# Move foward? Going to easy?



## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

On June 26, she fell asleep. I picked up her phone, I remember thinking to myself, its just her friends, its just her friends. I hadn't looked at her phone in over a year.
her: "I wanna get you drunk and take advantage of you...lol"
him: "O i think i like that"
her: "Ur d*ck will be sore"
him: "Ur a$$ will be"
her: "I think my hub set the bar to high as far as me orgasming with anyone else...."
him: "lol....ok"
her: "actually i think its because of the way you are with me, if i actually felt you were into me, i could relax and get into it more"

I called him and he was stupid enough to answer. I then woke her up with my screams. She knew. I threw her some dirty clothes out of the hamper called her mom and pushed her out the door. It took the rest of the night over texts for her to actually admit that she'd had sex with him.

It started last september, it had gone on for 11 months. She was sending him 2300 texts a month, on average. She text him all day on our anniversary, even sent him a pic when we were on the way to dinner that night, she text him on our children's birthday, all three of them 13 year-old, 5 year-old, 3 year-old. She text him in front of me on the couch, in bed, driving, in front of other people, in front of our kids.

It gets worse from there. She came back to the house 5 days later. The lies continued, the remorse was scarce. After everything she's done, and what I've said so far is only the surface, I'm trying to move forward, I'm trying to treat her right and not lash out in anger, when she cries I hug her and hold her.

What am I doing? Part of me want to kick her out and be done, but I know what that will mean for the kids. Part of me wants her back, if I ever truly had her (more on that later). Part of me just wants to scream at her, "what have you done!"

Anyways, first marriage here, she started this while we were in marriage therapy, at about the 5 1/2 year mark. I'm falling apart, I can't eat, I can't work, I can't be who I was any more.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

So she continues to lie to you so in return you hug her when she 'feels' sad over what she has done. 

Ask yourself this: What exactly has been the repercussion of her cheating? 5 day rest at Mom's house while you are home taking care of your children?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

No consequences, no remorse, she cries and YOU feel bad? I don't see this working out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What have you done about the affair?

Have you exposed the OM to his family? Gf/wife?

Have you exposed it to your wife's family? And yours?

How did they meet each other? Have you addressed that situation?

Have you had her take and STD test? Have you had here take a polygraph?

Finally have you. DNA checked your kids?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> I can't be who I was any more.


Sure you can. The mind plays tricks, makes things seem a lot worse than they really are.

Once you realize she's not worth it, you'll shut her out and move on mentally and physically.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Get tested for STD's.
See an Attorney.

You are doing everything wrong. If the roles were reversed would she be acting like you? Her actions show that she has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. Good God man, if you do not respect yourself then who will?

It seems to me that she knows you very well and knew that she could be screwing her lover for almost a year and if you found her you would forgive her anyway so therefore she had nothing to lose by continually screwing another man behind your back. I guess she was correct


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

madcrazy_yo: You have 3 options:

1) Accept that she cuckolded you. There are no repercussions and all is swept under the carpet. If you choose this she will do it again ... and again ... and again until she finds someone to replace your emotional and financial support with. You rub her feet when she is tired and watch the kids. She maybe has pity sex with you but really prefers banging other guys. TAM cannot help you with this option. Find another place to post.

2) Reconcile with her with her proving herself worthy to YOU by her actions, not her words that she is worthy of remaining married to. Your old marriage is effectively dead and you start a new one with her. This is the most difficult option. TAM can and will help with this.

3) Divorce her. TAM can help you get through this. Infidelity is the oldest most ancient reason to dissolve a marriage. Should you choose this option no one who is honest will blame you. Those who do can go jump in a lake. It is your life, not theirs.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

What have you done about the affair?

She has ended it. She no longer has her phone. 

Have you exposed the OM to his family? Gf/wife?

No. I will though.

Have you exposed it to your wife's family? And yours?

Yes. I posted the whole thing on her facebook page. I told everyone. Everyone. Her entire family, and mine. Everything she did.

How did they meet each other? Have you addressed that situation?

They met at her work. He quit. She is in the process of finding another job.

Have you had her take and STD test? Have you had here take a polygraph?

No. No money for either of those things.

Finally have you. DNA checked your kids?

No, and I don't suspect any reason to.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

This is an email she sent him 8 days after i found out:

I wanted to say goodbye to you...Why did you just change your number and not say anything to me? I guess me thinking that you did not care was true all along. I don't know why you couldn't just say it. You did not care enough to even say goodbye to me, you didn't care enough just to tell me to never text you again. If you were trying to spare my feelings, what do you think this does? You not saying a damn thing is worse, much worse. You were my friend OM, someone I cared about and you didn't give a ****. It was a final reminder of what a risked it all for...for nothing, for nobody. He asked me if I cared about you, more than once...I said no. I lied. I guess I didn't realize how much til you were gone. I still think about your stupid ass. I would like a response to this but that is wishful thinking. I am gonna miss the **** out of you...

Always,
WW


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> This is an email she sent him 8 days after i found out:
> 
> I wanted to say goodbye to you...Why did you just change your number and not say anything to me? I guess me thinking that you did not care was true all along. I don't know why you couldn't just say it. You did not care enough to even say goodbye to me, you didn't care enough just to tell me to never text you again. If you were trying to spare my feelings, what do you think this does? You not saying a damn thing is worse, much worse. You were my friend OM, someone I cared about and you didn't give a ****. It was a final reminder of what a risked it all for...for nothing, for nobody. He asked me if I cared about you, more than once...I said no. I lied. I guess I didn't realize how much til you were gone. I still think about your stupid ass. I would like a response to this but that is wishful thinking. I am gonna miss the **** out of you...
> 
> ...


She is not done with him. There is no reason why she is not going to do this again if the OM comes back (unlikely) or if a better version of the OM comes into her life (more likely). You need to protect yourself now as soon as possible. Don't leave your house and start 180. And don't falter. She has broken the trust and hasn't shown any remorse yet. She has to show true remorse before you can even think of R. 

I feel sorry for you. Doing the 180 while you have a child is not easy. But you have to do this for your own sanity and to provide your child with a better role model.

Again, I don't see any true remorse on your WW's part.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

You've been played like a violin. Kids or no kids, if I were you, I'd be leaving.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Why do you want to stay with someone who is not in love with you, who is in love with somebody else?

Why would you want to be her second choice?

She was willing to "risk it all" for him, but he never reciprocated.

Why do you think she wants him to reply to her email? Do you think that if he responded, I LOVE YOU, TOO, let's both leave our spouses and move in together - that your wife would stay with you?

I understand - the kids. You want to do your best to make this work for them. But I hope you will realize sooner rather than later, that she only will truly value you when she realizes she actually may lose you. 

See what she told the other man? _"I guess I didn't realize how much til you were gone."_ This is human nature. We take people for granted until we lose them. Your wife does not feel this way about you at all, because in her mind she has ZERO chance of losing you. First of all, she knows you are so committed to the kids and her that you won't leave. Second, she doesn't think you could get another woman, she doesn't value you or respect you.

The more she believes you are willing to dump her, the more she will value you and respect you.

If you are going to reconcile, do so on your own terms. Tell her if she wants other man, she should make her decision, get out, go to him, and you will gladly get on with your life without her. Tell her you are no one's second choice, you are no one's backup plan, and you will find someone better than her to replace her, no problem. Tell her loyal family men are in high demand, lying cheating men are not.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What did she have to say when you confronted her with that email?

Has she agreed not to contact other man ever again?

What would it take for you to begin divorce proceedings? Do you have a breaking point?


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

No remorse. No consequences. Equals she will do it again. You need to let go of this mentality that you did something wrong or that you have to get her through this. She has to get you through this.

1. She betrayed your love.

2. She betrayed your trust

3. She betrayed her vows

4. She betrayed her family

5. She betrayed your friendship

All that is gone she killed it and has no remorse until she has that you have no marriage. You need to shut down in her and focus on you.

1. Stop holding her

2. Stop I love you

3. Stop talking about anything but kids and finances.

4. Stop being her friend.

5. Tell her you will save the money for an uncontested divorce. You can download the paperwork and start working in it today. 

She killed your marriage without remorse you are performing CPR on a corpse. Keep posting we can get you through this.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> I'm falling apart, I can't eat, I can't work, I can't be who I was any more.


You were OK before you married her, you are OK married to her, and you will be OK if the marriage ends. Life will go on and you will be OK, your kids will be OK.

You can't control her, only yourself. You can tell her what you need, but you can't make her do it. You have to accept that she chose to cheat, now she is going to have to choose to reconcile. Try to come to peace with the past. You can't change it, just do your best going forward, be the best person you can be, the best dad you can be. That does not include allowing anyone to treat you badly or with disrespect.

What have you asked her to do, or what has she offered to do, to help you get over her cheating?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

The email confirms what I stated previously. You are the fall back guy and plan B. If he said to her lets run away together then she would leave you in a heartbeat. You are settling for crumbs. Why should she respect at all after reading this letter you still want to be married to her? Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. It is sad that you do not feel you deserve better than humiliation and scorn.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

Tell his wife ... Like now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

And post his sorry azz on cheaterville
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

The email tells you all you need to know. You are plan B and plan B is never plan A.

You do know she is crying the loss of her OM?

Everything you are doing now is validating what she did.

Start working on you. Get to a point you can leave her. Never deal from weakness.

In her email she says she risked everything. The truth is she has lost nothing.

You need to value yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your best option--kids or no kids---is to move on------she willingly/knowingly/happily risked and threw away her mge, and her kids future----do you wanna stay with this woman

Stop being nice to her---she still has not even let him go---she is actually fighting to try and get him to come back to her-------you are sloppy 2nds, as you have been for the last year

If you are bound and determined to stay---and live in misery---then at least hold her feet to the fire

Put all finances in your name only---cancel all CC's---make sure she knows from now on---she is responsible for her half of all bills--including mtg, car--insurances---necessities of life

The next real question to be answered ---if she stays---why???---she does not love you---so why is she staying?????

Ask yourself---is there really any kind of a mge left---can there ever be any kind of a mge?????

You do what you need to do---but do not make anything easy on her---she has "dissed you" for a long time at every level---and she needs to be accountable


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

To have a chance to recover with a cheater they have to be truly remorseful!! Reading that email shows she is not!! 

Also she acknowledges risking her family for him but continued only to be mad that he hasn't called her back!!

Look I know you want everything to go back to the way they were but no matter how hard you try you need to be prepared that you may not be able to truly recover because she loves the OM not you!!!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*She is gone like yesterday. Bail Out Now... Geronimo![*


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

After that e-mail, there is really only one thing for you to do.

Tell her you are divorcing her cheating a**.

For her to send this, after getting thrown out of the house and being exposed to both your families just shows she has zero remorse for what she has done to you and your family.

See an attorney ASAP and only discuss kids and the divorce proceedings with her. Otherwise do not respond to her at all.

When she sees this, it might finally wake her up to what she has done and what she is losing. 

Only if this occurs will she be in any frame of mind to make trying to reconcile with her worth your time.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

What did she have to say when you confronted her with that email?

she thought i wouldn't be able to find it, and truthfully i didn't for about 10 days. i told her i found it on the phone, and she started crying and getting angry. that night she admitted that she did have feelings for him, that she did care about him. she said it was his personality, he was funny and he didn't take her constant unending stream of negativity seriously. I told her "yah dumbass, its called a fantasy, its called you were a piece of ass and thats it"

Has she agreed not to contact other man ever again?

Yes. She said that the email was a final goodbye. This all happened at her work, a local home improvement store. Guy has seven kids with two other women and a restraining order against him from one, for beating her in front of the kids. Her manager, the HR manager, facilitated the entire affair, by allowing them to go to her house met up and then go to his brothers house. She no longer works with that woman and is no longer talking to her as well. She is still working at the store, but is in the process of looking for another job.

What would it take for you to begin divorce proceedings? Do you have a breaking point?

If she contacted him again. If she is not serious about the promises she made, conselling, a new job, changing things around here.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

You don't get it. You are her second choice. Do want to live the rest of your life knowing you don't make the grade with her. In her eyes the OM is all that. Pure man....everything she wants. You are a stable paycheck who she knows will take her back no matter what she does. She has you pegged.

Is this how you want to live?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Yes. She said that the email was a final goodbye.......... What would it take for you to begin divorce proceedings? Do you have a breaking point?


Firstly, I have serious doubts about it being a final goodbye if he had not dumped her. Also I don't think that she has any idea of what she has put you through. Her focus has all been on her, all of her sorry, all of her concern has been for her and don't see where she has really gave a darn about you (I could be wrong, but I don't think so). 

When is enough, enough? This is a question that only you can answer, for some she has already pegged the divorce meter. For others they would give her chance after chance after chance. You need to decide what it is for you. 

Personally, I think that you need to consult with an attorney, just to get a legal perspective. You don't have to file, but she needs to understand how serious this situations is for you. Next I would plan a get away for a weekend to clear your mind and help give you a little perspective, you have been running on an overdose of adrenaline, which isn't that good for you. Find a buddy and go play golf somewhere, visit someone a couple of hours away, go to a ballgame....something. Tell her the day before you depart that you will not be here for the weekend, that you have consulted with an attorney and need some alone time.

When you return you then need to have a plan to move forward including counseling, boundaries, passwords for phone and other media, no contact with other man, etc. She needs to know she ran this relationship in the ditch and she is one that needs to get it out.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> I threw her some dirty clothes out of the hamper called her mom and pushed her out the door. She came back to the house 5 days later. The lies continued, the remorse was scarce. After everything she's done, and what I've said so far is only the surface, *I'm trying to move forward, I'm trying to treat her right and not lash out in anger, when she cries I hug her and hold her.*
> 
> What am I doing? Part of me want to kick her out and be done, but I know what that will mean for the kids. Part of me wants her back, if I ever truly had her *(more on that later). *Part of me just wants to scream at her, "what have you done!"
> 
> Anyways, first marriage here, she started this while we were in marriage therapy, at about the 5 1/2 year mark. I'm falling apart, I can't eat, I can't work, I can't be who I was any more.


Lack of remorse - "I sent the email because I didn't think you would find it." Is this how she is going to reconcile? Will she see what she can get away with, if she believes you won't find out?

That was a desperate email from her to the other man. She is looking for him to respond. You caught her. Next time she will figure out a way to do it and hide it better. She is not going to just drop it. He was a HUGE part of her life. Maybe the part she cared about the most. She worked with him (full time?). 2300 texts per months, what is that about 80 per day? Every day? First thing she did when she woke in the morning, last thing she did at night? No matter what you were doing, who you were with, wherever you were?

Everyone is focusing on the email because that is the one true insight you have into the way she is thinking right now. She is thinking about other man and hoping he calls her to say he loves her.

It is important to expose the affair to the other man's wife or girlfriend, if he has one.

How did everyone respond to the exposure? How do your and her families and friends feel about this? 

How are the kids handling it?

What is the "more on that later" - "if I ever truly had her?" all about?

Why did it take 8 days for you to find that email? 

Has she apologized to you?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I would definitely start the divorce process now after that e-mail and the obvious lack of remorse. (you can always stop it if things change in the future)

She needs to see and feel that her world is about to come crashing down around her if she does not begin to make some serious changes and put out some serious effort into fixing the marriage she destroyed.

And, btw, you should contact the company HQ and file a formal complaint on the scummy manager she had that facilitated an affair between two of her employees. People like her have no business being in positions of authority since they are so unethical.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

madcrazy_yo said:


> *On June 26*, she fell asleep. I picked up her phone, I remember thinking to myself, its just her friends, its just her friends. I hadn't looked at her phone in over a year.
> her: "I wanna get you drunk and take advantage of you...lol"
> him: "O i think i like that"
> her: "Ur d*ck will be sore"
> ...



There are gaps in your story that needs to be filled in.


The oldest child is 13 y.o. The affair started last year, 5 1/2 years into the marriage. 

The oldest child is not yours, right?

What about the last 2 children?

This is your first marriage, right? Not her first, yes? What's her relationship history?


You should realize that she checked out of the marriage around the 5 year mark. She's already moved on to her lover (who right now has gone quiet on her). Her blatant texting, especially during the anniversary, birthdays, shows she has lost respect for you as a husband and a lover. That she could text her lover in front of you shows she cares not for you. And even in your presence she was constantly thinking and flirting with her lover.

That you are comforting her when she cries (because she thinks she's losing her lover as seen in her email 8 days past D-day) is supreme irony.

I believe you really need to develop an indifference to her. But you cant because you are not able to see the situation as it really is. Perhaps you dont want to see the reality?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Her: "I think my hub set the bar to high as far as me orgasming with anyone else...."


*So she is having a hot, torrid affair with someone who is not as good, sexually, as her husband?* 

Gosh. Cheaters say and do the dumbest things!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

That piece is the only possible relief about this sh1t.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

She worked with him (full time?). 2300 texts per months, what is that about 80 per day? Every day? First thing she did when she woke in the morning, last thing she did at night? No matter what you were doing, who you were with, wherever you were?

Different depts but yes she worked with him.
Everyday, first and last, sometimes after I'd gone to sleep till 3 am.
No matter what.

How did everyone respond to the exposure? How do your and her families and friends feel about this? 

EVERYONE was shocked, no one saw this coming. She had actually been leading the charge against her brother, who is a serial cheater, to condemn him publicly to everyone, while she was doing this.
I've told everyone about the email and everything else, everyone is shocked, they don't understand why she is acting like this.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

How are the kids handling it?

The little ones don't know anything. The oldest knows. She told me she feels her mother threw us all away. She is handling it alright.
Why did it take 8 days for you to find that email? 

It was actually a lot of luck. I had her phone, she sent the email, and it cached on her phone. She changed her password and then deleted the email. Since she changed her password the phone couldn't check back in to delete the email. I took an image of the phone, found the gmail database and decrypted the email.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Has she apologized to you?

Yes. After she sent the email, but before I found it, we went to our first marriage therapy session. Afterwards, she told me to blindfold myself, I did and she drove me to a place, she got out and opened my door. I got out and she told me to take off the blindfold. She had driven me to the place we first met, to where we had our first kiss. She said she was sorry, she said she knew she had hurt me and that she brought me here because she wanted to start over. She said she wanted us


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Is this her first marriage?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

she said she wanted to start over and she wanted us bother to be better people for each other and for ourselves.

Yes this is her first marriage.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

The oldest child is not yours, right?

correct, she is hers from a previous relationship, we've been together since the child was 4 1/2

What about the last 2 children?

last two children are ours.

This is your first marriage, right? Not her first, yes? What's her relationship history?

Yes, my first marriage, and hers. She was in one serious relationship previously, that is where the oldest is from. She does have a history of picking real winners, i guess you could include me in that since im here talking about this stuff with you all.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> *So she is having a hot, torrid affair with someone who is not as good, sexually, as her husband?*
> 
> Gosh. Cheaters say and do the dumbest things!


Yes, that is part of what I'm having trouble getting past though. This guy had five tries and didn't even get close, i know because i restored 13000 texts going back to november when this all started, like this gem:

him: Ur crazy
her: I'm not crazy, i'm just filling a void of some kind. ive realized that i want sex, lots of crazy sex. just not with my husband.
him: lol, thats bad

february:
her: u kno, if you have to ask if you made me c*m, you didn't

She tells me it was only 5 times, in ten months. But she also met him at the gym and local community college parking lots to perform oral sex on him, again about 5 times. A text:

her: i feel like all i am is a mouth to you. i don't know how long i can take that.
him: yah i can see that
her: wtf? you're admitting it?!!
him: yah
her: whtevr ttyl


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

She wrote this letter the other day to me:

Where do I begin…I betrayed you I did the one thing I swore to you that I would never do, and it wasn’t because I knew it was wrong, it was because I knew I would never do it. I was going through something when it all started. I was lost, didn’t know where I was going, what I was going. I was unhappy, I felt alone and you were not there. None of these things are an excuse, there is no excuse that can justify this, I am just stating how I felt at the time.
I told myself I just wanted a friend but I knew where it would lead, I knew the door I had opened. After taking that first step of getting his number I couldn’t turn back, I knew this even before getting his number, I knew I wouldn’t be able to turn back. That day I was weak…maybe it was because we had fought, maybe it was because I was mad, maybe it was because I felt depressed…I don’t remember. 
It started…Her Friend did not agree, and advised against it, reminding me that I advised her against it when she was considering it a few years prior. At the time when I was trying to convince her otherwise, I spoke from my heart, I spoke of reasons why I would never do it… He is your husband, this guy would not be worth it, weigh the consequence, think of the family… I don’t know what made it all change for me, why I became that person that I told myself I would never be, the person I believed you always thought I was. I would get so mad when you would say “If one of us is going to cheat it is going to be you.” “We both know who that would be.” “You will do that not me” and so on. It insulted me that you thought of me like that, that I was always that person back on street name that you met at An old friend of mine’s apartment, that person that had no direction, that person that didn’t give a **** and was irresponsible. I wanted so much for you to see me as the person I knew I was on the inside, the person that was NOT who you thought I was. I was good. 
I asked myself many times what the **** I was doing, I was risking it all for nothing. Why? Why was I doing this? Many times I told myself I was stopping and I would for a while, but then I would see him at work, I wanted to send him a picture I found online, or maybe I just didn’t have anyone to talk to. I say I made him the way he was and that is true. I didn’t want him to develop feelings for me, I needed him to not care because I knew it would end and it would make it easier to end it with someone who was an ass. After the first time he immediately wanted to see me again, I told him it couldn’t be like that. He wanted to buy me a xmas present, I told him no. Once he caressed my hair and I told him I did not like it. Every time he tried to get close to me on an emotional level, I rejected him. I wasn’t going to be with him, I wasn’t going to leave you. I told him that you were much more than he was. That you were a good husband, a great father, an exceptional lover and you treated me like no one ever had or ever would. Right now you are asking yourself “then why did you do this??!” I just don’t know the answer. I thought I was safe, I wouldn’t care for him, I just needed to keep him from caring for me. It kind of backfired on me. I cared and I still did not want him to but a part of me did want him to. I was very bipolar towards him. Sometimes the side that didn’t want him to care came out and sometimes the side that did want him to came out. Whatever side was there, I knew, I always knew, that my heart ultimately belonged to you. 
I never really felt like I deserved you. You were and are so much more than I am or ever will be. I am nothing and now I had made myself even less than that. I made myself the person I always knew you thought I was, I turned myself into that common woman, nothing special about me, weak. As I wrote that last sentence, I thought to myself, I didn’t make myself those things, I always was those things. Hidden behind a facade, a lie, a person I was trying to be. I was trying to be better than the type of people I was around in my past, but I guess I was still that same person. Sometimes when I was alone by myself, I would realize I was that same person. I would especially be reminded of it when I got around people that were actually good people, I felt so much less than them.
I want to be good. I want to be a great person. If I did have any kind of a chance, I threw it all away with what I have done. Everyone knows what I have done and no one will see me as anything other than that now. They know the details, they have a taste of the person I am on the inside now. They see this piece of **** I am.
When this started, when the first time happened, I asked myself “Does this mean I do not love (ME) anymore?” I pondered it for a while. Why would I have done what I always knew I would not. It seemed like a logical reason. Sometimes I still ask myself that. I don’t know anything about love, what it really means, how it really feels, how to show it… The only kind of love I know I am sure of is the love for my kids. I never felt worthy of love. As a kid I remember writing countless letters to myself, all very sad, talking about how I would never be love, that no one would ever love me. I guess it didn’t matter because I wouldn’t see it if it smacked me in the face. I have just always gone by what I thought was right, sometimes I would make wrong choices but I always knew what was right. I went by that more than I went by my heart. Hasn’t always been the best way to go by things. You mind can trick you where you heart never lies. Maybe I should have listened to it.
I know I want this family, I know I want you as my husband, I know I want to be better…these things I know. I have a lot of damage, a lot of things that are rooted so deep, it makes it very hard for me to imagine that I can change it. I have to change the way I see things, the way I see myself, that is where it starts for me. I don’t know how to begin that process and it is draining me thinking about it. 
I have asked myself whether or not I still love you and all I can say is I am still here, I still want to try, I still want to be by your side if you want this person beside you. That has to mean something.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

This was her post on facebook two days after DDay:

I am very against putting my business out there for the world to see and have never done so but in this case maybe I should...I ****ed up. Nothing I do or say can ever change that, all I can do is try my best to prove to the people that really matter in my life, that I can be better and I have learned my lesson. I betrayed the person that held me dearest, the person that I believed I would never find in my lifetime...I have a problem, I see that now. I hope one day he can find it in his heart to forgive me.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She's a self destructive mess. It seems she needs confirmation she's piece of sh1t. Derives some sick pleasure out of it.
Any chance she was sexualy abused as a child?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Yesterday I had enough. After reading the responses here i reached a point where enough is enough. She still works at the place where she started this. She was supposed to get off at 1pm, at 1:37 she called to say she was on her way. at 1:52 she pulled up, i was standing in the driveway, i gave her the phone and told her to either call and quit, or its over. I am not going to be treated like this, this is the third time this week that she's done this. She can spend a single minute to pick up the phone and dial home and tell me she's going to be late. i've told her that i need this. she told me she was busy, i told her that i didn't care, its been 5 weeks since dday, she hasn't picked up a single job application, she hasn't gone on the web once to check job sites, she knew about her conselling appt three weeks in advance, but she chose not to reschedule her work hours, so she cancelled, she was still scheduled to work with, and is still talking to this manager that helped her and egged her on. i layed into her about it two days ago and she reluctantly called and informed the pathetic woman. when she cries, like i stated previously i hug her and hold her, when i cry and break down, and am visably emotionally hurt, she does nothing. i've told her i need her to say she's sorry a million times, i need her to be affectionate, to be physically expressive towards me, she has to help me through this, because she did this.
She is refusing to quit the job, she has bills she says, i took the keys to her car (that i pay for and am owner of), she doesn't have any of our shared debit/credit cards. she sees my demands as trying to control her, trying to make her dependent upon me.

I've given her chances, a chance to find another job or at least try, a chance to prove she is serious about getting help with a therapist, i've let her slide on talking to that, excuse my language, pathetic b1tch at her work, she is surrounded by people who are still friends with this guy.

No more mr. nice guy.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

i dont think she was abused as a child.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Gibberish.......If you take her back your a F$%KING idiot. Plain and Simple. She had a deliberate remorseless sexual affair with the OM on so many levels throughout your marriage. Her self loathing Bu!!$sh!t story is pathetic. Actions speak louder then words. She is stuck with plan B (you) and now has to cover her a$$ to keep you. IMHO

This women doesn't deserve to be trusted again.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes about her true lack of remorse. She is still playing you like a violin. Have you both been tested for STD's?

I am sorry but again her words to you do not match her actions.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

This is not getting any better. Even her letter to you was all about her, it is an attempt to deflect what happened and garner sympathy for her (big red flag). If you decide to reconcile you have a long row to hoe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> She worked with him (full time?). 2300 texts per months, what is that about 80 per day? Every day? First thing she did when she woke in the morning, last thing she did at night? No matter what you were doing, who you were with, wherever you were?
> 
> Different depts but yes she worked with him.
> Everyday, first and last, sometimes after I'd gone to sleep till 3 am.
> ...


Maybe it is how they were raised?:scratchhead:

Maybe she like her SIL, so attacked her brother because of this? 

Ask her how she can be so hypocritical?


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## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Have you told the OMW, if not you really need to do this. It will blow up in her face that there is any chance to reconnect with this guy. This is very important, don't skip this step for the sake of the OMW, she deserves to know what a POS she is with and can deal with her life appropriately.

I also agree with the others, it is her actions not her words that you need to watch.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite all her messages of remorse, her facebook posts, her letter to you, the greatest insight you have into her right now is that email she sent to the other man AFTER she made her "I'm sorry" facebook post.

That email says she is in love with the other man. That didn't change just because you found out about it. 

That is why she is not quitting the job where she still has people she can use to get messages back and forth to other man, who can help her hide her relationship with other man.

I also find it telling that she told you in her letter that she doesn't know if she loves you or not.

You can't control her, she always is free to do what she wants, AND SO ARE YOU. Tell her if she wants to continue working where she had her affair even though she knows it hurts you, that is entirely up to her, and if she wants to continue having an affair, that also is entirely up to her - but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Tell her if she chooses those things, you can and will make your own choices.

Your marriage does not start to improve until she cuts all ties with all the toxic people feeding her damaging viewpoints at work. Trust me, the ones who think she was wrong are keeping silent, the other toxic ones are telling her how she's her own person, how it's her husband's fault, how if her husband were meeting her needs she never would have done this. 

They are not holding her accountable for her actions, they are putting it all on you. Until she gets away from that environment, I don't think your marriage has a chance. It might not anyway.

I think your marriage can be saved. Expose the other man to his wife or girlfriend. Tell your wife that you want to save the marriage, but that she has to do some things to help you move forward. Tell her the list of things you need. Quitting the job, no contact with the other man, no contact with the toxic friends, whatever else you need. If she's not willing to do them, file for divorce.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> This was her post on facebook two days after DDay:
> 
> I am very against putting my business out there for the world to see and have never done so but in this case maybe I should...I ****ed up. Nothing I do or say can ever change that, all I can do is try my best to prove to the people that really matter in my life, that I can be better and *I have learned my lesson*. I betrayed the person that held me dearest, the person that I believed I would never find in my lifetime...I have a problem, I see that now. I hope one day he can find it in his heart to forgive me.


She sent her emotional email to the other man pleading for a response from him AFTER she made this post.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> She wrote this letter the other day to me:
> 
> I have asked myself *whether or not I still love you *and all I can say is I am still here.


The answer was not "no," but it was not "yes," either.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> This is an email she sent him 8 days after i found out:
> 
> I wanted to say goodbye to you...Why did you just change your number and not say anything to me? I guess me thinking that you did not care was true all along. I don't know why you couldn't just say it. You did not care enough to even say goodbye to me, you didn't care enough just to tell me to never text you again. If you were trying to spare my feelings, what do you think this does? You not saying a damn thing is worse, much worse. You were my friend OM, someone I cared about and you didn't give a ****. It was a final reminder of what a risked it all for...for nothing, for nobody. *He asked me if I cared about you, more than once...I said no. I lied.* I guess I didn't realize how much til you were gone. I still think about your stupid ass. I would like a response to this but that is wishful thinking. I am gonna miss the **** out of you...
> 
> ...


I think she continues to lie.

Given the circumstances, that is to be expected.

Your marriage can recover from this, but she needs to have no contact with other man and any of the other toxic enablers.

Quitting the job is key.

I am fairly certain that the toxic enablers at work have enabled her to contact other man while she is working. They have his new phone number, they called him, they put her on the phone, they are helping her to still continue this affair. She still is in contact with other man, otherwise she would have quit that job and would be more willing to help you get over this, be more affectionate, say "I'm sorry" more often, etc.

Get a voice-activated recorder in her car.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Report her HR manager or store manager who is enabling this up the corporate ladder.

Home improvement chains are "family" friendly chains, they promote a family-friendly image. The hgher-ups in corporate headquarters are going to take a very dim view of what has been going on in this store.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

madcrazy_yo said:


> This is an email she sent him 8 days after i found out:
> 
> I wanted to say goodbye to you...Why did you just change your number and not say anything to me? I guess me thinking that you did not care was true all along. I don't know why you couldn't just say it. You did not care enough to even say goodbye to me, you didn't care enough just to tell me to never text you again. If you were trying to spare my feelings, what do you think this does? You not saying a damn thing is worse, much worse. You were my friend OM, someone I cared about and you didn't give a ****. It was a final reminder of what a risked it all for...for nothing, for nobody. He asked me if I cared about you, more than once...I said no. I lied. I guess I didn't realize how much til you were gone. I still think about your stupid ass. I would like a response to this but that is wishful thinking. I am gonna miss the **** out of you...
> 
> ...


Why are you still with her? Does she know that you have this mail ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> he had actually been leading the charge against her brother, who is a serial cheater, to condemn him publicly to everyone, while she was doing this.



WTF??



madcrazy_yo said:


> Has she apologized to you?
> 
> Yes. After she sent the email, but before I found it, we went to our first marriage therapy session. Afterwards, she told me to blindfold myself, I did and she drove me to a place, she got out and opened my door. I got out and she told me to take off the blindfold. She had driven me to the place we first met, to where we had our first kiss. She said she was sorry, she said she knew she had hurt me and that she brought me here because she wanted to start over. She said she wanted us


Bull****!! Manipulation at its best. 



> It was actually a lot of luck. I had her phone, she sent the email, and it cached on her phone. She changed her password and then deleted the email. Since she changed her password the phone couldn't check back in to delete the email. I took an image of the phone, found the gmail database and decrypted the email.


Come on...If OM dumps his wife and contacts your wife, she will leave you in a iffy. her choice of OM tells a lot about her. I will make a guess and predict that her family is utter trash and she had a messy childhood.

Do you realize what she was trying to do with the D-day message ? She was trying to jet him commit to her through subtle manipulation. The same thing she did to you when she took you to the place you both met first.





> her: i feel like all i am is a mouth to you. i don't know how long i can take that.
> him: yah i can see that
> her: wtf? you're admitting it?!!
> him: yah
> her: whtevr ttyl


This woman has serious issues.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, yah! Let's me use my skills of précising long documents, on her letter.

Let me see what she actually wrote...


> I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I...
> 
> I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I...
> 
> ...


I have just removed the other words. All of those "I"s, "mes" and "myselfs" are exactly what she wrote.

I make that 88 places where she addresses herself, where she thinks about herself. Even when she thinks she is thinking about you or her children.

That's not normal. Really, it's not.

I am not qualified to diagnose mental illnesses (way above my basic level counselling courses) but I believe she is showing signs of some form of mental health issue, possibly dating back to her childhood.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Has she apologized to you?
> 
> . Afterwards, she told me to blindfold myself, I did and she drove me to a place, she got out and opened my door. I got out and she told me to take off the blindfold. She had driven me to the place we first met, to where we had our first kiss. She said she was sorry, she said she knew she had hurt me and that she brought me here because she wanted to start over. She said she wanted us




Just a thought, you could ask her to put on a blindfold and drive her somewhere. Stop, open the door... help her out... leave her crap next to her packed in garbage bags... then go home home and leave her cheating and unremorseful a$$ behind.

She has no true remorse, not when she's playing you the way she is.

I'm not sure where you live, do you have access to a public health department? They may be able to help with STD tests? Not sure, but it's worth a call and you should certainly get checked.

I'm not sure how you can reconcile with a spouse that does not show any remorse for heir actions in a case like this.

If I were in your shoes, I would file for divorce.

Good luck
WD


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Do you realize what she was trying to do with the D-day message ? She was trying to jet him commit to her through subtle manipulation. The same thing she did to you when she took you to the place you both met first.


Good insight here.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Yesterday I had enough. After reading the responses here i reached a point where enough is enough. She still works at the place where she started this. She was supposed to get off at 1pm, at 1:37 she called to say she was on her way. at 1:52 she pulled up, i was standing in the driveway, i gave her the phone and told her to either call and quit, or its over. I am not going to be treated like this, this is the third time this week that she's done this. She can spend a single minute to pick up the phone and dial home and tell me she's going to be late. i've told her that i need this. she told me she was busy, i told her that i didn't care, its been 5 weeks since dday, she hasn't picked up a single job application, she hasn't gone on the web once to check job sites, she knew about her conselling appt three weeks in advance, but she chose not to reschedule her work hours, so she cancelled, she was still scheduled to work with, and is still talking to this manager that helped her and egged her on. i layed into her about it two days ago and she reluctantly called and informed the pathetic woman. when she cries, like i stated previously i hug her and hold her, when i cry and break down, and am visably emotionally hurt, she does nothing. i've told her i need her to say she's sorry a million times, i need her to be affectionate, to be physically expressive towards me, she has to help me through this, because she did this.
> She is refusing to quit the job, she has bills she says, i took the keys to her car (that i pay for and am owner of), she doesn't have any of our shared debit/credit cards. she sees my demands as trying to control her, trying to make her dependent upon me.
> 
> I've given her chances, a chance to find another job or at least try, a chance to prove she is serious about getting help with a therapist, i've let her slide on talking to that, excuse my language, pathetic b1tch at her work, she is surrounded by people who are still friends with this guy.
> ...



Don't force her to reconcile. looks like whatever remorse she had is fading away 5 weeks into the D-day. Start preparing for divorce. She sounds broken. I wouldn't be surprised if she is continuing the affair in some form. To not be able to call you this soon after the D-day and using the controlling card to push you back and manipulate you again...

I suggest you read Chris989 threads. Your stories sound similar.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

As long as she doesn't back up her words with actions I'd go full 180 and lawyering up.
Stop holding her!
Just stop.

Is she cries tell her they chochodrile tears. Words mean nothing, actions. Selft pity won't work anymore.

*It's up to her to stop your determination to divorce her. Be sure she get this message very clear.*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You took her phone. Burner phones are cheap. You might want to look for one. 2300 messages a month means a super close relationship. They never stop the first time they get caught.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

she says she had full on sex 5 times---gave him oral 5 times---over the course of a year---you better stick a good sized number in front of the 5's

Look if this woman who still wants to live off of your money---wanted to R---she would be doing things yesterday, to make that R work

Read some of the threads---WHERE THERE REALLY WAS A SPOUSE THAT WANTED TO MAKE THE MGE WORK, AND WAS REMOURSEFUL---You will see that they did the right things on their own, immediately, and w/out being asked

This woman, I am sorry to say is a lowlife----she knew the guy she was with was a physical abuser of women---who just likes to make babies----you are lucky you ain't supporting another child thx to your whoring wife, and that you didn't have a wife that was beat up---who knows maybe she was, and is covering that up also

Your wife knows how to go underground---as she has already unsuccessfully tried it---but she may have learned from that mistake----it is very possible she is not gonna let this POS lover of hers go--------

You have to stop hugging her, holding her, touching her----you have to show action---and that action must show her---that as of right now---you want no part of her

The things she is doing to you, that you don't like---she does them, CUZ YOU ALLOW HER TO

She texted him 80 times a day for a year---she can't even call you, one time, to tell you she will be late

If you want this woman in your life, and I have no idea why you would---D, must go on the table immediately---threat of D---should wake her back to full on reality

She must face actionable reality---not just words, as I said---no more touching her---make her leave the marital bedroom---put all her clothes and her in a small room somewhere in the house

If you wanna stay---D goes on the table---to get her to understand---you will tolerate nothing more from her---and she becomes the best mother possible---doing everything and anything for her kids---she is home with you all the time, cept for work, and necessities----she does not go back to her job--she calls and says I QUIT---you go pick up any belongings she has at the store---you go and tell the woman who set this all up---she just may get a civil suit from you---you don't have to name a tort---just shake her up---she facilitated the destruction of your mge---but in the end---it still all falls on your wife

The letter is a piece of BS---nothing but excuses, and more excuses---nothing about how she wants to make the family work---just her reasons for having sex with another and destroying the mge

my last statement to you----STOP BEING NICE, STAY AWAY FROM HER, AND GO DARK ON HER, AND FILE FOR D


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Madcrazy



> I have asked myself whether or not I still love you and all I can say is I am still here, I still want to try, I still want to be by your side if you want this person beside you. That has to mean something.


Think real hard. Make a decision for you. Do you want o be with someone that does love you? Or is not sure if she loves you???

Your wife is in the fog. And you cannot control her, or what she does, or where she works or who she is with.....

But you can control your actions.

A. Let the OM wife know what happened.
B. Go see an attorney. Set the Divorce proceedings in motion.
C. Clobber your wife on the same day by having her served and exposing the OM. The very same day!

Then when your wife is crying and asks you why, tell her this?

"I do not want to be with a woman who does not love me. Standing by my side means nothing without your love. I deserve better. Your actions thus far to show true remorse for what you have done to me, our marriage and our family are zero.

The divorce will take 6 months to complete. This is your consequence for throwing everything away for a loser.

I cannot control you but I can control myself. I am protecting our family from further pain.

The rest is up to you......"

Drop the hammer Madcrazy. Only then will see if any of the " good" your wife once was remains.

HM64


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Your doing the right thing separate from her if she is not going to leave the job or go to counseling. If your pain means nothing then what kind of wife is ace really? Move on from her do the 180 and star getting the ball moving. Watch her ACTIONS not her words they will not lie.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

madcrazy_yo said:


> She wrote this letter the other day to me:
> 
> Where do I begin…I betrayed you I did the one thing I swore to you that I would never do, and it wasn’t because I knew it was wrong, it was because I knew I would never do it. I was going through something when it all started. I was lost, didn’t know where I was going, what I was going. I was unhappy, I felt alone and you were not there. None of these things are an excuse, there is no excuse that can justify this, I am just stating how I felt at the time.
> I told myself I just wanted a friend but I knew where it would lead, I knew the door I had opened. After taking that first step of getting his number I couldn’t turn back, I knew this even before getting his number, I knew I wouldn’t be able to turn back. That day I was weak…maybe it was because we had fought, maybe it was because I was mad, maybe it was because I felt depressed…I don’t remember.
> ...


This is so full of crap. maybe a couple of lines of truth here and there but the rest of it is utter crap.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> This is so full of crap. maybe a couple of lines of truth here and there but the rest of it is utter crap.


I think, by and large, it is all true. *From her perspective.* But you know? It's still all, pretty much, a load of crap.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Yes, that is part of what I'm having trouble getting past though. This guy had five tries and didn't even get close, i know because i restored 13000 texts going back to november when this all started, like this gem:
> 
> him: Ur crazy
> her: I'm not crazy, i'm just filling a void of some kind. ive realized that i want sex, lots of crazy sex. just not with my husband.
> ...


The bolded part tells me she's gotta have some big self worth issues to put up with a OM who clearly doesn't give a shiet about her while she continuously betrays you. She's complaining about just being a 'mouth' to him so she's not looking for a NSA sex situation. That's totally different (although no better for you, obviously) and if she was looking for NSA she wouldn't be complaining to him about her role as it pertains to him.

IMO she needs help, big time. My mother was one to seek external validation in the same manner as your wife. Mom has been married and divorced three times and adultery was involved with all three of those marriages, usually on both sides. Love my mom but by far she was not a good example at all. Luckily for me, I'm much different than she is and did not go down the same road. 

I believe a large part of why she is likely remaining faithful in her current relationship is a lack of opportunity; she's much older now and there are no OM lined up. I suspect that's by and large what happens when these players "age out." Because before that happened there was still no stopping her. Mom has a LOT of self-worth issues and needed to get help a LONG time ago. She never has and I suspect never will. 

Honestly, at this point, your wife does not sound interested in getting help for herself or your marriage. She wants to rug sweep and continue to do as she pleases. Stop trying to nice her into behaving like a wife because it NEVER works. If truly remorseful she would be doing everything possible to reconcile with you.

Look for a burner phone, they're cheap to get and keep.

Actions, not words. Her word is shiet at this point.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Yes, that is part of what I'm having trouble getting past though. This guy had five tries and didn't even get close, i know because i restored 13000 texts going back to november when this all started, like this gem:
> 
> him: Ur crazy
> her: I'm not crazy, i'm just filling a void of some kind. ive realized that i want sex, lots of crazy sex. just not with my husband.
> ...


Well, I guess you have something to be happy about... sort of.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> This is so full of crap. maybe a couple of lines of truth here and there but the rest of it is utter crap.


It's not crap. It's broken person verbal diarrhea which captures the contempt of self. She was probably emotionally abused or has some other pathological life experience. Not an excuse, but an explanation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Quitting her job should have been the first thing she did. And she didn't. What does that tell you?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Update

I told her quit or divorce. We fought and fought last night. Today I took the kids to a local water park for the day. When I came home I started packing our stuff, because it was clear she wasn't leaving even if D was on the table. The last thing I need in the event of a D is a physical altercation with her to get her out. So I had the kids packed when she got home. I asked her what her choice was. She asked what was in the suitcase, I told her. I asked her again, what her choice was. She said she quit. I told her I thought she was lying, I called and got confirmation from the site manager (not the one who was facilitating the affair BTW).

So, a little bit of very hesitant hope....

Note she needs to find another job, and concentrate on therapy. She was acting incredibly loving towards the kids tonight, that made me happy, but my resolve is still clear, no more nice crap, she does the work or I dump $435 on the filling fee.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm also calling the corporate office tomorrow and lodging a complaint against that pathetic manager who egged her on and helped her out. As far as the OM is concerned, I'm not sure yet. He lives in a different town, I would have to do some serious digging to find him, let alone his girlfriend.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Start the 180 now. She needs to prove that she is worthy of trust and do the heavy lifting.

She is not remorseful yet. That's why she fought to keep her job. You might also want to start MC if possible.

Once she proves to be remotely remorseful, print this out and make her read it. (Don't tell her about this site. This site is your sanctuary.)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/1312096-post194.html


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

No 180------you just plain go DARK on her----no conversation---no nothing

she is not doing what a person who really wants to R, is doing----she is fighting/kicking/screaming in re: to each and every decision she has to make, to rid herself of her lover------that IS NOT THE WAY R IS SPOSE TO WORK

One other thing---you do not leave the home----if this came to a courtroom fight---you would get nailed for ABANDONMENT


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

her text to me today:

You know I did what you wanted me to do and you said absolutely nothing to me yesterday. You don't even give a crap...

ME:
you want me to clap? thanks WW for making the right decision? thanks for finally showing that you're remorseful? wow its amazing that you actually showed that you care about this family and this marriage?
of course i care. that was one action, out of alot that you still need to do WW. and that is the only way we are moving forward, is by you taking action, you words mean nothing anymore, only actions WW.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> her text to me today:
> 
> You know I did what you wanted me to do and you said absolutely nothing to me yesterday. You don't even give a crap...
> 
> ...


What else could you say?:iagree:She needs consequences-which you did-and ic asap to figure out why she is so messed up wow!


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

her: Now you can treat me like complete **** and do whatever the **** you want cuz I now have absolutely nothing.
me: yah WW, sure. that is my mean evil plan. get over yourself, seriously.
her: That is how you are and you damn well know it.
me: no its not. i treat you right. maybe you're mixing me and him up? i mean you didn't seem to mind that he treated you like a worthless wh0re, even when he admitted it. sorry to burst your little fantasy bubble WW, but that aint me. i treat you right.
me: I told you it matters, i told you that your actions are the only things that mean anything. we already went over all this sh1t. seriously, if you were remorseful, you would have done this already, you would have been out there trying to find another job, you would be talking with Marriage Conselor about conselling, im not going to sit around talking to you and touching you while you only do things with a huge fight and then carry around a bunch of bullsh1t resentment afterwards. YOU DID THIS. when you start acting sorry and start making what is really important appearant to the people around you then we can move forward.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Dude. Sorry for the hand you've been dealt. If I were you I would tell her to go back to the job, and just divorce her. Things will go better for you in the divorce if she has her own income stream.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Excellent. You stood up for yourself and threw it back on her. But try not to engage her with emotional language just because she is berating you. Rise above it and try to be firm, to the point, and businesslike with your replies. Set your boundaries distinctly and tell her exactly what you will and will not tolerate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

emotional language?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

to everyone reading/following this thread. the only reason i've made it this far is with your help. i still need it. so please don't stop, not sure what'll happen if i don't have someone on my side.


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## LostAndContent (Feb 22, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> to everyone reading/following this thread. the only reason i've made it this far is with your help. i still need it. so please don't stop, not sure what'll happen if i don't have someone on my side.



You got this dude. Just keep being strong and don't be afraid to walk away if she keeps acting like you're the one who needs to win her back instead of the other way around.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> to everyone reading/following this thread. the only reason i've made it this far is with your help. i still need it. so please don't stop, not sure what'll happen if i don't have someone on my side.


Dear madcrazy_yo,

Everybody here is on your side, even if we don't always agree with each other as to the best course of action and sometimes speak in harsh tones.

I trust you realize that, given her current attitude (resentment that you are finally standing up for yourself and no longer accepting her BS), your marriage stands no chance of surviving. Not until she shows true remorse is there even a glimmer of hope. How will you know? She will stop being resentful. She will become compliant. She will think of and do things on her own to help you overcome this. She will apologize profusely every time you mention her adultery or express your pain. She will stop asking you to stay in your marriage and will tell you that she will understand and accept it you decide to leave it.

If you want to know what a truly remorseful WW sounds like, read DevastatedDad's thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html) and pay attention to the comments from his FWW, ChangingMe.

You're doing well so far, much better than most guys on TAM/CWI who find themselves in your situation. Know that you will get through this and, in a few years at most, your life will be much better (although the chances are you will no longer be with your WW).

Be strong. Stay the course. Do what is best for you and your children and try not to worry about anything else.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> emotional language?


Just don't let her light your fire. Don't engage emotionally. Stay calm and businesslike.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

she is just SO screwed up in the head. i mean, so am i, so are we all, but she just takes the cake.

i mean our marriage was rough before this, i worked two jobs, i was tired and angry a lot. but i didn't do anything to push her into his arms, she made the choice, its a choice i couldve made as well, but i didn't. because i wasn't living in a damn fantasy world. i knew what was important. not to mention the fact that this dude wasn't half the man i was, literally and figuratively. she said he made her laugh a lot and that he didn't take her constant negativity seriously. i told her yah, i'd put with a lot too if it meant free BJ's and anal sex. its just pathetic how she let him treat her. and how apparent it was at the end that she loved him.

she tried to tell me how she told him how much better i was than him. yah i told her, that would be great if i was banging the wife of some dude who was SO much better than me, cause two or three times a month she'd be in the back seat of my car choking on my d*ck.

im trying to hang on, cause i love this woman, because i believe that we can fix it and have a good relationship. thats what i want. im just not going to get there by letting her walk all over me anymore.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Vent your anger at us. She's used to your anger and knows how to stoke your coals. It is how she controls you. So you take that control away from her by not engaging in all that talk about sex, and who was better and all that. If you do the 180 and be neutral with her then she will freak. Try the 180. It will help you distance yourself emotionally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear madcrazy_yo,
> 
> Everybody here is on your side, even if we don't always agree with each other as to the best course of action and sometimes speak in harsh tones.
> 
> ...


THIS. 

She seems entitled and incapable of realizing the repercussions of her choice. I fear that she doesn't value marriage as much as you do. She might continue doing this over and over again. I honestly don't see any change coming in her. Not with this attitude. This is the time for her to reflect. Instead, she is using this time to blameshift and rationalizing her choices. Very bad signals this early in the aftermath. 

Start taking care of the kids and yourself, along with your finances. You say that you love her. That is incorrect. You are still in love with an idea of her. That ideal her never existed. The sooner you realize this, the better. You need to start detaching emotionally. If she proves remorseful, ever, then you can start an emotional bond again. A new one. The old one is deceased and has to be cut off from your life.

Good luck.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> her: Now you can treat me like complete **** and do whatever the **** you want cuz I now have absolutely nothing.
> me: yah WW, sure. that is my mean evil plan. get over yourself, seriously.
> her: That is how you are and you damn well know it.
> me: no its not. i treat you right. maybe you're mixing me and him up? i mean you didn't seem to mind that he treated you like a worthless wh0re, even when he admitted it. sorry to burst your little fantasy bubble WW, but that aint me. i treat you right.
> me: I told you it matters, i told you that your actions are the only things that mean anything. we already went over all this sh1t. seriously, if you were remorseful, you would have done this already, you would have been out there trying to find another job, you would be talking with Marriage Conselor about conselling, im not going to sit around talking to you and touching you while you only do things with a huge fight and then carry around a bunch of bullsh1t resentment afterwards. YOU DID THIS. when you start acting sorry and start making what is really important appearant to the people around you then we can move forward.


You know, part of the problem is that your marriage DID have problems before all this happened. Now all of those REAL problems have to take a backseat to dealing with her affair.

Don't be too discouraged yet. She was at work only yesterday, and while there she was with all her toxic friends and probably even was talking to the other man, if not seeing him. She IS "in love" with him. Remember that email she sent him, that is still how she feels. It will take a few weeks of TRUE "no contact" before she snaps out of this. After about three weeks of true "no contact," your wife should start to show a lot more remorse than she has been showing.

Stick with the message. "You have 5 things to do, none of them are very difficult. Until you do them, I am taking it as a sign that you don't care about me or this marriage." Remember, ACTIONS, not words. It does no good to hear how much better you are than him, and then five minutes later she's emailing him "I guess you really don't love me; I really do have feelings for you."

Anything less than filing for divorce makes you look like a pushover. If she can give another guy oral and anal, and tell the other guy how much she loves him, she has got to be wondering what it WOULD take to get you to leave. Expect her to test your boundaries. Expect her to re-establish contact. If you haven't done it already, she doesn't expect you to do it over a little text asking him how he is. She will wait a few days, maybe a week, then give it another try.

She might still be in contact with him right now. There are a lot of ways to do it without getting caught. Your wife was able to hide the last email from you for over a week. She is good at covering her tracks.

Two jobs, kids, and a cheating wife. You have your hands full. You've got to monitor your wife's communications. She may still be in contact with other man. Or with toxic friends from work. Any connection to other man must be severed completely. Get two or three voice-activated recorders. Put one in her car and the other two in the house in spots where she is likely to talk on the phone when you are not around. If you can, set up a nanny-cam also to see if she is texting anyone. Then you can match the date and time up to the phone bill to see if it shows up - if it doesn't, that means she is using some type of app to hide it. You'll have to do this for a few weeks.

Get the VARs in place. Then call the other man's wife/girlfriend. Call corporate on that toxic boss of your wife's.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You're doing a good job. Listen to Will and the others. Get the VAR and keep the pressure on her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LostAndContent said:


> You got this dude. Just keep being strong and don't be afraid to walk away if she keeps acting like you're the one who needs to win her back instead of the other way around.


This needs to be said again.

Your old lady seems a little defiant, when her marriage is on the line? One would think a lot of submission would be in order to save this....but noooooo your chick phucks with you every step of the way!

At least thats what I'm getting from this thread.


Granted my old lady thru alot of blameshifting around, but at the end of the day i was done with her cheating @ss. It was her that wanted it and it was her that submitted to me, no matter what it was, it was all under my terms.

I figure if I could push Mrs. the-guy away with my cheater police bull sh!t then at least she would have to put her money were her mouth was....you know (we all heard it) "I'll do anything"......

Well my friend, the 1st order of business here would be to shut her pie hole and take whats coming to her......but then again ....did she realy mean "I'll do anything to fix this/make it work"??????


Hell man, she makes it sound like your the one that comitted adultory!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Of course he made her laugh, and her esteem was stoked by him---he wanted your woman, and he got her-------by the way, is that what you love about her---that she gave herself to this guy for 10 months---while you worked your butt, off to provide for your family---what is it that you really want---do you really love her, for what she is--or do you not wanna uproot your life-----it seems it would be pretty tuff to really wanna be with a woman, who fights you at every turn, in re: saving the mge, and keeping her kids in a good situation

Her having fun with her lover---that was all Disneyland---they had NO reality---they never had to make sure there was enuff money to pay the mtg---to worry about taking the car in for servicing---to make sure the toilet flushes properly---to haul the kids around----they HAD NO REALITY---no one in an A---has reality---so of course it's all wonderful---and then she has to leave the backseat of the car, where she just gave him a bj, and come home to you and face all those problems---how could you have any kind of a chance

It's what mge is all about--and its what good loyal morale responsible people do day after day---no matter what--

-how do you love someone who spits on that, who spits on her vows, spits on her ring, spits on her kids----AND REPLACES YOU WITH ANOTHER MAN

Why didn't she show the toxic woman at work, who was egging her on into the A, her wedding ring, and say to her, "I AM A MARRIED WOMAN WITH KIDS, what is wrong with you woman, why are you trying to destroy all those lives"---but this woman you seemingly love---she didn't do that did she---what she did was jump into some car, or go somewhere, present her backside to him, and said---drive it home, its what I prefer to my H., and kids----tell me again--is this the woman you really truly love


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

She sounds like a complete narcissist. Do yourself a favor and keep a VAR on yourself when around her. I wouldn't put a fake domestic violence claim past a woman like this.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

last night, seemed promising. she told she was sorry, she said she wanted to do the right things and that she wants this to work. then this morning, i reviewed the VAR from yesterday, she contacted her enabling manager at work to "get her check" and proceeded to have a long drawn out conversation about the ultimatum i gave her. i called her on it and she lied, saying they only spoke about the last check thing.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Yesterday I had enough. After reading the responses here i reached a point where enough is enough. She still works at the place where she started this. She was supposed to get off at 1pm, at 1:37 she called to say she was on her way. at 1:52 she pulled up, i was standing in the driveway, i gave her the phone and told her to either call and quit, or its over. I am not going to be treated like this, this is the third time this week that she's done this. She can spend a single minute to pick up the phone and dial home and tell me she's going to be late. i've told her that i need this. she told me she was busy, i told her that i didn't care, its been 5 weeks since dday, she hasn't picked up a single job application, she hasn't gone on the web once to check job sites, she knew about her conselling appt three weeks in advance, but she chose not to reschedule her work hours, so she cancelled, she was still scheduled to work with, and is still talking to this manager that helped her and egged her on. i layed into her about it two days ago and she reluctantly called and informed the pathetic woman. *when she cries, like i stated previously i hug her and hold her, when i cry and break down, and am visably emotionally hurt, she does nothing. i've told her i need her to say she's sorry a million times, i need her to be affectionate, to be physically expressive towards me, she has to help me through this, because she did this.*
> She is refusing to quit the job, she has bills she says, i took the keys to her car (that i pay for and am owner of), she doesn't have any of our shared debit/credit cards. she sees my demands as trying to control her, trying to make her dependent upon me.
> 
> I've given her chances, a chance to find another job or at least try, a chance to prove she is serious about getting help with a therapist, i've let her slide on talking to that, excuse my language, pathetic b1tch at her work, she is surrounded by people who are still friends with this guy.
> ...




In future avoid this, this will only make you weak infront of her eyes. You need not ask her to a say sorry, it should come automatically when she realizes what she did. She still didnt get that and trying to manipulate you in big way.

Her blindfolding you and taking to the place you first met was classical manipulation tricks. Her emails and statements all are nothing but manipulation.

She is not remorseful, she is in manipulation and damage control. I dont believe the no sex, in ten months only five times, when they are meeting regularly, when they had opportunity..REALLY? She is minimizing. She is still in TT.

Do the 180 and do the STD test. Also do a paternity test on your children.Ask her about the paternity of your children to show her how much you distrust her.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> last night, seemed promising. she told she was sorry, she said she wanted to do the right things and that she wants this to work. then this morning, i reviewed the VAR from yesterday, she contacted her enabling manager at work to "get her check" and proceeded to have a long drawn out conversation about the ultimatum i gave her. *i called her on it and she lied, saying they only spoke about the last check thing*.




You are wasting your time in R. sad


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> You are wasting your time in R. sad


:iagree:

With no remorse, there is no R. She has no remorse. If she really wanted to make the marriage work, she would quit lying to you!


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

i've been lying to her a bit too. not excusing or saying that its alright how she is lying. but i still have the sim card from her phone, i trashed the phone, but kept the sim card to see if he tried to contact her. i lied about that.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> i've been lying to her a bit too. not excusing or saying that its alright how she is lying. but i still have the sim card from her phone, i trashed the phone, but kept the sim card to see if he tried to contact her. i lied about that.


Police officers lie to criminals all the time to get them to spill the beans on a crime. The Courts have ruled that it is okay for cops to do this as long as it solves the crime. 

In your sittuation I would not feel too bad about it. Who is paying for the phone service?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

yeah, i know about how subverting people's miranda rights to use the evidence in court to impeach witnesses and such, doesn't make it right. i fighting to hold on here. really fighting.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Ok, you are really fighting...but what about her???

What in her actions actually show she will re-committ to the marriage?? 

She needs to do the heavy lifting, not you.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> yeah, i know about how subverting people's miranda rights to use the evidence in court to impeach witnesses and such, doesn't make it right. *i fighting to hold on here. really fighting.*


Why are you fighting it?

Are you scared to let go? Scared of the unknown? 

Have you ever considered that you might actually be happier without her in your life?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your Nice Guy is screaming at you to tell her the truth. But what would happen if you do that? Think about it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK, here's what I would do:-

Arrange for some proper counselling for your wife. Psychiatric rather than a marriage counsellor.

And the OM gets to go on Cheaterville. As does the idiot site manager who facilitated the affair.

After all, why would he facilitate her affair? Because he wanted a piece of her, too. Has your wife figured that out, yet? If not, it might be worth mentioning this to her.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

turnera said:


> Your Nice Guy is screaming at you to tell her the truth. But what would happen if you do that? Think about it.


His wife cheats repeatedly and nastily with a coworker behind his back, shows nothing but defiance and contempt towards him...

And he's feeling bad about swiping a puny simcard? 

Really?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> i've been lying to her a bit too. not excusing or saying that its alright how she is lying. but i still have the sim card from her phone, i trashed the phone, but kept the sim card to see if he tried to contact her. i lied about that.


You're doing OK. Given the circumstances, the conversation with the enabling manager was to be expected. Keep monitoring. She has to go no contact with all of those people who encouraged her as well as the other man. After a few weeks of no contact, she will start to get over it. Right now she is mourning a lost love - a relationship that she had for 11 months, as well as being the center of attention at work with all the toxic enablers around her giving her a sense of excitement and drama over the affair. Cheating is secret, and workplace romances also are secret, so it was like double the excitement. 

It's obvious to me that there was another dynamic involved here, maybe even more important than the cheating, and that was all the "glamour" she felt of being the "it" girl at work, the one who was the center of all of the drama and conversations.

Now that she has her last check, she has no more reason to talk to any of those people. Keep monitoring. Don't give away how you know things, just tell her you know. Let her think you have a spy feeding you info from inside the workplace. Expect more of the same for the near future, with it gradually fading away and getting better over the next three weeks. Now is the most important time to monitor and nip any renewed contact in the bud.

Stay strong. You are doing OK.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Will_Kane said:


> You're doing OK. Given the circumstances, the conversation with the enabling manager was to be expected. Keep monitoring. She has to go no contact with all of those people who encouraged her as well as the other man. After a few weeks of no contact, she will start to get over it. Right now she is mourning a lost love - a relationship that she had for 11 months, as well as being the center of attention at work with all the toxic enablers around her giving her a sense of excitement and drama over the affair. Cheating is secret, and workplace romances also are secret, so it was like double the excitement.
> 
> It's obvious to me that there was another dynamic involved here, maybe even more important than the cheating, and that was all the "glamour" she felt of being the "it" girl at work, the one who was the center of all of the drama and conversations.
> 
> ...


Let her know you know she is lying. Just do not let her know how you know. Imply what she said ,is not what you heard from others, and is not what happened. The biggest point is that you let her know you believe the other source and do not believe her. She has cheated and lied, she needs to know nothing she says can be taken as true without proof.

You can even say, "So you are saying to my face that you did not say anything to mgr about blah blah blah , like I have been told you did?" If she still denies it, simply shake your head and walk off. She will get the message that you know she is lying without revealing how you know.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

your wife being dishonest about the phone call with her enabling manager indicates that she still doesn't get it and does mot see you or the marriage as a priority. She is not remorseful. Sorry the cat is out of the bag... probably.

You must continue the monitoring if you are trying to get to a spot where R can work. She cannot be honest with you at this point. I think you have every right to hang on to the SIM card. And never divulge your source of information.

If she can accept her actions and demonstrate true remorse then you have a shot at making R work. Otherwise, you are pissing in the wind. 

Whatever you do, stay strong!! Also, take care of yourself as much as is possible.

Good Luck
WD


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Madcrazy, sorry for your loss of your marriage. Better things may come in time, but right now, you're at war. You are getting good advice on how to fight it.

What I would like to offer you is an observation from my own fight. I fought like mad to change my wife, to change what happened. The turning point in my fight came, as far as I can tell, when both me and my wife realized that I could and would do perfectly fine without her.

Get yourself to that point, and change will come. You will also be well prepared if it doesn't.

Good luck to you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> she is just SO screwed up in the head. i mean, so am i, so are we all, but she just takes the cake.
> 
> i mean our marriage was rough before this, i worked two jobs, i was tired and angry a lot. but i didn't do anything to push her into his arms, she made the choice, its a choice i couldve made as well, but i didn't. because i wasn't living in a damn fantasy world. i knew what was important. not to mention the fact that this dude wasn't half the man i was, literally and figuratively. she said he made her laugh a lot and that he didn't take her constant negativity seriously. i told her yah, i'd put with a lot too if it meant free BJ's and anal sex. its just pathetic how she let him treat her. and how apparent it was at the end that she loved him.
> 
> ...


Madcrazy

You need to communicate with your wife.

The angry comments back and forth accomplishes nothing.

So you stop it and have your wife stop it too.

Then sit down and discuss what you both want out of your marriage.

She goes first.

Then find a good counsellor to help both of you.

HM64


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Get into counseling immediately. She thinks that you will hold this over her head for the rest of your life and keep punishing her for it.. It is people like her that are the most paranoid


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> On June 26, she fell asleep. I picked up her phone, I remember thinking to myself, its just her friends, its just her friends. I hadn't looked at her phone in over a year.
> her: "I wanna get you drunk and take advantage of you...lol"
> him: "O i think i like that"
> her: "Ur d*ck will be sore"
> ...


uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh wait a minute. So you find out your wife is cheating and to pull off awesome affair busting. 
kick her out....check
gather evidence.... check
expose to family friends...... maybe you should.
go dark and let her see what her life would be like without you...... no I let her come back home and I held her.

My friend the nice act isn't going to help. You are seething inside. Pretending right now is not going to help. And your wife who banged another man and betrayed you,, well she will just have to deal with it for awhile. The worst thing you can do is talk right now because your emotions are everywhere. 
I am willing to bet that the entire time she was out of the house she was calling, texting , and talking to the OM. You still haven't ensured the affair was over. kicking her out was great but she wouldn't be allowed back into my life until she proved that she was done 100% no contact with the OM or men in her life. After all it has been an entire year. my friend the last thing you need to be doing is just talking. Please lookup "the 180" someone will no doubt post the link. You need to ensure that this affair is really over and this isn't just a false reconciliation to secure her life so she can go out and reconnect with the OM.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Things are just not going so well still. Not sure what i expect day to day honestly. when we have sex she holds back, wont do oral, because she says that she doesn't want me to treat her differently in bed, because she thinks i think bad things of her. Also she wanted to get a phone, i didn't really want her to, so i told her to buy it herself, her parents are helping her, so she ordered a phone. this morning i told her to cancel the order, that i am not ready for her to have a phone. she flipped. i told her this is the way its going to be, my emotions are a wreck, and last night it didn't really register with me. im not ready to see her on a phone, after everything i know now. im not ready for her to ignore our children to be on facebook or whatever. she is fighting this just as hard as the rest.

part of me doesn't want to fight her on this, or much else anymore. yesterday, she said the kids are bugging her, now that she's not working or cheating, she has to deal with the fact that all three of them do not take her seriously as a parent, none of them listen to her. this problem existed before the affair, she does not discipline any of them, only threatens to "tell dad". then she says "i wish i was a kid, with no responsiblities." i told her she just got done being a kid for the last year. anyways, that is where we are, i feel she needs to prove to me that im not second best in bed but she withholds certain aspects, im not ready for her to have a cell phone, and im not happy with her contribution or lack thereof to the parenting duties.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

mad, she should be kissing your feet at this point. Just the fact that she thinks she shouldn't have to should tell you all you need to know. All she is doing is biding her time until you're not looking again so she can go out and find another guy on the side.

Have you no respect for yourself?


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

yesterday she flipped also, because my gmail account wasn't cached on the home computer, i didn't change my password but it just wasn't cached. also, Facebook required me to change my password about 4 days ago, added a frickin 1 to the end of my password. she calls me up irate and i give her all my passwords and tell her the truth. she changed her facebook password, and says she did it cause she was mad.

i hate being around her now. i wont let her sleep in the bed with me. she acts like because we have sex sometimes everything should be good, and that i shouldn't be angry at her the morning after and the day after.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Wait - she blows up wanting access to YOUR accounts and you don't have access to hers?????

Ummmm...there is something seriously wrong with that. Tunera nailed it. As soon as this is swept under the rug she will be out again doing her shenanigans. 

In order for this marriage to work (from her point of view) you need to just sit back and suck it up. Let her do what she wants. Is that what you want?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

madcrazy_yo said:


> she changed her facebook password, and says she did it cause she was mad.


No, she didn't. She did it to get back to her level of deceit, and because she knows you won't do anything about it.


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## LostAndContent (Feb 22, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> yesterday she flipped also, because my gmail account wasn't cached on the home computer, i didn't change my password but it just wasn't cached. also, Facebook required me to change my password about 4 days ago, added a frickin 1 to the end of my password. she calls me up irate and i give her all my passwords and tell her the truth. she changed her facebook password, and says she did it cause she was mad.
> 
> i hate being around her now. i wont let her sleep in the bed with me. she acts like because we have sex sometimes everything should be good, and that i shouldn't be angry at her the morning after and the day after.


Dude. Stop being a doormat. Seriously. Leave her. Hand her divorce papers and leaver her. She's withholding sex acts because she doesn't want you to treat her differently in bed? SHE is demanding your passwords? As if you've done anything wrong? She changes her password and makes you wonder whether she's cheating again, and claims she did it because "She's mad"? 

How is this even a question? Leave her. You deserve better. You can get better. And seeing their dad treated like a dog without doing anything about it isn't setting a good example. You have to leave her. She know's in her heart that you'll stay with her no matter what she does, so she has no incentive to change. She's going to treat you like dirt. Yell at you for punishing her for something that's "In the past" and then one day you'll find out she's cheating again. Or you won't find out, and will continue being miserable. 

Maybe when she sees some concrete consequences of her actions, that she's actually going to lose you, and will turn everything around. Let her try to win you back after you're both single.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

problem is that she doesn't have a job now. if its divorce i want to be able to see my kids and not have to pay her huge amounts of money every month.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

1. She did sexual acts with him she will not do for you and she is trying to R?

She is not Remorseful and is not trying to "R".

You are her 2nd choice and when she finds another you will be going through this again.

Do the 180, Separate your finances, see an attorney and get ready it is over because she does not care for you.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I can't understand why you have a problem with her at all. 

From what you've described, she sounds positively lovely.


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## LostAndContent (Feb 22, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> problem is that she doesn't have a job now. if its divorce i want to be able to see my kids and not have to pay her huge amounts of money every month.


Tell her to go back to her poison manager and get her job back because you're divorcing her and she'll need the money. Go in to her manager personally and ask that she be given her job back because you've decided you don't want to be married to her anymore. Then go back to your soon-to-be-ex and say "hey, I talked to your manager. She's willing to give you your job back so I won't have to pay as much alimony when I divorce you. Also, I'm divorcing you." 

Don't use money as an excuse to "Give her just one more chance" over and over again. Heck, just hand her a bunch of applications and say "Hurry up so I can divorce you."


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## LostAndContent (Feb 22, 2013)

There is a hamster who lives in your head. He runs in his little wheel and comes up with reason after reason why you shouldn't move forward with the divorce. "If I divorce her before she finds a new job, it'll be bad for me financially." "She's the one who cheated and left, I'm not going to let her make me the villain by claiming I'm the one who chose to divorce." "I want the kids to know I've done everything I could to save the marriage" "If I initiate the divorce, she'll think I don't love her and want her back" "We shouldn't ruin the kids summer with this drama, I'll file in fall" "I don't want to ruin the kids grades by putting them through that drama during school. I'll file during summer vacation." "I'll file once taxes are done." "I'll file when my uncles out of the hospital" "I'll file tomorrow. My feet hurt today."

If you don't want to file. Don't. But don't mistake why you're putting it off. You used to love this woman. You still think of her as the woman you fell in love with. You don't want to give up. 

What's more. She's beaten you down over the years so much that you don't realize how much better you can do. She makes you think you have to put up with it, because you have no other option. 

Once you acknowledge that these are your real reasons for not filing, it'll be easy to file, because these reasons are stupid. But as long as you're willing to hide behind minor reasons and keep thinking "I'll just give her one more chance to be the woman I love, because I can't divorce her until she gets a job anyway." then you're just going to keep putting it off forever.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> when we have sex she holds back, wont do oral, because* she says that she doesn't want me to treat her differently in bed*, because she thinks i think bad things of her.


So the woman who wrote those texts, who did those things pretand you are going to settls to vanilla sex?
She has reverse madonna wh0re complex. Don't let her to cheat you on this too. There will be no limits. Her sense of entitlement and delusions are...


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm preventing her from doing things. i'm trying to control her, and everything, i'm demanding all these things from her. a marriage wont work like this she says.

she spoke with her mother, and she agrees, she said.

her father cheated on her mother before they were married, while she was pregnant with their son, my wife's brother. i asked her point blank, how she got through it, she told me she would just take bong rips until she didn't think about it any more. wait, uhm, didn't you just say you were pregnant?

i told her to go get some applications, we're divorcing.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> I'm preventing her from doing things. i'm trying to control her, and everything, i'm demanding all these things from her. a marriage wont work like this she says.
> 
> she spoke with her mother, and she agrees, she said.
> 
> ...


Glad that you came to your senses. It is going to be hard initially, but you will never know how good it can be until and unless you get out of a terrible situation.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Follow thru with filing. She will likely call you because she is expecting a bluff. 

As far as her and her mom thinking that it is no way to have a marriage while you are trying to control her 

I would respond that it is not a marriage when she has OM inside her.

You really do deserve better. No one deserves the crap you are describing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

She said this:


madcrazy_yo said:


> Yes. *She said that the email was a final goodbye.* This all happened at her work, a local home improvement store.


But wrote this:



> I still think about your stupid ass. *I would like a response to this but that is wishful thinking.* I am gonna miss the **** out of you...
> 
> Always,
> WW


Her "final" goodbye sound like she was fishing to me.


She is not ready to R. I know you just said you are heading to a D and to be honest, that's what I would do BUT don't be shocked in a couple of months (maybe sooner) you start to see real remorse from her when it all becomes real to her.

Right now your anger (even though justified) is part of her own justification for cheating. She may think you are an a-hole so you deserved it and every time you blow up at her it reinforces that. I'm not saying be nice (on the contrary) but change to more indifference. Stop acting like you care what she does anymore so she does things on her own instead of giving in to your demands.

Defuse your anger (hit the gym) and leave it up to her to save the M if it can be saved. She broke it, she needs to fix it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

She still has a thing for her lover---she did things for him she will NOT do for you---she won't do oral for you---she gives you a lame excuse---it seems the oral is ONLY FOR HER LOVER---not for her H

No she doesn't get a phone----she got into huge trouble having a phone, and she does not need one-----

Up till 15 yrs ago no one had phones---so she can get along quite well, without one.

Either D---or hold her feet to the fire and make her do what you need to satisfy you in a R situation---if she fights you---just D her---this is not worth it-----basically your mge is gone---suck it up---get your settlement and move on-----she will just continue to make you miserable---and eventually she will justify to herself that she can cheat again------this is the woman you now live with---she is not a wife, nor a mother---DELETE HER


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

It is very sad that your WS is begging for this guys attention. I can't figure it out - she says to the guy, I'm just a ***** to you and he agrees. YIKES!! This is very very sad but I think your marriage should end.

I rarely agree with reconciliation but sometimes I do. NOT THIS TIME.

UGG, how do we get mixed up and fooled by these people??

Oh, and she is not over the dude at all.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> What am I doing? Part of me want to kick her out and be done, but I know what that will mean for the kids. *Part of me wants her back, if I ever truly had her (more on that later).* Part of me just wants to scream at her, "what have you done!"
> 
> Anyways, first marriage here, *she started this while we were in marriage therapy, at about the 5 1/2 year mark*. I'm falling apart, I can't eat, I can't work, I can't be who I was any more.


What do you mean, "if I ever truly had her (more on that later)"?

Were you in marriage therapy at the time she began her affair last fall?


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## soulconnection (Jul 10, 2013)

Wow, I just read all of this post/comments. Intense! It reminds me of my brother and how wife but she ended up also being on prescription pills. My brother is still with his wife and right now it seems like his wife is in fairy tale land. She's constantly posting about how great he is and how happy she is spending time with her kids...

Unfortunately, after all that went down, u are lucky that she is still not acting appropriately. I love my sister in law but I believe my brother will go through this mess all over again in the future. Better to hurt now and be over it then to let it seem ok and have a repeat in history.

Really sorry!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

File for divorce and 180. Detach. But tell her that she is free to show affection, build trust. Really it's up to her. Separate finances. 

Re: oral sex
Tell her that women do sexual things with men to show intimacy and affection. Men take that as an affirmation of love when they love their partner. It gives them a good feeling about their relationship. Giving them to another man gives a bad feeling. Of course, if having sex with you is not pleasurable, then your marriage is not worth saving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

As others have said, She does not care about you in this marriage, you are an item which she uses for money. Strip off the ATM shirt and rebuild your life.

Why settle for misery?

Is she really worth the effort is she does not care?

If she does not care to do the Heavy Lifting and holds it against you, what do you think is going to happen as time goes by? 

You know the answer.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

What do you mean, "if I ever truly had her (more on that later)"?

Since the beginning i've ignored the red flags. there is a huge pile of them just sitting here now, showing me that this is really my fault. We had our first date, dinner and movie, went back to her place, hugged, touched, kissed. Then i said goodbye and went out of town to pick up a friend, he car had broken down in Modesto. When i got to my friends parents house, i called her and we talked on the phone for a couple hours, eventually said goodnight and then when i dropped off my friend the next day i stopped by her place and we talked. she eventually told me that after we'd gotten off the phone, she went to her married neighbors house and had sex with him.
Fast Forward
Two months into our relationship, her and her daughter are living with me, we're together. We've fallen in love....I come to find out she's going on yahoo chat rooms and showing random dudes her boobs and other things while im at work/school. i told her that was it. told her to get her sh1t and get out. she didn't take it that well. she went to the kitchen and pulled a knife. i remember this crystal clear, she stood there with the knife and looked at me, i told her if she used that she better kill me, cause if she stabs me, she wont walk away from this. she turned the knife on herself and started cutting her arm, i went and wrestled the knife away from her. she jumped on me and i threw her off me. it took awhile but she eventually left.
two weeks later
she came by, i was partying with some friends, i said hell no and slammed the door in her face. she got angry and smashed the living room window. i sat there the rest of the night thinking this crazy b1tch was gonna come crawling through the glass and stab me, i stayed up all night, i've never been so happy to see the sunrise.
Got a restraining order against her, (fun fact: the judge who signed off on the restraining order is the same judge who married us)
Things were bad, i took her back, other bad stuff has happened, but i mean really, after reading all this, do you need any more?
Have i ever really had her? I like to think so, but i harbored the anger and resentment from all this stuff for years, until the beginning of last year when we went to the first marriage conselor, she NEVER took responsibility for the things she did. always saying that we weren't together when she had sex with her neighbor, that the guys on yahoo chat were thousands of miles away, that she wasn't really going to do anything with the knife, that she didn't mean to break my window. Until we went and i told her, she needed to take responsibility or i was never going to get over these things. she did, and she said she knew how hard it was and that she was sorry and glad that i was able to still be with her. So i did finally get past those things, they are still there, but they dont bother me as much, i don't seethe with anger all the time because of them.

Were you in marriage therapy at the time she began her affair last fall?
Yes, we started in August, got his phone number and started texting him in september, he'd be flirting with her and she had been allowing it since july. in november we agreed that SHE needed to go to IC, she has a lot of issues, she agreed, but never went.

fast foward to June 26, me picking up her phone and KNOWING that there was going to be nothing, i knew it....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow, good riddance!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Wow!
Really f'ed up in her head. No amount of therapy will change that.
Cut your losses man, stop the nonsense, get away from her toxicity, cut the soul hemorrhage for good. ASAP.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> What do you mean, "if I ever truly had her (more on that later)"?
> 
> Since the beginning i've ignored the red flags. there is a huge pile of them just sitting here now, showing me that this is really my fault. We had our first date, dinner and movie, went back to her place, hugged, touched, kissed. Then i said goodbye and went out of town to pick up a friend, he car had broken down in Modesto. When i got to my friends parents house, i called her and we talked on the phone for a couple hours, eventually said goodnight and then when i dropped off my friend the next day i stopped by her place and we talked. she eventually told me that after we'd gotten off the phone, she went to her married neighbors house and had sex with him.
> Fast Forward
> ...


Whoa this one is a no brainer-sigh-get out! Sorry bro.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

it hasn't been all her.
november 2010, i came home very very very drunk. she'd been snapping at me all day because she knew i was going drinking with my friend. so she calls me up to come home and i do. i get there and she says she's leaving, i lost my temper, i had to come home and not hang with my friend for one damn night, just so i can come home and watch the kids (note: she was going to leave our children alone with an obviously very drunk person) while she went out with her friends. i slapped her. no excuses for this, doesn't matter what she'd done. that was the last time i ever drank, it'll be three years on november 13. she did not tell me to stop, i stopped because i understood what i'd done.
january of this year, i lost my job, got caught looking at porn on a work computer. stupid stupid stupid. i can say i was because we weren't having sex more than once ever 6-8 weeks, i could say a lot of things, but none of them matter. after that happened, i knew i had a problem, i started going to sexaholics anonymous, i stopped looking at porn, i started going to therapy, i started dealing with the emotions that i would ignore by acting out sexually with porn and masturbation. im almost 5 months "sober" haven't acted out or watched porn since march 7. again, i did all this stuff on my own, because i knew, i got a better job in april. i paid off a ton of our debt, i promised her i'd never to that again. and i haven't. it is not easy, there are triggers everywhere, i can hear the name of a city and know the porn stars who live there, i can hear a girls name and all the images and videos play out in my head. in church the other day i was thinking of some HARDCORE stuff, i was like wtf? how did that get there?
my addiction has been even more difficult now, because in my head i feel like i have something to prove to her, in my head my addiction says just get along with her tonight so that we can screw her.
its pretty pathetic.

so anyways, there it is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, you are experiencing your 'second chance.' Good for you. Everyone deserves one.

The point is, she is a certifiable MESS and needs serious, long-term therapy to MAYBE become a regular person. Let her do that. Alone. Let this be her consequence, and maybe that'll be enough to get her to do some introspection.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Glad to hear you hold yourself accountable of you own issues. Keep hanging there. Don't use this nightmare to give you any excuse.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mad you have owned it your w has not and needs therapy.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

she keeps saying these things.
I wanna do the right thing
I feel like you do want to talk to me or be around me
I pretty sure im going to lose you
I look at you and when your mood changes, instead of wondering what caused it, i know, it was me.

But then when i ask her questions that I need to understand. like:

You said you enjoyed doing things with him. Why did you enjoy meeting him to give him BJs?

She flips out, says all kinds of stuff and goes to bed.

we went to marriage therapy and her and the therapist look at me like im the crazy one for wanting to have sex with her, and wanting her to do with me what she did with him.

i want her to find a damn job, so she can find her own place. i loathe being around her, even in the dark when i wake up and look over to where she's sleeping i feel sick to my stomach.

over the weekend i really thought about how she gambled with my life by doing all these things unprotected with him. im going to go get tested.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Sorry dude but defensive and angry behavior coupled with a lack of empathy on her part doesn't come close to the word remorseful.

Aren't you tired of seeing her boring ass cheaters face every morning? I'm sure you are. I mean, really look at her, she isn't even that attractive anymore. Not as attractive as your secretary or any of the hundreds of attractive women around town. Best part, you hit it off with one of these women, you might just be getting all the upside down blowjobs your wife gave her OM.

You can leave her and say you tried or you can cheat on her. But I vote for the first option because I sure wouldn't want to cheat and then get up in the morning and still see her ugly face. Total buzz kill.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

madcrazy_yo said:


> she keeps saying these things.
> I wanna do the right thing
> I feel like you do want to talk to me or be around me
> I pretty sure im going to lose you
> I look at you and when your mood changes, instead of wondering what caused it, i know, it was me.


These are the quotes from the Cheater's Guide to Fake Remorse.



madcrazy_yo said:


> But then when i ask her questions that I need to understand. like: You said you enjoyed doing things with him. Why did you enjoy meeting him to give him BJs? She flips out, says all kinds of stuff and goes to bed.


This is the REAL her. Don't you dare question her actions and if you don't buy the fake remorse then screw you, I'm removing myself from this conversation.

Actions, not words.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

More insanity. Now it was because he'd never been with a woman like her. She kept doing things with him to keep him interested. A long time ago in a couples therapy session she told me that she felt like she didn't need to try anymore with me. She is still withholding sex. I feel like second best. There have been times where I completely fall apart in front of her and she does nothing. I'm trying to stay, but when ever we kiss I think about her and him, I think about how she talked to him about things that she has NEVER talked to me about. I want to work it out, but I can't just remove these thoughts...


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

She also gained 30+ pounds during this whole ordeal. She couldn't even ride a ride at Santa Cruz the other day with he kids.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> More insanity. Now it was because he'd never been with a woman like her. She kept doing things with him to keep him interested. A long time ago in a couples therapy session she told me that she felt like she didn't need to try anymore with me. She is still withholding sex. I feel like second best. There have been times where I completely fall apart in front of her and she does nothing. *I'm trying to stay*, but when ever we kiss I think about her and him, I think about how she talked to him about things that she has NEVER talked to me about. *I want to work it out*, but I can't just remove these thoughts...


Why? Are you a glutton for punishment or just afraid of life?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

You need a brain transplant. Why stay with this harpy? Do you hate yourself that much? My god.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> we went to marriage therapy and her and the therapist look at me like im the crazy one for wanting to have sex with her, and wanting her to do with me what she did with him.


Well you gotta admit you are dealing with this in a rather unconventional way.

Most guys would have kicked her to the curb long ago.

You are sitting there doing nothing other than asking for more.

I get where the therapist is coming from.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> More insanity. Now *it was because he'd never been with a woman like her*. She kept doing things with him to keep him interested. A long time ago in a couples therapy session she told me that she felt like she didn't need to try anymore with me. She is still withholding sex. I feel like second best. There have been times where I completely fall apart in front of her and she does nothing. I'm trying to stay, but when ever we kiss I think about her and him, I think about how she talked to him about things that she has NEVER talked to me about. I want to work it out, but I can't just remove these thoughts...




QFT :lol:


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Her actions prove she has no true remorse. Time to stick a fork in it and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The worse thing you can do now is break down in front of her. It makes you look weak, unmanly and inferior to the other man. If you have to just leave but control that when around her.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Latest letter to me:

I don't know really what I am suppose to say in respose to your letter. I know I messed up. I know what I have done to you, you may not think it, but I know. I just don't know what to do to fix it. How can I fix it? You tell me that you want me to comfort you when your upset or when I know that's what I've done is on your mind bothering you, to show you that I care by touching you, holding you, hugging you. I explain to you last night why I don't. When I see that you are hurt I know that I am the one that caused your pain , so it just seems wrong for me to comfort you . I understand why you want me to, I get that. I know that in a way I need to prove to you that I care and for you that is me being there comforting you when you feel down. Also, when you are hurt upset and crying, I become a little numb because I realize and I see what I have done. So many times I sit and I think to myself how I ever did this , I can't believe that I actually did that.

I think I had a good talk with IC the other day. I know you don't think I'm doing anything, and then I'm not making the effort to change, but I know that I am. I know the key to all this, the key for us to find happiness, is to find happiness with ourselves. I know you are not happy with yourself and you haven't been probably for this long as I've known you, the same as for me. I really want to be happy with me and who I am . If we are happy with ourselves then we won't have to rely on other people to make us happy because when we do that we are setting ourselves up and the people we expect to make us happy, for failure.

I want to start over. I want for us both to change ourselves in a way and we can find happiness with and without each other. It's going to be hard, very hard, but I don't believe it is impossible.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Rhetorical nonsense. Do not answer this letter. Divorce her and move on to someone who has a clue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Mad, 

You are blinded by your memories... Bail out NOW! She is Bat-Sh!t crazy. You are going to get hurt something bad if you don't get a 1000 miles away fast.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> On June 26, she fell asleep. I picked up her phone, I remember thinking to myself, its just her friends, its just her friends. I hadn't looked at her phone in over a year.
> her: "I wanna get you drunk and take advantage of you...lol"
> him: "O i think i like that"
> her: "Ur d*ck will be sore"
> ...


That is f*cking brutal. God I am sorry you had to see that. Just BRUTAL!

Triggering big time....man, I would drop her like a hot turd.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

Healer said:


> That is f*cking brutal. God I am sorry you had to see that. Just BRUTAL!
> 
> Triggering big time....man, I would drop her like a hot turd.


You have no idea, the texts get so much worse.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

madcrazy_yo said:


> Latest letter to me:
> 
> (1) You tell me that you want me to comfort you when your upset or when I know that's what I've done is on your mind bothering you, to show you that I care by touching you, holding you, hugging you. I explain to you last night why I don't. When I see that you are hurt I know that I am the one that caused your pain , so it just seems wrong for me to comfort you.
> 
> (2) I know the key to all this, the key for us to find happiness, is to find happiness with ourselves. I really want to be happy with me and who I am.


My take on her letter to you is:

(1) She doesn't comfort you because she doesn't feel like it, it feels wrong to her. She doesn't want to do something that feels wrong to her. It feels wrong to her because she caused it. It makes her feel guilty. She would rather not feel guilty. If she loved you the way a wife should love a husband, she would feel like comforting you. 

Let me put it this way: Let's say that she purposely did something that was hurtful to one of your children. For example, let's suppose that your child overheard your wife telling another parent, or a teacher, how bad your child was, and how much better another child was, and your child was very upset. Don't you think that your wife would comfort your child, even though she was the one who caused the pain? Or would your wife say, like she is saying to you, that it just doesn't seem right to comfort your child because she was the one to cause the pain?

You can see how ludicrous this statement of your wife's is, can't you? The reason she doesn't offer you comfort, hugs, etc. - is because she is very angry at you for breaking up her affair, and I think that she does not love you any more.

(2) She wants to be happy without you. She wants to be happy with herself, all by herself, and not need you. I happen to agree that happiness begins within yourself, but it is also natural for a wife (or husband) to want their spouse to be happy, as much (if not more) as they want themselves to be happy.

You can't force your wife to feel love for you, and you can't force her to feel compassion for you. She appears to be very self-centered, with no love or compassion for you. What do you want to do?

Tell your wife that you have no desire in staying in a marriage with someone who does not love you. Tell your wife that if she loves you, you expect her to show it. Ask your wife why she is staying in the marriage if she doesn't love you. Is it for finances? The kids? Not wanting to be known as a divorced cheater? Some combination of these?

Mad, tell your wife what you need from her in order to stay married to her. If the current situation is acceptable for the time being, that is OK, but remember, just because you feel it is acceptable today doesn't mean that you can't re-evaluate and feel it is unacceptable tomorrow.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She doesn't comfort you because it's YOUR job to serve HER. She didn't marry you to be your helpmate. She married you to make HER life better. Asking her to help you when you're down is alien to her because she has spent her entire life ensuring that SHE is happy. She frankly doesn't even know how, much less WANT to. You're still there, still talking to her, so she figures that's all she has to do, is say nice words.

And, of course, blame YOU ad nauseum in what should have been an apology letter.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Her letter is not illogical or ill reasoned. It is the result of conversation with her therapist who is trying to give her some framework to reorganize her life.

This framework is just a conceptual starting point for her. For it to have meaning she must put her heart and soul into it. Don't exhibit your emotions to her. Let her feel rejected. Let her scramble to attract you. She is on trial as a potential wife. The old wife disappeared when she demeaned herself chasing a man who did not really want her.

The fact that he didn't want her has cut her ego down. You cannot rebuild her ego at your expense. Her therapist is right. She has to be happy and that means that she has to change herself to have chance to be decent partner.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Healer said:


> That is f*cking brutal. God I am sorry you had to see that. Just BRUTAL!.





madcrazy_yo said:


> On June 26, she fell asleep. I picked up her phone
> 
> her: "I think my hub set the bar to high as far as me orgasming with anyone else....".


Well, if you're trying to look for something positive, I see this one particular part of her conversation somewhat complimentary of the Op.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Well, if you're trying to look for something positive, I see this one particular part of her conversation somewhat complimentary of the Op.


Firstly, thanks 

Secondly, I just always thought that affairs were when you traded up. The OM:

1. Didn't know how to kiss
2. Was shorter than she was
3. Was smaller than I am (horizontally, found pix that he sent her - that she asked for btw)
4. Couldn't hit it right
5. Has seven kids with two other women, one of whom has a permenant restraining order against him for "domestic violence with child present". I read the divorce papers, he didn't even try to fight for his kids, he never showed up to one family mediation appt.
6. Told her numerous times, matter of factly, that she was nothing more than a piece of a$$. Wouldnt even bathe prior to meeting with her. Couldn't even say certain things to her (actual text: "I want you to swallow my c**")
7. Lived in an apartment and drove a 2006 Honda Fit (thankfully with tinted windows so that gym patrons or college students couldn't see my wife swallowing)
8. Worked part time at a local home improvement warehouse in the lumber department and tool rental sometimes. And is now unemployed (she told him not to go back, because she knew i would find him and show him that if nothing else, those rings on her finger mean "F*CK OFF)

I can't really tell, if I'm glad he was better at nothing than me and my wife is just a stupid [email protected] with zero self-respect/esteem. or if i would feel better in some way, if something, ANYTHING, could show me, that this woman, who I gave everything too, that i would die and kill for, had done this for a reason.

the only thing i can really see, is that she did it because he was inexperienced (her: he'd never been with a girl like me before) and she was in control, she "taught" him how to kiss, "showed" him anal sex. This is the only thing i can think of, and it disgusts me.


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## madcrazy_yo (Jul 27, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Her letter is not illogical or ill reasoned. It is the result of conversation with her therapist who is trying to give her some framework to reorganize her life.
> 
> This framework is just a conceptual starting point for her. For it to have meaning she must put her heart and soul into it. Don't exhibit your emotions to her. Let her feel rejected. Let her scramble to attract you. She is on trial as a potential wife. The old wife disappeared when she demeaned herself chasing a man who did not really want her.
> 
> The fact that he didn't want her has cut her ego down. You cannot rebuild her ego at your expense. Her therapist is right. She has to be happy and that means that she has to change herself to have chance to be decent partner.


This is THE best response in this entire thread. Hands down.

Thank you, so much!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your old lady can come around but she has to deal with some sh1t with in her self that is broken. 

My old lady was broken...hell I was broken...you just have to make the choice that whats best for you has nothing to do with anyone else and it will be up to them to come along for the ride or phuck off!

The damage that you and me and many others have faced have to be looked at a little different then most...we got screwed and it now time that we take our selves back....

hell I sound like a wayward wife..LOL the only difference is I gotta take back my life cuz of the crap she did to me...my old lady thought she was taking her life back so it didn;t feel so phucking guilty for screwing around.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

madcrazy_yo said:


> This is THE best response in this entire thread. Hands down.
> 
> Thank you, so much!!


You're welcome.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No one has asked so, I will. When were you, or someone extremely close to you, abused and for how long?


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

"He is inexperienced"??? The guy has seven kids and had two wives??? And she believed that BS???:scratchhead:


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