# Fat spouse and divorce



## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I could see that. My H is above the 20% gain. we've been working. On our issues for a while and just started to see meaningful connecting. Hardly a reason to ditch. A marriage just cause they got fat, all else being. Still good. But people who are making a good marriage and enjoying life Dont usually become fat... Hmmm cart/horse?


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I could see that. My H is above the 20% gain. we've been working. On our issues for a while and just started to see meaningful connecting. Hardly a reason to ditch. A marriage just cause they got fat, all else being. Still good. But people who are making a good marriage and enjoying life Dont usually become fat... Hmmm cart/horse?



I think people in good marriages gain weight. A lot of people are naturally thin when they are younger. When one ages the metabolism slows down and a lot of people find that it is a lot harder to stay thin as they age.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

curlysue321 said:


> Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


This is nothing unusual. Gaining weight usually comes with changes of lifestyle which is not always agreeable with the other party.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I wasn't referring to the typical filling out, the usual weight gain. I was referring to being 50-75 pound heavier that when we got married. Going from a youthful skinny to middle age full is normal. Going from a youthful buff to middle age obese is not.


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## Buildingblocks (Apr 22, 2012)

Just goes to shoe how shallow people are becoming in these times.


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## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

"more likely" is so lame **** vague as to render it meaningless. 

If someone lacks self-respect, energy and action to take care of business then of course they are "more likely" to be dissed. 

Captain Obvious is nor a super hero


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Buildingblocks said:


> Just goes to shoe how shallow people are becoming in these times.


I wholeheartedly beg to differ. Are you or have you been in that situation? I am, and my marriage is getting ready to become one of those statistics. 

Let me also add that significant weight gain is almost always linked with other issues in the marriage...chronic depression, low energy, lack of motivation, decrease in shared fun/entertainment, negative impacts on sex...I could go on and on.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

87% of serial killers have eaten carrots at least once in their lives.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

When people gain a lot of weight for 'no reason at all,' there's usually a reason in there somewhere. 

If I was in a relationship with someone who gradually started gaining a lot of weight and not taking care of themselves, I'd be more interested in finding out why and trying to help them get back on track, rather than serving them with divorce papers.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> When people gain a lot of weight for 'no reason at all,' there's usually a reason in there somewhere.
> 
> If I was in a relationship with someone who gradually started gaining a lot of weight and not taking care of themselves, I'd be more interested in finding out why and trying to help them get back on track, rather than serving them with divorce papers.


In my case it's not "rather than"...I did try, I pushed him to see a doctor, I helped him deal with the side effects of his medications for his Bipolar 2, I researched doctors, psychiatrists, everything to help him get the best care possible. I encouraged him to go to IC. I did the dishes, laundry, yard work, bills, housekeeping, cooking, appointments, caring for our son, working full time, while he slept on the couch for hours everyday after work and on weekends. I kept a stiff upper lip when I was exhausted beyond description, physically and emotionally, because he needed me to be strong. 

All of that I did to help him care for himself and get better. Instead he got fatter and thought nothing more of what I did for him than what what a "good wife" naturally should do. So I have exhausted all options as far as it depends on me. I'm done.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> In my case it's not "rather than"...I did try, I pushed him to see a doctor, I helped him deal with the side effects of his medications for his Bipolar 2, I researched doctors, psychiatrists, everything to help him get the best care possible. I encouraged him to go to IC. I did the dishes, laundry, yard work, bills, housekeeping, cooking, appointments, caring for our son, working full time, while he slept on the couch for hours everyday after work and on weekends. I kept a stiff upper lip when I was exhausted beyond description, physically and emotionally, because he needed me to be strong.
> 
> All of that I did to help him care for himself and get better. Instead he got fatter and thought nothing more of what I did for him than what what a "good wife" naturally should do. So I have exhausted all options as far as it depends on me. I'm done.


Yes, you have exhausted the options FOR YOU. I, too, am dealing with a spouse who is on medications for Bipolar 2 (not officially dx with bipolar 2, but bipolar for sure), anxiety, add, and now he is getting physical therapy for his back. In his case, he HAS been seeing IC from the start. He has gained a significant amount of weight... I believe around 70 pounds, and he was overweight to begin with. 

I do the cleaning, cooking, dealing with the kids. He was sleeping all the time, for the longest time. But his weight gain and all that certainly haven't propelled me toward divorce court. Far from it. Like Cosmos said, I am more interested in getting him better than pushing him out the door. 

Weight gain, in and of itself, isn't a good reason for divorce. But that's just my opinion, I know.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> When people gain a lot of weight for 'no reason at all,' there's usually a reason in there somewhere.
> 
> If I was in a relationship with someone who gradually started gaining a lot of weight and not taking care of themselves, I'd be more interested in finding out why and trying to help them get back on track, rather than serving them with divorce papers.


Okay, so following your train of thought...

Spouse has gained 25 in first five years. Works a lot, marriage growing distant as a result of not spending enough time together. No activities are started, no increase in effort to eat better. Conversation about weight gain, concern expressed, desire to be more healthy expressed, marriage continues to drift. 

Ten years later and another 25 pounds, same conversation, same suggestions for activities, work outs, same agreement, do more eat less. Same effort in marriage, coasting to a stand still. 

Up to twenty five years together, all conversations, support offered, ideas discussed, doctors consulted, same effort-meaning nothing more than lip service, same result, more weight gain.

Now here we are at 28 years and 75 pounds and a mile apart in terms of connection. 

Can you not see where a spouse can wonder why they should stay with someone who refuses to respond? Can you not see that the weight is actually just a symptom of extreme detachment? A spouse cannot force the other to get back into life. But after so many years of trying at some point you have to decide if this spouse, who has checked out of the marriage and even life, is this what you want to be with the rest of your life? No, the answer is no. Shallow, has nothing what so ever to do with a spouse wanting a full and vibrant life. Having a spouse with a buff body would be fabulous but I'd much rather he have a buff mind and energetic engagement in the relationship. I don't expect or even want buff, just healthy.

Please understand this isn't about "he's fat so I'm out of here." This is because he's given up on life on the relationship, on everything and if he wants to end his days passively watching TV, it won't be me sitting next to him.

My marriage is working it's way back. We've come a long way in the past two years, but there is still a long way to go and losing weight is part of the deal. I want a partner not an invalid.

And the same goes for men who's wives have gained and gained to the point where the shut themselves off from the life around them. Where they can't go to amusement parks cause they can't fit on the rides. I'm not talking about being a size 2 or even a 12, but a size 22 probably not getting on a horse, or a roller coaster, or going for a hike, snorkeling, kayaking, rock climbing. There's a whole world of fun stuff we tend to put off raising kids and when they're gone, both spouses need to be healthy enough to go do it!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay, so following your train of thought...
> 
> Spouse has gained 25 in first five years. Works a lot, marriage growing distant as a result of not spending enough time together. No activities are started, no increase in effort to eat better. Conversation about weight gain, concern expressed, desire to be more healthy expressed, marriage continues to drift.
> 
> ...


I'll be sure to bring this up to my own husband... oh, and ask my parents why they stuck together when they were both working all the time and had a lot of weight gain (just celebrated 39th anniversary in October). Sorry, but no, I agree with Cosmos, still.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> In my case it's not "rather than"...I did try, I pushed him to see a doctor, I helped him deal with the side effects of his medications for his Bipolar 2, I researched doctors, psychiatrists, everything to help him get the best care possible. I encouraged him to go to IC. I did the dishes, laundry, yard work, bills, housekeeping, cooking, appointments, caring for our son, working full time, while he slept on the couch for hours everyday after work and on weekends. I kept a stiff upper lip when I was exhausted beyond description, physically and emotionally, because he needed me to be strong.
> 
> All of that I did to help him care for himself and get better. Instead he got fatter and thought nothing more of what I did for him than what what a "good wife" naturally should do. So I have exhausted all options as far as it depends on me. I'm done.


Mental health issues impact not only on the sufferer but those around them, and it sounds as though you're exhausted from trying to help your H with nothing to show for it... It's difficult to continue being someone else's pillar of strength when their illness is impacting on you to such an extent...

Did your H go for IC? Would it help for you to speak to the counselor and tell him/her that you're having difficulties in coping with your H's illness? Has your H discussed the possibility with his doctor that the meds might be helping him to pile on the weight?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Yes, you have exhausted the options FOR YOU. I, too, am dealing with a spouse who is on medications for Bipolar 2 (not officially dx with bipolar 2, but bipolar for sure), anxiety, add, and now he is getting physical therapy for his back. In his case, he HAS been seeing IC from the start. He has gained a significant amount of weight... I believe around 70 pounds, and he was overweight to begin with.
> 
> I do the cleaning, cooking, dealing with the kids. He was sleeping all the time, for the longest time. But his weight gain and all that certainly haven't propelled me toward divorce court. Far from it. Like Cosmos said, I am more interested in getting him better than pushing him out the door.
> 
> Weight gain, in and of itself, isn't a good reason for divorce. But that's just my opinion, I know.


Maricha, I'm very happy that you are content with your marriage. I don't recall anyone judging you for sticking around. We all agree that weight gain, exclusive of anything else, is not a reason to leave. What wakinguptolife and I are talking about is that the weight, is only a symptom. A symptom the spouse uses as an excuse to be disengaged (in my case) and or selfish (in waking up's case) and not do their part to groom the marriage. Clearly your husband is grooming your marriage well enough to keep you happy. Ours, isn't and ours hasn't and we've decided enough is enough.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> And the same goes for men who's wives have gained and gained to the point where the shut themselves off from the life around them. Where they can't go to amusement parks cause they can't fit on the rides. I'm not talking about being a size 2 or even a 12, but a size 22 probably not getting on a horse, or a roller coaster, or going for a hike, snorkeling, kayaking, rock climbing. There's a whole world of fun stuff we tend to put off raising kids and when they're gone, both spouses need to be healthy enough to go do it!


Also, I just wanted to add that I wasn't size 22, but size THIRTY-TWO when I went with my parents, my husband, and my oldest son to Disney World before I had weight loss surgery. I was able to go on all the rides I WANTED to go on. The only ones I chose NOT to go on are the ones that lift you off the ground. And it isn't because of weight. It is a fear of heights that I have had since I was a child. 

Now, I lost 200 pounds from my surgery, but have gained some back and am looking at getting the excess skin removed to make it easier to move around. I haven't been a size 22 since I was about 20 years old. I was never into the activities you mentioned: kayaking, snorkeling, etc. even when I was smaller. Those were never activities I enjoyed. So, honestly, things like that would offer no motivation for me. 

Ugh! Anyway, the whole amusement park rides argument is nonsense. Even at over 400 pounds, I was able to go on them. The only thing I agree with in your post is that it would behoove spouses to get healthy.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Yes, you have exhausted the options FOR YOU. I, too, am dealing with a spouse who is on medications for Bipolar 2 (not officially dx with bipolar 2, but bipolar for sure), anxiety, add, and now he is getting physical therapy for his back. In his case, he HAS been seeing IC from the start. He has gained a significant amount of weight... I believe around 70 pounds, and he was overweight to begin with.
> 
> I do the cleaning, cooking, dealing with the kids. He was sleeping all the time, for the longest time. But his weight gain and all that certainly haven't propelled me toward divorce court. Far from it. Like Cosmos said, I am more interested in getting him better than pushing him out the door.
> 
> Weight gain, in and of itself, isn't a good reason for divorce. But that's just my opinion, I know.


Weight gain, as in I want a divorce because the scale has gone up "X" number of pounds, isn't a good reason for divorce. The point is that the weight gain CAUSES so many other issues within the marriage. It's not about the weight as much as it is about the profound effect it has on the lifestyle of BOTH marriage partners. My H despises physical activity. He can't do things that we used to like to do, like explore caves, go hiking, go on roller coasters, etc. Terrible consequences on our sex life. I've talked about this ad nauseum in other threads. If he were TRYING to lose weight, showing an effort in getting healthier, of course I'd be right there with him. But if he won't, if he just gives up on life and figures this is "how it is", that's not fair to me or my son. I don't have to stick around watching him kill himself slowly.


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## LostandSad (Feb 13, 2013)

Is there a study on baldness? Do men lose their spouses when they become bald? After all, if they married before they lost their hair, and they changed, doesn't the wife have justification for divorcing them since the physical model has changed?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Anon Pink said:- Please understand this isn't about "he's fat so I'm out of here." This is because he's given up on life on the relationship, on everything and if he wants to end his days passively watching TV, it won't be me sitting next to him.
> 
> My marriage is working it's way back. We've come a long way in the past two years, but there is still a long way to go and losing weight is part of the deal. I want a partner not an invalid.


I think it's slightly different when you've spent literally years trying to help someone get back on track, as you have, to no avail... It sounds like your H has allowed himself to drift into an unhealthy lifestyle and, quite understandably, it's not a lifestyle you want to share.

At the stage you are at right now, I don't believe that it's at all unreasonable for a spouse to issue an ultimatum.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LostandSad said:


> Is there a study on baldness? Do men lose their spouses when they become bald? After all, if they married before they lost their hair, and they changed, doesn't the wife have justification for divorcing them since the physical model has changed?


Yes, I believe it said something about bald men being experts at certain sex acts women find devastatingly effective. But only the wives uninterested in sex divorced. The wives who loved sex became very pleased and they lived happily ever after!


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Re: Fat spouse and divorce*



LostandSad said:


> Is there a study on baldness? Do men lose their spouses when they become bald? After all, if they married before they lost their hair, and they changed, doesn't the wife have justification for divorcing them since the physical model has changed?


You can't control balding. But you can control weight in most cases.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I think it's slightly different when you've spent literally years trying to help someone get back on track, as you have, to no avail... It sounds like your H has allowed himself to drift into an unhealthy lifestyle and, quite understandably, it's not a lifestyle you want to share.
> 
> At the stage you are at right now, I don't believe that it's at all unreasonable for a spouse to issue an ultimatum.


I can understand if the spouse is unwilling to take steps to even TRY to improve his or her quality of life. However, I was terrified to go under the knife, even when I was 408 the day I gave birth to my oldest son via c-section. The OB had a nurse come in and talk to me about weight loss surgery... bad timing for that talk, after having major surgery already, and in pain! But eventually, after exhausting all other options my doctor and I could come up with, I chose surgery. But it took two years to get to that point. And my husband still stood by me. Which is what I am doing now... helping HIM go through all the possibilities to lose weight. And yes, his weight gain is from his medications. 

But, as Anon and Waking both stated, they have exhausted their options (I would guess it has been many years), and their husbands are not even slightly open to fixing themselves. I can't fault that. But initial "20% weight gain = more likely to divorce" leaves a large opening... and there are SOME who would use that as an excuse to just get out without trying to fix anything. That's what bothers me... those who just choose to give up without trying to help their spouses.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Maricha said:- But, as Anon and Waking both stated, they have exhausted their options (I would guess it has been many years), and their husbands are not even slightly open to fixing themselves. I can't fault that. But initial "20% weight gain = more likely to divorce" leaves a large opening... and there are SOME who would use that as an excuse to just get out without trying to fix anything. That's what bothers me... those who just choose to give up without trying to help their spouses.


:iagree:

There's a big difference.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> That's what bothers me... those who just choose to give up without trying to help their spouses.


*That* is what bothers everyone.

Maricha, congrats to you on your weight loss surgery and subsequent weight loss! I'm sure that was scary, it's a very serious surgery! How stupid of that nurse to talk to you just after a C section!! 

I bet you are excited about the skin removal. Old friend of the family had it done. I didn't even recognize her, and she just glowed from happiness!

I'm glad we've worked out this misunderstanding. Thanks for hanging in there with us.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Mental health issues impact not only on the sufferer but those around them, and it sounds as though you're exhausted from trying to help your H with nothing to show for it... It's difficult to continue being someone else's pillar of strength when their illness is impacting on you to such an extent...
> 
> Did your H go for IC? Would it help for you to speak to the counselor and tell him/her that you're having difficulties in coping with your H's illness? Has your H discussed the possibility with his doctor that the meds might be helping him to pile on the weight?


My H went for IC several years ago at my urging. He went for a few sessions alone, then the psychologist asked him to bring me and our son. We did that for a few times, then all the sudden my H tells me he's not going back anymore b/c he felt like he was getting blamed for things that weren't his fault. More recently, I started IC on my own (had to hide it from him for a while b/c he didn't want me to go...said all they'll do is tell me I should "find myself" and get divorced). I did convince him to go to MC twice with me. Not a lot of progress; haven't been able to schedule a session for a few weeks now b/c of our schedules and my H has never said a word about if/when I'm going to schedule another appt. He's hoping I'll just forget all about it. 

As for his meds causing him to gain weight...nope. He started gaining a lot of weight way before I ever got him to go to the doctor for his depression and Bipolar. He took meds for several years, put on a few more pounds at the same rate he was already gaining previously. He stopped taking his meds last July because he felt they didn't do any good and made him "fat". So it's been 7 months since he stopped and he weighs exactly the same.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> As for his meds causing him to gain weight...nope. He started gaining a lot of weight way before I ever got him to go to the doctor for his depression and Bipolar. He took meds for several years, put on a few more pounds at the same rate he was already gaining previously. He stopped taking his meds last July because he felt they didn't do any good and made him "fat". So it's been 7 months since he stopped and he weighs exactly the same.


I would think your husband having bp and not taking medication would be a much bigger issue than his weight. I have bp and I wouldn't dream of going off my medication because I know if I get sick not only will I suffer, but it will make those that care about me suffer as well. 

Not all medication is the same. I have been on medication that has caused dramatic weight gain. I refuse to take it. There are bp medications that do not cause weight gain like lamotrigine (caused weight loss in both me and my mom), Topamax which is an anticonvulsant used as a mood stabilizer in bp. Topamax is being investigated as a weight loss drug because so many people experience weight loss as a side effect on this drug. I am currently on Geodon and I am at my ideal weight and have not experienced weight gain on this med. Not all meds are the same! Your husband needs to see his psychiatrist and tell him that weight gain is not an acceptable side effect for him and find a med that does not cause weight gain. 

I put my exhusband through hell until I was stabilized on meds. The damage was already done and it was too late to save my marriage. I will never quit fighting this disease and will use every resource available to me to stay well. Your husband owes you that. If he is not willing to help himself then it is time to move on.


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## 28down (Feb 26, 2013)

gaining weight is almost natural, but you have to work together to find ways to keep it off. Can affect everything!


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

When I was growing up, nobody every talked about weight. 

There were hardly any overweight kids either because they were all out playing outside inside of parked in front of a computer or tv.

My parents were rail thin and they gained weight over the years; maybe around 70 pounds each. It was never an issue. Most of my friend's parent were overweight too.

It seems rather shallow to divorce over weight unless they got homebound and couldn't get out of the bed and wouldn't do anything about it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Tigger said:


> When I was growing up, nobody every talked about weight.
> 
> There were hardly any overweight kids either because they were all out playing outside inside of parked in front of a computer or tv.
> 
> ...


Shallow? It seems shallow to me that a once fit person becomes unfit because they become lazy. So the spouse should just claim to be attracted to them as they are, size be damned? Come on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I see lots of fat married people. and I have noticed a fair few fat brides. So I'm not sure how much of a dealbreaker it really is.

the other thing that I chuckle about these days is that many 20 and 30 something women are pretty fat....... making us older ladies rather attractive.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Then call me shallow. 

And I'll say something that most will think is even shallower. I think it's selfish when a spouse gains weight excessively due to an unhealthy lifestyle. Obesity has been linked to so many health problems and early death that to ignore it is to steal time away from your own future, time that you could be spending growing old with your spouse, playing with your kids, etc.

If my W were to suddenly gain two hundred pounds due to unhealthy lifestyle, I would do whatever I could to help her. Exercising, cooking all the meals, counseling, hell, even surgery if need be.

But how long do you keep that up if the other spouse has absolutely no desire to change? How long do you watch them slowly but willingly destroy themselves?

I don't mean to offend, and I apologize in advance if any of that hits a nerve. But I'm going through that with my parents and my brother. They're all obese (my dad is morbidly obese), they all have severe health problems, and talking to any of them about being healthier just falls on deaf ears. It's like watching a car wreck in slow motion, and it's depressing to me to know that they increasing their chances for severe health complications just for that extra bowl of ice cream every night.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Shallow? It seems shallow to me that a once fit person becomes unfit because they become lazy. So the spouse should just claim to be attracted to them as they are, size be damned? Come on.


Most of us don't gain weight because we're lazy, we gain weight because it's hard not to when you're busy living. All that time we had for activity when we were young is now spent on earning a living and raising a family. Combine that with high calorie high food availability, and you have a recipe that makes weight maintenance just one more thing you have to actively do in an already busy day.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Most of us don't gain weight because we're lazy, we gain weight because it's hard not to when you're busy living. All that time we had for activity when we were young is now spent on earning a living and raising a family. Combine that with high calorie high food availability, and you have a recipe that makes weight maintenance just one more thing you have to actively do in an already busy day.


The "busy life" explanation is just another bad excuse in a long list of bad excuses. People love trying to paint weight loss, or lack of weight gain, as some impossible task that requires hours and hours of work every day. Bull crap. It takes no more effort to eat lean chicken breast than it does to shovel down a hamburger. And people can't spare a half hour three times a week to exercise? I don't buy it. It's a laziness problem, plain and simple (and yes, a few people have legit medical problems, blah blah blah...a few.)


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Shallow? It seems shallow to me that a once fit person becomes unfit because they become lazy. So the spouse should just claim to be attracted to them as they are, size be damned? Come on.


Hard for some people to comprehend but they were happily married for 50 years so it worked for them.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Cletus said:


> Most of us don't gain weight because we're lazy, we gain weight because it's hard not to when you're busy living. All that time we had for activity when we were young is now spent on earning a living and raising a family. Combine that with high calorie high food availability, and you have a recipe that makes weight maintenance just one more thing you have to actively do in an already busy day.


I've been to the US and I can't imagine how anyone can stay thin with the huge portion sizes, vast amounts of junk food, having to drive everywhere.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

There is definitely an issue with lifestyle here as Tigger noted. Also, as in my family, there is somewhat of a genetic tendency for people to gain weight easily. I am very tiny (5'0") and was always under 100 lbs in high school. After I got married, I did start putting on some weight very gradually. One day, I saw my mom sitting right next to her sister and their mother. They were nearly identical in size: 5' tall, heavy set (probably around 200 lbs), same body shape. It was like a lightbulb turned on in my head. I thought to myself, 'I don't want to end up like that. I'm NOT going there.' So I lit a fire under my own ass, went to the doctor to get my health checked out, started to eat healthier, etc. Eventually I lost 35 lbs and I've maintained my 115 lbs for about 10 years now. I work out with the Insanity DVDs, I look awesome . I made a conscious decision NOT to allow myself to chalk my weight gain up to genetics. I still have to work at it to keep it off, but I've done it. 

My H, on the other hand, has gradually gained 120 lbs or so since we got married. He is by far the biggest of all of his family. All of his brothers, who are in their 50's, are trim and in decent shape. My H constantly talks about how he hates being fat, constantly berates himself for his weight, says he's "old" (he's 42). Yet he does nothing about it. He hates being so big, he hates how he feels, yet takes no action. His attitude and his weight have such a negative impact on our marriage, yet he fails to do anything about that either. It makes me feel like he must not appreciate me very much to allow himself to carry on that way when I work so hard to stay looking good for him.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> There is definitely an issue with lifestyle here as Tigger noted. Also, as in my family, there is somewhat of a genetic tendency for people to gain weight easily. I am very tiny (5'0") and was always under 100 lbs in high school. After I got married, I did start putting on some weight very gradually. One day, I saw my mom sitting right next to her sister and their mother. They were nearly identical in size: 5' tall, heavy set (probably around 200 lbs), same body shape. It was like a lightbulb turned on in my head. I thought to myself, 'I don't want to end up like that. I'm NOT going there.' So I lit a fire under my own ass, went to the doctor to get my health checked out, started to eat healthier, etc. Eventually I lost 35 lbs and I've maintained my 115 lbs for about 10 years now. I work out with the Insanity DVDs, I look awesome . I made a conscious decision NOT to allow myself to chalk my weight gain up to genetics. I still have to work at it to keep it off, but I've done it.
> 
> My H, on the other hand, has gradually gained 120 lbs or so since we got married. He is by far the biggest of all of his family. All of his brothers, who are in their 50's, are trim and in decent shape. My H constantly talks about how he hates being fat, constantly berates himself for his weight, says he's "old" (he's 42). Yet he does nothing about it. He hates being so big, he hates how he feels, yet takes no action. His attitude and his weight have such a negative impact on our marriage, yet he fails to do anything about that either. It makes me feel like he must not appreciate me very much to allow himself to carry on that way when I work so hard to stay looking good for him.


I actually agree with you... now that I understand a bit more 
He SAYS he hates it, but fights every possibility of CHANGING it. It's one thing to be scared of certain options, but to just completely give up is a different story.

Yes, I was almost 500 pounds. Yes, I was scared of surgery, even after trying other options. Yes, I was more scared of dying. Yes, I have gained back some of the weight I lost. Yes, I am trying to make healthier choices...not just for myself, but for the rest of the family as well. But that's the difference... it appears WUTL, that your husband has given up... and, even if you still love him very much, watching him slowly kill himself is not an option... and it MAY kick start him into fixing himself. But I get it... now.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> My H, on the other hand, has gradually gained 120 lbs or so since we got married. He is by far the biggest of all of his family. All of his brothers, who are in their 50's, are trim and in decent shape. My H constantly talks about how he hates being fat, constantly berates himself for his weight, says he's "old" (he's 42). Yet he does nothing about it. He hates being so big, he hates how he feels, yet takes no action. His attitude and his weight have such a negative impact on our marriage, yet he fails to do anything about that either. It makes me feel like he must not appreciate me very much to allow himself to carry on that way when I work so hard to stay looking good for him.


Same story here, only with the sexes reversed. My wife knows she's overweight, complains about it, cries about it.....just doesn't DO anything about it. I've tried everything and nothing works. I've basically just accepted it at this point.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

hawkeye said:


> Same story here, only with the sexes reversed. My wife knows she's overweight, complains about it, cries about it.....just doesn't DO anything about it. I've tried everything and nothing works. I've basically just accepted it at this point.


I am sorry Hawkeye. This is an even more delicate situation when women gain weight, cause you can't go through pregnancy without gaining and that weight doesn't always come off.

Assuming your expectations for her weight are reasonable, have you tried to engage her in activities that are active? Just going for walks or hikes. maybe a bike ride followed by a picnic? Also, unlike men, a woman's body image will destroy her ability to even try. Reassuring her of your love as you hold her hand and walk her out the door for a brisk walk 4 times a week might be a good starting point?


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I am sorry Hawkeye. This is an even more delicate situation when women gain weight, cause you can't go through pregnancy without gaining and that weight doesn't always come off.
> 
> Assuming your expectations for her weight are reasonable, have you tried to engage her in activities that are active? Just going for walks or hikes. maybe a bike ride followed by a picnic? Also, unlike men, a woman's body image will destroy her ability to even try. Reassuring her of your love as you hold her hand and walk her out the door for a brisk walk 4 times a week might be a good starting point?


Yeah, I've seen this advice a million times (not that I don't appreciate your effort). I've also tried it a million times with her. It's like she's allergic to effort. If an iphone and TV counted as exercise, she'd be the fittest person on the planet.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> 87% of serial killers have eaten carrots at least once in their lives.


Me likely the carrots. :smthumbup:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

hawkeye said:


> The "busy life" explanation is just another bad excuse in a long list of bad excuses. People love trying to paint weight loss, or lack of weight gain, as some impossible task that requires hours and hours of work every day. Bull crap. It takes no more effort to eat lean chicken breast than it does to shovel down a hamburger. And people can't spare a half hour three times a week to exercise? I don't buy it. It's a laziness problem, plain and simple (and yes, a few people have legit medical problems, blah blah blah...a few.)


So if I come home every night after work, 5 nights a week for six years and coach the two soccer teams my children are on, does that make me lazy?

Or for the nearly two years it took to build an 1800 square foot addition on our house, giving up every single weekend and most weeknights, am I lazy? 

Yeah, I eat more than I probably should. Bad habits learned when you're young and thin can be hard to break. So sure I have to take responsibility for my caloric balance, and for me eating good food is one of the great joys in life. 

But I am NOT lazy.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So if I come home every night after work, 5 nights a week for six years and coach the two soccer teams my children are on, does that make me lazy?
> 
> Or for the nearly two years it took to build an 1800 square foot addition on our house, giving up every single weekend and most weeknights, am I lazy?
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're plenty active then. Just stop eating so much. That's not a "busy life" problem.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

hawkeye said:


> Yeah, I've seen this advice a million times (not that I don't appreciate your effort). I've also tried it a million times with her. It's like she's allergic to effort. If an iphone and TV counted as exercise, she'd be the fittest person on the planet.


Well the Hawkeye, you are in the same boat WakingUpToLife and I are in.

For me, his weight is not a deal breaker, so long as our other issues continue to improve. I laid down the plain talk over a week ago. See my post about it here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/67605-he-keeps-gaining-gaining.html

It has made an impact and he has changed his eating habits. 

WakingUpToLife has decided it is a deal breaker and plans to leave. She has done all she can.

Since you have already tried all the indirect and comforting ways to get your wife healthy, you now must make a choice. Make her weight, her lack of healthy eating habits a serious issue that you will not rest on. Is this a deal breaker choice or is this something you plan to make a serious issue over so that she either outright refuses, thus making you make another choice, or she actually gets her butt in gear and starts taking her health seriously.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm just going to come out and say it. Some of you are incredibly insensitive and dare I say it, just flat out uninformed about weight issues. I appologize for the mini-jack, but there are a lot of very active people that eat right AND STILL GAIN WEIGHT. It's not unheard of.

And I completely agree with Cletus. It can be difficult transitioning from a life of little responsibility, to one where there is barely any time in a day to just breathe. From 9 hour work days 2 hour commutes, making dinner for the kids, getting them bathed, homework done and put to bed. Cleaning up the house...than yourself. Not to mention house projects (I suck but I try), soccer, dance class, gymnastics, school trips..etc etc etc.

They are not excuses. Ultimately one MUST find a way to squeeze in the time to exercise, a fact that I am now trying to adhere to. But it's the chest thumping, brazen attitude of some about this issue that just rubs me the wrong way.

And I know that I'm an oddball but when my wife was 125 pounds and played club soccer I was attracted to her. When she had my two kids and gain a considerable amount of weight (we had huge kids..my genetics) I was still attracted to her. When she started losing a lot of that weight....same answer. It doesn't necessarily mean I love her more than anybody else loves there spouse, but I would feel like absolute crap if my spouse left me JUST because of the weight gain.

Now I know OP's situation is different. And I actually agree with her. When you have tried for the better part of 25 years to get your husband to be healthy and he doesn't make a solid sustained effort, I can see how that can be relationship kryptonite.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> I think people in good marriages gain weight. A lot of people are naturally thin when they are younger. When one ages the metabolism slows down and a lot of people find that it is a lot harder to stay thin as they age.


I have been married 18 years (then 34 years of age), I was 145 lbs, same height (obviously), waist size 28... yes, I went through years of letting myself go a bit. But, now at age 52, I am 150 lbs, back to 28 size waist, BP 118/62, resting HR 55, all my blood test are within normal range (although my doctor wants me to bring my cholesterol count down to 150 or below, currently 195). I exercise daily, we eat healthy as a family. My wife is not that much different in her fitness level as well. 

Yes, with age you do lose some of your metabolic edge, etc., but that is no excuse. In fact, I would say it is irresponsible and selfish to just let yourself 'go'. This would not necessarily be for hedonistic reasons, but simply for reasons of health. 

If I just let myself 'go', I am essentially saying to my wife, "it is all about me... take me the way I am". Also I am playing with the greater statistical chance that she is required to care for my deteriorating health because I am not responsible enough to at least try to maintain my own health. 

For me it is not about staying thin and beautiful. I am 52 my wife is 50, I am attracted to my wife because I know she cares enough about me to take care of herself. I am not looking for that 28 year old hottie that I married 18 years ago (although, I still think she is a hottie ), but I am looking for someone who shares my values of health. 

So I think people in great marriages take care of their health. Being 20-year-old thin and young is not possible, but staying healthy is possible.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm just going to come out and say it. Some of you are incredibly insensitive and dare I say it, just flat out uninformed about weight issues. I appologize for the mini-jack, but there are a lot of very active people that eat right AND STILL GAIN WEIGHT. It's not unheard of.


It's not unheard of, but it's also not common. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary doesn't overrule the mountains of scientific literature regarding diet, exercise, and weight loss.



sinnister said:


> But it's the chest thumping, brazen attitude of some about this issue that just rubs me the wrong way.


I don't speak for anyone else, but for me and my W, I don't necessarily care what her weight is, it's just very important to me that she takes care of her body by eating well and exercising. In fact, in the six weeks that she's been running with me, she hasn't lost any weight, but she's already looking better and feeling the effects of our joint positive lifestyle change. She's feeling better about her body, happier, more confident, and that's what's important to me. That she's already lost two percentage points of body fat is just a bonus.

What I was referring to are spouses who willfully treat their bodies poorly with terrible lifestyle choices.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I'm just going to come out and say it. Some of you are incredibly insensitive and dare I say it, just flat out uninformed about weight issues. I appologize for the mini-jack, but there are a lot of very active people that eat right AND STILL GAIN WEIGHT. It's not unheard of.
> 
> And I completely agree with Cletus. It can be difficult transitioning from a life of little responsibility, to one where there is barely any time in a day to just breathe. From 9 hour work days 2 hour commutes, making dinner for the kids, getting them bathed, homework done and put to bed. Cleaning up the house...than yourself. Not to mention house projects (I suck but I try), soccer, dance class, gymnastics, school trips..etc etc etc.
> 
> They are not excuses.


Yes, yes they are excuses. You may not like to hear it, but that post is one giant excuse. The biggest factor in weight gain is your diet. That can be changed with zero extra time commitment. So there's more than half the battle and you haven't even had to devote time to it.

Beyond that is exercise. You need what, maybe 1.5-2hr/week? Now, I'm sure there are people out there who are busy for every single waking second with absolutely no spare time to do even a single little extra thing ever, but I'd bet this is a rare breed. Chances are the vast majority of people actually do have the free time to get this accomplished and like most overweight people, choose instead to make excuses for not getting it done.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

Cletus said:


> So if I come home every night after work, 5 nights a week for six years and coach the two soccer teams my children are on, does that make me lazy?
> 
> Or for the nearly two years it took to build an 1800 square foot addition on our house, giving up every single weekend and most weeknights, am I lazy?
> 
> ...


I find it really offensive the prejudice people have of the overweight. The assumption of being lazy and that they are gobbling high calories foods right and left.

I ate a serving of oatmeal, one tuna patty, a banana and 1 yogurt yesterday. That is what I eat like normally every day so these people have some nerve to tell me I am eating too much.


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## ravioli (Jan 23, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> Then call me shallow.
> 
> And I'll say something that most will think is even shallower. I think it's selfish when a spouse gains weight excessively due to an unhealthy lifestyle. Obesity has been linked to so many health problems and early death that to ignore it is to steal time away from your own future, time that you could be spending growing old with your spouse, playing with your kids, etc.
> 
> ...


True and Geaux Tigers


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## ravioli (Jan 23, 2013)

Tigger said:


> I find it really offensive the prejudice people have of the overweight. The assumption of being lazy and that they are gobbling high calories foods right and left.
> 
> I ate a serving of oatmeal, one tuna patty, a banana and 1 yogurt yesterday. That is what I eat like normally every day so these people have some nerve to tell me I am eating too much.


Who said you were overweight? Are you saying you've been consistently eating these foods over the course of a few years or you are just now eating these foods to tell people you eat like this and are at a certain weight level and your weight won't go down? I don't know what your weight is nor am I trying to guess it but eating what you ate consistently for a long period of time and not being able to lose weight is pretty suspect, even for an ultra sedentary person.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

ravioli said:


> True and Geaux Tigers


Any talk of my LSU Tigers belongs in the Religion subforum. Any talk of the Tide is bannable (jk).

/end threadjack

I don't have a prejudice against overweight people, and I doubt any of the other posters here do, either. If anything, I just have more of a roll of the eyes indifference, especially when people complain about their weight but do nothing about it. I work my freakin' ass off to stay in shape, run three times a week, box twice a week, watch my caloric intake, only drink on two nights a week, etc etc. So when an overweight person complains about their weight but they aren't eating a proper diet or exercising at all, and I'm sitting here working so hard to be in good shape, I just shrug. You keep doing what you're doing, you're gonna keep getting what you're getting.

The simple fact is that for the vast majorit of overweight people, it is a lifestyle choice. Period. I'm not talking about people with health conditions that cause them to gain weight, I mean people that willingly choose to not eat well, not exerise, or both.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tigger said:


> I find it really offensive the prejudice people have of the overweight. The assumption of being lazy and that they are gobbling high calories foods right and left.
> 
> I ate a serving of oatmeal, one tuna patty, a banana and 1 yogurt yesterday. That is what I eat like normally every day so these people have some nerve to tell me I am eating too much.


Weight gain is in your control, obviously.

But it's only easy for those who, well, find it easy. It creeps up on you so slowly that it can take extraordinary diligence to monitor everything involved _before_ it becomes a problem. I led a reasonably active lifestyle for a long time, playing club soccer, racquetball, cycling, ultimate frisbee - and still, ever so slowly, my weight ticked up. 3 months of the year is an epic battle between my allergic asthma and getting exercise. Now I have no ACL in my right knee from playing soccer. Couple that with being married to someone whose one great love in life is food, and "easy" goes out the window. As for walking around hungry all day long? I'd rather go without sex. 

God help you if you ever slip up and gain significant weight, because from everything I've read recently on the subject, once you change your body's set point, changing it back again is like moving heaven and earth. It is the extraordinarily rare bird indeed who loses 50 pounds and keeps it off for life. 

Is it easy? I guess, in the same way it's easy for an alcoholic to never drink again. 

Ultimately, it's up to me to decide what the right balance between living to enjoy life and living to prolong living. The only two people I have to account to are myself and my wife, not anyone in this forum or anywhere else. If you feel the need to do something more drastic to make a change, do it for yourself, and don't worry about the fat police.


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## ravioli (Jan 23, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> Any talk of my LSU Tigers belongs in the Religion subforum. Any talk of the Tide is bannable (jk).
> 
> /end threadjack
> 
> ...


They're my tigers too. But yes you are correct usually people that complain about their weight are not disicplining themselves to stay at a proper weight, whether it be by eating or exercising. So many people are looking for quick fixes or don't have the proper workout or work ethic to maintain a healthy lifestyle (whatever they deem healthy).


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

ravioli said:


> They're my tigers too. But yes you are correct usually people that complain about their weight are not disicplining themselves to stay at a proper weight, whether it be by eating or exercising. So many people are looking for quick fixes or don't have the proper workout or work ethic to maintain a healthy lifestyle (whatever they deem healthy).


I'd be happy if they just stopped pretending that weight control is the single hardest, most time consuming activity on earth.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

hawkeye said:


> I'd be happy if they just stopped pretending that weight control is the single hardest, most time consuming activity on earth.


And I'd be happy if you didn't feel the need to decide what is and is not difficult for me.

Here's a partial list of things I have personally found easier than weight control:

Working 30 hours/week while getting an undergraduate degree in engineering.
Going to graduate school
Staying in a 3 decade sexually mismatched relationship
Dealing with 2 mentally ill family members
Losing my hair at 22
Building half of a house from scratch
Changing an engine in one of the family cars

I haven't survived cancer yet, so that would probably be harder. I haven't been paralyzed in an auto wreck, or been diagnosed with ALS, which would certainly be harder.

But to date, weight control actually is the ONLY challenge in life that I have not been able to overcome. By that measure, it is the hardest thing in my life. I hope to seriously tackle it this year, but I have realistic expectations.

So any time you want to come clean on whatever your personal demon is so we can ridicule your lack of character and willpower in overcoming it, knock yourself out.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

MrsOldNews said:


> You can't control balding. But you can control weight in most cases.


You can, actually control balding -- hair transplants are one way. 

I think it's lame to split up over something like physical features, but, different people have different standards about different things. The body changes. We can control it to an extent, but people are more than the objects of their bodies. It just depends in what matters to you.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

sinnister said:


> II appologize for the mini-jack, but there are a lot of very active people that eat right AND STILL GAIN WEIGHT. It's not unheard of.


It's possible to gain weight while "eating right." Also, there are many problems with the conventional wisdom of "eating right." 

It seems like exercise is the common excuse people use. Diet is at least 80% of your body composition. Exercise is merely the icing on the cake.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Tigger said:


> I find it really offensive the prejudice people have of the overweight.


It's biology. Sorry.

No one is saying overweight people are worthless or anything, but attraction is biological so it's tough to argue with.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cletus said:


> As for walking around hungry all day long? I'd rather go without sex.


Apparently my husband feels the same way.  What's wrong with a guy who has a hot (arguably) petite athletic wife who doesn't give a crap that he has achieved a weight nearly THREE TIMES the weight of said wife and therefore his sex life suffers tremendously (he literally can't do things in the sack that I would want to do...not very agile and can't do certain positions). I mean, WTF?? It really does a number on my self esteem.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Cletus said:


> As for walking around hungry all day long? I'd rather go without sex.
> .


You're eating the wrong food. But that also goes back to the tradeoff you're willing to make.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Cletus said:


> God help you if you ever slip up and gain significant weight, because from everything I've read recently on the subject, once you change your body's set point, changing it back again is like moving heaven and earth.


That's because many people's set point is too low to begin with. They have a down-regulated and damaged (due to high toxin diets) metabolism that they decide to feed less food too, which causes it to down-regulate even more. It's a vicious cycle.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Dawn of Man said:


> It's possible to gain weight while "eating right." Also, there are many problems with the conventional wisdom of "eating right."
> 
> It seems like exercise is the common excuse people use. Diet is at least 80% of your body composition. Exercise is merely the icing on the cake.


I strongly think that exercise is equally as important if not more then calorie intake.

Even at 900 calories a day eating low fat foods is barely enough to maintain weight. I felt much better as a runner. It's too bad that was taken from me after my neck injury. I can't even walk more then 100 feet or so without pain.:/. I felt fabulous when I was a runner. I can bike a few minutes a day now, but it's not nearly the same as a 6 mile run.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I strongly think that exercise is equally as important if not more then calorie intake.
> 
> Even at 900 calories a day eating low fat foods is barely enough to maintain weight. I felt much better as a runner. It's too bad that was taken from me after my neck injury. I can't even walk more then 100 feet or so without pain.:/. I felt fabulous when I was a runner. I can bike a few minutes a day now, but it's not nearly the same as a 6 mile run.


900 calories? See my post above about set point.

Also, let's take your 6 mile run. Say you complete it within an hour and burn 600 calories. Now think of 600 calories in terms of food. Which one do you think would be easier on your body to withhold? 

Now if you're only taking in 900 calories while running 6 miles, that's a whole host of other issues.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Cletus said:


> And I'd be happy if you didn't feel the need to decide what is and is not difficult for me.
> 
> Here's a partial list of things I have personally found easier than weight control:
> 
> ...


I am not into ridicule... not me. 

Have you ever kept a food diary, just to see what it is you consume on a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis? Not that that is a panacea, but good health does take effort and work, just like all your other accomplishments (only addressing your accomplishments). 

I've done the first two things on your list and that took discipline (albeit, my degrees were not in engineering, my graduate was in cell and molecular biology which involves genetic engineering). Those two items took a lot of discipline for me to do (having to pay for my undergraduate on my own. Graduate was funded through my graduate advisor) and so does maintaining my health. It is not just something to do once in a while, it is always. 

There somethings that one can do right away that pays huge dividends. Eliminating empty calories; that is zero tolerance for any sugary drinks and alcohol. Neither have shown to contribute to health and both have been implicated in huge weight gain. 

The law of mass balance is simple, you consume more calories than you expend you will gain that in terms of glycogen gain (which is temporal) and fat gain (which evolution favors due to efficiency and long term storage for the next famine). 

Current stats are not good
Given that the average American Consumes
~50 Gallons of soda drinks/year
~20.6 Gallons of Beer/year
~2.3 Gallons of wine/year

That is 75K extra calories due to soda consumption, 7K extra calories due to wine consumption, and 32K Calories from beer consumption. 

Another is portion control. I don't advocate McDonalds, but the Happy Meal (meal sold for kids under the age of 11) is a portion size for a grown adult. As a society we just consume too much. Several studies have shown portion sizes on the rise to where we are eating 47% more than we were eating in the early 1970s. Reducing what we eat by nearly 50% would go a long way. 

You sound like you are active, but to really burn fat calories, physiology does not lie... this requires maintaining a heart rate that is between 75% - 85% of maximum Heart rate for at least 30 minutes three to four times a week. 

Finally, there is no denying some things do appear beyond control. Genetics does have a strong determinant, but to assume nature v nurture in some clear ratio has never been determined. Finally stress and lack of sleep have been shown through research to have an impact of weight gain... it has a lot to do with cortisol levels. So learning techniques (yoga, tai chi, etc.) to reduce stress may have huge benefits. 

Listen, I sympathize and not interested in telling someone to that they are undisciplined or calling anyone names. I do think though for all of us, we need to be vigilant to maintain our health

The CDC states that within five to 10 years obesity will be at epidemic proportions in the west and the WHO states these same crisis within 15 years for developing nations. 

I really encourage you to take an active role in your health.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Weight gain is in your control, obviously.
> 
> But it's only easy for those who, well, find it easy. It creeps up on you so slowly that it can take extraordinary diligence to monitor everything involved _before_ it becomes a problem. I led a reasonably active lifestyle for a long time, playing club soccer, racquetball, cycling, ultimate frisbee - and still, ever so slowly, my weight ticked up. 3 months of the year is an epic battle between my allergic asthma and getting exercise. Now I have no ACL in my right knee from playing soccer. Couple that with being married to someone whose one great love in life is food, and "easy" goes out the window. As for walking around hungry all day long? I'd rather go without sex.
> 
> ...


Dealing with food is even more difficult. You can live without ever drinking alcohol again. You can't say the same about food.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> 900 calories? See my post above about set point.
> 
> Also, let's take your 6 mile run. Say you complete it within an hour and burn 600 calories. Now think of 600 calories in terms of food. Which one do you think would be easier on your body to withhold?
> 
> Now if you're only taking in 900 calories while running 6 miles, that's a whole host of other issues.


Whoa whoa whoa! She didn't say she took in only 900 calories when she WAS running 6 miles. She said that's her intake NOW... when she is now physically incapable of running anymore. She takes in only 900 calories NOW because it works out to what she is capable of working off in a day. If she was running everyday, which she has stated she LOVED doing, she would be taking in more calories. So I don't understand where you even got that she was taking in so little and running to take it off....she never once said that. And her calorie intake was reduced because of her physical limitations. She recognizes that if she ate at the higher level now, she would balloon up, considerably. She knows what she's doing.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa! She didn't say she took in only 900 calories when she WAS running 6 miles. She said that's her intake NOW... when she is now physically incapable of running anymore. She takes in only 900 calories NOW because it works out to what she is capable of working off in a day. If she was running everyday, which she has stated she LOVED doing, she would be taking in more calories. So I don't understand where you even got that she was taking in so little and running to take it off....she never once said that. And her calorie intake was reduced because of her physical limitations. She recognizes that if she ate at the higher level now, she would balloon up, considerably. She knows what she's doing.


Absolutely correct. 

I did not calorie count when I was a runner. I ran 36 miles a week and I ate normally. My husband and I like to eat healthy. We don't really ever have any packaged foods in the house of any kinds.

I no longer can run. In fact I need a wheelchair when my husband takes me shopping since I only can walk a little ways at a time. Quitting running was the absolute hardest issue I've ever had to deal with mentally without getting depressed.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> So I don't understand where you even got that she was taking in so little and running to take it off....she never once said that. And her calorie intake was reduced because of her physical limitations.


Yeah I assumed that she wasn't consuming 900 calories and running. My last sentence was just a caveat. The rest of what I wrote was a standalone theoretical.



Maricha75 said:


> She recognizes that if she ate at the higher level now, she would balloon up, considerably. She knows what she's doing.


Does she know that her set point is probably too low? A person's BMR (coma calories) is roughly their body weight x 10. Now if she weighs 90 lbs, 900 calories is what her body requires for involuntary functions. If she weighs any more than that, she's got a damaged metabolism, which she can look into fixing.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

I've stated it before on many threads, one even recently. Who is to say when their spouse has "tried hard enough" to lose weight? The only qualifier to that is that they lost weight, right? But how much weight is enough weight for your partner to become instantly attractive to you again? Five pounds won't look like much to the thin partner. Are they going to fake sexual relations while their partner is struggling to lose weight for them? That five pounds was alot to the overweight partner. Won't the intervening years still hang between you? Do people think all the resentment will just fly out of the window? Will the overweight spouse ever trust their partner the same way again? Will the thin partner always be monitering what the previously overweight partner is eating?


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## yellowledbet (Sep 5, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> Yeah I assumed that she wasn't consuming 900 calories and running. My last sentence was just a caveat. The rest of what I wrote was a standalone theoretical.
> 
> 
> 
> Does she know that her set point is probably too low? A person's BMR (coma calories) is roughly their body weight x 10. Now if she weighs 90 lbs, 900 calories is what her body requires for involuntary functions. If she weighs any more than that, she's got a damaged metabolism, which she can look into fixing.


What is a damaged metabolism?


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

yellowledbet said:


> What is a damaged metabolism?


Damaged may be the wrong word in this case. But simply what happens is that as you lower the amount of food you take in, your body eventually recognizes that scarcity. It won't let the fat stores freely oxidize for energy as they once did as stress hormones take over and slow the rate of burn. The body is still able to operate, but much more sluggishly as it looks to burn muscle instead of fat. It's merely rationing energy much like you'd ration food if you were shipwrecked. Most people's fat loss plateaus and they think they need to cut more food out in order to lose it again. The body repeats the process with more intensity. And so on, and so on it goes.


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## Buildingblocks (Apr 22, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I wholeheartedly beg to differ. Are you or have you been in that situation? I am, and my marriage is getting ready to become one of those statistics.
> 
> Let me also add that significant weight gain is almost always linked with other issues in the marriage...chronic depression, low energy, lack of motivation, decrease in shared fun/entertainment, negative impacts on sex...I could go on and on.


Based on the study and your response, if your spouse has 20% more weight/fat i.e if he weighs 192 pounds instead of 160 pounds, you would be more likely to divorce him/her. 
I can understand getting fat by more than 80-100% but 20%...sheeesh!!


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


It makes sense. Both my wife and I are slim. Whenever one of us gains a bit of weight, we call the other fat so that the weight will be lost. Works pretty well.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Buildingblocks said:


> Based on the study and your response, if your spouse has 20% more weight/fat i.e if he weighs 192 pounds instead of 160 pounds, you would be more likely to divorce him/her.
> I can understand getting fat by more than 80-100% but 20%...sheeesh!!


I would like to read the whole "study" you read. Can you post a link to it? Also, my response doesn't exactly fit into this 20% category, as my H has increased in weight by 65%. That's 120 lbs. That's a much bigger deal than 40 lbs (20%).


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

When you are younger or are living a different lifestyle, you don't potentially remember how much exercise was inherent in your day to day activities. After people get married, while yes, some of it might be making bad food choices or "getting lazy" - I'm guessing some of it is more innocuous than that. It's that before marriage people lived a lifestyle that was more prone to naturally include more exercise that countered their poor 20-something food choices without going to the gym. 

When you were younger (potentially when you met your spouse) were you running around a college campus between classes every day? Before you had a car, did you take the bus? Were you on a sports team? Was there volleyball, Frisbee golf, or other random sports-type activities going on with your friends? Was your food intake curtailed by your lack of cash? I mean, yeah, Ramen noodles are really bad for you, but if that's the only thing you are eating...

Case in point? 

I used to be the assistant manager of a bookstore, I never set foot in a gym the entire time I worked there. But - my job in and of itself was a daily workout. I was on my feet for eight hours. I was lifting moving, packing and unpacking up to 75 lb boxes, setting up and taking down steel shelving, replacing and removing ceiling tiles, vacuuming, fixing toilets, you name it. 

I ate crap - Taco Bell three times a week (as I often ended up working over because people wouldn't show up for their shift). Pizza Hut, totally demolishing entire medium pizzas. Drank sugary drinks at work to keep my energy up. I never counted calories. And exercise wasn't conscious. It wasn't something I needed to go -somewhere else- to do. It wasn't something written into my schedule, I didn't consciously think about it. Yet at that job, I lost weight. Because my output was higher than my input (even as high as no doubt it was) without traditional "exercise" being part of the equation. 

So when I transitioned into SAHM zone, it didn't occur to me what a difference that made. Because I had never been a "gym goer" to me I wasn't "getting lazy" as I'd never gone to the gym to begin with. But - as the weather waxes and wanes (ugh, Wisconsin in the winter time) and we are able to get out of the house more (me and my son) - I realize even the difference a few days walking at the mall or shopping makes. So, now, I'm counter calories, and in the past three months doing that with no other real changes, I've lost ten pounds. :smthumbup:

So - I'm just saying, the change might not be as obvious as people think, nor the person themselves realize. It isn't always someone went to the gym every day and suddenly never went again. Or - used to eat really healthy, and now eats total crap. I mean, sure there are those cases, and we hear about them here on TAM, and some of them kind of blow my mind (used to like rock climbing now hates it). 

But for some people the transition into station-wagon driving Mom/Dad or as a non-parental married came with changes that totally transformed someone's daily life. People just have to work to realize that, and adjust accordingly.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I definately could see this. My husband was military and kept his weight down while he was in service but once he retired he gained a bunch of weight, now has this huge gut where once I could see his abs and I can say with all honesty that I do not find the gut attractive in the slightest. On a daily basis I wish he would lose the weight. His clothes no longer fit....eitehr he buys shirts that are way too big and they hang like tents or he buys them too tight and they make his "baby bump" more obvious. He does work out but I think he eats too much, the guy likes to snack.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You have a duty to remain as attractive to your spouse as possible. Barring medical issues, gaining weight is (to me) a big f-you to your spouse. I am not P.C. about this issue nor will I ever be. This notion that a spouse should love you no matter what size is ridiculous. We all age but maintaining our size is something well with in our control. 

Before everybody jumps down my throat, I lost 75+ pounds 8 years ago and kept it off with hard work and discipline. Is it fun? No. Is it worth it? Yes.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

TRBE, not to also not be "PC" - but, if when you were 75 lbs heavier, if your husband had said you were too heavy to love, you really would have said "Well, I deserve that, I failed in my duty, and thus I'm happy to see you go?" Or you wouldn't have said, at least on some level to yourself, "I thought you'd always love me." 

I think it might be one of those things that sounds good in practice to say and advise other people that love is conditional, but isn't as non-emotional and matter of fact when you are the one actually hearing it. 

But - I do understand that there are extremes. Even being home-bound with an anxiety disorder following a car accident, basically getting no exercise, and with a long-standing thyroid condition, I've never gained close to the 75, 100, 125 lbs that some people are mentioning. That's extreme, and I think, a lot deeper than a "F-U" to your spouse, is an "F-U" to yourself. 

My example above was covering a 30 lb gain between my pregnancy and the general lull of being a SAHM after being so busy at work. I wasn't attempting to try and cover gaining 200 lbs.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You have a duty to remain as attractive to your spouse as possible. Barring medical issues, gaining weight is (to me) a big f-you to your spouse. I am not P.C. about this issue nor will I ever be. This notion that a spouse should love you no matter what size is ridiculous. We all age but maintaining our size is something well with in our control.
> 
> Before everybody jumps down my throat, I lost 75+ pounds 8 years ago and kept it off with hard work and discipline. Is it fun? No. Is it worth it? Yes.


I don't know...just seems like for a lot of people it may have nothing to do with their partner...myself included.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

sinnister said:


> I don't know...just seems like for a lot of people it may have nothing to do with their partner...myself included.


I'm not sure what you are saying. Weight gain has nothing to do with your partner?


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have an extremely low metabolism. I eat under 2000 calories in a day and usually only half of that. I exercise for an hour 3 days a week. I cannot lose weight for the life of me. I have no health problems whatsoever and my dr is not concerned about my weight. Technically I am about 30lbs overweight. I think a spouse divorcing for weight alone is completely selfish and shallow. Especially if they themselves are overweight or if their spouse was when they married. My weight gain was from my pregnancies. I think every individual marriage is different and if a person is actively trying to lose the weight then they should not be pushed aside when they aren't successful.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

There is a big difference between what you're describing and what spouses like me are going through. You ARE watching your caloric intake, you ARE exercising, you acknowledge your weight issue and do your best to take care of yourself. 

My husband, on the other hand, only acknowledges his 120 lb weight gain by making his occasional "I'm fat" comments. He does NOTHING to try to lose weight. He refuses to exercise. I have maintained a slim figure and work out regularly. I did creep up in weight 10 years ago but put my mind to losing it...I lost 35 lbs (which is a lot when you're only 5' tall). I've kept it off and look and feel better than I did in my 20s. Neither of us were overweight when we married. 

I doubt that there is anyone here who would divorce their spouse over "weight alone". Significant weight gain causes many other issues in marriage...attraction dwindles, sex life suffers, activity levels begin to diminish, the clothing he wears are much less stylish and look baggy and frumpy, his ability to do certain chores or tasks diminish because he physically can't do it, recreational activities like amusement parks are a thing of the past, his joints hurt and he can't do anything physical without moaning and groaning about it for the next 2 days...THESE are the things that erode away at marital happiness because of weight, NOT the weight itself.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Buildingblocks said:


> Just goes to shoe how shallow people are becoming in these times.


I'm sorry; I am having the same problem with my wife. She is double her marital weight and is now 330lbs. In no way shape or form do I find that attractive. When she was 200lbs, I was still attracted to her. I have no problem with women who have gained weight ... for some weird reason, I find the "mommy" body very attractive. I am NOT attracted to morbidly obese people. She looks nothing like the person I married. 

I love her but that is not the same as being attracted to her. Put it this way, if I was single and I saw her for the first time, I would say no. I am attracted to people who take care of themselves. If they've gained 30lbs and take care of themselves, I'm still attracted. My love for who she is still exists but that only compensates somewhat when it comes to physical attraction ... there was a point when her weight became too much and I was no longer blind to it. If she had only gained 20% of her body weight, this would NOT be an issue.

I find our sexless marriage to be VERY difficult. Is that really shallow?


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## elizabethdennis (Jan 16, 2013)

curlysue321 said:


> Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


This is ridiculous. There is more to marriage than body weight. I've gained 12lbs after I got married, but I am still happily married. And I strongly believe my husband feels the same.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> TRBE, not to also not be "PC" - but, if when you were 75 lbs heavier, if your husband had said you were too heavy to love, you really would have said "Well, I deserve that, I failed in my duty, and thus I'm happy to see you go?" *Or you wouldn't have said, at least on some level to yourself, "I thought you'd always love me."
> *
> I think it might be one of those things that sounds good in practice to say and advise other people that love is conditional, but isn't as non-emotional and matter of fact when you are the one actually hearing it.
> 
> ...


There is a difference between loving somebody and being physically attracted to them. After all, that is in all likelihood a very big part of what brought you together in the first place. The problem is that physical intimacy is very important in a marriage and if one partner is no longer physically attracted to the other then the lack of physical intimacy can put a big strain on their emotional connection.

My wife and I are like friends who have known each other forever and live together. Nothing more really. We don't have sex and if I stay in my marriage and nothing changes then I will spend the rest of my life without physical intimacy.

EDIT: If a person gains 30 lbs during their marriage and the other person uses that as an excuse then yes, I do think that is being shallow. That is holding the other person to an impossible standard of perfection. However, when the spouse has completely let themselves go, that's when problems arise. There are medical conditions that cause weight gain; what that means is that there is extra work required to stay within what would be considered reasonable. All this said, there are people who have no problem with weight at all. Some women are attracted to big bulky guy and some men do like women who are heavy. My wife crossed the line from heavy to morbidly obese and that was when my attraction to her took a nosedive.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

elizabethdennis said:


> This is ridiculous. There is more to marriage than body weight. I've gained 12lbs after I got married, but I am still happily married. And I strongly believe my husband feels the same.


You have only gained 12lbs. That is completely normal. Now do you think if you or your partner doubled their body weight, things would remain the same? They said over 20%; unless you weighed 60lbs when you married, you have not gained 20% of your body weight let alone doubled it. Over 20% includes a broad spectrum of weight gain.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

My guess is that it's more of a problem when one spouse gains weight and the other one doesn't. I'm not sure it's totally attraction related either. I think it's a subconscious notion that the person who gained the weight is lazy. Now if both spouses gain weight then they both understand how it can sneak up but if one spouse has been vigilent in staying healthy then they can easily lose respect for the other spouse for not doing what they were able to do.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> My guess is that it's more of a problem when one spouse gains weight and the other one doesn't. I'm not sure it's totally attraction related either. I think it's a subconscious notion that the person who gained the weight is lazy. Now if both spouses gain weight then they both understand how it can sneak up but if one spouse has been vigilent in staying healthy then they can easily lose respect for the other spouse for not doing what they were able to do.


There might be some truth to that. I have maintained my fitness for most of my marriage and my wife has not. Now there is a significant disparity. I'm not looking for my wife to start training for ironmans but at least ATTEMPT to appear attractive to me. Just something. Please. 

I know a lot of couples where both have gained a lot of weight and they are just as happy as can be.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'm sorry; I am having the same problem with my wife. She is double her marital weight and is now 330lbs. In no way shape or form do I find that attractive. When she was 200lbs, I was still attracted to her. I have no problem with women who have gained weight ... for some weird reason, I find the "mommy" body very attractive. I am NOT attracted to morbidly obese people. She looks nothing like the person I married.
> 
> I love her but that is not the same as being attracted to her. Put it this way, if I was single and I saw her for the first time, I would say no. I am attracted to people who take care of themselves. If they've gained 30lbs and take care of themselves, I'm still attracted. My love for who she is still exists but that only compensates somewhat when it comes to physical attraction ... there was a point when her weight became too much and I was no longer blind to it. If she had only gained 20% of her body weight, this would NOT be an issue.
> 
> I find our sexless marriage to be VERY difficult. Is that really shallow?


IMHO you are being shallow and that is accounting for men's greater need for an attractive mate. Why? Because all I have seen skimming through this thread is focused on _weight_. When guys usually describe a woman whom they are attracted to they may say she has a "hot bod" but more often than that they will say that her smile turns them on, or the way she plays with her hair drives them crazy, or they love watching her hands when she's doing some chore, the smell of her shampoo is intoxicating etc etc. This gives the impression to the woman that little choices she makes like the color of her lipstick or her hair cut or her clothes are important to you (by you I mean men in general). Imagine our surprise when we realize that those things are only important to men when the body is "hot". All the time and care we put into the _rest_ of out appearance means nothing to you. We feel lied too. 

I often see the term "if he/she would just TRY" come from the thin spouse. I find that to be a very flimsy excuse. If your 300 pound wife lost 5 lbs that would be a _lot _of hard work for her but no payoff for the thin spouse. You wouldn't be anymore physically attracted to her if she lost five pounds. The underlying message that you are sending is "I'm willing to rough it out in the hopes that _someday _she'll lose enough weight where I'll be magically turned on again". No matter how proud of her you would be or thankful you were that she was trying to meet your needs you still wouldn't want to have sex with her. By the time your wife loses a lot of weight you will have months if not years of built up resentment to overcome. Remember a wives make love to make an emotional connection to their husband. You've lost one emotional connection already and over the course of the next few months you are likely to lose even more connection if you shame her into losing weight. You may wind up with a hot wife who is now rejecting _you_.

Often extreme weight gain is caused my other unmet needs in the marriage. Perhaps try focusing on those unmet needs of hers instead of lying all the blame at her feet. Maybe then she'd be more motivated.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> IMHO you are being shallow and that is accounting for men's greater need for an attractive mate. Why? Because all I have seen skimming through this thread is focused on _weight_. When guys usually describe a woman whom they are attracted to they may say she has a "hot bod" but more often than that they will say that her smile turns them on, or the way she plays with her hair drives them crazy, or they love watching her hands when she's doing some chore, the smell of her shampoo is intoxicating etc etc. This gives the impression to the woman that little choices she makes like the color of her lipstick or her hair cut or her clothes are important to you (by you I mean men in general). Imagine our surprise when we realize that those things are only important to men when the body is "hot". All the time and care we put into the _rest_ of out appearance means nothing to you. We feel lied too.
> 
> I often see the term "if he/she would just TRY" come from the thin spouse. I find that to be a very flimsy excuse. If your 300 pound wife lost 5 lbs that would be a _lot _of hard work for her but no payoff for the thin spouse. You wouldn't be anymore physically attracted to her if she lost five pounds. The underlying message that you are sending is "I'm willing to rough it out in the hopes that _someday _she'll lose enough weight where I'll be magically turned on again". No matter how proud of her you would be or thankful you were that she was trying to meet your needs you still wouldn't want to have sex with her. By the time your wife loses a lot of weight you will have months if not years of built up resentment to overcome. Remember a wives make love to make an emotional connection to their husband. You've lost one emotional connection already and over the course of the next few months you are likely to lose even more connection if you shame her into losing weight. You may wind up with a hot wife who is now rejecting _you_.
> 
> Often extreme weight gain is caused my other unmet needs in the marriage. Perhaps try focusing on those unmet needs of hers instead of lying all the blame at her feet. Maybe then she'd be more motivated.


Hold on a second. You are making a LOT of assumptions and are trying to infer that my lack of physical attraction and her weight gain is all my fault. Ridiculous. That is akin to saying that a choice for my wife to have an affair would be all my fault. 

There are so many things about this comment that makes me want to scream to be honest with you. Extreme weight is caused by unmet needs in the marriage? That is nuts. First, the only person who is responsible for her happiness is her. Second, we have been married for 20 years. Her weight gain has been constant throughout our marriage. If she has unmet needs in our marriage then it is her responsibility to communicate that to me. I want to make sure that her needs are met but this isn't a case of us reaching tough times in our marriage and her binge eating as a result. Even if she did then whose fault is it that she would choose that method to cope? Certainly not mine. Her weight management or lack of it is primarily because it is not important enough to her to do something about.

EDIT: She does not have a medical condition that caused her weight. Her weight gain is not an emotional response to something missing in her life. Her weight gain is the result of thousands of poor choices made over 20 years. It is about a lack of self-discipline. Lack of self-discipline causes all sort of problems ... financial stress, stale career, addictions. The easy thing to do is blame your lack of discipline on your spouse ... it is all YOUR fault I'm this way. 

Shame her into losing weight? I have NEVER said anything about how her weight affects my level of attraction to her. I have internalized all of that. Some guys harp on their wives to stay fit and make offhand comments or are downright insulting when their wives gain an extra 10 pounds. That is not this guy. That is something that I have kept to myself for years. I have been the guy fixing the broken toilet seats, replacing chairs broken by her, spending thousands in medical expenses ... all because of her weight ... but have said nothing about how unappealing I find it.

I have tried so many things to encourage her to lose weight without actually telling her that her weight is a problem. I've taken over grocery shopping, primarily so that I can ensure I limit the snack foods and have healthy food in the house. I have done the research and suggested that we try this meal or that. I have tried to get her to participate with me on doing active things; some as simple as just taking a walk. I've supported all her 'miracle cures' that she wants to try. I have purchased expensive cardio equipment, paid for her gym memberships and changed my schedule around so that she can workout during her short-lived attempts to get more fit. There really isn't much more I can do. Ultimately it is up to her. Yet, I have done all of this without saying one thing about how unattractive I find it.

I am the thin person in my marriage. Why? Because I spend hours and hours in the gym. During the summers, I take my girls out on long bicycle rides, go hiking among other things to help maintain my fitness and encourage them to do the same. I am the one getting up early in the morning to get to the gym before work. I have done this for years. I do the things that a lot of people aren't willing to do. I "take the stairs". Now you imply that well ... you are the lucky one to be the thin person in your relationship. No, it is an investment I made in myself ... there is nothing lucky about it. 

It isn't as if I am the guy ready to kick my wife to the curb because she has gained an extra 30 lbs when she gave me my children and can't seem to take it off. That isn't me. My wife wasn't thin (ie, "hot bod") when I married her; she was a normal girl with some extra weight who I still found attractive because of who she was. For me the connection is what drives attraction ... to a point. Now she has literally doubled her body weight. She looks nothing like the woman I married. 330lbs is extremely large. She has related health problems. She sleeps with a machine because of weight induced apnea. She has nerve damage and tremors in her feet and legs because of her weight. We can't sleep in the same bed primarily because of her weight and related issues. When we do have sex, we are now very limited because of her extreme size. There are things she can't do around the house that I now have to do. It has more of an impact than simply my physical attraction.

So, you think I'm shallow because no jedi mind trick available can make me find somebody with all of that fat attractive? What is the line? Is 330lbs not large enough for you? If she gains an extra 200lbs and becomes bedridden, am I still shallow because I don't desire her? This isn't about love. I love her for who she is. This is about sexual attraction. What if it wasn't weight? ... which seems to be a taboo for people. What if it was hygiene? What if the person you married stopped taking showers on a regular basis and emitted a strong body odor you find repulsive. Is it shallow because you find that odor objectionable? What if they stopped brushing their teeth and eventually their teeth started rotting out. Is it all that shallow to not want to kiss them? 

At what point does it become not shallow when you don't desire a person sexually? 

So, apparently all of this shouldn't matter and I should desire them sexually because I love them. Anything less than that is shallow? No, I love my mother and my sister. I don't want to have sex with them. I am sure Mother Theresa was an amazing person who I would love if I knew her ... still wouldn't make me want to jump her bones. There are many things that I love and respect about my wife but that is different than sexual attraction and unfortunately sexual attraction is part of the equation in a marital relationship. It is unlikely that you married a person you weren't physically attracted to, that is likely part of what brought you together in the first place. The intimacy you shared, both emotional and physical, likely heightened that sexual attraction but it isn't the whole story. There are still physical characteristics that are part of that equation ... physical characteristics that you associate with the emotional connection. What happens when not only those physical characteristics go away but they become something that you aren't just neutral to but have always found unattractive? 

It cuts both ways. Prior to marriage, I had the girlfriend with the hot body. She was stunning. Blonde and beautiful. Exactly my type. When I met her I was immediately aroused. She was my type for about a month before I discovered what she was all about. Not a good person. I lost all sexual attraction for her because of who she was.

EDIT: Ok, let's imagine a scenario. Tonight is date night and you and your husband are planning to go out for a nice dinner and then make love later in the evening. You get up in the morning and want to spend the day outside on a nice summer day working on your garden. You haven't showered in a couple of days and you skip brushing your teeth ... doesn't matter, you are spending the day outside anyway. You come into the house an hour or so before it's time to leave and you are dripping with sweat and completely filthy. You are starving so you rip open a bag of cheetos and devour them. Your teeth are orange and you badly need to floss. You are a wreck. You think to yourself, well I'm filthy and I need to get ready but wow, I'm tired from working all day and cramping a bit because I'm on my period ... screw it, he loves me because of who I am and not what I look like so I'll just take a nap instead. He comes home and you tell him that you already had a snack so let's skip dinner and make love ... are you really going to be offended if he takes one look at you and says "honey, you know I love you but .... ewwww" What exactly is the difference between that and 200 lbs of extra fat added since the day you got married? Time?


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

michelle13 said:


> I have an extremely low metabolism. I eat under 2000 calories in a day and usually only half of that. I exercise for an hour 3 days a week. I cannot lose weight for the life of me. I have no health problems whatsoever and my dr is not concerned about my weight. Technically I am about 30lbs overweight.


What do you eat?



michelle13 said:


> I think a spouse divorcing for weight alone is completely selfish and shallow.


Shaming what others find attractive is also shallow



michelle13 said:


> Especially if they themselves are overweight or if their spouse was when they married. My weight gain was from my pregnancies. I think every individual marriage is different and if a person is actively trying to lose the weight then they should not be pushed aside when they aren't successful.


Who is doing this? I'm sure most people complained about here have "let themselves go" implying they no longer care about their appearance. That takes your spouse for granted about as much as anything else would.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

Fledgling said:


> When guys usually describe a woman whom they are attracted to they may say she has a "hot bod" but more often than that they will say that her smile turns them on, or the way she plays with her hair drives them crazy, or they love watching her hands when she's doing some chore, the smell of her shampoo is intoxicating etc etc.


More often than not this is men being PC, or at least downplaying the significance of physical appearance in order to not be shamed for their biology.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> What do you eat?
> Lets see today I ate a bowl of cereal for breakfast and a ham sandwich for lunch. I drink iced tea pretty much all day or water. My dinner's usually consist of meat, a starch, and a veggie. My portion size is the same as or smaller than my 9 year old's. I lost almost 20lbs when I initially cut my portion size. When I have the occasional snack it is air popped popcorn with salt (no butter). Sometimes pretzels.
> 
> Shaming what others find attractive is also shallow
> ...


Not caring about your appearance is a major problem both in a marriage and individually. I agree with you on that. The study that was quoted to start this thread said that people are divorcing because of weight gain. I think that is someone is trying and still can't lose the weight then they should not be divorced because of that reason alone. I'm not accusing anyone on here of anything...It seems to me that everyone on here that has a problem with their spouse's weight has other problems also.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> IMHO you are being shallow and that is accounting for men's greater need for an attractive mate. Why? Because all I have seen skimming through this thread is focused on _weight_. When guys usually describe a woman whom they are attracted to they may say she has a "hot bod" but more often than that they will say that her smile turns them on, or the way she plays with her hair drives them crazy, or they love watching her hands when she's doing some chore, the smell of her shampoo is intoxicating etc etc. This gives the impression to the woman that little choices she makes like the color of her lipstick or her hair cut or her clothes are important to you (by you I mean men in general). Imagine our surprise when we realize that those things are only important to men when the body is "hot". All the time and care we put into the _rest_ of out appearance means nothing to you. We feel lied too.


No these are all cues to sexual attraction. Triggers. The way she flips her hair or her smile or ... watching her hands as she does her chores. You love all these little things but any one single thing doesn't define your sexual attraction to them.

It isn't about having a hot body; it is about the entire package. Look at it like a balance sheet. There are things about a person that goes on the plus side of sexual attraction and some on the negative. Everybody weighs these things differently and they change over time. The bottom line is how attracted you are to this person.

Initially, things like the shape of her body or her smile are significant positives on the balance sheet. Maybe she has blonde hair and that is especially attractive to you, adding to the plus side. She's sweet and alluring so both of these go on the plus side. She seems smart and funny and those things are very important to you and so they weigh heavily on the plus side. Other people might not think those things are important so it wouldn't weigh heavily on the plus side for them ... everybody is different. Maybe her laugh is a little annoying and you discover she just came out of a long term relationship and those things go on the negative balance sheet for you but overall you are still heavily on the plus side ... very attracted.

Then you get to know her better and start to get a sense of her personality. You might find that you have a lot in common with her so those go on the plus side adding to your attraction. You start to notice those little things about her ... the things that make her laugh or smile, how her hair smells, how she feels when you are holding her. Those experiences can add to the balance sheet and you are even more attracted to her. Maybe you discover she's a little unorganized or she is forgetful. Those go in the negative column but over all you still come out positive.

Then you start sharing life experiences. Those experiences accumulate and some go on the positive side and some go into the negative. Things progress and most of your memories are positive and you are smitten with her ... you are in a fog and even the negative things lose their weight on the balance sheet. 

On date night, she raises the positive balance even more ... she is wearing something sexy. She has a new perfume and it smells great. She had her hair done. She looks great. All the cues are there and tonight you can't keep your hands off of her.

Positive shared experiences add to the plus side of the balance sheet but they do lose their value over time. What happened 10 years used to weigh heavily on the plus side but only adds a little positive value now. They are fond but distant memories. You must continue to have positive shared experiences to add to the balance sheet.

The weight of those things change over time but what happens when the balance sheet goes into the negative?

She lets go of herself. At first, her body wasn't much of the equation. She had a little extra weight but she still looked good so that was a positive. However, slowly over time she continues to add weight. It becomes a negative on the balance sheet of attraction but overall you are still in the positive. Her personality, your shared experiences, her smile, the smell of her hair ... even all the little things adds up to sexual attraction. She continues to gain weight and it starts dragging down the balance of sexual attraction. Maybe some of the other things that used to be on the plus side of the balance sheet lose their value as a result ... you used to value taking walks with her but she no longer does it. She used to play a huge role in keeping the house clean but now it falls on you because she is too tired. You used to love how she fit in that little nook on your shoulder after making love ... but she no longer fits. In fact, you can no longer put your arms around her. Those used to have value on the balance sheet but are neutral now. She has continued to gain weight ... and now the balance sheet is in the negative. It isn't the only thing on the negative side of the balance sheet, there may be a number of things, but that is the one thing that caused the overall balance to go into the negative. You are no longer sexually attracted to her.

Other things could degrade the balance sheet into the negative. She is selfish; she accumulates selfish acts over the years. She nags and criticizes; the nagging over the years adds up. It doesn't matter how hot her bod is. The balance is negative.

Some things cause the balance sheet to go into the negative immediately: She cheats on you. That goes heavily in the negative and suddenly the overall balance is negative. She has no remorse and flaunts it in your face. Suddenly you can't even see the positive side of the balance sheet, it is entirely in the red. You hate her. Sometimes you might look at her and those cues, her hair, her smile remind you of when the balance sheet was in the positive and you might feel attracted to her for a moment ... but it is a lie ... only a memory ... you snap out of it .... she disgusts you.

No, when we say we love those things about you we mean it. It does not mean we are lying to you and that the only thing we are really attracted to is your "hot bod."


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

michelle13 said:


> Lets see today I ate a bowl of cereal for breakfast and a ham sandwich for lunch. I drink iced tea pretty much all day or water. My dinner's usually consist of meat, a starch, and a veggie. My portion size is the same as or smaller than my 9 year old's. I lost almost 20lbs when I initially cut my portion size. When I have the occasional snack it is air popped popcorn with salt (no butter). Sometimes pretzels..


Yikes...all those grainz! The horror!

The way I see it your metabolism is low for two reasons. 

1)You're eating so little food that your body has no other choice but to downregulate hormones (metabolism) in order to adapt to the scant amounts of food you take in. You lost 20 lbs initially because your body metabolized fat stores at a given rate. Then your body adapted to the caloric deficit via release of stress hormones which dropped your prior metabolic rate to where you're at now. That's why the weight loss has stopped. It is not your set point, or where you're destined to remain forever. Your body is merely rationing energy like any of us would do with a shortage of food after crashing on a deserted island.

2) You're getting little nutrition from the food you eat which affects these metabolic process even further and releases further stress hormones and a possible chronic inflammation state.

Do you feel you have enough energy throughout the day? Any p.m. crashing?


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

Fledgling.....it is not shallow to NOT be turned on by an over weight spouse. It is simply the facts of life. Ie. sometimes a sunset is prettier than other times. That is not because I have a bad outlook or am not looking for the right things. It is just the way it is. Likewise, FAT is NOT attractive to most people. Actually, for most it is just the opposite. That is simply the way that it is. I have friends that were once in good shape and have gained 100-200 pounds and it kills me for their spouse. I don't know for some of them how they could even want to have sex at all. 
Unless there is a medical condition....the person that has gained the weight should care enough for themselves and their spouse to get off the couch, get out of the fridge and lose the weight. 
Fledgling.... that just is what it is and it is not shallow. Somethings are just not pretty to us....it just is what it is.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

michelle13 said:


> I think that is someone is trying and still can't lose the weight then they should not be divorced because of that reason alone.


I agree, especially if they're trying. And the spouse can determine the amount of effort they see being put forth and go from there.

I just like to point out how we consider some factors of attraction as "shallow" while others aren't. If they all play in to attraction and we can all agree that attraction is a requirement, then it shouldn't matter.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> Yikes...all those grainz! The horror!
> 
> The way I see it your metabolism is low for two reasons.
> 
> ...


Yeah I feel like I have plenty of energy. I am a SAHM with 2 small children. I keep the house clean, chase after them, do yardwork, and pretty much all there is to do here. Mon-Fri anyway. Sometimes I get help on the weekends. I run errands help with homework and still find time to play on the computer. My day starts at 7am and ends about 1030-11pm. I drink iced tea for the caffeine. I occasionally have coffee if I'm tired in the morning but never more than 3x a week (I don't like the taste). No p.m. crashing unless I skip a meal or 2. I admit there are times when I only eat dinner.
Any advice you could give me would be a great help. You could pm so we don't hijack this thread..lol


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

michelle13 said:


> Any advice you could give me would be a great help. You could pm so we don't hijack this thread..lol


I sent you one...I think. I didn't get any confirmation that it sent so let me know.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dawn of Man said:


> I sent you one...I think. I didn't get any confirmation that it sent so let me know.


Yes I got it. Thank you. I'm checking out the website right now


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Hold on a second. You are making a LOT of assumptions and are trying to infer that my lack of physical attraction and her weight gain is all my fault. Ridiculous. That is akin to saying that a choice for my wife to have an affair would be all my fault.
> 
> And you seem to be going out of your way to paint your spouse as a slacker, without discipline, disrespectful, and frankly malicious for not losing the weight. As if she is any happier being overweight.
> 
> ...


I think it's really disengenuous. I know guys who have taken downright ugly women to bed. Women who didn't brush their teeth or shave their legs. Happens in bars all the time. Just to get laid. I've seen women who's husband works a farm and comes home rank and has sex just because she's horny. You're example is a one time time instance. Your problem is built up resentment over _years_ and alot of dissillusionment. Again to reiterate this amount of weight will take a year or more to come off and will be a constant battle for her. When will her weightloss be enough that you will magically want her again? This is not the same as cleaning up after a long day. (BTW the smart spouse will offer to find sexy ways to get him clean.  )

ETA: Sorry about the quotes. I tried to put all my responses in red. Also I apologized if my tones was insulting. It's a passionate topic for me.


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## Ladywriter (Mar 13, 2013)

curlysue321 said:


> Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


 I read that to the other day, even though its sad it can be true as the attraction of the sexyness of when they were not fat will wear off. but it also depends on the couple as well and how they feel about that person, whether they still in love with them, yes it is shallow,


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> Also I apologized if my tones was insulting. It's a passionate topic for me.


Why is this such a passionate topic for you? You labored intensely to write posts belittling and dismissing the very real feelings of those of us who have overweight spouses. Yet I don't see anywhere where you have shared YOUR experience with this. Yes, you are passionate about this. I dare say that JustSomeGuyWho and I are as passionate about it as you are. Speaking of "disingenuous", that is how I take your "apology" for coming across as insulting. I have a very low yield for people who come storming across threads spewing judgements like you have rather than discussing and sharing their experiences.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Why is this such a passionate topic for you? You labored intensely to write posts belittling and dismissing the very real feelings of those of us who have overweight spouses. Yet I don't see anywhere where you have shared YOUR experience with this. Yes, you are passionate about this. I dare say that JustSomeGuyWho and I are as passionate about it as you are. Speaking of "disingenuous", that is how I take your "apology" for coming across as insulting. I have a very low yield for people who come storming across threads spewing judgements like you have rather than discussing and sharing their experiences.


I have a very low yield for people who only want validation and refuse to consider that other people might have valuable input. 

Are you asking for personal story because you care about me? Or are you asking for my personal story so that you can poke holes in my reasoning?

I addressed each issue that was brought up, as best as possible. He asked a question as to whether or not he was shallow. I answered honestly. It wasn't meant as an insult.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Whenever I post on a subject, and especially if I take the time to tear someone else's post apart piece by piece, I feel I owe it to my fellow posters in that thread to give a little background of my experience in that subject...it's the difference between showing credibility vs being opinionated.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Whenever I post on a subject, and especially if I take the time to tear someone else's post apart piece by piece, I feel I owe it to my fellow posters in that thread to give a little background of my experience in that subject...it's the difference between showing credibility vs being opinionated.


Then you and I have different philosophies. If you'd like to respond to my post as stated we can move on.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Fledgling said:


> Then you and I have different philosophies. If you'd like to respond to my post as stated we can move on.


I'll be happy to respond. You seem to think that the two men with morbidly obese wives did little to nothing to encourage their weight lose. Both have said in no uncertain terms how much they supported and assisted in helping their wives lose weight to no avail. Now they say that they are no longer attracted to their wives and you respond with something along the lines of how dare you, you didn't do enough and that they are shallow. I find that to be unhelpful and flat out ridiculous. They are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have the right to say so as well.

I agree with them and I used to be a fat wife. You also suggest that their wives being fat are the husbands fault. No, it's the wives fault. I was the one putting food in my mouth, my husband wasn't force feeding me. He also wasn't tying me down to the sofa to prevent me from working out. It is nobodies fault but the individual. My husband was very supportive of me and I finally changed because I chose to, just as I chose to pack on the weight.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'll be happy to respond. You seem to think that the two men with morbidly obese wives did little to nothing to encourage their weight lose. Both have said in no uncertain terms how much they supported and assisted in helping their wives lose weight to no avail. Now they say that they are no longer attracted to their wives and you respond with something along the lines of how dare you, you didn't do enough and that they are shallow. I find that to be unhelpful and flat out ridiculous. They are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have the right to say so as well.
> 
> I agree with them and I used to be a fat wife. You also suggest that their wives being fat are the husbands fault. No, it's the wives fault. I was the one putting food in my mouth, my husband wasn't force feeding me. He also wasn't tying me down to the sofa to prevent me from working out. It is nobodies fault but the individual. My husband was very supportive of me and I finally changed because I chose to, just as I chose to pack on the weight.


Wow, thank you. I just got finished reading her post and I'm so riled up I don't even know how to respond. You said it very well.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Actually I'm a wife with an obese husband...but the principles are the same. Thank you, Therealbrighteyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> Actually I'm a wife with an obese husband...but the principles are the same. Thank you, Therealbrighteyes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whoops, sorry about that! I get frustrated when I read that spouses are shallow for wanting their partner to care about how they look. Staying in shape has so many benefits not only to marriage but overall health. It doesn't make a partner a jerk for wanting that.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'll be happy to respond. You seem to think that the two men with morbidly obese wives did little to nothing to encourage their weight lose. Both have said in no uncertain terms how much they supported and assisted in helping their wives lose weight to no avail. Now they say that they are no longer attracted to their wives and you respond with something along the lines of how dare you, you didn't do enough and that they are shallow. I find that to be unhelpful and flat out ridiculous. They are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have the right to say so as well.
> 
> No, that is not what I said at all. If you'll pardon me for saying so that is what you want to think I am saying. Sometimes being "supportive" is actually "enabling" or worse "controlling". And which one it is seen by by the fatter spouse is a reflection of the state of the marriage. Not being honest over the years and allowing the problem to escalate trying to be PC and "not shallow" shows lack of communication. I never said that the thinner spouse needs to be instantly attracted to the other spouse. What I am saying is that if you allow the rest of your marriage to diminish and you start "keeping score" (I fixed this, my spouse can't do xyz, I'm a good role model" etc etc all of a sudden any efforts that are made can seem like wasted effort.
> 
> ...


Of course you were. There's no doubt the ability to change is within someone. I highly doubt how ever that you or even most people say to themselves "I'm going to gain 5, 10, 20 pounds this month because I hate my husband/wife and they deserve to suffer." Yet, this is how most overweight spouses are treated. You CHOSE to do this to our family, to ME! You must not love me. Most people might know that they will gain weight and might even be able to guess the consequences but that is not the same as choosing to make your spouse miserable.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I can't quote everything you wrote for some reason. I've never mastered the multiple quote thingy here.

He does love her and is worried about her. He can love his wife and not be attracted to her. He mentioned biology because biologically none of us should physically be attracted to somebody that large. 

As for your last part, no overweight people don't literally gain weight to spite their spouse but many comfort eat because of issues rather than face them. That is every bit their choice to do so, just as it is every bit the spouses right to find it unattractive.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuyWho View Post
Hold on a second. You are making a LOT of assumptions and are trying to infer that my lack of physical attraction and her weight gain is all my fault. Ridiculous. That is akin to saying that a choice for my wife to have an affair would be all my fault.
_
And you seem to be going out of your way to paint your spouse as a slacker, without discipline, disrespectful, and frankly malicious for not losing the weight. As if she is any happier being overweight._

*And you seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on your own experience with your significant other. I'm not that person. First of all, to clear any misperceptions, my wife is not a slacker. The subject is weight and I am addressing her weight management. Weight management/health has not been a priority for her. I can count off any number of ways in which she is not a "slacker." It is unfair to make that generalization. Malicious? Where did I say that or even imply that? Clearly there is no intent on her part.* 

There are so many things about this comment that makes me want to scream to be honest with you. Extreme weight is caused by unmet needs in the marriage? That is nuts. First, the only person who is responsible for her happiness is her. Second, we have been married for 20 years. Her weight gain has been constant throughout our marriage. If she has unmet needs in our marriage then it is her responsibility to communicate that to me. I want to make sure that her needs are met but this isn't a case of us reaching tough times in our marriage and her binge eating as a result. Even if she did then whose fault is it that she would choose that method to cope? Certainly not mine. Her weight management or lack of it is primarily because it is not important enough to her to do something about.

_To the bolded. Really?!?!?! That's avoidance. You are the closest person to her. You will play a vital role in how she feels about herself. In order for her to communicate with you she has to know that she can trust you with her deepest heartfelt emotions. Whose fault is it that she would choose that method to cope??!?!?! We all know that there are times that we don't deal with stress well. She could have chosen many other methods to cope that would be equally destructive, if not more so, to your marriage._

*No, that is not avoidance ... it is the truth. When it comes down to it she is the only one responsible for her happiness. I am here to support her in any way that I can and I have in countless ways now and over our 20 year marriage. I am here to encourage her and remain positive. However, I can't force her to be happy. If there is something that she is unhappy about and there is something I can do to support her, whether it involves me or not then she has to communicate that to me and she does. At the end of the day, she is the one responsible for making herself happy ... either by communicating when she needs support or I am not meeting her needs or simply by doing the things she needs to do to make her happy. You are the one that made the connection between her weight and her "unmet needs." I haven't always said or done the right thing. Who is perfect? However, if I have made a mistake then she needs to communicate that to me as well. 

Her weight management is something we've discussed countless times from all angles EXCEPT how it affects my level attraction to her. I am not going to SHAME her into losing weight. I have done everything I can think of when she chooses to make an attempt at losing weight. I have made the time, offered my help in so many ways, paid the expenses. I have invested a considerable amount of time, emotions, thought and money on this issue. 

Is it your husband that you don't trust with your deepest heartfelt emotions? We communicate about any number of challenges in her life and in our marriage. There is no way we could have gotten through 20 years without it. Some of it is VERY difficult but we've managed. Are we perfect communicators? No, sometimes learning to communicate is the challenge itself. Have I always responded in just the right way? No, I am not perfect. Has she? No, she is not perfect.

You said:

Whose fault is it that she would choose that method to cope??!?!?! 

You need to reread what I said. I said that she DOESN'T use eating as a coping mechanism. Now of course, we all do sometimes don't we ... but that is no more frequent for her than it is for me. Then I asked IF she did ... as in a "what if", whose fault would it be. Well, in that case it would be her fault. I wouldn't be the one forcing food down her mouth. In that case, am I supposed to be happy that she didn't pick a more destructive way to cope?*

EDIT: She does not have a medical condition that caused her weight. Her weight gain is not an emotional response to something missing in her life. Her weight gain is the result of thousands of poor choices made over 20 years. It is about a lack of self-discipline. Lack of self-discipline causes all sort of problems ... financial stress, stale career, addictions. The easy thing to do is blame your lack of discipline on your spouse ... it is all YOUR fault I'm this way.

_Lack of self-discipline....let's delve into that. It couldn't be a fear of failure? Let's face it at 330 pounds she is probably afraid that she won't be able to do it. Physically things are very difficult for her now. She would probably feel like she is dying just walking around the block. Or like she is starving (when her stomach is stretched). And when your life has been reduced to food you would feel deprived if you had to go without it. You're so busy lamenting her lack of discipline to empathise with any of that. It's not your fault that she is this way but you are doing, imho, alot to keep her this way._

*No, self-discipline in making thousands of poor choices in her life that led to her current weight. At any point she could have said, ok "enough is enough". Absolutely fear of failure is a huge factor in her inability to do something about it NOW. Overcoming fear of failure is something we have discussed at length in this and other areas of our life. It is something I struggle with myself in other areas of MY life. How do you get the impression that I'm so BUSY lamenting her lack of self-discipline. It is an observation. 

Empathy? You are sitting there saying I don't have empathy for her while you show absolutely no empathy for a person spending so much time, thought and emotion into solving the problem? 

Ok, let's talk about empathy. Two guys with the same education and the same income - The first guy makes thousands of positive financial choices over his career. He doesn't spend money he doesn't have. He saves his money. He doesn't buy more than he needs and doesn't purchase frivolous things. He plans his future. He is able to retire early with a nice house that he owns instead of the bank and spend the rest of his life with financial security. The second guy makes thousands of poor choices. He doesn't plan. He doesn't save. He lives paycheck to paycheck. He charges for things when he doesn't have the money to pay it back. He buys the biggest house he can afford with the nicest car. He spends frivolously - shopping constantly for whatever he wants. He takes wonderful vacations. This man reaches retirement and realizes he can't afford to retire. He has nothing. He spent it all living it up. He is now living on social security in a subsidized apartment working at wal-mart greeter. He laments that he has nothing. Now, is the first guy supposed to have empathy for the second guy? Really? Why should he? He might be generous and give this guy a helping hand but the second guy was responsible for the choices he made in life. Now before you go off on a rant, I understand that this isn't a perfect analogy BUT it demonstrates the affect that thousands of little choices can have over a lifetime that lead to where you are right now. Now, when my wife chooses to make a decision to do something about her weight, I can empathize with the struggle. I can empathize with fear of failure. I can support her in a thousand ways. I cannot empathize that she is the one who put her there in the first place.

So tell me; what am I doing a LOT of to keep her this way? Are you talking about me or somebody else? *

Shame her into losing weight? I have NEVER said anything about how her weight affects my level of attraction to her. I have internalized all of that. Some guys harp on their wives to stay fit and make offhand comments or are downright insulting when their wives gain an extra 10 pounds. That is not this guy. That is something that I have kept to myself for years. I have been the guy fixing the broken toilet seats, replacing chairs broken by her, spending thousands in medical expenses ... all because of her weight ... but have said nothing about how unappealing I find it.

_Right. So you say your wife is a poor communicator but never communicated anything to her? Were you busy paying her false compliments? Maybe you never said anything negative but did you ever say anything postive? Likely you adopted the motto better to be quiet than to say something negative. In the mean time you pull away from her. You think she doesn't sense that or notice how you treat her differently?_

*I did not say my wife is a poor communicator. That is your faulty leap in logic. You essentially implied that unmet needs is why she is at her extreme weight. I said that if she has unmet needs then she needs to communicate with me. You are assuming that she MUST have unmet needs that she isn't communicating and that is why she is where she is. There is some faulty logic. I believe she is communicating most, if not all of her needs to me in some way shape or form. If she is keeping something from me that she needs then she will have to say it, I can't read her mind. She owns that. I own the responsibility of listening.

Now, we have communicated about her weight (and a million other topics) for years. I find it a little hypocritical that you are suggesting I never say anything positive and yet criticize me for not communicating how it affects my level of attraction. Further down in this post you accuse me of giving her cheap compliments. Which is it? 

We talk about her weight from a health perspective, for her and for our children. While I have been tempted during times of extreme frustration, I have resisted tearing her down by tying it to attraction. Exactly how would you like me to do that without tearing her down? I have been searching everywhere for feedback on that.

She does not respond well to negativity. She responds well to people building her up instead of tearing her down. I try my best. I'm not perfect and sometimes it is difficult but I try.

You are right, I do pull away from the physical nature of our relationship. OF COURSE, I know that she knows that. Why do you think I spend so MUCH of my time trying to figure this out? It isn't what I want. If I didn't care so darn much, I would have divorced her a long time ago. I WANT this to work. * 

I have tried so many things to encourage her to lose weight without actually telling her that her weight is a problem. I've taken over grocery shopping, primarily so that I can ensure I limit the snack foods and have healthy food in the house. I have done the research and suggested that we try this meal or that. I have tried to get her to participate with me on doing active things; some as simple as just taking a walk. I've supported all her 'miracle cures' that she wants to try. I have purchased expensive cardio equipment, paid for her gym memberships and changed my schedule around so that she can workout during her short-lived attempts to get more fit. There really isn't much more I can do. Ultimately it is up to her. Yet, I have done all of this without saying one thing about how unattractive I find it.
_
What you are saying is that she can only prove her "effort" by losing weight. When will it be enough for you? 10lbs before she loses enough? 20? What if she backslides? Losing weight is a discouraging process when you physically can't breath. What if she attends the gym for a year regularly but still has a problem binging and her weightloss stagnates. You've put so many positive tallies in your own column but negate her efforts at every turn. No wonder she tries different things._

*No, what I am saying is ultimately she has to lose the weight if that is what she chooses to do. I cannot lose the weight for her. I can't workout for her. I can't eat for her. I CAN support her and encourage her and I am "ALL IN" for that.

I am well aware of the difficulties in losing weight. Fitness IS a hobby of mine. I am aware of the dramatic weight loss followed by the plateaus, followed by slower weight loss, followed by setbacks. It is a long and difficult process. I do not want her to lose dramatic weight quickly. It would be unhealthy if she did. Again, I will repeat ... she DOESN'T BINGE. I buy the food in the house. I do the finances. I know where she goes during the day. I take out the garbage and clean her car. She has never been a binge eater. 

This is not a case of me against her. I am not checking off positives for me and negatives for her. I use the example of a balance sheet to illustrate a point but that is all it is. I am not saying that I am better than her ... I am saying I am not attracted to her because she is morbidly obese. Exactly what am I negating? If you mean that she has tried numerous things and they have all failed? Yes, I am negating that. Why? Because she refuses to take the one approach that never fails. That frustrates me more than anything. Because she is looking for quick solutions in our quick solution world. I'm sorry but there are no quick solutions. It requires a change in lifestyle. I think I have been more than supportive in all her other efforts. I am trying to figure this out and it is killing me. I have nothing left to seem to try and that makes this very emotional for me. Yet I also know if I keep on trying I will come up with a new approach. At the end of the day, it is still up to her. *

I am the thin person in my marriage. Why? Because I spend hours and hours in the gym. During the summers, I take my girls out on long bicycle rides, go hiking among other things to help maintain my fitness and encourage them to do the same. I am the one getting up early in the morning to get to the gym before work. I have done this for years. I do the things that a lot of people aren't willing to do. I "take the stairs". Now you imply that well ... you are the lucky one to be the thin person in your relationship. No, it is an investment I made in myself ... there is nothing lucky about it.

_All of this may be so. But you don't need to aggrandize yourself to make yourself feel superior. Did your wife used to do all this stuff with you? My guess is that you took enjoyment out hiking and bicycling. You were thin, it wasn't difficult, and it was quality time with the kids. But did she like doing these things before she put on weight? If yes what stopped her from doing these things? If no, why not? And while you were out doing these things, without her, what did you leave her to do on her own? I understand that you have limited time in your day, but it is imperetive if you want to keep your marriage in tact that you find mutual things that you enjoy doing together without judging your spouse for not wanting to do or being able to do what you want her to do. It's going to take a long time for her to lose weight. Are you going to spend that time distancing yourself from her? And for the record, yes, you were lucky._

*Aggrandize myself? You have to be kidding me. First of all, I don't need to feel superior. She is my superior in a number of ways. There are qualities about her that I don't possess and never will. Second, no, what I'm saying is that I am the thin person BECAUSE I have literally put thousands of hours into the gym, on the road and in the kitchen. It wasn't because I am lucky. I very well could be very overweight right now at 45 years old if I hadn't done those things. When I could no longer rely on my youth to keep me at a reasonable size, I found myself getting overweight and unhealthy and that is when I did the 180. That isn't aggrandizing myself, it is the truth.

You said this:

Did your wife used to do all this stuff with you? My guess is that you took enjoyment out hiking and bicycling. You were thin, it wasn't difficult, and it was quality time with the kids.

No, she had long past being active before we had children. My children are now 11 and 8. She was too overweight to do these things before even the youngest was old enough to do any of this. I am all for doing anything active with her. ANYTHING she wants to do, I am game. I don't need to make that decision for her about what those things are and it doesn't take much to keep me happy. It is her choice to not do active things. I do those things with my children to set the example for them. 

You said:

And while you were out doing these things, without her, what did you leave her to do on her own? 

I don't even know where to go with that. I guess I would start by saying that any counselor worth their salt would tell you it is important to do things together but it is also important to have your own things. This is one of my things. It could be our thing if she so chose and I have tried numerous ways to get her interested in something active but she hasn't been interested. We are adults. She doesn't need me to fill every second of her day nor does she want me to.
*

It isn't as if I am the guy ready to kick my wife to the curb because she has gained an extra 30 lbs when she gave me my children and can't seem to take it off. That isn't me. My wife wasn't thin (ie, "hot bod") when I married her; she was a normal girl with some extra weight who I still found attractive because of who she was. For me the connection is what drives attraction ... to a point. Now she has literally doubled her body weight. She looks nothing like the woman I married. 330lbs is extremely large. She has related health problems. She sleeps with a machine because of weight induced apnea. She has nerve damage and tremors in her feet and legs because of her weight. We can't sleep in the same bed primarily because of her weight and related issues. When we do have sex, we are now very limited because of her extreme size. There are things she can't do around the house that I now have to do. It has more of an impact than simply my physical attraction.

_I get that, I really do. But this isn't going to change overnight. You can either cut the cord, or invest emotionally in your relationship. It's not fair for you, your children, or her for you to check out on her but stay in this relationship. Commit or don't commit. There is a big difference between being supportive and enabling. Have you been enabling her thinking you have been supporting?
_

*I am well aware this isn't going to change overnight. It took years to put the weight on and it will take a couple of years to take it off (in a healthy manner). I don't know how you think I am not committed from everything I've said. I also don't know how you think I've been enabling from everything you've said. Now, even though I think I've tried almost every angle I can think of to help her lose weight ... there is one that I haven't. Crushing her soul by telling her how I find her unattractive. If that is enabling in spite of every other effort then so be it. Personally, I think that will be disabling because she will give up and her walls will go up. Not only will she do nothing about it but that will pretty much end our relationship. That is my quandary. Do I risk losing the marriage to save the marriage? Have I tried everything else first?

You have NO idea the things I have gone through to keep this marriage. Most people I know would have long given up and many have told me so. Again, I am not aggrandizing myself. I am letting YOU know because you seem to assert that I have done nothing but destroy this marriage.*

So, you think I'm shallow because no jedi mind trick available can make me find somebody with all of that fat attractive? What is the line? Is 330lbs not large enough for you? If she gains an extra 200lbs and becomes bedridden, am I still shallow because I don't desire her? This isn't about love. I love her for who she is. This is about sexual attraction. What if it wasn't weight? ... which seems to be a taboo for people. What if it was hygiene? What if the person you married stopped taking showers on a regular basis and emitted a strong body odor you find repulsive. Is it shallow because you find that odor objectionable? What if they stopped brushing their teeth and eventually their teeth started rotting out. Is it all that shallow to not want to kiss them?

_This paragraph, imho, is full of baloney. You say you love her for who she is but weren't you just saying that who she is is someone who lacks self-discipline? Weren't you just implying that she takes advantage of your good nature? Weren't you just saying that she is a slacker? I don't see why you love her at all._

*Are u kidding me? She lacks self-discipline in this area of her life and you think that defines my love for her? Again, I didn't say she is a slacker. There are many areas of her life that she is quite disciplined in and she is not a slacker. She has MANY qualities that I love her for. She has some that I do not. It isn't either I love everything about her or I do not love her. There is no couple alive where both partners can't find fault with the other.* 

At what point does it become not shallow when you don't desire a person sexually?

Because it is a falsity to say that sex is just sex. You obviously have underlying issues with her that effect your sex drive and you gloss it over with "if she only tried." Like she would be ever so sexy to you if she ate an apple instead of a snickers. There is a feeling that she doesn't love you enough because she doesn't lose the weight. I understand that men have a need for an attractive partner. But I also know that marriages don't fall apart singlehandedly. I know that if she doesn't feel like you respect her then she won't have the motivation to lose this weight. Which leads to you not feeling satisfied etc etc it's cycle that needs to be broken. If you want to focus on just the weight and build up your superiority --- that's shallow. If you want to address the obvious underlying issues...that's not.

*You said: Because it is a falsity to say that sex is just sex. You obviously have underlying issues with her that effect your sex drive and you gloss it over with "if she only tried."

First of all, why do you assume that it CAN'T possibly be that I find her weight to be completely unattractive? That it must be some underlying issue and if that is resolved then the weight wouldn't be a problem. I can tell you this, if she was even just a reasonable weight; a woman I can put my arms around, there would be a lot more action in the bedroom. Most of them time when I think I'm so horny I can't stand it, I see her and think ... yeesh ... sorry, I can't. To be blunt, those folds of fat all over her body, on her back, and under her chin along with the cottage cheese look going on under her arms and between her legs are a MAJOR turnoff. In my book, that is gross. I'm sorry but it is NOT true that a man just needs a hole to stick it into. Some men perhaps, not most men. 

I had a conversation with my boss tonight. He's met my wife a number of times and had just seen her on a trip to Cancun this past January. He was telling me that his workouts were really increasing his T-Levels and he had just had a discussion with his wife that their pattern of having sex every two weeks was not enough. He's 51, she's 45. The topic surprised me because although we are old friends, this is a little TMI ... but I said, yeah ... let me see ... I've had sex once this year ... and he interrupted me and said, yeah ... well you have a different situation. I really can't blame you. I said ... yeah ... I just ... it sucks man. I don't know what to do ... and I'm not getting any younger. 

He's not blind. 

No sex isn't just sex and physical attraction involves a lot of things. In another post, I liken it to a balance sheet. Everybody has negatives and positives ... EVERYBODY and I'm well aware of many of mine. Some of the things involved in physical attraction, especially in a long relationship as opposed to first time encounters or young relationships, are not physical things at all. For me, her increasing weight is a significant part of the balance sheet. For her many good attributes both physical and emotional, that balance sheet is in the negative. I cannot find that extreme weight attractive. I never have in my entire life found morbid obesity attractive, whether it is her or anybody else. She was overweight when I married her but that didn't matter to me. She wasn't obese by any stretch but she wasn't thin. As I've said before, the connection is what made her attractive to me. A DMZ has been crossed, a point in which the weight has a very significant impact on my attraction to her. 

No marriage has ever fallen apart without both partners contributing to it. If our marriage does fail, I will be taking plenty of the blame. I have already taken this specific issue and made it my own. I ask the question of myself constantly: How do I help her with this? What can I do or say? It is a constant debate in my mind. I have never said that she "fails" to lose the weight because of a lack of love for me. It DOES bother me that despite all of our discussions about the health consequences that she doesn't do it for herself or for her children. There is a debate that rages in me that says on the one hand she has unintentionally robbed me of her desire for her (not because of a lack of love) but on the other hand, this is my problem. She is not the one who has this problem. I do. I am the one who finds the weight unattractive. You make it sound like I'm some uncaring idiot who hasn't put an ounce of thought into this and puts all the blame on her. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Respect her? There are many things I respect and there are some things I don't. Those words ... DO NOT RESPECT ... have never come out of my mouth but I do not keep it to myself if I though something needed improvement while keeping it as constructive as possible. Like any marriage, we have battles. There are things she doesn't respect about me and likewise. That is true of every couple. I DO have a lot of respect for her and I let her know about those things frequently. However, at the end of the day, she needs to worry about what she thinks about herself more than what I think of her. She knows that; I know that. We both struggle with that with each other and we have talked at length about it. In fact, we talked in length about one aspect of that last night as it pertains to some problems she is having with a teacher she is working with, using some of our issues as an example.

"If you want to focus on just the weight and build up your superiority --- that's shallow."

I don't know why you keep thinking I have this need to build up a feeling of superiority. I am a flawed person; so is she. It is normal. She is my superior in many ways; and I am hers in other ways. This isn't a contest. I learn things from her and she learns things from me. 

If you want to address the obvious underlying issues...that's not.

What exactly are these obvious underlying issues you keep bringing up? Again, is this some reference to your belief I am to blame for her weight gain over these last 20 years? We have underlying issues in our marriage. We are addressing them. You don't have a 20 year marriage without having issues. It takes a lot of work and that work never ends. For some people, weight gain is the result of coping. I do not believe this is the case for her. Despite the health consequences, she has accepted herself as a large person. I don't believe that fixing whatever issues we have is going to change that. It certainly isn't going to result in me finding her weight attractive. I am sure she would be quite happy if she lost the weight but I am also sure that she can be quite happy without losing it too. This isn't her problem, it is mine. *

So, apparently all of this shouldn't matter and I should desire them sexually because I love them. Anything less than that is shallow? No, I love my mother and my sister. I don't want to have sex with them. I am sure Mother Theresa was an amazing person who I would love if I knew her ... still wouldn't make me want to jump her bones. There are many things that I love and respect about my wife but that is different than sexual attraction and unfortunately sexual attraction is part of the equation in a marital relationship. It is unlikely that you married a person you weren't physically attracted to, that is likely part of what brought you together in the first place. The intimacy you shared, both emotional and physical, likely heightened that sexual attraction but it isn't the whole story. There are still physical characteristics that are part of that equation ... physical characteristics that you associate with the emotional connection. What happens when not only those physical characteristics go away but they become something that you aren't just neutral to but have always found unattractive?

_I think that if you were to ask her you have changed in many ways that she doesn't find attractive. Maybe not physically but mentally and emotionally. I'm not saying that you have to jump her bones every day. At this point she would probably be self-concious and she would look at you like you were crazy. What I am saying that you do is stop paying her cheap compliments like it's all you can manage. Find other ways to physically connect with her like holding her hand and hugging. Not because you "have to" but because you want to. For women sex is an extension of their emotions for someone. Just because you are thin doesn't mean you are physically attractive to her. Let me repeat that. Her need to have sex with you derives from her feelings toward you. If her weight becomes an obstacle to her real desire to be physically intimate with you she will be more likely to lose the weight. If you shame her, wittingly or unwittingly, she will dig in her heels and fall into the "you would love no matter what stance".
_

*Well, I appreciate that little dig ... I MUST have deteriorated mentally and emotionally and have MANY problems in that area, lol. No, obviously there are things about me she finds unattractive just as there are things about her outside of her weight that I find unattractive. That is completely normal. I have personality quarks that she doesn't find attractive and she has told me so. I am in continuous self-improvement and I will be for the rest of my life. Nobody is any different in this regard. As I said, it is a balance sheet. I am in the negative on hers. Why? Because she needs that emotional connection and it isn't as strong as it used to be. She absolutely associates an emotional connection with affection. Why is my emotional connection with her not as strong? Largely because an emotional connection is strengthened by a physical connection. I don't have that with her largely because I am not attracted to her physically and that is largely due to her weight. She is in the negative on my balance sheet. It may be the only thing that you've said all along that rings true. However, my desire to be affectionate with her; hold hands, hold her, snuggle up to her IS very much influenced by my attraction to her. It is a conundrum. At the end of the day, the single BIGGEST factor that makes me unattractive to her is that I am not attracted to her. 

"What I am saying that you do is stop paying her cheap compliments like it's all you can manage."

I have to wonder if you are you projecting again? You don't know me very well. I usually don't pay compliments that I don't mean. Compliments about her physical appearance? No, I don't. I usually say nothing. I prefer that over cheap compliments. There are many areas in which I do compliment her and very much mean it. I compliment positive actions because I have respect for that more than anything. 

Ok, so you think I need to "find other ways to physically connect with her like holding her hand and hugging. Not because you "have to" but because you want to." I'm sorry but I will "have to" before I "want to." I don't know how most people are. I am affectionate with my children but they are my children. I am not normally affectionate with others. I used to be very affectionate with my wife but I was also very attracted to her. There needs to be some level of attraction to want to do that. No, it doesn't mean I did it to have sex with her; but we had a level of intimacy where I wanted to do that. We aren't there now. I can't just be affectionate because I love her ... that's almost where I could give the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech. That level of physical intimacy is just not there and not having sex is a large part of that. I could when I was young because it was all new and fresh and exciting. If you read the infidelity thread, you'll see a lot cheating spouses often minimize and say "it was just a kiss" or "we just made out once." When you are an adult, you know that kissing means having sex ... it doesn't normally mean just kissing.

You said:

Let me repeat that. Her need to have sex with you derives from her feelings toward you. 

I have been married for 20 years. I am WELL aware of that. However, that is not the whole picture. Even when we were young and she was head over heels in love with me, she wasn't nearly as sexually active as others I had in my life previously. She does not naturally have a high sex drive. However, her sex drive is higher than nothing and she needs from me what I am unable to provide her right now. Why? Because I don't desire her because of her weight! The unmet need that she has is not what created her extreme weight ... it is BECAUSE of her extreme weight.

You said:

If her weight becomes an obstacle to her real desire to be physically intimate with you she will be more likely to lose the weight.

This I do not agree with. At no time, good or bad, has she ever felt truly motivated to lose weight. She has "tried" to lose weight but she has never been all in. I don't believe a need to have sex with me is enough of a motivating factor for her. It will likely have to be a combination of reasons; I just haven't figure out the combination yet.

Do you hate men for some reason, lol? I mean, you stop nothing short of blaming me for her weight. First it's her weight is because I'm not meeting her needs ... and then it's well, she would want to lose the weight if she really desired me and therefore I must not be desirable.

So, I need to fake it but mean it. I have to be the perfect husband and be the affectionate guy I was when I married her, get rid of whatever mental or emotional issues I have and god knows what else ... and she will likely find me so attractive that she has no choice but to make it her top priority to lose weight because only then will she want to have sex with me. Yes, I made that sound ridiculous on purpose ... because it is. I am all about self-improvement. I WANT to be a good husband to her and I make that effort. Again, I have to ask ... do you hate men? Because I would have to hold myself to an impossibly high standard before you might even suggest that ... well, maybe she has some culpability in her extreme weight. 

I guarantee you if I walked upstairs right now, walked into her bedroom, took my clothes off while "affectionately taking her off her sleep machine" and told her I wanted to fvck her brains out right now ... she would be all over that. 

*

It cuts both ways. Prior to marriage, I had the girlfriend with the hot body. She was stunning. Blonde and beautiful. Exactly my type. When I met her I was immediately aroused. She was my type for about a month before I discovered what she was all about. Not a good person. I lost all sexual attraction for her because of who she was.

_Great. But again it's not an all or one proposition. In your wifes case you make it out all to be about the fat. On the other all about the personality. It's not like that._

It isn't like that? Really? No, I will agree physical attraction isn't black and white as I've mentioned many times. It can be an all or none proposition. In my wife's case, despite problems in our relationship I can tell you that our lack of sex IS a direct result of her obesity. In the other example, it was pretty much like that too. She was nails on a chalkboard. Was I repulsed by her appearance? Certainly not initially. Initially, that was the best sex I ever had. Then her personality just wore me down. I began to see her differently and eventually I just couldn't stand her. It was like nails on a chalkboard. For all the good personality traits that my wife has, she had all the bad ones. My other relationships weren't like that. They ended for one reason or the other but physical attraction (on my part anyway) was never really an issue. I did prevent some relationships because of a lack of physical attraction. I have a "type" just like most other guys do. 

EDIT: Ok, let's imagine a scenario. Tonight is date night and you and your husband are planning to go out for a nice dinner and then make love later in the evening. You get up in the morning and want to spend the day outside on a nice summer day working on your garden. You haven't showered in a couple of days and you skip brushing your teeth ... doesn't matter, you are spending the day outside anyway. You come into the house an hour or so before it's time to leave and you are dripping with sweat and completely filthy. You are starving so you rip open a bag of cheetos and devour them. Your teeth are orange and you badly need to floss. You are a wreck. You think to yourself, well I'm filthy and I need to get ready but wow, I'm tired from working all day and cramping a bit because I'm on my period ... screw it, he loves me because of who I am and not what I look like so I'll just take a nap instead. He comes home and you tell him that you already had a snack so let's skip dinner and make love ... are you really going to be offended if he takes one look at you and says "honey, you know I love you but .... ewwww" What exactly is the difference between that and 200 lbs of extra fat added since the day you got married? Time?






Fledgling said:


> I think it's really disengenuous. I know guys who have taken downright ugly women to bed. Women who didn't brush their teeth or shave their legs. Happens in bars all the time. Just to get laid. I've seen women who's husband works a farm and comes home rank and has sex just because she's horny. You're example is a one time time instance. Your problem is built up resentment over _years_ and alot of dissillusionment. Again to reiterate this amount of weight will take a year or more to come off and will be a constant battle for her. When will her weightloss be enough that you will magically want her again? This is not the same as cleaning up after a long day. (BTW the smart spouse will offer to find sexy ways to get him clean.  )
> 
> ETA: Sorry about the quotes. I tried to put all my responses in red. Also I apologized if my tones was insulting. It's a passionate topic for me.


Ok so you are comparing me and my marriage to a lonely guy who went to drink at the bar specifically so he could get laid that night. Yes, people do those things but that wasn't the point of my story. Personally, weight is a bigger problem for me than ugly and a woman soaked in sweat from being active is a HUGE turn-on. My point is that you can't *blame* the guy if he said "honey, you know I love you but .... ewwww". Now, there is no question that there is resentment built up; resentment built out of frustration. However, as horny as I can be, it just takes one look at cottage cheese arms and I am turned off. In both cases, the man found SOMETHING about the person that made him (or me) say "honey, you know I love you but ....." It just happens that one can be remedied by a quick shower and the other will take several years to fix.

There is no demarcation point for when I will "magically" find her attractive. It is a long slow process for her to take off the weight just as it was a long slow process for her to gain the weight, become increasingly unattractive to me to the point that I no longer desired her. Balance sheet. There is no magical weight. Suppose for instance, she made an earnest effort to take off the weight. Suppose it is a cooperate effort and through that we are able to make progress together as a team. I would guess that my attraction would increase sooner rather than later. Progress is all it takes. If we are bonding as a result then it very well could be sooner. If she goes it on her own then it may be slower because we don't also have the same bonding experience. There is no definitive answer. I won't know until it happens. If I wasn't willing to wait to find out, we probably wouldn't be together right now.

(BTW the smart spouse will offer to find sexy ways to get him clean. )

I have no choice but to "read into" this comment as a parting shot based on what you've said prior to this. Holding true to the analogy, I may not be smart enough to figure out how to clean my wife up.


*At my office, I have 3 coworkers who work in my department who about 3 years ago weighed a combined 1100lbs. One of the guys came into the office after a sitdown by his wife. His wife basically told him that his weight was starting to become a problem; she loved him but she was concerned about his health ... and yes, she found him unattractive. That is why they didn't have sex anymore. He was in tears most of the day. It took him awhile for it to sink in but our company offered a class in self-improvement; a 3 day offsite course. He came back and decided that enough was enough; he was going to take control. He asked me to help him design a workout plan for the gym and then he had his wife help him develop a plan to run in his first 5K. He kept at it; completely changed his diet and started working out daily. The weight started to come off. Of course he had difficulties with it leveling but he kept at it and more of it started coming off. He ran his first 5K that year and then several more. Then at the end of the year he ran his first mini. Keep in mind, this is a guy who said it took him a week before he could run to the end of his street without stopping for air. The next year (last year) he ran another mini and then he ran his first full marathon. He is now training for a half ironman. Another guy in the department saw all the progress and asked for help. This guy has now completed his first marathon. Yet a third guy asked for help. He is running his first mini this spring. 

Total combined starting weight: 1100 lbs.
Total combined weight loss: > 600 lbs.

I work with these guys every day. They are just normal guys. Their before and after pictures are stunning. If you asked any one of them if their spouse had any complicity in making them "fat" they would tell you their spouse had NOTHING to do with it. They would laugh at the suggestion. It was all on them and it was all on them to fix ... and they did.*


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Originally Posted by JustSomeGuyWho View Post
> 
> 
> *And you seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on your own experience with your significant other. I'm not that person. First of all, to clear any misperceptions, my wife is not a slacker. The subject is weight and I am addressing her weight management. Weight management/health has not been a priority for her. I can count off any number of ways in which she is not a "slacker." It is unfair to make that generalization. Malicious? Where did I say that or even imply that? Clearly there is no intent on her part.*
> ...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

The double/triple/quadruple quoting is getting kind of hard to follow. 

But, I will ask this question, JustSomeGuyWho, 



> I buy the food in the house.


So - what kind of food are you buying? Are you buying food you can "afford" eat because of your high work out schedule (caloric wise, not finance wise.) Or - are you buying food your wife should be eating? Something in the middle?

Which, my ultimate goal here isn't to blame or excuse her weight gain, but as a query, something based on my own experience, and from information I got the other day during a visit to a nutritionist. 

I myself am the sole grocery-buyer (well, besides asking him to pick up milk on the way home from work from time to time), and I myself am now on the road to weight loss myself (yes, I'm a "fat wife" - there, I said it.) Given that change (since January) - I've noticed the power I have to make choices of the general health of both of us, based on that alone. 

My husband is six feet tall, and weighs a 31 waist pant. He's a very tall, lean man. He isn't that way because he works out, he's never stepped foot into a gym or gone for a run since the day we got married. He doesn't have weights, he doesn't work out at all. He works a relatively sedentary job at a desk as a banker. So, apparently, he's that way by some miracle of metabolism alone, though that might change as he gets older. 

So - if our diet (or at least our dinners, as that's the meal he's home to eat) was based on his ability to absorb the calories by miracles unknown, I'd no doubt be even heavier.

So, this is an area in which you have power to start changing the situation in some degrees, if you haven't already. Which, if you already do these things (honestly, trying to plow through the back and forth and make out the different fonts and colors is making my eyes spin), feel free to ignore this, and take it as a suggestion with a grain of salt. 



> No, self-discipline in making thousands of poor choices in her life that led to her current weight.


I'm not going to start debating that point, as that's a philosophical question kind of beyond the depth I want to try and delve into. But I will say, which you can't -force- her to make the right choices, I can say you can attempt to create an environment in which there is "less harm feedback" - IE, less availability of harmful choices. And it relates to the first quote. 

You buy all the groceries, and you comment that she doesn't seem to be leaving the house to eat junk food, nor seems to be binge eating, so - there might need to be some changes in what kinds of food are brought into the house. If it isn't the -amount- of food, than it might the quality, caloric count, or type of it. To "go all in" might require that the whole household change in some ways, not just her. Yes, ultimately her weight loss is up to her, and yes, ultimately you can't force her, but what you can do is work to make home the most productive environment it can be towards that effort. 

IE - you can't order double-cheese pepperoni pizza for you and the kids, and expect her to sit there and eat a salad. You need to consider everyone having the appropriate amount of pizza (2 slices) with a salad. Will people be happy with that, well, no probably not at first, but - really, it's how everyone should be eating anyways. 

While I'm not a psychologist or a dietician by any stretch of the imagination, something is causing your wife to be in a hunger-feedback loop where she's eating above and beyond what is "physical" hunger, and she's entering into the "emotional eating" zone. Is that based on something "missing in her life" - I have no idea. But, it could be psychosomatic, she could have a food addiction, wherein her consumption is tied to her serotonin levels. And - given that amount of weight gain is no doubt tied to some kind of insulin resistance or "metabolic syndrome" - I'd consider reducing the household in take of carbs. 

Which, if for no other reason, work with the assumption that your wife has a genetic makeup apparently inclined towards weight gain. Some changes to the household might ensure that the kids don't fall into that loop, and learn healthy eating as well as healthy exercise habits. 

But - if you fall into the trap of she could make better choices, and she's at fault for lacking self-discipline, when you have at least some degree of power over the situation (which is unusual compared to most causes where the "fat wife" does the shopping) this might prevent you from doing what you could to take this bull by the horns, so to speak.


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

Bottom line.... Lots of Fat is simply NOT attractive nor sexy to most people. Beauty..... it is not all learned.... It is what it is. 

This is what this man is struggling with. If someone is Waayyy over weight they cannot expect anyone to find them sexually attractive. There are rare individuals that get into that....but they are not the norm.

That is how it is Fledgling. No amount of arguments will change it. Fat is not pretty or sexy or appealing to most people. Period.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Interesting comments; some I agree with; some I don't; some I think are assumptions you are making without considering the context of this thread.

... but I do have a day job so later


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> Just read on the internet (yeah I know you can't believe everything on the net, but it sounds reasonable) that experts say if a spouse gains 20% of their total body weight that divorce is more likely.


This study merely pointed out a correlation. Divorce is more likely when under 25 years old or when household income is less than 50k as well. It's more common when either partner has divorced parents.

I have to believe there's a very small percent of people who would divorce their partner for gaining 20% of their body weight especially if they can see them trying to be healthy.

If one partner truly feels like the other partner isn't doing their part in the relationship whether it's physical appearance or other aspects then it's going to increase stress and it's going to affect how invested the spouse is in their marriage.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> The double/triple/quadruple quoting is getting kind of hard to follow.
> 
> But, I will ask this question, JustSomeGuyWho,
> 
> ...


We have made a lot of mistakes in this area. Keep in mind that we have been married for 20 years. Things have changed a lot in 20 years and what we know now as healthy is different than 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

I have not always done the grocery shopping. There was quite some number of years before I took over.

Not long after is when I did my "180" on my health. I moved both of us to a higher protein, fewer calorie diet. More meals, fewer carbs, fewer calories in each meal. I did switch our carbs to browns ... brown rice, wheat products, sweet instead of white potatoes. It was the conventional knowledge. I was stricter with the diet and supplemented with additional protein. She had a difficult time with the increased number of meals and would often skip ... the end result being eating a large dinner for herself. I would say this probably slowed her weight gain but didn't stop it. At this point, she was already obese.

Current day. I still right now tend to eat many smaller meals. Higher protein. I do eat a lot. I eat a lot more now than when I was getting heavy but I eat more frequently and never a lot at one time. She has not done that over the last several years. She will eat a snack, lunch and then a large dinner. Our routine has changed significantly recently though. She is going back to school for a mid-life career change. She is in an accelerated program 9-month program to get certified for teaching K-6 and it takes up most of her time. She leaves early in the morning and does a good job of making a high protein breakfast for herself, usually eggs. I get back from the gym when she is about to leave and I make breakfast for me and the girls. She packs an OK lunch. Not a lot of food and not a lot of carbs. We typically make pack lunches together with the kids in the evening. Dinner is still a problem; when she makes it, it is carb heavy. 

She is predisposed to gaining weight. There is no question about it. Over 20 years, she has gained slowly but steadily. It really doesn't take much ... a little more than half a pound a month is what it would take over that time to get to her current weight. There's really no period of time I can point to where she had rapid increases in weight. It's hard to tell. She gained some for each of the two kids but not a lot relative to the rest of our marriage. She was already getting into morbidly obese "territory" when we had children. 

What I get at the grocery store now ... well, I don't buy a lot of packaged foods. Meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables are the bulk of it. We do still maintain the brown carbs in the home and I always have oatmeal. I buy one snack for me and the kids and one snack for her. It varies what she chooses for a snack but it is usually decent ... peanuts, almonds or pistachios are favorite choices. I do try to watch for hidden calories. I would say that my shopping list is pretty bland. I hit two stores every weekend so I don't buy large quantities of food at a time, only enough to get us through the week.

She does usually eat out a couple times a week but I have really limited her spend for that. She used to eat out a lot more and there was one stretch a few years back that she ate out constantly with the kids and I had to put a stop to that. Now, she'll go out to lunch once a week with her classmates and then after church every sunday. Those are two times I have no knowledge of what she eats. There are exceptions. My daughters have all sorts of activities so we are always running around and there are occasions where she'll stop for fast food if she has one of the kids out. It isn't a weekly thing. We don't typically order in. Things like Pizza is rare.

Just last week I turned her on to two audio books that talk about carb intake and healthy diets. She was responsive to it so I hope that will help. I think she is a lot more likely to follow that advice than mine. She has had nutritionists in the past but she had been diagnosed as pre-diabetic and that was their focus, not necessarily weight loss.

So, I think it is an area that 20 years ago we started in complete ignorance and have progressively improved.

You said:

But - if you fall into the trap of she could make better choices, and she's at fault for lacking self-discipline, when you have at least some degree of power over the situation (which is unusual compared to most causes where the "fat wife" does the shopping) this might prevent you from doing what you could to take this bull by the horns, so to speak. 

When I said that, it was an observation. I apply that observation to my own life in areas in which I feel that I am insufficient. Where I am right now is based on a series of choices that I've made. Some of them have been poor choices and some of them are good choices. Raising my daughters, I have a responsibility to give them the tools they need to make good choices as adults, better assuring their success. That is my philosophy. 

However, I am not in the blame game. I don't care a lot about how we got here but I do care about the choices we make now. Sitting back and placing blame while absolving myself of any responsibility accomplishes nothing. There is some truth to "if you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem." Fledgling appears to believe I am ENTIRELY the problem but I'll get to her response later, lol.

So, I have a problem. Whether Fledgling believes it or not, I look at my wife and see just how large she is, and I feel no attraction to that, no matter how I feel about her otherwise. I need to fix that problem. I am here primarily to generate ideas for myself and at the same time share my story with others. It is helpful to know that I am not the only one. I appreciate the feedback.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Fledgling, 

Don't have time to answer all at once so one at a time ....

I said:

I think I have been more than supportive in all her other efforts. I am trying to figure this out and it is killing me. I have nothing left to seem to try and that makes this very emotional for me. Yet I also know if I keep on trying I will come up with a new approach. At the end of the day, it is still up to her.

Your response:

I think the above clearly demonstrates your conflict. You know that if you try a new approach it will cause her to lose weight? yet it's up to her? Come again? SSeriously. Stop trying to solve the "weight" problem as if it is the only barrier to an otherwise great marriage and look at finding a new way to invigorate your marrige.

My response:

You misread this. I essentially said I am at the end of my rope, searching for new ideas on how to influence (read: lead) her to a different lifestyle that will result in her losing the weight. However, I know that I will continue to come up with new ideas and therefore I will keep trying. I didn't say I know that new approach will do the trick. I also know that ultimately it is up to her. The approach I use needs to lead to her choice to actually do it. She needs to do the hard work. I need to figure out the right combination of buttons to push to lead her in that direction. I can't do the hard work for her. Where is the conflict in that? 

So here is what I surmise is your premise. Her weight issue is caused by a bad marriage. She has an unmet need(s) that is causing her to reach this extreme weight. Now, because she continues to have these unmet needs in combination with my theoretical emotional and mental instability that causes her to find me undesirable, she doesn't have a motivation to lose the weight. Being the bad husband that I am, I don't care about solving those problems. All I care about is that she lose the weight so that I can find her attractive enough to have sex with. Furthermore, my stated problem of not being attracted to her because of her weight is not legitimate. I must have some other problem with her ... or I hate women and am playing for the wrong team. The solution to this is to make sure that I understand what these unmet needs are and make sure that they are all fulfilled ... and apparently fix my mental and emotional problems too. I need to disregard my needs entirely and commit; all my focus should be on fulfilling all her needs because that is the only solution to fulfilling all my needs. At this point, I will have bonded so tightly with her that my imaginary repulsion to her weight will disappear and I will be overwhelmed with desire for her. She could gain another 200lbs and be bedridden and I will still get aroused by the mere thought of her because we are so happy together. That won't happen though because she will be enlightened and see that the only barrier left between her and true happiness is her weight and only then will she be motivated to take control of that issue. We will then live happily ever after.

... or something like that.

Sounds a little snarkey, I admit, but snarkey is exactly how you come off.

Sounds great. First, let's put this into context. The posts on this thread are primarily about weight so that is where my focus is for the purpose of this thread. I have a problem. I am not attracted to my wife and it you want honesty, I find her extreme obesity repulsive. I have lamented about that on this thread. 

This is not my primary focus within my marriage. We have gone through a lot in the last half of our marriage and especially within the last 5 years. We have laid out (almost) all our problems. We may not have ever been this open in our relationship and working on our communication has been key. Quite a few of these problems have been worked out requiring changes and compromise from both of us. We have made compromises so that we are meeting each others needs but have been careful to do it without compromising ourselves. There are still problems to resolve. There likely will always be issues to resolve. People do not stay stagnant and I do believe that if you do not grow together then you are growing apart. 

Despite this hard work and focus, in the back of my mind I am concerned. Even as we work through these issues, I am unable to shake how I feel about her weight. I am still unable to find her attractive physically. I am very concerned that I will always feel this way unless we can make progress on her losing the weight. I am concerned that despite working very hard on the rest of our problems, we will live the rest of our lives in a relatively sexless marriage; a life devoid of physical intimacy. I am concerned that this will be a barrier to true emotional intimacy in our marriage. While this issue has not been my focus within our marriage, I have put a lot of thought and effort into resolving it when the opportunity arises. It is the one issue I don't seem to have any more answers for. This is a concern of mine and I expressed that on this thread. 

You have attacked me for that concern ... and yes, it feels very much like an attack. You have essentially said that my concern, how I feel, is not legitimate. You like to tell me how women think; that does have value in this discussion but you should also know as a woman that it is not helpful or constructive to tell another person that their concerns are not legitimate.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I said:

No sex isn't just sex and physical attraction involves a lot of things. In another post, I liken it to a balance sheet. Everybody has negatives and positives ... EVERYBODY and I'm well aware of many of mine. Some of the things involved in physical attraction, especially in a long relationship as opposed to first time encounters or young relationships, are not physical things at all. For me, her increasing weight is a significant part of the balance sheet. For her many good attributes both physical and emotional, that balance sheet is in the negative. I cannot find that extreme weight attractive. I never have in my entire life found morbid obesity attractive, whether it is her or anybody else. She was overweight when I married her but that didn't matter to me. She wasn't obese by any stretch but she wasn't thin. As I've said before, the connection is what made her attractive to me. A DMZ has been crossed, a point in which the weight has a very significant impact on my attraction to her.

You responded:

One minute you say you aren't keeping score and the next you are telling me you have a balance sheet? If these are the signals you give off here it is no wondr your wife is confused!

I also said:

No marriage has ever fallen apart without both partners contributing to it. If our marriage does fail, I will be taking plenty of the blame. I have already taken this specific issue and made it my own. I ask the question of myself constantly: How do I help her with this? What can I do or say? It is a constant debate in my mind. I have never said that she "fails" to lose the weight because of a lack of love for me. It DOES bother me that despite all of our discussions about the health consequences that she doesn't do it for herself or for her children. There is a debate that rages in me that says on the one hand she has unintentionally robbed me of her desire for her (not because of a lack of love) but on the other hand, this is my problem. She is not the one who has this problem. I do. I am the one who finds the weight unattractive. You make it sound like I'm some uncaring idiot who hasn't put an ounce of thought into this and puts all the blame on her. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You responded:

But...but you have a balance sheet...


Ok, forget about the idea of the balance sheet because the tool I used to illustrate a point is clearly lost on you. I used it to point out that there are a lot of things involved in sexual attraction. You said, well what about all these other things you said you love about us but when you say you have an issue with our weight, you are lying because it is all about our hot bod. You keep asking at what point in weight loss does a person become sexually attractive ... as if there is some demarcation point. It isn't that simple in that it also depends what else you find attractive about that person or your relationship or any number of things. There is no magic number and you don't switch from finding a person completely unattractive to having passionate desire for them. YOU are being disingenuous because you know better than that. The balance sheet was simply to illustrate a point, not keep a score card of who is better than the other person or what their good points and bad points are. That is ridiculous. My marriage isn't a contest of who is better. If I thought that way she should divorce me immediately and I would divorce her immediately if she thought that way.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I said:

Ok, so you think I need to "find other ways to physically connect with her like holding her hand and hugging. Not because you "have to" but because you want to." I'm sorry but I will "have to" before I "want to." I don't know how most people are. I am affectionate with my children but they are my children. I am not normally affectionate with others. I used to be very affectionate with my wife but I was also very attracted to her. There needs to be some level of attraction to want to do that. No, it doesn't mean I did it to have sex with her; but we had a level of intimacy where I wanted to do that. We aren't there now. I can't just be affectionate because I love her ... that's almost where I could give the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech. That level of physical intimacy is just not there and not having sex is a large part of that. I could when I was young because it was all new and fresh and exciting. If you read the infidelity thread, you'll see a lot cheating spouses often minimize and say "it was just a kiss" or "we just made out once." When you are an adult, you know that kissing means having sex ... it doesn't normally mean just kissing.

You said:

You're sorry? You will be. You can't even bring yourself to hug her or hold her hand?!?!?! That IS shallow and yes in this instance you fake it until you feel it. She is your wife. You are not just withholding sex you are with holding all forms of physical affection. IMHO, that's pretty low. 

How exactly is that shallow? I am not withholding anything from her. If she asks for sex, I have sex with her. If she wants to hold my hand, I hold her hand. If she wants a hug, I give her a hug. Yes, I fake it. I do not initiate but I do not withhold when asked. Do I want to feel connected enough with her to want to do those things? Absolutely, that is why I talk about this. This is also very common when you read the personal stories about one spouse not being attracted to another ... in fact, it's not just common, it's pretty much universal. 

There used to be a time when I couldn't keep my hands off her. Her nickname for me was "snuggle bunny" Heck, I kissed her several times at that altar before the pastor said, "well, I know you already have ... but you may now kiss the bride." I embarrassed my family at our very formal reception when I took her garter off with my teeth. We were always the most affectionate couple everywhere we went, I was that attracted to her. I want to feel that way about her again.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I noticed this little nugget:

You said,

You pay her cheap compliments because what else could they be? You say positive things because you think that is what you should do but clearly your heart isn't in it. You are trying to do the right thing. I honestly believe that, but you have to be honest when your heart isn't in it. That's part of the reason I say that thin spouses can be shallow. They are more than willing to state that they are unattracted to their overweight spouse. But want to gloss over their own shortcomings. Neither of you is perfect, but according to you she is "worse". She did it first, is a child's argument.

I pay her cheap compliments? Where do you get that? I just finished saying that I don't give a compliment that I don't mean.

Who are you talking about?

I compliment her all the time and I am sincere about them. They aren't forced. For example, one thing she is doing right now is going back to school for a mid-life career change. She is rocking it out. I gush about how proud I am of her for what she's doing and how much effort she's putting into it. That is huge! 

I really don't know where you get the idea that I pay her cheap compliments or that my heart isn't in the compliments I give her. I never said that and it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Now, I am aware that problems in a relationship can sometimes blind one to those things. That was the case a few years ago during a very bad stretch. In response, I made it a goal to find one thing every day that I appreciated her for and tell her. That was a good exercise. 

She did it first? That's a child's argument? It was an expression ... "she put herself in that position in the first place" So, you took an expression, turned it into something it isn't and used it against me. THAT sounds like a child's argument. I'm not a wordsmith, it was simply an expression. It was not intended to mean "she did it first" / "she did it to me", that is silly and it isn't MY thought process. 

She isn't "worse"; this isn't a freaking contest. I am well aware of my shortcomings and I'm working on them constantly. They are on my mirror on post-it notes in the form of goals that I have primarily related to those shortcomings. My wife is more than welcome to read them and she has. I'm not glossing things over.

I shared my feelings on my wife's weight and that I am not attracted to her because of it ... and so I pay her cheap compliments and have some need to be superior to her? What??

Again, I don't know where you come up with this stuff except perhaps you are making assumptions based on your own personal experience. Somebody must have burned you badly.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Fledgling,
> 
> Don't have time to answer all at once so one at a time ....
> 
> ...


I have never, not once said that your wife doesn't need to lose weight. (And since there are other women in this thread who agree with you obviously it's a generalization of how women think) You feel like it's an attack because your wife isn't here. You have no idea what I would say to her. Your concerns about her weight are legitimate. How you choose to _respond _to her weight is what I am discussing. You are confusing your feelings on her weight with your reaction to her weight. Which are two totally different things.

It was a good idea to break up the posts. I will work on the rest later.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm sorry, Fledgling, but as another woman, I'm going to disagree that when a women's emotional needs are taken care of, she magically wants to have sex more. 

I'm not going to turn this into an Alpha-Beta debate, but there are plenty of threads on these forums about how men were "there" for their wives in every way possible, and the wife still wasn't interested in sex. So - I think that's making sex, which is a very complex situation and boiling it down to something far more simple than it is. 

That's even ignoring the awkward question to ask, how does sex work when someone is 330 lbs? Does it feel the same? How long does it last if they get tired easily? Or they can't move very much, or have trouble breathing? How satisfying is that for either person involved? Sex shouldn't be a punishment. Being married shouldn't mean some kind of obligation to endure sex you find awful.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I noticed this little nugget:
> 
> You said,
> 
> ...




Perhaps. I am not good at taking my own advice sometimes.  I think the reason why you, and almost everyone here on TAM, is because we know it when we aren't doing what needs to be done. We know that the real tough choices and actions are difficult. It feels so *unfair *sometimes. And when we see something or read something that hits a little too close to home...we lash out. I get it I really do. It's not going to change opinion or my advice. So why don't we stick to that okay?


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> I'm sorry, Fledgling, but as another woman, I'm going to disagree that when a women's emotional needs are taken care of, she magically wants to have sex more.
> 
> No need to apologize.  It's just a general indication. I'm not too proud to admit that not everyone falls into these categories. I will evn go so far as to say that this particular wife may be one of those people. However, at this point the posters has indicated that he has tried everything else. That they communicate well etc etc etc so then we start getting into the category of "what is left". Let's try this.
> 
> ...


I agree. But this is the way their marriage is right now. I imagine that neither of them particularly feel sexy, and she probably feels very self-concious around her own husband. Yet the post said she would be "all over it" if her "pulled off her mask and took her right there and then." (which is rude, btw) This indicates to me that a) she does indeed have a sex drive and b) that she still has a love attachment to her husband. Therfore I would imagine that she would initiate more than just a few times a year. Unless her husband has been rejecting her or she feels like she would be rejected.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I said:
> 
> Ok, so you think I need to "find other ways to physically connect with her like holding her hand and hugging. Not because you "have to" but because you want to." I'm sorry but I will "have to" before I "want to." I don't know how most people are. I am affectionate with my children but they are my children. I am not normally affectionate with others. I used to be very affectionate with my wife but I was also very attracted to her. There needs to be some level of attraction to want to do that. No, it doesn't mean I did it to have sex with her; but we had a level of intimacy where I wanted to do that. We aren't there now. I can't just be affectionate because I love her ... that's almost where I could give the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech. That level of physical intimacy is just not there and not having sex is a large part of that. I could when I was young because it was all new and fresh and exciting. If you read the infidelity thread, you'll see a lot cheating spouses often minimize and say "it was just a kiss" or "we just made out once." When you are an adult, you know that kissing means having sex ... it doesn't normally mean just kissing.
> 
> ...


That is very sweet and the first thing you've said that I can take at face value.


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