# Best approach for starting to forget



## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

My W had an EA that she is acknowledging as a mistake and is giving 100% toward working on our marriage. She has dropped all contact with this person by sending a couple emails ending their contact and has focused on our relationship. We have been doing very well lately.

My obsession has been her ability to just leave this EA in the dust. I know she loves me and wants to be with me, but I also know that for her to do what she did had to have resulted from some very deep emotions for the other person. For her to deceive me and jeopardize our family to be with this other person, this was not just a random silly feeling. I don't think this is just the idea of getting some attention.

Her approach to the situation has been to send the emails mentioned above telling him she couldn't speak with him again, and then trying to forget her feelings she once had. For me, I am still hurting from the thought of what has happened and I fear that the emotions will pop up again.

My thinking is that, if she truly did have feeling so deep that she thought this may be the person she could spend her life with, then just trying to forget it with a couple emails is not going to extinguish that flame. I feel that this needs to be addressed head on. She needs to evaluate the situation as it stands and determine if this person was possibly her "soul mate". I'm not naive enough to think that there couldn't be someone in the world that may be better for my wife than I am. If this is such a person, I want to know now and get this over with rather than finding out 5 years from now that she gave it a try, but you know what, I just can't get over him and she leaves me for this person. I feel like I want her to go ahead and give this a try and determine for herself what she really wants. Is this crazy?

Another thought I am having that makes me feel like a terrible person is that I have told her that I can't be married to someone who has "special feelings" for another person. Even if she does love me and we are having a great time together, I just can't live with someone that is not 100% dedicated to me? I wouldn't expect my wife to want to be with me if I had another woman that I had feelings for either.

I'd appreciate any feedback from this group , as I am starting to feel a bit down on the situation because when i talk about this with my wife, she just ends up getting hurt by having to live through the EA again. She justs wants to sweep it under the rug.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm not sure if she can just get rid of these feelings right away - but sending the e-mails sounds like a good start.

She probably did have some strong feelings - but it seems her feelings for YOU must be stronger, since she chose to stay.

Give it some time. Remember she chose you and that she is a human being, open to making mistakes. Good luck.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Noona~

I am going to be a little bit blunt about this speaking to you in loving respect. You are the one with the problem here, not your wife. She is doing the right things to recover from the affair, and you are obsessing. Furthermore, more than once you've said something to the effect that if this guy was her "soulmate" you want to get it over with now. I believe you are looking for a way to end the marriage and blame her. Are you looking for a way out? 

If you want a divorce I suggest you continue as you are now, and resentment will eventually grow to the point that she'll leave. That way you can "blame her" for leaving the marriage and take no personal responsibility. 

On the other hand, if you want to save this marriage, as I think you do, then I would strongly recommend that you go to personal counseling right away. This is not a "marriage" issue. Please tell the counselor your wife has done all the right things to recover from the affair: maintained no contact, allowed feelings to die, and worked hard to show you she's in it 100%...but that your self-esteem and self-worth is so low that you are blaming her for your feelings of inadequacy. You want reassurance and she has given it to you, yet you refuse to accept it...and that my friend is something YOU need to work on, not her. She's putting in her work--now it's time for you to work on yourself and your lack of self-worth because this is not something that your spouse can give you. 

Would you like a referral to a counselor in your area who can help you?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Of course you are confused and wondering if its really over. That's normal. You realize that you are having a problem with it and that she is doing what she can to work on the marriage, so now you just have to find out whats going to make you see how she feels about you. 

Has she offered to write you a letter about how she feels about you and your marriage together? Maybe you could try writing to each other about it, that could draw you closer together.

Just throwing it out here, maybe once the EA was discovered, her head came out of the fog and she realized that reality wasn't anywhere to be seen. Then she knew what she really wanted, you!!


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

noona said:


> She justs wants to sweep it under the rug.


Or put it behind you where it belongs! In the past..... 
Would be another way to put it.



Affaircare said:


> Noona~
> 
> I am going to be a little bit blunt about this speaking to you in loving respect. You are the one with the problem here, not your wife. She is doing the right things to recover from the affair, and you are obsessing. Furthermore, more than once you've said something to the effect that if this guy was her "soulmate" you want to get it over with now. I believe you are looking for a way to end the marriage and blame her. Are you looking for a way out?
> 
> ...


1000% good feedback.


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## Bequia2010 (Jan 1, 2010)

Your wife has a history with you. You mention your family, so I assume you have children. Your wife realized what she was doing to you and your children and made a choice. She did not take the affair to a physical affair. She may have had strong feelings for the other man, but those feelings do not trump the family and the history. Also it does not trump the idea of a future with the other man, if she had destroyed the H she loves and the children whose lives would be forever changed. 

You need to count your blessings that she chose not to tear your family apart. She chose to stay and work on your marriage. Your responsibility to her is to do some self examination and figure out what was missing in the marriage that she turned to someone else for emotional support. Why couldn't she turn to you? It is often hard for us to own up to our own faults, and how we contributed to such a desperate move on her part, but you must. If your marriage is to survive you have to own the part you played in this situation, and convince her you realize what you did or did not do, and ask her forgiveness for that. Once you realize the part you played, it'll be easier for you to forgive her and move on. 

If you haven't watched "Bridges of Madison County" you should. Your post reminds me a lot of that movie. Good Luck


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Noona,
You have to realize your wife did not take it to a physical level, so he fulfilled a need but it wasn't to replace you. Remember she chose you. 

I disagree that this is "your problem, not hers" that's absolutely wrong. You honored your vows, she did not. When you let someone in to the relationship, you harm the marriage. You trusted her not to do that. She betrayed that trust and needs to earn it back. 

It sounds like you do want this to work out....and believe me I have been there. I caught my H in an EA but didn't address it as such. He doesn't believe EAs exist but he told me he would cut all contact but he didn't and in fact did it in front of me until I found proof of the PA. It went on for a long time and there was some severe emotional abuse involved...believe it or not we are putting it back together and doing ok. 

Do I believe he would ever do it again? No I think I've come to that conclusion. Why am I telling you this? Because there is hope but it will take time. Sweeping it under the rug is not fair to you. I suggest marriage counseling, there was an issue to begin with a need that she had so go back to that and fix that so you can have a strong marriage. Its so incredibly hard but let go of the resentment, I suggest taking up a physical activity. I had a lot of resentment but this has helped (believe me ... I went from doing nothing to playing volleyball twice a week and I just finished a 1/2 marathon..thinking of taking kick boxing now on Wed...)

Open communication, without accusing or being angry will help you both. 

Good luck!


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Noona~
> 
> I am going to be a little bit blunt about this speaking to you in loving respect. You are the one with the problem here, not your wife. She is doing the right things to recover from the affair, and you are obsessing. Furthermore, more than once you've said something to the effect that if this guy was her "soulmate" you want to get it over with now. I believe you are looking for a way to end the marriage and blame her. Are you looking for a way out?
> 
> ...


I think you're right! I have my own issues to deal with that are not being caused by my wife. She is doing the best she can and these issue I am now facing are my own to get through. I now know that I cannot keep going to her to help me solve them because it contradicts what she is trying to accomplish.

Self confidence is the key. I struggle with going from the only person in my wife's life to there being another person in the picture. This was wrong for her to do this, but then again, what's done is done. I need to decide if I can get over the hurt of her betraying me and the fact that she even has to work on getting over someone else. This does stem from inadequacies about how I think my wife now feels about me. I used to be the only person in her life and that's what I signed up for when we married. That's not the case anymore. However, I do love her more than anything and do not want to let her go. I guess I have some things to work through on my own to get over these thoughts.

Thanks again for all the advice, it really helps me think outside of my normal thought patterns (as twisted as they may be sometimes). You guys keep me grounded!


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## Monday25 (Jan 27, 2010)

wow, noona, your situation sounds incredibly familiar. just getting thru my H's EA myself and having the same trouble you are. Affaircare gave some great advice and I have been looking in the proverbial mirror lately...wondering if it's me that really wants out. 

I used to be the only person in HIS life and that's what I signed up for when we married.... it really hurts to think there's someone else that could make him happy...but it's INSANE to think that there isn't.


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

I guess this is a struggle between wanting to be with my wife for the rest of my life and getting over my hurt feelings about her wanting someone else.

My heart tells me that she is more important and I should just get over it. My brain is trying to decide if I can forgive what she has done and get over the fact that there was someone else in her life. It sounds like an easy decision on paper, but the hurt inside makes it difficult.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Noona I just wanted to say how very much I respect you. Many people would argue and point fingers rather than look at themselves, and I'm very proud of you. 

I want you to know I do personally know exactly what you're going through. To be completely blunt and personal, I had a marriage that ended because my ex would not end his affair and deal with his issues, and oddly enough what hurt me THE WORST was not losing my husband (although that hurt!) but rather losing the illusion of what I thought I had. I *thought* I had a happy, healthy family...a devoted and loving spouse...and one of those marriages that was special and could not be lured into an affair. Looking point blank at the man who was my (ex) husband, he had a lot of very serious issues and when I was honest about them, letting that man go was painful but I could do that. But letting go of the ILLUSION! OH that I struggled with like Jacob wrestling with the angel! 

One thing that I sincerely do think would help you a ton would be boosting your self-worth. If nothing else, you'll always know that you are lovable and worthy of respect and loving treatment if you love yourself.


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## Monday25 (Jan 27, 2010)

noona said:


> I guess this is a struggle between wanting to be with my wife for the rest of my life and getting over my hurt feelings about her wanting someone else.
> 
> My heart tells me that she is more important and I should just get over it. My brain is trying to decide if I can forgive what she has done and get over the fact that there was someone else in her life. It sounds like an easy decision on paper, but the hurt inside makes it difficult.


something my husband keeps telling me...and i am starting to believe...is that if he truly _wanted the OW, he would be with her and not with me. so, maybe they didnt really want someone else...._


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

Monday25 said:


> something my husband keeps telling me...and i am starting to believe...is that if he truly _wanted the OW, he would be with her and not with me. so, maybe they didnt really want someone else...._


_

I'm starting to come around to that idea too. However, there is some trust that I need to re-build before I totally buy into that. right now, I question if this is what she really wants (me, not him) or if she is trying to force this because it is the "right" thing to do. She is a very kind person and has always been on the straight and narrow. Now that she has realizes what she has done and how much she has hurt me and her family, I can only assume that she is trying to force herself back into being the perfect wife. Even if this isn't what she truly feels inside, she is trying to force it in order to not be a "bad" person.

I hope I'm wrong. She tells me she is doing this for the right reasons, and I believe her for the most part. But I also think she would hide the truth in order to save the marriage and spare my feelings. Time will tell I guess. At this point, I love her enough to give her the chance to gain back the trust and determine if we can make it work.... Chin up, right?_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

noona said:


> ...right now, I question if this is what she really wants (me, not him) or if she is trying to force this because it is the "right" thing to do. ... I can only assume that she is trying to force herself back into being the perfect wife. Even if this isn't what she truly feels inside, she is trying to force it in order to not be a "bad" person.


As always, permission to speak freely? At the very, very first moment of ending it with the other man, I have to admit that my primary motivation was that I knew it was wrong and not because of great, passionate love for my husband. I would say for about the first two or three days I resisted contact "because it was the right thing to do" and during those two or three days I missed the way I felt but was actively letting those feelings die. You see, Noona, even though I didn't feel giddy passion for my husband, I knew enough to know that what is right is the right thing to do no matter how I FELT. Feelings (emotions) are not a good foundation on which to build things because they are so transient and because so many different things can affect them (including hormones, weather, etc!). Thus, at that moment my head knew it was right and my heart felt sad....but I acted on my head!

After those first few days, I don't think I cried once that initial part was over. I think for the next...oh maybe a month...I became more and more the person I really am and less and less "Disloyal Dizzy." :lol: Throughout the whole thing, I thought of my Dear Hubby as someone I really liked and was very fond of, and after the first couple days was an opportunity to give him a chance to let the love grow and return. But, in order to do that, I had to focus on him and what he was doing now, not constantly look to the past and be reminded of the other man. And he also had to make the effort to stop doing those Love Extinguisher things that he slipped into and do some Love Kindler things that reminded me of why I loved him in the first place. 

So from day 4 or so onward it was like love gradually grew and grew more and more. I'd say about a week after I appreciated that he hung in there for me and "us," by two weeks, I felt affection for him, and by one month I actually loved the man for being the honorable, loving person he is!  (Lucky me, huh?) Noona, at first your wife's motivation may have been "because it's the right thing to do" but actually that not a bad motivation! It is a good foundation to build on because what is "right" and "wrong" doesn't change like emotions/feelings do! And Noona, love is a choice. She can (and it sounds like she does) choose to love you.


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## stupidme (Nov 15, 2009)

noona said:


> My W had an EA that she is acknowledging as a mistake and is giving 100% toward working on our marriage. She has dropped all contact with this person by sending a couple emails ending their contact and has focused on our relationship. We have been doing very well lately.
> 
> My obsession has been her ability to just leave this EA in the dust. I know she loves me and wants to be with me, but I also know that for her to do what she did had to have resulted from some very deep emotions for the other person. For her to deceive me and jeopardize our family to be with this other person, this was not just a random silly feeling. I don't think this is just the idea of getting some attention.
> 
> ...



Noona, I was in the exact emotional situation as you 3.5 months ago, especially when he maintained that he loved both of us after he broke off the A (E&P). Being married for over 20 years, I was yo-yo-ing back and forth for 2 months or so, regarding taking him back and pushing him to go to her. He said they were alike, she was the best friend he never had, he confided everything to her, so I told him she could be his soulmate, go to her. Yet he choose to stay, begged to stay, on his best behavior at all times. I told him numerous times to go to her since I didn't want him going back to her a year, 2 years, or 5 years later. Now, I believe he stayed at that time because it was the RIGHT thing to do, because of our kids, not because he loved me.

I was very insecure after the discovery, all that I had believed came crumbling down. No matter how hard he tried to work on our marriage, I could not accept his love for her. Perhaps I'm a simple person but I felt exactly like you, I had to have his love 100% and nothing less. I also felt that he had swept his feelings for her under the rug as well.

About 1.5-2 months after the discovery, I felt that I would give our marriage another month or so, to see if his love for her has diminished; otherwise I would leave the marriage. I think I did tell him so as well. Fortunately for me, soon after, he came out of his fog and realized his love for her was all an illusion that she had created for him. He finally saw her as who she was, a person with no morals, no values, no conscience; an expert user of men that had once bragged to him that she could con any men out his money. And funnily in an ironic sad way, my H handed over his business to her for a penny because he felt guilty for ending the A; he lost over 100K and 1.5 year of hard work putting into that business.

So in a way, my insecurity somewhat ended when he said numerous times that he realized he loved me and wanted to be with me for the rest of our lives. That he realized our kids would not be needing us as they grow older, that his main priority used to be our kids but now, his main priority is me. And he apologized numerous times regarding his A and how he wished he could turn back time. That he had taken me and our kids for granted and now constantly telling me how much he enjoys spending time with us, with me.

I think for you, you need to feel and hear that your wife is truly over that OM. You will always question is she better off with the OM and will constantly be afraid that some day, she will reconnect with that man and will leave you, hence, the insecurity. That it's better you know now so you don't waste any more of your time/life as oppose to a few years down the road. Is this low self-esteem? My counselor thought so but in my mind, I don't think it had anything to do with my self-esteem, it's just my personal belief.

I had given my all to my H and I had expected the same in return. So when the discovery of the A, I was hurt by the betrayal beyond imagination. My H had always said I'm such a simple person, have been shielded by the real world, always trusting, always believe everyone is good unless proven otherwise. But that is the way I am, and I cannot help it, all or nothing.

I had given him my loyalty all these years but after what happened, I told him I now question my loyalty to him. I know many here manage to get past the forgiveness part but for me, I'm still working on it. Yes, it's so easy to put it on paper, to forgive and I am still having a hard time trying to forgive, to get past the A. I still have my good days and my bad days and am trying to deal with it.


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

As we talk through this more and more each week, I am starting to understand that she is not being truthful about her feelings for him. She has tried to convince herself and me that she maybe made a mistake and just got caught up in the moment. She tries to convince herself that I am the one and that her feelings for the other person were false. 

I feel we need to get this in the open and be honest with ourselves. If she truly loved this person, we both need to understand that. We need to know what we're dealing with in order to make strides to forget the past and work on what we have together.

I can't live with the fact that we may be trying to get past this by just brushing it under the rug, just to have a realization that the feelings for the OM were real and she can't get over him. I don't want to feel like we tried in vane by ignoring the true root of the problem and just treating the symptoms. Ahhhhhhhhh.....I thought we were past this!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

noona said:


> As we talk through this more and more each week, I am starting to understand that she is not being truthful about her feelings for him. She has tried to convince herself and me that she maybe made a mistake and just got caught up in the moment. She tries to convince herself that I am the one and that her feelings for the other person were false.


She isn't trying to 'convince' herself that you are the one - she is CHOOSING you. I see posts where you say she WAS truthful about her feelings for him. She told you she loved him, and that this was wrong. She says she loves you. (That is right.)



> I feel we need to get this in the open and be honest with ourselves. If she truly loved this person, we both need to understand that. We need to know what we're dealing with in order to make strides to forget the past and work on what we have together.


Seems to me you could at least try to understand what you mean by love. If you mean the emotion - the sensation of 'love', then - she _may _have felt it for that other guy once upon a time. This in NO WAY negates the idea that she might also feel it for you now - or that she did BEFORE she met that other man.

You seem to be implying the absolutely ridiculous notion that if she felt this 'love' for that other guy, that she couldn't somehow feel that 'love' for you now. (Note to self: keep up treating her this way, and she WILL no longer feel that for you.) This is irrational, illogical - and silly for at least two reasons:

1) If she felt love for you BEFORE she met this guy - then, _by virtue of your own strange logic_, there could be absolutely no way she could feel love for him - since she'd _already felt it for you!_

2) You seem to be of the impression that an emotion can only be experienced once (again - see #1 above for a demonstration of how your own logic negates itself)! In essence, what you are saying is that if you experienced [insert emotion here] toward someone once in your life - you can no longer experience it again!

The silliness of this notion is causing a rift in your marriage that will only get bigger over time. Try to understand: love in a marriage is more than simply experiencing an emotion. It must be more. _Much more._ It is the CHOICE you make of _picking_ YOUR SPOUSE over _anyone_ else. The emotion of love is a RESULT that happens because of the choice you make - it is NOT the sole reason for marriage, nor is it the CAUSE of marriage.

Your wife is doing that. Are you? Seems to me you are picking YOURSELF over her. Why stay married if your commitment is mainly to yourself? 



> I can't live with the fact that we may be trying to get past this by just brushing it under the rug, just to have a realization that the feelings for the OM were real and she can't get over him. I don't want to feel like we tried in vane by ignoring the true root of the problem and just treating the symptoms. Ahhhhhhhhh.....I thought we were past this!


_You_ darn well better get past this. No one is brushing this under the carpet - it is lying out there in the open. Your wife has owned up, and is doing what is necessary to heal the marriage. You, on the other hand, are introducing elements of virtual insanity into the mix. The only reason I can think of for such action is the destruction of your marriage. 

It may be that your wife messed up before - but who is doing it now? And what will be the end result? The root problem right now is within you - the fact that you are establishing alien definitions and impossible conundrums and then getting upset because they can't be fixed...


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> She isn't trying to 'convince' herself that you are the one - she is CHOOSING you. I see posts where you say she WAS truthful about her feelings for him. She told you she loved him, and that this was wrong. She says she loves you. (That is right.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Although I agree with you notion that I have some things I need to clear up within myself and this is not all about her, or her A. I may have not made it clear what I want the outcome to be.

I am not question if she loves me, what I am doing is trying to ensure that she chose me for the right reasons and I am truly what's best for you. This is not a selfish plea, this is a very selfless act. I want to make sure she is doing what's best for her. I am her best friend and even if we can't work out our own issues, I want to make sure she is happy. So, I need to make sure she is making this decision to be with me for the right reasons. Not because she feels guilty about hurting me or because it would be hard for the kids. I need to make sure that I am what she truly wants long terms.

I care about her enough to let her go if that is what will make her the happiest. As much as I want to be with her, I don't want her to be in a relationship if it is a sacrifice. I want her to be as happy as possible and I care for her enough, and understand the hurt the issues that I have caused in the past, to let her make this decision FOR HER (not based on what she thinks is the right thing to do.

So, I appreciate the candid feedback, but I think you took my last post to be questioning if she can love me again. I know she loves me and always will love me. I just want to make sure she is doing the right thing for herself.....


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> So, I appreciate the candid feedback, but I think you took my last post to be questioning if she can love me again. I know she loves me and always will love me. I just want to make sure she is doing the right thing for herself.....


I'll stay a bit candid here. I do understand what you are saying, but I wish to point out something:

When you make a commitment in marriage, you utter certain vows (or, at least, you agree to them verbally) in front of a group of witnesses. You sign the contract. That means the contract is binding, until certain conditions are met (usually, the death of one or both partners).

_That's the marriage._ That's what you honor when you stay faithful. When you state that you love someone, you are telling that person that you intend to abide by that contract.

You took this vow, and intend to stick to it, right? Didn't your wife also take the same vow? She messed up - but it looks like she learned a valuable lesson - and she seems to be able to see what she needs to do: honor that commitment. 

You state that you want what's best for her.

Is it not the MOST honorable, MOST respectful. MOST loving, MOST acceptable, BEST thing a person can do - to keep their word? To never break a promise? To be relied upon to do what they say they will do? 

Don't you want that for her? Why do you want her to break her word, to be unreliable - and claim THAT'S what is best for her?

I still think this reduces itself back to the notion that you place the emotional sensation above the action. Why is it that you think you cannot work toward being all the things your wife wants? 

May I point out that there is no perfection on the planet. You will NEVER find the perfect person. You will find people with good points and bad points. You seem to be saying that you do not feel that you are perfect for your wife. No one on the planet is.

But YOU made the commitment to her. And SHE made the commitment to you. Together you can work toward improving your relationship. Everyone makes 'sacrifices' in a relationship (that is, they give up things they want for the one they commit to). If you aren't willing to give up some things you want for your relationship - then you should not be married. The same goes for your wife. 

For example: the very commitment that you made to your spouse means that you 'give up' (forsake) all others - a sacrifice right off the start! 

If you keep trying to force her to admit you have faults, and that you aren't the perfect partner for her - and that she needs to admit there is someone better somewhere else - you will drive her away.

You wrote:



> I am not question if she loves me, what I am doing is trying to ensure that she chose me for the right reasons and I am truly what's best for you. This is not a selfish plea, this is a very selfless act.


I question the validity of that statement. Is it not more of a subtle way of saying that you are unwilling to take steps you may need to to fill her emotional needs - that perhaps she might find someone else more willing to do that? I think it is a very 'selfish' act indeed!



> So, I need to make sure she is making this decision to be with me for the right reasons. Not because she feels guilty about hurting me or because it would be hard for the kids. I need to make sure that I am what she truly wants long terms.


It seems to me that she IS doing it for the right reasons: she took the vow, she intends to live by it. It may be that she did at first feel guilty, or that she did not want to harm the kids - all fine choices. But it seems to me that you are forcing her to limit herself to those choices by not allowing her love to grow for you - by not doing the things you need to to make your marriage stronger! 

She fell in love with you once, did she not? Did she not think you were the perfect man then? What things were you doing then that you don't any more? Why not be that guy again?

Is that not the answer to your dilemma? You want to make sure she has committed to the right guy - well - that's up to you, not her! Isn't that the 'long term' goal?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Noona, I thought maybe we were past this, and speaking just as someone here on the forum who knows the situation a little bit, it's frustrating to hear that you are still stuck on this. Seriously this is an issue you have, and you are going to need to take steps to get beyond it or you're going to be adding Love Extinguishers to the marriage if you're not already. I don't know your wife or speak to her directly--and by the way if she'd be willing, I would LOVE to--but from what I see she's trying to build the fire of love for you, and you keep dumping buckets of water on her! 

So much of what you wrote in this post makes no sense. Let me walk through it with you and explain why. 


noona said:


> Although I agree with you notion that I have some things I need to clear up within myself and this is not all about her, or her A. I may have not made it clear what I want the outcome to be.


After reading this thread and this post, I can only guess that the outcome you want is for her to say, "You know what? If I were completely selfish I'd leave you and be girlishly, giggly, squirrelly in love with the OM and leave you and the kids behind without a thought." :scratchhead: But since she wants to be honorable, not be self-centered, learn to love you and be happy where she is, not abandon her commitments and responsibilities, and honor her covenant with you...you are unhappy and once again trying to force her into saying something she doesn't want to say and doesn't mean. 

Sincerely I do NOT get this. The only possible option I see is that you're trying to somehow convince her to leave. :scratchhead:



> I am not question if she loves me, what I am doing is trying to ensure that she chose me for the right reasons and I am truly what's best for you. This is not a selfish plea, this is a very selfless act. I want to make sure she is doing what's best for her.


Okay this makes no sense either. Let me give you an example. I am an INFP by nature (Introverted, iNtuitive, Feeler, Perceiver) and I may think it is "best" for me to be with another INFP because someone just like me would "get me." By the same token I would never learn or grown as a person, or learn to understand Extroverts, or learn to base decisions on thoughts and not feelings. I may think it's "best" for me to be with someone rich so I never have to work again, but then again I would never have the joy of self-satisfaction from a job well-done or the pleasure of knowing I worked hard for this or that reward. 

So the right reasons for staying with a marriage are not "because it makes it easier for me" or "because I feel all goosey". I hope that's not why YOU stay in your marriage! It's best for her to do the right thing, build a happy home, work with you for a happy marriage, and offer her children a stable family. And isn't that why she's staying? :scratchhead:



> I am her best friend and even if we can't work out our own issues, I want to make sure she is happy. So, I need to make sure she is making this decision to be with me for the right reasons. Not because she feels guilty about hurting me or because it would be hard for the kids. I need to make sure that I am what she truly wants long terms.


Again this is not making sense, Noona. I see her actually making the effort to work out the issues in the marriage and making the effort to recover and reconnect. She's making the right decisions for the right reasons and based on what you've said addressing the issues of the marriage. I do not know one way or the other if she's addressing her personal issues or personal weaknesses. I see that we identified that at least one of your issues was a great lack of self-worth, and I see that your method of addressing this is to try to force her to say she doesn't love you or choose you. I don't see that you've gone to personal counseling or coaching about this, bought any self-help books, or worked on yourself at all. 

Furthermore, as a marriage expert, I can tell you that marriages go through phases and cycles just like any relationship. Sometimes you're close and intimate. Sometimes not so much. Sometimes you want to be with the person. Sometimes not so much. Shoot you go through this ebb and flow with friends/best buddies--why would you think you would not go through this with your spouse? Further, part of the commitment of marriage is to say "I solemnly covenant to stay with you even at the times when I don't 'feel like it.' " Our vows usually come right out and actually ADDRESS THIS! 

So we are back where we started. She's staying. She's doing it for the right reasons. She's committing to you. And in response to that you are pushing, forcing and obsessing about her having once had feelings for the other man. She had feelings for you for YEARS and for him maybe for a few months. She has a history and a life with you--a past and dreams for a future based in reality. With him? She may have had fantasies not even remotely based in reality. Sooooo...why are you doing this? Again the only option I can think of is to push her away so that she leaves. :scratchhead:



> I care about her enough to let her go if that is what will make her the happiest.


Well this is just childish and silly and you know it! Other people do not "make" us feel anything. We choose our emotions. Think about it Noona. Don't you know people who are absolutely happy who are poor, have little or nothing, and yet see the blessing falling off the trees and choose to be happy where they are? And don't you know people who have it ALL: mansion, new cars, all the money they could bathe in it...and yet they are unhappy, jealous or greedy, and choose to be dissatisfied with where they are? Happiness does not come from "being with someone"--it comes from inside her. Soooo... she can absolutely choose to be happy with you, with her family, in her home, with her kids. 

I would say the major stumbling block to her happiness right now would be the continuing Love Extinguishers. If I were in her shoes, I'd be working on being open hearted, giving my husband the chance to behave in a way that is loving and shows me how much I mean to him...and if he instead tried to make me say that I loved the OM man more and him less... I have to say that for me that would be a HUGE extinguisher. What little bit of a fire of love I did manage to get built--that would be like dumping a kiddie pool on it! 



> As much as I want to be with her, I don't want her to be in a relationship if it is a sacrifice.


Again--not making sense! Being in a relationship, and especially a MARRIAGE relationship, is 100% all about sacrifice. When I marry, I sacrifice being with all other people. When I marry, I sacrifice a degree of privacy because I am willingly allowing another being to see me. When I marry, I sacrifice time because I'm agreeing to offer my time to be with or use it for my spouse. When I marry, I sacrifice selfish thinking because now I am willingly agreeing to always think of another. When I marry, I sacrifice!! And having children is another whole layer of responsibility and sacrifice! But you are saying here you don't want her to sacrifice. If she did choose to be with the OM, she would still sacrifice, Noona. Sooo...are you saying you would prefer if she sacrifice for him rather than for you? Nope I'm not buying this. 



> I want her to be as happy as possible and I care for her enough, and understand the hurt the issues that I have caused in the past, to let her make this decision FOR HER (not based on what she thinks is the right thing to do.


Do you really mean this? Because as I've pointed out over and over, your words are not matching your actions. If you want her to be as happy as possible, and she has boldly chosen you, then stop whining and trying to force her to leave and get to work. Stop obsessing on this one thing and trying to get her to say she loves/loved the OM more than you (or whatever) and START working on eliminating those Love Extinguishers. You say you understand the hurt and the issues that lead to this. Cool. What have you done to stop doing them? What have you changed? What are you doing now to better yourself? What are you doing to build THIS MARRIAGE and stop pushing her away? What are you doing to kindle the love? What actual concrete steps are you taking to make her the happiest she can be? 

I hate to be so blunt, Noona, and I know I've really been sort of "in your face" about this but I have to be honest. I think you don't want to change, don't want to work on your marriage, don't want to do the work you'd have to do in order to be a better man...and thus to avoid doing all that you would rather push her away and try to make her leave. That way, you can justify the divorce by saying "Well she had an affair and then chose to leave." No she didn't! She wants to stay! By your own words she loves you and always will. She wants YOU to be the one she feels that zing for! But rather than making the effort to really make her the happiest she can be, you'd rather say "...well I can let her go if I have to, since she loved the other man." 

Please, Noona, stop this today. Look at yourself today and what you're doing to cause your spouse pain, and stop.


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## MrsInPain (Feb 5, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Noona, I thought maybe we were past this, and speaking just as someone here on the forum who knows the situation a little bit, it's frustrating to hear that you are still stuck on this. Seriously this is an issue you have, and you are going to need to take steps to get beyond it or you're going to be adding Love Extinguishers to the marriage if you're not already. I don't know your wife or speak to her directly--and by the way if she'd be willing, I would LOVE to--but from what I see she's trying to build the fire of love for you, and you keep dumping buckets of water on her!
> 
> So much of what you wrote in this post makes no sense. Let me walk through it with you and explain why.
> 
> ...


I'm just curious... have you ever been cheated on?

I mean no disrespect. But, here goes... I see a lot of sympathy for the cheater and not much for the person who was cheated on.

Just the same as a cheater, who is in a "dizziness" or "fog" - so is the the person who was cheated on. Only 1000 times worse. The pain is SO immense that we (the people who were cheated on) at some point (or multiple points) have doubts as to whether or not the marriage could EVER go on, or whether or not the other spouse (the cheater) will EVER be happy enough to give us full fidelity again. We become weary of being hurt again. 

I think the Noona here is subconsciously protecting himself, while he's in this fog of immense pain. Rightfully so.

Obviously he is trying to work through this - otherwise he wouldn't be posting here and wouldn't have stayed in the marriage.

Yes - pushing the W away is not helping the marriage. But her cheating didn't help either. We all deal with pain in strikingly similar ways as humans. We get burned, we stay away from fire. Its a long, tough road after an affair. 

I have been to tons of therapy sessions, read 10+ books on the subject, and I STILL have a hard time trusting and letting my H in. I think as long as Noona stays, this "fog" will wear off. But make no mistake - HE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS WRONGED. Regardless of the circumstances - being cheated on SUCKS and it causes ridiculous amounts of pain and obsessive thoughts. I've never met someone who was cheated on that didn't go through this period of tremendous emotional pain, doubt, and obsessive thoughts. 

I'm not saying I know a solution to a perfect happy marriage after an affair. But I am saying I really resent the position that the person who was cheated on doesn't get a break. For crying out loud, his world was turned upside down when he was cheated on. Doesn't he get to have a "dizziness" too?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Actually, MrsinPain, I was cheated on many times in my first marriage. I believe once the marriage was over I found evidence for thirteen affairs altogether and then decided to quit counting. 

I do understand that Noona is reeling and was wronged. I also understand he's in pain and confused. But I don't see how having your world turned upside down would change the advice I'd give him, because I'm trying to help him clear the fog and see clearly. And at this point, based only on what he's writing here, he is the one who's harming things not her. Now she did plenty of harm by having an affair (make no mistake)! Yet she's not the one who's here asking for help, advice or thoughts....he is. Further, her wrongdoing does not justify him choosing to make a mess now. What I mean by that is that it is completely reasonable for him to be thrown for a loop, confused, hurt, recovering etc.--and part of her job if she was here--would be that the cost of her decisions means she now is responsible to help him get through this and support him. She did it--her job. But she can't do the work for him! He has to choose to want to actually get in there and rebuild his confidence and do the work necessary to do it! 

So in answer to your post, #1 he is here and thus he's the person I talk to and work with; we could go over her issues with a fine tooth comb and it would do no good whatsoever, so the goal here is to help him be the best man he can be, the man he has the ability to be, the man his wife fell in love with. If she comes we'll talk to her, but for now he's here. #2 Yeah he does have the right to be confused, befuddled, hurt, etc. but my job then would not be to jump in the dizziness with him. My job is to lead him out and guide him so he's clear of the dizzies! Also my job is to be honest with him and not let him justify doing wrong now "because she did wrong back then." Does that make sense? I do understand that people do that and I even understand why--shoot I do it myself on the occasion!  But that wouldn't change the fact that if I saw him doing it I shouldn't point it out to him. I'm kinda responsible to him now, you see?


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## MrsInPain (Feb 5, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Actually, MrsinPain, I was cheated on many times in my first marriage. I believe once the marriage was over I found evidence for thirteen affairs altogether and then decided to quit counting.
> 
> I do understand that Noona is reeling and was wronged. I also understand he's in pain and confused. But I don't see how having your world turned upside down would change the advice I'd give him, because I'm trying to help him clear the fog and see clearly. And at this point, based only on what he's writing here, he is the one who's harming things not her. Now she did plenty of harm by having an affair (make no mistake)! Yet she's not the one who's here asking for help, advice or thoughts....he is. Further, her wrongdoing does not justify him choosing to make a mess now. What I mean by that is that it is completely reasonable for him to be thrown for a loop, confused, hurt, recovering etc.--and part of her job if she was here--would be that the cost of her decisions means she now is responsible to help him get through this and support him. She did it--her job. But she can't do the work for him! He has to choose to want to actually get in there and rebuild his confidence and do the work necessary to do it!
> 
> So in answer to your post, #1 he is here and thus he's the person I talk to and work with; we could go over her issues with a fine tooth comb and it would do no good whatsoever, so the goal here is to help him be the best man he can be, the man he has the ability to be, the man his wife fell in love with. If she comes we'll talk to her, but for now he's here. #2 Yeah he does have the right to be confused, befuddled, hurt, etc. but my job then would not be to jump in the dizziness with him. My job is to lead him out and guide him so he's clear of the dizzies! Also my job is to be honest with him and not let him justify doing wrong now "because she did wrong back then." Does that make sense? I do understand that people do that and I even understand why--shoot I do it myself on the occasion!  But that wouldn't change the fact that if I saw him doing it I shouldn't point it out to him. I'm kinda responsible to him now, you see?


I agree with you wholeheartedly, I just feel bad for those in pain. Your advice is amazing, but I think a little more acknowledgment of his suffering would help him. 

I believe the biggest pitfall of the therapy I went through was the therapist's sympathy for my H. How is HE feeling? What MADE him cheat? I was thinking... "HELLO... person in pain here! A little help please!"


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## MrsInPain (Feb 5, 2010)

I should add - the fact that my pain felt overlooked caused a TON of resentment in me. It made me feel like I'd have to live with pain forever. I still am!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

MrsInPain said:


> I should add - the fact that my pain felt overlooked caused a TON of resentment in me. It made me feel like I'd have to live with pain forever. I still am!


There's a big difference her, m'lady- 

Your hubby is doing NOTHING to try to fix the situation, and he's doing all he can to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. He's doing what he can to continue the harm. 

By comparison, N's wife IS working to fix the situation, while Noona seems to be stuck in a loop, unwilling to work on the things he has done as part of this problem.

I've been cheated on - I know how it feels. Lost a marriage to an affair once. It's one thing to feel the pain and understand it and deal with it. It's another thing to use the pain to correct, punish or manipulate your spouse - even if unintentionally. The end result is the same: destruction of the marriage. The point of the posts here is to show that his wife cannot solve this alone. He needs to be involved as well.


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## MrsInPain (Feb 5, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> There's a big difference her, m'lady-
> 
> Your hubby is doing NOTHING to try to fix the situation, and he's doing all he can to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. He's doing what he can to continue the harm.
> 
> ...


I suppose my situation is a little confusing. Outwardly, people might say that my H is much like Noona's W. He says all the right things, has been sweeter, acting more humble, going to therapy. I just know that based on past events, this will end soon.

I guess I'm just quick to lump all "cheaters" into my H's category - the serial liar/cheater. I know Noona's W is making the right decisions and trying hard to rekindle their love. 

It's just... so is my H. But he is so different. I know this will not last and it's only a matter of time before the next bombshell is dropped. I just hope Noona is on guard. After an affair, you are vulnerable - opening up and fully putting yourself out there again (as I have done) can lead to devastation if another affair or transgression is discovered. I just worry too much. 

I really hope your marriage survives and grows stronger, Noona. Not everyone is like my H. Some cheaters can and do change.


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

I had posted a hasty response, but I think I need some time to process. I appreciate all the feedback. I don't agree with all of it, but I wouldn't expect everyone to have the right answers in every situation. If there was simply a recipe everyone could follow to fix a marriage, we would only need one post out here. 

I'll try to collect my thoughts and post later today. There has been some new developments that most likely will require a longer post than I have time for right now.

Thanks again everyone.


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## noona (Jan 6, 2010)

I appreciate those that have followed my story and have provided me advice and insight. I have had some new developments and I can say now that we are at rock bottom. 

Recap - Wife reconnected with a friend on facebook. W said she wanted to leave me (for valid reason of me not showing her my love as much as I should). A couple days after telling me, she said she had a "friend" that helped her along with this process, but she insisted she wasn't leaving because of this friend, he just helped her have the strength to leave. Then a while later, I found that they had said they loved each other and that they had arranged to meet 2 times (he lives 500 miles away). So, at this point is when I started posting on this site and working with my wife to rebuild our relationship. I was very well grounded in the fact that I was mostly to blame for her EA and that I was going to do whatever I could to be a better person and provide my W what she needed. I had struggles with some thing, which I have posted on this site.

As we went through this process I had this gut feeling that I was not getting the entire truth. Both her, and those on this site, assumed I had "issues" and I was trying to push her away from me and I should stop because I was pushing her back to him. Well, last night the guilt finally got the better of her and she confessed to a 6 month A, bot EA and PA now, that included buying a private cell phone, arranging a 2 night hotel stay with him, meeting with him while we were at her in-laws (in another state) for holidays. She paid for him to fly and meet her one other time as well. For the past two months, as we were working on this, she continued to lie to me.

So here is where I am at. I appreciate and respect the majority of the advice I have received to date. Lately, the debate has been I wanted her to make sure that our relationship is what she really wanted and that if she wasn't trying to make our relationship work for the right reasons (i.e. she truly wanted me and was not regretting missing out on another person). My point here was that I don't want to make a relationship work that is not grounded on true love for the two of us only. Evidently some on this site do not have the same thought. They feel that marriage should be worked on and individuals should battle through any feelings they have for another and forget and try to forget their true internally feeling in order to save the marriage. They also suggest that marriage vows are a reason to force yourself to stay even if you are living a lie and would prefer to love another.

I will say that we have moved past this. As my best friend, I wanted my wife to be honest with me and herself and make sure she wanted to be in our marriage and she wasn't doing it out of guilt or because she was afraid about the outcome of leaving. Sorry Affaircare and others, but I still stand by this. I may have been pushing her away, but I don't want to make our marriage work at any cost. I want to make it work if it is the right thing for both of us. Anyway, after this last discussion last night, I am confident that she truly wants to be with me and views the A as a mistake. I, nor her, were convinced of this until recently.

So now as I move on, I find myself still loving her more than anything. I still want to be with her and I will work as hard as humanly possible to be a better person and husband to my wife. What I need to work on is getting over the shock of her physically being with another person. We were high school sweet hearts and we were the only people that had any sexual contact with each other. This "innocence" is now broken. I need to figure out how I can get past this and look at my wife and our sex life in a different way. I can logically convince myself that this is not the crux of my issue. This is more of a petty issue that I will need to find a way to get over. Doesn't make it easy though.

What hurts the most at this point is the constant lying and betrayal. This include the 6 months of hiding and lying and cheating, as well as the lying that occurred in past two months we were working on our relationship. I continually asked her to tell me everything. I begged for this because I felt we needed to be at rock bottom in order to move on. I also asked her to not have contact and, prior to this last conversation, she was insistent that the opportunity to see how he was doing was available in the distant future. I couldn't comprehend how she was so bent on being friends with him after the two of them almost ruined our family. I had the hunch that she loved him more than she was letting on. Now, she has agree to end all communication and give him up forever.

I feel like the crux of our issues have been masked by a horrible wrong doing by my wife. I have many things to work on. I need to focus my energy on showing my wife that I love her. I need to block the other distractions in my life out in order to give her my full attention. I know this is the most important piece to making our marriage work again. However, we are stuck with dealing with this betrayal, lying and deceit.

My plan is to not think about this issue when we are together. I want to still romance my wife. I want to continue to be attracted to her and have sex with her. I want our alone time to not be clouded with these issues. Then, as I have time to myself to reflect, I can work through my issues. Then, I can schedule time to talk to my wife about these things things. I do not want to spend the majority of our time working on building the future, not reflecting on the past. I will still need time to get over the issues in the past, but I must focus on building the marriage again.

I may not get to a point where I can view my wife in the same light. I am not going to go down without a fight though. I tell myself that if I did leave my wife, it wouldn't make the hurt go away. I would just be hurt the same AND without the person I love. I also tell myself that 8 months and a handful of sexual acts does not trump the possibility of 50 more years of being with the person I love. I will do what I can to convince my heart what my mind knows to be true.....I will try to keep you posted. It means a lot that you all have taken an interest and have taken it upon yourselves to provide help!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

MrsInPain said:


> I suppose my situation is a little confusing. Outwardly, people might say that my H is much like Noona's W. He says all the right things, has been sweeter, acting more humble, going to therapy. I just know that based on past events, this will end soon.


Just to be a little clear, I think that MrsInPain's H and Noona's W are actually very, very different. 

On the one hand MrsInPain's H as been less that honest for their whole relationship and marriage. He has actively participated in illegal activities and regularly puts himself and those he loves in danger of physical, legal, and mental harm. Further, he does these things with little or no conscience nor does he sincerely pursue commitment, responsibility or selfless love (putting the needs of others ahead of his own). According to MrsInPain he has regularly and consistently caused EXTREME pain and hardship to those he supposedly loves, and he continues to manipulate and abuse them by pretending to go to counseling and saying things to prolong his control. 

On the other hand, Noona's W as been for the most part honest for their whole relationship and marriage. She has actively participated in religious and legal activities and regularly treats those she loves fairly well. Further, she does act and speak like she has a conscience and does sincerely pursue commitment, responsibility and selfless love (putting the needs of others ahead of her own). According to Noona she has rarely caused pain and hardship to those she loves, and in fact this affair has been pretty out of character for her. She says the right things and to back up those statements, she has been DOING the right thing despite his seeming attempt to push her to say she loves the OM more. 

So can both of you see how they are very different situations? Yes, both of you have suffered the pain of an affair, but I do have reasonable hope that Noona can have a stronger, more loving marriage if he steps up and does the work.


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## burned2manytimes (Jan 8, 2010)

You know I am going through my EA and have been all over the place and just a couple of days I went through this conversation with my H and it was productive I know that I am not the best at just forgetting things that happen but I realize that if I don't then I really am not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't like the situation but it happenend and those feelings I have will go away eventually in time I just now make sure that he knows that no matter I am here to listen and be there.

Moving forward is hard when all u look at is the what if's just remember that it is reason she stayed and is trying to be with you and only you and work from there. Your feelings are valid but if you want the marriage to work you both have to give it your all and make this the fight for togetherness, happiness, and new beginnings make it beautiful sometimes starting over is the best remedy. Leave the past in the past i wish u much success in your endeavors.


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## thebanker02 (Feb 14, 2010)

just seeing if I can post on another thread - keep getting error messages


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