# Verbal abuse on tape



## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

I put together this video to document what verbal abuse sounds like and what it feels like to me:

Domestic abuse caught on tape - YouTube

Despite what you hear, he is actually very involved as a father, but he's also very controlling of our kids' opinion about me. I'm afraid of what might happen if there is a custody battle. 

Everyone else thinks he is the most wonderful guy in the world--he never acts like this outside our home. Because of this, for many years I thought I must be to blame, but I've finally decided there is no excuse for treating someone like this. The only problem is I have no good options at this point.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sorry but I didn't listen to it, I don't care to hear things like that it upsets me. To me any type of verbal abuse is uncalled for. If people do not know how to talk to someone in a decent manner, then perhaps they need some counseling to learn how. 

However, if you find this to be unacceptable then you and your kids do not need to be around it. Your kids are learning this how things work. I sure wouldn't want my spirit broken because of someone else not knowing how to talk to people. I'm sure you and your kids spirits have been broken, to me that is abuse in itself.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

What I went through with my ex was 1000x's worse then that. Your tape is in a calm voice. My ex was talking to me in a similar way while holding me hostage in my own apartment. He took my keys and all the phones out of the wall. It went on for hours. I was crying, he took pictures and was laughing at me. 

I found a phone in the baby's room and called his mother, I should of called the POLICE! His mother talked to him and he let me leave, but followed me in his car. On the freeway at 75mph, he got in front of me and slammed his breaks nearly killing my daughter and I. God was with me that day saving my life.

I left the marriage, he stalked me for a year later. He had a woman move in 3 days after I left. My ex was also very unfaithful. I went through a year of hell! This tape is a fabulous example! There is no need to be treated this way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I married a much better man. My husband now puts my needs before his for the last 12-13 years.

The abuse went right to my daughter. The courts would not let stop visitation. He ripped her apart emotionally and is proud. He no longer speaks to her and refuses to let her talk to her siblings. That broke her heart. My daughter had a great role model as a father with my husband. I'm grateful for that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah, I don't think you need to be afraid of the custody battle, should there be one. His lawyer might suggest he not even bother if he knows about this recording. Your H is a calm abuser... Maybe its because you are calm back. If my H were saying things like like that to me I would not sit there and listen calmly. Best wishes to you and your family!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaGuy (Feb 1, 2012)

Cherry said:


> Yeah, I don't think you need to be afraid of the custody battle, should there be one. His lawyer might suggest he not even bother if he knows about this recording. Your H is a calm abuser... Maybe its because you are calm back. If my H were saying things like like that to me I would not sit there and listen calmly. Best wishes to you and your family!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will be ok in a divorce. Courts always rule in the womans favor. How do I know ? I am friends with divorced guys. You should not tolerate that. Good luck


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

^^^ not true. My H had temporary custody with a very good chance of permanent. They didn't believe my claims of verbal, mental or physical abuse. They believed his claims of alcoholism on me. Difference - he had proof  I never got proof of anything. Kudos to the OP for getting proof! I guy like that will manipulate the courts without solid proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Damn.

Why would a man want to be like that?
He's making himself miserable along with his family.

That is a nice bit of evidence of emotional/verbal abuse if you ever need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

OMG he sounds so whiney and condescending.

If Hubs talked to me like this, he'd be out on his ass. omg. NO WAY.

DO NOT STAND FOR THIS.


If this is your husband, his voice is annoying.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Made me sick to my stomach listening to it. How did you tape it? The audio comes through very clearly. This will be very good evidence if you ever need it.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I hope you have grown up in a environment with a loving father figure. That you do not think this is what the average man is like. As a man I can say that I am embarrassed that I share the same gender as this jerk. Sorry you had to suffer under this freak. Hope you find happiness.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I honestly think this video can help other women understand that this is verbal abuse. Is this your husband or are you making an awareness video?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> I put together this video to document what verbal abuse sounds like and what it feels like to me:
> 
> Domestic abuse caught on tape - YouTube
> 
> ...


You say you have no good options right now. Maybe we can help you realize the options you do have.

How old are you? How long have you been married? What level of education do you have right now?

You said that you have family near by, could you go live with your family for a while?

It sounded in the video like he was hitting you. Have you ever called the police when he does this?

Answer those questions and we can start to look for your way out. Your exit plan.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for all of the comments. I'm 38, and I have a college education and a good job. In fact I think that is part of the reason his language is so denigrating toward me--he's threatened by it and wants to knock me down so he can feel superior.

I should say that his language is not like this every day. It seems to go through waves, and worsened by stressful situations in life. He has slapped me on only a few occasions over 13 years; otherwise the abuse has only been verbal. I've never called the police. He's mostly kind to our kids, and does a ton of stuff with them, but very recently he has been lashing out against our oldest son, who is now 12. Still, the kids are very much attached to him. I know they love me too, but it seems like they have less respect for me. He sets himself up as the primary parent. I'm afraid how things might unfold in a custody battle. At least now I'm still seeing my kids every day.

I posted this on a legal advice website, and all they said to me was, "This sounds like typical end-of-marriage stuff." And they made me feel like a jerk for even posting it, even when I told them I went to great lengths to make everything anonymous. This is why I'm nervous everything may backfire on me.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

Please, get him out of your life. He sounds like a scumbag.

You deserve respect and happiness. You're his wife and mother of his kids... he is ungrateful.

You may have to share custody of your kids, but you need to be happy and safe. Your kids will be much happier, too, especially if they are around when he is doing this.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Well you say he is not like this all the time. Once should be enough though. Apparently he is like this enough to get him on tape. I never slapped my wife of 17 years.

The only thing I would worry about is if this recording is legal in your state.

Wish you the best of luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So you can support yourself. Why did you say that you think don't don't have options right now?

Of course you kids do not respect you as much. They see that you allow yourself to be abused. They will often pick the side of the parent who they see to be the strongest one.

Your husband is picking on your 12 year old because he is now becoming a threat to your husband's position as the alpha male in the home. It will get a lot worse

As far as the tape goes.You need to check on the laws in your state for taping a person when they are not aware they are being taped. This could be illegal depending on the state. If it's legal, get more of the tapes... keep a voice activated tape recorder around. Make sure you get your part of it as well because if you only get his part it could be construed that you are editing the tapes to make him look worse.

Since you have never called the police on him it will be very hard to prove domestic abuse. From here on out call the police EVERY time he hits you, throws things, pounds things. Have him removed from the home and get a restraining order against him so that he cannot return to the home.

Find a domestic violence support organization in you area. Start going to counseling there. They can help you in many ways.

As for custody, you might be able to get 50/50 custody. Since you have never called the police on him it will be very hard to prove domestic abuse. 

You have power in this but have advocated it. Get your power back and use it.


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## SadieBrown (Mar 16, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> What I went through with my ex was 1000x's worse then that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read your entire post and what your went though is bad. But it doesn't do any one any good to try and compare who was abused the worse. Abuse is abuse. My ex hardly ever raised his voice -he would have considered that low class - but I was subjected to some of the worse mind games imaginable. There are lots of ways to abuse someone, all abuse is bad.


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## SadieBrown (Mar 16, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> I put together this video to document what verbal abuse sounds like and what it feels like to me:
> 
> Domestic abuse caught on tape - YouTube
> 
> ...


This is inexcusable. I wouldn't worry to much about a custody battle - just play this tape for your lawyer and let him take it from there. Laws vary by state but in most states if one of the parties to the conversation (that would be you) is aware the conversation is being taped then it can be used in court. I was on a jury for a divorce case a couple of years ago and the husband was allowed to use taped conversations that took place between him and the wife because he was aware the conversation was being taped. 

But you need to leave - nobody deserves to be talked to like that. And what are your kids learning about 'love' and marriage if they see your husband talking to you like this and getting away with it? Do them a favor and leave.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Of course you kids do not respect you as much. They see that you allow yourself to be abused. They will often pick the side of the parent who they see to be the strongest one.
> 
> Your husband is picking on your 12 year old because he is not becoming a threat to your husband's position as the alpha male in the home. It will get a lot worse


Heed EleGirls words.

This will happen.

Your husband seems insecure and easily threatened he`ll try to pre-empt your eldest son in an alpha male intimidation routine.
If your son has the courage and self respect to refuse to take it it could get physical.
If he doesn`t have the courage the intimidation will insure he never gains the self respect.

You should really get the hell out of this situation for your children's sake.

When he`s abusive, especially physically call the cops.
You need documentation of this if it escalates.


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## Live Laugh (Jan 24, 2012)

I was so saddened to listen to that! I am so sorry for what you are growing through. It sounds like your husband has some deep rooted issues that have nothing to do with you at all. This is so not about you love. If he moves on to another relationship, I PROMISE you he will treat her the EXACT same way. Having said all that, be smart about what you have to do. Come up with an escape plan, and leave.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

bkj5138 said:


> Thanks for all of the comments. I'm 38, and I have a college education and a good job. In fact I think that is part of the reason his language is so denigrating toward me--he's threatened by it and wants to knock me down so he can feel superior.
> 
> I should say that his language is not like this every day. It seems to go through waves, and worsened by stressful situations in life. He has slapped me on only a few occasions over 13 years; otherwise the abuse has only been verbal. I've never called the police. He's mostly kind to our kids, and does a ton of stuff with them, but very recently he has been lashing out against our oldest son, who is now 12. Still, the kids are very much attached to him. I know they love me too, but it seems like they have less respect for me. He sets himself up as the primary parent. I'm afraid how things might unfold in a custody battle. At least now I'm still seeing my kids every day.
> 
> I posted this on a legal advice website, and all they said to me was, "This sounds like typical end-of-marriage stuff." And they made me feel like a jerk for even posting it, even when I told them I went to great lengths to make everything anonymous. This is why I'm nervous everything may backfire on me.


He will have 50/50 custody more than likely... Also with the 12 year old the courts would more than likely take the child's thoughts into consideration. 

Has there ever been a domestic call to the house? 

Has he ever addressed the verbal abuse professionally? You say he's not always like this. How often is he? Has it worsened or lessened over the years? I know that once is enough, but also I know personally I have put up with the treatment in hopes that it improves , and sometimes it does... That why we hang on, that next ounce of improvement. So just trying to see maybe what made you hang on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

SadieBrown said:


> I read your entire post and what your went though is bad. But it doesn't do any one any good to try and compare who was abused the worse. Abuse is abuse. My ex hardly ever raised his voice -he would have considered that low class - but I was subjected to some of the worse mind games imaginable. There are lots of ways to abuse someone, all abuse is bad.


Oh, absolutely! I wasn't trying to compare. I think this video is great for helping others and raising awareness to being abused. When I was going through this, I didn't realize he was abusing me until I got myself out of the situation. 

Abuse is abuse and should never be tolerated!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

P.S. also meant to say I think your recording would make an excellent P.S.A. Oftentimes verbal abuse is underestimated and people can't recognize it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Cherry said:


> P.S. also meant to say I think your recording would make an excellent P.S.A. Oftentimes verbal abuse is underestimated and people can't recognize it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Although my husband has never been diagnosed with it, I wonder if he might have Borderline Personality Disorder. A friend recommended the book, Walking on Eggshells, as well as some websites, and I have to say the descriptions really hit close to home, especially the part about the distortion campaign. For the past couple years he has been trying to convince our friends and people in our church that I'm the unstable one, that I'm the one who needs help. They believe him because he is so sincere about it. Now I'm not perfect, but what I do know is that I've never, ever talked to another human being, let alone my spouse, the way he talks down to me. But it's hard not to have self doubts.

Beth

P.S. It is legal in my state to tape record, as long as you are part of the conversation.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Bkj5138,

I'm so sorry for your situation. The audio really shook me to the core because that was my EXW to the T. She would drop the F bomb and the Mfer bomb when upset about something and plenty of times in front of our son. When I would finally react and tell her to STFU then I was the one with "issues". 

Please consult an attorney and see about the legality of using this audio in the courts. Make sure to tell your lawyer about this audio AND that its on youtube. More than likely he/she will tell you to take it down for now or permanantely.

You are a brave, strong person for putting up with that abuse but its time to make some decisions that will affect the rest of you life. 

I think verbal abuse is worse or can be worse that physical. Verbal abuse destroys you mentally, spiritually and is designed to control you. It is all about control. Please get help and leave this scumbag.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bkj5138 said:


> Although my husband has never been diagnosed with it, I wonder if he might have Borderline Personality Disorder.... I have to say the descriptions really hit close to home.


BKJ, welcome to the TAM forum. BPD traits was my first suspicion when I saw your thread posted yesterday. I've been following it since to see if you revealed any more BPD traits in your description of his behavior. Temper tantrums and the resulting verbal and physical abuse are one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. 

Another hallmark is the vindictiveness so evident in the distortion campaign he has done against you. Such campaigns are very damaging because casual friends and business associates rarely, if ever, see the dark side of high functioning BPDers. They don't see it because none of those folks are able to pose a threat to a BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. 

Namely, there is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy that can cause engulfment. It therefore is common for a high functioning BPDer to treat casual friends and strangers with kindness all day long and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him. Heaven help those casual friends, however, if they make the mistake of trying to draw close to him.

Of course, only a professional can determine whether your H's BPD traits are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having the full-blown disorder itself. Yet, even when those traits fall well below that diagnostic threshold, they can be strong enough to make your life miserable and undermine your marriage. Moreover, it is not difficult to spot the BPD red flags, i.e., the pattern of strong traits. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about traits such as verbal and emotional abuse, inability to trust, and black-white thinking.

The B-W thinking will be evident in the way he categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- i.e., as "with him" or "against him." And he will recategorize someone -- in just ten seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or perceived infraction. If your H is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), the B-W thinking also will be evident in his frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always..." and "you never...."

The book you mention is an excellent resource if you would like to read more about these traits. Indeed, it is the #1 best-selling BPD book that is targeted to partners and spouses of BPDers. Alternatively, if you would like to read more about such traits on this forum, I suggest you check out my post in Maybe's thread about his abusive W at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, BKJ.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

SadieBrown said:


> I read your entire post and what your went though is bad. But it doesn't do any one any good to try and compare who was abused the worse. Abuse is abuse. My ex hardly ever raised his voice -he would have considered that low class - but I was subjected to some of the worse mind games imaginable. There are lots of ways to abuse someone, all abuse is bad.


I agree. It's not a competition. No need to 'one up'.

This just chills me. Eeesh...my little one heard some of it and she said, "Turn off the mean man!"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I hate people who bring GOD into this bullshet.

He's a piece of crap. Like poop on my shoe. Loser. UGH! I hate your husband.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for their replies, especially Uptown. I read through your other post (on the "My list of hell!" thread). Your discussion of borderline personality and related personality disorders is the most cogent I've come across in all of my readings, and nearly everything you said resonates deeply with my own experience. I like your suggestion that everyone has BPD traits, at least at a low level, and that the only difference between a "normal" person and someone with the disorder is a matter of degree. I think that is true, and it takes the focus off of coming up with a diagnosis, and instead puts the focus on the destructive behaviors themselves, such as what you hear in my tape. 

The saddest part of my story is that my eldest son has begun taking on similar traits. But I refuse to believe it is too late for him, and I feel I need to do everything in my power to help him and to help my two other children avoid having unstable relationships themselves as adults--yet I fear that is exactly the road down which they are being led.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Well I would like to thank both of you, bkj5158 and Uptown.

Without both of your posts I would not have seen http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html

The original poster of that thread is like somebody that was in my head. There is a good chance my wife has BPD. Not that knowing that helps my marriage in anyway though. At least I feel less crazy.....Thanks


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Damn.
> 
> Why would a man want to be like that?He's making himself miserable along with his family.
> 
> ...


_A man dosent act that way!!!_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> Thanks for all of the comments. I'm 38, and I have a college education and a good job. In fact I think that is part of the reason his language is so denigrating toward me--he's threatened by it and wants to knock me down so he can feel superior.
> 
> I should say that his language is not like this every day. It seems to go through waves, and worsened by stressful situations in life. He has slapped me on only a few occasions over 13 years; otherwise the abuse has only been verbal. I've never called the police. He's mostly kind to our kids, and does a ton of stuff with them, but very recently he has been lashing out against our oldest son, who is now 12. Still, the kids are very much attached to him. I know they love me too, but it seems like they have less respect for me. He sets himself up as the primary parent. I'm afraid how things might unfold in a custody battle. At least now I'm still seeing my kids every day.
> 
> ...


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## SadieBrown (Mar 16, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Oh, absolutely! I wasn't trying to compare. I think this video is great for helping others and raising awareness to being abused. When I was going through this, I didn't realize he was abusing me until I got myself out of the situation.
> 
> Abuse is abuse and should never be tolerated!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just now saw your post. I apologize if I misunderstood your statement.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Well I would like to thank both of you, bkj5158 and Uptown.... There is a good chance my wife has BPD.


CrazyGuy, I am glad to hear that you found the BPD information helpful. To avoid hijacking BKJ's thread, I posted comments about your marriage in your thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/39115-i-am-really-sick-sob-4.html#post580940.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

URGENT UPDATE:

The last few days have been total chaos, and I'm still not thinking straight. A few days ago I got an urgent text message from my 12 year old son, "J", while I was at work. He said he needed to talk to me right away, but unfortunately I didn't see the text until he was already at school and he couldn't use his cell phone anymore. So I called my husband instead, who was still at home, and he confessed to me, "I lost it on J." My husband sounded a little strange and told me that J was saying that he (my husband) had "stomped" on his neck. But my husband said that all he did was smack J a couple times, and that I could ask his brother and sister the real story. I didn't know what to think. When I got my son alone that evening, I asked him about the episode. I decided to tape record what he said to me, thinking it might be important to document it (my son didn't know I was taping). What my son told me was absolutely horrible: J said he got into an argument with his dad during breakfast and told his dad "I hate you." That's when his dad flipped out and ran over to him, held his arms down with one arm and started "punching" him with the other, eventually knocking him off of his chair. Then, while he was on the ground, my son said "he stomped on my neck three times." My son then got away and ran down the basement steps while his dad chased him and started throwing stuff at him. I asked my son if his brother and sister saw all of this, and he said that they saw most of it but not the stomping on the neck, because he was under the table "trying not to get hit." I didn't see any marks.

The first person I talked to was a pastor from whom I had been getting advice. He told me that I needed to report it and take the kids out of the house. In fact, he told me that if I didn't do it, he was now obligated by law to report it, and he gave me until the next day to do it myself. I knew it was the right thing to do, but I still agonized over the decision, and talked to just about everyone in my family to get advice. I finally decided to report it the next day. Child services said they would start an investigation. When I met with a lawyer later the same day, he said we needed to file a restraining order and have it served immediately. Within an hour the judge had granted the restraining order, and I had left to pick up the kids at school. It was like I was in a whirlwind--I couldn't believe it was all happening so fast. The kids and I had to drive around for hours until the sheriff notified us that my husband was served with the order, and was out of the house. I had no idea what to say to the kids, who love their dad very much, and couldn't understand why we couldn't go home and see him. I broke down several times and cried, and finally told them it had in part to do with the episode with J. I shouldn't have said this because J became very emotional and actually started banging his head against the car door, crying and angry at the same time. It was awful. Gut-wrenching. I told him it wasn't his fault. Things were no better that night, and I was having huge regrets about what I did, and the kids wanted to talk to their dad, so I gave in and actually called him even though I wasn't supposed to. I cried on the phone with him and told him I was going to tell the judge at the hearing to drop the order. That was yesterday, and the hearing is in two days. I can't sleep. The kids are calmer, but still very confused. I feel like I've betrayed my husband and my son. My husband has some serious personality issues, but he still loves our kids, and this must be like ripping his heart out.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I suggest you not speak to the judge or rescind the RO, this is counter productive. Children can exagerate , though in this case it sounds like there is a portion of truth. Give time for the children and yourself to settle down emotionally. Then when you have a clear head review the situation before you make a decision. This will take weeks not a few days so do not try and rush the processes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I was going to tell you what a great job you did, up until that last few sentences.

Please for your kids do not let him near your kids right now. It's not fair to your children to allow them to be abused. Your husband needs to heal emotionally or else he WILL hurt your children again. This is not up for you to decide, but licensed professionals and the court system.

Also, you need to get your children in counselling ASAP. Your son will be feeling guilty that he caused all this trauma in the house.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bkj5138 said:


> I cried on the phone with him and told him I was going to tell the judge at the hearing to drop the order. That was yesterday, and the hearing is in two days.


Beth, I agree with EliZor and COguy that it is important that you NOT drop the order. You must protect your children, particularly J, until your H has been in therapy long enough to learn to better control his emotions. This is not the first time he has abused J. Several days ago, you wrote that he had already started "lashing out at J" -- which apparently was in the form of verbal abuse at that time. 

Because your H is unable to control his anger, his behavior likely will get worse as J starts rejecting him and breaking away -- as all children do in their mid-teens. It is hard for normal parents to handle such rejection. BPDers, of course, are much worse at handling it because they have such a fear of abandonment and cannot control their emotions.

If your H has strong BPD traits, he likely is more dangerous than a psychopath. Whereas psychopaths (i.e., sociopaths) are emotionally stable, BPDers are not. Hence, the tragedy occurring last Sunday in Washington state -- where Josh Powell took an ax to his two boys and blew up the home -- almost certainly is the work of a BPDer, not a sociopath. Being unstable and filled with anger (carried from childhood), BPDers are unpredictable and can be very dangerous.


> My husband has some serious personality issues, but he still loves our kids, and this must be like ripping his heart out.


Of course he loves them. Yet, if he has strong BPD traits as you suspect, that love provides your children _no protection whatsoever _when his anger is triggered. BPDers do black-white thinking, wherein they are in touch with only one set of feelings at a time because they cannot tolerate having mixed feelings. This means that, when your H is splitting J black, he is only in touch with his negative feelings toward J. At such times, a BPDer is totally out of touch with the love he has for J. Indeed, this is why the process is called "splitting," because that portion of his mind is split off -- i.e., completely inaccessible to -- his conscious mind.


> I feel like I've betrayed my husband and my son.


Yes, of course you feel that way, having a tremendous feeling of guilt. For caregivers like you and me -- and for children like J -- the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema. It goes against every fiber of your being. This is why severely abused spouses and children will remain with a dangerous, abusive parent for years and years. 

Yet, walking away is exactly what you should be doing at this point. Because you are not a BPDer, you are able to intellectually challenge those irrational feelings of guilt and your powerful sense of obligation toward your H. As the rational parent, it is your duty to over-ride those feelings and do what is necessary to protect your children.

Beth, you are not alone in this. There are hundreds of millions of folks going through the same terrible experience. This is a big problem because 6% of the population has BPD at the diagnostic level at some point in their lifetimes -- and the percent is even greater when you include those having strong BPD traits that fall short of the diagnostic threshold.

You will find the stories of thousands of spouses and partners of BPDers at BPDFamily.com - Boards. It is the largest BPD website targeted solely to the spouses and family members of BPDers. Of the 8 message boards there, the one that may be of greatest help to you is the "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" board. Moreover, the articles at that website are generally excellent sources of professional advice. But please don't forget us here at TAM. We want to continue sharing our experiences with you as long as you find the information helpful. And you are helping others here by sharing your experiences.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

The judge will not just drop the order after she/he reads the affadavite (sp?). She will probably ask to speak to your son and your other children re: the incident. If you are concerned what could happen at a future custody battle, this could seal your H's faith. It is the perfect opportunity for you to protect your children from being further abused by this man. TAKE IT.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for the advice--it is very helpful to me. I talked to my lawyer today, and shared with him my uneasiness regarding the protective order. I told him that my ultimate goal is not to divorce, but to force my husband to get counseling. I want my family healed, not destroyed. He said our current route is still the route to take, because, if the protective order is upheld, we will be in a better position to make that happen. He also recommended that I file for divorce. My husband has previously threatened to move our kids back to the state where we used to live, and where all his family still lives. My lawyer said that there is no law preventing him from doing this. He could just pack up the kids and leave! Should he do so, it would become a legal quagmire, not to mention that my career, and a majority of our income are very much tied to our current city. Filing for divorce would keep him from moving the kids. But the problem is that I've already told my kids that I was not planning on a divorce (that's the first thing they asked me). I asked my lawyer if a legal separation would accomplish the same thing, and he said yes, so that is what we will be filing.

The kids are still very anxious and not wanting to go to school. Fortunately my mom is now here to help out.

The hearing is scheduled for tomorrow, but there is a chance it will be postponed to later in the week. I'll update then. Thanks again!

Beth


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Beth, best of luck at the hearing! It sounds like your attorney gave you very good advice.


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## mrsamazing (Feb 9, 2012)

Please do not cancel the restraining order. It is your job to protect yourself, and your children. I was verballyand physically abused by my XH. In order to get out, I had to admit to myself and others that I aS being abused. This can be a big step. Also, if you allow him back in your home, you become a party to thes abuse as well as victim of. I am not blaming the victim here, just pointing out that she is in control legally speaking,.and if she doesn't utilize the restraining order, that is an active choice. If you still feel the need to communicate, the order can allow for emails. That way there is a record of all communication. The important thing right now is to be safe. I also think H &W will need seperate healing before they can even think of rebuilding the marriage. Another thing that helped me commit to getting out was imagining my son being the same husband his father was. I couldn't let that happen. 

Good luck. Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Do not, Do not drop this!!! if you even can, what if he does it again, or it gets worse (which it surely will)?
he can be forced into seeing a counsler, by a judge before he would be able to see the kids again....follow what your atty advises to PROTECT your kids, if you dont protect them now who will???


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## mrsamazing (Feb 9, 2012)

Update?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

Very sad story. I wish you and your family the best. I did not even know what BPD was until I read this post. 
Was your husband always like this or did he just slowly transform into someone you do not know anymore?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> Thanks for the advice--it is very helpful to me. I talked to my lawyer today, and shared with him my uneasiness regarding the protective order. I told him that my ultimate goal is not to divorce, but to force my husband to get counseling. I want my family healed, not destroyed. He said our current route is still the route to take, because, if the protective order is upheld, we will be in a better position to make that happen. He also recommended that I file for divorce. My husband has previously threatened to move our kids back to the state where we used to live, and where all his family still lives. My lawyer said that there is no law preventing him from doing this. He could just pack up the kids and leave! Should he do so, it would become a legal quagmire, not to mention that my career, and a majority of our income are very much tied to our current city. Filing for divorce would keep him from moving the kids. But the problem is that I've already told my kids that I was not planning on a divorce (that's the first thing they asked me). I asked my lawyer if a legal separation would accomplish the same thing, and he said yes, so that is what we will be filing.
> 
> The kids are still very anxious and not wanting to go to school. Fortunately my mom is now here to help out.
> 
> ...


Are you ok? You must NOT go back, with your kids, to this man! It will get worse; men like this are capable of MURDER! They "snap" and lose control. You are putting the life of your children and yours in GREAT DANGER if you go back to him. Divorce him and the kids will be much better off. They fear divorce, because they are kids, but their greatest fear should be their father! And you, as their mother, have to protect them from that!

Please update us! We hope you are ok!!


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Court delays! Ugh. Looks like the hearing may finally take place tomorrow. I just want it to be over with.

Gonefishin, regarding BPD, my husband has never been diagnosed, but all I can say is that when I first read about it, including the raging, the splitting, the gaslighting, and especially the distortion campaigns, I was literally brought to tears. Everything finally made sense! It seemed like a perfect fit to me, and in retrospect, I think the symptoms went all the way back the early days of our marriage, though they were not as severe. 

I'll update ASAP. Thanks.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bkj5138 said:


> Gonefishin, regarding BPD.


Beth, it is wise to take a break from it occasionally. Unless you give it time to sink in, the learning process can become as confusing as trying to choose among two dozen perfumes at the same time. Thanks so much for the update.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Everything went very badly. After multiple delays, we finally arrived at the courthouse on Thursday morning to decide whether or not the protective order against my husband would be upheld. Prior to the actual hearing, we were required to play for the opposing attorney the audio tapes of my husband and the tape of my son describing the violent episode with him, before they could be submitted as evidence. This was done, but unfortunately the actual hearing never took place and was further postponed until yesterday due to conflicts in the judge's schedule.

Of course, now my husband was aware of the existence of all the audio tapes, and he knew he had to undermine our son's testimony. Since he himself was unable to call our son due to the protective order, he instead had his sister call--which she did, and by the time I went to pick up my son from school on Thursday, he was extremely angry, refusing to come home with me, cussing and yelling, and saying things like, "I talked to Auntie D, and now I know how you used me," and, "I know you're doing all this just to 'get Dad' before divorcing him," and, "You're trying to get Dad declared 'unfit' so we never see him again." Obviously, all these things were coming from his aunt. My son was so agitated he actually ended up going home with a teacher (mistake on my part). 

So we finally had the hearing yesterday morning, and my son was put on the witness stand by the opposing counsel (against our objections--we requested the judge speak to him in chambers). My son ended up confirming most of the violent episode with his dad, including the hitting, getting knocked to the floor, and having things thrown at him, but said he exaggerated the part about having his neck "stomped" on. Then, in a heartbreaking scene, my lawyer played the audio of my son talking to me in private, completely contradicting himself. "Which is the truth?" asked the judge. "What I'm saying now," my son answered. "Are you afraid of your dad?" "No." And the protective order was dismissed.

The judge declared that what had happened between father and son was very wrong, but that it did not rise to the level of granting a protective order, especially in light of a pending legal separation (for which we had also filed). The judge instituted an order that there be no physical punishment in the home whatsoever. She then stated that we would have to work out our own parenting schedule until the magistrate gave temporary orders. She suggested that our children be allowed to spend the evening with their father, since they hadn't seen him in a while.

My husband immediately took all three of our kids out-of-town to be surrounded by his family. Of course, I've been trying to call my kids. My eldest son refuses to answer his cell phone at all. My 10-year-old daughter answered her phone last night, but began saying the exact same kind of things as her brother, basically accusing me of betraying our family. She then said, "I don't want to talk to you anymore," and hung up the phone. Now she doesn't answer. My sweet little 8-year-old boy doesn't have a phone and I have no idea what he's thinking. I feel like somebody has punched me in the stomach. I feel like my kids are drowning and they're out of my reach. It's unbearable. What else are they being told? How can they not know me better after all these years?

My mom came into town for the hearing, but then had to return home. So, as I write this, I'm sitting alone in our empty house, surrounded by silence. Worse than silence--it's like there is a hole left behind where my kids' voices used to be.

This is what I meant when I said I was worried everything might backfire.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

When are they due home? 

So when did you legally separate? Was it after this tape? Are y'all still living with each other?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know there is not anything anyone can say to make this easier.

Just rest assured you are doing the right thing. Sometimes that is the hardest decision. But you are doing what's right for your kids. Stand strong in that decision. Be the bigger person and don't stoop to the level of your husband.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Beth, I'm so sorry for the terrible outcome. You were right to be worried about the court ruling all along. But the kids are not stupid. They will soon figure out on their own that their dad has serious issues.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Cherry, we're both still in the marital home until the magistrate establishes a parenting schedule, which could take a month or two!

Still no communication from my husband or kids. I'm expecting them back home tonight.

By the way, I didn't mean to suggest that I've received bad advice. Legally, I guess I'm doing the right thing. But right now I don't even care about the legal issues. Right now, all I can think about is my kids. How can this be happening? How is it that they are believing these things about me? I'm thinking about my husband, and how, when he is being verbally abusive toward me, he always ends his tirade by saying things like, "Look what you've done," and "Why do you make me have to behave like this?" It always gets twisted around back to me in the end. And my kids have been trained to think this way.

My husband's family members, who have never seen his abusive side, who have only seen the squeaky-clean Christian guy image he portrays to the outside world, are of course rushing to his aid. You would not believe the angry emails and text messages I've received from them just in the last couple of days. Even our church friends have shamed me for filing for "divorce" (even though I filed for legal separation) and for "destroying" our home. I feel like I'm suffocating under an avalanche. Thank God for my mom and for my siblings, and for the few friends who are supporting me.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Yes but YOU know the true story. Sometimes the high road is tough. There's few people in your life that know what's really going on. For God's sake though, you have tapes of him abusing you. You're not making things up. The guy beat up your son.

I know it's tough to listen to when you're in the middle of the crap pile. But this old advice is really true. "Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."

The people in your life who aren't supporting you, who are judging you. They are not your real friends. The people in your life that really love you and care for you and are truly good people in your lives, they know you are doing the right thing.

You see it in movies all the time, it usually takes big events in your life to show you who your true friends are. Sometimes the people who we thought were our closest friends and had our backs no matter what end up being the first to leave in your life when something bad happens. But we also find that there are people on the periphery of our day to day, who come out of the blue to show us real friendship, and surprise us with great love and care then we would have known otherwise.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bkj5138 said:


> My husband's family members, who have never seen his abusive side, who have only seen the squeaky-clean Christian guy image he portrays to the outside world, are of course rushing to his aid.


Beth, separating from a BPDer is a painful, nasty experience because untreated BPDers are so spiteful and vindictive. They likely will spread lies. Most of the damage, however, likely is due to their projections because they sincerely believe those distorted perceptions are true. That sincerity -- combined with the fact that they've never shown their dark side to other people -- makes them very persuasive and convincing.

My exW, for example, persuaded the police that I had "brutalized" her (while her sister and our granddaughter were 15 feet away behind a closed door). She got me thrown into jail and, because it was on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly three days before I could be arraigned before a judge. That gave my exW time to obtain a restraining order preventing me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in this State). 

Of course, I have permanently lost contact with four step kids whom I had loved for 15 years. The fifth step kid initially broke off contact for two years but then reconnected with me. And, of course, I lost nearly all our mutual friends -- a common experience for the ex-partners of BPDers. I therefore suggest you get a copy of _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. It was released about six months ago and is written by Kreger, the same author who wrote the _Eggshells_ book you mentioned.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

COguy, thanks for the perspective. You are right about finding true friends.

Uptown, thanks for sharing part of your own story. How is it that children whom you have loved for 15 years could be persuaded to write you off completely? How can a child just turn off those emotions? How can that kind of brainwashing take place?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bkj5138 said:


> Uptown,... how is it that children whom you have loved for 15 years could be persuaded to write you off completely? How can a child just turn off those emotions?


My exW and I had dated when I was 19 and 20 and then, because she was desperate to get away from her abusive father, she dumped me and married another guy. Hence,we did not see each other again for 27 years. When we got back together, she already had 5 children, the youngest of whom was 16. 

The result is that, although I loved all of them dearly for the next 15 years, they never bonded with me the way they did with the parents who had raised them. The usual result, when a stepfather divorces the mother, is that he will not see the step kids again unless he helped raise them from childhood. The outcome is even worse, of course, when that mother is a BPDer who has been bad mouthing him to the kids -- so as to "validate" her false notion that she is a victim.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

bkj, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I just can't imagine what you're feeling. My thoughts & prayers go out to you and your family. 

Haven't read through all your responses....is there counseling available for you to get your children into ASAP when they get home? 

This has to be so confusing for them and SHAME on your H and family for putting them in the middle of this. But you know that just shows how desperate they are as they know the truth and the only way they can get back at you for doing the right thing is through the kids. 

I can tell you, although, my experience was nothing as traumatic as yours, children are smarter than we sometimes give them credit for, and they will eventually see the light and who REALLY has their best interests at heart. In the meantime, don't give up on them! You keep fighting!! They NEED you to be there for them!!!


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Please get your children into counseling right away. They ARE learning things from their dad and your kind and loving treatment--and counseling, individual for the kids (and you) AND family counseling sessions, with a professional therpaist---will be a very important part of maintaining your relationship with your kids. 

And start now with a new mantra, "No one 'makes' you feel or do anything. It's a choice you yourself make." Learn how to explain that and follow up on it with your kids--not necessarily in relation to their dad right now, just in general. You'll probably be surprised to realize how often people say things like, "Well, s/he made me feel . . " The sooner your kids learn that they choose their emotions, the better. And assuming they are intellectually normal, they will eventually understand why their dad's words are so wrong. God bless & good luck.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

I finally saw my kids again tonight after work. My husband had returned from his trip with our three kids, and was already at home along with a few of his family members. At first, only my 8-year-old son was glad to see me, while the others just stared at me in awkward silence. I was playing with my son, and asking him about his trip, when everyone else assembled in the family room and formed a semi-circle around me. All of them began accusing me of using my own kids to attack my husband because I wanted to "get him" before divorcing him. When I replied that I did not want a divorce, and that I had only filed for temporary legal separation, just like I had promised my kids, my 10-year-old daughter came up to me, called me a liar, and handed to me court documents on which the word "divorce" had been highlighted in yellow (I think this was a standard letter from her attorney). My eldest son then stated, "You dragged us all up here for your job, knowing that you were going to divorce Dad, and now that we've lived here the required 6 months, that's exactly what you're doing." (I didn't know about this law, and obviously this is not something my son discovered on his own.) Then things really got out of control, with everyone becoming very angry, especially my eldest son. I can’t even bear repeating the things he was saying. At one point my little daughter said, "Dad's on the side of God, and you're on the side of Satan." How can anyone teach a child such things? I thought I was going to be sick to my stomach. Then I looked over at my husband, who was just standing there with his arms folded, and he was actually smiling. As long as I live on this earth, I will never forget that smile. Finally he said to me, and these were his exact words: "You brought this upon yourself when you tried to take these kids away from their father." I couldn't even process what was happening--it was completely overwhelming. All I could do was run out of the house. I’m staying with a friend tonight.

I don't think think I'll be posting for a while. I definitely appreciate everyone’s advice, but I feel like my story is just becoming too crazy, with no end in sight. I don't want to overextend the good graces of everyone who has spent time responding. My lawyer is petitioning the court for a guardian ad litem and for a forensic psychologist. Hopefully they will be able to help. Most of all I believe God is ultimately in control. Thanks everybody.

Beth


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello, 

I read all your posts and it really seems like you have a fight on your hands at this time. 

This is the time for you to be strong, calculated and decisive in your actions. Your children are at the age where they will believe whatever they are told. It is not their fault what they are telling you neither do they mean it. They are being heavily influenced and do not know any better. 

A wise person on your husband's side would have left your children out of this conflict. An even wiser person would have made the effort to look at things from your perspective as well. 

However it seems clear that you do not have that luxury. They may portray themselves as Christian but they treat this situation like a fight and they hold nothing holy when it comes to fighting it. 

My dear, this is not the time for you to give in to the pain. You as a woman are stronger than you think. Focus on your kids, they need your help now and they need you to be strong for them. 

Focus on your husband, he needs your help too. He likely has psychological problems and he needs to hit rock bottom before he will concede to treatment. 

I strongly suggest you be wiser and better than your husband and his family seem to be. Refrain from doing anything illegal or immoral, however aside from that: 

Set aside your grief for later. Now you need to get the kids and yourself separated from your husband and his family by whatever legal means necessary. Plan your actions carefully, calmly and deliberately. Enlist the help of anyone you can call on. 

Make no mistake this is the defining conflict in your life and you need to rise above it and conquer it. 

Once things are in your control, once the kids are with you and away from him, then is the time to discuss him getting help. I strongly advise that he is to be allowed back in the family only with the accord of two psychiatrists, one who treats him and one for a second opinion chosen by you or someone you trust.

Reason being that your children are suffering through turmoil that risks affecting them deeply for their future adult lives. They need a balanced environment and you need to be strong and take steps to provide that. 

If for example you are within your legal rights to take the kids and go somewhere do so. Do not let yourself be swayed by emotions or what they tell you, remember they are being influenced and it is your duty as their parent to protect them. 

Any step, any option including divorce needs to be analyzed in order to gain control over the situation. Focus your mind and block the fear and the pain, get good legal advice and once the plan is made act decisively and unwaveringly. Nothing is stronger in human interactions than a woman acting for her children. Tap into that power.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Furthermore very importantly.

I strongly suggest you break off talks with him and his family. You just act, you do not talk. 

There is no winning a situation where you are surrounded by his angry family, you need to be strategically smart like that and not allow yourself into these kinds of situations. 

You talk to who you want to talk and about what you want to talk. Choose your words and actions carefully and remove the chances they have and will use fully to hurt you.

Do not read their sms, mail or even legal documents. Your lawyer is very good for that. 

You need your focus to gain control of your situation not to sustain the pain they will inflict on you if given the chance. 

Watch out, they will use your children to communicate. When you speak to them control the conversation do not allow your children to transmit messages for them or to accuse you. Simply say words along the lines of "mommy does not want to talk about that right now, I will talk to daddy about this later, what did you have for dinner honey?"


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry bkj. Be strong, you've got a lot of people here in your corner. We'll be praying for you.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

After the previous episode I contacted my lawyer, who stressed the importance of staying in the marital home, and so the next day, after work, I returned. Nobody was home, and when I tried to use my key to get in the door, I found that the locks had been changed! How could he be allowed to do that?! I saw my lawyer again the next day, who again stressed the importance of staying in the marital home. He told me that I had just as much right to be in the home as my husband, and that legally I had the right to break a window to get in if I needed to. But, he advised me that should I decide to do such a thing, I should call the police first. At this point I felt numb. I couldn't think straight. How could my kids--who just a week ago, were so affectionate toward me, and who would never let a night go by without me tucking them in--how could they be turned so completely against me? All I could think about is that I need to be around my kids, so they can see that I'm the person I've always been, and that the things being said about me were untrue.

That evening I called the police dispatcher, explained the situation, and requested that an officer be present at my home because I planned on breaking a window to gain entry. The dispatcher replied that an officer could not be present for liability reasons, since property was going to be damaged, but advised me, "If it is your home and you have a legal right to entry, you do what you have to do." "What if things get out-of-control?" "You can call us then." At this point I should have stopped, and thought things through further, but like I said, I still wasn't thinking straight. I went to the home, broke a back window, and entered. I didn't know it at the time, but my husband was upstairs, locked in a room with our kids. I was only walking around downstairs for a minute or two, when two police cars showed up at our home--apparently called by my husband. I came outside to meet them, and they actually started to arrest me! After a half-hour of confusion, with my husband shouting things out the door, suggesting that I'm a danger to our children, the police eventually called the dispatcher and confirmed my story. They also went inside and talked to my kids, who, according to the police, were deathly afraid of me and saying that I was coming to kidnap them! What?! Finally the police said to me, "Look, you have a right to be in your home, but we're letting your husband leave with the kids." And in five minutes, they were all gone.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

_I think they heard me calling: giggling voices—muffled at first, now becoming clear

But they only rush past me: three sets of pajama-bottomed feet, running up the steps_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

That was painful to listen to Bkj, I grew up in an emotionally abusive household.

Wish for you the best. Your kids will come around. The truth *always* comes out in the end.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Beth, like Complexity, I found your update painful to read. I am so sorry you are having to suffer through this. I cannot say that I am surprised, however. If your H is a BPDer, he can be expected to be very vindictive and mean. As I said earlier, my exW had me arrested and then made such awful allegations to my five step children that none of them spoke to me for two years. One has since reunited with me but the other four will never do so.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

So sorry! I can not imagine the the pain you are going through right now. Stay strong even when it seems impossible! You have to have your wits about you to get your kids back.


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## AbsolutelyFree (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't understand what you were doing when you broke the window. I understand about the legal rights part, but what were you actually trying to do? What did you hope to have happen differently?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

AbsolutelyFree said:


> I don't understand what you were doing when you broke the window. I understand about the legal rights part, but what were you actually trying to do? What did you hope to have happen differently?


Was she going to camp out on the lawn? It was clear by her H changing the locks that he wasn't planning to let her back in. And it was stressed by her attorney that she needs to stay in the marital home. If she wilfully leaves the marital home, she has a greater chance of losing primary custody of the children. 

What an awful situation Beth. I sure hope the courts can see right through this whole situation. Does he have anything that he can use against you, proof of any kind of neglect, abuse, etc.? In other words, have you been a good mother, and he has nothing solid to dispute that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

It was stupid of me. Stupid. My lawyer told me it could take 1-2 months for parenting orders from the magistrate, and I could not bear to be shut out of my children's lives until then. I just wanted to be with them, so they could see I'm the same mom who's always loved them. It was bad advice from my lawyer, but ultimately it was my bad decision.

By the way, I have no skeletons in the closet. I've never abused anyone, and I have never before been accused of abuse. Even when my spouse would occasionally strike me, I never struck back. Not once. I have no drug or alcohol problems. No mental health history. No medications. I have no criminal record whatsoever. I come from a stable, loving family. I have a spotless job record.

I've found out that my husband is telling other people it is my intent to "kidnap our kids and take them to a different country." He has told our friends that I'm "emotionally abusive," and has even accused me of having an affair with someone at work (untrue). Previously mutual friends at church have cut off contact with me. He actually has "prayer chains" going on on his behalf.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

So has anyone actually filed for divorce? I was under the impression that they can have an emergency temporary order when the parents are not being civil? Where are you going to stay? In the marital home, has he taken them elsewhere to live until then? I don't understand..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

There is actually more going on, but I have to be careful discussing it right now. After the broken window incident my husband filed a restraining order against me, which was granted on a temporary basis. I have to appear in court on Monday to defend my actions, and the judge is going to decide whether or not to uphold the restraining order. My lawyer tells me not to be discouraged. He told me that once the judge hears all of the facts the protective order will likely be dismissed, and we can appeal for emergency temporary parenting orders, just like you mentioned. He said all this may be a blessing in disguise, though this seems overly optimistic to me. However, there is some additional evidence against my husband, which I cannot discuss at this point, but which gives me some hope.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Okay, good. That does appear promising Beth. So long as your H doesn't use anything fabricated during the protection order hearing, you should be good. If the judge has any common sense and can see through this guys crap, you will be okay . You're in my thoughts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

GREAT NEWS!

The protective order hearing went even better than I had hoped.

The first thing the prosecuting attorney did was put my husband's mother on the stand, and basically asked her only one question: "Have you ever seen your daughter-in-law behaving violently?" She replied, "Yes, once." I was very nervous at this point, because I could not possibly imagine what she was going to say, and I was worried she was going to make something up. She went on to say, "A couple years ago Beth was over at my house and she got angry at one of her sons for shooting his brother in the eye with a Nerf gun. She yelled very loudly, broke the gun and threw it in the garbage." That was it. That was the whole story. That was the pinnacle of my violent behavior. I looked at my lawyer in disbelief. He was actually smiling.

My husband was then put on the stand, and was asked a number of questions by his lawyer. My husband described how the kids were "afraid" of me, and how they couldn't sleep, worried that I would come into the house and take them from him, and that is why he had to change the locks. He then described the "terrifying" incident with me breaking the window to get into our home. And then he got emotional, and talked about how he was just trying to provide the best environment for his kids.

Then it was my lawyer's turn. The first question he asked my husband was, "Did your wife ever communicate to you her desire to work out a parenting schedule?" My husband responded, "No." My lawyer then asked my husband, "Have you ever threatened to call the police if your wife simply entered the marital home?" My husband responded, "No." 

Now, one thing I have not mentioned in my previous posts is that, on the day when my husband had had the house locks changed, I had earlier come into our home to talk to my husband (and his mom, who was also there). I wanted to try to work out a parenting schedule, while we waited for the magistrate's orders to come through. During the conversation, my husband stated that HE was the one controlling the schedule, that the kids didn't want to see me, and he furthermore stated that my mere presence in our home was "intimidating" for him, and his family, and our kids. I replied, "I just sit on the couch and wait for the kids to come over and play with me." He said, "You know that's intimidating. My family and I are not comfortable with you being here." (These are exact quotes, by the way.) My husband then stated that from now on if I tried to come into our home for any reason he would call the police and report me. I said, "You mean to say that if I simply come into this house, you will call the police?" He replied, "Yes I will." I then told him, "You can't do that." He replied, "Watch me." What my husband did not know is that, as advised by my attorney, I had tape recorded this entire conversation. 

So, back to the protective order hearing... With my husband still on the witness stand, all of this audio was played. It completely contradicted the sworn statements he had just made.

Within five minutes the judge had dismissed the protective order against me, and immediately instituted emergency 50/50 shared parenting orders. The arrangement is something called "nesting," whereby the children stay in the marital home full time, while the parents have to alternate in and out--never in the home together, thank God. My time starts tomorrow. This means I will finally be able to interact with my kids without everything I say and everything I do being filtered through the personality of my husband. Thank God!

I know it's going to be a long road repairing my relationships with my kids, but I feel like I finally have a fighting chance.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Beth, that's wonderful news! Congratulations on your victory at that stage of the process. Your careful preparations and foresight (i.e., the VAR) really paid off. I am so happy for you!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Wow. Lying under oath, shouldn't he be in jail now?

Great work on recording, you should tip your lawyer.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Right,

Splendid. Good work so far.

As one of your next moves I strongly suggest you take steps to remove church support for him. His family seems to be with him no matter what but the church will likely not be.

I suggest the first step in this talk to the pastor or the leader of the congregation. Show him the court proceedings and the tapes you have of the abuse. Let him decide how to move forward. Just show the leader the truth and he will likely lead the congregation to be on your side or at least be neutral.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

While that is great news, I am baffled he gave your H any parenting time under the circumstances.. it seemed clear to me that he is blatantly trying to turn your children against you. I would think the judge would try to determine that too before he allowed for equal time. I don't know, just seems like a risky scenario to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> GREAT NEWS!
> 
> Within five minutes the judge had dismissed the protective order against me, and immediately instituted emergency 50/50 shared parenting orders. The arrangement is something called "nesting," whereby the children stay in the marital home full time, while the parents have to alternate in and out--never in the home together, thank God. My time starts tomorrow. This means I will finally be able to interact with my kids without everything I say and everything I do being filtered through the personality of my husband. Thank God!


Just wondering how your time is going with your kids. How are the kids doing?


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah, I was surprised my husband did not get into trouble for committing perjury. Apparently I'm told this kind of thing happens every day in domestic courts.

My lawyer thinks the 50/50 parenting is the judge's attempt to give each of us a chance to display what kind of parent we are, as the divorce proceedings unfold. And, anyway, there are now plenty of people with "their thumb on the pulse of our family." We just recently had a guardian ad litem appointed, and there will soon be a forensic psychologist involved.

My main concern right now is that apparently my husband has been taking our kids to a counselor he knows, a friend of a friend of his. This was done without my knowledge, and I'm suspicious of the motivations. Also, I've learned from my kids that all three of them have been sleeping in the same bed with him, apparently so he can "protect" them. I know there was nothing sexual going on, but I think this was his way of making the kids more dependent on him, and playing into the idea of me as some kind of predator. Anyway, I think it's way inappropriate.

My kids are anxious, confused, and overwhelmed. The recent contentious court battles have only added to the trauma of the divorce in general. I'm trying to be careful not to discuss any legal matters with them, but what do you say to your daughter when she comes up to you, and accuses you of "destroying our family"? And, when you reply to her, "That's not true," she yells back, "Why is it that everyone--Dad, his friends, and everybody in his family--says you're a liar, and you, you are the only person saying different?!" All I could say in response was, "Well, my friends and family ARE supporting me, but they happen to be the kind of people who know better than to discuss such matters with children." Unfortunately, it doesn't sink in. It's like they've been brainwashed in a cult.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

How old are your children?


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

My kids are 8, 10, and 12, boy-girl-boy.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

bkj5138 said:


> My kids are 8, 10, and 12, boy-girl-boy.


Do you play games with them, like cards or board games? Something FUN to get their minds off all this adult stuff? It seems to me they are growing up too fast emotionally and mentally, not sure how to handle it. They need to be KIDS and do fun things!


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes, I agree. Kids need to be kids! I was lucky to have grown up in a home where I never heard my parents fight. I'm sure they did, but they always did it in private. Even financial discussions were behind closed doors. My parents had the philosophy that children should never have to worry about the affairs of adults.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I can't decide if the above post is....


True
The hubby/ex hubby logging onto the account to make wife look bad...
Or if all of this is just a troll post...


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

I don't believe for one minute this is a troll. I KNOW that once I choose divorce, since my husband is BPD and SO similar in behavior while we're together that he would be no different if we divorced as her husband. I've read through this whole post,and shutter because my partner already has our kids brainwashed in similar ways(everything is always my fault).

My kids are 4(girl) 12(boy)13 1/2 (boy). If anything I'm lucky that at least the oldest sees dad for the fck'ed up manipulator that he is

THIS thread is exactly WHY I'm terrified to leave. I know I'll face the same bull**** games 1000X worse than I do now. 

OP I give you much credit for suffering through those things-and staying so strong.


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## bkj5138 (Feb 4, 2012)

I just thought I'd post an update. 

After a whole lot more drama, more false allegations, and unbelievably expensive legal fees, we were finally able to finalize the divorce, with a shared parenting plan. So, at least that is over.

My husband still very much has the kids "on his side," and has very effectively rallied friends and family around him. Any attempt on my part to defend myself or to expose who he really is, only serves to make me look vindictive, so I don't even try anymore. He is just too convincing. The audio tapes would probably shock a lot of his true believers, but I'd never use them for such a purpose.

Sadly I've lost a lot of friends, and I'm often made to feel like a pariah at the kids' social events, but hopefully this will improve over time.

Thanks again for helping me through a very difficult time in my life.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

bkj5138 said:


> I just thought I'd post an update.
> 
> After a whole lot more drama, more false allegations, and unbelievably expensive legal fees, we were finally able to finalize the divorce, with a shared parenting plan. So, at least that is over.
> 
> ...


So was it your H that logged in as you and said that you were actually him? I'm confused.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

That tape made sick... Guy keep talking about god and bible study and whatever while beating her and swearing like a sailor, cussing his wife... I mean, i'm an atheist to boot, but lets keep coherence here. How much "bible study" and praying will you have to do for treating your wife like this?

Time to go to the gym and do some boxing... I'm just upset right now...


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

DO NOT become complacent with the brainwashing of your children!!! I fought this for YEARS! I damn near lost her!

Quick back story: I was married at 20 to a 32y/o man who was initially very confident. It became clear after years (I was naive) that this was OVER confidence and he constantly belittled me. Verbal abuse occasionally crossed over to physical abuse. Over the course of many years I became downtrodden. At first I admired him, then acted so superior I felt INferior to the point I had no confidence in my ability to make my own decisions. After 10 years I became pregnant on the pill. I was a SAHM for 2 years during which we sacrificed a car for that luxury and I was stuck. I realized I needed to leave him, got a job and after 2 more years finally consulted an attorney and left. 

We tried 50/50 - 3 days/4 days alternating. When she started kindergarten I could see this didn't work as our schedules were very different. He was letting her stay up past 11pm, not reading aloud to her or doing any simple homework and getting her to school late. Typical Disney Dad was all I was thinking. I filed for custody and won. He saw her every other weekend and an overnight of his choice the other week. 

During this time he visited her without my knowing - stopping by before- and after-school care every morning and afternoon, taking her for ice cream or the park and dropping her back off at daycare. I say this because alienating a custodial parent is difficult but he was persistent. He visited her nearly daily at school at lunch. He called daily, talking to her for 30+minutes a night and always calling to say goodnight. He made sure she knew he viewed her as the center of his world and enmeshed their personalities - what he liked, she liked and vice versa... including me. 

He blamed everything on me and I thought I was taking the high road by not taking the bait and not talking about him. He called social services claiming all kinds of crazy stuff - the file is long with everything unfounded - I live in the proverbial glass house. He called the police to check on me saying she sounded scared when he said goodnight so they would knock on my door and talk to her. Anything to prove to her that her well being was the center of his universe.

Summer of 2009 - we are both allowed 2 non-consecutive weeks of summer vacation with her, and he had selected the week school let out and also coincided with his regular weekend for 10 days. That last day of school, Friday at 4pm I was served with emergency temporary custody and he kept her away from me for a month. The Judge ruled it was not an emergency and scheduled hearing for July 7th, a month later. 

By this time he had blocked contact with me and brainwashed her. She was terrified of me, she hated me. She wanted to live with him and never see me again - my heart broke. I could not imagine letting her go and knew if I did not fight I would never have a relationship with her. The judge ordered her back into my care but he filed for custody. I enlisted a guardian ad litem, borrowed money from family to pay legal expenses, asked for a court ordered psych eval of all parties and a parental fitness evaulation.

3 years and 40K in debt (well $30K now - paid down) and worth every freakin penny. He is limited to 3 15-minute calls a week; 2 weeks of vacation not to exceed 7 consecutive days. He was diagnosed w/ narcissistic personality disorder and the psychologist found he was utilizing parental alienation techniques and she had been alienated from me by brainwashing. His disorder meant he viewed me as unfit to parent and he was the perfect, faultless parent. The psychologist found him overly permissive with her, didn't set appropriate parental guidelines, etc. whereas I was found to improve my parenting skills (visited a family counselor for years to help her with the divorce) and to be a good and fit parent.

The first year: no hugs (I'd hug but her arms would hang at her sides), no I love you's, very wary of me (and my family and friends) and rebellious, especially for 2 days after her weekend with him. At a year - finally a hug. Then allowed me to kiss her good night. Then after I said "I love you" I'd get a "you, too" but not all three words. After 3 years she will now hug, snuggle, tell me she loves me, ask me to tuck her in... I can't imagine what life would be like had I not FOUGHT for her. And fought hard.

It's called parental alienation syndrome. Please read about it. 

Parental Alienation and Parental Alienation Syndrome Home Page

Divorce Poison is a book I read full of techniques I utilized to get her back mentally. Reminding her of all of the times she loved me with photographs, recreating them, watching movies like "Hook" where the lost boys brainwashed Peter, opened dialog, had friends make positive comments about me around her all of the time, etc. Dr. Warshack's (author) advice was instrumental in salvaging our relationship.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Cherry said:


> So was it your H that logged in as you and said that you were actually him? I'm confused.


Same here...I'm curious about that as well...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BKJ, thanks so much for your latest update. I'm so glad to hear that you have the divorce behind you. Unfortunately, I understand all too well what you mean about him being so "convincing" to mutual friends. Like you, I was married to a high functioning BPDer who could be kind and generous all day long to strangers and casual friends -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who loved her. The result was that, following the separation, I lost nearly all of those common friends because they could not imagine she was mistaken about my behavior. And, like your exH, my exW was very vindictive.


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