# Men, I want the ugly truth from you.



## LauraF

You'er anonymous on here, and nobody's gonna scream at you for saying it.

So give us some of the ugliest truths about what women don't/should know about men.

This isn't meant to make men look bad. There are things, some things women just dont know about men. What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?


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## unbelievable

a. "yes", we noticed that ****ty woman but we think she's hot.

b. "yes", those jeans do make your butt look big (but it's kinda hot).

c. "yes", if you died, we'd find someone else. We might even find someone interesting at the funeral home. 

d. we truly don't care which curtains you pick out.

e. we don't hear 80% of what you say. Pretending to listen is our plan to get you in the sack.

f. We're embarrassingly simple to maintain. Keep us fed and laid and don't try to talk to us when the TVs on. Stroke our ego and you can have pretty much anything.


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## LauraF

unbelievable said:


> a. "yes", we noticed that ****ty woman but we think she's hot.
> 
> b. "yes", those jeans do make your butt look big (but it's kinda hot).
> 
> c. "yes", if you died, we'd find someone else. We might even find someone interesting at the funeral home.
> 
> d. we truly don't care which curtains you pick out.
> 
> e. we don't hear 80% of what you say. Pretending to listen is our plan to get you in the sack.
> 
> f. We're embarrassingly simple to maintain. Keep us fed and laid and don't try to talk to us when the TVs on. Stroke our ego and you can have pretty much anything.


Exactly like this. Keep em coming, boys!


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## Accipiter777

1. We don't care if the paint is white, eggshell, or ivory.
2. We are not horny dogs... You release Pheromones.
3. Our ego's are as fragile as your view of yourself.

and just to be funny...

4. when you say...

Jen's having a baby, lets go to get some things for her, she doesn't know the sex.

we hear

Jen's having a *baby*, *lets go* to get some things she needs to *have*. she doesn't know the *sex*.


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## unbelievable

No straight non-relative thinks of you as his sister.


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## unbelievable

We don't feel loved without sex, but we're physically capable of having sex without even feeling "like".


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## SimplyAmorous

Get this book..... it will be eye opening - if you really want to understand men's sexuality... 

 Men in Love : Nancy Friday: Books



> This study is a book about men who love women, exploring the secret, erotic fantasies that men have always kept hidden. It is a taboo-shattering investigation which explains to women as well as to men the deepest, most conflicting feelings that men have about women, men and their own sexuality. Based on thousands of candid responses from men ranging in age from 14 through their 60s, this book goes beyond the cliche of the women seen as either madonna or w***e to reveal the conflict of love and rage at the centre of men's emotions.


 Although I agree many men are half listening when the wife talks, I can't say this is true of my husband..... I am probably more guilty of half listening to him at times (if I am on this forum), he has complained before... then he'll say something completely outrageous to see if I am paying attention. I , however, have never felt "half heard" or him being absent. 

I am not an obsessive talker though, it would be difficult to be half listening to me, too much "back & forth" involvement...he would be busted. He is likely different than the norm... I have a true listener in a husband. 

Even if men are against porn, it is still a heavy temptation for the best of men. I would list that as one. 

I agree, men have very fragile egos, they want our respect, and to be praised more than anything... outside of HOT enthusiastic passionate SEX, of course.

And oral sex ranks up with the top 3 things they want in this life.... I remember a thread on here once, most of the women thought that was disgraceful, but almost all the men felt that way, I asked mine that night...Yep.. .he did too!


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## okeydokie

i find it absolutely shocking that my woman could shut off intimacy and expect me to be ok with it


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## Stonewall

I really meant what I said not what you read between the lines and assigned a different meaning to. If I mean something else I will say it!

No, because I love you doesn't mean I should know what you want or need.......Tell me what you want!

We aren't good with hints but we work well with direct statements. Tell us exactly what you want. 

I don't care what color shoe you wear with that outfit. I only care how tall the heel is.

You can beat an egg, you can beat your dog, you beat your kids......But you just can't beat a good blow job!!!!!


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## F-102

Most men have one track minds. We CANNOT engage in a meaningful conversation when the TV is on.

When that pretty girl walked by, YES, we noticed her.

When we talk to women, even in the most conservative, professional business situation, hell, even at a FUNERAL, at least once, for at least ONE SPLIT SECOND, we are wondering what you'd look like naked.


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## chillymorn

silence is golden sometimes.

shut the f*** up and watch the movie!


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## southbound

unbelievable said:


> We don't feel loved without sex, but we're physically capable of having sex without even feeling "like".


Right! Men aren't sex maniacs just because they want to have sex with their wives on a regular basis; it makes us feel wanted and loved.


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## Toffer

No, it's not OK that your mother is here EVERY night when Iget home from work (why can't she pitch in a buck or two for the food she's consumed in the past 10 years?)

Yes, we want oral and are willing to give (at least ost of us) in return

A man is like a linoleum floor....Lay him right and you can walk on him for 40 years (Bret Butler)

If you truly understood the issue of a man's need for sex, how come we don't have more?


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## OldGirl

unbelievable said:


> We don't feel loved without sex, but we're physically capable of having sex without even feeling "like".


I can eaisly understand the first part of that sentence, but I have a hard time understanding the second part. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, I'm just saying its hard for me to wrap my brain around it; it's just so foreign to the way I think.


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## 67flh

if you want me to quit watching porn and getting my release, then quit wearing those damn granny panties,and approach me for sex instead of acting like your some 10th grade virgin


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## SimplyAmorous

67flh said:


> then quit wearing those damn granny panties,and approach me for sex instead of acting like your some 10th grade virgin


Oh this made me laugh, I used to be like this... I would seriously wear these UGLY Boring night gowns like Grandma's wear with the those big pockets on each side, I dressed like a little house on the Prairie woman and kinda had that mentality also - -all about the kids, family. Sex was great but once a week was enough for me. He never said nothing though, he let me go my way. Oh what a shame.



> You can beat an egg, you can beat your dog, you beat your kids......But you just can't beat a good blow job!!!!!


 :rofl: Loved this Stonewall !


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## chaos

OldGirl said:


> I can eaisly understand the first part of that sentence, but I have a hard time understanding the second part. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, I'm just saying its hard for me to wrap my brain around it; it's just so foreign to the way I think.


Once a man is in a loving and committed relationship, sex is an affirmation of the woman's love for him. When the man is not in a loving and committed relationship, then sex is solely pleasure oriented.


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## pjuk

What annoys us most? that sex is so often in your gift, no matter how needy we are.

And yes, we do think of your friends and your sister when we masturbate, but that doesn't mean we want to dump you for them...


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## LauraF

pjuk said:


> What annoys us most? that sex is so often in your gift, no matter how needy we are.
> 
> And yes, we do think of your friends and your sister when we masturbate, but that doesn't mean we want to dump you for them...


You don't have to dump somebody entirely to cheat on them. I think that's why this one is a bit uncomfortable for most.


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## LauraF

OldGirl said:


> I can eaisly understand the first part of that sentence, but I have a hard time understanding the second part. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, I'm just saying its hard for me to wrap my brain around it; it's just so foreign to the way I think.


I completely get that one.
You never wanted to slap and f**k a guy at the same time, and the more he pissed you off, the more you wanted him?


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## Complexity

The last thing a man notices on a woman is her shoes, so stop obsessing about them


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

Stonewall said:


> I really meant what I said not what you read between the lines and assigned a different meaning to. If I mean something else I will say it!


yup


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## Entropy3000

The men at the club are there for two reasons only. 

1) To get laid tonight

2) To hookup with someone longer term.

So if they are hitting on you they are investing time and think they have a chance. While they may enjoy talking to you, that is only a boundary for them to cross to their goals. If there is some weird exception contrived for this, sure. But it is like jumping in a pool and expecting not to get wet. Many men these days on the make see the wedding ring as a target not a barrier.

Sometimes whether you mean to or not you drive us crazy and we just have to have you right f'ing now. It might be what you are wearing or not wearing, the way you walk, or just the way you jiggle or anything else. And please do this on purpose ... often.

Remember that we can very often think from below the waste. Our built in prime directive is to repopulate the planet with people just like us. We can certainly choose to control that urge but it is there. Be careful who you trust with your marriage.


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## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> The last thing a man notices on a woman is her shoes, so stop obsessing about them


:rofl::rofl: No joke!!


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## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> I completely get that one.
> You never wanted to slap and f**k a guy at the same time, and the more he pissed you off, the more you wanted him?


wow


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## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> wow


Yes, it is shocking that there are some men who actually make us long to have sex with them.


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## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Yes, it is shocking that there are some men who actually make us long to have sex with them.


That you were honest. 

That you want to have sex with a man that you are otherwise mad or upset with. We know this to be true. Not many admit it. But are you saying that you only have this urgency with these type of men? 

So this is why some husbands cannot understand the wife showing interest in some low life guy while he is doing everything to love her. I am not talking about Noce Guy syndrome. Some women fall for the guy that literally mistreats them. The sleaze. You are probably not talking about this, but maybe you are.


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## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> That you were honest.
> 
> That you want to have sex with a man that you are otherwise mad or upset with. We know this to be true. Not many admit it. But are you saying that you only have this urgency with these type of men?
> 
> So this is why some husbands cannot understand the wife showing interest in some low life guy while he is doing everything to love her. I am not talking about Noce Guy syndrome. Some women fall for the guy that literally mistreats them. The sleaze. You are probably not talking about this, but maybe you are.


Low-life guy? Guy with tattoos and prison record? no, but:

Someone completely full of themselves. Someone who just touches our deepest desires. Someone whose skin you want to sink your teeth into and makes us realize a part in us we never knew. Someone we wouold throw everything away for just because he is all man, just to touch his skin.

its not about a guy who mistreats me by any means. theres just something about him that sets me on edge and he has a way of provoking my emotions. this provocation seems to set everything free, annoyance, anger, lust. whatever it is that makes me a funcitoning member of society (superficial stuff) is replaced by something deeper within me, the rreal me, the real desires and intuitive, base yearnings. 

its probably different for every woman. i can only speak for myself,

maybe we need to start and ugly truth about women thread :rofl::rofl:


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## Dollystanford

tattoos don't make someone a low life do they? I love tattoos
not so much the prison record


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## LauraF

Dollystanford said:


> tattoos don't make someone a low life do they? I love tattoos
> not so much the prison record


I guess not. 
Dana Scully had one, after all


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## Browncoat

I'd rather get a root canal than go to the mall and shop for clothing with you.... seriously.


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## Entropy3000

It depends. I like to go to the mall with my wife and have her try on clothes that I like. That said, I don't mind the fashion show afterwards depedning on what she bought. Minimal interest in shoes but I'll try to be excited for her.


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## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Low-life guy? Guy with tattoos and prison record? no, but:
> 
> Someone completely full of themselves. Someone who just touches our deepest desires. Someone whose skin you want to sink your teeth into and makes us realize a part in us we never knew. Someone we wouold throw everything away for just because he is all man, just to touch his skin.
> 
> its not about a guy who mistreats me by any means. theres just something about him that sets me on edge and he has a way of provoking my emotions. this provocation seems to set everything free, annoyance, anger, lust. whatever it is that makes me a funcitoning member of society (superficial stuff) is replaced by something deeper within me, the rreal me, the real desires and intuitive, base yearnings.
> 
> its probably different for every woman. i can only speak for myself,
> 
> *maybe we need to start and ugly truth about women thread* :rofl::rofl:


Just go with the flow. 

I actually do understand this. It just was not clear where you were headed with this because women do vary on this. They also may like this guy more during ovulation. 

Some women are attracted to men who mistreat them. 

So you want a confident guy with healthy testosterone levels that is comfortable in his own skin. 

The funny thing is the other night I was particularly into my wife and was pretty lost in passion with her so I was making some noise about it. More than usual. The weather is good so the windows were open. She gets off on this but she started tapping / slapping my face and wanting me to keep it down a little all the time she was giggling and riding her own physical happenings. I came and it morphed into both of laughing. Groaning into laughing. It was great. But yeah she was slapping me and f'ing the heck out of me too. Awesome. Probably not what you meant but it reminded me of this.


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## Dollystanford

Browncoat said:


> I'd rather get a root canal than go to the mall and shop for clothing with you.... seriously.


I'd rather have root canal than take you shopping with me!


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## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> Just go with the flow.
> 
> I actually do understand this. It just was not clear where you were headed with this because women do vary on this. They also may like this guy move during ovulation.
> 
> Some women are attracted to men who mistreat them.
> 
> So you want a confident guy with healthy testosterone levels that is comfortable in his own skin.
> 
> The funny thing is the other night I was particularly into my wife and was pretty lost in her so I was making some noise about it. More than usual. The weather is good so the windows were open. She gets off on this but she started tapping my mouth / face and wanting me to keep it down a little all the time giggling. I came and it morphed into both of laughing. It was great. But year she was slapping me and f'ing the heck out of me too. Awesome. maybe not what you meant but it reminded me of this.


No, I do. i am the queen of roughing one another up a bit.


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## OldGirl

LauraF said:


> I completely get that one.
> You never wanted to slap and f**k a guy at the same time, and the more he pissed you off, the more you wanted him?


Nope.


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## Bluemoon1

The ugly truth eh? 

We really are that easy to work out, I am surprised that most women have not worked us out yet.


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## LauraF

Bluemoon1 said:


> The ugly truth eh?
> 
> We really are that easy to work out, I am surprised that most women have not worked us out yet.


We have figured you out. It's just too darn ugly to want to believe it.
Some things you men do (wanting to sleep with female family members) make it vittually impossible to love you so we pretend its hard to understand why you act how you act just so we dont have to deal with reality


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> We have figured you out. It's just too darn ugly to want to believe it.
> Some things you men do (wanting to sleep with female family members) make it vittually impossible to love you so we pretend its hard to understand why you act how you act just so we dont have to deal with reality


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## LauraF

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


>


just think about it. could you love someone from the bottom of your heart who you couldnt leave alone with your hot mom?


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## Anubis

The day you decided to withhold sex and affection, for whatever reason, was the day the countdown clock started. I can't say how long it will take, and how severe the ultimate consequences will be, but you just threw away something wonderful that could have been between the two of you.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> just think about it. could you love someone from the bottom of your heart who you couldnt leave alone with your hot mom?


i completely agree


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## Bluemoon1

Hang about!

That's not all of us, that's like saying all women are like the aforementioned family members, some men are bad some women are bad, such is life 




LauraF said:


> We have figured you out. It's just too darn ugly to want to believe it.
> Some things you men do (wanting to sleep with female family members) make it vittually impossible to love you so we pretend its hard to understand why you act how you act just so we dont have to deal with reality


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## chaos

LauraF said:


> We have figured you out. It's just too darn ugly to want to believe it.
> Some things you men do (wanting to sleep with female family members) make it vittually impossible to love you so we pretend its hard to understand why you act how you act just so we dont have to deal with reality


Before you believe that this is only done by men, think again. There are quite a few wives who have slept with their BIL (husband's brother), gotten pregnant by them and passed the child(ren) off as their husbands.


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## LauraF

chaos said:


> Before you believe that this is only done by men, think again. There are quite a few wives who have slept with their BIL (husband's brother), gotten pregnant by them and passed the child(ren) off as their husbands.


that is something that happens to some.
but if you have a sister or a friend that looks like megan fox, your husband will want to have sex with her, and thats a fact,

So we have: horror scenario (the one you gave) that could happen,

and ugly truth (men want to sleep with attractive females of your family and friend circle) that is a given in almost all cases. scratch the almost. its a given in all cases.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> that is something that happens to some.
> but if you have a sister or a friend that looks like megan fox, your husband will want to have sex with her, and thats a fact,
> 
> So we have: horror scenario (the one you gave) that could happen,
> 
> and ugly truth (men want to sleep with attractive females of your family and friend circle) that is a given in almost all cases. scratch the almost. its a given in all cases.


LOL
this is laughable


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## LauraF

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> LOL
> this is laughable


laughable how? you do notice and fatasize about other women, whats so crazy about that


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

you in fact did group us ALL into completely sexually driven incestual beings.


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## LauraF

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> you in fact did group us ALL into completely sexually driven incestual beings.


Just looking at it like this to remain cautious in my life.
i know not all men are the same
I am just very wary of the "honey, I am different" syndrome. or the "guys are jerks, but I am not" declaration. it can be true but it more often than not is a maneuvre to get into a womans panties
if you arent like this, thats cool. didnt mean to offend those who dont fit the discription


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## LauraF

chaos said:


> That is true and all based on the comments of one male forum member.


based on most relationship books ever written actually,. theres nothing more sobering than a few chapters on "what men really think" types of books
and its based on the graspable discomfort of seeing your man trip all over himself for a beautiful woman, of course, no mater who that lady is
its okay men are wired this way its not really an accusation


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## chaos

LauraF said:


> Just looking at it like this to remain cautious in my life.
> i know not all men are the same
> I am just very wary of the "honey, I am different" syndrome. or the "guys are jerks, but I am not" declaration. it can be true but it more often than not is a maneuvre to get into a womans panties
> if you arent like this, thats cool. didnt mean to offend those who dont fit the discription


So considering that 67% of all divorces are initiated by women, am I to be weary to believe my girlfriend when she says she believes in marriage and is not in that percentage group?


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## LauraF

chaos said:


> So considering that 67% of all divorces are initiated by women, am I to be weary to believe my girlfriend when she says she believes in marriage and is not in that percentage group?


and 75% of men who were served with a divorce admit to infidelity at some point ni hte marriage
the initiation of divorce might very well often be a reaction to something absolutely unacceptable in a relationship, dont you think?

Divorce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

under "causes for divorce"


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> Just looking at it like this to remain cautious in my life.
> i know not all men are the same
> I am just very wary of the "honey, I am different" syndrome. or the "guys are jerks, but I am not" declaration. it can be true but it more often than not is a maneuvre to get into a womans panties
> if you arent like this, thats cool. didnt mean to offend those who dont fit the discription


this is understandable, just as i am cautious of women because of my past.
but at the same time it doesnt mean i see all women as negative or bad, but i do understand your feelings on this because i know they are not all the same.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> and 75% of men who were served with a divorce admit to infidelity at some point ni hte marriage
> the initiation of divorce might very well often be a reaction to something absolutely unacceptable in a relationship, dont you think?
> 
> Divorce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> under "causes for divorce"


i agree with your point on this.


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## LauraF

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> this is understandable, just as i am cautious of women because of my past.
> but at the same time it doesnt mean i see all women as negative or bad, but i do understand your feelings on this.


and might i add that when it comes down to certain things, its all a matter of biology. Women get their periods, men feel restrained by monogamy
dont make me put up sources :smthumbup:


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LauraF said:


> and might i add that when it comes down to certain things, its all a matter of biology. Women get their periods, men feel restrained by monogamy
> dont make me put up sources :smthumbup:


LOL

you might need to.

i didnt feel restrained by monogamy while my exw had several boyfriends throughout the last 14 years of our marriage. :/


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## Browncoat

Dollystanford said:


> I'd rather have root canal than take you shopping with me!


ha ha, too funny. :smthumbup:


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## Runs like Dog

I really really hate your family.
You can say some incredibly stupid racist things a lot.
I know you can drive, but you are bad at it on purpose.
I'm not paying attention to 80% of what you say and I'm not really interested in 15%.
Why do women seemingly dress like they're either 15 or 75?
You could be a nicer better person if you wanted to
We don't have the same taste, we have your taste; I don't care about it that much
Punctuality is the courtesy of kings, you know.
Most skin lotions smell like chemical warfare. 
Most people can't tell knockoffs from the real deal, you included.


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## LauraF

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> LOL
> 
> you might need to.
> 
> i didnt feel restrained by monogamy while my exw had several boyfriends throughout the last 14 years of our marriage. :/


that's awful, i am saorry to hear that. not the monogamy part, the cheating part


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## LauraF

michzz said:


> It can also point to a cheating wife finally tiring of their deception.
> 
> In this modern world women are now cheating at roughly the same frequency as men do.
> 
> There is no moral superiority by gender.


i am looking at it from a womans perspective, so even if 99% of women cheated, i would still focus solely on what men do , simply because thats what affects me

and by the way, its statistically more likely tat i will get cheated on anyways. If i dont cheat, he must be cheating. :rofl:


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## morituri

According to *Infidelity Facts*, the percentage of women who admit being unfaithful is 54% (compared with 57% for men).




> *Infidelity Statistics *
> Below are compiled statistics on infidelity and marriage:
> 
> Percentage of marriages that end in divorce in America: 53%
> 
> Percentage of "arranged marriages" (where parents pick their sons or daughters spouses) that end in divorce: 3%
> 
> Medical field(s) with the highest divorce rate: psychiatrists and marriage counselors
> 
> Percentage of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%
> 
> *Percentage of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57%
> 
> Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%*
> 
> Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker: 36%
> 
> Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips: 36%
> 
> Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity (emotional or physical) with a brother-in-law or sister-in-law: 17%
> 
> Average length of an affair: 2 years
> 
> Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered: 31%
> 
> *Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%
> 
> Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68%*


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## LauraF

morituri said:


> According to *Infidelity Facts*, the percentage of women who admit being unfaithful is 54% (compared with 57% for men).


infidelity facts - says who?
Whats the study? and dont say peggy vaughan, she is not credible to me. Being a betrayed wife does not a researcher make.


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## LauraF

morituri said:


> According to *Infidelity Facts*, the percentage of women who admit being unfaithful is 54% (compared with 57% for men).


Medical field(s) with the highest divorce rate: psychiatrists *and marriage counselors*


OMFG I almost killed myself laughing at this one :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## chaos

LauraF said:


> Medical field(s) with the highest divorce rate: psychiatrists *and marriage counselors*
> 
> 
> OMFG I almost killed myself laughing at this one :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Does it hit close to home? :scratchhead:


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## LauraF

chaos said:


> Does it hit close to home? :scratchhead:


seriously you dont get why i think its funny?

marriage counselors are on the top of the list for divorcing? what, they cant make use of what theyre selling us??


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## chaos

LauraF said:


> seriously you dont get why i think its funny?
> 
> marriage counselors are on the top of the list for divorcing? what, they cant make use of what theyre selling??


That doesn't come as a great surprise to me considering that marriage counselors do not have such a great track record of saving marriages.


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## LauraF

chaos said:


> That doesn't come as a great surprise to me considering that marriage counselors do not have such a great track record of saving marriages.


Yeah, it doesnt surprise me either i just thought it was poetic justice
I dont belileve in marital counseling, but since its *huge* on TAm i shall shut my mouth now


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## Bluemoon1

I would be careful about quoting infidelity statistics, I think they are at best a good guess, I would say that no really knows.

Fact of the matter is that the majority of infidelity goes undetected.


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## LauraF

Bluemoon1 said:


> I would be careful about quoting infidelity statistics, I think they are at best a good guess, I would say that no really knows.
> 
> Fact of the matter is that the majority of infidelity goes undetected.


That, pretty much to a tee. The huge difference in numbers quotes depending onthe source is al-telling.


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## par4

This is a great and very interesting post
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moxy

Entropy3000 said:


> That you were honest.
> 
> That you want to have sex with a man that you are otherwise mad or upset with. We know this to be true. Not many admit it. But are you saying that you only have this urgency with these type of men?
> 
> So this is why some husbands cannot understand the wife showing interest in some low life guy while he is doing everything to love her. I am not talking about Noce Guy syndrome. Some women fall for the guy that literally mistreats them. The sleaze. You are probably not talking about this, but maybe you are.


Angry sex is hot (when it's consensual). 

Passion is the thing that most people want. Anger, debauchery, lasciviousness, devotion, adoration, desperation, sorrow, gratitude, obsession, and any number of intense emotions contain passion -- even violence, to some extent. It's not that women like the sleazy men for their sleaze, but that the sleazy men are going all out on what they want and there's no timidness there. Certainty and transgression can be thrilling, at times, in a way that politesse and pandering are not. Neither lust nor desire is tame and even tender and loving sex needs to have intensity or else it's boring. Ratchet up the emotions and you'll definitely find passion....sometimes, you also find dysfunction and instability, though. :/


----------



## moxy

LauraF said:


> laughable how? you do notice and fatasize about other women, whats so crazy about that


It's incredibly reductive. Many people are driven by their lusts, but that does not mean all people are slaves to them. 

We (humans) all have thoughts. We do not act on all the thoughts we have.


----------



## southbound

OldGirl said:


> I can eaisly understand the first part of that sentence, but I have a hard time understanding the second part. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, I'm just saying its hard for me to wrap my brain around it; it's just so foreign to the way I think.


As a husband, my wife wanting to have sex with me made me feel loved and like she wanted me. Having a wife that rarely wanted sex made me feel unwanted and wondering what was wrong. On the other hand, getting in the mood to have sex was not as an emotional experience for me as it apparently was for my wife. I guess us guys are more visual. The fact that i was married to a woman I loved and she was attractive was enough for me to get in the mood. I often joke that it seemed like all the planets had to be in line for her to want sex. On the other hand, she could put me down all day and call me a no-good, low-down, good-for-nothing for 12 hours and then step out in lingerie and ask if I was ready for some action. My response would have been, yeeeeeees!


----------



## sinnister

I speak for myself only...so take that for what it's worth.

Withholding sex or acts of intimacy from me WILL make me want to cheat. Doesn't mean I will or have...but I do think about it...a lot.


----------



## Runs like Dog

The brutal truth is that I don't hate you as much as you do.


----------



## LauraF

southbound said:


> As a husband, my wife wanting to have sex with me made me feel loved and like she wanted me. Having a wife that rarely wanted sex made me feel unwanted and wondering what was wrong. On the other hand, getting in the mood to have sex was not as an emotional experience for me as it apparently was for my wife. *I guess us guys are more visual. The fact that i was married to a woman I loved and she was attractive was enough for me to get in the mood.* I often joke that it seemed like all the planets had to be in line for her to want sex. On the other hand, she could put me down all day and call me a no-good, low-down, good-for-nothing for 12 hours and then step out in lingerie and ask if I was ready for some action. My response would have been, yeeeeeees!


well you can either have a georgeous wife who can hold a nickel between her knees without dropping it while doing all the daily chores, or a plane jane who will be a slvt in the sack. Its usually not both, unless were talking about angelina jolie, and even so, she is haywire in so many other ways.
Most guys would choose the former.


----------



## HalfGrin

Apparently there is a growing gap between men and gentlemen.

A gentleman disciplines his thought from the time he is young, so that he rarely notices the other girl in the room. He would never imagine her naked, nor would he wonder what she looked like naked.

A gentleman listen's when anyone speaks and excuses himself if he cannot maintain interest.

A gentleman is an artist and a scholar. He makes the vision of his lover in his head his magnum opus. By discovering each beautiful quirk, desire, expression, and curve a gentleman can bring it to the forefront of his minds eye and create his masterwork that is as timeless as the magnificence and beauty of his lover.


----------



## LauraF

HalfGrin said:


> Apparently there is a growing gap between men and gentlemen.
> 
> A gentleman disciplines his thought from the time he is young, so that he rarely notices the other girl in the room. He would never imagine her naked, nor would he wonder what she looked like naked.
> 
> A gentleman listen's when anyone speaks and excuses himself if he cannot maintain interest.
> 
> A gentleman is an artist and a scholar. He makes the vision of his lover in his head his magnum opus. By discovering each beautiful quirk, desire, expression, and curve a gentleman can bring it to the forefront of his minds eye and create his masterwork that is as timeless as the magnificence and beauty of his lover.


Borat - How to be English Gentleman - YouTube


Like this?


----------



## HalfGrin

LauraF said:


> Borat - How to be English Gentleman - YouTube
> 
> 
> Like this?


Not quite what I was thinking about... :scratchhead:


----------



## SunnyT

I think.... some women don't want to hear what men really think, or what men wish we would understand.


----------



## LauraF

SunnyT said:


> I think.... some women don't want to hear what men really think, or what men wish we would understand.


I do. its kind of why i asked.


----------



## michzz

LauraF said:


> i am looking at it from a womans perspective, so even if 99% of women cheated, i would still focus solely on what men do , simply because thats what affects me
> 
> and by the way, its statistically more likely tat i will get cheated on anyways. If i dont cheat, he must be cheating. :rofl:


I suppose it is a big joke to you. But it is not to me.


----------



## LauraF

michzz said:


> I suppose it is a big joke to you. But it is not to me.


Its not a big joke to me at all.
Some of the answers were ridiculous, but they were sincere, so who am i to get upset.
Will I get cheated on? Yes. 100%. When I least expect it, and the moment I open up and when I have found the one for me. THats when it will happen,
its not funny its freaking sad. So what else but to poke fun at myslef can i do?
I certainly wasnt laughing at you or whatever pain you are going through.


----------



## moxy

Trenton said:


> Is it so wrong that despite reality and popular opinion I want a man who only thinks about me? Is it wrong that I want to be so stellar, good in bed and a fabulous wife/lover that it's impossible for my man to think of other women without immediately defaulting back to me? Come on now, I'm willing to put in the work and all!
> 
> OK, might be unrealistic, but tell me it is realistic, possible and implausible any other way...anyway.


That's infatuation. It's not indefinitely sustainable, unless you're an obsessive psycho-stalker.


----------



## LauraF

Trenton said:


> Is it so wrong that despite reality and popular opinion I want a man who only thinks about me? Is it wrong that I want to be so stellar, good in bed and a fabulous wife/lover that it's impossible for my man to think of other women without immediately defaulting back to me? Come on now, I'm willing to put in the work and all!
> 
> OK, might be unrealistic, but tell me it is realistic, possible and implausible any other way...anyway.


I dont think its wrong, for what its worth


----------



## unbelievable

OldGirl said:


> I can eaisly understand the first part of that sentence, but I have a hard time understanding the second part. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, I'm just saying its hard for me to wrap my brain around it; it's just so foreign to the way I think.


Men's brains are capable of compartmentalization, like a building with many separate rooms. Women's brains are like a large auditorium with everything milling about, comingled. The male brain is capable of leaving the "love" room and walking over to the "lust" room and then returning to the "love" room. This is why strip joints are full of male customers and Hugh Hefner is filthy rich. Most of those customers are married. I choose not to commit adultary because I know it would hurt my wife but I know my brain is capable of having sex with another woman and never giving her a second thought afterwards.


----------



## LauraF

unbelievable said:


> Men's brains are capable of compartmentalization, like a building with many separate rooms. Women's brains are like a large auditorium with everything milling about, comingled. The male brain is capable of leaving the "love" room and walking over to the "lust" room and then returning to the "love" room. This is why strip joints are full of male customers and Hugh Hefner is filthy rich. Most of those customers are married. I choose not to commit adultary because I know it would hurt my wife but I know my brain is capable of having sex with another woman and never giving her a second thought afterwards.


But thats what i find so interesting.

Your essentially all suppressing something that is a huge part of your sexuality: the way you attach to your sex partner, or say, the lack thereof, and the urge for various sex partners.

Its such a crapshoot for a woman.

Its like being married to a gay guy saying: "as long as he fantasizes but doesnt act it out..."
I mean eventually the poor bloke's gonna cave


----------



## unbelievable

LauraF said:


> But thats what i find so interesting.
> 
> Your essentially all suppressing something that is a huge part of your sexuality: the way you attach to your sex partner, or say, the lack thereof, and the urge for various sex partners.
> 
> Its such a crapshoot for a woman.
> 
> Its like being married to a gay guy saying: "as long as he fantasizes but doesnt act it out..."
> I mean eventually the poor bloke's gonna cave


The good news is that men are mostly rational beings. Rational beings don't usually do things against their own self-interests. If a guy has a decent women, adultary is against his self-interests. A wife who neglects her husband's sexual needs is just begging for trouble. Also, a wife who trusts her husband completely with other women is asking for trouble. Women who assume they are just so wonderful that their guy never notices other women or they no longer have to make any effort to keep their man interested are asking for trouble. Also, lots of women who have been cheated on are spending months or years trying to figure out what's wrong with her and what this other woman had that she didn't. The answer might well be that nothing's wrong with her, there never was any competition. Her guy just happened to be weak or just happened to be weak on that particular occasion. Doesn't mean she's not "enough". None of us asked for a sex drive. Life would be simpler without it. We're designed the way we are because it was necessary for the survival of our species. We can control it and be great partners but nobody "wills" it completely away, no matter how gentlemanly or saintly they think they are. No woman is so hot or freaky in bed as to make their male partner go blind. You might keep him from straying but you'll never keep one from thinking or looking.


----------



## KanDo

HalfGrin said:


> Apparently there is a growing gap between men and gentlemen.
> 
> A gentleman disciplines his thought from the time he is young, so that he rarely notices the other girl in the room. He would never imagine her naked, nor would he wonder what she looked like naked.
> 
> A gentleman listen's when anyone speaks and excuses himself if he cannot maintain interest.
> 
> A gentleman is an artist and a scholar. He makes the vision of his lover in his head his magnum opus. By discovering each beautiful quirk, desire, expression, and curve a gentleman can bring it to the forefront of his minds eye and create his masterwork that is as timeless as the magnificence and beauty of his lover.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida I want to talk to you about! The difference between a gentleman and a rogue is his actions. you can't undo biology. A gentleman definitely notices the beautiful woman in the room and yes, he does, if ever so fleetingly, wonder about what she looks like naked. And the Magnus Opus comment is right out of some romance novel.


----------



## LauraF

unbelievable said:


> The good news is that men are mostly rational beings. Rational beings don't usually do things against their own self-interests. If a guy has a decent women, adultary is against his self-interests. A wife who neglects her husband's sexual needs is just begging for trouble. Also, a wife who trusts her husband completely with other women is asking for trouble. Women who assume they are just so wonderful that their guy never notices other women or they no longer have to make any effort to keep their man interested are asking for trouble. Also, lots of women who have been cheated on are spending months or years trying to figure out what's wrong with her and what this other woman had that she didn't. The answer might well be that nothing's wrong with her, there never was any competition. Her guy just happened to be weak or just happened to be weak on that particular occasion. Doesn't mean she's not "enough". None of us asked for a sex drive. Life would be simpler without it. We're designed the way we are because it was necessary for the survival of our species. We can control it and be great partners but nobody "wills" it completely away, no matter how gentlemanly or saintly they think they are. No woman is so hot or freaky in bed as to make their male partner go blind. You might keep him from straying but you'll never keep one from thinking or looking.


Doesnt that smack of complete surveillance? 

You say you cant trust a guy with other women but then your supposed to trust him to go to a strip club, that kind of thing. 

So which one is it? (Seriously, help me out here, i need the tips)

I dont want to keep anyone from straying, I have a fulltime job and a life of my own. I would drive myslef insane with worry and probably drive him away always assuming the worst about him

Scratch the sexless thing. That will never be a problem for me, and I agree 100% taht anybody who doesnt put out in a monogamous relationship is asking for trouble.

And to a certain extent, some type of love has to exist within a man, no? I fantasize, he does, most of us do, but to a degree, he also has to have enough feelings to want to stay as opposed to being fithful because anything else would mean sh!ttin where he eats


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> You'er anonymous on here, and nobody's gonna scream at you for saying it.
> 
> So give us some of the ugliest truths about what women don't/should know about men.
> 
> This isn't meant to make men look bad. There are things, some things women just dont know about men. What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?


Dont lie to us about your past or else we will think less of you for lying and it will weight heavy on the type of person you are if you choose to lie. 

Dont assume we know what you are talking about all the time

Dont assume that we can sense when you are sad or upset

Dont expect us to know what is a matter unless you open up to us

Dont treat us or talk to us like your girlfriends

Yes we look at other women

Yes we think you do look fat at times but we do not want to tell you or hurt your feelings

We think you look hot when you are dirty/sweaty (at least i think its hot)

If you dont have sex with us we think you do not love us

If you are not into sex we think you do not love us

If you are not into sex and do not want to have sex often we feel rejected and it can hurt you feel like are you not good enough for her it can make you angry.

Giving us pleasure randomly is the hottest thing ever bringing us food and giving bj's. (id hope most guys return the favor to their wives)

Showing you love us. Men like this more than women think do stuff to show you love us


----------



## LauraF

Goldmember357 said:


> If you dont have sex with us we think you do not love us
> 
> If you are not into sex we think you do not love us
> 
> If you are not into sex and do not want to have sex often we feel rejected and it can hurt you feel like are you not good enough for her it can make you angry.


Seriously? Wow, I didnt know that


----------



## LauraF

Goldmember357 said:


> Dont treat us or talk to us like your girlfriends


Explain that one, please, I am very intrigued


----------



## Goldmember357

unbelievable said:


> The good news is that men are mostly rational beings. Rational beings don't usually do things against their own self-interests. If a guy has a decent women, adultary is against his self-interests. A wife who neglects her husband's sexual needs is just begging for trouble. Also, a wife who trusts her husband completely with other women is asking for trouble. Women who assume they are just so wonderful that their guy never notices other women or they no longer have to make any effort to keep their man interested are asking for trouble. Also, lots of women who have been cheated on are spending months or years trying to figure out what's wrong with her and what this other woman had that she didn't. The answer might well be that nothing's wrong with her, there never was any competition. Her guy just happened to be weak or just happened to be weak on that particular occasion. Doesn't mean she's not "enough". None of us asked for a sex drive. Life would be simpler without it. We're designed the way we are because it was necessary for the survival of our species. We can control it and be great partners but nobody "wills" it completely away, no matter how gentlemanly or saintly they think they are. No woman is so hot or freaky in bed as to make their male partner go blind. You might keep him from straying but you'll never keep one from thinking or looking.


I may get attacked for this but i believe it to be true and science and many studies would argue with it being true.



1) Men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat ( million reasons why)

2) Men cheat far far more than women (many reasons why)

3) Women are essentially not biologically programmed to cheat (though some do) i am not denying that they do

4) Monogamy is in a woman's best interest (many reasons why)

5) Monogamy is not always in a males best interest (many reasons why)

6) A man can actually truly love a woman he is with and end up having sex with another woman or several. (Given the differences in male female brain among many others long long story short is they believe that to be possible)

7) A woman cannot truly love a man and have sex with another man or several other men. (Her brain and women's positions and roles in human history among differences in brain,sex organs and many other things) proves she cant truly love someone and separate love with sex with someone else.




Now with that said. Just because Men are biologically programmed to cheat it does not mean they have to . More so what the studies and what i have researched and read concludes that men more so than being programmed to cheat are programmed to be promiscuous and desire as many women as they can. To get as many females pregnant as they can and males can separate sex from love very easily just the thought of being inside an attractive woman gets a man crazy and his brain chemicals start to change and his track of mind differs when he is horny which is a good portion of his life. Males are not so much programmed to cheat as much as they are programmed to want other women the problem arises when you use it as an EXCUSE to cheat. 



Cheating is not acceptable i do not care if you are biologically programmed to sleep around and spread your see just cause evolution and human history has wrote that path for your sex. Does not mean you have no self control and does not mean that its acceptable to cheat just cause your wife does not do ____ or does not do _____.. Above all however a marriage should be 50/50 and both should make efforts. A marriage will not last unless both people are truly in love.


----------



## LauraF

Goldmember357 said:


> I may get attacked for this but i believe it to be true and science and many studies would argue with it being true.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat ( million reasons why)
> 
> 2) Men cheat far far more than women (many reasons why)
> 
> 3) Women are essentially not biologically programmed to cheat (though some do) i am not denying that they do
> 
> 4) Monogamy is in a woman's best interest (many reasons why)
> 
> 5) Monogamy is not always in a males best interest (many reasons why)
> 
> 6) A man can actually truly love a woman he is with and end up having sex with another woman or several. (Given the differences in male female brain among many others long long story short is they believe that to be possible)
> 
> 7) A woman cannot truly love a man and have sex with another man or several other men. (Her brain and women's positions and roles in human history among differences in brain,sex organs and many other things) proves she cant truly love someone and separate love with sex with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now with that said. Just because Men are biologically programmed to cheat it does not mean they have to . More so what the studies and what i have researched and read concludes that men more so than being programmed to cheat are programmed to be promiscuous and desire as many women as they can. To get as many females pregnant as they can and males can separate sex from love very easily just the thought of being inside an attractive woman gets a man crazy and his brain chemicals start to change and his track of mind differs when he is horny which is a good portion of his life. Males are not so much programmed to cheat as much as they are programmed to want other women the problem arises when you use it as an EXCUSE to cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheating is not acceptable i do not care if you are biologically programmed to sleep around and spread your see just cause evolution and human history has wrote that path for your sex. Does not mean you have no self control and does not mean that its acceptable to cheat just cause your wife does not do ____ or does not do _____.. Above all however a marriage should be 50/50 and both should make efforts. A marriage will not last unless both people are truly in love.




Like I already wrote:

Same could be said for gay men. 
Just because they are programmed as they are doesnt mean they have to act on it.
Fact is, they all do. Because thats who they are.

How we are programmed is largely what we are.

And I know these statostics, adn facts about men. I know them all too well..


So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> Explain that one, please, I am very intrigued


Many guys find it annoying and a waste of time some guys dislike it because they feel they are worthy of better conversation and do not want to be treated like a "friend". Me personally i do not care i love to hear my wife talk i am maybe one of the few guy's who is not bothered about hearing about her day. Maybe one day i will get annoyed with it but by and large i am happy when she wants to talk i look at her face and way her mouth moves and love her voice i am happy to have her.

However do not expect me to know about fashion or be into drama gossip. I will listen and give her answer's but i am not informed on allot of "girl" things.


----------



## KanDo

LauraF said:


> Like I already wrote:
> 
> Same could be said for gay men.
> Just because they are programmed as they are doesnt mean they have to act on it.
> Fact is, they all do. Because thats who they are.
> 
> How we are programmed is largely what we are.
> 
> And I know these statostics, adn facts about men. I know them all too well..
> 
> 
> So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


Wow, I am sorry for you. You are destined to live your life without a committed relationship because of this belief. I can assure you that men can and do live their lives in happy monogamous relationships. I don't know your back story but you seem pretty wounded. Good luck


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> and 75% of men who were served with a divorce admit to infidelity at some point ni hte marriage
> the initiation of divorce might very well often be a reaction to something absolutely unacceptable in a relationship, dont you think?
> 
> Divorce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> under "causes for divorce"


This is true i work and deal with these cases often.


----------



## LauraF

KanDo said:


> Wow, I am sorry for you. You are destined to live your life without a committed relationship because of this belief. I can assure you that men can and do live their lives in happy monogamous relationships. I don't know your back story but you seem pretty wounded. Good luck


I meant it from a biological and anecdotal perspective.
And yes, I will probably never be able to have a committed relationship unless I turn lesbian. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## sandc

Here's the ugly truth about me. I'm not going to generalize all men. This is what I would say to MY wife.

I'd prefer your p*ssy but if it's not available I would like a blow job.
Yes, it is better when you swallow.
Just because I look at another woman doesn't *necessarily* mean I want to have sex with her.
Yes, I would like to have sex with Sofia Vergara and Monica Belucci. Both at once if possible.
Yes, you really do look hot. I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it.

My wife say's that's enough.


----------



## LauraF

sandc said:


> Here's the ugly truth about me. I'm not going to generalize all men. This is what I would say to MY wife.
> 
> I'd prefer your p*ssy but if it's not available I would like a blow job.
> Yes, it is better when you swallow.
> *Just because I look at another woman doesn't *necessarily* mean I want to have sex with her.*
> Yes, I would like to have sex with Sofia Vergara and Monica Belucci. Both at once if possible.
> Yes, you really do look hot. I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it.
> 
> My wife say's that's enough.



Aren't you the former open relationship guy?
And yes Monica Belucci is hawt


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> Like I already wrote:
> 
> Same could be said for gay men.
> Just because they are programmed as they are doesnt mean they have to act on it.
> Fact is, they all do. Because thats who they are.
> 
> How we are programmed is largely what we are.
> 
> And I know these statostics, adn facts about men. I know them all too well..
> 
> 
> So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


Yes i would agree with you for the most part except on the last part. Not all men cheat there are loads of guy's who do not cheat they may want to and would love to have sex with another woman or several but they do not and its typically cause they have a higher code of character and typically truly really love their wife. However like i said and like you said or agree with a man can love his wife truly love his wife and have sex with another woman. A man can separate the loving his woman and separate having sex with someone else.Sadly the truth is to many guy's cheat there are ladies who cheat but the amount of divorce cases i have seen majority have been filed by females and a huge portion ridiculous amount of time infidelity is a reason listed. When men file for divorce about 50% of the time its because they got cheated on and the other 50% of the time they either men another woman or they truly dont like their wife anymore but no talk of cheating is made.

In my opinion if you find a very mature and loving guy and i am talking a guy with a great heart he is not quick tempered no displays of selfish behavior and he truly loves you. Than you can bet (imo) on him not cheating. There are lots of guy's out there who rarely got girls or had girl trouble and you'd be surprised allot of those guy's are some of the most nicest guy's for women to date. I suspect its because they went for a while maybe their whole teenage year's with no success with ladies and than felt whenever they would get a girl they would treat her right but those guy's are tricky because they feel they only deserve a girl who is truly a good girl. Those type of guy's go for the type of girls who lets say more reserved or not the "hot girl" often the last thing those guy's want is a girl who is a former party animal or a "hot" girl. However at the same time allot of those guy's begin to resent women and want to play women just look at the very rich guy's with trophy wives and who play women most of them were nerds at one point and surely got few girls.

Look for a guy with great character. Maybe women are not so great at reading men as i thought. I personally feel i am great at reading people so i see some women file for divorce and i see the loser they married and i think to myself "how did you not expect this to happen?"






KanDo said:


> Wow, I am sorry for you. You are destined to live your life without a committed relationship because of this belief. I can assure you that men can and do live their lives in happy monogamous relationships. I don't know your back story but you seem pretty wounded. Good luck


I see where she is coming from i do allot of divorce cases and not only that but all the evidence from psychological studies to even science proves what i said in the above post. However i differ in that while males are biologically programmed to sleep around and impregnate as many women as they can and are thus essentially in many ways biologically programmed to cheat. We still have freedom of choice of our actions and while we may be programmed to want as many women as we can and monogamy may go against or natural and biological purposes we have control and cannot cheat if we so choose to.


----------



## Browncoat

Just seems that the number of cheating husbands vs wives would be about equal.

Do men typically cheat with unmarried women, and women tend to cheat with married men?

Personally I know a lot of men who have, and likely would never cheat on their wives. Even if given a chance to get away with it. I don't think it's a given that men will cheat.


----------



## unbelievable

LauraF said:


> Doesnt that smack of complete surveillance?
> 
> You say you cant trust a guy with other women but then your supposed to trust him to go to a strip club, that kind of thing.
> 
> So which one is it? (Seriously, help me out here, i need the tips)
> 
> I dont want to keep anyone from straying, I have a fulltime job and a life of my own. I would drive myslef insane with worry and probably drive him away always assuming the worst about him
> 
> Scratch the sexless thing. That will never be a problem for me, and I agree 100% taht anybody who doesnt put out in a monogamous relationship is asking for trouble.
> 
> And to a certain extent, some type of love has to exist within a man, no? I fantasize, he does, most of us do, but to a degree, he also has to have enough feelings to want to stay as opposed to being fithful because anything else would mean sh!ttin where he eats


Not surveillance...common sense. You value your engagement ring so you don't leave it laying around. I don't write my bank pin number on the wall where I work. I trust my co-workers to a degree but I need my money. Your guy going to a strip club isn't a threat. Nothing going on there but looking. Leaving your guy frequently alone with other women isn't a great idea, especially if alcohol is involved or the other woman is in some sort of emotional crisis. The devil gets around and there's no point in making his job easier.


----------



## LauraF

unbelievable said:


> Not surveillance...common sense. You value your engagement ring so you don't leave it laying around. I don't write my bank pin number on the wall where I work. I trust my co-workers to a degree but I need my money. Your guy going to a strip club isn't a threat. Nothing going on there but looking. Leaving your guy frequently alone with other women isn't a great idea, especially if alcohol is involved or the other woman is in some sort of emotional crisis. The devil gets around and there's no point in making his job easier.


You know, i keep hearing from men that strip clubs are not a threat but regular women (the non-professionals) are.
I find that just so interesting.
I would have thought that it would be the other way around.


----------



## Goldmember357

Strippers arent supposed to touch or sleep with the guy's but many will but many are dirty. Guys have much better chance getting laid at a bar or a club of course the girls there could be just as dirty if not more dirty but there you go.

Ideally your guy would not want to go to a strip club to see other naked women he would know it would likely bother his girl and would not want to go there. He may want to see naked women and her not get upset but he would choice not going vs going.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> You know, i keep hearing from men that strip clubs are not a threat but regular women (the non-professionals) are.
> I find that just so interesting.
> I would have thought that it would be the other way around.


Regular woman are dangerous. Strippers are skanks.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> Regular woman are dangerous. Strippers are skanks.


Yeah, peril is around every corner. Its not a world for committed relationships, is it?


----------



## Entropy3000

Browncoat said:


> Just seems that the number of cheating husbands vs wives would be about equal.
> 
> Do men typically cheat with unmarried women, and women tend to cheat with married men?
> 
> Personally I know a lot of men who have, and likely would never cheat on their wives. Even if given a chance to get away with it. I don't think it's a given that men will cheat.


It is not a given that married men will cheat just as it is not a given that a married woman will cheat.

But this does not account for EAs that start out on the up and up. I do not think that most people intend to cheat. They make bad chocies and have poor boundaries. The others are just pure selfish IMHO. It is jut not black and white for everyone.

I suspect that there are a number of men who cheat with a lot of different women at the same time. That fits the model of women looking for the fittest male. 

I think some women will cheat with a married man because they assume he will be discrete. He may also appear to have a higher value because of preselection. They say once a man is married he will be hit on much more often. This is consistent with my experience.

All in all it would be interesting to have the real data around this. Just no way at this time to know for sure.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Yeah, peril is around every corner. Its not a world for committed relationships, is it?


It is what you make it. My point is that strippers are not really very interesting. A "real" person is. A real person is more than a set of fake boobs. You can actually speak to them. Sexual attraction is in the mind.

There is more danger in a dance club than at a strip club.

I think there are plenty of folks who are truly comitted. It is just that for most of us we have to learn on the job. Which means we learn the hard way. If you are lucky enough to have grown up in a loving home and know what a good relationship is, you have a better chance. Sons learn from their fathers and mothers.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> But this does not account for EAs that start out on the up and up. *I do not think that most people intend to cheat.* They make bad chocies and have poor boundaries. The others are just pure selfish IMHO. It is jut not black and white for everyone.


Would it be okay if I respectfully disagreed with this?

I dont think people go into marriage thinking they will cheat. But down the road, once a line has been crossed, most are aware of it. 
I know, I know: denial. But still.
Dont take this personally, if you can and I am sure this has been discussed at nauseum in other threads. 
But the only reason you so strongly believe that most people "fall into affairs" is probably also because it makes you look less like the odd man out and because it is easier for you and your SO to stomach. After all, saying "I wanted to do this and I wanted to lay her" will not make anyone want to take ya back, right?
In reality, whenever I step out of line, I always know it. I think most people do.
No hard feelings i hope, just my 2 cents


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> But thats what i find so interesting.
> 
> Your essentially all suppressing something that is a huge part of your sexuality: the way you attach to your sex partner, or say, the lack thereof, and the urge for various sex partners.
> 
> Its such a crapshoot for a woman.
> 
> Its like being married to a gay guy saying: "as long as he fantasizes but doesnt act it out..."
> *I mean eventually the poor bloke's gonna cave*


Ummm. No. This is what brains are for. You have to be smart enough and have the social skills to have good boundaries. Unfortunately this is not taught in school.


----------



## Entropy3000

HalfGrin said:


> Apparently there is a growing gap between men and gentlemen.
> 
> A gentleman disciplines his thought from the time he is young, so that he rarely notices the other girl in the room. He would never imagine her naked, nor would he wonder what she looked like naked.
> 
> A gentleman listen's when anyone speaks and excuses himself if he cannot maintain interest.
> 
> A gentleman is an artist and a scholar. He makes the vision of his lover in his head his magnum opus. By discovering each beautiful quirk, desire, expression, and curve a gentleman can bring it to the forefront of his minds eye and create his masterwork that is as timeless as the magnificence and beauty of his lover.


Wow. Not my definition of a Gentleman at all. A Gentleman is a man of substance but he surely does notices women. He is very Alpha. He is a scholar of something. He may be Engineer or a Soldier or whatever. He is not an effeminate man. He appreciates women. He may be chivalrous or into bishido.

He may indeed have "manners" in the traditional sense but he is a man's man as well. I just do not buy into this picture at all. Do not confuse education with being a Gentlemen though many are well educated. It is just about something else altogether. It is about choices and values. He is a man and likes women.


----------



## Entropy3000

Goldmember357 said:


> I may get attacked for this but i believe it to be true and science and many studies would argue with it being true.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat ( million reasons why)
> 
> 2) Men cheat far far more than women (many reasons why)
> 
> 3) Women are essentially not biologically programmed to cheat (though some do) i am not denying that they do
> 
> 4) Monogamy is in a woman's best interest (many reasons why)
> 
> 5) Monogamy is not always in a males best interest (many reasons why)
> 
> 6) A man can actually truly love a woman he is with and end up having sex with another woman or several. (Given the differences in male female brain among many others long long story short is they believe that to be possible)
> 
> 7) A woman cannot truly love a man and have sex with another man or several other men. (Her brain and women's positions and roles in human history among differences in brain,sex organs and many other things) proves she cant truly love someone and separate love with sex with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now with that said. Just because Men are biologically programmed to cheat it does not mean they have to . More so what the studies and what i have researched and read concludes that men more so than being programmed to cheat are programmed to be promiscuous and desire as many women as they can. To get as many females pregnant as they can and males can separate sex from love very easily just the thought of being inside an attractive woman gets a man crazy and his brain chemicals start to change and his track of mind differs when he is horny which is a good portion of his life. Males are not so much programmed to cheat as much as they are programmed to want other women the problem arises when you use it as an EXCUSE to cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheating is not acceptable i do not care if you are biologically programmed to sleep around and spread your see just cause evolution and human history has wrote that path for your sex. Does not mean you have no self control and does not mean that its acceptable to cheat just cause your wife does not do ____ or does not do _____.. Above all however a marriage should be 50/50 and both should make efforts. A marriage will not last unless both people are truly in love.


Actually I think marriage favors men more than women these days.

I do not believe men cheat more than women.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> Actually I think marriage favors men more than women these days. It may favor a woman to be married for ten years and then find another husband for another ten.
> 
> I do not believe men cheat more than women.


I also dont think women are meant to be monogamous either, if we are at that.
Think of the shape of the male penis. The tips acts as a scoop for semen of competitors. I recently read this.
And squirting also acts as a wash out for other mens semen.
Then of course there are studies about how women subconscieously dress sexier during ovulation when they go out without their men, and the larger the testicles of the male, the more promiscuous the females of the species. 

We are not naturally sexually monogamous as a species


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Would it be okay if I respectfully disagreed with this?
> 
> I dont think people go into marriage thinking they will cheat. But down the road, once a line has been crossed, most are aware of it.
> I know, I know: denial. But still.
> Dont take this personally, if you can and I am sure this has been discussed at nauseum in other threads.
> But the only reason you so strongly believe that most people "fall into affairs" is probably also because it makes you look less like the odd man out and because it is easier for you and your SO to stomach. After all, saying "I wanted to do this and I wanted to lay her" will not make anyone want to take ya back, right?
> In reality, whenever I step out of line, I always know it. I think most people do.
> No hard feelings i hope, just my 2 cents


No I have been around and yes I can speak from experience. I think my situation is by far the most common. What may be less common is that because of transparency my wife was aware soon enough and acted on it. 
I have been honest in everything I have stated. You are projecting a whole other scenario that is flat not anything like I experienced. You are "making it up" because you have not had the experince yourself. You do not understand and that is fine. Some folks have to learn for themselves.
But if you truly are interested in knowing the realities of all of this you might want to open your mind a bit and do some study on this topic. Asking others opinions and listening to epxeriences are a great start. But if you refuse to accept things because they do not fit your original thinking then you do yourself an injustice and can never step beyond what you know now. The more we learn the less we realize we know.

From these forums I see most often how folks have gotten themselves in trouble. It is the most common issue by far. My point is that when they start out they are not intending to cheat. Realize that by the time most folks come on here it is way down the road. We are seeing the results of poor boundaries. Rarely do we see anything early on. You can disagree all you want. I guess I have more faith in folks. I think people put themselves at real risk thinking they are different.

Many are for sure deciding to cheat at some point but remember about the justification and history re-writing that almost always occurs. 

Seemingly contradictory views and ideas can exist at the same time and all be valid.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> No I have been around and yes I can speak from experince. I think my situation is by far the most common. What may be less common is that because of transparency my wife was aware soon enough and acted on it.
> 
> From these forums I see most often how folks have gotten themselves in trouble. It is the most common issue by far. My point is that when they start out they are not intending to cheat. Realize that by the time most folks come on here it is way down the road. We are seeing the results of poor boundaries. rarely do we see anything early on. You can disagree all you want. I guess I have more faith in folks. I think people put themselves at real risk thinking they are different.
> 
> Many are for sure deciding to cheat at some point but remember about the justification and history re-writing that almost always occurs.


Can I ask a personal question? How old were you two when you annd your wife got married?


----------



## unbelievable

Entropy3000 said:


> It is not a given that married men will cheat just as it is not a given that a married woman will cheat.
> 
> But this does not account for EAs that start out on the up and up. I do not think that most people intend to cheat. They make bad chocies and have poor boundaries. The others are just pure selfish IMHO. It is jut not black and white for everyone.
> 
> I suspect that there are a number of men who cheat with a lot of different women at the same time. That fits the model of women looking for the fittest male.
> 
> I think some women will cheat with a married man because they assume he will be discrete. He may also appear to have a higher value because of preselection. They say once a man is married he will be hit on much more often. This is consistent with my experience.
> 
> All in all it would be interesting to have the real data around this. Just no way at this time to know for sure.


All adultary is intentional and every bit of it begins in the mind. My genitals never accidently fell into someone else's. Words don't accidently fall out of my mouth. My computer keyboard only types words my mind composes. The sexual act is just the logical end of a series of deliberate choices. I can't help noticing a woman, but I have to choose to talk to her. I have to choose to be alone with her. Before a sex act occurs, several choices are made. Nothing that is sexually consensual ever "just happens". It's a whole lot easier to avoid trouble than to extricate oneself from it.


----------



## unbelievable

I never saw the point of strip clubs or watching porn. For me, I get enough pesky lust attacks throughout the day just minding my own business. I'm not going to go looking for them. I'm not going to pay to look at a naked woman I can't do anything with when I have a real one at home. Doesn't pass the common sense test for me. Still, those 19 year olds aren't interested in some 40 year old married guy. They want his money. It's just business. He doesn't even know the dancer's real name and doesn't care. She's a piece of meat. Anyone guy gets grabby, the bouncer will toss them out. Spending time alone with a "regular" woman, there's opportunity for either to actually be intimate, physically, or emotionally. She can get in his head in places you don't want her and he can get in her's. If my wife would be ok with me spending hours alone with another woman, I'd get the notion that she didn't find our relationship worth protecting


----------



## Goldmember357

Entropy3000 said:


> Actually I think marriage favors men more than women these days.
> 
> *I do not believe men cheat more than women*.


than you are in denial

1) I can provide a very very long response and studies and evidence to prove otherwise if you would like? Its a fact and its actually widely accepted by many psychologist, psychiatrist, and scientist. There are really far to many reasons seriously ( a million) on why men cheat more and why males are programmed to cheat or rather not "cheat" but be almost incapable of devoting his life to one woman and not sleeping around. All evolutionary data supports this it is within the male biologically to be promiscuous and sleep around. There are far far to many differences between males and females within their brains to other differences not only that but the huge differences between the sexes in human history. Now just because the male is designed for sex and his essentially biologically programmed to cheat does not mean the male has to and it does not mean that we are incapable of not cheating. Fact of mater is we have control of our actions and can overcome what ever impulses we may have even if it goes against evolutionary means. 

I am not trying to be rude. But the sooner women realize that men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat and the sooner more men realize this themselves the better. I am not justifying cheating but i am a person who is into logic, facts and being real i am a realist and all evidence seems to support this. This is why i feel people who are "love psychic" and "Love doctors" are by and large crazy delusional people. Women who get hurt all the time need to look at themselves and look at the men they are choosing to date (that is the problem) their selections. They also need to realize that they cannot treat sex as a reward or not put any effort into sex as it will destroy the male husband. Men who have no control and act purely on animalistici nsticnt and evolutionary instincts need to stop getting married and have a vasectomy and stop tying themselves up with women and relationships as they clearly are incapable of such things.


2) Yes there are many arguments and many ways to argue that marriage favors a male more than women. For instance divorced women almost always tend to be poorer than divorced males. In addition single mothers are one of the poorest groups in america, and women become often "damaged" goods after a child or after a failed marriage. However from a biological and evolutionary stand point it makes far more sense for the female to be in a monogamous relationship than a male. Given a females lesser status in regards to physical strength and feats and given her general role she has held throughout human history it would be more to her benefit to be in a monogamous relationship thus "marriage" favors the female. However only an "ideal" marriage. Ideally the man and woman would love each other and the woman would not be mistreated or anything and it would heavily favor her as marriage would provide her with some status along with power.


Marriage for a male and monogamy goes against his instinctual behavior and that of what his mind will tell him as he will want to sleep with other women. Men have a drop in testosterone after they have children or rather "fatherhood" drops a males' testosterone level's. Given the males position throughout human history and his superior physical strength and the roles he has assumed he does not benefit as much as the female does when it comes to marriage. ( i could give many more examples) if you would like.


Try not to think so much on what you read or see on here and try to think about how the human is from the earliest of times and the evolution along with the differences in the brain between male and female and the positions and roles in human history.


----------



## LauraF

Goldmember357 said:


> than you are in denial
> 
> 1) I can provide a very very long response and studies and evidence to prove otherwise if you would like? Its a fact and its actually widely accepted by many psychologist, psychiatrist, and scientist. There are really far to many reasons seriously ( a million) on why men cheat more and why males are programmed to cheat or rather not "cheat" but be almost incapable of devoting his life to one woman and not sleeping around. All evolutionary data supports this it is within the male biologically to be promiscuous and sleep around. There are far far to many differences between males and females within their brains to other differences not only that but the huge differences between the sexes in human history. Now just because the male is designed for sex and his essentially biologically programmed to cheat does not mean the male has to and it does not mean that we are incapable of not cheating. Fact of mater is we have control of our actions and can overcome what ever impulses we may have even if it goes against evolutionary means.
> 
> I am not trying to be rude. But the sooner women realize that men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat and the sooner more men realize this themselves the better. I am not justifying cheating but i am a person who is into logic, facts and being real i am a realist and all evidence seems to support this. This is why i feel people who are "love psychic" and "Love doctors" are by and large crazy delusional people. Women who get hurt all the time need to look at themselves and look at the men they are choosing to date (that is the problem) their selections. They also need to realize that they cannot treat sex as a reward or not put any effort into sex as it will destroy the male husband. Men who have no control and act purely on animalistici nsticnt and evolutionary instincts need to stop getting married and have a vasectomy and stop tying themselves up with women and relationships as they clearly are incapable of such things.
> 
> 
> 2) Yes there are many arguments and many ways to argue that marriage favors a male more than women. For instance divorced women almost always tend to be poorer than divorced males. In addition single mothers are one of the poorest groups in america, and women become often "damaged" goods after a child or after a failed marriage. However from a biological and evolutionary stand point it makes far more sense for the female to be in a monogamous relationship than a male. Given a females lesser status in regards to physical strength and feats and given her general role she has held throughout human history it would be more to her benefit to be in a monogamous relationship thus "marriage" favors the female. However only an "ideal" marriage. Ideally the man and woman would love each other and the woman would not be mistreated or anything and it would heavily favor her as marriage would provide her with some status along with power.
> 
> 
> Marriage for a male and monogamy goes against his instinctual behavior and that of what his mind will tell him as he will want to sleep with other women. Men have a drop in testosterone after they have children or rather "fatherhood" drops a males' testosterone level's. Given the males position throughout human history and his superior physical strength and the roles he has assumed he does not benefit as much as the female does when it comes to marriage. ( i could give many more examples) if you would like.
> 
> 
> Try not to think so much on what you read or see on here and try to think about how the human is from the earliest of times and the evolution along with the differences in the brain between male and female and the positions and roles in human history.


I am going to make a guess here. Were you born in a foreign country?

Your English and something about your views make me think you are from a very traditional country. Any chance this might be true? just a hunch


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> I also dont think women are meant to be monogamous either, if we are at that.
> Think of the shape of the male penis. The tips acts as a scoop for semen of competitors. I recently read this.
> And squirting also acts as a wash out for other mens semen.
> Then of course there are studies about how women subconscieously dress sexier during ovulation when they go out without their men, and the larger the testicles of the male, the more promiscuous the females of the species.
> 
> We are not naturally sexually monogamous as a species


Yes this is true we are not sexually a monogamous species "per say" however with that said it is more so lets say in a woman's interest to be monogamous (far to many examples). With that said the feminist agenda has routinely pushed the idea that women are just as sexual and horny as men and this is for the most part wrong.

Of course you can believe what you wish to believe but i like to stick with facts. There is no denying the male thinks of sex more also another important think to realize is that even before monotheistic religious became widely practiced animosity towards women's bodies still existed but there was not so much control or "ideal" push towards how a woman should treat her body. What is interesting is to see how sex was and how people treated sex thousands of year's ago or how the Neanderthal's or early Hominid's treated sex you will see some similarities and some major major differences but even so with that said you will see the similarities the male's in those group share with today's males and you will see how the female had a different and almost similar role. 

Of course their are some Species were the female is the dominant one and the more sexual one however that is not the case with the **** Sapien Sapien's which is what we are.


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> I am going to make a guess here. Were you born in a foreign country?
> 
> Your English and something about your views make me think you are from a very traditional country. Any chance this might be true? just a hunch


What is wrong with my english? its the internet...?

I am not so traditional i keep the way i live out my life and my talk on other subjects separate for the most part.


----------



## LauraF

Goldmember357 said:


> What is wrong with my english? its the internet...?
> 
> I am not so traditional i keep the way i live out my life and my talk on other subjects separate for the most part.


No, I actually feel that at this point you are flooding my thread with redundant facts.
Something about you makes me sense that you are pushing an agenda quite blatantly. However much I agree, it is starting to become counter-productive.

And from previous posts you are quite the misogynist (Quote from a previous post of yours: "a woman with kids means she either was raped or opened her legs." I am not interested in this kind of sh!t)


----------



## unbelievable

Bottom line is whether you are looking for a husband or an employee, you ALWAYS INVEST IN CHARACTER. Pay little attention to what the guy looks like or to how successful you think he is. Both can change. Real character doesn't. Until you've seen him deal with real adversity, you don't know who he is. If you see patterns of deception, disrespect, or selfishness (to you or anyone else), dump him. It won't get better.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> I also dont think women are meant to be monogamous either, if we are at that.
> Think of the shape of the male penis. The tips acts as a scoop for semen of competitors. I recently read this.
> And squirting also acts as a wash out for other mens semen.
> Then of course there are studies about how women subconscieously dress sexier during ovulation when they go out without their men, and the larger the testicles of the male, the more promiscuous the females of the species.
> 
> We are not naturally sexually monogamous as a species


We naturally kill others as well. Yes I enjoyed Athols book.

I am a man ... I c0ckblock.

We are what we are due to survival. Without going again through the polymory discussion ther eis an equilibirum in "society". Like anything else things ebb and flow. Things evolve. We have evolved. We have a brain. I think knowledge is power. So I am all for understanding our wiring. I use it continuously ... but we are more than this.

In general the dominant male is the one who survives to procreate. The one who can adapt. The AMOG. One just needs to understand our primitive biology but that alone is not enough. The dominant female as well. What those are change over time.

We can of course get into the whole Huxley thing with a Brave New World. Utopian philosophies. But I think we were meant to struggle through. There are social reasons for monogamy dispite the competing forces. There is an equilibrium to this. We are in the midst of a shift that we can attribute back to the 1940s and 1960s. Birth control. Women's place in the workforce. Technology. All of this is playing out. Things tend to have a pendulum effect however. We shall see.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> We naturally kill others as well. Yes I enjoyed Athols book.
> 
> I am a man ... I c0ckblock.
> 
> We are what we are due to survival. Without going again through the polymory discussion ther eis an equilibirum in "society". Like anything else things ebb and flow. Things evolve. We have evolved. We have a brain. I think knowledge is power. So I am all for understanding our wiring. I use it continuously ... but we are more than this.
> 
> In general the dominant male is the one who survives to procreate. The one who can adapt. The AMOG. One just needs to understand our primitive biology but that alone is not enough. The dominant female as well. What those are change over time.
> 
> We can of course get into the whole Huxley thing with a Brave New World. Utopian philosophies. But I think we were meant to struggle through. There are social reasons for monogamy dispite the competing forces. There is an equilibrium to this. We are in the midst of a shift that we can attribute back to the 1940s and 1960s. Birth control. Women's place in the workforce. Technology. All of this is playing out. Things tend to have a pendulum effect however. We shall see.


I think Athol is a misogynist, too. I meant I read it on a reputable science website, not Athol of all people.

And did you see my question? About what age you got married? Sorry, I am just dying to know


----------



## Entropy3000

Goldmember357 said:


> than you are in denial
> 
> 1) I can provide a very very long response and studies and evidence to prove otherwise if you would like? Its a fact and its actually widely accepted by many psychologist, psychiatrist, and scientist. There are really far to many reasons seriously ( a million) on why men cheat more and why males are programmed to cheat or rather not "cheat" but be almost incapable of devoting his life to one woman and not sleeping around. All evolutionary data supports this it is within the male biologically to be promiscuous and sleep around. There are far far to many differences between males and females within their brains to other differences not only that but the huge differences between the sexes in human history. Now just because the male is designed for sex and his essentially biologically programmed to cheat does not mean the male has to and it does not mean that we are incapable of not cheating. Fact of mater is we have control of our actions and can overcome what ever impulses we may have even if it goes against evolutionary means.
> 
> I am not trying to be rude. But the sooner women realize that men are essentially biologically programmed to cheat and the sooner more men realize this themselves the better. I am not justifying cheating but i am a person who is into logic, facts and being real i am a realist and all evidence seems to support this. This is why i feel people who are "love psychic" and "Love doctors" are by and large crazy delusional people. Women who get hurt all the time need to look at themselves and look at the men they are choosing to date (that is the problem) their selections. They also need to realize that they cannot treat sex as a reward or not put any effort into sex as it will destroy the male husband. Men who have no control and act purely on animalistici nsticnt and evolutionary instincts need to stop getting married and have a vasectomy and stop tying themselves up with women and relationships as they clearly are incapable of such things.
> 
> 
> 2) Yes there are many arguments and many ways to argue that marriage favors a male more than women. For instance divorced women almost always tend to be poorer than divorced males. In addition single mothers are one of the poorest groups in america, and women become often "damaged" goods after a child or after a failed marriage. However from a biological and evolutionary stand point it makes far more sense for the female to be in a monogamous relationship than a male. Given a females lesser status in regards to physical strength and feats and given her general role she has held throughout human history it would be more to her benefit to be in a monogamous relationship thus "marriage" favors the female. However only an "ideal" marriage. Ideally the man and woman would love each other and the woman would not be mistreated or anything and it would heavily favor her as marriage would provide her with some status along with power.
> 
> 
> Marriage for a male and monogamy goes against his instinctual behavior and that of what his mind will tell him as he will want to sleep with other women. Men have a drop in testosterone after they have children or rather "fatherhood" drops a males' testosterone level's. Given the males position throughout human history and his superior physical strength and the roles he has assumed he does not benefit as much as the female does when it comes to marriage. ( i could give many more examples) if you would like.
> 
> 
> Try not to think so much on what you read or see on here and try to think about how the human is from the earliest of times and the evolution along with the differences in the brain between male and female and the positions and roles in human history.


My comments are related to post 2000. I do not discount the past .. but it is the past. There is some very outdated thinking here.

Women are no longer dependent on men like in the past. They have their own money and power. They are not penalized for cheating like in the past. We are living in this century.

Birth Control.

Women are cheating in greater numbers. They are also less likely to hide that fact.

It also may depend on culture.


----------



## Goldmember357

LauraF said:


> No, I actually feel that at this point you are flooding my thread with redundant facts.
> Something about you makes me sense that you are pushing an agenda quite blatantly. However much I agree, it is starting to become counter-productive.
> 
> And from previous posts you are quite the misogynist (Quote from a previous post of yours: "a woman with kids means she either was raped or opened her legs." I am not interested in this kind of sh!t)


Ah i see 

Also i do not remember typing what you quoted from me. It seems to have been type by me in a improper way or perhaps what i typed was totally worded wrong (do to my own fault). I am married of course i could still be a Misogynist. However i feel i am far from that. Odd id say a woman with kids was raped or opened her legs when me and my wife are trying for kids of our own.


----------



## Goldmember357

Entropy3000 said:


> My comments are related to post 2000. I do not discount the past .. but it is the past. There is some very outdated thinking here.
> 
> Women are no longer dependent on men like in the past. They have their own money and power. They are not penalized for cheating like in the past. We are living in this century.
> 
> Birth Control.
> 
> Women are cheating in greater numbers. They are also less likely to hide that fact.
> 
> It also *may depend on culture.*


Upbringing is hugely important 

This is the biggest factor if you are referring to a post 2000 era as in now and American and many western Countries and the way they are set up than yes i could see your point. Its hard to rewrite evolution that is my case. I personally blame the growing population of uneducated people.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> I think Athol is a misogynist, too. I meant I read it on a reputable science website, not Athol of all people.
> 
> And did you see my question? About what age you got married? Sorry, I am just dying to know


I am sure Athol did not do the study. I like his views on some things. I add them to my "toolset". My marriage is better for his existence on this planet.

My wife and I were 23.


----------



## DTO

LauraF said:


> and 75% of men who were served with a divorce admit to infidelity at some point ni hte marriage
> the initiation of divorce might very well often be a reaction to something absolutely unacceptable in a relationship, dont you think?
> 
> Divorce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> under "causes for divorce"


You're misreading the statistic. It is that _of the 27% of divorces where infidelity is cited as the reason_, 75% were where the man admitted to infidelity and 25% were where the woman admitted to the infidelity. 

By your reading of the stats, every divorce is caused by divorce (75% + 25% = 100%).


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> My wife and I were 23.


So you didnt date much before her? As in she was one of your only sexual partners?


----------



## LauraF

DTO said:


> You're misreading the statistic. It is that _of the 27% of divorces where infidelity is cited as the reason_, 75% were where the man admitted to infidelity and 25% were where the woman admitted to the infidelity.


Yeah, so? Did I say 75% of divorces in general?
All I was saying was that if women initiated 2/3 of divorces, it was probably for a huge part because of male infidelity.


----------



## DTO

LauraF said:


> well you can either have a georgeous wife who can hold a nickel between her knees without dropping it while doing all the daily chores, or a plane jane who will be a slvt in the sack. Its usually not both, unless were talking about angelina jolie, and even so, she is haywire in so many other ways.
> Most guys would choose the former.


Hell no - most guys would not choose the former. Most guys would choose the lady who expresses a genuine desire to love him and be with him, expressed through passionate sex among other ways.

Besides, "slvt in the sack" is a non-sensical term. Being a "slvt" refers to someone who is promiscuous or otherwise has poor sexual morals. In no way does a lady being sexually giving to her partner (husband or bf) make her a slvt.

It seems like you think that a woman can either be proper and upstanding or sexually giving, but not both. It's almost like they are perceived to be mutually exclusive. It also seems like you think that women generally find a certain kind of sex to be undesireable; pretty girls can attract men without it so they don't, but plain girls have to because they can't get a man otherwise.

Why would you think this way? Me thinks someone has a bit of an axe to grind.


----------



## DTO

Trenton said:


> Is it so wrong that despite reality and popular opinion I want a man who only thinks about me? Is it wrong that I want to be so stellar, good in bed and a fabulous wife/lover that it's impossible for my man to think of other women without immediately defaulting back to me? Come on now, I'm willing to put in the work and all!
> 
> OK, might be unrealistic, but tell me it is realistic, possible and implausible any other way...anyway.


I actually think that what you seek is quite realistic. In fact, it's probable that you will get what you seek if you strive to be that quality of wife and lover.

There are always exceptions, but in general men who are treated well by their wives and are happy do not cheat, stray, perv strange women, etc.

OTOH, there is a type of woman who feels that her man should remain completely single-mindedly focused on her regardless of the quality of wife she is. So, there are two "ugly truths" you can make from this:

1) If you expect a man to remain focused on your wants and needs while you ignore his over an extended period, you will be disappointed at some point. Yes, us men are will to give first to get the ball rolling, but after some point it gets old and you have to give what we want as we have given what you want.

2) A big part of what a man considers a quality wife (as in when he says he has a good or bad wife) has to do with her sexual performance. Being a good sexual provider does not prevent you from being a bad wife, but being a bad sexual provider makes it really hard to be considered a truly good wife. By bad I don't mean inexperienced and trying to learn; it means refusing to try.


----------



## unbelievable

Entropy3000 said:


> My comments are related to post 2000. I do not discount the past .. but it is the past. There is some very outdated thinking here.
> 
> Women are no longer dependent on men like in the past. They have their own money and power. They are not penalized for cheating like in the past. We are living in this century.
> 
> Birth Control.
> 
> Women are cheating in greater numbers. They are also less likely to hide that fact.
> 
> It also may depend on culture.



It's easy to buy into the lie that women are no longer dependent upon men and that there is no penalty for a woman's adultary. Men bring more to the table than just money. Kids growing up without their fathers statistically get into more trouble, don't do as well in school, and have loads more pysch and emotional problems. A support check isn't a dad. A large percentage of households in poverty are headed by divorced women, so support payments don't replace a husband's income. Child support ends when the child reaches adulthood. Mom will still want to eat after her kids are grown. There are penalties to be paid but they are paid mostly by kids. A woman may have a job but two paychecks beat one and two pensions beat one. Similarly, kids need what mothers bring to the table and usually, the birth mother is best positioned to provide it. Both men and women win when a healthy marriage works out and both lose when it doesn't. Kids win when it works out and they suffer a great deal when it doesn't. Nobody's getting a free ride for screwing up.


----------



## DTO

LauraF said:


> So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


I never cheated on my ex during nearly 16 years of marriage. And, my ex never during that time was a good sexual partner. She rose to the level of "it's okay" for brief periods, but that's it. So, it can and does happen.

Did I look at other ladies? Occassionally, and generally just once an averting my eyes because I believe most women don't want to be "checked out" (unless by someone they are attracted to).

Did other women express interest even though I was married? Absolutely, on multiple occassions, even though I was not looking for it and thus not sending out "signals". In fact, two in particular stand out. One was many years ago where the lady was extra friendly, laughed at bad jokes, showed off her (very nice) figure when I was around. The other (a few years ago, not long before my ex moved out) was someone I knew but never realized she had it for me; this one was actually bold enough to offer to pick up my wife's slack, so to speak.

Nonetheless, I never strayed. It was simply a matter of personal pride and integrity. I write this not to show off how much of a stud I am (or at least was in the past). It is simply to show that I did the honorable thing (even though it was likely to my detriment) and stuck by my ex. Guys have morals too - I don't think I am the only one.


----------



## DTO

Entropy3000 said:


> Regular woman are dangerous.


Yes, some of them are, and many can tell when the wife or g/f is not taking care of business. The guy does not have to say anything - it is like some sort of unconscious / sub-conscious signal emanates from an unhappy guy.


----------



## moxy

LauraF said:


> I am going to make a guess here. Were you born in a foreign country?
> 
> Your English and something about your views make me think you are from a very traditional country. Any chance this might be true? just a hunch


LauraF, some of your posts have a lot of great sass to them, but this one was just rude. The dude was joining in the conversation and your slam was personal and off-point. Debate the points if you want, but don't attack the person about something that isn't relevant. 

Just calling it like I see it.


----------



## Halien

LauraF said:


> I am going to make a guess here. Were you born in a foreign country?
> 
> Your English and something about your views make me think you are from a very traditional country. Any chance this might be true? just a hunch


Interesting!!! This thread starts out by asking what men are really like, then the true model of man is revealed. All men are doomed to live in a pessimistic construct of simplemindedness and base instincts, wired by their little ole' DNA, in which they are unable or reluctant to resist. Anyone who does not respond to fit within this simple-minded mode, or like they live on an episode of Jerry Springer, is assumed to be from a foreign country.

Could be ... if you meet someone who sounds like they are from a foreign country, it might mean that "the theory of what men really are" is rather incomplete so far, based upon a very small statistical sampling of personal experience

It just seems much more like a jaded view of men prevails, using biological drives as support, well beyond the intended scope of the credible scientists who study the linkage between genetics and psychological drives in sentient, rational beings.


----------



## Halien

Trenton said:


> Is it so wrong that despite reality and popular opinion I want a man who only thinks about me? Is it wrong that I want to be so stellar, good in bed and a fabulous wife/lover that it's impossible for my man to think of other women without immediately defaulting back to me? Come on now, I'm willing to put in the work and all!
> 
> OK, might be unrealistic, but tell me it is realistic, possible and implausible any other way...anyway.


There are certain men who really are like this, given a marriage where the wife is also committed. My wife worries about aging, but it is really almost unexplainable how she gets more beautiful as the years pass. Even when we went through the lowest point, where we almost divorced, our respect for each other kept us faithful. In the early years, there were situations where her sister and several friends blatantly tried to build a relationship, but faithfulness was not a question. I think it boils down to becoming a man who knows himself, and what is important in life. Just a personal opinion, but if a guy can't readily describe how he looks forward to spending his life with his wife, and what that means to him, then he's not ready, and not the type who will be faithful.


----------



## hoag

Hey Halien -- do you tell your wife that she gets more beautiful with age. Mine looks sexier and more desireable as we age, and I tell her. -- But, due to her lack of self confidence, she thinks that I am full of ****. -- So, it is best that I do not tell her anything.


----------



## Entropy3000

You have a large misconception of an EA and the primary reasons for the brain chemicals.

A man having a sexual desire for a woman is not the same thing as an EA. EA being an Emotional Affair. This is not a requirment for a man to have a sexual attraction. So when a predator is after a woman he is not in an EA. He is just looking for sex. No doubt that is true for a woman as well. Perhaps dopamine comes from this as well but the primary driver is sexual lust.

When people are in an EA they have bonded emotionally. Typically this is as friends. However, because of poor boundaries and meeting needs it can turn into an EA. This happens a lot. This is where the confused feelings are. This can eventually lead into a PA. I believe that most reasonably happy married people fall into the EA category as compared to just folks who say, WTH I am going to pick someone up tonight.

The guys in the club are not in an EA with thiese women that they pickup. 

Maybe this is an ugly truth for you. Something you have trouble comprehending. That men can be emotional creatures as well. They can also be primarily motivated by sex. This latter motivation can turn into loving a woman.

So how about when tow people get married? Let's take those that marry out of love. Sometimes people are friends first and then fall in love. Sometimes it is more about sex but they date and fall in love. And all of the gray in between. So this is the mechanism. One would think that this happens with extramaritial affairs as well. That said. in a reasonably happy marriage there would be less of the just for sex mindset.

But I suspect there is a bitterness here.


----------



## Halien

hoag said:


> Hey Halien -- do you tell your wife that she gets more beautiful with age. Mine looks sexier and more desireable as we age, and I tell her. -- But, due to her lack of self confidence, she thinks that I am full of ****. -- So, it is best that I do not tell her anything.


At first, her self-confidence was an issue, but she has grown beyond that. I still tell her all the time.


----------



## Runs like Dog

My neighbor the ex stripper is one of the few people I regularly talk to. One of the sweetest people I know.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> So you didnt date much before her? As in she was one of your only sexual partners?


I was 23 not 17. By the time I met my wife I was looking for someone of substance. Not a party girl. I had had enough experinces with more casual sex. These were not the women Iwas looking for in a long term relationship. Good times for a while but I was maturing past that.


----------



## okeydokie

hoag said:


> Hey Halien -- do you tell your wife that she gets more beautiful with age. Mine looks sexier and more desireable as we age, and I tell her. -- But, due to her lack of self confidence, she thinks that I am full of ****. -- So, it is best that I do not tell her anything.


i have the same issue. i still find her beautiful and desirable and i have told her so on numerous occasions, she just isnt good at recieving compliments. so i stopped, that type of attitude is a big turnoff to me. maybe thats her intent


----------



## Entropy3000

Don't stop. Stopping validates their incorrect feelings. It is more than telling them. Get lost in them. Show them they are so amazing that you cannot control how you feel. Maybe you already do this.

I am not saying that they have their own feelings about aging. Also respect them by not going out of your way to notice younger women. Have eyes for her. I make sure that when I am with my wife she is my focus.

Show them plenty of affection and attention and do not be deterred. They actually need this.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> well you can either have a georgeous wife who can hold a nickel between her knees without dropping it while doing all the daily chores, or a plane jane who will be a slvt in the sack. Its usually not both, unless were talking about angelina jolie, and even so, she is haywire in so many other ways.
> Most guys would choose the former.


Huh? This is called a fallacy.

Why in the world would you state these two choices?

Men do want a lady in the street and a freak in the bed. They want a woman who is sexually responsive to them and are exclusive with them. What you state sounds like a Madonna Wh0re Complex or some other aberation. Odd really.

Life occurs in the shades of gray. But in this case you have painted two sad choices.


----------



## Entropy3000

unbelievable said:


> It's easy to buy into the lie that women are no longer dependent upon men and that there is no penalty for a woman's adultary. Men bring more to the table than just money. Kids growing up without their fathers statistically get into more trouble, don't do as well in school, and have loads more pysch and emotional problems. A support check isn't a dad. A large percentage of households in poverty are headed by divorced women, so support payments don't replace a husband's income. Child support ends when the child reaches adulthood. Mom will still want to eat after her kids are grown. There are penalties to be paid but they are paid mostly by kids. A woman may have a job but two paychecks beat one and two pensions beat one. Similarly, kids need what mothers bring to the table and usually, the birth mother is best positioned to provide it. Both men and women win when a healthy marriage works out and both lose when it doesn't. Kids win when it works out and they suffer a great deal when it doesn't. Nobody's getting a free ride for screwing up.


Not saying there are any free rides. It is a comparison between now and fifty years ago. It is about statistics. How the numbers can change based on this. Much has changed from the 1950s / 1960s. That is my point. Birth Control for one thing.

I am not referring to alimony or child support. I am talking about women in careers with their own money.


----------



## Kobo

We are sometimes nervous as hell when we say "everything will be alright"

The stress of being the breadwinner can weigh heavy on our mind

We didn't marry you for your looks. It is part of the equation but generally not the major reason

Contrary to network television execs, we are not idiots who burn the house down doing laundry 

We're not looking to trade you in for a younger model

We can be jealous of the the energy, effort, attention you put into our kids and if we are left wanting.


----------



## okeydokie

dont tell me you didnt get to something important because you "didnt have time" when i know you spent 8 hours on the computer researching baseball bats


----------



## HalfGrin

KanDo said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida I want to talk to you about! The difference between a gentleman and a rogue is his actions. you can't undo biology. A gentleman definitely notices the beautiful woman in the room and yes, he does, if ever so fleetingly, wonder about what she looks like naked. And the Magnus Opus comment is right out of some romance novel.


It is sad to see people who don't realize that self master is more than self denial.

The greatest philosophers of our time realized that one's mind is like clay to do with it what we will. Life hands you stimulus and you either dwell on it until the next more stimulating thing comes along or else you reach into your mind and think of something more noble.

I know this is the same as me saying that you have spent your life reacting to stimulus like a simple rodent, but in all honesty I only intend to empower you to be a more evolved individual. One who has the ability to shape his own mind and destiny.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

unbelievable said:


> I know it would hurt my wife but I know my brain is capable of having sex with another woman and never giving her a second thought afterwards.


I know you said your "brain" here....The brain is different than accually living it out...even if you was FREE & single to do so. I suppose my husbands brain could do this ... (a quesetion for him tonight!) 

....By his own words (darn I wish he would post on here -he would if I really wanted him too)....he was never the user type...he has told me....even in his youth, he would never have sex without feelings for a girl, he is the type that NEEDS an emotional connection. He has always been this way. It is not even sex to him. He would choose his hand over the other . 

Even now.. after being married over 20 yrs... he sometimes feels "selfish" if I am not getting mine, he loves a BJ - don't get me wrong, but he would choose pleasing me. He is just not the norm in some ways. He also can not have sex if he is upset, if we have a fight --he is out for the count.... we have to make up or I ain't gettin' any. 




> *Halien said * : *There are certain men who really are like this, given a marriage where the wife is also committed*. My wife worries about aging, but it is really almost unexplainable how she gets more beautiful as the years pass. Even when we went through the lowest point, where we almost divorced, our respect for each other kept us faithful. In the early years, there were situations where her sister and several friends blatantly tried to build a relationship, but faithfulness was not a question. I think it boils down to becoming a man who knows himself, and what is important in life. *Just a personal opinion, but if a guy can't readily describe how he looks forward to spending his life with his wife, and what that means to him, then he's not ready, and not the type who will be faithful*.


 My husband is like this described here. 


.


----------



## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> We are sometimes nervous as hell when we say "everything will be alright"
> 
> The stress of being the breadwinner can weigh heavy on our mind
> 
> We didn't marry you for your looks. It is part of the equation but generally not the major reason
> 
> Contrary to network television execs, we are not idiots who burn the house down doing laundry
> 
> We're not looking to trade you in for a younger model
> 
> We can be jealous of the the energy, effort, attention you put into our kids and if we are left wanting.


Awesome and dead on.


----------



## Deejo

LauraF said:


> So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


So is this the crux of your question?

I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you are looking for, other than it can't possibly be something 'positive' based on your post title.

You have been affected by infidelity I presume? It's a lousy feeling.


----------



## HalfGrin

Entropy3000 said:


> Wow. Not my definition of a Gentleman at all. A Gentleman is a man of substance but he surely does notices women. He is very Alpha. He is a scholar of something. He may be Engineer or a Soldier or whatever. He is not an effeminate man. He appreciates women. He may be chivalrous or into bishido.
> 
> He may indeed have "manners" in the traditional sense but he is a man's man as well. I just do not buy into this picture at all. Do not confuse education with being a Gentlemen though many are well educated. It is just about something else altogether. It is about choices and values. He is a man and likes women.


The highest form of love for a woman is for a man to share all of his heart, soul, and natural urges with said woman and no other. 

The same is true of a woman's love for a man. Suggesting that a man who hoots and hollers after other women somehow has more to give his spouse and is more of a man for it, is odd indeed.

When did the picture of a man begin to slide more toward ape? 

I wrestled and ran track in high school. I ran marathons in college. I've been rock climbing, hunting, camping since I was young. I've been in my share of fights (and enjoyed them as any man will). I however refuse to recognize someone with diminished mental discipline and temperament as the pinnacle of manhood.


----------



## Entropy3000

HalfGrin said:


> The highest form of love for a woman is for a man to share all of his heart, soul, and natural urges with said woman and no other.
> 
> The same is true of a woman's love for a man. Suggesting that a man who hoots and hollers after other women somehow has more to give his spouse and is more of a man for it, is odd indeed.
> 
> When did the picture of a man begin to slide more toward ape?
> 
> I wrestled and ran track in high school. I ran marathons in college. I've been rock climbing, hunting, camping since I was young. I've been in my share of fights (and enjoyed them as any man will). I however refuse to recognize someone with diminished mental discipline and temperament as the pinnacle of manhood.


No one said hoot and holler. You are now giving choices not in evidence. A Gentleman is respectful. A man can be all in for his lady.

This has nothing to do with being an artist with some unnatural sense of repression or denial. he can be faithful. It is not a choice of being the picture you painted and a sleaze.

Reread you original post. You went on a little flowery. It is not what you are saying here. 

Having discipline is wonderful in life and sports. Discipline can take many forms. In no way can we put those in sports as models for fidelity either. You are not suggesting that of course. So one can be disciplined in one area of life and not in another. 

That said, I personally believe in discipline in what I do. So we may be talking at cross purposes here. We probably mostly agree. I just think a man can appreciate a beuatiful looking woman and not poke his own eyes out. He needs to have enough respect and discispline to act in a faithful manner.


----------



## Mrs. T

Accipiter777 said:


> 1. We don't care if the paint is white, eggshell, or ivory.
> 2. We are not horny dogs... You release Pheromones.
> 3. Our ego's are as fragile as your view of yourself.
> 
> and just to be funny...
> 
> 4. when you say...
> 
> Jen's having a baby, lets go to get some things for her, she doesn't know the sex.
> 
> we hear
> 
> Jen's having a *baby*, *lets go* to get some things she needs to *have*. she doesn't know the *sex*.


This is priceless...thanks for the laugh!


----------



## HalfGrin

LauraF said:


> Like I already wrote:
> 
> Same could be said for gay men.
> Just because they are programmed as they are doesnt mean they have to act on it.
> Fact is, they all do. Because thats who they are.
> 
> How we are programmed is largely what we are.
> 
> And I know these statostics, adn facts about men. I know them all too well..
> 
> 
> So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


I think it is much easier to differentiate a man with the constitution to cheat from a man who has the discipline for loyalty.

Those who seem to react to every little thing, are self-indulgent, lack discipline in other areas, and care more about the weekend than what lies 40 years down the road, definitely lack self mastery.

Those who have shown incredible tolerance, ability to plan ahead, consider multiple sides of an issue, have an adequate nest egg, are thrifty, healthy, and show any ability to put off pleasure today for tomorrow are much more likely to possess the mental capacity for loyalty.


----------



## Entropy3000

Another truth for many is that despite our focus on work and our family finances, and raising children and concern for that personal trainer of yours or that co-worker and us not showing the type of attention you need when you need it, given the instant choice of giving or risking our lives for you we would in a heartbeat.

I think you would rather we live for you. In most cases we do. We just do not always know what the right thing is at the right time. We try. The ugly truth is that most men try. Not all, but most. We tend to be clueless. Indeed. It works best when we try together.


----------



## sandc

LauraF said:


> Aren't you the former open relationship guy?
> And yes Monica Belucci is hawt


 The open relationship is only fantasy. We did try it at one point. In short, it was a disaster. Took years for us to recover from that. So no, I am not the open relationship guy and she is not the open relationship gal.

As far as Monica Belucci goes... and open relationship status aside, my wife and I both have our "lists." It's basically a free pass list. If a person on that list wants to have sex with one of us then that person is free to do so. Now again it's just fantasy but it's fun! Because really, you never know when Hugh Jackman is going to knock on the door (he's on her list.)


----------



## Blue Moon

Good stuff in here, fellas. I have to ask, though, are you expressing these thoughts and this side of yourself freely to your wife? I know sex droughts are a big topic, and I feel that my wife is more attracted to me when I openly express myself raw and uncut, and push my "agenda" without worrying about offending her or asking permission. I've found that it pays to not edit yourself for her sake in many situations because it allows you to be a man and lead instead of follow.


----------



## sandc

BM, I can honestly say my wife and I do. We have talked about fantasies, even the deep dark ones, affairs, boundaries, you name it. She likes the sharing, I like the sex! And I love her.


----------



## Blue Moon

sandc said:


> BM, I can honestly say my wife and I do. We have talked about fantasies, even the deep dark ones, affairs, boundaries, you name it. She likes the sharing, I like the sex! And I love her.


Great stuff! I think that's the key. Your wife may or may not be an exception, but I find that a lot of women have hangups and need a guy to "let them off the hook" by being the aggressive overtly sexual one, so that she doesn't have to feel self conscious or like a wh*re, because her husband is already a horn dog lol. And that in turn opens the lines of communication for her to embrace her inner wh*re.


----------



## Toffer

Well this thread was pretty interesting until you guys went WAAAAAAy south with it!


----------



## Deejo

Quiche isn't so bad ...


----------



## CH

My wife was pissed at me the other night so she makes a comment

When you're looking for sex or get sex you're nice and sweet and caring.

When you don't get sex then you're pissy, moody and a pain.

Well, PUT 2 and 2 together DAMMIT!

Get sex = greatest husband

Don't get sex = crabby, moody husband.

All I need is 20-30 minutes and you get the greatest husband in the world!

Also when I'm watching sports on TV and you're yapping and I have to kindly ask to you please let me finish this and I'll get what you need done...

What I really mean is STFU!


----------



## LauraF

moxy said:


> LauraF, some of your posts have a lot of great sass to them, but this one was just rude. The dude was joining in the conversation and your slam was personal and off-point. Debate the points if you want, but don't attack the person about something that isn't relevant.
> 
> Just calling it like I see it.


Wasn't attacking. Was curious. 
It was irrelevant, but so was asking Entropy how many women he's laid. 
I get sidetracked sometimes.


----------



## okeydokie

when i am watching something on tv you know i want to hear it, dont start making a ruckus and blabbing, ya know, like when american idol is on and you snap at me for breathing too loud


----------



## LauraF

Deejo said:


> So is this the crux of your question?
> 
> I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you are looking for, other than it can't possibly be something 'positive' based on your post title.
> 
> *You have been affected by infidelity I presume?* It's a lousy feeling.


This wasn't a thread started with some secret purpose.
Basically I want to know what men think. Do I bring stereotypes and negative experiences or beliefs to the table? Yes, and i do have my baggage. 

No, havent been affected by infidelity. 

I am trying my hardest to learn what is being said on here. Some of these things are completely new to me.

I knew men love sex. i did not know they felt unloved when they dont get it. Good to know, i wont forget.

Thanks, guys! :smthumbup:


----------



## Browncoat

LauraF said:


> This wasn't a thread started with some secret purpose.
> Basically I want to know what men think. Do I bring stereotypes and negative experiences or beliefs to the table? Yes, and i do have my baggage.
> 
> No, havent been affected by infidelity.
> 
> I am trying my hardest to learn what is being said on here. Some of these things are completely new to me.
> 
> I knew men love sex. i did not know they felt unloved when they dont get it. Good to know, i wont forget.
> 
> Thanks, guys! :smthumbup:


It's completely true. I know my wife loves me in my head... I just can't feel it in my heart if we've been too long w/o sex. I know in my head that it shouldn't be that way, but in my heart I can't help feel distant, unloved, unlovable, unwanted, etc.


----------



## LauraF

Browncoat said:


> It's completely true. I know my wife loves me in my head... I just can't feel it in my heart if we've been too long w/o sex. I know in my head that it shouldn't be that way, but in my heart I can't help feel distant, unloved, unlovable, unwanted, etc.


Seems like such an easy thing to fix to keep the marital bliss going, though.
I am relieved, actually.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> This wasn't a thread started with some secret purpose.
> Basically I want to know what men think. Do I bring stereotypes and negative experiences or beliefs to the table? Yes, and i do have my baggage.
> 
> No, havent been affected by infidelity.
> 
> I am trying my hardest to learn what is being said on here. Some of these things are completely new to me.
> 
> I knew men love sex. *i did not know they felt unloved when they dont get it*. Good to know, i wont forget.
> 
> Thanks, guys! :smthumbup:


Then you could not have read His Needs Her Needs and misssed this. It most common for men's #1 and #2 needs to be:

Sexual Fullfillment and Respect. Not all men are the same but this is very common.

Many say that men connect with a woman via sex. I agree. Some say that woman have to connect ot have sex.

HNHN is worth a read even if you do not agree with all of it.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Wasn't attacking. Was curious.
> It was irrelevant, *but so was asking Entropy how many women he's laid. *
> I get sidetracked sometimes.


So perhaps this is an elaborate ruse by my wife. 

All I can say was that it was NOT irrelevant to those women. 

<subliminal>
Honey Bear you already know. I have held nothing back sweetheart.
</subliminal>


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> Then you could not have read His Needs Her Needs and misssed this. It most common for men's #1 and #2 needs to be:
> 
> Sexual Fullfillment and Respect. Not all men are the same but this is very common.
> 
> Many say that men connect with a woman via sex. I agree. Some say that woman have to connect ot have sex.
> 
> HNHN is worth a read even if you do not agree with all of it.


"get plastic surgery to make him love you"
That book?

For the win.


----------



## PooDoo

Entropy3000 said:


> Then you could not have read His Needs Her Needs and misssed this. It most common for men's #1 and #2 needs to be:
> 
> Sexual Fullfillment and Respect. Not all men are the same but this is very common.
> 
> Many say that men connect with a woman via sex. I agree. Some say that woman have to connect ot have sex.
> 
> HNHN is worth a read even if you do not agree with all of it.


I agree. I need sex and to feel needed (respected/appreciated/trusted). If one if missing, then I feel either pissed or distant. If I feel disrespected, but am getting sex, I'm still not particularly happy. If I'm getting both - yeow!!!! We're not all that hard to figure out.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> "get plastic surgery to make him love you"
> That book?
> 
> For the win.


Read the book LauraF. Knowledge is where you find it.
If you have read it you missed a lot or are just yanking our chains.

Some people -- glass is half full

Still other people -- glass is half empty

Me -- The glass was designed too large for the requirements but I'll fill it if it needs filling

You -- Why did these guys do that in my glass?

Come on seriously are you just enjoying being this way?


----------



## okeydokie

i think when women say men are hard to figure out, they are actually saying that they dont understand why we dont see things the way they do. we are too simple to appease, thats the real problem


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> "get plastic surgery to make him love you"
> That book?
> 
> For the win.


Read the book LauraF. Knowledge is where you find it.
If you have read it you missed a lot or are just yanking our chains.

Some people -- glass is half full

Still other people -- glass is half empty

Me -- The glass was designed too large for the requirements but I'll fill it if it needs filling

You -- Why did these guys do that in my glass?

Come on seriously are you just enjoying being this way?

Where is TRBE? OMG ... she is Banned!!!! Save us BrightEyes you are our only hope.


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> Read the book LauraF. Knowledge is where you find it.
> If you have read it you missed a lot or are just yanking our chains.
> 
> Some people -- glass is half full
> 
> Still other people -- glass is half empty
> 
> *Me -- The glass was designed too large for the requirements but I'll fill it if it needs filling
> 
> You -- Why did these guys do that in my glass?*
> 
> Come on seriously are you just enjoying being this way?
> 
> Where is TRBE?


What is TRBE?

I'll read the book. I am not yanking anybodys chain. And being what way?
And what does the bold part mean?

:scratchhead:


----------



## PooDoo

okeydokie said:


> i think when women say men are hard to figure out, they are actually saying that they dont understand why we dont see things the way they do. we are too simple to appease, thats the real problem


So true - I say what I mean - period. She thinks - there has got to be more in what he is saying.


----------



## LovesHerMan

Entropy3000 said:


> Where is TRBE? OMG ... she is Banned!!!! Save us BrightEyes you are our only hope.


Her new username is Mavash.


----------



## LauraF

There are just so many things I disagree with in this book. (His needs her needs)
Its basic premise already doesnt resonate with me:

"We think the dynamics of a good mariage depend on some myserious blend of the 'right' people. Or if a marriage turns out badly, we call the two people 'wrong' for eachother. *While its true that two inherently incompatible people might marry, it's unusual*."

Really?
I don't think this is true. I think this is an frighteningly common scenario.
I don't think a lot of things in the book are true. 
I just don't think its a good relationship book, from what I have read so far.
Is it okay if I think that or will it doom me as a partner/spouse?


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> What is TRBE?
> 
> I'll read the book. I am not yanking anybodys chain. And being what way?
> And what does the bold part mean?
> 
> :scratchhead:


It really means that I look at things differently than many others do but I will attempt things many will not because intuitively I can see the possibilities. Many people can but many will not allow themselves to do so. Life is what you make it. Everything and I mean everything has a Yin and Yang. Nothing is perfect. And that in itself is perfection. For every good attribute of anything there is another that is less so depending how we view it. So you have to find the good in things while avoiding the bad. Men and Women have choice. What a horrible world if everyone was alike and Men = Women.

I was just not clever enough to write something like "There is nothing you can sing that can't be sung". 

So yes, read the book and realize that a human being wrote it. He has some interesting insights. It was an epiphany for me. It was there when I needed it the most. It is very traditional in many ways but do not let that deter you. Many of his points are timeless in my opinion. But you take what feeds you and let the rest go.

TRBE = TheRealBrightEyes 
She is conspicuous in her absence on this thread. There was a disturbance in the force.
I just checked and I see she is Banned.


----------



## Entropy3000

lovesherman said:


> Her new username is Mavash.


OMG. Really!?


----------



## LovesHerMan

Entropy3000 said:


> OMG. Really!?


My assumption. Her posts match TRBE's attitude.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trenton said:


> Well I know I for one miss my online loverrr darn it! Mavash. come back to me baby!


You guys have tag teamed me on many an occasion but have made this a very interesting place.

She will always be Bright Eyes to me. But you have made my favorite all time post of:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

lovesherman said:


> My assumption. Her posts match TRBE's attitude.


I see. Shhhhhhhh. I was wondering if she was LauraF messing with us. I won't let on though.


----------



## Accipiter777

LauraF said:


> no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.


Me either, so as a man, I dont put myself in the position or create a situation that makes this a feasible, likely, or encouraging to happen.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> There are just so many things I disagree with in this book. (His needs her needs)
> Its basic premise already doesnt resonate with me:
> 
> "We think the dynamics of a good mariage depend on some myserious blend of the 'right' people. Or if a marriage turns out badly, we call the two people 'wrong' for eachother. *While its true that two inherently incompatible people might marry, it's unusual*."
> 
> Really?
> I don't think this is true. I think this is an frighteningly common scenario.
> I don't think a lot of things in the book are true.
> I just don't think its a good relationship book, from what I have read so far.
> Is it okay if I think that or will it doom me as a partner/spouse?


Reading something you disagree with allows you to undertand others better that do at the least. It would be fascinating if you felt the anthithesis of ALL that Harley asserts.

I suggested based on the area where we define our needs. It is meant to be an exercise for a couple to use the framework to list out in order their emotional needs. Very often women have similar needs but the priorities are different. It facilitates communication. It allows you to state what your needs are. Many women learn just how important sex is to their men in a way they did not see before. Men realize in a way they did not realize how important affection and attention are to their wives. It seems common sense but so few people actually act like they get it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trenton said:


> Obviously a very deep and thought out post I might add.
> 
> Brighteyes and I had similar views but seems there's an influx in here lately of women with similar views to my own which has me sitting back and reading rather than participating. *I was also wondering if Laura might be Brighteyes*...who I actually will always remember as *Brennan*. :rofl:


Interesting you were wondering that.

Brennan ... Yes that was before my time.


----------



## Conrad

lovesherman said:


> Her new username is Mavash.


I don't see any similarities between TRBE and Mavash.


----------



## LauraF

Conrad said:


> I don't see any similarities between TRBE and Mavash.


And this isn't what this thread was about.


----------



## LovesHerMan

Conrad said:


> I don't see any similarities between TRBE and Mavash.


No? She said she created a new username this year, and she is trying to be less harsh. She was disowned by her parents, and lives in the South. She is a homemaker, however, while TRBE was a CPA. Guess we'll have to see if she outs herself :rofl:


----------



## LauraF

Entropy3000 said:


> It is if it is an ugly truth.


Hold on, let me just unbotton my pants so I am more comfortable rofling.


----------



## LauraF

Trenton said:


> Brighteyes' parents didn't disown her, she lived in TX but was raised in California and wasn't a CPA, she worked in a plastic surgery office didn't she?
> 
> She's a FB friend of mine but can't seem to get in touch with her. Last we spoke she was going to become a volunteer at a women's shelter. I for one hope she is doing fabulously but I honestly hope that for everyone.


Seriously, you are hijacking my thread, love.


----------



## LauraF

Trenton said:


> In truth, it seems you asked men on these boards for their truth and only counted those who posted views that jive with some deeply held belief you have that all men cheat. I guess in fairness to you, you didn't say what you wanted the ugly truth for, but still...


I wanted one-liners, or little stories that seem like they are too ugly to say but have an underlying worth to them in that they explain a man's need. 
And I responded to those who Ifound interesting or thought rang true. doesnt mean i discount anything else just because i dont respond to every post


----------



## LovesHerMan

Trenton said:


> Brighteyes' parents didn't disown her, she lived in TX but was raised in California and wasn't a CPA, she worked in a plastic surgery office didn't she?
> 
> She's a FB friend of mine but can't seem to get in touch with her. Last we spoke she was going to become a volunteer at a women's shelter. I for one hope she is doing fabulously but I honestly hope that for everyone.


Maybe so. She just reminded me so much of TRBE.

So let's get back to ugly truths now.


----------



## Entropy3000

lovesherman said:


> No? She said she created a new username this year, and she is trying to be less harsh. She was disowned by her parents, and lives in the South. She is a homemaker, however, while TRBE was a CPA. Guess we'll have to see if she outs herself :rofl:


Ok maybe we need a thread called TRBE. 

She was from San Diego and lived in Austin with her Hubby. We had a lot of animated discussions but I felt she was a really good person. I still have the scars and the T-shirt. 

And I swear we were just friends. ( marriage humor folks )


----------



## LauraF

Trenton said:


> I don't know. I'm not really doing that alone. It's like a whole group of hijackers. Why you have to point me out and make me feel all bad. :rofl:


i'm glad you're amused.
now if you're done posting irrelevant stuff and attacking my reasons for starting this thread, we can go on and have some fun with it, maybe


----------



## that_girl

Do men honestly secretly like their back/butt/shoulder hair? I see men with it and wonder why they don't remove it but then I wonder if they secretly like it  Anyone? That would be an ugly truth.....no?


----------



## LauraF

Trenton said:


> You are magnifying what you view as ugly. I understand. I don't see it as ugly though. What's ugly about it? We can sum it um:
> 
> ~Men like sex
> ~Men are capable of a deep intimate relationship where sex plays a very important role
> ~Men like looking at women they want to have sex with because they like sex
> ~Men are fallible and some will cheat
> ~Men are capable of loving their wives and not cheating...ever
> 
> Where's the ugly?


It seems its all about sex. You will all attack me for saying this, but I am completely sincere in that it bothers me to some extent.

Sex is sex. You can have it with almost anyone.

So where in all of this is the love? It sometimes sounds like a woman is a woman is a woman, as though she were a means to an end.

Yeah,, sex is great, the more the better. 
But there must be more to relationships than sex, even to men, and all I hear is: "Whatever we do, we do it to get in your pants."

That's an ugly truth in my eyes. It diminishes what I think love should be like, which is a true connection between two people.
Not smoking mirrors (what men say and how they act) do get you to do something (put out and shut up)


----------



## Entropy3000

Ok here is one. My older sister pointed it out to me.

She said that I turned out ok considering my girl next door was a lesbian. Which later on we learned was true. I was never able to make any real progress with her. And no it was not because of me ... or was it? So here I am. That is an ugly truth.

Also while I was an alter boy I never learned my Latin.

I have an extraordinary affinity for women wearing plaid. I know that came from my high school days at our lady of eternal suffering high school ( not the real name ).

I believe in long slow deep soft wet kisses that last three days.

I Believe

I am also not interested in a woman that is interested in that boy.


----------



## Entropy3000

> Sex is sex. You can have it with almost anyone.


You are so far off base it is UFB.

Sex is not just sex for many of us.

To a great extent this is just masturbation in a vagina that you refer to. I understand from a single guy going to get laid persepctive sex can be just sex.

Maybe this is why you do not see the difference in an EA from just going out and banging someone. Totally different things going on here.

Men need a sexual relaionship with their mates. It is not just sex for most of us. It is the way we connect emotionally.

Sexual fullfillment for most husbands is an exclusive sexual relationship with their wife. I got married for this. I wanted to live my life with my lover.

But have we discovered an ugly truth about some women? Is this why so many don't get it? They view sex as just sex and not important?

It seems you are just reiterating that women need to connect and love to have sexual fullfillment. Ok fine. Well men need to have sexual fullfillment to connect, love and be loved.

The ugly truth is that many of us love our wives more than ourselves and some husbands don't. And none of us is perfect.


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

Entropy3000 said:


> But have we discovered an ugly truth about some women? Is this why so many don't get it? They view sex as just sex and not important?


this was one thing my exw told me when talking about her affairs.
' no big deal, just sex and sex is just sex. doesnt mean anything'

now that was an ugly truth from her i guess


----------



## Accipiter777

Entropy3000 said:


> You are so far off base it is UFB.
> 
> Sex is not just sex for many of us.
> 
> To a great extent this is just masturbation in a vagina that you refer to. I understand from a single guy going to get laid persepctive sex can be just sex.
> 
> Maybe this is why you do not see the difference in an EA from just going out and banging someone. Totally different things going on here.
> 
> Men need a sexual relaionship with their mates. It is not just sex for most of us. It is the way we connect emotionally.
> 
> Sexual fullfillment for most husbands is an exclusive sexual relationship with their wife. I got married for this. I wanted to live my life with my lover.
> 
> But have we discovered an ugly truth about some women? Is this why so many don't get it? They view sex as just sex and not important?
> 
> It seems you are just reiterating that women need to connect and love to have sexual fullfillment. Ok fine. Well men need to have sexual fullfillment to connect, love and be loved.
> 
> The ugly truth is that many of us love our wives more than ourselves and some husbands don't. And none of us is perfect.


:smthumbup::iagree:

CAN'T AGREE MORE.

There REALLY needs to be a "LOVE IT" button.....


----------



## SimplyAmorous

LauraF said:


> It seems its all about sex. You will all attack me for saying this, but I am completely sincere in that it bothers me to some extent.
> 
> Sex is sex. You can have it with almost anyone.
> 
> So where in all of this is the love? It sometimes sounds like a woman is a woman is a woman, as though she were a means to an end.
> 
> Yeah,, sex is great, the more the better.
> But there must be more to relationships than sex, even to men, and all I hear is: "Whatever we do, we do it to get in your pants."
> 
> That's an ugly truth in my eyes. It diminishes what I think love should be like, which is a true connection between two people.
> Not smoking mirrors (what men say and how they act) do get you to do something (put out and shut up)


As a women, I have never looked at sex like this in my marriage. Neither has my husband.... sex is NOT just sex, sex is "Making Love" ....my husband will not even refer to it as "sex", that is how strongly he feels.... There is a very moving spirited well of emotional sharing that floods us when we are together in each others arms , it has the power to uplift me on high....like nothing else... something profoundly sacred about it. 

I always find it very sad when I read how others view sex like this .....JUST SEX... I can not relate to this. Never had that experience. 

You might be able to have it with JUST ANYONE...but why would you want too? This is diminishing it's beauty, I also feel it has the power to depersonalize our emotions when we are engaging without "feeling" behind this act, it takes a part of us. 

For the perspective I am trying to relate .... please read some of my points here : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html



> *2. *I will teach my daughter .....Sex is beautiful thing ...but it has it's place, there is a time & a season for such beauty... it is meant to be shared between 2 people who LOVE each other. There is no greater pleasure God has given us on this earth, no emotional BONDING that has more meaning -as the giving & receiving in this way, that this act has the awesome potential to Create NEW LIFE..... that it should never be used casually, or carelessly, because of this very fact, It carries the greatest of responsibilities with it. It is the awesomest of the AWESOME. I will refer to it as "sacred" even.





> *8. **I will teach my daughter there is a heavy EMOTIONAL side to sex*.... Sex releases certain chemicals in our brains that change the way we think ...the hormones released work to bond us to our partner, it's like gluing two pieces of paper together. If you tried to tear those pages apart, the break wouldn't be a clean one. The same kind of thing happens when there's a breakup in a sexual relationship. These break ups can be as painful as mini-divorces. If this happens over & over & over, it has a way of de-personalizing our emotions.


What is the difference between making love and having sex

What Sex Means to a Man 

Sex Is an Emotional Need - 

.


----------



## Entropy3000

Accipiter777 said:


> :smthumbup::iagree:
> 
> CAN'T AGREE MORE.
> 
> There REALLY needs to be a "LOVE IT" button.....


I think LauraF knows my buttons all too well. LOL.

I feel like Jose Jalapeno on a stick.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF is Banned.

Whoever they were ... they were able to make me reflect on things that had been buried for a long time. Like I said there is good and bad in all things. I had to walk away from the keyboard and literally give my wife a hug. That was no joke. And what ever their motive this was actually ok even though it got to me. A bit cathartic. Ultimately it reminded me of what a great person I married, so it is all good. No harm LauraF.

And Bright Eyes, I miss you where ever you are.


----------



## Trenton

D'oh. I do agree with her to a point. I do think wrapping my mind around this idea that men always think about sex is hard for me to grasp but I do think cheating is a choice and many men choose not to cheat. The same goes for women really. They might cheat for different reasons but it's still cheating.

Beats me. I've no idea how men are so productive in their lives with all that thinking about sex. I've never had that problem but I'd imagine it'd be quite distracting and frustrating.


----------



## shy_guy

Entropy3000 said:


> LauraF is Banned.


For real ... hmm ... That's too bad. I'm really sorry that happened (And I'm not joking when I say that).


----------



## Conrad

Entropy3000 said:


> LauraF is Banned.


Happens to the best of us


----------



## Trenton

Conrad said:


> Happens to the best of us


You miss TRBE don't you...


----------



## heartsbeating

chillymorn said:


> silence is golden sometimes.
> 
> shut the f*** up and watch the movie!


hahah...guilty. We caught up on episodes of The Walking Dead, marathon style. He said (while chuckling), "Wait, can you press the menu option? It seems we have it set to commentary on." I looked at him confused. Then he gave me a wink and I started laughing, realizing I'd been commenting the whole way through with opinions on the characters and what makes a good zombie plan.


----------



## heartsbeating

Boat with a heli-pad, for the record. That's my plan. With a helicopter handy.


----------



## Trenton

michzz said:


> Think of it like a lot of ladies feel about shoes.


Then that should be fairly tolerable, no?

Does it truly just depend on how much testosterone one has coursing through their veins? Is it really that simple?


----------



## Halien

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok maybe we need a thread called TRBE.
> 
> She was from San Diego and lived in Austin with her Hubby. We had a lot of animated discussions but I felt she was a really good person. I still have the scars and the T-shirt.
> 
> And I swear we were just friends. ( marriage humor folks )


I think she's still here under a different alias, but not one you guys mentioned. Really, she was too smart to reply on the threads like this if she came back. Most likely, you'll just see an occasional Like on one of your replies ... I would think. 

I'm just joking. We were also friends. But I do have my suspicions....


----------



## SunnyT

What do you have to do to get banned?


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

SunnyT said:


> What do you have to do to get banned?


can be almost anything sometimes.
depends on their mood at any given moment.


----------



## shy_guy

SunnyT said:


> What do you have to do to get banned?


I saw what Runs Like A Dog did to get banned. I can't really defend him. It almost sounded like he wanted to get banned.

I didn't see what LauraF did. I'm sorry she got banned. I was having a discussion with her elsewhere, and I'm sorry it couldn't continue. I read through most of this thread, and wasn't going to get involved (still won't on the main topics), but I posted when I saw she got banned. I wish she hadn't been banned.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> I think she's still here under a different alias, but not one you guys mentioned. Really, she was too smart to reply on the threads like this if she came back. Most likely, you'll just see an occasional Like on one of your replies ... I would think.
> 
> I'm just joking. We were also friends. But I do have my suspicions....


She really played me. LOL. But I felt her presence. Once I saw TRBE had been banned I knew it. In hindsight I wish I had PMd her.

Going back over the exchanges we had in a couple of threads it was obvious.

So I am like the last person to realize this and blurted it out. Dang.


----------



## Entropy3000

LauraF said:


> Wasn't attacking. Was curious.
> It was irrelevant, *but so was asking Entropy how many women he's laid. *
> I get sidetracked sometimes.


:slap: :rofl:


----------



## dubbizle

You asked a great question Laura no please stop talking.


----------



## Toffer

Well, PUT 2 and 2 together DAMMIT!

Get sex = greatest husband

Don't get sex = crabby, moody husband.

All I need is 20-30 minutes and you get the greatest husband in the world!

Thanks Cheating! This is it exactly! But as I've said in the past, it is a classic chicken and the egg quandry. Women need to be romanced and emotionally satisfied before they have sex. Men need sex for that emotional bond. Which comes first?


----------



## Toffer

LauraF,
I was enjoying the one liners too!

Then everyone started to get all "deep" on this!


----------



## okeydokie

Toffer said:


> Thanks Cheating! This is it exactly! But as I've said in the past, it is a classic chicken and the egg quandry. Women need to be romanced and emotionally satisfied before they have sex. Men need sex for that emotional bond. *Which comes first*?


unselfishness by both parties


----------



## alone_not_lonely

Trenton said:


> Brighteyes' parents didn't disown her, she lived in TX but was raised in California and wasn't a CPA, she worked in a plastic surgery office didn't she?


Lol... with all this speculation, this is starting to sound a bit like a Big Foot legend


----------



## okeydokie

alone_not_lonely said:


> Lol... with all this speculation, this is starting to sound a bit like a Big Foot legend


bigfoot is NOT a legend, wise up, they are real


----------



## Kobo

Conrad said:


> Happens to the best of us


Susan2010
TRBE
LauraF


It happens when your hurt drives every post. The posts reflect your hurt and anger. You have to be able to step outside of your own hurts in order to have a good discussion on a message board or in a relationship.


----------



## Entropy3000

alone_not_lonely said:


> Lol... with all this speculation, this is starting to sound a bit like a Big Foot legend


I was definitely thinking of this as an urban legend.

I am always telling folks to stay with the gut feelings they have. I am sticking with mine in this case.


----------



## Deejo

SunnyT said:


> What do you have to do to get banned?


Subscribe and post on the forum. It's a lottery really ... kind of like The Hunger Games.

Ah, but seriously; you can find the guidelines, here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html


----------



## Unhappy2011

LauraF said:


> You'er anonymous on here, and nobody's gonna scream at you for saying it.
> 
> So give us some of the ugliest truths about what women don't/should know about men.
> 
> This isn't meant to make men look bad. There are things, some things women just dont know about men. What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?


All women know this, but why so many can't manage it is beyond me.

Fat on a woman, or anybody actually, is the biggest turn off ever.

Why would anybody not want to look their best is beyond me. 

But I just can not believe how many fat women there are, especially ones with pretty faces. 

And that is especially disappointing when you are a single guy. All the good ones are taken, but there's plenty of fat girls.


It's bizarre to me that there's so many people who actually graduate college and have successful careers, but they can't manage their own weight.


----------



## Marielle

Unhappy2011 said:


> ...It's bizarre to me that there's so many people who actually graduate college and have successful careers, but they can't manage their own weight.


I don't get this either. It's always struck me as "bizarre" as well.

Unless there's some severe physical/emotional condition involved in preventing you from working out, why not invest some time into keeping fit? And what's with the "butch-eque" haircuts and "hiking-ready" outfits? I hope I'm not offending anyone here, but where I live, the heavyset women look a bit like men.


----------



## unbelievable

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a couple male friends who are of "normal" weight but they absolutely go crazy over heavy women. Whatever someone looks like, they look perfect to someone.


----------



## shy_guy

unbelievable said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a couple male friends who are of "normal" weight but they absolutely go crazy over heavy women. Whatever someone looks like, they look perfect to someone.


I've seen some of what you're talking about, too. It seems like when men are honest about it (and in a lot of situations, they just are) different guys have preferences for some pretty wide varieties of size/shape/skin color/weight ... The ones I've known who expressed it weren't always the most tactful in the way they described those preferences, but they certainly seemed to be comfortable with what they liked.


----------



## shy_guy

Kobo said:


> Susan2010
> TRBE
> LauraF
> 
> 
> It happens when your hurt drives every post. The posts reflect your hurt and anger. You have to be able to step outside of your own hurts in order to have a good discussion on a message board or in a relationship.


I thought I was having some decent discussion with LauraF. I found her viewpoint a bit ... unique in some areas, but when I was talking with her, she didn't really go over into what I considered to be abusive or hateful. Maybe I need to read this thread through and get a hint on what got her banned.


----------



## LovesHerMan

I did think she was rude and made too many personal remarks, but it did not seem to cross into banning territory. Sometimes the mods delete the remark that got the person banned.


----------



## alone_not_lonely

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Bigfoot resides in my forest.


I once saw TRBE and Big Foot near a stream crossing before they disappeared into the forest together... My camera broke into a million pieces as a result of a poltergeist attack before I could get the photo printed.


----------



## Marielle

unbelievable said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a couple male friends who are of "normal" weight but they absolutely go crazy over heavy women. Whatever someone looks like, they look perfect to someone.


Well, this is true. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

My 10 might be a 3 to someone else and vice versa.

You're right.


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Bigfoot resides in my forest.


maybe you need to 'trim the forest' a little if youre getting critters in there? 

myself, i enjoy going in the forest now and then.


----------



## DTO

lovesherman said:


> I did think she was rude and made too many personal remarks, but it did not seem to cross into banning territory. Sometimes the mods delete the remark that got the person banned.


Yeah, the one about there being two types of women - pretty ones who can afford to be frigid, and plain ones who had to be easy (including the sexually adventurous) to get a man - really took me aback. That comment had the potential to offend every women out there, and I'm sure some people were appalled.

ETA: If a poster wants to have impact, it's important to post in a manner that conveys information yet does not insult, or else you get tuned out.

Also, bulletin boards cost money to run. Often they are tied to a business effort (vs. supported by donations). This means they strive to attract advertisers and/or paying customers, which means they strive to appeal to a broad base, which means offending posts are bad for business.


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I thin the trees regularly; thanks for asking. lol Only one critter goes hiking there and he's a fine guide.
> 
> As long as you don't get lost in the wilderness; ensure you can always find your way out. Make certain your compass is in good working order, and don't be afraid to ask directions before you start. Shrubbery all starts to look the same after awhile.


i will ask directions when i find a new forest.
i was banned from the last one.
have to find a new one.


----------



## that_girl

No forest here. Just a slip n'slide.


----------



## sandc

that_girl said:


> No forest here. Just a slip n'slide.


Bravo!


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

that_girl said:


> No forest here. Just a slip n'slide.


lmao


----------



## Shaggy

Complexity said:


> The last thing a man notices on a woman is her shoes, so stop obsessing about them


Not true, I always check the shoes, they tell who she thinks she is, who she wants to be, and who she is. 

Total dead give away about the girl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> You can tell all this from a pair of shoes? :scratchhead:


The dude has skilz


----------



## unbelievable

When I stumble over the shoes my wife left in the middle of the living room floor, I deduce that she isn't the tidiest person in the world.


----------



## Kobo

Shaggy said:


> Not true, I always check the shoes, they tell who she thinks she is, who she wants to be, and who she is.
> 
> Total dead give away about the girl.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I notice shoes too. It makes or breaks their whole look.


----------



## Bottled Up

Kobo said:


> I notice shoes too. It makes or breaks their whole look.


Same. Not only that, but I'm a huge foot critic... even the hottest woman can have nasty feet and it would be a deal-breaker for me. I know, it's shallow... just can't help it though. 

Luckily my wife's feet are very cute to me


----------



## okeydokie

thats too funny


----------



## working_together

Unhappy2011 said:


> All women know this, but why so many can't manage it is beyond me.
> 
> Fat on a woman, or anybody actually, is the biggest turn off ever.
> 
> Why would anybody not want to look their best is beyond me.
> 
> But I just can not believe how many fat women there are, especially ones with pretty faces.
> 
> And that is especially disappointing when you are a single guy. All the good ones are taken, but there's plenty of fat girls.
> 
> 
> It's bizarre to me that there's so many people who actually graduate college and have successful careers, but they can't manage their own weight.


Take a trip to the Canadian city I live in......not too many fat women.


----------



## Unhappy2011

working_together said:


> Take a trip to the Canadian city I live in......not too many fat women.


Which city is that? Vancouver?


----------



## sinnister

Unhappy2011 said:


> All women know this, but why so many can't manage it is beyond me.
> 
> Fat on a woman, or anybody actually, is the biggest turn off ever.
> 
> Why would anybody not want to look their best is beyond me.
> 
> But I just can not believe how many fat women there are, especially ones with pretty faces.
> 
> And that is especially disappointing when you are a single guy. All the good ones are taken, but there's plenty of fat girls.
> 
> 
> It's bizarre to me that there's so many people who actually graduate college and have successful careers, but they can't manage their own weight.


I don't know man. This is another one of those that are more subjective than universal. I can't be attracted to skinny women. I just can't. I've tried. Abs and tight buns are just so masculin to me that I get queezy thinking about bedding that...like check for adams apple queezy.


----------



## Knoxvillekelly

Thank you to all the men who shared. I cried from laughing so hard.


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> If *I*......were *KING*..........of the *FORRRRRRRREEEEEEESSSSSSSTTTTT*...........
> 
> With a woof, uppy: and a woof uppy: and a royal growl, woof uppy:
> 
> If I, IF I, were *KING!!*


i have obviously been king of no forest i have been in.
or the slip and slides for that matter.


----------



## CH

I love shoes,

Black, high heels and nothing else on her.......

That look is just so damn sexy.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl:


----------



## mdill

Trenton said:


> Is it so wrong that despite reality and popular opinion I want a man who only thinks about me? Is it wrong that I want to be so stellar, good in bed and a fabulous wife/lover that it's impossible for my man to think of other women without immediately defaulting back to me? Come on now, I'm willing to put in the work and all!
> 
> OK, might be unrealistic, but tell me it is realistic, possible and implausible any other way...anyway.


It's not unrealistic..with the right man. When you find him, just let him know often you really, really want him. I think a woman who really wants her man is the sexiest creature on the planet to her man. 

Sadly, it seems many woman simply are not "into" their men. When men "get this" they are driven to find someone else.


----------



## Runs like Dog

The ugly truth? You're no fun to be around, rather painful actually.


----------



## feelingallalone

unbelievable said:


> a. "yes", we noticed that ****ty woman but we think she's hot.
> 
> b. "yes", those jeans do make your butt look big (but it's kinda hot).
> 
> c. "yes", if you died, we'd find someone else. We might even find someone interesting at the funeral home.
> 
> d. we truly don't care which curtains you pick out.
> 
> e. we don't hear 80% of what you say. Pretending to listen is our plan to get you in the sack.
> 
> f. We're embarrassingly simple to maintain. Keep us fed and laid and don't try to talk to us when the TVs on. Stroke our ego and you can have pretty much anything.



This might be true for some men, but NOT all men, not even the majority.....this simply does not speak to all or most men.


----------



## sandc

One of the ugly truths I've discovered about "us" is when I start noticing other women, stop being so into my wife, she gets more into me. When I start acting more caveman, she gets a lot more slvtty with me. Like the other night, I made a remark mark about the remarkably admirable posterior of a girl we had seen earlier in the evening. We were already in the bedroom and getting hot, this seemed to make her hotter. The more I talked about how hot the other women were, the more slvtty and freaky she got. It seems counter-intuitive to me but hey, whatever works.


----------



## Conrad

sandc said:


> One of the ugly truths I've discovered about "us" is when I start noticing other women, stop being so into my wife, she gets more into me. When I start acting more caveman, she gets a lot more slvtty with me. Like the other night, I made a remark mark about the remarkably admirable posterior of a girl we had seen earlier in the evening. We were already in the bedroom and getting hot, this seemed to make her hotter. The more I talked about how hot the other women were, the more slvtty and freaky she got. It seems counter-intuitive to me but hey, whatever works.


You've never noticed that women are competitive?


----------



## sandc

Conrad said:


> You've never noticed that women are competitive?


Well... 

Does NOW count?


----------



## occasionallybaffled

May have been said before, but: We are not as tough as we portray. We do get weighed down quite often. And hearing you say/brag "Nothing phases my man" & "Thank you for being strong and always supporting me"... causes our ego to hold us to that standard. I'll admit I have a problem with pride. Every once in a while, ask us how we are. If you ask how was work... we'll say it was fine or give a quick rant. But if you ask, "Hey, how are you doing today?" You might get a puzzled look and, I guarantee, a different answer.


----------



## Conrad

sandc said:


> Well...
> 
> Does NOW count?


OF COURSE!

It's never too late to grow.


----------



## DTO

occasionallybaffled said:


> May have been said before, but: We are not as tough as we portray. We do get weighed down quite often. And hearing you say/brag "Nothing phases my man" & "Thank you for being strong and always supporting me"... causes our ego to hold us to that standard. I'll admit I have a problem with pride. Every once in a while, ask us how we are. If you ask how was work... we'll say it was fine or give a quick rant. But if you ask, "Hey, how are you doing today?" You might get a puzzled look and, I guarantee, a different answer.


Hi Baffled,

I hear you; I used to do this too. It did not go on for long (fortunately), but I saw it was some pride but mostly fear of failure. I was driven less by internal perfectionism and more by expectations (real and imaginary) of others.

Echoing your post, my ex used to say that I did XYZ well, but only when done really well (and it was all talk and no give-back). From there, that service level became the standard and failure to meet it was met with disapproval.

I am not a slacker and have high standards for myself. But having excessive expectations disregards your humanity. Also, with diminishing returns, so you are putting tons of effort for minimal gains into something you may not even like.

The point is you ultimately need to make sure you are doing the rights things for the right reasons (genuine satisfaction, not some sort of compulsion or pressure). You must set some limits on what is a genuine good job fully meeting your responsibilities and what is excessive, and allocate your effort accordingly.


----------



## larry.gray

It is easy for men to bottle up emotions and not share. It is hard to open up and he won't do it if he doesn't trust you.

If he does open up and you cry about what he says, he's not going to do it again.


If he does open up and you get angry about what he says, he's not going to do it again.

When you do either it feels like you want to dictate how he's supposed to feel vs. wanting to know how he feels.


----------



## unbelievable

The Lifetime Channel might suggest women can't wait to get a weepy, sensitive, vulnerable, sensitive man. Nothing is farther from the truth. Such men portray insecurity and most women have enough of that without marrying more.


----------



## Blue Moon

unbelievable said:


> The Lifetime Channel might suggest women can't wait to get a weepy, sensitive, vulnerable, sensitive man. Nothing is farther from the truth. Such men portray insecurity and most women have enough of that without marrying more.


Yes, crying without a decent reason is a recipe for disaster. Honestly, trying to be politically correct in your relationship is in itself a horrible idea. You don't have to be a caveman, but trying to be the 2012 man the magazines would have you be is guaranteed failure.


----------



## waiwera

larry.gray said:


> It is easy for men to bottle up emotions and not share. It is hard to open up and he won't do it if he doesn't trust you.
> 
> If he does open up and you cry about what he says, he's not going to do it again.
> 
> 
> If he does open up and you get angry about what he says, he's not going to do it again.
> 
> When you do either it feels like you want to dictate how he's supposed to feel vs. wanting to know how he feels.


Larry.gray your post really resonated with me..

I've been dealing with honesty issues with my H over the past year ( and more...)

This came up in MC... my reaction to less than good news put him off telling me many things. Decided what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me. Just about ended our 20+ year marriage.

Boy it's tough to re-learn behavious and reactions... for both of us.


----------



## joe kidd

I can only speak for my self but....
1. I don't care what your mother thinks, never have never will.
2. Whatever clothes you buy the kids are fine. Really they are fine I don't want any input in the matter.
3. Yes all these channels on Dish are necessary, every freakin last one of them. ( except for Lifetime and the Oprah network)


----------



## larry.gray

waiwera said:


> Larry.gray your post really resonated with me..
> 
> I've been dealing with honesty issues with my H over the past year ( and more...)
> 
> This came up in MC... my reaction to less than good news put him off telling me many things. Decided what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me. Just about ended our 20+ year marriage.
> 
> Boy it's tough to re-learn behavious and reactions... for both of us.


The big thing for a guy is learning to separate sharing news vs. sharing feelings. Often the news can/should make you sad, angry etc. If you share both at once then they get conflated. Separating the delivery of the two helps.


----------



## larry.gray

joe kidd said:


> 3. Yes all these channels on Dish are necessary, every freakin last one of them. ( except for Lifetime and the Oprah network)


LOGO is very unnecessary too.


----------



## unbelievable

Believe what you want. Guys check out women like dogs check out steak. We're supposed to be attracted to the opposite sex. The survival of the species depends upon it. Did you think we gravitated to women for the fascinating conversation or because we share your devotion to Bed, Bath, and Beyond and the Lifetime Channel?


----------



## unbelievable

There are billions of people on this planet and half are male. I concede there must be a few that defy the "norm". More likely, this male friend of your's is trying to appear non-threatening to you by slipping on his sheep suit. I can pretend to be sensitive, saintly, and sexually non-threatening, too. Whatever gets Pooh to the honeypot.


----------



## unbelievable

He's got values and that's great. That doesn't mean he isn't sexually attracted to women or that he's blind. I assume he intends to marry a female at some point?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

enoughisenough said:


> Of course. He'd really like to meet someone. His concern isn't that he finds some women attractive but that he doesn't think in lustful terms or feel the need to check women out like the world seems to think he should be doing. He's not particularly occupied with sex mentally. I've just told him to accept who he is and there is nothing wrong with being the way he is. I don't think it means he is defective, as he put it.


Low testosterone.


----------



## Conrad

enoughisenough said:


> Why is this guy I know worried because he doesn't actively think about sex all the time and have an interest in checking out women like he keeps hearing he is 'supposed to'? He even said, "Maybe something is wrong with me". Society tells men they are supposed to be a certain way but not all are. I'm not denying the majority may well be but sending men a message that this is how they are meant to be can cause those that aren't distress.
> 
> Or is it like this thing where women are supposed to be maternal and the minority that aren't are made to feel like there is something wrong with them when there isn't, they are just different?


Have you ever read about how "nice guys" try to convince women they aren't "really" like other men?

Oldest trick in the book.

Oldest card in the deck.


----------



## unbelievable

"Baa Baa" No, I'm not a wolf. I'm just a sheep. Come back to my place and I'll give you some wool.


----------



## Blue Moon

Conrad said:


> Have you ever read about how "nice guys" try to convince women they aren't "really" like other men?
> 
> Oldest trick in the book.
> 
> Oldest card in the deck.


Exactly. "I'm one of the good ones." Instead of raging in with war paint and wrestling a bear for the kill, he's choosing to be a bunny petter, showing his non-threatening side to gain trust and go in for the kill later.

Not all guys are the meathead type, but come on now... We all love women. We all love sex. We all get urges when we think about hot women. No shame in it.


----------



## Conrad

Blue Moon,

If only I had it to do over again.....

I'd use all the hackneyed cliches and other games I discarded thinking there's no way anyone would fall for that.

Apparently, they will - and they DO.


----------



## livnlearn

each of you trying to prove your manliness by stressing how sexually driven you are......

you're clueless.....it's sort of embarrassing


----------



## Conrad

livnlearn said:


> each of you trying to prove your manliness by stressing how sexually driven you are......
> 
> you're clueless.....it's sort of embarrassing


As if you have some insight here?

Please share what it's like to be male.


----------



## livnlearn

Conrad said:


> As if you have some insight here?
> 
> Please share what it's like to be male.


sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I meant you are clueless as to what makes a real man, and one who is attractive to the opposite sex. hint: it has nothing to do with how virile you try to make the world believe you are.


----------



## Conrad

livnlearn said:


> sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I meant you are clueless as to what makes a real man...one who is attractive to the opposite sex. hint: it has nothing to do with how virile you try to make the world believe you are.


And preachy sanctimonious women don't turn many of the opposite sex on either.


----------



## livnlearn

Conrad said:


> And preachy sanctimonious women don't turn many of the opposite sex on either.


certainly not those who act like teenage boys in a locker room. and I'm perfectly okay with that.:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> I don't believe men universally look at other women. I think there are men who use their maleness as an excuse to do so. The effect of this myth is that you get men who worry that there is something wrong with them because they aren't thinking of sex every hour of the day or looking at women. Not fair to cause self-doubt in those guys.


They would have less self doubt if they got their T levels adjusted. Confidence in a man is important but he owns that one himself. You carry your own watter in life.

Some women do like effeminate men. No argument their. There is a range of attractiveness. Most heterosexual men are stimulated by women. Why is this so hard to believe. I guess then this is somehow not PC. After all men are exactly the same as women. It must be that way.


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> No, he's for real. He was genuinely concerned. And I know he has turned down sex on offer because he's planning to wait for marriage.


He needs to man up and not worry about what other people say. This is just another symptom. He sounds over the top Beta at the least. Otherwise he would not complain about such a thing.


----------



## Blue Moon

livnlearn said:


> sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I meant you are clueless as to what makes a real man, and one who is attractive to the opposite sex. hint: it has nothing to do with how virile you try to make the world believe you are.


If this were Plentyoffish.com I could see your point, but I don't think any of us in the thread are showing off for the women posters to appear "attractive to the opposite sex". 

Can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I damn sure don't post anything on this site to get a pat on the head from anyone to crown me worthy of her admiration.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Low testosterone.


Seriously. Him complaining about this is another indicator. A confident man would not be this way. I am not being snide. It sounds like low T.


----------



## Conrad

Blue Moon said:


> If this were Plentyoffish.com I could see your point, but I don't think any of us in the thread are showing off for the women posters to appear "attractive to the opposite sex".
> 
> Can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I damn sure don't post anything on this site to get a pat on the head from anyone to crown me worthy of her admiration.


Crap!

I was just really digging that "like" you threw my way.

Guess I have to get over myself.


----------



## Blue Moon

And to be clear, once again, speaking for only myself, but I'm adamant in my responses because I don't want anybody, man or woman, to walk around naive.

Statements like this:

"I don't believe men universally look at other women."

Make me want to set the record straight not for myself, but so that another person doesn't end up disappointed or hurt down the line because they received a sugarcoated, feminized version of what men truly are. It's similar to the threads where women catch their husbands watching p*rn and are crushed because they too thought they had "One of the good ones."

I don't think we're pigs or disgusting for what we are, and want to be able to have our tendencies expressed for what they are, and not under the pretense that the ones that are this way are pigs, but the ones who don't like that kind of stuff are the good ones. Because more often than not, that line of thinking has blindsided many a woman when she learns that she's been dealing with a pig in sheep's clothing.


----------



## Entropy3000

livnlearn said:


> each of you trying to prove your manliness by stressing how sexually driven you are......
> 
> you're clueless.....it's sort of embarrassing


I think being men we can speak for ourselves on this one. The thread is called ugly truths.

Men have testosterone. This influences the man to be interested in women. It does not mean that the brain cannot control these urges but it means that a normal healthy male is sexually stimulated by a normal healthy female.

Some men are very passive. Have low confidence and tend to show some level of female traits. These folks often have low testosterone or a repressed social upbringing that teaches them that sex is bad and dirty.
These things impact their thinking and their behavior. Other are just submissive in nature. Still other are liars and try to manipulate women by telling them what they want to hear.

Men with low T have a lower sex drive. Having a good T level is what gives men their male characteristics.

This is biology. So why penalize an honest man with high drive and one who chooses to be faithful. They would seem to have high character. A guy who is not intereseted in women is never tempted. A man should defend himself. Anything else is pathetic.


----------



## Blue Moon

Conrad said:


> Crap!
> 
> I was just really digging that "like" you threw my way.
> 
> Guess I have to get over myself.


:rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> I can assure you that this guy has no interest in me to need to convince me he is a nice guy. His testosterone is normal. In this as well as other areas, everyone has their own normal I'm sure even it is not he most common position. There are plenty of things women are told they like or do as well that doesn't hold for everyone of them too.


What are his T levels? How in the world would you know what a man's T level is?

Not being maliscious but maybe he is not heterosexual.


----------



## Entropy3000

Blue Moon said:


> If this were Plentyoffish.com I could see your point, but I don't think any of us in the thread are showing off for the women posters to appear "attractive to the opposite sex".
> 
> Can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I damn sure don't post anything on this site to get a pat on the head from anyone to crown me worthy of her admiration.


I am happily married. This is a forum to discuss marriage. This thread was asking for the truth.

You got the truth.


----------



## Entropy3000

Blue Moon said:


> And to be clear, once again, speaking for only myself, but I'm adamant in my responses because I don't want anybody, man or woman, to walk around naive.
> 
> Statements like this:
> 
> "I don't believe men universally look at other women."
> 
> Make me want to set the record straight not for myself, but so that another person doesn't end up disappointed or hurt down the line because they received a sugarcoated, feminized version of what men truly are. It's similar to the threads where women catch their husbands watching p*rn and are crushed because they too thought they had "One of the good ones."
> 
> I don't think we're pigs or disgusting for what we are, and want to be able to have our tendencies expressed for what they are, and not under the pretense that the ones that are this way are pigs, but the ones who don't like that kind of stuff are the good ones. Because more often than not, that line of thinking has blindsided many a woman when she learns that she's been dealing with a pig in sheep's clothing.


This is missionary work. Tough love.


----------



## Conrad

Entropy3000 said:


> I am happily married. This is a forum to discuss marriage. This thread was asking for the truth.
> 
> You got the truth.


No matter how much you wish to deny it.


----------



## AFEH

Conrad said:


> And preachy sanctimonious women don't turn many of the opposite sex on either.


LOL. I just don’t get them. Nothing better to do with their lives than come into a forum and beat up on the men. Just how very sad is that?


----------



## AFEH

enoughisenough said:


> Cos I suggested he get his T levels checked? And he did. It's a close male relative so we do talk this intimately. Yes, he's hetero.
> 
> Now, changing focus to my husband, he doesn't look very often but he sure hates it when other men check me out. I don't check out men at all *but sure do fantasize about a different kind of man in the bedroom and he knows it*. So men and women have their own things.


Yuk!


----------



## Blue Moon

enoughisenough said:


> Now, changing focus to my husband, he doesn't look very often but he sure hates it when other men check me out. I don't check out men at all but sure do fantasize about a different kind of man in the bedroom and he knows it. So men and women have their own things.


It's only normal for your husband to look, just like it's only normal for you to fantasize. That's my only point in this. If you fantasize about men, don't you think plenty of men look and do the same? And if that's human nature, wouldn't the guys who _don't_ do that be the exception rather than the norm?


----------



## Entropy3000

Conrad said:


> No matter how much you wish to deny it.


I think they are being very agressive. I am feeling a bit intimidated.

There are probably some women who do not like attention. I don't notice them though.


----------



## Conrad

AFEH said:


> LOL. I just don’t get them. Nothing better to do with their lives than come into a forum and beat up on the men. Just how very sad is that?


Perhaps they don't have anyone to kick around at home anymore.


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> Cos I suggested he get his T levels checked? And he did. It's a close male relative so we do talk this intimately. Yes, he's hetero.
> 
> Now, changing focus to my husband, he doesn't look very often but he sure hates it when other men check me out. I don't check out men at all but sure do fantasize about a different kind of man in the bedroom and he knows it. So men and women have their own things.


So you married a more typical man then.

You are also baiting us to ask about what you fantasize about, but I will leave that to the others to do.

That said your hubby knows he is not your fantasy. Bummer for him. That would really suck. Of course maybe he role plays in the bedroom with you idunno.


----------



## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> LOL. I just don’t get them. Nothing better to do with their lives than come into a forum and beat up on the men. Just how very sad is that?


They have beaten their men into submission to the point they cannot fight back. So they have to come here. Fresh meat.


----------



## MominMayberry

Conrad said:


> As if you have some insight here?
> 
> Please share what it's like to be male.


Share what it like to be woman as you always tell what we want as women. Please do.


----------



## Conrad

MominMayberry said:


> Share what it like to be woman as you always tell what we want as women. Please do.


Refresh my memory.


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> No, it's not like that at all. My husband is strictly a missionary guy, no imagination. Don't have to go very far from that to fantasize. I haven't told him this, he worked it out. I'm quite content with my husband and when I fantasize I see his face. I don't see that as a problem. It's nothing unattainable. He can choose to step it up.
> 
> As for the question why women are here - a man's perspective is interesting. And every now and then I might get ideas for my own marriage.
> 
> Men's visual nature is a good thing. I mean - we have to keep up appearances so that new outfit is a must. ;-)


Ok so that fantasy is worth making into reality.


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> Share what it like to be woman as you always tell what we want as women. Please do.


Everything I know about women:

'Summer's Eve' Feminine Hygiene [01] TV commercial - 1981 - YouTube

Many men play at being a disposable d0uche. Some aspire to it but few attain it with any real panache.


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> I've given up on that one.


----------



## Conrad

enoughisenough said:


> Don't you see that saying 'everything I know about women' groups them and assumes they are all the same? I'm sure men don't like blanket statements about themselves either (even if there is a norm). I don't know - maybe men fall on a bell curve or something with some noticing women more than others.


Aren't we the ones trying to clue you in (against your will) on what men are about?

As a rule, we don't mind blanket statements - as long as they have some footing in the truth.


----------



## Browncoat

enoughisenough said:


> Don't you see that saying 'everything I know about women' groups them and assumes they are all the same? I'm sure men don't like blanket statements about themselves either (even if there is a norm). I don't know - maybe men fall on a bell curve or something with some noticing women more than others.


Did you just suggest you know everything about 'everything I know about women' groups. Maybe some are different, shouldn't lump them together. 

Sorry I know that's really bad of me, but I couldn't help point out the irony of that statement.


----------



## Entropy3000

enoughisenough said:


> Don't you see that saying 'everything I know about women' groups them and assumes they are all the same? I'm sure men don't like blanket statements about themselves either (even if there is a norm). I don't know - maybe men fall on a bell curve or something with some noticing women more than others.


LOL. 

Indeed the bellcurve IS the answer for many things that distribute in nature. The value of _*e*_ is in there somewhere ...

I hate absolutes but I do find the 80 / 20 rule helpful.

In the real world we have to deal with things in a more pragmatic way. Theoretical stuff is fine and dandy. I use the terms most and some quite often. Most heterosexual men are stimulated by women. That is a reasonable statement without worrying about grouping. 

What is fear of grouping? That seems like some sort of social anxiety.


----------



## VostroDH

What's a wife to do when she wants sex, tries to have it but the husband doesn't respond physically?


----------



## Browncoat

VostroDH said:


> What's a wife to do when she wants sex, tries to have it but the husband doesn't respond physically?


Pull a reverse cave-man... let's call it the cave-woman. Smack him over the head with a club and drag him to bed. Remember that viagra is a cave-women's best friend*.

* don't want imply all of any group do anything across the board, there are clearly some rebel cave-women who use Cialis or some other product.


----------



## Entropy3000

This thread has taken an ugly turn ... LOL.

I think I am going to take care of some of my own wife's needs ....


----------



## livnlearn

Entropy3000 said:


> I am happily married. This is a forum to discuss marriage. This thread was asking for the truth.
> 
> You got the truth.


I don't have a problem with the truth at all, I just think there are better ways to express it than a few did here . I find your responses, here and elsewhere, to be honest and forthright, yet respectful (though your comment about "fresh meat" is questionable )...and thus I have learned a lot about men..in a positive way. 

a handful just lend to the stereotype "men are pigs" in trying to make the exact same point.

as for the man bashing comment..that is the typical response to being challenged. sometimes people just disagree....


----------



## VostroDH

enoughisenough and browncoat--been there, done that (he won't take anything).


----------



## Browncoat

OK back to being serious. Have you had a doctor and a therapist have rule out physiological and psychological causes?

If so, perhaps offer to simple exchange full body messages (or even just back rubs). Sometimes just getting close to the woman you love (especially if there is some nudity) can lead to some fun times.


----------



## Entropy3000

livnlearn said:


> I don't have a problem with the truth at all, I just think there are better ways to express it than a few did here . I find your responses, here and elsewhere, to be honest and forthright, yet respectful (though your comment about "fresh meat" is questionable )...and thus I have learned a lot about men..in a positive way.
> 
> a handful just lend to the stereotype "men are pigs" in trying to make the exact same point.
> 
> as for the man bashing comment..that is the typical response to being challenged. sometimes people just disagree....


Sigh. .... ok

I think men are compelled to pursue women. It is the natural order of things. A wonderful thing much of the time. A bellcurve is indeed a good way to look at things in my opinion. We have all sorts of traits that sometimes are in harmony and sometimes at war with each other and who can tell which is which? I think these are referred to as furies. As someone has stated here the one that survives is the one that is fed.

Men can choose to be pigs. Many men discust me in their choices in life. But good quality men, men of substance, have these same base instincts. They usually choose to handle them wisely. No one is perfect. I am very attracted to women. I would not have it any other way. I do not let that disrespect my wife. If anything, it is my wife that will point someone out to me. Not a test. More in the way of a tease. She knows how I feel about her. I notice good looking women. I do not dwell on them. I know better. 

I can also care for a woman for who she is as a friend. However, there is always a sexual element to this. Denying it is the bad choice IMO. Understanding it for what it is one deals with it appropriately. Are there men that have negligable feelings in this area ... I suppose so. I think these are a small percentage. I feel many women think it is a large percentage.

I agree that a man who claims he does not notice an attractive woman is either in denial, has low T / low self esteem or is in a very small minority of men. Or is manipulating. Just my opinion of being a man and being around other men.

The hormones that can make a man a pig are the same hormones that can help him to do great things. The difference is in character and the choices they make. Good men are good because they can be tempted and do the right thing.

I like being a man who likes women.  I love my wife. I would never trust another man not her relative with her more than is necessary. I trust her completely. But I think women have tunnel vision sometimes.


----------



## MominMayberry

Conrad said:


> Refresh my memory.


My apology. I get confused with you and a man called Entrophy. He thinks he answers for women and think he is expert at game like he shoots women out of trees. Very sorry.


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> My apology. I get confused with you and a man called Entrophy. He thinks he answers for women and think he is expert at game like he shoots women out of trees. Very sorry.


Disrespectful? Much? I think so. 

Haters gotta hate. 

Get over it Mom. Go pick on the men who mistreat and disrespect their wives and other women. I love my wife and have raised two wonderful daughters. Your disdain is misplaced with me. Stop the anger. It will eat you alive. Stop feeding it.

Just to set the record straight, I have rarely been a pursuer or a predator. Maybe that was my upbringing or low T levels, idunno. The women in my life have generally made the agressive moves on me, which suits me fine. It they were in trees they were the ones setting the traps for me. Maybe they recognized quality. I can only hope.


----------



## livnlearn

I agree with you 100% on all counts in your response to me up above Entropy. My response was only a reaction to posts like this: 



unbelievable said:


> .... More likely, this male friend of your's is trying to appear non-threatening to you by slipping on his sheep suit. I can pretend to be sensitive, saintly, and sexually non-threatening, too. Whatever gets Pooh to the honeypot.


 and some others that were going back and forth at that time in the thread.

While I thank you for taking the time to clarify even further your position..even requiring a "sigh" to motivate yourself , how I responded to those posters was not even close to how I feel about men in general.

The key males in my life are all wonderful. My dad and father-in-law have both been happily and faithfully married for 50+ years each..and my husband is an awesome, totally good guy who never gives me any reason to doubt his love for me...ever. and yeah...I KNOW he notices other women...NOT an issue with me. 

PHEW...I guess this will teach me to keep my mouth shut :lol:


----------



## Entropy3000

livnlearn said:


> I agree with you 100% on all counts in your response to me up above Entropy. My response was only a reaction to posts like this:
> 
> and some others that were going back and forth at that time in the thread.
> 
> While I thank you for taking the time to clarify even further your position..even requiring a "sigh" to motivate yourself , how I responded to those posters was not even close to how I feel about men in general.
> 
> The key males in my life are all wonderful. My dad and father-in-law have both been happily and faithfully married for 50+ years each..and my husband is an awesome, totally good guy who never gives me any reason to doubt his love for me...ever. and yeah...I KNOW he notices other women...NOT an issue with me.
> 
> PHEW...I guess this will teach me to keep my mouth shut :lol:


Peace.


----------



## AFEH

enoughisenough said:


> No, it's not like that at all. My husband is strictly a missionary guy, no imagination. Don't have to go very far from that to fantasize. I haven't told him this, he worked it out. I'm quite content with my husband and when I fantasize I see his face. I don't see that as a problem. It's nothing unattainable. He can choose to step it up.
> 
> As for the question why women are here - a man's perspective is interesting. And every now and then I might get ideas for my own marriage.
> 
> Men's visual nature is a good thing. I mean - we have to keep up appearances so that new outfit is a must. ;-)


Sounds like your H is exceedingly passive? Must be really quite boring and exceedingly frustrating. Thank goodness for our imagination! There’s a great book called Supersex, puts aside all crazy notions that thinking of another is somehow abusive and dysfunctional. Sometime in long term marriages we need all the help we can get!!!

If you haven’t tried it get yourself a video camera and tripod, don’t need to be expensive at all, and video yourselves together. I did this with my wife, she really came alive!


----------



## discouraged1

mdill said:


> It's not unrealistic..with the right man. When you find him, just let him know often you really, really want him. I think a woman who really wants her man is the sexiest creature on the planet to her man.
> 
> Sadly, it seems many woman simply are not "into" their men. When men "get this" they are driven to find someone else.


:iagree:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

livnlearn said:


> each of you trying to prove your manliness by stressing how sexually driven you are......
> 
> you're clueless.....it's sort of embarrassing


lol uh... no actually... being male is really sexual. Hell I wish I could turn it off sometimes.

You're in a meeting and you can't get your mind off removing the skirt from the hottie on the other side of the table. You have a hard time following the meeting.

Your head snaps around to get a good look at every sexy female jogger in spandex.

You fixate on the lips of that cute barista at starbucks.

Its certainly not brag worthy. Every one of my friends has a "I almost wrecked my car" story of the time he let his gaze linger just a little too long while driving.

Its virtually non-stop and reflexive, and every guy I know is just like this. Its clueless to pretend we're all sexual posturing on an anonymous internet forum.


----------



## AFEH

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> lol uh... no actually... being male is really sexual. Hell I wish I could turn it off sometimes.
> 
> *You're in a meeting and you can't get your mind off removing the skirt from the hottie on the other side of the table. *You have a hard time following the meeting.
> 
> Your head snaps around to get a good look at every sexy female jogger in spandex.
> 
> You fixate on the lips of that cute barista at starbucks.
> 
> Its certainly not brag worthy. Every one of my friends has a "I almost wrecked my car" story of the time he let his gaze linger just a little too long while driving.
> 
> Its virtually non-stop and reflexive, and every guy I know is just like this. Its clueless to pretend we're all sexual posturing on an anonymous internet forum.


In my opinion that’s way over the top. Until you’ve learnt to control those impulses you will always be but a slave to the temptations in front of you and it will cost you dear in the long run.

Impulse control is one of the hallmarks of a wise and mature person. And a safe person to be around.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

AFEH said:


> In my opinion that’s way over the top. Until you’ve learnt to control those impulses you will always be but a slave to the temptations in front of you and it will cost you dear in the long run.
> 
> Impulse control is one of the hallmarks of a wise and mature person. And a safe person to be around.


I've never made a move on a woman at work. But I'm telling you: we have sexual thoughts about our attractive co-workers. Its just a fact.

A significant number of us pursue those attractions (two of my guy friends have... one is still dating the girl, who ended up finding another job so she could date him in the open), but most of us let fantasies stay fantasies, or getting the girl is just an unrealistic pipe dream.


----------



## AFEH

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've never made a move on a woman at work. But I'm telling you: we have sexual thoughts about our attractive co-workers. Its just a fact.
> 
> A significant number of us pursue those attractions (two of my guy friends have... one is still dating the girl, who ended up finding another job so she could date him in the open), but most of us let fantasies stay fantasies, or getting the girl is just an unrealistic pipe dream.


Just imagine how uncomfortable it is for the woman in the meeting with you across the table. She can clearly see and feel by your facial expressions and other body language that your attention is totally on her and nothing else that’s going on in the meeting.


Now she’s trapped. In that there’s not a thing she can do about it so she does her best to defocus on you so she can focus entirely on her job at hand.


And now think on everyone else in that meeting right there with you. If you don’t know that every other woman in the room knows exactly what’s going through your mind then you are most certainly mistaken. And you are again mistaken if they don’t talk about that lecher behind your back.

And if your manager’s a male and has any sense of awareness he’ll too know exactly what’s going on inside of you. Most especially when he’s especially sought your attention and hasn’t got it because your gawping across the table.


----------



## larry.gray

I remember a few years back when we had a large division meeting at work. The manager in charge of about 50 engineers was this aggressive, power suit wearing feminist. We had one woman engineer, the rest all men. 

We had a last minute all hands meeting just before 5. The one woman had already changed into a VERY short red dress that she was going to surprise her husband with when she took him out for dinner on his birthday.

The entire meeting the red dress gal was trying to grow about 4 more inches of dress by alternately pulling it down over her legs and then trying to pull the top up. What made it worse was that we were all in a giant room with tables arraigned in a circle so many could see her front both above and below the table.

Being in a room with nearly 50 guys, and most of them over 40. She was about 25. You could tell where all of the attention was. By the time it was over both women were red faced for very different reasons. I really felt bad for T, she normally dressed conservatively, just caught off guard by circumstances.


----------



## AFEH

A person’s world can become a totally different place once they realise and accept that so very much is communicated without a word ever being spoken.

But to try and see the body language in the same way we hear the spoken word typically takes serious effort and focus from a man but appears so easy for a woman to do. And then once we’ve seen the body language we need to somehow interpret its meaning, much like we do when we hear the spoken word.

Due to their brains multitasking capabilities women are far more capable in these things, it seems as though they are born with these capabilities whereas a man may spend a lifetime trying to gain some form of competence in them such is the single tasked nature of our brains setup.

But sometimes it’s enough to know that within facial expressions, body movements over time for example where feet are pointing or perhaps more importantly who they’re pointing at, there are words, sentences and whole paragraphs with never a word spoken.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

AFEH said:


> Just imagine how uncomfortable it is for the woman in the meeting with you across the table. She can clearly see and feel by your facial expressions and other body language that your attention is totally on her and nothing else that’s going on in the meeting.
> 
> Now she’s trapped. In that there’s not a thing she can do about it so she does her best to defocus on you so she can focus entirely on her job at hand.
> 
> And now think on everyone else in that meeting right there with you. If you don’t know that every other woman in the room knows exactly what’s going through your mind then you are most certainly mistaken. And you are again mistaken if they don’t talk about that lecher behind your back.
> 
> And if your manager’s a male and has any sense of awareness he’ll too know exactly what’s going on inside of you. Most especially when he’s especially sought your attention and hasn’t got it because your gawping across the table.


I think you're blowing this out of proportion. The guy who gets noticed for checking someone out at work is a guy that WANTED to get noticed, especially something ongoing. He's flirting. If she gives him the cold shoulder or ignores him and he continues or is too overt about it he's a douche and the harrassment should be addressed. Normally, you'd look and try to focus the rest of the meeting... but you still steal every glance you can get without being obvious about it.

Most of the time, we're thinking it, and women truly no more aware of it than we are aware of their thoughts. Its just coincidence that they get it right whenever they decide to call us on it, either because some guy was really being an overt douche, or by default... because we're all usually checking everyone out anyway. I'm sure there's a bell curve to this, but I'd wager most men fall in the big fat part of the curve labelled "checking everyone out most of the time". I often wonder if age plays a factor and I expected as I got out of my 20s things would mellow out... it certainly hasn't for me, and from what I hear, anyone I know.

There's really nowhere I go that I don't identify every good looking woman within eyesight almost immediately, and from what I gather, that's not peculiar to me. Guys I know even scan the nearby cars at stoplights, or occassionally adjust speed to get a better look at the face of that girl with the pretty hair... oops... not cute... nevermind, pass.


----------



## Marielle

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I think you're blowing this out of proportion. The guy who gets noticed for checking someone out at work is a guy that WANTED to get noticed, especially something ongoing. He's flirting. If she gives him the cold shoulder or ignores him and he continues or is too overt about it he's a douche and the harrassment should be addressed. Normally, you'd look and try to focus the rest of the meeting... but you still steal every glance you can get without being obvious about it.
> 
> Most of the time, we're thinking it, and women truly no more aware of it than we are aware of their thoughts. Its just coincidence that they get it right whenever they decide to call us on it, either because some guy was really being an overt douche, or by default... because we're all usually checking everyone out anyway. I'm sure there's a bell curve to this, but I'd wager most men fall in the big fat part of the curve labelled "checking everyone out most of the time". I often wonder if age plays a factor and I expected as I got out of my 20s things would mellow out... it certainly hasn't for me, and from what I hear, anyone I know.
> 
> *There's really nowhere I go that I don't identify every good looking woman within eyesight almost immediately, and from what I gather, that's not peculiar to me. Guys I know even scan the nearby cars at stoplights, or occassionally adjust speed to get a better look at the face of that girl with the pretty hair... oops... not cute... nevermind, pass.*



Yes. And many of us women do the same...we glance and "ogle" and "_nevermind, pass,_" too. We're not helpless creatures that cower in the corner just because men are looking and giving off "vibes." You guys would blush if you heard the conversations at a girl's night-out/post-meeting-analysis-meetings.

We are very visual (men more, but women too), and there's nothing wrong with it as long as nothing offensive is being said or stalking is involved. As far as I'm concerned it's all just natural man/woman dynamics. C'est la vie...


----------



## Bobby5000

Arranging some subtle competition might be effective. That said, commenting about another woman would be counter-productive and annoying for most women. For example, when a woman finds out her man had looked at porn, it creates doubts about her self-image, and lessens her desire. It doesn't create a sudden desire to equal or exceed what she perceived the other woman doing. 





sandc said:


> One of the ugly truths I've discovered about "us" is when I start noticing other women, stop being so into my wife, she gets more into me. When I start acting more caveman, she gets a lot more slvtty with me. Like the other night, I made a remark mark about the remarkably admirable posterior of a girl we had seen earlier in the evening. We were already in the bedroom and getting hot, this seemed to make her hotter. The more I talked about how hot the other women were, the more slvtty and freaky she got. It seems counter-intuitive to me but hey, whatever works.


----------



## larry.gray

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I think you're blowing this out of proportion. The guy who gets noticed for checking someone out at work is a guy that WANTED to get noticed, especially something ongoing. He's flirting. If she gives him the cold shoulder or ignores him and he continues or is too overt about it he's a douche and the harrassment should be addressed. Normally, you'd look and try to focus the rest of the meeting... but you still steal every glance you can get without being obvious about it.


It's crap to call looking "harassment" when the woman dresses in a revealing fashion. 

They dress to draw attention. If a guy notices, they are getting what they want. Not from the guy they want to look, but they do want a some guys to look. 

I've noticed this is a very American thing. You go elsewhere and women know that if they dress revealing, they will be ogled.


----------



## AFEH

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> *I think you're blowing this out of proportion.* The guy who gets noticed for checking someone out at work is a guy that WANTED to get noticed, especially something ongoing. He's flirting. If she gives him the cold shoulder or ignores him and he continues or is too overt about it he's a douche and the harrassment should be addressed. Normally, you'd look and try to focus the rest of the meeting... but you still steal every glance you can get without being obvious about it.
> 
> Most of the time, we're thinking it, and women truly no more aware of it than we are aware of their thoughts. Its just coincidence that they get it right whenever they decide to call us on it, either because some guy was really being an overt douche, or by default... because we're all usually checking everyone out anyway. I'm sure there's a bell curve to this, but I'd wager most men fall in the big fat part of the curve labelled "checking everyone out most of the time". I often wonder if age plays a factor and I expected as I got out of my 20s things would mellow out... it certainly hasn't for me, and from what I hear, anyone I know.
> 
> There's really nowhere I go that I don't identify every good looking woman within eyesight almost immediately, and from what I gather, that's not peculiar to me. Guys I know even scan the nearby cars at stoplights, or occassionally adjust speed to get a better look at the face of that girl with the pretty hair... oops... not cute... nevermind, pass.


That was deliberate! Just trying to get you to see yourself. You’d do well to read Awareness (Anthony de Mello) and body language books by Pease International - Body Language | Relationship Advice.


Body language has words, sentences and paragraphs without a word being spoken!

And it’s not all in the actual body language that we see. It’s in what we don’t see as well. Not looking at the screen or speaker during a presentation … speaks volumes as much as you looking directly at the woman opposite you.

Eyes linger on the woman opposite you for more than THREE seconds? That’s staring! Got a stupid smile and look on your face? That’s leering!


----------



## RandomDude

LauraF said:


> You'er anonymous on here, and nobody's gonna scream at you for saying it.
> 
> So give us some of the ugliest truths about what women don't/should know about men.
> 
> This isn't meant to make men look bad. There are things, some things women just dont know about men. What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?



Women generally put me into a certain category; "bad ass mofo" or "player"
They f--k me, use me, then break me heart and use me as a "confidence" booster as I've always been a hot and confident guy

That was before I met my wife...

But it troubles me why women get so insecure around good-looking blokes, they either worship or use us


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

larry.gray said:


> It's crap to call looking "harassment" when the woman dresses in a revealing fashion.
> 
> They dress to draw attention. If a guy notices, they are getting what they want. Not from the guy they want to look, but they do want a some guys to look.
> 
> I've noticed this is a very American thing. You go elsewhere and women know that if they dress revealing, they will be ogled.


I don't think harassment has anything to do with what she wears, nor do I think looking is harassment. Staring maybe. Being overt and brash about it.

Women wearing something sexy isn't an invitation for all men to stare or be obnoxious. They don't always want the attention. A lot of women dress that way because it makes them feel good; attractive; confident. That doesn't mean she wanted to get the attention of x guy with the rape eyes. It doesn't give guys the right to be dbags.

We're all gonna look, we're gonna have dirty thoughts, but I think tact plays and important role.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

AFEH said:


> That was deliberate! Just trying to get you to see yourself.


You've assumed too much. I didn't say staring or being overt was in anyway acceptable. But it doesn't change the fact that you'll look at her, think about her, and take every opportunity to get another glance.


----------



## morituri

You said you wanted the ugly truth :rofl:


----------



## Browncoat

morituri said:


> You said you wanted the ugly truth :rofl:


I'll give that woman one thing, she sure seems confident and happy.


----------



## livnlearn

Browncoat said:


> I'll give that woman one thing, she sure seems confident and happy.


you've proven it again browncoat...somehow, sometimes despite all odds, you always manage to find something nice to say. :lol:


----------



## morituri

Browncoat said:


> I'll give that woman one thing, she sure seems confident and happy.


Do we know for certain she actually is a woman?


----------



## nice777guy

morituri said:


> You said you wanted the ugly truth :rofl:


Ummm - I don't say this often - but I think I'll pass on your NSA BJ offer!


----------



## Feisty53

So what am I doing wrong? I tell my husband what I need, exactly how to go about it. I try to set him up to win ie. I need you to give me a hug at least once a day. He doesn't do it because he says I am ordering him. He gets me flowers instead. I try to initiate sex. it turns him off. So no sex is my fault. He looks at a hot woman walking by, I say. yep she's a hottie alright.. I have no problem with that. it is what guys do. I encourage him to go hang with the guys once in a while. I know ogling does not constitute cheating. I ask his opinion, and sometimes even take his advice, if he offers it (which is rare).
Guys what am I doing so wrong that my husband doesn't want me in bed? I am 115lbs, try to stay in decent shape, I don't nag, I try to be interesting.. do nice girls finish last?


----------



## nice777guy

Is he masturbating? Is he sexual in other ways?


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## endlessgrief

This thread is hilarious and so true! One thing I keep seeing is that men won't/can't listen to us when the TV is on. I must wait until a commercial break to speak to my husband. I fcucking HATE it with a passion, but there is nothing I can go. 

My husband always said that my male friends who I viewed as "brothers" just wanted to get in my pants. I told him he was full of sh!t but was proven wrong. WAY WRONG!!!!

I think women think men view the world the way WE view the world and you are right, men are not that complicated. Chris Rock said it best when he said all he wants from his wife is SILENCE, SEX, and the BIGGEST PIECE OF CHICKEN at dinner.


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## nader

My love language is blowjobs.


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## nice777guy

Yes - the big piece of chicken!!!


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## arbitrator

We will sometimes placate you to get you to calm down when you are overly excited.

For those of us who have single track minds, we hate to be interrupted while in the middle of doing something, no matter how trivial you may think that it is.

Conversely, we never want to be interrupted while making love!


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## okeydokie

endlessgrief said:


> One thing I keep seeing is that men won't/can't listen to us when the TV is on. I must wait until a commercial break to speak to my husband. I fcucking HATE it with a passion, but there is nothing I can go.


this is one of the things we joke about alot in my house. my wife has NO problem starting up a conversation with me when i am watching something on TV i want to hear. conversely, if american idol or NCIS is on and i breath i get shsshed. so now i make a game of it, when she interrupts me i wait patiently until she is ingrossed in her show and i start blabbing, pizzers her off to no end


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## Deejo

nader said:


> My love language is blowjobs.


I want that T-shirt ...

Friggin died laughing when I read this.

Then I found this brilliant, and true piece of wisdom:


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## Eagle441977

LauraF said:


> You'er anonymous on here, and nobody's gonna scream at you for saying it.
> 
> So give us some of the ugliest truths about what women don't/should know about men.
> 
> This isn't meant to make men look bad. There are things, some things women just dont know about men. What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?


I do not want your mother on vacation with us. 

Yes , I think you look bigger than when we got married, but it's hot
.
I look at your boobs all the time, and I look at other women's too, but I still like to look at yours 

It does bother me when you are tired at 9:30, I just say it doesn't cause love you

Buy as many pairs of shoes as you want, but once in a while wear those new heels to bed and only wear the heels, 

I would like to hear you say that I am sexy once in a while. ( lord i tell u that u are)

I do have an ego, but my feelings can be hurt. I just don't tell u when it happens.
I listen when you talk. Do you listen when I talk?

Once in a while make sex all about me. It doesn't have to be that often, just more than my birthday, well now that I think about that even on my birthday would be nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Moon

endlessgrief said:


> This thread is hilarious and so true! One thing I keep seeing is that men won't/can't listen to us when the TV is on. I must wait until a commercial break to speak to my husband. I fcucking HATE it with a passion, but there is nothing I can go.
> 
> *My husband always said that my male friends who I viewed as "brothers" just wanted to get in my pants. I told him he was full of sh!t but was proven wrong. WAY WRONG!!!!*
> 
> I think women think men view the world the way WE view the world and you are right, men are not that complicated. Chris Rock said it best when he said all he wants from his wife is SILENCE, SEX, and the BIGGEST PIECE OF CHICKEN at dinner.


I still laugh at my wife when she talks about her "friends." After you reach a certain age, outside of work relationships, mutual friends of the spouse and gay friends, it's damn near impossible for a man and woman to be friends. Most straight men don't make a habit to just hang out with women, no matter how "brotherly" it may seem


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## nader

Deejo said:


> I want that T-shirt ...
> 
> Friggin died laughing when I read this.
> 
> Then I found this brilliant, and true piece of wisdom:


Yeah, if it were socially acceptable to walk around with a shirt like that, I'd be all over it!

And BJs ARE like flowers, but you can't take that analogy to its furthest conclusion.. I get my wife flowers, but not nearly as often as I want bjs!


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## sinnister

Blue Moon said:


> I still laugh at my wife when she talks about her "friends." After you reach a certain age, outside of work relationships, mutual friends of the spouse and gay friends, it's damn near impossible for a man and woman to be friends. Most straight men don't make a habit to just hang out with women, no matter how "brotherly" it may seem


I agree completely. We're real men..not guys on romatic comedies. Unfortunately we do think about banging you even though you're a good "friend". Can't help it.


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## joe kidd

If I am quiet it doesn't mean I'm pissed....just have nothing to say.
Why is it only quality time if we are doing something you like?
I know the laundry doesn't do itself.......just like the lawn doesn't mow itself dear.


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## nader

If you put off clearing the dishwasher and let the sink get cluttered, *I"M GOING TO DO THEM IF I FEEL LIKE IT.*

If a singular item is misplaced or has a speck of food on it that I missed, *I am not creating more work for you. I did something you didn't feel like doing and now you don't have to!*

It can take 10-30 minutes to clear dishes. Amount of time it takes to rinse something off or put it in the right place: 5-15 seconds.

And I wasn't doing *you* a favor. I'm doing the kitchen a favor.


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## okeydokie

nader said:


> If you put off clearing the dishwasher and let the sink get cluttered, *I"M GOING TO DO THEM IF I FEEL LIKE IT.*
> 
> If a singular item is misplaced or has a speck of food on it that I missed, *I am not creating more work for you. I did something you didn't feel like doing and now you don't have to!*
> 
> It can take 10-30 minutes to clear dishes. Amount of time it takes to rinse something off or put it in the right place: 5-15 seconds.
> 
> And I wasn't doing *you* a favor. I'm doing the kitchen a favor.


my wife rearranges the dishes in the dishwasher after i have loaded it. i am fairly neat about it but i guess its not good enough. this is after they sat in the sink for hours and i finally get fed up enough to load it.


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## MattMatt

The one true thing you need to know? We are not mind readers.


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## Blue Moon

sinnister said:


> I agree completely. We're real men..not guys on romatic comedies. Unfortunately we do think about banging you even though you're a good "friend". Can't help it.


Exactly. I pointed out to my wife the other day that I don't have any ugly female friends. Meaning, if I hadn't met my wife, at some point, we probably would have been more than friends. They fell into the friend category by default since I'm a faithful husband, lol.


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## 7737

Going back to divorce facts and marriage counsellors topping the charts....

They talk a fantastic job.... we ALL know what we should be doing to make our marriages work...we should communicate more, we should be more receptive to each others needs, we should have more empathy etc etc....we know all this....now put a bloody great dollop of reality into the equation.....If only it were that simple!

Its like people saying getting sex outside a marriage is W R O N G.... may you rot in hell! 
Yeah...BUT....


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## His_Pixie

Many of us (women) understand the pressures of being the breadwinner. Because many of us are the primary breadwinner.

Great thread,BTW.


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## birsha

Complexity said:


> The last thing a man notices on a woman is her shoes, so stop obsessing about them


Shows how one guy is not another. It's probably the first thing I notice.


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## DvlsAdvc8

birsha said:


> Shows how one guy is not another. It's probably the first thing I notice.


You are the 1%.


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## kag123

Can I ask some questions of the men here? This seemed like an appropriate place to ask them...

1. When sitting there zoning out, what do you think about? What runs through your head? Think about times when you are most likely to have that quiet time to think - like the shower, or driving in the car, or whatever. 

My husband insists that he thinks about NOTHING. That his mind is totally blank and shut off. I have visions of Homer Simpson in my head when he says this. Is it true? Or do you think about things that you just don't want to repeat out loud to me (like banging the neighbor, for example)?

2. Is it fair for me to assume that if you don't voice an opinion to me about something, that you don't have one and I shouldn't beg you for a response? Examples - what we are having for dinner, what groceries we buy, what kind of furniture we get, where we go to dinner with our friends, etc. If you don't speak up and say something, is it OK to carry on and make all of these decisions without you, or is that running you over completely?


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## DvlsAdvc8

kag123 said:


> Can I ask some questions of the men here? This seemed like an appropriate place to ask them...
> 
> 1. When sitting there zoning out, what do you think about? What runs through your head? Think about times when you are most likely to have that quiet time to think - like the shower, or driving in the car, or whatever.


Usually... nothing. Really.



kag123 said:


> 2. Is it fair for me to assume that if you don't voice an opinion to me about something, that you don't have one and I shouldn't beg you for a response? Examples - what we are having for dinner, what groceries we buy, what kind of furniture we get, where we go to dinner with our friends, etc. If you don't speak up and say something, is it OK to carry on and make all of these decisions without you, or is that running you over completely?


Usually we don't really care. I wouldn't recommend doing things without involving us at all... but telling us what you want before hand is plenty. Most of the time, we don't really care. A couch is a couch. If we care, we'll give you input when you tell us what you want/plan to do.


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## badbane

The ugly truth is that men are simple. All most men want is three things. a job that pays enough that he can live the way he wants to live. He has someone to put IT in and makes him feel like a million bucks. The last thing we want is to be in a Heist.


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## thunderstruck

endlessgrief said:


> My husband always said that my male friends who I viewed as "brothers" just wanted to get in my pants. I told him he was full of sh!t but was proven wrong. WAY WRONG!!!!


I told my W the same thing about her "brothers." She got incredibly pizzed off that I would think such a horrendous thing. Incredibly insulting to her. Then...I found out later that two of her "brothers" were coming on to her hard on FB.

Still waiting to hear that I was right.


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## WorkingOnMe

kag123 said:


> Can I ask some questions of the men here? This seemed like an appropriate place to ask them...
> 
> 1. When sitting there zoning out, what do you think about? What runs through your head? Think about times when you are most likely to have that quiet time to think - like the shower, or driving in the car, or whatever.
> 
> My husband insists that he thinks about NOTHING. That his mind is totally blank and shut off. I have visions of Homer Simpson in my head when he says this. Is it true? Or do you think about things that you just don't want to repeat out loud to me (like banging the neighbor, for example)?
> 
> 2. Is it fair for me to assume that if you don't voice an opinion to me about something, that you don't have one and I shouldn't beg you for a response? Examples - what we are having for dinner, what groceries we buy, what kind of furniture we get, where we go to dinner with our friends, etc. If you don't speak up and say something, is it OK to carry on and make all of these decisions without you, or is that running you over completely?


1. Sometimes it really is nothing, totally blank. Other times it's things I'm stressed about, like work or bills or deadlines. And yes, sometimes I'm thinking about something I just don't want to share. It could be about banging the neighbor, but more often than not it's about doing things with the wife that she refuses to do.....and I just know that if I say it outloud she'll be pissed and I'm never getting it anyway so why bother talking about it.

2. I always have an opinion. If I don't voice it then it's usually because I think you won't like it and my opinion is not strong enough for me to care either way. If I want fish and you want steak, I'm not going to argue about it cause let's face it; steak is pretty damn good. If I have a strong opinion, then you'll know it. When we were finishing our house my wife kept bugging me about what shades I wanted for the windows. Ya, I saw one in the samples I liked but honestly I didn't want to make the decision and then hear about how much she hates them for the next 5 years. So I refused to make the decision. But then she couldn't make up her mind, so finally I just ordered the ones I liked. I think that's what she wanted in the first place. She'd rather I was responsible for choosing so she can complain about it.


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## in my tree

pjuk said:


> What annoys us most? that sex is so often in your gift, no matter how needy we are.
> 
> And yes, we do think of your friends and your sister when we masturbate, but that doesn't mean we want to dump you for them...


oh... my... gawd... now there is something that I wish that I never knew about men.


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## Tall Average Guy

kag123 said:


> Can I ask some questions of the men here? This seemed like an appropriate place to ask them...
> 
> 1. When sitting there zoning out, what do you think about? What runs through your head? Think about times when you are most likely to have that quiet time to think - like the shower, or driving in the car, or whatever.
> 
> My husband insists that he thinks about NOTHING. That his mind is totally blank and shut off. I have visions of Homer Simpson in my head when he says this. Is it true? Or do you think about things that you just don't want to repeat out loud to me (like banging the neighbor, for example)?


It depends. Sometime it is really nothing, or everything. I often will just jump around think about things, with no real rhyme or reason. The only connect in my admittedly out there mind, so I really can't say I am think about anything specific. Sometimes though, it is about thinks we don't want to share (rarely about the neighbor) or that we are not ready to share (because we need to think throught what it is we are thinking on the subject).



> 2. Is it fair for me to assume that if you don't voice an opinion to me about something, that you don't have one and I shouldn't beg you for a response? Examples - what we are having for dinner, what groceries we buy, what kind of furniture we get, where we go to dinner with our friends, etc. If you don't speak up and say something, is it OK to carry on and make all of these decisions without you, or is that running you over completely?


It depends on the guy. If he clearly lets you know his opinions when they are important, than silence implies either he does not care or his preference is not worth fighting about (which of his two favorite restuarants to go to). But if he if he never gives you opinions, or is trying to please you too much, then he is likely allowing you to run over him.


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## Juicer

1. I am probably thinking of something you don't care about. Like how at work, I have to do an audit of some company, and it is due on Monday, and I will try to think of a way, to get it done, and still catch the game later tonight. Or if I am still in the office pool for something or another.

2. As for the opinion thing, it depends on how major the issue is. 
If it is something like, what kind of groceries do we get, store brand or name brand, I don't care. 
If it's you are going out to dinner with your friends, and you are simply telling me about, I _probably_ won't care. If there are males there, that may change it. 
If it is "I am thinking about buying some new furniture. It cost over $1800." Then I probably thought you were joking, or I wasn't paying attention.


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## geek down

kag123 said:


> Can I ask some questions of the men here? This seemed like an appropriate place to ask them...
> 
> 1. When sitting there zoning out, what do you think about? What runs through your head? Think about times when you are most likely to have that quiet time to think - like the shower, or driving in the car, or whatever.
> 
> My husband insists that he thinks about NOTHING. That his mind is totally blank and shut off. I have visions of Homer Simpson in my head when he says this. Is it true? Or do you think about things that you just don't want to repeat out loud to me (like banging the neighbor, for example)?
> 
> 2. Is it fair for me to assume that if you don't voice an opinion to me about something, that you don't have one and I shouldn't beg you for a response? Examples - what we are having for dinner, what groceries we buy, what kind of furniture we get, where we go to dinner with our friends, etc. If you don't speak up and say something, is it OK to carry on and make all of these decisions without you, or is that running you over completely?


1. 9 times out of 10, it is INDEED nothing...the other time, its usually about some sexual fantasty wewant you to do but know you would get mad and walk out of the room.

2. Ask once, but get to know the responses... if you always ask us at 8AM what we want for supper and you get the same 'i dont care' response.. then quit asking us 12 hours before the meal...ask us about 6pm.. 

Men love habit..we'll do or say the same thing over and over.. My stbxw used to drive me NUTS asking the same questions, getting the same response and then getting mad at me for it.. 

If we have an opinion about something, we WILL tell you...and tell you and tell you...


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## vellocet

LauraF said:


> What do you wish women knew about you, that would make relationships easier?


That when we are watching a show or a game, we don't want to pause it 50 times due to talking.


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## thenub

If you want us to look at your shoes..... Wear them on your chest.


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## DayOne

No woman likes a 2.5 year old zombie thread?


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## vellocet

*I love zombies*


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