# Desperately want to end wife's affair



## Devastated2

I have finally found enough proof to convince myself that my wife is definitely having an affair. She displayed a lot of the signs:

1. I love you, but I'm not in love with you.
2. Complete lack of affection.
3. Complete lack of interest in fixing our marriage (it's all my fault).
4. Almost zero interest in my life at all.
5. Telling me she wants space from me while she figures what she wants out.


I don't want to reveal any of my evidence that I have collected. I know she will take the affair deeper underground and I won't be able to find out what is going on. I am seriously thinking about trying to catch them together at our house when I am out of town for work next.

I would give anything save my marriage and not put our 2 kids through a divorce. However, I refuse to be the third wheel in my marriage.

*Will anyone please tell me what to do to confront her and then rebuliding my marriage? *


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## EleGirl

If you can afford PI, have the PI stake out the house and her and get photos. That might be better than you confronting them and possibly there being a physcial altercation.

Otherwise, tell her you are going out of town when you are not. Then go spend some time at a family or friends house. 

This way you will be around to catch them. Once he's in the house, give them a while and then go into your house. It could get very ugly.

Is he married?

Or you could just confront her alone. Put copies of all of your evidence on the table. Tell her you know and either it stops NOW or she has to leave.

If she leaves, call the OM's (other man) wife and tell her about the affair.. now OM will be too busy trying to save his marriage and he will probably dump your wife. The affair is over at that point.

Under no circumstance do you move out of your home and leave your children.

The first step is to get the affair to end. Until that happens, rebuilding your marriage is not on the table.

You could read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It goes into how to recover your marriage in detail.


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## EleGirl

In order to recover the marriage she has to prove to you that she can be trusted.

She has to agree to no contact with the OM. She has to write a no-contact letter for you to send to the OM.

She has to give you her passwords for all of her computer accounts and her cell phone. IT's a good idea to tell you that you will put a keystroke tracker on the computer.

She has to agree to total transparency because it's the only way you will trust her ever again... she has to prove, over time, that she can be trusted.


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## Devastated2

Thanks for the advice.

The OM has a girlfriend (or at least that is what my wife told me). I don't know this person though.

I don't want her to know my sources because it will be obvious for her how to cover her tracks. I have very incriminating text messages and she thinks I don't know her phone password. She has been extremely protective of her phone for a while, but she finally slipped up.

The face to face confrontation sounds like the best option at this point. I am not looking for a physical confrontation and I will probably have a friend help me with the confrontation. I want my wife to have no excuses and not be able to lie her way out of this.

You are right, the affair has to stop first and that is my first priority. I like the suggestion about emailing all of her facebook family and friends for help. I know that would infuriate her, but I am going to consider it tough love in order to save my marriage.

I know she is still in the "fog" and isn't thinking clearly about her affair. I want to bring her back to reality ASAP.

I will definitely get that book if she is interested in saving our marriage. I have already spent plenty of money on marriage fix it books, which were not working. Now I know why.

I appreciate any and all advice about this. My mind is not thinking clearly at all.


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## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> I don't want to reveal any of my evidence that I have collected.


Exactly what evidence have you collected?



> I know she will take the affair deeper underground and I won't be able to find out what is going on. I am seriously thinking about trying to catch them together at our house when I am out of town for work next.


What makes you think they meet at your house?
I`ve had affairs, no way in hell I`m getting busted with some guys wife in his house/bed.
Very dangerous and not the usual place cheaters meet.



> *Will anyone please tell me what to do to confront her and then rebuliding my marriage? *


She may not want to rebuild.
The advice you`ve gotten so far is on the money but first you have to get her to admit to the infidelity.


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## EleGirl

You should put some effort into finding out who this guy is, where he lives, etc. Find his girlfriend and tell her about the affair.

Tell her family about the affair as well as ask them for help in ending the affair and repairig your marriage. Telling your family is generally a good idea as well.

As for the book.. it gives a lot of ideas about how to end the affair as well. It covers the idea of a no-contact letter an has the basic letter in the book.


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## tacoma

EleGirl said:


> You should put some effort into finding out who this guy is, where he lives, etc. Find his girlfriend and tell her about the affair.
> 
> Tell her family about the affair as well as ask them for help in ending the affair and repairig your marriage. Telling your family is generally a good idea as well.
> 
> As for the book.. it gives a lot of ideas about how to end the affair as well. It covers the idea of a no-contact letter an has the basic letter in the book.


Again great advice but if all he has is text messages she`ll minimize it as best she can.
You know the lengths they`ll go to keep from admitting anything they don`t have to.

Without a smoking gun he`s going to be spun as the crazy jealous husband to anyone he talks to.


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> I have finally found enough proof to convince myself that my wife is definitely having an affair. She displayed a lot of the signs:
> 
> 1. I love you, but I'm not in love with you.
> 2. Complete lack of affection.
> 3. Complete lack of interest in fixing our marriage (it's all my fault).
> 4. Almost zero interest in my life at all.
> 5. Telling me she wants space from me while she figures what she wants out.
> 
> 
> I don't want to reveal any of my evidence that I have collected. I know she will take the affair deeper underground and I won't be able to find out what is going on. I am seriously thinking about trying to catch them together at our house when I am out of town for work next.
> 
> I would give anything save my marriage and not put our 2 kids through a divorce. However, I refuse to be the third wheel in my marriage.
> 
> *Will anyone please tell me what to do to confront her and then rebuliding my marriage? *


You already have all the evidence you need, the only thing you need is to keep your source to determine if she is really remorseful when you confront her.

I wouldn't share any info that you have with her, ANYTHING. If I were in your shoes, and I did something similar in my marriage. I'd tell her, "I know what's going on and if you want to continue, we are getting divorced." Then make her leave. If she wants to get honest with you, you have the info you need and can continue to obtain it as you separate.

I can tell you with 100% certainty if you don't hand her the papers and give her an ultimatum with 100% confidence that it is going to go through, she's going to continue to cake-eat and keep up the affair. She's not going to want to give this guy up, so if you let her continue to cheat, she will. Divorce can sometimes snap the women out of the fog and make them realize they are about to lose their security blanket.

If that doesn't snap her out of it, then she's not going to come back anyway so you might as well end it now.

It's intuitive to your feelings, but to save your marriage, you need to be ready to end it. If she thinks you'll stick around forever, she'll let this guy stick her forever.

Also, to make it more uncomfortable, let the OM's wife or girlfriend know. If he's single, tell his family what's going on. Let her close friends and family know that you want to work it out but not while she's in an affair. That way she'll be getting pressured from all sides to end it.


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## Devastated2

I read her text messages (she told him she wants to have lots of sex very soon), saw the picture of her in her underwear that she sent him and have gps of her at his house. I am convinced.

I know exactly where he lives.

I'm guessing they meet at my house because our kids go to bed at 8 pm and I travel frequently for work. If not, the GPS will tell me where she is.

I am going to tell both our families after I confront her about it.

I want to save my marriage, but if she doesn't I will move on with my life without her.


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## morituri

The best chance to save your marriage is to be willing to end it. I'm serious, you have to accept that you cannot control your wife only yourself. Follow the *The 180 degree rules* and *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559*. Doing so will show your wife that you will no accept being her consolation prize if things don't work out with the OM (other man). Be willing to convey to her the following *and mean it*:

*"Look wife, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with him because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with him and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."*

Your confidence to move on with your life with or without your wife is essential no matter what the outcome of the marriage.


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## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> I read her text messages (she told him she wants to have lots of sex very soon), saw the picture of her in her underwear that she sent him and have gps of her at his house. I am convinced.


That`s enough to convince anyone.
Probably not enough to get her to admit the depth of the affair.

Go ahead and confront but accept that it`s gone physical and do not believe her when she tells you it hasn`t



> I'm guessing they meet at my house because our kids go to bed at 8 pm and I travel frequently for work. If not, the GPS will tell me where she is.


You really think she`d be doing some strange guy in your house (probably your bed) while your kids are sleeping in the next room?
That`s cold, and not too smart.





COguy said:


> I can tell you with 100% certainty if you don't hand her the papers and give her an ultimatum with 100% confidence that it is going to go through, she's going to continue to cake-eat and keep up the affair. She's not going to want to give this guy up, so if you let her continue to cheat, she will. Divorce can sometimes snap the women out of the fog and make them realize they are about to lose their security blanket.


This is a fact.
If I were ever in your shoes my wife would discover I knew about her affair when the process server handed her the divorce papers and not a moment before.

Going nuclear like this is in my experience the best way to snap the wife out of "The Fog" and get her on the straight and narrow quickly.



> If that doesn't snap her out of it, then she's not going to come back anyway so you might as well end it now.


This is an added benefit of serving her papers.
If she doesn`t snap out of it the wheels are already in motion.


Does the OM have a wife/GF?


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## spudster

Listen to all the posters here. Hit your wife hard with sanctions. Drawing up a divorce decree is a good idea. You gotta get mean, mad dog mean with her, as Josie Wales would say. If you show any weakness at all she'll call your bluff and make you look like a chump. Don't be afraid of humiliating her in front of your kids.

I really cannot add anything more than what has been said. If you confront her and her lover face to face then make sure you have a buddy with you when you do it. 

If she wants to leave, let her go. Not like you would have ever stopped her anyway. But do not leave your house for any reason. She is the one who needs to leave. 

I'm sorry you're married to a fool. I hate for this to hapen to anyone.


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## TDSC60

A device similar to a Nanny Cam can record movies and some can be monitored remotely from a laptop or Ipad.


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## EleGirl

TDSC60 said:


> A device similar to a Nanny Cam can record movies and some can be monitored remotely from a laptop or Ipad.


Look up spy cameras on the internet. They have all kinds of cameras built into clock radios, pictures, you name it.


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## the guy

Do not go into the confrontation with the thought *you* want to save the marriage. Is is so important that your W have the perception that you are confident in moving on with out her, and it is *her* that wants to save the marriage.

In my case , it was my indifference and calmness that scared my fWW the most. My W saw that I was moving on with out her and she did the heavy lifting to keep me around.

So when you do confront do not beg, no anger but with a smile on your face ask her to leave if she want to continue this behavior. This statemant alone will show her how confident you are and now it is up to her to fix this.

The point here is, so often the wayward tells the betrayed what they want to hear and manage to cake eat knowing that the betrayed isn't going any were so they continue the afair. In addition with this kind of confidence it *may* push her away, and in that case some waywards have already checked out long ago and you have now forced thier hand to move on and stop blowing smoke up your butt.

My thinking here is that one way or another your W will either be scared straight and truely take the consequences and own her bs or she will finally see that you have manned up and she can no longer manage you as she has before and will move on.

Bottom line is when you do confront, then confront with the confidence that you can loose your marrige and be better then she would ever expect. Its this unexpected behavior of confidence that left my wife second gussing her choices, it was my indiferrence that made her think twice in the fact that I was going to just let her go.


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## Almostrecovered

1) you have enough proof to confront
2) post above is very correct and doesn't get said enough around here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> 1) you have enough proof to confront
> 2) post above is very correct and doesn't get said enough around here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

You have all the info you need. Call his girl friend, he is no doubt just using your wife. Then tell your wife about the affair. You are going out of town but tell her she damn well better not bring that assho!e any where near your kids or house. Tell her you will be talking to a junk yard divorce lawyer as soon as you get back from your business trip. Then ask her if she is going to have a place to stay. DO NOT show anger/emotion. Be strong. If you have to walk away to collect yourself.


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## Complexity

You need to tell her you're going to divorce her if she proceeds to a physical affair.


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## Devastated2

Thanks everyone for the great advice so far.

I wish I knew if he had girlfriend for sure. I would love to reach out to his parents also.

I'm blowing off my work trip and planning to surprise her, hopefully when they are together maybe his house. I'm going to confront/surprise her in the next few days after I speak with an attorney.

The comments about having confidence to tell her that it's over if she waits more than 5 seconds to decide seems spot on. I'm going to have a PI keep an eye out if she leaves the house tonight to see the OM.

I went to see our minister about this issue. He said the divorce fear is a huge reality check also. He gave me the number of a few therapists to talk to. I asked her is she would go with me to a marriage therapist and she said she was too busy and seemed completely uninterested. 

I am so full of emotions it is unreal. She repeatedly lies to me straight in the face. The reason she isn't interested in fixing our marriage is because she is enjoying my financial security and having her fun on the side.

I am still stunned my stay at home wife has become a stray at home wife. I am such a complete idiot.


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## calif_hope

First thing Monday morning is to separate finances, leave little $ in joint account - close credit cards - don't finance her affair!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> Thanks everyone for the great advice so far.
> 
> I wish I knew if he had girlfriend for sure. I would love to reach out to his parents also.
> 
> I'm blowing off my work trip and planning to surprise her, hopefully when they are together maybe his house. I'm going to confront/surprise her in the next few days after I speak with an attorney.
> 
> The comments about having confidence to tell her that it's over if she waits more than 5 seconds to decide seems spot on. I'm going to have a PI keep an eye out if she leaves the house tonight to see the OM.
> 
> I went to see our minister about this issue. He said the divorce fear is a huge reality check also. He gave me the number of a few therapists to talk to. I asked her is she would go with me to a marriage therapist and she said she was too busy and seemed completely uninterested.
> 
> I am so full of emotions it is unreal. She repeatedly lies to me straight in the face. The reason she isn't interested in fixing our marriage is because she is enjoying my financial security and having her fun on the side.
> 
> I am still stunned my stay at home wife has become a stray at home wife. I am such a complete idiot.


Why are you waiting to catch her in the act? What do you want? You know she's cheating...

In all honesty if you want to reconcile it's probably better that she doesn't know everything you know. That way you know she's being honest instead of just reacting to an embarassing situation.

Of course any chick caught in the act is going to say "I'm sorry, I'll work on it." The question is, will she do that if she doesn't think you have proof.

Also, support the idea of separating finances before sh*t goes down. She's not going to work with you at that point.


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## the guy

You are not the idiot, she is and you are the better person, stop letting *her* crap shake your confidence.She is the lost one and the one that doesn't get it. 
You are a good man and she is the broken one that has made the unhealthy choice to trow it all away with her deciet. A stronger women would have told you to pound sand and left....filled for devorce and moved on. but she didn't she took the weak way out and betrayed you, her family and her self for this adultous behavior. She my friend is the idiot, not you.


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## Chaparral

I would be doing my best to get her out of the house tonight and get to the bank before her.


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## Thor

tacoma said:


> What makes you think they meet at your house?
> I`ve had affairs, no way in hell I`m getting busted with some guys wife in his house/bed.
> Very dangerous and not the usual place cheaters meet.


Devastated2, are you a pilot or flight attendant? I personally know 2 pilots who have come home unexpectedly and literally caught their wife in bed with OM. One had small kids, the other had college age kids.


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## Jellybeans

HEED MORITURI'S ADVICE!!!! And tell OM's girlfriend stat!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Find the OMs GF and expose the affair to her. 

Expose the affair to friend and family too. Show it the light of day to everyone who will listen.

Make it humiliating and costly for her to see him and humiliating and costly for him to see her.


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## Devastated2

I wish I could tell the OM's girlfriend. I don't even know if she exists at this point though.

I work in business where travelling is a common part of the job. My schedule is pretty predictable and I always keep her in the loop. She would get pissed if I didn't tell her things like which hotel I was staying at. 

What floors me is that she tried to initiate sex with me? I was shocked because she hasn't been remotely interested i. me for a few weeks. She didn't want to kiss me which confuses the hell out of me. The jacked up thing is that they have been texting each other all day.

I can't wait to surprise the hell out of her this week.


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## warlock07

She suspects that you know and is trying to throw you off the trail.


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## Jellybeans

Can u print out her text messages? Make and keep copies. Call logs too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> What floors me is that she tried to initiate sex with me? I was shocked because she hasn't been remotely interested i. me for a few weeks. She didn't want to kiss me which confuses the hell out of me.


*HUGE RED FLAG WAVING*

*DO NOT HAVE SEX while she is having an affair.*

If her EA has become a PA and she's become pregnant by the OM, then her wanting to have sex with you may be her way to pass the child of as yours.


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## COguy

Yeah and stating the obvious, she could have diseases. If you do the hump nasty make sure you use a rubber.


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## Devastated2

I wasn't dumb enough to take the bait. 

This week is going to turn her world upside down.

I am already planning on cutting her off financially after I confront her. Then it's on to the lawyer's office. 

The advice here seems spot on. I'm going to convince her (and myself) that I will move on without her and my life will be better off.


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## crossbar

Warlock is right. She may be coming on to you because she see's that something is wrong with you. Subconiously, you're not acting right and she's trying to put you at ease. 

If this guy has a FB page, look it up and see if you can view his relationship status. Sometimes they'll list who they're with. Thus, you'll know the girlfriend or at least have a name.


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## Devastated2

It was definitely a surprise for her to initiate sex, especially considering that she didn't want to kiss me for weeks. She hasn't been responding when I have said "I love you" or "I miss you" for a few weeks also. I still don't understand what her motives were. It was so random, basically it was "I'm horny let's have sex." I was trying to talk to her and kiss her. But, she was just saying things like "just shut up", "don't talk", and "I just wanted some sex." 


I checked FB. His info is private. That creep is one step ahead of me. Maybe, I can get my cheating wife to tell me the OM's girlfriend's name when I confront her.


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## Complexity

Bad move having sex with her.


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## spudster

No, I don't believe he had sex with her.


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## Complexity

Ah, sorry my mistake, good move then lol


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## lordmayhem

Affair sex is ALMOST ALWAYS UNPROTECTED SEX. Its part of the thrill of the act.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

get a keylogger on her computer and get her FB password, then you can get to the OM's gf by using her account to look at his FB page


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## Devastated2

I am going to surprise her tonight. She thinks that I am out of town and I am going to just show up tonight after our kids are in bed. I'm basically planning to say this "Wife, I know about your affair otherwise I wouldn't be here. I won't be in an open relationship with you. I'm not going to give you X days, weeks, months for you to make up your mind. If you can't decide now between the other man and me then I will decide for you. You can be with him. I love you and I wish you the best of luck with him." (Thanks Morituri!)

My plan is to get a rental car so I can watch over our house tonight, and hopefully catch the other man there. If not, I'm going to confront her anyway.

I asked her again last night about marriage counseling, and she said that she is too busy. She doesn't know that I know she was texting the other man last night. If she wants to reconcile, I'm sure she can find plenty of time to work on our marriage that she was spending on him.

She keeps her tablet on lock down and has been very protective of it for months since she got it. She says that it is "her's" and "she wants everyone else to leave it alone". 

If she wants to reconcile, then i'm going to tell her that she has to agree to have no contact with the other man. Then, I'm taking her tablet and cell phone with me while I return my rental car just to make sure. When I return there will be keylogger software on both of them.


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## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> .
> 
> She keeps her tablet on lock down and has been very protective of it for months since she got it. She says that it is "her's" and "she wants everyone else to leave it alone".


What kind of tablet are we talking about?
If it's an iPad there is no key logger that can be used on a factory set iPad.

However you can access the sync files from whatever computer she syncs to which is just as good.
If she syncs it to a computer and not just iCloud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

Devastated2 said:


> I will move on without her and my life will be better off.


I fixed it for you. You move on without her. And if by some miracle she actually feels like coming for the ride and being a faithful wife again then you can re-assess the situation and decide if you even want her along for the ride or not.

GL to you this week. BTW, if you do catch them in the act red-handed. You'll never be able to take her back. That image will be burned into your mind for the rest of your life.


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## Devastated2

tacoma said:


> What kind of tablet are we talking about?
> If it's an iPad there is no key logger that can be used on a factory set iPad.
> 
> However you can access the sync files from whatever computer she syncs to which is just as good.
> If she syncs it to a computer and not just iCloud.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it is an iPad. She never syncs it. It's almost like she is good at keeping information from me.


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## Claude Veritas

Get That Cunning Crap Sl *t out of your Home...after baring her ...ASAP...



Soooory on the vocabulary..!!


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## Almostrecovered

If she agrees to R then complete transparency is a must

Right then and there she gives up passwords
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

I agree with cheatinghubby. If her affair has not gone physical yet, don't let it just so you can catch her in the act. You should be staying home to c0ck block the other man.

However, everything else, I support. Tell her to choose now. Also, you have to prepare yourself for the possibility that she will choose the other man. The worst thing you can do is cry, beg, or show weakness. For the time being, you should be super alpha.

Good luck.


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## Initfortheduration

Devestated, you are going into this wrong. You do not go into a negotiation after you have already given away your hand (threat of divorce). To offer her this the moment she is confronted, removes the consequence before she has experienced the negative effects. First off, you need to see if you can get her out of the house, like to visit family or friends (so as not to worry the kids). Then you negotiate. Personally, I would divorce her. Then get her to sign a pre nup before I would even consider reconciliation and remarriage. You don't want to just stop the affair. You want to insure that she is not choosing you as a back up or a security blanket. Stay strong. And DO NOT just toss out the fix before she stews for a while.


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## Devastated2

Well, I confronted my wife. She was speechless.

I told her that she needed to decide now if she wanted to stay with me or not. She just stood there speechless.

I told her that I'm not going to be her second option and that we are done. I told her that I'm not working this week and she might as well go spend some time with him. She was getting her stuff and leaving. 

I started giving our boys a shower. Then I told our 8 year old son. She overheard and got pissed at me and stormed out of the house.

Then, I called her mom, dad, and brothers. I called my family also. I'm going to hit up her Facebook friends tonight.

Tomorrow, I call the divorce attorney. 

Looking back, I probably could have had a better performance (been less emotional and not given her a second chance to decide to stay with me). She told me it was our fault that I haven't paid enough attention to her and made her a priority.

I feel great right now. Having closure is so much better than being in limbo and constantly feeling like I was such a ****ty husband. I prayed before I came in and surprised her for God to close the doors he wants closed and to open the doors that he wants opened.


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## 67flh

great job of manning up..let the fireworks begin!


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## Almostrecovered

How did her family react?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated2

I feel amazing. I haven't felt this good in a while.

I just checked the cell phone logs. They have been talking since she left and have been interrupted by calls from her family.

Does anyone have the link to the sample Facebook message?


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## Devastated2

Almostrecovered said:


> How did her family react?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her family was all very supportive and apologized. I told them that I refuse to be her second option and that I want everything to be a easy for our kids as possible.


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## Allybabe_18

I am glad to see u confronted her finally but my heart hurts for the fact that ur children were present cuz it really should have been between just u & ur wife. 

How did her family react?

My BS also contacted my family immediately & it was hell on me inititially but looking back I deserved every ounce of venom the threw at me for the bad decisions I had made. I hope ur wife realizes what she has done & chooses to start trying to fix her life & all those she has hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustaJerk

...'bout time you did something about it.

You've made it known, you won't be a doormat. Let's see what her next move is.


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## Complexity

This is only a temporary high. You'll need to prepare yourself for the oncoming setting of reality and even more so, the obligatory waterworks after she realises what she's gotten into. Where you take it from there is very important.


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## warlock07

She'll go and fvck him just out of spite. And you shouldn't have told the 8 year old. That was an idiot move




> I told her that I'm not going to be her second option and that we are done. I told her that I'm not working this week and she might as well go spend some time with him. *She was getting her stuff and leaving. *


Was she leaving after you confronted her or after telling your son?


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## lordmayhem

Complexity said:


> This is only a temporary high. You'll need to prepare yourself for the oncoming setting of reality and even more so, the obligatory waterworks after she realises what she's gotten into. Where you take it from there is very important.


:iagree:

Be prepared for the emotional roller coaster. One moment you can't stand the sight of her, the next instance you will feel as though you cant live without her. Go to a doctor and get on meds to help stabilize your emotions if need be. Don't self medicate with alcohol.


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## Eli-Zor

Sample facebook message on page 3

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

warlock07 said:


> She'll go and fvck him just out of spite. And you shouldn't have told the 8 year old. That was an idiot move
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was she leaving after you confronted her or after telling your son?



I disagree his son is not stupid and is aware something is wrong. The truth from the BS is far better than distortions or lies from the wayward or anyone else. At least he is now able to support his son and protect him going forward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

8 is too young. He'll be traumatized by the fights between the parents and his loyalties to them. 8 is the right age to be fvcked by a divorce. Neither too young to forget nor too old to understand. The parents should atleast put a good front before the kid


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## Almostrecovered

I think the 8 year old should be told, but in a much different manner, time and place.


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## Gabriel

I agree with Warlock. That was a knee-jerk reaction done to hurt your wife. 8 is too young. Bad move indeed. You have to do damage control now.


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## Bugz Bunny

Devastated2 said:


> She told me it was our fault that I haven't paid enough attention to her and made her a priority.


Of course it is always somebody elses fault and never WSs fault...

It was your fault for working so that she and your kids can have a nice life and enough money...OMG how selfish she is... 

Whatever happens always remember...The marriage problems are 50/50 but the affair is 100 % her fault...

Good Luck


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## PHTlump

I agree that the son shouldn't have been told yet. But it's done now. Going forward, I would try my best to portray any marital problems as being between you and your wife, having nothing to do with your kids.

At your son's age, his self-image is completely wrapped up in his view of his parents. When you tear down his mother, even if she deserves it, you've just knocked him down several pegs as well.

Read some books or blogs on children in divorce and get some better ideas of how to shield your kids, as much as possible, from the ugliness of what is going on.

Other than that, good for you on manning up to your wife. What I now recommend is spending some time planning for contingencies so you're not caught unaware. If she comes to you crying in a day or two, wanting to reconcile, what will you do? Decide now. If she wants to marry her boyfriend and move in next door so you can be a big, extended family and share child-raising duties, what will you do? Decide now. Try to think of all the contingencies and what your position will be on each.

Good luck.


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> Well, I confronted my wife. She was speechless.
> 
> I told her that she needed to decide now if she wanted to stay with me or not. She just stood there speechless.
> 
> I told her that I'm not going to be her second option and that we are done. I told her that I'm not working this week and she might as well go spend some time with him. She was getting her stuff and leaving.
> 
> I started giving our boys a shower. Then I told our 8 year old son. She overheard and got pissed at me and stormed out of the house.
> 
> Then, I called her mom, dad, and brothers. I called my family also. I'm going to hit up her Facebook friends tonight.
> 
> Tomorrow, I call the divorce attorney.
> 
> Looking back, I probably could have had a better performance (been less emotional and not given her a second chance to decide to stay with me). She told me it was our fault that I haven't paid enough attention to her and made her a priority.
> 
> I feel great right now. Having closure is so much better than being in limbo and constantly feeling like I was such a ****ty husband. I prayed before I came in and surprised her for God to close the doors he wants closed and to open the doors that he wants opened.


As hard as it is, you did the right thing. It sounds dumb, but by not putting up with the behavior, you are doing everything you can to save your marriage. Stay strong and follow through with the actions you have committed to. As her world starts to crumble, she will be forced to realize the consequences of her actions.

Use the time you have to work on yourself and be the best father you can be. If she comes back to you, make sure she is truly remorseful (read up on it) before you even consider taking her back, and also understand that you are not obligated to make a hasty decision, you can take as much time as you need.

The other thing I want to say is, don't listen to her lies about it being your fault. You can and should own 50% of the problems of the marriage up to the affair. But nothing you can do is grounds for cheating, and she must own up to that 100%. The right way to handle it for her would have been what you are doing, stating her boundaries and then divorcing before finding something on the side. I am glad that you are not allowing her to cake eat, and have stood up for yourself.

We all wish we could have said or done things a little differently, but you did the right thing and your heart is in the right place. I'm sure your actions threw her for a loop and she is looking at you in a different light even if she isn't acting like it. That kind of self-respect and confidence is very sexy to women.


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## Chaparral

Don't beat yourself up over the way you handled it. It could have been much worse. Do not assume you are going to go through this with iout making mistakes. It is time for you to start the 180 wheter orr not you end up reconciling or divorcing. The 180 is a plan to take your life back and it works to prepare you for the future.

The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Chaparral

At this point, one of your top priorities is to find out who the OM is and who his wife/girl friend, family, employer is. Then you contact his wife/girlfriend . Since she was texting him last night, it may be that she could not go striaght to his house indicating he may have a partner. In that case your wife is almost certainly a booty call for him, although she thinks he loves her.

If he is in a serious relationship, it is imperative to out him to break up the affair.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Finish putting the hammer down, hard and fast. Don't trickle expose or drag your feet.


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## Eli-Zor

chapparal said:


> At this point, one of your top priorities is to find out who the OM is and who his wife/girl friend, family, employer is. Then you contact his wife/girlfriend . Since she was texting him last night, it may be that she could not go striaght to his house indicating he may have a partner. In that case your wife is almost certainly a booty call for him, although she thinks he loves her.
> 
> If he is in a serious relationship, it is imperative to out him to break up the affair.


Agree, at the moment he is a name hiding away and destroying you marriage. Track his friends and family down and expose his predatory behaviour .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Claude Veritas

Her Lessons might teach her, but dont bother,if she is apologetic btw..if she is , then good for her...

Never let this kind of women to be your spouse any more, even if she pleads for a come back...she seemed only SEX DRIVEN, and its SEX which made her do all the F**KS !!

Only concern , somewhere is, her already sex driven crap foolish mind thinking of foolish acts, if the other guy too rejects her...


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## crossbar

warlock07 said:


> 8 is too young. He'll be traumatized by the fights between the parents and his loyalties to them. 8 is the right age to be fvcked by a divorce. Neither too young to forget nor too old to understand. The parents should atleast put a good front before the kid


I think devastated wrote that the 8 y/o over heard the confrontation. Chances are that devastated just confirmed to him what he over heard. I mean, you can't gloss over something like that. The kid heard what he heard.


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## Tall Average Guy

crossbar said:


> I think devastated wrote that the 8 y/o over heard the confrontation. Chances are that devastated just confirmed to him what he over heard. I mean, you can't gloss over something like that. The kid heard what he heard.



Devastated posted the following:

_I started giving our boys a shower. Then I told our 8 year old son. She overheard and got pissed at me and stormed out of the house._

What would be useful is an explanation of what he actually told the eight year old. There is a huge difference to me between saying that mommy is leaving to stay somewhere else for the week and saying that mommy is having an affair and going to stay with her boyfriend.


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## Gabriel

Tall Average Guy said:


> Devastated posted the following:
> 
> _I started giving our boys a shower. Then I told our 8 year old son. She overheard and got pissed at me and stormed out of the house._
> 
> What would be useful is an explanation of what he actually told the eight year old. There is a huge difference to me between saying that mommy is leaving to stay somewhere else for the week and saying that mommy is having an affair and going to stay with her boyfriend.


:iagree:


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## Claude Veritas

she , if she is a maternal mother, will get her shame and regret ,on the thought that her son has come to know she has cheated their father...,if not , she will never care like a f**k..in a**h**le b**t*h!!fit enough to be a global public wh**re in bestial realms..!!


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## Claude Veritas

@TS

Pal, be a Man, and dont care a damn..but have the strings of control on the entire matter...


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## Complexity

Eli-Zor said:


> I disagree his son is not stupid and is aware something is wrong. The truth from the BS is far better than distortions or lies from the wayward or anyone else. At least he is now able to support his son and protect him going forward
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this.

Some users are just making it a storm in a tea cup.


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## COguy

Claude Veritas said:


> she , if she is a maternal mother, will get her shame and regret ,on the thought that her son has come to know she has cheated their father...,if not , she will never care like a f**k..in a**h**le b**t*h!!fit enough to be a global public wh**re in bestial realms..!!


Does rage make you misspell or have you always written like that?

Don't project your crap on this guys marriage. He's got enough to deal with without having to listen to your biased and bitter assessment of his wife.


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## rrrbbbttt

As some have stated, you are at an emotional high now because you took action. Things are now going to happen because you revealed the Affair. You need to prepare yourself emotionally to handle them. Some that may happen:

1. OM , now that he has her decides he does not want her full time and stops the affair the WS come back to you and says she was wrong and wants to repair the Marriage. 

2. Family pressure on her or you to try and save the marriage. This can take many different forms.

The important thing is for you to keep a level head and decide what you want. You may want to write that down now and when these things do happen review your list to remind yourself of what your ultimate objective is.

The road is never straight and has a lot of curves and turns for which you have to decide on how to take them.


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## Jonesey

Claude Veritas said:


> @co..guy
> 
> buddy, I dont need to listen to your Clap Trap BS !! on what I should do and what I shud not , I am expressing my views on the topic and its for the TS to take it ,leave it or ignore it or express his response to my views...hope you got it..thanks.


Damit dude you are my hero..

If only i could be such a great and tough man as you
The, and maybe my mom would be proud of me..

Seriously WTF DUD??


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## Devastated2

So here is a quick update.

I did tell our 8 year old sold that we are getting a divorce because mommy is having an affair and chose another man over me. Looking back, I should not have done that. I do not regret telling her family.

We had a very long conversation last night until about 2AM. She was right in pointing out that I have been a terrible husband and I have acknowledged this a few months ago. Just to make sure all of the facts are on the table. Here is a list of the terrible things that I have done to my wife.

1. Tell her to lose weight multiple times.
2. Tell her I was not attracted to her because she was heavy. I even did this after both of our sons were born.
3. I told her that the only reason we were together is because she got pregnant when we were dating during an argument.
4. I forced her to move so I could advance in my career twice.
5. Not made her feel important.
6. Ignored her too much.
7. She said I made her feel like she was beneath me.
8. I have said other hurtful things during heated arguments. 

Bottom line, I need to work on controlling my emotions and treating other people with respect.

She says that the other man is a better friend to her and he filled needs that I wasn't filling. She says that I am mean person, and I agree with her that I need to work on myself as a person. She says that the affair never would have happened if I had been a better husband. I want to believe her. 


I have been on an emotional roller coaster since I confronted her. I really hoped we would reconcile until this afternoon. She has been playing me for a fool. I asked her multiple times if she had talked to the other man and she lied to me repeatedly in my face. 

In my heart, I know our relationship is over and I need to move on with my life. It's incredibly hard because I love her, but I need to do what's best for me.

I'm going to meet with a divorce attorney tomorrow. I want to get this over with as quickly as possible.

I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to get some anti-depression medicine. I still need to make a counseling appointment to deal with my personal issues. As far as I am concerned, I just want a divorce as quickly as possible.


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## PHTlump

Devastated2 said:


> I did tell our 8 year old sold that we are getting a divorce because mommy is having an affair and chose another man over me. Looking back, I should not have done that. I do not regret telling her family.


Like we said. You shouldn't have done it. But, you recognize that and you regret it. However, you were in the heat of the moment. And D-Day is a heat like few others. So just do the best you can to help your son cope with the trauma he's going through.



Devastated2 said:


> She was right in pointing out that I have been a terrible husband and I have acknowledged this a few months ago. ... She says that the other man is a better friend to her and he filled needs that I wasn't filling. ... She says that the affair never would have happened if I had been a better husband. I want to believe her.


Don't. She's just gaslighting you to avoid responsibility. It's classic disloyal spouse behavior. She's not responsible for her affair. You are.

99% of affairs occur in unhappy marriages. That doesn't mean adultery is acceptable. The ten commandments don't say, "Thou shalt not commit adultery, unless your husband is a real jerk and he's not paying attention to you. Or, if he made you move twice, that clinches it. In that case, go nuts."

If she was unhappy in her marriage, she could have divorced you. She could have dragged you into counseling. She could have forced you to listen to her. What if she refused to have sex with you until you had a conversation? I bet you would have started paying attention then. Instead of handling a bad situation in a reasonable manner, she decided to start looking outside the marriage for romance and sex. That's despicable.



Devastated2 said:


> I have been on an emotional roller coaster since I confronted her. I really hoped we would reconcile until this afternoon. She has been playing me for a fool. I asked her multiple times if she had talked to the other man and she lied to me repeatedly in my face.


You've already confronted her. Stop playing games. Until she commits to you, which she may never do, she is choosing him. Or, she's trying to have both of you. You can bet that she's in contact with him. You can bet that she will only cut off contact from him by committing to you, or by him cutting off contact. Don't torture yourself by trying to gauge her level of commitment to cheating on you.



Devastated2 said:


> In my heart, I know our relationship is over and I need to move on with my life. It's incredibly hard because I love her, but I need to do what's best for me.
> 
> I'm going to meet with a divorce attorney tomorrow. I want to get this over with as quickly as possible.
> 
> I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to get some anti-depression medicine. I still need to make a counseling appointment to deal with my personal issues. As far as I am concerned, I just want a divorce as quickly as possible.


I like your plan. But you should know that she's probably on a roller coaster too. She may switch from upset that she's losing her family to elated that she doesn't have to hide her boyfriend any more. You just need to try to be ready for anything. She may try to reconcile. She may jump at the chance for a quickie divorce. She may decide to contest every issue in the divorce. She may try to waffle between reconciliation and divorce in an attempt to keep you as her meal ticket for as long as possible. Or, she may do something else entirely.

Just work on yourself and your kids.

Good luck.


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## COguy

You did good. Dont second guess yourself. Yes you could have done things differently, she could have to. But dont ever for one second believe you caused the affair.

I know its hard, but you are doing the right thing. Focus 100% on yourself and being a good dad. Everything else will fall into place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated2

Thank you to everyone who has commented. This forum has been my rock.

I was able to get an appointment with a counselor tonight. I definitely need all the help I can get.


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## rrrbbbttt

The issues with the marriage are 50% yours and 50% hers, as I have read many times in these threads.

The affair is 100% hers.

There is nothing that justifies an affair. That is the nuclear option that causes so much collateral damage that the marriage may never recover.


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## Devastated2

Here is a quick update.

I talked more with my wayward wife. I apologized (again) for the hurtful things that I have done to her over the years. She is still mad that I cancelled her credit cards, (she was an authorized user). The big takeaway is that he said that she stopped loving me romantically and insists that our marriage would have ended anyway. I'm inclined to believe that is probably true.

About an hour later, I tried eating dinner and I started throwing up in the sink. I have been having spells of nausea for a few days. She comes to find out what is wrong. I don't know if it was my vulnerability, but her position softened quite a bit. She rubs my back and holds me. We both agree that we hate the situation that we are in. 

She suggested that we separate for a while and move home with her parents. I told her that I don't think seperation is a good idea. Then, she suggests that we try marriage counseling while we are waiting for the medation to be finalized. I'm incredibly confused. One minute, I feel like she wants nothing to do with me. Now, she wants to try, I guess.

Her parents and brothers are coming to town for the weekend. 

The roller coaster ride continues...


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> Here is a quick update.
> 
> I talked more with my wayward wife. I apologized (again) for the hurtful things that I have done to her over the years. She is still mad that I cancelled her credit cards, (she was an authorized user). The big takeaway is that he said that she stopped loving me romantically and insists that our marriage would have ended anyway. I'm inclined to believe that is probably true.
> 
> About an hour later, I tried eating dinner and I started throwing up in the sink. I have been having spells of nausea for a few days. She comes to find out what is wrong. I don't know if it was my vulnerability, but her position softened quite a bit. She rubs my back and holds me. We both agree that we hate the situation that we are in.
> 
> She suggested that we separate for a while and move home with her parents. I told her that I don't think seperation is a good idea. Then, she suggests that we try marriage counseling while we are waiting for the medation to be finalized. I'm incredibly confused. One minute, I feel like she wants nothing to do with me. Now, she wants to try, I guess.
> 
> Her parents and brothers are coming to town for the weekend.
> 
> The roller coaster ride continues...


She's trying to eat her cake and have it too. She is scared that she's going to lose you. Why would you go to marriage counseling if she:

A: Doesn't love you
B: Doesn't want to commit to you 100%
C: Wants to keep screwing around?

Sounds like there is a part of her that still wants to be with you, but I guarantee if you give in and go to counseling with her and she hasn't committed to working on your marriage and going NC with this guy, you're going to sabotage any chance you have left.

She's got you apologizing for what YOU did (SHE'S THE ONE THAT CHEATED ON YOU!!), and you're making it ok for her by agreeing she's right. She is not in any way truly remorseful for her actions. True remorse would not entail blame-shifting, continued contact, asking for separation, etc. She doesn't even sound sorry that she's screwing you over, she just sounds sorry that you're hurt. It's not real to her yet that SHE'S actively causing the pain. She still thinks it's your fault, and you're making it easy on her.

You need to stay strong and give her the papers. Tell her you won't work on the marriage while she's not 100% committed. When she wants to end the affair and look to reconcile with 100% commitment to the marriage, then you can discuss it later. Separation, MC, are all ways for her to keep stringing you along while she goes and screws around. Don't let her play with your emotions. Don't let her falsely comfort you.


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## tacoma

MC is worthless if she`s carrying on an affair.


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## morituri

You seem to suffer from short term memory loss because you're back to square one. I'd highly recommend that you go back to the beginning of this thread and once again read all the advice that has been given to you. Failure to do so will be detrimental to your emotional well being.


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## Eli-Zor

Your WW is trying to manipulate you and keep the OM. Find out who he is and expose him as well. Keep the finances locked, stop apologising as she is blameshifting.

Work on yourself , get into shape, control what you say and behave . Switch to the 180 and stick to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

rrrbbbttt said:


> The issues with the marriage are 50% yours and 50% hers, as I have read many times in these threads.
> 
> The affair is 100% hers.
> 
> There is nothing that justifies an affair. That is the nuclear option that causes so much collateral damage that the marriage may never recover.


More like 75% yours and 25% hers. Those are some harsh things to say to a woman, unless you are both trading blows and saying things to hurt each other.

Affair is 100% on her


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## snap

Don't assume it's getting better because she patted you on the back.


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## Devastated2

Today is a very busy day.

This morning, I confirmed that my wayward wife is interested in going to marriage counseling. Then I flat out told her that I'm not going to marriage counseling unless she agrees to have zero contact with the other guy and gives me access to her phone, FB, iPad, and email to help rebuild trust in her. She was upset and told that she will think about it. She told me that she feels alienated from her family because I told them about her affair which is pushing her towards the other man. She said that I have always tried to make myself look good at her expense and be the victim. She has never told anyone about the terrible things I have done and said to her.

This morning I called everyone in her family that I told about her affair and asked them to reach out to her and comfort her. I asked all of them to help me get the other man out of the picture so we can try to see if our marriage is fixable. 

In an attempt to prove to her that I'm not out to "ruin her" and get sympathy from everyone, I told them all about everything hurtful that I have done to my wayward wife. I'm not sure if it will soften her bad feelings toward me or not, but I figured that it was worth a shot.

I went to the doctor this morning to get some anti-depression and sleeping medicine. I meet with my divorce attorney this afternoon.

My former attorney found my signed prenuptial agreement and emailed me a copy of it. That was the best money I have ever spent in my entire life. I know the other man has her convinced about all the money and financial support that she will be able to get out of me. She is in for a HUGE reality check when she realizes that I kept all of my assets in individual accounts and she will get nothing. My prenup includes a provision that I will not be paying for her legal fees either. She is going to have 5 days to leave the house after I serve her the divorce papers. She is going to be so pissed.

She has told me that the reason she has been having an affair is because I have always been so mean to her and the other man is nice to me. I'm going to let her keep one of the cars. She is so angry at me now that I'm she won't even acknowledge that I am doing something nice for her. I'm definitely not going to make her leave within 5 days too, but I'm sure she won't acknowledge anything nice I do for her.


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## strugglinghusband

Wow, yep fo sure she's gonna pissed!!!!

Good for you on the pre-nup, will be a real eye opener...would love to hear what the O/M says once he finds out she gets nadda...

Can I hear the karma train whistle, in the back round coming around the bend?


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## Almostrecovered

stop fixating on your perceived deficiencies


they are in no way shape or form an excuse to cheat, when she tells you she did it because you did X then she is blameshifting and not showing remorse.


can you improve and work on your part of the marriage?- yes

BUT you can't do a damn thing unless the affair is over, no conatct is established, she is open and transparent and she starts to demonstrate true remorse


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## PHTlump

Sounds like you're on top of things. And I think you're going above and beyond by contacting her family and owning up to your part in the prior state of your marriage.

Just keep moving forward. When she says she has to think about things, she really means that she wants things to stay exactly as they are. The other man for romance and sex and you for your paycheck. If you'll just give her more time, as her meal ticket, she might decide you're not such a bad backup plan after all. Don't buy it. For you, things should either get better, or they should end. There is no third option.

Keep the pace of your divorce and personal change slow and steady, but ever-forward.

Good luck.


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## Eli-Zor

If only many of the betrayed spouses on this forum followed your example; read and run the 180 , keep it in place until such time as she fully commits to the marriage. In the interim work on improving yourself so the change in your behaviours is permanent. 

Take out the OM!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Stop being nice btw until she does something that deserves you bring nice. Understand she chose to have the affair and has chosen to not end it. So why are you giving her a car or aroof over her head when she wants you to go away so she can continue the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

I'm confused. She wants to work on marriage counseling. You told her your conditions. Then she said she will think about it. 

Okay, I'm with you so far.

Then you look at your prenup and have some thoughts about that. And now she's so pissed she can't even acknowledge you did something nice for her. WTF? Did you re-show her the prenup and tell her about the assets - and THAT's why she's so pissed? 

The order of events in that post is confusing. I can't tell what is going on.


----------



## Devastated2

Thanks everyone. 

I feel like my wife's affair is the karma train giving me the ultimate payback. I forgot to mention my emotional affair earlier.

In the interest of full disclosure, I did have an EA via email with an old friend right after we got married. Basically, I would complain about my wife to my AP and compliment my AP. My wife found out about it and it absolutely devastated her. When she asked me to have nothing to do with my AP at all, she found out that I looked at her Facebook profile page once. I was wrong and I hurt my wife again. I can proudly say that I haven't had any contact or even a remote interest in risking my marriage ever since then about 2 years ago.

My WW has always held that over my head and rightfully so. When I asked my WW to cut off all contact with her AP, we discussed how she asked me to not contact my EA AP, and I betrayed her looked at her FB profile once. She has used my poor response to her request to end all contact as a reason that she needs to think about whether or not she will end all contact with ther AP.

In summary, I have probably been about the worst husband ever and my wife got completely sick of dealing with the hurtful things I was constantly doing to her and she feels justified in her physical affair.


----------



## Devastated2

Gabriel said:


> I'm confused. She wants to work on marriage counseling. You told her your conditions. Then she said she will think about it.
> 
> Okay, I'm with you so far.
> 
> Then you look at your prenup and have some thoughts about that. And now she's so pissed she can't even acknowledge you did something nice for her. WTF? Did you re-show her the prenup and tell her about the assets - and THAT's why she's so pissed?
> 
> The order of events in that post is confusing. I can't tell what is going on.



Sorry, my brain is scrambled.

I haven't shown my wife the prenuptial agreement yet.

I'm not that mean of a person to leave her and our boys without a vehicle to drive. I'm definitely going to give her one of my cars as a nice gesture. I'm just guessing that she is going to think she is entitled to the car because of the negative influences in her life, rather than seeing it for what it is.....a gift from me.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Devastated2 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I feel like my wife's affair is the karma train giving me the ultimate payback. I forgot to mention my emotional affair earlier.
> 
> In the interest of full disclosure, I did have an EA via email with an old friend right after we got married. Basically, I would complain about my wife to my AP and compliment my AP. My wife found out about it and it absolutely devastated her. When she asked me to have nothing to do with my AP at all, she found out that I looked at her Facebook profile page once. I was wrong and I hurt my wife again. I can proudly say that I haven't had any contact or even a remote interest in risking my marriage ever since then about 2 years ago.
> 
> My WW has always held that over my head and rightfully so. When I asked my WW to cut off all contact with her AP, we discussed how she asked me to not contact my EA AP, and I betrayed her looked at her FB profile once. She has used my poor response to her request to end all contact as a reason that she needs to think about whether or not she will end all contact with ther AP.
> 
> In summary, I have probably been about the worst husband ever and my wife got completely sick of dealing with the hurtful things I was constantly doing to her and she feels justified in her physical affair.


Your not reading what A/R wrote!!!! Hell, as far a ****ty husbands, lets compare notes, bet I beat you by a country mile....your ****ty past, my ****ty past DOES NOT EXCUSE an affair by our wives!!!!!!


----------



## Complexity

I wish more users will tell both sides of the story first............


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Just to be clear your wife is/was having a sexual affair or just a emotional one?


----------



## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> I wish more users will tell both sides of the story first............


I don't think it really changes things. He didn't say so at first, but he did write in a later post that he was a lousy husband. So, it turns out, he was really lousy. It's still not an excuse for his wife going nuclear with an affair.

There's almost always a reason people cheat. That doesn't make cheating any more acceptable.


----------



## Jonesey

*My WW has always held that over my head and rightfully so.*

And know you know why??


----------



## turnera

Right now, you don't need to discuss anything with her except: Either you agree to never contact OM again or I'm filing for divorce.

What you were before has NO bearing on the fact that she is NOW actively cheating on you.

She had the right to leave you when you cheated, and she chose not to, for whatever her reasons were. Now you have the same right.


----------



## Devastated2

ShootMePlz! said:


> Just to be clear your wife is/was having a sexual affair or just a emotional one?


I would say both. She has feelings for him and they have had sex "a few times". She says they talk a lot, but don't see each other very often.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> Right now, you don't need to discuss anything with her except: Either you agree to never contact OM again or I'm filing for divorce.
> 
> What you were before has NO bearing on the fact that she is NOW actively cheating on you.
> 
> *She had the right to leave you when you cheated, and she chose not to, for whatever her reasons were. Now you have the same right*.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Devastated2

My emotional affair was definitely a huge turning point in our marriage. It's almost like she has been trying to move past my EA, but just can't. It's kind of like she is finally leaving me because of my affair.


----------



## Devastated2

PHTlump said:


> I don't think it really changes things. He didn't say so at first, but he did write in a later post that he was a lousy husband. So, it turns out, he was really lousy. It's still not an excuse for his wife going nuclear with an affair.
> 
> There's almost always a reason people cheat. That doesn't make cheating any more acceptable.


I completely agree that I was a really bad husband. I would appreciate suggestions of how to be a better person in general (less selfish, more genuine, more sensitive of other people's feelings, etc.). I know that I need to improve the person that I am.


----------



## Devastated2

I am really struggling with the best way to handle this situation. My prenup is pretty airtight. She basically only will get child support (~$1600-$1900 per month), no spousal support or alimony. All of the bank accounts and investments have always only been in my name only. The prenup dictates that these all go to me. My lawyer told me that I don't have to give her any money until the divorce is final. I love my wayward wife and want to reconcile (even though she won't commit to no contact with the other man).

I want to protect myself, but I want to help her also. I closed the credit cards because they were in my name only. I told her that I would give her cash but I want to know what she is spending money on. I just want to make sure she is not spending money on anything related to him. She is not happy and thinks this is another example of me being a mean husband.

The whole story is that she has invested a lot of time and energy into our family and supporting my career. She has dropped out of college twice for me for me to advance my career. She has stayed at home to watch the boys while I have finished my MBA and worked long hours. She feels like she earned a "fair share" of our assets. I know that she played a huge part in getting my career to where it is today. Legally, I don't have to give her anything. But, I want to prove to her that I am not the selfish and mean husband that she has dealt with for the last 9 years. I don't know what to do. My mind says give her something , but nothing over the top (ex: a car and some money). My heart says to give her "enough" to prove to her that I am the the man that she should love. (ex: a car, some money, and maybe try to have both of us living in my house while she finishes school)

The child support amount is not going to be enough for her to live on. She is going to have to get a job in order to take care of herself and our boys. She is terrified and furious about her financial situation that I "put her in". She regrets giving up so much for me, and thinks that I ruined her life. She is worried about having to drop out of school and take our boys to live with her parents out of state.

I know this is counter intuitive to everything I have read here, but I really feel like I need to prove to her that I am not some selfish and mean person like she believes I am. She doesn't deserve to live in poverty and I don't want my boys to live poorly.

How can I prove to her that I am not the mean and selfish person that I have been? 

I just want another chance to reconcile with her. I feel like I'm addicted to my wife. She feels like I waited too long and I'm a horrible, mean, greedy, selfish person.


----------



## morituri

Please understand that any efforts to improve yourself as a human being should be FOR YOU and not for your wife or others. The fact that you acknowledge that you have been less than an exemplary person is a good start in becoming a better person. If you are short tempered, prone to anger quickly, and lashing out at others, then seek the services of a professional counselor to help you manage your negative feelings in a healthy fashion.

As far as your wife is concerned, divorce her. She is far from being remorseful cheater who is willing to end all contact with the OM abd doing everything to regain your trust. I seriously doubt that with her blamseshifting attitude she is that great of a wife you try to paint her out to be.


----------



## tacoma

Devastated,

You have got to stop this madness.

YOUR WIFE IS SLEEPING WITH ANOTHER MAN!!

You owe her nothing!

She complains about the financial situation YOU put her in?
WTF?

She`s the one who put herself in this situation.

Guys like you are why so many women think they can screw around whenever they want and have no consequences for their actions.

If my wife ever did to me what your wife has done her life would be one financial hardship after another until she was able to trap another sucker AND SHE KNOWS IT!!

Thats ultimately why she doesn`t screw around on me, because she knows it`s a life of poverty if she does.

You need to find some anger man.


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> She is terrified and furious about her financial situation that I "put her in". She regrets giving up so much for me, and thinks that I ruined her life. She is worried about having to drop out of school and take our boys to live with her parents out of stat


She wouldn't be facing this situation if she had not decided to have an affair in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, she has reaped what she has sown.


----------



## Devastated2

morituri said:


> Please understand that any efforts to improve yourself as a human being should be FOR YOU and not for your wife or others. The fact that you acknowledge that you have been less than an exemplary person is a good start in becoming a better person. If you are short tempered, prone to anger quickly, and lashing out at others, then seek the services of a professional counselor to help you manage your negative feelings in a healthy fashion.
> 
> As far as your wife is concerned, divorce her. She is far from being remorseful cheater who is willing to end all contact with the OM abd doing everything to regain your trust. I seriously doubt that with her blamseshifting attitude she is that great of a wife you try to paint her out to be.


I agree. I need to improve myself for ME and my sons. I am going to start meeting with a counselor regularly.

I have already started the divorce process. I seriously doubt that she can forgive me enough to try to fix our marriage. She has a very negative perception of me.

She really is a great wife. I treated her terrible and pushed her way too far.


----------



## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> She really is a great wife. I treated her terrible and pushed her way too far.


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> She really is a great wife. I treated her terrible and pushed her way too far.


With all due respect, you are in a fog of your own. A great wife would never cheat on her husband or blame him for her choice to betray him.

There are former cheating wives here on this forum that your wife would not even come close to measuring up to.


----------



## warlock07

There are a few ways you can go about this thing..

1) Divorce and destroy her completely for betraying you.

2) Divorce and be fair and reasonable to her financially until she gets back on her feet. then you go separate ways.

3) Reconcile with her under the implied threat of her financial ruin and she has no other options.(very bad)

4) Reconcile if she sees the mistake she has done and is truly remorseful. The problem with this would be, you wouldn't be sure if she is doing this for financial security and might leave you once she realizes that she does not need you.


----------



## Devastated2

warlock07 said:


> There are a few ways you can go about this thing..
> 
> 1) Divorce and destroy her completely for betraying you.
> 
> 2) Divorce and be fair and reasonable to her financially until she gets back on her feet. then you go separate ways.
> 
> 3) Reconcile with her under the implied threat of her financial ruin and she has no other options.(very bad)
> 
> 4) Reconcile if she sees the mistake she has done and is truly remorseful. The problem with this would be, you wouldn't be sure if she is doing this for financial security and might leave you once she realizes that she does not need you.


I feel like option 2 is the most likely scenario. I just don't know what "fair and reasonable" is.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think fair and reasonable is to give her half of everything you have accumulated since you were married. She was working as hard as you were when you were at school.

Depends on how much that is as to whether she deserves some alimony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

I hate to say this but before long you're going to be offering to buy her a new bed for her and her new man. You have compelely gone off track. ITS NOT YOUR FAULT SHE IS SCREWING ANOTHER MAN. She did this to herself. Now she's guilting you with bullsh!t. You are giving up way to easy.


----------



## jnj express

Make sure your POST--NUP agreement has a duress clause

Many post--nups are thrown out by the judge, if there is not a duress clause

Also get it notarized


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## Saffron

Try to keep in mind that your wife chose to put her career on hold, perhaps you encouraged it or even preferred it but it was still her decision too. Many women continue to work or continue their education while raising a family. If she wanted it enough, you both could've ensured she was able to pursue her education and career. 

Now your wife is feeling unfulfilled with her choices in life. She wants to blame others instead of taking action and making productive changes like going back to school or getting a job. Another man is not going to improve her perspective career choices, sounds more like she just doesn't want to work. Period. She'd rather have your financial support while she gets her emotional and physical satisfaction elsewhere.


----------



## Complexity

My sympathies have completely changed. I actually feel bad for your wife. First you cheated on her then subjected her to endless emotional abuse after she sacrificed so much for you. She has no reason to reconcile to be honest.


----------



## Beowulf

chapparal said:


> I hate to say this but before long you're going to be offering to buy her a new bed for her and her new man. You have compelely gone off track. ITS NOT YOUR FAULT SHE IS SCREWING ANOTHER MAN. She did this to herself. Now she's guilting you with bullsh!t. You are giving up way to easy.


:iagree:


----------



## Beowulf

Saffron said:


> Try to keep in mind that your wife chose to put her career on hold, perhaps you encouraged it or even preferred it but it was still her decision too. Many women continue to work or continue their education while raising a family. If she wanted it enough, you both could've ensured she was able to pursue her education and career.
> 
> Now your wife is feeling unfulfilled with her choices in life. She wants to blame others instead of taking action and making productive changes like going back to school or getting a job. Another man is not going to improve her perspective career choices, sounds more like she just doesn't want to work. Period. She'd rather have your financial support while she gets her emotional and physical satisfaction elsewhere.


She's trying to manipulate you into an open marriage without the actual marriage. She made the choice knowing there was a prenup. She could have made another choice that didn't involve her sleeping with another man. The more you give the more she'll feel entitled to. Is her attitude a good one for your kids to see in their mom? Shouldn't your children come to realize that there are consequences for every action. Well, your wife needs to learn this lesson now so you can both teach them that all important lesson later. If you give in to her crap your children will learn that as long as they whine and cry enough they'll get what they want. She dropped the ball. You need to be the good example now.


----------



## MissHim

The one thing I can tell you is losing my husband was the worst thing that has even happened in my life. 

I divorced him and regret it more than anything. But I know there was nothing he could do to prevent me from divorcing him, especially begging for me to not divorce him. But after the fact I would have done anything to have him back.

It could be that NOT showing you want her may actually get her back.

My husband married again. I did not. 

I wish you the best and much happiness in the future.


----------



## HaHa

Here is what I think you are not getting and it’s just my opinion…

If you were such a bad husband, she had the choice to leave and divorce you. Instead she chose to have an affair. Those were HER choices and the consequences from her actions are HERS to deal with. She knew you had an EA and she made the choice to stay with you. She knew you had a prenup and she knew what was in it. Signing the prenup was also her choice. I don’t think you owe her a thing. You might have done some crappy things as a husband, but it is not your fault for her choices. It kind of sounds like you are treating her like a child who had no control for her actions. It sounds like you are trying to make the excuse because you were a bad husband so that’s why she had an affair when in reality she had an affair because she wanted to when she could have left if she was so unhappy.


----------



## Devastated2

Complexity said:


> My sympathies have completely changed. I actually feel bad for your wife. First you cheated on her then subjected her to endless emotional abuse after she sacrificed so much for you. She has no reason to reconcile to be honest.


I agree. In my heart, I feel like I don't deserve another chance. But, I want to reconcile with my wife so bad that I can't stand it.

It's killing me inside. What can I do to change her mind and want to reconcile with me?


----------



## Devastated2

SadSamIAm said:


> I think fair and reasonable is to give her half of everything you have accumulated since you were married. She was working as hard as you were when you were at school.
> 
> Depends on how much that is as to whether she deserves some alimony.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This sounds like a much more balanced opinion. Thank you.

I already have need to work on being a more kind and generous person. I feel like some of the commenters are almost as cold as I am. 

My wife worked her ass off and sacrificed a ton for me. That doesn't make her affair justified, but I feel like I need to prove to her that she is more important to money to me.

I'm so confused.


----------



## morituri

Totally hopeless :banghead:


----------



## Devastated2

morituri said:


> Totally hopeless :banghead:


I know I am frustrating. I am an emotional wreck and I'm not thinking clearly which is why I am here looking for help.


----------



## tacoma

You`re in for some serious pain devastated.

oh..I know you think you`re hurting now but you`re setting yourself up for more tenfold.


----------



## Devastated2

tacoma said:


> You`re in for some serious pain devastated.
> 
> oh..I know you think you`re hurting now but you`re setting yourself up for more tenfold.



What do I need to do to stop the pain?


----------



## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> What do I need to do to stop the pain?


Time, time without additional emotional hurt.

You won`t get that if you proceed the way you`re heading.

Devastated, your wife doesn`t give a damn about you right now.
Maybe she`ll come out of this fog and maybe she won`t but I do know they never come out as long as the BS and everyone around them continue to make their life easier.

She doesn`t seem to care about anything but the money.

Why make this easy on her?
Why give her a golden parachute when she obviously doesn`t deserve one?


----------



## SadSamIAm

I would like to hear a legal opinion in regards to prenup agreements.

I thought they were only used to protect your assets that you acquired before marriage. 

There is no fault divorce in most states and in Canada. What is pretty much standard is that the assets are divided 50%. Child support is based on each of the spouses income and/or earning potential. Spousal support is based on each of the spouses income and/or earning potential and length of marriage.

Can a prenup override what the law says? Is a prenup legal that says, "If either party cheats, the other gets nothing."? 

I am thinking that because of 'no fault' divorce, a prenup that really changes it to 'fault' divorce would be thrown out.


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> I know I am frustrating. I am an emotional wreck and I'm not thinking clearly which is why I am here looking for help.


You want help? Really? Then I challenge you to download and read a free copy of Dr Rober Glover's book *No More Mr Nice Guy* and implement its principles.

Read also Athol Kay's *Married Man's Sex Life* and *The Man Up and Nice Guy Reference*.

*Your wife has contempt for you because you have no self respect*. Implementing the principles found in the link I've given you will help you gain the self-respect you've been missing.


----------



## turnera

Devastated2 said:


> My emotional affair was definitely a huge turning point in our marriage. It's almost like she has been trying to move past my EA, but just can't. It's kind of like she is finally leaving me because of my affair.


 That's ridiculous. You're just swallowing her affair babble. She cheated because she wanted the excitement of another man. 

It had NOTHING to do with anything you did.

Stop making excuses for her and LEAD your family - him or me. Decide NOW.


----------



## turnera

Devastated2 said:


> The child support amount is not going to be enough for her to live on. She is going to have to get a job in order to take care of herself and our boys. She is terrified and furious about her financial situation that I "put her in". She regrets giving up so much for me, and thinks that I ruined her life. She is worried about having to drop out of school and take our boys to live with her parents out of state.


First, this is WAY too early to be talking about divorce settlements. Shut the hell up! Right now, ALL you need to be talking about is her giving up OM. Period.

Even if you have decided that you're 'sure' you don't want her any more, you're making the most important decision of your life at a time when your emotions are so over the board that you don't even know what you really want.

Just slow down, back off, and focus on the issue at hand - stopping the affair. If you just kick her out, all she'll do is take YOUR kids and go live with him. Is that what you really want?

btw, I'm pretty sure she can't legally take the kids to another state without your permission. Stop letting all these things push your buttons, slow down, and get a clear head.


----------



## turnera

Devastated2 said:


> What can I do to change her mind and want to reconcile with me?


You can expose the affair and cut off her money and make continuing the affair as miserable as possible.

She will NEVER want to reconcile with you while she still wants to see OM. Women don't love two men at the same time. Right now, she loves him. 

Get him out of the picture.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> That's ridiculous. You're just swallowing her affair babble. She cheated because she wanted the excitement of another man.
> 
> It had NOTHING to do with anything you did.
> 
> Stop making excuses for her and LEAD your family - him or me. Decide NOW.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

*Her affair is nothing but ego gratification*. Her attempts to blame you and make you feel guilty for her affair is to simply justify her betrayal.


----------



## Devastated2

turnera said:


> You can expose the affair and cut off her money and make continuing the affair as miserable as possible.
> 
> She will NEVER want to reconcile with you while she still wants to see OM. Women don't love two men at the same time. Right now, she loves him.
> 
> Get him out of the picture.



I am trying to get the other man out of the picture, but it's my wife decision ultimately. Right now, she is still talking with him.

I've exposed the affair and restricted her money. 

I agree that she can't love me and have feelings for him at the same time, but I don't know what else to do to make her give up the other man. I'm open to all suggestions though.

He is single and I don't know enough about him to tell his family.

What else can I do?


----------



## morituri

Grow a pair and tell her that since she loves another man that she cannot stay and to pack her bags to go live with the OM. If she does not want to go then contact the OM in front of her and tell him to come up and pick up 'his woman' and her things. She'll hate your guts for doing it but deep down she'll respect you for it.


----------



## Devastated2

morituri said:


> Grow a pair and tell her that since she loves another man that she cannot stay and to pack her bags to go live with the OM. If she does not want to go then contact the OM in front of her and tell him to come up and pick up 'his woman' and her things. She'll hate your guts for doing it but deep down she'll respect you for it.


It's not that simple. 

She says that they are not that serious. (I don't necessarily believe that though). What about our two sons? I am leaving town on Monday morning for work. I don't want to disrupt the life of my boys like that because their mother is a cheater.

I'm just going to file for divorce. I've found some DIY websites and I'm going to give them a try.

Does anyone have any reviews or recommndations for the DIY divorce websites?


----------



## SadSamIAm

I agree with Morituri. 

You have to have boundaries and you have to be strong enough to enforce them. If she refuses to stop contact with OM, then you have to talk to a lawyer, draw up papers (legal separation or divorce) and serve her. She needs to know that the marriage is over if she continues to disrespect you.

Like Morituri says, she will be pissed, but she will respect you. 

As far as the money goes, I don't agree with holding it back so that she stays with you. Who wants a spouse that only chooses to stay with you because she can't afford not to?


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> It's not that simple.
> 
> She says that they are not that serious.  (I don't necessarily believe that though). What about our two sons? I am leaving town on Monday morning for work. I don't want to disrupt the life of my boys like that because their mother is a cheater.


Not that serious?



> she told him she wants to have lots of sex very soon


More the reason why you need to tell her to go live with the OM - that way the two of them can fvck their brains out all the way through the divorce.


----------



## Devastated2

morituri said:


> Not that serious?
> 
> 
> 
> More the reason why you need to tell her to go live with the OM - that way the two of them can fvck their brains out all the way through the divorce.


Good point.

I just don't know how my sons will do over there while I am out of town.


----------



## strugglinghusband

re-read your posts, your going from you miss her and want to R, then you just want the big D, Do you want your wife? and a chance at R? listen to what everyone is trying to tell you, you can not make those huge descions right now your emotions are all over the board, get PISSED OFF, use anger as a tool, channel it, right now you should be focusing on how to break up the affair....these folks are trying to help you to save some time and pain!

they are trying to make you see that its time to man up!!!! 
Read and read on TAM, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!!

Best of luck


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> Good point.
> 
> I just don't know how my sons will do over there while I am out of town.


That is HER problem not yours. I'm sure the OM will have a fun time playing step-daddy, though it definitely will put a crimp in him wanting to bang you stbxw.


----------



## turnera

Look, Dev. This is the bottom line:

Women have to respect their man to be in love with him. 

Right now you are doing NOTHING to earn her respect. She knows you know she's boinking another man and you haven't kicked her out. You just lost all her respect. Right now, OM looks miles better than you because you are acting like a doormat. 

The only way she will ever respect you enough to love you again is if you just point blank go up to her and say something like "I won't share you. You can either choose me and stay, or pack your bags and choose him. You have 30 minutes to decide."

And then follow through. If she won't budge, call up her parents and tell them she refuses to give up her adultery partner, and you are removing her from your home because of it; would they like to come help her move out?


----------



## Complexity

Why are people offering him "no more mr nice guy"? this guy admitted he was an abusive husband......

If you want to reconcile with your wife you have to tell her that you're willing to start again with a clean slate and you will pro actively address her grievances and most of all your ungratefulness. You also need tom address your propensity to put down people who care about you the most.


----------



## morituri

No one is excusing his past behavior but that does not excuse his wife from having an affair, blame shifting him for it, and refusing to end all contact with the OM. She is a hypocrite who after suffering from his EA and calling him out because of it, she then turns around and has a full blown affair of her own. 

Sorry but she made a choice to stay married to him and that means she should have acted accordingly. Right now the only abuser is his cheating wife.


----------



## Complexity

This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?

This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.


----------



## COguy

Complexity said:


> This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?
> 
> This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.


Why didn't she divorce him first then? Or start school and get a job in preparation for leaving?

Two wrongs don't make a right. If she knew the marriage was over, she should have left, not started screwing around.


----------



## Complexity

COguy said:


> Why didn't she divorce him first then? Or start school and get a job in preparation for leaving?


My best guess would be the need to preserve a family for their children, an empty shell family may it be.


----------



## skip76

Devastated2 said:


> I feel like option 2 is the most likely scenario. I just don't know what "fair and reasonable" is.


give it all to her, she already has your balls and your dignity. you have to completely change the way you are looking at this. there may be blame to go around but she takes the cake and it is recommended that other less trivial issues be resolved after this major betrayal.


----------



## Saffron

Sorry, no matter how big an @ Dev was to his wife or how much she sacrificed over the years, she should've ended the marriage instead of engaging in an exit affair. If she wanted to leave the marriage, instead of having an affair she could've used that energy to get herself financially independent. How an affair is going to help her leave her marriage is beyound me. If she moves in with the OM then she'll just become dependent on him. It's a vicious cycle.

I understand many of us may sound cold, but since my H's infidelity my eyes are wide open to what being a SHAM does to a woman. I understand the sacrifices your wife has made and that she worked hard over the years, that's been me for the last decade. My husband has admitted in therapy that he was mentally abusive to me over the years too. So I can relate to your wife, but she is still drinking the kool-aid. You've shouldered the financial burden of making sure your family as food, shelter, and a future. I'm sure you've made sacrifices too. You've probably missed many milestones and special moments of your children's lives, but you did what you thought was necessary for your family in furthering your career. Even my MC said the pressure and stress of being financially responsible for an entire family is very different than being the one staying at home taking care of children. If your wife can't see that, then there is a huge disconnect in her ability to see the whole picture.

When it comes down to it, your wife needs to find fulfillment outside of the home. She's getting the gratification from another man right now, but it won't last. By not encouraging her to work and gain some independence, she will always be dependent on others. If you have a daughter, you do not want her to learn by her mother's example. My Mom never worked, except for the odd job here and there, so that's really all I ever aspired to achieve. Be a great Mom and homemaker! I've done myself a disservice by not seeing the long term benefits in maintaining my career. Not only for my own gratification and fulfillment, but to set an example for my children that there's so much more to Mom than making dinner and cleaning house.

I get your wife's thoughts, I've probably had very similar ones over the years, but the path she's taking is not the road to happiness. She will someday have a rude awakening and it's better for her to get it now rather than later.

For the record, I'm not saying you should blackball your wife out of the money you've earned while married. Just that she needs to realize how to be responsible with that money and how to earn her own keep if you separate. Remember, this money is for your children's future too. She shouldn't want to use it all on support, but for supplement. The thinking that you should keep supporting her (beyond child support) after a divorce sounds like a child wanting Mom & Dad to keep up the flow of money after college. At some point, she will need to be on her own. When the kids are grown or in school full time, she will feel even more worthless sitting at home all day with nothing but the walls for company. Believe me, I know this feeling well.


----------



## morituri

Complexity said:


> My best guess would be the need to preserve a family for their children, an empty shell family may it be.


Oh really? Then care to explain how is having a full blown affair preserving a family for her children?


----------



## skip76

Complexity said:


> This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?
> 
> This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.


he mentioned five or six things he said throughout the marriage. if she is bringing them up as excuses and he is regurgiataing it here, maybe he said one or two horrible things a year. maybe the wording was different at the time or context she has now skewed. his emotional affair could also have been her blameshifting as he says he didnt even realize it at the time. besideds she supposedly forgave him and moved on, cant use that as an excuse anymore. something just seems off to me about the way he brought that stuff up but maybe it is me and he is a jerk. how many jerks like you are thinking he is are on marriage websites looking for help and telling us how great his cheating wife is.


----------



## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> Why are people offering him "no more mr nice guy"? this guy admitted he was an abusive husband......


An abusive husband is a man who hits his wife. A man who tells his wife that her butt looks big in those pants is not an abusive husband. Having what sounds like a minor EA is certainly very hurtful. But, I think it's a stretch to call complaining about your wife to another woman abuse.

Also, NMMNG is about boundaries and alpha behavior. Not abuse.


----------



## Complexity

morituri said:


> Oh really? Then care to explain how is having a full blown affair preserving a family for her children?


She's at a point now where preserving a family isn't worth being with the OP hence her reluctance to give up the OM. She knows what her alternative is. If the OP hopes to change this, he needs to do some serious soul searching.

FYI to everyone else here, I'm not sticking up for her, I just understand why she did it.


----------



## morituri

Complexity said:


> FYI to everyone else here, I'm not sticking up for her, I just understand why she did it.


Like most cheaters she did it for one reason only, *ego gratification.*

Sadly you ARE justifying her actions.


----------



## turnera

Complexity said:


> your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse.


What abuse exactly are we talking about?


----------



## Complexity

PHTlump said:


> An abusive husband is a man who hits his wife.


Erm I disagree. Constantly berating and putting down your spouse is abuse, abuse is not exclusive to physical violence. 



> A man who tells his wife that her butt looks big in those pants is not an abusive husband.


I think you should back and re read what he wrote. 



skip76 said:


> he mentioned five or six things he said throughout the marriage. if she is bringing them up as excuses and he is regurgiataing it here, maybe he said one or two horrible things a year. maybe the wording was different at the time or context she has now skewed. his emotional affair could also have been her blameshifting as he says he didnt even realize it at the time. besideds she supposedly forgave him and moved on, cant use that as an excuse anymore. something just seems off to me about the way he brought that stuff up but maybe it is me and he is a jerk. how many jerks like you are thinking he is are on marriage websites looking for help and telling us how great his cheating wife is.


You're looking at it superficially. A person as giving as his wife is (and I'm just going by what he's saying) doesn't just wake up one day and decide to have an affair because he said "you're getting kind of fat" once or twice a year. This must've been concerted and consistent remonstration. I completely understand that people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment but her primary grievance towards him is that he's a mean individual. This is built up resentment, his wife isn't a selfish or puerile individual, she's devoted everything towards him and he turns around and cheats on her, THIS is the issue I find most difficult to get over.


----------



## Beowulf

Complexity said:


> This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?
> 
> This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.


THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR

let me state that again

THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR

once more

THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR

Now that we have that cleared up...


----------



## Complexity

morituri said:


> Like most cheaters she did it for one reason only, *ego gratification.*
> 
> Sadly you ARE justifying her actions.


Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual :scratchhead:

Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.


----------



## Complexity

Beowulf said:


> THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR
> 
> let me state that again
> 
> THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR
> 
> once more
> 
> THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR
> 
> Now that we have that cleared up...


Erm thanks for that though I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish..... I think more people here need to ascertain the difference between understanding something and condoning it.


----------



## Saffron

Complexity said:


> She's at a point now where preserving a family isn't worth being with the OP hence her reluctance to give up the OM. She knows what her alternative is. If the OP hopes to change this, he needs to do some serious soul searching.
> 
> FYI to everyone else here, I'm not sticking up for her, I just understand why she did it.


I get her thought process too, still doesn't mean it's a healthy way to think. She's setting herself up for further disappointments. 

If I met a man tomorrow who gave me that glimpse of what life could be like without all the difficulites I'm facing now, of course it would be tempting. But I also know it's not going to solve anything or automatically make my life better. It'd be the fantasy of possibility. It seems Dev's wife thinks an affair is the answer to her problems in life, but on some level she must know it's not, since she's not walking away from the marriage. She wants the ego boost and fulfillment she finds in the affair, but wants to keep the family lifestyle she's used to. Can't have both.


----------



## Beowulf

Complexity said:


> Erm thanks for that though I don't understand what you're accomplish..... I think more people here need to ascertain the difference between understanding something and condoning it.


Because regardless of the circumstances of the marriage there are ALWAYS alternatives to cheating. When you cheat you give up any moral high ground you might have had regarding problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the marital issues are/were once you cheat you trump them all. So I repeat:

THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think you are projecting your own experience Complexity.

I have no idea how you can know so much about his wife from what has been written. People do have affairs for no reason at all. He could have verbally abused her a couple of times a year and she is blaming her affair on this or he could have been doing it all the time.

Maybe she dropped out of college twice because she wasn't too ambitious. Maybe she had no goals. You are thinking she gave up a bunch of things for her husband, but maybe she was happy to just be at home. I can assure that there are 'ego centred' people who have no ambition in regards to career.


----------



## morituri

Complexity said:


> Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual :scratchhead:


You obviously believe that only bad people are capable of having affairs. That is simply not the case for even good people can have an affair by making a series of choices to cross marital boundaries.

What distinguishes the good people who have an affair from the bad people who have an affair boils down to one word, remorse. Don't believe me? Just ask some of the former unfaithful spouses here. Something that she is sorely lacking.

Lastly, my grandfather was a man who supported his wife, his children and sacrificed to make sure that they lacked nothing in so far as food, clothing and shelter. Unfortunately he was an a$$hole who was a drunk who emotionally abused those closest to him. To outsiders he was the image of the perfect husband and father, but those of us who knew him, knew differently. I wouldn't be surprised if Dev's wife happens to be just like good ol' grandpa.



> Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.


Your words, and not my beliefs, are proof of this.


----------



## Saffron

Complexity said:


> Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual :scratchhead:
> 
> Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.


I think what's hard is that we're only hearing Dev's viewpoint of everything, so he could be vilifying himself more than the reality. Granted, he could be downplaying it too. However, I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is in the aftermath of d-day turmoil. Many of us questioned ourselves and wondered where we failed as a spouse during that time. Having his wife confirm all his failures by blameshifting might be amplifyng them in his mind.

Unless Dev forced his wife to drop out of college against her wishes, she could've continued. Maybe he did force her, but if she stuck out marriage this long, having an affair is the worst way to improve her lot in life. Now would be the time to finish college and start a career, having the affair solves nothing. So it's her lack of foresight that has me seeing her motivation for the affair as typical WS. If she was so miserable in the marriage, her exit should've more planned and thought out and not a typical wayward mantra of blameshifting.


----------



## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> Erm I disagree. Constantly berating and putting down your spouse is abuse, abuse is not exclusive to physical violence.


We will have to disagree on the definition of abuse. I think saying mean things to someone is not the same as beating someone.



Complexity said:


> I think you should back and re read what he wrote.


That's a good idea. He moved his family twice to advance his career. He told his wife that he was less attracted to her after she had gained weight. And he said some hurtful things while they were arguing. He didn't pay enough attention to his wife. He should have stroked her ego more. What a monster.




Complexity said:


> You're looking at it superficially. A person as giving as his wife is (and I'm just going by what he's saying) doesn't just wake up one day and decide to have an affair because he said "you're getting kind of fat" once or twice a year. This must've been concerted and consistent remonstration. I completely understand that people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment but her primary grievance towards him is that he's a mean individual. This is built up resentment, his wife isn't a selfish or puerile individual, she's devoted everything towards him and he turns around and cheats on her, THIS is the issue I find most difficult to get over.


I think you're just looking for justification where none may exist. People have affairs for all kinds of stupid reasons. Eat, Pray, Love sold a billion copies about a wife who got bored with her nice guy hubby, so she had an exit affair and divorced her hubby.

What she's saying now may have little or nothing to do with why she cheated. There are very few women who will admit that they cheated because they were bored. They know how that sounds. So they have to say that he was a monster. "He didn't make me feel special enough. He didn't make my every fantasy come true. No, he didn't hit me. It was emotional abuse."


----------



## FrankKissel

PHTlump said:


> We will have to disagree on the definition of abuse. I think saying mean things to someone is not the same as beating someone.


Murder is not the same as battery, but they're both violent crimes.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Not the same as physical abuse, but still abuse.
Funny how easily the word "abuse" gets thrown out here when it comes to a wife denying her husband sex, but berating and insulting one's spouse is not abuse. Hmmmm.

I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FrankKissel

morituri said:


> I thought this forum was titled 'Coping With Infidelity' not 'Your Wife Cheated Because You Were An [email protected]#$%'. I guess I was mistaken.


Self-reflection should be part of coping with infidelity, don't you think?
I suppose it's easy, and totally understandable even, to direct all energies outward at a time when you've been greatly wounded. But I'm not sure it's best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

FrankKissel said:


> Self-reflection should be part of coping with infidelity, don't you think?
> I suppose it's easy, and totally understandable even, to direct all energies outward at a time when you've been greatly wounded. But I'm not sure it's best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course but when a cheating wife shows no signs of remorse or wanting to end her affair then why should a betrayed husband be excoriated for his past behavior? Have we done this to a betrayed wife in the past?

In his case, self reflection should come after he ends his marriage and moves on with his life, not during the time that he's undergoing enormous emotional upheaval and needs support and advice.


----------



## Complexity

Beowulf said:


> Because regardless of the circumstances of the marriage there are ALWAYS alternatives to cheating. When you cheat you give up any moral high ground you might have had regarding problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the marital issues are/were once you cheat you trump them all. So I repeat:
> 
> THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR


Once again beowulf read post #169, parroting the same thing over and over doesn't make you witty....or your point anymore valid. 



SadSamIAm said:


> I think you are projecting your own experience Complexity.


I did grow up in a household with an emotionally abusive parent and I saw the detriment of their actions on my mother. 



> I have no idea how you can know so much about his wife from what has been written. People do have affairs for no reason at all. He could have verbally abused her a couple of times a year and she is blaming her affair on this or he could have been doing it all the time.


Maybe I am being too observant or maybe I think there's a fundamental problem with the way people discern the actions of others. Appraising people from an inflexible black/white angle is not helpful nor does it add anything in resolving the problem. What I find bizarre is that people are attenuating the OP's actions because they're superimposing the typical behaviour of cheaters and therefore assume the mould fits with his wife.



> Maybe she dropped out of college twice because she wasn't too ambitious. Maybe she had no goals. You are thinking she gave up a bunch of things for her husband, but maybe she was happy to just be at home. I can assure that there are 'ego centred' people who have no ambition in regards to career.


From what he's written, she dropped out of college for him. More specifically so that he can further his own career.





morituri said:


> You obviously believe that only bad people are capable of having affairs. That is simply not the case for even good people can have an affair by making a series of choices to cross marital boundaries.


No it's the exact opposite morituri. People _here_ seem to assume only bad people are capable of cheating. That's why they're all falling over themselves trying to shift all the blame on his wife. There's a little thing called tickle truth that coincidentally seems to come out at the later stages of these threads. 



> What distinguishes the good people who have an affair from the bad people who have an affair boils down to one word, *remorse.* Don't believe me? Just ask some of the former unfaithful spouses here.* Something that she is sorely lacking*.


That's the main issue here. Why was your ex wife remorseful for her actions? you can fill the answer here. By contrast she feels he's undeserving of remorse because he's an abusive individual, something he too admits. I personally don't hold people or expect them to have saintly mercy or take the allegory of "turning the other cheek" to the extreme. Whether you believe that makes her a bad person is up to you. 



> Lastly, my grandfather was a man who supported his wife, his children and sacrificed to make sure that they lacked nothing in so far as food, clothing and shelter. Unfortunately he was an a$$hole who was a drunk who emotionally abused those closest to him. To outsiders he was the image of the perfect husband and father, but those of us who knew him, knew differently. I wouldn't be surprised if Dev's wife happens to be just like good ol' grandpa.


you really don't think this evaluation is much more applicable to the OP?



Saffron said:


> I think what's hard is that we're only hearing Dev's viewpoint of everything, so he could be vilifying himself more than the reality. Granted, he could be downplaying it too. However, I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is in the aftermath of d-day turmoil. Many of us questioned ourselves and wondered where we failed as a spouse during that time. Having his wife confirm all his failures by blameshifting might be amplifyng them in his mind.
> 
> Unless Dev forced his wife to drop out of college against her wishes, she could've continued. Maybe he did force her, but if she stuck out marriage this long, having an affair is the worst way to improve her lot in life. Now would be the time to finish college and start a career, having the affair solves nothing. So it's her lack of foresight that has me seeing her motivation for the affair as typical WS. If she was so miserable in the marriage, her exit should've more planned and thought out and not a typical wayward mantra of blameshifting.


Saffron, I get what you're saying but don't you think it's best to look at it objectively? The problem I perceive, is that we're peering at the OP with rose tinted glasses. I agree with everything you said, in an ideal world she would've done everything you've recommended and I do not condone her cheating whatsoever. However alleviating him from so much of the blame isn't fair. 



PHTlump said:


> That's a good idea. He moved his family twice to advance his career. He told his wife that he was less attracted to her after she had gained weight. And he said some hurtful things while they were arguing. He didn't pay enough attention to his wife. He should have stroked her ego more. What a monster.


Wow, I had to read that a few times and it's very worrying that you're being serious. 



> I think you're just looking for justification


I stopped reading right there.



> What she's saying now may have little or nothing to do with why she cheated. There are very few women who will admit that they cheated because they were bored. They know how that sounds. So they have to say that he was a monster. "He didn't make me feel special enough. He didn't make my every fantasy come true. No, he didn't hit me. It was emotional abuse."


So even though the OP admits his own mistreatment led to the affair you still insist on making excuses for him? 




FrankKissel said:


> I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
> To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions.


This 1 million percent.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Nice argument guys, but you're both right

Dev absolutely needs to work on his issues, but working on those issues does nothing unless his wife ends contact with OM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

FrankKissel said:


> Murder is not the same as battery, but they're both violent crimes.
> Verbal abuse is still abuse. Not the same as physical abuse, but still abuse.
> Funny how easily the word "abuse" gets thrown out here when it comes to a wife denying her husband sex, but berating and insulting one's spouse is not abuse. Hmmmm.


I agree. Murder and battery are both not good, but one is clearly worse than the other. Just as physical abuse and hurtful words are clearly different. And you're correct that abuse is too often used. Admitting to your wife that she's fat, rather than stroking her ego is mean, perhaps even cruel. Just as withholding sex on a long term basis is cruel. But I wouldn't say either is necessarily abusive.



FrankKissel said:


> I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
> To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Recognizing the difference in degree of their crimes is not rug sweeping. I'm simply questioning the cruelty of the OP. Moving one's family to further one's career can, only by the wildest stretch of one's imagination, be called cruel. It may be inconvenient. It may be unfortunate. It may be unnecessary. But it's not cruel. And I think that any woman who cites that as a reason to justify her affair and wish to divorce is simply grasping at straws in order to make her look less awful than she should.


----------



## Beowulf

Complexity said:


> Once again beowulf read post #169, parroting the same thing over and over doesn't make you witty....or your point anymore valid.


I read post #169. Maybe you don't know the meaning of the word understand.

"Understand: Perceive the significance, explanation, or cause of something."

Don't you see that any justification for an affair is completely off base? Any excuse for an affair simply prevents the cheating spouse from owning it. You can understand why someone can be unhappy in a marriage but understanding why they had an affair? No.

You can explain the unhappiness in a marriage but without condoning the behavior you cannot explain the decision to have an affair without putting selfishness as the #1 reason.


----------



## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> Wow, I had to read that a few times and it's very worrying that you're being serious.


I was being sarcastic. That's why I put the rolling eyes emoticon under it. I was trying to point out how ridiculous it is for you to accuse the OP of abuse, when his list of offenses range from being cruel on rare occasions to completely understandable and common (in moving his family).



Complexity said:


> So even though the OP admits his own mistreatment led to the affair you still insist on making excuses for him?


I'm not making excuses. I'm simply saying that the behavior the OP listed is nowhere near bad enough to justify an affair. The OP may believe that moving his family to justify his career is a cruel action. But not many other people would not. And he's probably just parroting his wife's demands. He may believe if he assumes the mantle of bad guy, his wife will stay. But, I doubt his wife even believes it. She may not have wanted to move, but at this point, she's probably just vainly trying to justify her actions. "Remember that time ten years ago when you told me I looked fat in those pants? Well, that's why I can never love you again." It's not abusive. It's laughable.


----------



## morituri

> morituri said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously believe that only bad people are capable of having affairs. That is simply not the case for even good people can have an affair by making a series of choices to cross marital boundaries
> 
> 
> 
> No it's the exact opposite morituri. People here seem to assume only bad people are capable of cheating. That's why they're all falling over themselves trying to shift all the blame on his wife. There's a little thing called tickle truth that coincidentally seems to come out at the later stages of these threads.
Click to expand...

I disagree, the people here have shown, on more than one occasion, that they know that not just bad people have affairs. But in Dev's case, his wife's actions post D-day are what mark her as a bad person, not the other forum members here. They are simply telling Dev like it is - the empress has no clothes.

Contrast Dev's wife's actions with those of fightingfor love's actions on her husband, movin on's thread *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/39099-what-now.html#post569397*. She has accepted total responsibility for her affairs even though she was sexually abused as a child and underwent the crushing despair of her husband, movin on, year long depression. Movin on has accepted his responsibility in not seeking timely help for his depression which contributed to the creation of the marital environment which helped make his wife's affairs possible. Unlike Dev's wife, the two of them are not making excuses for their individual behaviors.



> morituri said:
> 
> 
> 
> What distinguishes the good people who have an affair from the bad people who have an affair boils down to one word, remorse. Don't believe me? Just ask some of the former unfaithful spouses here. Something that she is sorely lacking.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the main issue here. Why was your ex wife remorseful for her actions? you can fill the answer here.
Click to expand...

Because despite her broken psyche, like fightingfor love's, deep down she was a good person who immediately after D-day, realized how her betrayal had devastated me beyond the loss of my first wife, the mother of my children, from cancer many years before. She never once blamed me for her betrayal and begged on her hands and knees for me not to leave her. Sometimes I wish that she had been like Dev's wife because then my decision to divorce her would not have been so excruciatingly painful.



> By contrast she feels he's undeserving of remorse because he's an abusive individual, something he too admits. I personally don't hold people or expect them to have saintly mercy or take the allegory of "turning the other cheek" to the extreme. Whether you believe that makes her a bad person is up to you.


As I said before, I don't have to believe for it is her actions that speak the loudest to me and to the other former betrayed spouses here, but unfortunately not to the apparently non-betrayed spouses like you and Frank.

Tell me something FrankKissel, who is really more prone to rug sweeping? A betrayed husband who accepts his shortcomings as a man and as a husband or a cheating wife who blames others, especially her husband in particular, for her bad choices in life?


----------



## Darth Vader

Just drop the B I T C H! Her cheating is NOT your fault, although you were a Bastard of a husband, it STILL gives her NO RIGHT TO CHEAT ON YOU LIKE THIS! Don't give her anything else! Make sure she leaves the home, make sure the children stay with you!


----------



## FrankKissel

morituri said:


> Tell me something FrankKissel, who is really more prone to rug sweeping? A betrayed husband who accepts his shortcomings as a man and as a husband or a cheating wife who blames others, especially her husband in particular, for her bad choices in life?


Here's the thing: I don't think OP is rug sweeping. To the contrary, he's owning up to his mistakes and their role in where the relationship is today.
The rug sweeping is being done by those telling him NOT to own up, telling him he shares no responsibility for any of this, telling him nothing he's done could have possibly alienated his wife to the point that an affair was enticing option.
She, ultimately, made that choice and she bears ultimate responsibility for it. But let's not pretend is a blameless for the state of his marriage.
He, at least, can recognize he's not. Which, wherever this mess goes from here, bodes well for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FrankKissel

PHTlump said:


> Recognizing the difference in degree of their crimes is not rug sweeping. I'm simply questioning the cruelty of the OP. Moving one's family to further one's career can, only by the wildest stretch of one's imagination, be called cruel. It may be inconvenient. It may be unfortunate. It may be unnecessary. But it's not cruel. And I think that any woman who cites that as a reason to justify her affair and wish to divorce is simply grasping at straws in order to make her look less awful than she should.


The guy admits he treated her poorly, verbally abused her and had an affair (albeit not physical), and the only example of 'cruelty' you harp on is moving the family?
Seems like you're choosing to minimize his bad acts, doesn't it.

I don't take issue with anyone blaming her 100 percent for her cheating. I do take issue with those portraying OP as a victim who's been mistreated by some evil harpy. We reap what we sow, right?

OP is like a junkie who drives alone to a bad neighborhood at 2 am to get his fix. No, he doesn't deserve to get robbed and shot, and, yes, the robber deserves whatever punishment he has coming. But the junkie still isn't an innocent. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

FrankKissel said:


> The rug sweeping is being done by those telling him NOT to own up, telling him he shares no responsibility for any of this, telling him nothing he's done could have possibly alienated his wife to the point that an affair was enticing option.


Could you point out these posts please?
I don`t see them.

I agree the OP has problems and his actions most probably did lead his wife into a very wrong decision.

At the moment this point is entirely irrelevant.
At this moment he needs to deal with her affair before anything else can be dealt with.
Whether dealing with it is R or D dealing with the affair is of the utmost importance right now.
Considering that choice seems to be D the advice I and others here are giving is to protect himself from a woman who doesn`t seem to give a damn about him because the outcome of the choices he makes right now will impact him for a very long time.

If she wants D he owes her nothing, any investment he makes in her is the equivalent of throwing resources away.
Resources he could use to move on and make himself a better person so perhaps he can enjoy a good relationship one day.

Since it`s looking like that relationship is going to be with a different woman tossing away resources at his unremorseful, cheating STBX is foolish at the least.


----------



## Devastated2

Complexity said:


> This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?
> 
> This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.


Complexity - 

Thank you for bringing a balanced and different perspective to this discussion. I greatly appreciate it.

My wife has made a ton of great points about things that I need to improve about myself. My wife made some bad choices, but I disrespected her and treated her a like she was inferior to me. You are right, my wife is an extremely giving person.

I have been practically begging her for another chance, but she tells me that she is not in love with me romantically anymore. I think she doesn't know what she wants and this guy is just a temporary distraction from the pain I caused her....kind of like a light at the end of a tunnel.

I'm praying and hoping that after our divorce is final and after some time has passed that we can start fresh on a relationship.


----------



## Devastated2

skip76 said:


> he mentioned five or six things he said throughout the marriage. if she is bringing them up as excuses and he is regurgiataing it here, maybe he said one or two horrible things a year. maybe the wording was different at the time or context she has now skewed. his emotional affair could also have been her blameshifting as he says he didnt even realize it at the time. besideds she supposedly forgave him and moved on, cant use that as an excuse anymore. something just seems off to me about the way he brought that stuff up but maybe it is me and he is a jerk. how many jerks like you are thinking he is are on marriage websites looking for help and telling us how great his cheating wife is.


These are the big five or six issues that have stuck with my wife and she has brought up numerous times over the last few years. About 3 weeks ago, I read the 5 Love Languages book and learned that her love language is Words of Affirmation. For her love language, she takes any criticism extremely personal and has a very difficult time moving past them. She thrives on compliments and I didn't give her very many. Her secondary love language is Quality Time and I was always "too busy" for her with work and taking care of things around the house.

I just wish that I had read that book 5 years ago. It probably could have saved my marriage.


----------



## PHTlump

FrankKissel said:


> The guy admits he treated her poorly, verbally abused her and had an affair (albeit not physical), and the only example of 'cruelty' you harp on is moving the family?
> Seems like you're choosing to minimize his bad acts, doesn't it.


Not at all. I'm simply reading his acts as he reported them. He did say he had an EA. Although, he then stated that, specifically, he complimented another woman and complained about his wife. Now, that's inappropriate, but I wouldn't say it's an affair. Maybe he left out the skype sex sessions, or the dirty emails and professions of undying love. If so, then it was an affair. But if he wrote the full extent of it, I would say it stopped short.

He also gave a list of his wife's complaints. There weren't many. One of them was moving to advance his career. I wouldn't even consider that particularly negative, let alone cruel. There were others, like not stroking her ego enough, that I would classify as neutral to slightly negative. The worst offenses were rare, or one-time-only, offenses. That doesn't constitute a pattern of abuse. That sounds more like a wife that got caught who is trying to rationalize her behavior with anything she can think of.

Have you seen, or heard of, a battered woman who insists that she deserved the black eye her husband gave her? Do you think we should all take her at face value, and believe that her husband was justified in beating her? Or should we dismiss her statement as the result of duress and rationalization? That's the state of mind that I attribute to the OP right now. If, a few weeks or months from now, he still believes that he's a bastard who drove his wife into the arms of another man, then maybe he's right. But from what he's written on the subject so far, it looks pretty tame to me.



FrankKissel said:


> I don't take issue with anyone blaming her 100 percent for her cheating. I do take issue with those portraying OP as a victim who's been mistreated by some evil harpy. We reap what we sow, right?


I don't have a problem with reaping what we sow. As long as it is proportionate. If you and I disagree in an online forum, and you insult me, I would not be justified in finding out your personal information, driving to your house, and burning it down. Your action would be rude. My action would be absolutely evil. And I think you would be wrong to think that you have any responsibility for my actions.


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## warlock07

Just so as to give a balance view, what your wife did is equal or more sh!tty. What you did does not give her the right to do what she did. You are in regretful mode and you are giving her more credit than she deserves.


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## Saffron

I have difficulty when any blame is laid on the BS for their spouse's affair. No matter what, in my mind, the WS has to own 100% their choice to have an affair. The marital problems are where the blame is 50/50 on both people and maybe Dev contributed to their marital discord more, but he still can't be blamed for her choosing to have an affair. 

Having suffered the devastation of discovering my H's infidelity, it is by the far the most hurtful and painful thing I've ever experienced. Inflicting this type of pain on the person with whom you've vowed to share your life is a form of mental abuse I never imagined. My husband abused my trust, my generosity, and my naivety. He risked my life and health by bringing a third person into our marriage. I had nightmares, couldn't eat for weeks, and had random PTSD anxiety attacks after d-day. I worried over the OW turning into a bunny boiler and hurting me or my children. The mental anguish is indescribable.

No matter what the circumstances of the marriage, an affair is not the answer. If it's an abusive relationship, then getting out should take priority over developing a new relationship. Romantically involving a third party in a troubled marriage is irresponsible and opens the gateway for potentially dangerous and hostile situations.

Depending on life experience, everyone is going to have varied and strong reactions to another person's ordeal with infidelity. Only Dev knows the reality of his situation, so he will read everything and adjust it to fit his perspective. He needs time to digest what has happened and what will happen moving forward. The emotional rollercoaster after such a betrayal is so sporadic his feelings can change day to day and hour by hour. Given time he will be able to look at his marriage more clearly and not with the taint of guilt by years wasted on being a suboptimal husband. 

I know if I cheated right now, my husband would probably sound a lot like Dev. He'd totally believe he drove me to do it. But I'm not going to take my H's infidelity as an opportunity to stroke my ego after it's taken a beating. I'm turning this into an opportunity to improve myself and be a stronger, better, and more confident person.


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## turnera

Guys, if you want to have a meta discussion, start a new thread.


----------



## Devastated2

Here is a quick update.

We have been talking a lot and slept in the same bed together last night. She is pretty straight forward in saying that our marriage is over and doesn't want to get my hopes up.

We went to a counselor together today and agreed to a trial separation for two weeks. We are basically not going to have any contact with each other (although I seriously doubt that she will stop talking to her affair partner). At the end of the two weeks, she needs to decide if she is willing to try to work on our marriage or if it's not worth the risk in her eyes. I did agree to give her access to 1 credit card as a token of goodwill.

I can tell that my wife is still being deceitful as hell. She tells me that she feels alienated because I told so many people about her affair and has no one to talk to other than her affair partner. She seems completely under the OM's spell and can't give him up.

I'm fully expecting to file for divorce at the end of our trial separation at this point. I don't want to, but it's unfortunately going to come to that.


----------



## Devastated2

One other thing, she thought the counselor was too pushy about saving the marriage.

That's probably another huge red flag.


----------



## Gabriel

WHY are you even separating??? The marriage is OVER. Separating just allows her to talk openly with the OM instead of hiding it from you. It will accomplish nothing. Just get out of this mess.


----------



## Devastated2

Gabriel said:


> WHY are you even separating??? The marriage is OVER. Separating just allows her to talk openly with the OM instead of hiding it from you. It will accomplish nothing. Just get out of this mess.


Don't get me wrong. I'm still going to work on completing the DIY divorce forms. I am probably going to push back on my WW to only give her a week.


----------



## Devastated2

Given the fact that we have kids and she has no job, how long is a reasonable amount of time to give her to move out?

She wants until Spring Break. That feels a little long to me.


----------



## Jonesey

Devastated2 said:


> Today is a very busy day.
> 
> This morning, I confirmed that my wayward wife is interested in going to marriage counseling. Then I flat out told her that I'm not going to marriage counseling unless she agrees to have zero contact with the other guy and gives me access to her phone, FB, iPad, and email to help rebuild trust in her. She was upset and told that she will think about it. She told me that she feels alienated from her family because I told them about her affair which is pushing her towards the other man. She said that I have always tried to make myself look good at her expense and be the victim. She has never told anyone about the terrible things I have done and said to her.
> 
> This morning I called everyone in her family that I told about her affair and asked them to reach out to her and comfort her. I asked all of them to help me get the other man out of the picture so we can try to see if our marriage is fixable.
> 
> In an attempt to prove to her that I'm not out to "ruin her" and get sympathy from everyone, I told them all about everything hurtful that I have done to my wayward wife. I'm not sure if it will soften her bad feelings toward me or not, but I figured that it was worth a shot.
> 
> I went to the doctor this morning to get some anti-depression and sleeping medicine. I meet with my divorce attorney this afternoon.
> 
> My former attorney found my signed prenuptial agreement and emailed me a copy of it. That was the best money I have ever spent in my entire life. I know the other man has her convinced about all the money and financial support that she will be able to get out of me. She is in for a HUGE reality check when she realizes that I kept all of my assets in individual accounts and she will get nothing. My prenup includes a provision that I will not be paying for her legal fees either. She is going to have 5 days to leave the house after I serve her the divorce papers. She is going to be so pissed.
> She has told me that the reason she has been having an affair is because I have always been so mean to her and the other man is nice to me. I'm going to let her keep one of the cars. She is so angry at me now that I'm she won't even acknowledge that I am doing something nice for her. I'm definitely not going to make her leave within 5 days too, but I'm sure she won't acknowledge anything nice I do for her.


*She has told me that the reason she has been having an affair is because I have always been so mean to her and the other man is nice to me*

Ask your wife this

Ok wife i get it.Im sorry you´r right. I have won the
******* husband year ward,Once and twice.
So i get that

But wife. But how, mean and disrespect full .
And other ashole behavier has OM´s Wife/GF
shown you, to you. So you can have a affair, with her man.
Just because you never got treated good by me.

tought you just was angry with me..Strange 
im have behaved like ass to put it mindly


----------



## Devastated2

Jonesey said:


> Ok wife i get it.Im sorry you´r right. I have won the
> ******* husband year ward,Once and twice.
> So i get that
> 
> But wife. But how, mean and disrespect full .
> And other ashole behavier has OM´s Wife/GF
> shown you, to you. So you can have a affair, with her man.
> Just because you never got treated good by me.
> 
> tought you just was angry with me..Strange
> im have behaved like ass to put it mindly



The OM does not have a girlfriend or wife.


----------



## working_together

Beowulf said:


> Because regardless of the circumstances of the marriage there are ALWAYS alternatives to cheating. When you cheat you give up any moral high ground you might have had regarding problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the marital issues are/were once you cheat you trump them all. So I repeat:
> 
> THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR


I totally agree with this, you lose all power to address previous issues.


----------



## working_together

morituri said:


> Of course but when a cheating wife shows no signs of remorse or wanting to end her affair then why should a betrayed husband be excoriated for his past behavior? Have we done this to a betrayed wife in the past?
> 
> In his case, self reflection should come after he ends his marriage and moves on with his life, not during the time that he's undergoing enormous emotional upheaval and needs support and advice.


I think the main thing here is that she has not yet ended her affair, so why is there any R at all???


----------



## Jonesey

Complexity said:


> *Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband...* So under all this years.She could not or bother to act like a adult.And say something´s like this
> Ok hubby her its..I supported you,to advance you and also for my loving family.But however i have reached a point.Where
> i feel our marriage is secure enough.So would like to take up school where i left.What do you think? *advance his career is really an ego centred individual *Oh really??
> Are you kidding? of course got a lot out of..
> 
> How about right now ? Husbands credit card is funding the affair.
> Hotel room cost´s you know
> 
> Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.


----------



## working_together

FrankKissel said:


> Here's the thing: I don't think OP is rug sweeping. To the contrary, he's owning up to his mistakes and their role in where the relationship is today.
> The rug sweeping is being done by those telling him NOT to own up, telling him he shares no responsibility for any of this, telling him nothing he's done could have possibly alienated his wife to the point that an affair was enticing option.
> She, ultimately, made that choice and she bears ultimate responsibility for it. But let's not pretend is a blameless for the state of his marriage.
> He, at least, can recognize he's not. Which, wherever this mess goes from here, bodes well for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There could actually be some hope for this couple, he is willing to take his 50 percent of the problems in the marriage. If she can take her responsibiltity, get rid of OM, and show remorse, that's a good start.

I really think that if a couple as a good foundation then R can be possible, tough, but usually from what I see here marriages are in a mess, lots of resentment etc.


----------



## working_together

Devastated2 said:


> Complexity -
> 
> Thank you for bringing a balanced and different perspective to this discussion. I greatly appreciate it.
> 
> My wife has made a ton of great points about things that I need to improve about myself. My wife made some bad choices, but I disrespected her and treated her a like she was inferior to me. You are right, my wife is an extremely giving person.
> 
> I have been practically begging her for another chance, but she tells me that she is not in love with me romantically anymore. I think she doesn't know what she wants and this guy is just a temporary distraction from the pain I caused her....kind of like a light at the end of a tunnel.
> 
> I'm praying and hoping that after our divorce is final and after some time has passed that we can start fresh on a relationship.


The guy has to be gone before issues from the past can be brought up by her, she's playing you, just to see if you'll change into something she likes, if she likes it, she'll keep ya, if not, she's got OM on the sidelines.


----------



## Complexity

Devastated2 said:


> Complexity -
> 
> Thank you for bringing a balanced and different perspective to this discussion. I greatly appreciate it.
> 
> My wife has made a ton of great points about things that I need to improve about myself. My wife made some bad choices, but I disrespected her and treated her a like she was inferior to me. You are right, my wife is an extremely giving person.
> 
> I have been practically begging her for another chance, but she tells me that she is not in love with me romantically anymore. I think she doesn't know what she wants and this guy is just a temporary distraction from the pain I caused her....kind of like a light at the end of a tunnel.
> 
> I'm praying and hoping that after our divorce is final and after some time has passed that we can start fresh on a relationship.


Devastated, you know that your wife didn't selfishly seek out this affair, it was a protracted sequence of events which you admit you played a heavy hand in. This does not excuse her actions whatsoever but it explains why she's lost her romantic feelings for you. She's calculated whether the negatives outweigh the positives of going into this affair and you have to realise that this is beyond being in a fog, she's checked out. She doesn't see you as a viable option, she's seen what you've given her and feels it's not worth being stuck in this limbo. She wants the divorce regardless of your money or the lifestyle you gave her. 

You can't just want her back because you now realise what you've lost. Even if she did come up to you and agree on giving you a second chance, you'll just revert to your old self a couple of months down the line. You need to fundamentally change the way you treat people, more specifically those who care about you the most. I agree with you that this guy is maybe just a distraction but that doesn't mean that once he's out of the picture, her love for you will magically reappear. She holds a tremendous amount resentment towards you. 

90% of the people on here seem to think your wife is this marauding vulture and you're Ned Flanders. You've both been terrible spouses and it's best to try to rekindle whatever relationship you had down the line when you both realise your shortcomings. I wish you the best and I hope you don't take my harshness the wrong way, it's not intended to kick you while you're down. I hope that you'll learn from this experience and have stronger pillars to stand on whether you reconcile or find a new partner in the future.


----------



## calif_hope

YOU NEED TO STOP THE BEGGING AND CRYING, this gives her power, the power that she has you as back up, a safety and security net.

You need to (in a nonobusive way) implement the 180 approach, see an attorney, stop talking to her about saving the marriage - start having conversations about custody, child support, the amount of debt she is responsible for.........start talking to a real estate agent about listing the house, find out what its worth. 

Put a big dose of reality on her plate.......importanlty, during this process start being the MAN you know you can be....be a gentleman, be a supportive and engaged father, be helpful around the house, go to the gym, buy some new clothes........

Maybe even go out with some friends in your new clothes....

The idea is to knock the fog out of her.......let her see that you ae working on being ready to move on.........

Key is that you stop talking about your failures as a man, father, and husband..........just become that man, father, and within the rules of the 180 the husband that you have been capable of.

Now, if you take my advice on this, your going to have to work hard.......your going to have to refrain from trying to manipulate an acknowledgement from your wife of your improvement. If she brings anyting up.....your response is I am working on me and moving on...you don't engage her.

And, you don't talk about your marriage until the OM is out.....tell her that you cannot live in a marriage with 3 people in it and you cannot continue to live in limbo...that you decided to proceed with seperation and diviorce.

About moving out.......Spring too long...part of the power trip.....shoud target maybe March 1.


----------



## tacoma

Devastated,

If you did have a chance of reconciling with your wife you have done everything in your power to blow it.

I`m sorry


----------



## Devastated2

Complexity said:


> Devastated, you know that your wife didn't selfishly seek out this affair, it was a protracted sequence of events which you admit you played a heavy hand in. This does not excuse her actions whatsoever but it explains why she's lost her romantic feelings for you. She's calculated whether the negatives outweigh the positives of going into this affair and you have to realise that this is beyond being in a fog, she's checked out. She doesn't see you as a viable option, she's seen what you've given her and feels it's not worth being stuck in this limbo. She wants the divorce regardless of your money or the lifestyle you gave her.
> 
> You can't just want her back because you now realise what you've lost. Even if she did come up to you and agree on giving you a second chance, you'll just revert to your old self a couple of months down the line. You need to fundamentally change the way you treat people, more specifically those who care about you the most. I agree with you that this guy is maybe just a distraction but that doesn't mean that once he's out of the picture, her love for you will magically reappear. She holds a tremendous amount resentment towards you.
> 
> 90% of the people on here seem to think your wife is this marauding vulture and you're Ned Flanders. You've both been terrible spouses and it's best to try to rekindle whatever relationship you had down the line when you both realise your shortcomings. I wish you the best and I hope you don't take my harshness the wrong way, it's not intended to kick you while you're down. I hope that you'll learn from this experience and have stronger pillars to stand on whether you reconcile or find a new partner in the future.



Thanks. I really appreciate your comments and honesty.


----------



## Gabriel

tacoma said:


> Devastated,
> 
> If you did have a chance of reconciling with your wife you have done everything in your power to blow it.
> 
> I`m sorry


Wow - that's harsh. Pretty much the norm for Tacoma.


----------



## Almostrecovered

if you want R then filing for divorce is your best hope to bring her out of the affair
if you are truly the horrible husband you say you are then file for divorce and set her free


plan a and b are the same


----------



## Jonesey

Almostrecovered said:


> if you want R then filing for divorce is your best hope to bring her out of the affair
> if you are truly the horrible husband you say you are then file for divorce and set her free
> 
> 
> plan a and b are the same


Well i agree, to a point.
Considering what his wife have felt and still accusing him for.

truth or made up.Is somewhat irrelevant in the grand scheme,
of it all.Problems can always be fixed.If both party is willing enough.

The question that should be asked is
Why is she still there?


----------



## Devastated2

Alright everyone, I finally grew a pair.

Tonight her entire family that is in town and I went to an activity center for about 1.5 hours. My WW had to run a few errands. Obviously, she went to see her affair partner. I confronted her when she finally got home.

I told her that I had enough of her lies and going behind my back to her affair partner. She tried to deny it, but I can finally tell when she is lying by her body language. She saw him tonight after we went to a marriage counseling session this afternoon. She says that I drove her to him by being so mean during this time after d-day. She says everytime that I am mean or have yelled at her during this time that it only makes her want to see him more. I told her fine, and I hope it works out for you. I don't care if you see him anymore, because I can't do this anymore.

I told her that I want this to work, but I can't have you parading your affair in my face any longer. She was angry because I got to end my own emotional affair, but she was caught in the middle of hers. WTF? I told her that I know it's hard and she should be with him if he makes her happy.

We hashed out the big details of what she wants, how much $, car, furniture, and when she will leave. I offered her more money so that we could use the DIY divorce forms online and she agreed. I told her that either we agree to all the terms now or I'm just going to pay the lawyer to deal with it on Monday.

I just filled out the forms on legal zoom and I'm going to get her to review them tonight.

I'm hoping she will review them and we can send them off for processing tonight. If not, I will just pay the lawyer the money and reduce the $$ she is getting from me.


----------



## Chaparral

You seem to soft/weak to be that mean. I'm wondering if you have been manipulated into thinking you're mean. I would think if you were that mean your wife would be afraid to flaunt her affair in your face. I think you need counseling to check this out. Last time I checked people are generally afraid of mean/angry people.
I'm not mean and I'm sure my wife would think if she had an affair her AP would be in danger yet your wifes affair partner has no repect for you either.

Have you been reading here?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


----------



## always_hopefull

First I'd like to say that I am so sorry that you are in this situation, secondly I am sorry for being so late to this thread, but I have been triggering pretty badly with this one and haven't been able to post. I'm not meaning to thread jack here but I feel you need to know some of my background. While I may not be as experienced and wise as many other posters in this forum I sadly have an abundance of experience in your marital situation.

I was with my exh for almost 25 years. Two and a half years ago I finally saw who he really was. I got fb messages saying he was messing around with his ex gf, she lives accross the country, but he still managed to spend a month or two back there for work each year. Then I found out there was another ons when he had my sons there for a vacation. Then I found numerous EA's, one was with his nephews wife. She asked him to go visit her so she could "make his fantasies come true". Right after that he asked if we could go visit her. He would come home at 4am from hanging with a female co-worker. There was lots of verbal abuse, discussions of my weight, telling me it was a waste to spend money on me. At one point in time there was some physical abuse, little roughing up but no punching or kicking. I had some pretty invasive surgery and came down with pneumonia after. When I was released from the hospital under his care and in need of supervision, he left to go spare for a baseball game and came home 5 hours later. He truly was a POS, there is more but I think you can get the point.

Even after all of this happened I never cheated on him. I could have easily excused my cheating with his behaviour, but when I married him I meant my vows. I honestly and truly believe there is no excuse for cheating. So when you want to buy into your wifes bs that it's part your fault, please think of me. I personally think you should pack her bags and drop her off at the OM's house, without your credit cards or car, if he wants her let him have her and support her.


----------



## working_together

chapparal said:


> You seem to soft/weak to be that mean. I'm wondering if you have been manipulated into thinking you're mean. I would think if you were that mean your wife would be afraid to flaunt her affair in your face. I think you need counseling to check this out. Last time I checked people are generally afraid of mean/angry people.
> I'm not mean and I'm sure my wife would think if she had an affair her AP would be in danger yet your wifes affair partner has no repect for you either.
> 
> Have you been reading here?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


I have been thinking the same thing, maybe I'm wrong, but you were so quick to admit to your faults. And you keep talking about how bad you were. Most abusers never admit to anything, that's why treatment isn't very successful.


----------



## Devastated2

Thanks Always Hopefull.

As much of a POS I have been to my wife, I couldn't leave her completely defenseless and out in the cold especially not after spending 9 years of my life with her and her giving me 2 sons.

My wife is convinced that she just needs some space to figure out what she wants in life because we started dating when she was 19. I know she feels like she had her partying and freedom years stolen from her. 

She is convinced that she and her AP are friends first and if she told him she never wanted a romantic relationship with him, he would understand. I respond by saying you THINK that's true, but you DON'T KNOW.


----------



## Chaparral

Devastated2 said:


> Thanks Always Hopefull.
> 
> As much of a POS I have been to my wife, I couldn't leave her completely defenseless and out in the cold especially not after spending 9 years of my life with her and her giving me 2 sons.
> 
> My wife is convinced that she just needs some space to figure out what she wants in life because we started dating when she was 19. I know she feels like she had her partying and freedom years stolen from her.
> 
> She is convinced that she and her AP are friends first and if she told him she never wanted a romantic relationship with him, he would understand. I respond by saying you THINK that's true, but you DON'T KNOW.


This is definitely not how a mean husband would respond. If this weren't sad it would be funny.


----------



## working_together

Devastated2 said:


> Alright everyone, I finally grew a pair.
> 
> Tonight her entire family that is in town and I went to an activity center for about 1.5 hours. My WW had to run a few errands. Obviously, she went to see her affair partner. I confronted her when she finally got home.
> 
> I told her that I had enough of her lies and going behind my back to her affair partner. She tried to deny it, but I can finally tell when she is lying by her body language. She saw him tonight after we went to a marriage counseling session this afternoon. She says that I drove her to him by being so mean during this time after d-day. She says everytime that I am mean or have yelled at her during this time that it only makes her want to see him more. I told her fine, and I hope it works out for you. I don't care if you see him anymore, because I can't do this anymore.
> 
> I told her that I want this to work, but I can't have you parading your affair in my face any longer. She was angry because I got to end my own emotional affair, but she was caught in the middle of hers. WTF? I told her that I know it's hard and she should be with him if he makes her happy.
> 
> We hashed out the big details of what she wants, how much $, car, furniture, and when she will leave. I offered her more money so that we could use the DIY divorce forms online and she agreed. I told her that either we agree to all the terms now or I'm just going to pay the lawyer to deal with it on Monday.
> 
> I just filled out the forms on legal zoom and I'm going to get her to review them tonight.
> 
> I'm hoping she will review them and we can send them off for processing tonight. If not, I will just pay the lawyer the money and reduce the $$ she is getting from me.


What she is saying is untrue, about how you drove her to see OM, that is bs. I am a former WS and I was yelled at etc. I never once thought of running to him because my H. was treating me poorly, I was scared sh&tless. I knew if he would find that out, it would be worse.


----------



## happyman64

Devastated,

I know you are hurting. I know that you feel your the worst husband in the world.

But you are not. I think moving ahead with the D is the right thing to do for you and your family.

Your W does not love you. And worse she is very disrespectful flaunting the A in your face. She is in the "fog".

You should use an attorney. You should use your prenup. You should not give her one penny more.

She missed her "wild" years! Wake up man!

She won't miss them when she is broke. You can still help out your boys.

You are way too nice. And it is costing you your marriage. 

It is really not about how you treated her. It is her being selfish. She wants her "wild" years before she gets too old.

Get a lawyer. Follow you prenup. All she is going to do is use the extra $$$ to party and screw the OM.

Good Luck.


----------



## always_hopefull

Devastated2 said:


> Thanks Always Hopefull.
> 
> As much of a POS I have been to my wife, I couldn't leave her completely defenseless and out in the cold especially not after spending 9 years of my life with her and her giving me 2 sons.
> 
> My wife is convinced that she just needs some space to figure out what she wants in life because *we started dating when she was 19. I know she feels like she had her partying and freedom years stolen from her*.
> 
> She is convinced that she and her AP are friends first and if she told him she never wanted a romantic relationship with him, he would understand. I respond by saying you THINK that's true, but you DON'T KNOW.


Believe me I am the last person to tell you to do something mean to your wife. However, I do think that his guy and your WW both need a good reality check. You and I both know that given their history there is little chance that this guy just wants to be friends. He may be targeting your wife thinking that she will be in for some nice spousal support. Remember he too is living in the affair fog. Being faced with the reality of having to be financially responsible for someone else and help with her children may help him see the reality of the situation. An added bonus may be that he tells her that the whole situation is too much for him. Right now hes getting the all play no pay package.

I have a question about the bolded statement, has your W ever said she felt she missed out on partying? I myself had thoughts over the years similar to this, but I realized that it was my decision to get married and have children. Is she in any individual counselling? If she isn't I think she needs it, maybe even before she can be open to MC. With some IC she may be able to get herself into a better frame of mind and begin to open up to any suggestions made by your MC.

As an alternative to dropping her off on his doorstep, what about setting her up in the family home, with the condition she starts looking for a job and gets some IC. Just make sure that some of the money she earns goes towards the bills. If you really and truly want to R with her, she needs to fix herself before she can even be in a position to fix your M.


----------



## Devastated2

happyman64 said:


> Devastated,
> 
> I know you are hurting. I know that you feel your the worst husband in the world.
> 
> But you are not. I think moving ahead with the D is the right thing to do for you and your family.
> 
> Your W does not love you. And worse she is very disrespectful flaunting the A in your face. She is in the "fog".
> 
> You should use an attorney. You should use your prenup. You should not give her one penny more.
> 
> She missed her "wild" years! Wake up man!
> 
> She won't miss them when she is broke. You can still help out your boys.
> 
> You are way too nice. And it is costing you your marriage.
> 
> It is really not about how you treated her. It is her being selfish. She wants her "wild" years before she gets too old.
> 
> Get a lawyer. Follow you prenup. All she is going to do is use the extra $$$ to party and screw the OM.
> 
> Good Luck.


My WW is going to struggle financially when we get divorced. I have no desire in punishing her and my sons in the process. I care about her very much, even though she doesn't love me romantically anymore. She devoted 9 years to supporting me and raising our boys. Her affair is wrong, but I'm not going to ignore the other 9 years we spent together because she hurt me.

I would much rather give her the extra money than give it to a lawyer. What she does with the money is her business. As long as my sons are taken care of that is all that matters to me.


----------



## Shaggy

Why is she taking the kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

Dev,

Do you realize that the more accommodating you are the less of a chance you ever have to get your wife out of her fog and get your family back? The point of the 180, exposing to family and friends, etc. is to make the affair uncomfortable if not impossible to keep going. Pardon me for my language but the way you are acting you are practically spreading your wife's legs and pointing the OM's d!ck right at her. I NEVER use this kind of language but DAMN MAN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING! Stick the screws to her and the other man so the fog will lift and she'll see what an a$$ he is and what a b!tch she is being.


----------



## Devastated2

always_hopefull said:


> Believe me I am the last person to tell you to do something mean to your wife. However, I do think that his guy and your WW both need a good reality check. You and I both know that given their history there is little chance that this guy just wants to be friends. He may be targeting your wife thinking that she will be in for some nice spousal support. Remember he too is living in the affair fog. Being faced with the reality of having to be financially responsible for someone else and help with her children may help him see the reality of the situation. An added bonus may be that he tells her that the whole situation is too much for him. Right now hes getting the all play no pay package.
> 
> I have a question about the bolded statement, has your W ever said she felt she missed out on partying? I myself had thoughts over the years similar to this, but I realized that it was my decision to get married and have children. Is she in any individual counselling? If she isn't I think she needs it, maybe even before she can be open to MC. With some IC she may be able to get herself into a better frame of mind and begin to open up to any suggestions made by your MC.
> 
> As an alternative to dropping her off on his doorstep, what about setting her up in the family home, with the condition she starts looking for a job and gets some IC. Just make sure that some of the money she earns goes towards the bills. If you really and truly want to R with her, she needs to fix herself before she can even be in a position to fix your M.


Believe me, I don't believe for a second that the are going to stop having sex. He makes her feel special and pays attention to her. Apparently, he is pretty well off financially from what she tells me. She has thrown it in my face that I'm pushing her to ask him for money because I cut her credit cards off.

My wife has mentioned that she missed out on the college experience of partying, dating, and other young adult stuff. She probably does need individual counseling, but she won't listen to me now and she won't be able to afford it without health insurance.

She is going to be living in my house Monday through Thursday while I am out of town and somewhere else when I am in town. I think that she has realized that she must get a job to survive. She is going to save it all for herself, and I really don't want to argue about it with her. 

I do want to reconcile with her, but it seems more and more impossible every day. I think that after some time has passed I will try to rekindle everything with her, but who knows what the future holds. She says she wants to be independent because she has only seriously dated 2 men including me and they were both long relationships. I agree with my wife that she needs to sort some things out in her life. She needs to figure out who she is and what she wants in life.


----------



## Devastated2

Shaggy said:


> Why is she taking the kids?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I travel for work Monday through Thursday. Primary custody isn't even an option until I find a new job.


----------



## Devastated2

Beowulf said:


> Dev,
> 
> Do you realize that the more accommodating you are the less of a chance you ever have to get your wife out of her fog and get your family back? The point of the 180, exposing to family and friends, etc. is to make the affair uncomfortable if not impossible to keep going. Pardon me for my language but the way you are acting you are practically spreading your wife's legs and pointing the OM's d!ck right at her. I NEVER use this kind of language but DAMN MAN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING! Stick the screws to her and the other man so the fog will lift and she'll see what an a$$ he is and what a b!tch she is being.


She says that I alienated her from everyone except her affair partner by dragging her through the mud. She skipped a family event to see him. She isn't going to stop until she is ready.

She didn't get that much in my opinion and she definitely isn't getting anything else.


----------



## Shaggy

How is running into anther mans bed being independent? Sorry but she's spouting BS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Devastated2

Shaggy said:


> How is running into anther mans bed being independent? Sorry but she's spouting BS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I completely agree. She isn't thinking clearly though. I'm hoping someone in her family will talk some sense into her, but I'm not counting on it.


----------



## Beowulf

Devastated2 said:


> She says that I alienated her from everyone except her affair partner by dragging her through the mud. She skipped a family event to see him. She isn't going to stop until she is ready.
> 
> She didn't get that much in my opinion and she definitely isn't getting anything else.


They all say that. It's part of the cheater's script. Wives will accuse the husband of pushing them toward the other man. Wives will demonize their husbands. Wives will rewrite the entire marriage history. IT'S WHAT THEY DO! IT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN RATIONALIZE THEIR ACTIONS.

If you want to end her affair and have a chance to save your family you will give her NOTHING. Nada. You will toss her out with only the clothes on her back if you can. You will keep the children with you. You will make her see what she is really losing.

I was lucky. My wife ended her affair on her own when she saw with her own eyes what she would really be losing. But her fog was not thick. Your wife is so in the fog you have to shine a spotlight at her for her to see. Instead you strike a match in the rain. SHE IS THE GUILTY PARTY AND DESERVES NO ACCOMMODATION. You are making her so comfortable that she has no reason to question anything.

She caused the mess but you are letting it fester and stink.

Edit: Let me put it this way. You give her a dollar and she's using it to buy condoms. GIVE HER NOTHING!


----------



## morituri

Here's you and your wife.


----------



## working_together

morituri said:


> Here's you and your wife.


I really want to laugh, but the situation is just really sad, she is so freakin' deep in the fog, he's gotta either get her out of it with some consequences, or just let her go.

Hey, btw Mori, I still haven't got that ticket....my tears must have helped


----------



## morituri

working_together said:


> I really want to laugh, but the situation is just really sad, she is so freakin' deep in the fog, he's gotta either get her out of it with some consequences, or just let her go.


I know but he's in a fog of his own.

Besides I think we need a forum dedicated to laughter.



> Hey, btw Mori, I still haven't got that ticket....my tears must have helped


I must have blacked out while I was drinking and typing, care to remind me what 'ticket' you're talking about?


----------



## warlock07

Beowulf said:


> They all say that. It's part of the cheater's script. Wives will accuse the husband of pushing them toward the other man. Wives will demonize their husbands. Wives will rewrite the entire marriage history. IT'S WHAT THEY DO! IT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN RATIONALIZE THEIR ACTIONS.
> 
> If you want to end her affair and have a chance to save your family you will give her NOTHING. Nada. You will toss her out with only the clothes on her back if you can. You will keep the children with you. You will make her see what she is really losing.
> 
> I was lucky. My wife ended her affair on her own when she saw with her own eyes what she would really be losing. But her fog was not thick. Your wife is so in the fog you have to shine a spotlight at her for her to see. Instead you strike a match in the rain. SHE IS THE GUILTY PARTY AND DESERVES NO ACCOMMODATION. You are making her so comfortable that she has no reason to question anything.
> 
> She caused the mess but you are letting it fester and stink.
> 
> Edit: Let me put it this way. You give her a dollar and she's using it to buy condoms. GIVE HER NOTHING!


:iagree:

But he is wrapped too much in his own guilt now. BS fog


----------



## morituri

We just found proof how mean you were to your cheating wife.


----------



## lordmayhem

always_hopefull said:


> First I'd like to say that I am so sorry that you are in this situation, secondly I am sorry for being so late to this thread, but I have been triggering pretty badly with this one and haven't been able to post. I'm not meaning to thread jack here but I feel you need to know some of my background. While I may not be as experienced and wise as many other posters in this forum I sadly have an abundance of experience in your marital situation.
> 
> I was with my exh for almost 25 years. Two and a half years ago I finally saw who he really was. I got fb messages saying he was messing around with his ex gf, she lives accross the country, but he still managed to spend a month or two back there for work each year. Then I found out there was another ons when he had my sons there for a vacation. Then I found numerous EA's, one was with his nephews wife. She asked him to go visit her so she could "make his fantasies come true". Right after that he asked if we could go visit her. He would come home at 4am from hanging with a female co-worker. There was lots of verbal abuse, discussions of my weight, telling me it was a waste to spend money on me. At one point in time there was some physical abuse, little roughing up but no punching or kicking. I had some pretty invasive surgery and came down with pneumonia after. When I was released from the hospital under his care and in need of supervision, he left to go spare for a baseball game and came home 5 hours later. He truly was a POS, there is more but I think you can get the point.
> 
> Even after all of this happened I never cheated on him. I could have easily excused my cheating with his behaviour, but when I married him I meant my vows. I honestly and truly believe there is no excuse for cheating. So when you want to buy into your wifes bs that it's part your fault, please think of me. I personally think you should pack her bags and drop her off at the OM's house, without your credit cards or car, if he wants her let him have her and support her.


There's always going to be those people that blame the BS for the WSs affair, that affairs ONLY happen because the BS caused it. So I can understand why the discussion triggers you.


----------



## working_together

morituri said:


> I know but he's in a fog of his own.
> 
> Besides I think we need a forum dedicated to laughter.
> 
> 
> 
> I must have blacked out while I was drinking and typing, care to remind me what 'ticket' you're talking about?


Don't want to thread jack too much...the stop sign ticket, I was having a tough day, went through the stop sign. I was on the verge of tears. I haven't received the ticket yet, I'm not complaining though.

Yes, we need a laughter thread, at least I do. The demotivators were funny.


----------



## Chaparral

Devastated2 said:


> I completely agree. She isn't thinking clearly though. I'm hoping someone in her family will talk some sense into her, but I'm not counting on it.


Your wife is thinking very clearly compared to you. Except for telling some people what she is doing you have not listened to anyone on this board except for a few that agree with you that you are mean. 

Your marriage is on the downhill slope and you are greasing the skids. Your best bet now is divorce as fast as possible and try to find someone else. Hopefully you will have something left to live on. 

You've made the worst attempt to bust up this affair of any poster I have seen so far and there have been many that could not handle the work that must be done. Time for you to raise the white flag.


----------



## Shaggy

Devastated2 said:


> I completely agree. She isn't thinking clearly though. I'm hoping someone in her family will talk some sense into her, but I'm not counting on it.


It won't.

In fact only the cold hard fact of D and actually being out without support from you might.


----------



## Devastated2

chapparal said:


> Your wife is thinking very clearly compared to you. Except for telling some people what she is doing you have not listened to anyone on this board except for a few that agree with you that you are mean.
> 
> Your marriage is on the downhill slope and you are greasing the skids. Your best bet now is divorce as fast as possible and try to find someone else. Hopefully you will have something left to live on.
> 
> You've made the worst attempt to bust up this affair of any poster I have seen so far and there have been many that could not handle the work that must be done. Time for you to raise the white flag.


*Please tell me what specifically to do then. * 

I don't want to force her out of the house and punish my boys right now. I've already made it clear that the divorce paperwork begins today. When she gets back today I am going to have her review the divorce forms and then the divorce process will officially begin.

My WW has asked me to co-sign and help her get an apartment. I told her absolutely not. I feel like she is trying to be manipulative and I'm not going to budge from what we agreed upon.

My WW position is that she just wants to have a chance to be independent and figure out what she wants in life. This kind of makes sense because we got pregnant when she was 19. Her mother is pressuring her to move in with her out of state, but my WW does not want that.

My confession for the day is that we had sex the last two nights. We both agreed that it was just sex, but I'm sure this was probably a really bad choice on my part. My WW wants to continue to have sex after we get divorced. I'm really confused.

From today on, I'm implementing the 180 and no more sex.


----------



## lordmayhem

Divorce paperwork starts today on a Saturday?

You realize the sex is part of her manipulation tactics don't you? Never underestimate the power of the P. Men have given up whole kingdoms because of it.


----------



## Devastated2

lordmayhem said:


> Divorce paperwork starts today on a Saturday?
> 
> You realize the sex is part of her manipulation tactics don't you? Never underestimate the power of the P. Men have given up whole kingdoms because of it.


LOL

I'm using legalzoom.com so as soon as she reviews the paperwork then I am going to send it in for processing.

I'm sure she thinks she is manipulating me with sex, but I haven't given her anything else and I don't plan to.


----------



## Devastated2

Okay, I just stepped my game up.

I emailed the OM's mother and all his co-workers to inform them about the affair.

My wife is going to be so pissed.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Devastated2 said:


> Okay, I just stepped my game up.
> 
> I emailed the OM's mother and all his co-workers to inform them about the affair.
> 
> My wife is going to be so pissed.



hallelujah
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

You sure take a long time to wake up, don't you? But better late than never, right?

Don't forget tested for STDs.


----------



## Eli-Zor

To complete the exposure on the OM's side the following is advised:

Waywards want contact with each other as often as they can , it is highly likely the OM is in contact with your wife during his working hours and he may be using company equipment or facilities to enable his affair. 

Within the Newbie thread there is a work exposure process and template letter. Read it, adapt it your situation and mail it so they have to sign for receipt thereof. A copy goes to his manager if you know the title or name , the HR director , Finance Director and Chairman etc. 

What normally happens is HR investigate the letter especially if you have copied in a number of senior people. The OM may not be fired , he may be disciplined or he may walk away with no damage however the threat to his job wil be very real and he will know you are not going to stand by while he destroys your family.

The template letter in the newbie thread was written by a lawyer from another forum and has been used successfully without recourse against the BS. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


----------



## Eli-Zor

Do not say anything to your wife, the exposure may take a while to trickle through. 

If when she find out and challenges you , acknowledge you are fighting for your marriage. There is no need for you to reveal how far you have exposed and to who, let them find out the hard way.


----------



## Complexity

His mother,really? and how do you know her email aswell as those of his coworkers?


----------



## the guy

Yes his MOTHER, make this affair as inconvienent and uncomfortable as possible. And continue to ask the OM side for there support and respect of ones marriage vows.

It amazes me how many poeple have no moral compass and see married poeple, hopefuly the OM mother is not one of them and joins you in your effort to end the affair.


----------



## working_together

Devastated2 said:


> Okay, I just stepped my game up.
> 
> I emailed the OM's mother and all his co-workers to inform them about the affair.
> 
> My wife is going to be so pissed.


Finally!!!!

And for god's sake, don't have sex with her anymore, she's a pro at this manipulation...I'm not sure what she means about sex after divorce, but that's a big NO.


----------



## TRy

Devastated2 said:


> *Please tell me what specifically to do then. *


 Do not file on line. See an attorney and fight her for every thing. You are being the nice guy in hopes of winning her back. You will live to regret it. 

You are being played the fool as she regularly f*cks the OM. You are even funding her free time by paying all the bills and giving her a charge card to use. Cut her off now. 



Devastated2 said:


> *Please tell me what specifically to do then. *
> 
> I don't want to force her out of the house and punish my boys right now. I've already made it clear that the divorce paperwork begins today. When she gets back today I am going to have her review the divorce forms and then the divorce process will officially begin.


 You still do not get it. Your wife is cake eating. She wants to continue the affair and have you as a backup. Her getting a separation so that she can decide what to do, is her saying that she wants a chance to see if the other man works out. You are officially plan B right now. You are the fall back. 

You saying that you are filing for divorce as you try to work it out is weak and will cost you your best chance at R. You must tell her to decide right now. Tell her that if she cannot choose you and go full NC with the OM that it is over and mean it. She may chose the other man, but if she does she was going to anyways. You will just find out sooner and on your terms not hers. Truthfully the odds are not good, but the time to man up is now. It is you best chance.


----------



## tacoma

Complexity said:


> His mother,really? and how do you know her email aswell as those of his coworkers?


Facebook most probably.


----------



## Beowulf

Devastated2 said:


> *Please tell me what specifically to do then. *
> 
> I don't want to force her out of the house and punish my boys right now. I've already made it clear that the divorce paperwork begins today. When she gets back today I am going to have her review the divorce forms and then the divorce process will officially begin.
> 
> My WW has asked me to co-sign and help her get an apartment. I told her absolutely not. I feel like she is trying to be manipulative and I'm not going to budge from what we agreed upon.
> 
> My WW position is that she just wants to have a chance to be independent and figure out what she wants in life. This kind of makes sense because we got pregnant when she was 19. Her mother is pressuring her to move in with her out of state, but my WW does not want that.
> 
> My confession for the day is that we had sex the last two nights. We both agreed that it was just sex, but I'm sure this was probably a really bad choice on my part. My WW wants to continue to have sex after we get divorced. I'm really confused.
> 
> From today on, I'm implementing the 180 and no more sex.


Yes you do want to force her out of the house. Yes you do want to punish the boys if they are encouraging or otherwise assisting in their mother having an affair. Give her nothing. Anything you give her you are giving the POS OM that is having sex with your wife and trying to steal her away. If someone broke into your house and tried to take your possession would you hold the door open for him as he left with your stuff?

Exposing the affair is a good start but you have a pre-nup. USE IT. MAKE HER AND THE OM SUFFER. Right now she is looking at the OM as a white knight in shining armor. She doesn't see all his faults because they only see each other during times that are pleasant. This is the fantasy she is living. By exposing the affair far and wide you make it harder for them to see each other in secret. At some point she will see that the OM has more faults than she attributes to you. By making their affair difficult you will accelerate the process and she will see him for what he truly is. After all, what kind of man has an affair with a MARRIED WOMAN! He is scum and eventually his true colors will shine through. Better she sees them now than after it is too late for you and your family.

Edit: And stop having sex with her. I would say you don't know where it's been but you actually do and it's not someplace you want to put yourself if you get my meaning.


----------



## Devastated2

Eli-Zor said:


> To complete the exposure on the OM's side the following is advised:
> 
> Waywards want contact with each other as often as they can , it is highly likely the OM is in contact with your wife during his working hours and he may be using company equipment or facilities to enable his affair.
> 
> Within the Newbie thread there is a work exposure process and template letter. Read it, adapt it your situation and mail it so they have to sign for receipt thereof. A copy goes to his manager if you know the title or name , the HR director , Finance Director and Chairman etc.
> 
> What normally happens is HR investigate the letter especially if you have copied in a number of senior people. The OM may not be fired , he may be disciplined or he may walk away with no damage however the threat to his job wil be very real and he will know you are not going to stand by while he destroys your family.
> 
> The template letter in the newbie thread was written by a lawyer from another forum and has been used successfully without recourse against the BS.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


The company that he works for is very small. I emailed the 3 other people whose email addresses where on the company website.

I should probably mail a letter though. I did notice that the person who appears to be the owner was on his FB and I emailed him through FB also.


----------



## Devastated2

My STBXW is furious at me for nearly everything that I do. I don't think that she even knows that I emailed so many of his friends.

Earlier today, I took our youngest to play at McDonald's without telling her. She completely flipped out at me. She was yelling, pushing and hitting me for about 20 minutes straight. I'm starting to see how much of a monster she can be when she doesn't get what she wants.

She just got pissed at me because I wouldn't give her the leather living room set and the dining room table. She stormed out of the house and is going to spend the night at the OM's house. I told her to have fun and she said that she wants to be around people who are nice to her. She is still going to pick up her brother about 4 AM to take him to the airport.


----------



## working_together

Beowulf said:


> Yes you do want to force her out of the house. Yes you do want to punish the boys if they are encouraging or otherwise assisting in their mother having an affair. Give her nothing. Anything you give her you are giving the POS OM that is having sex with your wife and trying to steal her away. If someone broke into your house and tried to take your possession would you hold the door open for him as he left with your stuff?
> 
> Exposing the affair is a good start but you have a pre-nup. USE IT. MAKE HER AND THE OM SUFFER. Right now she is looking at the OM as a white knight in shining armor. She doesn't see all his faults because they only see each other during times that are pleasant. This is the fantasy she is living. By exposing the affair far and wide you make it harder for them to see each other in secret. At some point she will see that the OM has more faults than she attributes to you. By making their affair difficult you will accelerate the process and she will see him for what he truly is. After all, what kind of man has an affair with a MARRIED WOMAN! He is scum and eventually his true colors will shine through. Better she sees them now than after it is too late for you and your family.
> 
> Edit: And stop having sex with her. I would say you don't know where it's been but you actually do and it's not someplace you want to put yourself if you get my meaning.


I'm not sure how an 8 year old can assist or encourage an affair? It's never fair to involve kids in this mess. His son already knows his mother cheated on his dad, and now to punish? no, that's not right.


----------



## working_together

This story is a bit incredible, but I guess it happens that a WW is so blatently disrespectful, so resentful, that she will not even end the affair, and then she wants to have sex with her husband even though she's doing it with OM????? Ok, I get that she's manipulating him, but whoa, that's a bit much. Talk about feeling dirty. And I can't imagine why you would want to have sex with your wife knowing she's getting it from OM basically a day apart, maybe hours....common, that's really gross.

And now she's beating you up because she can't have the leather sofa and love seat. You need to get her out of there pronto, today, don't give her the choice, don't co sign for her. R. in this situation sounds pretty slim, you've cave way too much.

If you read this story what would you think?


----------



## warlock07

Tell the OM that you were having sex the last couple of days and to enjoy the sloppy seconds. That should be a good start to their fights


----------



## morituri

working_together said:


> This story is a bit incredible, but I guess it happens that a WW is so blatently disrespectful, so resentful, that she will not even end the affair, and then she wants to have sex with her husband even though she's doing it with OM????? Ok, I get that she's manipulating him, but whoa, that's a bit much. Talk about feeling dirty. And I can't imagine why you would want to have sex with your wife knowing she's getting it from OM basically a day apart, maybe hours....common, that's really gross.
> 
> And now she's beating you up because she can't have the leather sofa and love seat. You need to get her out of there pronto, today, don't give her the choice, don't co sign for her. R. in this situation sounds pretty slim, you've cave way too much.
> 
> If you read this story what would you think?


I'm beginning to believe that her affair is her way of getting revenge for his EA. He said that she always held it over his head.

Devastated2, let her know that she should be happy you told her no to having that leather sofa set because here's a golden opportunity for the OM to buy her a brand new leather sofa set, instead of getting a handy me down from you.



warlock07 said:


> Tell the OM that you were having sex the last couple of days and to enjoy the sloppy seconds. That should be a good start to their fights


:rofl: :lol:

Well said warlock07.


----------



## Chaparral

Devastated2 said:


> My STBXW is furious at me for nearly everything that I do. I don't think that she even knows that I emailed so many of his friends.
> 
> Earlier today, I took our youngest to play at McDonald's without telling her. She completely flipped out at me. She was yelling, pushing and hitting me for about 20 minutes straight.
> 
> She just got pissed at me because I wouldn't give her the leather living room set and the dining room table. She stormed out of the house and is going to spend the night at the OM's house. I told her to have fun and she said that she wants to be around people who are nice to her.


You are sooooooooooo mean.


----------



## warlock07

Devastated2 said:


> My STBXW is furious at me for nearly everything that I do. I don't think that she even knows that I emailed so many of his friends.
> 
> Earlier today, I took our youngest to play at McDonald's without telling her. She completely flipped out at me. She was yelling, pushing and hitting me for about 20 minutes straight.
> 
> She just got pissed at me because I wouldn't give her the leather living room set and the dining room table. She stormed out of the house and is going to spend the night at the OM's house. I told her to have fun and she said that she wants to be around people who are nice to her.


I think she does not realize the position she is in. All the niceties will go away once she starts acting like a b!tch


----------



## Chaparral

She left, abandoned the family. Change the locks.


----------



## working_together

morituri said:


> I'm beginning to believe that her affair is her way of getting revenge for his EA. He said that she always held it over his head.
> 
> Devastated2, let her know that she should be happy you told her no to having that leather sofa set because here's a golden opportunity for the OM to buy her a brand new leather sofa set, instead of getting a handy me down from you.
> 
> 
> 
> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> Well said warlock07.


I see that it's some sort of revenge, I think it's worse than he's letting on, or believes. The fact that he told his young son of the affair demonstrates a lack of impulse control, and bigger problems. When a woman resorts to physical violence, it's gotta be pretty bad. Can the fog cause that???

Maybe I'm wrong though.


----------



## Chaparral

working_together said:


> I see that it's some sort of revenge, I think it's worse than he's letting on, or believes. The fact that he told his young son of the affair demonstrates a lack of impulse control, and bigger problems. When a woman resorts to physical violence, it's gotta be pretty bad. Can the fog cause that???
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong though.


Looks like she's just beating the meaness out of him.


----------



## lordmayhem

When a man resorts to hitting a woman, its jail time. Most of the time when its the other way around, we look the other way and laugh it off.


----------



## morituri

chapparal said:


> Looks like she's just beating the meaness out of him.


Of course you do realize that it is his fault that she attacked him and is going to go to the OM to give him sloppy seconds, don't you?


----------



## working_together

lordmayhem said:


> When a man resorts to hitting a woman, its jail time. Most of the time when its the other way around, we look the other way and laugh it off.


I don't think we laugh about it, we just think the woman is a crazy lunatic. The we think she must be on drugs yada yada yada. Maybe I'm just thinking of some clients I used to have...This one woman took her husbands wooden leg and beat him with it. I enter into the home, he's all black and blue, wooden leg is no where to be seen. I couldn't do much for him except get that woman out of there, and the kids to a relative. but I feel bad now for kind of chuckling about it to co-workers, like he should have been man enough to stick up for himself. I was more laughing at the wooden leg thing though.


----------



## working_together

morituri said:


> Of course you do realize that it is his fault that she attacked him and is going to go to the OM to give him sloppy seconds, don't you?


"he's not nice"...


----------



## morituri

working_together said:


> I don't think we laugh about it, we just think the woman is a crazy lunatic. The we think she must be on drugs yada yada yada. Maybe I'm just thinking of some clients I used to have...This one woman took her husbands wooden leg and beat him with it. I enter into the home, he's all black and blue, wooden leg is no where to be seen. I couldn't do much for him except get that woman out of there, and the kids to a relative. but I feel bad now for kind of chuckling about it to co-workers, like he should have been man enough to stick up for himself. I was more laughing at the wooden leg thing though.


Were there any other legal consequences for the woman who attacked her husband with the wooden leg?


----------



## Beowulf

working_together said:


> I'm not sure how an 8 year old can assist or encourage an affair? It's never fair to involve kids in this mess. His son already knows his mother cheated on his dad, and now to punish? no, that's not right.


Sorry, I believe I may have confused this thread with another where the boys were encouraging/excusing the affair.

Fact is if he has a pre nup and can literally toss her out with almost nothing he should. He should also keep custody of the children as they will be better off with him than her. If she gets custody they will be exposed to her affair partner for sure and that will not be healthy. The harder he makes it on his wife and her affair partner the better.


----------



## Beowulf

warlock07 said:


> Tell the OM that you were having sex the last couple of days and to enjoy the sloppy seconds. That should be a good start to their fights


Oh...that's beautiful! :rofl:


----------



## Shaggy

Devastated2 said:


> My STBXW is furious at me for nearly everything that I do. I don't think that she even knows that I emailed so many of his friends.
> 
> Earlier today, I took our youngest to play at McDonald's without telling her. She completely flipped out at me. She was yelling, pushing and hitting me for about 20 minutes straight. I'm starting to see how much of a monster she can be when she doesn't get what she wants.
> 
> She just got pissed at me because I wouldn't give her the leather living room set and the dining room table. She stormed out of the house and is going to spend the night at the OM's house. I told her to have fun and she said that she wants to be around people who are nice to her. She is still going to pick up her brother about 4 AM to take him to the airport.


You should have caught that on a VAR and you should have call the cops on her. 

She physically assaulted you and then went to the OM.


----------



## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> You should have caught that on a VAR and you should have call the cops on her.
> 
> She physically assaulted you and then went to the OM.


Agreed, it may have been a way to shock her into the reality of her behavior.


----------



## morituri

Beowulf said:


> Agreed, it may have been a way to shock her into the reality of her behavior.


Alas, Dev is too worried about 'not being nice' to his cheating wife to even contemplate doing that.


----------



## Beowulf

morituri said:


> Alas, Dev is too worried about 'not being nice' to his cheating wife to even contemplate doing that.


Nice guys end up alone.


----------



## morituri

Beowulf said:


> Nice guys end up alone.


Or dead.


----------



## Devastated2

Here is a quick update.

She actually did not leave the house. Apparently, she was just sitting in her car in the garage. 

I'm not sure if it was because I said some mean things to her before that which made her second guess her decision to leave(ex: we are getting a divorce because you spread your legs for another man, she doesn't have the decency to stop having the affair until we get divorced, etc.). It's also possible that the OM was too busy or something, but I doubt it. He seems pretty smitten with her too.

I know I shouldn't have said those mean things to her, but I have trouble handling my emotions when we are in a heated argument. This is something I am going to have to work on regardless.

Anyways, I was in our bedroom talking on the phone to a friend when she walked in our bedroom. I quickly got off of the phone and she was quick to demand who I was talking to. I didn't tell her which made her even more mad. I left the bedroom and she locked herself in our bathroom.

I had her brother go console her. He told me that she "has had enough of our relationship" and "doesn't want to be with me anymore". She was so mad at me that she slept in her car in the garage until our oldest woke up vomitting and her brother went to get her.

After cleaning up vomit, she slept in the living room with both of our sick sons. 

When I woke up this morning, she immediately went to the office.

My goal for today is to ignore her (Plan B) and to be as positive as possibl when I interact with her.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Key for you now is to say little , be polite and professional . In parallel break the affair bond in every way you can , exposure, financially securing yourself or any other means that are legal . I used to shake my head at the cheatersville suggestion but having seen it work elsewhere in another guise ( a web site a BS created with photos, names and the story) I suggest you think of it as an option , you require a good photo of OM. Once done mail his family the link.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Get a VAR !!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated2

Here is another update.

The OM called me and we spoke for about 20 minutes. I guess the FB messages to his mother and friends and the email to his co-workers got his attention. He tried to assure me that they are friends first and foremost and that I was what ruined my marriage with my EA.

I told him that I think we can resolve everything if he is out of the picture. He agreed to cut off all contact with her until the divorce is final. I agreed to email everyone and let them know that we spoke and are trying to work together during this difficult time. I made sure to point out that we have been having sex to the OM, but it didn't seem to bother him because they are primarily friends.

I spoke with my wife about speaking to the OM this morning and how I emailed his co-workers. She told me that she hates me and wants nothing to do with me. She says that I am trying to make is difficult for her to leave and I am trying to force her to stay. She is mad that I ruined her life and the the OM's life. She reiterated that she doesn't want to try to save our marriage and she just wants me to let her leave.

I know she is very upset now. Does anyone see any hope of reconciliation at this point? I'm leaving town on Monday for work and won't be back until Thursday. I'm really looking for some advice to at least try for a reconciliation. 

It really does seem like my EA is what ended our marriage in my wife's eyes. She says that she has been wanting out of our marriage for a while, but didn't have the money and felt trapped. In her mind, our marriage was already over when they had sex.

I think my situation is probably very different than a lot of others. My wife says she felt trapped and couldn't leave. She reiterates that all of the hurtful things that I have said and my EA is what killed our marriage.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sounds fishy , why are you negotiating with a wayward and agreeing terms . You do not mail his family and cover his ass what a load of bulls**t.


----------



## tacoma

Beowulf said:


> Sorry, I believe I may have confused this thread with another where the boys were encouraging/excusing the affair.


I think you can be forgiven the titles are so similar I keep mixing them up.

:scratchhead:


----------



## TRy

Devastated2 said:


> My wife says she felt trapped and couldn't leave. She reiterates that all of the hurtful things that I have said and my EA is what killed our marriage.


 It is called blame shifting. Every cheater does it. 

What makes your wife's actions most despicable, is that she has been bad mouthing you behind your back to your children so that they would accept the OM in there lives. No matter what you say now, your relationship with your children will forever be negatively impacted by this. You will move on. Get married and have more children. You relationship with the new children will be stronger and bring you more happiness, while the OM will never really be their father. When they one day resent their mother for having hurt their relationship with their father, be ready to fully embrace them as they were just kids, too young to understand that they were being manipulated by their mother.


----------



## morituri

Here we go again, the old blame game to make you feel bad.

One more time. Here are the facts:

1. She chose out of her own free will to stay married to you after your EA ended. 

2. She reconciled but never forgave you. 

3. She now has an exit affair, an EA at least, and now wants out of the marriage and blames you for the demise of the marriage.

4. She takes no ownership for her shortcomings as a wife and for her affair.

There can be no reconciliation until she is willing to end her affair and show remorse for having betrayed you. Unfortunately it seems that she is not the type of person who is capable of doing that. You need to follow *The 180 degree rules* and *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559*.


----------



## happyman64

D2,
You cannot reconcile with a wife that is a wayward wife. If she hates you so much show her the door. No money, no furniture. Of course she hates you because the OM looks like Prince Charming. Just friends. Right! He is a ********* just like your wife is acting.

Time to man up my friend. Get the divorce done and get her out living with the OM.

If she hates you so bad then get your custody agreement done, kiss your boys goodbye and tell your wife adios......

This does not mean she will not wise up over time. Who knows? Take the time apart to make yourself a better person and a better Dad. You have no control over this situation. You certainly have no control over your wife. She is better off gone until she gets her head straight and calms down.

Over time her opinion of you might change. But in the end, it is your opinion of you that really matters. And from what you have written you need to do some work on you right now before you lose your boys too. Stop being a cupcake. Do not make her leaving you easy. If she is a WW then give her what she deserves. Nada. Take care of your boys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Everything coming out of her mouth right now is affair babble.

Don't listen to her ,don't try to reason with her, and do not negotiate.

Your EA is done. It isn't why she is like this but it is an excuse she is using to justify her PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Devastated2

It really seems like her affair is more of an EA than a PA. 

My WW says that she is going to move out of state with her family.


----------



## happyman64

D2,
She is still ranting. 

She is moving out of state with her family? Don't you two have children?

It is not that easy to walk away. 

You really need to call her out on her nonsense.

HM64


----------



## morituri

Devastated2 said:


> It really seems like her affair is more of an EA than a PA.


I was thinking the same thing -though an EA can be just as bad as a PA - because most wives involved in a PA seldom have sex with their husbands at the same rate they did before they started having sex with their lovers. A few will have more sex with their husbands but most will cut down on the amount to practically zero because they feel like they are 'betraying' their lover - go figure.



> My WW says that she is going to move out of state with her family.


Until she actually does so, it should be put in the 'show me first' folder


----------



## TRy

Devastated2 said:


> It really seems like her affair is more of an EA than a PA.


 She is having sex with him so it is a PA too. She is having both a EA and PA, do not let her fool you otherwise.



Devastated2 said:


> My WW says that she is going to move out of state with her family.


 She is the cheater, she should not get to make the rules. Get an attorney right now. Do not warn her. Have the attorney stop her from taking the children out of state. Do this fast.


----------



## Beowulf

TRy said:


> She is having sex with him so it is a PA too. She is having both a EA and PA, do not let her fool you otherwise.
> 
> She is the cheater, she should not get to make the rules. Get an attorney right now. Do not warn her. Have the attorney stop her from taking the children out of state. Do this fast.


She taking the kids out of state?! I would put a stop to that right away. She does that and good luck ever seeing them on a regular basis ever again.


----------



## warlock07

Or 
maybe he kicked her out/not a viable alternative. So saving face for now


----------



## Devastated2

Here is the latest:

My STBXW is going to try to stay in the area so I can see our boys more. She said she will only move to her parents if she has to.

We submitted our information to legalzoom.com to officially begin the divorce process. I'm completely against it, but she is not into fixing our marriage right now. The paperwork should arrive in 5 to 7 days and then we can mail the forms into the state.

I have learned quite a few things in this last week. There is no one size fits all approach to handling an affair. My wife was already gone from our marriage when her affair happened. I was just too dense to realize it.

I don't think calling my WW's family, emailing the OM's co-workers, friends, and family made a difference at all. When it is all said and done, my wife was already lost at that point. 

Through this process, I realized that I have a lot of changes that I need to make in my life. I would appreciate it if anyone would like to point out some of the changes that I need to make in my life. 

A few things that I need to work on are:
1. Respecting other people.
2. Managing my emotions/anger during arguments.
3. Earning the respect of others.
4. Being less selfish.
5. Not being a coward (telling the OMs co-workers)
6. Learn to appreciate the important people in my life.
7. Work on being less of Mr. Nice Guy and more of an alpha male.
8. Stop being so trusting of other people.
9. Don't always put my own self interests first.
10. Learn to treat the people who are important to me better.


The OM told me that he was going to cut off all contact with her which turned out to be a complete and total lie. I really don't care, but I'm definitely not bending over backwards to help my STBXW at all. I wouldn't be surprised if my shady ass STBXW and the OM worked together to make me think that they were going to stop talking. She tried to tell me that he is done with her. They have been texting quite a bit since he told her that he didn't want to talk to her anymore.

I'm obviously disappointed that they are both liars, but they can have each other as far as I am concerned.


----------



## COguy

Don't go to legalzoom. Get a damn lawyer.

It's perfectly normal to prevent your wife in a divorce from moving out of area with the kids. You can also prevent them from being involved with OM for a time (not sure if this sticks after D or just in separation).

A lawyer will fight for your rights, don't let this one manipulate you.


----------



## Complexity

This is pretty much what I said all along. Some people on here do think there's only a one size fits approach to ending an affair and assume all WWs are the same. Your list is pretty much spot on. Your best bet would be reconciliation in the future ( if you want it), right now it's best for you to take care of your self and your children.


----------



## 67flh

devasatated, you must be a man of some means,otherwise you wouldn't of been smart enough to have the pre-nup. but you leave me scratching my head by being foolish by using legalzoom for a divorce! your setting yourself up for a royal screwing.


----------



## lordmayhem

Complexity said:


> This is pretty much what I said all along. Some people on here do think there's only a one size fits approach to ending an affair and assume all WWs are the same. Your list is pretty much spot on. Your best bet would be reconciliation in the future ( if you want it), right now it's best for you to take care of your self and your children.


Please specify what "one size fits all approach" is wrong. There''s always other approaches. His wife is in an exit affair, which I will add, he did not know until now. His WW and OM did act according to the general script, which upon exposure, they say they will go NC, when in fact, they simply take it further underground. There's STILL the blameshifting and justifying the affair.


----------



## turnera

Devastated, I assume you're in the US? If so, as far as I know, it is ILLEGAL for your wife to move your kids out of YOUR state without YOUR written permission. If you don't at the very least go to a lawyer for a free consultation, you won't have enough knowledge to prevent this.


----------



## Devastated2

Thanks everyone.

I just emailed the lawyer to engage his services. I can't trust my STBXW and a professional is probably the best option here.

I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I have accumulated a ~$100K in retirement accounts.


----------



## spudster

Tell the lawyer you want to press forward with the terms of the prenup. Nothing wrong with turning the tables on your wife. You extended the olive branch to her and she grabbed it and smacked you in the face with it.


----------



## Beowulf

spudster said:


> Tell the lawyer you want to press forward with the terms of the prenup. Nothing wrong with turning the tables on your wife. You extended the olive branch to her and she grabbed it and smacked you in the face with it.


:iagree:

Why would you give her anything extra. She is slapping you in the face and you are paying her for it.


----------



## Devastated2

This is tough. I don't want to hurt my boys. I think it's definitely a good thing to rely on an attorney.

I definitely have no plans to make her life easier than necessary though.


----------



## ashamed74

If the marriage is over then probably best to kick OM's ass for kicks. I know I would. The only guarantee I can think of when an OM takes one's wife should be a severe, humiliating ass kicking.


----------



## Chaparral

Devastated2 said:


> This is tough. I don't want to hurt my boys. I think it's definitely a good thing to rely on an attorney.
> 
> I definitely have no plans to make her life easier than necessary though.


You know adivorce can be called off at anytime if the two of you somehow decide to reconcile. By the same token if you give up the very least you are required to you can always give more later and not be obligated to keep it up.

Doing that gives you a huge advantage in you future dealings with your stbxw. If she wants to be a jerk, you can withhold some of your support. Otherwise she is going to be using your money on other things besides your kids. I'm pretty sure you don't want your money ending up financing her cheating and new single lifestyle.


----------



## calif_hope

Your making progress - in stages - it's best to proceed with the divorce - work on yourself - maybe with things calming down as you proceed with what your wife thinks she wants - she will see the growth and development you have made as well as the reality of what she is asking for - who knows. Hanging on too tight often makes what you are trying to hang onto only slip away!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

D2,
Yes you had an EA. Yes you hurt your wife. Yes you have issues you need to work on to be a better man, husband and maybe father.

But guess what. Your wife had an EA and a PA. And yes, cheaters lie. 

You will not lose your boys. You will lose a wayward wife however.

Use you r attorney and stick with the prenup. All she is doing is rushing into another relationship. Oy yeah! Like they do not have issues.

Step back. Fix yourself. Love your boys. I can guarantee you she will be calling you sooner or later. Who knows you might still love her but most likely you will not. There is better out there. go find it.

Life continues.....

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

Devastated2 said:


> This is tough. I don't want to hurt my boys. I think it's definitely a good thing to rely on an attorney.
> 
> I definitely have no plans to make her life easier than necessary though.


You aren't. Hurting you boys. You can continue to ake their lives very rich, what you will do however is to cut your cheating wife off from your funding and support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

Devastated2 said:


> This is tough. I don't want to hurt my boys. I think it's definitely a good thing to rely on an attorney.
> 
> I definitely have no plans to make her life easier than necessary though.


Definitely rely on attorney's advice here. Here's a question. Is going for custody not an option for you? If you enforce the prenup and have enough funds to make their lives comfortable why aren't they staying with you in the family home? If she is shacking up with OM that doesn't sound like a situation I would want my children exposed to. Obviously from what you've written she isn't very stable right now. I would think you would be in a better position to offer them stability since you weren't the one that was dishonest and broke your marriage vows.


----------



## Shaggy

How is it going?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Devastated2

Here is the latest update.

I would love the custody, but it isn't possible with my current job where I travel Monday through Thursday right now.

When I got home Thursday night we talked. She wants me to give her some money now so she can get a place by March 1st. I told her about me using an attorney and it pissed her off. My attorney said not to give her anything until it gets reviewed by a judge. I'm not giving her anything until my attorney gives me the green light.

She is completely set on the divorce. Reconciliation now or in the future isn't even an option in her mind.

Friday night she went out and didn't even come home until like 9am on Saturday. She logged into my FB and saw a conversation that she got pissed about. A friend of mine were talking about the pre-nup, her getting what I want her to have, cutting her out of a picture, and introducing me to some of his girlfriend's friends after the divorce. She called me two faced and was mad because I was laughing about her situation. (LOL in the FB messages)

Saturday night she went on and on about how I stole money from her by having a pre-nup and that the pre-nup only protected me. She is pissed because I kept depositing money into my individual accounts that she can't access. She threatened to get a lawyer and teach me a lesson about how to treat people. She said that it wasn't fair that she had to sign the pre-nup and that only my assets were protected. She threatened to try and get the pre-nup voided because it was signed 8 days befor our wedding and after all the plans were made. She said that I took advantage of her because she always just gave me her paychecks (they weren't that much, but she did give them to me) and I used her money to pay for household expenses she charged on my credit card while I funded my 401ks.

Both her and the OM have threatened to sue me for defamation and spreading rumors about them. In my emails, I said the affair is ongoing. She said they were just talking at that point and not having sex anymore so technically I was lying and spreading rumors.

I'm a little worried, but I don't plan to give her anything else. I'm starting to look forward to her not being around even though I am going to miss her.

My STBXW wants me to watch the boys every weekend or else I am a bad father. I feel like she is trying to use me as her babysitter so she can go party and date a bunch of people. I told her I can only commit to every other weekend and now she calls me an absent father. Oh well, I'm never going to be able to please her anyway.

I'm planning on selling the house in June because I have to wait three years because of the first time homebuyers credit. I'm planning on moving into the city so I can be around other young single people. I'm going to try and find a roomate, but I will just sell the house if I can't.


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## happyman64

Devastated2 said:


> Here is the latest update.
> 
> I would love the custody, but it isn't possible with my current job where I travel Monday through Thursday right now.
> 
> When I got home Thursday night we talked. She wants me to give her some money now so she can get a place by March 1st. I told her about me using an attorney and it pissed her off. My attorney said not to give her anything until it gets reviewed by a judge. I'm not giving her anything until my attorney gives me the green light.
> 
> She is completely set on the divorce. Reconciliation now or in the future isn't even an option in her mind.
> 
> Friday night she went out and didn't even come home until like 9am on Saturday. She logged into my FB and saw a conversation that she got pissed about. A friend of mine were talking about the pre-nup, her getting what I want her to have, cutting her out of a picture, and introducing me to some of his girlfriend's friends after the divorce. She called me two faced and was mad because I was laughing about her situation. (LOL in the FB messages)
> 
> Saturday night she went on and on about how I stole money from her by having a pre-nup and that the pre-nup only protected me. She is pissed because I kept depositing money into my individual accounts that she can't access. She threatened to get a lawyer and teach me a lesson about how to treat people. She said that it wasn't fair that she had to sign the pre-nup and that only my assets were protected. She threatened to try and get the pre-nup voided because it was signed 8 days befor our wedding and after all the plans were made. She said that I took advantage of her because she always just gave me her paychecks (they weren't that much, but she did give them to me) and I used her money to pay for household expenses she charged on my credit card while I funded my 401ks.
> 
> Both her and the OM have threatened to sue me for defamation and spreading rumors about them. In my emails, I said the affair is ongoing. She said they were just talking at that point and not having sex anymore so technically I was lying and spreading rumors.
> 
> I'm a little worried, but I don't plan to give her anything else. I'm starting to look forward to her not being around even though I am going to miss her.
> 
> My STBXW wants me to watch the boys every weekend or else I am a bad father. I feel like she is trying to use me as her babysitter so she can go party and date a bunch of people. I told her I can only commit to every other weekend and now she calls me an absent father. Oh well, I'm never going to be able to please her anyway.
> 
> I'm planning on selling the house in June because I have to wait three years because of the first time homebuyers credit. I'm planning on moving into the city so I can be around other young single people. I'm going to try and find a roomate, but I will just sell the house if I can't.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Glad to see that you have become emotionally strong to weather her temper tantrums and move on with your life after you divorce her.


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## happyman64

D2
Stick to your plan. Your wife is all about her. She is not thinking of the kids at all. Only herself. You are a good dad and that will not change.

And yeah she wants to date as in screw lots of OM.

Keep your $$$ close and work through your attorney.

Do not think about R with her. It is not even in her mind. She just wants to be footloose and fancy free on your dime.

Reality with the kids on her weekends plus a real job with real bills and her paying rent will be a nice smack of the real world for her. She already thinks she is single.

Selfish, selfish, selfish.

Move on with your life. There is happiness around the corner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

happyman64 said:


> Reality with the kids on her weekends plus a real job with real bills and her paying rent will be a nice smack of the real world for her.


Yep she's going to find out what it means to get up every morning real early, prepare the kids for school, and go to work at a job she'll probably hate because it doesn't pay her that well to begin with, and the work is back breaking and far from glamourous (can you say cheeseburger! cheeseburger' cheeseburger' no fries! three times really fast?). That is unless the OM is stupid enough to allow her to move in with the kids and then he's going to be her meal ticket (something I doubt is going to happen).


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## Shaggy

Wow, ask your lawyer hw to make it extra humiliating to her. Seriously, she is an affair and is angry that you are sticking up for yourself.

What a hideous piece of work she is,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

The fact that she didn't come home is really awful. Potty you didn't change the locks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

> Both her and the OM have threatened to sue me for defamation and spreading rumors about them. In my emails, I said the affair is ongoing. She said they were just talking at that point and not having sex anymore so technically I was lying and spreading rumors.


Defamation my ass. Dare them if they can. What about her facebook snooping? Tell her you will have a police report filed for invasion of privacy. 

She is in b!tch mode now. She will try to bleed you dry if she can. Don't try to act nice or fair now. You can always give her more later on if you can. Clean her up for what you can. Wear your own b!tch armour for now. I hope your lawyer is a shark.


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## Initfortheduration

You only have to wait to sell, if you actually made money on the house. If you made money in this housing market that would require you to pay taxes on it, you must be a real estate genius.


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## Devastated2

I'm sure reality will hit her pretty hard when she get into her regular routine of taking the kids to school, going to school herself, and going to work until about 8-9 pm during the week. She is going to have to find some time to squeeze in studying for school, and she is talking about getting a part time job on the weekends. She has never handled stress very well in the past so this could be interesting.

There is a small amount of equity in the house. I live in Texas where the real estate market has basically been flat to slightly down for the last 3 years.

Does anyone think that I would be an absent father if I only saw my sons every other weekend? I'm planning on calling them everyday in the mornings and before bedtime. The next time she mentions me watching the kids every weekend, I am going to remind her how she went out and didn't come home last Friday night and tell her that I'm not going to be her babysitter so she can spend time with other men. I will probably try to spend some time with the boys during the day for selfish reasons, but I'm definitely going to watch them every weekend night.


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## Beowulf

Dev,

Think of it this way. If you have the kids every single weekend how is that going to allow you to move on and have a social life? She should be able to go out and party every weekend while you stay home and watch the kids? That sounds like a great deal for her doesn't it? How will you find a good woman if you are constantly propping up this one even after she's gone?

And if reconciliation is in any way something you'd want to think about you need her to snap out of the fog asap. That will only happen when reality gives her a good smack.


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## Devastated2

Beowulf said:


> Dev,
> 
> Think of it this way. If you have the kids every single weekend how is that going to allow you to move on and have a social life? She should be able to go out and party every weekend while you stay home and watch the kids? That sounds like a great deal for her doesn't it? How will you find a good woman if you are constantly propping up this one even after she's gone?
> 
> And if reconciliation is in any way something you'd want to think about you need her to snap out of the fog asap. That will only happen when reality gives her a good smack.


Good point. Yeah, I'm not planning on watching the kids every weekend. I might try to see them for a few hours during the day, but I have already told her that I can not commit to watching them every weekend.


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## turnera

Devastated2 said:


> Does anyone think that I would be an absent father if I only saw my sons every other weekend?


Well, I know you want to stick it to her, but this is what I tell people in your situation:

Once you have kids, you don't get to be selfish any more. Until they turn 18, your #1 priority should be spending as much time with your kids as possible, because they are gone far too soon and because your main job right now is to be your child's compass, to show them how to grow up to be an upstanding, moral, happy adult. Telling them by your actions that your own happiness (be it through sticking it to her or through having free time to date around) is more important than THEIR happiness - because all they will want is time with you, so they can reassure themselves that you really do love them - is sending them down the path to mental stress and low self esteem and long-term issues in adulthood. 

Is it really that important to you to get some, that you'd give up time with your kids?


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## Beowulf

turnera said:


> Well, I know you want to stick it to her, but this is what I tell people in your situation:
> 
> Once you have kids, you don't get to be selfish any more. Until they turn 18, your #1 priority should be spending as much time with your kids as possible, because they are gone far too soon and because your main job right now is to be your child's compass, to show them how to grow up to be an upstanding, moral, happy adult. Telling them by your actions that your own happiness (be it through sticking it to her or through having free time to date around) is more important than THEIR happiness - because all they will want is time with you, so they can reassure themselves that you really do love them - is sending them down the path to mental stress and low self esteem and long-term issues in adulthood.
> 
> Is it really that important to you to get some, that you'd give up time with your kids?


Why should he only take the time with the kids when it is convenient for his wife? Shouldn't she have to learn how inconvenient life can be when you betray the one that you promised to cherish? If he does have thoughts of reconciliation how is he going to snap her out of her fog if she continues to be able to cake eat? I'm sure he will spend plenty of time with the kids but right now he needs to make sure to spend time on himself as well. If he is unhappy how good of a father do you think he'll be able to be?


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## PHTlump

turnera said:


> Telling them by your actions that your own happiness (be it through sticking it to her or through having free time to date around) is more important than THEIR happiness - because all they will want is time with you, so they can reassure themselves that you really do love them - is sending them down the path to mental stress and low self esteem and long-term issues in adulthood.


I disagree. I have children. And, if they marry, have children, and divorce, I would not want my children to put their lives on hold so that their exes could party.

I agree with putting your children first. But sometimes, putting them first means demonstrating to them how to put themselves first. In an airplane crash, they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before you help your kids. That's the metaphor it reminds me of.


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## morituri

Beowulf said:


> Why should he only take the time with the kids when it is convenient for his wife? Shouldn't she have to learn how inconvenient life can be when you betray the one that you promised to cherish? If he does have thoughts of reconciliation how is he going to snap her out of her fog if she continues to be able to cake eat? I'm sure he will spend plenty of time with the kids but right now he needs to make sure to spend time on himself as well. If he is unhappy how good of a father do you think he'll be able to be?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Once divorced, how is having a sexual relationship with another woman being selfish to his kids? :scratchhead:


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## turnera

Beowulf said:


> Why should he only take the time with the kids when it is convenient for his wife? Shouldn't she have to learn how inconvenient life can be when you betray the one that you promised to cherish? If he does have thoughts of reconciliation how is he going to snap her out of her fog if she continues to be able to cake eat? I'm sure he will spend plenty of time with the kids but right now he needs to make sure to spend time on himself as well. If he is unhappy how good of a father do you think he'll be able to be?


 *shrug*

He asked, that's my opinion. Marriages come and go, but kids need you.


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## turnera

morituri said:


> Once divorced, how is having a sexual relationship with another woman being selfish to his kids? :scratchhead:


 What does having a sexual relationship have to do with being with your kids as much as you can? I would think if you're interested enough, you can figure out how to do both.


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## turnera

PHTlump said:


> I disagree. I have children. And, if they marry, have children, and divorce, I would not want my children to put their lives on hold so that their exes could party.
> 
> I agree with putting your children first. But sometimes, putting them first means demonstrating to them how to put themselves first. In an airplane crash, they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before you help your kids. That's the metaphor it reminds me of.


 Showing your kids that you're capable of choosing to go out dating *rather than take them* isn't showing them putting on your mask first. It is showing them putting *yourself* first.

You have the rest of your life to go out partying. While your kids' lives are falling apart around them, and they are devastated, and you and their mother are the only things that matter to them, watching you choose partying over playtime with them MEANS something to those kids. It means you care more about yourself than them. They aren't stupid.


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## morituri

turnera said:


> What does having a sexual relationship have to do with being with your kids as much as you can? I would think if you're interested enough, you can figure out how to do both.


The woman he's going to want to have a sexual relationship with is not going to come knockin' on his door and present herself to him. He's going to have to dedicate TIME to search for and get to know that woman. That ain't going to happen if he's working 5 days a week and then babysitting his kids EVERY weekend. When is he going to find the time in that situation? Besides, it is not just being with his kids or having contact with them only 4 days out of the month. He has expressed a desire to call them or visit them during the week. What's more fair than he have 2 weekends off for himself and that his stbxw have 2 weekends off for herself?


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## Tall Average Guy

turnera said:


> Showing your kids that you're capable of choosing to go out dating *rather than take them* isn't showing them putting on your mask first. It is showing them putting *yourself* first.
> 
> You have the rest of your life to go out partying. While your kids' lives are falling apart around them, and they are devastated, and you and their mother are the only things that matter to them, watching you choose partying over playtime with them MEANS something to those kids. It means you care more about yourself than them. They aren't stupid.


While I agree generally, it is about balance and teaching your kids balance. My kids are my world, but they are not the center of the universe. To expect the OP to only work and care for his kids is not resonable or workable. Yes, he needs to step up and make sure he provides a stable environment for them. Perhaps he takes them 3 out of 4 weekends. But he needs some down time as well, some time to do his things, including have fun. Not just dating or sex, but for some fun time with his friends or hobbies. Taking them every weekend prevents that and prevents him from getting balance. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that and recognizing that balance allows him to be a better parent.


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## turnera

We all need down time. But just saying he's not going to take them (1) to give his wife a hard time and (2) so he can move downtown and party like a single guy is what I take issue with.


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## PHTlump

turnera said:


> Showing your kids that you're capable of choosing to go out dating *rather than take them* isn't showing them putting on your mask first. It is showing them putting *yourself* first.


I disagree. Spending all your free time with them so that their mother can go out partying is only showing them that dad is a martyr. It would be understandable, but unfortunate, for them to conclude that fathers are supposed to give up a personal life so that mothers can party. I think it's better to show them that parenting is hard, but you still have to make time for yourself.



turnera said:


> You have the rest of your life to go out partying. While your kids' lives are falling apart around them, and they are devastated, and you and their mother are the only things that matter to them, watching you choose partying over playtime with them MEANS something to those kids. It means you care more about yourself than them. They aren't stupid.


It's tragic for the children. I agree. But the OP's wife is the one who has made the decision. She has wrecked their lives. And the OP can't fix it by himself. Children of divorce have it harder than kids with both parents in the household. That doesn't mean that dad has to martyr himself to try (in vain) to show the kids that nothing has changed.


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## PHTlump

turnera said:


> We all need down time. But just saying he's not going to take them (1) to give his wife a hard time and (2) so he can move downtown and party like a single guy is what I take issue with.


I'm confused by that statement. Are you saying that it's reasonable for the OP to watch his kids every other weekend as long as he's not partying when he doesn't have them? Why should we care what he does when his children aren't around? Are you also saying that he should try to lighten the load on his wayward wife?


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## turnera

I'm saying he shouldn't be considering what his WW is doing or whether he's horny and wants to go party. He should be considering what would cause the least amount of disruption to his children, and do THAT.

It's not the kids' faults that their parents are ripping their lives apart. But, as I said, once you have kids, you don't get to be selfish - you owe it to the children you brought into this world to make decision based more on THEIR well-being than YOUR well-being, at least until they're 18 and on their own. 

Does it suck to have to bite the bullet and put his life on hold for at least a couple years until the kids come to grips with their lives imploding? Sure. But he chose to have children, and it's luck of the draw that he married someone who cheated on him. Now his place is to do the least amount of damage to vulnerable kids who will have their lives irrevocably changed and who will, according to every statistic out there, be many times more likely to have low self esteem, act out, do poorly in school, have medical/mental issues, take drugs, drop out of school, and a host of other issues. It's been shown again and again that the only factor that can mitigate all those bad changes is direct, constant, and honest focus on the kids. 

Not making decisions based on how hard you make it on the WW or how much you want to party.


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## Beowulf

turnera said:


> We all need down time. But just saying he's not going to take them (1) to give his wife a hard time and (2) so he can move downtown and party like a single guy is what I take issue with.


But he should take them so his wife can go downtown and party like a single woman? There is quite a double standard you have going here. I know that if I were in the OPs position and my WW had me watching the kids while she got some strange on the weekends I wouldn't be in a very good frame of mind to even be around my kids.


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## turnera

As I said, I don't CARE what she does with her time.

All I care about is that the kids get taken care of. If she's turned into a flaming hussy, then maybe he SHOULD be taking them more of the time so that they can be around a parent with a good moral compass.



> my WW had me watching the kids while she got some strange on the weekends I wouldn't be in a very good frame of mind to even be around my kids


Then that would be a failing on your part to not be able to separate your own feelings and issues from taking care of your children.


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## bandit.45

> I'm saying he shouldn't be considering what his WW is doing or whether he's horny and wants to go party. He should be considering what would cause the least amount of disruption to his children, and do THAT


Why can't the WW and her boyfriend just hire a sitter for the weekends that OP wants to go out?


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## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> Why can't the WW and her boyfriend just hire a sitter for the weekends that OP wants to go out?


Because then she wouldn't be a good mother? :rofl:


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## Beowulf

turnera said:


> Then that would be a failing on your part to not be able to separate your own feelings and issues from taking care of your children.


Please. When you are a BS it's a struggle not to just want to drive off a damn cliff sometimes! Your entire universe is shaken. You don't even know what your feelings are...how can you separate them? Let's hold a blowtorch up to your nose and see if your kids even enter your mind. It's the worst pain you can imagine and it takes years to overcome. The OP has been through hell and back. He needs time to regroup so that he can be a good father to his kids.


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## PHTlump

turnera said:


> It's not the kids' faults that their parents are ripping their lives apart. But, as I said, once you have kids, you don't get to be selfish - you owe it to the children you brought into this world to make decision based more on THEIR well-being than YOUR well-being, at least until they're 18 and on their own.


You must have gotten a different parenting manual than I did. Mine doesn't say no more fun until your kids are grown. Mine says to make sure your kids are fed, clothed, schooled, and loved. If you can do that with some free time, then you should take advantage of it.



turnera said:


> Does it suck to have to bite the bullet and put his life on hold for at least a couple years until the kids come to grips with their lives imploding? Sure. But he chose to have children, and it's luck of the draw that he married someone who cheated on him. Now his place is to do the least amount of damage to vulnerable kids who will have their lives irrevocably changed and who will, according to every statistic out there, be many times more likely to have low self esteem, act out, do poorly in school, have medical/mental issues, take drugs, drop out of school, and a host of other issues. It's been shown again and again that the only factor that can mitigate all those bad changes is direct, constant, and honest focus on the kids.


What study is that? I've seen the studies showing that children of divorce are at higher risk for all sorts of nasty stuff. I haven't seen any that say you can eliminate that risk by martyring yourself and just loving them to pieces.

So I think the healthiest thing is to recognize that it's done. They are, or will soon be, children of divorce. And that's unfortunate. But you have to recognize that you lost that battle. You can't go fight it on some other front that isn't appropriate.

I think it's good parenting to demonstrate to children that boundaries exist, that your children aren't the center of the universe, and that parenting doesn't have to be a prison sentence.


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## Devastated2

Thanks for all the comments.

I'm still hoping, praying, and pleading with my wife for to try to make our marriage work. I don't feel like I am making any progress, but I can't help myself from pleading with her to try and make our marriage work.

The more I talk to her I am more convinced that her reasoning for the divorce is almost entirely based on how I have mistreated and ignored her during our relationship. Her affair seems like a symptom of our broken marriage. The years of mental abuse, lack of effort on my part, and not spending quality time with her seem to have all accumulated into her decision to want a divorce. Before I started grad school on the weekends, she reminded me yesterday that she told me that "Don't you think we should work on our marriage first, before you go back to school?" She feels like I have had plenty of chances to show her our relationship was a priority to me, and I have failed for years. Now she doesn't feel like it is fair that she has waited 9 years for me to try and work on our marriage and now I expect her to try now after so many years of her trying.

This impending divorce has really made me think long and hard about changes that I need to make in life. My priorities have been wrong for way too long. My career and pursuit of more money was completely out of control. I know that I need to fix my work/life balance and make my family a bigger priority in my life.

Just to clarify a few things, my reason for not watching the kids every weekend is more about getting myself into a somewhat happy place in life. I need to rebuild my life and learn how to live as a single father. I am an emotional trainwreck right now. I don't feel like I can become a good father until I am comfortable with who I am as a person and actually begin to like myself. The more I interact with my sons, the more I realize that I am really not the good father that I want to be and probably never have been. I need to learn how to interact with my sons better, get to know them better, and how to get them to obey me without getting frustrated.

I am planning on attending individual counseling and joining some divorce support groups. I'm trying to find a group that is based on the "Rebuilding: When You Relationship Ends" book by Dr. Bruce Fisher. I'm started reading the "Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends" book last night. The book indicates that it will probably take about 1 year to fully rebuild my life after this traumatic divorce.

My life is in shambles right now. I feel completely hopeless, I have no sense of direction in life, alone, worthless, and miserable.


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## happyman64

I do not buy the "working on myself first being single before I can be a dad". I do not see a choice.

Maybe that is why your we is so pissed at you.

Stand up. Be a man. Take care of your kids. Get your $hit together.

Your ww was wrong to have an affair. She no longer wants to be with you. Are you going to wait until your kids replace you too? 

Get your priorities straight, cleanup your act quickly and make your life great.

Maybe your ww will come back maybe she will not.was

Just work on you and be a great dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

I've been trying to keep out of this thread given the fact I was bashed last time for saying stuff that has essentially become all true.

Devastated, you won't get your wife back any time soon, as I told you before, this marriage is over. The only way you can get her back is future reconciliation after you work on the things I told you about. When your spouse resents you from years of emotional abuse it's next to impossible to make them fall back in love with you. She will always be in your life given your children and you will have ample opportunities to prove that you've changed _down the road_. Right now you have to accept that it's over, no amount of pleading is going to change her mind and as a matter of fact your pleading is complete turn off for her. 

Work on yourself and get back to the person she fell in love with and kill the person she grew to resent.


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## Devastated2

Complexity said:


> I've been trying to keep out of this thread given the fact I was bashed last time for saying stuff that has essentially become all true.
> 
> Devastated, you won't get your wife back any time soon, as I told you before, this marriage is over. The only way you can get her back is future reconciliation after you work on the things I told you about. When your spouse resents you from years of emotional abuse it's next to impossible to make them fall back in love with you. She will always be in your life given your children and you will have ample opportunities to prove that you've changed _down the road_. Right now you have to accept that it's over, no amount of pleading is going to change her mind and as a matter of fact your pleading is complete turn off for her.
> 
> Work on yourself and get back to the person she fell in love with and kill the person she grew to resent.


Complexity, I appreciate your comments and feedback. Please keep them coming.


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## Complexity

Devastated2 said:


> Complexity, I appreciate your comments and feedback. Please keep them coming.


You're welcome Devastated. Here's what I think you should do, this is a personal opinion so you should regard it as such.

Firstly as I said before, you need to accept that this marriage is over. No amount of pleading is going to change your wife's mind. She's actually relishing in the emotional turmoil that you're going through because let's be frank, if the shoe was on the other foot you'd do the same. You have to understand that your relationship has failed to an extent that your wife is willing to sacrifice the livelihood you've been providing her for a life of hardship and relative poverty....that's how much she wants out.

I know you're going through incredible mental anguish and a perpetual sense of desperation. Yes, you realise what you had now that you've lost it. To your wife it's too little too late *and that's fine*. 


I commend you for knowing the faults that you have and are actively seeking to remedy them. This is precisely what you need to do now. You need to address every single issue that has led to the marital breakdown and go back and think really hard about everything she said she needed from you. This isn't a quick fix issue, this will take months, even years before you rewire the way you treat people. Patience is your best companion now.

What you need to do with your wife is sit her down and own up to everything that you've done wrong in the marriage and tell her that you accept that you can't change her mind with the divorce. Tell her that you understand that her emotional pain and neglect can't be automatically erased with pleas and begging. Tell her that you understand why she's taking this decision and that both of you have done things that have caused irreparable damage to your marriage. She has to understand that you're willing to let her go for both of your sakes. 

However she needs to understand that you can't give up on her. She need to understand that despite her despising you now, you will fight tooth and nail to get your woman back. Ask her if there's any good she sees in you to give you a chance _in the future_ to prove that you've changed to a better man. Actions will speak louder than words and I strongly suggest you wean off the self pity and employ the 180 after you have the conversation, there isn't a better time to use it. 

When it comes to the divorce and I know I'm going to get a lot of stick for this but I suggest you do not punish her. Do not reward her either but be fair. She's been there for you for 9 years with a prenup that essentially gives her nothing. She's the mother of your children and she's going to be left out in the cold. You need to show her a gesture of compassion and mercy. Take the higher road with this one, it will sting now but it will bear its fruits much later on. 

Above all Devastated you need to come to terms with the situation. Wallowing in yourself has not and will not change her mind, she will come across as a cold hearted ***** but you have to constantly remind yourself of what happened that led her to this. 

Your wife is gone now. She wasn't yours before you met her, she wasn't in love with you before you met either. You worked to make her yours, you worked to make her fall in love with you. Now you just have to do that again and luckily for you, she will always be in your life in one way or another.


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## Devastated2

I talked to my wife on Friday (two days ago). I aplogized for the hurtful things that I have said and done to her. I told her that I am letting her go like she wants. I said there are a lot of changes that I am going to make in my life and I plan to fight to get her back at some point in the future. I feel like she thinks that she can do whatever she wants and that I will always be her back up plan, which is not something that I am okay with.

Her behavior has been almost revolting the last few days. She has went out drinking Friday and Saturday nights and hasn't come home until about 9 or 10 am. Our sons were not feeling well yesterday, but she still went out drinking to see a new other man. She lied to my face and told me that she is going to a girl friend's house to drink. I am guessing that she has been staying the night at the guy's house who she had the affair with (because they were "friends first" before the affair), but she could have just as easily stayed the night at the new other man's house.

She told me that she is too nice and can't tell just guys "no" when they ask her out, even though she just wants to be friends. (I don't believe her for the record.) It's almost like she is addicted to getting attention and compliments from men, which seems needy and insecure. I'm not sure if I contributed to this because I focused so much on her appearance during our relationship.

She has made it a point to "accidentally" show me that she has been wearing her wedding rings when she leaves and gets home. It's almost like she is trying to play mind games with me or she thinks that I am completely stupid and actually believe that she is wearing her wedding rings after she gets in her car. It's not like I don't know that she hasn't been coming home at nights. She has also been hugging me before she leaves to go out for the evening. I am guessing that she is doing this because she feels bad or is trying to pull something over on me.

I have completely backed away from her since I told her that I was letting her go. I am not initiating any conversations with her about anything. Yesterday, I went to tell her that I was leaving to go meet with a "Stephen minister" through church. She was in the shower, so I turned my ahead away from the door and told her that I was leaving. She commented that it was funny that I was looking away from her while I was talking to her.

I am so sick of her constant lies. I am very slowly starting to feel like I deserve to be with someone better than her and how she is treating me. I am starting to look forward to her moving out and not having to see her so often. I am scared but looking forward to rebuilding my life after the divorce.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and input. Should I move this thread to a different section of this forum? Thanks everyone.


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## bandit.45

Keep your chin up Devistated. Your wife and mine are cut from the same cloth. I know what you are going through. Your wife is showing you her true colors. It's sad to see someone you love give themselves away so cheaply. 

Be patient, ignore her and move forward. Good luck!


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## Initfortheduration

No stay here. She is still catting around. And you're not divorced. Have you cut of her money? Separated finances? Exposed to everyone?


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## Chaparral

Initfortheduration said:


> No stay here. She is still catting around. And you're not divorced. Have you cut of her money? Separated finances? Exposed to everyone?


You sure don't act mean. As a matter of fact, you look like the kind of guy women walk all over. Can't believe your letting her rub it in your face. She will be bringing them home to meet you next when they come to pick her up. At least she doesn't have to pay a babysitter.


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> I talked to my wife on Friday (two days ago). I aplogized for the hurtful things that I have said and done to her. *I told her that I am letting her go like she wants. I said there are a lot of changes that I am going to make in my life and I plan to fight to get her back at some point in the future.* *I feel like she thinks that she can do whatever she wants and that I will always be her back up plan, which is not something that I am okay with.*


Maybe it's because you just contradicted yourself.

You're saying you're letting her go and you're going to make changes in your life (good). Then you say you're going to fight to get her back (bad).

Then you complain about her thinking you'll always be her back up.

Well if someone told me, "I'm going to come back and fight for you later", then I'd assume they were going to be a back up too. I'd assume I could go screw up royally and then when I was done they'd be there for me.

You're wife needs to know that what she's doing is ENDING her relationship. She currently has no consequences. In fact, in her mind she's still married. You haven't made it explicitly clear that you're not together. She's still living with you, you're still wearing your wedding rings, she's still giving you "hugs" and telling you she loves you. Have you even given her any papers yet?

Why would you want to fight for someone that is screwing other dudes and lying to you? Why would you not want to move on from that and never look back? Why would you say something so pitiful and pathetic?


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## Shaggy

Dev2 - 

why does she still have a car with gas in it? With car insurance and a credit card?

She's not even coming home from these cheat sessions with these men. 

And you're still there, her keys still work, she got's a made bed and pillow, and a place to sleep off her sex session.

oh, and she's getting hugs before she goes out.

I'm not sure how you are even able to touch her.

But common, man up - why would she want to come back to a man who is actually putting up with the behavior she's doing?


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## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> Dev2 -
> 
> why does she still have a car with gas in it? With car insurance and a credit card?
> 
> She's not even coming home from these cheat sessions with these men.
> 
> And you're still there, her keys still work, she got's a made bed and pillow, and a place to sleep off her sex session.
> 
> oh, and she's getting hugs before she goes out.
> 
> I'm not sure how you are even able to touch her.
> 
> But common, man up - why would she want to come back to a man who is actually putting up with the behavior she's doing?


That has me puzzled too. Why are you still financing this affair? Why are you just being the babysitter while she goes off and bangs other men?

How about instead of hugging her before she goes out to bang other men for the night, you tell her to GTFO and not come home? I don't understand why you're accepting all this disrespect?


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## tacoma

So, after 24 pages and nearly a month you`re still allowing your wife to eat cake and cuckold you while you support her emotionally and financially.

You need to go back to the first page of this thread and actually listen to the advice you were given.

She has lost all respect for you because you have earned none.


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## tacoma

Complexity said:


> However she needs to understand that you can't give up on her. She need to understand that despite her despising you now, you will fight tooth and nail to get your woman back. Ask her if there's any good she sees in you to give you a chance _in the future_ to prove that you've changed to a better man. Actions will speak louder than words and I strongly suggest you wean off the self pity and employ the 180 after you have the conversation, there isn't a better time to use it.


You do realize these two paths are mutually exclusive?

You cannot run an effective 180 when your partner knows you can't let her go.

A 180 is "letting her go"..that`s the point.


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## Shaggy

You want her out? Pack her bags, boxes and stuff when she's out on her next nights adventure.

Change the locks and have the key to the storage locked taped to the door along with your divorce papers.


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## Devastated2

My divorce attorney said that the divorce papers will be filed this week. My attorney is also going to issue a temporary injunction for her to leave and so I can give her half of the divorce settlement money. So she will be completely cut off financially very soon.

She is planning to start moving out March 1st into her new place. She has talked about not finishing moving out until the middle of March, but I am not going to allow that whether she thinks so or not.

I have not been wearing my wedding ring at all since I confronted her.

What should I say to her if anything today? I feel like I should tell her that she needs to be out of my house completely the weekend after March 1st. I am thinking about telling her that I deserve to be with someone who treats me better than how she has been treating me. I'm just so sick of her lies.

I planning on telling her that she is on a very short leash with regard to custody of our boys. I am going to keep a very close eye on our boys and I'm going to fight her for custody if I don't feel like our sons are a priority over her partying and dating.

I appreciate everyone's advice about what to say to her.

Tacoma - what can I do to start earning back her respect.


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## Shaggy

Instead of telling her anything - I recommend the opposite. Ignore her completely. no words, acknowledgments, or even help - like opening doors.

Be kind and gentle to your kids, but cold as ice to her.

certainly stop cooking her food, doing her laundry, etc.

As for her respect - sorry, but that is long gone. This woman is openly hugging you and she goes out to fvck other men, then coming back home the next morning like nothing wrong has happened. 

The first time you let her stay, was the last time she had any respect for you.

btw - have you exposed her cheating for friends and family?


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## calif_hope

Why would you want her back, fight for her later, ok with being back-up. Man, have some pride!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

Devastated2 said:


> My divorce attorney said that the divorce papers will be filed this week. My attorney is also going to issue a temporary injunction for her to leave and so I can give her half of the divorce settlement money. So she will be completely cut off financially very soon.
> 
> She is planning to start moving out March 1st into her new place. She has talked about not finishing moving out until the middle of March, but I am not going to allow that whether she thinks so or not.
> 
> I have not been wearing my wedding ring at all since I confronted her.
> 
> What should I say to her if anything today? I feel like I should tell her that she needs to be out of my house completely the weekend after March 1st. I am thinking about telling her that I deserve to be with someone who treats me better than how she has been treating me. I'm just so sick of her lies.
> 
> I planning on telling her that she is on a very short leash with regard to custody of our boys. I am going to keep a very close eye on our boys and I'm going to fight her for custody if I don't feel like our sons are a priority over her partying and dating.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's advice about what to say to her.
> 
> Tacoma - what can I do to start earning back her respect.


I'm sorry for everything you are going through.
I'll get bashed but I do see where turnera is coming from. It's sad when parents fight as to who doesn't have to take the boys. Regardless of valid reasons, that is the message that they hear or will realize someday.
I'm married with no where to drop my kids off every second weekend and yet we manage downtime with babysitters and after kids go to bed.
While you have admitted faults - neglect, etc., that is no excuse for the worthless crap your wife has become. There are moral ways for her to deal with that such as divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Devastated2 said:


> Tacoma - what can I do to start earning back her respect.


Do nothing for her.
Don`t speak to her unless absolutely necessary.
Expose her to everyone.
Cut off all money, benefits, anything she gains as your wife.
Take it from her.

File for divorce and get her out if you can.

It`s unlikely you can save this as a satisfying relationship.

Get free so you can find one elsewhere.


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## Beowulf

You have done everything necessary NOT to earn her respect and now it is too late. You need to detach and become your own man again. You have received enough advice here in order to make those changes. You have access to things like _The 180, Just Let Them Go, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Married Man Sex Life_, etc but you don't seem to want to embrace them for some reason. The man you are right now makes an excellent cuckold and that is how your wife is treating you. Cut her loose and change yourself.


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## turnera

Explain why YOU need to earn HER respect.


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## bandit.45

> You have done everything necessary NOT to earn her respect and now it is too late.


Agreed. This guy has come on this board and initiated this thread for advice and help from people who have been through this kind of thing and know what works and what doesn't, and he has chosen to ignore just about all of it. 

Talk about passive aggressive! No wonder he drove his wife away.

Hey Dedicated, what was the point of all of this?


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## zsu234

I don't know why this guy is catching a HEAT round for being passive, He's filed for divorce, kicking her out of the house, not wearing his ring, and cutting her off financially. I'd say he's doing the right thing!


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## bandit.45

Yeah, but only after being sweet and accomodating has gotten him slapped in the face or when he has had no other choice. He does everything in half measures. Being nice and accomodating just doesn't work with a sawed-off b!tch like his.


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## Devastated2

I'm sorry for anyone that I have frustrated. I feel like I have been trying too hard to make her be with me.

I checked her phone today. She did go out drinking and dancing with a new guy. Then she texted the guy she was originally having an affair with saying she was "pretty horny" and wanted to come over to his house. I'm pretty confident that is where she slept last night. She was texting the new guy about how much fun she had...blah blah blah.

Her affair has already been exposed to her family and a lot of people at the gym she works out at and is going to start working at in a few weeks. She has been pissed about this for weeks.

I think I have finally become so pissed off at her that I am ready to do anything. I am starting to hate the **** and ***** that my wife has turned into. I am furious. I think I am finally at the point where I want nothing to do with her.

I told her today that I want this over as quick as possible and I want her out by March 1st.

I'm planning on fighting for custody of my boys. She doesn't know this yet and will be in for a BIG surprise.

I am furious at her and this situation. I feel like I am more than ready to start playing hardball with her now. I have already started reading the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. I have read the 180, and Just Let Them Go posts also.


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## COguy

Devastated2 said:


> I feel like I have been trying too hard to make her be with me.


That's what we've been saying.

It's one thing to fight for someone who wants to make it work. It's quite the opposite to fight for someone who wants your wallet while they go bang other dudes.

You SHOULD want nothing to do with her at this point. The talk about how to get her back is pathetic. There's nothing to get back at this point, unless you want to be married to a chick who sleeps around on you.

Also, make sure you keep evidence of the affair. Take pictures of the texts and log her coming home times and what not. Unless your divorce attorney says it doesn't matter....


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## Tall Average Guy

Devastated2 said:


> I told her today that I want this over as quick as possible and I want her out by March 1st.


Help her pack. Get boxes and start putting her stuff in the garage. Nothing sends a message quicker than you helping her leave your house. Also, take down any family pictures. Make it clear that you are moving on and that does not include her.


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## the guy

Even if the lawyer tells you keeping a journal of her comings and goings, do it any way.
Right now she thinks you aren't going any were, then there will be a time (most likely when she gets served) were she seems to come out of the fog, and you will need to refrence this journal as a reminder in why you are heading for a divorce.

So please start to track her comings and goings. I would think your lawyer would want this information with rergards to custody and any abadnonment issue the lawyer could use in your favor. Again even if the lawyer doesn't need them, you will need them in the future so you can keep your sanity when she comes crawling back.


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## turnera

Your #1 priority is to provide a MORAL place for your kids to live.


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## happyman64

D2
She is living the single life at your expense. She forgot all this time that she is still married, has a husband and kids too.

She wants to be used and abused. Please respect yourself and your boys now.

Let your wife go. You cannot help her and she obviously does not want your help.

Secure your finances. Move forward with the D and take care of you and your kids.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated2

Here is an update of my situation.

I spoke with my attorney and I am going to seek primary custody of my boys. He is filing the divorce paperwork today. I'm optimistic about getting custody of my sons, but fearful of my STBXW's reaction and response. She has already threatened me if "I dare try to take her babies away from her".

My attorney said the best time to pursue custody is right now. If I wait for a year or two it will be much more difficult and her behavior will have to decline significantly. I know that I would regret not seeking custody in a few years if I don't at least try.

She has been discussing how she is going to have a lawyer review the prenup and try to get it voided anyway possible so she can try to get more money out of me. 

On Sunday, I told her I was concerned that she was not making the boys her #1 priority by staying out all night on Friday and Saturday night. She was angry at me for criticizing her. Last night, she went to go to the gym at about 6:30 pm. I texted her after I fed, bathed, and got the boys ready for bed without her again. I said she is not making the boys her #1 priority. She was furious at me. I have been documenting all of this so I can use it when I am seeking primary custody.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and input regarding my situation. Please keep them coming.

This has absolutely been the biggest crisis I have ever had to face in my entire life. It's been difficult for me to stop caring and my feelings for my wife through all of this. This has been a complete surprise that I was in no way prepared to deal with going into confronting my wife.


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## bandit.45

Now there you go D2! Good going. Keep up the pressure and don't back off. Get custody of those boys!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

I agree keep up the pressure. Focus on your children. If she will not step up to the plate then you must!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf

Devastated2 said:


> Here is an update of my situation.
> 
> I spoke with my attorney and I am going to seek primary custody of my boys. He is filing the divorce paperwork today. I'm optimistic about getting custody of my sons, but fearful of my STBXW's reaction and response. She has already threatened me if "I dare try to take her babies away from her".
> 
> My attorney said the best time to pursue custody is right now. If I wait for a year or two it will be much more difficult and her behavior will have to decline significantly. I know that I would regret not seeking custody in a few years if I don't at least try.
> 
> She has been discussing how she is going to have a lawyer review the prenup and try to get it voided anyway possible so she can try to get more money out of me.
> 
> On Sunday, I told her I was concerned that she was not making the boys her #1 priority by staying out all night on Friday and Saturday night. She was angry at me for criticizing her. Last night, she went to go to the gym at about 6:30 pm. I texted her after I fed, bathed, and got the boys ready for bed without her again. I said she is not making the boys her #1 priority. She was furious at me. I have been documenting all of this so I can use it when I am seeking primary custody.
> 
> I really appreciate everyone's feedback and input regarding my situation. Please keep them coming.
> 
> This has absolutely been the biggest crisis I have ever had to face in my entire life. It's been difficult for me to stop caring and my feelings for my wife through all of this. This has been a complete surprise that I was in no way prepared to deal with going into confronting my wife.


She is cold. I know some of the comments you received stung a little but I hope you now see why so many here advised you to play hardball. When they are in the fog nothing else matter to them. Not you, not her kids, not her dignity, nothing. Stick to your guns and your prenup. You can always be magnanimous down the road if she begins to start treating you and her children with respect and dignity. In the meantime concentrate on healing yourself and your children. Let your lawyer take care of the mess your wife is making. I'm praying for you.


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## morituri

Do not pay any attention to her, act as though she doesn't exist. Take care of yourself, and your kids, and let your attorney handle the rest.

She is not the woman you married, your wife died and what's in her place is only a clone of her. Melodramatic? Perhaps but nevertheless close to the truth.


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## Devastated2

Morituri - That seems like a very accurate analogy. She seems like a completely different person and I am stuck with my old memories.

I really appreciate everyone's comments. I definitely need to hear the cold and hard truths about what to do. I'm in way over my head here. My world has been completely rocked and I am still not prepared for all of these events that are happening and are about to happen.

She seems to be embracing her new bad girl image. She told me she tells everyone she talks to about our divorce that she cheated on me. It's almost like she is proud of it. She has always been a "good" girl. She seems like she is rebelling like a crazy to make up for lost time she could have been partying instead of married with kids.

It doesn't really seem like she is in "the fog" though. She seems very aware of how much she has been hurting me and just acts like she doesn't care. She says that she is hurting also, but she refuses to open up to me because she doesn't feel close to me, doesn't trust me, and doesn't want to talk to me. I have spent plenty of hours apolgizing and pouring my heart out pleading with her try stay with me. She is emotionless and the answer is always a NO. She has made it extremely clear that she doesn't want to be with me and it's not fair that I expect her to wait 9 years to figure all of this stuff out now and want to treat her better. She has told me that she doesn't think I will be able to change. Her responses seem logical....very cold, but logical nonetheless. It seems like she has decided that the most logical choice is to leave and be with another man (and plenty of other men in the process) who will treat her better than I treated her.

She did say ONCE that I'm not that bad of a guy though. I think she was just feeling sorry for me though.


I think my fight for custody is going to make her get VERY nasty for this divorce. She has already warned me about the kids. Everyone get your popcorn ready because the real show is about to begin when she finds out that I am seeking primary custody.


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## the guy

D-
From now on never ever tell her or even giver her any idea that you are begging for this marriage. The only peception that she needs to see is a positive man that is confident and moving on with out her and it is the best thing to happen to you.

She has your number and she still sees the same man she left....change this be a different man, a stronger man, a man that is now indifferent to a woamn that is heading down a road that no one should be proud of. A perception of pity and disgust towards her. Only then will she see how you have changed.

Please take/ have the additude that she is doing you a favor. No matter how hard this is, you will be best servered by forcing this new additude and showing her how healthy you can be with out her, and it is her that has the unhealthy life style that will soon catch up with her. (she just doen't know it yet and you do not need to tell her)

Fake it until you make it!

Soon you will no longer have to force this positive out look and it will no longer be a fake perception of confidence, but soon it will come natural and you and other will see a changed man, for the better...while your x goes through one unhealthy relationship after another, you my friend will be better off with out her.


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## calif_hope

Your still being the Beta make and begging and pleading. Knock it off! Live, act, behave, and talk like you don't need her and want her out of the house. Live your life like she is no longer in it. Live your life with your kids, quit talking to her about her bad parenting - just document it. Talk to get only about the divorce and the logistics of your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

calif_hope said:


> Your still being the Beta make and begging and pleading. Knock it off! Live, act, behave, and talk like you don't need her and want her out of the house. Live your life like she is no longer in it. Live your life with your kids, quit talking to her about her bad parenting - just document it. Talk to get only about the divorce and the logistics of your kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

26 pages later and you're still begging and pleading. 

Why aren't you doing the 180?


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## Complexity

Guys you have to understand something, this isn't about Devastated being all pathetic and not doing the 180. Devastated has realised that he made some serious errors in this marriage, his wife isn't what you make her out to be, he genuinely wants to reconcile and prevent what appears to be an exist affair. 

He has been in the 180 mode the entire marriage, that's what led to its breakdown. His wife viewed him as an emotionally detached, "mean" husband. The 180 just solidifies that perception she has of him, something he's desperately trying to change.


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## Shaggy

Are you recording her comments to you on a var? If not then start now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Complexity said:


> Guys you have to understand something, this isn't about Devastated being all pathetic and not doing the 180. Devastated has realised that he made some serious errors in this marriage, his wife isn't what you make her out to be, he genuinely wants to reconcile and prevent what appears to be an exist affair.
> 
> He has been in the 180 mode the entire marriage, that's what led to its breakdown. His wife viewed him as an emotionally detached, "mean" husband. The 180 just solidifies that perception she has of him, something he's desperately trying to change.


Begging and pleading sure isn't going to win her back. Just the opposite in fact.


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## Complexity

lordmayhem said:


> Begging and pleading sure isn't going to win her back. Just the opposite in fact.


She's not in the fog lordmayhem, she adamant about wanting out. She's already experienced the effects of the 180 and they've done nothing but make her resent him more. She's more 180 than he is.

The 180 is exactly how he acted during the marriage and that's what led her away. She's not waiting to be snapped out of la la land, emotionally she's checked out. Devastated was the definition of Alpha during the marriage and that proved to be its demise. He desperately needs help on how to win his wife back in methods that don't cement what she already views him as. He now realises what he's lost.


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## lordmayhem

COguy said:


> That's what we've been saying.
> 
> It's one thing to fight for someone who wants to make it work. It's quite the opposite to fight for someone who wants your wallet while they go bang other dudes.
> 
> You SHOULD want nothing to do with her at this point. The talk about how to get her back is pathetic. There's nothing to get back at this point, unless you want to be married to a chick who sleeps around on you.
> 
> Also, make sure you keep evidence of the affair. Take pictures of the texts and log her coming home times and what not. Unless your divorce attorney says it doesn't matter....


:iagree:


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## Beowulf

Complexity said:


> She's not in the fog lordmayhem, she adamant about wanting out. She's already experienced the effects of the 180 and they've done nothing but make her resent him more. She's more 180 than he is.
> 
> The 180 is exactly how he acted during the marriage and that's what led her away. She's not waiting to be snapped out of la la land, emotionally she's checked out. Devastated was the definition of Alpha during the marriage and that proved to be its demise. He desperately needs help on how to win his wife back in methods that don't cement what she already views him as. He now realises what he's lost.


Regardless of how good a husband or not he has been what his wife is doing is tantamount to amputating the arm because of a broken finger. She is damaging herself, her children, her family, friends and of course Devastated. If she is doing this as some sort of exit affair strategy then this is one cold, heartless, b!tch because from the behavior I have read she is acting like nothing more than a common s!ut. Her current mindset is not healthy for anyone but a real scumbag to be around. She cannot be allowed to expose this to the children.

If he has been too alpha and wanted to try to save his marriage he would need to follow the type of advice that Dr. Harley advocates in _His Needs Her Needs_, _Love Busters_, etc. However, if she is adamant that she wants out, no amount of anything Dev does is going to get her to stay. It takes two to save a marriage just like it takes two to make a marriage. If she isn't willing to give it a chance then it's over and he needs to make sure to focus on the family that is going to be left in the wake of her devastating behavior. He also needs to make himself a better man for the next woman he comes across that piques his interest. Fact is that the fat lady has probably sung on this relationship regardless of how it got here.


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## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> The 180 is exactly how he acted during the marriage and that's what led her away. She's not waiting to be snapped out of la la land, emotionally she's checked out. Devastated was the definition of Alpha during the marriage and that proved to be its demise. He desperately needs help on how to win his wife back in methods that don't cement what she already views him as. He now realises what he's lost.


I still reject that view. The OP's list of his sins during his marriage was pretty damn mild. Telling his wife she looked fat in those pants, saying mean things during arguments, moving the family to advance his career. The list his wife gave makes me think his wife is just rewriting history the same as many disloyal spouses.

She's not a total slag for staying out all night to bang (at least) two different men. Her husband told her she could stand to lose weight a few times. What else can she do?

It would also surprise me that, if the OP were a natural alpha during his long marriage, that when the stuff hits the fan, his first instinct is to go full beta.

However, I do think that his wife has checked out and is unlikely to want back in the relationship. At this point, he needs to do the 180 for his own peace of mind.


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## Complexity

This isn't me who's saying this, I've spoken to him privately and he's conveyed his feelings to me.


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## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> This isn't me who's saying this, I've spoken to him privately and he's conveyed his feelings to me.


I will allow that, if the OP was too alpha during his marriage (which would put him in a tiny minority of men), and his wife left because of him being too alpha, then she is unlikely to be won back to ramping up the alpha.

However, just going by what he wrote in this thread, I'm not sold on that being the case. The list of offenses was minor. And, it's possible that, if the wife is gaslighting him, it worked. This board is full of stories of loyal spouses apologizing to disloyal spouses and killing themselves to jump through whatever hoops the disloyal spouses set up. And it rarely works.

Also, if the wife is on the prowl for beta men, she's unlikely to find them at 4am at the local singles club. That's the hunting ground of the alphas.


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## Beowulf

PHTlump said:


> I will allow that, if the OP was too alpha during his marriage (which would put him in a tiny minority of men), and his wife left because of him being too alpha, then she is unlikely to be won back to ramping up the alpha.
> 
> However, just going by what he wrote in this thread, I'm not sold on that being the case. The list of offenses was minor. And, it's possible that, if the wife is gaslighting him, it worked. This board is full of stories of loyal spouses apologizing to disloyal spouses and killing themselves to jump through whatever hoops the disloyal spouses set up. And it rarely works.
> 
> Also, if the wife is on the prowl for beta men, she's unlikely to find them at 4am at the local singles club. That's the hunting ground of the alphas.


:iagree:


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## Complexity

PHTlump said:


> I will allow that, if the OP was too alpha during his marriage (which would put him in a tiny minority of men), and his wife left because of him being too alpha, then she is unlikely to be won back to ramping up the alpha.
> 
> However, just going by what he wrote in this thread, I'm not sold on that being the case. The list of offenses was minor. And, it's possible that, if the wife is gaslighting him, it worked. This board is full of stories of loyal spouses apologizing to disloyal spouses and killing themselves to jump through whatever hoops the disloyal spouses set up. And it rarely works.
> 
> Also, if the wife is on the prowl for beta men, she's unlikely to find them at 4am at the local singles club. That's the hunting ground of the alphas.


He's not divulging all of his marital problems here. Again, you guys have a completely different impression of his wife and what he'd done in the marriage. By his own admission she was the best wife you can ever want, he now realises he took her for granted.

She isn't looking for beta men or any man at all. She wants out and wants to live the single life after devoting 10 years of her life completely to him.


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## PHTlump

Complexity said:


> He's not divulging all of his marital problems here. Again, you guys have a completely different impression of his wife and what he'd done in the marriage. By his own admission she was the best wife you can ever want, he now realises he took her for granted.


There are two possibilities. The first is that he has presented a very inaccurate picture in this thread over the last few weeks. That he is a bad guy who drove his wonderful wife away. The second possibility is that he presented an accurate picture here. That he made the kind of mistakes that most men make in marriage, but his wife has been successful in gaslighting him into believing that he was such a monster that his pure-of-heart wife had no choice but to go whoring around on the weekends before her divorce is final.

Each of those situations would result in the OP stating that he was the bad guy and his wife was the good guy. Strictly playing the odds, I think it's far more likely that the OP has been gaslighted.



Complexity said:


> She isn't looking for beta men or any man at all. She wants out and wants to live the single life after devoting 10 years of her life completely to him.


She's out whoring on the weekends. She's staying out all night long with multiple men. She may not be searching for marriage, or true love, but she's searching for something that these men have to give her. If you know what I mean.


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## Saffron

Complexity said:


> He's not divulging all of his marital problems here. Again, you guys have a completely different impression of his wife and what he'd done in the marriage. By his own admission she was the best wife you can ever want, he now realises he took her for granted.
> 
> She isn't looking for beta men or any man at all. She wants out and wants to live the single life after devoting 10 years of her life completely to him.


If she wants out, then D is doing the right thing by seeking a divorce. Based on what he's posted, it doesn't sound like there is anything he can do or say that will save his marriage. She's done. So, the next best step is to protect himself and his children. Letting her go seems like the only option.

It's good you're seeking primary custody D, because your STBXW sounds like she's also done with being a devoted mother. I'm sure she put the kids first for years, but it doesn't mean she will continue to put them first. You've already noticed they are no longer her #1 priority. Right now . . . _she _is her number one priority.

Stay strong D. You don't want your kids waking up to find some strange man coming out of Mom's bedroom when she's on her own after the divorce. That's the icky $#!t my H had to deal with after his parents divorced (his Dad cheated). Based on how messed up he is regarding relationships now (he's a WS) I'm sure it didn't help that he had such crappy relationship role models.


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## Tall Average Guy

Complexity said:


> He's not divulging all of his marital problems here. Again, you guys have a completely different impression of his wife and what he'd done in the marriage. By his own admission she was the best wife you can ever want, he now realises he took her for granted.
> 
> She isn't looking for beta men or any man at all. She wants out and wants to live the single life after devoting 10 years of her life completely to him.


If true, then I have to say that is on the OP. If he comes here for advice, but only give incomplete information, then how can he expect people to actually help him? This is nothing more than Garbage in Garbage Out. 

What is the point of posting here? 

That being said, I lean toward what PHTlump points out.


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## Beowulf

Ok, say Dev was the absolute worst husband ever. Say his wife was a complete angel. Say everything that led to this point was completely his fault. So? Does it change the fact that she is acting like a wh0re? Does it change the fact that right now she is a terrible mother and has put her own selfish needs above the needs of her children? Does it change the fact that she is a bad influence on the children? Does it change the fact that she is not marriage material right now? Does it change the fact that she has tossed her future away? Does it change the fact that unless she has an epiphany and comes crawling back to Dev, this marriage is OVER? No.

Right now Dev has to take care of his kids. Right now he needs to get his own house in order and she has to be evicted from that house for everyone's good. Right now he needs to make sure he and his children are financially secure and in a stable situation. And then he needs to make sure to work on himself so that he becomes a better man and potentially a better husband to whatever woman that might be.

It doesn't matter which road you travel to get to where you are and it doesn't take a genius to know when to get out of the way of an oncoming Mack truck.


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## Devastated2

Here is quick update on my situation.

I landed a job in town with no travel and good work/life balance. I'm taking a pretty large paycut (~$20k). We are planning to settle out of court and I'm getting 50/50 custody. I'm excited but scared about being a newly single dad. I have been going to individual counseling and a rebuilding from divorce class every week. 

I have pleaded with her to try to save our marriage and our family. She has completely refused to try to save our marriage. Her behavior has been pretty unusal during the last month or so. She has kicked a hole in the wall, attacked me a few times, threatened to kill herself (once with a knife at her throat for over an hour), and talked about walking away and leaving the boys with me permanently. I have been on an emotional roller coaster.

The divorce is moving along. My attorney was not happy that I contacted her affair partners co-workers and friends. If anyone is thinking about it, be careful.

She started moving out today. About a month ago, I told her that I would not co-sign on a house for her to live in. I found out last night that she is moving into her affair partners house he moved out of about a month ago. She told me that it's sad that another person is generous enough to help her. I told her that someone she is sleeping with isn't exactly a generous stranger and he has a vested interest in renting her his house. I told her I'm curious how long he will let her rent his house after your relationship ends. She was pretty upset about my comments.

She has temporary orders to get child support so she can move out. She asked me if I would let her borrom money so she can buy stuff for her new place. I told her NO. She told me I'm mean and she knows she is making the right decision to leave. I'm in a complete catch 22. If I stand up for myself, I am the mean and terrible husband she thinks of me as and is justified in leaving. She keeps telling me that I am controlling and all I try to do now is control her with money. It definitely does not seem like she is going to change her mind.

She tells me she wants to be with someone who cares about her regardless of with her or not. She says that I only care about her if she is with me. In my mind, I can still care about her and not financially support her. She just uses this as an example of why I have an unhealthy relationship with money and money is all that matters to me.

I'm not sure if I should tell her affair partner that she has been dating someone else while she has been sleeping with him. Should I tell him so he knows he is getting manipulated? What does everyone think?


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## michzz

Stop dancing on her string and stop trying to punish her. Do not loan her money. Document the violent outbreaks and suicidal incidents and give that to your lawyer.

She is unstable.

BUT she is not your problem anymore!!

Protect your children, mine on.


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## Devastated2

michzz said:


> Stop dancing on her string and stop trying to punish her. Do not loan her money. Document the violent outbreaks and suicidal incidents and give that to your lawyer.
> 
> She is unstable.
> 
> BUT she is not your problem anymore!!
> 
> Protect your children, mine on.


Why do you think I am trying to punish her?

I have documented her violent outburts and suicide talks. My attorney knows about them. It doesn't really matter unless we go to court though. I live in Texas and it is insanely difficult to get more than every other weekend visitation for a father.

I kind of think her suicide talks were just her trying to manipulate me. But, she does can get pretty emotional when she gets upset.

I'm not planning to support her financially. I have no problem taking care of the boys, but I don't think I have any other responsibility that child support when the boys are with her.


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## turnera

Devastated, come on! You are behaving like a complete DOORMAT.

Please tell me Why she should respect you, let alone want you?

I'm really curious to know why you think she would choose you at this point.


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## happyman64

D2,

Go back and read your early posts.

You had a plan and you should stick to it.

Your wife made a choice and it was not you.

You sound like you are starting to get your act together. Keep moving forward.

Worry about you and your boys. Your wayward wife is no longer your problem. She can keep screwing around on those guys until she finds herself homeless for all you care.

She needs to live by her choices just like you do. Concentrate on being the best man and father you can be.

*You can only control you! Make the most of it!*

HM64


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## Eli-Zor

Your doing ok, keep your distance from her and try get the contact with her down to exchanging children only. Be firm she chose her life style , she chose to move out therefore she chose not to have your financial support. As mentioned before document , photograph/video damages she causes as well her antics, give them to your lawyer.

Regarding exposure to her coworkers and your lawyers opinion , there is a reason why he is a divorce lawyer , they are not there to save marriages. It would be a sad day for your wife and the OM if they lodge a complaint , they will do more damage to themselves. The truth hurts especialy if your a wayward.

Your sole responsability now is to focus on you and your children , your STBX wife is not your problem .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz

And you don't see it as worth the effort to protect your children?

Texas or not, THAT kind of behavior is significant.


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## keko

Devastated2 said:


> I'm not sure if I should tell her affair partner that she has been dating someone else while she has been sleeping with him. Should I tell him so he knows he is getting manipulated? What does everyone think?


If you have hard evidence of her multiple affair's, you should mail it to him anonymously.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering

Sorry I skipped all the other posts I will go back and read them shortly, but what worked in my case is that my sister busted my H with OW and so the affair was no longer a secret and he got scared and then finally started coming clean, when you confront them yourself it always is your fault and etc, the best thing to do is get someone else to catch them like it was accidental and then the panic will set in and they will see what they are going to lose versus what they are going to keep staying in the affair. Then once busted, you leave, no matter how hard and just ignore her for a few days and she will begin to think she screwed up and lost everything and then will come clean and try to work on it, it worked for me.


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## turnera

BeenThere, in all my years of doing this, I never thought of having another family member doing the exposing. Huh. I may actually start suggesting that. I do believe that a betrayed spouse should be the one doing the busting - the BS has to learn to be angry and stand up for themselves - but if that alone doesn't work, ask the others to help.


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## Shaggy

When she has her out breaks and suicide moments you should be calling the cops and having the officially record the incidents.

You should also be carrying a VAR on your at all times to capture what she is saying .


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## PHTlump

Devastated2 said:


> I'm in a complete catch 22. If I stand up for myself, I am the mean and terrible husband she thinks of me as and is justified in leaving. She keeps telling me that I am controlling and all I try to do now is control her with money. It definitely does not seem like she is going to change her mind.


You need to stop arguing with her. At this point, she's like a toddler. If you tell a toddler that she needs to eat her broccoli, she won't understand why. She will think you're mean for making her eat yucky stuff when she wants to eat cookies. And nothing you say to her will change her mind. So stop trying. That's why, "because I said so," is such an effective reason with toddlers. They won't understand vitamins and fiber and balanced diets. So you would be wasting your time in explaining it.

Start thinking of your wife like a toddler. She wants your money and her boyfriend's body. And she won't understand the adult perspective of how married couples are exclusive. So stop talking to her like she's an adult who is capable of understanding rational arguments and making rational decisions. She is a toddler who is pitching a fit.



Devastated2 said:


> I'm not sure if I should tell her affair partner that she has been dating someone else while she has been sleeping with him. Should I tell him so he knows he is getting manipulated? What does everyone think?


It's none of your business. Your wife didn't make any vows to the AP. She owes him nothing. Would you inform McDonald's that your wife plans on eating at KFC today? Of course not.


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## PHTlump

Devastated2 said:


> Why do you think I am trying to punish her?


Your question about informing her AP about her other relationship(s) is about punishing her. You need to let that go. It's very likely that her relationship with her AP will fail. It's very likely that she will have multiple, failed relationships after, or even during, your divorce. There is nothing you can do about these relationships. And by trying to break up her relationship(s), you're only reenforcing her perception of you as wanting her to be miserable.

The best thing you can do is to be a counterexample to your wife. She will be poor and miserable in an unstable life. So you should be confident and happy in a stable life. It is possible, though increasingly unlikely, that she will become attracted to you after she sees you as happy and unconcerned with her.


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## TDSC60

Devastated2 said:


> Why do you think I am trying to punish her?
> 
> I have documented her violent outburts and suicide talks. My attorney knows about them. It doesn't really matter unless we go to court though. I live in Texas and it is insanely difficult to get more than every other weekend visitation for a father.
> 
> I kind of think her suicide talks were just her trying to manipulate me. But, she does can get pretty emotional when she gets upset.
> 
> I'm not planning to support her financially. I have no problem taking care of the boys, but I don't think I have any other responsibility that child support when the boys are with her.


Keep a VAR on you at all times. In some states, talk of suicide can land you a 30 day stay for observation in the local nut house.


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## Devastated2

PHTlump said:


> Your question about informing her AP about her other relationship(s) is about punishing her. You need to let that go. It's very likely that her relationship with her AP will fail. It's very likely that she will have multiple, failed relationships after, or even during, your divorce. There is nothing you can do about these relationships. And by trying to break up her relationship(s), you're only reenforcing her perception of you as wanting her to be miserable.
> 
> The best thing you can do is to be a counterexample to your wife. She will be poor and miserable in an unstable life. So you should be confident and happy in a stable life. It is possible, though increasingly unlikely, that she will become attracted to you after she sees you as happy and unconcerned with her.



She was attracted to me at some point. Why do you think it's increasingly unlikely that she will become attracted to me?

I plan to become happy without her, but I still would prefer to keep my family together.


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## Devastated2

turnera said:


> Devastated, come on! You are behaving like a complete DOORMAT.
> 
> Please tell me Why she should respect you, let alone want you?
> 
> I'm really curious to know why you think she would choose you at this point.


I'm far from an expert with women. I honestly expected her to at least try marriage counseling because I was apologizing profusely and committing to making changes.

I'm definitely paying attention if you have any advice.


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## the guy

The confidence PTH is talking about is a perception to make you look more attractive...a new man if you will. The idea here is stopping the guy your wife is running away from but being a new guy with confidence and an ego that will make her second guess her choices.
The perception of how positive you look to her (no matter how hard) will be an action that she will see, that your moving on. This just might scare some sence into her. I thinks it time to get positive you just might see a chang in additude from your WW.

So please with a smile on your face (no matter how fake), show your WW and others that her crap will not define who you want to be.


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## always_hopefull

Devastated2 said:


> I'm far from an expert with women. I honestly expected her to at least try marriage counseling because I was apologizing profusely and committing to making changes.
> 
> I'm definitely paying attention if you have any advice.


She doesn't want to do MC because she doesn't care to save the M. Sorry. This is how my exh was, he actually lied to me about calling for MC, but never did it. He would profess he still loved me and wanted to work on our M, however, he wanted to do no lifting at all, in fact he expected me to make him feel like it was worth it for him to try to fix the M. He didn't want to loose his on-line gf's in case it didn't work out with me. At some point I stopped listening to his words and started to pay attention to his actions. Words mean nothing when their actions are saying the opposite.


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## snap

Devastated2 said:


> I'm far from an expert with women. I honestly expected her to at least try marriage counseling because I was apologizing profusely and committing to making changes.


It doesn't work. So, don't do that.


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## Chaparral

Apologizing, begging, pleading, only demonstrates weakness in this type of situation. Women hate weakness in their men.

Have you read " Married Man Sex Life" book and blog?

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


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## turnera

Devastated2 said:


> I'm far from an expert with women. I honestly expected her to at least try marriage counseling because I was apologizing profusely and committing to making changes.
> 
> I'm definitely paying attention if you have any advice.


Ok, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? 

That's your first step.


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## Devastated2

turnera said:


> Ok, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?
> 
> That's your first step.



I finished reading NMMNG this weekend. I am going to really put some energy into all of the breaking free activities. I was exhausted reading the last chapter. I am going to re-read the last chapter this week.

I am definitely listening to any suggestions on what to do.


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## turnera

Just ruminate on what that book had to tell you. It likely will require a complete mindshift on how to live your life, and that will take a lot of work! 

But it will be worth it. Go back, and make a cheat sheet out of the things it says to do, and review it each morning. "Today, I will..."


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## CH

File for D and prepare to move on with your life.

My wife did that, all the begging, crying, pleading, more begging didn't make me budge. The minute she threw me out and told me to get out of her life I got the message.

BTW, if they leave and op for divorce you haven't lost anything at all. You've already lost at this point, the only thing you can do is file for D and if she comes around then you've only gained (although to me I think you really still lose out by taking us cheaters back).


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