# I feel so sad and lonely, a bit of a rant.



## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

I am so sad and lonely in my marriage. I feel like I don't even exist to my wife. this is been going on for several years now. I feel like it is reached head I just can't do it anymore. We have seen a counselor a few times, me a few times more.I have an issue that I just don't express my emotions or tell her how I feel.when I do try and talk to her I'm told I'm wrong or stupid in my feelings.my wife has a serious problem with codependency, everybody in the world seems to matter to her more than I.I know we are both at fault, with me just turning inward and not talking anymore does not help the situation. But how can I give her what she needs, if I don't get what I need.on our date nights or any evening when we do have time together, she would rather be on your phone texting friends or people she thinks need her help.

the counselor we're seeing tends to agree with me on a lot of things. I feel so bad and lonely, and started to lose interest in her physically and emotionally.that's what upsets me, I want what we used to have.I feel like I am checking out of the marriage thing that scares me.its to the point that I would give up everything in my life, houses cars money just to get away and start over again. I am so emotionally and sexually frustrated with the situation. I just don't want to live like this anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry you're having such a hard time. Before you do anything, I need you to read a couple of books They will probably change your view on everything. The first is No More Mr Nice Guy. The second is Married Man Sex Life Primer.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then, at the same time, use those counseling sessions to figure out WHY you can't express your emotions. That will have something to do with your childhood, parents, etc. Figure out what it is, so you can DISMISS it as you are now an adult and no longer need to use the techniques you learned to protect yourself as a child any more.

One of the first ways you can combat this is to use a Talking Stick. Once a week, sit down with your wife for a brief State Of The Marriage talk. You are both allowed to state anything you feel about the marriage - good, bad, ugly. If you need it, use an actual stick, a "Talking Stick" - whoever holds the stick gets to talk and no one can interrupt him/her.

Then you go away for the rest of the week and think about what was said and ask yourself if you need to address what was said.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Three book suggestions for you.

1) When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. By M. Smith
2) No More Mr. Nice Guy. By R. Glover
3) How to Have That Difficult Conversation You've Been Avoiding: With Your Spouse, Adult Child, Boss, Coworker, Best Friend, Parent, or Someone You're Dating. By Henry Cloud (Author) , John Townsend 
0r 3) Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most. By Douglas Stone

Are you in individual therapy?

How long have you been married?

Do you think the marriage counselor is good?

Don't just walk away from everything. That is a "flight" response, which is an emotional reaction not a rationally thought out action. If you get to the point where your wife just is not the right match for you, you will know it logically as well as emotionally. I think you have a little bit further to go before pulling the plug on your marriage.


----------



## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.

I have read Married man sex life, and already do a lot of what he says, or tired it at least. Didn't seem to help much.

As far as communication, I am pretty good at that. The issue is when I tell my wife something like "I feel like your not interested in spending time with me", I get one of two replies 1) Your stupid to think that. or, 2) Your wrong. It basically just puts up a wall and there is no communication with her. Our counsuler even asked me about how I coummnicate, and she though I did have some good skills, as I never accuse or say " your or you", always I feel or I think. But, it always get shot back at me that I am stupid or wrong. The only real communication we get is when we see the therapist. That seems to be the only time she lets me talk or speak how I feel.

We have been married for almost 17 years, a long time. The first 10 where good, the last 7 has gone down hill. She was married once, I was never married and I was also young then. Things change as to what you need over the years I guess.

The therapist has breached the subject of her co-dependency's and she only get mad or denies it. She will go so far out of her way to help what she calls her friends, and most of the friends either use her for their dumping ground as she shows interest or I get the feeling that they almost want to get away from her, but she keeps helping. The therapist gave her a book to read, and she said no she doesn't need it. I used to just ignore it, thought that its her issue and not mine, but seeing now how it does reduce either our time and the quality of our time I feel it should be addressed.

I have always been a quite guy with my feelings, I am not very emotional and always logical in my thoughts. It's just how I am, no hidden agenda to protect myself. When I do open up, and our communication is slightly working, I fill her in on my side. She gets upset and that juts causes more issues. So, I don't go there anymore and just to keep the boat from rocking I guess.

I have said many times in our sessions, that the problems are "ours" not her's or mine. She disagree's, and It's all my fault. I have told her that I don't mind meeting her in the middle to fix things, but I wont do it all, and then she can give me what I need. That's playing games and I will not do that. Our therapist agree's, she...not so much.

Sorry for the rants, been a bad few weeks.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read NMMNG. It's more relevant that MMSLP.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think your first book should be "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty". It directly addresses how to deal with the kinds of things your wife says when you try to talk to her.

And then NMMNG. It goes hand in glove with WISNIFG. Normally I'd say NMMNG first but you need some verbal tools immediately.

Join the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin for some good support.


----------



## Visual (Apr 12, 2013)

I can't help you because I am in exact situation and I don't know what to do also. I have not try MC yet. I don't want to hijack your thread, but I really feel for you. Good luck.


----------



## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

A quick update, and thanks for the responses.

I have the audio book on No more MR nice guy, about half way through it.

Really cant see myself as a nice guy as the author explains it. 

But, I do tend to not rock the boat with the wife, and have not made my needs clear enough. I will work on that. 

Funny, as in my work place and career I am seen as a bulldozer and have no issue with confrontation or hard discussion. Many I am told fear me or are intimidated by me. I guess just the wife has this hold on me.

So, if the wife does something that I feel hurt by, can I confront her? One issue is the texting when we are on date night or our time. Is it seen as weak saying I am hurt when she does this?

I was always a silent strong type guy, learned that telling your feelings was weak. Am I wrong? DO women see this as week when a guy tells them how they feel?

Anyway, will finish the book and try to work on my items.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't look at it as confronting. Look at it as a team working out a solution that benefits BOTH of you so you can be a happy couple. When she pulls out her phone at the table at the restaurant, gently, calmly, place your hand over hers, draw the phone down to the table, covered, so she has no choice but to look up at you, and you say "Wife, I love you, and I want to spend time with you. When you choose to focus on your phone instead of me when we're having 'our time,' it hurts me. I am asking you to stop doing that." And see what she says.

Telling your feelings is a fine line. Definitely tell her what you think and feel about something (I love it when you do ABC, it makes me feel loved). But don't do it to get a reaction out of her (I'm miserable because you seem to care more about your friends than me). Inform her of your feelings.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I can understand why you stop communicating with her, with the way she responds to you. I hope that NMMNG helps you with learning to be stronger and firmer in your interactions with her. She needs a reality check, that if things continue as they are that you will be gone, and you need to be able to put that out there and mean it. You have to be willing to follow through and end things if changes dont occur.


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Minncouple said:


> A quick update, and thanks for the responses.
> 
> I have the audio book on No more MR nice guy, about half way through it.
> 
> ...


How about telling her that you feel it is RUDE that she is texting while on a date with you. After all, isn't that the truth? Do you feel disrespected? Insignificant? Ignored even? If so, use those words. You don't have to tell her you feel "hurt" when other words are also applicable and truthful.

And yes, If you said it was because "your feeling are hurt", then yes, I would see that as weak. However, if you addressed the issue as a lack of consideration and respect, that would get my attention because it's less whiney.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> How about telling her that you feel it is RUDE that she is texting while on a date with you. After all, isn't that the truth? Do you feel disrespected? Insignificant? Ignored even? If so, use those words. You don't have to tell her you feel "hurt" when other words are also applicable and truthful.
> 
> And yes, If you said it was because "your feeling are hurt", then yes, I would see that as weak. However, if you addressed the issue as a lack of consideration and respect, that would get my attention because it's less whiney.


:iagree:


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Even better.


----------



## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

Well, finished NMMNG last night.

While there are points made about nice guys that I see in myself, I don't feel I got anything out of it, or that I am a nice guy.

I stand up for myself, do what I want (sometimes even if the wife doesn't like it), work hard, not afraid of confrontation, ext...

The only time I resemble a nice guy is when I don't communicate about my needs, emotions to my wife. Basically not because I am afraid to upset, but do to the fact that my wife is a very poor communicator. As mentioned, when I say something about my feelings or needs, I am told I am stupid, wrong, or broken. So, how and why communicate with someone who instantly puts up the stone wall. 

Our therapist has even said to me she is a tough one and communication between is not good. 

I think Basically I just need to do all I can so when I do leave, I have no guilt on myself for not trying. She is in complete denial she even does it. She did it in front of the therapist and then denied it!

Interesting though as I have read MMSL and NMMNG and both have opposite theories on sex. MMSL says be assertive and initiate sex as a man, while NMMNG says stop sex for 6 months, then ask for sex or has a much more non masculine approach.. Really don't understand the different approaches.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Minncouple said:


> The only time I resemble a nice guy is when I don't communicate about my needs, emotions to my wife. Basically *not because I am afraid* to upset, but do to the fact that my wife is a very poor communicator. As mentioned, when I say something about my feelings or needs, *I am told I am stupid, wrong, or broken*. So, how and why communicate with someone who instantly puts up the stone wall.


I will disagree. You ARE afraid - of being told you're stupid, wrong, or broken. If you weren't afraid, you'd keep telling her how you feel, no matter what SHE does. The alpha male speaks his peace, expects what is due to him, and takes actions when he doesn't get it. Sounds like you're just choosing to leave.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Minncouple said:


> Interesting though as I have read MMSL and NMMNG and both have opposite theories on sex. MMSL says be assertive and initiate sex as a man, while NMMNG says stop sex for 6 months, then ask for sex or has a much more non masculine approach.. Really don't understand the different approaches.


NMMNG suggests a sex moratorium so as to break the NG of his pu$$y worship. NGs also tend to equate sex with love, or equate sex with acceptance. NGs tend to use covert contracts and indirect communications. So the NG will sidle up to his wife and give her a hug one afternoon as an attempt to manipulate her into wanting sex, and he then expects her to provide sex that night. When she doesn't, he is crushed by her rejection of him.

She on the other hand is pissed off at his obvious attempt at manipulation and his indirect approach, so the last thing she wants is to have sex with him.

Taking sex out of the mix completely is a way to change his actions and to thought patterns. He interacts more authentically and directly. She stops being irritated at him. They both learn that touch, hugging, kissing, talking, doing chores, doing favors, etc are all good things without there being a connection to sex. He learns he is loved and appreciated even when she does not provide sex.

The moratorium is good when things are quite disfunctional all around. It must be agreed upon by both partners ahead of time, not a stealth moratorium only he knows about.

MMSL is about killing the wimpy beta or omega approach for sex. It is about sex rank, too. MMSL does not deal with the other complications which a couple might be entwined in wrt attitudes about sex. If a NG ups his rank and gets more sex, he may still attach an unhealthy belief to the sex that it means she accepts him and loves him.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

So you say the last 7 years have been going downhill and now to bad. Time to move on. That's way to long to be suffering and unhappy when you have the power to change your life for the better.


----------



## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

Tunera - Thanks for the comments, but your way off. I have no issue speaking my mind or holding my ground. It's about a spouse that has little if any communication skills. I guess I simply see it as I tried/am trying, but its a two way street. SHE must also work on it and better her communication skills. I cant do that for her. Thus, I tried, Failed, and correct may be time to move on.

As I mentioned, I am trying through therapists, reading books, and working on myself so that I can leave with no regrets or feelings that I didn't do all I could. 

Thor- Thanks also for the comments. I understand the differences, but still seems of to me.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> when I tell my wife something like "I feel like your not interested in spending time with me", I get one of two replies 1) Your stupid to think that. or, 2) Your wrong.


Divorce is your answer. 

You're not in a marriage. You're in a mother-child relationship. A bad one too! I don't think your idea of a marriage was to find yourself a new mom was it?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Minncouple said:


> The only time I resemble a nice guy is when I don't communicate about my needs, emotions to my wife. Basically not because I am afraid to upset, but do to the fact that my wife is a very poor communicator. As mentioned, when I say something about my feelings or needs, I am told I am stupid, wrong, or broken. So, how and why communicate with someone who instantly puts up the stone wall.


Your reaction of shutting down is a natural defense mechanism to emotional abuse. The fancy name for what you do is "learned helplessness", though I really don't like that name because it seems to imply you're weak or defective. But you aren't, you are responding normally.

Withdrawing from someone who is abusing you is a normal and healthy response.

If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty", by Manuel Smith. The first part has some philosophy in it which you may find interesting and helpful. The remainder of the book offers some superb verbal skills. Not only do you learn to verbally manage the other person's manipulative or abusive tactics, you will learn to not be affected emotionally nearly so much by them.


----------

