# Staying for the Kids



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I was on another infidelity site earlier today and read the thread of a guy M 25 years who caught his WW in a four year A about a year ago.

He decided to stay for the kids....a refrain we hear so often in these cases.

Well, he shared that 6 months after he was told of the A by the POS's fiance, his oldest child, a son, somehow found out about the A and went off on his mother, calling her a **** and other names....said it really shook his WW up.

But my thoughts on this is not what his son thinks of his mom....but rather what must he think of his father now.

I have shared here before about the dysfunction in my mother's family due to the rugsweeping of my grandmother's multiple A's including a lovechild....and how all this came out into the open when my mom and her sister (A child) argued after my grandmother's death. 

My aunt told my mom that she didn't want the primary responsibility of taking care of my grandfather, despite the fact that she lived in his house with her son....In the heat of the argument she yelled out at my mom that it wasn't her problem anyway, because they both knew (my grandmother had told them both) that he wasn't her father anyway. (not to excuse my aunt's horrible behavior here, but I do think to be fair to her, I should say that my aunt was still a drug user at the time, something that my grandmother completely enabled.....in the years since, my aunt has totally cleaned up, and took great care of my grandfather until he passed on January 13 of this year) 

It was this revelation that first brought me here to TAM....I wanted to understand if rugsweeping and excusing these things, as my grandfather had done, was the norm....and I was heavily criticized by my family for my opinions on what my grandmother had done...I was called cold and cruel, both for my statements about my grandmother and because I had immediately kicked my own LTgf to the curb after I caught her cheating about 9 years before (my family really loved her and thought I should have R'ed with her)...and yes this was a repeat of criticism I received at the time I broke it off.

But personally, another major struggle I had with this revelation (maybe the hardest to come to terms with) was how it impacted my view of my grandfather and my relationship with him.

As a kid, I almost worshiped this man....an ex-Marine WWII vet who embodied to me all the toughness and no-nonsense honesty a man should be...his war stories were the inspiration that drove me to attend the Naval Academy.

He was, along with my dad, the model of being a man that truly shaped who I was.

That image was destroyed when this was revealed....my disgust at my grandmother's whorish behavior spilled over onto him.

No longer was he this strong man, the epitome of a stand-up guy.

I hate to say this, but for the rest of his life, I could not look upon him without feeling shame and pity.

He decided to stay 'for the kids', but never really forgave my grandmother (there was so much dysfunction in the family that resulted from this that it could fill pages).

Coming to TAM confirmed to me that my grandfather, and my family in general, were completely wrong in how A's should be dealt with and addressed....I am very thankful for the insights here....they helped me to come to terms not only with my family's issues, but also with what healthy M's should look like and how to deal with/avoid relationship problems BEFORE they led to disaster.

Now, I fail to see the honor in 'staying for the kids' anymore....I know it sounds like noble self-sacrifice, but based on my family's history over the past 50 years, I think remaining M solely because there are children is a major mistake...and one that will potentially damage the kids views of relationships in general, as well as how they ultimately judge/see the BS.

So back to the situation that got me thinking about this whole issue....I can't help but wonder if this guy really knows what his WW's A, combined with his lack of consequences for her, has done to his son's views of M in general....or how he views his dad in particular?

Would a BS choose to stay for the kids if they knew that if the A is ever revealed (and there is a high probability it eventually will, as my family shows), their own children might view them with pity, shame, and possibly even disgust?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This seems to me to be one of the toughest questions surrounding infidelity. Some people think it's a noble sacrifice to suck it up and stay with the family. Some people think it's a sign of weakness.

I know in my parents' generation and in their families, divorce was simply unheard of. I'm sure that many people had miserable marriages in those days; I think they just learned to view it as their lot in life.

I am basically in your camp, Dyokemm, but I can sympathize some with those who choose to stay because they want to be in their children's lives as full-time parents. I do think that this motivates a lot of the drive to reconcile 'for the children.' It's not really 'for the sake of the children.' It's really because the parent doesn't want to leave the kids.

Anyway, I do think that children lose respect for the cheating parent. That is a certainty in my opinion. It's also true that some children would lose respect for the betrayed parent. I actually think my mother would have divorced if she learned that my father had cheated. Perhaps that is where I get my own position from.

As for whether a BS would choose to leave if he/she understood that the children could develop pity, etc., I think that those feelings could come either way. Couldn't they? It's the cheating itself that (mostly) generates the kids' reactions. Whether the BS stays or leaves, he or she was cheated on and is thus 'pitiable.' And the children lose respect for the WS for the simple act of cheating, whether the marriage survives or not.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I was on another infidelity site earlier today and read the thread of a guy M 25 years who caught his WW in a four year A about a year ago.
> 
> He decided to stay for the kids....a refrain we hear so often in these cases.
> 
> ...


In today's world of men getting screwed your grandfather would have made the right move practically speaking.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Couldn't agree more Dyok. I still have trouble being around my nephew. His wife cheated on him and he is raising another man's child now. I don't respect him and can't stand to even look at her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)

Stay for the kids until you have exhausted all means for trying to save the marriage.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Couldn't agree more Dyok. I still have trouble being around my nephew. His wife cheated on him and he is raising another man's child now. I don't respect him and can't stand to even look at her."

I understand you completely....I felt the same.

Its hard to feel respect for someone who didn't even have the ability to respect themselves.

And after reading a lot here on TAM and other sites, it also becomes quite obvious that many times 'staying for the kids' is used as a cover for fear....the BS is simply afraid of being alone or of losing a partner that any rational, non-terrified mind would be looking to GET AWAY from.

Sad.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

It's a tough call. Maybe easy to say D and move on but until you've been put in that situation it's hard to say what you truly can and will do. I'm staying until the youngest goes to college (2 more years). Why? He had an emotional breakdown when the subject of D came out. How could I let that child fall apart by breaking up my M? The bond I have with him is stronger now than ever. Would it have been if I had D? I don't know. I do know that my WW doesn't like that he and I are so close. Maybe that's my little reward for staying. To be honest if anyone thinks less of me for staying all I got to say is that my son and his relationship to me means more than what anybody thinks or says.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> "Couldn't agree more Dyok. I still have trouble being around my nephew. His wife cheated on him and he is raising another man's child now. I don't respect him and can't stand to even look at her."
> 
> I understand you completely....I felt the same.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree with this. Fear has so much to do with why some BS stay after discovering infidelity. Some BS believe that they can hide the truth, that the kids will never know. They know. Maybe not all the gory details, but kids know something is going on. I try to tell my kids "No good ever comes from lying" and that's true if its a WS to a BS, or a parent to a child.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

loyallad. If you aren't raising another man's child and you have put your WW fully in her place and she is submissive to you, then no prob. My best friend chose R and I respect him. It wasn't for the kids though. She has turned a serious corner and is a dream wife for him now. I have no problem with R as long as both are fully committed. Does your wife know you are only there until your son is gone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Dyokmm
"He was, along with my dad, the model of being a man that truly shaped who I was."

Your comment above confuses me to some degree. Your grandfather along with your father shaped you into the man you are today. A good upstanding man with morals and respected by others I imagine. Someone who is raising kids himself to be as good or better then yourself. This is how I imagine you living your life. In a nutshell a good person, one with many and strong friendships, someone who can be counted on to have someone's back. 

Was your grandfather religious? Did he maybe think that The Lord placed this innocent child at his feet to raise? I don't know. But since you say you worshipped this man who fought in WWII maybe had seen too many atrocities in life and took a personal stand to help others. Again I don't know. But to say now that you feel shame and think less of him because of his actions has me actually lose respect for you. In fact I would say you learned nothing from your grandfather. You may know some things that have been told to you but never once did you lace up your grandfathers war boots and know what he has seen. 

I guess I'm just confused on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> loyallad. If you aren't raising another man's child and you have put your WW fully in her place and she is submissive to you, then no prob. My best friend chose R and I respect him. It wasn't for the kids though. She has turned a serious corner and is a dream wife for him now. I have no problem with R as long as both are fully committed. Does your wife know you are only there until your son is gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't call staying until the kids are grown being in R. Its just a delayed divorce


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"loyallad. If you aren't raising another man's child and you have put your WW fully in her place and she is submissive to you, then no prob. My best friend chose R and I respect him. It wasn't for the kids though. She has turned a serious corner and is a dream wife for him now. I have no problem with R as long as both are fully committed. Does your wife know you are only there until your son is gone?"

Exactly Conan....great way to put it.

I do not view people who choose to R as weak or pathetic IF it is done correctly.

But rugsweeping the A and remaining bitter about it, then saying "well, its for the kids" is a cop out IMO.

This was essentially what my grandfather did...and it was a disaster for EVERYONE involved....including even my grandmother, who had a nervous breakdown when I was a little kid and was hospitalized for several months.

I didn't know why then, but now I do... I talked with my mom about it recently and she remembers it well.

Though eventually he became less harsh with her, my mom said that my grandfather's anger and attitude with my grandmother was often extreme a that time....and it was over a decade after the A's came to light (my aunt is only 8 years older than me).

Looking back now, I can see how the entire dynamic of my family was screwed up as a result of this stuff (my parents lived only a couple streets over from my grandparents so I was over there nearly every day growing up).

As a kid, I knew and sensed something was WAY off in the way everyone interacted with each other, but could never figure out why.

After the revelation, my entire childhood made sense, but I knew long before that time that there were major issues and problems.

If a BS chooses to R, it has to be for the right reasons (love and a REAL chance to restore the M)....for the kids just doesn't cut it in my book if the family is going to stay screwed up in this way.

And because the chance has to be realistic to recover, there are some things that I can't see how it would ever be possible....some examples would be an A with a close family member or raising an A child.

There are just some A circumstances that make real recovery impossible, unless the BS just totally debases themselves IMO.

But if the BS debases themselves to stay, as I believe my grandfather did, how is it possible to view them with anything other than shame or pity?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I will tell you this, though never being in that situation.

In that first case you brought up, I am glad the son turned against the WW. Yes it rocked her world and her world deserved to be rocked because if the husbands love and commitment to the family, nor her own morals could change her, maybe that could. I can assure you that I never would have forgiven my Mom if she had ana ffair.

Regarding your Grandfather, my sympathies. I don't blame you for how your view of him changed but what's saddest of all is what your Grandmother did to the poor guy. he deserved better.


As I have said on here, 4 very close friends are divorced.

Friend 1) Wife cheats and leaves him while she's pregnant. Disgusting. There is a brief opening to get her back and he refuses. he told me "I would rather be married to a woman with class and have my kid only 50% of the time" than raise my child in a hosue with some moral deviant who I can't stand to look at. He is now re-married for 6 years, has 75% custody and has never looked back. His relationship, in his opinion, is much better than it would have been had they stayed together.

Friend 2) Dumped her immediately when his child was one year old. Within 3 years of marriage, she was already involved in 2 affairs. Joint custody, he never remarried and is as happy as can be.

Friend 3) No kids. Lucky.

Friend 4) Endured 3 years of staying together for 'the kids sake'. 2 kids. He hated his world because she was an unrepentant cheat. he said this to me "I would walk into the house after a busy day at work and look at the kids with such joy and then look at her in the kitchen or on the phone and get immediately depressed and say to myself 'what a pig'. The emotional roller coaster ride wasn't worth it." Now that the kids are getting to teenage years where the parents will come second to their social lives, it would keep him alone with the WW and he said that was too much to bear. He divorced.

Friend 5) Remember I said 4 were divorced. This is my BIL. He has stayed with his cheating wife for a decade now, child is 8. Yes, he is a cuckold who had a child with her despite her cheating ways. He is miserable. 100% focus on the kid, sleeps in different bedrooms and now he is concerned that the longer he stays, the bigger piece of the finances she will get if and when they divorce. He's lost most of his friends because they can't stand to be around WW and he won't take a stand for himself. I am the latest protester as I refuse to be around SIL. 

So in my sample size of 4, the only one who is miserable is the one who 'stayed for the kids'. 

I am not going into all the other people I know through work etc... but will say the majority are happier if they leave and don't stay for the kids.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The "staying for the kids" is often code for "I'm afraid of life after divorce".


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

drifting on,

I see your point, but disagree.

My grandfather was always a gruff no-nonsense guy.

Taught me to never start trouble with others, but to make da*n sure you never took any crap or injury from them in return.

Its a view I have carried with me all my life....I do not insult or injure others, BUT if you don't show me the same consideration, WATCH OUT.

Its how I was raised....BOTH my dad and my grandfather played a part in instilling it in me.

To years later find out the truth that he failed completely to live by that standard was disappointing, to say the least.

Hence, the loss of respect and viewing him with shame and pity....I was simply applying the same standards and values HE had taught me.

And yes he was religious....and yes, I think that his Christianity became part of the rationalization he used to justify rugsweeping...cause, you know, Christians are commanded to forgive.

This attitude, in fact, is why I was severely criticized by my family for instantly dumping my LTgf (we were planning our M) when I caught her...I was too judgmental and unforgiving in their eyes.

The only people who didn't criticize were my dad and grandfather...they supported my decision.

My grandfather simply failed to live by the same ideals he had taught me.

That is why I lost respect for him, though I never stopped having love for him.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

With the laws in place that we have I find that men often do not have a choice whether to leave or stay after they find out about an A their wife had. Often finances dictate divorce would condemn a betrayed father to poverty for life (I have proven this in previous posts). 

I think the kids would feel hatred toward their mother after learning she had an A. My kids are older and have known that I'm staying in the marriage for them for a long time know. They fully support me and hate their mother. I have to disagree with the OP on this one, I think there is honor in staying for the kids, making sure they are cared for and supported when their mother doesn't give a damned about them or her family.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Reflecting back on my childhood in recent years has also led me to have much greater respect and closeness with my dad.

He was always sort of distant from my mom's family...refused to get caught up in any of the near constant drama and problems that went on, though he always supported and comforted my mom through the occasional chaos.

Now, I understand that my maternal family must have been a constant trigger for him.

His mom, my OTHER whorish grandmother, had run off with another man when my dad was 2, and his brothers 3 and 1.

She never reached out to him again til he was in his 20's, but he never reconciled with her or forgave her for what she had done.

My dad LIVED the values he instilled in me.

And he is religious too ( I no longer am)....but somehow he, unlike my mom's rugsweeping family, knew and understood that forgiveness is NOT something to be absolutely and unconditionally extended in every circumstance.

There ARE some things that are unforgivable, and the people who commit these injuries and offenses do not deserve to be pardoned, and they shouldn't be shocked if they never receive it.

I remember my dad told me, at the time his mother was dying from cancer and begging him to come see her, that he refused because forgiveness was between her and God....he would never seek to hurt or injure her for what she had done, but he da*n well didn't have to have anything to do with her ever again.

I respect and love my dad a lot.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

jb,

I think your situation is different from my grandfather though.

You are not rugsweeping the A and pretending to the kids all is OK.

They know about the A and why you are choosing to stay....and you are not eating a sh*t sandwich from your WW trying to make nice to keep the family together....nor putting on a fake happy front to the kids, but living with resentment, anger, or coldness just below the surface that your uniformed kids can still pick up on.

These are completely different situations.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

jb02157, there is a flaw to your argument regarding your financial outcome after divorce. Your wife could have chosen to file. In fact, the outcome you fear could still become a reality if she has an exit type affair. For this reason, you and others in your situation, should push for a postnuptial agreement with lifestyle clauses if your WW is wants to prove she's sincere about staying because she wants to regain your love and trust and not simply because of economic necessity. You should consider it.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

JB,

I am glad the kids are on your side. Shows good character. At least you have them


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> drifting on,
> 
> I see your point, but disagree.
> 
> ...




Dyokemm

Thank you for giving a better explanation of why you lost respect for your grandfather. As I said in my previous post I stated that I had lost respect based upon what you had posted, respect restored. Now that you have shed more light on why I can better understand you losing respect. I can see we were raised in a similar way, don't start grief but when brought to you end it hard. I consider myself a simple man that can be nice or not nice. 

As for Christianity, I am a religious man, however I have beliefs and interpretations of the bible that are my own. I believe some acts in life are unforgivable, in a way it doesn't matter if I forgive or not, God is who you need forgiveness from not me. In my case though I have forgiven my wife and we are in R, my choice, she is working very hard and doing the heavy lifting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> With the laws in place that we have I find that men often do not have a choice whether to leave or stay after they find out about an A their wife had. Often finances dictate divorce would condemn a betrayed father to poverty for life (I have proven this in previous posts).
> 
> I think the kids would feel hatred toward their mother after learning she had an A. My kids are older and have known that I'm staying in the marriage for them for a long time know. They fully support me and hate their mother. I have to disagree with the OP on this one, I think there is honor in staying for the kids, making sure they are cared for and supported when their mother doesn't give a damned about them or her family.


JB, people stay in a marriage long past its expiration date for lots of different reasons. The OP mentioned staying for the kids. You mention staying for money. Either way, its not much of a life for the person who stays. You have no love and support in the "marriage" and no honorable way to find a life-partner outside of the marriage. If your kids are older, how much longer are you willing to live that way?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

drifting on,

Thanks for the reply.

I took no offense at your comment...realized right away that I needed to more clearly explain what I meant.

And though I am no longer religious, I see forgiveness in terms nearly exactly as you do....and as you may have read above in my post about my dad, it is the same view of my father has and taught me...and he does remain very religious like yourself.

There are indeed some things that are unforgivable....in which the only way even attempt to do so means to demean and dishonor your own self so badly as to essentially damage or destroy your own identity and self worth.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

My ex wife's two children who she had compliments of two other guys while we were married ended up dumping both of us. Me for being too stupid to know what she was doing for twenty years, and her for being a who*e.
I guess I raised them both right.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

hookares,

Sorry to hear that they refused contact with you too.

Even though I lost respect for my grandfather, I still loved him a lot.

I just couldn't bring myself to see him the same ever again.

But I understand their reaction to their mother.

If either of my grandmothers were still alive today, I would refuse to talk to or have anything to do with either of them.

IMO, they are simply egg donors in the biological scheme that brought me into the world.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> loyallad. If you aren't raising another man's child and you have put your WW fully in her place and she is submissive to you, then no prob. My best friend chose R and I respect him. It wasn't for the kids though. She has turned a serious corner and is a dream wife for him now. I have no problem with R as long as both are fully committed. Does your wife know you are only there until your son is gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've told her I no longer love her and the kids are the important thing to me now. Funny thing is she told me recently things seem better between us now. I told her it's because I no longer care, that as far as I was concerned the marriage was over, I mourned it being over and have put that part of my life behind me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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