# Help With Wife's Sex Drive



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and make her libido work again???


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Are you still courting your wife? A lot of men think that once they put a ring on her finger, they don't have to try as hard... they think they don't have to woo her or romanticize her anymore. But the truth is, you have to do that continually to keep your relationship alive. 

What are your wife's love languages? Are you speaking them to her, and vice versa?

Is she seeing a doctor regarding her menopause? Looked into hormone replacement therapy?

Your question is very vague, and more information is necessary to get good advice.


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

You bring up a good questions with regard to speaking to her love language, I guess I do not know...I need work on that also

No she is not seeing a dr about her menopause and we could work on that.


----------



## ulyssesheart (Jan 7, 2017)

She sounds very understanding. Letting you masturbate? You have set a bad precedent, one that will be hard to reverse. I would bring sex toys into the bedroom. Spend a lot of time with her. Lots of foreplay. Ask her what she likes. Do not take no for an answer. As a last ditch solution, I suggest a sex therapist, after she sees her OBGYN for suggestions and a check up. Forty nine is too young for this response. 

Make sure she is not getting her jollies off with another man or women and is deceiving you.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bill67 said:


> I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and *make her libido work again???*


 @bill67 whatever you do, do NOT make your wife feel like her libido is now broken, but instead try to come across as accepting that it is changing. Here are some positive things about sex after menopause for you and her to read about:

Top reasons why sex is better after menopause - Health.com
10 Tips for Mind-Blowing Sex After Menopause | Prevention

Be very open to the fact that sex will be different, and try to put a strong emphasis on bonding with her emotionally and abandon the idea of performance driven sex for the sole purpose of an orgasm. Orgasms still happen as we age and have the potential to be immensely more meaningful and powerful than compared to our teenage years. But sex is going to be different, as you are obviously not trying to conceive. Instead you are each trying to celebrate your union and enjoy feeling close to one another. If orgasms happen along the way of exploring that, then great. If an orgasm does not happen and you finally find _other reasons_ to really enjoy sex together, even better! 

Also you are going to have to find ways to work on her self image and help her feel very positive about her age and womanhood. It is likely that she feels old and no longer good about herself. Find whatever ways you can to help her feel positive about herself. Buy her flowers for no reason, don't get upset about her changing libido, be creative and find new ways to explore intimacy in ways that are gentle, relaxed, and emotionally connected. Perhaps you allow her to keep on cloths on and hug you, or perhaps you enjoy helping her find new ways to please you sexually that are very easy for her that also help you compliment how beautiful that she is to you. 

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

bill67 said:


> I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and make her libido work again???


You mentioned her watching you masturbate from time to time. Is she willing to give you a helping hand, if you will? Is she open to giving you oral sex? 

It's not that uncommon for women to lose their libido at menopause. It's also not uncommon for them to not enjoy penetration after menopause. However, neither of those should be reason for her not to try to meet your needs some other way (oral sex, hand jobs, male toys). Think about it like this. .. would you be willing to meet her sexual needs if you suffered from erectile dysfunction? If so, then she should too. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> It's also not uncommon for them to not enjoy penetration after menopause.


:scratchhead:

So it isn't common to be unlikely that avoiding penetrative sex is not something unenjoyable?

PS: I know you are just trying to say that penetration can be problematic, which is why sex therapists often recommend lube and lots of it. 

@bill67 have you ever tried coconut oil?


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

no she isn't willing to assist. i suspect something has happened in her past she has not told me about. i do know in her last marriage she never felt sexy and was never told that, she was never told she looks great or anything like that. she pretty much shut down. but what i don't understand is sex was great while we were dating, oral sex was great and intercourse was aslo great.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> So it isn't common to be unlikely that avoiding penetrative sex is not something unenjoyable?
> 
> ...


Are you trying to be cute? If not, could you reword that in understandable language cause it makes no sense at all to me...

It is common for the vaginal tissues to thin out after menopause and cause pain and dysfunction. It is not always fixable by using lube. It is a hormonal problem and not everyone can or is willing to use hormonal treatments...


----------



## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist. i suspect something has happened in her past she has not told me about. i do know in her last marriage she never felt sexy and was never told that, she was never told she looks great or anything like that. she pretty much shut down. but what i don't understand is sex was great while we were dating, oral sex was great and intercourse was aslo great.


Bait and switch? That's what my ex did to me. Everything stopped after the honeymoon.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist. i suspect something has happened in her past she has not told me about. i do know in her last marriage she never felt sexy and was never told that, she was never told she looks great or anything like that. she pretty much shut down. but what i don't understand is sex was great while we were dating, oral sex was great and intercourse was aslo great.


Does she feel (un)sexy with you? Do you tell her that you find her attractive? Compliment her on her appearance?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

anonmd said:


> It is common for the vaginal tissues to thin out after menopause and cause pain and dysfunction. It is not always fixable by using lube. It is a hormonal problem and not everyone can or is willing to use hormonal treatments...


Master and Johnson studied geriatric individuals compiled a great deal of data on their sexual activities or lack thereof. They concluded that for a female that has a male spouse encouraging her to maintain sex at a frequency of at least once a week after menopause that it drastically delayed and/or mitigated the effects of hormonal starvation on the female body.

For example Masters and Johnson discovered that sexually active females experienced much less problems with urinary incontinence.

This research was conducted on 61 menopausal females

Sexual healing my friend! 

Badsanta


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

Yes I tell her all the time how I am attracted to her and how attractive I find her. I am in love with her and would like this to clear up.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist. i suspect something has happened in her past she has not told me about. i do know in her last marriage she never felt sexy and was never told that, she was never told she looks great or anything like that. she pretty much shut down. but what i don't understand is sex was great *while we were dating*, oral sex was great and intercourse was aslo great.


Sex during dating and just after a divorce could have been "rebound" sex. If so it was more about numbing the pain from ending her previous relationship. Now that the pain is gone she may no longer be motivated to numb it. 

As a modern society we are good at numbing pain, but not so good at allowing ourselves to feel pleasure when it should be deserved. 

Badsanta


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

bill67 said:


> Yes I tell her all the time how I am attracted to her and how attractive I find her. I am in love with her and would like this to clear up.


Bill, please know that I wasn't accusing you with my questions. I was trying to get a little more information. I think the fact that you are here trying to get help shows that you love her.

She may still have doubts about her attractiveness, and it may well have nothing to do with you. You can do everything to try to convince her that she is beautiful and attractive, but if she doesn't truly believe it herself, it will still be an impediment. 

This may no longer be an issue for her, I don't know her or her side, so this may be a moot point, But since you bring it up, it is something worth considering.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Sex during dating and just after a divorce could have been "rebound" sex. If so it was more about numbing the pain from ending her previous relationship. Now that the pain is gone she may no longer be motivated to numb it.
> 
> As a modern society we are good at numbing pain, but not so good at allowing ourselves to feel pleasure when it should be deserved.
> 
> Badsanta


This prompts another questions. OP, you mentioned that this is her second marriage. Are/were you the first person that she dated after her divorce? If so, that may indicate rebound sex. That doesn't mean it is definitely, but it is a possibility.


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

Oh I know you were not accusing me I did not take it that way, if I sounded like i did i am sorry for that.


----------



## ChipperE (Nov 16, 2016)

Have you ever just sat her down and said..."I love you very much and you are a beautiful, sexy woman. Lets talk about our sex life..." And (very delicately) tell her that you find yourself desiring her all the time and would like to know some ways that you might help her get in the mood. Has she said specifically why she will watch you masturbate but not participate? When she watches is it because you've asked her to or because she enjoys watching? Have you ever encouraged her to join for herself? I'm sorry, I know these sound like pervy questions!

My concern is when you say she "knows it has dried up" and it isn't working (her libido). Is that as a result of you telling her it's not working or her responding when you are asking for sex?


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

I have sat down with her and discussed these issue with her, for one thing though she finds that when i cum finds that repulsive, however, I suspect not so much me as it is with her ex. when she gets it on her she needs to shower right after...that is from her ex she has told me that before. Some how she has let that creep into our marriage i don't think she knows how to get rid of it.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She needs therapy.


----------



## ChipperE (Nov 16, 2016)

bill67 said:


> I have sat down with her and discussed these issue with her, for one thing though she finds that when i cum finds that repulsive, however, I suspect not so much me as it is with her ex. when she gets it on her she needs to shower right after...that is from her ex she has told me that before. Some how she has let that creep into our marriage i don't think she knows how to get rid of it.


This sounds like a wayyyy deeper issue than your wife having a low libido. I think she could benefit from therapy. That is not normal and it sounds like there is some sort of trauma and/or deep-seeded issue that's getting worse as time goes on.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist.


That's the problem,

If I lost my libido and my d!ck stopped working, I'd happily take care of my wife's sexual needs (I know this because it happened).

Why?

Because my wife's happiness is very important to me.

P.S. I'd also aggressively look for answers as to why I lost my libido and my d!ck stopped working.


----------



## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

bill67 said:


> ...she finds that when i cum finds that repulsive, however, I suspect not so much me as it is with her ex. when she gets it on her she needs to shower right after...that is from her ex she has told me that before. Some how she has let that creep into our marriage i don't think she knows how to get rid of it.


Find a good sex therapist. Also, I would recommend a female. She's more likely to open up and not feel judged by a female therapist. I don't mean to be sexist about that, but it's my impression. As a bonus, one that can do EMDR would be useful in this case. It sounds like she is still projecting her ex onto you and that's certainly not fair to you. She needs help getting past this.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

bill67 said:


> I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and make her libido work again???


It is always good to consider the medical side of things, just to rule out solid causes. Beyond that, you already mentioned a libido killer: menopause. What you can do is maximize it, but that depends on the dynamics of your relationship.

#1: How comfortable and rewarding is it to each of you in regards to sex?
#2: How do each of you feel about having future communication regarding sex? (fear/anxiety/anticipation/hope/etc)


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bill,
You need to zoom in on the first year or two you were married.

Because you said that sex dried up after you got married. That wasn't caused by menopause. That was about something else entirely. 

By letting this go on for 6 years you've sent the message that it's ok. 






bill67 said:


> I have sat down with her and discussed these issue with her, for one thing though she finds that when i cum finds that repulsive, however, I suspect not so much me as it is with her ex. when she gets it on her she needs to shower right after...that is from her ex she has told me that before. Some how she has let that creep into our marriage i don't think she knows how to get rid of it.


----------



## bill67 (Jan 13, 2017)

thats a good point


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

bill67 said:


> I am in love with her and would like this to clear up.


Loss of sex drive in menopause (and after) isn't something that 'clears up.' It's due to the body no longer making certain hormones that were instrumental in the past to her having a sex drive. Quite honestly, 'complimenting' her really isn't going to magically make those hormones reappear.


----------



## ulyssesheart (Jan 7, 2017)

bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist. i suspect something has happened in her past she has not told me about. *i do know in her last marriage she never felt sexy and was never told that*, she was never told she looks great or anything like that. she pretty much shut down. but what i don't understand is sex was great while we were dating, oral sex was great and intercourse was aslo great.


She was not told these things because she did not "earn" the praise. She was not sexy or sexual with her ex. While courting, she was sexual with you because she "needed" to do these things with you to win you over. She now feels "no need" to do these things. Believe me, she knows what a womens role in a marriage is. She is self centered, stubborn and unwilling to learn or compromise. You were snookered. This is the truth that is harsh and abrading.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bill,
It makes little sense to focus on physiology - when your marriage certificate was the catalyst for your sex life pretty much drying up. 

Life is a lot harder for folks who want to be married but don't much like sex. It tends to require a lot of deception. 

And - it seems pretty conflict avoidant for you to make this about menopause. From your own description, she mostly stopped having sex with you as soon as you uttered your vows. The odds of resolving this, without addressing THAT, are very very low. 






bill67 said:


> *I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up* and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and make her libido work again???


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bill67 said:


> I have sat down with her and discussed these issue with her, for one thing though she finds that when i cum finds that repulsive, however, I suspect not so much me as it is with her ex. when she gets it on her she needs to shower right after...that is from her ex she has told me that before. Some how she has let that creep into our marriage i don't think she knows how to get rid of it.





ChipperE said:


> This sounds like a wayyyy deeper issue than your wife having a low libido. I think she could benefit from therapy. That is not normal and it sounds like there is some sort of trauma and/or deep-seeded issue that's getting worse as time goes on.


Generally speaking women should receive a great deal of validation by experiencing her partner climax. In contrast when men have performance anxiety and are unable to climax for whatever reason, women are often devastated and can'y help but to feel that their partner is no longer attracted or pleased with the relationship anymore. 

Now to be fair to those trying to help you, would you please answer the following. Is she repulsed right at the moment that you climax, or say ten minutes afterwards when she feels something cold and wet running down the side of her thigh? If her repulsion is delayed until things cooled down, then that is actually a little more normal. She should however be OK with keeping a towel next to the bed and just clean up things before anything gets cold and feels repulsive.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I find it odd that she was into sex with you when dating, and now it's nearly non-existent. I've read stories on here and have observed this offline, that many women (and many men) stop feeling like they need to try after marriage. They let themselves go physically, don't work out, aren't as kind as when they were dating, aren't as attentive and sexual, etc. I think that she need counseling, and then maybe you both could go to counseling together so you can be supportive of each other.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> I find it odd that she was into sex with you when dating, and now it's nearly non-existent. I've read stories on here and have observed this offline, that many women (and many men) stop feeling like they need to try after marriage. They let themselves go physically, don't work out, aren't as kind as when they were dating, aren't as attentive and sexual, etc. I think that she need counseling, and then maybe you both could go to counseling together so you can be supportive of each other.


 @*Deidre* this type of response seems to be a common theme of yours, and perhaps a projection that you have a fear of commitment in your own relationship based on this exact fear (that after marriage, people stop caring for each other).

For both you and the OP, everyone needs to be aware that every relationship has a "honeymoon" period that seems to benefit from a boost of extra hormones. This makes these moments filled with happiness and that "butterflies in my stomach" sense of excitement about your future together. 

Inevitably things do change, because *love has seasons*. As a relationship grows people begin to need different things from one another and the nature of intimacy begins to change and transform. These changes are NOT inherently bad, but most people fear change and freak out that it is the "canary in the coal mine" signaling that things are bad. 

From the outside looking in, perhaps you see a married person that has let themselves go. From the inside looking out, you would see your spouse struggling with diabetes and very thankful to you for caring and helping them through some tough changes in lifestyle. 

Research yourself and find out about the reason why married people tend to live longer. The answer usually is because they have a reason to live, and someone to help them do it.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

bill67 - Ask your wife to read this link - Unbearable Lessons - The Forgiven Wife

My wife was viewing me thru the lenses of a prior relationship. This article helped in getting a conversation started.


----------



## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

I read on Pych-central that either partner has an issue is to do this no matter if one is depresssed, has ED, lll or a reduced libido due to any Cause. 1. go on a date, or have a meal together you both enjoy with the kids away.
Take a shower or bath alone or together to get relaxed. Go to the bedroom that or a room that has not busy stuff in it an you both feel relaxed. Men, put on some boxers that look cool. Women, put on a mid thigh silk nighty that looks sexy, no Victoria secret stuff unless you want to. No matter how disinterested you are, you must do this: Dressed have a bottle of wine talk and kiss like teenager's for a 1/2 hour. It is to enjoy the moment. If you are board and thinking about the dishes or work, continue kissing and wipe it from your mind. The touching is more important. Move to the bedroom. Give each other a massage. Do not touch private parts, breasts, sex organ parts. The goal is to touch the body romantically, sensually. It coud be gentle or like a real massage. I would stick to make it erotic as possible. 15 minutes per person. The last five you could brush over the parts nonchalantly. If either one is not aroused keep at it. You can ask while massageing how you like to be touched, or oral sex performed, how to improve kissing, or even a fantasy. Tell each how much you love each other and how beautiful one looks or how you make the other feel. If things don't go as fast, like slow reaction, interested but feel tired or depressed keep up with it. It is the touch and time together, the orgasm is the icing on the cake. the stuff between is the cake, the meringue between the crust and the cream on top. Nobody I know would complain about the. meringue. Nothing wrong with dousing boddy parts with meringue and candles. I think you will get the idea. Start at 8:00 p.m. before SNL starts and both of you are too tired. Getting 8 hours sleep a night should increase libido. Stop wanking, have your wife do it once in a while. Wanking is so one-sided.


----------



## bdavinici (Jan 15, 2017)

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but wanted to get some advice. 

I have HD (want sex 3-4x per week), and my wife, LD (want sex every ~2 weeks, if that). We have been married about 3 years, and have a child who is about one year old - both of us about 33. She had issues in her past marriage with sex, she barely had sex with her ex husband (with her 5 yrs) - he was not into sex at all, think asexual; I think this is a big part of her problem, but she will not discuss with me as she says its in the past, and she is fine. I don't think she thinks about sex unless she thinks I want it.

Back story: Everything was fine in the beginning, we had sex 3-4x a week, which moved down to about 2-3x per week after about a year, which is still good - but we had a lot of fights about it. For sex, she orgasms almost every time, and I do not have ED. She says she enjoys sex after we have it.

After she got pregnant, it became 1x per week and then none in 3rd trimester - totally understandable. Fast forward to about 9 months after baby, and sex is a very heated topic. It is very very hard to have sex with her (We are at ~1x per week, but I have to spend a large amount of time engineering the right moment), and I have tried a lot - 
1. Appealing to her love language of action
2. being creative with gifts, flowers 1x per week, buying her fancy chocolates
3. Doing more house work
4. providing a higher degree of empathy
5. slowed down and recently stopped any form of groping (I did not realize this was an issue until recently), engage in more hugging, hand holding, and kissing
6. concentrating more on my health and grooming - working to get myself into better shape (I am in pretty good shape now, but would not hurt me to get into better shape)
7. massaging her neck/back more
8. Bought a host of sex toys, but she did not want to see them, she refuses to wear lingerie, or engage in any sex related talk about what she likes/does not like.

No matter how much love I give or how generous I am, she does not give me what I really want - sex. She will bake me a cookie or buy me something, but will not offer sex or show that she wants it. What really got to me was: I created a magical day for her yesterday - giving her everything she could have wanted, but end of the day - no sex. 

Since we started dating, I have asked her to wear lingerie for me, and she only did it 2x - I told her repeatedly that if she wears lingerie for me, that will be all I want. I just think there is a lack of interest in sex from her.

It has been about 1.5yrs now and I am very frustrated, I love her, but not sure how to get things back on the right track. 

What has worked for other people in this situation? I am nervous, as we have only been together 4 yrs, and it is already this bad...


----------



## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

bill67 said:


> I have been married since 2011, we had a normal sexual relationship before marriage, whcih actually was pretty great...But once we married it sort of dried up and now is really non existing. She understands that it is not working now and doesn't like it, but is not aware of anything she can do about it. She is 49 going through menopause and she loves me dearly. I masturbate a lot to cope with it and she discusses this with me and even watches me from time to time. What can we do to get over this and make her libido work again???


I'm sorry @bill67
I have been going through the exact same thing for years. I do not know what to tell you. Nothing has worked for me. She's only gotten worse. I'm down to once a year now.


----------



## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

She only thinks about herself and her own needs. She doesn't care about you. It was the same story with her ex husband.It's that simple. This is nothing to do with menopause. She uses sex as a form of control, as many women do. That's why the 180 works, it takes away that power from her. 

And how dare she say she finds your cum disgusting. Shame tactics. There are plenty of female bodily functions that are disgusting.

I bet if you said her periods are disgusting, or she wasn't a proper woman anymore because she didn't have any, she would rightly be outraged. You would never say that though because you actually care about her feelings. See how it works?

Find yourself another woman who actually cares for you.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @*Deidre* this type of response seems to be a common theme of yours, and perhaps a projection that you have a fear of commitment in your own relationship based on this exact fear (that after marriage, people stop caring for each other).
> 
> For both you and the OP, everyone needs to be aware that every relationship has a "honeymoon" period that seems to benefit from a boost of extra hormones. This makes these moments filled with happiness and that "butterflies in my stomach" sense of excitement about your future together.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your post, and understand where you're coming from, but I also don't think that making excuses for what seems to be spouses taking each other for granted, is helpful either. That's more of where I'm coming from, but I sometimes have a fear of commitment. I love and trust my fiance, but then I think...suppose we change into something that we don't like about each other, and then the marriage ends. It might seem stupid to think like this, but sometimes, I think like this. :crying:

My parents have a great marriage, not without their ups and downs, so it's not like I grew up seeing marriage in a bad light. I want to believe that love can conquer all, and that if you love someone enough, that you'll want to be your best for that person. I want to believe this.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> My parents have a great marriage, not without their ups and downs, so it's not like I grew up seeing marriage in a bad light. I want to believe that love can conquer all, and that if you love someone enough, that you'll want to be your best for that person. I want to believe this.


Sometimes *I think it is a couple's ability to fight as a team* against the crap life throws at you, instead of fighting and blaming each other for what should have been done better. 

When things had a tendency to get stressful in my marriage, both my wife and I would take a defensive stance when arguing. Things escalate super fast and get out of control, and you end up feeling like the other person will just not listen or does not care to hear your side (from both partner's prospectives). At some point when arguing defensively, one or both individuals have to just walk away and are cool down. My wife often responds to this type of situation by shutting down and becoming unwilling to forgive me for getting so upset and not listening to her. 

The best arguments we have that end up positive are the ones where I find myself getting upset and wanting to just back away and take a break. Instead I calm down, reiterate whatever she has said (so she knows I'm listening), acknowledge how that makes her feel (so she knows I am empathizing), and then ask her to be patient to see how we can help each other with whatever problem it is we are having. THEN that is where a real marriage starts to shine. Two people stop being defensive and start working together to solve problems. 

As for the OP:



bill67 said:


> no she isn't willing to assist.


He needs to try and determine if that is a "defensive" tactic to marital disputes, which it most likely is (passive aggressive self defense), or if there was some type of trauma that is causing her anxiety for whatever reason. Without knowing which of the two potential situations he is dealing with, that can indeed be very difficult to overcome. 

As difficult as it is, he will have to cool off in an argument and say, "I need your help! If for any reason trying to help me hurts you, please help me understand why?" And hopefully he can also find a way to acknowledge her side of arguments and how he thinks she is feeling. 

But @*Deidre* there are many times in a marriage where one of the two will fall down and get hurt metaphorically speaking. Sometimes you can ask your partner for help, but it can be more important for your partner to see you pick yourself back up all on your own first or at least try to. As in, "why should I help you if I can easily see you should be able to do this all on your own?" 

So back to the OP, she sees that he can easily masturbate. Why should she have help with that? While the answer would seem so obvious, it can be almost impossible to pull yourself out of that death spiral. If this where the situation in my marriage, the question to ask help with would be, "could you please help me to stop masturbating?"

Badsanta


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Sometimes *I think it is a couple's ability to fight as a team* against the crap life throws at you, instead of fighting and blaming each other for what should have been done better.
> 
> When things had a tendency to get stressful in my marriage, both my wife and I would take a defensive stance when arguing. Things escalate super fast and get out of control, and you end up feeling like the other person will just not listen or does not care to hear your side (from both partner's prospectives). At some point when arguing defensively, one or both individuals have to just walk away and are cool down. My wife often responds to this type of situation by shutting down and becoming unwilling to forgive me for getting so upset and not listening to her.
> 
> ...


I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to post this in reply. My main issue in relationships has always been an inability (maybe that's the wrong word) to deal well with conflict. I tend to avoid, tune it out...much of my advice to those in pain here is ''end it, heal and move on.'' Because in past relationships, that did work for me. And some relationships are meant to end, like my first engagement. But, this guy. He is different, and very special...very humble and patient. I want to overcome my tendency to shy away from conflict and I'm getting better, and want to be the best wife I can be to my fiance, for he deserves it. You could be a counselor, @badsanta


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

bdavinici said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum, but wanted to get some advice.
> 
> ...


Read No More Mr. Nice Guy. You are having "covert contracts" with her. That is part of your frustration.
Second, forget about sex for a while. Spend time with your kid & challenge yourself to see just how good you can look if you worked out lifting weights a couple of times a week. Becoume the best you that you can be. Find happiness somewhere other than between her legs. Make she ain't finding love elsewhere.

I can tell you this, you could have the laundry done, dishes washed & supper on the table every night, and you still won't get any. Here is a quote from someone on TAM, "I think it pretty much boils down to either she wants you sexually or she doesn't. The whole "do more housework", "women think men who vacuum are sexy" in a lot of cases is nothing more than an attempt to set the bar to a point they think there is no way you can meet it, thus keeping the excuse alive and well."

Also - here is a post from a woman's perspective on TAM - "I keep reading through this thread, OP, and I recognize every observation you make about your wife, and I recognize your pain and confusion. You are describing me and my husband and my marriage during ten years of emotional disconnect.

Something is broken inside of her, yes, but don't get too attached to the idea that she knows what it is and how to fix it. It is a terrible feeling to lose desire and attraction for your husband, but still feel that you love him. It is confusing and isolating and no matter how much you TRY to drum up those old feelings . . . they are simply gone. They are gone because you look at your husband and you see someone who needs you, not someone who wants you. You look at your husband and you see a man who cannot be happy, and blames you for it. You look at your husband, and he is focusing his behavior around trying to fix you, when what you really want is for HIM TO FIX HIMSELF. He's not going out with his friends, he's not able to focus on work, he's grumpy with the kids, he's not finding things to do in his spare time that make him happy. You find him brooding, and always, always watching you, trying to figure you out. WHY CANT HE LET YOU ALONE AND GET HIS **** TOGETHER so you can desire him again?

Because it can't really be you? Can it? Where is the man you married? Where is the confident man who has friends and hobbies and was a leader and didn't back down the moment you got pissy with him? Where is the man who told you NO? Where is the man who let you rage and scream and let it all out . . . and then hold you while you cried? Instead you have this man who looks at you sadly, pleadingly, constantly expecting an explanation that YOU JUST DONT HAVE. 

And the thought that he could even want you sexually, when you don't want him? Incontrovertible evidence that you are meat to him. A way to get off. How can he love you in that way when you don't respect him, when you disdain his weakness, when his touch makes you shrink inside? If he can want sex with you when you so HATE what he's become, how, how can he say it's because he loves you? No, it's because he loves sex, he has an itch that he needs to scratch, that it all, and you are the convenient body. 

Oh wait . . . . but you don't say those things to him . . . because you cant. You can't because you mind will not let you form those thoughts. You cannot go there in your mind, you cannot. 

It's resentment for the changes life has wrought on both of you. It's not her fault, it's not your fault. Resentment happens. The difficulty is owning it and understanding that, although it's not your fault that you ended up full of it, ONLY YOU can do something about it. 

I think about relationship resentment as being like the baby weight after pregnancy. You both were responsible for the pregnancy, but the woman ends up with the weight to lose. You cant do it for her. She knows this, and if she wants to restore her body to the way it was before pregnancy, she will do the work. But it's harder to recognize resentment in that fashion : because it's emotional and not physical, we can shift the responsibility for "the fix" to our partner. We fight against owing the responsibility to "lose the baby weight." So we just sit in it day after day, month after month, year after year and it grows and grows and grows just as surly as extra weight will if it is not addressed. 

Until your wife can accept that "something is broken inside of her" that ONLY she can fix, I think you will have limited success. 

I don't recommend marriage counseling. I recommend individual counseling for her. It's nothing she should be ashamed of. It's a mental health issue: even if she isn't willing to purge her resentment for you or for the sake of her marriage, she should do it for herself. She doesn't realize it, but it is greatly affecting her happiness and her outlook in general. 

And I also recommend individual counseling for yourself, OP. Fight hard to keep resentment at bay. Fight hard to be mentally healthy. Fight hard to be focused on things besides your sex life. After my husband made the conscious effort to work on himself, to find happiness without me . . . THAT is when I felt a small, a very small shift in myself that said, "ok, so let me take a little look at myself here . . . " I saw a glimmer of the man I fell in love with, and I decided he was worth the effort. "


Another link - The Forgiven Wife - Learning to Dance with Desire

After doing all the reading, working out, it comes down to having a serious conversation with your wife, MC, and DO NOT threaten divorce unless you mean it.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

bdavinici said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum, but wanted to get some advice.
> 
> ...


bdavinici - Post partum blues can be a ****** too! That could be part of the problem.

Let me bore you with what I did - Our kids were all teenagers, so less housework than where you are at.
My wife had bad baggage from prior relationship too, but claimed it wasn't an issue. She did tell me when I asked that she was "too tired from housework for sex". I knew part of it was her past, so me being a stubborn data geek decided to to a study. I started slow so she wouldn't notice a huge change. She complained that I was always initiating, so I stopped. I started doing more dishes, all of my laundry & the three kids. ( I left hers alone as I couldn't do it right). I started putting supper in the crock pot before I left for work in the morning. I took her out on dates, never attempted sex when we got home. After 3 months I started to initiate every other week, and slowly started to try more often. At the end of 14 months, I was sometimes staying up till 1 am mopping floors, etc, house looked really good. Wanna know how many times we had sex? 5.5 times. The .5 was one time we started and she said, "could you hurry up?" I was done at that point. 

One morning after she got up & left the room after I tried initiate, in my mind I said "Phase 1 over!"
I rolled over & went back to sleep. 

For the next week, I didn't do a damn thing. There could have been a stack of dirty dishes sitting on living room floor with a raccoon chewing on them, I woulda stepped over them & kept going.

Following weekend, wife asks me as we are getting up, "Why aren't you doing anything around the house?"
I asked "Why aren't we having sex?" She said "What's that got to do with anything?" I said "You said you were too tired for sex, so I have been doing the laundry, cooking meals, mopping floors so you weren't tired"

She said "You did all that JUST for SEX???" I replied "Therein lies the problem, for you it's JUST sex, for me it's the ultimate bonding experience that you seem to have no problem denying me". 

We had several fights after that in regards to her not wanting to address her past baggage. But we started having sex.

Thru the whole experiment, I kept a smile on my face, and did my best to be pleasant to be around. The day I confronted her about it being "Just Sex", she didn't want to talk to me. I took the kids hunting, we had a great day!

My advice is to take your kid to McDonalds, or someplace else they would like to go. Ask your wife if she wants to come along, she says no, you say " See ya later" and off ya go, have fun.

Hopefully you will get differing ideas, you will have to decide what you want to do.

Starting your own thread will help get more replies.


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@FrazzledSadHusband: That quote from a female is so poignant. So many couples dealing with that issue and it never gets resolved. So much heartache on both sides. Tragic. But the quote is beautiful. Thanks for passing it along.


----------

