# Male late 30s 2 kids (baby and 4yrs) torn and confused...



## DuncanA (Apr 17, 2011)

I need a fresh pair of eyes on my dilemma and I would be very appreciative for any words of insight that might be given in this thread. To post this, to put it into existence, is an acknowledgment that I can no longer endure putting my head down, trying to simply fight through my discontent and pain silently. 

I’m in my late 30’s and have 2 kids (4 yrs and under 1 yr). What else is there to note by way of the core facts? I won’t divulge my childhood although it’s certainly relevant. Suffice it to say that I am in a relationship with little love. We met when we were young. Honestly, I don’t know how to put the details here without divulging too much. 

I am a very devoted father. My career was chosen in order to afford me the ability to be hands-on. It certainly has to do with addressing my own childhood and the failings of my father, but I find more joy in my children (esp. the 4 yr old) than anything I could have imagined. But my wife and I… It’s unhealthy, unfulfilling and a burden on us both. She says that it is because of the strain of a relatively new child and that with sleep, things will get better. If that makes it sound like she’s fighting to stay together, well that’s partially correct. She doesn’t want to separate. But her words and actions towards me do not indicate any ability or willingness to change. She may be depressed and certainly is not able to control herself in dialogue. I have listened to such onslaughts on my character, my most intimate and painful experiences are thrown at me like feces in the midst of our arguments. But there is also no intimacy and hasn’t been for a long time (a couple painful, planned events that usually end poorly). So yes, we’ve tried. We haven’t been to counseling and I’m not sure I even believe in it. It’s ironic because I want some fresh perspective from this anonymous group, but I don’t want a trained 3rd party to mediate between us. It may sound strange… I don’t know. 

I don’t know what I’m trying to achieve through this. What response could possibly shed light on an impossible situation? Do I put my head down, crush my ego and stay in this relationship? Do I leave and watch the fabric of my family tear apart? She is also not from this country and it is a very real possibility that she would go back if we split. This would mean that I would have to move there to be close to my kids. I’ve told myself that I would do it, no doubt. But the more I think about unsettling my life in order to accommodate hers and my kids, the more it sounds like what I’ve been doing for the past 5 years or so.
I’ll stop here. Thanks for listening/ reading.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

You don't know if you believe in marriage counseling? However you can't seem to fix it on your own?

Step up and be a man, lead your marriage where it needs to go. That may be counseling, and you won't know untill you get there and give it a try.

Isn't it worth saving your marriage?

It would be helpful to have the full picture here, what do you fight about most? what does she throw in your face etc.

As for the young child thing, I know young children do change the dynamic and make intimacy difficult. But that is something that will change over time if you are both willing to put the effort in.

How is the dynamic in the rest of your relationship, are you a nice guy? a doormat? An angry person? I think you need to tell us more.


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## DuncanA (Apr 17, 2011)

Did you just tell me to, "step up and be a man"? What utter nonsense. If that's what you need to tell yourself to feel strong, more power to you. I find it a weak argument based on a flawed assumption of gender essentialism.

Maybe this thread was a mistake.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

DuncanA said:


> Did you just tell me to, "step up and be a man"? What utter nonsense. If that's what you need to tell yourself to feel strong, more power to you. I find it a weak argument based on a flawed assumption of gender essentialism.
> 
> Maybe this thread was a mistake.


Ok lol.

I am just telling you from my perspective as a woman. if you don't think there are gender differences in your relationship, I have no idea how that happened because you must live outside societal and biological influences in a bubble somewhere.

I meant no harm by saying that.

I myself like my SO to be manly and to have leadership qualities and to to lead our relationship. It makes me feel safe and secure, when he lets me know that everything will be OK and exactly what he is going to do to make sure this happens.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

DuncanA,I feel for you. My situation is very similar to yours. Currently I am on the fence, mainly for my kids.

About your W being from another country, go and consult a lawyer. If you divorce, fight for custody of your kids. I don't think that she can just pick up and leave with your kids to another country. A lawyer will tell you what can and can't be done.

I know that there are even restrictions on taking the kids to a separate state here in the US.


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## DuncanA (Apr 17, 2011)

Syrum- I don't feel compelled to play that role. It would make things easier, but unfortunately it's not the case for us.
Running- Even if I could, I would never take my kids away from their mom. It's not an option.


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## DonnaM (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi, it is really difficult when you're going through something as you are, any marriage can be difficult and has its moments, good and or bad. You don't want to see a marriage counselor or anyone like that - that's what you said? Perhaps there's more to that? 

Do you guys communicate openly? Have you tried sitting down and having a talk with her, really having a talk might be of some help. Just letting her know how you feel, and that in turn may let her open up to you. If you don't have the type of relationship where you communicate with each other, I mean really communicate, then how are you going to know what she's feeling and how she really feels? She might be getting vibes from you and may be perhaps reacting unconsciously? Could it be that you two need more alone time together, not just being intimate, but getting to know each other all over again? It's kind of difficult to respond not really knowing a bit more w/o getting all into your business!lol! Does her culture comes into play with how she behaves? But, let me say, obviously there is more going on here, you know what they are, we don't, and perhaps you need to really sit down and decide if you want to save your marriage or not, then take it from there.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

DuncanA said:


> Running- Even if I could, I would never take my kids away from their mom. It's not an option.


I don't think you should either. I meant for you to go for shared custody, something like 50/50, and her and the kids staying close to where you guys are now. But only you know your situation. Just food for thought.


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## akcroy (Dec 23, 2010)

@DuncanA, I'll go completely off track here - why don't all of you go for a holiday somewhere? Try to have fun together. Sometimes when all is lost, a break can do wonders. Divorce and divorce-ish talks with your wife can resume when you're back.

On a different note, I understand why you didn't appreciate @Syrum's gender-centric viewpoint in her first reply. But you have to realize that all of us here are trying (and, emphasis on trying) to read your situation as best as we can with a view to helping you. And of course the language/stereotypes we might use/evoke will only be a product of our efforts to help.

Provided you understand that (if you don't please stop reading), I'll throw in my experience here - my wife is adamant on being considered as capable as a man in every aspect. She's very conscious about this, and for example she will tell me from time to time how much she resents cooking (although she loves it and is good at it) because society seems to pose cooking as a female specialty in the household sphere. 

I have always respected her anti-stereotypical consciousness and actually agree with her. However, I was flabbergasted to find out that despite all that strong talk, in many cases she wants me to be in 'man of the house' mode. Turns out she would actually misinterpret my acknowledgement of her flamboyant gender-damning stance as meekness in general on my part. 

I'm not suggesting you should step up and be the man and take your marriage problem by the horns here - but can it be that your wife has often felt the same about you?

Sorry if any offense caused, wasn't my intention.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

DuncanA said:


> My career was chosen in order to afford me the ability to be hands-on. It certainly has to do with addressing my own childhood and the failings of my father, but I find more joy in my children (esp. the 4 yr old) than anything I could have imagined. But my wife and I… It’s unhealthy, unfulfilling and a burden on us both. .


I think you misunderstood Syrum's advice. It's not necessarily wrong, but you write with passive action, such as in the first sentence above. It leaves a reader a little unclear. Did you choose this career? Sounds like you let someone choose it for you. Its a small point, but in the rest of the post, I think it would be helpful to talk about what you have done to try to move the relationship to a closer level. 

When you add that to an unexplained avoidance of couseling, it just gives the impression that you could be waiting for her to fix her stuff. I doubt that's the case.

You'll find that its a popular theme on this site that guys who are passive, and pleasers tend to find themselves taken advantage of. I don't know if this is your issue, but there's not much to offer given the brevity of the post in regards to your participation in the relationship.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

You confuse me. Your wife may leave the country and take your kids, why won't you fight to have the grow up in the country of their birth. She having mental issues and you defer to her. Dude, motherhood is not magical. If children have to grow up in a single parent household, the best choice is the parent who can provide the most "stable" loving household. Why do you put yourself out of the running.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Duncan,
How did she treat you in the beginning? When did she start saying/doing "mean things" to you such as exploiting her knowledge of your painful past? 

Was your sex life ever good? 

When did it stop? 

I truly believe that in most marriages, the more "passive/conflict avoidant" the male becomes, the more aggressive the female becomes. It might seem to you, that she became more aggressive first and you began to choose conflict avoidance more and more because she was behaving more aggressively. But the typical dynamic is much more like this:
1. Wife does something aggressive, husband responds ineffectively by either: 
a. doing nothing
b. trying to defuse her in a submissive manner - for instance apologizing to try to defuse her aggression even though he is not in the wrong 
c. getting visibly angry and saying things that show he has lost control of his behavior (and then typically apologizing later while she does not apologize for initiating hostilities)
2. Wife quickly figures out that she is getting the better of these exchanges and increases either the frequency or intensity while husband tries to make peace at any price
3. Wife quickly loses respect for her H and with it she also loses any sexual attraction she feels. This is not a "choice" on her part. Her desire really does go away in this situation.

You can run this process in reverse. It does NOT require you to be "dominant". It simply requires that you not allow her to continue to "dominate" you. Huge difference between preventing someone from walking all over you, and trying to walk all over them. 

Am I off base here?







DuncanA said:


> I need a fresh pair of eyes on my dilemma and I would be very appreciative for any words of insight that might be given in this thread. To post this, to put it into existence, is an acknowledgment that I can no longer endure putting my head down, trying to simply fight through my discontent and pain silently.
> 
> I’m in my late 30’s and have 2 kids (4 yrs and under 1 yr). What else is there to note by way of the core facts? I won’t divulge my childhood although it’s certainly relevant. Suffice it to say that I am in a relationship with little love. We met when we were young. Honestly, I don’t know how to put the details here without divulging too much.
> 
> ...


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