# Coping with a WAW



## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Hello, all.

I've posted a couple of threads in the General Discussion section of TAM. I've been here for about a year now. Looking for some male advice.

Here's my situation. (this is original thread I posted elsewhere) 

_We're in a rough patch now - kind of a continuation of one that began earlier this year. It subsided a bit, but just a few days ago came back. I think I misread what was happening before. 

We've be married for 13 years, together for 15. We have 3 kids now. Earlier this year I thought the breakdown was more over her emotional rut and sort of soul-searching phase, like what's her other purpose other than dutiful wife and mother. Which I wasn't at all resistant to her discovering herself. I encouraged her to try and figure it out and I would help in any way.

But her recent breakdown has been more revealing. She simply says she's tired and exhausted. To my guilt, I messed things up a bit for us financially. Not anywhere near bankruptcy, but one credit card debt can really wreak havoc on a family's already tight budget. And that's what I did. I stepped in s***t again. Even at the behest of my wife. It's totally my fault. 

So now she's at the point where she doesn't think she can muster the strength to not only hang around but fears that I might drag us though the dirt again. She feels that I took her for granted. And I have. Her deepest hurt comes from the thought of even though I couldn't fully reconcile the husband/father that I wanted to be with the person that I thought I really was, she didn't care. She loved me no matter what and was proud of me not matter what. And I just didn't fully appreciate that about her. Not in any way that she could appreciate, at least.

She says she hasn't written off our marriage yet. But she'd rather us be apart and still love each other, than risk staying married and end up resenting each other. Kind of a "I'll destroy this village in order to save it" gesture. 

There's never been talk of anybody else. And we've never dealt or experienced any type of infidelity. We've always had a pretty active physical relationship and we even enjoying working out together, even now. Just a little over a week ago we were giggling at silly shows together and she even told me how much she appreciates that efforts I've been making at really paying attention to her needs.

It's a weird place. I guess I never saw it coming, which makes it all seem so devastating. My instinct is to over-coddle. Which probably comes across as manipulation. She has expressed that sometimes she just wants to move on. I know that time and attention can help mend things. But how much time is too much in terms of not specifically trying to address and remedy a marital problem?

I need insight. I know I messed up and I've expressed that. I'll do what it takes to try and win her back. Maybe we have to kind of go through a re-courtship, albeit a very measured and slow one._

Anyway, since this was posted in November, W has pretty much resigned herself to not wanting to be my wife anymore. 

We haven't talked specifically about divorce, but more of a separation arrangement where I'm out of the house and she's with the kids and life will be "what it is". Whatever that means. I really don't think she's thought this arrangement through at all. She's operating out of fear of getting hurt again and the only way she can exist is without me as her partner. We separated for 3 weeks back in December (I moved in with my mother, ugh) after which she said I could move back. 

We're going to MC which really isn't getting us anywhere. I still love her and don't want this to be over. But I can't make her want to be with me. I can't afford to have a separate apartment. She doesn't work so she can't leave. She has no family here.

I'm on the fence as to which approach I must take. MAP? 180? I've accepted that she might not ever want to be married to me any more. Not sure if she's waiting for some kind of magical sign or just here out of convenience. Either way, life is tough.

Thoughts?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Give her what she wants her freedom

Don't be in limbo

55


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why can't she work? Personally, maybe she needs a slap of reality to clue her in to the fact that trying to work on things might be the best approach. 

Or, maybe she's just done, and the two of you need to figure out how to part ways... Hard to tell, with only your side of the story. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

#1 you're giving her way, way too much power. "Wife, get a job." "Wife, you want to leave? There's the door." "Wife, you want all the benefits of being married without actually having to be my wife? Think again."

Cake. Eater.

Own up to your mistakes. Then let them go; you're human.

Do not let her define who you are or what success is or to set the bar for her.

Yes MAP.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

I second the diagnosis of cake eating - the fact that she doesn't want a divorce, just wants you to move out and let her have the kids says a lot.

I know my STBXW places faaaar more emphasis on her role as a mother than as a wife, but she's terrified of the notion of being an ex-wife or a single mom. She filed for legal separation and freely admitted that it was an effort to get me to relent, to just let her do what she wants. Good riddance.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> We're going to MC which really isn't getting us anywhere. I still love her and don't want this to be over. But I can't make her want to be with me. I can't afford to have a separate apartment. She doesn't work so she can't leave. She has no family here.


So what's her plan? To interview new candidates for the job of taking care of her financially lazy self...while you move out of your own home and continue to pay for her to do nothing?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

First off, start working on you. Identify the bad behaviors and fix them. Do it for you, not for anyone else. Your coddling and continued apologies sound like a nice guy traits. Look at No More Mr. Nice Guy to see if it applies to you.



squid1035 said:


> We haven't talked specifically about divorce, but more of a separation arrangement where I'm out of the house and she's with the kids and life will be "what it is". Whatever that means. I really don't think she's thought this arrangement through at all. She's operating out of fear of getting hurt again and the only way she can exist is without me as her partner. We separated for 3 weeks back in December (I moved in with my mother, ugh) after which she said I could move back.


Then make her think it through. Have the hard conversation and find out what she expects out of this arrangement. Decide what you want out of it. Who pays bills? What about visitation for you? Will she get a job? Will she be dating?

Make it very real for both of you. Don't guess. Once the kids go to bed, sit her down and lay out these questions and get answers.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sounds like she gets the house and you get to live under a bridge. She must want to get new locks on the doors so that you cannot disturb her went she has her boyfriends staying over.

She is very checked out. Once she starts sleeping with other men, you will have a hard time competing. It is possible that she will go through some relationships and at last conclude that you are the best she can do. As the B plan guy you may get called up to a spot in starting lineup. That could take two years.

Are you up for it?

Your best bet is to file for divorce and split your assets. Since she doesn't work your are probably going to get hit with alimony. Maybe you can work out a deal to give her the house in exchange for no alimony and no sharing of your pension?

You need to 180 and save yourself.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Sounds like she gets the house and you get to live under a bridge. She must want to get new locks on the doors so that you cannot disturb her went she has her boyfriends staying over.
> 
> She is very checked out. Once she starts sleeping with other men, you will have a hard time competing. It is possible that she will go through some relationships and at last conclude that you are the best she can do. As the B plan guy you may get called up to a spot in starting lineup. That could take two years.
> 
> ...


Yeah, some of these men will dog her out and use her up and you get to lift her up and clean her up after it. That's kinda what she's betting on. She knows you won't go anywhere.

That's why the best advice is to do the least thing they'd expect. I'd get another woman, a nice one... That'd wake her up really quick.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Set the rules for dating now explicitly. Are you both going to be allowed to date or not. 

There is a very very high likelihood she will be dating any way. It simply takes the justification away when you find out she has a boyfriend.

No this is not being flip. It's what has happened on these boards 9999999 times.

Don't be plan B.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Squid has a thread over in LTS. His wife does not sound like what many of you seem to be imagining. To me, she just sounds kind of confused, and maybe scared. I don't get the impression at all that she is out to get another man.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Not normally a fan of separations, but MAYBE it might be beneficial here. I know you feel you cannot afford this now, but posing it to her like "get a job, get your own place, cool off...?"

Later, pitch the idea of a few dates where you both try to be on your best behavior. Try to start off on the right foot.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

If she's the one who wants a separation, tell her she's the one who should move out this time. Don't give her any extra money to do it with either. If she wants money, she can get a job with all her new spare time. If she wants to see you, you can go out on dates together.

If her main problem is simply that she's tired and exhausted, maybe she can go get more sleep/rest away from the kids and the housework and come back when she's caught up. If there's more to it that she's not telling you, this may drag it out in the open.

Sounds like she wants the house, the kids, the money, and none of the effort of being a wife while you still do most of the effort of being a husband.

Counselling fails for one of three reasons:
The counsellor is not a good fit.
One or both of the spouses doesn't actually want to be there or in the marriage but won't come out and say it.
One or both of the spouses is selfish and not listening to what is being said and refuses to understand the other.
If you can honestly eliminate yourself as the problem in the last two, you have to either try again with a new counsellor, or accept that your wife doesn't have what it takes to stay married to you.

Also, did your financial situation improve since you first posted? If that was her 'rationale' for being unhappy back then and you've gotten out of the debt and she's still unhappy, she either doesn't want to tell you the real reason, or she doesn't know it herself. If she's not willing to either be honest or engage in the process of identifying the underlying problem, that just says how little she values your marriage. And how can you keep loving and stay married to someone who doesn't value you? Sounds to me like she just values your paycheck.


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

squid1035 said:


> She says she hasn't written off our marriage yet. But she'd rather us be apart and still love each other, than risk staying married and end up resenting each other. Kind of a "I'll destroy this village in order to save it" gesture.


So here's some male advice (Blunt instrument to the point here). 

"I'll destroy this village in order to save it". So tell her she needs to get a job and kick her out. If she wants to live the single life, you should not be picking up the tab, financially or emotionally. That way you don't feel like a chump when she starts seeing another dude. Protect yourself. 

If your wife wants to leave you, then she should just leave and divorce you. Dangling a possible reconciliation to keep you hanging around is just manipulative and not on. BTW, when a women needs to leave a relationship to go out to "Discover herself", it means exactly that - she wants to see what options are out there. We guys have been known to do that too. But we call it going out on the prowl. 

No offence, but I'm just calling it the way I see it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep, you are giving her way too much power.

She wants to be without you? Then she needs to get a job NOW. Does she think that you are going leave but her life is not going to change? Your short separation gave her an unrealistic view of what life will be like without you.

DO NOT move out. If she wants to have a life without you, then let her find out what that will be like. Tell her that she can move out, without the children. She will need to get a job to support her new place as you are not obligated to support her getting an apartment.

She cannot kick you out of your house because it’s your legal residence. So just stay. Go see an attorney and find out how to protect yourself and prevent her from moving your children.

The bottom line is that if you do not fight for what you want, you will lose it. Right now you are rolling over and doing whatever she wants. Don’t do that. Do what you want.

Do not separate with the idea that this will somehow help the marriage or maintain your love. Few marriages get back together after separation. They are a very bad idea. You have to be together to a relationship.

Get the books “Surviving an Affair” (yes I know that there is no affair. But the book will tell you what to do to rebuild the love in your relationship.) Then after you read that book, get “His Needs, Her Needs”

In addition to doing what the books say… start working on yourself.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Sounds like she wants the house, the kids, the money, and none of the effort of being a wife while you still do most of the effort of being a husband.
> 
> 
> Also, did your financial situation improve since you first posted? If that was her 'rationale' for being unhappy back then and you've gotten out of the debt and she's still unhappy, she either doesn't want to tell you the real reason, or she doesn't know it herself. If she's not willing to either be honest or engage in the process of identifying the underlying problem, that just says how little she values your marriage. And how can you keep loving and stay married to someone who doesn't value you? Sounds to me like she just values your paycheck.


Harsh but truthful words. I've been feeling this a lot lately, that I'm here now just to keep her afloat until she figures out her next move. I don't get it. How long can I take being pushed away, you know? I understand that it's taken around 10 or so years for this to boil over and feelings can not be healed so quickly. But I at least need to hear some hint of acceptance that she wants to see this succeed. So far, I've felt none of that. The end game that she is expressing does not have me in it with regards to marriage.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I appreciate how varied it is.

Part of me wants to play hardball while the other part thinks she is somehow justified. I'm not quite sure how to play this.

Our situation didn't exactly improve, but yes the debt went away. There's definitely more to this story than she's letting on. I don't see how a lack of communication on both of our parts, as she has admitted, can be such a deal breaker.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

squid1035 said:


> Thanks for the advice, everyone. I appreciate how varied it is.
> 
> Part of me wants to play hardball while the other part thinks she is somehow justified. I'm not quite sure how to play this.
> 
> Our situation didn't exactly improve, but yes the debt went away. There's definitely more to this story than she's letting on. I don't see how a lack of communication on both of our parts, as she has admitted, can be such a deal breaker.


How is she justified?

It's one thing if she just wants a divorce and wants to play fair with you.

It's another thing if she wants a divorce and wants you to just walk away but pay for her life style. This is cannot acceptable at all.

What people are telling you is not "hard ball". It's just acknowledging that you have equal rights to her in this situation.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> How is she justified?
> 
> It's one thing if she just wants a divorce and wants to play fair with you.
> 
> ...


 Agreed. I don't think it matters if there's more to the story or not; if she is not going to be all in as a wife then it's no longer his job to contribute as a husband. Whether OP thinks her reasons are justifiable is irreverent, she's not required to stay married to him. Hardball doesn't mean be an a$$, it means looking out for what's fair for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

All I'm saying is that if there is a chance of reconciliation, then hardball probably should not be the move right now. I'm not moving out, for sure.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Right.... don't move out. 

See an attorney. Not because you want a divorce. But to give yourself some knowledge of how it might look down the road..... then at least you'll be able to figure out a few plans...just in case. 

In the meantime, if she talks of separation again...just tell her that she would have to find a job and move out then. It's her choice, either fix things together, or go. 

It's not hardball....it's just common sense.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Sit her down and ask her a honest question and the question is, "How are you going to support yourself?" 

Maybe she has the idea that she can just go on like everything is normal except that you can't live there.

Let her know that it doesn't work that way. Child support and alimony can only go so far and she has to get her head out of the clouds. Better do this soon and break her bubble before it gets out of hand.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Your wife is from the Philippines, right, squid? Is it common for married women to work there? How long have you lived here? How long has she been a SAHM?

I would put yourself in her shoes, and ask yourself how you would like to be treated. Getting her used to the reality of a divorce, including financially, would be a kindness. It does not have to be done in an unkind way.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

jld said:


> Your wife is from the Philippines, right, squid? Is it common for married women to work there? How long have you lived here? How long has she been a SAHM?
> 
> I would put yourself in her shoes, and ask yourself how you would like to be treated. Getting her used to the reality of a divorce, including financially, would be a kindness. It does not have to be done in an unkind way.


I understand. We moved here in 2001. She's been a SAHM since that time.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

squid1035 said:


> I understand. We moved here in 2001. She's been a SAHM since that time.


So there will likely be interim spousal support.

What has your lawyer advised legally in terms of separation agreement?


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lon said:


> So there will likely be interim spousal support.
> 
> What has your lawyer advised legally in terms of separation agreement?


Haven't lawyered up yet. I guess it's time.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Coping with a WAW*



squid1035 said:


> Haven't lawyered up yet. I guess it's time.


That is essentially what your W is telling you.


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