# The "Second Date Rule"...



## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I'm currently re-reading Dr. Robert Glover's "No More Mr Nice Guy" and he mentions something I found to be interesting. He states that when he's working with men with what he calls "Nice Guy Syndrome", to help them decide if they need to set boundaries with specific behaviors, he has them apply this rule. Basically, these guys ask themselves "If this behavior had occurred on the second date, would there have been a third date?"

What kinds of behaviors do you think you would have applied this rule to in your current or past relationships?


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@hubbyintrubby,

Looking at your very first post/thread, the kinds of behaviors I'd think of applying this rule would be something like this: 

"If she just refused to be caring to your children because she felt put out on the second date, would there have been a third date?"

"If there had been a major blow up once a week after the second date, would there have been a third date?"

"If she had told you in great detail all the things you cannot do right on the second date, would there have been a third date?"

"If she had been good to her own children and rotten to yours on the second date, would there have been a third date?"

"If you had seen how intense her anger is on the second date, would there have been a third date?"

Get the idea? 

In other words, it's about identifying the behaviors that are not only disrespectful to you, but crossing the line into abusive and harmful to you. We do not need to tolerate or accept disrespect, but when it is so severe that it's abusive and harming you, you really do need to stop being "nice" and respect yourself more. Set a firm boundary and stand by it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep, that's a good rule for both men and women to follow.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Let's just say that if I don't get positive vibes from Date#1, Date#2 is a reasonable impossibility!*


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> In other words, it's about identifying the behaviors that are not only disrespectful to you, but crossing the line into abusive and harmful to you.


Unfortunately, it's not really a question of which "date". This stuff shows up after the nuptials.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TJW said:


> Unfortunately, it's not really a question of which "date". This stuff shows up after the nuptials.


Largely because we don't appropriately vet, set boundaries, and establish what "privacy" means to each person and understand how important it is not to take advantage of one party being more trusting than the other. We also don't talk about the dangers of parallel lives and the need for a gut check/MC/whatever at regular intervals. Nor do we talk about why it is such a HUGE red flag if one party thinks the marriage is great, or at least very good, while the other doesn't (because by definition marriage is the two parties together and thus figuring out if it's a good marriage or not is not to be determined by just one party).

This stuff isn't rocket science. It's just totally ignored by pre-marriage counselor and not given enough, if any, thought by the two getting married.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

TJW said:


> Unfortunately, it's not really a question of which "date". This stuff shows up after the nuptials.


 @TJW it is my understanding that we are talking about a technique that @hubbyintrubby read about in "No More Mr. Nice Guy"...and the technique is called "The Second Date Rule." The idea is kind of like "If I had known then what I know now, would I have even asked this person out again?" and here's why. Often a manipulator will pull a DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim and Offender) and somehow blame THEIR bad behavior on you. Then you start to think, "Hey...could it possibly be me? Or is it maybe my issue?" This technique is to help a person determine if it is them and their issue...or if it is realistically the other person's problem. 

A "Nice Guy" will tolerate disrespect and abuse and respond with being nice in an effort to make the other person treat them nice back. This technique is a quick way to figure "Is it them or me?" So if they did that on the second date and you wouldn't as for another ... it's them.  

Some more examples:

"If s/he blew me off on the second date and didn't explain or apologize, I wouldn't ask for another date."

"If s/he called me derogatory names on the second date, I wouldn't ask for another date."

"If s/he outright lied to me, was caught, and then proceeded to blame me on the second date, I wouldn't ask for another date."

Make sense?


----------



## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I guess, to me, the bigger issues is...why do we tolerate the things we shouldn't? We see these red flags, yet we slalom right past them. For what? In the name of love? To be loved? Is it a matter of the good outweighing the bad until it just doesn't matter anymore?


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Is it a matter of the good outweighing the bad until it just doesn't matter anymore?


Yes.

period 1: good outweighs bad
period 2: memories of good prevail over bad
period 3: memories and good become "not worth" bad
period 4: cost of escaping bad prevails over bad
period 5: any cost is "worth it" to escape bad


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I think looking back on an old relationship to see the red flags is helpful, to a degree. More importantly is to recognize them early on in a new relationship and even more important is to not dismiss them. Red flags now should equal moving on to the next person, if what you seek is a meaningful, healthy relationship.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I haven't read the book admittedly, but to me that advice is basically pointless. Of course I could look at a failed long term relationship and point out the faults of each individual that ultimately led to it ending. But in real life, I think the real test is really a few months or even a year or so in. Thats when you're not all googly eyed anymore and you can see each others faults. I think some people at this point in the relationship lie to themselves. They feel too invested to throw in the towel, so they move forward. Also nothing wrong with being invested, sometimes a lot of those things can be worked out if you both feel the other is worth it. 

I guess what I'm saying is, its likely that if you're a man that needs NMMNG, that you repeat the same thing all over again, because I think its the fear of moving forward that keeps guys like that stuck in less than ideal situations for years. I think there is this perception that alpha men don't end up picking less than ideal mates. Thats not true, the difference is in how its handled. You'll get out of it sooner if you have a higher sense of self worth.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I guess, to me, the bigger issues is...why do we tolerate the things we shouldn't? We see these red flags, yet we slalom right past them. For what? In the name of love? To be loved? Is it a matter of the good outweighing the bad until it just doesn't matter anymore?


Another thread asked this question...

I think it comes down to 1) sometimes "nice guys-in the negative sense, 2) false scarcity paradigm, 3) Frog and hot water 4) and god know what else... 

For me I think it come to understanding relationships and what is proper treatment and what is not...

Once you love yourself and understand how you should be loved, I think you understand what you don't want...


----------

