# should i keep laying my soul out by trusting her



## i_feel_broken

Hi,

quick recap: married 3 years, wife had EA with boss for 18 mnths, found out 2.5 mnths ago since then she has told me it is over with him 3 times but i have found she has been lying. She now has separated from me and insists its over with him and now needs space to make a decision for herself what she wants to do without pressure from anyone.

My question is this:

she has said that she wants to spend a family day with me and my 3 year old son tomorrow. I am in 2 minds whether to agree. Part of me says I should go and make her realise what she will miss (Plan A type stuff), part of me says I should do more of a plan B now and say something along the lines of:

"I'm sorry but I don't feel we should spend the day together, you have hurt and lied to me over and over again. I love you and want to work on our marriage but until you are prepared to also commit to the marriage we should be separate. "

Would I be missing an opportunity to try and get her back. I'm worried that I will just get my hopes up again only to find out she is still planning to live with OM etc. I don't feel I can open myself up to another bout of pain. It was only 10 days ago I found texts on her phone to OM saying she loved him and was looking forward to the future together. This was hours after telling me she needed to be on her own and for me and OM to leave her alone.

I'm so confused and don't know what the best plan is. I can't be walked over again but I don't want to feel like I am pressurising her into choosing me as she will resent me for that

any help would be amazing. thank you


----------



## Banff

Hang in there. If you get the chance, read "Love Must Be Tough". It is written for people contemplating your same choices. 
The quick summary is that you owe it to yourself and her and your child to use your plan b. And in the end it is the only solution that will last.

Anything else breads resentment, anger, and bitterness. These are not good building blocks for a relationship.

I would go with a mix. Spend some time with her so she does know what she is missing. But be sincere in your plan b statement. Be sure she knows you are commited, but only if she is 100% committed also. There is no half way. Either all in or out.

Good luck to you, and hang in there. It will get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

Now that your wife is out of the house, she can not return until the affair is over. You can not make her end it. She or OM willl make that decision. History says it will happen between 6 months and a year. Now that she is out of the house how can you excellerate the end?
Exposure helps bring them out of the fantasy world. It also informs everyone before she starts the accusations. Your mutual friends will see the OM for what he is not just the new guy after the separation. Plan A lets you interact woth your wife during this difficult period. Your assignment is to not do Marriage Busters. If you go to Plan B you close the door on communication but you do it nicely and with respect. Plan B should come when you have reached your limit and can't continue any longer. 
Since you have a child together Plan A is easy to do. However, you must give her the space to fail. You can not press her. Experience says W and OM are not meant for each other. It was an opportunity. It just happened. Give it a chance to fail. As hard as it is to swallow, the more time they spend together the quicker the affair is likely to end.


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks. I'm finding it really hard to buy into this "give her space to fail", "let her have her affair it wont last". Why should I let my wife have an affair, at the moment I can't help but think she has hurt me enough, she needs to decide. She has told me she loves me and she has said that she thinks things could be worked out between us. 

I just don't get how anyone can sit and wait for an affair to fizzle out. I don't want to get personal, I am hurting as much as anyone on this forum, but if she chooses OM I can't see me waiting around. I can't, maybe it's because I don't have the strength to see it through or maybe I think that I deserve better and have to respect myself and move on. No one deserves that sort of treatment.

I feel I deserve an answer sooner rather than later. I understand that if I pressure her to come back it is not the right foundations to move forward, I know it has to be her decision BUT I just can't stop thinking she is playing me without even knowing it. She gets to come home have a nice family day out then go back to work and see him. I'm just going to get hurt all over again. She is procrastinating and by doing so keeping her options open and keeping control of the situation.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

You have every right to feel that way. But if you want her to return with an open heart then the affair will have to end. She won't end it because you ask. Right now it is all about . You can not change her. You can change you. If you ask her to return she will say no. So if no is the answer and you can't way then move on. That doesn't mean you have to divorce her, but Plan B may be for you. You have the moral high ground if you decide to divorce. You would feel much better if there was another woman in your life.
But since you are still married, that would not be the "right " thing to do. But it would make you pain lessen quickly. That behavior does not support your marriage. However it does support your personal recovery.
I am about 3 months into separation. It took me about a month to finally admit to myself that we were separated. She now has set up a separate household. She has a year lease. So I have a time line that I can try to live with. I will likely turn to Plan B in 3 months or so. As time passes it gets easier to live with Plan A.


----------



## i_feel_broken

i understand your points of view, i really do. I just think the way she is treating me is becoming so painful, soul destroying and disrespectful I could not continue like you have.

I have exposed to many people all who think I have handled it well but also think I am basically getting walked over. They say I am allowing her to juggle all the balls and do what she likes while continually lieing and hurting me. I have worked for 2 months now on reassuring her that I will be there, I feel it is time to take a stand for my own good. It feels crazy that I am sitting round waiting for her to choose between me and another man like some stupid little puppy (I dont act like that of course). She wants to spend the day with us this weekend and I could be all nicey nicey again then she could easily just text him on Monday and make plans to move in together. That makes me a bloo*y idiot AGAIN!!

sorry to vent - this is driving me insane


----------



## jessi

Hi there, 
I would spend the day with her and just keep doing your Plan A, It has not been that long since she has been separated from you...She is the one that asked to spend the day, maybe she is trying to see what is left for the two of you....when I found out about my husband's afffair, he was telling me he loved her and didn't love me I ignored all the babble and just Plan Aed him and told him that I still loved him and that I was willing to work on our marriage.....
I honestly thought he was going with the OW but he over a two month period slowly looked at me differently and we are now working on recovering our marriage.....
I think it takes a bit of time for them working things out about their true feelings and what they are willing to give up.
I think you give yourself a timeline and tell her a deadline for a decision and then go to a Plan B for you......
Remember what she says and does isn't your wife, it's someone who has been taken over by all the affair fog and babble.....don't take things to heart......it's tough but a little longer and she may see things differently....
I think if I had just not Plan Aed my a** off and was forgiving that my husband would have left, maybe not with her but we would not be working on our marriage now......
He knew what he had done wrong and that it was an unforgivable act, he knew that if he continued with the OW that I would be out of his life for good and that thought was to much for him.......
This is a day to day kind of thing.....don't make any quick decisions but give yourself a reasonable amount of time......


----------



## greeneyeddolphin

I think you should do both Plan A and B. #1, (unless it's not her child, but even then) she has the right to see her kid, regardless of what else she's done, and by being together with her, you ensure she doesn't take him around the other guy and you show her what she's missing, and #2 you make your statement about commitment and her lack thereof to show her that just because you are there doesn't mean everything is all okeydokey again. The family time might help her realize what she's throwing away if she doesn't stop the affair, which if you still want to be with her, is a very good thing. And again, it ensures that she doesn't bring your kid around the other guy, which if they ARE thinking of playing house, she could be considering doing. And if she is thinking she wants you back and this is the way to do it, your Plan B statement will get her to understand that if she wants you back, she's going to have to make some major changes and really prove to you that she's going to be in it for keeps, and not just for now. Her response to that will also tell you a lot, I think. If she doesn't seem to take you too seriously, or doesn't give any indication that she's even going to think about what you've said, then you know you need to continue to be cautious.


----------



## i_feel_broken

*Re: should i keep laying my soul out by trusting her - PROGRESS UPDATE!!*

OK all,

I have had a break through. This weekend I told my wife that if she could not commit to me I could not continue spending time with her at weekends etc. I told her I needed to start accepting we were separating and move on with my life. This was so difficult, I so badly wanted to spend the weekend with her and my son. She says she was gutted but understood. I spent Saturday on my own or with my brother.

Anyway Sunday morning she asks me again to spend the day with them but I stick to my guns. Not being aggressive but politely declining. A little later she asks if we can talk. She says she wants to give our marriage a chance and work on things. She has said she will leave her job.

Yesterday she rand OM and told him we were giving it another go. He was very angry as he says he has waited for her to leave me for over 18 months and has broken his family up for her (not sure that is true). He then rang me to tell me he would not get in the way of us working on the marriage! what a nice guy! I wasn't offensive but not polite either. I secretly appreciated the call but didn't want him to know!

I will still be wary of them but my focus now is to get her out of the job (hard as as soon as she leaves the mortgage etc will start to bankrupt us!). Then counselling. She is very angry/upset/scared at the moment and still doesn't understand the effect this has had on me. I want her to understand and be sorry but without pushing her away.

thanks again for the support and time spent by people on here - I shall definitely stay around and keep updating and helping where i can.


----------



## jessi

This is great news, right now the No Contact between them is the most important thing, keep watching and make sure she gives you access to all her communication, phone, comp and so on.....You need to know where she is at all times and give her time to work through the withdrawal stages of ending her affair....
Keep telling her that you love her and want to work things out for the two of you and your family but you will not put up with anymore contact between the two of them.....
Stay firm with her but loving at the same time, get some books that are suggested on this site and go through them together so she gets a full understanding of your feelings......Surviving and Affair is a good one by Harley.......
Good Luck and expect a lot of ups and downs......


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

It seems you are speaking to each other on a level you have not experienced in some time. Try to be as honest as possible. Stay strong and confident. Prepare yourself for the lows. Can the two of you get away for the weekend and go somewhere to get her mond off of this? It would be helpful. However don't expect much. She will be distracted and intimacy may be a problem. Be sure to listen. Hold her gaze. Hold her hand. This will be a very challenging time. If you have been reading any other threads here, I hope you have been reading Flowergirl77's thread. It will give you insight into your wife's thinking. 
No love busters.


----------



## i_feel_broken

well a bad day today.

had a huge argument with my wife this morning, perhaps I am approaching things the wrong way? I asked her how she felt about deleting OM as a contact from her messenger application on her blackberry. She replied with 'he doesn't use it any more so there is no point, he could just text me if he wanted to anyway". so i asked her if she would mind deleting him then if there was no point having him as a contact as it would ease my mind.

She was really cross saying I was trying to control her and she is not prepared to do what people tell her to any more. I told her I couldn't understand why she wouldn't do it and that it had now created an atmosphere. She has now explained that she thought it was a reasonable request and that she didn't mind deleting him but it was the principle of being told what to do that frustrated her and made her dig her heels in.

I'm confused about this. If she understood how much pain OM had caused then why be stubborn about it and dig heels in about something so sensitive and painful to me. very worried now


----------



## jessi

well explain that thought to her and if she really thinks about it she should agree with you.....she should do everything to make you feel safe in the relationship. It's true the OM could contact her in many ways, she has to be strong enough not to answer the calls the texts the voicemails whatever the means of communication is.....
My husband and I went through this with his OW, for a while she wouldn't stop contacting him, he showed me all the contacts and ignored them, deleted them, didn't return anything....
she finally got it after a few months....
He understood once he made the decision to stay in the marriage that it did no one any good to stay friends or contact the OW, he told me why would he do that to me at this point and how does it help the OW to move on with her life, he didn't want to give her any wrong ideas that there would ever be any hope for the two of them ever again, he told her we were working things out and that there never would be any hope for a relationship between them.....
He did everything from his control to make me feel better about contacting the OW and he was proving to me that I was more important but putting no contact into place for our recovery.......
It did take my husband a few months to really come out of the affair fog thinking though so give it time, you can't control her just tell her it's important to you and if she cares for you then you would appreciate the effort........


----------



## Wisp

Indeed keep tabs on her she will try contact him..

a couple of reading items I found

Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity

and a thread where I placed some extracts that wives wrote about their EA's

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...guilty-dont-know-what-do-next.html#post168333

It is going to be tough, you will need to be loving but not overbearing, calm, firm, patient, observant without appearing to spy, and yes you do need to be aware there is a strong chance of further contact and.. find out what caused this if you need to change something with yourself please do so.

And try get his number barred from her phone so he cannot call or text her from his mobile. Bar his email contact (auto junk mail), phone numbers etc, you may want to hold a record of these details in case you suspect there is a ongoing difficulty. Every bit helps her its how you communicate and she needs to do this willingly.


A question for you 

"Now that your wife is out of the house, she can not return until the affair is over. You can not make her end it." 

*Is she returning home... does your plan A say come home if she says it is over.?*

One more.. Ask her to write a *no contact letter *that you read and then post or mail.(this must be done with her willing support, part of the earning trust thing, scan affaircare's threads there are some samples there).. good to have a written record never know when it will come in handy against the OM. plus it allays any any concerns that the call content may not have been as said (unless you were with her when she made the call )


----------



## Wisp

I see few options here:

You get a better-paid job ASAP and wife leaves her job now and becomes a stay at home mom until she can find a new job. She may need this breathing space to get the EA out of her system.

Your wife leaves the job today and you sacrifice the house save your marriage and move on together as a family, a hard choice but using the two papers this is the only one available at the moment.


There is no good answer on this, read the links and notes I gave you previously, these will give you some insight what she is going through. You may have already read the link below:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-what-i-will-say-om-when-i-return-work-8.html

Discuss the options with your wife, and yes give up the house if that what both of you think is best, make sure she knows all the time she in numero uno and the choices are to save the love between you and the marriage. This is a long term commitment let her know that and you fully support her thought this.

Now why did I say write a no contact letter when she works with her Boss..

Find the samples on this site or ask and someone will track them down for you. 

I do not have much info on the company she works for so here is some assessments.

Small company owned or run by the Boss she works for.. 
Company where the Boss may be a partner or one of a few very senior Bosses

So a no contact letter clearly says she does not want the OM to engage with her in any way that is strictly not business related and professional. It clearly states she is staying within her marriage – no outside interference needed.

Why do you issue this letter in an email format and if necessary a hard copy posted and receipted delivery. 

YOUR wife is protecting her self against him; she is reinforcing what she said on the phone. If he continues to pursue her then if the company has an HR department they need to be advised thereof and need to deal with him or you may have a legal option i.e harassment and a restraining order. Indeed both are tough but it gives a message and you and your wife have options to protect your marriage.

Work though this with your wife take effort agreeing a way forward, take her input but keep on track, it is often how you both engage in the conversation that get you to the end goal. 

The only import item I must harp on.. 

*Your wife needs to leave her job NOW*

Wishing you and your wife all the best.


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks for your thoughts.

As it stands now my wife has said she wants to work on our marriage and fall in love me again whatever that means. She has booked next week off work and OM is on holiday the following week. That means we have two weeks to sort and discuss what we are going to do. She is living back at home.

OM is the MD of his own business which only employs 4 people, one of which is my wife, so definitely no HR department and contact at work is a definite.

WISP - thanks for that link to Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity. I read the homepage and was literally gobsmacked at how close my wife had followed the steps outlined there. everything it states she has done and felt. I want her to read it also.

I know this is going to be really hard whatever we decide to do and I know that she is going to resent me in many ways for what has happened despite it not being my fault. Guess I just have to stick with it and take a few on the chin for now (like I haven't taken enough already).


----------



## Wisp

Gives you 10 days to get a working plan in place with her support , the no contact letter should still happen, he will be miffed but who cares its your wife and marriage.

Do this all with your wifes buy in.


----------



## i_feel_broken

ill work on the no contact letter with her over the next couple of days I think. Would feel good to send him something formal.

The bit at the moment I am struggling to deal with is that 3 weeks ago when she told me she was leaving me i found some messages on her phone like this :

"When are you back anyway, what's the plan? Really quite excited about the future, just very anxious on the short term. I love you and missing you like crazy. Really don't like text, what have you done getting that bloody iphone??! Xxx"

" I know you will support me. I don't know what to say either, I just need a hug. I know I will be happy, just got to get through this tough stretch ahead. I love you xxx "

My feeling at the moment and that she hasn't denied is that she does feel like she is in love with him and not me. So hard to accept and deal with.


----------



## i_feel_broken

On the subject of me getting better paid job, I don't think thats possible right now. I earn about £40k and in my career it doesn't increase that much in my area. I have been offered some extra work in the evenings which would pay about £30p/h but I did lots of this after our baby was born 3 years ago and the wife still cites that as when we drifted apart. Therefore seems crazy to do that now when we are trying to make things better.

I think she will have to find a job fast or the house is going. need to make sure OM is well out of the picture before I feel comfortable selling though.


----------



## Wisp

Have you spoken to her about the text messages, does she know you have sight of them. If she does know you have sight of them say you are not fighting just need to know what she was thinking at the time. Close it down quickly do not probe to much.


Ask her what she meant by the bolded items

"When are you back anyway, what's the plan? *Really quite excited about the future*, just very anxious on the short term. I love you and missing you like crazy. Really don't like text, what have you done getting that bloody iphone??! Xxx"#

"*I know you will support me*. I don't know what to say either, I just need a hug. I know I will be happy, just got to get through this tough stretch ahead. I love you xxx "

What was their plan for the short term? 

I bolded them for a reason --- for you only not her to know - is this a strategy they are following like his call to you Hmmm never heard of that before. Were you present when she made the I am working on my marriage call.

If not the “ No Contact letter” is becoming really vital and the confirmed delivery thereof. Once done with her support let her dad and family know say to her everyone is here to support you. She may not want to do this but say “ look people know already your behaviours was obvious to all they are just being polite and we as a couple need to stand together and close the gossip mill down”

For you this is important as you are placing her in a position where the expectation is she now stands firm and stops the EA and will cause serious discomfort for her if she and the OM try to carry on


Say to her as well once the affair is completely ended and permanent no contact in place you can work on building your relationship and say things like Yes I am not perfect but I love you and I will change because I love you. 

The next item is for future thought only. : 
If you can get the OM’s ex wife details call her for “advice” and let her know what is happening you never know she may have some pointers for you. Again if you contact her be with your wife, let see if his comment of destroying his marriage wasdue to your wife or was he busy elsewhere.


----------



## Wisp

Ha just saw your post after I posted the last one , I see we are on the same time zone. Sorry had to make some change to my last one you may need to refresh the page to see the bold items


----------



## Wisp

When you work with her on the no contact letter do so in a manner that she supports this.. it is important going forward, you don’t want her saying to him MY H forced me to do this.. 

Do you have the No Contact samples from this forum or need help tracking them down?

If it is a hard copy she should sign it . I prefer this option as no one can say you hijacked her email. You wife must email a copy to him, do so whilst he is off on vacation.

Send a signed hard copy via Recorded mail to his house for when he arrives home. 

Thereafter if he persists on pursuing her she/you can lay a harassment charge against him and his company. For an employee the charge is against the company for not protecting her this means in your case the OM is the company and can be taken to court, this can be the last resort but the implied consequences should be there.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Oh yeah we spoke about those messages. After finding those (from a blackberry backup file I ripped from her laptop) on 15th July (messages were from 10 days earlier) I rang her and I basically told her that I am not giving her an ultimatum but it is now clear the situation you are in dictates a decision. That is OM and your job or Me and our family. Three days later she said she chose me and was willing to change jobs and work on us.

Not sure what their immediate short term plan was but the plan was for her to go and live with him. He is in rented accomodation at the moment after his divorce which is not big enough for my son and his 2 kids.

I was not there when she told him that it was over and she was working on the marriage. I am really tempted to ring OM now and ask him what he understands - he would probably lie to me though although from what I am led to believe he is furious with my wife at the moment.

I'm going to make a start on the no contact letter now and hopefully talk to my wife later about it although she has friends over tonight. I have the samples thanks. I like the idea of telling all family that we have decided to give it a go it means if she contacts him she is letting everyone down not just me.

I have OM's ex-wifes phone number now and have been desperate to tell her everything that has gone on. My problem with this is that she has bulimia and alcoholic and feel she does not deserve to be hurt. It may make me look awful.

Thanks for your support and guidance, it means a lot as I have waves of pain and anxiety that make things so hard to look forward


----------



## Wisp

Do not talk to OM at all - as far as you are concerned he is a liar and a cheat. He will do anything and everything to destroy your marriage, he wants a bit on the side namely your wife.. 

Hold off on any contact with his ex wife and focus on the short term win i.e the No Contact letter, a Job for your wife..

Reading all the posts: You need to get her out of that job before he can meet her again. If you can get it right she leaves a resignation letter on his desk before he get back, one that says with immediate effect, no face to face meeting. If this does not happen work with her how she deals with him because he most certainly is going to put her under some pressure either subtly or directly.


----------



## turnera

Has she quit her job?


----------



## i_feel_broken

no not yet.

OM has made it clear he wont be acting to push her out of the job. I brought it up with her yesterday and she got angry and said one step at a time she can't deal with losing her job at this exact moment as it is the only thing proping her up (and our mortgage).


----------



## Wisp

Indeed she would get upset:

“I brought it up with her yesterday and *she got angry* and said one step at a time she can't deal with losing her job at this exact moment as it is the only thing proping her up (and our mortgage).”

Stick to what we said before, NC letter, new job ASAP. She needs to be onside with this.. 

Since this is critical one assumes she is looking for a job at the moment, every effort on her side should be made on this. Finding a new job could take many weeks especially in light of the economy. Will she temp? if so approach the agencies this week.

You just have to aware that you are not seen to be pushing to hard but keep up the pace in a nice but firm way. If you can - have her agree the goal is to have her out of there before he returns from his holiday, it will make her life easier. 

But again NC letter first, signed emailed and posted - even if it means that it is done today, no reason why it can’t be done tonight. 

If you want some UK job links I can arrange some to be posted to you

We have the easy part you have to face your wife and work through this.

best of luck


----------



## i_feel_broken

I'm finding it hard to get her onside without being pushy and controlling. I just spoke to her on the phone and she asked how I was. I said I was ok but still a bit gutted about everything. I said it would make me feel more comfortable if we were sit together and write a more formal email to OM explaining about no contact. 

Her response is "that sounds a bit silly I think you are thinking about it too much. Your going too far, we all know where we stand now he doesn't want me anymore anyway. He says he wants to get on with his own life. What would an email achieve now?"

My response was "Ok if you don't want to do that I can't to do it on my own, I will show you a draft of what I would like to write to him later and you can see if you think it is something you would like to send together. "

What I wanted to say "I don't fully believe what you tell me and I want to tell him to f off myself so I know it is done. Can't you do this for me - to make me feel better! shout scream get angry etc etc etc"


----------



## Wisp

Stay on course she is in an EA and yes everything is hard for her

If you are still going to show her the link so.. who knows she might realise where she is..


If you so choose say the No Contact letter is highly recommended if you go to counselling and for this kind of situations to help save the marriage, these guys are expert so why doubt them..


----------



## turnera

"I want you to write to the letter as a psychological show to me that you are indeed returning to the marriage. Considering what's happened, I would be extremely disappointed if you can't do this one thing for me. I know it's embarrassing to do so, but it means a lot to me."


----------



## Blue Moon

She's not really committed to you again. From the way things sound she's not going to stop seeing the guy, or if the opportunity presents itself again in the future she'll jump on it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Tanelornpete

There is a very good reason why a no contact letter is necessary - see here.

Also some sample no contact letters.

Just to throw in my 2cents: Three conditions to show you that your wife truly wants to work on your marriage:

1) No contact letter
2) Transparency regarding all communication to anyone at all (at least for the near future) - that means passwords, etc.
3) Specific commitment to work on the marriage.

To reiterate: No contact means NO contact. There is a lot to consider there.


----------



## Wisp

Are you OK.. concerned you had a difficult time last night

Any update from your actions last night? NC letter etc. 

Just vent if you have to , remember if you don't succeed today, you can always try tomorrow just change tactics.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Hi all,

thanks for your consideration. Last night was ok but that was because we have one of her friends over so we didn't talk much. I read her the stages from Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity and she agreed that she had followed those stages fairly accurately. She did however say that in her case she was depressed already and that she had specific issues with me not giving her enough attention. It feels like she is trying to almost blame me for getting her into this mess. 

Today I have looked after our son for the day while she has gone to work. It has been a good day on the whole, it is Wifes birthday tomorrow so have spent the day shopping in town, making home made cards and I also spent a couple of hours cleaning and fixing her bike as she wants to start riding again. She gave me re-assurance about not talking to OM (for what that is worth) and he apparently left just after lunch time. I have phoned her 3 times today all for legitimate reasons ( I don't even feel like I need to talk to her due to my insecurity or anything). She hasn't answered any of my calls but she just rings back a bit later. We were due to go to the pub after work for a birthday tea, she has just called as she has left 45 mins late so pub is now going to be rushed as she has a friend round at 8 to look for their holiday. Really p*ssed off, told her that she could have let me know and she plays the I'm "stressed" card.

Since she has agreed to work on the marriage it all seems to have hit me so much more. The lies, deceit, dishonesty just enrages me. Who does she think she is to lie to me for 2 whole years with some other bloke. arrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh


----------



## Blue Moon

i_feel_broken said:


> Since she has agreed to work on the marriage it all seems to have hit me so much more. The lies, deceit, dishonesty just enrages me. Who does she think she is to lie to me for 2 whole years with some other bloke. arrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh


Yeah, two years is a long time...


----------



## Wisp

Good to hear you are OK

The stress will hit you but harden yourself this is far from over..When it is you will all need a good holiday away from everyone.

You are going to have to put the thoughts “The lies, deceit, dishonesty just enrages me.” far into the back of your mind, try forget them for now, they are going to distract you. Remember you are still fighting for your marriage *the EA is not over*…. just because she says it is - *NOT TRUE*. 


****
Make sure that she has a really good birthday, do not bring up the EA, nurture the day and keep smiling (hard I know), I always read that the advice says be an amazing Husband - do so 
******

As a side note did the OM give her a present? If so do not get irked, deal with it professionally. If he has, as a sign of respect to you she will need to return it or better still she gives it to an office co-worker, this is a clear message to the OM. Message to her – no gifts from the OM.

You will need to focus her attention back onto the No Contact letter, read some of the previous posts in this thread they may help with how to convince her to do this. 

As she is off work soon start job hunting.

Yes she will say small steps – the NC is the first big plus for you, a new job the second. – sorry I am harping sure you know this already. 

It may be required that sit with your wife and explain the position you are both in and the steps that are required to move forward, and do not be afraid to mention the need to rebuild trust, put a positive spin on it. Let her know it will be tough and that you are here for her (note I did not say there for her) 

You need to be strong for your wife, your son and yourself


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

While she goes through withdrawal she will be hard to deal with. This could be months. If she has contact with the OM then the clock will restart. This will be a trying time for you. Stay strong like WISP says. She will follow the script. Familiarize yourself with the stages and their length. Its an addiction and you need to treat it as such. No quick fixes. This will be a real test of your commitment. When you succeed history says that your marriage will be stronger.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Well she has now gone on holiday for a week with her best friend. I didn't really want her to go but she assured me it was for the right reasons and I told her I understood it would be good for her and maybe for us. We had got to the point where we were going over old ground and getting a bit petty.

It's going to be a hard week as it feels like she has left me, I get waves of mild panic and have to give myself a talking to to get myself under control. I am so tired of this emotional crap, I just want to live my life.

We had a brief chat before she left where she gave me reassurances that she would not be contacting OM and is committed to the marriage. She still refuses to accept the idea of a No Contact letter as she says we have past that point and it's too late, she says all has been said already and that it would just be dragging things up and bringing to the front what she we are trying to move on from.

The job is going to be a very hard one - she sobs as she loves her job and doesn't feel up to getting a new one - her depression and self confidence are so low at the moment and Om/Boss does give her great flexibility to go to councelling etc. 

We are going to try and start fresh discussions after a week apart and try and sort things out she has said she will come on holiday with my family in a few weeks time and also wants to book a holiday for the three of us for october/november so signs are good but i'm still very wary.


----------



## Wisp

Welcome back..

Thanks for the update

I am surprised she is off on holiday without you in this stressful time, a suggestion is to stop this going forward and introduce a boundary that as a married couple you holiday together or not at all

The absolutes are to get her out of the job away from the OM and an NC letter. If you can’t win on the NC now, change the job. Keep up the momentum on this I know it is tough. Start looking for her and get her CV sent in, once it starts it becomes a reality for her. 

She is resisting because she is still in the Fog.

You know all the above so:

Perhaps you can go a councillor who will give the same advice. I suggest you have a one to one first it gives you time to help gauge if they will give the same advice, remember you are following the correct steps and any councillor worth their salt will say the same. 

Steer clear of rebuilding the marriage discussions until the councillor supports you on breaking the EA part. 

I see your wife delaying as much as she can, as she wants her feet in both camps and it makes her feel good, she is deceiving herself and keeping options open. 

Best of luck


----------



## i_feel_broken

I know you are right. My worry is she is just delaying delaying all the time. I wanted the EA out of the way before we started counselling but i think i might set up some counselling now so that she can have a true outside opinion that re-enforces mine. 

I definitely want holidaying to be as a family from now on and knew that this felt wrong and she was really upset leaving our son. To be honest though it maybe a bit of a gamble but I think it may help her gain some perspective and allow us to start with a bit of fresh energy. that's me being the optimist anyway!

I think she had a good birthday at the weekend, we went out with friends on the saturday night and she got a bit drunk. Her mood was up and down al night, crying then dancing happy. In the morning we had some sexual intimacy which was promising but then had another discussion about things which left her in tears again. I regret bringing it up but it just eats away at me and I needed to talk about it with her.


----------



## Wisp

I know you are taking a lot of stress on this and you always face the possibility of loosing your wife. Our thoughts are with you. Words do not do justice describing what you are going through.

At this stage you have lost her and her unwillingness to do the NC and new job indicates a long journey ahead. If it is any consolation a lot of marriages go though this and from those couples that I know the NC did not always happen but the job change did.

Their relationships appears to be OK now so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

It is important you let your wife know you love her and this is a journey you take together.

A few questions for you, more for background and info for future thinking:

Does her dad/family know what has happened?

Will they support you in moving this forward and do you think this would help?

Do her co-workers know?

Please do look after your health, your mental state and keep on track the journey is tough but the reward is greater. Make sure you do a lot of the LOOK AFTER YOU work. You need to retain your strength.


----------



## Wisp

Some links to go through

Affair Care Coaching: 7 Steps to Rebuilding Your Marriage After the Affair is Ended

Emotional Needs Questionnaire 

The 5 Love Languages™ | Five Love Languages

A professional will take you forward, as said before ensure they are on the same page, I have heard some are ‘not quite up to spec’


----------



## i_feel_broken

her mum is a depressive/selfish/lonely woman who my wife has no real relationship with and doesn't really like. Telling her would do 0 good. Her dad and step mum know a lot of what is going on and about OM but i'm guessing they don't know about all the lies and deceit. They probably think bad of me but don't understand what she has done and i'm guessing they don't know how long it has been going on either. I would like to talk to them but only with my wife's consent as I'm worried about damaging what we have built in the last couple of weeks. It will be hard to ask wife because it will basically be a "I want to talk to your dad to let him know I am good and you are bad" type conversation in her mind.

Her co-workers odn't know. I am actually on skype with one of them now as I know her from my past job. Desperate to tell her but again don't want to damage our current progress.

Thanks for your concern. I am running/cycling a lot at the moment as I find exercise brilliant and am going to try and surround myself with family and enjoy my son this coming week as I know it will be hard


----------



## Wisp

co-worker information is good.

There comes a point if your wife does not leave the job you may have to act no matter what the reaction. 

It would be a good opportunity to set the scene, no information just say you are working through a difficult patch as information has come to light that is causing some interference in your marriage, leave it at that and change the subject. –YOUR CALL. 

The co-worker will press but.

.if things go bad later you can always make life very uncomfortable at her work. Pity you were not on the site a lot earlier, we would asked you to out her some time ago.

We are where we are.

Chase the councillors.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

Counselling sounds like a great idea. But as it has been suggested it is dangerous. You need to find a pro-marriage consellor. Most councellors want to help a person get happy. Well we know the shortest path to that is the addicts route. 
I am still waiting for an appointment with the marriage counselling group that I found. It has been 2 months. I did start counselling with another group but it was a struggle to find someone good within my health plan. My wife went once, but it was already too late for us. She was deep the PA, and I hadn't been to this site yet. I was doing many of the things that are advised against on this site and usually done by a frantic spouse. 
So my point is that you should start looking now. You need the pro-marriage counsellor and a reasonble price. As long as she hasn't made the break with the OM the counselling will be a waste of time. You have made great progress. She is moving towards your side of the fense. Is the friend she went away with pro-marriage?


----------



## i_feel_broken

i may lay a seed with her co-worker. Just need it to be a subtle one as if W finds out I have told co-worker after she has apparently committed to me it could make things bad.

The friend she is away with I am unsure about. I know for fact that she has known about the affair for a long time but she is a teacher and probably knows the importance of family sticking together and I think she knows I am a good person.

I worry about all the people advising her, her dad is not emotional and just syas "whatever makes you happy", I have seen messages from her step mum saying 

" let's talk it through how to get out when we come home? There is a solution there somehow! Don't worry"

I was thinking of going to relate for counselling - about £40 an hour I think.

"He doesn't seem able to change does he? You have told him so many times! Maybe you have to just say no more and just agree on the how you split?"

I am almost certain this was before she knew about EA but I don't think she is a good person to give advice. She had affair with Wife's dad that split them up and they have had a few splits as well over the years.


----------



## Wisp

Skip the family not a good call.

I am less concerned about the co-worker, all you say you are having a difficult time in your marriage blah blah blah words you choose, make sure they know it is not you but an external party interfering 

If your wife finds out and behaves badly and wants to ‘diss’ you at her work by saying something different to the truth remind her you have the evidence and will provide it to all. 

Up to you; she may come back from holiday all smiles ready take the leap, history says differently


----------



## turnera

Make sure you stay in contact with her this week.

And this is a great time to take care of things at home she may have asked for but you ignored. Show her what you have to offer.


----------



## Affaircare

At this point I see no real proof to suggest that the affair is over, other than "she says it is" and frankly I don't believe the words coming out of her mouth at this point. 

Thus, during this holiday, I would suggest three things. In order to have the privilege of returning to you, her marriage, her family, and her home, there are three things that are not negotiable that she must do: 

*1) NO CONTACT*. As Tanelornpete pointed out, she has to agree to end all contact with the OM forever. That means no cell phones, no texts, no chats or IM, no talking at work, NOTHING. Since she has already proven by her actions that she's perfectly willing to lie to your face, her assurances that she's not talking to the OM mean nothing, so she does not have the option of saying "no" to this one. She either writes a No Contact Letter (here are some Sample No Contact Letters) that is given to you so you can mail it...and offers her resignation TODAY, or she is welcome back to the marriage and family and home the day that she actually DOES those things. 

She may be angry. She may curse your name and rage against you. She may accuse you of trying to control her. But in the end it is her decision and she is free to make it: no more dragging this out and delaying--either letter and resignation today, or you can come home the day you do it. Where is she supposed to go? That is HER problem, because she is the one choosing to put a job and another man ahead of her husband, her family, and her commitment. If she can decide to not leave her job, she can decide where to go. 


*2. FULL ACCESS TO VERIFY HONESTY.* Again this is not negotiable. If she wants the privilege of working on her marriage and her family, she must agree to this. Since she has already proven by her actions that she's perfectly willing to lie to your face, her assurances that she's not talking to the OM mean nothing. Thus you need to be able to VERIFY that what she says...and what she does match. Full access would mean that you have the address to and password to ALL of her emails, her cell phone, her cell phone bill, any instant messenger she's on (Yahoo, MSN, or whatever), her texts and text messages, her forums, her chat rooms...all of it. Again she may say you are trying to control her but that's not accurate. She is completely free to do as she pleases. What you are trying to do is confirm her truthfulness. She has earned your verification by being dishonest and it is reasonable at this time to verify until her actions prove that her word is trustworthy. She can build trust by telling the truth, and then you verifying that she told the truth. 



Finally, 

*3. COMMITMENT TO ACTUALLY WORK ON HERSELF AND THE MARRIAGE WITH YOU.* Again this is not negotiable and she can not delay it and procrastinate. She may see clearly that you have contributed to the downfall of the marriage (heehee), but she needs to realize that her actions have also dropped a nuclear bomb to the relationship. Because of the extreme destruction, she needs to agree enthusiastically to face herself and her own issues and vulnerabilities that lead her to choosing adultery--AND agree enthusiastically to work with you to rebuilt the rubble of your marriage into something new and healthy. If she will not admit her part in the devastation, won't admit she was wrong, won't go to individual counseling, won't do any of the work, won't work with you and recognize she may need to help you a bit, etc. then you two will not be able to recover. Trust me, this forum has numerous people whose spouse's moved back home, didn't address the affair, swept it under the rug and now the loyal spouse is virtually SUFFERING and their marriage may or may not survive!

I know this sounds harsh, but if these things do not happen, then in real life what's happening is that the affair is continuing but was pushed underground, and no progress and no recovery will be made. On the other hand, if she *is* willing to do these things, she may be somewhat mad at first, but the foundation will be laid for a strong, mature, intimate recovery! 

So i_feel, while she's on holiday I recommend you stop spinning your wheels. Gather your courage and take a firm stand for your MARRIAGE!


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks affaircare that is definitely what i should have insisted on a few weeks ago. Unfortunately I think it is probably too late for anything.

After her being on holiday for a couple of days I managed to think of the password for her online mobile phone account and decided to check it. Guess what. Been contacting him all the time. During her birthday after I had spent a whole day and a lot of money on her gifts, from the airport just after speaking to me, and during her holiday. I was so disappointed, gutted and cross. She left the house for her holiday at 7pm on Tuesday night so Monday night was her last night to see our son properly for nine days and guess what she came home at 7pm. She told me she had had a depressive moment and had clearly been upset. Like an idiot I believed her and didn't want to confront as I was desperate for her to go away with us being on the best terms possible. Really she had spent almost an hour on the phone to him

I rang her and she was on the beach, I asked her a few questions which gave her the opportunity to fess up but more lies. I told her what I knew and she said she couldn't stop contacting him and was obviously a horrible person. She told me she had very strong feelings for him and didn't feel in love with me. I told her she could stop contacting him and she was choosing to be a horrible person. Basically I asked her one final time if she was willing to try on the marriage properly with him out of the way or was she wanting to continue the affair. She chose to finish it.

I rang OM and asked him to explain the communication, he obviously lied and then made out it was all her. I wasn't bothered really. Didn't expect anything else. The real reason i was phoning was to tell him me and my wife had been sexually intimate at least half a dozen times over the past 4-6 weeks. He didn't believe it at first but I made damn sure he did at the end. He was livid with her - she had promised him she wouldn't do that and he hadn't been told properly that he was out of the picture or that me and Wife were definitely giving it another try. 

He then told me that he was going to ring my wife and it was nothing to worry about as he was going to put her straight. About an hour later W calls me and says "so i see you have told OM everything". I told her I had not told any lies but anything I had said was to protect our marriage and end the affair. She then said "but your not protecting me though!!!" WTF!!!! she is in cuckoo land. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. He has apparently told her that he can't trust her and doesn't want anything to do with her. Even if that is true it won't last if they are working together.

I then rang her friend and colleague who i get on with well. She is a straight talking good person. She admitted that my wife had told her about it a while ago and she had told my wife she thought it was wrong and didn;t agree with it. She also was frustrated as it was then obvious my wife had been getting preferential treatment at work. She threatened to quit until she was treated more fairly which she says has put strain on her friendship with my wife so they no longer discuss it and explained that is why she had not been round to the house for ages as she couldn't look me in the eye.

I feel sick of all of this now. The lies, deceit and being taken for a fool are just too much. I rang her dad and step mum, W had told me they know everything. They obviously didn't!! They knew a very innocent soft version so I filled them in with the facts and told them the evidence I had to prove it. They were furious with her. They have not contacted her at all but have been ringing me all the time to check I am ok and have invited me to go and stay for a few days. They cant believe what she is doing.

My counsellor, my family and hers have all advised me to just leave her to it and concentrate on myself and my son. At the moment I actually don't feel like I want her back anyway, I have tried sooo hard to keep it together and have been stabbed in the heart repeatedly. They are all worried about my health as I'm loosing weight (12st - under 11st). I have an estate agent coming round on Tuesday to put the house on the market and I'm getting out of here. I haven't totally given up, if she was to show me she was willing to try (give her job up for a start) and prove OM thing is finished for a period of time then I know in my heart I would try. Without that there is nothing else I can try. It hasn't got nasty between us but I am going to see a family lawyer on Tuesday to get some advice on my son.

It all feels so surreal but very real and painful at the same time. I have however found a new strength from somewhere. I think maybe it is because I don't feel desperate to have her back right now. It is actually really helping her being away as I don't have to look at her and I am spending some great time with my son.

EA's are so destructive


----------



## Wisp

Hold it together..

Quick question for you ,did she say she now agrees the affair is over.. "She chose to finish it."


----------



## i_feel_broken

no she says he has ended it. probably rubbish.

I sent her a text asking what she is doing as a place to live before the house sells and asked her not to take my son to OM's house just yet. She then replied "I won't be seeing OM so that wont be a problem"

nothing to convince me there?


----------



## Wisp

This explains a lot including the no contact letter and not leave the job part.. 

Just be brave hold it together, you are hurting but now you have her family onside.. 

If she has come around, you take the best sample of the NC letters and print it out ready, she signs it ..deliver it to his blooming office and send the email.. When is the wife home???

Then she resigns with immediate effect from the job .

Go for it,,It is up hill but we are supporting you, Please remember be calm , caring and loving at all times this will count for you when the chips are down..


----------



## Wisp

A few more questions:

Is she at work next week and is the OM there..

While the iron is hot she must do a no contact letter or leave 

She resigns immediately or leaves…

I know it is painful but your marriage is worth it…


I am sending you a Private Mail (PM)


----------



## jessi

I'm so sorry for what is happening in your life right now....your wife is a classic cheater, lying, hiding the real truth and doing it without much guilt or remorse.......
I know what you are feeling when you find out all the lies, I know you desperately wanted to believe she was telling you the truth.....we only hear what we want to hear.....good for you to discover the truth, at least now you know the truth, you have exposed her to everyone important to her......
She will now have to face the music.......when you are in an affair it thrives on secrets and lies, when the truth finally comes out it's not a lot of fun anymore when everyone else knows what you are doing and that you are choosing to hurt your family.......
I wouldn't trust the OM, they aren't that great of character kind of people, to even have an affair with a married woman must tell you that they aren't the kind of person that anyone could trust.....
I would go to a lawyer and start to get advice on your next move, get an agreement in place to protect you and your son. Don't move out, make her go, she is the one that has decided to leave the marriage.......
Let her see what her decisions will really mean for her, financially, in terms of her family and friends.....
Right now she has been getting the best of both worlds, lets see how she fairs on her own or with the OM, lets see if he is as great as she thinks he really is.....
You be the best man you can be, look good, smell good, be happy, look after your kid and make sure she know what she will be giving up.....
I know it hurts, affairs never last, they fizzle out they are based on lies and they already know that they can't be trusted.....sooner of later they to will see what kind of person they have hooked up with.....
It's tough to let go, but it's the only way your wife will really feel what she has done to her life and family.....
post here for support......


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks.

she is back on Wednesday. She has not come around and I don't think she will be any time soon.

I could go on sending her caring and loving messages but what good is it if she is still contacting him which she probably is. It would just result in me looking like an idiot again??

if i was to text what sort of thing should i send her?


----------



## Wisp

No love stuff as she is using you..

This is not an option, use your powers of persuasion, she returns now, she must get an early return now, pay for it if needs be. Get her folks to call her if you need help. She is on holiday at your expense and is having a great time…

She must not have time to plot and plan

I know you did not want to talk to his ex wife , but do so now -let her know, every bit helps. If you know if any business contacts he has get the info keep them ready who knows what information can slip out.

In this time you need to let *all her *co-workers know what is going on.. Your on the train do not stop....

She is not going to expect this nor is he..


----------



## i_feel_broken

she is debating whether to go to work thursday and friday as she wants to spend it with our son. OM will be on holiday (one she was invited on not so long ago). 

Thanks jessi, what you say is so true and I am definitely going to do all the things you suggest, definitely not moving out - its up to her what she does. It will be sooo tough to let go but I think your right - nothing else has given her a big enough dose of reality to make her actually realise what she is doing. I don't feel like I know her right now, it's just so hard to watch her self destruct.


----------



## jessi

I think you tell her in no uncertain terms, that you are willing to work on your marriage if she has no contact in place with OM, she quits her job, the marriage is more important than the job. She gives you all access codes to comp, phone, email, facebook etc......
She lets you know where she is at all time......She spend all her time with you, you go to MC and you make sure you both each other's needs......
If she isn't willing, then she should move out and move on with her life......You tell her that you love her even though she has broken her vow to you and that you will be able to forgive her if she proves to you that she is committed to you and your marriage...
It's tough to be strong and you are taking the chance that she will leave, but in time she will realize what a mistake she has made.....she will understand when the affair fog lifts and she will see you as the great guy you are and the man that stood behind his wife when she was weak.......


----------



## Wisp

Plan your next steps carefully and set them into motion

She returns from holiday now. If she declines cancel the credit and debit cards. Consequences, no affair on family time or family money.

Next check if she is still texting the OM tonight I assume you can still see. 

It is at this point and with the knowledge of her texting or no texting you call her to get the flights moved, be calm Your marriage is more important than the holiday, if she were worried about the marriage she would be on the plane by now. If not --well now you know for sure.

In your own time tomorrow call the co-workers and OM’s ex wife bring them up to speed, keep consistent, you love your wife, affair with boss, for 18 months her lies, trying to build marriage, etc..

The OM ex wife is bound to call him and let his mates know..*Do this it is an NB step, it will enrage him consequences YOU DO NOT NEED TO CARE.*

Tonight, rest (easily said than done) and steel yourself for tomorrow.


----------



## turnera

I agree. When she comes back she gives you all her passwords, hands over her phone and computer if you ask for it. Writes a No Contact letter that you send. Agrees to counselling. 

If not, you pack up her bags and say goodbye. This is your ONE time to do so.


----------



## Wisp

i_feel_broken: Time for some gloves off with the OM.. 

Below is a processes to deal with the OM

This is the format that you need to follow in a conversation with the OM. Do this on Monday say 10:00 onwards; call him on the phone he must answer. Do not leave this as a voice mail

I have used a lot of the wording in a case I had to deal with at work.

***.. 


*Hello (OM’s full name) this is (your full name)

Thank you for answering the call.

I have a note to read out to you, please forgive me I need to read this verbatim without interruption*

*To confirm (Wifes full name) is in the employment of yourself (OM’s full name) at (Company name.)

As you are aware (wifes full name) has stated that on the (insert date 1) she advised you that she would be focusing on rebuilding our marriage and relationship with me and that you were not to interfere with the processes.

You furthermore stated to me on the (insert date 2 ) that you would respect her wishes.

It must be noted that records of text messaging and call logs have been recorded.

Since the (insert date 1) you have continued to maintain inappropriate contact with (Wife’s name)

This contact has been noted by (wifes name), myself - (your full name ), (wife’s name) friends, our family friends, (wife’s name) co-workers and her parents.

Knowledge of this contact and the intent behind it has caused some considerable stress to (wife’s name) , myself , our immediate family , friends, her co-workers and is now known by the (wife’s name) parents.

I need to advise you that we consider this activity and communication to be wholly inappropriate and should it not cease immediately we may choose to take further council. We will continue to record the text messages and call logs.

I need to reiterate once more .. should this inappropriate activity not cease with immediate effect and communication be restricted to a professional dialog within office hours only, then we will consider this to be harassment of (wife full name).*

Thank you for your time and thank you for listening

Is there any part of the note you wish me to re-read.

****
At the end say 

Once again thank you for listening….






Pointers:

date 1 ---was when your wife told you she told him it was over

date 2 --was when OM told you he would respect her wishes,this info is somewhere in you posts. i think it is the same as date 1 if you have times slot them in as well. 

Stick to the script

If he asks questions say … I am under advisement not to answer any questions. 

Keep repeating this if he pushes

Note his attitude, voice and any questions he may have asked throughout the call.

If he chooses to say something after you have said the last line follow the following script: ….

Do you have any suggestions as to what you (OM) will do to prevent this re-occurring?

If during the course he is wavering then say ..

(Wifes name) will be returning to work on Thursday, I suggest that you mail me and copy mail my (Wife’s name) with your proposal. As you are aware it will be extremely difficult for (wife name ) to continue in your employ so a way forward has to be mutually agreed. 



Leave it at that.


For you to know this is a sexual harassment case , she told him to lay off as per what she told you. He continued and you can and may have to lay charges against his business for not protecting the staff against a predator. 



Do this , waver not, have zero trust in what the OM says.

*And do let his ex wife know...*

What the hell do it today (Sunday)- if you pickup this post


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

IFB- Thanks for the post on my thread. I wish I were in your position. I didn't know the OM in my case at all or how to reach him. I like the way you have handled it. The direct contact with him really put him on the spot. That rocked the boat. You could very well have snapped your wife back into the real world with what you have done. Keep the positive, confident attitude and sho her what she will be missing. Keep everyone informed here. I'm pretty certain that if you need to vent or need someone to bounce things off, someone will be hear. I will be checking for you.


----------



## Wisp

I need you to have a clear head on this and answer a few questions.

The statement below

“Basically I asked her one final time if she was willing to try on the marriage properly with him out of the way or was she wanting to continue the affair. She chose to finish it.” - What did she choose to finish _the affair or marriage _I need to understand where her commitment is at the moment?

He then told me that he was going to ring my wife and it was nothing to worry about as he was going to put her straight… “He has apparently told her that he can't trust her and doesn't want anything to do with her” .. “_no she says he has ended it_”… Is this your view or did she say the last item. 


If he said it to her, we need to change a line on the note you are going to read to him. i.e. below.. 

****
As you are aware (wifes full name) has stated that on the (insert date 1) she advised you that she would be focusing on rebuilding our marriage and relationship with me and that you were not to interfere with the processes. _On the (date 3 – I guess Saturdays) you and (wife’s name) had a further conversation where (wife name) confirmed back to me that you had ended the relationship._

***
I think you may have been emotional when you spoke to her, this is from me to you, *at all times keep a grip on yourself*. You are doing very well and are proving to her you have backbone. 

You need to be absolutely charming, today when you call her (you must do this) be very pleasant and get your son to talk to mom. Ask how her day was. Let he know that she must have a wonderful break and when she gets back you will work together to help heal your marriage. Be positive,be nice, she may not be and may even be thinking What the hell? 

She needs to know you are not ending the marriage.

Call daily with the excuse son wants to talk to mom, we are playing a bit of physiological warfare here, moms love their children , let son talk to mom , she must know what she is missing and going to miss. 

If she asks what are you thinking of and how you are doing , script is – I am focusing on other things to help try take away the hurt

As far as the house sale, message is this is you preparing to protect all of you, as she is likely not to be employed in the near future. She is bound to go WTF.. Let her know this is, you are getting ready, to protect her and your family. Do not proceed with anything, I recall another post where she wanted to sell, guess what, that was because she needs to pay half the dept before she moves on, with the housing market down I guess you will be owing monies, play this carefully. 

Set your goals….

Do the call to TOM with the script, same tone all the way through no emotions nothing just say it, There is method in my madness, this is an HR thing, I am not in HR but often get seconded for the dirty work. When you have eye to eyel contact with her tell her what you said to him. Remember you are protecting her from the BAD guy. 

You must tell all the remaining co-workers – keep to the same script, nothing-desperate just strong husband taking pain but supporting his wife. (gossip on the floor does wonders)

You were with friends for her birthday. Get hold of them except this time use the script with We need your support to help rebuild our marriage. 

I still think you should tell TOMs ex wife or have conversation with her, perhaps she has his folks number or address.

Information for now

How old is:

TOM
WIFE 
YOU 


Post updates as you can 

Hold in there.Be strong, keep an eye on your health and watch your BMI


----------



## i_feel_broken

She chose to end the marriage. After what I had found out, 4th time of breaking promise about no contact, I was at the end of my patience. I wanted to know what her intentions were.

She says he has made it quite clear he doesn't want her any more as he can't trust her.

Well I had a great day today up until about 4pm. I took my son swimming then to the park, we then went for lunch and then to watch Toy Story 3. Spoilt him a bit but he is acting very differently at the moment, my parents have noticed it too. He is really clingy to me which is unusual in the presence of my family as he adores them and is extremely comfortable with them. He panicked when I went to the toilet yesterday! He is being very good for me and our bond seems to be really tight at the moment. 

Even though I'm loving the 1-2-1 time it got to around 3.30pm and my wife text asking if I needed to move a hair appointment that our son has as it could interfere with when I take him on holiday, she asked how our day was going. I text back that we were having a great day and that we missed her and couldn't believe we probably wouldn't share days with our son again. I guess without realising it I was fishing for a nice response. She replied with "im so sorry, it's a sad situation for us both". I set myself up for more rejection and it hurt. I had an hour of anger and anxiety where I wanted to phone everyone I hadn't already and tell them. I did try and phone one of her friends but no answer and OM's ex-wife but no answer. I'm wondering whether they have been told not to answer to me as no calls back either!. Luckily I was at my parents house at the time and they were there for me.

Anyway I decided to ring my wife and I'm really glad I did, I got myself together first and when she answered I asked a couple of questions then got down to business. I was really calm and said something along the lines of :

"Look I'm not after an argument and I'm not phoning in anger, I'm ringing because I just want the truth for once. Your answer has no bearing on my response but I just feel after all the lies you owe it to me just to be honest this one time. please. Just so I know what is going on please tell me what yours and OM's plan is and what you intend to do when you get back."

She said she was prepared to be honest and told me again he had made it clear that he was out of the equation and didn't want her. She at no time said she didn't want him but said her plan and focus is getting herself a rented pad and having some time to herself to find herself etc. (probably space to try on the affair but what can I do.). The tone of the conversation was friendly. I told her I still care about her and am worried about her as she seems to be in self destruct. I told her although I do care about her I can't work on the marriage on my own and don't want her while she is being this person that I feel I no longer know. I told her my script is the same and that I have began looking for another place and am looking into maybe buying my own place (that was lies). She seemed quite shocked by this, my son then entered the room as he was upset that he couldn't find me. I tried to get him to talk to her and he did a great job of saying a few words before starting to sob. This cut her up and I could here her start to cry I took the phone back off him and apologised that he couldn't talk and had to go and comfort him.

The conversation really took me out of the panic I was in, It made me feel more confident in my plan and although it feels horrible it felt good that I came across as the more confident and collected person in the relationship. I was also pleased that the whole conversation was friendly. I guess I basically rang and transferred my anxiety and pain onto her in a very indirect nice way. Why not - I don't deserve to feel like this anyway!


I still feel split about talking to his ex-wife as she is poorly and doesn't deserve it (if she is even bothered.). It may make me look heartless.

I have been preparing a long email to OM with lots of the suggested info in but want to get it right so am not sending it just yet. I have a couple of days.

Thanks again for everyone's input and i'll keep posting regularly


----------



## Wisp

All the best

One can only hope she comes round sooner than later


----------



## Wisp

Are you still trying to save the marraige?

Some of your actions do suggest this and the saying is - It ain't over till its over.


----------



## i_feel_broken

yes i would say i am BUT im not prepared to work on it on my own and she has proved she cannot work on it while in her job. She is taking the "im going it alone" stance. She knows she has to quit her job to work on the marriage but is not prepared to do it. I am sorting myself out to try and look after myself but at the same time to try and make her see what she is missing and that she needs me. I guess I'm trying to call her bluff in a way.

I have tried most other things.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

Are you going to stay faithful? And I don't mean that sexually. Are you thinking of dating? If you are not following Plan A you can reduce your pain by sharing time with fun people of the opposite sex. It does carry risks. You might find yourself attached.


----------



## Wisp

Make sure your wife understands that you are not divorcing her and you will still fight for your marriage, you expect her to remain true to the marriage. i.e. monogamous

Have her parents said anything since Saturday?

Complete the steps to exposure, the fact she has said she wants to move out does not change the status. 

It is no bad thing when she returns to let her know of the legal implications of sexual harassment by him to her in and out of work plus furthermore there may be discrimination at work as she ihas been getting preferential treatment. 

The OM needs to decide on his business or his lust

As for her financial responsibilities she is accountable for 50% of the bills and debt. 

If she intends to move out she will still have to pay these until the house is sold, put this before her

I am sure you have gone though this already. Look after yourself. 

I am interested to see if her mind changes on Wednesday when she returns.


----------



## Wisp

Not sure if this helps..

When she returns give her really big hug and tell her you love her, you are confident that together you will save your marriage and keep your son and family together

You are now playing on her positive emotions, just as OM played on her negative emotions. 

On a side note –if you so choose --- ask if she is still contacting the OM, again no lies and for the password to confirm what she says, if she declines then you know.

You are looking after yourself .. there is still a chance she will see the good in you and start realising the bad in the OM

Who gets your son? In other threads the father kept the children as she was the one who left the home, this caused his wife to want to maintain contact and visit regularly, it played on her guilt and values. Eventually broke the affair. –on the other hand if she looks after your son insist that the OM is not around him, the pressures of single mother hood start to play on her. 

Look at showtime’s thread..

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ly-cheating-desperate-help-needed-please.html


----------



## i_feel_broken

I do plan to stay faithful - I can't really imagine getting close with anyone else. I'm still to emotionally involved with my wife despite the treatment I have received.

Regarding my son - I am going to see a solicitor tomorrow to see where I stand. I have spoken with my wife and we are both being amicable at the moment and have managed to politely sort things out. I'm aware that this could change and her dad is a solicitor so I need to keep on top of things. Honestly I don't think she would want or could cope with full custody anyway. I would say I am definitely the primary carer and I know she needs her time out from him. I would want full custody but only if things got nasty as I want him to have both of us equally. 

I have just read showtime's thread and taken heart from it. He is my hero! really pleased for him.

I have spoken with her parents and I am travelling to see them later for a few hours (they live 1.5 hrs away). They would like to have a chat with me and I would like to talk to them before wife gets back from holiday. should be interesting.

I have sent wife a few nice texts, nothing needy or over the top - I posted some videos of our son on facebook for her so she could see him as she is missing him. Trying to let her know I still care.

I have waves of panic and sadness and then waves of strength. Very strange. I too will be interested to see her next. She is returning on wednesday and picking our son up from daycare, I think she then plans to take him straight up to her dad's house for a few days so I won't see her until saturday/sunday. I'm a bit sad I won't see her but not much I can do!


----------



## Wisp

Be strong, hang in there


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

Do you have someone you can talk to? Not just chat, but someone who will let you vent. This site is great but there is nothing like tlking to a flesh and blood. One of my friends, S, has turned out to be the absolutely greatest friend to me. We have always had a great connection. But he has gone above and beyond. I tell you there is nothing I wouldn't do for this guy. It really took me by surprise. Anyone there for you?


----------



## Wisp

I took this from one of affaircare's postings.....

"So regarding divorce my thought would be pretty much "Stay the Course" and I would advise that until the ink is dry on the paper. This is not so much to deny that a divorce is happening--I would also suggest that you take reasonable steps to protect yourself and your family and assets from the destructive and unclear thinking of a disloyal!--but rather to remain consistent and so your own conscience is clear that you did all you could to save the marriage and honor your vow. The fact is that sometimes a disloyal hardens their heart and they are determined to do what they know is wrong, and you can't stop them from doing it! What you can do though is sleep easy knowing that you did not enable it or encourage it."


----------



## LuckyCharmH

I just read all your posts. 

I don't why the heck you are doing that to yourself. you are a better person and great father. she i snot worth it. your weaknesses lead you to that situation. you have been hard on her, You should have giving her all these chances, you shouldn't have text ed her or called her for anything. you should have stopped and made her come after you. 

lets say she left that guy for good, what is going to stop her in future not to have another OM? her love for you? or her respect?

listen bro, I need it feels hard, I know you are going through panic and stress and depression. that's all normal, and will go a way after you leave her and you will look behind you and wonder how you stayed with her. 

look at the future, you will a more caring, more beautiful, more faithful woman than her and live happy. this woman is playing games, stop these games and stop her from ruining your life. 

always remember you are the good person here who stands for himself and his son, don't let a woman like her or man such as her OM stress you any more because that will affect your health and your son.


----------



## i_feel_broken

LuckyCharmH - I do know what you are saying but it's easier said than done. I am losing my wife and at least 50% of my time with my son.

I have good friends and family to vent to but I am on the edge today. My wife has probably just landed and on her way home. We have spoken a couple of times and the conversations have been good. I went to see her dad and step mum the other night and they were very supportive. My wife wasn't happy when I told her as I also told them about her depression, medication, counselling etc which they didn't know about. Once I calmly explained that it was just 3 people who love her and care about her talking about the best way to support her she cried and thanked me.

I feel a wreck this morning. I am at work but on the brink of leaving. I want to go home and wait for her, beg her to stay as she is taking my son away for 4 nights and I will miss them both so much. I want her to realise what she is doing is going to hurt everyone so much. I won't do this of course but I am tempted to go home for 20 mins at lunch as I do want to see her.

Her friend who she went with has posted what a great time she is having on facebook which makes me angry. 

feel like exploding, crying, smacking the sh*t out of OM.


----------



## i_feel_broken

well she has arrived home and phoned me in tears. She is in a real state - worrying about everything, where she is going to live etc. She says she is scared and doesn't know her own mind.

I don't know how to play it - 

"deal with it, you put yourself here" type attitude (Plan B almost)

or

be supportive etc (Plan A type stuff)

tough call - any advice


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

The usual advice is to come home on the condition that she write a no contact letter and allow you to read it and send it. But since she works with this guy she should have to agree to get another job and to commit 100% to the marriage. She is concerned about HER future. If she gets a chance to restart the affair you can't heal. The affair must end before you can make progress.


----------



## turnera

Plan A. No reason to be rude to her. Show her what she is losing. But do not offer to help her leave you.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Well I did a bit of both.

I think I folded a bit - I just can't seem to convince myself that taking a hard line is going to be the best way forward. It is such a difficult thing to do.

Definitely plan A'd her. before she left she looked into my eyes then we kissed properly. She thanked me for coming home from work and said she was glad I did. Well of course she is she got the love and support she needed when she was down. What I can't work out is whether I have just done the right thing and she has gone away thinking things could work or whether I have just been walked over again. Probably somewhere in the middle.
I did tell her I feel a bit stupid for coming and helping her as I realise that she could easily leave the house and be on the phone to OM. She said "So what are you trying to tell me, I don't expect you to help me". I admit i bottled it, I wanted to give the ultimatum there and then - cut off all contact or I offer no more support. I bottled it because she is so lost in herself right now that I'm worried she will simply see that as bailing out in her hour of need. I told her I was stronger now and that I have realised I don't NEED her in my life, I have my son, faimly and friends but I told her that doesn't mean I don't want her in my life and that I was still prepared to work things out in the right circumstances. She said she could see I was stronger and she held me and cried and told me she loved me.

What I do know is that there is more to sort out between her and OM. At the moment he has told her it is over as he can't trust her but I know that is not the end.

She has now gone with my son till Sunday morning and I am going to miss them both like crazy. I am speaking to her later on the phone and I'm thinking of saying something like

"I really want to love and support you like I have done today, like the husband you know I will be for you always. However while you are still in the midst of this affair I don't think I can offer you support like that again. Even if you end the affair but decide not to come back to me I will do my best to support you in this difficult time. I think everyone knows that a decision has to be made now. I think that decision at the moment is - continue with the affair or end it. If you continue with it I think we should push on with the sale of the house and I will continue to get on with my own life as I can not and will not support you in your affair"

I may actually wait until she has spoken with her parents and see what she has to say about that as I think they will have some very pro-marriage support for her. I would much rather she came to the conclusion without my ultimatum so it was her decision.

dig in I guess.


----------



## jessi

hi there, 
I think you did a good job, she needs to know that you still love her and are willing to work on your marriage, but you have to stand your ground about if she continues with the OM that she is making her choice and that you will have to move on......
When I gave my husband the freedom to go and live out the decisions he had made, he didn't go, he actually had to weigh out all the reality of the decisions he had made.....he no longer could live in the fantasy world the two of them were in, everyone knew, his children knew, he knew it would be his decision alone to end our marriage and move on with a woman he had only had a relationship with for a 6 month period.....
He was tormented and upset with his decisions and all the pain he himself had caused me and his boys........
He was embarrassed and I think he could see that most people just didn't agree with the decisions he had made.
When they are faced with the truth and the reality it's a different situation then just sneaking around in an affair, all the while having the comfort of the life they were living at home.....
Make her feel what she will be losing, let her watch you be stronger and happier without her in your life......
just tell her you wish you were trying to work on your marriage and that you still love her but you are left with the decisions she has made and that you can't do anything about.....
It killed me and I cried by myself a lot but I knew if I didn't take a stance he would see me as weak and needy......
I was prepared to let him go because anything less then him respecting me at this point was not acceptable to me.....
I think you are doing a good job and the most important thing is staying patient while she works things out in her head.....
Let her really see the OM for what he is and all his faults will come to the surface......
I know you will miss your son but this will also show her what it will be to be single mom....
All these changes are good for the thinking process..........


----------



## turnera

No ultimatums just yet. Do more exposure and see if the affair implodes. Continue to work on yourself and show her what she's losing. Every time she comes by to exchange your son, have the place looking perfect, you look and smell great, be cooking her favorite food so she can smell it, do all the honey-do's she asked you for but you never got around to...let her notice that YOU have the life SHE wanted.


----------



## Wisp

Indeed, keep showing your best side, I guess the OM will be issuing ultimatums.

Do carry on telling her friends the truth, look at it this way, you have lost your wife, everything you do from now on is upwards..


----------



## LuckyCharmH

Listen to me bro

I have a beautiful baby girl that I can Not live without, so I know how you feel for your son. 
I'm not trying to hurt you or anything but trying to wake you up as a brother. 
she said she love you, if she really does she would leave the world for you and not sleep with another person no matter what the causes are. 
if she said she loves, then a person wont leave his lover behind and go on vacation or spend 4 nights out side the house. 

the love you feel for her is more like just something you are used to it or attachment, how could you love a person after done all that to you and your son. look at it from your son point of view, she is hurting your son too not just you. 

lets say she left that guy, what would stop her down the road from not starting new affair? are you welling to go through that roller coaster again?

you gave her many chances and a lot of time to think, screw the job and the money, if a job and money going to make my love one misrebale i prefer to live on street with husband and kid rather than having a nice job. she should have left her job long ago if she was series. 

wake up man, look what she is doing, she is trying to buy time from or from OM to see where is going to end living, basically she wants to find a place to live with him, so she is buying a time with you until everything clear to her. 

Her crying even if it look sensible and faithful and innocent most women can pretend to get what the want, don't believe that trick. 

record what happen between you and her, get approve she cheating on you and leaving you and kids behind while she is with OM, and court will give you full custody. 

most OM wont like to accept a woman to live with them with a kid, they consider it responsibility. 

show her you are series, pack your stuff, all your stuff and leave the house and live with your friends or parents to show her that you are series and she is out for good, and you can take your son with you ( may be this step is hard, but sure you can do it)

and yes, I been in an arguments and fight with a wife so many time to a limit of a divorce, I told her this, would you like the house or keep it for myself. 

don't listen to her when she says she is hurting, she is having fun with you and her Boss, two guys spending money on her, she is taking vacation and traveling with friends, stay out all night. the OM is having fun as well, but you are the only person is hurting, start new life and show her you don't care, don't show her nice supportive husband no more, she is nothing, find you a good beautiful wife, and I'm sure and positive that god will reward you for the good deeds you have done to protect your family and son. find new person start new family, a new place safe and warm for yourself and son with a woman meant to be only for you not for everyone else. 

Stop kissing her and hugging her and whatever else.


----------



## i_feel_broken

okay thanks people. some good advice. comments below and then I have an idea for my next move which I could do with some advice on.

" look what she is doing, she is trying to buy time from or from OM to see where is going to end living, basically she wants to find a place to live with him, so she is buying a time with you until everything clear to her. " 
- I think you may have a point here, he is on holiday and she says she is confused. maybe she wants to see if she can work things out with him when he gets back.

"Continue to work on yourself and show her what she's losing. Every time she comes by to exchange your son, have the place looking perfect, you look and smell great, be cooking her favorite food so she can smell it, do all the honey-do's she asked you for but you never got around to...let her notice that YOU have the life SHE wanted."
"Indeed, keep showing your best side, I guess the OM will be issuing ultimatums."
- This is definitely my intention and I feel stronger week by week but I'm scared that she wants us to get used to being apart to make the split easier for her.

"but you have to stand your ground about if she continues with the OM that she is making her choice and that you will have to move on......"
I think that is key right now and I think I have a right to know which leads onto my possible next move.....

My wife is now staying with her dad and step mum for a few days and hopefully getting some pro-marriage input from them. She has put off the decision of selling the house until next week after I handed her the form to sign and take to the estate agent. What I have been thinking about is I guess an ultimatum. What I want to know is whether she wants to pursue the affair or not. It's as simple as that. If she is then I want to sell asap and just get on with my life - she can't have her cake and eat it and I'm sick of it. If not then I will need some solid proof and openness despite us being separated and then I would be prepared to look at other solutions regarding the house and be more willing to spend time as a family etc.

Do you think I should put that to her??


----------



## turnera

I think you are rushing it. Give yourself at least 2 more weeks to see what happens.


----------



## Wisp

Patience – work on yourself, be calm always

Please wait you have everything to win.


----------



## turnera

Spend that time doing more reading.


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks. i think I know that is the right move as progress seemed to be made when i saw her the other day. It's just the fact i have been there and had those same thoughts and been patient and been burnt. It's so tempting to lay it down to try and get the clarity I strive for


----------



## i_feel_broken

well i played mr nice confident guy. To be honest it did feel quite good as we had a nice conversation but i'm not kidding myself - I know she could be off the phone and straight onto him.

She is with all of her family now though and I am more confident now that they wouldn't support her doing that so she would have to hide it from them too. I hope it is feeling more like the wrong thing to do and more seedy. I'm so pleased I exposed to them, even her brother who she is probably closest with, is angry.

She is due home on Sunday morning. I just text and asked her to get my son to ring me. He rang a little while after which was nice, I then spoke to her. She keeps asking if i'm ok so I keep telling her I'm fine and telling her all the things I'm doing with friends etc and that I am sleeping well. I don't want her to think i'm some pathetic mess but at the same time i'm worried that if she thinks i'm okay with it all it will be easiest to go to OM if that makes sense. So i told her I was missing them both and it was wierd being in our big house all by myself. She said it's wierd not having a house to go to, she asked if I wanted her to bring my son home a day early, I said I might be going out with friends anyway but I would let her know, I then stressed that she is welcome to come home. I got the impression she wants to come home but won't ask me, she wants me to ask her or pretend it is for my sons sake. Not sure though.

Do you think I should invite her to spend the day with me and my son on Sunday. Last time I told her I would rather spend time on my own with him she committed back to me but I haven't seen her properly for almost two weeks and if she agreed it may be a chance to have a nice day together?


----------



## Wisp

Be very clear to her

if you stop the affair you can always come home. Mention the I love you part as well.

And Yes get her to come home early, family time is BIG plus for you


----------



## Wisp

You need to rebuff this ---"She said it's wierd not having a house to go to," ---be consistant it is not you at fault here, it is her doing.

Let her know she has a home she needs to stop the affair. Have your words ready all the time..


----------



## turnera

Invite her to go; make it clear, if she comes and then texts OM, that you want her to leave if she is going to shove her affair in your face.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Quick update. ill post again when I have more time.

My wife and I sat down and she told me everything. It has been a PA for the last year, leaving at lunch times to go to his house etc.

I felt physically sick, even though I knew deep down it was a PA it hurt so much to hear it. She said she wants rid of him and thinks we can be happy. She said she has to leave her job and doesn't mind upsetting him and getting rid of him.

Im so confused, I don't know what to do. I love her and want my family but have no idea how this is going to effect me.


----------



## Wisp

Hang in there , be strong, you will get over this.. 

The first step is for you to forgive her and invite her home to work together on this,. She must resign immediately as part of the processes.


----------



## Wisp

You must be able to let her know she trusts you; this is a big step on her side to have told you this. 

Yes it will hurt but now it is in the open she needs to be loved and move forward. Get her out of the job now, the finances can be sorted out later..

Be brave with this many many marriages recover to be strong .. Love as your wife and let her cry on you…


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks - i know your right. It's hard advice to follow when I have so much going on in my head. so many thoughts of them together etc.


----------



## jessi

hi there I feel broken, 
Well she has come to her senses and told you everything, it's hard to hear and hard to think about I know first hand, I'm in the same place as you.......
This is a process that will take minute by minute at first and then day by day to get through....
She has offered all the right things to you, now you can follow the plan that the vets set out and recover your marriage.....first step is quitting her job, sending him a NO CONTACT letter you both have read and send out together, she gives you access to her phone and computer and lets you know where she is at all times.....
Then you work on your marriage, filling each others needs, spending quality time together, fall in love all over again.....
When you have the triggers try to redirect your mind to something else........and when you have to cry together, understand what needs to be fixed so neither of you ever thinks that going outside the marriage is the answer.......
good luck and I'm happy for you.....
take all the time you need as well, my therapist told me that early on I shouldn't make any decisions that I just wasn't equipped emotionally to do that with any clarity........


----------



## Wisp

A word of warning.

Please do not assume the affair is over, while there is contact at the work environment there are conversations that you are not party to.

Even after exposure and a D day within the marriage, affairs are often re-ignited due to ongoing contact.

You wife has not been able to stop before and is therefore likely to be at risk of giving into TOM again. 

Sit with her, work on a robust exit strategy that works and eliminates the contact between her and the OM. 

You will need full access to all the information, her PDA password, and her whereabouts at lunch time, she can check yours as well – be open and say this is a two way thing. Your checking the call and texts has to be done in the short term until your relationship is out of the mire. 

Please ensure she knows this is not snooping this is openness and is part of the rebuilding the marriage together.

Suggest you order “His Needs, Her Needs” off somewhere like amazon.co.uk £8.63 with delivery change included. I can find the link if you wish.

Both of you need to read it.

Every day you need to reserve and hour or more to talk about what has happened and how and what to do you do going forward. This is a team effort. 

I will ask you to be very cautious and not assume that the way forward is clear –YET. Do not play all your cards especially if you are getting advice from here. Your wife has display great talent in hiding the PA


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

You are doing great. Remember, this next part may not be easy on you and you will have to be patient. She may go through withdrawal and be distant. Read Flowergirl 77 thread to see your wife's thinking. Stay the course.


----------



## turnera

I would recommend that you either get hold of Affaircare and do counseling through her, or else go to marriagebuilders.com and do their phone counseling. It is VERY marriage oriented and will give you specific tools to get through an affair - it's what they do. May save the marriage.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Getting her out of the job I know is the most important thing. She has said that is something she needs to feel she has done so she feels no resentment toward me for pushing her to leave. I have tried to make her understand she needs to do it asap for the sake of our marriage and she says she knows but she was a bit cautious when I mentioned me searching for new jobs. I am going to suggest we phone OM and she asks to be made redundant with a pay off and garden leave. If we get one of those three things then it would be a good start!

I am not going to take my eye off the ball regarding the affair. I want some part in the ending of it for my own sake. I can't let her just tell me she has done it. We have been there before. I need some closure. Hopefully a decent No Contact letter will help.

I will buy that book - we do have a few others on the go at the moment though so don't want to swamp her!


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks turnera - i'll have a look at affaircare and marriagebuilders. I think some impartial counselling would help


----------



## Wisp

Thoughts are with you in this difficult time, be strong, brave and forgiving. Take the steps needed to save your wife and marriage.

Best wishes


----------



## i_feel_broken

wife wont send no contact letter, talk to OM together. All she wants to do is leave it for a few days then she will tell him she wants to try marriage again. I have to believe it.

She will look for another job (could take months) but will continue to work there with him and keep it professional. They work in a company of 5 people I have learnt they used to go back to his house for lunch time sex etc.

Should I ask her to leave now?? is that unreasonable? she thinks that would be childish. I can't handle her working there at all at the moment. I am freaking out.

will probably have to leave work I feel so ill right now.


----------



## jessi

well the rule is here, if they stay in contact the affair doesn't end..
tell her to quit right away and not worry about the money right now.....the marriage is worth more than the job......
tell if she is serious about working things out with you that is what should happen, she should be willing to do this and also send the No Contact letter together......
No Contact means exactly that.......
Tell her you will not be able to live with and don't want her to work with the OM any longer....if she truly loves you she will understand this....
Tell her if she is not ready to commit to the relationship then maybe she should consider moving out until she is ready...
I hope she comes to her senses......


----------



## Wisp

My wife refuses to send a letter, speak on the phone together with OM or see him in the flesh together. HIDING THE TRUTH 

She wants to just go no contact until the weekend and then she will call him and tell him we are trying again. I will just have to believe she has done it. BOLLOCKS you have heard this before..

For you .

Please do not ever raise your voice, lose your temper or say things in a tone that causes her to get angry or want to step back. Be really strong in this; always be calm, no frustration or anger. Always let her know you love her and together you are strong.

Try keeping off the fighting part; do not loose your temper ever. Always let her know you love her without grovelling or weakening.

This is how I see your current position: -.

You have been there before with your wife, same story. 

She is hiding something, she is protecting him and she is keeping her options open. 

There have been things said she does not want you to know about. OR the affair is ongoing, perhaps since you called him it has hit a wobble.


I suggest the following:

I need you to assume that your marriage is over, indeed for YOU IT IS, as she is consistently not breaking off the affair relationship.

You are not going to give her any reason not to believe that you do not love her. 

Has she given you the password so you can track if she is still in contact with him? 

Please ask her for the password if she declines then take it as a given she is in contact with him, even today. 

Do not push just ask once only, no reason needs to be given other that it is transparency and helps rebuild trust between you and her. If she declines so be it. 


Are you able to write down in sequence for yourself the happenings and timetable of the affair?

Note the times she has re-committed to you, plus the times you have found out she did not keep true to the commitment.

It must be factual… it keeps your head logical and use this to steel your nerves.

Call her folks and ask for advice, they may have a proposal that helps


Call a lawyer; explain to him the status today, eg. She had an affair with BOSS, has told him it is over, if he continues to pursue her, or acts unprofessional at work can he be charged with harassment. What evidence do you need.. THIS STEP IS NOT REQUIRE FOR WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT. 



When you meet tonight please take the tension out of the air and let her know that you love her and trust her but you do not trust him.

Leave it at that and go out for dinner as a family have a great time. see what happens no pressure etc.. 



Now this is the brave part….

The threat to your marriage is huge and she is choosing not to take the recommended step to save your marriage. 

So now:-- *What are you going to do that is tangible*


You are going to draw up a script to follow. 


You are to take a day off work that the OM is in the office and your wife as well. 

You are going to steel yourself and


You are going to go to her office, the technique here is to either go in with her or pitch up after you drop your son off , be careful not to play your cards to her. This is going to bring the affair into the torchlight.


You follow the script, You will talk to the OM face to face, you are going to absolutely lay the facts on the table, use the words you have been having sex with my wife in her lunch times, , this stops now , there will be no further contact, we have support from her parents, we are going to remain together and rebuild our marriage and tell him your wife has agreed to this, say this IN FRONT OF HER.

DO not let it be a fight, if it happens in an area for all to hear SO BE IT. 

DO NOT loose your emotions but be very clinical about this. Follow your script keep on form.

Your wife may choose to leave you but I think you and both I believe unless she does the mandatory steps she has already left the marriage and is PLAYING YOU. 


If you choose you may prefer to do this via a phone call..

Follow the same script except …


When you are together take your phone put it on speaker and follow the script, make sure he KNOWS she is next to YOU…do not give her a heads up just do it.. 

You have made calls to him is the past and seem to have got through it OK. 

Never lose your temper , the aim is to force the message into his and her head. 

At this stage you must not give a DAM about HIM or her worries about exposure.


ALWAYS even after the call or face to face make sure she knows that you love her.


On a really personal note

I believe from what you have written , she has no intention of stopping and is infatuated with him.

There will be many reasons not to do the above but you just cannot go on like this … Her feelings are no longer your consideration, she certainly is not considering yours…


Thereafter swing to plan A or B from marriagebuilders..or make the last decision..


----------



## Wisp

She will look for another job (could take months) but will continue to work there with him and keep it professional. -- She is in LA LA land to think this will work


----------



## Wisp

Please note that my advice can be harsher than most. In your case your wife has a history of being dishonest plus the OM/ HER BOSS has lied to you as well.

The aim of the advice in the posts above is to ensure both of them get the same message from you, she will be in an awkward position and has either lied to both of you or just you.

This is advice only, Please look after yourself, the strain on you is enormous, do look after your health.

All final decisions are yours. We will still support you.

I guess you need to prepare for the worst and get ready for Plan A from marriage builders.com



Thoughts are with you


----------



## turnera

Wisp has good advice. She is playing you.

Your marriage is more important than her job, no matter what the economy is. How on earth do you expect them to stop the affair if she still sees him every day in a company of 5 people? She is LYING to you.

Go to her, tell her you are sick, you love her, and you need her to either quit today or tomorrow, or you will go in TOGETHER to the boss and tell him the truth and ask that they be separated until she can find another job. 

AND you ask her to hand over her phone NOW - THIS VERY INSTANT - with her passwords, as well as those for her computer.

If she refuses any of this, you go in the bedroom and help her pack her belongings and SHE LEAVES.


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks again everyone for the time you have taken to give me your input especially Wisp.

Things have been very tense the last day or so and we have argued quite a lot. 

I spoke with her dad this morning which has been very good. I told him about the PA disclosure and how desperate I was to get her away from OM.

He agreed that she would have to leave her job and is going to talk to her but he did warn me that if i push and demand it will push her away and make things worse. He said that they had a really good talk the other night and she made it clear to him that making the marriage work was definitely what she wanted. It was good to hear that as she is now making promises to her family about her intentions and they are supporting her so I guess it makes it harder for her to change her mind. He said as he father he has encouraged her always to work on the marriage as he feels that is the best place for her and he knows I am a good person and will look after her. He is very negative about the whole OM thing. He has been in similar positions and said he understands completely my angry reaction and that I am more than entitled to be angry. He advised to involve OM as little as possible in our lives but thought it would be a good idea to tell him in a short definite manner that we are trying on the marriage and about no contact etc then just cut him out as much as possible.

Short term - as much as I want her to leave the job immediately I think it would destroy us anyway. Yes I'm disappointed she won't do it for me but if her resentment for me making her do that is too much for us to get over then what good will it do?

She has promised she will look for another job and her dad is also going to encourage that. And of course so am I. Meanwhile we will try and arrange for her to work at home more and obviously they can't go on business trips together etc. I am also going to ask if she will have half an hour lunch and come home half an hour earlier so lunch times are shorter and she is home for myself and our son earlier.

I'm still wary about the whole thing but now her dad is involved I feel calmer.


----------



## Wisp

At least now you have a way forward and her family are on your side.

The arguing has to stop, it drives her to him, let the plan now flow, it is not the best way forward but once things settle can start progressing to the course you know its the right one...

From what you wrote her dads advice is sound,.

The call to the OM is going to have to be from you,, no need to hold back any punches make sure he knows she has committed to you AND her parents are supporting her to be in the marriage.. Let him know she has made full disclosure on them having sex.... no more.. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he is to stop interfering in your marriage and relationship. This is a short call, the fact you mention her family/parents lets him know there are moves afoot that he cannot manipulate in his favour.
Be very polite and controlled when you have the call, never lose your composure... Plan when to do this and do it.. 

For now you must must must be the loving, supporting husband you are,, this is the one thing you have to do and make sure you succeed in. She is mentally comparing you to OM she has to place you higher than him. 

Have family times with your son and her together, these are good times it again gives her the message that her family will come first..


----------



## i_feel_broken

Wisp said:


> The call to the OM is going to have to be from you,, no need to hold back any punches make sure he knows she has committed to you AND her parents are supporting her to be in the marriage.. Let him know she has made full disclosure on them having sex.... no more.. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he is to stop interfering in your marriage and relationship. This is a short call, the fact you mention her family/parents lets him know there are moves afoot that he cannot manipulate in his favour.
> Be very polite and controlled when you have the call, never lose your composure... Plan when to do this and do it..


I'm not sure the call should come from me? I have spoken to him and told him things in the past. All he says is well your wife will have to tell me that as I can not believe you. Also I think, in a way, if she tells him and is able to do it properly then he will get the message more than if its from me.

A great point in letting him know that her parents are on the side of the marriage. I think that will really make the message hit home. It would to me anyway.


----------



## Resonance

Your wife and her boss are having relations, which is backed by their confirmation and her refusal to send a letter. She is manipulating and using you while seeing another man. She knows she can get away with it as she has made no attempt to stop contact. Love is powerful, but there has to be a line drawn in the sand. Taking the problem to family members will only create a larger problem for you, as she will continue her infidelity in spite of what you have done. 

The worst part is that both are lying to your face and refusing to stop the relationship. You have grounds for divorce, and I do believe inter-office relationships are not allowed. You should do the right thing for both yourself and your child(ren) and end the bad marriage. She is creating a bad living environment for you and your children, creating unnecessary stress. 

Never be a door mat, let alone one to blatant liars and users.


----------



## turnera

Just go to their work and find him and tell him. Preferably with her standing there.


----------



## Blue Moon

Resonance said:


> Never be a door mat, let alone one to blatant liars and users.



More people need to read this advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## i_feel_broken

I do need to get some confirmation of the end of the affair because I can't just trust words. However I think your advice Resonance is no good to me.

"Taking the problem to family members will only create a larger problem for you, as she will continue her infidelity in spite of what you have done"

- So far it has had entirely the opposite effect.

"You have grounds for divorce, and I do believe inter-office relationships are not allowed" 

- Of course I have grounds for divorce but I don't want it and my wife says she doesn't want it. It will certainly hurt my child in the long run.

"You should do the right thing for both yourself and your child(ren) and end the bad marriage"

- Despite the affair the marriage has not been bad for my child. We do get on and have great family days out creating a great atmosphere for our child. WHat if the marriage turns out not to be bad

"Never be a door mat, let alone one to blatant liars and users."

- I don't like to consider myself a doormat. I have gone to great lengths and suffered lots of pain to keep my marriage and family together yes. I guess the proof will be if we can stay together and the affair is truly ended. If so then I consider my actions admirable and I wish more couples would not let pride ruin what could be a stable home. When I visited a lawyer he gave me a leaflet on separation and as he handed it to me he groaned and said "unfortunately theses days I run out of these quite often". People will always have affairs and make mistakes. I believe people should firstly do more in their marriage to prevent them and secondly make more effort to heal a marriage.


----------



## Blue Moon

i_feel_broken said:


> I do need to get some confirmation of the end of the affair because I can't just trust words. However I think your advice Resonance is no good to me.
> 
> "Taking the problem to family members will only create a larger problem for you, as she will continue her infidelity in spite of what you have done"
> 
> - So far it has had entirely the opposite effect.


But do you really want a relationship under these circumstances or feel like you can have one? I'm sure exposing to parents works in some situations, but I'm of the opinion that a relationship (ESPECIALLY a marriage) is something that a person has to want for themselves wholeheartedly to work. It's kind of like religion, I can convince a friend that they should learn the teachings of my God but at the end of the day that's a decision they have to come to with their own heart. I can point out scripture and teachings until the cows come home, but it's their leap of faith and their personal belief.

It just seems like getting back together because someone's parents told them to is a reach. Kind of like the guy who gets dumped and then goes and has dinner with the girl's parents (who love him) to stay in the family's good graces in hopes that the daughter sees the light. I'm sure she respects and values their opinion immensely but she's a grown woman who has to make her own decisions. If divorce isn't an option and you want to bring her back home I think you should do so on your own merit. She'll respect you for that and you'll be more of a "man" in her eyes in my opinion. After all, when all of the third parties in the know are going about their business it's you two behind closed doors who are going to have to either make this thing work or watch it fail.



i_feel_broken said:


> "Never be a door mat, let alone one to blatant liars and users."
> 
> - I don't like to consider myself a doormat. I have gone to great lengths and suffered lots of pain to keep my marriage and family together yes. I guess the proof will be if we can stay together and the affair is truly ended. If so then I consider my actions admirable and I wish more couples would not let pride ruin what could be a stable home. When I visited a lawyer he gave me a leaflet on separation and as he handed it to me he groaned and said "unfortunately theses days I run out of these quite often". People will always have affairs and make mistakes. I believe people should firstly do more in their marriage to prevent them and secondly make more effort to heal a marriage.


That's admirable, but just out of curiosity do you have a limit for how much you're willing to take? Sometimes it's just not worth it if one person is fighting for the marriage while the other person is out screwing around or putting another person above their spouse.


----------



## turnera

The thing is, Blue Moon, that people end affairs for many reasons. Exposure is a big one. What once seemed exciting, thrilling, fun and sexy can become - after your family knows - humiliating. Once that happens, you have a choice - continue to do what you know your parents (or others) think badly of you for, or stop the affair and either return to the marriage to see if you can fix what was broken, or go off on your own. Either of the two latter options are preferable.


----------



## i_feel_broken

UPDATE :-

hi all,

well we returned yesterday from a weekend away with my family. We argued a lot on friday as my wife had to go to a meeting in London on Thursday and met OM at tube station to walk to the meeting. She called me just before and after and did actually appear to be doing a good job of reassuring me. However I just can't deal with them being alone together in any capacity that is clear now. At the moment I feel I have to deal with them spending 1 day a week in the office together when not on their own but that was a step too far. We argued to the point I was close to telling her to leave and I didn't want her to come on holiday with us. Anyway we sorted it out and she came, my family were very supportive of us and I think that helped her as it was a hard situation for her to be in.

I can't get the images of them together out of my head. How do I get past that, I am going to continue counselling to help me but it's so hard. She wants to forget and for us to be more upbeat and happy. I had a couple of quiet periods during the weekend when I took myself off to be alone as I was spiralling and I didn't want the holiday spoiled with it (It was my dads birthday trip that he had paid for). She kept asking me "is anything wrong - you seem upset?". I just wanted to shout back "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS WRONG - YOU HAVE BEEN SLEEPING WITH OM FOR A YEAR. HAVE YOU GOT ANY IDEA WHAT THAT HAS DONE TO ME!!!!"

She just wants to put heads in the sand and move on. I think I can forgive her and maybe have started to already but I can't forget right now. Can anyone reassure me that this gets better or give me any tips. I feel like he has taken something from my marriage I can't get back. He has had his hands over MY wife and knows secrets about her only I should know. It is completely devastating and consuming.

I realise I am in a position to work on things. She is at home with affair supposedly finished, our families all involved and on our side. Obviously things are going to take time, I don't want to mess up this opportunity to show her it can work by being grumpy/angry but it's hard to just carry on as normal! 

One point I would like to share is that she has told me recently that she kept wanting to come back to me but felt she couldn't because of what she had done. She said she was close to leaving me for good but I was being so nice to her which made it so hard as she did love me. I guess Plan A stuff really does work and definitely worked for me so if anyone is in the same position please give Plan A a good chance. In the end I plan A'd her to the point she just confessed everything so nothing was in the way for her to return and when I greeted the truth with more love for her she came back. Doesn't make it easier to stomach but she is back...


----------



## turnera

What steps is she taking to reassure you? Passwords? Handing over phone and computer? Calling you when she goes anywhere?


----------



## i_feel_broken

pretty much none. she says she can't live with me snooping in her stuff.

I do have a password to her google account and can see her search history. Today it shows she is looking for somewhere to rent. I am destoyed. What the hell is she doing!!??

I rang her and told her I was booking a hotel night away for us a week on saturday and she seemed excited about it and told me to book. What the hell. I can't work her out!


----------



## i_feel_broken

she has also just agreed to not put the house on the market so i have phoned estate agent and cancelled


----------



## turnera

Have you read Surviving an Affair?


----------



## FUEGO

I would leave that alone. Once she cheats she's gonna always do it. She could bring you back something.


----------



## turnera

i_feel_broken said:


> pretty much none. she says she can't live with me snooping in her stuff.
> 
> I do have a password to her google account and can see her search history. Today it shows she is looking for somewhere to rent. I am destoyed. What the hell is she doing!!??
> 
> I rang her and told her I was booking a hotel night away for us a week on saturday and she seemed excited about it and told me to book. What the hell. I can't work her out!


 This is a really bad idea. Right now, YOU need to be the victim here and YOU need to set some rules on how you'll stay with HER. For starters, she HAS to earn back your trust by (1) giving you her passwords, and (2) getting a new job.

If she is unwilling to do those things, she is either lying about stopping the affair or waiting for you to back off before she finds someone else.

If you don't respect yourself enough to say 'I won't live with you without that amount of respect for my feelings after what you've done, then I don't need to be married to you.'

This is a critical time for you to establish that one, very logical requirement of transparency from her. If she won't do that, she'll continue to cheat.


----------



## i_feel_broken

well this looks like the end.

She has left me and intends to make it work with OM. She did not stay at home last night so I turned up at OM's house at 6.00am this morning and confronted them.

I did this to help me give her up. I saw them together, having breakfast with his kids. I am so angry but that helps me deal with everything. 

I explained to them that I would always be fair with our son and despite everything I would be civil for the sake of our son. I told them I would tolerate lots for his sake but what I would not tolerate is him being lied to about what has happened (when he is old enough to understand). I would also not tolerate them blaming me for what has happened, I made it clear it was their fault.

I really hope me and wife can be civil about all this. Hopefully that lies with me and I feel strong enough to do it for my son.

She is going to move her stuff out and probably live with him until she finds a place to rent or he rents a bigger place. Our house will be on the market next week.

I have never experienced feelings and pain like this before. I'm trying to hold everything together. Has anyone who has been in a similar position got any words of wisdom. please.

I know everyone keeps pointing at Plan A but I feel I have done this enough and gone through enough and at the end of the day if she wants to be with him and is not prepared to work on the marriage what's the point?? She loves him. not me. How can I win? and if that is how she feels what is the point of trying to win?

Also everyone points at the fact that she had an affair for a reason i.e. it's partly my fault but this is my thinking. I gave my all for my wife and helped her A LOT through her depression. Then things got tough for me, young child, house move, depressed wife, job difficulties. I needed the support of my wife but instead she had an affair because for a few months I did not devote myself to her and her problems? how is this my fault? how is that a relationship??


----------



## Wisp

Work really hard to get the larger portion of custody of your son. He must not move out of your house, you need to push to be the primary carer, give lots of examples and evidence. 

Holidays on her own without son are a good example.

If she loves her son she will want to be near him so do what is required to keep your son, she has moved out not you,, it her loss, do not be flexible on this and do not agree while you are married that she takes son to be with OM house. 

Bring her folks up to speed very quickly and her co-workers.

For goodness sake tell his ex wife... 

Remind her she is 50% responsible for the bills including the house payments.

It is not over until you say it is over

Thoughts are with you , whatever happens be strong and hold the moral high ground.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

It is hard to believe and to grasp. Spend alot of time with whoever is youor confidante. You need someone to really be there for you and let you talk and grieve. Keep your son close. That will help immensely. Talk to your doctor again about your medication.
You are a very brave man. You are also very strong. Post here as often as you feel stressed. We are all here for you.


----------



## turnera

Have you told her entire family? HIS family? You need to do this NOW before she paints YOU as the problem.

I promise you, if kids are involved, she WILL tell everyone YOU are the problem.

Protect yourself.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Hi,

Turnera - everyone knows the full truth who needs to now. fully exposed by me

thought I would post an update as I had an interesting lunch with my wife today.

She has been living with OM for 3 weeks now. He has spent 1 of those weeks on holiday with his kids and he has spent every mon - tues - wed in london with work. I have tried to do mainly plan B and a little plan A during this time. To be honest I haven't really been concentrating on anything else than looking after myself and my son. We organised that she would have our son Sun night - wed morning and I would have him wed night - sat morning then alternate saturday nights. This has worked out well for me as I get to see him quite a lot and I have also had time to go out with friends, play golf, football etc. Although I miss both of them really badly when on my own.

Our house is on the market and if it sells I have identified another house I want to buy for my son and I.

Last night my wife rang me and asked if I could meet her today for lunch. I agreed and I spent an hour with her today. She cried for most of it and said I had been right about the fact that she would not be happy once she left me for him. She feels very guilty and ashamed of everything she has done. She says she can't believe what she has done to me and that she has ended up where she is. It is the first time she spoke remorsefully and like my wife from before the affair. She is suffering fairly badly with her OCD, anxiety and depression.

I didn't really say too much, part of me wanted to beg her to come back and leave him but part of me - the stronger more focussed part of me - that has been strengthening these past couple of weeks knew that wasn't the way forward. I'm not sure we can even be together now. All my friends and family would think it was the wrong move and may well be right. Exposure may well have made the affair magic dwindle but it would be a lot easier to take her back if no one knew. She has lots of problems that I will be dealing with for the rest of my life as well as getting past the affair.

I hugged her and told her she knew where I was. She felt and smelt so good and it was so good to hold her. She hinted at collecting our son together and putting him to bed at our house so I could see him (haven't seen him since sat). I badly wanted to say yes but I know OM is coming back tonight so she would leave to go back to him and his house alone. I decided to put up my boundary as I didn't want to accept this. I told her I had footy training and I would collect him as usual tomorrow.

Feel weird at the moment. I miss her so much but I don't miss the last few months of crap I have taken and the paranoia etc. I don't want that back - I have managed to enjoy myself a bit despite being without wife and son. If she did come back and I gave our marriage another chance all those feelings would return - "is she texting him" etc etc. In a way it is slightly easier knowing she is there but unhappy with it. So confusing.


----------



## Wisp

Hold in there…

The only item I think you could have said differently is 




> "I decided to put up my boundary as I didn't want to accept this. I told her I had footy training and I would collect him as usual tomorrow"


You should have said what you said earlier about her going back to the OM and that was unacceptable..



> She is suffering fairly badly with her OCD, anxiety and depression.


Don't care nor should you - before you would have been there to support. 


Stay stong for all and keep on track..


----------



## turnera

I'm glad to hear. This is progress. Whether or not you want her back, you've hopefully helped keep your son from ending up in that tragic situation. Everything you describe is right on target and perfectly normal. 

As for everyone knowing, just be honest with them. If you decide to take her back, tell them that you KNOW how bad it looks, but that you have been dealing with this very logically; weighing pros and cons; and maybe even that this way you keep your son's family intact - hard to argue with that one. But reassure them all that you are taking very strong steps to ensure that (1) an affair never happens again and (2) you two are working very hard to create a VERY strong marriage that would never need an affair again and you are going to be very happy. 

This is all doable.


----------



## Affaircare

> ... She cried for most of it and said I had been right about the fact that she would not be happy once she left me for him. She feels very guilty and ashamed of everything she has done. She says she can't believe what she has done to me and that she has ended up where she is. It is the first time she spoke remorsefully and like my wife from before the affair. She is suffering fairly badly with her OCD, anxiety and depression.


This is oddly enough fairly natural for an affair, and I'm especially not surprised for your wife. If I remember correctly, she rang the OM and told him she was ending contact (even though she kept it hidden), so part of her even then was soft enough to know consciously that she's choosing the wrong thing. Dealing with her OCD, anxiety and depression adds a whole other layer to this situation, but for a "typical" disloyal who still has a somewhat soft heart, they love the thrill...the love rust of the affair-zing...so they may know they should stop and want to but feel like they can't. 

It sounds like she knows, but doesn't have the strength or courage to do what she knows to do. In Real Life (IRL) she is going to have to face herself and her OCD, anxiety and depression...and she's going to have to find the strength to choose to end the affair. Yes, she'll miss the affair-zing but if she endures the withdrawal from it, you two have a chance of rebuilding!! The big question is whether she has the courage to face herself and take action to deal with her choices. 

I'm not sure how much you are (or were) involved in helping her deal with her OCD, anxiety and depression but it is conceivable that many of those symptoms now are greatly exacerbated because she's doing what she knows is wrong. So some of those things might ease considerably if she'd just do the right thing! 

Next, she may think she has painted herself into a corner--now that you've gotten stronger she may think you no longer have feelings for her and she's no longer welcome. So depending on where you are, you may want to let her know that you realize you no longer need her in your life and you're quite happy with you and your son...BUT that you would be willing to consider giving her the time to prove to you her sincere regret and show you the ways that's she's changed and dealt with her own personal issues. If she changes and you also make changes, it may be to your advantage to let her know that you have not made up your mind, but you are open to the possibility of considering something new...with her. From this point forward there is no reason you two couldn't learn and grow closer from this! 



> Feel weird at the moment. I miss her so much but I don't miss the last few months of crap I have taken and the paranoia etc. I don't want that back - I have managed to enjoy myself a bit despite being without wife and son. If she did come back and I gave our marriage another chance all those feelings would return - "is she texting him" etc etc. In a way it is slightly easier knowing she is there but unhappy with it. So confusing.


Actually you would be surprised. When a disloyal actually "gets it" and realizes that they've made a mistake, it can actually be a lot different. That paranoia of "Is she texting" would easily be relieved by a partner who understands that she was the one who chose to be secretive so now she deserves to give you nothing less than complete openness. Thus, when a disloyal is truly repentant, they'll freely LET YOU check their texts and phone and whatever you want....and then behave in a way that demonstrates to you that they are being open. Yes, in a way it feels a little stifling, but at least to my mind, what I thought was: "I'm the one who strayed thus this checking is reasonable for both of us. It assures him I'm being honest and builds trust, and it keeps me honest and behaving in a way that builds trust." Is it like the loyal becomes the disloyal's policeman? No. The disloyals who REALLY GET IT will police themselves. 

So yeah if your heart is in this place, I'd suggest somehow communicating to her that you are in NO WAY ready to return to what was happening before, but you would be willing to consider the option of letting her show you the work she's done to return to doing the right thing.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Affaircare said:


> It sounds like she knows, but doesn't have the strength or courage to do what she knows to do. In Real Life (IRL) she is going to have to face herself and her OCD, anxiety and depression...and she's going to have to find the strength to choose to end the affair. Yes, she'll miss the affair-zing but if she endures the withdrawal from it, you two have a chance of rebuilding!! The big question is whether she has the courage to face herself and take action to deal with her choices.



I think you have really hit the nail on the head here affaircare. From the discussions we had yesterday she is clearly now beginning to understand and regret what she has done to the point she can't believe it and has properly apologised. As part of her anxiety she suffers heavily from depersonalisation and derealisation. I'm not allowing it as an excuse for everything but it is a factor like you say.



Affaircare said:


> I'm not sure how much you are (or were) involved in helping her deal with her OCD, anxiety and depression but it is conceivable that many of those symptoms now are greatly exacerbated because she's doing what she knows is wrong. So some of those things might ease considerably if she'd just do the right thing!


At times I was heavily involved in all her problems, I did suffer burnout a couple of years ago when we had our baby as I was primary carer for the baby for a while. She said yesterday she knows I am the one that has fought hardest to understand what she is going through.
She says she is very ashamed about what she has done/doing, she knows it is wrong and I think she wants to do the right thing. She is scared and confused but I think she knows she can not come back home and continue to work in that job with him. Been here before! 



Affaircare said:


> Next, she may think she has painted herself into a corner--now that you've gotten stronger she may think you no longer have feelings for her and she's no longer welcome. So depending on where you are, you may want to let her know that you realize you no longer need her in your life and you're quite happy with you and your son...BUT that you would be willing to consider giving her the time to prove to you her sincere regret and show you the ways that's she's changed and dealt with her own personal issues. If she changes and you also make changes, it may be to your advantage to let her know that you have not made up your mind, but you are open to the possibility of considering something new...with her. From this point forward there is no reason you two couldn't learn and grow closer from this!


This is great advice - thanks. She definitely feels in a corner. She wishes none of this had happened and she wishes she could just come home but she knows she will have to give up job and doesn't feel well enough to get another so will become dependant on me and a stay at home mum. That TERRIFIES her.


----------



## turnera

What does she do? Maybe she could start some type of at-home business. Or sell Avon. Or something!


----------



## i_feel_broken

well i broke.

She basically told me she was scared and confused and didn't know what to do. her counsellor told her that she needs to focus on getting her thoughts together before making a decision.

All fine and well but does she expect me to just sit around waiting for an infinite amount of time while she is likely shagging OM. Her and her counsellor need to get in the real world. I love her to bits and am devastated but i need to draw the line somewhere. I was getting stronger with her living there then she holds out an olive branch and tries to draw me back into limbo again.

I told her what affaircare told me to that i was willing to start something new and that i loved her. She just ate it all up, had her ego stroked then said she needed time. there is plan a and then there is doormat. I told her she should come home and stay in spare room and get her head straight there, I told her I could not accept her staying with him one more night. She said she understood and that she was sorry.

She is not going to leave him and her job - she just wants me to be like a puppy and wait for her and get emotional support from me.

This has all set me back weeks. Did I do the wrong thing?


----------



## Wisp

You told her what you wanted. She did not respond in the correct manner. Leave it for now you know where you stand so does she. 

Write yourself a script and stick to it. Keep to those boundaries. An example - In future she does not have access to the family home unless you are there. 


Always assume the worst, your wife has played you well in the past and she has an expert divorced OM, with money, has a great hold on her through her job and is advising her. 

For now carry on working on yourself. Your wife is not going to be in a hurry to repair the marriage nor does she care about you. You need to focus on you and your son only.

Get yourself a darn good lawyer and see what you can do to get maximum custody of your son. English law is not kind to the husband. Plan for when the OM is home full time, you do not want your son with him.

The stage your are in you must not trust or believe your wife at all, actions speak louder than words.

Previously I said quite harshly about not caring for her stress, I mean it:- she does not care for you or her family, the more stress she is under the better, as a one human to another you can feel sorry but in your wife’s case harden your heart, smile be nice but that is all.

No words that imply you are the lapdog. 

In the interim do family days without her, like visit her folks so they can see their grandson. If you have common friends that you meet, make sure you come across strong, concerned for her well being and as a great loving husband. If they ask let them know you love your wife but she is b??g her boss. Nice words like having “affair” are let downs and dilute the tackiness of her relationship with her boss. Message will get back to her and ho hum…

I would like to say differently but in your case I believe your wife may be gone, be prepared for this and focus solely on you and your son. Be the better man and hold the moral ground. 

You are the prize and there are a lot of better woman out there that would love to be with you. Believe this and be very confident in your life


----------



## i_feel_broken

Thanks again wisp. Today feels different. It feels really over from my side as much as hers. I feel numb. She has not replied to the damning email I sent her at 5.30 this morning or to a 'to the point' email I had to send her about the sale of the house.



Wisp said:


> Previously I said quite harshly about not caring for her stress, I mean it:- she does not care for you or her family, the more stress she is under the better, as a one human to another you can feel sorry but in your wife’s case harden your heart, smile be nice but that is all.


I have to admit that is the advice I got from my parents and I also have to admit I didn't follow it. In her selfish state my wife seems to judge people on how willing they are to be there for her. I thought if I plan a'd her and showed her I was there for her regardless she would see that and want me back. It sort of worked but only to the point where she took what she needed, gave me a hint of what i needed to keep me supporting her but when it come to the crunch she won't act. she won't leave him and her job. I know this advice is now the right advice and I intend to follow it.

I could tell her she is not allowed to enter the family home but to be honest I don't think she wants or needs to and she does pay half of everything at the moment which i need.

I have emailed the lawyer I visited last month to arrange a follow up meeting.

I just can't believe or grasp how my life has come to this. Why did I pick the bad one, I had the pick of a few really nice girls and I chose badly. Why did i fall in love with this troubled woman!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Wisp

You can't help who you fell in love with.

What you can do is change the course of your life for the better. She either will have to get on the bus properly and be in the marriage or as she has one leg in the OM camp she needs to get off and learn to walk in la La Land on her own. 


On a side note keep a journal of events as far back as you can go, not sure if this helps at present but going forward it may do. I would like to say if she is under pressure she forgets to pick up son for day care etc.. may not happen if it does it may play in your faviour.

If your wife is paying half the bills then see if the lawyer can adapt this to her paying to support the family and you are the primary carer. 

The lawyers will know best, if he is not on the same page as you get another opinion

Best wishes


----------



## kathrab2009

I would go with plan A you cant make people change they are who they are. You obviously still love this lady but she has hurt you dreadfully more than once if you get a chance try and be strong and walk away there are other women who would love to be in a relationship with a loyal faithful caring man. Dont put yourself or your Son second this time walk away she will do it again. I have been there all the best


----------



## turnera

i_feel_broken said:


> Thanks again wisp. Today feels different. It feels really over from my side as much as hers. I feel numb. She has not replied to the damning email I sent her at 5.30 this morning or to a 'to the point' email I had to send her about the sale of the house.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit that is the advice I got from my parents and I also have to admit I didn't follow it. In her selfish state my wife seems to judge people on how willing they are to be there for her. I thought if I plan a'd her and showed her I was there for her regardless she would see that and want me back. It sort of worked but only to the point where she took what she needed, gave me a hint of what i needed to keep me supporting her but when it come to the crunch she won't act. she won't leave him and her job. I know this advice is now the right advice and I intend to follow it.
> 
> I could tell her she is not allowed to enter the family home but to be honest I don't think she wants or needs to and she does pay half of everything at the moment which i need.
> 
> I have emailed the lawyer I visited last month to arrange a follow up meeting.
> 
> I just can't believe or grasp how my life has come to this. Why did I pick the bad one, I had the pick of a few really nice girls and I chose badly. Why did i fall in love with this troubled woman!!!!!!!!!


 Because nice guys with self-esteem issues seek out sick girls so they can fix them - which is what makes the guy feel good. (and nice girls...)

Until you no longer get that ego stroking of her being 'grateful' to you.

In reality, sick girls quickly lose respect for Fixers and move on to find sick boys who treat them as badly as they secretly feel they deserve. In other words, they self-destruct. The better you treat her, the worse her actions will be.

IMO, the ONLY way she will ever come back to you (though I hope she doesn't, as you deserve better) is if you turn your back on her and MOVE ON. Once you're no longer feeding her ego, she'll go 'huh? wait a minute! HE is supposed to Give to ME!'

YOUR next step needs to be therapy, so you can learn to like yourself, get MAD at her for doing this, and learn to recognize such people so the next one you pick is healthier.

My brother didn't marry til he was 35. He kept picking sick girls. One after another, basket cases. Wasted 20 years of his life trying to 'fix' girls so he could feel good about himself. Finally, he met this woman who was NONE of that. And she had a sense of humor, was addicted to the Astros just like him, and wouldn't take his crap. She's the best thing that ever happened to him.

You'll find someone like that, too.


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Because nice guys with self-esteem issues seek out sick girls so they can fix them - which is what makes the guy feel good. (and nice girls...)
> 
> Until you no longer get that ego stroking of her being 'grateful' to you.
> 
> In reality, sick girls quickly lose respect for Fixers and move on to find sick boys who treat them as badly as they secretly feel they deserve. In other words, they self-destruct. The better you treat her, the worse her actions will be.
> 
> IMO, the ONLY way she will ever come back to you (though I hope she doesn't, as you deserve better) is if you turn your back on her and MOVE ON. Once you're no longer feeding her ego, she'll go 'huh? wait a minute! HE is supposed to Give to ME!'
> 
> YOUR next step needs to be therapy, so you can learn to like yourself, get MAD at her for doing this, and learn to recognize such people so the next one you pick is healthier.
> 
> My brother didn't marry til he was 35. He kept picking sick girls. One after another, basket cases. Wasted 20 years of his life trying to 'fix' girls so he could feel good about himself. Finally, he met this woman who was NONE of that. And she had a sense of humor, was addicted to the Astros just like him, and wouldn't take his crap. She's the best thing that ever happened to him.
> 
> You'll find someone like that, too.


Turnera,

I don't ever remember saying I had a self-esteem issue but I think I probably did/do to a certain extent and I know I'm a nice guy.

This post was a weird one to read, it made me look at myself more than any other post I have read. I guess I did think I could fix her and she has definitely lost respect for me.

I know you are right in everything you have said, I know I deserve better and I know she will not come back to me and I'm not even sure I can handle having her back. But still I want her back so badly. It's the strangest thing. I think this is truly the end for her and somewhere in my logical brain I am telling myself her not coming back might be the making of me and my happiness. I need to let go but can't, I think if it wasn't for our son it would be so much easier.

Thank you for your brothers story, I hope I can follow in his footsteps. What also makes me mad is that before my wife I had the nicest girlfriend in the world, she was so great to me and perfect in so many ways. My family loved her and she loved my family. We were just about to move in together and I gave her up for my wife, there was no real cheating involved. I got talking to my wife at a few work events and she asked me out. Nothing happened but I realised I had feelings for my wife that I needed to explore so was honest with my girlfriend and ended the relationship. My wife and I got together properly 5 months after that. She would have been so great to live with. I was 23 and had my girlfriend for 5 years, i needed to explore other avenues. I wish I had met her later.


----------



## turnera

Well, with a 60% divorce rate, chances are fair that she's available...

The self-esteem thing...it comes across in the way you describe her, yourself, all the effort you put in, and your trouble getting mad and letting go.

Someone with a really healthy self-esteem would have long ago said 'Hell no!' and kicked her to the curb because you would 'know' you deserve better than this. It's a tricky thing. Which is why I encourage counseling. We ALL have our insecurities and self-doubts to work on.


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Someone with a really healthy self-esteem would have long ago said 'Hell no!' and kicked her to the curb because you would 'know' you deserve better than this. It's a tricky thing. Which is why I encourage counseling. We ALL have our insecurities and self-doubts to work on.


that's interesting and i actually tend to agree but does that not go against all the advice given on this forum to encourage reconciliation etc.. keeping the family together?


----------



## turnera

Actually, people who post here give kind of a hodgepodge of advice ideas and try to bundle them together so you can pick and choose what works in your situation. I don't mean to say that at first; I meant that, after you've worked really hard, followed Pete's steps to ending an affair, and then stepped back to see if it works...THEN, if it doesn't work, you need to say (when she carries it on under your nose)...Hell no! I won't put up with this any more. Sorry I wasn't more clear.


----------



## i_feel_broken

i see what you mean now.

My wife read the email I sent her which was very direct and a bit unpleasant. She was angry and upset. I wasn't that bothered as it's clear this marriage is over. I did however worry this was going to drive us down an unfriendly custody battle.

I emailed this morning to let her know we have a viewing on the house and cleared the air a little. I told her the we were clearly over and that I could no longer be there for her in any way emotionally but I would be thinking of her next week. She has her nans funeral and two therapy appointments at the beginning of the week and I have our son most of the week. OM is away mon - wed so it is about time she realised she has to cope by herself or with OM. 

I am now going to try my hardest not to contact her at all unless I have to. I'm going to get myself back on track - I was actually doing okay until tuesday when she gave me the glimmer of hope. I am joining a gym on monday near work and will go running/swimming or training most lunch times. I think this will help.

I am finding it hard to let go despite everything and despite the fact that I know I will be happy if I can pull myself out of this sh*t. Need to be strong. I don't think it is yet clear in my head what I want

thanks everyone


----------



## willzy

No real words of advice I'm afraid. Just wanted to post to say I'm sorry things have turned out this way and I hope you find happiness.

GL


----------



## turnera

Are you ready to do a Plan B letter?


----------



## Wisp

Hi broken

Whatever your emotions tell you, you must at all times behave impeccably to your wife, in words and deeds. In your heart you have to be firm, you follow a set coarse and stay on track. 


The only time you should feel any hope is if she should return home and complete all the actions required to dump the OM. Until then you be very strong in yourself. Remind yourself you are fighting for your son first, you second and then your wife and marriage. The first two are the greatest priorities.

On a side note, did you know her Nan, if so out of respect to the Nan ask your wife if you can accompany her to the funeral, then speak to her folks and say you will be paying your respects to her Nan, if they would allow you to do so. Important you are not imposing. If you attend hold your head high and be proud, all will look at you as the betrayed spouse and her as the cheater. 

Good luck


----------



## i_feel_broken

Sometimes I am very ready to do a plan B! but right now I can't bring myself to do it. If it wasn't for her job I don't think this affair would last at all - in fact I don't think she would be there now.

I offered to go to the funeral with her and I think she did want me to go but said maybe it was better if I didn't as she will be emotional and it wouldn't be fair to use me for her support. I didn't argue but just let her know I was there if she needed.

I had a great weekend with my son, I let him stay home all day on Saturday as I think he is becoming a little unsettled, then we went to a party with some of my friends early evening which he loved. We went swimming on Sunday then wife came to get him at lunch, I went off and played golf and went to the pub with friends which was great. My son didn't want to go, he said "I don't want to live with mummy I want to live with daddy. he is my best friend". I don't really want him to think like that as he needs to be happy wherever he is but it is having an effect on my wife.

yesterday she picked him up from nursery and I'm not sure why but I just had a feeling she would ring me and she did. She said my son just wants to come home and what should she do? I told her it was her decision but she was welcome to come round for a bit. She came round for an hour and it was good to see her - I offered to cook for her but she declined, she broke down a few times crying with no real explanation. She said she feels like she is not missed/needed and she could just drive off in her car and no one would care. I told her this wasn't true but didn't go overboard as I was aware of the fact she maybe after another ego stroking. She did seem to want to hug me a lot when she was leaving and she kissed me on the lips which wasn't usual.

I spoke to her again this morning and she was upset as my son just wants to be at "home" with "daddy". I know my bond with my son is very strong as a result of all the time/effort I have put in. She says he doesn't want to be with her and says it is her fault and she deserves it so she will have to deal with it.

I went out last night with a friend for some drinks - she was very curious where i went and who with. I could tell she wanted to ask me who with but I wasn't giving up the information. I think if I was to go out with a girl it would make things very interesting but I don't really want to play that game right now as my head is not in that place.

been to the gym at lunchtime today and feel good. going to go everyday for a swim/workout.

day-by-day i guess. I'm not chasing her and trying to work on me but maybe things aren't quite as finished as i thought. confused. 

I don't know if other people do this but I did a sort of imaginary situation in my head today. There is a really really attractive girl about my age in my office building (not my company), she is gorgeous. I imagined I asked her to go out and that we started to get close I then thought about my wife and tried to imagine why I would want a slightly older, depressed, untrustworthy, unstable, problematic wife back?? love is strange


----------



## Wisp

Do not waver..

I have said in the past your son is key to your wife coming back. Continue encouraging your son to want to be with you. You need this in the event that you separate. 

I have noticed when OM is in London your wife comes to you. When he is back she weakens. No worry, just plug away.

If OM is back on the weekends and she wants to be with you and son, have the family day and make sure all including your wife enjoy it. There is nothing better than a unhappy, jealous OM who's affair woman is with her husband and family. The OM had his 18 months of chipping at your marriage it is time for you to return the favour, carry on working at Plan A , wear her down. 

Best wishes


----------



## i_feel_broken

Wisp said:


> I have noticed when OM is in London your wife comes to you. When he is back she weakens. No worry, just plug away.


Thanks wisp.

I have noticed this very much too. I wasn't sure how to play this. If I am there for her do you think I am just letting her have her cake and eat it or is it an opportunity to plan A. I guess it's both!?

Sometimes I feel she wants to come back then she will say something like - "I have bought him a new bike so he has one at both homes". If she is planning to come back she wouldn't bother with this. I'm trying to stop myself needing/expecting her to say she wants to come back as I come away dissapointed from most of our meetings


----------



## turnera

Sometimes when a wife separates after being married awhile, it's good for her to experience life on her own, to settle down and learn about herself, and this may last awhile, even a year or so; doing so may give her more impetus to come home, if she sees you still doing a great Plan A.


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Sometimes when a wife separates after being married awhile, it's good for her to experience life on her own, to settle down and learn about herself, and this may last awhile, even a year or so; doing so may give her more impetus to come home, if she sees you still doing a great Plan A.


I think your probably right turnera and I wish she was on her own as it may help her find her way. But she isn't she is with him and he will be guiding her down another path which probably isn't hers either. I am going to continue to Plan A but try and train myself just to do it with no expectations and just try and feel good by doing it. I am going to make an effort not to chase.

I had some interesting messages with my wife yesterday - she visited a special mental health clinic (I offered to go with her but OM was going). They change her medication from Fluoxetine to Duloxetine, this is a big step as she has been on prozac for over a decade. She rang me in the afternoon to tell me. I told her I was pleased for her and hoped it would help. I wish some of these changes were made during our relationship and I think she sensed that. Anyway we exchanged a few messages afterwards:

ME :
"that sounds like a positive/promising change. I will of course have my fingers crossed for you {WIFE}. After everything you have endured over the past how ever many years you deserve for something to start to change. I really hope you can start to find your way back to yourself and start to be happier. x"

WIFE :
"I hope things do get better and I can sort myself out but historic trend isn't looking promising! You understand me and have been there for me a lot more, especially recently, than I have given you credit for. I can see that now. Thank you. x"

ME :
"Don't need to thank me. I'm really sorry for the times I let you down. I will regret it for the rest of my life. I have learnt a lot and will not make the same mistakes in future relationships"

WIFE :
"{Son} won't have seen his mum for nearly 5 days by Saturday and will be settled in nicely at home with you, why would he want to come and see his mum at a different house!? He wouldn't, and he doesn't need me because you are his mum and dad! I am really worried and upset about how {SON} is with me so I am going to take Friday off and have him. I will pick him up and drop him off from you normal times. I Don't feel like his mum at all and I gave birth to him! Been a long emotional few days and I am struggling with it and think this may help. x"

ME :
"Thats fine and sounds like a good idea. You seem angry with me?"

WIFE:
"Not angry, just upset and missing him, it's unfortunate I had the funeral and timing was bad but Friday should help"

ME :
"Okay. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help"

I think the consequences are beginning to hit home maybe??


----------



## iamnottheonlyone

She is acknowledging her mistakes. This is real progress. You are showing your best side. Maintain that positive attitude. She knows you will take her hime when she is ready. I am certain AC will be ready with the right words as you move along. AC has a great talent for feeling out the right words to say. Be patient. The real world is in her face.


----------



## turnera

Remind me what's been done in terms of stopping the affair?


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Remind me what's been done in terms of stopping the affair?


I got the evidence
Confronted and eventually got the truth
I have exposed to everyone that needs to know.
I got close with her dad and got him onside
Lot's of plan A
Given her the option of coming back (under different conditions)


----------



## turnera

Did you tell HR and appropriate bosses?


----------



## Wisp

turnera: its the boss and owner of the company she is having the affair with


----------



## turnera

Oh, I knew he was her boss, I missed the part about him being the owner.

Have you ever talked to him about it?


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Oh, I knew he was her boss, I missed the part about him being the owner.
> 
> Have you ever talked to him about it?


Yes I have a few times and I was very civil and responsible when talking to him. I tried to explain why I felt what he had done was wrong and the effect it was having on everyone involved. I also tried to explain to him about my wife's illness and what effect it was having on her. I also told him about my wife sleeping with me a few times while he thought they were together and our marriage was over. Nothing worked - he just kept telling lies, had no remorse and told me everything was my fault. Waste of time really.

My wife just picked my son up for the day, he was crying as he didn't want to go. Wife was in tears as she was so upset and feels he doesn't want to be with her and feels disconnected. I want her to be involved 50/50 and want him to see his mum but can't help thinking this is helping a bit. is that wrong??


----------



## Wisp

> Wife was in tears as she was so upset and feels he doesn't want to be with her and feels disconnected


Keep winning your son over... She chose to have an affair she chose to leave her family, she can choose to come back.

This will take some hard work on your side as the OM will advise her what to do. 

*"I want her to be involved 50/50 and want him to see his mum but can't help thinking this is helping a bit. is that wrong?? *" --- You may want to rethink this - the original boundary was set and you shifted to help her. 

I trust you have made it clear to your wife your son is not to be with OM or his children..


----------



## i_feel_broken

Wisp said:


> Keep winning your son over... She chose to have an affair she chose to leave her family, she can choose to come back.
> 
> This will take some hard work on your side as the OM will advise her what to do.
> 
> *"I want her to be involved 50/50 and want him to see his mum but can't help thinking this is helping a bit. is that wrong?? *" --- You may want to rethink this - the original boundary was set and you shifted to help her.
> 
> I trust you have made it clear to your wife your son is not to be with OM or his children..


I did start to go down that route but I have made sure my priority is my son and it's well documented that a child is less effected if they see both parents equally and don't feel abandoned etc. If my wife truly does not want to come back to ME then I don't want my son to suffer the loss of one of his parents because of her actions. If she does decide to come back it will only work if she comes back for ME, I know that much now. If I start making those sorts of demands, which I probably am not entitled to do legally, then things are going to get nasty and the only person to lose out will be my son.

I don't want to use him as a chess piece in this, I would rather he be happier than try and force my wife's arm in coming home

does that make sense?


----------



## turnera

Yes.

Is OM married? Divorced? Have you told his parents/siblings?


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Because nice guys with self-esteem issues seek out sick girls so they can fix them - which is what makes the guy feel good. (and nice girls...)
> 
> Until you no longer get that ego stroking of her being 'grateful' to you.


Turnera, I'm not sure why but I have been thinking about this post for a while. At first I tended to agree but the more I think about it the more I think maybe you missed the mark with this one? I didn't seek out a sick girl she found me and we were months into our relationship before I even found out about her depression and I was falling for her by then.

I don't think it has anything to do with my self-esteem issues or that it made me feel good that I wanted to take care of her. It is just in my nature to want better for the people I love. If one of my family/friends was suffering I would be selfless enough to give my time/love/effort to make things better for them. I don't think it has anything to do with my ego. It's just how love for a person drives me to help them.

As for OM he is divorced and as my wife is living with him his ex-wife knows all about it. Think she has moved on and is engaged so she is not too bothered.


----------



## turnera

What I was describing is not something you would ever actually notice in someone. It's something that happens way back in the recesses of your mind, where you make decisions. You don't think about how you're making those decisions, you just make them. You don't actively think 'this makes me feel good'; it just _does _make you feel good. Kind of the difference between a Giver and a Taker. If you're usually willing to sacrifice what you want so that someone else can have what they want...

The seeking out...was more about who you stay with, when you start making those sacrifices. Like...she was supposed to take you out for your birthday, but her girlfriend called and invited her to a party, so she ditched you and you were hurt but instead just say 'that's ok' and think it must really be important to her, to be willing to hurt you like that, when in reality, she never gave you a moment's thought - she just wanted what she wanted. So you've 'trained' her to treat you poorly and to expect you to keep Giving. Something like that.

Or if you're down about losing a promotion, and you expect her to console you, but instead she tells you about the fight she had at work, so you give up expecting consolation, and turn instead to making her feel better. These things are incremental and they add up to a sense of entitlement in some people: perfect fodder for having an affair.

It's quite possible such a persona doesn't fit you. I was just fitting what looked like puzzle pieces to me.


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> What I was describing is not something you would ever actually notice in someone. It's something that happens way back in the recesses of your mind, where you make decisions. You don't think about how you're making those decisions, you just make them. You don't actively think 'this makes me feel good'; it just _does _make you feel good. Kind of the difference between a Giver and a Taker. If you're usually willing to sacrifice what you want so that someone else can have what they want...
> 
> The seeking out...was more about who you stay with, when you start making those sacrifices. Like...she was supposed to take you out for your birthday, but her girlfriend called and invited her to a party, so she ditched you and you were hurt but instead just say 'that's ok' and think it must really be important to her, to be willing to hurt you like that, when in reality, she never gave you a moment's thought - she just wanted what she wanted. So you've 'trained' her to treat you poorly and to expect you to keep Giving. Something like that.
> 
> Or if you're down about losing a promotion, and you expect her to console you, but instead she tells you about the fight she had at work, so you give up expecting consolation, and turn instead to making her feel better. These things are incremental and they add up to a sense of entitlement in some people: perfect fodder for having an affair.
> 
> It's quite possible such a persona doesn't fit you. I was just fitting what looked like puzzle pieces to me.


ok thanks for that - I understand what you were putting across a lot better now and I think it does fit my marriage fairly well to be honest. Not those exact scenarios but ones similar. It wasn't particularly easy living in the marriage day to day but that's not to say I didn't enjoy it on the whole. I guess I was the 'giver' in our relationship and she was the 'taker'. Identifying things like this helps me to realise I can find something better!


----------



## turnera

Definitely!


----------



## i_feel_broken

hi,

just thought i would post a quick update for anyone who may remember (over 6 months since i last updated!) and still be interested in my story. It has been almost a year now since i found out and this was the time-scale I had decided to put on me battling/struggling to keep my marriage together.

Over christmas we were separated and began to move on slightly, the pressure of "making it work" was lifted and ironically it was then things started to work. My wife was signed off work for three weeks in february with depression so was away from OM for a good while and we became closer. Things were apparently over between them now. Anyway during March things swung from good to bad but were never great, she was concentrating mostly on getting herself better. 

Bring on 8th April - She turns up at my work in tears. Says she needs everything and everyone to leave her alone and that she has quit her job. She tells me she has been trying to get OM back as recently as the night before. I basically just calmly told her she should go live with her dad and I was no longer interested in sorting things out. 

She has since asked for her job back and has not left home. I think basically they fell out (OM is her boss) as he refused to have her back. 

I moved out of home on Friday, I just couldn't be around her anymore. We are still being civil and doing best we can by my 3 year old. I know I should not have moved out (I have just an overnight bag with me really - i haven't MOVED out as such). I realise it doesn't look good in court etc but the only alternative was her moving over an hour away to her dads. This would have been terrible for me and my son as he would have been shipped around anywhere.

I did everything I could for the marriage, I tried everything but she would not leave the job with OM and was not prepared to fully work on us as she said she had to work on herself. I don't feel "in shock" or devastation like before just a sadness that we couldn't make it work. Not really sure where things will go from here but mentally I'm slipping into the unhealthy... I need to get out for my own sanity.

Chalk another failed marriage up here!


----------



## turnera

So sorry. Are you in therapy? Many times, a betrayed spouse benefits from about 3 months of anti-depressants, just to keep the chemicals from bottoming out in their head. It really does help.


----------



## AFEH

i_feel_broken, sorry to hear about your situation. Believe it or not the way you are feeling is quite “normal”. Emotions very strong and all over the place. Research words like grieving process, phases etc. I couldn’t believe the sheer intensity of the emotions I went through after my break-up.

You’ll need to take good care of yourself with healthy food and exercise and you will find some seriously good friends who can help you with what you’re going through. Personally I’d stay off the pills and use the time to discover more about yourself and to at least begin making new plans for your life.

Bob


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks.

I went through about a dozen sessions with a counsellor which at the time were quite helpful. It was good to blurt everything out to someone completely on the outside of the situation.

I feel okay now, I feel sorry for my wife as much as anything. I now see that her problems are her own to deal with not mine. I supported her and tried to "fix" her but now more than ever I accept I can not heal her. It is a journey she must take on her own.

I feel sad for my son too, we could have been a great family but although I will miss him so much when he is not with me I try and take comfort in the fact he will always be in my life. The time he is not with me I will use for ME.

I keep healthy, go to the gym four times a week, play golf, go out with friends etc. I have had some interest from some women which was nice but not something I am interested in right now.

Time to move on.... this is the first time I feel I am making the decisions and moving on properly. I also this is her loss even more than mine. I wish I had had the strength to "man up" earlier in the process. Anyone in my position 6-9 months ago should set stronger boundaries and be more prepared to walk away from the emotional abuse. I guess what made it harder for me was losing part of my sons life, but I think it would have ironically given me more chance to keep things together.

Live and learn...


----------



## MrK

It's unfortunate that this is what is considered a happy ending on this site. Good luck to you.


----------



## turnera

Are you teaching your son how to play golf? Great bonding time.


----------



## i_feel_broken

turnera said:


> Are you teaching your son how to play golf? Great bonding time.


I have introduced him to it but not really - he is only three. He has just learnt to ride his bike without stablisers though which is great as we can now go on bike rides together.

Feeling okay at the moment - got my golfing holiday in a couple of weeks too. My wife seems upset now that I am getting on with things although she understands thats what i need to do. She says OM is doing the same and she is left watching everyone else move on:

"I just don't seem to have accepted anything, I feel so much in la la land nothing is registering, i can't think or concentrate and emotionally I am all over the place......itys all just happening around me, but someone needed to take control."

"yeah i hope so but not sure what that will take. Everyone has now left me alone but now i see everyone getting on with plans they have and I just still seem to be stuck. I feel like doing something radical but reality and practicallity just get in the way."

She is following the same pattern - as soon as I pull away she starts to try and inject some hope. I am not buying into that game this time....

why do the DS' do this. It is so frustrating...


----------



## turnera

I just asked because there's another guy here whose wife is stepping out on him, and he's been teaching his son - who I think is 3 or 4 - to play golf, and they're having a great time of it.

Suggest to her that counseling will help her to 'do something radical' and help her at the same time.


----------



## land2634

I can agree with Turnera on the front of anti-depressants. Now, keep in mind this comes from my perspective, and I realize there are reasons NOT to get involved with them as well.

In my situation, depression already ran in my family. As I was previously someone who could become easily irritated, flustered, and upset, the pain of betrayal really sent me for a ride. When I came to this site, I got a lot of great advice, but it was very hard to put into perspective with so many things running through my head. I don't recall sharing what my breaking point was, but here it is: I was eating lunch with my mother at my parents' house. She knew I was stressed, etc. In any case, we had picked up fast food, and my cheese was completely halfway off of my chicken sandwich. I lost it... as weird as it sounds, I just completely lost my temper, and we all know it wasn't just because of a sandwich.

In any case, my doctor put me on Celexa. About 2 months ago, I weened myself off of it, with no negative effects. While the Celexa helped at the time, what it really helped me with was to relax me a little; just long enough to start putting some changes in my life to take control of myself once again. So, here I am now, no anti-depressants, and I've been able to, as some would say, take control of my own happiness.

I'm sorry things have taken this turn for you. It sounds to me as if your wife has, to this point, avoided facing the problem that is causing her to be so dependent on having someone there for her. She doesn't seem willing to face up to herself, and while sad, is something you can't help her with in the end. You can give suggestions, hints, and advice all day long, but until she's willing to face herself, she's at her own mercy.

I do hope you continue to grow no matter the outcome. Stay strong and make the best of your life.


----------



## i_feel_broken

land2634 said:


> I'm sorry things have taken this turn for you. It sounds to me as if your wife has, to this point, avoided facing the problem that is causing her to be so dependent on having someone there for her. She doesn't seem willing to face up to herself, and while sad, is something you can't help her with in the end. You can give suggestions, hints, and advice all day long, but until she's willing to face herself, she's at her own mercy.
> 
> I do hope you continue to grow no matter the outcome. Stay strong and make the best of your life.


She definitely has her own journey to take. She can't face herself. I see now that she has never really acted like a grown up when having arguments or resolving issues. She never is the one to apologize. She just can't do it.... because if she did it would be like admitting she is in the wrong.. admitting she has a problem that she needs to deal with.

I think if a WS really wanted to reform, build the marriage and recover they would do things like visiting the LS's parents and apologising and try and build bridges with everyone concerned. My wife would never do this and it's a shame because that's how conflicts are resolved. I don't think she was taught this in childhood... that to resolve a situation you have to be remorseful, empathise and put your self in hard positions and ask for forgiveness and apologise. She would rather bury her head and continue and hope things get better and guess what they don't.

I think if at any stage I would have thought about meds it would have been last year, I don't feel a reason to start now but i see where your going.


----------



## turnera

Sounds pretty spot on. Have you explained this to her? Maybe she just needs to hear it, to understand it.


----------



## i_feel_broken

Well.... it has been over 5 months since my last post but i thought i would post a very quick update. For most of you who don't know my story/nightmare feel free to read my thread for a clear cut case of a WS following 'the script'!. For those that remember me... hello again.

So here I am about 18 months after my d-day... still legally married but separated. My wife let to live with OM (again) in june and we have in that time adjusted to living apart fairly well. My son goes to the school near my home as wife decided not to go through with an appeal to get him into a school near them. My poor son is doing so well at adapting and has settled into school really well. We share his time 50/50 and I have learnt to love both my time with him and without despite missing him lots.

We sold the house this last week and I finally got myself my own home! my dad helped me finance it but it is a new build house just round the corner from our old house so my son has some consistency. I have also started dating a very attractive italian girl who lives round the corner, she is a few years younger than me and has a 1 year old son. Her partner left her the same time my wife left me.

For the first time in a couple of years the darkness started to lift and things seemed to be going well..... I started to feel like myself again for the first time in ages.

Then boom my wife told me yesterday she is going to leave OM and her job (with his company). She found about me seeing someone and has decided she wants me back and wants to rebuild our life...

AAArrghhhh... why do they do this. I don't want her back now, I have had enough and I can't go through any more... I don't even feel like that any more for her after what she has done. But now she is saying that she wants me back and it is best for my son and making me feel like I will be the one who has killed the marriage if i don't go for it!

I have told her to stay with OM but she says she can't... I'm terrified that she will either move away and try and take son or move in next door!


----------



## Whip Morgan

IFB,

I've been through your threads, read them long ago. Why haven't you filed for divorce yet? Or do you have to wait a length of time while seperated, where you live?

Yeah, you saw right through your wife as soon as she brought up that reconciliation nonsense. She is just upset that you're moving on, and you can't be her plan B anymore. It seemed like throughout your story she had some kind of sick pleasure in stringing you along. 

Heres the thing to remember ( and you already know) that she is the one that killed your marriage, not you. Any attempt to get you think any other way is a clear sign she is still in whatever fog (that may never left) she is in. She isn't good wife material.


----------



## ArabianKnight

I cant believe you even serioulsy thinking about it. you should not even talk or email her.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your wife has said much of the same many times and yet she continued the affair. Tell her action speaks louder than words , do not imply or indicate the marriage will be restored , be non committal . I would start keeping your son with you more often, find reasons to have him with you and in parallel have your lawyer develop a plan that suits you.
I think your wife is once again playing little games , be firm simply say she has said this before and has never followed through.

Carry on with the Italian , though I myself would suggest you divorce first before you start any serious relationship with her.

Hang in there , you went through your wife's lies and deceit far to often to be fooled by this recent move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Broken : avoid discussions with her other than if it is about your son, if she brings it up again shrug your shoulders remind her - seeing is believing . I doubt your wife will carry through what she says . Stick to the seeing is believing attitude .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Divorce her. Then, if you DO want to date her again, you can make sure you have her sign a prenup before you take her back.

And if you don't have a legal form stating your right to your son (so she can't move and take him with her), then you're a fool.


----------



## MrQuatto

Just remember that since you're still married, she may have the right to half the house you have now. 

I would not have gone that far without having divorced 1st. This could get real complicated.

Q~


----------



## morituri

MrQuatto said:


> Just remember that since you're still married, she may have the right to half the house you have now.
> 
> I would not have gone that far without having divorced 1st. This could get real complicated.
> 
> Q~


:iagree:

You might want to read *Is Property that I Acquired During a Separation Considered “Marital Property”?*

Oh and stay the course in telling your wife NO to reconciliation.


----------



## bryanp

For God's sakes just divorce her and move on with your life and stop the drama.


----------



## tacoma

Divorce her....


----------



## i_feel_broken

thanks... I have no intention of reconciliation. I have moved on and I am not interested in working things out with my wife. I wish I could for my son as he is upset by it all but I just can't. 

She is in a terrible mess now, she is going to lose her job, house etc. She has very little friends and is in a serious state of depression. This unfortunately means that she will probably need csa money from me which, after my house move, is going to be hard to afford. She is talking about moving back to my area and claiming benefits, living of savings etc. She says she will probably need half the furniture etc now and wants to have more of the time with my son.

This sucks...she left me! she moved in with someone with more money and gave me everything. I wish I had rushed the divorce through... a mistake. 

Can't really see how this is ever going to get resolved... I have told her I am not interested but she is going a bit mental. When is she going to stop making my life so hard!!!


----------



## Eli-Zor

Has she left the OM and resigned from her job, if not she still has a home and a salary. Her depression is her problem , your only issue is how to get your son away from her and for you to be the primary carer. Try to go dark on her and if you do talk only discuss your son , she will try push many buttons to get you to react to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Get those papers going now. She abandoned you, do use that before she cmes back wanting stuff. Get that divorce under way. Why are you waiting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

See an attorney now!


----------



## turnera

yes!


----------

