# How Much Regret Do Betrayers Live With?



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I was reading this article Is The Cheating Spouse Living With Regret? and the responses are very much worth reading. 

Especially this one:

_I think the cheating spouse will only regret their decision if they lose something because of it. I don’t think the cheating spouse regrets cheating if the wife/husband decides to stay and work on the marriage. Because if they don’t divorce…. then what did they really lose? Nothing. Sure they created a problem and will have arguments, but in the end they win. They cheat and have fun… and as a result end up with a better marriage than they had before. For them it’s a win win situation, and for us betrayed spouses we suffer and lose everything. I’ve lost my sanity and my sense of security. I’ve lost everything I thought I had. My H lost nothing. I’m here the kids are here. What did he lose?_


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

Speaking from experience my wife has no guilt or shame over her cheating, she describes it as simply a mistake she made when she was young and she's glad she did it then because she would've done it later anyway. She went from her Dad's house, to her cousin's, to mine and wanted to just be free. 

I think she enjoyed her time and feels no guilt over it at all.

The only one living with regret is me for taking her back like an idiot.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

cuchulain36 said:


> Speaking from experience my wife has no guilt or shame over her cheating, she describes it as simply a mistake she made when she was young and she's glad she did it then because she would've done it later anyway. She went from her Dad's house, to her cousin's, to mine and wanted to just be free.
> 
> I think she enjoyed her time and feels no guilt over it at all.


And your still with her?


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

The Middleman said:


> And your still with her?


Unfortunately yes, three kids and not enough money to support two households keeps me here. I figure I'm stuck until my youngest is in High School.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

It's easy to see it this way. However... the story does not end until we reach the end. It depends on what kind of belief system you subscribe to. Do you believe in hell? What about a hereafter where the karma bus really does catch up to us? 

Just because a cheater appears to escape horrible consequences of infidelity does not mean they have, or will.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

cuchulain36 said:


> Unfortunately yes, three kids and not enough money to support two households keeps me here. I figure I'm stuck until my youngest is in High School.


Sorry to hear that. I sincerely hope you at least extracted some form of retribution.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

The Middleman said:


> Sorry to hear that. I sincerely hope you at least extracted some form of retribution.


I keep in great shape, have a great career, good education, when I'm 46 and moving onto wife and life #2 and she's 42 and realizing her looks are fading fast and options of a 42 year old woman are not the same as her options were at 22 I may take some satisfaction in that.

But I started young, honestly in ten years I can completely reinvent myself and start all over, all while raising my kids and being there for them so I'm alright with it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

My ex wife has no regrets save for the fact it cost her her daughter. But she blames that on other things.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> But she blames that on other things.


Yep, I just can never seem to read enough of that. While I agree that the main issues in the health of the marriage are by default usually the problem of both husband and wife, what is done with the hurt those problems cause is the decision of the individual. 

That choice may have been difficult to make, the decision cannot be regretted in a manner in which it is felt by the BS. I'm not trying to be mean. There is just no way.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

This paragraph you quoted from the article is an exact argument I have had with my MC. If the wayward spouse is remorseful and regretful I feel they are rewarded less. I say rewarded because in my case my WW lived in a world of fantasy for her six month affair. WW for six months loved someone else as her plan B (me) remained faithful to her. I provided her with her safety blanket in the event her fantasy exploded. She could always return to plan B. As long as I didn't find out everything would be great. But I found out. This was not part of her plan. We are attempting reconciliation and have entered MC. So now we are working on the marriage and she is working on herself and marriage. If we are successful and the marriage gets better I see it as the marriage is better and she was able to have the fantasy world of an affair. I get a better marriage also but in my opinion I should have had that already. I held true to my vows and while she doesn't she still has more of a reward. WW has one chance at reconciliation and she has worked hard, I recognize her hard work. 

MC has pointed out all that my WW has gone through, pain, humiliation, shame, and countless other emotions. MC has shown me so much of how this is not a reward I would be here for days typing. Even though I have seen what my MC shows is not a reward a part of me will always see the wayward spouse as getting a reward in my opinion. I may be wrong, or I may be right. But if the marriage becomes difficult and one spouse steps out to have an affair with reconciliation offered, I see it as a reward. I lived the same marriage with her yet I didn't cheat. Am I stronger? Am I better? Is she weak? I didn't cheat for many reasons, too long a list to type out here. I'm not stronger or better, it's just not my solution to the problem in front of me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> Speaking from experience my wife has no guilt or shame over her cheating, she describes it as simply a mistake she made when she was young and she's glad she did it then because she would've done it later anyway. She went from her Dad's house, to her cousin's, to mine and wanted to just be free.
> 
> I think she enjoyed her time and feels no guilt over it at all.
> 
> The only one living with regret is me for taking her back like an idiot.


In the same boat here. X wife never felt shame or guilt about it. Acknowledged I didn't deserve it but never apologized either. In many ways she got the new life she wanted. My children and I are really the only ones who lost anything.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

They only regret getting caught


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

I have wondered before if my ex ever regretted his actions aka EA/PA's. I am guessing mostly not because he is narcissistic to the point of being sociopathic.

Honestly I don't believe in karma, and am pretty sure people do horrible things all the time they are not "punished" for. 

The important thing (to me) is I am not a cheater and don't have to live with that on my conscience.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

The only waywards that show regret, _that I personally have knowledge of_, are the ones who got dumped and didn't have a Plan B to fall back on anymore. 

That raises the question of what they are really regretful about. I believe they regret suffering the consequences but not the affair itself.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

cuchulain36 said:


> I keep in great shape, have a great career, good education, when I'm 46 and moving onto wife and life #2 and she's 42 and realizing her looks are fading fast and options of a 42 year old woman are not the same as her options were at 22 I may take some satisfaction in that.
> 
> But I started young, honestly in ten years I can completely reinvent myself and start all over, all while raising my kids and being there for them so I'm alright with it.


So it's a long play. Separated finances? No joint debts? House in joint names? If so, rent.

Have you isolated and hid some assets?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

cuchulain,

First...great name...my favorite hero from Irish myth.

Second...I applaud you and cringe at the same time...no way I could do what you are doing after your WW displayed that attitude...I hope it works to your satisfaction in the end.

I have a mental image of you sailing away into a better future with a younger, prettier woman while your WW cries bitterly over what's left of her life and prospects.

Hope it comes true for you.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

aug said:


> So it's a long play. Separated finances? No joint debts? House in joint names? If so, rent.
> 
> Have you isolated and hid some assets?


After this next tax-return in January I will have zero debt other than student loans, her student loans are in her name, whether I would be required to pay them may need to be worked out in the divorce.

Our mortgage is very reasonable, my wife wants to upgrade to a bigger home but I convinced her it would be better to either stay in this small house and pay down student loan debt, or sell this house and rent a larger house and not incur more debt.

I don't hide finances and right now our bank account is joint, but I have a decade to work on separating our finances. She just got a teaching job after I put her through school for five years so I think she'll love the idea of her money being hers and agree to separate bank accounts.

It will take a long time, but I have time. I really don't want to leave my kids and have some strange fella playing Daddy to them. It is the only reason I'm still here.



Dyokemm said:


> I have a mental image of you sailing away into a better future with a younger, prettier woman while your WW cries bitterly over what's left of her life and prospects.
> 
> Hope it comes true for you.


It will, no doubt. Thanks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

My BIL cheated on my sister several times. They have been married 45 years, and several years ago he told his daughter her mother deserved better than what she got from him.

He has to live with his conscience. I am sure that is very heavy.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Ripper said:


> The only waywards that show regret, _that I personally have knowledge of_, are the ones who got dumped and didn't have a Plan B to fall back on anymore.
> 
> *That raises the question of what they are really regretful about. I believe they regret suffering the consequences but not the affair itself.*


I can see R after the divorce or major exposure.... 

I also tend to agree with the bold part. The true regret is more for being caught and those consequences rather than for the sex... I mean, that was their wild time that will always bring a wry smile to their face in many ways.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Some do, some don't.

I would say based on personal experience the majority don't really have much regret unless they get caught.

The human mind has a great justification engine for wrongdoing.

However, I've seen some that were never caught and live with a heavy heart. Maybe, say, 10-20% have regret if they weren't caught?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Sadly too, the BS loses all the way around imho, as if they stay, they have a marriage that has been compromised, and if they leave, they have a life they never asked for...

I always believed the WW if getting through R, final reaction would always be, "Whew, got thur that one!"

-sammy


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> Sadly too, the BS loses all the way around imho, as if they stay, they have a marriage that has been compromised, and if they leave, they have a life they never asked for...
> 
> I always believed the WW if getting through R, final reaction would always be, "Whew, got thur that one!"
> 
> -sammy


Yep, an affair is a losing situation all around. That is why it is so helpful to prevent them, if possible. And it is not always possible.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jld said:


> Yep, an affair is a losing situation all around. That is why it is so helpful to prevent them, if possible. And it is not always possible.


I would think it is always possible.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I would think it is always possible.


If you are married to a serial cheater?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

thatbpguy said:


> I would think it is always possible.


It's not, unless you can take some couples to a deserted island with no other human beings on it.

Some people will _never_ be monogamous.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Ok, got it. I misread the post.

I hate getting old......


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I would think it is always possible.


Humans can only strive for an ideal of "perfection" but will never achieve it. Some individuals will do better than others, at least in some of the more important areas like avoding cheating. If they can do that, I can forgive or overlook lesser flaws.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

cuchulain36 said:


> I don't hide finances and right now our bank account is joint, but I have a decade to work on separating our finances. She just got a teaching job after I put her through school for five years so I think she'll love the idea of her money being hers and agree to separate bank accounts.


If she just got a job as a teacher, she will be cheating on you again in no time. Teachers, along with medical workers and police officers, have the highest rate on infidelity of any working group. There are several posters on TAM who's WSs are teachers. 

Be vigilant. It won't be long.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

bravenewworld said:


> I have wondered before if my ex ever regretted his actions aka EA/PA's. I am guessing mostly not because he is narcissistic to the point of being sociopathic.
> 
> Honestly I don't believe in karma, and am pretty sure people do horrible things all the time they are not "punished" for.
> 
> The important thing (to me) is I am not a cheater and don't have to live with that on my conscience.


I think about that sometimes - the stress and anxiety I would feel if I had been the wayward. That's one of the main reasons I never cheated - I couldn't live with myself causing someone else that kind of pain. It would eat me alive. And being hated that much - by the BS and their friends/family. Being despised because you're a pos would definitely suck. But I guess it just doesn't bother some people.

My heart may have been ripped out and shat upon, but at least my conscience is clear.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

cuchulain36 said:


> Speaking from experience my wife has no guilt or shame over her cheating, she describes it as simply a mistake she made when she was young and she's glad she did it then because she would've done it later anyway. She went from her Dad's house, to her cousin's, to mine and wanted to just be free.
> 
> I think she enjoyed her time and feels no guilt over it at all.
> 
> The only one living with regret is me for taking her back like an idiot.


It is never too late to stop feeling like an idiot.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I would venture a guess that my EXWW's biggest regret is that sugar daddy posom stayed with his wife and she now has to work 2 jobs.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

It is nice to be to a place where I am no longer concerned if my X has regrets. It used to mean a lot to me if she did, and I spent countless hours of my life ruminating about how sorry she should be for hurting me and destroying her family.

Now I don't care about her personal experiences at all. I hope she's learned from it and moves forward. All I want from her is to be a good mother to our daughter.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

.....to address the initial question ....I don't think there have been any consequences dumped in my wife's lap that will steer her mind / feelings towards real regret.

.....she ..in my opinion ...regrets she told me of her ONS. Not because of the pain she inflicted on me ...but only because I haven't allowed her to push what she did into some dark closet ...forever.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife had no regrets about her affair. Though she did "regret" that I was hurt.

In her weird way of looking at the world she thought that she'd have her affair and that I'd be (somehow) OK with it.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

How much regret? Who knows?

What a polite thing to consider. "Is your regret passing, pressing, or profound?" "How has regret shaped your experiences, and your sense of self?" "Do you deal with regret daily, weekly, monthly?"

What a pot of piss.

How often does the BS regret what the wayward did? Every ****ing minute of every ****ing day.

Lets just set the bar level.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife had no regrets about her affair. Though she did "regret" that I was hurt.
> 
> In her weird way of looking at the world she thought that she'd have her affair and that I'd be (somehow) OK with it.


I think if asked nearly all betrayers would say they regreted what they did. BUT, at the very time they had their betrayal they were excited and felt alive. And nothing ever takes those memories away from them. I mean, they say the right things...... but still at THAT time, to them, it was as good as life gets.

That is something that even with R the BS can never live up to. And that is so deeply painful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I think if asked nearly all betrayers would say they regreted what they did. BUT, at the very time they had their betrayal they were excited and felt alive. And nothing ever takes those memories away from them. I mean, they say the right things...... but still at THAT time, to them, it was as good as life gets.
> 
> That is something that even with R the BS can never live up to. And that is so deeply painful.


Yes. Yes it does.

Even after all these years, I know she still has loving feelings for her former AP. So, I'm still plan b.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Yes it does.
> 
> Even after all these years, I know she still has loving feelings for her former AP. So, I'm still plan b.


Why do you not divorce? Would it not be better than living with resentment?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Yes it does.
> 
> Even after all these years, I know she still has loving feelings for her former AP. So, I'm still plan b.


And, sadly, most plan B's are just that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I know this is a little off topic. I have to ask. 

Once you fall in love, I mean real love, not just infatuation, don't you always carry a little of that in your heart? I do. I can't help it. That person means something special to me. These are the women I've had sex with. They all mean more to me than any woman I've not had sex with. 

Does anyone else feel the same? Maybe a new thread?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I know this is a little off topic. I have to ask.
> 
> Once you fall in love, I mean real love, not just infatuation, don't you always carry a little of that in your heart? I do. I can't help it. That person means something special to me. These are the women I've had sex with. They all mean more to me than any woman I've not had sex with.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the same? Maybe a new thread?


My XWW was the true love if my life. Always will be. Of course she holds a very special place in my heart. 

That's what sucks so much.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> My XWW was the true love if my life. Always will be. Of course she holds a very special place in my heart.
> 
> That's what sucks so much.


Did you try to reconcile?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I must fall easily. I remember each of them fondly, for who they were.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jld said:


> Did you try to reconcile?


Twice. But her 3rd betrayal was the end. I have never recovered fully.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I must fall easily. I remember each of them fondly, for who they were.


All 6 of them. 
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Sorry, just had to.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

No just 4, but that's alright. You couldn't have known.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

So sorry, BP. So sorry.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> Twice. But her 3rd betrayal was the end. I have never recovered fully.



You need to move on with your life and stop pining after a woman who really never cared for you. I guarantee she doesn't care even a smidge as much as you do. Honestly she probably doesn't give a crap at all. She was willing to keep you around as long as you tolerated her affairs. But once you divorced she probably didn't really care. Why spend another day letting someone like that make you miserable or impact your life?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You'll be in my prayers tonight bp. Take care. All things will work out, one way or another. Counseling is in order if you can. I'm sorry you are hurting. It isn't fun. I understand that very well. I hope I got you to laugh a little. Just keep on keepin' on. It's all you can do, one step at a time.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My XWW was the true love if my life. Always will be. Of course she holds a very special place in my heart.
> 
> That's what sucks so much.


Based on everything you've posted about your XWW, do you think that it is more likely that it is the fantasy of who you believed she was, or even who you hoped she was, rather than the person she actually became, that you are still grieving? That special place in your heart, that rightfully belongs to your current wife, is being squandered on someone who never really existed, or if she did, she quit existing a long time ago, bp. 

I don't have any answers for you. I don't even have any suggestions. I wish I did. But, you know that my heart goes out to you. I sincerely hope that you eventually find total peace and healing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Why do you not divorce? Would it not be better than living with resentment?


I don't have any resentment. Sadness, sometimes, and not often that, but no resentment.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I know this is a little off topic. I have to ask.
> 
> Once you fall in love, I mean real love, not just infatuation, don't you always carry a little of that in your heart? I do. I can't help it. That person means something special to me. These are the women I've had sex with. They all mean more to me than any woman I've not had sex with.
> 
> Does anyone else feel the same? Maybe a new thread?


I know where you are coming from. My first LTR girlfriend left me for a woman and I still have loving feelings for her and this is 32 years ago.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My ex wife has no regrets save for the fact it cost her her daughter. But she blames that on other things.


What about your present wife...the one you talk about in your other thread? Has she ever shown true regret for her EA?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Yes it does.
> 
> Even after all these years, I know she still has loving feelings for her former AP. So, I'm still plan b.



I thought she kicked him in the nads the last time she saw him.

:scratchhead:

You're story keeps meandering Matt. What is the truth?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

cuchulain36 said:


> You need to move on with your life and stop pining after a woman who really never cared for you. I guarantee she doesn't care even a smidge as much as you do. Honestly she probably doesn't give a crap at all. She was willing to keep you around as long as you tolerated her affairs. But once you divorced she probably didn't really care. Why spend another day letting someone like that make you miserable or impact your life?


True. But there's a difference between a woman one loves and the true love of ones life.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> What about your present wife...the one you talk about in your other thread? Has she ever shown true regret for her EA?


Oh yes. We talked it all out and she was very forthcoming. It was nearly what I thought it was. And to her credit she recognized it herself and did something about it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Oh yes. We talked it all out and she was very forthcoming. It was nearly what I thought it was. And to her credit she recognized it herself and did something about it.


Hmm. I'm dubious brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Hmm. I'm dubious brother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to ask, why does it say "banned" where your avatar is?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I have to ask, why does it say "banned" where your avatar is?


He has an odd sense of humor.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> He has an odd sense of humor.


Sez the poster with the most curious avatar on TAM......

I don't even know if I want to know the story behind yours. 

Mine's easy. I have a long standing love affair with the central Oregon coast.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Sez the poster with the most curious avatar on TAM......
> 
> I don't even know if I want to know the story behind yours.
> 
> Mine's easy. I have a long standing love affair with the central Oregon coast.


I also have an odd sense of humor.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I think if asked nearly all betrayers would say they regreted what they did. BUT, at the very time they had their betrayal they were excited and felt alive. And nothing ever takes those memories away from them. I mean, they say the right things...... but still at THAT time, to them, it was as good as life gets.


There are plenty of fWS who could bat that one down. Heck, a couple even are posting to this thread. One who is truly remorseful will look back on it through the lens of all the hurt they caused, not with wistful, fond memories.

They won't respond though, because they will be attacked for it mercilessly.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> I was reading this article Is The Cheating Spouse Living With Regret? and the responses are very much worth reading.
> 
> Especially this one:
> 
> _I think the cheating spouse will only regret their decision if they lose something because of it. I don’t think the cheating spouse regrets cheating if the wife/husband decides to stay and work on the marriage. Because if they don’t divorce…. then what did they really lose? Nothing. Sure they created a problem and will have arguments, but in the end they win. They cheat and have fun… and as a result end up with a better marriage than they had before. For them it’s a win win situation, and for us betrayed spouses we suffer and lose everything. I’ve lost my sanity and my sense of security. I’ve lost everything I thought I had. My H lost nothing. I’m here the kids are here. What did he lose?_



I don't think I agree with the highlighted statement above. I just don't believe anyone gets away with something scot free, save maybe sociopaths and psychopaths. Lying, cheating, stealing and generally doing things that we know we shouldn't do eats away at your soul. It corrodes your self esteem and chips away at your sense of worth, even if only a little at a time. There are always consequences for our actions, even though we may not always get what we truly deserve. 

I think regret is the wrong expectation anyway. Regret describes emotions ranging from being disappointed to intense sorrow due mainly to an external circumstance or event.

I believe remorse from a WS should actually be the desired outcome. Remorse is defined as deep regret, involving anguish or guilt and self-reproach or repentance.

What those betrayed or wronged really want is justice and if that isn't entirely possible, then contrition, empathy and complete understanding. 

I have not been on either side of the infidelity coin but I was an active abuser of alcohol and drugs for a number of years. I did much damage to my family. Now clean and sober for many years, I had to do a lot of heavy lifting to regain trust and to get my family back, not completely unlike a WS.

My W didn't care if I regretted what I had done because that was really meaningless. She wanted to see remorse and a willingness to make amends or make things right, if you will. She required changed actions, behaviors and attitudes from me. If I wasn't willing to do those things then how sorry was I really?

In my view, that is not unlike what a WS needs to do to reconcile with their spouse and regain trust from their family. It should require a ton of heavy lifting so in that regard, the betrayal is not unpunished as those are definitely consequences to their actions.

So I guess I wouldn't worry so much about what they say they feel or whether they regret what they have done adequately but rather what actions are they willing to take or are still taking to make things right. What attitudes and behaviors have changed for the better and do they have proper empathy and understanding for the pain they have caused.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What I really wanted was for time to turn backward to a point before all of it happened, in which things would be different because of some divine influence.

Miracles are not common, even if you believe in them. 

Reality is that I have to deal with what I and life, fate, my ex or whomever and/or whatever have given me. I have to do the work. I may be broken. I still have to live. We all do. We make the best of what we have today, and deal with the pain of yesterday.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Especially this one:
> 
> _I think the cheating spouse will only regret their decision if they lose something because of it. I don’t think the cheating spouse regrets cheating if the wife/husband decides to stay and work on the marriage._


Yes, because how many times have we heard a few WSs say that something good came out of their affair, and they qualify their statement with the fact that they got their BS to kiss their feet(in so many words) ?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I was reading this article Is The Cheating Spouse Living With Regret? and the responses are very much worth reading.
> 
> Especially this one:
> 
> _I think the cheating spouse will only regret their decision if they lose something because of it. I don’t think the cheating spouse regrets cheating if the wife/husband decides to stay and work on the marriage. Because if they don’t divorce…. then what did they really lose? Nothing. Sure they created a problem and will have arguments, but in the end they win. They cheat and have fun… and as a result end up with a better marriage than they had before. For them it’s a win win situation, and for us betrayed spouses we suffer and lose everything. I’ve lost my sanity and my sense of security. I’ve lost everything I thought I had. My H lost nothing. I’m here the kids are here. What did he lose?_


That is one person's opinion on some internet forum. To say a person (or rather, all people) who have cheated don't regret it, whether they stay married/partnered, or not, is one helluva blanket statement.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> There are plenty of fWS who could bat that one down. Heck, a couple even are posting to this thread. One who is truly remorseful will look back on it through the lens of all the hurt they caused, not with wistful, fond memories.
> 
> They won't respond though, because they will be attacked for it mercilessly.


Oh I don't believe so in most cases, although there will be some that will attack no matter the mindset of the WS.

Take Maricha, MJA, and tonedef. They don't get attacked, in the merciless sense of which you speak. Sure there will be a couple that don't care what they have to say, but for the most part, people have listened and liked what they had to say.

Then you have the others that seem remorseful, but then come out and tell their story and yes, point the finger at their BS. THOSE are the types that get the "merciless" attacks. Not saying its right, just saying its those types that get it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I have to ask, why does it say "banned" where your avatar is?


I'm beating the mods to the punch. 


I have an odd sense of humor.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I think that WS's degree of regret or guilt varies depending on so many factors. I personally believe that LTA's have the fondest memories and probably are wistful at moments long after the affair. ONS people probably fantasize about the sexual encounter for a bit until that memory fades, unless it was amazing, then it takes longer.

In general, I think that eventually well adjusted cheaters (oxymoron, I know) realize that hurting someone else is just bad and they feel guilt for the now realized pain. I guess that both guilt and fond memories fades in an out, just as reminiscing on any other bad or fond memories fades in and out. Eventually, it all is hazy. 

I also agree that cheaters who don't suffer any consequences suffer nothing. You got to have your fun, you feel like crap because you hurt someone you "love", but they don't feel like crap for having the fun. In short, the good times were good and the cheater enjoyed them with full knowledge that it would be devastating to their spouse. Sort of like having an "O" knowing that it would kill your spouse and then doing it again and again. I think they regret the pain, but not the "O". 

Probably a bit too long winded, but there it is.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> That is one person's opinion on some internet forum. To say a person (or rather, all people) who have cheated don't regret it, whether they stay married/partnered, or not, is one helluva blanket statement.


I agree that most betrayers regret the consequences after being caught.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I'm beating the mods to the punch.
> 
> 
> I have an odd sense of humor.


Yes you do.

:smthumbup:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I thought she kicked him in the nads the last time she saw him.
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> You're story keeps meandering Matt. What is the truth?


Yep. She did kick him in the nads, but still has some 'feelings' for him.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Oh I don't believe so in most cases, although there will be some that will attack no matter the mindset of the WS.
> 
> Take Maricha, MJA, and tonedef. They don't get attacked, in the merciless sense of which you speak. Sure there will be a couple that don't care what they have to say, but for the most part, people have listened and liked what they had to say.
> 
> Then you have the others that seem remorseful, but then come out and tell their story and yes, point the finger at their BS. THOSE are the types that get the "merciless" attacks. Not saying its right, just saying its those types that get it.


Yep, the BUT statements. "The affair was totally on me and my issues. BUT my needs weren't being met and I couldn't divorce due to X, Y and Z (insert flimsy excuse here)."

People who make the BUT statements aren't remorseful as they would like to believe, and don't understand and/or care their decision to cheat is a separate matter from the existing marital problems.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'll simply answer the post title question: Some of us live with a lot.

Every day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I agree that most betrayers regret the consequences after being caught.


Well my ex told me. And I don't think he felt less regret for not having been caught versus someone who was. 

Blanket statements -- try to paint everyone in the same light.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yep. She did kick him in the nads, but still has some 'feelings' for him.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It's done for payback in a lot of cases. I'm telling you. They have the lock and the only key. They let who they want borrow the key for a little while. That's okay except when it's used for revenge for forgetting an anniversary or something. 

I hate typing that. I hope someone proves me wrong.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

I think the only remorseful waywards who actually feel bad for hurting their partner are the ones who admitted to the affair when the BS didn't know or suspect anything going on and they could have got away with it.

The rest I wouldn't believe anything that came out of their mouths.

It actually makes me sad reading some of the stories on here. A WS will be having an affair for a long time and the BS will only find out by accident. They'll then be dumped so the WS can be with the OM/OW (Some will even throw in a few insults about how much better they are) Then when they get dumped or it just doesn't work out they'll come back and the BS will be on here going on about how everything's great and they are sorry and really love them. And I'm sitting here thinking, nope, your just the backup plan.

People mention WS being in the fog but I think its the BS that's in the fog. They are in love with their partner so they delude themselves into thinking that their partner actually loves them. I can see why they would do this. Its just sad to read knowing they'll probably never know about the next affair.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The "fog" is actually brain chemicals that cause humans to bond in a very special way that no other two can. It can happen again and again throughout an individuals life and each time will be different and special for it's own merits. It's something I believe is there to help the human species survive. That's different from what most think the fog actually is. It is a scientifically proven fact that we have a chemical high through sex that starts to create new neural memory pathways. The others are still there, but when the new ones are created with memories of pleasant chemical release in the brain akin to morphine and drugs better than zoloft, we can't, as humans, help but feel anything other than pleasant when we see, hear, think about, or speak to that AP. That's if the experience was pleasant.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The "fog" is actually brain chemicals that cause humans to bond in a very special way that no other two can. It can happen again and again throughout an individuals life and each time will be different and special for it's own merits. It's something I believe is there to help the human species survive. That's different from what most think the fog actually is. It is a scientifically proven fact that we have a chemical high through sex that starts to create new neural memory pathways. The others are still there, but when the new ones are created with memories of pleasant chemical release in the brain akin to morphine and drugs better than zoloft, we can't, as humans, help but feel anything other than pleasant when we see, hear, think about, or speak to that AP. That's if the experience was pleasant.


I don't get the relevance of this. Yes its a chemical reaction in the brain. So are all emotions. There is no reason to mention it though. I'm pretty sure most people know this.

If someone tells you about a good catch they made in baseball you wouldn't start talking about how the muscles in the body work would you?

Another way to say what you said is a person can be really attracted to more than one person in their life. And when someone has an exciting affair they will remember it fondly. These are things I know. The science behind it doesn't make much difference.

This isn't meant to be insulting. This is why I don't like texting. Things can look like an insult when they aren't meant to be taken that way.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The only relevance was the part about being deluded. If it is natural to have these things happen and a scientific fact, I doubt it's delusion. It is a natural reaction meant to happen to a physical act which happens by choice. I only say that because if it's not choice, I doubt there would be fond memories. Who knows though? I've read some strange things. 

I think we pardon too much when we say they are deluded and it wasn't a choice. I think it's giving a pass when we think it was anything other than choice of when, where, how, and with whom it takes place. 

That's all I meant. I didn't mean to disagree so harshly. Just giving my opinions as I'm freely permitted. No one has to believe any of it.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Okay to clarify regret - I thought my ex felt badly - and last Xmas I was at bus station and she was in tears and gave me a hug and I said "I am sorry for whatever I did in the relationship." to which she replied "all is forgiven" then I went out in the car and thought for a second "hmmm she never apologized to me" so I went back in and said to her "it would help me if you apologized for your behaviour" to which she replied in a very harsh tone "I am not sorry for ANYTHING I've done!". It spoke volumes as to where her head was at.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The only relevance was the part about being deluded. If it is natural to have these things happen and a scientific fact, I doubt it's delusion. It is a natural reaction meant to happen to a physical act which happens by choice. I only say that because if it's not choice, I doubt there would be fond memories. Who knows though? I've read some strange things.
> 
> I think we pardon too much when we say they are deluded and it wasn't a choice. I think it's giving a pass when we think it was anything other than choice of when, where, how, and with whom it takes place.
> 
> That's all I meant. I didn't mean to disagree so harshly. Just giving my opinions as I'm freely permitted. No one has to believe any of it.


I didn't take any offence by what you said. 

I do agree that a WS freely decides to have an affair and I don't like it when a people mention the fog. All it means is they have become attracted to someone else. And since they are really self centred and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves they have the affair.

The delusion I mentioned was a BS who deludes themselves in to believing the WS actually cares for them. There will be some cases where this is true, but some of the threads in here show the WS blatantly doesn't care less for them. 

I also don't like it when people start mentioning bi-polar. According to this site everyone's WS has it. Again its clutching at straws so they can be seen in a better light.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Well my ex feels regret for the consequences of his betrayal (for which I am blamed), but continues to feel complete entitlement for having multiple A's (for which I am blamed). 

He kind of lives in a parallel universe- but at least he's consistent, so there's that. :scratchhead:


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Matt buy your wife a pair of steel toe shoes. Maybe next time she sees him she can have a repeat kick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Well my ex feels regret for the consequences of his betrayal (for which I am blamed), but continues to feel complete entitlement for having multiple A's (for which I am blamed).
> 
> He kind of lives in a parallel universe- but at least he's consistent, so there's that. :scratchhead:


I mean it really is amazing the crap people come up with to justify things isn't it


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SevenYears said:


> I didn't take any offence by what you said.
> 
> I do agree that a WS freely decides to have an affair and I don't like it when a people mention the fog. All it means is they have become attracted to someone else. And since they are really self centred and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves they have the affair.
> 
> ...


Well, I am still somewhat deluded. I think she had to love me to marry me. I struggle with those thoughts daily. I sometimes think she did and sometimes I think she was in denial. I sometimes think she was depressed and thinking that I was as good as she could ever get. That hurts even more. 

I joke with this, but sometimes it's really how I feel except I just want to give up when I feel this way. I really do feel like I am worthless...and I don't know why she would feel this way. I don't know why I was so stupid not to see that she didn't love me. I don't know why she did anything. I just want to understand. 

Love is a hell of a thing when it is so deep on one side and you think everything is good. I think to myself, how bad must life have been for me before x2, if I think what she was doing was loving? I mean, all of the things she did except cheating. How screwed up is that?!

Vinnie Barbarino so confused - YouTube


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> If she just got a job as a teacher, she will be cheating on you again in no time. Teachers, along with medical workers and police officers, have the highest rate on infidelity of any working group. There are several posters on TAM who's WSs are teachers.
> 
> Be vigilant. It won't be long.



And I will add airline employees to that list, as they are given hotels, restaurants and free travel to exotic places to aid to their romantic affairs while the sorry azz spouse stays home and raises the children, takes care of the house, dogs, extended families, plows the snow, cuts the grass, chops the wood, keeps the fire going so when "they" come home their beds and home life is warm and comfy.... Pffffffff

-sammy


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I think so many cheaters (my FWH included) because they are experts in compartmentalizing, living a double life during the affair are also expert at compartmentalizing their regret. They waltz thru life heedless of the destruction they spread until it is shoved in their face. Then the box they stuff their emphathy in is yanked open and they cannot deal with what they have wrought..better just to keep all that shyte locked up. I am envious of the FWs I read about on TAM who express their regret to their BSs repeatedly...while my FWS's actions show his regret to an extent, I would give anything to HEAR him express it spontaniously as I know that would be incredibly proving and difficult for him to do...a true effort at healing me.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

My husband was struggling with anxiety and depression at the time of his brief affair, and he said that DURING their very first sexual encounter he was feeling regret. The OW confirmed some of the things he started doing immediately after that to avoid seeing her. I could see for myself when I looked at the phone records that the texting and phone calls dropped off considerably after that date.

My husband has said that he will have to live with this to his dying day, and his affair will be the thing he will regret the most. D-Day was a year and a half ago and he continues to apologize to me.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

I am back after a couple year break. That is not a good thing. 

I am a WS..... there I said it. I have always tried to dance around the term. I had a most inappropriate friendship with a single mom half my age. No sex never even kissed her. Just gave her way too much of my attention, emotion, time, and financial assistance. My wife and her then fiancee grew most uncomfortable over time and we stopped meeting.

Do I have guilt and regrets.....yes..... of great magnitude. I love my wife in spite of mutual resentments. The life of a WS is not this great wonderful thing....lots of self doubt and self hatred involved. My wife is hurt beyond belief that I put the needs of another woman before her.

From where I stand, unless a WS is mentally damaged and likes to hurt others, it is not a path that one would choose if they knew the end result.

There is of course more going on now with me than this short post expresses. I struggle to write on a phone while in bed getting over a summer cold...uuugghhh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I know a guy (through mutual friends) who has cheated on his W many times, but never been caught.

He constantly obsesses that she might cheat, but that is pure projection.

If you knew this woman, you would know she is as loyal and loving as a wife could be.

But if you defend his wife and point out FACTS and evidence that prove this is all in his head, he'll just respond by saying, "You don't know XXXX, everything is an act she puts on."

Every once in awhile, in some moment of guilt, or whatever, he will say something like, "Well, if she is I guess I deserve it after all I've done...I can't really hold it against her.'

But those times are very transitory.

In general, he has no remorse for what he has done and continues to do.

Soon after he'll be back to treating her horribly, accusing her of cheating, and making threats about what he'll do when he finally finds the evidence and catches her.

Everyone that knows him, tells him he is an a**hole and all of this obsession is just in his own head....he has been such a sh*t to her he is mentally assuming she must act in the same way.

They have separated recently. I actually hope she decides to move on, both for her and their kids sake.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HHH said:


> I am a former WS (blast away) and I feel regret for what I did every day. I wasn't discovered, I told him. I hurt him deeply and it affects him still. We divorced because I didn't want R. I still wouldn't want R now. Yet every day I think about what I did, and feel bad, remorseful, sorry, shameful, dirty etc etc. I will never be able to apologize enough to him.


Are you with your AP now?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

How much regret do they face?

I think their level of regret is directly proportional to the level of their loss, not yours.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

HHH said:


> I am a former WS (blast away) and I feel regret for what I did every day. I wasn't discovered, I told him. I hurt him deeply and it affects him still. We divorced because I didn't want R. I still wouldn't want R now. Yet every day I think about what I did, and feel bad, remorseful, sorry, shameful, dirty etc etc. I will never be able to apologize enough to him.


Don't ever forget that a bad set of actions does not make you into a bad person. I think that many times the WSs on TAM are blasted because it is easier to demonize a WS than it is to truly understand the complicated path to an ea or pa. Stop beating yourself up and spend that time on self analysis to ensure healthier future decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> How much regret do they face?
> 
> I think their level of regret is directly proportional to the level of their loss, not yours.


.... it seems an oversimplification to suggest that all WSs magically lose all sense of empathy for the spouse and family around them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think the thing that bothered me the most about that post was the term used. Former means something to me that is similar to faithful. I figure the reason it's used here is because there is no longer a marriage. In my mind, that's just an explanation of what is on the surface. It shows an ability to compartmentalize in a manner that no faithful spouse seems to be able to do.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> .... it seems an oversimplification to suggest that all WSs magically lose all sense of empathy for the spouse and family around them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Those weren't the words I used.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Those weren't the words I used.


True..... but feeling regret based on the magnitude of your own loss implies the lack of empathy. Possibly I misunderstood your intent. If so I apologize.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Don't ever forget that a bad set of actions does not make you into a bad person. I think that many times the WSs on TAM are blasted because it is easier to demonize a WS than it is to truly understand the complicated path to an ea or pa. Stop beating yourself up and spend that time on self analysis to ensure healthier future decisions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No disrespect (and I mean that), but I think it far easier for a betrayer to call themselves a good person than the betrayed to call their betrayer such.

Just thinking out loud.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SevenYears said:


> I didn't take any offence by what you said.
> 
> I do agree that a WS freely decides to have an affair and I don't like it when a people mention the fog. All it means is they have become attracted to someone else. And since they are really self centred and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves they have the affair.
> 
> ...


Some betrayers won't ever "take their hits", until much later in life. They keep it moving. It comes back on them as they burn bridges and lose friends.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

I acknowledge there is good in almost all betrayers and people in general, some more than others. In the context of making relationships, especially marriage, successful I don't think it is usually enough to simply be a "good person." Rather, I think a person must take "being good" to the next level and be "good for something". Those "somethings" are marital fidelity, loyalty, love, among others. Reminds me of when I was a kid my mom would tell me: it isn't enough to just be good, you gotta be good for something. Good life lesson there.

As for the original question about how much regret betrayers live with? I suppose the answer is as varied as betrayers are. My ex rode off into the sunset 21 years ago and I doubt it's bothered her. It affected me very much like it did the OP. 

Thatpbguy, I know exactly what you are feeling and I still have echos of these feelings all these years later. I think I'm ahead of you a few years on the recovery timeline and I can tell you that I've improved because I'm slowly realizing every day how my current wife is so much better than the "love of my life". 

I finally got smart and wrapped my mind/heart around the fact that my current wife is the true love of my life and the ex was an imposter who had me very deceived. I gave value to the ex because of my faithful feelings, not because of what she merited. I'm so glad I finally got that sorted out.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> No disrespect (and I mean that), but I think it far easier for a betrayer to call themselves a good person than the betrayed to call their betrayer such.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.


Nothing wrong with thinking out loud. And I would never suggest that anyone should think that I am a good person. And based on the gut wrenching stories from BSs on TAM, I know with certainty that they believe their WSs to be bad persons. 

But I truly believe that most WSs have/had no initial intention of hurting others. But heck.... what do I know. My emotional back and forth is why I am back after two years away. A WS can do a lot of damage even while trying not to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Nothing wrong with thinking out loud. And I would never suggest that anyone should think that I am a good person. And based on the gut wrenching stories from BSs on TAM, I know with certainty that they believe their WSs to be bad persons.
> 
> But I truly believe that most WSs have/had no initial intention of hurting others. But heck.... what do I know. My emotional back and forth is why I am back after two years away. A WS can do a lot of damage even while trying not to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think, in general, I agree that betrayers never start out with the intention of causing such pain and hurt. They are too blinded by their own selfishness. But the fact is that they do. Betrayers had their wild time and then pretty much just moved on with their lives. They can never (mark that word- "never") begin to understand the widespread pain they cause.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I think, in general, I agree that betrayers never start out with the intention of causing such pain and hurt. They are too blinded by their own selfishness. But the fact is that they do. Betrayers had their wild time and then pretty much just moved on with their lives. They can never (mark that word- "never") begin to understand the widespread pain they cause.


Until it happens to them. Some leave all others around them in a wake of $hit. And if it happens to them the worst are narcissistic self embellished that complain about people doing the same thing they do to others.

Best to part ways and not complain about it.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

cuchulain36 said:


> Speaking from experience my wife has no guilt or shame over her cheating, she describes it as simply a mistake she made when she was young and she's glad she did it then because she would've done it later anyway. She went from her Dad's house, to her cousin's, to mine and wanted to just be free.
> 
> I think she enjoyed her time and feels no guilt over it at all.
> 
> *The only one living with regret is me for taking her back like an idiot.*




Best news is that you can always reverse that decision.  Tell her your considering divorce and see how she reacts to that!


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

What about people who have more than one affair? Or cheat to move from one relationship to another?

Are they "good people" if they are good in other facets of their life?

Do they "regret"?


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## squareone (Aug 29, 2014)

staystrong said:


> What about people who have more than one affair? Or cheat to move from one relationship to another?
> 
> Are they "good people" if they are good in other facets of their life?
> 
> Do they "regret"?


My partner has done just that, cheated to move into another relationship.

I don't see him as good in any way, shape or form. He's a deceitful, lying POS.

And I don't see why he'd regret a damn thing while he's all cosied up with his new train-wreck.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

HHH said:


> I am a former WS (blast away) and I feel regret for what I did every day. I wasn't discovered, I told him. I hurt him deeply and it affects him still. We divorced because I didn't want R. I still wouldn't want R now. Yet every day I think about what I did, and feel bad, remorseful, sorry, shameful, dirty etc etc. I will never be able to apologize enough to him.


You didn't want to reconcile because you didn't love him anymore, or because you were leaving him for your new honey?
Yeah, I think I'd feel bad about that, too.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Don't ever forget that a bad set of actions does not make you into a bad person. I think that many times the WSs on TAM are blasted because it is easier to demonize a WS than it is to truly understand the complicated path to an ea or pa. Stop beating yourself up and spend that time on self analysis to ensure healthier future decisions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would you say the same about the husbands of the abuse victims that come here? I do believe in most cases, the WS is an abuser. There is intent in what they do. I'm sure there are outliers who did not mean to hurt anyone. I think the majority just don't care if they hurt anyone. I believe they figure, (s)he will get over it and move on, based on what they know about themselves. I don't think they knew their spouse at all.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> I think, in general, I agree that betrayers never start out with the intention of causing such pain and hurt. They are too blinded by their own selfishness. But the fact is that they do. Betrayers had their wild time and then pretty much just moved on with their lives. They can never (mark that word- "never") begin to understand the widespread pain they cause.


Yep, I think they lose the ability to feel empathy and real love.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

staystrong said:


> What about people who have more than one affair? Or cheat to move from one relationship to another?
> 
> Are they "good people" if they are good in other facets of their life?
> 
> Do they "regret"?


I believe the goodness in serial cheaters diminishes much more. I think with each cheating event their ability to nurture relationships on a long term basis is seriously compromised because they lose those special "good" attributes to do so. 

My opinion is these serial cheaters damage themselves so badly they go past the point of no return in being able to be worthwhile partners. 

Even though these sort of folks may do many "good" things outside of the marriage contract, I do not view them as good people.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Here’s what I regret
I regret never really being caught .Because if I was my wife and children could have avoided the following for many years.

I regret:

The pain I caused my wife in the soft confrontation she gave me

The not coming clean with all of it when the wound was fresh

The pain that continued with the uncertainty for the next 25 years

The guilt and self-loathing that fundamentally change me

The years of emotional turmoil I created for my wife and myself

The years of true happiness and emotional security I robbed my entire family of

The years of needless wasted energy used to sustain our marriage instead of energy use to create a better life for my family

The years of self destruction I created

The realization of what a true POS that I am/was

The actions I did to sustain my A

The fact that I let so many people down

The fact that I was not the man my parents raised me to be

Truthfully there are no fond memories of my A……None. When I think of the lying and planning to hook up with my AP.I remember waiting in an alley for well over an hour in the fvcking rain just to be with her. Really what kind of fool does that?

I am remorseful.I show my remorse by my actions not my words I never planned to leave my family I knew what this was. My wife is and was the sweetest angel alive a perfect wife, friend, and lover. She is smart dedicated to all she loves and most importantly faithful.

So why then? Always the question

The answer Broken and weak

I regret my weakness. I was broken and regret not fixing it. I regret giving in to the weakness 

Here is my biggest regret

I have lost honor I will never again regain “Honorable man status”

The saying ….”Those that die with the most toys wins”
Wrong and incomplete

Those that die with the least regrets win
I will never be winner

55


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Nothing wrong with thinking out loud. And I would never suggest that anyone should think that I am a good person. And based on the gut wrenching stories from BSs on TAM, I know with certainty that they believe their WSs to be bad persons.
> 
> But I truly believe that most WSs have/had no initial intention of hurting others. But heck.... what do I know. My emotional back and forth is why I am back after two years away. A WS can do a lot of damage even while trying not to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The definition of a bad person is subjective, we all judge a person bad based on very different criteria. I don't think infidelity necessarily defines a person as being bad - but the act(s) involved are definitely bad. There is absolutely no empathy to find in that kind of betrayal.

I don't believe either that many, if any, WS intend to hurt their spouse. My wife and I had one MC-session right after D-day, big mistake, but one thing was actually worth something - my wife kept saying "I didn't intend to... I wasn't trying to.... I didn't mean to...." untill the MC asked consistantly: "Well, what WAS the intention, then?" She couldn't answer that.

I think (it's my opinion) that the majority of those who choose betrayal, simply hope not to be caught, let it fizzle out and then continue life as if nothing happened. Some call it cake eating. The regret lies in the fact that they were not able to keep it hidden and were caught. This is not empathy.

Empathy is when you feel what the other person feels, feels and identifies with the pain. I don't believe that's an easy task, and not many reach a significant level of empathy, simply because it's just too painful to face the betrayal.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think we base our own thoughts on(what or who is) "bad" in direct relation to what we have experienced in life and how the events make us feel. This is no way to judge, and I'm sorry, we all judge. Every one of us judges or we could not have survived as a species. Condemning, or forcing someone to live a certain way or suffer consequences is the part that is bad about judging. The simple act of deciding who we associate with is not bad. It is judging, though.

In some cases, like consequences(justice), we must force someone to live a certain way for the good of the many. Who decides what is good or bad, if we all have differing opinions and none of them is really wrong?


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Me exh was the ws and he has no regrets, because he's the victim in the failed marriage. He never "planned" his ons, so it should have been a non issue in the divorce. The several women he was texting and FBing should be a non issue because he never "encouraged" the sexual banter. When he would yell at me and tell me "no other man would ever want me", that I'm a "waste of time and money", well I made him mad. He also warned me a divorce would be a bad idea, the kids are still hurting. But it was actually the best thing I ever did, aside from having my kids. 

Even now one year after we were finally able to physically separate, he's still a victim. He's been investigated a couple times for the ways he's treated one of our sons, but again, it's all a misunderstanding. However, even though life has been unfair to him, he was blessed with a wonderful gf who struggles with alcoholism. He'll never regret anything because after all, he was the victim!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

cuchulain36 said:


> After this next tax-return in January I will have zero debt other than student loans, her student loans are in her name, whether I would be required to pay them may need to be worked out in the divorce.
> 
> Our mortgage is very reasonable, my wife wants to upgrade to a bigger home but I convinced her it would be better to either stay in this small house and pay down student loan debt, or sell this house and rent a larger house and not incur more debt.
> 
> ...


I was looking through your old threads when I found this.



> She even messed up my chances at becoming a NY Fireman and Suffolk Sheriff because she wanted the bigger child support payments and I would have taken a massive pay cut to go from the IT field to Fireman or Sheriff. In the case of the NYFD job she hid my physical test appointment letter from me and I missed it, and the Sheriff job she called and said I was living in Queens as my permanent residence and not my mothers on Long Island (I was splitting time between the two places so I never lied).



That is some psycho level sh!t


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> Here’s what I regret
> I regret never really being caught .Because if I was my wife and children could have avoided the following for many years.
> 
> I regret:
> ...


Just got it 55

Your poignant post really gave me pause to think. I've said, thought, and felt some pretty harsh things about cheaters in the past. You and others have probably read some of what I've said here on TAM and cringed. I'm sorry about that.

I realize I should qualify my negative cheater posts with the observation that there are exceptions in almost all things. Your post gives me the impression that you are one of the exceptions and I think there needs to come a time when your self condemnation should morph into glad self 
acceptance and eternal vigilance to avoid a repeat cheating episode.

I truly believe in repentance and forgiveness. If you are truly a changed man you must forgive yourself and give yourself another chance. Of course you must be very careful not to repeat your mistakes, but know this one fact... if you make it through the rest of your life without repeating adultery, you are a winner in my book. This does not mean that you should abandon your present self awareness, but rather simply forgive yourself. 

Honor can be restored and triumph, though lost, can be again won. Though I don't know you I perceive through your post you are one of the rare few who get it. I hope you will love yourself more so that you may better love your wife and kids. Afterall, how can you give what you don't have?

To Just Got It 55 and others who've made the error of infidelity and who've truly reformed; I hope my negative comments have not discouraged you. I'll do better in the future. Any fool can throw out condemning comments but it takes wise decent folks to build up those who've erred. Thank you for helping me see the light.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

just got it 55 said:


> Here’s what I regret
> I regret never really being caught .Because if I was my wife and children could have avoided the following for many years.
> 
> I regret:
> ...


I can't like this enough.

You "get it". 

And honor can be regained through redemption. 
That's the blessing in disguise.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Commonsense & Staystrong

Thank you for the generosity of kindness that I have denied myself for years

I have learned to forgive myself and have restored my marriage to a level of near perfection.

Hence my user name Just Got It

I worked on repair every aspect of our marriage and home. All the years of sacrifice to support our children realize their dreams had a cost. Our home fell in disrepair. Our debt was astronomical.257K in outstanding educational loans alone. Our relationship was undefined but clearly not a husband and wife should be.

I restored our home with very hard work with 2 plus years of weekends and vacation time.

I restored the emotional connection 

I restored intimacy 

My wife has responded in ways that I could only dream about
This without a doubt was only possible through the enormous capacity for forgiveness that my angel wife possesses.

I had felt for years that my angle wife would leave me as soon as your youngest of four children was out of HS.

About 2 years ago I started to work in earnest to repair myself and marriage. I never lacked commitment to my family. What I did do was give up on myself.

Well, all four have graduated for college and grad school.
When my parents died they left me and my brother a substantial inheritance.

To honor my parent’s hard work I paid off all their grandchildren’s school loans

I had owed my wife 75K from her parent’s estate for years.
I put that 75K in my wife’s hands .If she as going to walk away there was her chance.

MY wife now says we have a marriage that she has always dreamt about.

NMMNG & MMSLP AWARENESS &THE FOUR AGREEMENTS were instrumental in my transformation and return to the man my parents raised me to be.

I will have to work on the thought that I have restored myself of “Honorable Man” for simply doing the right thing to repair the damage I have done.

Staystrong…… knowing your story shows that you get it as well. That Good people can lose their way and get caught up in the addiction that is an affair. And to risk all that is sacred and important in life to feed that beast.

Commonsence…… I fight the hypocrisy I feel in myself for being hard on cheaters

Thank you both for your kindness

55

ETA: TAM is a HUGH FACTOR in my POS recovery


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> After this next tax-return in January I will have zero debt other than student loans, her student loans are in her name, whether I would be required to pay them may need to be worked out in the divorce.
> 
> Our mortgage is very reasonable, my wife wants to upgrade to a bigger home but I convinced her it would be better to either stay in this small house and pay down student loan debt, or sell this house and rent a larger house and not incur more debt.
> 
> ...



Not a big fan of 'what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours' marriages but in this case, it may set things up for a cleaner break. Unfortunately it seems like you already have invested significantly into her without any reciprocation so you are on the short end here too. I will say this, I applaud the fact that you have made up your mind. I think you will win in the end on it. It has to be brutal to live everyday knowing what happened and staying together with her has to be brutal. You have a lot of strength. Your point in saying she wants a bigger house tells me that she doesn't see this coming. So surprise is in your corner. Just make sure it doesn't become a 'what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine' type situation.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Yes it does.
> 
> Even after all these years, I know she still has loving feelings for her former AP. So, I'm still plan b.


sorry to hear this Matt. I wouldn't be able to stay with my wife if she had this attitude. However, our situations may be very much different


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