# Paid Sex



## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

This is my situation: early 40's, great family (including a sweet and caring wife), over educated, smart, successful, fit, and good looking. I have it all. But I am bored. Particularly in the bedroom. I have already tried it all (toys, talk, porn, asked for counseling, blah, blah, blah...). I really think I have hit my wife's boundaries (in terms of her libido and things she is comfortable with) and honestly do not want to push her beyond where we are. By the way, my wife grew up in a very conservative environment and her willingness to try new things is really almost non-existent (nope, no BJs for me... ever). At this point she seems quite happy with the super plain vanilla sex life and truly has no desire to spice anything up (and I feel kind of selfish insisting... and after years of trying I know nothing is going to change anyway).

I cope the way most other guys do: a bit of online porn and the rare random fantasy chat with a stranger. Just enough stimulation to keep me sane, curious, and entertained.

And of course I have found myself looking at other women... and I know I could find someone if I wanted to (never had problems finding girlfriends or bed mates when I was single). I did my share of dating and had my share of not-so-conservative girlfriends. I do know what I am missing. But I don't want to hurt anyone with the potential fallout from an affair.

By the way, I have never cheated and my intentions of ever getting a divorce are really zero. 

So here is my question to all of you: what about paid sex?

I mention it because I travel to a country where escort services are legal, the girls only practice super safe sex, and the girls are actually very good looking professionals with a huge repertoire of services. One friend of mine there told me it was quite similar to getting a massage or going to a spa in the US. I have a hard time doing it thought (in addition to the cheating part it probably has to do with the shame that is attached to having to pay for sex in our culture). FWIW... I don't think I would ever call an escort service or hire a prostitute in this country. It is just I really start feeling like "when in Rome do as Romans do..." particularly in my situation.... so very tempting. Is our own cultural baggage with respect to sex that is keeping us from a simple solution to mismatched sex drives in otherwise perfectly happy marriages? 

Thanks for the input!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't think the only choices are boring and cheating. There has to be something in between.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Sex whether it be free or bought, is cheating. And that isn't going to solve your problem. It will just add more problems, and take you to the "Coping with Infidelity" forum section.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Why not ask your wife if she minds if you indulge in these paid sex transactions...? If this is such a simple solution for the two of you, I'm sure she won't mind one bit. At least give her a choice in the matter. That would be the right thing to do.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

One thing, most married guys don't have random fantasy chat with women online... You've already cheated on your wife in my book.

Secondly, paid sex is cheating regardless of cultural difference.

Quit trying to justify cheating on your wife and divorce her.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, and by the way, you just may up your chance of getting divorced to 100% likelihood, with what you've got in mind.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Just because it is legal elsewhere doesn't give you carte blanche to betray your wife and marriage. Your vows were to your wife, not the laws of an other country. Your post is simply and attempt to rationalize your desire to have sex outside your marriage. Would your wife think it is OK to "do as the Romans do"? I doubt it. And don't let the "safe sex" fool you. Prostitutes having sex with a dozen or more clients a day is in no way safe sex. They don't get tested after every bang. Sorry you have an incompatibility issue in your sex life with your spouse. Look around the forum, many of us do but don't choose to cheat.


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

CandieGirl.... actually asking my wife about it would probably be quite selfish on my part since the only thing it would do is to hurt her (I know she would say no). Every person's sex life has to components: part you share with your partner, and a private part you keep to yourself (yep, there are things about our own sexuality are are best kept from own our partners). Just because your partner doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean you can't do it (obviously as long as you don't hurt them or hurt yourself). Do we really need to tell our partners about things that will not hurt you or them?

The bottom line is that I doubt I will ever do it... it is just that such services seems like a plausible alternative in dealing with unsatisfied sexual needs in in those cultures (just like toys, porn, and sex therapists are used by people in our culture to help with their sex lives... people in other places have figured out professional sex providers can also come in handy... by the way... in many places the use of sex toys, porn, or sex therapy are frowned upon and probably put you in jail).


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## light rain (Mar 1, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> This is my situation: early 40's, great family (including a sweet and caring wife), over educated, smart, successful, fit, and good looking. I have it all. But I am bored.


Is a little bit of strange on the side worth more than your wife and family?

When your wife discovers your cheating, and comes to this forum for support, everyone here is going to tell her to dumb your sorry ass. And you're going lose your beautiful wife and family.

Just keep working with your wife to meet each others needs. I wish you the best of luck with your efforts.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry Zoltar. What you're proposing is cowardly. You don't have the sack to confront your wife or leave her so you want permission to cheat behind her back. Nobody here is going to say that's ok. You have many options at your disposal. You can leave your wife. You can tell her ahead of time that you're going to go outside the marriage because of her prudish ways. You can do the work on yourself required to change her ways.

But to lead her to believe everything is fine and then cheat in secret is wrong. It's being less than a real man. Like I said, it's cowardly.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I respectfully disagree; it would probably be the most selfless thing you could do for her...at least talk to her and tell her how you're feeling about your sex life, and what you're considering doing. Yes, it will hurt her, but so will going with a prostitute, unless you're one of those who never gets caught. But don't bank on that...once you do the deed (if you ever do) your wife will probably pick up on it somehow; most people do, when faced with a cheating partner. Check around the site a bit, and you'll see tons of posts from people who 'had a gut feeling' or 'noticed a few red flags'. ...

I'm Canadian; we're pretty loose up here with our rules although I hear the Dutch are even looser  Glad we can't get thrown in the klink for sex toys and porn...!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Zoltar said:


> Just because your partner doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean you can't do it (obviously as long as you don't hurt them or hurt yourself).


You can do anything you want. If it is legal, nobody will stop you. That's not the question here. The question is whether it is moral. You made a vow to your wife not to seek sex outside your marriage. So, visiting a prostitute would be breaking your vow. And that's immoral.



Zoltar said:


> Do we really need to tell our partners about things that will not hurt you or them?


If you're talking about breaking your marriage vows, then I think you should give advance warning. People's psyches are nearly destroyed every day by adultery. And I've never heard of a cheater who didn't firmly believe that he didn't have all his bases covered as far as his wife finding out. But you would be amazed at how many ways the truth has of finding daylight.



Zoltar said:


> people in other places have figured out professional sex providers can also come in handy... by the way... in many places the use of sex toys, porn, or sex therapy are frowned upon and probably put you in jail).


Maybe there is a reason why your wife did not marry a man from one of those cultures.

In some cultures, obese women are considered very attractive. Should this give your wife license to gain 200 pounds?

In some cultures, women marry several men. Should this give your wife license to add more men to your family?

I think you would be best served by dealing with your problems in this culture. Although, given that you have stated that your status quo is preferable to divorce, your problems are likely here to stay.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

I mean this in the most respectful way possible, but, have you ever considered your wife just might be bored with you? Sometimes the old bag of tricks just doesn't work. Sure, to other women you might be something fancy but to a woman you have been with for a while that has seen you in your not-so-fancy moments, maybe she needs some excitement from you as well? Maybe if you tried switching your tactics up and tried to impress her, her tune might change? Just a thought!

To answer your question, no, paying for sex will not help the matter. You pay for sex once and it will only spin out of control, not to mention, REALLY hurt your wife in the process. Then you will be heading for potential divorce and lose all of the good things you actually *do* have. For what? Paid sex with a stranger who doesn't care about you in the least bit? 

And no, most men do not have sex talk with strangers. If I found out my husband were doing such a thing I would consider it cheating.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

827Aug said:


> Sex whether it be free or bought, is cheating. And that isn't going to solve your problem. It will just add more problems, and take you to the "Coping with Infidelity" forum section.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

This is the wrong forum for "please justify my cheating" posts.


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

kl84: Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think I might have misspoken when I talked about "fantasy talk"... in many ways that is exactly what I am doing here... talking about an imaginary prostitute in a nameless country with people I should assume are Russian teenagers trying to steal my credit card numbers... lol... by the way.. is your name Igor?

I am quite surprised by most of the other responses. People seem very quick to make a moral judgement and use the word "divorce." Like dealing with the Taliban ready to chop a family in bits just because it is someone has been judged to be immoral.

People: dissolving a family is a really big deal!!

My whole point is that many times we fail to see how relative all these judgements are. To most people here is is perfectly ok for the prude wife to get naked for a paid massage from some masseur stud dude with the only objective of relaxing while, at the same time, they are ready to dissolve a family just because some utterly sexually frustrated husband paid for a hand job while on a business trip. Geee.

I know, I know... I am guilty of that too... I have given my wife gift cards for massages at a spa... but would probably never have the cojones to pay for a BJ. At least I am fully aware that for other people such things are ok. Not my job to judge them.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

As you are Zoltar, you should be careful about what you wish for. It may come true in a Big way.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> kl84: Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think I might have misspoken when I talked about "fantasy talk"... in many ways that is exactly what I am doing here... talking about an imaginary prostitute in a nameless country with people I should assume are Russian teenagers trying to steal my credit card numbers... lol... by the way.. is your name Igor?
> 
> I am quite surprised by most of the other responses. People seem very quick to make a moral judgement and use the word "divorce." Like dealing with the Taliban ready to chop a family in bits just because it is someone has been judged to be immoral.
> 
> ...


I imagine a lot of men have tossed the idea around but wouldn't admit it. It's "going through with it" that would be a huge problem and I imagine, if you really do have a good wife and good relationship with her, the guilt you will experience will KILL you and make whatever service you get seem soooooooo not worth it. It really just isn't worth it. And think.....what if you had NO idea that your wife didn't think you were romantic enough.....or flirtatious enough.....or whatever else. What if she didn't think she was connecting with you on an emotional level....maybe she mentioned it a few times but you didn't think much of it.....and she decided that since she wasn't being fulfilled, she started having an emotional affair with a guy who could please her in a way that you couldn't. Imagine her sneaking around to talk to this guy. Imagine when she has sex with you, she's wishing you were him......that sort of thing. Women do it. Women have needs that often don't get met and end up in emotional affairs because it's easier to get it out of a stranger than their husband. Not saying it's right, it's not.....but it happens. So what i'm saying here is to communicate your needs to your wife and ask her if there are things that you could be doing, but aren't. You don't have to make her feel like she's not good enough or spout off demands, just voice your concerns and your genuine desire to come to a resolution.....and if there is anything she needs that you aren't handling, put in an effort to fulfill her needs as well.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

You are chopping up your own family by cheating ... aka an EA or several as you pointed out and trying to justify having a physical affair. You are indeed being selfish by being secretive and hiding things from your wife. Your playing her for a fool and making her go on living life like a clueless idiot per say when you do this. You are betraying her in the worst way possible right now OP and as workingonme said... your taking a cowards way out. There is no secrecy in a committed relationship... especially a marriage. 


Workingonme has had the same issue you do but he did not cheat. Instead he chose to work and work and work some more on his sex life with his wife and ill be honest... some of the hang ups he has had with his wife I thought were completely idiotic and silly... (no offense working lol) but he worked through them. What your doing now is stabbing your wife in the back OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> CandieGirl.... actually asking my wife about it would probably be quite selfish on my part since the only thing it would do is to hurt her (I know she would say no). Every person's sex life has to components: part you share with your partner, and a private part you keep to yourself (yep, there are things about our own sexuality are are best kept from own our partners). Just because your partner doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean you can't do it (obviously as long as you don't hurt them or hurt yourself). Do we really need to tell our partners about things that will not hurt you or them?
> 
> The bottom line is that I doubt I will ever do it... it is just that such services seems like a plausible alternative in dealing with unsatisfied sexual needs in in those cultures (just like toys, porn, and sex therapists are used by people in our culture to help with their sex lives... people in other places have figured out professional sex providers can also come in handy... by the way... in many places the use of sex toys, porn, or sex therapy are frowned upon and probably put you in jail).


Zoltar, your completely asking for permission to think this is okay. It's not and very few are going to act like it's a good thing.

Since you know your wife would not like it, that should weigh heavily in your decision. If you would not like for your wife to get banged while you're on trips then that should also weigh heavily in the decision.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Zoltar said:


> This is my situation: early 40's, great family (including a sweet and caring wife), over educated, smart, successful, fit, and good looking. I have it all.


One so gifted should be able to come up with a better solution.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

How could one so smart be so dum?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Diolay said:


> How could one so smart be so dum?


I think Zoltar feels ENTITLED to have a better sex life that his marriage provides. This solution can only bring trouble.


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

"Imagine when she has sex with you, she's wishing you were him......that sort of thing. Women do it. Women have needs that often don't get met and end up in emotional affairs because it's easier to get it out of a stranger than their husband. Not saying it's right, it's not.....but it happens."


lol... most women -and men- do on occasion think of other people while in the sack... i think that that is perfectly normal and actually quite healthy. Personally, I do not feel a bit threatened by that! As a matter of fact it probably enriches a healthy sex life. A huge part of sex is all the fantasy around it (even if it involves other people in your partners' brain). 

The worst partner -and not just in bed- is someone who puts a chain around his/her mind.

I see where you are going with the effects in the bedroom of emotionally disconnected couples. Unloved and abused people do fall in love with others more easily, and those people are much more likely to end up having affairs (real or emotional) that does threaten whole families. I really don't see that happening in my situation. But I'll ask again (I do to talk to my wife all the time about all kinds of things). But I also think that, in some very happy and loving couples, there is a genuine disconnect in sex drives and boundaries that can only be bridged to a point. The gap is usually filled with the tools we probably all know (porn, toys) and, in some places, with paid sex. But to me it is now clear that that is not an acceptable tool for many on this board.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> actually asking my wife about it would probably be quite selfish on my part since the only thing it would do is to hurt her (I know she would say no).


And.... having sex with someone else is less selfish... how? You said that if you were to mention it, it would hurt her... which means she wouldn't like it...she would say no because it would be hurtful to her right? There's the answer you were looking for.



Zoltar said:


> Every person's sex life has to components: part you share with your partner, and a private part you keep to yourself (yep, there are things about our own sexuality are are best kept from own our partners).


I guess my marriage is odd then...we don't have secrets in our sex life. He knows what I like, I know what he likes. We know each other's fantasies, as well as our physical limitations. There is NOTHING about our sexuality that we keep from each other.



Zoltar said:


> Just because your partner doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean you can't do it (obviously as long as you don't hurt them or hurt yourself). Do we really need to tell our partners about things that will not hurt you or them?


So, she can disagree with it, but it's ok for you to do it anyway? You clarified it "as long as you don't hurt them"...well, above, you said it would hurt her. So, no, it would not be ok to do this because, as you said, it would hurt her. There is no way to justify this as something that would not hurt her.

But, hey, you know you will cheat on her if you want to. I just don't understand why you thought you would get positive responses to urge you to cheat...truly mind boggling.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> "Imagine when she has sex with you, she's wishing you were him......that sort of thing. Women do it. Women have needs that often don't get met and end up in emotional affairs because it's easier to get it out of a stranger than their husband. Not saying it's right, it's not.....but it happens."
> 
> 
> lol... most women -and men- do on occasion think of other people while in the sack... i think that that is perfectly normal and actually quite healthy. Personally, I do not feel a bit threatened by that! As a matter of fact it probably enriches a healthy sex life. A huge part of sex is all the fantasy around it (even if it involves other people in your partners' brain).
> ...


No, I don't just mean fantasizing about *anyone*, but literally fantasize about the guy she is cheating on you with LOL. Sorry:-/


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> But to me it is now clear that that is not an acceptable tool for many on this board.


I'm sure your wife would give you a worse response than the ones you are getting here. 

IMO, it's about morals, honestly. If you could kill a man in secret and get away with it, would you do it? If you could rob a bank and not get caught, would you do that? The things you do when you think no one will ever find out are the things that truly define your character. Is this how you define yourself? One who sneaks behind his wife's back, the one you claim you love and wouldn't want to hurt, and *pay* for sex? I find paying for sex quite repulsive for single folk, being married and paying just takes it to a whole new level. I'm really not trying to insult you here, this is just my view. 

I think if you really set your wants/needs aside, remove the frustration and really ask yourself the question: "Would it be ok to pay for sex if my wife would never find out?", then you will have the answer you are looking for. If the answer is NO, then you are just beyond frustrated and need to find a healthy way to release those frustrations. If the answer is YES, that it is ok, then I stand by my reasoning that it defines what kind of person you are, with no regards to any sort of good qualities you may have.....Just my two cents!


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

kl84 said:


> I imagine a lot of men have tossed the idea around but wouldn't admit it. It's "going through with it" that would be a huge problem and I imagine, if you really do have a good wife and good relationship with her, the guilt you will experience will KILL you and make whatever service you get seem soooooooo not worth it. It really just isn't worth it. And think.....what if you had NO idea that your wife didn't think you were romantic enough.....or flirtatious enough.....or whatever else. What if she didn't think she was connecting with you on an emotional level....maybe she mentioned it a few times but you didn't think much of it.....and she decided that since she wasn't being fulfilled, she started having an emotional affair with a guy who could please her in a way that you couldn't. Imagine her sneaking around to talk to this guy. Imagine when she has sex with you, she's wishing you were him......that sort of thing. Women do it. Women have needs that often don't get met and end up in emotional affairs because it's easier to get it out of a stranger than their husband. Not saying it's right, it's not.....but it happens. So what i'm saying here is to communicate your needs to your wife and ask her if there are things that you could be doing, but aren't. You don't have to make her feel like she's not good enough or spout off demands, just voice your concerns and your genuine desire to come to a resolution.....and if there is anything she needs that you aren't handling, put in an effort to fulfill her needs as well.





kl84 said:


> No, I don't just mean fantasizing about *anyone*, but literally fantasize about the guy she is cheating on you with LOL. Sorry:-/



I guess it all depends on how you define "cheating"... to be honest I don't think there is anything wrong with my wife having a temporary imaginary crush on someone... and if that helps her in the bedroom with me... well.. I am all for it... see... the thing is that we are not machines... we all have hormones and moods and good days and bad days and we are wired to look around... particularly at "attractive" people... (yep, sex does in fact sell!!).... and it is ok to look and even to imagine... in my book it is ok for my wife to look around or to be looked at... I will not put a burka on her!!!... the whole thing on an emotional affair is a tricky discussion.... one thing is "fantasy talk" with some stranger that is likely to be 10 yrs older and 50 lbs heavier that whatever they say they are (and bold and married and a deadbeat)... and something else is to fall in love with someone and neglect your family... and there there is the whole spectrum in between.... not sure any of it being "cheating" but more like emotional neglect


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

kl84 said:


> I'm sure your wife would give you a worse response than the ones you are getting here.
> 
> IMO, it's about morals, honestly. If you could kill a man in secret and get away with it, would you do it? If you could rob a bank and not get caught, would you do that? The things you do when you think no one will ever find out are the things that truly define your character. Is this how you define yourself? One who sneaks behind his wife's back, the one you claim you love and wouldn't want to hurt, and *pay* for sex? I find paying for sex quite repulsive for single folk, being married and paying just takes it to a whole new level. I'm really not trying to insult you here, this is just my view.
> 
> I think if you really set your wants/needs aside, remove the frustration and really ask yourself the question: "Would it be ok to pay for sex if my wife would never find out?", then you will have the answer you are looking for. If the answer is NO, then you are just beyond frustrated and need to find a healthy way to release those frustrations. If the answer is YES, that it is ok, then I stand by my reasoning that it defines what kind of person you are, with no regards to any sort of good qualities you may have.....Just my two cents!




That was an awesome answer. Thanks.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

It's only acceptable if it's something you BOTH have agreed on. Only then can you call it a "tool" in your marriage.

This "what she don't know won't hurt her" mentality isn't healthy for a relationship and is absolutely unfair and wrong. And one way or another it gets found out. It may not be for 10 years but it eventually comes out and it will hurt your family.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well I guess I'm just wired differently because I don't go looking around... nor do I have EA's disguised as "fantasy talks". Hell I don't fantasize about any other man either. My spouse is my eye candy, my fantasy, and my one and only desire. Like he would say.... you can call a **** a duck, truck, train, ect but in the end its still just that... a ****. Your fancy little names to disguise your cheating do not change the fact that you are indeed cheating. If you seriously want to screw around with other women then be honest with your wife and see if she would be up for an open marriage. Keep in mind... she is free to hop on other men with this arrangement as well. Stop playing her for a fool. She deserves to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree. It's fine to lie to your wife about what you are doing, break your vows, and have sex with strangers, provided you also pay money for it.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't know what country you're traveling to have this "safe" sex with legal prostitutes. But it's quite possible these women are victims of human trafficking. We just had training at our workplace on this matter as many here travel internationally for work. It's not just places like Thailand which have girls/women who have been trafficked. Just think about that aspect. If you go through with it, you'll be using some woman who has likely been raped, taken from her family, and made to sleep with MANY men each day. There's nothing romantic or loving in it for them.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> .......
> 
> I see where you are going with the effects in the bedroom of emotionally disconnected couples. Unloved and abused people do fall in love with others more easily, and those people are much more likely to end up having affairs (real or emotional) that does threaten whole families. I really don't see that happening in my situation. But I'll ask again (I do to talk to my wife all the time about all kinds of things). *But I also think that, in some very happy and loving couples, there is a genuine disconnect in sex drives and boundaries that can only be bridged to a point. The gap is usually filled with the tools we probably all know (porn, toys) and, in some places, with paid sex. But to me it is now clear that that is not an acceptable tool for many on this board.*


You really are not looking for advice, you want to be validated which isn't going to happen as what you plan on doing is morally wrong.

TBH I think your best option is divorce unless you can have a very honest discussion with your wife and work together to find a happy place for both of you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, imagine that while you're on your trip or at work, your wife is being plowed by another man (or two or three). She's eagerly giving each of them oral sex. She's got her legs in the air and screaming like she's dying as they're doing to her everything that is humanly possible. If the image bugs you, don't do it to her.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

You should never have to pay for it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

These prostitutes are nice looking and disease free. Well, there ya go! What else do you need to know? Maybe that they were sold to those brothels? Maybe that they are somebody's daughter and they had real dreams of the future. Those dreams didn't include being a prostitute. Maybe that while you fantasize and objectify women as one-dimensional sex tools, you're missing their most interesting and valuable parts. Maybe you're ignoring a living, breathing human being in the next room. You don't have to pay her. Your money won't end up funding organized crime or terrorists or perpetuating child sexual slavery around the world. Americans are prudish in that we object to slavery, pedophilia, and kidnapping. If some adult woman has other decent options but simply prefers to be a sex worker, that's her choice and more power to her. In far too many instances, especially overseas, that isn't the case. Most are there because they were outrighted sold or forced into the business due to overwhelming poverty. There's a lot more to consider than just some guy with a little money wanting to get a nut.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Don't confuse fantasy or crushes with an actual affair and yes sex with a prostitute is PA albeit for only one night or day.

Zoltar, you're trying to rationalize something that's not rational. That's why we're all saying it's a bad idea. Some responses more eloquent that others.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Also, wouldn't she wonder where the money is going? I know I would wonder... if money disappeared for no apparent reason? Yea, that would raise a red flag too.


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## StrangerInTheAlps (Jul 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Also, wouldn't she wonder where the money is going? I know I would wonder... if money disappeared for no apparent reason? Yea, that would raise a red flag too.


It's probably getting itemized as "Entertainment" on the business travel expense form.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Even if you paid someone to have sex with you, it would still be an affair no matter how you look at it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

StrangerInTheAlps said:


> It's probably getting itemized as "Entertainment" on the business travel expense form.


Likely another case of blind trust. Zoltar's wife probably doesn't watch his spending. I just want to shake people and tell them to wake up when they don't pay attention.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Zoltar, glad you came here because I think you're getting a big dose from the good peeps of TAM that are basically saying, "You are justifying what you want even though you know what you want is both selfish and wrong!"

The fact that everyone is in unison is so RARE so take that as a BIG wake up call. In fact, not sure I've ever been privy to it before!

If your wife knew you thought about these things she might be more willing to listen to you and hear you out and reconsider her thoughts. It's very unfair that you write her off without even attempting.

I wish SA would chime in here because she, too, was very religious and struggled with issues regarding her faith and ideas of sexuality, but has overcome them specifically because she loves her husband (and seemed to get a large dose of testosterone years into her marriage) and recognizes the early on neglect her husband's sexual needs faced because of it.

Now by no means are you anything like SA's husband (he's a gem of understanding, pleasing and tolerance) but perhaps she can give you a few pointers on how to have an open conversation with your wife to try and have your needs met better *within *the relationship.

You read like a smart guy who has it all but longs for more. Find that more with your wife and you really will have it all. * Continue to look for it outside of your relationship and you risk all that you have. * I can't put it any clearer than that.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Zoltar, glad you came here because I think you're getting a big dose from the good peeps of TAM that are basically saying, "You are justifying what you want even though you know what you want is both selfish and wrong!"
> 
> The fact that everyone is in unison is so RARE so take that as a BIG wake up call. In fact, not sure I've ever been privy to it before!
> 
> ...


:iagree: Trenton, when you use words like privy, it makes me swoon....lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> :iagree: Trenton, when you use words like privy, it makes me swoon....lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sister from another Mister!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Ok, imagine that while you're on your trip or at work, your wife is being plowed by another man (or two or three). She's eagerly giving each of them oral sex. She's got her legs in the air and screaming like she's dying as they're doing to her everything that is humanly possible. If the image bugs you, don't do it to her.


didn't you read his post as long as he doesnt find out (and she pays for it) it's ok 

Every person's sex life has to components: part you share with your partner, and a private part you keep to yourself (yep, there are things about our own sexuality are are best kept from own our partners). Just because your partner doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean you can't do it (obviously as long as you don't hurt them or hurt yourself). Do we really need to tell our partners about things that will not hurt you or them?



so he should be cool with it


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Maybe he could keep a secret from his wife but how would you propose that he deceive himself? What'd it be worth to celebrate your 50th anniversary and know it in your heart that for the entire time you were a husband, you were actually 100% true? You weren't a poser, but actually what you purported to be, every day? What's it worth to not carry guilt or worry? I figure it's worth a whole lot more than a quickie romp with a prostitute.


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## 99RedBalloons (Aug 16, 2012)

If you go to a hooker then you also have on top of that the fact that you now have a dirty little secret from your wife. So there is lying in your marriage. Not good. And also, you don't know where those hookers have been! Sure, they may not have any STDs (unlikely) but even if that were true, most of them have drug addictions and thus have blood-borne viruses like HIV and Hep C.


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

Seems like you were bored and frustated. And you said you have tried marriage counseling, how did it fare? No changes at all?
Even if it would break your marriage apart, being honest is always the best route.
My wife told me that I wasn't her best sex partner. Although it does hurt me so much, I still appreciated that she told me the truth.
I maybe not her best sex partner, I maybe not her best looking bf, or anything else. I could live with that as long as she is honest with me, and I know that she honestly love me very much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Zoltar said:


> I am quite surprised by most of the other responses. People seem very quick to make a moral judgement and use the word "divorce." Like dealing with the Taliban ready to chop a family in bits just because it is someone has been judged to be immoral.
> 
> People: dissolving a family is a really big deal!!


Yes, it is. What you fail to see is, so is adultery. Most betrayed spouses are destroyed by the discovery of adultery. They will never again trust members of the opposite sex as completely as they trusted their disloyal spouses. Some of them will never be able to have another serious relationship.

If you are determined to cheat on your wife, then the best way to do that, for your wife's sake, is to divorce your wife and then go have your orgasms. Your wife will still be hurt, but your assertion that you never cheated on her will provide her some comfort.



Zoltar said:


> My whole point is that many times we fail to see how relative all these judgements are. To most people here is is perfectly ok for the prude wife to get naked for a paid massage from some masseur stud dude with the only objective of relaxing while, at the same time, they are ready to dissolve a family just because some utterly sexually frustrated husband paid for a hand job while on a business trip. Geee.
> 
> I know, I know... I am guilty of that too... I have given my wife gift cards for massages at a spa... but would probably never have the cojones to pay for a BJ. At least I am fully aware that for other people such things are ok. Not my job to judge them.


This logical fallacy is called, "false equivalence." The obvious difference here is that a masseuse, or a gynecologist, has a legitimate reason for seeing your wife naked that doesn't involve betraying your wedding vows. A hooker has no such legitimate reason.

Also, we can all agree that many cultures do many things that we don't engage in. It doesn't necessarily make those practices wrong for everyone, just wrong for us. If a Somali woman expects her husband to take many wives, then she isn't betrayed when he does. I'm sure your wife has a different expectation of you. And you've gone so far as to promise her that you will remain faithful to her. I doubt it will give her much comfort, when she discovers your betrayal, to know that men in other cultures engage in the same behavior.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If some adult woman has other decent options but simply prefers to be a sex worker, that's her choice and more power to her. In far too many instances, especially overseas, that isn't the case. Most are there because they were outrighted sold or forced into the business due to overwhelming poverty.


Obviously, slavery is reprehensible. However, I don't think a woman choosing prostitution to escape poverty is in the same league as slavery. While I certainly don't want my daughter to be a prostitute, I feel uncomfortable telling a woman that she shouldn't have the right to make good money because I disagree with the morals of her profession.

To put the issue in American terms, if a 20 year-old woman can make $100k a year from prostitution, or $20k from flipping burgers, I don't feel right telling her that she has to flip burgers.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Obviously, slavery is reprehensible. However, I don't think a woman choosing prostitution to escape poverty is in the same league as slavery. While I certainly don't want my daughter to be a prostitute, I feel uncomfortable telling a woman that she shouldn't have the right to make good money because I disagree with the morals of her profession.
> 
> To put the issue in American terms, if a 20 year-old woman can make $100k a year from prostitution, or $20k from flipping burgers, I don't feel right telling her that she has to flip burgers.


I think you missed the point of that post. These women she is talking about didn't voluntarily go into prostitution because of poverty. There are places where families will sell their daughters. That was not their choice. Or instances like that movie Taken. That does happen.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

There are countries where more married men practice this form of release than don't. Most commentators on this forum are indoctrinated into the berserk idea that you have to either give up on sex or keep re-marrying until you find a person who matches you sexually. Or, worse yet, that there is always a happy middle ground and everyone can be adjusted to up/down to it with some endless counseling. I'd say: think really hard about it, but what you're proposing is an option.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There may be a small number of prostitutes who are living their fondest dream. I'd wager that 99% aren't. The average price to actually buy a human being in this world is about $90.00 and over 85% are sold into some form of sexual slavery. I'll play along with your fantasy, though. Let's say "Pretty Woman" makes $100K a year. If that's her take, her handlers are getting at least $500K. How much of that $500K ends up purchasing kids? Financing other aspects of organized crime and terrorism? People are being bought and sold every day (mostly kids) specifically because men pay for sex. No sex market would result in almost no slave market. I don't advocate telling an adult woman she can't sell her body. The real offender in that equation is the man who buys (or rents) her. Why wouldn't you want your daughter in this honorable profession? Maybe because it's demeaning? Maybe because it's a great way to end up murdered? Maybe because she's a human being who deserves to experience real love and not be purchased like a piece of meat. I've been a cop over 30 years and have met a bunch of prostitutes, in the states and overseas. It's a sad profession and it's perpetuated by customers who believe they are somehow morally superior to the hooker, the pimp, and the kidnapper. These men pay the bills for all three groups and guarantee the perpetuation of the business. If I were tasked with wiping out prostitution in a given city, I would leave the prostitutes and pimps alone and jail the Johns. As long as the market exists, a supply will be provided.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If I were tasked with wiping out prostitution in a given city, I would leave the prostitutes and pimps alone and jail the Johns. As long as the market exists, a supply will be provided.


Unfortunately there will always be a demand. No amount of arresting johns, pimps or prostitutes will ever destroy this industry. The only option we have is to legalise and regulate to try to protect people and to kill the people trafficking trade. 

Just like the prohibition on alcohol the only thing that we achieve by prohibiting prostition is to make criminals rich.


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

Zoltar - I wouldn't do it.

I found out my husband was getting erotic massages when he was travelling for work. It has runined by life in a lot of ways which are too numerous to even begin to explain.

I saw an email where he was making an appointment. That is how I found out.

One more thing I feel happens when people ask these questions, is that they have already done what they are asking about, and want to try to justify it to ease their guilt.

Is this true for you? I know you won't answer honestly on this forum, but I have received some personal messages from men on this forum who fit this profile.

They were thinking of doing something, and turns out they already had many times before, but want someone to say it's ok.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I think you missed the point of that post. These women she is talking about didn't voluntarily go into prostitution because of poverty. There are places where families will sell their daughters. That was not their choice. Or instances like that movie Taken. That does happen.


I was focusing on the statement that women were, "forced into the business due to overwhelming poverty."

Yes, human trafficking does happen. And it is tragic. But, the statistics that do exist are overblown to further advocacy. I doubt that a significant percentage of prostitutes in developed countries are slaves.

But, that's irrelevant to my statement that prostitutes by choice should be free to make their choice.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

moco82 said:


> There are countries where more married men practice this form of release than don't.


It has been established that what occurs in other cultures has no bearing on a marriage in this culture.



moco82 said:


> Most commentators on this forum are indoctrinated into the berserk idea that you have to either give up on sex or keep re-marrying until you find a person who matches you sexually. Or, worse yet, that there is always a happy middle ground and everyone can be adjusted to up/down to it with some endless counseling. I'd say: think really hard about it, but what you're proposing is an option.


I am only indoctrinated into the berserk idea of honoring your commitment. If you commit yourself to remaining faithful to your wife, then unfaithfulness is obviously breaking your commitment. And I don't care if other men in other cultures don't share the same level of commitment. If you don't want to commit to a woman, then don't.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> There may be a small number of prostitutes who are living their fondest dream. I'd wager that 99% aren't.


That is a straw man argument. I haven't said that some prostitutes are living their dreams. I have simply said that some women would rather make good money by selling themselves than make minimum wage at a menial job. And the starkness of the choice increases in undeveloped countries.

A woman in the third-world may make $5 a day from prostitution, or $0.25 a day from farming. One is enough to live on and the other isn't. Should we condemn the woman to starve so that we can feel reassured that she isn't participating in anything immoral?



unbelievable said:


> I'll play along with your fantasy, though. Let's say "Pretty Woman" makes $100K a year. If that's her take, her handlers are getting at least $500K. How much of that $500K ends up purchasing kids? Financing other aspects of organized crime and terrorism?


Who knows? But, money is fungible and you can go crazy playing the games you're involved in. I assume you pay federal income tax. Our government ships some of that money overseas. How much of that money ends up in the hands of terrorists, dictators, and warlords? A fair amount. Does that mean paying your taxes is immoral?



unbelievable said:


> People are being bought and sold every day (mostly kids) specifically because men pay for sex. No sex market would result in almost no slave market.


Yes. And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass hopping. But frogs don't have wings. And men are going to pay for sex.



unbelievable said:


> I don't advocate telling an adult woman she can't sell her body. The real offender in that equation is the man who buys (or rents) her.


You want women to be free to sell sex, but want to prohibit men from buying sex? Do you honestly see a difference?

Look at it this way. Choice 1 is to outlaw liquor stores. Choice 2 is to legalize liquor stores, but to outlaw people from buying anything from liquor stores. Practically, those two choices are equivalent.



unbelievable said:


> Why wouldn't you want your daughter in this honorable profession? Maybe because it's demeaning? Maybe because it's a great way to end up murdered? Maybe because she's a human being who deserves to experience real love and not be purchased like a piece of meat.


All of the above. Look, I don't want my daughter to do many things which are, or should be, legal. I don't want my daughter to live in New York City. She would be more likely to be murdered than if she lived in our small town. Does that mean that other people shouldn't be allowed to live in New York City? No.

I'm not arguing that prostitution is great. But, I'm recognizing that, for some women, it's their best choice. There are no women who are choosing between being a prostitute and being a cosmetic surgeon. They're choosing between being a prostitute or a job that pays a subsistence wage, or less.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

PHT, you must subscribe to the originalist interpretation of the Constitution as well?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

moco82 said:


> PHT, you must subscribe to the originalist interpretation of the Constitution as well?


Yes.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I think it's silly to assume that your wife wouldn't know. Of course she would know. Even if she didn't have supporting facts, it would show through in your mannerisms and bearing, even if you think you could hide it, you can't. People have a sixth sense, and it's highly tuned for things like their partner having had sex with someone else. Your basic assumption that your wife wouldn't know seems to be based on you thinking that she doesn't know about your dalliances into online stuff. But of course, she does, at some level, how could she not...and so your sex life is not going to get any better, in fact, it will get worse, because your mind is not in your body. It's elsewhere, and your body wants to follow. You have a basic problem because you are attempting to live a dichotomous life. You cannot control your mind, and so you think the solution to this is to send your body after it. The problem is, you're in a marriage, your mind and your body don't really belong entirely to you. Where you go, your wife goes. And where your wife goes, you go. So if you want to make her go nuts, get ready for the trip.


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## shenox (Sep 12, 2012)

Cherry said:


> One thing, most married guys don't have random fantasy chat with women online... You've already cheated on your wife in my book.
> 
> Secondly, paid sex is cheating regardless of cultural difference.
> 
> Quit trying to justify cheating on your wife and divorce her.





Amplexor said:


> Just because it is legal elsewhere doesn't give you carte blanche to betray your wife and marriage. Your vows were to your wife, not the laws of an other country. Your post is simply and attempt to rationalize your desire to have sex outside your marriage. Would your wife think it is OK to "do as the Romans do"? I doubt it. And don't let the "safe sex" fool you. Prostitutes having sex with a dozen or more clients a day is in no way safe sex. They don't get tested after every bang. Sorry you have an incompatibility issue in your sex life with your spouse. Look around the forum, many of us do but don't choose to cheat.


True and agreed. :smthumbup:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are three losers in this scenario. There's the sex "worker", the wife who has to share a body that's rightfully her's with whomever's offering tricks for the lowest price. There's the husband who wastes untold hours of his life and spends family money training his mind to view a 3d world hooker as the equal or maybe superior of his wife. He's training his mind to view half of all human beings as merely sex tools. Is this practice likely to make him a better person? A better husband? Enhance his credibility? Strengthen his marriage? After his roll in the rack with the hooker, is he going to feel better about himself, appreciate his wife more? Will he feel less lonely? Even in the best possible light, it's just a bandaid, a cheap, temporary fix that allows him to ignore the hard work of actually fixing a real relationship.


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## Jeapordy (Aug 12, 2012)

How many of the men on this forum have ever had an erotic massage? There are still a bunch of those places out there, so someone must be going there. How about a high contact lap dance? They can get pretty steamy. Should every man who has been to a strip club tell their wives about everything that happened there? I know there are a few lucky guys that can tell their wifes everything, but outside of TAM, in the real world, that doesn't happen. Strip clubs and massage parlors are just the rements of brothels, which used to be legal in America, and are legal in many parts of Europe, South America, and East-Asia. 
Men have a biological need to have multiple partners. American society and religion have taught us to fight that need. But if you wife doesn't meet your sexual needs, that doesn't mean you have to throw out your entire marriage, it means you have to make a choice .
OP, it sounds to me like you have a significant need that is not being met by your wife. We can't all have perfect marriages. Sometimes everything about a marriage is perfect except the sex. If you want to go to a place with prostitution is legal to fulfill an itch, that could actually save your marriage. If you feel that you have a boring sex life, your resentment towards his wife will grow, as you see yourself getting older and your best days behind you. Going to a prostitute will allow you to stop obsessing about what your wife won't do. 
I believe that after you go to a prostitute and have your needs fulfilled, you will be disappointed by the experience because it will be emotionless. You will be happy to get your itch scratched, but you will then always feel guilty about what you have done.
That's the real message I want to get across.
In my opinion, going to a prostitute is about fulfilling a need that is not being fulfilled. If you don't go to a prostitute, will you think about it and obsess over it, maybe for the rest of your life. That might cause you to resent your wife even more. Resentment can be extremely toxic and manifest itself in lots of bad ways. But if you do go to a prostitute, you might have to live with the guilt of doing this for the rest of your life. Can you keep this a secret forever? Will you be able to lie to her if she ever asks you if you have ever cheated on her? 
The best answer is to get your wife to meet your needs, but if you can't do that, you will have to decide if it is better to live out your life wondering what it would be like to do (insert sex acts), or if it would be better to get it out of your system and live with a secret that you can never discuss with her.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Jeapordy said:


> How many of the men on this forum have ever had an erotic massage? There are still a bunch of those places out there, so someone must be going there. How about a high contact lap dance? They can get pretty steamy. Should every man who has been to a strip club tell their wives about everything that happened there? I know there are a few lucky guys that can tell their wifes everything, but outside of TAM, in the real world, that doesn't happen. Strip clubs and massage parlors are just the rements of brothels, which used to be legal in America, and are legal in many parts of Europe, South America, and East-Asia.
> Men have a biological need to have multiple partners. American society and religion have taught us to fight that need. But if you wife doesn't meet your sexual needs, that doesn't mean you have to throw out your entire marriage, it means you have to make a choice .
> OP, it sounds to me like you have a significant need that is not being met by your wife. We can't all have perfect marriages. Sometimes everything about a marriage is perfect except the sex. If you want to go to a place with prostitution is legal to fulfill an itch, that could actually save your marriage. If you feel that you have a boring sex life, your resentment towards his wife will grow, as you see yourself getting older and your best days behind you. Going to a prostitute will allow you to stop obsessing about what your wife won't do.
> I believe that after you go to a prostitute and have your needs fulfilled, you will be disappointed by the experience because it will be emotionless. You will be happy to get your itch scratched, but you will then always feel guilty about what you have done.
> ...


Oops, I've been corrected! There is one who agrees with you Zoltar!


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Oops, I've been corrected! There is one who agrees with you Zoltar!


I think the count is 2 now. LOL


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## ljl (Sep 6, 2012)

Have you ever considered asking your wife if she is getting satisfaction from your sex life? I sell romance products to women and have found over the years that they women that only want "vanilla" do so because they aren't getting anything out of it....


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jeapordy said:


> How many of the men on this forum have ever had an erotic massage? There are still a bunch of those places out there, so someone must be going there. How about a high contact lap dance? They can get pretty steamy. Should every man who has been to a strip club tell their wives about everything that happened there? I know there are a few lucky guys that can tell their wifes everything, but outside of TAM, in the real world, that doesn't happen. Strip clubs and massage parlors are just the rements of brothels, which used to be legal in America, and are legal in many parts of Europe, South America, and East-Asia.
> Men have a biological need to have multiple partners. American society and religion have taught us to fight that need. But if you wife doesn't meet your sexual needs, that doesn't mean you have to throw out your entire marriage, it means you have to make a choice .
> OP, it sounds to me like you have a significant need that is not being met by your wife. We can't all have perfect marriages. Sometimes everything about a marriage is perfect except the sex. If you want to go to a place with prostitution is legal to fulfill an itch, that could actually save your marriage. If you feel that you have a boring sex life, your resentment towards his wife will grow, as you see yourself getting older and your best days behind you. Going to a prostitute will allow you to stop obsessing about what your wife won't do.
> I believe that after you go to a prostitute and have your needs fulfilled, you will be disappointed by the experience because it will be emotionless. You will be happy to get your itch scratched, but you will then always feel guilty about what you have done.
> ...



So, cheat to save your marriage... I thank God my husband doesn't think like that. Wow.... Even at our worst, neither one of us would have gone and had sex with someone else. That is something that would be the undoing of our marriage. 

UFB


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## Jeapordy (Aug 12, 2012)

What about the ladies? None of the ladies on this forum ever go to a male strip club? Male strippers are notorious for getting much more physical with ladies than the female strippers. But no one is condeming women at a bachlorette party. 
I believe there is a big difference between a loveless "transaction" and an EA. 
Depending on how to define "cheating", 50% of married men have cheated on their wives. And I bet that number hasn't changed much in 100 years. 
Two things will happen to men that cheat, they will continue cheating until they are caught (which means they should probably get divorced), or they will be disillusioned by the experience and figure out that their marriage is something special that they need to hold on to. 
People telling the OP that he is scum for even thinking about something that is a powerful biological urge isn't going to change his outlook, it will just change his willingness to discuss it in a forum that is supposed to be offering advice, not righteous condemnation.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

So, OP, the majority opinion is: let this obsession brew and poison your marriage rather than do something to get it out of your system. Tough luck. (Oh yeah, there is divorce and counseling, too. Everyone has counseling on their speed dial.)


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

Jeapordy said:


> What about the ladies? None of the ladies on this forum ever go to a male strip club? Male strippers are notorious for getting much more physical with *ladies than the female strippers. But no one is condeming women at a bachlorette party.
> I believe there is a big difference between a loveless "transaction" and an EA.
> Depending on how to define "cheating", 50% of married men have cheated on their wives. And I bet that number hasn't changed much in 100 years. *Two things will happen to men that cheat, they will continue cheating until they are caught (which means they should probably get divorced), or they will be disillusioned by the experience and figure out that their marriage is something special that they need to hold on to.
> People telling the OP that he is scum for even thinking about something that is a powerful biological urge isn't going to change his outlook, it will just change his willingness to discuss it in a forum that is supposed to be offering advice, not righteous condemnation.


Whether it's and EA or PA, it's cheating. Yeah a BJ at a strip club is cheating. And yeah lap dances can definitely push that boundary too. Male strip clubs? Where? LOL Not in these here parts. Oh and "happy endings" at a massage parlor. yep that is cheating too. If you wanted that clarified.



moco82 said:


> So, OP, the majority opinion is: let this obsession brew and poison your marriage rather than do something to get it out of your system. Tough luck. (Oh yeah, there is divorce and counseling, too. Everyone has counseling on their speed dial.)


It won't "get it out of his system". Oh for like 24hrs. This is part of that entitlement that has been mentioned before. Yeah he may be entitled to sex within his marriage but because she may not be performing a particular way doesn't make it ok to get it elsewhere. If it's that important to him she deserves the choice to stay with him while he goes and "gets it out of his system" or go because she's not ok with it.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

As if fvcking a paid ***** won't poison the marriage? Yeah laughable iff you think it won't. As far as strip clubs.. I never went to one nor do I plan to and bachlorette parties? Ha.. nope... nothing something my SO or I would do. Oooh but its sooo unfair to him? Because he can't have a bachleor party when the time comes? Lmfao uh no. He has done all the going to strip clubs, ect before he met me and its not his thing. Or he got it out of his system... dunno and don't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jeapordy said:


> What about the ladies? None of the ladies on this forum ever go to a male strip club? Male strippers are notorious for getting much more physical with ladies than the female strippers. But no one is condeming women at a bachlorette party.
> I believe there is a big difference between a loveless "transaction" and an EA.
> Depending on how to define "cheating", 50% of married men have cheated on their wives. And I bet that number hasn't changed much in 100 years.
> Two things will happen to men that cheat, they will continue cheating until they are caught (which means they should probably get divorced), or they will be disillusioned by the experience and figure out that their marriage is something special that they need to hold on to.
> People telling the OP that he is scum for even thinking about something that is a powerful biological urge isn't going to change his outlook, it will just change his willingness to discuss it in a forum that is supposed to be offering advice, not righteous condemnation.


Hmmm...so, on a forum that supports marriage, i.e. a monogamous relationship, we were supposed to encourage someone to go out and have sex with someone else? Are you f*cking kidding me? 

And, for the record, you asked what ladies think of male strip clubs? Personally, I find them disgusting. Same with female strip clubs. Again, I thank God my husband isn't the type to ever frequent such establishments, and I do not either.

Oh, and I just love how you used quotes for the word cheating. Newsflash, if you have any form of sex with someone other than your wife, it is cheating, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it. And and EA is cheating as well, even if you merely consider that "cheating".

Unbelievable.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Totally agree.. both are disgusting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

moco82 said:


> So, OP, the majority opinion is: let this obsession brew and poison your marriage rather than do something to get it out of your system. Tough luck. (Oh yeah, there is divorce and counseling, too. Everyone has counseling on their speed dial.)


I guess that would be just as ok as going and fvcking the neighbor, just to "get it out of your system" right? GMAFB


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Male strip clubs? Where? LOL Not in these here parts.


Whoa, where do you live?



> It won't "get it out of his system". Oh for like 24hrs.


If it is indeed for 24 hours, they should get a divorce. Jeapordy described the more likely scenario well.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Whoa, where do you live?


They're non-existent here as well. I live within 50 miles of a couple of large cities and there are none there, either. They aren't as prevalent as you seem to think they are. Sadly, the same can't be said of the other strip clubs. But, as I said, I'm glad those things don't appeal to my husband.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> They're non-existent here as well. I live within 50 miles of a couple of large cities and there are none there, either. They aren't as prevalent as you seem to think they are. Sadly, the same can't be said of the other strip clubs. But, as I said, I'm glad those things don't appeal to my husband.


Exactly..There are 3 female strip clubs and 3 "breastaurants" in my town. There are no male strip clubs. Supply definitely shows who's demanding.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> They're non-existent here as well. I live within 50 miles of a couple of large cities and there are none there, either.


So where do people go for bachelorette parties?


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## Zoltar (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the answers... FYI I have also received a few "Private Messages" from people who have considered the idea but were afraid of posting in here


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

moco82 said:


> So where do people go for bachelorette parties?



Good restaurants and maybe a dance club. OR....they throw a party at home. OR...they throw a wedding shower that includes the bride and groom. I have been to a few of those.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Good restaurants and maybe a dance club. OR....they throw a party at home. OR...they throw a wedding shower that includes the bride and groom. I have been to a few of those.


An almost Leave-It-to-Beaver utopian town  Sounds like a wholesome community for those who prefer that kind of neighborhood.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

moco82 said:


> So where do people go for bachelorette parties?


Seriously? We have bridal showers. I don't go to bachelorette parties. Oh, my mistake, I went to one, before I was married. My mom and aunt had one for my sister and cousin and they hired a stripper. It was a friend of theirs from work and he needed the extra cash. It was a weird experience and am glad I never had to go through it again. 

ONE time, I believe Chippendales came to my hometown, a small town. And they were at a restaurant or something. I wasn't old enough to go at that time, and tbh, I wouldn't have anyway. Like I said, that sort of thing doesn't appeal to me.

As for bachelor parties... my husband didn't go to a strip club. He didn't have strippers. They went bowling. He doesn't do that kind of thing...maybe he's weird, but he gets disgusted by it as well. Yea, I know, you're gonna say I'm delusional, right? LOL that's fine, you can believe whatever you want. I know my husband.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

moco82 said:


> An almost Leave-It-to-Beaver utopian town  Sounds like a wholesome community for those who prefer that kind of neighborhood.


No or there wouldn't be the Hustler Club or the other 2 strip clubs. You sound almost condescending with that comment.

I am like Maricha, male strip clubs aren't as common as you make them.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> Thanks for all the answers... FYI I have also received a few "Private Messages" from people who have considered the idea but were afraid of posting in here


Of course....


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Kudos to you for actually posting and dealing with some harsh opinions OP.  I know it may seem like if she doesn't know it won't hurt her... but to me that is just wrong. Its like stabbing her in the back and playing her for a fool. That's how I see it OP. You have a damn good thing going for you and it seems like your taking it for granted. You should appreciate what you have instead of constantly looking for something better because then you will never be satisfied. That's how I see it anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Maricha, where is the extended conclusion coming from? I personally don't care for strip clubs and went there once in the last five years. No negative or positive feelings, just neutral--about the higher-end clubs, at least. The average strip club is indeed off-putting. (Speaking of nice ones, there is one near DC and the Pentagon that actually is also an amazingly good restaurant, and the two dance stages are not even noticeable when you first walk in.)


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> No or there wouldn't be the Hustler Club or the other 2 strip clubs. You sound almost condescending with that comment.


Not condescending, cities are just like flavors of ice cream or styles of beer: everyone has their own taste.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Maricha, where is the extended conclusion coming from?


I apologize if I misunderstood. I have had people imply that I was crazy for believing my husband that he had no interest in that nonsense, even when I am able to verify that it's true.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Not condescending, cities are just like flavors of ice cream or styles of beer: everyone has their own taste.


Has nothing to do with taste. It's just where I live. I didn't pick the city I live in like a pair of shoes off the rack. It's not like I purposely looked for a city with x amount of strip clubs, bars, restaurants, hotels and casinos. It's the closest larger city to the small hometown that I grew up in.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Maricha, lots of men don't care for strip clubs, perceiving it as pointless teasing while buying overpriced drinks. Though, probably, few are directly disgusted--must depend on the sampling of ones they've been to. The appearance, audience, and aura of establishments vary widely, so you may hit a few on the low end and truly become disgusted.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Has nothing to do with taste. It's just where I live. I didn't pick the city I live in like a pair of shoes off the rack.


Pardon, then! That also must be a taste (for choosing geography). The world is a huge and wonderfully diverse place. I hope I get to sample a few more cities, if not continents, before retiring


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Maricha, lots of men don't care for strip clubs, perceiving it as pointless teasing while buying overpriced drinks. Though, probably, few are directly disgusted--must depend on the sampling of ones they've been to. The appearance, audience, and aura of establishments vary widely, so you may hit a few on the low end and truly become disgusted.


Maybe so... lol my point was that he has zero interest in that, porn, etc. None of it... and I think that's what has many shaking their heads in disbelief lol. Again, verified, so I know it's true.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Zoltar said:


> Thanks for all the answers... FYI I have also received a few "Private Messages" from people who have considered the idea but were afraid of posting in here


Zoltar...the fact that they had to PM you should tell you something.

Men struggle with their sexuality just as women do. If you can't find a beautiful place within your marriage that includes sexual satisfaction and choose to have sex with other women, the life you're living is a lie. 

You need to at least approach your wife and see what she has to say. Be honest with her. Hurt her with the truth before you hurt her with a grave breaking of your vows to her. Let her decide if she doesn't want to explore further with you. 

The outward appearances matter more than the reality and at the end of your lives when you're rocking on the porch and holding her hand...you will have done great injustice to your wife if you've had sex with others and she doesn't know about it. 

The choices you make do define you even if others do not know about those choices and by default we become the sum of our choices.

Decide what you want to be and find a solution for your lust with your wife or give her a chance to leave.


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## Jeapordy (Aug 12, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Zoltar...the fact that they had to PM you should tell you something.


The fact that people had to PM him does tell us something. People are afraid to be honest on this forum because they know that they will get flamed. Many of the posts in this thread are not providing advice in a constructive way. The people PMing him don't want to endure the same ridicule or judgmental opinions.
The whole point of this forum should be open discussion trying to understand the OPs view and provide advice. Don't tell him he shouldn't feel the way he does, offer relevant personal experiences and constructive advice including options and probable outcomes. Saying things like "I can't believe you feel this way, are you f*cking kidding me?". 
What's the point? You act like your trying to bully your way to winning an argument. This isn't an argument, it's a forum to share ideas.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Jeapordy said:


> The fact that people had to PM him does tell us something. People are afraid to be honest on this forum because they know that they will get flamed. Many of the posts in this thread are not providing advice in a constructive way. The people PMing him don't want to endure the same ridicule or judgmental opinions.
> The whole point of this forum should be open discussion trying to understand the OPs view and provide advice. Don't tell him he shouldn't feel the way he does, offer relevant personal experiences and constructive advice including options and probable outcomes. Saying things like "I can't believe you feel this way, are you f*cking kidding me?".
> What's the point? You act like your trying to bully your way to winning an argument. This isn't an argument, it's a forum to share ideas.


I'm curious as to what your constructive advise would be. I don't think anyone said he's wrong for being curious about this, but it would be wrong for him to act on it on many levels.. that's what I got out of this thread. It's cheating anyway you look at it, so what other ideas on the subject should be discussed or how could the responses have been more welcoming (keep in mind this is a pro marriage forum)?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Jeapordy said:


> The fact that people had to PM him does tell us something. People are afraid to be honest on this forum because they know that they will get flamed. Many of the posts in this thread are not providing advice in a constructive way. The people PMing him don't want to endure the same ridicule or judgmental opinions.
> The whole point of this forum should be open discussion trying to understand the OPs view and provide advice. Don't tell him he shouldn't feel the way he does, offer relevant personal experiences and constructive advice including options and probable outcomes. Saying things like "I can't believe you feel this way, are you f*cking kidding me?".
> What's the point? You act like your trying to bully your way to winning an argument. This isn't an argument, it's a forum to share ideas.


I will come out and say that I have no moral issue with sex work, so long as it is consensual. I do have an issue with the deception because I think that deception of this type is bad for marriage. If there is a sexual issue, that should be discussed openly and a mutually agreed solution found. If that solution can't be found then compromise or divorce are the only options.

The reason why I was critical in my first post was that the OP came across as narcissistic and selfish, it had nothing to do with sex work.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Zoltar said:


> This is my situation: early 40's, great family (including a sweet and caring wife), over educated, smart, successful, fit, and good looking. I have it all. But I am bored. Particularly in the bedroom. I have already tried it all (toys, talk, porn, asked for counseling, blah, blah, blah...). I really think I have hit my wife's boundaries (in terms of her libido and things she is comfortable with) and honestly do not want to push her beyond where we are. By the way, my wife grew up in a very conservative environment and her willingness to try new things is really almost non-existent (nope, no BJs for me... ever). At this point she seems quite happy with the super plain vanilla sex life and truly has no desire to spice anything up (and I feel kind of selfish insisting... and after years of trying I know nothing is going to change anyway).
> 
> I cope the way most other guys do: a bit of online porn and the rare random fantasy chat with a stranger. Just enough stimulation to keep me sane, curious, and entertained.
> 
> ...


I think around the world the view on fidelity is very different depending on where you are. I understand not wanting to hurt your wife by not mentioning your idea to her.But not telling her is wrong. She might not find out you cheated but YOU will know you cheated and the guilt might tear you apart. It's a slippery slope after that.

my exSO was vanilla.I am not. It was a constant struggle bc I felt ashamed of my needs and was always wondering why i couldn't live with missionary position and gentle,lovey,silly,light hearted love making.

i fantasized and that kept me sane and respectful toward his boundaries.

you have to talk to her. you'll be hurting her no matter what choice you make...if you talk to her,tell her your idea and it hurts her i can tell you the hurt will be a lot less than if you just go and cheat then have her find out. You're hurting bc your needs aren't being met...she needs to hear that and she needs to hear your ideas for fixing the problem so the two of you can work together and come up with something that works for everyone.

if she wants to divorce you bc you are open with her then so be it. i don't think it would come to that unless you actually cheat.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Jeapordy said:


> The fact that people had to PM him does tell us something. People are afraid to be honest on this forum because they know that they will get flamed.


Meh. We're all--or almost all--anonymous. Who cares if some anonymous person out there flames me?

But we should be clear that disagreeing isn't flaming.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Your other thread prompted me to read this one, I will admit I'm curious --- you are quite passionate about this subject.

So --- logically -- what is IT you are seeking from a paid sex partner?
Your opening post speaks that you have tried it all. toys, porn, there isn't much you haven't tried with your wife.

That reads to me like your wife is OPEN about her sexuality. This surprised me. I was expecting to read something along the lines of your wife not being open to trying anything.

But... you've said she has tried it all. 

So I'm curious. What exactly would you get from a stranger that you couldn't get from your wife?

Other than the thrill of being with someone else. ?

I'm not being sarcastic either. Just calling you out.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

The men doing the PM's simply have NO BALLS!
Either that or they know what they are suggesting is just scummy and they are too ashamed to post. 

FFS this is an anonymous forum.

I really really hope that their wives secretly only stay with them for convenience and fu*k the pool boy every Thursday...cause then both parties would deserve each other.

Sadly, more likely the wife loves these pieces of sh!t, has sex with him, washes his clothes and cooks his dinner and thinks her man loves her back.

When really the only thing he loves is his d!ck

How sad.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Took me years of talking to her but my wife finally understood what it was I needed. I needed more than just plain vanilla lovemaking. I do like to make love, I like to fnck too. There is a difference.

We were both raised in conservative Christian homes. I am raising my children in a conservative Christian home. However, sex between a husband and wife does not have to be conservative. It does have to be exclusive of all others though.

My wife always though that good Christian women just don't act that way. After years of talking through this she finally gets it. She is now peeling away the layers of guilt and shame and is now starting to see herself as a sexual being.

Don't take the easy way out, work the problem.


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