# Marriage = Settling?



## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?

Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?

Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?
> 
> Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?
> 
> Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


NO it's not

You feel this because of your situation.

Don't make the mistake unhealthy others do of coloring all relationships with your present pain.

I am married. I didn't settle. Neither did he. I have fun and am madly in love.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I wonder at the assumption that the situation one finds themselves in is what "most" people do. Perhaps YOU could not be with your ideal partner. But I don't see any reason to assume that is the case for "most".

Marriage has as many meanings as people who enter into it. The bummer is when it is different between the two people who enter into it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes it is settling, if you think you could do better but don't hold out for that. But is it settling if you marry the best person you can find and are capable of attracting, given your own desirability? Relationships change over time, as do the people in them - sometimes (usually?!) for the worse. Does that mean the original decision was flawed? No, of course not! However, if things change for the worse, and you are not okay with that, *then* it's only settling if you stay. If you move on at that point, then the original decision was good - and lasts for as long as it remains good. And if everything remains good, it's not settling if you are married and stay that way.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

The ideal partner doesn't exist, so we all settle. 

There are no flawless relationships. As imperfect people, we each go out into the world and find other imperfect people.

Meeting a new romantic interest is a high. It's a rush. But there's no depth or meaning to it.

For me it's not fun. It's stressful and exhausting. 

And sooner or later, when we get to know one another, our imperfections come out. And it seems like people today have very little tolerance for that.

I've chosen not to actively date anymore because the immaturity is rampant, and the expectations are ridiculous.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't think anyone should marry if doing so feels like settling. Of course it depends on what "settle" means. Waiting for someone who is perfect in every way is silly. I would view "settling" as feeling that there are better people out there, but you are giving up, as opposed to thinking your partner is wonderful, just not perfect.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Marriage isn't an accomplishment, it's a relationship. It's not about you, or what it does for you. It's about us. If you think of it like a job or a degree you are not doing it right. 

It's OK to have requirements and you should hold your spouse to them, but they should be realistic requirements, like this person treats me with respect.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with you, but in dating this is exactly what's happening. It's like a gambling addiction, where next time I'll win. 

So people (both men and women) just go from person to person with the hope that there's this magical formula that's going to kick in.

I don't like you because of xyz. Then the next. And the next. People have become so nitpicky.

There was a thread recently where posters were listing what they wouldn't tolerate in a relationship, and I was thinking to myself, wow, I hope all of you are content alone.



uhtred said:


> I don't think anyone should marry if doing so feels like settling. Of course it depends on what "settle" means. *Waiting for someone who is perfect in every way is silly.* I would view "settling" as feeling that there are better people out there, but you are giving up, as opposed to thinking your partner is wonderful, just not perfect.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not. Every situation is different. I doubt that very few people actually marry with the idea that this person is the best I can get so I will settle for him/her. However, I do think that as a marriage evolves, and both spouses continue to change, that some, perhaps many or even most people do settle for whatever that marriage and their spouse becomes. 
Hopefully, one of the things you will do, OP, is to learn from your past and use it to shape your future. Many people who marry young are perhaps settling, or maybe more appropriately jumping the gun, in that they have not taken the time to find out who exactly they are and what exactly they want. As they and their spouse continue to evolve as human beings, they may come to the realization that marriage (at least to this person) is not something they truly desire. They only married because that is what was expected of them.
But divorce and the end of a marriage is NOT a failure. It is merely a turning point. Some people choose to ignore it and move right back into a relationship. They never take the time to learn from their mistakes. But this turning point holds great promise for anyone who recognizes this reality. You now have the chance to live whatever life you wanted to live, but now you have (hopefully) the experience and wisdom to do so with your wants and needs in mind rather than your family's, church's or society's as your guide.
So if anything, many people settle by accepting whatever is expected of them by others rather than what they expect for themselves. Let your past go and focus on your future.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I don't think anyone should marry if doing so feels like settling. Of course it depends on what "settle" means. Waiting for someone who is perfect in every way is silly. I would view "settling" as feeling that there are better people out there, but you are giving up, as opposed to thinking your partner is wonderful, just not perfect.


I would not want to be with someone "perfect". As if there is such a thing. The pressure to be "perfect" would be too much. That said, if I felt like someone "settled" for me, I would be really unhappy.... and then gone.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

In relationships people change, grow older, and have 
life experiences. If you start out with someone who 
you deem to be perfect what happens when they 
change ? Get ride of them for someone new? As for
being settled I had graduated college, had several 
relationships, and was living on my own before I met
my wife. She had done the same thing !! Did we need 
each other to settle ? No !! 

When we met something was just right, still is 30 + years later. 
Is she still the same person now? NO !! Both of us have had two
sons, gone back to college and traveled to different places together.
We now have grand kids together. I believe today to many people
give up or don't truly know what they want. Many people often 
regret that in the end. Life happens to us all good and bad things.
I am glad I have someone to share it with. My wife.

I am not trying to be critical of anyone but what you put into life,and 
relationships you get back. If you give up and move on what happens next 
time ? 

Love and life are very significant emotional events.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

No one is perfect, and if you think the person you're with is, then you're blind, deluded, or lying to yourself and, worse, unfairly putting him or her on a pedestal.

That said, marriage is only settling if you marry for the wrong reasons. I enjoyed dating a lot before I met and married my wife, and more importantly, I was perfectly happy being alone. So when I married my wife, it was because I was confident that she was the best thing to ever happen to me and I looked forward to being with her and only her for the rest of my life. And through all the ups and downs, I still feel that way.

FML, it sounds like you're facing some insecurity demons, which is understandable given what you're going through right now, but it sounds like this has been an issue for you in relationships before now. I hope your counselor is able to help you learn to appreciate your own strengths and weaknesses for what they are and confidently pursue what will make you happy.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Settling is a choice.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Nobody is an ideal partner. The real question is, would your life be significantly better being married to person x or better not being married to them. In my case, my life is vastly better than it would have been being single or being married to anyone else I've met. But neither I or my wife are ideal or perfect partners for each other. We're human. But it is far from having settled.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I think it totally depends on the two people involved, what their values and goals are, and whether or not those things are similar within one another. It also depends on whether or not the communication that happens pre-marriage is open and honest. If one person is honest about what they want in life, and the other smiles, nods and agrees without much thought, that's not going to work out in the end. 

In my case, yes, marriage = settling. Both of us got married for very different and very wrong reasons, and we had issues that we were never able to work through, as communication just wasn't working. I got tired of taking the blame for most things in the marriage, and of having a spouse who was absent almost exclusively. So, all of that = divorce.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I was almost a lifelong bachelor before i rediscovered women in my late 40's, so i know all about single.

i came to a realization just before i recently got married (5.5 years ago) and i think about it now and then.

to help make someone happy; to allow them to love you, and to love them back; to give their life meaning and make their life better is a reason and a purpose for living all by itself.

even you you did nothing else for the betterment of mankind, that is a reason for living. you don't even need a 'meaning of existence' beyond that.

you can do this beyond marriage, but marriage is probably the best way.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I really hope nobody thinks to settle into marriage. That would just kill the married right there and then. 

Marriage is about NOT settling, but working to new goals within the relationship to always improve it. Its like a lifetime project with ever changing Terms of Reference but sort of same aims. You cannot build a house and then think it will always stand if you do not tend to its fabric. It would eventually fall on you. marriage is the same. 

Even the word "LOVE" will have different meanings throughout the marriage.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Marriage was never a goal for me, I honestly didn’t think that I would get married. 

So I certainly didn’t settle for someone just because I wanted to get married. 

I thought my husband was out of my league when I meant him. He later said he thought I was out of his. 

I married him because I couldn’t imagine wanting to build a life with anyone else. Because I love him in a way I couldn’t imagine loving. I am married to him because it’s what we wanted - not what we settled for.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

You will never find the perfect person for you. They exist at the same level as unicorns. Going by this basis, then marrying anyone is in theory settling ...


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## BecauseICan (Jan 21, 2019)

I settled. He settled too. Wasn't a pretty marriage.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

It depends... but on the whole I think the unicorn comments are spot on. Settling is inversely proportional to the desire to stay in the chase/be chased game.

I think more women settle especially if they are “marrying up” than men because security is more important long term. Sure he snores and zones out to Monday Night Football that you can live with. Being chased by creditors or the roller coaster of someone with addiction is hardly something one would settle for. Some people are tired of dating and just want to done with that chapter with the bad boy/girl. While chasing bad boys is appealing it’s like junk food for a woman. Tastes good but not sustaining. Women grow up sooner and want something sustainable. So enter Mr Family Material.

For men they will settle as well provided it is made up in other ways. Men are more superficial but will settle for a less physically attractive mate if they are low maintenance and have a higher/compatible sex drive. But some guys will also settle for a spendaholic if she’s good in bed and has a great body.

But the last group are those that want someone that they can trust, ggrow better with and snuggle in Pjs on the couch every night without having to be someone they’re not. That’s not settling but finding a partner with similar desires. No marriage is perfect.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Aasrghdub....I’ve thought about the bad boy thing vs Mr Family Material and it’s my experience that Mr Family is disappointing but the sensible option in the long term. Food is a great analogy....as someone said bad boys are junk food and Mr Family is broccoli or apples. You know you need your fruit and veggies but those bad boys are like chocolate or ice cream. You eat your broccoli but you wish ice cream was healthier for you lol

I actually read an article recently that said research has found that a significant number of married women fantasize about past lovers while having sex with their husbands because that’s the only thing that can make them climax lol

I wanted to share the article on here but I didn’t want to get in trouble for spam or something. Not sure of the rules regarding that.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I actually read an article recently that said research has found that a significant number of married women fantasize about past lovers while having sex with their husbands because that’s the only thing that can make them climax lol


The frustrating thing is, I didn't do this. I didn't fantasize about having sex with other people, and I didn't want to have sex with other people.

I wanted _my marriage_ to be the best that it could be.

Unfortunately, both people have to be willing to make the effort. 

And just as an aside, although we talk/read/write about communication all the time, I find that very, very few people in my life are willing to communicate in an honest way - in a way that solves problems.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Aasrghdub....I’ve thought about the bad boy thing vs Mr Family Material and it’s my experience that Mr Family is disappointing but the sensible option in the long term. Food is a great analogy....as someone said bad boys are junk food and Mr Family is broccoli or apples. You know you need your fruit and veggies but those bad boys are like chocolate or ice cream. You eat your broccoli but you wish ice cream was healthier for you lol
> 
> I actually read an article recently that said research has found that a significant number of married women fantasize about past lovers while having sex with their husbands because that’s the only thing that can make them climax lol
> 
> I wanted to share the article on here but I didn’t want to get in trouble for spam or something. Not sure of the rules regarding that.


I think when one is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The bad boy/ good boy dichotomy feels right for people who get dumped by their jerkoff wives. Many women actually have a capacity and genuine interest in loving their husbands.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Perhaps marriage IS settling! Settling down, that is. (As in giving up the wild, free days, and committing to building something significant with another person.)


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I actually read an article recently that said research has found that a significant number of married women fantasize about past lovers while having sex with their husbands because that’s the only thing that can make them climax lol


I would question such a claim, but at a minimum, if there is any truth to it, that is truly disturbing...


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

I can’t find the article again and I don’t remember the author’s name....I want to say Rebecca something. But I do know it was from The Telegraph in the UK


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

I tried looking for it, google “women fantasize about past lovers”....wow! Lots of good things come up about women having better sex with their exes as compared to their husbands. Just google it and see for yourself...


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Mr boring family guy vs bad boy, that is called 
becoming comfortable in my viewpoint. Comfortable 
can be boring. Next time you go out look at couples
and ask yourself if they act like they are married and in 
love. Many don't even hold hands, go out together anymore
or anything. Kids, bills , house payment, and life sets in. 
Sometimes that flame burns low or goes out. They forget about
what started their lives together. 

They were together yesterday, today, and
will be next week. You are married not dead 
you have to remember to have fun together.
Flirt, joke, and have fun together. You can be
the bad buy, Mr excitement and family guy together.
You don't have to go from a bright red sports car to
a dull grey minivan type person. Be both!! I flirt and 
joke with my wife in public even after 30 + years. 
Sometimes people stare, I don't care. It is our life.

I mean no disrespect but as far as research goes, I 
can find people who would say the opposite thing.
Everybody is different and unique in my view.

Just remember your wife, husband, mother or father of
your children is still a human being. They need to feel loved
wanted, desired and loved. If not they may seek it elsewhere.
Don't get comfortable and boring.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Reality can never live up to fantasy, and no reasonable person should expect it to. 

Usually when people are fantasizing about others, it is a "fantasy", which may be quite different from the reality of the other person. 




FMLuder1013 said:


> I tried looking for it, google “women fantasize about past lovers”....wow! Lots of good things come up about women having better sex with their exes as compared to their husbands. Just google it and see for yourself...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I tried looking for it, google “women fantasize about past lovers”....wow! Lots of good things come up about women having better sex with their exes as compared to their husbands. Just google it and see for yourself...


Looked to be based on a study from illictencounters covering 1,000 people (A site that encourages affairs I believe). Based solely on that study, both men and women fantasize about exes 48% and 60%. The study goes on to state that 32% of the women would meet a past lover if approached on Facebook or other. I think that last statement alone should give an indication of the type of people answering this survey...

Not saying that men and women don't fantasize about sex with ex's, but seems like a stretch based on a survey from a somewhat questionable site to imply that a significant amount of women do so in order to orgasm...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I tried looking for it, google “women fantasize about past lovers”....wow! Lots of good things come up about women having better sex with their exes as compared to their husbands. Just google it and see for yourself...


Although this sort of sounds like Red Pill hyperbole, IRL, it must happen. How often is debatable.

First, it's entirely possible that people would marry partners that are not the partner who they had the best sex with but IS the person they most want to be married to. If it were true that the sex with my ex-wife was better than the sex I have with my current wife, I'd still much rather be married to my current wife. My ex was crazy.

Second, people DO fantasize while having sex and it seems reasonable to assume that some of that fantasizing would include the best sex experience(s) they ever had.

While this would happen with both men and women, it seems more likely to happen with women. 

I think men put a higher premium on sexual attraction when choosing partners (not that this makes then "better" by any means, it probably indicates that they are stupider). Also (and this is where I'll get the most pushback), I believe men in general find a larger percentage of women sexually desirable than the percentage of men who women find sexually desirable. So, it follows that women would more likely to marry someone other than the person who they had the best sex with.

Also, it's more problematic when this is done by women because men seem to be much more obsessed with the "I need to be the best lover she ever had" than women are (just based off what I've seen on TAM).

So, marry the person you most want to marry. But, if it's not the person you had the best sex of your life with, realize that you'll still need to have sex with them and keep the fact that they're not the person you've had the best sex with, keep it to yourself.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Reality can never live up to fantasy, and no reasonable person should expect it to.
> 
> Usually when people are fantasizing about others, it is a "fantasy", which may be quite different from the reality of the other person.


While that may be true most times, it is only because most people have unrealistic fantasies. If one fantasizes about having sex with Marilyn Monroe on Mars, you would be correct, because it is unrealistic. If one fantasizes about having a healthy happy life with a souse who loves them and wants to be with them, than you would be incorrect, because that is realistic. Some people never bother to consider if their fantasy is actually achievable or not.
The key is to have realistic fantasies and not some pie in the sky idealistic, never-going-to-happen ones. If you do, then anything you can imagine, you can have. As long as you go after it.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> I think when one is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The bad boy/ good boy dichotomy feels right for people who get dumped by their jerkoff wives. Many women actually have a capacity and genuine interest in loving their husbands.


There's also a difference between good guys and doormats. Many of the latter make sweeping generalizations about how women feel about the former. One can be a good guy and still have confidence, stand up for oneself in the relationship, and keep things exciting.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Satisfied Mind said:


> There's also a difference between good guys and doormats. Many of the latter make sweeping generalizations about how women feel about the former.


There are many examples of this, it seems. If I had to guess, it is ego protection.



> One can be a good guy and still have confidence, stand up for oneself in the relationship, and keep things exciting.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> There are many examples of this, it seems. If I had to guess, it is ego protection.


In my teens, I blamed my lack of success with women on being a "good guy," but I quickly figured out that wasn't my problem and things changed dramatically. The principle doesn't change just because you put a ring on it. I guess it's easier for some to be passive and choose the path of least resistance and then blame it on women wanting a bad boy or fantasy when she loses interest.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Satisfied Mind said:


> In my teens, I blamed my lack of success with women on being a "good guy," but I quickly figured out that wasn't my problem and things changed dramatically. The principle doesn't change just because you put a ring on it. I guess it's easier for some to be passive and choose the path of least resistance and then blame it on women wanting a bad boy or fantasy when she loses interest.


I strongly suspect that it is not so much "easier" as it is a self defense mechanism so as to not have to accept some kind of lack of attractiveness on ones own part.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> I strongly suspect that it is not so much "easier" as it is a self defense mechanism so as to not have to accept some kind of lack of attractiveness on ones own part.


In my own circles, I've witnessed both laziness (not willing to put in the work to stay attractive or continue dating your spouse or rolling over on a s*** test) and the insecurity you're talking about. And they often seem to go hand in hand.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Satisfied Mind said:


> In my teens, I blamed my lack of success with women on being a "good guy," but I quickly figured out that wasn't my problem and things changed dramatically. The principle doesn't change just because you put a ring on it. I guess it's easier for some to be passive and choose the path of least resistance and then blame it on women wanting a bad boy or fantasy when she loses interest.


And.... I just read the groupie thread.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Buddy, I have always agreed with what you said about how men are attracted to a greater number of women as compared to the very small number of men considered to be attractive to women. 

I’m only half remembering what about to say so forgive me for being a little off on this but I believe it’s referred to as the 100/1 theory. Take 100 men and 100 women and each man will be attracted to all the women but all the women will only be attracted to one man, hence the 100/1 theory’s name.

Now obviously that’s exaggerated but the idea is that most women are attractive to men but most men are unattractive to women


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Buddy, I have always agreed with what you said about how men are attracted to a greater number of women as compared to the very small number of men considered to be attractive to women.
> 
> I’m only half remembering what about to say so forgive me for being a little off on this but I believe it’s referred to as the 100/1 theory. Take 100 men and 100 women and each man will be attracted to all the women but all the women will only be attracted to one man, hence the 100/1 theory’s name.
> 
> Now obviously that’s exaggerated but the idea is that most women are attractive to men but most men are unattractive to women


So if that is the case, why not just make yourself attractive to women if you are a man. Or do women only like bad boys, or is it buff chiseled studs, or it only a-holes. I forget. 
The reality is that as someone suggested either here or on a different thread. EVERYONE can up their attractiveness. So even if you are a complete shlub, if you take a bath and put on some deodorant, shave and put on some clean clothes you will make your self more attractive. On the other hand, sitting around and feeling sorry for yourself, crying in your beer and saying is woe is me, only serves to make you less attractive.
The percentages are no where near 99% one way or the other. The reality is the some women will be attracted to some men, and some men will attracted to some women. So go out and find your "some". And if you don't like the "some" that you have to choose from, then make yourself more attractive to some other "some" that you are attracted to.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Buddy, I have always agreed with what you said about how men are attracted to a greater number of women as compared to the very small number of men considered to be attractive to women.
> 
> I’m only half remembering what about to say so forgive me for being a little off on this but I believe it’s referred to as the 100/1 theory. Take 100 men and 100 women and each man will be attracted to all the women but all the women will only be attracted to one man, hence the 100/1 theory’s name.
> 
> Now obviously that’s exaggerated but the idea is that most women are attractive to men but most men are unattractive to women


This is typically a belief held by men who are not attractive to women. It would hold more truth if you said would have sex with instead of attracted. Men are more likely to have sex with women they aren't necessarily attracted to when they are horny and alone, less likely a woman would do the same.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> I think when one is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


World War Z!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Aasrghdub....I’ve thought about the bad boy thing vs Mr Family Material and it’s my experience that Mr Family is disappointing but the sensible option in the long term. Food is a great analogy....as someone said bad boys are junk food and Mr Family is broccoli or apples. You know you need your fruit and veggies but those bad boys are like chocolate or ice cream. You eat your broccoli but you wish ice cream was healthier for you lol.


Why can't Mr Family be stake and potatoes to Bad Boys KFC. 

The problem with people who think like you is that you think sexual compatibility is static. Sex is like anything else if you work at it you can get better at it. You just need the right partner, and you need to have a good starting point. 

If your wife is not attracted to you and just married you for security then there is not much you can do. But assuming there is something to work with, work with it. Also do your best to be the best you can be. But look if you married an ******* you just married an *******. Seems like this was your major trouble. 

Finally what is this mythical best sex that articles are written about. First of all ever look at the people writing the articles? Why are we supposed to believe that there sex is so great and better then everyone else? Some 20 year old writing for Gawker is the go to about having great sex? Some narcissist who writes a blog about themselves? I am supposed to believe they are good in bed? I don't think so. I DO believe they are writing to get clicks though. 

Besides that what does best sex mean? Does it mean the time where when you were finished you felt the best physically? Was it the closest you ever felt to a person when doing it, the most turned on you were, the most turned on your partner was? Does it mean long term repeatable good sex or the one time were you were all the stars aligned? Maybe one of those things I just wrote means good sex to me but might not to you. I mean if it's just performance go get a professional, they probably are going to be pretty good at it. If it's just how hot the person is you are having sex with then that is going to be pretty short lived. We all know that after a while that goes away. The whole idea is stupid and immature to begin with. (Not unlike most of the popular thinking now a days.)

I think this whole kind of thinking is ridiculously simplistic and I have a hard time believing people who have this kind of Disney type thinking about sex actually have good sex. Any kind of interaction that takes two people is going to have times when it's good and times when it's average to bad. Sex is like everything else in your relationship you get out of it what you put into it. Assuming both are willing. But if your partner is not willing the you are probably not going to have great sex, that is not your fault. If you are unhappy find another partner. 

By the way everyone of your posts and all your problems can be summed up in on sentence. 

You married an *******. (Then again that is probably 50% of the posts on this site and 95% of the infidelity posts.) You should just assume such and move on with your life.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is typically a belief held by men who are not attractive to women. It would hold more truth if you said would have sex with instead of attracted. Men are more likely to have sex with women they aren't necessarily attracted to when they are horny and alone, less likely a woman would do the same.


This is also a belief that Christian Rudder notes in Dataclysm based on OK Cupid data. 

I think it was women find 85% of men to be below average in attractiveness.

Even the people who refute the study

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePill...ewing_the_ok_cupid_study_what_it_really_says/

acknowledge it. They just argue that women message more guys whose attractiveness they find to be below average than men so, in the end, it doesn't matter.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Perhaps marriage IS settling! Settling down, that is. (As in giving up the wild, free days, and committing to building something significant with another person.)


I see it as stepping up, far better than those wild free days.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

When I was young I was attracted to nearly all females. That was then. Anyway, my niece married a bad boy. He was exciting, they always had something to do, she rode on his motorcycle, and generally had a high old time. But when It came to actual work and doing daily obligations, he came up way short. Now she can't stand the thought of him. She changed her name back to her maiden after he was committed to the joint in another state. And his daughter will have no contact with him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?
> 
> Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?
> 
> Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


I don't think that most people settle or that most people struggle in marriage or with their sex life. Many do, but loads don't. I know so many good strong happy marriages. Being on a forum that talks about marriage issues gives a skewed picture. 
I would never settle, I would rather be alone than that. I knew in less than a week that my husband was the man I wanted to marry. If you don't feel sure that the person is the only one you want to be with for the rest of your life, then don't get married.

Also I don't give my past partners a thought. Nor would I ever want to meet them. Thinking about an ex when you have sex is to me like a form of unfaithfulness.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> This is also a belief that Christian Rudder notes in Dataclysm based on OK Cupid data.
> 
> I think it was women find 85% of men to be below average in attractiveness.
> 
> ...


I do agree that women find men generally less attractive than men find women or to say it another way women geneerally have higher standards. I also believe men are less attractive than women so that might be something. There are more women who would rate seven and up than men. If I'm out with my wife and I say OK point out every person you think is an attractive person she will see more attractive women than men because there are more attractive women than men. And so would most men and women. Women are the fairer sex plain and simple. 

They guys who have a really hard time attracting women usually have more than just physical attractiveness working against them though. And I know a few single guys like this. They think I have a good job, a nice car, a nice house and I can't get a girl to go on a date with me. They simply don't get how to talk to women, they don't put work into their appearance to present themselves in the most attractive way possible and there is very little about them and their lives that are interesting. One guy who bought my old house from me, will bring up his business and his Lamborghini in the first 2 minutes talking to any woman. He thinks all women want the money so the fact he's 5'-6", 230lbs with an awful comb over shouldn't be a factor. He has nothing interesting about him beyond very superficial things and he does nothing to make himself more interesting. He doesn't try to find things he has in common with a woman he's interested in.

So yah women are more attractive than men on average. But plenty of us still have no problem attracting women.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?
> 
> Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?
> 
> Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


My fun wasn't all that fun.

I have spoken bluntly about my life and it has been taken as bragging when I'm just trying to state some facts and smile or laugh at my past instead of cry about it.

I am what many men think of as successful with women.

Before I met Mrs. C, I was a bad boy with a death wish and looks women liked.

I was very damaged and went through a lot of women.

They offered themselves on platters in ways you might see in a comedy routine but wouldn't even normally be seen in any movie.

My life was empty and painful as well as being mostly not fun or fulfilling.

I hated my life and was often almost physically ill in the cold morning light.

Mrs. Conan and a tap from God on my shoulder changed my life.

I have never laughed or loved more than my years with the most ridiculously lovable little woman I have ever known.

We have two sons I am proud of and two grandchildren.

She is still the one who makes me laugh and smile the most.

Not trying to have TMI but she still blows my head off, sometimes fairly literally, in the sack as well.

It has taken work, patience, forgiveness, faith, repentance and endurance to achieve but this year will mark 28 since our first date and 24 married.

I was a dangerous young man bent on getting myself killed and taking quite a few along for the ride.

She was a twice divorced single mother who had been cheated on as well as cheating herself in both her marriages and 11 years my senior.

You are still a young man for the most part. You just need a fresh perspective and hope.

There is still nobility and good in the world. Sometimes you will find it in surprising places.

Just ask this ex bad boy and an ex adultress with two failed marriages.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I see it as stepping up, far better than those wild free days.


That's a good way to view it. When it's a good marriage, it is indeed better than those wild, free days.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?
> 
> Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?
> 
> Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


It's true for me.. when I was younger.. I was more interested in finding a soulmate- someone I could *share* everything with, that we "GOT" each other ...wanted the same things ... which included marriage/ a family....growing old together through thick & thin, living on a prayer, however one wants to look at it.. we knew we had each other & we'd get by making it ... Love is a motivator...

I knew "having fun/ excitement" in itself would be fleeting.. and in living this way.. I could be passing up a good man.. maybe I am rather boring anyway (never a drinker, very responsible, careful with $$, more of a homebody).... so the "good guy" was more my style anyway.. I knew this early on. 

I do feel I married a near ideal man for me... I know he feels the same.....I wouldn't even say either of us changed all that much.. we just grew with each other.... we climbed the mountain together hand in hand, achieved the larger family we talked about, we made a "home" we hope to live out the rest of our years..

Sure we fight sometimes, but honestly it's rare.. and even when we do get a little out of hand.. it's more so a frisky Fight that leads to laughing & joking... There are things I would TWEAK about him, sure ... but I pretty much know (just by observing alone)...if I was with anyone else... I would have far more complaints...I could see myself loosing a lot of patience ... with just some of the things my GF's have shared about their husbands alone... 

I can't say I have settled...I still love being married - after being with the same man for 37 yrs.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

What exactly defines settling? I got married young (both my W and I were 23). It was very simple, I found the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. There was no settling, I wasn't hedging my bets. Should I have done something else? Should I have postponed getting married, waiting to find someone "better"?

I do believe that there are people who do settle when they marry for a variety of reasons (financially, fear of being alone, etc...), but I do believe that there are plenty of people who don't feel in the least bit that they "settled" in order to be with their current spouse.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> When I was young I was attracted to nearly all females. That was then. Anyway, my niece married a bad boy. He was exciting, they always had something to do, she rode on his motorcycle, and generally had a high old time. But when It came to actual work and doing daily obligations, he came up way short. Now she can't stand the thought of him. She changed her name back to her maiden after he was committed to the joint in another state. And his daughter will have no contact with him.


Here is the thing that most men don't understand. Your niece is the female equivalent to the bad boy. You don't marry someone like that. If her natural penchant is to go after the bad boys it's too much of a risk that she will one day go off the rails, at least in my mind. Besides that really only shows that she is marring you because you are safe.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I see marriage as far more fun that being single. Maybe I am just one of those people who thrive in marriage but don't care for being single. I don't see dating different men, drinking and partying as fun anyway. Its not that I mind being on my own, I am an introvert so am happy being alone much of the time, but I am very family oriented. 

As for bad boys, just don't see the attraction AT ALL. I see men with integrity, good values, honesty, and decency as attractive. Never liked men who were the opposite of those things.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I do agree that women find men generally less attractive than men find women or to say it another way women geneerally have higher standards. I also believe men are less attractive than women so that might be something. There are more women who would rate seven and up than men. If I'm out with my wife and I say OK point out every person you think is an attractive person she will see more attractive women than men because there are more attractive women than men. And so would most men and women. Women are the fairer sex plain and simple.
> 
> They guys who have a really hard time attracting women usually have more than just physical attractiveness working against them though. And I know a few single guys like this. They think I have a good job, a nice car, a nice house and I can't get a girl to go on a date with me. They simply don't get how to talk to women, they don't put work into their appearance to present themselves in the most attractive way possible and there is very little about them and their lives that are interesting. One guy who bought my old house from me, will bring up his business and his Lamborghini in the first 2 minutes talking to any woman. He thinks all women want the money so the fact he's 5'-6", 230lbs with an awful comb over shouldn't be a factor. He has nothing interesting about him beyond very superficial things and he does nothing to make himself more interesting. He doesn't try to find things he has in common with a woman he's interested in.
> 
> So yah women are more attractive than men on average. But plenty of us still have no problem attracting women.


I don't want to speak for women but maybe they just don't put as much value in physical attractiveness as us men do. This makes sense from a biological sense as in our species the female's physical beauty is used as a aphrodisiac. Unlike in some other species such as some birds where it is the male which primarily uses visual queues for mating and are brightly colored. I actually think that is good for us (men) because we have more tools in our toolbox to make ourselves attractive.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I do agree that women find men generally less attractive than men find women or to say it another way women geneerally have higher standards. I also believe men are less attractive than women so that might be something. There are more women who would rate seven and up than men. If I'm out with my wife and I say OK point out every person you think is an attractive person she will see more attractive women than men because there are more attractive women than men. And so would most men and women. Women are the fairer sex plain and simple.
> 
> They guys who have a really hard time attracting women usually have more than just physical attractiveness working against them though. And I know a few single guys like this. They think I have a good job, a nice car, a nice house and I can't get a girl to go on a date with me. They simply don't get how to talk to women, they don't put work into their appearance to present themselves in the most attractive way possible and there is very little about them and their lives that are interesting. One guy who bought my old house from me, will bring up his business and his Lamborghini in the first 2 minutes talking to any woman. He thinks all women want the money so the fact he's 5'-6", 230lbs with an awful comb over shouldn't be a factor. He has nothing interesting about him beyond very superficial things and he does nothing to make himself more interesting. He doesn't try to find things he has in common with a woman he's interested in.
> 
> So yah women are more attractive than men on average. But plenty of us still have no problem attracting women.


True. A guy doesn't attract more women by doing things that he thinks (or his mother told him) would attract women. A guy attracts women by doing what women actually find attractive. I don't get the idea that women should somehow be attracted to guys they aren't attracted to. 

It's like a 300 lb woman saying she should have a boyfriend because she's got a great personality.

However, this doesn't change the dynamics of some (many?) women marrying guys to whom they are not very sexually attracted.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I don't want to speak for women but maybe they just don't put as much value in physical attractiveness as us men do. This makes sense from a biological sense as in our species the female's physical beauty is used as a aphrodisiac. Unlike in some other species such as some birds where it is the male which primarily uses visual queues for mating and are brightly colored. I actually think that is good for us (men) because we have more tools in our toolbox to make ourselves attractive.


I understand what you are trying to say here, but disagree that women do not put as much value in physical attractiveness. If you are talking about in a partner, then to a degree I would agree with you. However I do think that many women place a great deal of value in physical attractiveness. They spend ungodly amounts of time and money on make up and clothing, just to enhance their own physical attractiveness. Many of these women expect the same from men. Perhaps not to the same extent, but at least an effort. That is one thing that I think many men fail at - making the effort. So they snap a selfie of themselves after fishing all day or working on their car or motorcycle and post it. Women seem more willing to advertise themselves in the best light, whereas many men don't. I am not saying that a man should go get a pedicure, a waxing or hair styling. just that many men have the expectation that their looks don't matter but expect their partner to look their best. It really is not mystery to me why many women might find more men less attractive when you consider the lack of effort many men make


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> True. A guy doesn't attract more women by doing things that he thinks (or his mother told him) would attract women. A guy attracts women by doing what women actually find attractive. I don't get the idea that women should somehow be attracted to guys they aren't attracted to.
> 
> It's like a 300 lb woman saying she should have a boyfriend because she's got a great personality.
> 
> However, this doesn't change the dynamics of some (many?) women marrying guys to whom they are not very sexually attracted.


I guess i question if women marry men they are not attracted. I think it's more likely men become less attractive to their wives by not keeping themselves in shape, keep their style on point, and stop exhibiting the behaviors that attracted their wives in the first place. 

A lot of men (and women) get married and get lazy and wonder why their wives stop desiring them. How many times have you heard a woman say when we were dating he did xyz and now he hasn't done any of that in years. These guys have all the excuses in the world why they don't but usually it's all BS excuses. And that goes both ways women are guilty of the same thing. 

For long term success meaning keeping a life long happy marriage, keeping the behaviors, attention affection etc. matters as much if not more in the long run. Looks fade for us all eventually we can't control father time but we can control how we treat and seduce our spouses mentally and emotionally.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I guess i question if women marry men they are not attracted. I think it's more likely men become less attractive to their wives by not keeping themselves in shape, keep their style on point, and stop exhibiting the behaviors that attracted their wives in the first place.


I would bet that many women lose attraction because their husbands become complacent and boring. This can include not looking good. But also just not wanting to DO anything. "Date night" is a chore. We see for a lot of families, Mom is taking care of a lot of the details, the home, the food, the kids' stuff. And on top of that, the guy who used to be fun would rather sit on the couch. At least that is what I have seen.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ynot said:


> I understand what you are trying to say here, but disagree that women do not put as much value in physical attractiveness. If you are talking about in a partner, then to a degree I would agree with you. However I do think that many women place a great deal of value in physical attractiveness. They spend ungodly amounts of time and money on make up and clothing, just to enhance their own physical attractiveness. Many of these women expect the same from men. Perhaps not to the same extent, but at least an effort. That is one thing that I think many men fail at - making the effort. So they snap a selfie of themselves after fishing all day or working on their car or motorcycle and post it. Women seem more willing to advertise themselves in the best light, whereas many men don't. I am not saying that a man should go get a pedicure, a waxing or hair styling. just that many men have the expectation that their looks don't matter but expect their partner to look their best. It really is not mystery to me why many women might find more men less attractive when you consider the lack of effort many men make


Again I don't want to speak for women. I will say that until the last half of the 20th century, at least culturally, physical beauty wasn't seen as important for men as it was for women as far as potential value in a mate. For instance historically there is a whole lot more art, poetry, music written about female beauty then there is male beauty. Even in your example it's female beauty where most of the interest is. 

I also think this idea of letting ones self go is a very modern idea. Most people up until the 20th century didn't have the resources to let themselves go or the time to think about it. Beauty seems to become more of a priority with the growth of societal wealth. I also think the growth of social media and the introduction of disposable photography really has increased it's priority. This all started with the ability to reproduce images, movies and television. 

That's not to say men shouldn't care about their appearance. I am a strong advocate for that, this is a failing of many men and women. 

It should be said though with the example of the friend who talks about his car, it's not like there aren't examples of situations where beautiful women marry men for their wealth. A certain president comes to mind. 

Frankly it's a red flag for any Man or Women to give an excessive amount of value to physical appearance, for instance at the expense of other important qualities.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Again I don't want to speak for women. I will say that until the last half of the 20th century, at least culturally, physical beauty wasn't seen as important for men as it was for women as far as potential value in a mate. For instance historically there is a whole lot more art, poetry, music written about female beauty then there is male beauty. Even in your example it's female beauty where most of the interest is.
> 
> I also think this idea of letting ones self go is a very modern idea. Most people up until the 20th century didn't have the resources to let them self go or the time to think about it. That's not to say men shouldn't care about their appearance. I am a strong advocate for that, this is a failing of many men and women.
> 
> ...


Until quite recently, women had no choice in whom they married.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Until quite recently, women had no choice in whom they married.


This is a good point, but depending on your wealth level neither did men in many cases. This is a problem of the rise of romantic love for marriage. Which is a very new development in history.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> This is a good point, but depending on your wealth level neither did men in many cases. This is a problem of the rise of romantic love for marriage. Which is a very new development in history.


Problem? I see it as a difference, not a problem.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

sokillme said:


> This is a good point, but depending on your wealth level neither did men in many cases. This is a problem of the rise of romantic love for marriage. Which is a very new development in history.


I agree. but not only is romantic love a new development, the meaning of the term is evolving as well. Not too long ago when a life time lasted less than 40-50 years. Today that could mean 80-90 years. In many ways humans are out living their emotions.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Problem? I see it as a difference, not a problem.


Maybe problem is the wrong word - challenge.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I don't really agree all marriages are folks who have settled, by no means.

I do know of a few of my friends, some acquaintances, but those marriages soon ended.

For me, no. 
Without a lot of detail, talking to, finding women and women finding me has been mostly easy, to where a biggest challenge in my early marriage was not getting picked up by strange women.

Dear W and I got married young, 34 yrs now, and still going at it.

I had to stop riding motorcycles, no more fast cars (bye to the Mustangs) for a while, no more chemical indulging, but these were my choices after we decided to have kids early.

I'd been in two motorcycle accidents and one bad car wreck by then. Not all my fault though.

I lived through college, cut my hair (pony tail) and got early start in professional career, and after a few years got married (surprised me!) then focused on working in a serious manner to support family. 

The last thing I was looking to do was get married but when I met dear W, well the rest is history. 

PS I've still had off the rail moments but sh$t happens.
But not earth shattering. And dear W has been more forgiving than I likely deserve. 

Now two boys, and two grandsons later, here we are.

No settling &#55357;&#56845;&#55357;&#56845;&#55357;&#56845;


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> 😉
> I focused



Focused? Or lucky as hell?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

This thread just goes to show you that most people expect to receive better compensation than what they are worth.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> Focused? Or lucky as hell?


Actually that tag was a typo on my part. Whoops.

I fixed it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> This thread just goes to show you that most people expect to receive better compensation than what they are worth.


How so?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

How so? Some cat (or chick) feeling they settled for less than what they want when they don't understand what the want is way out of their league. I had some T shirts printed for my sons buddies once that read, "Unless you're Cindy Crawford, don expect me to be Richard Gere". That was many moons ago.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> "Unless you're Cindy Crawford, don expect me to be Richard Gere". That was many moons ago.


If someone will tell me whose names to put on it, I'll print 'em....we'll try for a deal with Daymond John.....


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

One problem is that people marry people who are not exactly what they want in the hope that things will change after marriage. They don’t. There are also a lot of people who have been in a relationship so long that they feel that the next logical step is marriage, despite the relationship not being all it can be. Some have kids hoping that will make it better but it usually makes it worse as more areas of conflict and stress occur.

I was fussy who I married. I left my first fiancé and then a live in girlfriend to marry my wife. We fell in love the first time we saw each other and were engaged 3 weeks later. Now married 46 years. My wife gets pleasure from making me happy. She has held down the home front which enabled me to get ahead in my career which gave us a lifestyle free of money worries. She put up with 13 relocations which involved living in 9 houses and several apartments. 

As far as sex life goes, I made sure we were very compatible when we got married. Many settle for just having sex on a regular basis. I wanted more and got it. Feel free not to believe this: Wife is bisexual, but only will have sex with women if I take part. She is not interested in other men and that has been tested. My wife reaches orgasm in under 3 minutes with me, but not with her longtime BFF. My wife was OK with me having one on one sex with her BFF but she did not want to do the same, except with me. 

We are in our late sixties and living far away from our girlfriend. However we still are kinky and into fetish sex at times to spice up our sex life. It took three relationships to find someone I did not feel that I was settling for. However it resulted in a marriage that I never dreamed was possible. Meanwhile all of our siblings are divorced as all of our old friends. Many of our old friends married their high school sweethearts. They were together so long so they figured marriage and then children were the next logical steps. Divorce ended up being the next logical step because they were used to each other and not really in the kind of love that endures over time.

So while I agree that many settle when they marry, I want to say that it does not have to be that way. You can have your cake and eat it too. Life is too short to settle and yet so many men still marry the first girl who gives them regular sex or whom they impregnate accidentally.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> How so? Some cat (or chick) feeling they settled for less than what they want when they don't understand what the want is way out of their league. I had some T shirts printed for my sons buddies once that read, "Unless you're Cindy Crawford, don expect me to be Richard Gere". That was many moons ago.


Ha!

I like it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

To marry the first person that "gave" you sex I know happens, but unless truly a romance made in heaven, that would be a bad idea.

Not to sound unromantic. 😍😍


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Thread title says it all....what does everyone think?
> 
> Most people struggle with marriage and even more with sex in marriage so this is a natural question. Most people can’t be with their ideal partner so they get married because what else are they going to do?
> 
> Someone on another thread said it best - “some people want to have fun and some people want marriage” lol


If you have struggled in marriage and intimacy, remained loyal and managed to improve things... totally worth it!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile my old days of "wanting to have fun" and messing around just having a good time really felt empty in comparison.


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