# The EXCUSES You've Heard...



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I'm interested in hearing ALL of the craziest excuses given for cheating by the WW/WH to their BS's.

For example:

*"15 years ago, you didn't introduce me to your high school friends."*


What were you told?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Perhaps uniquely, I didn't get any excuses. I was just told what was going to happen. 

Though I did get an apology afterwards. A very heartfelt and contrite one, I seem to recall. 

A couple of years before the affair I'd had what they thought was a heart attack, but it turned out not to be a heart attack, as such.

But when she told me she was going to have the affair, I actually thought: S***! I wish it had been a real heart attack and a fatal one, so I wouldn't have had to have gone through this pain."

This is the first time I have ever expressed those feelings. But that's how low it made me feel. The CS think they know how bad they make us feel, but they do not know the extent of the pain they put us through. 

Whew. Feel a little better now that's out, even though it's 15 years later.

Sorry, this rambled a bit. For some reason that I don't understand, this question acted as a trigger for me.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

My ex-wife, went to our mutual friend's home and told her that I was involved with another woman (This was last year, a year and a half AFTER our divorce became finalized). She said to her:

*"How could mori do this to me?"* :scratchhead::wtf:


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

morituri said:


> My ex-wife, went to our mutual friend's home and told her that I was involved with another woman (This was last year, a year and a half AFTER our divorce became finalized). She said to her:
> 
> *"How could mori do this to me?"* :scratchhead::wtf:


Wow!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

morituri said:


> My ex-wife, went to our mutual friend's home and told her that I was involved with another woman (This was last year, a year and a half AFTER our divorce became finalized). She said to her:
> 
> *"How could mori do this to me?"* :scratchhead::wtf:


You know, that's probably one of the saddest things I have ever read. It has actually sent a shiver down my spine.

To have done what she did, for so long, yet for it not to register and to forget the pain and distress she caused you is truly jaw dropping.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

My H was pretty good in the aftermath in the sense that he didn't blame for the A. Before D-day he had already realized that prior to the A, he justified it by putting all the blame for our M problems on me but that was wrong. 

That said, he did say a couple things that were stupid.

"A lot of people have affairs." :wtf:

I can't remember the context anymore but needless to say I was livid. I think I responded with, "Oh really, I guess it's okay for me to have one now too because a LOT of people have affairs." 

He also said...

"I wasn't hurting OWH because he knew about me." :scratchhead:

I asked him if had ever met OWH and of course he said NO so then I asked why he would believe his cheating, lying married OW and he actually said...

"I'm only going by what I was told." 

Yeah, cheaters are known for their honesty, Honey. 

Seriously?! I think you have to be slightly socially inept and emotionally stunted to even engage in an affair.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zanna, should this ever come up in conversation again, you can tell your husband that I knew about my wife's affair. And did it hurt? To the extent that I actually wished I had died before the affair happened.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Zanna, should this ever come up in conversation again, you can tell your husband that I knew about my wife's affair. And did it hurt? To the extent that I actually wished I had died before the affair happened.


MattMatt, I'm so sorry. That's truly awful.

Thankfully, my H eventually did admit that if OWH did know and was hurt, that he felt terrible about that. I told my H I could not in good conscience reconcile with him if he was the type of man that could not care about another human being's pain simply because he did not "know" him.


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## l4u (Jun 6, 2012)

"I did it for spite because you didn't talk to me for 2 nights straight!" 

Both times she cheated on me out of spite over something stupid.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

l4u said:


> "I did it for spite because you didn't talk to me for 2 nights straight!"
> 
> Both times she cheated on me out of spite over something stupid.


Duh.... uhhh? 

There should be a special award for dumbness of that level.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She said I didn't pay her enough attention or talk to her enough. OM was "easy" to talk to and paid attention to what she said.

Never mind that I worked my azz off to support her (SAHM) and our two kids. Never mind that she left for the gym 3 nights a week around 6-7 pm and stayed gone until 10-11 pm. Gym is where she met Mr. Wonderful.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> You know, that's probably one of the saddest things I have ever read. It has actually sent a shiver down my spine.
> 
> To have done what she did, for so long, yet for it not to register and to forget the pain and distress she caused you is truly jaw dropping.


You're right but a few months after our chance encounter on the street, and her going to our mutual friend, she had a major mental/emotional meltdown and was briefly institutionalized by her parents. That was a gut wrenching time for me as well for despite no longer being married to her, I did not wish her anything bad to happen to her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

morituri said:


> You're right but a few months after our chance encounter on the street, and her going to our mutual friend, she had a major mental/emotional meltdown and was briefly institutionalized by her parents. That was a gut wrenching time for me as well for despite no longer being married to her, I did not wish her anything bad to happen to her.


You can love someone, but just know that you -for your own sanity and health- can never allow them to be a part of your life any more.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Zanna, should this ever come up in conversation again, you can tell your husband that I knew about my wife's affair. And did it hurt? To the extent that I actually wished I had died before the affair happened.


I dont actually wish I would but on some level a part of me did. I dont know if that will ever come back. Though we are R'ing and we have alot of good days, always in the pit of my soul I feel sadness. I hope that will ease as time goes by.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Barely got any discussion with XW about her affair (I left kind of abruptly), but she did eventually say something like "Things weren't sparking with us for a while, I was confused. I guess I figured I'd try it with OM and hopefully it would make me come running back to you."

Yep. Airtight logic, no?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

my WS is still in denial sayin theres nothing going on livin the lie;
but here are some of the gems during and after i confronted her 4 times:

after the 1st day and he sent pictures of x rated longerie "eveybody does that. i told him i didnt like it and he apologized"

"hes just a friend of my brother, i was trying to be nice"

after i said OM deserves an @ss kickin and threatened to go kick his @ss "no, hes my friend, your not being very attrative at all, hes being real nice!' ill bet he is!!!!

"i was going to stop talking to him, but after you snooping im going to keep talking to him!"

after i said "let me talk to him!" her "NO! hes my friend and hes being real nice. theres nothing going on. you couldnt be more wrong!"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I dont actually wish I would but on some level a part of me did. I dont know if that will ever come back. Though we are R'ing and we have alot of good days, always in the pit of my soul I feel sadness. I hope that will ease as time goes by.


It does! It gets much better! But it takes time.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She didn't have any excuses, she knew she F'd up big time. I think because of her extremely spoilt nature and the fact she could easily have any man she wants, she didn't vocally express remorse. She's so used to men slobbering all over her stilettos I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling! . 

But I could see it in her eyes that she was sorry, she had this constant longing look in her. She would bite her nails and just stare at me. A few years later she did profusely apologize and I could tell she did a lot of growing up in those years. Ah well.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

"you made me get a part time job" (8hrs a week for 7 weeks) 15 years ago "

"You made me get a part time job when our daughter was born 8 years go"

"I never had a wild in my 20's shagging around" - because I met and fell in love with you"

There's some more gems but they escape me right now.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

My H still feels that the only thing he did wrong was deceive me by hiding them!!

He told counselor that talking to OW(omen) was the same as talking to "one of the guys"! :scratchhead:

Yet, had told me about getting an "ego boost" with them and that it felt good that they were complimenting him as a man since he wasn't getting it from home... wonder if his "guy" friends give him an ego boost too...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Headspin said:


> "you made me get a part time job" (8hrs a week for 7 weeks) 15 years ago "
> 
> "You made me get a part time job when our daughter was born 8 years go"
> 
> ...


She wasn't one of them Janners was she, now?  

(FIL, ex Royal Marine & a Janner himself!)
:rofl:


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Complexity said:


> She didn't have any excuses, she knew she F'd up big time. I think because of her extremely spoilt nature and the fact she could easily have any man she wants, she didn't vocally express remorse. She's so used to men slobbering all over her stilettos I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling! .
> 
> But I could see it in her eyes that she was sorry, she had this constant longing look in her. She would bite her nails and just stare at me. A few years later she did profusely apologize and I could tell she did a lot of growing up in those years. Ah well.


Did you divorce her?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

"But I was going to come back."


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## LittleMiss13 (Mar 7, 2012)

Words out my husband's mouth

1. She makes me feel good.
2. You and the kids take advantage of me.
3. Our son quit playing college basketball.
4. I'm tired of working all the time.
5. When is the last time we had sex? 
6. Well if our son didn't set me up with a facebook account this never would have happened.

It was all our fault that he decided to have an affair. At first I took some of the blame but then I learned not to take any ownership of what he did. He owned it -- not me!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

morituri said:


> My ex-wife, went to our mutual friend's home and told her that I was involved with another woman (This was last year, a year and a half AFTER our divorce became finalized). She said to her:
> 
> *"How could mori do this to me?"* :scratchhead::wtf:


You gotta be effen kidding me. 

The insanity of some waywards knows no bounds....


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## l4u (Jun 6, 2012)

Good dog, man she made it clear you're not her type. 
Are you still with her? 
If yes, why?


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Wow. I don't even know where to begin. My ex is the type who will move heaven and earth to prevent her from ever appearing bad or responsible for anything, even now almost 5 years post-D, so she's said some whoppers.

The thing I've heard her say the most frequently is "It's Not Fair!/That wasn't part of our deal!"

Just sticking to financial related things out of her mouth that she meant or insisted she did, here a few highlights:

1. "Ten thousand dollars is NOTHING!" (When I wouldn't let her run out and buy a piece of furniture costing $10k).

2. "I could so EASILY find a guy a who makes TWICE as much you. Several in fact" (really? 38, 275lbs, and all these guys who make > $330K year are throwing themselves at you?)

3. "There are hundred-thousand dollar a year jobs out there ON EVERY CORNER around here" (where? In our small town? ...when I had lost my job, and was looking at taking one 200 miles away)

4. And just this year, after the Alimony ended: "I DESERVE Seven Thousand dollars a month from you for the rest of my life!" (Sure you do, you cheating, lying b****h, sure you do...)

Of course, she was a SAHW/M the whole time. She never even tried to get a job while the Alimony was on, and now tells my kids how awful I am because she has to get a job (which she hasn't done yet)

[edit - I guess they are not excuses per se, but whoppers that she claimed to believe were real]


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

"You withdraw in that period and became distant"
"He flirted we me and made me feel attractive"
"We were young when me met, so I didn't get to try other men before I settled with you"
"I didn't think You would find out...."

Well, all of the above may still apply to both of us, so maybe we should just f*** around....


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Really have nothing to add. Since I was too stupid to realize what was going on when she just wasn't up to close physical contact with me, she never really offered any excuses once she told me our "marriage" was over. I guess my only suggestion to others is that if you think something isn't right when you are out there working to provide for your "family", you probably need to find out what it is.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I thought you were cheating on me.
You were doing stuff that was on the lists of cheating spouses (paying attention to my looks, working out of town, being on the computer, going to the gym...)
He never talked to me about any of his concerns. 
I had been doing all these things when he started dating me...and he lied to me about his own activities and his OW the entire relationship! She was there from day one. But married to someone else.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My ex h said I set him up to cheat and have several affairs. WTH? I didn't know these women until I ran into them in our local town. They were popping out of the woodwork.

How do you set someone up to cheat anyway? 

Was he thinking I was behind him with a gun to his back and he was under duress while with these women??? LOL

Anyway, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm so happy now and I'm with a man I trust and love.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"I could so EASILY find a guy a who makes TWICE as much you. Several in fact" (really? 38, 275lbs, and all these guys who make > $330K year are throwing themselves at you?)

yours too?

yeh, mine is 49, 5'-4" 225 lbs. shes actually very pretty even that big and sexy believe it or not. but REALLY?
how long do you think the guy will last being obese and having
severe degenerative spine desease? she cant hardly go out let alone be a real gf to this guy

im still wondering what OM reaction was when he found out how GD big she is. the pictures she sent really make her look normal size. i wouldve like to be a fly on the wall.

and yet as far as i know theyre still talkin.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

I got this excuse after he left.... I didn't know he cheated at that point yet.
"You were never comfortable with me being a musician" (I supported us for nearly 8 years, he never worked full time)
"You asked me to get a 'real' job after our son was born. You are trying to make me into somebody I'm not" (yup, so I went back to work full time after our bub was born.... he didn't. Oh and the OW is his guitar student so, yes, now he's in heaven).


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

"I cheated on you to deliberately hurt you. I can only get your attention to listen to me and pay attention when I hurt you really bad" (ok, then why keep it hidden for 5 months before I found out?)

Same line was used when I discovered his inappropriate lunch dates with a co-worker 2 weeks ago...NOT GOING DOWN THAT ROAD AGAIN!! Filing for D.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> She didn't have any excuses, she knew she F'd up big time. I think because of her extremely spoilt nature and the fact she could easily have any man she wants, she didn't vocally express remorse. She's so used to men slobbering all over her stilettos I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling! .
> 
> But I could see it in her eyes that she was sorry, she had this constant longing look in her. She would bite her nails and just stare at me. A few years later she did profusely apologize and I could tell she did a lot of growing up in those years. Ah well.


The other men were likely slobbering over her because she seemed willing and dressed provocatively. Who needs that. 

My cheater husband's OW is the same way. She is packaged well but not gorgeous, yet men slobber over her. 

Another woman can see why very easily, She flirts with everyone, even counter men and waiters whom she would likely never date, she talks in a phony but sexy voice and she always talking about how hot she gets looking at some guy. 

She is one huge walking advertisement that says I am an easy lay. Men can't seem to resist that. That may not see her as wife material, but they definitely respond to her easiness and come on cues.

I worked in the ad industry in NY and LA and I met women who were truly drop dead gorgeous. Some acted that way, but others did not. The men did not slobber over the more sedate but drop dead gorgeous women for obvious reasons, IMO.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> "I could so EASILY find a guy a who makes TWICE as much you. Several in fact" (really? 38, 275lbs, and all these guys who make > $330K year are throwing themselves at you?)
> 
> yours too?
> 
> ...


My head .. it be a shakin'.... 

What I suspect is that she thinks the way you honored the marriage and treated her is "her due" and "normal" and that any guy would be grateful just for the chance to provide for and worship her, no matter how old, wrinkly and infertile she gets.

It's a form of "fog" they get in and if that's all they've known in their life - i.e. they've never really had to live on their own, just gone from parents/school to BFs to Married, then I think it's very possible for them to develop a very warped view of reality when it comes to roles and money. I certainly made things worse for myself by trying to be a good provider and take care of my ex- wife while married. I would shield her from the fiscal struggles we had when she complained it was "too much stress" for her to deal with. 

It was a weird thing about the way my ex- treated me regarding money really.

When I got married, I wasn't 'successful' .. yet - I was just starting out really - career change in the 3rd year of marriage. And things were pretty ok then. About 5-6-7-8 years into the marriage, things *really* took off both money and career status wise (speaking at international conferences, "hey, did you see that article in 'The Economist' talking about you?", etc) and then we had the better part of a $million dropped on us via a buyout. 

It wasn't until I got more successful that she started tearing me down all the time about money. The more I made, the worse it got. I can see now that what happened was that she thought my "sex rank" had moved way beyond her (which honestly, it did) and thought other women would show interest in me now that I had success, and I would leave her, etc. She would accuse me of looking at women, having affairs, etc all the time, keeping me always on the defensive, and bash the back of my skull in (yes, she would hit me) if a waitress seem flirty with me. Her insecurities corresponded with her sudden desire to have babies, perhaps so I would be better "locked in".

On the flip side, she was always demanding "more more more" in terms of providing - not just necessities, but luxuries ($70k SUV, etc). She reveled in having more expensive things than her friends and showing off how superior she was to them. When I tried to reign in her spending down the windfall, she actually would get violent with me. And she constantly complained that I wasn't "any fun" because I wouldn't spend all my time doing the things she wanted, because I had to work to pay for all the stuff (and take refuge from her). She used that justify multiple affairs (some of which I didn't learn about until much later). 

I was a beaten dog that she kept around to pay for everything. When the D went down, I don't think she realized that the majority of her pleas to me as to why I should stay married to her were her saying "I need you to pay for things. You will be happy with keeping things the way they were because I am" (open marriage for me, you pay for all). She was that deep in her fog, thinking it was ok to use me like a parasite and that I would go along with it.

Well, karma is making its way back around finally. She announce she was getting remarried the day after her court bid for more CS and extending alimony failed. Income wise, he's just average, and she is trying to find a teaching job in a state that has been shedding teachers left and right due to budget cuts. She's taking it out on my kids though.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Anubis,

With her entitlement mentality, it won't be long before she starts cheating on her new husband. Too bad you can't give him a heads up on what kind of woman he is going to get hitched to.

Your story (like mine) also illustrates the huge red flag of cheaters paranoid insecurity about being cheated on by their spouses.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> It does! It gets much better! But it takes time.


How much time???? I've only had 4.5 months but it seems like an eternity. i can be going along fine then-BAM! Tears will literally just start rolling down my face out of nowhere. I wasnt even thinking about IT really but the tears just pour and suddenly it moves from the back of my mind to the forefront in an instant. It can still bring me to my knees.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> How much time???? I've only had 4.5 months but it seems like an eternity. i can be going along fine then-BAM! Tears will literally just start rolling down my face out of nowhere. I wasnt even thinking about IT really but the tears just pour and suddenly it moves from the back of my mind to the forefront in an instant. It can still bring me to my knees.


I find that it is so hard to ever truly push it out of your mind..I find I think about it every day multiple times per day. I am so tired of thinking about it but it is always there.

For myself I don't need triggers either..I can be watching a show/reading a book totally unrelated to the situation then all of a sudden an email will pop into my brain..so then I start thinking and dwelling about some words that were written, what she said, what he said, etc.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Never got any excuses from my ex-wife, she never admitted the affair. 

This one used the excuse "We grew apart". WTF? Really? We were together all the time (now I realize why, since her main love language is quality time), and we would talk. But whenever I asked her what the problem was, why was she so stressed all the time, irritable all the time, the answer I would always get is "stress from the job". Yet during the affair, she gave me the "we need space" speech because we were together all the time, but after D-Day it was "we grew apart"? :scratchhead:


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

His ONS excuses first:

"She was there and I was buzzed from drinking and her skin looked so soft and creamy." 

"She was there and asked and I was mad at you." 

"we just had an argument over the phone and she was right there."
" If it helps it did not feel that great. She gives a toothy bj." 

His EA excuses:
"It just kind of happened. I was not thinking when I got the pictures of her and sent one back." 
"It was hard to not get into it. She was always throwing sexual things in my face every day."

Best was this one....."It was kind of fun and it is not cheating because we did not have actual intercourse. Just text and pic messages and a little flirting at work. It is not cheating."

He now knows that an EA is cheating and that his ONS was all his fault not mine or the disagreement over the phone. It amazes me the things WS will say to them selves and anyone else to justify it or excuse it away.


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

Me: why are you going and meeting these men that you dont even know after a 1 hour chat, they know what my daughter looks like, her name and your address????????

Wife: You pushed me to do that, it's your fault !!!!

Me: Right so i pushed you to go on random chats and talk dirty to every men out there and meet them and do your dirty deeds in the car (my car) that i'm still paying for and then brag about it on your special facebook group? OUTSTANDING !


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## cherokee96red (Apr 23, 2011)

Read through all the replies and didn't see this one.

"Felt disconnected from you."
WTF? :scratchhead:

Did it not occur to you to try "reconnecting" and sharing that you felt like that?

Me: dealing through brain tumor, menopause, empty nest, and MLC. *I* had *ALL* the *excuses* but didn't need to use them, didn't cheat.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

keko said:


> Did you divorce her?


We were engaged, parted ways in the end.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

He was not happy and someone gave him attention.


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

lovemylife26 said:


> He was not happy and someone gave him attention.


Oh i heard this one too. You didnt pay attention to me and he did..

Or better:

He is also unhappy in his marriage and his wife is a B.

Me:I asked her how do you know his wife is this way? 

Wife: He told me

Me: so you believe the guy that's cheating on his wife and you take his word for the truth while im paying for everything for you and you cheat on me???

Wife: I guess so (not joking)


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

"I thought you _wanted_ us to be good friends." 
-Apparently, our acceptance of the invitation to her Halloween party was my coded message letting my husband know I wanted him to have an affair with her. 

"You wouldn't ever just sweep the porch off so I could sit out there [with her] and have a drink when I got home in the afternoons!" 
-Yeeeaaah. WTF?!?!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

l4u said:


> Good dog, man she made it clear you're not her type.
> Are you still with her?
> If yes, why?


Because she lied about that!

And also, I'll bet one of the other husband kicked the OM's arse so hard he now has to take haemorrhoid cream by mouth! 
:rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> How much time???? I've only had 4.5 months but it seems like an eternity. i can be going along fine then-BAM! Tears will literally just start rolling down my face out of nowhere. I wasnt even thinking about IT really but the tears just pour and suddenly it moves from the back of my mind to the forefront in an instant. It can still bring me to my knees.


Couple of years, for me.

And even now, 15 years later, sometimes I remember how desolate I felt then. Her affair didn't last long, but the impact on me was deep.

None of my relationships have been with 'normal' women. They all appeared normal, but weren't. Maybe it's me?

After I had started going out with my third girl friend I remember been in the pub with a friend (boyfriend of the mutual female friend who got me and her friend together) when he said something to the effect of: "Oh! Your girlfriend's husband has just walked in the pub!"

He saw the look on my face and he said: "Oh. Sorry. Didn't you know she was still married?"

I said: "No!" He then said: "Sorry. But they are separated!"

Husband then throws himself down in the corner and starts crying about their baby that had died at a month old about a year or so earlier and I suddenly felt very ill.

S**t. I just recalled something from my first date with her. She had asked me if I wanted to see some photographs of her baby. I of course agreed. However, they were obviously taken after the poor little mite had died after some fairly vigorous resuscitation attempts. I wanted to babble, but made some soothing remark about how peaceful she looked, which seemed to be the right thing to say. 

Sorry. I rambled off topic, there...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> Now that I've read this thread, I keep thinking of more of her excuses. Bad thing I guess. But another one was, "Look, he's engaged and he doesn't know if he loves her. He needs to find out and I think this was a way for him to do that."
> 
> So the OM was engaged and didn't know if he loved his fiance, so the best thing for my WW to do would naturally be to let him work on getting her into bed. Makes sense to me.


Yes, it makes sense in a sort of: "Help! Someone just pulled my spouse's brains out via their nostrils!" kind of a way...


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

H said that we've been having issues for 4 or 5 years,,,,
(Funny, he never mentioned that to me.. I didn't see that coming)

Now he's telling the counselor that he talked with the other women the same as he would "one of the guys"? Maybe he is secretly gay???

 :rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> H said that we've been having issues for 4 or 5 years,,,,
> (Funny, he never mentioned that to me.. I didn't see that coming)
> 
> Now he's telling the counselor that he talked with the other women the same as he would "one of the guys"? Maybe he is secretly gay???
> ...


Ah. Now, let's suppose he did exactly that, problem is that could cause him to drop his guard, which led to dropping of trousers and then, ultimately, dropping of standards...


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

lovemylife26 said:


> He was not happy and someone gave him attention.


I got the same from my WW.

Yet 17 years of my sole attention wasn't enough for her...


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Gotta add these now...

*"I was in a dark place"*

Common retort:

No, you let him into _*YOUR*_ dark place, 10 times!?!

or 

*"I didn't know who I was"*

Common retort:

I do... you were the *wh0re* who was f*cking another man, while married to me!


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## hunter411 (Jun 4, 2012)

I have yet to get an answer. I wish she would just make something up. I dont do well with unknowns.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

hunter411 said:


> I have yet to get an answer. I wish she would just make something up. I dont do well with unknowns.


She might not know herself.


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## hunter411 (Jun 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She might not know herself.


I think you are right. I dont know what I will do once Ive moved on if she runs back.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Did we all marry really dumb people? 
I think one of the hardest things about reconciling would be the embarassmant of being married to someone so dumb.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> She didn't have any excuses, she knew she F'd up big time. I think because of her extremely spoilt nature and the fact she could easily have any man she wants, she didn't vocally express remorse. She's so used to men slobbering all over her stilettos I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling! .
> 
> But I could see it in her eyes that she was sorry, she had this constant longing look in her. She would bite her nails and just stare at me. A few years later she did profusely apologize and I could tell she did a lot of growing up in those years. Ah well.


It is difficult to trust someone after an emotional/physical affair.

It doesn't help that most cheaters, after discovery, say and do the dumbest stupidest most hurtful things.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> It is difficult to trust someone after an emotional/physical affair.
> 
> It doesn't help that most cheaters, after discovery, say and do the dumbest stupidest most hurtful things.


I agree with you. I'm somewhat envious of some the members on here who's cheating spouses had mental breakdowns or sectioned due to a suicide risk for all the pain they've caused. If I would've gotten just an ounce of that kind of remorse it would've been much different. 

I think it also shows a lack of respect, like they "expected" us to get over it and for us to put aside our feelings and dignity just so that we'd have the "privilege" of having them in our lives.


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## Xaviersheart (Jun 12, 2012)

My husband told me he wasn't attracted to pregnant women and that's why he did it. Oh and the fact that I raise my voice on occasion. I have dealt with his horribly trashy family bad mouthing me and him going out on the weekends until 10am (even on the day I was due to give birth to our first son) and this is what I get.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Did we all marry really dumb people?
> I think one of the hardest things about reconciling would be the embarassmant of being married to someone so dumb.


In my case I married a woman who is an Aspie. Not an easy road. But, if I knew then what I know now, the problems and difficulties, the heartbreaks, the stresses, would I do it again?

_Yes. In a heartbeat._


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Xaviersheart said:


> My husband told me he wasn't attracted to pregnant women and that's why he did it. Oh and the fact that I raise my voice on occasion. I have dealt with his horribly trashy family bad mouthing me and him going out on the weekends until 10am (even on the day I was due to give birth to our first son) and this is what I get.


That's rotten. 

But from what you say, that's only one of a number of problems, there...


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Anubis said:


> My head .. it be a shakin'....
> 
> What I suspect is that she thinks the way you honored the marriage and treated her is "her due" and "normal" and that any guy would be grateful just for the chance to provide for and worship her, no matter how old, wrinkly and infertile she gets.
> 
> ...


This gave me a laugh. It sounds exactly like the stuff the OW told my STBEH. 

The OW's husband was suddenly making less and the OW, who never held a job, and was a pampered princess with her parents, was angrier than a wet cat. 

When she was angry at her hardworking, unsuspecting husband, she would have an affair because as she claimed, she felt neglected and lonely. WTF 

This is why STBEH is not still with her. He knows she is a whiner and a user.



> I was a beaten dog that she kept around to pay for everything. When the D went down, I don't think she realized that the majority of her pleas to me as to why I should stay married to her were her saying "I need you to pay for things. You will be happy with keeping things the way they were because I am" (open marriage for me, you pay for all). She was that deep in her fog, thinking it was ok to use me like a parasite and that I would go along with it.


The STBEH OW's husband refuses to believe she had affairs. He won't even look at my proof or call me back. He really pampered his wife, and the poor guy seems to love her unconditionally. 

Still, it sounds to me as if she is just using the guy as a paycheck in a similar way, and in emails I read she said she always ensured her husband was not cheating, and was even jealous of STBEH possibly seeing other woman while seeing her. 



> Well, karma is making its way back around finally. She announce she was getting remarried the day after her court bid for more CS and extending alimony failed. Income wise, he's just average, and she is trying to find a teaching job in a state that has been shedding teachers left and right due to budget cuts. She's taking it out on my kids though.


I have fantasized that this will happen to the OW. It seems likely because she isn't really anything special. She's not a nice person either, obviously, even though STBEH insisted she was at first. And, she has a weird sense of entitlement for someone so average on all fronts.

I hope she doesn't take it out on her four children though. They are just stuck with a neglectful mother.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I've mentioned this in another thread but I think it bears repeating:

The overarching excuse that my bf gives for chasing after his ex while we were together is that "he didn't know how I felt about him" and thought that I may be going with other men. He never asked and there was never an ambiguous situation that might have suggested that.

So, part of that EA (considering the e-mails and texts between them, it doesn't sound like they had had sex after he and I started dating) included a trip to another city in which they shared a hotel room.

In one of our discussions where he was still trying to uphold the "we were just friends" line, I asked him "Would you mind if I took a trip with another man including sharing a hotel room with him."

He said, no, why would he? So when there's no proof at all, he could assume that I was fooling around, but if I were to openly cavort with one man in particular, he's ready to assume "we're just friends."

I'm always amused at how much liars are prepared to stretch their logic to fit the facts.


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## Xaviersheart (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh did I also mention he tried to say how lucky I am this time around for the pregnancy. He said that at least I won't be gaining all the weight I gained for baby number one becuase since he announced the affair the OBGYN put me on weight gainers. I am small framed at around 120 and had not been gaining weight. He thinks I should be thankful because his "announcement" has kept me small. WTFFFF:wtf::wtf:


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Through all the excuses and stupid comments my husband made the sense of his entitlement (to do whatever he wanted but no one else could) really made me sick.
This sticks out to me today too.
Me: How would you feel if I did this to you?
Him: Like crap but you would never do such a thing.
Me: I might. I am human and capable of anything.
Him: There is nothing human about you otherwise you would be able to understand that it is no big deal. You make a big deal out of everything.

Yeah I was JUST making a big deal out of nothing at all. He was a real piece during those days.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> In my case I married a woman who is an Aspie. Not an easy road. But, if I knew then what I know now, the problems and difficulties, the heartbreaks, the stresses, would I do it again?
> 
> _Yes. In a heartbeat._


My brother has Asperger's , Matt. he is the sweetest,most gentle person I know.
But, I am wondering what it is like being married to someone with that condition. My brother is single and lived at home his entire life. 
I suppose there are different levels. But, can you share feelings with your wife and does she have empathy?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> Through all the excuses and stupid comments my husband made the sense of his entitlement (to do whatever he wanted but no one else could) really made me sick.
> This sticks out to me today too.
> Me: How would you feel if I did this to you?
> Him: Like crap but you would never do such a thing.
> ...


Wow! And you are still married to this guy? Has he shown any remorse?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

On the entitlement/crazy logic deal, my first XW, a serial cheater, said two things that still amaze me.
First, several years after our divorce, i was picking up my sons from her house and mentioned I was aboutto breakup with a woman and was uncomfortable, as I had never broken up before(always the dumpee) and was really concerned about causing her pain.
My XW said" well, you dumped me". Realize that this woman cheated , serially for years and was the driving force behind our divorce. Yet, she felt dumped.
Second, when my second XW, also a serial cheater but slightly less prolific(I think, anyway), gave birth to our first daughter, my first wife told our sons that she was devastated, as that had been something special she shared with me.
It was so weird, not only that she would say that to our sons, butthat she felt as if we shared anything special, with her cheating most of the marriage.


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

Wife: 'I didnt know what I was doing but it felt good' (her having sex with many men from the chat)

Me: Wait you didnt know what you were doing but it felt good??


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Wow! And you are still married to this guy? Has he shown any remorse?


Yes we are still married and he has showed a lot of remorse. He has never been good with thinking before he speaks. He use to believe that the only thing that was cheating was actual physical contact of an intimate nature.

Now he has been educated and understands that what he had been doing was an EA and just as bad as a PA. He has made changes in his behaviors with females too. He avoids circumstances that could lead to another EA or be perceived as one by me.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

New_beginning said:


> Wife: 'I didnt know what I was doing but it felt good' (her having sex with many men from the chat)
> 
> Me: Wait you didnt know what you were doing but it felt good??


This is the type of thing I am referring to. Is our gene pool well served by procreating with adults who have the minds of children. It is reverse evolution.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> On the entitlement/crazy logic deal, my first XW, a serial cheater, said two things that still amaze me.
> First, several years after our divorce, i was picking up my sons from her house and mentioned I was aboutto breakup with a woman and was uncomfortable, as I had never broken up before(always the dumpee) and was really concerned about causing her pain.
> My XW said" well, you dumped me". Realize that this woman cheated , serially for years and was the driving force behind our divorce. Yet, she felt dumped.
> Second, when my second XW, also a serial cheater but slightly less prolific(I think, anyway), gave birth to our first daughter, my first wife told our sons that she was devastated, as that had been something special she shared with me.
> It was so weird, not only that she would say that to our sons, butthat she felt as if we shared anything special, with her cheating most of the marriage.


Really nuts. So creating children together was your special shared thing but not the act that creates children. Just WOW! I am surprised by that and I have heard a lot here to almost expect things that are out there. 
I wonder how common to cheating is the sense of entitlement??


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> "eveybody does that. i told him i didnt like it and he apologized"
> 
> "hes just a friend of my brother, i was trying to be nice"
> 
> ...


I heard all of the above. In my case, at least from I read, W's ex-bf was coming on to her on FB (he's 600+ miles away). She wasn't playing along with him too much, but she also didn't stop communicating with him. When I told her I was going to contact him, and that I wasn't going to be overly pleasant about it, she replied - "No! He's my friend, and you aren't ALLOWED to speak to him!" I replied, "He decided to cross my line, so now he's going to hear from me." Unless they went deep underground, I believe all contact is cut. Luckily, in my case the OM apparently wants to keep his marriage. He scattered after I let him know what a complete a-hole I would be if he didn't go NC now. 

As for wifey, I told her to go NC now, or pack her shyte.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> Really nuts. So creating children together was your special shared thing but not the act that creates children. Just WOW! I am surprised by that and I have heard a lot here to almost expect things that are out there.
> I wonder how common to cheating is the sense of entitlement??


The really weird thing is that she always performed well, academically. Yet, my XW seems to have some part of her brain that does not operate very well.
This is typical of the personality disordered. See , her frame of reference is so dramatically difeerent tht that of a normal person. 
Her logic is not flawed if the underlying premise is "I deserve more and am better than other people". If that is her premise(and it , clearly is), everything she does makes sense.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> "I cheated on you to deliberately hurt you. I can only get your attention to listen to me and pay attention when I hurt you really bad"


That sent a chill down my spine. My W started throwing out the word "attention" about a year ago. She'll say something shytty, an attempt at a dagger through my heart...and then later follow up with, "I was only trying to get your ATTENTION."


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

Ok I think I have the best one and feel free to laugh.

Wife: Telling guy to come over to her cousins house where she was staying for a while and 'do' her while she tells the guy (married guy) that she will put my daughter in the basement to watch TV so that she would tell her dad.

Me: Are you insane, you havre a guy at your cousins house no less (giving your cousins address) while you have our daughter in the basement to 'fool' her and you think thats safe and OK ??

Wife: Well he didnt even show up

Me: IRRELEVANT !! Shame on you !!

Wife: He didnt show up I told you

Me: I GIVE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> That sent a chill down my spine. My W started throwing out the word "attention" about a year ago. She'll say something shytty, an attempt at a dagger through my heart...and then later follow up with, "I was only trying to get your ATTENTION."


Oh Geez I got got an episoode of 'deja vu' when I read this one. I got hte same excuse. YOu didnt pay attention to me.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

New_beginning said:


> Ok I think I have the best one and feel free to laugh.
> 
> Wife: Telling guy to come over to her cousins house where she was staying for a while and 'do' her while she tells the guy (married guy) that she will put my daughter in the basement to watch TV so that she would tell her dad.
> 
> ...


I am not laughing. It is scary that your wife gave out personal information and locations where your kids are. 

My STBEH, gave out all sorts of personal information about me. We don't have children. Still that is why his OW is still stalking me and has been tormenting me since dday.

This woman is a serial cheater and obviously neglects her children to boff other men.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> My brother has Asperger's , Matt. he is the sweetest,most gentle person I know.
> But, I am wondering what it is like being married to someone with that condition. My brother is single and lived at home his entire life.
> I suppose there are different levels. But, can you share feelings with your wife and does she have empathy?


Sometimes she does. But sometimes it seems absent.

My wife also as no sense of direction. At all. She told me a very sad story of how she got lost walking half a mile to her home from her school when she was a child. Why? Someone had removed a section of their front garden wall and that threw her so much that she wandered around for over an hour, completely and utterly lost. 

But she holds several degrees (all first class honours) had MAs and Doctorates. I think the term High Functioning was invented for her.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> In my case I married a woman who is an Aspie. Not an easy road. But, if I knew then what I know now, the problems and difficulties, the heartbreaks, the stresses, would I do it again?
> 
> _Yes. In a heartbeat._


MattMatt, your wife is one lucky woman.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

After finding out my wife had unprotected sex with the OM, 

I ask:

So you just believed him when he said he was "fixed"?
Did you not think of me or MY safety, not to mention the possibility 
that he could've been lying and that you may have gotten pregnant?"


Her response:

Well, I didn't get pregnant, did I?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Her response:
> 
> Well, I didn't get pregnant, did I?


Lesson learned...don't bother with logic...not going to work on her. I have one like that. We had this exchange...

Me: You thought it was acceptable for you and your ex-bf to speak to each other like that?
W: Well...he's like a brother or friend. We were just kidding. You need to grow up.
Me: Would the two of you speak like that if your spouses were standing next to you?
W: Well...yeah.
Me: Okay. I'll contact his wife now, and tell her what her H said to you. If she's okay with that, I must be controlling as you say, and I'll back off. 

I started to walk away and she shoved her way past to block my exit. She then begged me not to make that call. A rare case in which simple logic eventually worked.


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I am not laughing. It is scary that your wife gave out personal information and locations where your kids are.
> 
> My STBEH, gave out all sorts of personal information about me. We don't have children. Still that is why his OW is still stalking me and has been tormenting me since dday.
> 
> This woman is a serial cheater and obviously neglects her children to boff other men.


It gets worse.

She told some of the guys my name and evne told one of them where I hang out and when and how I looked like. Not evne joking, I have it on her chat log. So I confront her about this one

Wife: Oh they are harmless these guys

Me: Me really after talking to them for 1 hour you know they are harmless

Wife: Anyone can find out about anybody

Me: I have a problem when you are out there inthe chat world giving my information and my whereabouts to strangers who I DON'T even know and you tell me they are harmless based on ??

Wife: Well why are you being a jerk about it, they dont even know you?

Me: a JERK?? **me hang up the phone in total and utter aggravation**


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

New Beg - hopefully you've freed yourself from this person.


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

l4u said:


> "I did it for spite because you didn't talk to me for 2 nights straight!"
> 
> Both times she cheated on me out of spite over something stupid.


Wow!

Next time remember Brother, If at all you decide not to talk with her again for long time, do it on alternate days. 

Sorry for that, Didn't want to make fun of you. I know what you must be feeling. I have still not come out of my wife's comments before 25 years. 

I just wonder why they can't say something better - at least to give us some breathing space!


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> New Beg - hopefully you've freed yourself from this person.


Not yet but we are seperated and nothing good can come out of this . She is seriously delusional


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Shamwow said:


> Barely got any discussion with XW about her affair (I left kind of abruptly), but she did eventually say something like "Things weren't sparking with us for a while, I was confused. I guess I figured I'd try it with OM and hopefully it would make me come running back to you."
> 
> Yep. Airtight logic, no?


_That's a GEM.
Such comments should be kept in an online museum.
_
What twisted logic!


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

akashNil said:


> _That's a GEM.
> Such comments should be kept in an online museum.
> _
> What twisted logic!


Nothing better in this world to learn that you're the backup plan if their affairs dont pan out..Great feeling huh?


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I think because of her extremely spoilt nature and the fact she could easily have any man she wants, she didn't vocally express remorse.
> 
> She's so used to men slobbering all over her stilettos I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling! .
> 
> But I could see it in her eyes that she was sorry, she had this constant longing look in her. She would bite her nails and just stare at me.


I have not seen your thread yet, but I will see it. It looks that she was very attractive, and still probably you walked out after her cheating.

Your sentences somehow touched my heart - exactly my experience. (But I also feel that a part of her is Happy at the same time to have done this). You made me very happy just by saying this.



Complexity said:


> I think she actually believed that I'd beg for _her_ back. Sorry darling!


Salute to you Sir! I wish I had that courage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zanna said:


> MattMatt, your wife is one lucky woman.


Thank you. But, actually, and I write this with some tears in my eyes, I think that I am a very lucky man. I mean, she chose me.


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> "When my father was sick you didn't do a thing about it." (Neither did the best doctors in the country).


Good one. 


Good Dog said:


> "We'd always agreed a little flirting and so on on the side was just fine." (No we didn't, and she gave me sh-- for years if a waitress even looked at me for too long when in a restaurant and will still accuse me of wanting to cheat now).


I can relate to that!


Good Dog said:


> "Plenty of other women at work have slept with him or thought about it, and I never heard about their husbands freaking out." (Oh, gee, now I feel guilty for complaining).


Huh? 



Good Dog said:


> "Look, you're heavy, slow, lost in thought and phone it in in bed, which makes me feel unattractive. I could tell he'd never be that way." (This one gets me the worst since I got this way working 60+ hours a week for 15 years so she could have the things she wastes our money on).


I am just on page 2 of this thread, and I am already feeling better. I am not the only one to have gone through all that. However, I didn't have this sense of humor.....


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## New_beginning (Jun 11, 2012)

Tnhats why these forums are a good place. You find out that youre not the only one going through those crazy things.

As sad as it is, I get comfort knowing that I'm not insane


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

When questioning about all the resturant charges on the bank statement I am told:

I eat out alone and I buy myself a second meal to take to work for lunch the next day. 

Yet, the bank statements reveal he is spending money on lunch the next day! LOL How delusional can an idiot be? LOL


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

New_beginning said:


> It gets worse.
> 
> She told some of the guys my name and evne told one of them where I hang out and when and how I looked like. Not evne joking, I have it on her chat log. So I confront her about this one
> 
> ...


This is a classic exmple of just how frustrating it is to try to have an intelligent discussion with someone who is either disordered or dumb or both.
I often thought that if I had my XW on the stand, in front of a jury, I could score innumerable points and destroy her.
But, see, the probelm is that when you score all these points, making her look ridiculous , without third parties present to assess the contest, the cheater does not even recognize your having made their position look ridiculous.
I can still remember pointing out to my XW that she had been out 230 out of 365 nights until after midnight. 
Rather than dispute the tally, she was just amazed that i had any objection. She looked me straight in the eye and said"Of course I have more time off than you. I have more friends. Get used to it."
See , irt was completely logical, in her world where she was better than others, to have done this. She was essentially saying "What is your point?"


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

akashNil said:


> I have not seen your thread yet, but I will see it. It looks that she was very attractive, and still probably you walked out after her cheating.
> 
> Your sentences somehow touched my heart - exactly my experience. (But I also feel that a part of her is Happy at the same time to have done this). You made me very happy just by saying this.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind words akashNil. Besides the aesthetic features she was a gentle soul and very naive to the world. I think that was my primary attraction to her. She was raised very poorly by her parents whom evidently didn't teach her the meaning of consequences and responsibility. She got away with a lot of stuff in her life because she was daddy's little girl. I thought I knew the "real" her but I guess you never really know someone.

I wish you the best in your relationship


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

My H is now trying to explain to me about not being able to have friends of the opposite sex in the work place...because of how people will "perceive" it. 

I think he is telling me this trying to downplay his "friendships" with the 2 women.. and he didn't even work with them,, they were exes for gosh sakes!!! 

IT'S NOT WORKING!!!


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## WorkOnIt (Jun 6, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Thank you for your kind words akashNil. Besides the aesthetic features she was a gentle soul and very naive to the world. I think that was my primary attraction to her. She was raised very poorly by her parents whom evidently didn't teach her the meaning of consequences and responsibility. She got away with a lot of stuff in her life because she was daddy's little girl. I thought I knew the "real" her but I guess you never really know someone.
> 
> I wish you the best in your relationship


I'm not alone!


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

WorkOnIt said:


> I'm not alone!


I bet a lot of us had to walk away from spouse we were attrcted to, It is tough. You wonder if you will ever feel that way about another person.
But , you cannot live happily without self respect. I would rather be alone than treated like I was.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Lone Star said:


> When questioning about all the resturant charges on the bank statement I am told:
> 
> I eat out alone and I buy myself a second meal to take to work for lunch the next day.
> 
> Yet, the bank statements reveal he is spending money on lunch the next day! LOL How delusional can an idiot be? LOL


the turning point in my bf's EA came on the night when he met his EA to watch a game at the sports bar. The charge was GBP127 (that's nearly $200) at a place where hamburgers cost GBP8 and beer and wine are about GBP5 and GBP6 a glass. 

The first story my bf gave was that well, she offered me GBP 50 towards the bill(not lcear whether he actually got it). It somehow didn't ring true to me. If they were truly just friends -- and from the e-mails and texts, it's clear she was there with HER friends -- why wouldn't she just split 50/50 with him. And here in the UK, bars and restaurants are happy to use more than one card to pay a single tab.

My bf later said that the charge was only for the two of them and that they had also drunk about shots that evening.

I hope he understands that I believe neither of those stories.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Lesson learned...don't bother with logic...not going to work on her. I have one like that. We had this exchange...
> 
> Me: You thought it was acceptable for you and your ex-bf to speak to each other like that?
> W: Well...he's like a brother or friend. We were just kidding. You need to grow up.
> ...


I agree. I wonder about this fog thing and the cheater not being able to use logic due to hormones. 

I say Bull, My STBEH was also clear thinking enough to try to protect the OW saying he did not want to ruin her marriage or the lives of her 4 kids. 

Well why didn't the two of them think of their marriages and her kids, prior. 

I saw that STBEH did have the ability to think logically.

Now to my mind the real person in the fog is the betrayed spouse who has been blindsided and hurt beyond belief. They are the ones who really likely can't think straight and it's not about silly sex hormones. 

When it comes to sex hormones we are talking about adults for cripes sake, not teen agers.


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