# Tired of accepting men's stereotypes!



## kacy (Jun 30, 2013)

I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes, WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND.When you raise it up with your husband, he says oh you need to chill, its just stupid talk and he loves you at the end of the day. he cant control it if his friends talk shi&t.
One day, I was talking to my husband and his friend (guy), we were talking about how few girlfriends in our group had started working out more recently before breaking up with our guy friends. This situation was generalized into how women do this a lot, workout to get ready for single life if they are unsure about you, and then dumb your ass. Both men were protrayed as dumb founded poor guys while those girls were manipulating, selfish creatures. Im tired of men always putting down women. 
I hate having to roll my eyes and let my guy check out other women in instagram, in the streets EVEN IF IT IS JUST A GLANCE. 

I am tired of MEN talking about women like they are a piece of meat when there are men in the group who are married!! i feel it is so disrespectful to me. I dont care, people out there who will say women do the same. i dont do this, and no girlfriends, mom, aunt, sisters, counsins of mine that i knwo do this once they are in a serious relationship. its hurtful and i am tired of looking the other way or else seeming crazy, controlling, too sensitive!!!! Im tired of us having to deal with it cause boys are boys and they have eyes. oh thats how they talk. Or if there is a bachellor party, strip clubs are almost always involved because that is how society sees it. NO I AM NOT OKAY WITH HIM GOING TO A STRIPCLUB EVEN IF HE DOESNT GET A LAPDANCE. ITS A FORM OF CHEATING WHEN YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE. Maybe I am just old fashioned but it is NOT OK to flirt with other women in the bars when you have a wife even if it is HARMLESS FLIRTING AND STAYS AT THAT. I DONT UNDERSTAND why you need to do this, it hurts our feelings and makes us feel like we am not with someone who loves us unconditionally but with someone who has a character we do not like and do not want to be with. EVERYONE SAYS OH THATS OKAY IF IT IS WITHIN LIMITS AND EVEN GOOD FOR A RELATIONSHIP BUT NO. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS. AM I THE ONLY ONE??

Sometimes I wonder if ALL MEN are like this and I am doomed to be alone if I dont accept these little realities that may seem small but make me feel bad about myself and my relationship.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You sound like a blast!

Ok, enough sarcasm....I realize you're venting. I read your other posts and your husband sounds like a ****. But don't take it out on the rest of us. When you finally decide to dump him, you're new man will want a fun loving, cool woman. Not the woman you sound like in this post.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

kacy said:


> I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes, WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND.When you raise it up with your husband, he says oh you need to chill, its just stupid talk and he loves you at the end of the day. he cant control it if his friends talk ****.
> One day, I was talking to my husband and his friend (guy), we were talking about how few girlfriends in our group had started working out more recently before breaking up with our guy friends. This situation was generalized into how women do this a lot, workout to get ready for single life if they are unsure about you, and then dumb your ass. Both men were protrayed as dumb founded poor guys while those girls were manipulating, selfish creatures. Im tired of men always putting down women.
> I hate having to roll my eyes and let my guy check out other women in instagram, in the streets EVEN IF IT IS JUST A GLANCE.
> 
> ...


The answer to your dilemma is simple.
I suspect that you know what the answer is too.

Simply set your own boundaries and stick with it. It doesn't matter what other women are ok with or what other men in society are doing.
What matters is what do you want from your man in your relationship?

When I started a relationship with my wife, one of her non negotiable boundaries was no sex before marriage , I accepted and today we are still married, many years later.
She didn't care what everyone else was doing or what I was accustomed to. She had her boundaries, and stuck to it.

Back then ,in my opinion, she was well worth the wait , and today , I have no regrets.

But you must understand firstly, that human beings are reward oriented.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Yeah, men have a way about them and yes, I'm a man and to be honest, in my younger days, I did my talking too, BUT never around women. Guys have a habit of checking out a well built lady and from now until the world ends, & will continue.

But on the other hand I have a question and I'm not trying to open a can of worms by asking this.

For example. I remember when women wore bathing suits that pretty much covered everything up. The came the two piece and shortly after the two piece got smaller and guys are seeing a whole lot of butt cheeks. The they got smaller and some of the suits cover damn little of anything. 

So the question is, who are you (not you) wearing this teeny tiny piece of material for? Is it so men will look because if you think that having a string riding up you butt crack to me isn't real comfy and to put it bluntly, their whole ass is showing so who isn't going to look? 

Yeah guys look and make comments but sometimes it's brought on and I'm NOT SAYING ALL WOMEN. I want that made real clear. Have some mercy on me. I'm old (66) and if I make a comment to a women she doesn't like, I'll no doubt wind up getting my ass kicked either by her or her husband/bf.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

kacy said:


> I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes, WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND.When you raise it up with your husband, he says oh you need to chill, its just stupid talk and he loves you at the end of the day. he cant control it if his friends talk shi&t.
> One day, I was talking to my husband and his friend (guy), we were talking about how few girlfriends in our group had started working out more recently before breaking up with our guy friends. This situation was generalized into how women do this a lot, workout to get ready for single life if they are unsure about you, and then dumb your ass. Both men were protrayed as dumb founded poor guys while those girls were manipulating, selfish creatures. Im tired of men always putting down women.
> I hate having to roll my eyes and let my guy check out other women in instagram, in the streets EVEN IF IT IS JUST A GLANCE.
> 
> ...



WOW. Doesn't sound like you think much of men. Good luck with that I guess


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Well no, not all men are like that. I mean I check out women, but I try to be subtle about it, and I definitely don't make crass comments about women around my wife or other women. It's rude, just the way I was raised. You don't say everything you're thinking all the time.


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

Cause women never do this....


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You sound like a blast!
> 
> Ok, enough sarcasm....I realize you're venting. I read your other posts and your husband sounds like a ****. But don't take it out on the rest of us. When you finally decide to dump him, you're new man will want a fun loving, cool woman. Not the woman you sound like in this post.


Bit harsh mate, her narks are legitimate issues, not completely unrealistic. If a woman can't vent these sorts of issues without being put down as 'that' sort of woman, what the hell are we doing here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

kacy said:


> I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes


I am just so tired of it all. Women not checking out men at the gym, or making crude comments to each other, or making dirty jokes about us guys. No fun at all. 



> _I hate having to roll my eyes and let my guy check out other women in instagram, in the streets EVEN IF IT IS JUST A GLANCE. _


Then don't roll your eyes!




> _ NO I AM NOT OKAY WITH HIM GOING TO A STRIPCLUB EVEN IF HE DOESNT GET A LAPDANCE. ITS A FORM OF CHEATING WHEN YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE._


That's a bit extreme. Is it cheating when you go to the art museum and your husband sees paintings of naked women there?


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## WayUpNorth (Dec 14, 2013)

Guys often get out of hand with this.
Many years ago I was sitting at the counter in a restaurant my wife was waiting tables at. A group of 4 oilfield workers were sharing a table nearby. Every time she passed their table, they would start up with the wise ass comments. I could tell she was uncomfortable and soon I had more than I could take. I walked over to their table and gave all 4 of them an old fashioned ass chewing and invited anyone one of them who cared to come outside to participate in an ass kicking contest. I got no takers on the invite. Saw some real red faces, and heard some mumbled apologies. 
Some people just have no class.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Sometimes, when a woman I love is behaving unacceptably I look to excuse her. I will often take out the anger as being on women, as I do not want to blame her personally or try and work it out myself.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

I think there are two issues here.

1. Men with a "roving eye". 

IMHO as long as their eye is not followed by their hands, hearts (or any other part of their anatomy) then it need not be a problem.

2. Disrespectful speech / comments.

It is not nice and it is not clever to make "sexist" or "crude" comments about women that we see but I know I was guilty of this as a young man. If you are offended by what you hear your husband / partner says then tell them so.

If either is truly a "big deal" for you and not just a "pet hate" then make this clear to him.

N.B. Girls / Ladies “check out”, “comment on” and “rate” the guys that they see as well so please do not make this a gender specific issue.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

You mention a lot of different topics in your post so i'll just try to address what you think is stereotypical male behavior.

Everyone has their limits on what they will accept from their spouse so nobody can tell you whether you should relax about it or whatever. All I can say is that I've often seen women do the same kinds of things. Doesn't mean it's right and if i had a real problem with my wife participating in this kind of talk with her girlfriends then I would try to put a stop to it. But my attitude is more relaxed and hers is to mine as well. We don't treat each other like we are the only man and women on earth.

when her and her friends get together, especially if some wine is involved, they've talked about the penis sizes of guys that they've had sex with and other such topics that reduce a guy to a piece of meat (however big or small that meat might be!).

Anyway, i don't mean to make this into a man vs woman thing. it's just that your comments should be seen in perspective.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I once had a chat with a gay friend of my girlfriend who said he could not have blokey conversations. We continued talking about life for about an hour and then he repeated this claim, but I told him he had just had a blokey conversation.

The stereotype is of two insecure men both trying to live up to the stereotype. It is not how normal men speak together.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It very much depends on the men involved. I used to date a guy that had a group of male friends who were as you describe. The sexist comments and the nasty crap I put up with from that group was unbelievable now I think back on it. Dumped that guy. No way was I putting up with that forever!

DH is nothing like that and he's not friends with guys like that either.

Regarding the strip club thing; I remember the BF I mentioned above went to one and lied to me about it. I had a problem with the lying, but didn't much care about the strip club (he couldn't wrap his brain around that, not that I thought it was a difficult thing to understand). I think I had no problem with the strip club, if he had been honest, because I knew the relationship wasn't really going anywhere. I didn't care enough. With my husband however, if he was the type of guy that wanted to visit strip clubs, he wouldn't be my husband. We wouldn't have been compatible for marriage.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

kacy said:


> I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes, WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND.


There are plenty of obnoxious women in the world too.

Surround yourself with men and women who are above this behavior and you will be much happier.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

breeze said:


> Bit harsh mate, her narks are legitimate issues, not completely unrealistic. If a woman can't vent these sorts of issues without being put down as 'that' sort of woman, what the hell are we doing here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


because when a woman takes the stand of generalizing "ALL MEN", she should expect to be generalized.

Her remarks are about her and her husband. Sorry but she needs to reel it in a bit. Now I get that when someone gets EXTREMELY frustrated with their partner...it's easy to blame the entire gender, but ultimately not helpful.

The problem with it is, if all men are this infuriating, then she should either change teams or become a nun.

The real issue is her husband is a callous, uncouth, unsympathetic jerk who needs a wake up call.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

"Absolutely, all people who make blanket statements are idiots!!!"


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kacy said:


> I am just so tired of it all. Men checking out girls at the gym, making crude comments to each other, making dirty jokes, WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND.


I assume your complaint isn't that you're not present when do all this, but that they do it at all. So, you don't want men to notice women at the gym, or discuss women amongst themselves, or tell off-color jokes. Check.



> When you raise it up with your husband, he says oh you need to chill, its just stupid talk and he loves you at the end of the day. he cant control it if his friends talk shi&t.


Your husband's love isn't enough. You want him to refrain from discussing women and, perhaps, exert enough control over his friends to stop them from discussing women. Check.



> One day, I was talking to my husband and his friend (guy), we were talking about how few girlfriends in our group had started working out more recently before breaking up with our guy friends. This situation was generalized into how women do this a lot, workout to get ready for single life if they are unsure about you, and then dumb your ass. Both men were protrayed as dumb founded poor guys while those girls were manipulating, selfish creatures. Im tired of men always putting down women.


So, you want your husband to stop making observations about female friends of yours, if those observations aren't going to be favorable. Check.



> I hate having to roll my eyes and let my guy check out other women in instagram, in the streets EVEN IF IT IS JUST A GLANCE.


You don't want your husband to so much as glance at another woman. Check.



> I am tired of MEN talking about women like they are a piece of meat when there are men in the group who are married!! i feel it is so disrespectful to me.


You don't want ANY man to discuss women, in general, in sexual terms when your husband is present. Somehow, this is harmful to you. Check.



> I dont care, people out there who will say women do the same. i dont do this, and no girlfriends, mom, aunt, sisters, counsins of mine that i knwo do this once they are in a serious relationship.


You would like for all men to behave the same way that you, your family, and your girlfriends behave. Check.



> ... i am tired of looking the other way or else seeming crazy, controlling, too sensitive!!!!


You want to demand that men stop behaving in traditionally and biologically masculine ways, but don't want your demands to be seen as unreasonable. Check.



> NO I AM NOT OKAY WITH HIM GOING TO A STRIPCLUB EVEN IF HE DI DONT UNDERSTAND why you need to do this, it hurts our feelings and makes us feel like we am not with someone who loves us unconditionally but with someone who has a character we do not like and do not want to be with. EVERYONE SAYS OH THATS OKAY IF IT IS WITHIN LIMITS AND EVEN GOOD FOR A RELATIONSHIP BUT NO. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS. AM I THE ONLY ONE??
> OESNT GET A LAPDANCE. ITS A FORM OF CHEATING WHEN YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE.


You want to redefine adultery to include men looking at, but not touching, scantily clad women in order to socially bond with other men. Check.



> Maybe I am just old fashioned but it is NOT OK to flirt with other women in the bars when you have a wife even if it is HARMLESS FLIRTING AND STAYS AT THAT.


You don't want your husband to talk to women in bars. Check.



> Sometimes I wonder if ALL MEN are like this and I am doomed to be alone if I dont accept these little realities that may seem small but make me feel bad about myself and my relationship.


Well, not ALL men are like that. For example, gay men would have very little interest in noticing attractive women or going to strip clubs. Perhaps you could divorce your husband in favor of dating a gay man.

However, if you want to ditch your husband and hook up with another heterosexual man, I very much doubt that you can find one who will not notice women wearing yoga pants, hair extensions, and false eyelashes at the gym, run away from contact with other women in social settings, demand that their friends stop viewing women in sexual terms, forgive your girlfriends all their flaws, and behave just like your best girlfriend. I think your standards for men might be a tad unreasonable.

I think, rather than go on a crusade to change the male sex, your time might be better spent accepting, and even appreciating, the differences between the sexes. If you can do that, then you can recognize the difference between typical male behavior and truly offensive male behavior.

Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sounds like your with a bunch of Jr high kids. Try a relationship with a man instead of a boy.

Not all men keep acting like boys. You should think more of yourself and find an emotionally mature man and friends. We are out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> because when a woman takes the stand of generalizing "ALL MEN", she should expect to be generalized.
> 
> Her remarks are about her and her husband. Sorry but she needs to reel it in a bit. Now I get that when someone gets EXTREMELY frustrated with their partner...it's easy to blame the entire gender, but ultimately not helpful.
> 
> ...



:iagree:

Lost me when she said all men. I am a man. I don't do this so clearly it's not true


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Women notice as much just different things. I work in an office and lady A notices lady B, comments to the boss about lady B and how lazy she is, then tells lazy B isn't the boss unreasonable and difficult. JUST DO YOUR WORK. Why are you looking at everyone else and worrying about what they are doing. It is amazing about how much women check, notice, comment, etc. 

I have an unusual habit. I really don't look at other women too much but when we are at restaurant I am always checking out someone's else's food. My wife says just order what you want but you don't need to be leering at the next table seeing what they have.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Put on your big girl pants, Kacy, and learn how to handle these situations with humor and witty comebacks. Life is not fair, and you must learn how to defend yourself and project confidence. People will respect you when you show them that you do not accept their version of what women are like.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

OP, I understand your rant. My W says the same things. However, mature men don't talk that way. Maybe people will do more of it when drunk, but no, as a rule, we aren't all that way. And being drunk is no excuse for poor behavior, although lots of stupid stuff has happened with drunken people. 

And neither are all women that way. A lot can be said in the negative towads behavior of both genders, but it's all about your boundaries and choice of the people with whom you associate. 

Don't allow yourself to become bitter and angry about all men because of the poor behavior of a few. You sound a bit young (I'm 55) and this is not an uncommon trait amongst certain younger men. Get them in groups and the *mantality *can drop to pretty low levels.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Not all men are like this, Its obvious you have issues with your partner, I really think you need to discuss your boundaries with him, I can tell by this post your very angry.

I have to agree with your bit about the strip club and lap dance bit tho, this is something that is not acceptable in our relationship, but then again my husband would not like me being in a strip club either, so i know whats Okay and whats not in our relationship.

Sounds like you both need a good discussion, because you sound like one angry lady.

Not fair to tar all men with the same brush tho.


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## Dissevered Soul (Mar 4, 2014)

Here's the thing,

It sounds to me like you don't want to leave this guy, you want him to change. He really won't without time, so you will either have to accept how he is now and maybe forever, or leave him. Those are the two options, it doesn't sound like you are compatible. There are men out there who don't do most of that, but I don't think any man (or woman) in the world isn't guilty of looking at a picture of someone on instagram or facebook, and maybe thinking "nice" or "she looks pretty". There is nothing wrong with that, thoughts belong with the person who thinks them, and you can't control how people think, even your husband. I'm married and I don't believe in flirting with other girls, it's hurtful and unneccesary, but I know people out there who do and are in healthy, commited relationships. He may be compatible with someone else, but you are trying to make an O fit into an X here.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Bobby5000 said:


> Women notice as much just different things. I work in an office and lady A notices lady B, comments to the boss about lady B and how lazy she is, then tells lazy B isn't the boss unreasonable and difficult. JUST DO YOUR WORK. Why are you looking at everyone else and worrying about what they are doing. *It is amazing about how much women check, notice, comment, etc*.
> 
> I have an unusual habit. I really don't look at other women too much but when we are at restaurant I am always checking out someone's else's food. My wife says just order what you want but you don't need to be leering at the next table seeing what they have.


That's just an example of a troublemaking idiot, just the same as the OP is giving an example of sexist idiots.

Yes, we all like to generalise a bit, I've noticed plenty of it on TAM, and think it's because of the sexes etc, but I've met all sorts of people, and sometimes their nasty crap is just because they're nasty people.


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## kacy (Jun 30, 2013)

I stopped reading the replies because of some comments I have gotten from some people who are so sexist. Our society is so prgrammed to us all thinking this way that it goes without any objection. Its already part and parcel of how we think. I can't believe how much anger people like PHTLUMP and THESEUS have. I understand in my rant I generalized all men and this is very wrong. Not all are like that and they are right women can be like this too but I dont think it is fair and right to then go on and generalize women and for my husband and his friend to say 1. just because two women we know break up with their BFs and get fit right before, that does not give them a right to generalize all women, saying 'all women do this often'. 2. not all women who go to the gym wear little to no clothing and fake eyelashes and lure men into taking crudely about them. A lot of women go to the gym with a tshirt and no makeup yet are also talked about in this way. NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE OUT THERE SAY, I FEEL AND THIS IS MY PERSPECTIVE, women in general at the gym or in private/public conversations or for that matter media and movies and ads do NOT as frequently as men objectify men. AND PLEASE Strip clubs are NOT as you simply put where men just go and stare at the back. Women come and hit on guys in there all the time in hopes of getting a lapdance, they come and put their hands on your shoulders and sit on your laps, flirt with you, even if you dont get dances, there is still this level of interaction which in my OPINION is inappropriate when you are in a committed relationship. This has been happening since a long time back with Kings and nobility having dancers in Eastern cultures, in victorian times, there were ***** houses that men frequently went to, the same level of outlets are just not there for women because there is a lack of demand. wHY do you think there is a strip of naked strip joints but the women male strip joints are more obscure and few and far in between. why do you think bachelorette parties with men strippers are often times looked at humorously (not ALL NOW DONT GO ON ABOUT HOW THERE ARE parties where women su)ck the guys private parts and all that I know there are some, but a lot of bachelorette parties that i know of in personal experience through friends and friends of friends the sexual arousal and enjoyment is just NOT THE SAME as a guy's.


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## kacy (Jun 30, 2013)

also it is so typical of men to say you show it off so we stare and make comments, the reason for arab women to wear veals from head to toe is so that men are not temped to do something to them did you know that? its because men cannot control themseleves so they have to cover themselves up...how stupid and unfair is that mentality and LAW. 

YOU CAN HAVE DECENCY AND NOT TALK SO STUPIDLY AND CRUDELY ABOUT PEOPLE, YOU CAN LOOK AND FEEL ATTRACTED TO SOMEONE FROM AFAR I AM NOT SAYING MY HUSBAND CANNOT EVER LOOK AT ANOTHER WOMEN BUT HE DOES NOT HAVE TO DO IT SO OBVIOUSLY IN FRONT OF ME OR PARTAKE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH HIS FRIENDS TO OBJECTIFY AND TALK CRUDELY ABOUT OTHER WOMEN IN THE GYM OR WHEREEVER WHEN HE IS IN LOVE WITH ME AND IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. HE CAN JUST LAUGH IT OFF AND NOT SAY ANTHING. AND HE SURE AS HELL DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO A STRIP CLUB WHEN IM SURE HE WILL FEEL JUST AS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ME GOING TO A MALE STRIP CLUB AND LETTING THE GUY RUB HIS SHLONG IN MY FACE OR LAP.


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## magenta (Feb 20, 2014)

Kacy, the title of your post states that you are accepting the behavior you object to. I object to all the behavior you have described, but I don't accept it. I married someone who does not do those things. He doesn't talk that way, he doesn't go to strip clubs and he's not into porn. I've never heard any of his friends talk that way either.

The behavior you are willing to accept is what you will end up with. The choice is yours - continue to accept it with frustration or move on and find someone whose behavior is acceptable to you.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Kacy not all men are like this, there have been some that have replied in this thread. I have never been with a man like this, not even in my younger days.

I have no problem with flirting or telling jokes, porn or my man checking out other women. But he is a respectful, decent man and knows how to behave in a civil manner.
The type you have described are what I refer to as "knuckle scrapers", Neanderthal man. 

I agree with the others that have said that it might be time to set your boundaries and decide if you will or will not put up with this type of man. You can't change him and you should not have to put up with the disrespect so it might be time to make some hard decisions.

At the same time though it might be worth doing some introspection. Are you over reacting? On a scale of 1-10 how bad is the behaviour? Is the behaviour really bad or is it that your tolerance for some things is very low, or a bit of both?

But to reassure you, no not all men are like this. Not all of either gender are a set way.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Why such anger toward men? I mean I know men love to look and stare at women and make comments to women. Why does it bother you so? What issues do you have with your own husband? I only ask because I have been checked out my men and women right in front of my husband but I don't get this angry..:scratchhead:


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

over20 said:


> Why such anger toward men? I mean I know men love to look and stare at women and make comments to women. Why does it bother you so? What issues do you have with your own husband? I only ask because I have been checked out my men and women right in front of my husband but I don't get this angry..:scratchhead:


From what I understood of the OPs post, I think the OP finds what she's having to deal with as inappropriate and demoralizing. It's not just about someone checking her out, that's really so far down the list of 'who cares' as you could get, it's the conversations she's hearing. As someone who was for a time in this type of group of people, it's not so much that they talk about women, it's HOW they talk about women. It basically means she's in with a bad group of people and it's dragging her down.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Kacy, You are letting your man off the hook by trying to believe that it is something all men do and therefore something he cannot help, that there is just something wrong with men. There is nothing wrong with men or women, but their behaviour can be terrible.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

kacy said:


> I stopped reading the replies because of some comments I have gotten from some people who are so sexist. ... I can't believe how much anger people like PHTLUMP and THESEUS have.



:scratchhead: Wow... pot, meet kettle.




> This has been happening since a long time back with Kings and nobility having dancers in Eastern cultures, in victorian times, there were ***** houses that men frequently went to, the same level of outlets are just not there for women because there is a lack of demand. wHY do you think there is a strip of naked strip joints but the women male strip joints are more obscure and few and far in between. why do you think bachelorette parties with men strippers are often times looked at humorously (not ALL NOW DONT GO ON ABOUT HOW THERE ARE parties where women su)ck the guys private parts and all that I know there are some, but a lot of bachelorette parties that i know of in personal experience through friends and friends of friends the sexual arousal and enjoyment is just NOT THE SAME as a guy's.



In your rather haphazard way, you hit the nail on the head here. *Bottom line: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT!* Men are much more visually stimulated than women. 

I'm going to assume here that you are attracted to men and you are not a lesbian. Since you like men, how about enjoying that difference instead of hating men for it? Instead of fighting nature, how about go with it? Because unless you marry a gay or asexual man, your husband is still going to check out other women whether he mentions it or not. 

When we were dating, my wife used to throw a fit whenever I looked at another women, now 20 years later she is very different, much more secure with herself, and we can even openly joke or talk to each other about attractive people we see (both men and women). Guess what? Now we have more fun conversations and fewer fights. Think about that for a moment.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Theseus, I imagine to Kacy that advice sounds like saying she should allow herself to be hurt and degraded.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

My ex and her group of friends were all very respectable and respecting women. Never in public did they act uncouth, at least loudly vocal.

But get them together at our house for a girls night in, with me kicked into my man cave for the night, and you should hear the snuff that came out of thier mouths. It would turn a prostitutes face red.

Truth be told, they were unwinding....and being "girls". In a safe place where they could. I think in some ways ladies aren't that much different. Everyone needs to be thier gender and unwind.

Guys are more stupid, though. They forget theyre in public sometimes and being disrespectful.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

alphaomega said:


> My ex and her group of friends were all very respectable and respecting women. Never in public did they act uncouth, at least loudly vocal.
> 
> But get them together at our house for a girls night in, with me kicked into my man cave for the night, and you should hear the snuff that came out of thier mouths. It would turn a prostitutes face red.
> 
> ...


If we are speaking about the USA, I have the impression that there is rather more pressure for men to act in a stereotypically male fashion. This contradicts the other part of being manly which is not feeling pressured to be someone else.

As a rugby playing Englishman, I was allowed to express my enjoyment of sitting in the bath with a cup of tea, but an American man might not have had the same leeway. An insecure American man would feel even more pressure.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

seems to me that men are programed (for a lack of a better term) to desire women on their looks and most women are programed to desire men based on social status.

right wrong or indifferent dosen't matter.

what matters is that you comunicate and accept some fundamentals differences.

with that said at some point if its really disturbing to you you could make this a deal breaker and look for someone who is not this way.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kacy said:


> I stopped reading the replies because of some comments I have gotten from some people who are so sexist.


You think acknowledging and accepting biological differences between the sexes is sexist? As Inigo Montoya would say, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."



> I can't believe how much anger people like PHTLUMP and THESEUS have.


On the contrary. I'm not angry. I'm here to help. And I think the most helpful thing to do for you is not to give you advice on how you can force your husband to hide and/or deny his biological urges, but on how you can accept the differences between men and women. If you can accept those differences, then men exhibiting masculine behavior won't be so upsetting to you.



> ... I dont think it is fair and right to then go on and generalize women and for my husband and his friend to say 1. just because two women we know break up with their BFs and get fit right before, that does not give them a right to generalize all women, saying 'all women do this often'.


If they were, indeed, arguing that all women prepare for their breakups by getting in shape, then they would be wrong. Some women do.



> 2. not all women who go to the gym wear little to no clothing and fake eyelashes and lure men into taking crudely about them. A lot of women go to the gym with a tshirt and no makeup yet are also talked about in this way.


I never wrote that all women dress sexy to go to the gym. Why do you assume that's what I meant? Did you do the same thing with your husband's statements about your girlfriends? Did he say that some women prepare for breakups, but you interpreted that he meant all women prepare for breakups? If so, you should work on misinterpreting people's statements.

And yes, some women go to the gym in baggy sweatpants. But those aren't the women that men talk about. There's usually plenty of women dressed in super-tight yoga pants and a sports bra. Those are the women that will be talked about.



> NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE OUT THERE SAY, I FEEL AND THIS IS MY PERSPECTIVE, women in general at the gym or in private/public conversations or for that matter media and movies and ads do NOT as frequently as men objectify men.


I FEEEL like you're correct. And you don't even have to trust my feeelings, or your own. Scientists have proven that men and women have different brain chemistry. The connections don't work the same. Men objectify women more than women objectify men. Or, at least in different ways. It probably has to do with hormonal differences between men and women. Most people aren't bothered by this fact.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

this situation is exasperated when the female is not secure in their appearance. If they have weight issues or some other less desirable attributes you could see how a guy using porn or looking other women up would be hurtful.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> this situation is exasperated when the female is not secure in their appearance. If they have weight issues or some other less desirable attributes you could see how a guy using porn or looking other women up would be hurtful.


Chilly morn can I add "if they are not secure in their relationship with their Dh" also has a negative effect on one's view.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I censor my life. I don't go places I don't enjoy. It's a big world. 
The funny thing is, I enjoy places where I know guys are looking and thinking what they think. But, I can think what I think too, and say back to them whatever I please, in my mind. (When they are fat and slimy it's not pleasant.)

All of this is a kind of censoring. It's a shaping of your world to be the way you want it to be. Working out at the gym? Set your boundaries. Make sure the men aren't using that kind of language around you. Most gyms have policies, make sure the one you go to enforces it. 

Me, when I went to a gym, I usually worked out with the old folks. It was great. Nobody used foul language or made sexist comments, and they were very encouraging for me to work out (I was fit, but recovering from physical setbacks...also dealing with some challenges with my kids' health...)

You need to choose better whom you spend time with, and your environment. You can't go around patrolling the world. It's just as brutal as it's always been. The longer you stay in it the more you realize you need to create your own pocket of reality, and defend its boundaries.

If my guy friends go too far in admiring my self in appearances, I tell them to shhhhh, keep it to themselves but thanks for the compliment. I cut them off before they can say things that will damage our relationship, and they know I do this because I value the friendship. It's a 2-way street, you have to have boundaries and be clear about them.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Tonight I'm just tired and I wanted to say something, but I didn't know where to look for what I wanted. this looked close so at the serious risk of thread hijacking here goes.
I'm also sick and tired of male stereotypes. I'm fed up with manning up. I'm tired of not having needs. If I have unmet needs, then why shouldn't I be "needy". I know it's unattractive to all you real women but at this point I could care less. 
I don't want to see how much you can spend on attracting my gaze. I don't care. I'm not looking at you, I'm not thinking about you. I suppose this is equally offensive. Today, at least, This is where I am.
MN


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Why do you people do this? Check the freakin' date please!!!!


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