# What sex are you allowed to 'expect' in marriage?



## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I think that marriage includes an expectation of sex. It seems from reading these boards that that is an agreed to statement, assuming no severe physical on other diabilities which would prevent that.

That being said, what type of sex is one allowed to expect in marriage?

For me, I think it's limited to vaginal sex, with all other forms being optional, and up to both partners to agree too. Reading these boards though, I sense that not all agree with that and may feel oral or even anal is expected.

Additionally, if is correct to 'expect' oral, anal, etc. if that was what was offered when dating and prior to being married, but that stopped at some point after marriage (once again, assuming no physical or other disabilities causing this issue). Does one partner have a right to expect the other to maintain what they had done prior to marriage?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I never "expected" anything other than vaginal and me giving my wife oral, as that's what we had prior to being married. I would have enjoyed more, and tried to encourage that, but it was no-go.

With my current GF, we do pretty much everything now. If our relationship continued and got more serious, I would "expect" that to continue, until there was some reason why not. Would I end the relationship because she suddenly stopped allowing anal? No, probably not. But I would expect a candid discussion rather than a decision on her part for it to stop.

C


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'm in the Dan Savage camp, I think oral (both ways) is a basic sexual need.

Anal is a whole 'nother thing and has to be negotiated. Honestly, not all men want it, not all women want it.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I'm in the Dan Savage camp, I think oral (both ways) is a basic sexual need.
> 
> Anal is a whole 'nother thing and has to be negotiated. Honestly, not all men want it, not all women want it.


:iagree:


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

While I have never tried to Lamaga, I don't want it either. If I ever did try it, that might change, and I do have a very mild desire to see what it feel like, but if I never got it in my lietime I don't think I'd even pay it any mind.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I expect what I married.

There are reasons why I married who I did and their sexual repertoire is one of those reasons.

If I was getting it prior to marriage I expect it to continue.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I think that marriage includes an expectation of sex. It seems from reading these boards that that is an agreed to statement, assuming no severe physical on other diabilities which would prevent that.
> 
> That being said, what type of sex is one allowed to expect in marriage?
> 
> ...


I agree with others. What happened prior to the exchange of rings should continue after. I actually gave my husband less sex when we were simply living together and only engaged. That was my selfish stage when I was working. 

Neither my husband nor I have much desire for anal. I'm a little bit curious about it but hubby thinks it's disgusting. I would never ask him for it because I"m only curious and dont' want him trying something he thinks is gross.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I expect enthusiasm. I expect her to be into me.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well said, Working! Alas, it appears that that is too much for some.


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## Cookie99 (May 21, 2012)

Seriously

Rights and expectations are meaningless when it comes to relationships with humans in a marriage or any other relationhsip. It is what you experience is what you get period!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'd have to disagree with you, Cookie. I have the right to be treated with respect. I have the right to be safe in my own home. And I have certain expectations as to sex. Now, if I made a bad choice, I have to own that, but to say that people have no rights in human relationships?

I would have to strenuously disagree with that.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I expect what I married.
> 
> There are reasons why I married who I did and their sexual repertoire is one of those reasons.
> 
> If I was getting it prior to marriage I expect it to continue.


I would say this represents a reasonable level of expectation - that it will not manifestly worsen, outside of serious health / relationship issues.

I think expecting it to improve once you are married in terms of quality, through understanding and practice, is a reasonable expectation too.

However, reading these boards would lead me to believe that these are NOT in any way reasonable expectations.

There is a strong feeling that if you get married, you are entitled to a reasonable sex life. However, you are NOT permitted to hold any expectations whatsoever of what the frequency, quality, variety and delivery of that sex life will be. And if you do, you are holding "unreasonable" expectations.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> There is a strong feeling that if you get married, you are entitled to a reasonable sex life. However, you are NOT permitted to hold any expectations whatsoever of what the frequency, quality, variety and delivery of that sex life will be. And if you do, you are holding "unreasonable" expectations.


Essentially, this is where my question came from. It seems agreed to that people can expect sex in a marriage, but there isn't even a reasonable guideline on what type of sex, how often, when, etc. 

I agree with the expectation to get what you got before marriage, to a degree, but even that leaves questions.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

You're right, Kings, but that all comes down to communication. Or more precisely, lack of communication, without which this board would not exist. It'd be good if people talked this out before marriage, but they don't. This is one reason that the wedding industry makes me nuts -- people spend more time discussing the color of napkins than they do their sexual expectations.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Whatever the physical norm has been either in the marital or the premarital relationship, in all reality, should continue.

All too often, when it doesn't continue that way, one or both partners may be using certain aspects of marital sex strictly as a ploy or even as a reward, _per se_, to manipulate the other partner into satisfying some element of a non-sexual need of theirs. Such behavior is often counterproductive and is detrimental to the welfare of the marital union and to the overall relationship.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

As an engaged man who is already divorced, I plan on talking about everything, even what has been discussed several time over already. Our wedding date is just over two years away, and I set that date for a reason. Saving money was one, but communication is the other. And while sex is not my biggest priority, it is something which is a top five priority for me, so I want to make sure we are as in sync as we can be before the big day. I had a failed marriage once and I do not want to be that guy who is twice divorced. I know the stigma that comes with the label of being a 'divorcee', it seems 10 times worse as a double divorcee.

I plan on talking to her about everything from the color of the napkins to if she's willing to have sex on a tightrope, lol. Communication is the big key to anything, especially sex.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Essentially, this is where my question came from. It seems agreed to that people can expect sex in a marriage, but there isn't even a reasonable guideline on what type of sex, how often, when, etc.
> 
> I agree with the expectation to get what you got before marriage, to a degree, but even that leaves questions.


Over here in the UK, there's an expression used when you are told you have a "choice" of things.

"You don't actually have a right to choose anything, but you are entitled to express a preference". It's a bit like that, it seems, for a lot of folks. You have a right to hope for certain things, sexually, in your marriage, but when it comes down to it "You'll have what you're given, and you'll like it".



lamaga said:


> You're right, Kings, but that all comes down to communication. Or more precisely, lack of communication, without which this board would not exist. It'd be good if people talked this out before marriage, but they don't. This is one reason that the wedding industry makes me nuts -- people spend more time discussing the color of napkins than they do their sexual expectations.


Because people are expected to keep schtumm about any sexual expectations - in fact, you are expected to _NOT_ have expectations. After all, expectations are putting pressure on your partner! Sex, it appears, should become perfect for both partners by luck, magic and osmosis, but certainly not by anything as base as discussion or expectation!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

"if she's willing to have sex on a tightrope"

I don't recommend it, Kings...there's the whole chafing issue


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## WishIknew5 (Dec 20, 2010)

I wouldnt call it an expectation, but if you have pre-marital sex a certain way before then why should it stop after you say "i do". That would kinda make one beleive that type of sex was like ohh i just acted like because i wasnt married, but not that we are married I cant be like that anymore...why?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> "if she's willing to have sex on a tightrope"
> 
> I don't recommend it, Kings...there's the whole chafing issue


Only one way to find out


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Oral is expected in my marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

WishIknew5 said:


> I wouldnt call it an expectation, but if you have pre-marital sex a certain way before then why should it stop after you say "i do". That would kinda make one beleive that type of sex was like ohh i just acted like because i wasnt married, but not that we are married I cant be like that anymore...why?


Because:

"Nice married people" don't do that sort of thing;
They never really liked it but felt they needed to do it in order to get their partner to marry them;
Now they're married it should just be "nice" without any effort;
They don't G.A.S.

etc, etc, etc. Read the messages - you'll find plenty of reasons from both men and women.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> I plan on talking to her about everything from the color of the napkins to if she's willing to have sex on a tightrope, lol. Communication is the big key to anything, especially sex.


And if she says "I don't want to talk about stuff like that..."

What are you going to do?


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## WishIknew5 (Dec 20, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Because:
> 
> "Nice married people" don't do that sort of thing;
> They never really liked it but felt they needed to do it in order to get their partner to marry them;
> ...



The why was out of frustration....not a question. But i agree with you. Its like wow...how did this happen all because we got married :scratchhead:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Cookie99 said:


> Seriously
> 
> Rights and expectations are meaningless when it comes to relationships with humans in a marriage or any other relationhsip. It is what you experience is what you get period!


Until you change your experience.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> And if she says "I don't want to talk about stuff like that..."
> 
> What are you going to do?


If she never talks? Leave.

Marriage sucks in every area, not just sex, when communication isn't there. I have a 10 year relationship/marriage with my ex to prove it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Additionally, if is correct to 'expect' oral, anal, etc. if that was what was offered when dating and prior to being married, but that stopped at some point after marriage (once again, assuming no physical or other disabilities causing this issue). Does one partner have a right to expect the other to maintain what they had done prior to marriage? 


Yes! This!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

My wife would be willing to give me whatever I desired of her. I am willing to give her whatever she desires of me. If both partners are not willing to give full sexual access to the other partner, then they really shouldn't marry. 

Now if something is hurtful or painful that's another matter. But a mere preference should not be enough of a reason to not do something sexually.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Sandc, that's it exactly. If my H wants me to let him eat peanut butter off my knee, then I'm going to do that. It may not be what I'm into, but if it doesn't hurt or disgust me, then why not?


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

I agree and expected that whatever happened during dating should continue into the relationship. Otherwise you feel like it's a bait and switch. which unfortunately happens to lots of guys (and girls I'm sure).


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## As You Wish (Jun 5, 2012)

Same as others have said...I'd expect frequency to stay the same, as least. i think that's reasonable. And oral is an expectation for us, too. Everything else is negotiable, as long as the number on the bottom line stays the same or goes higher.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Sandc, that's it exactly. If my H wants me to let him eat peanut butter off my knee, then I'm going to do that. It may not be what I'm into, but if it doesn't hurt or disgust me, then why not?


Peanut butter flavored knees ARE simply scrumptious. Add a little chocolate and... BAM!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I think the only expectation i had was vaginal sex with frequency. Although I would have probably tried most anything if she has asked, I could have been happy with intercourse only if that was what she wanted, but i certainly expected it more often.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I guess I was lucky, or stupid, in that I went into our marriage with basically no expectations on the sexual front. Maybe it's stupid ... because we did not talk about what we expected before we got married (and we could have never even imagined back then what it is we would go through and have to endure together over the next 23 years). It was only as we hit bumps and bad patches that we were forced to focus on it and work on it...forced to negotiate, if you will.

I found out the hard way that a person's expectations of another that are unvoiced to them and that are not agreed upon by them can cause all sorts of problems... and I found that expectations of any sort come with NO guarantees.


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## dream_weaver (Jun 5, 2012)

I think you'd have a level of expectation that the sex would be the same when married,i would but after being married for over 20yrs to my ex I understand it doesn't continue on the same level...there are alot of factors contributing to this...for us it was health issues (mine), bouts of depression,lack of hygeine on my ex's part(ewww) so things do change over time.Will be interesting with my current partner of 6mths how it goes.Our sex life just keeps getting better as we get to know each other more & I hope we can sustain it but no I don't have any expectations...


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Hey, Dream! The good thing is that once you've been thru the bad, you are so much more grateful for the good, and you nurture it carefully. Good luck with your current partner!


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## dream_weaver (Jun 5, 2012)

Lamaga :iagree: he's a keeper & don't want to lose him & thankfully he feels the same for me


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Hmm... I just now discussed this with my husband. I don't have any expectations when it comes to sex in a marriage... Hubby will post up his POV when he decides to hop on here lol. When it happens I am grateful for it but it isn't expected. The whole expecting thing.. seems to take away the feeling of love and specialness imo.


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Hmm... I just now discussed this with my husband. I don't have any expectations when it comes to sex in a marriage... Hubby will post up his POV when he decides to hop on here lol. When it happens I am grateful for it but it isn't expected. The whole expecting thing.. seems to take away the feeling of love and specialness imo.


Agree
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Call it fantasy if you will but I've always felt that it should be spontaneous and heartfelt with little to no reservations! And that's both giving and receiving!


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

My husband expects blow jobs at least 3 times a week. 

I expect sex at least 3 times a week. 

My husband expects us to try everything at least once, not with other people. 

I didn't think anal was going to happen, but it does. 

We were both young, and didn't really understand what we were doing or how big a commitment it would be. 

He expected me to be open to things. And just because we did something once, and had a bad go, we would try it again at a later date.


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## clearskies (Jun 9, 2012)

Because I didn't have any pre-marital sex, my expectations were to grow and learn together. Like Panda, be willing to try new things, understand limits, yet at the same time push boundaries. I figured since we would have a lifetime together there is no reason to pull all of the toys out of the toy chest!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

For me, it was the sex before that was expected after marriage.

if the person you're dating isn't freaky or into what you like, it won't change after marriage. i advise people not to settle.

if you have settled, then, what you have is what you get. Unless your partner is willing to grow and learn sexually.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As the great Athenian philosopher Mediocrates said "Set the bar low, you can't miss."


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## As You Wish (Jun 5, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> As the great Athenian philosopher Mediocrates said "Set the bar low, you can't miss."


You're a ray of sunshine and an inspiration to others.:smthumbup:


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I have zero expectations of one another in regards of anything. I do believe this is what keeps our marriage so strong.


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## As You Wish (Jun 5, 2012)

Really? No expectations at all? That seems a little...odd. lol
You don't expect anything? Like not even that he will hold a job, etc?


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

Expectations are different for all people. So nobody can say xwz is correct one.

But generally, what is done and offered during dating is expected barring anything medical..no ifs ands or buts allowed as far as I am concerned. (and if a couple decide to wait til marriage for sex) then a MAJOR discussion of what both want, expect, like, desire, etc needs to be laid out, written out so neither party can say they never said "that" or at least agreed to try "that"


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

As You Wish said:


> Really? No expectations at all? That seems a little...odd. lol
> You don't expect anything? Like not even that he will hold a job, etc?


Expectations, no. Boundaries, yes, but only one. That is no casual friendships with the opposite sex.

My husband has very good work ethics. I support him fully if he needed a job change or if he wasn't happy with his current job situation. My husband is very work and family oriented. I knew this prior into marrying him.

One thing we do is support one another on every little thing. We have a very strong relationship and a beautiful marriage.

We constantly do things for each other meeting one another's needs. It's not expected, but rather a gift for each other. We strive to make each other happy. It's what works for us. We communicate fabulously and are each others best friends.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My husband and I have zero expectations of one another in regards of anything. I do believe this is what keeps our marriage so strong.


Really? So if he stopped showering every day, you'd be fine with that? Or if him giving you an orgasm when you have sex was "normal" and he suddenly became a "pump and dump chump", that wouldn't make you ask him "WTF"?

As far as I'm concerned, we have expectations in every relationship. I expect my employer to put money in my bank accounts on a regular basis. I expect my kids to treat me (and each other) with dignity and respect. And I expect that my intimate partner will continue to be interested in an fulfilling intimate relationship. Of course, along with that, I have obligations to meet their expectations too...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

PBear said:


> Really? So if he stopped showering every day, you'd be fine with that? Or if him giving you an orgasm when you have sex was "normal" and he suddenly became a "pump and dump chump", that wouldn't make you ask him "WTF"?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, we have expectations in every relationship. I expect my employer to put money in my bank accounts on a regular basis. I expect my kids to treat me (and each other) with dignity and respect. And I expect that my intimate partner will continue to be interested in an fulfilling intimate relationship. Of course, along with that, I have obligations to meet their expectations too...
> 
> ...


Every marriage is different. Yes, we don't have expectations of one another. If we did, resentment would build. If we have an issue we dislike, we talk them through. Sometimes it takes a day or two to make a compromise talking it through in a normal tone. We've had maybe 1-2 arguments in the last 13 years due to work stress. However, he did not yell or raise his voice very loudly.

We are both very laid back people. You have to remember that I broke my neck 4 years ago. Living in this pain is the most difficult thing on earth. I don't wish it upon anyone ever.

My husband has an OCD of being clean right down to flossing twice a day. I foresee no issues in hygiene. The only time we had lack of intimacy was after I broke my neck. It took a while to get back into where we were. Actually it's better then ever. Sex has never been an issue with us. Neither has affection. We still hold hands everyday and compliment each other often. I like spicing things up once in a while with little surprises.

Since the day I met my husband, he has always strived to put my needs before his own. He's a very very very exceptional husband. I have never heard him complain about anything. Me, I'm not that positive. I have PMS and I hide in my room those two days, so I'm not taking my anger out on others.

We both know what our "duties" are. If something does not get done, it'll be there tomorrow. We are extremely compatible and we both adore each other.

We do however have many expectations of the children until they are grown and moved out of the house. We both are very strict when it comes to parenting and teaching our children what's right and what's wrong, especially how we treat each other. My oldest(daughter) is joining the National Guard in the next few weeks.

My husband and I mostly have positive days and a positive outlook on life. We are very blessed in life!

I'm absolutely in love with my husband, his feeling towards me are mutual, if not stronger! We both are looking forward for him to have an early retirement, so we can spend more time together. We work very hard meeting each others needs. Life is good even though I'm now disabled with a massive neck injury and pain. I must not dwell on it and move forward.


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## Batman64 (Nov 25, 2011)

Everyone has expectations. There is no reason to believe that going into marriage that that would change. It is a part of being human.

I expected that everything my wife and I did in the first 5 years of our marriage would continue thru the next 20...but it has not. 

We pretty much have sex 2-3 times a week. I offer her oral anytime she wants and she never offers me. We occasionally have a good 69 that gives me some oral pleasure but this has been reduced from what used to be a couple times a week to a couple times a year :wtf: Our sex life used to include multiple positions which kept things exciting and different. After around 15 years though, many "normal" things became taboo.....like her going down on me (use to give me oral 2-3 times a week), like her riding me (used to be once a week, now never), like doggie style sex (used to be once a month , now she says she hates it), like me going down on her (used to be 4-5 times a week, now once a month if shes in the mood). 

I certainly have expectations of my wife and I know she has them of me. I keep hoping that we can get back to halfway where we used to be. I expect us to. I sure miss my younger wife and her loving ways.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

People are "allowed" to expect whatever they want.

Marriage comes with the assumption that there will be sex.

I expect sex at least three times a week. So does my husband and it works well for us. 

We want each other to continue to look forward to lovemaking, so no "chore sex" happens in our marriage.

We expect to give and receive oral. It doesn't have to be every encounter, but both of us look forward to giving and receiving that particular pleasure.

Yesterday I was in the WORST mood because I was cranky from little sleep and stressed out about an exam.

My husband made love to me and I was smiling again. :smthumbup:


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Every couple is different but I was very open with my wife before we got married. As long as it was just me and her, no threesomes or other parties involved, we would try it if it came up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> I think that marriage includes an expectation of sex. It seems from reading these boards that that is an agreed to statement, assuming no severe physical on other diabilities which would prevent that.
> 
> That being said, what type of sex is one allowed to expect in marriage?
> 
> ...


It is reasonable to expect the type of sex you had prior to marriage. Sometimes there is what amounts to a bait and switch.

Now ideally ones sex life continues to grow over time, but one cannot assume that.


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> It is reasonable to expect the type of sex you had prior to marriage. Sometimes there is what amounts to a bait and switch.
> 
> Now ideally ones sex life continues to grow over time, but one cannot assume that.


From the very first time my W and I began having sex, it was all very straight forward, missionary, variations on missionary, her on top etc... and it remained that way after we got married and for the next 15 years. 

It's what I expected, and wanted, and I never heard a single complaint or request. Then last summer, she confesses her want for a list of things she used to enjoy: oral, anal, rough, lite bondage, and so on - none of which I want anything to do with. Was it 'bait and switch? I don't know... and I have no idea why she's hid all these things until now. Except that it's possible that if she had mentioned all these 'preferences' back when we first met... that I probably wouldn't have stuck around. She wouldn't have been someone I would have been interested in dating.


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## mina (Jun 14, 2012)

so the reason I joined this forum today is because of what WorkingOnMe said in this thread: "I expect her to be enthusiastic. I expect her to be into me." that is really cool!  seems totally reasonable. I know that's what my husband digs the most.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MrVanilla said:


> From the very first time my W and I began having sex, it was all very straight forward, missionary, variations on missionary, her on top etc... and it remained that way after we got married and for the next 15 years.
> 
> It's what I expected, and wanted, and I never heard a single complaint or request. Then last summer, she confesses her want for a list of things she used to enjoy: oral, anal, rough, lite bondage, and so on - none of which I want anything to do with. Was it 'bait and switch? I don't know... and I have no idea why she's hid all these things until now. Except that it's possible that if she had mentioned all these 'preferences' back when we first met... that I probably wouldn't have stuck around. She wouldn't have been someone I would have been interested in dating.


Personally, I'd say 15 years is a long time to wait to pull the closer on the bait and switch tactic, so I'd assume it's not that.

Sounds more like a mid-life crisis, coupled with boredom and missing somethings she used to enjoy. 

I actually had a conversation with my fiancee last week about some of the things I used to get that I don't get as much of anymore. It wasn't a bait and switch,m it was just explaining that I have wants and I'd like to discuss them. Sounds like the same thing here.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I expect enthusiasm. I expect her to be into me.


I agree with this. Specific acts seems kind of weird to negotiate...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> As the great Athenian philosopher Mediocrates said "Set the bar low, you can't miss."


Amen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Personally, I'd say 15 years is a long time to wait to pull the closer on the bait and switch tactic, so I'd assume it's not that.
> 
> Sounds more like a mid-life crisis, coupled with boredom and missing somethings she used to enjoy.


So if I can just get over being completely appalled at what she used to 'enjoy' then everything will be fine. 

Is there a prescription drug for that?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Ah, Mr. Vanilla. I don't really know what to say to you. I had been wondering for a while if Mrs. Vanilla was quite as sanguine about your situation as you are.

Appalled? Really? You don't _have_ to do anything, you know, but opening your mind just a little bit wouldn't hurt either. Some of the things that appall you -- oral sex, for example, which you've stated you find very distressing -- are activities that most humans throughout history have enjoyed.

Not criticizing what you like and don't like because that's you, but I am criticizing the fact that you seem pretty closed off to trying things just because 20 years ago you didn't like them.

Just a thought -- I'm really not trying to pick a fight, you seem like a pretty cordial guy, but OMG some of the things you say 

Anyway, hope you take this in the spirit in which it's intended, which is give and take on an anonymous internet forum. And have a good weekend.


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

lamaga said:


> A
> Just a thought -- I'm really not trying to pick a fight, you seem like a pretty cordial guy, but OMG some of the things you say
> 
> Anyway, hope you take this in the spirit in which it's intended, which is give and take on an anonymous internet forum. And have a good weekend.


I'm not a fighter, so we're good. =) My apologies if I say things incorrectly... I'm not trying to be rude at all, I just don't know any other way to say them. I've never discussed these things before. I'm a babe in the woods, trying not to be eaten alive by the wolves.  

I hope all have a good weekend, esp. with our spouses. =)


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

My personal philosophy is that over time our wants, tastes, and needs change. Some of that is physiological and hormonal as we age. But some of it is personal change and even personal growth. As we become more open with our partners, we discover things about ourselves that we either weren't aware of, or were aware of but didn't seem important enough to make an issue. In my humble opinion it's not bait and switch to discover that something that never was appealing or important in the past is now a really hot turn on. In my own experience, approaching my wife about exploring those things took a huge act of acceptance that she wouldn't judge me for wanting them. I am forever greatful that she didn't judge my desires or turn them down outright. It also opened the door to discovering some things that really turn her on.

If we weren't talking about sex my thoughts are that as spouses we need to encourage and accept personal growth and change. As spouses part of being loving and supportive is finding a way to bring those changes into our relationship in a way that works for both of us and respects both of our desires. 

I feel the same way about sexual changes. If your feelings about her kinks are repulsive, then you may not be able to find a way to meet her desires for these things. If you can find a middle ground that meets both of your needs, then I think that your marriage will be stronger for it. Unilaterally dismissing her desires just because you don't like them (and I am not saying that you are) is dismissing a part of her. You may find that even if you're not completely "into" a sex act that it fills a need in her and makes her feel more connected to you. You may also find that you can be completely into her pleasure even if something isn't a turn on for you.




MrVanilla said:


> Last summer, she confesses her want for a list of things she used to enjoy: oral, anal, rough, lite bondage, and so on - none of which I want anything to do with. Was it 'bait and switch? I don't know... and I have no idea why she's hid all these things until now. Except that it's possible that if she had mentioned all these 'preferences' back when we first met... that I probably wouldn't have stuck around. She wouldn't have been someone I would have been interested in dating.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

I am not sure which thread this belongs in, but I'm putting my reply here rather than cross-polinate the thread where you posted it.



MrVanilla said:


> My W is keeping her memories of sex acts she used to enjoy with men in her past... things we've never done together and things she wants to do now. might this be why I'm so reluctant? She's with me now, and needs to let the past be the past. I think this kind of hurt can go both ways, and I agree that we have to look past it to fix what we have.


If your wife has told you that she wants kinky sex because it reminds you of her exes, then you have a leg to stand on. My guess is that it has nothing to do with that, but I don't know what you've discussed with your wife. Only she can tell you if when she married you she wasn't all that into them, or if she supressed them because she loved you so much that she was willing to live without them for you. 

If I were to guess I'd say that this has nothing to do with past lovers, and everything to do with having fun, hot sex with the man that she loves now. If she enjoyed it before you got married, then I'd guess it's more likely that she used to enjoy the eroticism and physical sensations of those acts, and would love to enjoy them again _with you_. For all I know she read 50 Shades and like a million other women suddenly wants to know what a walk on the wild side feels like with a man that she loves and feels safe with.

How you respond is up to you, but a knee-jerk reaction doesn't seem like a loving way to repay the trust and vulnerability that she's shown by asking you for changes in bed. You can either accept that your wife trusted you enough to share very intimate desires with you, or show her that risking sharing with you is a bad thing.

If I were in your shoes, either sexually or for any other thing my wife were to ask for, I'd talk with her about how I can support her desires. If after really making an effort I found that something were truly not to my tastes, I would then ask her to see things from my point of view. If my wife were to suddenly ask me for really hardcore kink that leaves a mark or blood, I could never do it. If she told me that a good spanking would lead to a very enthusiastic ****, I'd ask how hard.

Try it. You might like it.


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

pplwatching

I really appreciate you taking the time to speak on these issues. If I had given up, I wouldn't be here asking, so there is a willingness on my part to find answers. =) 

I've come to accept one thing: I'm suffering somewhat from culture shock. 

Our desires, I think, have a base somewhere. They start from a friend, or something you read, or watched, or a movie, or a past lover, or... well.. _something_. Somewhere in our lives we have been exposed to an idea that intrigued us. Whether it was a place we wanted to go, or a thing we wanted to do, somehow this exposure to an idea created a want... a desire. 

In my case, I've led a sheltered life. There was never a time when I was exposed to many of theses sex acts. (I'm in my 50's!) Without that exposure , I never formed a want or desire for them. No one I know ever mentioned _doing_ these things before (with one exception thirty years ago) and never did anyone I had been with since ask for these things...

Does this mean they don't exist? No, not at all. They exist! But they didn't exist in _my_ world - and therein lies the difficulty. For me to want something, to desire it, be passionate about it... I kinda need to know it exists. Now that I know about them, and am somewhat put-off by them, there still isn't any want or desire. =(

Yes, I could do these things simply because she asks. It's a _very_ good reason, but I've never had sex with the woman I love without want and desire. I've never had sex with her while she's turned on and I'm turned off. So there has to be answer for this, and I'm going to find it, because I'd rather make love to her than have sex with her. 

Thank you for the help. 

I'm going to read and re-read these several times. Maybe it will help me find that key I need.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with how you feel, but in some sense I think you may be experiencing a slight case of tunnel vision. Have you really talked to your wife about this? I don't mean "I told her I won't do this" but said what you just wrote here?

I chose spanking as an example because that is something that my wife enjoys. I was raised not to hit women and it runs against my grain. If we were talking about actual punishment, the answer would absolutely be "no". In sex play when I hear her breathing, watch her move and respond, and experience how deeply turned on she is ... *that* is deeply erotic and very exciting. It makes me feel very connected to her. Even moreso when we finally entwine and I can feel her response. It reassures me that this is what she wants and that is a turn on for me. Perhaps you will discover the same thing. 

Just try to keep an open mind. You don't have to try everything, and you don't have to do something kinky every time you have sex. This doesn't have to be the 800lb gorilla in the room. Ask her for ideas about how to move forward, and in return to accept that you are uncomfortable and need her understanding and guidance. You might be surprised how much a simple willingness to try is worth. You might also find that her sexual response motivates you and find that you enjoy it too. 

If you find that after making a real and persistant effort that it's just not for you, you can cross that bridge at that time.

Best of luck to you. Write any time.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I think that marriage includes an expectation of sex. It seems from reading these boards that that is an agreed to statement, assuming no severe physical on other diabilities which would prevent that.
> 
> That being said, what type of sex is one allowed to expect in marriage?
> 
> ...


you should expect at minimum what ever kinds of sex you had before marriage . if there was no sex before marriage then you should expect your partner to at least be willing to try all types of sex . also you should expect your partner to at least think about and discuss any and all sexual activities that you would be interested in . 
i feel that in my relationship i expect that my partner not go outside of our marriage to get her sexual desires fulfilled . since i expect that of her it is my responsibility to at the very least seriously entertain my partners desires . if the answer is no then i at the minimum owe my partner a valid reason for denying her . but more importantly why wouldnt anyone want to satisfy their partner sexually . if you do not want to then the real question is why are you with your partner .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Hmm... I just now discussed this with my husband. I don't have any expectations when it comes to sex in a marriage... Hubby will post up his POV when he decides to hop on here lol. When it happens I am grateful for it but it isn't expected. The whole expecting thing.. seems to take away the feeling of love and specialness imo.


that would lead me to believe that if your husband never wanted to have sex again you would be ok with that . that would definitely make you in the very rare minority . for the other 99.9% of people sex in a marriage is expected . expected to varying degrees by everyone but expected none the less . if you should not expect sex from your spouse , who should you expect it from ?


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