# EA v. PA - which is worse?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Frequently on these message boards two types of affairs are discussed - emotional affairs and physical affairs. Many seem to be a combination of the two but often an affair is one or the other. In your opinion is one type of affair easier to get over then another? EA v. PA which is easier to move past?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

EA's usually lead to PA's.

Or another way to state it, most PA's start out as EA's.
Quite often only distance keeps an EA turning into a PA. Then quite often sexting, skyping, and mutual masturbation is another form of a PA.

They are both as bad because the WS has destroyed the trust of the marriage.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Would you rather be shot to death or stabbed to death?

About 1 second after, I don't really care which it was, just that it happened.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*An EA, in and of itself, involves the greatest threat as the ultimate betrayal of marital trust. And even if a reconciliation is being sought from an EA, just getting that trust back to square one, is an issue, in and of itself!

All that the PA actually is, is nothing more than the physical consummation of the illicit EA relationship, much like wedding night sex is supposedly to cement and strengthen the marital vows!*


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<EA's usually lead to PA's.

Or another way to state it, most PA's start out as EA's.
Quite often only distance keeps an EA turning into a PA. Then quite often sexting, skyping, and mutual masturbation is another form of a PA.

They are both as bad because the WS has destroyed the trust of the marriage.>.

Totally agree as my WH's A was long distance but very sexual anyway as described above. The intent was there, along with all the deceit, lying, lying by omission and general breaking of my heart, so, to me, there is no difference.

The only 'good' thing about it is I will never have to worry about running into her, and that's about it.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Both suck but you cannot infect your spouse with an std from an EA. Also an EA does not lead to paternity fraud. 

Still both suck. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Any cheating is bad, but an emotional/romantic attachment would be more problematical for us. We have an open relationship, so sex with others isn't a problem, but if the attachment became more than a friends with benefits level it would definitely be a problem and that's where we'd veto the arrangement (assuming it's an agreed arrangement and not cheating - which would be far more serious).


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

An EA is just a PA that hasn't happened yet. Who has an EA if they aren't really, deep down, when you're being completely honest, looking for a PA? I guess putting the P into the V matters to some, but really, they're not really that different. My husband initially thought it would matter to me that he hadn't actually met up with anyone, but it didn't. If he HAD understood that, he could have saved himself the encounter with the hooker.


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## sang-froid (May 2, 2013)

Once a PA is discovered, there may be attempts to diminish the impact of the violation, but the fact that there has been a violation is generally clear cut. 
With the discovery of an EA, there are often attempts to deny that there has been a violation, to gaslight you, invalidate your feelings, etc., both by the WS and by others who don't want to recognize an EA as truly being cheating because it hasn't been physically consummated.
I agree with the shot vs. stabbed analogy. I've been on the receiving end of both and I can't say one hurt me less than the other. The EAs haunt me more because they were over longer periods of time and have overshadowed any good memories I have during those time periods so I'm not left with much that I can point to and say "we were truly happy then."


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Depends also on the betrayed.

RDMU is doing well. It is in his psychology to be able to forgive, especially in light she did not love the OM. This was a classic friend player situation meets cake eater.

My psychology is ENTIRELY different. The only story I have seen here I could even think of R is RTBP's wife. To me PA is simply a deal breaker.

Above are quite correct in many ways.
My trust is destroyed. I still resent that.
She lied. I still resent that.

Looking back our marriage has been weak starting back ~7 years slowly weakening. Boiling the lobster scenario. Worse over time.

half literate hillbilly ex of hers contacted her sometime before April 12 2012 (earliest email I recovered tho it references earlier emails. No, idiot me didn't forward them to myself at the time. I was newer here. Yes weightlifter makes mistakes. LOTS of them in fact.)
Wife started hard detaching ~June/July 2012 when emails were still largely benign tho hidden from me. (Stuff like I went huntin' killed a whatthefvckever)
Emails evolved around Dec 2012 into beginning of EA.
Dday March 2 2013 758AM.
Big fights Feb/Mar 2013. 
Try to work on marriage Late Mar after long talks. April is better. Do dates by mutual agreement and spend time together. May begins long slide back as she slowly detaches again even tho Im still doing the dates thing. I remember the last one in early June. Suggested lunch together and got a crappy response to even doing it.

Her computer history looks clear and yes I have been looking. Im just pretty sure she loves me as a co-parent but not husband. I think she fell out of love with me ~July 2012 subconsciously she was pining for the hillbilly. They rarely come back.

Agree with above. What saved my wifes EA from becoming a PA? 600 miles, she is lazy, and has no concept of logistics.

What keeps me here? Being stubborn and being hit from all sides as Im still badly underemployed. If I could just get the damn job thing down I think I could get alot more clarity on the marriage thing. If I could just get all the crap coming at me from just one direction I believe I could see alot better. Oh and I love my kids to pieces.

EAs are rot. My marriage was say Grade C say Jan 1 2012. The EA... just rots it from there. Had it been grade B that date I dont think it would have done as much damage.

Wow rambling answer. Whats worse? Depends!


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<An EA is just a PA that hasn't happened yet. Who has an EA if they aren't really, deep down, when you're being completely honest, looking for a PA? >>

Not necessarily. As discussed in my previous post my WH chose online affairs I think because he didn't really want to chance a PA. So, instead, the love and sex was all in their minds and hearts, which , isn't it really anyway? 

All the lies, all the deception on both of their parts, the plotting , the planning when to talk, how to talk, text, sext, message, chat, when to go further from the flirting, all the I love yous, the telling of their sad and lonely home-lives and disparaging stories about their spouses to justify their actions. Even after the OWsH saw a sexting monologue and told her to stop it, they did not stop, until i caught them. 

And yes, this was for a second time with the same OW. I don't know why I gave him another chance, but I did, and it has not been easy, but, so far, he is working hard at proving he can be the H he should have been all along.


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## angrybuttrying (Jun 17, 2013)

My two cents, for me a PA is worse. My WW had an EA, very short term, very remorseful and has stated she may never be able to forgive herself. We are in R, and through it all, I honesty don't know how I could ever have sex with her again if she had a PA. I think it would end with me strangling her, like a horror movie. 

Of course, I also felt that I could never forgive any infidelity or violation of trust, but I feel like I have. If there's one thing I've tried to learn, it's not to judge. Every situation is different, unique and is fraught with nuances, any one of which could change the way someone would/should act. 

In my situation, the EA was truly getting ready to turn into an exit PA, but after dday, confrontation, immediate (that day) NC, we seem to have come back from the brink and have renewed our marriage, both learning from our mistakes, etc. We both still suffer at times, for different reasons, but we're working on our marriage and our life together now. 

EA for me was easier to deal with, and for those that have suffered through their spouses PA (especially any H's that had their W's involved in PAs) and are R, I applaud you, but I don't think I could do it.

Just my two (or less) cents...


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## wateroffaduck (Sep 19, 2013)

I had to go with PA being far worse.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

I haven't read any of the previous posts, but I will share my thoughts quickly....

It depends.

A PA would probably be worse on an equal footing of time. A ONS is bad, but is it worse than a long EA?

Who knows. They both suck, and reveal the character of the WS.


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## javawave (Apr 7, 2013)

depends on the who and how often/much. I would place an EA harder over a one night stand. a long term PA would probably include an EA. neither one is good.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Cheating is cheating to me. Unless it's a ONS, both probably have the emotional affair elements to it.

Most EA's also have the sexual element even if the P doesn't actually enter the V. They're there through sexual discussions, the flirting, the fantasies, phone/cyber sex etc. The deception, the lies, the crazymaking, the mind-fvcking, gaslighting, blaming etc. occurs in both.

I think it's silly to compare them. They both hurt and the devastation feels the same. Measuring pain is impossible. One man/woman's pain can only be experienced by them. 

To me the emotional element was the most hurtful to me. Even when I think about the sex he had while we . That love and affection, those kind thoughts were supposed to be for me. Instead, they went to her or to them while he treated me like sh!t. As far as I'm concerned, when I was having sex with him, he was masturbating in me as long as the cheating was going on. His body was with me but his mind was with her and to me that's disgusting.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> Cheating is cheating to me. Unless it's a ONS, both probably have the emotional affair elements to it.
> 
> Most EA's also have the sexual element even if the P doesn't actually enter the V. They're there through sexual discussions, the flirting, the fantasies, phone/cyber sex etc. The deception, the lies, the crazymaking, the mind-fvcking, gaslighting, blaming etc. occurs in both.
> 
> ...


That is a great point...cheaters don't realize or really care that their infidelity tarnished EVERYTHING that went on during the affair - since the BS has no way of truly knowing what is real and what is fake during the time period of the affair...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

PamJ said:


> <<An EA is just a PA that hasn't happened yet. Who has an EA if they aren't really, deep down, when you're being completely honest, looking for a PA? >>
> 
> Not necessarily. As discussed in my previous post my WH chose online affairs I think because he didn't really want to chance a PA. So, instead, the love and sex was all in their minds and hearts, which , isn't it really anyway?


He would have rather had real sex with her. I don't consider this type of relationship an EA - it's a PA. When you're to the point of sexting, that IS a PA. Sex is physically stimulating. You can't call masturbating to sexts or chats, or thinking about your AP while having sex with your spouse, emotional - it's physical. Sure there's an emotional aspect as well, but what my husband did - sexting and chatting and being titillated by other women, but not actually meeting up with them - was far more physical than emotional. Just because two people never meet in person doesn't mean their relationship isn't sexual and therefore physical.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that when emotions are involved the person is in more of a fog...and unbeknowst to the BS who has no clue and thinks that everything is fine it is devestating when you find out.

I look back and think when I thought things were fine/normal little did i know that he was probably thinking about and missing his OW. He was probably all excited and looking forward to when he could sneak online and chat with her again...makes me feel real good knowing that was going on and at the time I had no clue. It sucks....it is truly a slap in the face to the BS.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Both can end you marriage. But one can end you sex life, as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hookares said:


> Both can end you marriage. But one can end you sex life, as well.


I Totally agree! If my wife had an EA, I would be mad as hell And I would fight very hard To save the marriage, Depending on how fast she snapped out of it, Or if she didn't, I would either R or D. Now if my wife had a PA, I would probably have to separate at least, Very probably divorce, But in both instances I would try to make sure she became a different person Because I love her dearly But I honestly don't know How I could ever Have sex with her again. I just don't know if I could get past The physical revulsion. I don't even know if I would want to get past it. Both types of affairs suck But I think I might be able to work through an EA but not a PA Just because I am extremely grossed out By touching another man's sloppy left overs!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<< As far as I'm concerned, when I was having sex with him, he was masturbating in me as long as the cheating was going on. His body was with me but his mind was with her and to me that's disgusting.>>

Mine swears this was not the case, he brought that up himself, but who knows if that's entirely true. He may now WANT it to be true, or it may be true, but, I will never really know.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

They are both betrayals. But I would be more likely to forgive a PA no strings attached than an EA, physical as well or not. My hubby says the opposite: might overlook an EA, but don't you dare sleep with another man lol...
Both are just as bad.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah, there is the one big issue about PA's introducing STD's.

Sexual "cleanliness" is a big issue for me. I'm a little OCD about my member in regards to what I put it in. I know I might get flamed but it's partially why I didn't want a partner who had a ton of sexual partners, but that's not the issue. STD's are still a very much unknown issue. They still don't fully understand things like herpes, HPV etc. 

So the only thing about a PA that makes it worse than an EA is the introduction of STD's. Knowing my wife is clean and I'm clean is a huge relief. It was one of the reasons I hated dating and couldn't do casual sex LOL.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

gbrad said:


> If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.


*But the percentages are heavily favorable that an EA almost always, does go PA. In an EA, the WS is hiding and omissive in telling their married partner the whole truth about what's going on. No matter how you paint that beast, it is still richly referred to as "deception!" 

That's why in my estimation, that an EA is so much more dangerous than even a PA!*


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.>>

I totally disagree. Telling another person you love them, and not in a friendship way, sharing secrets, lying to your spouse to carry on the EA, whether outright, or by omission is cheating. 

Taking your love away from your spouse, and family, as it usually means time away from both, and giving it to another is cheating. 

Even if it doesn't go to sexting or sending pictures, which is highly unusual for it not to go there, it is still betrayal and deception. not just a special friend thing.

And , believe me, it hurts.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> I haven't read any of the previous posts, but I will share my thoughts quickly....
> 
> It depends.
> 
> ...


Good point about a long term EA v. a ONS....and you are right it does reveal the character of the WS - how much they are willing to lie and deceive....


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

PamJ said:


> <<If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.>>
> 
> I totally disagree. Telling another person you love them, and not in a friendship way, sharing secrets, lying to your spouse to carry on the EA, whether outright, or by omission is cheating.
> 
> ...


That is my point, if it stays just as a friendship relationship and doesn't go beyond that. But most people here seem to say that you can't just be friends with someone of the opposite sex. Which not everybody agrees with. I have spoken with many friends about this, as long as it stays just friends, then it is okay.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<That is my point, if it stays just as a friendship relationship and doesn't go beyond that. But most people here seem to say that you can't just be friends with someone of the opposite sex. Which not everybody agrees with. I have spoken with many friends about this, as long as it stays just friends, then it is okay.>>

But, then that is not an Emotional AFFAIR, it is just a friendship with the opposite sex. You stated <<If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.>> and that is not true. An EA IS an affair, by definition. Without the emotional element , love, lust, secrets, deception , all above board that your spouse knows about and is fine with THEN it is a 'close friend'.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

PamJ said:


> <<That is my point, if it stays just as a friendship relationship and doesn't go beyond that. But most people here seem to say that you can't just be friends with someone of the opposite sex. Which not everybody agrees with. I have spoken with many friends about this, as long as it stays just friends, then it is okay.>>
> 
> But, then that is not an Emotional AFFAIR, it is just a friendship with the opposite sex. You stated <<If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.>> and that is not true. An EA IS an affair, by definition. Without the emotional element , love, lust, secrets, deception , all above board that your spouse knows about and is fine with THEN it is a 'close friend'.



The problem continues to be what some people see as a close friend and what others deem to have crossed the line to being an EA.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think it goes back to common knowledge, that if you wouldn't do/say/act a certain way in front of your SO, it is an A. 

You don't tell you OS friends they are beautiful and love them, for example.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Pepper123 said:


> I think it goes back to common knowledge, that if you wouldn't do/say/act a certain way in front of your SO, it is an A.
> 
> You don't tell you OS friends they are beautiful and love them, for example.


Can you not love them as a friend? Tell them they look nice/good? People like to hear that in general. 
And there are many things I say or do away from my wife because she doesn't like them, but other people are okay with it.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: EA v. PA - which is worse?*



gbrad said:


> Can you not love them as a friend? Tell them they look nice/good? People like to hear that in general.
> And there are many things I say or do away from my wife because she doesn't like them, but other people are okay with it.


One of my best friends is male.... No, I don't tell him I love him nor do I mention how handsome he is. Both however are true.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Pepper123 said:


> One of my best friends is male.... No, I don't tell him I love him nor do I mention how handsome he is. Both however are true.


If its true why can't you say it? It's not like you are hitting on him, just being a good friend.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Usually sex isn't without emotion. 

Emotional affairs are by definition without sex.

I would have to go with physical coz it has elements of both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: EA v. PA - which is worse?*



gbrad said:


> If its true why can't you say it? It's not like you are hitting on him, just being a good friend.


Because I wouldn't want a SO of my own to tell another woman he loved her... At least not unless I was there. It is one thing to be open and honest... I'm totally fine with that. But if my SO would only say that in my absence... Heck yeah, I wouldn't like that. 

Maybe that makes me sound insecure... But I know first hand how easily those comments can innocently go from one place to the next.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I think you will find a difference between men and women. You won't with this poll. I don't know if that's allowed here. I just think it would be quite telling. If allowed, maybe you could add a section for men and one for women. I'd like to see the results. I don't want to be mistaken. It's just that I've read so much on here and other places that really seem to lean that way. I have even spoken with women who have had very strong emotions surrounding EA's. They will pay back with a PA and not think twice.


I've also heard that there's a difference in the way the genders perceive affairs. I've read that women feel more threatened by an EA, whereas men feel more threatened by a PA.

For my part, I wouldn't tolerate either.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Pepper123 said:


> Because I wouldn't want a SO of my own to tell another woman he loved her... At least not unless I was there. It is one thing to be open and honest... I'm totally fine with that. But if my SO would only say that in my absence... Heck yeah, I wouldn't like that.
> 
> Maybe that makes me sound insecure... But I know first hand how easily those comments can innocently go from one place to the next.


Well, I'm not saying that the I love you as a friend part would be kept a secret. I love my friends (male or female) the close one atleast, my wife knows that, not something to keep a secret.


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

gbrad said:


> If the EA never leads to anything physical, then it is nothing more than a close friend.



I disagree. A close friend is not someone that you discuss your hopes, dreams, wishes, desires with. You don't talk about issues in your marriage with a close friend. You don't say "I love you, I wish I could be with you for the rest of my life" to a close friend. 

A WS does not betray the marriage for a close friend.

IMO an EA is almost always moving in the direction of a PA. The cheaters just haven't broken that last flimsy boundary before adding the sexual element.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Frequently on these message boards two types of affairs are discussed - emotional affairs and physical affairs. Many seem to be a combination of the two but often an affair is one or the other. In your opinion is one type of affair easier to get over then another? EA v. PA which is easier to move past?


Me & my husband both view a Physical Affair worse... (I just asked him again standing here)...but let me explain why....it's because of HOW we've always viewed ... it's foundation for us is born out of *LOVE* itself...neither of us can separate this....

Me personally....I've always viewed it as near "SACRED" with one man only.. so if I go beyond that... I have betrayed in the deepest way possible, ripping my husbands heart out...it's something we could never get back... irrevocable...

The other is a stirring heated C0*ktail of hormones affecting our Emotions...a Dopamine RUSH heading to a very dangerous place indeed... infatuation on overload.....yet still never took it's full released passion on each other touching the physical ....It was ONLY imagined. 

I realize this is not the general consensus on this forum... and that's fine...

According to His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage : Books... Author William Harley has a similar opinion...

Page 18 says...


> *What is an Affair?*
> 
> Usually as affair consists of 2 people who become involved in an extramarital relationship that combines sexual lovemaking with feelings of deep love. However it is possible to have an affair that involves lovemaking only or only the feeling of love toward someone outside of marriage.
> 
> ...


But true....for those who CAN separate Love from Sex...a One night stand is a much smaller thing in comparison to a heated EA that has been going on for months - secretly. Some men can stick it in and not even remember the woman's name... so what is [email protected]#$


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## whatUknow (Aug 17, 2013)

These days you hardly see one without the other (IMO)

Men usually say physical is worse
Females say emotional is worse


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Want2babettrme said:


> I disagree. A close friend is not someone that you discuss your hopes, dreams, wishes, desires with. You don't talk about issues in your marriage with a close friend. You don't say "I love you, I wish I could be with you for the rest of my life" to a close friend.


The first sentence is a list of things that I say you should be able to discuss with any close friend (male or female). Why wouldn't you discuss your hopes, dreams, wishes, and desires with friends? Not talking about marital issues with friends also I don't understand. What is the purpose in having friends if you can't go to them for help and advice?
That last line you wrote I agree with. To me, saying that you love a friend is very different than saying i love you and want to spent the rest of my life with you. You can love friends and it not have any romantic aspects to it.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: EA v. PA - which is worse?*



gbrad said:


> The first sentence is a list of things that I say you should be able to discuss with any close friend (male or female). Why wouldn't you discuss your hopes, dreams, wishes, and desires with friends? Not talking about marital issues with friends also I don't understand. What is the purpose in having friends if you can't go to them for help and advice?
> That last line you wrote I agree with. To me, saying that you love a friend is very different than saying i love you and want to spent the rest of my life with you. You can love friends and it not have any romantic aspects to it.


Yes, this is what I was saying. I might tell my friend (if I didn't see him often) "love ya!" But I would not say "I love you." It is just different. With my girlfriends and family I usually say "love you" without the "I" in front. Something about that "I" that makes it so much more singular to a specific individual to me, I suppose.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<The problem continues to be what some people see as a close friend and what others deem to have crossed the line to being an EA.>>

"Some people" don't matter, what matters is what your spouse thinks.
If you are hiding it from your spouse, you have already crossed the line. 
If you know your spouse would not approve, and you go ahead anyway, you have crossed the line. 

If your spouse TELLS you what you and/or the other person is doing is crossing the line, you need to stop or risk losing the marriage.

It may be up to the spouse to tell you where the line is, but then, you'd better listen.

It's not that complicated. My WH knew what he was doing was crossing the line, even in his first EA, even though he said he thought it wasn't really cheating, he knew it was. Why? Because of the great lengths he went to hide it. If he didn't think it was cheating or if he thought I would be fine with it, it wouldn't have been a secret. 
But, when you are telling another person of the opposite sex that you are in love with them, you know you are cheating, and you hide it. That is an affair.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I think I can agree with that Pam.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I have always reflected more on the PA - mind movies etc. This is the most common visitor of the two and thankfully I can deal with it much better now, I'm stronger after 6 months.

However in the last few months, the EA has taken precedence. A few days back I re-read the e-mails between them (the ones I was able to snaffle up before deletion) and the telling thing is the emotional bond dotted throughout their communication.

I also have a clear memory of the texts (some of it sexting) I discovered and read numerous times before they were dumped by my WS. Something as simple as my WS asking the POSOM about his son - she's asking him how is such and such doing! It's like a family connection, a relationship connection if you get me drift.

Besides the sex communication, mostly from the POSOM (surprise surprise) it is the words that tell the story of a deep emotional connection that stick with me. That is the bit that tells me that my WS was having a relationship withing a relationship - she had started another relationship people! That's what the long termers do - I'm talking at least 12 months here for the EA / PA.

I was not on her radar well before the EA / PA, as others have observed - she had long ago checked out. So had I, but i didn't cheat. That part of you which you give to someone - your soul perhaps, that emotional commitment, is not an uneasy thing to unlock for many of us but simple for players who know what to say to unhappy women.

The idea that your supposed life partner is lusting after a particular individual, that their thoughts are consumed by that person through so many things you as a family are doing. In that year or more we did much as a family let alone all the day to day and in all that time she was emotionally entwined with another. (i will never refer to him as a man).

Still will not admit to the intensity between them - would rather have me believe that it was some type of casual, come chase me, rarely acted on heavy flirting, occasional F**kbuddy arrangement. All underpinned by two people with eyes only for each other - excluding the fact that in reality and unsurprisingly the POSOM had eyes for more than his wife and my WS.

And that's my summation because she refuses to put words to it.

So I would say the EA is worse


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

They do try to minimize it, to keep the BS from getting too upset, or maybe to protect themselves from admitting how bad it really was. They didn't think they would ever be THAT person, a cheater.

Mine has stopped doing that so much, but I still think HE thinks it was much more casual than I think it was. He still says it was a fantasy, a game, and calls the sexting "Playing" as in "We didn't start playing right away, it was a friendship. And, "After her H husband found out (about the sexting) we stopped playing after that" 

I told him to stop calling it that, it's insulting to me for him to minimize that to protect his ego, or me. it makes it sound like I was more upset than I should have been as they were only "playing." So, whenever I had questions about it I called it sexting, or virtual sex, which it was.


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## huebnem (May 8, 2013)

Although I voted for both I think that an EA has more potential to destroy.

They both suck, but will all the feelings you get I think broken trust is a big one. How do you know it was only an EA? And now that it happened once, even if for only a week, how do you know it won't happen again.

Even now with the divorce coming my STBXW swears up and down that it is only affair if sex is involved. She says emotional relationships are not affairs. She knows I caught her lying and she still hides things.

I guess there are too many factors involved in individual situations to say which is worse.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

PamJ said:


> They do try to minimize it, to keep the BS from getting too upset, or maybe to protect themselves from admitting how bad it really was. They didn't think they would ever be THAT person, a cheater.
> 
> Mine has stopped doing that so much, but I still think HE thinks it was much more casual than I think it was. He still says it was a fantasy, a game, and calls the sexting "Playing" as in "We didn't start playing right away, it was a friendship. And, "After her H husband found out (about the sexting) we stopped playing after that"
> 
> I told him to stop calling it that, it's insulting to me for him to minimize that to protect his ego, or me. it makes it sound like I was more upset than I should have been as they were only "playing." So, whenever I had questions about it I called it sexting, or virtual sex, which it was.


Very much my experience as well PamJ. We used to regularly (in a land far far away) use the term "playing" when we were intimate - "I love it when you play with me" etc. 

I noticed in their communications the regular use of this term eg: "I love it when we play at lunch". The term is now dead to me; a trigger. Much like having to drive nearby their old stomping grounds as I did this afternoon on the way to a family get together - makes me sick.

All of it downplayed. Mongrels!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Anything you need to do with or discuss with a person, particularly of the opposite sex and keep that a secret from your SO is akin to cheating.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Early in the piece my WS told this POSOM - "You do know how much I love you. Don't you!!"

This was before it became a PA, as far as I know. My WS described this communication as a joke, a bit of a laugh soon after the contact began flowing back and forth. "You know how you muck around on e-mail. It was a joke, not serious" she said.

My my how those jokes grow a set of legs.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Each sitch is different.
But my thinking is the EA is worse, cuz I can phuck like the best of them, but when it comes to emotions, especially the " new love" emotion...one can't compete.

So as big as my ego is the physical aspect isn't nearly as threatening as the emotional aspects are... when it comes to Mrs. the-guy screwing around.

Granted I could of dealt with being bailed on versus cheated on, but since I'm here (which totally sucks) I'll take the 13 yrs with 20 OM against years with the same POSOM.....that could have been her soul mate....my thinking is "then just leave my @ss.

Sure I'm wired different then most but were was her soul mate that could have taken her away from the-guy...no matter how much I tried to get rid of her.

Things are a lot different now then they were so many years ago!

I actually give a damb now.

It's funny how ones out look changes as we get older.

That's my $0.02


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree with most comments on EA being a betrayal of marital vows etc. but a PA indicates a willingness to take things that much further and the betrayal is even more so compounded and confirmed - I believe an EA can be undone (coming out of the fog) but a PA can never be undone and it normally involves a lot more planning and wilfulness to carry out. Therefore a PA is definitely a lot worse than an EA.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<Even now with the divorce coming my STBXW swears up and down that it is only affair if sex is involved. She says emotional relationships are not affairs. She knows I caught her lying and she still hides things.>>

The thing is SHE doesn't get to define it. Why and when WOULD she call it an affair if she wanted to stay with you, she wouldn't.

YOU are the one who gets to call it what it was to you. And, if she is still hiding things....


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<I believe an EA can be undone (coming out of the fog) but a PA can never be undone and it normally involves a lot more planning and wilfulness to carry out. Therefore a PA is definitely a lot worse than an EA.>>

Of course, NONE of it can be undone. Coming out of the fog does not make what was said and done in an EA go away. I know what I saw in the texts, sexts, phone calls, pictures they sent. The feeling of being betrayed and deceived never goes away. Like anything else it fades in time if nothing else happens.

That being said, as my WH never met his OW IRL. I , hopefully, will never know how they compare so I can only take the word of someone who has experienced both, but then again, everyone processes these things differently. Some who have experienced both have said the EA element was worse, so, who knows.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*My STBXW used to use one of her old catch lines on me, even way back during our dating days, and I'll try to paraphrase ~

" ... and that 'talking thing,' which leads to that 'non-talking thing,' is what I call verbal foreplay. When that's great, you can only imagine or know that the other will be, too!"

To reread these very same words that she wrote to one of her OMen in one of her posts, largely placed her thumbprint firmly on what I'd refer to as her EA with him, all while she was running the roads to see him, leaving me to stay at home and run the supervision of operations, and then coming back home and sleeping with me, as if nothing had ever happened!

In an EA, the cheater's heart is largely gone. The graduation up to the PA level is nothing more than the covert consummation of their sordid relationship. The only reason that they continue to have a "not-as-often" sexual relation with their spouse, is so as not to arouse any unneeded suspicion, so that their "cake-eating" can richly continue!

In an EA, the damage to a marriage has already and primarily been done; the only difference being that they just haven't gotten around to getting their sensitive parts wet yet!*


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I think an EA would be worse. Why? Because I'd probably try to reconcile after an EA. A PA would be very easy to make a clean break from.

I didn't come to TAM for infidelity, rather other issues we've long gotten past. One thing I have learned here from CWI is the appropriate response to suspicions. I've seen people do it right and people do it wrong. I don't wish it on anyone, but inevitably some of us that are hear for other than infidelity will be cheated on. When it happens, the response will be epic.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

It's a complex question with many answers. I'll just do it from my one current perspective of my fWW's EA/PA. 

She had told me when we got together that her relationship with this POS was over, although she had told her next bf (the one just before I came into the picture) that he was "unresolved." I had asked her if he was resolved, and got an affirmative answer. I asked because I knew she was pretty hung up on the guy for a while. 

Had I known then what I know now, we would not be together. That's because the tone and tempo of her emails to him (he was out of country for a while) didn't change one bit when I came on the scene. In fact, if anything, they ramped up as his return to the US for the holidays drew closer. They'd been lovers for 18 months already, and when he made it to town, they went to town, so to speak. 

The EA continued as he had to go back overseas to finish his contract. By the time he returned again, we'd moved 400 miles away (she never told me about it). Their EA continued for nearly a year after that. The PA part happened two weeks after she had accepted my ring. 

So which was worse? The PA wins for me because it brings the most mind movies. But the EA is so close behind, because it went on for so long, there were words of love and lifelong commitment, exchanging songs, reminiscing about their trips together (they had worked at the same place) and so on. It's so painful to remember all those conversations, but had it just been conversations I may have been able to get over it. 

It's like writing out an official document, an EA. But what really makes it "official" is having sex. Like the gold seal of reality.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

a one night stand, or a couple laisons are bad, but I would be open to hearing her story and not ruling out reconcilliation

but a long drawn out affair, where it wasnt just sexual....there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING she or anyone could say or do, I would be filing and getting the best damned lawyer I can find, maybe talking to the 10 best lawyers I can find so she cant use them, and preparing to go to all out war...unforgivable...

people makes mistakes...and I can forgive a sexual laison (might have to have one myself to even it out ) but a long drawn out "im in love" affair is not a mistake...its an "on purpose"


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> a one night stand, or a couple laisons are bad, but I would be open to hearing her story and not ruling out reconcilliation
> 
> but a long drawn out affair, where it wasnt just sexual....there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING she or anyone could say or do, I would be filing and getting the best damned lawyer I can find, maybe talking to the 10 best lawyers I can find so she cant use them, and preparing to go to all out war...unforgivable...
> 
> people makes mistakes...and I can forgive a sexual laison (might have to have one myself to even it out ) but a long drawn out "im in love" affair is not a mistake...its an "on purpose"


You're right, and there are many times when I have thought "I should leave." Like many others, there are reasons I don't, and it's not even kids because D24 is hers, and although I love that girl, too, it's not enough for me to stay. I think the remorse and complete change in her has had something to do with it. It's when I consider I was totally Plan B for the longest time, that's when I once again consider leaving her. It's soooo hard sometimes.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> You're right, and there are many times when I have thought "I should leave." Like many others, there are reasons I don't, and it's not even kids because D24 is hers, and although I love that girl, too, it's not enough for me to stay. I think the remorse and complete change in her has had something to do with it. It's when I consider I was totally Plan B for the longest time, that's when I once again consider leaving her. It's soooo hard sometimes.


I hear ya...its easy to make opinions on "what i would do" but every situation is different...There are SO MANY factors to take into consideration


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

missthelove2013 said:


> a one night stand, or a couple laisons are bad, but I would be open to hearing her story and not ruling out reconcilliation
> 
> but a long drawn out affair, where it wasnt just sexual....there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING she or anyone could say or do, I would be filing and getting the best damned lawyer I can find, maybe talking to the 10 best lawyers I can find so she cant use them, and preparing to go to all out war...unforgivable...
> 
> people makes mistakes...and I can forgive a sexual laison (might have to have one myself to even it out ) but a long drawn out "im in love" affair is not a mistake...its an "on purpose"


All out war for what?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

gbrad said:


> All out war for what?


I was exaggerating to make a point...meant that I would pursue divorce with ONLY my child(ren) and my best interests at heart, that I would DO EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING LEGAL (didnt say moral) at my disposal to ensure I came out ahead, would show no mercy...people can and do have civil divorces, why blow a wad making 2 lawyers a ton of money, and waste away your savings with fighting...but in this case, I would

co-worker of mine caught his wife cheating, she didnt know he knew...he got her on film, on audio...he even followed her around during the divorce, witnessed her leaving a bar and called the cops with her plate #, claimed she was weaving and dangerous...she got a DUI...he was VERY sneaky and he ended up getting full custody, she got visitation with supervision...he did nothing illegal but I wouldnt call what he did ethical...he did alot of other stuff that i wont mention and really made her look bad...lets just say she should have changed her facebook password


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

missthelove2013 said:


> I was exaggerating to make a point...meant that I would pursue divorce with ONLY my child(ren) and my best interests at heart, that I would DO EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING LEGAL (didnt say moral) at my disposal to ensure I came out ahead, would show no mercy...people can and do have civil divorces, why blow a wad making 2 lawyers a ton of money, and waste away your savings with fighting...but in this case, I would
> 
> co-worker of mine caught his wife cheating, she didnt know he knew...he got her on film, on audio...he even followed her around during the divorce, witnessed her leaving a bar and called the cops with her plate #, claimed she was weaving and dangerous...she got a DUI...he was VERY sneaky and he ended up getting full custody, she got visitation with supervision...he did nothing illegal but I wouldnt call what he did ethical...he did alot of other stuff that i wont mention and really made her look bad...lets just say she should have changed her facebook password


I guess I look at it in a situation where if both parents are good parents to their children, they each deserve an equal right at raising the kids regardless of why the marriage failed/ended. And in almost all situations both people deserve to have their 50/50 share of the marriage assets. Neither person should get screwed over financially just because the marriage is ending.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I would have rather my wife talk about getting fvcked instead actually getting fvcked.. It sort of like talking about getting shot compared to actually getting shot.. Getting shot hurts much more..


I've been on both ends of the spectrum with this.. The EA hurts much worse than the PA and on top of this I think for woman having the EA and then a PA sort of seals the deal.


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