# Not sure what to do



## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

Hi all. I will try to keep this as concise as possible. Last June my wife of 25 years told me that she had been seeing someone else for about 3 months and that she was planning to leave me but was convinced by a friend to tell me about it and to give me a chance. 

She says that she had felt lonely and taken for granted for many years. I admit that I have intimacy issues but I was a good husband and father (three children 17, 20, 23). She said that I was a good man but that that was not enough. She needed passion and needed to feel attractive and desirable. 

I consulted with a Pastor friend and he said that I must do everything to prove to her that I was willing to change and that I wanted to save the marriage and to prove to her that I still desire her and think she is beautiful. For the last eleven months I have proven to her that I am not the man she thought I was. I adore her and she knows it. She now says that I have been wonderful and amazing to her. 

For the first three months she was an emotional wreck. Crying, not eating or sleeping. Part of the issue was depression but part of it was that she wanted to leave me to be with him but he did not want to leave his wife. So I ended up comforting her through the heartache of being rejected by the man she cheated on me with. We went to counseling for a few months but she just could not talk about it and always broke down crying and sobbing. She said that she was not ready to say that she wanted to save the marriage and was not ready for counseling. I have done 90% of the talking and she has said very little about what she is feeling and thinking. 

We have gotten along very well in the last 10 months. 
She told a friend that this has been the best year of our marriage. We spend 80% of our time together and talk and laugh and it feels great, with one exception, she won't have sex with me. It has been 13-14 months now. We engage in foreplay. I satisfy her 2-3 times per week but she has not satisfied me once and she cannot even kiss me romantically. I give her long back rubs and but I do not sense that she is comfortable touching me. She will cuddle up to me in our sleep and I can touch her and she will readily get naked but she will not touch me back in any kind of desirous way, even to give a back rub.

So, a year is coming up and I believe I need to be honest with her about my non-negotiable issues. She said recently that I am her best friend and that she cannot imagine living without me but she admitted that she does not have romantic feelings for me. But right after that we had one of our most passionate nights and she did kiss me out of passion and I'm pretty sure she would have had sex but the other two times it went too far she cried. So I am fearful of taking it too fast. 

My main question is, should I just keep being patient, thinking that she will continue to grow back into the relationship or should I basically say that the situation is unacceptable (I am hurt and insulted that she does not desire me after a passionate affair) and that she has to want to go to counseling to figure this out because I cannot live in a marriage that is so one sided?

I think that part of the reason she has not left is because she does not have a job and has no money or no place to go. She seems to wants it both ways. I think I may have to force her to make a decision to stay or go. I just feel that she has to say that she is committed to save the marriage. I think I have been incredibly patient and I don't want this to go on 2-3 years with her then announcing that she met someone else and is leaving. I am sure the affair is over BTW. Thanks for your insight.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

What did the mans wife have to say about it? 
She isn't giving you another chance. You are giving her one. She can put on her big girl pants and deal with your terms, if not go get a divorce lawyer .

You are her back up plan
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

This has been your situation for a long time and it is not likely going to change until she meets someone new. From my experience, I suggest spending the next two months working on yourself to increase your self confidence, mostly by going to the gym to get in great shape. The progress you see in yourself from working out seems to give a lot of men self confidence and something to focus on. There is a small chance that your wife will notice this internal and external change in you and will see you differently. By that time, you may not even want her anymore.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Her priority list, I'm afraid:

Me
The other man

The end.

Seems its always "I need, I need".


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I think she is very selfish.

Time for her to change or leave.

Time for you to give her a choice.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> For the first three months she was an emotional wreck. Crying, not eating or sleeping. Part of the issue was depression but part of it was that she wanted to leave me to be with him but he did not want to leave his wife. So I ended up comforting her through the heartache of being rejected by the man she cheated on me with. We went to counseling for a few months but she just could not talk about it and always broke down crying and sobbing. She said that she was not ready to say that she wanted to save the marriage and was not ready for counseling. I have done 90% of the talking and she has said very little about what she is feeling and thinking.


This is the issue right here. She cheated, never dealt with it, was rewarded with a better marriage, a comforting husband concerned with her loss of OM and got you to accept the blame. She was rewarded with a continuing marriage while she waits for her "lover" to come back. Heck, sounds like she is remaining "intercourse" loyal for him. 14 months o no sex? Dude no. It's one thing if it is a sex drive issue, but this is one based on infidelity.

First, whoever is giving you this type of advice needs to be cut out of the marital loop. If it is your pastor, oh well, he needs to be removed from this portion. You've done everything wrong from what I have read or experienced. 

Second, you need to reevaluate the advice you received. Putting your wife on a pedestal and showing your wife you love her are two different things. You can do everything the Pastor stated while still setting boundaries, setting up consequences and being strong about your marriage.

You comforted her about her affair, that's wrong on so many levels. 

No offense, but you are treating her like a victim, is there a reason?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello Neon and sorry that you are here. When you say that she was "seeing" another man for 3 months last June - you mean sleeping with him, right? Because you also go on to say that she cannot have sex with you after such a passionate affair (I am assuming the passion was physical).

Here are my comments:


Why do you still want to be with her after she has rejected you and cheated on you so disrespectfully ?
She had already made her choice (and is kind of sticking with it). The only thing that you have proved so far is that you are a "wonderful" man which translates to good provider, faithful companion and all-round doormat.
She is not sleeping with you and cannot sleep with you because she is loyal to him. You are effectively now the OM.
She is far from remorseful for what she had done - just sorry for the way it has panned out. She got the jitters when somebody convinced her to "give you a chance". Very entitled of her.
This marriage is not going to get better unless you take some drastic steps like kicking her out and initiating divorce proceedings full speed ahead!
Your Pastor sounds like a right idiot!
This could well have been going on for a lot longer. She decides to throw away a 25 year marriage based on just 3 months? Possible but worth investigating/digging deeper.
You also need to start blowing up this affair - does the POSOM have a family ? Would exposing him to his work colleagues, family etc have an impact on him ?

Make sure that you and yours are protected including your finances etc. Then initiate divorce proceedings immediately. And expose, expose, expose while this is going on. Let them both feel the Wrath of Neon.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer like yesterday. By Athol Kay 

Memorize it and do it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

your being used she blames your for everthing you need to turn the table own her she needs to be the one putting all the work in in it. you my have been a bad husband buT she is the one that lied to you ALL THE TIME


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Neon said:


> I think that part of the reason she has not left is because she does not have a job and has no money or no place to go. She seems to wants it both ways.


 Ya think so? I got news for you. She wants you for a roof over her head and food in her stomach.

You made a serious mistake the day you comforted her selfish ass when the OM dumped her. All you did was make matters worse not to mention your pastor who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Here's the whole thing in a nutshell. She cheated on you, got dumped and you took her back without giving her any consequences for her piss poor behavior.

Now, she's all nice and comfy in her house and what are you getting. A room mate that has little or no respect for you and she proves it every night when you reach for your wife and shuts you down. hell you can't even get a decent kiss from the woman and whose fault is it? it's yours pal because you rolled over and played dead.

Now you have a real problem and it's time that you find your misplaced back bone and let her know that her behavior stinks to high heaven and your sick to death of being treated like something she scrapped off her show and it's time fro her to find another place to live because she wore out her welcome. 

Why you would put up with something so despicable in her way of treating you is beyond me. You need to take charge of the situation and real fast. You created this monster and now you need to tame it or destroy it before it destroys you. 

I


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This is the issue right here. She cheated, never dealt with it, was rewarded with a better marriage, a comforting husband concerned with her loss of OM and got you to accept the blame. She was rewarded with a continuing marriage while she waits for her "lover" to come back. Heck, sounds like she is remaining "intercourse" loyal for him. 14 months o no sex? Dude no. It's one thing if it is a sex drive issue, but this is one based on infidelity.


:iagree:

This is exactly right. You have sucked up to her for almost a year and it hasn’t worked. She needs to win you back not the other way around. 

Look up the 180 and do it. Tell her that your last kid is almost out of the house and you want a divorce. She needs to realize that she has something to lose. All she has done so far is gain from the affair. 

If I kick you in the balls will I get a backrub?

File now and show her the papers. Divorce takes time and you can always stop the process if she shapes up.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I would imagine it would be hard to be attracted to plan B.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Your pastor while he had good intentions does NOT know what he is talking about. You did the absolute wrong thing.

Your wife is not attracted to you because you are a woman not a man. You are a 'friend'. She wants a man. She wants someone that she can RESPECT. A man would have kicked her butt out of the house for disrespecting him and having an affair. You did the opposite.

Stop being a friend and be the Honey Badger! Take what you want. You cannot NICE a WS back. It has never worked. It will not work for you. You need her respect. Go out and become a man and demand it from her or tell her to hit the road.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

I agree with every response you've gotten so far. She does not sound like she is worth any additional effort on your part. Don't consult with that pastor any more. I think you should start looking for another companion.........tomorrow. I'm not kidding.....


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Did I miss it or is your old lady still in contact with the POSOM?

If your old lady is still in contact with this scumb, then the marriage is toast. Stop screwing around and show your old lady you are confident enough to just let her go. Ya its a pain in the butt to go down this road and risk this life investment, but you getting walked on and that's phucked up so change it by having the confidence to show her what you will and will not tolorate in a marriage.

From we're I'm sitting your old lady has your number and knows you ain't going anywhere .

Why change when one has no consequences?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Hi Neon,

Can't offer you a 'what to do' advice here as I'm not 'experienced' enough or know the situation enough (recently I had to deal with the 'family complication' myself, so may not be 100% objective here). And - at an emotional level - I agree with all the posts above. 

However, what I can probably offer you - is the way to 'make a critical decision under stress' because that is what I do and been coached to do. Fortunately I don;t seem to have to make a split second decision here.

I suggest you sit down and separate (in writing if you wish) facts from 'fiction'; by fiction I mean everything that is based on opinion/hearsay/3rd party knowledge that could be biased or based on incomplete info. Based on you own story here:

*Facts:*
-your wife of had been seeing someone else. (3 months or 6 months is not critical at this moment; I also it got physical, you can confirm that)
- she was planning to leave you 
- For 11 months you were trying to do your best 
- For the first three months she was an emotional wreck.... she wanted to leave you to be with him but he did not want to leave his wife _(I assume that what she told you so I assume it's fact)_
- Went to counseling, She said that she was not ready to say that she wanted to save the marriage and was not ready for counseling
- she won't have sex with you _(I'm not going to quote the whole paragraph, but you know what's there)_
- She said recently that you are her best friend and that she cannot imagine living without you but she admitted that she does not have romantic feelings for you. 
- Two times it went too far she cried
- part of the reason she has not left is because she does not have a job and has no money or no place to go.

*Fiction*
- She was convinced by a friend to tell you about it and to give you a chance
- she had felt lonely and taken for granted for many years, needed passion, etc, etc
- she thinks you a good man
- Pastor said that you must do everything to prove to her... _(emotional comment from me: did you really expect pastor to tell you to dump the b%$%$ch?. That's why its fiction)_
- She now says that you have been wonderful and amazing to her _(clearly this was not enough, so goes to the fiction bucket)_
- She told a friend that this has been the best year of your marriage. 


So the only thing I'm suggesting here is a) get your facts separated from fiction; b) make you decision based on facts only; c) make your decision with your interest as a priority

HTH


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Since you've taken your pastor's advice, let's throw some Biblical perspective onto this. The Bible says that women should obey their husbands (modern translations often use the word 'respect', but that's not as precise; however, it's still more than you're getting). The Bible says the wife should not sexually deprive her husband. The Bible is quite severe when it comes to adultery, for that matter. In fact, there is no record of what to do with an adulteress in the New Testament. In the OT they were killed. The only record we have in the NT is when Jesus tells the women caught in the act and dragged out to be stoned in front of him to go away and sin no more. It doesn't say whether or not her husband had to take her back. And I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't instruct him to give her back rubs. 

Sure, be a better husband, but that does not mean you have to be a doormat. Be nice if you think you should be. However, be a leader.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MSP said:


> Since you've taken your pastor's advice, let's throw some Biblical perspective onto this. The Bible says that women should obey their husbands (modern translations often use the word 'respect', but that's not as precise; however, it's still more than you're getting). The Bible says the wife should not sexually deprive her husband. The Bible is quite severe when it comes to adultery, for that matter. In fact, there is no record of what to do with an adulteress in the New Testament. In the OT they were killed. The only record we have in the NT is when Jesus tells the women caught in the act and dragged out to be stoned in front of him to go away and sin no more. It doesn't say whether or not her husband had to take her back. And I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't instruct him to give her back rubs.
> 
> Sure, be a better husband, but that does not mean you have to be a doormat. Be nice if you think you should be. However, be a leader.


:iagree::iagree:
Hammer meet nail.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Neon

Trust your gut.

Force a decision.

It takes two to fix a marriage. And her decision to cheat on you does not fix her issues but only compound them.

So you have worked on your issues in the marriage.

But she has not.

But worse than that is she has not worked on her inner issues that allowed her to cheat on you and worse, justify it in her mind that it was ok.

I think you need to get some answers from your wife. It is time she made a commitment to you.

Since she has not worked on her issues it is very likely she could go cheat again.....

HM


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

IF - your wife had not cheated on you first - then I would agree with your pastor friend. If your wife had not cheated then yes, try to be a better husband.

BUT - this is not the case. I had been a chaplain and pastor since the mid 80's either full time or part time and gave up my ordination about two years ago.

The pastor I went to last year after I caught my wife cheating on me again told me to divorce my wife. Then he met with my wife and believed her lies. He then lied to my wife about what I said to him and he lied to my wife's family.

Just like any profession there are good ones and bad ones and some just don't get it.

The pastor did you a disservice under the circumstances. If he knew your wife was cheating on you then it was boneheaded advice he gave you to woe her.

I don't have a problem when a pastor tries to reconcile a marriage under most situations. I may not agree but I do understand that many pastors will strive for couples to reconcile. 

Some will say that the two of you are to blame. I disagree. There are situations in life where one is not at fault and the other one is completely, 100% to blame. In most cases of adultery that holds true.

Your wife is not repenting nor is she remorseful. She is not acting as a wife.

From a biblical perspective you are free to divorce your wife. You have shown great patience, but now is the time to end your misery.

My recommendations:

1. Get tested for STD's
2. Pray
3. Talk to a lawyer and don't let your wife know about it.
4. Start the 180 hard.
5. Pull out your money into a separate account, pay all the bills, shut down her cell phone and cut her off from the money.
6. Expose the Affair.
7. Don't plead with her, don't beg her, don't cry in front of her. Don't engage her.

Your marriage was over a long time ago and she killed it.

File for divorce. If she repents and you see real change you can always stop but don't file if you don't mean to follow through.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Sorry OP but this is as plan B as it gets.

"she was planning to leave me but was *convinced by a friend to tell me about it and to give me a chance.* "

DAFUQ?!

The audacity to even say that your face. Jeez. That's not even blame shifting, that's straight up saying you are inferior.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Dude, seriously, read the book mentioned previously...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MovingAhead said:


> Stop being a friend and be the Honey Badger!


"Honey Badger don't care! Honey Badger don't give a f*ck!"

LOL. Love it.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Neon said:


> My main question is, should I just keep being patient, thinking that she will continue to grow back into the relationship or should I basically say that the situation is unacceptable (I am hurt and insulted that she does not desire me after a passionate affair) and that she has to want to go to counseling to figure this out because I cannot live in a marriage that is so one sided?
> 
> I think that part of the reason she has not left is because she does not have a job and has no money or no place to go. She seems to wants it both ways. I think I may have to force her to make a decision to stay or go. I just feel that she has to say that she is committed to save the marriage. I think I have been incredibly patient and I don't want this to go on 2-3 years with her then announcing that she met someone else and is leaving. I am sure the affair is over BTW. Thanks for your insight.


My insight is that because you are plan B, and you ACCEPT you are plan B, she has zero respect or desire for you as a lover, but is unable to live without your physical support.

You handled the initial announcement of her affair wrongly by trying to nice her out of it, and now it's backfiring on you because your "niceness" is sexually repellant to her.

She cries and is depressed because she is stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read the thread of RoadScholar who was in the same situation as you. His sexless R lasted 5 months. When his wife saw in his eyes that he was going to divorce her, she began to experience sexual desire for him.

Remember your wife was in love with OM for a period of time. It took time for her to get off the OM high. Ejaculate contains substances that made her in combination with orgasm feel really good.

A poster named Machiavelli is expert on the biochemistry. He can explain.

Read MMSLP. Distance yourself from your wife. Do the 180. This will force her to consider losing you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Neon said:


> *She said that I was a good man but that that was not enough. She needed passion and needed to feel attractive and desirable*.
> 
> Yep giant red flag but more on that later
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's time for you to tell you what your needs are. 

I suggest that you get the books "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs"... read them, have her read them. Then do the work layed out in "His Needs, Her Needs".

A HUGE part of the problem here is that all the blame here has been put on YOU. 

You and your wife share the state of your marriage before she decided to cheat... 50/50.

Your wife has 100% responsibility for her choice to cheat. It sounds like this has not been dealt with yet. You have done a very good job of what "Surviving an Affair" calls "Plan A". But now it's time for your wife to do the work she needs to do.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Neon,

I think you need to confront her on this bs.

I would make a point of throwing her crappy excuse back at her too.

Remind her that she blamed her A on you not supporting her emotionally and taking her for granted.

Tell her that the shoe is now on the other foot because this is exactly how you feel now.

But unlike her, you will keep your honor and integrity.

Therefore, instead of cheating on her, you are simple going to file for D, because you will not live in a loveless M to a woman who has betrayed you and then followed up her disgusting cheating by refusing to make any effort to heal you or the M.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

@Neon, file for Divoce and expose affair. Go Dark. Only communicate about kids and only through email. Go hit the gym. Get cut, get confident go out and get some. 

Then sit back and watch the show as she starts having "second thoughts" and "feelings" for you again. Then you can either bang her out for awhile or just string her along. 

But first, you gotta pull the plug on this sexless marriage with a cheating, lying ho.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

*^^^^What they said ^^^^*


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> @Neon, file for Divoce and expose affair. Go Dark. Only communicate about kids and only through email. Go hit the gym. Get cut, get confident go out and get some.
> 
> Then sit back and watch the show as she starts having "second thoughts" and "feelings" for you again. Then you can either bang her out for awhile or just string her along.
> 
> But first, you gotta pull the plug on this sexless marriage with a cheating, lying ho.


Not entirely true on it being sexless. She gets lots of it..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I agree with what's been said. I would like to add, that people not in a relationship can have physical sex with out any emotional attachment just because the get horney.

Your wife can't have sex with you because she is being faithful to the other man. The man she loves even though it MAY be a fantasy.

I would like to know how you know its over. Many here have found the affair just went underground even though they were sure it was over. How are you verifying that it is indeed over?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

movin on said:


> What did the mans wife have to say about it?
> She isn't giving you another chance. You are giving her one. She can put on her big girl pants and deal with your terms, if not go get a divorce lawyer .
> 
> You are her back up plan
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS!!

Sounds like if this pos om was NOT married, she would be GONE

you are plan b

SHE is a cheater

if THIS om is NOT available, the NEXT ONE MIGHT BE

she needs consequences NOW, before she moves on to the next om...file for d, do the 180, she wants out so effing bad, she has NO romantic feelings for you, so let her go

if SHE wants to make up for the affair, do the heavy lifting to make it up to you, thats up TO HER...either way its about you from now on...get fit, get healthy, work out, get back to the hobbies you gave up to be married to this cheater...SHE needs to be making the changes and doing the work, SHE cheated...she didnt haplessly and accidentlly fall in love with someone else, she worked at it

ALSO...TELL THE POS OM'S WIFE ABOUT IT...EXPOSE TO HER NOW...and expose to everyone else as well, family, friends...she is in an affair fog and the only way to get her head straightened out is to tell everyone, so there is no one for her to lie to


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Another long term marriage, busted by the ugly. When is it people realize that the grass next door, is still just grass. Intimacy is absolutely the tie that binds. If you are lacking in that area, something will break. Having a family with three kids is def hard. A lot of things do drop by the wayside. But with hard work a marriage can stand the tests of time. I never understand why people just say the h*** with it I need something different. My first marriage was under that premise, only to be destroyed by this crap. But it hasn't stopped me from trying to find my happiness. I wont' let it.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> I agree with what's been said. I would like to add, that people not in a relationship can have physical sex with out any emotional attachment just because the get horney.
> 
> Your wife can't have sex with you because she is being faithful to the other man. The man she loves even though it MAY be a fantasy.


I knew a girl in college that would go for oral sex all day long but never intercourse because she was saving herself for marriage. Your wife is saving herself for the OM.

Search online for “online divorce” and get an inexpensive starter kit for your state. All you want is something to print.

Tell your wife that you have done everything you can think of for a year to save your marriage but you can’t compete with the OM. She was obviously meant to be with him and you want her to be happy. Then hand her the divorce papers and walk out of the room. Then do the 180.




Chaparral said:


> I would like to know how you know its over. Many here have found the affair just went underground even though they were sure it was over. How are you verifying that it is indeed over?


Good question.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I think there may be too much tough love here for Neon right now.


Feel free, however, to yell "well, you started it."


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Neon,

let me understand this...she cheats and you have to do all the heavy lifting...on top of that you please her but she gives you nothing in return.....your first mistake was in accepting her ultimatum...your second mistake was in accepting the blame...please please wake up and smell the coffee....do you honestly think this is the relationship you want for the rest of your life....has she ever once apologized for the affair... for the pain she caused you....i call bull**** on this one Neon...time to put your big boy pants on and place an ultimatum in her lap and BTW please contact the OW and tell her what has been going on.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think you need to find someone else, Your wife has no intentions of fulfilling her duties as a wife and expects to be there for her, provide her with a better marriage and financially provide for her. It return you get absolutely nothing only the memories that your wife cheated on you. I'd end the relationship by cheating on her and then handing her the divorce papers.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

ing said:


> *^^^^What they said ^^^^*




^^^^^^ What He said^^^^^^^



oh and are you sure she is not in contact with OM

it sounds like the affair is still ongoing maybe


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

We're into page 3 and still just the one (original) post from OP!
Hmmm... Neon are you still there ?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

If Neon is still here or not, Ill throw my $O.2 in. 

Wife had a passion affair with another man. Gave her the sexual satisfactions and experiences that she might not had in a long time. Women love sex, just not bad sex. Sometimes after tasting the waters on the outside, it's real hard, no matter how much you may love your wife for her to return to a oho hum sexual marriage. 

She shared those long passioned kisses, long gazes, exciting, feeling that affairs bring that cant be shared with you. She fell in love again, and now, even though she loves you, she's not in love with you. It probably hurts her she feels this way. Fog or not, once another is brought into a marriage, the experience of another persons physical affections brought into the mix, changes everything, opens doors one never expected that would. Affairs are very very messy... 

~ sammy


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Neon said:


> Hi all. I will try to keep this as concise as possible. Last June my wife of 25 years told me that she had been seeing someone else for about 3 months and that she was planning to leave me but was convinced by a friend to tell me about it and to give me a chance.
> 
> She says that she had felt lonely and taken for granted for many years. I admit that I have intimacy issues but I was a good husband and father (three children 17, 20, 23). She said that I was a good man but that that was not enough. She needed passion and needed to feel attractive and desirable.
> 
> ...


She felt lonely and so she had an affair.. now she's not giving you any pleasure, only plain.. you must feel lonely, you should go have an affair.

Your pastor is giving you bad advice. He should have told you to leave her, that she's still abusing you, and until she stops treating you like dirt, you have no reason to be with this woman. She was probably thinking of him while she kissed you, because you obviously haven't made her hate him. You comforted her, to help her get over sleeping with a married man? Seriously... 

Out her boyfriend to his wife so they can be together. Watch how he doesn't come running to your wife. Then let her see how wonderful he is. 

Did you kick her out, make her get tested for STDs, expose to family.. anything? Just comforted her about the loss of her boyfriend?

I figure it has to be a troll.. because c'mon...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Remember, religious leaders are human and can be just as incorrect as us mere mortals.


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm still here. Just taking it all in. I think the reason I found this site and posted my story (life) was to get some sort of outside perspective.

It really hurts when you say that I am plan B and that she is being faithful to the OM. But I need to hear that.

I do not even know who the OM man is. I know that one day she called me in tears and I met her in a park and she cried and cried and cried and told me that she tied up some loose ends. Which I assume meant ended it for good. I have asked her if there is a chance hat he could change his mind and want her back and she said no and that she wouldn't do it.

One day she came to be very remorseful and said that the the wife called her and left a message saying that she had just found out about the affair (about 3 months after I found out). The wife told her that she had found messages (I think FB) and that she was going to send them to me. She did not. But it scared the ****e out of her.

I asked her recently if she had contact with the OM. She said that she did not. She that it was impossible but did not elaborate.

I do not consider myself to be a doormat. I love her and want the marriage to work. I really believe that we have a chance to have a much better marriage than we ever did. The fact that she got her fingers burned after thinking that Prince Charming would come along and they would live happily ever after taught her a lesson. She has apologized both for the affair and for hurting me. I have matured. I have learned how to care for a woman, how to notice a woman, how to be tender, how to be more open. She has learned that relationships require work and pain and communication. They are never easy. That the butterflies disappear but that love can grow deeper.

I spoke to her about it this morning. Told her that the fact that she shows no desire for me hurts every day and that I cannot live that way indefinitely. I told he that the person that cheated has to prove to the other person that they are truly sorry and do the work to reassure them that they want to make it work and are truly sorry for what they did. I told her that I cannot live this way forever, that I cannot just be her friend. That that won't work for me. She went to the bathroom and said that she felt like she was going to throw up. I think she gets it. I actually believe that we will make this work but I am ready to pull the plug and she knows that all she gets is one strike.

I want to mention also that porn was big problem for me and I told her about it last summer and she had no idea. She cried and said that for all these years she thought that it was because she was not pretty enough or desirable enough. I think we both see the potential of our future together but that there are no guarantees.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Neon said:


> I'm still here. Just taking it all in. I think the reason I found this site and posted my story (life) was to get some sort of outside perspective.
> 
> It really hurts when you say that I am plan B and that she is being faithful to the OM. But I need to hear that.
> 
> ...


Quick clarifications: 
How long was her affair?
When did you exactly find out?
When did your "porn addiction" start?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Well for *crying out loud* you should at least know who the OM is and she does not want to tell you, she is protecting the OM


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

About 2-3 months. Spring 2013.
In June 2013.
Probably when I was a teenager.


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

She did not tell me at first because she said she did not want to hurt me any more. We discussed a few weeks ago and she asked if I wanted to know who it was and I said that I did not because how would it change anything. Eventually I want to know.


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

Neon said:


> I'm still here. Just taking it all in. I think the reason I found this site and posted my story (life) was to get some sort of outside perspective.
> 
> It really hurts when you say that I am plan B and that she is being faithful to the OM. But I need to hear that.
> 
> ...



Yes. You are a doormat.

*Yes. You are plan b. You are waiting for her. 
She will **** other men till the end of the world... why not? 
You are waiting for her and she knows it.

You are plan b. This is your life - Do you like it?*


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

DoktorFun said:


> Yes. You are a doormat.
> 
> *Yes. You are plan b. You are waiting for her.
> She will **** other men till the end of the world... why not?
> ...


I'm sorry this is the truth. Now nut up so to speak and make her do some heavy lifting.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for the clarifications.
I'm not there, but here are my reactions as an an observer:


Neon said:


> I do not even know who the OM man is. I know that one day she called me in tears and I met her in a park and she cried and cried and cried and told me that she tied up some loose ends. Which I assume meant ended it for good. I have asked her if there is a chance hat he could change his mind and want her back and she said no and that she wouldn't do it.


 People here will call this break up sex. So, she probably cheated on you again. Obviously, if you met in a park, she didn't tell you about the meeting. You don't keep secrets after an affair, she should be an open book to regain your trust.



> One day she came to be very remorseful and said that the the wife called her and left a message saying that she had just found out about the affair (about 3 months after I found out). The wife told her that she had found messages (I think FB) and that she was going to send them to me. She did not. But it scared the ****e out of her.


Interesting you see this as remorse, I see it as *fear.* *Fear* that you'd see the depth of her lying and betrayal. For the betrayed wife to call the affair partner, those messages must have been terrible. It's a year, but I'd be contacting the AP's wife for those messages *NOW.*



> I asked her recently if she had contact with the OM. She said that she did not. She that it was impossible but did not elaborate.


Over a year ago, you wouldn't have believed she was cheating. Sorry, I'd demand the reason and then give her an ultimatum. Secrets, especially infidelity, are terrible for a marriage. Oh and TAM mantra "never trust a liar." 



> I do not consider myself to be a doormat.


You comforted her after she cheated, after the other man dumped her, after she had a secret rendezvous with a secret ending, you never contacted the betrayed wife, never asked for the messages when you found out they existed and excused almost all of her actions as your fault because:


> I love her and want the marriage to work.


.
People are going to say this is rug sweeping doormat city. I am going to agree.



> I really believe that we have a chance to have a much better marriage than we ever did.


 Not if she is keeping things bottled up inside. She refused to talk during counseling, something that exists and would HELP BOTH OF YOU. You said she let you do 90% of the talking. You know, you are the person who didn't cheat right?



> The fact that she got her fingers burned after thinking that Prince Charming would come along and they would live happily ever after taught her a lesson.


 Really? She's not acting like she burned, she's acting like she is still in love with the other guy. The only lesson she has learned is if she stays "depressed" she gets everything she wants and never has to "put out" with the guy she cheated on. Sorry, that isn't remorse in my view.



> She has apologized both for the affair and for hurting me. I have matured. I have learned how to care for a woman, how to notice a woman, how to be tender, how to be more open. She has learned that relationships require work and pain and communication. They are never easy. That the butterflies disappear but that love can grow deeper.


 14 months of orgasms, cuddling and release for her and nothing for you paints a different picture for me. I think it is great you learned all of this, but to shower it on a remorseless cheater is sad.




> She went to the bathroom and said that she felt like she was going to throw up.


 She wanted to puke because you asked for sexual intercourse. You've been there for a year with no sex, she knows you aren't leaving for religious or other reasons. For all you know, the OM promised to come back, but she must stay loyal by giving you no sex. Yep, sounds ridiculous, but no more ridiuclous than a betrayed spouse giving sexual gratification to a cheater and not getting any in return.



> I want to mention also that porn was big problem for me and I told her about it last summer and she had no idea. She cried and said that for all these years she thought that it was because she was not pretty enough or desirable enough. I think we both see the potential of our future together but that there are no guarantees.


Yes, this COULD be a big problem, but you handed her justification on a silver platter. SHE DIDN'T know, so, it doesn't excuse or justify her cheating.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

My Friend you have swept this under the rug and you have done all the heavy lifting. I agree you are a Christian you are supposed to forgive and you should after she does the heavy lifting to rebuild

Yes you need to know who and when and you need to make sure this guys wife knows about the A. She has the right to know. 

I was married 30 years when my wife cheated. You have to build a new marriage the old one is dead! She killed it when she flopped on her back for another man. 

What is she doing to rebuild the marriage? Have you set real boundaries for her. Do you have access to her phone, email and all passwords.

Have you and her had MC outside of the church?

You have not had sex in a year. I will start quoting scripture to you if you would like Jesus says the one reason to divorce is cheating.

If she is not throwing sex at you like a pron star you are still her plan B he is still her plan A.

I would file D papers it may wake her up


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

No, I do not like it.

How am I Plan B exactly? Yes, she is having a mid-life crisis. Yes she just turned 50 and is not sure what she wants for her future. We have discussed that. The kids grow up and many women feel that they gave their identities to their families and now they are not sure what to do next if their marriage feels dead and empty.

After being with someone for 27 years and knowing that I made mistakes, why is it wrong to do everything I can to see if we can make it right. I believe that that is the right thing to do. too many marriages end in divorce because couple are unwilling to do everything they can to make it work.

I am not a doormat, I am generous and loving and thoughtful. If she leaves then so be it.


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

No, I do not have access to her phone, email and PW's.

I don not believe she met him for breakup sex. Why would she call me immediately afterward?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Neon said:


> *She did not tell me at first because she said she did not want to hurt me any more.* We discussed a few weeks ago and she asked if I wanted to know who it was and I said that I did not because how would it change anything. Eventually I want to know.


This is bad. You need to know. This person may be very close to you, or it may be someone you are seeing on a regular basis and have no clue he has wronged you.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Neon said:


> The fact that she got her fingers burned after thinking that Prince Charming would come along and they would live happily ever after taught her a lesson.


Do NOT for one minute think this is true. I made this mistake on my first false R.

I know you think its over and now is the time to pick up the pieces but let me assure you it is not. There's a 90% chance she will relapse right back into the affair and the way you are handling it is just increasing the odds more. I should know, I did the exact same thing.

You are not the exception to the rule, you are just in a bit of denial and naive about how these things work. Guilt is simply not enough of a consequence for having the A, regardless of what she told you (most which I'm betting is either not true or she is leaving out much more than you know) she is still thinking about the OM and if the opportunity presents itself she will try to start the A again. 

Every minute of every day she is thinking about the OM. Keep that in mind.

In my case my W acted just like yours is now and I was CONVINCED she learned her lesson (I even said she got burned on the A) and we R'd for 6 months then out of the blue the OM broke NC and she was gone. Took me completely off guard.

They don't learn until the realization of them losing their M hits them across the face. Only thing your W is learning right now is how much she can get away with.

TL;DR: Don't be shocked if you get a D-Day#2 in a few months.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> After being with someone for 27 years and knowing that I made mistakes, why is it wrong to do everything I can to see if we can make it right. I believe that that is the right thing to do.


 Ahh the length/age appeal we often see. Mahike addressed that already.


> too many marriages end in divorce because couple are unwilling to do everything they can to make it work.


Key word in your sentence is "couple," that means two people working together not one. Your wife is unwilling by your own words.



> I am not a doormat,


Yes and your wife isn't a cheater she is having a mid life crisis at 50.


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

AOJ, I do appreciate that.

The reason I posted here is to hear about personal experiences like yours. You are correct that I am convinced that she learned her lesson and would not do it again. I don't think she would want to get hurt again by the OM but she told me that she felt passion for him that she never felt before and was willing to leave me for him but he was the one who pulled the plug.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Yes ^^^^ you own words or her own words

this is saying you are plan B

well i have been plan B before until i moved myself into the plan A spot


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

"Yes and your wife isn't a cheater she is having a mid life crisis at 50."

I can tell you have all been here before and that I'm not the first one to think and say these things.

But marriages do survive affairs, right? Marriages can actually get stronger if we face up to our issues?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Neon said:


> "Yes and your wife isn't a cheater she is having a mid life crisis at 50."
> 
> I can tell you have all been here before and that I'm not the first one to think and say these things.
> 
> But marriages do survive affairs, right? Marriages can actually get stronger if we face up to our issues?


yes both parties as a couple have to work at it
it sounds like she is not doing as much as she should


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Neon said:


> "Yes and your wife isn't a cheater she is having a mid life crisis at 50."
> 
> I can tell you have all been here before and that I'm not the first one to think and say these things.
> 
> But marriages do survive affairs, right? Marriages can actually get stronger if we face up to our issues?


Yes but only if you show her you are more than willing to move on.

She has to face consequences for her actions or she has zero reason not to cheat again.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Neon said:


> No, I do not have access to her phone, email and PW's.


 So, you do not know, you trust that she has no contact with OM.



> I don not believe she met him for breakup sex. Why would she call me immediately afterward?


Guilt?
Rub it in your face?
Remorse?
Hate?
Indifference?
Sadness for the loss of the Affair?
Sadness that she has to comeback to you?

Sad thing is, your level of knowledge is no better than mine because we both do not know. 

Why didn't she tell you they were meeting?
Why didn't she tell you they were still in contact?
Why didn't she come home and talk?
Why didn't she take you with her?
Why did she want to meet you in a public place?
Why is the conversation still a secret?

We can play the "why" justification game all day. You will doctor it to fit your fear, I'm not in the situation so my justification/fear fog is not active.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, you do not know, you trust that she has no contact with OM.
> 
> 
> Guilt?
> ...


Find out who the om is today!
Then if he is married tell his wife DON"T tell your wife you are doing this just do it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Neon said:


> I don't think she would want to get hurt again by the OM but she told me that she felt passion for him that she never felt before and was willing to leave me for him but he was the one who pulled the plug.


See and with this type of thinking it WILL happen again. We've seen it here too many times. Many guys, just like you, telling us we are bitter, our lives were ruined, their wife is special, their marriage is different and on and on and on. They nice their wife right out of one affair into the next one or right back to the same guy.

I've seen one poster get mad because he followed the advice of TAM. ONE. I've seen many, like you, do the "I'm being perfect to save the marriage" and come back for D-day 2-3-4 +.

I'll dig up a few threads. Go check out the reconciliation thread and read it all. Look at all the work you will need to do EVEN if your wife helps. No, your marriage can't be saved if she isn't going to help.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Neon your situation is not unique or special.
Read some other threads.
Best of luck.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Neon*
> I spoke to her about it this morning. Told her that the fact that she shows no desire for me hurts every day and that I cannot live that way indefinitely. *I told her that the person that cheated has to prove to the other person that they are truly sorry and do the work to reassure them that they want to make it work and are truly sorry for what they did*. I told her that I cannot live this way forever, that I cannot just be her friend. That that won't work for me. She went to the bathroom and said that she felt like she was going to throw up. I think she gets it. I actually believe that we will make this work but I am ready to pull the plug and she knows that all she gets is one strike.




Your bold words above are a great start. Make a list of what she has to do and then one for you to do. If she really is sorry and wants to make the marriage work then you will see that by *HER ACTIONS!*

At this time I would suggest that you get real busy making your self more self sufficient. If your wife proves by her actions that she wants to make the marriage work then you being more self sufficient will be an added strength to the marriage. If she fails then you will be much stronger, less prone to compromise, less prone to leaning in the direction of a door mat, and able to carry out your exit plan.


*Getting yourself more self sufficient will help you either way; if she proves by actions or she fails, you will be stronger and you need that!*


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Neon said:


> One day she came to be very remorseful and said that the wife called her and left a message saying that she had just found out about the affair (about 3 months after I found out). *The wife told her that she had found messages (I think FB) and that she was going to send them to me. **She did not. But it scared the ****e out of her.*




You already knew that she had a sexual affair, why would that “scare the ****e out of her?”

1.	Texts describing very graphic sex that she never did with you.

2.	Texts describing the extent of her love and “passion” for the OM.

3.	Texts saying unflattering things about you.

4.	All three



Neon said:


> I don't think she would want to get hurt again by the OM but she told me that *she felt passion for him that she never felt before *and *was willing to leave me for him *but he was the one who pulled the plug.


So if the OM left his wife and came crawling back to your wife she would tell him to stay the hell away from her?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Neon said:


> No, I do not have access to her phone, email and PW's.
> 
> I don not believe she met him for breakup sex. Why would she call me immediately afterward?


Start reading other threads here. The first thing you will realize is how they all follow the same script. Especially yours.

Get all her passwords etc. If she refuses, you know the affair/affairs continue. 

Believing anything............ANYTHING...........acheater says isy ridiculus. The way you tell if their liying is when you see their lips moving. The only thing you believe has to be verified independently or actions. ALL her actions indicate the affair is still on.

If the omw really was going to send you a message, your wife intercepted it and no doubt answered it.

They are playing you for a fool. Get two voice activated recorders. One for the car and one for the house. Get the sony model at best buy or walmart. Get heavy duty velcro and stick one under her front seat. Test it out first to understand the functions.

Start checking the mileage on her car, gps would be great.

You don't even know except from your wife the ow even knows. Other man could be a freind of yours.

So many have been here like you, we could write this out for you. Time to grab this bull by the horns and throw it to the ground.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I know you blame yourself for her actions. We, all of us, have flaws so it's easy for a conscientious person - such as you - to self-evaluate and accept your role in a poor marriage. 

However, she was quite dishonest and disrespectful to you during her affair. The affair is totally on her. It's also her responsibility to do much heavy lifting to repair the marriage. 

However - according to you:
*She's not ready for MC
*She's not ready for intercourse (with you)
*She laid blame on her affair on your shoulders

Your story is not unique in the least. Your reaction to her affair is also quite common - and wrong. So very wrong. 

Believe this:
If the OM called her tomorrow and told her he'd left his wife and told her he had an extra airline ticket to Tahiti - you'd never see her again. (regardless of what she tells you about not wanting to be with him now - it's a boldfaced lie - maybe not a conscious one but a lie nonetheless)

Get her an application for work at a seven-eleven and a brochure for your local apartment-finder. Tell her you'll pay for the 12 months' rent until she gets on her feet. Tell her she's not welcome in your home unless it's as a wife. *A real wife*.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"We discussed a few weeks ago and she asked if I wanted to know who it was and I said that I did not because how would it change anything. Eventually I want to know."

Then tell her to write down a timeline of the A with ALL of the information you eventually want to know.

You can have her seal it in an envelope if you're not ready yet and then open it when you fell the need.

But don't tell her 'no, it won't matter' one day only to come back a few months later demanding answers.

It makes you look weak and confused.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Neon said:


> No, I do not have access to her phone, email and PW's.
> 
> I don not believe she met him for breakup sex. Why would she call me immediately afterward?


Part of her doing the work necessary for recovery is her giving you access to the phone, email accounts', etc. Actually the two of you need to give each other this info. It's part of opening up the communication in the marriage.. no secrets allowed for either of you. It had to be total transparency.

You can recover your marriage. The two of you have come pretty far but need a better road map. The books "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs" have that road map. That's why I always suggest them. I've been through this with my H who cheated. We used the advice in the books. It works.


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks WOMars.

It's good to know that at least some of you understand what I am going through.

You are probably right about the ticket to Tahiti. 

When a person is in an affair they seem to only care about the moment and don't think about whom they are hurting. 

A question: I know it takes two to tango but on this forum and in my life I know so many men whose wives have cheated. Do more women cheat than men? It always seem to be the same story, the woman is in an unfulfilling, passionless marriage and they met someone who just pays a little bit of attention to them and they are so vulnerable and needy that they can't help themselves.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Neon then you did get it. You are her plan b if you are to rebuild a marriage you need to be her plan A. Almost everyone on this site is a Betrayed Spouse and we all have made mistakes handling the A and the R or the D

Exposure was what I did not do at first and he kept calling her from time to time and for a time she kept talking with him. My wife did not really start excepting the blame and taking on the work until I did expose the A and filed for D. 

We are doing well in R. New rings new vows and commitments.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Neon said:


> A question: I know it takes two to tango but on this forum and in my life I know so many men whose wives have cheated. Do more women cheat than men? It always seem to be the same story, the woman is in an unfulfilling, passionless marriage and they met someone who just pays a little bit of attention to them and they are so vulnerable and needy that they can't help themselves.


I'm pretty sure statistics say more men cheat than women. But in the last few decades the women appear to be catching up. 

Affairs are usually combinations of a large degree of selfishness and a lot of fantasy. Was the OM there to unclog the stopped up toilets? Was he there to care for your wife when she was sick? Was he there to cuddle your kids, and take care of all the mundane things? 

Your wife has seen you at your best and your worst. She's only seen him at his best. When he was rested and ready for romance. If your wife had only seen you when you where at your best and not concerned about the daily grind - she'd be gaga over you too!

She never had to wash the OM's skid-marked skivvies or face him when he wasn't 100% ready and eager for sex. 

Don't blame yourself for her selfishness - 

A couple of questions for you: Did she ever have to work? What's her occupation? Did you ever have the opportunity to cheat on your wife? Has any other female made overtures to you? - if so, why didn't you act on them? Your wife did.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Neon you need to read married mans sex life primer and then live it.
It changed a lot of us here.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Neon said:


> I told her that I cannot live this way forever, that I cannot just be her friend. That that won't work for me. *She went to the bathroom and said that she felt like she was going to throw up. I* think she gets it. I actually believe that we will make this work but I am ready to pull the plug and she knows that all she gets is one strike.


Seriously??? The thought of being more than friends makes her want to throw up and you think she "gets it"???

Is it just me who thinks her reaction was totally disrespectful, insulting and out of whack?

Neon, no woman "wants to throw up" at the thought of intimacy - unless the man is disgusting to her. Ladies, am I right here?


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## Neon (Apr 24, 2014)

SW, I think what made her feel sick was the fact that I finally said that as the BS (don't know the terminology yet but I mean betrayed spouse) I could not accept a sexless, passionless marriage. I talked about the affair and I think she is just in denial about what she did and that I am not happy or satisfied with the current situation. She thinks that were all nice and cozy and friendly. That we go out for dinner and laugh and have drink and act silly and feel so good together that it's all fixed in her eyes. I have to explain to her that I have to live everyday with the fact that she was going to leave me for someone else and that she felt passion for him that she she does not feel for me. That't too messy for her.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Neon said:


> SW, I think what made her feel sick was the fact that I finally said that as the BS (don't know the terminology yet but I mean betrayed spouse) I could not accept a sexless, passionless marriage. I talked about the affair and I think she is just in denial about what she did and that I am not happy or satisfied with the current situation. She thinks that were all nice and cozy and friendly. That we go out for dinner and laugh and have drink and act silly and feel so good together that it's all fixed in her eyes. I have to explain to her that I have to live everyday with the fact that she was going to leave me for someone else and that she felt passion for him that she she does not feel for me. That't too messy for her.


I'm going to ask you a direct question. Did she have sex with you that night, yes or no? Taking her out to dinner, laughing and getting cozy and friendly is one thing. "Friends" do that. Finally being intimate with you, loving, giving, satisfying is a whole other thing. "Committed Married Couples" do that.

If she did not finally get intimate with you, then I stand by my prior post.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

DoktorFun said:


> Yes. You are a doormat.
> 
> *Yes. You are plan b. You are waiting for her.
> She will **** other men till the end of the world... why not?
> ...


word!

If my ex told me "i went to the bathroom and almost through up" expecting me to accept that as a consequence, I would have laughed my arse off at her

first rule...she is a cheater...she lost your trust, NOTHING she says is the truth, not for a long time....you will require more than her words...her actions tell the story, not her words

you DO want to know who the om is...how can you NOT?? How can you look for contact if you dont know who he is??

im sorry but you are a doormat...looks like a LOT more tough love is in order...sorry!:scratchhead:


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Insist on these actions (not words)
*she move out for a period of time
*get a job to help support herself
*she seeks and attends individual counseling

Set a time frame for her to commit to her marriage. Have a separation agreement in place with a commitment for MC or a divorce action occurs. 

You can always find some other girl/s to do the 'fun type' things your wife is limiting you to during that time. It'll help open your eyes - and hers. At least think about it. 

What appears crystal clear to the rest of us is hazy to you - you need to clear the fog and be willing to accept reality.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Neon said:


> Thanks WOMars.
> 
> It's good to know that at least some of you understand what I am going through.
> 
> ...


the vast majority of us know what your going through, weve been there...I HAVE been there

you are justifying her actions, you are accepting blame for things you did NOT do...SHE boned him, you didnt bone anyone...you are getting beat up pretty bad here and it appears you are not at this point going to believe what you see, you are going to believe what you WANT to believe...you need to read other threads, see how other betrayed husbands handled it...you will see many who did just what you are doing and went through complete hell, and youll see others who took the advise and MADE THEIR WAYWARD SPOUSES SUFFER REAL CONSEQUENCES...its not about revenge, its about showing her you have too much self respect to put up with it...right now she sees you as a doormat, someone with little or no self respect and she will never regain sexual attraction to someone like that

i know it sounds like im telling you to club her over the head, drag her back into the cave, and slap her back in line...because I am...thats exactly what you have to do...


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

survivorwife said:


> Seriously??? The thought of being more than friends makes her want to throw up and you think she "gets it"???
> 
> Is it just me who thinks her reaction was totally disrespectful, insulting and out of whack?
> 
> Neon, no woman "wants to throw up" at the thought of intimacy - unless the man is disgusting to her. Ladies, am I right here?


this thread and the lack of testosterone makes ME want to throw up...and beat my head agaisnt a wall...and drink a 5th of crown royal and go bang some hookers...

im out:scratchhead:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Neon said:


> SW, I think what made her feel sick was the fact that I finally said that as the BS (don't know the terminology yet but I mean betrayed spouse) I could not accept a sexless, passionless marriage. I talked about the affair and I think she is just in denial about what she did and that I am not happy or satisfied with the current situation. She thinks that were all nice and cozy and friendly. That we go out for dinner and laugh and have drink and act silly and feel so good together that it's all fixed in her eyes. I have to explain to her that I have to live everyday with the fact that she was going to leave me for someone else and that she felt passion for him that she she does not feel for me. That't too messy for her.


Neon,
There is an old saw on TAM... you have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. She sounds like she's moping and pining for her OM. She's depressed because she got dumped. Sounds like anyway. 

Here's what I would recommend. Go see a lawyer and file for divorce. You DON'T have to go through with it, you can cancel at any time. But get the paperwork ready.

Make up a list of what YOU want her to do. What do you need from her. You may have been responsible for some of the problems in the marriage but the cheating is ALL. ON. HER. She's the one who needs to do the heavy lifting to fix this. It sounds as if you have been busting your butt for the last year to try to win her back but she's just not responding to you. So make the list of what you want, and please, be selfish.

Sit down and have a cool, calm, rational talk with her. Read the list of what you want from her so she can hear it from you first. Then give it to her. Then show her the divorce paperwork. Tell her she has 3 months or whatever time limit you set. Tell her that if she doesn't show you that she is all in by that time... then the divorce will proceed and you will be done.

Google "The 180" and put that into practice. This is a plan that gets you ready for life without her. It's not specifically to win her back, but it may. It's all about you making yourself better.

Lastly, my very next post will be something you need to print out and have her read. It's stuff she needs to know.

I'm very sorry you're hear.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I've been pointing out the sex component since he started posting. He can't believe, many of us were there, his wife would put him second.So, he's rationalizing and compartmentalizing her actions.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Neon,
Make your wife read this:

The Wayward Spouse Instructions

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! *


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

^^^Print it out or save it to a word document. TAM is your safe haven right now, don't show her this thread.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Yes! Do NOT show her this thread! Hide your internet history so she doesn't find it either.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you see is that you made some changes, those changes seemed to have an affect, and you would not want to mess up your progress.... So you will just be patient so as to not mess up what you have accomplished so far.

What everyone else sees is that there is no way she can be passionate toward you becuase you reacted to her affair by becoiming a better husband. This confuses her. It certainly does not attract her.

Read LuvMyJava..... WW's become attracted to their BS's the moment they realize that they personally screwed up their lives and the BS no longer cares about them.

You have a long way to go between where you are now and a wife that is attracted to you.

You need to be moving toward the exit of your marriage with gusto, not veiled far off deadlines ..... And decide for yourself whether it ever makes sense to reverse that course if she ever shows any reason for you to reverse it.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Neon said:


> I talked about the affair and I think she is just in denial about what she did and that I am not happy or satisfied with the current situation. *She thinks that were all nice and cozy and friendly. That we go out for dinner and laugh and have drink and act silly and feel so good together that it's all fixed in her eyes. *I have to explain to her that I have to live everyday with the fact that she was going to leave me for someone else and that she felt passion for him that she she does not feel for me. That't too messy for her.


:iagree:



Neon said:


> I told her that I cannot live this way forever, that I cannot just be her friend. That that won't work for me. She went to the bathroom and said that she felt like she was going to throw up.


This is very old but there was a standard thing women said years ago when their date was telling them goodnight and he was getting too frisky (kissing, copping a feel, etc.). “It’s been such a wonderful evening. Please don’t spoil it now.” That is what your wife was telling you.

She loves you like a brother and is quite happy living with you if she can't have the OM.

She doesn't want to have sex with her brother but has nowhere else to go.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

And I also apologize for just reading your post, then skipping to the end to post my comment as it just fired me up for some reason.

Hope I don't repeat too many comments and I will read it all after.
___

Your wife does not deserve you.

She should be the one to do a vast majority of the 'heavy lifting' to repair the relationship with you if she is truly sorry and wanting to work it out.

It seems like she is still hung up on the OM and is 'protecting him/her memory' by not having sex with you.

I'm sure it has been mentioned, but you can't nice her out of these feelings.

You can just work on yourself, be the best you can be and see if she is willing to go along for the ride.

Good luck.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

If she loves you only like a friend or a brother, does that mean you can go and find yourself a nice girlfriend? 





Oh, and I agree with all others. Find out the truth, find out who om is, demand passwords and transparency immediately... no 'hang on a minute, now is not convenient'. Do not let her delete! Deal with this situation now. You are allowing her to keep warm memories of her affair, thus priming her for another one ASAP. 

You need to bring consequences to her so she looks back on this time with the same feelings of pain that you have, and wonders at how stupid she was to throw you away like that and how lucky she was to not have completely lost everything. Bring that reality to her, and the sooner you do this the more effective it will be.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> this thread and the lack of testosterone makes ME want to throw up...and beat my head agaisnt a wall...and drink a 5th of crown royal and go bang some hookers...
> 
> im out:scratchhead:


Wait for me


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Neon said:


> A question: I know it takes two to tango but on this forum and in my life I know so many men whose wives have cheated. Do more women cheat than men? It always seem to be the same story, the woman is in an unfulfilling, passionless marriage and they met someone who just pays a little bit of attention to them and they are so vulnerable and needy that they can't help themselves.


All the stats I’ve seen show that men and women cheat at about the same rate, with men cheating 1-2 percentage points more than women.

I’ve read that women and men tend to cheat for different reasons. Men seem to be looking for more spice in their lives, but are generally not ready to leave the marriage. Women tend to cheat after years of feeling that their needs have not been met and perhaps years of trying to get their husband to make the changes that would meet their needs. By the time most women cheat, they are on their way out of the marriage.

Do keep in mind that for every woman who is cheating, there is a guy who is cheating. Sure some affair partners are single. But a huge percentage are not. I don't know the percentage. But most of the affairs I've read about on this forum and others are between two married people.

That there seem to be more men on this forum dealing with infidelity than women has been discussed here many times. I think there are a few reasons for this. One is that since there is a large male population here, more men tend to join to get the support of other men who have been through the same thing. Additionally, woman are more likely to have a strong support system in real life. Men tend to not seek support for their traumatic life problems from those they know in real life.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You know nothing about who or what went on, you know nothing about what may still be going on. YOU have to admit this before you move on.

Do not ask for passwords etc. until you get the VARs and find out for yourself who she is contacting. She may be telling friends what's up even if she isn't in contact with the OM, odds there slim to none.

No sex. What happens when spouses reconcile is hysterical bonding. This means fantastic sex, very often, because both partners are reclaiming their mates. Not doing this is the biggest red flag of all that your wife is still betraying the marriage and is just playing you. Her reasons are obvious. There could always be the first time but we won't hold our breaths.

Get this book MARRIED MANS SEX LIFE PRIMER. It is not a sex manual but a relationship guide. It will explain why your wife sought out another man she found more attractive than you. After marriage men change. You are not the same man you were when you romanced and married her. You became domesticated. Its what she wanted until she got it. Its pure biology.

Here is the blog, Blog | Married Man Sex Life

Here is the book The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

Also, check out this online book, it may or may not apply to you https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

For now do not make waves, do the investigating, you don't want her to be more careful if she is still involved, read the materials. You are going to be enlightened but shocked at what you read.

You have been patient, stay stealthy for a while longer.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

She can probably can not remember why she found you attractive 27 years ago. It doesn't matter to her now. You are a "family member"
In some ways this is true because as a couple you have spent longer together than spent with any other family member. The serotonin bank is all stocked up. For you two break up it is going to hurt like the death of a family member. For the rest of your life. 
You can't put half your life down to experience.

Your actions last year reinforced her feelings of being a naughty girl.

She has an affair. 
You were upset but you let her stay. She cried for the loss of the other guy. She met him for a long heart to heart about the stars not aligning for them, in another life, blah, blah, blah 


You accepted this.

Now a year later she is living with you and she is getting everything she needs from you. Emotional support. Financial support and all is well. For her.

You are wondering where your wife went.

I would suggest that she has no feelings at all for you as a man. She can not even begin to understand how you could devalue her to just a fck. How you can even think of it! Other couples at 25+ years barely have sex. Insert more blah here about long term relationships being different..

The problem you have is two fold.
She is, or recently had great sex with her other guy who only sees her as a sexy woman with no history, no religion, no responsibility. Just dirty, fun, sweaty middle aged sex.

She sees you as akin to her Brother, Father and it would be disgusting of you to demand that with her. 

So what do you do..

The drug in both your systems (serotonin) is the reward you get for staying together. It builds in your system the longer people stay and is the thing that hurts like buggery when it is removed. It is known as the cuddle drug. Your sick of cuddles. She is sick f cuddles. She did something about it..

You have to act now. 
Without being passive aggressive make it very very clear that your love is NOT unconditional. She will be appalled by this. She will almost certainly hate you for it and may run back to the other man. 
Stand firm. 
Your love is not one of a Brother, a Father or a kindly Uncle. 
Stop being one. Look at YOUR actions and how you reinforce that view and stop doing it. 

Start seeing her as a woman who only last year fcked a guys brains out. 

This entitlement ****s me to tears. 

NO. You are not entitled to all of me while you give me the scraps. 

rant over..


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

ing said:


> She can probably can not remember why she found you attractive 27 years ago. It doesn't matter to her now. You are a "family member"
> In some ways this is true because as a couple you have spent longer together than spent with any other family member. The serotonin bank is all stocked up to break up it is going to hurt like the death of a family member for the rest of your life.
> You can't put half your life down to experience.
> Your actions last year reinforced her feelings of being a naughty girl.
> ...


This ^^^^
You are her father scolding her for seeing the hot bad boy from down the street when you told her not to. Being her dad, of course you took her back into your home when the bad boy turned out to be bad.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Neon


What I see in your thinking and in some of the other BS’s thinking is very obvious to me.

The WS cheats and the BS is so emotionally distraught that he/she looks at how he/she can fix things for the WS , then *they start compromising and do not concentrate on the right actions*.

Some BSs spend a lot of time and energy on trying to please the WS and sit back and patently compromise their needs to give the WS that benefit in hopes that the WS will appreciate the BS efforts. *In your case you have waited for over a year for sex and for her to agree to go to MC. That is too much compromising and is not focused on the right actions*.

The right actions are for you to take actions with the person that you have full control over and that is YOU. *WalkonMars and Sandc has laid out some things and I hope you take their advice seriously.*

In addition, I would like to add that you TOTALLY focus on building yourself up in any way that you can. In other words you use all your resources to help yourself and focus on YOU because you have been weakened. What your wife has forced upon you is a situation that has weakened you so much that until you get a lot more self sufficient you will be dependant on her and others for your well being. No one is going to be able to help you enough without you diligently working on yourself. I know you desperately want your wife to change so that you get a lot better but she is weak and cannot help you much. In fact she has proven that she is not 100% dedicated to you for over a year by her action with sex with you and the MC issue.

When a WS has weakened themselves, such as your wife has, then they will only desire a man that is strong and one they respect. Because you want your wife to desire you then you need to get stronger and demand respect. *The main reason that I tell you this is that you do that for YOU. Then no matter what your wife decides to do you will be able to make it and build a new life with her or without her.*


DO NOT compromise you spending all your recourses on YOU so that you can fix her. She will have a list of what she can do if she really wants you back and her responsibility is to fix herself. I think this is the best way to give R a chance and it is also the best way if R fails. What you have right now is two people, you and your wife, looking to each other for strength. Neither of you are strong enough right now and need to build yourself up.

*The time you spend on trying to fix your wife is time taken away from you getting better.*


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## po'drunk (Sep 27, 2013)

Neon, brother, how long is your neck? I ask because I have not seen someone try to stand so tall with their head buried so deep in the sand. Stop trying to be seen as honorable and just. You need to be angry and righteously so. Stop pining for what was, it was never what you thought is was anyway. Envision a stronger, happier Neon without a wife and start projecting that person. Your posts wreak of co-dependence and you need to remedy this. It's never too late.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Neon,

Have you actually bothered to read MMSLP yet. Regardless if you R or D it is necessary for you to read. It will do you a world of good. It will make you a chick magnet in a good way. Your W will find you an irresistible attraction. You might also gain valuable insights into your W behavior.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Ask Road Scholar about his breakthrough.

I don't think you should give your wife lists. Lists are bureaucracy. Lists are boring. You need to be mysterious. If you file for divorce, you should not need to spell out your needs. She knows you want her to be sexually attracted. Desire will not spring from discussion.

File for divorce. Start dating. Stop munching her rug whatever you are doing to alleviate her lust.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let's be blunt. If we were all young and single, your wife would be called a tease. She has all the fun and you get sent home with repeated cases of "blue balls." That is no way to live in a regular marriage, let alone one with infidelity and only one person attempting to reconcile.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

OP, you are a sniveling monkey man balling for his mommy. Do you sound like the type of man your wife, or any woman would desire!?!

Sprout some balls and throw her cheating ass out. 

By the way, your idiot pastor gave you NON-Biblical advise (Satan comes as an angel of light, to deceive...).

Stop being a mousy fool!

Get a girlfriend and bring her home into your bedroom so that your wife can watch you be THE MAN!


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Is this a joke. If anyone comes here and reads what people go through, this loss of backbone 101. Man it up brother. She lays in bed naked and you get no play, that's a flat out tease. She's playing games man. See this for what it is. 180 the heck out her. Go do your own thing. Your kids are grown, they don't need you like they used to. Hit that gym, hard. Hit the tanning booth, not too much, brighten your smile hang out with your buds and cut loose, marginally speaking. Make her chase you. Your lack of intimacy and whatever she's complaining about is husband wife stuff. That can be changed or whatever. Infidelity that's her cross to wear. How dare people tell you to console her, what about the guy that got cheated on, dumped on and left in the corner to cry. Get busy living for yourself, if you d, then you d. You are still better person, no matter what she says. Good luck brother, now go live.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Neon said:


> I do not even know who the OM man is. I know that one day she called me in tears and I met her in a park and she cried and cried and cried and told me that she tied up some loose ends. Which I assume meant ended it for good. I have asked her if there is a chance hat he could change his mind and want her back and she said no and that she wouldn't do it.
> 
> One day she came to be very remorseful and said that the the wife called her and left a message saying that she had just found out about the affair (about 3 months after I found out). The wife told her that she had found messages (I think FB) and that she was going to send them to me. She did not. But it scared the ****e out of her.
> 
> ...


You need to set out a time line and an agenda....

Agenda...Item 1 Name of OM...Timeline 48 hours..not met.divorce
Agenda...Item 2 NC letter .......Timeline 72 hours..not met..divorce
Agenda...Item 3 sex with you.. timeline 96 hours..not met..divorce
Agenda...Item 4 transparent..timeline immediate..not met..divorce

contact with OM divorce
withholding sex divorce
secret accounts, passwords...divorce

Then get a lawyer, file for divorce, and show her the signature ready papers...

Tell her these are your demands, and tell her she knows where the door is....


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Zombie thread.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, it was Halloween after all.


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