# Pointers for the ladies.



## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Hello there, I'm brand new on this site. I've read some of the threads written by men and women alike and i would like to point out a simple fact that has always served me well over the years. This fact is important for both women and men to have in mind, even if the circumstances in which it may come in handy are quite different. 

Golden truth:

Men don't have female friends 

(unless they are completely unattractive)


It's not even original but a lot of you people seem to be forgetting it. Guys don't have female friends at all. What guys have are women they would like to pork and so use "friendship" as a gateway to make something happen. Of course this only applies to heterosexual males.

But let me clarify what i mean by friendship here (lest you ladies go absolutely berserk when you see your hubby/BF talking to an attractive girl). I'm not talking about women men need to talk to socially or due to business. I'm talking about that woman that keeps sending non-work related emails and phone messages all the time and your hubby/bf answers too. 

Oh yes, almost forgot, i'm a man, so this isn't just some feminazi idiotic rant. I'm just being brutally honest. And let me continue being so. Some of you may be bruised by what i'm about to write but consider it tough love.

What makes a man come close to a woman in a platonic way (real platonic, not the fake "i'll do you later" thing)? Her personality? Common interests? Her sense of humor? All of these? Sure, multiple things, theoretically. 

The thing is, I have never seen this happen other than in the situation where the woman is completely unattractive (in which situation she is basically just another "guy"). I've never felt the need to connect to a woman this way and i've never seen this in real life (as opposite to movies where this happens non-stop).


When the woman is attractive there is just one thing that makes a guy approach her. And that is a romantic interest. That is not to say men fall in love with every attractive woman they see. That's simply not the case. I mean romantic in a "let's keep this door open just in case i want to make a move". 

So if you ladies have a hubby/bf that keeps multiple female "friends" (not mistake this for the mandatory acquaintances) around and he devotes much of his time to them be very aware that if she presents herself to him he will probably take it. 

She is not his "friend". She can't do/be nothing better than a male friend. 9/10 times women have different interests of men. Men can't/won't approach certain subjects with women. Men are never genuine with women other than withing a very heavy relationship. Why in hell would you keep a close friend that you can't open up too? As friends go, male friends are vastly superior. The only single red flag reason to keep a female "friend" is to entertain the notion that she may become a lover if things go a certain way. 

Oh! And before the guys with the manginas start professing their true platonic friendships to attractive women, i would say they are either deceiving themselves, cuz "The Nile isn't just a river in Egypt", or they they suffer from a case of sexual identity confusion.

Having said this, i will not say your hubby/bf is definitely cheating with that "friend" of his. What i'm saying is that he is leaving his options open and you should really take the time and effort to check that. And if she makes you that uncomfortable (as she should) then make it clear to him. Push her aside. Don't make it easy on him. 

I know that modernity tells you to loosen up and don't be jealous. But it's a load of crap. Cheating men love it when they are given liberty to go as they please. I know because i'm around guys like that all the time. 

To the gentlemen reading this, you know that guy your wife/gf calls "friend" and is always calling, texting, mailling her about non business crap? Have you read what i wrote? Have you really read it? You're a man, you know how we think don't you? That other guy is not different from you. He has the exact same things on his mind. What are you waiting for? Start acting like a freaking ALPHA MALE. Go Silverback on his ass and your partner if needed. Platonic friendships hardly exist.


Now a special note for american white males.


I'm portuguese, and this makes a big difference i believe, in the ways i was taught to be a man and how i go about conducting my relationship with my partner. Seeing your TV shows, movies, reading this forum... All of this tells me that you've allowed yourselves to be convinced that you are completely helpless regarding relationships and you must somehow provide for your family and don't show a hint of jealousy or sense of ownership in your relation (not real ownership but a figurative one, as your partner is YOUR partner and you are HERS). Apparently women have no problem dictating their needs to you but you're afraid to demand and... well, i'm going to say it, ACT LIKE MEN!!!

Just look at the amount of times in this forum that a guy that suspects foul play on his wife's part, when advised to seek confirmation and confront her about it says something like "she can become mad" or "what if she isn't cheating"...

Well... DUUUHHH... if she isn't cheating then she will get over it and she will be more into you because you've just acted like a dominant male instead of the pussified human with XY chromosomes that you usually are (being this a very plausible explanation for why she is cheating on you). Women don't think like we do. Just look at the world around you! Who gets cheated on? The decided dominant male that poses himself in a confident way or the "sensible" touchy feely type that she knows will take her back and forgive her (blame himself, maybe!!!)?

And dudes, please... Instead of "listening" to what women say they want in a man, look at guys who have great success with women. Are these two men similar? No they are not. The nice guy gets run over and is a backup for when she fails to hook up with the guy she really wanted to be with. Next thing she will be all over another dude on a parking lot or something. 

And yanks, stop apologizing for being male. With a few honorable exceptions you allow women to walk all over you. That partially explains how your media depicts men (what's up with all husbands being presented as goofy lazy idiots whereas the wife calls all the shots?) and even explains half the guys on this web site.

I love women, most beautiful creatures on earth, but i'll be damned if i let one cut my jewels off...


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Anyone who uses the word "feminazi" without irony loses me, and a brief perusal of the rest of your post confirmed that I was right.

Good luck here on TAM.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks for that deep insight lamaga, i'm crying a river already...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Glad you cleared the air on this.

Unfortunately I actually agree with most of what you said.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP,
What about women?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Glad you cleared the air on this.
> 
> Unfortunately I actually agree with most of what you said.


I know i'm not being original, gunpowder was invented a long time ago  but something so simple is apparently very easy to forget. My hope is that some men and women see this and it makes them wake up. They aren't being paranoid, if they are uncomfortable about something they should come out with it. Not wait until the divorce papers are on the mailbox or they have to do paternity tests about the kids (poor kids too).



> OP,
> What about women?


Won't risk it. I am perfectly comfortable with the inner workings of my own gender but i will not presume to know more than i do about them. What i can do is watch their behavior and go from there. Maybe some lady can give her own honest input.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I just wanted to say that I think Port wine is awful, too sweet


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I just wanted to say that I think Port wine is awful, too sweet


So true, unless you get one of the vintages! Also? After you tour the port wine distilleries, sampling at each one, you have to walk over that big high bridge from Vila Nova de Gaia back to Porto -- vertigo city!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lamaga said:


> So true, unless you get one of the vintages! Also? After you tour the port wine distilleries, sampling at each one, you have to walk over that big high bridge from Vila Nova de Gaia back to Porto -- vertigo city!


Alas, I do not drink alcoholic beverages... I suppose I shall have to live vicariously thru you, my dear Lamaga.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I just wanted to say that I think Port wine is awful, too sweet


How was tequilla, dear?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> How was tequilla, dear?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> How was tequilla, dear?


You don't listen to Joe Nichols?
Joe Nichols - Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off - YouTube


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Or, this -- Don't ask her on a straight tequila night!





Edited: Well, I didn't do that right, did I?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Or, this -- Don't ask her on a straight tequila night!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GRRRR. It was verry r8.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Portugal, great, now I will forever associate the place with soccer, blanket statements, bad wine (not all of it), and the marginalization of the entire male side of our species. 

Ohh I almost forgot, the subjugation of female agency too.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Nah, Paladin, don't do that. It's a great place -- although if you speak Brazilian Portuguese, it's kind of a comedy of errors


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

don't forget about imperialism


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> don't forget about imperialism


Huh? Not much of that from Portugal -- I mean, they tried, but c'mon!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

good point


don't forget about failed imperialism


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

One might almost say flaccid imperialism?

*ducks*


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Or, this -- Don't ask her on a straight tequila night!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here ya go Lamaga 
John Anderson - Straight Tequila Night - YouTube


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> I associate Portugual with the yummy malasadas. They're holeless donuts (fried dough rolled in sugar). Some of my H's family came from the Old Country so they eat a lot of malasadas. :smthumbup:


So... donut holes... I usually buy mine at Dunkin Donuts


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

I tend to agree with the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Unfortunately, I agree with men not having women friends. However, I prefer nice guys over the "Alpha male" stereo type you are referring too. Nice guys can be Alpha too!


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> So... donut holes... I usually buy mine at Dunkin Donuts


DD - it's worth the trip!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

So, are we initiating the new guy or what? 

I like what he has to say. I agree with most of it. Wondering if he came from the Don Juan forums?? (I REALLY enjoy that site)! :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Hold on, I need to call my guy friends who absolutely refused to get involved with me romantically (I'm far from ugly, in fact they tell me how hot I am) to fill them in on their feelings. Good grief, guys are friends with me and they know we're not compatible for different reasons and are smart enough to know to keep that boundary there or trashing the friendship forever. I had guy friends as a kid and I still have guy friends. In fact, I'm a Quaker, so I have a lot of friends. People can connect on a spiritual and friendship basis and not pay attention to the biological neon sign that's blinking 'sex' in the back of their minds. You see it, but you ignore it. Like a yellow traffic light. Only instead of running the light before it turns green, you stop before it turns red. Different framework of thinking, humankind in control of its brain. No different than ignoring our biological urge to goof off instead of working, and working instead, sometimes over 8 hours a day :-o Now if someone can manage that, they can manage to keep their private parts in their pants and their hands off of other people's private parts in the name of friendship.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

This man knows the truth. American men have been sold some serious BS in the last 30 years. I know better now and have passed it on to my sons.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> This man knows the truth. American men have been sold some serious BS in the last 30 years. I know better now and have passed it on to my sons.


Yeah, that pesky thing about women being in charge of their own reproductive systems...WTF? And who gave them the right to vote, anyhoo?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Gee, thanks! I feel so enlightened now. I have always confused American media with real American men; so glad you set me straight.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I agree with the OP. most men that I thought I was friends with at some point let me know that they wanted something else. I noticed that a couple of guys that I thought I was pals with had ****blocked someone when we were out in a group.

As far as women who insist upon that friend thing with men, they're just looking for an ego boost, a free drink or a free meal, or as I noticed with my fiance and his (erstwhile) EA, someone to cover the bar tab.

If people want this friend thing, that's great, but they will have to work to make me feel comfortable about it, not vice versa.


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

costa200 said:


> * She can't do/be nothing better than a male friend. 9/10 times women have different interests of men. Men can't/won't approach certain subjects with women.*


I'll keep that in mind tomorrow on my trip to the gun range, as well as this weekend when I'm putting a new transmission seal in my 1978 Trans Am....  None of my male "friends" are remotely interested in such things.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Paladin said:


> Portugal, great, now I will forever associate the place with soccer, blanket statements, bad wine (not all of it), and the marginalization of the entire male side of our species.
> 
> Ohh I almost forgot, the subjugation of female agency too.


What the hell is "soccer", what do you know about wine and what is this "female agency"? 

Marginal what? :scratchhead:

And talking about blanket statements... How's that going for you? :smthumbup:



> Unfortunately, I agree with men not having women friends. However, I prefer nice guys over the "Alpha male" stereo type you are referring too. Nice guys can be Alpha too!


Of course they can. The "nice guy" i refer here is that one kind that doesn't stand his ground. Do not think that every alpha male is this sort of prick that goes around throwing his weight around. Most of the time he is not. It's all about confidence and attitude. 



> Hold on, I need to call my guy friends who absolutely refused to get involved with me romantically (I'm far from ugly, in fact they tell me how hot I am) to fill them in on their feelings.


"involved with me romantically"... I would ask you what do you mean by this. I presume you were looking for some sort of deep relationship. If these guys know you they probably knew this and were not available for that (the reasons can be varied). Do not think that every guy will be available for you at any given time. That's just not so. 

But if you are good looking try making an overt sexual advance on one of those "friends". See if he refuses. Note that i would never advise doing this with people in serious relationships (he may be really into another woman right now and you don't want to mess with that). But if he is a free guy and you're free too just test it out if you dare. No perspective of a "relationship", just pure a pure sexual episode. I'm pretty sure that if you ask around you'll see that 9/10 guys will go for it. The guy that won't will have a very specific reason not too. That said, if that reason goes away (psychological trauma, bad past experiences etc) he will go for it too. 

Please note that a recent survey i've read about says that a man demands a higher level of psychological connection to have dinner with a woman than to get into bed with her. And personally i agree. Being uncommitted to a relationship i would bed every attractive woman i could without problem. But to have some sort of romantic dinner i require a high level of intellectual interest. Intelligent women make themselves more attractive whenever they speak.



> So, are we initiating the new guy or what?


:smthumbup:

I like it when people speak their minds. Even if you guys see my post as some sort of comic relief for the bad life patch you are experiencing (if you've been betrayed) i've done my part, in a small measure. Each person deserves happiness and to find it you need the right partner in life. I feel that some people have such low self esteem that they just accommodate themselves to whatever hell hole of a relationship they've got because they think they can't find something better. I see a lot of that in this place. 

All i can say is that it is not true. There are 6,5 billion people on this planet. Somewhere there is something right for you. Infidelity is, IMO, unforgivable. Just don't settle for a woman or a man that doesn't respect you.

And this respect is not earned when the partner is already cheating. It is done much earlier in the relationship. Don't be scared to put your foot down whenever you feel the need to. If the other face of the relationship doesn't comprehend you and refuses to stop behavior that offends your dignity just cut free and go fishing. 

Because, first and foremost, in romance, you must LOVE YOURSELF. Only then other's are to be considered.


Let me point out that when many young guys think about romance they have this "chivalry" idea of being a knight in a white horse for their damsel. Sacrifice yourself for love, risk you integrity (physical and/or emotional) for your love...

To be blunt, they are suckers... If you want to look into what excites women (psychologically) you look at their type of "porn". That's the romances they read. What do we see in those? Are the male figures in those books the knight type? Or are they something else?

Let me resort to an example everyone must at least have some knowledge of. Do you remember the series "LOST"? If you watched it you see an interesting love triangle between Kate, Jack Shepard and Sawyer. Kate is the stereotypical female, being disputed and remaining indecisive between Jack (the good guy, trustworthy, dependable, all kinds of nice and surgeon to boot) and Sawyer (a low life conman). 

Now, logic would dictate that women should go for Jack, but in reality what we see is that the Sawyer was much more interesting for women. And if you look into their books like i did when i was in my late teens, you may be shocked to see that they fantasize with exactly this type of characters. 

Not to say that women are attracted to criminals or whatever. It's not that. But what all of them have in common is that they behave like they don't give a crap about them. They make women feel that it is they that have to chase them and not the other way around. 

And this is very revealing. This explains why some guys with no visible qualities are so successful with women. And another thing is that certain figures tend to appear very often in this near erotic literature. The guy with an harem of women at his will. This can be a literal harem, where the stereotypical woman gets inserted somehow (women in these books are generally very bland when not downright uninteresting), or it can be figurative harem. Basically women seem to gravitate to men that have other women already available to them. 

You ladies reading this should note that if your man is such a figure then take care that this situation that probably played a part in your attraction to him, works for other women the exact same way. The more women he has orbiting around him the better he looks to other women in a kind of crazy snowball effect.


This also explains an effect that i'm sure many guys felt before that as soon as you show up in public with a woman, other women that perhaps didn't give you the time of day start behaving differently with you. Some, i would even go as far as saying, get off on flirting and hitting on another woman's man. 

Perhaps you ladies have figured out by now that the end line is that your own relationship, by its existence, rather than serving as a deterrent to stop other women from going after your guy, it has the opposite effect. It makes your man more attractive to the eyes of other women.

I've personally experienced this and seen this happen many times. Male friends complaining (half smiling naughty complaints) that as soon as they got a girlfriend they had more offers for relationships and sexual opportunities than ever before. How scary for you ladies is that?

So keep an eye out for that good looking "best friend" of the opposite sex. She probably doesn't do male stuff, isn't more interesting than you (or he would already be over there) and he isn't keeping her around for her platonic friendship. You drop the ball and it's a world of lies. 




> Different framework of thinking, humankind in control of its brain.



I'm sorry, but has a biologist i really must point out the error of that notion. Mankind has never controlled anything above the very basics of societal hierarchic order we see in group primates. If mankind actually controlled their brains this part of the forum WOULD NOT EXIST. People cheat despite all rationality and social conventions because their brain works exactly like every other upper mammalian brain. Reproduce with the best mates available (as the individual unconsciously sees it) even if that means dire consequences in your life. 



> People can connect on a spiritual and friendship basis and not pay attention to the biological neon sign that's blinking 'sex' in the back of their minds.


Put it to the test. Go to one of those friends and flirt with him a bit, then ask him if he would like [insert whatever fun sex act here] and see how long that "spiritual" connection goes. If the guy still refuses then ask him to be honest about the why. The answer will be very interesting to you.


Choosing to temporarily "ignore it" doesn't make it go away. It will manifest itself or not depending on what events make possible. 

It's like gay people choosing to ignore their tendencies and go and have families and whatnot. They didn't stop feeling the urges and attractions they have always felt. They just hide it, and if and when the situation is favorable it all comes back up to the surface. And then their partner catches them with a same sex individual. How quaint is that?



> Yeah, that pesky thing about women being in charge of their own reproductive systems...WTF? And who gave them the right to vote, anyhoo?


Holy canneloni... You seem to be decided into turning this little play of mine into some kind of machist thing. In a thread where i just basically told women that men suck at keeping it in their pants? Nobody remotely indicated something about women rights and their freedom to do as they chose with their bodies. Now do you understand that men also have the same rights that women do?

And that being a woman doesn't mean you can just expect the world to bend over for you? The things i'm talking about here are for both men and women and stating my opinion about how to have a healthy relationship. Don't let the other part step all over you. Be it male or female. It just so happens that i see today more males having problems with this than women. You look at women getting cheated on and the crowd goes "dump him". A guy gets cheated on and the same crowd goes "IF you can't make things work see a MC blah blah"... What the hell? A cheating human is a cheating human. More than likely he/she will do it again and should be ruining another person's life. 



> I'll keep that in mind tomorrow on my trip to the gun range, as well as this weekend when I'm putting a new transmission seal in my 1978 Trans Am.... None of my male "friends" are remotely interested in such things.


What can i say, you're a fun gal... If i say that women have developed mammary glands (boobs in short) then as any blanket statement i may be wrong with those exceptions that don't. That doesn't invalidate the meaning that the overwhelming majority of human females have that trait. How many women do you know that share those hobbies? How many don't? 

You also may be interested in finding out why those male friends are keeping themselves around. Do they consider you "one of the guys"?



> Gee, thanks! I feel so enlightened now. I have always confused American media with real American men; so glad you set me straight.


Really? Alright, have you read at least part of this forum? Have you been around online and actually talked to american men about this same issue and actually listen to what they have to say? Because i have. Many friends over that side of the pond seem to be feeling that they are getting the short stick in all sorts of society related events. All doesn't go too well. 

And if your media is portraying men like that, what does that tell you? Look at how they represented women in the 50s in TV. It's the same thing, only in reverse. Signs of a deeply unequal gender related treatment.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Retracted.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Are you as hot as your countryman:


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Are you as hot as your countryman:


Believe it or not women in my country from what i hear, don't find Mourinho that sexy. He looks like the average joe over here. I could pass him on the street and he would be no different from millions of other faces. Except he is totally the epitome of the alpha male. A born leader, confident and prideful. 

I hear that the english women just went nuts over the guy! Must be the southern european looks that are not common over there. But me, i'm younger than him, and about looks, well, i will not complain.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Since this thread has descended into something else......


Sorry about the match today, Ronaldo should've taken that penalty.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Since this thread has descended into something else......
> 
> 
> Sorry about the match today, Ronaldo should've taken that penalty.


Nah... If he missed the media would be all over him and annoy the hell out of him. Penalties are like that, what are we gonna do


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

I agree with a lot of what the OP has posted, he brought something different to the mix.
Interesting posts & something to ponder, thanks.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

If his straw man would even remotely address actual male disposability, or at least the perception of it in the western world, maybe this thread would have more value than turning Portugal into a giant punching bag.

you asked what soccer was? The only game on the planet more boring than baseball. Nothing quite like watching two teams whos combined worth is billions of dollars end 90 min in nil nil.

Wine? I live in CA, yes I know you are jealous, its ok.

Female agency is what makes women people, not simply cum receptacles, but your biology degree probably makes it hard for you to understand that.

Marginalization, as in being put in the margins, like where I placed you and this entire thread.

And now let me defuse this incendiary post by adding some emoticons

 

There, all better!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

:rofl:

I like this guy! :smthumbup:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Also wanted to mention, regarding your opinions on homosexuals - that some of our closest relatives in the primate world, (notably bonobos and chimps) regularly engage in homosexual and incestuous acts with one another. It's not all that "unnatural" as animals do not have that human need to be different... psychologically speaking...

ETA - Misunderstood... Carry on! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

so how are costa's thoughts that different from those put forth in MMSL? Pretty much the same ideas. 

Thanks costa for the time and opinions. It is a good debate to have no matter what people's views are.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Paladin said:


> If his straw man would even remotely address actual male disposability, or at least the perception of it in the western world, maybe this thread would have more value than turning Portugal into a giant punching bag.
> 
> you asked what soccer was? The only game on the planet more boring than baseball. Nothing quite like watching two teams whos combined worth is billions of dollars end 90 min in nil nil.
> 
> ...


You my friend have issues... Or your have little comprehension skills. Women as "cum receptacles"? Really? What are you on? Do you deny that men basically fantasize about having sex with every attractive women they meet sooner or later? Is that what you're saying? If that's it then my advice can only be for you to investigate the articles done on this subject. 

This makes you feel like i'm saying that women are "cum receptacles"? Why? When a woman just wants to have sex with a man does that mean he is just a sperm hose? 

Why is it that a man can't speak about sexual attraction for the opposite sex without an american mouthing of ludicrous accusations of men treating women like objects? Is sexual attraction not a two way street? If a man desires to have sex with a woman he is treating her like an object and that's wrong, when she does it its a great achievement of the woman's liberation movement (although much of the original members of the movement would be horrified by what passes as that these days). What's up with that double standard? Is it not clear that both men and women desire each other (even with the due emotional/biological differences)? Why do men get cussed for it over there in the US?

Oh and you live on CA... Is that supposed to impress anyone? Just because you try to make cheap imitations of european wines with almost all your vineyards having french, iberian or italian origin, it doesn't make you an authority in the subject. Over this side we have been doing it before that corner of the US even existed and almost all the international awards still say that you're light years behind. And that is ok, but you really shouldn't be posing yourself to be ridicularized like this.

And about portugal becoming a "punching bag"... My country has 8 centuries of history as an identity. There is nothing a on forum on the internet that can even come to harm it in any way. I just mentioned my nationality to say that coming from a different culture is see things differently. Instead what i got was a less than stellar individual who thinks it is cool to insult a whole country because he can't figure out how to write a rebuttal to a few ideas.



> Marginalization, as in being put in the margins, like where I placed you and this entire thread.


Yet you deemed fit to troll it twice already without even demonstrating a single point of intelligence. I'm all up for an exchange of ideas. If you disagree with what i pointed out explain why. Thinking that you are actually capable of forming a coherent text, that is.



> f his straw man would even remotely address actual male disposability, or at least the perception of it in the western world,


Define "western world". This may come as a shock to you, but there is more to the western world than your immediate surroundings. A man in Southern Europe has certain perks than a Northern European doesn't have and vice-versa. There are serious cultural differences. Not to mention that melting pot that is North America. 



> Female agency is what makes women people


I thought women were people because they can be brilliant beings of remarkable emotional finesse without which life would be probably unbearable to live.

Good of you to tell me about this agency. Do they have to sign up somewhere? Or they get automatic membership at birth... 




> Also wanted to mention, regarding your opinions on homosexuals - that some of our closest relatives in the primate world, (notably bonobos and chimps) regularly engage in homosexual and incestuous acts with one another. It's not all that "unnatural" as animals do not have that human need to be different... psychologically speaking...




Say what? That's exactly my idea of it. It's not unnatural in any way. Never said it was. There are literally thousands of documented cases of homosexual behavior in animals.



> so how are costa's thoughts that different from those put forth in MMSL?


Sorry mate, what's this MMSL... Been learning some of these short designations, don't know this one yet.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Yeah, I know - that's why I put "ETA - Misunderstood".

You must have copied my quote before seeing that. I initially thought you were saying that homosexuals were denying their heterosexuality, which is why I posted about the primates. I caught that I had misunderstood, and edited my post to reflect that... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

MMSL - Married Man Sex Life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

costa200 said:


> *That other guy is not different from you. He has the exact same things on his mind*.
> 
> Platonic friendships hardly exist.
> 
> ...


I agree with these points


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> MMSL - Married Man Sex Life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks YinPrincess! 

Got the mix up about the homosexuality bit after i posted :smthumbup:


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

You come here and post in this section of the forum for what reason? To feel superior to people who might be suffering some serious emotional pain? You post a bunch of arrogant drivel, and when you rightfully get called out on it, immediately become defensive and hostile. Obviously you know more about love and women and relationships than anyone else because you are Portuguese. You demand an intellectual debate? That assumes the person on the other end respects you enough to give you that kind of time. You speak of "humor" yet possess none of it. Saying you have a Napoleon complex would be a major understatement. I truly feel bad for the three combined minutes I wasted in here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I agree with much of the rhetoric from the OP as far some Western men. Unfortunately the sample that post on here who are having issues manning up are not a representative sample of "American Men" or Western men for that matter. Also and this is not going to be a popular opinion, some number of those posts are pure fantasy troll posts for the purpose of stirring folks up. Some are just wankers who get off writing cuckold fantasies. But yes I do believe some portion of them are true enough. It is very hard to tell. It is bewildering. I do think there is a trend to emascualte men for some reason. It starts in the schools unfortunately. Many teachers are seeing this and trying to reverse this trend. Many male traits are seen as not being team oriented for example. So they are discouraged by authority and even by drugs. So there is something to what you are saying. I do agree that there is a huge trend towards being a Nice Guy that is counter productive.

Like it or not folks though American men can be some of the most Alpha with positve Beta traits in the freaking world. We pretty much kick @$$. You can argue the politics but American men are often in harms way. I am not disrespecting other Western countries but he referenced American men. A guy from Portugal. LOL. Love you guys.

Portugal -- Been there a few times. Nothing to get too excited about. It beats visiting Cleveland. No offense. People were friendly enough to me. Not a bad place to vist. But not exactly a domimant force on the planet in recent centuries. Just not a very modern society which is fine I guess. 

Now is the OP really from Portugal!? Idunno. That said what is the challenge with being a dominant man in ... Portugal? Its not even Wisconsin.

But yeah OP. Good points. Entertaining as well. Seriously though don't assume that American dude is a mangina. He may be a good guy but don't push him too far. Don't believe all you read here. I agree with you on the friend stuff for sure. It amazes me many women do not seem to understand this.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Good stuff, costa. You did a nice job defending your points and I agree with you on most of it.
However, your recommendation re confronting the cheater seems to ignore how these folks lie. So, some evidence gathering is a good idea, IMO.
You also need to factor in that married guys with kids are often completely f'd over by our courts. So, taking the hard line and divorcing(which I think is the best approach) is scary as hell for men here.
Still, I think it is best to divorce a cheater, always.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> *It is bewildering. I do think there is a trend to emascualte men for some reason. It starts in the schools unfortunately. Many teachers are seeing this and trying to reverse this trend. Many male traits are seen as not being team oriented for example. So they are discouraged by authority and even by drugs. So there is something to what you are saying. I do agree that there is a huge trend towards being a Nice Guy that is counter productive.*


It is bewildering to me as well.
As I was coming of age in the late 80's, I can remember hearing about the "new, sensitive man."
As I've gotten older I've come to realize I need a man to be a man in the truest sense of the word, I don't need Mr. New Age Sensitive Guy, that's what I have girlfriends for.
Seriously, I don't treat my husband like one of my girlfriends.
Hell, my husband is an Infantry Officer, who is right now fighting in a hostile place, living in sh*tty conditions, he's about as manly as they come, do you really think he gives a damn what color I paint the bathroom?
Of course it would be rude not to ask the man's opinion, but I know he doesn't care what color I chose.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

I tend to agree with OP on most points, yes feminism is a good thing politically at least, its good that now women have equal opportunities in most if not all fields but 1000's of years of evolution doesn't care about whats politically correct and whats not

You won't ever see women mooning over a weakling.Ladies won't have panty-melting experiences with doormats no matter what they say to console your bruised ego and yes post feminism, a lot of Nice Guys have been created and will continue to be created.

And the laws of the the US aren't really partial to men even men married to b*tches, but really its the man's fault for not standing up for his righs. Hell, women in the 60's stood up for their rights and won, and we can do that too, god rot the radical feminists. So I think if more men start standing up for themselves and fight the injustices of the divorce court, pretty soon they'll have to amend the laws, won't happen if men are s*it scared and willing to be walked all over fearing the consequences


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

It's starting to change as the older Judges and lawmakers die off. Ironically , in manycases, it is a male judge shafting the dad in a divorce. These a-holes still beleive in chivalry and that nonsense. They think all women are like June Cleaver.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

That and No fault clauses in the US courts I mean really, you're pitting your life savings on your husband/wife not waking up one fine day and deciding Hey I'll just get a divorce and take my half of all the marital assets, and more often than not women initiate divorces so................


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Good stuff, costa. You did a nice job defending your points and I agree with you on most of it.
> However, your recommendation re confronting the cheater seems to ignore how these folks lie. So, some evidence gathering is a good idea, IMO.


I agree with this. In my own situation, if I hadn’t snooped I would have had to accept the lie that “she was just a friend.” From there, I could have dumped my now fiancé and move on. Or I could choose to stay with him, buy the lie that she was just friend and be expected to work around her “because she’s such a great friend.”

In either scenario, my fiancé would be patting himself on the back thinking what a great guy he is by keeping someone he wanted to date on board as “just a friend” at the same time, chastising me either implicitly or explicitly that I am somehow insecure and jealous because I can’t along with her………all the while that he is expecting more out of me (ie, expecting me to turn down dating other men and negotiating my free time with him) while his “great friend” gets to have her own boyfriend and see him only when she feels like that.

Now, though, I know of the texts between them in which she told him to dump me so that they can date again –this after rejecting a kiss from him; and while doing online dating and dating one guy in particular—and he knows that I know…….so he now has to accept that if he had ever tried to introduce us, it probably would not have been a pretty sight ---AND through no fault of my own. 

It’s much easier to stay with someone when you have full knowledge of the situation than when they’re able to create their own story which may be woven to your disadvantage -- and far from the truth.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Paladin said:


> You come here and post in this section of the forum for what reason? To feel superior to people who might be suffering some serious emotional pain?


I feel superior to no one and my objective here is just help people by basically pointing the obvious that many of them seem to be missing right in front of their eyes. I never said i was better. I'm just a different kind of person than the majority of men i see posting here. To be perfectly clear, i'm willing to be 100% honest about what makes me "tic", as a man. How about that? A sincere and honest guy willing to give women (and remembering some men apparently) an insight to the human male mind. Because i find it may be useful for people. Precisely because i saw the pain and had the instinct to try and write something to help people before they come the situation where they need to make one of these "i was cheated on and didn't see it coming, only i actually did...". 

And judging by your own answers i surely touched some strings in YOU, so you better start evaluating why that is and what you intend to do about it for your own sake.



> You post a bunch of arrogant drivel, and when you rightfully get called out on it, immediately become defensive and hostile. Obviously you know more about love and women and relationships than anyone else because you are Portuguese.
> 
> You demand an intellectual debate?


You didn't call me on anything. All YOU did was to play the role of stereotypic american, directing attacks on my country while demonstrating a huge as the moon ignorance about the world outside your hometown. I still don't know what you do not agree with because you seem unable to articulate it. I'm patient and still waiting. And i didn't demand a thing. I asked you to clarify your position. Is that too much to ask? 

I don't claim to be a guru or something. But i do live surrounded by women all day and i'm very observant of their behavior. Plus i wanted to bring something different here and i did point out, for the sake of honesty and disclosure that i'm not an american. As a way to explain why i may see things differently. What i got for it was you... 

Would it make you feel better if i posed as an american? Because that would have been easy. I've been to boards where it takes people years to realize i'm not american and usually it's only because i openly identify myself as a non-american. 



> That assumes the person on the other end respects you enough to give you that kind of time. You speak of "humor" yet possess none of it. Saying you have a Napoleon complex would be a major understatement. I truly feel bad for the three combined minutes I wasted in here.


That's a major difference between you and me. I respect everyone to be able to listen and debate their ideas. You obviously have a different modus operandi. As soon you don't like an idea you resort to silly personal attacks and name calling. Don't even bother to explain what you don't agree with. I'm just glad it's you that have to live with yourself, because it sounds like a real suicide inducing chore . 

Feel free to not waste a single moment more trolling the forum, because so far you have just played the part of the grumpy Muppet we seem to get in every child series, and haven't really been useful in any sort of way for anyone. At least you'll have to concede that i am trying to help, while your just being an intellectual dead weight.



> Also and this is not going to be a popular opinion, some number of those posts are pure fantasy troll posts for the purpose of stirring folks up. Some are just wankers who get off writing cuckold fantasies. But yes I do believe some portion of them are true enough.


Some of these, if fake, have a sort of gritty real feeling to them that is oscar wining script. It may be that there are fakes. But some definitely are not. And yes, this is not, by all means representative of all american males. But they are the slice that need more help perhaps. I see a consistency in all their stories. And in the female stories too. All of them are way too trusting, seem to fear to antagonize the other (many even after having final proof of the cheating) and frankly that riles me up personally. 

I just hate cheaters. It's the lowest of the low. And it goes completely against the respect i was raised in and how i conduct myself in life. I've never cheated on a woman and if i felt like i was going to cheat (emotionally of physically) would end the relationship for the sake of the other person. Respect for my partner. 



> However, your recommendation re confronting the cheater seems to ignore how these folks lie. So, some evidence gathering is a good idea, IMO.
> You also need to factor in that married guys with kids are often completely f'd over by our courts. So, taking the hard line and divorcing(which I think is the best approach) is scary as hell for men here.
> Still, I think it is best to divorce a cheater, always.


I get what you're saying, but take note that my opening post was directed at trying to expose situations before they come to be. In my country we have a saying "A ocasião faz o ladrão" that translates as "opportunity makes the thief". I believe that in relationships it goes the same way. Opportunity makes the cheater. 

If you allow potential rivals to court around your partner and you don't do nothing about it then you're on a risky path. 


Evidently, if cheating is already ongoing within a marriage, then you better have all the legal backing you need to safeguard yourself and your kids. That probably requires proofs of all sorts.



> Now is the OP really from Portugal!? Idunno. That said what is the challenge with being a dominant man in ... Portugal? Its not even Wisconsin.


This made me lol... How hard is to be an alpha male in a country where basically all fathers try to teach their children to be the alpha? 

And why would i lie about my origin? Like you said, we are not exactly a driving force in the world. It obviously doesn't give me more qualifications other than simply being different from you yanks. I even got some useless trolling comments for it. 



> Like it or not folks though American men can be some of the most Alpha with positve Beta traits in the freaking world. We pretty much kick @$$.


Yes, i love you guys. It's just that you as a drive force in the world, and one i admire, are letting us men down. FFS, can you do something about the way your media shows men? Given the contagious effect of your brilliant hollywood movies and TV series, i kinda fear that the world slowly becomes convinced that men are just emotional retards and basically useless in all things except as an ATM machine. 



> Just not a very modern society which is fine I guess.


If "modern" means the examples i'm getting from your media, then i don't want to be "modern". Make no mistake. I see men in my country having the same issues apparently my american friends are facing. But it's a matter of numbers. 

The number of portuguese fellows that allow women to walk all over them is much smaller. For all your social development (hence you being the example for the world) you seem to not be doing this right. It's just my opinion, do as you please with it 



> And the laws of the the US aren't really partial to men even men married to b*tches, but really its the man's fault for not standing up for his righs. Hell, women in the 60's stood up for their rights and won, and we can do that too, god rot the radical feminists. So I think if more men start standing up for themselves and fight the injustices of the divorce court, pretty soon they'll have to amend the laws, won't happen if men are s*it scared and willing to be walked all over fearing the consequences


This... is a total downer for me. How can our societies (because this differential treatment regarding the custody of children is in no way limited to the US) claim to be about equality when a father must basically prove the mother is some sort of monster in order to get a fair chance at getting a decent share in the kid's time in conflictual divorces? All the woman has got to do is be a woman and she gets preferential treatment. That even if she was the one who cheated, initiated divorce and ended the family unity. 

And this is very serious. And is, IMO totally related to the way men are represented in the media. Society seems to think men are uncapable of raising children. That they lack the skills to do it. That only women have the qualifications from birth to handle children. This is hogwash...

I am of the opinion that in a divorce the law must protect the offended part, regardless of gender. If one of the partners destroys the marriage then he or she forfeits custody of the children because, simply put, the family wasn't important enough for that person to stop that individual from ending it.

All things being equal, then the parent with the more conditions (time, money, environment) of raising the children gets them. Gender blind this way. 



> 1000's of years of evolution doesn't care about whats politically correct and whats not


You bet. We are still animals, even if we sometimes like to forget it.




> It is bewildering to me as well.
> As I was coming of age in the late 80's, I can remember hearing about the "new, sensitive man."
> As I've gotten older I've come to realize I need a man to be a man in the truest sense of the word, I don't need Mr. New Age Sensitive Guy, that's what I have girlfriends for.
> Seriously, I don't treat my husband like one of my girlfriends.
> ...


Thank you! You're a woman that gets what a man is. I would send you a kiss, but i don't want infantry gunning down for me 

Yes, another point for the ladies, this time unrelated to infidelity: 

FFS we don't care about the color of the bathroom and the fabrics of the drapes on the windows

We trust you completely in this and 99% of the times we don't care about it. If you do something terribly wrong on those fields (you really have to go out of your way to be wrong) we will be vocal about it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Next time why are you marrying a man who considers you p,an b? I think you will regret it. This female friend will be in your marriage until you finally leave the field of battle beaten down by Yeats of lies and cheating. Get out now, let the have each other and take bets on who will betray first. 

Funny these threads - gross generalizations about women abound. Let see if you can take what you dish out. 

You girls should really buck up. The remedy for feelings of powerlessnes is to help those less fortunate that yourselves. There are still many problems in the would that we need to get control of. Volunteer, join action groups, patition legilators for stronger laws, do something to change the lot of others. It will empower you. 

Child molestation is one big problem - why not make it your mission to stamp it out once and for all. Child molestation is a crime that is goes unpunished close to 99% of the time . When prosecuted, perpetrators are given light sentences so they can get out and continue abusing. The illegal and immoral trading in girls boys and women in prostitution, it is a felony for the protitutes but a misdemeanor for the people driving the trade, the customers and pimps. 

Now who did you say the victims are? 

Make it a felony for the clientele that would drive this illegal activity into the ground in no time. Violence against women and children remains an intractable problem. Sexual assult and rape are increasingly prevalent on college campases and in the armed services. this has to stop, no?

I don't see men being controlled at all. The legal system treats men who commit crimes against women and children very lightly. The difficulty in getting laws changed belies the so called bias against men. Someone mentioned the old judges dying off the effect will not be what you think. The old boy network is breaking down, thank goodness. 

They are being replaced by a population with a higher proportion of women and men who were brought up to by divorced women. The judiciary will be more representitive of the population. Maybe the concerns of the majority will finally be addressed. . Covering the eyes of justice and relying on the scale is not unfair. 

There are probably a few gross generalizations somewhere in this post but it is in keeping with the general tone of the thread. 

Good morning to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't see men being controlled at all. The legal system treats men who commit crimes against women and children very lightly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does it? Then that has to change. Can you point out real life examples of the american judicial system of last 20 years in which a man had a lighter sentence than a woman in the exact same position just because he was a man? In order for me to fully understand how you are getting to this conclusion, that is.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Does it? Then that has to change. Can you point out real life examples of the american judicial system of last 20 years in which a man had a lighter sentence than a woman in the exact same position just because he was a man? In order for me to fully understand how you are getting to this conclusion, that is.


In my experience, when I did some criminal defense work, women were routinely given lighter sentences.
I believe sme of the more notorious women child molesters, were , initially, given probation. 
More recently, they are given some jail time, but not as much as men predators.
Same with domestic violence,which some studies show is just as prevalent in women as men. 
Ever wonder why Biden endorsed the Violence Against Women act and there is no similar act regarding men?
I hope the next generation of lawmakers and judges recognize that each gender should be treated equally.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Coosta, many of the men here were not in situations where there were known friendships going on with other men. The affairs were conducted completely clandestinely. So, there was a need for intelligence gathering.
But, I agree that many of us had at least some signs, that, now equipped with this new found knowledge, would alert us instantly.
I think one of the problems I have with confronting and, basically insisting on certain boundaries is that i want the desire to abide by those to come from within my spouse, not from fear of consequences.
I guess it is a matter of ego. For whatever reasons, perhaps physical appearnace and finances combined with athleticism, in my youth I had access to an inordinate amount of female attention. I just feel there are too many other options for me such that I need not police a romantic partner.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Coosta, many of the men here were not in situations where there were known friendships going on with other men. The affairs were conducted completely clandestinely. So, there was a need for intelligence gathering.
> But, I agree that many of us had at least some signs, that, now equipped with this new found knowledge, would alert us instantly.
> I think one of the problems I have with confronting and, basically insisting on certain boundaries is that i want the desire to abide by those to come from within my spouse, not from fear of consequences.
> I guess it is a matter of ego. For whatever reasons, perhaps physical appearnace and finances combined with athleticism, in my youth I had access to an inordinate amount of female attention. I just feel there are too many other options for me such that I need not police a romantic partner.


You know, one of the things i fear about the whole cheating scene is this right here: " many of us had at least some signs, that, now equipped with this new found knowledge, would alert us instantly."

Not only a cheating event ruins a relationship. It can ruin a person to the point where trust becomes a huge issue, even with a new partner. It's horrible...




> I think one of the problems I have with confronting and, basically insisting on certain boundaries is that i want the desire to abide by those to come from within my spouse,


I understand you. And in an ideal world your partner should, at all times, know what is appropriate and what is not. Unfortunately it is not always the case and there is no reason why you should not mark that line in the sand. Even if that act may even hurt you a bit. Because you had to do it. 



> I think she was just saying that crimes perpetuated against women and children (i.e. sexual offenses) generally have a lighter sentence that most other crimes (i.e. murder, white collar crime). I mean, Bernie Madoff got 150 years in jail for his ponzi scheme. Sexual offenders are generally let out to repeat their crimes...


Well the american judicial system is cumulative for crimes is it not? Hence the hundreds of years in sentences. This may lead to the rapist getting less time than a repeated white collar crime. It's weird that way. 

Many countries don't use this system. Sentences are scaled from murder (usually the worse offense) with a maximum time and all others following, from the most serious to the least serious. In these systems rape and specially pedophilia are usually just bellow murder. 

But what bothered me is that whole man doing crime against woman should be dealt with harshly. What the hell is that? In my book, if a man shoots a woman and if a woman shoots a man, in similar circumstances, they should get the same jail time. Maybe crimes against children deserve special treatment because they are mostly pretty vicious. 



> I am really not sure what any of this has in common with the initial thread topic though…


Me either, but it's an interesting discussion nonetheless. 



> Men and women can be friendly or acquaintances, but if my H were to ever start frequently contacting a female my shields would go up.


And very rightly so, i should say.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

oakthorne, I tend to disagree with you here. OP is right on most if not all counts, we evolved as a patriarchal society. Having said that, marriage is a partnership but the relationship between a man and his wife should be that of captain and first mate

How is it selfishness when a man says he will not compromise his beliefs and values for anybody?
Isn't it more selfish to compromise and end up not being the person you actually are?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Ladies, men are scum and you are weak to their charms

oh, and Americans are pussies


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Ladies, men are scum and you are weak to their charms
> 
> oh, and Americans are pussies



Take it easy on yourself. Having reconciled, you are not , necessarily, a *****.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

No, costa, I just do not want to have to do any policing of my spouse. I would just jettison my wife if she crossed fidelity boundaries.
That said, i would give her fair notice of what those consist of, beforehand.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I am pretty sure i would not trust someone that needed to be warned/policed, anymore than i would trust someone who, actually, crossed the line.
The fact that they person had the desire and only refrained due to potential consequences, would not make me sleep any easier.
In my job, I am out there fighting with folks all day. I want my home life and my family to be my refuge. If i have to go to my spouse and tell her not to flirt etc. , I cannot relax enough to make marriage worth it to me.
Let's face it, any decent looking , decent wage earning guy can get sex relatively easily, if that is what is driving someone to marry. and, onc you have your progeny in place, the desire to perpetuate one's lineage is not a driving force.
Why marry if you have to look over your shoulder. Just be alone and enjoy all that life has to offer.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Oh boy! If you listen to this you are in for relationship problems, especially the macho crap.


Oh really? It seems to be working pretty damn good on our side. Men in every long term relationship i know acts pretty "manly". But the friends i have i've been having that are the "sensitive" type get screwed over big time!

You really need to read more of the accounts the guys here are making. Look at their emotional responses. They are not having macho rants at all. All of them seem to be pretty much in contact with their feeling. Many are even willing to forgive and work at it. How does that play along with:




> This attitude of disrespect as articulated by this poster is what actually does explain the presence of many posters on the site.



That's totally bonkers. These guys aren't here because they were too macho and thus (apparently by the reasoning) not in touch with their feeling. Many are here because they were too trusting, to emotionally dependent on their women.

By all means, point me to threads where you see signs of a too macho guy that "deserved" what he got. I believe you will have some trouble at that. 



> We are living in the 21st century, and we ( both sexes) need to take our vows seriously, and stop making excuses for selfishness.


Yes, i completely agree. This was even a major point i made in this thread.



> Marriage at it's best is a partnership of cooperation and mutual respect. Patriarchical thinking is a problem not a solution.


What is there patriarchal about what i wrote? The fact that a guy has a right to object when he is feeling hurt? Or the fact that i've basically just warned all the women that they should not allow their hubby/bf to have these close "friends"?

Do not let your past experiences launch you right into some sort of misguided crusade against all that is a sign of maleness. 

Speaking of which, in your words:



> My exe's Idea of me "walking all over him,"( he was latin)was to walk out when he hit me'.


I know this will be hard, but introspect a bit.
This creep you were with. He was like this when you fell in love with him. His aggressive behavior was part of what made him attractive to you. And you'll probably not admit it in a thousand years. Nor will the thousands of women that find themselves in that exact predicament. 

This is very hard to swallow, but women do have this hardwired way of finding mates. It ends up sucking in the end but like someone said, evolution doesn't give a damn about the politically correct.



> Ladies, men are scum


Many of us are, no doubt



> you are weak to their charms


Exactly. 



> oh, and Americans are pussies


Not per se, but they are being pussified, yes. And many americans see this too. It doesn't take a genius to see this. They are constantly being sold that everything typically male is some sort of "patriarchal" (word sounds somewhat familiar) negative thing that should be somewhat put down lest it turns them into some raving violent gun touting maniacs with rapist tendencies.

Some of these days they are going to replace your Superball with some ballet or figure skating or some other girlish crap you'd rather not see. And if you protest, then your just being too "macho"...


By the way, the word "macho" in spanish and portuguese means "male". That's right... Lets use this translation and use a sentence of one of my critics here and see how that goes shall we?

"Oh boy! If you listen to this you are in for relationship problems, especially the *male* crap."


How about them apples?

Women and men are different. If you don't accept this and don't know how to deal with it, it's you who are in trouble. In fact, just a quick scour of this board proves this beyond doubt. It is literally full of men who don't really understood women and vice-versa. 

A few centuries of society doesn't erase who we are biologically. Men still look for alternative partners and women still look for a partner to be there for here in the way she wants it. It's that battle of the sexes that no one can win but we all must play, or perish as a casualty. It all boils down to what you want to do.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Take it easy on yourself. Having reconciled, you are not , necessarily, a *****.


Guess the auto -ed allows for the plural version.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> No, costa, I just do not want to have to do any policing of my spouse.


You really don't need to police her. Just keep your eyes open will do. You sense a guy sniffing around your wife and go from there. I don't advise people to act like a gestapo officer. Just don't make it too easy.

Keep rivals at bay, beat your damn chest and do a Tarzan style shout :rofl:

Not literally of course...

The same for the ladies. If you sent a skank around root her out of our marriage ASAP.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Gee, thanks! I feel so enlightened now. I have always confused American media with real American men; so glad you set me straight.


But he has a point about that. It's always bothered me that the male family figures in most shows/movies/even commercials are portrayed as bumbling fools, the laughing stocks of the family. It's very disrespectful. I don't agree with everything the OP said, but I agree with that part.

This is partly why I LOVE Ed O'Neill's character in Modern Family. He isn't perfect, and he can laugh at himself, but he is strong, and takes care of his family.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Oh really? It seems to be working pretty damn good on our side. Men in every long term relationship i know acts pretty "manly". But the friends i have i've been having that are the "sensitive" type get screwed over big time!
> 
> You really need to read more of the accounts the guys here are making. Look at their emotional responses. They are not having macho rants at all. All of them seem to be pretty much in contact with their feeling. Many are even willing to forgive and work at it. How does that play along with:
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure women are into the variety thing, as well.
I am not a biologist(but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express), but it seems this hypergamy(sp?) deal is in play, as well.
Doesn't the species benefit if the women can select for desirable features? Don't they , instinctively, look for upgrades while in a stable relationship?
So, are the genders really any different in this desire for strange?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Anyone who uses the word "feminazi" without irony loses me, .....



That`s only because you are one.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Doesn't the species benefit if the women can select for desirable features? Don't they , instinctively, look for upgrades while in a stable relationship?


Yes, they do. In fact, this is very common in the natural world. Two males, a good provider to take care of the offspring and a secret mate with high attractiveness level. 



> So, are the genders really any different in this desire for strange?


This gender conflict is necessarily unequal due to biological constraints. Men can have as many children as women they have access to. Women must choose the partner carefully. 

This is the simple version. But in reality, us being a very complex species with many particularities, this is an extremely hard subject. That's why we rely on statistics. For example, double fecundation numbers (double fertilization is understood as a situation where a female has sex with two partners within the space of 48 hours, generally within her fertile period), number of total sexual partners, STD spread patterns etc.


Some would say that contraceptives have changed things. But it really hasn't. What goes on is that we still follow the same rules, behave like we always did but with no biological consequences (this probably only complicates matters). 



> This is partly why I LOVE Ed O'Neill's character in Modern Family.


Yeah, i like that character too. Pretty balanced male with some healthy motives behind his actions.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Paladin said:


> You come here and post in this section of the forum for what reason? To feel superior to people who might be suffering some serious emotional pain? You post a bunch of arrogant drivel, and when you rightfully get called out on it, immediately become defensive and hostile. Obviously you know more about love and women and relationships than anyone else because you are Portuguese. You demand an intellectual debate? That assumes the person on the other end respects you enough to give you that kind of time. You speak of "humor" yet possess none of it. Saying you have a Napoleon complex would be a major understatement. I truly feel bad for the three combined minutes I wasted in here.


And to think it only took you three minutes to diagnose a Napoleon complex.

Glass houses and all that....


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

So, if the desire is the same, but constrained by biolgy, to some extent, why would not contraception, or being beyond child bearing years make things equal?
I think it ispretty clear that in these modern times, females have more partners than they did pre- birth control pills.
And, women are multi orgasmic, require little if any recovery time, and can accomodate more partners in a short space of time as compared to men.
Seems the biology of women favors them in terms of being more prolific.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> So, if the desire is the same, but constrained by biolgy, to some extent, why would not contraception, or being beyond child bearing years make things equal?
> I think it ispretty clear that in these modern times, females have more partners than they did pre- birth control pills.
> And, women are multi orgasmic, require little if any recovery time, and can accomodate more partners in a short space of time as compared to men.
> Seems the biology of women favors them in terms of being more prolific.


You're right in all accounts, but the thing is that this situation is new. We are not biologically adapted to it. 

Women do feel safer in exploring their sexuality (this probably increases physical affairs) but the dynamic is still the same. Their motivations haven't changed yet and will not until much time into the future. 

The woman that has sexual intercourse with man after man is still pretty much an exception. Even in the sexually free western world.

The future, now that will be interesting, because right now the real value is changing from the female womb (traditional limit to reproduction) to one of resources. Basically a man's resources, that he can be willing or not to share with a female, are becoming more and more important. 

Will we see in the future women hunting down men like 19th century men chased after women? Should be fun to watch, although i see the first symptoms of that already.

And in comes the laws. How is it that a guy can be forced to pay child support for a kid that isn't his? This is a tremendous outright violence against men. Why aren't we protesting this crap? We are apparently to ashamed to do it


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Let's get working on that time machine. We head for the future, are hunted by females for sex(those users) and then we retreat to the past, having perpetuated our lineage for centuries.
Maybe they will have invented drugs that do away with recovery time and that make us multiorgasmic(or devices like the orgasmatron, as seen in Woddy allen's "Sleeper").
Viagra/Cialis combined with steroids and HGH:smthumbup:


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Let's get working on that time machine. We head for the future, are hunted by females for sex(those users) and then we retreat to the past, having perpetuated our lineage for centuries.
> Maybe they will have invented drugs that do away with recovery time and that make us multiorgasmic(or devices like the orgasmatron, as seen in Woddy allen's "Sleeper").
> Viagra/Cialis combined with steroids and HGH:smthumbup:


:rofl:

That's the mood right there


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

"Quick, into the wayback, Sherman".

Google this as you are from Portugal, and it may make no sense.

Guy goes into a bar and hits on a woman. In an effort to repel him she informs him,"Sorry, I am a Lesbain".
Response: "That's okay. I love Portugal".

(works better with Lebanon/ Bierut.)


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> It's starting to change as the older Judges and lawmakers die off. Ironically , in manycases, it is a male judge shafting the dad in a divorce. These a-holes still beleive in chivalry and that nonsense. They think all women are like June Cleaver.


I am a huge believer in chivary and bushido ... I don't think you understand that both of these are things very strong and manly men embrace. I suspect you have a very different idea of what chivalty is than I do.

Please continue along.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> Oh boy! If you listen to this you are in for relationship problems, especially the macho crap. Macho entitlement or the "I'm a man I'm supposed to act this way" is what caused so much of the heart ache you read about on this forum. We are living in the 21st century, and we ( both sexes) need to take our vows seriously, and stop making excuses for selfishness. My exe's Idea of me "walking all over him,"( he was latin)was to walk out when he hit me'. This attitude of disrespect as articulated by this poster is what actually does explain the presence of many posters on the site. Marriage at it's best is a partnership of cooperation and mutual respect. Patriarchical thinking is a problem not a solution.


A real man does not hit women. Your ex was not a man. No matter how machismo he tried to act. Please do not confuse that with be a real man. A real man will not be a doormat but he does not need to physically beat up a woman.

There is nothgin special about 2012 or the 21st cehtury that says a man has to be emasculated. I get your point if you are talking about a man that beats woman. Nothing manly there.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> But he has a point about that. It's always bothered me that the male family figures in most shows/movies/even commercials are portrayed as bumbling fools, the laughing stocks of the family. It's very disrespectful. I don't agree with everything the OP said, but I agree with that part.
> 
> This is partly why I LOVE Ed O'Neill's character in Modern Family. He isn't perfect, and he can laugh at himself, but he is strong, and takes care of his family.


Yes this s over done for sure. How about mixing in a real man just for the role model every once in a while.

But it may be supply and demand. There is much resentment of men. We saw that when the View though it was funny when they talked about the guy having his penis cut off and thrown in the sink garbage disposal.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I am pretty sure women are into the variety thing, as well.
> I am not a biologist(but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express), but it seems this hypergamy(sp?) deal is in play, as well.
> Doesn't the species benefit if the women can select for desirable features? Don't they , instinctively, look for upgrades while in a stable relationship?
> So, are the genders really any different in this desire for strange?


Dude. Seriously. You are ina very dark place. I sincerely hope you can pull through this. I trust you will in time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I am pretty sure women are into the variety thing, as well.
> I am not a biologist(but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express), but it seems this hypergamy(sp?) deal is in play, as well.
> Doesn't the species benefit if the women can select for desirable features? Don't they , instinctively, look for upgrades while in a stable relationship?
> So, are the genders really any different in this desire for strange?


The genders are not all that different. We are socialized differently. One thing that makes it obvious that a lot of what society thinks are differences in regards to sex is to look at today's younger generation. Young girls today are socialized very differently than girls when I was young (i'm 63 now). And their sexual behavior is very different than the way most girls behaved when I was a teen.

The reason so many societies do not allow the mixing of unmarried, unrelated males and females is because when a man and woman get close as in friendship, it does not take long for sex to break out... willingly on both sides.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> A real man does not hit women. Your ex was not a man. No matter how machismo he tried to act. Please do not confuse that with be a real man. A real man will not be a doormat but he does not need to physically beat up a woman.
> 
> There is nothgin special about 2012 or the 21st cehtury that says a man has to be emasculated. I get your point if you are talking about a man that beats woman. Nothing manly there.


Well, what if a woman is trying to beat your brains in or attacking your kid? What if a woman has a knife to your throat?
Can women hit men? Do real women hit men?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Dude. Seriously. You are ina very dark place. I sincerely hope you can pull through this. I trust you will in time.


Thanks, bro. With your help and a little bushido, I may make it. I too am serious, dude.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The genders are not all that different. We are socialized differently. One thing that makes it obvious that a lot of what society thinks are differences in regards to sex is to look at today's younger generation. Young girls today are socialized very differently than girls when I was young (i'm 63 now). And their sexual behavior is very different than the way most girls behaved when I was a teen.
> 
> The reason so many societies do not allow the mixing of unmarried, unrelated males and females is because when a man and woman get close as in friendship, it does not take long for sex to break out... willingly on both sides.


WTF, Dude. You are in some darkened spot, admitting this.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Yeah, that pesky thing about women being in charge of their own reproductive systems...WTF? And who gave them the right to vote, anyhoo?


so you think there is no truth in what the OP says?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

anonim said:


> so you think there is no truth in what the OP says?


What about that pesky little draft deal we dealt with in my day?And that pesky little Violence Against Women Act with no corresponding protection for men? Or ,the lack of shelters for abused men? Darn pesky, if you ask me.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I agree with much of the rhetoric from the OP as far some Western men. Unfortunately the sample that post on here who are having issues manning up are not a representative sample of "American Men" or Western men for that matter. Also and this is not going to be a popular opinion, some number of those posts are pure fantasy troll posts for the purpose of stirring folks up. Some are just wankers who get off writing cuckold fantasies. But yes I do believe some portion of them are true enough. It is very hard to tell. It is bewildering. I do think there is a trend to emascualte men for some reason. It starts in the schools unfortunately. Many teachers are seeing this and trying to reverse this trend. Many male traits are seen as not being team oriented for example. So they are discouraged by authority and even by drugs. So there is something to what you are saying. I do agree that there is a huge trend towards being a Nice Guy that is counter productive.
> 
> Like it or not folks though American men can be some of the most Alpha with positve Beta traits in the freaking world. We pretty much kick @$$. You can argue the politics but American men are often in harms way. I am not disrespecting other Western countries but he referenced American men. A guy from Portugal. LOL. Love you guys.
> 
> ...


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

Although the creator of this thread was a little harsh, I agree. I am a 45 year old female and I have never had a male "friend". It always, and I mean always, come to sex. I have tried so hard to have a male friend and it never works out. I've had so many arguments with my husband over this. He cheated on me and will not stop parading female "friends" in my face. I counted them on his facebook once and he has 5 ex lovers and his ex wife as friends. They also have his cell number and occassionally, I find a text there. I cannot convince him to get them out of his life and i know why he will not comply. He likes to keep doors open and the very least, he likes the attention. I am not so naive anymore, but what can i do about it? I am, like we all are, a product of my life experiences and it has taught me that men don't want to be just a woman's friend.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

dixieangel said:


> Although the creator of this thread was a little harsh, I agree. I am a 45 year old female and I have never had a male "friend". It always, and I mean always, come to sex. I have tried so hard to have a male friend and it never works out. I've had so many arguments with my husband over this. He cheated on me and will not stop parading female "friends" in my face. I counted them on his facebook once and he has 5 ex lovers and his ex wife as friends. They also have his cell number and occassionally, I find a text there. I cannot convince him to get them out of his life and i know why he will not comply. He likes to keep doors open and the very least, he likes the attention. I am not so naive anymore, but what can i do about it? I am, like we all are, a product of my life experiences and it has taught me that men don't want to be just a woman's friend.



Your H is way out of line. WTF , is he dumber than a post?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

H? you mean husband?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Yeah, husband/idiot.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

My husband has near genius level IQ and is narcissistic...he has no capacity for empathy. Impossible to argue with because he is always right about everything. Very difficult personality to deal with! 

p.s. I wind up sleeping in another room alot.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Well, what if a woman is trying to beat your brains in or attacking your kid? What if a woman has a knife to your throat?
> Can women hit men? Do real women hit men?


I would like to see the ladies take on this Question please. Though I suspect it will be ignored and buried.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

anonim: Physical abuse by a man or woman is wrong. Do you think women think it's ok to hit their husbands just because they are females?


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

dixieangel said:


> anonim: Physical abuse by a man or woman is wrong. Do you think women think it's ok to hit _men _just because they are females?


For some women. Yes.

Some men seemingly think its ok when they hit women.

Some women hit men because men wont hit them back because they are female. Which is basically a **** test IMO.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

dixieangel said:


> Although the creator of this thread was a little harsh, I agree. I am a 45 year old female and I have never had a male "friend". It always, and I mean always, come to sex. I have tried so hard to have a male friend and it never works out. I've had so many arguments with my husband over this. He cheated on me and will not stop parading female "friends" in my face. I counted them on his facebook once and he has 5 ex lovers and his ex wife as friends. They also have his cell number and occassionally, I find a text there. I cannot convince him to get them out of his life and i know why he will not comply. He likes to keep doors open and the very least, he likes the attention. I am not so naive anymore, but what can i do about it? I am, like we all are, a product of my life experiences and it has taught me that men don't want to be just a woman's friend.


Thank you. I know i was harsh. I was not pulling blows because the objective was indeed full honesty. Working with women all day long as taught me that when you're not direct to the point they sometimes get lost on the details of the "beating around the bush" and the real message is lost.

This probably sounds pretty callous but i find it works a lot better this way. Both genders already have enough communication problems without the unnecessary noise.

I find the support of an experienced woman to be very important, since younger women are often very naive regarding this subject. They fool themselves into thinking that the males that orbit around them are their "friends" in a platonic sense. This leads to awkward situations. And what is even worse is that they also think sometimes that their hubbies and Bfs really are only "friends" to that other good looking woman. 

Regarding your husband's behavior, the reason why he does what he does you already know. You have probably known for a long time now. The reason why he doesn't comply with your requests is just that he know he can get away with it. You'll huff and puff and in the end you'll be doing nothing. As long as you don't shake that dynamic the situation will not change.


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Well, what if a woman is trying to beat your brains in or attacking your kid? What if a woman has a knife to your throat?
> Can women hit men? Do real women hit men?





anonim said:


> I would like to see the ladies take on this Question please. Though I suspect it will be ignored and buried.


I have kind of a unique perspective on this because I boxed and did MMA for several years. Most women these days have no idea what it feels like to be hit by a grown man. I do. (Only in sport/martial arts settings.) So yes, there are women running around, being violent against men with impunity because they think (know) they can get away with it. In my opinion, those women need one good pop in the face. You will never ever catch me starting something physical with a man because, after my experiences in boxing in MMA, I have no desire whatsoever to go there in an unregulated setting. I know I'd be writing a check I can't cash. 

Nobody should hit nobody.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

dixieangel said:


> Although the creator of this thread was a little harsh, I agree. I am a 45 year old female and I have never had a male "friend". It always, and I mean always, come to sex. I have tried so hard to have a male friend and it never works out. I've had so many arguments with my husband over this. He cheated on me and will not stop parading female "friends" in my face. I counted them on his facebook once and he has 5 ex lovers and his ex wife as friends. They also have his cell number and occassionally, I find a text there. I cannot convince him to get them out of his life and i know why he will not comply. He likes to keep doors open and the very least, he likes the attention. I am not so naive anymore, but what can i do about it? I am, like we all are, a product of my life experiences and it has taught me that men don't want to be just a woman's friend.


This is total bullsh!t. I made my husband get rid of his treading female 'friends'. He really had no choice; every time one of them crossed the line, I was right there throwing the penalty flag. Some people don't mind having all kinds of exes or 'friends' intertwining in their social circles. I do.

That being said, there weren't that many of them to begin with, only 2 or 3; funny thing though, even though they were tucked neatly away in the past where they belong, they all started to resurface once things got serious with us. Now WHY is that? What kind of 'friend' does that?


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

He got banned, blimey


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Who got banned? The OP?
Blimey!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Didnt contribute to the thread but it made a very interesting read!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I agreed with some of his posts. Perhaps he was just here to egg people on, but he had some valid points...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

This guy, costa, had some really good insights. And, he seemed fairly non-reactive when some folks were ridiculing and taunting him.
Why would he be banned(maybe I will be banned for asking).
I think this banning deal is a bit much. Someone has a hair trigger.


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## ireallylike (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi this is Costa200,

no i wasn't here to egg people off... i told a guy he was being a doormat for his woman and a mod banned me for "name calling"... I just made this account to say that i wasn't here to antagonize people at all. 

But apparently i got some preferential treatment applied on me. Possibly by some moderator that has a problem with too much honesty. I've seen people being very cruel and downright offensive and nothing happened to them. 

But whatever. I don't know if i'll bother to return after my suspension is done. Just as possible final message to the guys and gals i was starting to like here:

Stay strong and proud, love yourself and your kids above everything else.

Whatever the problems we face in life, our self respect and dignity should never be given away, sold or erased. 

Goodbye, maybe...


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I agree, BigLiam. Some of the responses to him were harsh... Costa I hope you return after your suspension... No more name-calling! :nono: 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> I agree, BigLiam. Some of the responses to him were harsh... Costa I hope you return after your suspension... No more name-calling! :nono: :d
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you the Mother Hen?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

candiegirl

i hate to be mean but i have already had a public facebook war of words with one woman who was publically flirting with my husband..i am very non-confrontational but this put me over the edge...she's still around and friended me, but admitted later to HIM that i'm correct in my belief that men are not a woman's friend. I'm so upset that at my age, i'm faced with this childish b.s. My husband and i were separated a year ago and one of my gf's was trying to move in on him. I really have trust issues even with women now. Sometimes i think none of it is even worth the effort.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Well, what if a woman is trying to beat your brains in or attacking your kid? What if a woman has a knife to your throat?
> Can women hit men? Do real women hit men?


Trashy low class women hit men. If your woman is hitting you or has a knife to your throat ... your really f^cked up somewhere.

Do not make these type of women a part of your life.

Sadly, many battered wives continue to get involved in relationships with abusive men. Logicially then I suppose the opposite just might be true. I honestly do not know. It is just so obvious on the women.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

costa200 said:


> You really don't need to police her. Just keep your eyes open will do. You sense a guy sniffing around your wife and go from there. I don't advise people to act like a gestapo officer. Just don't make it too easy.
> 
> Keep rivals at bay, beat your damn chest and do a Tarzan style shout :rofl:
> 
> ...


Yes. Keep involved in your marriage. If you feel like a guy is sniffing around ... HE IS SNIFFING AROUND. RUN HIM THE HELL OFF. Not to do so is allowing another male to dominte you. Duh!. 

It is tacet approval to allow him to keep pounding at the gates. It sends a message to him that you are weak and willing to allow him to pursue your wife. That you are are a lesser man not worthy of his own wife. 

It is also a message to your wife that you are weak, a less fit male, willing to be dominated by another man and frankly that you just don't care much about losing her. One will not respect anyone who does not respect themselves.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I just told my husband last night to get the ex lovers blocked from his facebook and deleted from his cell phone. I've seen him talking to them way too much and I won't deal with it anymore. He is making excuses and extremely mad at me, but I know I am right. The sad part is I shouldn't have to ask him to do this. Why do I bother when he's disrespecting me this way? If he wants an open door policy with ex lovers, then I believe there is only one reason. And that means I shouldn't be with him.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

dixieangel said:


> I just told my husband last night to get the ex lovers blocked from his facebook and deleted from his cell phone. I've seen him talking to them way too much and I won't deal with it anymore. He is making excuses and extremely mad at me, but I know I am right. The sad part is I shouldn't have to ask him to do this? Why do I bother when he's disrespecting me this way?


DA,

Is he not abusive? Does he not show disrespect to you, the marriage, and marital vows? 

You shouldn't have to ask him, it is his moral duty to be loyal to you.

I get the feeling that you have rated yourself a little low. You are dependent on him?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I have become dependent. I lost my job a few months ago. So, I suppose he thinks that he can do whatever he wants. But I would rather be homeless than live with someone so disrespectful.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

dixieangel said:


> I have become dependent. I lost my job a few months ago. So, I suppose he thinks that he can do whatever he wants. But I would rather be homeless than live with someone so disrespectful.


Sorry DE. I appreciate your determination to refuse to live a life like this. God speed you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> So, if the desire is the same, but constrained by biolgy, to some extent, why would not contraception, or being beyond child bearing years make things equal?
> I think it ispretty clear that in these modern times, females have more partners than they did pre- birth control pills.
> And, women are multi orgasmic, require little if any recovery time, and can accomodate more partners in a short space of time as compared to men.
> Seems the biology of women favors them in terms of being more prolific.


Women are capable of having a lot more sex than men. Contraception has taken a control off some of this. Soooooo. The pendulum is continuing to swing. There is a real you go girl attitude for some. Somehow justifying the infidelities by the deep resentment a number of woman harbor for men. I am not saying ALL women. I am talking about the trend. 

We keep hearing that this is 2012 and the 21st century so men do not "own" women. Women have the right to sleep with I guess hundreds of men and husbands are berated for passing on those women. After all the past is the past. It was just sex. He is not her father. I do think women can do whatever they want. But being the 21st century does not take away a mans right to reject them and certainly he still has the right to expect true fidelity in marriage. Not just not having sex with other men ... but true faithfulness.

While actual cheating by wives may be arguably on the rise ... due to many factors over the past fifty years, the infidelity that seems so insidious to me is the other type of infidelty. The insistence to engage with other men as close friends and in sexually charged social settings where they go to get attention from and give attention to other men. 

It is fun to play at the mating game. Fun to drink, flirt, touch and be touched ( groped ) by other men. Fun to get attention by being overtly on the prowl in showing a lot of skin and / or sans under garments. Nip slips or just nipples that would poke your eyes out dancing on those jiggling breasts. Micro dresses with things or less, that allow for exposure during "dancing". Or just dancing up close body to body so the man can feel her and grope her while she feels him and his erection. Undulating bodies. Hot stuff. Surely this is innocent. Just dancing. Not all women go to this extreme but the game continuously has to be upped by that competition women talk about. I am not talking about women at marriage friendly GNOs who dress classy and look good. They might turn your head, but I am talking about the women who turn your head and make you go, wow what woman is on the prowl tonight ... what a loser for a husband.

Some will spin this as blowing off steam. But what it is, is cheating their husband out of this sexual energy. This is cake eating. Guys who say yeah but she comes home horny for me. Only a true douche would even think that way. Sad really. And yes this is on the path to full blown cheating but I think infidelity numbers do not see the iceburg below this threshhold.

These women just say trust me. It is ok to play just the tip. I want to have the attention and play the mating ritual with other men.

But this is just one segment of activities. Perhaps more common and less obvious is the desire for the polyamory of having a number of close make friends. They bond with these guys who are like her brothers ... except they are not her brothers. They bod and share intimacies that they do not share with their hubby. Perhaps because huby is working those long hours for the family. Maybe he works nights. Or maybe he is home with the kids. So she can go over her "friends" apartment to cuddle up on the couch and watch movies. She likes to chat about intimate things because as a man he can give a man's perspective. It is good for the marriage because he can guide her. Maybe she is not going to his apartmant but maybe just dating him.

So the infidelity that hurts most marriages IMO beyond penis in vagina are :

1) Having EAs with co-workers

2) Dating other men. aka having a number of male friends. We can only hope these are just EAs.

3) Internet men. Facebook .et .al. Fantasy lovers like EXs and high school crushes.

3) Non marriage friendly activities often done under the guise of GNOs but are really Girls Nights Out playing with Other Men. I am not even talking about the ONS. I am talking about the sexual play that is disrespectful to the marriage. The exchanges of facebook information that essentially add these men to her harum and she to theirs. Sometimes this is a wife and her wingwoman.

4) Other activities that involve special time with other men, like Personal Trainers of all sorts or Male Mentors / Coaches ... etc. Maybe even that special massage guy.

No doubt I am only scratching the surface. One could go on a rant about how men cheat the marriage as well. But my point is here that most infidelity is not even tracked. Most incidents infidelity do not end in having full blown sex. Most cheating of the marriage lies in the gray before that. Most infidelity sucks the life out of the marriage. It impacts the emotions. It provides the fuel for dissatifaction and rationalization. It leads to ILYBIANILWY. It leads to focusing on the negative. 

How this relates here? 

Weak husbands are boring. A husband absolutely must be both Alpha and Beta. Much in the way a fireman has to be. *Alpha enough to run into a burning building but Beta enough to be driven to do so. 
*

Women do have a natural urge to continually seek the most fit male whether they understand this or not. Guys ... deal with it. Choose the right woman for you. If you marry a party girl do not be shocked if she continues to want to party with the boys. Be the most fit male you can be. Shake it up. Be both Alpha and Beta. Rock her world. 

Also, you have to be in tune with her. You are built to c0ckblock my friend. DO IT. Any man who is afraid of being called jealous, insecure or controlling is already beaten and is ripe for being dominated by another man. STOP THAT. 

If you have self respect you will refuse to be disrespected. You should trust yourself first and the most. Marriage is about love and respect. Not trust. Trust is a by product. I trust my wife but I am not blind. I love her too much. I refuse to be naive, lazy or ambivalent. Women fitness test men all the time. If you show ambivalence you are saying to her "I don't care what you do. I don't love you enough. I do not believe I am the best man for you.". So she will push the boundary more and more just to see what you will do. At some point it is less about fitness testing you and more about cake eating. After all you are admitting you are not truly good enough for her and she must seek her needs elsewhere.

Summary :

Be a real man. All that that entails. Man-up. Love your woman. Do not give her reason to stray. BUT do not put up with the mating games that look so innocent. Listen to your gut. C0ckblock. Your marriage will benefit from it. If you truly love your wife then be the husband she deserves you to be. While cheating is owned by the cheater, allowing these other levels of infidelity is enabling. You can control yourself. Be the man. Have NO FEAR. Use your courage to work through fears to eliminate them. Do not let fear be an excuse for not taking appropriate actions as the man you are. Your woman wants a man.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Be a real man. All that that entails. Man-up. Love your woman. *Do not give her reason to stray*. BUT do not put up with the mating games that look so innocent. Listen to your gut. C0ckblock. Your marriage will benefit from it.


As far as I know, I don't think my wife had a reason to stray.

No one needs reasons to stray. They come up with reasons after they do so.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

costa200 said:


> You're right in all accounts, but the thing is that this situation is new. *We are not biologically adapted to it. *
> 
> Women do feel safer in exploring their sexuality (this probably increases physical affairs) but the dynamic is still the same. Their motivations haven't changed yet and will not until much time into the future.
> 
> ...


This is a paradigm shift. The changes that have occurred over the last fifty years have not yet been adapted to. That creates a great imbalance. It is very dynamic. 

So yes this is the 21st century. A Brave New World ( Huxley ). 

So in the name of adapting I suggest men get their heads out of their own @$$. The ability to adapt is Darwinian. A man with inteligence and intuition with the proper mixes of Alpha and Beta traits will be selected to prosper. It is their choice.

I suggest looking forward indeed, but I believe that one needs a less myopic view at the same time. Do not be afraid while looking forward to consider the foundation of the past. Learn from mistakes but personally I can see some wisdom of the past that men have abadoned.

I am in many ways a modern man. I push the envelope in my professional world. My wife and I have had a very equitable realtionship our whole marriage. Progressive to that end. BUT fundamentals rule as far as I am concerned. To me this means having a strong center. That requires self respect and honor. So I can be chivalrous and bushido and still be a modern man. Because they are timeless. They deal with life from a position of strength and compassion in balance. So to adapt ... we simply alter our balances.

No fear. The world you can adapt to on your terms ... you own.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

anonymouskitty said:


> As far as I know, I don't think my wife had a reason to stray.
> 
> No one needs reasons to stray. They come up with reasons after they do so.


You did that part well then. Good. Check that one off. Unfortunately many men are so overly Beta or so overly Alpha that they are bad partners.

I stand by what I said and you agree. We can only control ourselves. We should not put up with being disrespected and we need to make our choice of a mate with great care.

You should treat your marriage as if it was important.
As if we respected ourselves. As if we actually cared.
Like it was important to us.

We must live with our choices. Who were choose as our partner is critical. Yes there is an element of luck here. But given a lemon, we need to improve ourself and our choices and move forward hopefully with a partner more worthy.

It does none of us any good to play the victim.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

anonim said:


> Neither was america b4 WWII.
> 
> And? So what? Kinda my point. Thank you.
> 
> ...


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You did that part well then. Good. Check that one off. Unfortunately many men are so overly Beta or so overly Alpha that they are bad partners.
> 
> I stand by what I said and you agree. We can only control ourselves. We should not put up with being disrespected and we need to make our choice of a mate with great care.
> 
> ...


I'm not playing the victim card at all, on the contrary I'm merely pointing out that affairs happen because people lack strong personal boundaries


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

anonymouskitty said:


> I'm not playing the victim card at all, on the contrary I'm merely pointing out that affairs happen because people lack strong personal boundaries


In no way do I disagree with you.

I am all about boundaries. I am not in any way suggesting that even with the best of marriages there can be infidelity. This is why I think blind trust is very naive.

But things in life are complex. If a couple is not meeting eachn other needs they are more vulnerable to infidelity. Meeting each other needs does not guarnatee fidelity. There are no guarantees. 

This is why I push folks to do His Needs Her Needs and do the boundary setting. That helps with boundaries. That will leave some smaller number of folks who fail anyway. But is is a smaller number.

*All else equal a man will have more sucess if he has self respect and meets his wife's needs.*

This is not aimed at a specific individual. I fully understand the history re-writing and rationalization hamsters.
But men who sit around and allow themselves to become a doormat are only enabling the behavior. I am not saying that this has anything to do with your situation.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Hello people, i'm back after being a huge big bad boy (although i've seen handfuls of people using the exact same expression i used and not get banned).

I kept myself lurking here and i've seen several threads where i thought i could post something different of what was being said. So i'm going to try and make a contribution here, because some of these people i keep seeing just exude pain.




> As far as I know, I don't think my wife had a reason to stray.
> 
> No one needs reasons to stray. They come up with reasons after they do so


You're right in a sense. People don't really need big reasons to cheat. But take notice that a part of taking care of yourself in every way is exactly that if the worse does happen you will be holding a good hand of cards and have a chance to pick yourself up. 

One of the reasons some people don't show no restrains in cheating is that they think they have their partner completely under control. The partner has no options and so, even if caught, they risk little because they know they will be able to weasel themselves back.

A huge part in a relationship is the way you see yourself.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

My only mistake costa was not laying the boundaries out in the open, now I have, she's free to cross them anytime.I can't control what she does, but I can control what I'm going to do if and when my principles are violated.

Besides we're more than 7 years into R without any slip up on her part, so I think I recovered just fine.

That said, I agree with everything you say. But do not for a second consider me a victim mon ami, I am a survivor, a veteran not a victim.There are no victims here, only survivors.

Besides, what Entropy and I were discussing has more to do with the WS and less with the BS, please read the posts again


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

****Weak husbands are boring. A husband absolutely must be both Alpha and Beta. Much in the way a fireman has to be. Alpha enough to run into a burning building but Beta enough to be driven to do so. ****

Entropy, what do you think that the man needs in a woman? As I wrote on another thread, I'm starting to think that men are looking for 1) stability and steadiness; but also 2) drama and excitement. And if he can't find it in one woman, he will manage to find a second one to fulfil those needs.

Would you agree? Or how would you frame a man's needs for a partner (and hopefully, just one)?


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

NextTimeAround, going by what you say, supposing your wife were to come down with an illness and thus would not be able to meet all your NEEDS what would you do?

I disagree with the statement that everything has to do with * his needs/her needs* Life's not about needs all the time, no one is obligated to supply anyone with every need he/she deems necessary, but does that justify going behind the partner's back just to fulfil them without giving them a chance to do so, not at all.
Loyalty and respect are the needs that you'll want at the top of your list, I can forego excitement and drama.
I wouldn't expect excitement and drama from a terminally ill wife, and I sure as **** won't go about finding it elsewhere because my alphaness is not getting its fix


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

anonymouskitty said:


> My only mistake costa was not laying the boundaries out in the open, now I have, she's free to cross them anytime.I can't control what she does, but I can control what I'm going to do if and when my principles are violated.


That's the corner stone right there :smthumbup:



> Besides we're more than 7 years into R without any slip up on her part, so I think I recovered just fine.
> 
> That said, I agree with everything you say. But do not for a second consider me a victim mon ami, I am a survivor, a veteran not a victim.There are no victims here, only survivors.


That's completely badass of you to say 
But there are victims here... Because they allow themselves to be victims, unlike the process you went through. I hope everything goes your way in your marriage.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Welcome back Costa. I find your posts to be the most interesting here. I'm afraid there are some religious folks that can't accept anthropological explainations for human behavior. I believe that's why you were banned.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Most of what the OP says sounds true.
That's why I don't meet my male friends very often. Why?
Because there is nothing specific we can talk about other than general stuff.
I can't talk to them about girlish things and I can't be frank to them just as I would be with a female friend.

Actually, I have never really believed in a close friendship between a man and a woman - unless they have excluded the option of being a couple (because apparently they don't find each other sexually attractive. )


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Enginerd said:


> Welcome back Costa. I find your posts to be the most interesting here. I'm afraid there are some religious folks that can't accept anthropological explainations for human behavior. I believe that's why you were banned.


You would be incorrect in that assumption.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Welcome back Costa. I find your posts to be the most interesting here. I'm afraid there are some religious folks that can't accept anthropological explainations for human behavior. I believe that's why you were banned.




I never got the vibe that this was a religious board. The official explanation was "name calling", and that could only have been over the single post i got deleted, in which in fact i used the expression "doormat" in referring to some dude that i thought needed it. I'm ok with that. I surely hope it's all about that and not because my views are contradictory to what some people think their religion tells them. 



> That's why I don't meet my male friends very often. Why?
> Because there is nothing specific we can talk about other than general stuff.
> I can't talk to them about girlish things and I can't be frank to them just as I would be with a female friend.
> 
> Actually, I have never really believed in a close friendship between a man and a woman - unless they have excluded the option of being a couple (because apparently they don't find each other sexually attractive. )


Thanks for the input. I only made this about men because i'm one. I know pretty well what goes on inside my head. Why i have no female "friends" because in all honestly that would be disrespectful of my partner. She knows my position and agrees. In our relation there is no room for a third person, and we aren't even willing to open the "friend" door. We are both connected to the biological sciences and we have a good basis of understanding about the situation.

Every guy knows i'm being truthful. In fact the great critics of my way of thinking are mostly women... Which is kinda funny, since i made this threat to warn THEM. 

Some women tend to rationalize the presence of male "friends". 

The other group are usually cheating men (or at least they are setting the way for it)... But those i don't even want to reply to.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

costa200 said:


> I never got the vibe that this was a religious board. The official explanation was "name calling", and that could only have been over the single post i got deleted, in which in fact i used the expression "doormat" in referring to some dude that i thought needed it. I'm ok with that. I surely hope it's all about that and not because my views are contradictory to what some people think their religion tells them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've seen dozens of posters use the term "doormat". It's one the most commonly used terms on this board. There was a some kind of bias at play IMO. Since marriage is a religious institution some of the advice here is based on those beliefs.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> I've seen dozens of posters use the term "doormat". It's one the most commonly used terms on this board. There was a some kind of bias at play IMO. Since marriage is a religious institution some of the advice here is based on those beliefs.


Just let it be... Mod already said it wasn't anything like that and it's not like this interests me at all. I'm here because i have free time and i want to use it helping people out with my way of seeing things. If i ever feel that there is hostility in the forum and i'm not welcomed i'll just leave. It's not like i'm being payed or anything.

And marriage at this moment is much more than a religious institution. It has very real legal impact, and by itself is just a piece of paper unless we look at its meaning psychologically and yes, biologically.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Welcome back Costa!
I like this thread & I like your posts, you really do bring something extra into these discussions, keep it up!
Your posts maybe provocative to some, but to me they are very worthwhile.
I also like how you are not combative with people, you just tell it like it is. :smthumbup:


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Welcome back Costa!
> I like this thread & I like your posts, you really do bring something extra into these discussions, keep it up!
> Your posts maybe provocative to some, but to me they are very worthwhile.


When people think my posts are provocative they need to think why at least. The people who are more rilled up by them tend to need my posts very much. Even if they are not seeing it.




> I also like how you are not combative with people, you just tell it like it is.


Oh, i'm very combative. I just do it in a way that i think favors me, telling "it like it is". Any other way is just lame and weak. Totally against what i'm about. Even when some people keep baiting because they really can't argue their case.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> Welcome back Costa. I find your posts to be the most interesting here.  I'm afraid there are some religious folks that can't accept anthropological explainations for human behavior. I believe that's why you were banned.


I'm a self-professed athiest and I haven't seen the slightest indication that I wasn't welcome


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

I am new to the forum and this is my first post on any type of site. Reading through a number of comments and topics has been extremely helpful and I am amazed at the extent of pain so many suffered as a result of their spouse's infidelity.

I felt so shamed, dissillusioned and destroyed by the discovery of my husband's infidelity -- which completely went against all that I thought was his commitment to our marriage and core morality--that ours was marriage built on solid ground, unique and continually looking to reach greater depths of understanding and love and working together toward our family's happiness.

I was a dedicated spouse and mother, all of my energies had been spent on building a future together. The result of his affair made me question the very base of our marriage and whether there had been other affairs in the past (I will never know). It ended our marriage and I basically shut down to even the thought of future relationships for a long period.

Now I have begun to date a wonderful man who I am falling for fast, but at the same time there is great anxiety about being betrayed again and opening myself up to the kind of pain that I went through with my ex. We have been affectionate with one another but have not been intimate and that terrifies me too, as it will take the relationship to a new level. confused:


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Now I have begun to date a wonderful man who I am falling for fast, but at the same time there is great anxiety about being betrayed again and opening myself up to the kind of pain that I went through with my ex. We have been affectionate with one another but have not been intimate and that terrifies me too, as it will take the relationship to a new level.


I can certainly understand your issues. Stay around. There are a lot of people with experience in your situation that can give you some advice on what you're going through.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks Costa, it is weird to be in this predicament over 40 and nervous about dating again and opening myself up to potential betrayal.


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