# Husband's anger getting worse. Now he says it's over.



## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Hi everyone.

I have been reading this forum for around 2 years now and have followed some of the advice given to others with similar marriage problems to mine. But now I am at a loss and I don't really know what to do anymore.

My mind has been on overdrive for the last few weeks and I really dont want to make this into a long post so I will just let you know what has happened in these last few weeks which seems to have brought everything to a head.

Background- Married 20yrs, both mid 40's, 2 teen girls, SAHM, H works away (always has 32 yrs), moved from UK to OZ 5 yrs ago.

Everytime H comes home (for 3/4 weeks) we seem to have the same pattern. Affectionate, attentive, sex etc for the first 4/5 days. Then H starts drinking nearly every night 10/12 beers sometimes more but denies it and his anger is getting worse which nobody but me and the kids see. Has 1 night off a week because he wants sex (can't perform with alcohol) Spends hours by himself on his tablet playing freecell. I start to feel like his "mother" as he wont doesnt join in/be active with family life, responsibilities or decisions. I have the same conversation with him about what is going on and I get told "I'm fine" or dont get a reaction. But what he says and how he behaves dont make sense. This carries on, I feel hurt and on my own and eventually shut down until an argument, we talk, both try and for the last few days before he goes back to work we are like we are when he first comes home.

Well this time has been a bit different. H came home and we went away for a few days, just us on his suggestion, all went well. Came home and ok for a few days. Then the drinking started. I dont mind him having a few but he will have 2/3 beer to everyone else's 1 and maybe in 2 mouthfuls. His anger is getting worse when drinking too. Things had happened regarding him (sober) distancing himself, putting others first, etc that I just broke down like never before and it seemed that when spoke something maybe clicked in him and we both understand and promised to try. 

A week later we were at friends and he was just gulping down beers. Saying stuff which he thought was funny but everyone else thought and said it wasn't. It was either sleezy or offensive. I just looked at him and shook my head. They needed someone to let in workmen and H said he would do it eventhough we had just finished talking about our daughters graduation ceremony the same day. I just looked at him in shock. The friends said "No you have things on" His expresion just said "ok the" looked at me and didnt speak. We came home and I started to cook tea. He mumbled something and I said I had everything I needed. He then came inside, stood in the kitchen, fists clenched, face tight, full of anger (which happens a lot now even having a general conversation) then he went outside to sit by himself. I left him 10 mins and went to see him. Maybe I shouldn't but I just need him to talk to me. He was so full of rage that when I mentioned how much he had to drink, he growled at me "yeah and I will be drinking a lot more". I just calmly said "well I wont be sleeping in the same bed" (he has started to wet the bed again when drunk) I left him to it and he then threw his bottle against the shed. Stormed inside screaming at me, eyes wide, chest puffed. He went into our bedroom and I followed to ask what the hell was going on. He got in my face yelling at me that he had tried, it was and has always been my fault and that it was over. The next day he got up and acted as if nothing had happened. We had a family day planned but when the kids refused to go he pleaded and begged. We I spoke to him in the morning ( I was so hurt and in tears) about splitting up he asked me where I would go and then later said he din't mean it and it wasnt what he wanted, but no apology. He then became like a little boy overeager to please.

I was so hurt again that I just couldnt speak or even look at him. I have made an appointment to see a counsellor, for me. I told H and his reply was "Do you want me to go and see one". I said that was up to him, I am doing this for me. He is now back at work.

He phones on Skype everyday as usual, but it is very strained,more on my part, unlike previous times. I have my first counselling appointment on 8/1 and H is home on 9/1. We have a family holiday booked for 9 days on 14/1 which H asked me to book a few months ago. Our eldest daughter,17, has told me to leave him as he will never change but at the moment it really is not a option. When things are going well life is good but we seem to have hit a turning point. We have read "His needs, her needs" which helped, I think but that has been thrown back in my face. I have also read about passive aggression.

I have my faults too but I am so emotionally burnt out at the moment that things just seem to be a struggle. We have booked a trip back to the UK in 6 months (first since moving) which we both agreed on. I would really like to get some understanding of it all to make some decisions and try and be happy again so any advice would be greatly appreaciated.

Sorry this has became a long post but it has helped me to write it down. There is more to tell if it would help, just ask. Thanks for reading


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I know it feels confusing because you are in the middle of this emotional whirlwind...but the problem is pretty clear: your husband has a drinking problem. Your entire family is held hostage to his addiction cycle of which you are regularly getting your hopes dashed. Don't take stock in anything the man says while he is drunk...he just says these things a lot because he is drunk a lot. 

Having said that, this lifestyle is not sustainable. Your kids are sick of it. You are exhausted. Time to put your foot down. Demand he gets help, or trip will be one-way only for you and kids while dad can stay in OZ to drown himself in booze.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Would your H be willing to go to AA?

Tell him yes he needs to go to counseling before he loses his family.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Thanks for your replies. Your right..alcohol is the problem. When we met I knew he was a drinker but he was funny and just a good guy. It didn't seem to cause problems then. If anything people would take advantage of him. Now I see that he has been constantly seeking approval from others by being the good/nice guy. After we married things did change. Itching to get to the pub,always someone to meet, etc. Kids came along and I was at home. He felt and said often that he "deserved" to go to the pub because he worked. He could never have a few and come home. I never saw him before closing time.

Forward to now. He hasn't gone to pubs in years but drinks at home. The bedwetting stopped for around 5 years but this time he was home it happened. I am not going through that all again. The rage and anger has developed over the last 2 years and there seemed to be a lot of hate for me in his eyes. Our girls dont have the relationship the should have with him and that saddens me. 

I don't think he would go to AA. Because he cant drink for the time he is away working (4 weeks) he feels it is his right to drink when home. He told me that he would cut down but I still wouldn't be happy. I have no problems with him having a few, but when it is 10+ then its the mess, lack of responsibility, rage/anger and now throwing things that cause the problems.

I have my 1st counselling session next week but after reading a bit more, I'm wondering if it would be better going to a pyschologist? H might go to see them too and they might be able to really get to the bottom of things if he really wants to try. What do you think? He was brought up to never show feelings as that meant you were weak. I think his upbringing has a lot to do with his drinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Been dealing with the same for 25 years. Your husband has a drinking problem but he cannot see it is a problem and he has no intentions in facing that problem not matter how much you talk, threaten or plead with him to understand what you see from him and what you have endured. His friends are fine with his drinking because they don't walk in your shoes.

My husband was military and had drinking buddies every place he was stationed. We'd move some place new and I would think it would be a new start but it was just a new start with more drinking buddies.

Finally, a year ago I asked my husband if he would consider a contract that spelled out the guidelines for what was permitted to drink. He agreed. I asked him to write the agreement the way he felt he could carry it out and he did. He did and stuck by until just recently with the holidays and friends in town. In the agreement there is a clause that says what he is obligated to do if he breaks the contract, this was his thoughts and words. 

Today I told him I am done with the lack of ability to control the drinking.

As far as the upbringing that you mentioned, I too think my husband drinks because of things that happened in his childhood. he was not exposed to parents who were heavy drinkers. He is a sort of nerdy type and his parents had alot of control over him. He joined the military and I think it was thru the military that he felt his first bit of freedom and to help fit in I think he turned to drinking, boozing it up with the guys to be one of the guys.

Last night he and one of his buddies were drinking real heavy. This morning I asked him why he feels he has to over indulge. he said that he had planned to have a good time New Year's eve. I asked him why does having fun involve over indulging for him but he cannot give me an answer. Over indulging does no benefit for him health wise. He's on heart meds and all kinds of prescript meds but he drinks like that is not even a consideration. He is over weight, huge belly. He can't feel good today....and that is all worth it? Not for me, that is for sure!


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

AVR...its is so hard. Now and again I get a glimps of what it could/should be like but it never lasts longer than maybe a week. I think that is what has kept me going. And also that he goes away and I dont have to worry. Regarding his upbringing...H is eldest of 3,his father worked away too but always spent lots of time with kids when home, mother is quiet/shy and not well liked but very controlling. H often got hit by her, sometimes with objects. She always worked and done nothing with kids. He done his own thing from about 12. I dont ask him if he is going to phone his parents now (after doing that for a long time) he grudging makes contact 2/3 times a year. A decision he makes.

After reading a lot about this subject, I slightly changed the way I dealt with him as I am not his mother and do not want 3 children to look after. I ask for a straight answer and ask him to clearly explain himself instead of talking in riddles. I am not asking 10 questions to get an answer he could give me straight off. I try and get him to make decisions about family/everyday things, take some responsibilities with money, open up a bit with me. Do you think this could be escalating his anger because I have decided to not take some of his crap. I also know that I am slowly detaching from him? Does he sense this? He will never be honest to me or himself about what is going on inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

confused15 said:


> After reading a lot about this subject, I slightly changed the way I dealt with him as I am not his mother and do not want 3 children to look after. I ask for a straight answer and ask him to clearly explain himself instead of talking in riddles. I am not asking 10 questions to get an answer he could give me straight off. I try and get him to make decisions about family/everyday things, take some responsibilities with money, open up a bit with me. Do you think this could be escalating his anger because I have decided to not take some of his crap. I also know that I am slowly detaching from him? Does he sense this? He will never be honest to me or himself about what is going on inside.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You've described my husband, sounds like yours might also be passive-aggressive also. He wants no control over him and is not comfortable with emotional commitment. He can't keep his word because that would be like going in to what you want and he can't please you that way, otherwise he might be "weak" (in his mind). The spouse always pays for the actions of the passive-aggressive. Google it, it might give you some answers. And yes, standing up for yourself and being tired of the BS is going to make him angry but is trying to please him working, and how is that effecting you?? You do have to stand up for yourself and what is right for you and your family. The choices your husband is making are poor choices and they are hurting the whole family, including your husband which he cannot see. He needs help, I suggest counseling for the two of you as a couple.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Counselling or psychologist? I wondered if H agreed to go, if it would be better to do IC and after a few sessions, possibly with the same person, then do couple sessions? I know I would find that easier, to be able to open up and get a bit stronger before doing the same together. 

I bought the book "Living with a passive aggressive man" and it described H well. I left it out for him to read but in one of his outbursts he shouted "just change the title to woman" Maybe?? I do emotionally shut down and cant speak even look at him when he has hurt me. Lasts a day or two with him overly trying to please me. Also, when emotionally hurt, it can take a while before I want to get physical again, kiss, touch, sex. So yes maybe I am a bit PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

You are officially on the roller coaster ride known as alcoholism. It affects every member of the family. I've frequently said alcoholism is an equal-opportunity destroyer.

Alcoholism is, as a rule, progressive. There are emotional and physical changes that go along with years of drinking. You are witnessing them in your husband with his increasing anger and inappropriate behavior.

I lived with an alkie for years. I saw the mood swings, passive-aggressive behaviors, bed wetting, vomiting ("I must have eaten something bad.") You name it, I saw it.

Until I was ready to get back on my side of the street and take care of me, I was doomed to stay in the same cycle. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Unless and until he admits he has a drinking problem, there is nothing you can do. In fact, your mentioning his drinking is only going to make him angry. It is his responsibility, and his alone to do something about his drinking - if he wants to.

Your responsibility is to get help for yourself in order to determine if you can live with it. That is your problem to own.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

If he says it's over.... why not LET it be over??? 

Drunk AND angry are hard to live with. Seems like it's an invitation to a new life for you!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

confused15 said:


> Counselling or psychologist? I wondered if H agreed to go, if it would be better to do IC and after a few sessions, possibly with the same person, then do couple sessions? I know I would find that easier, to be able to open up and get a bit stronger before doing the same together.
> 
> I bought the book "Living with a passive aggressive man" and it described H well. I left it out for him to read but in one of his outbursts he shouted "just change the title to woman" Maybe?? I do emotionally shut down and cant speak even look at him when he has hurt me. Lasts a day or two with him overly trying to please me. Also, when emotionally hurt, it can take a while before I want to get physical again, kiss, touch, sex. So yes maybe I am a bit PA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His claim back is typical passive-aggressive behavior. they have to pass their behavior off to someone else. They remain calm, like they have no issues where as all along you see their anger but they won't admit to it, can't admit to it, makes them vulnerable. If they can get you to take on their anger then they have their release, their blame and now you have to own what they cannot. You see??

One thing I have learned to do is detach, detach detach from my emotional desire to give it back to him or get in his face as this makes me look like I am the one with the issues. I do have an issue with his behavior but I am not going to let him play Mr Calm and allow him to get a rise out of me so he can call me crazy.

If he goes by himself, just from my own experience, he is clueless and the session will go no where. you need to be there so the counselor knows what you are dealing with as your husband cannot see himself objectively and does not feel there is anything wrong with him. 

In my case, my husband could see thru reading a book that he had passive aggressive behavior. he told me that he saw himself in the book but that he didn't think he was passive-aggressive even though everyone I met with professionally told me the same thing. So they cannot see how their behavior inpacts others. Their behavior is so ingrained and they see it as proper.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Thanks for all your comments.

I have my first counselling session the day before he comes home so will see how that goes first before I consider suggesting we go together. I feel that I need to get my head around stuff before I say anything else to H as if he does go it will be "or me, I made him" and I need him to do it "for him, to help him and his family". We have never been at this stage before so I am hoping this could be a step in the right direction for both of us. Wishful thinking maybe.. I am not ready to walk away just yet. I also feel different this time, not sure how or why. Determined, focused, just don't know??

I came accross PA by accident on TAM so when I got the book it just made a lot of sense. I had it for about 6 months before plucking up the courage to ask H to read it. I probably knew what his reaction would be and I was right. 

Lots more reading to be done.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

confused15 said:


> Thanks for all your comments.
> 
> I have my first counselling session the day before he comes home so will see how that goes first before I consider suggesting we go together. I feel that I need to get my head around stuff before I say anything else to H as if he does go it will be "or me, I made him" and I need him to do it "for him, to help him and his family". We have never been at this stage before so I am hoping this could be a step in the right direction for both of us. Wishful thinking maybe.. I am not ready to walk away just yet. I also feel different this time, not sure how or why. Determined, focused, just don't know??
> 
> ...


It's hard to wrap your head around and most people don't get it for a long long time. I have had to learn to do so much differently. I think it eventually boils down to lack of emotion in the marriage, lack of any kind of connection to one another, neither one trusting the other person. I tried and tried to the point of utter exhaustion, I am an open honest person and his behavior was killing our marriage plain and simple. It was like he wanted to act like he was a single man and have no responsibility to the marriage. My complaining about his lack of helping out with the kids, the house, the yard would end up in fights which were not productive to the marriage but he also was not willing to help so I have taken most of it on with a great deal of resentment.

I have said some things to my best friends about my husband's behavior and they cannot see it. What they see is when they are around that he is engaging, he is kind, he is helpful. This man is about show when others are around. The only other person he has treated like he does me is his exwife.

Good luck with your counseling, I do hope it will help you. A book that helped me to seperate myself from my husband as far as any expectations was "Change Your Mind and Your Life will Follow" by Karen Casey.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

You should think about going to AlaNon in addition to counseling. You need to stop trying to "control" his drinking. Stop counting his beers & trying to get him to stop after 1-2 drinks. You must realize that he is an addict & people that try to interfere with his addiction will be a target for his rage. If you are not ready to leave him, then start setting up boundaries to protect yourself. Do not buy him beer. Do not speak with him when he is drunk. Don't drive him around & don't think he "should be able to stop after a few beers" like other people. He's in too deep.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You are married to an alcoholic, this is your life unless he decides that he needs help and seeks it out for himself. For God's sake, your 17 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER is telling you that you need to get out, what the hell else do you need, really?? Dont make excuses as to why you cant leave, and saying that life is good is a lie. Do this for your kids if you dont think enough of yourself to get out.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

confused15 said:


> I feel that I need to get my head around stuff before I say anything else to H as if he does go it will be "or me, I made him" and *I need him to do it "for him, to help him and his family". *We have never been at this stage before so I am hoping this could be a step in the right direction for both of us.


I know you don't see the dynamics of what you are doing, but you are trying to get your husband to do what you want him to do. It's called controlling. Leave if you want, or stay if you want. That's your decision to make. 

But you are so focused on him, you aren't looking at you. It's called codependency. Instead of reading up on HIS passive-aggression, you should get a copy of Melody Beattie's classic, _Codependent No More_. Stop trying to analyze him. Going to counseling is a step in the right direction, but not if you go into sessions to discuss him.



confused15 said:


> I came accross PA by accident on TAM so when I got the book it just made a lot of sense. I had it for about 6 months before plucking up the courage to ask H to read it. I probably knew what his reaction would be and I was right.


He's not interested in reading books, going to AA, or facing the problems caused by his own issues. If he's not, he's not. He isn't interested in your suggestions. Sorry, but it's true. 



confused15 said:


> Lots more reading to be done.


Start reading about codependency. Leave him to figure out his problems for himself. However, I doubt he really thinks he has any serious problems.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

I bought Codependant No More tonight and have made a start on reading it. A lot of it is about me and I can now understand where my behaviour has come from. Child of a messy divorce with LOTS of (family and household) responsibility from the age of 13. Always looking out for others and trying to fix things. Something I will definately try and work through with my counsellor.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

confused15 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I have been reading this forum for around 2 years now and have followed some of the advice given to others with similar marriage problems to mine. But now I am at a loss and I don't really know what to do anymore.
> 
> ...


Alcoholism is one of the toughest things to live with. My dad was an alcoholic. My mom should have left him. He was a totally different person when he was drunk...mean and cruel. Abusive. Scary. He went to AA once to dry out but it didn't stick. Alcoholics have to want to quit. And even then they fall off the wagon.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This isn't about your husband. Not really. It's about you and what you accept. You keep acting like you need him to change. No. You need YOU to change. Read everything you can about living with an alcoholic. Go to Alanon to learn steps to take. Ask your IC how to get stronger to stop allowing his crap when he drinks. 

When he gets home, calmly inform him that the instant he raises his voice - drinking or not - you will be throwing his stuff out the front door and he can figure out where to stay.

And then DO IT. Kick him out. He needs a CONSEQUENCE for his behavior. He has had none. Now you've raised kids who will be Adult Children of Alcoholics and have their own set of problems.

Do the right thing - if he drinks, he's gone.

And if he gives you grief and tries to come back in, CALL THE POLICE TO KEEP HIM OUT.


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## peskipixy (Jan 3, 2015)

turnera said:


> Now you've raised kids who will be Adult Children of Alcoholics and have their own set of problems.
> 
> Do the right thing - if he drinks, he's gone.


(Raising my hand) Adult Child of Alcoholics right here! I won't get into that at the moment . . .

I read your story, Confused. It's exactly the same as what I saw growing up and well into my adult life. Your husband is an alcoholic with what seems to be more than just the issue of alcoholism. Allow me some leeway in describing only one possible scenario of how this situation pans out:

The drinking was fine in the beginning, wasn't causing many issues and he was able to control it. As the years pass it becomes heavier and that's when things start to change, especially with the children. At first, he would simply become withdrawn or disinterested in things and the kids would leave him alone but as the years go on, he becomes short tempered and mean. He lashes out at everyone, destroying things he thinks you care about and both you and the kids learn to walk on eggshells. Not only that, the kids don't want to be around him at all and find excuses to disappear. Now it's taking less and less for him to get drunk and his memory is horrible. You have to repeatedly remind him of things he's said or plans that were made. When he doesn't have a drink first thing in the morning, you notice the sweating and that his hand shakes and he's on edge. The kids don't respect him at all and would rather blow him off than do anything that involves him. They have asked you repeatedly to leave him or kick him out but you can't. You just can't do that because he's the man you married and you still love him and there's no one else who will take care of him. There's no where else for him to go and he won't leave. You're emotionally drained and it's starting to wear on you physically. Each time he drinks, you start to feel sick to your stomach as he continues to go out while drunk. You wait for the phone call to come that something has happened, he's been arrested or worse.
You can tell his own health is suffering but you stay silent because you know what will happen if you don't. Crying has become second nature to you and happens almost daily. He won't listen to anyone and you know that, in the end, he'll either hit rock bottom soon or die and it might be one and the same.

As I said, it's only one scenario. It could play out many different ways. As for what I mean about alcoholism not being the only problem, you may want to read up on Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome. It may help explain some of the other side-effects of his drinking. My father has it because of his drinking. He has since stopped (almost a full year now and I still can't believe it) because he was told by his cardiologist to make a choice: keep drinking and die or stop drinking and live. There were other health issues that popped up before that and I would be happy to tell you if you'd like.

You will never be able to make him stop drinking. You're just a bystander to this downward spiral and all I can tell you is not to enable it, just try and stay clear. It's hard, I know. I've lived it and still do to a degree.


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

hi..been there done that. codependant in recovery. be aware you may feel angry half way thru the book. i did. anyway. im going to go out on a limb and say your H anger is unresolved issues within himself and the alcohol excassberates it. passive aggressive usually follows resentment..a way of showing how you feel..verbal words dont tell. they cover it. 

so ..you need a plan. prepare for the worst case scenario. then see what and whom you have for support. i just discovered in my area there are intervention specialists. basically they work with the family to do intervention. see if they can get addict to committ to a rehab. if he wont..what then? well you have pre decided and the hard part..is you follow through. 

i know this sounds easy...but its super hard to do. you have to mentally and emotionally prepare for your spouse to say...i value the addiction more. you will take it personally..but as the H told me it was never about me. but since i suffered the affects of it it will always feel personal. im sensitive that way..sucks for me. 

he is an adult of an alc. he didnt live w his alc parent but it still neg impacted him..read on addictions as many times its genetic. it is strongly genetic in my H side and my mom. this info you can pass to your children. but...remember to not consume urself with it. take care of urself each day. 

i was helped by going to NA more than nar-anon...To understand the mind of an addict and how far they will go. that its not personal...and that there are some people out there w serious issues. i asked the H if i could go to a few. it was helpful to me. 

so..it sounds to me your hubs needs a rehab. and A.A. and individual counseling for his anger. 
you need to start detaching. all addict support groups advise this. 

sorry your here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

I am not making excuses for him here but-

He doesn't go out drinking - all at home or friends.

He doesn't hide his drinking or the amount- leaves the empty bottles until morning when he put them in the bin.

He isn't shaking or sweating in the morning - maybe just a bit ill but only occasionally.

He isn't very motivated at home but will do some jobs if needed but likes to say "It's on my list for next week".

Will have the odd night off from drinking - his decision, I say nothing. Usually means he wants sex but doesnt always get it.

He doesn't have/want/need a drink in the morning.

He has always been in work. He told me he hates it but it is all he talks about.

I don't buy beer for him.

If we go out we take it in turns to drive, but I do get anxious if I am driving incase he gets drunk, obnoxious and innapropriate. Never angry in front of others.

The girls love their dad a lot but have been let down by him often and they have realised that they cant always rely on him. A mate turns up, beer opened and plans are dropped.

His memory is awful. Directions,appoinments, etc I will tell him 1/2 times and then say I have already told you. Guess what, he remembers. This is what I now do.

He is overweight (6"2 100 away-107kgs home beer + food) but has invasive medicals for work and is healthy. 

I read a bit more of the book last night and I did get a bit angry. I am here 24/7 with ALL the responsibility of family and household for 5 weeks out of 8 and it told me to step back. Circumstances won't let me so I'm not sure how that can happen. I am very independant (too much somtimes) so asking for help doesn't come easy although I have become better over the last few years and I have put in some boundries which I think is making H angry as he know I won't take his BS. I know I need more. H changing jobs is not an option but maybe one with less travelling is. He definately needs help to deal with his anger and issues. The incident with the bottleand aftermath is a first but it seems to have changed everything in me.

Thanks for all the feedback and help.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Confused15, my husband's habits are much like yours. We have had counselors look at the habits. One counselor said that it was a matter of his limitations vs my expectations. Another said that it was a lack of control but not alcoholism. Yet another said it was binge drinking and he felt it was impacting the marriage. Obviously it was impacting the marriage. I don't think we pull these issues out of the sky and make them problems. I realize too men think, act and react differently in situations so perhaps comparisons are not fair but when alcohol is not controlled on a routine basis and it starts cutting into the quality of life you have with that person everyone gets hurt. Your husband is hurting himself whether he sees it or not. He is hurting you and his family whether he wants to face that or not. You don't need anyone to back up your thoughts on his poor behavior, you feel it, you are living it. What you need to learn to do is walk away and not be accountable for him in any way. 

I used to hide my husband's drinking around the kids as I did not want them to see him like he was. I would tell him to just go to bed and he would. I was embarrassed in front of company so many times, I was personally offended by his behavior. I had to realize that his actions and his choices are his own and I do not need to be accountable for his choices nor do I need to cover up, make excuses or cater to him. So, I walk away. 

The contract he agreed to last Dec did last a year and I am very thankful for that but he is back at it now and I know it's because he is not very happy with me right now. I think my husband will probably continue down this path of destruction until it becomes life threatening to him. We had a friend die just last month from liver cancer and yet it did not impact him.

My choice is to learn to accept what is going on and not be responsible towards his behavior or leave the marriage entirely. Trust me, I really want to leave! I wish it was as easy to to as it is to say, or wish for.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Confused, I don't know if you realize it, but the entire first page of comments and responses talked about fixing him, up till Prodigal narrowed in on YOUR problem. You can't change him, but by reading that book (Codependent No More) and attending Al-Anon, you'll have the greatest chance of improving your relationship with him if you choose to. 

Right now, he feels like you are constantly judging him, controlling him, and taking responsibility for his life. He's right about that. He doesn't see that he is in desperate need of SOME kind of control! However, by letting yourself "help" him in this way, you're setting up a downward spiral of behaviors that enables him to focus MORE on drinking and blaming you. 

I hope you'll find an Al-Anon group soon. Your counselor and books can be good, but nothing beats the experience, strength, and hope of people who have walked in your shoes and who can spot it when you start sabotaging yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

confused15 said:


> His memory is awful. Directions, appointments, etc I will tell him 1/2 times and then say I have already told you. Guess what, he remembers. This is what I now do.
> 
> I am here 24/7 with ALL the responsibility of family and household for 5 weeks out of 8 and it told me to step back. Circumstances won't let me so I'm not sure how that can happen.
> 
> I have put in some boundaries which I think is making H angry as he know I won't take his BS. I know I need more.


First, you're doing what EVERY spouse of an alcoholic does - when pressed with making changes, you backtracked and tried to show us all his GOOD so we'll stop urging you to make drastic changes. Like his BAD isn't really all that bad. 

Second, when it says don't take on all the responsibility and you say you can't, what do you change when he comes home? Do you tell him the dishes need done? Do you go out by yourself and let him watch the kids? Do you wash his clothes or let him wash them? There are a LOT of ways you can cut back on being his 100% support. You just have to have the nerve to do it.

Third, what boundaries and what are the resultant CONSEQUENCES he gets for stepping over your boundaries? Boundaries are worse than nothing, they're harmful, if you tell him what they are and then do nothing if he walks all over them - if you do nothing it teaches him you're all hot air, no substance, no guts to carry out any consequences.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> The contract he agreed to last Dec did last a year and I am very thankful for that but *he is back at it* now and* I know it's because he is not very happy with me *right now. I think my husband will probably continue down this path of destruction until it becomes life threatening to him.


Confused, this is an example of having a boundary but no consequence. AVR COULD divorce her husband and live on the alimony/child support and whatever, but she tells herself she can't live without his full salary. So she stays. And has no consequence for him breaking the contract (boundary). And he knows it.

AVR, he didn't break the contract because he's mad at you. He broke it because he figured out you wouldn't do anything.


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## peskipixy (Jan 3, 2015)

Confused, all I can say to the list of things you say he doesn't do is "that you know of." That entire list of things are justifications that every spouse makes of a substance-addicted spouse. 

Of course he's not going to behave badly in front of others. That would show people there's a problem and he might have to admit it. Of course your daughters know he's not reliable and won't depend on him. I've only just started to rely on my own father again after 20 years! And his going to work? My father never missed a day of work. Ever. My father actually explained why: there are bills to pay and you need money to drink. That scenario I wrote is the story of his drinking and how it affected everything. 

I have to admit something. I let my mother read this because she's still with my father and she shook her head at that list you made. She was in that same situation and she used to do the exact same thing you are. Don't be surprised if the rest of the family checks out and you're left holding the bag because the rest of them knew better than to let it keep happening around them. You will never get the help you need if you don't help yourself first.

Don't make a list explaining the good points because there are none, especially to those of us who lived it. We know better. And none of us ever bought beer for my father either.


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

confused. i have walked in your shoes. i relate to most every thing you last posted. 
he is getting angry and will continue to get possibly more angry as you set up and enforce boundaries. because..he wants to drink. you taking control of the situation for your and your childrens life is taking away something he wants -liquor-and he is gping to get mad. the only way he wont get angry is if HE wants to stop. you giving him a choice HE views as control. so..im going to be veru truthful here and tell you..if you can start setting up a support system. i had no one at all willing to help me. and he is also possibly displaying anger to back you down. mine did. each ind is diff. when you give him boundaries ultimatum i would suggest having some one else with you.you cant predict someones anger. has he ever hit you?. 

everything you doing and saying is par for the course...but it wont fix the problem. judging you wont help you. an addict wont quit until they hit their own bottom and they want to quit. that is a fact. bottom could mean loss of family..loss of job..etc. 

i think i posted prev i went to a couple NA mtgs. bottom for one was not being in prison several times. it was not guns to his head by dealers. it was running from the police until he almost ran over several children. for one girl it was being homeless n hungry on streets in Hollywood. for one it was a threat of divorce and not living at home. for a long time friend of mine it was NOT the threat of losing his family but falling and hurting himself. for many of the rest it was that or jail time . 

for the H. it was loss of job and stealing. he just finally got a new job. even makes more money but the hours are long its a crappy job. he only doing it to provide. but his anger at himself will still get projected on me. we can only hold so much anger in till it spews..typically on those closest to us. 

my m.i.l. died of alcoholism. the last couple years were painful n sad too see. 

if he wont stop himself..and most dont..he gonna have to hit bottom. ur gonna have to help him with the bottom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

I understand that alcoholics need to hit their rock bottom before they will/can stop. I have gone through this with friends dealing with it. I think I just didn't see H as one because he isn't your "typical alkie" but I am beginning to.

The "boundries" I have made for myself are

If he need to tell me something it needs to be clear, not in riddles so that I have to ask 10 question to get the answer. eg I have put the stuff on the thing?????

Instead of H talking in demands (get me, i want, etc) I say "please?" which he will now say please or thank you.

If we are at friends and there are things at home needing done, I just say that "I'm off home now" and go leaving him there. I used to say "we need to go, stuff to do" or similar.

If he is drinking and we see a change, eyes wide when talking to us, sitting up in his seat, puffed up, etc I/we go off to another room and just leave him. I mention it to him the next day.

If I need to go somewhere or do something I tell him and then do it. We have a holiday booked but he wasn't sure if he would get home in time. If that was to happen he wanted us to cancel it. I told him that I would still be talking the girls. He wasn't happy but said nothing.



These may sound silly or stupid, there are others,but it has started to make things a bit easier and less stressful for me and I do follow through with them. The girls do some of them too. He definately isn't happy about it at the time but I can see some changes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

confused15 said:


> The "boundaries" I have made for myself are
> If he need to tell me something it needs to be clear, not in riddles so that I have to ask 10 question to get the answer. eg I have put the stuff on the thing?????
> Instead of H talking in demands (get me, i want, etc) I say "please?" which he will now say please or thank you.
> If we are at friends and there are things at home needing done, I just say that "I'm off home now" and go leaving him there. I used to say "we need to go, stuff to do" or similar.
> ...


Sounds like decent progress. So what happens when he still talks in riddles?
When he demands something and you say 'please?' and he doesn't respond with please?
The others aren't necessarily boundaries so much as changes you are making in your behavior. Which is fine, you need them. 

But I'm asking about things HE does that are harmful to you or the kids. What are they, and what will YOU do when he does them?


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

When he tries to explain or tell me something and it's still riddles I just say "I don't know what you mean". I can see him getting frustrated (at me or himself??? not sure) but he will keep trying and I listen. When he has eventually explained clearly then I carry on with conversation.

When I say "please" or "thank you" after he has made a demand, he will say it but sometimes it has a sarcastic tone like a child but over all he seems to know it wont get him what he wants if he doesn't. I won't do or help with anything now until he has shown manners and courtesy.

I am having problems thinking about what I do when he does something harmful to me or the kids. I haven't been sleeping in our bed when he gets drunk for the last few months. I go off to the spare room. I never know when he will wet the bed so I wont take the chance. I am not going through all that again. For years I felt so hurt that someone that said he loves me could do that. I now realise that drinking and looking good in front of others is more important.

He has never hit me or the girls but he had never picked up a bottle and thrown it before. For me this has been a real game changer.

Apart from that (?), I don't think I have any real boundries regarding his harmful behaviour. This is what I need to work on. Thanks for asking the question and anymore you have.....It's what I need..to be forced to look at me and my behaviour first. Fix/help me.

Also he has been away for Xmas and I can't bring myself to get him a present for coming home. A first again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This might help:
http://www.cs.uni-potsdam.de/ti/kreitz/Christian/Boundaries/all.pdf

He is harming you with alcohol. All you have to say when he returns is "You have broken your promise. You have brought alcohol back into our lives. I won't stay with you as long as you are drinking. Make your choice."

Who gives a fluck about a present? Stay mad!


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## peskipixy (Jan 3, 2015)

He's got an alcohol-dependency problem and will soon have permanent impaired brain function. He's already done enough damage to himself that he's a completely changed person when he drinks and is having trouble expressing himself. 

The fact that he's becoming violent when he drinks is a big red flag. Sure, he may not have harmed you or your children physically but he's still a threat when he starts throwing things and becomes destructive. It's only a matter of time before something, and it could be anything including not liking the color of your shirt, sets him off and you suddenly find yourself the target of his anger. 

You need to decide what steps you are going to take should he become violent once more. It's not a big leap from smashing a bottle to smashing you when he get's angry. He's losing all control of his actions and you need to be prepared should the unthinkable happen. Have an emergency plan, an exit plan and a back-up plan. Yes, they really are 3 very different things.

Emergency Plan: What are you going to do when things get out of control?
Exit Plan: Where can you go if you need to leave the home and how will you get there?
Back-up Plan: In the event neither of the first two plans are possible, what steps are you going to take to make yourself and children safe?

It's horrible to even think of it but it's something anyone living with a substance-addicted/dependant spouse needs to consider. If and when he comes home (because we all know he will), you'll need to have a conversation with him and lay everything out on the table. You need to be firm with him, explain the consequences of his actions and you MUST FOLLOW THROUGH. Get a safety net of friends and family around you who will support you. Having someone to talk to that you trust is also important. It will give you strength.

Good luck and remember, we're always here.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Thanks for the link. I have started to work my way through all the reading, although I am skipping over any of the Biblical bits, just not for me and I'm trying to understand it all. A lot to take in.

It has been a bit of a rough few days. I am so tired, struggling to sleep, and tears are never far just now. I cried myself to sleep last night. Really cried. I just don't know what is happening to me. I have spent the day with my eldest in the foulest of moods and after helping my youngest clear out stuff, she has just screamed at me when I asked a question. I am now in my room taking time out in tears again. 

I have my counselling session tomorrow and the way I am today I wont be able to have a proper conversation with her without crying. Also H is on his way home and will arrive back on Friday. I am feeling sick just thinking about it. I am hoping that I might be a bit more settled after speaking to C.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

eh, I cry every time I GO to my therapist. That's what she's there for.

Ask her for realistic steps you can take about H, especially if he chooses to drink in front of you.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

Well, I went to the counsellor today and cried through the whole session but I did feel better after. I think just speaking to someone face to face , expressing my feelings, etc and them not getting angry helped.

She asked if H would go and see her. I'm not so sure he would but havent asked him yet. She explained that as it is usually the wife that goes to see her first and couples with similar problems to ours, with the wifes permission of course, she phones the H to say that his W is hurting and would he like to attend a session as a couple. Most say yes and go until progress is made.

My question is..... do you agree or do you think it would be better for H to do IC before we do couple sessions? 

And....is it best to both see the same counsellor? (I really liked her)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Boy, that's tricky. The first time I got my H to go to therapy, it was on my IC's suggestion to tell him that I need his 'help' with 'my' problems. The problem with that was that IC and I both knew already that HE was the problem. And when she started talking to HIM, about 3 sessions in, he got furious, and stormed out. He wasn't there to talk about HIM. He never went back.

The second time I got him to go to MC, it was about 3 years ago when I said either you go or I'm moving out. He agreed immediately. But then he never DID anything. And eventually stopped going. 

It wasn't until IC helped me see that this wasn't about HIM, it was about ME and what I would put up with, that things started to change. I suspect you'll reach the same conclusion - the real answer here is for YOU to find your backbone.

I mean, you can TRY and see if he'll agree after a phone call.

I'd stick with the same counselor.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

I was thinking to avoid the phone call, talk to him about it and see what he says. I really don't know what his reaction will be. I will be carrying on regardless of what he says, I am trying to help ME, for a change. 

We go away on Wed for 9 days so doesn't give a lot of time to arrange an appointment beforehand as he is only home tomorrow but I think it would be best if we could. Sooner rather than later.


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## peskipixy (Jan 3, 2015)

I'm glad you've found an IC you're comfortable with to just let it all out. A lot of people won't give any inkling as to the emotional turmoil they feel. And it sounds like your daughters are dreading him coming home if one is in a bad mood and the other is yelling back at you for simply asking a question.

As for having the IC call your husband, that's really up to you whether or not you're comfortable with it. I would say to sit down with hubby and explain to him what's been going on and that you would like for him to maybe join you. That way he doesn't feel blindsided or pressured into coming simply because the counsellor called and makes that the only reason he decides to go. Maybe you should ask about one or both of your daughters coming with you. They might get something from the experience that will help them as well.

You also said you're going away together for 9 days. Maybe you can take that time let things cool down a bit, maybe even mention the counselling there. Bring it up slowly. Don't push, just mention it in passing casually.


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## confused15 (Jan 1, 2015)

H is home now, isn't really acting as if all is ok but seems to know that something has changed. Which it has, in me. He is just doing the usual stuff. I have been quietly doing my thing only talking to him about everyday stuff regarding house, kids, etc. No emotions involved on my part. Just the same as I have been in the calls home when he was away. I suppose I am not letting myself "be normal" with him as I am waiting on the pattern happening....H gets home and all is good for a few days (sex, conversation, family time, etc...then the increased drinking, distancing himself, putting others first, angry outbursts, me being the main target & getting emotionally hurt, etc...... an argument happens & then H tries to do anything/everything to please me but no apology, which I find pathetic & tell him not to ..then he goes back to work. I am protecting myself, I suppose.

I haven't had then chance to bring up the counselling yet, not the right time or moment but I will. I think I will take your advice peskipixy by taking it slowly over our time away. I don't want the kids involved at this stage as I think there is a lot to be discussed which they really don't need to know or be worried about. Now H is home they have become Daddy's girls again.

He did piss me off yesterday. We were all out having lunch and he asked the waitress as she passed quickly for another drink. Straight away I said " Did you not think to ask us if we wanted one?" as we had empty glasses. "Oh, I didn't know you wanted one, do you? #@$×#@ I ordered for me & the kids. My counsellor told me that I'm dealing with a child
which I think, deep down, I already knew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what's your plan when he brings alcohol back in the house? Or has he already? Did you have ANY boundaries in place?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ahhh....another one of my demons I had to face.....alcohol.

Don't confuse passive Agressive behavior with alcoholism. Yes, those same traits will rear their ugly head, but the reasons are usually different.

Alchoholics don't want to admit they have a drinking problem. They will come up with every excuse not to face those demons.


..I only drink on weekends...so it's ok.

...I deserve this...my day was crappy.

...hell, Monday sucked. Tuesday is a good day to start drinking.

If you confront him about it. He will get mad, deflect, come up with every excuse in the book to convince you he doesn't have a problem. Give you the silent treatment. Even turn to extreme anger and threats. Ultimatums will be given to stop you from even bringing up the subject.

He most likely knows he has a problem. We all do. But again, we bury our heads in the sand. Convince ourselves we are in control. 

Control is the illusion. We are not in control.

Or...."ok! I'm going to quit this!......tomorrow."

Having gone down this road personally, AA is really the best course of action. That program is the most successful of self help programs.

And don't be put off by the use of the "god" words in the program. The book was written in a different time...a different culture in our society.

What they explain now is that you don't have to believe in god. Just a higher power. Be it a different god, the universe, or just your own personal strength that you can do this...it's all good.

But....like all personal growth....he needs his own come to Jesus moment to start down that path. For some, it's imminent divorce. Never seeing the kids again. Health reasons. We are all different.

He needs that cliff to dangle over. He needs that defining moment in life where he needs to choose. Fall over? Or climb back up and seek treatment. 

You can never suggest, offer, or badger him into treatment.

He needs something to lose. Something more important than that drink in life.

This one will be all on him.

(don't get me started on alchohol withdrawl.. That's a bad, bad, stage for everyone)


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## NewLifePlease (Oct 31, 2014)

Dearest Confused,
When I read your list of reasons he is not the typical alchy (he only drinks at home and not at bars and he has a job), I saw me...and I had to stop lurking and write.

Alcoholism is a progressive desease. When we first got married 7 years ago I didn't think it was that bad. He didn't drink every day and he only drank beer so...I saw periods when he was great to me. He did very well on his job and we took great vacations...I didn't have to work. But my husband is a functioning alcoholic. The worse kind - the kind that keeps you in a bad relationship longer than you should. My husband was emotionally neglectful, short tempered making me walk on eggshells, verbally abusive. He only wanted to hang out with his alcoholic friends at the bar and though I tried to make friends with other couples, he would often be a no show so I would be one my own and feel kind of weird to be the one with no husband. I eventually stopped hanging out much and became a homebody. 

When things started to get worse, I tried to save him partially because we could have the perfect life. But no matter how hard I tried, things just got worse. I read all the books (except co-dependent no more unfortunately) on how to stop an alcoholic - I went to private counseling, I told his family and paid a pretty penny to do an intervention, I dragged him to AA, to out-patient. All the while ignoring myself, taking the abuse of his rage until the resentment built up ...until I got older and fatter and a shell of my former self. 

I often wonder what it would be like to be in a normal relationship. I wonder if I am permanently broken. I wish I left in my 40s. I am now 50. The older you get, the harder it gets. My complaint when I was in my 40s is I was too old to start over. Look, now I am 50. When I go on the boards and read what I wrote 4 years ago or even 5 years ago when this all started it makes me sick. It sounds a lot like what you are saying right now. I hate that I am still here taking this crap and I hate myself for not having the courage to leave. 

So many people told me on these boards what I we are telling you now, but somehow I felt my situation was different. Well, it's not. Neither is yours. Sorry for the bad news.


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

all our situations have some sort of uniquness tho mostly feels same. for me it was no support system amongst many oyher issues. what i learned last night refueled anger...that my mom who has always refused to help me in anyway..inc watching my kids just one wknd since they were born..now teens...is babysitting my niece n nephew while my sister divorces her H. she been doing this all since last summer year while telling me she has no time for my kids. back to acceptance and doing what i have to do 

that is why i suggest finding a support network first. its much easier. doing this alone was an isolation nightmare and i was able only to survive each day thanks to TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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