# Long Post: How to address lack of trust & privacy in my marriage



## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Hi Forum,

I am new here and hope my post below follows the appropriate guidelines. I'm seeking advice and thoughts (preferably from both men and women) on a trust issue that is placing strain on my marriage. 

My wife and I are in our mid-30s and have been married since 2019, so we are relatively new to marriage. Prior to meeting my wife, I had a few previous long-term relationships, one of whom I lived with for a few months and was briefly engaged to marry. The engagement was broken off, but we were on again/off again in a long-distance relationship until around 2015.

In 2016, I met my now wife and we began dating. Within the first two-three months of the new relationship, my ex-fiance called me and expressed interest in rekindling our romance. I did not handle the situation appropriately, largely because I was torn between continuing to date my wife (who at that time was a new gf) and the prospect of revisiting a previous, long-term relationship with someone I knew very well. Unfortunately, my now wife caught my ex and I exchanging romantic texts, and trust was understandably broken. After being confronted with my behavior, I deeply regretted hurting then-gf, apologized for my actions, and broke off contact with my ex. I have not been in touch with my ex since.

Although what I did was unacceptable (and my greatest regret in my current relationship), it is important for context to emphasize that I had just begun dating my wife and did not know her very well at the time. Although we had begun calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend and had an unspoken understanding we were exclusive, the sudden "appearance" of my former fiance with whom I had a long, serious, and emotionally connected relationship did throw a curveball into things and walking away from my ex to pursue a new relationship was not a simple decision. When I was younger, I was also very flirtatious and outgoing with women, but over the course of my relationship with my wife I've matured and worked hard to only direct that energy and interest her way.

Fast forward to the present - we have been together more than four years and are now married. I have "owned" my mistakes and have consistently demonstrated throughout my relationship with my wife that I am committed to her and have eyes for no other woman. I haven't reached out to any of my previous exs, don't keep up with them on social media (except where we might incidentally overlap on mutual friends' posts), and have never given my wife a tangible reason to distrust me or my dedication to her.

Last week, my wife caught me completely off guard when she revealed that she has been monitoring my ex-fiance's social media channels (Facebook and Instagram) and regularly looks at my ex's pages to see if we are in contact. She somehow "discovered" a random "like" I put on a benign Instagram photo of my ex in 2018. I understand why she is disturbed by this, but I honestly don't remember even "liking" the image or why/how it happened. My wife has insisted I block my ex on all social media, so it's possible I may have clicked the image while blocking my ex from contacting me on Instagram - I honestly have no recollection, and the photo in question is entirely benign and in no way sexual. My wife then went on to say that even though I've shown her I have blocked my ex from contacting me, she has no way of knowing if I have fake social media accounts that I use to contact her (I don't). 

She also asked several times "do you ever think about your ex or wonder how she's doing? Do you get curious and look at her pages to see how she is doing?" I find these questions sort of inappropriate. I _don't_ look at my ex's social media, but considering the length of the relationship I had with her, I _do _hope she is doing well and living happily, and I think that's healthy to feel toward anyone who has been an important part of your life. I once did take a passing glance at a different ex's Facebook page (I didn't add/contact her) and discovered she is now engaged. It made me genuinely happy to know she's in a good place in her life. I don't think that is something I need to apologize for or explain.

She also began grilling me on platonic female friends I regularly talk with via social media, and expressed that she doesn't like that I share personal details with them (the friends in question are women I have known since my early 20s, long before I met my wife, and with whom I have never had any romantic relationship or interest; I don't share details about my marriage, but we do talk about life issues and I sometimes find a female perspective insightful; they also turn to me for advice sometimes because we have built more than a decade of trust and friendship). I told her she is welcome to add any of them to her own social media and introduce herself as my wife, but that I would not be cutting off any of these friendships, as doing so is a hard line I'm not willing to cross. To be clear, we are not talking about dozens of random women sending me messages, but around 3-5 particularly close friends who happen to be female, all of whom my wife is aware of.

This incident really shattered my perception of our marriage - which is that I thought my wife and I both had a high degree of trust and confidence in one another, and in our relationship. She admitted to "insecurities" and asked if we could "reset" and move on, but I am having trouble doing so, because I'm haunted by the feeling that for the past four years she hasn't truly trusted me or our exclusivity. I feel like there has been a phantom shadow hanging over us that I never realized was there, and it makes it hard for me to not to question what was really going on during what I thought were happy times together. It hurts.

I deeply regret that texting incidents with my ex early in our dating life, but I can't go back in time and change my behavior. I've taken responsibility, owned the damage I did to our trust, and have done everything I can over the past four years to show my wife I am committed to her, and to her alone. Honestly, I'm kind of heartbroken and unsure how long I will have to live with the consequences of a mistake I made early in our dating life or what else I can do to build trust. 

I'm extremely open with my wife, but there are some lines I am not willing to cross, and that I would never ask her to cross either - that includes things like ending appropriate friendships with the opposite gender, reading each other's texts, or listening to each other's phone conversations without permission. She once suggested we have a "shared" social media account rather than individual accounts, but I told her "no," and made clear that I do not expect to have access to her Facebook messages, emails, etc, because I _trust _her and have no reason to pry into her personal conversations with family and friends. I'm not controlling, but I ask the same level of respect in return. 

I'd love to hear some thoughts and insights on how I can make this situation better, or how to address this issue with my wife in a way that is respectful, caring, and attentive - I am right now unsure of where we go from here.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

It sounds like you're mainly dealing your wife being very insecure. And maybe the early on situation with the ex cemented her insecurity in your relationship. I think you are wise to create reasonable boundaries and hold firm on them. If you don't there might be no end to her demands until you have no outside social life. I could see this expanding to her not liking you having male friends who are single or going out for a guys night now and then. 

I think marriage and individual counseling for her could help. But I think you also need to tell her your line is firm on certain things and she needs to decide if she trusts you or not. Her being so insecure and suspicious will be a constant aggravation if it is not dealt with and it will continue to make you more and more miserable.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So you were still looking at this ex's instagram three years into the relationship with your wife. Why?


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So you were still looking at this ex's instagram three years into the relationship with your wife. Why?


That's a valid question. I honestly don't recall why I was on her page or liked one of her posts. I know that sounds like excuse making, but I have no recollection of what prompted me to go there. It's possible one of our mutual friends was tagged and the post appeared in my newsfeed, or I may have accessed her page to block her from contacting me (something my wife requested on all social media). When I went back to look at the page after my wife brought this to my attention, I discovered my ex's instagram was already "blocked" on my end and I can't view her posts. I don't remember when I did this. 

The other ex I mentioned viewing was a few minutes in passing; she and I also have mutual friends on Facebook. I looked at her profile for about two minutes, thought "oh! She's engaged. That's awesome." and moved on. She wasn't someone I had a toxic or negative falling out with, so I see no reason not to be happy for her.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

If you were in her position...and had caught her texting with an old flame, not just a casual boyfriend but someone she was serious with, while your relationship was still new. And then you found out that she checks out her exes on social media, wouldn't that make you feel a little insecure? I get that the relationship was new and not sure how serious you were when the incident with the texting happened, but that could have a big impact on building trust together. Perfectly understandable for you to have boundaries you aren't willing to cross, but you can also expect her to have questions and to demand transparency given what happened before you were married.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So you were still looking at this ex's instagram three years into the relationship with your wife. Why?


For context, the picture I "liked" is literally a makeup bag/kit she promotes and sells. Her face is visible in the background, but it isn't a picture one would typically associate with "checking someone out" online.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

joannacroc said:


> If you were in her position...and had caught her texting with an old flame, not just a casual boyfriend but someone she was serious with, while your relationship was still new. And then you found out that she checks out her exes on social media, wouldn't that make you feel a little insecure? I get that the relationship was new and not sure how serious you were when the incident with the texting happened, but that could have a big impact on building trust together. Perfectly understandable for you to have boundaries you aren't willing to cross, but you can also expect her to have questions and to demand transparency given what happened before you were married.



That is fair, but how long should I expect these trust issues to linger? That's what I am hoping to respectfully discuss and resolve with her.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

If I was in your shoes, I'd sit down with my wife and have a CALM and open discussion. The first thing I'd ask is, "Do you think you can get over and get past my indiscretion? If so, please tell me what I can do to help you with this process."

Just be direct, and completely non-confrontational. Let her vent. If you feel the discussion doesn't help resolve this matter, you should suggest marriage counseling ASAP. 

At least, that's how I'd deal with it.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

joannacroc said:


> If you were in her position...and had caught her texting with an old flame, not just a casual boyfriend but someone she was serious with, while your relationship was still new. And then you found out that she checks out her exes on social media, wouldn't that make you feel a little insecure?


Interestingly, this is almost exactly the situation I found myself in with said "ex," and it did make me uncomfortable. She had chosen to remain friends with a previous long-term partner, and once spent the night at his house with a friend, alleging her car broke down. The irony is that it was a contributing factor in the deterioration of my previous relationship, and now I'm on the other side of what feels like the same equation (minus the sleeping over and continued friendship/communications). It's almost like karma. I don't want it to contribute to our marriage deteriorating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I cant see any problem with you each having access to each others social media accounts if there is nothing to hide. Some couples do actually share accounts BTW.
I dont agree that you and other women should have regular conversations that arent open to your wife. I would be more than happy for my husband to read anything I wrote on social media, and I also wouldnt have friendships with other men that dont include him. So I can understand why she feels that maybe she cant trust you. If you have nothng to hide in these conversations with other women then why not be open with them?


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I cant see any problem with you each having access to each others social media accounts if there is nothing to hide. Some couples do actually share accounts BTW.
> I dont agree that you and other women should have regular conversations that arent open to your wife. I would be more than happy for my husband to read anything I wrote on social media, and I also wouldnt have friendships with other men that dont include him. So I can understand why she feels that maybe she cant trust you. If you have nothng to hide in these conversations with other women then why not be open with them?


For the same reason I don't share conversations with my male friends, aunts and uncles, or colleagues: privacy and respect not only for myself, but more importantly, for those who may not know others are reading what they send through personal messages. When I write a note to my mother, for instance, I don't expect others will read it. I'd expect she'd let me know if she shared it with others. I also extend this same respect to my wife and trust that she'll include me in conversations if I need to be part of them. If my friends or hers expect both of us to read a message, they have the option of creating a group chat with us (something we do often with friends/family). I've also encouraged my wife to add any friends, male or female, she is curious about to her own social media and connect with them, but she's chosen not to because she prefers to keep her friend list limited to people she knows well.

I do understand where you and she are coming from too, though. I think it's a difference in values and attitudes toward privacy and how we express respect for ourselves and others. One option is not necessarily better or more appropriate than the other, so please don't read this as critique; it will just be very difficult for me to give ground on this particular issue because it isn't what I am used to, and it feels contrary to the value I place on respect and privacy. If we go this route, then it will have to be both ways, and I kind of cringe at the idea of looking through my wife's texts and private messages. It feels a bit like entering "controlling husband" territory and I think I'd feel kind of gross doing it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

MVPetri said:


> Interestingly, this is almost exactly the situation I found myself in with said "ex," and it did make me uncomfortable. She had chosen to remain friends with a previous long-term partner, and once spent the night at his house with a friend, alleging her car broke down. The irony is that it was a contributing factor in the deterioration of my previous relationship, and now I'm on the other side of what feels like the same equation (minus the sleeping over and continued friendship/communications). It's almost like karma. I don't want it to contribute to our marriage deteriorating.


It does sound different this time because you didn't spend the night at someone else's house. That does sound way worse. But you get how it feels a little to have someone dismiss your boundaries and feelings of discomfort. On the other hand, you don't want it to go the route of really hampering your trust and communication. So @Diana7 suggestion of opening your social media accounts might help, and @Prodigal sitting down and talking over it with her are probably the way to go. Followed by couples counselling so you can address building a trusting foundation.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> If I was in your shoes, I'd sit down with my wife and have a CALM and open discussion. The first thing I'd ask is, "Do you think you can get over and get past my indiscretion? If so, please tell me what I can do to help you with this process."
> 
> Just be direct, and completely non-confrontational. Let her vent. If you feel the discussion doesn't help resolve this matter, you should suggest marriage counseling ASAP.
> 
> At least, that's how I'd deal with it.


Thanks. I plan to try this approach and will do my best not to come across as adversarial, but constructive and willing to listen and learn. My sadness is that I thought we had already had this talk and resolved many of these issues.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

> This incident really shattered my perception of our marriage


Guess what your cheating did to HER perception of YOU so early in the relationship?

The fact is, you cheated on your wife (then GF) and now you're paying the price. It doesn't matter to your wife how long ago it was or how early it was in your relationship. You hurt her and broke her trust before it even had a chance to develop. Kind of hard to learn to trust someone again when that trust was never there in the first place. Plus, your wife caught you THEN you broke it off with your ex. What would have happened if she didn't catch you? I bet she wonders that. 

She does sound very insecure, but part of that was caused by you. I'm not saying all of it was your fault, this could very well have happened even if you hadn't cheated, but you do need to own up to some of it. It sounds like this wasn't properly dealt with, and it will continue to be a problem until it has been properly dealt with. Your wife needs to get some therapy for herself, and you will also need some marriage counseling. The issues can get better if you're willing to go back and do the work that should have been done years ago.

You say that you have owned your mistake and consistently shown your wife that you are trustworthy. How so? You don't want her on your social media, you don't want her to see your texts (your method of cheating), you don't want her to see your emails, you have personal conversations with other women (what you did with the ex), you don't want her to hear your phone calls, I presume you don't want her getting her hands on your phone at all. So how are you demonstrating your trustworthiness? 

To me, you sound angry that she's not over it yet but you did this - not her. 

You also said your wife "insisted" you block your ex on social media... She never should have had to insist that in the first place! So you stopped cheating, because she caught you. You blocked the ex, because she insisted it. You didn't do it on your own terms, and there is a difference there. 

You say it's inappropriate that she asks if you think about your ex and wish well for her. It's not. She wants to know if you still think about the woman you CHEATED with. The woman you almost married. The woman you almost chose over her. It's not asking about your ex... it's asking about your affair partner. My wife and I have both done dumb **** and we both have asked that same question. It's not inappropriate. It means there is something else going on that needs to be talked about and worked on - either individually or as a couple. 

These other women/friends that you talk to, do you also talk with your wife about those same issues? You shouldn't be confiding in other women, and other women should not be confiding in you. It's a very slippery slope. I'm not saying you can't have female friends, you can, but don't be stupid about it.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

I wouldn't trust you either. What's all that crap about how she can't read your texts or listen to your phone conversations?

You sound like you have something to hide.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Trident said:


> I wouldn't trust you either. What's all that crap about how she can't read your texts or listen to your phone conversations?
> 
> You sound like you have something to hide.


I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

bobert said:


> Guess what your cheating did to HER perception of YOU so early in the relationship?


Totally fair. I accept that responsibility, but if we can't move past it, we shouldn't be married.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


You’re not wrong. I agree with you; however, your wife sees things differently. 

You two need MC and she needs IC. I honestly don’t get why she married you if she wasn’t over “your betrayal “? She sounds insecure and unreasonable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MVPetri said:


> Totally fair. I accept that responsibility, but if we can't move past it, we shouldn't be married.


I think you can move past it but you _both _have to be willing to put in the work.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

bobert said:


> She does sound very insecure, but part of that was caused by you. I'm not saying all of it was your fault, this could very well have happened even if you hadn't cheated, but you do need to own up to some of it. It sounds like this wasn't properly dealt with, and it will continue to be a problem until it has been properly dealt with. Your wife needs to get some therapy for herself, and you will also need some marriage counseling. The issues can get better if you're willing to go back and do the work that should have been done years ago.


Sincere question: how do I do that? I have been in individual counseling for more than a year, working on growing my own emotional maturity and demonstrating that to my wife through actions, and have not communicated with any of my ex romantic partners in more than four years. I'm genuinely looking to learn what are the next steps?


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife)


Your wife isn't just "anyone". She's clearly insecure, and some of that might just be her nature but you've got some responsibility in that for sure. She needs you to be an open book and you're unwilling to go there so don't expect things to change unless and until you do.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

bobert said:


> I presume you don't want her getting her hands on your phone at all.


Not really. She has access to my phone and I've given her the passcode to unlock it. She can make calls and view texts if she'd like, and sometimes does (i.e., when we're driving, she'll have my phone and say "so and so just texted you"). I'm ok with that. We haven't gone as far as explicitly inviting each other to review texts or share social media passwords, though.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Trident post: 20231284 said:


> Your wife isn't just "anyone". She's clearly insecure, and some of that might just be her nature but you've got some responsibility in that for sure. She needs you to be an open book and you're unwilling to go there so don't expect things to change unless and until you do.


I appreciate the real talk. Thank you.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

3-5 close female friends that you chat with regularly that you’re not willing to let go of. Note the word ‘regularly’. You describe them as very close, talk about the strong bond you’ve built up, and how they open up to you with their issues and you ask for a female perspective.

you talk a lot about your exes, and I’m hearing not much about your marriage and your wife. So really, how much intimacy is invested into your marriage from your end with your wife?? I’m scanning and scanning your messages for something nice or loving but you want us to validate that you should have your privacy and to confirm that she’s insecure.

real life is there right in front of you - how much time are you spending on line with your female friends (regularly)? Your wife must have felt like such an afterthought when you suggested she could add your friends if she liked - that would be so damaging to her self-esteem. Like she has to be invited into your little group and make her own steps to do so. You should be shouting her praises here and to your friends ...

She’s not insecure, I think it might be you.
Btw, does she have lots of male friends and need validation and strong bonds with 3-5 guys??


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

MVPetri said:


> Sincere question: how do I do that? I have been in individual counseling for more than a year, working on growing my own emotional maturity and demonstrating that to my wife through actions, and have not communicated with any of my ex romantic partners in more than four years. I'm genuinely looking to learn what are the next steps?


By ditching the strong bonds and intimacy with other women and giving that to your wife. I get that you’re not cheating, and you say it’s all platonic, but there’s still some serious emotional escapism here (in your relationships with your exes too).

You might have a pattern...

I don’t think you’re actually being accused of cheating, and I get that you’re not - but the actions speak very loudly that you’re energies might just be directed elsewhere, everywhere and nowhere really. If you want a female perspective on things... you have a wife.

Btw... Do you have male friends? I think that’s so important for men to get together and talk and open up to eachother, have you got a best friend, or group of guys?

Do you feel comfortable or inadequate around other men??


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


If I confide in anyone about something I assume they will tell their spouse about it and I'm okay with that. It's a packaged deal as far as I'm concerned. I know not everyone feels that way, I certainly didn't until I needed to change my view on it. 

My wife can go through my phone anytime she wants, and I can go through her phone anytime I want to. That doesn't mean we sit around reading each other's texts, but we can if we want to (and we have). Most of the time it's how you described it... If someone texts me and we're driving, she will read it and respond for me. Or if I ask her to get my phone and she sees notifications, she will check who they are from and tell me. But having that openness is helpful, and necessary after cheating. 

Personally, I think all passwords should be shared, even if just in case something happens to one of you. 



MVPetri said:


> Sincere question: how do I do that? I have been in individual counseling for more than a year, working on growing my own emotional maturity and demonstrating that to my wife through actions, and have not communicated with any of my ex romantic partners in more than four years. I'm genuinely looking to learn what are the next steps?


It's great that you have been in individual counseling. She needs to do the same, and you need marriage counseling as well. You need to get these issues on the table and discussed. You need to work through the hurt, let her ask questions, etc. A marriage counselor can walk you through it. 

Being faithful and going no-contact with your ex's is obviously a good step, but you're still avoiding other things that have already been mentioned. You can't do some trustworthy things and some untrustworthy things and expect the former to outweigh the latter. Quite frankly, it works the opposite way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You understand why she's got her antennae up. We should all be able to have candid conversations with our old friends or else we have no outlet. I am glad you draw the line in the sand and don't let her run off your friends. 

I mean, it's just like you being on here now. You needed a place you could be frank and I doubt you'd have necessarily wanted her to see this. Maybe you can negotiate some privacy some way at least with your friends. Maybe at least try a conversation about it and let her know you feel it is unfair for her to just take all your privacy and that you feel you've done all you can do without betraying your friends' confidence. 

Some may scoff at this, but honestly, I got VERY mad at a friend of mine when I found out she had given this guy her password and he was able to read my very personal emails at the time about private matters I certainly was not willing to share with anyone but a very close friend. So remember that and tell her it's not just about you, but that your friends deserve some privacy and confidentiality in your conversations together and that she has no right to get in those. 

Honestly, at this point, you've done about all you're willing to do, I'd think. It's either her discomfort or yours at this point. It's not like you cheated on her. You didn't even know her well when the thing with the ex happened. I mean, it's good and fair you cut the ex off, but I believe I'd change my password and get my privacy back, and I'd tell her you're about to do it. 

I wouldn't let anyone take my best friends away. You shouldn't have to. Their business isn't her business. 

Maybe you tell her you're changing your passwords because you've done all you're willing to do and aren't going to lose friends by breaching their confidentiality by letting her look at that stuff. Now, social media, that's one thing, but that doesn't mean she should have access to the point she can read your DMs with your friends. You can also warn your friends she spies on their social media and it will be up to them if they want to block her.

You can promise her that you're in for the long run as long as you don't have to give up your friends or deal with a bunch of drama because of her insecurity and yes, maybe she does need to go to therapy if it's that bad.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You can't cherry pick what you want your wife to have access to - or not. Sorry. You blew that up already. I understand your ethics about what comprises privacy for you. Thing is, you are in a marriage. A marriage in which you wife doesn't trust you on some level. There are some hills upon which we can choose to die. I suggest your idea of privacy not be that hill.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

MVPetri said:


> My sadness is that I thought we had already had this talk and resolved many of these issues.


ETA: Read my previous post. You've had the talk. Issues have been resolved. But you have not been completely transparent with your wife. Until you are, more talks will be needed. Why? Because what is resolved in your mind is not resolved in hers.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MVPetri said:


> For the same reason I don't share conversations with my male friends, aunts and uncles, or colleagues: privacy and respect not only for myself, but more importantly, for those who may not know others are reading what they send through personal messages. When I write a note to my mother, for instance, I don't expect others will read it. I'd expect she'd let me know if she shared it with others. I also extend this same respect to my wife and trust that she'll include me in conversations if I need to be part of them. If my friends or hers expect both of us to read a message, they have the option of creating a group chat with us (something we do often with friends/family). I've also encouraged my wife to add any friends, male or female, she is curious about to her own social media and connect with them, but she's chosen not to because she prefers to keep her friend list limited to people she knows well.
> 
> I do understand where you and she are coming from too, though. I think it's a difference in values and attitudes toward privacy and how we express respect for ourselves and others. One option is not necessarily better or more appropriate than the other, so please don't read this as critique; it will just be very difficult for me to give ground on this particular issue because it isn't what I am used to, and it feels contrary to the value I place on respect and privacy. If we go this route, then it will have to be both ways, and I kind of cringe at the idea of looking through my wife's texts and private messages. It feels a bit like entering "controlling husband" territory and I think I'd feel kind of gross doing it.


Its not the same you communicating with family or colleagues, these are other women you are communicating with and you dont want to be open with your communications. I find that odd. I am not saying that either of you HAVE to read each others communications but that you are free to if you choose. I have no issues at all if my husband wanted to read my communications if he were to choose to, I have nothing to hide and I never have private communications that exclude him with other men who arent family anyway. You talk of respect, my husband is the one who I respect the most above anyone else, so I am not going to be secretive about anything.
I am very open and honest with my husband, not because HE needs that, he doesnt have a jealous bone in his body, but because I value my marriage and he comes first above anyone else. 
One of my boundaries is that I dont have any sort of hidden or secret conversations with men, either in person or on line. IF you can't or wont open these relationships to your wife if she chooses to sometimes read them then something is wrong. Personally I think you need to talk to male friends about stuff rather than female ones, but thats me.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


SO, do you respect those other people on the other end of the conversation, or your WIFE more?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I'm a wife and I like privacy and I respect privacy. However, we are very open between my husband and I. I can grab his phone whenever I want and he can do the same with mine.

I've never been a jealous person, and I wouldn't like it if my husband were jealous either. 

When I met my husband, and when we just started going out, I think he was ending a relationship with someone else. I say "I think" because until now, 19 years later, I'm not sure. He says he broke up before pursuing me, but his friends said there was still something going on between them. I really didn't and don't care. At the beginning I didn't think he was going to be my husband, and I'm sure he didn't think he was going to marry me. But when we decided to be serious about our relationship, we started being completely open with each other. We share passwords of every account. 

I don't think I would like it if I didn't have access to his accounts.

Since we share our passwords, and I feel there's nothing to hide, I really don't check my husband's emails or texts. I respect his privacy. I know he's going to talk to his buddies and I'm sure he wants to be himself and talk freely to them. My husband let's me be as well. I mean half of my texts are in a different language, which my husband doesn't speak. I could be lying and he wouldn't know, but he trusts me and has never asked me what my texts say, unless it's a meme or some page tagging me, etc.

My point is, you might have change your privacy boundaries so your wife starts trusting you 100%. "What's yours is mine" is our motto because that's what a marriage is to us. When you truly trust someone you really don't need to police that person. At the same time trust is something you build up, little by little.

Your wife might be someone who needs constant reassurance. You both have to figure out how to achieve this, considering her insecurities and personality traits. 

It might be a good idea to find a marriage counselor to help you guys navigate this issue.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


Guess it depends what you think marriage is all about. If I had a good friend who was married, male or female, I wouldn't be sending him or her something that would seem awkward or too secret to show their spouse. I would assume that many close married people share a whole lot of what goes on in their lives, sometimes of a random nature.

Different people have different marriages, but in your case, I think it might be time to change your thinking a bit and treat yourselves more as a couple rather than two coupled individuals. That's what your wife would probably want. Is that enough for you to go along? 

So many things come back to issues of privacy and boundaries. Assumptions made by each that were never discussed and became issues later.

When you met, was there a feeling that she was more open and had fewer issues with privacy than you?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sorry, I can't be as nice as everyone else. You sound shady as ****. You should read the book"not just friends" 

Why are you looking for all this attention from single women, giving them advice and stuff, don't you know your married? Why are you even looking at your ex's page when you know all the crap it caused? She is an ex for a reason. 

Why don't you go get some hobbies and hang out with men? 

I am a married man by the way so don't think I am biased. If I was her wouldn't want to be married to you. 

Dude you are ****ing married now, stop being a white knight, stop shopping around, stop looking for attention. Act like an adult married man, man up and get off the social media. Put that energy into your relationship and your future.

Your responsibility is to your wife and eventual children if you have them. This is your mission, and it's not an easy one. Just because it feels like you got this now doesn't mean it's not going to get harder. And frankly, you sir are floundering. Where is your attention? This is real life, not Instagram or whatever. You wife can plainly see it's not on her and she is not wrong. 

That women is your wife, she is the primary person in your life, your partner and you are hiding and protecting your conversations where you are "white knighting" other women? WTF. And don't pretend that's not what your doing. You like the attention. Does she have a bunch of male friends where she is giving them life advice, is she liking Ex's posts? There should be nothing you say to other women that your wife couldn't be there in the same room with you, she should have access to all your accounts, what are you hiding? Again shady as ****. 

NO ONE want's to be married to secretive attention seekers. They suck.

ONE MORE TIME - This is your wife, you better start respecting that and honoring her or she won't be for long. Right now she is worried about it, but keep it up and eventually she is going to get tired of your act. 

Seriously you need to grow up.

Now you will probably get all pissed off about my post. But I am giving you the best advice you could get, something your father should have told you. Reading your post almost made my eyes roll out of my head. "My wife won't let me have all my girlfriends I talk to on the Facebook."

When you become a man and marry you need to put away boyish stuff and get to work, that doesn't just mean earning money. It means providing for her. Your job is to make her feel safe.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I want to follow up because my last post was harsh but I want to explain why. We get post after post from guys 15-20 years into a marriage, with a house 2 kids and a mortgage. Whose primary focus and responsibility was not on their wives during that marriage, and after some time their wife's have had enough and they just leave. That's the honorable wives, the less then honorable ones cheat. 

This is how this works, for the honorable women they post when they have had enough and are done. Funny thing is it started with their then boyfriend getting back with there ex, because it was only in the beginning of the relationship so there were no clear boundaries. Then it was their now husbands hidden protected conversations during the marriage. Where the wife felt like she had to fight just to see what kind of intimate stuff, possibly the kind that should have been reserved for the marriage, the husband was sharing with his girlfriend. After all they were long time friends so the husband thinks there is no need for boundaries. Once again the husband made a choice, and he didn't pick the wife. Then it was his close female friend at work that was in a crisis, when the wife needed him to pay attention to the young kids as she was really struggling. She is struggling and if his focus was on her he would know and help without the wife looking for it. She was always competing for the husband's focus and always losing. Hell she shouldn't have had the indignity to have to compete at all, she was his wife. Whatever it is, in the beginning of the marriage the wife tried to fight for it, but eventually she continued to lose, so she give up and got fed up with it. Now she is just ready to move on.

That is the good women, for the less then honorable ones, the wives get tired of competing with attention that should have been given to them freely by their husband. Then some shady guy out there can smell that, he knows that all he has to do is hyper-focus on this women and she will eat that up, he knows he can turn that desperation into some crazy sex. His attention will probably start by her thinking, well my husband can have his women friends. He protects their privacy and intimacy, I kind of get it now, this is fun, why can't I do the same with my male friend from work. (What are you going to say to that? Now all of the sudden you want boundaries?) After a while the guy makes his move and the doubt that the wife has felt gives her an excuse. It's easy to go from "I don't know if he is cheating" to "I bet he was cheating anyway" when its convenient and she is already half way out the door. Now you have a full blown affair. Still while all this is going on, her husband's focus continues to be elsewhere so he is clueless. I am not excusing the wives behavior but dude you are setting yourself up. 

Speaking of setting yourself up and cheating. You don't have good boundaries and that is going to come back to bite you. Here is the thing that most faithful people understand, it's not that they aren't temped as much as the next guy, it's that they make sure not to put themselves into a position were they may be tempted. The idea is to never be in the position where you are struggling and doing the right thing isn't a painful choice. 

Now you keep having these emotional relationships with other women and sooner or later you are going to meet one who you really like, and then don't be surprised if feelings don't just creep in. Well that is damn hard to get rid of, even if you don't cheat. You are still stuck with the disappointment of not being able to have this new exciting relationship if you are a good man and want to do the right thing. You will also be comparing your innocent faithful wife to this new and exciting rush, and she will have no way to compete because it's not a fair fight. It will probably happen when you have kids and a mortgage. You don't want to be in the situation where the joy being with your family is losing to the endorphin rush of a potential new mate. That just sucks and a terrible thing to do to them. Lots and lots of otherwise good people fail that test, and brake their, and their families lives. If you are never close with this potential other women you don't have the temptation.

This is why my last post was so harsh. I can see how badly you are messing up. You are forcing your wife, who loves and wants you, to compete with everyone else including your own selfishness. I have just read too many of these stories 10 -15 years out from where you are. 

You are blowing it son.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Very well said sokillme. You were straight to the point but I have grave reservations that the immaturity shown by the OP will prevent him from taking your advice.

Frankly MVpetrie, you are behaving like a prat (Used a far stronger word originally but edited it to meet possible issues over standards). If I was behaving like you then I could have no complaints if my wife upped and left me or found someone more deserving.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Read sokillme's posts over and over again.....he nailed it.

Your boundaries are poor.....that's your root issue. You don't want to deal with that and thus nothing gets resolved.

And guess what? If your marriage fails a lot of women are not going to be ok with the "platonic" female friends. You are putting emotional intimacy into those that are not going towards your wife. That's the trouble with close opposite sex friends....even if you don't actually cheat it diverts emotional intimacy.

I used to work with a guy like this....always had female "friends" and insisted the actual woman in his life had to accept that. Even said female friends told him no woman was going to put up with it long term, and sure enough gf after gf dumped him. It's been 7 years since I worked with him and he's still single (we're on FB).


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MVPetri said:


> Hi Forum,
> 
> I am new here and hope my post below follows the appropriate guidelines. I'm seeking advice and thoughts (preferably from both men and women) on a trust issue that is placing strain on my marriage.
> 
> ...


You act like it is your wife who has the problem when you talk of 'the incident' and how could she not trust you blah blah blah. The problem with cheating (that is what you did early in your relationship) is that it keeps on giving, the stench never ever goes away, it may be masked by subsequent living, memories and the forgiveness (not the same as forgetting) of your wife. You also have terrible boundaries, no husband has any business talking about "life' with females other than his wife. Does your wife talk about 'life' with other guys? You created this problem, now stop whining, suck it up and be the man you should be to your wife. You sound immature, entitled and not really marriage material.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MVPetri said:


> That's a valid question. I honestly don't recall why I was on her page or liked one of her posts. I know that sounds like excuse making, but I have no recollection of what prompted me to go there. It's possible one of our mutual friends was tagged and the post appeared in my newsfeed, or I may have accessed her page to block her from contacting me (something my wife requested on all social media). When I went back to look at the page after my wife brought this to my attention, I discovered my ex's instagram was already "blocked" on my end and I can't view her posts. I don't remember when I did this.
> 
> The other ex I mentioned viewing was a few minutes in passing; she and I also have mutual friends on Facebook. I looked at her profile for about two minutes, thought "oh! She's engaged. That's awesome." and moved on. She wasn't someone I had a toxic or negative falling out with, so I see no reason not to be happy for her.


How would you feel if you wife was still stalking her ex boyfriends and liking their posts, esp a boyfriend she reconnected with early in your relationship? Would you be ok with it?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Sorry, I can't be as nice as everyone else. You sound shady as ****. You should read the book"not just friends"
> 
> Why are you looking for all this attention from single women, giving them advice and stuff, don't you know your married? Why are you even looking at your ex's page when you know all the crap it caused? She is an ex for a reason.
> 
> ...





sokillme said:


> Sorry, I can't be as nice as everyone else. You sound shady as ****. You should read the book"not just friends"
> 
> Why are you looking for all this attention from single women, giving them advice and stuff, don't you know your married? Why are you even looking at your ex's page when you know all the crap it caused? She is an ex for a reason.
> 
> ...


I wanted to say it in similar words and show some anger but I’m glad it came from a man and not me. I really hope he listens to you, because we don’t know if all his friends are just women. And maybe he avoids other males because deep down they’d tell him exactly what you’ve told him. And i actually think you’ve been very nice about it.


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## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

As someone whose trust was betrayed in marriage, I can tell you that it isn’t something you deal with and move on. It requires daily, intentional actions on both of your parts to rebuild, and that process can take a very long time (some would say it never ends). You keep saying that you thought it was dealt with. Your mindset is skewed, because you’re not the one whose trust was broken. In her eyes, she’s just waiting for the other shoe to drop, and every time you say you’re going to stay friends with so-and-so, or you’re not ok opening up your phone, social media, etc., it reinforces her concerns. It tells her that she’s not the top priority in your life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

So, you decided to see if there was anything there with your cheating ex while in an exclusive relationship with the woman who would become your wife. You did this because


MVPetri said:


> I had a long, serious, and emotionally connected relationship


Now, you have emotionally connected relationships with female "friends". Do you not see how she'd think you'd betray her again for someone you are emotionally connected to? 



MVPetri said:


> "do you ever think about your ex or wonder how she's doing? Do you get curious and look at her pages to see how she is doing?" I find these questions sort of inappropriate. I _don't_ look at my ex's social media,


Those questions are NOT inappropriate. You betrayed your wife with this ex. Of course she's going to wonder. And the fact that you've gone and checked other ex's social media says she is right to be suspicious and to ask. 



MVPetri said:


> there are some lines I am not willing to cross, and that I would never ask her to cross either - that includes things like ending appropriate friendships with the opposite gender, reading each other's texts, or listening to each other's phone conversations without permission.


Once you've betrayed your romantic partner and shown you have boundary and self control issues there is no such thing as appropriate opposite sex friendships. You lost that privilege in this relationship when you betrayed your wife back in the beginning. Turns out, some mistakes have long term consequences.
.


MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


My husband and I just celebrated 21 years. We've never had a concept of privacy in our relationship. To our way of thinking, marriage means two become one. A single entity with 2 working parts that can function independently. Why on Earth would you need privacy from what is essentially half of yourself?

We've made clear to our friends and family that anything they say is being said to both of us. We frequently relate conversations from work or social life and ask for the other's take on the situation. No one has ever expressed any discomfort with that and it's actually helped have a different perspective added to the mix.

We don't do opposite sex friends. We get plenty of opposite sex interactions with family members, each other's friends, and our friends spouses.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

OP, so have you got a group of male friends you can run this by? What do they think?


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Thanks all. I appreciate the candid and straightforward remarks here, including those that are "hard to swallow" - I need that. I may post more later this week, but I just wanted to take a moment to express my appreciation and let the forum know that these "conversations" have helped open my eyes to some underlying issues I need to improve in order for my marriage to thrive.

To answer a few questions I saw raised: I do have strong male friendships, and spend considerably more time with male friends than I do interacting with female friends. I see or connect with my male friends in some form nearly weekly; my female friends I may send a text to once every few months to see how they are doing (i.e., I saw on instagram that one bought a house, so I sent a note to congratulate her and also shared with her that my wife and I purchased a home this year). Aside from one female friend who lives in another state, my wife has met any women I regularly interact with and it isn't a closed or secret circle of friends.

Whether those choices are right or wrong, the last few days have opened my eyes in a profound way to a much more important issue, which is the impact of childhood trauma on habits of secrecy and privacy that one may not realize are destructive in a relationship. Without going into detail, I've recognized that a lot of my habits around privacy (i.e., not sharing passwords, etc) are not intentionally malicious, but stem from patterns of childhood abuse through which I learned to seek safety through isolation and a protective barrier of "my space." This doesn't excuse the hurt I caused my wife, and she is aware of the counseling I've been seeking to deal with these issues, but I admit I wasn't keenly aware of how far my protectiveness of "personal space" had impacted our marriage, down to the way I sleep next to her at night (back turned, arms crossed over my chest, avoidant; and I actually sleep better alone). It's been tough to admit the extent of this to myself, and although I've been very open with friends and my wife about the realities of trauma-linked PTSD, I never looked objectively at the behaviors I accept as "normal" that stem from these childhood experiences. These things are not even conscious most of the time; they are evolved survival behaviors that I've been terribly unaware of, particularly as they impact by my wife.

This isn't healthy in a marriage, and I've begun engaging her in conversation around these issues and seeking out the resources and help I need to move past these behaviors. At the same time (and not to be self-pitying, this is about my wife's happiness and right to a healthy marriage, not me ultimately), over the last couple days I admit I've felt like an unfixable piece of wreckage, and I find myself honestly questioning whether a marriage was the right choice at this time in my life, given that I hadn't put the work in to be a healthy partner. As part of the upcoming conversations with my wife, I intend to assure her I've identified these issues as unhealthy, will be seeking resources and help and actively working to change, but I also feel I need to let her know that I wasn't ready to be a healthy partner, seek her forgiveness, and offer her the opportunity to separate without hurt feelings on my side if she feels it is the healthiest option for her. No one should be compelled to stay in a relationship with someone who is not emotionally healthy, and despite all the BS I overlay on the issues I've mentioned here, I do love her enough to want her wellbeing and happiness above anything.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> OP, so have you got a group of male friends you can run this by? What do they think?


Yes, but I probably need to unpack it in greater detail with them. I've been a little vague or even flippant in discussing these situations before, so their reaction has been along the lines of "you shouldn't eff up like this again, but she also needs to be willing to move forward with you if you are putting in the work." I think it deserves a deeper conversation than I have given it though.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MVPetri said:


> I admit I've felt like an unfixable piece of wreckage ... I also feel I need to let her know that I wasn't ready to be a healthy partner, seek her forgiveness, and offer her the opportunity to separate


Don't self-sabotage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read sokillme's posts over and over again.....he nailed it.
> 
> Your boundaries are poor.....that's your root issue. You don't want to deal with that and thus nothing gets resolved.
> 
> ...


But he should probably be single. The problem with spouses reading communications between friends is that it doesn't just breach the spouses privacy which she may have some good reason to breach, but it breaches the other party's privacy. I mean the spouse could be vindictive and read something real personal that had nothing to do with cheating or anything and spread that all over town about one of his friends. It's not just between the two of them. At a bare minimum he would need to notify his friends she was reading everything so that if they had something they needed to discuss that was really private they could do it over the phone and not have some insecure spouse out there armed with information they're not entitled to.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But he should probably be single. The problem with spouses reading communications between friends is that it doesn't just breach the spouses privacy which she may have some good reason to breach, but it breaches the other party's privacy. I mean the spouse could be vindictive and read something real personal that had nothing to do with cheating or anything and spread that all over town about one of his friends. It's not just between the two of them. At a bare minimum he would need to notify his friends she was reading everything so that if they had something they needed to discuss that was really private they could do it over the phone and not have some insecure spouse out there armed with information they're not entitled to.


I assume everything i share with my married friends will be shared with their spouse.....I just can't imagine asking them to keep secrets like that.

They don't have to tell me that their spouse might read or be told things because I assume they will be told.

But I agree he should be single and I wish him luck finding a woman who is ok with his boundaries. I suppose they're out there but his pool of possibilities is going to be significantly reduced. A single guy can surround himself with all the "platonic" female friends he wants.

I know I wouldn't put up with 5 close female friends that he shares personal business with regularly but I'm not entitled to know about any of it because... ..privacy.

Especially if they'd already demonstrated they couldn't be trusted. Then throw in social media sniffing and I'm not surprised she still doesn't trust him.

And he's upset because he's only willing to do so much and it's not enough. I think a lot of people would feel just like his wife.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yeah I don't blame her for not trusting him.

My approach if I didn't trust opposite sex friends would always be to invite them over to dinner or something. because you can pretty quickly assess the dynamic between them and they can see what the dynamic is between him and you. It may weed them out or slow them down at least. They may show up with a date and you end up being friends, or you may stop viewing them as a threat. or you may detect some real tension there and then at least you know who your enemies are.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MVPetri said:


> I don't share texts or phone convos with anyone (not just my wife) except the person on the other end. For me, that's a form of respect for both myself and the other person in the conversation, but it's apparent it may be something I need to learn to adjust. A lot comes down to perception - for me it feels inappropriate and borderline creepy to intrude into someone else's personal conversations. Maybe I'm wrong on this and need to be ok with sharing my texts, emails, etc., and also becoming comfortable reading hers.


The problem here is that a female friend may see it differently. That you are not happy with some parts of your relationship with your wife and that is the hole that she's going to move into.

Some women really know no boundaries and they may not even be interested in a sexual relationship. Even emotional affairs are destructive. And the value that a woman gets from it is attention and other without having to put out.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah I don't blame her for not trusting him.
> 
> My approach if I didn't trust opposite sex friends would always be to invite them over to dinner or something. because you can pretty quickly assess the dynamic between them and they can see what the dynamic is between him and you. It may weed them out or slow them down at least. They may show up with a date and you end up being friends, or you may stop viewing them as a threat. or you may detect some real tension there and then at least you know who your enemies are.



Agreed. I've always made it a point of befriending the wife of my male friends....that goes a long way.

I think it's somewhat trashy to maintain an opposite sex friendship and not include the spouse. I even stopped talking to an old male friend (never dated) because he came through my city and stopped by my work for lunch, during which time his wife called and he lied about where he was. I want no part of stuff like that.....I'm either a couple friend or nothing.

One of my close gf's was actually a work friend of my ex hb....she understood how this works and befriended me. Not only did I not care if he spoke to her.....we're now divorced and she and I are still very close. In fact her mother just passed away and she called me for support during her illness, and I was there for her. Guaranteed she's much better off with me than my poor boundary having ex, and her now husband is comfortable with me so everybody's happy.

I think the difference between our approaches is that I see it as the osf's responsibility, not the spouse, to initiate the friendship. That goes a long way towards demonstrating intentions.

I wonder if any of the female friends of OP are married and if so do their husbands know the extent of their contact? Are they ok with their wife sharing snd hearing personal things with/from another guy?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's kind of a red flag if they don't bring their opposite sex friends around and openly introduce you to them and let you get to know them. But if I was having suspicion problems and they were not doing that, then I would take it upon myself. 

Decades ago I had this sort of a boyfriend and at the time I didn't understand he had ED. All I knew is he hung around like a boyfriend but never slept with me. This went on for a long time. But he would disappear for some amounts of time and one time he was gone longer than usual. I can't remember how I found out but I had quite a grapevine back then with a big circle of friends and I found out he was hanging out at this one woman's house named Helen a lot. I knew where Helen worked, and she was just an acquaintance of mine but she was a good friend of a close friend of mine. 

So I went to where she worked which was a nice lounge that served appetizers and she was the cook for them. So we sat down and had a good old chat. Part of the reason he was staying with her so much is because she was a really good cook. And she knew that. 

anyway she and I ended up friendly acquaintances and after he moved out of state and came back for a visit we all went out to dinner together. I'm all for expanding my circle of friends and bringing people into the circle when possible and I think it's more effective than some of the other reactions you can have.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I've always made it a point of befriending the wife of my male friends..


I've tried that. For it to work, the friend's wife needs to want some sort of friendship with you. I have tried when inviting them as a couple directing the invitation to the wife. Sometimes they'll respond and sometimes not.

But I do feel that if a woman wants any time around my husband she's got to humor me. of course, in the UK it was awful. A couple of women who knew him first actually told me that their friendship with my husband has nothing to do with me. one woman who started off as friends with me, I had to come to terms that she was trying to hit on my husband.

I've learned that you can't control other people's behavior. That had to replace my more optimistic belief that people will do the right thing. Especially among a group of friends. Boy was I wrong. So now, if I don't want something to happen, I take control of the situation. If I don't want anyone acting up at a party that I am hosting, then I just won't invite that person. I also chose to have my first wedding in the UK as opposed to hometown because I just knew my mother was going to invite someone that I did not want at my wedding. My first husband was very happy about my choice and my mother was pissed off.

This is why we need boundaries with other people. We don't know what an individual is capable of. Or sometimes we do. Why make it easy for them ..... and hard on you?

MVPetri, you haven't shared with us what these friendships look like? Is there constant contact, likeing, you laughing out loud at something while your wife has no idea what it's about? For example.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> It's kind of a red flag if they don't bring their opposite sex friends around and openly introduce you to them and let you get to know them.


I finally got to the point where I did not want to go out with another woman with my husband when she did not have a date. By the time I made that rule for myself, I was divorced and noticed the new female friends I was making didn't need that kind of boundary.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> I've tried that. For it to work, the friend's wife needs to want some sort of friendship with you. I have tried when inviting them as a couple directing the invitation to the wife. Sometimes they'll respond and sometimes not.
> 
> But I do feel that if a woman wants any time around my husband she's got to humor me. of course, in the UK it was awful. A couple of women who knew him first actually told me that their friendship with my husband has nothing to do with me. one woman who started off as friends with me, I had to come to terms that she was trying to hit on my husband.
> 
> ...


I agree that not everyone's wife will be interested, but making the effort to reach out goes a long way.

I'm certainly not buddies with every wife of every friend I've had, but I also know that just making the effort to reach out has gone a long way towards making them more comfortable around me. Some of them I have nothing in common with anyway.

We women know how women roll and we know the ones who either snub us or show no interest in us while wanting to maintain contact with our men usually have a reason for that.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I think it’s great news that you want to be single, you are anyway and your wife knows it too. Serious question, even though you’ve made your decision, will your ex be relegated to someone you will now be friends with from a distance, will you check her Facebook page and want to maintain tabs on her?
And will you respect her privacy when she moves on if she asks you to stay away or wants nothing to do with you?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

MVPetri said:


> This isn't healthy in a marriage, and I've begun engaging her in conversation around these issues and seeking out the resources and help I need to move past these behaviors. At the same time (and not to be self-pitying, this is about my wife's happiness and right to a healthy marriage, not me ultimately), over the last couple days I admit I've felt like an unfixable piece of wreckage, and I find myself honestly questioning whether a marriage was the right choice at this time in my life, given that I hadn't put the work in to be a healthy partner. As part of the upcoming conversations with my wife, I intend to assure her I've identified these issues as unhealthy, will be seeking resources and help and actively working to change, but I also feel I need to let her know that I wasn't ready to be a healthy partner, seek her forgiveness, and offer her the opportunity to separate without hurt feelings on my side if she feels it is the healthiest option for her. No one should be compelled to stay in a relationship with someone who is not emotionally healthy, and despite all the BS I overlay on the issues I've mentioned here, I do love her enough to want her wellbeing and happiness above anything.


I’m sensing you’re not going to actually come out and break this off and you’re putting it to her to do the work to end the marriage. Come on, as another poster said, man up and leave her. If you genuinely want her to be happy then leave first!!

‘Offer her the opportunity to separate’ ‘this is about her happiness’ translates to ‘I’m not actually going to break up, I’ve never really been invested and I want to be single but I’m going to take the coward’s way out in order for me to be happy but pass the job to the wife’.

Am I right? I don’t think you’re at all worried about her happiness or wellbeing. This is a standard script people use when they want to be the good guy in the breakup. They want out, want someone else to do it for them and avoid the responsibility.

How long have you been in counselling and how has it helped you move forward?

I noticed an inconsistency btw. You originally spoke of regular and close contact with many females but then in your last post you said one message only every couple of months. That doesn’t really indicate deep emotional friendships with regular contact.

Another question that you don’t have to answer - how is your sexuality, are there any issues there? Do you desire your wife, did you have a good sex life consistently with your exes as well? Have you kept all the women at a physical distance given that much of your contact with them might be just online via chatting and Facebook? That would be great for you to explore when you become single so you can be upfront and honest and move into a healthy relationship in your future, so you don’t repeat this cycle.
I’m really looking forward to hearing your progress into your future growth and your healing from PTSD, it’s a heartbreaking and debilitating illness!

And it’s great that your wife will get to meet someone new and soooo into her one day, well done for making a huge step and not dragging her down with you, she’ll be a great wife to someone one day, everything always works out for the best, good luck!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So a way a spouse can help establishing friendship between friends of the opposite sex it to include them in the discussions. When you are talking on the phone with the relay some information for instance when you are on the phone make a point to say to your wife. "Hey talking to so and so did you know that such and such what do you think?", then relay what she says to the friend - "Yeah, wife say you should do this." Doing that automatically establishes that from now on it's the two of you, you and your wife. It says to both the friend and the wife, my wife is here with me, my wife every much a part of my life even in my friendships. 

Bring your wife along when you see that friend at times. The idea for everyone's benefit your wife and your friend is that you are now at team. Then let your friend decide if they are cool with that. But the boundaries will now be established.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah I don't blame her for not trusting him.
> 
> My approach if I didn't trust opposite sex friends would always be to invite them over to dinner or something. because you can pretty quickly assess the dynamic between them and they can see what the dynamic is between him and you. It may weed them out or slow them down at least. They may show up with a date and you end up being friends, or you may stop viewing them as a threat. or you may detect some real tension there and then at least you know who your enemies are.


I love this approach. Good thinking.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> I've tried that. For it to work, the friend's wife needs to want some sort of friendship with you. I have tried when inviting them as a couple directing the invitation to the wife. Sometimes they'll respond and sometimes not.


But see, the very act of inviting them really got you the end result that you needed to know, which is they were not opened having a friendship with you or even an acquaintanceship, so you knew something was off with them. So really it did work. You found out whether she was Friend or foe just by inviting and seeing what her reaction was.


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## MVPetri (Dec 29, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> I think it’s great news that you want to be single, you are anyway and your wife knows it too. Serious question, even though you’ve made your decision, will your ex be relegated to someone you will now be friends with from a distance, will you check her Facebook page and want to maintain tabs on her?
> And will you respect her privacy when she moves on if she asks you to stay away or wants nothing to do with you?


People need to be careful about importing assumptions that are beyond the scope of their knowledge and expertise. At no point did I say "I want to be single" or leave my spouse. If we were to separate, it would be so that I could work through the issues I outlined without exposing her to toxic behaviors, not so that I could pursue other women. 

My wife and I both have indicated to each other we want to remain together. However, it's fair that I unpack for her the full ramifications of the underlying psychological issues that have created toxic behavior patterns on my part, outline in detail my plan to work on them and address them, but also make clear that it is not an expectation that she should have to shoulder the burden of those issues or accept an unhealthy marriage that is less than what she deserves. 

That isn't excusing personal responsibility or "white knighting," it's respecting her as an individual and letting her know clearly that my underlying psychological issues do not excuse my behavior or bad choices, that she is in no way obligated to be exposed to behaviors that are not healthy, and that if she feels it is best for her to separate from the marriage, I will not only respect, but support, her decision to do what is best for her personal happiness and wellbeing. I do genuinely care about her wellbeing. I love this woman and would lay down my life for her in a heartbeat, despite the unhealthy behavior patterns that have prevented me from expressing that to her to the extent she deserves. She _does _come first in my life, even if I am still learning what that means in daily practice.

In any case, the psychological issues are beyond the scope of this forum, so I am going to address it with qualified professional counselors/psychiatrists trained in dealing with PTSD/childhood trauma. 

I do appreciate the sincere advice and feedback from the forum as it relates to other topics in my posts. Much appreciated and much needed.


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## Emmalyne (Dec 30, 2020)

I think the problem is more about your wife's insecurities than with anything you did. I think the texting with the ex-girlfriend at the beginning of you and your current wife's relationship is a very minor infraction. I also don't think looking through your ex-girlfriend's social media pages is a big deal. I feel like everyone has done it. We are all curious how our ex's are doing. I have done it and my husband has done it. As long as you are not sending inappropriate messages to the ex-girlfriends, I don't think there's really anything wrong with it. I'm not sure how much more you can say and do to make your wife feel more secure in your marriage, but I would also venture to say that you guys are still just newly weds and trying to figure this marriage thing out. After a few more years, she should be able to feel more confident and hopefully will not have these unfounded trust issues with you.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

MVPetrie, A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. What a change in apparent attitude in your more recent posts. Obviously, you need to turn your words into actions but I wish you luck for the future.

Personally, I think reestablishing a very solid, loving relationship will be better achieved by the two of you staying together and not separating. I would also make sure you let her help you, especially when things get tough. Don’t feel you have to do this all by yourself, talk to her and be inclusive.

We all have bad patches in our marriages but I hope you will look back on many happy times together in your old age.


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