# You folks don't mind if I journal here, do you?



## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Moved out yesterday. 

I've got a list of things I want to do for myself, a commitment to spend time with the kids and even the family. MC, IC. Hoping to improve my skill at socializing, overcome my fears of it. Also hoping to become better at being by myself. I've got some old friends that I can reconnect with, some newer friends to get to know better (hopefully), some battered relationships besides my wife that I can try to repair. 

I think I've got a good track laid. Now it's just a matter of running the course. 

Not dedicated to saving the marriage. Dedicated to saving the relationship. I'd rather be amiable co-parents of my darling children than bitter spouses.

Really torn on if I should contemplate dating during the separation - right now my plan is not to, but to be open to revisiting the idea in 3 months (arbitrary time limit, just to pin myself down. Setting goals and boundaries is one of the things I'm working on.) I recognize it would hurt her, particularly with my A, and her own issues of jealousy and inadequacy, and make her even more miserable. I also recognize I've only dated my wife ever, and that she pursued me during that time. Once she opened the door, I put myself forward to be the best boyfriend I could - but I made her open the door. So I've decided to wait.

Very confused over recognizing what is legitimate complaint of bad behavior on her part, what is behavior I've allowed to become habit, and what is blame-shifting. Work for the IC, I suppose. Right now, I stand at 'there are things which she does which may well be entirely my fault - but they are still wrong things, and I don't have to endure abuse, even if I have invited it. I just need to be clear that I'm no longer inviting it or tolerating it.' Again, open to adjustment as things progress, but I feel that's about as healthy a stance as I can manage ATM.

Her family sees me abandoning her, my family has the stance of 'you're a grown man, and we can't stop you from making a horrible mistake.' Thankfully, I have no idea what her friends say. I'm down to one friend who knows the situation right now, and she struggles with the notion that I had an affair (she was cheated on) and that my wife may be more than the sweet, charming person all her friends know her to be. Not that she isn't sweet and charming - she's a wonderful woman. But there's more to her. Trying to bring a few others up to speed, but they're only going to have my second-hand, biased reports to go off of. 

One friend who's struggling and my IC, who I'm still in the early 'tell me about yourself' stages with. That's my current support.

I've been hearing - in those honest, painful discussions, not the heat of anger - "I feel that respecting you and trusting you to do what needs to be done without being told makes me a weaker person." "I have no drive for intimacy with you, and your emotional distance means I don't even want to change that." "I don't think you put any thought into the consequneces of your choices - and that that endangers our children." "How will you learn what you did wrong if I don't point it out to you?" and of course, ILYBINILWY. oh. And "This separation is for you - I have my friends, I'm strong, and I don't need to change anything. I'm just waiting for you to do what you need to do and come back." Oh. and "I think it's cute when our (8yo) daughter tries to keep you from making a mistake."

My hope is entirely in fixing myself. I know that my behavior has created this situation, and that all I can do at this point is fix myself. I can't ask her to change. But I can learn to set boundaries of what is and is not acceptable behavior - and all of that above is unacceptable. I could tolerate much of it in a co-parent or an XW (except the last one). But not in a spouse. Not in a life partner. Not anymore.

So maybe I can endure the quiet house for a little while. Sometimes a train goes by. I'm curious how often, and at what times.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Lots of thought and self-awareness there.

Good luck


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bax: Welcome to TAM. You'll find support here, but you'll also get called out to the woodshed, too!

Regarding dating during separation: not a good idea! It can, more often than not, be used against you in court and in mediation. I'd highly recommend not seeing anybody for as long as the divorce suit is active. Could hurt you far more in ultimately getting full custody of the kids!


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no dating is the way to go. Not like I have any prospects right now. I only even mentioned it because the MC asked us 'so are either of you intending to date?' and the look of shock was so palpable on her face - and I'd never even considered the question. I'm not committing to no dating yet, though, because I'm certain she and I would have very different ideas of what would constitute 'dating' - I picture an ongoing relationship with a single person is 'dating', and I'm pretty sure she would include 'going out to a bar in mixed company' as dating. Or even sometimes 'speaking to a female.' Not that she's considered that dating in the past, but it HAS triggered her insecurity and inspired her to launch some pretty healvy salvos my way. Including conversations with my own mother, or customer service people at the bank over the phone.

Hadn't really looked ahead at the possibility of my actions being used against me if we did head for the D. Kind of makes it hard to maintain a healing separation where I focus on myself if I still have to second guess what her reactions will be. More job security for the MC and IC, I guess.

But I do know I have no intention of trying to get full custody of the kids. She's a fantastic mother - she was born to be a mother. I can think of no act that would hurt her more than trying to take her kids away. I have zero complaints about how she's raising the kids - I just wish she were half as dedicated or interested in being a wife.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

So my wife calls me this morning while I'm getting ready for work. Asks what I'm up to. I respond, 'At the moment, I'm changing my shirt.' She replies 'what did you spill on the first one?' I said 'Nothing, I'm just getting ready for work. I've got to get out the door here soon.'

She then starts crying about how she's sorry she called me, and now I'm frustrated at her for calling, and she's just having a rough morning and needs to talk...'

And I said 'I'm really sorry you feel like that. But I'm afraid I don't have time to talk right now. I do love you.' And hung up.

And now I feel like a grade A heel.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Hi bax and yes feel free to journal all you want, why are you separating ?? i guess i didnt understand is it for yall to decide whats best or was someone cheating ?? I feel that you both should share equally in the marriage meaning that it isnt all your fault or her fault maybe 50/50 -jmo 

Good Luck


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

BaxJanson said:


> *And now I feel like a grade A heel*.


No real need to feel like a heel, Bax! After all, she didn't feel too much like a heel whenever she did what she did to you!

And only until such time that you see some form of genuine, believable, repentance on her part, you owe her absolutely nothing!


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

A bit of both, actually. I did cheat a while back, which is where I screwed up. I seriously wish I'd recognized sooner that I was so miserable before I strayed. She regards me as one of her children - and not the precious one, either. More like the slow, stupid one that's constantly tripping and breaking things. More, she sees nothing wrong with seeing me like that, and has no desire to change it. We had a sexless marriage for years, and I'd like to address that eventually - once we get past the fact that she can't seem to give me the common courtesies she gives to the dog.

It's all super tangled up right now. I know my self-esteem has never been lower, and every time I try to pick myself up, she squashes me flat agian. I've been on the verge of suicide for weeks. She has many tendancies and habits that border on emotional abuse - and while I'm willing and able to put up with them when I'm in a stronger place, I feel right now that 'staying put' and 'giving things time' is putting me at risk. So I'm running. Yeah, I'm a coward who is running from the consequences of my poor choices. I'll admit it.

I'm committing to it being a healing separation, because I do love her. I can do that much for her, just in case it is all my fault. At the very least, I want to fix myself up to a point where I can handle the disdain from her again. Ideally, I hope it will fix the marriage - at least this has a greater chance of success of reaching that end than simple separation or divorce.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Like the most of us here - you have co-dependency and Nice Guy issues.

You work on those issues and you'll become a better partner for your wife or any other woman you meet in the future.

"I'm a coward who is running from the consequences of my poor choices. I'll admit it."

Good, its time to address it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Thing is, I enjoy being a nice guy. I dislike people who aren't nice, and I have no desire to be like them. I figure my biggest first step will be learning to give my own opinion equal weight to others', as well as learning to balance what it is that I need and what I want with what I want and need to give to others. Big difference from the current stance of giving others what they need - what I want to give them. To do it because I want to because I love them, and not because they need it.

Stayed at the house last night while W stayed at her parents - part of the deal, so I get the kids up on a weekday morning, and she gets time off in an evening. Didn't get everything done she wanted done, but had a wonderful evening with my kids. W really is sad to see me gone - I really feel like she does love me, she simply has forgotten, if she ever knew, how to treat me in a positive manner. So I'm demanding that she learn how to. She did start to get on me for not bathing the kids, and leaving dishes in the sink, but I cut her off with 'was anything on fire when you arrived? Did the children have the number of limbs you expected? Then the rest can be dealt with. I apologize for the dishes in the sink - I'll try to be more aware of that next time.' And off to work I went.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

BaxJanson said:


> I figure my biggest first step will be learning to give my own opinion equal weight to others', as well as learning to balance what it is that I need and what I want with what I want and need to give to others. Big difference from the current stance of giving others what they need - what I want to give them. To do it because I want to because I love them, and not because they need it.


https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Read. ASAP.

Some of the answers to which why you are here are referred to in this small but powerful book.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BaxJanson said:


> So my wife calls me this morning while I'm getting ready for work. Asks what I'm up to. I respond, 'At the moment, I'm changing my shirt.' She replies 'what did you spill on the first one?' I said 'Nothing, I'm just getting ready for work. I've got to get out the door here soon.'
> 
> She then starts crying about how she's sorry she called me, and now I'm frustrated at her for calling, and she's just having a rough morning and needs to talk...'
> 
> ...


Why?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BaxJanson said:


> Didn't get everything done she wanted done,


Let's examine this a bit further.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

She apparently wanted me to give the children a bath - they bathe every other day. I asked my oldest if they bathed last night, she said yes. I didn't bathe them.

I prepared dinner, and rinsed the dishes off and left them in the sink with the other rinsed-off dishes. Apparently I was not supposed to leave her with a sink full of dishes.

There were a few toys scattered about the living room when I arrived. There were a few scattered about when I left. They were different toys. I was apparently not supposed to leave her with a messy living room she needed to clean.

That wasn't the entire morning - she was actually quite curious how things went, how things are going. Said she missed me a lot, and that she's already starting to spot some things, like exercise isn't as bad as she thought, and her parents are like her, only moreso. Overall, I was left rather positive, which is a nice change of pace. But I'm still looking out for unexplained obligations and expectations that I can be tagged for later. If she doesn't beat me up for them, I do. Which I'm working on fixing, because I don't deserve it.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Interesting weekend. 

Watched the kids all day Saturday - had a lot of fun. Finally starting to get my apartment in shape. Had a friend over, got the internet up and running. Almost ready to dive in and start some of these projects I've set for myself to accomplish. Once my w came home, I connected with her for a bit - she had been scrapbooking, so I asked to see the pages she finished. We sat and watch tv for a half hour.

Sunday, I woke before the alarm, and decided to play the piano and do a bit of bible study on my own instead of joining the family at church. Met up with them afterwards, and spent the rest of the day with them. W scolded me and cried because I didn't come to church. Told me that she was afraid I was starting things off on a bad footing, and that I didn't want to do what was right. I told her I'd be leaving once I put the kids down. She apparently expected me to sit and watch tv with her again. Told me that it just makes her miserable and afraid and cry when I don't stick to a well-defined schedule. And that she was just messing everything up and driving me further away.

I feel these are true feelings - they are what she's actually experiencing. I just can't figure out how to give them credence without feeling like I'm sticking my hand in a snare. If I allow them to affect my choices, the result will be living according to her schedule again. I'm not very good at saying 'No, I need time right now' yet. Especially not when it's my kids involved. 

I spent more time with them this weekend than I have in months. Took them to a park, let them play in a stream, run over a bridge, pushed them on a merry-go-round... When I'm alone with my kids, and not including her in my thoughts... I feel like I'm a good dad. Not perfect - kids got their clothes dirty, didn't eat much lunch, took a nap with them in the afternoon... but good. And even getting clothes dirty and taking a nap with them - I don't feel those are bad things.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Ok. Apparently my wife is currently throwing a multi-friend temper tantrum because I'm not calling to check in and see how her Individual session went. Setting her friends and family against each other, a few of them trying to back away from offering me advice. Our agreement was that we would call if we NEEDED to talk, and that we could if we WANTED to, but that if we didn't, that did not mean we weren't interested or that we didn't care. At least she's giving me the gift of not calling me to rope me in this time. That's progress.

And folks wonder why I hesitate to call her when she's feeling in pain. I hope some of them are goining a new-found appreciation for what I actually put up with.


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