# wife doesn't reach out when I'm struggling



## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

As the betrayed husband, 4 months out and working on rebuilding our marriage, sometimes I just have bad days. I start to feel hopeless and I withdraw. I stop talking, and just crawl inside of myself with my bad feelings. My WW will ask me what's wrong (duh) but she won't initiate any meaningful conversation. She thinks I'm "mad" and she just starts to back away. 

I need for her to come to me when she sees I'm having a bad time, provide reassurance, express commitment, tell me she's there for me, etc. Am I needy? How can I get this from her without asking? I'm tired of asking for things.

She has never come to me, on her own, and told me much of anything. She's working on self-expression in counseling, but I need it now. I need for her to come to me with heartfelt remorse, express love and commitment, and provide affection. She only provides these things if I come to her and tell her what I'm feeling and thinking. 

When I pull back and have bad feelings, she does nothing and I'm really starting to resent that. She was on the fence about continuing the marriage after I discovered her affair, and so was I, but I feel I have always been much more committed to this than her. She's very afraid to talk about things, and most of this is done in counseling. 

One time I told her I'm dealing with this on my own, and she said "I'm sorry you are feeling that way. Some things need to be processed internally. I can't erase the affair but I would take it back in a second. I'm sorry I cause you so much angst." 

Yeah she's sorry she caused it, but she does nothing to help it unless I explicitly state exactly what I need to hear. 

Should I drop hints or just tell her, "look I need these things, I'm not getting them. You can start giving them now if you want this to work."


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Since you chose to R with your wife, you need to be specific about what you need from her. Nobody can read another person's mind so you must tell her what you need from her and for her to be vigilant so that she can then give it to you without you resorting to tell her.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

I think you should just tell her what you need from her. It's part of good communication. She may not know what kind of support you need from her or even that she isn't giving it. It sounds like her personality and emotional disposition is different from yours and, as you're both healing, you guys are situated in different paradigms. You should definitely tell her what you need from her, in a calm, rational manner. And, you should ask her what she needs from you, too. If you're trying to reconcile, then you're trying to leave the affair in the past and build something new, not so much punish the WS or make the WS jump through mind-reading hoops; as communicating your needs might be the most direct way toward having them met, I'd be inclined to think that it doesn't contradict the heavy lifting that the WS is expected to do -- after all, you're just stating what you need and it is up to hear to lean to give it to you or to refuse. Don't just drop hints because they could be misinterpreted; take this time to IMPROVE your communication. Even if you're reluctant to be vulnerable to her, especially because you are doubting her love and commitment, you have to be willing to be vulnerable and so does she; otherwise, it's all an illusion of intimacy.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You have not told us details of the affair or how you found out so it is difficult for us to know what is really going on with her, but it looks like there is more going on than you know. Something is not right. You are doing the heavy lifting when she should be the one doing it. You are making it too easy. Your post at the beginning of the year said that you were not her best friend; the truth is you were and are nothing more to her than a roommate that pays the bills and helps her take care of the kids.

Your best chance at making this work is to walk away and see if she comes after you. If she does not, then is was over already, but now you both know it. 

Those that are cheated on often forget that their happiness matters too. Cheaters often feel that they are superior to those that they cheated on because they feel that they have options. Because of this they feel that they do not have to really work to get you back. The truth is they are the inferior ones. You are the one capable of being a good spouse and not them. If it does not work out, you will be the one that will have a better chance at finding happiness with someone else because you are capable of being content and they are not. It is time that you find happiness. You sound like a great person and someone is out there that will pray to God thankful that they found you.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

I know you are both right. I just needed to hear it. 

Desert-rose, you are very intuitive. My wife and I have very different personalities, dispositions, styles. She's light and fun, and I am more introspective and serious. I am in touch with my emotions, while she has never learned to really express hers or deal with heavy lifting. 

She's coming from a much different place - she had lost all love for me. Some of it is coming back, but time will tell. I will not compromise and live in a marriage that is not fully there with someone who is not fully into me, someone who cannot express feelings with words. I just don't know how much time to give this, to see if she can ever love fully. I'm taking it month by month and I'm seeing progress, but I don't know where she's at really. Even one-month ago (3 months after starting R) she was still feeling somewhat "numb" to all of this, to me.

Part of my challenge is that me showing vulnerability kind of turns her away. And heavy talk makes her pull back. She has work to do in counseling to be able to talk about anything deep. It disappoints me that she just wants to live "day to day" with normal interaction and no talking about my feelings or hers. Maybe this really is rugsweeping, I'm not sure. But I don't need to talk about the affair, just talk about feelings.

One reason we are even together is because of my stability, and I've lost a lot of that through this. I'm not superman, and I was practically destroyed. But I need and deserve a sensitive wife, one who isn't scared to see her husband's vulnerability and one who will do everything she can to help. I can't come back from this without more emotional support from her. I've told her this a couple of times, the first couple of months after Dday, but she said "I'm giving everything I can right now." She didn't have any genuine heartfelt things to say to me. She wasn't fully committed. All she could do was live day-to-day and interact normally, with nothing deep. She tells me she loves me occasionally, now, and shows it some. But it's not fully there. I guess I need to just be patient and see how this goes, but she has to meet my needs while doing this.

I need deep emotion now, but she might not have it and might not ever have it. I will not go without it forever, but I won't give her an ultimatum either. I will tell her what I need again, in a calm way, and see if she ever does those things. And, I will ask her what she needs.

I'm thankful for this forum and for the thoughtful people who reply with encouraging words. Most of all, it helps to express myself here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You dont mention if she has shown remorse at all. From your writing it sounds more like acceptance on her part to not have an affair as opposed to remorse for her decision to have one.

And yeah, it sounds like she wants to rug sweep and not do any work on the R or you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

well lets be frank. Your wife cheated on you. She has no remorse. She would take it back if she could. Not because of your pain, but because she now has to deal with the inconvenience of your feelings and the time it take to address them. Everything you are doing is driving her away. You are a high maintenance person (no insult, because I am too). You are simply to much work for her. Just divorce her cheating a$$.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

Here are the details of her PA, for those who asked. It's long.

About a year ago she started drifting away, and had an EA with someone online that lived far away. It went on for a couple months. After I discovered, she was very remorseful and felt awful, I tried to "fix" things by really getting closer, and it had the opposite effect. She moved further away emotionally. But she pretended not to. She cried to herself and to her friends that she had "checked out" and thought she married the wrong person (I didn't know this at the time). At that time I thought things were getting better but they were not, for her. 

She "faked" loving me for a few months after that, and then met someone at work. She worked closely with him, and they began flirting. Over a two month period, it evolved into a PA that lasted a month. She lied all along, came home and pretended to love me, we were intimate and kissed, hugged, everything. But she was in an affair, even before and after our 10 year anniversary when we went out of town together. Knife thru heart right there.

I discovered the affair by checking her email, because she "acted" well but there's no way to act a feeling I didn't get from her. I thought she might have been having another EA. I saw emails about meet-up times, sex talk from him, ugh. Trigger right now.

I left the house and was set on divorce. She ended her affair when it was discovered, but still tried to be "friends" with him. I told her I wanted a divorce, and she asked me to come back to "work things out." I came back to the house after being gone 3 weeks. The only reason I left instead of asking her to leave was because my daughter really needs her every day at home. 

She asked me to come back and try to R to keep the family intact, and that was the only reason why I did, for my kids, to give it a shot. But she didn't love me when I returned, far from it. We started counseling. She was incredibly withdrawn, and it was extremely painful to live like that. She wasn't mean or combative, but she had no remorse at all at first.

As counseling progressed over a couple of months, she finally started showing remorse and telling me she felt awful about it. She started showing some feeling, gradually, and we starting being intimate again. She told me she didn't really even like the guy, that it was just a fantasy escape, like a drug, "was looking for a thrill." 

Now she says she loves me sometimes, she shows it other times, but I don't really know. She is working in counseling on "living authentically" so I don't believe she will fake anything anymore, but I'm not sure. She sure as hell didn't fake any love when I returned to the house, for the first couple months. 

I need to confront her and ask about her "numbness" and what she really feels for me, along with telling her my needs. But I don't want to ruin Christmas for the kids, so I don't really want to hear it, if she has no love. I believe she has some, and we are getting back to having something, but you never know. We do have contact throughout the day every day, lots of texts, phone calls, lots of interaction at home, talking about our lives and future plans even.

I guess I will try my best to deal with this through the holidays, be the best person I can be, and see how it goes in January. 

Another thing is, I don't really see an option to "walk away and see if she comes to me." I'm not going to leave my house and go live in some apartment, giving her the comfort of our home while I'm out alone and still paying the mortgage. If she's not fully committed, after 6 or 7 months, and if she's still "numb" to me, my only option is to tell her I want a divorce. Is there another option to "walk away?" I don't know how to pull back and "walk away" without physically leaving. 

But I do know that on a couple of occasions, when I have happily expressed that I'm fine on my own or I act totally independent but still present, she comes to me like a magnet. But that seems like just a game.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow. Why did she want to R then? Only to have your paycheck and help with the kids? I'm not trying to be nasty, it just doesn't seem like she wants in anyway to be with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

I guess since she had the affair, she didn't want to be the one to initiate the Divorce. Probably wanted me to do it.

But also, she never really wanted a divorce. And she recently said she never wanted to have an affair. She wants to want to be with me, if that makes sense. She wants to have strong feelings for me. She's trying to get the love back. 

I did a lot of things to drive the feelings away, and I've corrected those things through counseling and my own effort. She didn't feel like an equal partner. I was controlling, and it pushed her away. I'm not like this anymore. Maybe I don't even want her back after all of this. It's confusing. I'm just going to be a better me and see what happens. 

Even if we divorce, I will have learned to be an equal partner and make compromises, and never take for granted any relationship again.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> She asked me to come back and try to R to keep the family intact, and that was the *only reason *why I did, for my kids, to give it a shot.


Although well intentioned, I don't think this is the right reason to R. It only brings resentment and animosity to the relationship.



> I guess since she had the affair, she didn't want to be the one to initiate the Divorce. Probably wanted me to do it.


She's doing this so _YOU'LL_ be the one who ends it. Then, she can say _SHE_ tried to make it work, but it was you who opted out. 

I guess to sum it all up, you want her to be more pro-active when it comes to your healing. You want sincere effort, without it being forced.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

sirwonder said:


> But I do know that on a couple of occasions, when I have happily expressed that I'm fine on my own or I act totally independent but still present, she comes to me like a magnet. But that seems like just a game.


Amazing isn't it. My ex-wife begged on her hands and knees for me not to divorce her. It seems that when a betrayed husband is more than willing to walk away from the marriage, the cheating wife suddenly feels drawn to her husband. Confidence in ones future is a very powerful attractant.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

"She didn't really want the affair".....Oh please. What this means is that she didn't really want to get found out that she was screwing her lover and putting her husband at risk for STD's behind his back.

"She doesn't really want a divorce"....Oh double please. What this means is that she does not want to change her lifestyle and wants to continue having your paycheck with hers and not end up being a single mom.

I am sorry my friend but you are being played. If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so accepting as you have been? Her actions and words show that she does not respect you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

bryanp said:


> "Her actions and words show that she does not respect you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


Can you clarify what actions and words, right now, make you think that she doesn't respect me now? Maybe you are right, just wanted to see what prompted you to say that.

Even though some comments are a bit harsh, I value all opinions here. It's hard for other people to make judgements though, when they aren't living what I'm living.


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## Blindasabat (Nov 29, 2011)

sirwonder said:


> Here are the details of her PA, for those who asked. It's long.
> 
> About a year ago she started drifting away, and had an EA with someone online that lived far away. It went on for a couple months. After I discovered, she was very remorseful and felt awful, I tried to "fix" things by really getting closer, and it had the opposite effect. She moved further away emotionally. But she pretended not to. She cried to herself and to her friends that she had "checked out" and thought she married the wrong person (I didn't know this at the time). At that time I thought things were getting better but they were not, for her.
> 
> ...


wow this is so much like my situation that if I went the R road how could I know what's real becuase she has been acting for so long I don't feel love from her when she says its more like fear and testing my response. only recently I've become an actor too I don't know what I feel other than angry, betrayed, depressed, bewildered but not able to show that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Hello again.

When she said that she really didn't want the affair she is not stepping up and taking responsibility for her actions. She is twisting it so somehow she is the victim in this because she really didn't want the affair.

Rereading your post I realize that she did not have a sexual affair which is really a positive. I do hope that she wants to seriously be with you and not to remain married for fear of any change in her lifestyle. I strongly suggest counseling.

I think my words of disrespect were clearly to harsh since I thought she had a sexual affair and I apologize for that. Again only counseling will deal with her numbness and the state of your marriage. I think giving it 6 months is very fair for the both of you. Both of you have to honestly fully commit or it simply will not work. Good luck.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bryanp said:


> Rereading your post I realize that she did not have a sexual affair which is really a positive.


:scratchhead:

Maybe you need to read this



> Here are the details of her PA, for those who asked. It's long.
> 
> About a year ago she started drifting away, and had an EA with someone online that lived far away. It went on for a couple months. After I discovered, she was very remorseful and felt awful, I tried to "fix" things by really getting closer, and it had the opposite effect. She moved further away emotionally. But she pretended not to. She cried to herself and to her friends that she had "checked out" and thought she married the wrong person (I didn't know this at the time). At that time I thought things were getting better but they were not, for her.
> 
> She "faked" loving me for a few months after that, and then met someone at work. She worked closely with him, and they began flirting. *Over a two month period, it evolved into a PA that lasted a month*. She lied all along, came home and pretended to love me, we were intimate and kissed, hugged, everything. But she was in an affair, even before and after our 10 year anniversary when we went out of town together. Knife thru heart right there.


Kissing, groping or any other 'making out' IS sexual in nature even if there was no sexual intercourse.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

It was a full-on sexual affair in the summer that she had.

We had a long talk last night. I started out by describing exactly how I didn't meet her needs in the relationship before, before she "checkout out" and had her affair. I remembered everything I wasn't doing to meet her needs. She said I am doing everything now, I've fixed all my issues, and all her needs are being met now.

Then I transitioned into my needs for healing, explaining that if my needs aren't met now, while I'm trying to get past all the sh**t...if she does not have genuine remorse, love, authentic feelings, and can't express them, then I will not be in this relationship. I know what is genuine and what is not. She can't fake it. I even knew it before, in the summer, but I just pretended that all was ok, fooling myself.

The thing that really hit home for her was I asked her to put herself in my shoes. I described a recent family day that we had, decorating the tree, drinking wine, having a good time. I asked her to imagine that in the middle of that great family bonding time, I left to "go to the store" but instead, I went and had sex with someone else. Then came home and continued family time and then was intimate with her that night. I said "that's what I'm trying to come back from, to heal from, and I'm not back yet." This really hit home because she did this on the fourth of July, and I brought that up. She felt my pain, she really did, she had genuine empathy. She knows just how bad it was and feels it.

I am preparing myself for divorce, in my mind, but I will continue this for awhile longer and see if I can ever heal from everything she has done to me. Maybe I can, maybe not. Maybe I don't even want to.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Part of my challenge is that me showing vulnerability kind of turns her away. And heavy talk makes her pull back


This quote struck me hard. Who is the betrayed one here? Who should accommodate whom? Who is the one suffering the most through the pain of betrayal? What else is she doing to make you better. Cheaters who continue to lie and cheat after the D-Day are the worst. You will never be able to trust her. Maybe she just got better at acting. Or she is doing it for temporary convenience. How can you have peace of mind living with someone like her? Is this the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? Is this true R ? I don't know.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

sirwonder said:


> It was a full-on sexual affair in the summer that she had.
> 
> We had a long talk last night. I started out by describing exactly how I didn't meet her needs in the relationship before, before she "checkout out" and had her affair. I remembered everything I wasn't doing to meet her needs. She said I am doing everything now, I've fixed all my issues, and all her needs are being met now.
> 
> ...


Good job. But remember that she also felt 'remorse' right after you caught her in her first EA and she still went to have another one which turned into a PA. She needs to go to IC (individual counseling) because she has poor coping mechanisms as well as poor enforcement of boundaries. Until she becomes well enough to choose to end the marriage before she goes and has another affair, your marriage to her should be on probation.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

morituri said:


> Good job. But remember that she also felt 'remorse' right after you caught her in her first EA and she still went to have another one which turned into a PA. She needs to go to IC (individual counseling) because she has poor coping mechanisms as well as poor enforcement of boundaries. Until she becomes well enough to choose to end the marriage before she goes and has another affair, your marriage to her should be on probation.


Good points. She has been going to IC often and likes it a lot, and we also go to MC to that same counselor. She has made strides in her own personal development. This gives me hope and some trust that she will no longer need to escape to an affair fantasy world for faux happiness and validation.

She needed counseling after the first EA and realizes that now. We both needed it, and that might have prevented the PA that happened later. Wish I could go back in time and do that.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think you're making the right move by playing it slow. Let your wife know what you need to heal and that you want to reconcile, but be prepared to move on if that's needed. Not that I would wish that on you, but it's always a possibility.

In my case my wife showed true remorse and has been very dedicated to the healing process. BUT I had/have to be very clear what my needs are if I'm having a rough time. Remember your wife is hurting too. My wife says, "It's like I shot you in the head and caused traumatic brain injury." Imagine that, your wife CAUSED you pain and she sees it in your eyes. The last thing she wants to do is bring it up and talk about it. That is the plight of the wayward spouse.

If you are working to reconciliation, be patient with her as you express your needs. This is a long journey. Acknowledge if she is making progress, and use lots of positive reinforcement. It's easy if you're the WS to feel like no matter how much you're working on the marriage, that it's not good enough, because there's still pain. Don't let slow progress keep you from having a long-term happy marriage, as long as progress is being made.

As the BS it's easy to feel like you shouldn't have to do anything and that your spouse should just "get it" and be working 24/7 on making us feel better, but that is not realistic nor healthy. Both of you are hurting, and both of you need to be patient with eachother as you work together rebuilding your marriage.

This is of course, assuming she is truly remorseful and committed to the marriage. Not knowing more details I can't really ascertain that for you.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

COguy said:


> I think you're making the right move by playing it slow. Let your wife know what you need to heal and that you want to reconcile, but be prepared to move on if that's needed. Not that I would wish that on you, but it's always a possibility.
> 
> In my case my wife showed true remorse and has been very dedicated to the healing process. BUT I had/have to be very clear what my needs are if I'm having a rough time. Remember your wife is hurting too. My wife says, "It's like I shot you in the head and caused traumatic brain injury." Imagine that, your wife CAUSED you pain and she sees it in your eyes. The last thing she wants to do is bring it up and talk about it. That is the plight of the wayward spouse.
> 
> ...


Wow. That is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten, and a new way for me to look at it. Thank you. 

Can you give me an example of "acknowledge if she is making progress" and "positive reinforcement?" What kinds of things do you say to your wife or how do you reach out to her with such compassion for what she's going through? 

I don't really know what my wife is going through, but I need to know. Like I mentioned in previous posts, she has trouble expressing herself. She talks a lot, just nothing deep. Her innermost thoughts and feelings are often a mystery. She's working on this in counseling.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

sirwonder said:


> She wants to want to be with me, if that makes sense. She wants to have strong feelings for me. She's trying to get the love back.
> 
> She didn't feel like an equal partner. I was controlling, and it pushed her away. I'm not like this anymore.


This is an important bit, in my opinion.

She handled a problem with immaturity and selfishness. She didn't love the guy, but was looking for a thrill. That could explain part of her feelings. She could be holding on to whatever resentment led her to start the affair in the first place.

I'm not justifying her behavior; it wasn't right. However, as you seem to be trying to understand and deal with these emotional issues, why not consider this angle?

If you were controlling and didn't treat her as an equal in the partnership, then in some ways, this secret fantasy escape relationship was about rebelling and getting some control back for herself. A stupid choice, yes, but it brings up part of why she might be closed off and not remorseful. If she did this as a way of feeling in control again and it didn't work, then she's probably feeling doubly bad because not only did she not get any control but she put herself in an even lower position in terms of control or power in the relationship. How can she show remorse when she doesn't even feel like she's on equal footing? That's just what I think. Problematic power dynamics really do throw a wrench in the works.

I don't think she should have cheated on you and I do think she should have been remorseful that she did so, but this seems to indicate that there is some other kind of barrier here that is preventing real connection. It is possible that, while you have changed and addressed your controlling behavior, the wounds that the behavior gave her haven't yet healed and so her behavior is coming from a place of fear and defensiveness rather than authenticity? Does she have a history of being dominated or bullied or pushed down emotionally? Has she dealt with the feeling of not being an equal?

I ask about this connection not to imply that her cheating was your fault (it was NOT; SHE behaved badly), but simply to suggest a new angle that you might be able to explore in looking at your relationship and repairing it. 

Maybe you can bring up the control thing with her or in counseling and see if it resonates with her? Be careful though, you don't want to give her an excuse to justify her behavior if she isn't being sincere. Just see if she's got some feelings about the power dynamics in your relationship and her emotional needs.

Hang in there. It sounds like you care about her a lot. See if you can uncover what is blocking her from being open and expressive about her love, from being vulnerable with you.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

sirwonder said:


> Wow. That is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten, and a new way for me to look at it. Thank you.
> 
> Can you give me an example of "acknowledge if she is making progress" and "positive reinforcement?" What kinds of things do you say to your wife or how do you reach out to her with such compassion for what she's going through?
> 
> I don't really know what my wife is going through, but I need to know. Like I mentioned in previous posts, she has trouble expressing herself. She talks a lot, just nothing deep. Her innermost thoughts and feelings are often a mystery. She's working on this in counseling.


Well for example, up to D-day my wife had this pattern of talking to me extremely disrespectfully. Years of feeling emotionally rejected had left her pretty bitter and resentful of me. I made it clear that I wouldn't accept her to treat me like that anymore, and started calling her on it when she would say something disrespectful. An example would be if she asked me to change a diaper and I told her I couldn't because I was busy. That was a trigger for her because I used to not help her around the house very much. So some time ago something like that happened and she got really pissed off and acted like a real jerk to me. We didn't talk for 2 days until she apologized. We talked about it in counseling, how her default attitude was just to act disrespectful towards me and not want to apologize because she felt justified because I was a jerk for so long. She understood that it was the wrong attitude and really agreed to work on it.

Fast forward to a few days later, same issue came up and low and behold, she got pissed again. But this time, later that night she came and apologized to me. I let her know that I was upset she acted like that, but I really appreciated that she worked it out with me that night instead of dragging it out for a few days.

A few days later, we had almost the exact same situation AGAIN. But this time, for the first time in our marriage, my wife came up to me like 15 minutes later and said, "Honey I was being rude and I'm really sorry." And she gave me a big kiss.

Now I could have gotten pissed off that she got angry in the first place, but I was so relieved that my wife was making PROGRESS. I just told her how awesome it was that she could apologize so quickly and let her know how it made living at home so much more peaceful if I know we can resolve stuff like that quickly instead of sitting on it all day. She had the biggest grin on her face and really felt encouraged that she was making progress. She's treating me alot better since then, and if we fight now it's pretty normal for either of us to apologize within a few minutes instead of stewing on it and ruining our day.

I chose that one example because it shows a clear progression and progress, but there's been a lot of stuff like that from both our sides. My wife still gets defensive sometimes when I ask her about the affair or bring something up. But she gets better about being understanding. Just today I told her how much I appreciated her being open about the affair and willing to take questions and working so hard on our marriage. It makes her more open in the future, vs the first few days when I just got pissed off and she had no hope that things would get better.

For instance, my wife did so many things right after d-day, but for the first 2 weeks I had a lot of "bad" days. She would say stuff like, "I feel discouraged because no matter how hard I try, it's not going to help." If I just told her to suck it up, it would have been easy for her to give up or go into depression. I had to make a real concerted effort to tell her that her actions were making it easier for me to have good days, and that I was very appreciative of how she was working to meet my needs. Acknowledging that her efforts were having an effect on me gave her motivation to keep working at it.

You're a betrayed spouse, but you're still a spouse to a woman with feelings. You have a right to be angry, but if you want a happy marriage, you also need to be supporting and loving to your wife. Just being honest about what you're going through can allow you to be both at the same time. I just wrote in another thread about how I just worked on being honest with my wife about my feelings. "Hey honey I'm feeling really angry today about what happened, I could really use some extra patience and reassurance." It allows me to share my feelings, deal with my anger, and show my wife that I still love her and care about her all at the same time.

Like I said, reconciling after an affair is HARD. It takes work from both parties. It's not easy for anyone involved. But the end result can be something awesome if both people are committed to it. Just like any good husband, work to really listen to your wife, especially at counseling. Don't listen to her words, that is something that we guys mistakenly do. Listen to the message her words are conveying. You know you're really listening when you don't try to come up with something to say in response.

Without knowing more about your situation or your wife, I can't tell you where your wife is at. But if she's empathetic of the pain she caused, she's still at home, and she's going to counseling with you while working on stuff, that's all a good sign that in her heart she wants to reconcile. Give her the benefit of the doubt while you work together.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

desert-rose said:


> If you were controlling and didn't treat her as an equal in the partnership, then in some ways, this secret fantasy escape relationship was about rebelling and getting some control back for herself. A stupid choice, yes, but it brings up part of why she might be closed off and not remorseful.
> 
> It is possible that, while you have changed and addressed your controlling behavior, the wounds that the behavior gave her haven't yet healed and so her behavior is coming from a place of fear and defensiveness rather than authenticity?


This is spot on. This issue has come up many times, my controlling behavior, and it is totally valid. We even joke sometimes about the "old me" would object to this or that right now, in day-to-day decision making. She may not be totally healed from my behavior in the past, and she is just starting to realize that the "new me" is here to stay, I am authentic. 

She has shown some remorse, just not enough for me right now. I need to wait and see how this goes, see if she really is into the new me, without my old flaws. 

You are very observant. It's very impressive to see someone else have insight that is totally correct, even though you don't know me or her, only what I've described. Thank you.


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## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

COguy said:


> My wife did so many things right after d-day, but for the first 2 weeks I had a lot of "bad" days. She would say stuff like, "I feel discouraged because no matter how hard I try, it's not going to help." If I just told her to suck it up, it would have been easy for her to give up or go into depression. I had to make a real concerted effort to tell her that her actions were making it easier for me to have good days, and that I was very appreciative of how she was working to meet my needs. Acknowledging that her efforts were having an effect on me gave her motivation to keep working at it.
> 
> You're a betrayed spouse, but you're still a spouse to a woman with feelings. You have a right to be angry, but if you want a happy marriage, you also need to be supporting and loving to your wife. Just being honest about what you're going through can allow you to be both at the same time. I just wrote in another thread about how I just worked on being honest with my wife about my feelings. "Hey honey I'm feeling really angry today about what happened, I could really use some extra patience and reassurance." It allows me to share my feelings, deal with my anger, and show my wife that I still love her and care about her all at the same time.
> 
> Without knowing more about your situation or your wife, I can't tell you where your wife is at. But if she's empathetic of the pain she caused, she's still at home, and she's going to counseling with you while working on stuff, that's all a good sign that in her heart she wants to reconcile. Give her the benefit of the doubt while you work together.


Thank you for sharing all of your personal stories and experiences. The quotes above really hit home with me. I never thought of just saying "I'm feeling really angry today, and I would appreciate some extra patience and reassurance." 

And you're right, even if she's not totally "there yet" I need to give her the benefit of the doubt.

What I still struggle with is showing neediness and vulnerability, coming forward with "I need some extra reassurance." I did this the other night, but I still think she sees this as weakness. I know that's sad. I was always the strong one in the relationship. Now I'm the hurt one. Being an injured fawn and needing constant reassurance is not exactly something that's attractive to her. That sounds ridiculous, I know, but it's how I feel, and it might be right, sadly. I don't even really want a wife like that anyway, so maybe I'm going through all of this for nothing. My only hope is that she can change with counseling. It takes time, but maybe she will become a person who fulfills my needs, a woman who can express herself and doesn't feel threatened or turned off by a man who is capable of expressing deep feelings and vulnerability.

She caused massive damage to me so I should expect her to help fix some of it. But I have to balance the "I need your help" with "I can handle this." Do you get that? She is still not ready or able to really pick me up and console me very much. I need to be confident on my own to really get her respect. It's not that she's totally insensitive, it's just that she's hurt too, she messed up real bad and knows it, and she probably looks to me for some reassurance as well, just like she's done for the last ten years of our marriage. It's pretty hard to just switch roles after this.

In your case, it seems like, from what you described, that your wife is somewhat of a dominant wife. She's used to that role, and she's doing work that is not that foreign to someone who's more dominant. Mine is the opposite...a wife with little self-esteem and one that always took the backseat to my wants and needs. She went and got her "revenge" for not being equal, and now it's difficult for her to become a healer, a leader in this rebuilding process, to take charge and do any heavy lifting.

Man this is so complicated. Everyone is different. Everyone has a different situation that is unique and there is no easy solution to repairing a marriage when no two marriages are alike.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Nope it's the exact opposite. My wife is extremely submissive, very low self-esteem. I think alot of our marriage problems came from me trying to protect her. Alot of times I didn't share when I was hurt or upset because I didn't want her to feel worse about herself. So I bottled it up and didn't express my real feelings.

Yeah it's a logical thing to do but it kills a marriage. To my wife, it made her think I was cold to her, like some sort of robot. Of course, I did a complete 180 and probably went to far in the other direction. It's ok, I'm working on finding the balance somewhere between the two extremes.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're in the right place. You're recognizing the part you have to play and that you're dealing with emotions that are foreign to you. Recognizing it is the important part, you can't fix something until you recognize it first.

Don't expect to be Mr. Tough Guy. Any man who could go through an affair without feeling sad or upset is not going to make a good husband. My boss, who is the epitome of Alpha Male, cried like a little girl when his wife left him for another guy. Don't worry about being attractive to her right now. Don't worry about being vulnerable. Your wounds are too fresh to try and "keep it together."

I also disagree you need your wife to be the leader in the process. Just because you are the hurt party doesn't mean you have to wait on her to help you. You can take charge in the situation by telling her what you need to heal and encouraging her (positively) to help you. I'm not trying to pretend I have it all together, but I had a lot of experience with this in my situation. My wife would love to have just forgotten about what happened and just move on. I really had/have to work with her to tell her what I need. Counseling really helped. A lot of times my wife would be kind of resistant and defensive and didn't really open up and relax until we talked about it with the counselor.

You're in the right place, you have the right attitude, you just need some time to see the fruits of your hard work. Consider that you had to lose 50 pounds. You started eating right and working out, you're losing weight and feeling better every day but you're not going to wake up in the morning with a six pack.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Read this letter,and then print it.

If it makes sense let your wife read it

Here is the link

Rick's Letter


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