# Need help distracting myself from low sex marriage



## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Hi everyone,

I've been with my wife almost 20 years. She's my true love, I love her so much. She's my favorite person in the world. I think she's attractive, smart, fun, funny and a great person to be with. Our kids are in elementary school, so thank god there are no more diapers in our life. 

But sex has gone down to once every 2-3 months. I don't think I'm a very high desire guy, honestly if we had sex once a week, I would be very satisfied. Even once every other week would be great.

But after about a month my brain starts to think about sex often. After two months, I start to think about sex for most of the day. Why she won't be intimate with me? What can I do? What am I doing wrong? How can I be more of a man? I help with chores. I help with the kids. I help clean the house. I cook all the meals. I work, she doesn't. I'm in pretty good shape. I work out 6 days a week.

We've had "the talk" a number of times. She says she is asexual. That she doesn't want sex from anybody, not just me. She says she's very satisfied with me as her husband and loves everything about me and our relationship. But just doesn't want to have sex. I told her that once a week or twice a month is enough. She made an effort a few times and then back to every other month at best.

I read the Dead Bedroom Fix, Hold on to Your Nuts, No More Mr. Nice Guy... all of them suggest focusing on being the best man you can be. They explain that she's just not attracted to me sexually, and that the first thing to try is to make myself more sexually attractive by being manlier.

So I've been trying to do that, jogging, weight lifting, no longer initiating sexual advances, no more complaining, no whining, no more "talks".

I have hope that this will eventually help (though it hasn't at all yet, been trying for months).

I'm currently in one of those dry spells that's been going on so long that now I'm thinking about sex daily and for most of my day. I hate it. I hate thinking about sex all the time. I'd much rather not. At this point, masturbation does not help at all. Zero satisfaction.

My question is this... how do I distract myself from sexual thoughts when my low desire partner is withholding and I am not supposed to tell her that I'm struggling? I want her to desire me "naturally" and I'm willing to wait until some of the life changes I'm trying hopefully have a positive effect. But silently struggling with my desires is beyond annoying.

I've tried exercise, I ran a half marathon. It did not provide relief. I'm thinking of trying to take libido suppressing herbs like hops to try to stop the incessant thoughts. 

I really want my wife's physical attention, but if I can't have that, I just want the desires and thoughts to just stop. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I assume you have already decided you’re not going to leave if things do not change?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Correct, I don’t want to leave, I love the woman to death


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Then next I assume she is also not interested in helping you out with non-PIV sex?

So zero interest, and it’s not a deal breaker for you. She knows you won’t leave I assume so she won’t feel anything from the 180 you’re attempting. Ex. Making yourself more attractive to other women, she doesn’t care and isn’t threatened by it.

Have you discussed outsourcing sex? If you did outsource it would that be ok with you?

When I considered it as a potential option I decided it wouldn’t work for me because that person should actually be my wife, you know, the one who has sex with me. Marriage is supposed to be a sexual relationship.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

So you are willing to CHEMICALLY CASTRATE yourself so you can stay with a partner who doesn't care at all about your needs or their vows to you...??

I wonder...if you both divorced...do you think she would remain "asexual" with a new partner?
I'm not being sarcastic at all, I'm really asking if you think she would.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been with my wife almost 20 years. She's my true love, I love her so much. She's my favorite person in the world. I think she's attractive, smart, fun, funny and a great person to be with. Our kids are in elementary school, so thank god there are no more diapers in our life.
> 
> ...


Go see a urologist. They prescribe testosterone blocker for advanced prostate cancer, assume they can do the same for a healthy male. Assume from your time together you are mid 40s, so kinda young to just give up on sex. But, since you are determined to stay with her no matter what, maybe blocking your testosterone will kill your libido so problem solved. If they get the T knocked down low enough you wont even think about sex ever. Kinda like a steer only cares about eating. Problem solved until wife gets really horny closer to menopause, then she may be wanting it way worse than you do now. And she will do something about it then for sure, but proly not with you.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Simplename said:


> My question is this... how do I distract myself from sexual thoughts when my low desire partner is withholding and I am not supposed to tell her that I'm struggling? I want her to desire me "naturally" and I'm willing to wait until some of the life changes I'm trying hopefully have a positive effect. But silently struggling with my desires is beyond annoying.


This is very sad to read, no real man will do such thing to himself!
This will not change anything, you're missing one of the best joy of life (sex) because of your wife, and the sad part she doesn't really care about you or you needs, very selfish and entitled!

These are the options you have (since leaving is not an option to you):

Continue what your doing (weight lifting most important, get the top body V shape), and up your sex rank (SMV) and start to act shady, change wardrobe, dress nicely and come home late, be on your phone all the time, basically making your wife think you "might" be having an affair, she will start snooping, but she will not find anything because you are NOT cheating, but you are still shady, so she will still think you might be cheating but she is not sure, she thinks you're so good at hiding it, she will ask you, and you will be honest and say the truth that you're not cheating, but you will still act shady, she will reach to the point of (competition anxiety) and respond with more sex to keep you satisfied. you need to play the shady part very well... It works btw!!
Have a mistress on the side (yes you will become a cheating scum with no dignity and self respect).
Ask for one sided open marriage (might work).
Change your religion to another that allows you to have multiple wives
Chemically castrate yourself (such as testosterone blockers), no real man does that willingly, but it's your call!
The option of leaving should be always on the table, but you don't want that, so it's very difficult to find a solution when you make yourself stuck like that!


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

As CC said, the 180 and becoming a better version of yourself only works if it's a real threat. Also you didn't say how long you've been working on the new version of you. It's not a quick fix.

As far as your question, you're talking about suppressing your drive. So basically suppressing your T levels, which would defeat and counteract the other improvements you are trying to do to make yourself more attractive. My advice is don't suppress it, boost it up, in fact go get checked for low T. Because eventually it will get to the point where you will make something happen one way or another. Making yourself comfortable isn't going to help your situation. 

Best of luck.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

I’m mid 30s and my wife constantly tells me she is scared of me leaving her. She already thinks (or says she thinks) it’s a threat.
Just to be clear, I was thinking of herbs as a short term fix to let the 180 have more effect. Not long term. Long term I’m hoping to earn her physics affections again.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

I know that she would not be asexual with a new partner if we split up, and I don’t think that she is asexual, I think that I stopped being physically attractive to her because she doesn’t see me as a strong man. I have been a strong provider for our whole relationship but I’ve never been a strong Casanova lover and I think her brain has responded to that subconsciously by turning off her desire towards me. I’m trying to buy time to turn that around by distracting myself until I become more of what she wants, but I’m struggling.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

I’ve been working on the new me for about 6 months so far


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> I’ve been working on the new me for about 6 months so far


If you have to jump through hoops to become a "Casanova" so she MIGHT reconnect with you, is it worth it? Usually once the woman disconnects, she isn't going to reconnect. I believe all this 180 stuff is for YOU, and maybe to get you ready for going on the sex market looking for your next woman, not trying to woo the one who doesn't want you anymore.

All am going to say, is I have been young lean muscular, middle-aged fat, flabby, older lean muscular. Wife's body has been all over the map too. We never disconnected. We didn't marry one another only for our physical attributes. If she had decided at some point that the spark was gone, we would have just ended it.

I think you are wasting your time thinking there is anything you can do to get your wife reattached to you. Trying to "buy time" before she finds a new "Casanova", sounds desperate which she will notice and isn't going to appeal to her. You have the rest of your life to be who YOU want to be.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

@Simplename have you read The Married Man Sex Life Primer - By Athol Kay?
You really need to revaluate your marriage, remember you can compensate many things, but you can never get back time wasted, you can never turn back time and be younger!
You are young, mid 30s, and you're already started to think how to block your libido, think about this?!
Reaching to that level of thinking at this young age is the worrying part!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So I'm guessing you used to have sex more when you first were together. So at that time, she was having sex and willing to have sex. I mean, it's not unusual for women to get off sex after some years, not at all. But if she was once willing to have sex more often, I think you need to be sure she understands that you really cannot just do without and see what she says. If she says, I am asexual," say, "I'm not. What do you want me to do?"


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Simplename said:


> I know that she would not be asexual with a new partner if we split up, and I don’t think that she is asexual, I think that I stopped being physically attractive to her because she doesn’t see me as a strong man. I have been a strong provider for our whole relationship but I’ve never been a strong Casanova lover and I think her brain has responded to that subconsciously by turning off her desire towards me. I’m trying to buy time to turn that around by distracting myself until I become more of what she wants, but I’m struggling.


I disagree, I think she is just very selfish and isn't thinking of you at all. Please tell her how much you are struggling and how this is affecting you and the marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

While you're at it having the talk, if she agrees to, say, every other week, tell her you'll agree to that provided when the time comes she doesn't reject you or put you off. 

But really, put the ball in her court if she is just not ever wanting to have sex and ask her what she would have you do about that. Be sure she understands that no sex is not an option for you and that you feel you are being reasonable settling for twice a month. I sympathize with both sides on this. Once you don't want to have sex with someone, it is more than just a chore. It feels bad and humiliating. On the other hand, so does being rejected by your wife. If she's going to step completely out of the wife role for sex, she needs to understand that you will need to have sex some way or the other. Of course, there is always masturbation. If she totally quits, maybe move to a separate bedroom where you can at least masturbate in peace.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Simplename said:


> Why she won't be intimate with me? What can I do? What am I doing wrong? How can I be more of a man? I help with chores. I help with the kids. I help clean the house. I cook all the meals. I work, she doesn't.


Weighing in as a woman, I can tell you that ^^this^^ won't make you become sexually attractive to your wife. It has provider/doormat/Beta Boy written all over it.

Why can't your wife get off her ass and at least get a part-time job? She's not working, so why are you cooking all the meals and helping her with housework? Am I saying a couple shouldn't help each other? Absolutely not. But you're the one doing all the heavy lifting while she's doing what exactly?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Weighing in as a woman, I can tell you that ^^this^^ won't make you become sexually attractive to your wife. It has provider/doormat/Beta Boy written all over it.
> 
> Why can't your wife get off her ass and at least get a part-time job? She's not working, so why are you cooking all the meals and helping her with housework? Am I saying a couple shouldn't help each other? Absolutely not. But you're the one doing all the heavy lifting while she's doing what exactly?


yes that is why I now keep it all to myself and am resistant to talking about it any more so I don’t come across as a doormat any more.

I don’t mind if she works or doesn’t work. Whatever she prefers. I enjoy cooking too.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

@Simplename so you have many poster chime in, lots of ideas, have you thought about an action plan?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> Weighing in as a woman, I can tell you that ^^this^^ won't make you become sexually attractive to your wife. It has provider/doormat/Beta Boy written all over it.
> 
> Why can't your wife get off her ass and at least get a part-time job? She's not working, so why are you cooking all the meals and helping her with housework? Am I saying a couple shouldn't help each other? Absolutely not. But you're the one doing all the heavy lifting while she's doing what exactly?


I have to agree. That works if the situation is she's mad at you because she's having to do everything for the family and that that's why no sex. But if that's not why, and it's not why here, then it actually does no good at all and is just a reward she doesn't have coming.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Simplename said:


> I’ve been working on the new me for about 6 months so far


If you are actually willing to go the route of basically cutting off a part of yourself to keep from bothering her and leaving her, you are completely missing the point of the books you are reading.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Guess I’ll be the one to say it —

Check the phone bill.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Another female here, I know a couple of women like this. Right down to the laziness at home. Don’t ever tell yourself you’re no Casanova, you’re not unattractive! She is!

Just recently I had a stern talk to one friend, it did nothing. Until her workmates actually embarrassed her. She was that proud of her revulsion of her husband she didn’t hide it, and they told her he was going to get sex elsewhere and leave her. She seemed to suddenly really get scared and admitted it was psychological, went and saw a doctor and a psychologist, and even started cooking! Her kids are older and had also pointed out how little she did at home, though she flew into a rage first when they suggested she at least try some sort of routine at dinner. I think suddenly too many people weren’t very nice to her about how poorly she was treating him.

I would suggest stopping everything that you’re doing at home. During the times I haven’t worked, I pull all of the weight at home and put in extra effort into the bedroom.

You’re married to a selfish person who doesn’t love you the way you love her and she doesn’t deserve you!

I’m so saddened to hear how lovingly you speak of her and how your life is devoid of any sort of care and appreciation.

Don’t stop thinking about sex, but do stop thinking about her, she’s not worthy of your housework at least!! Why aren’t you angry about this?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

By the way, how is her appearance at home? Outside home? Any weight gain or lack of grooming? How does she behave around friends and family? Does she make an effort to look good elsewhere? Is she generally maternal and loving towards others, fun to be with?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Well, this isn't even advice, its just me. I've been in a sexless marriage so I know where you're at.
Assuming she's not cheating, I resigned myself to a sexless existence. Once I understood her, I said to myself
'F her!'; I will not beg, borrow, cheat or revolve my existence around her. This infuriated her. So what.
There are lots of people who cannot or choose not to have sex for many number of reasons.
I agree with Diana. She is selfish.

BTW, I did eventually leave her but not about the sex. It was about the cheating which I found out way later.

Whatever you do, keep your dignity. Its the only one you have. (and that IS advice).


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Simplename said:


> ...that is why I now keep it all to myself and am resistant to talking about it any more so I don’t come across as a doormat any more.


^^This personifies the Doormat Approach to marital problems/issues/challenges. Sticking a sock in it and not asserting yourself will just get you more of the same.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I went back to school and picked up two more degrees paid for by my company, she complained that I was always studying and would try to distract me....


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Simplename said:


> I know that she would not be asexual with a new partner if we split up, and I don’t think that she is asexual, I think that I stopped being physically attractive to her because she doesn’t see me as a strong man.


You have a real problem then. Read Married Man’s Sex Life Primer if you haven’t and work on your MAP.

If you’re just biding time until then I don’t know. My wife never cut off sex as bad as yours. At my worst points still 2-3x a month. That is garbage though. The last week I had sex twice a day with her.

It is possible to improve things but she needs to see you as a guy she wants to bang and keep around.

To give you an idea of the timeline I had mentally when I had “the talk” it was 3 months. I wanted to see real effort for her in that time or I’d be out. I’d probably be living in a condo by now where I could go surfing every morning before work. This is still part of my plan but I need to chip away at her on that one.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Simplename said:


> I don’t mind if she works or doesn’t work. Whatever she prefers.


Adjust to a sexless marriage. Because that's what the rest of your life will be. She "prefers" no sex. Apparently she also "prefers" sitting on her ass and letting you be the paycheck and head chef and bottle washer. You signed up for it. You don't want to assert yourself. So that ya go.

P.S. - My late husband really enjoyed cooking so I let him have at it. I excelled at organizing the house and keeping it clean. So I did that. 

Oh, yeah, just to add ... can all your wife's attributes make up for, and sustain, you enough that you can live without sex?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> @Simplename so you have many poster chime in, lots of ideas, have you thought about an action plan?


No, I still feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I have “the talk” yet again, I will come across as beta weak unmanly and set myself back even further … or don’t have “the talk” and quietly suffer indefinitely hoping that it eventually turns around for the better.

I know many of you don’t understand, but in all other ways I am extremely happy. She’s a great partner, a great friend, a great mom, I have fun with her, I don’t want to leave because I am fulfilled in so many other ways than in the bedroom.

I was just hoping that maybe there were tricks and tips for helping me handle my dissatisfaction long enough for the 180 to start working. But it appears that a few people think the 180 won’t work in my case, which is quite discouraging.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Simplename said:


> I don’t mind if she works or doesn’t work. Whatever she prefers. I enjoy cooking too.


I think this sums up the issue right here. He has her on a pedestal and has given all reigns over to her. Though I‘m a dude, I can’t imagine this being sexually attractive to any female. Your absolute only hope is to sit her down and tell her the situation either improves or this marriage is over. You’re already (mostly) just roommates. Tell her you can still be “friends“ after the divorce. Not much would change in your current relationship!

The big question is: do you have the intestinal fortitude to put your foot down? From what you’ve written, it seems sadly the answer is no. Hope I’m wrong.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> By the way, how is her appearance at home? Outside home? Any weight gain or lack of grooming? How does she behave around friends and family? Does she make an effort to look good elsewhere? Is she generally maternal and loving towards others, fun to be with?


looks are great. She has horrible self image and self esteem issues, but I think she’s a fox. No weight gain. Yes maternal and loving and fun to be with.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Simplename said:


> I was just hoping that maybe there were tricks and tips for helping me handle my dissatisfaction long enough for the 180 to start working.


I honestly don’t mean this as a snark, but if you go to a hormone clinic (there are many online now) and ask them to proscribe meds to reduce your T and increase your Estrodial (estrogen) your sex drive will crash. This is effectively making you hormonally more like a female. If you overdo it, you’ll start to grow breasts. Not kidding.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Simplename said:


> No, I still feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I have “the talk” yet again, I will come across as beta weak unmanly and set myself back even further … or don’t have “the talk” and quietly suffer indefinitely hoping that it eventually turns around for the better.


So the books say, don’t keep having the talk. 

However, you haven’t had the real talk yet because it comes with an “or else”.

It can be an implied “or else” as it was in my case but I made it clear that the current situation would not continue. So all the great stuff that we did have is tied to fixing that and she can either try with me to fix it or not and either way that is ok but it will not continue.

With no ultimatum implied or otherwise the talk is just begging which is again not coming from a place of strength which is what you’re trying to show with the 180.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Simplename said:


> yes that is why I now keep it all to myself and am resistant to talking about it any more so I don’t come across as a doormat any more.
> 
> I don’t mind if she works or doesn’t work. Whatever she prefers. I enjoy cooking too.


You work and she is home, she does house chores, not you. That is what is making you look weak. You look like her little beta slave boy to her...that is not attractive.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Simplename said:


> looks are great. She has horrible self image and self esteem issues, but I think she’s a fox. No weight gain. Yes maternal and loving and fun to be with.


Right. So you adore her, you think she’s a fox, yet she has horrible self image issues.

Meaning she’s going to be a magnet, or already is for other male attention. Sigh. I really really do feel for you. She does think very very highly of herself, too highly. She doesn’t have terrible self worth, you do. It’s true.

Il going to shock you now: she thinks she’s a fox, but she probably isn’t. Let that sink in.

She’s not a catch. Sure, she will suddenly meet a new man and suddenly become a 5-star chef in the kitchen and put out like a pro. For a while.

This woman gives you nothing, and I even bet she’s not that fun to be around.

You’ve painted this picture of you not being a Casanova, and her being this fox who’s fun. I’ve known men who are ugly as sin but they can say the right words. Nerds who are demons in bed.

Stop thinking she has terrible self-worth and that she’s a fox.

She’s not a fox. When you change this thinking first; and start to see yourself as a catch and her as the banal bore that she is, things may dramatically improve in the bedroom. I’m serious.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Simplename said:


> If I have “the talk” yet again, I will come across as beta weak unmanly and set myself back even further … or don’t have “the talk” and quietly suffer indefinitely hoping that it eventually turns around for the better.


Let me put it this way. "The talk" never works. Never. You're not issuing boundaries as to what or what you won't accept. From her perspective, it's just you making a lot of noise with no actions to back said noise. Action. Boundaries. That's what gets results. As it is, you've made it clear you won't leave her, so why bother with all the talking. Dispense with that nonsense. It's a waste of time and serves no constructive purpose.



Simplename said:


> I was just hoping that maybe there were tricks and tips for helping me handle my dissatisfaction long enough for the 180 to start working. But it appears that a few people think the 180 won’t work in my case, which is quite discouraging.


Hope has nothing to do with it. Women respect and pursue men who are more action and less talk. A woman doesn't need to be a mind reader to know when her husband is doing the 180 in an attempt to win her back. The 180 is only for you.

The first thing you need to understand is that playing Beta Boy isn't going to get you sex. And playing at the 180 won't either. 

As it is, you've made it very clear that your wife is a great friend and companion. You'll have to accept that's what you've got. And, with the mindset you have, expect to continue being friend zoned. Sorry.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I disagree, I think she is just very selfish and isn't thinking of you at all.
> 
> Please tell her how much you are struggling and how this is affecting you and the marriage.


Your two sentences are kind of at odds with each other. If she is very selfish and not thinking of him at all, then him telling her how much he is struggling and how it is affecting him won't matter to her..... because she is selfish and not thinking of him. 

As he has already realized, "talk" is not helping anything.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> I was just hoping that maybe there were tricks and tips for helping me handle my dissatisfaction long enough for the 180 to start working. But it appears that a few people think the 180 won’t work in my case, which is quite discouraging.


I think you are completely misunderstanding the purpose of the 180.

The 180 is not therapy for relationship problems. It is not a means of getting someone attracted to you. And it is not a means to get someone back. 

The 180 is a means for YOU to start taking care of yourself and not allow someone who is cheating on your or mistreating you or simply neglecting from manipulating you and keeping you stuck in a deleterious situation. 

It is to keep YOU from being manipulated or stuck in a bad situation. It is about advocating for your own well being and having boundaries against being used and mistreated. 

The 180 does not "starting working." The 180 IS THE WORK. It's what YOU do to start taking back your own life and taking care of your own needs and well being. It is not about changing someone else's behavior.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> The 180 does not "starting working." The 180 IS THE WORK. It's what YOU do to start taking back your own life and taking care of your own needs and well being. It is not about changing someone else's behavior.


Now sometimes (and I do mean SOME times) the other party will see the other person moving on with their own life and see that they are not catering to them out of fear or manipulation and they have a wake up call and realise that the other person is moving on and causes them to reflect and improve their behavior. 

Some times that does happen, but most times it really doesn't and it is never the intent or purpose of the 180.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> You have a real problem then. Read Married Man’s Sex Life Primer if you haven’t and work on your MAP.
> 
> If you’re just biding time until then I don’t know. My wife never cut off sex as bad as yours. At my worst points still 2-3x a month. That is garbage though. The last week I had sex twice a day with her.
> 
> ...


We only have to accept what we are willing to tolerate from other people. If we tolerate abuse we will get a lot of it, because their are plenty of people who enjoy dishing it out. OP's wife sounds like one of them. If we tolerate no sex in a marriage, which is at it's core a sexual contract (forsaking all others etc ect), no sex is what we will receive. The OP claims to love his wife, evidently way more than he loves himself because he is tolerating the intolerable.

I contend all the books and self-help stuff are irrelevant without the short mental timeline you describe, and laying the cards face up on the table for the spouse to read em. Life is way too short to be miserable because we tolerate abuse from another human.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

The predominant direction this conversation feels like it is headed is that if I’m unwilling to leave my wife (at the very least threaten to in a way that doesn’t appear empty), that there is not much to do or say and that even trying to be more manly or desirable to her is unlikely to change the new status quo.

I guess I need to think hard about that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Life is way too short to be miserable because we tolerate abuse from another human.


This. I mean you’re in a sad condition when you let things happen to you.

You want to be a mover. You start the action. Things don’t happen to you, you make things happen.

Covid was a huge thing for me because it interrupted my routine enough to where I was like um… what the **** am I doing? Once I thought about it a bit I was like no. Hell no!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> The predominant direction this conversation feels like it is headed is that if I’m unwilling to leave my wife (at the very least threaten to in a way that doesn’t appear empty), that there is not much to do or say and that even trying to be more manly or desirable to her is unlikely to change the new status quo.
> 
> I guess I need to think hard about that.


Again, all the work you have and are putting into making yourself a better man is for YOU, not for her. You MAY begin attracting attention from other females, especially if you become confident and assertive. And you really shouldn't care if your wife responds, because you will have options. If she isn't interested in being intimate with you, it is HER loss. Why do you think bad boys attract women? Because the bad boys are confident and assertive. A wife doesn't respond sexually to a room mate who does all of the housework and tolerates her making him a monk. I bet if you start going out and not telling her where you are going, maybe spend the night away from home, her radar will perk up and wonder what is going on.


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## J_Money_Money (Aug 5, 2021)

Someone else alluded to it, but I didn't see the question answered...they asked if you've "checked the phone bill"...
So yes, I would definitely ask if you are 1000% sure she isn't cheating on you? Understand, I am not saying that she "definitely is", and I know that even asking this question brings up a very uncomfortable thought.

Your likely knee-jerk response would be "she would never do something like that", and so you'll discount the question. Well, don't discount the question. At least look into it. A LOT of people being cheated on don't even believe it's a possibility because they really think they know the other person. I speak from firsthand experience. And the few times that my spidey senses went off, I discounted it. In hindsight, I wish I would have looked into it, could have saved myself a lot of grief.

Assuming that's not it, you did mention that she has low self-esteem, low self-image...I'm no woman, but I tend to believe that's not helpful. I had a conversation recently with a friend whose wife just had a baby, it was their first child. She isn't really ready to get back into sex like it was pre-baby.. and he's struggling... my girlfriend offered a woman's perspective on this.. basically, a lot of women feel unattractive after the baby, thus she needs reassurance from her husband over some sustained period of time to help counter her low self-image.. because if a woman doesn't feel attractive, she isn't going to want to expose herself in the ways necessary for intercourse.. that's what my GF said anyway...

On the other hand, I know that a lot of people cheat because they have low self-esteem (or at least it can be one component). My ex-wife and I had drifted apart over time, I had basically starved her out emotionally..and she had done things to drive that, but that's a whole other story...point being, emotional withdrawal didn't help her self-esteem...common theme low self-esteem..maybe working on you isn't the issue, maybe building her up is?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> We've had "the talk" a number of times. She says she is asexual. That she doesn't want sex from anybody, not just me. She says she's very satisfied with me as her husband and loves everything about me and our relationship. But just doesn't want to have sex.


I don't believe in asexuality. Oh sure, it's like UFOs and Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, people claim to see them and say they walk among us and there is some kind of phenomenon out there that keeps the stories circulating,, but no one has been able to actually produce one and bring it to the scientific community for actual study and classification. 

Women's sexuality is like grass in the yard during a drought. When they are not attracted and aroused, their sexualities can go dormant, stop growing and turn brown and brittle. This can go on for years or even decades when they are not in the company of a man they desire or who knows how to arouse and stimulate them. 

But like how the grass can suddenly turn green and lush when the rains return, so too can a woman's libido when a new man that she is attracted to comes into the picture. 

She herself will not understand and would not necessarily see it coming until she is embroiled in her own desire. 
Her actually physiology can change. I personally know a gal that hadn't been with anyone for over half dozen years and was a few years post menopausal and hadn't had a menstrual period for years and when she got with someone and started having sex again, her periods came back and she started having regular monthly periods again, at least for awhile. 

And of course she likes your marriage - you are providing a service and providing comfort and provisioning and other than bugging her for sex every few months, you really aren't costing her anything. She has it made.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

J_Money_Money said:


> Someone else alluded to it, but I didn't see the question answered...they asked if you've "checked the phone bill"...
> So yes, I would definitely ask if you are 1000% sure she isn't cheating on you? Understand, I am not saying that she "definitely is", and I know that even asking this question brings up a very uncomfortable thought.
> 
> Your likely knee-jerk response would be "she would never do something like that", and so you'll discount the question. Well, don't discount the question. At least look into it. A LOT of people being cheated on don't even believe it's a possibility because they really think they know the other person. I speak from firsthand experience. And the few times that my spidey senses went off, I discounted it. In hindsight, I wish I would have looked into it, could have saved myself a lot of grief.
> ...


She couldn’t cheat even if she wanted to. She doesn’t drive so I am her only means of transportation. I also work from home so we are basically never apart


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## johndoe12299 (Jul 12, 2021)

Simplename said:


> I’m mid 30s and my wife constantly tells me she is scared of me leaving her. She already thinks (or says she thinks) it’s a threat.
> Just to be clear, I was thinking of herbs as a short term fix to let the 180 have more effect. Not long term. Long term I’m hoping to earn her physics affections again.


My soon to be ex wife of 10 year told me the same that yours is telling you. She is "asexual", always scared of me leaving her b/c of lack of sex.



She left me 2 months ago and had an affair 2 days after leaving me... so, yeah, good luck with that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Simplename said:


> She couldn’t cheat even if she wanted to. She doesn’t drive so I am her only means of transportation. I also work from home so we are basically never apart


Maybe teach her to drive? Do some fun stuff with her and take her out of the Stone Age.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Why doesn’t she drive and why doesn’t she work? Does she have outside interests or hobbies, close family and friends?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Why doesn’t she drive and why doesn’t she work? Does she have outside interests or hobbies, close family and friends?


She’s had lifelong anxiety about driving. I’ve tried to help her get over it many times but gave up. She adamantly doesn’t want to drive. She doesn’t have many outside friends or family or outside interests. Again… I’ve tried to encourage them but she just doesn’t want to.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Simplename said:


> She’s had lifelong anxiety about driving. I’ve tried to help her get over it many times but gave up. She adamantly doesn’t want to drive. She doesn’t have many outside friends or family or outside interests. Again… I’ve tried to encourage them but she just doesn’t want to.


For work she has had a retail job on and off over the years. But hasn’t had one for years.


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## johndoe12299 (Jul 12, 2021)

johndoe12299 said:


> My soon to be ex wife of 10 year told me the same that yours is telling you. She is "asexual", always scared of me leaving her b/c of lack of sex.
> 
> 
> 
> She left me 2 months ago and had an affair 2 days after leaving me... so, yeah, good luck with that.


I know you don't want to believe this about your wife OP, but i was the same. "She would never do that!" I dismissed the possibility despite multiple people telling me to check phone records.

If it hasn't happened yet, it will. It will if nothing changes, and it sounds like you are doing what you can to make it change; and she isn't receptive. You need to be prepared to offer an ultimatum or it may be months, or years, before you're in an emotional state of shock when you find out your wife is having an affair.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> She couldn’t cheat even if she wanted to. She doesn’t drive so I am her only means of transportation. I also work from home so we are basically never apart


She doesn't have the drive FOR YOU. 

If someone else flips on her arousal switches, she could be like a porn star right under nose. 

Have you been with her 24/7 for years?? Really? she's never gone to the store or to take the kids to school or their friend's house? 

I'm not saying she has or has not cheated. But don't delude yourself into thinking that she can't. She is a woman and she has a vagina so she hook up with any dude, anywhere, any time if she so chose. 

I have written about this before, but in my young and single days I was a serial Other Man and got with a handful of married women. Some for a night. Some on an ongoing basis for a number of years. Trysts can literally take place in minutes. 

A hook up can take place in the restroom of a bar on a girls night out before the other women even know she's gone. People can get down in a car in a city park or in the back of the parking lot of the grocery store. 

Single women looking for BF or spouse need candlelight dinners and moonlight walks on the beach and movie date nights etc etc

A married woman has all her domestic and relationship needs met at home so if she gets the hots for Sven From Yoga or that guy down the street that's building the patio deck with his shirt off, she only needs a place with no witnesses for however long it takes him to bust a nut.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So she can't even do the grocery shopping by herself.

She's completely incapable of being an adult on her own.

Lots of teenagers are more self sufficient. They drive, work full time (over the summers), can go shopping by themselves, and perhaps even do more housework and cooking than your wife does.

Let that sink in.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok, doesn’t drive, doesn’t cook, doesn’t shop, doesn’t have sex, doesn’t have outside interests or friends. You’ve described a non-person. Was she like this when you met? Did she have some sort desire or passion in her life before she met you?

Stop trying to fix any of that or encourage anything.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Have you been with her 24/7 for years?? Really? she's never gone to the store or to take the kids to school or their friend's house?


We used to live in a city that had buses, but moved and the new place you can’t even catch a bus. For the last 5 years she has never gone to a store, taken the kids to school, or gone to a friends house without me.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Just because you love her doesn’t mean she loves you. Go your own way. Stop doing anything for her and concentrate on yourself and what you like.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Just because you love her doesn’t mean she loves you. Go your own way. Stop doing anything for her and concentrate on yourself and what you like.


I am convinced that she loves me in every way except carnal. And from all the expert opinions I’m reading, it’s my fault she’s not hot for me. I’m trying to be more manly. I hope I’m not too late.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

She sounds almost like a prisoner. Why not broaden her horizons and let her bloom?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Aside from cheating it’s possible she has a very very low libido. She says she has never masturbated in her whole life. I have never caught her in the act and she has never owned a vibrator. I even bought her one once and she got mad at me and threw it away.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> She’s had lifelong anxiety about driving. I’ve tried to help her get over it many times but gave up. She adamantly doesn’t want to drive. She doesn’t have many outside friends or family or outside interests. Again… I’ve tried to encourage them but she just doesn’t want to.


OK for starters, you are not a shrink or therapist so it's not up to you to fix her. 

But where I'm really going with this is with each passing post it is becoming more and more apparent that this chick has a number of screws loose and is a train wreck. 

You have allowed yourself to become such an enabling simp and beta that you are desperate for her attention and validation of your manhood and are allowing yourself to starve to death where as SHE is the one that is disordered and she is lucky to have you putting food on her table and a roof over her head because she is incapable of such basic adult tasks such as driving to the corner grocery store to feed herself. 

Since you are talking about these Red Pill books, the person you need to get in contact with is Richard Cooper the author of "The Unplugged Alpha" and who has the "Before The Train Wreck" podcasts. 

One of his mantras is that men screw up their lives and then make excuses for it. This is exactly what you have done. You have put babies into a disordered, dysfunctional, train wreck that can now no longer meet your most basic need for physical contact as a man, and you make excuses of how much you love her and how fun she is and how perfect your marriage is otherwise. 

The fact you come home and feed her AT ALL is a blessing for her for she would otherwise be on the street starving until she can find another simp that will feed her in exchange for poon. That simp will at least be getting some for awhile. 

Her fear may not necessarily be of leaving because you've made it clear that you won't. Her fear is likely that if you die or something, that other men won't be as accommidating and gullible. 

It's time you take an actual inventory of just what you are getting out of this relationship and whether it is of any actual benefit for you to be in it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Simplename said:


> We used to live in a city that had buses, but moved and the new place you can’t even catch a bus. For the last 5 years she has never gone to a store, taken the kids to school, or gone to a friends house without me.


Is this because she wants you there with her every minute? Even when she goes to see a friend she wants you there? And wants you doing the all the shopping? (A woman who doesn’t like shopping???)

Or because you’re wanting to be there? I’m sensing something but I’m not sure if posting it here would be the right thing to do. I’ll know by how you respond to this ‘sense’ I’m having.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> She sounds almost like a prisoner. Why not broaden her horizons and let her bloom?


I’ve tried many many many many times.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> We used to live in a city that had buses, but moved and the new place you can’t even catch a bus. For the last 5 years she has never gone to a store, taken the kids to school, or gone to a friends house without me.


Imo living that way would be depressing. How would any adult feel if they had never gone anywhere in 5 years without their spouse?. Indeed, depression might be major contributor.
Is she on antidepressants? They are libido killers.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> I am convinced that she loves me in every way except carnal. And from all the expert opinions I’m reading, it’s my fault she’s not hot for me. I’m trying to be more manly. I hope I’m not too late.


It's not about your manliness. She is a nonfunctional person and a failure as an adult.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

She sounds like a child. A young one. Right down to the sexlessness.

What do her parents think about her inability to adult?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Is this because she wants you there with her every minute? Even when she goes to see a friend she wants you there? And wants you doing the all the shopping? (A woman who doesn’t like shopping???)
> 
> Or because you’re wanting to be there? I’m sensing something but I’m not sure if posting it here would be the right thing to do. I’ll know by how you respond to this ‘sense’ I’m having.


I’ve dropped her off to hang out with her friends and I’ve dropped her off to do clothing shopping. She hates shopping at the grocery store, I do that without her. 

I don’t want to be with her all the time. I try to encourage her to be more independent. But it’s hard when I’m driving her everywhere and she doesn’t want that to change.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> I’ve tried many many many many times.


If she is as you say, it's not up to you fix her. She needs professional help.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Livvie said:


> She sounds like a child. A young one. Right down to the sexlessness.
> 
> What do her parents think about her inability to adult?


Her dad has never been a part of her life and her mom disowned her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> I’ve dropped her off to hang out with her friends and I’ve dropped her off to do clothing shopping. She hates shopping at the grocery store, I do that without her.
> 
> I don’t want to be with her all the time. I try to encourage her to be more independent. But it’s hard when I’m driving her everywhere and she doesn’t want that to change.


Dropping people off for play dates with friends is what parents do with young children.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If she is as you say, it's not up to you fix her. She needs professional help.


I’ve tried to get her professional help many times too. I’ve basically forced her to see a therapist a few times. She hated it and quit every time.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Imo living that way would be depressing. How would any adult feel if they had never gone anywhere in 5 years without their spouse?. Indeed, depression might be major contributor.
> Is she on antidepressants? They are libido killers.


She has been on and off antidepressants over the years. Currently off.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Sounds pretty hopeless. Sorry to say that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> I’ve tried to get her professional help many times too. I’ve basically forced her to see a therapist a few times. She hated it and quit every time.


so she's a train wreck, she's nonfunctional as an adult, she doesn't put out. And she refuses help. so what exactly is in this for you??


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> Her dad has never been a part of her life and her mom disowned her.


Why did her mom disown her? Why fid her Dad have nothing to do with her? Your description sounds like a badly damaged traumatized person.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Why did her mom disown her? Why fid her Dad have nothing to do with her? Your description sounds like a badly damaged traumatized person.


Her mom disowned her because she was dating me and chose to live with me instead of her. Her mom is a psychotic narcissistic who was super controlling and told her she was useless and ugly her whole life.

She is badly traumatized, she knows that and I know that. I’ve tried to encourage her to get help, but she doesn’t think anyone can help.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Why did her mom disown her? Why fid her Dad have nothing to do with her? Your description sounds like a badly damaged traumatized person.


Her mom didn’t let the dad have anything to do with her life and he decided to allow that to be even after she became an adult. She’s never been interested in reaching out to him.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> so she's a train wreck, she's nonfunctional as an adult, she doesn't put out. And she refuses help. so what exactly is in this for you??


We have been through a lot together. We care a lot about each other. Her mental and emotional companionship is great.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> Her mom disowned her because she was dating me and chose to live with me instead of her. Her mom is a psychotic narcissistic who was super controlling and told her she was useless and ugly her whole life.
> 
> She is badly traumatized, she knows that and I know that. I’ve tried to encourage her to get help, but she doesn’t think anyone can help.


Well that sure sounds like the core issue, and antidepressants arent helping libido. But I can certsinly imagine sex least of her concerns. I have no idea how you can help a traumatized person who doesnt want help.

And you becoming more manly may not be the issue. She is so damaged by her FOO, she maybe cant have a normal relationship with a husband. Is it possible she unconsciously sees you as her father figure?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I want to reemphasize that this is not about your lack of manliness and your lack of masculinity is not at the core of your problems here. 

The core of your issues is YOUR lack of standards and boundaries and lack of expectation of even the most basic of adult functioning in her. 

She may have self esteem and confidence problems as you say, but babysitting her has eroded your own sense of worth and esteem in yourself as man, husband and lover. 

If you cannot get her to a therapist, then get yourself to one for you too have been damaged and have your own demons to manage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> We have been through a lot together. We care a lot about each other. Her mental and emotional companionship is great.


That's scary. 

It's concerning that you consider someone so disordered and who does not meet your most basic of human needs "great."


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Ugh.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Simplename said:


> We have been through a lot together. .


I bet you have!!!! LOL


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’m guessing she must be seriously resentful, has some sort of hormonal imbalance, or has suffered sexual abuse in the past. Normal happy and healthy people don’t just shut down like this IMO.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Okay. Time to get honest and downright blunt here. You and your wife are a couple of broken toys who are clinging to each other like grim death. It doesn't need to be that way, but apparently you need to continue this death dance, so here's a recap of what you've told us thus far:

Your wife is:
funny
fun
smart
great partner
great friend
great mom
great person to be with
Or, to quote you, "I have fun with her."

You also made these points about your wife:
no job
doesn't drive due to "anxiety" about driving a vehicle
won't seek professional help
doesn't think anyone can help her
scared of you leaving her
claims to be asexual
horrible self image
self esteem issues
no outside friends
no family
no interests
hates grocery shopping
Or, to quote you, "For the past five years she has never gone to a store, taken the kids to school, or gone to a friend's house without me."

Now I'm going to address you, since you are the one posting. What do you think is wrong with all of ^^this^^?

You want to lie to yourself and feed yourself a load of bull crap, fine - no skin off my nose. But I'm not keen on someone speaking out both sides of their mouth when they seek advice. 

I'm going to ask you what's "fun" about a woman who is terrified of abandonment and clings to you like a child? What are you getting out of this? Because it has be be SOMETHING. 

Sorry to be so blunt, but you both sound like you're in dire need of professional help. No, you can't help yourself when you try to rescue an emotionally-broken woman from herself. And, sorry, but I don't see how someone who doesn't even venture out of the house without assistance is "fun." 

This is a big, hot mess. No boundaries. No realization of a strong self identity. No self-esteem. Everyone enmeshed in everyone else's neuroses. Good lord.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You said she has never gone to a friends house without you, but you say you’re dropping her off.

I want to know, which statement is true.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

“I'm going to ask you what's "fun" about a woman who is terrified of abandonment and clings to you like a child?”

I’m going to ask if it’s him that’s terrified of abandonment. She seems to have control of only one thing: sex.

The more I read, the more I question this perfect set up of a woman who has no family, moved to an area where there are no buses, no need for shopping or friends or work or stores or kids or cooking. She really truly needs nothing???


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

So sorry @Simplename 

If you truly want to seem manly take her to a dr and get a complete blood workup done to see if there is any issues there. Do you guys have date nights where just you guys go out to say a nice restaurant. Next after the meal go to a bar or dance club and have some fun. Tell her these are going to happen and if she is truly worried about being alone she should want to do this, because if not she will end up being alone. Tell her this firmly that you can not go on like this and you will not. Best of luck!


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## alights (May 10, 2021)

Simplename said:


> I really want my wife's physical attention, but if I can't have that, I just want the desires and thoughts to just stop.


1. The desires will never stop. We are sexual beings and crave it. How people can put up with this much and go without will always amaze me.

2. You can "man up" all you want, but if she knows you are not willing to kick her out that door, she will never change. She knows she has power over you and is abusing it. By not taking care of your needs and putting hers over yours is not a loving relationship. She can say she cares, but her actions show otherwise. 

How to fix: Tell her that this Friday you expect to have some "us" time and have her get out something sexy to wear and get ready for some fun. Take the lead. Don't wait for her to do it, just tell her what you want. If she balks at it, then that's when you tell her that, you'll be calling a lawyer tomorrow and tell her to pack up her things and to start finding a new place to stay. Don't waiver and don't say "maybe you should". You can tell her that you love her, but make sure she knows that you love yourself more and you can easily find someone else that will love you and meet your needs more than her.

If the threat of getting rid of her followed up my the reaffirming that you can easily find someone else doesn't giver her that shock she needs to change, then you really are better without her.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Simplename said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been with my wife almost 20 years. She's my true love, I love her so much. She's my favorite person in the world. I think she's attractive, smart, fun, funny and a great person to be with. Our kids are in elementary school, so thank god there are no more diapers in our life.
> 
> ...


This is going to be a super unpopular post, but i'll write it, partly cause I simply don't care what others think, and party cause I want to help you. I'm older, been in a lot of relationships, been married for 16 years currently. Throughout my life, the husbands I see that are complaining about not getting any action are the ones that the wives KNOW won't get it somewhere else. You can be confident, masculine, good looking, rich, etc., but if your girl knows that if she doesn't put out and you won't do anything about it, then she will continue not to put out, despite anything you THINK you can do to get that spark back. This especially rings true if your wife hasn't witnessed other women hitting on you in public.

Think about that, and change that one dynamic. Let your wife know that you will be having sex, if not with her, with someone else. This will only work if your wife thinks you have some game and can actually get laid pretty easy without paying for it. You don't need to tell her, just dropping hints is fine. When your out in public, don't be afraid to look at other women and flirt openly. My wife and almost every girl i've been with gets super sexualized when they see other women hitting on me. Women want what other women want. 

Whatever you do, DO NOT try and tame your libido, it's the one thing that breathes life into you. You only get it for a limited time, don't ruin it. I'm older and my libido went down quite a bit and I HATE that. For you to be trying to get that seems crazy to me.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I disagree, I think she is just very selfish and isn't thinking of you at all. Please tell her how much you are struggling and how this is affecting you and the marriage.


No No and NOOOO. Whatever you do, don't do any of these. Women don't respond sexually to "hi honey, i'm really struggling here and this lack of sex if really getting me down and affecting our marriage, can you help". Do not do that, it'll make it worse. Your wife isn't selfish for not putting out, she just doesn't have the desire to.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Mybabysgotit said:


> This is going to be a super unpopular post, but i'll write it, partly cause I simply don't care what others think, and party cause I want to help you. I'm older, been in a lot of relationships, been married for 16 years currently. Throughout my life, the husbands I see that are complaining about not getting any action are the ones that the wives KNOW won't get it somewhere else. You can be confident, masculine, good looking, rich, etc., but if your girl knows that if she doesn't put out and you won't do anything about it, then she will continue not to put out, despite anything you THINK you can do to get that spark back. This especially rings true if your wife hasn't witnessed other women hitting on you in public.
> 
> Think about that, and change that one dynamic. Let your wife know that you will be having sex, if not with her, with someone else. This will only work if your wife thinks you have some game and can actually get laid pretty easy without paying for it. You don't need to tell her, just dropping hints is fine. When your out in public, don't be afraid to look at other women and flirt openly. My wife and almost every girl i've been with gets super sexualized when they see other women hitting on me. Women want what other women want.
> 
> Whatever you do, DO NOT try and tame your libido, it's the one thing that breathes life into you. You only get it for a limited time, don't ruin it. I'm older and my libido went down quite a bit and I HATE that. For you to be trying to get that seems crazy to me.


Finally someone said it, thank you!
And yo know what @Simplename if you go around reading about dead bedroom forums and sex and marriages and see what are men complaining about you will very quickly see a pattern of the type of men that get this type of treatment from their wives!


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Simplename said:


> I know that she would not be asexual with a new partner if we split up, and I don’t think that she is asexual, I think that I stopped being physically attractive to her because she doesn’t see me as a strong man. I have been a strong provider for our whole relationship but I’ve never been a strong Casanova lover and I think her brain has responded to that subconsciously by turning off her desire towards me. I’m trying to buy time to turn that around by distracting myself until I become more of what she wants, but I’m struggling.


You need to be more of the man you want to be, for you. Remember you are an individual. Married yes, that doesn't diminish you. 

Keep working out at the gym, and daily development your ability to have unscripted mundane conversations with women you run into in daily life. You're not looking for a fling but you have to be skilled in presenting yourself as desirable to other women. Take this time to practice that skill.

Even when your out shopping with the W, be conversant with the opposite sex. Don't cross the line but going near the line is ok at this point.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Another female here, I know a couple of women like this. Right down to the laziness at home. Don’t ever tell yourself you’re no Casanova, you’re not unattractive! She is!
> 
> Just recently I had a stern talk to one friend, it did nothing. Until her workmates actually embarrassed her. She was that proud of her revulsion of her husband she didn’t hide it, and they told her he was going to get sex elsewhere and leave her. She seemed to suddenly really get scared and admitted it was psychological, went and saw a doctor and a psychologist, and even started cooking! Her kids are older and had also pointed out how little she did at home, though she flew into a rage first when they suggested she at least try some sort of routine at dinner. I think suddenly too many people weren’t very nice to her about how poorly she was treating him.
> 
> ...


F'n A right.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I can say that when women in public are overly interested in me when I’m with my wife she responds same day in the sack. So +1 to assertion above. 

It probably largely depends on where you’re starting from. OP seems pretty far from that if he’s at the chemical castration starting point.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Simplename said:


> no longer initiating sexual advances


Which book advised this? That has been the single worst thing I have done in the pursuit of an improved sex life.


Simplename said:


> I love the woman to death


Can you give her what she needs to be happy? Stop loving her to Death. Love her to Life.


Rus47 said:


> I bet if you start going out and not telling her where you are going, maybe spend the night away from home,


Honestly this is the advice I would give you. What your wife needs to be happy is a man she is interested in. You can be that man. You can only be that man if you decide to be interesting.
We have focused on your wife, but you are focused on yourself. Well if you are serious about being your best self, one of the things you need to be is interesting. You need to have Hobbies, interests, friends, commitments outside the house. 
And yes, you need to spend a night away from home on a regular basis. At least as often as you are currently having sex. 
My advice: 
If you don't have a current hobby, resurrect one. If you never had one, Find one. Your hobby should take enough time that you won't be able to cook some of the dinners.
Leave the home. Go play a sport, or fish, of go to a concert, or even a movie.
Go overnight. Don't worry that she will cry all night, she won't. She will have time to develop her thoughts about you. She will have experience with what it feels to be alone.
Talk about things she isn't interested in, but that you are. Let her know you have an existence separate from her.
Initiate sex openly, unreservedly, and unambiguously. Do it twice a week. When she rejects you, just blow it off, because she didn't reject you , she rejected a sexual opportunity. And it is no big deal to you because there will be another on in just a few days. 
. . . . .But she will reject your advances a lot less often than you think. 

What you are looking for:
She will start asking you about your hobby, interests and trips.
Those conversations will be something she looks forward to.
She will ask you if she can participate.

If you are looking for a "trick" Going away overnight is it.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Mr. Nail said:


> Which book advised this? That has been the single worst thing I have done in the pursuit of an improved sex life.
> 
> Can you give her what she needs to be happy? Stop loving her to Death. Love her to Life.
> 
> ...


I appreciate this advice thank you! I used to travel quite a lot for work, but haven’t much at all in the last five years. I have been trying to avoid traveling because of the stink she would put up every time I used to, but I can see how it has hurt me to do so. Traveling for work is a natural and easy excuse to get away.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> You need to be more of the man you want to be, for you. Remember you are an individual. Married yes, that doesn't diminish you.
> 
> Keep working out at the gym, and daily development your ability to have unscripted mundane conversations with women you run into in daily life. You're not looking for a fling but you have to be skilled in presenting yourself as desirable to other women. Take this time to practice that skill.
> 
> Even when your out shopping with the W, be conversant with the opposite sex. Don't cross the line but going near the line is ok at this point.


I could do that, that makes sense. Thank you!


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> This is going to be a super unpopular post, but i'll write it, partly cause I simply don't care what others think, and party cause I want to help you. I'm older, been in a lot of relationships, been married for 16 years currently. Throughout my life, the husbands I see that are complaining about not getting any action are the ones that the wives KNOW won't get it somewhere else. You can be confident, masculine, good looking, rich, etc., but if your girl knows that if she doesn't put out and you won't do anything about it, then she will continue not to put out, despite anything you THINK you can do to get that spark back. This especially rings true if your wife hasn't witnessed other women hitting on you in public.
> 
> Think about that, and change that one dynamic. Let your wife know that you will be having sex, if not with her, with someone else. This will only work if your wife thinks you have some game and can actually get laid pretty easy without paying for it. You don't need to tell her, just dropping hints is fine. When your out in public, don't be afraid to look at other women and flirt openly. My wife and almost every girl i've been with gets super sexualized when they see other women hitting on me. Women want what other women want.
> 
> Whatever you do, DO NOT try and tame your libido, it's the one thing that breathes life into you. You only get it for a limited time, don't ruin it. I'm older and my libido went down quite a bit and I HATE that. For you to be trying to get that seems crazy to me.


Thanks to this thread and some more thinking and reflecting, I decided to stay away from the herbs. You are right. I was just in a dark place looking for an easy way out. I can see that’s not the path now.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

There are ways to connect her with the notion her non-involvement puts her at risk of you choosing to enjoy your sexuality elsewhere, besides the explicitly declaring if she doesn’t put out you will find it elsewhere.

That nuclear option has its purpose, I suppose, but you should acquaint yourself with what purpose it served for those here who have actually used it. The result may not be motivating her to have sex. It may be quite the opposite.

That said, I agree some people sensing they have nothing to lose will settle deeper into doing nothing. So, I would agree that is important to address. It matters greatly how, though.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OK OP

There are a few things people haven't covered.

You say she has never masturbated. That's ok. But the $1,000,000 question is does she orgasm.
Hint is you are only sticking your penis in her vagina the answer is most likely no. No matter what she says or moans.

What does sex look like for you as a couple?
Do you two now or in the past ever have sexual conversations like day after game follow ups? I like this, when you did this it made me feel.... 

Do you own any toys?
Do you give oral? does she?

Many times when woman don't care about sex it is often because it is something the woman does for the man like a chore. They aren't getting much physical pleasure. There are some truly low libido's and there are lots of never experienced the same thing men do all the time. The pleasure of an orgasm.

Secondly, She can't be having an affair because she is home...... She can be having an emotional online affair.

Third she needs to contribute. It's ok if she doesn't have a job. or even if she doesn't cook or something. But she needs to contribute somehow someway to something. It is what makes many humans less depressed. So have her grow some fresh food or volunteer at the food bank or something. Being a non-person isn't mentally healthy.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> OK OP
> 
> There are a few things people haven't covered.
> 
> ...


If she's never masturbated, which is almost impossible to believe, hell, that's a bad enough sign.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> If she's never masturbated, which is almost impossible to believe, hell, that's a bad enough sign.


not really I don't masturbate. I can't say I never have but never really wanted to.

I have sex as often as my husband would like. So not sure it's such a bad sign.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Are you scared to leave her because of her mental state?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> not really I don't masturbate. I can't say I never have but never really wanted to.
> 
> I have sex as often as my husband would like. So not sure it's such a bad sign.


But you in fact have. Versus some who professes they never have ever. That's the sign.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> But you in fact have. Versus some who professes they never have ever. That's the sign.


I can't say I never have but I'm an old fart and less than probably 25 times in my life have I masturbated.
Also spouses don't always know and people don't always admit depends on the stigma.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Sex is great once it starts, I go down on her almost every time, she doesn’t go down on me. Loads of positions. I often get her to cum multiple times. She says she always has fun once we start, but has trouble committing to getting going.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Please refer to post #86. I'd really like to know the answer to the question(s) I posed. Thank you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I disagree, I think she is just very selfish and isn't thinking of you at all. Please tell her how much you are struggling and how this is affecting you and the marriage.


Also ask her why she chooses to remain married if she no longer wants her. When she gives you the predictable answers (companionship, security) tell her those aren't good enough for you.


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Please refer to post #86. I'd really like to know the answer to the question(s) I posed. Thank you.


The heart wants what it wants. Sorry I don’t feel like giving a more satisfying answer.


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## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Simplename said:


> But after about a month my brain starts to think about sex often. After two months, I start to think about sex for most of the day. Why she won't be intimate with me? What can I do? What am I doing wrong? How can I be more of a man? I help with chores. I help with the kids. I help clean the house. I cook all the meals. I work, she doesn't. I'm in pretty good shape. I work out 6 days a week.


I'd start by not helping out at all in the home.
You sound like too much of a doormat for any woman to want.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Simplename said:


> Sorry I don’t feel like giving a more satisfying answer.


Or any answer at all. My guess is you aren't here for suggestions or advice but merely to vent.

You certainly didn't paint your wife in a pleasant manner, did you?


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## Simplename (Aug 22, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Or any answer at all. My guess is you aren't here for suggestions or advice but merely to vent.
> 
> You certainly didn't paint your wife in a pleasant manner, did you?


As I’ve said multiple times, there have been many suggestions from this thread that I am planning on using. I have even said how I plan to implement some of them. Thank you to everyone who has participated.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> I'd start by not helping out at all in the home.
> You sound like too much of a doormat for any woman to want.


Right don't help out in the house you live in.

And you forgot to tell him not to parent those kids.....


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Do you have a bath or a shower or both? The reason I'm asking is it's a good way to get romantic and my ex hubby and myself it would always lead to sex. Get some candles burning in the bathroom when kids are settled. Fill up a nice warm/hot bubble bath. Have a bottle of wine cooling in the fridge. Tell your wife you have a surprise in the bathroom and help strip her so she gets into the bath. Tell her she is beautiful. Then climb in with her. Relax, talk about good times, drink the wine. Let her lay on you so you can scrub, massage her back, wash her hair, her breasts etc. Then turn around so she can do the same for you. Hopefully you can both get horny enough to have sex. After your bath massage oil over each others bodies while kissing her, this would also end in sex for us. My ex hubby and myself could spend ages in the bath and always had sex. A glass of wine or two may relax her. If you only have a shower you can shower together, minus the wine haha, but can drink that afterwards. You can wash each others body, kiss and get those hands exploring. You can make this a regular habit. Tell her how much you love her and how beautiful she is etc. Then get her to initiate the next time. Depending on what time you get home or kids are settled, tell her to get the bath ready and you will get the wine and candles for bath or the shower. If my ex husband said if you won't have sex I will find someone else to have sex with, I would say go on but the marriage is over. She has probably got bored with life, isolated, feeling depressed or become too content because she is always at home. She needs hobbies, interests outside of the house and only she can help herself. There are many ways to get that spark going, but you would probably need to inniate the first times and do the work and hopefully she will want to start ripping your clothes off. Go on romantic picnics with or without the kids. Get a book on all sex positions and make it fun and exciting by trying them all from the beginning. Go for a romantic meal, ask her to wear no knickers because it would turn you on and on way home pull over where no police will catch you both haha, and just have a steamy session in the car. But you need to know that she is comfortable for this 1st and she will need to feel fully relaxed. So so many things you can try to get that spark back. If she is cold to you after attempting these things then you will know in your heart sex is dead in your marriage. Then maybe think about divorce. Only she can help herself but you can walk away knowing you tried if she isn't willing. My ex would brush my hair while I was sitting on the floor between his legs, and kiss the back of my neck. This always sent me wild and made me so horny. Little things like that can lead to better things haha. If you're a good man don't threaten to f*ck another woman, she will probably have a breakdown. She needs ic or a therapist and only she can do that for herself. Give her a chance and if all fails you know you can walk away knowing you did the right thing. Good luck.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Do you have a bath or a shower or both? The reason I'm asking is it's a good way to get romantic and my ex hubby and myself it would always lead to sex. Get some candles burning in the bathroom when kids are settled. Fill up a nice warm/hot bubble bath. Have a bottle of wine cooling in the fridge. Tell your wife you have a surprise in the bathroom and help strip her so she gets into the bath. Tell her she is beautiful. Then climb in with her. Relax, talk about good times, drink the wine. Let her lay on you so you can scrub, massage her back, wash her hair, her breasts etc. Then turn around so she can do the same for you. Hopefully you can both get horny enough to have sex. After your bath massage oil over each others bodies while kissing her, this would also end in sex for us. My ex hubby and myself could spend ages in the bath and always had sex. A glass of wine or two may relax her. If you only have a shower you can shower together, minus the wine haha, but can drink that afterwards. You can wash each others body, kiss and get those hands exploring. You can make this a regular habit. Tell her how much you love her and how beautiful she is etc. Then get her to initiate the next time. Depending on what time you get home or kids are settled, tell her to get the bath ready and you will get the wine and candles for bath or the shower. If my ex husband said if you won't have sex I will find someone else to have sex with, I would say go on but the marriage is over. She has probably got bored with life, isolated, feeling depressed or become too content because she is always at home. She needs hobbies, interests outside of the house and only she can help herself. There are many ways to get that spark going, but you would probably need to inniate the first times and do the work and hopefully she will want to start ripping your clothes off. Go on romantic picnics with or without the kids. Get a book on all sex positions and make it fun and exciting by trying them all from the beginning. Go for a romantic meal, ask her to wear no knickers because it would turn you on and on way home pull over where no police will catch you both haha, and just have a steamy session in the car. But you need to know that she is comfortable for this 1st and she will need to feel fully relaxed. So so many things you can try to get that spark back. If she is cold to you after attempting these things then you will know in your heart sex is dead in your marriage. Then maybe think about divorce. Only she can help herself but you can walk away knowing you tried if she isn't willing. My ex would brush my hair while I was sitting on the floor between his legs, and kiss the back of my neck. This always sent me wild and made me so horny. Little things like that can lead to better things haha. If you're a good man don't threaten to f*ck another woman, she will probably have a breakdown. She needs ic or a therapist and only she can do that for herself. Give her a chance and if all fails you know you can walk away knowing you did the right thing. Good luck.
> 
> When you walk through a storm
> Hold your head up high
> ...


I think it's best for him to be more dominant and assertive, candles and flowers wont work


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> I think it's best for him to be more dominant and assertive, candles and flowers wont work


Try both haha.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

He is dominant, that is how she got smothered. Love bombing is just more smother.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> He is dominant, that is how she got smothered. Love bombing is just more smother.


You don't become dominant and assertive if you love bomb, it's the complete opposite!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Simplename said:


> She couldn’t cheat even if she wanted to. She doesn’t drive so I am her only means of transportation. I also work from home so we are basically never apart


That could be part of the problem. Too much familiarity. No time to miss each other. I mean, too much of a good thing, maybe? I think some space wouldn't hurt.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Simplename said:


> Correct, I don’t want to leave, I love the woman to death


Then you’ve already lost.

If you can’t / won’t leave, then you have no power in the relationship and you will never get any respect, attraction or sex from your wife. And you don’t have a good marriage, you have a terrible marriage, because sex is a core foundational component of a marriage.

All those books you read about improving yourself as a man are not about winning her attraction and affections back dude. You’ve completely missed the point, which is that you need to do this for you, not for her. 

You need to decide what you want (and what you will, and will not accept) from yourself, your marriage and your life. 
Yes, you need to build yourself into the man that you want to be, high-value man that is attractive to women, a man with options (and it’s more than just physical). 
But you’re not doing it for her, you need to do it for you. And if in the process, your wife comes around, great. But if not, you’ll have more options and you can move on. The stay plan is the same as the go plan. But if you have no go plan, this is all pointless.

If you’re not willing to leave no matter how bad your sex life is, then it’s all just an illusion, and she will see through it. Just go ahead and neuter yourself now.


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## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Simplename said:


> She couldn’t cheat even if she wanted to. She doesn’t drive so I am her only means of transportation. I also work from home so we are basically never apart


She only needs 15 minutes out of your sight to cheat.
Unless you're living on an isolated farm with nobody else living within 5Km.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Just know that distracting yourself from a low-sex marriage is not likely to be received well by her. Even though (or especially because) she doesn't want you, she values something (financial support, companionship) from the marriage that she values or she wouldn't be there. Distracting yourself / being less-present will cut back on what she DOES value.

And, she'll get upset over you for it. In her mind you're getting all the sex that is fair / deserved in this marriage; she's already justified the lack of it somehow - she's too tired, she doesn't like it, you're not a good husband in her eyes, etc. If you pull back, you'll be the bad guy for letting sex put distance between you and a good wife / partner. 

I say this from personal experience: you're better off hitting this issue head-on now. Own your needs, tell her that you need better, explain that you want to work with her to strike a better balance between your differing drives, and note that there will be consequences to the relationship if she doesn't work with you on this. The consequence will be the distracting / distancing you mentioned; if she won't help meet your needs, then you'll meet them as best you can, which will inevitably take energy and resources away from her.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I haven't had sex for 5 years this month - been through all the hoops (excuses). I had a bit of "activity" with a third party some years back but it was..um..strange for both of us. Anyhoo, my focus is being there for kids and keeping employed during this protracted lock down. Still, I think about sex every day, but even more than that; just to be desired. I gave up trying to win her over or back or whatever. She's not interested but I'm not blaming her. Sharing the same house works for a number of reasons other than intimacy. If I was you, younger like you, I'd bale out. Start over.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

One aspect about "starting over" is identifying what got you to this spot in the first place. Poor judgement picking a mate? Prospective mate guilty of false advertising? Domestication quenched the fire in your spouse? Intervention by third party plowing your field? 

I know friends and family who end up in the identical situation 2-5 years after they "started over". In a few cases rinse and repeat 3-4 times.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> One aspect about "starting over" is identifying what got you to this spot in the first place. Poor judgement picking a mate? Prospective mate guilty of false advertising? Domestication quenched the fire in your spouse? Intervention by third party plowing your field?
> 
> I know friends and family who end up in the identical situation 2-5 years after they "started over". In a few cases rinse and repeat 3-4 times.


that is because they never sit down, evaluate the situation, and start casting their fishing line in new ponds.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Simplename said:


> No, I still feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I have “the talk” yet again, I will come across as beta weak unmanly and set myself back even further … or don’t have “the talk” and quietly suffer indefinitely hoping that it eventually turns around for the better.
> 
> I know many of you don’t understand, but in all other ways I am extremely happy. She’s a great partner, a great friend, a great mom, I have fun with her, I don’t want to leave because I am fulfilled in so many other ways than in the bedroom.
> 
> I was just hoping that maybe there were tricks and tips for helping me handle my dissatisfaction long enough for the 180 to start working. But it appears that a few people think the 180 won’t work in my case, which is quite discouraging.


This post. This post right here sums up exactly why you are in the situation in which you find yourself.

There are other options.

But...

They will require intestinal fortitude from you, along with a willingness to make her uncomfortable.

I don't see either of those from you.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> that is because they never sit down, evaluate the situation, and start casting their fishing line in new ponds.


That is a problem, but it's also true people often change behavior as they age - personal wants and needs, family situations, and such. 

For example - my cousin confided she's tired of working, wants to quit and let her husband support them. They're both close to 60 and he works long hours at a physically demanding job. Through no fault of his, she may choose to prioritize herself over their joint best interests.

That's screwing someone over, TBH. The only sure way to not have these problems is to speak up early, know you insist on having your opinion count, and be ready to walk away.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

DTO said:


> That is a problem, but it's also true that people often change behavior as they age. Personal wants and needs, family situations, and such. One example - my cousin recently told me she's tired of working, wants to quit and let her husband support them. They're both close to 60 and he works long hours at a tough job. Nothing he said or did - she just chooses to prioritize herself over their joint best interest.
> 
> The only sure way to not have these problems is to speak up early and be ready to walk away.


Absolutely.
i am WAY more open to other peoples views than i used to be, or maybe a better way to say it is i am much more tolerant of their views, without needed to challenge them now in my old age.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I believe the OP has left the building ...


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Simplename said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been with my wife almost 20 years. She's my true love, I love her so much. She's my favorite person in the world. I think she's attractive, smart, fun, funny and a great person to be with. Our kids are in elementary school, so thank god there are no more diapers in our life.
> 
> ...


Isn't it funny (not) how these women become asexual, once they get married and have children? This is all to common. Do you know how they get out of being asexual? Divorce and wanting to not be alone for the rest of their lives. This means, the 1st man they find and like, they will pretend they desire sex all the time, all to get married again and do it all over again.....


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Simplename said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been with my wife almost 20 years. She's my true love, I love her so much. She's my favorite person in the world. I think she's attractive, smart, fun, funny and a great person to be with. Our kids are in elementary school, so thank god there are no more diapers in our life.
> 
> ...


Growing up poor my career and making money is more important for me and when I'm busy my SM never enters my mind


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I could have written the majority of what the OP wrote. I've been working on myself for the last month or so to get into better shape, etc and I'm trying to get in the mindset of not caring what my wife thinks or if she thinks I will leave. The sex frequency hasn't gone up yet and neither have the stipulations she sets on sex (no oral, very little touching of me, same position, no showers together, can't have sex two days in a row, etc) but I'm at the point of not caring any more. I do find other women attractive and am hoping maybe that one day other women will find me attractive so that my wife will see that I'm wanted by other women as well. If my wife ever decided to leave me because I stopped putting her on a pedestal, so be it.

To the OP; please get in the mindset of taking care of yourself first and get it in your head that if your wife leaves you because you stopped being a doormat, it's okay. You are worth taking care of you.


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