# Traditional vs independent women!



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My last thread identified that we may all see traditional or independent women differently! 

What type of women do you say you prefer - if any? And by that how would you define a traditional or independent woman?
The stereotypes so far seem to range from kitchen appliances to man-haters 😅


----------



## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

I like my wife to have a mind of her own. I raised my daughter to be independent and take no crap. 

I have a mother and had a grandmother, don't need any other women to hover over me.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I prefer 3rd option.....big 'ol titties


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I like them to have traditional vaginas and independent enough to find their way home when the night is over.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

My wife is my ideal combo. She comes from a male dominant segment of the Aussie culture and is good with the man running things. However, she is feisty and can handle domineering men who cross the line. She has an independent quirkiness which drew me to her.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> I like them to have traditional vaginas and independent enough to find their way home when the night is over.


Hahahahah


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Julie's Husband said:


> My wife is my ideal combo. She comes from a male dominant segment of the Aussie culture and is good with the man running things. However, she is feisty and can handle domineering men who cross the line. She has an independent quirkiness which drew me to her.


There's a reason I omitted a "both" option on the poll, I want to see preferences lol

Which side of the fence do you lean most towards etc etc


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

If she expects me to rely on her in the house or do stuff like handle my medications / doctor appointments, we're probably not going to get along.

Similarly, if she's going to treat the relationship as a business partnership, that's probably going to be a problem too. 'Independent' often implies being less committed, having one foot out the door.

I'm a bit "different" so independent is less likely to have unmet expectations herself so I would expect a more tranquil / happier home life.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

On the previous thread it was noted that the traits of a traditional woman included being the rock for the man, nurturing and not comparing him to other men etc. At the same time I know I look at women who aren't financially independent a lot differently than a woman who is. So I voted independent.

Yet if that's what a traditional woman is like, then I guess I've missed out my whole life.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

RandomDude said:


> There's a reason I omitted a "both" option on the poll, I want to see preferences lol
> 
> Which side of the fence do you lean most towards etc etc


Independent.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I've had a bit of dating experience over the years and that experience has made me treasure a more traditionally minded, feminine woman. I'd rather not have to worry about a woman that scoffs at the prospect of her cooking dinner. I don't want to worry that my wife might raise our kids to be LGBTQ just because she can earn clout online. No thanks. Gimme a Conservative, Trad-wife.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> I've had a bit of dating experience over the years and that experience has made me treasure a more traditionally minded, feminine woman. I'd rather not have to worry about a woman that scoffs at the prospect of her cooking dinner. I don't want to worry that my wife might raise our kids to be LGBTQ just because she can earn clout online. No thanks. Gimme a Conservative, Trad-wife.


I'm thinking what is resonating in my thoughts right now is about respect when mentioned on the other thread. A traditional woman respects her husband as principle. An independent woman, demands that respect be earned.

Sometimes to earn that respect you will have to put the foot down. My mistake was tolerating a lot of crap, but what else can we do as men but weather their bullsh-t out of love? They are already guaranteed their crazy phases each month.

Meh, this is why I threw a wrench at the whole thing.


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I grew up in a very traditional home. My mom never worked, cooked dinner every day, cleaned, raised children. My dad worked and was in charge of bills and house maintenance. 

I think the ideal is to keep a balance in between independent and traditional. It's not easy, but it's possible. I'm more traditional and I feel independent. Maybe it's because I don't feel emotionally dependent? I don't feel threatened if I have to change roles in order to keep my family happy.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Depending on the definition, traditional.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> I'm thinking what is resonating in my thoughts right now is about respect when mentioned on the other thread. A traditional woman respects her husband as principle. An independent woman, demands that respect be earned.
> 
> Sometimes to earn that respect you will have to put the foot down. My mistake was tolerating a lot of crap, but what else can we do as men but weather their bullsh-t out of love? They are already guaranteed their crazy phases each month.
> 
> Meh, this is why I threw a wrench at the whole thing.


..and when you DO put up with a lot of crap, they see it as a weakness, lose respect for you, and treat you accordingly. Take it from me, man, never be afraid to walk away or at least call someone out for poor behavior. 

My wife was just raised in a very Conservative culture and while she feels she has to adapt a little, she still carries those values with her. She was raised to believe certain things were just her job and she takes great pride in that job. I was feeling pretty dead inside too and ready to just go be awful in the world but sometimes when you meet the right person, that changes. I got faith in you, man. I hope you find your happiness, whatever that is.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

pastasauce79 said:


> I grew up in a very traditional home. My mom never worked, cooked dinner every day, cleaned, raised children. My dad worked and was in charge of bills and house maintenance.
> 
> I think the ideal is to keep a balance in between independent and traditional. It's not easy, but it's possible. I'm more traditional and I feel independent. Maybe it's because I don't feel emotionally dependent? I don't feel threatened if I have to change roles in order to keep my family happy.


From my experience most of my partners were both, all the independent women in my life cooked and cleaned for example. Makes me curious about preferences though.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

RandomDude said:


> I'm thinking what is resonating in my thoughts right now is about respect when mentioned on the other thread. A traditional woman respects her husband as principle. An independent woman, demands that respect be earned.
> 
> Sometimes to earn that respect you will have to put the foot down. My mistake was tolerating a lot of crap, but what else can we do as men but weather their bullsh-t out of love? They are already guaranteed their crazy phases each month.
> 
> Meh, this is why I threw a wrench at the whole thing.


I think that these descriptions are overly broad. I do not find that independent women are demanding or self centered, just able to get things done without dependence on others.

I prefer a very egalitarian relationship. My wife's brother could not understand that there is not a "boss" in our relationship.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> ..and when you DO put up with a lot of crap, they see it as a weakness, lose respect for you, and treat you accordingly. Take it from me, man, never be afraid to walk away or at least call someone out for poor behavior.
> 
> My wife was just raised in a very Conservative culture and while she feels she has to adapt a little, she still carries those values with her. She was raised to believe certain things were just her job and she takes great pride in that job. I was feeling pretty dead inside too and ready to just go be awful in the world but sometimes when you meet the right person, that changes. I got faith in you, man. I hope you find your happiness, whatever that is.


I've walked away from them, called them out, we just fight, and she makes up. Last one even though she starts the fight she complained that "it's always me trying to bring us back together" 
There's only one solution and it was the final one. Guess the relationship just had to run its course.

As for dating if I want to go back I know exactly what to do and which approach to take. Maybe one day I reach down and find something left to give after all, but it won't be much. I was already exhausted with a lot by the time I reached my last ex and I reached in as far as I could go.


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> From my experience most of my partners were both, all the independent women in my life cooked and cleaned for example. Makes me curious about preferences though.


I prefer the traditional role because trying to be independent, career oriented is exhausting when you have a family. I don't believe women can have it all. I was exhausted working full time and going to school before having kids, I can't imagine trying to do the same now when half of my time is spent driving my kids around, feeding them, doing stuff for them... I work part time and I'm lucky to work whenever I want or whenever I can. Keeping a balance planning every day is another job! But I like it. My husband and kids are happy and that's important to me.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Julie's Husband said:


> I think that these descriptions are overly broad.


Yes, deliberately so, open to all interpretations


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I have to admit... the poll results so far are quite unexpected!  Very interesting!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I have to admit... the poll results so far are quite unexpected!  Very interesting!


Dead even.😉


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would say that most women are a mixture of the two. In many ways I am traditional but am also a strong woman who has been through such a lot, knows my own mind and refuses to accept any nonsense.
I am also very nurturing and am happy to do a lot of the housework and cooking.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I believe it to be a somewhat catastrophic mistake to associate traditional with weakness or independent with strength. They are both simply life choice paths.

Mrs. C is very traditional by choice and it suits her nature but thinking her weak is a serious mistake.

I must admit I don't understand female hierarchy but I've seen a great number of women who are intimidated, threatened by or highly respect my wife.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

I'm a wife and mom of four kids (4 boys). I work (from home unless I have an in-person meeting). I cook dinner 5-6 days a week. Hubby usually cooks dinner 1 or 2 days in the week to give me a break. About once every week, he will tell me not to cook and suggests to order food because he feels bad that I might be tired and have to cook. I usually don't take him up on that offer though.

I love taking care of my children AND my husband. Every day I make him breakfast to-go and I make him a lunch. If I don't, he won't eat at work. Hubby is a great father and he helps with the kids but I'm the main person who does most stuff for them.

I'm also the one who budgets and takes care of paying bills and because of this his pay is basically "mine" (it's ours). What I mean is that he doesn't ever question me where or how money from the account was spent--everyone's belly is full, the lights are still on, kids are well taken care of, we have savings, in other words, all is good. And of course my pay is also ours and is also used towards bills and stuff too.

My work is writing and I have deadlines that are on average about a week. This allows me to make time for everything. Also, I could be working and typing away while I have dinner cooking.

So I don't know if I'd be considered a "traditional" or an "independent" woman. I just do me, we do us, and it works!


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

so_sweet said:


> I'm a wife and mom of four kids (4 boys). I work (from home unless I have an in-person meeting). I cook dinner 5-6 days a week. Hubby usually cooks dinner 1 or 2 days in the week to give me a break. At least once every week, he will tell me not to cook and suggests to order food because he feels bad that I might be tired and have to cook. I usually don't take him up on that offer though.
> 
> I love taking care of my children AND my husband. Every day I make him breakfast to-go and I make him a lunch. If I don't, he won't eat at work. Hubby is a great father and he helps with the kids but I'm the main person who does most stuff for them.
> 
> ...


Like many of us you are both


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I believe it to be a somewhat catastrophic mistake to associate traditional with weakness or independent with strength. They are both simply life choice paths.
> 
> Mrs. C is very traditional by choice and it suits her nature but thinking her weak is a serious mistake.
> 
> I must admit I don't understand female hierarchy but I've seen a great number of women who are intimidated, threatened by or highly respect my wife.


Agree totally. Strength the way the world sees it, is often not strength at all. People who feel the need to strive and succeed often do so because they have low self esteem and need that worldly success to feel good about themselves. Those who are happy to be more traditional often have a much stronger character and better self esteem. Hence they have nothing to prove.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I believe I've been married to one of each! They have pluses and minuses, and for different stages of life. 

For raising children, I think it's ideal for one of the couple to have no job, or a very light job, because their main work is being the primary attachment figure for the children. A SAHM. 
Later on, it's better for both to have a decent income, because that makes things more comfortable and reduces risk. Once the children are grown, the cooking/cleaning stuff should represent no more than 1 or 2 hours a day of work. At least, that was how it worked out for me. When you're both in your 50s, nobody wants to stay home all day "cooking and cleaning". 

What I sometimes discourage is couples who work together (in the family business or whatever). That can cause issues, although it sometimes works.


----------



## elliblue (7 mo ago)

OnTheFly said:


> I prefer 3rd option.....big 'ol titties


Oh so funny! What does this has to do with the question???

How boobs obsessed men are always so proud that they fancy boobs.
As if that makes you manly. No, it doesn't!

Yo mummy didn't breast feed you, little boy? That is why you are looking for a mummy (titts) and not a partner.
You still got the reflex of a baby to look out for boobs, since you haven't been breast fed until you were fed up with breast milk. That is why you kept that craving for boobs and develope an idee that big boobs mean a lot of food and will satisfy your hunger.

You know the bigger the boobs, the more used up and less functioning the ovaries are?

That is why we women get very large boobs once we go into menopause and beyond. Once we aren't fertile anymore.
So your instinct doesn't goes towards reproduction, rather towards sadisfying a premature urge you have since you were a baby and that never has been eased like it should by the age of 1 year...

A lot of women also don't like men obsessed witht their boobs. Makes them feel like the guy is a baby.

*So I suggest from you mentioning boobs that you are for traditional (homely) women. One who is like a mother and maybe unlike your own mother always available to nurture your needs.*


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

elliblue said:


> Oh so funny! What does this has to do with the question???
> 
> How boobs obsessed men are always so proud that they fancy boobs.
> As if that makes you manly. No, it doesn't!
> ...


Hey now, you can't blame a man for subscribing to boob power! 😅 










It's obvious where the power comes from!


----------



## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Hey now, you can't blame a man for subscribing to boob power! 😅
> 
> View attachment 93869
> 
> ...


This is why I should keep out of the Mens's Clubhouse. 🤦‍♀️


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Brigit24 said:


> This is why I should keep out of the Mens's Clubhouse. 🤦‍♀️


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


>


I want to change my vote to Boobs!!!!


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Traditional with strong independence. And boobs of course


----------



## Kput (3 mo ago)

Independent. I recall my wife suggesting she was going to get her first tattoo and wanted my opinion, I just said your body your choice and what design do you have in mind. If I had said I don't think it's a good idea I believe she would still have gone ahead with it as she wanted my opinion not my permission.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Independent. I think a traditional woman would drive me crazy, unless...


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I like them to have traditional vaginas and independent enough to find their way home when the night is over.


How could any woman turn down that level of romantic?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I wanted a wife who fulfilled traditional gender roles. 

I expected her to sacrifice her career growth for kids, at least for a while, with the expectation that I bring home the bacon. As such my own career growth would be prioritized.

In addition I wanted her to better at the soft skills that women are supposed to be better at.

I suppose by that I also wanted her to expect the inverse, that she would expect a husband to excel at traditional male stuff.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Traditional with strong independence. And boobs of course


So you would like an independent lady who doesn't feel she needs to change her body shape to please and attract men? To conform to the world standards?


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

elliblue said:


> *So I suggest....*


Don’t care.

Guten Tag, Frau Carin.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> So you would like an independent lady who doesn't feel she needs to change her body shape to please and attract men? To conform to the world standards?


Yes. Conforming to world standards is for weak-minded people.
The boob comment was a joke, a woman's body is beautiful as it is. Big boobs or not.

Traditional values, but is comfortable with who she is not afraid to be herself.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I dunno...

I have spent my entire life as the one that everyone relies on, the 'boss", the Jefe, etc..Its frigging exhausting, most of the time, but its the life I have chosen(in my work/career)...

I don't want that to carry on when I am home...I prefer strong, self assured woman that don't always have to defer to me all the time...I get that all day long, as I said... I don't want anyone to kiss my ass for no apparent reason, or get my shoes or do all this stuff, I am not knocking it, its nice, but I don't want it...I want to be seen as the male to her female, not this dynamic where guys like to think they are Kings of their domain,...lol.

I am completely capable and competent with cooking and cleaning...I love a prepared meal and a clean environment, but that all depends on who had the time to do it...I don't just expect it to be done..When my daughter was born, I was fully prepared to change her, put her to bed, whatever....Like I said, its not about who's "job" it is, but more about who was more available...

I also can't stand the types of women that call you freaking out when they see a spider on the wall or fall apart when they get a flat tire..If you need me to get involved I gladly will, but don't be a "damsel in distress' ....I know a lot of guys like this dynamic, but I really don't...If the smoke detector is beeping, change the freaking battery and don't call me and ask me what to do about it...lol.. 

Ive already rambled too much, yall get the picture...lol..


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

There you go. My wife asks for spider kills and smoke detector changes. I’m like, “Show me where it is baby I will take care of that for you.”


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Read this....









20 Plus Years, very happy husband writes...


I wrote this in response to another question about what I wished I had known from the beginning of marriage, but it may generate interest here also... I've been married for over 20 years, with 3 kids. I would describe myself as extremely happy. Here's some of the things I wished I'd known from...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





This is a good example of what a balanced male/female traditional relationship looks like. I know some are going to balk at the spanking thing but that's missing the forest for the trees.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Not said:


> Read this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He had me at spanking.😋


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife doesn’t like spanking but she will sometimes enjoy the occasional ass slap. 👋


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One thing I noticed is if the cat is around she will ask the cat to kill spiders as well, but he’s also a guy. She’ll go “look kitty, a spider! You’re supposed to kill anything that moves!” So she also appreciates traditional roles for cats.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I like them to have traditional vaginas and independent enough to find their way home when the night is over.


Be still my heart. 😏


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I prefer independent women who WANT to be with me. I prefer an educated, career-minded woman who doesn't need me to support her, and is capable of handling pretty much anything life throws at her. That said, with such a woman I can form a true partnership where we divide responsibilities according to our strengths and preferences, but know we can rely on each other in those times when we are unable to handle that item, so it doesn't get neglected. Many things we choose to do together, because we _like _to.

My wife is a far better cook, for example, and has done most of that in the past. Since I retired, I've learned a lot about cooking, and now we share more and more of it. I'm better at financial planning and decisions (one of my degrees is in finance, after all), but she is capable of taking over most of that, and we review most things together. So, we each do take on some traditional roles, but we can switch if needed. We both clean and do laundry and other household tasks.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I'll go with traditional hoping that means they follow directions and don't question mine


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Which one nags less?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Them, those.....loyal, not bossy, enjoyable to be around.

The rest can be dealt with.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I prefer women who have qualities of both


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> On the previous thread it was noted that the traits of a traditional woman included being the rock for the man, nurturing and not comparing him to other men etc. At the same time I know I look at women who aren't financially independent a lot differently than a woman who is. So I voted independent.
> 
> Yet if that's what a traditional woman is like, then I guess I've missed out my whole life.


DH is my drug. I am addicted. There are no other men except in vague memory of the Before Times. The Before Times were fun, but this thing I have with him is....everything.

DH does all the for pay work. I do all the not for pay work. This includes bill payment and account management, household repairs, yard work, auto repairs, etc. etc. What I can't do myself I arrange estimates and handle hiring and payment of professionals.

DH gets breakfast in bed daily. I get up a bit earlier to cook us food, get his lunch packed, and his water cooler filled with ice water. In the winter I preheat and scrape the ice and snow off his car. I lay out his clothes and gear while he showers and I braid his hair when he's ready. 

I spend whatever time he wants on the phone while he drives. We bullchit while he does his work and I do mine. Part of it is browsing the internet for news and other topics to chat about. I also act as navigator and weatherperson when needed. 

I research and give my opinion, but final decisions are made by DH. 

I'm kind of a Jack of All Trades by nature and have always been interested in a variety of things, so whatever hobbies DH is into mine will usually dovetail. He picked up miniature painting and an interest in tabletop gaming, I picked up an interest in 3D printing and STL pirating. He picked up an interest in baking, I learned a lot about appliances and how to find the best quality for a decent price. Same with exercise equipment when he wanted to begin to lose weight and become more fit for our health. 

He wants sex of some kind, I'm interested. He's the most sexually appealing man I have ever met. How could I not be interested?

Yes, I am nurturing and his rock. And, yes, I will also kick his ass when needed.

Could I do it alone and do it well? Yes. But why would I want to? I like being the half of the whole that I am.




RandomDude said:


> A traditional woman respects her husband as principle. An independent woman, demands that respect be earned.


A traditional woman's husband earned her respect before they married.



ConanHub said:


> I believe it to be a somewhat catastrophic mistake to associate traditional with weakness or independent with strength.


Some of the most literally dangerous women I have known were traditional types. 



Laurentium said:


> When you're both in your 50s, nobody wants to stay home all day "cooking and cleaning".


I do!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> A traditional woman's husband earned her respect before they married.


100%


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Not said:


> Read this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No violence in this house thanks 😳


----------



## Kput (3 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> No violence in this house thanks 😳


Not violence just eroticism is done right👍


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kput said:


> Not violence just eroticism is done right👍


How is hitting/spanking not violence?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> How is hitting/spanking not violence?


Google comes up with:

_behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something._

It isn’t any of those, so it’s not. Oh yeah, words are also not violence (see above).


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> How is hitting/spanking not violence?


Think vigorous sex instead of whatever you are imagining.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Think vigorous sex instead of whatever you are imagining.


Nothing like a good spanking to get the engines running!!


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm having trouble understanding what is meant by independent or traditional.

Has this been defined?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm having trouble understanding what is meant by independent or traditional.
> 
> Has this been defined?


My understanding is:

Traditional: SAHM, raising kids, having doors held open for, etc

Independent: Career driven, better not open a door for her, don't need no man to kill a spider, etc.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> Nothing like a good spanking to get the engines running!!


OR as a finishing touch when the engines are about to cool down!! Mine comes at the end! LOL!! Just one smack on the butt!

I CAN'T BELIEVE I am saying this out loud (well, posting it)!!! LOL.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

so_sweet said:


> OR as a finishing touch when the engines are about to cool down!! Mine comes at the end! LOL!! Just one smack on the butt!
> 
> I CAN'T BELIEVE I am saying this out loud (well, posting it)!!! LOL.


I could tell you stories about all the different and varied things some women like. Don't feel embarrassed at all all!


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Google comes up with:
> 
> _behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something._
> 
> It isn’t any of those, so it’s not. Oh yeah, words are also not violence (see above).


Unless you have no nerve endings spanking and hitting would definitely hurt. If you enjoy pain or being hurt than that's fine. Personally, I don't enjoy pain  .


----------



## Kput (3 mo ago)

No you don't but others feel different. Probably tmi but seeing my wife bent over in seamed stockings and tight black panties and asking repeat asking to be spanked is a major turn on.

Each to their own D7 but you do seem to come over as someone's maiden aunt.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> No violence in this house thanks 😳


It doesn't have to be spanking but the spanking signifies something deeper. His commitment to taking lead and protecting the relationship and her trusting him to lead and protect her. It's an energy exchange.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> My understanding is:
> 
> Traditional: SAHM, raising kids, having doors held open for, etc
> 
> Independent: Career driven, better not open a door for her, don't need no man to kill a spider, etc.


These seem like narrow, binary choices.

Is there not a happy medium?

Lots of women work but like having doors opened for them and like having a masculine guy around. Sure, I can handle a lot of things but that's because helplessness isn't a good idea. It doesn't mean a strong guy isn't a huge plus.

As for spiders...I don't need no man to kill spiders for me! But that's because I quite like spiders and have the spider relocation program in my house. They eat bugs and I appreciate that so they get swept onto a dustpan and relocated outside.

My bf would kill them though if I asked.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> These seem like narrow, binary choices.
> 
> Is there not a happy medium?
> 
> ...


I would be happy to take care of any and all spiders and bugs if the woman took care of the rodents!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> These seem like narrow, binary choices.
> 
> Is there not a happy medium?
> 
> ...


Of course, all the women in my life were mix of both but I wanted to see preferences. If I put a both option, majority would vote both. 

Like my fav body part thread, most men would vote duh the whole package 😅

Now the poll results reveal that men lean more towards what they believe is traditional.

The definitions may vary, but it is quite enlightening now.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Of course, all the women in my life were mix of both but I wanted to see preferences. If I put a both option, majority would vote both.
> 
> Like my fav body part thread, most men would vote duh the whole package 😅
> 
> ...



I wont say its the case for anyone participating in the thread, but a lot of guys prefer "traditional" women, because they are insecure... A lot of guys see independent women as not really needing them...So they decide to pick women who may be more needy, more sheltered, so they don't get any idea what life may be like without them...

I even knew a guy that didn't like his wife to work for fear she would fall for someone else at the job...lol...


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> I wont say its the case for anyone participating in the thread, but a lot of guys prefer "traditional" women, because they are insecure... A lot of guys see independent women as not really needing them...So they decide to pick women who may be more needy, more sheltered, so they don't get any idea what life may be like without them...
> 
> I even knew a guy that didn't like his wife to work for fear she would fall for someone else at the job...lol...


I also wonder if it's because some men associate independent with ball busting career women who don't need no freaking mam.

If that's what they imagine I can understand why they don't want it. But that's not a lot of career women.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I would be happy to take care of any and all spiders and bugs if the woman took care of the rodents!


Rodents.....just no.

I will handle snakes though.....they aren't filthy and eat rodents. 

Is that an acceptable compromise?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing I noticed is if the cat is around she will ask the cat to kill spiders as well, but he’s also a guy. She’ll go “look kitty, a spider! You’re supposed to kill anything that moves!” So she also appreciates traditional roles for cats.


Lol my old floofy murdered anything that moved, birds included I guess she was very traditional 😆

If my daughter is around (and if floofy didn't murder it) she handles the huntman spiders for the household. She plays with them actually, she's true blue Aussie when it comes to this, it shames me because they freak me out too much I go for the kill route as my nerves aren't good enough to capture. You need to be fast, quick, accurate, and non reactive when the spider moves. I fail on the last part.

She enjoys watching everyone freak out and beg her to take the spider away lol, if you can picture two grown adults (me and ex wife) climbing on the sofa freaking out with a little girl coming towards us playing with a massive spider on her arms giggling at us... yeah 😖

But she's not around all the time, still remember with last ex a huntman spider showed up on my windshield to say hello, I was like ah hello, stay outside, maybe if I drive very fast you will disappear. Nope it already decided my car was to be it's new home and gave me frights randomly on the road.

When I picked up my ex I warned her, saying there's a huntsman crawling around, didn't want her to get scared. The second I said that, the spider went up to her seat window and said hi, and she freaked out 😅

Then we went to the car wash immediately, and hand washed everything. But we were both still jumpy from all the random scares. Then finally at the end of the day, we parked thinking it was all over, and she opened the door and the spider crawled into her side of the cabin. She screamed and climbed on top of me lol and we had to "evacuate" from the drivers seat. It was crawling all over the inside of the car so I had to spray and kill lol, what a day!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> I also wonder if it's because some men associate independent with ball busting career women who don't need no freaking mam.
> 
> If that's what they imagine I can understand why they don't want it. But that's not a lot of career women.


Its like stereotypes of traditional women as a kitchen appliances, we all have our associations based on our experiences 😊 it's interesting no?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Rodents.....just no.
> 
> I will handle snakes though.....they aren't filthy and eat rodents.
> 
> Is that an acceptable compromise?


No because nobody would take care of the rodents and they would run wild!! Better get some cats


----------



## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

As a related issue. My wife grew up as a "tomboy". As I have gotten older, I really like it when she dresses and acts more feminine. She hates wearing dresses though, and really only does it for weddings, funerals, etc. Our daughter, was always a "girly-girl", but she can get dirty and sweaty when she wants. We raised our children on the ranch we owned, so they grew up understanding and doing ranch/farm work.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> No because nobody would take care of the rodents and they would run wild!! Better get some cats


I have 3 cats!


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm having trouble understanding what is meant by independent or traditional.
> 
> Has this been defined?


One buys herself dinner before putting ankles in the air, the other get treated to dinner first. 🙂


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Which one nags less?


Apparently a true traditional woman doesn't nag at all 😅

(Watches +10 votes for traditional) 🙊


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> There you go. My wife asks for spider kills and smoke detector changes. I’m like, “Show me where it is baby I will take care of that for you.”


That's because you are ALWAYS bartering away everything for sex, isn't it?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Which one nags less?


Independent. If they have to nag much, they'll just leave you.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Kput said:


> No you don't but others feel different. Probably tmi but seeing my wife bent over in seamed stockings and tight black panties and asking repeat asking to be spanked is a major turn on.
> 
> Each to their own D7 but you do seem to come over as someone's maiden aunt.


Smarmy, rude and insulting. She's one of the small percentage of people on here in a happy marriage, so she's doing something right.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Independent. If they have to nag much, they'll just leave you.


Well I guess that's reassuring.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well I guess that's reassuring.


Actually is a good thing


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well I guess that's reassuring.


It's true. If they're truly independent, why would they stay with a childish man who WASN'T capable of doing his part without nagging?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. If they're truly independent, why would they stay with a childish man who WASN'T capable of doing his part without nagging?


You are assuming that the Harpy has a real reason to nag or is just an insufferable hen who is never happy.

Mostly it's the second kind.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> You are assuming that the Harpy has a real reason to nag or is just an insufferable hen who is never happy.
> 
> Mostly it's the second kind.


Unless a man can do everything that TikTok husbands and boyfriends do all around the world for their partners, regardless of what he does for her which are seen as mere "expectations", then he's not good enough 😅

It's not enough that you respond to me within the hour each day, when you F up even by 1 minute prepare to get nagged.
It's not enough that you listen attentively and get me whatever I want no matter the price, that's the bare minimum.
It's not enough that you spent the effort to wrap up the presents and got me multiples, the card was not handwritten.
It's not enough that you pick me up everyday, you need to show up to surprise me randomly and with gifts.
It's not enough that you take me wherever I need to go, you need to offer to do that for me without me asking.
It's not enough that you help out cooking and cleaning, you need to surprise me with a meal out of the blue.

I don't care about what you do for me when I ask, those are just my expectations. I don't care about what the late night runs to find pills for the period pain, any man would do that. That does not show me that you love me. It's all about initiative and effort, this is what boyfriend A does for his girlfriend, that is what boyfriend B does for his girlfriend without them asking. This is what I see from TikTok and what my friends boast to me about and expect for you to up them so I can boast back.

Guess I'm too childish to have a relationship!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Honestly looking back I still remember ex-wife switched to a more traditional mindset with our daughter, and it was my fault that I did not appreciate it. I still don't. I just lost respect for her.

I still have it hardwired in me to go for more independent women. If I was a different man maybe my love life could have been different. I probably wouldn't have divorced in the first place. But hey, just my experiences and thinking out loud.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> One buys herself dinner before putting ankles in the air, the other get treated to dinner first. 🙂


Before they show themselves out.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's because you are ALWAYS bartering away everything for sex, isn't it?


Haha I do hate changing the 9V. I can never get the damn thing back on. With one of them it was peeping at 2am and I literally destroyed it. I took the battery out and somehow it was still peeping so I took it to the garage and smashed it with a hammer into little bits. I think it had a backup internally or something, no idea…


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Oh yeah my wife was also happy for me to do rat exclusions and minor carpentry until I fell off a ladder.

I bought a mamba bag for boxing practice in the yard last week and she said NO. She said I couldn’t use it until the doctor cleared me. She was on a phone call for work and I said, “I’m going to go outside and setup that bag.” She didn’t say no (was on the call). When she finished the call I was in the middle of round three. She came outside and said, “YOU’RE BAD!”

Traditional gender roles affirmed. Man does something stupid and gets yelled at.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha I do hate changing the 9V. I can never get the damn thing back on. With one of them it was peeping at 2am and I literally destroyed it. I took the battery out and somehow it was still peeping so I took it to the garage and smashed it with a hammer into little bits. I think it had a backup internally or something, no idea…


I hate those. I have had dogs who would go crazy if one was beeping. I took mine off the ceiling and just lay them around now.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha I do hate changing the 9V. I can never get the damn thing back on. With one of them it was peeping at 2am and I literally destroyed it. I took the battery out and somehow it was still peeping so I took it to the garage and smashed it with a hammer into little bits. I think it had a backup internally or something, no idea…


Hate when that happens!!! They are starting to put some workmanship into those things now. More difficult to rip off the walls and smash…

And it always seems to start at midnight.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I hate those. I have had dogs who would go crazy if one was beeping. I took mine off the ceiling and just lay them around now.


The ones in our house are wired, have 9V, and then also some battery backup inside, so 3 power sources. Very very annoying. I am tall so I can reach them without a ladder.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha I do hate changing the 9V. I can never get the damn thing back on. With one of them it was peeping at 2am and I literally destroyed it. I took the battery out and somehow it was still peeping so I took it to the garage and smashed it with a hammer into little bits. I think it had a backup internally or something, no idea…


Sometimes there's residual charge in the circuit even after the battery is removed.

It should stop after a few minutes, buy supposedly holding the test button down for 30 seconds is supposed to drain it.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Sometimes there's residual charge in the circuit even after the battery is removed.
> 
> It should stop after a few minutes, buy supposedly holding the test button down for 30 seconds is supposed to drain it.


BTW Mrs found the alarm murder scene when she asked what happened to the alarm and why there was a hole in the ceiling. She was not amused.

I got a C in physics electronics lab freshman year and only because my lab partner was hitting on the TA and she liked it so she’d demo on our bench and leave it partially done.

That was non-traditional roles. Have pretty boy bat his eyelashes at competent lady physicist science lady, “Oh demo on our bench wink wink wink…”. I was not too proud.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm having trouble understanding what is meant by independent or traditional.
> 
> Has this been defined?


This^^^!! 

Whenever I ask for the definition of traditional and independent, I've gotten completely different opinions ranging from a few qualities to lists of qualities. 

Like most things, traditional and independent are the extreme ends of a spectrum. I believe most women fall somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Independent. If they have to nag much, they'll just leave you.


I liked your post but I think it comes with the caveat that "financially independent" women who are not Co-dependent will leave rather than nag. I know plenty of financially independent women who put up with ****ty spouses because they are emotionally co-dependent with them.


----------



## Tiddytok5 (8 mo ago)

When people generally say "traditional" woman, I think to myself that they mean a stereotypical traditional woman that perhaps June Cleaver was. Stereotypical 1950's housewife.

I guess an independent woman is a stereotypical woman opposite of the stereotypical housewife. 





A nice respectable lady, and a boss woman..


Someone who knows how to act in public.

Preferably one who doesn't drink at all..or has a drink very very seldom.


No one that brings me drama.

Someone that doesn't jump on the trend of "dehumanizing" men.

Independent lady who works outside the home primarily and occasionally in the home.


A good communicator, and listener.

Someone who doesn't blame me and all men for their problems or for life not working out in their favor.


Someone who is about her business, and knows her worth. who doesn't see me as a cash cow.

Who will actually contribute financially, and take me out on dates and pamper me sometimes.


Someone that puts in down in the bedroom, but can do alot..from changing a tire to installing drywall.

A woman with range.


A nice round plump rump would be lovely.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lila said:


> I liked your post but I think it comes with the caveat that "financially independent" women who are not Co-dependent will leave rather than nag. I know plenty of financially independent women who put up with ****ty spouses because they are emotionally co-dependent with them.


Codependent is the antithesis to independent, in my view. I see what you're saying, but I just choke calling codependent people independent. I would say financially they are fine and if they were independent other ways, they could and might leave.

And then I've known mostly women who were independent but not that well off financially who would still leave, and that would describe me.


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

If by traditional you mean the wife stays home and raises the kid while the dad goes to work, then I'll take traditional....all....day...long. I was raised in a traditional household and I wanted my kids to have a mom to come home to after school rather than staying at school to 6 pm like our neighbor kid has to. I wanted my wife there when they got home. I did, however, give my wife the option of doing whatever she wanted to; i'm glad she chose to stay home and raise the boys.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

When I think of a traditional woman, I sure don't think of a woman who is adventurous in the bedroom, so I'm surprised to see most guys think that's what they want considering the prevailing sexual attitude on this forum. Being a traditional woman doesn't equate to doing anything you say sexually at all. If they have traditional old-fashioned ethics, it's likely they are not bent that way. 

There has always been the old saying that men want a cook in the kitchen and a w***e in the bedroom, and I think that may be true for many men. Fortunately, some men now realize how boring an old-fashioned traditional woman can be, more like a mother taking care of them than anything else, which isn't sexy for either of them; but hey, if they're traditional and mild and have blinders on, then the man can do whatever he wants without her kicking up dust, can't he?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DownByTheRiver said:


> When I think of a traditional woman, I sure don't think of a woman who is adventurous in the bedroom, so I'm surprised to see most guys think that's what they want considering the prevailing sexual attitude on this forum. Being a traditional woman doesn't equate to doing anything you say sexually at all. If they have traditional old-fashioned ethics, it's likely they are not bent that way.
> 
> There has always been the old saying that men want a cook in the kitchen and a w***e in the bedroom, and I think that may be true for many men. Fortunately, some men now realize how boring an old-fashioned traditional woman can be, more like a mother taking care of them than anything else, which isn't sexy for either of them; but hey, if they're traditional and mild and have blinders on, then the man can do whatever he wants without her kicking up dust, can't he?


Considering I had two long term exs nag me for sex too I think I missed out on all this traditional loving! 😅 

Maybe I could have been happier 
Oh well, will never know now, but nice to think about


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I picked traditional, but it was a hesitant pick and depends on the criteria. 

My wife has been a SAHM off and on for the past (almost) 14 years, which I wanted. She isn't opposed to working though and is a RN (and dislikes being dependent on a man). I wouldn't want someone who absolutely refused to work just because they were born with a vagina, or someone who wanted to be a SAHW (no kids). But I do think women should stay home with the kids and that sacrifices should be made to make that happen. 

I don't think less of her because she doesn't bring in an income. I appreciate that she stays home and everything that she does, and that she is good at it and that it comes naturally to her. I'm traveling for work every other week right now, and during that time my wife is a single parent to 6 kids - 13, 11, 6, 23 months, 14 months, 3 months. She has had no help while I'm gone and is totally fine. I like and need to be able to trust that she can handle things at home. I know some women (all career-driven) who cannot figure out how to parent 1-2 kids without their husband, live-in nanny, or mother around, even for a short time. I think it's pathetic and I wouldn't want a woman like that.

But if the criteria to be a traditional woman is being a helpless, uneducated wimp, then she isn't one. 

She doesn't freak out if she sees a bug and doesn't call me to fix the smoke detectors. If something breaks, she fixes it. If something needs to be built, she builds it. If she needs to mount blinds, a TV, etc., she does it. If she wants to rearrange furniture, she shoves it across the house, up stairs, etc. If some sort of device/computer stops working, she figures it out. If the grass needs to be cut, she cuts it. If her car needs new wipers, bulbs, has a dead battery, etc., she can take care of it. If she doesn't know how to do something she looks it up, and if she's really stuck, then she gets me to do it or help. 

She doesn't NEED a man around, and I like that. I don't want some helpless little thing. 

She is attracted to me doing the "male things" though. She doesn't lose her **** or get offended if I do something for her or open a door for her. She likes and wants me to do those things and make the decisions. She usually offers me the chance to do something (especially now with so many kids and so little time), but takes care of it herself if I'm not home at the time or if I can't/don't get to it in time. But there is no "I can take care of myself, thank you very much" attitude. I would HATE to be with a woman like that. I would also hate to be with a woman who acts like a baby around a bug or can't problem solve.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

One of my cousins married a woman who absolutely refuses to cut the grass, change a light bulb, open a car door, etc. To the point that at one Christmas dinner my cousin didn't open her car door so she didn't get out. She sat in the freezing cold car for hours until he got back in and went home. She does work and is very career driven, no kids. She dragged the divorce out for 4-5 years, fighting over everything, wanting more money, more of their businesses, etc. So I'm not sure WTF she is, besides a nightmare hitting both ends of the spectrum at once. 

They are now divorced. She had an affair and ran off with that guy to live in a trailer with him. Very romantic love story.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

bobert said:


> To the point that at one Christmas dinner my cousin didn't open her car door so she didn't get out. She sat in the freezing cold car for hours until he got back in and went home.


Wow  hahahahaha


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> One of my cousins married a woman who absolutely refuses to cut the grass, change a light bulb, open a car door, etc. To the point that at one Christmas dinner my cousin didn't open her car door so she didn't get out. She sat in the freezing cold car for hours until he got back in and went home. She does work and is very career driven, no kids. She dragged the divorce out for 4-5 years, fighting over everything, wanting more money, more of their businesses, etc. So I'm not sure WTF she is, besides a nightmare hitting both ends of the spectrum at once.
> 
> They are now divorced. She had an affair and ran off with that guy to live in a trailer with him. Very romantic love story.


Primadonna


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

One of my old boyfriends ended up marrying a woman, like Bobert said, a stay-at-home wife, no kids. 

His first wife had a steady job and made more money than him. He had a low paying job Plus in a band that probably cost him more than he made. 


Then he hastily married that one who just doesn't do anything. I seriously just can't even fathom that. It's not like she was anything resembling the trophy wife. She looked like a pudgy crazy old cow. So they must have really hit it off on some level because they are still married.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm starting to see that would seem there are independent or traditional _*values *_that we admire as men, and some women are just as @bobert mentioned, a "nightmare hitting both ends of the spectrum at once."


----------



## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha I do hate changing the 9V. I can never get the damn thing back on. With one of them it was peeping at 2am and I literally destroyed it. I took the battery out and somehow it was still peeping so I took it to the garage and smashed it with a hammer into little bits. I think it had a backup internally or something, no idea…


Now what a truly independent woman does is go out and buy the kind with the little drop-down door that you just pop the battery in to make it easy. We won't mention the fact that buying new ones was necessary because she broke the old ones trying to get them to shut up....

(In my defence, the chirping drove one of my dogs absolutely snaky and I couldn't handle torturing her.)


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Traditional=bland sex life?

Mrs. C is so traditional she could be a woman plucked from the pages of the old testament and the only limitation she has in the bedroom is anal which I've never been interested in anyway. Oh, she won't swallow either but I get it.

Otherwise, she has been very open for adventure in the bedroom and we still have a very passionate and satisfying sex life 31 years in.

She also has always held the checkbook, paid the bills and managed most everything concerning our household.

She is the interior decorator and organizes where everything goes.

While the kids were still in school, she did all domestic chores inside and sometimes yard work when I or the boys couldn't get to it.

I only recently started cooking (last 8 years or so) and she still cleans everything. 

She has occasionally worked if it didn't interfere with our family and even teamed up with me for four years after the boys moved out.

We honestly aren't independent of each other at all.

We are a male and female, complimentary team.

I'm not sure what traditional might mean for others but we have as close to a biblical marriage as is possible and biblical women were sometimes both land and business owners as well as wives.(Proverbs 31).

Powerful, accomplished, capable and sexy women can still be traditional in this barbarian's view.

I'm actually attracted to capable women.


----------



## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Traditional=bland sex life?
> 
> Mrs. C is so traditional she could be a woman plucked from the pages of the old testament and the only limitation she has in the bedroom is anal which I've never been interested in anyway. Oh, she won't swallow either but I get it.
> 
> ...


Love this!

I have a similar marriage with my husband. He sees how hard I work at home to keep everything functional and beautiful. He has his job and I have mine.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> there are independent or traditional _*values *_that we admire as men,


There are qualities we value in our partners that come from both sides of the spectrum. 

I have always worked and have a successful career as a result. Am also very feminine, take pride in my appearance, and always made efforts to look good to my ex. I also did all of the cleaning, half the cooking (I'm not very good at it but my ex was great), and took on the primary child rearing responsibilities (my ex did actively participate which is why giving him shared custody at the divorce was a no brainer).

I did (and continue to) expect chivalry. I did need my ex to bring home the bacon (it was a matter of attraction for me), and do all of the manly chores (yardwork, home repairs).

I know SAHMs in "traditional" relationships who only raise children. They don't clean, cook, or even take care of themselves that well. They feel their job as caretaker is all that's required.

So what I'm trying to say is that comparisons between "sahm" vs "independent-career woman" are not helpful. We should be asking about the values/qualities we prefer in a partner/spouse.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> I know SAHMs in "traditional" relationships who only raise children. They don't clean, cook, or even take care of themselves that well. They feel their job as caretaker is all that's required.


This isn't a traditional woman, it's a lazy one that doesn't want to work.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Well, there’s this…



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradwife



“submits to male leadership”… lol.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ccpowerslave said:


> Well, there’s this…
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol also this:


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lila said:


> I did (and continue to) expect chivalry. I did need my ex to bring home the bacon (it was a matter of attraction for me), and do all of the manly chores (yardwork, home repair


Hehe you forgot jar opening 😊


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife uses me for jar openings. I recently was trying to get a champagne cork out and it wouldn’t go. I twisted it in half with my bare hands. She looked at it and was like “um…”. So a jar? Pish posh…

However… Mrs recently bought one of those rubber grippy things and now sometimes she can open her own jars. Technology is the equalizer.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Oh yeah my wife was also happy for me to do rat exclusions and minor carpentry until I fell off a ladder.
> 
> I bought a mamba bag for boxing practice in the yard last week and she said NO. She said I couldn’t use it until the doctor cleared me. She was on a phone call for work and I said, “I’m going to go outside and setup that bag.” She didn’t say no (was on the call). When she finished the call I was in the middle of round three. She came outside and said, “YOU’RE BAD!”
> 
> Traditional gender roles affirmed. Man does something stupid and gets yelled at.


Hmm....this sounds real familiar.....


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife uses me for jar openings. I recently was trying to get a champagne cork out and it wouldn’t go. I twisted it in half with my bare hands. She looked at it and was like “um…”. So a jar? Pish posh…
> 
> However… Mrs recently bought one of those rubber grippy things and now sometimes she can open her own jars. Technology is the equalizer.


The memes are hilarious 😅


----------



## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

On a serious note, my view of a traditional wife is from culture (Donna Reed, Mrs. Cleaver) and from relatives. My grandmother was completely lost when my grandfather died. She did not know how to drive, never balanced a checkbook, never paid a bill, etc. She cooked, cleaned, raised kids and grandkids, treated Granddad like a king, etc.

From my teen years, a woman who was competent, adventurous, had a mind of her own and stood up for herself was always attractive. When I was deployed, I knew my wife could run things without me present. I tease her about being bossy, but she knows I love her how she is. She knows where the line is with me and I do lead on most things.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Hehe you forgot jar opening 😊
> 
> View attachment 93941
> 
> ...


Pfft. That's one thing I don't need a man for. 

Here's a secret.... Just run hot water over the lid and seam. It'll twist right off.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lila said:


> Pfft. That's one thing I don't need a man for.
> 
> Here's a secret.... Just run hot water over the lid and seam. It'll twist right off.


Shhhh 🤫

Keep our secrets we'll keep yours 😋


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Lila said:


> Pfft. That's one thing I don't need a man for.
> 
> Here's a secret.... Just run hot water over the lid and seam. It'll twist right off.


My oil painting teacher when I was a kid would open my linseed oil jar. She was an old lady. She’d tap the lid on the edge of a table. I still do this with stubborn ones.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Lila said:


> Pfft. That's one thing I don't need a man for.
> 
> Here's a secret.... Just run hot water over the lid and seam. It'll twist right off.


Slip the end of a screwdriver or a butterknife under the edge of the lid and pry it. Break the vacuum seal and it will open easily.


----------



## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife uses me for jar openings. I recently was trying to get a champagne cork out and it wouldn’t go. I twisted it in half with my bare hands. She looked at it and was like “um…”. So a jar? Pish posh…
> 
> However… Mrs recently bought one of those rubber grippy things and now sometimes she can open her own jars. Technology is the equalizer.


My mum bought me one of those rubber grippy things.

Shhhh... Mrs.CC... it also helps to use a bottle opener under the edge of the lid to break the seal first.


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> Slip the end of a screwdriver or a butterknife under the edge of the lid and pry it. Break the vacuum seal and it will open easily.


Or if it has already pissed you off, just stab that Fing lid because you know you want to.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

This is by far, the most humorous thread jack in history


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Thanks for all the tips on how to open jar lids! I will try them out and hopefully hubby won't have to open them for me anymore! Now watch my husband come on TAM and post "I think another man is opening jar lids for my wife!!!" LOL!

Okay, bad joke! LOL


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Poll results are unmistakable, I wonder if it would be safe to conclude that traditional women are still quite valued to this day?

My preferences won't change though, independence is priority.






I just can't respect a woman who isn't on the same level. I just can't. Respect has always been something that is never a choice for me. I can give people the 'respect' one is due as a fellow human being but that is it. You either command real respect from me, or you won't have it. I don't have to like someone to respect them either, I can utterly despise them.

Yet a woman who is "the rock for the man, nurturing and not comparing him to other men etc." I can see the appeal, and it would be nice to have both, but supporting a spouse financially is like having another child. I'm sure women can relate to that when they have husbands who don't work. You lose the same respect for them as an equal partner no?

But judging from the results, most folks are married and I'm back to square one. It's obvious who has their priorities straight and it isn't me. 😑


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> I'm thinking what is resonating in my thoughts right now is about respect when mentioned on the other thread. A traditional woman respects her husband as principle. An independent woman, demands that respect be earned.
> 
> Sometimes to earn that respect you will have to put the foot down. My mistake was tolerating a lot of crap, but what else can we do as men but weather their bullsh-t out of love?


No. A traditional woman gives respect where respect is due. My behavior is respectful in and of itself. Putting your foot down(RP) does not earn respect, it is demanding the disrespect cease. 

Modern women tend to not give a crap about respectful behavior, else they would not be continually chasing the guys that treat them like crap or keep cheating on them. 
They get their validation from outside, from others, from their careers. Etc. 

Traditional wives get it from within. They pride themselves on taking care of their families and the home. My wife wanted nothing more than to be a mom and housewife. She started working at 14 and basically raised her younger brothers, she was more mom that their mother was. She has lived alone, done the books for a multi-million dollar corp. and is very capable. Our home is her domain, she is Queen of her domain, she makes this house a home, so what she wants in house is typically abided by. 
I am King of our kingdom. I have final say in it all, I can count on one hand when I said No. We/you are not doing that.

The feminist agenda brainwashing convinces them that all men are not respectable, hence the disrespect that comes from these "modern independent women" even though a guy is acting in a respectable manner. 

The tolerating the BS behavior and being a simp are blue pill behaviors.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

so_sweet said:


> Thanks for all the tips on how to open jar lids! I will try them out and hopefully hubby won't have to open them for me anymore! Now watch my husband come on TAM and post "I think another man is opening jar lids for my wife!!!" LOL!
> 
> Okay, bad joke! LOL


Have you thought, we like to do things for our wives they can't, especially if it requires physical force. It is like these little opportunities for us to feel like the hero who saved the damsel in distress. It also says to us, we are needed.

I am 6'05" my wife 5'03" she wants me to have her get things from under cabinets, likewise I help her get things that are out of reach for her


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm having trouble understanding what is meant by independent or traditional.
> 
> Has this been defined?


Exactly...many have a skewed idea of traditional wife.....they are not one that is helpless and has to go to hubby to wipe their backside. 

A traditional wife is happy and gets satisfaction out of taking care of her family and household. If able, she would choose caring for her children over a career/daycare. The hubby and kids are priority over a job, start work when kids are in school and be there to pick them up as they are more important than career status.

They are likewise not going to be clubbing on GNO while family is home. Those wives typically ran the home, dad enforces kids mind and respect their mom. The traditional wives have figured out that if they are submissive to their spouses, the hubby usually gives them the power in the home and just retains veto power.

A traditional marriage would be like a captain/first officer relationship.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Hybrid


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> I wont say its the case for anyone participating in the thread, but a lot of guys prefer "traditional" women, because they are insecure... A lot of guys see independent women as not really needing them...So they decide to pick women who may be more needy, more sheltered, so they don't get any idea what life may be like without them...
> 
> I even knew a guy that didn't like his wife to work for fear she would fall for someone else at the job...lol...


Yet these same men complain later in life if/when the marriage sucks and they want out that they can't leave because they would lose half of "their" assets and don't want to pay spousal support.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

so_sweet said:


> Thanks for all the tips on how to open jar lids! I will try them out and hopefully hubby won't have to open them for me anymore! Now watch my husband come on TAM and post "I think another man is opening jar lids for my wife!!!" LOL!
> 
> Okay, bad joke! LOL


That was a great joke! I'm certainly stealing it!🤣


----------



## heather42 (1 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Yet these same men complain later in life if/when the marriage sucks and they want out that they can't leave because they would lose half of "their" assets and don't want to pay spousal support.


Yes. This happens all the time. My mom was a wonderful traditional wife and dad decided to cheat on her then divorce. He was really angry about paying alimony and child support.

Now he lives alone and will die unnoticed.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Yet these same men complain later in life if/when the marriage sucks and they want out that they can't leave because they would lose half of "their" assets and don't want to pay spousal support.





heather42 said:


> Yes. This happens all the time. My mom was a wonderful traditional wife and dad decided to cheat on her then divorce. He was really angry about paying alimony and child support.
> 
> Now he lives alone and will die unnoticed.



OK...but lets not make it out to be that the women don't do their part...

I can think of many people I know where the woman flat out will REFUSE to work, or will do some Mickey Mouse crap, that pays no money and has no stress, even after kids are old enough where she could easily get a legitimate job and contribute....You can't force someone to go to work, and a lot of these women think that a ring and a rug rat entitles them to a lifetime of support and lifestyle(often a luxury lifestyle) from some donkey of a man...under the guise of being a "traditional" wife...

And come time for divorce, these guys will get no consideration and no good will.. they will absolutely take these guys and clean them out, despite doing practically nothing to contribute to the wealth and assets of the family, if she feels like she's had enough of him, or he just wants out of the deal...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's just the mentality for me, like, for example, as much as some may hate me for having cradle robbed (I suffered for it if it makes some of you guys feel better), my ex was just 18 when I met her and of course there's simply no way she can contribute on par with a man with an established career in his early 30s. However, I still saw her as an equal - how? Because she did not rest on her laurels, she was hardworking and not only studied full time but worked full time as well. When she couldn't work, she's looking for work. She had no debt and never ever needed my money.

She supported her family, friends, and paid for everything herself. In our first year I was stupid and in love so I wanted to spoil her, spending thousands on her, but do you know what she did? She even saved up and matched me. Main reason I stopped with the big gifts - and apparently loving her less , because she simply could not afford to keep spending like that and there was no way I could stop her spending on me if I kept spending on her - being responsible for one's finances is also keeping one's own safety net. If I died or we broke up - which we did, she should have investments in her own future.

Anyway, that's just the calibre of what I expect. If we had a child, sure, I'm happy to carry that 'extra bag of shopping', that's what we men are supposed to do. However, I already know the calibre of who she is. I guess I just prefer women like her compared to my last fbuddy who had debt and although she never directly asked for money, it was expected for me to pay for everything when we went out. She has made her own contributions yes, I need to be fair, but it's just nothing like I experienced with last ex.

I'm not saying my last fbuddy was in anyway a traditional woman lol (no way!) Just saying that the qualities I enjoy about an independent woman, I just hold it in higher priority.


----------



## Jay Bee (Jul 5, 2018)

A bit of both. I wouldn't want a wife that's a stay at home mom. I think these days it's too big of a risk for a man. 50% of marriages end in divorce and 75% are initiated by women. If your marriage ends in divorce you will probably only be seeing your kids every other weekend and will have to pay a lot in child support and alimony. I don't believe most modern women would be happy doing that anyway. With phones, social media, lack of loyalty, it's too easy to cheat if they get bored when they're home all day. It's important to me that the woman I'm with has a good job and makes decent money, I just don't want a hardcore feminist.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jay Bee said:


> I just don't want a hardcore feminist.







😅


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Can someone do a poll on jar lids please? 😁


----------

