# His words & actions don't match



## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

In late April my husband updated his iphone, which changed some settings and began to send his imessages to my ipad. 95% of the messages were business related. however, I noticed he was a little too friendly with his female general manager. So I watched it for a few days until I couldn't take it anymore and I confronted him. He insisted there was nothing going on. I checked his phone to read the other half of their messages because some come through as texts and some come through as imessage. I find that she's not even listed as her name in his contact list. She's listed as security!! Then I discover he has deleted parts of their conversation. So I used Dr. Phone to recover deleted texts and didn't find anything sexual at all. What I did find was playful banter back and forth, lots of smiley faces, and work gossip. His excuse is that he's never had a female manager (he owns the business) and he's uncomfortable communicating with her. He didn't want her name popping up on his cell all the time so he listed her as security. They text a lot because she has to text him hourly rundowns on the numbers. He said he felt funny letting me know that he was communciating with a female every day and he was worried I would get jealous. Of coarse I don't believe this because I've never given him a reason to think that. He expressed his concern right before he gave her that position and i said "don't be silly, if she's the most qualified then give her the job". I've never been jealous over any female that worked for him. I knew they had to be texting because its part of the job. I just trusted him so I never checked his phone. 
He insists I lkeep his messages coming to my ipad because he says he has nothing to hide. Then he convinced me to start helping out with the business and working directly with his general manager so he doesnt have to communicate with her so much. So, I do but it's not easy for me because I just felt there was more to them than appeared. I beg him not to send me in there to work with her if something is going on between them and he swears he'd never do that. She's worked for us for 10+ years. Over the next few weeks we become friends and I actually like her. Their contact was cut back a lot. One day his credit card expired the auto pay for his cell phone so i log on to renew it and discover I can see his call logs. For about a month and a half they were texting up to 200 times a day!!! I flip out and become paranoid. He still denies anything and even tried to say he thinks of her as one of the guys. 
Then I trick him into thinking she told me something about a trip to hard rock because I just had a feeling. He confesses to going to Hard Rock with her and his previous GM twice. He was good friends with the previous GM and we often meet him and his wife at the casino. He blames inviting the girl on his friend. They went after her shift at 3am! My husband works all nights so I no clue. He tells me I was home asleep. Well I still feel like theres more so i start matching dates on his phone bill. I'm onto the truth and he knows it so he panics and fires her. i rehire the next morning because I don't think it's right and I still have no proof that anything happened for sure. Then he has the nerve to call her from someone elses phone and tells her to lie to me and stick with his story. I confront her and she lies to me. So I start matching dates with cell records and it hits me, theres no cell activity or texts from the ex GM that was supposed to be there. That's because he wasn't there. My husband took her there alone!! I confront my husband and after several hours he admits that the 3 of them did go twice but the last time it was just the two of them and I wasnt at home, I was on a Thanksgiving 4 day cruise with his family. The one he bailed on at the last minute and blamed work!! 
I called the girl and she said that my husband called and asked her to cover for me in order to save his marriage and say they only went twice and that it was the 3 ofthem but she's not covering for him anymore. Then she says the 3 of them did go twice but the last TWO times it was just her and my husband. She said her boyfriend knew she was there and she found it odd that my husband wanted her to keep it a secret. She said thelast time he asked her that she encouraged him to ask a male coworker but my husband said no. She then proceeded to tell me how much my husband loves me and would never cheat on me or risk losing me. This really annoyed me for her to be telling me how my husband feels about me. And please dont think theres anything going on between them. That as far as she is concerned she only went to play blackjack and because she needed the money. He would give her money to play with and if she won, he'd give her 10%. I know one night he gave her $700. 
His explanation is he just wanted to play blackjack and he didnt want to play alone. That he lied about it because he knew secrets like thiswould be a deal breakerfor me. I refuse to believe that my husband did not have feelings for this girl. I've never told him he can't play blackjack and ive never told him he cant go to hard rock. He works hard and can spend his money however he wants as far as Im concerned. I never tell him what he can and can't do. But yes, spending time with a single woman secretly at 330 am while Im on vacation that's he supposed to be on with me, is a huge betrayal to me. It just so happens to be the same woman he had listed under a different contact, deleted parts of texts and avoided bringingup her name or talking about her position at all!! I don't care what either of them say, you don't hide things unless you have something to hide. 
I think this was more of a one sided emotional affair. He sometimes admitshe had an emtional affair but denies he ever had any sort of feelings for her. I can't accept that he would betray me like this, destroy my trust, self esteem, lie to me, hide her from me, risk losing his family for someone just to play blackjack with. He claims he just made a mistake. He begs for forgivness and I believe he's sorry for hurting me. He's made a lot of positive changes, finally started counseling etc. He chose her 4 times over several months to take out at 3am behind his wifes back. The first time was a mistake. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th time were intentional. Then he sends me in to work with her knowing they had secrets. I look like an ass! Has her lie to me. I don't even understand why he would expect anyone to believe his bs! He chose her because he wanted to spend time with her. He admits he knew it was a deal breaker but yet he did it 4 times!!! He claims to love me and wants to save our marriage but lied to me over and over. He claims to not care about this girl at all but chose her to betray me with 4 times. He chose to hide her and delete her massages. I want to fix my marriage and I can fogive him but I only want to move forward if he will admit to some type of feelings for her at the time. He flat out refuses so i packed him a suitcase and kicked him out yesterday. This will be his 2nd night in a hotel. Hes not doing well. He's crying and asking me to forgive him and give him a chance but will not admit to any feelings. We are at a stand still. Neither of us will budge. I think its the least he could do. 
At times I feel silly for holding my ground over him admitting feelings but at the same time, I need to hear him say it. I can't believe he's not even budging. Please tell me I'm not crazy...please tell me all the red flags point to a man that had feelings for another woman and at the time they meant more than his marriage.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

People with nothing to hide don't lie. Your husband sounds like mine. Lie after lie after lie. There's more to the story. Eight months after DDay I'm finding out more stuff, like him buying some girl a lap dance at a strip club and sending a text to OW2 saying "this better not be my last kiss" (but he denies anything physical happened). 

You have every right to be suspicious because the entire things is suspicious. The fact he hid it and lied means he KNEW it would upset you. 

Marital fidelity boils down to this for me - if you wouldn't say or do it in front of your spouse, you shouldn't be doing it. Period.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

He's not budging because he is self preservation mode. It took DDay, six years after the fact, for him to admit that he, in fact, did go a to a strip club 6 years ago. Even though I had the credit card statement, he denied it FOR 6 YEARS! Never underestimate how far they will go to protect themselves.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you've only got part of the story. He has been trickle truthing you, telling you only as much as you've been able to find out for yourself. You think they haven't had sex? I would start to really begin to wrap your mind around the concept. He's following a really common pattern. He doesn't go on a family vacation with you, but takes her to a casino instead just to gamble? Very lame.

I wouldn't believe him. He's been lying all along and I would bet the farm that he is still lying. Tell him you will consider letting him back if he takes a poly.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Ah yes, the co-worker under a different name. I am VERY familiar with this one. It's a HUGE RED FLAG waving under your nose. UGG.

He was at the very least fishing big time and 200 texts in a day is what my 13 year old texts, not any married person. I can't text 20 times in a day before I get tired of it and just call the person. 

Oh, and my serial cheater husband used work as an excuse to bail on a vacation to California with the kids and I and he had a fun week of prostitutes every night while I took a 5 & 6 year old by myself. 

Big red flags, let him cry those big crocodile tears. You did good.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Re-read this. Sounds like she may have financial and or gambling issues and found an ATM in your husband. That being said, they may have had an PA ... OR... There was no PA but she was stringing him along to get him to pay for things. Either way the situation is deplorable. Is she still an employee? Could you run a credit check on her? Might shed some more light on the money issue.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

You have done well kicking him out. He seems like a compulsive liar. Don't let him talk you into believing him. Tell him he needs to prove what he's saying. I'm sorry, I know your head has been spinning for a while. I admire you for having handled it so well.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Question - is there ever a situation where a man give a woman $700 to gamble with if he isn't ir doesn't expect to have sex with her?

Him ditching the cruise is a huge red flag. It would be the perfect time to hook up with her with you safely gone for 4 days.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> He's not budging because he is self preservation mode. It took DDay, six years after the fact, for him to admit that he, in fact, did go a to a strip club 6 years ago. Even though I had the credit card statement, he denied it FOR 6 YEARS! Never underestimate how far they will go to protect themselves.


Wow! 6 years and you had it on the cc statement! When he tells such obvious lies I feel like he's got no respect for me and he thinks I'm stupid. I'm not stupid. It's funny because he says "I'm not going to lie and tell you I had feelings for her when I don't" Really??? All he's done is lie for months now and all the sudden he develops a conscious.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Question - is there ever a situation where a man give a woman $700 to gamble with if he isn't ir doesn't expect to have sex with her?
> 
> Him ditching the cruise is a huge red flag. It would be the perfect time to hook up with her with you safely gone for 4 days.


I totally agree....I asked him "so exactly how much pu$$y (i never say that word) does $700 get ya, these days".


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think you've only got part of the story. He has been trickle truthing you, telling you only as much as you've been able to find out for yourself. You think they haven't had sex? I would start to really begin to wrap your mind around the concept. He's following a really common pattern. He doesn't go on a family vacation with you, but takes her to a casino instead just to gamble? Very lame.
> 
> I wouldn't believe him. He's been lying all along and I would bet the farm that he is still lying. Tell him you will consider letting him back if he takes a poly.


I wouldn't put it past him to have sex. I asked him to take a poly and first he said he would. Later after I found out he was lying again, i asked him why he agreed to take a poly if he knew he was lying. He said I thought they would only ask if we had sex. So I asked him to take one again after that and when he said yes, I said good you go at 3pm tomorrow. He back peddled saying how can i trust this test....this is my life in his hands. Excuses excuses.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

mablenc said:


> You have done well kicking him out. He seems like a compulsive liar. Don't let him talk you into believing him. Tell him he needs to prove what he's saying. I'm sorry, I know your head has been spinning for a while. I admire you for having handled it so well.


Thank you! I will stand strong no matter how much it hurts.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

What a liar!
What a woman GM she is!

You have done well, and keep up.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Dont fix your marriage, if he does not come clean! What a liar!
Dont fix your marriage, if he is not remorseful. And you are satisfied with that.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Im thinking he needs individual counseling, did he have the habit of lying this much before or is it the cheating?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I wouldn't put it past him to have sex. I asked him to take a poly and first he said he would. Later after I found out he was lying again, i asked him why he agreed to take a poly if he knew he was lying. He said I thought they would only ask if we had sex. So I asked him to take one again after that and when he said yes, I said good you go at 3pm tomorrow. He back peddled saying how can i trust this test....this is my life in his hands. Excuses excuses.


Lies, lies, and more lies. Go through with the poly. People tend to unload it all before the poly. (There have been a few reports here alone of this happening lately.)

You sound strong, but I know you must be very hurt. Keep him kicked out until you're satisfied that you have the real story (or as close as you'll ever get). If you let him come back before he has really come clean, the rug sweeping can start in earnest and then things will get more difficult for you.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My WW changed the name of her boss to a pet name she had for him. One of the girls at home got on WW's computer once and told her (in front of me) "Hey, WW, Johnny sent you a text." 

I used to like Johnny Cash.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Im thinking he needs individual counseling, did he have the habit of lying this much before or is it the cheating?


I've been in IC for over 10 years and have asked him join me more times than I can count. He finally started going after I found out about his EA. He's been 3 times so far and actually seems to like it. My counselor said that the EA is just symptom of a much bigger problem with my husband. 

No, he was about as honest as they make them before this. There was a major set back for him a month before all of this started. His parents basically disowned him. There's a lot of issues with his family and the business is a family business in which he has equal shares in. He's always been the black sheep and the only one in his family that runs the business and does all they work, while they sit at home and enjoy the profits. We grew apart years ago and had been living like roommates. Partly because of his long, late hours. Almost 5 years ago I had a brief EA with a man that I met on vacation in a different state. I never really hid it or lied about it though. I went to my husband the minute I felt something for the OM and told him I had all these feelings and that I wish they were for him. This woke him up and he made all these positive changes...which lasted for 6 months. 

I even tried to help my husband tell me the truth by saying I know what it's like to have feelings for someone other than our spouse. I get it. I know we had grown apart and the attention she was giving you felt good. I said I've been there and I know what you're going through. I know it's not easy to look at your spouse and tell them you have feelings for someone else...it's not easy. Let me help you through this. He still won't admit it. I just want to bang my head into a wall. Finally I said if I ever betray you like this, you better believe I have feelings for that guy...strong ones too because I would never hurt you like this because I was just bored and wanted to play blackjack.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Re-read this. Sounds like she may have financial and or gambling issues and found an ATM in your husband. That being said, they may have had an PA ... OR... There was no PA but she was stringing him along to get him to pay for things. Either way the situation is deplorable. Is she still an employee? Could you run a credit check on her? Might shed some more light on the money issue.


My husband has a gambling problem but I don't think she does. I'm beyond frustrated right now. He had counseling by himself today and told the counselor the extent of his addiction and how I want him to admit feelings about the girl. The counselor emails me and tells me to basically let it go and stop putting the focus on the girl and focus on the real issue, gambling. That his boundry issues and poor decisions stem from gambling and not from feelings about the girl. I said no, sorry. I can't do that. I want him to own up to his feelings. Blaming his gambling addiction is an easy way out. I will support his counseling, family and work issues and in dealing with his addiction but I will not stay married to him if he can't come with me about her. I'm not asking for much.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

What a classic example of deception, lies and trickle truth. 

I have to hand it to you, flygirl, you worked smartly to uncover the truth. 

Is he still lying? Yeah, probably. 

Did he have sex with this 'accomplice'? Hard to say. But one thing is for sure, he certainly tried to. 

I like the separation avenue. It gives both of you time to think of how best proceed with your lives with no interference.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I get so jealous about the OW. Especially because she's been working for us for so long that she knows a lot about the business. My husband is a workaholic and work is his life.She can relate to him in ways I can't. She "gets" him. Where he has to explain things to me. He was always against me helping out with the business (now I know why...lol) until I found out about her. Now he wants my help and wants me there all the time. I really do enjoy helping out and learning the business but I feel like he made me her little B*tch at work, as she is the one who is teaching me each department. When I tell my husband this he says "she works for you. You are an owner". I feel like she can do no wrong in his eyes. While I know I am much more attractive than her, she is smarter than me. I can even see why my husband would be attracted to her...she's like a male version of him. Work is their life and she gets him. She's funny. My husband gets mad when I compare myself to her because he says there is no comparison. I'm his wife and he loves me but that's what he's supposed to say. If I won't go to work with him on the nights she's there, he texts her before he gets there and sends her home so he doesn't have to be there at the same time she is. In my mind he does this because he can't trust himself to be around her and not do anything wrong or say anything stupid. I keep telling him that i need to see that he can communicate with her in a strictly professional way but he won't. She still texts him about work but he wont reply. He has me reply to her. It's stupid. I feel like he only wants to communicate with her if he can do it the way he wants to. He doesn't say that...those are my words. This is such a mess.


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## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

@flygirl, this is a mess! OW needs to go but he's made that hard to do...she could claim sexual harassment and sue him and the company.

I know where you're coming from because my H also runs the family business but his father is still employed. I am also not allowed to work there and have been ASAHM since 1992. He had a girl working for them that they promoted to a manager. She was young, attractive and flirty. She lavished attention on my H and he ate it up and even strutted around the other male employees like the king of the jungle. It got to the point that my FIL asked him what was going on between them so you can only guess what everyone else was thinking. I didn't know much about her but became concerned after hearing a VM from her to my H that was a little too friendly for employee and employer for me. He claimed nothing was going on, no EA or PA, just flirting. 

Well she decided that they should have a company Xmas party for all the divisions and she put herself in charge of it, how sweet. I went and introduced myself to her and said "you must be A, the work wife" in a smart ass tone. I observed the body language between the two of them and noticed her looking over to see where he was, and most of the time he was by my side. She seemed needy, like she wasn't getting enough attention from him.

The party was wrapping up and a few of us, including her, were going to a bar for a few drinks. She cornered my H in the office area when she thought they were alone, but my FIL and I walked in when she was asking him where this bar was. Now, I just heard someone tell her it was down the street where one of their friends worked and she said okay, so why the need to follow my H to ask him where it was??? They were around a corner by the exit and couldn't see me or my FIL and we just looked at each other like WTF.

We get to the bar and I sit, and watch, and listen. I had her figured out in less then an hour...she was a late bloomer who had now discovered the attention and the power she could have over men. She was indeed needy, seeking male attention. Although several female co-workers were with us, she spent 99% of the time engaged in conversations with the guys there, including my H. I also learned that she flirted with everyone, and I mean any guy she came in contact with (someone watched her flirt with the cleaning guy). I think in my H she saw a possible way up the ladder to a position of power in the company. After the party the VM toned back to a professional level and he put the brakes on the flirting. She has since been let go and my H vows to never employ any more females because if he does, I'm gone.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

bobbieb65 said:


> @flygirl, this is a mess! OW needs to go but he's made that hard to do...she could claim sexual harassment and sue him and the company.
> 
> I know where you're coming from because my H also runs the family business but his father is still employed. I am also not allowed to work there and have been ASAHM since 1992. He had a girl working for them that they promoted to a manager. She was young, attractive and flirty. She lavished attention on my H and he ate it up and even strutted around the other male employees like the king of the jungle. It got to the point that my FIL asked him what was going on between them so you can only guess what everyone else was thinking. I didn't know much about her but became concerned after hearing a VM from her to my H that was a little too friendly for employee and employer for me. He claimed nothing was going on, no EA or PA, just flirting.
> 
> ...


I feel so stupid when I'm at work...like everyone is laughing at me for being so blind and trusting. Didn't that bother you when even your FIL asked if there was something going on? I guess I shouldn't care what they think anyway and his behavior is more of a reflection on him than me but still. This was the first female manager he's had too and it will be his last. I agree, she needs to go but it's too risky right now. I don't want the extra stress of a law suite on top of all of this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

What does he say about his feelings for her? I know that he denies 'those kinds of feelings,' but what exactly does he say his relationship is with her?

The business about not taking the family holiday trip with you and sneaking off with her is extremely damning.

I would insist on the poly. If you are at some point satisfied that he is sincere about reconciling, then she indeed has to go from the workplace. If you are divorcing him, then it doesn't matter, does it?


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## shaung (Mar 18, 2011)

Flygirl said:


> I wouldn't put it past him to have sex. I asked him to take a poly and first he said he would. Later after I found out he was lying again, i asked him why he agreed to take a poly if he knew he was lying. He said I thought they would only ask if we had sex. So I asked him to take one again after that and when he said yes, *I said good you go at 3pm tomorrow. He back peddled saying how can i trust this test*....this is my life in his hands. Excuses excuses.


There's your answer.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Flygirl said:


> My husband has a gambling problem but I don't think she does. I'm bThe counselor emails me and tells me to basically let it go and stop putting the focus on the girl and focus on the real issue, gambling.


Ditch the counselor. If he can't see that this is the biggest threat to your marriage right now then he isn't worth the money.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

We're getting somewhere finally. I got him to admit that he asked her to go because that's who he wanted to spend time with at the time and that he enjoyed the time with her and enjoyed playing blackjack with her and that's why he did it 4 times. That he knew it was wrong. The last time they went was the last week in November and as far as I can tell that is correct. He said it all became to much for him and he started to back off. In December he was having chest pains a lot and high blood pressure. Late Dec. I took him to the ER for off the chart high blood pressure and chest pains and they diagnosed him with an anxiety attack and referred him for further testing. Which led to finding an enlarged heart and medicine for his bp. He says this was a turning point for him and he cut back communication with her and kept it business only. His phone records reflect that because it dropped down to just a few texts a day and no phone calls but it shows it picked up again a few months later for a few weeks and dies down again for a month. Starts back up and then I became aware of it and put a total stop to it. 
Is it common for affairs to stop and start so much? I don't believe they went back to the casino again after the time in November because There is no paper trail. Such as cc charges or casino tax forms except for when I was there with him. 
So I feel like I made some progress but theres still more I am missing.


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## shaung (Mar 18, 2011)

Flygirl said:


> We're getting somewhere finally. I got him to admit that he asked her to go because that's who he wanted to spend time with at the time and that he enjoyed the time with her and enjoyed playing blackjack with her and that's why he did it 4 times. That he knew it was wrong. The last time they went was the last week in November and as far as I can tell that is correct. He said it all became to much for him and he started to back off. In December he was having chest pains a lot and high blood pressure. Late Dec. I took him to the ER for off the chart high blood pressure and chest pains and they diagnosed him with an anxiety attack and referred him for further testing. Which led to finding an enlarged heart and medicine for his bp. He says this was a turning point for him and his only communication with her was business and he cut that back. His phone records reflect that but it shows it picked up again a few months later for a few weeks and dies down again for a month. Starts back up and then I became aware of it and put a total stop to it.
> Is it common for affairs to stop and start so much? I don't believe they went back to the casino again after the time in November because There is no paper trail. Such as cc charges or casino tax forms except for when I was there with him.
> So I feel like I made some progress but theres still more I am missing.


He sounds addicted to her. An addict will try to quit, but the urge always brings them back to the addiction. 

It is my opinion that he told you this in an attempt at appeasing you. Obviously the behavior keeps ebbing and flowing. 

I do want to say I have the utmost respect for the way you handled this and found out what you did. You are one smart cookie.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Why in the world would you hire her back after he fired her?


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> What does he say about his feelings for her? I know that he denies 'those kinds of feelings,' but what exactly does he say his relationship is with her?
> 
> The business about not taking the family holiday trip with you and sneaking off with her is extremely damning.
> 
> I would insist on the poly. If you are at some point satisfied that he is sincere about reconciling, then she indeed has to go from the workplace. If you are divorcing him, then it doesn't matter, does it?


Never really could get a straight answer from him when I asked him to define their relationship. First he said he saw her as one the guys but that didn't sit well with me. She's not a guy in any way, shape or form so don't even try that. I'd ask "well, is she your friend" and he'd say no, I wouldn't call her that. He'd say she's just an employee I asked to play blackjack because I didn't want to play alone and it's late at night. It's not like I can call someone at that hour. She was there so I asked her. Which is bs. Don't go at that time night then. Then it was she had good luck the first time so i thought she would be good luck again. I don't think he has feelings for her now at all. I think the fog had begun lifting even before I found out in late April. I think he still liked the attention in April though. I don't believe she ever had feelings for him. I think she got off on the power she had over him and liked the privileges of being close to the owner and sharing secrets. Most of all, she liked his money. My husband is very socially awkward. He has a hard time making small talk and he gets anxious. He doesn't have many friends because most people just want to take advantage of his position, power and money so he doesn't even bother. He doesn't let many people on the inside. When people ask what he does for a living he tells them he's a janitor. He's an introvert big time. It's hard for me to even imagine him asking the girl to go anywhere with him. He can talk all day long by text but face to face, he clams up...She told me he barely talked so she doesn't even know why he invited her. 

And no, if I got a divorce I wouldn't care if the girl stays or not. She is 3 months pregnant now so I'm just waiting and hoping to god this baby looks nothing like my husband.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

karole said:


> Why in the world would you hire her back after he fired her?


I have several reasons......At the time I still didn't know they went alone. Plus I'm just not like that. I'm not married to her. She owes me nothing. My husband is the one who betrayed me. I felt like firing her would be an easy way out for my husband. Of coarse he just wanted her to go away. If by chance there was nothing going on, I wanted to deal with my jealousy and insecurity by getting to know her and observing their interactions. I was also concerned with a law suit if there was something between them and it would be ugly. I don't want to damage our business any more than it already has been. I also got a lot of information and clues from her that she didn't even realize she was giving me just by knowing what questions to ask and by making her think I knew certain things already. Besides it's a lot easier to act inappropriately with another woman's husband when you don't know that woman. She only knew what my husband wanted her to know. As she got to know me and we bonded, it wasn't so easy for her to keep doing what she was doing. I became a real person. A person that controls if she has a job or not. Trust me, I let her know that I was the only reason she has a job right now. Plus she's good at her job and has been there for 13 years. And she has a toddler, 3 months pregnant, her boyfriend doesn't work and in the process of buying a house. I'm not out to ruin the woman's life....or destroy her. I'm just not like that. I want to understand why it happened, learn from it, and become stronger for it.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

shaung said:


> He sounds addicted to her. An addict will try to quit, but the urge always brings them back to the addiction.
> 
> It is my opinion that he told you this in an attempt at appeasing you. Obviously the behavior keeps ebbing and flowing.
> 
> I do want to say I have the utmost respect for the way you handled this and found out what you did. You are one smart cookie.


Thank you. This has taught me a lot about myself in the process. I'm stronger than I thought I was. Yes, I agree that he sounds addicted. It's really taken me by surprise just how much power this one girl has on him. All of this is so out of character for him so it would only make sense that there has to be something very powerful behind it.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I have several reasons......At the time I still didn't know they went alone. Plus I'm just not like that. I'm not married to her. She owes me nothing. My husband is the one who betrayed me. I felt like firing her would be an easy way out for my husband. Of coarse he just wanted her to go away. If by chance there was nothing going on, I wanted to deal with my jealousy and insecurity by getting to know her and observing their interactions. I was also concerned with a law suit if there was something between them and it would be ugly. I don't want to damage our business any more than it already has been. I also got a lot of information and clues from her that she didn't even realize she was giving me just by knowing what questions to ask and by making her think I knew certain things already. Besides it's a lot easier to act inappropriately with another woman's husband when you don't know that woman. She only knew what my husband wanted her to know. As she got to know me and we bonded, it wasn't so easy for her to keep doing what she was doing. I became a real person. A person that controls if she has a job or not. Trust me, I let her know that I was the only reason she has a job right now. Plus she's good at her job and has been there for 13 years. And she has a toddler, 3 months pregnant, her boyfriend doesn't work and in the process of buying a house. I'm not out to ruin the woman's life....or destroy her. I'm just not like that. I want to understand why it happened, learn from it, and become stronger for it.


My hat is off to you, Flygirl. I couldn't do that, but it makes total sense.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It sounds like you have accepted that he at least wanted to have sex with her and that's what those nights at the casino were about. You don't know if he succeeded, but you're savvy enough to begin to wonder about her pregnancy. Much of this is the male/female divide. I will bet that every man on this thread tells you that his aim was to have sex with her. Women can imagine the 'she just brought me good luck' line, but a man won't. And your H is a man, so I would trust the male judgment on that.

So, let's assume that the very least he did was try very hard to have a physical affair with this OW. Where do you go from there? If it were me, I could only reconcile if I felt relatively secure that I had the truth & I would do the poly. I know they are not highly accurate, but they concentrate the mind of the WS.

Again, if you start to feel like you have as much of the truth as you will get & you want to reconcile, she has to go from the office. Really, it can't work otherwise.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> It sounds like you have accepted that he at least wanted to have sex with her and that's what those nights at the casino were about. You don't know if he succeeded, but you're savvy enough to begin to wonder about her pregnancy. Much of this is the male/female divide. I will bet that every man on this thread tells you that his aim was to have sex with her. Women can imagine the 'she just brought me good luck' line, but a man won't. And your H is a man, so I would trust the male judgment on that.
> 
> So, let's assume that the very least he did was try very hard to have a physical affair with this OW. Where do you go from there? If it were me, I could only reconcile if I felt relatively secure that I had the truth & I would do the poly. I know they are not highly accurate, but they concentrate the mind of the WS.
> 
> Again, if you start to feel like you have as much of the truth as you will get & you want to reconcile, she has to go from the office. Really, it can't work otherwise.


I actually hung up on him when he gave me the "brought me good luck" bull crap. I didn't even bother wasting my breath..just click. I expect more than that from a grown man. I do believe I have most of the story and I believe he's sorry for hurting me. I plan to reconcile as long as he stays in therapy and is actively working on his issues.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

This search for the "why" is a fools errand. It is really simple and always the same:

They did it because all cheaters are selfish and uncaring. PERIOD. There is no other explantion needed. Everything else is excuse.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

KanDo said:


> This search for the "why" is a fools errand. It is really simple and always the same:
> 
> They did it because all cheaters are selfish and uncaring. PERIOD. There is no other explantion needed. Everything else is excuse.



So true. I asked my husband "right before you asked her, didn't you think about how much it would hurt me". He said he knew it was wrong and that it would hurt me but at the time he just didn't care. It hurt to hear but I'd rather be hurt by truth than comforted by lies. Up until a few days ago I never really saw just how selfish my husband really is. It's always about him and what he wants. When I was trying to prove my point that his gambling addiction is not what made him do this, it all became so clear. I told him that his free time is so limited that he does not spend time with people unless it's who he wants to spend time with. He never goes somewhere unless it's a place he wants to go. If he wants something, he gets it and it doesn't matter what he has to spend to get it. One time he wanted a certain table at a show in a club that we went to last minute and the place was slammed so he went up to the people that were sitting at the best table in the front and offered them $100 each to give up their table. They gladly accepted because the table cost them nothing. He just always gets what he wants at any cost. He doesn't do anything unless he wants to and no one can make him do anything. This girl is no different. He did it because he wanted to and that's the bottom line.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

And so now he wants things to be OK with the two of you. But then he may well want something different soon enough and go after that. If you think he can't/won't change, this is what you are accepting when you reconcile?

(I'm not being critical at all - just asking the question. As people's personality traits show through to us, the waters can get very muddy & sorting things out can be difficult and confusing.)

As far as the 'hurting' thing goes, I completely agree with the previous poster. They want what they want and they don't care if they hurt you. They care once they are busted because it hurts THEM to not have you, but most of them don't really see outside of themselves enough to really care about whether they've hurt YOU.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I appreciate people being real with me and pointing things out I obviously missed or don't see. Please tell me if it sounds like I'm making excuses. I've been married to this man for 17 years and together for 19 years and it's the first time he's done anything like this. At this point in my life, I've been with him longer than I've been without him. Yes, he's selfish but it's never involved another woman before. Not even close. This is also the first time he's been in counseling. Am I fooling myself to believe this was an isolated incident?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You can't know the answer to this. If you read around here more, you will see the whole gamut. What is very common is that a BS says that he/she didn't believe the spouse would ever cheat. Then the BS finds out the truth or something close to it & it can be many things: It can be a one-night stand or monthlong EA, a long-term work affair, or long-term, long-distance affair. It can be a serial cheating problem or a drunken one-off.

The point is that at this point you just really don't know. Unfortunately, you're just at the beginning of the process of discovery. So, are you naive to think that this is the first time? Probably, because the chances are that it wasn't, given what he's been doing. BUT, you could be in the percentage where it really is the first time. And there's the rub. You don't know and you can't trust.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks, Alte Dame. I'll keep researching. I think I'll try hoping for the best while preparing myself for the worst.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

You handled this situation like a pro. You got some good advice. I found TAM in late 2012, was already 1.5 years into the madness. I wanted to say you never needed TAM to find out what to do, you did it naturally. But, now that you are here, don't make any rash decisions about taking him back. I made that mistake, going against my deal breakers and took WSExH back too soon. It has been a nightmarish maze. I see a light at the end of the tunnel only recently but it has more to do with me than him or the survival of our marriage. 

If you love him you have to be willing to lose him. I urge you to follow through up to a possibility of bluffing a divorce. You don't know if the child is or isn't his. Splitting assets may release a full confession. That woman can be set up for fire, any owner/ manager knows that, refer to your policies & procedures manuals - employee handbook included and if there are none, get some written by an expert within the next 3 months, 3 more months to legit fire because you would have gathered the evidence and that's perfect timing for her due date/proof of paternity. You need to have a camera system installed in your work spaces also, since it is a night operation. 

I am not telling you what to do, but I don't see your being in a "safe" place for reconciliation with him until 6 months from now. You must be careful of going into a BS fog. You aren't trying to destroy her life btw, but inappropriate behaviors call for survival of the fittest conditions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Calibre12 said:


> You handled this situation like a pro. You got some good advice. I found TAM in late 2012, was already 1.5 years into the madness. I wanted to say you never needed TAM to find out what to do, you did it naturally. But, now that you are here, don't make any rash decisions about taking him back. I made that mistake, going against my deal breakers and took WSExH back too soon. It has been a nightmarish maze. I see a light at the end of the tunnel only recently but it has more to do with me than him or the survival of our marriage.
> 
> If you love him you have to be willing to lose him. I urge you to follow through up to a possibility of bluffing a divorce. You don't know if the child is or isn't his. Splitting assets may release a full confession. That woman can be set up for fire, any owner/ manager knows that, refer to your policies & procedures manuals - employee handbook included and if there are none, get some written by an expert within the next 3 months, 3 more months to legit fire because you would have gathered the evidence and that's perfect timing for her due date/proof of paternity. You need to have a camera system installed in your work spaces also, since it is a night operation.
> 
> ...


Thanks! There are camera's everywhere. Even in the parking lot  I also have them all over my house too and can watch both places online. By the time I found out several months had gone by and any evidence had long been recorded over. I never checked before because I trusted him but I check now. Plus I have a GPS on his phone and ipad.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> Thanks! There are camera's everywhere. Even in the parking lot  I also have them all over my house too and can watch both places online. By the time I found out several months had gone by and any evidence had long been recorded over. I never checked before because I trusted him but I check now. Plus I have a GPS on his phone and ipad.


Excellent! Trust me, there is no employee in the universe that has every "i" dotted and every "t" crossed - My bosses have taught me that in the wonderful world of office politics 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Calibre12 said:


> Excellent! Trust me, there is no employee in the universe that has every "i" dotted and every "t" crossed - My bosses have taught me that in the wonderful world of office politics
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've put a lot of thought into my decision to keep her employed and I think I made a mistake. I'm really struggling at work now every time she's there. I shouldn't feel this way when it's our company. I get angry at my husband every time we see her there now. It's not helping me heal at all. It just stirs things up in my head. They are both behaving themselves and it's not like they are doing anything to make me so angry and emotional (not anymore anyway). It's me. It's my thoughts. I think too much. I need to let it go and keeping her around only makes it harder for me to do.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I can't believe how much this has destroyed my self esteem! I was never jealous before he did this to me. I'm so miserable right now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If you read the experts on recovering from affairs, they will tell you that there has to be no contact. In your case, since it's your business, it means she has to go. People here have been saying that because it is a well-known and well-tested bit of advice.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Your ridding her must be viewed as a company move, non-contingent on your emotional states. All managers go through that "fire" of guilt, fairness and taking the food from someone's table. Once you pass through the first one, the rest are a breeze. Here is how you reconcile it: "She will find another job". Simply. You have to treat your business as a separate entity from yourself. 

Anyone with her moral compass has other business behavior non-conducive to the productivity of your company. A liar, is a cheater, is a thief and all the associated paraphernalia. One can only keep up appearances for so long before reverting to defaults. Trust that. Time is on your side to move precisely and wisely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Great advice....thank you, Calibre12.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I can't believe how much this has destroyed my self esteem! I was never jealous before he did this to me. I'm so miserable right now.


I'm kinda in the same place. Well you may as well use the anger and frustration to get some things done.

The jealousy is like fear, you don't have to have it.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm paranoid. The past few days I feel like they are still communicating but he's just hiding it. I have no proof. I've taken all our company cell phones that are still active and hid them. She has texted him a few times every day but thats just to report problems or numbers. He will not respond to her at all. Which is strange because she's the GM and he just totally ignores her now. I guess thats why I think something is up. His bill doesnt show any contact either. Maybe I'm being paranoid. I hate this feeling!!


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Flygirl said:


> I'm paranoid. The past few days I feel like they are still communicating but he's just hiding it. I have no proof. I've taken all our company cell phones that are still active and hid them. She has texted him a few times every day but thats just to report problems or numbers. He will not respond to her at all. Which is strange because she's the GM and he just totally ignores her now. I guess thats why I think something is up. His bill doesnt show any contact either. Maybe I'm being paranoid. I hate this feeling!!


His actions have rendered her ineffective as a GM. If he can't maintain a normal business relationship with her, which he patently can't, she needs to go. You should lay down the law.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I'm paranoid. The past few days I feel like they are still communicating but he's just hiding it. I have no proof. I've taken all our company cell phones that are still active and hid them. *She has texted him a few times every day but thats just to report problems or numbers. He will not respond to her at all. Which is strange because she's the GM and he just totally ignores her now.* I guess thats why I think something is up. His bill doesnt show any contact either. Maybe I'm being paranoid. I hate *this feeling*!!


You are not paranoid, it feels like that but it's not paranoia (not accurate, false signals).
No way he can ignore GM, those numbers have to be dealt somehow, whether face to face or by avenues you are not aware of.
This "feeling" is your gut screaming he's hiding at plain sight.
I don't know whether their relationship is now "just" professional or not but the fact he ignores those texts means nothing; it's not strange, it's impossible. Now way he's ignoring his bussiness.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Maybe you need to take over the handling of those numbers. 

Get him and her farther apart.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Maybe you need to take over the handling of those numbers.
> 
> Get him and her farther apart.


Actually a few days ago he did text her and tell her to have a certain male text him the numbers for now on. Which it should have been like that from day one because she has to go get the numbers from this male employee just to text them to my husband. I think it was just an excuse to contact each other. after he told her, She asked if she was getting fired again and then said she knew she probably wouldn't get a response to that question. And he didn't respond unless they are communicating in a way I don't know about. Twice she has sent the numbers at the start of shift anyway. Not sure if it was out of habit or just to get to me. I asked my husband why he thinks she would send it still and he said he had idea. He asked me if I wanted him to resend the same text to her to remind her again and I said only if she does it again. She does still text if there is a problem. He hasn't been responding to the problems. I asked him why and he says she tells him about the problem and if he has questions, he'll text/call the person with the problem instead of going through her. Where as before he would tell her what to do and she'd take care of it. Occasionally he will ask me to text her for him with a question. I usually use his phone to do it so she thinks its him but sometimes I will use my phone and she knows its me. I feel like she's trying to think of reasons to text now to try to get him to reply or to annoy me. She does text me with problems from certain departments, which has helped cut down the communication between her and my husband but anything broken/mechanical or financial has to go to my husband. I told my husband that the next mistake she makes, we can fire her. I'm done being nice. Either way, I'm just having trouble accepting that they went from the level of contact they were to now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's possible that he has cut this way down, but if they are typical, it won't last. You have to be vigilant, and especially, you have to get her out of there.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I told my husband that the next mistake she makes, we can fire her. I'm done being nice. Either way, I'm just having trouble accepting that they went from the level of contact they were to now.


Be sure you document things as better as you can and talk to a specialized lawyer before the actual firing. Do this the right way, don't let it backfire.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

We had a really good day together last weekend. We went to the family farm and went 4 wheeling and got all muddy. Then cleaned up as much as we could and went to a restaurant. We were laughing and joking all day. Then a text comes from her as we are finishing up dinner. It was 100% business related text and he didn't even respond but it was like someone instantly flipped a switch in my head. My husband kept saying "are you ok, you got really quiet all the sudden". I didnt want to spoil the day so I was trying to hide it. I suck at that. Total strangers can tell by looking at me when something is wrong. I just kept saying I was fine. He kept pushing me to tell him on the drive home so I finally told him that I was thinking about what he did after her name popped up on his phone at dinner. I asked him a few questions about it like why did you handle it like this etc. His new response to almost all my questions is "I was wrong. I did a really bad thing. I hurt you really bad. There's no excuse for it. I'm so sorry and if it takes the rest of my life to make it up to you, that's what I'll do". We've established that he's sorry. I get that and appreciate it. I even believe it but what I want is an answer to my questions. Why is that so hard? He thinks if he answers me it will turn into a fight.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Do you see him firing this woman?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> We had a really good day together last weekend. We went to the family farm and went 4 wheeling and got all muddy. Then cleaned up as much as we could and went to a restaurant. We were laughing and joking all day. Then a text comes from her as we are finishing up dinner. It was 100% business related text and he didn't even respond but it was like someone instantly flipped a switch in my head. My husband kept saying "are you ok, you got really quiet all the sudden". I didnt want to spoil the day so I was trying to hide it. I suck at that. Total strangers can tell by looking at me when something is wrong. I just kept saying I was fine. He kept pushing me to tell him on the drive home so I finally told him that I was thinking about what he did after her name popped up on his phone at dinner. I asked him a few questions about it like why did you handle it like this etc. His new response to almost all my questions is "I was wrong. I did a really bad thing. I hurt you really bad. There's no excuse for it. I'm so sorry and if it takes the rest of my life to make it up to you, that's what I'll do". We've established that he's sorry. I get that and appreciate it. I even believe it but what I want is an answer to my questions. Why is that so hard? He thinks if he answers me it will turn into a fight.


Flygirl...I know you want the question "why?" answered...it plagued me more than all the other questions I had. But one thing I discovered was that sometimes people make bad decisions or have bad judgement and the why isn't really going to help you much. Just thought I would mention to you that sometimes it is not as much help as you would like it to be. So be sure not to put to much stock in it...in case it turns out that his "why" doesn't have the substance your looking for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Do you see him firing this woman?


He would love to fire her but I stop him. I'm afraid of her going after him for sexual harassment or something. That would be so humiliating to me. And a lawsuit would not just affect us, it would affect his entire family because it's a family owned business. I told him your suggestion about speaking to a lawyer and documenting everything, as well as not firing her for a personal reason. So that's the plan now. We just have to wait for her to mess up. She's very reliable so we'll never get her on something easy.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Flygirl...I know you want the question "why?" answered...it plagued me more than all the other questions I had. But one thing I discovered was that sometimes people make bad decisions or have bad judgement and the why isn't really going to help you much. Just thought I would mention to you that sometimes it is not as much help as you would like it to be. So be sure not to put to much stock in it...in case it turns out that his "why" doesn't have the substance your looking for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If there was one thing I could change about myself it would be that. I've always had the need to understand why people do the things they do. I lived next to a library as a child and spent hours there every day. By the age of 12 I was obsessed with reading Books by Sigmond Freud and carl jung. Half of it I was too young to understand but my point is, it's part of my personality. I'm just fascinated with human behavior and the way the brain works. I usually have no problem accepting someone else's perception of why. But you're right, his why's never have the substance I'm looking for. I don't know if it's because I see his why as a reflection for the way he values me or if it's because I can't trust him so I don't believe his reasons why. I just think he's misleading me or trying to say whatever will make him not look so bad. It's hard for me to let go but I have to figure out a way to accept that I will never know why. I get anxiety just saying that.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

The answers to "why" are never what you want to hear. And most likely they are something you have already figured out, especially if you're into psychology (which could be great help to us TAMers at times, indeed). You may imagine a worse answer than the real one, but either way, it's hard to get closure. 

I never asked my first wife why she cheated on me. I just divorced her. But we were in our 20s. Here, many years later, my fWW doesn't need to give me a reason, although she did, and it wasn't any better than the one I had made up in my mind. For her it was "habit" and/or "obligation" and for me it's because she didn't give a sh!t about me. She hated me at the time. That's MY answer. 

So neither one is really good, neither one is probably right. Only God knows the truth because only God can do anything about any of it. 

As the monkey told Simba in Lion King, "It doesn't matter, it's in the past!" And as much as I wish the past was farther away, it's not yet. But it will be. As will yours.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Keep holding that "handle"...You will be just fine. If it's not one thing, person or event, it's another. It is the life that teaches us about trust...Trust no one but thyself, your guardian angels and the creator of all...Still a lot considering; that trusting another human being is the lesson to unlearn.


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