# Lies, ONS, What do I do now?



## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

First I want to say I am new here and am grateful for having found this website. It’s nice to know that I am not alone in what I’m currently going through. I would like to hear other’s opinions on my situation. 

I have been married for three years and our daughter is a year and a half old. 

Seven months ago I discovered upon my husband’s return from a 10 day “business trip” with best friends that it was actually a leisure trip to a completely different destination than the one claimed and it involved a ONS with a prostitute. 

He did not confess of his own accord. I had to confront him with photocopied evidence the day after his return in the presence of his father to get the truth.

I also required that he be tested for STDs and he presented me with the printed record.

I need some advice because I cannot for the life of me see how I can get over:

1. Being lied to before, during and after the trip because he thought I wouldn’t “let him” take a leisure trip with his buddies to that exotic destination. (I can’t imagine being halfway around the world and lying to my spouse about where I am. I feel this is so immature it makes me )
2. His committing adultery and being with a prostitute, some girl who could have been a victim of sex trafficking for all he knew. (Both things he said he would never do. )

My first thought was to put him out, but I didn’t because I needed to understand why it happened. I also have our daughter to consider and felt it was my responsibility to give it a chance. I was terribly hurt and thought it would only be worse if he wasn’t around to explain things, to show me he wanted to save our marriage etc. He said he wasn’t unhappy with us and that it was situational and it happened once after which he felt terrible.

We are not in counseling though we probably should be. Our options are very limited where we live so we are looking into online/ telephone options. I wish I had found this forum sooner because I feel like we’ve had seven months of floundering…I need some advice on what should I/he be doing at this point??

Thanks in advance!


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

Well I think you HAVE to start MC if you want to stay with him.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. A PA would be a deal breaker for me. I can barely cope with a short term EA. Are you sure you can forgive him and move on? 

It sounds like his trip and ONS were premeditated. They didn't just happen ya know. Think long and hard about that.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks, Crazytown. In my heart I do feel that a PA is a deal breaker because I don't see how to restore that which has been lost. I've lost trust in him, and his ability to make choices that don't demolish my heart and our family. I also don't see how I can have healthy and fully engaged physical intimacy with my husband after he chose to be physical with someone else. 
I too thought the ONS was premeditated. Which leads me to wonder after 5 years of friendship, then dating and then 3 years of marriage -- who is this person I married?? How do you make a choice like that to just throw the trust away? To throw everything away? I also wondered if it wasn't the first time which could be the reason he may have felt confident enough to go on the trip and do all that lying in the first place.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

exotic destination halfway around the world = thailand?

You have been married 3 years and he's already not satisfied with it. Does not look good for him. He is not respecting marriage as much as he should. He needs to tell you why, to start.

What to do about it? Is he showing any remorse (besides getting caught)? Is he faking it? What is he doing to show he's changed?

Since he can do this, make me wonder if he is also paying for sex when home?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A physical affair based on a mutual attraction, or a ONS due to a stupid, drunken event? I can understand those.

But: "Hey, let's me and my buddies make a deliberate, pre-meditated plot to deceive our faithful, trusting wives so we can go have sex with potentially under age slave girls in Thailand and see if we can get us some STDs to take back home as a memento of our visit!"? :wtf:

I am sorry, I really cannot understand that behaviour. At all.

You could consider speaking to the spouses or girl friends of the other men involved.


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## FishKing (Jun 28, 2012)

Cheating is unforgiveable!!!if he slept with *****,time for a divorce. Do yourself a favor,dont try and work it out. He will tell you everything you wanna hear to work out the marriage, and eventually do it again!!! if he didnt cheat, and just lied about where he went,I feel you can work on that. Find out why he lied, and get to the root of the problem. Ill admit i lied to my wife a few times,never cheated,just lied about my debt!! she was very mad, and eventually forgave me. Cheating is a deal breaker in my oppinion. Move on now while the marriage is still new, and not let it go and be in the marriage say 10-15 yrs. Will make it harder to divorce in my oppinion. It will be hard to move on,but in the end you should feel like you did the right thing. I have read the statistics, most people who cheat and are forgiven or dont get caught Will do it again...wish you best of luck


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Your husband's friends are toxic to your marriage. If you want to stay with him, you should insist that he get rid of these friends. If they are not supporters of your marriage, he shouldn't have them as friends.

Now, on to the main culprit - your husband. My first impression is that he is one of those guys that thinks it's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught. If the opportunity arises, and he thinks he can do it without getting caught, he will - that's my first impression of him. This is not uncommon for the types of guys who frequent prostitutes. If my first impression is correct, I don't think that kind of thinking is something you can change overnight, if ever. The types of guys who frequent prositutes are often times morally bankrupt.

To pull off a lie as big as this one, lying about the whole nature of the trip and where he was going and why, shows that he really doesn't care too much about losing you and/or that he's pretty sure you will take him back if he gets caught. Let's face it, with a lie this big, and so many other friends involved, there was a pretty good chance that something would go wrong and he would get caught.

*"I also wondered if it wasn't the first time which could be the reason he may have felt confident enough to go on the trip and do all that lying in the first place." *This would be my thoughts exactly. This type of thinking and behavior would not start off with such a huge lie. He likely has been up to stuff behind your back all along.

*"He said he wasn’t unhappy with us and that it was situational and it happened once after which he felt terrible." *This doesn't make a bit of sense to me. He planned a whole vacation without you and lied about it before, during, and after. A drunken one-night stand is situational. This is not a one-time situational thing, this is a premeditated lie from start to finish.

*he thought I wouldn’t “let him” take a leisure trip with his buddies to that exotic destination.* So, in his opinion, it is ok to lie to you to get what he wants if he thinks you will disapprove of it or give him a hard time about it. For example, he wants to see a prostitute tonight, but he knows you will disapprove and give him a hard time, so he will lie to you and tell you he is going to the driving range to hit some golf balls.

I can see him commiserating with his friends - "guys, I've got to cool it for awhile, the wife is on my back and still pretty mad about that last trip and the prostitute - maybe by the end of the summer we can get together again and take a little trip, a shorter one this time."


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Your husband's friends are toxic to your marriage. If you want to stay with him, you should insist that he get rid of these friends. If they are not supporters of your marriage, he shouldn't have them as friends.
> 
> Now, on to the main culprit - your husband. My first impression is that he is one of those guys that thinks it's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught. If the opportunity arises, and he thinks he can do it without getting caught, he will - that's my first impression of him. This is not uncommon for the types of guys who frequent prostitutes. If my first impression is correct, I don't think that kind of thinking is something you can change overnight, if ever. The types of guys who frequent prositutes are often times morally bankrupt.
> 
> ...


I liked this post so much I had to repost it, so many great points the OP needs to read.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Thank you for all your responses so far. This feedback lets me know that at least the similar thoughts I’ve been having about the whole situation are rational. 

Aug, he is remorseful but not to a degree that gives me confidence he understands the full damage to our relationship. I think this is why in seven months I’m not sure what progress we’ve made.

To show that he’s changed, he does not spend time with those friends anymore, he lets me know where he is or where he is going to be and pretty much goes to work and spends lots of quality time with me and our daughter. I didn’t have to ask for these things. He just did them. 

Will Kane, I think the friends have/ had a bigger influence than he is willing to admit. About a week or so after discovery, he wanted my blessing to go into a real business with the same friends. I gave him a really good piece of my mind (that’s putting it nicely) and it seems he started to understand how his relationship with me AND THEM is changed irrevocably.

Matt Matt, I did have contact with the two other wives and that is part of how the whole thing came unraveled and we discovered what they were up to. We figured out where they went (It wasn’t Thailand, not that it makes a difference really). I was able to confirm that this was my husband’s first time in taking part in one of their husband’s “business trips.” I was also given insight into the fact that there was a history of cheating and some physical abuse in the other marriages. Both wives have known their husbands and my husband since their college days and they expressed utter shock that my husband was unfaithful. He seemed to be the first to admit it while the other two kept denying (and still denying) that anything happened on the trip and I think it’s what finally made the other wives truly see what was going on.

Will Kane, after contact with the other wives, it was clear to me that their husbands ARE those guys that “think it’s ok to cheat as long as you don’t get caught.” The rest of what you said is also spot on about his friends. I’m still trying to determine if my husband really thinks the same way they do.

This is one of the reasons for our lack of progress. I guess I don’t really understand why it happened. It did seem out of character for my husband – in the past he has shown disdain for cheating witnessed in other relationships, he doesn’t drink and as a married man, he doesn’t take trips with the guys. He claims he just really wanted to spend that time with his friends and have some of the fun they used to have, I suppose something he hadn’t done in ages. When I ask him how the ONS happened, he claims weakness in resisting the temptation to fulfill the sexual desires he had in that moment. It’s hard for me to get my head around that. If that’s the reason, then what would keep it from happening again?

_*“To pull off a lie as big as this one, lying about the whole nature of the trip and where he was going and why, shows that he really doesn't care too much about losing you and/or that he's pretty sure you will take him back if he gets caught. Let's face it, with a lie this big, and so many other friends involved, there was a pretty good chance that something would go wrong and he would get caught.”*_

Will Kane, you make excellent points. Again, I think perhaps his friend’s experience in deceiving their wives and getting away with it must have influenced him. They have been dealing with their husband’s multiple PA’s for years (with all the accompanying drama) and continue having children with these men. Even after the most recent revelations and confirmations (I think this was the first time they had solid proof of what was going on), there is no serious talk of divorce. These women are suffering but at the heart of it I think they and their husbands all believe you fall in love once (they all married early), you get married and you just stay married. That’s the way their parents did it and that’s the way they will do it. In my opinion, it is admirable but only if there is fidelity.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

So... I'm struggling to find answers to these questions: 

Is my husband really like his friends? 

Does my husband truly understand the damage that has been done? 

Is it even possible for me to regain the level of trust in him that I need to have a GREAT marriage?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Is this one of many red flags? If it is then he may very well be like his friend. Even if there were no red flags before this i would recommend a polygraph for the 1st question.

Your husband will understand once he faces the consequences by terminating the frienship with these toxic friend forever, gets him self into IC and learns how to affair proof his marriage, and losses all privacy and is totally tranparent, and has full accountablity for his wereabouts...these are just a few consequence that he should except willingly to keep his marriage.

As far as the last question, yes you can gain a level of trust if your H has the willingness to have a huge degree of submission and do the heavy lifting to fix him self and then his marriage. Sure it will take time but as you continue to investigate his true commiment and validate his actions then in a year you may find he is a changed man...


Its been 2-1/2 years since d-day and my fWW ( former wayward wife) has made the lifstyle changes that I have personal confirmed by investigating her and witnessing her actions to act like I am alway next to her even when I'm not....affair proofing the marriage if you will. These days I rarely snoop even though she doesn't mind I just gained that level of trust back thru the years.

It a tough road to R, but so is divorce.

What your WH needs to see right now is a confident women that is willing to let him go if his behavior continues. Never let him know how scared you are. His action cuased him to lose the women you once were, now he will only see a women who stopped taking his sh!t....again another consequence he must face in solidifing that he has changed everything.

BTW, my R is going strong and I am no longer a man that will tolorate my fWW crap and is willing to protect my marriage. She can call it controlling all she want but if she want the kind of protection I offer the marriage then she is welcome to stay...if not she knows were the door is. It seems to work.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It has been my experience that often people "turn into" their parents. If these other men your husband hangs with, and their wives, were brought up in homes where it was routine for the husbands to cheat and for the wives to have a "boys will be boys" attitude, than I can see these friends and their wives thinking that is what a "normal" marriage is like, and why they don't seem very troubled by the husbands' cheating.

What type of relationship did your husband's parents have?

Did your husband look up to, maybe even idolize, these friends for some reason? Was your husband more of a leader or a follower among this group of friends? Was your husband that easily influenced by these friends, that he would do things that he knew would hurt you and went against his values just so he could retain their acceptance of him?


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

The Guy, no red flags before. Looking back, we really took our time getting to know each other, I admired his values and had complete trust in him.


*“Your husband will understand once he faces the consequences by terminating the frienship with these toxic friend forever, gets him self into IC and learns how to affair proof his marriage, and losses all privacy and is totally tranparent, and has full accountablity for his wereabouts...these are just a few consequence that he should except willingly to keep his marriage.”*


You just opened my eyes to the fact that it is now HIS responsibility to affair proof HIS marriage. This is profound to me as I guess I bought into the notion that I somehow bore the responsibility for this then and now.

He does seem willing to do all these things although it has been long winding road. At first he did not seem willing to change much about his relationship with these guys. But over time he really has distanced himself – he does not socialize with them at all anymore and says he certainly will never travel with them again. He has not completely cut them out of his life because he says these two guys are like his brothers, they have been through a lot together and have many other mutual friends. He did say however that if it came down to it, if that is what it would take to save our marriage, he would completely terminate the friendships.

I hadn’t considered IC for him alone and now that you mention it, I think he and I would benefit greatly from that. Once his eyes have been opened to something, he has always been one to get to fixing it. 

*“It a tough road to R, but so is divorce.”*

I agree with you there. I also think divorcing before trying to R in certain situations can be detrimental to one’s healing in general. Even if the end result is divorce, I wouldn’t want to go into the next relationship as a damaged, insecure, paranoid person….and I just realized I don’t want to continue in this marriage as a damaged person either. I want healing either way.

Thanks for sharing your view of things as a person in R. It gives me hope that we can inch forward from where we are now.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Will Kane, I don’t believe my husband’s parents had that kind of relationship. When my husband’s father learned of my husband’s PA, he seemed disappointed and told me that is something he does not condone in a marriage and not in his own marriage. He said he was never unfaithful to my husband’s mother.

These are really good questions you raise about his view of his friends. Definitely something to be explored further because I’m not sure of the answers just yet. I don’t think my husband views himself as a follower, but he and I both may just be coming to realize how much of an influence the friends had on him.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Men that do this kind of stuff are very hard to "correct". I know several guys who do this and after being found out they still don't stop. They have zero respect for the women they are with.

Plus this guy doesn't, apparently, show regret. This also fits the profile.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Men that do this kind of stuff are very hard to "correct". I know several guys who do this and after being found out they still don't stop. They have zero respect for the women they are with.
> 
> Plus this guy doesn't, apparently, show regret. This also fits the profile.




What is also very frightening is that he went on this trip to another "exotic" destination under the pretext that it was business.
He LIED BIG TIME to you.
Not only that, his friends may have also been co conspirators. If you know their spouses,then maybe you should also contact them.
Something is very wrong with his perception of reality.
He has treated you with gross disrespect,and has trespassed boundaries with impunity.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My husband and I are reconciling after he had sex with a prostitute. Under very different circumstances though. My story is linked in my sig if you care to read it.

My advice is to kick him out. Zero tolerance for this kind of stuff. If he's worth spending any more of your life with, he'll come crawling back.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks Hope1964, I did read your story and thanks so much for pointing me to it. 

I think zero tolerance is a good policy and when I made the discovery, my first thought was to kick him out. But I couldn’t go through with it because I supposed I realized I wasn’t 100% done and I felt I needed to watch him – to see how remorseful he was, to know that he wasn’t spending more time with the toxic friends, to know or at least feel reasonably sure that he wasn’t having another PA. 

And quite honestly, since I have no family where we live, I felt insecure about not having the day to day help with our tiny daughter and our household responsibilities. 

I will say though, since this happened, I’ve been building up a bit more of a support network for me and my daughter if I do have to ask him to leave.

Let me ask you one thing, and I hope this question is not too personal, but did you ever feel truly sexy in the eyes of your husband again? I just keep thinking about the fact that my husband "chose" someone else and it kills ALL desire for intimacy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I do now, but we're over two years past D day. The hysterical bonding thing helped in that regard  And MC. MC is invaluable as far as I'm concerned. We were in MC when he admitted to the hooker incident.

As for watching him - well, I get that, but quite honestly, you could watch him like a hawk 24/7, but unless he is truly committed to reconciliation 10000% it won't make any difference. You can't MAKE him be faithful. Well you can, but what good does that do?? He has to WANT to be faithful. The watching I do now is more to reinforce in MY mind that he's worthy of my trust. Not so much to check up on what he's up to. Because he could have a secret phone and emails now just as easily as then and could hide them just as well.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

No hysterical bonding here so far. When in the process did you have yours? Is that something that usually happens early on?


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Costa200 and Caribbeanman, thanks for your input. I did have contact with the spouses. I mention it earlier in the thread… I certainly wouldn’t want to stay with a repeat offender and still trying to determine if I will stay with a one-time offender. In your opinion, what does a truly remorseful spouse do, how do they behave?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

truthberry40 said:


> No hysterical bonding here so far. When in the process did you have yours? Is that something that usually happens early on?


We had hysterical bonding from the day I found out about my WW's long term PA to about 6 weeks after. It stopped dead, however, and now sex is not very good - it is much worse than it was before.

From what I read it doesn't really signify anything - as in it does not seem to indicate whether there is more or less chance of R.

My guess it is a whole host of physical, mental and hormonal things that need to coincide and it's a lottery whether they do or not.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks Chris989, that's very interesting and good to know. 

*"It stopped dead, however, and now sex is not very good - it is much worse than it was before."*

Do you feel you can regain what you once had with your wife?

Or even have something much better?

I'm just starting to feel that forgiveness is one thing...but that renewed physical intimacy (to the point where it's great, not just good) is quite another.

I can see how the pain of a PA and the frequency of which you think about it can decrease over time, but I just don't see right now how I can feel confident about my husband's desire for me after he chose to desire someone else.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

truthberry40 said:


> Thanks Chris989, that's very interesting and good to know.
> 
> *"It stopped dead, however, and now sex is not very good - it is much worse than it was before."*
> 
> ...


I don't know. For me, I am still trying to sort out what happened. I *think* I know every thing I need to but even this morning found something out she told me hadn't been the case.

Sometimes it's only small details, but it knocks me right back.

The bonding stopped when I caught her in yet another lie - quite a big one but not the biggest and certainly not the last.

I feel like a breakthrough might be around the corner somehow but I am getting the feeling she is beginning to hold back again.

We can never regain what we had. By far the most important thing to me was always the time we had together and the trust.

That has, of course, gone.

I can see us having a better physical relationship - but ultimately that is only because she could not have done more for the OM in the framework of their relationship, whereas she always held back with me and - for now - she has decided not to hold back for me and because we have a better understanding of each other we have no fears about sharing - whereas with the OM she could not ask certain things of him and he refused to do others (she didn't ever refuse him).

One thing that has kept me going is a man I really respected telling me some years ago that he had had an affair early on in his marriage.

By now this guy was about 67 and this must have happened maybe when he was around 30.

He told me it was touch and go for a while, but his wife had him back - although, he said, she didn't let him forget it (not in a nasty way).

It was all worthwhile, he said, when they stood there looking at their grandchildren playing. He told me how he felt that they had built something bigger than the 2 of them. They had built a family.

He told me he was grateful that his wife had had him back - she had not forgiven him, but decided to build something else despite what he'd done.

Little was I to know at the time that I would be thinking of his words in this situation.

He told me this because at the time my wife was treating me badly and I was thinking of leaving, but he told me not to.

It's funny really; I should have left her then as I would not have had this pain, but his advice is yet again proving very useful.

I intend to look him up again as I haven't seen him for about 6 years.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The only physical encounter my husband had was with the prostitute. She meant nothing to him - he didn't desire HER, he was getting back at me for not believing he hadn't done anything physical up to that point.

Our physical relationship is better today than it was 3-4 years ago because we're more connected on EVERY level now. We are just more into it with each other because of that.

As far as what a truly remorseful spouse does, there is a whole host of things. Mine comforts me when I trigger, he can sometimes anticipate things that will trigger me. He freely offers password changes when they happen, I don't have to ask. He's an open book. He calls and texts frequently when he's not with me. He also now tells me when things bother him, or if I pick up that something is bothering him and ask, he talks about it. He jokes around and smiles more. He's silly with me - he was VERY rarely silly before, ever. He tells me things, like what he dreamed about as we lay in bed before we start our day every day. He used to get up and leave and not even talk to me, while I pretended to sleep. He tells me I am sexy and beautiful LOTS more. He asks questions and pays attention to my answers. I could go on.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> The bonding stopped when I caught her in yet another lie - quite a big one but not the biggest and certainly not the last.


This is one of my fears. How does anyone get their partner to come completely clean about everything?

I’ve asked him so many questions over the last several months – repeatedly – in an effort to get him to come clean about anything and everything. His story never changes and I haven’t had any additional D-Days so far. 

Part of me believes there isn’t more to tell and part of me does not! I wonder how long I go on that way, just waiting for the other shoe to drop…



Chris989 said:


> It was all worthwhile, he said, when they stood there looking at their grandchildren playing. He told me how he felt that they had built something bigger than the 2 of them. They had built a family.


I think this has to be one of the reasons I am open to R right now. Our daughter is the light of our life and we have such great times together as a family. I would also like to have more children. 

Thinking about the big picture makes me wonder if I stick around and keep going, could there be light at the end of the tunnel?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

truthberry40 said:


> This is one of my fears. How does anyone get their partner to come completely clean about everything?
> 
> *I’ve asked him so many questions over the last several months – repeatedly – in an effort to get him to come clean about anything and everything. His story never changes* and I haven’t had any additional D-Days so far.
> 
> ...


From what I've read, there is usually more than what they're telling you.
Basically they tell you enough to appease you, but never all of the truth.
I would be surprised if any BS ever got the whole truth from their WS.
Even if you never know the full truth, is your H showing remorse, is he making an effort to save your marriage?
Besides your daughter, what about your marriage is worth saving in your eyes?
To truly R, there has to be effort on both sides, more so on the WS, but that doesn't relieve the BS from working on the marriage too.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> The only physical encounter my husband had was with the prostitute. She meant nothing to him - he didn't desire HER...


This is how my husband described his encounter with the prostitute. I don't know if this makes me feel any better about it. Where was the self control? And why does it seem that a person could be "moral", "religious", "upstanding" in EVERY other facet of their lives...and still cheat???? Is it something in our societal conditioning that somehow makes it an "acceptable sin"? (Vent)



Hope1964 said:


> Our physical relationship is better today than it was 3-4 years ago because we're more connected on EVERY level now. We are just more into it with each other because of that.


In my better moments, I feel hopeful for this. Thanks for the list of what a remorseful spouse might do. He does similar things but I still feel like something's missing. I guess, having not kicked him out he hasn't felt enough pain to inspire him to go all out...the thing is, if I get to the point where I want him to leave, I'm afraid it won't matter what he does, it will just be over for me.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Phenix70 said:


> From what I've read, there is usually more than what they're telling you.
> Basically they tell you enough to appease you, but never all of the truth.
> I would be surprised if any BS ever got the whole truth from their WS.


Is there any way a spouse be encouraged to tell the whole truth even if they think it's too hurtful? 



Phenix70 said:


> Even if you never know the full truth, is your H showing remorse, is he making an effort to save your marriage?


He is showing remorse and he's making an effort. Is he showing me enough to make me certain I want to do the hard work of R, I'm not so sure.

As I've mentioned to him, I think it's just something you can feel - if your spouse is truly sorry and understands the damage. I can't say I feel it 100 percent and it doesn't help that he essentially knew I was uncovering the truth about the trip and possible PA (he knew I had talked to the other wives, he watched me go into his bag and retrieve evidence) and did not once step up to the plate to make sure I heard it from him first. 



Phenix70 said:


> Besides your daughter, what about your marriage is worth saving in your eyes?


This is a really good question and I should probably think hard about the answer. If I imagine us recovering the connection we had, especially pre-marriage, it would be amazing and worth saving. But we haven't had that for a while. Not that what we had post marriage was bad, but I always felt it could be a whole lot better.


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