# Why won't he propose? HELP?!?!



## Waiting

Hello Everyone! New to forum and need advice. My boyfriend and I have been together for five years and living together for two. I am 21 and he is 23. We are both very mature for our age. I have been living independantly and taking care of myself since i turned 18. He has a stable job as a pipefitter in the union and I work in an accounting office and am going to school currently. Neither of us have any children or have been in any serious previous relationships. Also, his best friend just got married and had a baby in the last two years. 

We both love each other very much. I have no idea what i would do without him and never want to find out. I fully intend to be with him for the rest of my life and he says he feels the same way. We have a very healthy relationship; no cheating, when we argue we never name call or anything like that and we are both very open and honest with one another. Although, I am very confused right now and have no idea what to do. Over the last year i have been thinking more and more about marriage and am more certain every day of how important it is to me and how badly i want to marry him. I was straight forward with him from the time we got together (when i was 16) and told him repeatedly that one day i wanted to be married and have a family, and he agreed and said he wanted the same thing. Children are very important to me and he knows this also, he says he wants children with me also and knows it's a deal breaker should he ever change his mind. 

That being said, now that i am talking more about it and want it so badly he has told me that qoute, "Yes, one day we will get married but first i have to wrap my head around the marriage consept, I don't understand why we have to be married just because society says so, we live as if we are married now and feel as if we are married so why should we do it? Why do we need our friends and family to witness and why do we need a piece of paper to make it official?" 

I want to have my first child when I am between 23-25. I understand many women are okay with being a little older when they have children and more power to them, but personally I really want to have kids soon. I also do not want to have children without being married. 

I want to be married so badly because to me marriage means being there for one another for the rest of our lives, and I want to have that promise from him that even when my hair turns grey and we're both older he'll still love me just as much as i love him. I've explained this to him and he says he is thinking about it and that he thinks about it daily but i really don't think it's something he is seriously considering.

Last year in the fall i told him that by the fall of this year i wanted to be engaged or i was moving out. I held to it until just about two weeks ago when i told him that I only wanted to be with him and that marriage wouldn't mean anything to me if it wasn't him i was saying the vows to. He was very happy to be let out of the ultimatum. But i am just so confused?? I don't want to force him because i don't think he'll be happy if i do and i won't be happy about having to force him. I want him to want to do it but I don't want to wait forever. What should I do? Any advice would be helpful! 

Sorry about the long post but I really need help. I feel like i'm going crazy.


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## Blanca

I know what you are going through. I moved states with my H (then boyfriend) to start my life with him because i thought we had agreed on getting married. After I moved i found out he wasnt really interested in getting married for various reasons. 

I did what you did. ultimatums and pressuring my H. we got married but i will always feel like we got married for reasons other then the 'right' ones. so im glad you dropped the ultimatum. i live with that regret. 

i watched an episode on dr. phil about this. he said why would the guy want to get married when he has everything he needs? and its very true. whats the difference between now and being married, to your h? probably not much. Dr. Phil said his wife kicked him out when he said he wasnt ready for marriage. I dunno. maybe that is a good approach. she got what she wanted. 

Im sorry i dont have a lot of advice for you. I just have my sympathies. i know how painful it all is.


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## Country Girl

Because as we say here in the South, " He's got his cake and eating it too". An ultimatum is the wrong way to go. You'll have to be creative here and "show" him he can't have everything without marriage. Perhaps, go stay with a friend for a week and only offer to "date" him. Oh, I don't know......you'll think of something. The bottom line is that you aren't going to be happy with the current arrangement. Either he is going to have to come around on his own or you'll need to move on.


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## dcrim

Well, the "piece of paper" does give you each rights in regards to the other. Love doesn't need it, but the legal profession does.


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## preso

If he won't marry you and it's that important to you, move on and find someone else.


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## 827Aug

Waiting said:


> I want to be married so badly because to me marriage means being there for one another for the rest of our lives, and I want to have that promise from him that even when my hair turns grey and we're both older he'll still love me just as much as i love him.


I hate to be the one to shatter your dream. Many of us on this forum will tell you that a marriage certificate doesn't make that happen. Unfortuantely, that piece of paper doesn't seem to mean anything permnanet in our culture now. 

Perhaps others can offer better advice. It seems one of you isn't going to be happy. I agree with you; if you are going to have children, marriage is important. But then he is going to feel trapped. What is his reason for not wanting to be married?


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## preso

Sometimes in life, the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers and in this case, him not wanting to marry...
could be your BIGGEST GIFT !!!... so just move on, stop wasting time on him.. there are millions of guys out there, one suited better for you.


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## xSBx

I can relate...my bf and I have lived together for 4 yrs know each other 5 yrs. We have been thru thick and thin together-ie his fathers death, changing jobs, moving out of state, his divorce. It wears you down. Mine at least says that he wants to marry me and tells people that we are going to get married soon and that he 'has plans' for us, I just do not know what they are!!
You are still young and need to experience life, with or without him.


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## Sandy55

Darned if I'd beg any man to marry me, I want one to beg _me_ to marry him!:smthumbup:

He is sending you a message LOUD AND CLEAR, honey.


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## Airee

Sandy55 said:


> Darned if I'd beg any man to marry me, I want one to beg _me_ to marry him!:smthumbup:
> 
> He is sending you a message LOUD AND CLEAR, honey.


LOL! You're funny Sandy 55.

To Waiting,

Honey, you need to keep on waiting. You're still quite young. I'm not that much older than you, we're still within the same decade, but ask yourself this, when you're 70, will it matter if you had your first kid at 25 vs. 29? 

Live fully, love fully, everything will fall into place... Also, take time to experiment if you two want before you fully commit...Make these mistakes during your early 20's instead of when you're in your mid 30/40's with 2-3 kids lives at stake...

 A


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## Atholk

Waiting said:


> Last year in the fall i told him that by the fall of this year i wanted to be engaged or i was moving out. I held to it until just about two weeks ago when i told him that I only wanted to be with him and that marriage wouldn't mean anything to me if it wasn't him i was saying the vows to. He was very happy to be let out of the ultimatum.


You just taught him that he never needs to marry you to have you stay with him.


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## preso

:iagree:


Atholk said:


> You just taught him that he never needs to marry you to have you stay with him.



yep...
wouldn't be me holding my breath for some man...


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## MrsSchaffer

Airee said:


> LOL! will it matter if you had your first kid at 25 vs. 29?
> 
> Live fully, love fully, everything will fall into place... Also, take time to experiment if you two want before you fully commit...Make these mistakes during your early 20's instead of when you're in your mid 30/40's with 2-3 kids lives at stake...
> 
> A


I can relate to OP. I want my first child here hopefully in the next year. I am 20 now, and couldn't imagine waiting another 10 years to have a child. I don't want to be old when I have my kids. I want to be able to keep up with them, and just be a young mom. My mom was younger when she had me and I think that gave us a better relationship than if she would have been older. I personally want to be done having kids before I am 28. I want 4 kids, so I gotta get busy now. :smthumbup:

It depends on the person, and I see nothing wrong with wanting kids young.


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## Airee

MrsSchaffer said:


> I can relate to OP. I want my first child here hopefully in the next year. I am 20 now, and couldn't imagine waiting another 10 years to have a child. I don't want to be old when I have my kids. I want to be able to keep up with them, and just be a young mom. My mom was younger when she had me and I think that gave us a better relationship than if she would have been older. I personally want to be done having kids before I am 28. I want 4 kids, so I gotta get busy now. :smthumbup:
> 
> It depends on the person, and I see nothing wrong with wanting kids young.



Well first of all, this is not a personal attack. I'm just a strong-headed gal and mean no disrespect here at all. But when I hear people say things like that, it drives me up the darn'd wall . 

IMHO, a good mother/father is one that can provide for their children, mentally, emotionally, financially, physically. Having kids is not a RACE folks. Having children means providing stability. 

I think it's selfish when individuals have children b/c of their wants and needs. Consider your unborn child first over your selfish needs of having kids like its a darn'd rat race...
"I am 20 now, and couldn't imagine waiting another 10 years to have a child."

Impatience is a virtue of immaturity and narcissism. The women I know are professionals, in their mid 20's with 8 yrs of college and post-grad behind them and stability in their future. Most have had one child in grad school and one on the way afterwards and some plan to have more. They are able to have those kids with their education behind them and stability ahead of them. LOL, what makes you think that someone in their mid 20's-early 30's can't keep up with their kids as well as someone in their early 20's-mid 20's? All one has to do is stay healthy physically and mentally.

The difference bwn them and you is life experience. Now don't get on here telling me all you need is love. When a family can't provide for their kids, it equals strain and hard times which are not fair or healthy for that child... 

Be smart ladies, life and relationships are not a race, your ovaries are good until you're 45-50 with serious risk of congenital conditions at 32-35. There is time, you live once, enjoy yourself and then give unselfishly to your children/husband/family. 

This comes from someone who has dealt with lots of women and teenage pregnancy. I am informed, I advise you to at least do the same, before you jump a$$ first into things...

A


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## poetprose

Waiting said:


> Hello Everyone! New to forum and need advice. My boyfriend and I have been together for five years and living together for two. I am 21 and he is 23. We are both very mature for our age. I have been living independantly and taking care of myself since i turned 18. He has a stable job as a pipefitter in the union and I work in an accounting office and am going to school currently. Neither of us have any children or have been in any serious previous relationships. Also, his best friend just got married and had a baby in the last two years.
> 
> We both love each other very much. I have no idea what i would do without him and never want to find out. I fully intend to be with him for the rest of my life and he says he feels the same way. We have a very healthy relationship; no cheating, when we argue we never name call or anything like that and we are both very open and honest with one another. Although, I am very confused right now and have no idea what to do. Over the last year i have been thinking more and more about marriage and am more certain every day of how important it is to me and how badly i want to marry him. I was straight forward with him from the time we got together (when i was 16) and told him repeatedly that one day i wanted to be married and have a family, and he agreed and said he wanted the same thing. Children are very important to me and he knows this also, he says he wants children with me also and knows it's a deal breaker should he ever change his mind.
> 
> That being said, now that i am talking more about it and want it so badly he has told me that qoute, "Yes, one day we will get married but first i have to wrap my head around the marriage consept, I don't understand why we have to be married just because society says so, we live as if we are married now and feel as if we are married so why should we do it? Why do we need our friends and family to witness and why do we need a piece of paper to make it official?"
> 
> I want to have my first child when I am between 23-25. I understand many women are okay with being a little older when they have children and more power to them, but personally I really want to have kids soon. I also do not want to have children without being married.
> 
> I want to be married so badly because to me marriage means being there for one another for the rest of our lives, and I want to have that promise from him that even when my hair turns grey and we're both older he'll still love me just as much as i love him. I've explained this to him and he says he is thinking about it and that he thinks about it daily but i really don't think it's something he is seriously considering.
> 
> Last year in the fall i told him that by the fall of this year i wanted to be engaged or i was moving out. I held to it until just about two weeks ago when i told him that I only wanted to be with him and that marriage wouldn't mean anything to me if it wasn't him i was saying the vows to. He was very happy to be let out of the ultimatum. But i am just so confused?? I don't want to force him because i don't think he'll be happy if i do and i won't be happy about having to force him. I want him to want to do it but I don't want to wait forever. What should I do? Any advice would be helpful!
> 
> Sorry about the long post but I really need help. I feel like i'm going crazy.



Forcing anyone into something is wrong period.. the fact that you are even talk like this suggests to me , you are moving into a desperate state which is so sad, because what you and he have now is GOLDEN!! you have all the right stuff right now , a good foundation (KEY) to building and continuing a good relationship 


STEP BACK........... breathe and appreciate what you have or you will just throw it out the window by your own thinking and eventually doing 
enjoy what you have with him "now" your missing smelling the Roses for a future commitment


the reason you feel you are going crazy is because your compulsion to get married is hurting your relationship and i think your partner is reacting to your desperation and it is scaring him

and it should!! marriage will happen on its own love doesnt need to be forced , sometimes we have to let it bloom like a Rose when ( it) is ready the time will inform both of you together you both will just know then you can cut the Rose carry the Roses down the isle !!! ok hug


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## MrsSchaffer

Airee said:


> Well first of all, this is not a personal attack. I'm just a strong-headed gal and mean no disrespect here at all. But when I hear people say things like that, it drives me up the darn'd wall .
> 
> IMHO, a good mother/father is one that can provide for their children, mentally, emotionally, financially, physically. Having kids is not a RACE folks. Having children means providing stability.
> 
> I think it's selfish when individuals have children b/c of their wants and needs. Consider your unborn child first over your selfish needs of having kids like its a darn'd rat race...
> "I am 20 now, and couldn't imagine waiting another 10 years to have a child."
> 
> Impatience is a virtue of immaturity and narcissism. The women I know are professionals, in their mid 20's with 8 yrs of college and post-grad behind them and stability in their future. Most have had one child in grad school and one on the way afterwards and some plan to have more. They are able to have those kids with their education behind them and stability ahead of them. LOL, what makes you think that someone in their mid 20's-early 30's can't keep up with their kids as well as someone in their early 20's-mid 20's? All one has to do is stay healthy physically and mentally.
> 
> The difference bwn them and you is life experience. Now don't get on here telling me all you need is love. When a family can't provide for their kids, it equals strain and hard times which are not fair or healthy for that child...
> 
> Be smart ladies, life and relationships are not a race, your ovaries are good until you're 45-50 with serious risk of congenital conditions at 32-35. There is time, you live once, enjoy yourself and then give unselfishly to your children/husband/family.
> 
> This comes from someone who has dealt with lots of women and teenage pregnancy. I am informed, I advise you to at least do the same, before you jump a$$ first into things...
> 
> A


You have no idea what my situation is, or what my life is like, and most of what you said is just rambling bull****. I am 20 years old. I have been married for a year and a half. We have lived as a married couple for more than long enough to know that having a child is the next step for us to take, and we aren't making it a race. When you want a child as bad as I do, it has nothing to do with impatience. I have been patient and I know right now is the best time for my husband and i to start a family. I want to be able to keep up with my children, and i know that will be easier when I am younger. I see it everyday, older parents just get so worn out, and most short tempered with their kids, because rather than running the energy out of their kids, they try to yell it out of them. Sure there are young parents like this as well but it seems to be the older parents that do so(and deny doing it). 

You talk about life experience and yet you know nothing of mine. I have more life experience in my short 20 years than many people will see in 50. I have lived, I have traveled, I have loved, I have been educated, I have had my fun. I am ready for a child and it has nothing to do with impatience. I am a professional, regardless of my age. I have no desire to ever spend 8 years in college, and I will do just fine without ever doing so. I will be able to give unselfishly to my husband/children now. Just because I know that now is a good time, doesn't make me selfish. It makes you closed minded thinking that you know every situation. I don't want a child as an accessory, I want a child because my husband and I love each other very much and are ready to bring a child into this world to raise together. We have planned this, and are currently trying to get pregnant.

I will have my children with my education behind me. I am a prehospital provider. I deal with life/death every day and it just shows me how short life really is and that we shouldn't wait for an older age to do the things that we want to do with out lives. I make good money, and so does my husband. We don't just have jobs, we have careers. Stable careers that are more than capable of taking care of a child. I am thinking only of my future children, when I am trying to have them now. 

By your standards, I will be a great mother, and I thank you for thinking so. You haven't seen and don't know everything. Don't make assumptions, they make an ass out of you.


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## GAsoccerman

MrsSchaffer...Are both your parents still together? still married? You are very close to your mother, but what about your father? Are you close to him? Both parents still together and how long?


Just curious


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## MrsSchaffer

GAsoccerman said:


> MrsSchaffer...Are both your parents still together? still married? You are very close to your mother, but what about your father? Are you close to him? Both parents still together and how long?
> 
> 
> Just curious


My parents were never married. My father has never been in my life. I however have a wonderful set of grandparents that were just that, my second set of parents, who are now going on 50 years of marriage.


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## Mommybean

Mrs. Schaffer, you are entitled to your own opinion, but honestly....to say that someone who is in their 30's is a less tolerant parent, and does not have the energy for them is not only ridiculous but insulting. We had our first chiild right before I turned 32 and our second right before I turned 34. Wow, and they aren't pushing me around in a wheelchair..go figure. I will never look back on my life and feel like I missed out on anything, because I got it all out of my system before I had my boys. Every decision we make, is with their best interest in mind. The extra years I took in having my kids, was the best decision for US...and contrary to what you want to belive, I don't get out of breath running after my 2 and 4 year olds, I don't fall asleep reading to them, I don't lose my patience with them because they have energy. Your generalizing about those things, is highly insulting, much as the way you felt about the post from Airee. IF you are in a position mentally, financially and relationship wise to have children AND be everything that a child needs you to be without feelings of frustration, self absorbtion or putting your ego first...then by all means, it is your right...but I have seen many people in your age bracket that are NOT at that point. If you are, thats great, but please, don't belittle parents who have waited till they were older than you to have kids. Age should not figure into the equation nearly as much as maturity.


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## MrsSchaffer

I will never look at life like I have missed anything either. I have heard time and time again how people wish they would have had their kids younger, and having my children while I am young is important to me. I never had anything in my system to get out. I don't party, I don't drink, and am goal and career oriented. I am not generalizing. I am stating that based on what I have seen, which is personal experience, I see it that way. That is my opinion, and as I stated, I have the right to have that opinion. I don't see why you would get insulted by something that you don't believe is true. You are now generalizing me by my age. You cannot have it both ways. It is not a case of IF. I do have everything needed to raise a child. More so than most of the people that are much older than myself. I am not belittling parents. If you see that as belittling, don't belittle me for being capable and ready for a child at a younger age than you were. As I have stated many times, I am more than mature/capable of being a parent. Yet, everyone here wants to judge me based on my age. You state that I shouldn't make statements about people who waited til they were older, you shouldn't make statements about my having children at a younger age. You act like I am doing something irrational and unheard of. Waiting until you are older doesn't make you a better parent, just like having children while you are still young, doesn't make you a bad parent. The gate cannot go both ways.


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## Mommybean

Wow, did you even read my post? If you had, maybe you would have realized that I was NOT attacking you, but you just seem to be looking to start a fight.


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## MrsSchaffer

I was not attacking you and I never said you were attacking me. I was simply responding. Are you looking for a fight? If not, why mention it? I am by no means looking to start anything. I am having a simple discussion. And yes, I did read what you posted.


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## GAsoccerman

Mrs. Schaffer, 

My father died when I was 18 months old, I watched my mother struggle, probably like your mother has struggled, but luckily it seems she has a great set of parents that were around to help raise you, and I guess that is why you feel it is important to have children young. You want to be that supportive and playful grandparent that you had in your life.

All my grandparents were deceased as I grew up, so I just had my sisters and brothers, plus eventually a step father.

Lost two brothers along the way, 1 to cancer the other gunshot wound.

But I can understand why you want children so young, your mother had you when she was young and your grand parents were very loving and supportive, thats awesome.

Now why do you suppose they are asking you to wait? I meant they know and understand that you grew up in a loving environment that you will be a wonderful mother and they will be a good support system.

Do you have any pets? a Dog perhaps? If not can I suggest you buy one, a puppy. A labador is a good breed, especially if you do have a baby, they are excellent around children.

But raising a puppy is a great tool to see how you will function, you wouldn't believe how your life changes after getting a dog, you have to feed it, clean up after it, groom it,medical shots and vet check ups, train it, love it, much like a child. Someone has to take care of it when you go away or at work for a long period of time.

Please take my suggestion, get a good feel for it, A labador is puppy for at least 2 years, handle the puppy for 6 months, if no problems then i say go for it. But it may be a real eye opener for you.

But best of luck in what ever you decide, I do think you are a smart intelligent young lady, it comes across in your posts, we just want you to think it through that is all.


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## MrsSchaffer

I have three dogs, 5 cats, a turtle and a rabbit. I know what it is like to have someone depend on me.


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## QuitaBee

MrsSchaffer said:


> I have three dogs, 5 cats, a turtle and a rabbit. I know what it is like to have someone depend on me.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ok I agreed with you for the most part (except the being younger to keep up thing) until you said this!!!


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## QuitaBee

I also would like to say that it seems to me that older parents might have less energy but they have ALOT more patience. I am a young mother of two and I admire older parents and the patience that they have... they yell less (for the most part) and still manage to get their point across better then I can (im working on it lol)!!!


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## Mommybean

Yeah, I must say, I have had a plethora of animals all my life...it in NO WAY prepared me for the responsibility of my two boys. That's comparing apples and oranges. Life experiences are the best preparation for children. Even if you have lived what you consider a "full life" at 20...you will look back at 30 and realize you really didn't know all that you thought you did.


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## ChCkBzk

Well glad to know I'm going to be an "old" Mom one of these days. I wasn't aware 29 was old. lol

Anyway, I am wondering if you are from the south? Most people down here tend to get married very early (as in early 20's) and let's look at how many of them have babies at 22 and 25 and then find themselves single mothers of two kids at 30. 

Lots.

I know it probably feels like the world is going to end if he doesn't marry you, but forcing him into a marriage is a disaster in the making. If marriage is what you want RIGHT NOW, and he's not going to give you that RIGHT now, then accept that you will have to wait for him or leave and find somebody else as equally as interested in marriage.


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## ChCkBzk

Also, I can leave my dog in the backyard if I have to go somewhere. A baby, however, cannot be left anywhere. 

Animals and babies, totally different.


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## MrsSchaffer

QuitaBee said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Ok I agreed with you for the most part (except the being younger to keep up thing) until you said this!!!


You should have read the other posts, and then you wouldn't have made yourself look like an idiot. Someone suggested I get a puppy. I was responding that I have above named animals. I am not saying that animals are equal to children by any means...


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## dobo

Glad I didn't wait for some 20 YO know-it-all to get permission to have my children. 

When you're older, you'll realize how little you actually know, MrsSchaffer. And when your kids are 20 and telling you they know it all, you'll remember these days and wish you could take them back... not that anyone as arrogant as you would ever admit that now. But I am patient. I can wait. Afterall, I am in my 40s.


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## Halbert

preso said:


> Sometimes in life, the greatest gifts are unanswered prayers and in this case, him not wanting to marry...
> could be your BIGGEST GIFT !!!... so just move on, stop wasting time on him.. there are millions of guys out there, one suited better for you.


You are exactly right my dear..There is someone waiting for you you just find out him..


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## MrsSchaffer

dobo said:


> Glad I didn't wait for some 20 YO know-it-all to get permission to have my children.
> 
> When you're older, you'll realize how little you actually know, MrsSchaffer. And when your kids are 20 and telling you they know it all, you'll remember these days and wish you could take them back... not that anyone as arrogant as you would ever admit that now. But I am patient. I can wait. Afterall, I am in my 40s.


I know enough, that doesn't make me a know it all. I love how "adults" assume that young adults don't know anything about life, and if they have an opinion, they must be a know it all. Just because you wouldn't have been ready to have kids at 20, doesn't mean that no one else can be. When my kids are 20, and they are making decision in life that they have thoroughly thought through and are ready for, I will support them, just as my mom is supporting me in my decision to have children. She is very aware that my husband and I are very much ready to take on the responsibility of children, just as were were ready a year and a half ago to take on marriage. We didn't just jump into having kids like everyone assumes people of our age do. I am not a patient person. If I want something, I go out and I get it, but never if it is not the right time. I don't sit back and watch the world go around me and just hope that everything will fall into place, I put it into place. Not everyone has a strong personality, or the will power to do this however. I will never wish to take these days back, ever. I am who I am and I live with no regrets. I don't regret growing up faster than I should have, nor will I ever. I will never regret people seeing me as a know it all, just because they don't think that someone of my age can know what I know. Just because some is "only" 20, doesn't mean that they are ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world. 

Besides the point. I don't need anyone's permission to have children. I am my own person and regardless of what people think it is my life. I am an adult making adult decisions. I just found out yesterday that I miscarried my first child. My temper is quite short and if I came off rougher than I intended I apologize. 

Love has no age. Whether you are 20 or 40, you are no one to tell another person that they cannot be in love, have a healthy relationship, or be a good parent. To do so is beyond ignorant.


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## 1nurse

I think you should be true to yourself and your wants and needs. I know you have been together a long time and want to marry this man. However I think by sacrificing your own wants and long term goals you may regret it. It will hurt like hell to end a relationship but there could be some wonderful other man out there that wants the same things as you do. Life is strange and wonderful sometimes. I have been recently divorced after spending mostly 16 good years with my ex. I know the pain of a long term relationship ending but I have a great feeling about the future and finding someone more compatible with my hopes and goals. Ultimately it's your life and your choices. Do what is best for you but please consider that maybe this man you're with now really isn't your happy ever after. Think about it and best of luck to you. You DESERVE happiness. We all do.


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## FieryHairedLady

It may be time to move on.


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## Mrs.G

827Aug said:


> I hate to be the one to shatter your dream. Many of us on this forum will tell you that a marriage certificate doesn't make that happen. Unfortuantely, that piece of paper doesn't seem to mean anything permnanet in our culture now.
> 
> Perhaps others can offer better advice. It seems one of you isn't going to be happy. I agree with you; if you are going to have children, marriage is important. But then he is going to feel trapped. What is his reason for not wanting to be married?


:iagree: Marriage is not a guarantee. It is a leap of faith. 

The OP is too young to be thinking of marriage and children. She needs to get to know herself before she ties herself down. People who marry too young, often have the worst midlife crises. No matter how mature we feel we are at 21, our brains have not even finished developing yet. This is why the experts say that the best age to get married is closer to 30.

I lived on my own for five years before I married. I dated, had my heart broken, broke some hearts and defined myself out of an abusive childhood. I am so glad I did it.

The OP has a very romantic and naive view of marriage and motherhood. She is going into this with stars in her eyes; it is not as easy as she believes it is.


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## Atholk

This thread is two years old, let it die lol.


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## that_girl

I have lived that life you live now with someone.

He didn't ask me to marry him because he didn't want to get married.

It's that simple.


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## heartsbeating

Waiting said:


> I held to it until just about two weeks ago when i told him that I only wanted to be with him and that marriage wouldn't mean anything to me if it wasn't him i was saying the vows to.


To each their own. Marriage is important to you - if it's marrying him. You obviously became worried he might not agree to your ultimatum and that you'd lose him. I actually think it's a good thing he's telling you that he's wanting to understand the concept of marriage and why he feels it's needed. I think this shows maturity on his part instead of just acting to keep you happy. 

Let go of the illusion that marriage promises but please don't misinterpret this. I'm not suggesting that you _won't_ live to that long age together as a loving married couple. Work towards that every day together but while staying in the reality of what is.

If getting married and having children at a certain age is important to you and he's not walking that path, then I do agree with the others that you need to move on. What I feel is tricky about giving ultimatums is, even if he agrees to marry you, is it what he really wanted? Will you question that later in life? Will he question it and potentially resent this later in life? Marrying or not, these are very personal choices. No one way is right or wrong. Good luck!


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## heartsbeating

oh, and I just noticed it's a very old thread. 

I wonder if he proposed?


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## that_girl

I had my first daughter at 22...my second at 32. Much better in my 30s.

But anyway, you can't tell a young person that they don't know. They won't realize they don't know until they are older. No fault of their own. However, the defensive nature makes me think MrsSchaffer hears some truth in the posts and doesn't want to admit it to herself. Fine. Animals do take up a lot of time, however, it's nothing like a child. She'll learn...we all learned.

To the OP: He isn't proposing because 1-- he doesn't want to and 2-- he doesn't need to. You're already living as his wife.


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## kendra2705

It's true why would he when he already has a marrige situation and without the expense of a wedding ??? you have to give yourself a time limit , not him mention it then leave it , when the time is up , leave and say I am going to look for a husband,

Alternatively, if you love him so much that you would never replace him except it and be happy .


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## nada

Hi Waiting. I read your post with interest, and then I read it again. It struck me as unusually onesided "I want, I, me, I... etc. Does your BF have a say at all? Is beeing married asap rally that important? Ask a male friend if you have a tiny little touch of bridezilla. Is your plans of marriage and children at predetermined age more important thant your BF and his plans/wishes? If you force your way on him, you are trying to take the power in the relationship, which may not be healthy in the log run. Slow down a bit and talk to him. I would not propose to someone whith a toucht of bridezailla. If you take thinks more slowly things may improve?

The fact that he has not proposed does not signify anything more than that he has not proposed. Dont overanalyze - men are not too complicated, but if he feels that you are ramming a marriage down his throat... well think for yourself 


Best of luck
Nada


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## that_girl

MrsSchaffer said:


> I can relate to OP. I want my first child here hopefully in the next year. I am 20 now, and couldn't imagine waiting another 10 years to have a child. I don't want to be old when I have my kids. I want to be able to keep up with them, and just be a young mom. My mom was younger when she had me and I think that gave us a better relationship than if she would have been older. I personally want to be done having kids before I am 28. I want 4 kids, so I gotta get busy now. :smthumbup:
> 
> It depends on the person, and I see nothing wrong with wanting kids young.


You will be fine at any age.


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