# Inexcusable



## Peccavi (Feb 19, 2013)

I believe myself to be a rational person. So why did I do such a terrible, irrational act? I can't answer that myself. I have a few explanations (not excuses, since my actions are inexcusable).

My wife and I have known each other for more than 10 years. We met in college, fell in love, and got married 6 years ago. We have had our share of marital problems. me, with my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (especially related to hygiene issues), and she suffers from a condition known as Vaginismuss (it's painful for her to have sex). But she's been making a herculean effort to make herself get better, and she is. We've never really had sex. Penetration was achieved only once in our marriage.

As I write this, I think some may take this to believe that I am rationalizing my actions. I am not. I love my wife. I find her to be the most beautiful, kindest, most supportive human being I know.

Cheating is cheating. And that's that.

I think it started a few years ago. My wife and I went on a vacation to Thailand. We spent several days at a resort. And we got massages (together). 

That's when I got into the whole massage scene. During that trip, I went to a seedy joint to get a massage (having heard of "happy endings" etc). I've been fascinated by seedy joints where the flesh trade happens. It started off as an academic interest, but now i have a problem.

I went to two and got massages from both. No happy ending though. They offered. i refused. I couldn't let another woman ejaculate me, since I thought it unfair to my wife (see the irony: i could let another woman touch me, brush against my privates even - but i drew the line at getting a HJ/BJ etc without my wife knowing it. which means i secretly wanted to do it)

Anyways, I told my wife about this when I came back to the hotel, and suggested that she accompany me to the same place, and see how a massage was given, along with a HJ, and maybe we could replicate the same at home - sort of enhancing our sex life. 

She was not happy. She was hurt that I would let another woman give me a HJ. I was upset at having made her cry. And so that plan got shelved. 

When we got back home to our city, things went back to normal. We both forgot about it. I did get a few massages, but they were with my wife's consent. She didn't like another woman touching me, but she knew they relaxed me, so she seemed ok. They all happened at upscale spas, so there was no issue really.

But my fascination with the seedier side of this continued to haunt me. I started looking for seedy joints. I found some on the internet, and paid them a visit. Just massages. Nothing else. Was offered a HJ once, and I declined. Told my wife about it, and she scolded me. She said if I wanted a massage, then I should just go to the regular spa (which was kosher).

But again, I didn't listen. This past weekend, we had a fight. I was angry with her. I was also trying to quit smoking, so the withdrawal made it even worse. She apologized to me, said she'd make things better. I listened, then stormed out.

And I went to a seedy joint again. Got a massage. Then I recalled hearing about massage parlor nearby, which was quite famous online for the extras they offered. I decided to give it a try. Being in seedy places excited me, I guess. Being somewhere I wasn't supposed to be brought out the horny 16 year old in me (I'm 31 now). 

So I got there. This place masquerading as a hair dressing salon. And I was let in. The receptionist let me chose a girl and sent me into a massage room. I asked the girl for the "extras" available. She gave a list: intercourse, HJ, BJ etc etc. I chose a topless, body to body massage. And changed into my boxers.

She started to massage me, rubbing herself on my body. She bloody well asked if I was married, and I said no, I wasn't. I said no! She was topless, and wearing tights. She got on top of me and started grinding. Please excuse the explicitness of this post, but I have to give details so that people can offer some specific advice. I touched her breasts, and her bum. She bit my nipple and ear. She kept prodding me on to take the "intercourse" option. I declined again and again. I couldn't bring myself to do it. She grabbed my penis, and tried to sell a HJ or BJ. I did not accept.

The session ended. I paid. I left.

I came home, showered. I told my about getting a massage, but nothing else. She was sad even to hear this. We spent a good evening together. She was totally oblivious to what happened.

But it kept weighing on me. This was a new low. I went to a prostitute, for goodness' sake! I prayed, asked for strength to tell her.

Yesterday I told her. About 30 hours after the deed, I told her what I did.

And needless to say, my world fell apart.

I genuinely believe I am not a bad person. But I did a terrible thing. I hurt the person whom I love unconditionally with all of my being; for whom i'd be willing to die without the slightest hesitation. She is my soul mate. But I spat on all that. 

She's hurt. She said that I was too busy with work for the past few months, and couldn't make time for her. When she wanted to practice her exercises with me for her condition (which will lead to her being able to have pain-free sex), I always made excuses. I was busy. Or my compulsions regarding hygiene wouldn't let me, that it would be stressful for me. So what the f*** happened? How did I find time to go to a prostitute? How did my hygiene compulsions let me go to a brothel? 

She's feeling inadequate now. She feels like she drove me there. Can you believe it? She's feeling guilty. And she ca't trust me anymore.

But she's not to blame. The mistake was mine. I could not expect more from any person than what she has done for me. If I were to spend my entire life as her slave, I still cannot repay a fraction of all that she has done for me. 

So why did I do this?

I don't know. I don't understand what I did or how. I'm beginning to see that this was a habit which I didn't notice, and didn't try to (didn't want to) stop.

I've promised myself that I have stopped now. I hope it's not too late. I hope she forgives me, and that I can make amends with her. I slipped - no, I heaved off a cliff with this one.

I used to abuse those who cheated on their spouses. I used to look down on those who went to brothels. Now I am one of them. 

How do I fix this? I know wallowing in self pity is not going to accomplish anything. I need to fix us. 

What do I do?


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## BFGuru (Jan 28, 2013)

As a woman that suffered from extreme vaginismus, I am not sure I can be compassionate to your plight. I was told multiple times by my spouse "any other man would have had an affair on you by now".

Your wife needs medical help. Find out exactly what is causing the pain. Not for you, but for herself. To find joy in sexuality again. Most physiological causes of sexual pain can be treated successfully. It is not a fun process, but I feel bad for your wife. 

You have taken her illness and used it against her and as such, she WILL feel inadequate, and it will eat at her for years to come.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Peccavi said:


> Anyways, I told my wife about this when I came back to the hotel, and suggested that she accompany me to the same place, and see how a massage was given, along with a HJ, and maybe we could replicate the same at home - sort of enhancing our sex life.


Are you serious? A hand is a hand. Are you telling me you can't demonstrate the act of masterbation in front of your wife at home and have her simulate it? Buy a DVD on massage if you want her to learn. There are different ways to approach this, but you chose the one that would most degrade your wife. You need intense counseling.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm not sure what to tell you. After reading this:



> That's when I got into the whole massage scene. During that trip, I went to a seedy joint to get a massage (having heard of "happy endings" etc). I've been fascinated by seedy joints where the flesh trade happens. It started off as an academic interest, but now i have a problem.


Talk about rationalizations. An "academic interest"?? Seriously?? No. You knew what you wanted and what you were getting into from the start. You were horny and curious. Period. You dipped your toe in a little bit more each time until you could feel comfortable with what you were doing so you could keep going even further. At least admit that much.

And I do follow your wife's logic. How are you OCD about hygiene yet you seem to have no problem going to "seedy joints" and letting prostitutes rub all over you and touch your genitals??


I suggest you get counseling (for yourself), your wife needs to see a doctor about this if she hasn't, and you need to stop going to "seedy joints", getting massages, and messing around with prostitutes. 

I can understand frustration with a condition like your wife has but it sounds like she was trying and you were using "OCD" as an excuse to not have to respond to her attempts.

I'm pretty sure deep down you know WHY you did all this, you just don't want to admit it to yourself or your wife for whatever reason.


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## boogaloo2 (Feb 13, 2013)

read some of the responses ive had, and i havent even cheated in 'body'..some ppl here can be real harsh..


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## Peccavi (Feb 19, 2013)

Firstly, many thanks for your responses. I appreciate your help and comments. I know they aren't the most flattering. But this is not the most flattering of times, to say the least. 

I have a problem. My apologies if I wasn't clear in my original post. But I do realize I have a problem. I know it's been festering for years, and it came out two days ago. 

I'm not rationalizing it. I don't want to rationalize it. I know what I did. And I know it was wrong. Poor wording in my post. But that's what it is: poor wording. 

I'm not under any delusion that what i did was excusable in any way. Hence the title of this thread.

I wanted sex. I was frustrated. I know. (Please excuse the rhetoric in my post). And during my last time, the urge to let go and just have sex was overwhelming. But I didn't have sex. (I don't say this for brownie points. I state it as fact). Because I don't want to have sex with anyone other than my wife. This doesn't make what I did any less horrible. I also know that. I know my OCD has become a blanket under which I like to go hide from time to time. But I'm working on it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Let me get this straight...you went to multiple "happy ending" places...and not once got a "happy ending"? Sorry. I don't buy it. And your wife's reaction to what you told her says the same thing: she doesn't believe you either. She WANTS to believe you. But she doesn't. Why? Because people don't go to places like that MULTIPLE times and don't get what they go there for. Once, maybe. But not multiple times over a "few years". 

So, what are you doing to rebuild her trust? Counseling? No more massages, at any location, without her consent/presence?


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

You are rationalizing your behavior, you are minimizing it by saying you didn't let them finish you off (which I find difficult to believe). And you have been cruel to your wife, by rubbing her face in it every time you went for a massage. Then you deliberately chose to go to a prostitute. All the while your wife has been asking you to work with her to improve and practice. Why did you choose to avoid your wife?

I think you are punishing your wife. You deliberately sought out others sexually and then shared this information with her. Did you take pleasure in making her feel "less than a woman"? I would advise you to seek individual counseling, you need to determine why you would choose this path knowing your behavior would crush your wife.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

boogaloo2 said:


> read some of the responses ive had, and i havent even cheated in 'body'..some ppl here can be real harsh..


Some people only want to hear " there is nothing you did was wrong, keep doing what your doing". If that's what you want hear this is the wrong place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boogaloo2 (Feb 13, 2013)

a lot of the 'responsees' need to look at thier own problems before judging others, who are not here to be judged, but for help..And im 'doing nothing',,read and digest!!!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You need to read and learn instead of defending your behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boogaloo2 (Feb 13, 2013)

richie33 said:


> You need to read and learn instead of defending your behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, and that is what im doing..ppl tell me to seek council..thats exactly what i have done..maybe i should leave the councilling soley to her, and not to everyone here who thinks (even with problems of thier own) that they know what i should or shouldnt do


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Let's try not to threadjack.


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## Peccavi (Feb 19, 2013)

To answer some questions:

Umm... about me not being "finished off." Yes, I never was. This is an anonymous forum. I have no interest in lying.

After Thailand I've been to 3 places in the past 3 years. I went to two in Thailand. I understand that going to even ONE was wrong.

But I've come here for help. I don't want anyone to condone what I've done (which some of you obviously think). I want their advice. 

I feel terrible already. Not because of the abuse i'm getting from the forum members, but because I hurt my wife.

I need advice. What do I do now? 

I've already promised my wife and myself that I won't be doing any of this ever again. 

I've shared my user/password for email, facebook, TAM (so she can read these posts), my phone is available to her, etc


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Your poor wife. How degrading for her.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Peccavi said:


> To answer some questions:
> 
> Umm... about me not being "finished off." Yes, I never was. This is an anonymous forum. I have no interest in lying.
> 
> ...


1. Counseling
2. Follow her lead
3. Don't go for ANY massages. None. Zero. Zip. NADA. Without HER giving the ok.
4. Work with her on the exercises...assuming she still WANTS to now.
5. Stay transparent, answer any questions, heavy lifting. You screwed up. You have admitted it. Now, you do what SHE needs, not what YOU want.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

The consensus seems to be that you need to seek professional counseling. Your issues can't be helped by an internet forum.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Peccavi said:


> We've never really had sex. Penetration was achieved only once in our marriage.


Once?

Can't say I blame you for seeking solace elsewhere.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

totamm said:


> Once?
> 
> Can't say I blame you for seeking solace elsewhere.


Are you kidding me?? Did you even READ his initial post? His wife has vaginismus. She has exercises to try to make sex NOT painful for her...and she WANTS to do the exercises. HE gave HER excuses for not doing them/trying. Don't you *DARE* throw this back on his wife! He has even stated HIMSELF that she wants this fixed. UFB... just...wow.....

ETA: He has even stated himself that there is no excuse for what he did. NO excuse for cheating. Period.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I agree with Maria's suggestions except for the consent for massages thing. You need to give those up period and not even talk about going again. Even if she said fine those are just going to be triggers for her. If she's there with you or not.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

So you haven't actually had sex with her... There are many pleasurable ways to be sexual: blowjob, hand-job, cunnilingus for her (does this hurt her?), titty-humping, her massaging you, etc.

Do you guys do any of this? how about 69? This would be exciting to me.

I would suggest never getting any massage from anywhere. Provide whatever monitoring protocol required so that she can verify this.

Offer taking a lie-detector test for the 'no-finishing' aspect. Tell her you are sorry everyday and reassure how sexy she is to you and how much you love her...

hmm what else... When she's ready start exploring the other sexual options with her if you haven't already. If you have exercises to do with her DO THEM. Since you both have issues to work through lead by example and fix yours before you think about her fixing hers. 

Doctors, sex therapist, MC for the stress these issues place on your relationship.. don't stop trying to find answers and KEEP TALKING about how you feel so you don't bottle it up, hide it and go off to do something you'll both regret. 

As your wife, she SHOULD be putting in the effort to engage with you in other sexual ways if intercourse is off the table. No sexual activity = friends.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I agree with every one else.

Definitely no massages, probably ever again, unless it's by a male and your wife is present.

Also you need to have your internet time monitered, because you seek these places out online and read up on them. you need to stop that completely.

There is no reason why you can't have a great sex life with your wife, you have a lot of issues, and they have contributed greatly with this situation.

You won't have a good marriage unless you do what needs to be done and act like an honourable man from this day on, never giving your wife reason to doubt you again.


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## likeaboss (Feb 21, 2013)

Peccavi said:


> During that trip, I went to a seedy joint to get a massage (having heard of "happy endings" etc). I've been fascinated by seedy joints where the flesh trade happens. It started off as an academic interest, but now i have a problem.


This is where you lost me...
IMO that's considered stepping outside your marriage.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Past actions aside you need to understand why you did this and how to prevent it from happening again. 

People are often shocked by their own actions when it comes to sex, that it because you are dealing with something that resides deep in the most ancient and primitive part of the brain - the hypothalamus. This part of the brain deals with basic drives like hunger and sleep and is notoriously hard to control with reason and morality, hence the seemingly irrational sexual behaviour people engage in despite the risks, such as divorce, humiliation and disease.

You felt disgust for what you did and yet you did it anyway. Several times. This means that simply telling yourself that it was bad and you will never do it again probably won't be enough to stop you when you are confronted with temptation. 

You need to make fundamental changes to your sex life and the way that you view sex. It seems to me that you are attracted to dirty massage parlours_ because _they are dirty and seedy, not despite the fact that they are. Maybe this is part of the OCD thing? 

I would suggest that you change the way you view sex with your wife. Don't focus on penetration and try to satisfy your craving for dirty sex with her. She is deeply hurt so it might be tough to get her on board, but you need her to play the role of the 'dirty sex' provider in order to try and control that urge that you have for illicit, seedy sex. 

Often we put our wives on a pedestal and see her as pure and clean, while secretly craving animalistic, kinky or seedy sex. If your marriage is going to be successful you are going to have to try and get as much as you need sexually from your wife, and her from you. 

Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you guys do any other kind of sexual activity together ?


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## Carlchurchill (Jan 23, 2013)

Its all well and good to tell him to put her feelings first and stop being a jerk, but he hasnt had sex for years and it doesnt sound like she is meeting his needs with bj's or hj's or anal or anything...whats a guy to do?

The argument to that is she didnt develop vaginismus sp? over night and you knew what you were getting into from the beginning.

Also, you dont have to tell your wife everything. What she doesnt know cant hurt her! Unfortunately that boat has sailed for you and now you have hectic damage control to do. 
Who knows you may go through life never having sex...wow


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## karmah (Feb 21, 2013)

This boils down to communication, or lack thereof. If you came to your wife and explained these urges perhaps she would be willing to accommodate your massage fetish and even "grind her naked body against you". Since according to you there was no actual penetration at the massage parlors, this would be something she COULD do for you. You could have exchanged massages, made sensual evening of the occurrences where pleasure is experienced by both partners without penetration for the time being. Or was your wife just not seedy enough for your taste? Seek help and man up.


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## BFGuru (Jan 28, 2013)

He may not have known what he was getting into. My husband and I were virgins when we got married. Crazy concept, I know, but we were. I had no idea it would take three days to consummate (and it wasn't for lack of trying) due to the pain. I had no idea intercourse would be that painful. And it didn't stop. For years. And yes we tried other things but it never stopped him from telling me that any other guy would have left me by now.

It's a penis. You will survive without a penis rub. Trust me. And frankly, I find making excuses for your infidelity because of her pain deplorable. It is not her responsibility alone to fix this mess. You want sex with your wife, man up. Make her feel like she matters more than anything to you. And help her get the help she needs FOR HER, NOT YOU. She deserves to enjoy sexuality, and you have just betrayed the most intimate part of her vulnerability.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm sorry...I'm trying to see the issue here.

You never actually let this pro do her thing?

You should probably get re-examined for OCD - cleanliness. There's absolutely ZERO way you have that if you went to one of the most disgusting places known to man.

Where I see the real problem is your wife came to you TO PLAY WITH HER to warm her up and you declined to get a mediocre massage by a pro. So now your wife feels betrayed AND you still didn't get off.

I'm confused.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Carlchurchill said:


> Its all well and good to tell him to put her feelings first and stop being a jerk, but he hasnt had sex for years and *it doesnt sound like she is meeting his needs with bj's or hj's or anal or anything...whats a guy to do?*
> 
> The argument to that is she didnt develop vaginismus sp? over night and you knew what you were getting into from the beginning.
> 
> ...


Dude, did you even READ the initial post?? FFS! She WANTS to have sex with her husband! She WANTS to have a sex life with her husband. She WANTS to work on these things. And what does he do? Read below... he pushed her away, made EXCUSES as to why he didn't want to have sex with her. So, excuse me when I say your post is nonsense. 1. She wants to do her exercises so she can have sex with her husband. 2. He had the audacity to suggest that she watch a prostitute give him a HJ, at the very least... how f*cked up do you have to be to suggest to your wife, who is suffering from a condition that causes pain from penetrative sex, to WATCH a prostitute get you off? 3. What she doesn't know won't hurt her? Are you serious? He is going to wh0rehouses (for lack of a NICE word for it) to get "massages"... and potentially exposing her to diseases. No, there is no penetration between his wife and himself. But you know what? There is still that potential that he could pick something up there, and, IF his wife chooses to continue in the marriage (because at this point, it IS totally up to her if she wants to stay with her cheating husband), then anything he could have gotten from there, he can easily pass on to his wife. 

Sorry, he f*cked up. He knows it. He cheated on his wife, now wants to (hopefully) make it right with her. It's not HER fault that HE made excuses to NOT try to have sex with her. It's not HER fault that HE chose to go to prostitutes rather than try having SOME kind of sex with his WIFE. As I said to one other previous poster: don't you DARE put this on his wife! HE f*cked up here, NOT HER!

And maybe you should go back and re-read the post below, paying close attention to HIS OWN ADMISSIONS!




Peccavi said:


> My wife and I have known each other for more than 10 years. We met in college, fell in love, and got married 6 years ago. We have had our share of marital problems. me, with my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (especially related to hygiene issues), and she suffers from a condition known as Vaginismuss (it's painful for her to have sex). But *she's been making a herculean effort to make herself get better, and she is.* We've never really had sex. Penetration was achieved only once in our marriage.
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I'm sorry...I'm trying to see the issue here.
> 
> You never actually let this pro do her thing?
> 
> ...



Well, you know, he started off with "just" a massage. This last "massage", it appears HE was massaging the WOMAN more than he got... topless, touched her breasts and her ass... by the time it was over, she had grabbed his penis. Ok, so maybe not more of a massage for the woman, but both got "massaged". Honestly? I think it's just a matter of time before he actually got "one of those" massages.... not that I actually believe "nothing happened"... yet.


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