# Finally landed on the CWI Forum, Need Advice



## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I'll try to keep this as brief and simple as possible.

My wife and I have been married for 2.5 years. I came to this forum about a year ago when my wife was going out on 2-3 GNOs a month. I began to suspect she was cheating. I got into her FB, emails, texts, etc, and did not find any evidence of cheating. However, I did find evidence that, before we were married, one of my close friends had tried to start an affair with her. The evidence showed that my wife did not reciprocate the feelings, but she did not rebuff him, either. I did the full TAM prescribed action: No contact letter that I proofread, no more GNOs, all passwords and access, etc. But I left one important step out: I did not contact the OMW.

He did quit contacting my wife for the most part. He'd send the occasional email/FB message, but my wife would always be transparent about it. Then the messages fell off completely and we didn't hear from him for several months.

In Dec 2011, he sent my wife a random FB message. She informed me and did not respond. He sent another in Jan 2012, again my wife informed me and did not respond. Finally, this past Monday (20 Feb 2012) he escalated to texting her, telling her he loved her, etc.

This time, I completed that one important step that I left out before: I contacted OMW. Background: Me, my wife, OM and OMW had all been very, very close friends. Anyway, in the midst of this very long conversation with OMW, she tells me a few things that my wife had left out of the original D-Day a year ago: That she and my wife had gotten very drunk, and at the urging of OM, had kissed in their hot tub.

I confronted my wife about it that night (Monday), and thus began the trickle truth. She told me that they had gotten sloppy drunk and had kissed. Neither of them found it enjoyable and only did it at the urging of the OM. I firmly told her that continually hiding things from me was unacceptable, and that if she continued to do so, we would not stay together. She was very sorry, she hid her face from me and cried almost the entire night.

The next day (yesterday), during a phone conversation during our lunch breaks, she admits that she also kissed two different girls while she was a freshman in college. I'm more upset at this point because I see that she's been hiding things from me for far longer than I'd originally thought.

So all day yesterday these things are going through my head. I decide when I get home to have another "come to Jesus" talk with her (we'd already had one on Monday night when I found out about her kissing the OMW). I explained to her that she had this one opportunity to tell me the full truth and that if I ever found out differently, that would be the end, no questions asked.

She became very distraught, very emotional, and she's crying again. I could tell that she wanted to tell me more, but that she was very afraid. I encouraged her to open up. She eventually admitted to me that after she kissed OMW, OM eventually went inside. After that, she and OMW went down on each other. She said that neither of them enjoyed it and both immediately regretted it.

She's crying hard at this point. I'm holding her, telling her that I'm not happy with what she's telling me but that I don't hate her or judge her. She starts crying harder, and I ask her if there's more. She says yes. She then starts sobbing so hard that she's shaking, and in between sobs, she tells me that the two girls in college that she'd kissed also went down on her. She also admits to kissing another girl about six months or so before we got married. She tells me that she never had feelings for any one of these girls, that she was sloppy drunk every time, and that she didn't enjoy any of these experiences. She tells me that she's been dying slowly inside since we've been married. She repeatedly tells me that she's worthless, that I don't deserve to be treated this way, and that she doesn't understand why I would stay with her. She tells me over and over that I deserve better.

I'm holding her as she's sobbing into my shoulder, and I calmly thank her for being brave and telling me the truth. She tells me that this is the full truth and that there's nothing else.

She kept sobbing almost uncontrollably like that for another 30 mins or so. The whole time she had her face buried in her hands. She went to the bathroom to throw up and told me not to look at her face. She came back and did not eat any of the dinner that she had prepared. I ate dinner and turned on Family Guy as a brief reprieve for both of us.

That night in bed, she's still sniffling. She asks me if she can touch me, I tell her no. At this point, the anger is welling up inside of me, and I begin to ask the tough questions: How could you tell me you love me then lie to me so much? How could you cheat on someone four different times and never tell him? Etc etc. She says that she was young, rebellious, and that deep down she's always felt that I was too good for her and as such has tried to sabotage our relationship. She admits that at one time she thought it was ok since she'd never cheated after we married, but that she has since realized that that was very wrong. She apologizes for hurting me, tells me she'd do anything to take my hurt away, so on. She offered to sleep on the couch, I told her that wasn't necessary.

This morning she was very quiet. I could tell that she hadn't slept well (I hadn't either) and that she might have been crying some more. I could hear the lump in her throat all morning. When I kissed the top of her head as I was walking out the door to get on my bike, she almost started crying again. I couldn't bring myself to kiss her on the lips.

So there's the story. I need the varying perspectives of the TAM community so that I can get my arms fully wrapped around this thing. 

Here's a little more background: My wife was 21 when we got married, I was 27. She's 23 now, I just turned 30. I realize now that, yes, she was too young. But we're 2.5 years into it now and so that's a bit of a moot point. I don't necessarily want to divorce, but that decision will only come with time as I process all this information.

Also, I've always known that she was bi-curious. That does not bother me in any way, shape, or form. I just never knew that she'd acted on it to the extent that she has.

I do believe that my wife is sorry for her mistakes, and for not telling. I did not in any way get the impression that she was sorry only for getting caught, or that she was justified in her cheating. She very clearly knows it was wrong. I have never seen my wife cry like she did last night, nor so obviously filled with shame and guilt.

My fear is that she is a serial cheater and that she will do all of this again. Idk. She told me she's been presented with the opportunities but has always turned them down because of how badly she felt knowing how wrong she's already been. Yes, my wife has very severe boundary issues as well. Of course, it's hard to trust her about anything at this point, and I'm well-versed in the TAM concept that cheaters lie. But after what I saw last night, I really do believe she's telling me the truth at this point.

So what are the thoughts of the TAM community? I love my wife and want to stay with her, but am now very gun shy about opening up to her in any way.

Edit for clarity: Two of these acts occurred while we were dating, two occurred while we were engaged.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

My biggest issue there is the continued lying of "I didn't enjoy it." 

While based on your post I'd bet you got everything there is to get, the fact that she still maintains that she didn't enjoy those experiences, despite the fact that she had several of them, to me indicates that she hasn't taken ownership of her actions. She's still trying to minimize to some small degree. 

IMO until she takes full ownership and is willing to be held accountable you are more likely for a repeat.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

If I read this right she has not broken your marriage vows. Your wife was a young bride, you know it is so common for college woman to be bi-curious that it is almost a right-of-passage (usually drunken episodes). I expect the (undisclosed) numbers on this is high.

IMO you are making a mountain out of a very small mole-hill. I suggest strongly to chalk it up to a drunken expierement and both if you put it away. It seems to me your dramatics are stressing your wife to physical reaction. 

Get over it and move on with your life and marriage....if you keep it up with your drama and over reaction you may be risking your marriage as your wife will build resentment fir having to relive her slightly naughty - drunken expuerement over and over and over again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

calif_hope said:


> If I read this right she has not broken your marriage vows.



I dont think you are reading it right

she had mutual oral sex with OMW (now OW?) while married in a hot tub


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I dont think you are reading it right
> 
> she had mutual oral sex with OMW (now OW?) while married in a hot tub


Sorry. As I said, it is complicated.

All of these acts occurred before we were married. Two of them while dating, two while we were engaged.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Also that the OM "eventually went inside".


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

snap said:


> Also that the OM "eventually went inside".


I asked about this as well, questioning why he would go inside when OMW and my wife had just kissed. She said they were all very drunk and he went inside to pass out. After he went inside, my wife and OMW decided to explore each other more.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

I am not trying to stir the fire here but the odds that a man would walk into the house alone with two women making out in the hot tub outside seems to be miniscule at most.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

she bisexual.

and ashamed about it.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Falene said:


> I am not trying to stir the fire here but the odds that a man would walk into the house alone with two women making out in the hot tub outside seems to be miniscule at most.


I agree. I questioned my wife and OMW separately pretty hard about this. They both claim that he went inside to pass out before they began experimenting.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

You realize he wouldn't be pursuing your wife on FB for months after if he didn't bang her back then?

I mean, if he was consent with just sticking it to his wife when yours was actually there as well, why bother?


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I just don't know that I believe the OM went inside since he was the one that suggested the physical contact between the two women. I could be wrong, but if this man suggested the contact then he more than likely finds those acts to be a turn on but he is going to walk away from it? Myself, I would have very serious doubts about that story.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

IMO I think there is more. Her emotional reaction was like my WS. She did not tell me everything even after I demanded it. There were more emotional times following D-day and the truth trickled out. More demands from me. I told her to tell me everything or else and I got more. I am just saying (and I may be wrong) that I believe there is more. Getting her to open up is hard. She is scared but you need to know the truth. 

IMO you are going to find out that when she was in the hot tub she did the dude and the dude's wife or something along those lines. 

Read through what you wrote, "She repeatedly tells me that she's worthless, that I don't deserve to be treated this way, and that she doesn't understand why I would stay with her. She tells me over and over that I deserve better." She is saying this because she did more (IMO).

If my WS told me what yours did I would not believe her. The OM told them to kiss and they did. He left and then they went down on each other and did not like it. Yea, right. We munched carpet and found dust mites and it was disgusting. She did it before and did not enjoy it, yet she is doing the same thing again and not liking it.

The fact that you are not having sex with your wife and kissing her tells me that you know there is more.

I would tell her straight out:

1. Honey, people talk. People get full of guilt and want to get things out in the open. Honey, guilt makes people talk.
2. Honey, do you know that I know alot about that time in the hot tub. I would like to hear from you what realy happened, because what you have told me is just part of what happened.

See what her reaction is. My WS knew I was talking to the OM's boss, church, etc and thought I knew a lot more than I did and she spilled the beans.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I suggest that if you are going to stay together, you need to find a therapist who deals with cheating situations and work together with them on rebuilding a foundation of trust and transparency.

Do not rug sweep, do not just get over it, but also if you want to R don't just be angry.

I hope that OM and OMW are fully gone from her life?

There is also the role f alcohol in her cheating. She is using it a an excuse to justify he bad choices. Sounds like she should agree to not get drunk without you around. I don't mean go dry, but keep it very light as in she should always keep it under the legal limit unless you are with her. After all why should a married woman be going out getting drunk like a single girl?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> she bisexual.
> 
> and ashamed about it.


I agree completely. Have no problem with it and am trying to make her understand that regardless of her orientation she is my wife.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bisexual means she is attracted to both, but it doesn't mean acting on it isnt cheating.


I like blondes, redheads, and brunettes. But i can't play with a redhead while married to a blonde.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Bisexual means she is attracted to both, but it doesn't mean acting on it isnt cheating.
> 
> 
> I like blondes, redheads, and brunettes. But i can't play with a redhead while married to a blonde.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with that, too, and have let her know that any experimentation is not excused strictly because it's experimentation. However, all of this happened before we were married. Two occurrences did occur while we were engaged, though.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Does she admit what she did was cheating..

I don't mean, does she get emotional and say pitty and hate me? I mean does she own that she cheated and she must now work hard to earn a second chance with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> I agree completely. Have no problem with it and am trying to make her understand that regardless of her orientation she is my wife.


eh

its obvious you are having problems or else you would not have asked this question on here. I wish you best of luck however you need to decide what you want in life. The fact she has lied before is a huge red flag. 

Its very simple

Lying
Narcissistic behavior
Hedonistic point of views

^^ all are ways people can ruin relationships. The fact your wife has lied and kept things hidden is not good at all. I honestly suggest that all people who encounter a spouse who has hidden and lied about big things to immediately divorce set spouse. Because its only a mater of time until you are back on here asking a question about how they cheated on you or did this or that and you are unhappy. However you are the one who put yourself in this situation. Ultimately you cannot change her behavior she is who she is you can only be there for her and be her husband however no need for that if she is not truly a wife. So with that being said ask yourself if you appreciate being lied to and the problems and if you will be happy living like this.


Her crying is a ploy for her to garner sympathetic emotional support from you and to downplay her lying and she is not compassionate and lack of sound judgement. Her behavior is completely unacceptable. She cheated on you showed loose inhibitions and sound judgement and used "i was inebriated" as an excuse as to why she kissed another man. That in itself is disgusting.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Well, she's obviously sorry and she feels bad about it. Plus, she seems to have told you the truth, though you had to coax it out of her. It seems to me that you have everything you need for true R.

The thing with women's sexuality is that it's a lot more flexible than men's. Studies have shown that women get turned on by a lot of things in almost a random way. Women can get turned on by other women, even though they would swear that they are not turned on and have no homosexual feelings whatsoever. Men are conscious of what turns them on, for the most part, and don't cross those lines easily. Being drunk also lowers inhibitions by "shutting down" the prefrontal cortex to a degree. All of which is to say that if two drunk women make out it's not the least bit surprising that it went further. And she may well have not enjoyed it, but being drunk and aroused she just went with it without really knowing what else to do. It was also somewhat difficult to avoid it reoccurring if she was drunk and in the presence of other women with a penchant for experimentation. I doubt she got up that morning with a preconceived evening game-plan for bisexuality.

Lesson learned: wife shouldn't get drunk in the presence of other women without you around. Second lesson: if wife has bisexual friends, she might be best off finding other friends.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

On the surface it may seem galling to say this but she also has trust issues whether it is emotionally safe for her to come to you and share her deepest thoughts and feelings (intimacy). That is not to say that you don't have every right to be angry at her actions, but anger - and its twin sibling, bitterness - can be toxic -like alcohol - IF you allow it to rule your interactions with your wife. It can be an obstacle to finding out the truth because it makes you look - in her eyes - like you can't handle the truth. So when you get angry, catch yourself before opening your mouth and then ask yourself _"What is the point in getting angry at something that has already happened and can't be undone?" and "How is getting angry going to help me getting the whole truth from her?_. 

As far as your wife's bi-sexual tendencies are concerned, they pose a double risk since she now has to setup the same kind of boundaries with women that she has setup with men. She must if she has any hope of staying married to you.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> I agree with that, too, and have let her know that any experimentation is not excused strictly because it's experimentation. However, all of this happened before we were married. Two occurrences did occur while we were engaged, though.


you know who you married people ignore that very often than shocked later. Here is the thing you wont change her sexual tendencies or her preferences nor will you change her personality. You have to decide if you are okay with the cheating and the lying which are all bad signs.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Based on the story you have shared, to me it seems like there is a little more (or a lot in your W's perspective) that she isn't telling you. It is very likely the OM did not go in the house, it was probably sexual intercourse with both OM and OMW - to you it seems the details do not matter, cheating is cheating whether its with a woman, multiple women or man and a woman.

If that was all before making your marital vows I think you can put it to rest knowing she is faithful, but the problem is that because she has lied and seems to be continuing to lie there is no way for you to trust her. My concern would be what if this affair has been going on ever since?

It seems this is all about a matter of trust for you, as it should be, so if your W seems remorseful and wants to be married and not have affairs then tell her, ask her for the truth and when she says she has come clean about everything schedule a polygraph test and follow it through to its end. If she is expecting to be able to always hide stuff from you it makes her untrustworthy as a W.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> On the surface it may seem galling to say this but she also has trust issues whether it is emotionally safe for her to come to you and share her deepest thoughts and feelings (intimacy). That is not to say that you don't have every right to be angry at her actions, but anger - and its twin sibling, bitterness - can be toxic -like alcohol - IF you allow it to rule your interactions with your wife. It can be an obstacle to finding out the truth because it makes you look - in her eyes - like you can't handle the truth. So when you get angry, catch yourself before opening your mouth and then ask yourself _"What is the point in getting angry at something that has already happened and can't be undone?" and "How is getting angry going to help me getting the whole truth from her?_.
> 
> As far as your wife's bi-sexual tendencies are concerned, they pose a double risk since she now has to setup the same kind of boundaries with women that she has setup with men. She must if she has any hope of staying married to you.


Outstanding response. Thank you.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Lon said:


> Based on the story you have shared, to me it seems like there is a little more (or a lot in your W's perspective) that she isn't telling you. It is very likely the OM did not go in the house, it was probably sexual intercourse with both OM and OMW - to you it seems the details do not matter, cheating is cheating whether its with a woman, multiple women or man and a woman.
> 
> If that was all before making your marital vows I think you can put it to rest knowing she is faithful, but the problem is that because she has lied and seems to be continuing to lie there is no way for you to trust her. My concern would be what if this affair has been going on ever since?
> 
> It seems this is all about a matter of trust for you, as it should be, so if your W seems remorseful and wants to be married and not have affairs then tell her, ask her for the truth and when she says she has come clean about everything schedule a polygraph test and follow it through to its end. If she is expecting to be able to always hide stuff from you it makes her untrustworthy as a W.


How very right you are. Now she's trickle-truthing more to me as I'm putting the screws to her about it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a polygraph for her as a way to get all the cards on the table.

I don't think it's that she doesn't feel safe telling you she cheated the problem is she knows she cheated and she knows if the situation was reversed that she would divorce you.

You need to handle this carefully, because she just might loose respect for you if you just get over it. Clearly in her head, just getting over it isn't right, so if you do it she will loose trust in your judgement. Is that messed up or what? But it's also a real thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Get a polygraph for her as a way to get all the cards on the table.
> 
> I don't think it's that she doesn't feel safe telling you she cheated the problem is she knows she cheated and she knows if the situation was reversed that she would divorce you.
> 
> ...


How do these things become so tangled and jumbled up?

One of my guiding principles is that I make solid decisions based on fact. My wife is trickle truthing to me now another event, this one after we were married. How am I supposed to gather facts through this complex web of deceit?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I wrote down a timeline. I even gave her a calendar with all the dates listed on it. For me I only shared a little with my WS where I got my information. It is like peeling an onion. One layer at a time. I did not believe anything from her unless I could prove it at first. I knew when she was lying and when she was telling the truth (for the most part). Your wife was living a fantasy, a lie, so it comes easy for them to continue lying.

You are a Joe Friday guy, "Only the facts, ma'am". If that is what you need then do not settle for anything less.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Can you bait the OMW for more details? She never revealed the extent of their making out initially right?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

While I don't hold much credence for polygraph testing, just demanding one can be the cattle prod to bring out the whole truth in a spouse who is engaging in trickle truth. But I would caution you and only recommend this IF it becomes unbearable for you to wait for her to feel safe in opening up and confessing the whole truth to you. Give her a choice, the whole truth or the poly.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Can you bait the OMW for more details? She never revealed the extent of their making out initially right?


Not the full extent. It was the OMW that trickled to me that they kissed, my wife who admitted that it went further.

They both claim that the OM went to bed. They were very drunk, and after really grilling my wife about it, she says he went to bed before anything happened. He had been pushing OMW to kiss my wife in general but not specifically that night. When he saw that it wasn't happening that night in the hot tub, he went to bed and passed out. Then my wife and OMW felt safe enough to experiment with each other. OMW admitted to me before all this ever came out that she's also bi-curious.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> While I don't hold much credence for polygraph testing, just demanding one can be the cattle prod to bring out the whole truth in a spouse who is engaging in trickle truth. But I would caution you and only recommend this IF it becomes unbearable for you to wait for her to feel safe in opening up and confessing the whole truth to you. Give her a choice, the whole truth or the poly.


After all this trickle-truthing seemed to have ended, I asked her if she would submit to a poly. She whole-heartedly agreed and said she'd do whatever it took to win my trust back.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

calif_hope said:


> If I read this right she has not broken your marriage vows. Your wife was a young bride, you know it is so common for college woman to be bi-curious that it is almost a right-of-passage (usually drunken episodes). I expect the (undisclosed) numbers on this is high.
> 
> IMO you are making a mountain out of a very small mole-hill. I suggest strongly to chalk it up to a drunken expierement and both if you put it away. It seems to me your dramatics are stressing your wife to physical reaction.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Two these events occurred while you weren't married. I think you are making way too much over it as well.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I beg to differ with calif_hope and KanDo in that just because it happened while you were dating and she had sex with another woman doesn't mean that it is not as hurtful as if she had done it with the OM. To me it is the same as her having had sex with a male dancer while drunk at a bachelorette party and chosen not to tell you for fear of you calling it quits.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> I beg to differ with calif_hope and KanDo in that just because it happened while you were dating and she had sex with another woman doesn't mean that it is not as hurtful as if she had done it with the OM. To me it is the same as her having had sex with a male dancer while drunk at a bachelorette party and chosen not to tell you for fear of you calling it quits.



not only that but he married under false pretenses


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> not only that but he married under false pretenses


I wholeheartedly agree.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Keep them 'Likes' coming AR, that Lamborghini is almost mine. :rofl:


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you need two trillion likes for that prize


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

morituri said:


> I beg to differ with calif_hope and KanDo in that just because it happened while you were dating and she had sex with another woman doesn't mean that it is not as hurtful as if she had done it with the OM. To me it is the same as her having had sex with a male dancer while drunk at a bachelorette party and chosen not to tell you for fear of you calling it quits.


For me, being engaged and being married are two similar to just waive off these incidents. From the moment I asked her to marry me until about the end of the second year of marriage were a honeymoon period when we are both very attracted to each other. Had she cheated after I asked her to marry me, there would not have been a wedding. 

I think most people think that way, so I would not counsel the OP to do otherwise.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> After all this trickle-truthing seemed to have ended, I asked her if she would submit to a poly. She whole-heartedly agreed and said she'd do whatever it took to win my trust back.


So go ahead and do it, otherwise she is just calling your bluff. If she follows through and comes clean and is deemed trustworthy then you can stop looking back at this episode and start enjoying married life again.

As to others claiming this cheating happened before the wedding, sure there is some relevance despite it still being generally accepted that engagement is a committed and monogamous arrangement, however after the vows she is still behaving as if she is hiding this, your shaken trust is reasonable, even if it turns out she hadn't broken the covenant.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> I beg to differ with calif_hope and KanDo in that just because it happened while you were dating and she had sex with another woman doesn't mean that it is not as hurtful as if she had done it with the OM. To me it is the same as her having had sex with a male dancer while drunk at a bachelorette party and chosen not to tell you for fear of you calling it quits.


I agree completely. She agrees that these things were all very bad and that they fully constitute cheating.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> For me, being engaged and being married are two similar to just waive off these incidents. From the moment I asked her to marry me until about the end of the second year of marriage were a honeymoon period when we are both very attracted to each other. Had she cheated after I asked her to marry me, there would not have been a wedding.
> 
> I think most people think that way, so I would not counsel the OP to do otherwise.


Again, I've let her know that this is how I feel, and she agrees that it was cheating and that she screwed up big time.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

MSP said:


> Well, she's obviously sorry and she feels bad about it. Plus, she seems to have told you the truth, though you had to coax it out of her. It seems to me that you have everything you need for true R.
> 
> The thing with women's sexuality is that it's a lot more flexible than men's. Studies have shown that women get turned on by a lot of things in almost a random way. Women can get turned on by other women, even though they would swear that they are not turned on and have no homosexual feelings whatsoever. Men are conscious of what turns them on, for the most part, and don't cross those lines easily. Being drunk also lowers inhibitions by "shutting down" the prefrontal cortex to a degree. All of which is to say that if two drunk women make out it's not the least bit surprising that it went further. And she may well have not enjoyed it, but being drunk and aroused she just went with it without really knowing what else to do. It was also somewhat difficult to avoid it reoccurring if she was drunk and in the presence of other women with a penchant for experimentation. I doubt she got up that morning with a preconceived evening game-plan for bisexuality.
> 
> Lesson learned: wife shouldn't get drunk in the presence of other women without you around. Second lesson: if wife has bisexual friends, she might be best off finding other friends.


This is actually very insightful. All of this experimentation except one incident was when she was big into the Gay Straight Alliance at her college. The GSA is a college-oriented GLBT rights activist group. She was at GSA parties, so she wasn't just around people with a penchant for experimentation, she was partying with self-affirmed lesbians. She said that she was sloppy drunk and that she didn't necessarily want it, she just felt like she should because of the people she was around.

Still, I find that hard to accept. One time, maybe, but three? That's not an incident, that's a pattern. Of course it could be that the parameters of being drunk around lesbians is her trigger for that, but ultimately people are responsible for their actions. I don't know, this is all very confusing.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So if she down the road is friends with mommies that cheat, will she jump into too so she can fit in?

She just isn't owning her choices to cheat here. She is excusing them away. Mark my words, if you don't really deal with this now, especially consequences,it will happen again because your wife will down the road will again rationalize why cheating in a particular circumstance is ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

D,

You are right there is nothing wrong with being bisexual.

There is something wrong when you lie and cheat on a spouse, fiance or significant other.

If they have to lie then they know it is wrong to do.

I am glad you are open minded but shaggy is right that her cheating/boundary issues need to be addressed.

She definitely has self esteem issues methinks as well!

Good Luck and Do Not give up on Her Yet!

HM64


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Have you tried "I am going to keep talking to OMW and if it comes out that there was more that night, our marriage will be in serious trouble."


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Have you tried "I am going to keep talking to OMW and if it comes out that there was more that night, our marriage will be in serious trouble."


Yep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> D,
> 
> You are right there is nothing wrong with being bisexual.
> 
> ...


She has very poor self esteem, and an equally poor self image.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I suggest multiple polys since she is a serial cheater (whether you were married at the time or not). Simply tell her that it will not be her last one. That she will have to submit to them on an irregular basis. JMHO


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> So if she down the road is friends with mommies that cheat, will she jump into too so she can fit in?
> 
> She just isn't owning her choices to cheat here. She is excusing them away. Mark my words, if you don't really deal with this now, especially consequences,it will happen again because your wife will down the road will again rationalize why cheating in a particular circumstance is ok.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shaggy, I agree completely. She has admitted now that she has very poor boundaries. She says that she sees where she's put herself into bad situations and made even worse decisions while in them. I think she's in the beginning stages of taking responsibility, but she's not there yet. Still a lot of victim "this sort of just happened to me" talk. 

So what kind of consequences? Obviously no contact with any of these people still in our lives, all passwords, full access to PC/phone, no nights out with friends, no drinking without me, full acceptance of responsibility for her actions. What else? Is that too soft?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think the core consequence is that she can no longer indulge in even the beginnings of situations where she even might have boundary problems.

So drinking without you is gone.
Going away on weekends with gf etc without you is gone.
Full transparency on where she is and who she is with

She needs to understand, the above isnt a 2 week grounding. It's a long term set of changes she must make to commit to the relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

she's 23, still young.

Whatever restrictions/boundaries placed on her will eventually feel burdensome for both her and you. How long do you think she'll last under whatever restriction placed on her? How long before she rebels or you get tired of being her parole officer?

Have you considered divorce?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Damnit! I posted this long reply and as I was posting, I lost my wireless connection, and now it's gone. 

Oh well. I'll sum it up as best as I can remember: Her story is unbelievable, she's young and not ready for a lifetime monagamous hetero commitment, she can cheat, she likes boys and girls, and may eventually leave you. 

You decide if you want to watch her for the next few years. Whatever you do, DO NOT get her pregnant!!!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

aug said:


> she's 23, still young.
> 
> Whatever restrictions/boundaries placed on her will eventually feel burdensome for both her and you. How long do you think she'll last under whatever restriction placed on her? How long before she rebels or you get tired of being her parole officer?
> 
> Have you considered divorce?


I disagree. When you get married you lose all privacy privileges. There should be total transparency between both spouses regardless.

Dave, talk to her and explain that you both will have to share everything together. That is what marriage is. She has access to all your passwords, accounts, phone records etc and you have access to hers. You are married, you share things together. You both have to be completely honest with each other. Explain this and if she doesn't agree then she is not ready for marriage.

Oh, and definitely don't get her pregnant. Wait on children until she grows up and learns boundaries or else you might be raising OM's offspring.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

This morning I find myself plagued with contradicting thoughts regarding my marriage.

I've put a lot of work and a lot of myself into this marriage. I feel like I owe it to myself and to our marriage to see if we can stick it out. As such, I want to give her another chance. But what if she does it again? What if five years down the road I'm having divorce papers drawn up? I'll be 35 years old, we'll have a house by then so we'll be in debt, etc etc.

I laid out to her this morning all of my conditions for giving it another shot: NC letters, all passwords, access to all devices, marriage counseling, no going out with friends, no drinking when I'm not around, strict boundaries and understanding what kind of behavior is ok and isn't, full ownership that her actions were not the result of drinking or peer pressure but her own poor choices. I also laid out exactly what I consider to be inappropriate behavior, just so there can never be any ambiguity. She was more than willing to submit to all of them, and she even offered to take tomorrow off so we could start marriage counseling.

But I still feel like she's getting off too easy. She gets to stay married, we're still going to buy a house soon, she's been trying to get into veterinary school and she still gets that, her parents don't know any of this happened. A part of me wonders if I'm being played. I don't get that feeling from her, just doubts in my own mind.

I told her this morning that giving her another chance would be an act of faith on my part. Part of me wonders, is that what marriage is supposed to be? Faith that is corroborated by "trust, but verify?" But then, what is marriage itself but a mutual act of faith between two people? When two people marry they have absolutely no idea where life will take them.

Man, this stuff is so tangled and jumbled up. I know that if I decide to stick this out, then it really is an act of faith on my part, I really do have to give her another chance, and I have to do it regardless of what fears of the future I may have. But that's a lot easier to type than it is to do.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Dave, there are no promises in life. Life is risk and its rewards are only reserved for the risk takers.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Maybe postpone buying any property for a few years if you R.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> But I still feel like she's getting off too easy. She gets to stay married, we're still going to buy a house soon, she's been trying to get into veterinary school and she still gets that, her parents don't know any of this happened. A part of me wonders if I'm being played. I don't get that feeling from her, just doubts in my own mind.
> 
> I told her this morning that giving her another chance would be an act of faith on my part. Part of me wonders, is that what marriage is supposed to be? Faith that is corroborated by "trust, but verify?" But then, what is marriage itself but a mutual act of faith between two people? When two people marry they have absolutely no idea where life will take them.


That's the thing. You don't trust her right now because she has destroyed that trust. If you want to R, there's nothing wrong with that. Now, it's up to her to rebuild that trust. Her actions must match her words. Trust can eventually be rebuilt. 

That's why we verify. You are hypervigilant. That's a normal response to a traumatic event. Do you know what happens when you continue to verify over time and you find nothing and her actions match her words? You begin to get bored with verification because you are slowly learning to trust again. Eventually as she slowly rebuilds that trust, you begin to check less and less often. You will eventually reach the point where you forget when was the last time you checked on her. That is if she's being truthful and transparent.

Personally, and this is my opinion ONLY, I wouldn't R with someone who cheated on me before we were married and then in the beginning. R is difficult enough to recover from, 2-5 years on average. For me, it would be easier to start fresh with someone else. But that's just me. You may be different.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> That's the thing. You don't trust her right now because she has destroyed that trust. If you want to R, there's nothing wrong with that. Now, it's up to her to rebuild that trust. Her actions must match her words. Trust can eventually be rebuilt.
> 
> That's why we verify. You are hypervigilant. That's a normal response to a traumatic event. Do you know what happens when you continue to verify over time and you find nothing and her actions match her words? You begin to get bored with verification because you are slowly learning to trust again. Eventually as she slowly rebuilds that trust, you begin to check less and less often. You will eventually reach the point where you forget when was the last time you checked on her. That is if she's being truthful and transparent.
> 
> Personally, and this is my opinion ONLY, I wouldn't R with someone who cheated on me before we were married and then in the beginning. R is difficult enough to recover from, 2-5 years on average. For me, it would be easier to start fresh with someone else. But that's just me. You may be different.


Thanks for the thoughts. A little more background: I'm a former Marine and combat veteran of OIF. I was diagnosed with PTSD several years ago by multiple mental health professionals. As such, I'm very familiar with much of the post-traumatic symptoms (hyper-vigilance, flashbacks, etc) that follow these things, and in fact much of what I read in the CWI is textbook acute PTSD. The various support systems I have in place to deal with my PTSD has helped me deal with this.



> Dave, there are no promises in life. Life is risk and its rewards are only reserved for the risk takers.


Believe me, I know better than most.

It is my military and combat experiences that have given me one of my guiding principles: Examine the facts as you know them, formulate a decision, execute that decision making adjustments where needed, and don't armchair quarterback yourself later, just learn from any mistakes you made. I also fully understand the concept of going into the unknown with absolutely no guarantee that you'll make it out the other side.

Because this is such an emotionally charged situation, and because trust has been broken, the facts are sketchy at best. However, I feel like I have the best grasp on them that I'm going to get. I genuinely feel like she is sorry and that she truly wants another chance. She's said she wants to prove to me that she can be the wife that I deserve so that we can grow old together. She told me yesterday how much of a better person I make her. Could be flowery talk to throw me off the trail, but I honestly don't think so.

As such, while I understand the viewpoints of many of you who say I need to cut my losses now, I truly feel that I owe it to myself and our marriage to give her another shot. That's the route I'm going to go. I accept that it's an act of faith fraught with danger and the possibility of failure, but what worthwhile isn't, really?

Other than all the "trust but verify" stuff, what are some other steps that we can take to maximize our chance of success and move past all this?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Dave, also consider that your marriage may end due to forces other than infidelity. My first wife died of cancer over 20 years ago, leaving me with 3 small children. Enjoy the time you have with your wife for it - like everything in life - will come to an end.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> Dave, also consider that your marriage may end due to forces other than infidelity. My first wife died of cancer over 20 years ago, leaving me with 3 small children. Enjoy the time you have with your wife for it - like everything in life - will come to an end.


Thank you for that very poignant thought.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You could not have said it any better Morituri!!

Sometimes you just have to take the risks, jump in head first and live life to the fullest.

What is life without love and risks. Faith and trust are not always given. They have to be earned.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Welcome home Marine.

Dave, none of us have a crystal ball (which would be nice). I am just over a month out from my D-day. You take small steps at first. You will drive yourself crazy trying to lock up the future in a tidy little package where your wife will never cheat on you again.

It will be up to her to choose not to cheat. You can't control her. 

Perhaps IC for her to deal with boundary issues would be one the first things I would look into.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I think your her beard. Would her family be upset if they knew her orientation? Where you away on duty for an extended period? Once you said she wanted to be a Vet I was convinced she would become a full fledged lesbian eventually. Too many red flags to mention here. She is definately not mother material.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually, this could be a blessing in disguise. For one thing, I had a wake up call in my early twenties. It has given me the trust but verify mentality ever since and I am grateful for that. Having the rug pulled out from the unconditional love idea is a blessing. It makes you see things before they get started and also keeps your eyes and ears open. Its is unbelievable the number of people I have seen hurt and who actually hurt them. Thats why after the first GNO I ever heard of went off the cliff and another involving a newlywed in a parking lot, GNOs were never part of our marriage.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your boundary on drinking for now should be no drinking at all----whatsoever, any time, any where----maybe when she has earned the right to be trusted enuff to drink, years from now she can drink----I am sure her life will be just fine w/out alcohol

She also needs to go to IC, and find out why this prediliction to messing with other women

You can't keep her locked up in a tower---she does have to have friends---normal cheating female---can't have male friends---your wife has violated with both sexes---so you got to figure out who she can associate with

Hobbies, sports---exercise AT HOME---start to work on spicing up the mge.

Don't buy a home for a while---I know you probably don't want a shoe box full of rent receipts, but for now---till she is straightened out---and you two might make it---you need to just stay put


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Actually, this could be a blessing in disguise. For one thing, I had a wake up call in my early twenties. It has given me the trust but verify mentality ever since and I am grateful for that. Having the rug pulled out from the unconditional love idea is a blessing. It makes you see things before they get started and also keeps your eyes and ears open. Its is unbelievable the number of people I have seen hurt and who actually hurt them. Thats why after the first GNO I ever heard of went off the cliff and another involving a newlywed in a parking lot, GNOs were never part of our marriage.


I totally agree that having the idealism of what you thought marriage would be replaced with the realism of married life is a great thing. It really does make you look at things differently.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> I agree. I questioned my wife and OMW separately pretty hard about this. They both claim that he went inside to pass out before they began experimenting.


 They kissed at the OM's request because he found it exciting to watch. He went inside because he knew that they would not experiment if he stayed. I think the odds are very good that he watched from the house. If fact I would not be surprised if the wife knew that he would be watching.

As for people saying that it is not a big deal since it was before you were married, it was not that long ago since you have only been married 2.5 years, and you were in a committed relationship with her since you were in fact engaged. Bottom line, she recently cheated on you when she had sex with another person while in a committed relationship with you. That is a big deal. You have every right to be angry and concerned. 

She has a weak moral compass. The fact that she is bisexual, will make setting meaningful boundaries very difficult. The long term outcome is not good. You have no children and have very little time in this relationship. Think long and hard before having children and committing to staying in this marraige.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> I think your her beard. Would her family be upset if they knew her orientation? Where you away on duty for an extended period? Once you said she wanted to be a Vet I was convinced she would become a full fledged lesbian eventually. Too many red flags to mention here. She is definately not mother material.



way to cater towards stereotypes


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> way to cater towards stereotypes


You understood that?:scratchhead:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

People develop crushes on others all the time, even if they are married. The OM may have had a crush on the OP's wife before she was married. Nevertheless, he's a sc*mbag for having betrayed his wife by expressing to another married woman, his desire - lust - for her.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> People develop crushes on others all the time, even if they are married. The OM may have had a crush on the OP's wife before she was married. Nevertheless, he's a sc*mbag for having betrayed his wife by expressing to another married woman, his desire - lust - for her.


It's a super long and complicated story. Short(ish) version is this: OM and I became friends many years ago, prob 16 years ago at this point. Long before I met my wife, which was only 6 years ago. OM and I became friends, not best friends, but still close.

Fast forward to six years ago. I had been home from Iraq for a year, and OM introduced me to the woman that would become my wife. From the get-go, his wife (the OMW in my previous posts) had suspicions of his intentions, but ignores them. My wife and I meet, begin dating, and we all four become very close, me and OM become best friends and my wife and OMW become like sisters. OM and I start working out together 3x week, we all double date once a week, etc.

Suddenly and mysteriously, OM (who is still my very close friend at this point) begins acting very mentally unstable. This is around the time my wife and I got married. Over the next few months, the mutual friendships completely implode and OM and OMW move away. A year later is when I find evidence on FB that OM had been trying to have an affair with my wife. The evidence very clearly showed that my wife did not return his feelings, and other than the hot tub incident, there was no evidence that anything physical had ever happened. And rest assured that I cross-referenced those FB messages with emails and text messages. The only thing I didn't do was inform OMW, which I should have. 

That my wife did not rebuff him and shut him down, combined with the fact that she hid the whole thing from me, caused the first D-Day about a year after we married. Of course, I realize now why he suddenly became so mentally unstable: He had been pursuing my wife behind my back, which my wife did not tell me. Once we got married, he realized he'd never get her, and so began his slide into further mental instability. This week when he contacted my wife again, I finally called OMW and told her the full story. She served him divorce papers yesterday.

Like I said, it's a very complicated story. My wife understands now that by not rebuffing him clearly and completely, she led him on, which exacerbated these problems and caused a lot of damage.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Now that I'm fully re-reading all this, it's very clear to me: Soap operas ain't got sh!t on me.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> My wife understands now that by not rebuffing him clearly and completely, she led him on, which exacerbated these problems and caused a lot of damage.


Many women are non confrontational and don't want to hurt other people's feelings. In the case of the OM, because he had been such a close friend to both, she MAY have wanted to avoid hurting his feelings and so she foolishly chose not to rebuff him. The problem is that her silence only lead him to believe that she had feelings for him and so he persisted.



> Now that I'm fully re-reading all this, it's very clear to me: Soap operas ain't got sh!t on me.


Or on all of us denizens of this forum.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

soap operas glorify infidelity, you aren't


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Dave,

Can you please teach your wife to say "No!" or at least "No Thankyou!".

It will save you a lot of grief in the future and probably save her some grief as well.

Good Luck 

HM64


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## AUGUSTBABY (Aug 2, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> eh
> 
> its obvious you are having problems or else you would not have asked this question on here. I wish you best of luck however you need to decide what you want in life. The fact she has lied before is a huge red flag.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AUGUSTBABY (Aug 2, 2012)

AUGUSTBABY said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Give me a break! She was 21-23 and you were 27-29 and in combat? You have years of maturity and experience beyond her. She (obviously) is still in her drunken hot tub years. What is done is done. There is a difference between understanding a persons behavior and excusing it. Many (not all) young women confuse GETTING married (dresses, flowers, cake) with BEING (married). You talk about trickle truth but it reminds me of a teen dealing with a parent: she tells the least amount she can get away because it isn't going to be better for her to get it all out, you'll only be more pissed. And she is closer in age to a teen than you. I'd be more worried that she's drunk in that environment without a protector.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

dead thread!!!!!

last post was in Feb.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder did you ever take her to the poly and found out anything about the OM (did they have sex etc.)? What was the reason the OMW got divorced, her infidelity?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)




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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

She might have been 21 -23 years old at the time, but at that age, she knows right from wrong. Good from bad. Seems like these problems start when she's drinking. Maybe you should make sure that she has a two drink limit. Everybody knows that when your drunk you do really stupid things and when you sober up, the damage has been done.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

*tl;dr: *We're reconciling and have been since this thread was started 1.5 years ago.

*Long version:*
I was going to let this thread die, but a couple people convinced me to post the so-called rest of the story so that perhaps some reconciliation info could be helpful to others.

To get a full idea of the amount of destruction that came about due to my wife's infidelity, I have to tell the entire story. I'll make it as brief as I possibly can.

*------ Begin backstory that you can skip if you just want to know what's happened since OP of this thread --------------*

The story starts way back in '96 when I was a freshman in HS. I met an English teacher, J, who had just graduated college and was therefore very young - 22 or 23. He and his wife, M, became the Sunday school teachers at the church I attended. My friends and I used to hang at his house all the time. He would offer advice and guidance. It was a relationship I treasured.

Fast forward ten years to '06. I'd joined the Marine Corps Reserve as a machine gunner while in college and had come home from Iraq a year prior. I had stayed in touch with J over the years. One day he emailed me a picture of a young former student of his that he thought would be a great match for me. This was the woman who would one day become my W.

Needless to say my W and I hit it off, and we eventually became very close friends with J and M. We all four spent a lot of time with together. I still look at this time of our lives very fondly.

As my W and I became more serious and I proposed, we all noticed that J's behavior was becoming very erratic. He relapsed into drugs and alcohol - things he'd given up for the church. His behavior worsened to the point that we stopped hanging out with J and M altogether. Things came to a head only a few days before the wedding when W and I had a huge falling out with J and M. This was in September '09.

Fast forward to around Feb '10. My W has been going out on GNOs at a steady rate - 2-3/x per month. I become suspicious that she's cheating. That's when I first started lurking on TAM, and it's here that I learned about snooping. While I find no evidence that she'd cheated, I also found love letters from J to my W dated the months leading up to our wedding.

Suddenly everything in my mind clicked. Somewhere along the way J had fallen in love with my W. That explained why his behavior became so erratic the closer the wedding drew.

For my W's part, she had stopped responding to him once the correspondences became overtly romantic. However, she never told me about them, nor had she outright told him to stop. Regardless, the revelation of my "friend's" treachery was a huge shock to me. I'd been friends with J going on 15 years.

I confronted W about the whole thing but did not call M to tell her about J. His behavior had become so erratic that I just wanted him out of our lives altogether. I was afraid that telling M would antagonize J and have him show up at my door. Being a combat veteran, I still to this day sleep with an AR-15 next to my bed. I wanted to avoid any sort of confrontation with J that might result in legal trouble. All this is what I consider the first D-day.

Fast forward about a year to January 2012. We haven't heard from J. Out of nowhere, he starts texting and emailing harassing messages to W and me. I ignore it for a week or so, but when it doesn't stop, I eventually decide it's time to do what I should've done in the first place. I called M.

M is heartbroken but not surprised. That's when she tells me the first shocker: She'd left him a few months prior because he'd been stealing her medications and had even begun to display signs of aggression toward her. M had subsequently moved in with her sister several states away and was trying to decide between D or R. My call pushed her to D.

She then drops the second bomb. She tells me that she and my W had been intimate when my W and I were engaged. I was dumbstruck.

So that night I confronted my W. This was the second D-day, and it lasted for two weeks, as it turns out that having sex with M was only the tip of the iceberg.

*------ End backstory, begin rest of story since OP to this thread --------------*

After dragging all of the truth out of my W, we immediately started MC and IC for her. We were also reading books together, bonding like crazy, and having more sex than we'd ever had as a married couple. My W severed ties with all of the toxic friends she'd had during her serial cheating. She was very obviously remorseful.

During this time, J is still texting/emailing us. In these texts and emails, J begins taunting me about how he knew W had had sex with M. He also inadvertently admits that he and W had never had sex, just as my W had originally claimed. As he continues harassing us, he continues corroborating several of the other things my W had told me. Fate is one [email protected] up mistress, I guess. As such, I never truly felt the need to do any kind of poly on W.

J and M's divorce went through pretty quickly. Once their D was final, we stopped hearing from J and haven't heard from him since.

That brings us to right now. As I mentioned in this thread, my W had been accepted into veterinary school, an opportunity for which we would have to move across the state. I decided that I wanted to move irrespective of her opportunity because the job situation where we were living sucked.

So in April, right after I started this thread, we moved to Baton Rouge. She started school and I found a new job with double the pay and none of the stress of my previous job.

What about reconciliation? It's been a very difficult journey. Once the initial intense bonding eased, I began to look at everything more objectively. The first thing for me was getting to a point where I could leave my W if I so chose. I didn't want to stay with her out of fear or anything else. It had to be a choice. Getting to where I could make that choice was no easy feat.

The next difficult thing was realizing very clearly that my W had lied to me about the cheating because she'd known that I would not have married her had I known. As such, I'd made the decision based on incomplete information. I struggled with that for a very, very long time.

I've also struggled at times with the idea of consequences. One of the most bizarre things about being a BS is that if you decide to R, ultimately the WS gets to have everything they wanted. They got to have their fun but keep the marriage. That bothered me for a very long time.

There were some very low points. I hated my W at times. I hated our marriage. I was so resentful of her, of our marriage, of my being young, good looking, and successful, yet also tied down to this cheating woman.

My W did all the right things. She told me anything I wanted to know. She still texts me everywhere she goes, lets me read her emails/fb/texts, stays in contact with me all throughout the day. Some days all that stuff helped me feel better. Most days they didn't.

So why didn't I leave her? Because I had to know, ya know? I had to know that I'd given given our marriage a chance.

As a result, our marriage is at a far better place. That's not saying a whole lot. Our marriage was stalled and marred from the start. However, every day I'm just a little more glad that I stayed. I still don't trust her enough to tell her some things. Before I knew about the cheating, my W was one of only about three people outside of my war buddies that I could talk to about Iraq. I don't talk to her about it now.

That notwithstanding, we're doing very well, all things considered. I tell W all the time that she put me through enough drama in the first 3 years of marriage to last us the next 10, and she lives by that now 

*Note: *I will very likely ask to have this thread locked. I wanted to update it and keep it live so that it can be helpful to others, but the last thing I want is for some folks to come in here and start dissecting and picking apart our R for whatever sick amusement that provides these types of people. My W and I know where we are, and that's all that matters to us.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Glad to hear things are improving. Hope very soon arrives the day you realize it's the time to fully open to your wife.

Healing thoughts you way.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> *Note: *I will very likely ask to have this thread locked. I wanted to update it and keep it live so that it can be helpful to others, but the last thing I want is for some folks to come in here and start dissecting and picking apart our R for whatever sick amusement that provides these types of people. My W and I know where we are, and that's all that matters to us.


QFT

Glad an R is at least on the surface. Working for you. This is YOUR road. A chance YOU are taking.

Glad she seems fine being transparent. Thats the thing. Once that implicit 100% trust is gone it NEVER comes back.

BTW this follow up WILL be useful for some.


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