# Bothered me for two years



## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

Long post and not really sure why I'm posting it...But want to see if any of you have had a similar situation.

Three years ago my wife went on a girls trip to the beach with her best friend and they took the kids. The following year we visited the same location on spring break with her best friend, her husband and their kids. There is a well known restaurant at this beach and we all went there to eat. While we were eating my wife (while tipsy) announced she met a male friend from high school the previous year during the girls trip and they had lunch. It immediately took me as odd and as I looked up my wife's friend had a look of horror on her face. The "you just let the cat out of the bag" look. The wife realized what she said and said my daughter was there and this guys fiancé was at lunch. My wife's friend confirmed that my daughter was there and the guys fiancé was present....I didn't address it at the time.

I started thinking back and she had previously told me about her friend that lived in the area. She talked about him in a manner that concerned me. So I looked back at her Facebook and she posted a photo when they arrived at the beach. He responded "I didn't know you were here yet"...That ,to me, caused me to believe he knew she would be in the area prior to the picture. That means they had previous communication and he knew she would be in town. She did not respond to him and they met up for lunch so that means they had to have texted or taken it to PM. That's a bunch of red flags.

I would typically immediately believe she cheated but my daughter was with her and he did have a legitimate fiancé and got married three weeks after the girls trip. In addition I can see her best friend not mentioning the lunch meeting but she would not condone cheating or watch my daughter while cheating occurred. She is a strong Catholic and her dad cheated on her mom. She HATES cheaters with a passion that can't be described. The logistics are strongly against her cheating.


I would typically close the topic out by why did she hide it and or not tell me about it after the fact? My wife takes pictures of everything and post them to Facebook, why no pictures? Why did she take it off line after his comment on Facebook? Why did she tell her best friend not to mention the lunch? Why didn't she just tell me after the event? I'm not the jealous type and she knows I wouldn't have cared if she had lunch with a friend from high school.


My logical brain tells me she didn't physically cheat because of the logistics and company she was with
My gut absolutely tells me she had an emotional affair to hide it and took the measures she did..

I have no trust and it's been 2 years...We've since talked about it and agrees the "optics" look bad but uses the "your crazy to think I would cheat" position. If the tables were turned, she would be irate. 

I will never have hard evidence so there isn't much else that can be done. The damage is done, however 

I guess just venting..


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Well, she DID hide all this from you and hasn't really fessed up, has she? She hasn't taken any responsibility for it (and doesn't sound like she was really sorry). Was this male friend a FRIEND, or former BF/lover/interest?

Did you ever find out how they were communicating? If not, she needs to tell you that and SHOW you the communications.

You need answers to all this: 
"I would typically close the topic out by why did she hide it and or not tell me about it after the fact? My wife takes pictures of everything and post them to Facebook, why no pictures? Why did she take it off line after his comment on Facebook? Why did she tell her best friend not to mention the lunch? Why didn't she just tell me after the event? I'm not the jealous type and she knows I wouldn't have cared if she had lunch with a friend from high school.
"

SHE needs to work to make you comfortable about it. Has she spoken with him since? She needs to block him from ALL media/communications since she has such crappy boundaries.
In essence, I think you have every right to be upset and CONTINUE to be upset about it. She basically wants you to rug sweep, and it looks like you have for 2 years -- you need to clear that up NOW.

Does she realize that you don't trust her any more, and that is 100% HER FAULT. How long was she going to keep that a secret from you? She REALLY damaged the relationship and I don't think she realizes that -- you need to make her understand it. What ELSE has she hidden from you over the years?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

cheaters lie + FB + message I did not know you already arrived + girl friends face of horror +
hiding the fact of the meet up = polygraph time


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> cheaters lie + FB + message I did not know you already arrived + girl friends face of horror +
> hiding the fact of the meet up = polygraph time


:iagree:

I was just going to suggest that.

You also need to identify how much, if anything, your daughter knew or suspected.


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## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> Well, she DID hide all this from you and hasn't really fessed up, has she? She hasn't taken any responsibility for it (and doesn't sound like she was really sorry). Was this male friend a FRIEND, or former BF/lover/interest?
> 
> Did you ever find out how they were communicating? If not, she needs to tell you that and SHOW you the communications.
> 
> ...


Great points.. I will ask about the communications but if she felt I researched her post and there was nefarious content, she would have immediately deleted the communications...

She did not date him in high school but that doesn't ease my concern. She could have had a crush on him and just never acted on it due to timing...

..and she knows that it's an issue with me.


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## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I was just going to suggest that.
> 
> You also need to identify how much, if anything, your daughter knew or suspected.


I've thought about asking her but she was very young and I REALLY don't want to drag her into it. I don't think she would even know if anything inappropriate occurred. I would imagine my daughter was playing with my wife's friends kids on the playground and wasn't actually present at the lunch. The restaurant has a HUGE playground...

It does make me angry that my daughter was around for her mom to have lunch with another guy even if everything was 100% a friendly meet up...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tbnez said:


> I've thought about asking her but she was very young and I REALLY don't want to drag her into it. I don't think she would even know if anything inappropriate occurred. I would imagine my daughter was playing with my wife's friends kids on the playground and wasn't actually present at the lunch. The restaurant has a HUGE playground...
> 
> It does make me angry that my daughter was around for her mom to have lunch with another guy even if everything was 100% a friendly meet up...


But your daughter might know more than your wife suspects, which means she put her own daughter in a very poor situation.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Couldn’t your daughter have been dropped off with the friends so she could have alone time? If she still has that phone, you may be able to retrieve deleted text or pics. 

If it doesn’t make sense, then it’s most likely a lie. Her friends body language was the give away. She may not have dated the guy officially in the past but they may have had a FWB or an unrealized “thing” that they wanted to resolve before he got officially married.


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## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

jsmart said:


> Couldnâ€™t your daughter have been dropped off with the friends so she could have alone time? If she still has that phone, you may be able to retrieve deleted text or pics.
> 
> If it doesnâ€™t make sense, then itâ€™s most likely a lie. Her friends body language was the give away. She may not have dated the guy officially in the past but they may have had a FWB or an unrealized â€œthingâ€� that they wanted to resolve before he got officially married.


It is possible she could have been watched while my wife went out. My wife was staying at her friends parents condo and the parents could have been watching my daughter. I think it's highly unlikely that her parents would watch my daughter while my wife went out for fling while leaving her friend at the condo, however. 

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, however. Anything is possible and there is a reason the pieces don't fit and that I'm still questioning it two years later....and yes her friends body language was the biggest give away. Her friend went into damage control even before my wife did. She realized what my wife said and now that I think about it she was the one that brought up the fact that the fiancé and my daughter were at the lunch. Something either went down or my wife had told her that she wasn't going to tell me about the lunch. There was no reason for her rapid reaction and or response. 

What I can't wrap my hands around is why didn't she just tell me about the lunch prior or post the event. She knows I'm not jealous type and she knows I would have had no issues if they met up for lunch if she just had of informed me. I wouldn't have given it a second thought I'd she had of said "hey I ran into an old high school friend at lunch that lives at the beach". That would have been the been the end of the story. I didn't have trust issues prior to this event. Her actions to hide the event are what created the problem. The only driver I can think of for not telling me is guilt.

The girl that takes a photo of EVERYTHING and post it on social media conveniently forgot to take a picture of a happenstance meeting with a friend from high school and then just forgot to tell me about it when we talked a few hours later. There was definitely an attempt to hide the meet up.

Why go to such lengths to hide a completely "innocent" lunch? I know something isn't right...The odds of me proving it are near zero.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Tbnez said:


> Three years ago my wife went on a girls trip to the beach with her best friend and they took the kids. The following year we visited the same location on spring break with her best friend, her husband and their kids. There is a well known restaurant at this beach and we all went there to eat. While we were eating my wife (while tipsy) announced she met a male friend from high school the previous year during the girls trip and they had lunch. It immediately took me as odd and as I looked up *my wife's friend had a look of horror on her face. *The "you just let the cat out of the bag" look. The wife realized what she said and said my daughter was there and this guys fiancé was at lunch. My wife's friend confirmed that my daughter was there and the guys fiancé was present....I didn't address it at the time.
> 
> Unfortunately you really can't take your wife's friends word. People do lie you know
> 
> ...


Go back and check your phone data. It may still be available. But all you'd get is data which maybe a clue but nothing more.

If you want to get past this a polygraph is about your only option. If she's clean she should be glad to clear this up shouldn't she?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

TBNEZ,

You wrote,*She is a strong Catholic and her dad cheated on her mom. She HATES cheaters with a passion that can't be described. The logistics are strongly against her cheating.*

I can relate to what you wrote about your W hating cheating because of her cheating Fathers. My Ws Father was also a big time cheater, and my W would likely say that she hates cheaters because of the mental anguish she witnessed her Mother go through. That being said there’s also a piece of her psyche which is turned on by cheating.

How was your marriage before and after the “date” was there an increase or decrease in sex or passionate intensity?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Did you tell her that her lack of honesty killed and girl trips in the future?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

You might consider monitoring your wife's communications. Get access to her email with a keylogger if your can, or put a voice-activated recorder (VAR) in her car and in certain rooms in the house where she spends her time. 

And then you light a fuse. Not a real fuse, of course, but some fabricated event to get her talking. For example, you might send her an anonymous email saying "my fiance told me what you and he did 3 summers ago at the beach. You're a married woman! You should come clean to your husband." 

Then you sit back and see who she calls. Does she email the guy? Does she call one of her friends for advice? Does she panic?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"given it a second thought I'd she had of said "hey I ran into an old high school friend at lunch that lives at the beach". That would have been the been the end of the story. "
EXCEPT you already know now that it WAS pre-planned and NOT just a random -- oh, I ran into them.. thing.

I'm thinking that maybe polygraph may be the way to go here, but also before you do that, VAR her car/locations where she may talk with her GF. Also, see if you can get a hold of her phone and check her messages there... I agree with @Tatsuhiko....


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Tbnez said:


> I have no trust and it's been 2 years...We've since talked about it and agrees the "optics" look bad but uses the *"your crazy to think I would cheat" position*.


Let's just get this out of the way first.

This is called gas lighting.
Read up on it.
Today.



Tbnez said:


> While we were eating my *wife (while tipsy) announced she met a male friend from high school the previous year during the girls trip and they had lunch*. It immediately took me as odd and as I looked up *my wife's friend had a look of horror on her face. The "you just let the cat out of the bag" look*. *The wife realized what she said and said my daughter was there and this guys fiancé was at lunch*. My wife's friend confirmed that my daughter was there and the guys fiancé was present


Cheaters love to let you know how smart they are.
Cheaters love to let you know how clever they are.
Cheaters love to let you know how they are able to fool their stupid spouses.
Cheaters love to let you know how much they have been able to get away with.

Her friend is in on this.
She knew it was going to happen and lied about it to cover for your wife or your wife told her and she covered for her.

Either way, she knows what happened.
By her actions, she has shown she is not a friend to your marriage*

* this could be a weird coincidence and she is trying to keep your wife from... To be honest, I can't even come up with a good reason to explain why the friend is acting the way she is and it be in a favorable light for your marriage. 




Tbnez said:


> *She talked about him in a manner that concerned me.* So I looked back at her Facebook and she posted a photo when they arrived at the beach. *He responded "I didn't know you were here yet"*...That ,to me, caused me to believe he knew she would be in the area prior to the picture. *That means they had previous communication and he knew she would be in town*. She did not respond to him and they met up for lunch so that means they had to have texted or taken it to PM. That's a bunch of red flags.


So many red flags that it hurts



Tbnez said:


> She is a strong Catholic and her dad cheated on her mom. She HATES cheaters with a passion that can't be described. The logistics are strongly against her cheating.


Just stop. You're making excuses to justify her behavior.



Tbnez said:


> My logical brain tells me she didn't physically cheat because of the logistics and company she was with
> My gut absolutely tells me she had an emotional affair to hide it and took the measures she did..


Your logical brain tells you she didn't cheat because you logically don't want her to cheat.



Tbnez said:


> I will never have hard evidence so there isn't much else that can be done. The damage is done, however


*If you don't look *you will never have hard evidence.


You have a perfect storm that had to align just right in order for this information to come out.

Wife a little drunk.
Cheater arrogance.
Blabbing mouth.
Friend at dinner who knows the whole story get caught having to essentially lie to get your wife to shut up.

Don't rug sweep.

You gut is sending you alarms because there is a reason to be alarmed!

You just added a post:


Tbnez said:


> It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


Her action state otherwise.


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## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> TBNEZ,
> 
> You wrote,*She is a strong Catholic and her dad cheated on her mom. She HATES cheaters with a passion that can't be described. The logistics are strongly against her cheating.*
> 
> ...



It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

It sure sounds like something is up, and her phrase:

We've since talked about it and agrees the "optics" look bad but uses the "your crazy to think I would cheat" position."

Will her next step, will probably be accusing you of something close to taking the focus off if her. The the Gaslighting starts. Your gut is telling you something is up. And you know l would also get with your daughter and ask questions. It's not going to do anything but you'll know if she isn't telling the truth. 

Then, the above advice should be implemented to find the truth.


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## Tbnez (Jun 27, 2013)

Tilted 1 said:


> It sure sounds like something is up, and her phrase:
> 
> We've since talked about it and agrees the "optics" look bad but uses the "your crazy to think I would cheat" position."
> 
> ...


Definitely need to build a game plan...She has had the same phone prior to our marriage and I'm not on the account. I think finding details are going to be impossible outside of a polygraph which she wouldn't take (even if she wasn't guilty). 

If she cheated before, she will do it again so I may focus my efforts on tracking in the here and now and not try to research an issue that happened three years ago. If there was a "hole" in her life or a personal flaw that drove her to cheat three years ago, it still exist and she will do it again.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Even if you can't get her records (do you get paper bills? If you can find those look at it...), can you get her PHONE itself?
You can look through that and if you can get if for longer, there are apps that can recover deleted texts/pics/etc.. Do you have access to her email (pw?) Look there -- start investigating if you can.

If she uses your common computer, put a key logger on there to see what she is doing.

Try to do as much investigation as you can before you confront her.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Tbnez said:


> Definitely need to build a game plan...She has had the same phone prior to our marriage and I'm not on the account. I think finding details are going to be impossible outside of a polygraph which she wouldn't take (even if she wasn't guilty).
> 
> If she cheated before, she will do it again so I may focus my efforts on tracking in the here and now and not try to research an issue that happened three years ago. If there was a "hole" in her life or a personal flaw that drove her to cheat three years ago, it still exist and she will do it again.


I agree, its a character flaw in her and yes it tends to get repeated, after the first time to them it just gets easier for them. Have you noticed any of the things I mentioned?


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

What do you mean she wont take polygraph? Explane to her that she has broken trust with you and that marriage can not continue untill she takes a polygraph to prove that she didnt cheated. If she still doesnt want to do it,there is your answer,she is guilty.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

If she did that there is more. That kind of thing is never a one time deal. Just investigate her and I bet you will find a house of lies. 

Here is the thing you find, character is character and morals are morals. Now yes people can meet someone at work and that grow to an affair. But the kind of person who meets and old boyfriend for dinner and doesn't tell her husband has poor character and has been doing that kind of crap in every relationship in their life. It's their MO because it's in their nature. 

Again, just instigate your wife, there will be more, there always is.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

It’s possible she may never slip up again. Some people cheat once, and just take it to the grave. Some people get one DUI, and never drink and drive again.

So why wouldn’t she take a poly? Has she been asked to before and refused?

If she is innocent then wouldn’t she welcome the opportunity to put your fears to rest?

Or, do you really, I mean really, want to know what happened? Or would that force a decision, confirm a reality, you don’t want to face? If that is the case then, yes, play junior detective for the rest of your married life. It will placate the voice of doubt in the back of your mind. Not sure for how long though.

But, if you really want to know, you demand (not ask) for the poly. Tell her refusal will be seen by you as both an admission of guilt, and request for a divorce. And back it up. No theatrics. No yelling or begging. No backing down when she argues, or threatens, or cries. Let any appeal to emotion bounce off you like a paper airplane.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Tbnez said:


> Definitely need to build a game plan...She has had the same phone prior to our marriage and I'm not on the account.



Perhaps time to implement Fonelab. Look it up.

Can you get some alone time with her phone? Without her knowing about it?


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

Tbnez said:


> Definitely need to build a game plan...She has had the same phone prior to our marriage and I'm not on the account. I think finding details are going to be impossible outside of a polygraph which she wouldn't take (even if she wasn't guilty).
> 
> If she cheated before, she will do it again so I may focus my efforts on tracking in the here and now and not try to research an issue that happened three years ago. If there was a "hole" in her life or a personal flaw that drove her to cheat three years ago, it still exist and she will do it again.


Your wife's action have put your marriage in jeopardy. Her refusal to take a polygraph is further evidence that she did something and that you cannot trust her. Perhaps it's time to tell her that the future of your marriage is in doubt.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Honestly, there is enough there for me.

Mrs. C would never endanger our marriage by conspiring to meet a man behind my back and cover it up.

Total bull ****.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Yeah... not good. You know what's going on. Time to put on your detective hat.

READ: How to catch your wife cheating.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Tbnez said:


> It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


You're being so naive.

There's the way things SHOULD be, and the way things *ARE*. You're being foolish and short-sighted and keep trying to self-delude with ridiculous 'absolutes' that don't exist, like convincing yourself nothing could have happened just because her friend is Catholic and wouldn't stand for it. That ridiculous theory MIGHT hold water if your wife's oh so "Catholic" friend hadn't already proved to you that she *IS* willing to lie for your wife. Otherwise, you would have known about that secret luncheon 2 years ago, wouldn't you have?



> I think finding details are going to be impossible outside of a polygraph which she wouldn't take (even if she wasn't guilty).


And WHY do you suppose that is?

You need to spine up and start taking care of business. This woman is walking all over you. You don't ASK Miss Thang if she'll take a poly - you TELL Miss Thang she'll be taking one and you make sure you've got one booked.

See how that works?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Come on, the friend was covering for her. She would come up with an excuse to tell her parents so that your wife can have an afternoon with the OM. The reason there were no pics, of a lunch at the beach, was because of who it was with. A social media junkie would NOT have passed up putting pics of having lunch at some place on the beach. This hook up was probably a long time in the making. they probably billed it as there last chance to hook up before he got married. He obviously cared about the marriage vows he was going to make. Your wife and mother of your child, not to much.

Hopefully it was just a one time hook up and there's no more to worry about. Haven't you done that with some woman during your marriage? Oh, you haven't right. Then you better take this a little more serious and stop accepting the obvious BS answers you've received.


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

Get her phone and look at it . Check her face book and all . Look at pm messages in facebook . They was talking before the trip and I would say they still are . Just because her from is catholic doesn't mean she wouldn't let your wife cheat .


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Trust your gut. 

Here's what mine says. 

Your wife had a thing for this guy. Either a prior FWB relationship or a crush. She knew she was going to a place where he lived. She wanted to see him. It felt wrong but she wanted to do it anyway, so she met up with him in secret. My gut says they didn't meet up to have sex, but she couldn't resist seeing him and told her friend you wouldn't like it, so she said to not say anything. They had a non-sexual lunch to talk about old times. Inappropriate, but with the kids around, etc. she wasn't going to physically cheat. But still, didn't want you to know about it. So when she blurted it out, her friend's eyes went wide. And yes, definitely premeditated. 

Bottom line, she was going to see this guy and hide it from you. Bad. Though, given the circumstances I doubt it was a sexual encounter.

You have to decide if you agree with all of that, of course. But even if you do....she met a man and hid it from you. That's not appropriate marriage behavior. 

Do not let this fester. You should communicate exactly why you are upset. Tell her this is not acceptable spousal behavior. And that because of this you haven't been able to trust her. And that it's on her to convince you otherwise. And that it won't be easy.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Tbnez said:


> It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


OP

As a Catholic let me say this : We're human, not saints. We fail. We're not perfect.

Could the friend have covered for your W? Absolutely.


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## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

The friend is a proven lier and thus you can not asume she would object to anything. However, since your wife brought up the lunch herself what happened can not be to bad acording to her at least or she would not have brought it up.

So i think she met the guy, the friend did agree to cover for it and also thinks it was a bad thing but unless your W is a psyco with no morals she did not take it physical.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I believe honesty is a cornerstone to any good marriage. 

It is logical to believe that the OM was aware that your wife was coming to his town prior to her arriving, thus some type of meeting was planned. She definitely had communication with him before the trip. The lunch could have been completely innocent so why not tell you about it? Why did her friend look so shocked when it came out? Why the attempts to make it look innocent (daughter, fiancee)? Why did she not tell you? Guilt.

Has she at least admitted that she contacted him before the trip? 

Regardless of what happened, she lied by hiding the truth from you.

The trust and honesty is gone and once gone, is hard to come back. Especially while unanswered questions are present.

More questions are not going to get you any answers. 

How long married?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I'll say this people are human, and thus make mistakes you just caught this in her moment, of a warm and fuzzy moment. Take this to the bank and due your due diligence, to uncover it all and the other friends with the big eyes is no friend and doesn't belong in your circle. Just saying.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Grab her phone without her knowing about it late some Friday night.

Contact the guy and tell him that you know all about the meeting between the two of them and you just want to confirm everything with him. Tell him that your wife broke down and told you everything, And that as long as his story matches up completely with hers, you will try to get through this with your wife. However, if his version differs in any way, you will be filing for divorce.

Then fight the urge to interrupt his story.

Good luck


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Better yet, do the same thing to her friend. The friend is more than likely to tell the truth to save the marriage if you say if her story matches your wife’s, you will work to save the marriage. 

At some point during the conversation, get up and say, “that’s not what wife said, looks like divorce coming my way”. The friend will probably start telling the truth


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Might also want to get with catholic friends husband one on one and find out what he knows, she might have talked to him.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Tbnez said:


> It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


Yet she would assist with what is obviously a cover up?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Kamstel said:


> Grab her phone without her knowing about it late some Friday night.
> 
> Contact the guy and tell him that you know all about the meeting between the two of them and you just want to confirm everything with him. Tell him that your wife broke down and told you everything, And that as long as his story matches up completely with hers, you will try to get through this with your wife. However, if his version differs in any way, *you will contact his wife.*
> 
> ...


While I'm not totally on board with this...if you do it, do the bold instead.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

IMO every spouse has an obligation to conduct themselves in a manner that is not suspicious. Why? So their spouse feels safe from infidelity.

Even though they never dated and there's no record of texts or a previous flirty connection.
If the lunch with an old friend was innocent, why did she not mention it?
I agree, pre planning a lunch with another man and not disclosing it (together with her body language) is suspicious. 

I suggest you're focusing on the wrong event. On the surface the lunch appeared innocent (with your daughter) but in all probability set the stage for further 'dates'. And it's the subsequent date(s) that your wife wants to cover up. 

Her friend knows (and giving the friend the benefit of the doubt) about the date(s) - but your wife probably characterized it as just friends catching up or he's going through a tough time and needs her shoulder to cry on.

If you can't live with this, I'd confront on the lie (yes it's a lie by omission) and the destruction of trust by her cover up. She broke your trust and only she can fix this (it's not appropriate for you to suck it up). I'm surprised she didn't volunteer to take a polygraph test in order to show good faith. In order to reset trust, your wife should take a polygraph test. It's a tough sell because you waited two years and I bet she won't agree unless she believes (really believes) you're ready to divorce.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Your wife’s friend had a look of horror. 

Your wife’s friend began damage control.

Your wife contacted OM prior to meeting.

Your wife has her own phone plan.

Your wife won’t take a poly.

Your wife pulls the crazy card.

Your wife’s friend was talked into babysitting.

Your wife has cheated. 

Here it is, take a polygraph here, turn over all phone records, place a call to om’s Fiancé now wife. Ask if she was present. Her reaction of anger and a defiant answer of no will tell you all you need to know. Oh, and inform best friends husband that his wife covered for a cheater and the same may happen or happened to him. See a divorce attorney and leave divorce papers laying on your table. Why? Because your wife would demand more, so you demand more even though the optics LOOK bad. Then tell your wife she’s CRAZY if you believe her lies.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Doubt in any relationship is a game changer.

I have heard it said that a good name is easy to lose, almost impossible to restore.

Why would anyone put themselves in a position that would cause doubt in their spouse.

They are not primarily concerned about their partner's happiness, or well being, but they are being selfish, or worse.

They are focusing on deniability, not reliability. 

You might comment to her, "you apparently don't value me or your marriage very highly".

This is the state of your marriage. 

It's a hell of a way to live. I'm sorry.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Tbnez said:


> It's not my wife that's the Catholic, it's her best friend. She would not support, condone or assist my wife with cheating....


She might not have know until after the fact. Also you have never asked her directly if something happened that you should know about. She was way to quick with her responses, she had to have been thinking about it. Just like your wife was. 

I would suggest a polygraph. Don’t ask your wife to take one. Find the best one in your area and explain what is going on. They will help you formulate the questions. Then just take your wife there. Once there let her know what is going on. If she refuses to do it then you know she hasn’t told you the truth.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

If she won’t do a poly then try this. 

Sit down with your friends by yourself. 

Explain that your marriage is going down the drain because of the broken trust. 

Then ask the wife if something happened that your wife asked her to keep quiet about. That you saw the look of horror in her face when your wife brought it up. That it was not just because she had lunch with a old friend and his fiancé. 

The only other thing would be to get her phone and run a recovery app. and go through to see if anything is there.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Tbnez said:


> Definitely need to build a game plan...She has had the same phone prior to our marriage and I'm not on the account. I think finding details are going to be impossible outside of a polygraph which she wouldn't take (even if she wasn't guilty).
> 
> If she cheated before, she will do it again so I may focus my efforts on tracking in the here and now and not try to research an issue that happened three years ago. If there was a "hole" in her life or a personal flaw that drove her to cheat three years ago, *it still exists and she will do it again*.


Maybe.

Her friend hates cheating and cheaters, hence the look on her face when she blabbed out what was hidden and what had occurred. She was probably told before hand that your wife was going to meet up with this guy. And she admonished her at the time for pulling this crap on her. She wanted no part of it (the girlfriend). She probably told your wife that no good will come of it.

I do not think she physically cheated, no.
I do think she let him know she was coming and that she had been in communication with him, prior.

Facebook has a way of bringing people together, especially those that have similar and close 'past' histories.

Friends of friends, friends of high school friends, manipulated by Facebook, pushed hard together by software. Those sneaky algorithms pull together opportunities to dream, to meet, and some to act and to cheat.

The friend knows the whole thing was inappropriate. And the man she met was likely more than a friend in high school. Her GF knew this, as she was likely told this, and this is why she was wary and likely outspoken on them meeting up.

The fact that the old high school pal, brought his fiancee to the restaurant clears him of wrongdoing, but not your wife. She had ulterior motives and certainly feelings for the guy.

And yes, she should have told you everything. She did not because she had prior contact and feelings for the guy.

My take?
Let this incident pass. 

Yes, keep a close eye on her and her communications in the future. 
You already said you would do this. 
You need to find out her password to her phone, that is a must.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Family plans are more economical and if you set it up then you will have control of the records.

BUY her a new phone .... open up a family plan - and put an end to the separate phone plan.

Then take the old phone and have a pro exam it.

Even if you find nothing on the old phone, you'll be in a better position to "trust but verify" going forward.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Robert22205 said:


> Family plans are more economical and if you set it up then you will have control of the records.
> 
> BUY her a new phone .... open up a family plan - and put an end to the separate phone plan.
> 
> ...


Good idea!!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Yet she would assist with what is obviously a cover up?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


She did, and she was obviously not happy with being put in this position. 
She was waiting for this incident to come to light, hence, she was prepared to blurt out that his fiancee was present.
Could that have been a lie? Maybe.

She is a good friend to your wife, and 'might' have been a good friend to your marriage in this incident.

She tried to make it sound less onerous by knowing and saying the OM's fiancee was present.

The friend has some pride in her integrity.
As I see it, from the limited information given.

..................................................................................

To put this to rest, OM must meet with this, her girl friend, one on one, secretly.

He must sit down with her and say:

_I know my wife had prior communications with this man.
I know you had issues with this.

It appears there was some emotional feelings from my wife to this man.
You were made aware of this and it bothered you at the time, still does.

Where am I right, where am I wrong?
Where do I stand, presently, with my wife, in your opinion?

I promise you that I will not reveal that we have talked.
This will remain between us._

OP, keep your word, do not let out that you talked to her friend.


QN-


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I forgot to add in my last post some critical information I get from your post. You mention that if the roles were reversed she would be very upset or even livid. You also say she won’t take a polygraph innocent or not. So if I may give you my opinion, your wife thinks she can control the outcome by dismissing what happened. In other words, rug sweep to protect her dating while married. 

Here is the hard truth for you, and unless you give a consequence this will become your lifestyle. 
1) explain the Facebook talk as she was in communication prior to going. 
2) she met him and made plans with him without mentioning it to you.
3) these first two acts cause a lack of trust in a marriage. 
4) you tell her to shove her line of you are crazy to think I’d cheat on you up her ass. The first two items listed above require a full explanation. 
5) no, I have a lack of trust for you, therefore a polygraph is the only way I will accept to move forward in this marriage. 
6) contact the fiancée of the OM and ask her if she enjoyed lunch with your wife three weeks before her wedding. 
7) tell your wife this, if the roles were reversed, you would be livid, and why, because your WIFE won’t allow you to date while married. Full truth needs to be told now. 
8) show you will not back down, get divorce papers and begin to fill them out. 
9) have your wife explain why her daughter isn’t saying anything about the date. The reason, because your daughter wasn’t there. 
10) move her belongings from the marital bedroom to another bedroom or basement. If you have neither, put them in the garage. Tell your wife she can come back to the marital bedroom after she completes this list. 

Talk to your friend, what she doesn’t say will be all you need to know, and do this with your friends husband present. Your friends owe you nothing, so they may not talk, but tell them the only way forward for you then is to divorce. Being a devout catholic she may talk some, but she isn’t going to give you the full rundown unless you make her a partner in the cheating. Good luck.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I know this....

My, contrary thought.

If your wife's friend blabs out that you secretly met with her and questioned what 'went on' that day/time at the beach GNO, ah, it will not go well.
All hell will blow up.



King Brian-


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You’re focusing on the wrong thing, man. And at any rate all of this should have been sorted out two years ago so you’re going to look like a crazy person digging out a lunch she had 3 years ago that you discovered 2 years ago.

So don’t go there about the lunch date.

Go there about honesty. 

“Wife, I’ve been thinking about why you weren’t honest with me about that lunch date you had years ago. Why didn’t you tell me about it?”

And then just sit there and listen. Don’t react, don’t engage, don’t do anything. Just listen. 

When she’s done, ask her what else she hasn’t been honest with you about. And then do the same thing again.

When she’s done that, smile, nod, thank her for her answers and walk away. Post here. That we can help you with. Going all magnum PI on a lunch with your daughter 3 years ago that might have been totally platonic isn’t going to get you anywhere, because it’s not the problem. 

Lack of honesty in your marriage is the problem.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Marduk said:


> You’re focusing on the wrong thing, man. And at any rate all of this should have been sorted out two years ago so you’re going to look like a crazy person digging out a lunch she had 3 years ago that you discovered 2 years ago.
> 
> So don’t go there about the lunch date.
> 
> ...




I would agree with this, but..... it was a date. She contacted him prior to leaving, met with him, and friend had horror on her face when wife said something. He should go hardcore PI on her in my opinion. I would also give her the truth serum (alcohol) that made her admit what she did. It wasn’t a platonic lunch, it was a date as she had contacted previously. She could have admitted that much, but that had to be found out by accessing Facebook. In all honesty, honesty left the building because it never entered. She won’t say anything, because she now knows it looks very bad and admitting anything else will bury her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

drifting on said:


> I would agree with this, but..... it was a date. She contacted him prior to leaving, met with him, and friend had horror on her face when wife said something. He should go hardcore PI on her in my opinion. I would also give her the truth serum (alcohol) that made her admit what she did. It wasn’t a platonic lunch, it was a date as she had contacted previously. She could have admitted that much, but that had to be found out by accessing Facebook. In all honesty, honesty left the building because it never entered. She won’t say anything, because she now knows it looks very bad and admitting anything else will bury her.


At this point, the trail is 3 years cold and happened in another town.

What exactly do you think he’ll find?


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

3 words....
1). Polygraph
2). Polygraph 
3). Polygraph


Good luck and stay strong


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I would agree with this, but..... it was a date. She contacted him prior to leaving, met with him, and friend had horror on her face when wife said something. He should go hardcore PI on her in my opinion. *I would also give her the truth serum (alcohol) that made her admit what she did.* It wasn’t a platonic lunch, it was a date as she had contacted previously. She could have admitted that much, but that had to be found out by accessing Facebook. In all honesty, honesty left the building because it never entered. She won’t say anything, because she now knows it looks very bad and admitting anything else will bury her.


I agree with this. Get her wasted then question her.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Marduk said:


> At this point, the trail is 3 years cold and happened in another town.
> 
> What exactly do you think he’ll find?




Honestly, not much, unless he decides to play severe hardball with friend and his wife. Truthfully the friend is the one who I would question. The friend is the one who showed horror, the friend is the one who went into damage control, the friend is the one who gave the look to the wife. Let’s face it, the trail is cold, but cold cases get solved too. The wife you can only question drunk, otherwise she has no moral compass and push the crazy card. The friend, while having no obligation, can be pushed by naming her a partner, and one who either went along or is actively lying by omission. The friend knows what happened, you just need to push her as a willing accomplice and a few bible quotes to show her how she is just as guilty. Keeping the deception going is still actively betraying God. Push, push harder and one will talk, the only way to find the truth.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> I know this....
> 
> My, contrary thought.
> 
> ...




The exact reason for questioning said friend, this will eventually cause one to begin talking more, these are friends I could accept in losing. After all, how good of friends are they if they help cover up a date?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

As others have already said. being troubled about it is completely normal when you havent got all the facts (the truth) - hell its difficult even when you do have all the facts.

You will have no peace and will never be at peace until your gut is satisfied that you now have something close to the truth. So as many are telling you, it is poly time. Don't let it go as you will be tormented forever.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Marduk said:


> You’re focusing on the wrong thing, man. And at any rate all of this should have been sorted out two years ago so you’re going to look like a crazy person digging out a lunch she had 3 years ago that you discovered 2 years ago.
> 
> So don’t go there about the lunch date.
> 
> ...


If it was totally platonic then her friend would've never reacted like that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why did they go to that beach town? 

Why did you all go back to the same place? 

Are you positive she did not see him on the second trip? How? 

How does she know him? 

How much have they communicated that you’re aware of? 

What are your marriage details? As asked before, how is your sex life? Cheaters rarely cheat without leaving clues.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Tbnez Catholics have the Confessional, so she might have made her peace with the Lord with whatever penance her Priest assigned to her, to atone for her sin of helping your wife cover up her assignation with the OM.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Tbnez, I agree in general with all the comments but want to take a slightly different focus.

When trust is lost in a marriage it is impossible to feel love, to feel safe, or to feel close. It poisons everything, and it makes you question everything else she says or does. This is the actual problem with any form of infidelity. Most people are not virgins when they get married, so the fact that they have sex with someone else doesn't make marriage impossible. When there is sexual infidelity it is bad but the problem is the betrayal not the sex itself. Your wife probably fell in love with someone else before you and said she loved him. But if she said them to someone while married to you it is a huge betrayal.

What you are suffering now is the trauma of the betrayal which happened and the loss of trust which results. You don't know the details of the betrayal but you know she did something disloyal to the marriage. If it was just a lunch with a guy she had a teen crush on, it isn't a big thing except that the way she went about it was a betrayal. Did she do more than just have lunch with him? In a way it doesn't really matter very much at all. 

So don't get all hung up on finding out all the details of exactly what did or didn't happen. The problem is her behavior has killed your trust in her, which has severely damaged the marriage.

I would approach her from this angle, and I would suggest marriage therapy with someone who is good with recovering from infidelity. What she did is not as extreme as what many do, but the recovery process will be the same. She has to understand that what she did was wrong and she has to feel true remorse for causing you to hurt. She has to make amends. She has to understand how she came to think it was ok to do what she did, and she has to change so that she can't do it again. The guidance of a good therapist will help. I don't think this is usually a DIY project.

I think you need to be firm and loving at first, but if she refuses to participate or if she continues to stonewall (gaslight?) then you need to turn cold and hard. Explain to her the problem is the damage to trust. Tell her that she needs to discuss openly everything about what happened, because without that honesty there is only deception. She needs to reach capitulation so that she willingly participates in the process of rebuilding trust.

It could be that what happened wasn't really anything. But the way it happened is everything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Also, trust your gut. If you feel something isn't right, you're almost certainly correct.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I think OP has left the building. He hasn't signed in since the 14th.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I don't agree with the majority of posters in this thread. 

Yeah, for some reason your wife didn't have the confidence to tell you she AND your daughter were going to meet a friend AND his fiance. It could have been fear you weren't going to be in ok with the meeting or something else.

How's your marriage now a days? Do you think she trusts you? Are you controlling in any way? Does she have a social life outside your marriage? 

If you guys have a good marriage, I'd ask her directly the reason why she didn't tell you about the meeting. To me it wasn't a "date" it was a meeting.

It's not too late to ask. You need peace of mind since you obviously are losing sleep wondering what happened. Just ask her directly, if you can't do it, then there's some communication issues going on in your marriage. 

Many posters have given you many scenarios, but what you really need is her explanation. Just ask!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes just ask her and she is sure to tell you the truth! Because that is our collective experience here! Why didn't you think of that ?




Tbnez said:


> Long post and not really sure why I'm posting it...But want to see if any of you have had a similar situation.
> 
> Three years ago my wife went on a girls trip to the beach with her best friend and they took the kids. The following year we visited the same location on spring break with her best friend, her husband and their kids. There is a well known restaurant at this beach and we all went there to eat. While we were eating my *wife (while tipsy) announced she met a male friend from high school the previous year during the girls trip and they had lunch.* It immediately took me as odd and as I looked up *my wife's friend had a look of horror on her face. The "you just let the cat out of the bag" look*. The wife realized what she said and* said my daughter was there and this guys fiancé was at lunch. My wife's friend confirmed that my daughter was there and the guys fiancé was present....I didn't address it at the time.* *Yes of course - she must have been telling the truth and her friend could not possibly be covering for her!*
> 
> ...


So many questions unanswered - just ask her!


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> @Tbnez Catholics have the Confessional, so she might have made her peace with the Lord with whatever penance her Priest assigned to her, to atone for her sin of helping your wife cover up her assignation with the OM.


While I would not like to second guess, I would be surprised if penance would not include honesty about it with her husband.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Thor said:


> When there is sexual infidelity it is bad but the problem is the betrayal not the sex itself.


What makes you think this? There's STDs, Paternity Fraud, and many other problems that come with infidelity.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor 


> When there is sexual infidelity it is bad but the problem is the betrayal not the sex itself.
> What makes you think this? There's STDs, Paternity Fraud, and many other problems that come with infidelity.





BruceBanner said:


> What makes you think this? There's STDs, Paternity Fraud, and many other problems that come with infidelity.


 All the things you listed were the effects of betrayal (causality) which came first, even before the sex, so I have to agree with Thor on that.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BruceBanner said:


> If it was totally platonic then her friend would've never reacted like that.


My point is this:

If it’s platonic, then the lying is the problem. 

If it’s not platonic, then the lying is still the problem. 

If you talk to people years after they’ve been cheated on, the deceit is the key component that ends the relationship. Trust is the relationship. Without that, you have nothing. 

Would you rather be told your relationship is over before or after the involvement with another person?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Marduk said:


> My point is this:
> 
> If it’s platonic, then the lying is the problem.
> 
> ...


I kind of disagree... 

If it was platonic, there would be no lying... It was not platonic...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BluesPower said:


> I kind of disagree...
> 
> If it was platonic, there would be no lying... It was not platonic...


Sure it can.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

pastasauce79 said:


> I don't agree with the majority of posters in this thread.
> 
> Yeah, for some reason your wife didn't have the confidence to tell you she AND your daughter were going to meet a friend AND his fiance.* It could have been fear you weren't going to be in ok with the meeting or something else.*
> 
> ...



And this right here is reason enough that she should not have done it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I suspect if your W told you she was planning on meeting an old boyfriend you would be upset about. However, your W desiring to see what she may have missed out on or allowing the old boyfriend to see what he missed out on...she went on the lunch without your knowledge. Perhaps if she came clean about her intentions and your thoughts this would not have been an issue 2 years later. This then raises the question, what else has your W done that may have upset you and without your knowledge. 

I don't think anything physical happened or this is a EA. It is a lie and cover up that is the problem.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

samyeagar said:


> And this right here is reason enough that she should not have done it.


Without the OP's response we are speculating the reasons why his wife didn't tell him about the meeting.

I have the feeling she's got her reasons and they don't communicate well. I'm speculating of course.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> I suspect if your W told you she was planning on meeting an old boyfriend you would be upset about. However, your W desiring to see what she may have missed out on or allowing the old boyfriend to see what he missed out on...she went on the lunch without your knowledge. Perhaps if she came clean about her intentions and your thoughts this would not have been an issue 2 years later. This then raises the question, what else has your W done that may have upset you and without your knowledge.
> 
> I don't think anything physical happened or this is a EA. It is a lie and cover up that is the problem.


I have what I would call a "normalized" relationship with my first, and only prior (to my wife), girlfriend. My wife knows her pretty well also, but that came years later, after my wife and I married. There is certainly zero possibility that I would hook up with my ex-gf. 

BUT- I would not even think about seeing my ex-gf, even on a professional level (she's a customer), without letting my wife know. I couldn't imagine a scenario otherwise. Even though the two of us (myself and my ex-gf) share similar sports activities and it would be easy to see each other innocently in social or other gatherings. But it just wouldn't happen. There's no animosity between any of us. She's got a nice family too. When she comes by the shop, we can chat about what's new, but we wouldn't go to a coffee shop or out to lunch for that. 

It's just a boundary thing, y'know? Nobody feels awkward about it. But I think it's the way it should be, especially since, in my case, she's one of only two.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

BruceBanner said:


> What makes you think this? There's STDs, Paternity Fraud, and many other problems that come with infidelity.


Yes but the point was something a bit different.

For most of us, our spouse was not a virgin when we met. It was ok that they had been sexual with someone other than us. Even if we weren't thrilled with that idea, it was not a disqualifier to being married to them that they had experienced sex with someone other than us.

Ergo, sex with someone else (in those simple wide open terms) is not by itself reason to not be married to our spouse. What we see over and over is that the betrayed spouse has extreme difficulty dealing with the betrayal, dishonesty, and deceptions that their cheating spouse engaged in. Yes, the sex with someone else does damage the marriage relationship, perhaps fatally. But the sex with someone else is not, for most people, the biggest problem for the marriage to overcome.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Thor said:


> Yes but the point was something a bit different.
> 
> For most of us, our spouse was not a virgin when we met. It was ok that they had been sexual with someone other than us. Even if we weren't thrilled with that idea, it was not a disqualifier to being married to them that they had experienced sex with someone other than us.
> 
> Ergo, sex with someone else (in those simple wide open terms) is not by itself reason to not be married to our spouse. What we see over and over is that the betrayed spouse has extreme difficulty dealing with the betrayal, dishonesty, and deceptions that their cheating spouse engaged in. Yes, the sex with someone else does damage the marriage relationship, perhaps fatally. But the sex with someone else is not, for most people, the biggest problem for the marriage to overcome.


Those are two totally different situations.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The big problem is he just doesn't know. One way or the other.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

As it was said already, the polygraph is a must and if not accept that if no as an omission of guilt and go on from there. Because if the wife wants the marriage she will fight for it. But the OP knows his wife and what she is capable of.


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