# Clues and no hard evidence



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Anybodys take on my situation would be a help!

2008 was a big year for my wife and me, I retired from the police and she had a full Hysterectomy at the age of 42, this was due to her having a series of long term medical issues.We have four hail and hearty kids all doing well and we all pulled together during my wife,s convalescence but it became obvious we had no idea at that time how much that operation would effect her, physically and mentally! Anyway, we soldiered on and I did my level best,sex was obviously put on the back burner, she was in no condition for that side of the relationship and I had no problem in curbing my natural needs!I have never been demanding in that department, I should say at this point, my wife has always had difficulty in expressing her emotions and would dodge any conversation that would involve her talking about sex this would sometimes be accompanied by anger then silence. She has been and still is a wonderful mother to our children, immensely capable with whatever money we had, she has also without exception, looked after me to the very best of her ability. Let me say that I have never demanded sex with her as a right, and she admits she doesn,t now where I got the patience from, admitting sometimes she would purposely stay up late to give me time to fall asleep!! (ouch!) All that said, we both threw our backs into bringing the kids up in an environment without domestic strife, no argument on personal issues in front of them and we engaged with them in their hobbies and interests , took them everywhere with us and genuinely had a ball!!!!!! 
So, 2008 arrived, I am trying to adjust to my new life at 58 yrs old out of the police, the recession lands as we are all aware, and the money I got on retirement starts to dwindle , we couldnt agree on what to do, I suggested moving away, she didn,t want to, money still dwindling, arguments pick up a pace, real tension verbal attacks both ways, you know how it goes!
I retrained,qualified as an Adult Tutor and got myself a part time job and the money wasn,t great, but it was a start.

THE CLUES

M y daughter sets up an FB account for my wife,all her side of the family have one and she was able to communicate with them, eventuall y her best girlfriend from her old school connects up and also her boyfriend from when she was seventeen. exchanges some transparent wall messages with him, despite my daughters protest about the ex boyfriend she continues, daughter points out some private messages have been exchanged (her replies were deleted). I ask for an explanation, she admits she was flirting with him, did I not think the marriage was already in trouble! I drop into the emotional pit many of you have experienced and went into emotional overdrive, suffice to say, all those years as a cop were useless in this situation, I shed 60lbs in 5 weeks, hanging on for grim death and my kids were not slow in picking up that there was a serious problem.She still went on FB after my protests, I did not ask her to stop, I thought she would have seen how it affected me and took the initiative, not so! As so often happens after reading some of the posts here, I became hypervigilant and realised I had never saw her leave her cell in view, I asked her if she had a problem with me having access to it and during a civilised discussion she agreed. Discrepancies showed between visible texts and the text log on the phone, same with the phone log and visible call record. I challenged quietly, no explanation.
The following months up until March 2010 we made efforts to get back to some sort of "normality, weekends away, local gigs etc. and she lands a job for a sheltered housing company.Her first day at work was interesting,my daughter and I were in the kitchen when she came in, stood still and almost announced "You know when you meet somebody for the first time and instantly like them?" She was radiant and a bell went off in my head followed by my daughter glancing at me with an "Eh?" expression on her face.The subject was a 25yr old male co-worker who she was working with.She told me he had said" Your kids are lucky to have a mother like you" She told me about his family, his dad that had comitted suicide. Silence! A few days later she dropped it into the conversation that he had offered to come and keep her company when she was on night shift, this was a solo post and a sleeping duty.This was in his own time,married with two kids, he would not be getting paid for this from the company!I asked her if she thought this was just a tad dodgy, she said how could it be. Incidently she was aware he was not at that time cleared to work with children, my wife also knew he had been arrested twice in his previous town. She then admitted she understood my concerns, however, he still turned up, and she helped him fill in his time sheet, when I asked what time did he leave, there was a vacant stare accompanied by a ten second silence! 
I will stop here and give you a break!! there is more, any input gratefully accepted!!


----------



## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Occam's razor, my friend. Occam's Razor and your gut.

The odds are she's fully checked out of her/your marriage and is deep in the fog. She's having, or wants to have as soon as she can, an A. The only questions for her are: EA, PA, or both, and how many and how often.

There's nothing new here. You are seeing the basic script that so many have experienced before when their spouse went wayward.

I'm sorry.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Thank you for that Anubis, My gut hasn,t stopped for over a year now, The misery continues!!


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

If you step back and look at it from a professional stand point (the cop in you) I'm pretty sure you already know your answer.

Now the only thing left to figure out is what you want to do about it. I'm pretty sure beating the kid to an inch of his life is at the top of the list but that probably wouldn't be a good idea and you know it.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheating hubby, thanks for your reply, I was going to continue the saga up to date. When you say say take a step back what does the cop say, I can only say I deliberately left out the issue of an old cell belonging to her that re-appeared two years later after she stated categorically she had never used it since I bought her a new one, lo and behold the battery was a tad over half full, with the chat name on the phone "It,s Me" as well as two phone numbers screened, my son,s and a number not known to anyone in the house, that no matter how many times I have texted or called, it always comes back pending. There is more, however I wont torture anyone further!!!
Last night she re-affirmed she had never cheated, and she had no explanation about that phone or anything else I had brought to her attention!! I am a donkey

Thank you for replying to me


----------



## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

If you want hard evidence, there are ways to get it. Keyloggers and VARs would be a good place to start.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Sindo, Thanks for your input, I will do a little shopping around on that one, at the moment I am reeling a bit from the replies, I expected some replies that may have poked some holes in my gut instincts and suggested other strategies, I guess my guts were in hyperdrive, because no matter how convincing she was they never turned off, I was in denial obviously. I feel like an idiot there is still, on my part, the need to see absolute proof, I know she is never going to volunteer with that!!!!!

Thank You


----------



## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

boto227 said:


> I feel like an idiot there is still, on my part, the need to see absolute proof, I know she is never going to volunteer with that!!!!!


You're not an idiot. Some people are content to go with their gut. I'm of the opinion that even if your gut is right, you will be a lot more effective with evidence. You're cop, so you're probably more aware of this than most.

Proof will also be an effective guard against any of your wife's attempts to gaslight you.


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

It seems that she lost her attraction to you many years ago. As the result, she has put herself in a very vulnerable position to reciprocate any advance from the opposite gender. Money issue certainly didn't help either. This is truly a very bad spot you find yourself in. 

You should try to find more solid evidence with which you can force her to admit to her wrongdoings and maybe you can "shame" her to get her act together. You can keep monitoring the cell records. You can also try finding a tool to install in her cell to monitor the communication. Putting VARs in her car and wherever else she may engage in phone conversation with OM may be a good idea. I heard some BH even put a small VAR in WW's handbag producing a great result. Keylogger on her laptop. Showing up announced to her work place to catch something. If OM is married with kids, then you must contact OMW. 

If all these snooping and what not fails to work, then you must contact lawyer and show her that you are seriously contemplating divorce due to her suspicious activity with OM.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well you can drive yourself crazy with what evidence accidentally presents itself or...

do something about it and start an investigation like a good cop would. This time you don't need warrants. Get a VAR for the car and put a keylogger on the computer.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You know the drill - gather facts - expect to be lied to.

Walmart sells VARs - get a couple. Put velcro on them and put one under the seat of her car. Swap it out with a fresh one so it's always there.

find out all about the OM and especially how to contact his wife.

If there is an affair, before you confront your wife:

1- cut off her access to any joint money. If she leaves the house, she can rely upon her own support.

2- tell the OMW first before you confront your wife. This will pull the affair partner out from under her, and will likely result in him throwing her under the bus.

3- sit back and let her come to you over the OM and his telling her you know of the affair.

4. do not reveal your sources - ever.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You have left us, with a gap in your story

Did it end with the 25 yr old, after that one episode, or was there more to that story?????

No matter what, you are gonna have to get some answers.

I don't think you have ever been harsh with your wife, you seem to have soft-pedalled everything, that has bothered you----and when she got her hackles up, and dug in, when you questioned things, you let it drop.

As to her doing any cheating, or inappropriate things ---you do need to find out, so you probably need to get harsh about it.

Your wife, is probably in her late 50's herself---so if you were to threaten her with ending the mge., cuz of the way she has/is carrying on----she is gonna take a long hard look at being alone, for the 1st time, at this advanced age---and it will eventually scare her shi*less---no matter how much bravado she puts on.

You want some answers demand them, demand transparency, and demand a Polygraph

There is no right to privacy in a mge.,---You want privacy, you STAY SINGLE.

You should be able to look at every piece of electronics she uses, at any time

You need to get harsh, and lay down the law---if she doesn't want this mge., any more---then there is no reason for you to be together anyway

Time for you to take some action.


----------



## sunshine93 (Sep 9, 2011)

Anubis said:


> Occam's razor, my friend. Occam's Razor and your gut.
> 
> The odds are she's fully checked out of her/your marriage and is deep in the fog. She's having, or wants to have as soon as she can, an A. The only questions for her are: EA, PA, or both, and how many and how often.
> 
> ...


I'm very sorry boto that you're in this position. I agree with everything Anubis is saying. Cheaters do follow the same MO. The past 3 months of my life have been absolutely horrible. It's like watching your life unravel but not being able to stop it. I hope you eventually get the answers you deserve. Living in limbo for 3 months was too much for me to bear. Lots of (((hugs))) to you. April



boto227 said:


> Cheating hubby, thanks for your reply, I was going to continue the saga up to date. When you say say take a step back what does the cop say, I can only say I deliberately left out the issue of an old cell belonging to her that re-appeared two years later after she stated categorically she had never used it since I bought her a new one, lo and behold the battery was a tad over half full, with the chat name on the phone "It,s Me" as well as two phone numbers screened, my son,s and a number not known to anyone in the house, that no matter how many times I have texted or called, it always comes back pending. There is more, however I wont torture anyone further!!!
> Last night she re-affirmed she had never cheated, and she had no explanation about that phone or anything else I had brought to her attention!! I am a donkey
> 
> Thank you for replying to me


You're a smart man, you already know your answer. She sounds like my husband; he would never have admitted it. I knew I would have to present the evidence. April


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

One thing you don't want to do is to confront too soon. She'll try to cover up and go dark for a bit, but you'll loose the initiative.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

You wonderful people, I am so glad I landed here, there has been no-one else I can talk to and your support and advice is exactly what I was looking for, straight from the horses mouth!!
Regarding the gap in the story, well, she only worked at the care home for one month, that was March 2010, the missing texts and calls continued, bearing in mind I had no hard evidence she had been up to no good.Anyway she quit, in all fairness the work was not doing her health any good, one of the reasons that I have not asked her to go, has been the state of her health, despite the fact she is the one that has somewhere to go, she is still my kid,s mother and I just think doing that, falls below my own idea of what is right and wrong. Despite no longer working at the care home,she managed to bump into the guy in question at the local Walmart which she told me about, how he had quit as well , told her "If a woman like you can,t get a job what chance have I got?" Strangely enough earlier that day she had told me her mother was going into hospital in two days time for some outpatient treatment on her foot, (I already knew this to be a fact) however, she told me the Doctor had said someone would have to stay with her after treatment for 24hrs at her home which is 18 miles away.So my radar switches on and she immediately picked up on this, with the result that when she comes back from Walmart, she says"If you dont want me to go and stay with my mother I won,t.Straight off I think how the hell have you changed your mind some two hours after telling me it was important she was not left alone because of possible side eefects from the medicine, I assumed their overnight plans had been scuppered.When the day arrived it basically went like this, leaves home a.m., massive rainstorm arrives over the area, I start getting some texts saying, stuck in traffic, traffic not moving, back at mothers, the end result was later on that evening she arrives back, her first words through the door were "I was fibbing,there was no traffic problem, I wasn,t stuck in traffic, anyway when I asked the obvious question "Why lie about it?" She was stressed, she was buying my birthday present at their local Walmart, ladeladeladela!!
I was sorely tempted to approach her mother directly and see if anything dropped out of the tree, I decided not to, who will turn a mother against her daughter?!
The thing is, I can,t honestly say what has gone on, and if the OM is in fact ongoing, she has a weight gain problem at the mom ent and hates everything about her body, a simple tracker I have placed in a rear light cluster has not shown thrown anything up like new addresses, locations tally with her account of where she had been, I suspect the OM may have been over for some months.
I am working on VAR and camera, I need the proof,not for my own satisfaction, it,s so that when we split, my kids know who has done what, and she can,t play the victim and long suffering good wife.For me that is number one, I have never cheated, I have never had my own personal money, I have given her and the kids, where finance allowed anything they asked for , I have never (this will sound sad I know!) since being married gone on guy nights out , the family has been number 1,2,and three on my list.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So the VAR is available at Walmart!


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah, over here in the UK its known as Asda!! 
You are currently the only human being in my house I can communicate with!!!! LOL


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

? you messing with us? Your post kept mentioning walmart!


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

LOL!!! No I,m not messing, the firm Asda is owned by Walmart 
a quick check will confirm that.


----------



## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

Take her to the Polygraph test and you'll have your answers...


----------



## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

Bugz Bunny said:


> Take her to the Polygraph test and you'll have your answers...


They're expensive. And if he doesn't have any firm evidence, she will act offended and make him the bad guy.


----------



## Bartimaus (Oct 15, 2011)

OP...STOP! Man head Shaggy's advice now!
You remind me so,so much of myself and the stupid way I confronted my WW about her cheating. If she wants to cheat then your actions will drive her underground and if she is half as sly and cunning as my WW then your gut feelings will torment the very life out of you for a long time as she continues.
You may be like me and care so much for them that we can't help ourselves and respond at the least little red flag. I did that for 38 years. She was hell bent on continuing to flirt and cheat and brother,there isn't a woman on earth as talented as she in sneaking and covering up her infidelity. 
Bottom line here is what? If your wife is cheating then you want to know? Do you think that if you catch her up in something that she will instantly stop cheating? And you two will live happily ever after? REALLY?
Keep quiet about your suspicions and her red flags. Show no signs of suspecting her to be cheating. Give her enough rope,collect hard evidence and then go public with it...that is if you then want a divorce. Good luck my friend.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks for replying guys, Bartimaus I take your point and I know this union is not fixable, like I said if anything is going on now, it is via cell or computer, she never goes out other than to the local shops, I have a tracker that confirms this, I am going to concentrate on VAR AND CELL . Thank you for your advice, which has been invaluable I will update with any progress on evidence


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Boto - likelihood is that she is having both and emotional (EA) and physical (PA) affair with this guy. Heed Shaggy's advice and use your cop skills.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

The Key Logger will be your best bet and phone records. I found my wife had several email accounts and since she believed I knew nothing about them she did not bother to delete anything so I had 9 months worth of messages, and photos. Things I wll never be able to forget but you will know and have your proof

My wife also thought she was being smart by racking up hotel points. They are really good at keeping records, when and where and how much spent.

About the kids. My wife and I are trying to work things out but if it does not happen. I will never talk to my kids about my wifes afair. It is my problem and my wifes and I do not want to make it thiers.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Boto, you absolutely need to stop confronting her while you are in sleuth mode. It only makes things harder to find.
Discipline yourself to act like an unsuspecting dolt. She will get more and more careless.
You need to be a good actor , now.


----------



## boto227 (Dec 2, 2011)

Het Guys thanks again, the comments I agree with, you are talking absolute sense, the acting bit Arnold is really difficult for someone who has always spoken it as it was. Today I must confess I had a terrible period of self doubt, guilt, The impression she is innocent was overwhelming. I have dealt with some extremely bad people as a cop, I have, like many cops had to cope with high levels of fear and I was still able to take control and bring a resolution with minimum harm to all involved.I feel as though I am almost experiencing the fear and anxiety that you felt as a child when confronted by frightening circumstances, is this par for the course?
I'LL BE HONEST, I think I was expecting a lot of people to interrogate me before giving the thumbs down!! I suppose you have read it from a neutral position, something I was not able to do.
Thank you everybody, you are so supportive and encouraging I am so grateful. Best wishes to everyone of you!!


----------

