really care to have a father figure.

Thanks for the concern about my eating habits. I am eating 3(almost 4) meals a day, to me that's normal as I have always burned calories fast and ate many smaller meals during the day. During the time where I wasn't eating it wasn't that I felt sick or anything but I always felt like I had ate about an hour ago. It wasn't that I was full or hungry but just that feeling like you ate recently so it's not on your mind. When I did get hungry though it felt like I was starving, and I was, then I ate a little and felt almost disgusted by the food on my plate. I'm much better now as I'm back to an almost normal eating routine.(for me at least)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would urge you to find a situation in which you can GET a male father figure or mentor. Ask your therapist about it Monday. I think you need to see a good man in action.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

KP ....... there are times when we have, what we think are, control over our anger. But there are certain 

people who just know exactly what buttons to push. Sometimes it is a boss at work.... but mainly, it's

the people you hold closest to your heart. Doesn't make sense does it? My thoughts exactly....

My mother is ill and has regressed mentally but by crap she knows what buttons to push with me.

I set my boundaries, enforce them. I do not interact with her as much but... when we do, it's not a 

pi$$ing contest. The nominal factor in your life is YOU. If any one seems to be encroaching on you boundaries,

re-affirm them, and for your benefit.... keep them to a distance. For YOUR sanity.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> @Chuck71 I know it may sound like taking a giant step backwards but I don't *feel* angry. How I feel about it all is that I don't have a problem with anger management because even at work or in public I'm always calm. My problem, or at least how I see it, is lack of control when I do get angry. Anger is natural but the reactions I have when pushed to that point are not. It takes a lot to really make me mad to the point where I am about to, for lack of a better saying, "lose my sh*t"
> 
> @Lilac23 Honestly I think I feel more comfortable with a female therapist because I've never really had a male figure in my life growing up. I always had my mother, never knew my father, and was raised with no brothers 2 sisters and eventually my mother married someone that added 4 more sisters. By the time she married the man she is with now I was already 16 so as you can imagine at that age I didn't really care to have a father figure.
> 
> Thanks for the concern about my eating habits. I am eating 3(almost 4) meals a day, to me that's normal as I have always burned calories fast and ate many smaller meals during the day. During the time where I wasn't eating it wasn't that I felt sick or anything but I always felt like I had ate about an hour ago. It wasn't that I was full or hungry but just that feeling like you ate recently so it's not on your mind. When I did get hungry though it felt like I was starving, and I was, then I ate a little and felt almost disgusted by the food on my plate. I'm much better now as I'm back to an almost normal eating routine.(for me at least)


Do you have many male friends? Maybe as a sideline to your individual therapy, you should join a group anger management class. They usually only meet once a week for a few hours. That way you could meet some other guys who could help you and are going through the same things you are.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I highly admire you for addressing your issues. You were roughed up on the boards at first....

but you hung in there. I am not going to pass judgment for someone's past.... when I can see them

trying to better themselves. There's a time and place for that down the road.... but to reach that, one

has to "get to there" first.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

turnera said:


> I would urge you to find a situation in which you can GET a male father figure or mentor. Ask your therapist about it Monday. I think you need to see a good man in action.


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sparrow555 said:


> :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


You think he doesn't need a male mentor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

My initial meeting with my therapist was more about me opening up and telling her basically current events. Yesterday when I went to see her she actually got to go over all of the things that she wanted to ask first such as, my family history, friends, and other relationships I have. We didn't have time for much else(I wish the sessions were 2 hours rather than 1.) but I will see her again next monday. In the meantime she asked me what I will be doing to help heal. I told her that I have been reading a lot and have a few books that I hope to finish.(Ones that pertain to my self improvement)



Lilac23 said:


> Do you have many male friends? Maybe as a sideline to your individual therapy, you should join a group anger management class. They usually only meet once a week for a few hours. That way you could meet some other guys who could help you and are going through the same things you are.


I don't have a large group of friends in general but of the male friends I have there is one that I have told literally everything too. He's been really supportive in my quest to get help and I'm really glad that his opinion of me hasn't changed. It was really hard telling someone face to face, especially such a close friend, that I was abusing my partner. 



Chuck71 said:


> I highly admire you for addressing your issues. You were roughed up on the boards at first....
> 
> but you hung in there. I am not going to pass judgment for someone's past.... when I can see them
> 
> ...


I said it before.. I knew I was going to get some, not so nice, things said to me by sharing the truth of what happened.

My feelings on it? I agree with what those people said. I already thought that way about myself and everything they said was exactly how I judged myself every day. I've never been proud of what I did and that's why it's a little easier for me to get the help I need right now. I know the difference between right and wrong and I was so, so wrong.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

KredPandak said:


> My initial meeting with my therapist was more about me opening up and telling her basically current events. Yesterday when I went to see her she actually got to go over all of the things that she wanted to ask first such as, my family history, friends, and other relationships I have. We didn't have time for much else(I wish the sessions were 2 hours rather than 1.) but I will see her again next monday. In the meantime she asked me what I will be doing to help heal. I told her that I have been reading a lot and have a few books that I hope to finish.(Ones that pertain to my self improvement)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awareness is the first step, desire to change is the next! It's hard to delve into all the behaviors and figure out why you act the way you do, then notice when you are falling into those behaviors again and correcting them. Can you think of anything traumatic that happened to you in your past or childhood?


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

Lilac23 said:


> Awareness is the first step, desire to change is the next! It's hard to delve into all the behaviors and figure out why you act the way you do, then notice when you are falling into those behaviors again and correcting them. Can you think of anything traumatic that happened to you in your past or childhood?


When I was younger I was bullied a lot. When it started I never really stood up for myself. I just kind of let it happen you know? I remember one day specifically that changed how I reacted to those situations. 

My mother had a close friend at the time and she had a son that I was friends with. While over his house, playing outside, we were both confronted by a bully. Just one kid picking on us both and making fun of us. He was a few years older than us so we didn't do anything. When we went inside the house I told his mother why we came back in and the first thing she said was, "There's two of you and one of him. You should have kicked his ass." The thought of standing up for myself never crossed my mind until that day. After that point no matter how big the person was that picked on me I always ended up fighting. 

Even when my mother and I moved out here so she could be with her current husband I was still fighting. I didn't know many people here and they didn't know me but the first fight I got into was over something so stupid. 

Basically class started and you got to put your bags in the room then go to lunch, after lunch you would attend the class. So everyone was lined up in the doorway and one person intentionally was blocking me so I couldn't get in to put my bag down. 

I closed my arms in tight and just shoved by him like I was holding a football trying to get to the endzone. When I got passed him he shoved me from behind and I fell face first into the floor. 

I was furious, I threw my bag to the ground and spread my arms apart away from my sides and said, "What? Do you really want to fight with me?" That was my invitation for him to have the first hit. (I never really lost fights so I was confident to let him have it.) He took the same stance with open arms and said, "Alright, lets go!" 

While his arms were still apart I gave him a right hook as hard as I could. He ended up dropping to the floor and he picked up his glasses. He stood back up put the glasses on and I hooked him again. This happened three times before the teacher showed up. 

I know I've always had a temper and been prone to fighting and to be honest, I enjoy it. I don't think of it as traumatic being bullied because I found a way to cope but maybe my view on that has to change. It affected my life in a profound way and I never really thought about it like this until just now. 

I'm going to write some of this down to bring it up with my therapist when I see her again.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The only way you were able to get respect in school was through violence.

Though violence was your de facto emotion from the bullying.

I was in junior high / middle school.... -for the young'uns on TAM- in the mid 80s and teachers viewed 

bullying as a "rite of passage".

And we wonder why people pick up guns today to solve problems....


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sounds to me like you use/used conflicts as a way or vehicle to vent. You said you enjoy fighting. That's a pretty good sign it's giving you that release.

So in your example - a more normal but still aggressive response would have been to stop after the first punch. Then follow up with words if needed to seal the deal - like "you want some more?" Or "are you done yet?" Or "had enough tough guy?". Still very aggressive but I'd bet dollars to donuts that would have solved the bullying.

But it didn't solve your internal frustrations. That took two more punches.

Glad it is starting to glimmer a bit for you - maybe you can see your aggressiveness. Maybe that's a more productive term than "your abuse". I think you will more easily see where you act aggressively. So write it down and then you and your IC can interpret what is abuse and what is defense and what is offense, etc.

Verbal too... Mannerisms...

Aggressiveness is good IMO and needed often. But people weaker than us can see things which we see as merely "strong" as "threatening". So you shouldn't interpret right now, just think and cite and document.


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## KredPandak (Dec 5, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sounds to me like you use/used conflicts as a way or vehicle to vent. You said you enjoy fighting. That's a pretty good sign it's giving you that release.
> 
> Glad it is starting to glimmer a bit for you - maybe you can see your aggressiveness. Maybe that's a more productive term than "your abuse". I think you will more easily see where you act aggressively. So write it down and then you and your IC can interpret what is abuse and what is defense and what is offense, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I'm really glad that I stuck around here because I'm finding more and more that even though I have my issues, there are people willing to help me find and fix those issues.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

K, we grew up going from migrant camp to another.

Starting at a new school, I always had bullies.
One thing I learned early was, hit first, hit hard, then pick up and equalizer.

I live this way today.

I had a stent put in my heart 2 fridays ago, and have to have one more, but I still believe what I learned.

NO !!! It's not right, but you are young enough to restart your whole life, and I BELIEVE you will do it.

Good luck young man, and God Bless you.


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