# Well, sex outside of marriage, but I have questions...



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I guess either side can answer here but I am curious...... I am sort of mentally exploring past/current sexual partners and trying to figure myself out. For one, I would almost say I have "performance anxiety" with new partners, but I have also realized that is not the case with all. Seems if I value them more, the anxiety goes up. As well, I have also realized that with some women, I "think" I desire them, but it is only once things start happening and clothes start coming off that I get physically turned off. To be blunt, I lose physical attraction based on immediate experiences. I have come to realize that most guys will "stab anything that walks" but honestly, half the time I have this "I have gone too far to turn back now" mentality. I am just not sure how normal this is.... I have had women look totally stunned when I decline sex. I could probably detail some of the physical issues but I am sure the women here would not appreciate it. The unfortunate part is there is no way to know until you are in the sack with them! 

But on a second question or thought, I seem to really enjoy oral and a few other things, but have never been sure just how you approach discussing this stuff? I know everyone says "you should talk about it".....DUH..... But how? Because it can come off sounding like "I want you to do this", so I end up just seeing how voluntary a woman is in what she does. I mean I have had some that will suck hard enough to leave me purple, and others you can just tell they are not into it. But I read about women that want guys to "take control".... I don't really want to overstep either and make someone uncomfortable. 

I think what REALLY bugs me is though I seriously despise my first ex, she knew exactly how to get me going and there was never one time I ever had performance issues with her. If anything, I was working to hold it as long as I could, which I got pretty good at. I think it was more than just enjoying the sex, there was this tingle that I got, that I have never had with another soul, even my 2nd ex. It really seems like that woman took a very large piece of me. It really annoys the **** out of me!


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Instead of blaming others for who you are. You would do well to appreciate that you are the way you are, because you can't help but be who you are.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I feel your pain. I am still with the same person after 35 years. Sex is consistent but I would not call it good. 15 years ago it was out of control wild monkey sex and then everything just went to hell. The last 12 years leaves a ton of stuff to be unpacked and honestly I don't think it would solve anything to do it other than create animosity one way or the other. Wish I could be a bit more positive but I think some of us just get broken and are not strong enough to heal ourselves for all kinds of different reasons.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If you think those women look okay enough to have sex with when clothed, but then they aren't attractive enough when their clothes come off, and it's happened more than one odd time-- I think you have one very long sexless life ahead of you. I don't know how old you are, but every single day you are getting older and every single day the age of women you will have sexual access to increases and eventually, yes, eventually, there will be no one who meets your physical standards willing to take their clothes off with you. 

I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet based just on personality alone, given what I've read from you on this forum. I'm surprised quality women aren't getting an inkling of your attitude and running for the hills.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

This sounds like the All About YOU show. About how you want women to blow you and blah blah blah.

What do YOU bring to the table in return? Being honest, it sounds like not much from what I've read.


----------



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Livvie said:


> If you think those women look okay enough to have sex with when clothed, but then they aren't attractive enough when their clothes come off, and it's happened more than one odd time-- I think you have one very long sexless life ahead of you. I don't know how old you are, but every single day you are getting older and every single day the age of women you will have sexual access to increases and eventually, yes, eventually, there will be no one who meets your physical standards willing to take their clothes off with you.
> 
> I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet based just on personality alone, given what I've read from you on this forum. I'm surprised quality women aren't getting an inkling of your attitude and running for the hills.


I think I have mentioned my ultimate reality, and just trying to prepare for it. If they fit my standards, they are married, bet on it. I don't mess with married women. This is why I have talked to women that I am not quite into. Very 'good' women, but I just don't get very aroused. I am concerned that if I start playing with even a small dose of the blue pill, I might become dependent on it and I am way too young for that BS. I don't like pills....

And....women don't run from me because I don't project this attitude in person! I have been told many times I am too nice. However, I am not a doormat, I am confident and assertive. I would say I am somewhat passive anymore. I don't 'chase' women, I don't approach them, I don't even act all that interested. I mean, I might if I saw what I was looking for but.....lol......we are talking about YEARS since I have seen one of those.


----------



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This sounds like the All About YOU show. About how you want women to blow you and blah blah blah.
> 
> What do YOU bring to the table in return? Being honest, it sounds like not much from what I've read.


Yet you felt compelled to reply, just to add some salt..... Yes, I AM asking about me here. I didn't know I needed to include others. I am not married or even attached. As far as 'what I bring to the table', I have no idea what that means. It does in fact sound like I have pissed off some women for being honest. I am NOT trying to blame women for my problem, I am trying to determine WHAT my problem is and if it is common with anyone else. For all I know, I am a low T party goer and will need a pile of pills soon enough.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Clothes can hide a myriad of faults, so there can be unpleasant surprises when they come off, ranging from flaws to hygiene. True for both men and women, no doubt. I've only had a very small percentage of partners who really turned me off, but got through those encounters - once.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

As long as a clean naked woman is underneath the clothes, by the time we get to that point, she is getting seeing to.
Long term partners will get oral attention and I expect to be seen to as well.

First time experience and I don't care because we just starting.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

When I read posts like this, the message I get is that many middle-aged people are hanging on to expectations from their youth. But, unfortunately, what was reasonable in your 20s is no longer realistic in your 40s and 50s and 60s.

So, to me, it's gonna be about choices and priorities. Older people are gonna have emotional and physical scars.

I don't know how old you are - maybe you're still in your 20s or 30s, but what I think @She'sStillGotIt was getting at (what you bring to the table) is that you'd better be an all around, pretty spectacular specimen, if you hope to plow through a neverending supply of flawless women.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think you could benefit from individual counseling. It should help you to figure out what’s going on. Maybe you are trying to hard that dating game, and date women you are not attracted to? Maybe it would be good for you to put dating on hold, and focus on yourself, try to figure out what is it that you really want?


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This sounds like the All About YOU show. About how you want women to blow you and blah blah blah.
> 
> What do YOU bring to the table in return? Being honest, it sounds like not much from what I've read.


"I bet you say that to all the boys"


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Frankly, ypu could be missing on a very hot sex...


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

bobsmith said:


> ..... I am sort of mentally exploring past/current sexual partners and trying to figure myself out. For one, I would almost say I have *"performance anxiety" with new partners*, but I have also realized that is not the case with all. Seems if I value them more, the anxiety goes up.
> 
> ........But on a second question or thought, I seem to really enjoy oral and a few other things, but have never been sure just how you approach discussing this stuff? I know everyone says "you should talk about it".....DUH..... But how?
> 
> ...


A few thoughts. When in sex therapy sessions with my wife, the ST told us that the best sex was playful and exploratory sex. That would be sex that did not contain any performance anxiety. The ST referred to it as a for of adult school recess with your best friend. Let your new girlfriend know that you want to be in a loving and sexual relationship and that you want to gradually increase the level of intimacy with them that is pleasant for both of you.

As to how to talk about oral and other things. I would suggest setting the stage by saying you want sex to be exploratory and playful and yet you don't want to do something that grosses them out. Suggest a "Yes, No, Maybe list." There are lots of them on the internet that range from tame and for high school lovers to hard core FetLife members as to variations. Find two; a mild one and a more adventurous one, and both work at filling them out then talking about your answers. I would further set the stage by saying that anything she say she wants or might be interested in will not change your opinion of her and that you are a fairly open minded guy, but you also have your limits/boundaries as to what you are willing to try. Tell her that just because you or she is willing to try something doesn't mean you will end up doing it ever week.

My wife has very limited sexual things she is willing to do, but she does like me taking charge within her sexual boundaries. Actually, in my view it is less about taking charge as in becoming aroused by her body and soul to the point that I loose control and freely show my desire for her. She likes feeling so desired that I loose control and ravish her body. She seems to really feed off that energy in ways that I also enjoy.

Your introspection is a good thing. I also think that based on what you said you should also do some introspection on why you have not been able to let go of your feelings regarding your first ex. I believe that if you are still hung up on a past love, it will contaminate any current and future relationships.

Good Luck


----------



## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> * Seems if I value them more, the anxiety goes up. As well, I have also realized that with some women, I "think" I desire them, but it is only once things start happening and clothes start coming off that I get physically turned off. To be blunt, I lose physical attraction based on immediate experiences.*
> 
> You have some sort of expectations built into sex. making comparisons to an ideal, model of what your partner/experience should be. you are dragging around preconceived notions. Free up the mind buddy. Psychological issues probably from your early years are haunting you. learn to let go of the BS. Agree with wanda about missing out on some hot sex. You have head issues.
> 
> ...






[/QUOTE]


----------



## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. When in sex therapy sessions with my wife, the ST told us that the best sex was playful and exploratory sex. That would be sex that did not contain any performance anxiety. The ST referred to it as a for of adult school recess with your best friend. Let your new girlfriend know that you want to be in a loving and sexual relationship and that you want to gradually increase the level of intimacy with them that is pleasant for both of you.
> 
> As to how to talk about oral and other things. I would suggest setting the stage by saying you want sex to be exploratory and playful and yet you don't want to do something that grosses them out. Suggest a "Yes, No, Maybe list." There are lots of them on the internet that range from tame and for high school lovers to hard core FetLife members as to variations. Find two; a mild one and a more adventurous one, and both work at filling them out then talking about your answers. I would further set the stage by saying that anything she say she wants or might be interested in will not change your opinion of her and that you are a fairly open minded guy, but you also have your limits/boundaries as to what you are willing to try. Tell her that just because you or she is willing to try something doesn't mean you will end up doing it ever week.
> Good Luck


All that talking is not the way to go. women wont tell you what they *really* want. trust me on that one. Don't do this.


----------



## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

manowar said:


> All that talking is not the way to go. women wont tell you what they *really* want. trust me on that one. Don't do this.


Different things work for different people but as a woman, i do agree with this. Before I met my husband and was "dating", i definitely did not want to have to be telling guys what I wanted. I would run away fast if anyone put a questionnaire in front of me to fill out. If the guy is confident in himself and you're excited you end up doing things that that you never dreamed you'd be doing. And even if I could be convinced to fill out a series of questions on a form, my answers as a "good girl" sitting there filling out a form are going to be vastly different from my real limits and how a guy might be able to push them. That's MY idea of the exploratory sex that @Young at Heart is talking about.

I do agree with the part about seeing and feeling how much a guy wants you and how that is such a turn on. Like them not being able to control themselves (as @Young at Heart describes).


----------



## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> Different things work for different people but as a woman, i do agree with this. Before I met my husband and was "dating", i definitely did not want to have to be telling guys what I wanted. I would run away fast if anyone put a questionnaire in front of me to fill out. If the guy is confident in himself and you're excited you end up doing things that that you never dreamed you'd be doing. And even if I could be convinced to fill out a series of questions on a form, my answers as a "good girl" sitting there filling out a form are going to be vastly different from my real limits and how a guy might be able to push them. That's MY idea of the exploratory sex that @Young at Heart is talking about.
> 
> I do agree with the part about seeing and feeling how much a guy wants you and how that is such a turn on. Like them not being able to control themselves (as @Young at Heart describes).


Is that because they don’t know what they really want themselves or because they do know, but just won’t say? (Due to some hang up). I always found this aspect very confusing


----------



## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Impulse said:


> Is *that *because they don’t know what they really want themselves or because *they *do know, but just won’t say? (Due to some hang up). I always found this aspect very confusing


The question is not really clear (what is "that" and what is "they") but if you mean why some women (or I) don't want to spell what i want out clearly on a form, then I think it's a combination of both of those things as suggested in my reply. Kind of takes the fun out of it. I'm a nice girl. I don't want naughty things to be my idea! . I can't speak for anyone but myself. Call it a "hang up" or whatever. Just don't hand me a form to fill out so that you can make your plan, procedure, and checklist to do me. Some things men just need to figure out for themselves. I don't think a man should expect a woman to make up a checklist for him. I picture a guy on top of me with a clipboard and a pencil behind his ear. .


----------



## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> The question is not really clear (what is "that" and what is "they") but if you mean why some women (or I) don't want to spell what i want out clearly on a form, then I think it's a combination of both of those things as suggested in my reply. Kind of takes the fun out of it. I'm a nice girl. I don't want naughty things to be my idea! . I can't speak for anyone but myself. Call it a "hang up" or whatever. Just don't hand me a form to fill out so that you can make your plan, procedure, and checklist to do me. Some things men just need to figure out for themselves. I don't think a man should expect a woman to make up a checklist for him. I picture a guy on top of me with a clipboard and a pencil behind his ear. .


I didn’t mean to imply any kind of judgement with the word ‘hangup’- apologies if it came across like that.

You say you don’t want to be the one to tell the guy what to do; I just wanted to know whether in those instances, the woman is more likely to actually be fully aware of what it is that she wants, but she won’t voice it, or whether she isn’t sure herself, but would like to be (pleasantly) surprised.

The problem is, the guy is not always a good mind reader and applying a kind of ‘hit and miss’ strategy here could be fraught with all kinds of risks..

Maybe there is no straightforward answer to this type of question and finding out could be part of the charm...Or so I hope.
Anyway, sorry to interrupt


----------



## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Impulse said:


> I didn’t mean to imply any kind of judgement with the word ‘hangup’- apologies if it came across like that.
> 
> You say you don’t want to be the one to tell the guy what to do; I just wanted to know whether in those instances, the woman is more likely to actually be fully aware of what it is that she wants, but she won’t voice it, or whether she isn’t sure herself, but would like to be (pleasantly) surprised.
> 
> ...


No apologies necessary. I didn't take it in the wrong way. I can only speak for myself. I liked to be taken on a journey. I did not want to know the destination. It was a combination of not knowing what I wanted (exactly) and not wanting to have to specify it like i'm ordering a grocery delivery.

You raise the obvious issue here - "how does a guy know what she wants" and, of course, the impact of getting it wrong can be severe for a guy. It might work for some women to help men solve this dilemma by making lists or telling him exactly what she will and won't do and what she enjoys, etc but it never worked for me. Just never had the desire to write out a list or otherwise tell a guy what I wanted. Nor have guys really asked me (good for me...i don't want to be asked...just do what you want to do....don't ask about it or ask to have a discussion about it first).

You're right that there is not a straightforward way to answer this but part of your problem might be if you think "hit or miss" (just trying this sex act or that sex act to see what she will or will not do) is the only alternative to being explicitly told what to do by your sex partner. A strong man (IMO) is not just aimlessly trying to see what sex acts a woman will or will not do and then that defines his sexuality. Obviously I'm not saying that men shouldn't respect consent and boundaries.

There's another option. Think of it as taking her on a journey. A strong man knows where he wants to go (in everything, not just sex). He's a leader. He knows how to get what he wants. He can take you on a journey to places you never knew you wanted to go to. Or that you didn't even know existed. And there's a destination to it all - not just an aimless collection of acts. Once you're on board with the journey, you'll do what's needed. That journey can be all in a single night or across weeks or months.


----------



## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> No apologies necessary. I didn't take it in the wrong way. I can only speak for myself. I liked to be taken on a journey. I did not want to know the destination. It was a combination of not knowing what I wanted (exactly) and not wanting to have to specify it like i'm ordering a grocery delivery.
> 
> You raise the obvious issue here - "how does a guy know what she wants" and, of course, the impact of getting it wrong can be severe for a guy. It might work for some women to help men solve this dilemma by making lists or telling him exactly what she will and won't do and what she enjoys, etc but it never worked for me. Just never had the desire to write out a list or otherwise tell a guy what I wanted. Nor have guys really asked me (good for me...i don't want to be asked...just do what you want to do....don't ask about it or ask to have a discussion about it first).
> 
> ...


Re last paragraph..I have expressed it this way myself, almost to the word.

But...one thought that springs to mind is making sure one is going on journeys one actually wants to go on (or doesn’t mind being taken on). And if you are not in control, you may not know whether you want to be part of it or not, until it’s May be too late.
If, for whatever reason, one is unable to state what one wants, sexually, I hope it doesn’t mean that by the same token, one is also unable to express and state explicitly what one doesn’t want.

I don’t know. I worry because I think wilfulness and focus on dominance is something that is more suitable for LTRs, and it could be very risky for new relationships or new encounters...

I also can’t help but wonder how much will the fantasy match reality? Has anyone had the ‘perfect journey’, living up to everything they expected it to be, outside of an LTR?

In an LTR, it is not easy to keep coming up with new ‘adventures’ and journeys to surprise your partner. I have to sometimes put a lot of thought and energy designing something new and innovative, only then to be hit with something unexpected myself (screaming child or resistance from partner. Not the good kind.)
Relationships are hard.


----------



## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Impulse said:


> Re last paragraph..I have expressed it this way myself, almost to the word.
> 
> But...one thought that springs to mind is making sure one is going on journeys one actually wants to go on (or doesn’t mind being taken on). And if you are not in control, you may not know whether you want to be part of it or not, until it’s May be too late.
> If, for whatever reason, one is unable to state what one wants, sexually, I hope it doesn’t mean that by the same token, one is also unable to express and state explicitly what one doesn’t want.
> ...


Good point. In some cases I went along on the journey naive and nervous. As far as knowing if you want to go on it or not, I had a lot of mixed feelings. Many of these journeys took me far out of my comfort zone. Yes, very risky and dangerous outside of trusting LTRs. Perhaps the feeling of danger was part of the reason why I was attracted to it.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Am I correct in my interpretation, bob, that you want to know if others experience this and you want to know why you are? 


that when some women are naked with you, there’s physical aspects that turn you off?
that you’re unsure how to approach whether oral is agreeable?
that your first wife was your ultimate sexual match so far, which maybe hinders your experience with others in comparison?

I think IC may benefit you.


----------

