# I'm worried...



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

So, DH and I(who recently joined this forum) have been going through a rough patch. We moved a few weeks ago from our apartment in the city to a house in the country...a decision that has definitely made a difference in him. He's considerably more relaxed when he's at home, which has made him far more attentive to our relationship than when we lived across the street from where he works. So, all things considered, we're very slowly improving. 

However, there have been a few fights in the last couple of weeks, and they've been pretty bad. The fights in and of themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing...at least we're still attempting to communicate with each other. My concern is over some of the things that are said in these fights. Most of them I can take; a fight is a fight, and I don't expect to derive any emotional satisfaction from them or anything...but in the last one, DH brought up how easily he's let his friendships go; that he didn't do it intentionally, but he made no effort to maintain them and, as a result, he has no real friends left. 

And it's true. I've asked him to hang out with his friends time and time again since we got married, and he's rarely done so. Now, it's not like I expect him to spend the night and things that he did when single, but hanging out with a buddy every other Saturday is a _good_ thing, but he hasn't actually hung out with his friends in over a year. He doesn't FB or myspace or twitter much anymore, and when talking with him during this fight he was really down about how he doesn't have any friends besides me, and he feels really apathetic about it. 

This scares the **** out of me. Firstly, more than anything I was him to be happy and healthy, and not having male friends his age is going to be detrimental to both. But secondly, I'm wondering if this is why he and I have been having so many issues...my number one complaint has been that he's apathetic and doesn't take a proactive approach to our relationship. It's like, if our marriage lasts, then great; if not, oh well. He doesn't actively do his part in helping the relationship last. So, when push comes to shove, is he going to let our relationship fall away too? At what point does he have a responsibility to take action and change his attitude and behavior? Does he even _want_ to? 

I tried asking him why he let his friendships fade, and he didn't have an answer. I've tried asking him why he's apathetic about our relationship, and he doesn't have a reason for that. Now, maybe I've overreacting, but I'm very worried at this point. I've asked him if he thinks he needs counseling, and he's said no, though he has agreed to attend couples counseling...is this an avenue I should pursue? Should I be worried?

Thanks for taking the time, 
C2W


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

my husband is the same way. e left his college friends back at college, our work friends were kept up because I pushed it. But when I stopped, the friendships ended. And in terms of our marriage...oh honey this is something that has angered, hurt and bothered me to no end. It's a general passivity in relationships...and after 28 years I HATE IT! And you will too because if the chips are down on your side, and you need to rely on him to show how important the marriage is, he MUST be able to step up. Or resentments galore.

IC is recommended and NOT enabling his passivity. I don't enable but can't get him into IC.

Good luck with that....


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> my husband is the same way. e left his college friends back at college, our work friends were kept up because I pushed it. But when I stopped, the friendships ended. And in terms of our marriage...oh honey this is something that has angered, hurt and bothered me to no end. It's a general passivity in relationships...and after 28 years I HATE IT! And you will too because if the chips are down on your side, and you need to rely on him to show how important the marriage is, he MUST be able to step up. Or resentments galore.
> 
> IC is recommended and NOT enabling his passivity. I don't enable but can't get him into IC.
> 
> Good luck with that....


I truly don't think he _wants_ things to be the way they are, but neither of us know how to fix it. He's had some really crappy experiences in his life, from both familial and previous romantic relationships, and I think they have cause much of his passivity. I don't intend to enable, but I don't know how to communicate how much I need for things to change without him taking it so personally. In all honesty, there already is resentment and it's been effecting how I treat him, which doesn't help in the slightest. I'm glad he's agreed to couples counseling, but that likely won't address this concern. And, honestly, I don't know if we could afford both couples counseling and individual...

And it's so difficult to be made promises and then not get them followed through. I believe that he truly means the promises when he makes them, but somewhere between making them and acting on them there's some kind of disengagement that creates the apathy and he allows other things to get in his way. When it comes to his family and his job, he follows through on what he says he's going to do, and tries damn hard to get it done. When it comes to me and his friends, we get the short end of the stick. And again, I don't think it's intentional. That's the problem; there's hardly anything intentional about the way he approaches our relationship. I want to help, but I'm so confused as to how...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey Created and Pink:

I bet if we took a poll of spouses there will be one glaring thing about the spouse that we don't like. That thing that makes us say "but they such a good husband/wife in all other respect. Why can't/won't they fix this? They should know how unhappy it make me. I just can't put up with this any longer. If they really care about me they would fix this. I can put up with XYZ but the know this one thing is SO important to me."

Maybe some of us have learn to live with it and it no longer seem glaring. Maybe some of us just feel like the marriage will never be fulfilling as long as it's there, but it's not a deal breaker. But whatever the case may be, we all have that glaring fault that test our spouse limit of what exasperate us so much.

From your posts both of you seem like you have good husbands who care about you and the marriage. When I read what some of these poster say about their spouse (I'm not talking about the obvious trolls) then I'm grateful I don't have to put up with a totally selfish jerk that bring nothing to the marriage and never consider me at all in anything he do.

I'm not trying to say you should rugsweep the issue in your marriage that are important to you. I'm just saying don't lose sight of the fact that you have good men, you not in a sexless marriage and you believe your spouse love you. Just a little something to pause and think about while you try to deal with that glaring fault in your spouse that we probably all have as human.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Hey Created and Pink:
> 
> I bet if we took a poll of spouses there will be one glaring thing about the spouse that we don't like. That thing that makes us say "but they such a good husband/wife in all other respect. Why can't/won't they fix this? They should know how unhappy it make me. I just can't put up with this any longer. If they really care about me they would fix this. I can put up with XYZ but the know this one thing is SO important to me."
> 
> ...


thanks C4E! 

I hear you and on good days I gladly nod my head in agreement. My H is essentially a good guy, not a selfish jerk as many women here have to deal with.

I have said this so damn many times to him argh! His passivity communicates a lack of care and concern on a fundamental level. His inability to communicate feelings, to make an emotional declarative statement, to show emotion in his eyes, makes me feel like I simply am an employee. I know I have trust issues, but he does too, which is why he holds back on everything emotionally risky.

keeping in mind, 28 years here, the continual broken feedback loop makes keeping love alive exhausting for me because while he doesn't promote hatred, he doesn't engender passion when he acts so disengaged and detached.

I would really love to feel passionate love about my husband again!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> I truly don't think he _wants_ things to be the way they are, but neither of us know how to fix it. He's had some really crappy experiences in his life, from both familial and previous romantic relationships, and I think they have cause much of his passivity. I don't intend to enable, but I don't know how to communicate how much I need for things to change without him taking it so personally. In all honesty, there already is resentment and it's been effecting how I treat him, which doesn't help in the slightest. I'm glad he's agreed to couples counseling, but that likely won't address this concern. And, honestly, I don't know if we could afford both couples counseling and individual...
> 
> And it's so difficult to be made promises and then not get them followed through. I believe that he truly means the promises when he makes them, but somewhere between making them and acting on them there's some kind of disengagement that creates the apathy and he allows other things to get in his way. When it comes to his family and his job, he follows through on what he says he's going to do, and tries damn hard to get it done. When it comes to me and his friends, we get the short end of the stick. And again, I don't think it's intentional. That's the problem; there's hardly anything intentional about the way he approaches our relationship. I want to help, but I'm so confused as to how...


What glares out here is the need for unconditional love. This seems to be a sticking point for some people. Like being married means unconditional love so when you say that xyz bothers you you are not giving unconditional love but are criticizing. 

My husband really struggles with this and I'm sorry to admit that at this point I really don't have the patience for his struggle. I feel like he is 55 years old so now would be a good time to start working on stuff that maybe are holding you back.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

On the Friends front.....what about YOUR friends and their husbands/ boyfriends...can you do things with them....with other couples... Arrange something...

Maybe my husband is just weird, but he really never cared to hang with the boys once we met.. .we did most everything together...when he got with his friends, I was there with him..and their GF's too...and now their wives....or vice versa. 

It's important to have friends in our lives....of course....but sometimes they change, move on ..and you meet and make new ones along the way...as a couple.. this is healthy too. 

Congratulations on the house in the country, sounds like he in enjoying this new atmosphere.... maybe you could throw a Picnic & invite some of his friends over one day & their significant others... have a house party....I think I'd try this route to jump start something.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

My husband doesn't have a lot of friends he does things with either. I do more with my friends than he does. If he feels badly letting relationships fade, all you can do is support/encourage him to cultivate friendships. 

I don't think you should compare how he let his friendships fall away to your marriage relationship. Is he doing specific things (or not doing them) that make you feel like he doesn't care about your relationship? If so, I would communicate with him specific ways in which he can improve. 

Remember too, that you can't make him be someone he is not. He might not have an "active," or "passionate" personality. My husband and I are pretty much opposites. I'm fairly high-strung, and he's very easy-going. If I'm unhappy about something, I'll take active steps to change my circumstances or attitude. My H really does not approach things this way. He is very slow to action and he tends to feel sorry for himself instead of making active changes. There is nothing I can do about this. All I can do is support him, and let him know what he can do to meet my needs (if he isn't meeting them).

I just remember what attracted me to my husband in the first place when I start feeling frustrated with him. He'll never be me (thank goodness) and he'll never approach things the way I do. There's a freedom in recognizing this.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Who is 'steering' the relationship C2W?

I hope you understand what I'm asking.

Are you coming up with ideas, plans, goals, and he is simply agreeing?

Or is he voicing what he wants and going after it?

For instance, house in the country. Your idea or his? Don't say both ... somebody suggested it and somebody agreed.

My suggestion for you would be that YOU start seeing friends and leave him to his own devices. 
I'm certainly not going to paint your husband as a NG, but I can tell you as a recovering one, my default setting with my ex used to be, "I want to do what will make you happy. And part of that is I want to be with you rather than leaving you alone."

It is a self-imposed and extremely constrictive dynamic.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Who is 'steering' the relationship C2W?
> 
> I hope you understand what I'm asking.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I know WHY the OP finds this to be concerning and I know that as women we want to make others happy.

But lets be honest here... you cannot make friends for him and you cannot force him to keep those relationships. On top of this.. you cannot be his crutch.

That is not healthy.

He has a lot of the responsibility for losing those friendships.

If I'm getting this correctly he is somehow (during the fight) making you feel like he has no friends because of you/your relationship?


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Hey Created and Pink:
> 
> I bet if we took a poll of spouses there will be one glaring thing about the spouse that we don't like. That thing that makes us say "but they such a good husband/wife in all other respect. Why can't/won't they fix this? They should know how unhappy it make me. I just can't put up with this any longer. If they really care about me they would fix this. I can put up with XYZ but the know this one thing is SO important to me."
> 
> ...


BTW I do agree with you here but if this is turning into a major issue then eventually it will impact their marriage and snowball into something more.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Hey Created and Pink:
> 
> I bet if we took a poll of spouses there will be one glaring thing about the spouse that we don't like. That thing that makes us say "but they such a good husband/wife in all other respect. Why can't/won't they fix this? They should know how unhappy it make me. I just can't put up with this any longer. If they really care about me they would fix this. I can put up with XYZ but the know this one thing is SO important to me."
> 
> ...


((hugs))

Thank you. This is very insightful and wise. I know he's trying. I know he feels horrible for the way things are and is just as confused and lost as I am in what to do about it. I know he hates the passivity. He really is a great guy, and while with someone else I might not face this particular issue, I'm sure I'd face something else that effects me just as much. We're still young, we're still relatively new to the marriage state, and we both still have a lot to learn about how to be good spouses. Sometimes I'm just more sensitive to this issue than at other times, and right now is one of those times.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> thanks C4E!
> 
> I hear you and on good days I gladly nod my head in agreement. My H is essentially a good guy, not a selfish jerk as many women here have to deal with.
> 
> ...


I've used the term "stone-walled" with my husband, and in our big fight he asked what I meant. I'd used it before, and he thought he understood what I meant, and during the last fight he felt that he'd been open and honest with me, and wasn't sure why I thought he was stone-walling me. So, I told him that, while I believe he feels very deeply about our relationship, both good and bad, those feelings are hidden by his exterior. There's no expression for me to connect with those feelings; no link between what I feel and what he feels. It's like there's a wall separating us as far as feelings go, and while he responds in a calm, collected way to what I say, there's very little emotion. It takes me bursting into tears to get any kind of emotional reaction from him. 

He likes to laugh and joke around, and make me laugh, and he likes us to play with each other, and during sex he is, oh, so affectionate and there's no mistaking his feelings then. It's in the serious moments, the potentially romantic moments, that he struggles. Unless he's drunk; then I get all kinds of sweetness out of him. lol. 

Somewhere along the line, whether growing up or in his young adult life, he learned that it wasn't safe to express himself. Now, we're dealing with the consequences.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> What glares out here is the need for unconditional love. This seems to be a sticking point for some people. Like being married means unconditional love so when you say that xyz bothers you you are not giving unconditional love but are criticizing.
> 
> My husband really struggles with this and I'm sorry to admit that at this point I really don't have the patience for his struggle. I feel like he is 55 years old so now would be a good time to start working on stuff that maybe are holding you back.


I think this is part of it. He had issues with his dad growing up and feeling like he wasn't good enough, or couldn't be good enough, and I know I've heard that specific line in each and every fight we've ever had. (Or very close to it) I've tried explaining that having a few faults doesn't mean he isn't good enough, it just means that there are still areas that need improvement. It also depends on how I approach the subject. I have to walk on eggshells when I tell him that something has upset me, otherwise he'll shut down and block me out. And that bothers me because, as an emotionally expressive person, I feel suffocated when I have to disguise how I feel just to get him to talk to me about it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> On the Friends front.....what about YOUR friends and their husbands/ boyfriends...can you do things with them....with other couples... Arrange something...


I could try, but he doesn't really have anything in common with my friend's SOs. My cousin and her husband stayed with us for a few days, and DH got along really well with him. He even said he liked him a lot, which was music to my ears. They live hours away, though, and that makes getting together difficult. 



> Maybe my husband is just weird, but he really never cared to hang with the boys once we met.. .we did most everything together...when he got with his friends, I was there with him..and their GF's too...and now their wives....or vice versa.


I don't expect it to be like before we married, and there are some friends of his I'm glad are no longer in his life. But some of his best friends, that he's had since high school, were good for him, and he seemed happier and more stable when he hung out with them more consistently. More than anything, DH tried to blame me once for not hanging out with his friend and that pissed me the heck off because I'd been telling him, "Hey, it's been a while since you hung out with Tyler. You should give him a call", and then he turned around and tried to blame me for it. 

Not cool.



> It's important to have friends in our lives....of course....but sometimes they change, move on ..and you meet and make new ones along the way...as a couple.. this is healthy too.


Definitely. I've just been waited for this to happen, and it hasn't. 



> Congratulations on the house in the country, sounds like he in enjoying this new atmosphere.... maybe you could throw a Picnic & invite some of his friends over one day & their significant others... have a house party....I think I'd try this route to jump start something.


Not a bad idea! Thanks!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Who is 'steering' the relationship C2W?
> 
> I hope you understand what I'm asking.
> 
> ...


It depends. As far as our relationship goes(emotional needs being met, pursuing sex, etc) I'd say that I do most of the steering. Financially, logistically, etc. I'd say he does the steering. 



> For instance, house in the country. Your idea or his? Don't say both ... somebody suggested it and somebody agreed.


He initially suggested it. 



> My suggestion for you would be that YOU start seeing friends and leave him to his own devices.
> I'm certainly not going to paint your husband as a NG, but I can tell you as a recovering one, my default setting with my ex used to be, "I want to do what will make you happy. And part of that is I want to be with you rather than leaving you alone."


I do hang out with my friends when I can, but since I love him and want the best for him, I don't want to "leave him to his own devices". I know I can't make him hang out with his friends...that's his own choice...I dunno...I'm just worried. 



> It is a self-imposed and extremely constrictive dynamic.


What _is_ an NG, btw?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

bunny23 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I know WHY the OP finds this to be concerning and I know that as women we want to make others happy.
> 
> But lets be honest here... you cannot make friends for him and you cannot force him to keep those relationships. On top of this.. you cannot be his crutch.


I know.  



> That is not healthy.
> 
> He has a lot of the responsibility for losing those friendships.
> 
> If I'm getting this correctly he is somehow (during the fight) making you feel like he has no friends because of you/your relationship?


Not in this fight, no. He hasn't made this implication for over a year, but he did make it at one point. In the fight it was more like he was worried about why he just let his friends slip away, even though he saw that he was allowing it, and chose not to do anything. I think, for the first time, he was really seeing how passive he is when it comes to playing his part in a friendship/relationship, and I think it scared him. But like you said, _I_ can't fix this for him. It has to be his choice. 

And I know momto4 said not to compare his friendships to our marriage, but it's impossible for me to separate the two. He's been very passive in our marriage; not abusive or mean or intentionally neglectful, but passive enough that we've struggled. I haven't been perfect either, but he's been unable to really commit to any kind of positive action towards meeting my needs. He tries for a while, and I think things are changing, and then he gets stuck in a rut. I even went so far as to bribe him with anal sex(his ultimate fantasy), to see if that would make a difference and, while he was definitely excited and giddy about it, it's changed nothing. 

I'm worried that, aside from his family, he'd allow all of his relationships to fade away.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> It depends. As far as our relationship goes(emotional needs being met, pursuing sex, etc) I'd say that I do most of the steering. Financially, logistically, etc. I'd say he does the steering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm just gonna start calling you mini me!

NG= Nice Guy

Deejo hit the nail on the head. The nice guy marries the dynamic involved woman then proceeds to lose himself while trying to make her happy by trying to NOT piss her off. "Don't be selfish, don't cause a scene, don't make demands, don't frighten her, don't challenge her, be a good provider, come home every night, ...." But no where does it say, and leave your authentic self at the door so your desires, wishes, fears and hopes don't cause a conflict.

Mavash had some really good things to say about creating a safe place for her husband in order to help him reconnect with himself. It was in a thread I started and later deleted so I can't direct you to it.

I wish I had recognized just how toxic I was to my husband's sense of safety those many years ago. He came to me already like this but I certainly didn't make things any easier on him.

You, unlike me, still have that deep sense of love untainted by years of resentment. You still have the ability to make this marriage one of balance of two complete people.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Who is 'steering' the relationship C2W?
> 
> I hope you understand what I'm asking.
> 
> ...


So how did you break out of this dynamic? Do you have suggestions for ways a wife might help her husband?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm just gonna start calling you mini me!


 lol. 



> NG= Nice Guy


Ooooh. Thanks. 



> Deejo hit the nail on the head. The nice guy marries the dynamic involved woman then proceeds to lose himself while trying to make her happy by trying to NOT piss her off. "Don't be selfish, don't cause a scene, don't make demands, don't frighten her, don't challenge her, be a good provider, come home every night, ...." But no where does it say, and leave your authentic self at the door so your desires, wishes, fears and hopes don't cause a conflict.


Oh my gosh, yes! I've told him so many times that, even if what he feels towards me is anger or disappointment or hurt, I _want_ to know so that 1) I know he feels things at all and 2) so I can see firsthand how I feels when I do/say certain things. I don't want him to be a jerk, but he can be expressive...he can raise his voice...he can speak with conviction and enthusiasm, with effect. He responds like a robot, and I know it's because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings, but sometimes I'd rather just risk my feelings to know that _he_ feels something. 



> Mavash had some really good things to say about creating a safe place for her husband in order to help him reconnect with himself. It was in a thread I started and later deleted so I can't direct you to it.


Darn. I'm really in need of some good advice like this, cause it sounds like I'm finally getting somewhere. 



> I wish I had recognized just how toxic I was to my husband's sense of safety those many years ago. He came to me already like this but I certainly didn't make things any easier on him.
> 
> You, unlike me, still have that deep sense of love untainted by years of resentment. You still have the ability to make this marriage one of balance of two complete people.


I'm sorry about your relationship.  I want to help him so, so bad, but I have no idea how to! I ask, and he doesn't really seem to know either, or if he does, he's worried about how I'll react.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't have a lot of close friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, and work related people I see. I have a couple friends from the climbing community that I climb and cycle with. But it would be rare for them or me to go to the others house on a Friday for BBQ or to watch a game on Sunday.

One thing I noticed right away when I started living with and later married my wife; while she didn't shut down my ability to have friends at all, little things about her reactions told me that she wasn't really enthusiastic about them. I'd mention that I wanted to go over to Jeff's house and she'd say ok, but she didn't want to go. But something about the tone of her voice told me that wasn't crazy about me going either. It took many years of sitting on the couch alone before I finally decided that her reaction to me wanting to hang out with someone was her issue and to ignore it. But by that time, I found it harder to make truly close friends.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I've never had an issue with his friends. I've wanted them to come over, asked DH to invite them, wanted to hang out with them too...I always worried that I was around them too much. I really don't know what I could have done, if anything, to make him feel like I didn't want him to hang out with his friends, or if he even really feels that way.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

There's a difference between not having an issue with his friends and being enthusiastic about him spending time with them.

Honestly I have no idea how your husband feels. I'm just letting you know for a little perspective how extremely subtle cues affected my thinking years ago. It's just like Deejo was saying. A nice guy, trying to pick up on what his wife wants without asking, and trying to moderate his behavior. The wife's intent doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the husband's perception of her intent that affects his behavior.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I'm glad he's agreed to couples counseling, but that likely won't address this concern. And, honestly, I don't know if we could afford both couples counseling and individual...


Just FYI, but if you do decide to go to counseling, most will meet with you together and separately as part of the regular counseling experience. The counselor needs to get everyone's unfiltered story, and that often doesn't happen with the spouse present.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There's a difference between not having an issue with his friends and being enthusiastic about him spending time with them.
> 
> Honestly I have no idea how your husband feels. I'm just letting you know for a little perspective how extremely subtle cues affected my thinking years ago. It's just like Deejo was saying. A nice guy, trying to pick up on what his wife wants without asking, and trying to moderate his behavior. The wife's intent doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the husband's perception of her intent that affects his behavior.


Would it help or make things worse if I asked him if I had ever made him feel like I didn't want him hanging out with his friends? As far as I know, I've only, ever, been enthusiastic about his friends, but that's just from my perspective, not his...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Just FYI, but if you do decide to go to counseling, most will meet with you together and separately as part of the regular counseling experience. The counselor needs to get everyone's unfiltered story, and that often doesn't happen with the spouse present.


Oh, okay. I didn't know they did this. Thank you. That makes me feel a bit better...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Would it help or make things worse if I asked him if I had ever made him feel like I didn't want him hanging out with his friends? As far as I know, I've only, ever, been enthusiastic about his friends, but that's just from my perspective, not his...


I'm no counselor, for sure! I'll tell you though, that it seems to me that maybe you take the bull by the horns and push him a bit to spend time with the guys. I don't know....to me, asking if you ever did anything wrong in that regard would just be awkward.

For the record, I'm probably not a great example. The funny thing is that my dad has a lot of very close friends, so we're different in that regard. But then, he lives in the same small town where he grew up. I live 3,000 miles away. I moved at a very young age (17) when I joined the service. I think part of my issue is also that I've never made friends as an adult on the same level I did as a kid. All of my closest friends are guys I grew up with and they all live a long way away. With my father, most of his closest friends are guys he grew up with. They just happen to live close so he sees them all the time.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Hey Created and Pink:
> 
> I bet if we took a poll of spouses there will be one glaring thing about the spouse that we don't like. That thing that makes us say "but they such a good husband/wife in all other respect. Why can't/won't they fix this? They should know how unhappy it make me. I just can't put up with this any longer. If they really care about me they would fix this. I can put up with XYZ but the know this one thing is SO important to me."
> 
> Maybe some of us have learn to live with it and it no longer seem glaring. Maybe some of us just feel like the marriage will never be fulfilling as long as it's there, but it's not a deal breaker. But whatever the case may be, we all have that glaring fault that test our spouse limit of what exasperate us so much.


This. There is a saying: "You like someone for their good qualities and love them for their faults."


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't have a lot of close friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, and work related people I see. I have a couple friends from the climbing community that I climb and cycle with. But it would be rare for them or me to go to the others house on a Friday for BBQ or to watch a game on Sunday.
> 
> One thing I noticed right away when I started living with and later married my wife; while she didn't shut down my ability to have friends at all, little things about her reactions told me that she wasn't really enthusiastic about them. I'd mention that I wanted to go over to Jeff's house and she'd say ok, but she didn't want to go. But something about the tone of her voice told me that wasn't crazy about me going either.* It took many years of sitting on the couch alone before I finally decided that her reaction to me wanting to hang out with someone was her issue and to ignore it. But by that time, I found it harder to make truly close friends.*


So Damn TRUE!!!

This is so my husband and it bugs me to no end. I am NOT chewing him out or throwing a hissy fit. Just because I may not be thrilled doesn't mean I am disgusted. I felt like saying "grow a pair man!" 

But now I know better. When he voices an opinion I encourage him. When he says he has plans to play golf, I ask if he needs a BJ so he is relaxed and can concentrate better, of course I ask this as he's gathering his stuff... I do love to tease him!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm no counselor, for sure! I'll tell you though, that it seems to me that maybe you take the bull by the horns and push him a bit to spend time with the guys. I don't know....to me, asking if you ever did anything wrong in that regard would just be awkward.


So, instead of bringing it up, do as SA said and covertly create an opportunity for them to rekindle their friendship? If I invited them over, I'm sure they'd come...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> So, instead of bringing it up, do as SA said and covertly create an opportunity for them to rekindle their friendship? If I invited them over, I'm sure they'd come...


Personally, I'd react well to that.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> This. There is a saying: "You like someone for their good qualities and love them for their faults."


I love him to death; I love who he is, I love his personality...I'm just concerned that he's misunderstood my meaning all these years...and don't know how to correct it if he has...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Personally, I'd react well to that.


Okay...good to know. I don't think he'd react poorly...


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

I noticed my husband doing the same thing after he separated from the military. He had a built-in set of friends while he was in, but once he was out and not living in the barracks it was harder for him.

I began to invite him over to my married friend's homes with me. It sounds silly but I "made" friends for him. Not necessarily setting up playdates for him with other men but just introducing him and letting the chips fall where they may. He ended up making several good friends that way. 

At first he asked if I was doing it on purpose, you may get asked that; I always responded with "no, but that would be a bonus". So far it's worked out pretty well, and we have "couple" friends now, but I wouldn't have been offended if it hadn't worked that way.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

That's another good idea...if he'd actually make the effort to hang out with them too.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, I contacted his best friend and asked him to come hang with us. I made the invitation very casual and, hopefully, his friend will respond positively. I'm just not sure how to tell hubby about it...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There are some areas of our relationship where I have to lead. Our social life is one of them. It has worked out well for us...he lets me lead on this one and he follows happily, knowing I'm just "better" at certain things. He knows it is important that we both maintain our friendships and family relationships...but he just isn't good at fascilitating those maintenance actions. 

I am very good at those actions, so I take over.

So what I'm getting at...I do sometimes just reach out to his friends (they are my friends, too) and make plans for all of us, then I just put it on the calendar and tell him about it. I also put all of our family get-togethers, dates, my separate plans with my girlfriends, and other plans on our calendar. He likes seeing that we have a full calendar, but he also likes that he didn't have to do anything to get it full.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PS...what's with the gun, Missy Bad Ass?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

LOL. I like my guns.  It's one thing that I still have remnants of from my boot camp days.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Sounds like much ado about nothing. If he wants friendships, let him be a big boy and manage them on his own. 

How humiliating is it to have his wife act like mommy and arrange play dates and facilitate?

I would just arrange time to spend with my own friends and let him figure out what he WANTS to do with his time. Some folks are ok with alone time and others seek out social interaction. Neither is right nor wrong.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Moulin said:


> Sounds like much ado about nothing. If he wants friendships, let him be a big boy and manage them on his own.


But, as his wife, shouldn't I try to help when I can and if he wants it? He's not happy about losing his friendships, or about the apathy he has towards them.



> How humiliating is it to have his wife act like mommy and arrange play dates and facilitate?


 I'm not acting like his mother, I'm trying to help him. And, if in the past, I've done things or sent signals that I didn't want him hanging out with his friends, it's important that I do the opposite now to show him that I really _do_ want him to hang with his friends. 



> I would just arrange time to spend with my own friends and let him figure out what he WANTS to do with his time. Some folks are ok with alone time and others seek out social interaction. Neither is right nor wrong.


Right, but since I know my husband and he's never been the alone type, I'm worried about _why_ he's pushed his friends away; it could be something I've done or said in the past and, if so, I want to make amends and help him get his friends back.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Simply my opinion but it sounds very controlling. After getting married, I stopped interacting with a lot of my friends for my own reasons.

If my husband did what you're doing, I'd find it annoying and overbearing.

If it's important to him, I'm sure he'd figure a way to prioritize it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Moulin said:


> Simply my opinion but it sounds very controlling. After getting married, I stopped interacting with a lot of my friends for my own reasons.
> 
> If my husband did what you're doing, I'd find it annoying and overbearing.
> 
> If it's important to him, I'm sure he'd figure a way to prioritize it.


So, if your husband communicated his concern over letting his friends slip away from him, and realizing that he allowed it to happen and that he didn't know why, you would just shrug and leave him to figure it all out on his own? You wouldn't be concerned? You wouldn't try to help? Even if the behavior(the apathy) wasn't normal for him? You'd just assume that he'd figure it out if he wanted to?


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> So, if your husband communicated his concern over letting his friends slip away from him, and realizing that he allowed it to happen and that he didn't know why, you would just shrug and leave him to figure it all out on his own? You wouldn't be concerned? You wouldn't try to help? Even if the behavior(the apathy) wasn't normal for him? You'd just assume that he'd figure it out if he wanted to?


I would listen and talk it through with him, not take control of the situation for him. Suggesting things that he can do is much different than arranging social interaction FOR him. See the difference there?

Again, once you discuss it, IF it is important he'll make time for it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah...diffusing arguments is something I definitely am not good at. lol. But thanks for the book suggestion! I want to help, but in the right way. I want him to be empowered about his life, not dependent.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> There is empathy and there is rescuing/enabing.
> 
> Do you know the difference?


I think so...my confusion is, does helping count as enabling? Is presenting him with the opportunity to rekindle this friendship enabling? I mean, I get that if I did it over and over and over it could become a pattern he's dependent on, but a one-time thing to get pass the discomfort of trying to talk to a friend he hasn't seen in nearly a year?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Moulin said:


> I would listen and talk it through with him, not take control of the situation for him. Suggesting things that he can do is much different than arranging social interaction FOR him. See the difference there?


Yeah I do...I guess I don't see a one-time thing as enabling. 



> *Again, once you discuss it, IF it is important he'll make time for it.*


This hasn't been my experience. If it isn't his blood family or his work, even if it's important, it won't always get his attention/effort.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> I think so...my confusion is, does helping count as enabling? Is presenting him with the opportunity to rekindle this friendship enabling? I mean, I get that if I did it over and over and over it could become a pattern he's dependent on, but a one-time thing to get pass the discomfort of trying to talk to a friend he hasn't seen in nearly a year?


That is definitely rescuing. 

Think of it as allowing him to build a muscle that hasn't been worked in a while. By him reaching out to that friend and finding that it's not that hard, it creates a success for him to build on.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Apathetic, passive men will let women like us run their lives. At first it sounds good but later they resent us for it. If you want him to be empowered you will have to back up and give him space to fail. And that is HARD to do!!!


Bingo!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Apathetic, passive men will let women like us run their lives. At first it sounds good but later they resent us for it. If you want him to be empowered you will have to back up and give him space to fail. And that is HARD to do!!!


It's so confusing because he's not always apathetic and passive. He's a very hard worker at his job, and he does whatever he can for his sister and his parents/grand parents. I admire that about him. But our marriage, or at least specific aspects of it, and his friendships...we just don't get the same effort.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Moulin said:


> That is definitely rescuing.
> 
> Think of it as allowing him to build a muscle that hasn't been worked in a while. By him reaching out to that friend and finding that it's not that hard, it creates a success for him to build on.


True...I've always thought of him as the strong one, too, so this is just...getting to me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I always learn something when I read Mavash's posts. She's definitely in my top 5 favorites. I wish she would come over on Thursday nights for "stitch-n-b!tch"© with my wife (knitting night).


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Yes helping, offering solutions, taking action is enabling.
> 
> It's like making that appointment, looking up AA meetings, driving the alcoholic there, doing everything so they don't have to DO anything. That is enabling.
> 
> ...


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> True...I've always thought of him as the strong one, too, so this is just...getting to me.


This doesn't mean he isn't strong. I'm a bit puzzled that you're taking this all so personally.

I cannot be responsible for someone else's happiness. I can only be responsible for what I do to contribute to our relationship. Their happiness or lack there of, is up to them.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Moulin said:


> This doesn't mean he isn't strong. I'm a bit puzzled that you're taking this all so personally.
> 
> I cannot be responsible for someone else's happiness. I can only be responsible for what I do to contribute to our relationship. Their happiness or lack there of, is up to them.


I'm not taking it personally, so much as I'm just anxious for him. He was really broken when he brought all of this up, and I'm a very nurturing person so I feel pain when those I love feel pain. I don't like the idea that he could, potentially, decide just not to have any friends.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> He IS strong it's just buried or he leaves it at the door when he gets home. Likely due to childhood and/or the way you've trained him.


So, how do I un-train him?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This is not your problem.
> 
> It's HIS.
> 
> ...


It's not the failing that bothers me, it's the giving up. And, while the issue may not be my issue, he's my husband so I will always see his problems as my problems. Not necessarily to fix, but they _will_ effect me. I can see I'm going to have to learn not to act on how I feel when it comes to his decisions, but they will still effect me.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> It's not the failing that bothers me, it's the giving up. And, while the issue may not be my issue, he's my husband so I will always see his problems as my problems. Not necessarily to fix, but they _will_ effect me. I can see I'm going to have to learn not to act on how I feel when it comes to his decisions, but they will still effect me.


Yes, their problems and decisions affect us as their wives but we cannot 'fix' them. Neither would I want my husband to 'fix' me. I like it when we talk through a solution and at the end, if it's something I want to do, I do it.

There are times where I think I want to do something but if I don't do it, well, then it wasn't as high a priority for me. 

If he's unhappy about it, it's up to him to fix that. Either accept that as a choice or reach out to some friends.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I get what Mavash is saying...and I also liked the book Surrendered Wife. I also think you (created) should read No More Mr. Nice Guy...to see how NG's tend to lean on their wives to do everything for them. The NG has to learn to do things himself/lead more in the relationship....and the feisty wife has to learn to surrender. These are great concepts.

But at the same time...my husband simply adores that I step up and lead in this area of our relationship. He wants me to do this part. Kinda like he wants me be the one who plans our meals. Too bad I don't like and am not as adept at cooking as I am at social scheduling!

That's why HE has to not control ME and let my skills be used as I see fit. It goes both ways, you know?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I get what Mavash is saying...and I also liked the book Surrendered Wife. I also think you (created) should read No More Mr. Nice Guy...to see how NG's tend to lean on their wives to do everything for them. The NG has to learn to do things himself/lead more in the relationship....and the feisty wife has to learn to surrender. These are great concepts.
> 
> But at the same time...my husband simply adores that I step up and lead in this area of our relationship. He wants me to do this part. Kinda like he wants me be the one who plans our meals. Too bad I don't like and am not as adept at cooking as I am at social scheduling!
> 
> That's why HE has to not control ME and let my skills be used as I see fit. It goes both ways, you know?


This is another reason why I'm so confused...I'm a social butterfly. I like talking to people, and do so at the store all the time, even with people I don't know. I don't expect my husband to be this way at all, as he's naturally more reserved, but where is the line drawn between me being myself and enabling him?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It is a difficult line.

For me, it is easy to blow off meal planning.

But I will never blow off my own social schedule.

My husband gets the benefits of the one *I* enjoy most.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> This is another reason why I'm so confused...I'm a social butterfly. I like talking to people, and do so at the store all the time, even with people I don't know. I don't expect my husband to be this way at all, as he's naturally more reserved, but where is the line drawn between me being myself and enabling him?


In terms of friendships, the plans you make are the plans that are important to you! For instance this friend of his you contacted, you've just effectively arranged a play date for your husband.

To handle this another way would be to simply say, I wish you kept up your friends because having friends is important. Done. The plans you make from now on are family plans or couple plans.

But what's more important is your marriage and how his allowing you to take the lead, drive the bus, steer the ship, bring out issues, research advice, learn new skills, adjust how you do things or say things so your marriage is happier, meanwhile all he has to do is receive your words of wisdom, your new found knowledge, listen attentively but not respond emotionally will wear you down.

I don't know if it's best to focus on how his NG passivity affects the marriage or how it affects his outside life, (as in non work life) first or both at the same time.

I do know one thing for sure, you are absolutely going to meet with success because you are coming to this early in your marriage and you both have such love and respect for each other. 

When you think about it, we married strong men! So strong that they can subvert who they are in favor of being so accommodating as husbands. I mean really..I sure as hell couldn't do that! Well not for this long anyway...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Created2Write said:


> Well, I contacted his best friend and asked him to come hang with us. I made the invitation very casual and, hopefully, his friend will respond positively. I'm just not sure how to tell hubby about it...


Maybe you should have 'something you need to do' when the friend comes over. 

In other words C2W, write yourself out of that equation. 

Hope this makes sense without insinuating you are doing anything wrong, but if part of his withdrawal from his friends is identity based because now he perceives himself as 'us' instead of 'me', you injecting yourself into hanging out with he and his friend subtly reinforces the concept that there is no more 'me', there's just 'us'.

Does that make sense?


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Is it possible that "friends" just aren't a priority in his life?

I can see him saying "I haven't seen so and so in 3 years and I should get in contact with him" Then, not act on it. I'm the same way. It never seems to happen. Probably because it's not a priority for me. 

Friends just aren't a big deal to me. My wife and family come first. I am very social with people I work with, the neighbors, strangers too. But, when it comes to my free time (what little I have) I prefer to spend that time with my wife and/or family. 

Maybe, he's quite happy with that? 

At any rate, I wouldn't be very happy if my wife "arranged" a get together without speaking with me first. 

Ironically, friends are very important to my wife and I'm always encouraging her to get out and have some fun! Haha


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Maybe you should have 'something you need to do' when the friend comes over.
> 
> In other words C2W, write yourself out of that equation.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, it makes perfect sense. I was already planning on having a mother-daughter date that day, and pretend I forgot his friend was coming over. That way there's no way I can interfere in any capacity; what they do is up to them, what they talk about is up to them, and whether or not they plan for a second get together is up to them.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Created2Write totally off point but did the Customer Service job work out for you?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

No, it was pretty clear when we talked that he's not happy about not seeing his friends. If he does get upset, then I won't do it a second time. And, at that point, I guess I'll have to learn how to be supportive without taking any actions to help him out. He does have other priorities that he considers important, like having enough time to workout during the week, so I'm sure time management is playing a part here.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Created2Write totally off point but did the Customer Service job work out for you?


It did, actually...so much so that it offered me the opportunity of getting an even better paying Customer Service job that I start in a few weeks.


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## Wendih1963 (Sep 12, 2013)

I am worried also. My husband was has not been happy with our marriage for many months now, came to me this morning when I woke up, and was having my morning coffee and giving our 4 dogs their treat and going to potty, and said that he was moving to mother house for a few weeks, months to see if he "still in love with me and if he wants to continue our marriage". I was not shocked about the time away but I was shocked that he could not say that he was still in love with me. We have had some serious trouble in the past few months with his drug addiction and abuse. I had to hospitalize him for a week. Then he wanted to stop his pain pill addiction and go to a rehab facility. He has done neither. Now he wants to leave me. What the hell is going on? He says that he just needs time to make life decisions. I am his 3rd wife. I don't know if that means anything. I don't know if he has met anyone new. I don't think so. We have not had sex in a year. He can't get it up without the blue pill. I am just depressed and bewildered. I have done everything in the world I could to help him. Our family situation is hard. My children are not OK. Daughter is not working and has PKD and my son if just trying to survive as he has very bad depression and needs to go to a place that can help him. I have to talk to him about this. Please send me any and all advice.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Wendih you have a very serious situation that deserves its own thread. I suggest you copy your post to the general section. You'll get a lot of advice there.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

When I got with W, and after DDay, I gave up all my friends except one, who I've known for over 30 years. Even family has shunned me, because I stayed with this horrible woman. So I don't get out much, either. I prefer to be in my shell. The real world sucks.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

4 months ago you asked if you should be concerned about your husband not grieving over you miscarriage. Perhaps this is your answer? Social changes are a definite part of grieving. What will be particularly hard for him is if he won't let himself grieve over the loss.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

That could be...he's not a very emotionally expressive guy, unless it's positive emotion, so this could be his way of handling grief. I dunno...

On a more positive note, he just a major promotion at work. Went from being the Tools and Equipment lead to being the Fleet Manager, and the T&E Manager. He's asking for a raise today. And he deserves to get one!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Awesome!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

He should be in this meeting for his raise right now.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Fingers crossed! Everyone loves more muneeee.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

No kidding! lol.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Created,

I just came on this thread and can see that it's run its course, but I thought I'd put something out there from my own experience. I'm kind of a NG (but not overly so) and W is very outgoing. I have never deliberately neglected my friendships for fear of her reactions, but there has been more than one occasion in which she has "hijacked" the friendship that started out as my own (sometimes dating back to before W and I met) and become its primary custodian, imposing her standards for maintaining a friendship over mine. Therefore, I'm now reluctant to involve her in those friendships I have that I truly value as my own.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks, Philat. Every perspective helps me. I can't say as I ever really did _that_, but it can't hurt to examine things through that lense.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I always love your avatar pics, Created! So cute! I love seeing love personified.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

This new one is a fave. We were getting ready to go see Trans-Siberian Orchestra with my mom and bestie. I was more in shape there, and very tan. Now I'm out of shape and pasty. rofl.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ahhh the benefits of living in Oregon...top of the list, pasty white skin!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

So, no raise yet but it's not a definitely "No". One of his superiors is out of town and needs to be there to weigh in on the decision, so he should know more next week. But he did get a company vehicle!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

LOL, I know, right? I want to get back into tanning but it costs a bit to start up and I'm saving my money for hair extensions for my b-day. I'll have long hair for the first time ever! Whooo!


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