# But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship (satire)



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Beware the dreaded "Friend Zone". 




But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them | The Onion - America's Finest News Source



> *But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them*
> 
> I really like you. I do. You're so nice, and sweet, and you listen to all my problems and respond with the appropriate compliments. But, well, I don't really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don't you think?
> I knew you would understand. You always do.
> ...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

That is friggin' beautiful ... and what makes it both funny and sad, is it's true.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Sounds just like the relationship I had with a friends sister, way back. She would constantly moan and groan about how all men were such pigs, except for me, of course, and bawling about how she could never find a decent guy, and I'm like "HELLO!!! I'm right here!!" Then, of course, get the old familiar speech about how wonderful and kind I was... and all you "nice guys" know how that one ends!
Then I got married, and my friend was there, and I wanted the sister to be there, too, but he said that she had "commitments".
Turns out the commitment was in front of the TV watching Sex and the City with a gallon of ice cream-and she stayed that way for three days!
Later on, some years later, I was talking with their mother, and asked how the sister was doing, and she said, only half jokingly, "Why, she never forgave you for getting married to someone else!" I'm not one to gloat, but I sure had a smile on my face for a week after that!!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

And don't think being married negates the risk of the "friend zone".


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

> But, well, I don't really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don't you think?


Wow, so you are friends with women you don't actually like or want to be friends with so you can get laid? I mean... if you are getting "nothing you want" it really sounds like it.


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## notsocool (Jul 4, 2010)

Have always been a little dubious of marriages where one or both parties swear they are best friends. With one couple I know, it is almost used as a justification for the lack of sex in their marriage.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

F-102 said:


> Sounds just like the relationship I had with a friends sister, way back. She would constantly moan and groan about how all men were such pigs, except for me, of course, and bawling about how she could never find a decent guy, and I'm like "HELLO!!! I'm right here!!" Then, of course, get the old familiar speech about how wonderful and kind I was... and all you "nice guys" know how that one ends!
> Then I got married, and my friend was there, and I wanted the sister to be there, too, but he said that she had "commitments".
> Turns out the commitment was in front of the TV watching Sex and the City with a gallon of ice cream-and she stayed that way for three days!
> Later on, some years later, I was talking with their mother, and asked how the sister was doing, and she said, only half jokingly, "Why, she never forgave you for getting married to someone else!" I'm not one to gloat, but I sure had a smile on my face for a week after that!!!


Good story, and you should believe nice guys and recovering nice guys can relate!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Conrad said:


> And don't think being married negates the risk of the "friend zone".


Exactly what I agree with by posting this article!

These relationship between men and women, the good man is needing to realize the consequences of trying to mirror and empathize with how he may THINK a woman wants to see him.

A woman, she is not looking for her man to be merely a mirror of herself.

She is looking for her man to be the compliment to herself, the things she is needing to receive from him for her selfish desires, and the things she is needing to give him to satisfy his selfish desires.

Do not give without showing the mettle that you deserve to be receiving something. 

To give your attention to a woman, is to be having the confidence and boldness to express as well what she can be giving you in return.

A women who sees a man that is merely a giver, who gives without having the self confidence or self respect to boldly express what he desires in return, to such a man a woman simply will not respect, nor will she be on fire sexually for such a man.

All good men, married, struggling, divorcing, dating, however concerning how you relate to a woman, avoid the friend zone!

Avoid it!


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## AWife (Sep 25, 2010)

Sorry, I'm a woman who crashed your party. Please allow me admittance into the man cave. 

That article is funny. I guess you guys need to get the word out that trying to be a woman's friend first just doesn't work. lol I could never imagine being as heartless as this woman tho. I wouldn't be friends with a man if I new he wanted more and I couldn't give it. It's not fair. For me, telling a man that you don't want to ruin the friendship always meant I didn't see him that way for whatever reason. He wasn't my type. He wasn't attractive to me. Whatever. I was trying not to hurt his feelings. I never remained close friends with a man after that.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Wow, so you are friends with women you don't actually like or want to be friends with so you can get laid? I mean... if you are getting "nothing you want" it really sounds like it.



A good lesson here, for women as well.

Do not be naive with men friends. 

A man, he will not relate to a woman as he would with another man.

Between men, who are good friends and who know and trust each other, when the other has the others back, this is one thing, expectations are little to nothing between them, and in this calm they simply can be.

Between a man and a woman, on the surface, these "just friends" there may appear this calm, but be sure, the "just friends" man is feeling inside him tension to be seen as a man by this woman, tension to compete with some other man in this woman's life, and the attention he is receiving from his woman, sexual flattery and satisfaction, even if just the spark of it. 

Be careful as from the smallest sparks come the roaring fires!

This "just friends" woman is as well flattered by the attention and feels flattered as a woman, is receiving emotional fulfillment from this "just friends" man's attention. 

So as well if any woman is receiving emotional fulfilment by some "just friends" man who is not her husband, this is like stacking dry kindling around a candle and acting confident that no great fire will break out.

Such as these "just friends" ideas between men and women.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I have goose bumps now if I receive private sexual messages from so called male friends(None from TAM, I am very happy) . I don't want to be rude so I just ignore. Be deep down in my heart I want those men to respect me. I can be friends, but only friends, encourage each other and build up each other, as soon as I see something uncomfortable, I get bothered, he is losing me as a friend.

I want to keep my heart pure for my husband!!!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

notsocool said:


> Have always been a little dubious of marriages where one or both parties swear they are best friends. With one couple I know, it is almost used as a justification for the lack of sex in their marriage.



This is an interesting point.

First, I agree, if there is no sex, we as humans will try to rationalize and justify that which is not right, especially if we lack either the wisdom or the means to be able to fix what needs fixing.

Particularly if you are privy to these rationalizations, as if the couple is trying to justify themselves together by seeking approval of those outside the relationship.

What strikes me as strange however, that in my own relationship without much thinking I would consider my woman to be of my closests friends, even my best friend by most points of view.

Particularly if one considers friendships to include private and intimate details, then of course no one else would compare to my woman in that regard.

But this is only in the context of after sexual desires are met, for until these are met, and honestly, they are paramount to me. 

Until they are met, there will be tension. 

Be sure this tension is simply what myself and anyone else would call "sexual attraction", it is the friction that lights the fire between us, and any man or woman for that matter.

So in this way, I am thinking to myself, how can I say "best friend" when my relationship to my woman is not expecting nothing, but the reality is, it is expecting everything? :scratchhead:

Thank you for sharing this, now I have something to ponder.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

AWife said:


> Sorry, I'm a woman who crashed your party. Please allow me admittance into the man cave.


Women, in my threads you are always welcome.

Enter at your risk however. 



> That article is funny. I guess you guys need to get the word out that trying to be a woman's friend first just doesn't work. lol


I find myself beating several drums on this forum.

The "nice guy" and the nice guy's shadow, the "friend zone", are two of these drums.  



> I could never imagine being as heartless as this woman tho.


Heartless? Perish that thought!

This woman is far far far from heartless. 

A heartless woman would not be this honest with a man, her brutal honesty is a gift!




> I wouldn't be friends with a man if I new he wanted more and I couldn't give it.


You are only friends with gay men I see.



> It's not fair.


It's not fair, but it's life.

Therefore to ease this pain and sorrow, we take the time to laugh at this pain and sorrow from time to time, in the hope that we learn and grow and become stronger and wiser.

That is the hope and point of this thread.  



> For me, telling a man that you don't want to ruin the friendship always meant I didn't see him that way for whatever reason.


This "whatever reason", off chance the reason was no sexual attraction?



> He wasn't my type.


No sexual attraction?



> He wasn't attractive to me.


Definitely no sexual attraction!



> Whatever.


"Whatever" meaning no sexual attraction? 



> I was trying not to hurt his feelings.


Nice guy, meet the nice girl.  

Good men reading this, take that one to the bank!

Do not mistake a women's polite consideration for your feelings, or her manners or proper upbringing cloud the issue on whether there is sexual attraction or not.




> I never remained close friends with a man after that.


And why the nice guy is hesitating to reveal his feelings, because the fantasy of sexual attraction is easier to swallow the the harsh reality of the truth.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! 

Every contribution from a woman on these issues, is it's weight in gold to help the good men here to move forward in truth and understand of these things.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> I have goose bumps now if I receive private sexual messages from so called male friends(None from TAM, I am very happy) .


It is hard lesson sometimes to see that the "just friends" man is not looking to be just friends.



> I don't want to be rude so I just ignore.


This is a good way.



> Be deep down in my heart I want those men to respect me.


Deep down you are seeking an emotional fulfillment, exactly.

And deep down, these "just friends" men are seeking a sexual fulfillment, exactly in the same way.

Men and women, we are not always so different.

And not always so wildly unpredictable.  



> I can be friends, but only friends, encourage each other and build up each other, as soon as I see something uncomfortable, I get bothered, he is losing me as a friend.
> 
> I want to keep my heart pure for my husband!!!


To seek what you desire from your husband, and for him to seek these from you, this is for the happy marriage.

To seek these elsewhere, or worse, to seek without even knowing there is seeking going on, this is opening the door wide for trouble and rolling out the red carpet even! 

Greenpearl, thank you for sharing.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> It is hard lesson sometimes to see that the "just friends" man is not looking to be just friends.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! 

My husband is my soul mate. We share everything together. I long for friends, but I know clearly what lies between a man and a woman now. I got myself involved in an unpleasant situation for about two weeks by talking to men on a Chinese forum, at that time, I didn't know much, I was overwhelmed by the attention I got from those men, but they didn't just want to be friends, they wanted more, I was stupid to believe that men and women can be friends. Now I think about all this, it is actually an insult to me. I like compliments from men, I like it when men think I am smart and I am being a good wife to my husband, I love it if they speak to me in a respectful way. I know by the way I talk about sex, gets men think a lot, but what I am sharing is our sweet sex life between my husband and me. It doesn't mean I want any men to talk to me disrespectfully. Chinese men don't respect women in this way, it is disheartening to know. I enjoy TAM a lot here because I don't get bothered by any unpleasant messages.

My husband understands that I need friends, he was very upset the day he found out what was going on on that Chinese forum. But he held me tightly and let me cry. He blocked that website and he shut down my email account. I didn't say anything. He asked me to find a different forum to go to, that's why I found TAM.

I respect people here on TAM. 

I enjoy coming here regularly and see all of you trying hard to help people. 

In my real life, my husband is my world, I get a lot of satisfaction from him. I know I lack friends, but it isn't a big deal. 

Being able to go to forums has expanded my world, it is enough for me not to feel that my world is so small.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> I have goose bumps now if I receive private sexual messages from so called male friends(None from TAM, I am very happy) . I don't want to be rude so I just ignore. Be deep down in my heart I want those men to respect me. I can be friends, but only friends, encourage each other and build up each other, as soon as I see something uncomfortable, I get bothered, he is losing me as a friend.
> 
> I want to keep my heart pure for my husband!!!


I'm pretty much the same as you in this situation. I'll make male friends, but if their friendship turns sexual in any way (it could even mean the way they look at me, then it's done, out of respect for my husband. 



BigBadWolf said:


> What strikes me as strange however, that in my own relationship without much thinking I would consider my woman to be of my closests friends, even my best friend by most points of view.
> Particularly if one considers friendships to include private and intimate details, then of course no one else would compare to my woman in that regard.


The best friend is the one that stood by your side through good and bad, listened when you had troubles and you could trust with your life. That's the way i see it. So, from this point of view, our spouses who are the most important people in our lives, can be considered our best friends. My husband used to be anyway and i'm hoping he'll become that again. 

People in sexless relationships who claim they are best friends...don't necessarily rationalize the lack of sex. They just move on to the best thing they have in that relationship. It's like "hey, sex is not great, but at least we're best friends".The know sex is bad, they would probably leave, but they can't, and they realize it's because that person is extremely important to them on another level. 

At least that's the way i see things. 


As for women and their friends, i guess, how some men can separate sex and love, most women can separate sex and friendship. I best get along with men. I'm deeply disturbed and upset when those friends are sexually attracted to me, though eventually i'll realize that maybe that's just the way things go for a guy.

I do have gains out of male friendships. I respect the male mind, find it quite powerful and i want to be able to measure up in terms of intellect with them. So in a way, if you wish, it's just like a competition two other men would have. I sit around, learn from them, figure out how to develop my own mind, think strategically, come up with better solutions for problems, skills that i can't really learn from most women who don't seem to be interested in the matter. 

And at the end of the day, yes, i'd like them to respect me for my mind instead of for my overall appearance. As long as i'm not dressed in an attractive way, this works decently(that's why for years i was the only odd woman who dressed down at work and started applying make-up and dressing sexy when she got home...for my guy). But it might be a poor compromise to make and i might be better off giving the idea of friendships with males altogether. I don't really know.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> A good lesson here, for women as well.
> 
> Do not be naive with men friends.
> 
> ...


You live in a world that is absolutely nothing like mine. I am glad I don't live in your world. Men are jerks in your world.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

When "in need" of a friend for support in a crisis I reckon we should look first to our life's partner for that support. If that support is not forthcoming then that is an indication of a massive chasm in the marriage. The one in need of support is being failed massively by their life’s partner.

Bob


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## notsocool (Jul 4, 2010)

Not sure if I'm on the right track with this or not..A spouse goes beyond best friend status, both in expectations and rewards.

To call or be called best friend in a marriage, is on one hand complimentary, but on the other can be limiting.

Like parents who become their childrens "best friends", well that's great, but ultimately you need to parent your kids as well and those who dont, pay a price.

Healthy mix of spouse who is also best friend, rather than best friend who is your spouse, perhaps...?


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## AWife (Sep 25, 2010)

You are only friends with gay men I see.

Actually no - I work in a male dominated profession. I have a lot of male friends. I have 2 rules that I'm very clear about tho. #1 I am happily married. Period. lol #2 If something should ever happen with rule 1, I never date anyone I work with. It would be too wierd. 

I am not unattractive. I do get "hit on" but not by those who know me and those I would call my friends. Now if they have any secret feelings or desires I wouldn't know. I hope not... I hate to think that no man could ever be interested in a friendship with me while using his big head instead of his lil one! lol


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Surely marriage is sexual desire for one another and friendship combined? Which comes first, the desire or the friendship? Does that matter at all? As long as they’re both there.

If there's sexual desire without friendship then surely that's just "using" the other person. If it's friendship without sexual desire then that's a pretty sad marriage, to me at least.

But can our spouse be all we need in a friendship? I actually doubt that. Very much like just having one friend in life. Surely we need multiple friends in our lives, as do they.

But I think our spouse should be our one and only special friend, the person in our life who can utterly depend on us and us on them. Isn’t that what being life partners is all about?

Bob


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My take is a little different.

A guy who is 'content' being relegated as a BFF (best friend forever) _usually isn't_ going to have the [email protected] to challenge that status, because he'd be too afraid of being rejected and losing her completely. _That_ guy is, and will always be harmless.

The woman I'm seeing now has one of these male friends. He has been her friend for over a decade. I'm new to the scene. She gushed about what a great guy he is, but he consistently chooses bad partners. I asked her point blank, "So why haven't the two of you ever hooked up, or did you try dating? You paint a pretty flattering picture of him."
She couldn't imagine herself with him. Following my question were the not so flattering reasons why. 
-He tries too hard.
-He's overweight.
-His opinion of himself isn't in line with reality.
-He isn't very consistent. As a friend yes, based on his relationship history, no.
-He seems neither personally, nor financially 'settled'.

Where my lady-friend is concerned, this guy is firmly and forever entrenched in the 'friend zone'.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> My take is a little different.
> 
> A guy who is 'content' being relegated as BFF's (best friends forever) _usually isn't_ going to have the [email protected] to challenge that status, because he'd be too afraid of being rejected and losing her completely. _That_ guy is, and will always be harmless.
> 
> ...


Isn't that it just about it Dejo? A good friend but not good "husband material". There is a big difference obviously. This is more especially so if the woman is looking to have children, very much more so.

But if my wife had ever had a friend, male or female who was more of a friend to her than I was then I would have considered myself a failure as a husband. And likewise my wife as a failure as a friend to me. My wife failed me a few times in the friendship stakes but I was more of a friend than that not to get through it.

Bob


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

AFEH said:


> Isn't that it just about it Dejo? A good friend but not good "husband material". There is a big difference obviously. This is more especially so if the woman is looking to have children, very much more so.
> 
> But if my wife had ever had a friend, male or female who was more of a friend to her than I was then I would have considered myself a failure as a husband. And likewise my wife as a failure as a friend to me. My wife failed me a few times in the friendship stakes but I was more of a friend than that not to get through it.
> 
> Bob


Bob, I agree, but for me personally, I'm back on that journey. I'm not at the destination. And quite honestly, I got sniped twice in my history for believing 'he's just a friend'. Not falling for that one again without doing my due diligence, or challenging the assertion.
Given that, I'm still not naive enough to think that a woman goes looking for a new 'friend' unless as you point out, something is already missing.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i think the woman in the original story is just begging that guy to throw her down on the bed and ravage her, just my humble opinion


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> You live in a world that is absolutely nothing like mine. I am glad I don't live in your world. Men are jerks in your world.


A jerk maybe.

But a jerk, he is not worried about the friend zone!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

AWife said:


> You are only friends with gay men I see.
> 
> Actually no - I work in a male dominated profession. I have a lot of male friends. I have 2 rules that I'm very clear about tho. #1 I am happily married. Period. lol #2 If something should ever happen with rule 1, I never date anyone I work with. It would be too wierd.
> 
> I am not unattractive. I do get "hit on" but not by those who know me and those I would call my friends. Now if they have any secret feelings or desires I wouldn't know. I hope not... I hate to think that no man could ever be interested in a friendship with me while using his big head instead of his lil one! lol


This is an excellent point.

A woman, for her to be friends with a man, and like SimplyAmorous as well, she is needing to have hard fast boundries.

So this is say, a woman is needing to not be naive about such things.

Okay, I get that.

But are we really saying, it is not a friendship but a sexual and/or emotional relationship that is closely monitored and defined, to prevent it to eventually include sex?


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

AFEH said:


> Surely marriage is sexual desire for one another and friendship combined? Which comes first, the desire or the friendship? Does that matter at all? As long as they’re both there.
> 
> If there's sexual desire without friendship then surely that's just "using" the other person. If it's friendship without sexual desire then that's a pretty sad marriage, to me at least.
> 
> ...


Very well put! 

Between my wife and myself, I have no other relationship, however defined as friendship or something else, that is the equivalent in intimacy or depth. 

This is what I am desiring and what I would expect between a man and a woman in a blissful sexual relationship.

My friends, I only have "friends" that are men.

I have many, many aquaintences that are female, but I do not pursue them as friends, I do not refer them as my friends, and I do nothing to pretend that they are my friends.

And no surprise, I have found that I have many opportunites to have sexual relationships with these female aquaintences, both coworkers (never) and in my social circles, married and single.

Over time I have come to the conclusion that the more I deliberately make myself aloof and unavailable to them (not seeking out their approval or showering with compliments, removing myself from idle small talk and chitchat, simply walking away if/when the subject of boyfriend/husband comes up, etc), the more I remove myself, the more there is some active effort on their part to seek out my attention. 

The less I am interested, the more the desire for my interest ratchets up.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Deejo said:


> My take is a little different.
> 
> A guy who is 'content' being relegated as BFF's (best friends forever) _usually isn't_ going to have the [email protected] to challenge that status, because he'd be too afraid of being rejected and losing her completely. _That_ guy is, and will always be harmless.


Exactly!

Good men, if you have never been called arrogant, or a jerk, then maybe it is time to think about why not? 



> The woman I'm seeing now has one of these male friends. He has been her friend for over a decade. I'm new to the scene. She gushed about what a great guy he is, but he consistently chooses bad partners. I asked her point blank, "So why haven't the two of you ever hooked up, or did you try dating? You paint a pretty flattering picture of him."
> She couldn't imagine herself with him. Following my question were the not so flattering reasons why.
> -He tries too hard.
> -He's overweight.
> ...


She is sparing his feelings.

Again, it goes back to honesty.

A woman, she is raised to be subtle and polite, and no more so that in her words and speech. 

Whether this is more nature or nurture, this is beside the point, that subtleness and politeness, these are by definition opposing honest communication.

From a woman, her honesty is her actions and behavior.

All good men reading this, you will do well when you understand this!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Bob, I agree, but for me personally, I'm back on that journey. I'm not at the destination. And quite honestly, I got sniped twice in my history for believing 'he's just a friend'. Not falling for that one again without doing my due diligence, or challenging the assertion.


A hard lesson.

Thank you for sharing it for the benefit of all good men reading this.




> Given that, I'm still not naive enough to think that a woman goes looking for a new 'friend' unless as you point out, something is already missing.


The woman, she is craving emotional and sexual attention. 

To assume her cravings, however different or similar than a man's, that they would be less than a man's, this is a mistake!

The good man makes sure he provides what is his responsibility, and he prevents needless temptation, which is also his responsibilty.

His jealousy is the gauge for this.

Do not listen to any political correct or modern chastisment against a man's jealousy.

Simply ignore such talk.

If she is needing to satisfy her cravings elsewhere, for whatever reason and even if even the smallest bit, then expect the "you don't trust me" or the "you're too controlling" talk. 

A woman, when she is emotoinally and sexually connected to her man, she is loving his jealousy and loving the attention from which his jealousy flows.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> i think the woman in the original story is just begging that guy to throw her down on the bed and ravage her, just my humble opinion


Begging to be thrown down and ravaged? Probably.

By that guy? Not so sure. 


A woman, with the man who lights her fire, the sky is the limit to what she would do with and for such a man.

With the man that is the "nice guy", it would mostly make her skin crawl with disgust.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> Begging to be thrown down and ravaged? Probably.
> 
> By that guy? Not so sure.
> 
> ...



yes, but if he would flick the switch and become what she is really asking for, might thngs change?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> yes, but if he would flick the switch and become what she is really asking for, might thngs change?


Not likely. Certainly not immediately. It's a dynamic shift, and importantly, a power shift; one that the woman isn't going to appreciate.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> Begging to be thrown down and ravaged? Probably.


Am I the only one who is appalled by the attitude that a woman wants to be raped to somehow fix her attitude?

Anyone seen The Accused lately?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Am I the only one who is appalled by the attitude that a woman wants to be raped to somehow fix her attitude?
> 
> Anyone seen The Accused lately?


Yes, you are. You're projecting. Nobody said anything about rape.
Nobody here advocates violence. Nobody.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Yes, you are. You're projecting. Nobody said anything about rape.
> Nobody here advocates violence. Nobody.


"Begging to be thrown down and ravaged? Probably."

"No" means begging to be thrown down and ravaged. Yah I think someone has.

I hate to be a big fat meanie. But if that is the 'tude from some of you guys, it comes as no surprise to me that you are having marital difficulties. Just sayin'.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> Begging to be thrown down and ravaged? Probably.
> 
> By that guy? Not so sure.
> 
> ...


Fixing your quote. Try reading it again. And thanks for your input about my marriage.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't understand why some people view rough and erotic sex inappropriate. Maybe they don't have it. They don't know how erotic it is. 

Are some women that fragile? They argue with men like a fire ball, but they can't let their men fxxx them hard.........

Erotic sex can be very exciting if the husband is doing it the loving way. 

I love it because it shows that my man is wild about me!!! 

Don't women want their men to lust after them?

How can people call rough sex between a loving husband and a loving wife rape? The wife enjoys it tremendously!!!!!!

If the wife enjoys and loves it, then it is not violence, it is not rape, it is love!!!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Am I the only one who is appalled by the attitude that a woman wants to be raped to somehow fix her attitude?
> 
> Anyone seen The Accused lately?


Please explain where was rape mentioned, so that we may be appalled together.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Greenpearl,

Some women like to be bullies. 

Why some women are like this, to me honestly it makes little difference.

I have seen enough with my own eyes to understand what works, and what is make believe. 

And Greenpearl, I really appreciate how well you said what you said, as it would be very good for everyone on this forum to read and understand! 




greenpearl said:


> I don't understand why some people view rough and erotic sex inappropriate. Maybe they don't have it. They don't know how erotic it is.
> 
> Are some women that fragile? They argue with men like a fire ball, but they can't let their men fxxx them hard.........
> 
> ...


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Am I the only one who is appalled by the attitude that a woman wants to be raped to somehow fix her attitude?
> 
> Anyone seen The Accused lately?


The quote starts with "begging to". This indicates, from the start, that the woman probably wants it. Some women like to be dominated because it's erotic. You've probably heard women say they'd love their men to "rip their clothes off and throw them in bed". That's probably the kind of attitude that's being talked about here and definitely not rape. Rape is when the woman doesn't want the man or sex. Aggressive sex, on the other hand, is quite ok and some women love it. 

Why do women like to be dominated? Just look around you. Men are constructed to be bigger, stronger. The bigger and stronger a male, the more most women are attracted to him. Assuming the woman thinks this way, and she wants to be aroused during sex as well, the guy has to carry on with his "bigger, stronger, more dominant" kind of behavior. That's just my view on things though. I've personally never been able to feel that "lusty" feeling for the quiet, safe, bringing me flowers, lighting candles and petting me gently kinda guy.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

PerfectSpecimanofManhood

(Okay, it's getting near Halloween so maybe it's okay to be somewhat offbeat)


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

yeah, i certainly wasnt referring to rape, jeez.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I don't understand why some people view rough and erotic sex inappropriate. Maybe they don't have it. They don't know how erotic it is.


Are you talking to my post? I love rough sex. I may have mis-attributed the quote, but what I read was a response to a woman's No I don't want to date you as "begging to be ravaged." Manly men, doing manly things! What a load.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> yeah, i certainly wasnt referring to rape, jeez.


 Originally Posted by okeydokie View Post
i think the woman in the original story is just begging that guy to throw her down on the bed and ravage her, just my humble opinion

My recollection of the original story, the one to which I think you refer, is that the woman was telling a man that she did not want to become romantically or sexually involved with him.

So if you have the attitude that this means she is begging for someone to ravage her? Well on the one hand, if you never acted on such an absurd attitude, the worst you could be guilty of is being an extreme a-hole. If you acted on that idea? Yah I would call that rape.

The one thing I cannot fathom from this thread is why ANYONE, male or female, would WANT to date someone who does not want to date them? Aren't you good enough to actually be cherished and desired for yourself?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

VT, Have you ever known a guy that simply wouldn't take that challenging step? The guy who would settle for OK instead of going for great because it may result in conflict or loss? 

The guy that _could_ get the girl but doesn't take that step for fear of rejection. The guy that could have a better, more balanced marriage if he learned how to assert himself at the risk of conflict instead of consistently compromising and capitulating thinking he is doing the 'right' thing?

That is the crux of what we we're talking about. Do you just not see that, or are you simply more content challenging it?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> VT, Have you ever known a guy that simply wouldn't take that challenging step? The guy who would settle for OK instead of going for great because it may result in conflict or loss?
> 
> The guy that _could_ get the girl but doesn't take that step for fear of rejection. The guy that could have a better, more balanced marriage if he learned how to assert himself at the risk of conflict instead of consistently compromising and capitulating thinking he is doing the 'right' thing?


You are making it a gender issue that it isn't. Anyone who is conflict averse is going to have a bad time about solving problems. ANYONE who decides to lay down and take **** is likely to eventually get ****.



> That is the crux of what we we're talking about. Do you just not see that, or are you simply more content challenging it?


I see things differently than you do. What you guys are typing reads way differently to me. I could accuse you of just not seeing as well.

There is room in the world for non-assertive men and assertive women. My husband, while nobody's *****, is not assertive. He just doesn't care enough about details to press too many issues. If faced with a just friend who wasn't interested, he would simply walk away. He has enough confidence not to wallow over some woman.

When it is time to challenge a bill, or press for better price or customer service, he is not the guy you would call. You would tap me for that. 

The guy in the original story is a nice guy. You guys may choose to use that as dirty term. But I love my nice guy. Why would a nice guy try to change himself into someone else to "get" a girl? Don't get me wrong, no one deserves to be a carpet. But nor do they need to be some vision of a "man" or a "woman" as cast by someone else. My advice to the man in that story, go find a woman who cherishes you for who you ARE.

Each *person* is who they are. Our society does no one a service when it perpetuates these gender stereotypes to the distraction of learning about PEOPLE.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> You are making it a gender issue that it isn't. Anyone who is conflict averse is going to have a bad time about solving problems. ANYONE who decides to lay down and take **** is likely to eventually get ****.


Yep. We are making it a gender issue. NOT making it a gender issue muddies the entire message. It is geared towards men. You choose to see it as marginalizing women.



> I see things differently than you do. What you guys are typing reads way differently to me. I could accuse you of just not seeing as well.


 Then it sort of begs the question. What's your point?





> There is room in the world for non-assertive men and assertive women. My husband, while nobody's *****, is not assertive. He just doesn't care enough about details to press too many issues. If faced with a just friend who wasn't interested, he would simply walk away. He has enough confidence not to wallow over some woman.


 You aren't connecting the dots. Change it from guy and girlfriend to husband and wife. If you lost the fundamental attraction to your husband, and chose to stay married, simply seeing him as a roommate, would your non-assertive man, just walk away? Isn't it more likely that he would try to appease you and appeal to you in the hopes you'd have the hots for him again?





> The guy in the original story is a nice guy. You guys may choose to use that as dirty term. But I love my nice guy. Why would a nice guy try to change himself into someone else to "get" a girl? Don't get me wrong, no one deserves to be a carpet. But nor do they need to be some vision of a "man" or a "woman" as cast by someone else. My advice to the man in that story, go find a woman who cherishes you for who you ARE.


Because 'getting the girl' is our raison d'etre, unless the nice guy intends to become a monk.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Yep. We are making it a gender issue. NOT making it a gender issue muddies the entire message. It is geared towards men. You choose to see it as marginalizing women.
> 
> Then it sort of begs the question. What's your point?


I think gender stereotyping is counter productive to almost ALL marital issues.



> Because 'getting the girl' is our raison d'etre, unless the nice guy intends to become a monk.


May my daughter never meet your son.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I think gender stereotyping is counter productive to almost ALL marital issues.
> 
> 
> 
> May my daughter never meet your son.


My son is autistic. You'll get your wish.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> My son is autistic. You'll get your wish.


Oh God. Well how is THAT for my sticking my foot in it. And I was trying to be funny. My sincere apologies.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting youtube video:

YouTube - Why You're In The Friend "Zone" & What You Can Do About It ...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Interesting... when we first met, the missus and I started off as "just friends" for over a year since I was already in a relationship at that time. We were flirting "innocently" from day 1 however, which resulted in a few 'cat-fights', and eventually... "Grand Theft Boyfriend"... which of course being the sweet saintly angel that she is -> the missus denies stealing me from my ex to this day.

The thing is however, despite being attracted to each other, being best friends for over year as the foundation of our relationship proved to be rather beneficial, there were no trust issues at all when we started "dating"... ahem, more like "f--king each other senseless". And she managed to bypass a lot of tests that I normally would have imposed on the ladies I took out.

I would say at least from my experience having a foundation of friendship in a relationship is a good start. At least over a year.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Oh God. Well how is THAT for my sticking my foot in it. And I was trying to be funny. My sincere apologies.


Why be that hateful in the first place?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Why be that hateful in the first place?


You are following me around. You must want me badly.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> You are following me around. You must want me badly.


I generally stay in the "Men's" Clubhouse.


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