# Age of the "Change Over"?



## MAJDEATH

Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MAJDEATH said:


> Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


At what age do women die?


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## happyhusband0005

MAJDEATH said:


> Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


I gonna say 178.


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## Mr. Nail

I was pretty sure it was around 18. Certainly not more than 25. I mean it may actually be a change in the man. But at around that age I could take 'em or leave 'em, if they didn't have something MORE than looks / youth in the package


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## I shouldnthave

I guess I had no idea things like this were discussed at church couple's groups.

Let me restate your question, and see if I am understanding correctly. 

Are you asking, at what age do young women lose the sex appeal level needed to manipulate men? 

Is THAT what you are asking? Is this the "power" that you speak of?

If so, I would argue that there is not one size fits all answer. Me? I didn't discover my sexual prowess until well into my 30s. Some girls discover it in their teens. 

Some men are attracted to high school girls in cheer leader uniforms. Some men are attracted to mature women, and the experience and sexual maturity that she has. 

Keep in mind any ability "get men to succumb" is granted by the men - its not like women are forcing this on men, they are the willing participant.


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## Fozzy

I shouldnthave said:


> I guess I had no idea things like this were discussed at church couple's groups.
> 
> Let me restate your question, and see if I am understanding correctly.
> 
> Are you asking, at what age do young women lose the sex appeal level needed to manipulate men?
> 
> Is THAT what you are asking? Is this the "power" that you speak of?
> 
> If so, I would argue that there is not one size fits all answer. Me? I didn't discover my sexual prowess until well into my 30s. Some girls discover it in their teens.
> 
> Some men are attracted to high school girls in cheer leader uniforms. Some men are attracted to mature women, and the experience and sexual maturity that she has.
> 
> Keep in mind any ability "get men to succumb" is granted by the men - its not like women are forcing this on men, they are the willing participant.


Perhaps a better way to phrase the question might be "At what age do men start respecting themselves enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated?"


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## personofinterest

It depends on the man. Some men are not able to see any woman who is older than just out of adolescence as attractive. Some women can appreciate more mature beauty. Just like some women only drool over the latest "I just got hair on my chest" superstar, while others can see the appeal of Pierce Brosnan or Sean Connery.

As far as the manipulation part goes....if I were in a church group where the topic of conversation was basically "when do women stop being pretty enough to corrupt us with their evil wiles," I'd start looking for Bill Gothard and run.


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## happyhusband0005

Fozzy said:


> Perhaps a better way to phrase the question might be "At what age do men start respecting themselves enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated?"


My wife "manipulated" me last night and I think she made me pull a hammy. :grin2:


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## brooklynAnn

Never. Our main purpose is to keep stupid men under our thrall forever. And our powers never ever goes away.


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## personofinterest

brooklynAnn said:


> Never. Our main purpose is to keep stupid men under our thrall forever. And our powers never ever goes away.


Shhhh! You shall be banished for revealing our evil plans! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Married but Happy

I don't think there is an "age." There may be a change due to lessened attractiveness, but that could be countered by habits already in place that make their men listen. Or, another younger, more attractive woman is added to the mix and asserts control. 

Of course, self-assured men won't succumb at any age or level of attractiveness, because they don't feel they need to. They can always find another, more compatible woman who isn't manipulative.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I shouldnthave said:


> I guess I had no idea things like this were discussed at church couple's groups.


Indeed. 




I shouldnthave said:


> Keep in mind any ability "get men to succumb" is granted by the men - its not like women are forcing this on men, they are the willing participant.


Yep.


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## GusPolinski

majdeath said:


> topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


Daaaaamn!!!

:lol: :rofl:


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## SpinyNorman

brooklynAnn said:


> Never. Our main purpose is to keep stupid men under our thrall forever. *And our powers never ever goes away.*


Maybe, but I don't see a lot of 70 y.o. hookers.

In the old "Roseanne" show her daughter is trying to get out of washing the dishes.
Darlene: But I'll get dishpan hands!
Roseanne: Well, you're thirteen, you didn't think your looks were gonna last forever.

Kind of a silly question.


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## SunCMars

brooklynAnn said:


> Never. Our main purpose is to keep stupid men under our thrall forever. And our powers never ever goes away.


Yep, noticed this.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Anybody remember this cult classic?


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## Andy1001

What some people consider being manipulative others consider good manners.
Some men will hold a door for a pretty girl,some men will hold a door for anyone coming behind them.Its the same when someone is standing on the sidewalk waiting to cross the road,pretty girls get priority.
These men seem to have a subconscious belief that this increases their chances of scoring with the hot girl.
Another way of looking at this is when you have a mom shopping with her daughter and she realizes that whereas men used to pay her attention now it’s her daughter that gets the vip treatment.Definite ego blow.


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## MAJDEATH

Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
> Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


As far as I can tell, most women continue to put a lot of effort into their physical appearance:
1. Regardless of whether or not "they've already got the man"
2. Regardless of age

One thing you need to consider is that the effort women put into their appearance isn't always, or in some cases just often, for the sake of attracting men. Most women feel better looking their best even when they're not looking to attract or keep. 

Women (generally) are really into shoes. How many guys (other than those with that particular fetish) ever even notice shoes? 

My wife takes care to look her best when she goes out for tea with the girls at a place no man would ever be, or to her all female book club. 

In short, the male ego is incorrect in assuming everything women do to look a certain way is for us. Once you realize that, your question will change or even disappear altogether.


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## I shouldnthave

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
> Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


Ahhh, and the plot twists. 

Hair, honestly?! Because most women's hair gets thinner as she ages. Very few "older" women have hair that is thick enough to look luxurious while long. Or if there are a lot of kids under foot etc, she may not have time for all of the care long hair takes. 

I am just about 40 - I keep my hair just past my shoulders - when I was young, I used to keep it very long. Now, I still get tons of compliments on my hair, but the super long days are over. I don't have quite the thickness any more, and I feel my hair is a bit more contemporary and "adult" when its not super long. 

I never kept my hair long to attract a husband, nor did I cut it shorter because I do not care about my appearance.

I would say most women keep themselves primped for themselves, because that is what makes them happy. And most that do not, do not place that high of importance on it. 

My grandma is 96. She still does her hair, and puts on make up every day. Does she do it for male attention? Certainly not. She does it for herself. 

What other examples do you have? What was the tone of this church group discussion?

Conversely, why do so many married men get beer guts? Is it because he is no longer trying to find a wife, or at an age where his physical appearance just doesn't matter any more?


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## Livvie

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
> Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


Hair length: when you are a teenager/ early 20s you have more time and energy to deal with taking care of long hair.

As you get older you have more responsibility. More intense job. Finances to worry about. Taking care of a house or apartment yourself. If partnered, you might want to spend more time doing things with your partner rather than dealing with the long hair, which over time just becomes a pain in the ass!!

Same with high heels as an everyday thing, for some women. You just get tired of your feet hurting and reach a point you opt for more comfortable shoes!

Hair, heels, extensive makeup. Some people reach a point they are just tired of the maintenance and want to be more comfortable and spend time on other things.

In high school my hair was very long. I wore lots of make up and big heels ( hey it was the late 80s). 

I still take care of my appearance but very long hair, daily big heels and tons of makeup are a thing of the past.


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## Bluesclues

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
> Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


I love my long hair and I will keep as long as it loves me back. I have been blessed with nice hair so I believe I get a longer go at it than many. Older women usually cut their hair because as we get older it gets brittle and breaks. Coloring and styling add to the damage. It is much easier to have healthy hair that is short. Yes there are women that want short hair at any age range, but many women have a hard time saying goodbye and having to go short. It isn’t that they feel it isn’t worth looking nice for their man. It is not something I look forward to.


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## MAJDEATH

The point of the discussion was the encouragement to continue the things that you did in your youth with your spouse. I used to take my W out dancing (which she really enjoys), but I rarely do now. I need to improve my game (and work on the beer gut).


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## I shouldnthave

MAJDEATH said:


> The point of the discussion was the encouragement to continue the things that you did in your youth with your spouse.


Okay then - this seems very different than your first question. 

Was the notion that women do not upkeep their looks because they landed their men? 

I have found for me.... its reciprocal. The more my husband tells me I am beautiful, that he loves me in skirts, that he likes it when we dress and go out... the more I am apt to primp and dress up.

The more complacent he becomes, the more complacent I tend to get. 

I do think its important for a couple to "keep dating". My relationship, like many others has had low points, and complacency, lack of dating etc were definitely hallmarks of that period. 

I have heard "be the man she would cheat with" - ie, be desirable, free flowing with attention and compliments, make her feel sexy. 

And for her... same - Be that woman he would cheat with. A bit of a siren, flaunt your sex appeal to him, let him know you admire and desire him. 

Still not sure that has anything to do with " At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?"


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I shouldnthave said:


> Ahhh, and the plot twists.
> 
> Hair, honestly?! Because most women's hair gets thinner as she ages. Very few "older" women have hair that is thick enough to look luxurious while long. Or if there are a lot of kids under foot etc, she may not have time for all of the care long hair takes.
> 
> I am just about 40 - I keep my hair just past my shoulders - when I was young, I used to keep it very long. Now, I still get tons of compliments on my hair, but the super long days are over. I don't have quite the thickness any more, and I feel my hair is a bit more contemporary and "adult" when its not super long.
> 
> I never kept my hair long to attract a husband, nor did I cut it shorter because I do not care about my appearance.
> 
> I would say most women keep themselves primped for themselves, because that is what makes them happy. And most that do not, do not place that high of importance on it.
> 
> My grandma is 96. She still does her hair, and puts on make up every day. Does she do it for male attention? Certainly not. She does it for herself.
> 
> What other examples do you have? What was the tone of this church group discussion?
> 
> Conversely, why do so many married men get beer guts? Is it because he is no longer trying to find a wife, or at an age where his physical appearance just doesn't matter any more?


I ❤ your last paragraph.


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## BluesPower

I don't think I understand the question.

I have never been manipulated that I am aware of. 

I think that women are beautiful at every age. 

Mine is, she is 60, and a bit of a cougar as I am a little younger. 

However, she does manipulate me into making love to her twice a day everyday that we are together...

Wait, I am being manipulated.... OMG.......


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## SunCMars

These ladies, these wonderful creatures.

They will rule the world and men. 
For how long? 
When does the change-over occur.?

At that point, at that juicy juncture...
When not one love-hungry man can squeeze juice out of that orange.

When that happens, some man will keep trying.
He should.

Never let a women turn to dust.
Keep pumping.


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## personofinterest

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps it is better stated as: at what age do married women stop trying as hard with their physical appearance, because they know they've already got the man and at a certain age it won't matter anymore.
> Hair length was used as an example. Many younger women keep their hair long, but then cut it short as they get older. Why? Is it a tool to attract a husband or because she really likes it?


Wow....you really overthink don't you?

I love my hair long. There is no "tool" about it. However, I am past the half-centruy mark now, and at a certain point, the long hair might not flatter me very much. Or hormone changes might make it more brittle. If that happens, then cutting it significantly might be more attractive.

My mom is in her late 70's. She still puts just as much effort in as she did when I was growing up. So do I.

Where did you get this.....view of women?


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## TheBohannons

personofinterest said:


> Wow....you really overthink don't you?
> 
> I love my hair long. There is no "tool" about it. However, I am past the half-centruy mark now, and at a certain point, the long hair might not flatter me very much. Or hormone changes might make it more brittle. If that happens, then cutting it significantly might be more attractive.
> 
> My mom is in her late 70's. She still puts just as much effort in as she did when I was growing up. So do I.
> 
> Where did you get this.....view of women?


No, he is not over thinking it. There is just something about a woman's hair that is just so....woman. Long hair and the little black dress will never go out of style.

As to the age a woman can attract a man with her "charms",

Up to one day before she dies. Let's be honest, women have it that way.


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## ButWeAreStrange

TheBohannons said:


> No, he is not over thinking it. There is just something about a woman's hair that is just so....woman. Long hair and the little black dress will never go out of style.


That depends on who's looking hahaha My husband prefers pixie-cuts on women since he sees it as the best way to show-off a woman's facial features. For years I've gone back and forth between keeping my hair just beyond shoulder-length or cut super short and bedhead-like. It always depends on whether I'm bored or don't feel like messing with my hair, not my age. I actually didn't even start bothering to grow my hair long until after I'd entered my 20's (thanks to pregnancy) and even still it was never for more than a few months at a time before another significant cut. 

I do believe that women can communicate a lot with their hair which I find fascinating. But at the end of the day, not every length or cut is for every woman, and it's all about her finding what helps frame the natural beauty she projects regardless of age.


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## personofinterest

TheBohannons said:


> No, he is not over thinking it. There is just something about a woman's hair that is just so....woman. Long hair and the little black dress will never go out of style.
> 
> As to the age a woman can attract a man with her "charms",
> 
> Up to one day before she dies. Let's be honest, women have it that way.


It was the phrase about her using it as some manipulative tool that made me roll my eyes.

Honestly, I cannot imagine being married to someone who thinks women are so subversive.


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## TheBohannons

personofinterest said:


> It was the phrase about her using it as some manipulative tool that made me roll my eyes.
> 
> Honestly, I cannot imagine being married to someone who thinks women are so subversive.


I get your point, but sometimes you can intercept the ball and run in a different direction.

Nothing wrong with a little "manipulation" if you know it is coming. Dont mind being "persuaded". Quite honestly, it can be down right enjoyable. For both sides.


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## dadstartingover

Read the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts". A real eye-opener. 

Summary: As far as female attractiveness goes, youth rules. We know this because with the anonymous nature of the internet and google searches we can tell what people are looking for. Not what they SAY they like, but what they actually type into the search bar when looking for something "to get the job done".

98% of the porn consumers are men.

A giant chunk of the porn searches is age-related. 

The vast majority of those age-related searches are for younger women (teen, cheerleader, student, step-daughter, etc).

When they looked at the date for online dating, men checked out the 20-something gals a lot more than the rest. This was regardless of the man's age. 

This is where people throw their hands up and say:

1. _*"This is B.S. I'm a dude and I like my wife. I worship her. No other women exist. Especially young women. Stupid young women. I hate them. So dumb."*_ *staring at young women* *has a bad porn habit* 
2. "God, men are pigs" (true)

Meanwhile, women color their hair, lie about their age, apply makeup to hide signs of aging, use botox, implants, injections, edit/manipulate their online photos, etc. 

Men? They get beer guts. Why? Because they're convinced that the shallow stuff like keeping in shape is not important to maintain a relationship and keep their wife attracted to them. They bought that *"it's only what is inside that counts"* BS hook line and sinker. Kinda like *"Men aren't more attracted to younger women"*. 

With that being said, my wife is 37 and I truly think she is one insanely hot piece of *** and I tell her this on a daily basis. I still look at younger women. So does she.


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## TheBohannons

A lot of women over 40 would disagree with that post.


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## TheBohannons

Oh and "MILF" overtook "cheerleader" 10 years ago.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TheBohannons said:


> A lot of women over 40 would disagree with that post.


And men.


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## Middle of Everything

Fozzy said:


> Perhaps a better way to phrase the question might be "At what age do men start respecting themselves enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated?"


Another way to phrase it. "At what age do men's testosterone levels drop to where they are not walking erections?" :smthumbup::wink2:


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## TheBohannons

Middle of Everything said:


> Another way to phrase it. "At what age do men's testosterone levels drop to where they are not walking erections?" :smthumbup::wink2:


Hopefully, one day before death also.


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## Tiggy!

dadstartingover said:


> .
> 
> 98% of the porn consumers are men.


:scratchhead:


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## dadstartingover

TheBohannons said:


> Oh and "MILF" overtook "cheerleader" 10 years ago.


Yep, MILF is up there.


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## Tiggy!

]


Actually interesting results, I don't think it proves much either way though.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

dadstartingover said:


> Yep, MILF is up there.


Nice cherry picking there. That is but one source, and not one of the major ones, and one I'm guessing with a fairly narrow clientele.

Meanwhile, the results you get from the absolute monster of free porn, Pornhub, tell a completely different story. For almost every age group of user, "MILF" tops "teen."

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...t-makes-for-interesting-reading-10088666.html


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## dadstartingover

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Nice cherry picking there. That is but one source, and not one of the major ones, and one I'm guessing with a fairly narrow clientele.
> 
> Meanwhile, the results you get from the absolute monster of free porn, Pornhub, tell a completely different story. For almost every age group of user, "MILF" tops "teen."
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...t-makes-for-interesting-reading-10088666.html


That came from Dogpile searches (a conglomerate of search engine data) and from the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts". It represents literally millions of sex-related searches across all search engines. Not sure of the date range of the data. I in no way endorse or promote the data... I just simply said "Look at this". It's not nice. Like most things in the mating game.

This was quoted in the book, as well (OK Cupid data).:










And for the women:










You can tell when the testosterone levels start to drop in men. "Okay... I GUESS I'll look at the 24 year olds now. Sheesh." :laugh:


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## PigglyWiggly

I think my wife is hot AF, I think 20 somethings are hot AF, I think Helen Mirren is hot AF and come to think of it, I just love women. I'm not a walking erection but an erection is only a small moment of intimacy away. I might have low standards, I might have poor taste but either allows me to enjoy a lot of eye candy. More porn tastes vary from 18-88..blind, crippled or insane


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## Yeswecan

MAJDEATH said:


> Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


Well...never.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

late 30ish to 40ish... depending on fitness and genetics.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> late 30ish to 40ish... depending on fitness and genetics.


My wife's well over 50 and she did a magnificent job:xmanipulating me last night. I was powerless against her and wouldn't have had it any other way. :grin2:


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## UpsideDownWorld11

TheBohannons said:


> Oh and "MILF" overtook "cheerleader" 10 years ago.


I became a porn connoiseur in my sexless marriage to the ex AND most of the Milf porn were like late 30's/ early 40's (likely none of them were actual moms) with nice fake boobs and very fit. Not much at all like the moms I see around town.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My wife's well over 50 and she did a magnificent job:xmanipulating me last night. I was powerless against her and wouldn't have had it any other way. :grin2:


Of course, she is your wife.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Of course, she is your wife.


Yes. She does have that going for her.

But I can honestly and confidently say that were I to find myself unattached, I would find women close to my own age more attractive than younger women. My wife's got some pretty hot friends.


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## MAJDEATH

The change of when young ladies have power of influence over all men, to when they only have power over 1 man: their husband.

My W said this happened in her 30s when shopping for clothes and the young sales girl called her "ma'am".


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## personofinterest

The more I read on forums, the more I love my husband lol


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MAJDEATH said:


> The change of when young ladies have power of influence over all men, to when they only have power over 1 man: their husband.
> 
> My W said this happened in her 30s when shopping for clothes and the young sales girl called her "ma'am".


You're still dealing in false absolutes. There is not a woman alive who can have power over all men. Sure, Sofia Vergara or Kate Upton are gonna' make more fellas drop their jaw than Roseanne Barr or Bea Arthur, but there are always plenty of outliers. Personally, I remember when Pamela Anderson was voted hottest woman on the planet and I was like "Really?" 

Again, there are just too many variables to make any kind of generalization. Many attractive women lose their luster rather early while some remain sexually alluring well into their senior years. Ever see Sophia Loren at 70? Beats the hell out of many former babes by the time they're half that age.


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## Tiggy!

I think the better question is, has any women ever experienced having the power to manipulate/influence all men?

Or has any women here attempted to do this?


Because I know I've never tried to.


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## I shouldnthave

MAJDEATH said:


> The change of when young ladies have power of influence over all men, to when they only have power over 1 man: their husband.
> 
> My W said this happened in her 30s when shopping for clothes and the young sales girl called her "ma'am".


Wow... I can't say I have EVER thought like this. 

First, I never believed, carried myself, expected, observed.... that I had "power of influence over all men". 

I think of men as guys, friends, dudes, just people. Maybe its because I grew up a Tom Boy? Maybe its because I spent my weekends wrenching on cars with the guys, rather than brunching with the gals? 

But I never felt like I had "power" to influence them. I have never set out with the intent to manipulate. 

So I guess I never observed the loss of this magical power.... because its not one I wielded in the first place. 

That said... I get hit on more, get more looks, get more compliments from strangers now at pushing 40 than I did when I was 20. I don't know why that is besides perhaps its my confidence, I tend to have a "got the world by the balls" attitude these days, which catches attention in a totally different way than a 20 year old does. 

Hell, last week got hit on, and called "Ma'am" by the same young buck. Guess he is one of those that searches MILF rather than teen.


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## I shouldnthave

Tiggy! said:


> I think the better question is, has any women ever experienced having the power to manipulate/influence all men?
> 
> Or has any women here attempted to do this?
> 
> Because I know I've never tried to.


Wish there was a love button - I agree, this reality described above by the OP is totally different than the one I have lived.


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## personofinterest

I shouldnthave said:


> Tiggy! said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the better question is, has any women ever experienced having the power to manipulate/influence all men?
> 
> Or has any women here attempted to do this?
> 
> Because I know I've never tried to.
> 
> 
> 
> Wish there was a love button - I agree, this reality described above by the OP is totally different than the one I have lived.
Click to expand...

Like many, the OP's reality is based on how he chooses to view women.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

personofinterest said:


> Like many, the OP's reality is based on how he chooses to view women.


And how he views himself and how he relates to women. Women have done OP wrong so he sees them as having had power over him. He then extrapolates that to any woman having power over all men. 

Once he realizes he can be the master of his own destiny, he'll gain a broader, and less jaundiced view of women. And as a corollary benefit, he'll have better relationships as well.


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## Faithful Wife

MAJDEATH said:


> The change of when young ladies have power of influence over all men, to when they only have power over 1 man: their husband.
> 
> My W said this happened in her 30s when shopping for clothes and the young sales girl called her "ma'am".


1. So are you saying that before her 30’s your wife had the power of influence over “all men”?

2. Are you now saying that your wife only has the power of influence over you?

3. What do you believe that “influence” actually achieves over men? Are you talking about men getting an erection when looking at a woman?


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## Rowan

I'm Southern. I've been called "ma'am" by men of every age and stripe since I was about 14. And, yet, I've never lacked for admiring male attention. So, I'm guessing that any suspected relation between being called such, and a woman's loss of some mythical power to influence all men, must be entirely cultural.


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## MAJDEATH

Faithful Wife said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> The change of when young ladies have power of influence over all men, to when they only have power over 1 man: their husband.
> 
> My W said this happened in her 30s when shopping for clothes and the young sales girl called her "ma'am".
> 
> 
> 
> 1. So are you saying that before her 30’s your wife had the power of influence over “all men”?
> 
> 2. Are you now saying that your wife only has the power of influence over you?
> 
> 3. What do you believe that “influence” actually achieves over men? Are you talking about men getting an erection when looking at a woman?
Click to expand...

No, an example would be getting deep discounts at a store by selecting a young male clerk and smiling/flirting a lot.


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## arbitrator

Fozzy said:


> *Perhaps a better way to phrase the question might be "At what age do men start respecting themselves enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated?"*


*And even at the ripe old age of 65, I'm still literally scared crapless of them because of their past bad, unfaithful experiences!*


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## MAJDEATH

The power that makes men look at women on the beach, even when their W is watching them.


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## Rowan

MAJDEATH said:


> The power that makes men look at women on the beach, even when their W is watching them.


That's not a power possessed by women, but a lack of will power and self control in the men.


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## john117

MAJDEATH said:


> No, an example would be getting deep discounts at a store by selecting a young male clerk and smiling/flirting a lot.


Standard operating procedure when shopping in the Caribbeans for us


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## She'sStillGotIt

dadstartingover said:


> Men? They get beer guts. Why? Because they're convinced that the shallow stuff like keeping in shape is not important to maintain a relationship and keep their wife attracted to them. They bought that *"it's only what is inside that counts"* BS hook line and sinker. Kinda like *"Men aren't more attracted to younger women"*.


Nah.

They go to pot because they get lazy and looking good for their wives really just isn't that high on their priority list after so many years. I think a lot of women think this way, as well. But I honestly don't know ONE guy who is actually stupid enough to believe that he can look like Quasimodo if he wants to, and his wife will still look at him like he's Prince Charming. I really don't know any men who fervently believe that women ONLY love whats on the inside.


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## dadstartingover

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Nah.
> 
> They go to pot because they get lazy and looking good for their wives really just isn't that high on their priority list after so many years. I think a lot of women think this way, as well. But I honestly don't know ONE guy who is actually stupid enough to believe that he can look like Quasimodo if he wants to, and his wife will still look at him like he's Prince Charming. I really don't know any men who fervently believe that women ONLY love whats on the inside.


You are severely underestimating the *"all women are deep, thoughtful creatures that aren't shallow sexual beings like us"* mentality that MANY (not all) men have. Especially after the wife has children. A lot of men just throw aside the shallow acts of "dating" their wife and just succumb to the lazy boredom of life, and they have ZERO notion that their wife may actually no longer be sexually attracted to them.

See: Almost every dead bedroom post by a man.

*"I cook, I clean, I help around the house, I bought her things... and yet I still don't get any. I mean, sure, I'm 40 lbs heavier and I don't look anything like I used to... but still." *


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## MZMEE

Uuuuuuuuuummmmmmm......wow. Not real sure what you are asking but let me take a stab. You mean LOOKS mean more than the character of a person. If people are still choosing mates because of looks.....no wonder the rate of adultery and fornication is growing. 

The real truth is this. EVERYONE...men and women...are going to go through physical changes eventually. Even if you choose the best looking woman on the face of the earth...guess what...eventually that pretty face and banging body will droop unless she dedicates herself to years of plastic surgery (which some have sadly resulted to). Even then...plastic surgery will eventually fail.

So what is a man going to do...keep dropping a woman and going to the newer model? Well some men have resulted to that and to me it is so sad. If you are looking for a certain age...truth be told it can happen anytime. I've seen women in their 20s and 30s who look worse than a woman in their 40s and 50s. So age doesn't necessarily mean better or worse. It really is all about the genes, how you take care of yourself and what you do to enhance the outer. I'm 48 and most people think I am in my early 30s because I haven't lived a hard life to age myself, I have good genes and I have done nothing to enhance myself so what you see is what you get. 

So my answer is this....if you meet a man who solely focuses on your looks...keep moving! That's a man who will most likely cheat on you or throw you away eventually. The beauty of a woman or man is something that should be *extra*..not the foundation of a relationship. It should be the nice touch, not the determining factor. It's like when you buy a car, you shouldn't just buy the car because it has a booming stereo system. It first must have a reliable engine, then "oh by the way", here is a great stereo system. You are not going to throw a whole car away because the stereo system failed.

Not quite sure if this is what you were asking but this is what I got out of it.

I really hope our society has not dropped that low to think what they see on the outside is the determining factor of a solid relationship...let's face it, half of what these woman have going on can be washed off and taken off anyway.


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## 269370

MAJDEATH said:


> Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?




This sounds like a hilarious church group with questions that REALLY matter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spicy

MAJDEATH said:


> Topic at recent church couples group. At what age do adult women lose the ability to get men to succumb to their youth/attractiveness and are so old that this power doesn't work anymore?


Topic: Reasons to find a new church.


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## personofinterest

MAJDEATH said:


> The power that makes men look at women on the beach, even when their W is watching them.


Sorry, that is not woman power. That is YOUR own flaw. But this is exactly what I expected to hear. 

Take responsibility for YOU. It;s not our fault you can't bounce your eyes.


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## Middle of Everything

Rowan said:


> That's not a power possessed by women, but a lack of will power and self control in the men.


That thing between our legs makes us do some stupid things.:grin2:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Middle of Everything said:


> That thing between our legs makes us do some stupid things.:grin2:


Reminds me of an old joke.

A mom is in a hurry and needs to bathe both of her young'uns (boy and girl), so she simply tosses them in the tub at the same time. 

The little boy looks at his sister an points between his legs saying "You're jealous because you don't have one of these."

To which the little girl responds by pointing between her legs and saying "Oh, please. I've got one of these and with one of these, I can get all of those I want!"


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

OP,

Maybe the better question to ask is when does the change occur in men; which is to say when do they grow up and take responsibility for their own actions?


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## BigDigg

personofinterest said:


> Sorry, that is not woman power. That is YOUR own flaw. But this is exactly what I expected to hear.
> 
> Take responsibility for YOU. It;s not our fault you can't bounce your eyes.


Sorry - this comment and a couple other similar ones rub me the wrong way. Apologize in advance for the vent and not directed at you personally. Also not trying to thread jack or start a war of sexes. Mods feel free to move or delete as needed.

There's a sense of morality in your post though that is entirely based on the female view of expected normal behavior. That's somewhat become the norm in society these days. It also implicitly assumes that men and women are exactly the same. We most certainly are not. The average male has over 100x the amount of testosterone coursing through his veins. That and other physiological differences (not to even mention socialization differences) do matter. When 50% of the 7 billion people on this planet have things one way vs. the other there isn't an inherent right or wrong. Being a man and having male feelings isn't a flaw.

Now does this excuse bad behavior or violating women in any way? Of course not. Does that condone men leering at you or catcalling or being gym creepers? Of course not. Is it a great thing that we are no longer in the Mad Men era surrounded by Don Drapers? Yes. And yes of course men are responsible for themselves and their behavior and we're not helpless in controlling ourselves. Just know that we ARE different and to some extent we are biologically wired differently and that does sometimes manifest itself in different behaviors. Some men are better than others at this but we're not automatically 3.5 billion flawed creepers out there for finding women attractive and struggling to avert gaze. 

Sorry...men are certainly capable of terrible things and making a mess of the world, but I just think we'd be far better off celebrating differences and sharing vs. pretending they don't exist and demonizing. 

/Vent


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## Rowan

BigDigg said:


> Sorry - this comment and a couple other similar ones rub me the wrong way. Apologize in advance for the vent and not directed at you personally. Also not trying to thread jack or start a war of sexes. Mods feel free to move or delete as needed.
> 
> There's a sense of morality in your post though that is entirely based on the female view of expected normal behavior. That's somewhat become the norm in society these days. It also implicitly assumes that men and women are exactly the same. We most certainly are not. The average male has over 100x the amount of testosterone coursing through his veins. That and other physiological differences (not to even mention socialization differences) do matter. When 50% of the 7 billion people on this planet have things one way vs. the other there isn't an inherent right or wrong. Being a man and having male feelings isn't a flaw.
> 
> Now does this excuse bad behavior or violating women in any way? Of course not. Does that condone men leering at you or catcalling or being gym creepers? Of course not. Is it a great thing that we are no longer in the Mad Men era surrounded by Don Drapers? Yes. And yes of course men are responsible for themselves and their behavior and we're not helpless in controlling ourselves. Just know that we ARE different and to some extent we are biologically wired differently and that does sometimes manifest itself in different behaviors. Some men are better than others at this but we're not automatically 3.5 billion flawed creepers out there for finding women attractive and struggling to avert gaze.
> 
> Sorry...men are certainly capable of terrible things and making a mess of the world, but I just think we'd be far better off celebrating differences and sharing vs. pretending they don't exist and demonizing.
> 
> /Vent


While I do not disagree with you, please understand that the comment I and others were responding to was one which indicated that attractive women somehow have the power to force men to gawk at them, even in the presence of their spouse. That's....just odd. No one is making a man gawk while his wife is standing right there. Women are not exercising some mystical power that compels men to behave in this way.

Attractive people, of both sexes, are attractive. Folks who find them attractive are going to look. But attractive people are not controlling the behavior of their observers. It's not some spell they're casting. It's not a "power" they're using to make anyone else behave in a certain way. Anyone who cannot stop themselves from staring, even when their spouse is with them and noticing their preoccupation, is failing to exercise their own willpower. They're not victims of mind control. They're just failing to control themselves.


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## BigDigg

Rowan said:


> While I do not disagree with you, please understand that the comment I and others were responding to was one which indicated that attractive women somehow have the power to force men to gawk at them, even in the presence of their spouse. That's....just odd. No one is making a man gawk while his wife is standing right there. Women are not exercising some mystical power that compels men to behave in this way.
> 
> Attractive people, of both sexes, are attractive. Folks who find them attractive are going to look. But attractive people are not controlling the behavior of their observers. It's not some spell they're casting. It's not a "power" they're using to make anyone else behave in a certain way. Anyone who cannot stop themselves from staring, even when their spouse is with them and noticing their preoccupation, is failing to exercise their own willpower. They're not victims of mind control. They're just failing to control themselves.


I think there was some debate recently on this in the gym creeper thread so I won't go there and repeat all that. *Shockingly* there was a different view depending on which team you play for, though I think most sane people agree that it's up to the men to control themselves and not make women feel uncomfortable. I feel that way too.

However I think it's completely naive to say that some people (including men) don't use their attractiveness to their advantage or to take advantage of others. I mean there are mail order brides, sugar daddy websites, and plenty of cliches about attractive women stringing along dopey men. Not everyone certainly. I'm not even saying that's morally wrong btw. It's human nature to use the tools you have to optimize your outcome. Humans are inherently selfish creatures (men and women) though again there are degrees and each person controls themselves. Some are better than others and there are good people on this planet of course (including you ). 

So attractive women making a man gawk? Some certainly do court the attention (I don't think that's debatable) but even assuming they don't, I can tell you as a man that your 'radar' never goes away. We're aware of attractive women when they walk into the room. It's easy enough for me personally to behave myself, but i'm not surprised that some can't and I understand the urge. I don't think you can ever really understand what it's like to walk in those shoes. It's like trying to explain the color red to someone who's colorblind (Protanopia - had to look that up). 

Sorry again to gripe. These days there's seemingly not a soul on this planet who doesn't have something to gripe about. Us men do have our hardships and hope you can cut the wellmeaning of our kind some slack


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## Livvie

If you are saying that men absolutely can't control themselves and that women just can't understand this... Then I think we should take this to heart and stop letting men be in positions of power and responsibility. If they can't even control whether they gape at an attractive woman who enters a room, how on Earth can we expect them to control themselves in other aspects of behavior??


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## BigDigg

Livvie said:


> If you are saying that men absolutely can't control themselves and that women just can't understand this... Then I think we should take this to heart and stop letting men be in positions of power and responsibility. If they can't even control whether they gape at an attractive woman who enters a room, how on Earth can we expect them to control themselves in other aspects of behavior??


I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all. I think you missed the point entirely. Maybe you should read it again.


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## personofinterest

BigDigg said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, that is not woman power. That is YOUR own flaw. But this is exactly what I expected to hear.
> 
> Take responsibility for YOU. It;s not our fault you can't bounce your eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - this comment and a couple other similar ones rub me the wrong way. Apologize in advance for the vent and not directed at you personally. Also not trying to thread jack or start a war of sexes. Mods feel free to move or delete as needed.
> 
> There's a sense of morality in your post though that is entirely based on the female view of expected normal behavior. That's somewhat become the norm in society these days. It also implicitly assumes that men and women are exactly the same. We most certainly are not. The average male has over 100x the amount of testosterone coursing through his veins. That and other physiological differences (not to even mention socialization differences) do matter. When 50% of the 7 billion people on this planet have things one way vs. the other there isn't an inherent right or wrong. Being a man and having male feelings isn't a flaw.
> 
> Now does this excuse bad behavior or violating women in any way? Of course not. Does that condone men leering at you or catcalling or being gym creepers? Of course not. Is it a great thing that we are no longer in the Mad Men era surrounded by Don Drapers? Yes. And yes of course men are responsible for themselves and their behavior and we're not helpless in controlling ourselves. Just know that we ARE different and to some extent we are biologically wired differently and that does sometimes manifest itself in different behaviors. Some men are better than others at this but we're not automatically 3.5 billion flawed creepers out there for finding women attractive and struggling to avert gaze.
> 
> Sorry...men are certainly capable of terrible things and making a mess of the world, but I just think we'd be far better off celebrating differences and sharing vs. pretending they don't exist and demonizing.
> 
> /Vent
Click to expand...

This is an excellent epistle, however 

I already know men and women are different, and I'm glad we are.

I have a HIGH drive, my hubby and I average more than once a day, and if either of us are ever sick enough to NOT have sex for more than a couple of days, I'm climbing the walls.

The OP has a skewed view of women. It oozes from all his threads. Had it been a different poster, I might have responded to that poster differently. My.post was not a PSA. It was a response TO HIM.

No matter whose hormone levels are what, no, no woman "makes" a man check her out.

I always laugh when strangers assume I'm a feminist.


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## MAJDEATH

Men, by nature, are programmed to respond to the power of the visual.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MAJDEATH said:


> Men, by nature, are programmed to respond to the power of the visual. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9WZFeA4FzI


However, we are sentient beings, which means we have the ability to choose how we deal with our instincts. Yes, I am “programmed” to notice attractive women, but I am not a computer. I have the capability to alter my programming as I see fit. So I can notice hotness, but I still control my response to it. I need not let it rule me or my behavior. For me to do less would mean I have fallen well short of my human potential.


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## Tiggy!

MAJDEATH said:


> Men, by nature, are programmed to respond to the power of the visual. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9WZFeA4FzI


lol I never thought I would see Dennis Prager used as a source.

All I got from that was he doesn't have much understanding of many females.

I love how he's comparing women and men's legs as a example.


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## personofinterest

OP If you can't control yourself, that's your problem. The Bible talks just as much about self control as it does anything else. Man up and quit staring.


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## Livvie

BigDigg said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are saying that men absolutely can't control themselves and that women just can't understand this... Then I think we should take this to heart and stop letting men be in positions of power and responsibility. If they can't even control whether they gape at an attractive woman who enters a room, how on Earth can we expect them to control themselves in other aspects of behavior??
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all. I think you missed the point entirely. Maybe you should read it again.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that IS the essence of what you wrote. I think you aren't applying the theory of your own words. Maybe you should read it again.


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## highwood

A few years ago Dr. Phil had a show about "cougars" and one woman stands out...she was about 76 and looked good for her age, not just that but very charismatic/interesting and because of that she came off as sexy. She said she dates guys in their 50s as those guys go crazy for her. I could see why...her attitude and how she carried herself was very appealing. She was slim, fit and had a nice figure.

I worked with a girl who was talking about her sister in law and how at that time she was in her late 50s and she said the guys just went crazy for her...younger guys. She said she was not supermodel material but just how she carried herself and her attitude about life made younger guys go crazy.


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## NobodySpecial

brooklynAnn said:


> Never. Our main purpose is to keep stupid men under our thrall forever. And our powers never ever goes away.


Yah. We strive to bend the alpha. Or is it that we want the beta's money? I get confused about what we are supposed to do with other primates.


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Yah. We strive to bend the alpha. Or is it that we want the beta's money? I get confused about what we are supposed to do with other primates.


Whatever it is, it is bad, and boys hate us...except our vagina, which they really really want.

Of course, MEN know better than that


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Whatever it is, it is bad, and boys hate us...except our vagina, which they really really want.


Well, no. Sammiches.


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## As'laDain

BigDigg said:


> I think there was some debate recently on this in the gym creeper thread so I won't go there and repeat all that. *Shockingly* there was a different view depending on which team you play for, though I think most sane people agree that it's up to the men to control themselves and not make women feel uncomfortable. I feel that way too.
> 
> However I think it's completely naive to say that some people (including men) don't use their attractiveness to their advantage or to take advantage of others. I mean there are mail order brides, sugar daddy websites, and plenty of cliches about attractive women stringing along dopey men. Not everyone certainly. I'm not even saying that's morally wrong btw. It's human nature to use the tools you have to optimize your outcome. Humans are inherently selfish creatures (men and women) though again there are degrees and each person controls themselves. Some are better than others and there are good people on this planet of course (including you ).
> 
> So attractive women making a man gawk? Some certainly do court the attention (I don't think that's debatable) but even assuming they don't, I can tell you as a man that your 'radar' never goes away. We're aware of attractive women when they walk into the room. It's easy enough for me personally to behave myself, but i'm not surprised that some can't and I understand the urge. I don't think you can ever really understand what it's like to walk in those shoes. It's like trying to explain the color red to someone who's colorblind (Protanopia - had to look that up).
> 
> Sorry again to gripe. These days there's seemingly not a soul on this planet who doesn't have something to gripe about. Us men do have our hardships and hope you can cut the wellmeaning of our kind some slack


its funny that you mention mail order brides as using their looks to take advantage of men...

when i was in language school learning arabic, one of my assignments was to write about the differences between the arabic speaking world and the english speaking world, in arabic. so, i chose marriage as my topic. in the arabic speaking countries, arranged marrages are common, and divorce is low. mail order marriages are a kind of arranged marriage as well. and their divorce rates are also very low, compared to modern western marriages. 

what really surprised me was that mail order marriages between two parties who were born and raised in the US(kansas man marries florida woman, for instance) shared the same divorce rate as the rest of mail order marriages, about 20%. 

maybe they are using their looks to take advantage of men... but, then again, the vast majority of them stick with their husbands through thick and thin. 

as for the radar never going away... well, it certainly has for me at times. there have been times where very attractive women have gotten my attention and told me that they were watching me all day/night, and i didn't even know they were there. my wife tells me she finds it hilarious to watch them try. usually, in those moments, i am doing something that is interesting to me, and i don't notice the world around me.


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## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> Whatever it is, it is bad, and boys hate us...except our vagina, which they really really want.
> 
> Of course, MEN know better than that



Awwww C'mon, You're selling yourself short we like your boobs and your butts a lot as well.
Like NS said the Sammiches are part of the equation as well, and if they are BACON sammiches your power goes up immensely. So that begs the question which parallels OP's question: At what age do women lose the ability to make bacon sammiches?


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