# Should I be worried



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey Guys.
I am going to try and keep it short.
History: Me and my Wife are married for 7 years now, but have been together for 12 years. Since High School. We have 3 kids, marriage is great and sex was about average.

A couple of weeks ago we sat down and my wife purposed having a threesome or join the swinger lifestyle. Her Reason was that we have been together since school and she is scared that our sex life would become boring. 
She also said that she have never been with anyone else but me... and that she cant help to wonder about other possibilities. She assured me that she is still inlove with me and that she does not want leave me but just want to explore our sexuality, and because I am the jealous type she feels trapped sometimes.

I agreed to think about it but she knows im not comfortable with it. Since then Sex became amazing. We have sex about 3 times a day now

My problem is that Im an emotional person that cant separate sex from love making. I would like to explore "the lifestyle", but just cant get over my jealousy issues. 

So I am worried that if I can not get my self to exploring these things with her that it might cause our marriage to fall apart, or that she end up resenting me for it and our sex life would return to average. 

Any advice would be much appreciated!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Tell her that you are willing to have as many threesomes as she wants but no swinging whatsoever. 
And all the threesomes have to be with another woman,never a man. 
See how that grabs her.
Also tell her she can explore her sexuality to her hearts content. 
As a single woman. 
You need to man up here my friend because this is the start of a nightmare for you. The next time this discussion starts ask her does she want to be married to you or not. Also start checking phone records and her activities when you are not around.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

First of all, as most people here will tell you - she probably already has someone in mind. That's what you should be worried about, IMO.

Second of all - if this is something you have to wrestle with, think about, ask advice on - it's probably not for you. I'm not in the lifestyle, but several people here are. It's definitely not for everyone. You describe yourself as the jealous type. There's no room for that in this lifestyle. Strike one. And like many people, you have an emotional value attached to sex, where it's not "just sex". Strike two.

Lastly (and take this with a grain of salt) but if she's thinking about having sex with other people, to the point where she's come right out and asked for something like this - your answer will probably not deter her for long. That's the unfortunate reality. She's only ever been with one person, and she's clearly wondered/is wondering what she's "missed". That's not good.

On the plus side, if she's been honest and has only been with you, then it's a small positive that she's trying to include you in this, I guess. But at the same time, make no mistake - this is for her benefit, and she really only wants your blessing to assuage her guilt, most likely. There's a pretty solid chance - no matter how well you know her, or trust her - that if you say no, she'll act upon it eventually, without you there. Saying no to this may even cause some small resentment for you on her part, pushing her in that direction. Her justification will be "I need to do this".

Bad situation to be in, all around. Best of luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

No. No reason to be worried.

Find out who she got the idea from.

You are uncomfortable with it, I would say hell no myself, and you have a family to protect.

The answer should be obvious.

Lots of ways to spice things up without swapping.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Ideas just don't gets popped in people's head they originate from somewhere....this has to come from somewhere else...i would ask her if she had someone in mind from a male perspective....my concern is that she will try to pick someone she works with or knows....i would ask her is she had someone in mind? also i woudl ask here where this is coming from...where did she get this idea in the first place?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I don't see a reason to be worried. She shared her fantasy with you. Maybe it's her way of trying to spice things up in the bedroom? This does not mean you are required to agree to it. 

Be honest with her. If you do not want to explore that avenue, then don't. Tell her it crosses a sexual boundary for you. Openly communicate your concerns but don't be swayed.

Regardless of whether you want to explore or not, ask her to specify what she thinks she likes about swinging, for eg. sexual experiences with another woman, threesome/gang bang with other men, voyeurism, exhibitionism.....maybe she's into BDSM and confusing that with swinging (not the same)......maybe she's naturally non-monogamous, etc... Figure out her reasons for swinging. Maybe there are ways to incorporate some of those desires into your monogamous relationship (role playing, toys, etc..)

If you do decide to look into the lifestyle, I recommend you get advice from a forum specific to the topic. Not sure if Fet-Life fits the bill but I'm sure there are other swinger forums out there.

Good luck.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Yeah I would be worried. She already has the other guy picked out that she wants to bang. If you aren't comfortable with it, tell her hell no! 

Explain to her your reasons like you have here. Sex to you isn't transactional and not something you can ever separate from your feelings of love. While you are on the subject, it would be a good time to remind her that any fooling around behind your back is instant grounds for divorce. 

As others have pointed out, this spells trouble for your marriage. She is a highly likely candidate to cheat on you. 

Stand your ground on this one. Probably won't hurt to do a little digging through your phone bill and her social media accounts as well.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> No. No reason to be worried.
> 
> Find out who she got the idea from.
> 
> ...


No matter what @Exploring is willing to do to "spice up" their sex life, the one thing he can NEVER do is actually be someone else. Which is what his wife wants. This isn't about "spice" or "boredom". It's about the fact that she's never experienced sex with another man and wants to explore her sexuality with a variety of different situations and partners. 

If you want my $.02, be worried. Be very worried. The sex between you got better all of a sudden because she's that turned on by the thought that she has a chance to maybe have sex with new men and is putting in some effort in hopes you'll agree to open the marriage. Think about it. She's _that_ turned on by the _thought_ she_ might_ get to commit adultery. I have a feeling she's going to explore other men one way or the other.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> No matter what @Exploring is willing to do to "spice up" their sex life, the one thing he can NEVER do is actually be someone else. Which is what his wife wants. This isn't about "spice" or "boredom". It's about the fact that she's never experienced sex with another man and wants to explore her sexuality with a variety of different situations and partners.
> 
> If you want my $.02, be worried. Be very worried. The sex between you got better all of a sudden because she's that turned on by the thought that she has a chance to maybe have sex with new men and is putting in some effort in hopes you'll agree to open the marriage. Think about it. She's _that_ turned on by the _thought_ she_ might_ get to commit adultery. I have a feeling she's going to explore other men one way or the other.


I'd like to throw my pennies in as well...

This is not something you can go back to holding hands on... once this is done it cannot be undone.

This sounds like a winner take all hand with that special intimacy on the table as collateral.

This deck is stacked... the best three cards I've seen so far is "Be very worried".

Now you have 4¢ to keep in your pocket and not the pot.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Hey Guys.
> I am going to try and keep it short.
> History: Me and my Wife are married for 7 years now, but have been together for 12 years. Since High School. We have 3 kids, marriage is great and sex was about average.
> 
> ...




You can fight this, tell her No but look at the up side find a swinging couple where you are both attracted to the others.
Not just a new guy for her but a new woman for you. There is one real truth in marriage “ If she isn’t happy, you are not going to be either”. I,d agree to the couples swing if I was faced with that you are. Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Thank you so much for all the answers.
Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.

I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.

It seems that her intentions were really for the sake of our marriage. Guess only time will tell!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.
> ...


Yeah, those extra details make a very big difference. If she's over it, stop right there and let it go.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Yeah, those extra details make a very big difference. If she's over it, stop right there and let it go.


Yea this was only today after my post.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. *She then asked me about other methods to spice things up*, like BDSM etc.
> ...



She learned a valuable lesson.....sometimes fantasy is better than reality. No one gets their feelings hurt in fantasy world. Nevertheless, keep up with the open communication. You two seem to have a strong relationship. In no time, you'll come up with ways to make sex exciting for both of you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> No matter what @Exploring is willing to do to "spice up" their sex life, the one thing he can NEVER do is actually be someone else. Which is what his wife wants. This isn't about "spice" or "boredom". It's about the fact that she's never experienced sex with another man and wants to explore her sexuality with a variety of different situations and partners.
> 
> If you want my $.02, be worried. Be very worried. The sex between you got better all of a sudden because she's that turned on by the thought that she has a chance to maybe have sex with new men and is putting in some effort in hopes you'll agree to open the marriage. Think about it. She's _that_ turned on by the _thought_ she_ might_ get to commit adultery. I have a feeling she's going to explore other men one way or the other.


And odds are that a) she’s already got a specific someone in mind and b) she’s already gotten started.

A at least.

_Maybe_ B.

Check the phone bill, social media, web history, etc.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.
> ...


Well that was fast.

Sounds like a lot of deflection, though.

She expressed regret at having a grand total of one sex partner (which sounds an awful lot like “I want to bang other dudes...”) but now says the threesome that she had in mind would’ve been with another woman ...?

And she’s OK with you having sex with other women so long as you don’t get attached ...?

Sounds like she’s planting the seeds for a good ol’ fashioned bait and switch. Sounds like a fallback plan because she didn’t get the initial response that she’d hoped to get.

_Dig._


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Exploring,

It's a disaster if you go along with this. It goes really bad for at least one spouse in most cases, the women are the desired commodities in the swinging community. 

She may already have been in sexual relationship with someone else and wanted to bring it into the open.

She may have been sexting someone and wanted to meet in person.

She may have been in an emotional affair online or with a coworker or such.

She may have had a one night stand or some other type of physical contact and wanted to continue without the guilt, or balance the scales by allowing you to cheat. Could also have been with another woman.

You would be wise to check her phone and other means of communication.

Tamat


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> And odds are that a) she’s already got a specific someone in mind and b) she’s already gotten started.
> 
> A at least.
> 
> ...


I can't specifically comment as to what's going on in his wife's head. BUT, when my ex-wife wanted to explore a 3 way or swapping (FYI - I said no) it was with the guy she was already screwing and basically wanted to get my approval to legitimize their relationship to some extent. Not to say that this is happening, just be vigilant.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Exploring said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much for all the answers.
> ...


My thoughts exactly. Try and really think about how that initial conversation went exactly and the vibe she was giving off. Your first post certainly made it seem like she is the one with regret, not you. She approached you with this offer, why? Was it really for you? Because everything in your original post sounds like it was for her. Now suddenly it turns around that she wants to make sure you don't have any regrets later? 

If the conversations went like that, I'm not buying it. Check your phone bill and her social media at the very least. Any coworkers she talks about frequently, things like that? I would be on guard duty if I were you.

Depending on the source, infidelity is more probable than fidelity in marriage. Weather that is true or not, I think most people will agree, the probability of infidelity in marriage is high enough to feel justified to go into investigation mode if a red flag is suddenly waving. 

Cheaters lie and manipulate. I'm not saying she is one, but if suddenly a red flag is waving, its worth it to dig a little. At the very least, bust out the 'metal detector' so to speak. If you don't get any hits, no need to dig. But definitely scan the area for what could be hiding underneath.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

She?s saying your not enough for her. She?s saying she wants another man?s ****. She?s saying she doesn?t not want to be 100% faithful but wants your permission.

You married her, she?s your wife. You both took an oath to be exclusive to one another and now she wants to break that oath with your permission.

Do not do it. You?re the jealous type and you will get jealous and lose it. 

Tell her to keep this a fantasy. Tell her she can explore sexuality with you, since you are her husband and that?s what she signed up for, otherwise you can set her free completely. 

This will ruin your marriage. I?ve seen two couples get into swinging and be destroyed. 

She will not want to hear the answer NO. No one does. You can tell her maybe, but you?ll have to have the final say before anything happens and she must agree. Then never okay it.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

This topic was brought up exactly once. I stated that the only threesomes that I would be interested in would be my wife, another woman and myself. She dropped the subject immediately.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> I can't specifically comment as to what's going on in his wife's head. BUT, when my ex-wife wanted to explore a 3 way or swapping (FYI - I said no) it was with the guy she was already screwing and basically wanted to get my approval to legitimize their relationship to some extent.* Not to say that this is happening, just be vigilant*.


Yeah. I think it's reasonable to go into "trust, but verify" mode for some time after a spouse mentions opening the marriage. 

It wouldn't be the first or even 100th time I've heard of a spouse suggesting swinging or a 3-way to assuage the guilt they feel for the affair they've already had/are having or to set the stage for the affair they want to have. So, yeah, I'd be extra-vigilant for some months if this conversation happened in my marriage.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.
> ...


Sounds like this may have been a **** test, or Gus is right, and your answer threw her right off.

If it was a **** test - be glad. Although **** tests aren't terribly nice, it can be a way of reinforcing her over all view of you.

Funny story - when I first started dating my ex wife (we were late teens), I got a phone call one evening from this girl who said she noticed me at work. She wanted to get to know me better, maybe go out some time, blah blah blah.

I politely declined, and also added that I was not single. I didn't even ask her any questions, or acted intrigued or interested. Didn't even ask her who she was. Call ended, and I hung up.

10 seconds later, phone rings again, and it's my girlfriend. Tells me that was her aunt, who just came into town, who called me just now, and "she approves" of me. Yes, ironic how that relationship and subsequent marriage ended up, but I digress...

So if this was a **** test by your wife, OP - good job, you passed.

If Gus is correct (which is equally as likely) - keep your eyes open.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.
> ...


\

Would any of this bother me? Yes, as any of it could destroy the marriage and my relationship with the woman I married and the children we have.

While it may be intellectually noble of her to not want to destroy your marriage because of your wanting a different pair of tits, or wanting something sexual that she can't give, she really can't say what she would feel if you had a just sex romp or brought another woman over to spend the night with the two of you.

The reality of it all could overwhelm her. If so, you would have a huge problem.

If she wants to have some kind of 3 some or you want to have some kind of spice it up sex thing, my suggestion is do some role playing where you or she pretend to be someone else. But by all means just the two of you. That is what marriage should be about.

Good luck.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Yes all of this doom and gloom and the-sky-is-falling talk could be true and that there is a disaster waiting at every corner and the Bogey Man could jump out of every shadow.


.......or maybe she wants to get down with another chick and have a threesome where you can hook up with another chick too.

Threesomes (and swinging and orgies etc) really do exist in the world and there are happily married couples in the world who do get to experience the fun and excitement and variety of having a little recreational sex here and there without having any problems from it.

It really does happen. My wife and I did it for almost 10 years. 

Are there potential hazards and do people have to do their homework and use a little common sense and have exceptional communication and such? Absolutely!!!

But we can choose to live in fear and let all of deep fears and anxieties and let the fears of strangers on the internet (many of whom are victims of infidelity and think that even the slightest idea of sexuality is a evil plot to cheat) make us afraid to even leave the house.

Or we can try to keep an open mind, research and learn about new topics, communicate openly and honestly with our spouses and explore some new ideas carefully and incrementally and keep our eyes and ears open for any potential problems on the horizon and deal with them responsibly if a red flag should appear.

I was a 'Frady Cat too when the topic of swinging first started coming up in our marriage and I too was afraid of all of these disasters and worse case scenarios. 

In my case I simply decided that I wasn't going to be governed by fear and "what if?s". 

10 years later I have had 3somes, 4somes, moresomes, orgies and had the time of my life and virtually NONE of the disasters I had envisioned in my mind have ever materialized.

Are there potential risks and hazards in swinging? Yes there are and I can tell you many stories of things that have happened to people that I have known personally.

But I can also tell you about countless people that have had more fun than porn stars that have been in the lifestyle 20+ years with no more issues than any other normal couple.

Strict monogamy has just as many pitfalls, problems and disasters too. 

I chose to do my homework and research and learned all I could to protect ourselves and our marriage to reduce and mitigate the risks and I had the best years of my life and had amazing sexual adventures with many wonderful and amazing women. 

I chose to not live in fear or be goverened by other people's hang ups or my own "What If?s"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So @Exploring 

As someone with about 10 years or real-world experience in the lifestyle, my reccommendation is this -

- research and learn all you can. Read books, do internet searches, get on to swinger forums ( TAM is probably not a good website to research swinging because it is very pro-traditional, monogamous marriage and many of the posters here have been cheated on by their spouses) contact swingers club owners and interview them; most club owners are glad to talk with curious couples and address any questions and concerns they may have.

And most importantly of all, talk to your wife openly and honestly about it...... A LOT.

My wife and I researched it and talked about it for a year before we dipped our toes in the lifestyle at all and then it was another year of incremental baby steps before we actually had sex with another couple.

Research it and talk about and if you decide it's not for you, then don't do it.

If you do decide to try it after learning about it and learning the risks and benefits, then take tiny baby steps forward and if you get uncomfortable you can always stop and not proceed further. 

I will be the first to admit it is not for most people. 

But for the couples that it does work for, it is an awesome adventure :-D


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Exploring said:


> Hey Guys.
> I am going to try and keep it short.
> History: Me and my Wife are married for 7 years now, but have been together for 12 years. Since High School. We have 3 kids, marriage is great and sex was about average.
> 
> ...


Bet she is watching a lot of porn, that would be the first thing I look into. Don't do a threesome if you don't want to. She is changing the agreement not you, do not let her bully you into it. Since your agreement was a monogamous relationship you a valid reason to balk at her changing it. jealousy has nothing to do with it. 

Frankly when I hear this crap my first reaction to my wife if she asked for this would be me first. We go to a swingers club and you watch me have sex with women first, the whole time. Then I decided if I am cool with you doing the same. It's only fair since she is the one changing the terms of the deal. Bet she doesn't go for it.

This posts hits all the buttons doesn't it?


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

This is a great fantasy post.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> Tell her that you are willing to have as many threesomes as she wants but no swinging whatsoever.
> And all the threesomes have to be with another woman,never a man.
> See how that grabs her.
> Also tell her she can explore her sexuality to her hearts content.
> ...


It’s really nice to read replies like this. It reminds me that my husband and I are not the only ones raising strong men who protect their families and marriages. Andy, your parents did a good job with you!

OP, if my husband ever agreed to something like this, I’d lose all respect for him. I’m not sure what is going on with your wife or if there’s more to the story here, but I cannot for the life of me understand why a woman would want to risk her marriage for the thrill of having sex outside of her marriage. I have one friend who proposed this to her own husband (and I had to tell her we can’t be friends anymore because I can’t support this) but she did it because her husband was wining and dining female clients regularly and alone at night against her wishes. She finally decided to go out and make male friends and ended up developing strong feelings for one who admitted he wanted to be with her, and proposed an open marriage to her husband as a way to get his OK (and show him that he can flirt all he wants, but she will too).

I’d be concerned that your wife not only has little respect for her marriage but also that there could be another man she wants your permission to explore.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Yes all of this doom and gloom and the-sky-is-falling talk could be true and that there is a disaster waiting at every corner and the Bogey Man could jump out of every shadow.
> 
> 
> .......or maybe she wants to get down with another chick and have a threesome where you can hook up with another chick too.
> ...


On your soap box today aren't you? Your life experiences work for a very small minority of the population. To suggest that people are closed minded and ruled by fear because they aren't comfortable with swinging and sex outside of their own marriage is beyond arrogance. 

Watch your step as you come down off that high horse of yours.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

OP. PM me if you want real world perspective on swinging.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

alexm said:


> Sounds like this may have been a **** test, or Gus is right, and your answer threw her right off.
> 
> If it was a **** test - be glad. Although **** tests aren't terribly nice, it can be a way of reinforcing her over all view of you.
> 
> ...



Reading this reminds me of a local radio show around here that actually lets people call in to the DJs and ask them to "set up" a spouse or BF/GF. The radio guys call them up saying they won a trip or some weekend getaway and ask them who they are taking with them. The person who called in is on the line listening to the response...and some of them actually get caught giving the "wrong answer" DOH

I don't think it's a prank or "test" though. Why? She suddenly wants to screw him three times a day....SOMETHING about it turned her on.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

If she keeps asking.
If she keeps asking go to the medicine chest and get a razor blade.

Hand it to her.

Tell her if that is what she needs or wants to do, then please cut your throat now. 
So you do not have to witness this travesty.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

If my wife all of a sudden wanted sex 3 times a day right out of the blue. I honestly wouldn’t give a rats Rump why. But when you introduce other people into your sex life, you really are flirting with disaster. Your wife says you can have sex with others as long as it isn’t emotional........well please explain to me how you avoid that for certain. What if you meet someone who rocks your world in ways your wife never has don’t tell me you won’t keep coming back for more you will become attached....when that happens and it easily could.......then what?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> On your soap box today aren't you? Your life experiences work for a very small minority of the population. To suggest that people are closed minded and ruled by fear because they aren't comfortable with swinging and sex outside of their own marriage is beyond arrogance.
> 
> Watch your step as you come down off that high horse of yours.


The majority of married are not going to have an interest in swinging or threesomes or whatever.

But some people do have an interest and some may not have have much thought but are willing to consider it if their partner brings it up.

There is a difference between having a moral conviction against it or looking into it and making a conscious decision to not do it, or simply having no interest in it vs having an irrational fear of it or buying into outright paranoia. 

Much of the mythology and rumor mill surrounding swinging is simy that - mythology and rumors and paranoia.

A lot of what has been said in this thread are "what if?s" and fear mongering.

Are their risks and hazards and pitfalls in swinging that people need to be cognizant of and on the lookout for? Absolutely!

Is it for everyone? Absolutely not.

I've actually been very active in the lifestyle and have had first hand experience and I am open about the hazards and risks as well as the benefits.

I urged research and open communication.

If there are any high horses here, it is people who have not had any experience in that lifestyle that are shouting disaster scenarios, "What If?s" and fear mongering from the rooftops.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Exploring said:


> Yea this was only today after my post.


You should have asked if she had someone in mind for the threesome. There was another wife that asked for this. She was already cheating with who she had in mind.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > On your soap box today aren't you? Your life experiences work for a very small minority of the population. To suggest that people are closed minded and ruled by fear because they aren't comfortable with swinging and sex outside of their own marriage is beyond arrogance.
> ...


People are shouting disaster scenarios based on either personal experience, personal preference, or the experiences of close friends who have experienced the alternative lifestyle which lead to complete disaster for their relationship. Reread your post oldshirt. I may be new to this particular forum, but I'm not new to relationship forums. And as your name suggests, you are indeed an old shirt. 

That is why I'm surprised by your particular response, the one I quoted. Your judgemental tone may have been purposefully done to oppose harsh negative opinions on the matter, but it was done in poor taste, and I am the type to call someone out on that. 

Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster of the same background, but wasn't it you who created a different account on another forum to ask a particular question where you didn't want your past brought into the discussion to gain a different perspective on matters with your wife? Please correct me if I'm wrong here. 

If it wasn't you, I apologize. If it was you, you know better than to dismiss another person's feelings on this subject as sheer paranoia and "living your life in fear" as you asked for an opinion under false pretenses to gain a different perspective on a situation you were dealing with. 

Regardless, I found your particular post in poor taste. I generally agree with you, but if I don't, and perceive your post as an insult to other members, I will say something about it. Suddenly you backtracked on your tone with this response. I think its because you know better. That is why I called you out. Come on man, reread the post I quoted. You know insults on a relationship forum have their place. This wasn't one of them. Perhaps I have a higher standard of you because I generally agree with you. But your post wasn't fair to a lot of people, and I have a feeling you know it. 

By all means I expect anyone to call me on my bullchit at any time should I be spewing it.

As for the OP, I stand by what I said. Metal detector mode. Scan the area, no need to dig if you don't get a hit. But it is worth scanning the area for hidden motives. As much BS scenarios as oldshirt and the rest of us has surely read, come on man, even you (oldshirt) have to admit it is worth putting the feelers out in this scenario based off the limited information given by the OP.

I don't care who you are, 35-60% infidelity rate is high enough to be on guard when a red flag is waving. I don't care if you believe it is on the low end. You go to work and are talking with only two other married people. At best, only one of you has likely experienced infidelity in your relationship. At worst, two of you three have. 1/3, 1/2, 2/3? I dont care how you slice it, if a red flag is waving where infidelity is concerned, it is in your best interest to at least do a quick scan. I dont see how any rational person can argue this point.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Exploring, why did your wife’s story or dialogue change from your first to second posting. 

First post she is clearly talking about having another man. She can’t help thinking what it would be like sense she has only been with you. She is worried because you’re the jealous type. 

Second post she puts a stop to the swinging part and says the threesome was going to be with another woman. Then she basically gives you the green light to bang another woman on your own. 

This doesn’t make sense. 

I think your wife is cheating on you. Guilt I believe is driving this.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

ABHale said:


> Exploring, why did your wife?s story or dialogue change from your first to second posting.
> 
> First post she is clearly talking about having another man. She can?t help thinking what it would be like sense she has only been with you. She is worried because you?re the jealous type.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this. She knows you are the jealous type. She knows you are the type to link sex and love making as the same thing. She feels "trapped" which is a common theme amongst both wayward spouses and betrayed spouses. Based on your first post, she wants to experience sex with another person that isn't you. I don't care what your background is on the subject, this is clear to everyone with a first grade level of reading comprehension. 

My question is, why does she suddenly feel this way after so many years? Do you honestly believe she brought this up with you in mind? Keep in mind your first post makes it seem like she is the one missing out. She approached you with this. She said she is the one "missing out."

Wouldn't you think her original questioning on this matter would be more about you if it were truly more about you? Why would she feel "trapped" if this was about you and not her? 

It simply doesn't add up. Or is she manipulating you to want to have sex with another woman? But why though? What could possibly be her end game manipulating someone who doesn't see sex as a simple transaction, into having sex with another person? None of this really adds up to a rational thought. You attach love and love making together. Why does she so suddenly seem worried about you stepping out for "a pair of tits" when she damn well knows you aren't that type of guy? 

You can choose to be in the dark on this, but I say she is waving a rather blatant red flag on this one. 

Lets be honest here, if you were the type to entertain banging another woman, certainly you wouldn't even be here right? You would have taken the green light clearly given and ran with it. The green light given in your second post! You would absolutely jump at the thought of a threesome with another woman right? But you have your reservations, which is why she approached the subject as she did. 

The two posts just do not line up at all and you would be foolish not to question and at the very least do a little snooping (fully justified I might add) under the cercomstances of the situation. 

I've said it before and ill say it again, I'm not buying her story in the second post. Not for a second without doing your due diligence. The first post absolutely reads this is about her. She has regrets and feels "trapped" just think about that word alone, she feels "trapped?" Because nobody uses that word unless they feel they are in an unfair situation in which they wish to remove themselves from but have no means to do so. Which would imply that sex with you and you alone is an unfair situation in which she feels she desperately wants to remove herself from but has no means to do so with you in the way. 

RED FLAG!!! 

You are certainly justified in sending out the feelers on this one. Nothing about your two posts add up at all I'm afraid.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> People are shouting disaster scenarios based on either personal experience, personal preference, or the experiences of close friends who have experienced the alternative lifestyle which lead to complete disaster for their relationship. .


I also agree with and appreciate many of your posts as well. However I do believe this statement above is missing the mark a bit. 

The posts that I read were not relating their personal experiences and perspectives in regards to swinging at all. They were relating their experiences and perspectives in regards to cheating and infidelity within traditional marriages. 

Many of the people on this forum have been betrayed by a spouse or serious partner and that shaped their perspectives so that any inkling of anything the slightest bit out the box is instantly perceived to be some evil plot to commit adultery or if some woman has an idea of a sexual nature or has some kind of increase/decrease in her typical sexual repetoire' it automatically means she is cheating or is intending to cheat. 

Yes I myself am a big proponent of keeping your eyes and ears open and taking heed of various red flags and signs. But t because a woman mentions something sexual does not mean she is an adulteress or adulteress in the making. 

Yes, maybe this gal wanted to have sex with another man and perhaps a woman. Millions do. People are sexual beings. Very few if in fact ANY people go through an 80+ year life span without curiosities and interests in exploring their sexuality with more than one person in a lifetime. I am sorry that is terribly threatening and intimidating to many people, but it is a reality. And it is a reality that all couples must address to one degree or another. I'm not saying that everyone should take up swinging at all. I am saying that as a species, humans have curiosities and urges and desires for more than one person throughout their lifespans. 

And in regards to the offense you took at my post, I never mean for my posts to be offensive or insulting, however I too call it like I see it and in this thread I saw many of the posts being unnecessarily alarmist, inflammatory, fear mongering and some were even downright hostile towards anyone that would even suggest considering some form


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

.... ooops, sorry. I hit the post key too soon.


Anyway, as I was saying, I felt many posters were being too alarmist and jumping to too many conclusions of adultery and wannabe cheating when no substantive evidence of such was presented by the OP. 

I have not gone back through every single post, but from what I have seen thus far, I have been the only poster on this thread with real-world swinging experience. 

Many have had real world experience with infidelity and it is fine to point out that all that glitters is not gold and it is important for the OP to keep his eyes and ears open for any potential funny business. I get that and I don't necessarily disagree with it if it is a reasonable degree. 

But c'mon, swinging exists in the world and there are millions of active swingers and those discussions had to start somewhere. Is it fair or even reasonable that the moment the word "swinging" or "threesome" is even mentioned that people go setting off alarms and going to DefCon 3 and start casting stones at some woman just because she brings up the topic after 13 years of marriage??

We can be better than that. Is our collective manhood (or womanhood) so fragile and so threatened that a married couple that have been together over a decade and have raised 3 kids together cannot even mention something nontraditional without burned at the forum stake as an adulteress????


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > People are shouting disaster scenarios based on either personal experience, personal preference, or the experiences of close friends who have experienced the alternative lifestyle which lead to complete disaster for their relationship. .
> ...


I can understand that. I'm seriously thrown off by the "trapped" comment and I can't make sense of it any other way. I am neither a BS or WS, so my questioning isn't blurred by past experiences in this realm. I found this forum (and the other one I got banned from) due to other issues. So I'm not speaking as a paranoid BS or WS, I'm calling it like I see it. 

I ask you, what kind of person feels "trapped" when it comes to sex with another person outside of their own marriage? The type who wants to experience another person, or the type who wants their spouse to experience another person? This is so ridiculously easy to see that I can't believe someone as intelligent as you is pushing back on this. Someone who is a proponent of taking heed to various red flags.

Skip all the other banter here and just reread the OP's first and his second post. Craft a scenario in which it seems reasonable for his wife to feel "trapped" that doesn't spell red flag. I personally don't think you can do it. 

I mean no offense to you either btw. I known you are a no BS (bullchit) guy who calls it like he sees it. I would fully expect a guy like you to call me out if my post is clearly questionable and unfair to a lot of people. I just think you got wrapped up in the responses that questioned your previous way of life more so than actually responding to the two posts made by the OP. Ive been guilty of the same. No doubt a large part of why I was banned from another forum was because I simply couldn't stop attacking all the blatant man hating women and extreme feminist posts on that site and the mods for allowing the broad brush painting going on by women and deleting posts and punishing men who did the same. 

No disrespect meant to you. I still don't think you can make sense or the OP's only two posts here if you just read them and skip everything else.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> > TheDudeLebowski said:
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > oldshirt said:
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Oh good lord. I just tried to fix a spelling error. Hopefully a mod will clean all that up. I don't know how all that happened. 

I understand your perspective oldshirt. It is a personal attack on your old way of life with some of these posts. I personally try hard to not do that. But again, just reread the only posts made by the OP. I'm not trying to suggest he should automatically assume she is messing around. I'm not trying to say swinging is against some almighty moral code we should all adhear to. But his posts do NOT add up to a two sided swinging discussion. Please craft a scenario in which they do and I will gladly eat my words (and unfortunate triple posts) I still dont think you can do it. 

Seriously, she used the phrase "I feel trapped" is she just too stupid to approach the subject with a little more tact and persuasion? Maybe I'm give women too much credit for being smarter than that? You have been married a long time and a part of the alternative life style. If your wife came to you and said "I feel trapped by our situation" do you think she would saying that to get YOU laid? Because she feels she needs to protect your relationship from your own temptations, or would you take her feelings of being "trapped" as she is having a hard time controlling her own temptations?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > TheDudeLebowski said:
> ...


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey guys.

After a very long discussion last night we finally came to a conclusion.

I think I over reacted. Its hard to post all the details because I can not describe attitude, body language etc clearly. 

She explained that she was wondering about it, not saying that she actually wanted to do another guy... This I can understand, I have been with other girls before but if you had only one sexual partner all your life, I guess everyone thinks about it. 

We came to an agreement that if there is any fantasies, no matter how freaky or weird that we would discuss it and take it from there. She also assured me that she will never do anything without my consent.

The "TRAPPED" comment - We are both business owners working from the same premises, and she felt trapped in the sense that whenever she goes out for business meeting, I always want to know where she is etc. 
I know you guys are going to say "Red Flag", but cheating is impossible, we see each other 99% of the day. We have a couple of shared computers with all our social media accounts etc one, and she has so far never tried to hide anything. So I justify my "nosiness of here where-being" because I care for her. We live in a very unsafe country with the highest crime rate. So whenever she is not with me I am truly concerned for her safety. This is not over reacting, where we live you can not even go to a shop 2km away without the risk of being hijacked. 

She also confirmed that since our initial conversation a couple of weeks ago, I have become more distant and that actually helped her allot by feeling fee. For example a couple of nights ago she went on a girls night, 1st one in over 10 years and really enjoyed it. (Again no Red Flag as I know all of the girls that was there very well).
The Threesome- She said that she would like to explore with another girl in the distant future, but want to explore it with me, or if I wanted to, she would want to do it with me. But for now she is totally satisfied with our new allot-of-sex life.

I read all the post carefully and just wanted to thank all of you guys for the input. I really appreciate it.

Hope I would not have to post on this forum again. 

Cheers


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Let me give you a few quick examples of things that do trigger some alarm bells if someone brings up some kind of open relationship or swinging scenarios -

- anything where there was prior adultery, prior over-the-top lying or deception about anything, and any kind of chronic disrespect or maltreatment of a spouse.

- anything that involves any kind of pressure, coersion or duress or threats if they do not go along with it. 

-any kind of sexual dysfunction or chronic sexual dissatisfaction of one or both parties ( I do not get too overly excited if the word "bored" is used in a long term couple as long as everything else seems to be in place. Again, people use the terminology that they are used to)

- I do have concerns over any type of "Hotwife/Cuckold/gang bang etc type lifestyles. I do believe that activities where the female is the active participant and the male is the observer or the passive party carries a higher degree of risk. I usually tend to discourage those kinds of activities as I believe that carries a much higher risk of the female losing respect and attraction to a passive, noninvolved husband while she gets sexed up by other males. 

- and finally I do raise an eyebrow if someone brings up open marriage or threesomes etc out of the blue and they happen to have Bob or Steve or Rick at work or the gym that they think might be willing to join them. If someone seems to bring the subject up completely out of the blue and they have a specific person in mind and seem unwilling to consider anyone else or any other situation such as going to a swinger club or resort or check out any swinger websites or anything, it does raise an eyebrow that perhaps there is more going on with Bob or Steve or Rick already than simply a cute coworker. 

Now that being said, it is common for couples to look into their current pool of friends and associates when they first start having their first discussions. What is the tip off here is if they make the initial approach to the spouse with that specific person in mind and are unwilling to consider or discuss any other options. 

Those are the things that set off my alarm bells right off the bat as an experienced swinger and I did not pick any of those things up in the OP's posts.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > TheDudeLebowski said:
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Understood. OP fwiw, my wife and I are high school sweet hearts as well. My wife, like yours, has only ever been with me. I've been with a few different women way back then. My wife has zero interest in other men sexually. She didn't even masturbate until in her 30s. She is sexually very open, but it seems only with me and on extreme rare occasion she will pleasure herself. She has tried just about everything with me, but I can honestly tell you she only seems interested in anything sexual if I alone am involved or even indirectly involved with the few times she has masturbated. 

Not once has she ever hinted at regret or curiosity or anything of the sort. So I come from an extreme opposite end of the the spectrum from oldshirt. His idea is it is natural to feel trapped. Nobody here in our 18 years together feels trapped or anything even remotely close. I don't even consider the word trapped to be the truth of what people feel. Nobody is ever trapped. We certainly aren't. Equal earners, both fit and attractive. There is no trapped here, it is only desire. Desire to only be with her and her to only be with me. Both of us could get laid easily and would have no problem bagging a 10. I'm not trying to sound conceited either, I'm just being honest. 

Trapped is such a poor word in my opinion. Or maybe better, it is just an over used word that doesn't fit most people's situations. That word implies there is zero actions you can take to change your situation. That doesn't apply to adults in relationships in my book. 

Make no mistake, me and my wife do not need each other in the slightest. We could split tomorrow and both of us would be just fine. The word trapped had no place in our relationship. We choose to be with one another and forsake all others. That is what makes a relationship and marriage so special to me. I don't feel trapped in the slightest. I can go out to a bar tomorrow and pick up a girl if I wanted to and close the deal. Simple fact is I don't want to. Trapped has nothing to do with it.

Thus the word trapped is a red flag to me. It is a negative thought meant to remove all personal responsibility from yourself. Play the victim and to take all the pressure off of yourself. It is used to remove all guilt and accountability for your thoughts and actions from yourself, and instead place the blame on another person or outside force. 

Neither my wife nor I have any time for this BS in our marriage. Nobody is ever trapped here. That is a guarentee. That word is utter BS in relationships imo. 

Glad things are working out for you OP. Ease up on your wife and let her breath btw. Perhaps she used the T word because you're a bit controlling? Cut the crap if that is indeed the case. Allow your wife to spread her wings and do what she loves and does best.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Understood. OP fwiw, my wife and I are high school sweet hearts as well. My wife, like yours, has only ever been with me. I've been with a few different women way back then. My wife has zero interest in other men sexually. She didn't even masturbate until in her 30s. She is sexually very open, but it seems only with me and on extreme rare occasion she will pleasure herself. She has tried just about everything with me, but I can honestly tell you she only seems interested in anything sexual if I alone am involved or even indirectly involved with the few times she has masturbated.
> 
> Not once has she ever hinted at regret or curiosity or anything of the sort. So I come from an extreme opposite end of the the spectrum from oldshirt. His idea is it is natural to feel trapped. Nobody here in our 18 years together feels trapped or anything even remotely close. I don't even consider the word trapped to be the truth of what people feel. Nobody is ever trapped. We certainly aren't. Equal earners, both fit and attractive. There is no trapped here, it is only desire. Desire to only be with her and her to only be with me. Both of us could get laid easily and would have no problem bagging a 10. I'm not trying to sound conceited either, I'm just being honest.
> 
> ...


I dont know, dont really agree with you. You cant judge on a personality you dont know? And also, like I mentioned the "trapped" should be seen more physical. Work for us is in the same yard as our home. So we work from 6 to 6 then walk 5m home, then spending some time with kids. Same routine day in, day out. I also feel trapped. But its on circumstances. But yeah we set a schedule for ourselfs where we both get a night of per week.

I guess with 3 kids its easy to get in a rut. Include stress of having your own business x 2 is also a huge factor. Apart from the "night off" we also committed to a getaway weekend just for me and her once a month. 

Again, its hard post emotions and attitude on a forum. So I understand your point of view


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ABHale said:


> Exploring, why did your wife’s story or dialogue change from your first to second posting.
> 
> First post she is clearly talking about having another man. She can’t help thinking what it would be like sense she has only been with you. She is worried because you’re the jealous type.
> 
> ...


My ex wife once told me I could get oral sex elsewhere, as she could no longer do it for me, due to TMJ.

She meant it. It wasn't a "go get it elsewhere" statement. It was well-thought out, implying that she felt bad she couldn't do this any more, and she'd be fine if I got it elsewhere. It wasn't a throw-away comment.

Obviously, I did not, nor did I want to. She wasn't able to give it to me, and I was okay with that. Far different than "can, but won't".

At the time, I was conflicted as to whether this was a **** test, or if she genuinely felt bad and was being "cool". Regardless, I said "yeah, no, I'm not doing that", and I never heard about it again.

Spoiler alert: the marriage ended because she had met someone else, and had been in a relationship with OM for ~2 years before she announced her decision to split. There was at least one other incident that I had turned a blind eye to, right around the time she said I could go elsewhere. Shocking, I know.

Basically, when a spouse says you can go get A, B or C (or all of the above) elsewhere, it's because -

- _they_ already are, or want to
- they've checked out, and genuinely don't care
- both of those


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

cricket12 said:


> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” “I love you but not in love with you.” or version thereof. Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up.


Nope not even close. Please check my latest reply


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

cricket12 said:


> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” “I love you but not in love with you.” or version thereof. Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up.
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> ...





alexm said:


> My ex wife once told me I could get oral sex elsewhere, as she could no longer do it for me, due to TMJ.
> 
> She meant it. It wasn't a "go get it elsewhere" statement. It was well-thought out, implying that she felt bad she couldn't do this any more, and she'd be fine if I got it elsewhere. It wasn't a throw-away comment.
> 
> ...



Yes she asked if I ever needed to, I can go and get it somewhere else, but I must include her, and she wants in on the action. She meant it in a sincere way because she wants us to explore TOGETHER.

To put it in your situation, your ex should have asked you If she and another lady can go down on you?


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## fotf17 (Sep 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Yes all of this doom and gloom and the-sky-is-falling talk could be true and that there is a disaster waiting at every corner and the Bogey Man could jump out of every shadow.
> 
> 
> .......or maybe she wants to get down with another chick and have a threesome where you can hook up with another chick too.
> ...


 @Exploring, this is a good perspective, honestly. The lifestyle is not for everyone, or even most people (myself included), but there are people and couples out there who do make it work, and have fully satisfying emotional, physical, and loving relationships. 

You should check out the r/sex subreddit over on Reddit. They are very sex-positive, and you will find both realistic and encouraging stories about exploring sexuality. However, that community is also very rigid in their view point that both partners need to be fully on board for these kinds of activities; if one partner feels even a shred of discomfort, then they have the right to veto. The degree of communication that should go into making a decision like this is high - these kinds of activities should never be undertaken spontaneously. Discussion should take weeks, pre-event non-sexual meetups should occur, etc. etc.

If you were to entertain this idea, some ground rules should accepted by both partners:

If the third is a male:
- He cannot be a friend or contact of your wife or your relationship
- You have input into the choice of partner
- You have final veto power of his selection, for whatever reason you decide is valid.

The same should apply for your wife if the third is a female. She gets to pick, veto, etc.

If she was unwilling to accept these ground rules, personally, I'd be concerned that this isn't about exploring sexuality. Like others have mentioned, she might have something/someone in mind or there are other things going on. 

Edit: but based on your last post, it does past the sniff-test that she is in on exploring sexuality, so that's good! As long as the view-point is what you do *together*, it's all good.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Yes she asked if I ever needed to, I can go and get it somewhere else, but I must include her, and she wants in on the action. She meant it in a sincere way because she wants us to explore TOGETHER.
> 
> To put it in your situation, your ex should have asked you If she and another lady can go down on you?


This post is spot on folks and this is why I, as an experienced swinger, am not hearing any alarm bells going off or seeing any red flags that scream infidelity. 

People are trying to tie this in to his wife cheating and there simply isn't anything this far that is a warning sign for cheating.

I gotta news flash for all if you - cheating is a whole easier and less work than swinging.

If she wanted to get down with someone else without his knowledge and consent, it would've been a whole easier for her to have just gone out and cheated.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

...... Now is she curious and intrigued by the idea of having sexual experiences with other men and women? Yes she is. That is why she brought up the idea.

But swinging is exploring sexuality within the marriage with your spouse as part of the marital dynamic.

Cheating is getting it elsewhere in your own without your spouses knowledge or consent.

They are two different concepts and everyone is trying to tie them in together.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> ...... Now is she curious and intrigued by the idea of having sexual experiences with other men and women? Yes she is. That is why she brought up the idea.
> 
> But swinging is exploring sexuality within the marriage with your spouse as part of the marital dynamic.
> 
> ...


Spot on!

We joined on a Swinger site. and after a bit if digging I found that she only looked at female profiles. So when this started I felt like my marriage was over, Now Im actually excited about this new chapter.
Again after talking to her, she is definitely not interested in what they call a full swap (Yes I did my research). So yes, I feel like a lucky man. I believe it is most guys fantasies to see there wife getting down with another woman. 

And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... How many relationships get torn apart by affairs? And in a way this is like child psychology, If you offer a kid all the chocolate he can eat, he does not want it.


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## Anthony Wellers (Jul 29, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Hey Guys.
> I am going to try and keep it short.
> History: Me and my Wife are married for 7 years now, but have been together for 12 years. Since High School. We have 3 kids, marriage is great and sex was about average.
> 
> ...


Just gonna put my tuppence-worth in here (without reading the rest of the thread too deeply).

Swinging parties and "exploring having sex with other men/women" might seem exciting and appealing, but once you open that little Pandora's Box, their can be unexpected repercussions that can hang around for a very long time.

I'm reminded of that scene from Indecent Proposal, where Woody Harrelson thought he could deal, but then certain things - the fountain shooting up - brought all kinds of things into his head, and their relationship was wrecked.

Someone mentioned in another post about oxytocins being transferred during sex, which act on the brain and can strengthen an emotional bond between those involved. Getting these mixed up with another guy's or woman's isn't really something you want.

If you really think that you both have the mental fortitude and strength of will to go down the path of sharing each other with other partners and still staying devoted to each other, then good luck to you. 

If you are concerned about your sex life becoming a bit dull, there are alternatives to swinging that don't involve other people that can spice it up a bit. A whole lot actually - role-play, bondage and S&M, dogging (with your own partner, I would avoid swingers dogging sites), "dirty weekends"....


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It’s always amusing to watch the Cuckold Caucus downplay and minimize red flags.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Spot on!
> 
> We joined on a Swinger site. and after a bit if digging I found that she only looked at female profiles. So when this started I felt like my marriage was over, Now Im actually excited about this new chapter.
> Again after talking to her, she is definitely not interested in what they call a full swap (Yes I did my research). So yes, I feel like a lucky man. I believe it is most guys fantasies to see there wife getting down with another woman.
> ...


I will correct on that last point.

As I have been saying throughout this thread, swinging and cheating are not interconnected.

Swinging does NOT prevent cheating. Swinging does not prevent cheating any more than monogamy prevents it.

Cheating is a character issue and is about selfishness and not following the agreed upon rules. 

Cheating occurs in swinging relationships just as it does in monogamous ones.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Thank you so much for all the answers.
> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.
> 
> I also showed her an add of a Swinger Party" but she only replied that she is over it and after thinking it through it scares her. She confirmed that her initial proposal of a threesome would be with another girl. She then asked me about other methods to spice things up, like BDSM etc.
> ...


This little detail makes a difference. She had a fleeting thought and claims it is over now. Perhaps your W looking into (porn) and decided that yeah, this ain't for her. You are "safe"....

What do I mean by safe? Your W trusts you in all aspects including the bedroom. In as such you are just about free to do anything sexually with your W(one on one of course). As a result....you can now really spice up the bedroom.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> It’s always amusing to watch the Cuckold Caucus downplay and minimize red flags.


And it's almost incomprehensible to me to watch grown, seemingly heterosexual men flake out and run for the hills when some guy's wife wants to have a 3way with another woman. Are men so afraid of their wife's sexuality that they will turn down having a 3way with two women???

Did you even read exploring's posts? His wife wants him bang other chicks with her. 

That's as far from cuckoldry as you can get.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> And it's almost incomprehensible to me to watch grown, seemingly heterosexual men flake out and run for the hills when some guy's wife wants to have a 3way with another woman. Are men so afraid of their wife's sexuality that they will turn down having a 3way with two women???
> 
> Did you even read exploring's posts? His wife wants him bang other chicks with her.
> 
> That's as far from cuckoldry as you can get.


LOL...

So I guess the sudden shift in their conversation really did just fly right past you.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Spot on!
> 
> We joined on a Swinger site. and after a bit if digging I found that she only looked at female profiles. So when this started I felt like my marriage was over, Now Im actually excited about this new chapter.
> Again after talking to her, she is definitely not interested in what they call a full swap (Yes I did my research). So yes, I feel like a lucky man. I believe it is most guys fantasies to see there wife getting down with another woman.
> ...


LOL...

Bait and switch.

You’ll see.

Eventually, anyway.


----------



## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Her Reason was that we have been together since school and she is scared that our sex life would become boring.
> She also said that she have never been with anyone else but me... and that she cant help to wonder about other possibilities. She assured me that she is still inlove with me and that she does not want leave me but just want to explore our sexuality, and because I am the jealous type she feels trapped sometimes.


You are being played. No one suggests a threesome because they are scared sex will become boring. She is suggesting it because she is already bored. She says she is still in love with you and does not want to leave - that is because she has not found a replacement yet.

Your wife is looking for an affair and she wants you blessing on it while she continues her comfortable life.

A threesome or swinging would be the end of your marriage, but frankly, I think she has one foot out the door.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> And it's almost incomprehensible to me to watch grown, seemingly heterosexual men flake out and run for the hills when some guy's wife wants to have a 3way with another woman. Are men so afraid of their wife's sexuality that they will turn down having a 3way with two women???
> 
> Did you even read exploring's posts? His wife wants him bang other chicks with her.
> 
> That's as far from cuckoldry as you can get.


If you don't think this is a stepping stone to MMF I don't know what to tell you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL...
> 
> Bait and switch.
> 
> ...


Truth....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> If you don't think this is a stepping stone to MMF I don't know what to tell you.


Oh my God!! Do you mean that that after having FMF
s for awhile she may want an MFM???

Oh the horrors!!!!!!!!!! 

The sky really is falling!!!!!!! :-O


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It's been about 9 years since our last MFM. When should I be expecting all these disasters and karnage to occur?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Oh my God!! Do you mean that that after having FMF
> s for awhile she may want an MFM???
> 
> Oh the horrors!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


For some, yes the horrors. You take this much to lightly. Not all are oldshirts.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> It's been about 9 years since our last MFM. When should I be expecting all these disasters and karma he to occur?


Not all are oldshirts.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Oh my God!! Do you mean that that after having FMF
> s for awhile she may want an MFM???
> 
> Oh the horrors!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


Swinging is far outside the bounds of most people's comfort levels. Sex is loaded with emotions, and there's plenty of ways bringing someone else into the marriage can cause major issues. Even if the OP is excited that his W wants to bring another woman into the bedroom, there's no telling how his W will really react. I seem to recall stories where the W freaks out when they see their man getting turned on by another woman. So the whole thing can be a dangerous minefield.

I know swinging works for some people, but that is probably because you're only seeing the success stories. All the people who tried it and it blew up their relationship probably don't stay in the lifestyle. I'm sure it works for some, but that doesn't mean it will work for all. But I am sure that not everyone should try it, because some people will react very, very badly. And they may not really know how they'll react until it's too late.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> This post is spot on folks and this is why I, as an experienced swinger, am not hearing any alarm bells going off or seeing any red flags that scream infidelity.
> 
> People are trying to tie this in to his wife cheating and there simply isn't anything this far that is a warning sign for cheating.
> 
> ...


Right, but didn't she start out this convo by implying (or saying directly) that she was wondering what it would be like to be with someone else?

When he said he wasn't too interested (or whatever he said), this 3rd person suddenly became a woman.

He already has experience with other women. It's her that's only ever been with one person - him.

So unless she wants to explore her sexuality - with another woman - it kind of sounds like she was covering a little bit, no?

I also think that - even if it's all above board, which OP seems to think it is - she STILL wants to try out another guy. Doing it with his knowledge, and him being present - is it still not the same thing? She wants to see what it's like to have another penis, plain and simple.

I mean, sure, it's "better" that she came to him about this, I GUESS. But the bottom line, the lowest common denominator, is that she wants another penis, to see "what it's like", and would prefer not to cheat to do so.

So the base question is - is OP okay with this? If yes, then go for it, and best of luck.

However, in his first post, he stated that he's the jealous type. Sooo... :|


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> Not all are oldshirts.


I'll drop the sarcasm and be sincere.

I understand that most couples are not going to want to have others in their marital bed at all.

Truth be told my wife and I ourselves are 99% vanilla the last few years and I am more of an armchair swinger and Monday Morning Quarterback these days. 

I realize most men would rather stick sharp objects in the eyes rather than participate in an MFM with their partner. I've done and it was fine but it's not really my thang either. 

If someone does not want to do an MFM, then simply don't do it.

What makes me roll my eyes and shake my head is the abject terror that some of the posters have had and the charges of bait and switch and the evil plotting of seducing some poor chump into an MFM by doing FMF's.

I don't know whether to just laugh or really be concerned with how much fear men have of female sexuality and be concerned with how fearful and insecure grown men really are.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now to be open and honest, I do not have any less fear or any less insecurity or distrust than anyone else here.

My wife is a beautiful and sexy woman with a powerful sexuality and she could screw around behind my back in a heartbeat and she could find someone better than me and pack up and leave me in a day.

Don't think that I do not fear those things any less than any of you. 

I do not lack fear. I have simply made a conscious choice that I would not let my fear govern my actions or keep me from perusing what I wanted to do.

I wanted to experience group sex and FMF's and did not want to go the next 40 or 50 years of my life with only one sex partner. I assumed she felt the same in some regards so I broached the topic and I was correct about her interests.

Yes I was scared. Yes I worried about her falling for someone better looking or more hung than me.

But she could have done those things just as easily with someone at work or from the gym if we had remained a monogamous couple.

I chose to shoot for the moon and not let my fears and insecurities hold me back.

....and the moon was awesome for us!!!


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I just came across this - about opening the marriage: https://www.popsugar.com/love/What-Consider-Before-Having-Open-Marriage-43629759

I have many friends who are open relationship types. IMHO, its easier when you're younger/nokids/not actually married. We've done it. Still have our kinks and more kinks to try out that doesn't involve others.
I've seed you've replied that she is scared to try that. This is a good thing as well. 

It's not something to take lightly. Another option - that is easier, safer - is that both of you go to a strip club and pay for lap-dances for each of you. That will also make things exciting and there is no actual sex.

Your jealousy issues would likely be a problem - but having a threesome with two women - fun. Is your wife bisexual? Maybe bi-curious?
If you both ever go that route - I would recommend its something you only SHARE together.

It is a rabbit hole, and even those who have a VERY GOOD understanding of Open Relationships can still end up cheating/get cheated on. My wife had severely damaged our relationship two years ago. Actually - she destroyed it by cheating and lying. We're still trying to pick up the pieces. We have many improvements in our relationship. But a LOT OF BAD things happened. I'm still very hurt of her actions. We have a ways to go. It'll never be the same again, I very much hope and want us to be happy together.

It was not the sex with others that was a problem - it was when she started lying and doing things behind my back. It took a few months for things to turn into an affair - it was about 6 weeks before IT was confirmed and all hell broke out. It took about 6 months of throwing her out / leaving / fights to even start therapy together.

By the way. Anyone can cheat at any time - even you. It doesn't need to be an agreed open marriage. And that your wife has been thinking about sharing herself with someone else (with you still) is there. Maybe it will just stay a fantasy? I can tell you this, cheating and breaking up a family is about the most painful thing you or she can experience. I've broken some bones in my body. Whatever. It doesn't compare to a broken heart.

Perhaps look into other KINKY things... BDSM. Watch the (puke) 50 shades of Grey together. You can tie someone up - without hurting them. Do role playing. Do some landscaping down there. etc.

Good luck!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> What makes me roll my eyes and shake my head is the abject terror that some of the posters have had and the charges of bait and switch and the evil plotting of seducing some poor chump into an MFM by doing FMF's.
> 
> I don't know whether to just laugh or really be concerned with how much fear men have of female sexuality and be concerned with how fearful and insecure grown men really are.


You can't say any more for certain if this will be the case or not.

Personally, I think there's a pretty solid chance the subject of an MFM will come up at some point.

The red flags you are poo-pooing for some reason are there. She has never been with anyone other than her husband. If all she wants is to try it with another woman - okay, I can buy that, it's definitely possible. She could also be very much intrigued by the thought of watching her husband with another woman - also possible,

But if you really don't think at some point, she will want to try another man, I don't know what to tell you. She's only ever been with him. It's not a given, but given the circumstances, you have to agree that it's likely.

The second red flag is that OP came right out and said he has jealousy issues (like many of us) and that he doesn't separate love from sex.

Honestly, this skews towards "bad idea", IMO, and other people seem to see this, too.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I'll drop the sarcasm and be sincere.
> 
> I understand that most couples are not going to want to have others in their marital bed at all.
> 
> ...


I don't believe the it concerns fear of female sexuality. First, why a woman to experience as the OP W stated? Is she bi-sexual? Second, OP W said she has not been with any other men. Then why did she state it would be a female? The math does not add up. In fact, it looks like common core math. The make no sense. OP W wants to have sex with another man. Where did the woman come into play? For me, the introduction of a female and not a male was a throwing off the trail tactic.


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Hey Guys.
> Her Reason was that we have been together since school and she is scared that our sex life would become boring.


Sorry you are in this situation OP, but that is the biggest load of malarkey I've ever heard. Noone suggests this based on future possibility of something getting bad. If anything, she's already finding it stale. Can't you just tell her, thanks for the concerns babe, let's deal with it if that ever happens. I would take her more seriously if she told me that it is her fantasy and she wants to try it out.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> My problem is that Im an emotional person that cant separate sex from love making. I would like to explore "the lifestyle", but just cant get over my jealousy issues.


This is why I say be careful. All the research in the world will not change this feeling at all. Oh and make sure you understand, even though some laughed, men have left their wives for other men and vice versa. The fact you brought up safe means you better research some more and I'm not talking "yes, she didn't look at men."


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

alexm said:


> Right, but didn't she start out this convo by implying (or saying directly) that she was wondering what it would be like to be with someone else?
> 
> When he said he wasn't too interested (or whatever he said), this 3rd person suddenly became a woman.
> 
> ...


No.

Not only do I not think it sounds suspicious or subversive, I think it's perfectly logical and makes perfect sense.

Last summer I wanted to go to Hawaii for our summer family vacation and I approached my wife about it. 

She was very apprehensive and concerned about the costs and the travel logistics etc etc

So I went back to the drawing boards and the maps and came back with an offer to go to Florida instead and we had a great time in Panama City Beach.

Same principle here. He scoffed and was apprehensive about her first idea so she stepped back and made another offer that was more interesting to him.

It's called negotiation and cooperation and compromise etc etc.

Isn't that how all couples are suppose to approach pretty much everything?

Thinking she has some diabolical plot is why I said that people were seeing demons and goblins and boogeymen behind every shadow here.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> I don't believe the it concerns fear of female sexuality. First, why a woman to experience as the OP W stated? Is she bi-sexual? Second, OP W said she has not been with any other men. Then why did she state it would be a female? The math does not add up. In fact, it looks like common core math. The make no sense. OP W wants to have sex with another man. Where did the woman come into play? For me, the introduction of a female and not a male was a throwing off the trail tactic.


See post # 82 where I address that.

Yes, she was open about her curiosity about other men. She was honest about that and she out it out on the table.

He scoffed at that and so she compromised and made another offer that he may find more appealing.

Couples do that about every day in one way or another.....or at least they should.

I see no foul here. She stated her wishes and made her offers.

He has agency. He can say no or he can negotiate other counter offers.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> No.
> 
> Not only do I not think it sounds suspicious or subversive, I think it's perfectly logical and makes perfect sense.
> 
> ...


Exactly.... 
Facts are
1.) She spoke to me about it, asked my opinion. 
2.) Since we see each other 99% of the time, Cheating is not an option. I would immediately know about it. 
3.) Like Mr OldShirt were saying, She understood that it is not something im in to or at least at this stage and we compromised. 
4.) There has never been any suspicion of cheating, and me being the jealous type, and sort of IT Expert, I know for a fact that there is no emails, social media chat etc to raise even an orange flag.
5.) Check my 1st post, She said:


> "She also said that she have never been with anyone else but me... and that she cant help to wonder about other possibilities. "


 Turns out "Possibilities" meant exploring with other woman


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@alexm : what is that word you are using that is being censored? **** test? Can you type in "sounds like" and first and last letters please? I get it, its a test to see if someone is willing to cheat.

My wife did that about 6 months in... Some "woman" started chatting to me online about wanting to meet new people, etc. I talked about my wife - and that if we were to meet, my wife would be with me, etc...

I think it was many months later she admitted it was her. Then years later, a relative of her's cheats on his wife - and she's mad about that. Then months later - she cheats on me. Go figure... right?


----------



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

TaDor said:


> I just came across this - about opening the marriage:
> 
> I have many friends who are open relationship types. IMHO, its easier when you're younger/nokids/not actually married. We've done it. Still have our kinks and more kinks to try out that doesn't involve others.
> I've seed you've replied that she is scared to try that. This is a good thing as well.
> ...





> Perhaps look into other KINKY things... BDSM. Watch the (puke) 50 shades of Grey together. You can tie someone up - without hurting them. Do role playing. Do some landscaping down there. etc.


This is exactly what we compromised to. And we are both happy about it. 
If it ever comes up again we will deal with it then. But at least I now know that she will talk to me about it.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@Exploring : After reading these posts and how women are (in general)...

Check your phone records - see who she is texting too. See if there are any UNKNOWN numbers that happen a lot. Not saying she *IS* cheating. But you may want to keep your ears & eyes open and your mouth shut. Every 6~12 months, check phone records or look on her phone. Also be aware of cheater apps... Snap Chat is one - its popular for innocent uses too thou. If you see a lot of texts to a number that is NOT you or her family, note it.

The idea of doing a threesome will likely come up again.

Hey, I can understand her or anyone's point of view if they said "I only had one sex partner my whole life". I've told young adult men and women to play the field before settling down. I've been thanked by them years later.


----------



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

TaDor said:


> @Exploring : After reading these posts and how women are (in general)...
> 
> Check your phone records - see who she is texting too. See if there are any UNKNOWN numbers that happen a lot. Not saying she *IS* cheating. But you may want to keep your ears & eyes open and your mouth shut. Every 6~12 months, check phone records or look on her phone. Also be aware of cheater apps... Snap Chat is one - its popular for innocent uses too thou. If you see a lot of texts to a number that is NOT you or her family, note it.
> 
> ...





> Facts are
> 1.) She spoke to me about it, asked my opinion.
> 2.) Since we see each other 99% of the time, Cheating is not an option. I would immediately know about it.
> 3.) Like Mr OldShirt were saying, She understood that it is not something im in to or at least at this stage and we compromised.
> 4.) There has never been any suspicion of cheating, and me being the jealous type, and sort of IT Expert, I know for a fact that there is no emails, social media chat etc to raise even an orange flag.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> See post # 82 where I address that.
> 
> Yes, she was open about her curiosity about other men. She was honest about that and she out it out on the table.
> 
> ...


No couples I know make offers and counter offers to go bang others out of curiosity. We are not talking about a color of a new car that is about to be purchased. This can be a life changing events. Either good or bad. 

Again, the W is playing and bargaining to be with a man IMO.


----------



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> No couples I know make offers and counter offers to go bang others out of curiosity. We are not talking about a color of a new car that is about to be purchased. This can be a life changing events. Either good or bad.
> 
> Again, the W is playing and bargaining to be with a man IMO.


She never said curious about other *"men"*



> Again, the W is playing and bargaining to be with a man IMO


I would agree if there was ANY other sort or issues in our marriage. She can be "one foot out of the door" and be or even pretend to be happy all of the time. WOuldnt you agree?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> No.
> 
> Not only do I not think it sounds suspicious or subversive, I think it's perfectly logical and makes perfect sense.
> 
> ...


How does discussing a vacation location compare to letting some guy take ones W and have his way with her. Cooperation and compromise? Yes on a house, car or vacation. Not banging away some one else. I don't see the comparison. 

I stated this before and I will state it again. You are taking this too lightly.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TaDor said:


> @alexm : what is that word you are using that is being censored? **** test? Can you type in "sounds like" and first and last letters please? I get it, its a test to see if someone is willing to cheat.
> 
> My wife did that about 6 months in... Some "woman" started chatting to me online about wanting to meet new people, etc. I talked about my wife - and that if we were to meet, my wife would be with me, etc...
> 
> I think it was many months later she admitted it was her. Then years later, a relative of her's cheats on his wife - and she's mad about that. Then months later - she cheats on me. Go figure... right?


"poop"


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> She never said curious about other *"men"*
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree if there was ANY other sort or issues in our marriage. She can be "one foot out of the door" and be or even pretend to be happy all of the time. WOuldnt you agree?


Word games. Your first post, your W stated she has never been with anyone else. Your first thought was obviously another man. Correct? Your W sees the reaction and changed the tune to another woman. 

Why then is your W now curious about a woman sexually?


----------



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> Word games. Your first post, your W stated she has never been with anyone else. Your first thought was obviously another man. Correct? Your W sees the reaction and changed the tune to another woman.
> 
> Why then is your W now curious about a woman sexually?


Since we met in high school, she could appreciate a beautiful woman. Not to say she wants to jump in bed with her, but she will acknowledge a good body. 
So I think I can label her bi-curious which is not a shocker. But its still a bit far fetched to be as certain as you are that she is plotting something bad.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Since we met in high school, she could appreciate a beautiful woman. Not to say she wants to jump in bed with her, but she will acknowledge a good body.
> So I think I can label her bi-curious which is not a shocker. But its still a bit far fetched to be as certain as you are that she is plotting something bad.


You are now rationalizing because your W would acknowledge a good body. Everyone does that either verbally or mentally. However, not many approach a spouse and discuss an open marriage/swinger out of the blue. What precipitated this?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> No couples I know make offers and counter offers to go bang others out of curiosity. We are not talking about a color of a new car that is about to be purchased. This can be a life changing events. Either good or bad.
> 
> .


That's the difference between you and me then because I see no distinction.

All couples must establish a method of reaching agreements and working together whether it is deciding which flavor of ice cream to share at Baskin Robbins, buying a car, signing a home mortgage or whether they will have a traditional monogamous marriage or be open for considering playing with others.

I see no distinction.


----------



## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> You are now rationalizing because your W would acknowledge a good body. Everyone does that either verbally or mentally. However, not many approach a spouse and discuss an open marriage/swinger out of the blue. What precipitated this?


The last year or so 3 couples that we know got divorced because of cheating. 
So how I understand it now is that her train of thought was...
Proposing that if I feel the urge to bang someone else, We must discuss it and then decide what to do. Rather then me or her sneaking around behind each others backs with an affair.

Im not saying its correct but in our situation it makes sense. Like I mentioned a couple of times. We are happy. Sex is great. Sex is now even better. 
I dont want to be caught up in paranoia because this could just as easily break up a marriage. 

and again, If she was cheating or trying to I would know about it


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> That's the difference between you and me then because I see no distinction.
> 
> All couples must establish a method of reaching agreements and working together whether it is deciding which flavor of ice cream to share at Baskin Robbins, buying a car, signing a home mortgage or whether they will have a traditional monogamous marriage or be open for considering playing with others.
> 
> I see no distinction.


Seeing as this is an advice board, you have to realize that your viewpoint is not typical of most married couples. So when you advise a course of action which is dependent on having your particular viewpoint, that could backfire in a lot of marriages because most people don't view it the same way.

In most marriages, bringing up 3-somes or swinging would cause major issues. It's no where near the same thing as deciding ice cream flavor or a new car. In most marriages, spouses have the implicit understanding that there will not be any other intimate relationships. If one spouse brings up the idea of another sex partner, it's most likely going to come as a shock to the other spouse. It's going to be an indication that one of vows of their marriage (forsaking all others) is not taken as seriously by the other spouse.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> The last year or so 3 couples that we know got divorced because of cheating.
> So how I understand it now is that her train of thought was...
> Proposing that if I feel the urge to bang someone else, We must discuss it and then decide what to do. Rather then me or her sneaking around behind each others backs with an affair.
> 
> ...


If I may ask, does your W still spend time with these folks that cheated? Would any be toxic to your marriage? In other words, is your W being fed that the single life is awesome? Meeting lots of men, etc? 

The sex may be better now after the talking because your W now has a perhaps a new found respect for you? Specifically when you were not game with a threesome of any kind? In short, your W see you do love and respect her. Now there is a new found love for your and hysterical bonding as a result. 

Just trying to see all corners of this. Truth be told, not sure how I would handle it if my W approached me with this. I can certainly say I'm not game with any of it.

Don't be so certain about the cheating. Some are damn clever about it and it goes on for years right under our noses.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> If I may ask, does your W still spend time with these folks that cheated? Would any be toxic to your marriage? In other words, is your W being fed that the single life is awesome? Meeting lots of men, etc?
> 
> The sex may be better now after the talking because your W now has a perhaps a new found respect for you? Specifically when you were not game with a threesome of any kind? In short, your W see you do love and respect her. Now there is a new found love for your and hysterical bonding as a result.
> 
> ...





> If I may ask, does your W still spend time with these folks that cheated? Would any be toxic to your marriage? In other words, is your W being fed that the single life is awesome? Meeting lots of men, etc?


Nooo not at all, not even talking.



> Just trying to see all corners of this. Truth be told, not sure how I would handle it if my W approached me with this. I can certainly say I'm not game with any of it.


Yeah its so hard for me to explain to you guys exactly how it happened. I can show or describe any emotions, expressions etc that plays a big part in these kind of conversations



> Don't be so certain about the cheating. Some are damn clever about it and it goes on for years right under our noses.


If she can have a full blown affair, even an EA the +/- 60 min we are apart per week. Well I guess then she deserves it haha

And its not only the sex that got better, even our relationship. We are like horney teenagers that can get enough of each other. Physically and emotionally. 
@Yeswecan 
Thank you for taking time to post, Even after arguing with you I am no more sure about my marriage

Really appreciate all the advise given.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

> Facts are
> 1.) She spoke to me about it, asked my opinion.
> 2.) Since we see each other 99% of the time, Cheating is not an option. I would immediately know about it.
> 3.) Like Mr OldShirt were saying, She understood that it is not something im in to or at least at this stage and we compromised.
> 4.) There has never been any suspicion of cheating, and me being the jealous type, and sort of IT Expert, I know for a fact that there is no emails, social media chat etc to raise even an orange flag.


I am aware of what you said earlier. So, you two will be spending 99% of the time with each other every day until you die or something?

I was posting as to possibilities in the future... 3 ~ 6 years from now... who knows.

#4 gives you the best possibility of finding something if something changes in the future.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

TaDor said:


> I am aware of what you said earlier. So, you two will be spending 99% of the time with each other every day until you die or something?
> 
> I was posting as to possibilities in the future... 3 ~ 6 years from now... who knows.
> 
> #4 gives you the best possibility of finding something if something changes in the future.


Well something I also learned the last couple of days is that spending time apart is very good for our marriage. Something to work on.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Exploring said:


> Exactly....
> Facts are
> 1.) She spoke to me about it, asked my opinion.
> 2.) Since we see each other 99% of the time, Cheating is not an option. I would immediately know about it.
> ...


Point #2 is not true. This might give you comfort to say. There haven been many bs’s that had thought the same. 

I am not saying your wife is cheating, just a possibility. I have read to many threads not to think this. Several where the wife starts the tread so she can justify her point. One where she asked her husband to open up the relationship like this and he said no. She turned around and started cheating on him and posted about it. Another was already in an emotional affair and wanted it to go physical, she ask her husband the same thing your wife did in your first post almost word for word. He agreed after a little bit and they had a threesome with this guy. The husband ended up being ignored and he finally left the house during the threesome and was never missed til the next morning. Marriage destroyed. 

Again not saying she is. Just be open to the possibility.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

alexm said:


> You can't say any more for certain if this will be the case or not.
> 
> Personally, I think there's a pretty solid chance the subject of an MFM will come up at some point.
> 
> ...


I don't know why people keep saying she will one day bring up an MFM or want to involve a man like it's some kind of key to a great mystery or some kind of secret code that's been unlocked, or like you think that I don't know that.

If they do happen to become involved in swinging, I can pretty much guarantee that it WILL come up. I'd bet my last dollar in that. That is not a mystery or some dark secret here.

If she wants to broach that topic she will and if he is willing to discuss it at that time, they can. And if he doesn't want to do that, he doesn't have to.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Exploring said:


> Nooo not at all, not even talking.
> 
> 
> Yeah its so hard for me to explain to you guys exactly how it happened. I can show or describe any emotions, expressions etc that plays a big part in these kind of conversations
> ...


The interesting thing is that pretty much everyone has advised you against this, more or less - save for one poster. And from that point, you've decided this is all okay, and that you'll (probably) do it. Not only that, but you've become defensive when others keep bringing up valid points.

So you have ~10 people saying "bad idea" or "sounds fishy" or at least "proceed with extreme caution" vs. one guy who says "go for it!".

With all due respect, this very much seems like it's exactly what you were looking for. One person to give you the okay.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

alexm said:


> The interesting thing is that pretty much everyone has advised you against this, more or less - save for one poster. And from that point, you've decided this is all okay, and that you'll (probably) do it. Not only that, but you've become defensive when others keep bringing up valid points.
> 
> So you have ~10 people saying "bad idea" or "sounds fishy" or at least "proceed with extreme caution" vs. one guy who says "go for it!".
> 
> With all due respect, this very much seems like it's exactly what you were looking for. One person to give you the okay.


 @alexm 

I can type a single 10 page post, And I still wont be able to post every detail accurately. So I am taking all the other elements like attitude, body language, the fact that I know my wife almost better then she knows herself into consideration. And actually between a couple of different opinions I got my answer. 

Its like most of you just does not want to accept the fact that it is NOT THAT BAD! I dint know what more to say, it is what it is, and Im happy with it. So sorry to say but you wont get any more conspiracy theories or drama from me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know why people keep saying she will one day bring up an MFM or want to involve a man like it's some kind of key to a great mystery or some kind of secret code that's been unlocked, or like you think that I don't know that.


She might not, but the very real likelihood is that she will.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say that the VAST majority of people who engage in this lifestyle have had more than one sexual partner prior to.

It's hard to fathom that a woman who has only ever been with one man, and who is more than willing to allow this man to have sex with another woman - while present, and involved - will not raise the possibility of her wanting to try another man, herself.

It's wouldn't necessarily be out of jealousy - it would be about opening that box, and for her to experience somebody else, the way her husband is. It's only "fair", and frankly, this is exactly the way I'd see it, if I were in that boat, and most others would as well. It's human nature.

The very real slippery slope that OP might have to face if he engages in this, is that his wife may not see the logic behind him being totally okay with a FMF and not an MFM. Even if he plainly states "never going to happen" before anything else does, it's very likely that, in the back of her mind, there will be a tiny bit of resentment at this. Especially after it happens, and even more so if it becomes a regular thing.

FWIW, not many people here, myself included, are saying "don't do this". Personally, I just think OP went from 0-60 (maybe 10-60) very quickly.

This is common on message boards, especially this one, where somebody comes in looking for validation on a subject. As I said in my other post, the responses are 10-1 against (at least), but OP seems to have taken that one and ran with it, so it seems that he heard what he wanted to hear in the first place.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

alexm said:


> She might not, but the very real likelihood is that she will.
> 
> I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say that the VAST majority of people who engage in this lifestyle have had more than one sexual partner prior to.
> 
> ...


With all respect, Do you have any idea how many fears have awaken in me since I started this post. Paranoia I picked up here almost caused more problems then my original question. And another problem is people dont read all my updates. They see the first post, and the deliver an opinion. 

Can I close this threat?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Exploring said:


> @alexm
> 
> I can type a single 10 page post, And I still wont be able to post every detail accurately. So I am taking all the other elements like attitude, body language, the fact that I know my wife almost better then she knows herself into consideration. And actually between a couple of different opinions I got my answer.
> 
> Its like most of you just does not want to accept the fact that it is NOT THAT BAD! I dint know what more to say, it is what it is, and Im happy with it. So sorry to say but you wont get any more conspiracy theories or drama from me.


I'm just calling it how I see it 

If oldshirt hadn't chimed in with the positives about this, you probably wouldn't have arrived at the "not that bad" conclusion on your own. Your thread is called "should I be worried". Numerous people basically said "yes". One did not.

If you throw out all the opinions of people who have NOT experienced this lifestyle, who chimed in in this thread, that leaves you with two opinions from people who have, by my count. One is for, one is not.

I'm merely stating that one person, and one person only, who has chimed in with their opinion on this matter is positive on the subject.

When it gets right down to it, this is an anonymous forum. Somebody comes asking for advice, and it's given. Usually based on experience, often based on our own personal beliefs and morals. But always biased in some way.

Anybody can seek advice on any kind of forum for any topic. The best rule of thumb to live by when doing so is to go with the majority answer - if one is truly seeking advice, and not justification or validation for something they're already thinking.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

alexm said:


> I'm just calling it how I see it
> 
> If oldshirt hadn't chimed in with the positives about this, you probably wouldn't have arrived at the "not that bad" conclusion on your own. Your thread is called "should I be worried". Numerous people basically said "yes". One did not.
> 
> ...


Oldshirt's post did not even help as much as you would like to believe. But more time, and conversations with my wife let to my answer. Oldshirt just helped me to realize that even swinging is not created by the devil, and can actually be fun if done correctly. Please I dont want to get into it now.

Most of these posts helped me to appreciate my wife more. From the general consensus of the topic is that most woman are liars and cheaters with diabolical minds! So yes I appreciate my wife more!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Exploring said:


> Oldshirt's post did not even help as much as you would like to believe. But more time, and conversations with my wife let to my answer. Oldshirt just helped me to realize that even swinging is not created by the devil, and can actually be fun if done correctly. Please I dont want to get into it now.
> 
> Most of these posts helped me to appreciate my wife more. From the general consensus of the topic is that most woman are liars and cheaters with diabolical minds! So yes I appreciate my wife more!


She is communicating with you and that is a significant/ solid foundation for any marriage.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> She is communicating with you and that is a significant/ solid foundation for any marriage.


Thank you.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I sincerely hope you've got the unicorn you think you have there, but I expect you've got a hard, painful lesson coming your way.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Nooo not at all, not even talking.
> 
> 
> Yeah its so hard for me to explain to you guys exactly how it happened. I can show or describe any emotions, expressions etc that plays a big part in these kind of conversations
> ...


Like to look at it from all angles. My W and I(mostly me) had a revelation with our marriage. After all was on the table(everything we felt,etc) it was bliss and still is. The sex got crazy(hysterical bonding). Still do. New found respect and love as the reason. Appears you and your W are doing the same. 

Keep us posted.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Some thoughts. First, sexuality doesn't have to be the secret, shameful thing many Americans make it out to be. Just watch any of the sex shows on HBO. There's a thriving world out there of people who enjoy it, share it, and get along. 

Second, doing so brings with it a host of dangers - mostly psychological. If you're not up to speed on psychology, I suggest you get so asap. The fact that she's never had another partner. The fact that she's at the typical age at which women start wondering is that all there is and start feeling they don't have to be mommy's little girl anymore. The fact that she's at the age where she wants to be open and honest about her sexuality (typical at her age) and it's already got you worrying. The fact that you're insecure (jealous), which is almost guaranteed to have taught her to not be 100% honest with you. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Third, if you two are nearly 100% honest with each other and communicate honestly all the time, you have a chance of staying married. But if either of you isn't sharing your real feelings or secrets, bringing a third person in is a recipe for disaster. 

Fourth, get the book His Needs Her Needs and start reading it together. If you follow its tenets, you'll have a healthy marriage.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Exploring said:


> Most of these posts helped me to appreciate my wife more. From the general consensus of the topic is that most woman are liars and cheaters with diabolical minds! So yes I appreciate my wife more!


That is a revelation in itself. As I stated above, I had my revelation in my marriage. Took it to a new level. Really drove home what respect is and how much I have for my W. I appreciate the hell out of my W and have no issue showing it every day. 

As you stated though, you are communicating with your W now. On a totally different level! I believe as a result you will not look to consider what your W has proposed in your first post. You have something special. Why look to ruin that new special bond?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Exploring said:


> Oldshirt's post did not even help as much as you would like to believe. But more time, and conversations with my wife let to my answer. Oldshirt just helped me to realize that even swinging is not created by the devil, and can actually be fun if done correctly. Please I dont want to get into it now.


If I did what you say above, then I have accomplished what I hoped to do.

My message and reccommendation all along has been to research it, learn about it, be knowledgable and aware of the hazards and pitfalls.... And most importantly, communicate extensively and deeply with your wife about and each of you have firm boundaries.

I have never once said to throw caution to the wind and go for it.

My message from my first post has been educate yourself and not let fear determine your actions either way. 

I HAVE read all your posts and I believe you are approaching this in a sane and balanced manner. You are not jumping to any wild conclusions or taking any rash actions either way and that is good. 

Approach this from a methodical, mindful and rational manner based on facts and realities and make conscious decisions whichever way you choose to go.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

turnera said:


> Some thoughts. First, sexuality doesn't have to be the secret, shameful thing many Americans make it out to be. Just watch any of the sex shows on HBO. There's a thriving world out there of people who enjoy it, share it, and get along.
> 
> Second, doing so brings with it a host of dangers - mostly psychological. If you're not up to speed on psychology, I suggest you get so asap. The fact that she's never had another partner. The fact that she's at the typical age at which women start wondering is that all there is and start feeling they don't have to be mommy's little girl anymore. The fact that she's at the age where she wants to be open and honest about her sexuality (typical at her age) and it's already got you worrying. The fact that you're insecure (jealous), which is almost guaranteed to have taught her to not be 100% honest with you. I could go on, but you get the idea.
> 
> ...




Very well said and I agree with everything above (although I'm not familiar with that book so I cannot comment on that)


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Exploring said:


> Oldshirt's post did not even help as much as you would like to believe. But more time, and conversations with my wife let to my answer. Oldshirt just helped me to realize that even swinging is not created by the devil, and can actually be fun if done correctly. Please I dont want to get into it now.
> 
> Most of these posts helped me to appreciate my wife more. From the general consensus of the topic is that most woman are liars and cheaters with diabolical minds! So yes I appreciate my wife more!


FYI, I'm actually totally for swinging. It's just not a reality in my life.

Again, if you can see through the few people who are anti-lifestyle, you'll see that the advice that is "negative" is based on real and apparent red flags - based upon what you said originally.

That's all. Things changed, it's all cool for you now. Good luck!


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> What makes me roll my eyes and shake my head is the abject terror that some of the posters have had and the charges of bait and switch and the evil plotting of seducing some poor chump into an MFM by doing FMF's.
> 
> I don't know whether to just laugh or really be concerned with how much fear men have of female sexuality and be concerned with how fearful and insecure grown men really are.



Lol, this thread tripped me out a little, too, starting off with people saying nooooooooo she's going to want another man. OP came back with she is into women and suddenly all that is a-okay. 

Why is this so trippy? Easy, I've heard of wives leaving their husbands for a woman. Why that possibility isn't on the table as much as "gateway" to a different c*ck is befuddles me.
That swinging lady may just be one helluva better muffdiver than the guys.


Outside the marriage is outside the marriage. Think with the proper head.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

VibrantWings said:


> Lol, this thread tripped me out a little, too, starting off with people saying nooooooooo she's going to want another man. OP came back with she is into women and suddenly all that is a-okay.
> 
> Why is this so trippy? Easy, I've heard of wives leaving their husbands for a woman. Why that possibility isn't on the table as much as "gateway" to a different **** is.
> That swinging lady may just be one helluva better muffdiver than the guys.
> ...


Suddenly is it not Ok. It brings up even more questions. W bi-sexual? Hidden all these years? What brought it up now? 

Swing all one likes. Swing both ways. The discussion at hand, what brought it on now? Much to discuss in the future for the OP with his W.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> Suddenly is it not Ok. It brings up even more questions. W bi-sexual? Hidden all these years? What brought it up now?
> 
> Swing all one likes. Swing both ways. The discussion at hand, what brought it on now? Much to discuss in the future for the OP with his W.



Totally agree....wanting to "stray" with one sex is no better than the other. The issue is still the same.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

Ok guys this will be my last post. Just an update.... After several long heart to heart conversations, It all came down to wanting to imporve our marriage. Even the sex that got bet was not that she was thinking about someone else, but her way of opening up and try to give me all the sex I need, however I need. 
She confessed to be really curious about woman, BUT she does want to try it completely WITH me. In our community this is a fantasy shared by allot of men, and she thought it would be nice for Me and Her to try something like that. But all is just talk and we will cross that bridge if we get there. \

What Ive learned and want to share with you all.

I know most people on this forum has been hurt, but not everything should be seen as a red flag. Something can be as simple as it is. You guys sent me down a rabit hole where I almost got a divorce lawyer on the phone, because from all of the post I was at a stage very concerned about an affair. 

This ultimately caused more damage, almost uncontrollable damage!

It had me snooping around and even though after everything I still have developed some kind of trust issues because of this post. Today she asked me if I would like it if she gets a boob job. And again I know most of you will say, red flag... she is doing it for someone else, But what if she has self esteem issues, what if she really just do it because she thinks i would like it. 
After discussing our issues, she even watched a 2 Hour documentary called "How to give perfect head" 

So please guys, forums might be easy to reach and convenient, but I will never recommend this to anyone again, Rather take extra time and go to couples counseling. OR post on the same forum together, none of this was actually helpful because it was all my thoughts, and nothing of what she felt was portrayed here. 

Hope this make sense. 

Cheers and enjoy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@Exploring you may be starting to explore some areas that are new to you, but I think you are approaching it the right way and are taking responsibility in learning what you can about it and especially in having the serious discussions and communication with your wife. 

Even if you never actually do anything with other people (which is perfectly fine) the value that comes from the deep, personal communication with your wife is priceless. 

As I said in my first post on this thread, This website and forum is largely geared towards traditional, monogamous marriage and many of the posters were initially brought here by infidelity in their marriage and anything that implies the least bit of interest outside of the normal bounds of traditional marriage is a trigger for them. 

This site is a great resource for people wanting to discuss issues that pertain to traditional monogamous marriage and unfortunately it is also a great resource for betrayed spouses needing support and advice on how to cope with their spouse's infidelity. 

But it is however a terrible resource for those interested in exploring nontraditional marriages and lifestyles. 

My advice in my very first post was to look into some swinger-specific sites like Swingersboard or other alternative lifestyle forums where you can ask questions and discuss topics with people that actually embrace those lifestyles and have real-world experience with it. 

I think you are intelligent and aware enough of the world to realize that if your wife wanted to cheat and set her mind to do so, she would not need to explore the swinging world in order to do so. All she would have to do is look out the window and the next guy walking his dog by the house, she could call him over and do the deed. She wouldn't need to go through the trouble of discussing it with you beforehand and getting your buy-in and seduce you with FMF 3ways and then work out some kind of conspiracy to introduce another man into the mix. If she wanted to cheat it would be simpler to simply open the door and invite the guy walking his dog inside while you were at the grocery store. 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said sometimes things are simple. I think she wants to explore some different sexual avenues INSIDE the marriage. That's fair. That is up for you to discuss and come to agreements about and establish boundaries as a married couple. 

Yes there are absolutely risks and hazards with that. Educate yourself and learn about those risks and learn how to avoid and prevent them and how to mitigate their impact if they do occur. 

I wish you well in your journey and hope you do come back and update us periodically. And you are also welcome to PM me if you ever want to discuss anything privately.


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## Exploring (Oct 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> @Exploring you may be starting to explore some areas that are new to you, but I think you are approaching it the right way and are taking responsibility in learning what you can about it and especially in having the serious discussions and communication with your wife.
> 
> Even if you never actually do anything with other people (which is perfectly fine) the value that comes from the deep, personal communication with your wife is priceless.
> 
> ...


 @oldshirt
Yes. I must really thank you the most. If your posts weren't in the mix I would probably have killed myself and all the guys my wife know.lol
You are really an asset to this community. Thank you for the offer and I will definitely contact you in the future for advice regarding this. You are open minded enough to understand what I/we are going through!
Again I can actually thank you for saving my marriage, in the sense that I did not go overboard paranoid suspecting the worst. Invasion of privacy is a really big issue, and could have cause massive damage.
I will give you guys an update!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Exploring, one more thought. All of this hand-wringing could have been avoided had you just gone to HER and asked her what was going on, and shared your fears. I'm glad it's working out. But try to work on the communication, for an even better marriage. One thing I often suggest is to have a monthly state-of-the-marriage meeting, where you both just discuss how things are going, things that are bothering you, things you're enjoying, stuff like that. Grease the wheels, so to speak. Oh, and get His Needs Her Needs and read it together - it will help you have the perfect marriage.

Good luck!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

turnera said:


> Exploring, one more thought. All of this hand-wringing could have been avoided had you just gone to HER and asked her what was going on, and shared your fears.


Your point(s) is completely valid but this is exactly what he did and is exactly where they are at right now. 

These things take time. It takes time to evaluate your own thoughts and put into words and it takes to digest and evaluate what your partner says as well. 

It's not like you wake up one morning and come up with a plan to open your marriage over your morning bowl of Raisin Bran. These thoughts and ideas and fantasies and boundaries and rules and scenarios etc etc take a lot of time to process and takes a number of very serious, deep conversations and open communication - or at least it should. 

I my case, it was about a full year between the time the topic first came up until we met our first couple and then it was about another 6 months after that that we had any kind of physical contact with anyone else and about another 6 months after that before we actually had sex with another couple. 

In other words from our first discussion until we actually had sex with anyone else was almost two full years. 

And yes there was some hand-wringing and some second-guessing and some wondering if the other person had any kind of hidden agendas etc etc. 

But it took a lot of open communication, a lot of research and learning about the topic and learning what each other was interested in and not interested in before we moved forward with anything. 

The OP is probably at about Step #3 or 4 of a 10,000 step journey. 

And this is a journey where the destination is nowhere near as important as the communication and the planning and the process of how to get there. 

Yes it is awesome to be able to have sex with a variety of other people and still maintain a healthy and happy and stable marriage. But the value of sex with other people is nothing compared to the value of having that deep and open communication with your spouse and taking a fun and exciting journey WITH them TOGETHER as a couple.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Actually Exploring you did this yourself. 

Title of thread: ! Should I Be Worried

Then your first post is all about that she has only been with you and wondered what it would be like with another but you are to jealous............

Then it changed to she is wondering how it would be with another girl............

Your are the one that posted all of this, not us.

From experiences on this and other websites, your wife MIGHT have been cheating on you emotionally or physically. 

So you can stop crying about the advice you got. You are the one that put the information on here to go by. Members offered comments/advice base on their own or others experiences. 

If you want advice on how to open your marriage, go to a website that offers that type of advice. 

Best of luck to you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Your point(s) is completely valid but this is exactly what he did and is exactly where they are at right now.
> 
> These things take time. It takes time to evaluate your own thoughts and put into words and it takes to digest and evaluate what your partner says as well.
> 
> ...


This is not what he did. 

He came here thinking his wife wanted to bed another guy. WTF

When it changed to I want to bed another girl with you, then he is all for it. 

This is what happened.


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## JericaP (Jul 3, 2017)

People who love each other ought to be able to talk about _ANYTHING_, especially their sexual desires, without fearing rejection, without blaming, without accusing, without searching for ulterior motives or hidden meaning... with honesty and with the spirit of understanding. The idea is to figure it out together... which, seems to me, is what the OP and his wife are doing. It's hard to be understanding and loving... because not everybody is such. Perhaps Mr. and Mrs. Exploring's discussion can serve to illustrate for the rest of us how important ongoing, open and loving communication, with the goal of understanding is in making a relationship work. Talking about something doesn't always mean you're doing it, or going to do it. Relationships require ongoing negotiation—and RE-negotiation—on everything touches your lives. Congratulations, Mr. Exploring, for maintaining your voice of reason and exemplifying this concept. It's scary to be open, honest and trusting because not everybody is. I think Exploring and his wife are lucky in this respect: they trust each other, that they say what they mean, they don't hold back out of fear—sure they may tiptoe around things here and there, but ultimately, they talk about stuff w/o judging each other. 
:toast:


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ABHale said:


> This is not what he did.
> 
> He came here thinking his wife wanted to bed another guy. WTF
> 
> ...


What happened is he did some research and they talked about it more and discussed what their interests and non interests were. 

That's kind of my point. You don't it all out on the table and a firm plan of action in one day. 

It takes time and a lot of discussion. And like he said himself - they still aren't there yet by any means. This is just the first few baby steps.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

JericaP said:


> People who love each other ought to be able to talk about _ANYTHING_, especially their sexual desires, without fearing rejection, without blaming, without accusing, without searching for ulterior motives or hidden meaning... with honesty and with the spirit of understanding. The idea is to figure it out together... which, seems to me, is what the OP and his wife are doing. It's hard to be understanding and loving... because not everybody is such. Perhaps Mr. and Mrs. Exploring's discussion can serve to illustrate for the rest of us how important ongoing, open and loving communication, with the goal of understanding is in making a relationship work. Talking about something doesn't always mean you're doing it, or going to do it. Relationships require ongoing negotiation—and RE-negotiation—on everything touches your lives. Congratulations, Mr. Exploring, for maintaining your voice of reason and exemplifying this concept. It's scary to be open, honest and trusting because not everybody is. I think Exploring and his wife are lucky in this respect: they trust each other, that they say what they mean, they don't hold back out of fear—sure they may tiptoe around things here and there, but ultimately, they talk about stuff w/o judging each other.
> :toast:


Very well said!!

I'm quoting this because it is spot-on and better stated than what I've tried to put into words.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> What happened is he did some research and they talked about it more and discussed what their interests and non interests were.
> 
> That's kind of my point. You don't it all out on the table and a firm plan of action in one day.
> 
> It takes time and a lot of discussion. And like he said himself - they still aren't there yet by any means. This is just the first few baby steps.


Oldshirt you see it anyway you want and spin it how ever you want to. You know damn well if his wife wanted anything other then a FFM OP would not be ok with it. 

Anyway the two of us will never agree on this thread. Your lifestyle is not for most as per the two stories that I have read this week. One was even where a wife enjoyed watching her husband with other women, funny how things change when the wife starts filling threatened by another woman. It never ends well. Then a wife in an open marriage actually says that if her husband can’t get past HIS problems with it, she will cheat. 

Anyway later Oldshirt.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> [MENTION=308698]
> 
> As I said in my first post on this thread, This website and forum is largely geared towards traditional, monogamous marriage and many of the posters were initially brought here by infidelity in their marriage and anything that implies the least bit of interest outside of the normal bounds of traditional marriage is a trigger for them.
> 
> ...


I agree with this wholeheartedly.

With the one exception that a place like this (or another marriage-based site) gives an alternative view. And alternative views are important in forming ones opinion.

Go onto a Dodge site and ask if you should buy a Dodge, sure. But also go onto a general car forum and ask there. And go on a Ford forum and see what they say, too. Lots of differing opinions based on different experiences and preferences.

I think that some of us who posted replies leaning towards the negative side of this were basically told we don't know what we're talking about, but thanks anyway (in a nice way).

OP basically went onto a Dodge forum and asked about Fords. Not sure what was expected :|


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ABHale said:


> This is not what he did.
> 
> He came here thinking his wife wanted to bed another guy. WTF
> 
> ...


This is how I saw it, and others too, apparently.

The reality is, this very question has been asked on TAM numerous times, and many people have direct experience with this whole situation. Not necessarily 3-somes and swinging, but the _situation_, the _question_, the _suggestion_ and the _fantasy_.

More often than not (I think), it's not as altruistic as it's made out to be.

Given the very first post in this thread, it didn't look good from the start. The tune changed pretty much overnight, which is quick.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> What happened is he did some research and they talked about it more and discussed what their interests and non interests were.


And what I said was it would be better if he could just go to HER in the beginning and share his emotions and questions. And I suggested to work on creating open, honest communication. Now, he is starting that, with great results.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ABHale said:


> Oldshirt you see it anyway you want and spin it how ever you want to. You know damn well if his wife wanted anything other then a FFM OP would not be ok with it.
> 
> t.


Yes - and the problem with that is??????

You make it sound like there is some kind of foul here.

If he doesn't want them to play with other dudes but is ok with other chicks, then that is his perogative. 

That is a boundary. 

Coming to that position was the result of further conversations with his wife.

That will likely change and evolve over time as all things change over time. That is why people talk and communicate.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

What a lot if you are seeing as fouls and red flags are actually important and necessary parts of the process.

It is critical for people to talk about these things and get a clear understanding of each other's interests, desires, goals, boundaries and deal breakers.

This takes time and effort and usually doesn't happen over morning coffee.

And things like desires, boundaries, deal breakers etc change and evolve over time so the communication must be ongoing.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

.....I will also add that ALL couples go through this process.

All couples must address how they deal with their interests and desires and attractions for other people as well as establish their boundaries and deal breakers and such.

For the vast majority of couples, establishing what do do with their desires is simple - they simply say "*DONT!*" and leave it at that.

For the swinger/open marriage, it is the exact same process, it just becomes more detailed and encompasses more combinations and permutations.

For the traditional, monogamous couple, the rule may be "don't touch!" 

But for the swinger it is, "it's ok to touch this person here, but you cannot touch that person there."

Exact same process and concept. Just different parameters and more specific rules and boundaries.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Hi @Exploring,

I have to say that this:




Exploring said:


> She also said that she have never been with anyone else but me... and that *she* cant help to wonder about other possibilities. She assured me that she is still inlove with me and that she does not want leave me but just want to explore our sexuality, and because I am the jealous type she feels trapped sometimes.


and this:



Exploring said:


> Something I forgot to mention, Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.


are two very different things and either you misunderstood her the first time or didn't phrase it clearly, hence the misunderstanding by others.

Is she worried that you are missing out or is she wondering about 'other possibilities' for herself? Two very different things...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yes all of this doom and gloom and the-sky-is-falling talk could be true and that there is a disaster waiting at every corner and the Bogey Man could jump out of every shadow.
> 
> 
> .......or maybe she wants to get down with another chick and have a threesome where you can hook up with another chick too.
> ...


Interesting. How did you deal with having your wife enjoying another dude's private parts during those adventures? Because that image alone would be somewhat of a deal breaker for me IRL (even though I enjoy the fantasies).
Or were these escapades all with women? (In which case I might have been ok too...)


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Exploring said:


> I agreed to think about it but she knows im not comfortable with it. Since then Sex became amazing. We have sex about 3 times a day now


ah ok. Well, you could also try going to an oyster bar, with champagne and fresh oysters: it also is an aphrodisiac and nobody else needs to get involved/or get hurt. But just like with STDs, make sure the oysters are fresh


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just a couple of thoughts.
Having a threeway with another woman is just as dangerous as having three ways with other men. We have a lot of men go through here that lose their wives to other women. 

Your wife said after she thought about it swinging was off the table. Your next post said you joined a swingers site. What’s up with that?
Your wife is now cool with you having sex with another woman if she gets to have sex with her too. This means she is not into you as much as you are into her. You can’t handle a three way with another man but she has no problem with you banging another woman.

The divorce rate among women that get boob jobs is sky high! Google it. The same thing goes for weight reduction surgery.

She is worried you will have an affair but you think she could not possibly have time for one. That doesn’t add up.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> My ex wife once told me I could get oral sex elsewhere, as she could no longer do it for me, due to TMJ.
> 
> She meant it. It wasn't a "go get it elsewhere" statement. It was well-thought out, implying that she felt bad she couldn't do this any more, and she'd be fine if I got it elsewhere. It wasn't a throw-away comment.
> 
> ...


Not sure actually. Like I mentioned on another thread, my wife did mention to me a couple of times that she would be ok if I really felt I needed to get laid with someone else, as long as it didn't involve feelings and as long as she never found out. (This came during a conversation that we only ever had sex with each other since the age of 16 or so).
And I am sure she is not cheating! Pretty sure. Fairly sure. Probably not. I doubt she is. Dear Lord, I hope she is not cheating. Could she be cheating?????!!!:2gunsfiring_v1:

Just kidding. She is not. 
I think...


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I realize most men would rather stick sharp objects in the eyes rather than participate in an MFM with their partner.


As long as the sharp object is not another dude's penis during a threesome, then yes, I would rather stab my eyes than see my wife with another penis.
However, sometimes the idea of wife with another dude turns me on at the same time so I am very confused about this to be honest...I think IRL it wouldn't work for me.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yes - and the problem with that is??????
> 
> You make it sound like there is some kind of foul here.
> 
> ...


In a nut shell. 

Out of all of his post put together. 

Wife wants to be with another guy by what I have seen. She she saw OP wasn’t going for it so she changed what she wanted until OP was thinking to himself “I get to bang another girl”. 

Why should his fantasy be fulfilled and not hers? 

OP is a Hypocrite, wants what he can get while not letting his wife do the same. 

A lot of guys have had the FMF fantasy including myself. I never acted on it because I knew that I would never be ok with her being with another man. (Had the idea when I was 20 I guess, haven’t really thought of it sense).

When fantasies are fulfilled they should be fulfilled for both not just for the one who can’t take it the other way. Selfish I think.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Not all fantasies need to be fulfilled. 

If the wife wants a MFM, its OK for the husband to say no. If the husband wants a FMF its OK for the wife to say no. Its also OK for one to say yes but not the other as long as no one is being pressured. 

With more typical sexual activities though, I think this can be taken too far. If the wife wants a whole range of things she enjoys, but doesn't want to do things her husband enjoys, (or vice versa) then there is a problem. Oral is the classic case - i think that in general if you want your partner to do oral, you should be willing to do it in return. 







ABHale said:


> In a nut shell.
> 
> Out of all of his post put together.
> 
> ...


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Exploring said:


> With all respect, Do you have any idea how many fears have awaken in me since I started this post. Paranoia I picked up here almost caused more problems then my original question. And another problem is people dont read all my updates. They see the first post, and the deliver an opinion.
> 
> Can I close this *threat*?


Freudian slip? 
There are two things I can see that went 'wrong' in this thread: the way you phrased your first post made it too easy to misconstrue the whole premise (which is still not entirely clear but never mind).
Secondly: many here have been cheated on in very similar scenarios as you are describing so don't take it personally! We can only advise what we feel seems *right* to us.
On balance, I think this conversation may have simply been an aphrodisiac (dirty talk) because it achieved just that ('teenage horniness' and more sex = great). We often joke the same way and it gets us in the mood on occasion (especially her, I am always in the mood anyways..).
There would be a higher probability of her wanting a free pass if your wife kept mentioning threesomes but *refused* sex with you - then I would worry...


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Not all fantasies need to be fulfilled.
> 
> If the wife wants a MFM, its OK for the husband to say no. If the husband wants a FMF its OK for the wife to say no. Its also OK for one to say yes but not the other as long as no one is being pressured.
> 
> With more typical sexual activities though, I think this can be taken too far. If the wife wants a whole range of things she enjoys, but doesn't want to do things her husband enjoys, (or vice versa) then there is a problem. Oral is the classic case - i think that in general if you want your partner to do oral, you should be willing to do it in return.


I agree with this. 

I don’t agree with bringing others into a marriage. 

If a couple decides to do so, then both should be allowed to have their fantasy fulfilled. Not just the one because of jealousy. This will lead to problems.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ABHale said:


> In a nut shell.
> 
> Out of all of his post put together.
> 
> ...


I can't say I disagree with you on any of that.

Those are some of the topics and issues that they will need to address.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Interesting. How did you deal with having your wife enjoying another dude's private parts during those adventures? Because that image alone would be somewhat of a deal breaker for me IRL (even though I enjoy the fantasies).
> Or were these escapades all with women? (In which case I might have been ok too...)


My exact specific experiences do not have any relevance to the OP or this thread.

If you wanted to start another thread about swingers specific reactions to seeing their partner, I would contribute to that thread.

What I do feel is pertinent to this thread however is to reiterate that swinging and cheating are two completely different things on opposite ends of the spectrum.

When everyone involved are all on the sheet of music and are all in agreement and consensual and everyone is down for having an exciting and pleasurable experience together, it is fine and feels quite natural and is a lot of fun. 

It is a completely different universe than coming home from work unexpectedly and catching your spouse in the act. 

Having it all be consensual and agreed upon going into it together as a couple makes all the difference in the world.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> What I do feel is pertinent to this thread however is to reiterate that swinging and cheating are two completely different things on opposite ends of the spectrum.


I'm pretty sure we've had threads here where a cheating spouse brought up the idea of 3-somes or swinging to their BS, and it ended up being because they wanted to legitimize their affair partner. In no way does that mean that all swingers are cheaters, but sometimes cheaters will broach the idea of swinging because they are already cheating.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> Not sure actually. Like I mentioned on another thread, my wife did mention to me a couple of times that she would be ok if I really felt I needed to get laid with someone else, as long as it didn't involve feelings and as long as she never found out. (This came during a conversation that we only ever had sex with each other since the age of 16 or so).
> And I am sure she is not cheating! Pretty sure. Fairly sure. Probably not. I doubt she is. Dear Lord, I hope she is not cheating. Could she be cheating?????!!!:2gunsfiring_v1:
> 
> Just kidding. She is not.
> I think...


Perhaps not! But checked out - yes. To a certain degree, anyway. You'd have to be to let your SO go get it elsewhere, no matter how you feel about the subject. Even people who are LD or even ND fully recognize the potential implications or general seriousness of sex within a marriage. Being genuinely okay with your partner going elsewhere because you don't want a sexual relationship with him/her = checked out, IMO.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> As long as the sharp object is not another dude's penis during a threesome, then yes, I would rather stab my eyes than see my wife with another penis.
> However, sometimes the idea of wife with another dude turns me on at the same time so I am very confused about this to be honest...I think IRL it wouldn't work for me.


This. This. This.

Many men (and women) have fantasized about this. I have. I have NO idea why, because it's not something I'd do IRL. I don't want to get into the psychology of it, either, lol! But it IS a pretty common _fantasy_, for whatever reason.

Acting on it is completely different. Clearly some people can, and do act on it, and are JUST FINE (or better!).

I would hesitate to look up statistics about how often this type of fantasy turns into reality, and things go boom, though.

As oldshirt pointed out, it took him ~2 years to get from fantasy to reality. LOTS of talking and discussing and communication.

I'm not against swinging or 3-somes or any of that sort of thing. I just genuinely think that if one person is hesitant about it, it's just not a great idea to go down that road. Fun to explore the possibility, discuss, etc. but if the first things that pop in your head when your spouse brings it up are negative... I dunno.

Sometimes it's better to go with the first thing that you think of. Not always, of course (you can miss a lot of great opportunities that way). But when it comes to a marriage - I would say err on the side of caution if you like the marriage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

wilson said:


> I'm pretty sure we've had threads here where a cheating spouse brought up the idea of 3-somes or swinging to their BS, and it ended up being because they wanted to legitimize their affair partner. In no way does that mean that all swingers are cheaters, but sometimes cheaters will broach the idea of swinging because they are already cheating.


Yeah, that can and does happen periodically.

It's important for people to be alert and keep their eyes and ears open just like people in traditional marriages should.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

alexm said:


> This. This. This.
> 
> Many men (and women) have fantasized about this. I have. I have NO idea why, because it's not something I'd do IRL. I don't want to get into the psychology of it, either, lol! But it IS a pretty common _fantasy_, for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


I get your point. 

And yes, my wife were both hesitant and it did take us a couple years until we were actively swinging. 

And I get your point about if someone is hesitant.

But you need to keep in mind that EVERYONE is going to have some hesitancy and some questions and concerns.

If everyone stopped moving forward whenever they feel hesitancy or anxiety or concern about something, no one would ever leave the womb. No one would go to college. No one would learn to drive a car. No one would go to a job interview. No one would ever ask for a date or go on a date and no one would ever get married in the first place.

As I said in my previous posts, I had the same fears, concerns and anxieties as anyone else. I simply chose not to make decisions based on fear and moved forward anyway.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> My exact specific experiences do not have any relevance to the OP or this thread.
> 
> If you wanted to start another thread about swingers specific reactions to seeing their partner, I would contribute to that thread.
> 
> ...


Yes of course. I actually agree with what you wrote here and higher up. 
The reason i thought it might be pertinent to mention some of the 'technicalities' of 'surviving' threesomes is because the OP is actually seriously considering doing them and your experiences might be of value to others who are considering something similar. 
I didn't mean to single you out or put you on the spot as such but I guess there aren't many who experienced what you have experienced.
For somebody new to it, I imagine it might pose certain risks and might be open to unintended consequences - it's worth pointing it out to the OP (who may have left the building).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> Perhaps not! But checked out - yes. To a certain degree, anyway. You'd have to be to let your SO go get it elsewhere, no matter how you feel about the subject. Even people who are LD or even ND fully recognize the potential implications or general seriousness of sex within a marriage. Being genuinely okay with your partner going elsewhere because you don't want a sexual relationship with him/her = checked out, IMO.


Maybe you are right. I somehow didn't believe her when she said it, that she meant it, and am not sure whether I should go down _that_ rabbit hole and start a full blown inquiry what exactly she meant by it...She could have been playing a martyr or it could have been a **** test or it could have been 'checked out'. Dunno!
I am not always sure people always know what it is they are feeling exactly or that they are able to put it in words precisely.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Maybe you are right. I somehow didn't believe her when she said it, that she meant it, and am not sure whether I should go down _that_ rabbit hole and start a full blown inquiry what exactly she meant by it...She could have been playing a martyr or it could have been a **** test or it could have been 'checked out'. Dunno!
> I am not always sure people always know what it is they are feeling exactly or that they are able to put it in words precisely.


Assuming the rest of the relationship is good and assuming you two are still sexually active, my guess is that it was a loyalty test to see if you would still stick with her or go find some oral elsewhere.

I see it as a loyalty test and not necessarily a sign of disconnect.

In other words, she was testing your connection to her and the relationship in the face of a changing condition.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Maybe you are right. I somehow didn't believe her when she said it, that she meant it, and am not sure whether I should go down _that_ rabbit hole and start a full blown inquiry what exactly she meant by it...She could have been playing a martyr or it could have been a **** test or it could have been 'checked out'. Dunno!
> I am not always sure people always know what it is they are feeling exactly or that they are able to put it in words precisely.


Oops, I may have had you confused with another poster who's wife had some kind of jaw condition and was no longer able to do BJs so she said he could get oral elsewhere.

If that wasn't you, never mind, although I do think the majority of cases when people say to get it elsewhere is a big loyalty test. 

The times that are for real are the ones where the spouse has lost all attraction and interest in sex and wants the other person off their back, but still wants their financial support.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Yes of course. I actually agree with what you wrote here and higher up.
> The reason i thought it might be pertinent to mention some of the 'technicalities' of 'surviving' threesomes is because the OP is actually seriously considering doing them and your experiences might be of value to others who are considering something similar.
> I didn't mean to single you out or put you on the spot as such but I guess there aren't many who experienced what you have experienced.
> For somebody new to it, I imagine it might pose certain risks and might be open to unintended consequences - it's worth pointing it out to the OP (who may have left the building).


If people have questions about getting into swinging or have a particular situational issue with swinging that they want some first-hand perspective on, I am willing to offer whatever perspective or experience I may have. 

The thing about this thread and the OP though is he did not really have any questions about getting into swinging or how to make it happen at all. 

He originally posted wondering if he had a problem on his hands because his wife was bringing up boredom in the bedroom and bringing up inviting others into their marital bed (figuratively speaking).

From there it was frenzy and blood bath of accusations of cheating and dire warnings of all the disasters and chaos that awaited him. 

When he came back to the thread he said they had discussed it further and that his wife was having curiosities about other women and that she was intrigued by the idea of an FMF with him, in which he was somewhat intrigued by the possibility of that as well. 

But from there the accusations of cheating and that he was being duped and bait and switched intensified and the remainder of the thread was him trying to explain that she wasn't an adulteress and that they were just starting to have some discussions about the topic and he had no idea if they were going to actually pursue this in the real world at all.

At no point did he ever ask for any advice or pointers or experiences on actually having 3somes or swinging or anything at all. 

If he were to return to this site and ask for any actual tips or pointers on how to make it happen or what other people's experiences were like or how they felt about things, I will offer whatever I can at that time. 

However I doubt if he will do that due to the reception that he received here and the ferocity in how people insisted he was being cheated on and duped and manipulated.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> Oops, I may have had you confused with another poster who's wife had some kind of jaw condition and was no longer able to do BJs so she said he could get oral elsewhere.
> 
> If that wasn't you, never mind, although I do think the majority of cases when people say to get it elsewhere is a big loyalty test.
> 
> The times that are for real are the ones where the spouse has lost all attraction and interest in sex and wants the other person off their back, but still wants their financial support.


That was me, and my EX wife.

Was almost assuredly not a **** test, but rather guilt and/or having checked out. She did end up leaving for an AP several years later, and I'm certain there was other stuff going on around the time she offered that alternative to me.

Again, I'm only one guy with one experience, but that's why I suggested to @inmyprime that there's probably more to it than his wife simply being nice. 

IMO, when one person is okay with an open marriage, it's not out of the goodness of their heart, or "for" their partner. And even if, by some small chance it is exactly that at first, it opens that door to them going outside the marriage somewhere down the road, should they find someone they're interested in.

Even if it's truly a **** test, it takes some gall to do one like this, knowing that there's the possibility it could blow up.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> However I doubt if he will do that due to the reception that he received here and the ferocity in how people insisted he was being cheated on and duped and manipulated.


But really, what did he expect?

It's not that he (or you) were wrong about the reception he received (though it was FAR more realist than it was condemning) - it's that this is a marriage forum. And having sex with someone other than your spouse is not widely accepted, no matter how it's gone about.

The intricacies and psychology of why anybody would want to have sex with other people is something you will get a wide variety of responses to. Given that this is a marriage forum, it's not hard to deduce that it will be overwhelmingly negative towards going forward with something like this, prior to even posting the question.

Although you're definitely not wrong about your views as a whole, it's the apparent surprise and general low-key chastisement of the negative responses that's (somewhat) out of line, IMO.

Furthermore, those of us who picked up on OP's trepidation in his first post, only to see him completely change his tune in ~24hrs, to the point where he was being moderately defensive, was concerning.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

ABHale said:


> Wife wants to be with another guy by what I have seen. She she saw OP wasn’t going for it so she changed what she wanted until OP was thinking to himself “I get to bang another girl.”.


Quoted for *TRUTH*.

The OPs wife threw it out on the table that she'd like to try swinging/swapping. Swapping partners basically infers that the OP's wife would have sex with another woman's husband/mate while the OP had sex with that guy's wife/mate (or anyone's wife if it's a big party). "Swapping" DOESN'T mean having a threesome with a female. That's just called having a threesome with a female (FFM or FMF). Jeez.

She knew what she meant when she suggested swinging. Give me a break.

When she saw the OP's fragile ego couldn't handle this and he was having *none* of it, she did a complete about-face and claimed she meant a* woman *all this time, *silly*! Not a yucky man! I only want youuuuuuuu, darling! Good lord, the back-peddling she had to do for his ego.

And maybe she IS bi-curious - I'm not saying she's not. But this conversation *started* out with her taking the OP's temperature about the possibility of her experiencing sex with another man, and she put it into the form of swinging so he would get equal time. It wasn't about a woman at first - no matter HOW desperately the OP wants to believe that bull-****.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Quoted for *TRUTH*.
> 
> The OPs wife threw it out on the table that she'd like to try swinging/swapping. Swapping partners basically infers that the OP's wife would have sex with another woman's husband/mate while the OP had sex with that guy's wife/mate (or anyone's wife if it's a big party). "Swapping" DOESN'T mean having a threesome with a female. That's just called having a threesome with a female (FFM or FMF). Jeez.
> 
> ...


THIS is QFT.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

alexm said:


> But really, what did he expect?
> 
> It's not that he (or you) were wrong about the reception he received (though it was FAR more realist than it was condemning) - it's that this is a marriage forum. And having sex with someone other than your spouse is not widely accepted, no matter how it's gone about.
> 
> ...




I've followed this thread closely and while I may not have caught every post by other people, I did make an effort to read the OP's posts. 

I think he got what he came here looking for. 

Yes, this is primarily a traditional, monogamous marriage website that deals primarily with traditional marriage issues and not alternative lifestyle issues very much. 

He was concerned because he wife had brought up the possibility of opening their marriage to other people and like anyone would do in that situation, he had concerns, questions and fears. 

Those concerns, questions and fears are legitimate. This is serious business and not to be taken lightly. 

When those questions are fist posed, I do think it is valid for people to state the risks. It's also valid to point out that some times people will have an attraction for someone and perhaps even have had some kind of contact with that person and then will try to introduce them into the marital bed with the spouse's quasi-informed consent. .....that does happen in the world. 

It's also quite common in the swinging world that when a couple first starts talking about this stuff that they will discuss their current circle of friends and such with each other to see if there is anyone in their pool of friends that they would consider inviting. My wife and I briefly discussed that and quickly disregarded that idea for obvious reasons (or at least I would hope those reasons would be obvious) As an experienced swinger I highly highly discourage approaching preexisting friends, coworkers, neighbors etc (Side bar: our neighbors immediately across the street are very attractive and personable swingers ------we don't go there! LOL ) 

So I do not condem nor disagree with fact that people were quick to point out the risks that she may have an alternative agenda. That was fair game. 

Where it got to the point I had to intervene was the intensity and determination and outright vitriol that people assuring him that she was an adulteress and that she was pulling the wool over his eyes at every avenue. 

There were a number of issues with that. One was that virtually no evidence whatsoever was ever presented that she had strayed. I'm not saying she hasn't as I haven't watched her for 24/7 for the last 10 years. I am saying that he did not present any suspicions on his part or any evidence that anything had taken place. 

And the other is that as an experienced swinger that has been where he is at and have known many couples that have been where he is at, I could see that some of the things that he was saying that everyone was sure were red flags and warning signs, were actual part and parcel of the discussion process and is simply some of the stages and phases of a couple's discussion process and not a sign of deception or manipulation. 

It's just a simple fact that as a couple discusses these things, they will talk about a variety of options, combinations and permutations and what they discuss on a Tuesday will be completely different than what they discussed on Sunday or Monday. What many of you were seeing as "bait and switch" and deception, was simply just part of the process. 

The thing that had me shaking my head and getting me exasperated was the abject fear mongering and the veracity with which people who had no swinging experience were telling him with such certainty that she was cheating. 

As someone with actual real-world experience in swinging, I felt obligated at that point to offer rebuttal based on my knowledge and experience in the swinging world. 

I tried to be respectful in knowing that many here are BS's and that there was likely some triggering going on and stirring up strong emotions in those that had been betrayed. But I couldn't stand by and not make a strong rebuttal and address some of the realities of the swinging world. 

I think in the end the OP got what he came here for. He came to see if his concerns and fears were valid and if he should look deeper. And what I think he came away with was, YES, he should be alert and aware of potential risks and hazards.

However what was taking place in his house was not out of the ordinary for couples who are making there first baby steps into this world and that from the experienced swinger perspective there wasn't anything setting off any of many alarm bells or warning signs.

He came away with both sides being presented and both sides being represented. I was vastly outnumbered as this is a traditional married site. But I think I made a strong case for him to take any further inquiries and research to actual swingers forums and websites.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And as side note in regards to my conduct on this website - in the few months that I have been here, there have been a few number of threads where the topic of swinging or open marriage, 3somes etc has come up. 

In the majority of those threads something has triggered my alarm bells and I have been very quick to point out my concerns and why I think an unnecessary or unreasonable risk is being undertaken. 

I do not give blanket recommendations for opening a marriage at all. 

I probably discourage it 75% of the time and outright yell "NNNOOOO!' another 10% of the time. 

Even in this case I did not encourage Exploring to charge ahead. I encouraged him to research it and discuss it more.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> I do not give blanket recommendations for opening a marriage at all.
> 
> I probably discourage it 75% of the time and outright yell "NNNOOOO!' another 10% of the time.
> 
> Even in this case I did not encourage Exploring to charge ahead. I encouraged him to research it and discuss it more.


The thing that I find interesting - and it's not a knock on you at all - is that virtually everyone else in this thread was, more or less, yelling "NNNOOOO!" except for you.

And I think they were doing it with good reason, IMO.

No matter how you slice it, OP still came here totally worried about this situation and his marriage, and one person - _one_ - turned him around. And he basically blasted those who were against (or advised being _extremely_ wary), and then left.

I still don't think this particular situation is a good one. Just my opinion.

I genuinely hope that OP comes back at some point in the future - whether this situation worked out or not - and fills us in. If all goes well, and he/they stumbled upon a new lifestyle that is successful, it'd be helpful to others here.

And same if it blows up. I just hope that if that's the case, he's not too proud to come back and let us know.

Either way it goes will be helpful to others on TAM.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Exploring said:


> Her Reason was that we have been together since school and she is scared that our sex life would become boring.
> She also said that she have never been with anyone else but me... and that she cant help to wonder about other possibilities. .... because I am the jealous type she feels trapped sometimes.





Exploring said:


> Her approach was more focused on the idea that in the future I would be interested in other girls. And her exact words was that she "does not want our marriage to go down the crapper because of a pair of tits". If I feel the need to get something(what she can not provide) from someone else, she would be ok with it as long as its only physical and not emotional.


From reading these two quotes, it really sounds like the wife is projecting her own feelings and desires. Essentially she's saying:



> I'm attracted to another penis and I don't want our marriage to go down the crapper. I feel trapped because I've only been with one man. Let's look into swinging so that I can be with other men and get this desire satisfied.


I don't get the sense that Exploring is vulnerable to cheating or that he's lamenting that he can't hook up with other women. I think the W brought that up because she's desiring other men (or one man in particular).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

alexm said:


> The thing that I find interesting - and it's not a knock on you at all - is that virtually everyone else in this thread was, more or less, yelling "NNNOOOO!" except for you.
> 
> And I think they were doing it with good reason, IMO.
> 
> ...


I think my role in this thread was to point out that real swingers do walk among us and just because someone brings up the idea of nonmonogamy after a dozen years of marriage that it doesn't always have to indicate someone is cheating or plotting to cheat. Some times things are as stated and it is exploring other options.

The person that I believe turned this around and changed his tune was his wife. Not me. By his own words he said I was not that much of an influence on him. 

I believe as they talked about it more, the more her curiosities about women came to the forefront and he was ok about talking about that further.

And I too hope he comes back periodically with follow ups. And I too would like to hear how things went whether they decide to keep it a fantasy and not pursue it. 

Or whether whether they do pursue it.

Or whether she turns out to be a scheming, cheating tramp after all. 

Either way, it would be interesting to see where it went.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

wilson said:


> From reading these two quotes, it really sounds like the wife is projecting her own feelings and desires. Essentially she's saying:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the sense that Exploring is vulnerable to cheating or that he's lamenting that he can't hook up with other women. I think the W brought that up because she's desiring other men (or one man in particular).


Those were the conclusions that you and a good number of posters came up with.

Exploring did not say that; nor did he quote his wife as saying that. Those are all extrapolations that other people made.

Now, do I think that she has curiosities and such about other men??? Yes. Absolutely. So does your wife. So does my wife. And so does every single heterosexual adult married woman on the planet. 

We ALL have curiosities and desires for variety and such. 

If they do start exploring nonmonogamy will it come up that she may want to explore other possibilities at some point? Again, yes absolutely.

However that is why people talk about these things and come up with boundaries and limits and conditions and such as a couple.

As I said in an earlier post, all couples must address these issues, most just say "NO" and leave it at that. 

But my roundabout point to all of this is there is nothing that has been presented this far that indicates manipulation or infidelity at this point.

If they do get to the topic of other men, they will have to cross that bridge and discuss it when they get to it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> If people have questions about getting into swinging or have a particular situational issue with swinging that they want some first-hand perspective on, I am willing to offer whatever perspective or experience I may have.
> 
> The thing about this thread and the OP though is he did not really have any questions about getting into swinging or how to make it happen at all.
> 
> ...


I agree, the extrapolations here (especially when it comes to any possibility of cheating) run totally wild and often over the top but it's because 90% of posters here probably have been cheated on so it's normal to project your own experiences onto others.
But to be fair, the OP's original post wasn't phrased clearly enough and I would probably have concluded the same if I was only going by his first post.
It just shows how easily misunderstandings can happen.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> That was me, and my EX wife.
> 
> Was almost assuredly not a **** test, but rather guilt and/or having checked out. She did end up leaving for an AP several years later, and I'm certain there was other stuff going on around the time she offered that alternative to me.
> 
> ...


Not sure she was trying to be nice (she never really _tries_ to be nice, she just is what she is. Which is usually nice). But I think she wanted to partly gauge my reaction and partly she may have really felt like it, in the moment she said it, without thinking too much further. I think she also wanted re-assurance from me (that is something she often needs: she will say something slightly ridiculous so that I can reassure her that the opposite is true).
In any case, I don't think we'll ever find out since I am not going anywhere else anytime soon...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> But really, what did he expect?
> 
> It's not that he (or you) were wrong about the reception he received (though it was FAR more realist than it was condemning) - it's that this is a marriage forum. And having sex with someone other than your spouse is not widely accepted, no matter how it's gone about.


I don't know, I think what's acceptable is whatever the couple agrees on: there may be risks and various probabilities and variables to consider (and people are free to caution or point them out), but if two people are clear about what thy agreed on, I don't see why it shouldn't be 'accepted'.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> The thing that I find interesting - and it's not a knock on you at all - is that virtually everyone else in this thread was, more or less, yelling "NNNOOOO!" except for you.
> 
> And I think they were doing it with good reason, IMO.
> 
> ...


The majority (especially on this site) is not often right though. Actually it is often wrong: none of us have enough information to give an informed answer and the reason the majority was screaming 'cheating' was (IMO) because the majority has been cheated on in the past (not to knock those who have been cheated on).
The wild extrapolations sometimes work wonders and sometimes are very counter-productive...I share the frustration and been in exactly same shoes as @oldshirt actually where this drove me nuts. But I learnt to just take it with humour: and just carry around a VAR with me anywhere I go, just n case...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

wilson said:


> From reading these two quotes, it really sounds like the wife is projecting her own feelings and desires. Essentially she's saying:
> 
> I don't get the sense that Exploring is vulnerable to cheating or that he's lamenting that he can't hook up with other women. I think the W brought that up because she's desiring other men (or one man in particular).


In his first post, the OP misunderstood what his wife was saying. He clarified it later.
This often tends to happen here: people take it at face value what an OP writes what his/her wife/husband meant when in fact, it's more like Chinese Whispers and often it turns out that what they meant was actually something completely different in the end...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Those were the conclusions that you and a good number of posters came up with.
> 
> Exploring did not say that; nor did he quote his wife as saying that. Those are all extrapolations that other people made.
> 
> ...


You mean secretly wondering what it would be like to have sex with another man?
Actually, my wife was always quite clear that she doesn't and I can't really find a good reason to doubt her: she won't watch porn where there are other men and the few times I did manage to get her to watch it, I could tell she was not turned on. Lesbian porn was different.
This is important I guess because the whole premise of opening up your relationship to swinging et al is because this curiosity is supposed to be ingrained in all of us but I can with say with 99% confidence that my wife does not have this curiosity.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> In his first post, the OP misunderstood what his wife was saying. He clarified it later.
> This often tends to happen here: people take it at face value what an OP writes what his/her wife/husband meant when in fact, it's more like Chinese Whispers and often it turns out that what they meant was actually something completely different in the end...


This above is also a factor we have to keep in mind^^^

Additionally like I said in an earlier post, couples themselves often have trouble verbalizing their thoughts with each other in these matters as many do not have any kind of frame of reference for talking about inviting others into their marital bed. We can not expect them to express themselves perfectly with each other; and we cannot expect them to verbalize their thoughts and emotions perfectly with us either. 

We all have to read between the lines to a certain degree and we all read those things between the lines through the lenses of our own experience and perspectives - 

- The BS's were reading a WW duping her H into letting her screw OM in front of him. 

- and the swinger was reading a neophyte, potential swinger couple starting to dip their pinky toes into the swinging waters for the first time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> You mean secretly wondering what it would be like to have sex with another man?
> Actually, my wife was always quite clear that she doesn't and I can't really find a good reason to doubt her: she won't watch porn where there are other men and the few times I did manage to get her to watch it, I could tell she was not turned on. Lesbian porn was different.
> This is important I guess because the whole premise of opening up your relationship to swinging et al is because this curiosity is supposed to be ingrained in all of us but I can with say with 99% confidence that my wife does not have this curiosity.


Just because she doesn't tell you about and just because she denies it when asked and just because she doesn't watch porn with men in it, doesn't mean that she doesn't feel it. 

I am not saying that she is a potential WW or anything and I am not saying you need to plant a GPS monitor in her car or anything of the sort. 

I am saying *ALL* living, breathing, healthy, adult human beings including the Pope and including Mother Teresa herself have desires and curiosities and attractions etc 

Unless someone has their testicles or ovaries removed somehow (and maybe that doesn't even stop it) every single human being walking the planet has interests and desires and those interests and desires do not stop with their spouse. 

It's just part of us. It just is. If you truly believe that your wife NEVER has any attractions or desires other than you, then you are either naïve or delusional. 

Might she have some lesbian tendencies and is more attracted to women than to men? Sure. Women are clearly prettier and nicer to look at than men. 

Now that doesn't mean that she will ever lift a finger to hook up with another man or a woman or anything. And most people are sincere and act in good faith and do not want to make their uncomfortable or hurt their feelings so they do not openly admit or discuss their desires. ....... but they have those desire nonetheless. 

My wife does have desires and attractions for other men and other women and I have seen her ride other men like a big white horse and ask for more, and I have watched crawl all over other women. But other than those times, she also never discusses her desires and attractions with me either. 

And I too have ravaged other women in front of her, but when we are out in public or walking down the street etc I never ogle over other women or comment on their appearance or say a word about how attractive or sexy I may find another. 

But just because we don't say it and don't do anything about it, doesn't mean that we don't feel it. 

There is a time and place for everything. Swinging is a time and place to express your desire for variety. The other 99.99999999% of the time, you are respectful of your spouse and their feelings and comfort.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

....... The only thing that separates the swinger from everyone else is the swinger accepts people have desires and curiosities and interests that extend beyond their spouse; and they discuss it and come to mutual agreements on what to do about those feelings and desires that each can agree to without causing discomfort to their partner or damage to their marriage. 

That's really the only thing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Just because she doesn't tell you about and just because she denies it when asked and just because she doesn't watch porn with men in it, doesn't mean that she doesn't feel it.
> 
> I am not saying that she is a potential WW or anything and I am not saying you need to plant a GPS monitor in her car or anything of the sort.
> 
> ...


Oh of course I don't just take her word for it. I also look for signs, even plant ideas in her head and i really wouldn't mind if she did show or admit curiosity and she is not the type of 'polite-and-scared-to-offend-me' type of person at all: she would tell me, I often asked her and found it curious that she didn't have those curiosities.
I don't know, I guess I have to take your word for it that she does. Or do you think it is maybe difficult for you to imagine another type of mindset?

I guess there's no way for me to verify what really goes on in her head. Like I wrote higher up, the thought of her riding another guy for some reason excites me in theory, but I couldn't actually bear to actually see it in reality so if she told me about those curiosities, she knows I would not feel intimidated or hurt so i don't really see why she wouldn't tell me...

What makes it more improbable for her not to be curious is the fact that she didn't have anyone apart from me (nor have I, apart from her).

The Lesbian porn was just aesthetics of pretty bodies. I don't think she's actually bicurious. (But I would be perfectly happy if she was).

Sorry for TJ - but I guess OP is not coming back anyway.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There is a galactically ginormous leap going from walking through the produce section of the grocery store and seeing an attractive person and having a flash of attraction go through your head for a moment and actually trying to have sex with them. 

All I am saying is that everyone has those moments 
of attraction/desire periodically for people other than their spouse. 

Anyone who says they don't is lying and anyone who says their spouse doesn't is naïve or delusional. 

That doesn't mean that everyone is going to go out and cheat or that they are going to pack up and leave their spouse to pursue actually getting with someone else.


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## Randy2 (Jul 19, 2016)

WOW, 13 pages, 182 mostly detailed posts with good grammar, spelling, paragraph structure, most of them in an initial 3 day post-fest. As an occasional visitor here, I'm impressed. And I'm struck by how committed you all are to your relative positions.

I haven't counted up the male vs. female posts, or gender-relative positions. But I don't think anyone has written directly to the fact that it in the OP's marriage, it's the woman initiating/discussing the exploration, not the man. I expect this fact got a lot of fingers typing. There seems to be a push-pull, desire-distrust thing here on TAM about women acknowledging their sexuality and curiosity. I think this is a problem for our species.

But I may well have misunderstood much of what has been written here, as I'm not up on all the abbreviations... BS's, WW , H , OM , ****test and so many more. Is there a glossary here, on translation APP that might spell some of this out for me?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Randy2 said:


> I haven't counted up the male vs. female posts, or gender-relative positions. But I don't think anyone has written directly to the fact that it in the OP's marriage, it's the woman initiating/discussing the exploration, not the man. I expect this fact got a lot of fingers typing. There seems to be a push-pull, desire-distrust thing here on TAM about women acknowledging their sexuality and curiosity. I think this is a problem for our species.


This topic above above is worthy of it's own thread and discussions.

It is dead-on true.

Female sexuality and how men react to it is a funny thing.

Men crave it and yearn for it, start wars for it, kill and die for .......but yet they fear it to the very core of their beings. 

The contradiction here is that a lot of the threads here are from men bemoaning their wife's lack of sexual response and wondering how to make them more sexual.

The half of the posts are from men who's wives are sexual...... But for other men :-O

And then this thread comes along where a faithful wife who is sexual with her husband initiates a discussion about bringing more sexual adventure and options into their marital Sexlife and grown men start screaming warning cries and scrambling into cover like a pack of skreaching monkeys wailing warning cries at an approaching leopard. 

Anyone else see the irony and dichotomy there??

Female sexuality is like fire; we crave it's warmth and light and ability to cook our food. But we fear it's destructive force and ability to cause us pain and scar us when it gets away from our control.

This thread has exemplified that irony stupendously.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Randy2 said:


> WOW, 13 pages, 182 mostly detailed posts with good grammar, spelling, paragraph structure, most of them in an initial 3 day post-fest. As an occasional visitor here, I'm impressed. And I'm struck by how committed you all are to your relative positions.
> 
> I haven't counted up the male vs. female posts, or gender-relative positions. But I don't think anyone has written directly to the fact that it in the OP's marriage, it's the woman initiating/discussing the exploration, not the man. I expect this fact got a lot of fingers typing. There seems to be a push-pull, desire-distrust thing here on TAM about women acknowledging their sexuality and curiosity. I think this is a problem for our species.
> 
> But I may well have misunderstood much of what has been written here, as I'm not up on all the abbreviations... BS's, WW , H , OM , ****test and so many more. Is there a glossary here, on translation APP that might spell some of this out for me?


Yes, for abbreviations look over here, in the Forum ****


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Randy2 said:


> WOW, 13 pages, 182 mostly detailed posts with good grammar, spelling, paragraph structure, most of them in an initial 3 day post-fest. As an occasional visitor here, I'm impressed. And I'm struck by how committed you all are to your relative positions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes it would be nice to have an easy reference ledger one could refer to without losing you spot


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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