# Opinions- Sex in marriage



## NLoc17 (Jan 15, 2016)

Hello, 

My wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 in the next couple months. We have two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life. I have a good sex drive and could easily go 3-4 times a week, my wife could easily go a lot longer without, not a test i wanna take. This leads to me having to plan, oversee and initiate the act, which more than half the time is met with annoyance or a time limit, which I hate. It's at the point where these actions completely put me out of the mood. I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time. We wind up having sex about 3-4 times a month, which 90% of the time ends with both of us satisfied. This is not even my complaint although it's not my ideal situation even after compromisg. My biggest issue is that even after our talks she makes no attempts to be interested in me, surprise me with lingerie or invite me to her shower...anything. I'm just tired of not seeing any affection or interest from my wife and above all the lack of effort to try and make me happy sucks. I don't want this to go on for the rest of our sexable lives. I completely understand she does have long days and a higher than normal stress job but does that mean I have to suffer, that no compromise or sacrifice has to be made on her part? I'm compromising already by not bothering her every night about having sex, by not letting my emotions take over when the plan was to have sex but she fell asleep again. Am I crazy?


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Well, I think getting invited into the shower is overrated, and why wear lingerie when I am just going to tear it off 

At face value it sounds like a drive mismatch. Has it always been this way or is it something that has gotten more noticeable over time.

90% of the time, the other 10% who is not satisfied?

I can definitely understand why having to plan, oversee, etc... would be a big mood killer. As far as things at home, I assume you both work, are you both contributing to the household? Have you spoken to your wife to see if there is anything at home that she maybe feels like she needs extra help with that might allow her to destress a little better?


----------



## Kelly:( (Jan 15, 2016)

I think your wife has some feelings that she isn't sharing with you. For instance I myself (a woman) don't feel sexual if I'm unhappy or depressed and sometimes it is because of my husband and other times because of unhappiness in our various different roles I.e. Mother, employee or boss, as a sibling or child etc. so I recommend couples counseling if attempts to discuss and listen to each other's deep down personal feelings leads to more misunderstanding and arguments. I hope this might help.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Are there things you can do to lower her stress level at home? If you are an equal partner (or more) when it comes to chores and the children, then there is little more you can do except encourage her to find a less stressful job. Of course, that MAY not fix things in the slightest, if the stress is just an excuse to avoid intimacy because she simply has a lower drive than you. If that's the case, there may not be much you can do.

My ex was even worse than your wife - though yours may get worse with time, as is often the case. I finally divorced my ex and found a woman who had a comparable libido - and was more compatible in other ways, too. It's never a good think to have to contemplate such extreme measures, but you may end up doing so eventually if nothing changes. Odds are, nothing will.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

No you aren't crazy but nothing has changed in 8 years after talking to her about it do you really think things will change now? Have you invited her into your shower? Maybe she likes to shower alone. I prefer to shower alone and so does my husband. I don't get the big attraction with lingerie, you never hear women talk about what their husbands wear to bed, and odds are either they wear nothing or a pair of old shirts or sweatpants. I'm sure she is nude in bed when you have sex so isn't that better than her wearing lingerie? She doesn't place having sex as important as you do which is why she doesnt initiate sex. She is happy with once a week. You have no choice but to accept that in this marriage. You can't force someone to have sex.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You have no choice but to accept that in this marriage.


Of course he has another choice. Leave.

I'm not saying that it's the right choice, but it's a choice.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> No you aren't crazy but nothing has changed in 8 years after talking to her about it do you really think things will change now? Have you invited her into your shower? Maybe she likes to shower alone. I prefer to shower alone and so does my husband. I don't get the big attraction with lingerie, you never hear women talk about what their husbands wear to bed, and odds are either they wear nothing or a pair of old shirts or sweatpants. I'm sure she is nude in bed when you have sex so isn't that better than her wearing lingerie? She doesn't place having sex as important as you do which is why she doesnt initiate sex. She is happy with once a week. You have no choice but to accept that in this marriage. You can't force someone to have sex.


Just a point about lingerie...in a lot of cases, it's not about the lingerie in particular, rather it is an outward sign, an action that shows an active interest. It is sending a message that says I am engaged, attracted, and care enough to actually DO something.

Isn't that essentially what the OP, and many other posters with this same issue are really looking for? Wanting some sort of action, some sort of indication and sign from their spouse that they desire them, and want to have sex with them?


----------



## almostm (Jan 14, 2016)

I am this same woman. Not to be funny but I avoid the subject at all cost. My fiance is very attractive but his behavior turns me off in every way. I dont know your situation in this way but try helping around the house, and cooking her dinner. Try to do something romantic for her. I know I was turned off by how selfish my other half is about sex and well life. He requests pictures, and that I wear sexy lingerie. But I want to wear these things or send you pictures because I love him not because he demands them. Make sure she feels sexy and important. Take her on a romantic outting, get her a new purse and fill it with roses have it delivered to her job. Send her to the spa. Ive tried to explain this to my other half and just nothing. But I almost jumped a man at the gym naked just for holding a conversation with me, poor guy didnt even know but he had me hotter than my workout did. How a woman feels is everything. Good luck!


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Of course he has another choice. Leave.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's the right choice, but it's a choice.


I said in this marriage, I didn't say in his life. Of course he could leave but he is getting sex, and he has a great marriage and family life so why would he leave over her not initiating, inviting him in the shower and not wearing lingerie? Seems petty to me. If his overall marriage is happy then he should concentrate on that and not the negatives. It's not like he has gone months without sex. He would like more sex, she would be fine with less sex so you compromise with once a week. That's what you do in a marriage. Compromise


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Happilymarried25 said:


> He would like more sex, she would be fine with less sex so you compromise with once a week. That's what you do in a marriage. Compromise


Funny how the compromise from his 4x a week to her 1x a week is 1x a week, and not 2x or 3x.

The compromise is almost always to the partner with the least desire. So, is there really compromise, or not?


----------



## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

Almostm I don't think it's selfish to want sex. Men produce sperm 24/7 whereas we are only fertile certain times of the month. If I wanted to have sex during a fertile time and I were rejected I'd be PISSED because I want it like crazy. Lucky for me that doesn't happen, but you might want to consider that. I think it would be extremely frustrating to be wanting a physical connection and a physiological release and being turned down repeatedly. 

That being said this woman may be like you and want to be romanced a bit to get in the mood. It certainly can't hurt. In my marriage whenever I'm upset with my husband I get the best results when I change my own attitudes and actions.


----------



## MichelleR (Jan 6, 2016)

Actually almostm I might have read your post wrong. Sorry about that if I did. I see you were referring more to the actions he wants you to take and his perhaps selfish acts in other ways as well. Sorry if I offended you or posted too soon.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

NLoc17 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 in the next couple months. We have two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life. I have a good sex drive and could easily go 3-4 times a week, my wife could easily go a lot longer without, not a test i wanna take. This leads to me having to plan, oversee and initiate the act, which more than half the time is met with annoyance or a time limit, which I hate. It's at the point where these actions completely put me out of the mood. I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time. We wind up having sex about 3-4 times a month, which 90% of the time ends with both of us satisfied. This is not even my complaint although it's not my ideal situation even after compromisg. *My biggest issue is that even after our talks she makes no attempts to be interested in me, surprise me with lingerie or invite me to her shower...anything.* *I'm just tired of not seeing any affection or interest from my wife and above all the lack of effort to try and make me happy sucks.* I don't want this to go on for the rest of our sexable lives. I completely understand she does have long days and a higher than normal stress job but does that mean I have to suffer, that no compromise or sacrifice has to be made on her part? *I'm compromising already by not bothering her every night about having sex, by not letting my emotions take over when the plan was to have sex but she fell asleep again. *Am I crazy?


It appears that you are (mostly) focused on YOUR needs, not the needs of the two of you as a couple. Like most men, you are equating sex = intimacy/affection, while your wife might need more non-sexual intimacy. And if she is not getting that, then her interest in sex will be lower. 

Anyway, in most cases, your sex life will continue to (sharply) decline the longer you are married. If you are one of lucky ones to counter that trend, good for you. 

This is not a logical situation. To say that you will accept X amount of sex even though you used to get twice that before, that argument will not persuade your wife. This is not a business negotiation. You want sex. But really think about WHY you want more sex with your wife, other than the immediate pleasure. Is having sex the way your think your wife shows her affection for you? Find out what you WIFE NEEDS and make sure she gets that. Good luck.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Get pissed off and have a big argument every once in a while. l'm serious.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Less than once a week (when it is once a week max it is less than once a week) is not a compromise for a normal male. It may be the least she can get away with but not a compromise, hard to understand for some women but there it is.


----------



## almostm (Jan 14, 2016)

Sex drive may go down over time but if it stops something is wrong. Very wrong. And that should be the focus. Not negotiating like she is a object to be sold. When you fix the real problem, the sex issue will get resolved as well.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

This is a very common problem and very rarely truly solved. And it is virtually never solved if the spouse isn't also involved. 

The core issue is that your sex drive exists on it's own (like hunger). You don't need a reason to feel like having sex just like you don't need a reason to feel hungry. If you're alive, you feel like eating.

She, on the other hand, does not have the same type of urge for sex. Her urge can go completely away for a lot of complex reasons. Her drive for sex is like going to a play. She wants to go to a play if it's a play she really likes, and she's not too busy, and the tickets aren't too expensive, and the theater is close, and there's no traffic getting to the theater, and her friends are going, and etc and etc. When she goes she has a great time, but it's not like she craves going to plays on a regular basis.

This is quite common and normal. It won't do any good to stamp your feet and be frustrated. Take the information and find a solution.

Initially, stop asking for sex for a week or two so that the pressure is off. Take care of yourself if you need. Make an effort to make her feel more loved and special. After a couple of weeks, talk to her that sex is a critical and necessary part of a marriage. Don't expect her to become a sex kitten. That may never happen. But what may happen is that she has sex with you because she loves you and wants you to be happy. That may be all she can offer. You can't force her to feel sexual feelings. But if you make her feel loved, she'll be more likely to have sex because she wants to reciprocate that love. 

One thing that may make it easier for the two of you is to have scheduled sex 1x/week. This way both of you know when it is. You won't be thinking "maybe it will happen today" every day. She'll know that she needs to clear her calendar so she'll be relaxed that day. 

If you schedule it, consider this: Saturday mornings you get up early and take the kids to day care. She gets to sleep in or read a book or take a bath or whatever she wants. On the way back you pick up something for breakfast or you make breakfast while she's doing whatever she wants. During breakfast you actively listen to her and engage her. Try to keep the conversations light and fun. Go for some light, harmless touching. Clean up the dishes and then wordlessly take her hand to the bedroom. Just do light foreplay so she doesn't feel pressured right away. Try to read her to know how to proceed. Some days nothing might happen. The more you're okay with that, the more relaxed she'll feel and likely it won't happen too often. At first she may feel apprehensive or foolish, but after a while she might start to look forward to this special time and it *may* happen at other times as well.

Truly understand that she may feel like a failure and less of a woman because she doesn't want sex. She likely knows that not having sex will harm her marriage and it likely scares her. Don't make her feel more like a failure when discussing this issue. Don't berate her for not living up to your expectations. If she loves you she'll do all she can for you, but that may be less than what you're asking for.


----------



## NLoc17 (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for all the responses, and yes, I contribute very equally with household stuff. To straighten a few things out, it's not about inviting me in the shower or wearing lingerie as much as it is what they symbolize. It could be as much as rolling over in bed and starting to kiss me...I would take that. Keeping in mind that my wife said "if you want me to wear lingerie, then buy it for me". So I did. And yes, once a week is not the end of the world, but I'm tired of having to almost beg just to get that. Whether or not this sounds corny, it doesn't feel good to think that the person you love and are attracted to you might not feel the same way. Someone mentioned compromise in a marriage, it goes both ways. Maybe I could do more to help out the situation, but bottom line is we talk about this issue, have argued about this issue and the only one who seems to try and do things different is me. It's hard to want to try and do even more, when you're not seeing anything in return. If I'm willing to compromise/sacrifice my natural born human nature urges, i should be able to expect something in return. Masturbation is not the same thing, ladies please don't think it is.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Curious, what would happen if you just stopped initiating? Do you think your W would just go without sex?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

NLoc17 said:


> ....wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 ...two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life.
> 
> ...I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time.
> 
> ...


Wow! You understand she is tired and stress and yet you expect her to seduce you weekly with 2 small kids in the house? OK.

First since you have a thing on "compromise," David Schnarch likes to say that there is no right amount of sex in a marriage. That all aspects of marriage are a compromise and all involve and LD and HD component. His most famous example is one partner loves ice cream for dinner every night. Their spouse hates ice cream. Is there a right amount of ice cream to have each week? NO. 

What if one partner still craves ice cream but their spouse won't give it to them, should they be free to sneak out during lunch for an quick ice cream cone? My favorite is one partner like to watch Football on TV maybe three times a week and the other likes to watch the Super Bowl once a year and only for the commercials. Is there a right amount of Football watching in a marriage? No. 

Schnarch says that marriage is hard work, especially because it requires two people at different levels of emotional maturity (who are hopefully constantly growing in that maturity) to be constantly renegotiating what is acceptable within the marriage.

Now shifting to the she never initiates or seduces me.

If you have read (and you should) Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy, you should understand that looking to your wife for sexual/emotional validation isn't sexy. In fact it is sort of co-dependent and that isn't a good thing.

Glover would advise you to start filling your life with things that make you happy, whether it is fishing, hunting, golfing, bowling, taking your kids to a park and walking with them, taking them to swimming lessons, skiing or whatever. Glover would tell you by putting more happiness in your life (what he calls Getting A Life, GAL) and being less clingy and dependent on your wife, you will become a sexier and more desirable person to your wife.

If you bring happiness to your life you will not be suffering while you wait for your wife's attention. 

You need to take responsibility for your own happiness. Yes your wife can do things to make you happy, to make you feel loved and cherished, but you can't demand those things. Life doesn't work that way. 

My advice to you it that you need to drop any anger toward your wife. Forgive her for having a stressful job. Then apologize to her for being upset, clingy, and needy (and mean it.) Once that happens do some GAL stuff and take some responsibility for being happy. Take up some added chores or responsibilities around the house, not because you expect anything in return, but because you wife if tired and has a stressful job (no covert contracts to use Glover's phrase). Then love your wife and kids unconditionally and make them all feel loved and cherished. 

You just might find your wife will start to love you again the way she use to.

You really need to read Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. It is not about becoming a jerk, it is about becoming an integrated, fascinating man that women love to be with and married to. Good luck.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

almostm said:


> Sex drive may go down over time but if it stops something is wrong. Very wrong. And that should be the focus. Not negotiating like she is a object to be sold. When you fix the real problem, the sex issue will get resolved as well.


I agree. Except when a woman in naturally low drive and there *is* nothing to fix! Then nothing will work, but she may still say there is something to fix - my ex was like that, but she's just naturally LD, and is the same with her new husband.


----------



## NLoc17 (Jan 15, 2016)

I think she would, she would also know that's very uncharacteristic of me. But lets say our sex drives were equal it could easily be months before the subject was brought up. It's way different when you know the person wants to have sex and are saying "No, I'm to tired". I'm sure it would be different if I wasn't interested at all and she felt I wasn't attracted to her anymore.


----------



## NLoc17 (Jan 15, 2016)

Thank you, Young At Heart, i appreciate your comments. I would like to clear up one thing though. I don't expect my wife to seduce me once a week, I would like her to do it once in a while, just to show that she's heard me and she trying. I'm fine with doing the man stuff the other times. Take a look at the article below, I'm not saying it's 100% but it sure did hit home.

But honestly thank you for your comments, it gives another perspective to consider.

5 Reasons Why Women Shouldn?t Deprive their Man of Sex - The Feminine Woman ? Femininity - Dating & Relationship Advice for Women - The Feminine Woman


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

NLoc17 said:


> ... and yes, I contribute very equally with household stuff.
> 
> To straighten a few things out, it's not about inviting me in the shower or wearing lingerie as much as it is what they symbolize. It could be as much as rolling over in bed and starting to kiss me...I would take that. Keeping in mind that my wife said "if you want me to wear lingerie, then buy it for me". So I did.
> 
> ...


Let's try this again. A really good marriage is about unconditional love. Unconditional love is unidirectional. You give love and you do it because you love them. Think of how you should feel toward your children. Are you going to love them less if they don't wash their hair every day? NO! 

What you are talking about is a covert contract, where you do something for your spouse in the expectation that they will give you something you want. Hey if I do the dishes, and the laundry and the vacuuming, she might have sex with me. That is not sexy and is transparent to most wives. Glover would say the next step for a Nice Guy would be to add three more chores to the list again hoping that sex will be the result. Then three additional chores, until he is so exhausted he no longer wants sex.

That kind of quid pro quo works for politics and business relationships. In your vows there were probably words like in sickness and in health. Well that is a time when quid pro quo's might be totally impossible. 

Figure out what makes you happy and start taking responsibility for your happiness. Get a Life. Also learn how to really give unconditional love. I first learned that from my dog, then from my kids. Luckily I learned how to love my wife unconditionally and make her feel loved and cherished every day. It made a world of difference in our relationship.

Finally, if you wife has a stressful job it is not about doing your fair share of stuff around the house or with the kids, it is about doing as much as you can do so as to de-stress her life. If you take your kids to swimming lessons and swim with them, and tell you wife to rest while you are gone you will be doing yourself, your kids and your wife a big favor. It you and the kids come home happy and laughing you will go a long way toward making a rested her want to seduce you.

If there are chores that you can hire out that she doesn't like do it. If there are things you can do or that you and the oldest kid can do around the house do it. It is not about 50/50 or sharing, it is about doing as much as you can because you love her unconditionally. That doesn't mean being a doormat, but it does mean doing things with no expectation or covert contract.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

YaH, I'll disagree with you. First of all, I question the concept of unconditional love, but let's say it exists. However, if not reciprocated and you are not treated in like fashion, then it is dysfunctional at best. A highly unbalanced relationship is not a relationship. A good marriage is about two people trying to do their best for each other. She is not.

I think the one thing you can try is the 180. Distance yourself, pay her no heed, act as if you are about to leave and divorce her. She will either realize what she may lose and change her behavior - or, if she doesn't, you'll know you don't really matter to her, and may as well leave.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

NLoc17 said:


> ...I don't expect my wife to seduce me once a week, I would like her to do it once in a while, just to show that she's heard me and she trying.
> 
> ...I'm fine with doing the man stuff the other times.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the article. It has a number of good points and yes, sex to men is incredibly important for a solid marriage. Hormones released during sex help with bonding and touch is so very important. Sex allows me to feel close to my wife. She now knows that.

I have been married to the same woman for over 44 years. I came very close to divorcing her when our marriage deteriorated into a true Sex Starved Marriage. We were both emotionally hurting each other and our marriage was in a downward spiral. One night she went too far and I told her I deserved better. I decided to try to fix my marriage and if that didn't work I would end it. 

Rather than telling my wife that and scaring her, I started to read a number of great relationship books. MW Davis the Sex Starved Marriage, Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy, Chapmans the 5 Languages of Love, Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight, Scharch the Passionate Marriage and the Crucible, plus others. 

What I learned was that my wife who by then refused to have sex with me still loved me deeply, but not in a way the I would have understood until I read those books. I was not the victim of a frigid wife.  I was part of the problem. A big part of the problem.

Each day my wife, in her love languages (Chapman's book) was telling me she loved me, even if she refused to have sex with me. My wife grew up in a home where the wife making a home cooked dinner for the husband and having it ready when he got home was how love was expressed. That is how she was taught to love a man. When I was late for dinner and it got burned, it was as if I had slapped her in the face. I didn't know how badly I had hurt her. I had rejected her offers of love in her love languages (acts of service and quality time). She was angry with me. She had a right to be angry with me, in her mind.

She on the other hand didn't understand that my love languages were touch and words of affirmation. When I want to show her I love her I would touch her shoulder or her neck. She viewed this as my constantly pawing at her to get in her pants. When I want to show her love I tell her how proud of I am of some of the things she down and what a wonderful person she is. She viewed it as buttering her up to get in her pants. Her rejection of my offers of emotional love hurt as much or more than the rejections of sexual love.

What I learned was that we were each saying "I love you" each and every day, but not understanding what the other was saying. She still loved me, but was so angry with me that she would not initiate or have sex with me. She felt she was the one who was not being met half way and that she was the victim.

Once I understood, I started telling her I loved her in her love languages. I make coffee each morning and bring it to her in bed and we drink it while we each wake up (my act of service to her). Then we talk about what we will be doing in the day (quality time). I do this because I love her and want her to feel loved and cherished in her love languages. Everyone has different love languages.

At night when she cooks dinner, I become her assistant and also bring her a glass of wine, while we cook (act of service to her). Then we talk about the day over dinner (quality time), so she feels loved at the beginning and end of each day. She knows I do this because I love her and expect nothing in return.

She now has sex with me as often as she is able to, which is generally twice a week. And her 66 year old body does rock my world. 

P.S. I tried doing other chores, like I do the dishes, my laundry, take out the garbage, do some of the shopping, all of the vacuuming, but she didn't view any of those things as "act of service" in her mind they were just fairly sharing the chores that needed to be done. It was by accident that I stumbled on bringing her coffee in bed that she viewed as an act of service and statement of my love for her. M. W Davis in her book the Sex Starved Marriage talks about doing 180's as trial and error experiments to see what does and doesn't work. That is exactly what you need to do.

Good luck. Admit you are part of the problem. Drop any anger. Forgive her. Take responsibility for your own happiness. Get a Life. Learn to love unconditionally and love her in the way she wants to be loved.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> YaH, I'll disagree with you. First of all, I question the concept of unconditional love, but let's say it exists. However, if not reciprocated and you are not treated in like fashion, then it is dysfunctional at best. A highly unbalanced relationship is not a relationship. A good marriage is about two people trying to do their best for each other. She is not.
> 
> I think the one thing you can try is the 180. Distance yourself, pay her no heed, act as if you are about to leave and divorce her. She will either realize what she may lose and change her behavior - or, if she doesn't, you'll know you don't really matter to her, and may as well leave.


I will agree and disagree with you. You can't be doormat. You can't violate your boundaries, ethics, etc.

However, I use to have a dog that did love me unconditionally. There is a joke about I hope that I am half the man that my dog thinks I am. It is really true. My dog taught me a lot about unconditional love. It was excited to see me when I got home from work. I couldn't wait for me to take it for a walk. I would lay down at my feet just to be near me. It wanted me to be happy. 

My kids also taught me a lot about unconditional love, how to be proud of them and love them even when they did dumb things or weren't on their best behavior. 

Do I think that I should be a pet for my wife? No. But I do know that since I have given her my love in her love languages and expected nothing in return, she valued our marriage a lot me.

I totally agree with you on the 180's. I also agree that if you wife acts crazy and picks a fight, don't get sucked into a fight that you really don't want. 

So we probably agree on a lot.


----------



## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> *when a woman in naturally low drive and there is nothing to fix! Then nothing will work, but she may still say there is something to fix - my ex was like that,but she's just naturally LD,* and is the same with her new husband.


MY X- wife was like this. You can buy her the moon and stay home all day doing things but she will still have low drive and you WILL be disappointed 
( the exception would be IF she were to have a natural hormone change later in life but don't hold your breath....


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Women are the only species made for sex at any time. Other animals have specific cycles when the have sex. Deer for example only rut in the fall. The reason is for human females to be able to keep their man in the family for them to provide for and protect the wife and kids. Women can also have sex after their child bearing years are over. This is designed to keep the male in line since he can continue to perform and be attracted to women until he dies or has medical issues.

Get the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and follow the MAP plan. It has worked for many men here. There is a link below and it can be downloaded at amazon. Check out the reviews.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

The bottom line is the ld spouse controls the sex frequency in a marriage. Read all the books you like but that will not change.


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

My ex-husband thinks that I must either be LD or a lesbian, because otherwise how could any woman not want to have sex with him? But that's a narcissist for you. 

I actually enjoy sex with men, and am quite sexually functional. He was, too - I never had a bad experience with him in bed and never once faked it with him in all our years together. I just wasn't an initiator. This bothered him, or at least I think it must have - he never once told me that it did. But here's the thing: He never just reached out for me and started holding and kissing me. Sex was always this thing that was talked about and planned, with outfits (it started out with lingerie, then went to leather, then B&D). He never once asked me how I wanted to be approached for sex or what kind of things turn me on.

The truth is, I just wanted to be calmly and consistently loved and shown I was valued. Doing the dishes after I cooked or folding the laundry on the days I worked all day wasn't, as YaH said, doing me a service to show love. It was just doing a fair amount of the chores.

Men here and everywhere who have what they think are LD wives have this common misconception that if they just do more around the house, they'll help lift some of our stress and free us up to have time for sex. But that's not what we want. I'm here to tell you what that is.

LISTEN TO US WHEN WE TALK. TALK TO US. Not just about how our "rejection of you" makes you feel (but do tell us that, too - God knows my ex never did) - but about your day, what's stressing you out at work or with the kids or with your family, ask us what's stressing us out about those things. And really LISTEN. Don't try to fix it or tell us how we could do better, like my ex did CONSTANTLY. It makes us feel small and inadequate. And when we don't feel adequate as human beings in our jobs or parenting or family relationships, we don't feel adequate as wives, either.

Young at Heart, if my ex had ever once even made me coffee, let alone brought it to me in bed, he would have had to peel me off of him a few hours later. I love coffee. Drink it every day. The most I'd get out of him on Saturday mornings was "Do you HAVE to make that awful stuff every weekend? It stinks up the house." 

As YaH and others have suggested, OP, try to focus on just making your wife feel loved and valued - put yourself in her shoes and imagine what it is you would most want if you were her from a man who loves and values you. That should be easy - if you love and value her, and are capable of empathy.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Women are the only species made for sex at any time. Other animals have specific cycles when the have sex. Deer for example only rut in the fall. The reason is for human females to be able to keep their man in the family for them to provide for and protect the wife and kids. Women can also have sex after their child bearing years are over. *This is designed to keep the male in line* since he can continue to perform and be attracted to women until he dies or has medical issues.


And who exactly "designed" this to "keep men in line"?


----------



## CopperTop (May 29, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> And who exactly "designed" this to "keep men in line"?


Evolution.

From the abstract Hormones and history: The evolution and development of primate female sexuality by Kim Wallena & Julia L. Zehrbc.



> Sexual behavior is required for reproduction in internally fertilizing species but poses significant social and physical risks. Females in many nonprimate species have evolved physical and behavioral mechanisms restricting sexual behavior to when females are fertile. The same hormones producing female fertility also control these mechanisms, assuring that sex only occurs when reproduction is possible. In contrast to nonprimate mammals, hormones do not regulate the capacity to engage in sex infernale anthropoid primates, uncoupling fertility and the physical capacity to mate. Instead, in primates, sexual motivation has become the primary coordinator between sexual behavior and fertility. This dependence upon psychological mechanisms to coordinate physiology with behavior is possibly unique to primates, including humans, and allows a variety of nonphysiological influences, particularly social context, to regulate sexual behavior. The independence between hormonal state and sexual behavior allows sex to be used for social purposes. This complex regulation of primate sexuality develops during adolescence, where female monkeys show both hormonally influenced sexual motivation and socially modulated sexual behavior. We present findings from rhesus monkeys illustrating how social context and hormonal state interact to modulate adolescent and adult sexuality. It is argued that this flexibility in sexual behavior, combined with a tight regulation of sexual motivational systems by reproductive hormones, allows sexual behavior to be used for nonreproductive purposes while still assuring its occurrence during periods of female fertility. The evolutionary pressures that produced such flexibility in sexual behavior remain puzzling, but may reflect the importance of sexuality to primate social attraction and cohesion.


The theory in a nutshell states that women that were fertile and "in heat" all the time were naturally selected, and thus thrived at a higher rate than those females that were only fertile and "in heat" once or twice a year.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Complementing is fine but it's more complicated than that. If it was that simple no one would have frequency issues


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NLoc17,

The chance that your wife is low drive is very small.

She is most likely not happy with the relationship as it has developed. It is not meeting her needs. And she most likely does not know how to articulate what the problem is.

There are two books whose purpose is to help a couple learn to talk about their needs and to teach them how to meet each other's needs. I highly suggest that you get them, and ask your wife to read them with you and do the work they suggest.

The books are "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" .

After that, the books that Young at Heart suggests are really good too. Our society does not do a lot to teach people how to have a good relationship. That's what these books do.


.


----------



## Tantan (Jan 16, 2016)

I can understand your frustration, I have the same situation, since the baby was born everything changed. My wife became obsessed with the kid. Baby is nearly 4 now, we haven't gone out once. She would rather be with the baby. I have to beg and beg. Once a month became normal. I have expressed my feelings and nothing has changed.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Okguy said:


> The bottom line is the ld spouse controls the sex frequency in a marriage. Read all the books you like but that will not change.


Take your pick, God, evolution, or both. Pretty obvious isn't it?


----------



## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

sorry man, similar situation here. Both of us are 33, have a 6 year old and 2 year old. it ebbs and flows but it's never really gotten "better" for any sustained period of time. I help around the house too, usually more than 50%. Nothing I do seems to change anything, it pretty much all depends on which way the wind is blowing for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

NLoc17 said:


> Thanks for all the responses, and yes, I contribute very equally with household stuff. To straighten a few things out, it's not about inviting me in the shower or wearing lingerie as much as it is what they symbolize. It could be as much as rolling over in bed and starting to kiss me...I would take that. Keeping in mind that my wife said "if you want me to wear lingerie, then buy it for me". So I did. And yes, once a week is not the end of the world, but I'm tired of having to almost beg just to get that. Whether or not this sounds corny, it doesn't feel good to think that the person you love and are attracted to you might not feel the same way. Someone mentioned compromise in a marriage, it goes both ways. Maybe I could do more to help out the situation, but bottom line is we talk about this issue, have argued about this issue and the only one who seems to try and do things different is me. It's hard to want to try and do even more, when you're not seeing anything in return. If I'm willing to compromise/sacrifice my natural born human nature urges, i should be able to expect something in return. Masturbation is not the same thing, ladies please don't think it is.


Why do you expect something in return?

Expectations are a large part of the mess you are in.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP:

The heart of the problem is her avoidance of discussing the problem openly.

Your task is to get her to really be open with you. To tell you why her drive is dropping. All of us are exhausted; too busy; too many tasks; etc. But the things that matter to us we make time for.

Your wife has you low on her priority list. You can't figure out why or what to do because she is withholding the truth from you.

I think Elegirl has this nailed.

You have to talk not about sex, but about your relationship. You have to make it safe for her to open up. Ask hher open ended questions: 

"How do you think are relationship is faring?"

Ask her to take the Love Busters questionnaire together. That is often eye opening.

Fair warning though, OP. When you get her to open up and be honest, you will probably not like what you hear. It will likely require that you change some things in order for her to feel better about you. 

If after much effort (think a few months) to get her to open up it does not work, then you need to shift gears and destabilize. Start doing things on your own in the evenings: hobbies, things with the kids without her, things that bring you joy; no other women; no bars; no cheating. Stop doing the things she appreciates from you. No seeking her out for attention, hugs, affection, nada. If she wants it, let her come to you. If she asks you for something, it should go something like this:

Her: Can you get me a glass of water?
You, with your best smile: I would love to, but my back hurts. I hear massage is great for soothing the water carrying muscles...

When she eventually asks you why you why you are doing that, simply tell her: 

"I respectfully asked for an honest discussion about the relationship multiple times and you passed, so my priority has shifted to myself and the kids, not us as a couple. Please let me know when you are ready for that to change".

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Seems any woman would figure out very quickly that it's all about more sex. But worth a try.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

intheory said:


> @Young at Heart I'm not quarreling with you; but this ice-cream/football analogy of Dr. Schnarch's doesn't work for me . The sex drive is an inborn need that really has to be satisfied for a human being to be content. Ice-cream and football are completely optional and negotiable.
> 
> And I speak out against the philosophy of "unconditional love" whereever I find itissed: An evil, so-often-abused doctrine, that results in one person striving and striving to please; while the other sits back and takes and takes.
> 
> ...


Everyone is different and I can accept that. I agree with you that Schnarch and his insights aren't for everyone, but they do help a person deal with some important introspection that they need to do.

If you feel that sex is an absolute biological need that must be satisfied at what frequency or what range of frequency is required? Urination, bowel movements, heart rates have typical ranges. Is sex programmed in like that? 

I do know couples that seem "happy together" that have little sex. I know several couples in long distance relationships because of work or military deployment who claim to be "in love" and yet aren't having sex together multiple times a week. 

Again, since sex is an inborn need, what is the "right or correct" frequency. I think that you will find that is situational and dependent on lots of factors. Which is the point that I think Schnarch is making. Yes, sex is different from ice cream or watching football, it is something that we are biologically or evolutionary programmed to do and want. But there still isn't a one size (frequency) fits all.

One of the hardest questions I had to answer and was quizzed on by the sex therapist helping my wife and me was "what was the minimum times a week that having sex with my wife, would satisfy me into staying married to her." I thought long and hard about that question. 

I agree with you that fairly often unconditional love is abused. I tried to say that one should not allow oneself to become a doormat. 

Glover's NMMNG really was a turning point in my life when I think I finally understood what he was saying and the GAL, being an integrated man, not being codependent, and playing on covert contract games finally made sense to me. 

For the benefit of others (not you) reading this, I will go back to the dog analogy. My dog gave me unconditional love. Yes that is not human love, but it was an example of unconditional love. In that situation I didn't abuse the dog, I didn't ignore the dog. I gave the dog my attention and my affection. I took good care of that dog. 

Yes a spouse is totally different. Human love is different. Human love with physical sexual connections are totally different. But I would refer you to Sue Johnson's book Hold Me Tight. It is about how people are social animals. How we and primates need to be touched to feel that we are loved otherwise we will fail to thrive. There are countless stories of baby orphans who fail to thrive unless held and given love by another human being. 

While I totally agree with you that demanding unconditional love is often abusive, giving unconditional love can be an extreme gift. But noone should give unconditional love to the point that they become a doormat or someone's pet.


----------



## Kelly:( (Jan 15, 2016)

I think its important to be patient with the spouse whose sex drive is low because it must be determined if other factors play a role outside of his/her interest in another person. Infidelity, even if it's an emotional relationship outside of the marriage, must be ruled out first. That can more likely be achieved through marriage counseling. Leaving your spouse because of different libidos is a dishonour of the concept and purpose of marriage. In sickness and health is what I mean. If one of you were to become injured to the extent you couldn't perform sexually or that your libido was altered you can't take their lack of interest as a rejection of you. The trouble comes in when the other spouse lies about their lack of interest in sex. So counseling is important here because we imperfect humans often don't know how to communicate. Many don't realize how important listening is in communication so that's why a therapist would be necessary to help moderate the dialogue between a couple so that fears can be allayed and truth can come out. If you love someone you will listen to them and use a therapist to help the two of you so that each person has a chance to commincate their feelings without fear of being judged misunderstood and rejected in some instances. Love means you will try in all your power to hear what he/she needs.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I have a few thoughts on this.

First, most women have "responsive desire", meaning that they don't spontaneously get aroused, but will after their partner gets them into it.

Second, by all means buy and read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man's Sex Life". They can't hurt.

Third, after you have absorbed the information in those books and put whatever you find useful into action, tell your wife the following:

"Honey, sex with you is very important for me to feel loved and connected to you. I know you don't think about it much, but I think about it all the time because we aren't having much sex. So let's schedule a time every week that we will have sex."

You never know; she might just agree when you put it that way.

If she balks, repeat how important it is to you. If she still balks, then say "Ok, then apparently other things are more important to you than my feeling loving and connected to you. I'll have to see what I can do about that myself if you won't budge."

Then do the 180 as suggested above.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Technovelist it's worth a shot.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

NLoc17 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 in the next couple months. We have two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life. I have a good sex drive and could easily go 3-4 times a week, my wife could easily go a lot longer without, not a test i wanna take. This leads to me having to plan, oversee and initiate the act, which more than half the time is met with annoyance or a time limit, which I hate. It's at the point where these actions completely put me out of the mood. I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time. We wind up having sex about 3-4 times a month, which 90% of the time ends with both of us satisfied. This is not even my complaint although it's not my ideal situation even after compromisg. My biggest issue is that even after our talks she makes no attempts to be interested in me, surprise me with lingerie or invite me to her shower...anything. I'm just tired of not seeing any affection or interest from my wife and above all the lack of effort to try and make me happy sucks. I don't want this to go on for the rest of our sexable lives. I completely understand she does have long days and a higher than normal stress job but does that mean I have to suffer, that no compromise or sacrifice has to be made on her part? I'm compromising already by not bothering her every night about having sex, by not letting my emotions take over when the plan was to have sex but she fell asleep again. Am I crazy?


No advice. Just sounds like you could be married to my wife.

I understand how frustrated you are. I have been married for 28 years. It only gets worse.

By the way, I don't think it has anything to do with how tired or stressed she is. I am guessing she has all kinds of energy to stay up late to watch a favorite show, or go out with friends, or whatever else she actually wants to do. My wife is a SAHM. She used the tired/stressed excuse when the kids were older. Doesn't work now that the kids are grown.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Young at Heart it's really only children and the helpless that get unconditional love. Adults give love and need love in return. It's a system that feeds on itself, getting what you need from the one you love makes it possible to give what they need. Its an exchange and its the way adult relationships work. Also, his apologizing would be a mistake. They are both at fault for this dynamic, if anything they should declare a truce and vow to work together. 

OP One thing I know is that getting angry and arguing does not work. Think about it, why would anyone want to engage in an intimate loving act with an angry man? Sex becomes a power struggle, she has sex on her terms in defiance of your demands. In this arena, you are enemies in a trench war. You can refuse to play by walking away or not initiating. Since you have not tried other approaches, that seems premature. 

Are you enemies? Do you feel you can trust each other, are you there for each other, are you a team against the world, do you like each other? If you are adversaries then your sex lives will remain a struggle. You may be able to get pleasure from sex with her when you are angry and dissatisfied but she may not. 

Someone has to change the dynamic. You are here so why don't you do it. Resolve not ti fight over sex. Sexual intimacy requires trust and anger does not engender that. I am not blaming you but pointing out possible problems and avenues where some effort may yield results. Getting angry and demanding is common and may seem justified but it does not work for obvious reasons. 

If there are other problems in the relationship from her point of view, find out what they are and explore them as vigorously as the sex problem. I offer this as an addition to all of the great advice that you have already received.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Yes but being angry over lack of sex seems hard to avoid. It becomes a vicious circle.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

NLoc17 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 in the next couple months. We have two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life. I have a good sex drive and could easily go 3-4 times a week, my wife could easily go a lot longer without, not a test i wanna take. This leads to me having to plan, oversee and initiate the act, which more than half the time is met with annoyance or a time limit, which I hate. It's at the point where these actions completely put me out of the mood. I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time. We wind up having sex about 3-4 times a month, which 90% of the time ends with both of us satisfied. This is not even my complaint although it's not my ideal situation even after compromisg. My biggest issue is that even after our talks she makes no attempts to be interested in me, surprise me with lingerie or invite me to her shower...anything. I'm just tired of not seeing any affection or interest from my wife and above all the lack of effort to try and make me happy sucks. I don't want this to go on for the rest of our sexable lives. I completely understand she does have long days and a higher than normal stress job but does that mean I have to suffer, that no compromise or sacrifice has to be made on her part? I'm compromising already by not bothering her every night about having sex, by not letting my emotions take over when the plan was to have sex but she fell asleep again. Am I crazy?


crazy? no. married, yes. that's what its like - didn't you see that in the brochures?


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Okguy said:


> Yes but being angry over lack of sex seems hard to avoid. It becomes a vicious circle.


strikeout sex - insert intimacy.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Both actually


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't know Tech. The last part is adversarial and is not consistent with emotional closeness or love. Think about it from a human relationship standpoint. 

If he needs sex to feel love and connected, how can he flip the switch so quickly and turn to vague threats? In that respect, he is not expressing a need to feel loved and connected but to get sex. The message needs to be consistent. If its sex then he should go with that so he does not seem manipulative. Make sure that it's as good for her as it is for him. It's ok to get angry if he can't get as much as he wants and to D and look for sex. 

If it's love then he needs to be loving. Talk about sex in terms of what they both get out of it. Is she satisfied, does she feel loved and appreciated, does she think it is possible to make him happy and how. He needs sex to feel love sounds like she meeds to give him sex to get love. They are both starving for love, affection and acceptance in their own way. He is not likely to get her to make him feel loved if she does not feel loved and valued to begin with. 

I would advise him not lead with sex for now. Find out what else is going on with her as a first step and become friends again.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Wouldn't it be great if the person u married continued to have the same sex drive as you do?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Okguy said:


> Yes but being angry over lack of sex seems hard to avoid. It becomes a vicious circle.


I know. Not that I know what being angry when sexually frustrated feels like. I know how the anger, impatience and show of frustration feels like on the receiving end. Thats why I am posting. 

It can be interpreted as the exact opposite of love. This may be the start of feeling that the husband only cares about sex and only likes his wife if he gets it. It's hard to see how anyone can connect emotionally with someone they are angry with or find so easy to replace over sex. I know from reading posts on this forum and the change in my marriage that came from my understanding that the anger is really pain, loneliness and longing that men are not allowed to feel or express. 

Just saying. Although, some of the things that are said are not consistent with emotions but sex with no emotional investment. 

I think that the intensity of emotional involvement differs among men. I get the sense that the OP's frustration is mostly sexual in nature. He does not talk about connecting with his wife but how many days he gets sex and what his wife should do to relieve his frustration. I don't get the sense that he is love starved. Thats ok but he should not say he wants to connect emotionally because his wife knows otherwise.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

But what I am saying is that it's not just about the sex. It's about the love and closeness and intimacy involved in making love. It's very frustrating when that connection becomes severely limited. Especially when you have a wife that really enjoys it and climaxes every time.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> I think that the intensity of emotional involvement differs among men. I get the sense that the OP's frustration is mostly sexual in nature. He does not talk about connecting with his wife but how many days he gets sex and what his wife should do to relieve his frustration. I don't get the sense that he is love starved. Thats ok but he should not say he wants to connect emotionally because his wife knows otherwise.


He's only been married 8 years, give it another 5 or 10 to fully develop. 

I have a theory, until age takes off the top, say 20%, of testosterone, the sexual frustration blinds us to love starved part. Both are there but one is much more immediate.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

But the op is only in his 30s. He should be getting all the sex he can handle. Of course that's the problem with differing sexual drives.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I can only say that women don't understand what sex becomes to men when they love. We know about immature male sexuality. Men get sex from women by stealth. Sex is for the pleasure of men and women are pawns in their pursuit of variety and numbers. A man wanting sex does not mean he loves and cares about his partner although he may lie about it. Masculinity is measured numbers of sexual encounters and the acts a man can convince a woman to do. 

Is that a fair characterization? So suddenly sex is about love and connection. How and why? I have never understood how an act that is so meaningless with respect to women can change so dramatically. Mostly, I don't know how women are supposed to know this transition takes place or understand what it means. 

The change in the woman libido in marriage is discussed ad infinitum but the emotional change in men is not. Women cannot be blamed for sticking with what they know and experienced from premarital days, sex is recreational pleasure and fun. When life gets busy, there is less time for it.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Less time for it? Right. But tons of time for everything else.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Sex is much more than recreational pleasure.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Okguy said:


> Less time for it? Right. But tons of time for everything else.


Yes. If it's recreational why not? Work before play.

If its an essential part of bonding then that's different. Not having sex causes emotional pain and loneliness in someone you love.




Okguy said:


> Sex is much more than recreational pleasure.


How are women supposed to know that? How can they tell which it is, clearly it's not always love and connection.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

It is part of bonding and lack of it causes pain. For sure.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Okguy said:


> It is part of bonding and lack of it causes pain. For sure.


I came to know by accident really. I read in more than one book. Then I read 100's of posts on this site. It changed my attitude dramatically. 

I told my husband what I read hoping for confirmation. He listened and made noncommittal comments and gave vague answers. However, I know I got it right just from his behavior and actions. He got emotional but would not say anything. I feel sad that I did not know. 

Many if not most women don't know.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

I suppose it is at least partially fair for some men, I'm only one so can only speak for myself.

My numbers are not huge. Did I start in pursuit of sex only and as soon as possible, sure absolutely. In a small handful of times that was all it was and moving on was pretty easy. In another handful of times it led to much longer term relationships and the moving on part was more difficult. Sex is like that, once or twice can be meaningless. More becomes meaningful even if I try for it not be be, but that's me.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> OP:
> Her: Can you get me a glass of water?
> You, with your best smile: I would love to, but my back hurts. I hear massage is great for soothing the water carrying muscles...


I've come to focus on the difference between "anger" and "sorrow." Although a rejected spouse will likely reach the point of anger, I think the primary feeling is one of loss and sorrow. Focusing on the sorrow seems not just truer, but likely more productive.

Refusing to get the water is, or could likely be interpreted as angry. Getting the water, but doing so with some expression of sorrow might be better (maybe while wearing a black armband?)


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Some women do have unfulfilled sexual needs when it's the husband that is the low drive partner


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

bestyet2be said:


> I've come to focus on the difference between "anger" and "sorrow." Although a rejected spouse will likely reach the point of anger, I think the primary feeling is one of loss and sorrow. Focusing on the sorrow seems not just truer, but likely more productive.
> 
> Refusing to get the water is, or could likely be interpreted as angry. Getting the water, but doing so with some expression of sorrow might be better (maybe while wearing a black armband?)


This is true.

However, I cannot control the interpretation of someone else, nor their reaction. 

I can only communicate. This conversation communicates much without saying much.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

His wife is at a time in her life that should be her highest peak of her own sexual needs.

Something smells rotten here.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> I can only say that women don't understand what sex becomes to men when they love. We know about immature male sexuality. Men get sex from women by stealth. Sex is for the pleasure of men and women are pawns in their pursuit of variety and numbers. A man wanting sex does not mean he loves and cares about his partner although he may lie about it. Masculinity is measured numbers of sexual encounters and the acts a man can convince a woman to do.
> 
> Is that a fair characterization? So suddenly sex is about love and connection. How and why? I have never understood how an act that is so meaningless with respect to women can change so dramatically. Mostly, *I don't know how women are supposed to know this transition takes place or understand what it means. *
> 
> The change in the woman libido in marriage is discussed ad infinitum but the emotional change in men is not. Women cannot be blamed for sticking with what they know and experienced from premarital days, sex is recreational pleasure and fun. When life gets busy, there is less time for it.


Maybe women should listening to *what their husbands are telling them* about their need for sex to have an emotional connection, rather than "sticking with what they know".

ETA: I see that you have figured this out yourself, so this is not directed to you.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Tech I agree.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

That glass of water example is pretty much saying Id get it for u if you do something for me. Again most women can figure that out


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Okguy said:


> That glass of water example is pretty much saying Id get it for u if you do something for me. Again most women can figure that out


The nature of their relationship is that he be selfless in the face of her selfishness.

Actions communicate that deficiency much clearer than words.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Yes but the message is still the same


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Both hers and his, sure.

His: our needs are important.

Hers: my needs are important.

What he is doing now is accepting her message. I am saying he should use actions to flat out reject that message.

Win win or no deal.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

The problem comes if it's less than win-win but more than no deal.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Okguy said:


> The problem comes if it's less than win-win but more than no deal.


Then it is not important enough to negotiate and he should live with it.

ETA: And then we arrive back at your specific problem, Okguy, where your sex life is bad enough to complain about, but clearly not bad enough for you to actually do anything about. If I didn't know any better I would think you are advocating for him to do the same...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Okguy said:


> Wouldn't it be great if the person u married continued to have the same sex drive as you do?


Wouldn't it be great if nobody's life ever changed? If nobody ever had kids, or elderly parents, or got sick, or changed jobs, or got a mortgage...


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

When you beg and pressure her for sex, you aren't making her feel attracted to you. You're just adding another item to her already overloaded 'to-do' list.



NLoc17 said:


> 5 Reasons Why Women Shouldn?t Deprive their Man of Sex - The Feminine Woman ? Femininity - Dating & Relationship Advice for Women - The Feminine Woman


I doubt she feels she's depriving you of sex. I would hazard a guess that she feels your current lifestyle is depriving you both of sex. She's just better able to cope with that deprivation than you are.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Tech at his age it's worth a try.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

And I am aware of the fact that life is not fair. And not just with mismatched sexual drives.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

technovelist said:


> Maybe women should listening to *what their husbands are telling them* about their need for sex to have an emotional connection, rather than "sticking with what they know".
> 
> ETA: I see that you have figured this out yourself, so this is not directed to you.


Just listen and believe would take an extraordinary ability to ignore previous experience. Read some of the post upstream. Is there an abidance of listening to what women are telling? You need to experience the task of changing in the face of experience or preconceived ideas. 

Does this sound familiar "all a woman can do for me is to have sex, cook and STFU". It's said in half jest. Complaints that their wives talk too much or try to change them. Words have impact, if they they hurt and belittle, you need to expect the same in return. Most women feel loved by the very same things that are ridiculed here, when they feel valued outside of the ability to cook, give sex and accept what he is prepared to give without complaint.

When we first got together, my husband (then bf ) stared at attractive women. I told him that it made me feel unattractive. My motive was not to control him or ask him to change just to let him know how I felt. He didn't refuse to be controlled or tell me it's normal for men and meant nothing, he stopped looking. It made me feel that I was important to him. 

Men and woman need to know that in relationships we react like humans. We exchange needs, we notice verbal and nonverbal cues, we can't give more than we receive, we value our contribution, we don't like feeling used and we need to feel loved, appreciated, respected and valued.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

TAM has had so many threads dealing with infrequent or sexless marriages. I think posters feel desperate but I think oddly enough that these threads can be hopefully.

1) Is your spouse BPD? If so, it will be a mess no matter what.
2) Have you allowed yourself to be a doormat and lost your sex ranking?
3) Have you done things to deeply p!ss off your spouse?
4) Is your spouse suffering depression?

For those who follow a threat it is hard to know exactly what is going on.

1) Do you have habits that make you unattractive, nicotine or porn addiction, for example?
2) Are you overweight?
3) Are you needy?
4) Are you listening to your spouse?
5) Do you stand up for yourself?

If a man has botched a conflict situation in front of other people, a woman may fall out of love with her husband. She may never say anything about it, but being a strong masculine person is important for sex appeal. 

Is a man mysterious? Women want to feel that they need to be attractive to seduce a guy. It's a challenge. If there is no challenge, maybe the guy is boring.

There are so many factors. 

A guy should seek happiness from within.

Watch some Louis CK and laugh at this shyte.

A sense of humor helps.

Work out on weights.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> Both hers and his, sure.
> 
> His: our needs are important.
> 
> ...


But it's not win/win Farsidejunky. 

She probably feels she is giving as much in the relationship as he is and feels her needs are not being met. I suspect that neither of them are giving what the other needs. 

Maybe he should stop doing things to get her attention and stop being angry with her. Just be himself, confident, independent and a man who has control of himself and his world. Do his part in the domestic arena with out being asked but don't overdo. Look good, update wardrobe and try to find out what she needs. She knows what he needs. 

I think he needs to change the way he approaches partnered sex, it has to be mutually satisfying. When he wants something new, try only things that bring them both pleasure. 

Take the lingerie, it does nothing for her so, he should not insist or get angry about it. Let her decide when she is in the mood to wear it. If he insists, then it becomes a power struggle. People don't relinquish power by exposing themselves to their protagonist.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

NLoc17 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, we will both be 35 in the next couple months. We have two children 3 and 5. We both have good jobs and our marriage is pretty good besides our sex life. I have a good sex drive and could easily go 3-4 times a week, my wife could easily go a lot longer without, not a test i wanna take. This leads to me having to plan, oversee and initiate the act, which more than half the time is met with annoyance or a time limit, which I hate. It's at the point where these actions completely put me out of the mood. I've explained to my wife my concerns and she expresses how it's not her fault she's tired or stressed (she does have a stressful job, and I understand that) all the time. We wind up having sex about 3-4 times a month, which 90% of the time ends with both of us satisfied. This is not even my complaint although it's not my ideal situation even after compromisg. My biggest issue is that even after our talks she makes no attempts to be interested in me, surprise me with lingerie or invite me to her shower...anything. I'm just tired of not seeing any affection or interest from my wife and above all the lack of effort to try and make me happy sucks. I don't want this to go on for the rest of our sexable lives. I completely understand she does have long days and a higher than normal stress job but does that mean I have to suffer, that no compromise or sacrifice has to be made on her part? I'm compromising already by not bothering her every night about having sex, by not letting my emotions take over when the plan was to have sex but she fell asleep again. Am I crazy?



Sounds like you are a HD guy and your wife is a LD lady.

Sexual mismatch is quite common.


Your wife is to take care of your needs as her own and not what she only wants and vise versa.

So if she knows you have a healthy high sex drive, she should be taking care of your need, sexual and physical.


This is a classic LD. They don't see their lack of interest in sex as a problem, therefore, it isn't a problem. That's very selfish.

It's not rocket science that most guys are physical and sexual.

The LD spouse will say, my job is stressful, I'm tired, busy on the phone, watching my fav tv show, reading a good book, my friends want to do something, our kids need attention and the list is endless.

Having sex isn't a test and hard to do. Sex bonds hubby and wifee together more than any words and talking.

Find out why she is LD. 


Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz and then compare the results afterwards with each other. This should help a lot.

Language Profile | The 5 Love Languages®


Turns out I am Physical rating 12 and high sex drive.

My wife is Acts of Service rating 12 and low sex drive.

Also depends on who is aggressive and who is passive.

I am the aggressive one and my wife is the passive one.


Sex should bring you both together and unstress each other.

What I've learned is the HD spouse is the one killing off their sex drive and the LD spouse doesn't change much if at all.....

So if HD spouse needs sex every day, LD wants sex 1x month, what happens is sex 1x to 2x month, instead of maybe 3x every week.

That is all on the LD at that point....


----------



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Maybe women should listening to *what their husbands are telling them* about their need for sex to have an emotional connection, rather than "sticking with what they know".


What if a woman's husband never tells her this, even when she asks him if he's happy with their relationship? 

I know that's not the case in the OP's experience, but it is for many others.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
In many cases here, none of those are true. There are a lot of LD people who just don't want sex. Its nothing the HD person is, or isn't doing. There simply is no desire there - for anyone.






LongWalk said:


> TAM has had so many threads dealing with infrequent or sexless marriages. I think posters feel desperate but I think oddly enough that these threads can be hopefully.
> 
> 1) Is your spouse BPD? If so, it will be a mess no matter what.
> 2) Have you allowed yourself to be a doormat and lost your sex ranking?
> ...


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Cuddle bug you are absolutely right about how the frequency is determined when an hd husband has an ld wife.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> What if a woman's husband never tells her this, even when she asks him if he's happy with their relationship?
> 
> I know that's not the case in the OP's experience, but it is for many others.


Then it is on him, obviously. But as you point out, that isn't the OP's case.


----------



## froggy7777 (Jan 8, 2016)

Sex in Marriage. God Made sex enjoyable for male and female but I believe in the confines of marriage, but of course some will not agree with that. Those who don't believe in anything spiritual. Sex as I say was made for our enjoyment and I do believe that as the Word says; the marriage bed is for whatever. My wife and I are both up in years and have had a good sex life but now a lot of it is memory; due to age and sickness. We still enjoy hugging and kissing. If other means; hands or mouth; or toys ( if agreed by both ) I see no problems with. Whatever that brings joy and happiness to the other; go for it.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Catherine,
I don't know what the OP should do. Just what I would do. 

Note what he's told us. His wife has a pretty consistent reaction to sex. She doesn't want it. She gives him time limits. Or let's him know in some other way she doesn't want to. 

If M2 ever responded to me initiating with: ok but you've got 10 minutes - I'd just shrug and say, some other time then. 

To me - the - you have X short amount of time is a very clear message. 

Unless he figures out WHY she doesn't want to have sex, this will only get worse. 

He doesn't like that she conveys a desire to avoid sex. But instead of addressing WHY, he presses ahead anyway. That sends its own message. 





Catherine602 said:


> But it's not win/win Farsidejunky.
> 
> She probably feels she is giving as much in the relationship as he is and feels her needs are not being met. I suspect that neither of them are giving what the other needs.
> 
> ...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Richard,

That's true. 





richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> In many cases here, none of those are true. There are a lot of LD people who just don't want sex. Its nothing the HD person is, or isn't doing. There simply is no desire there - for anyone.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MEM you are right. I missed that in the OP's posts. 

Whenever I read of a spouse that in essence humiliates and disrespects their spouse at such a vulnerable time, I cringe. It is so wrong to say hurry up or to make a show of displeasure. What kind of person puts the one they love in a vulnerable position and then treats them cruelly? 

This behavior has somehow become so normalized that is not questioned. It should be because covert cruel behavior needs to see the light. Can't hide behind righteousness and ignorance. 

The recipient fears that saying anything will make things worst and their partner thinks they are justified and would never identify what they are doing as abusive. I think not saying anything makes things worse. 

The person who is being abusive will deny it, however, if you ask them "do you scold your friend when they need to talk at a time when you are busy". Nice calm reasonable until they see what they are doing and you drive the message home that "we" will not treat "each other" as if we are enemies and with disrespect.


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The lack of sex is merley a symptom of other underlying issues in the marraige.

I suspect your wife is not being too truthful with you on certain issues.

She could have some hidden resentment for you, not be attracted to you any longer or may be engaged in an affair.

I would suggest doing some discreet digging on the affair possibillity. She might not be having one but i always believe that when there is a lack of sex in an otherwise young healthy relationship the possibillity that an affair is taking place should always be examined.

Does she keep a passcode on her phone, or often ring up of working back late etc?


----------



## mapetitecachou1 (Jan 24, 2016)

I just have a hard time believing that my husband wants sex because he wants to feel an emotional connection. I understand people have a natural need for affection, but let's be honest men like to screw and it isn't ALL about the emotional connection otherwise you wouldn't act like a wild animal when you do it. I really hate it that my husband ALWAYS wants to have sex as if 11 years and 3 kids later we haven't screwed enough. I'm bored of our life and all the sex on the world isn't going to make me excited to have more of the same. I see nothing wrong with once a month because I could go longer. I want to have sex more, but it's pointless. What does it make happen. I've experienced pretty much everything with him and can't think of anything new to look forward to. So, why the big push to have sex? It's like men don't have anything better to do. There are other things that I would like to do besides getting sweaty and having to shower yet again before I can get a good nights rest before the 5:30 am wake up to start the day and get the kids on the bus. Honestly I think after this long being married you have to bring more to the table than a night in the sack that requires me to do more work! And I think if you want it that badly you should just do it and leave me alone because I have other KIDS to take care of. Men are glorified babies! I am so sick if the sex whining. And it's almost like this caveman attitude: 'I am man and bread winner. Women has vagina and needs to satisfy me.' I wish the sex issue would end. I'm quite miserable about it really and after my vent, now I just feel like I could cry. Honestly, the pressure to have sex makes me feel like a teenager whose boyfriend keeps pressuring her to "go all the way". I just don't get after all these years why it's so important. and Why should you have my body all you want when I haven't gotten anything I want? A women's body married or not us still hers. Why do men think the should have free reign to do with it as the please?


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Sounds like your husband is not doing his job outside of the bedroom and you resent that. Possible?


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

mapetitecachou1, may I suggest you start a new thread and tell us your story?


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

mapetitecachou1 said:


> I just have a hard time believing that my husband wants sex because he wants to feel an emotional connection. I understand people have a natural need for affection, but let's be honest men like to screw and it isn't ALL about the emotional connection otherwise you wouldn't act like a wild animal when you do it. I really hate it that my husband ALWAYS wants to have sex as if 11 years and 3 kids later we haven't screwed enough. I'm bored of our life and all the sex on the world isn't going to make me excited to have more of the same. I see nothing wrong with once a month because I could go longer. I want to have sex more, but it's pointless. What does it make happen. I've experienced pretty much everything with him and can't think of anything new to look forward to. So, why the big push to have sex? It's like men don't have anything better to do. There are other things that I would like to do besides getting sweaty and having to shower yet again before I can get a good nights rest before the 5:30 am wake up to start the day and get the kids on the bus. Honestly I think after this long being married you have to bring more to the table than a night in the sack that requires me to do more work! And I think if you want it that badly you should just do it and leave me alone because I have other KIDS to take care of. Men are glorified babies! I am so sick if the sex whining. And it's almost like this caveman attitude: 'I am man and bread winner. Women has vagina and needs to satisfy me.' I wish the sex issue would end. I'm quite miserable about it really and after my vent, now I just feel like I could cry. Honestly, the pressure to have sex makes me feel like a teenager whose boyfriend keeps pressuring her to "go all the way". I just don't get after all these years why it's so important. and Why should you have my body all you want when I haven't gotten anything I want? A women's body married or not us still hers. Why do men think the should have free reign to do with it as the please?


What made you so bitter?

ETA: Follow Tommyr's advice and start a thread.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mapetitecachou1, wow what a crappy life you have. I wish you luck as youo move forward, because you are going to need it with your attitude


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Marriage isn't for everyone.


----------



## mapetitecachou1 (Jan 24, 2016)

Okguy said:


> Sounds like your husband is not doing his job outside of the bedroom and you resent that. Possible?


We are having financial difficulties. I'll be 38 this year and have recently gone back to school to complete my masters as I'm going back to work. On top of that I have been the primary caregiver for our oldest child with special needs. Other than the kids I just don't know what we have in the future. My husband is kind and a family man. I'm trying to let that be enough but it isn't. I am resentful of his business decisions that have completely ruined us financially. I don't enjoy our life together so I guess I don't find the idea of having sex fun. And isn't that the point? Sex is having fun?


----------



## mapetitecachou1 (Jan 24, 2016)

I'll try to start a new thread.


----------



## mapetitecachou1 (Jan 24, 2016)

Ynot said:


> mapetitecachou1, wow what a crappy life you have. I wish you luck as youo move forward, because you are going to need it with your attitude


My attitude comes from my personal experience with my husband. If I had a totally bad attitude I wouldn't be here trying to gain perspective. I did say that I vented so it was my anger talking. But, this seems like a common issue or you wouldn't be here either. I wouldn't judge you or say your attitude was screwed up. Everyone's feelings and emotions are valid.


----------



## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Can't really enjoy sex if everything else is messed up


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

@mapetitecachou1 Thank you for posting and I hope you start a tread. You may have to read some unpleasant comments from men who are on the other side of a sexual mismatch but those are useful just as is your perspective.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> @mapetitecachou1 Thank you for posting and I hope you start a tread. You may have to read some unpleasant comments from men who are on the other side of a sexual mismatch but those are useful just as is your perspective.


Who would do such a thing


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

john117 said:


> Who would do such a thing


I wonder. :scratchhead:

Hearing form men who are hurt is important for her (and all of us). More importantly, she can't be chased away by an angry mob because her perspective is very valuable and rarely heard. 

We hear from men all of the time but we have no idea what might be happening with their wives.


----------



## Theunguy (Jan 25, 2016)

Wives are important too ya know


----------



## Imissmywife (Jan 29, 2016)

First of all, there's nothing quite as unfair as demanding your spouse be "monogamous" with you and expect them to only have sex with you but then you refuse to ever give it up, put out, say "yes". I'm always amazed by these women that refuse to sleep with their husbands but then act completely victimized when their husbands cheat on them. Your husband was the victim first with your demands of monogamy and then refusal to be his partner in that area in life. 

:crying:


----------

