# Lying about sexual past - is it harmless?



## JustTheWife

I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all. 

For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.

Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.

But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.

Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/204514-what-do-i-do-am-i-unreasonable.html 


Any of these past men affecting your present - https://forgivenwife.com/archives-unbearable-lessons/

https://forgivenwife.com/transforming-premarital-scars/

https://forgivenwife.com/sexual-honesty/

You may think your hiding it well, but I would bet he has felt something is off.

Why do you have so little respect for him?


----------



## Andy1001

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


Your biggest problem is that if he ever finds out that you had sex with other guys while letting him believe you were a virgin he will be devastated.Unless you are very confident that nobody will ever know about your past then you need to tell him yourself.
I’m one of the people who isn’t overly concerned with my partners previous sex life but it works both ways,I have never asked her how many guys she had been with before me and I have never volunteered my past number either.
You don’t have to give an exact count,selective amnesia may be best for all concerned but if he wants full disclosure then you may have to tell him everything.
I wish you luck whatever you decide to do.


----------



## minimalME

JustTheWife said:


> I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret.


Really, the only issue here for me is that you felt compelled to explain yourself at all, and that the weight of that led you to lie.

Your past is yours - to share or not. But please don't feel that you have to lie or color the truth in order to gain the approval of others.

I'm one of the few here who believes that your past is none of anyone's business. Personally, the only information that I'd volunteer is STD testing. I'm completely willing to go in together with someone and be tested. That's it.

Forgive yourself, and move forward as a whole person, and a faithful wife, who's left those behaviors behind.


----------



## ConanHub

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/204514-what-do-i-do-am-i-unreasonable.html
> 
> 
> Any of these past men affecting your present - https://forgivenwife.com/archives-unbearable-lessons/
> 
> https://forgivenwife.com/transforming-premarital-scars/
> 
> https://forgivenwife.com/sexual-honesty/
> 
> You may think your hiding it well, but I would bet he has felt something is off.
> 
> Why do you have so little respect for him?


Great resources. Thanks for the link to your story. I haven't seen it yet but checking it out now.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> Really, the only issue here for me is that you felt compelled to explain yourself at all, and that the weight of that led you to lie.
> 
> Your past is yours - to share or not. But please don't feel that you have to lie or color the truth in order to gain the approval of others.
> 
> I'm one of the few here who believes that your past is none of anyone's business. Personally, the only information that I'd volunteer is STD testing. I'm completely willing to go in together with someone and be tested. That's it.
> 
> Forgive yourself, and move forward as a whole person, and a faithful wife, who's left those behaviors behind.


While I would generally agree with some ideas you have posted, this situation is different.

She lied to manipulate and obtain this relationship. If she was honest and contrite, she might have won him over anyway but she based their foundation on a lie that will continue to undermine their marriage.

Church people love sharing testimonials and their story will come up over the years, requiring her to actively continue to lie. It is bad enough for a relationship to continue to lie by omission but this is even worse.

I encourage her to humbly come clean with him.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Tough call. You love him and feel guilty about lying, but the truth would hurt him and reveal your sin(s) (premarital relations and lying to hubby). I totally understand why you told him you were pure back when you were just friends, but now that you've kept that up for so long it could be earth-shattering for him to find out. A little white lie has become a shaky foundation. You know your hubby better than us. Your heart and soul will rest easier if you tell him, but how will he take it? Can you take it to the grave if it means he'll always be happy? Only you can decide.

BTW - I see nothing wrong with you "sewing some oats" before you settled down. It's the white lie that became the issue.


----------



## SunCMars

Keep quiet.

Years, buried by more and more layers of dust hide the truth.

Be a good wife and stop worrying about a past you cannot change. It is what it is.

Oh, take your time.
Come up with a very good, plausible reason for your deception. In case it ever comes to light. I suspect not.

Stop worrying about yesterday, live for today and tomorrow.

He knew you were not a virgin when he planted his flag in your front garden.


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> While I would generally agree with some ideas you have posted, this situation is different.
> 
> She lied to manipulate and obtain this relationship. If she was honest and contrite, she might have won him over anyway but she based their foundation on a lie that will continue to undermine their marriage.
> 
> Church people love sharing testimonials and their story will come up over the years, requiring her to actively continue to lie. It is bad enough for a relationship to continue to lie by omission but this is even worse.
> 
> I encourage her to humbly come clean with him.


I understand what you're saying, and I agree that she was dishonest. Manipulative - maybe. I don't think it was malicious, but more out fear. That doesn't make it right, but I don't think talking about it with her husband will make their marriage better.

She can't go back and change the past, but she can be a great wife in the now.

In terms of being a Christian and sharing her testimony, that's completely up to her. People edit their lives all the time, sharing what they want, leaving out details that people might judge.

None of us are 100% honest. I believe it's human to shade the truth. I don't believe that lying is something we do as much as it's a part of who we are. We hide. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves.

As I've gotten older, my personal experience has been the less said, the better. I used to be one of those people who tried so hard to work through problems with others - sharing my views and opinions on things, being completely honest and straightforward. It didn't improve the relationship most of the time.


----------



## JustTheWife

Thank you so far for the input. Frazzled, those are great links and i've already read a lot of it and will do in more detail and think about it.

Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode. 

The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question. Maybe I should not have said anything and just said it was none of his business when we talked about that. But we were just friends and I made a quick decision to just lie. I didn't want him not to like me. I could have corrected it later but just kept it up.


----------



## ConanHub

Are any of your sex partners in the same city as you?

You know husbands do talk about being happy and proud of their wives as often as others gripe about them.

What are the chances of him finding out from someone else?

Anyhow. I have seen this jazz song played out more times than I care to remember and every time lies are chosen the situation deteriorates.

Truth can be worked with and built on, lies destroy and can only have more lies built on them.

I would rather have a talk with an honest ***** over a dishonest virgin any day.


----------



## JustTheWife

minimalME said:


> I understand what you're saying, and I agree that she was dishonest. Manipulative - maybe. I don't think it was malicious, but more out fear. That doesn't make it right, but I don't think talking about it with her husband will make their marriage better.
> 
> She can't go back and change the past, but she can be a great wife in the now.
> 
> In terms of being a Christian and sharing her testimony, that's completely up to her. People edit their lives all the time, sharing what they want, leaving out details that people might judge.
> 
> None of us are 100% honest. I believe it's human to shade the truth. I don't believe that lying is something we do as much as it's a part of who we are. We hide. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves.
> 
> As I've gotten older, my personal experience has been the less said, the better. I used to be one of those people who tried so hard to work through problems with others - sharing my views and opinions on things, being completely honest and straightforward. It didn't improve the relationship most of the time.


Thank your for this. I think it's very wise


----------



## minimalME

JustTheWife said:


> Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.


Yeah - this is why, as a Christian, I don't bother attending anymore. 

The Church should be a safe haven for everyone, and it isn't. It's unfortunate.


----------



## ConanHub

Are you so certain the marriage would be over?

You haven't cheated on him.

Read about Rahab. She became the wife of Salmon and the mother of Boaz who married Ruth.

Rahab was a prostitute, and probably a very successful one from the fact she was supporting her family and owned her own home.

She had a life changing moment and chose to go in a different direction with her life.

She became an honorable wife and mother, leaving her former life behind but not by lying about it.

Your "friends" are dirty sinners as well. We all are and they are not any better than anyone else.

I believe your husband needs to know and I believe you need him to know you for real.

It is a need to be naked and unashamed with your spouse. Your marriage has never experienced this. He might have secrets as well.

I encourage you to really be one with each other.


----------



## SunCMars

minimalME said:


> I understand what you're saying, and I agree that she was dishonest. Manipulative - maybe. I don't think it was malicious, but more out fear. That doesn't make it right, but I don't think talking about it with her husband will make their marriage better.
> 
> She can't go back and change the past, but she can be a great wife in the now.
> 
> In terms of being a Christian and sharing her testimony, that's completely up to her. People edit their lives all the time, sharing what they want, leaving out details that people might judge.
> 
> None of us are 100% honest. I believe it's human to shade the truth. I don't believe that lying is something we do as much as it's a part of who we are. We hide. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves.
> 
> As I've gotten older, my personal experience has been the less said, the better. I used to be one of those people who tried so hard to work through problems with others - sharing my views and opinions on things, being completely honest and straightforward. It didn't improve the relationship most of the time.


Amen to this. :smile2:


----------



## ConanHub

LOL!

I'm enjoying the mentions of Christianity, God and the Amen statements in regards to supporting lying.

I am not old yet, close, but far from young and been with my wife for over 26 years.

We would not have made it 5 years without being honest with at least each other and as the years go by, the more honesty and truth are requirements.

I don't believe her past is anyone's business but her husband needs to know because of the lies, it is between them.

I will say that the references to god and statements of "Amen!" in conjunction with lying in no way has anything to do with my God or the Lord I worship.

It will be a different god that is mentioned. A lesser god. The father of lies.


----------



## oldshirt

I've read back through a number of your other posts. 

I think the issues here go much deeper than simply, "don't ask, don't tell," and "what he doesn't know won't hurt him."

I am typically very much in the camp of thinking that private matters should remain private and that one's sex life is their own business. 

I myself have been in the swinging lifestyle for many years with my wife. Should I ever become divorced or widowed, I do not have any intentions of discussing that with any potential future partners. It would be known that I was married, I have two children and there for it could be presumed that I had a marital sexlife during the course of my marriage. I would see no reason to go into any more detail than that. 

I say that so you grasp the fact I firmly believe one's private matters should remain private. 

The issue I see here is not so much that you did not divulge your sexual past. I believe you are entitled to your privacy and discretion as the next person. 

Now there is always the risk that your H will some how find out about your past and if that happens, that may well be a 'game-over-man. Game-over!" moment. 

Especially since you deliberately lied about it and deceived him into thinking that you were a different person that what you really are. As he was actively duped into believing you were different kind of person with a different set of values, mores and beliefs, this is really nothing less than fraud and he would be in his full right to drop the microphone and walk away without looking back. 

But if you are willing to risk that potential outcome in order to protect your privacy, then so be it. That is your prerogative. 

My concern however goes much deeper that some gal having a ****y past that she is trying to hide from her alter boy husband. Basically all wives do that to one degree or another (as do many husbands). 

My concern is your general lack of compatibility with your H. IMHO you two simply aren't a match. In misrepresenting yourself to him during your friendship and then dating and then ultimately marrying, you weren't true to yourself either. 

You basically play-acted and portrayed a character in a role that was not your true self. You may have believed he was a good man and the kind of man that you "should" love and desire and want to be with and have be the father of your children and provide you a place in the church and community - but he really wasn't actually the right match for you. 

You can play-act for awhile and you can dupe people into marrying you and you can play that movie script for a period of time. ......... but you can't sustain it forever. 

The cracks in the foundation are starting to crumble here. The water and dirt and debris are starting to seep in and expand the cracks. 

You portrayed yourself as a different person so you could get with and marry the wrong person. 

I don't know if you have daddy issues or if you were trying to appease your mother or make your clergy happy or if your mother's voice in your head was telling you to marry a man like your H, but in my humble opinion, you married him for other people (which would also include the character your portraying) and not because he was someone you loved and desired and had passion for yourself. 

Whether you ever tell him or not tell him is your choice and is simply another factor amongst all the other things wrong with this picture.


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> LOL!
> 
> I'm enjoying the mentions of Christianity, God and the Amen statements in regards to supporting lying.
> 
> I am not old yet, close, but far from young and been with my wife for over 26 years.
> 
> We would not have made it 5 years without being honest with at least each other and as the years go by, the more honesty and truth are requirements.
> 
> I don't believe her past is anyone's business but her husband needs to know because of the lies, it is between them.
> 
> I will say that the references to god and statements of "Amen!" in conjunction with lying in no way has anything to do with my God or the Lord I worship.
> 
> It will be a different god that is mentioned. A lesser god. The father of lies.


I disagree. I think motive and intention are important.

As I said, we all lie in some form or another. Saying that doesn't mean I'm an advocate for lying. It means that I accept people as fallen human beings who are cut off from being all that we were created to be.

If you want to believe that you and your wife are 100% honest with each other? Okay.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Tough call. You love him and feel guilty about lying, but the truth would hurt him and reveal your sin(s) (premarital relations and lying to hubby). I totally understand why you told him you were pure back when you were just friends, but now that you've kept that up for so long it could be earth-shattering for him to find out. *A little white lie has become a shaky foundation.* You know your hubby better than us. Your heart and soul will rest easier if you tell him, but how will he take it? Can you take it to the grave if it means he'll always be happy? Only you can decide.
> 
> BTW - I see nothing wrong with you "sewing some oats" before you settled down. It's the white lie that became the issue.





JustTheWife said:


> Thank you so far for the input. Frazzled, those are great links and i've already read a lot of it and will do in more detail and think about it.
> 
> Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.
> 
> *The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question.* Maybe I should not have said anything and just said it was none of his business when we talked about that. But we were just friends and I made a quick decision to just lie. I didn't want him not to like me. I could have corrected it later but just kept it up.


This is not a little white lie. A little white lie is small and harmless. Read the part in red. Does this really seem like a small, harmless lie considering what JustTheWife is going through over it? 

Now consider the part in bold. This marriage is built on and maintained by deceit. JustTheWife married a man under false pretenses that she would not have been able to marry if she were honest, and now has to continue the lie in order to continue the marriage. It's clearly eating her up, and that means the truth is bound to come out at some point, and when it does her "husband" is going to know that he's been robbed of a true marriage.

People are telling you to continue the lie so you don't lose your marriage. Selfish! You got what you want at the expense of what your "husband" wants. Now it's getting to you but you're going to selfishly continue to deny him the chance at a real relationship?

Btw, that part in red? That's God working on you trying to get you to stop sinning. If you were to die in a car accident today, unrepentant with this sin in your heart, where would you end up?

JustTheWife, is there anyone in your husbands life that is truly safe for him to trust?


----------



## oldshirt

If you come clean and tell him - there is a realistic chance he will opt out and that would completely be within his right. 

Even if he doesn't leave, he will lose so much esteem and respect and admiration for you that he would not be able to cherish you and honor you to the degree that a Godly man should honor his wife. 

If you don't tell him and he finds out - he (and his whole family and the rest of his friends and perhaps the whole church congregation) will forever view you as dog poop in the treads of their shoes and even if he doesn't drop the microphone and walk away, he will likely forever treat you with a terrible degree of disdain and disrespect and see you as not only tainted and dirty, but perhaps as actually evil. 

And if you don't tell and he does not find out - Then you will remain with a person with whom you are fundamentally incompatible and mismatched and you will have a chronically frustrating and disappointing marriage and will have to live with a degree of resentment and bitterness as your resentment grows. 

There is no easy out here because you perpetuated a fraud here. 

Covering up and spackling over giving a few BJs to some dudes in cars and tearing off a number of ONSs after a night at the club is not the real issue and is not the unforgivable sin here. Like I said before, ALL wives have done that to one degree or another. 

The thing that cannot be reconciled here is you presented a fictional character to him that does not really exist. He married a person that does not exist and you married a person that does not turn you on, satisfy you and that you do not truly respect as a man. 

Neither you telling or keeping it a lifelong secret will fix that.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> I disagree. I think motive and intention are important.
> 
> As I said, we all lie in some form or another. Saying that doesn't mean I'm an advocate for lying. It means that I accept people as fallen human beings who are cut off from being all that we were created to be.
> 
> If you want to believe that you and your wife are 100% honest with each other? Okay.


Well. I didn't take a jab at your personal life so maybe you shouldn't take jabs at mine.

We have been honest with each other, even when it is brutal and hurts.

That honesty has allowed us to know each other and care very deeply for each other.

OP isn't talking about a small, inconsequential missed opportunity for a truth about something harmless.

Her lies, by her own posts, have terrible consequences and are anything but harmless according to her own judgement.

That was her initial question. Is it harmless?

Obviously not.

Don't take shots at my marriage. You have had your experiences and I have had mine.

I'm willing to believe you have good personal reasons for thinking like you do but I'm not disparaging you about our differences.

I will claim you aren't referencing my God though because you aren't.


----------



## barbados

The issue here is not your sexual past. The issue here is the you knowing lied to your now H about something you know was important to him, and you maintained this lie in order to get something you wanted, which was a marriage to him.

This would be no different than if you had lied about something else that you knew would be a deal breaker for him. Its not about sex, its about lying.

I don't agree that he would necessarily divorce you if you came clean now, but he deserves the right to make that decision for himself, and you need to be mature and accept the consequences either way.

You will never know peace until you do. Do you really want to live like that ?


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> Well. I didn't take a jab at your personal life so maybe you shouldn't take jabs at mine.
> 
> We have been honest with each other, even when it is brutal and hurts.
> 
> That honesty has allowed us to know each other and care very deeply for each other.
> 
> OP isn't talking about a small, inconsequential missed opportunity for a truth about something harmless.
> 
> Her lies, by her own posts, have terrible consequences and are anything but harmless according to her own judgement.
> 
> That was her initial question. Is it harmless?
> 
> Obviously not.
> 
> Don't take shots at my marriage. You have had your experiences and I have had mine.
> 
> I'm willing to believe you have good personal reasons for thinking like you do but I'm not disparaging you about our differences.
> 
> I will claim you aren't referencing my God though because you aren't.


I apologize. It wasn't meant as a personal jab. I include the whole world, throughout time, with the exception of Christ. NO ONE is 100% honest in what they share with other people. 

Anyone who wants to believe that they're completely honest with others all the time is in denial of reality.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.


That's what he *believes* about you and it's not true, so why are you *SO* sure he's not lying like you are? I don't really know of any teenage boys who don't an erection when the damned wind blows, so it's kind of hard to believe that he was as pure as the driven snow until you got married. * Real* hard (unless he looks like Steve Buscemi - then I'd totally believe him).

Secondly, experience has taught me that being 100% honest about your past will bite you in the ass over and over and over and over and over and over until the day you die (unless you fake your own death just to make it stop, that is). And it's a hollow victory to be able to claim you were totally honest when all that honesty got you was continued punishment.

It ain't worth it.

Telling him at this point will serve no purpose whatsoever. None. He can't reach into the past and undo anything, nor can you. The only thing you'll accomplish at this point is making yourself feel better. That's all you're going to accomplish. And if your church is calling people who have premarital sex ho's and heathens, then I can only imagine their name for someone who dares to get a divorce. 

Get right with God on your own terms and leave the past in the past.

Or, wait until he's 70 and then tell him. It's not like he's going to divorce you at that age. Old men can barely make their own damn sandwiches much less take care of themselves all alone, so he's not going to divorce you because he depends on you too much.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> I apologize. It wasn't meant as a personal jab. I include the whole world, throughout time, with the exception of Christ. NO ONE is 100% honest in what they share with other people.
> 
> Anyone who wants to believe that they're completely honest with others all the time is in denial of reality.


In that light, I will agree but it is a far different situation to actively, intentionally and unrepentantly lie to your spouse about obviously important issues.

As far as none of us being able to be 100%, I absolutely agree.

When we become aware of something we are doing wrong however, we should try to make it right.

I want this woman to have a really good and strong marriage to her husband.

I do not want them to divorce. What they have now is weak and painful.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> The thing that cannot be reconciled here is you presented a fictional character to him that does not really exist. He married a person that does not exist and you married a person that does not turn you on, satisfy you and that you do not truly respect as a man.
> 
> Neither you telling or keeping it a lifelong secret will fix that.


The only happy ending that I can see coming out of this is if you drop the play-acting and take of the good-girl mask and he falls in love with and accepts the real you. 

IMHO your true self was the one that was blowing dudes in cars and coming home from the club for a drunken romp. From your other posts I think you have a strong and vital sexuality and I don't think it is at all healthy to keep that tiger locked up in a tiny cage to placate some alter boy. 

In my estimation the only way for this to have a happy ending is if you let the tiger out of the cage (within the marriage) and hope that he falls in love with the real and he is able to step to the plate and change from alter boy into a tiger himself. 

As others have stated previously, there is not one single passage in the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Morman or any of the teachings of Buddha or Hinduism that state that marital sex can not be hot, passionate, sweating, breathless, nasty and lustful. All those religions ask is that it be within the marriage with your spouse. (or spouses if plural marriage is officially endorsed) 

If he is a dud in bed and doesn't meet your needs, That is on him as an individual and not due to the teachings of any official religious doctrine. That is because you misrepresented yourself to an inhibited, uptight and rigid alter boy. That part is on you. 

If you unleash the tiger, his inner tiger may get unleashed as well and he may step up to the plate and be the lover you need. 

Or he may send you packing. 

Either way, at least then you'll know where you stand. 

But your charade is eventually doomed to fail if you continue to try to be someone you are not.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Nucking Futs said:


> This is not a little white lie. A little white lie is small and harmless.
> *It WAS just a little white lie when she first told him, out of whatever shame she had over it. Back when they were just friends. But Not telling him the truth before they got engaged/married is when it became dangerous. That is what I was saying. And I didn't say she should keep lying.*
> 
> ... If you were to die in a car accident today, unrepentant with this sin in your heart, where would you end up?
> *WOW now you're sending her to Hell?!? You're a great example of Christianity.*
> 
> JustTheWife, is there anyone in your husbands life that is truly safe for him to trust?
> *It sounds like they are a loving couple that take good care of each other. She just made a mistake early on in their courtship, and felt compelled to hide the truth because of people like you and your judgements. NOW, it has become a bigger issue, as time has passed. Have the shame and teachings of her community caused her to make mistakes and compounded the implications of those mistakes? Yes. But does she love and cherish her Husband, and her God? Yes.
> Is she going to Hell over this? Really don't think so. Does she have a very tough decision to make, with a duty to be truthful to her husband while trying not to break his heart? Sadly, Yes.*


----------



## ConanHub

I'm only 47 and I can't make a sammich!!😁


----------



## RoseAglow

@JustTheWife, if reading TAM has taught me anything, it is that men like your H who really care about sexual purity cannot handle learning their wives had- and lied- about their sexual past. 

If your H were posting here and said that he had just learned that you had lied about your sexual past and that you were sexually experienced:

1. You, as the wife would be called "*****" (as you can already see above), "a doorknob", "****", "bicycle" etc. Your H would be encouraged to see you as these things. [Edited to add: I didn't realize some of those words would get filtered out. Let's just say you would be viewed as an extremely promiscuous person, filthy and used.]
2. He would be encouraged to consider what else you may have lied about. He would probably be encouraged to go through your phone, your emails, to put a Voice Activated Recorder in your car. 
3. He would probably be encouraged to polygraph you, and if you protest, file divorce papers on you.

In short, guys like these flip their ****, at least on TAM. This is one of the big blows to their male egos. It shakes their very foundations.

If you think I'm exaggerating, go do a search here. You'll see it play out in thread after thread after thread.

Of course, TAM is a self-selected audience. Men who find out and don't flip their **** probably aren't looking for marriage forums online. You know your H better than anyone, and you have to work out what you can live with yourself. Personally, I would not be able to live long-term in a relationship where I was hiding a secret. It's also important to me that I can be who I really am in my marriage- it's a safe haven for me. I don't want to always be looking over my shoulder, afraid that the truth will come out. 

So I'm not posting to encourage you in one direction or the other. I'm posting to give you a head's up on what could happen if you do decide to tell all.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

oldshirt said:


> IMHO your true self was the one that was blowing dudes in cars and coming home from the club for a drunken romp. *Where did she say she was "blowing dudes in cars"?*


 *Where did she say she was "blowing dudes in cars"?*


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> In that light, I will agree but it is a far different situation to actively, intentionally and unrepentantly lie to your spouse about obviously important issues.
> 
> As far as none of us being able to be 100%, I absolutely agree.
> 
> When we become aware of something we are doing wrong however, we should try to make it right.
> 
> I want this woman to have a really good and strong marriage to her husband.
> 
> I do not want them to divorce. What they have now is weak and painful.


But she can't make it right. Not really. She can bring it up, but it's just going to cause more damage.

Does it make their marriage weak? In a way, yes. But, let's be honest, the majority of relationships (in general - not just marriages) aren't as great as we'd all like them to be.

She can't go back and change the past.

She can, however, be the person she wants to be now. She can choose to be an exemplary wife, moment by moment, day by day, by making better choices now.


----------



## sokillme

Yes this is a very big deal. If him having a shared sexual experience especially you both being virgins was a part of who he was looking to marry was important to him then you essentially defrauded him. I suspect it was. My wife and I were not virgins but had a very low count, if I were to find out she lied about that it would really change my perception about her. Also her ability to lie to me for years about something she knew was important to me would be akin to cheating on me. 

He will find out eventually, you have made a horrible mistake. 

The next question is how are you able to live so long without being honest? You built your whole sexual relationship on a lie. You think it's not a big deal.


----------



## ConanHub

@RoseAglow

You should be fair to TAM men.

There are some as you have described but a lot of us are even handed.

There are vitriolic men and women here and everything in between.

Not accurate to paint with your broad brush.

I like your post aside from that and I don't know how her husband will react.

I sincerely hope he loves her and understands her fear in initially lying about her sexual history.

Maybe OP could get involved with a counselor to help her?

Not one from her church. They sound a bit unhelpful to say the least.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

I must state that my perspectives are based on the fact that my DW had never kissed or had relations with ANY other boys or men before joining me. She also never poops or farts.


----------



## sokillme

minimalME said:


> Forgive yourself, and move forward as a whole person, and a faithful wife, who's left those behaviors behind.


How can you be a whole person when your whole sexual marriage is built on a continued lie?

They would have never been sexually compatible had she told him.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> But she can't make it right. Not really. She can bring it up, but it's just going to cause more damage.
> 
> Does it make their marriage weak? In a way, yes. But, let's be honest, the majority of relationships (in general - not just marriages) aren't as great as we'd all like them to be.
> 
> She can't go back and change the past.
> 
> She can, however, be the person she wants to be now. She can choose to be an exemplary wife, moment by moment, day by day, by making better choices now.


I totally agree she can't change the past.

She can stop lying to her husband in the present and future.

This issue is obviously between them and he might be feeling the effects even if he doesn't know what it is about.

I do not doubt she is a good wife. While I would never endorse it, if this wasn't an 800 lb. gorilla in the way of becoming closer with her husband, she might have a good shot at a very satisfying marriage.

The situation at hand keeps her on edge and will for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Ynot

I think ultimately it comes down to whether or not the OP can live with the secret. if not then it is up to her H to decide if he can accept finding out the truth.


----------



## sokillme

minimalME said:


> I disagree. I think motive and intention are important.
> 
> As I said, we all lie in some form or another. Saying that doesn't mean I'm an advocate for lying. It means that I accept people as fallen human beings who are cut off from being all that we were created to be.
> 
> If you want to believe that you and your wife are 100% honest with each other? Okay.


Let's not use the word honest let's use the word Authentic. This women is far from that. I don't know how anyone can have a good marriage let alone relationship when they won't be authentic warts and all.


----------



## Ynot

However given some of the more recent threads where men have discovered their partners past and couldn't stomach the reality, due mainly to their own insecurities, I can see why the OP would be hesitant to speak the truth.


----------



## JustTheWife

oldshirt said:


> If you come clean and tell him - there is a realistic chance he will opt out and that would completely be within his right.
> 
> Even if he doesn't leave, he will lose so much esteem and respect and admiration for you that he would not be able to cherish you and honor you to the degree that a Godly man should honor his wife.
> 
> If you don't tell him and he finds out - he (and his whole family and the rest of his friends and perhaps the whole church congregation) will forever view you as dog poop in the treads of their shoes and even if he doesn't drop the microphone and walk away, he will likely forever treat you with a terrible degree of disdain and disrespect and see you as not only tainted and dirty, but perhaps as actually evil.
> 
> And if you don't tell and he does not find out - Then you will remain with a person with whom you are fundamentally incompatible and mismatched and you will have a chronically frustrating and disappointing marriage and will have to live with a degree of resentment and bitterness as your resentment grows.
> 
> There is no easy out here because you perpetuated a fraud here.
> 
> Covering up and spackling over giving a few BJs to some dudes in cars and tearing off a number of ONSs after a night at the club is not the real issue and is not the unforgivable sin here. Like I said before, ALL wives have done that to one degree or another.
> 
> The thing that cannot be reconciled here is you presented a fictional character to him that does not really exist. He married a person that does not exist and you married a person that does not turn you on, satisfy you and that you do not truly respect as a man.
> 
> Neither you telling or keeping it a lifelong secret will fix that.


Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.

Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


----------



## Ynot

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


That is the stuff that will continue to eat away at you. Either you need to resolve this in your own mind or you need to come clean. However your H reacts will be on him.
PS, I am willing to bet some of them (fellow members of the church) probably already know what you did when you were younger but either don't care, assume your H already knows or secretly look down their noses at you.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


I submit to you, your whole thinking that "The past is just the past" is pretty much not an logical way of thinking about it. As proof I offer your whole life. At you your life as you know it now, with years of lying to the most important person in it, has your past just been the past or has it pretty much not effected your whole entire life?

If you really believed that you would have told him in the first place.

No the past is never the past it shapes our entire life. And this is never going to go away, better to get in front of it.

Here is the thing, you believe in a religion whose many tenant is forgiveness and mercy. Assuming the people in the church feel the same way and even your husband then you have a good chance. If anything you are in a much safer place because of it. You need to take the first step though and come clean. I say that because 2 things are likely to happen. 1. this will start to affect your marriage emotionally, which it probably is already doing, because it's affecting you. 2. he will find out from someone else, then all the grace you may get will probably be lost. 

Do you have kids?


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Since religion is playing a very big part in this, may I ask just what branch of Christianity are you? My family are Lutherans, and I expect our Pastor would try to counsel you both on being truthful and forgiving, and focusing on the goodness and love in your relationship. Gaining strength from this, and never lying to one another in the future. Or, if you're Roman Catholic like mine and my wife's mothers - then you can commit any sin imaginable on Friday night as long as you say confession and put some money in the pot on Sunday. God loves cash, apparently.


----------



## ConanHub

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


LOL!

Girl, you are a fresh, white snow drift compared to me.

I was a wild man before I got corralled by Mrs. Conan.

She knew what she was getting into though and so did I.

She got me into church eventually and even before that, I had become a good and loving husband and father.

You chose to leave the promiscuous behavior behind and you are a solid wife now.

No one is better than you. Your only bad choice here was not being honest with your man.

I had 60 women by the time I was 20. I took a woman in front of her sister and then her as well.

I have woken up drunk in bed with a cute blond and her angry boyfriend standing over us.

I chose to become someone different and did.

I now pour my passion into my wife and I am a solid husband.

You are definitely no worse than me and I am respected in my circles.

Your husband isn't better than you either. You are just as deserving of a good mate as him or anyone.


----------



## JustTheWife

RoseAglow said:


> @JustTheWife, if reading TAM has taught me anything, it is that men like your H who really care about sexual purity cannot handle learning their wives had- and lied- about their sexual past.
> 
> If your H were posting here and said that he had just learned that you had lied about your sexual past and that you were sexually experienced:
> 
> 1. You, as the wife would be called "*****" (as you can already see above), "a doorknob", "****", "bicycle" etc. Your H would be encouraged to see you as these things. [Edited to add: I didn't realize some of those words would get filtered out. Let's just say you would be viewed as an extremely promiscuous person, filthy and used.]
> 2. He would be encouraged to consider what else you may have lied about. He would probably be encouraged to go through your phone, your emails, to put a Voice Activated Recorder in your car.
> 3. He would probably be encouraged to polygraph you, and if you protest, file divorce papers on you.
> 
> In short, guys like these flip their ****, at least on TAM. This is one of the big blows to their male egos. It shakes their very foundations.
> 
> If you think I'm exaggerating, go do a search here. You'll see it play out in thread after thread after thread.
> 
> Of course, TAM is a self-selected audience. Men who find out and don't flip their **** probably aren't looking for marriage forums online. You know your H better than anyone, and you have to work out what you can live with yourself. Personally, I would not be able to live long-term in a relationship where I was hiding a secret. It's also important to me that I can be who I really am in my marriage- it's a safe haven for me. I don't want to always be looking over my shoulder, afraid that the truth will come out.
> 
> So I'm not posting to encourage you in one direction or the other. I'm posting to give you a head's up on what could happen if you do decide to tell all.


Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it and i probably need this dose of reality.


----------



## Primrose

JustTheWife said:


> It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.


These friends/church members are no better than the dirt they sling at others. 



JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


Your past does not define your present. I'm so tired of **** shaming. There's nothing wrong with testing out your sex drive when you are young and unattached so long as you are taking proper safety measures. 

You did nothing wrong by experimenting. Your only wrong was choosing to lie about it and then letting it go this far. 

I do not know what to advise here. I just know that *I* would rather find out from my spouse personally than to hear about it through the grapevine. He would have a much better shot at my forgiveness and reconciliation through complete openness, honesty, and remorse. I also believe you would greatly benefit from the truth as well, as you seem to hold so much guilt over this.


----------



## ConanHub

JustTheWife said:


> Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it and i probably need this dose of reality.


Just stop this.

If you feel that way it is on you.

You are definitely ignoring many posters and focusing selectively to make this statement.


----------



## sokillme

Ynot said:


> However given some of the more recent threads where men have discovered their partners past and couldn't stomach the reality, due mainly to their own insecurities, I can see why the OP would be hesitant to speak the truth.


Sometimes it has nothing to do with insecurities it's about shared experience. This man thought that there shared experience was that sex was reserved for only each other. I think that should be easy to understand how her lying about that would be an issue. He wanted to have a sex partner who would be very unique, as was his right. She took it from him. It's no different then lying about anything else that was important in you courtship. 

I am SO tired of the sanctimonious shaming of people who think of sex more then just a coffee date. Just because someone doesn't think like you doesn't mean you get to put them down. People who do that are the real ones who are insecure. 

Really the only time when the insecurity idea makes sense is when the one person who is complaining has a lot of sex partners has lived exactly the same lifestyle and one person can't handle it. In that case, yes I can see the hypocrisy, that is NOT what is going on here. Wen one someone looks to find someone whose lifestyle matches, when they clearly state that and then are lied to about it, they have every right to be upset about it.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

JustTheWife said:


> Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and *basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it* and i probably need this dose of reality.


You are neither a wh*re nor a sl*t. You didn't cheat on your husband. You were young and single. You are only guilty of this lie, which is not nothing, but isn't a one-way ticket to Hell or divorce. You will sleep and live better though if you tell him, no matter how he reacts. If he loves you, and is a MAN, he will be willing to work it out with you. It would be a good idea to seek counselling with either your pastor or a marriage counsellor so he has a place to vent himself and seek affirmation of those feelings - and then guidance on moving forward and healing.


----------



## Andy1001

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


Stop putting yourself down.Just stop.
It’s nobody else’s business what you do in your private life except yours and to a certain extent your husbands.
The first thing you need to do is stop going to a church which has a congregation of judgmental hypocrites.
Let me tell you something about these “holy folk”, most of them judge others to make up for the **** life they have themselves.They aren’t happy so they condemn others for being happy,really Christian behavior isn’t it.
I don’t agree with you lying to your husband but I can understand why you did.But do not feel bad because you were not the chaste virgin he thought he was getting.
If you really feel you have to tell him then do so for your own reasons,not for anything else.
Edit: Sex isn’t a big deal unless you let it become one.If your faithful to your husband that’s what’s important.


----------



## RoseAglow

This is the funniest I have ever seen on TAM.

I mean, you basically gave her the choice to be an "honest *****" or a "lying *****".

Isn't there a Biblical verse about this? Something about removing something from one's own eye?

What I posted was completely fair to the men on TAM. As I indicated in my post, it's the men who really care about sexual purity who will lose it when they find out their wives were like the OP's. That's not all the TAM men.



ConanHub said:


> @RoseAglow
> 
> You should be fair to TAM men.
> 
> 
> There are some as you have described but a lot of us are even handed.
> 
> There are vitriolic men and women here and everything in between.
> 
> Not accurate to paint with your broad brush.
> 
> I like your post aside from that and I don't know how her husband will react.
> 
> I sincerely hope he loves her and understands her fear in initially lying about her sexual history.
> 
> Maybe OP could get involved with a counselor to help her?
> 
> Not one from her church. They sound a bit unhelpful to say the least.


----------



## Ynot

sokillme said:


> Sometimes it has nothing to do with insecurities it's about shared experience. This man thought that there shared experience was that sex was reserved for only each other. I think that should be easy to understand how her lying about that would be an issue. He wanted to have a sex partner who would be very unique, as was his right. She took it from him. It's no different then lying about anything else that was important in you courtship.
> 
> I am SO tired of the sanctimonious shaming of people who think of sex more then just a coffee date. Just because someone doesn't think like you doesn't mean you get to put them down. People who do that are the real ones who are insecure.
> 
> Really the only time when the insecurity idea makes sense is when the one person who is complaining has a lot of sex partners has lived exactly the same lifestyle and one person can't handle it. In that case, yes I can see the hypocrisy, that is NOT what is going on here. Wen one someone looks to find someone whose lifestyle matches, when they clearly state that and then are lied to about it, they have every right to be upset about it.


No "sanctimonious shaming" taking place here. In the two threads in question these two guys allowed their own insecurities to dominate their thoughts. One ended a 17 year marriage because he felt his otherwise totally faithful wife was dirty now, the other ditched the a woman he had crushed over on the basis of what some of his acquaintences said. 
My point was that I can understand why she would chose now to remain silent now about something she did then based on the examples I recently saw.
FTR, I do not look at sex like some coffee date. There is huge difference between having a healthy attitude about sex and recognizing we all have a past and trying to hold some one to virginal standards (which is really a sanctimonious attitude)


----------



## RoseAglow

JustTheWife said:


> Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it and i probably need this dose of reality.


 @JustTheWife, you do not deserve to be basically those words. You are neither of them. Your mistake was lying to him. You had the right to get intimate in prior relationships. It doesn't make you a ***** or a ****, it just makes you a human being. Don't let the "TAM choir" get you down, and know that the men who post this kind of junk make up just one group of men in the world. 

But also know that if your H thinks similarly to them, it might be a preview of what will be ahead if you do tell.


----------



## RoseAglow

Let me refer again to the splinter and the eye.

She heard those posters loud and clear.




ConanHub said:


> Just stop this.
> 
> If you feel that way it is on you.
> 
> You are definitely ignoring many posters and focusing selectively to make this statement.


----------



## Thor

JustTheWife said:


> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.


Your secret is already damaging your marriage.

Your lie is a betrayal, an infidelity.

And, your husband is going to hear about it someday, somehow. I overheard stuff other people were saying about my now ex-wife during our marriage that contradicted what she had told me. Pieces started coming together. Eventually your husband is going to know that at the least you were not a virgin.

Idk what you do right now. He has the right to know the truth of the situation. I guarantee you that, to him, it is a very big deal. You know intellectually that for him it is very meaningful that you two have only been with each other. Your view of sex and sexuality is quite different from his, and I wouldn't say that either one of you is right or wrong. You just have different belief systems about this. *When* he finds out the truth it is going to be devastating for him.

You are obligated to be respectful to him, which includes not perpetrating a major lie about something very deeply important to him. You are trying to rationalize that your past isn't that big of a deal, but you are doing so within your belief system which says it isn't a big deal. Many people have that same belief system. However, your husband has a very different belief system, so to him your past is indeed a very big deal.

From my own experience I can tell you that the betrayal of trust by hiding this information is a bigger problem than the facts of your past. For me it was an *infidelity*. He has the right to make informed choices about his life, and you intentionally stole that right. You lied to him so that he would make the decision you wanted him to make. You manipulated him into doing something he would not have done. Not only is your past different than what he would have chosen in a spouse, but your value system is different than what he would have chosen. You lied during those discussions about values, plus you lied about your past behaviors.

The woman he fell in love with was not real. You pretended to be somebody you weren't.

He is going to have all of those thoughts, and he's going to wonder who the hell are you? Who did he marry? What was ever real about you or the marriage? 

Now, you can tell him in the very near future, or you can wait for some uncertain future date for him to find out. Somebody is going to say something, and he will find out. It is going to be a serious crisis in the marriage. The longer you wait, the worse it is going to be. If it is a decade from now, he is going to feel that every single day of all those years were another day you lied to him. Every day is an opportunity to tell the truth, but when you keep the secret you are again lying to him.

I think you should see a good marriage counselor yourself with the goal of revealing this information to him in a safe environment. There are better ways and worse ways to word things, plus a counselor can be a good referee or guide through the conversation.

The other option is to leave the marriage without telling him of your past.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you so far for the input. Frazzled, those are great links and i've already read a lot of it and will do in more detail and think about it.
> 
> Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.
> 
> The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question. Maybe I should not have said anything and just said it was none of his business when we talked about that. But we were just friends and I made a quick decision to just lie. I didn't want him not to like me. I could have corrected it later but just kept it up.


Here is the truth, if your marriage is over just like that because of this lie (and yes it's a very big one) then it's not a good marriage anyway. I submit a marriage you have to be inauthentic to live in is a terrible one and a terrible way to live. As you get older it's going to eat away at you. Do you really want to be married to a man where if he knew your true story would have nothing to do with you right? 

In a way you have also cheated yourself as you can't be who you are but have to play a role. 

Granted this is a very big lie and he may not be able to get over THAT, even though he does love you. But if he loves you he will still be kind to you. If that is the case that is still better then he doesn't want to be with you because you are tainted or some other such nonsense. In that case he may not have cared as much if you had just been honest with him. 

Besides sex and shared experience and all that HE DESERVES TO KNOW A HIS REAL WIFE. That in my mind is the worst thing you have done. You have prevented him from having a wife who is real with him. But that is something you can change. That part can be fixed. Even if you don't make it. And you know what, YOU DESERVE TO BE IN A MARRIAGE WHERE YOU CAN BE REAL.

The point is I think you know that were you are is unsustainable which is why you are writing on here. 

Not sure you are a Christian or not it may just be that you go to church because that is what you always did. If you are though I would trust God's grace, not the church goers. There is always hope, people who are in much worse trouble then you are have gotten through it and healed. 

If you really don't believe, which is kind of hinted at by some of your posts then you should stop going. It makes no sense to go to church when you don't believe what is being said. 

I am not judging you for not believing but it seems to fit a pattern. Are there other things in your life that you just take the path of least resistance and don't tell the truth? This is a very hard way to live, besides that eventually they can lead to traps. They make you very vulnerable and also make you feel down on yourself. It's just not healthy. You MUST fix this. Please do yourself a favor and do so. So many people end up on these boards because they are afraid to face confrontation and lie. Then the lies get away from them. This is where you are now. Get some counseling. 

Bottom line, you NEED to start living your life authentically. What you are doing now is going to end up destroying you.


----------



## ConanHub

RoseAglow said:


> This is the funniest I have ever seen on TAM.
> 
> I mean, you basically gave her the choice to be an "honest *****" or a "lying *****".
> 
> Isn't there a Biblical verse about this? Something about removing something from one's own eye?
> 
> What I posted was completely fair to the men on TAM. As I indicated in my post, it's the men who really care about sexual purity who will lose it when they find out their wives were like the OP's. That's not all the TAM men.


Don't misunderstand me. I have made that statement many times over the years to indicate that the ugly truth is always better than a pretty lie.

Digging into that statement, you may realize that an honest person who thinks poorly of themselves is often far better than they themselves know and a dishonest person who thinks highly of themselves is often far worse.


----------



## sokillme

RoseAglow said:


> @JustTheWife, you do not deserve to be basically those words. You are neither of them. Your mistake was lying to him. You had the right to get intimate in prior relationships. It doesn't make you a ***** or a ****, it just makes you a human being. Don't let the "TAM choir" get you down, and know that the men who post this kind of junk make up just one group of men in the world.
> 
> But also know that if your H thinks similarly to them, it might be a preview of what will be ahead if you do tell.


The husband was not wrong to want to have his sexual relationship to be unique and with one person. Do you believe this? If not you are exactly the same as the "TAM choir".


----------



## ConanHub

RoseAglow said:


> Let me refer again to the splinter and the eye.
> 
> She heard those posters loud and clear.


She had to wade through a mountain of posts saying the opposite and so did you.

You are unnecessarily contentious, biased and unhelpful in that regard.

Did you miss my reference to her being pure white snow compared to me?

I guess you did. Doesn't say much for your observational abilities.

Many other men are agreeing with me about her only issue being her lies and not her past.

Your anger hardly seems justified.


----------



## RoseAglow

@ConanHub, I am not misunderstanding you.

Saying this: "An honest person who thinks poorly of themselves if often far better than they themselves know, and a dishonest person who thinks highly of themselves is often far worse"

is very different from "Honest ***** is better than a lying person" (or whatever the exact wording you used was in your earlier post."

If you want someone hear your message, I recommend you stick with the "honest person" instead of "honest *****." As you can see, your ***** words have already put the OP off. 




ConanHub said:


> Don't misunderstand me. I have made that statement many times over the years to indicate that the ugly truth is always better than a pretty lie.
> 
> Digging into that statement, you may realize that an honest person who thinks poorly of themselves is often far better than they themselves know and a dishonest person who thinks highly of themselves is often far worse.


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes.
> 
> Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.


Did it ever occur to you that maybe the real reason you don't fit into their world is because they are a bunch of self-righteous, judgemental, uppity, condescending A-holes?

I don't think your mistake here was blowing some dudes in the car. I myself happen to like BJs and would have paid you back 2:1. I am assuming that these guys were consenting to the sexual activities and that you were not some kind of predator or she-rapist who was forcing their penises into your vaginas against their will. 

And since you have not said anything about molesting any children, or robbing banks or swindling old ladies out of their social security checks or kicking puppies, I am going to assume you are basically a good person. 

What I see as your mistake is you tried to twist yourself into some kind of uptight, inhibited, sex-negative person so you could marry some guy that is uptight, inhibited and sex-negative and placate his judgemental, condescending and self-righteous family and church peers. That's your mistake and where you went off the rails. 

This is me playing jr shrink but I think you were brought up in a little over zealous, sex-negative environment and you thought that the "good guys" were sex-negative, puritanical church boyz that have a belief that sex is dirty and sinful and that female sexuality is something to be shamed and feared and suppressed at all cost. 

And so to get with that guy, you had to adopt another persona and portray yourself as something and someone you are not. 

It's not that you are bad and I assume that you are a good, decent person and fine upstanding citizen. You just did something that wasn't true to yourself or to him and now you are each yoked to a mismatched and incompatible person. 

It may not be that you are dirty and tainted, but rather that they are intolerant, self-righteous and judgemental. 

They have the right to their beliefs and your H has the right to unyoke himself to you and find someone as uptight and sex-negative as himself. 

But that doesn't not make you a bad person or unworthy of love, marriage and family. But in order for you have a healthy, happy and functional marriage and family, you have to be yourself and it has to be with something that is compatible with you.


----------



## RoseAglow

I never said her husband was wrong in wanting to marry a virgin. 

I told her that men who really care about that kind of thing tend to really lose it. I think you, yourself, told her that he might not be able to handle it and might even divorce her. Someone else has already suggested that she just divorce him. TAM Choir. 




sokillme said:


> The husband was not wrong to want to have his sexual relationship to be unique and with one person. Do you believe this? If not you are exactly the same as the "TAM choir".


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Did it ever occur to you that maybe the real reason you don't fit into their world is because they are a bunch of self-righteous, judgemental, uppity, condescending A-holes?
> 
> 
> .


I'm just quoting this again so you think about it twice.


----------



## chillymorn69

Lying in never good.

What if a husband lied and said he had a college degree and then after marring you found out he didn't actually finish his degree?

Or that he was nefer married before and then you find out he was.

Personally it wouldn't bother me how many partners she had to a point. 

If she had hundreds of partnerso then that might bother me but anything under what I consider reasonable would be fine.

Define reasonable: everybody draws the line somewhere.


----------



## RoseAglow

Again, my powers of observation are just fine.

Did you notice that the OP was hurt by the words being used to describe her?

It doesn't matter what YOU were. It matters what SHE is called. This is why women don't stick around TAM. 






ConanHub said:


> She had to wade through a mountain of posts saying the opposite and so did you.
> 
> You are unnecessarily contentious, biased and unhelpful in that regard.
> 
> Did you miss my reference to her being pure white snow compared to me?
> 
> I guess you did. Doesn't say much for your observational abilities.
> 
> Many other men are agreeing with me about her only issue being her lies and not her past.
> 
> Your anger hardly seems justified.


----------



## minimalME

JustTheWife said:


> Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it and i probably need this dose of reality.


You're just fine. 

I think the fundamental difference in my view and some of the others here is that I don't believe in transparency and full disclosure. I think it's just posturing, and I think it's the way we'd like relationships to be (healed from confession), but it's not the way we really live.

I think all people keep secrets and tell lies - big or small. Not that it's right, but it's real.

If others want to act like they have no secrets and they tell no lies - that's fine. I don't believe it. Not for a minute.

And if folks want to act like they're above your behavior and they would never make those kinds of choices, I don't buy that either.

We all struggle with something. We're often weak when we should ideally be strong.

I wish that we were as forgiving as we pretend to be, but we seem to get more satisfaction out of being self-righteous.


----------



## ConanHub

RoseAglow said:


> @ConanHub, I am not misunderstanding you.
> 
> Saying this: "An honest person who thinks poorly of themselves if often far better than they themselves know, and a dishonest person who thinks highly of themselves is often far worse"
> 
> is very different from "Honest ***** is better than a lying person" (or whatever the exact wording you used was in your earlier post."
> 
> If you want someone hear your message, I recommend you stick with the "honest person" instead of "honest *****." As you can see, your ***** words have already put the OP off.


You most certainly are misunderstanding me and I am beginning to be convinced it is intentionally done.

I have referred to myself as far dirtier than op. I give that statement as a general example and have never referred to OP as a wh0re.


----------



## uhtred

OP, you will find all sorts of responses. For some men it is devastating to find out that their wives had a past, for others it doesn't matter at all.

Personally, I cannot understand the men who care - I know that they do, but I don't get it at all. I would not care in the slightest what my partner had done in the past, unless it was so recent that STDs were an issue - in which case a test for both of us would clear that up.

In a lot of ways I would prefer a woman who had an active past because it would increase the probability that she was a passionate woman who enjoyed sex.


----------



## manfromlamancha

JustTheWife - I am truly sorry you find yourself in this predicament.

To be clear: the ONLY thing that you know your husband can accuse you of is lying. You have not cheated, stolen, murdered etc - you told him a lie about being a virgin and perhaps furthered that by carrying on discussions on morality and joining in in condemning people who were "promiscuous".

You can and should explain the "lying" bit but in the context of a larger, more important discussion which is: why would your being a virgin be important to him and does he think any less of you now, having known you for so many years and seen what a good person you are (assuming you have been a good person). Absolutely you should explain why you lied and what your fears were at the time and why you have kept it a secret so far. But again in the context of wanting a stronger and more fulfilling relationship with him and not so much apologising for being with others before him. You were both young back then but both have hopefully matured since then, so his thinking might have developed.

I agree with those who say that they are sad that you had to keep this a secret. And I get that you think he might leave if he found out now. But if he does, maybe he is not the right partner for you?

Sit him down and tell him. But make sure that you tell him why you are telling him. I have three daughters and all of them are strong women. They were brought up by my wife and I to never be afraid of who they are and never be ashamed. I would give them the same advice I am giving you if they ever found themselves in the same position.

I really wish you the best of luck.


----------



## ConanHub

RoseAglow said:


> Again, my powers of observation are just fine.
> 
> Did you notice that the OP was hurt by the words being used to describe her?
> 
> It doesn't matter what YOU were. It matters what SHE is called. This is why women don't stick around TAM.


Only bigoted women who are absolutely, intentionally blind to what is actually being said.

OP brought the term wh0re into the conversation first and I referred to her "friends" talking like that in quotations for a reason that has again seemed to escape your notice.

You are not being helpful but simply venting your spleen at TAM men.

Again, I do not deserve your pissing and neither do many other posters you are ignorantly attacking.

Maybe you could offer constructive advice to OP without attacking quite a few of us who don't really deserve it.

I can tell her feelings are hurt but I am encouraging her in a more positive direction.

Focusing only on negative aspects while ignoring positive ones will mess her up possibly more than lying about a sexual history.


----------



## SunCMars

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you so far for the input. Frazzled, those are great links and i've already read a lot of it and will do in more detail and think about it.
> 
> Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.
> 
> The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question. Maybe I should not have said anything and just said it was none of his business when we talked about that. But we were just friends and I made a quick decision to just lie. I didn't want him not to like me. I could have corrected it later but just kept it up.


And when he got you in bed and enjoyed what you had to offer..

He was a very happy man. Of this I am sure.

An experienced women feels no different, down there, then a less experienced one. Less the hymen.
Hymens get torn sometimes in other ways [I am told] , or were not much of an impediment. Dunno.

He never left your side, did he?
He never kicked you out of his bed because you were different down there?

Because you are not.

Have a great life....
Our lips are sealed.

Keep yours the same.

Amen.

Ah men, such a pain they are, they be. Especially those that love THEIR woman, oh, so much.


----------



## RoseAglow

Let me see if I can clear things up.

In an earlier post, you gave a general statement about preferring an honest ***** than a dishonest person. This was you advising the OP.

Because she is intelligent, she can read the implication that she would better off admitting it as an honest *****.

*She herself said that she felt she been called a ***** in this thread.*


I don't think that you are being intentionally obtuse on this. You have said that she is hearing the wrong message that you are trying to give her, which is that it is better to be honest than not.

I am trying to point to you that it is hard for anyone to hear a message after they feel they have been called names. Referring to women as "*****s" "****s" and so on is fairly common from some posters.

It does not matter what you said about yourself, later on, in comparison. 

I am not missing your message about it being better to be truthful; I don't even disagree with it and I said so in my first post. I am very grateful that I can be honest in my marriage. 

I just happen to have some free time today to TAM about, and I am pointing out that your, and other, name calling was an expected reaction as stated in my first post, and furthermore, just pointing out that she can probably expect the same from her husband if she tells. 




ConanHub said:


> You most certainly are misunderstanding me and I am beginning to be convinced it is intentionally done.
> 
> I have referred to myself as far dirtier than op. I give that statement as a general example and have never referred to OP as a wh0re.


----------



## sokillme

RoseAglow said:


> I never said her husband was wrong in wanting to marry a virgin.
> 
> I told her that men who really care about that kind of thing tend to really lose it. I think you, yourself, told her that he might not be able to handle it and might even divorce her. Someone else has already suggested that she just divorce him. TAM Choir.


It's the truth, sadly they may have never been compatible from the start. Unfortunately for OP her decision not to tell him has taken away the standard organic way they could have discovered that by dating. 

That's the thing with your advice, which seems to be no one has a right to judge anyone, it doesn't work in the real world. Everyone judges everyone, you are judging all the posters that you disagree with on this board. Which is why just being honest about your past is the best way to go. 

In my mind a person who has had a crazy sex life should be quick to discuss it, at the very least to avoid ending up in this situation. Yet people like you seem to be advocating to hide it. Why? Why would you want to be stuck with someone who wouldn't want to be with you if they know about it? Seems counter intuitive or just plain unwise. Besides that why should you hide something that was so big a part of your life? 

I see two reasons why you would hide this, 

1. You want a bigger pool of potential mates. Again this just means you don't want consequences for you actions. By the way consequences don't mean you did something wrong, it just means actions have consequences. 

2. You really deep down think you are ashamed of your past. That doesn't fit your premise very well.

None of this is good advice for OP.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question, would you want to date someone who voted for Trump? Would you be happy if he lied to you about it?


----------



## RoseAglow

ConanHub said:


> Are any of your sex partners in the same city as you?
> 
> You know husbands do talk about being happy and proud of their wives as often as others gripe about them.
> 
> What are the chances of him finding out from someone else?
> 
> Anyhow. I have seen this jazz song played out more times than I care to remember and every time lies are chosen the situation deteriorates.
> 
> Truth can be worked with and built on, lies destroy and can only have more lies built on them.
> 
> *I would rather have a talk with an honest wh0re over a dishonest virgin any day.*


I want TAM to be a place where women feel OK about posting.

These are your words above. You might not think that this is calling the OP a *****. I think it's awfully close.

OP, you are neither a honest or dishonest *****. You are currently a dishonest wife, in this one aspect (assuming there are not other areas where you are also being dishonest.)


----------



## Maxwedge 413

I think RosAglow and Conan need to get a room. Now where were we?..... Oh yeah! We should tie bricks to the OP and put her in the pond. If she drowns she can go to Heaven, and if she survives somehow we'll burn her as a witch. That's the way we used to do it in the "Good 'ol Days" when Christianity had a stronger control over people's lives in America.


----------



## RoseAglow

@sokillme, I agree that everything would have been better if she had been honest from the start. 

I don't have any real advice on whether she should or shouldn't tell her H. In my own marriage, I would have to be honest. But, I am not particularly religious and my H doesn't care about how many men I slept with in the past. I have never felt horribly judged by my H about who I am. 

What I have advised her is to think carefully, because her H is probably going to flip the **** right out when and if she tells him.


----------



## ConanHub

Ok. OP.

I did not ever refer to you as a "working girl" and it was never my intention that you take my metaphor to indicate that was what I was referring to you as.

My ideas are directed towards who we are today as opposed to who we use to be.

You are not any dirtier than anyone else and have chosen to be a wife. Good choice.

Lying to your man about your past, bad choice.


----------



## sokillme

Again it needs to be said. Her husband has done absolutely NOTHING wrong. Everyone has a right to have expectations in who they marry. They have it in all manor of things, education, appearance, political philosophy would be two examples. Why is sex life any different. It always seems to be sex and people who have had a lot of it in their past who have a problem with having expectations, but only on this one issue. It seem very disingenuous to me.

As it seems he made this plain to her. He is not insecure or whatever because he wanted his sex life with his mate to be unique and only between him and her. To do that usually takes sacrifice. I am sorry that this is harsh but those saying she didn't steal from him are wrong, she stole the potential to have that with his mate, something he obviously cared deeply about. People calling him such are not better then the Christians who call people who have a lot of sex *****s. That they can't see the hypocrisy is just sad.


----------



## oldshirt

RoseAglow said:


> @JustTheWife, if reading TAM has taught me anything, it is that men like your H who really care about sexual purity cannot handle learning their wives had- and lied- about their sexual past.
> 
> If your H were posting here and said that he had just learned that you had lied about your sexual past and that you were sexually experienced:
> 
> 1. You, as the wife would be called "*****" (as you can already see above), "a doorknob", "****", "bicycle" etc. Your H would be encouraged to see you as these things. [Edited to add: I didn't realize some of those words would get filtered out. Let's just say you would be viewed as an extremely promiscuous person, filthy and used.]
> 2. He would be encouraged to consider what else you may have lied about. He would probably be encouraged to go through your phone, your emails, to put a Voice Activated Recorder in your car.
> 3. He would probably be encouraged to polygraph you, and if you protest, file divorce papers on you.
> 
> In short, guys like these flip their ****, at least on TAM. This is one of the big blows to their male egos. It shakes their very foundations.
> 
> If you think I'm exaggerating, go do a search here. You'll see it play out in thread after thread after thread.
> 
> Of course, TAM is a self-selected audience. Men who find out and don't flip their **** probably aren't looking for marriage forums online. You know your H better than anyone, and you have to work out what you can live with yourself. Personally, I would not be able to live long-term in a relationship where I was hiding a secret. It's also important to me that I can be who I really am in my marriage- it's a safe haven for me. I don't want to always be looking over my shoulder, afraid that the truth will come out.
> 
> So I'm not posting to encourage you in one direction or the other. I'm posting to give you a head's up on what could happen if you do decide to tell all.



If her H wrote in here first and told the heartrending story of growing up in his faith and saving himself sexually for his wife on their wedding night and then living life together as they grow and explore in their sexuality together blah blah blah. 

And then he goes on to say that it was important to him that he found someone who shares his values and his beliefs and wanted to find someone that also saved her sexuality for her future husband blah blah blah. 

And then that he did in fact meet this special snowflake in church and they developed a platonic friendship first and got to know each and she told him tales of saving herself until marriage and that she wanted to have a virginal life until marriage and then lose their virginities together on their wedding night and live a life of marital sexuality and sharing that bond and experience with only them together --------

And then he finds out after a year or more of marriage that she in fact not only had had sex before him with a number of other men, but actually did embrace the casual sex lifestyle and (per her other forum posts in other threads) is now disenchanted and frustrated with their sexlife because he is so rigid and dispassionate in bed -

You are darn toot'n right I would be using some choice terms and language and you are absolutely correct that I would be most strenuously be urging him to try to find out what else she has been pulling and what else she has up her sleeve!!!

She has carried out an act of deliberate, premeditated, sustained and continuing fraud and dishonesty on him. She has taken on a whole other persona and lied to his face not only about how many people she has screwed (as far as I am concerned EVERYONE has done that) but she lied about her core beliefs and values and spiritual practices. 

Yes there may be some level of insecurity involved here, but who wouldn't be insecure when they found out they have been lied to and deceived and with such a great hoax perpetuated on them. 

This is not so much as "was-the-other-guy's-Johnson-bigger-than-mine?" but rather he married a women who does not really exist. He married a character in her own play that does not exist in his reality. 

Marriage is a legal contract. It is a legal status. All legal contracts have the assumption that each party is entering into it in good faith and that no falsehood or deceptions are taking place. And all legal contracts are dissolvable without prejudice if it was determined that fraud or intentional misrepresentation was committed at the time of entering. 

This was a clear and obvious case of deliberate lying and misrepresentation of her values, beliefs, morals and spiritual practices with the purpose of getting him to accept and marry her. 

He is fully, 100% in his legal, moral, ethical and spiritual right to terminate this marriage. I don't know if they are catholic or not but I am sure the Pope himself with bless this annulment. 

This was an act of fraud, misrepresentation and dishonesty and that part has nothing to do with him or anyone else being insecure over the size of their package.


----------



## uhtred

I think its a question of expectations. If he cares about her past, it is up to him to ask when they start dating, or is it up to her too tell?

In my world view, people's sexual pasts are private unless asked. So I would see it as up to him to say early in dating that he doesn't want to date a woman who has had an active sex life in the past. For myself, I'd assume any woman who didn't present herself as a virgin has had some sort of active sexual past, and if I cared about it, I would need to ask. 




sokillme said:


> Again it needs to be said. Her husband has done absolutely NOTHING wrong. Everyone has a right to have expectations in who they marry. They have it in all manor of things, education, appearance, political philosophy would be two examples. Why is sex life any different. It always seems to be sex and people who have had a lot of it in their past who have a problem with having expectations, but only on this one issue. It seem very disingenuous to me.
> 
> As it seems he made this plain to her. He is not insecure or whatever because he wanted his sex life with his mate to be unique and only between him and her. To do that usually takes sacrifice. I am sorry that this is harsh but those saying she didn't steal from him are wrong, she stole the potential to have that with his mate, something he obviously cared deeply about. People calling him such are not better then the Christians who call people who have a lot of sex *****s. That they can't see the hypocrisy is just sad.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Alright, let's sum it up -

*Sweet Hubby did nothing wrong.
*OP IS wrong, in maintaining this lie once they became serious. She should have told him once they became serious, since she knew his religious and "purity" convictions. 
RosaGlow doesn't like Lying Virgins, or Conan, or something.

OP, nobody here knows your husband's heart like you do. I feel you should tell him, and let him feel whatever he feels. And if he loves you truly, who you are Now and who you have been in his life, then he should work to forgive you and have a stronger, no-secrets life moving forward. I'm sure you love him, and he you. Good luck.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> Again it needs to be said. Her husband has done absolutely NOTHING wrong. Everyone has a right to have expectations in who they marry. They have it in all manor of things, education, appearance, political philosophy would be two examples. Why is sex life any different. It always seems to be sex and people who have had a lot of it in their past who have a problem with having expectations, but only on this one issue. It seem very disingenuous to me.
> 
> As it seems he made this plain to her. He is not insecure or whatever because he wanted his sex life with his mate to be unique and only between him and her. To do that usually takes sacrifice. I am sorry that this is harsh but those saying she didn't steal from him are wrong, she stole the potential to have that with his mate, something he obviously cared deeply about. People calling him such are not better then the Christians who call people who have a lot of sex *****s. That they can't see the hypocrisy is just sad.


Are people saying the husband is at fault here? I might have missed those posts.

I think most are in agreement that lying to him was a bad choice. The only real difference seems to be about whether to continue to lie or tell the truth.

Their is nothing wrong with OP or her husband.

She made a bad choice to lie which is impacting her and her marriage.


----------



## Thor

ConanHub said:


> Are people saying the husband is at fault here? I might have missed those posts.


What's the opposite of **** Shaming? Virgin Shaming? There is a certain choir here which shames men who want to marry a virgin. Maybe it's Christian Shaming.

Idk, but on this topic the threads always bring out a vocal group saying that a man has no right to know his w's history, and she should never reveal it. Furthermore, he is barbaric or mean or otherwise loathsome for even thinking a woman's past is relevant to him.


----------



## JustTheWife

RoseAglow said:


> Again, my powers of observation are just fine.
> 
> Did you notice that the OP was hurt by the words being used to describe her?
> 
> It doesn't matter what YOU were. It matters what SHE is called. This is why women don't stick around TAM.



It's ok. They are just being honest about how they feel about who I am and what I did. I'm a dirty liar so I don't have much argument. It's hard to argue that what i did is not disgusting.

I also on this thread had someone 3 times refer to me "blowing dudes in cars". the first time i shrugged it off. Then 2 more times hidden in other posts. Loud and clear. I get the message. Might as well just came out and called me a filthy little C sucker. But it's OK. Believe me. I can take it. Better it's said than think it and not say it.


----------



## oldshirt

uhtred said:


> I think its a question of expectations. If he cares about her past, it is up to him to ask when they start dating, or is it up to her too tell?
> 
> In my world view, people's sexual pasts are private unless asked. So I would see it as up to him to say early in dating that he doesn't want to date a woman who has had an active sex life in the past. For myself, I'd assume any woman who didn't present herself as a virgin has had some sort of active sexual past, and if I cared about it, I would need to ask.


I get that and my beliefs on that matter are very similar to yours. 

But read her posts - He did care about it, it was important to him, they did discuss it and she lied to his face about it. 

That is a whole lot different that a lot of these guys that write in here and knew that their wife had had a previous sex life and were accepting of that , but then later on they find out about something that just kind of trips some personal trigger or pet peeve of theirs. 

For some people and some cultures, saving yourself sexually for marriage and marrying another virgin are critical spiritual and doctrine practices. It's not just a preference or something they would rather have happen if they could pick and choose. 

For some people it is critical and a deal-breaker. She knew it was critical and a deal breaker for her H so she lied and misrepresented herself. 

That is fundamentally different than some guy who really didn't initially care that his wife had had previous partners but then one day found out one of them really did have a 10" schlong. 

Like I said in my post above, this really in not about male insecurity. It's about a misrepresentation of a fundamental religious and spiritual belief and practice for some people.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

I think Sharia Law would solve all of this nonsense. Maybe some female circumcision too. RoseAhoe, put your burka on and get back in the cave.







*Just kidding ladies - this whole thread has gotten ridiculous.


----------



## ConanHub

Thor said:


> What's the opposite of **** Shaming? Virgin Shaming? There is a certain choir here which shames men who want to marry a virgin. Maybe it's Christian Shaming.
> 
> Idk, but on this topic the threads always bring out a vocal group saying that a man has no right to know his w's history, and she should never reveal it. Furthermore, he is barbaric or mean or otherwise loathsome for even thinking a woman's past is relevant to him.


I have heard that as well but it must have missed it here.

Aside from @RoseAglow and I sparring a bit, I haven't seen a spirited back and forth along those lines.

I haven't seen a line of women saying he had no business or a line of men condemning OP.

Maybe a couple posters hinted at it but it hasn't come across as a big theme here.


----------



## ConanHub

JustTheWife said:


> It's ok. They are just being honest about how they feel about who I am and what I did. I'm a dirty liar so I don't have much argument. It's hard to argue that what i did is not disgusting.
> 
> I also on this thread had someone 3 times refer to me "blowing dudes in cars". the first time i shrugged it off. Then 2 more times hidden in other posts. Loud and clear. I get the message. Might as well just came out and called me a filthy little C sucker. But it's OK. Believe me. I can take it. Better it's said than think it and not say it.


 @oldshirt was unnecessarily crude.

Perhaps I was unintentionally with my metaphor and would appreciate it if you let me know you understand my meaning.

Do you understand that you are no worse than anyone because of your past?

You have one recognized fault that needs your attention.

That issue is your dishonesty with your man.

That is only between you, God and your husband.

I just don't want it getting in your way of being comfortable and having a great marriage with your mate.


----------



## JustTheWife

ConanHub said:


> I have heard that as well but it must have missed it here.
> 
> Aside from @RoseAglow and I sparring a bit, I haven't seen a spirited back and forth along those lines.
> 
> I haven't seen a line of women saying he had no business or a line of men condemning OP.
> 
> Maybe a couple posters hinted at it but it hasn't come across as a big theme here.


For what it's worth, I do believe in a good Christian life. I do believe in saving yourself until marriage. My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right. I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over. The more i did it the more disgusting i felt about myself. And part of me blamed religion for everything so I wanted to ruin that too.

Not looking for any sympathy.


----------



## Suspicious1

Do not tell him, I repeat do not say a word avout you not being a virgin.

I read a few post but I feel compelled to post my thoughts, i use to attend Christian church when younger, just a lad, and know the ego of these people.

To him it will be as you cheated.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Why do fundamental Christians and Muslims (strangely similar in their oppression of woman) care so much about marrying a virgin? Is it so she will only know you and your particular skills (or lack of) at lovemaking? So she won't know just what a terrible lover you are?


----------



## sokillme

RoseAglow said:


> @sokillme, I agree that everything would have been better if she had been honest from the start.
> 
> I don't have any real advice on whether she should or shouldn't tell her H. In my own marriage, I would have to be honest. But, I am not particularly religious and my H doesn't care about how many men I slept with in the past. I have never felt horribly judged by my H about who I am.
> 
> What I have advised her is to think carefully, because her H is probably going to flip the **** right out when and if she tells him.


Marriage at all cost is a prison. If he can't accept this about her they are both better off. These things have a tendency to come out in the long run, better to do it in a controlled environment (having a counselor present makes a lot of sense) than to have it blow up. If it blows up it will be much worse.

My bigger problem is this whole, men who care about their spouses past sex life are insecure statement that you and other posters make all the time. Are there men who are sure. But usually those men also have a lot of sex partners too, these are not men like me and are probably not like OP's husband. Let me explain.

The number of people I have had sex with I could count on my hand. I have never had sex with anyone I was not in love with. Not because I am insecure but because sex to me is a very intimate act and I could never do it with someone I was not emotional intimate with already. Now I get that it would have been physically pleasurable to me, but sex to me has never really been purely about pleasure. I see it as almost a spiritual act of bonding. I have always seen it as sacred. It is who I am, but don't think I didn't deal with the same desires and lust as everyone else. I can assure you that I did, it was a very hard thing to do. There are a lot of people who feel like me, usually women but also men. No one has a right to judge them for that. 

Because I knew that about myself I made it very plain to every women I dated. This ended up having the effect that some women who I had good chemistry with would not date me long term. Some very attractive women. Again if I was insecure I wouldn't have been able to stand that. You forget that the same stereotypes that work against women who have a lot of sex also work against men like me who do not. I got lots of funny looks and judgements for that. So be it. There is this idea that I am less virile because I didn't sow my wild oats so to speak. I know a lot of women and men felt that way about me. If anything I am a lot less insecure then lots of people because I was always true to myself even when frankly there were times I thought it sucked. I did it because I knew deep down if I married a women who felt like me and we both were true to who we were we would have a better marriage. 

As far as I know I did. Because of that this is a part of my marriage that has never been an issue. This is good for both of us. 

Here is my issue with posters who make the blanket statement that Men who care about their partners sex count are insecure or hypocrites or chauvinistic or whatever. It just as wrong a blanket statement as men who say all women who sleep around are *****s. It's just as judgmental. I have never called anyone a ***** that has had a high count. I think it's their life and there choice. I would like the same respect, and get tired of not being afforded such by people who then have the nerve to tell me not to judge, at the same time as they judge me. It's frankly just TOO MUCH. 

To use your words "splinter and the eye"? 

If OP's husband felt like me then I hope you can see what a huge betrayal this is. His virginity was an intricate part of his sexuality, he probably made many choices to be able to marry someone who was a virgin as well. At the very least he should have been given a choice. He was not. I know that this is probably painful for OP to read, but deep down she knows it. I don't believe on couching advice given because it is painful and difficult, in the long run that kind of advice is useless anyway. Better to deal with the reality of the situation then to ignore it.


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> It's ok. They are just being honest about how they feel about who I am and what I did. I'm a dirty liar so I don't have much argument. It's hard to argue that what i did is not disgusting.
> 
> I also on this thread had someone 3 times refer to me "blowing dudes in cars". the first time i shrugged it off. Then 2 more times hidden in other posts. Loud and clear. I get the message. Might as well just came out and called me a filthy little C sucker. But it's OK. Believe me. I can take it. Better it's said than think it and not say it.



I'm willing to bet the farm that I have done a lot more things in cars that you ever will. 

I often times talk bluntly and tell it like it is for a frame of reference. If you have never done that in a car, then I will accept that and will stand corrected on the topic of automotive sex. 

Otherwise I assume you and all the other 6 billion adults in the world have done it in a car in one fashion or another at some point because that's usually what people do until they are either out of their parent's house or can afford a motel room. 

Line up every person that has had some kind of sexual encounter in their life and 97.865% of them will have done something in a car at some point. 

Own it. Face up to it. Do a good job of it. enjoy it. And then drive on (no pun intended) 

I'm not calling you a dirty ***********. I happen to enjoy giving and receiving oral sex greatly and I am a very sex-positive person. No shame in my world. If you have taken that label for yourself, then you called yourself that. I didn't. That is on you. 

I'll say this again, the crime/sin/no-no that was committed here was not the premarital sex. I'm assuming it was all consensual and without force or duress. 

I don't judge you for having sex. I've had a lot of it myself and hope to have a lot more before I'm too old. 

What I see as your disservice here was in misrepresenting yourself and misrepresenting your true self and your true values and beliefs and spiritual practices to you H. 

The problems with that misrepresentations are now coming to fruition at this time.


----------



## sokillme

uhtred said:


> I think its a question of expectations. If he cares about her past, it is up to him to ask when they start dating, or is it up to her too tell?
> 
> In my world view, people's sexual pasts are private unless asked. So I would see it as up to him to say early in dating that he doesn't want to date a woman who has had an active sex life in the past. For myself, I'd assume any woman who didn't present herself as a virgin has had some sort of active sexual past, and if I cared about it, I would need to ask.


It think it is very clear he did. His virginity was an intricate part of his identity. Her lie even if it was by omission which it doesn't sound like it, just the act of lying shows she know such. There is no way to make what she did to him right.


----------



## ConanHub

JustTheWife said:


> For what it's worth, I do believe in a good Christian life. I do believe in saving yourself until marriage. My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right. I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over. The more i did it the more disgusting i felt about myself. And part of me blamed religion for everything so I wanted to ruin that too.
> 
> Not looking for any sympathy.


You sound somewhat similar to me in history.

I started out with biblical ideals, fell far away from them but came back to practicing them after meeting my wife.

Neither of us were virgins, however. She was twice divorced with a little boy and I was the town bad boy but we helped each other and got right with our God.

Keep posting. If something is bothering you, it helps to talk and it sounds like you don't have anyone in your immediate circle you can confide in.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> Are people saying the husband is at fault here? I might have missed those posts.
> 
> I think most are in agreement that lying to him was a bad choice. The only real difference seems to be about whether to continue to lie or tell the truth.
> 
> Their is nothing wrong with OP or her husband.
> 
> She made a bad choice to lie which is impacting her and her marriage.


People are saying that if he has a problem with it now he is insecure. Which is bull****. The inference is that he was insecure to even want such a thing. I see no difference then calling a person a ***** for having a lot of sex. 

Shaming is shaming.


----------



## oldshirt

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Why do fundamental Christians and Muslims (strangely similar in their oppression of woman) care so much about marrying a virgin? Is it so she will only know you and your particular skills (or lack of) at lovemaking? So she won't know just what a terrible lover you are?


The "why" doesn't really matter here. The fact remains that some do find it critically important. 

This discussion may be best for a separate thread.


----------



## Thor

JustTheWife said:


> I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over.


I bit my lip a few times and didn't bring up the question before. What was it that led to this?


----------



## ConanHub

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Why do fundamental Christians and Muslims (strangely similar in their oppression of woman) care so much about marrying a virgin? Is it so she will only know you and your particular skills (or lack of) at lovemaking? So she won't know just what a terrible lover you are?


I will speak to Christianity.

Both are supposed to be virgins.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

There is a whole clan of TAM members who feel masturbation and sexual imagery is a sin, akin to infideity. Ask him nonchalantly what kind of imagery turns him on in everyday life. The Lane Bryant catalog? TV commercials for BayWatch? A soda add on a bus near his work? Ah-Ha!! He's a Cheater!! How dare he?!? TAM wins again!


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> People are saying that if he has a problem with it now he is insecure. Which is bull****. The inference is that he was insecure to even want such a thing. I see no difference then calling a person a ***** for having a lot of sex.
> 
> Shaming is shaming.


Ok. I missed where someone referred to the husband as insecure and agree it isn't about insecurity but honesty and values.

With that said, we don't know the husband and I hope he could forgive his wife this and grow closer with her.

I know one man that was brought up religious and was a virgin before meeting his wife. They didn't wait but had sex often until marriage and she is his only partner while she was an ex party girl.

She was honest with him though and he has never had a complaint. She is a serious hotty! LOL!


----------



## EleGirl

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you so far for the input. Frazzled, those are great links and i've already read a lot of it and will do in more detail and think about it.
> 
> Conan, yes we talk about morality and sinning in church activities. It sometimes bothers me to hear our friends and other church group members talk about dirty sinners and "wh**es" or whatever. Sometimes I fantasize about standing up and telling everyone how I'm one of them. I would NEVER do that of course but it's like the whole lie is wanting to explode.
> 
> The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question. Maybe I should not have said anything and just said it was none of his business when we talked about that. But we were just friends and I made a quick decision to just lie. I didn't want him not to like me. I could have corrected it later but just kept it up.


While you might not want to stand up in these meetings and confess your previous promiscuity, you might want take what you have learned from your own life and try to teach the judgmental church goers about what Christianity really teaches.... forgiveness of sin.

I would bet that almost everyone of those people talking about dirty sinners and "wh**es" are guilty of sins that they are also keeping hush about. They need to be concerning themselves with their own sins and not so much those of others. It's God how judges, not humans.


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> For what it's worth, I do believe in a good Christian life. I do believe in saving yourself until marriage. My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right. I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over. The more i did it the more disgusting i felt about myself. And part of me blamed religion for everything so I wanted to ruin that too.
> 
> Not looking for any sympathy.


I actually do get what you are saying here and I will do my best to offer my best advice without being crude or sounding like an @$$. 

We all wrestle with our spirituality and beliefs vs our own desires and basic biological urges and yearnings. 

We all want love and acceptance. 

And yes we all desire sexuality and to give and receive pleasure and excitement and orgasms etc. 

People that were raised in very rigid and especially sex-negative environments often do have similar complexes of cognitive dissonance and internal turmoil to where they can betray their own belief systems and values and such. 

I do not think you are a bad person. I don't think anyone on this forum thinks you are a bad person. 

But I think you think you are and that paints everything that you say, do or hear in a dark light. 

As I said in my very first post, I think you need some very competent professional assistance and therapy. 

I don't mean that in a bad way or as a put down or anything. If you broke your arm, you would not hesitate to go to a doctor to get it set so it will heal and to be treated for the pain until it is healed. 

I don't see this as any different. I think your spirit has been injured. I think your psyche has been injured. And in very short order, your marriage will be injured. 

I think it is wise and necessary to seek professional treatment and therapy in all of those modalities. 

I think you need individual private counseling and therapy first until you have your own head straightened out and have a plan of where you want to go and what would be best for you. 

Then if you still wish to remain married to your current husband, then you will need marriage counseling to treat the marriage. 

For both the IC and the MC I strenuously urge a reputable, secular therapists trained in research-based, western science as opposed to any kind of religious-based counseling. All the Hail-Marys in the world are not going to resolve this. You need actual objective help and guidance. 

Now I do think that at some point once you have your own head straight and have your marital issues addressed, you will need some kind of spiritual reconciliation. 

Your core beliefs and your behaviors were way out of whack and you do need some kind of spiritual guidance to reconcile that dichotomy. 

I'm not sure your current church of membership is the place to do that however. 

I am the last person on the planet to advise anyone on religious matters, so I will just leave it as I do believe you need some serious spiritual guidance and reconciliation and hopefully someone else can point you in the right direction for that.


----------



## RoseAglow

JustTheWife said:


> It's ok. They are just being honest about how they feel about who I am and what I did. I'm a dirty liar so I don't have much argument. It's hard to argue that what i did is not disgusting.
> 
> I also on this thread had someone 3 times refer to me "blowing dudes in cars". the first time i shrugged it off. Then 2 more times hidden in other posts. Loud and clear. I get the message. Might as well just came out and called me a filthy little C sucker. But it's OK. Believe me. I can take it. Better it's said than think it and not say it.


If you did what you wanted to do back then, and you were single and both parties were agreeable, then I don't think what you did was disgusting. You were just teenagers/young adults. 

As for the naming, sadly that can be par for the course on TAM, which is why I wanted to call it out. 

You titled this thread "Lying about your sexual past- is it harmless?"

I think it's clear from the posters that for some men- specifically, the ones who care about sexual purity- it is NOT harmless. In fact, for some men, they value sexual purity before marriage so highly that finding out the truth will permanently affect how he views you, and is even something that can rightly cause divorce.

You've also heard from other men, from former swingers, bad-boys, and current Christians that (name calling aside) redemption is possible. Who you were once is not who you are forever. 

The cynical side of me wants to point out that I think peope in general more readily forgive "bad" or more "extreme" sexual behaviors from men than women, but overall I agree with them. We as grown adults are not the same people we were as teenagers and young adults. 

So what you thinking now? Are you leaning towards telling him? I think one poster in particular (maybe Thor?) wrote a great post about speaking with him but trying to put in a bigger context of why you did it, and what kind of great wife you've worked hard to be, regardless of your past.


----------



## ConanHub

That was pretty cool @oldshirt


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> That was pretty cool @oldshirt


I really do need to work harder on toning it down. 

You were right in calling me out earlier. 

I do understand that some times your behaviors can betray your beliefs and values. 

In this instance I do care about @JustTheWife and I really am on her side and hope things can work out for her, even if my own verbiage betrays that concern at times.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> For what it's worth, I do believe in a good Christian life. I do believe in saving yourself until marriage. My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right. I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over. The more i did it the more disgusting i felt about myself. And part of me blamed religion for everything so I wanted to ruin that too.
> 
> Not looking for any sympathy.


Then you I think you know you should tell him. Go to a Christian counselor first, tell him with them present. Trust that God can fix this, like I said the main tenant in Christianity is forgiveness. (I am talking about the lie here not the sex.) Even from a Christian point of view though sex before marriage is a sin, it is not a sin that you committed against your husband. And no sin is any worse then any other. The point of Christ is to help you overcome your sin. This is a good thing. It should give you hope and true Christians should reinforce that. Anyone who doesn't is wrong. 

Anyway where you did wrong to him OP was to lie to him. BUT remember forgiveness is pretty much the cornerstone of the philosophy. I think that actually gives you a much better chance. If you husband's faith is strong it may help him to forgive. But even if it means losing your marriage, you know that part of being a christian or just a good person is doing the right thing even when it causes you to have to go through pain. In the long run you will have a better life, though I am sure in the short term you will feel some pain. Those are consequences for lying. But an honest marriage is a better one. 

Besides all that some of the stuff you describe her like using sex as payment for self esteem really leaves you vulnerable. People who feel this way end up making bad choices. I would point out that it already has had profound consequences. This whole situation is a part of that. Please get help, your life will just be better for it. Living authentically is really the only way to live. Get help before it blows up. I think you know it's time to do this, I think you want to be healthy too. 

That is the thing, this is a good example. People think the rules in the bible are there to take away peoples fun, but the truth is they are there to help avoid these kinds of problems. The thing that is it's hard to see it in the short term and a lot of times understanding this only comes from experience. Over all it's not all rules and party crashing as some like to think.


----------



## uhtred

OP. In my opinion:

There is nothing wrong with your having an active sex life when you were young, unless it was something *you* didn't want - in which case you were the victim. 

You were wrong to tell him that you were a virgin. 

From where you are now, I don't see any benefit for anyone in telling him the truth. It is likely to greatly upset him, and then either end your marriage, or leave you forever trying to make up for past sins. The risk though is that someday he may find out and then its even worse.

Other than your early lie about being a virgin, you did nothing wrong. 

I wish no one cared about people's sexual past, but some people do. I'm not one of them. To me you did nothing wrong except lie.


----------



## sokillme

RoseAglow said:


> As for the naming, sadly that can be par for the course on TAM, which is why I wanted to call it out.
> 
> You titled this thread "Lying about your sexual past- is it harmless?"
> 
> I think it's clear from the posters that for some men- specifically, the ones who care about sexual purity- it is NOT harmless. In fact, for some men, they value sexual purity before marriage so highly that finding out the truth will permanently affect how he views you, and is even something that can rightly cause divorce.


So I get from this post that you are saying the only reason lying about your sexual past isn't harmless is because some men care. Does this post show it's been harmless to her? She says herself she didn't follow her own standard. Now she is racked with guilt every day and their marriage suffers. Again this seems disingenuous and frankly not very good advice.. 

If you notice your whole reply here is about men even though there are plenty of women who feel the same exact way as OP's husband. No offense but if is anyone on this thread has shown a strong bias it's you.


----------



## oldshirt

delete


----------



## EleGirl

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


Had I read this thread earlier, I would have deleted Oldshirt's post. It breaks forum rules of being respectful to other members. His post is disrespectful and is full of gratuitous cruelty and ****-shamming. I suppose that makes him feel better about himself. And that from a man who engages in swinging but intends to hide it via omission should he ever get involved with another woman... that's just another from of lying. I am leaving his ****-shamming posts on this thread only because you have already seen them and replied to them. 

Keep in mind that this is a public forum. That means that people will post in reply and say whatever they want. When it comes to his topic, a woman's prior sexual life, you will get replies that are all over the spectrum. Take the posts that make sense to you and ignore the rest. 

If you see any more posts that are attacking you, please use the report button at the bottom left of each post and explain why it bothers you. It will then send a report to all moderators and administrators and we can handle the offensive post. Just don't bother yourself replying to posts like that. You owe no one here anything except to post based on the forum rules.


----------



## Rhubarb

Speaking as someone who is completely non-religious, if you were my wife I really woudn't care if you had slept with a few, or even more than a few guys before me, as long as everything else was good. The main problem I see is that you lied about it. You could have just told him my previous romantic encounters are in my past and I don't want to go into it. Then he could have decided if he really cared that much. Maybe he woudn't have. However it sounds like you actively lied, which *IS* something that would upset me. For me it would probably be forgivable if again, everything else was going OK. However I can't speak for someone else. Telling him now is the right thing to do, if you want to make amends. As it stands, you kind of defrauded him. 

This is one reason I've never really considered becoming spiritual. I see the people around who are religious are typically less honest then me. They just talk up a holy storm, but when it comes to practicing what they preach, they choke. Prove me wrong. If your marriage is strong, I bet he'll forgive you.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> So I get from this post that you are saying the only reason lying about your sexual past isn't harmless is because some men care. Does this post show it's been harmless to her? She says herself she didn't follow her own standard. Now she is racked with guilt every day and their marriage suffers. Again this seems disingenuous and frankly not very good advice..
> 
> If you notice your whole reply here is about men even though there are plenty of women who feel the same exact way as OP's husband. No offense but if is anyone on this thread has shown a strong bias it's you.


From reading her other posts, I don't get that she thinks that at all.

She seems to be about honesty.

I do think she has a sore spot going on but she never said lying about sexual history was ever a good thing.

She seems to be trying to prepare OP for possible fallout and how her husband might react.

I have actually not seen her encourage dishonesty to the OP in this thread.

To be fair, there has been some terrible backlash towards women who hid a less than stellar past on TAM as well as IRL.

I despise manipulation but some women have been legitimately confused at the start of a good relationship and kept silent about their past because of fear.

Later, they have realized that mature and strong women can be honest with a potential mate.

Honesty wasn't a huge issue for me in the beginning of my relationship to Mrs. C but I had huge hurdles to overcome and she had to be very patient with me about them.

This seems to affect more women possibly more so in religious circles.

I do believe honesty is a must. I also believe a little understanding of the terrible pressures women endure growing into maturity should be taken into consideration.

People thought I was a god just out of high school because of the women that laid themselves on my alter.

Many of those same people looked with disdain at women who were far less promiscuous as me.

Men and women both held those views. Looking at me with some form of admiration while being disgusted with ladies who had a few partners.


----------



## RoseAglow

sokillme said:


> So I get from this post that you are saying the only reason lying about your sexual past isn't harmless is because some men care. Does this post show it's been harmless to her? She says herself she didn't follow her own standard. Now she is racked with guild every day and their marriage suffers. Again this seems disingenuous and frankly not very good advice..
> 
> If you notice your whole reply here is about men, there are plenty of women who feel the same exact way. No offense but if is anyone on this thread has shown a strong bias it's you.


There are men on this very thread who said they would not care if their wife lied about being a virgin, and actually outside of really extreme numbers, just don't care.

IRL, my own husband says I lied to him about whether, a good 15 years before my H and I got together, I slept with one of our old mutual friends. He says I told him I didn't sleep with him, but I don't ever recall a conversation like that. In fact, his belief that I lied comes from a later discussion where I told him I *had* slept with that particular guy. That guy was my first real boyfriend and first love, he's the guy I lost my virginity with. 

You know what? H really doesn't care. He uses that time to joke with me. Did I ever tell H otherwise? Man, I don't know. We drank a lot back then, I might have and don't recall it, but if I did, I am pretty sure I was trying to be sarcastic and it got lost in translation. We all hung out back then, in our HS and early college days. It was not a secret that my then-BF and I were sleeping together. I have no reason to lie and generally don't. H has never thrown a fit, called me a name, asked what else I was lying about, or threatened divorce over it.

I will point out that on TAM-world, I have seen maybe one or two threads started by a woman who was devastated to learn that her husband lied about being a virgin when they got married. I am not on TAM all the time so maybe I missed them from women. But threads started by males are in the normal rotation here at TAM. 

Once more, I don't agree with lying. She was wrong to lie and I agree that because she is a good person, it is hurting her. However, if she were with a guy more like my H, or some of the guys who post on TAM who care much less about this kind of thing, then she wouldn't be wracked with guilt. She also probably wouldn't be worried about telling him the truth. 

So just to be clear- it was wrong for her to lie. That is a problem. The other part of the problem is that her H is the kind of man who has put a HUGE value on having a virginal wife. The OP feels he will divorce her if she tells him the truth. If he were less rigid, she probably would have told him ages ago. So there are two sides to this. Please note I am NOT saying her H is wrong to have this value or to care, I am simply saying that he DOES care and it will very likely cause huge problems if she tells him.


----------



## Thor

The lie is a problem, but so is the fact it is about sex because the issue of sex is very important to him.

Indulge in a little what-if.

Imagine a woman named Alice is an avowed Vegan. Alice was raised Vegan and always strongly believed in Veganism. She knew to her core she wanted to marry a like minded man.

Along comes Thor, an avowed meatatarian. Thor used to hunt for food, and he even owned a steak and bbq restaurant. Then quite recently he decided for health reasons to try eating vegetarian. At a vegetarian meetup, Thor meets Alice. They hit it off.

During conversations, Alice makes it very clear she could only marry someone who'd been a lifelong Vegan. Thor says he agrees. He says he was raised Vegan and has never so much as tasted meat products.

Thor and Alice marry. Ten years into marriage, Alice finds out Thor used to hunt and used to serve up plates full of meat in his restaurant.

Oh, yes, the lies are a huge problem to Alice. But so is the subject matter of the lies, because Veganism is central to Alice's belief system. Who is this Thor she married? Not only did he lie to her and take away her ability to choose to marry someone with the same value system as her, he lied to her about something essential to the core of her value system.

It not only is the lie, which is huge, but the subject of the lie is deeply important in this instance.


----------



## oldshirt

EleGirl said:


> Had I read this thread earlier, I would have deleted Oldshirt's post. It breaks forum rules of being respectful to other members. His post is disrespectful and is full of gratuitous cruelty and ****-shamming. I suppose that makes him feel better about himself. And that from a man who engages in swinging but intends to hide it via omission should he ever get involved with another woman... that's just another from of lying. I am leaving his ****-shamming posts on this thread only because you have already seen them and replied to them.
> 
> Keep in mind that this is a public forum. That means that people will post in reply and say whatever they want. When it comes to his topic, a woman's prior sexual life, you will get replies that are all over the spectrum. Take the posts that make sense to you and ignore the rest.
> 
> If you see any more posts that are attacking you, please use the report button at the bottom left of each post and explain why it bothers you. It will then send a report to all moderators and administrators and we can handle the offensive post. Just don't bother yourself replying to posts like that. You owe no one here anything except to post based on the forum rules.



I will take that as a stern warning to tone it down or further disciplinary will taken against me. 

But I do ask that you read my posts in their entirety. While my verbiage may have been overly blunt, it was not intended to attack or shame the OP. 
I was stating the issues as I see them and offered my input as I saw it. 

I am on the OP's side here and I hope she can work things out and put all this badness behind her and live a great life. 

Starting from my first post of the thread, I have urged professional assistance. This is beyond the scope of untrained, unlicensed strangers on the internet. I think we can all agree on that. 

But I have rightfully been called out and warned. 

I offer my apologies to @JustTheWife and anyone else I may have offended. I will tone it down going forward.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Maxwedge 413 said:


> This is not a little white lie. A little white lie is small and harmless.
> *It WAS just a little white lie when she first told him, out of whatever shame she had over it. Back when they were just friends. But Not telling him the truth before they got engaged/married is when it became dangerous. That is what I was saying. And I didn't say she should keep lying. *
> 
> No, it was never a little white lie. It's a major lie that has gotten her into a marriage she has no right to and is eating her up.
> 
> ... If you were to die in a car accident today, unrepentant with this sin in your heart, where would you end up?
> *WOW now you're sending her to Hell?!? You're a great example of Christianity.*
> 
> I'm sending her to hell? Am I God to you? If so, you need to start worshiping me and I'll set up a paypal for you to send your tithe. And for the record, I am not a Christian or believer of any kind. I was raised in the church so I know the theology she is claiming to live under. Do you claim to be a Christian while advocating for a sinner to continue to sin?
> 
> JustTheWife, is there anyone in your husbands life that is truly safe for him to trust?
> *It sounds like they are a loving couple that take good care of each other. She just made a mistake early on in their courtship, and felt compelled to hide the truth because of people like you and your judgements. NOW, it has become a bigger issue, as time has passed. Have the shame and teachings of her community caused her to make mistakes and compounded the implications of those mistakes? Yes. But does she love and cherish her Husband, and her God? Yes.*
> 
> Does she love her husband and her God? No, she does not. She is behaving completely selfishly. Love is selfless.
> If she loved her husband she would be honest with him rather than forcing him to live an inauthentic life with her. And if she loved God she would end this sin and confess to receive his forgiveness.
> 
> *Is she going to Hell over this? Really don't think so. Does she have a very tough decision to make, with a duty to be truthful to her husband while trying not to break his heart? Sadly, Yes.*
> 
> Are you a Christian? If so, what does the bible say about knowingly continuing to sin and dying in that state? If you're not a Christian, who are you to judge? You'll note that I didn't claim she was going to hell, I asked her where her faith told her she would end up with this behavior.





She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's what he *believes* about you and it's not true, so why are you *SO* sure he's not lying like you are? I don't really know of any teenage boys who don't an erection when the damned wind blows, so it's kind of hard to believe that he was as pure as the driven snow until you got married. * Real* hard (unless he looks like Steve Buscemi - then I'd totally believe him).
> 
> So there you have it, She'sStillGotIt has judged him, and with no evidence whatsoever (aside from her own prejudice) has determined him to be a liar too.
> 
> Secondly, experience has taught me that being 100% honest about your past will bite you in the ass over and over and over and over and over and over until the day you die (unless you fake your own death just to make it stop, that is). And it's a hollow victory to be able to claim you were totally honest when all that honesty got you was continued punishment.
> 
> It ain't worth it.
> 
> Telling him at this point will serve no purpose whatsoever. None. He can't reach into the past and undo anything, nor can you. The only thing you'll accomplish at this point is making yourself feel better. That's all you're going to accomplish. And if your church is calling people who have premarital sex ho's and heathens, then I can only imagine their name for someone who dares to get a divorce.
> 
> Get right with God on your own terms and leave the past in the past.
> 
> You can't get right with God over a sin you're continuing to commit. If you're going to get right with God, you're going to have to stop the sin.
> 
> Or, wait until he's 70 and then tell him. It's not like he's going to divorce you at that age. Old men can barely make their own damn sandwiches much less take care of themselves all alone, so he's not going to divorce you because he depends on you too much.
> 
> This may be the most cold bloodedly selfish advice I've ever seen. You've stolen your husbands opportunity to have an authentic relationship so far, so to avoid any consequences for that you should steal his opportunity to live an authentic life until he's too old to do it? Really, is that the kind of person you are?


The sin here is the lie. Stop lying and take the consequences you have earned, and start living an authentic life.


----------



## oldshirt

*Responses in bold below*




RoseAglow said:


> There are men on this very thread who said they would not care if their wife lied about being a virgin, and actually outside of really extreme numbers, just don't care.
> 
> *with over a hundred posts in this thread already, I can't say that I haven't missed a few but I have not heard anyone say that they would not care if someone lied about virginity (assuming virginity was important to them). A number of men have said they didn't care much one way or another about their wife's previous sex life. But I haven't seen anyone that said they wouldn't care if they were actually lied to about it. Having an issue with the overt dishonesty has been pretty much the common theme. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once more, I don't agree with lying. She was wrong to lie and I agree that because she is a good person, it is hurting her. However, if she were with a guy more like my H, or some of the guys who post on TAM who care much less about this kind of thing, then she wouldn't be wracked with guilt. She also probably wouldn't be worried about telling him the truth.
> 
> The other part of the problem is that her H is the kind of man who has put a HUGE value on having a virginal wife. The OP feels he will divorce her if she tells him the truth. If he were less rigid, she probably would have told him ages ago.


*Maybe yes but maybe no. Whether you realize it or not, you are kind of assigning him some of the blame for her lies and misrepresentations. This is at minimum implying that it was his rigidity and strong belief system that lead to her lying. 

I get your point, but it's not really fair to assign him blame for her dishonesty.

Sure, if he was cool with casual sex and multiple sex partners, she may have been more open with him about her past. I get that. 

But people's beliefs and religious practices and even their rigidity in those beliefs and practices do give other people license to lie to them and misrepresent themselves to them. *


----------



## sokillme

Thor said:


> The lie is a problem, but so is the fact it is about sex because the issue of sex is very important to him.
> 
> Indulge in a little what-if.
> 
> Imagine a woman named Alice is an avowed Vegan. Alice was raised Vegan and always strongly believed in Veganism. She knew to her core she wanted to marry a like minded man.
> 
> Along comes Thor, an avowed meatatarian. Thor used to hunt for food, and he even owned a steak and bbq restaurant. Then quite recently he decided for health reasons to try eating vegetarian. At a vegetarian meetup, Thor meets Alice. They hit it off.
> 
> During conversations, Alice makes it very clear she could only marry someone who'd been a lifelong Vegan. Thor says he agrees. He says he was raised Vegan and has never so much as tasted meat products.
> 
> Thor and Alice marry. Ten years into marriage, Alice finds out Thor used to hunt and used to serve up plates full of meat in his restaurant.
> 
> Oh, yes, the lies are a huge problem to Alice. But so is the subject matter of the lies, because Veganism is central to Alice's belief system. Who is this Thor she married? Not only did he lie to her and take away her ability to choose to marry someone with the same value system as her, he lied to her about something essential to the core of her value system.
> 
> It not only is the lie, which is huge, but the subject of the lie is deeply important in this instance.


I will give you a better one which I bet will hit home more with the "how dare people make judgment" crowd. Say I am a "huuuge" Trump supporter (I'm not by the way I think the guy is a buffoon.), but lets say I am. I think he is the best president ever and love the way he sticks it to the "Libertards". Love my guns, wall, and lower taxes. Now I meet this really attractive women, she has a lot of things going for her and I really want to be with her mostly because she is hot. So I lie and say I am a Hillary supporter, I also never tell her I am pro-life :surprise: even though there are lots of discussions with her and her friends about abortion rights. I don't say anything. Then we end up getting married. I suspect the very same people who are so "how dare anyone make judgments, there are pressures on people not to tell the truth" on this thread would think I was the devil in those circumstances and would be pretty adamant about it. 

My experience is that anyone who takes the time to say "live and let live", really just mean "live like me or shut up". If you really want to live or let live you don't say anything at all, you just let live. Everyone has strong opinions about stuff. 

This is why all this outrage on both sides leaves me unimpressed. Everyone has a hill they would die on. No one is immune to having strong opinions, the people I have the biggest problem with are the ones who seem to take offense with those who have them. The only wrong on this whole thread was not being authentic. (Maybe the people who have a problem with others having strong opinions different from their own strong ones, maybe just a little hypocritical?) I really hope OP overcomes it, but the truth is, she is going to suffer because no matter if you believe the reasons are valid or not she made a very bad tactical error. One which is going to affect her life. I believe continuing with the same error is going to affect it worse though.


----------



## Cynthia

As a Christian, your life should be filled with love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The people you associate with who call themselves Christians should be overflowing with these qualities. It appears that you are in a church that doesn’t really have the love of Christ evident in their hearts if they are spending their time puffed up with pride over how great they are, rather than filled with thankfulness over the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their sins.
@ConanHub and @RoseAglow have both made some important points that may seem to contradict each other, but I don’t think they do. They are different ways of looking at the same coin.

If you want to have a truly loving and fulfilling marriage, you need to be able to be completely honest with each other and have each other’s backs, but if you tell your husband, who appears to be one of the people puffed up with pride over his own righteousness, he will likely reject you as you predict. But he needs to be able to do that, because your marriage is based on a lie and that never works. Satan is the father of lies. The way of Christ is through truth.

My recommendation is that you throw yourself on the mercy of God and seek a true relationship with him. Start reading your Bible and praying daily, again throwing yourself on the mercy of God daily and seeking his direction. Stop listening to people who are full of themselves and look to Jesus who is humble and loving. Ask the Holy Spirit to fill you daily and seek his fruit (listed above and found in Galatians chapter 5. I recommend you read the entire chapter and think about it for a while.)

After you have done this for some time and are growing in the Lord, seek God on how you should go about talking to your husband about your past and how to break it to him gently, so it will hurt him as little as possible. It’s going to hurt, no doubt about it, but it’s important for you to let the Lord lead you on how to tell him and work through it with him so that you can both grow from it rather than having it crush him. I would strongly consider working with a counselor who is skilled in working with people from legalistic religious backgrounds who is also a believer, but who understands redemption and grace. You really need to learn about redemption and grace as well. We are new creations in Christ and if you don’t think you are, then you are probably not really in Christ at all.

You have some serious issues to overcome, but through the grace and sanctification of Jesus and his work on the cross, you can move through this and hopefully your husband will be able to as well. Your marriage is built on the sand, rather than on the Rock. If you are going to ever feel free, you have to build a new foundation with your husband.


----------



## oldshirt

Thor said:


> The lie is a problem, but so is the fact it is about sex because the issue of sex is very important to him.
> 
> Indulge in a little what-if.
> 
> Imagine a woman named Alice is an avowed Vegan. Alice was raised Vegan and always strongly believed in Veganism. She knew to her core she wanted to marry a like minded man.
> 
> Along comes Thor, an avowed meatatarian. Thor used to hunt for food, and he even owned a steak and bbq restaurant. Then quite recently he decided for health reasons to try eating vegetarian. At a vegetarian meetup, Thor meets Alice. They hit it off.
> 
> During conversations, Alice makes it very clear she could only marry someone who'd been a lifelong Vegan. Thor says he agrees. He says he was raised Vegan and has never so much as tasted meat products.
> 
> Thor and Alice marry. Ten years into marriage, Alice finds out Thor used to hunt and used to serve up plates full of meat in his restaurant.
> 
> Oh, yes, the lies are a huge problem to Alice. But so is the subject matter of the lies, because Veganism is central to Alice's belief system. Who is this Thor she married? Not only did he lie to her and take away her ability to choose to marry someone with the same value system as her, he lied to her about something essential to the core of her value system.
> 
> It not only is the lie, which is huge, but the subject of the lie is deeply important in this instance.



I really really like this analogy and think it has a lot of merit. 

I am going to go forward this analogy and use it as to what I see is the real issue here and the challenge that must be met and decided. 

What I think the real issue here is, is whether Thor (ie the OP) still likes meat and still wants to have meat as a component of her regular diet or not. 

(I swear to God as my witness that no pun is intended here)

Let's extrapolate this further and say that Thor was brought up in a very demanding Vegan environment and was indoctrinated that Vegan is the "right way" and that meat eating is bad and that it is incumbent on him to marry a proper Vegan girl. 

Then lets say when he rebelled and went out into the carnivoristic world and developed a taste for meat and opened the BBQ etc a part of him dug it. However his conflict and guilt and early indoctrinations still lead him to believe that Vegan was the right path and that he should marry a proper Vegan girl and live a fully vegan lifestyle. 

So that brings us to his marriage with Alice and the current dilemma over the guilt and whether to come clean or not. 

*So here is what I am FINALLY getting at -* What I see as the real issue now is whether Thor truly embraces the vegan lifestyle and wants to live the rest of his days fully shunning meat forever. And whether he truly loves and wants to be with Alice. 

Or whether he would rather live an omnivorous lifestyle and be with someone who also embraces an omnivorous lifestyle and belief system???????

In other words, is Thor truly a repentant, born-again vegan who embraces the vegan lifestyle and is truly in love with Alice and wants to be with her forever and forever be dining on their current vegan diet (read her other posts in the other forums and you'll see that is a legit question) 

Or did he give up meat because he was raised to believe it was bad and he wanted to make his vegan friends and family and vegan diet counselors happy and so he found a very proper vegan girl in Alice and lied to her about his carnivoristic past to get in good with her??

*THAT* is the question that needs to be answered here. That is the million dollar question that must be determined before things can move forward. 

If Thor truly decided meat wasn't for him and made a choice to come back to the vegan world, that is one thing. 

But if he dug meat and only did it to try to ease the guilt and lessen the cognitive dissonance and conflict in himself, then there are bigger problems.


----------



## sokillme

CynthiaDe said:


> As a Christian, your life should be filled with love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The people you associate with who call themselves Christians should be overflowing with these qualities. It appears that you are in a church that doesn’t really have the love of Christ evident in their hearts if they are spending their time puffed up with pride over how great they are, rather than filled with thankfulness over the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their sins.
> 
> @ConanHub and @RoseAglow have both made some important points that may seem to contradict each other, but I don’t think they do. They are different ways of looking at the same coin.
> 
> If you want to have a truly loving and fulfilling marriage, you need to be able to be completely honest with each other and have each other’s backs, but if you tell your husband, who appears to be one of the people puffed up with pride over his own righteousness, he will likely reject you as you predict. But he needs to be able to do that, because your marriage is based on a lie and that never works. Satan is the father of lies. The way of Christ is through truth.
> 
> My recommendation is that you throw yourself on the mercy of God and seek a true relationship with him. Start reading your Bible and praying daily, again throwing yourself on the mercy of God daily and seeking his direction. Stop listening to people who are full of themselves and look to Jesus who is humble and loving. Ask the Holy Spirit to fill you daily and seek his fruit (listed above and found in Galatians chapter 5. I recommend you read the entire chapter and think about it for a while.)
> 
> After you have done this for some time and are growing in the Lord, seek God on how you should go about talking to your husband about your past and how to break it to him gently, so it will hurt him as little as possible. It’s going to hurt, no doubt about it, but it’s important for you to let the Lord lead you on how to tell him and work through it with him so that you can both grow from it rather than having it crush him. I would strongly consider working with a counselor who is skilled in working with people from legalistic religious backgrounds who is also a believer, but who understands redemption and grace. You really need to learn about redemption and grace as well. We are new creations in Christ and if you don’t think you are, then you are probably not really in Christ at all.
> 
> You have some serious issues to overcome, but through the grace and sanctification of Jesus and his work on the cross, you can move through this and hopefully your husband will be able to as well. Your marriage is built on the sand, rather than on the Rock. If you are going to ever feel free, you have to build a new foundation with your husband.


Very good post. @JustTheWife please take this one to heart more then any of the other ones. This is the best advice on here.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> If Thor truly decided meat wasn't for him and made a choice to come back to the vegan world, that is one thing.
> 
> But if he dug meat and only did it to try to ease the guilt and lessen the cognitive dissonance and conflict in himself, then there are bigger problems.


This is what I was getting at early in the thread when I was saying that they may be incompatible and not the right match for each other and that her lies and misrepresentations may have got her hooked up with the wrong person. 

I was not meaning that she was a bad person and I wasn't trying to shame her or judge her on her sexual past. 

It was that if she was not all-in with the vegan lifestyle and not all-in with the devout vegan practitioner, then it is a much bigger problem than her not being a virgin on her wedding night. 

Does she truly love the vegan and want to be with him and embrace the vegan lifestyle??????

Or does really want a more omnivorous lifestyle and be with someone that also embraces a more varied and omnivorous diet as well? 

That is what I see as the real issue here. And that is the challenge going forward. 

I think it will take professional guidance and therapy (secular, western, research-based therapy) to peel through all those layers and get to the root of those questions first and then determine whether she wants to remain in the marriage or not and if so, whether to disclose her past or not. 

I think she needs the individual, professional therapy and counseling (and a lot of it) first before she gets to whether to tell or not tell


----------



## Rhubarb

oldshirt said:


> If Thor truly decided meat wasn't for him and made a choice to come back to the vegan world, that is one thing.
> 
> But if he dug meat and only did it to try to ease the guilt and lessen the cognitive dissonance and conflict in himself, then there are bigger problems.


Actually I disagree. It doesn't really matter what Thor thinks. It matters what Vegan Girl thinks. Thor shouldn't get to decide what's important to Vegan Girl. Perhaps Vegan Girl is adamant that any guy who is with her has never eaten meat EVER, no matter how he feels about it now. Thor represented himself to Vegan Girl as such a person, and that was a lie. The only way to fix this is for him to tell Vegan Girl the truth and let her decide what she wants to do about it.


----------



## sokillme

Also I am sorry @JustTheWife that some of us have been harsh. Even me if I was. I think there is a difference in making a bad decision because you were scared then if you make it because you were selfish. It seems from your posts that you didn't really have the tools to deal with the place you got yourself into. Lets work to get you the tools to get yourself out of the situation and never into it again. 

May I ask why do YOU think it is that you as you say "Let guys use you"? What made you so insecure? Is there any sexual abuse in your past? I ask this because by your own admission your actions don't sound like they come from a sex positive place but from a place of toxic shame. 

Again I think most of us here want to help you, it's just a lot of us are crusty old people who are naturally harsh on the outside. Many people here have been burned very significantly so they tend to not show their softer side. Lots of people on here have been lied to so they know it hurts, also the fact that you kind of asked the question with the title, like "is it REALLY a big deal" triggered some fokes. I think you know it is, and that is why you posted. However please keep posting, this really is a good site for people hurting if you can withstand the hasing that tends to happen when you first get here.

Also ignore the on going debate. Debates on threads are part of the frustration and in my mind charm of TAM. Most of us here have strong opinions. Too strong at times.


----------



## oldshirt

Rhubarb said:


> Actually I disagree. It doesn't really matter what Thor thinks. It matters what Vegan Girl thinks. Thor shouldn't get to decide what's important to Vegan Girl. Perhaps Vegan Girl is adamant that any guy who is with her has never eaten meat EVER, no matter how he feels about it now. Thor represented himself to Vegan Girl as such a person, and that was a lie. The only way to fix this is for him to tell Vegan Girl the truth and let her decide what she wants to do about it.


I'm having trouble keeping the vegans and the OP straight so let me go back to her and her H. 

I get your point. 

But Justthewife is the one that wrote in here looking for perspective, insight and advice. 

My advice to her is to seek professional guidance and counsel before doing anything definitive. 

She has her own demons and her own issues and problems to work out first before dumping anything in his lap. 

If she lets this genie out of the bottle too soon, there will be no getting it back in and things may blow up to the point that everyone is permanently damaged. 

Perhaps this does not need to be disclosed. If she decides with professional guidance that this is not the right union for her, then she may not need to disclose her past and hurt him further or tarnish her name in his family any more than possible. 

And if it is decided that she should, then it can be carried out under professional guidance and in a manner that isn't any more devastating than it needs to be. 

At that point he is a grown man and can make his own decisions on what would be the best course of action for him. 

He is not the one writing to us. she is. And in my unprofessional, untrained and unlicensed opinion, she should seek individual therapy and counseling before making any definitive moves.


----------



## sokillme

Two books I found that may give you a start to answer some of your questions, maybe not these but ones that are about the same stuff, you pick the ones that you think look good. I think one of your issues is the "why" you couldn't say no when it sounds like you wanted to. And "why" you couldn't tell the truth when you know you should have.

https://www.amazon.com/What-Women-Fear-Walking-Transforms/dp/0805464298

https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=pd_sbs_14_12?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0310351804&pd_rd_r=WHB6K2DQY54YEWVR8835&pd_rd_w=ZLfcb&pd_rd_wg=Fq0sU&psc=1&refRID=WHB6K2DQY54YEWVR8835


----------



## Nucking Futs

CynthiaDe said:


> As a Christian, your life should be filled with love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The people you associate with who call themselves Christians should be overflowing with these qualities. It appears that you are in a church that doesn’t really have the love of Christ evident in their hearts if they are spending their time puffed up with pride over how great they are, rather than filled with thankfulness over the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their sins.
> 
> @ConanHub and @RoseAglow have both made some important points that may seem to contradict each other, but I don’t think they do. They are different ways of looking at the same coin.
> 
> If you want to have a truly loving and fulfilling marriage, you need to be able to be completely honest with each other and have each other’s backs, but if you tell your husband, who appears to be one of the people puffed up with pride over his own righteousness, he will likely reject you as you predict. But he needs to be able to do that, because your marriage is based on a lie and that never works. Satan is the father of lies. The way of Christ is through truth.
> 
> My recommendation is that you throw yourself on the mercy of God and seek a true relationship with him. Start reading your Bible and praying daily, again throwing yourself on the mercy of God daily and seeking his direction. Stop listening to people who are full of themselves and look to Jesus who is humble and loving. Ask the Holy Spirit to fill you daily and seek his fruit (listed above and found in Galatians chapter 5. I recommend you read the entire chapter and think about it for a while.)
> 
> After you have done this for some time and are growing in the Lord, seek God on how you should go about talking to your husband about your past and how to break it to him gently, so it will hurt him as little as possible. It’s going to hurt, no doubt about it, but it’s important for you to let the Lord lead you on how to tell him and work through it with him so that you can both grow from it rather than having it crush him. I would strongly consider working with a counselor who is skilled in working with people from legalistic religious backgrounds who is also a believer, but who understands redemption and grace. You really need to learn about redemption and grace as well. We are new creations in Christ and if you don’t think you are, then you are probably not really in Christ at all.
> 
> You have some serious issues to overcome, but through the grace and sanctification of Jesus and his work on the cross, you can move through this and hopefully your husband will be able to as well. Your marriage is built on the sand, rather than on the Rock. If you are going to ever feel free, you have to build a new foundation with your husband.


See this is what I'm trying to say, just with less assholiness. >


----------



## chillymorn69

Now I'm craving steak and salad and then kinky sex after.


----------



## Thor

oldshirt said:


> This is what I was getting at early in the thread when I was saying that they may be incompatible and not the right match for each other and that her lies and misrepresentations may have got her hooked up with the wrong person.
> 
> I was not meaning that she was a bad person and I wasn't trying to shame her or judge her on her sexual past.


That's why I used the Vegan example, and turned it around to the man being the liar. People get all worked up over other peoples' value systems around sex.

In my case, my now ex-W was not a match for me. Had I known the full truth while dating, I would not have stayed with her. It turns out that her sexual history and her sex abuse history were accurate predictors of her future beliefs and behaviors. She would have been happier married to a better match for her. In a real way she did not do herself a favor in the long run with the deception.

Just as important is the mindset that deception is acceptable. This ultimately led to the downfall of my marriage. She believed what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me, but it did in many ways. 

I believe that the truth becomes a problem for the person keeping the secret, which JustTheWife is already experiencing. The truth also has a way of eventually becoming known to the deceived.

JustTheWife is in a difficult position, but The Truth Shall Set You Free.


----------



## sokillme

Thor said:


> That's why I used the Vegan example, and turned it around to the man being the liar. People get all worked up over other peoples' value systems around sex.
> 
> In my case, my now ex-W was not a match for me. Had I known the full truth while dating, I would not have stayed with her. It turns out that her sexual history and her sex abuse history were accurate predictors of her future beliefs and behaviors. She would have been happier married to a better match for her. In a real way she did not do herself a favor in the long run with the deception.
> 
> Just as important is the mindset that deception is acceptable. This ultimately led to the downfall of my marriage. She believed what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me, but it did in many ways.
> 
> I believe that the truth becomes a problem for the person keeping the secret, which JustTheWife is already experiencing. The truth also has a way of eventually becoming known to the deceived.
> 
> JustTheWife is in a difficult position, but The Truth Shall Set You Free.


Yes the wisdom being deception hurts the one telling the lies as much as the one hearing them.


----------



## oldshirt

EleGirl said:


> And that from a man who engages in swinging but intends to hide it via omission should he ever get involved with another woman... that's just another from of lying. .


I want to clarify this to keep it in context. 

It is public record and open knowledge that I have been married 22 years and have two teenagers. 

There for it will be presumed that I had a marital sex life. 

My wife and have been in the swinging lifestyle for a good number of years. That is/was a part of our marital sexlife and there for privileged information between my wife and I. What goes on in the marital bed is private between the couple and is no one else's business even if consenting 3rd parties were involved. 

Should I ever reenter the single's market again, what took place in private involving the marital bed will remain private. 

It will presumed that I am not a virgin and had marital sex during 22 years and 2 kids of marriage. That is all anyone else would ever need to know. 

Now to be fair, if I was seeing someone steadily and one day she said that her openly swinging friend Jessica knew me from the local swinger's club, I would have an issue with Jessical divulging my private business but I probably would not lie about it and deny it. I would likely assert that my wife and I had private business within our marriage and she could infer whatever she wanted with the info from Jessica and do what she thought was best for her in regards to our relationship. 

But other than that, I don't see where there would ever be a situation where it would be germane to the discussion to divulge it up front. 

If I was getting to know someone and they had a huge problem with swingers or the lifestyle of swinging, I would probably not be match for that person even if I had no interest in persuing the swinging lifestyle in the future. At that point it would probably be best to just part ways amicably rather than getting into it. Either way, there still would not be a point of discussing what took place in a married couple's bedroom. 

My point to all of this is someone's prior sex life is their business and their business alone. 

People have a right to prefer to date/marry virgins. They have the right to ask if someone is a virgin or not in the fact finding stage of getting to know one another. 

People have the right to keep their private lives private. But actively lying and carrying out an intentional deception and misrepresentation for the purpose of getting with someone that would otherwise not have them is completely different.


----------



## Wolf1974

I am a born again non-Christian so the god aspect of this doesn’t bother me. This really comes down to your husband. I get the impression you feel like you duped him and maybe he will feel the same way. In my opinion this type of stuff always comes out in the end. Now maybe you confess to him and he breathes of sigh of relief and says “me too”! Meaning he also had a past he hid from you. Maybe he will be hurt and you can work through that and maybe not. At least you will be working with the truth out there. As someone who was hurt by deception I can tell you the lying about it hurt far worse than the act my x partner did.

So no I don’t think thier is anything harmless about lying about something like this.


----------



## Satya

I am admittedly late to this post but feel that your H deserved to know the truth from the start. His understanding of what he was getting when he married you was false.

I'm not having a dig at you or your choices in the past, but you lied to secure him. That is incredibly unfair to him... And its sad that he has been unaware for years.

JMO.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> I want to clarify this to keep it in context.
> 
> It is public record and open knowledge that I have been married 22 years and have two teenagers.
> 
> There for it will be presumed that I had a marital sex life.
> 
> My wife and have been in the swinging lifestyle for a good number of years. That is/was a part of our marital sexlife and there for privileged information between my wife and I. What goes on in the marital bed is private between the couple and is no one else's business even if consenting 3rd parties were involved.
> 
> Should I ever reenter the single's market again, what took place in private involving the marital bed will remain private.
> 
> It will presumed that I am not a virgin and had marital sex during 22 years and 2 kids of marriage. That is all anyone else would ever need to know.
> 
> Now to be fair, if I was seeing someone steadily and one day she said that her openly swinging friend Jessica knew me from the local swinger's club, I would have an issue with Jessical divulging my private business but I probably would not lie about it and deny it. I would likely assert that my wife and I had private business within our marriage and she could infer whatever she wanted with the info from Jessica and do what she thought was best for her in regards to our relationship.
> 
> But other than that, I don't see where there would ever be a situation where it would be germane to the discussion to divulge it up front.
> 
> If I was getting to know someone and they had a huge problem with swingers or the lifestyle of swinging, I would probably not be match for that person even if I had no interest in persuing the swinging lifestyle in the future. At that point it would probably be best to just part ways amicably rather than getting into it. Either way, there still would not be a point of discussing what took place in a married couple's bedroom.
> 
> My point to all of this is someone's prior sex life is their business and their business alone.
> 
> People have a right to prefer to date/marry virgins. They have the right to ask if someone is a virgin or not in the fact finding stage of getting to know one another.
> 
> People have the right to keep their private lives private. But actively lying and carrying out an intentional deception and misrepresentation for the purpose of getting with someone that would otherwise not have them is completely different.


Why would you not be up front about it with a potential mate?


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> Why would you not be up front about it with a potential mate?


Why would I?

There is no reason for any person to discuss their previous marital sex life details with a date or post-divorce relationship. 

If you were divorced/widowed, would you feel any need to be upfront if you did anal with your wife if you were seeing someone? Would you give them a complete list of what positions and techniques and activities that you did any bed? Would there be any legitimate need for someone you were dating to know if you sucked your ex wife's toes or not? Would they have any legitimate need to know if you used toys or vibrators in the marital bed?


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> Why would I?
> 
> There is no reason for any person to discuss their previous marital sex life details with a date or post-divorce relationship.
> 
> If you were divorced/widowed, would you feel any need to be upfront if you did anal with your wife if you were seeing someone? Would you give them a complete list of what positions and techniques and activities that you did any bed? Would there be any legitimate need for someone you were dating to know if you sucked your ex wife's toes or not? Would they have any legitimate need to know if you used toys or vibrators in the marital bed?


Certainly you are not saying sexual positions is he same as swinging? I mean they call it a lifestyle for a reason. In many cases I suspect people know that lots of others would balk if told (that would be the reason to tell them, to give them the chance to say that is a bridge too far, but you know that don't you). Obviously not telling gives the swinger more options for potential mates. I really don't see much of a difference then what OP did. By the way I could care less that you were a swinger or whatever. I wouldn't date one though. 

To your reasoning, I would have no problem talking about any of this stuff if I was dating with someone else, I would be quite open about it. I talked about stuff I liked sexually with my wife that I did with my previous girlfriend. I mean I wasn't like, this girl did this. But I did say I liked this when I did it. She did the same. 

I would always advise being open about this stuff is just a better strategy anyway. Might as well get it out up front as to not waste time. Plus it sets the whole tone of he relationship going forward.


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> Certainly you are not saying sexual positions is he same as swinging? I mean they call it a lifestyle for a reason. In many cases I suspect people know that lots of others would balk if told (that would be the reason to tell them, to give them the chance to say that is a bridge too far, but you know that don't you). Obviously not telling gives the swinger more options for potential mates. I really don't see much of a difference then what OP did. By the way I could care less that you were a swinger or whatever. I wouldn't date one though.
> 
> To your reasoning, I would have no problem talking about any of this stuff if I was dating with someone else, I would be quite open about it. I talked about stuff I liked sexually with my wife that I did with my previous girlfriend. I mean I wasn't like, this girl did this. But I did say I liked this when I did it. She did the same.
> 
> I would always advise being open about this stuff is just a better strategy anyway. Might as well get it out up front as to not waste time. Plus it sets the whole tone of he relationship going forward.


If you want to discuss your marital sex life with subsequent suitors, I guess that is your prerogative. 

I however shall not. 

I see no point or benefit for anyone. 

I don't think anyone else has any right to know what goes on/went on in our marital bed. There is no beneficial or useful information to be gathered from that. 

And there is also the issue of the former spouse's privacy. In the case of divorce I imagine people aren't going to lose too much sleep over respecting a former spouse's privacy, but I do think that everyone has the right to keep their private matters private and no one else has any right or legitimate need to know what goes on in a couple's bedroom.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> If you want to discuss your marital sex life with subsequent suitors, I guess that is your prerogative.
> 
> I however shall not.
> 
> I see no point or benefit for anyone.
> 
> I don't think anyone else has any right to know what goes on/went on in our marital bed. There is no beneficial or useful information to be gathered from that.
> 
> And there is also the issue of the former spouse's privacy. In the case of divorce I imagine people aren't going to lose too much sleep over respecting a former spouse's privacy, but I do think that everyone has the right to keep their private matters private and no one else has any right or legitimate need to know what goes on in a couple's bedroom.


I always find it interesting how people who are swingers, poly and all of the other so called alternative lifestyles are so big on telling us how we are just not as progressive and open they are. Yet when it comes to dating suddenly it's nobody's business.


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> I always find it interesting how people who are swingers, poly and all of the other so called alternative lifestyles are so big on telling us how we are just not as progressive and open they are. Yet when it comes to dating suddenly it's nobody's business.




so a traditional, monogamous couple's sex life *is* other people's business?????????

whether one is traditional and monogamous or alternative makes no difference. Everyone has a right to their own privacy and no one is entitled to someone else's prior sex life. 

And I've never said a word about progressiveness.


----------



## MattMatt

You have prayed for forgiveness about this?


----------



## Diana7

I cant think why anyone would lie to their potential spouse about something so important. I would never lie to a man I was to marry about this and I wouldn't expect him to either. I believe in honestly and openness in marriage. OK we don't need to know the exact blow by blow details, but certainly how many sexual partners, were they ever unfaithful, do they think that adultery is ok, do they watch porn, have they ever had sex with more than one person at a time, etc etc are all important things to know before you commit to marriage.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> so a traditional, monogamous couple's sex life *is* other people's business?????????
> 
> whether one is traditional and monogamous or alternative makes no difference. Everyone has a right to their own privacy and no one is entitled to someone else's prior sex life.
> 
> And I've never said a word about progressiveness.


They do have a right to know if they are thinking of making a commitment to you for life.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> They do have a right to know if they are thinking of making a commitment to you for life.



deleted and combined with response below.


----------



## oldshirt

Let ask you a few questions and make a couple points to your statements below.



Diana7 said:


> I cant think why anyone would lie to their potential spouse about something so important.
> 
> *why is it a lie if something as personal and private as one's sexuality is kept private? Honest question, I'm not trying to be arguementative. I really want to know why you think it is a lie.*
> 
> OK we don't need to know the exact blow by blow details,
> 
> *I am glad we can agree on that point. (sincere, not sarcasm)
> 
> But where do blow by blow details end, and the info that you deem important begin. *
> 
> but certainly how many sexual partners,
> 
> *I get why people often think this way and I do think there is a fundamental difference between someone that has had one or two partners vs someone that has had hundreds. ......But I am not able to explain why.
> I think if someone has had hundreds, the chances are they are probably not big on monogamy with someone who has strong moral, religious or personal beliefs on monogamy and exclusive relationships in the first place so that is probably a non sequitur anyway. But do you think you are gathering any useful or pertinent information if you are dealing with the average Joe or Jane adult on the street that has had maybe a few relationships and maybe a hook up or two during their lives? Is there a realistic difference in someone who has been with 2 vs 4?
> 
> And if the concern is STDs, everyone is perfectly in their right to request STD testing prior to having sex.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> were they ever unfaithful
> 
> *I'll give you a little leeway on this one. I do think that is legitimate information as it is an indicator of character and the ability to adhere to the agreed upon boundaries of a relationship. If there is a way to reliably obtain this information, I think it is prudent to do so. the problem is cheaters are often lyers and simply asking them may or may not produce an accurate answer. *
> 
> 
> , do they think that adultery is ok,
> 
> *Noone is going to say that adultery is OK. Everyone is going to say they are against it. - even if they have done it. *
> 
> do they watch porn,
> 
> *this is going to be similar to adultery in that you are not going to get a straight answer. *
> 
> have they ever had sex with more than one person at a time,
> 
> *If your intent is to not have sex with more than one person and you would not want to do that, then does it truly matter if the other person did at some point or not?? If you aren't wanting to go there, then don't go there and make your intentions of monogamy clear. Whether they had a 3some or moresome at some point in the past is not really pertinent if you won't going forward. If your intentions of monogamy are clear, then they have the choice on whether to continue the relationship or not. And if they do want to pursue 3somes or what not, they can state that as a future goal or hope and at that point you have the right to decide if you want to continue the relationship or not. whether they have actually done it or not in the past is not useful information if both have agreed on the intent of a future monogamous relationship (and I guess it's not really relevant information if both agreed to nonmonogamous relationship either) *
> 
> 
> etc etc are all important things to know before you commit to marriage.
> 
> *Is it actually important to know everything someone has done?
> 
> Or is it important to establish what YOUR intentions and your boundaries are going forward and what their intentions and boundaries are going forward??
> 
> Now I do get your point(s) and yes it would be nice if we could all have some kind of chrystal ball and know everything about everyone and have that chrystal ball tell us if someone is the perfect match for us or not.
> 
> And I do believe that someone's past behavior is a better indicator of future behavior than relying on chrystal balls which do not exist, as well as relying completely on what someone says.
> 
> But my question is where is the line between someone's personal privacy and a potential partner's need to know? And how much do we really need to know about someone's sexual past that is relevant and germane to a relationship going forward? *


----------



## Wolfman1968

I was going to post something, but when I got to CynthiaDe's post, anything I could say became irrelevant. 

I would second her post.


----------



## uhtred

It is because too few people are able to separate what they desire in a mate from what is "morally acceptable" in a mate. They view someone who has had a varied sex life as "immoral", as opposed to simply being someone they don't want to date.

I think that if someones sexual past is important to you, you need to ask. If you do, then they are free to answer or refuse to answer. I think lying is not a good plan.

BTW if someone asks me about my sexual past or orientation, my response is to refuse to answer. If they want to know how I will behave in the future, then I would answer. 




Diana7 said:


> I cant think why anyone would lie to their potential spouse about something so important. I would never lie to a man I was to marry about this and I wouldn't expect him to either. I believe in honestly and openness in marriage. OK we don't need to know the exact blow by blow details, but certainly how many sexual partners, were they ever unfaithful, do they think that adultery is ok, do they watch porn, have they ever had sex with more than one person at a time, etc etc are all important things to know before you commit to marriage.


----------



## sokillme

uhtred said:


> It is because too few people are able to separate what they desire in a mate from what is "morally acceptable" in a mate. They view someone who has had a varied sex life as "immoral", as opposed to simply being someone they don't want to date.


Right, so if you have a problem with people who thinks like this yet it make all the sense in the world to hide this fact from them when you are on a date. Why so you can date them again? I thought you didn't like people like that. 

See right here is my problem. Are you proud of who you are and your lifestyle or not? You guys all say you are but you never seem to be open about it, you first instinct is always to keep it hidden. 

Like I said in my other post this seems to be a common theme, alternate lifestyle, the poster is like - "My lifestyle is great how dare anyone judge me, by the way when I am dating someone I am not telling them ****." At least that is how you come off to me. Most people like to be open with their potential mates because that is kind of the point of dating. More often then not though alternative lifestyle people tell you up front that they are not going to be. Me an a lot of others have kind of an issue with dating people who hide a big part of who they are. 

See it's not the sex that bothers me it's that you are so secretive about it. It makes the whole thing seem shady. I personally think it's because you know it will lower your potential pool of mates. It's obvious to me at least you care more about that then"acceptance". The lifestyle is great but not enough not to keep it hidden. 

It reminds me of the poly folks. Why is it they never tell the people they are dating about that until they and their partners have established a whole life together. After that it's, by the way I'm poly. Then the poor Monogamous person is stuck with a monumental choice, accept a lifestyle that would never want, or give up years of investment. It's the same deal here. 

I suspect this is one of the reasons people have an issue with it, everyone in it is doing there best to keep it and themselves a secret.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Let ask you a few questions and make a couple points to your statements below.


I will try and answer. 

There are people who don't think adultery is wrong such as those who have so called 'open marriages'. 

if the man has had threesomes or similar yes I would absolutely want to know because we wouldn't be on the same page sexually. If he has cheated the same. If he looks at porn and thinks its ok the same. All no no's for me. 

With some men yes you would get a truthful answer to whether they watch porn or their past sex lives. 

if a man was secretive about his past sex life then he isn't for me. I am a very honest person, I would be happy to talk about my past and would expect any man I married to as well. If I am going to marry a man I don't want secrets, especially about something as important as sex.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> It is because too few people are able to separate what they desire in a mate from what is "morally acceptable" in a mate. They view someone who has had a varied sex life as "immoral", as opposed to simply being someone they don't want to date.
> 
> I think that if someones sexual past is important to you, you need to ask. If you do, then they are free to answer or refuse to answer. I think lying is not a good plan.
> 
> BTW if someone asks me about my sexual past or orientation, my response is to refuse to answer. If they want to know how I will behave in the future, then I would answer.


You are free to refuse to answer, just as I am free to expect honestly and transparency in a man who I am going to marry. 
To me what I desire in a mate and what is morally acceptable to me are the same. A man who thinks its ok to sleep around, have threesomes, cheat on partners and watch loads of porn isn't for me. I see sex as very important and special between 2 people who love each other, preferably in marriage. If they see it as something casual and ok to do with many people then that shows he isn't for me. 

I see it as similar to a man who hasn't told me he has been married before. Or a man who lies about what his job is. Or that he has a secret child somewhere. Or that he has been in jail. Starting marriage with secrets is a disaster. How can anyone make an informed decision as to whether to marry without knowing these very important things about the partner? 

IF you dont think your sex life is a big deal then why hide it? Why refuse to answer?


----------



## Rhubarb

oldshirt said:


> I don't think anyone else has any right to know what goes on/went on in our marital bed. There is no beneficial or useful information to be gathered from that.


I half agree with this. But at the same time if you are asked a direct question by a potential partner you have no right to lie or actively misrepresent your past. You can either say it's my personal business, or you can tell them the truth. I think that's the main problem in this case. If they had never actually talked about it, I would say that she isn't obligated to tell him now and in fact probably shouldn't, however that doesn't seem to be the case here.


----------



## BobSimmons

ConanHub said:


> While I would generally agree with some ideas you have posted, this situation is different.
> 
> She lied to manipulate and obtain this relationship. If she was honest and contrite, she might have won him over anyway but she based their foundation on a lie that will continue to undermine their marriage.
> 
> Church people love sharing testimonials and their story will come up over the years, requiring her to actively continue to lie. It is bad enough for a relationship to continue to lie by omission but this is even worse.
> 
> I encourage her to humbly come clean with him.


Jesus.. I thought I was reading a post from another universe, glad you chimed in with your thoughts.

To get things straight this was not *A* lie. This is misdirection and manipulation and using this guy's religious beliefs against him in order as Conan said to obtain this relationship.

We talk about women (and quite rightly to) having the RIGHT to consent. Her husband's religious beliefs are part of him, a corner stone of his life and how he lives it and what he wanted in a partner. 

Yes her sex life is her business, but to say she had no sex life and that their first time was "special" when it wasn't (as in her first time) is taking away his right and choice to make a decision on whom his first and now life partner would be.

The OP knows it's not harmless because she hasn't come clean and probably never will.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I will try and answer.
> 
> There are people who don't think adultery is wrong such as those who have so called 'open marriages'.
> 
> if the man has had threesomes or similar yes I would absolutely want to know because we wouldn't be on the same page sexually. If he has cheated the same. If he looks at porn and thinks its ok the same. All no no's for me.
> 
> With some men yes you would get a truthful answer to whether they watch porn or their past sex lives.
> 
> if a man was secretive about his past sex life then he isn't for me. I am a very honest person, I would be happy to talk about my past and would expect any man I married to as well. If I am going to marry a man I don't want secrets, especially about something as important as sex.




I'm going to make some concessions. 

My point in my first post to this thread when I said that I would not discuss specific details of my prior sex life and that I am a very dedicated believer that one's sex life is a personal and private thing that everyone has a right to keep private. I think I have beaten that point to death here ;-)

But I do need to concede a few things. 

I do get your point and understand where you are coming from and I do not think you are necessarily 'wrong' about what you are saying. (except I do not think a consenting open marriage is adultery but we may have to agree to disagree on that)

While I strongly believe that everyone has the right to their privacy, I do concede that finding out about some of their past practices can have merit --- especially if it is a lot different that what they are saying. 

So if someone is telling you one thing, but you find out what they've actually been doing is 180 degrees different - that's an issue. 

It's the contradiction that is the concern. And actions always speak louder than words. 

In the case of this thread, the OP deliberately with intent of deception, portrayed herself in a manner that was completely different than her actual practice. 

I think we can all agree that was wrong on many levels. 

Should her H somehow find out about this whether she comes clean or he hears about it through the grapevine, I think he has just cause to terminate the marriage. He may or he may not, that is his prerogative. 

I have been accused of $lu+ shaming on this thread. However I have no issue with her sex life and I stand by her right to her sexuality and her right to keep her personal matters private. But she outright lied to his face on many levels about things that were critical to him.


----------



## uhtred

We have to be careful about the "you" here.

For *me* I consider my sex life private from anyone who is not interested in having sex with me. If they are, then I consider my past private. They may act on that any way that they wish.

In general though there can be broad negative social reactions to people in response to their private sexual activities. For women it can be very bad including serious harassment by men who think that because she is [promiscuous], she should have sex with them. 

So a woman who admits to an active sex life, camming, etc may not only be turned down by a prospective date but may face future harassment if the information gets out. 




sokillme said:


> Right, so if you have a problem with people who thinks like this yet it make all the sense in the world to hide this fact from them when you are on a date. Why so you can date them again? I thought you didn't like people like that.
> 
> See right here is my problem. Are you proud of who you are and your lifestyle or not? You guys all say you are but you never seem to be open about it, you first instinct is always to keep it hidden.
> 
> Like I said in my other post this seems to be a common theme, alternate lifestyle, the poster is like - "My lifestyle is great how dare anyone judge me, by the way when I am dating someone I am not telling them ****." At least that is how you come off to me. Most people like to be open with their potential mates because that is kind of the point of dating. More often then not though alternative lifestyle people tell you up front that they are not going to be. Me an a lot of others have kind of an issue with dating people who hide a big part of who they are.
> 
> See it's not the sex that bothers me it's that you are so secretive about it. It makes the whole thing seem shady. I personally think it's because you know it will lower your potential pool of mates. It's obvious to me at least you care more about that then"acceptance". The lifestyle is great but not enough not to keep it hidden.
> 
> It reminds me of the poly folks. Why is it they never tell the people they are dating about that until they and their partners have established a whole life together. After that it's, by the way I'm poly. Then the poor Monogamous person is stuck with a monumental choice, accept a lifestyle that would never want, or give up years of investment. It's the same deal here.
> 
> I suspect this is one of the reasons people have an issue with it, everyone in it is doing there best to keep it and themselves a secret.


----------



## uhtred

Do you care only for personal relationships or would it also affect your hiring decisions?

I think people with unusual sexual pasts fear harassment outside of personal relationships 




Diana7 said:


> You are free to refuse to answer, just as I am free to expect honestly and transparency in a man who I am going to marry.
> To me what I desire in a mate and what is morally acceptable to me are the same. A man who thinks its ok to sleep around, have threesomes, cheat on partners and watch loads of porn isn't for me. I see sex as very important and special between 2 people who love each other, preferably in marriage. If they see it as something casual and ok to do with many people then that shows he isn't for me.
> 
> I see it as similar to a man who hasn't told me he has been married before. Or a man who lies about what his job is. Or that he has a secret child somewhere. Or that he has been in jail. Starting marriage with secrets is a disaster. How can anyone make an informed decision as to whether to marry without knowing these very important things about the partner?
> 
> IF you dont think your sex life is a big deal then why hide it? Why refuse to answer?


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> Right, so if you have a problem with people who thinks like this yet it make all the sense in the world to hide this fact from them when you are on a date. Why so you can date them again? I thought you didn't like people like that.
> 
> See right here is my problem. Are you proud of who you are and your lifestyle or not? You guys all say you are but you never seem to be open about it, you first instinct is always to keep it hidden.
> 
> Like I said in my other post this seems to be a common theme, alternate lifestyle, the poster is like - "My lifestyle is great how dare anyone judge me, by the way when I am dating someone I am not telling them ****." At least that is how you come off to me. Most people like to be open with their potential mates because that is kind of the point of dating. More often then not though alternative lifestyle people tell you up front that they are not going to be. Me an a lot of others have kind of an issue with dating people who hide a big part of who they are.
> 
> See it's not the sex that bothers me it's that you are so secretive about it. It makes the whole thing seem shady. I personally think it's because you know it will lower your potential pool of mates. It's obvious to me at least you care more about that then"acceptance". The lifestyle is great but not enough not to keep it hidden.
> 
> It reminds me of the poly folks. Why is it they never tell the people they are dating about that until they and their partners have established a whole life together. After that it's, by the way I'm poly. Then the poor Monogamous person is stuck with a monumental choice, accept a lifestyle that would never want, or give up years of investment. It's the same deal here.
> 
> I suspect this is one of the reasons people have an issue with it, everyone in it is doing there best to keep it and themselves a secret.




I'll tell you exactly why people with nontraditional sexualities are not as open and upfront as you want them to be - it's because some have been set on fire. 

Some have been beaten to a pulp and chained to a fence post to die. 

Many have lost their jobs, been kicked out their churches and disowned by their families and had their friends shun them. 

As @uhtred pointed out, if a wife in swinging lifestyle comes out every guy at work and every guy in the neighborhood and every guy at Wal Mart is going to ask her for a quickie or a hummer in the broom closet. 

If I as a man in the swinger community comes out, every person I know is going to think I am going to try to get with their wives or worse yet believe that I am a threat to their kids. If I say so much as telling a female coworker that she looks nice that day, I will get sent to Human Resources for sensitivity training or get disciplined with sexual harassment. 

You have people like Diana where one drunken 3some in college is grounds for not dating someone because that person would not be right for her. Now of course everyone has the right to choose who they become involved with, but once you realize that one incident of nontraditional sexual activity will get you immediately labeled as a bad person or a threat or someone to be avoided, you quickly learn the importance of privacy and discretion. 

Trust me, I would love to be more open and let my guard down, but I can't afford to. 

I can't afford to potentially lose my job. I can't afford to every guy I know trying to get with my wife. I can't afford to have my friends and coworkers and neighbors thinking I am a threat to their wives and children. I can't afford to have my children shunned by their friends and have their friend's parents refuse to let them come to our house or hang out with my kids. 

This forum is the only place I am able to be out and discuss these things openly. If you ran into me IRL you wouldn't think that I ever even kissed a girl that wasn't my wife and that is how I intend to keep it. 

If that bothers you that I and people like me don't allow you to view what goes on in our bedroom, that is too bad. But until you and everyone else can guarantee me that some of the things I have done in the past sexually will not put my employment and my family and my standing in the community at risk, I will keep my private matters to myself and I will defend other people's right to their privacy as well.


----------



## Thor

There's a difference between publicly coming out to everyone in your office vs being truthful with someone who seems like a potential lifetime mate.

You might worry about that drunken college 3-some disqualifying someone, but doesn't the person on the other side of that have the right to make a fully informed decision? What if, for them, even that old event is beyond their limits?

Past performance is indeed a good indicator of future events. The nearer in time the past events happened, the more likely they indicate who that person really is today.

Were I to date a woman who happily participated in swinging for many years in her marriage, and she had divorced (or been widowed) within the past decade, I would presume she would still have the same value system regarding sex and marriage. If that were a problem for me, I would choose to end the relationship.

But I will tell you the biggest thing I learned with my xw is that the mentality that it is ok to withhold information from your future spouse does indeed predict future dishonest behavior. If you can hide something which you know is important to them before getting married, you will continue to be dishonest during the marriage.


----------



## oldshirt

Thor said:


> There's a difference between publicly coming out to everyone in your office vs being truthful with someone who seems like a potential lifetime mate.
> 
> You might worry about that drunken college 3-some disqualifying someone, but doesn't the person on the other side of that have the right to make a fully informed decision? What if, for them, even that old event is beyond their limits?
> 
> Past performance is indeed a good indicator of future events. The nearer in time the past events happened, the more likely they indicate who that person really is today.
> 
> Were I to date a woman who happily participated in swinging for many years in her marriage, and she had divorced (or been widowed) within the past decade, I would presume she would still have the same value system regarding sex and marriage. If that were a problem for me, I would choose to end the relationship.
> 
> But I will tell you the biggest thing I learned with my xw is that the mentality that it is ok to withhold information from your future spouse does indeed predict future dishonest behavior. If you can hide something which you know is important to them before getting married, you will continue to be dishonest during the marriage.


And thus we go 'round and 'round. 

I don't necessarily disagree with you and admit it is above my paygrade to know where that line is to be drawn. We all have our own comfort zones and we will all have to rely on our own intuitions and instincts if we think someone is being deceptive and intentionally hiding something vs simply maintaining their own privacy. 

I will state that it is not an accurate presumption to assume that someone who has been in swinging or had some 3somes or whatever in the past that that automatically means that they will want to do that going forward. 

Some may want to take that up again of course, but it is erroneous to assume that will be the case. 

I myself am basically a retired swinger and am no longer active in that lifestyle. 

If I were to get divorced or widowed and dating again, I honestly do not know if I would try to pursue that life again or not. That was dynamic between my wife and I and it worked for us that that time. 

If I was with someone different, I may or may not have any interest in it again. 

You really do hit the 'reset' button any time you begin a new relationship.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Do you care only for personal relationships or would it also affect your hiring decisions?
> 
> I think people with unusual sexual pasts fear harassment outside of personal relationships


People are free to make their own choices in life, and its not likely I would ever know about their past sex lives unless I was a very close friend or family member.


----------



## Thor

oldshirt said:


> And thus we go 'round and 'round.
> 
> I don't necessarily disagree with you and admit it is above my paygrade to know where that line is to be drawn. We all have our own comfort zones and we will all have to rely on our own intuitions and instincts if we think someone is being deceptive and intentionally hiding something vs simply maintaining their own privacy.
> 
> I will state that it is not an accurate presumption to assume that someone who has been in swinging or had some 3somes or whatever in the past that that automatically means that they will want to do that going forward.


Yup, threads on this topic always do this.

I agree it is a continuum where we have decide where to draw the line. For me it comes down really to the issue of honesty. Each of us has free agency, meaning in this context we have the right to make our own informed decisions. Nobody has the right to take that away from us, whether it be for their own selfish reasons or whether they think they are sparing us emotional distress.

While you may not ever desire to swing again, it doesn't mean that a woman you date would want to be with someone who participated. For her, she might see the value system or philosophy of relationships being incompatible. Everybody has their own lines in the sand and are entitled to it.

So I believe a person has the obligation within a serious relationship (to be contrasted with FWB or the earliest days of a new relationship), to answer questions honestly. This can include refusing to answer. I also believe a person has the obligation to reveal information they know is likely to impact the other person (e.g. sterility, criminal history, etc), and to reveal information in areas they know the other person finds important.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I'm going to make some concessions.
> 
> My point in my first post to this thread when I said that I would not discuss specific details of my prior sex life and that I am a very dedicated believer that one's sex life is a personal and private thing that everyone has a right to keep private. I think I have beaten that point to death here ;-)
> 
> But I do need to concede a few things.
> 
> I do get your point and understand where you are coming from and I do not think you are necessarily 'wrong' about what you are saying. (except I do not think a consenting open marriage is adultery but we may have to agree to disagree on that)
> 
> While I strongly believe that everyone has the right to their privacy, I do concede that finding out about some of their past practices can have merit --- especially if it is a lot different that what they are saying.
> 
> So if someone is telling you one thing, but you find out what they've actually been doing is 180 degrees different - that's an issue.
> 
> It's the contradiction that is the concern. And actions always speak louder than words.
> 
> In the case of this thread, the OP deliberately with intent of deception, portrayed herself in a manner that was completely different than her actual practice.
> 
> I think we can all agree that was wrong on many levels.
> 
> Should her H somehow find out about this whether she comes clean or he hears about it through the grapevine, I think he has just cause to terminate the marriage. He may or he may not, that is his prerogative.
> 
> I have been accused of $lu+ shaming on this thread. However I have no issue with her sex life and I stand by her right to her sexuality and her right to keep her personal matters private. But she outright lied to his face on many levels about things that were critical to him.


She was free to live as she liked, but as you say she wasn't free to deceive her husband in this way. I know a lady who married a man who lied about using porn. Like me it was a no no for her and she found out not long after that he was watching it and had been for many years. She couldn't trust him after that as he had married her under false pretences. They are now divorced. 

Adultery is when a married person has sex with someone they aren't married to, so it is adultery even if they all consent.


----------



## Diana7

If someone has been involved in swinging or threesomes in the past, I agree that they may not want to in the future, but it would show me that their viewsand beliefs on marriage and sex were the opposite of mine. I do believe its important that we marry someone who we are compatible with and on the same page about the important things such as sex, morals, faith, money, children etc etc .


----------



## TX-SC

This marriage is based on a lie. That's a serious problem.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

uhtred said:


> We have to be careful about the "you" here.
> 
> For *me* I consider my sex life private from anyone who is not interested in having sex with me. If they are, then I consider my past private. They may act on that any way that they wish.
> 
> In general though there can be broad negative social reactions to people in response to their private sexual activities. For women it can be very bad including serious harassment by men who think that because she is [promiscuous], she should have sex with them.
> 
> So a woman who admits to an active sex life, camming, etc may not only be turned down by a prospective date but may face future harassment if the information gets out.


And here in lies the fundamental difference between you and me. I would want a potential mate to know everything about me. Even the mistakes I have made or controversial things about me. First of all because It's just a better mating strategy. But also because it's who I am. I am an open book. I like people who are open as well. I would never choose a lifestyle that forced me to hide such a large part of myself such as my sexuality for whatever reason. I am not saying tell people at work but to not tell a potential mate, that doesn't seem healthy to me. I would never want to date someone who wasn't naturally the same. Date someone where I had to hide myself to make sure they want to stay with me. What is that? What you describe sounds totally not worth it at least to me. 

Besides that I have just read way to many threads were people in these lifestyles out and out lie. The reason being is they don't want to let a potential mate make an informed choice. It makes me prejudiced against the lifestyle in general. You don't help it by saying point blank you may not say anything about it. When YOU know that there are people if given a choice would not continue in a relationship if they knew. Ever hear of informed consent? It just reinforces my opinion that the whole thing is shady.


----------



## uhtred

Word does get out. The person they are considering dating may be so outraged that they tell their friends. 



Diana7 said:


> People are free to make their own choices in life, and its not likely I would ever know about their past sex lives unless I was a very close friend or family member.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Thor said:


> But I will tell you the biggest thing I learned with my xw is that the mentality that it is ok to withhold information from your future spouse does indeed predict future dishonest behavior. If you can hide something which you know is important to them before getting married, you will continue to be dishonest during the marriage.



I'm sure you're right about that.

There's another aspect that I have been considering. Often, love is defined as when "another person's happiness is more important to you than your own". Besides any issues of dishonesty, the question then arises, did the OP put her husband's needs ahead of her own? Did she truly love him? Or was getting her own needs of being married met more important to her than her husband's need for a certain type of marriage?

The OP mentions how important her Christian tradition is to her, so I assume she is familiar with the various types of Love that is mentioned in the Bible-- Eros (romantic love), Phileo (fondness, friendship) and Agape (unconditional sacrificing love, without expectation of return). By the Christian tradition, an example of Agape would be the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for the redemption of humanity (hence, the John 3:16 quote that is widely known, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish...."). Christians are challenged to love with the Agape love that Jesus had for all mankind. I'm not sure that deceiving your husband would qualify as meeting this challenge. (And likewise, if he learns of the truth, her husband will also be called to that same challenge.)


----------



## JustTheWife

oldshirt said:


> I'll tell you exactly why people with nontraditional sexualities are not as open and upfront as you want them to be - it's because some have been set on fire.
> 
> Some have been beaten to a pulp and chained to a fence post to die.
> 
> Many have lost their jobs, been kicked out their churches and disowned by their families and had their friends shun them.
> 
> As @uhtred pointed out, if a wife in swinging lifestyle comes out every guy at work and every guy in the neighborhood and every guy at Wal Mart is going to ask her for a quickie or a hummer in the broom closet.
> 
> If I as a man in the swinger community comes out, every person I know is going to think I am going to try to get with their wives or worse yet believe that I am a threat to their kids. If I say so much as telling a female coworker that she looks nice that day, I will get sent to Human Resources for sensitivity training or get disciplined with sexual harassment.
> 
> You have people like Diana where one drunken 3some in college is grounds for not dating someone because that person would not be right for her. Now of course everyone has the right to choose who they become involved with, but once you realize that one incident of nontraditional sexual activity will get you immediately labeled as a bad person or a threat or someone to be avoided, you quickly learn the importance of privacy and discretion.
> 
> Trust me, I would love to be more open and let my guard down, but I can't afford to.
> 
> I can't afford to potentially lose my job. I can't afford to every guy I know trying to get with my wife. I can't afford to have my friends and coworkers and neighbors thinking I am a threat to their wives and children. I can't afford to have my children shunned by their friends and have their friend's parents refuse to let them come to our house or hang out with my kids.
> 
> This forum is the only place I am able to be out and discuss these things openly. If you ran into me IRL you wouldn't think that I ever even kissed a girl that wasn't my wife and that is how I intend to keep it.
> 
> If that bothers you that I and people like me don't allow you to view what goes on in our bedroom, that is too bad. But until you and everyone else can guarantee me that some of the things I have done in the past sexually will not put my employment and my family and my standing in the community at risk, I will keep my private matters to myself and I will defend other people's right to their privacy as well.


I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.

I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.

Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.

Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.

I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## Rhubarb

JustTheWife said:


> I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.


It sounds like you are simply justifying lying to him. First I think if you had told him at the beginning that you weren't a virgin, you woudn't have had to give him every detail. Just the basic truth that you had slept with other guys before him. Then he could have made an informed choice. The fact is most guys wouldn't care. In fact most guys expect that you aren't a virgin unless you make a point of saying you are. If he is super religions maybe it matters to him but certainly he deserves the truth if he is marrying you. 

You can still remedy that situation and perhaps you don't need to go into the details. My wife was divorced when I married her and so was I. Do you think I question her on exactly what she did in bed with her ex? Do you think she asks me? No, we really don't care. We are with each other now and that's that. 

Just tell him that you weren't a virgin before you were marred, you are sorry that you lied and that you have always been faithful to him. If you want to lie about something (or perhaps it isn't a lie), if he asks for details just say you don't like to think about it and that the sex with him is by far the best you have had. If he ever finds out by himself that you lied, it will be a much harder pill to swallow.


----------



## Nucking Futs

JustTheWife said:


> I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.
> 
> I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.
> 
> Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.
> 
> Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


This is a completely selfish post. Do you realize that your husband is a person, with feelings, hopes, dreams? Do you care? Read it again. Even when you mention your husband, it's not about him, it's about how his reaction to the truth will affect you. Selfish. 

Your husband deserves a chance to find someone that will love him. But you don't care about him. You care only about yourself.


----------



## ConanHub

@JustTheWife

I haven't followed all of this thread but when you say someone referred to you as a wh**, I hope you are not referring to me.

I thought I explained my metaphor to satisfaction. Has someone else referred to you using that terminology?

I am picking up that your self loathing, guilt and feeling sorry for yourself are large issues with you that are getting in the way of having fullness in your life.

I think you should work with a counselor or therapist to resolve these issues before anything else.

I don't believe you are even in a good position to engage in a healthy conversation with your husband about your past.

I think you should drop the issue of talking with him about it and work to become a healthier woman.

Maybe your dishonesty can be brought up later when some of the surrounding issues are resolved first.


----------



## Thor

JustTheWife said:


> I don't want to ruin his life *by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things* that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


Your logic is exactly like my ex-wife's. From the beginning of our relationship she had that same philosophy.

The bolded part in your quote is you believing that you have the right to decide if he has the right to decide. Does your husband not have the right to make his own decisions?

As information came to light over the years, I was far more hurt by the deception than the details. Up to a point, I was willing to make a clean start with her, but it required she be fully and openly honest with me. She looked me in the eye and lied to me, _because her belief system was as yours is_. Until you come to believe that your husband has the right to know the reality of his marriage, your current logic is going to continue to make sense to you. Time and again I have seen your logic lead to other deceptions, because what he doesn't know about is for his own good.

The truth usually does come out eventually.

What was it that led you to the self destructive behaviors? Dealing with that is where your solution begins.


----------



## sokillme

Thor said:


> Your logic is exactly like my ex-wife's. From the beginning of our relationship she had that same philosophy.
> 
> The bolded part in your quote is you believing that you have the right to decide if he has the right to decide. Does your husband not have the right to make his own decisions?
> 
> As information came to light over the years, I was far more hurt by the deception than the details. Up to a point, I was willing to make a clean start with her, but it required she be fully and openly honest with me. She looked me in the eye and lied to me, _because her belief system was as yours is_. Until you come to believe that your husband has the right to know the reality of his marriage, your current logic is going to continue to make sense to you. Time and again I have seen your logic lead to other deceptions, because what he doesn't know about is for his own good.
> 
> The truth usually does come out eventually.
> 
> What was it that led you to the self destructive behaviors? Dealing with that is where your solution begins.


I would argue the lying is a destructive behavior. When you deeply love someone you want them to know the truth even if it hurts you. OP doesn't seem to get that. But then again I think that is how she got into this situation. How did you find out about your wife?


----------



## Malaise

Thor said:


> Your logic is exactly like my ex-wife's. From the beginning of our relationship she had that same philosophy.
> 
> The bolded part in your quote is you believing that you have the right to decide if he has the right to decide. Does your husband not have the right to make his own decisions?
> 
> As information came to light over the years, I was far more hurt by the deception than the details. Up to a point, I was willing to make a clean start with her, but it required she be fully and openly honest with me. She looked me in the eye and lied to me, _because her belief system was as yours is_. Until you come to believe that your husband has the right to know the reality of his marriage, your current logic is going to continue to make sense to you. Time and again I have seen your logic lead to other deceptions, because what he doesn't know about is for his own good.
> 
> The truth usually does come out eventually.
> 
> What was it that led you to the self destructive behaviors? Dealing with that is where your solution begins.


More often than not the cover-up is worse than the 'crime'.


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.
> 
> I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.
> 
> Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.
> 
> Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.



I don't judge you for having premarital sex. I had premarital sex with a number of women for over a dozen years before I got married.

And in case I haven't made my point Chrystal clear, I defend people's right to keep their personal lives private. 

You are 100% spot-on correct that people may think you are person of the year one moment, then find out you did one thing sexual they don't like and then you are a scourge of the earth. So for that I fully support your right to your privacy and your right to keep that to yourself forever if that is what you think is best.

However, I do think you made a big mistake in portraying yourself as virginal church girl in order to get with a guy that you are likely incompatible with.

When I say that you may be incompatible, I do not mean that you are bad or that there is anything wrong with you. I just mean you don't click together quite right (and I am getting that from your other posts in your other threads) 

I don't think this is something that can be fixed by untrained strangers on the internet and not do I think that this is something that you can pray away. 

My reccommendation is some serious individual counseling with a licensed, secular counselor/therapist and then if it is determined that you wish to remain in this marriage, that you seek licensed, secular marriage counseling on how to deal with the marital issues. 

This issue is a cancer growing in your marriage and your psyche. It's something that a competent oncologist will need to treat and not something that folk medicine and home remedies can fix.


----------



## BradWesley2

JustTheWife said:


> I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.
> 
> I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.
> 
> Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.
> 
> Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


OP, I agree with your thinking on this matter. Yes you did lie to him regarding your past, however that in and of itself is not enough to blow-up a good marriage. Compartmentalize this experience in your mind. Take it, lock it and bury it in the deepest potion of your mind, and throw the key away. 

If anyone should question you regarding your past, two simple words come to mind "plausible deniability." If you're not sure of its meaning, please look it up. If they have no physical proof, sue them for libel and slander. Also, get your husband involved, in order to help you protect your marriage. If the other party persists, sue them for everything they have. Then watch them fold like an umbrella.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BradWesley2 said:


> OP, I agree with your thinking on this matter. Yes you did lie to him regarding your past, however that in and of itself is not enough to blow-up a good marriage. Compartmentalize this experience in your mind. Take it, lock it and bury it in the deepest potion of your mind, and throw the key away.
> 
> If anyone should question you regarding your past, two simple words come to mind "plausible deniability." If you're not sure of its meaning, please look it up. If they have no physical proof, sue them for libel and slander. Also, get your husband involved, in order to help you protect your marriage. If the other party persists, *sue them for everything they have.* Then watch them fold like an umbrella.


You're advising her to commit a crime to cover up her lie. That doesn't reflect favorably on your character.


----------



## TAMAT

JustTheWife,

I have more to say but for now thanks for posting, some of what you wrote about how you feel is how I believe how my W feels about her cheating on me, I know you didn't actually cheat but the emotions are the same. In a sense you cheated on yourself. 

I also don't agree with the name calling as it serves no purpose, the reality of what we do is usually enough.

Tamat


----------



## Diana7

I have no idea how anyone can live with their spouse while they lie and deceive. It will be far worse if the spouse ever finds out and you havent told them, and they may well find out one day from someone. I just couldn't live that way, my conscience wouldn't let me. 
Be honest and throw yourself on their mercy. The marriage may not end. Of course we can try and justify anything if we want to carry on acting badly and living with deceit. What sort of marriage is it with such dark secrets? Hidden secrets have a habit of coming out when you least expect them to.


----------



## BradWesley2

Nucking Futs said:


> You're advising her to commit a crime to cover up her lie. That doesn't reflect favorably on your character.


You have little to no concept of what constitutes a crime. I suggest you get out of your little bubble and join the real world.


----------



## oldshirt

I need to clarify my position a little more.

I am not advising her to lie or continue to keep this to herself forever although I support her right to keep her prior personal matters to herself should she decide to do so.

I am encouraging her to seek professional, secular counseling/therapy and decide what is best with the help and guidence of the professional. 

If withholding her past is causing more trouble and angst than coming clean, then she should come clean with the help and support of a professional MC.

If it is determined in IC that it is best to put her past behind her and keep it to herself, then so be it. 

My point is that is a decision that should be determined under the guidence and support of a professional trained in these matters.


----------



## sokillme

Personally I don't think it matters what OP does. It's going to come out. It always does.


----------



## oldshirt

.....in other words I am not really advocating her telling or not telling.

I am advocating getting professional help and guidence to make that decision and having professional support and guidence in exicuting that decision, which ever way she chooses to go.


----------



## uhtred

Lets consider two regrettable but distinct futures:

In one she tells him, he is horrified and after long acrimonious disagreements, they have an ugly divorce, each believing that they are in the "right". He has a very difficult time ever finding another good relationship because he will have difficulty trusting again, and because his requirements on the purity of his spouse eliminate the great majority of potential partners of his age. She eventually recovers and finds a partner who appreciates her for the good person that she is and they live happily together.

or

She never tells him and lives with a dark secret, never quite feeling like she can be open. He never learns about her past and lives in a happy marriage to the end of his days. 

Which one is more selfish?










Diana7 said:


> I have no idea how anyone can live with their spouse while they lie and deceive. It will be far worse if the spouse ever finds out and you havent told them, and they may well find out one day from someone. I just couldn't live that way, my conscience wouldn't let me.
> Be honest and throw yourself on their mercy. The marriage may not end. Of course we can try and justify anything if we want to carry on acting badly and living with deceit. What sort of marriage is it with such dark secrets? Hidden secrets have a habit of coming out when you least expect them to.


----------



## BradWesley2

sokillme said:


> Personally I don't think it matters what OP does. It's going to come out. It always does.


HAHA. I guess you bought one of the used crystal balls on ebay.

Hope you got a d.ecent warranty with it


----------



## Rhubarb

BradWesley2 said:


> If they have no physical proof, sue them for libel and slander. Also, get your husband involved, in order to help you protect your marriage. If the other party persists, sue them for everything they have. Then watch them fold like an umbrella.


Not sure where the OP is from but that doesn't work in the USA. Someone can claim anything they want about you and you can't win a libel case unless you can A) prove that they are wrong and B) prove they know they are wrong. If an old lover spills the beans she wont prove A much less B. Why do you think there have been few law suits generated by "Me Too".


----------



## Nucking Futs

BradWesley2 said:


> You have little to no concept of what constitutes a crime. I suggest you get out of your little bubble and join the real world.


So in your world perjury is not a crime?


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


Ok let's get one thing straight here.

Just as they have no idea what you have done, you have no idea what THEY have done.

These people are no more pure and no more holy than you are.

Do not think for one minute that they haven't been in the backseat at some point themselves.

As I posted earlier in the thread, is the real reason you don't feel comfortable around these people actually because they are a bunch of hypocritical, pompous, self righteous and judgemental jerks????

They have their own skeletons in their closets so don't think for one minute they are one but better than you are.

You may have done some things you aren't proud of, but at least you aren't going around pointing finger at people that did the same thing.

And you do not know 100% that your H hasn't done some things sexually before you as well. 

If these people make you feel dirty and damaged, it could be because they are jerks. .... It ain't because they are any more pure or holier than you.


----------



## Rhubarb

uhtred said:


> Lets consider two regrettable but distinct futures:
> 
> In one she tells him, he is horrified and after long acrimonious disagreements, they have an ugly divorce, each believing that they are in the "right". He has a very difficult time ever finding another good relationship because he will have difficulty trusting again, and because his requirements on the purity of his spouse eliminate the great majority of potential partners of his age. She eventually recovers and finds a partner who appreciates her for the good person that she is and they live happily together.
> 
> or
> 
> She never tells him and lives with a dark secret, never quite feeling like she can be open. He never learns about her past and lives in a happy marriage to the end of his days.
> 
> Which one is more selfish?


Suppose he's told by a former lover, becomes suicidal because he was betrayed and hangs himself.

or 

Suppose she tells him, but is there to comfort him and he gets passed it.

Anyone can play the scenario game.


----------



## BradWesley2

Rhubarb said:


> Not sure where the OP is from but that doesn't work in the USA. Someone can claim anything they want about you and you can't win a libel case unless you can A) prove that they are wrong and B) prove they know they are wrong. If an old lover spills the beans she wont prove A much less B. Why do you think there have been few law suits generated by "Me Too".


In suing someone you can classify it as defamation, so long as the one party spread a lie to a third party, about the the defamed individual. The burden of proof falls on the person making the claims. 

With regards to "MeToo", almost all of these guys are guilty as charged. They just want all the media to go away.


----------



## BradWesley2

Nucking Futs said:


> So in your world perjury is not a crime?


Perjury is only committed during a trial. Also, perjury is committed on a daily basis throughout the U.S. justice system on a daily basis.

I wouldn't advise anyone to perjure themselves on a capital crime trial, but on a civil trial very debatable.

Get used to it, get out of your bubble.


----------



## Rhubarb

BradWesley2 said:


> In suing someone you can classify it as defamation, so long as the one party spread a lie to a third party, about the the defamed individual. The burden of proof falls on the person making the claims.


Sorry but this is wrong. The burden of proof is on the one filing a defamation claim. They must prove the claim made against them is false AND that the one who made the claim must have reasonably known it to be false. In this case since the claims would be true, there is no proof to be had. The USA is different in this respect from the UK.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BradWesley2 said:


> Perjury is only committed during a trial. Also, perjury is committed on a daily basis throughout the U.S. justice system on a daily basis.
> 
> I wouldn't advise anyone to perjure themselves on a capital crime trial, but on a civil trial very debatable.
> 
> Get used to it, get out of your bubble.


Wrong. The paperwork you fill out to file the suit contains a perjury provision. Bottom line, you're telling someone to sue someone for lying while knowing that that person is not lying. She would have to commit perjury just to file that suit. And whether that is ever prosecuted or not, it's still a crime as well as a scumbag move.

I was questioning your character before. Now there is no question.


----------



## Luvher4life

Wow! I'm just now reading this. It brings to mind the old saying, "Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive."

Another old saying is, "What he doesn't know won't hurt him."

OP, you are beating yourself up for this. You are forgiven. Your past is in the past for a reason. It's made you who you are today. As for telling him, that's a whole other dilemma I can't really advise you on. That is your decision. Either way you go there will be consequences. That's the exact reasons the sayings I quoted were made.

Personally, I've been married to my wife for over 21 years. If I came to find out now that she was hiding secrets like yours I would have decisions to make. Her past really wouldn't matter as much as the fact that she actually hid it from me for so long. The trust would be broken, and I don't know exactly what I would do, to be honest.

You will have to live with whatever decision you make from now on, regardless. Pray about it, and put it in God's hands. If we are truly to be Christ like, we would be able to forgive. The problem is we are human, and will fall short every time. The forgiving part is easier than the forgetting part.

I actually HATE to say this, but I would bury this secret, and pray to God that it is never found out. You will just have to live with the feelings of guilt.


----------



## JayDee7

OP when are you going to confess your sin of lying to him and ask him for forgiveness?you know, the Christian thing to do? It’s likely bothering so much because in your heart you know it’s wrong to sin against someone without asking for their forgiveness. It’s not going to go away.


----------



## Thor

sokillme said:


> How did you find out about your wife?


Short Version: I read her high school yearbook

More complete version:

She told me a few things but severely white-washed them when we were dating. After we were married I overheard a number of comments and conversations when we'd see her friends from home, as well as seemingly innocuous family history from her parents about her. Little bits and pieces. I did ask her about a few things, which she either dismissed, said she couldn't remember, or gave white-washed answers. I wanted to believe her, and figured things were towards the innocent end of the scale. Basically I was viewing the data from my preconception that she was who she had represented herself to be.

The unravelling came after she told me of her CSA, decades into the marriage. At the same time there were new red flags of an affair. As I was looking for hard evidence of an affair I leafed through her high school yearbooks, then started reading to try to figure out who she really was in light of now knowing of her CSA. A multi-page love letter from a boyfriend revealed a pregnancy as well as some significant lies. The trail led to discovering her history was quite a bit different than she had represented, and hinted at even more.

People make random unexpected discoveries years later. The internet has led to all kinds of surprises. All it takes is one comment or piece of data which suddenly opens the floodgates.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Lets consider two regrettable but distinct futures:
> 
> In one she tells him, he is horrified and after long acrimonious disagreements, they have an ugly divorce, each believing that they are in the "right". He has a very difficult time ever finding another good relationship because he will have difficulty trusting again, and because his requirements on the purity of his spouse eliminate the great majority of potential partners of his age. She eventually recovers and finds a partner who appreciates her for the good person that she is and they live happily together.
> 
> or
> 
> She never tells him and lives with a dark secret, never quite feeling like she can be open. He never learns about her past and lives in a happy marriage to the end of his days.
> 
> Which one is more selfish?


Its far more selfish to not let her spouse make an informed decision as to whether he wants to be married to her. At the moment he is being deceived every day. Poor man.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its far more selfish to not let her spouse make an informed decision as to whether he wants to be married to her. At the moment he is being deceived every day. Poor man.


Before we get to pitying her "poor man" husband, We need to keep in mind these events were prior to them getting together.

This is not a case of infidelity or her cheating on him or carrying on an affair.

We have no reason to believe she has not been a fine, faithful wife, companion and lover to him.

Yes, she perpetuated a bit of a fraud in regards to her prior experience, but we have no evidence of any kind of maltreatment of him since they have been together. 

I'm not saying this needs to rug swept and to carry on as if nothing was wrong. She obviously needs help sorting this out. 

But we need to keep in mind this is not a case of cheating or any maltreatment since they've been married.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Before we get to pitying her "poor man" husband, We need to keep in mind these events were prior to them getting together.
> 
> This is not a case of infidelity or her cheating on him or carrying on an affair.
> 
> We have no reason to believe she has not been a fine, faithful wife, companion and lover to him.
> 
> Yes, she perpetuated a bit of a fraud in regards to her prior experience, but we have no evidence of any kind of maltreatment of him since they have been together.
> 
> I'm not saying this needs to rug swept and to carry on as if nothing was wrong. She obviously needs help sorting this out.
> 
> But we need to keep in mind this is not a case of cheating or any maltreatment since they've been married.


To lie and deceive a person you are going to marry about something so important is a very serious thing to do. Its marrying them under false pretences.


----------



## Thor

oldshirt said:


> we have no evidence of any kind of maltreatment of him since they have been together.


I bet though that keeping the secret has damaged his marriage already. While he may not know it, she has walls up. And, he may well detect something is a bit off but doesn't know what it is or how to address it.

_I spent decades trying to figure out what I was doing wrong_. My W was keeping big secrets which were directly related to the marital problems, and without knowing about them it was impossible for me to effectively improve the marriage.

Furthermore, he is living a lie. Which is maltreatment by definition.

Her previous lovers may be laughing at him behind his back, which could be rippling around the rumor mills. His reputation may be getting damaged.

Finally, when the truth eventually comes out via some random event, he is going to be harmed very deeply.

All of this is due to her past choices to lie to him and to continue the lies. I do agree fully with you that she needs to work with a qualified therapist before revealing this to her husband. Though she won't respond to the questions, I suspect some traumas are at the root of her previous promiscuous behavior, which will require therapy to understand and overcome. The outcome is not necessarily divorce.


----------



## Cletus

OP: let's just stick with the pragmatic. 


Is your marriage happy today? Do you really want it to continue? Will telling your husband about your past improve your marriage or is it more likely to blow it up? Are you more interested in telling your husband for selfish reasons or for his benefit?

Not being able to fix the past does not imply a necessity to destroy the present or the future. The selfless act might be to shoulder your guilt alone for your mutual gain. Your sexual dissatisfaction can and SHOULD stand on its own. It does not have to be prefaced with any other experience on your part.


----------



## uhtred

Why would her previous lovers be laughing at him. 
'
I dated a woman who was very sexually active. My only thoughts to her husband are "what a lucky bastard - she was really awesome". (I'm pretty certain he knows her past - she was never secretive about it).

I'd be much more worried about fiends discovering that I was married to a woman who didn't enjoy sex, than to one who did. 





Thor said:


> snip
> 
> Her previous lovers may be laughing at him behind his back, which could be rippling around the rumor mills. His reputation may be getting damaged.
> 
> snip
> .


----------



## TAMAT

JustTheWife,

There are a few important details missing, prehaps you could clarify.

* Do you have children or not, she should confess before having kids.
* how near or how far away are they. 
* do you or your H have contact with the men in real life or on social media or know people who do. 

Tamat


----------



## Thor

uhtred said:


> Why would her previous lovers be laughing at him.
> '
> I dated a woman who was very sexually active. My only thoughts to her husband are "what a lucky bastard - she was really awesome". (I'm pretty certain he knows her past - she was never secretive about it).
> 
> I'd be much more worried about fiends discovering that I was married to a woman who didn't enjoy sex, than to one who did.


Well he apparently has always been a devout Christian church goer. He may brag a bit to friends or coworkers about his great Christian wife who, like him, has lived a church approved lifestyle.

Meanwhile there are numerous men out there who know she was promiscuous before marriage. It makes her husband look the fool if he doesn't know what went on. If word spreads into their church community or other social circles, it is going to be severely embarrassing to him.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question.


I am going to preface it with the fact that I am not really religious...but can't you just tell him that at that moment in time, god simply told you to tell him this story because he had a plan for you to become one eventually and wanted him to like you? However you now cannot live with the lie anymore and now god is telling you to confess...and you are just following god's will etc? Or does it not work like that?

Otherwise you may have to persuade him to give up religion for him to accept you for who you are...I don't want to blame religions once again but if neither of you were religious, this would never have been an issue in the first place so...

Sorry, this seems silly (I think the past is YOUR past, however a lie is also your lie and it was probably an unnecessary lie. You could have just kept schtumm about this subject or did he need proof that you were a virgin?).
Btw I believe that's the same thing that happened to 'Virgin' Mary & Jesus but never mind.

Actually, I told my wife like 20 years ago the opposite story, when we just started going out and I wanted to impress her (it all seems so idiotic now), that I had a lot of experiences with women (I was a virgin, just like her) and that she should trust me when it comes to relationships & sex...(oh, the logic!).

On balance, if he's really that religious, I don't think there's any point in trying to convince him that you were 'just human' and tell him what happened: he won't see reason. It's clear that you can't really tell him if you want to stay with him.
Good luck!


----------



## 269370

PS: Before anyone accuses me of not having morals...I did tell my wife soon after that I made it all up and I was very embarrassed about it but we still laugh (about me and all the imaginary women I made up) today...


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## oldshirt

Cletus said:


> OP: let's just stick with the pragmatic.
> 
> 
> Is your marriage happy today? Do you really want it to continue? Will telling your husband about your past improve your marriage or is it more likely to blow it up? Are you more interested in telling your husband for selfish reasons or for his benefit?
> 
> Not being able to fix the past does not imply a necessity to destroy the present or the future. The selfless act might be to shoulder your guilt alone for your mutual gain. Your sexual dissatisfaction can and SHOULD stand on its own. It does not have to be prefaced with any other experience on your part.



I agree.

This is her cross to bear. She is the one carrying the guilt and angst. She is the one with the heavy lifting to do.

It is neither her nor our responsibility to see that he gets his virgin. 

Does her burden *NEED* to become his burden???

This is why I stress she get serious IC before making that decision.

Neither we nor her counselor/therapist are the moral police. 

Yes, she should not have done this. 

But does her past require her to blow up her husband's present and his future? 

Maybe it will be best for him and for the marriage for her to clean with him.

But maybe it won't.

My point is that is not our place to say. 

That is between her, her IC, her conscience and her higher power.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> To lie and deceive a person you are going to marry about something so important is a very serious thing to do. Its marrying them under false pretences.


I agree. That was a very wrong thing to do.

But the question is what is the greater wrong, living a good present life and seeking help for her guilt and dilemma on her own.

Or shifting it onto him and blowing up his world to ease her own guilt? 

I'm not saying she didn't do anything wrong and should just rug sweep it. 

I'm saying seek professional help to determine what will be the best course of action going forward. 

Relieving one's own guilt and pain at the expense of pain and angst to others isn't exactly Christian IMHO.


----------



## oldshirt

Thor said:


> I bet though that keeping the secret has damaged his marriage already. While he may not know it, she has walls up. And, he may well detect something is a bit off but doesn't know what it is or how to address it.
> 
> _I spent decades trying to figure out what I was doing wrong_. My W was keeping big secrets which were directly related to the marital problems, and without knowing about them it was impossible for me to effectively improve the marriage.
> 
> Furthermore, he is living a lie. Which is maltreatment by definition.
> 
> Her previous lovers may be laughing at him behind his back, which could be rippling around the rumor mills. His reputation may be getting damaged.
> 
> Finally, when the truth eventually comes out via some random event, he is going to be harmed very deeply.
> 
> All of this is due to her past choices to lie to him and to continue the lies. I do agree fully with you that she needs to work with a qualified therapist before revealing this to her husband. Though she won't respond to the questions, I suspect some traumas are at the root of her previous promiscuous behavior, which will require therapy to understand and overcome. The outcome is not necessarily divorce.


Right. I agree that this is likely impacting her and the marriage and there for is probably having an impact on him or will be shortly.

On that we are in agreement.

My reccomendation is to seek professional guidence before telling or not telling.

Make that determination under professional care and guidence.

This is a cancer growing on her psyche, marriage and soul.

You treat cancer by going to the oncologist. You don't treat it with folk remedies suggested by strangers on the internet that have gone through their own unique cancers.


----------



## Adelais

JustTheWife said:


> - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things.
> Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


Your friends don't have to know about your sex life from before you were married or about it currently. It is none of their business. Most likely, a few if not several of them also had premarital sex, and it is none of your business. People, especially young people, do things that they later regret. No one has the duty to inform everyone they meet of all the stupid things they did before they grew up emotionally and spiritually.

Your husband, however, did have a right to know the truth about the woman he was falling in love with. You valued virginity, even though you were no longer a virgin due to your poor emotional and spiritual state. He also valued it and claims you were his first.

You aren't a wh*re, even though maybe you used to be one, according to the definition. The guys you were sexual with were also wh*res, even though society doesn't look at it like that.

Just so you know, I too was a wh*re before I married my husband. I wasn't a Christian (yet) and I used all my previous experience to seduce him...he was a 29 year old Christian virgin, saving himself for his wife. He felt guilty about what we were doing, and suddenly, (after I believed in Jesus) I realized that I was actively encouraging a person to go against their values...I stopped, and the last 5 months of our engagement were sex free.

The day after he asked me to marry him, I sat him down and told him about all the things I had done in my life that I thought he might take issue with: sex with many people, cocaine use a couple of times, pot use a few times, and infidelity in my first marriage. It was pretty bad. I thought he was going to take back his proposal, but I wanted him to know everything about me, so he would never feel betrayed or lied to and regret marrying me.

He listened and said that all that I told him was done before I gave my life to Christ and that God had forgiven me, so who was he to hold a grudge. He knew I was not going to repeat any of it, and to this day, I haven't. He is the one who was unfaithful, and who brought me to TAM!!

(After 26 years of marriage, and his own infidelity he got retroactive jealousy for about 6 months. He was really bothered about my having had sex with men other than him...even though it was before we met!! He is over it now.)

Since his infidelity he has realized that he is the one who lied to me before and after our marriage...not about his virginity, but about lots of little things he was ashamed of, or feared he'd be rejected over. I would have been angry, but we would have gotten through it.

Since you are a faithful wife, that is all he needs to know about you. However, if you ever want to feel 100% sure that your marriage is authentic, and that he truly loves you for who you are, even with all your stupid mistakes, you might need to tell him about your lie. He will feel betrayed, and feel your marriage has been a sham from day 1 until the day you told him the truth. In a way it has been a sham. That is why you are feeling badly about your first lie, and continuous lying to uphold the first lie.

Just know: from the day you tell him the truth, and on into the future, your marriage will be 100% authentic for you and for your husband.

He will struggle with the truth, maybe for quite a while, but if his faith is real, and if his love is real, he will get through to the other side, and your marriage will be stronger than it ever was.


----------



## Thor

oldshirt said:


> Right. I agree that this is likely impacting her and the marriage and there for is probably having an impact on him or will be shortly.
> 
> On that we are in agreement.
> 
> My reccomendation is to seek professional guidence before telling or not telling.
> 
> Make that determination under professional care and guidence.
> 
> This is a cancer growing on her psyche, marriage and soul.
> 
> You treat cancer by going to the oncologist. You don't treat it with folk remedies suggested by strangers on the internet that have gone through their own unique cancers.


The only issue I have is that a subset of therapists believe in not telling the betrayed spouse. This is their default position. Like an oncologist who only believes in chemo, never radiation.

I think the approach with the therapist would be A) Dealing with whatever traumas or circumstances which contributed to the promiscuity, B) Figuring out the best approach going forward, *always respecting the rights of an adult to know the truth of their marriage*. Selfishness disguised as kindness has brought this crisis. Really, for me, it is every bit the same as whether a spouse should be told of a sexual affair. But, however OP moves forward does need to be with professional guidance.

I strongly second your recommendation of a _secular_ therapist.


----------



## Nucking Futs

oldshirt said:


> I agree. That was a very wrong thing to do.
> 
> *But the question is what is the greater wrong, living a good present life and seeking help for her guilt and dilemma on her own.
> 
> Or shifting it onto him and blowing up his world to ease her own guilt?*
> 
> I'm not saying she didn't do anything wrong and should just rug sweep it.
> 
> I'm saying seek professional help to determine what will be the best course of action going forward.
> 
> Relieving one's own guilt and pain at the expense of pain and angst to others isn't exactly Christian IMHO.


For the Christians reading this thread, I have to ask. The part in bold is twisting the situation to present sinning as the righteous choice. Would this kind of sophistry be inspired by God, or by the father of lies?


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

oldshirt said:


> Right. I agree that this is likely impacting her and the marriage and there for is probably having an* impact on him or will be shortly.
> *
> On that we are in agreement.
> 
> My reccomendation is to seek professional guidence before telling or not telling.
> 
> Make that determination under professional care and guidence.
> 
> This is a cancer growing on her psyche, marriage and soul.
> 
> You treat cancer by going to the oncologist. You don't treat it with folk remedies suggested by strangers on the internet that have gone through their own unique cancers.


I think the marriage is more impacted then @JustTheWife would admit to.

Not to threadjack, but my statement comes from experience. My wife told me she was a virgin in pre-marital counseling. Shortly after we got married, I noticed that she would refuse any number of fairly tame attempts at different positions, different locations, etc. 

I took it personally because I thought it was something about me that she didn't like. I thought she hated having sex with me.

I found out because she always refused me giving her oral. One Saturday night, we had been together doing fun activities all day,and she was taking a shower before bed. When she got into bed, I started to initiate, and then tried to go down on her. She said "I'm sweaty", you just got out of the shower? "I'm having my period", That was over 2 weeks ago. "I need to feel closer to you", We've been doing all the fun stuff you like all day?

Then she got extremely angry and said "I HATE the feeling of your tongue on my clitoris & you suck my lips too hard"

I sat up, didn't say a word & just stared at her. In the almost 2 years we had been married, she had NEVER let me kiss anywhere below breasts.

She realized the cat was out of the bag & started screaming at me that all I thought about was sex.

I started yelling at her asking who she was cheating on me with, because she said she had no prior experience before we got married. (yaa, I know, I was stupid & gullible)

I finally left because I was getting close to losing my temper. When I got back, we had another heated discussion before she admitted that she was not a virgin, had a 4 year bf in high school and had actually been engaged to him.

Many of my fairly tame requests for something other than missionary was triggering her as her bf was abusive..

I would like to hear from OP's husband. I bet he could give a laundry list of things that he has never experienced, but would like to, yet OP shuts him down when he attempts them.

@JustTheWife , as another poster noted, you, (if not already), will start losing respect for your husband. In your mind you are thinking "How can he be so dumb, to not know". He probably feels something is off, but he trusts you. 

I forgave my wife fairly quickly for lying. What made me much more angry was how complacent she was in NOT working on improving her feelings towards sex or me.

I told her a while back -" I thought we would together, figure out what we liked or dis-liked. In doing so, we would build memories of different sexual experiences together. I married you because I wanted a passionate, intimate, uninhibited relationship with you. NOT to be told that you have been there & done that with someone else, and DON'T want to do it with me."


@JustTheWife the feelings you expressed about yourself are talked about in the link I posted earlier for you. https://forgivenwife.com/transforming-premarital-scars/
Please read the articles on this site, I posted earlier the ones that were the most helpful to my wife.

My wife & I are in a much better place now, the journey required lots of prayer and some hard discussions.


----------



## uhtred

In my case it was inspired by the "father of lies" who believes that doing less harm is right, even if you have to sin to do so. I / we believe that whatever situation you are in, you try to decide what on average will cause the least harm to others and that you should not try to reduce your own punishment for your sins by harming others.


OTOH, we don't think enjoying lots of sex is a sin, but do suggest that always the best way to lie is to tell the truth. >


I'm definitely not going to the good place. 



Nucking Futs said:


> For the Christians reading this thread, I have to ask. The part in bold is twisting the situation to present sinning as the righteous choice. Would this kind of sophistry be inspired by God, or by the father of lies?


----------



## MJJEAN

Nucking Futs said:


> For the Christians reading this thread, I have to ask. The part in bold is twisting the situation to present sinning as the righteous choice. Would this kind of sophistry be inspired by God, or by the father of lies?


 My branch of Christianity teaches that when we sin against another we are to confess, apologize, and try to make amends.


----------



## uhtred

It gets tricky when the confession causes the person you confessed to to feel harmed. 



MJJEAN said:


> My branch of Christianity teaches that when we sin against another we are to confess, apologize, and try to make amends.


----------



## Married but Happy

It is never okay to lie about your past, IMO. It IS okay to tell someone that it is none of their business - and stick to that, unless someday you truly can trust that they will not judge. They can accept that or not, as they wish - but do not lie. And if you tell them and they can't handle it, that is their problem - and loss, if they break up over it. Why would you want someone who doesn't accept you for who you are now, regardless of who/what you may have done before?


----------



## oldshirt

Thor said:


> The only issue I have is that a subset of therapists believe in not telling the betrayed spouse. This is their default position. Like an oncologist who only believes in chemo, never radiation.
> 
> .


I know this is a hot topic and perhaps one worthy of it's own thread, but since it was brought up let's discuss it a little further. 

I cannot address whether there are therapists that automatically default to not telling or not. But if an IC believes that it is in their clients best interests to not disclose, they will recommend that. I know a lot of people have a big issue with that. 

The IC therapist is an advocate for the client and not necessarily the client's spouse. If the therapist believes it will cause the client more distress and angst and be of lesser benefit than nondisclosure, they will often recommend not disclosing. 

It's not that they are necessarily helping the client to "get away with it" or that they are conspiring to pull one over on the spouse, but rather weighing what will have best outcome for the client's well being. 

This is a case by case basis. I imagine if the client seems so distraught and guilt ridden that keeping the secret is harming them more than what coming clean would do, I assume they would advocate disclosure in a safe setting and in a manner to cause the least amount of upheaval. 

But if the therapist reasonably believes that disclosure would ultimately bring more pain and suffering upon the client than nondisclosure, I would assume they would not recommend disclosure and would seek other avenues of treating the guilt and finding other ways to move forward in a more healthy manner. 

The spouse's false illusions of a virgin bride is not the therapists cross to bear. 

(now I imagine if the client had AIDS without the spouse's knowledge and was continuing to have unprotected sex with the spouse, that might be different, but we can 'what-if?' this till the end of time)


----------



## oldshirt

Married but Happy said:


> It is never okay to lie about your past, IMO. It IS okay to tell someone that it is none of their business - and stick to that, unless someday you truly can trust that they will not judge. They can accept that or not, as they wish - but do not lie. And if you tell them and they can't handle it, that is their problem - and loss, if they break up over it. Why would you want someone who doesn't accept you for who you are now, regardless of who/what you may have done before?



Yes, and that really is what should have taken place here. 

She had the right to keep her past personal life private. 

Her mistake was presenting herself as a virgin and lying about her past. 
Had she said she wasn't as pure, virginal and innocent as she may have seemed but declined to discuss the specifics of it, he could have made up his own mind from that.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

MJJEAN said:


> My branch of Christianity teaches that when we sin against another we are to confess, apologize, and try to make amends.


This sounds like a very Christian way to be a Christian.





Nucking Futs said:


> For the Christians reading this thread, I have to ask. The part in bold is twisting the situation to present sinning as the righteous choice. Would this kind of sophistry be inspired by God, or by the father of lies?


_This_, like all of NF's posts, sounds like _pridefully_ sitting in judgement of others that need help. I hear no Christian love in your words or sentiments.


----------



## oldshirt

Nucking Futs said:


> For the Christians reading this thread, I have to ask. The part in bold is twisting the situation to present sinning as the righteous choice. Would this kind of sophistry be inspired by God, or by the father of lies?


If you are calling me Satan, I am afraid I do not have that much power or influence.


----------



## Adelais

My branch of Christianity exposes the hard fact that one person's sin overflows onto innocent people, and that the sinner will eventually have to face their own consequences. David had an affair with Bathsheba and got her pregnant. When her husband, Uriah, came home on furlough, he refused to sleep with her because his own men were still in battle, and he didn't want to enjoy himself. Because of that, David had him sent to the front lines, were he would be killed, instead of come home to find his wife pregnant, and expose her and David's activities. The consequence for David was the death of his child with Bathsheba. 

Even though he was deeply sorry for all he had done, and wished he hadn't done it, he had to reap what he sowed, and the rest of the world has the blessing to read about it, and learn from his mistakes.

God didn't promise that people would never experience pain and disappointment. He never promised that His children would never do anything wrong. The Bible is full of imperfect people, doing lots of terrible things, and then having to live with the consequences. 

Yet God loves them and keeps getting involved in their lives, finally coming and living as a man, being killed even though He did nothing wrong, conquering death and leaving behind a part of Himself, His Spirit, to speak to us, lead us, comfort us until we are with Him in heaven.

God's promise is that He will never abandon or ignore those who believe in Him. Even if we feel alone at times, we are not truly alone.

JustTheWife: If your husband's faith is real, the devastation of your lie will not destroy him. His God will see him through, and hopefully teach him to show you the mercy that he has been shown. 

Although it is not your place to tell him what I'm about to tell you, I'm sure that if your husband is honest with himself, he will realize that he has had secret sin that he has purposefully kept from you. No one is perfect. We all need to forgive and be forgiven for something for as long as we are living on this earth. If he can't forgive you, then it is on him, and you will be paying for your lie by losing him. Learn from that and don't ever lie to someone you want to trust you.


----------



## sokillme

To me not telling is taking away ones agency in their own life. It's cruel. It's a kind of theft. I know I would want to know. Besides it will come out. You can't sit in church an lie to your husband and in front of God and expect him not reveal it to your husband. Your husband is God's child too.


----------



## Thor

oldshirt said:


> I know this is a hot topic and perhaps one worthy of it's own thread, but since it was brought up let's discuss it a little further.
> 
> I cannot address whether there are therapists that automatically default to not telling or not. But if an IC believes that it is in their clients best interests to not disclose, they will recommend that. I know a lot of people have a big issue with that.
> 
> The IC therapist is an advocate for the client and not necessarily the client's spouse. If the therapist believes it will cause the client more distress and angst and be of lesser benefit than nondisclosure, they will often recommend not disclosing.


I would only agree to that line of thought in extreme examples. If a confession would likely result in serious physical violence, homelessness, or they are so psychologically fragile that they might suffer a serious psychological breakdown.

The typical thought process I have heard is that the cheater should not dump their guilt onto the betrayed. The cheater should bear the weight of their guilt silently, thus sparing the betrayed the emotional pain of finding out. There are now many therapists who don't follow that thought process.


----------



## Nucking Futs

oldshirt said:


> If you are calling me Satan, I am afraid I do not have that much power or influence.


I'm not calling you satan, I'm pointing out that your advice is inspired by satan.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Maxwedge 413 said:


> This sounds like a very Christian way to be a Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *This, like all of NF's posts, sounds like pridefully sitting in judgement of others that need help.* I hear no Christian love in your words or sentiments.


Oh, I'm judging you all right. I'm judging you _hard_, and you're coming up wanting.

Oh, and see my responses in red on post 117.


----------



## uhtred

Matthew 7:1-5




I *know* I'm evil, so I don't judge anyone else. I understand the OP's actions and while it would have been better for her to have told him early, on the scale of sins I've seen, its a small one. She should do what she thinks will cause the least harm - I won't blame her if she makes the wrong choice as long as she tries to make the right one. 








Nucking Futs said:


> Oh, I'm judging you all right. I'm judging you _hard_, and you're coming up wanting.
> 
> Oh, and see my responses in red on post 117.


----------



## Diana7

I have no idea why anyone would need to see a counsellor before they were honest with their spouse about something they did. 
Its not hard, sit him down and tell him. You owe him that. You are living a lie right now. Yes its going to take guts, yes its far easier(and more cowardly) not to tell him, but secrecy in marriage is so wrong. If he finds out himself things will be far far worse for you, because the fact that you never told him the truth will make it even more painful.


----------



## Thor

Diana7 said:


> I have no idea why anyone would need to see a counsellor before they were honest with their spouse about something they did.
> Its not hard, sit him down and tell him. You owe him that. You are living a lie right now. Yes its going to take guts, yes its far easier(and more cowardly) not to tell him, but secrecy in marriage is so wrong. If he finds out himself things will be far far worse for you, because the fact that you never told him the truth will make it even more painful.


I believe there is some underlying psychological issue for OP. She has said she hated herself and let the men use her as a form of self punishment basically. I suspect the causes are quite significant.

But I don't think the timeline should be dragged out using therapy as an excuse.


----------



## Diana7

Thor said:


> I believe there is some underlying psychological issue for OP. She has said she hated herself and let the men use her as a form of self punishment basically. I suspect the causes are quite significant.
> 
> But I don't think the timeline should be dragged out using therapy as an excuse.


Best she tells him, and at the same time tell him why she did it and that she is going to therapy because of it. 
It has happened whatever the reasons she thinks it happened. She should have been honest before they married, but better late than never.


----------



## Thor

Diana7 said:


> Best she tells him, and at the same time tell him why she did it and that she is going to therapy because of it.
> It has happened whatever the reasons she thinks it happened. She should have been honest before they married, but better late than never.


I agree with that if she can do it.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I have no idea why anyone would need to see a counsellor before they were honest with their spouse about something they did.
> Its not hard, sit him down and tell him. You owe him that. You are living a lie right now. Yes its going to take guts, yes its far easier(and more cowardly) not to tell him, but secrecy in marriage is so wrong. If he finds out himself things will be far far worse for you, because the fact that you never told him the truth will make it even more painful.


OK, let's go with that and say that she should/will tell him. 

If there is a way that she can get her head straight and understand her feelings and motivations and where she is wanting to go with her confession and also if there is a way that she can approach it and present it and face the ramifications in a manner that is the least destructive; wouldn't that be the better alternative than to just blurt it out in a fit of guilt and self-loathing???

My point here is professional support and guidance. 

If she is ultimately going to confess, I think she should seek professional support and guidance first to help her organize her thoughts and feelings and present in a manner that is most condusive to having the least lasting harm and damage as possible. 

And if she is ultimately not going to confess, then I think she should have professional support and guidance to help her organize her thoughts and feelings and carry on with life in the most healthy and least destructive manner going forward with her secret. 

Whether she confesses, or does not confess, she needs professional support and guidance in making that decision as well as dealing with the aftermath of that decision either way.


----------



## Wolfman1968

I think the OP have been through all these arguments pro and con before.

I suspect she has made her decision already, in fact.


So, to answer the question in the OP's title to this thread: No, pretty much no one here thinks lying is harmless. There is some debate about whether the "horse is out of the barn", so to speak, on revealing things now, but even those who advocate NOT confessing agree that the lying in the first place was wrong.

So my question for the OP is: what information do you want now about this situation? Because I suspect you have already made your decision, (I could be wrong, but that's my guess), how can we help you further on this issue?


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> OK, let's go with that and say that she should/will tell him.
> 
> If there is a way that she can get her head straight and understand her feelings and motivations and where she is wanting to go with her confession and also if there is a way that she can approach it and present it and face the ramifications in a manner that is the least destructive; wouldn't that be the better alternative than to just blurt it out in a fit of guilt and self-loathing???
> 
> My point here is professional support and guidance.
> 
> If she is ultimately going to confess, I think she should seek professional support and guidance first to help her organize her thoughts and feelings and present in a manner that is most condusive to having the least lasting harm and damage as possible.
> 
> And if she is ultimately not going to confess, then I think she should have professional support and guidance to help her organize her thoughts and feelings and carry on with life in the most healthy and least destructive manner going forward with her secret.
> 
> Whether she confesses, or does not confess, she needs professional support and guidance in making that decision as well as dealing with the aftermath of that decision either way.


I think she should go to counseling to build a foundation so that she will have the strength to tell him. The problem with not telling him is there is no certainty that it won't come out. In fact i usually does. It's better if she can do it under a controlled condition. That he hears it from her and not some gossip or some guy she was with.


----------



## oldshirt

Thor said:


> I believe there is some underlying psychological issue for OP. She has said she hated herself and let the men use her as a form of self punishment basically. I suspect the causes are quite significant.
> 
> But I don't think the timeline should be dragged out using therapy as an excuse.


You may very well be right that there is some kind of trauma or major factor in her past that is part of the process here. 

So why not have that be evaluated and delt with professionally before making any definitive moves or making any decisions that cannot be taken back? Why the rush to judgement? 

Is it so imperative that her H have this nuke dropped in his lap today that she just blurts it out without any kind of guidance or support at all???

Is this matter so pressing that she can't process this and have the full story evaluated by a professional that has spent years and years of schooling and training for this kind of thing and deals with it day in and day out professionally?

Where's the fire? 

If she does have some kind of psychological issue or has had some kind of trauma, don't you think that it should be MORE important to have this evaluated and delt with by a professional(s) rather than her going off all half-cocked because strangers on the internet want her H to have his justice?


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> I think she should go to counseling to build a foundation so that she will have the strength to tell him. The problem with not telling him is there is no certainty that it won't come out. In fact i usually does. It's better if she can do it under a controlled condition. The he hears it from her and not some gossip or some guy she was with.


Well stated. I agree.


----------



## MJJEAN

uhtred said:


> It gets tricky when the confession causes the person you confessed to to feel harmed.


The confession of the wrongdoing isn't what causes the harm. The harm is caused by the wrongdoing. Continuing on with Christian beliefs, my branch teaches that sin spiritually harms both the sinner and who they have sinned against. So, in this case, confessing to the harm she has already caused, sincerely apologizing, and making amends would allow for two people to be healed.


----------



## TX-SC

Wow, this train has seriously jumped the rails...

OP, my advice to you would be to recommend marriage counseling to your husband. He'll be surprised, but reassure him that it's only to strengthen your marriage. If you can, recommend that part of the counselling be individual as well. Discuss this issue with the counselor and get their help in how to address this with your husband. If you do confess to him, do so gently and as genuinely sorry as you can be.

You love your husband and he loves you. I don't think he will divorce you over this. But, he'll be upset. The counselor can help with that part. The continued lie will be the hard part to explain. But, it'll be off your chest and out in the open so you both can begin to heal.

I said earlier that your marriage is based on a lie, and that's a real problem. But, you can change that moving forward. If you are a Christian and believe in God, then surely you must also believe that one day you will have to answer for this. Seek your husband's forgiveness and remake your marriage to one based on honesty.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

Consider where things are now. If she never tells, he may never find out and their marriage may last happily for the rest of their lives. She doesn't consider her sexual activity to have been wrong (nor do I) but may feel guilty about lying. From her point of view it is not some great sin she must live with - just a secret that would hurt him. 

If she tells, then its quite possible he will be devastated and the marriage will end. They could both end up unhappy. I really don't believe that they would be healed. 

I'm not thinking of right and wrong as viewed by some higher power, but of what will directly cause the least unhappiness.


I would love to believe that in a marriage each can tell the other everything. Unfortunately in many marriages that isn't true. Some people are not able to handle the truth about their partners. 









MJJEAN said:


> The confession of the wrongdoing isn't what causes the harm. The harm is caused by the wrongdoing. Continuing on with Christian beliefs, my branch teaches that sin spiritually harms both the sinner and who they have sinned against. So, in this case, confessing to the harm she has already caused, sincerely apologizing, and making amends would allow for two people to be healed.


----------



## JustTheWife

Araucaria said:


> Your friends don't have to know about your sex life from before you were married or about it currently. It is none of their business. Most likely, a few if not several of them also had premarital sex, and it is none of your business. People, especially young people, do things that they later regret. No one has the duty to inform everyone they meet of all the stupid things they did before they grew up emotionally and spiritually.
> 
> Your husband, however, did have a right to know the truth about the woman he was falling in love with. You valued virginity, even though you were no longer a virgin due to your poor emotional and spiritual state. He also valued it and claims you were his first.
> 
> You aren't a wh*re, even though maybe you used to be one, according to the definition. The guys you were sexual with were also wh*res, even though society doesn't look at it like that.
> 
> Just so you know, I too was a wh*re before I married my husband. I wasn't a Christian (yet) and I used all my previous experience to seduce him...he was a 29 year old Christian virgin, saving himself for his wife. He felt guilty about what we were doing, and suddenly, (after I believed in Jesus) I realized that I was actively encouraging a person to go against their values...I stopped, and the last 5 months of our engagement were sex free.
> 
> The day after he asked me to marry him, I sat him down and told him about all the things I had done in my life that I thought he might take issue with: sex with many people, cocaine use a couple of times, pot use a few times, and infidelity in my first marriage. It was pretty bad. I thought he was going to take back his proposal, but I wanted him to know everything about me, so he would never feel betrayed or lied to and regret marrying me.
> 
> He listened and said that all that I told him was done before I gave my life to Christ and that God had forgiven me, so who was he to hold a grudge. He knew I was not going to repeat any of it, and to this day, I haven't. He is the one who was unfaithful, and who brought me to TAM!!
> 
> (After 26 years of marriage, and his own infidelity he got retroactive jealousy for about 6 months. He was really bothered about my having had sex with men other than him...even though it was before we met!! He is over it now.)
> 
> Since his infidelity he has realized that he is the one who lied to me before and after our marriage...not about his virginity, but about lots of little things he was ashamed of, or feared he'd be rejected over. I would have been angry, but we would have gotten through it.
> 
> Since you are a faithful wife, that is all he needs to know about you. However, if you ever want to feel 100% sure that your marriage is authentic, and that he truly loves you for who you are, even with all your stupid mistakes, you might need to tell him about your lie. He will feel betrayed, and feel your marriage has been a sham from day 1 until the day you told him the truth. In a way it has been a sham. That is why you are feeling badly about your first lie, and continuous lying to uphold the first lie.
> 
> Just know: from the day you tell him the truth, and on into the future, your marriage will be 100% authentic for you and for your husband.
> 
> He will struggle with the truth, maybe for quite a while, but if his faith is real, and if his love is real, he will get through to the other side, and your marriage will be stronger than it ever was.


Wow thank you. thank you. It really helps to hear your views since we have some similarities here. 

In my case, I don't feel like a seductress as you described in your relationship. Others on my thread also imply that I lured him and like trapped him. I don't want to make excuses for lying but we were friends at the time and he pursued me to take it into romance. When we were friends, i was not pursuing him and when I lied to him i never thought we would get romantic. I did not use the lie to trap him or lure him in any way. It never happened like that at all. Maybe my false purity made him like me but i didn't plan it that way.

He is very sure of himself and his views on religion, morality, etc. I'm the weak one. I never claimed that i had life all figured out. I was weak during parts of my life and I'm still weak. I feel like all my life I've been led by someone else's agenda. When they wanted me to be a good Christian I was so good with it. Then when the guys wanted me to be their sl..., i was good with that too. When we were friends my morality and his morality were very important to him. I mean, he liked that I was a good Christian so I played that part for him. Then when we became romantic he loved me for being pure and wanted to wait to have sex so I did too. I was OK with that. He guided me back from all of that even if he didn't know it. The truth is that i never knew what I wanted for my life. I just drifted along with what other people wanted for so long.

I do know that I want my husband and i want to be happy. I;m just being honest and I'm not using being weak as any excuse for anything. i'm not proud to say that i've always drifted. But this is part of the problem. It's like I play whatever part is wanted of me just to make everyone happy.


----------



## JustTheWife

Wolfman1968 said:


> I think the OP have been through all these arguments pro and con before.
> 
> I suspect she has made her decision already, in fact.
> 
> 
> So, to answer the question in the OP's title to this thread: No, pretty much no one here thinks lying is harmless. There is some debate about whether the "horse is out of the barn", so to speak, on revealing things now, but even those who advocate NOT confessing agree that the lying in the first place was wrong.
> 
> So my question for the OP is: what information do you want now about this situation? Because I suspect you have already made your decision, (I could be wrong, but that's my guess), how can we help you further on this issue?


You and others who said that the title of my thread is bad are right. It's obviously harmful. It's now a matter of what to do about it now. I think I wanted to discuss how i live with it either with telling or continuing to keep this big secret. Either way, life is not easy. Either way its harmful.


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> I feel like all my life I've been led by someone else's agenda. When they wanted me to be a good Christian I was so good with it. Then when the guys wanted me to be their sl..., i was good with that too.
> 
> 
> I mean, he liked that I was a good Christian so I played that part for him.
> 
> 
> Then when we became romantic he loved me for being pure and wanted to wait to have sex so I did too.
> 
> He guided me back from all of that even if he didn't know it.
> 
> The truth is that i never knew what I wanted for my life. I just drifted along with what other people wanted for so long.
> 
> It's like I play whatever part is wanted of me just to make everyone happy.



This is why I am urging intensive professional therapy so strenuously.

You can't and won't accomplish anything in life until you become your own person with your own values and mores and sense of self and direction.

You need to put on your big-girl pants and become your own person. 

As long as you are just a cork bobbing in the ocean being carried wherever the winds, tides and currents take you, you will always find yourself in these situations. 

You need to become your own person before you can become a good wife, mother or Christian.


----------



## MJJEAN

JustTheWife said:


> He is very sure of himself and his views on religion, morality, etc. I'm the weak one. I never claimed that i had life all figured out. I was weak during parts of my life and I'm still weak. I feel like all my life I've been led by someone else's agenda. When they wanted me to be a good Christian I was so good with it. Then when the guys wanted me to be their sl..., i was good with that too. When we were friends my morality and his morality were very important to him. * I mean, he liked that I was a good Christian so I played that part for him.* Then when we became romantic he loved me for being pure and wanted to wait to have sex so I did too. I was OK with that. He guided me back from all of that even if he didn't know it. The truth is that i never knew what I wanted for my life. I just drifted along with what other people wanted for so long.


The bolded is where the problem lies. You played a part for him. You weren't authentic. Your past experiences shaped who you are and you've hidden that from your husband. Don't you think he might want to actually get to know his wife?


----------



## MJJEAN

uhtred said:


> Consider where things are now. If she never tells, he may never find out and their marriage may last happily for the rest of their lives. She doesn't consider her sexual activity to have been wrong (nor do I) but may feel guilty about lying. From her point of view it is not some great sin she must live with - just a secret that would hurt him.
> 
> If she tells, then its quite possible he will be devastated and the marriage will end. They could both end up unhappy. I really don't believe that they would be healed.
> 
> I'm not thinking of right and wrong as viewed by some higher power, but of what will directly cause the least unhappiness.
> 
> 
> I would love to believe that in a marriage each can tell the other everything. Unfortunately in many marriages that isn't true. Some people are not able to handle the truth about their partners.


I don't think her sexual activity was wrong, either. Lord knows I was promiscuous in my youth. The difference is that I was honest about it. It's my belief that if a person can't handle the truth of their partner, they are with the wrong partner. 

DH and I have had the "say anything" kind of relationship since the beginning. It was important for both of us. Sure, we've been upset by each other's honesty. Sure, it's been hard a time or two. But, oh, so worth it to have a barrier free relationship with someone who knows the actual me.


----------



## 269370

It's painful to read the convoluted attempts to try and justify selfish interests to sit comfortably within Christianity...
Has the humanity not moved on yet? It's completely fine to have sex before marriage. In fact it's probably more healthy than not as you get to discover what you like/don't like and can be a more mature sex partner later on with the person you love...Ok she mis-represented herself slightly, so what. 
I think if the husband is that hung up on this and insists on a 'perfect' wife with a 'perfect' past for whatever reason, then she might as well tell him and find out whether he has such strong hung ups about this in which case maybe the two shouldn't be together.
Isn't one of the main things forgiveness, when it comes to Christianity? If the husband is a real Christian, he is supposed to forgive, no?

On the other hand I will bet that she won't say a word because...well, people are people and will adjust their thinking, values or whatever they need to adjust to suit their life, religious or non religious.

I am not quite certain how he managed not to notice that he wasn't her first, the first time they had sex? It should be pretty obvious...(with pain and blood and everything when woman loses virginity).


----------



## 269370

Thee irony is, there are probably many women that fit the OP's husband's ideal of a woman: who waited and suppressed their sexuality (due to religious beliefs) and now are stuck with HD husbands who complain and leave their wives because they don't get enough sex or because their wives are too conservative in bed. The OP probably has a healthy sex life and a healthy attitude towards sex (correct me if I am wrong) because she led a 'normal' life, sexually, prior to getting married.
It's messed up. Religions make some things way too complicated where they don't need to be.


----------



## Satya

I'm not trying to sound negative.
You were within your rights to live and experiment sexually as you wanted.
However, your H may not have pursued you so hard if he knew your past. He was allowed to have rights as well in the determination of a future partner.

I'm not saying he would have definitely left you. I don't know what he would have done.
None of us do. What I'm saying is, you robbed him of his right to choose based on truth. You painted a truth for him that was false.

This damaged you as much as it could potentially hurt him (he just isn't aware).

Regardless of what you decide, I tend to operate on the notion of truth always finding a way of coming out, so that obviously colors my perception.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> Wow thank you. thank you. It really helps to hear your views since we have some similarities here.
> 
> In my case, I don't feel like a seductress as you described in your relationship. Others on my thread also imply that I lured him and like trapped him. I don't want to make excuses for lying but we were friends at the time and he pursued me to take it into romance. When we were friends, i was not pursuing him and when I lied to him i never thought we would get romantic. I did not use the lie to trap him or lure him in any way. It never happened like that at all. Maybe my false purity made him like me but i didn't plan it that way.
> 
> He is very sure of himself and his views on religion, morality, etc. I'm the weak one. I never claimed that i had life all figured out. I was weak during parts of my life and I'm still weak. I feel like all my life I've been led by someone else's agenda. When they wanted me to be a good Christian I was so good with it. Then when the guys wanted me to be their sl..., i was good with that too. When we were friends my morality and his morality were very important to him. I mean, he liked that I was a good Christian so I played that part for him. Then when we became romantic he loved me for being pure and wanted to wait to have sex so I did too. I was OK with that. He guided me back from all of that even if he didn't know it. The truth is that i never knew what I wanted for my life. I just drifted along with what other people wanted for so long.
> 
> I do know that I want my husband and i want to be happy. I;m just being honest and I'm not using being weak as any excuse for anything. i'm not proud to say that i've always drifted. But this is part of the problem. *It's like I play whatever part is wanted of me just to make everyone happy.*


Isn't this perhaps the real issue? That you are fed being how someone else wants you and would rather be 'yourself'? Might have nothing to do with telling ro not telling your husband about your past (which IMO is nobody's business except yours).


----------



## MJJEAN

inmyprime said:


> Isn't one of the main things forgiveness, when it comes to Christianity? If the husband is a real Christian, he is supposed to forgive, no?
> 
> I am not quite certain how he managed not to notice that he wasn't her first, the first time they had sex? It should be pretty obvious...(with pain and blood and everything when woman loses virginity).


Forgiveness doesn't mean he has to continue being married to her, though. An argument could be made that the marriage isn't valid as he married under false pretenses. A christian can forgive someone who has wronged them and still decide to extricate themselves from a relationship with that person. Forgiveness does NOT mean continuing on as before. 

Also, I only know one woman who had bleeding when she lost her virginity and that was because she had a very thick and strong hymen that ended up having to be surgically removed. For most women I've talked to about this, there was no blood at all or a tiny bit of spotting and only some minor discomfort. For me, there was only a minor stretching and burning sensation that went away a few minutes into the act.


----------



## 269370

MJJEAN said:


> Forgiveness doesn't mean he has to continue being married to her, though. An argument could be made that the marriage isn't valid as he married under false pretenses. A christian can forgive someone who has wronged them and still decide to extricate themselves from a relationship with that person. Forgiveness does NOT mean continuing on as before.
> 
> Also, I only know one woman who had bleeding when she lost her virginity and that was because she had a very thick and strong hymen that ended up having to be surgically removed. For most women I've talked to about this, there was no blood at all or a tiny bit of spotting and only some minor discomfort. For me, there was only a minor stretching and burning sensation that went away a few minutes into the act.


'False pretences': is one of the stipulations to allowed to be married to be a virgin? Would it have disqualified her from being allowed to be married by the church if she wasn't a virgin?
I think it's being taken a bit too far, this false pretence thing. Not everyone discloses everything about themselves. Nor is it reasonable to expect to disclose things that happened before the marriage. The fact that she was not a virgin is not a 'material fact that prevents her from being married to him or being a good wife NOW'.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Thee irony is, there are probably many women that fit the OP's husband's ideal of a woman: who waited and suppressed their sexuality (due to religious beliefs) and now are stuck with HD husbands who complain and leave their wives because they don't get enough sex or because their wives are too conservative in bed. The OP probably has a healthy sex life and a healthy attitude towards sex (correct me if I am wrong) because she led a 'normal' life, sexually, prior to getting married.
> It's messed up. Religions make some things way too complicated where they don't need to be.


Whatever. *Don't lie to your partners.* That is what this thread is about. Not your issue with people who wait or don't wait.

She specifically presented herself as something she was not. That something is part of his attraction to her as a potential mate. (We get it you wouldn't care, not the point) It's interesting that you think that is no big deal to lie though. It's also interesting that lots of people on the thread think it's perfectly reasonable to lie. Seems to be the one who had lots of partners? Maybe the two go hand in hand? Anyway relationships built on lies are not good ones. continuing to lie to your partner makes you a bad partner.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> 'False pretences': is one of the stipulations to allowed to be married to be a virgin? Would it have disqualified her from being allowed to be married by the church if she wasn't a virgin?
> I think it's being taken a bit too far, this false pretence thing. Not everyone discloses everything about themselves. Nor is it reasonable to expect to disclose things that happened before the marriage. The fact that she was not a virgin is not a 'material fact that prevents her being his wife'.


I sympathize with the OP here. Her past was her past and all that should matter at the time of marriage is their present. 

That said, the "false pretenses" has nothing to do with her not being a virgin or her "not disclosing" her past. Is is the result of her deliberate lie in which she expressly told him she was a virgin, which is something else altogether.


----------



## Thor

inmyprime said:


> Ok she mis-represented herself *slightly*, so what.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> Whatever. *Don't lie to your partners.* That is what this thread is about. Not your issue with people who wait or don't wait.
> 
> She specifically presented herself as something she was not. That something is part of his attraction to her as a potential mate. (We get it you wouldn't care, not the point) It's interesting that you think that is no big deal to lie though. It's also interesting that lots of people on the thread think it's perfectly reasonable to lie. * Seems to be the one who had lots of partners? *Maybe the two go hand in hand? Anyway relationships built on lies are not good ones. continuing to lie to your partner makes you a bad partner.


Haha, possibly but it certainly isn't me! I in fact only ever had one partner. As did my wife (though we had sex before marriage). I lied to her once saying that I had more partners but confessed shortly after a few weeks that she was in fact the only one.

I don't think it's ok to lie, on the contrary. I think it's stupid that religion is making such a big deal out of it (sex before marriage etc). I think she should be able to have sex before marriage and not feeling guilty about it, I think she should tell him these things (that she had previous partners) without being flooded with fear that he may not like her (it's ridiculous) and I don't think that he would be reasonable to leave her if he did find out that she had more partners in the past. I think you are misunderstanding my point (that the whole thing is quite ridiculous). I am not advocating that it's ok to lie. I am saying this lie is not really worth lying about.

And btw, just a technicality: but her not telling him that she wasn't a virgin when they got married *now* is technically not lying, unless he asks her about it NOW. She may have lied *before* the marriage, but not during. 

Some people...:scratchhead:


----------



## Cletus

JustTheWife said:


> He is very sure of himself and his views on religion, morality, etc. I'm the weak one. I never claimed that i had life all figured out. I was weak during parts of my life and I'm still weak. I feel like all my life I've been led by someone else's agenda.


Don't mistake surety for strength. How many times have we heard the story of the Fire and Brimstone preacher, the pillar of religious fortitude in his community, who turns out to be buggering little boys on the side. You're weak. Your husband is weak. I'm weak. We're all weak, in some ways. We're all strong in others. 

Whatever decision you make here, don't let it be someone else's agenda. Do the right thing for your marriage. Don't let anyone, here or anywhere else, browbeat you into accepting their version of what they think is best for you, regardless of how many posts they've made on this thread or how much they need you to accept their reality. 

Make your own choice. Only you know your situation. Only you know your husband. Only you can make the right choice for YOU. 

And if, in the end, you decide to tell him and it blows up your marriage, then I wouldn't be too hard pressed to know which of you I considered the better person, in the end.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> And btw, just a technicality:* but her not telling him that she wasn't a virgin *when they got married *now* is technically not lying, unless he asks her about it NOW. She may have lied *before* the marriage, but not during.
> 
> Some people...:scratchhead:


Semantic hair-splitting aside, again, it's not that she didn't tell him she wasn't a virgin, it's that* specifically did tell him she wasn't a virgin*. She made it a deliberate point to tell him that knowing that's what he wanted to hear. It was a bald-faced lie on a topic she knew to be important to him. We can bash religion all day, and we can be completely righteous in our indignation about how religion skews expectations and even destroys relationships, but that does not change the fact that this whole think kicked off with a deliberate lie. 

If you don't like the religious baggage, don't marry someone who carries that baggage, and certainly don't lie your way into a marriage with someone who carries that baggage


----------



## 269370

OP: I think this is what you should do: accept your past. Don't talk about it unless your husband asks you about it. If for whatever reason he demands to know the truth or it comes up, don't lie to him, tell him that he was not your first and that you were scared to tell him in the past, because you thought that you were not being a 'good catholic girl' if you were not a virgin.

*You husband doesn't own your past or has any right to demand something from your past that had nothing to do with him.*

If he still leaves you because of this, then there's something wrong with him and if it's not this, then some other control-freaky thing will break up your marriage eventually. My bet is that you have built it all up in your head way too much and that in reality you may have an argument about it but he won't go anywhere. He should accept you for who you are and to demand for you to have remained a virgin just for his ego, was not a reasonable thing to demand in the first place. 
From your post it seems to me you are sick being expected to be someone you are not all your life: so stand up for yourself, and be yourself without feeling shame.


----------



## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Semantic hair-splitting aside, again, it's not that she didn't tell him she wasn't a virgin, it's that* specifically did tell him she wasn't a virgin*. She made it a deliberate point to tell him that knowing that's what he wanted to hear. It was a bald-faced lie on a topic she knew to be important to him. We can bash religion all day, and we can be completely righteous in our indignation about how religion skews expectations and even destroys relationships, but that does not change the fact that this whole think kicked off with a deliberate lie.
> 
> If you don't like the religious baggage, don't marry someone who carries that baggage, and certainly don't lie your way into a marriage with someone who carries that baggage


Yes of course it was a lie back then (or an omission, it's not clear exactly how the conversations went. Maybe he assumed she was a virgin because it was to be expected and she didn't actively deny it? We don't have the script).
Don't tell me you or others never ever lied or omitted something? I am not arguing it wasn't a lie/omission.
I am arguing against people who say that she is 'continuing to lie her way through her marriage'. That is not true.
This doesn't really help her *now*.


----------



## Suspicious1

I assumed he asked if she was a virgin, which in my book is creepy and screems out controling and insecure but that's a whole other topic.

The OP knows her H, and why she hasn't said anything all this time. 

I hope she finds the strength to what ever decision she'll go with, but i believe he'll handle it bad and possibly stay in the marriage for what ever reason and make it a hellish one.

Good luck OP

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## samyeagar

inmyprime said:


> Yes of course it was a lie back then (or an omission, *it's not clear exactly how the conversations went. Maybe he assumed she was a virgin because it was to be expected and she didn't actively deny it?* We don't have the script).
> Don't tell me you or others never ever lied or omitted something? I am not arguing it wasn't a lie/omission.
> I am arguing against people who say that she is 'continuing to lie her way through her marriage'. That is not true.
> This doesn't really help her *now*.


Read the first post again. It was an actively told lie. She specifically said she told him she was a virgin in the OP. 



> I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all.


And no, I have never told a lie in order to get someone to enter into arguably the most important life altering and life impacting contract one can enter into.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> Yes of course it was a lie back then *(or an omission, it's not clear exactly how the conversations went. Maybe he assumed she was a virgin because it was to be expected and she didn't actively deny it? We don't have the script).*
> Don't tell me you or others never ever lied or omitted something? I am not arguing it wasn't a lie/omission.
> I am arguing against people who say that she is 'continuing to lie her way through her marriage'. That is not true.
> This doesn't really help her *now*.


Actually we do, which is why I have tried for the last three posts to make this crystal clear. But since it still isn't, let me add a quote from the original poster in her original post:

* "I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. "*

It wasn't merely a lie of omission or a simple failure to disclose. It is quite unambiguously a deliberate lie. Now, it may be a lie you don't think is important, but you are not the one she lied to and not the one she married as a result. As I said before, I sympathize with her situation, and agree it would have never come to this had she and her eventual husband not been feeling the pressure of religious mores, but that mitigation does not make this not a crux issue corrosive to the relationship. 

And whether or not, not repeating the lie is an new or ongoing lie, it most certainly is a lie of omission. People vary in their degree of concern regarding lies of omission, so I make no proclamations as to how serious this is. However, for the OP to make a proper choice, she must at least face ever one of her actions (or failures to act) for exactly what they are; no rug sweeping, no minimizing, no rationalization.


----------



## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Actually we do, which is why I have tried for the last three posts to make this crystal clear. But since it still isn't, let me add a quote from the original poster in her original post:
> 
> * "I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. "*
> 
> It wasn't merely a lie of omission or a simple failure to disclose. It is quite unambiguously a deliberate lie. Now, it may be a lie you don't think is important, but you are not the one she lied to and not the one she married as a result. As I said before, I sympathize with her situation, and agree it would have never come to this had she and her eventual husband not been feeling the pressure of religious mores, but that mitigation does not make this not a crux issue corrosive to the relationship.
> 
> And whether or not, not repeating the lie is an new or ongoing lie, it most certainly is a lie of omission. People vary in their degree of concern regarding lies of omission, so I make no proclamations as to how serious this is. *However, for the OP to make a proper choice, she must at least face ever one of her actions (or failures to act) for exactly what they are; no rug sweeping, no minimizing, no rationalization.*


I agree but what is it supposed to mean in practice exactly? 

Yes i read that sentence you quote and find it hard to believe that she just blurted this information out without being asked and feeling the pressure. How old was she when this happened?


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> I think she should be able to have sex before marriage and not feeling guilty about it, I think she should tell him these things (that she had previous partners) without being flooded with fear that he may not like her (it's ridiculous) and I don't think that he would be reasonable to leave her if he did find out that she had more partners in the past.


You act like she couldn't. She always was able to do all those things, she just needed to pick a different partner. What she wasn't able to do is do all those things and have this guy not care, (which was his right). So she lied. Which seems to be the MO of anyone here who has a had a lifestyle that limits their choices in a mate. This doesn't reflect well on the lifestyle though. Make it seem like living like this and then lying or at the very least hiding it goes hand and hand. Again a partner who lies or hides stuff is not a good partner. 

This is really the issue isn't it? Everyone is entitled to have deal breakers in who they choose to be a mate. Usually people who want a low sex-count are very open and upfront with it. This is life. 

The only ones who have problems are the ones who don't fit the criteria. Their advice seems to be to hide, or worse lie. Also to complain how terrible it is for anyone to have choices that make them ineligible as a potential mate. But no one is entitled to this. Every choice you make has an impact. That's life.


----------



## 269370

samyeagar said:


> Read the first post again. It was an actively told lie. She specifically said she told him she was a virgin in the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> And no, I have never told a lie in order to get someone to enter into arguably the most important life altering and life impacting contract one can enter into.


Are you sure this is true? 

We tell all kinds of things to make an impression on a person we want to impress and it's not possible to always know yourself what is 100% true in fact, what's a slight exaggeration, what's an omission etc. Yes there are degrees.

The funny thing is, had the OP phrased her post slightly differently, nobody would have come down so hard on her.
(E.g. 'My husband would leave me if he found out I was not a virgin when I married him. Is he being reasonable?')


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> Don't mistake surety for strength. How many times have we heard the story of the Fire and Brimstone preacher, the pillar of religious fortitude in his community, who turns out to be buggering little boys on the side. You're weak. Your husband is weak. I'm weak. We're all weak, in some ways. We're all strong in others.
> 
> Whatever decision you make here, don't let it be someone else's agenda. Do the right thing for your marriage. Don't let anyone, here or anywhere else, browbeat you into accepting their version of what they think is best for you, regardless of how many posts they've made on this thread or how much they need you to accept their reality.
> 
> Make your own choice. Only you know your situation. Only you know your husband. Only you can make the right choice for YOU.
> 
> And if, in the end, you decide to tell him and it blows up your marriage, then I wouldn't be too hard pressed to know which of you I considered the better person, in the end.


Marriage should never be about YOU. It's about US.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Yes of course it was a lie back then (or an omission, it's not clear exactly how the conversations went. Maybe he assumed she was a virgin because it was to be expected and she didn't actively deny it? We don't have the script).
> Don't tell me you or others never ever lied or omitted something? I am not arguing it wasn't a lie/omission.
> I am arguing against people who say that she is 'continuing to lie her way through her marriage'. That is not true.
> This doesn't really help her *now*.


Every day she misrepresents who she is. That is a lie to me.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> You act like she couldn't. She always was able to do all those things, she just needed to pick a different partner. What she wasn't able to do is do all those things and have this guy not care, (which was his right). So she lied. Which seems to be the MO of anyone here who has a had a lifestyle that limits their choices in a mate. This doesn't reflect well on the lifestyle though. Make it seem like living like this and then lying or at the very least hiding it goes hand and hand. Again a partner who lies or hides stuff is not a good partner.
> 
> This is really the issue isn't it? Everyone is entitled to have deal breakers in who they choose to be a mate. Usually people who want a low sex-count are very open and upfront with it. This is life.
> 
> The only ones who have problems are the ones who don't fit the criteria. Their advice seems to be to hide, or worse lie. Also to complain how terrible it is for anyone to have choices that make them ineligible as a potential mate. But no one is entitled to this. Every choice you make has an impact. That's life.


Well, she couldn't really because she felt the pressure to have to lie...In any case, I don't actually think he is going to leave her if she tells him. My advice is not not to tell him (or tell him the truth if he asks), but not to feel such a stigma about it. And if he gives her a hard time, then probably good riddance anyway. I think everyone is assuming he's going to leave her for sure (just because she is saying it). It may open new depths of trust who knows :scratchhead:


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> Every day she misrepresents who she is. That is a lie to me.


That's an exaggeration. Who is she supposed to represent? A ****?


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Well, she couldn't really because she felt the pressure to have to lie...In any case, I don't actually think he is going to leave her if she tells him. My advice is not not to tell him, but not to feel such a stigma about it. And if he gives her a hard time, then probably good riddance anyway. I think everyone is assuming he's going to leave her for sure (just because she is saying it). It may open new depths of trust who knows :scratchhead:


You don't even feel a stigma about lying to your spouse, what exactly do you feel a stigma about? How you feel about it has never been the points anyway. :scratchhead:

Again in your first sentence it implies that she was entitled to a relationship with this man, which is not how it works. :scratchhead:


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> Marriage should never be about YOU. It's about US.


The "you" was shorthand for you, your husband, and your marriage.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> That's an exaggeration. Who is she supposed to represent? A ****?


I think the general expectation is you are open an honest with your mate, about past and present.


----------



## 269370

MJJEAN said:


> Forgiveness doesn't mean he has to continue being married to her, though. An argument could be made that the marriage isn't valid as he married under false pretenses. A christian can forgive someone who has wronged them and still decide to extricate themselves from a relationship with that person. Forgiveness does NOT mean continuing on as before.
> 
> Also, I only know one woman who had bleeding when she lost her virginity and that was because she had a very thick and strong hymen that ended up having to be surgically removed. For most women I've talked to about this, there was no blood at all or a tiny bit of spotting and only some minor discomfort. For me, there was only a minor stretching and burning sensation that went away a few minutes into the act.


This doesn't seem like forgiveness to me at all, more like a loophole. 'Honey, I completely forgive you, now **** off.'


----------



## samyeagar

inmyprime said:


> This doesn't seem like forgiveness to me at all, more like a loophole. 'Honey, I completely forgive you, now **** off.'


A lot of people seem to have the same misunderstanding of forgiveness that you indicate here.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> Well, she couldn't really because she felt the pressure to have to lie...In any case, I don't actually think he is going to leave her if she tells him. My advice is not not to tell him (or tell him the truth if he asks), but not to feel such a stigma about it. And if he gives her a hard time, then probably good riddance anyway. I think everyone is assuming he's going to leave her for sure (just because she is saying it). It may open new depths of trust who knows :scratchhead:


Let's be clear on one thing first--it's not that she "couldn't" tell him, it's that she _didn't _tell him. That was a choice. Societal pressure may have influenced the decision, but in the end, it was still her decision. Societal pressure also promotes honesty, but somehow she managed to avoid that pressure, didn't she? It's often a little revealing which pressures we choose to blame for our actions and which we choose to dismiss.


Where we agree: I would also like to think he wouldn't bolt. If they have had a meaningful, mutually fulfilling relationship (other than this one issue) for all these years, then he should think twice before throwing that away. He should also focus on who she is now, and if that is a loving, faithful wife with whom he shares mutual attraction, emotional support, and spiritual beliefs, that is a marvelous thing that should also be preserved. And yes, if he can't hack it, she herself is better off moving on.


----------



## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Semantic hair-splitting aside, again, it's not that she didn't tell him she wasn't a virgin, it's that* specifically did tell him she wasn't a virgin*. She made it a deliberate point to tell him that knowing that's what he wanted to hear. It was a bald-faced lie on a topic she knew to be important to him. We can bash religion all day, and we can be completely righteous in our indignation about how religion skews expectations and even destroys relationships, but that does not change the fact that this whole think kicked off with a deliberate lie.
> 
> If you don't like the religious baggage, don't marry someone who carries that baggage, and certainly don't lie your way into a marriage with someone who carries that baggage


I think it's too simplistic to just focus on the fact that she lied without taking the context into account. The context is that religions can **** with your thinking, oppress people and project values that don't fit into our societies that well anymore (some values don't, while other values will be of value to societies probably forever; people basically just pick and choose).

Say (hypothetically) that you can only get married to a decent guy if you remain a virgin before marriage and due to the religious community or some other societal stigma, your options of getting together with someone decent are nil if you are not a virgin on the day of your wedding. 
It would be completely foolish not to look at the values as well as other factors. Yes, a lie is a lie and I am not arguing that she didn't lie, of course she did lie but I think it is narrow-minded not to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of these outdated values.

Don't mistake my posts for trying to legitimise lying in a partnership - I am not doing this.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Well, I have read most of this thread. 

I didn't see kids mentioned anywhere.

I didn't notice how long they have been together and how long they have been married.

I am assuming not long?

I am going to try to take a look at some of her other threads.

OP There is not too much I can add, lots of good advice here. It is a shame you lied about your past and felt the need to. I am thinking some kind of trauma as well to allow men to use you like that. Hope you can get counseling.

What is done is done. You can't change your past, but can change the present and future. This relationship was started on a lie. I do think you need to come clean to your husband, even if just for your own sanity.
@oldshirt can defend himself, but I wanted to say, I don't think he was purposely trying to **** shame you. This forum can get very graphic at times, some people don't mind, other people it can get a little embarrassing. Especially if the graphic comments are directed at you.

OP You don't have to be the woman you were yesterday.

1 Corinthians 6 King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

OP pray about this, come clean with your husband. Hopefully he can forgive you, hopefully you can forgive yourself.


----------



## 269370

samyeagar said:


> A lot of people seem to have the same misunderstanding of forgiveness that you indicate here.


Possibly. I guess that's why I am not any good at Christianity!


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> I think it's too simplistic to just focus on the fact that she lied without taking the context into account. The context is that religions can **** with your thinking, oppress people and project values that don't fit into our societies that well anymore (some values don't, while other values will be of value to societies probably forever; people basically just pick and choose).
> 
> Say (hypothetically) that you can only get married to a decent guy if you remain a virgin before marriage and due to the religious community or some other societal stigma, your options of getting together with someone decent are nil if you are not a virgin on the day of your wedding.
> It would be completely foolish not to look at the values as well as other factors. Yes, a lie is a lie and I am not arguing that she didn't lie, of course she did lie but I think it is narrow-minded not to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of these outdated values.
> 
> Don't mistake my posts for trying to legitimise lying in a partnership - I am not doing this.


No you are just justifying it because you don't like religion. 

By the way both me an my wife grew up in religion and both were not virgins. I really don't know many who married not out of high school who were. She had choices.


----------



## Primrose

OP's husband did not demand anything of her. He had personal/spiritual convictions that led him to strive to wait until marriage. He wanted a spouse with the same convictions. 

OP deliberately lied to him because she felt he would not pursue a future with her if he knew the truth. She took away his ability to make a decision for himself based upon the facts and has continued to perpetuate the lie throughout the years.

How many of you hinting that she should not tell, are the very ones who tell forum members here to expose affairs to the OM/OW's spouse because "they deserve to make a decision about their lives based upon the facts"? How many times have we seen the subject of having kids brought up and are told that it's important to discuss this before marriage because it's unfair to the spouse to change your mind and expect them to follow suit? 

We all have the right to bear criteria for future spouses. Belief/lack of belief in a higher power. Wants children/does not want children. Will/will not marry someone who already has children from a previous relationship, high sex drive/low sex drive, etc. 

OP's husband had his own criteria, but because some of you (me included!) do not particularly agree with his stance, it is somehow taken less serious here. She owes him the truth. He may decide it is forgivable and will choose to work things out because OP has been a loving, faithful wife to him at all times. That sure beats finding out the truth on his own. Hell, I even tell my own children that their consequences will be less severe when they come clean on their own accords.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> I think it's too simplistic to just focus on the fact that she lied without taking the context into account. The context is that religions can **** with your thinking, oppress people and project values that don't fit into our societies that well anymore (some values don't, while other values will be of value to societies probably forever; people basically just pick and choose).
> 
> Say (hypothetically) that you can only get married to a decent guy if you remain a virgin before marriage and due to the religious community or some other societal stigma, your options of getting together with someone decent are nil if you are not a virgin on the day of your wedding.
> It would be completely foolish not to look at the values as well as other factors. Yes, a lie is a lie and I am not arguing that she didn't lie, of course she did lie but I think it is narrow-minded not to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of these outdated values.
> 
> Don't mistake my posts for trying to legitimise lying in a partnership - I am not doing this.


Oh, but if you read my post, you'd see I did take context into account. I acknowledged the pressure it played here. But that something is difficult doesn't mean that excuses us from not doing it. 

Again, let's look at which pressures you claim as mitigation vs. the pressures that were ignored. She fooled around in a variety of ways with a good number of guys... despite the religious pressures against her to do so. So it's rather disingenuous to say she had to hide that activity because of the religious pressures against being "that kind of girl." Again, I am not condemning her sexual activity. That was her choice as well and I'm in no position to judge it. But I will say it was her obligation to own her actions in the presence of someone she supposedly loved and cared for, and who was set to pledge his life to her. 

It is inconsistent and selfish to say "religion mad me do this" about one thing, while violating the other tenets of the same religion. Her previous activity proved she was not bound by her religion, so subsequent acts can not make that claim either. So it's not about admitting the narrowmindedness of outdated morals--I freely grant that. But there is no basis in claiming those outdated morals as mitigation when you have already proven you are willing to cast those outdated morals aside by previous acts. 

And honesty, especially with whom you choose to enter a sacred union, is never outdated.


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> The confession of the wrongdoing isn't what causes the harm. The harm is caused by the wrongdoing. Continuing on with Christian beliefs, my branch teaches that sin spiritually harms both the sinner and who they have sinned against. So, in this case, confessing to the harm she has already caused, sincerely apologizing, and making amends would allow for two people to be healed.


I agree, keeping such a massive secret will be like a cancer to this marriage .


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> No you are just justifying it because you don't like religion.
> 
> By the way both me an my wife grew up in religion and both were not virgins. I really don't know many who married not out of high school who were. She had choices.


I don't like what people sometimes *do* with religion, yes. I do think faith is quite important (and beneficial) for many people and actually wish I had faith myself but that's another topic.

I am not trying to justify her dishonesty about this, I just think people are taking this a bit too far. I don't agree that just because she is not bringing this subject up with him NOW, that she is 'perpetuating' lies. I think she only lied *once*, before they got married. And yes, it was a lie (according to how she described it). I don't know what age she was. 

I just don't like the black and white approach and was mainly being devil's advocate in this: what if this 'lie' actually made her a more compatible sexual partner? What if this lie made her a better wife? (by feeling guilty and trying harder). What if she was lucky that she had these experiences back then and not suddenly decided that she 'missed out' and had serial affairs? What if her husband was much happier as a result? 
"Yes but she still lied' and yes I agree, i am just bringing up these things because life is not always black and white.
There are many 'ifs' and by bringing up the ifs, I am in no way justifying that it wasn't a lie. I think there's perhaps some comprehension issue or maybe (more likely) I am no good at explaining it.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I think it's too simplistic to just focus on the fact that she lied without taking the context into account. The context is that religions can **** with your thinking, oppress people and project values that don't fit into our societies that well anymore (some values don't, while other values will be of value to societies probably forever; people basically just pick and choose).
> 
> Say (hypothetically) that you can only get married to a decent guy if you remain a virgin before marriage and due to the religious community or some other societal stigma, your options of getting together with someone decent are nil if you are not a virgin on the day of your wedding.
> It would be completely foolish not to look at the values as well as other factors. Yes, a lie is a lie and I am not arguing that she didn't lie, of course she did lie but I think it is narrow-minded not to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of these outdated values.
> 
> Don't mistake my posts for trying to legitimise lying in a partnership - I am not doing this.


I guess this is why Christians want to meet and marry other Christians. As you say Christian values don't fit in with most of society now and that's because societies values have fallen so much, not that Christian values are wrong, but we can make that decision that we want to get to know someone who holds similar values to our own. Of course I don't agree that religions oppresses people or messes with your thinking, I have found the opposite. 

When I was single again in my mid to late 40's, I knew that a non Christian man would think I was mad for wanting to wait till marriage before we had sex, so I didn't even consider a man who didn't share that value. I young lady I Know has ended 2 relationships because of the pressure on her to have sex after only a few weeks. 
The OP met a man with a strong faith and strong values for whom this was very important. She knew that. She chose right from the start to deceive him and that was very wrong. She should have told him from the early stages so that he could have made that decision to carry on or not. 

Still she can still do the honourable thing and come clean, he may well not end the marriage, but if he does then that's his decision. Owning up, being honest and asking for forgiveness is the always the best way in the end.


----------



## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Oh, but if you read my post, you'd see I did take context into account. I acknowledged the pressure it played here. But that something is difficult doesn't mean that excuses us from not doing it.
> 
> Again, let's look at which pressures you claim as mitigation vs. the pressures that were ignored. She fooled around in a variety of ways with a good number of guys... despite the religious pressures against her to do so. So it's rather disingenuous to say she had to hide that activity because of the religious pressures against being "that kind of girl." Again, I am not condemning her sexual activity. That was her choice as well and I'm in no position to judge it. But I will say it was her obligation to own her actions in the presence of someone she supposedly loved and cared for, and who was set to pledge his life to her.
> 
> It is inconsistent and selfish to say "religion mad me do this" about one thing, while violating the other tenets of the same religion. Her previous activity proved she was not bound by her religion, so subsequent acts can not make that claim either. So it's not about admitting the narrowmindedness of outdated morals--I freely grant that. But there is no basis in claiming those outdated morals as mitigation when you have already proven you are willing to cast those outdated morals aside by previous acts.
> 
> And honesty, especially with whom you choose to enter a sacred union, is never outdated.


I agree of course there are always the double standards and people abuse them all the time. this is no exception. One of the other main man-made double standards is to create this ridiculous rule that it wasn't proper for a woman to have sex while for most men of course it's perfectly acceptable if not expected to sleep around, before, during and after the marriage. (Not as much anymore).

That's why I (half jokingly) said why not just come forward and tell your husband that it was all God's plan for them to get together? (and why wouldn't it be, going by this kind of logic? Isn't everything in the end?)


----------



## 269370

Ah but haven't you noticed that whether you are Christian or not, people still end up doing whatever it is they feel like doing (and the OP is no exception) and justify it to themselves, whether they are Christian or not.

What bugs me is precisely this snobbism in bold (I don't know what else to call it). I know you haven't meant it like this intentionally but there is always this presupposition that only Christians (or insert other religion) can have high moral values while everyone else's values must have fallen or be non-existent. When it's blatantly clear that this does not bear out in reality when it comes to self-interest preservation: people are people. 
I am not a Christian and I have lived my life (unintentionally) with much better values than I see some Christians post here (or some of the ones that I meet in real life, not all of course). (And the fact that I only had sex with one partner doesn't feature in this).
My conclusion is not that religions make people narrow-minded, but that a lot of narrow-minded people take and use religions to pursue their own selfish agendas.



Diana7 said:


> *I guess this is why Christians want to meet and marry other Christians. As you say Christian values don't fit in with most of society now and that's because societies values have fallen so much*, not that Christian values are wrong, but we can make that decision that we want to get to know someone who holds similar values to our own. Of course I don't agree that religions oppresses people or messes with your thinking, I have found the opposite.
> 
> When I was single again in my mid to late 40's, I knew that a non Christian man would think I was mad for wanting to wait till marriage before we had sex, so I didn't even consider a man who didn't share that value. I young lady I Know has ended 2 relationships because of the pressure on her to have sex after only a few weeks.
> The OP met a man with a strong faith and strong values for whom this was very important. She knew that. She chose right from the start to deceive him and that was very wrong. She should have told him from the early stages so that he could have made that decision to carry on or not.
> 
> Still she can still do the honourable thing and come clean, he may well not end the marriage, but if he does then that's his decision. Owning up, being honest and asking for forgiveness is the always the best way in the end.


----------



## Rhubarb

inmyprime said:


> Yes, a lie is a lie and I am not arguing that she didn't lie, of course she did lie but I think it is narrow-minded not to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of these outdated values.


How nice it must be, to be able to decide what values are outdated for other people.


----------



## Noble1

Lots of replies on this thread and it seems to be going in many directions.

The important one for me is the question the OP originally asked....is it harmless?

The answer for me is simple taking into context the OP, the husband and their marriage.

The answer is no.

The OP states that if the husband found out then he would leave for sure. That response, to me at least, indicates that the lie/omission/re-direction/etc. is a very big deal to the whole marriage.

For me, there is no blame to be put on the OP for her actions prior and even after marriage. The only blame the OP needs to be responsible for is the lie that was never reveled to the husband - re: virgin status.

It seems the OP knows its a big deal as well as indicated by her thoughts and such on this. The OP is definitely beating herself up because of it for good or bad but the fact remains is that there is a real lie that is the centre of the issues.

I cannot say what the best "fix" is for this as someone will get hurt no matter what happens and if/when the truth comes out.

Good luck.


----------



## MJJEAN

inmyprime said:


> 'False pretences': is one of the stipulations to allowed to be married to be a virgin? Would it have disqualified her from being allowed to be married by the church if she wasn't a virgin?
> I think it's being taken a bit too far, this false pretence thing. Not everyone discloses everything about themselves. Nor is it reasonable to expect to disclose things that happened before the marriage. The fact that she was not a virgin is not a 'material fact that prevents her from being married to him or being a good wife NOW'.


Marriage under false pretenses defined legally as fraud: one spouse makes false statements, and the other spouse agrees to marry based on a belief that the statements were true. False pretenses defined by my branch of Christianity: intentionally misrepresenting or concealing information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision. 

Which is exactly what happened here. OP knew that marrying a virgin, as he himself was virgin, was important to her husband back when they were just friends. She knew her history could be a dealbreaker for him, so she deliberately concealed it from him. OP didn't tell her husband the truth nor did she tell him that her sexual history was not his business. She specifically lied. That is absolutely false pretenses.


----------



## 269370

Rhubarb said:


> How nice it must be, to be able to decide what values are outdated for other people.


:smile2: Funny. I don't decide values. Make a poll about how many people married virgins and find out.


----------



## 269370

MJJEAN said:


> Marriage under false pretenses defined legally as fraud: one spouse makes false statements, and the other spouse agrees to marry based on a belief that the statements were true. False pretenses defined by my branch of Christianity: intentionally misrepresenting or concealing information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision.
> 
> Which is exactly what happened here. OP knew that marrying a virgin, as he himself was virgin, was important to her husband back when they were just friends. She knew her history could be a dealbreaker for him, so she deliberately concealed it from him. OP didn't tell her husband the truth nor did she tell him that her sexual history was not his business. She specifically lied. That is absolutely false pretenses.


No one knows for a fact that he would not have married her had she told him the truth. It's something she quite possibly built up in her mind. And now she rebels once again, perhaps against always having been perceived as the goody goody wife.
I mean how many years has it been has she said? Why now?

PS: Btw what's the appropriate punishment for this type of false representation according to the bible?


----------



## Rhubarb

inmyprime said:


> :smile2: Funny. I don't decide values. Make a poll about how many people married virgins and find out.


I didn't know it was a popularity contest. I mean is Jainism an outdated religion? Also alluded to "shortcomings". If nobody is lying what exactly are those?


----------



## uhtred

OP doesn't seem to have been back for a while, or have I missed her posts?


----------



## 269370

Rhubarb said:


> I didn't know it was a popularity contest. I mean is Jainism an outdated religion? Also alluded to "shortcomings". If nobody is lying what exactly are those?




Don’t quite understand this but I’m all for Jainism or any religion that promotes lack of violence.

Have children been mentioned? I think if there are no kids, it could be a pretty straightforward conversation.
If there are children, I think it makes the situation less obvious to me.
I think if it was me, I wouldn’t want to know about it. Even if my wife had an affair (trying to think of something more or less analogous in terms of dishonesty though an affair is obviously in a different league in terms of marital betrayal), I wouldn’t want to know, if it was certain that it was a one off

And yes I’m not in their situation, I’m just stating my position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MJJEAN

inmyprime said:


> No one knows for a fact that he would not have married her had she told him the truth. It's something she quite possibly built up in her mind. And now she rebels once again, perhaps against always having been perceived as the goody goody wife.
> I mean how many years has it been has she said? Why now?
> 
> PS: Btw what's the appropriate punishment for this type of false representation according to the bible?


No, we don't know he wouldn't have married her if she'd have told the truth. However, considering he was a virgin Christian looking to marry another virgin Christian and had made it know that it was important to him, it's a distinct possibility.


----------



## Rhubarb

inmyprime said:


> Don’t quite understand this but I’m all for Jainism or any religion that promotes lack of violence.


Well apparently you think less popular = more outdated. So say Islam is not outdated while Jainism is. Likewise abstaining from sex before marriage is outdated since it's less popular. That was your claim wasn't it? 



inmyprime said:


> Even if my wife had an affair (trying to think of something more or less analogous in terms of dishonesty though an affair is obviously in a different league in terms of marital betrayal), I wouldn’t want to know, if it was certain that it was a one off


I think that puts you in a small minority of guys. Wanting to know if your wife has been faithful is certainly not outdated even by your standards.


----------



## oldshirt

MJJEAN said:


> Marriage under false pretenses defined legally as fraud: one spouse makes false statements, and the other spouse agrees to marry based on a belief that the statements were true. False pretenses defined by my branch of Christianity: intentionally misrepresenting or concealing information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision.
> 
> Which is exactly what happened here. OP knew that marrying a virgin, as he himself was virgin, was important to her husband back when they were just friends. She knew her history could be a dealbreaker for him, so she deliberately concealed it from him. OP didn't tell her husband the truth nor did she tell him that her sexual history was not his business. She specifically lied. That is absolutely false pretenses.


Yup.


----------



## Adelais

inmyprime said:


> Ok she mis-represented herself slightly, so what.
> I think if the husband is that hung up on this and insists on a 'perfect' wife with a 'perfect' past for whatever reason, then she might as well tell him and find out whether he has such strong hung ups about this in which case maybe the two shouldn't be together.
> Isn't one of the main things forgiveness, when it comes to Christianity? If the husband is a real Christian, he is supposed to forgive, no?


So with your thinking, if a person is looking for a partner who is law abiding and "vanilla" and they meet someone who pretended to be vanilla, but really were an axe murdering, drug dealing pedophile, who paid for their crimes and spent time in prison for it, then the person who wanted a vanilla spouse is the one with a hang up if they are upset when they find out several years later. Personally, if I found out my husband was a "recovered" axe murdering, drug dealing pedophile, I would be very turned off and grossed out. I'd probably seek a divorce, even if they paid for their crime and were no longer like that.

Everyone has the right to decide how much baggage they want to deal with in their potential future spouse's prior life. You are judging people just because you have different sexual mores. I'm sure there are issues you wouldn't tolerate in a potential spouse's past, depending on what they were.


----------



## Adelais

Thor said:


> Well he apparently has always been a devout Christian church goer.  He may brag a bit to friends or coworkers about his great Christian wife who, like him, has lived a church approved lifestyle.
> 
> This is ridiculous. I've never *ever* heard of men (or women) standing around after church bragging about their spouse's pre marital virginity. That is just a ridiculous imagination on your part!
> 
> I have heard people brag on their spouse for the wonderful people they currently are.
> 
> Meanwhile there are numerous men out there who know she was promiscuous before marriage. It makes her husband look the fool if he doesn't know what went on. If word spreads into their church community or other social circles, it is going to be severely embarrassing to him.
> 
> The men she slept with are not going to talk about her, if they are Christian. It will also reflect badly on them. Do a little research in Proverbs on the topic of "gossip" and how badly the gossiper looks. They look worse than the person they are gossiping about!


----------



## Adelais

Suspicious1 said:


> *I assumed he asked if she was a virgin,* which in my book is creepy and screems out controling and insecure but that's a whole other topic.


LOL Why do you assume that? Most men, even Christian men don't ask that question. I agree it would be creepy if they did.

Most likely, her husband told her *he* was a virgin and why, and then waited for her response. That is when she should have told him the truth. 

If a man asked one of my daughters if she was a virgin (my daughters are Christians, and virgins) I hope she would tell him it is none of his business and that she is offended his is asking such a personal question. I would suggest she not date him again.

If on the other hand, he told her he is saving himself for marriage, and waited for her response, she might tell him her beliefs and sexual history (or lack of sexual history.)


----------



## Thor

Araucaria said:


> This is ridiculous. I've never ever heard of men (or women) standing around after church bragging about their spouse's pre marital virginity. That is just a ridiculous imagination on your part!
> 
> I have heard people brag on their spouse for the wonderful people they currently are.
> .
> .
> .
> The men she slept with are not going to talk about her, if they are Christian. It will also reflect badly on them. Do a little research in Proverbs on the topic of "gossip" and how badly the gossiper looks. They look worse than the person they are gossiping about!


It doesn't sound like the men she was with were church going Christians. It doesn't sound like she was hanging around with a religious crowd in her youth. It does sound like she was running around with a very different kind of crowd, which is the kind of crowd to talk about their exploits.

The truth will come out, someday, somehow. Whether it is one of those men saying something to a mutual acquaintance or an overheard comment somewhere, or a message on social media, or another random event.


----------



## sokillme

I have been on these boards a long time now. One thing that I think everyone should always remember. You are not entitled to your partners love. Nor are you are not entitled to forever. At best you are entitled to be is treated with dignity, which means the truth, no cheating, and your partners best effort, but I would say that about every relationship in your life. You are also required to do the same.


----------



## JayDee7

Truth and honesty are usually the best option when communicating with your spouse, even if it’s not easy. I wonder why that principle does not apply in matters of sexual history for so many. 
I’ve been honest with my wife even when I would have rather not been. She has been honest with me, as far as I know, and nothing in 20 years has told me otherwise.

Just a few years ago my wife had a new friend on Facebook, an old high school friend. That woman was commenting on my wife’s posts and pictures and I noticed it. It was a woman I dated for a couple months when I was 19, and I did the deed with her back then. I did not know that my foe knew her and I had forgot about her until I saw her comments on Facebook and remembered her. We even went to a dinner party and she was there with her husband, and I had to sit there and her husband kept trying to be friendly with me and the woman gave me a big hug and a look. My wife and her talked for a bit that night but my wife was more engaged in conversation with the hostess.
I told my wife, I had to. It was strange to me that the woman would be commenting on pics of us and our family, being friendly with us, and just awkward, and my wife and her reconnecting. My wife needed to know I had dated that woman when she was a 18 and we had sex. It was not easy to confess and my wife was visibly hurt by the news. I apologized and told her that I thought she should know. She was glad I told her and was upset I took as long as I did to tell her, about a month since the FB comments till the dinner party. I told her it was such an awkward thing that I didn’t want to mention it but they had reconnected and were likely going to meet up again so I wanted to be the one to tell her and not the friend. She asked me if I had dated any one else she knows and I confessed to another girl from her high school who she remembered but is not in contact with and another one of her friends who I had talked with on the phone and went out with but never did anything with. She was shocked at first, but within minutes she was normal again and called me some names, in a playful way, but she forgave me when I asked her to.
Thing is, it’s just better to be honest. Even when you know that honesty is crappy.


----------



## sokillme

Araucaria said:


> LOL Why do you assume that? Most men, even Christian men don't ask that question. I agree it would be creepy if they did.
> 
> Most likely, her husband told her *he* was a virgin and why, and then waited for her response. That is when she should have told him the truth.
> 
> If a man asked one of my daughters if she was a virgin (my daughters are Christians, and virgins) I hope she would tell him it is none of his business and that she is offended his is asking such a personal question. I would suggest she not date him again.
> 
> If on the other hand, he told her he is saving himself for marriage, and waited for her response, she might tell him her beliefs and sexual history (or lack of sexual history.)


My wife and I had lots of talks about sex. She told me about losing her virginity and I did the same. Wasn't weird, we also talked about politics, kids, money, baseball, music, hopes and dreams. If anything it's weird to me not to talk about it.

Being honest about stuff like this is a good way to build intimacy it creates a bond, everyone should try it.


----------



## Adelais

Diana7 said:


> *When I was single again in my mid to late 40's, I knew that a non Christian man would think I was mad for wanting to wait till marriage before we had sex, so I didn't even consider a man who didn't share that value.* I young lady I Know has ended 2 relationships because of the pressure on her to have sex after only a few weeks.
> The OP met a man with a strong faith and strong values for whom this was very important. She knew that. She chose right from the start to deceive him and that was very wrong. She should have told him from the early stages so that he could have made that decision to carry on or not.
> 
> Still she can still do the honourable thing and come clean, he may well not end the marriage, but if he does then that's his decision. Owning up, being honest and asking for forgiveness is the always the best way in the end.





inmyprime said:


> Ah but haven't you noticed that whether you are Christian or not, people still end up doing whatever it is they feel like doing (and the OP is no exception) and justify it to themselves, whether they are Christian or not.
> 
> *What bugs me is precisely this snobbism in bold (I don't know what else to call it). I know you haven't meant it like this intentionally but there is always this presupposition that only Christians (or insert other religion) can have high moral values while everyone else's values must have fallen or be non-existent. *
> I am not a Christian and I have lived my life (unintentionally) with much better values than I see some Christians post here (or some of the ones that I meet in real life, not all of course). (And the fact that I only had sex with one partner doesn't feature in this).
> My conclusion is not that religions make people narrow-minded, but that a lot of narrow-minded people take and use religions to pursue their own selfish agendas.


You think it is snobbism for a person to decide they don't want to have sex with anyone before marriage and to only date people she knows will support her conviction???? I call it wisdom and self respecting.

I couldn't count how many times I've read male comments on TAM that if a woman won't have sex with them by the 2nd or 3rd date that they dump them. Yet they also dump women who have sex too soon. They encourage each other to date (and bed) lots of women.

It might surprise you that many beautiful and smart Christian women don't want to be "bed" and a mere notch on a man's bedpost, but want to find a chaste, sexy, self controlled, respectful and self respecting guy to marry and have passionate hot sex with.

You are very judgmental, inmyprime. You have a lot of stereotypes and prejudice against Christians.


----------



## Adelais

sokillme said:


> My wife and I had lots of talks about sex. She told me about losing her virginity and I did the same. Wasn't weird, we also talked about politics, kids, money, baseball, music, hopes and dreams. If anything it's weird to me not to talk about it.
> 
> Being honest about stuff like this is a good way to build intimacy it creates a bond, everyone should try it.


What I'm talking about is a man *asking* a woman if she is a virgin, out of the blue, as if she is being interviewed, and as if he has the right to interview her.

If a couple are just talking and both are sharing their beliefs, and history, it would be natural for each person to *volunteer* the information on their own, *without being asked*, when he are comfortable.

I totally agree that honesty is good. I volunteered my sexual past to my husband (then fiance) *he never asked.* I thought he had the right to know my past, so there would be no surprises, and so he could decide if I my past was a problem for him.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Ah but haven't you noticed that whether you are Christian or not, people still end up doing whatever it is they feel like doing (and the OP is no exception) and justify it to themselves, whether they are Christian or not.
> 
> What bugs me is precisely this snobbism in bold (I don't know what else to call it). I know you haven't meant it like this intentionally but there is always this presupposition that only Christians (or insert other religion) can have high moral values while everyone else's values must have fallen or be non-existent. When it's blatantly clear that this does not bear out in reality when it comes to self-interest preservation: people are people.
> I am not a Christian and I have lived my life (unintentionally) with much better values than I see some Christians post here (or some of the ones that I meet in real life, not all of course). (And the fact that I only had sex with one partner doesn't feature in this).
> My conclusion is not that religions make people narrow-minded, but that a lot of narrow-minded people take and use religions to pursue their own selfish agendas.


Its just that I don't know anyone else apart from some Christians who don't have sex before marriage do you? Going by the many things I have read here on this forum, as well as the people I meet in real life, most are happy to have sex very soon into a relationship. In fact they expect it and will often put pressure on someone who says no. 
Thats one of the many reasons why I wouldn't date or marry someone who didn't share my faith.


----------



## Cletus

Araucaria said:


> You think it is snobbism for a person to decide they don't want to have sex with anyone before marriage and to only date people she knows will support her conviction???? I call it wisdom and self respecting.


The referred-to snobbism was in reference to the "we still have morals, the rest of you don't" attitude. That smug air of superiority that comes with knowing that only you and your fellow believers have the answers. That the rest of the world is going to hell in a hand basket because we no longer value a pure-as-the-driven-snow bride.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> My wife and I had lots of talks about sex. She told me about losing her virginity and I did the same. Wasn't weird, we also talked about politics, kids, money, baseball, music, hopes and dreams. If anything it's weird to me not to talk about it.
> 
> Being honest about stuff like this is a good way to build intimacy it creates a bond, everyone should try it.


I agree, we did the same. I would have no issues with a man I had been dating for a while asking me about my views on sex. I think its vital for a couple thinking of marriage to discuss this and to know if they are on the same page.


----------



## Cletus

Araucaria said:


> You think it is snobbism for a person to decide they don't want to have sex with anyone before marriage and to only date people she knows will support her conviction???? I call it wisdom and self respecting.


I can regale you for hours on the possible negative outcomes when you marry someone with whom you are sexually incompatible. If sex before marriage ain't your thing, no problem. But I for one, having gained *considerable* wisdom on the matter, would never do so again.


----------



## ConanHub

Actually a lot of church people give something called testimonies and I've seen many couples encourage singles to wait for marriage by sharing their testimony about how they stayed virgins until married, even giving tips on what to avoid and how to successfully save yourself for marriage.

Happens a lot.

Also, generally, talk can get around about who you were ever with and it is doubtful OP was screwing around with church people as she kept it secret.

I still think the larger issue is how it is affecting her and her marriage.

Needs to come out to him but she needs to be healthy and solid about it as well.


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> The referred-to snobbism was in reference to the "we still have morals, the rest of you don't" attitude. That smug air of superiority that comes with knowing that only you and your fellow believers have the answers. That the rest of the world is going to hell in a hand basket because we no longer value a pure-as-the-driven-snow bride.


I believe that everyone is free to live the way they choose, but I am not going to compromise my values or beliefs just because others do. Marrying someone who doesn't share our own values and standards would be a bad idea.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> I believe that everyone is free to live the way they choose, but I am not going to compromise my values or beliefs just because others do. Marrying someone who doesn't share our own values and standards would be a bad idea.


Most of us don't particularly care what you do with your own life.

People get their hackles up when you go out of your way to repeatedly show your disdain for their choices based on different value systems.


----------



## Adelais

Cletus said:


> The referred-to snobbism was in reference to the "we still have morals, the rest of you don't" attitude. 1. That smug air of superiority that comes with knowing that only you and your fellow believers have the answers. *2. That the rest of the world is going to hell in a hand basket because we no longer value a pure-as-the-driven-snow bride.*


1. Doesn't everyone have the answers that work for them? You seem to think that there is something wrong with Christians having answers that work for them. 

I don't know how many times I've read male posters on TAM say they would never date, and would discourage anyone else from dating any woman who is an older virgin, because she will most certainly, (in their smug air of superiority) have sexual hangups in marriage. 

2. No one said that. You made that up. That philosophy doesn't even come out of the Christian Bible. The Bride you may be referring to are the people who, although being sinners in their own lives, believed in Jesus, loved their neighbors as best they could in this fallen world, and loved God. The Bride is not referring to people who never did anything wrong in their lives, including having sex before marriage.


----------



## 269370

Rhubarb said:


> Well apparently you think less popular = more outdated. So say Islam is not outdated while Jainism is. Likewise abstaining from sex before marriage is outdated since it's less popular. That was your claim wasn't it?


Not sure I should be engaging in intellectual masturbation so late at night but here we go...

Islam itself is clearly not outdated, as far as 'popularity' is concerned. However some of the beliefs clearly are, since nobody is practicing them (throwing gays off the roof and cutting off hand for stealing etc).
I am sure you knew what I was getting at?? 
Marrying virgins is a nice little (utopian) dream. And I am happy I got to dream part of it, losing virginities to each other (myself and wife). Even though it didn't happen after we got married.



Rhubarb said:


> I think that puts you in a small minority of guys. Wanting to know if your wife has been faithful is certainly not outdated even by your standards.


Outdated or not here is besides the point. 'Wanting to know that my wife has been faithful' is one thing: what I was saying is that I would *still* want to know that she was faithful, even if she wasn't, because now we have kids. Because once I know that she wasn't, I couldn't remain with her. And it would be terrible for the kids. I know it's tortured logic, but I feel that the need for the family to remain together (for the benefit of the kids), should trump my need to *know* that my wife was in fact unfaithful (which she wasn't. As far as I know :scratchhead: ).

I know it sounds insane, even to me, while I am writing it.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> I can regale you for hours on the possible negative outcomes when you marry someone with whom you are sexually incompatible. If sex before marriage ain't your thing, no problem. But I for one, having gained *considerable* wisdom on the matter, would never do so again.


Yeah but there are just as many who post on here an talk about how compatible they seemed when they were dating only for it to change with marriage or age. I just think this kind of thing is hard and you need both people who are willing to work on it. Even more importantly two people who see the importance in it. I find the thing that is common in all the people who have this problem in their marriage is one partner who doesn't think it is as important as the other does. You need both people who see their sex life like growing a garden, not running a garden stand. To me that quality is more important then if you have the same exact desire level. Or if you instinctively know what buttons to push. I think if you find two people who feel this way and they can grow into great sex partners.


----------



## Adelais

Cletus said:


> Most of us don't particularly care what you do with your own life.
> 
> People get their hackles up when you go out of your way to repeatedly show your disdain for their choices based on different value systems.


I didn't pick up on any disdain in her posts. The only disdain I saw was in your posts toward her, me and Christians.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

So OP, are you going to tell him or what? You have a religious war going on here with over 300 posts of Saint's vs Sinners taking the moral high (or low) ground over your eternal soul and earthly pleasure. What's it gonna be?


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> Yeah but there are just as many who post on here an talk about how compatible they seemed when they were dating only for it to change with marriage or age.


As I have said a gazillion times - 

Sex before marriage does not inoculate you from future incompatibility. Sex before marriages allows you discover current sexual incompatibility. And since incompatibility rarely resolves itself later on in marriage, it should be discovered before a divorce is necessary. 

It cannot tell you what your future will be, but it can surely tell you your present. 

I'm not for rampant meaningless hookup sex. But I am 150% for discovering this marriage altering problem before the ring goes on the finger.


----------



## Cletus

Araucaria said:


> 1. Doesn't everyone have the answers that work for them? You seem to think that there is something wrong with Christians having answers that work for them.




Christians may do whatever they like. I was one, once. I like being told that I'm now immoral and depraved about as much as you like being told that you're outdated.


----------



## 269370

Really? You are comparing OP's active sexual life to an axe-murdering drug-dealing pedophile? Hmmm.
Of course I would be a bit surprised if I found out my wife was all of those things. But that's not the same if I found out that she slept with many guys before me all of a sudden. I wouldn't like it for sure (and that's because I have my own prejudices which I try not to influence my thinking on this which is hard).
I think your comparison is somewhat offensive. Not sure if you noticed..



Araucaria said:


> So with your thinking, if a person is looking for a partner who is law abiding and "vanilla" and they meet someone who pretended to be vanilla, but really were an axe murdering, drug dealing pedophile, who paid for their crimes and spent time in prison for it, then the person who wanted a vanilla spouse is the one with a hang up if they are upset when they find out several years later. Personally, if I found out my husband was a "recovered" axe murdering, drug dealing pedophile, I would be very turned off and grossed out. I'd probably seek a divorce, even if they paid for their crime and were no longer like that.
> 
> Everyone has the right to decide how much baggage they want to deal with in their potential future spouse's prior life. You are judging people just because you have different sexual mores. I'm sure there are issues you wouldn't tolerate in a potential spouse's past, depending on what they were.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

WTF?


----------



## 269370

Of course honesty is better but why should the past be such a big deal? From your post, it sounds like you almost had to apologise to your wife that you had slept with other women before you met her. (Or that she judged you by calling you names). This also doesn't seem right to me.
You shouldn't be hiding your past but it shouldn't be made into such a big deal nor should one be judged for it. Inevitably it will happen I guess since it's such an intimate thing.




JayDee7 said:


> Truth and honesty are usually the best option when communicating with your spouse, even if it’s not easy. I wonder why that principle does not apply in matters of sexual history for so many.
> I’ve been honest with my wife even when I would have rather not been. She has been honest with me, as far as I know, and nothing in 20 years has told me otherwise.
> 
> Just a few years ago my wife had a new friend on Facebook, an old high school friend. That woman was commenting on my wife’s posts and pictures and I noticed it. It was a woman I dated for a couple months when I was 19, and I did the deed with her back then. I did not know that my foe knew her and I had forgot about her until I saw her comments on Facebook and remembered her. We even went to a dinner party and she was there with her husband, and I had to sit there and her husband kept trying to be friendly with me and the woman gave me a big hug and a look. My wife and her talked for a bit that night but my wife was more engaged in conversation with the hostess.
> I told my wife, I had to. It was strange to me that the woman would be commenting on pics of us and our family, being friendly with us, and just awkward, and my wife and her reconnecting. My wife needed to know I had dated that woman when she was a 18 and we had sex. It was not easy to confess and my wife was visibly hurt by the news. I apologized and told her that I thought she should know. She was glad I told her and was upset I took as long as I did to tell her, about a month since the FB comments till the dinner party. I told her it was such an awkward thing that I didn’t want to mention it but they had reconnected and were likely going to meet up again so I wanted to be the one to tell her and not the friend. She asked me if I had dated any one else she knows and I confessed to another girl from her high school who she remembered but is not in contact with and another one of her friends who I had talked with on the phone and went out with but never did anything with. She was shocked at first, but within minutes she was normal again and called me some names, in a playful way, but she forgave me when I asked her to.
> Thing is, it’s just better to be honest. Even when you know that honesty is crappy.


----------



## oldshirt

I think people (including myself a couple times) are making too big of a deal over whether her H will leave her or whether he will forgive her or not 

(keeping in mind that forgiveness does not always equal staying married, and staying married does not equal forgiveness )

As I stated in my first couple posts, my concern isn't him leaving her per se.

if you read her other posts, there are other things taking place here than her simply not checking off his virgin bride box. 

My concern here is that her playing chameleon and Shape-Shifting into what she thought he wanted, that what she has actually done is hooked herself up with someone incompatible. 

Although now she states that these other guys "used her", we have to assume these were not instances of rape and that she had sex with them because they turned her on and she wanted to.

So in other words, the other guys tripped her trigger but with her H she had to turn off her sexual switch and she Shape-Shifted to virgin church girl with him. 

Whether he chooses to remain married or not after finding this out is only one piece of a very complex and convoluted puzzle. 

They may or may not even be a compatible match to begin with. She may win the forgiveness battle but lose the compatibility war.

Them remaining together may not be the victory here.

Until she can become her own person and make her own choices based on her own temperments, values and interests, this is all just spitting in the wind. 

all these theological debates have no merit if they aren't a good match to begin with.


----------



## Nucking Futs

inmyprime said:


> Not sure I should be engaging in intellectual masturbation so late at night but here we go...
> 
> Islam itself is clearly not outdated, as far as 'popularity' is concerned. *However some of the beliefs clearly are, since nobody is practicing them (throwing gays off the roof* and cutting off hand for stealing etc).
> I am sure you knew what I was getting at??
> Marrying virgins is a nice little (utopian) dream. And I am happy I got to dream part of it, losing virginities to each other (myself and wife). Even though it didn't happen after we got married.
> 
> 
> 
> Outdated or not here is besides the point. 'Wanting to know that my wife has been faithful' is one thing: what I was saying is that I would *still* want to know that she was faithful, even if she wasn't, because now we have kids. Because once I know that she wasn't, I couldn't remain with her. And it would be terrible for the kids. I know it's tortured logic, but I feel that the need for the family to remain together (for the benefit of the kids), should trump my need to *know* that my wife was in fact unfaithful (which she wasn't. As far as I know :scratchhead: ).
> 
> I know it sounds insane, even to me, while I am writing it.


If you think that's not still happening you need to broaden your news sources.


----------



## TAMAT

JustTheWife,

One other important question to ask yourself, if you are still reading, is are you more attracted to the bad boys who used you, than you are to the nice guy you married?

I believe from what you wrote that the man you married has all the right virtues, but many times and for many reasons the person who is best for us fails to ignite our passion. Our animal desires can be at odds with our personal aspirations. 

Tamat


----------



## Cletus

JustTheWife said:


> The marriage would be over if i ever told him. No question.





oldshirt said:


> I think people (including myself a couple times) are making too big of a deal over whether her H will leave her or whether he will forgive her or not


Are you sure we're making too big a deal of it?


----------



## 269370

Nope, that's not the part that I pointed out to be manifestation of snobbism. Maybe try again, before calling me prejudiced.



Araucaria said:


> You think it is snobbism for a person to decide they don't want to have sex with anyone before marriage and to only date people she knows will support her conviction???? I call it wisdom and self respecting.
> 
> I couldn't count how many times I've read male comments on TAM that if a woman won't have sex with them by the 2nd or 3rd date that they dump them. Yet they also dump women who have sex too soon. They encourage each other to date (and bed) lots of women.
> 
> It might surprise you that many beautiful and smart Christian women don't want to be "bed" and a mere notch on a man's bedpost, but want to find a chaste, sexy, self controlled, respectful and self respecting guy to marry and have passionate hot sex with.
> 
> You are very judgmental, inmyprime. You have a lot of stereotypes and prejudice against Christians.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

I spend much of my day working on my computer and can easily check in on TAM. This thread is moving so fast that every 5 minutes there are 10 more posts about all kinds of off-the-wall-BS. Pedophiles and axe-murderers? All the woman did wrong was NOT tell the cute christian boy that she banged a couple guys when she was single.

BIG F-in WHOOP

As i've said in a few posts on this thread - she was WRONG to not tell him the truth, knowing his strong Christian beliefs, before they got serious (engaged, married). This news, if she hasn't told him yet, will rock his world and "maybe" end their marriage.

Unless he's a strong man. That loves his wife. And has Christian love and forgiveness in his heart. Over such a (relatively) small trespass, it would be un-Christian to not seek a unifying solution for them to heal and strengthen their marriage.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

And maybe he could read a book or two because it sounds like he's a terrible lover.


----------



## 269370

No, I don't actually. Nor do I know many Christians who actually practice it. But I don't think abstaining from sex till marriage is the most important value to aim for. Abstaining from sex with other people while being married would be higher on my list...(and harder to achieve for many marriages).
I wonder how many Christians telling me that I am 'prejudiced' only had sex with just one person that they loved? (which I did, as a non-Christian) :scratchhead:



Diana7 said:


> Its just that I don't know anyone else apart from some Christians who don't have sex before marriage do you? Going by the many things I have read here on this forum, as well as the people I meet in real life, most are happy to have sex very soon into a relationship. In fact they expect it and will often put pressure on someone who says no.
> Thats one of the many reasons why I wouldn't date or marry someone who didn't share my faith.


----------



## Adelais

Maxwedge 413 said:


> So OP, are you going to tell him or what? You have a religious war going on here with over 300 posts of Saint's vs Sinners taking the moral high (or low) ground over your eternal soul and earthly pleasure. What's it gonna be?


I don't believe it is a "sin" to have sex before marriage. I just believe it is better, for a myriad of reasons, to wait.

Just because food tastes so good doesn't mean we should eat all we want whenever we want. It would be bad for our health.

Similarly, I believe it is not wise to engage in sex before marriage. Once married, enjoy all the sex you want with your spouse, but keep the lines of communication open, so you can talk about it as it changes depending on what is gong on in your lives.


----------



## 269370

How do they save themselves *during* the marriage, from cheating or being cheated on, is more my question...
And testimonials or no testimonials but Christians are hardly less immune than anyone else. And this is no prejudice:

https://www.thoughtco.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

"Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America
Why Do Conservative Christian Defenders of Marriage Get Divorced More Often?"



ConanHub said:


> Actually a lot of church people give something called testimonies and I've seen many couples encourage singles to wait for marriage by sharing their testimony about how they stayed virgins until married, even giving tips on what to avoid and how to successfully save yourself for marriage.
> 
> Happens a lot.
> 
> Also, generally, talk can get around about who you were ever with and it is doubtful OP was screwing around with church people as she kept it secret.
> 
> I still think the larger issue is how it is affecting her and her marriage.
> 
> Needs to come out to him but she needs to be healthy and solid about it as well.


----------



## Adelais

Maxwedge 413 said:


> And maybe he could read a book or two because it sounds like he's a terrible lover.


Where the heck did you come up with that? Please provide a quote by OP that suggests that.


----------



## 269370

Maxwedge 413 said:


> So OP, are you going to tell him or what? You have a religious war going on here with over 300 posts of Saint's vs Sinners taking the moral high (or low) ground over your eternal soul and earthly pleasure. What's it gonna be?


Haha. I re-read the thread (oh my boring life). It seems to me she already made up her mind before posting here, given the subsequent responses.

There's a small chance that she just wanted to test what it would be like to tell the 'truth' and the overwhelming majority 'judged' her (in her mind) so there's now even less chance she is going to tell her husband the truth! The irony...

I tried to make a point (as did most other people actually) that there's absolutely nothing wrong with exploring her sexuality before settling down with one person however she chose to refer to herself as a **** in the thread (as in, she said that someone called her that, however I don't think anyone actually did, except herself, later on). Perhaps she needs to punish herself for something she doesn't need to be punished for at all. (nor do I honestly think will her husband leave her because of it).

It's very strange, this thread...I hope they both work it out.


----------



## Adelais

inmyprime said:


> I wonder how many Christians telling me that I am 'prejudiced' only had sex with just one person that they loved? (which I did, as a non-Christian) :scratchhead:


If it matters so much to you, why don't you start asking people? Or would that be creepy?


----------



## sokillme

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I spend much of my day working on my computer and can easily check in on TAM. This thread is moving so fast that every 5 minutes there are 10 more posts about all kinds of off-the-wall-BS. Pedophiles and axe-murderers? All the woman did wrong was NOT tell the cute christian boy that she banged a couple guys when she was single.
> 
> BIG F-in WHOOP
> 
> As i've said in a few posts on this thread - she was WRONG to not tell him the truth, knowing his strong Christian beliefs, before they got serious (engaged, married). This news, if she hasn't told him yet, will rock his world and "maybe" end their marriage.
> 
> Unless he's a strong man. That loves his wife. And has Christian love and forgiveness in his heart. Over such a (relatively) small trespass, it would be un-Christian to not seek a unifying solution for them to heal and strengthen their marriage.


If it's a big f-nn whoop then why not tell him. Right, because it's not at least in his eyes which is what matters in this case.


----------



## 269370

Nucking Futs said:


> If you think that's not still happening you need to broaden your news sources.


I meant in the civilised world. At least it's not that accepted anymore. In other words, *outdated*. i didn't say it isn't happening anywhere else.


----------



## 269370

Araucaria said:


> If it matters so much to you, why don't you start asking people? Or would that be creepy?


A bit :nerd:

I am using the tactic as suggested on the thread higher up: volunteer your information first, then wait what everybody else says....Since no one said anything to the contrary, I am assuming everyone has been at it like rabbits with a gazillion partners before marrying their Christian partner and proclaiming their amazing Christian values. >:wink2:


----------



## Adelais

inmyprime said:


> A bit :nerd:
> 
> I am using the tactic as suggested on the thread higher up: volunteer your information first, then wait what everybody else says....Since no one said anything to the contrary, I am assuming everyone has been at it like rabbits with a gazillion partners before marrying their Christian partner and proclaiming their amazing Christian values. >:wink2:


My husband was a virgin at 29 when we met. I stopped sleeping with people after I became a Christian. Diane7 waited until marriage.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Araucaria said:


> Where the heck did you come up with that? Please provide a quote by OP that suggests that.


 Look up OP's other posts on other threads. His religious beliefs and convictions don't allow him to enjoy sex. And therefore neither should his partner. Sex (to him) is a sacred ritual to create children to further serve God. It is not an act to be enjoyed for the flesh. OP - please correct me if I misunderstood your posts.

This man cannot (or will not) enjoy sex. If he doesn't think he is entitled to enjoy it, why should SHE be able to?


----------



## 269370

Araucaria said:


> My husband was a virgin at 29 when we met. I stopped sleeping with people after I became a Christian. Diane7 waited until marriage.


Yeah that's still no fully formed cookie  
Find me two Christians where both saved themselves for the one person they loved (each other) then we can talk  And I don't mean the hypothetical ones, where they said they did but they actually didn't...
(Still, well done. What made you become Christian/stop sleeping with people? Your husband?)


----------



## 269370

Oh no. Dammit, I had hopes for the two.
On the other hand, maybe he will find it easier to forgive her. He might think she didn't enjoy any of it as well.
Her soul searching whether to tell him or not is probably an outcry for help rooted in the frustration of the marriage (and the continuous pressure she feels of how other people *expect* her to be, including her husband).



Maxwedge 413 said:


> Look up OP's other posts on other threads. His religious beliefs and convictions don't allow him to enjoy sex. And therefore neither should his partner. Sex (to him) is a sacred ritual to create children to further serve God. It is not an act to be enjoyed for the flesh. OP - please correct me if I misunderstood your posts.
> 
> This man cannot (or will not) enjoy sex. If he doesn't think he is entitled to enjoy it, why should SHE be able to?


----------



## Adelais

inmyprime said:


> Yeah that's still no fully formed cookie
> Find me two Christians where both saved themselves for the one person they loved (each other) then we can talk  And I don't mean the hypothetical ones, where they said they did but they actually didn't...
> (Still, well done. What made you become Christian/stop sleeping with people? Your husband?)


I personally know 3 young Christian couples who were very proud to let people know that they not only saved sex for their wedding night but gave each other their first kiss when they said their vows. They abstained because they wanted to make sure their spouse was the first person they were intimate with. They were mature enough to know that even engaged people break up, so they waited until the rings were on their fingers. (In all cases they asked the Pastor to tell the guests so they could encourage other single people that it is possible to wait.)

I haven't followed up on the quality of sex (not my business) but from my experience with my husband, I'm sure they are having a great time, and they are refining their skills with each other.

The only way a person would know the information you want is if they share it on their own volition and usually for a reason, which the three couples I mentioned did.


----------



## oldshirt

The OP has used the term that she was "used" and everyone has fallen in to lock-step talking about these previous men "using" her.

Yet she has not said anything even implying her previous sexual activities were in any forced, coerced or that she was in anyway rendered incapacitated or unable to give consent.

This means we are to presume these were consensual activities and that she was attracted to these people and wanted to have sex with them. 
... At least at the time.

Coming back years later after marriage and having a guilt trip over not being a virgin bride and being worried that her H won't like it, does not necessarily spell any malfeasance on the part of the previous BFs or whatever they were. 

By her own statement, she was a #*_+ for them because that is what they wanted her to be.

Then she was a virgin church girl because that is what her H wanted.

These wild 180 degree swings of personality are not indicative of stable mental health. 

At all.

Justthewife needs help. Possibly actual mental health help in addition to IC and MC.


----------



## 269370

Nice story. The angel on my right side is telling me to say 'good for them!' and the devil on my left is asking if you could pass the sickbag...>

No, it's great if it worked for them and I always thought it might be nice (in theory) and maybe even in practice...But I still think it's a bit of a lottery.
What if you find yourself completely incompatible on your wedding night? I would want to know it beforehand. it's not because I take sex lightly, I don't (it took a year and a half for me and my wife to start sleeping with each other and it felt like a natural progression and something that strengthened the bond).



Araucaria said:


> I personally know 3 young Christian couples who were very proud to let people know that they not only saved sex for their wedding night but gave each other their first kiss when they said their vows. They abstained because they wanted to make sure their spouse was the first person they were intimate with. They were mature enough to know that even engaged people break up, so they waited until the rings were on their fingers. (In all cases they asked the Pastor to tell the guests so they could encourage other single people that it is possible to wait.)
> 
> I haven't followed up on the quality of sex (not my business) but from my experience with my husband, I'm sure they are having a great time, and they are refining their skills with each other.
> 
> The only way a person would know the information you want is if they share it on their own volition and usually for a reason, which the three couples I mentioned did.


----------



## oldshirt

Cletus said:


> Are you sure we're making too big a deal of it?


I think her H's potential reaction is just part of a bigger picture.

And just because see says he'd divorce her doesn't mean that he actually would.

There's times I think my wife will divorce me if I forget to pay the water bill one more time but she hasn't yet.

Yes, maybe he would/will. But maybe he won't.

My point is there are other issues at play here other than the theological concepts of forgives and what is vs what is not Christian.


----------



## ConanHub

inmyprime said:


> How do they save themselves *during* the marriage, from cheating or being cheated on, is more my question...
> And testimonials or no testimonials but Christians are hardly less immune than anyone else. And this is no prejudice:
> 
> https://www.thoughtco.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494
> 
> "Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America
> Why Do Conservative Christian Defenders of Marriage Get Divorced More Often?"


Definitely fodder for a different thread.


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> Most of us don't particularly care what you do with your own life.
> 
> People get their hackles up when you go out of your way to repeatedly show your disdain for their choices based on different value systems.


As I have said many times, people are free to make their own choices. However lying and deception concerning these choices we have made is a terrible idea. 
Honesty is vital if you are going to get married. Starting a marriage with such a level of deception is asking for trouble. I am very honest person, also very open about my mistakes and weaknesses. I couldn't be married to someone who wasn't that way.


----------



## Diana7

Araucaria said:


> I personally know 3 young Christian couples who were very proud to let people know that they not only saved sex for their wedding night but gave each other their first kiss when they said their vows. They abstained because they wanted to make sure their spouse was the first person they were intimate with. They were mature enough to know that even engaged people break up, so they waited until the rings were on their fingers. (In all cases they asked the Pastor to tell the guests so they could encourage other single people that it is possible to wait.)
> 
> I haven't followed up on the quality of sex (not my business) but from my experience with my husband, I'm sure they are having a great time, and they are refining their skills with each other.
> 
> The only way a person would know the information you want is if they share it on their own volition and usually for a reason, which the three couples I mentioned did.


Must admit that we didn't go round telling anyone, although people knew we weren't living together so what they made of that I don't know. One older relative said well how will you know if you are compatible? I thought, well its not an option for us firstly, and secondly we have communicated in depth about sex and intimacy. I knew we were compatible. 
I did tell my adult children (two of whom were still at home when we met), and one close friend who asked if we were having sex, but it wasn't something we broadcast. Its not a bad thing do though, to encourage others to do the same as you mentioned, especially among the young where the pressures to have lots of sex with lots of people are great.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Definitely fodder for a different thread.


Thats interesting, because of the countless divorces that I know of, hardly any were between 2 Christians. I would say about 2 or 3% of the hundreds of Christians I know are divorced. My husbands first marriage is one of the very few divorces that I know of that was between 2 believers. I think the numbers will vary as to whether those asked are nominal believers who may go to church twice a year, or those who actually practice their faith and pray and read the Bible and live that life fully.
I am in the Uk though, only 5% go to church here.


----------



## Diana7

Araucaria said:


> LOL Why do you assume that? Most men, even Christian men don't ask that question. I agree it would be creepy if they did.
> 
> Most likely, her husband told her *he* was a virgin and why, and then waited for her response. That is when she should have told him the truth.
> 
> If a man asked one of my daughters if she was a virgin (my daughters are Christians, and virgins) I hope she would tell him it is none of his business and that she is offended his is asking such a personal question. I would suggest she not date him again.
> 
> If on the other hand, he told her he is saving himself for marriage, and waited for her response, she might tell him her beliefs and sexual history (or lack of sexual history.)


I think this is something that will come up after a time of dating. I knew pretty soon that my husband had only had sex with his first wife, we were both very open with each other because we very soon knew that we wanted to marry. I am not sure if we asked each other or if it just came up. I don't think my husband asked me, but I knew it was something that was important for us. However it does need to come up at some point. How that happens will vary depending on the couple.


----------



## Rhubarb

inmyprime said:


> Haha. I re-read the thread (oh my boring life). It seems to me she already made up her mind before posting here, given the subsequent responses.
> 
> There's a small chance that she just wanted to test what it would be like to tell the 'truth' and the overwhelming majority 'judged' her (in her mind) so there's now even less chance she is going to tell her husband the truth! The irony...
> 
> I tried to make a point (as did most other people actually) that there's absolutely nothing wrong with exploring her sexuality before settling down with one person however she chose to refer to herself as a **** in the thread (as in, she said that someone called her that, however I don't think anyone actually did, except herself, later on). Perhaps she needs to punish herself for something she doesn't need to be punished for at all. (nor do I honestly think will her husband leave her because of it).
> 
> It's very strange, this thread...I hope they both work it out.


I agree, it seems she had her mind made up. Not sure what the point was. As I said I personalty had no problem with her previous sexual encounters. I'm not a hard core Christian. I'm not a Christian at all. However my arguments aren't based on my belief system. While her history woudn't be so important to me, it seems it is to her husband, and I think he has a right to make an informed decision. If they had never discussed it I would say she has no obligation to say anything now. However she directly lied to him which is a different matter. Yes, it was a mistake but I don't think it's unforgivable. As I said if she was my wife I would forgive her (but again I'm not religious) since I don't think the transgression is worth ruining a marriage over. However she should at least give him the truth. Maybe she could sugar coat it a bit, but tell him. I think I'm done on this.


----------



## Diana7

Rhubarb said:


> I agree, it seems she had her mind made up. Not sure what the point was. As I said I personalty had no problem with her previous sexual encounters. I'm not a hard core Christian. I'm not a Christian at all. However my arguments aren't based on my belief system. While her history woudn't be so important to me, it seems it is to her husband, and I think he has a right to make an informed decision. If they had never discussed it I would say she has no obligation to say anything now. However she directly lied to him which is a different matter. Yes, it was a mistake but I don't think it's unforgivable. As I said if she was my wife I would forgive her (but again I'm not religious) since I don't think the transgression is worth ruining a marriage over. However she should at least give him the truth. Maybe she could sugar coat it a bit, but tell him. I think I'm done on this.


I agree, maybe she was hoping that everyone here would say that it was ok to carry on lying and deceiving her husband. I don't think she has the guts to tell him to be honest, but its the right thing. 
I honestly don't think he would end the marriage, but it would certainly shatter him and shatter the trust.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator warning*

There is a section on TAM for debating religious topics.

This isn't it. 

Please, stop with the threadjacks.


----------



## JustTheWife

MJJEAN said:


> Marriage under false pretenses defined legally as fraud: one spouse makes false statements, and the other spouse agrees to marry based on a belief that the statements were true. False pretenses defined by my branch of Christianity: intentionally misrepresenting or concealing information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision.
> 
> Which is exactly what happened here. OP knew that marrying a virgin, as he himself was virgin, was important to her husband back when they were just friends. She knew her history could be a dealbreaker for him, so she deliberately concealed it from him. OP didn't tell her husband the truth nor did she tell him that her sexual history was not his business. She specifically lied. That is absolutely false pretenses.


Well I do feel guilty about it for the reason that you say. However, sometimes I think that it's ok because it shouldn't matter. I like to read books about court cases and lawyers! I mean part of me things it's not material. Sure he it's important to him. but I do love Christian values and I do try to live by them as much as all Christians. Is there any physical difference because of what I did? Like I said, i got tested. Lots of people having sex the first time don't bleed or whatever and I don't think you can say that this is some kind of thing that he would want or "deserve". I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.

So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.

And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing? 

Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision? 

Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


----------



## Malaise

It's not the sex. It's the lies.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> Well I do feel guilty about it for the reason that you say. However, sometimes I think that it's ok because it shouldn't matter. I like to read books about court cases and lawyers! I mean part of me things it's not material. Sure he it's important to him. but I do love Christian values and I do try to live by them as much as all Christians. Is there any physical difference because of what I did? Like I said, i got tested. Lots of people having sex the first time don't bleed or whatever and I don't think you can say that this is some kind of thing that he would want or "deserve". I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.
> 
> So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.
> 
> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing?
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


You robbed him of the uniqueness of you both being your only partners. You don't get it because it's not something YOU cared about. But he did, it's why he waited, I know it's not an easy thing to do. 

You also robbed him of having an authentic partner. You robbed him of having an honest sexual relationship. You robbed him of having a partner who trusts enough to be honest with him. For me that's a lot. I get that you don't care, but that is not the point, he cared. By the way you may not see it but all of this stuff you robbed from yourself. You are still doing that. 

It was not your choice to make for him if it is necessarily or not. You know what he may have come to the same opinion but you never gave him the chance. 

I actually don't believe this post anyway, you know what you did. If you really believed what you say you wouldn't feel guilty.


----------



## uhtred

OP - I'm glad you are still here.

I think its complicated. People will say that the issue was "lying" not "sex", but I expect that the reaction would not be nearly so extreme if the issue didn't revolve around sex. 

I think the fundamental issue is that sexual activity matters very much to some people and not at all to others. Personally I'm in the "doesn't matter" camp - so much so that I cannot imagine someone caring - but intellectually I know that they do. Some care very much.

I find the caring distasteful, it seems to hearken back to the days when a woman's value was in her virginity. OTOH - unpleasant as I find that concept, it is one that has been held in a lot of societies for a lot of history. 

So what to you (or me) is a private and unimportant issue in your past, is to others something of great importance. It is not just some fringe group, but a significant fraction of the population. 

In an ideal world you would not have married a man who cared about this because your world views are so different. Ideally you would have told him so that there wasn't this issue - minor to you, and maybe catastrophic to him, hanging over you.

No time machines so you can't fix the past. You can listen to what people say but in the end only you know your situation, and your husbands feelings, so only you can decide on the best course. 

If I had a secret that I thought would end my marriage, I would not tell it because I honestly believe that my wife is happier with me than without me. As for the reverse - it is difficult to imagine anything my wife could tell me about something that happened long ago that I would not easily forgive. 


As for morality / religion- religion can be used to justify any action, so I don't think it provides any guidance here. 








JustTheWife said:


> Well I do feel guilty about it for the reason that you say. However, sometimes I think that it's ok because it shouldn't matter. I like to read books about court cases and lawyers! I mean part of me things it's not material. Sure he it's important to him. but I do love Christian values and I do try to live by them as much as all Christians. Is there any physical difference because of what I did? Like I said, i got tested. Lots of people having sex the first time don't bleed or whatever and I don't think you can say that this is some kind of thing that he would want or "deserve". I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.
> 
> So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.
> 
> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing?
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


----------



## Thor

JustTheWife said:


> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing?
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


You're not the same person you would have been had you been a virgin when you met your husband.

As to shame, you should not feel shame unless you did things you knew were wrong yet still did them for bad reasons. This is why I have said you should seek qualified secular therapy. You can look back at things you did and feel like you were dumb back then, and you can wish you had made different choices. You can regret what you did. We all regret things, but we didn't know better back then and we made some bad decisions. 

But shame? That isn't healthy. And it is impacting your marriage today as a result.

All actions have consequences. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes it isn't really fair. Yet there are consequences. You not being a virgin carries the consequences of not being a marriage candidate for some people. Choosing to drink alcohol, or having committed a minor crime in the past, or any number of other things will disqualify a person from being marriage material to some people.

You're trying to argue your husband didn't physically feel anything different the first time with you than if you were a virgin, so he wasn't deprived of anything. You're arguing your past experiences don't change anything in your marriage with your husband. But this is all a rationalization that somehow you shouldn't be subject to consequences for your past behavior. You know, and we all know, your husband would not have chosen to continue to date you had he known early on about your history.

How can a person make an informed decision if you have deprived them of the very information they would base their decision on? Can an employer make an informed decision on who to hire as their accountant if the candidate hides their history of embezzlement?

How about a thought experiment. Imagine you tell your husband you've heard whispers that there's a wife in your church who was promiscuous before she met her husband. This is a couple that comes across as solidly in line with your church teachings. And the husband believes she was a virgin when they met because the woman still professes today how they were both virgins until their wedding night.

What do you thing your husband would say about that woman's deception? What do you think he'd say about the husband's position? Would he say the other husband should be told? Would he say the other husband has been terribly wronged by the original lie and the continuing lie?


----------



## TAMAT

JustTheWife,

If you intend to take this secret to the grave, then this guilt will never leave you, and if your H does have an affair even an emotional affair you will feel less justified in objecting to his behavior. 

Another issue is that you are removing your Hs choice from him, if worst case he wants to divorce you, then you have saved him from finding out years from now when he will have spent more years of his life in a relationship he would never have entered to begin with. 

If you do confess to him and do so without minimization, excuses or omission I believe he will forgive you, and he will forgive the real you.

Tamat


----------



## MJJEAN

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.
> 
> So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.
> 
> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history.
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


It's not a physical thing. It's deeper than that. He wanted to marry a woman that was Christian AND equally committed to chastity until marriage. He wanted a woman that had the self discipline and moral fortitude to stand by her beliefs in the face of worldly temptations. That is the kind of person he wanted to be raising his children and sharing his life into old age. It's not about the sex you had so much as what that says about who you are as a person. You weren't equally committed to your faith. You didn't have the will, self discipline, or moral fortitude to stay chaste. No judgement, just fact. You robbed him of his right to choose what kind of person he'd marry by lying about your past, your experiences, how they shaped you, and you certainly never gave him the opportunity to truly get to know you before committing his life to you.

He wanted to experience his first sex with a wife who was also experiencing her first sex. You robbed him of the white wedding night he had sacrificed, waited, planned for, and had every right to expect as a Christian man who'd remained true to his beliefs. That's a pretty big deal.

The problem is the lie you told and continue to tell every day that he believes he married a virgin when, in fact, he did not.

You are who you are. The truth is, though, you aren't the same person you'd be without the sexual history because, as I said before, those experiences changed you just like all of our experiences change us.

I don't know if you've been reading my posts and remember which are me, but I was quite promiscuous as a teen and 20-something. Believe me, no judgement here for the sex. I am the last sinner to be casting stones. I was casually dating a guy I tolerated at 16, got pregnant at 17, had the baby at 18, got married at 19, and it was a disaster. ExH was abusive, chronically immature and irresponsible, lied about lying, and would screw anything that would stand still long enough. My response to his bs was "Game on!" and I also had affairs. 

I met a man when I was 24, fell in love at first sight, and we started seeing each other. It got serious fast. I wanted to make sure we were compatible and that there wouldn't be any nasty surprises. So, we had "the talk" about our sexual histories, our beliefs, how our experiences shaped us, and so on. Basically, all cards on the table, here I am, take it or leave it.

When I had "the talk" with the only man I have ever loved, I had to fess up to about 30 sex partners, most of which were affairs I had during my first marriage. Of course I was terrified he'd run in the other direction. Thankfully, he didn't. We've been together 18 years and married for 15 of those. Honesty was hard, but so worth it to be able to have a "say anything" unfiltered relationship with a man who knows the depths of me and I him, warts and all.

I don't think you should feel shame for your sexual history. I think you should feel a very deep shame for lying to your husband about your history and allowing him to marry you before telling the truth. The good news is that you can rectify the situation as much as possible without a time machine by being honest now.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MJJEAN said:


> It's not a physical thing. It's deeper than that. He wanted to marry a woman that was Christian AND equally committed to chastity until marriage. He wanted a woman that had the self discipline and moral fortitude to stand by her beliefs in the face of worldly temptations. That is the kind of person he wanted to be raising his children and sharing his life into old age. It's not about the sex you had so much as what that says about who you are as a person. You weren't equally committed to your faith. You didn't have the will, self discipline, or moral fortitude to stay chaste. No judgement, just fact. You robbed him of his right to choose what kind of person he'd marry by lying about your past, your experiences, how they shaped you, and you certainly never gave him the opportunity to truly get to know you before committing his life to you.
> 
> He wanted to experience his first sex with a wife who was also experiencing her first sex. You robbed him of the white wedding night he had sacrificed, waited, planned for, and had every right to expect as a Christian man who'd remained true to his beliefs. That's a pretty big deal.
> 
> The problem is the lie you told and continue to tell every day that he believes he married a virgin when, in fact, he did not.
> 
> You are who you are. The truth is, though, you aren't the same person you'd be without the sexual history because, as I said before, those experiences changed you just like all of our experiences change us.
> 
> I don't know if you've been reading my posts and remember which are me, but I was quite promiscuous as a teen and 20-something. Believe me, no judgement here for the sex. I am the last sinner to be casting stones. I was casually dating a guy I tolerated at 16, got pregnant at 17, had the baby at 18, got married at 19, and it was a disaster. ExH was abusive, chronically immature and irresponsible, lied about lying, and would screw anything that would stand still long enough. My response to his bs was "Game on!" and I also had affairs.
> 
> I met a man when I was 24, fell in love at first sight, and we started seeing each other. It got serious fast. I wanted to make sure we were compatible and that there wouldn't be any nasty surprises. So, we had "the talk" about our sexual histories, our beliefs, how our experiences shaped us, and so on. Basically, all cards on the table, here I am, take it or leave it.
> 
> When I had "the talk" with the only man I have ever loved, I had to fess up to about 30 sex partners, most of which were affairs I had during my first marriage. Of course I was terrified he'd run in the other direction. Thankfully, he didn't. We've been together 18 years and married for 15 of those. Honesty was hard, but so worth it to be able to have a "say anything" unfiltered relationship with a man who knows the depths of me and I him, warts and all.
> 
> I don't think you should feel shame for your sexual history. I think you should feel a very deep shame for lying to your husband about your history and allowing him to marry you before telling the truth. The good news is that you can rectify the situation as much as possible without a time machine by being honest now.


Most thorough, thoughtful... best post yet.


----------



## Cletus

TAMAT said:


> JustTheWife,
> Another issue is that you are removing your Hs choice from him, if worst case he wants to divorce you, then you have saved him from finding out years from now when he will have spent more years of his life in a relationship he would never have entered to begin with.


And saved herself from wasting a marriage on a complete ass.

Any man who would retroactively decide that his wife wasn't worth the having after 5, 10, or 20 years of happy marriage because of baggage that clearly did not in fact disqualify her from being a good wife is a man best relegated to the dust bin. 

So in that regard, perhaps it is in OP's best interest to tell him.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> Well I do feel guilty about it for the reason that you say. However, sometimes I think that it's ok because it shouldn't matter. I like to read books about court cases and lawyers! I mean part of me things it's not material. Sure he it's important to him. but I do love Christian values and I do try to live by them as much as all Christians. Is there any physical difference because of what I did? Like I said, i got tested. Lots of people having sex the first time don't bleed or whatever and I don't think you can say that this is some kind of thing that he would want or "deserve". I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.
> 
> So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.
> 
> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing?
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?


You ask why it matters. You just don't seem to get it. You could say that about anything. The thing is that it matters to a lot of people. It matters to those who believe its very important to wait for marriage till you have sex, and it matters to a lot of people that their spouse or future spouse doesn't lie and deceive them about something. You knew that this was important to him, and that's why you lied. You deprived him of making an informed decision as to whether he married you or not. 

If you truly want to follow God, then being honest and upfront is what you must do. I was talking to my husband about this this morning(we are both Christians) and he immediately said, she has to tell him and ask for forgiveness. Its the only way forward for you if you are genuinely wanting to live a Christian life. You have to throw yourself on his mercy. You can make all the excuses you like, try and make all the justifications you like, but you are living a lie and deceiving your husband. 

Tell him and ask for forgiveness, pray and hope that he will be able to forgive and stay with you once the shock has worn off. He may and he may not, but that is HIS choice not yours. 
Your job is to be honest and upfront and stop living this way. I think you know this is what you need to do, I hope you have the guts to do it. 
If he finds out another way(which he may well do), he is far less likely to be able to forgive and stay with you.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> OP - I'm glad you are still here.
> 
> I think its complicated. People will say that the issue was "lying" not "sex", but I expect that the reaction would not be nearly so extreme if the issue didn't revolve around sex.
> 
> I think the fundamental issue is that sexual activity matters very much to some people and not at all to others. Personally I'm in the "doesn't matter" camp - so much so that I cannot imagine someone caring - but intellectually I know that they do. Some care very much.
> 
> I find the caring distasteful, it seems to hearken back to the days when a woman's value was in her virginity. OTOH - unpleasant as I find that concept, it is one that has been held in a lot of societies for a lot of history.
> 
> So what to you (or me) is a private and unimportant issue in your past, is to others something of great importance. It is not just some fringe group, but a significant fraction of the population.
> 
> In an ideal world you would not have married a man who cared about this because your world views are so different. Ideally you would have told him so that there wasn't this issue - minor to you, and maybe catastrophic to him, hanging over you.
> 
> No time machines so you can't fix the past. You can listen to what people say but in the end only you know your situation, and your husbands feelings, so only you can decide on the best course.
> 
> If I had a secret that I thought would end my marriage, I would not tell it because I honestly believe that my wife is happier with me than without me. As for the reverse - it is difficult to imagine anything my wife could tell me about something that happened long ago that I would not easily forgive.
> 
> 
> As for morality / religion- religion can be used to justify any action, so I don't think it provides any guidance here.


I think the reaction would have been just as strong if the lies had been about other important things. Say if one lied and said they wanted children when they know they didn't. Or they lied about why another marriage ended and they had actually cheated on their previous spouse and not the other way round. Or they were taking illegal drugs or had been in jail and lied about that. All such lies would have been very serious and deceptive and stopped the spouse from making an informed decision about whether to marry that person. 

Legally he may even be able to get an annulment, but I think he may well forgive and stay given lots of time.


----------



## Thor

MJJEAN said:


> The problem is the lie you told and continue to tell every day that he believes he married a virgin when, in fact, he did not.
> 
> You are who you are. The truth is, though, you aren't the same person you'd be without the sexual history because, as I said before, those experiences changed you just like all of our experiences change us.


My take is it isn't so much about virginity as it is about exclusivity. What I mean is it isn't about him possessing her as property. It is about sex within the couple being exclusive, something they only have between themselves. It is a unique bond that is part of the definition of them as a couple.

I was unintentionally a virgin when I met my future wife, not being religiously motivated to remain a virgin but coming from a time and place where opportunity was more limited. My future wife was not a virgin, which I knew about. Still, _for me_, sex within the marriage had a certain context or quality due to only ever having been with her. I revealed myself in ways nobody else had ever seen. It added a kind of specialness to the experience for me.

After the divorce, sex with other women has a decidedly different quality or context. It can never be the same again (though certainly quite good and a bonding experience).

OP's husband thinks he has this unique bond with his wife, but he doesn't. Or more precisely, she doesn't have the same kind of bond that he thinks they do. So it isn't so much her virginity as some kind of purity that is important to him today, it is that their virginity creates a unique aspect to their relationship. 

eta: This is going to be a big part of how his world suddenly seems completely different to him. It is what is going to feel like a betrayal. This is going to be a big part of him wondering who his wife is, and who she ever was. Her lack of "purity" before marriage is going to be a problem for him, but I think most humans weight more recent events more strongly than long past events. Thus he is going to be more focused on what seems a sham of a marriage currently than he is on a lack of religious purity in the distant past (how long ago was this anyway?).

Good MC is going to be necessary, and it will have to be similar to recovering from infidelity.


----------



## MJJEAN

Cletus said:


> And saved herself from wasting a marriage on a complete ass.
> 
> Any man who would retroactively decide that his wife wasn't worth the having after 5, 10, or 20 years of happy marriage because of baggage that clearly did not in fact disqualify her from being a good wife is a man best relegated to the dust bin.
> 
> So in that regard, perhaps it is in OP's best interest to tell him.


The ends justify the means? They've had what is described as a good marriage, so the big lie is justified by the result?

People generally have a list of qualities they want in their future spouse. He was a chaste Christian man looking for his female counterpart. I don't think that makes him an ass. He wanted to marry someone who was like him. Nothing wrong with that. The OP was not chaste until marriage and she was not honest about that fact. He may have been perfectly willing to accept her past and marry her, but she never gave him the chance to make an informed decision.



Diana7 said:


> It matters to those who believe its very important to wait for marriage till you have sex, and it matters to a lot of people that their spouse or future spouse doesn't lie and deceive them about something. You knew that this was important to him, and that's why you lied. You deprived him of making an informed decision as to whether he married you or not.
> 
> If you truly want to follow God, then being honest and upfront is what you must do.


This I agree with entirely.

OP, you said you were a people pleaser. As @oldshirt says, you shape shifted into what the people around you wanted you to be. Well, here's where the rubber meets the road. Are you a Christian or are you giving the faith lip service because that's what other people want you to do? If you're Christian, you have wronged him and need to confess and make amends.



Diana7 said:


> I think the reaction would have been just as strong if the lies had been about other important things. Say if one lied and said they wanted children when they know they didn't. Or they lied about why another marriage ended and they had actually cheated on their previous spouse and not the other way round. Or they were taking illegal drugs or had been in jail and lied about that. All such lies would have been very serious and deceptive and stopped the spouse from making an informed decision about whether to marry that person.
> 
> Legally he may even be able to get an annulment, but I think he may well forgive and stay given lots of time.


This is something I think many people commenting are glossing over. It's not about the virginity. It's about the misrepresentation. The lie. It doesn't matter what OP lied about so much as that it was something very important to the man she lied to in determining whether or not he would date and marry her.



Thor said:


> My take is it isn't so much about virginity as it is about exclusivity. What I mean is it isn't about him possessing her as property. It is about sex within the couple being exclusive, something they only have between themselves. It is a unique bond that is part of the definition of them as a couple.
> 
> I was unintentionally a virgin when I met my future wife, not being religiously motivated to remain a virgin but coming from a time and place where opportunity was more limited. My future wife was not a virgin, which I knew about. Still, _for me_, sex within the marriage had a certain context or quality due to only ever having been with her. I revealed myself in ways nobody else had ever seen. It added a kind of specialness to the experience for me.
> 
> After the divorce, sex with other women has a decidedly different quality or context. It can never be the same again (though certainly quite good and a bonding experience).
> 
> OP's husband thinks he has this unique bond with his wife, but he doesn't. Or more precisely, she doesn't have the same kind of bond that he thinks they do. So it isn't so much her virginity as some kind of purity that is important to him today, it is that their virginity creates a unique aspect to their relationship.


This is a more detailed version of what I was saying about the white wedding night.


----------



## Cletus

MJJEAN said:


> The ends justify the means? They've had what is described as a good marriage, so the big lie is justified by the result?


The ends do not justify the means. The ends invalidate the preconditions. 

If at the end of the day you've had a wonderful marriage with someone who did not meet your entry criteria, a smart man updates his criteria instead of ditching his marriage. A little anger, some grieving, and a display of disappointment with a warning that it wasn't a particularly moral decision at the time may well be in order - but a lack of forgiveness on his part at this point would be a much worse personality failure than the original lie, IMO. 

Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> The ends justify the means? They've had what is described as a good marriage, so the big lie is justified by the result?
> 
> People generally have a list of qualities they want in their future spouse. He was a chaste Christian man looking for his female counterpart. I don't think that makes him an ass. He wanted to marry someone who was like him. Nothing wrong with that. The OP was not chaste until marriage and she was not honest about that fact. He may have been perfectly willing to accept her past and marry her, but she never gave him the chance to make an informed decision.
> 
> 
> 
> This I agree with entirely.
> 
> OP, you said you were a people pleaser. As @oldshirt says, you shape shifted into what the people around you wanted you to be. Well, here's where the rubber meets the road. Are you a Christian or are you giving the faith lip service because that's what other people want you to do? If you're Christian, you have wronged him and need to confess and make amends.
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I think many people commenting are glossing over. It's not about the virginity. It's about the misrepresentation. The lie. It doesn't matter what OP lied about so much as that it was something very important to the man she lied to in determining whether or not he would date and marry her.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a more detailed version of what I was saying about the white wedding night.


Yep, I think he is a good man to have values and calling him an ass for that is appalling. It wasn't him who lied or deceived his wife. We all make a choice on whether to marry on what our fiancé/partner has told us. If we don't think we agree on something important then we may not marry them. 
OP if you are really following God, I think he may be shouting in your ear to be honest with your husband. Lies and dishonestly should have no place in our lives. There have been times when God had made it very clear that I am to apologise to my husband about something, and that was small things, so in your case its even more important that you stop sweeping this under the rug and be brave. Have you got what it takes to do the right thing?


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> The ends do not justify the means. The ends invalidate the preconditions.
> 
> If at the end of the day you've had a wonderful marriage with someone who did not meet your entry criteria, a smart man updates his criteria instead of ditching his marriage. A little anger, some grieving, and a display of disappointment with a warning that it wasn't a particularly moral decision at the time may well be in order - but a lack of forgiveness on his part at this point would be a much worse personality failure than the original lie, IMO.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.


He may well forgive the lies and deception and decide to stay with her, but he isn't being given the chance to make that decision.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Cletus said:


> The ends do not justify the means. The ends invalidate the preconditions.
> 
> If at the end of the day you've had a wonderful marriage with someone who did not meet your entry criteria, a smart man updates his criteria instead of ditching his marriage. A little anger, some grieving, and a display of disappointment with a warning that it wasn't a particularly moral decision at the time may well be in order - but a lack of forgiveness on his part at this point would be a much worse personality failure than the original lie, IMO.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.


In which case it would behoove her to know exactly who he is as well. Either way, they're living a big, huge, fat lie. Only the truth can determine if they should be together today.


----------



## adriw7878

Dear OP,

If hubby didn't ask no need to tell. It was something that happened before you met him.

I dated my wife (first date) for 7 years and never we had sex. Only kisses and fondling (I stopped before venturing further than that) ... as I wanted our wedding night to be special. On our wedding night, no bleeding and though she was well lubricated I felt no resistance at all. I was disappointed (5 mins after sexual encounter) but quickly overcame that feeling as I believe her past experiences was before I met her and I was marrying her not her hymen.

We were married for 28 yrs (had lovely children) and I fell into a coma for 2 years. Since waking up I found she was a woman I never met before. She comes home after midnight and smelling of alcohol (at least 4 times a week). We quarreled a few times and she kept saying "You are a sick man. You think I'd just open my legs for others. Stop hallucinating." Now I had woken for 2 years and PI confirmed with report and pics she is having an affair with my best friend. I am secretly planning a divorce soon.


----------



## adriw7878

Dear OP,

If hubby didn't ask no need to tell. It was something that happened before you met him.

I dated my wife (first date) for 7 years and we never had sex. Only kisses and fondling (I stopped before venturing further than that) ... as I wanted our wedding night to be special. On our wedding night, no bleeding and though she was well lubricated I felt no resistance at all. I was disappointed (5 mins after sexual encounter) but quickly overcame that feeling as I believe her past experiences was before I met her and I was marrying her not her hymen.

We were married for 28 yrs (had lovely children) and I fell into a coma for 2 years. Since waking up I found she was a woman I never met before. She comes home after midnight and smelling of alcohol (at least 4 times a week). We quarreled a few times and she kept saying "You are a sick man. You think I'd just open my legs for others. Stop hallucinating." Now I had woken for 2 years and PI confirmed with report and pics she is having an affair with my best friend. I am secretly planning a divorce soon.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> The ends do not justify the means. The ends invalidate the preconditions.
> 
> If at the end of the day you've had a wonderful marriage with someone who did not meet your entry criteria, a smart man updates his criteria instead of ditching his marriage. A little anger, some grieving, and a display of disappointment with a warning that it wasn't a particularly moral decision at the time may well be in order - but a lack of forgiveness on his part at this point would be a much worse personality failure than the original lie, IMO.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.


Honesty is an important quality to lots of people. It may be the end point. It's his life and his marriage to decide.


----------



## sokillme

adriw7878 said:


> Dear OP,
> 
> If hubby didn't ask no need to tell. It was something that happened before you met him.
> 
> I dated my wife (first date) for 7 years and we never had sex. Only kisses and fondling (I stopped before venturing further than that) ... as I wanted our wedding night to be special. On our wedding night, no bleeding and though she was well lubricated I felt no resistance at all. I was disappointed (5 mins after sexual encounter) but quickly overcame that feeling as I believe her past experiences was before I met her and I was marrying her not her hymen.
> 
> We were married for 28 yrs (had lovely children) and I fell into a coma for 2 years. Since waking up I found she was a woman I never met before. She comes home after midnight and smelling of alcohol (at least 4 times a week). We quarreled a few times and she kept saying "You are a sick man. You think I'd just open my legs for others. Stop hallucinating." Now I had woken for 2 years and PI confirmed with report and pics she is having an affair with my best friend. I am secretly planning a divorce soon.


He asked she lied, and continued to misrepresent herself throughout the entire marriage.


----------



## 269370

adriw7878 said:


> Dear OP,
> 
> 
> 
> If hubby didn't ask no need to tell. It was something that happened before you met him.
> 
> 
> 
> I dated my wife (first date) for 7 years and never we had sex. Only kisses and fondling (I stopped before venturing further than that) ... as I wanted our wedding night to be special. On our wedding night, no bleeding and though she was well lubricated I felt no resistance at all. I was disappointed (5 mins after sexual encounter) but quickly overcame that feeling as I believe her past experiences was before I met her and I was marrying her not her hymen.
> 
> 
> 
> We were married for 28 yrs (had lovely children) and I fell into a coma for 2 years. Since waking up I found she was a woman I never met before. She comes home after midnight and smelling of alcohol (at least 4 times a week). We quarreled a few times and she kept saying "You are a sick man. You think I'd just open my legs for others. Stop hallucinating." Now I had woken for 2 years and PI confirmed with report and pics she is having an affair with my best friend. I am secretly planning a divorce soon.




Wow. That’s heavy. Very sorry.
Did something happen for you to fall into a coma or did it happen out of the blue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Wow. That’s heavy. Very sorry.
> Did something happen for you to fall into a coma or did it happen out of the blue?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/408281-wife-affair-blown-wide-opened-soon.html


----------



## NextTimeAround

For me, the lie becomes more egregious the more sacrifices that I made as a result of believing the lie.

For example,

1. It sucks to be the rebound girl because you believed when he /she said that there was a future. And you gave up your time when you could been studying / seeing other friends / dating other men / whatever because of this lie.

2. It sucks when your date tells you that he is used to other women paying for him ..... when you find out that is so totally not true. But before learning that, he made you paid your fair share only to find out that women who were lesser committed to him got limousine service.

And so OP, in your situation, what could be the outcome. It's not like he wanted sex before marriage. And You did end up marrying him so his time was not wasted.

But if one accepts that one's faith is powerful as one does in religion, you have stretched his ability to trust, to have faith in other people's integrity and so on........

Could this be the same scenario as when a child finds out he or she is adopted? Your (adopted) parents are committed as ever, You have parents that chose to be parents but....... there is something missing......

I would never date a guy who
1. told me he was waiting until marriage .....let alone who claimed to be a virgin
2. told me that he was a modern guy and therefore expected his girlfriends to go 50/50 with him
3 there are probably other scenarios that I, upfront, would just not even risk due to the level of, well, risk you encounter when the condition for your doing something was a lie to begin with.


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> Honesty is an important quality to lots of people. It may be the end point. It's his life and his marriage to decide.


Your mileage may vary.

I will continue to believe that someone incapable of re-evaluating his marriage criteria in light of a long term successful marriage is an ass.

Do you plan on trying to browbeat me into submission?


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> He may well forgive the lies and deception and decide to stay with her, but he isn't being given the chance to make that decision.


Was it not clear that my recent comments are predicated on her telling him?


----------



## Maxwedge 413

OP, what are you going to do? I think the TAM community is quarreling more than you and hubby will if you just tell him!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Cletus said:


> Your mileage may vary.
> 
> I will continue to believe that someone incapable of re-evaluating his marriage criteria in light of a long term successful marriage is an ass.
> 
> Do you plan on trying to browbeat me into submission?


I think many here would agree with you. Someone who would throw away a long term, otherwise successful marriage over this may well be an ass. 

But he still has the right to know, and the right to be an ass about it if he so chooses. Just as she has the right to know if she's married to an ass!


----------



## uhtred

Its difficult to think of something equivalent. Your example are either things that directly involve the present / future like having children, or which are actions that are nearly universally condemned (like being in prison). 

Drug use might be an interesting example. How would people react to discovering that their spouse was a drug user in the past, but not since they met them?




Diana7 said:


> I think the reaction would have been just as strong if the lies had been about other important things. Say if one lied and said they wanted children when they know they didn't. Or they lied about why another marriage ended and they had actually cheated on their previous spouse and not the other way round. Or they were taking illegal drugs or had been in jail and lied about that. All such lies would have been very serious and deceptive and stopped the spouse from making an informed decision about whether to marry that person.
> 
> Legally he may even be able to get an annulment, but I think he may well forgive and stay given lots of time.


----------



## Thor

Cletus said:


> If at the end of the day you've had a wonderful marriage with someone who did not meet your entry criteria, a smart man updates his criteria instead of ditching his marriage.


I assume that open honesty was one of his entry criteria.

From my own experience I expect if he hears the truth from her then there is a chance he will see value in attempting R. Yes, this was a big betrayal, so reconciliation is needed. If he hears the truth from elsewhere, I don't see a path to having a happy marriage.

eta: Also from my personal experience, the mindset that it is ok to lie in order to manipulate someone else into doing what you want is a big red flag for future deceptions. I see there being a continuing risk into the future of further betrayals.


----------



## Cletus

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But he still has the right to know, and the right to be an ass about it if he so chooses. Just as she has the right to know if she's married to an ass!


If an otherwise successful marriage gets destroyed by the revealing of this one truth, but would go on to 50+ years of success without it, then it is not demonstrably true in my worldview that honesty is the best policy.

Maybe the guy is an ass, and this is his Achilles heel. Maybe his personal failure point is no more or less reprehensible than her initial lie. Shall we in all cases be sure to run the experiment and ruin two lives so that we can hang our hat on some foolish acid test about which we have no flexibility? Perhaps nothing is gained by exposing a flaw that could otherwise remain dormant forever. I reject that level of rigidity in any relationship. 

It is not some immutable law of the universe that truth is always the best option in the great cosmic balance. If I had perfect knowledge of his future actions, and the outcome would be bad, I would easily counsel against telling him, and with a perfectly clear conscience. 

I've said my piece. It's not my job to convince you that I'm right, but your truth in this matter is not the last word. It's your preference, but reasonable and moral people can disagree on what she should do. Without being influenced by Satan, that is.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I think many here would agree with you. Someone who would throw away a long term, otherwise successful marriage over this may well be an ass.
> 
> But he still has the right to know, and the right to be an ass about it if he so chooses. Just as she has the right to know if she's married to an ass!


Why is a man who has strong moral values an ass? Why do you feel the need to speak about him so rudely just because his beliefs and values and yours are different?

I very much respect men with values like his, they are rare today and it takes guts to go against the flow and be different.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Its difficult to think of something equivalent. Your example are either things that directly involve the present / future like having children, or which are actions that are nearly universally condemned (like being in prison).
> 
> Drug use might be an interesting example. How would people react to discovering that their spouse was a drug user in the past, but not since they met them?


One that is sort of similar is if a man tells his partner that he doesn't use porn, knowing that for her its a no no, and then after the marriage she finds out that he lied and he looks at it a lot and has for many years. Or maybe he or she had cheated on their first wife/husband and they lied about it. Or didn't tell them they had even been married before. 

As you say the drug thing may be sort of equivalent, or if the spouse is an alcoholic but hasn't drunk for a time. All these things need to be discussed openly before marriage. Whatever the lies are about, its wrong to marry anyone under deception.
Its also wrong to carry on the deception.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


Your conscience is telling you what you need to do.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I think many here would agree with you. Someone who would throw away a long term, otherwise successful marriage over this may well be an ass.
> 
> But he still has the right to know, and the right to be an ass about it if he so chooses. Just as she has the right to know if she's married to an ass!


Do we even know if its a long marriage? 

The thing is that when your spouse has lied to you for so long its hard to trust them again. It wouldn't be him throwing a marriage away when the marriage was under false pretences in the first place.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Diana7 said:


> Do we even know if its a long marriage?
> 
> The thing is that when your spouse has lied to you for so long its hard to trust them again. It wouldn't be him throwing a marriage away when the marriage was under false pretences in the first place.



This is interesting because I think everyone here would agree that if a spouse withheld --knowingly -- that they had a child and then that child appeared sometime after the marriage, that would be a dealbreaker. Or an understandable dealbreaker. 

That's because especially if the child is still a minor, that is creating material responsibilities to the spouse that they did not expect in terms of time, money and possibly dealing with the ex, so legal issues as well.

On this occassion, we're dealing with the issue of faith. For those like myself who are not strongly religious, the fact that a perfectly faithful spouse decides to reveal the truth of their sexual history pre marriage and possibly pre dating, there are no material issues to deal with.

But for those who are religious, there is the non material, non secular faith factor here........

Would this be similar to anti abortionists who have been outed for having an abortion (in the past..... of course)


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Why is a man who has strong moral values an ass? Why do you feel the need to speak about him so rudely just because his beliefs and values and yours are different?


It's not his values that would make him an ass.

Finding a partner with whom you can have a long, successful marriage is hard work. When you're lucky enough to get that person, who then proves her fealty to you over years and decades, meets your needs, raises your children, cleans your home and cooks your meals (sorry, feminists, this is a rhetorical point) - to cast that person aside because she made a large error in judgement when you got married would be a far greater evil than the initial lie. 

You don't have to say "I wish I had different morals" to also say "it worked out, I still love you, you're a good wife, and I forgive you". The man who cannot do that? What would _you_ call him?

I mean, it's not like he'd have to hang out with a prostitute or a money changer.


----------



## chillymorn69

Cletus said:


> It's not his values that would make him an ass.
> 
> Finding a partner with whom you can have a long, successful marriage is hard work. When you're lucky enough to get that person, who then proves her fealty to you over years and decades, meets your needs, raises your children, cleans your home and cooks your meals (sorry, feminists, this is a rhetorical point) - to cast that person aside because she made a large error in judgement when you got married would be a far greater evil than the initial lie.
> 
> You don't have to say "I wish I had different morals" to also say "it worked out, I still love you, you're a good wife, and I forgive you". The man who cannot do that? What would _you_ call him?
> 
> I mean, it's not like he'd have to hang out with a prostitute or a money changer.



What if she ends up cheating and their marriages fails?

Your making a huge assumption that their particular marriage will be sucessfull.

Do you have a crystal ball? Are you basing their sucess on her telling us she love him and yad yada yada?

Lol. 


Then if their marriages dies fail down the road (half of all marriages fail) then he would have been right to not trust or want to have his opinion to not want to marry someone with a past of promiscuity. 


The he would have been a lied too ass!


----------



## Thor

Cletus said:


> When you're lucky enough to get that person, who then proves her *fealty* to you over years and decades, meets your needs, raises your children, cleans your home and cooks your meals (sorry, feminists, this is a rhetorical point) - to cast that person aside because she made a large error in judgement when you got married would be a far greater evil than the initial lie.


From Miriam Webster Dictionary



> Definition of fealty
> plural fealties
> 1 a : the fidelity of a vassal or feudal tenant to his lord
> b : the obligation of such fidelity The vassal vowed fealty to the king.
> 2 : intense fidelity
> the fealty of country music fans to their favorite stars


Deceiving a fiance about something known to be a deal-breaker is, imho, the opposite of _fealty_. Loyalty means doing what is right even when it is difficult, and even when it means a personal sacrifice.

Breaking loyalty from the early days of the relationship up through the wedding day (every single day was an opportunity to set the record straight or end the relationship) will certainly bring into question her loyalty throughout the marriage. This is what we see with affairs, when the betrayed spouse wonders (and rightly so) what other infidelities have occurred which they don't know about. The betrayed spouse is unable to trust into the future due to the proof of dishonesty in the past.

Betrayed spouses usually say they feel every single day the lie continued even after the affair ended was another lie.

If her husband finds out the truth or hints of the truth from any other source, he is going to question her current and future worthiness of his trust.

If all her ex-lovers are dead or on another continent without internet service, he may not find out about her past and her lies.


----------



## uhtred

Porn is also about sex.

Alcoholic is possible example but again pretty much everyone agrees that being an alcoholic is bad, while many people don't think an active sex life is bad



Diana7 said:


> One that is sort of similar is if a man tells his partner that he doesn't use porn, knowing that for her its a no no, and then after the marriage she finds out that he lied and he looks at it a lot and has for many years. Or maybe he or she had cheated on their first wife/husband and they lied about it. Or didn't tell them they had even been married before.
> 
> As you say the drug thing may be sort of equivalent, or if the spouse is an alcoholic but hasn't drunk for a time. All these things need to be discussed openly before marriage. Whatever the lies are about, its wrong to marry anyone under deception.
> Its also wrong to carry on the deception.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> Your mileage may vary.
> 
> I will continue to believe that someone incapable of re-evaluating his marriage criteria in light of a long term successful marriage is an ass.
> 
> Do you plan on trying to browbeat me into submission?


The only one calling people names because they have different ideas about THEIR OWN lives is you. It's a board people have a discussion. No one is browbeating you don't be so sensitive. 

For me I don't trust liars, life has taught me it's never one lie, it's a lifestyle. A marriage with this big a lie in it is not a good one. Character is character. What you and I would call a good marriage are very different things anyway. 

Besides that OP has shown she has some issues that she has to work through, the lie is just a symptom of that. I doubt that it's not going to show up in other ways eventually. How can the marriage be good if he doesn't even know her, he knows a image that she portrays.


----------



## Diana7

NextTimeAround said:


> This is interesting because I think everyone here would agree that if a spouse withheld --knowingly -- that they had a child and then that child appeared sometime after the marriage, that would be a dealbreaker. Or an understandable dealbreaker.
> 
> That's because especially if the child is still a minor, that is creating material responsibilities to the spouse that they did not expect in terms of time, money and possibly dealing with the ex, so legal issues as well.
> 
> On this occassion, we're dealing with the issue of faith. For those like myself who are not strongly religious, the fact that a perfectly faithful spouse decides to reveal the truth of their sexual history pre marriage and possibly pre dating, there are no material issues to deal with.
> 
> But for those who are religious, there is the non material, non secular faith factor here........
> 
> Would this be similar to anti abortionists who have been outed for having an abortion (in the past..... of course)


To me its about the fact that if you are dating and intending to marry then there should be no lies or deception. This applies especially if you know that your intended feels strongly about something. To deliberately hide something because you know this is important to you spouse is starting the whole marriage on a wrong foundations. If a man I was with lied about something very important then that would show me that he is capable of deep deception. 
I didn't become a Christian till well into adulthood and I felt the same before that, that dishonesty and deception is wrong, especially with someone you are going to marry. I could no more lie to my husband than I could fly. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I did that.


----------



## sokillme

NextTimeAround said:


> This is interesting because I think everyone here would agree that if a spouse withheld --knowingly -- that they had a child and then that child appeared sometime after the marriage, that would be a dealbreaker. Or an understandable dealbreaker.
> 
> That's because especially if the child is still a minor, that is creating material responsibilities to the spouse that they did not expect in terms of time, money and possibly dealing with the ex, so legal issues as well.
> 
> On this occassion, we're dealing with the issue of faith. For those like myself who are not strongly religious, the fact that a perfectly faithful spouse decides to reveal the truth of their sexual history pre marriage and possibly pre dating, there are no material issues to deal with.
> 
> But for those who are religious, there is the non material, non secular faith factor here........
> 
> Would this be similar to anti abortionists who have been outed for having an abortion (in the past..... of course)


Sex is different because it's an activity between two people (mostly).

So it's different because assuming they have an active sex-life, every time they have sex she misrepresents herself in a way. She purports to him the he is her only partner, that she waited for him.  That they have a very special bond, experience and sexual relationship that only they two share. That she feels exactly the same way and that this is an important part of their relationship. She is playing a part with him, so he has never really known the real women. How can they have true sexual intimacy when she hasn't even shown him who she really is. Only an image. Once she tells him, they will now have a new sex-life, everything he thought about who they were together (each others one and only) will be gone. Also every time they were together he will know that she was misrepresenting herself. 

Abortion or another kid is not an intimate activity that is shared by two people. That may change the perception of someone in those cases, but again this is not just perception of her, it was a perception of his relationship with and to her that will change. It will change the nature of their relationship. 

One thing for sure, this tread really is a good example of how people who view sex as a casual activity really don't understand people who feel don't feel that way.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Porn is also about sex.
> 
> Alcoholic is possible example but again pretty much everyone agrees that being an alcoholic is bad, while many people don't think an active sex life is bad


Many people, including her husband, do think that having sex outside marriage is wrong, and just because more don't doesn't make him wrong. 
The majority of men probably think its ok to look at porn, but I wouldn't marry a man who did and I would expect him to be honest about it early on if he did. I am a very honest person, and I would want a man I married to be as well. Surely we all want that, honesty and openness with our spouse? No lies or deception?

I think that most here agree that her deception was wrong, and that she needs to come clean and do the right thing.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> Sex is different because it's an activity between two people (mostly).
> 
> So it's different because assuming they have an active sex-life, every time they have sex she misrepresents herself in a way. She purports to him the he is her only partner, that she waited for him. That they have a very special bond, experience and sexual relationship that only they two share. That she feels exactly the same way and that this is an important part of their relationship. She is playing a part with him, so he has never really known the real women. How can they have true sexual intimacy when she hasn't even shown him who she really is. Only an image. Once she tells him, they will now have a new sex-life, everything he thought about who they were together (each others one and only) will be gone. Also every time they were together he will know that she was misrepresenting herself.
> 
> Abortion or another kid is not an intimate activity that is shared by two people. That may change the perception of someone in those cases, but again this is not just perception of her, it was a perception of his relationship with and to her that will change. It will change the nature of their relationship.
> 
> One thing for sure, this tread really is a good example of how people who view sex as a casual activity really don't understand people who feel don't feel that way.


I agree. Sex for many of us and for this ladies husband is a very important expression of love in marriage. Sex bonds us to that person in ways we are not aware of. For anyone to attack him for his stand is appalling. He didn't hide his beliefs, there was no deception on his part, and he was within his rights to expect honesty from his future wife/wife. I hope he gets it now, better late than never, but I don't think he will sadly.


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> It's not his values that would make him an ass.
> 
> Finding a partner with whom you can have a long, successful marriage is hard work. When you're lucky enough to get that person, who then proves her fealty to you over years and decades, meets your needs, raises your children, cleans your home and cooks your meals (sorry, feminists, this is a rhetorical point) - to cast that person aside because she made a large error in judgement when you got married would be a far greater evil than the initial lie.
> 
> You don't have to say "I wish I had different morals" to also say "it worked out, I still love you, you're a good wife, and I forgive you". The man who cannot do that? What would _you_ call him?
> 
> I mean, it's not like he'd have to hang out with a prostitute or a money changer.


Neither you nor I has any idea what he would do if she told him. He may well forgive her in time for her deception, but I doubt he will ever get that chance. 
As I said before we don't know how long this marriage has lasted. You are assuming its a very long marriage. It may only be 5-10 years. 
I don't agree that ending a marriage over such a big deception would be wrong, but that's for him to decide. That may be the consequences of what she did, but he has done nothing wrong and deserves to know the truth. 

Just because you dont think that lying and deception are that bad, many of us do. Trust in marriage is vital. Their marriage is built on poor foundations. 

Nothing wrong with hanging out with prostitutes or money changers, especially when they are being led to change. This is his wife, their marriage started and has carried on with deep deception. The only way to right this is to throw herself on her husbands mercy. He may just surprise her, but God wont let this go with her, that's for sure, because she knows what she has to do and she isn't doing it.


----------



## uhtred

Many think it is wrong, many don't. There is no way to know what the majority is here because all you see is how often people post. 

I would like a spouse I could be open and honest with. 




Diana7 said:


> Many people, including her husband, do think that having sex outside marriage is wrong, and just because more don't doesn't make him wrong.
> The majority of men probably think its ok to look at porn, but I wouldn't marry a man who did and I would expect him to be honest about it early on if he did. I am a very honest person, and I would want a man I married to be as well. Surely we all want that, honesty and openness with our spouse? No lies or deception?
> 
> I think that most here agree that her deception was wrong, and that she needs to come clean and do the right thing.


----------



## Wolfman1968

uhtred said:


> Its difficult to think of something equivalent. Your example are either things that directly involve the present / future like having children, or which are actions that are nearly universally condemned (like being in prison).
> 
> Drug use might be an interesting example. How would people react to discovering that their spouse was a drug user in the past, but not since they met them?



Hmmm...well, for something equivalent, let me offer something I remember reading in TAM from the days before the Password Fiasco.

There was a rather extreme "feminist" who used to post on TAM who, during a thread about deal breakers for potential mates, stated that she could never be with a man who had hired a prostitute (we're talking adult, non-trafficked, not just some underage or involuntary one), because she felt the whole situation was exploitive of women and could not stand to be with someone who had been in that exploitive/sexist role. (Long term TAMers may remember this poster who hailed from Australia and would reflexively take anti-male positions on almost any topic.) Regardless of her politics, she's entitled to set any sort of requirements she wants for her own choice of a mate.

So, I guess an equivalent example might be a husband married to a radical feminist who had a similar "deal breaker" position who was hiding/lying about his use of the services of one or more prostitutes in the past. Upon discovery, she might never look at him the same way because of her political/philosophical stances. So, he might lie about it before the marriage and continue to hide it during the whole marriage.


----------



## uhtred

That seems similar - but again it has something to do with sex. All the examples I could think of were the same. There is something *different* about the way people view sex from everything else. 




Wolfman1968 said:


> Hmmm...well, for something equivalent, let me offer something I remember reading in TAM from the days before the Password Fiasco.
> 
> There was a rather extreme "feminist" who used to post on TAM who, during a thread about deal breakers for potential mates, stated that she could never be with a man who had hired a prostitute (we're talking adult, non-trafficked, not just some underage or involuntary one), because she felt the whole situation was exploitive of women and could not stand to be with someone who had been in that exploitive/sexist role. (Long term TAMers may remember this poster who hailed from Australia and would reflexively take anti-male positions on almost any topic.) Regardless of her politics, she's entitled to set any sort of requirements she wants for her own choice of a mate.
> 
> So, I guess an equivalent example might be a husband married to a radical feminist who had a similar "deal breaker" position who was hiding/lying about his use of the services of one or more prostitutes in the past. Upon discovery, she might never look at him the same way because of her political/philosophical stances. So, he might lie about it before the marriage and continue to hide it during the whole marriage.


----------



## Wolfman1968

uhtred said:


> That seems similar - but again it has something to do with sex. All the examples I could think of were the same. There is something *different* about the way people view sex from everything else.



Well, it is true it had to do with sex; however, in contrast with some other examples which are questions of morality/religion/sexual insecurity, the example involving the radical feminist is purely a "political" or "philosophical" one involving the dynamics of her perceived Patriarchial Oppression. 

I thought that difference was enough to qualify.


----------



## Satya

Deleted. 
Nevermind, I wasn't caught up enough.


----------



## 269370

I think everyone agrees that it’s not a good idea to lie.
To me, this just doesn’t seem relevant anymore. If he asks, by all means tell but there’s just no relevance anymore. It’s not like he still expects her to be a virgin (yes i know that’s not the point).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NextTimeAround

sokillme said:


> One thing for sure, this tread really is a good example of how people who view sex as a casual activity really don't understand people who feel don't feel that way.


I think I understand a little bit. I have known a couple of women who claim that they are waiting until marriage to have sex. However, they're not always consistent with that personal pledge ...... at the same time that they freely call other women ****s for doing what they feel like .... even within a committed relationship. 

ETA: It's like the religious right claiming that getting teenagers to pledge celibacy is a better method of birth control than those methods that allow engagement. The holier than thou attitude in the face of a method that has a spotty success rate is galling to the rest of the population.

I know two who skipped from Waiting until marriage to getting pregnant while single and apparently knowing that they will be single moms. How does one account for that?

One thing that I have missed, if it was discussed at all, is why is the OP NOW concerned about her lie? Is the dishonesty stressing her out or have one or more of her former lovers come back in town?


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> What you and I would call a good marriage are very different things anyway.





Diana7 said:


> Just because you dont think that lying and deception are that bad, many of us do.


Ah, I see where we all stand now. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> One thing for sure, this tread really is a good example of how people who view sex as a casual activity really don't understand people who feel don't feel that way.


I am operating from the purely pragmatic. The horse has left the barn already. How then do you proceed?

I haven't seen anyone say that her initial lie about her past was a good thing.


----------



## Lostinthought61

JustTheWife said:


> Well I do feel guilty about it for the reason that you say. However, sometimes I think that it's ok because it shouldn't matter. I like to read books about court cases and lawyers! I mean part of me things it's not material. Sure he it's important to him. but I do love Christian values and I do try to live by them as much as all Christians. Is there any physical difference because of what I did? Like I said, i got tested. Lots of people having sex the first time don't bleed or whatever and I don't think you can say that this is some kind of thing that he would want or "deserve". I don't think anyone can say that somehow robbed greater pleasure by having sex with a "real" virgin.
> 
> So if i am a good Christian and a good wife, how am I robbing him of something.
> 
> And many people here believe that you should not be discriminated against for your sexual history. Well I do feel a lot of shame for it but I don't think people should be discriminated against for it. If i'm the same person regardless of my history, doesnt' that mean that its not a material thing?
> 
> Why is this info necessary to make a well informed decision?
> 
> Maybe this whole thing comes down to if you think i'm the same person with or without that sex?



yes right just like you have born again Christians then that extends to born again virgins...

look i don't care about the religious angle in all of this....I do care that you started your relationship on a lie...be honest with yourself it was a lie...minor maybe who knows you never gave him a chance to know about your past...instead you created a lie...and built that lie until you believed it yourself.....you can pray all you want but you were deceitful from the beginning and that says more about your character then anything else. I hope your sake that your not a hypocrite as well, where you pass judgement on your kids or people you know for having sex before marriage ...that would just add to that character of deceit you build. I would rather my girl tell me that i F'd up when i was young and i lost my way...that i can respect...but someone who tells me they are pure as the driven snow, while all the time being a fraud that makes me sick...and i will tell you something else...while i know you have been tested...there is no guarantee that you don't come down with something that has been dormant, from a previous partner.


----------



## JustTheWife

Wow so many replies that I can't respond to them all. My main purpose for posting this at all was not really to get advice on whether I should tell or not. I just wanted to know if anyone had experience or ideas on this that might help me whatever the outcome is. I'm happy for input from women and men but i posted in the ladies lounge because I thought that some women may have a similar issue and either have told or not and what it's living with it, etc. 

Answers to some questions asked or maybe things that have been misunderstood:

We've been married about 1 year, dating for about 1 year and before that friends for just under a year.

I love him. It's too late and i ruined it but I want to be pure for him. I want to do everything in my power to be the wife that he wants me to be.

Yes, i got physical pleasure from it even thought I know it was so wrong. I had mixed feelings about it because it felt so wrong but part of it was it was like rebelling or being a bad girl. I also felt like i was cursed because i was so religious but had a lot of sexual feelings. I hated that and it was very hard for me for a long time. I hated myself for all of those thoughts. Then I just started with what was liek a double life.

We do not live in the places where any of this happened. I don't care to go back to college or HS reunions (not because of thsi - just don't want to). These guys were not in our social circle (bad boys who I don't see appearing in my church). Hardly any would even remember my name - mainly just one night stand kind of things. Had a couple of BFs but they weren't really "quality" relationships so I don't see them coming back to sweep me off of my feet.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JustTheWife said:


> Wow so many replies that I can't respond to them all. My main purpose for posting this at all was not really to get advice on whether I should tell or not. I just wanted to know if anyone had experience or ideas on this that might help me whatever the outcome is. I'm happy for input from women and men but i posted in the ladies lounge because I thought that some women may have a similar issue and either have told or not and what it's living with it, etc.
> 
> Answers to some questions asked or maybe things that have been misunderstood:
> 
> We've been married about 1 year, dating for about 1 year and before that friends for just under a year.
> 
> I love him. * It's too late and i ruined it but I want to be pure for him. * I want to do everything in my power to be the wife that he wants me to be.
> 
> Yes, i got physical pleasure from it even thought I know it was so wrong. I had mixed feelings about it because it felt so wrong but part of it was it was like rebelling or being a bad girl. I also felt like i was cursed because i was so religious but had a lot of sexual feelings. I hated that and it was very hard for me for a long time. I hated myself for all of those thoughts. Then I just started with what was liek a double life.
> 
> We do not live in the places where any of this happened. I don't care to go back to college or HS reunions (not because of thsi - just don't want to). These guys were not in our social circle (bad boys who I don't see appearing in my church). Hardly any would even remember my name - mainly just one night stand kind of things. Had a couple of BFs but they weren't really "quality" relationships so I don't see them coming back to sweep me off of my feet.


Just speaking personally here, but I think if your love for him is pure and your devotion to him and him only is pure, then that's all the purity than counts a this point. Purity of the heart is more important than whether or not some part of your body has been in physical contact with someone else. 

There is no residual physical effect of past activity (barring STDs). There is no way observation that can detect if someone has been "defiled." There is nothing physically tangible here. If someone sees it differently, that's a choice, not a fact. It only has an impact if we choose to make it so. However, the truth of the love and devotion we share most definitely have an impact on our relationship no matter what. That should be the driving force. That should be the decision criteria.


----------



## Luvher4life

JustTheWife, you have a real decision to make. You've only been married for a year, but this is something that will likely continue to haunt you. It doesn't matter what you did, or to whom. We are all human, and make errors in judgment. What matters is being honest with the man you love. You weren't honest in the beginning, and from the way it sounds, it's bothering you really bad. I think it's something that won't just go away, either. I don't know your husband, or what he would do if he found out, but he trusted what you said, and "deserves" to know. Whether you are willing to take that risk or not is up to you. Peace of mind is what you seem to be seeking. You will need to be in a good place yourself if you do plan on telling him, and be prepared for the pain that follows. His trust will certainly be broken. It might be better to trickle truth in this particular case, instead of dumping the whole shebang. The main thing he needs to know is that you lied about being a virgin. The rest "shouldn't" matter as much as the lie itself.


...Or not, and you just learn to live with this secret.


----------



## twoofus

Your sexual past is your and yours only. If you wish to divulge it, then it is your choice (but be discrete with other identities). However, never mention participating in an act that that you would refuse your partner.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

twoofus said:


> *Your sexual past is your and yours only. If you wish to divulge it, then it is your choice* (but be discrete with other identities). However, never mention participating in an act that that you would refuse your partner.


That otherwise reasonable statement flew out the window when she specifically told him she was a virgin before they got married. She gave up that right the second she lied.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> Wow so many replies that I can't respond to them all. My main purpose for posting this at all was not really to get advice on whether I should tell or not. I just wanted to know if anyone had experience or ideas on this that might help me whatever the outcome is. I'm happy for input from women and men but i posted in the ladies lounge because I thought that some women may have a similar issue and either have told or not and what it's living with it, etc.
> 
> Answers to some questions asked or maybe things that have been misunderstood:
> 
> We've been married about 1 year, dating for about 1 year and before that friends for just under a year.
> 
> I love him. It's too late and i ruined it but I want to be pure for him. I want to do everything in my power to be the wife that he wants me to be.
> 
> Yes, i got physical pleasure from it even thought I know it was so wrong. I had mixed feelings about it because it felt so wrong but part of it was it was like rebelling or being a bad girl. I also felt like i was cursed because i was so religious but had a lot of sexual feelings. I hated that and it was very hard for me for a long time. I hated myself for all of those thoughts. Then I just started with what was liek a double life.
> 
> We do not live in the places where any of this happened. I don't care to go back to college or HS reunions (not because of thsi - just don't want to). These guys were not in our social circle (bad boys who I don't see appearing in my church). Hardly any would even remember my name - mainly just one night stand kind of things. Had a couple of BFs but they weren't really "quality" relationships so I don't see them coming back to sweep me off of my feet.


As I see it, your marriage is still in its very early stages so its not as if you have been in this deception for too long as yet, and the longer you leave it the harder it will get to keep this dark secret. The harder it will be to tell him. 

If you are following Christ, how can you justify these lies and this deception to your own husband? God has lots to say about honesty in the Bible. Its not for us to lie or deceive anyone, let alone the one we are married to. Its your choice, obey God or not, but in my experience of life, He is always right and wise. If you don't there will be long term consequences as you are living a lie right now. It will be far far worse if he finds out in 5,10,20 years time, and then you may have children whose lives will be affected. 

Tell him, do the right thing, throw yourself on his mercy and you may just be surprised at his eventual decision. Yes he will be upset and shocked, but I am sure he will pray and ask God what to do and eventually forgive and be able to move on from this.
If you continue to keep this secret with the guilt you are feeling, it will badly affect your mental and physical health, as well as your relationship with God.


----------



## Diana7

twoofus said:


> Your sexual past is your and yours only. If you wish to divulge it, then it is your choice (but be discrete with other identities). However, never mention participating in an act that that you would refuse your partner.


Not if you get married.


----------



## karole

Did you get tested for STDs before you were married? Sorry if that is too personal; however, what if you should test positive with HPV or something down the road, how will you explain it to your husband then?


----------



## Adelais

Married one year, no children. Definitely tell him the truth ASAP. It will hurt him less now than it will after more years of living under a lie. 

If you tell him now and he decides it is a deal breaker, and chooses to divorce you, only two people will be hurt. If you wait until children are in the picture, more people will be hurt.

You pretended to be a virgin because that is what people expected. Simultaneously, you had sex with lots of bad boys because that is what they expected. 

Don't you want to live an authentic life and just be yourself (within the boundaries of your faith)?

Start your authentic life today, by telling your husband the truth. More important than having other people approve of you is being true to your own standards.


----------



## 269370

People don’t seem to be getting it: she was never planning on telling him anything nor was she asking whether she should tell him. The OP wanted to know how to come to terms with this kind of situation and if there are others in her situation. She wanted reassurance and sympathy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> People don’t seem to be getting it: she was never planning on telling him anything nor was she asking whether she should tell him. The OP wanted to know how to come to terms with this kind of situation and if there are others in her situation. She wanted reassurance and sympathy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, but most of know that she will never have peace about this unless she tells the truth. Especially if she is a Christian. She feels guilty for a reason. Its her conscience.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Yes, but most of know that she will never have peace about this unless she tells the truth. Especially if she is a Christian. She feels guilty for a reason.



Only if the husband ever wonders how come she’s so naturally gifted at that sex thing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NextTimeAround

inmyprime said:


> Only if the husband ever wonders how come she’s so naturally gifted at that sex thing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and you're also supposed to bleed the first time.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Only if the husband ever wonders how come she’s so naturally gifted at that sex thing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I am not sure that having sex with many different people makes you gifted at all.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> Well I am not sure that having sex with many different people makes you gifted at all.


Yes. 

Gifted is natural, innate.

Skilled is the result of training and experience.

If he finds her good at it, based on her lie, he is assuming she's gifted when she's really just experienced.


----------



## uhtred

I don't think that is necessarily true. A hymen can be broken in ways other than intercourse. 



NextTimeAround said:


> and you're also supposed to bleed the first time.


----------



## 269370

NextTimeAround said:


> and you're also supposed to bleed the first time.



That can easily be faked. Keep a small packet of ketchup nearby - done. And some beef jerky for hymen bits.

Also mustard can come in handy to make losing anal virginity more realistic...(what?!)
it’s Friday night..
If lying is the name of the game, might as well get the proper tools (or sauces. Very important to always carry the right sauces).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve1000

inmyprime said:


> . And some beef jerky for hymen bits.


I hadn't realized the scope of how much some people examine the aftermath.


----------



## twoofus

I fail to understand this obsession with virginity. A partner with good experience is nothing to be afraid of. You wouldn't employ a plumber who has never held a wrench before.


----------



## 269370

twoofus said:


> I fail to understand this obsession with virginity. A partner with good experience is nothing to be afraid of. You wouldn't employ a plumber who has never held a wrench before.


If he was a virgin, I would.


----------



## Primrose

NextTimeAround said:


> and you're also supposed to bleed the first time.


I never did.


----------



## Malaise

twoofus said:


> I fail to understand this obsession with virginity. A partner with good experience is nothing to be afraid of. You wouldn't employ a plumber who has never held a wrench before.


It's not the sex, it's the lie. The deception. The manipulation.


----------



## imperfectworld

I have contemplated this topic at much length for several years. Reading this thread I was about to conclude - reluctantly - that the OP not tell, when I saw how short she has been married. Because much of the damage of this type of lie accumulates over the years (even decades), there is a good opportunity to state the truth and both people still have quite a bit of choice in their future(s).


----------



## oldshirt

Coulda shoulda woulda


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

inmyprime said:


> Only if the husband ever wonders how come she’s so naturally gifted at that sex thing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or gets a look of disgust on her face when husband wants to do something they NEVER have done before, but she has memories from men in her past.


----------



## NextTimeAround

imperfectworld said:


> I have contemplated this topic at much length for several years. Reading this thread I was about to conclude - reluctantly - that the OP not tell, when I saw how short she has been married. Because much of the damage of this type of lie accumulates over the years (even decades), there is a good opportunity to state the truth and both people still have quite a bit of choice in their future(s).


This is kind of like anti abortionists who get outed for having had an abortion.


----------



## Diana7

twoofus said:


> I fail to understand this obsession with virginity. A partner with good experience is nothing to be afraid of. You wouldn't employ a plumber who has never held a wrench before.


Her husband is a man of faith, for him its important and I agree with him. Just because its not important to you, its so important to him that he went against the flow and the pressures and stayed a virgin himself. That's not so easy these days but he did, as do many other Christians. Christians know that it important not to have sex outside marriage either before or during. I love it that my husband has never had sex outside marriage. Its shows that he has stayed faithful to the teachings of his faith and the thing is that you learn together. Having sex with lots of people teaches you nothing, especially if these were casual brief relationships.


----------



## JustTheWife

twoofus said:


> Your sexual past is your and yours only. If you wish to divulge it, then it is your choice (but be discrete with other identities). However, never mention participating in an act that that you would refuse your partner.


My husband is not very sexual. I do not and will not refuse things with him (within reason of course). He can have all of me whenever he wants. I've done many things that I haven't done with my husband but I'd do it all with him if he wanted to.

I will try to get some help from a professional. I am confused by my past and consumed by it. it's like a confused mix of shame, guilt and yes, i'm ashamed to say that I still fantasize about it and have sexual feelings about it. It's always in my head. This adds to my feelings of guilt. It's not just in the past as I try to make myself believe. It's with me every day tormenting me with guilt and yes, also enticing me and luring me back into that world (I don't mean that i'm cheating but my mind drifts back there...) Ughh. I'm so messed up.


----------



## JustTheWife

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Or gets a look of disgust on her face when husband wants to do something they NEVER have done before, but she has memories from men in her past.


Why would I look disgusted. He's my husband. It would be very rude and hurtful to look at him with disgust.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> Only if the husband ever wonders how come she’s so naturally gifted at that sex thing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think i have to worry about being too good at sex but that almost sounds like a nice compliment. I was never outgoing sexually so i'm not like some amazing lover that takes charge or anything. I don't worry about raising suspicions with my great talent!!!


----------



## JustTheWife

karole said:


> Did you get tested for STDs before you were married? Sorry if that is too personal; however, what if you should test positive with HPV or something down the road, how will you explain it to your husband then?


No idea. I did what i should have done and got tested and i'm clean.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> People don’t seem to be getting it: she was never planning on telling him anything nor was she asking whether she should tell him. The OP wanted to know how to come to terms with this kind of situation and if there are others in her situation. She wanted reassurance and sympathy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I came to the ladies lounge hoping for understanding. I don't expect everyone to agree with my decisions or to have sympathy for me. I accept the criticisms that people have for me here.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think i have to worry about being too good at sex but that almost sounds like a nice compliment.


It was :smile2:


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Her husband is a man of faith, for him its important and I agree with him. Just because its not important to you, its so important to him that he went against the flow and the pressures and stayed a virgin himself. That's not so easy these days but he did, as do many other Christians. Christians know that it important not to have sex outside marriage either before or during. I love it that my husband has never had sex outside marriage. Its shows that he has stayed faithful to the teachings of his faith and the thing is that you learn together. Having sex with lots of people teaches you nothing, especially if these were casual brief relationships.


I agree and thank you for your posts. I was weak and took the wrong route. He had the courage to do the right thing. I'm sure he had urges too but he was strong and stood for his beliefs. I was weak, had weak loyalty to my Christianity.

Having sex with a lot of guys did teach me a lot but what it did teach me is probably best not learned. it's like it made me see the worst side of myself and the worst side of men. So much lust and disgusting things. It also taught me how low i could fall. Believe me, i've had some very low points and i'm not exactly sure what "virtue" really is but I sort of get the idea of it and I can't have any left. Like a journey to hell. Every encounter seemed to bring me lower and lower. like willingly humiliated and used up. Im not sure what that taught me about myself or the men that guided me down to hell but i'm sure i learned a lot.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JustTheWife said:


> I agree and thank you for your posts. I was weak and took the wrong route. He had the courage to do the right thing. I'm sure he had urges too but he was strong and stood for his beliefs. I was weak, had weak loyalty to my Christianity.
> 
> Having sex with a lot of guys did teach me a lot but what it did teach me is probably best not learned. it's like it made me see the worst side of myself and the worst side of men. So much lust and disgusting things. It also taught me how low i could fall. Believe me, i've had some very low points and i'm not exactly sure what "virtue" really is but I sort of get the idea of it and I can't have any left. Like a journey to hell. Every encounter seemed to bring me lower and lower. like willingly humiliated and used up. Im not sure what that taught me about myself or the men that guided me down to hell but i'm sure i learned a lot.


“There will be more joy in heaven over one repentant sinner than over 99 righteous men who don’t need to repent,”

Hopefully, your husband know, and believes that one, and is willing to practice it himself.


----------



## minimalME

JustTheWife said:


> *Well I came to the ladies lounge hoping for understanding.* I don't expect everyone to agree with my decisions or to have sympathy for me. I accept the criticisms that people have for me here.





JustTheWife said:


> Having sex with a lot of guys did teach me a lot but what it did teach me is probably best not learned. it's like it made me see the worst side of myself and the worst side of men. So much lust and disgusting things. It also taught me how low i could fall. Believe me, i've had some very low points and i'm not exactly sure what "virtue" really is but I sort of get the idea of it and I can't have any left. Like a journey to hell. Every encounter seemed to bring me lower and lower. like willingly humiliated and used up. Im not sure what that taught me about myself or the men that guided me down to hell but i'm sure i learned a lot.


I do understand. And your description of how it makes one feel...well, I could've written it myself.

Having had a few male family members behave badly, I was turned on sexually at a very, very young age. Not only did it create appetites, but their attention wrongly sent the message that male approval, affection and interest was gained via sex.

It's taken 50 years to temper myself. 

Extending grace to you is easy.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I agree and thank you for your posts. I was weak and took the wrong route. He had the courage to do the right thing. I'm sure he had urges too but he was strong and stood for his beliefs. I was weak, had weak loyalty to my Christianity.
> 
> Having sex with a lot of guys did teach me a lot but what it did teach me is probably best not learned. it's like it made me see the worst side of myself and the worst side of men. So much lust and disgusting things. It also taught me how low i could fall. Believe me, i've had some very low points and i'm not exactly sure what "virtue" really is but I sort of get the idea of it and I can't have any left. Like a journey to hell. Every encounter seemed to bring me lower and lower. like willingly humiliated and used up. Im not sure what that taught me about myself or the men that guided me down to hell but i'm sure i learned a lot.


That's why being repentant and owning up to your past along with the lies is the way forward. You will never be free of the guilt or shame unless you repent to God and then your husband. By doing this the burden will be lifted and you will be forgiven and free. Whatever your husband's reaction is and whatever he decides, you will be free of the weight you are carrying and that you will carry on carrying. 

If you are serious about wanting to follow God, and if you are serious about wanting to be a godly wife, then you must come clean and own up. The burden will get greater as time passes and eventually it will get too heavy for you. 
Counselling isn't what is needed, its honesty. I know it wont be easy to do, but that's life, we sometimes have to do the right thing which is the hardest thing. your husband deserves that at least. I honestly think that after a time of hurt and struggle, he may well chose to stay with you and forgive the lies, you have to trust God with that.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> “There will be more joy in heaven over one repentant sinner than over 99 righteous men who don’t need to repent,”
> 
> Hopefully, your husband know, and believes that one, and is willing to practice it himself.


:smile2: So true. Honestly we all make stupid mistakes, and do things we later regret, but God always gives us a way out and a way forward, and that is through repentance and honesty. It sets us free. :smile2:
God is prompting me to apologise a lot to my husband lately, not something I find it easy to do at all, but its good because it shows I am becoming more sensitive to Him. 
OP
The shame and guilt are your conscience telling you what you need to do and what will get rid of these negative emotions. Its the only way. Do you want to be free or not?


----------



## Thor

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Or gets a look of disgust on her face when husband wants to do something they NEVER have done before, but she has memories from men in her past.


Or she says to her husband, "I really liked it when we did xyz", but she's never done that with her hubby.... (I know a husband who discovered his wife had cheated from exactly this).


----------



## Nucking Futs

NextTimeAround said:


> This is kind of like anti abortionists who get outed for having had an abortion.


I don't want to thread jack this, but I've seen this statement twice now and it's blowing my mind a little bit. A lot of anti-abortion women have had abortions in the past. That experience is what turned them anti-abortion. There's rarely any chance of outing them over it since they'll tell you all about it anytime. Hell, the infamous "Jane Roe" from Roe v Wade was anti-abortion.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

JustTheWife said:


> I agree and thank you for your posts. I was weak and took the wrong route. He had the courage to do the right thing. I'm sure he had urges too but he was strong and stood for his beliefs. I was weak, had weak loyalty to my Christianity.


And I STILL maintain that all you've got is his word that he was a virgin.

He believes *you* when you say you were a virgin, so why is so hard to believe that maybe he's telling the same story you are?

You'd be amazed at what some people get down to behind closed doors when the world ain't watchin'.


----------



## JustTheWife

minimalME said:


> I do understand. And your description of how it makes one feel...well, I could've written it myself.
> 
> Having had a few male family members behave badly, I was turned on sexually at a very, very young age. Not only did it create appetites, but their attention wrongly sent the message that male approval, affection and interest was gained via sex.
> 
> It's taken 50 years to temper myself.
> 
> Extending grace to you is easy.


Thank you so much. I really needed that.


----------



## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> And I STILL maintain that all you've got is his word that he was a virgin.
> 
> He believes *you* when you say you were a virgin, so why is so hard to believe that maybe he's telling the same story you are?
> 
> You'd be amazed at what some people get down to behind closed doors when the world ain't watchin'.


Maybe they had sex with each other before marriage, it was dark and they don't remember and now they are both worried the other is going to find out that neither are virgins anymore?


----------



## JustTheWife

Thor said:


> Or she says to her husband, "I really liked it when we did xyz", but she's never done that with her hubby.... (I know a husband who discovered his wife had cheated from exactly this).


That won't happen. We don't talk about sex like that. Might make a good plot twist in a movie though.


----------



## Lostinthought61

you really haven't answered the question of Character....to be honest you are not alone and this is what really bugs me of so called christians....they speak a good game, but when it come to their own self there the rules don't apply...you falsified your past to suit your need which says a lot about you character, it says that if you will falsify this what else in the future will you falsify...or better yet your husband hides something from you in the future and you turn to him and say "its like a don't even know you" who will be the hypocrite then. you created a small snow ball...it will only get bigger in the future.


----------



## ConanHub

Lostinthought61 said:


> you really haven't answered the question of Character....to be honest you are not alone and this is what really bugs me of so called christians....they speak a good game, but when it come to their own self there the rules don't apply...you falsified your past to suit your need which says a lot about you character, it says that if you will falsify this what else in the future will you falsify...or better yet your husband hides something from you in the future and you turn to him and say "its like a don't even know you" who will be the hypocrite then. you created a small snow ball...it will only get bigger in the future.


You are right. Christians aren't better than anyone and make bad choices. We should repent and make it right when we can however.

Being a Christian doesn't mean you don't screw up. It absolutely should mean that you make your screw up right if you can.


----------



## cashcratebob

JustTheWife said:


> That won't happen. We don't talk about sex like that. Might make a good plot twist in a movie though.


And the following quote:
My husband is not very sexual. I do not and will not refuse things with him (within reason of course). He can have all of me whenever he wants. I've done many things that I haven't done with my husband but I'd do it all with him if he wanted to.

I will try to get some help from a professional. I am confused by my past and consumed by it. it's like a confused mix of shame, guilt and yes, *i'm ashamed to say that I still fantasize about it and have sexual feelings about it.* It's always in my head. This adds to my feelings of guilt. It's not just in the past as I try to make myself believe.* It's with me every day tormenting me with guilt and yes, also enticing me and luring me back into that world (I don't mean that i'm cheating but my mind drifts back there...) Ughh. I'm so messed up. 

You need to tell your husband. Seriously, the danger I sense in your words is palpable. There is grace and mercy to be had but goodness, your husband needs to know about this struggle. He needs to be able to love you while also holding you accountable, just as you might hold him. 

You've stated you fantasize about your past, you've stated you don't communicate about sex, you've stated that the sex is just ok with him (I think I saw that). I can't believe other TAMers haven't already chimed in on these points. These are huge issues in your heart and between you and your husband that could lead this marriage down a dark path. Not to mention...you seemed to literally trickle truth the forum itself. I have read stories from men on this forum whose wives cheated on them; their backstory being similar, the lie, the fantasy, the nagging little unsatisfaction with the sexual part of the relationship.

I believe your husband can forgive you if he is a real Christian, I also believe he should most certainly forgive you for the lie that you told from the start (I'll get eaten alive for that, but I believe it). But you have to be honest now before the situation grows more into an awful beast of a burden...a burden that could breed resentment, resentment that leads to anger and temptation. You've only been married a year, you can make a difference right now for the better. I do not believe that infidelity (EA and PA) reconciliation can ever lead to a better marriage than before the infidelity; but this situation, with the right communication, can make this marriage stronger. Pray, seek mercy and find grace, stand confidently but humbly in the assurance that God has forgiven you. Then talk to your husband and be prepared to then offer grace towards his initial and ongoing actions. It will take some time. He will probably sin against you in his words/actions. Again, grace. 

Also, please don't think of your husbands view on sex before marriage and virginity as part of the problem. These are circumstances surrounding the problem, which is the lie. You bought what your husband was selling and you used a false currency. That is the problem. 

But it all can be overcome.*


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

JustTheWife said:


> That won't happen. We don't talk about sex like that. Might make a good plot twist in a movie though.


A husband & wife SHOULD be able to talk to each about sex. Either should be able to tell the other "I want you to do XXX the XXX then slap my XXX & then XXX."

That's part of the trust in marriage.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

She'sStillGotIt said:


> And I STILL maintain that all you've got is his word that he was a virgin.
> 
> He believes *you* when you say you were a virgin, so why is so hard to believe that maybe he's telling the same story you are?
> 
> You'd be amazed at what some people get down to behind closed doors when the world ain't watchin'.


Why is it so hard to believe he was a virgin?


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> My husband is not very sexual. I do not and will not refuse things with him (within reason of course). He can have all of me whenever he wants. I've done many things that I haven't done with my husband but I'd do it all with him if he wanted to.
> 
> 
> 
> I will try to get some help from a professional. I am confused by my past and consumed by it. it's like a confused mix of shame, guilt and yes, i'm ashamed to say that I still fantasize about it and have sexual feelings about it. It's always in my head. This adds to my feelings of guilt. It's not just in the past as I try to make myself believe. It's with me every day tormenting me with guilt and yes, also enticing me and luring me back into that world (I don't mean that i'm cheating but my mind drifts back there...) Ughh. I'm so messed up.




What is it about the past that’s so alluring? Or that’s luring you back in? Which part of it? Letting guys take advantage of you? Is it a mental or physical aspect of it?
It can’t be just the sex acts. There must be some other appeal.
I’m just curious because I don’t really it.

I can do all the dirty things (most of them) with wife and don’t really get the point of doing them with strangers. It takes me a while to ‘tune in’ to someone, sexually, before I can enjoy and be myself, so the strange encounters you describe of, would not do anything for me at all.
For you maybe it’s the opposite: you want to escape form ‘yourself’ perhaps?

I still think it’s the repressive religious culture that’s in part to blame...Though it doesn’t need to be repressive. People seem to make it repressive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

I actually think the point of this thread should not be so much about whether to tell or not...it’s about how to keep you married, without slipping back. I’d put the probability of slipping back at about 80% at this point...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

cashcratebob said:


> And the following quote:
> My husband is not very sexual. I do not and will not refuse things with him (within reason of course). He can have all of me whenever he wants. I've done many things that I haven't done with my husband but I'd do it all with him if he wanted to.
> 
> I will try to get some help from a professional. I am confused by my past and consumed by it. it's like a confused mix of shame, guilt and yes, *i'm ashamed to say that I still fantasize about it and have sexual feelings about it.* It's always in my head. This adds to my feelings of guilt. It's not just in the past as I try to make myself believe.* It's with me every day tormenting me with guilt and yes, also enticing me and luring me back into that world (I don't mean that i'm cheating but my mind drifts back there...) Ughh. I'm so messed up.
> 
> You need to tell your husband. Seriously, the danger I sense in your words is palpable. There is grace and mercy to be had but goodness, your husband needs to know about this struggle. He needs to be able to love you while also holding you accountable, just as you might hold him.
> 
> You've stated you fantasize about your past, you've stated you don't communicate about sex, you've stated that the sex is just ok with him (I think I saw that). I can't believe other TAMers haven't already chimed in on these points. These are huge issues in your heart and between you and your husband that could lead this marriage down a dark path. Not to mention...you seemed to literally trickle truth the forum itself. I have read stories from men on this forum whose wives cheated on them; their backstory being similar, the lie, the fantasy, the nagging little unsatisfaction with the sexual part of the relationship.
> 
> I believe your husband can forgive you if he is a real Christian, I also believe he should most certainly forgive you for the lie that you told from the start (I'll get eaten alive for that, but I believe it). But you have to be honest now before the situation grows more into an awful beast of a burden...a burden that could breed resentment, resentment that leads to anger and temptation. You've only been married a year, you can make a difference right now for the better. I do not believe that infidelity (EA and PA) reconciliation can ever lead to a better marriage than before the infidelity; but this situation, with the right communication, can make this marriage stronger. Pray, seek mercy and find grace, stand confidently but humbly in the assurance that God has forgiven you. Then talk to your husband and be prepared to then offer grace towards his initial and ongoing actions. It will take some time. He will probably sin against you in his words/actions. Again, grace.
> 
> Also, please don't think of your husbands view on sex before marriage and virginity as part of the problem. These are circumstances surrounding the problem, which is the lie. You bought what your husband was selling and you used a false currency. That is the problem.
> 
> But it all can be overcome.*


*

Good post, being honest is the way forward and the only way to be free of all of the shame and guilt. That's why God offers forgiveness, so that we can have a fresh start and a new beginning. Not telling him will only make things worse. telling him will give the opportunity for forgiveness and reconciliation and a good marriage.*


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> What is it about the past that’s so alluring? Or that’s luring you back in? Which part of it? Letting guys take advantage of you? Is it a mental or physical aspect of it?
> It can’t be just the sex acts. There must be some other appeal.
> I’m just curious because I don’t really it.
> 
> I can do all the dirty things (most of them) with wife and don’t really get the point of doing them with strangers. It takes me a while to ‘tune in’ to someone, sexually, before I can enjoy and be myself, so the strange encounters you describe of, would not do anything for me at all.
> For you maybe it’s the opposite: you want to escape form ‘yourself’ perhaps?
> 
> I still think it’s the repressive religious culture that’s in part to blame...Though it doesn’t need to be repressive. People seem to make it repressive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I cant say I have found it repressive, there is a whole book of the bible about godly sex, and its not prim or proper either. God is all for good sex, but within marriage.


----------



## Diana7

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Why is it so hard to believe he was a virgin?


Its not for most of us. I know many people who were virgins when they married.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I have found it repressive, there is a whole book of the bible about godly sex, and its not prim or proper either. God is all for good sex, but within marriage.




Well no sex before marriage is sort of repressive. It probably wasn’t meant to be at the time but it’s basically commanding someone to suppress their sexuality until consummating the marriage. Problem is people don’t get married that young anymore; there are careers/jobs to think about to get financial security sorted out first. 
Where I went to school (in UK), most of the Catholic girls were actually among the horniest for some reason (from what the guys told me): they would preserve their virginity but take things in all kinds of unholy holes I have not heard of before (at that age); basically they found loopholes...among other holes... Technically they didn’t break any ‘rules’ but my god, the stories I heard made me want to hide....mainly because I needed privacy to ‘digest’ that information 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cashcratebob

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I have found it repressive, there is a whole book of the bible about godly sex, and its not prim or proper either. God is all for good sex, but within marriage.


As a Christian man I can say there is enough literature out there to support the notion that various churches push a certain type of sex within marriage that many might consider repressive. I've seen the books and I would say it is repressive. But does the bible? no absolutely not, I agree with you. 

Also, IMO there are certain things that simply aren't ok from a Christian perspective; degrading acts and fantasy play that is extreme come to mind. 

But as it pertains to the situation at hand, I think what was taking place in the past likely fell within that not ok section. Maybe not and I don't care to know. But she makes it sound that way.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Well no sex before marriage is sort of repressive. It probably wasn’t meant to be at the time but it’s basically commanding someone to suppress their sexuality until consummating the marriage. Problem is people don’t get married that young anymore; there are careers/jobs to think about to get financial security sorted out first.
> Where I went to school (in UK), most of the Catholic girls were actually among the horniest for some reason (from what the guys told me): they would preserve their virginity but take things in all kinds of unholy holes I have not heard of before (at that age); basically they found loopholes...among other holes... Technically they didn’t break any ‘rules’ but my god, the stories I heard made me want to hide....mainly because I needed privacy to ‘digest’ that information
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Well I don't see it as repressive. Its certainly do able if you are determined and there is no reason why people have to marry later now. They just chose to because they live together for years first. I married at 19 as did my 2 best friends at the time who are still both happily married 42 years later. 

Going to a RC school doesn't make you a Christian.


----------



## 269370

Oh and many ‘good Catholic boys’ (some are still good friends of mine) who waited patiently until marriage for sex, found out that they actually liked men a bit more...
OP seems dissatisfied with her sex life with her husband, it has to be said. Maybe that’s what’s ‘luring her back’ to the past?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

cashcratebob said:


> As a Christian man I can say there is enough literature out there to support the notion that various churches push a certain type of sex within marriage that many might consider repressive. I've seen the books and I would say it is repressive. But does the bible? no absolutely not, I agree with you.
> 
> Also, IMO there are certain things that simply aren't ok from a Christian perspective; degrading acts and fantasy play that is extreme come to mind.
> 
> But as it pertains to the situation at hand, I think what was taking place in the past likely fell within that not ok section. Maybe not and I don't care to know. But she makes it sound that way.


Yes I agree that there are certain things that aren't ok for us, but there are so many things that are ok. 

I think the RC church were responsible for a lot of that repression, their priests have to be celibate after all and that's not biblical. In recent years there has been a lot of Christian teaching on the importance of good sex in marriage so the tide has turned. 
I haven't experienced a church that has repressive teaching on sex in marriage, The pastor in our last church said that its important to have lots of good sex in marriage. :smile2:


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Oh and many ‘good Catholic boys’ (some are still good friends of mine) who waited patiently until marriage for sex, found out that they actually liked men a bit more...
> OP seems dissatisfied with her sex life with her husband, it has to be said. Maybe that’s what’s ‘luring her back’ to the past?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's why its so important to wait, and also to communicate with our spouse on our sex lives. Also not to hide anything as she has done.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Yes I agree that there are certain things that aren't ok for us, but there are so many things that are ok.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the RC church were responsible for a lot of that repression, their priests have to be celibate after all and that's not biblical. In recent years there has been a lot of Christian teaching on the importance of good sex in marriage so the tide has turned.
> 
> I haven't experienced a church that has repressive teaching on sex in marriage, The pastor in our last church said that its important to have lots of good sex in marriage. :smile2:




Define ‘good’. The best sex I had was ‘bad’, very bad sex. I would go so far as to say that the best sex I had was NASTY sex  Good sex sounds terrible 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I agree and thank you for your posts. I was weak and took the wrong route. He had the courage to do the right thing. I'm sure he had urges too but he was strong and stood for his beliefs. I was weak, had weak loyalty to my Christianity.
> 
> Having sex with a lot of guys did teach me a lot but what it did teach me is probably best not learned. it's like it made me see the worst side of myself and the worst side of men. So much lust and disgusting things. It also taught me how low i could fall. Believe me, i've had some very low points and i'm not exactly sure what "virtue" really is but I sort of get the idea of it and I can't have any left. Like a journey to hell. Every encounter seemed to bring me lower and lower. like willingly humiliated and used up. Im not sure what that taught me about myself or the men that guided me down to hell but i'm sure i learned a lot.


It's really weird. You feel guilty about stuff nobody is telling you to feel guilty about (having plenty of sex), and you don't feel guilty about stuff everyone* is *telling* you to feel guilty about (not lying to your husband) and no matter what anyone says, nothing seems to be changing  
There's nothing wrong with all that kinky sex. It's almost as if you wish there was something wrong with having had all that sex? 

*I am not convinced you _have_ to tell him but it doesn't mean you shouldn't feel guilty for not having been honest


----------



## Nucking Futs

inmyprime said:


> *It's really weird. You feel guilty about stuff nobody is telling you to feel guilty about (having plenty of sex), and you don't feel guilty about stuff everyone* is telling you to feel guilty about (not lying to your husband) and no matter what anyone says, nothing seems to be changing  *
> There's nothing wrong with all that kinky sex. It's almost as if you wish there was something wrong with having had all that sex?
> 
> *I am not convinced you _have_ to tell him but it doesn't mean you shouldn't feel guilty for not having been honest


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## NextTimeAround

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I have found it repressive, there is a whole book of the bible about godly sex, and its not prim or proper either. God is all for good sex, but within marriage.


yeah, most of us prefer mongamous sex:


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Define ‘good’. The best sex I had was ‘bad’, very bad sex. I would go so far as to say that the best sex I had was NASTY sex  Good sex sounds terrible
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good is good, not sure what you mean. Its what the 2 married people enjoy together, I see sex as good and not bad.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Good is good, not sure what you mean. Its what the 2 married people enjoy together, I see sex as good and not bad.


Haha, no, don't worry, that was a joke. 'Good sex' just triggers an association of 'forever missionary position' to me for some reason. 0:nono::rules::whip:


----------



## Primrose

inmyprime said:


> Well no sex before marriage is sort of repressive. It probably wasn’t meant to be at the time but it’s basically commanding someone to suppress their sexuality until consummating the marriage. Problem is people don’t get married that young anymore; there are careers/jobs to think about to get financial security sorted out first.


You do raise a really good point here. My great grandmother married at 13. My paternal grandmother at 17. My maternal grandmother at 18. I think a lot of us could easily say we waited until marriage if we married that young; fresh out of school. However, a good portion of us do not find our potential spouses until we are in our 20's (some even older). I find that age frame a lot less realistic in terms of abstaining.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Primrose said:


> You do raise a really good point here. My great grandmother married at 13. My paternal grandmother at 17. My maternal grandmother at 18. I think a lot of us could easily say we waited until marriage if we married that young; fresh out of school. However, a good portion of us do not find our potential spouses until we are in our 20's (some even older). I find that age frame a lot less realistic in terms of abstaining.


This is why religious fanatics continue to marry off their kids at 16. Somehow putting your kids in a miserable situation they are unprepared to handle and with potentially life long consequences is preferable to taking a chance that they might fornicate.


----------



## MJJEAN

JustTheWife said:


> My husband is not very sexual.





JustTheWife said:


> We don't talk about sex like that.


I think I may have found the allure. In my experience, "not very sexual" is code for low libido prude. If the reason you can't get the past off your mind is that you miss the hot sex you used to have, perhaps teach your husband to be more sexual. For all you know, he's got more fantasies and urges than he's ever mentioned to you because he feels like a perv. Imagine how pleased and relieved he'd be to find you want more, too.


----------



## 269370

MJJEAN said:


> I think I may have found the allure. In my experience, "not very sexual" is code for low libido prude. If the reason you can't get the past off your mind is that you miss the hot sex you used to have, perhaps teach your husband to be more sexual. For all you know, he's got more fantasies and urges than he's ever mentioned to you because he feels like a perv. Imagine how pleased and relieved he'd be to find you want more, too.


Or...maybe he is just not that into sex? Waiting too long can have its problems...(and its reasons).


----------



## Nucking Futs

inmyprime said:


> Or...maybe he is just not that into sex? Waiting too long can have its problems...(and its reasons).


Pure speculation. He might have some kind of sexual hangup or problem, or he might just be sincere in his beliefs. Good way to find out is to tell him the truth and see how he reacts.


----------



## 269370

Nucking Futs said:


> Pure speculation. He might have some kind of sexual hangup or problem, or he might just be sincere in his beliefs. Good way to find out is to tell him the truth and see how he reacts.


The fact that he's not sexually adventurous or particularly interested in sex is not speculation: JustTheWife brought it up to our attention. Nor the fact that she longs and finds it difficult for her mind not to go back to the more 'adventurous' type of sex she had in the past (and liked).
If I said that he might be gay, that would be speculation...but I didn't.


----------



## Nucking Futs

inmyprime said:


> The fact that he's not sexually adventurous or particularly interested in sex is not speculation: JustTheWife brought it up to our attention. Nor the fact that she longs and finds it difficult for her mind not to go back to the more 'adventurous' type of sex she had in the past (and liked).
> If I said that he might be gay, that would be speculation...but I didn't.


The part that's pure speculation is that he's got some kind of sexual hangup. A year ago he was a virgin and he's only had sex with someone that's pretending to be a virgin. Not much chance he's watched porn, he probably wouldn't have stayed a virgin if he had, so the fact that he's not sexually adventurous could just be simple ignorance. Like I said before, being honest with him is how she can find out.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Haha, no, don't worry, that was a joke. 'Good sex' just triggers an association of 'forever missionary position' to me for some reason. 0:nono::rules::whip:


Good grief no. :smile2:Not biblical at all. Read song of songs.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This is why religious fanatics continue to marry off their kids at 16. Somehow putting your kids in a miserable situation they are unprepared to handle and with potentially life long consequences is preferable to taking a chance that they might fornicate.


Which religious fanatics are those? A few weird sects of Mormons maybe? Few Christians marry today before 20 and usually much later. My husband was 25 before he married his former wife. In most marriages that I have know happen recently between Christians, the couple were between early 20's and late 20's.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Or...maybe he is just not that into sex? Waiting too long can have its problems...(and its reasons).


Waiting for marriage doesn't mean that he has issues, but that he has strong beliefs. If/when she tells him the truth hopefully they can have better openness and communication about their future sex life. They have only been married a year.


----------



## uhtred

Waiting for marriage doesn't mean that someone is low desire, but enthusiastic frequent sex before marriage is a good indication that they are not LD. There are certainly cases of bait / switch, but I think they are less common than people simply being LD.



Diana7 said:


> Waiting for marriage doesn't mean that he has issues, but that he has strong beliefs. If/when she tells him the truth hopefully they can have better openness and communication about their future sex life. They have only been married a year.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Which religious fanatics are those? A few weird sects of Mormons maybe? Few Christians marry today before 20 and usually much later. My husband was 25 before he married his former wife. In most marriages that I have know happen recently between Christians, the couple were between early 20's and late 20's.



Was he a virgin before 25?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> Which religious fanatics are those? A few weird sects of Mormons maybe? Few Christians marry today before 20 and usually much later. My husband was 25 before he married his former wife. In most marriages that I have know happen recently between Christians, the couple were between early 20's and late 20's.


 Visit the American south sometime. Our most religiously conservative area, the so-called “Bible Belt, has the highest divorce and poverty rates in the country. Fundamentalist Southern Baptists are our most vocal evangelical denomination, and the least successful in the marriage department.


----------



## minimalME

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Visit the American south sometime. Our most religiously conservative area, the so-called “Bible Belt, has the highest divorce and poverty rates in the country. Fundamentalist Southern Baptists are our most vocal evangelical denomination, and the least successful in the marriage department.


I was born and raised in the south, and I've been around a lot of Southern Baptists. I've not met any who're fanatical, or marrying as teens, or marrying off their children.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

minimalME said:


> I was born and raised in the south, and I've been around a lot of Southern Baptists. I've not met any who're fanatical, or marrying as teens, or marrying off their children.


Just look up the statistics of average age at the time of marriage state by state. Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Alabama are a whole lot lower than New York, Massachusetts and California.

And yes, Utah is lower yet.


----------



## minimalME

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Just look up the statistics of average age at the time of marriage state by state. Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Alabama are a whole lot lower than New York, Massachusetts and California.
> 
> And yes, Utah is lower yet.


People whose beliefs influence them in this way must keep to themselves. In mainstream circles, from my own experiences, I've not seen the extremes.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## arbitrator

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


*No matter how deep your innermost secrets are, they will always have the propensity to come out and rear their ugly head, when you least expect them to!

As soon as you were first serious with your H to be, is when you should have shared the unrequited truth with him! 

Had you done that, IMHO, you would have been in far better shape with him than you are now! *


----------



## Primrose

notmyrealname4 said:


> @JustTheWife
> 
> 
> So, since you've only been married about a year; can we assume that you still work outside the home?
> 
> I just worry about you financially if you told your husband the nitty-gritty truth; and he wanted a divorce. *Then how would you provide for yourself out in the world alone.*
> 
> Make sure to absolutely not get pregnant until you have resolved this issue.
> 
> I really hope things work out well for you. You sound so confused and unhappy. Best of luck going forward.


I assume the same way she did a year or two prior to getting involved with him. This marriage (hell, even the relationship) is still extremely new.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## JustTheWife

I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.

If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## Suspicious1

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


He does know you guys are married, under gods law, which should have been thr point of waiting. He should not feel any restrains within you're marriage, no?

My very Christian Aunt would say, if you're going to sin get marry. In spanish it has more convictions sorry if sounds hum drum, lol.

I was raised Christian myself , saw too many contradictions and went a different direction. When I hear such strong detachments within a marriage, as one has deep desires which are sometimes natural and those desires aren't met by the other spouse because of their faith it really blows my mind. 

Anyway what I feel and what he so hearty believes are two diffeent thing.

Good luck, I really hope this turns out well for you both I truly mean it.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Was he a virgin before 25?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes he has never had sex outside of marriage.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


You have to come clean. Its the only way to rid yourself of the feelings of guilt and shame.


----------



## MJJEAN

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


First, anything you consensually do within marriage is permissible. There are _many_ books on the subject.

Second, having hot, kinky, perhaps Dom/sub sex does happen within committed loving relationships. I'm a Switch, meaning I can be both Domme and sub, leaning more toward sub most of the time. DH and I love each other very much, he adores me, and we have some seriously hot, dirty, mind blowing, kinky, sex. We also have very mellow, loving, gentle sex. And everything in between.

Maybe finding out he's married to a woman that had a sex life and has some kinks would allow him to feel free to experiment with his own sexuality.


----------



## Randy2

"The Entire History of You" third episode of f British series Black Mirror. Set in an alternative reality where most people have "grains" recording everything they do, see, or hear, and allowing them to play back their memories in front of their eyes or on a screen for others to see, tells the story of a man who starts suspecting that his wife might have had an affair.

Creepy but compelling story. Made me glad my memory is starting to fail in old age, though it makes it more difficult to keep up with the detail of the white lies (aka omissions).


----------



## bandit.45

Its a roll of the dice. 

Say nothing, and then one day the past may rear its ugly head when you least expect it. Or, you may cruise through the future with no care and the truth of your past tucked neatly in the back corner of the attic. It's a 50/50 shot. 

But what is your integrity worth to you? You already defrauded your husband and entrapped him into a marriage without him knowing your sexual past. So I imagine your integrity is worth being married to him. If you can forgo integrity, and keep it a secret the rest of your life, then more power to you I guess. 

You just better pray than none of your ex-lovers ever runs into you at a party.


----------



## Thor

bandit.45 said:


> You just better pray than none of your ex-lovers ever runs into you at a party.


There are a million ways to be outed. A friend from the past moves to the same town and bumps into you both somewhere. She blurts out "Hey, I didn't know you moved here. The last time I heard anything was when you were dating old Jimbo and going to the submarine races at lookout point!" People say things without thinking first. Or an ex posts an old photo on social media and tags you, or a friend of an ex posts it (that happened with my now xw, a friend of her ex posted a photo and tagged her).

Or, while cuddling in the afterglow of sex with your spouse, you say "I've always liked that", when the "that" is something you've never done with your spouse.

Or, if you're not a really smoooth liar, your spouse comments about something in a movie, tv show, or news story and asks your view on it. Or in church you are asked a direct question unexpectedly. You react visibly, and maybe stutter a bit trying to find words. Most of us try not to lie even if we seek to deceive, so when surprised we stumble trying to deceive without lying. And the other person's gut tells them we are lying or hiding something.

To go a lifetime without the secret coming out will require a lot of luck plus a determination to be ready to always lie.


----------



## jlg07

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


I'd just like to make a comment here -- I don't think that FAITH in God wants a married man/woman to NOT enjoy sex, and I mean in ANY FORM that they like together (I DO think it stops at just the two of you). Doing non-vanilla sex, with just the two of you, can be part of the joy of being married. It is not "temptation" to have sex with your own wife...


----------



## bandit.45

cross post deleted


----------



## Cletus

bandit.45 said:


> The Bible impicity states that husband and wife are to use each other sexually. Nowhere in the Bible does God prohibit certain sex acts between man and wife. In fact, being the gracious and polite God that he is, he discreetly stays out of the bedroom.


Discreet being the keyword. You do know that he's watching, right?


----------



## bandit.45

cross post deleted


----------



## imperfectworld

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?


It is likely the following will happen to him:
1. Shock - shock equivalent to a close family member death
2. Curiosity and repeated cycles of asking for details, wishing he didn't know details, asking for more details...
3. "Mind movies" of you with others that he is powerless to control and can come any time day or night.
3. A deep personal dive into his own past, mostly showing as depression but could flare up into anger which has no logical outlet
4. Outwardly - acceptance, perspective, understanding - all the logical and good things that you know about his personality
5. Years of inward self-grief, bewilderment, depression. Perhaps fading with time, perhaps not. Triggers and mind movies that may never fade.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I've thought about this a lot and some of the comments here have been very helpful. One possibility is that if I told him, he might lose respect for me and start to treat me like just like his wh%re. He's the only guy who i've had sex with who cared for me. Nobody else did. To be honest, this could spark up our sex life. I've always been submissive and the idea of being "punished" for it is kind of exciting in a way. BUT I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO TURN INTO THIS. I want him to adore me.
> 
> 
> 
> If it awakens some sexual demons in him, I dont' think thats good for him or his faith. it might cause some seriously conflicts in him. He's done things to avoid temptations in life so if he finds out he's married to a "sl%t", what could that do to his sexuality?




Why do you keep referring to yourself as a sl%t? I am beginning to wonder if you like to be punished by your husband as a sexual kink  why not just role play, as a try out. Next time, dress up into something provocative, tell him you were a really bad sl%t and he needs to punish you real bad...That way you tell him your truth AND inject some excitement into your sex life. Problem solved. And people will finally stop pestering you here on this thread for not being honest...
Is it a solution or what? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## twoofus

inmyprime said:


> Why do you keep referring to yourself as a sl%t? I am beginning to wonder if you like to be punished by your husband as a sexual kink  why not just role play, as a try out. Next time, dress up into something provocative, tell him you were a really bad sl%t and he needs to punish you real bad...That way you tell him your truth AND inject some excitement into your sex life. Problem solved. And people will finally stop pestering you here on this thread for not being honest...
> Is it a solution or what?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn, that would definitely work for me if I was the OP's hubby!


----------



## JustTheWife

imperfectworld said:


> It is likely the following will happen to him:
> 1. Shock - shock equivalent to a close family member death
> 2. Curiosity and repeated cycles of asking for details, wishing he didn't know details, asking for more details...
> 3. "Mind movies" of you with others that he is powerless to control and can come any time day or night.
> 3. A deep personal dive into his own past, mostly showing as depression but could flare up into anger which has no logical outlet
> 4. Outwardly - acceptance, perspective, understanding - all the logical and good things that you know about his personality
> 5. Years of inward self-grief, bewilderment, depression. Perhaps fading with time, perhaps not. Triggers and mind movies that may never fade.


I agree. It's a roll of the dice.


----------



## jlg07

@JustTheWife -- just checking in to see how things worked out for you?


----------



## TJW

imperfectworld said:


> It is likely the following will happen to him:
> 1. Shock - shock equivalent to a close family member death
> 2. Curiosity and repeated cycles of asking for details, wishing he didn't know details, asking for more details...
> 3. "Mind movies" of you with others that he is powerless to control and can come any time day or night.
> 3. A deep personal dive into his own past, mostly showing as depression but could flare up into anger which has no logical outlet
> 4. Outwardly - acceptance, perspective, understanding - all the logical and good things that you know about his personality
> 5. Years of inward self-grief, bewilderment, depression. Perhaps fading with time, perhaps not. Triggers and mind movies that may never fade.


6. The receipt of every reference you make about sexuality as a veiled insult expressing your dissatisfaction with him and his ability.
7. The total and complete ruin of your marriage - being "there" in body, but having lost his desire and strong attraction to you which was once vital and foundational to your marriage. 
8. The adoration he once had for you will change to simple toleration.


----------



## NobodySpecial

oldshirt said:


> My concern however goes much deeper that some gal having a ****y past that she is trying to hide from her alter boy husband. Basically *all wives do that* to one degree or another (as do *many husbands*).


What Even <explitive>??


----------



## [email protected]

In the end she will compare her H with one of her lovers. It is almost inevitable.


----------



## TJW

[email protected] said:


> In the end she will compare her H with one of her lovers. It is almost inevitable.


And, it is inevitable that she will prefer her ex over her H.


----------



## manwithnoname

inmyprime said:


> Why do you keep referring to yourself as a sl%t? I am beginning to wonder if you like to be punished by your husband as a sexual kink  why not just role play, as a try out. Next time, dress up into something provocative, tell him you were a really bad sl%t and he needs to punish you real bad...That way you tell him your truth AND inject some excitement into your sex life. Problem solved. And people will finally stop pestering you here on this thread for not being honest...
> Is it a solution or what?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





twoofus said:


> Damn, that would definitely work for me if I was the OP's hubby!


I was told by my wife that she was a virgin and we waited for marriage. If she now said she was ****ty before we met and was with countless guys, the above would not work at all. It would backfire. 

An admission through role playing that is not really an admission, just to make the OP feel like she let him know the truth, is just as deceitful.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> Why do you keep referring to yourself as a sl%t? I am beginning to wonder if you like to be punished by your husband as a sexual kink  why not just role play, as a try out. Next time, dress up into something provocative, tell him you were a really bad sl%t and he needs to punish you real bad...That way you tell him your truth AND inject some excitement into your sex life. Problem solved. And people will finally stop pestering you here on this thread for not being honest...
> Is it a solution or what?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





manwithnoname said:


> I was told by my wife that she was a virgin and we waited for marriage. If she now said she was ****ty before we met and was with countless guys, the above would not work at all. It would backfire.
> 
> An admission through role playing that is not really an admission, just to make the OP feel like she let him know the truth, is just as deceitful.


Interesting idea which I have had fantasies about that. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways once the cat was out of the bag. I mean, I'd love to be punished for it in the bedroom but at other times I want him to think of me as his sweet and innocent rose petal. I think it would be kind of exciting to go between good girl and bad girl. But I know it can't happen like that.


----------



## manwithnoname

JustTheWife said:


> Interesting idea which I have had fantasies about that. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways once the cat was out of the bag. I mean, I'd love to be punished for it in the bedroom but at other times I want him to think of me as his sweet and innocent rose petal. *I think it would be kind of exciting to go between good girl and bad girl. But I know it can't happen like that.*


You can. Good girl in everyday life. Bad girl/****/***** in the bedroom. 

That's what I would want.......but don't get. (The first half I do get)

I doubt you can have that if he finds out your past.


----------



## [email protected]

It's not that she can't play a good girl/bad girl game. The problem is that one of her ghosts from the past will make its way into her mind. Then, even for a short time, her H will be in 2nd place, if not worse. I know of two such cases.
If a former lover was better in bed than her H, sooner or later, it will come out.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> Interesting idea which I have had fantasies about that. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways once the cat was out of the bag. I mean, I'd love to be punished for it in the bedroom but at other times I want him to think of me as his sweet and innocent rose petal. I think it would be kind of exciting to go between good girl and bad girl. But I know it can't happen like that.



I was half serious with that comment. Whether you tell him or not is IMO a less urgent issue. The question you need to ask yourself is whether you are ok playing this game (good girl/naughty ****) with your husband only going forward (since you obviously have a thing for it-which is normal IMO-everyone has fantasies) or whether you feel it is something you may be in danger of needing to act out for real in the future since the past is haunting you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Nothing I read said she'd start to compare H to exes.
Dear Lord, just tell him some things you'd like to try starting now. If you don't want to share your past, then don't. That might be best in some situations, maybe this one.

Don't over think it IMHO. 

You're doing great.


----------



## Suspicious1

JustTheWife said:


> Interesting idea which I have had fantasies about that. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways once the cat was out of the bag. I mean, I'd love to be punished for it in the bedroom but at other times I want him to think of me as his sweet and innocent rose petal. I think it would be kind of exciting to go between good girl and bad girl. But I know it can't happen like that.


Life is certainty designed to be unfair thats for sure.

I've tried some light bondage with my wife early on, and she does not want any part of it, nothing rough, no pulling of the hair, nothing! She'll let me do a few things but she does it for me, which isn't the same.

I hope things turn out well for you both, and a reawakening sparks up in him, as he begins to senses that you are a naughty girl in sheeps clothing!



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected]

I wouldn't be surprised is the H sensed something about her, but couldn't identify what it is. In fact, I know of a case just about like this one. The wife hid her experience from him, but eventually he found out, and left her.
He might have stayed had he known about her past from the beginning. Perhaps Just should spill the beans, making it as painless as possible. If she doesn't, it will eat at her anyway. It does now.


----------



## BradWesley2

manwithnoname said:


> You can. Good girl in everyday life. Bad girl/****/***** in the bedroom.
> 
> That's what I would want.......but don't get. (The first half I do get)
> 
> I doubt you can have that if he finds out your past.


Can't remember what lady here on TAM said it, referencing one of her relatives.

"Always be a lady in the parlor, and a wh*re in the bedroom"

Words to live by.


----------



## Suspicious1

I like a Jedi in the streets and a Sith in the sheets!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## DustyDog

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


I thought most religions made truth-telling one of the commandments?

We all have pasts. I'd guess 99% of us have things back there we aren't proud of. IMO, your closest most intimate partner in life needs to know all of it.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.


I think if your husband is devoted to his Lord enough to bring himself to marriage as a virgin, I think he will also be devoted enough to forgive you for lying to him. I think he will understand why you did and let this fall into the past.

The difficulty may come that he feels inferior and unable to "compete" with your past lovers, because he is inexperienced. It may require a long period of your efforts to build him up and make him understand that you don't compare him to others.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

Having been in this situation as the H, there were several different issues that popped up..

1. After I found out, (because she had a very strong aversion to receiving oral, told me she hated how I went down on her when I NEVER had), I told her I married her because I wanted to build our experiences TOGETHER, NOT to be told that she had "Been there, done that" with someone else and didn't want to do it with me.

2. My dream of always being the only one was crushed. I felt robbed of the years I spent saving myself for just her. My gift thrown in the trash. I had always felt strongly about saving myself for marriage. I had opportunities for sex, I didn't take them as I could tell the girls I was with wanted a good time, not marriage. I was looking more for marriage.
@JustTheWife , if you do tell him, I would caution you on then saying "I don't like doing x or y". You H could very well want to try new things, and you telling him you were a virgin could have made him feel like BOTH of you would try them together. Not to threadjack, I have always wanted to give my wife oral, she has made it clear she down not want it. I yelled a bit asking her how she could lie so easily in the pastor's office during pre-marital counseling.


----------



## JustTheWife

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Having been in this situation as the H, there were several different issues that popped up..
> 
> 1. After I found out, (because she had a very strong aversion to receiving oral, told me she hated how I went down on her when I NEVER had), I told her I married her because I wanted to build our experiences TOGETHER, NOT to be told that she had "Been there, done that" with someone else and didn't want to do it with me.
> 
> 2. My dream of always being the only one was crushed. I felt robbed of the years I spent saving myself for just her. My gift thrown in the trash. I had always felt strongly about saving myself for marriage. I had opportunities for sex, I didn't take them as I could tell the girls I was with wanted a good time, not marriage. I was looking more for marriage.
> 
> @JustTheWife , if you do tell him, I would caution you on then saying "I don't like doing x or y". You H could very well want to try new things, and you telling him you were a virgin could have made him feel like BOTH of you would try them together. Not to threadjack, I have always wanted to give my wife oral, she has made it clear she down not want it. I yelled a bit asking her how she could lie so easily in the pastor's office during pre-marital counseling.


Thank you for your response and for sharing this with me. It sounds really difficult and I'm sorry. I would never, ever, try to give an attitude like "been there done that" to my husband. I also would not say no to him for anything. I did not say No to all these other guys so why would I say No to my husband for things that he might want me to do. I mean what kind of wife would I said No to my husband for things that I let strangers do to me??? That would be so cruel. Anyway I don't really have this probelm. My problem is the opposite and my husband is not adventurous at all. We don't talk about sex and he never asked me to do things. Sometimes I feel hurt because it's all there for him. I would do whatever he wants and it's like he's not interested. just basic sex a few times a month or whatever. I sometimes think how all these other guys wanted all of me. And they wanted more. They wanted everything. Why is it like he wants nothing.

I dont' understand what you mean about lying to the pastor. Was that about the oral sex? Sorry if I'm thick but it just seems odd to be talking about that with the pastor. We had many sessions with the pastor and I lied about being pure there too. 

I think your number 2 above is what it would be like with my husband. About the gift being thrown in the trash. I got really sad when I read that. I can totally see him feeling that that. I mean however sometimes i feel like my gift is thrown in the trash when he seems like he doesnt want all of my physically. if you put it like that maybe my gift to him is my body and all of me and he just throws it in the trash. I'm not trying to turn it around but it's just that maybe we are both going to feel hurt and bad.

I know he's never had a woman take off all of her clothes and offer to do ANYTHING for him. I know that I have not done everything right in my life but this is my special gift to him. Why doesn't he want me like that?


----------



## JustTheWife

TJW said:


> I think if your husband is devoted to his Lord enough to bring himself to marriage as a virgin, I think he will also be devoted enough to forgive you for lying to him. I think he will understand why you did and let this fall into the past.
> 
> The difficulty may come that he feels inferior and unable to "compete" with your past lovers, because he is inexperienced. It may require a long period of your efforts to build him up and make him understand that you don't compare him to others.


Thank you for understanding. That makes sense. You're right that it's not about comparing. I mean those guys were like just sex and it's completely different in a marriage. I don't think its' about better or worse or anything like that. it's just very different.


----------



## JustTheWife

[email protected] said:


> It's not that she can't play a good girl/bad girl game. The problem is that one of her ghosts from the past will make its way into her mind. Then, even for a short time, her H will be in 2nd place, if not worse. I know of two such cases.
> If a former lover was better in bed than her H, sooner or later, it will come out.


Like I said in my other post, it can't be about comparing at all. You just can't compare married sex with casual sex. Not saying better or worse but you just can't go down that route. I mean, how do you take all these experiences across all these guys and compare to your husband. Or would it be about comparing one guy to your husband. That's what I don't understand about comparing. Like if you take your favorite little parts of every experience it makes like a super partner that nobody could compete with!


----------



## Diana7

Lying to a spouse about anything is wrong. Lying about being a virgin having had many past sexual partners is a massive things and you do need to be honest with him. He may or may not end the marriage, that is his choice, you married him under false pretences. I am not sure I could trust again after such a deception but he may be able to, in time. 
You conscience will not leave you alone till you tell him, it will eat you up. If you are a Christian then its not an option to lie and deceive. We are told to be honest and not deceive others.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Diana7 said:


> Lying to a spouse about anything is wrong. Lying about being a virgin having had many past sexual partners is a massive things and you do need to be honest with him. He may or may not end the marriage, that is his choice, you married him under false pretences. I am not sure I could trust again after such a deception but he may be able to, in time.
> You conscience will not leave you alone till you tell him, it will eat you up. If you are a Christian then its not an option to lie and deceive. We are told to be honest and not deceive others.












I think we have seen at least one or two other threads like this usually posted by the husband after he found out. In one such case he was told by some to suck it up. I think a "Christian" marriage begun under false pretenses is not really a Christian marriage IMO. If you lie and deceive to get a spouse what kind of foundation is that for a 'Christian" home? Just a thught.


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Lying to a spouse about anything is wrong. Lying about being a virgin having had many past sexual partners is a massive things and you do need to be honest with him. He may or may not end the marriage, that is his choice, you married him under false pretences. I am not sure I could trust again after such a deception but he may be able to, in time.
> You conscience will not leave you alone till you tell him, it will eat you up. If you are a Christian then its not an option to lie and deceive. We are told to be honest and not deceive others.


You are right. It is eating away at me. Since i first posted i saw a therapist to try to start to work through some of this. It's hard because i don't have any money for this but I would like to go to a few more sessions. I've had 2 sessions already and she's trying to help me understand my promiscuity and she sees it like it was a way of hurting myself like self harming or somethign. you know like some people might cut or be anorexic or whatever. This was like my way of hurting myself. I never really thought of it like that and i don't know much about it. Maybe that should be another thread to see if other women had this. I don't know.

Anyway, she suggeested that I work out my own issues around sexuality before I even think about telling him any of this. I don't know if you agree with that but I think it makes a lot of sense. I am saving a little bit of cash at a time for my next session which i aim for in a few weeks. Slowly i think i will get there but I am going to take her advice and not rush to telling him anything at this point.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> You are right. It is eating away at me. Since i first posted i saw a therapist to try to start to work through some of this. It's hard because i don't have any money for this but I would like to go to a few more sessions. I've had 2 sessions already and she's trying to help me understand my promiscuity and she sees it like it was a way of hurting myself like self harming or somethign. you know like some people might cut or be anorexic or whatever. This was like my way of hurting myself. I never really thought of it like that and i don't know much about it. Maybe that should be another thread to see if other women had this. I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, she suggeested that I work out my own issues around sexuality before I even think about telling him any of this. I don't know if you agree with that but I think it makes a lot of sense. I am saving a little bit of cash at a time for my next session which i aim for in a few weeks. Slowly i think i will get there but I am going to take her advice and not rush to telling him anything at this point.




I feel like the bigger problem than telling vs not telling your husband is the fact that you have a husband who is not lusting for you.
I think eventually it will leave you very frustrated and longing for something else. It’s a shame because it is possible to have a marriage where both partners are craving for each other and fulfil each other’s fantasies. They may be craving for each other with different intensity or frequency need but fundamentally, the raw attraction has to be there for a marriage to work.
One of the most common fantasies for women is to be ‘punished’ for being naughty and sub/dom dynamic in bedroom is pretty common. I don’t think my wife could live without it. I had to do a lot of ‘homework’ to do it properly. You could experience it in your marriage rather than having thoughts of needing to get it somewhere else.
I’m not sure why your therapist likens this desire to self harm. It’s perfectly normal and very common for a woman to want to be dominated and lusted after.

Have you discussed with him that you miss certain aspects in your sex life? Religion shouldn’t hinder his desire for you and I’m sure he could fill that gap for you if he knew that you felt this way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I know he's never had a woman take off all of her clothes and offer to do ANYTHING for him. I know that I have not done everything right in my life but this is my special gift to him. Why doesn't he want me like that?



Because he feels he already ‘has’ you and doesn’t need to go out of his way to show you how much he wants you.
Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to tell him. I don’t think you should feel pressured by religion or whatnot to have to tell him: it’s your past, it’s you life. But telling him might be a wake up call for him.

I don’t know why religion makes things so complicated...You could be having kinky sex with him if he knew WHO you were.
If my wife told me she used to have urges of being a **** i would be ‘punishing’ her right now in the bedroom. It wouldn’t be a problem for me I don’t think.

If you don’t do anything about it, lack of sexual compatibility will most definitely lead you to find somebody else in the future and hurt him much more later on. This kind of thing doesn’t just disappear because your rational mind is telling you it is ‘wrong’ and now that you are married your urges are supposed to disappear. It doesn’t work like that.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> You are right. It is eating away at me. Since i first posted i saw a therapist to try to start to work through some of this. It's hard because i don't have any money for this but I would like to go to a few more sessions. I've had 2 sessions already and she's trying to help me understand my promiscuity and she sees it like it was a way of hurting myself like self harming or somethign. you know like some people might cut or be anorexic or whatever. This was like my way of hurting myself. I never really thought of it like that and i don't know much about it. Maybe that should be another thread to see if other women had this. I don't know.
> 
> Anyway, she suggeested that I work out my own issues around sexuality before I even think about telling him any of this. I don't know if you agree with that but I think it makes a lot of sense. I am saving a little bit of cash at a time for my next session which i aim for in a few weeks. Slowly i think i will get there but I am going to take her advice and not rush to telling him anything at this point.


To be honest, I don't agree. Why we did things in the past shouldn't stop us being honest with our spouse in the present. The fact is that you did lie to him. That's the issue. We can all find reasons to excuse why we did this and that, but the marriage was built on lies from the start. You trying to tell him what the counsellor thinks will make little difference to him. I am concerned that the counsellor will tell you not to mention it and I don't think you can live with that, I couldn't. 

Of course he will be shocked and devastated and will need lots of time to let it sink in and pray and think about what to do. I hope that he will stay with you, but the trust will take a very long time to rebuild. 

This is like one of those things that will just get worse with time. You are using excuses not to tell him, the longer you leave it the harder it will get. 

Just tell him, you will be relieved after you have, whatever the outcome.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I sometimes think how all these other guys wanted all of me. And they wanted more. They wanted everything. Why is it like he wants nothing.


Inexperience. Inexperience causes your husband to "stick to" what he knows. He's afraid to move into the unknown territory. A man's sexual knowledge, ability, endowment, is a very sensitive area of his life. And, there is nothing more in life than wanting to be his wife's hero. 

He may also think that pursuing other than "vanilla" might offend you. He loves you and doesn't want to make you uncomfortable in any way.

I think it is an absolutely fine idea to continue to work with your therapist before telling your husband, to make sure of your own thoughts and feelings before doing this haphazardly. I do not believe this violates our responsibility as Christians to be truthful, because the clear intent of your heart in this is to "speak the truth in love". Ephesians 4:15 (NIV) continues this injunction with a wonderful promise:

_.... speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ._

There is obviously no more important member of the "body" than your husband. I'm quite sure that you consider his spiritual growth and his edification as the most important "assignment" or "calling" given to you by our Lord.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> To be honest, I don't agree. Why we did things in the past shouldn't stop us being honest with our spouse. The fact is that you did it and you lied to him. That's the issue. We can all find reasons to excuse why we did this and that, but the marriage was built on lies from the start. You trying to tell him what the counsellor thinks will make little difference to him. I am concerned that the counsellor will tell you not to mention it and I don't think you can live with that, I couldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he will be shocked and devastated and will need lots of time to let it sink in and pray and think about what to do. I hope that he will stay with you, but the trust will take a very long time to rebuild.
> 
> 
> 
> This is like one of those things that will just get worse with time.
> 
> 
> 
> Just tell him, you will be relieved after you have, whatever the outcome.




I don’t think it’s the actual issue for her right now...She is concerned that vanilla sex with husband is so boring that she might do it again at some point, involuntarily. She is clearly fantasising about it.
She is beginning to resent her husband for it and her past is one of ‘her’ personal things she feels she can hold onto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you for your response and for sharing this with me. It sounds really difficult and I'm sorry. I would never, ever, try to give an attitude like "been there done that" to my husband. I also would not say no to him for anything. I did not say No to all these other guys so why would I say No to my husband for things that he might want me to do. I mean what kind of wife would I said No to my husband for things that I let strangers do to me??? That would be so cruel. Anyway I don't really have this probelm. My problem is the opposite and my husband is not adventurous at all. We don't talk about sex and he never asked me to do things. Sometimes I feel hurt because it's all there for him. I would do whatever he wants and it's like he's not interested. just basic sex a few times a month or whatever. I sometimes think how all these other guys wanted all of me. And they wanted more. They wanted everything. Why is it like he wants nothing.
> 
> *I dont' understand what you mean about lying to the pastor. Was that about the oral sex? Sorry if I'm thick but it just seems odd to be talking about that with the pastor. * We had many sessions with the pastor and I lied about being pure there too.
> 
> I think your number 2 above is what it would be like with my husband. About the gift being thrown in the trash. I got really sad when I read that. I can totally see him feeling that that. I mean however sometimes i feel like my gift is thrown in the trash when he seems like he doesnt want all of my physically. if you put it like that maybe my gift to him is my body and all of me and he just throws it in the trash. I'm not trying to turn it around but it's just that maybe we are both going to feel hurt and bad.
> 
> I know he's never had a woman take off all of her clothes and offer to do ANYTHING for him. I know that I have not done everything right in my life but this is my special gift to him. Why doesn't he want me like that?


Our pastor had us read about "The Song of Songs" and we discussed how it could be interpreted. Oral sex was discussed, to which my wife replied she had "no issues".

I think you can have a discussion with your husband without discussing your past, although as I posted earlier in string, it should be discussed, better he hear it from you than someone else.

Have you heard of this song https://www.google.com/search?q=song++I+want+you+to+want+me&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1 ,

Maybe play it for your husband and tell him you want him to show you how much he wants you?

If he objects, remind him of this - 1 Corinthians 7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband._*

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.*_

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

THIS IS FOR BOTH H & W.

I wish I could remember what movie my wife & I were watching, it was pretty bland, about some couple having a mid life crisis, when suddenly it showed somewhat discretely him going down on her, she changed channel quickly. Maybe find a movie that could start discussions?


----------



## Diana7

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think we have seen at least one or two other threads like this usually posted by the husband after he found out. In one such case he was told by some to suck it up. I think a "Christian" marriage begun under false pretenses is not really a Christian marriage IMO. If you lie and deceive to get a spouse what kind of foundation is that for a 'Christian" home? Just a thught.


You are right, there is no strong foundation based on lies and deception. Telling him will knock it all down, but it can then be rebuilt with honesty and trust.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I don’t think it’s the actual issue for her right now...She is concerned that vanilla sex with husband is so boring that she might do it again at some point, involuntarily. She is clearly fantasising about it.
> She is beginning to resent her husband for it and her past is one of ‘her’ personal things she feels she can hold onto.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's why having many partners before sex is so destructive. 

Many men don't want to use physical violence towards their wives in sex and why should they? They are told not to beat or hit their wives but because they are in the bedroom it suddenly becomes ok? Sex where there is no violence is 'vanilla' sex? 

The first thing is to tell him and get that dark secret into the open.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I know he's never had a woman take off all of her clothes and offer to do ANYTHING for him. I know that I have not done everything right in my life but this is my special gift to him. Why doesn't he want me like that?


It could be that he has never even imagined some of the things you offer him. You are reading a rejection into this where I don't believe it exists in his mind, only in yours, because of your past experiences. 



Diana7 said:


> That's why having many partners before sex is so destructive.


That's why I'm asking you to continue with your counselor. And continue in regular fellowship with your Lord. The Lord Jesus Christ can heal you from these memories which are coming between you and your husband. You can, through Him and His saving grace, begin your marriage again just as if both of you were virgins and growing together in your sexual union, and with the complete honesty and trust which will carry you into a wonderful marriage.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> That's why having many partners before sex is so destructive.
> 
> Many men don't want to use physical violence towards their wives in sex and why should they? They are told not to beat or hit their wives but because they are in the bedroom it suddenly becomes ok? Sex where there is no violence is 'vanilla' sex?
> 
> The first thing is to tell him and get that dark secret into the open.




Using ‘violence’ is not ok either outside or inside the bedroom if someone didn’t consent. Sometimes couples use sex as escapism to live out fantasies together that would otherwise be unacceptable in real life, which may involve dominant/submissive type of sex.
Neither my wife nor me had any other partners before we got together yet she is the one who mostly enjoys being dominated in sometimes pretend-aggressive ways. Don’t think it has anything to do with number of partners. It’s human nature. Some people like chocolate, some like lemon. If you trust one another, there are no limits.
It’s so much better exploring these things with someone you love & trust rather than random people.
Unless the fantasy itself is sex with random people...Though even that can be acted out inside a marriage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthseeker1

Diana7 said:


> You are right, there is no strong foundation based on lies and deception. Telling him will knock it all down, but it can then be rebuilt with honesty and trust.


This type of situation has been discussed her more than once - where a man who is a virgin wants to marry one - everyone has their own standards and desires and lying in order to marry such a man is unacceptable IMO. The other case if I recall involved the wife getting found out after their child was born. A complete mess.


----------



## sokillme

The whole thing was built on a lie is it any wonder that it's not working out well. I mean she has a hell of a lot of nerve resent him when he is only expecting her to be the women she presented herself to be. The dude is vanilla, he seemed to know himself pretty well, it's why he wanted to marry a virgin who was vanilla like him. Some people are like that. She married him because he is safe, so she pretended to be vanilla to get him to do it. Could there be any greater example of why lying or hiding your past is a bad idea then this thread. 

If she had been honest neither one of them would be married at this point and she wouldn't be unsatisfied and he could be married to someone who is more at his speed. On a side note this is why the advice to hide your past is just plain stupid. You don't want the person who needs you to have a low count anyway and they don't want you so you might as well get it out there right away to avoid wasting time. 

Anyway this guy has done nothing wrong. He knew he was vanilla and is living out the marriage he plainly expected and the one she told him she expected too. I am sick of everyone dumping on him.

Finally OP, TELL HIM THE TRUTH. Did you ever think that maybe he suspects the truth and that is why he is distant and not comfortable about sex, because he thinks when it comes to your sex life something is off with you and he knows but just not what exactly? Tell him, start your marriage over with the truth and see where that leads. Maybe you will make it, maybe you won't. If you really believe in God then you know he can heal stuff. What you are doing now is just not working, and it's going to end up braking you up eventually anyway. Relationships built on lies are like houses built on sand, they can't stand. At least give your husband the reason why, he deserves that at the very least.


----------



## Satya

I think you could save yourself a lot of therapist money up front if you just told your husband the truth. Therapy will always be there if you need it. Delaying the inevitable is just piling on more unfairness to your husband and adding to your fear and stalling. I disagree with your therapist about waiting, but that's just me. 

What if, for sake of discussion, your husband had a very long incubation STD that he knew about? Would you like for him to conveniently withhold that information before you got married and had sex, then still withhold that information as the years go on? Maybe until you get symptoms? I think you'd be pretty damn pissed off that he lied and risked your health so irresponsibility. 

What if, for sake of discussion, you got pregnant? Would you just continue to delay telling him because now there's even more risk and hardship to you involved if he decided to leave? 

What if, for sake of discussion, you had racked up thousands in credit card debt and were generally financially irresponsible? Would you continue to delay telling him because now he'd have two good reasons to consider leaving instead of just one? 

My point is, you can dance around this matter and find an endless supply of empty advice, FOO issues, excuses, hurdles, and mental blocks that will only serve to delay telling him what he deserves to know. Your personal exploration journey does not stop the fact that he deserves to know the truth and the longer you delay telling him, the more justified he'd be (IMO) in reacting very poorly to it.


----------



## Handy

Just the Wife, keep working with your therapist. 

I do not see any good telling your H about your sexual past. Telling might end the marriage.

I am going to re-post what TJW posted.
* Inexperience. Inexperience causes your husband to "stick to" what he knows. He's afraid to move into the unknown territory. A man's sexual knowledge, ability, endowment, is a very sensitive area of his life. And, there is nothing more in life than wanting to be his wife's hero.

He may also think that pursuing other than "vanilla" might offend you. He loves you and doesn't want to make you uncomfortable in any way.

I think it is an absolutely fine idea to continue to work with your therapist before telling your husband, to make sure of your own thoughts and feelings before doing this haphazardly.*


----------



## 269370

Satya said:


> What if....



If all of these ‘what ifs’ happened prior to the marriage and prior to knowing that person and none of these things affect the marriage anymore, then why is it that paramount for him to know? (Disregarding all the religious reasons and the importance placed on having to be ‘pure’ virgin or whatever).

The only reason to bring these things up and to have the conversation with the husband IMO would be in order to try and prevent future problems which I can see can easily arise since she is deeply unhappy with their sex life and the husband has no idea.

I don’t understand the whole ‘marriage under false pretences thing’. 
A stupid example but what if lets say she used to suffer from a very severe rash down there or something embarrassing in her youth prior to getting married and the conversation with husband happened to be about rashes and she didn’t disclose that she used to have one down there because she felt it was personal and nobody’s bloody business....Technically she would also be marrying under false pretences if they had that conversation before getting married...

It all seems so archaic. Her problem is that she settled with someone who is probably very unsuitable FOR HER. She is quite possibly confusing guilt for not providing ‘full disclosure’ with frustration for not being satisfied with her husband as a partner choice.

Rather than agonising whether or not to provide full disclosure about details of her intimate life prior to the marriage, she could perhaps find somebody with whom she feels she can be HERSELF instead, not feel scared how that person would react/judge her and who would also be lusting for her constantly and wanting her for who she REALLY is. 
Many women (if not all) have a **** in them. Trusting the husband to let that **** out can be one of the most rewarding sexual experiences for someone who has that need.
Repression causes one to erroneously feel guilt and shame, compartmentalise and split their personalities in two, leading to self destructive behaviour, where it actually could easily be a liberating and shared experience with a loving partner.

It’s a classic case of suppression. The therapist is rubbish if they haven’t made her realise this yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> If all of these ‘what ifs’ happened prior to the marriage and prior to knowing that person and none of these things affect the marriage anymore, then why is it that paramount for him to know?
> 
> ...
> 
> The only reason to bring these things up and to have the conversation with the husband IMO would be in order to try and prevent future problems which I can see can easily arise since she is deeply unhappy with their sex life and the husband has no idea.


If her intention is to simply get out of the marriage and find someone else, then I agree, telling him doesn't matter. In fact, I don't think it would be correct to tell him, because the only served purpose will be to hurt him and to risk causing him deep unhappiness in his future marriage.


----------



## Satya

Everyone's entitled to their opinion on this, so I'm not going to try and change anyone's viewpoint.

My view is that it's better she tell him for several reasons:

1. It's the TRUTH.
2. Better that she tell him than someone else. It'll hurt coming from her but it'll certainly hurt more coming from someone else.
3. He deserves to know the truth of the circumstances behind the person he actually married and has been married to.
4. She admitted that it's eating her alive. That means that she has a conscience and knows that it was fundamentally wrong to lie and falsely advertise herself.

Maybe it's viewed as archaic, but I think there's enough deception already in this world. If you'd willingly accept deception in place of reality then I guess I am just on a different wavelength when it comes to what I would accept.

I disagree with her truth being a reason to simply cause him pain. It is also a reason for her to accept her past and be at peace with it. Pretending to be something you're not is exhausting to your soul and assures that you will NEVER be comfortable with who you are. You will forever be ashamed of your past, your core, and you'll do anything to cover it up and ignore it. We are all shades of gray. The sooner we accept our flaws and imperfections, the sooner we can be real and happy with who we are. The sooner we will live accepting who we are and have a better opportunity of finding someone who will accept us for who we are.

My ex husband told me out of the blue and in bed on a Monday morning that he wanted to become a woman. I would have loved for him to tell me 6+ years sooner (because it came out eventually that he was having emotional issues 6+ years long before he actually told me). That way, I could have made a different choice in my life and wasted fewer childbearing years with someone who was fundamentally wrong for me.

I'll never get those years back. I parted with him incredibly amicably and asked for almost nothing. That's because I did love him once and I still cared, even if I knew we wouldn't have a future. I didn't wish anything upon his soul other than happiness for his future, despite his actions creating a lot of sadness and damage in my life for some years after. I dealt with that all on my own. That was my choice to not hold any resentment because I knew it would only make me a bitter and damaged individual.

So, even if she tells him, he may forgive her and stay. He may forgive her and leave. It's not for me or anyone to know but him.
My point is, it's his right to have the full knowledge of the person he married. It's his right to have the full ability to choose if he wants to remain in the marriage, because of that knowledge. Right now, she is holding control of that choice of his, and it's firmly in her grasp until she decides what to do with it.


----------



## ConanHub

It is a pretty sad excuse for a marriage anyway.

What exactly is worth saving?

She is living a lie, sexually frustrated and emotionally burdened. She has hubby on a religious pedestal that is not healthy.

He is a religious almost eunuch that has extremely unhealthy sexual views and, unbeknownst to him, is not fulfilling his wife sexually and believes she is someone she isn't and doesn't really know her at all.

This isn't a marriage. Honesty could make it one but until then it is an empty mask, a false front that is accomplishing what?


----------



## Truthseeker1

ConanHub said:


> It is a pretty sad excuse for a marriage anyway.
> 
> What exactly is worth saving?
> 
> She is living a lie, sexually frustrated and emotionally burdened. She has hubby on a religious pedestal that is not healthy.
> 
> He is a religious almost eunuch that has extremely unhealthy sexual views and, unbeknownst to him, is not fulfilling his wife sexually and believes she is someone she isn't and doesn't really know her at all.
> 
> This isn't a marriage. Honesty could make it one but until then it is an empty mask, a false front that is accomplishing what?


People should go into any LTR or marriage being HONEST IMO...if the other person won't accept you as is go find a partner who WILL...end of story...lying and deceiving to get a "nice partner" is unacceptable...like I've said this has been discussed here before - there was one case either here or somewhere else where the H was proud of his virginity before marriage and thought his wife was a virgin to..know how he found out? Talking at a bar one night with friends she was outed by a guy who laughed at his naivete when it came to his wife(he knew of at least one guy that the wife had shagged before marriage)...he apparently was extolling the virtues of waiting and then became a laughing stock his "Christian" wife continued to lie and it turned out she had more than one guy before him - he was told to suck it up as well..I did find his bragging about his virginity akin to a guy bragging about scoring but I really did doubt the sincerity of his wifes "Christianity" since she didnt come clean when he first confronted her..


----------



## Handy

A couple of months ago, there was a guy that was married to his W for many years. She finally told him she let another man cum inside her. The poster wanted to divorce his wife because she had another mans DNA in her, so in effect, she was contaminated.

Everyone thought the guy was off his rocker for wanting to leave her. Most people pointed out that the wife was a decent person, was devoted to him and what happened several years ago was in the past and needed to stay in the past. It took several months to convince the guy to stay married to his wife.

So how is this thread different?

The issue I see is, how does this poster deal with her guilt, not that she had sex with another man and she needs to tell her husband. 

I say, solve the guilt issue first then maybe work on the next step.


----------



## sokillme

It's really hard for me to believe that you guys don't see that a lot of their problems stem form their different level of sexual experience. If she was a virgin like she said then they could grow and learn together their would be no pressure. She would not be pining away for better sex as there would be an innocence to their sexual relationship that could grow with time. That was the whole point. The two of them growing together in experience. Instead she is unhappy and he is oblivious (though I bet he can tell something is up or at least she is unsatisfied). The whole thing is a farce. Mostly because their is no honesty in their sexual relationship, the whole thing started out dishonestly. The night he thought they were losing their virginity together she was lying. To him it was a profound moment the both of them had saved themselves for, She was playing a part and lying to him the whole time. He will never have that with anyone now, yet he spent a considerable amount of effort and choice to try to have that. She took that choice away from him by lying to him. That is not right. If you can't see that then that's on you. I feel bad for you actually


----------



## Diana7

Handy said:


> A couple of months ago, there was a guy that was married to his W for many years. She finally told him she let another man cum inside her. The poster wanted to divorce his wife because she had another mans DNA in her, so in effect, she was contaminated.
> 
> Everyone thought the guy was off his rocker for wanting to leave her. Most people pointed out that the wife was a decent person, was devoted to him and what happened several years ago was in the past and needed to stay in the past. It took several months to convince the guy to stay married to his wife.
> 
> So how is this thread different?
> 
> The issue I see is, how does this poster deal with her guilt, not that she had sex with another man and she needs to tell her husband.
> 
> I say, solve the guilt issue first then maybe work on the next step.


She will be free of the guilt when she has told him. Until then it will eat her up.


----------



## JustTheWife

Handy said:


> A couple of months ago, there was a guy that was married to his W for many years. She finally told him she let another man cum inside her. The poster wanted to divorce his wife because she had another mans DNA in her, so in effect, she was contaminated.
> 
> Everyone thought the guy was off his rocker for wanting to leave her. Most people pointed out that the wife was a decent person, was devoted to him and what happened several years ago was in the past and needed to stay in the past. It took several months to convince the guy to stay married to his wife.
> 
> So how is this thread different?
> 
> The issue I see is, how does this poster deal with her guilt, not that she had sex with another man and she needs to tell her husband.
> 
> I say, solve the guilt issue first then maybe work on the next step.


It's this kind of thing that makes me afraid. If you are going to tell the truth you need to be prepared to tell him everything he wants to know. I mean what if he had a problem with something like this. There are so many things that could really bother him and screw him up.


----------



## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> It's this kind of thing that makes me afraid. If you are going to tell the truth you need to be prepared to tell him everything he wants to know. I mean what if he had a problem with something like this. There are so many things that could really bother him and screw him up.


So how is your sex life with your husband. Just wondering. 

I am thinking that you have to live with the guilt, but the right thing to do is tell him. 

The REAL problem it that your relationship and marriage is built completely on lies. That is the issue. 

I can tell you that most "religious" guys will not be able to handle this well at all. A lot are sexually insecure because they don't have any experience, and so many women don't know anything or don't discuss their needs, bla. bla, bla...

Now, and was completely honest with my GF, I will not tell you my number ever. She knows it is a lot, and that is bad enough, but she is OK with it. Whatever she thinks that number is, that is fine. She knows I am with her and I will not cheat and really, I have no reason to cheat. 

For you though, the guilt and the lies are your issue, and it is entirely possible that he may divorce you when you tell him. 

But if you think about it, would it not be better to live an honest life and have a marriage based on truth with a solid foundation than what you have now. What you have now is a lie and your H does not even know that his marriage is a lie.

It is your decision, but you have to live with it...


----------



## JustTheWife

BluesPower said:


> So how is your sex life with your husband. Just wondering.
> 
> I am thinking that you have to live with the guilt, but the right thing to do is tell him.
> 
> The REAL problem it that your relationship and marriage is built completely on lies. That is the issue.
> 
> I can tell you that most "religious" guys will not be able to handle this well at all. A lot are sexually insecure because they don't have any experience, and so many women don't know anything or don't discuss their needs, bla. bla, bla...
> 
> Now, and was completely honest with my GF, I will not tell you my number ever. She knows it is a lot, and that is bad enough, but she is OK with it. Whatever she thinks that number is, that is fine. She knows I am with her and I will not cheat and really, I have no reason to cheat.
> 
> For you though, the guilt and the lies are your issue, and it is entirely possible that he may divorce you when you tell him.
> 
> But if you think about it, would it not be better to live an honest life and have a marriage based on truth with a solid foundation than what you have now. What you have now is a lie and your H does not even know that his marriage is a lie.
> 
> It is your decision, but you have to live with it...


No it's not a good sex life. I don't have orgasms with him and I like guys to be more dominant. Trying to make it work. I'd do anything for him but he doesn't seem to care or want it. I guess i wish i felt more wanted. I don't really understand because just about all the other guys i was with wanted to take everything. 

I don't think your way would work. YOu can't tell half of it. I don't think i can expect to tell him i had sex with other guys and not say how many or what i did. I think knowing the whole truth would really really ruin him. I think it would be very hard for him to accept the whole truth of it. I mean who knows what he'd want to know.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> It's this kind of thing that makes me afraid. If you are going to tell the truth you need to be prepared to tell him everything he wants to know. I mean what if he had a problem with something like this. There are so many things that could really bother him and screw him up.


You already DID this to him, he just doesn't know. You are not protecting him just prolonging the lie. He will get over it. People get lied and cheated on all the time. They get over it. He deserves to have agency and power in his own life. You have robbed him of that and you continue to do that everyday. That is not what a loving partner does.


----------



## becareful2

Can you see yourself being happy with a husband who can't satisfy you in bed? Over time, will that cause resentment in you?


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

He may want more, he may want to be dominate, but he can feel something is off when having sex with you.
I think his gut is telling him something, but he doesn't know what. He may think you are holding him at bay.

Marriage is about communication. Before my wife told me about her past, I thought she hated sex with me. Her prior experiences were causing issues in her mind. I thought her actions were because of me.

I forgave my wife quickly because that is what a christian should do. I had much more anger because she continued to let her past affect OUR marriage. She didn't want to work on her issues.

You may think you are covering your past, I'd bet money he feels something is off.
https://forgivenwife.com/a-post-from-the-archives-about-premarital-sex/


----------



## Malaise

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> *He may want more, he may want to be dominate, but he can feel something is off when having sex with you.
> I think his gut is telling him something, but he doesn't know what. He may think you are holding him at bay.
> *
> Marriage is about communication. Before my wife told me about her past, I thought she hated sex with me. Her prior experiences were causing issues in her mind. I thought her actions were because of me.
> 
> I forgave my wife quickly because that is what a christian should do. I had much more anger because she continued to let her past affect OUR marriage. She didn't want to work on her issues.
> 
> You may think you are covering your past, I'd bet money he feels something is off.
> https://forgivenwife.com/a-post-from-the-archives-about-premarital-sex/


Op

Have you outright told him what you'd like? Dropped any hints?

He may be hesitant to do more not knowing how you'll react.


----------



## TJW

Now that I've considered this more, I don't think "to tell, or not to tell" is the question. Because, I think your husband will forgive your lie, and your past actions, and they will affect your marriage no more. But, the impasse which has been created, will remain, and will have nothing to do with forgiveness. 



JustTheWife said:


> just about all the other guys i was with wanted to take everything.


Ironic, isn't it? Now, you have a guy who wants to GIVE everything, but his abilities, his anatomy, his desires, his prowess, his looks, his knowledge, his experience, do not "measure up" to your standards. He already knows this. True, he doesn't know the principal cause of it, but the responses, the feelings, the unspoken communication of your sexual relationship, the "message" is loud and clear. How that came to be, is quite irrelevant. The fact of your dissatisfaction with him remains.



JustTheWife said:


> I'd do anything for him but he doesn't seem to care or want it.


The most powerful impetus in the human psyche is pain avoidance. What you interpret as "doesn't care" and "doesn't want", is his way of protecting himself from the damaging emotions of feeling inadequate and worthless in your eyes. He does want, and he does care, but the pain of exercising want and care is too severe.

That is where I think a professional therapist could be of great benefit. If you want this marriage to "work", and bring sexual satisfaction to you, you will have to reduce your expectation set to one which your husband can deliver upon. Then, as he becomes confident and edified in your marriage bed, you will then be able to set "stretch" objectives and follow into more pleasurable endeavors.

What you're asking of your husband is very much like demanding that he win the Daytona 500 two days from now, when two days before now, he got a learner's permit.

You have said that you "would do anything for him". My beloved sister in Christ, I now call upon you to do just that. And, I fully and completely believe our Lord stands ready and able to provide everything you need to do it.


----------



## sokillme

TJW said:


> Now that I've considered this more, I don't think "to tell, or not to tell" is the question. Because, I think your husband will forgive your lie, and your past actions, and they will affect your marriage no more. But, the impasse which has been created, will remain, and will have nothing to do with forgiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic, isn't it? Now, you have a guy who wants to GIVE everything, but his abilities, his anatomy, his desires, his prowess, his looks, his knowledge, his experience, do not "measure up" to your standards. He already knows this. True, he doesn't know the principal cause of it, but the responses, the feelings, the unspoken communication of your sexual relationship, the "message" is loud and clear. How that came to be, is quite irrelevant. The fact of your dissatisfaction with him remains.
> 
> 
> 
> The most powerful impetus in the human psyche is pain avoidance. What you interpret as "doesn't care" and "doesn't want", is his way of protecting himself from the damaging emotions of feeling inadequate and worthless in your eyes. He does want, and he does care, but the pain of exercising want and care is too severe.
> 
> That is where I think a professional therapist could be of great benefit. If you want this marriage to "work", and bring sexual satisfaction to you, you will have to reduce your expectation set to one which your husband can deliver upon. Then, as he becomes confident and edified in your marriage bed, you will then be able to set "stretch" objectives and follow into more pleasurable endeavors.
> 
> What you're asking of your husband is very much like demanding that he win the Daytona 500 two days from now, when two days before now, he got a learner's permit.
> 
> You have said that you "would do anything for him". My beloved sister in Christ, I now call upon you to do just that.


Or he was just duped into marring someone who he is not on the same page with sexually. Why should he have to be a martyr when he never even had a chance. Besides that on a very basic level she likes rough sex. Lots of men can do that. You just have to ask for it. This is a women who has not been honest at all about any aspect of her sexuality. There is never a chance in a million years that they are going to have a good sex life because the whole thing is built on a lie with someone who is not even close to representing themselves for who they are. If you don't honestly represent yourself in some aspect of a relationship let alone something as intimate as sex how can you possibly expect it to function well. Good sex takes trust, vulnerably and honesty, they don't have any of those things. In a sense she is cheating herself of the possibility because she isn't being herself while she is doing it. This has nothing to do with him.

Lets say he told her he made a 6 figure salary when he really made a third of that. So they are married a year and all of a sudden she finds out they are in deep dept, so she starts to complain. If he came on here and confesses but then said, "I don't really like this side of her, she is so materialistic." First would anyone be surprised that they started having marital difficulty around their finances considering the circumstances? Then imagine he was like, "you know she has these huge expectations of me making money", would people be saying, "well she is a gold digger are you sure you want to be married to her" or would they be saying. "Dude of course she expects you to provide for her you told her you made 6 figures and lied to her. She is only expecting what you yourself represented to be." (Actually I am sure some of the posters here would be calling her a gold digger ) I don't see any difference really. He expects a sexually innocent wife and a sexually innocent sex life at this point because that is who she represented herself to be. 

Like I said in my earlier post if she was who she said she was they may have learned about sex together. It could have been enjoyable to both of them. There wouldn't have been this hidden pressure. However it's like she lived for a few months in Paris then lied to him and told him that their trip together was her first time there, now she is disappointing that he doesn't know his way around the city like she does. Really talk about nerve. It just continues the total injustice of the whole thing. And the folks on here basically putting him down to her because he doesn't live up to her expectations are the worst. This poor guy never had a chance.

One things for sure if there is any doubt to just be honest this is the tread to eliminate it. The answer to the question asked in title is unequivocally NO. OP suffers just as much as he does maybe even more at this point. So NO DON'T LIE. If they can't handle it you are better off without them. 

I am not even trying to get on you OP, but you need a real change in your mindset or your life is just going to get worse. There is no hope for better when you can't even be yourself with your husband in such a huge part of your marriage. How could you possibly have a good relationship with something that requires probably a higher level intimacy then any other action you can do with another person, when you are not even representing who you are? Tell him and see. That is the only possible way to fix this. That is the only path that provides a glimmer of hope. It may end it but in the end I believe you will still have a better life. Your IC is just wrong anything is better then spending your whole life, your whole sexual life lying about it. How can that be healthy for you?


----------



## [email protected]

Her marriage is dead!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I had to throw this out there, my apologies in advance. There were multiple comments on Ws that said no way to receiving oral and that's something that's hard to understand when done right. 
What is, is, but I guess my question is what's behind totally being against oral for W.

(Sorry if off topic) 🙂


----------



## Nucking Futs

gowithuhtred said:


> I had to throw this out there, my apologies in advance. There were multiple comments on Ws that said no way to receiving oral and that's something that's hard to understand when done right.
> What is, is, but I guess my question is what's behind totally being against oral for W.
> 
> (Sorry if off topic) 🙂


I think it boils down to a lack of confidence. They don't think their vag is attractive, or clean enough, or they're afraid they might fart. You can trust me on this, I'm a man that has never actually met a woman that rejects oral and that makes me an internet expert on the topic. :smthumbup:


----------



## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> No it's not a good sex life. I don't have orgasms with him and I like guys to be more dominant. Trying to make it work. I'd do anything for him but he doesn't seem to care or want it. I guess i wish i felt more wanted. I don't really understand because just about all the other guys i was with wanted to take everything.
> 
> I don't think your way would work. YOu can't tell half of it. I don't think i can expect to tell him i had sex with other guys and not say how many or what i did. I think knowing the whole truth would really really ruin him. I think it would be very hard for him to accept the whole truth of it. I mean who knows what he'd want to know.


Dear, I am sorry, so sorry. See the thing is that you married a beta (for lack of a better word) and like most women, you want an alpha man. 

I guess that you ladies are just too young to understand what you really need before you get married. If you have not already cheated, you will by the way. I know you don't want to but that is what happens. 

Have you talked about your needs in bed with him? 

Actually, the honest thing to do is divorce him, I am sorry. You will be miserable. 

See your problem is not your sexual past, but your sexual present. You would not feel nearly a guilty if he was a stud in bed and if he found out or you told him about your past you could honestly say that sex with him is the best you have ever had. 

It is hard for me to understand men like your husband, but there are a ton out there like him. I guess it is inexperience and insecurity. 

I really am sorry...


----------



## Buddy400

BluesPower said:


> Dear, I am sorry, so sorry. See the thing is that you married a beta (for lack of a better word) and like most women, *you want an alpha man. *
> 
> I guess that you ladies are just too young to understand what you really need before you get married. If you have not already cheated, you will by the way. I know you don't want to but that is what happens.
> 
> Have you talked about your needs in bed with him?
> 
> Actually, the honest thing to do is divorce him, I am sorry. You will be miserable.
> 
> See your problem is not your sexual past, but your sexual present. You would not feel nearly a guilty if he was a stud in bed and if he found out or you told him about your past you could honestly say that sex with him is the best you have ever had.
> 
> It is hard for me to understand men like your husband, but there are a ton out there like him. I guess it is inexperience and insecurity.
> 
> I really am sorry...


The problem with wanting an "Alpha Man" is that there are a limited number of them (10%?). So "most women" will have to do without or share their Alpha Man with several other women. 

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with wanting whatever one wants; just be realistic.

It's like if most men required a women with D cup breasts; most men would have to share or do without.


----------



## BluesPower

Buddy400 said:


> The problem with wanting an "Alpha Man" is that there are a limited number of them (10%?). So "most women" will have to do without or share their Alpha Man with several other women.
> 
> I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with wanting whatever one wants; just be realistic.
> 
> It's like if most men required a women with D cup breasts; most men would have to share or do without.


Some of this is true, I don't know about the numbers. And hey, I am no special forces bad boy alpha male, but pleasing a woman in bed has never been an issue. But really in this day and age a man has no excuse for not learning how to please a woman. 

There are books, Google, and a hundred other things out there to help you learn about sex. I just don't understand it myself, but there are so many women out there like OP. I feel very sorry for them. I do what I can but I am only one man. (LOL). 

But to OP, Have you really, I mean really honestly talked to your husband about sex. I mean deep, deep down honesty? Because if you want to be with him, you will suffer if you don't do everything you can to teach him. Read on the internet with him, do something. 

Or, Actually, then kindest think you could do is divorce him and find a man that you are actually attracted to that knows something about sex. 

Like I said before, you really have bigger problems than your sexual past, it is you sexual present and future that you need to deal with. 

I hate reading threads like this, no offense to anyone, but it makes me sad...


----------



## sokillme

Buddy400 said:


> The problem with wanting an "Alpha Man" is that there are a limited number of them (10%?). So "most women" will have to do without or share their Alpha Man with several other women.
> 
> I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with wanting whatever one wants; just be realistic.
> 
> It's like if most men required a women with D cup breasts; most men would have to share or do without.


So the only thing that determines he is an Alpha or not is the amount of women he slept with? Is that really all that matters? Or is it that they are not on the same page sexually? Personally I think this whole Alpha thing especially in this crazy circumstance is stupid.


----------



## oldtruck

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's what he *believes* about you and it's not true, so why are you *SO* sure he's not lying like you are? I don't really know of any teenage boys who don't an erection when the damned wind blows, so it's kind of hard to believe that he was as pure as the driven snow until you got married. * Real* hard (unless he looks like Steve Buscemi - then I'd totally believe him).
> 
> Secondly, experience has taught me that being 100% honest about your past will bite you in the ass over and over and over and over and over and over until the day you die (unless you fake your own death just to make it stop, that is). And it's a hollow victory to be able to claim you were totally honest when all that honesty got you was continued punishment.
> 
> It ain't worth it.
> 
> Telling him at this point will serve no purpose whatsoever. None. He can't reach into the past and undo anything, nor can you. The only thing you'll accomplish at this point is making yourself feel better. That's all you're going to accomplish. And if your church is calling people who have premarital sex ho's and heathens, then I can only imagine their name for someone who dares to get a divorce.
> 
> Get right with God on your own terms and leave the past in the past.
> 
> Or, wait until he's 70 and then tell him. It's not like he's going to divorce you at that age. Old men can barely make their own damn sandwiches much less take care of themselves all alone, so he's not going to divorce you because he depends on you too much.



A year or two ago a man in Italy, 99 years old. Discovered love letters his WW saved from her affair while 
he was fighting in WWII. He divorced her right away.


----------



## oldtruck

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


It is who you were back then. You are not her anymore.


----------



## oldtruck

ConanHub said:


> LOL!
> 
> Girl, you are a fresh, white snow drift compared to me.
> 
> I was a wild man before I got corralled by Mrs. Conan.
> 
> She knew what she was getting into though and so did I.
> 
> She got me into church eventually and even before that, I had become a good and loving husband and father.
> 
> You chose to leave the promiscuous behavior behind and you are a solid wife now.
> 
> No one is better than you. Your only bad choice here was not being honest with your man.
> 
> I had 60 women by the time I was 20. I took a woman in front of her sister and then her as well.
> 
> I have woken up drunk in bed with a cute blond and her angry boyfriend standing over us.
> 
> I chose to become someone different and did.
> 
> I now pour my passion into my wife and I am a solid husband.
> 
> You are definitely no worse than me and I am respected in my circles.
> 
> Your husband isn't better than you either. You are just as deserving of a good mate as him or anyone.



How much good does a man have to do to undo the bad he did?
Can a WW ever undo the sex she had with her OM?


----------



## BluesPower

*No it really not like that or that simple....*



sokillme said:


> So the only thing that determines he is an Alpha or not is the amount of women he slept with? Is that really all that matters? Or is it that they are not on the same page sexually? Personally I think this whole Alpha thing especially in this crazy circumstance is stupid.


No it really not like that or that simple.... which is why this Alpha/beta thing is so hard to describe properly. 

But the problem is that... it is a thing. Whether it is sexual confidence, sexual ability, general confidence or whatever, it is a thing. 

But there are two problems with OP. Her husband is none of those things. And if she has talked to him or worked with him, I guess he will not get better. Whatever spectrum a man is on, I just feel that with all the information out there these days, there is not excuse to not know what you are doing in the bed room. What I do know is that her situation is common and sad.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: No it really not like that or that simple....*



BluesPower said:


> No it really not like that or that simple.... which is why this Alpha/beta thing is so hard to describe properly.
> 
> But the problem is that... it is a thing. Whether it is sexual confidence, sexual ability, general confidence or whatever, it is a thing.
> 
> But there are two problems with OP. Her husband is none of those things. And if she has talked to him or worked with him, I guess he will not get better. Whatever spectrum a man is on, I just feel that with all the information out there these days, there is not excuse to not know what you are doing in the bed room. What I do know is that her situation is common and sad.


And you got that from what? First of all there is no way to tell if their sex life could be better at this point because in every aspect of that part of their marriage she is a stranger. Maybe with some honesty they could learn and grow. That is not going to happen until she tells the truth though. Right now he is making love to a phantom.

Remember also this is his first sexual experience most people are not great right away. It takes time, but it sounds like their sex life was messed up from the beginning, how could it not be. How can he learn what she likes when she doesn't even tell him who she is? 

Let me ask you this, say he married a different women who wanted very loving gentle but what in your mind would be vanilla sex. This type of women and they are out there would seem to be a natural fit for him, she may think he is awesome and respond very well towards him does he then become an Alpha?

That's the problem of this Alpha/Beta thing being based on sexual chemistry, just because you don't have it with someone doesn't mean you can't have it with someone else.


----------



## BluesPower

*Re: No it really not like that or that simple....*



sokillme said:


> And you got that from what? First of all there is no way to tell if their sex life could be better at this point because in every aspect of that part of their marriage she is a stranger. Maybe with some honesty they could learn and grow. That is not going to happen until she tells the truth though. Right now he is making love to a phantom.
> 
> Remember also this is his first sexual experience most people are not great right away. It takes time, but it sounds like their sex life was messed up from the beginning, how could it not be. How can he learn what she likes when she doesn't even tell him who she is?
> 
> Let me ask you this, say he married a different women who wanted very loving gentle but what in your mind would be vanilla sex. This type of women and they are out there would seem to be a natural fit for him, she may think he is awesome and respond very well towards him does he then become an Alpha?
> 
> That's the problem of this Alpha/Beta thing being based on sexual chemistry, just because you don't have it with someone doesn't mean you can't have it with someone else.


You make some good points. But here is the deal. Yes I wonder, since she has so much guild about her past, how much, how open, how honest, has she been about their sex life? Has she tried to teach him? 

Is it possible that he could learn, and things would be better off in general? Maybe? Is it possible that if the bed room was in better shape that she would not feel so guilty? Maybe? 

Is it possible that is he was a better lover that she would not be bothered by her guilt and she could just swallow her guilt and live a fulfilled life with her husband. Maybe? 

But none of that is happening. I hope she finds a way of making things better. But my guess is that if she tells him right now, it will just make things worse for everyone. 

It is a tough situation, and a huge part is her fault. But she either needs to do the hard work to help her H learn about sex, or she needs to get a divorce. She should not have to sacrifice her sex life. And I just don't know what telling him the truth would do to this situation....


----------



## JustTheWife

JustTheWife said:


> No it's not a good sex life. I don't have orgasms with him and I like guys to be more dominant. Trying to make it work. I'd do anything for him but he doesn't seem to care or want it. I guess i wish i felt more wanted. I don't really understand because just about all the other guys i was with wanted to take everything.
> 
> I don't think your way would work. YOu can't tell half of it. I don't think i can expect to tell him i had sex with other guys and not say how many or what i did. I think knowing the whole truth would really really ruin him. I think it would be very hard for him to accept the whole truth of it. I mean who knows what he'd want to know.


Just want to correct something that i said in the wrong way. I do have orgasms from sex but that just happens. He does not try to GIVE me orgasms like through doing other thigns if you know what I mean. I'm not saying that orgasms that "just happen" are not as good but just explaining what i meant. It's like we don't "share" having an orgasm. I just keep it to myself and it's like my private thing like he's not involved in it. Like I mean he hasn't brought me to orgasm and then we share it. So that's my fault but there is not a the trust and openness about sex where I feel comfortable with this. Hard to explain. I mean I trust him as my husband but not trust that I can be myself with my sexuality with him. We just don't talk about sex. 

I wanted to try to explain that better because it's not like i don't have orgasms.


----------



## JustTheWife

*Re: No it really not like that or that simple....*



BluesPower said:


> You make some good points. But here is the deal. Yes I wonder, since she has so much guild about her past, how much, how open, how honest, has she been about their sex life? Has she tried to teach him?
> 
> Is it possible that he could learn, and things would be better off in general? Maybe? Is it possible that if the bed room was in better shape that she would not feel so guilty? Maybe?
> 
> Is it possible that is he was a better lover that she would not be bothered by her guilt and she could just swallow her guilt and live a fulfilled life with her husband. Maybe?
> 
> But none of that is happening. I hope she finds a way of making things better. But my guess is that if she tells him right now, it will just make things worse for everyone.
> 
> It is a tough situation, and a huge part is her fault. But she either needs to do the hard work to help her H learn about sex, or she needs to get a divorce. She should not have to sacrifice her sex life. And I just don't know what telling him the truth would do to this situation....


Yes, interesting points. I think it would make a difference if the sex were different. I would feel like he has a normal attitude toward it and i would be much more comfortable. It's like the past sex was a completely different thing. Like a whole other world. So it makes it feel more guilty and ashamed sometimes. Like I said, it's complicated and i have a lot of different feelings about it. If I were doing all of this with him it would feel like it was less of a big deal that i did it with other guys. Not saying that this is the answer but what we have in teh bedroom makes it all harder.


----------



## JustTheWife

BluesPower said:


> Some of this is true, I don't know about the numbers. And hey, I am no special forces bad boy alpha male, but pleasing a woman in bed has never been an issue. But really in this day and age a man has no excuse for not learning how to please a woman.
> 
> There are books, Google, and a hundred other things out there to help you learn about sex. I just don't understand it myself, but there are so many women out there like OP. I feel very sorry for them. I do what I can but I am only one man. (LOL).
> 
> But to OP, Have you really, I mean really honestly talked to your husband about sex. I mean deep, deep down honesty? Because if you want to be with him, you will suffer if you don't do everything you can to teach him. Read on the internet with him, do something.
> 
> Or, Actually, then kindest think you could do is divorce him and find a man that you are actually attracted to that knows something about sex.
> 
> Like I said before, you really have bigger problems than your sexual past, it is you sexual present and future that you need to deal with.
> 
> I hate reading threads like this, no offense to anyone, but it makes me sad...


I'm not good at taking the lead in sex. I don't like it and it doesn't do anything for me. With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything. I want to be the good girl that just did what she was told. And the bad girl that did something that she wasn't supposed to do.

I want guys to "make" me to do things that are so "wrong"and teach me how to be a bad girl. I can't be teaching someone about sex.

This probably sounds really odd so i hope you understand what i'm saying.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> Just want to correct something that i said in the wrong way. I do have orgasms from sex but that just happens. He does not try to GIVE me orgasms like through doing other thigns if you know what I mean. I'm not saying that orgasms that "just happen" are not as good but just explaining what i meant. It's like we don't "share" having an orgasm. I just keep it to myself and it's like my private thing like he's not involved in it. Like I mean he hasn't brought me to orgasm and then we share it. So that's my fault but there is not a the trust and openness about sex where I feel comfortable with this. Hard to explain. I mean I trust him as my husband but not trust that I can be myself with my sexuality with him. We just don't talk about sex.
> 
> I wanted to try to explain that better because it's not like i don't have orgasms.


Having an orgasm and sharing an orgasm with your husband are not the same things (even if he's present in both situations). I think it comes back to the fact that you don't enjoy sex so much with your husband or that the fact that the he doesn't _want_ you (in that lustful sense) makes that experience a mundane activity.
Orgasm is not the goal (even though some men believe it is and get frustrated when their wife doesn't have one). An orgasm can be as meaningful as sneezing. You don't want to keep keep sneezing in a relationship..

Can you not 'teach' him what you like? We were both virgins too (I say 'too' because in his eyes you were a virgin) but 'learnt' to have pretty kinky sex over time.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not good at taking the lead in sex. I don't like it and it doesn't do anything for me. With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything. I want to be the good girl that just did what she was told. And the bad girl that did something that she wasn't supposed to do.
> 
> I want guys to "make" me to do things that are so "wrong"and teach me how to be a bad girl. I can't be teaching someone about sex.
> 
> This probably sounds really odd so i hope you understand what i'm saying.


My wife has this exact same thing too. You don't need to take the lead, you just need to tell him the exact same thing you have written in this post and he should be able to get the concept pretty quickly...
I had to guess...But found it eventually. And it's awesome. (When that happens.)


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

@JustTheWife,

Your H could very well been raised to respect women, to only be loving, kind, and not aggressive. He may have those urges, but he's been told that being aggressive and demanding is NOT acceptable. As another poster mentioned, in his mind, the person he thought he was marrying, wants vanilla sex.

Another thought that occurred to me was you said "With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything." 

You ARE holding ONE man to the performance of MULTIPLE men.

It would be like a guy marrying and thinking, "I wish W would swirl her tongue on my **** like Suzy, and W's boobs don't bounce like Amy's and Cheryl was much better at cowgirl than W, and Beth was a maniac in the shower.

These memories have all congealed into a entity in your mind that your H can't compete with.

As I said in a earlier post, communication in a marriage is critical.

ps - all those other guys had the mindset of "I'm gonna get what I can get, and if she don't like it, I'll drop her & go to the next one". your H wants to be with you long term


----------



## TJW

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> ps - all those other guys had the mindset of "I'm gonna get what I can get, and if she don't like it, I'll drop her & go to the next one". your H wants to be with you long term


This is insightful. And, it is one of the major reasons why extramarital sex can be so destructive to the later marriage. It is a "take", and your responses become trained to the "taker". Then, you marry a man who is not a completely selfish moral leper, and the neural networks have to be rewired to marital sex.

However, the "good news" is .... your past is not "burned in' to you. Yes, it is true that you cannot forget your past. However, the bible clearly states that our past does not have power over us. There is good reason why it is not recorded that God ever changed the past. God knows that it is unnecessary to change it.... because He has the ability to make you unaffected by it. He has designed this into us.

You have options.... if you want to choose your husband and your marriage, you can ..... I'm not saying it will be easy, but it will be possible....


----------



## 269370

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> @JustTheWife,
> ps - all those other guys had the mindset of "I'm gonna get what I can get, and if she don't like it, I'll drop her & go to the next one". your H wants to be with you long term


Isn't the problem for her more the fact that the husband doesn't_ feel_ there's anything he particularly _wants_ to take form the wife (sexually) and that's just frustrating for her? It's actually possible to have a marriage where you have a husband like that but who is also committed to wife/marriage at the same time...One doesn't have to exclude the other. Plus being selfish in bed, can be a selfless thing, if that's what the wife desires.
Not really paying attention to what the wife desires is selfish.


----------



## 269370

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> [MENTION=309330]
> 
> You ARE holding ONE man to the performance of MULTIPLE men.


I am not sure it's about the performance. It's about the _feeling_. If the wife doesn't feel desired, no acrobatics or penis pumps in the bedroom can change this.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: No it really not like that or that simple....*



BluesPower said:


> You make some good points. But here is the deal. Yes I wonder, since she has so much guild about her past, how much, how open, how honest, has she been about their sex life? Has she tried to teach him?
> 
> Is it possible that he could learn, and things would be better off in general? Maybe? Is it possible that if the bed room was in better shape that she would not feel so guilty? Maybe?
> 
> Is it possible that is he was a better lover that she would not be bothered by her guilt and she could just swallow her guilt and live a fulfilled life with her husband. Maybe?
> 
> But none of that is happening. I hope she finds a way of making things better. But my guess is that if she tells him right now, it will just make things worse for everyone.
> 
> It is a tough situation, and a huge part is her fault. But she either needs to do the hard work to help her H learn about sex, or she needs to get a divorce. She should not have to sacrifice her sex life. And I just don't know what telling him the truth would do to this situation....


Not sure why you think she shouldn't feel guilty. She did wrong she feels guilty because she hasn't corrected that wrong. That is a good thing.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I do have orgasms from sex but that just happens. He does not try to GIVE me orgasms like through doing other thigns if you know what I mean.


Well, this is a PRIME opportunity which you can leverage to increase your feeling of his desire. Tell him how you love and enjoy orgasms. And, how you love it when it "happens" with him. And, how he can make it completely "mind blowing" if he will ________..... (specific, easy-to-do action)

In the classic movie "Patton", General Bradley's character said of General Patton:

"...give George a headline, and he's good for another 30 miles...."

This is pure male psychology. Those little items of encouragement are "where it's at".... you don't have to "teach", you don't have to "lead"...



JustTheWife said:


> I would feel like he has a normal attitude toward it and i would be much more comfortable. It's like the past sex was a completely different thing. Like a whole other world. So it makes it feel more guilty and ashamed sometimes.


I may be off-base here.... but I think you might find this wonderful woman helpful:

https://www.ted.com/speakers/brene_brown


----------



## MJJEAN

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not good at taking the lead in sex. I don't like it and it doesn't do anything for me. With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything. I want to be the good girl that just did what she was told. And the bad girl that did something that she wasn't supposed to do.
> 
> I want guys to "make" me to do things that are so "wrong"and teach me how to be a bad girl. I can't be teaching someone about sex.
> 
> This probably sounds really odd so i hope you understand what i'm saying.


Let's call a spade a spade. You're sexually submissive. You need a man who is a bit kinky, lustful, and sexually dominant. Your husband, bless him, has not assumed that role either because he isn't naturally sexually dominant or doesn't know that he is "allowed" to behave that way.

If you can't verbally express your feelings, could you write him a letter/email? Give him some books on kink, particularly D/s (Domination/submission), to read?


----------



## uhtred

Partially agree, but one advantage of a long term relationship is that you learn all the things your partner enjoys so you can do all of them (at least withing your physical limitations). Given time a long term partner should be better at sex than any short term partners. It just takes a desire to please. 




FrazzledSadHusband said:


> @JustTheWife,
> 
> Your H could very well been raised to respect women, to only be loving, kind, and not aggressive. He may have those urges, but he's been told that being aggressive and demanding is NOT acceptable. As another poster mentioned, in his mind, the person he thought he was marrying, wants vanilla sex.
> 
> Another thought that occurred to me was you said "With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything."
> 
> You ARE holding ONE man to the performance of MULTIPLE men.
> 
> It would be like a guy marrying and thinking, "I wish W would swirl her tongue on my **** like Suzy, and W's boobs don't bounce like Amy's and Cheryl was much better at cowgirl than W, and Beth was a maniac in the shower.
> 
> These memories have all congealed into a entity in your mind that your H can't compete with.
> 
> As I said in a earlier post, communication in a marriage is critical.
> 
> ps - all those other guys had the mindset of "I'm gonna get what I can get, and if she don't like it, I'll drop her & go to the next one". your H wants to be with you long term


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Isn't the problem for her more the fact that the husband doesn't_ feel_ there's anything he particularly _wants_ to take form the wife (sexually) and that's just frustrating for her? It's actually possible to have a marriage where you have a husband like that but who is also committed to wife/marriage at the same time...One doesn't have to exclude the other. Plus being selfish in bed, can be a selfless thing, if that's what the wife desires.
> Not really paying attention to what the wife desires is selfish.


Her problem is there is no honesty in her sexuality with him. Until that is solved there is no point to trying to solve the other issues. There is a distinct lack of intimacy with him because she isn't even her true self with him. Good sex takes honesty and vulnerability. They have no chance when the whole thing is built on a lie. Maybe she could have gotten lucky with a guy who was just naturally how she likes, but that didn't happen. It was going to take honest communication.


----------



## Adelais

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not good at taking the lead in sex. I don't like it and it doesn't do anything for me. With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything. I want to be the good girl that just did what she was told. And the bad girl that did something that she wasn't supposed to do.
> 
> I want guys to "make" me to do things that are so "wrong"and teach me how to be a bad girl. I can't be teaching someone about sex.
> 
> This probably sounds really odd so i hope you understand what i'm saying.


The more I read your thread, the more I think that your marriage is doomed, on your side and on your husband's.

I think you need to sit him down and tell him that you need to tell him something, and that you don't blame him if he decides to divorce you over it.

Tell him that you were not a virgin before he married you, but that you had lots of sex with other guys at bars, taking turns with you, like in a porn movie, and that you liked it. You liked being treated like a **** more than you like being treated with respect by him, and that you think about the strangers you had sex with and daydream about the things they did to you and made you do. Tell him that you don't like sex with him, because he is not abusive or disrespectful.

I think you need to just get it over with, and let him make up his mind if he wants to become like the guys at the bars or find a wife who shares his ideas about sex.

Your sexual preference is not going to change, since your earliest experiences have shaped you. Let your husband go, and take your lumps (that he will find you disgusting and be very angry with you) so the two of you can find suitable partners.


----------



## oldtruck

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe you're right. Maybe i am just dog poop in their shoes. Maybe that's who i am and will always be - the girl who will do anything in the backseat and doesnt' say no to anything. Usually I don't feel like I belong in their world because of what I've done.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's no big deal what i've done and you can just forget about it. But other times I feel like my dirty and sinful past is forever burned into me and deep inside a core part of who i am. I mean you can't change it and sex is like a very big deal when it comes down to it. No matter how hard I try to be something else, it's just who i am.


Lying is what you did that was wrong.

Having sex before being married does not make a woman bad.

Though there is a difference between having sex partners in the
single digits before being married and the girl that had sex with 
half of her high school only because she was not bi. If she was
then she would of done all the girls as well.


----------



## BluesPower

sokillme said:


> Not sure why you think she shouldn't feel guilty. She did wrong she feels guilty because she hasn't corrected that wrong. That is a good thing.


So, SKM, yes at one level. No doubt what she did was wrong. But you tell me the difference between these two statements. 

1) Husband, I lied to you about being a virgin before we married. I am sorry. But now I realize how much better in bed all of the other 25 guys were and you are just dead last. Do you want to get a divorce? 

2) Husband, I lied to you about being a virgin. I am so sorry. But you should know that off all the men that I have had, you are head and shoulders above all 25 of the other guys. I never knew sex could be this good. You make my toes curl. Do you want a divorce. 

See where this comes into play. And that is if she feels the need to tell. If he was better in bed, she would not even be thinking about telling him about all the great sex she had when she was younger. 



FrazzledSadHusband said:


> @JustTheWife,
> ps - all those other guys had the mindset of "I'm gonna get what I can get, and if she don't like it, I'll drop her & go to the next one". your H wants to be with you long term


I agree with some of your quote, but this part is just so wrong. See is seeing and starting to understand the difference between good sex and bad sex. Inexperience vs no experience. 

Her husband is probably so inexperienced he may not understand any of the different ways to make a woman orgasm or what that even looks like in real life. 

I know that the thread has shifted, but this is probably where is should be. Unless he H learns how to have sex, there is not real need to tell him and hurt him, she will probably divorce any way. If H and her change and it gets better, she might want to tell him, but she may not need to...


----------



## oldtruck

sokillme said:


> I will give you a better one which I bet will hit home more with the "how dare people make judgment" crowd. Say I am a "huuuge" Trump supporter (I'm not by the way I think the guy is a buffoon.), but lets say I am. I think he is the best president ever and love the way he sticks it to the "Libertards". Love my guns, wall, and lower taxes. Now I meet this really attractive women, she has a lot of things going for her and I really want to be with her mostly because she is hot. So I lie and say I am a Hillary supporter, I also never tell her I am pro-life :surprise: even though there are lots of discussions with her and her friends about abortion rights. I don't say anything. Then we end up getting married. I suspect the very same people who are so "how dare anyone make judgments, there are pressures on people not to tell the truth" on this thread would think I was the devil in those circumstances and would be pretty adamant about it.
> 
> My experience is that anyone who takes the time to say "live and let live", really just mean "live like me or shut up". If you really want to live or let live you don't say anything at all, you just let live. Everyone has strong opinions about stuff.
> 
> This is why all this outrage on both sides leaves me unimpressed. Everyone has a hill they would die on. No one is immune to having strong opinions, the people I have the biggest problem with are the ones who seem to take offense with those who have them. The only wrong on this whole thread was not being authentic. (Maybe the people who have a problem with others having strong opinions different from their own strong ones, maybe just a little hypocritical?) I really hope OP overcomes it, but the truth is, she is going to suffer because no matter if you believe the reasons are valid or not she made a very bad tactical error. One which is going to affect her life. I believe continuing with the same error is going to affect it worse though.


Lying about being a virgin can be attributed to self image protection.

Comparing to hide one's position on killing unborn children for a person when
asking someone to be your spouse that has the opposite position does not
compare to hiding one's sexual past.


----------



## sokillme

BluesPower said:


> So, SKM, yes at one level. No doubt what she did was wrong. But you tell me the difference between these two statements.
> 
> 1) Husband, I lied to you about being a virgin before we married. I am sorry. But now I realize how much better in bed all of the other 25 guys were and you are just dead last. Do you want to get a divorce?
> 
> 2) Husband, I lied to you about being a virgin. I am so sorry. But you should know that off all the men that I have had, you are head and shoulders above all 25 of the other guys. I never knew sex could be this good. You make my toes curl. Do you want a divorce.
> 
> See where this comes into play. And that is if she feels the need to tell. If he was better in bed, she would not even be thinking about telling him about all the great sex she had when she was younger.


First off it's just wrong if she is not thinking of telling her the truth. Her sexual past was obviously important to him, it's obvious he wanted their sexual history to be unique. It was wrong for her to marry him under false pretenses. 

As far as being better then the other guys, I guess I never though of that as a big deal in the sense that I don't see sex quality in a relationship as static. Anyone can improve their sex quality. I also think the person who feels the sex is bad is just as responsible for that as the one they are having sex with. Both people have to work on it. Yes some people just naturally think the same way and like the same stuff but some don't. At the end of the day you may not be able to be the absolute best with everyone as some of that has to do with general attraction, the situation, where it's happening, so on. However assuming both people work at it everyone can have great sex.

My feeling has always been assuming your partner isn't just selfish and lazy (and if that is the case I doubt they will care what their partner thinks anyway) then if your sex sucks what are YOU doing to change that. Just accepting it is your fault, there needs to be communication. I have always been attentive and asked questions with the women I have been with, I expected them to give me honest answers. It wasn't a lot by the way as I was not one to have sex with people I had no emotional attachment with. 

For instance some women like dominant sex, others like gentle tender sex. The first time you have sex it's a 50/50 chance or if your are smart you can start gentle and end aggressive. Also without experience I don't really know how attuned you are to subtle signals that women may give. In this case it doesn't sound like she is giving any signals at all as their sex life really revolves around her fear of being exposed as dishonest. Again most people when they first start out are not really thinking creatively. They are dealing with nerves and just getting used to the technical aspects. 

For this guy the only person he has had sex with has not given him any feedback at all. In fact she has conspired to hide her true feelings for him. Again he never had a chance.


----------



## Buddy400

inmyprime said:


> I am not sure it's about the performance. It's about the _feeling_. If the wife doesn't feel desired, no acrobatics or penis pumps in the bedroom can change this.


Many women's libido is driven by their partner's desire for them.

Some women (most?) want men to be dominant in bed. They interpret this as desire and see anything else as a lack of desire.

Some women want men to be dominant in bed but think that there's something wrong with wanting that and, therefore, don't get what they desire.

Some men are naturally dominant in bed. Sometimes this is because they really don't care about their partner.

Some men would like to be dominant in bed but aren't because they don't think their wife would like it or it's selfish to make it all about themselves.

Then there are some men who really don't want to be dominant in bed. Sometimes they can fake it and sometimes they can't. 

The OP can work to reinterpret what she sees as desire.

Or, she need to find out which of the last two sorts of man her husband is.


----------



## BluesPower

*Both of thses are good posts...*



sokillme said:


> First off it's just wrong if she is not thinking of telling her the truth. Her sexual past was obviously important to him, it's obvious he wanted their sexual history to be unique. It was wrong for her to marry him under false pretenses.
> 
> As far as being better then the other guys, I guess I never though of that as a big deal in the sense that I don't see sex quality in a relationship as static. Anyone can improve their sex quality. I also think the person who feels the sex is bad is just as responsible for that as the one they are having sex with. Both people have to work on it. Yes some people just naturally think the same way and like the same stuff but some don't. At the end of the day you may not be able to be the absolute best with everyone as some of that has to do with general attraction, the situation, where it's happening, so on. However assuming both people work at it everyone can have great sex.
> 
> My feeling has always been assuming your partner isn't just selfish and lazy (and if that is the case I doubt they will care what their partner thinks anyway) then if your sex sucks what are YOU doing to change that. Just accepting it is your fault, there needs to be communication. I have always been attentive and asked questions with the women I have been with, I expected them to give me honest answers. It wasn't a lot by the way as I was not one to have sex with people I had no emotional attachment with.
> 
> For instance some women like dominant sex, others like gentle tender sex. The first time you have sex it's a 50/50 chance or if your are smart you can start gentle and end aggressive. Also without experience I don't really know how attuned you are to subtle signals that women may give. In this case it doesn't sound like she is giving any signals at all as their sex life really revolves around her fear of being exposed as dishonest. Again most people when they first start out are not really thinking creatively. They are dealing with nerves and just getting used to the technical aspects.
> 
> For this guy the only person he has had sex with has not given him any feedback at all. In fact she has conspired to hide her true feelings for him. Again he never had a chance.


SKM, I agree with most of this and it is a good post. OP, you need to read what this person is saying. You need to learn to be open with your husband sexually, and just be open about what you want. And really, if you cannot be open with husband of all people, why even be married. 




Buddy400 said:


> Many women's libido is driven by their partner's desire for them.
> 
> Some women (most?) want men to be dominant in bed. They interpret this as desire and see anything else as a lack of desire.
> 
> Some women want men to be dominant in bed but think that there's something wrong with wanting that and, therefore, don't get what they desire.
> 
> Some men are naturally dominant in bed. Sometimes this is because they really don't care about their partner.
> 
> Some men would like to be dominant in bed but aren't because they don't think their wife would like it or it's selfish to make it all about themselves.
> 
> Then there are some men who really don't want to be dominant in bed. Sometimes they can fake it and sometimes they can't.
> 
> The OP can work to reinterpret what she sees as desire.
> 
> Or, she need to find out which of the last two sorts of man her husband is.



To Buddy and SKM...

Anecdotally I think that the number of women that want to be dominated in bed is probably closer to 75% and maybe higher. In my experience, with a fairly large sample size, it is at least that high. 

And also, men that are dominate in bed are not that way because they don't care. They are almost all that way because experience informs them that that is what most women want. Most, of course not all, men should/do want to please their partners so in order to do that we have to be dominant. 

It is that way for me for sure. While I may be a dominant male and function that way in bed, I have enjoyed the women that I have been with that just want to have passionate tender sex. I find that very enjoyable. 

I don't mind being dominate, I mean good sex is good, but HAVING to be dominate all the time is a little tiring. But alas, a mans work is never done...


----------



## oldtruck

oldshirt said:


> Why would I?
> 
> There is no reason for any person to discuss their previous marital sex life details with a date or post-divorce relationship.
> 
> If you were divorced/widowed, would you feel any need to be upfront if you did anal with your wife if you were seeing someone? Would you give them a complete list of what positions and techniques and activities that you did any bed? Would there be any legitimate need for someone you were dating to know if you sucked your ex wife's toes or not? Would they have any legitimate need to know if you used toys or vibrators in the marital bed?


When a woman is dating a man and she finds out that his last wife indulged his foot fetish
is important to know. Because for the next potential wife that maybe a deal breaker for her.
Called the bait and switch by the man. Now that we are married dear are you going to engage
my foot fetish. What do you mean no. I like it, a lot.

Swinging is another whole level and a half. The new potential wife that can be a deal killer.
Because what is to stop her new husband from wanting to swing again after they get married.

Yes sexual past history is best left in the past in general. Though the things that are deal
breakers cannot be kept secret as stripper, porn star, sex worker.


----------



## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> Or, she need to find out which of the last two sorts of man her husband is.


it's also possible he's not into women that much...


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

@JustTheWife - In all seriousness, (graphic language), have H listen to this & then discuss.


----------



## oldtruck

Araucaria said:


> Your friends don't have to know about your sex life from before you were married or about it currently. It is none of their business. Most likely, a few if not several of them also had premarital sex, and it is none of your business. People, especially young people, do things that they later regret. No one has the duty to inform everyone they meet of all the stupid things they did before they grew up emotionally and spiritually.
> 
> Your husband, however, did have a right to know the truth about the woman he was falling in love with. You valued virginity, even though you were no longer a virgin due to your poor emotional and spiritual state. He also valued it and claims you were his first.
> 
> You aren't a wh*re, even though maybe you used to be one, according to the definition. The guys you were sexual with were also wh*res, even though society doesn't look at it like that.
> 
> Just so you know, I too was a wh*re before I married my husband. I wasn't a Christian (yet) and I used all my previous experience to seduce him...he was a 29 year old Christian virgin, saving himself for his wife. He felt guilty about what we were doing, and suddenly, (after I believed in Jesus) I realized that I was actively encouraging a person to go against their values...I stopped, and the last 5 months of our engagement were sex free.
> 
> The day after he asked me to marry him, I sat him down and told him about all the things I had done in my life that I thought he might take issue with: sex with many people, cocaine use a couple of times, pot use a few times, and infidelity in my first marriage. It was pretty bad. I thought he was going to take back his proposal, but I wanted him to know everything about me, so he would never feel betrayed or lied to and regret marrying me.
> 
> He listened and said that all that I told him was done before I gave my life to Christ and that God had forgiven me, so who was he to hold a grudge. He knew I was not going to repeat any of it, and to this day, I haven't. He is the one who was unfaithful, and who brought me to TAM!!
> 
> (After 26 years of marriage, and his own infidelity he got retroactive jealousy for about 6 months. He was really bothered about my having had sex with men other than him...even though it was before we met!! He is over it now.)
> 
> Since his infidelity he has realized that he is the one who lied to me before and after our marriage...not about his virginity, but about lots of little things he was ashamed of, or feared he'd be rejected over. I would have been angry, but we would have gotten through it.
> 
> Since you are a faithful wife, that is all he needs to know about you. However, if you ever want to feel 100% sure that your marriage is authentic, and that he truly loves you for who you are, even with all your stupid mistakes, you might need to tell him about your lie. He will feel betrayed, and feel your marriage has been a sham from day 1 until the day you told him the truth. In a way it has been a sham. That is why you are feeling badly about your first lie, and continuous lying to uphold the first lie.
> 
> Just know: from the day you tell him the truth, and on into the future, your marriage will be 100% authentic for you and for your husband.
> 
> He will struggle with the truth, maybe for quite a while, but if his faith is real, and if his love is real, he will get through to the other side, and your marriage will be stronger than it ever was.


I will not say you were wrong to tell your BF/H to be. Though there was a good
chance he would of not found out and not had retroactive jealousy and had a RA.


----------



## oldtruck

NextTimeAround said:


> This is kind of like anti abortionists who get outed for having had an abortion.


It is easy to be all for killing babies in the womb.
Or having any other position.

I applaud those that after doing it now regret it.
And are now fighting to stop it.

This is not about being a hypocrite it is about
realizing the damage done and the remorse.


----------



## oldtruck

JustTheWife said:


> My husband is not very sexual. I do not and will not refuse things with him (within reason of course). He can have all of me whenever he wants. I've done many things that I haven't done with my husband but I'd do it all with him if he wanted to.
> 
> I will try to get some help from a professional. I am confused by my past and consumed by it. it's like a confused mix of shame, guilt and yes, i'm ashamed to say that I still fantasize about it and have sexual feelings about it. It's always in my head. This adds to my feelings of guilt. It's not just in the past as I try to make myself believe. It's with me every day tormenting me with guilt and yes, also enticing me and luring me back into that world (I don't mean that i'm cheating but my mind drifts back there...) Ughh. I'm so messed up.


It is your fault that you do not tell your H that lets experiment.
Tonight let us try this................


----------



## oldtruck

JustTheWife said:


> I know he's never had a woman take off all of her clothes and offer to do ANYTHING for him. I know that I have not done everything right in my life but this is my special gift to him. Why doesn't he want me like that?


Because he never had a woman show him all that can be done.
Including you.


----------



## oldshirt

These are all things that can be discussed on a case by case basis. There is no need for any kind of itemized printout of someone's previous sexual activities. 

Let me address your specific points in bold below.




oldtruck said:


> When a woman is dating a man and she finds out that his last wife indulged his foot fetish
> is important to know.
> 
> *No it is not. If she wants to indulge his fetish that is her prerogative - it makes no matter if his previous partner did or did not.
> . *
> 
> 
> Because for the next potential wife that maybe a deal breaker for her.
> 
> *If she does not want to do a particular activity, then she can decline. Whether previous partner did or did not has no relevance to her. *
> 
> 
> Called the bait and switch by the man.
> 
> *Where are you getting bait and switch??? Bait and switch leading someone on that you will do something or like something and then once the cow is purchased, not providing the milk.*
> 
> 
> Now that we are married dear are you going to engage
> my foot fetish. What do you mean no. I like it, a lot.
> 
> *That is something that needs to be determined one way or another before marriage. And again, whether a previous partner did or did not do it has no bearing on current relationship.
> 
> If someone wants to do something, they can. If someone does not want to do something, that is their prerogative and choice. What a previous partner did or did not do has no relevance to the current partner.*
> 
> 
> 
> Swinging is another whole level and a half. The new potential wife that can be a deal killer.
> 
> *Again, that is between the partners in the current relationship. If they want to swing, they can. If they don't, that is their call. Whether it was done or not done in the previous relationship has no relevance to the current partner. *
> 
> Because what is to stop her new husband from wanting to swing again after they get married.
> 
> *- Saying no.
> 
> 
> Again, this is something that is determined on a case by case basis with regard to what a previous partner did or did not do. If someone wants to swing, they can ask their partner. That partner can either accept or decline based on their own interests and preferences. If they want to, they can. If they don't want to, they don't have to. Whether the previous partner did or did not, does not matter to them. (or at least it shouldn't)
> 
> *
> 
> Yes sexual past history is best left in the past in general. Though the things that are deal
> 
> 
> breakers cannot be kept secret as stripper, porn star, sex worker.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like those are the things that SHOULD be kept private the most LOL ;-)


----------



## oldshirt

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not good at taking the lead in sex. I don't like it and it doesn't do anything for me. With all the other guys, they were in charge of me. They "made" me do everything. I want to be the good girl that just did what she was told. And the bad girl that did something that she wasn't supposed to do.
> 
> I want guys to "make" me to do things that are so "wrong"and teach me how to be a bad girl. I can't be teaching someone about sex.
> 
> This probably sounds really odd so i hope you understand what i'm saying.


The more I read your posts and this thread, the more I think you two are simply incompatible in bed and he didn't trip your trigger sexually. 

That really doesn't have squat to do with your past. You could be the sweet, innocent, virgin girl and you'd still be looking at the ceiling and watching the clock hoping that he gets done before Jimmy Fallon comes on. 

Your past and all your feelings of guilt and shame etc are just church indoctrination and your own personal baggage. It doesn't have anything to with him. You'd still have guilt and shame and still be bored and frustrated in bed even if you were a virgin girl. 

Your virginity would not make him a good lover nor would it make you sexually responsive to him. 

This is all smoke screen and fluff. 

have three basic choices here - 

- pull up your big-girl pants and communicate with him what you need to be sexually satisfied with him. 

- make a clean break from him and find someone more sexually compatible.

- live with it. 

Those are your three basic options. None of them have anything to do with your past and telling him your past will do nothing to change any of those options. 

The only impact your past is having is on your own psyche and your own sense of guilt and shame. 

That's what we have psychotherapists for. That's your cross to bear and the cross you'd bear regardless of who you were with. So for your own sake you can seek individual counseling. 

But your sexual issues with him are an issue of compatibility and he not being the kind of man you dig in bed. It doesn't have anything to do with your past. You and many of the posters here are trying to connect dots that don't really connect.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> The only impact your past is having is on your own psyche and your own sense of guilt and shame.


Lying about her past is making her be dishonest with her husband on an ongoing basis. You don't see this having anything to do with their problems? Again sex for most people is not great out of the gate. How can they even try to get better when she isn't honest with him?

Clearly you find no value in having a unique, one and only sex partner, but just because you see no value in that doesn't mean that others don't have a right to want that. It also doesn't mean they are religious nuts to want it either. You are awfully dismissive of people who don't think like you do.


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> Lying about her past is making her be dishonest with her husband on an ongoing basis. You don't see this having anything to do with their problems? Again sex for most people is not great out of the gate. How can they even try to get better when she isn't honest with him?
> 
> Clearly you find no value in having a unique, one and only sex partner, but just because you see no value in that doesn't mean that others don't have a right to want that. It also doesn't mean they are religious nuts to want it either. You are awfully dismissive of people who don't think like you do.


That's not what I am saying. 

Her guilt and shame are having an impact on her psyche and that in turn will effect their relationship. 

I've been saying since the beginning of this thread that she should seek individual, secular therapy from a professional therapist trained in western science-based therapy (ie not a clergy or faith-based counseling)

What I am saying is that her past is not making him a dud in bed and even if she was a sweet and innocent virgin girl, she would still be frustrated and dissatisfied. 

He past does not determine his skillset in bed. 

She likes sexually assertive men that are dominant in bed - he is not that. He would not be sexually assertive and dominant in bed even if she had no previous experience. 

Now I will concede that if she had no previous experience to compare to, she may be as able to express her dissatisfaction to us as explicitely, but she would be just as dissatisfied the same....... she just wouldn't be able to express it as clearly. 

Yes she was dishonest with him in leading him to believe that she was virginal blah blah blah and yes her guilt and shame etc is weighing on her which is likely spilling over into other areas of the relationship. 

But my point is their sexual issues and incompatibility and dissatisfaction etc are not due to her prior experience. It is due to his lack of initiative and dominance and skill etc. That would still be at issue whether she was a goddess of virginity and purity or whether she was the town ho. 

Her choices are address her needs and express to him what she needs in bed. 

Leave and find someone who does satisfy her.

Or suck it up and live with it. 

(she could also ask for an open marriage to get her sexual needs elsewhere or get it on the down-low, but that's a whole other can of worms that will just make everything worse, so let's not mess with that) 

Her disclosure of her past partners and experiences really does not effect or impact any of those choices. It is a smoke screen and red herring in my opinion. 

Her guilt and shame are her baggage and her cross to bear and her issue to fix. It really doesn't have anything to do with him. his sexual skillset and lack of sexual prowess was not caused by and is not contingent on her sexual history. 

Their sexual compatibility issue is something that is between them today and irrelevant to her sexual activities of days gone by.


----------



## oldshirt

Let me put this another way using my wife and I as an example. 

My wife was in her mid 20s and had had other sex partners and activities before me. 

I had had previous partners and activities as well. 

I have no idea how many people she has been with and have no idea what positions, techniques, activities etc etc that they did. Nor does she have any idea how many people I have been with or what kinds of activities I had done previously. 

When she and I became sexually active, I did the stuff I liked to do and she did the stuff she liked to do. 

It all clicked and worked for us and a good time was had by both of us and 25 years later, here we are. We are still married and still having sex (maybe a little less frequently now in our 50s than when we were in our 20s, but still having sex nonetheless  )

My skillset and my ability to please her, were not based on her previous partners or experiences. She simply dug what I did. 

Her skillset and ability to please me was not based on my previous partners and activities. I simply dug what she did. 

We were compatible and hit it off sexually regardless of our previous experiences or lack there of.


----------



## BluesPower

*SKM, brother you understand that...*



sokillme said:


> Lying about her past is making her be dishonest with her husband on an ongoing basis. You don't see this having anything to do with their problems? Again sex for most people is not great out of the gate. How can they even try to get better when she isn't honest with him?
> 
> Clearly you find no value in having a unique, one and only sex partner, but just because you see no value in that doesn't mean that others don't have a right to want that. It also doesn't mean they are religious nuts to want it either. You are awfully dismissive of people who don't think like you do.


SKM, brother you understand that...you are being quite dogmatic about this. I get that you think it is really a wrong thing to do, But now everyone thinks of feels that way. 

I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage. 

I personally believe that if H was ringing her bell, that the guilt might be lessoned. I cannot tell you how many threads and people that I know IRL (actually the wives that are sniffing around) that have horrible sex lives in their marriage. 

Why people get married when they have no sexual chemistry is a mystery to me. I guess most of the time they don't know any better. 

If hubby learns how to get the job done before it is too late, the guilt from her past may go away, and it may not. But either way telling hubby in the current circumstance will most likely end that marriage, whether she wants it to or not. 

An example from my life... Newest GF, when we first started dating, asked my what my number was. I told her she would never know that number. She is a little leery about where I have been, and I get that. She is a little different than me in that respect. She is some what repulsed by what she guesses the number is, and her guess is really low. 

However, even though she was very inexperienced before we met, she is naturally a great lover. I have taught he a little, since we got together and she learns super fast. She is actually, one of the best, and maybe the best I have ever had. I tell her that all the time. (Wow, she really is great...) 

Now, since the sex is good and she already feels more confident in her sexuality, do you think she is that worried about the other women that I have been with? Not really. 

She is a little perturbed about ex lovers or GF, that come sniffing around than my sexual past. 

Does that make sense?


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> Let me put this another way using my wife and I as an example.
> 
> My wife was in her mid 20s and had had other sex partners and activities before me.
> 
> I had had previous partners and activities as well.
> 
> I have no idea how many people she has been with and have no idea what positions, techniques, activities etc etc that they did. Nor does she have any idea how many people I have been with or what kinds of activities I had done previously.
> 
> When she and I became sexually active, I did the stuff I liked to do and she did the stuff she liked to do.
> 
> It all clicked and worked for us and a good time was had by both of us and 25 years later, here we are. We are still married and still having sex (maybe a little less frequently now in our 50s than when we were in our 20s, but still having sex nonetheless  )
> 
> My skillset and my ability to please her, were not based on her previous partners or experiences. She simply dug what I did.
> 
> Her skillset and ability to please me was not based on my previous partners and activities. I simply dug what she did.
> 
> We were compatible and hit it off sexually regardless of our previous experiences or lack there of.


So for you it clicked, but for others it doesn't which is why you need healthy communication, to learn and grow. Personally I think if she is not going to be honest with him she should divorce him. They may have a chance if they are completely honest but if they are not going to be there is no hope.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



BluesPower said:


> SKM, brother you understand that...you are being quite dogmatic about this. I get that you think it is really a wrong thing to do, But now everyone thinks of feels that way.
> 
> I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage.
> 
> I personally believe that if H was ringing her bell, that the guilt might be lessoned. I cannot tell you how many threads and people that I know IRL (actually the wives that are sniffing around) that have horrible sex lives in their marriage.
> 
> Why people get married when they have no sexual chemistry is a mystery to me. I guess most of the time they don't know any better.
> 
> If hubby learns how to get the job done before it is too late, the guilt from her past may go away, and it may not. But either way telling hubby in the current circumstance will most likely end that marriage, whether she wants it to or not.
> 
> An example from my life... Newest GF, when we first started dating, asked my what my number was. I told her she would never know that number. She is a little leery about where I have been, and I get that. She is a little different than me in that respect. She is some what repulsed by what she guesses the number is, and her guess is really low.
> 
> However, even though she was very inexperienced before we met, she is naturally a great lover. I have taught he a little, since we got together and she learns super fast. She is actually, one of the best, and maybe the best I have ever had. I tell her that all the time. (Wow, she really is great...)
> 
> Now, since the sex is good and she already feels more confident in her sexuality, do you think she is that worried about the other women that I have been with? Not really.
> 
> She is a little perturbed about ex lovers or GF, that come sniffing around than my sexual past.
> 
> Does that make sense?


I actually don't necessarily disagree with you to a point. For instance I have a general idea of my wife's history and that she felt the same way I did about sex (we both needed to have an emotional relationship to want to have sex) so I know her count is low. But I don't know or even care about her exact count. It was enough to know that we were on the same page. I also have not fear of her past experience, nor to I care. So I agree to an extent. 

But this relationship has no honesty in it. She has presented herself to be on the same page with him even though she is not in any way. Your right they probably are not sexually compatible, but that is not his fault.


----------



## Wolfman1968

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



BluesPower said:


> SKM, brother you understand that...you are being quite dogmatic about this. I get that you think it is really a wrong thing to do, But now everyone thinks of feels that way.
> 
> I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage.



Is it not possible that the two issues are linked?

If she had no prior history, she might be less timid about directing her husband about what she wants in bed. I wonder if her guilt/concern about her prior history inhibits her about being forthright with her husband about her desires, because she doesn't want him to guess at her prior history.


(And, for what it's worth, it's very one-sided to call the husband a "dud in bed" because he hasn't assumed a dominant role. Heck, if HIS needs are for a dominant woman, then by his definition SHE'S the "dud in bed". Or, if part of being a good sexual partner is to verbalize your needs, then by that criteria she would be a "dud in bed" because she's too shy to say what she wants unequivocally. I think it's better just to say they are currently sexually incompatible--less blame-casting that way.)


----------



## Adelais

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it not possible that the two issues are linked?
> 
> If she had no prior history, she might be less timid about directing her husband about what she wants in bed. I wonder if her guilt/concern about her prior history inhibits her about being forthright with her husband about her desires, because she doesn't want him to guess at her prior history.
> 
> 
> I agree with this first part.
> 
> (And, for what it's worth, it's very one-sided to call the husband a "dud in bed" because he hasn't assumed a dominant role. Heck, if HIS needs are for a dominant woman, then by his definition SHE'S the "dud in bed". Or, if part of being a good sexual partner is to verbalize your needs, then by that criteria she would be a "dud in bed" because she's too shy to say what she wants unequivocally. I think it's better just to say they are currently sexually incompatible--less blame-casting that way.)


I doubt he is wanting a dominant woman. He is just figuring things out without any help from her, since she has to hide her knowledge from him. She can't even be a little creative, because like you said, she is afraid he will wonder where the idea came from. 

He might not think she is a dud, but thinks she is shy, and he is also shy. He might be really enjoying what TAMers call vanilla sex, since it is all the sex he has had so far. OTOH, he could be getting more curious and creative in his mind, but is withholding telling her about his ideas, not wanting to frighten or put her off, waiting until he thinks she might be up for something new.


----------



## Wolfman1968

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Araucaria said:


> I doubt he is wanting a dominant woman. He is just figuring things out without any help from her, since she has to hide her knowledge from him. She can't even be a little creative, because like you said, she is afraid he will wonder where the idea came from.
> 
> He might not think she is a dud, but thinks she is shy, and he is also shy. He might be really enjoying what TAMers call vanilla sex, since it is all the sex he has had so far. OTOH, he could be getting more curious and creative in his mind, but is withholding telling her about his ideas, not wanting to frighten or put her off, waiting until he thinks she might be up for something new.



I'm not saying she necessarily IS a dud. I'm just appealing to TAM to avoid using inflammatory labels when, by looking at it from another perspective, in some circumstances you could argue the exact opposite position. Using a label like "sexually incompatible" is not only less inflammatory and less blaming, it is usually more accurate.


----------



## Adelais

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Wolfman1968 said:


> I'm not saying she necessarily IS a dud. I'm just appealing to TAM to avoid using inflammatory labels when, by looking at it from another perspective, in some circumstances you could argue the exact opposite position. Using a label like *"sexually incompatible"* is not only less inflammatory and less blaming, it is usually more accurate.


I doubt he thinks they are sexually incompatible. He's still in the newness phase and is probably shy about doing things he thinks might be crossing her personal boundaries. He probably doesn't fully understand that they are one flesh and that they overflow to each other. I don't think OP realizes that either, or she would be sharing more of her "creativity" (experience) with her husband without fear of rejection.


----------



## BluesPower

*Some of this is true, but...*



Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it not possible that the two issues are linked?
> 
> If she had no prior history, she might be less timid about directing her husband about what she wants in bed. I wonder if her guilt/concern about her prior history inhibits her about being forthright with her husband about her desires, because she doesn't want him to guess at her prior history.
> 
> 
> (And, for what it's worth, it's very one-sided to call the husband a "dud in bed" because he hasn't assumed a dominant role. Heck, if HIS needs are for a dominant woman, then by his definition SHE'S the "dud in bed". Or, if part of being a good sexual partner is to verbalize your needs, then by that criteria she would be a "dud in bed" because she's too shy to say what she wants unequivocally. I think it's better just to say they are currently sexually incompatible--less blame-casting that way.)


I agree with the first part to an extent. But not with the second. Now I am older and more experienced but even when I was a kid, I understood that a romantic relationship included good sex. And in my mind, then and now, I always understood that HER needs came first. I have no idea where I learned that, probably from one of the older women that I used to see, but it also seemed to be common knowledge back then. Or was the just me and the people I was around? 

There seems to be some element of ignorance these days with young people. But with OP's husband, yeah I am calling him a dud in bed. If you are not making your women happy happy happy in bed, sorry I don't think there is a better word. 

We could say that he is ignorant about sex, I don't know if that sounds better or not. And I stand by the fact that no man or woman should be ignorant about sex these days. There is just so much information out there these days there is no excuse. 



Araucaria said:


> I doubt he thinks they are sexually incompatible. He's still in the newness phase and is probably shy about doing things he thinks might be crossing her personal boundaries. He probably doesn't fully understand that they are one flesh and that they overflow to each other. I don't think OP realizes that either, or she would be sharing more of her "creativity" (experience) with her husband without fear of rejection.


I agree with this a lot. He is probably so clueless about sex that he has no idea that she is not being fulfilled. Again, why are people, especially men, like this. 



Wolfman1968 said:


> I'm not saying she necessarily IS a dud. I'm just appealing to TAM to avoid using inflammatory labels when, by looking at it from another perspective, in some circumstances you could argue the exact opposite position. Using a label like "sexually incompatible" is not only less inflammatory and less blaming, it is usually more accurate.


Like I said above, he is a dud. How he got that way is something that we could maybe debate and possibly figure out. But that would probably take a whole other site just devoted to that question, "Why are people so clueless about sex these days when there is no excuse?".

But I will say this, now that she is married, and if she loves (questionable) her husband and want to stay married... She has to find a way to help him learn something about sex. It is for her benefit and his benefit, and above all the marriages benefit...


----------



## TJW

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Araucaria said:


> I doubt he thinks they are sexually incompatible. He's still in the newness phase and is probably shy about doing things he thinks might be crossing her personal boundaries. He probably doesn't fully understand that they are one flesh and that they overflow to each other. I don't think OP realizes that either, or she would be sharing more of her "creativity" (experience) with her husband without fear of rejection.


Her fear of his rejection is not at all unfounded. In fact, I believe that her "sharing" must be under the control of a professional therapist if there is any expectation that her marriage will not end in shambles.

My first marriage was a similar experience to theirs. I wasn't a virgin, but had very limited sexual exposure. Prior to our first sexual encounter, we had not discussed the disparity in our pasts at all. We were both christians and felt that each of us was God's choice for the other. I was quite happy in that belief, and I think she was as well. We both believed in God's ability to redeem us and provide us with a great marriage, including great sex. Neither of us thought that our pasts had any power over us. She had been married before, I had a GF or two. I really considered us quite "equal" - from a simplistic view. She wasn't a virgin, I wasn't a virgin. That's how I thought things worked. I forgive her, she forgives me. We "go from there".

Our first sexual encounter was enlightening...... I thought it was terrific. I orgasmed inside her very soon after penentration, maybe only a couple of minutes. I had read that this was not uncommon, especially for newbies. I continued to bring her to a couple of orgasms through manual and oral. In my prior experience, neither of my grand total of 2 women over a total of less than 10 experiences had expressed anything other than pleasure. I never knew anything about their pasts, but I don't think either of them were hugely active.

But I could tell, when we were finished, that she was not pleased at all. There was no discussion about it until the following day. I told her I knew she wasn't happy with it, and asked why. That's when the floodgate opened. She told me details of her prior guys which roughly described 1000 of the raunchiest porn films which I never saw  - these things had not even entered into my imagination. She might as well have described a scenario in which I made a walk-on tryout for the Phillies, and went on in that season to break Roger Maris' home run record. In fact, I think that scenario is more plausible than what I found myself up against.

I knew, at that moment, that I would never be able to please her. The things she wanted were completely "beyond the pale" to me. I tried counseling. I tried the bible. I tried ministers. I tried friends. I tried books. If there was an internet, I would have tried it. I tried as hard as I knew how to try, to apply the christian principles I so totally trusted and believed in. 

We both tried. I think she wanted our marriage to work as much as I did. But, if I'm completely honest about it, our marriage ended less than 24 hours after it consummated. No, there was no legal divorce. No, there was no physical separation. Yes, there were continued feeble attempts on my part to provide sex for her. But, I was so humiliated, so embarrassed, so ashamed of myself, that it was strictly "going through the motions". I had no belief whatsoever that I would ever accomplish a position in her esteem.

It took her 5 months to begin multiple adulteries. Everything out of her mouth, from that second day, was received by me as disparaging. Any "suggestion" or "request" which had even the most remote connection to sex felt like a hot dart through my sternum.

I know my own heart. I search it daily with my recollection of the scripture. I know there was absolutely not one scintilla of unforgiveness toward her, and not one jot nor tittle of any intent to "reject" her. However, I also know that is how she received it.

The unforgiveness I had in my heart was toward me. For being a "dud in bed". My rejection was of me, not her. But, the "one flesh overflow" you refer to operates in the negative as well as the positive.


----------



## TJW

*Re: Some of this is true, but...*



BluesPower said:


> But I will say this, now that she is married, and if she loves (questionable) her husband and want to stay married... She has to find a way to help him learn something about sex. It is for her benefit and his benefit, and above all the marriages benefit...


I agree. But I think the "way" has to be from a professional 3rd party, with her acceptance of the progress rate and the milestones set by the professional.

I believe that attempting to "teach" him herself is going to be a very sudden and quick train wreck.


----------



## BluesPower

*Well that is about the most horrible thing that I have read...*



TJW said:


> Her fear of his rejection is not at all unfounded. In fact, I believe that her "sharing" must be under the control of a professional therapist if there is any expectation that her marriage will not end in shambles.
> 
> My first marriage was a similar experience to theirs. I wasn't a virgin, but had very limited sexual exposure. Prior to our first sexual encounter, we had not discussed the disparity in our pasts at all. We were both christians and felt that each of us was God's choice for the other. I was quite happy in that belief, and I think she was as well. We both believed in God's ability to redeem us and provide us with a great marriage, including great sex. Neither of us thought that our pasts had any power over us. She had been married before, I had a GF or two. I really considered us quite "equal" - from a simplistic view. She wasn't a virgin, I wasn't a virgin. That's how I thought things worked. I forgive her, she forgives me. We "go from there".
> 
> Our first sexual encounter was enlightening...... I thought it was terrific. I orgasmed inside her very soon after penentration, maybe only a couple of minutes. I had read that this was not uncommon, especially for newbies. I continued to bring her to a couple of orgasms through manual and oral. In my prior experience, neither of my grand total of 2 women over a total of less than 10 experiences had expressed anything other than pleasure. I never knew anything about their pasts, but I don't think either of them were hugely active.
> 
> But I could tell, when we were finished, that she was not pleased at all. There was no discussion about it until the following day. I told her I knew she wasn't happy with it, and asked why. That's when the floodgate opened. She told me details of her prior guys which roughly described 1000 of the raunchiest porn films which I never saw  - these things had not even entered into my imagination. She might as well have described a scenario in which I made a walk-on tryout for the Phillies, and went on in that season to break Roger Maris' home run record. In fact, I think that scenario is more plausible than what I found myself up against.
> 
> I knew, at that moment, that I would never be able to please her. The things she wanted were completely "beyond the pale" to me. I tried counseling. I tried the bible. I tried ministers. I tried friends. I tried books. If there was an internet, I would have tried it. I tried as hard as I knew how to try, to apply the christian principles I so totally trusted and believed in.
> 
> We both tried. I think she wanted our marriage to work as much as I did. But, if I'm completely honest about it, our marriage ended less than 24 hours after it consummated. No, there was no legal divorce. No, there was no physical separation. Yes, there were continued feeble attempts on my part to provide sex for her. But, I was so humiliated, so embarrassed, so ashamed of myself, that it was strictly "going through the motions". I had no belief whatsoever that I would ever accomplish a position in her esteem.
> 
> It took her 5 months to begin multiple adulteries. Everything out of her mouth, from that second day, was received by me as disparaging. Any "suggestion" or "request" which had even the most remote connection to sex felt like a hot dart through my sternum.
> 
> I know my own heart. I search it daily with my recollection of the scripture. I know there was absolutely not one scintilla of unforgiveness toward her, and not one jot nor tittle of any intent to "reject" her. However, I also know that is how she received it.
> 
> The unforgiveness I had in my heart was toward me. For being a "dud in bed". My rejection was of me, not her. But, the "one flesh overflow" you refer to operates in the negative as well as the positive.


Well that is about the most horrible thing that I have read... I am sorry that happened to you. 

What happened in the long run? Surly you are not still married? 

Have you ever been able to "learn" anything about sex since then? 

Brother I am sorry...


----------



## TJW

*Re: Well that is about the most horrible thing that I have read...*



BluesPower said:


> Surly you are not still married?
> Have you ever been able to "learn" anything about sex since then?


Marriage has given me 2 happys and 2 sads. The first sad was my first marriage, in which my first wife died from liver failure at age 36, after 5 years of marriage.

The first happy is that I remarried 11 months later. She was a good and sweet wife. We had some marital issues, to be sure. We didn't have much sex. We probably had less than 15 experiences and all of them were within the first 2 years of our marriage. Although few in number, they brought satisfaction to both of us.

The second sad is that she contracted fibromyalgia and spent the last 13 years of our 18 year marriage bedridden, and died of an accidental prescription pain medication overdose. She had "graduated" to transdermal fentanyl for about the last 3 years she lived.

The second happy is that I remarried in 2010 to one woman who was my GF in the late 70s before my first marriage.
We are extremely happy together for the last 8 years. And, yes, I have learned more about sex in the last 8 years. My wife has, too, and we have enjoyed our "playtimes" greatly....interestingly enough, we enjoyed them 40 years ago also.

These are some of the reasons why I keep posting to this young woman that God is able....even in circumstances which seem humanly impossible, He can reign and bring His joy to us.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: Both of thses are good posts...*



BluesPower said:


> I don't mind being dominate, I mean good sex is good, but HAVING to be dominate all the time is a little tiring. But alas, a mans work is never done...


I'm hearing a growing number of young men complaining about the having to do the aggressive sex thing all the time.

Then again, maybe it's the women thinking that this is what men want.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: Well that is about the most horrible thing that I have read...*



TJW said:


> Marriage has given me 2 happys and 2 sads. The first sad was my first marriage, in which my first wife died from liver failure at age 36, after 5 years of marriage.
> 
> The first happy is that I remarried 11 months later. She was a good and sweet wife. We had some marital issues, to be sure. We didn't have much sex. We probably had less than 15 experiences and all of them were within the first 2 years of our marriage. Although few in number, they brought satisfaction to both of us.
> 
> The second sad is that she contracted fibromyalgia and spent the last 13 years of our 18 year marriage bedridden, and died of an accidental prescription pain medication overdose. She had "graduated" to transdermal fentanyl for about the last 3 years she lived.
> 
> The second happy is that I remarried in 2010 to one woman who was my GF in the late 70s before my first marriage.
> We are extremely happy together for the last 8 years. And, yes, I have learned more about sex in the last 8 years. My wife has, too, and we have enjoyed our "playtimes" greatly....interestingly enough, we enjoyed them 40 years ago also.
> 
> These are some of the reasons why I keep posting to this young woman that God is able....even in circumstances which seem humanly impossible, He can reign and bring His joy to us.


What's a shame is that your first wife and you were not compatible but you internalized that as all your fault. She sounds like a completely broken person (as she cheated multiple times in 6 months? How did her first marriage brake up?) and you decided that that was your fault. Not usual though it seems. I don't think most people need pornstar sex to have a good sex life.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



BluesPower said:


> SKM, brother you understand that...you are being quite dogmatic about this. I get that you think it is really a wrong thing to do, But now everyone thinks of feels that way.
> 
> I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage.
> 
> I personally believe that if H was ringing her bell, that the guilt might be lessoned. I cannot tell you how many threads and people that I know IRL (actually the wives that are sniffing around) that have horrible sex lives in their marriage.
> 
> Why people get married when they have no sexual chemistry is a mystery to me. I guess most of the time they don't know any better.
> 
> If hubby learns how to get the job done before it is too late, the guilt from her past may go away, and it may not. But either way telling hubby in the current circumstance will most likely end that marriage, whether she wants it to or not.
> 
> An example from my life... Newest GF, when we first started dating, asked my what my number was. I told her she would never know that number. She is a little leery about where I have been, and I get that. She is a little different than me in that respect. She is some what repulsed by what she guesses the number is, and her guess is really low.
> 
> However, even though she was very inexperienced before we met, she is naturally a great lover. I have taught he a little, since we got together and she learns super fast. She is actually, one of the best, and maybe the best I have ever had. I tell her that all the time. (Wow, she really is great...)
> 
> Now, since the sex is good and she already feels more confident in her sexuality, do you think she is that worried about the other women that I have been with? Not really.
> 
> She is a little perturbed about ex lovers or GF, that come sniffing around than my sexual past.
> 
> Does that make sense?


IMHO and in my experience, OP telling the number now is useless and likely problem causing, for no benefit except to OP.

Also, if OP doesn't communicate her sexual preferences, what she likes, etc, so H can grow with her (or at least have his chance) she's now fussing because he's not a mind reader. Give H a reasonable chance or stay with H happily as is, and don't blame him in case of a D. No one wants that if a little communication can be used to avoid. It's like OP can tell anyone but H what she wants. If this continues OP is being put in a worse light.

In my experience most women do want to be dominated most of the time and a good man stays in tune with the woman he's with to see if each night might be different, IE it's not a "most of the time" encounter. Hard, but not impossible. 
Fun always.

Women are great creatures. To care for and enjoy always. Fully. Each encounter can be the same but different. Each encounter can be different but the same. Some women you may meet 5 minutes before enjoying their company. Some for longer. Sometimes they'll say what they want more of, sometimes not. That can be fun both ways. One live in GF in my early days would never say, but would let me know. And our positions or locations were only limited by both our imaginations. I was 6'3 180lbs, she 5'2, petite. And, I can say this only of a couple out of xxx, she never ever said no to sex for over a year and half. At that age which meant every night and sometimes during the day. Even after doing once when going to bed, sleep, wake in middle of night, roll over for again, back to sleep. 😊 I'm still at 180-185lbs.

But in this case dear God tell him what you want, once or twice, at least give him a chance. H may not be able to read body language, surely isn't a mind reader. I say all of this only to encourage OP to talk to H. Sorry if off topic.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Re: Both of thses are good posts...*



BluesPower said:


> SKM, brother you understand that...you are being quite dogmatic about this. I get that you think it is really a wrong thing to do, But now everyone thinks of feels that way.
> 
> I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage.
> 
> I personally believe that if H was ringing her bell, that the guilt might be lessoned. I cannot tell you how many threads and people that I know IRL (actually the wives that are sniffing around) that have horrible sex lives in their marriage.
> 
> Why people get married when they have no sexual chemistry is a mystery to me. I guess most of the time they don't know any better.
> 
> If hubby learns how to get the job done before it is too late, the guilt from her past may go away, and it may not. But either way telling hubby in the current circumstance will most likely end that marriage, whether she wants it to or not.
> 
> An example from my life... Newest GF, when we first started dating, asked my what my number was. I told her she would never know that number. She is a little leery about where I have been, and I get that. She is a little different than me in that respect. She is some what repulsed by what she guesses the number is, and her guess is really low.
> 
> However, even though she was very inexperienced before we met, she is naturally a great lover. I have taught he a little, since we got together and she learns super fast. She is actually, one of the best, and maybe the best I have ever had. I tell her that all the time. (Wow, she really is great...)
> 
> Now, since the sex is good and she already feels more confident in her sexuality, do you think she is that worried about the other women that I have been with? Not really.
> 
> She is a little perturbed about ex lovers or GF, that come sniffing around than my sexual past.
> 
> Does that make sense?





Buddy400 said:


> I'm hearing a growing number of young men complaining about the having to do the aggressive sex thing all the time.
> 
> Then again, maybe it's the women thinking that this is what men want.


It's beyond me that young men would complain about that. What idiots, not deserving to have sex if so. Are you sure that's a thing? (I agree I don't know everything about everything, as my W would say)


----------



## Adelais

*Re: Some of this is true, but...*



BluesPower said:


> We could say that he is ignorant about sex, I don't know if that sounds better or not. And I stand by the fact that *no man or woman should be ignorant about sex these days. There is just so much information out there these days there is no excuse. *
> 
> I agree with this a lot. He is probably so clueless about sex that he has no idea that she is not being fulfilled. Again, why are people, especially men, like this.
> 
> Like I said above, he is a dud. How he got that way is something that we could maybe debate and possibly figure out. But that would probably take a whole other site just devoted to that question, "Why are people so clueless about sex these days when there is no excuse?".
> 
> But I will say this, now that she is married, and if she loves (questionable) her husband and want to stay married... She has to find a way to help him learn something about sex. It is for her benefit and his benefit, and above all the marriages benefit...


You must have missed her first post that explained that he saved himself for marriage for religious reasons. He wanted to learn about sex together with his virgin wife. Most likely he didn't spend his hours as a single man watching porn either because being a young (not hard hearted) Christian he would have considered that as immoral and cheating.

He is still learning about sex...from scratch, and his experienced wife (who lied about being a virgin) is not willing to even give him a hint.

Not all men (or women) want to have their first experience with sex with an older experienced person.


----------



## BluesPower

*No I did not miss it...*



Araucaria said:


> You must have missed her first post that explained that he saved himself for marriage for religious reasons. He wanted to learn about sex together with his virgin wife. Most likely he didn't spend his hours as a single man watching porn either because being a young (not hard hearted) Christian he would have considered that as immoral and cheating.
> 
> He is still learning about sex...from scratch, and his experienced wife (who lied about being a virgin) is not willing to even give him a hint.
> 
> Not all men (or women) want to have their first experience with sex with an older experienced person.


No I did not miss it at all. I get that. 

My point is that ANY MAN, experienced or not, should have the understanding that sex is about pleasing his partner. 

And by the way, the resources I am talking about are not porn at all. Who thinks you learn about actual sex from watching porn, morons I guess. 

There are all types of books and self help information. I even heard that there are instructional videos made by real couples demonstrating various things about sex. I don't think that is even porn. 

Point is, yes they want to grow together, and she needs to be more open about everything, but sorry, he has a responsibility to get the job done. Have you read "Song of Song of Solomon" lately? Not totally instructive but it kind of gives you an idea about something. 

If they don't get this worked out, whether she tells him about her past or not, this marriage will not last.


----------



## TJW

*Re: Well that is about the most horrible thing that I have read...*



sokillme said:


> What's a shame is that your first wife and you were not compatible but you internalized that as all your fault.


There is a lot of very faulty christian teaching. Some of it is grossly oversimplified. A person who has recently come to the faith, and has received this bad instruction, has no choice but to internalize marital failure as "all their fault" if they are married to the person God chose for them. Of course, I know, now, that God does not "choose" our mates. We do. However, at that time, I didn't know that. I believed what the eldership told me.

The really unfortunate shame is that sometimes, it takes longer, and requires far more contemplation, for one to reject bad teaching then espouse good, than to espouse bad teaching from none.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Araucaria said:


> I doubt he is wanting a dominant woman. He is just figuring things out without any help from her, since she has to hide her knowledge from him. She can't even be a little creative, because like you said, she is afraid *he will wonder where the idea came from*.


This does not make sense to me. This kind of really well hidden "idea" is not exactly hidden.


----------



## Adelais

*Re: No I did not miss it...*



BluesPower said:


> No I did not miss it at all. I get that.
> 
> My point is that ANY MAN, experienced or not, should have the understanding that sex is about pleasing his partner.
> 
> And by the way, the resources I am talking about are not porn at all. Who thinks you learn about actual sex from watching porn, morons I guess.
> 
> There are all types of books and self help information. I even heard that there are instructional videos made by real couples demonstrating various things about sex. I don't think that is even porn.
> 
> Point is, yes they want to grow together, and she needs to be more open about everything, but sorry, he has a responsibility to get the job done. Have you read "Song of Song of Solomon" lately? Not totally instructive but it kind of gives you an idea about something.
> 
> If they don't get this worked out, whether she tells him about her past or not, this marriage will not last.


Personally, I think that any video of people, even if they are married, demonstrating having sex is porn. IMO watching anyone else having sex, besides myself and my husband is a form of voyeurism, an activity in which we want no part.

Here is an example of a book that wouldn't be considered porn, which is written by Christians, and which OP can buy to help herself and her husband learn together about how to improve their marriage bed.


https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Sex-Guide-Sexual-Fulfillment/dp/0849944155


----------



## Real talk

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



BluesPower said:


> I think most of us think that her REAL problem is her shyness about asking what she wants from her husband. And the fact that he is a dud in bed. It is important for people to be sexually satisfied especially in marriage.


What you don't seem to understand is the reason why she's not being satisfied and in thus situation in the first place is the fact she has lied about her past from the jump.

It's very unlikely men with no sexual experienced will satisfy a woman with experience, let alone one who boned 2 dozen men. That's specifically the reason they tend to go for women without experience also. That way they can mutually look like fools initially but learn together and not be judged based off what the vagina slayers did before him. 

It's completely unfair to HIM that he willingly made the choice to save himself for someone special in the same situation as himself, only to now have to be compared to 25 men who were all more experienced. There is a reason why women with more sexual partners have higher divorce rates. This is the EXACT reason. 

So for you to keep bringing up her lack of satisfaction is irrelevant to the problem here. It's not his responsibility to learn how to please a woman who very well may not even be able to be pleased without variety in the first place.


----------



## 269370

I don’t think it’s very difficult to learn to want to **** your partner, provided you really want to **** them in the first place.
It’s almost as if men are threatened by women who had more sexual partners than them. Who cares how many partners? It’s not about the ‘skills’ it’s about the desire. And she doesn’t feel any from her husband. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oldshirt

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Real talk said:


> What you don't seem to understand is the reason why she's not being satisfied and in thus situation in the first place is the fact she has lied about her past from the jump.
> 
> It's very unlikely men with no sexual experienced will satisfy a woman with experience, let alone one who boned 2 dozen men. That's specifically the reason they tend to go for women without experience also. That way they can mutually look like fools initially but learn together and not be judged based off what the vagina slayers did before him.
> 
> It's completely unfair to HIM that he willingly made the choice to save himself for someone special in the same situation as himself, only to now have to be compared to 25 men who were all more experienced. There is a reason why women with more sexual partners have higher divorce rates. This is the EXACT reason.
> 
> So for you to keep bringing up her lack of satisfaction is irrelevant to the problem here. It's not his responsibility to learn how to please a woman who very well may not even be able to be pleased without variety in the first place.


This is kind of an assumption that a lot of people unconsciously make (and some make it consciously). 

It's part mythology, part ****-shaming, part false assumption with perhaps a few grains of truth thrown in here and there. 

You are making a few assumptions without substantive fact here. You are assuming -

- that an inexperienced man will not be able to please a more experienced woman. That is simply a generalized assumption that may not be grounded in fact. Sexual compatibility and chemistry are unique to each new couple. People hit the 'reset' button every time they are with someone new. A person's sexual satisfaction has a lot more to do with attraction, chemistry, compatibility and emotional connection/chemistry etc than it does actual physical skills. 

- that experienced men will always be "better" than a lesser experienced man. This is simply not always true. There are lots of men who pick up lots of damaged, desperate, drunk chicks that have no real lovemaking or technical skills at all. 

- that an experienced woman will not able to be pleased by a lesser experienced man. Again, that is simply an unsubstantiated assumption. Just because a woman has screwed lots of men, does not mean that either these men were great lovers or that she has a higher bar of performance requirements than a lesser experienced woman. 

- that a lesser experienced man can not learn to please one woman without first banging a number of other women. If a man is willing to and enthusiastic to please HIS woman, there is no reason to believe that he is not capable of taking care of business even if he doesn't hook up with any other women. 

As I stated in a post a page or so back, even if the OP was virginal when they got together, she would still be frustrated and dissatisfied with her sexlife with her H because he is basically a bump on a log in bed and is not trying to rise up to the occasion and please her. 

Now she does bear some responsibility for that because she has not communicated her needs to him at all and is resistant in ever doing so. But his lack of initiative and lack of trying and lack of enthusiasm and motivation in bed has nothing to do with her prior experience level.


----------



## TJW

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



oldshirt said:


> - that an inexperienced man will not be able to please a more experienced woman. That is simply a generalized assumption that may not be grounded in fact.
> 
> his lack of initiative and lack of trying and lack of enthusiasm and motivation in bed has nothing to do with her prior experience level.


I agree that as a generalized assumption, it may not be factual. However, facts which are in evidence on this thread indicate that this inexperienced man is operating upon the clear perspective that he cannot please her.... and his lack of motivation is clearly based upon the disparity of experience level between he and his wife, because her dissatisfaction is clearly based upon that disparity.


----------



## oldshirt

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



TJW said:


> I agree that as a generalized assumption, it may not be factual. However, facts which are in evidence on this thread indicate that this inexperienced man is operating upon the clear perspective that he cannot please her.... and his lack of motivation is clearly based upon the disparity of experience level between he and his wife, because her dissatisfaction is clearly based upon that disparity.


I think that is taking to big of a leap. 

That would presume that if she had not had a previous experience that she would be good with their sex life and there is nothing to indicate that. 

If he is a bump on a log and not doing anything to please her, then why would she be OK with that if she had not had prior experience?

Besides, he doesn't know about her past so we can not say that his lack of motivation is based on their disparity of experience level. 

Her previous experience does not make him bad in bed. His lack of chemistry, initiative, motivation and enthusiasm does. 

That would be true whether she was a virgin bride or a porn star.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



oldshirt said:


> I think that is taking to big of a leap.
> 
> That would presume that if she had not had a previous experience that she would be good with their sex life and there is nothing to indicate that.
> 
> If he is a bump on a log and not doing anything to please her, then why would she be OK with that if she had not had prior experience?
> 
> Besides, he doesn't know about her past so we can not say that his lack of motivation is based on their disparity of experience level.
> 
> Her previous experience does not make him bad in bed. His lack of chemistry, initiative, motivation and enthusiasm does.
> 
> That would be true whether she was a virgin bride or a porn star.


Everything about this is speculation except for one thing as long as she has to cover her lie she can't even talk about it honestly. So it's never going to get better.


----------



## oldshirt

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



sokillme said:


> Everything about this is speculation except for one thing as long as she has to cover her lie she can't even talk about it honestly. So it's never going to get better.


I agree that they have serious communication and relationship issues and that her lack of communication have contributed immensely to this issue. 

My point is that it is too large of a leap to say that his lack of sexual skill and prowess is due to her previous history. 

A woman's previous history does not make a man a poor lover any more than her lack of experience would make him a good lover.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



oldshirt said:


> I agree that they have serious communication and relationship issues and that her lack of communication have contributed immensely to this issue.
> 
> My point is that it is too large of a leap to say that his lack of sexual skill and prowess is due to her previous history.
> 
> A woman's previous history does not make a man a poor lover any more than her lack of experience would make him a good lover.


True but if you are a poor lover lack of feedback ain't going to make you a good one. And it's also unfair to say that a poor lover can't get better with practice. I still say he can tell she doesn't like this part of their life and is defeated by that. Remember in his mind he is her one and only so she just doesn't like sex, he has no idea he was competing with a bunch of other guys.


----------



## Diana7

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



Real talk said:


> What you don't seem to understand is the reason why she's not being satisfied and in thus situation in the first place is the fact she has lied about her past from the jump.
> 
> It's very unlikely men with no sexual experienced will satisfy a woman with experience, let alone one who boned 2 dozen men. That's specifically the reason they tend to go for women without experience also. That way they can mutually look like fools initially but learn together and not be judged based off what the vagina slayers did before him.
> 
> It's completely unfair to HIM that he willingly made the choice to save himself for someone special in the same situation as himself, only to now have to be compared to 25 men who were all more experienced. There is a reason why women with more sexual partners have higher divorce rates. This is the EXACT reason.
> 
> So for you to keep bringing up her lack of satisfaction is irrelevant to the problem here. It's not his responsibility to learn how to please a woman who very well may not even be able to be pleased without variety in the first place.


Absolutely. A marriage that is based on lies and deception will always be very rocky. 
She needs to tell him asap and let him decide what he wants to do. 

Comparing our spouse with others in any area will always lead to trouble. Its like building a house on unstable or shallow foundations. Cracks will appear, things will go wrong and the house will crumble. When one has had many sexual partners and one hadn't had any, it will cause problems, especially if they have lied about it. That's why its important that we marry someone with the same standards as us. 

Her issues are not to do with not being satisfied, but because she refuses to do the right thing and be honest. Once she has done that she will feel a load lift off her and whatever happens she will know she has done what is right. 

Even if he ends the marriage, she will have been honest. 

BTW having had many sexual partners doesn't make anyone a good lover. Often people who do that are very selfish lovers because they care nothing for their multiple partners, only for themselves.


----------



## BluesPower

Wow, I guess my comments started something... 

I think that the original poster is gone BTW, because she has not been back for a while.

I get that every one sees this different so I want to try and break it down to the main questions from my point of view.

1) Is it wrong for her to present herself as a virgin when she was far from that? 
2) Is her lack of satisfaction due to her experience and lying or because of his poor performance?
3) Is her inability to express her sexual desires due to her embarrassment about her experience?
4) Are her problems due to her lying or the fact the her H is a poor lover? 

So 1) I think that we can probably agree that it was wrong for her to lie about her past and present herself as a virgin. That is wrong and was an bad decision. 

Now we could all debate how, and how much, and even if she should tell. 

My feelings about this are... if she tells I expect the marriage to end. I believe that guys that are inexperienced cannot handle this information. I also feel that deep down he knows that he is not getting the job done in the bedroom, unless he is totally clueless. 

2) I believe that her dissatisfaction is due to his poor performance. I further think that even if she was a virgin, she would be dissatisfied. The real question is... Is she more dissatisfied because she understand what good sex is? 

That could very well be true, but at a base level dissatisfaction is just that. 

3) I believe that she is afraid to tell him what she wants, or that she is dissatisfied because of her past. Now she could just be shy in general and not comfortable talking about sex at all. But I believe that he initial lie makes it more difficult to talk about her sexual needs. 

4) Here, I think her sexual dissatisfaction is probably due to both issues. She is afraid to express her needs because she lied, but for me it is mostly due to her H's poor performance. 

The only examples I have that apply to this type of thread is my current, and I think last BTW, GF. 

She did not have a ton of experience before we met. But she had quite a bit of sex. It is just that most of it was bad. I think that maybe one husband was pretty good in bed, but her was a loser and the frequency was not enough for her, by like a mile. 

She had one FB, but her was not around much so again the frequency was not enough. And it is cute that she thinks she was naughty to have a FB, but she did like the sex. And no, I did not elaborate on my collection of FB's.

Now in our relationship, I think that my sexual openness and experience allowed her to be comfortable talking about sex in general. She raves about how comfortable she is discussing sex with me. I am glad she feels that way. 

So we have a great sex life, and even by my standards, it is really the best one I have even had. And it is not the individual acts themselves that make it great. As it turns out, she is a naturally gifted lover, and I find it sad that she did not really get real enjoyment out of sex before she met me, she is 60, BTW. 

And we were honest about our pasts, with the following caveat, I did not give her my number. I have not given that to anyone, in fact I am not 100% sure what that number is. But I was honest that I would not give it too her and she accepted that. 

Now, because of her upbringing, she is a little repulsed about how high she thinks my number is. Which hurts a little but it is understandable, because I understand where she comes from and how she was brought up. But there is a certain amount of **** shamming on her part towards me. Initially, when we went out or I was playing at a club, she would ask which women I had slept with. So I would look around the room and give her the answer. Thank goodness I did most of my "work" in different places so a lot of the time I could honestly say, "None Dear". Unfortunately that was not the case every time, and it was a little uncomfortable. 

So what does this have to do with anything? What makes our sex life so great? Is it our honesty and openness about sex, or our openness about our past? Is it he natural ability as a lover? Is it my experience? Is it our sexual chemistry? Is it simply the astounding love that we have for each other. 

I really don't know, maybe a combination of all of it. 

So I believe OP's problem is sexual dissatisfaction primarily due to her husbands poor sexual performance, and his lack of 
experience and his lack of desire (or understanding how) to please her. 

But at the same time, she has a responsibility to tell him what she wants and needs to be satisfied, and her lying may contribute to her inability to be honest and open about that? 

What does everyone think? Did I leave anything important out?


----------



## Real talk

*Re: SKM, brother you understand that...*



oldshirt said:


> It's part mythology, part ****-shaming, part false assumption with perhaps a few grains of truth thrown in here and there.


It's not an assumption that he had no intention to marry a woman who not only wasn't a virgin, but was quite promiscuous.

I haven't really all your posts but you seem to lay the responsibility at his feet for sexual incompatability even though he was the one who was transparent from the beginning.

The reason there are issues with her expressing her needs is because what she wants are things that she has picked up from her sexual exploits with dozens partners. That's what he wanted to avoid and now you feel he should be the one to overcome that. It's not his responsibility. Its all on her to woman up and spill, or find joy in what he can provide sexually. 

Your "assuming" his inadequacy is causing her lack of pleasure.


----------



## ConanHub

oldtruck said:


> How much good does a man have to do to undo the bad he did?
> Can a WW ever undo the sex she had with her OM?


You can't undo bad. You can just choose to start doing better and become a better person.

The WW thing is a whole other animal but she can choose to become a better person and maybe her betrayed H will find the new "her" acceptable, if not, she can be a better person for her next relationship.

I actually didn't read that OP cheated though so these thoughts probably aren't relevant to this thread.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> True but if you are a poor lover lack of feedback ain't going to make you a good one. And it's also unfair to say that a poor lover can't get better with practice. I still say he can tell she doesn't like this part of their life and is defeated by that. Remember in his mind he is her one and only so she just doesn't like sex, he has no idea he was competing with a bunch of other guys.



But the last part is not true though. She does like sex and doesn’t deny him sex. If anything she wants more sex with him and more importantly, she wants him to want more sex. 
What do other guys have anything to do with that? Her husband is not ‘competing’ with anybody. Nobody else is sleeping with her at the same time. Again: skill has nothing to do with desire. Which is either there or it isn’t. She never said that she thought he was a terribly unskillful lover. She said she doesn’t understand why he doesn’t desire her that much whereas other guys did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

*Re: No I did not miss it...*



Araucaria said:


> Personally, I think that any video of people, even if they are married, demonstrating having sex is porn. IMO watching anyone else having sex, besides myself and my husband is a form of voyeurism, an activity in which we want no part.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an example of a book that wouldn't be considered porn, which is written by Christians, and which OP can buy to help herself and her husband learn together about how to improve their marriage bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Sex-Guide-Sexual-Fulfillment/dp/0849944155




I really don’t get what the difference is between reading words about sex and imagining it in your head or watching somebody have sex without having to imagine it. Porn is porn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais

*Re: No I did not miss it...*



inmyprime said:


> I really don’t get what the difference is between reading words about sex and imagining it in your head or watching somebody have sex without having to imagine it. Porn is porn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL! If you saw the drawings you wouldn't think they are exciting. I think they kept them simple and not even good drawings on purpose. The authors spend a lot of time talking about God's design for sex, spiritually, physically, emotionally. It is written as a technical manual that you read and then do with your spouse. We didn't find the writing or pictures arousing, but instructional.


----------



## 269370

*Re: No I did not miss it...*



Araucaria said:


> LOL! If you saw the drawings you wouldn't think they are exciting. I think they kept them simple and not even good drawings on purpose. The authors spend a lot of time talking about God's design for sex, spiritually, physically, emotionally. It is written as a technical manual that you read and then do with your spouse. We didn't find the writing or pictures arousing, but instructional.



I don’t know, in my head they sound arousing enough so that I had to order this piece of literature for the enlargement of my tantric library . 
I just wasn’t sure from the description how god fits into the picture/drawings which may complicate things as to whether I should perhaps not better file it under ‘religious scripture’ instead.🤷🏼*♂🧐




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> What do other guys have anything to do with that?


The other guys keep her from being open and honest, and make her fell guilty. They are in the bedroom with them every time they do it.


----------



## personofinterest

OP, I would assume that you are not in possession of a flux capacitor  That means you cannot turn back time.

Yes, you lied. You told a man who was clear in what he wanted that you WERE that woman. And, in a sense, you have kept the lie going all these years. It eats at you because you have a conscience. That is a GOOD thing.

If you take away all the conjecture about what you were and what you are now and all the rest, it is simple. Simple is not the same as easy.

I would say you are feeling conviction about continuing this lie. And that you feel shame. Because you have such a strong reaction when those around you go on their "anti-wh** rants." And because of how you describe your motivation for your past actions.

Telling your husband the truth has to be a terrifying prospect. I know it is. BUT, I will give you a different angle as to why it is important.

You also need to know who you married.

I have read variations of the phrase "he needs to know what kind of woman he is married to" on quite a few internet discussion places. And there is definite validity to that.

But you need to know too. You need to know if your husband is a man who will make his choices based on a very painful lie you told years ago or based on the kind of partner/wife you have been. If you had been married 15 years, this would be both harder and easier. Harder because the lie would be so much bigger and longer. Easier because possibly he would care more about the faithful 15 years than the past.

However, you need to know. You both need the truth of your lives.

I say pray fervently, seek really good counseling, and then just tell him. Tell him humbly and openly. Accept that he will be very hurt.

A year from now you will know if it is a deal-breaker, if he can get past it and the tow of you can have a fulfilling marriage, or if you need to leave because it becomes a whipping post.

The truth is best in this case, I believe.


----------



## TJW

personofinterest said:


> You need to know if your husband is a man who will make his choices based on a very painful lie you told years ago or based on the kind of partner/wife you have been.


There is a third basis. Her husband, and all of us who call upon the Lord Jesus Christ, are painfully aware of the immensity and wicked nature of our sins, for which God, in His love and His mercy, has forgiven us.

We also recognize that the sins of others are no greater than ours.

We also recognize that we have done nothing which in any way merits the forgiveness we have received.

Dr. House said "...everybody lies...". Interesting, how even Dr. House, who doubts and decries the very existence of God, still espouses a great theme of the bible as one of his chief truths.

I think the OP's husband will be fully in touch with this third basis, and that, through time, he will appropriate it completely.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


He would never have dated or married you if he knew. You know this don’t you. 

He was looking for a Christian girl with the same morals as him and he ended up with you. You lied to him and deceived him. 

I hope he finds out.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> Thanks Rose. You make a lot of sense. Yeah already i feel like i've been put in my place and basically called a wh*re and a sl.. Well I deserve it and i probably need this dose of reality.


Your just a liar who married her husband under false pretenses.


----------



## ABHale

RoseAglow said:


> Let me refer again to the splinter and the eye.
> 
> She heard those posters loud and clear.


So you think it’s ok that she lied about it when they talked. So him wanting to marry someone with the same values and morals as himself means nothing. Just as long as little miss I rebelled and slept with who knows how many married who she wanted everything is fine. I guess her husband should be happy that she is so experienced in the sack.


----------



## ABHale

RoseAglow said:


> @sokillme, I agree that everything would have been better if she had been honest from the start.
> 
> I don't have any real advice on whether she should or shouldn't tell her H. In my own marriage, I would have to be honest. But, I am not particularly religious and my H doesn't care about how many men I slept with in the past. I have never felt horribly judged by my H about who I am.
> 
> What I have advised her is to think carefully, because her H is probably going to flip the **** right out when and if she tells him.


He will flip the hell out because she lied to him. I know good Christian men who have married girls that have a past. They were honest with them when they met. They had turned their lives around and got saved. They didn’t lie to their now husbands.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> For what it's worth, I do believe in a good Christian life. I do believe in saving yourself until marriage. My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right. I wanted to ruin myself because i hated who i was. So i let guys ruin me over and over. The more i did it the more disgusting i felt about myself. And part of me blamed religion for everything so I wanted to ruin that too.
> 
> Not looking for any sympathy.


There is a deference between religion and being a Christian. I really hope you find this out.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.
> 
> I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.
> 
> Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.
> 
> Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


I sounds like you are hung up on it as well. You are the one that came here because you have a problem with the fact that you rebelled and..........

You could have just stated that I lied about my past. Should I tell my husband? He asked specifically about what I lied about. 

You say you are religious. So how does the Bible refer to women like you. Just like the woman that was going to be stoned in the street for adultery, Jesus said let he with no sin cast the first stone. No one threw a stone and Jesus said go and sin no more. There is forgiveness for sins but you need to confess your sins first. 

Now let’s look at the marriage apart form everything else. You lied because you know your husband was looking for someone that wasn’t you. That is what I have a problem with. 

You took the chance for him to be true Christian and still be your friend despite your past. Because we all have a past. We are all sinners. 

The problem your husband is going to have is your lying to him your entire time with him.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> My flaws caused me to follow another path. I could not live up to what I knew was right.


That is exactly why the Lord Jesus Christ came to earth, lived as a man, and died as a man. Because ALL of our flaws caused ALL of us to follow another path..... and, NONE of us can live up to what we know is right. That is why we need a Saviour. We need Him for our past. We need Him for our present, and we need Him for our future.

If there is a good marriage, God made it. If there is a bad marriage, God is trying and is able to make it good. It's all His idea.... 

No matter how far you have strayed..... God stands ready, at this very moment, to welcome you back.

Without this very fact, ALL of us would be dead in our sins and without hope that we would ever be able to change ourselves.

I believe, that in the coming time, I will return to read on this board, and I will read that everything is good for you and your husband, and I'll also read that it was God who made it so. I will not be surprised, because I have watched God do this so many times, in my own life, and the lives of others.


----------



## Yeswecan

JustTheWife said:


> I had to go away from this thread for a couple of days because it was not always easy to read and to think about. I went back to good wife and didn't think about my lies and all those disgusting things that haunt me now.
> 
> I read how you are thinking about how your sex secrets could ruin your life if they were every uncovered. Maybe you feel like you are the same employee or friend or whatever regardless of whether they found out. One day everyone thinks you're such a good guy, a good employee, people are happy for you to be around their wives and kids. Then they find out you do swinging and have group sex or whatever you do. You're the same guy as you were before but now they all think totally different about you when they know your secret. They might think you're a pervert and not want to be around you.
> 
> Look at what happened to me on this thread. I was called a wh*** and you told me 3 times that I "blew dudes in cars". I am thick skinned and I forgive you for those comments but I think it makes an important point about why i want to keep my secret and why it's probably a good idea to keep it. Many men are like you so I don't single you out. I was talking about my marriage my lies and you're obsessed with me "blowing dudes in cars". It was liek that WAS your whole point. I already admitted that I was a sl-- so I guess you need to go further to remind me how disgusting I am. I think everyone already knew what being a sl-- or promiscious means. So the only reason for graphic descriptions is to shame me more. But i forgive you for this.
> 
> Did you ever think that one of the reasons why women like me lie about our pasts is because of that kind of thinking. I'm happy you said it if you were thinking it. At least you were honest. You could have sugar coated it. Do you think that I want my husband to be thinking about his wife blowing dudes in cars and all of the other nasty stuff that guys did to me. You seemed to be stuck on images of me blowing dudes in cars and what if he was too? Just like you don't want people thinking of you differently and all of the sudden you become a swinger in their minds and they think of you in orgies or whatever or some kind of pervert. I don't want to be a wh--- to my husband. I don't want to ruin his life by making him decide if he wants to leave me or be haunted by all of those things that I did and all of those other guys. If he decided to stay, I would go from being his little sweetheart to being a nasty wh--- who blew dudes in cars, spread my legs or whatever kinds of things will haunt him forever. Always a new thought to ruin his day.
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with me lying but does that make any sense at least? It's funny because I would say the same thing as you did - if you knew me in real life, you would have NO IDEA that i did any of those things. Sometimes when our church friends aer over or we're in the church meetings my mind starts to wander and I think about my secret and what people would think if they knew who i really was.


As far as I'm concerned...everyone has a secret or perpetrated a lie. The moral high ground, how many have fallen down it's sides? Some things are best left unsaid.


----------



## SunCMars

RoseAglow said:


> So just to be clear- it was wrong for her to lie. That is a problem. The other part of the problem is that her H is the kind of man who has put a HUGE value on having a virginal wife. The OP feels he will divorce her if she tells him the truth. If he were less rigid, she probably would have told him ages ago. So there are two sides to this. Please note I am NOT saying her H is wrong to have this value or to care, I am simply saying that he DOES care and it will very likely cause huge problems if she tells him.



And this is why I say tell the truth, but not the whole truth.
So, help you God...

Truth is a knife.

It can be a butter knife, useful for blather, slathering on the Oleo and not cut deep. Filling another soul with happy calories.
It can be a razor knife and cut to the bone. For no good reason. Doing harm, not a shred worthy of good.


They say that Truth shall set you free.

In relationships, Truth can, indeed, set you free. 
Can set you on your butt, naked and alone.

Truth be told, you now free, you now forlorn.
A high price paid for oblivion, you scratched off the list.



The Host- from afar. Far from full-scale honesty.


----------



## personofinterest

ABHale said:


> So you think it’s ok that she lied about it when they talked. So him wanting to marry someone with the same values and morals as himself means nothing. Just as long as little miss I rebelled and slept with who knows how many married who she wanted everything is fine. I guess her husband should be happy that she is so experienced in the sack.


I'm trying to find where anyone said it was okay....I can't seem to find those posts....


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> I'm trying to find where anyone said it was okay....I can't seem to find those posts....


I have a tendency to read between the lines at times. 

Also to read into what is really being said.

There is no defending what JTW has done. She met a young man and absolutely lied to him during there talks. Made him believe she was someone she wasn’t with her lies. Then married him knowing full well he probably wouldn’t have if he knew the truth. 

What JTW has done in her past is her story to tell or not. I will agree to this completely until it ruins another person’s life. I would have no problem at all with JTW if she was honest with her husband when she saw they were getting close and started having feelings for one another. 

The deceiving him is the only thing that I have any problem with. 

So for someone to say her past wasn’t any of his business is wrong.


----------



## ABHale

RoseAglow if I misread what you were saying I do apologize for my response.


----------



## RoseAglow

@ABHale, I do think you misread my post. I appreciate your post saying that you might have misread it. My comment on removing the plank was not in reference to the OP, it was in reference to posts on the thread that I thought were extremely disrespectful to the OP, basically calling her slurs. I don't think it was right for her to lie and no matter what the OP chooses to do, that lie is going to cause major problems. 

(Thanks @SunCMars for pulling that older post, which pretty much is a sum of my thoughts on this situation.)


----------



## Diana7

ABHale said:


> I have a tendency to read between the lines at times.
> 
> Also to read into what is really being said.
> 
> There is no defending what JTW has done. She met a young man and absolutely lied to him during there talks. Made him believe she was someone she wasn’t with her lies. Then married him knowing full well he probably wouldn’t have if he knew the truth.
> 
> What JTW has done in her past is her story to tell or not. I will agree to this completely until it ruins another person’s life. I would have no problem at all with JTW if she was honest with her husband when she saw they were getting close and started having feelings for one another.
> 
> The deceiving him is the only thing that I have any problem with.
> 
> So for someone to say her past wasn’t any of his business is wrong.


I agree. Its very important we are completely open and truthful when we marry someone. In a sense it doesn't matter what the lie is about, whether its previous sexual partners, or that you were married before, or that you were made bankrupt or whatever, marrying with lies and deception is just plain wrong. 

I hope that the OP's conscience will mean she is honest and open, I cant see how this marriage can ever thrive with dark secrets. One day they will come out one way or another, far better for her to tell him now.


----------



## SunCMars

Yeswecan said:


> As far as I'm concerned...everyone has a secret or perpetrated a lie. The moral high ground, how many have fallen down it's sides? Some things are best left unsaid.



I see a learning lesson HERE. A rare one for Hard Head Central, that woud be TAM, uh, huh!

Your words finally echo mine, HERE. Here and often.
............................................................................................................

@Yeswecan......

I cannot.

I cannot say how many times YOU have come to this conclusion.

That some things are best unsaid.

Can you give us a figure, one in the ballpark? How many times you have come to this conclusion?

Rarely.

Most on TAM, nearly ALL on TAM push for total honesty.

All, or most. All of the time, spill the beans.

But, not me, rarely me.

Am I smarter than thou, than thee?

No, I have a better grasp of things, things resembling reality.
......................................................................................

Some will say, will think:

I do these things, say these things only when I am clear minded, not in a cloud.

I would assume, conclude, that this consensus of me, my thinking, is a rare thing on an odd day.

Methinks, too much. Yeppir, I do.

Just Sayin'
......................................................................................

From far and away, in another world, in another dimension...

The Host- the originator of the Avatar = SunCMars, now a prisoner of one big boobed, red headed, egotist, blood thirsty Red Queen.
Of my creation. Trapped by my own insane making.


----------



## Diana7

Yeswecan said:


> As far as I'm concerned...everyone has a secret or perpetrated a lie. The moral high ground, how many have fallen down it's sides? Some things are best left unsaid.


Many married couples are completely open with each other. No, not everyone has secrets or perpetrates lies, especially to their husband or wife. In marriage there should be no hidden secrets.


----------



## Yeswecan

Diana7 said:


> I agree. Its very important we are completely open and truthful when we marry someone. In a sense it doesn't matter what the lie is about, whether its previous sexual partners, or that you were married before, or that you were made bankrupt or whatever, marrying with lies and deception is just plain wrong.
> 
> I hope that the OP's conscience will mean she is honest and open, I cant see how this marriage can ever thrive with dark secrets. One day they will come out one way or another, far better for her to tell him now.





SunCMars said:


> I see a learning lesson HERE. A rare one for Hard Head Central, that woud be TAM, uh, huh!
> 
> Your words finally echo mine, HERE. Here and often.
> ............................................................................................................
> 
> @Yeswecan......
> 
> I cannot.
> 
> I cannot say how many times YOU have come to this conclusion.
> 
> That some things are best unsaid.
> 
> Can you give us a figure, one in the ballpark? How many times you have come to this conclusion?
> 
> Rarely.
> 
> Most on TAM, nearly ALL on TAM push for total honesty.
> 
> All, or most. All of the time, spill the beans.
> 
> But, not me, rarely me.
> 
> Am I smarter than thou, than thee?
> 
> No, I have a better grasp of things, things resembling reality.
> ......................................................................................
> 
> Some will say, will think:
> 
> I do these things, say these things only when I am clear minded, not in a cloud.
> 
> I would assume, conclude, that this consensus of me, my thinking, is a rare thing on an odd day.
> 
> Methinks, too much. Yeppir, I do.
> 
> Just Sayin'
> ......................................................................................
> 
> From far and away, in another world, in another dimension...
> 
> The Host- the originator of the Avatar = SunCMars, now a prisoner of one big boobed, red headed, egotist, blood thirsty Red Queen.
> Of my creation. Trapped by my own insane making.





Diana7 said:


> Many married couples are completely open with each other. No, not everyone has secrets or perpetrates lies, especially to their husband or wife. In marriage there should be no hidden secrets.


I figured I would get called out on this. There are many who claim once told of such things that they wish they never heard it and blissfulness of life continued on. Op inquired on a course of action. These are my thoughts on this particular situation. Look at who the OP is now. 

Diana, everyone has a secret or lied at one time or another. There is only one that I know of that has never lied or kept a secret. The secret could be stealing the old mans beer and lied when asked. Things of this nature. Yes, everyone has a secret or lied. Secrets and lies don't always pertain to relationships past or present.

You tell me, the blissful life the OP H is enjoying should be crushed for what reason?


----------



## Diana7

Yeswecan said:


> I figured I would get called out on this. There are many who claim once told of such things that they wish they never heard it and blissfulness of life continued on. Op inquired on a course of action. These are my thoughts on this particular situation. Look at who the OP is now.
> 
> Diana, everyone has a secret or lied at one time or another. There is only one that I know of that has never lied or kept a secret. The secret could be stealing the old mans beer and lied when asked. Things of this nature. Yes, everyone has a secret or lied. Secrets and lies don't always pertain to relationships past or present.
> 
> You tell me, the blissful life the OP H is enjoying should be crushed for what reason?


What blissful life? She is crushed with guilt and as far as I can see and it is badly affecting their marriage. It will carry on badly affecting it and will probably get worse. Its never for the best that one spouse is being lied to and deceived. 

I would hate to be lied to, honesty is always the best policy. No not everyone has a secret, you are wrong. I would never hide anything like this from a spouse and nor would many other married people.


----------



## Yeswecan

Diana7 said:


> What blissful life? She is crushed with guilt and as far as I can see and it is badly affecting their marriage. It will carry on badly affecting it and will probably get worse. Its never for the best that one spouse is being lied to and deceived.
> 
> I would hate to be lied to, honesty is always the best policy. No not everyone has a secret, you are wrong. I would never hide anything like this from a spouse and nor would many other married people.


I do not get from the OP posts the H is not having a blissful life. The OP is wrought with indecision and having a tough time with it. Is it affecting the marriage? I'm not so certain. OP is certainly affected. Will this affect the marriage is left untold? That depends on how the OP decides to process the do and don't of telling. 

Everyone hates to be lied too. OP was in many relationships before marriage from my understanding. To what gravity of lies does one tell or withhold concerning what has occurred before marriage? I can not say. 

I guess in the end, for OP to be at peace with or without her H, is to tell the true story. OP will have to deal with the fallout.

I think the OP will, in good conscience, tell her H.


----------



## personofinterest

I think she will tell him as well. We forget that while it is easy for those of us who don't live in the situation to say "Do it now....why haven't you done it yet???" People have their own timetable when it comes to making the tough choices.

I think she SHOULD tell for 3 reasons:

1. For honesty's sake - aka it is right
2. For her own peace
3. To KNOW what is most important to her husband

Think of this: what if things stay the way they are, and one day (God forbid) their 17 year old daughter loses her virginity or ends up pregnant? I daresay a man who would divorce a wife because she lied about her past would not...um....treat a "stained" daughter very well. These are things she needs to know. And if he really cannot stay with her once he knows the magnitude of the lie, they both need to know.


----------



## TJW

Yeswecan said:


> Is it affecting the marriage? I'm not so certain. OP is certainly affected. Will this affect the marriage is left untold? That depends on how the OP decides to process the do and don't of telling.


Whenever one partner is affected, in a marriage, the other partner is also affected. I cannot imagine that this man does not perceive his wife's displeasure with their sex life, that he is somehow obliviously going his merry way. His reluctance to provide anything beyond "vanilla" is an indicator that he feels inadequate and unable to please his wife. This is a very destructive set of feelings which will severely cripple the man's approach to his marriage bed. 

Yes, if left untold, the marriage will not survive. The "secrets" will come out, and unfortunately, most of them will come out in a very wrong way, which will act to destroy the marriage.

The best way for these secrets to become known is being "told", because the "do and don't of telling" can then be considered with thought and sensitivity. The likely best way to unfold this is to do so under the guidance of a professional counselor, most preferably one who is a sex specialist.


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> What blissful life? She is crushed with guilt and as far as I can see and it is badly affecting their marriage. It will carry on badly affecting it and will probably get worse. Its never for the best that one spouse is being lied to and deceived.
> 
> I would hate to be lied to, *honesty is always the best policy. No not everyone has a secret, you are wrong. I would never hide anything* like this from a spouse and nor would many other married people.


OK, your erstwhile pal [The Host] is calling you on this, on the bolded words above.

Why are you here? 
Why are you here on TAM?
What motivates you to read here, to drink of these sordid waters, here?

Please do not tap dance.
I can read feet, I can read Thee.



TRQ-


----------



## TJW

personofinterest said:


> I daresay a man who would divorce a wife because she lied about her past would not...um....treat a "stained" daughter very well. These are things she needs to know. And if he really cannot stay with her once he knows the magnitude of the lie, they both need to know.


From what is known about the OP's husband, I do not think that forgiveness of the lie, or of her past itself, is going to be any kind of permanent issue. 

As a sincere christian, this man is completely aware of his Lord's forgiveness given to him. He will strive to be like his Lord in this sense, and will not likely divorce or leave his wife. Neither would he treat a "stained" daughter in any way other than to give her unconditional love and acceptance, as his Lord has done for him.

My fear is that her husband is going to feel that it is futile for him to even try to please her, because of her full experience and his lack of it. The OP will have to very carefully present her requests for activities in the form of being something which would please her, if done, and never in a "frame" of comparison to the former men, their abilities, their anatomy, or their attractiveness.

His level of self-loathing is likely to radically increase if "details" of these former relationships are told.

My second fear is that the H will "ask" for these details, before he has digested that it is better for him to not know. That will create a problem which the OP cannot avoid. She will have no choice but to be truthful in her answer. And, this truth may not "set him free", but may place him in bondage.


----------



## hinterdir

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


Is it harmless? It is evil. It is lying. Now, if your guy doesn't really care if you had a classy past with just serious, faithful boyfriends or whether you were a clubber with endless casual sex and threesomes than it probably doesn't matter. If you are with someone who does care and would have not dated you or married you and you took that choice away from them by lying than that makes you awful and this entire marriage is based on your lie. You tricked him into marrying you. You know him, what is his moral code on how special and intimate sex is and should be? Did he party it up and **** it up also in his youth or is he more of the save sex for his wife king of guy who was looking for a woman who shared his values? You should know if this would upset him. Either way you lied and took away his right to be able to honestly choose if you were marriage material or not by lying to him.


----------



## hinterdir

TJW said:


> From what is known about the OP's husband, I do not think that forgiveness of the lie, or of her past itself, is going to be any kind of permanent issue.
> 
> As a sincere christian, this man is completely aware of his Lord's forgiveness given to him. He will strive to be like his Lord in this sense, and will not likely divorce or leave his wife. Neither would he treat a "stained" daughter in any way other than to give her unconditional love and acceptance, as his Lord has done for him.
> 
> My fear is that her husband is going to feel that it is futile for him to even try to please her, because of her full experience and his lack of it. The OP will have to very carefully present her requests for activities in the form of being something which would please her, if done, and never in a "frame" of comparison to the former men, their abilities, their anatomy, or their attractiveness.
> 
> His level of self-loathing is likely to radically increase if "details" of these former relationships are told.
> 
> My second fear is that the H will "ask" for these details, before he has digested that it is better for him to not know. That will create a problem which the OP cannot avoid. She will have no choice but to be truthful in her answer. And, this truth may not "set him free", but may place him in bondage.


Forgiveness? That's between her and God. He has EVERY RIGHT to acknowledge he was lied to and get out of this marriage. IF he would not have married her if he knew this BEFORE the I DO's than I do not expect him to have to stay in this union now since it was under false pretenses. Forgiveness is a heart issue, not holding on to bitterness and hate but letting those go. He can still forgive her in his heart BUT LEAVE THE MARRIAGE. It depends on if this wouldn't have mattered to him if she had told him before marriage. If he would have still married her than it shouldn't be too bad BUT if he would have broken up and not married her because he wanted a different kind of wife than I'd totally support him leaving her because she tricked him into this marriage.


----------



## personofinterest

hinterdir said:


> Forgiveness? That's between her and God. He has EVERY RIGHT to acknowledge he was lied to and get out of this marriage. IF he would not have married her if he knew this BEFORE the I DO's than I do not expect him to have to stay in this union now since it was under false pretenses. Forgiveness is a heart issue, not holding on to bitterness and hate but letting those go. He can still forgive her in his heart BUT LEAVE THE MARRIAGE. It depends on if this wouldn't have mattered to him if she had told him before marriage. If he would have still married her than it shouldn't be too bad BUT if he would have broken up and not married her because he wanted a different kind of wife than I'd totally support him leaving her because she tricked him into this marriage.


It would be interesting to hear from the OP's husband. If he were here, I would want to hear his view....


----------



## hinterdir

LOL!!! 
I read through 46 pages of this and she never even told him after months.
Then, here's the kicker, this poor sap has only been having sex for about 1 year and his hard core, been around the block wife thinks he's a bad lover after getting it from all the guys who've probably been watching porn all their lives and he doesn't give it to her like they did and she WON'T EVEN SUGGEST ANYTHING NEW IN BED. She just keeps having bad sex and wonder why her inexperienced guy doesn't do it like the porn lovers and won't even take any initiative. 

I hope if/when this guy finds out he divorces you and goes and finds an honest woman (you won't even be honest in the bedroom and suggest doing it more, be more assertive, I like it when you do this hubby, do more of that, what if you did this to me, that might be fun.....) or he just evens the score and goes out and has 3 or 4 affairs so he won't be so inexperienced then. Maybe she'll enjoy the sex more is she's his 7th or 8th lover instead of his ONLY lover.


----------



## personofinterest

hinterdir said:


> LOL!!!
> I read through 46 pages of this and she never even told him after months.
> Then, here's the kicker, this poor sap has only been having sex for about 1 year and his hard core, been around the block wife thinks he's a bad lover after getting it from all the guys who've probably been watching porn all their lives and he doesn't give it to her like they did and she WON'T EVEN SUGGEST ANYTHING NEW IN BED. She just keeps having bad sex and wonder why her inexperienced guy doesn't do it like the porn lovers and won't even take any initiative.
> 
> I hope if/when this guy finds out he divorces you and goes and finds an honest woman (you won't even be honest in the bedroom and suggest doing it more, be more assertive, I like it when you do this hubby, do more of that, what if you did this to me, that might be fun.....) or he just evens the score and goes out and has 3 or 4 affairs so he won't be so inexperienced then. Maybe she'll enjoy the sex more is she's his 7th or 8th lover instead of his ONLY lover.


If her husband were to join here, I wonder if he would feel the same way.

I could see her professing Christian husband being extremely hurt and betrayed and possibly even not being able to get past it. It is a lot to get past.

If he was mocking, laughing, and using foul language, however, I'd wonder just how "Christian" he really is.

I hope maybe he will join the conversation at some point.


----------



## [email protected]

I'm afraid her marriage is dead. It can't go on as it has, but if she lays out details, her H will be sexually crushed. It's a no-win situation.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> No it's not a good sex life. I don't have orgasms with him and I like guys to be more dominant. Trying to make it work. I'd do anything for him but he doesn't seem to care or want it. I guess i wish i felt more wanted. I don't really understand because just about all the other guys i was with wanted to take everything.
> 
> I don't think your way would work. YOu can't tell half of it. I don't think i can expect to tell him i had sex with other guys and not say how many or what i did. I think knowing the whole truth would really really ruin him. I think it would be very hard for him to accept the whole truth of it. I mean who knows what he'd want to know.


What else would you expect from a guy that waited til marriage. The bad sex part is on you. You knew he never did and had no experience. But I guess you expected him to take you like all the other guys you lied about to him. 

And just so you know. He knows you don’t like sex with him. That is the reason he doesn’t seem to want it or care. Why would anyone want to feel like a complete failure at this. Trust me, your dissatisfaction with him is very apparent to him. 

O and why are you dissatisfied um. That’s right you want to be dominant by someone that knows what they are doing. That can never be your husband because you have shown that he is a failure in this regard.


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> If her husband were to join here, I wonder if he would feel the same way.
> 
> I could see her professing Christian husband being extremely hurt and betrayed and possibly even not being able to get past it. It is a lot to get past.
> 
> If he was mocking, laughing, and using foul language, however, I'd wonder just how "Christian" he really is.
> 
> I hope maybe he will join the conversation at some point.


She would never let her husband know about TAM. It would give away her secrets. 

And honestly I take everything she says about her husbands actions with a grain of salt. She is a lier through and through. Would not put it past her to paint him as poorly as possible.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> Just want to correct something that i said in the wrong way. I do have orgasms from sex but that just happens. He does not try to GIVE me orgasms like through doing other thigns if you know what I mean. I'm not saying that orgasms that "just happen" are not as good but just explaining what i meant. It's like we don't "share" having an orgasm. I just keep it to myself and it's like my private thing like he's not involved in it. Like I mean he hasn't brought me to orgasm and then we share it. So that's my fault but there is not a the trust and openness about sex where I feel comfortable with this. Hard to explain. I mean I trust him as my husband but not trust that I can be myself with my sexuality with him. We just don't talk about sex.
> 
> I wanted to try to explain that better because it's not like i don't have orgasms.


So in other words, your past sexual activity that you lied about to your husband makes it impossible for you to talk with your husband about sex. 

Why

Because you might let something slip about your past experience.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> My wife has this exact same thing too. You don't need to take the lead, you just need to tell him the exact same thing you have written in this post and he should be able to get the concept pretty quickly...
> I had to guess...But found it eventually. And it's awesome. (When that happens.)


She can’t because it will lead to the question of how she knows this is what she wanted. 

How would she know this if she was a virgin on her wedding night?

Um female intuition. Right


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> I am not sure it's about the performance. It's about the _feeling_. If the wife doesn't feel desired, no acrobatics or penis pumps in the bedroom can change this.


This goes both ways. She has obviously shown her disappointment in him.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> She can’t because it will lead to the question of how she knows this is what she wanted.
> 
> How would she know this if she was a virgin on her wedding night?
> 
> Um female intuition. Right


Doesn't have to be on her wedding night. And I completely disagree that it would immediately mean that she must have had sex with lots of other people. My wife never slept with anyone else yet her kinky side came out a bit later, on her own, and I am pretty sure it's not due to cheating...


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> This goes both ways. She has obviously shown her disappointment in him.


How did she show disappointment? She posted about it on TAM and there's no indication she told him that she finds sex boring with him. At least I didn't read it.


----------



## RandomDude

Ahhh... church girls lol



minimalME said:


> I understand what you're saying, and I agree that she was dishonest. Manipulative - maybe. I don't think it was malicious, but more out fear. That doesn't make it right, but I don't think talking about it with her husband will make their marriage better.
> 
> She can't go back and change the past, but she can be a great wife in the now.
> 
> In terms of being a Christian and sharing her testimony, that's completely up to her. People edit their lives all the time, sharing what they want, leaving out details that people might judge.
> 
> None of us are 100% honest. I believe it's human to shade the truth. I don't believe that lying is something we do as much as it's a part of who we are. We hide. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves.


We have be honest enough to admit that we all lie sure, but we have to be honest when it counts. OP's husband married her with the belief that his wife was a virgin. He will be devastated when he finds out, and that's always a possibility. 

Not to mention he will question what other lies his wife has come up with, can she be trusted? Is everything a lie? etc etc - the very foundation is shaky. Personally I never accept anything less than 100% trust and I've never compromised on that standard nor have I been in a situation where I had to, and that's even when my partners all lie, just like me! We are human!



> As I've gotten older, my personal experience has been the less said, the better. I used to be one of those people who tried so hard to work through problems with others - sharing my views and opinions on things, being completely honest and straightforward. It didn't improve the relationship most of the time.


This is why with judgemental attitudes (which, admit it, can be associated with many religious beliefs) I think it's not healthy to have, it forces people to close up instead of opening up, and those around you feel like they have to lie. I'd rather everyone think of me as nice and non-judgemental and then I can make more informed decisions of them.


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Ahhh... church girls lol
> 
> We have be honest enough to admit that we all lie sure, but we have to be honest when it counts. OP's husband married her with the belief that his wife was a virgin. He will be devastated when he finds out, and that's always a possibility.
> 
> Not to mention he will question what other lies his wife has come up with, can she be trusted? Is everything a lie? etc etc - the very foundation is shaky. Personally I never accept anything less than 100% trust and I've never compromised on that standard nor have I been in a situation where I had to, and that's even when my partners all lie, just like me! We are human!
> 
> This is why with judgemental attitudes (which, admit it, can be associated with many religious beliefs) I think it's not healthy to have, it forces people to close up instead of opening up, and those around you feel like they have to lie. I'd rather everyone think of me as nice and non-judgemental and then I can make more informed decisions of them.


In part, I agree with you. In this particular situation, where a man (or woman) wants to marry with specific requirements and has made that clear.

But the honesty/transparency path falls apart for me because the majority of men are so incredibly deceitful about their motives for early dating. And that behavior is completely excused as 'it's just what men do - and it's your job to wade through the bull****'.

You yourself were contemplating getting sexually involved with a married woman not too long ago. Are you trustworthy?

Also, we live in such a promiscuous world, why even bother asking? I don't.

I dated a middle aged man last year who couldn't kiss. It was truly awkward and unsatisfying. Without a word about his sexual history (which he was more than willing to overshare about - most men I've known are) that told me all I needed to know.


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> But the honesty/transparency path falls apart for me because the majority of men are so incredibly deceitful about their motives for early dating. And that behavior is completely excused as 'it's just what men do - and it's your job to wade through the bull****'.
> 
> You yourself were contemplating getting sexually involved with a married woman not too long ago. Are you trustworthy?.


:rofl:

My motives were crystal clear lol! Hahaha

Shameless!


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> :rofl:
> 
> My motives were crystal clear lol! Hahaha
> 
> Shameless!


Right. You were willing to commit adultery, and you think it's funny. 

And your motives were crystal clear? Even to her husband?


----------



## 269370

minimalME said:


> In part, I agree with you. In this particular situation, where a man (or woman) wants to marry with specific requirements and has made that clear.
> 
> But the honesty/transparency path falls apart for me because the majority of men are so incredibly deceitful about their motives for early dating. And that behavior is completely excused as 'it's just what men do - and it's your job to wade through the bull****'.
> 
> You yourself were contemplating getting sexually involved with a married woman not too long ago. Are you trustworthy?
> 
> Also, we live in such a promiscuous world, why even bother asking? I don't.
> 
> I dated a middle aged man last year who couldn't kiss. It was truly awkward and unsatisfying. Without a word about his sexual history (which he was more than willing to overshare about - most men I've known are) that told me all I needed to know.




He couldn’t kiss, as in, he sucked at it, pardon the pun, or had no/weird lips? Confused. Could you not teach him?

Of course it’s better to be open/honest about everything. But what bothers me about this thread is that there’s this ‘norm’ whereby some men feel entitlement and expectation for their woman to be a virgin prior to marriage (due to some silly religious views in that respect; which is totally hypocritical since ‘virgin’ Mary clearly couldn’t have been a virgin otherwise she couldn’t have been pregnant and given birth in the first place, but I digress...).

And that women feel they have to call themselves ‘****s’ if they somehow don’t fit into that category or they end up having these split personalities and lie as a result. I don’t think that’s ok and it’s very simplistic and narrow minded looking at this issue in terms of: ‘she lied, she’s in the wrong’ etc and ignoring the larger picture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> Right. You were willing to commit adultery, and you think it's funny.
> 
> And your motives were crystal clear? Even to her husband?


Perhaps not to her husband, I used him to stop my temptations as I can't betray trust easily. Use one principle to cover up the absense of another 

Besides, all I did was thoughts which I shared. I did not commit adultery, not that time at least.

Anyway why so serious


----------



## minimalME

inmyprime said:


> He couldn’t kiss, as in, he sucked at it, pardon the pun, or had no/weird lips? Confused. Could you not teach him?


I love kissing. It really revs me up. And I have a strong preference for French kissing. He just refused to do it. I asked him about it. He gave a half-hearted try. But he apparently didn't care for it and wasn't comfortable telling me why. Which didn't really matter, honestly. 



> Of course it’s better to be open/honest about everything. But what bothers me about this thread is that there’s this ‘norm’ whereby some men feel entitlement and expectation for their woman to be a virgin prior to marriage (due to some silly religious views in that respect; which is totally hypocritical since ‘virgin’ Mary clearly couldn’t have been a virgin otherwise she couldn’t have been pregnant and given birth in the first place, but I digress...).


Everyone has a right to express their preferences. Unfortunately, I think the world has gone a little mad, and too many people are looking for a fantasy. 



> And that women feel they have to call themselves ‘****s’ if they somehow don’t fit into that category or they end up having these split personalities and lie as a result. I don’t think that’s ok and it’s very simplistic and narrow minded looking at this issue in terms of: ‘she lied, she’s in the wrong’ etc and ignoring the larger picture.


Well, my solution to this is not to have the conversation. I've been married and given birth, so obviously, I'm not a virgin. And other than diseases, the rest really doesn't matter, and I doubt in the majority of cases that sexual histories strengthen relationships. 

It's really not about that anyway. It's more just morbid curiosity.


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Anyway why so serious


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


>


Better lol, you know I'm not bloody serious half the time.

Anyway, since we are being serious, I found most people, men and women do lie about their intentions. I used to be paranoid, hell remember all the threads I even had about testing people and all that? 

But in the end once I learnt how to just trust my instincts, not so paranoid no more. As for relationships, there are many people (which includes me which you may not even believe which I don't care about) who are honest and transparent from the get go. Why not have that as a standard? Like, looking back, in all my LTRs I've been with only the best of women, you know. Sometimes it does pay to just be picky.


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Better lol, you know I'm not bloody serious half the time.
> 
> Anyway, since we are being serious, I found most people, men and women do lie about their intentions. I used to be paranoid, hell remember all the threads I even had about testing people and all that?
> 
> *But in the end once I learnt how to just trust my instincts*, not so paranoid no more. As for relationships, there are many people (which includes me which you may not even believe which I don't care about) who are honest and transparent from the get go. Why not have that as a standard? Like, looking back, in all my LTRs I've been with only the best of women, you know. Sometimes it does pay to just be picky.


Agreed. I trust my instincts too.

Mutual devotion is what I seek, and I do believe that if I'm paying attention, it's actually very easy to see.


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> Agreed. I trust my instincts too.
> 
> Mutual devotion is what I seek, and I do believe that if I'm paying attention, it's actually very easy to see.


Aye, now you see why I don't think what OP did is right. A foundation built on lies, the walls will be lies, the windows will be lies, the roof will be lies. Then it just crashes down. Devastatingly to everyone. Maybe you can get lucky, but that is hardly ever the case.

Hence I strongly suggest full honesty for OP and her husband. Start over even. Besides it's better than having to waste extra mental energy to have to build on more and more lies.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

After I found out my wife lied, I did question everything.

We sat in pastor's office, discussing a lot of different topics. Money, kids, sex, past events in our lives that could affect the marriage.

I answered every question honestly, even some that didn't put me in a very good light. (past porn use, prior me accepting Jesus).

I wanted to be open & honest because I wanted nothing to be a hindrance to our marriage. I was determined to be the best damn Husband the world had seen.

After I found out, it literally was like a mind movie. I could see my wife sitting there answering (lying) to the pastor and I. Not a single hint that anything was amiss. @RandomDude is right, everything gets questioned. If a spouse can lie over something that is important to the other spouse, and do it well. then how much of the smaller stuff gets lied about every day?

OP is lying to her husband when they do have sex, she is unhappy, but doesn't talk to him. Her lying about her discontent is going to strangle the marriage.

** why is it after the truth comes out, then you see all the clues? I remember going to W's 5 year HS reunion. She didn't really want to go, I said we should because I wanted to meet her friends and I was planning on showing her off at my upcoming reunion. I noticed she was more nervous and distracted then I had ever seen her. We had only been married for a couple of months. After I found out, I realized the nervousness was her being afraid someone was going to say something to me.

OP may think her secret is safe, but her & hubby could walk into church one day and come face to face with someone from her past. People do change, decide they want a different life. One of her past men could show up. Even if all he said was "Hello", her H could easily pick up on there is something there.


----------



## RandomDude

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> OP may think her secret is safe, but her & hubby could walk into church one day and come face to face with someone from her past. People do change, decide they want a different life. One of her past men could show up. Even if all he said was "Hello", her H could easily pick up on there is something there.


It's a small world after all!






*sings*


----------



## TJW

minimalME said:


> I dated a middle aged man last year who couldn't kiss. It was truly awkward and unsatisfying. Without a word about his sexual history (which he was more than willing to overshare about - most men I've known are) that told me all I needed to know.


Yes. You were "told" by your own past experiences. You had, in your mind, a standard of comparison based upon having kissed other men. If you didn't kiss in your past, you would be able to say whether you liked his kiss or not, however it would not have "told" you anything about his experience level.

I'm sure that guy got "all he needed to know" as well. And, it probably didn't matter to him at all that you were experienced. His internalization of this was that you were not pleased with him, and he would face a very formidable "stretch objective", having to overcome his inexperience and "catch up" to you.

The greatest fear I have for this marriage is not at all that this man won't forgive his wife for lying. It may take him some time, but I think he will arrive at the firm conclusion that he is guilty of the very same sins which created his wife's experience.....it just didn't "play out" in his life in the same external fashion....but the sin, on the internal level, is nevertheless the same.

I think what has the potential to destroy the marriage is that he will never be able to get into a position of coming confidently to his marriage bed. He will always feel inadequate for his wife. And, to top everything off, he will get the idea that his wife lied to him about her past because he compares unfavorably to her former paramours - which drives farther in the wrong direction.

It will erode the foundation of their sex life, because his wife's responses have been trained to expect the "alpha" characteristics and her husband cannot expose his "alpha" because of her rejection.

It is going to require 1000 "good" experiences between them to overcome the envelope they are now operating in. My fear is that they will both "give up" before this can be attained...and this envelope is seriously painful for both of them.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> How did she show disappointment? She posted about it on TAM and there's no indication she told him that she finds sex boring with him. At least I didn't read it.


Can you honestly say you can’t tell when the person you are with is dissatisfied during sex?

I have been able to pick up on my wife form almost the beginning. That is how we worked it out. I could tell something was off and we would talk about it. Hell OP won’t even talk with her husband about sex because she is to scared of giving herself away. 

All of the problems in her marriage is from her lying to her husband from day one.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> Doesn't have to be on her wedding night. And I completely disagree that it would immediately mean that she must have had sex with lots of other people. My wife never slept with anyone else yet her kinky side came out a bit later, on her own, and I am pretty sure it's not due to cheating...


What are you even talking about????

She is a lier. Plain and simple. 

She lied to her husband about being a virgin. 

She is bored and dissatisfied with sex with him because he is inexperienced. She might not be this way now if she really was a virgin. Then they could have learned together what they liked. 

If she was truthful with him he might have still married her. Then they would have at least started on level ground. Then they could actually talked about sex and gotten on. 

Instead she is here I have lied my ass off to my now husband and he is clueless when it comes to sex, he actually sucks at it. Woe is me. 

Any guy with half a brain knows when a girl is not feeling it in bed.


----------



## TJW

ABHale said:


> If she was truthful with him he might have still married her. Then they would have at least started on level ground.


I think he would have still married her.... after all, she is the ONE GIRL he found in life to whom he wanted to give himself....


----------



## 269370

But it's all worked out pretty fairly though: she omitted the fact that she wasn't a virgin in order to get married to someone under false pretences (apparently) and now has to sleep with someone she doesn't enjoy sleeping with. The husband on the other hand, gets to sleep with a very skilful woman, thinking that she was a virgin.
She is the one suffering because of guilt and not enjoying herself. While husband should be rejoicing at all the amazing sex he could be having...But I suspect that because he is not very good at it, he probably is not enjoying it as much as he could...
Alternatively, he could be having boring sex with a virgin called Dave. Maybe that would be more up his street who knows...
I am pretty sure it will eventually resolve itself. One way or another.


----------



## Nucking Futs

TJW said:


> I think he would have still married her.... after all, she is the ONE GIRL he found in life to whom he wanted to give himself....


No. The girl she was pretending to be is the one girl he wanted to give himself to. And is still pretending to be. Her husband has still never met the real her.


----------



## 269370

People seem to be mostly upset about the fact that she got some kind of 'advantage' by lying. Well, she didn't but the husband has someone who could 'rock his world' in the bedroom (potentially).
Don't really see what the big deal is.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> People seem to be mostly upset about the fact that she got some kind of 'advantage' by lying. Well, she didn't but the husband has someone who could 'rock his world' in the bedroom (potentially).
> Don't really see what the big deal is.


Because you don't think like her husband. He didn't want a porn star, he wanted a chased women who they could build intimacy.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> Because you don't think like her husband. He didn't want a porn star, he wanted a chased women who they could build intimacy.


So what? We don't always get what we want. He should make the best out of what he has got.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> So what? We don't always get what we want. He should make the best out of what he has got.


The best of what? She has not even told him the truth yet. Right now he has a wife who continues to lie to him about a primary part of their relationship. She hardly seem mature enough to be married in my book anyway.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> The best of what? She has not even told him the truth yet. Right now he has a wife who continues to lie to him about a primary part of their relationship. She hardly seem mature enough to be married in my book anyway.


I guess he loves her on the basis of who she is and how she has been with him so far, and not on the basis of what she did in her past. Which is *her* past. Not his and not theirs.

Yes, we all want 72 virgins who are also amazing in bed and always wanting to have sex with us.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> But it's all worked out pretty fairly though: she omitted the fact that she wasn't a virgin in order to get married to someone under false pretences (apparently) and now has to sleep with someone she doesn't enjoy sleeping with. The husband on the other hand, gets to sleep with a very skilful woman, thinking that she was a virgin.
> She is the one suffering because of guilt and not enjoying herself. While husband should be rejoicing at all the amazing sex he could be having...But I suspect that because he is not very good at it, he probably is not enjoying it as much as he could...
> Alternatively, he could be having boring sex with a virgin called Dave. Maybe that would be more up his street who knows...
> I am pretty sure it will eventually resolve itself. One way or another.


This is such bs. 

Yes let the husband rejoice he married a lier that has lied and continues to lie to him. Just what ever husband wants!

Your so full of it. Their sex life sucks for both of them or did you miss the part where he can careless about being with his lying wife.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> This is such bs.
> 
> Yes let the husband rejoice he married a lier that has lied and continues to lie to him. Just what ever husband wants!
> 
> Your so full of it. Their sex life sucks for both of them or did you miss the part where he can careless about being with his lying wife.


I haven't heard her husband complaining about *his* sex life with her. Have you??


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> I guess he loves her on the basis of who she is and how she has been with him so far, and not on the basis of what she did in her past. Which is *her* past. Not his and not theirs.
> 
> Yes, we all want 72 virgins who are also amazing in bed and always wanting to have sex with us.


How about just someone who is honest, authentic and open about who they are and their lives history. Seems like I am asking for a lot less. 

I get it though honesty is less important to you then her being great in bed. To me this sounds like a good basis for a ONS or a FWB but not a wife, and certainly not someone I would raising kids with.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> I guess he loves her on the basis of who she is and how she has been with him so far, and not on the basis of what she did in her past. Which is *her* past. Not his and not theirs.
> 
> Yes, we all want 72 virgins who are also amazing in bed and always wanting to have sex with us.


Yes it is HIS. She lied to him. When she first met him she was screwing every Tom, **** and Harry. While telling her future husband she was waiting until marriage. Her past became his at the point they started to talk about marriage because she knew damn well he might not have ever asked if he knew the truth. He told her he was looking for someone that was waiting like he was. 

He is a Christian not a Muslim you idiot.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> Yes it is HIS. She lied to him. When she first met him she was screwing every Tom, **** and Harry. While telling her future husband she was waiting until marriage. Her past became his at the point they started to talk about marriage because she knew damn well he might not have ever asked if he knew the truth. He told her he was looking for someone that was waiting like he was.
> 
> He is a Christian not a Muslim you idiot.


:rofl:


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> How about just someone who is honest, authentic and open about who they are and their lives history. Seems like I am asking for a lot less.
> 
> I get it though honesty is less important to you then her being great in bed. To me this sounds like a good basis for a ONS or a FWB but not a wife, and certainly not someone I would raising kids with.


I actually know a few girls who were extremely, shall we say, 'active' in their youths but who went on to become some of the most devoted wives/mothers after settling down. I don't see why OP is not 'qualified' to do the same just because the husband asks *intimate questions that are none of his goddam business*.

Besides, it has been 49+ pages: does anybody really think that she will ever listen to a word anyone said and tell him about her past?


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> I actually know a few girls who were extremely, shall we say, 'active' in their youths but who went on to become some of the most devoted wives/mothers after settling down. I don't see why OP is not 'qualified' to do the same just because the husband asks *intimate questions that are none of his goddam business*.
> 
> Besides, it has been 49+ pages: does anybody really think that she will ever listen to a word anyone said and tell him about her past?


No.

If it was none of his business she should have said that. She didn't she lied.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> No.
> 
> If it was none of his business she should have said that.


I guess she felt it was a rude thing to say, for a good Catholic girl everyone and their dog demand her to be.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> I guess she felt it was a rude thing to say, for a good Catholic girl everyone and their dog demand her to be.


Common man, she lied because it put her in a better position to get what she wanted, which was him. Are you really still trying to argue this point? 

Do you really have this little regard for truth in relationships and marriage? Is your point REALLY that it's not important?


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> Common man, she lied because it put her in a better position to get what she wanted, which was him. Are you really still trying to argue this point?


Yes exactly: what advantage did she gain by lying to him, besides all the lousy sex? She is the one who lost out in this 'deal'.



sokillme said:


> Do you really have this little regard for truth in relationships and marriage? Is your point REALLY that it's not important?


No, that wasn't my point at all.


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> Yes exactly: what advantage did she gain by lying to him, besides all the lousy sex? She is the one who lost out in this 'deal'.


It's not the consequences that are the problem but the motive.



> No, that wasn't my point at all.


This may not be the point you are trying to make but it's the point you are arguing whether you know it or not. At least to me.


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> It's not the consequences that are the problem but the motive.
> 
> 
> 
> This may not be the point you are trying to make but it's the point you are arguing whether you know it or not. At least to me.


I think I should be able to know what I am arguing since it's me :wink2:


----------



## oldtruck

inmyprime said:


> People seem to be mostly upset about the fact that she got some kind of 'advantage' by lying. Well, she didn't but the husband has someone who could 'rock his world' in the bedroom (potentially).
> Don't really see what the big deal is.





sokillme said:


> Because you don't think like her husband. He didn't want a porn star, he wanted a chased women who they could build intimacy.





inmyprime said:


> So what? We don't always get what we want. He should make the best out of what he has got.


Thing is this man will never get the wild monkey porn star sex from his wife.
She will not give it to him.
She will not teach him how to elevate his game.
To do so she would have to tell the truth.


----------



## 269370

oldtruck said:


> Thing is this man will never get the wild monkey porn star sex from his wife.
> She will not give it to him.
> She will not teach him how to elevate his game.
> To do so she would have to tell the truth.


Yes I don't understand why this would be the case. She could just slowly 'build up' the level without him noticing and pass it off as 'experimentation'. Like I said, we did this and imporved continuously until 'proficiency' level and I have no suspicions :nerd:
The problem is he doesn't seem to want to be taught (from her descriptions) because he is content with vanilla sex and she is miserable because of it.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> People seem to be mostly upset about the fact that she got some kind of 'advantage' by lying. Well, she didn't but the husband has someone who could 'rock his world' in the bedroom (potentially).
> Don't really see what the big deal is.


 Unless you are one of those who considers sex very important and for marriage only, you wont see what the big deal is.

I also think its odd that people think that just because you have multiple partners then you will be better at sex, often not the case. Also you will not act like a porn star because porn starts are all acting and in fact many of them actually hate sex.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Unless you are one of those who considers sex very important and for marriage only, you wont see what the big deal is.
> 
> I also think its odd that people think that just because you have multiple partners then you will be better at sex, often not the case. Also you will not act like a porn star because porn starts are all acting and in fact many of them actually hate sex.


I agree, you can actually improve at sex faster if you have the same partner because you would have less inhibitions to try new things. With new partners, you would just be going through the motions, in fear of doing something wrong, as preferences will vary from partner to partner.
But I would say this wouldn't I. I have only ever had one sexual partner.

I consider sex very important, very personal and a very intimate thing between two people. I am less convinced that it should be 'only for the marriage'. I think you can be very devoted to each other without being married and marriage perhaps is more like a ritual and is only important from a legal point of view as far as each other's rights go (in divorce etc). I actually prefer the term 'civil partnership' and would do away with the whole 'marriage' thing.

I was together with my wife since the age of 16, we got married 9 years later but had sex about 6-8 months into our relationship.
Neither of us had anyone else. So I guess I can't really relate to the OP or her husband but I am trying to be objective about the whole thing. And something really bothers me about this entitlement of him sticking his head into her private life (*before him*) that should not really be of concern to him.

But each person is entitled to their views. And we all want the same thing in the end (someone we can trust and be honest with).


----------



## BluesPower

inmyprime said:


> I guess he loves her on the basis of who she is and how she has been with him so far, and not on the basis of what she did in her past. Which is *her* past. Not his and not theirs.
> 
> Yes, we all want 72 virgins who are also amazing in bed and always wanting to have sex with us.


While I think (?) that your comments must be tongue in cheek, I don't really care. 

What we have here is two people that are in a situation because of her lying. He is inexperienced and probably has no idea what he is doing. She lied and is afraid to express her need because she will be outed. She in unhappy because she is not getting he needs met. 

And he is probably not that into having sex with her because even a moron knows when someone is not into it. 

There are a number of way that this could be fixed, I but is suspect that she will stay until she has an affair, he finds out and divorces her. 

All of this silliness could be avoided even now if she had the courage to be honest. He may divorce her or he may step up his game. 

But this situation is not good for either...


----------



## personofinterest

I grew up in a very conservative church where purity was emphasized. Your virginity was a God-given gift to only be shared with your husband on your wedding night. In fact, it ewnt further than that. Because it was also a matter of the heart, we were encouraged to stay as far from that line as possible rather than see how close we could get and still be a virgin on a technicality. No heavy petting, etc. (do people even still say that lol).

I can completely understand the OP's thought process when she lied. I am NOT justifying it. I just came from that same background and dated guys who not only wanted a virgin, they wanted a woman who had never French kissed a guy, been touched "here" or "there," etc.

I do not believe the OP rubbed her hands together with glee and said 'Mwahahahaha, I shall dupe this poor guy so I can get his wallet and all the goodies that come along with wifedom." Anybody who honestly thinks she did that needs to get off AskMen and Reddit. She was ashamed and horrified at her past, she felt that shame every time she sat at a restaurant table or sofa with all the "pure" people who were discussing sinners. She had very real feelings for this man, and she was afraid and ashamed.

It still does not make it right. It was still a lie. But I believe she WANTED it to be true. That may not make sense to all you enlightened, modern, sex-lovers who did it with everyone you dated. But I GET her shame. I was a virgin when I married, but I remember tearfully confessing to my boyfriend who would be my first husband that I had "been parking before. Please forgive me." (All I did was kiss)

Now the question becomes: when we confess our sins and repent, and God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, and we are "new creations," what does that mean? What does that mean to her husband?

I truly believe you should sit down and tell all of this to you husband humbly, honestly, and without expectation of an outcome. He might surprise you and believe II Corinthians 5:17. Or he might react as many of the males here. Or somewhere in between.

I still say both of you knowing who you married is something you both need.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

By this time OP should've had some semblance of a talk with spouse and their sex life already improving. *if she wants to stay married. This can't go on forever.


----------



## 269370

gowithuhtred said:


> By this time OP should've had some semblance of a talk with spouse and their sex life already improving. *if she wants to stay married. This can't go on forever.



This thread apparently can


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oldtruck

inmyprime said:


> Yes I don't understand why this would be the case. She could just slowly 'build up' the level without him noticing and pass it off as 'experimentation'. Like I said, we did this and imporved continuously until 'proficiency' level and I have no suspicions :nerd:
> The problem is he doesn't seem to want to be taught (from her descriptions) because he is content with vanilla sex and she is miserable because of it.


He only wants vanilla because that is all he knows.
He has no idea of all the different flavors that he can have.
No idea leads to not looking for them.


----------



## oldtruck

Diana7 said:


> Unless you are one of those who considers sex very important and for marriage only, you wont see what the big deal is.
> 
> I also think its odd that people think that just because you have multiple partners then you will be better at sex, often not the case. Also you will not act like a porn star because porn starts are all acting and in fact many of them actually hate sex.


I have seen porn stars interview. Most often comment, you have to like having
a lot of sex to be in this business.

Though also say sex in front of the camera does not compare to the sex
they have within their personal relationship. There they are able to combine
their skill levels with real emotional connection when off the movie set.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> I actually know a few girls who were extremely, shall we say, 'active' in their youths but who went on to become some of the most devoted wives/mothers after settling down. I don't see why OP is not 'qualified' to do the same just because the husband asks *intimate questions that are none of his goddam business*.
> 
> Besides, it has been 49+ pages: does anybody really think that she will ever listen to a word anyone said and tell him about her past?


I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I've read every single post on this thread and it has me thinking. Believe me. I knwo how bad it is.

Thank you for saying that you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.


Yes, that is absolutely correct. And, not only a good wife, but a wife who can make her husband feel like a king, whose wife desires him and loves him physically as well as spiritually and emotionally, and follows him as if she were following Christ Himself.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)

_Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new._

My beloved young sister, choose to take God at His word....this is not a fairy tale, nor is it some tradition, or fable..... tell God that you are here for Him, and for your husband, and ask Him to demonstrate this very verse in your life. Then, allow God to teach you how to carry your "new creature" into your marriage, just as if there had been no other men but your husband.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I've read every single post on this thread and it has me thinking. Believe me. I knwo how bad it is.
> 
> Thank you for saying that you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.


I have known some women who were as wild as feral cats who became absolute paragons of fidelity once married. Their devotion to their husbands is inviolate.

The key is whether or not a woman can take their experience and shape it in such a manner as to fully enjoy their life partner. 

One key question here is are you able to do that? And can you do so knowing you have deceived him?


----------



## CharlieParker

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I have known some women who were as wild as feral cats who became absolute paragons of fidelity once married. Their devotion to their husbands is inviolate.
> 
> The key is whether or not a woman can take their experience and shape it in such a manner as to fully enjoy their life partner.


That's absolutely my wife. 


Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And can you do so knowing you have deceived him?


But, she was always upfront about it.


----------



## samyeagar

CharlieParker said:


> That's absolutely my wife.
> 
> But, she was always upfront about it.


Same with my wife. With one exception, and that almost ended our relationship.


----------



## Nucking Futs

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I've read every single post on this thread and it has me thinking. Believe me. I knwo how bad it is.
> 
> *Thank you for saying that you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.*


Most of us have never said you can't be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys before getting with your husband. But you absolutely will never be a good wife as long as you're living the lie with him. You cannot be a good wife if you deceived your husband into marriage without rectifying that sin.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CharlieParker said:


> That's absolutely my wife.
> 
> But, she was always upfront about it.


Ditto my brother and his wife.

I had a female friend in college. Exceptionally bright and attractive, funny, great personality. But she was rather active. Multidated big time with little concern about having multiple physical relationships.

My mom (non knowing her extracurriculars) suggested I date her. That was kinda funny. But knowing her tendencies, I was, for lack of a better word, intimidated, and simply said I didn't want to do anything that might threaten our friendship. 

She ended up marrying an evangelical Christian and being the perfect Christian wife. A pillar of fidelity, devoted mother, and they are still going strong three decades later. While I would have liked to have had more self confidence back then, I don't lament not having pursued a relationship. In an interesting turn, she is the one who introduced me to the marvelous woman who would ultimately become my wife. She ended up being the Maid of Honor in our wedding while my wife was a Maid in hers. 

To relate this little anecdote to the topic at hand, here the wild woman did indeed marry a devoted Christian who would have been looking for a woman of great virtue. But they clicked and he was very self confident and even knew while they were dating that he was one of many and was able to see the whole person rather than just a woman with a sexual history.


----------



## minimalME

oldtruck said:


> He only wants vanilla because that is all he knows.
> He has no idea of all the different flavors that he can have.
> No idea leads to not looking for them.


I disagree with this. 

Also, in an earlier post I made about kissing, someone alluded to the fact that my kissing abilities and preferences _must_ have come about by kissing many people. Not so.

A person (man or woman) can sleep with tons of partners and still be an awful lover. And an inexperienced person (ie someone who marries with no previous sexual experience) who _wants_ to be a good lover, and who _wants_ to learn, has endless opportunities to develop those skills. 

In this age of information, there's just really no excuse. Articles, books, videos, _practice_, communication, etc.

Someone who wants to learn, learns.


----------



## Diana7

oldtruck said:


> I have seen porn stars interview. Most often comment, you have to like having
> a lot of sex to be in this business.
> 
> Though also say sex in front of the camera does not compare to the sex
> they have within their personal relationship. There they are able to combine
> their skill levels with real emotional connection when off the movie set.


I have seen porn stars interviewed who were an emotional mess. Many hated sex. Many had been abused.They are acting juts like any other actors. Its make believe.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I have known some women who were as wild as feral cats who became absolute paragons of fidelity once married. Their devotion to their husbands is inviolate.
> 
> The key is whether or not a woman can take their experience and shape it in such a manner as to fully enjoy their life partner.
> 
> One key question here is are you able to do that? And can you do so knowing you have deceived him?


I don't think that anyone has said that you cant be a good wife,but that would involve being an honest and open wife, not living in lies and deception. 
I cant believe you are still deceiving him after all this time.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I've read every single post on this thread and it has me thinking. Believe me. I knwo how bad it is.
> 
> Thank you for saying that you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.


What are you going to do about the boring sex with the husband in the long term, is what I am more concerned about than the telling vs non telling. The former is not going to go away.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> What are you going to do about the boring sex with the husband in the long term, is what I am more concerned about than the telling vs non telling. The former is not going to go away.


Sex in marriage can always be worked on and changed. Lying and deception is a different thing altogether and has no place in marriage.


----------



## TJW

minimalME said:


> And an inexperienced person (ie someone who marries with no previous sexual experience) who _wants_ to be a good lover, and who _wants_ to learn, has endless opportunities to develop those skills.
> 
> Someone who wants to learn, learns.


And, the corollary is also true, that an experienced person (who marries with lots of experience) also has endless opportunities to develop new skills which are compatible within the marriage.

I'm betting that this young man is intimidated.....he knows his wife is not pleased with him. I'm also betting that if he weren't intimidated, or could see in his wife's body language, in her smile, in her eyes, that she accepted him just the way he is.... that he would show himself to be someone who wants to learn.

Right now, because of the dynamic going on between these partners, his reluctance to learn comes from the painful experience of feeling rejected by his wife. He is likely overwhelmed at the prospect of ever being able to learn "enough" to please her. He sees himself with a long way to go, and a short time to get there.

Proverbs 3:5–6 (KJV): 

_Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and He shall direct thy paths._

This young wife has a faulty understanding which can be replaced by a correct understanding. God here promises that He will direct her efforts toward creating a satisfying sexual experience with her husband.

As she "acknowledges Him", by careful rethinking of her own desires, and adopting her position in the marriage just as if she came to it a virgin, learning together with her husband how she can please him and how he can please her, all conditions of chastity which were sought by her husband will be fulfilled completely, and this marriage can "begin again" on a path directed by God.

The OP must stop "leaning to her own understanding" which she obtained through her past experiences, and become "open" to a NEW understanding which will grow through her marriage.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Sex in marriage can always be worked on and changed. Lying and deception is a different thing altogether and has no place in marriage.


If the chemistry between two people in bed is not there, you can't magically manufacture it. From what Justthewife wrote, they didn't have one good session. He is incapable of desiring her the way she wants him to.


----------



## TAMAT

JTW, 

There is a possibility your H already senses something is amiss in your relationship and he feels secretly insecure about it. 

You mentioned he was a virgin when you met him, and in spite of his religious background he may have been ashamed of that fact. On one level it is a more choice but on another a rejection by women in general.

Men might not remember what color your shoes where or how thoughtful you were to buy his Mom flowers, but they do notice sexual subtleties, comments and body language. Your past may have already leaked out more than you know.

Don't let him waste more years of his life in a lackluster marriage which is utilitarian rather than passionate.

Tamat


----------



## Adelais

sokillme said:


> Because you don't think like her husband. He didn't want a porn star, he wanted a *chased* women who they could build intimacy.


Well he got a chased woman. All the guys at the bar were chasing her!

If what he wanted was a chaste woman...well, he was duped.

(sorry, skm, I could't pass that one up! Feel free to return the favor next time you catch one of my grammar faux pas, because I know I make them. :smile2: )


----------



## TJW

TAMAT said:


> he was a virgin when you met him, and in spite of his religious background he may have been ashamed of that fact. On one level it is a more choice but on another a rejection by women in general.


I think this is quite insightful..... and quite ironic....she feels inferior to him, and he feels inferior to her. 

This is going to be every bit as difficult for him, as for her. It will take time and fearless introspection by both of them.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> And we all want the same thing in the end (someone we can trust and be honest with).


Sir, you would appear to have refuted your own rather copious arguments with this sentence. 

JustTheWife, who is your soul mate? The person who gets you, who loves you just as you are, who will have your back when times get hard?


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> Sir, you would appear to have refuted your own rather copious arguments with this sentence.



I know, I never really argued otherwise. That's the ideal, but we can't always have the ideal.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> I know, I never really argued otherwise. That's the ideal, but we can't always have the ideal.


I read the entire thread in one sitting. All your posts. 

You have appeared to me to argue otherwise consistently, but if you say I have misread you, then I will accept I was mistaken. Provided you agree that an honest relationship cannot be built on a lie.

If you argue for the acceptance of a less than honest relationship, it’s not a position I agree with, but it’s a fair point to put forward.


----------



## mupostori

At least the marriage is only one year old . There is a saying "nothing is hidden under the sun" your husband could find out the truth later . Who knows what will happen tomorrow. 

The only way out of this is by confessing .

I do not condemn you but go and sin no more . My interpretation of sin no more is stop this lie . For as long as your husband thinks you were a virgin it is still a lie.

However I have a question , If she does confess her lie does her husband have the biblical grounds to divorce her since she has not committed adultery .


----------



## minimalME

mupostori said:


> However I have a question , If she does confess her lie *does her husband have the biblical grounds to divorce her* since she has not committed adultery .


No.


----------



## TJW

mupostori said:


> However I have a question , If she does confess her lie does her husband have the biblical grounds to divorce her since she has not committed adultery .


There are some biblical scholars who would answer yes, based upon two observances:

The injunction of the Lord Jesus Christ as recorded in Matthew 19:9 uses the (original language) greek word transliterated porneia. It is a different word than the greek transliteration moicheia, which specifically indicates adultery between married people. However, it cannot be said that porneia includes only premarital sexual activity.

In the time of the bible, and in the Jewish society where Christ taught,
premarital sexual activity was dealt with by divorce, whereas postmarital adultery was dealt with by death. 

These trains of thought, regardless of the scholarship eminence, are completely and wholly legalistic views, as is the view that only postmarital sexual activity is the sole ground for divorce.

We, as Christians, are instructed to conduct our lives not by the "law", but rather, by grace. Grace is defined as "unmerited favor". It is the position which is taken toward all we sinners by God and His Son. It is therefore, more in keeping with the whole context of God's word to not divorce our spouses for this, or any, reason.... but rather to offer and complete forgiveness, and continue to honor our marital vows.


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> I read the entire thread in one sitting. All your posts.
> 
> You have appeared to me to argue otherwise consistently, but if you say I have misread you, then I will accept I was mistaken. *Provided you agree that an honest relationship cannot be built on a lie.*
> 
> If you argue for the acceptance of a less than honest relationship, it’s not a position I agree with, but it’s a fair point to put forward.


It's not as simple as that. I believe the ideal relationship should not need to have any mistruths in it, yes. However this is hardly ever possible in reality.

In this particular case, it's extremely simplistic to just look at this one omission and not take the whole context into account (such as the reasons why she felt she had to omit the fact that she was not a virgin; the religious context, his entitlement and need to know her past and want a virgin wife: I find many thongs wrong with this in principle. Her deep dissatisfaction with their sex life and him: this is to me the crux of the issue).

For some, it's as simple as: 'lier! burn her at the stake!' 

For me, these are all factors that make up a complex situation. Perhaps that's why you might be confused by my answers as it's not a straightforward 'yes' or 'no'.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> It's not as simple as that. I believe the ideal relationship should not need to have any mistruths in it, yes. However this is hardly ever possible in reality.
> 
> In this particular case, it's extremely simplistic to just look at this one omission and not take the whole context into account (such as the reasons why she felt she had to omit the fact that she was not a virgin; the religious context, his entitlement and need to know her past and want a virgin wife: I find many thongs wrong with this in principle. Her deep dissatisfaction with their sex life and him: this is to me the crux of the issue).
> 
> For some, it's as simple as: 'lier! burn her at the stake!'
> 
> For me, these are all factors that make up a complex situation. Perhaps that's why you might be confused by my answers as it's not a straightforward 'yes' or 'no'.


So you *are* arguing for the acceptance of a less than honest relationship. Just so we're clear. You have reasons why, but that is what you are arguing. You are saying its ok to lie here.

But it is actually simple. Total honesty is within her reach. She just has to tell the truth. At that point she becomes trustworthy. It is that black and white. Lie and you are not honest or trustworthy. Tell the truth and you are. But you would deny him a marriage of trust and honesty because you have a different view on sexual and religious politics. And its not even necessary. If he had asked and she had said "That's not your business" then everything would be different. But she didn't. (And by the way, she still could say that). Likewise, if they were a couple that tended to leave such things unspoken, it would be a different conversation. But that's not what happened. 

There is still the next explosion to come. If he finds out, unbidden, from her, that can actually build trust, because it demonstrates trustworthiness. If on the other hand he finds out from elsewhere, how will she ever demonstrate her word is worth anything? And the reason so many here are saying he can find out elsewhere is because it has happened in our lives. To ignore the possibility is wishful thinking. No-one can be that careful. 

But even before that explosion, things are not working. I get the sense she is really hurting. She is sitting in church groups thinking what a fake she is, struggling with lying to her husband, and in counselling to work out what is going on. And her marriage is struggling in what should be the honeymoon years. How's it going to go as things get tough? But, in part, I think the weight of the lie may be making things feel worse than they are.

One way or another, her internal dissonance will resolve itself. Either she will fess up, or she will shut down her feelings to deal with the guilt she obviously feels. And if she shuts down her feelings, she will most likely end up destroying the marriage. Maybe years from now, when there are kids and serious financial commitments, causing greater impact. 

Honesty is not only possible in this circumstance, I genuinely believe its the best chance for the marriage.


----------



## ConanHub

inmyprime said:


> If the chemistry between two people in bed is not there, you can't magically manufacture it. From what Justthewife wrote, they didn't have one good session. He is incapable of desiring her the way she wants him to.


This isn't exactly true.

I had extensive experience before meeting my wife.

When we were first intimate, she probably wouldn't have rated in my top 5 experiences, maybe not even in the top 10.

I'm sure she didn't have a great time that first session either.

We were both committed to learning however and within the first 3-4 days, I had her howling and making animal noises.

I had instant chemistry with many of my partners before her but we had to work at it.

She has easily become my greatest sex partner in terms of quality and quantity.

It took determined decisions on our part to have really good sex because it didn't just happen.


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> So you *are* arguing for the acceptance of a less than honest relationship. Just so we're clear. You have reasons why, but that is what you are arguing. You are saying its ok to lie here.



No, I don‘t. I understand why people think a ‘totally honest and transparent relationship’ is a good thing and how it COULD be beneficial if she told him, in theory, I also understand why she has her reasons not to and that he doesn’t have the right to demand this from her in the first place. Some have difficulties in thinking about matters in anything but black or white terms.
Telling someone ‘it’s none of your business’ doesn’t make a relationship especially transparent nor honest either. It just ticks off a technicality box.
I also very much doubt he will be going anywhere if she tells him but I do think it’s up to her if she wants to tell him or not. It’s her past and none of his business really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

ConanHub said:


> This isn't exactly true.
> 
> 
> 
> I had extensive experience before meeting my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> When we were first intimate, she probably wouldn't have rated in my top 5 experiences, maybe not even in the top 10.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure she didn't have a great time that first session either.
> 
> 
> 
> We were both committed to learning however and within the first 3-4 days, I had her howling and making animal noises.
> 
> 
> 
> I had instant chemistry with many of my partners before her but we had to work at it.
> 
> 
> 
> She has easily become my greatest sex partner in terms of quality and quantity.
> 
> 
> 
> It took determined decisions on our part to have really good sex because it didn't just happen.




We are probably talking about different things: I’m not talking about skill (which can be learnt and improved upon), just raw attraction.
When we first slept around age of 16-17 (both virgins), we were both pretty sh1t at it but my desire for my wife was at 10+ and has always been regardless.
We got better at it for sure. Practice makes perfect.
JTW has a husband who doesn’t have that raw attraction towards her. That’s the part you can’t manufacture out of thin air.

So frankly, I think telling vs non telling is a complete moot point because they are unlikely to stay together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> No, I don‘t. I understand why people think a ‘totally honest and transparent relationship’ is a good thing and how it COULD be beneficial if she told him, in theory, I also understand why she has her reasons not to and that he doesn’t have the right to demand this from her in the first place. Some have difficulties in thinking about matters in anything but black or white terms.
> Telling someone ‘it’s none of your business’ doesn’t make a relationship especially transparent nor honest either. It just ticks off a technicality box.
> I also very much doubt he will be going anywhere if she tells him but I do think it’s up to her if she wants to tell him or not. It’s her past and none of his business really.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven’t argued for total transparency. I have acknowledged a straight out, explicit lie. She knows it matters. It’s eating her up. You seem to be uncomfortable with admitting it’s a lie. Why?

I agree it’s up to her whether to tell him, but it’s also up to him what he decides is essential. They both have to honour the terms they have agreed. She was not forced. His views are different from yours, and mine, but they are hardly uncommon. He has the right to hold them. 

She loves him. It could be a great marriage if she sorts this out.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> We are probably talking about different things: I’m not talking about skill (which can be learnt and improved upon), just raw attraction.
> When we first slept around age of 16-17 (both virgins), we were both pretty sh1t at it but my desire for my wife was at 10+ and has always been regardless.
> We got better at it for sure. Practice makes perfect.
> JTW has a husband who doesn’t have that raw attraction towards her. That’s the part you can’t manufacture out of thin air.
> 
> So frankly, I think telling vs non telling is a complete moot point because they are unlikely to stay together.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perhaps she cannot relax enough to feel the attraction because the lie is in the way. Sex is often a barometer of other things.


----------



## [email protected]

I think that the marriage is dead. In fact, in know about a guy who was a virgin and thought he was marrying a virgin. But, he found out two years later that his wife had eight prior lovers.
He divorced her because he coulsn't get the priors out of his head. Yet, he said that, had he know about the priors before marriage, he might have been able to work through it.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I've read every single post on this thread and it has me thinking. Believe me. I knwo how bad it is.
> 
> Thank you for saying that you can be a good wife even if you had sex with a lot of other guys.


I love it how you pick the one person posting on your thread that say its ok that you have lied to you husband from the moment the two of you met. 

Yes you can be a great wife. But you never will be to your husband. Because you don’t lie to someone then bash them on a forum like you have your husband. You have really shown how much you don’t love him.


----------



## [email protected]

I agree. She does not love her husband.


----------



## bigjohn

I totally feel for you and your hubby .I would defiantly tell him .I advise you as a husband that is in the same boat as he is. My self and my wife are both very religious and has been married for 42 years .We had sex before we got married and she professed to be a virgin .I was not and told her .It did not matter to her .After our first time I told her I was sure she was not a virgin and that it did not bother me ,my exact words to her was that even if she was a prostitute it would not bother me as I love he .For all these year she has upheld this lie and if ever we argue , which is seldom, it is because I cannot understand why she cannot just tell me the truth .Recently she got onto FB and met her first love online .Unbeknown to her I read all there emails and in there she speaks of there first time and how it was .also how she had not told me and how disappointed I was the first time we had sex .After 42 years this still drives me nuts and even after I confronted her with her emails she denied it and said she only wrote it to him because he could not remember and thought he was her first .One good thing on reading all there emails ,she did say she has never had and never will have a affair as long as I live they will never see each other again .All this means nothing to me as after all these happy years we have had I still cannot understand why she cannot be truthful and tell me .From my side I feel it will complete our marriage and I will love her even more for having the courage to tell the truth as until now our marriage was incomplete with this lie hanging over it .Wishing you all the best .Make a wise decision regards bj


----------



## sokillme

bigjohn said:


> I totally feel for you and your hubby .I would defiantly tell him .I advise you as a husband that is in the same bout as he is my self and my wife are both very religious and has been married for 42 years .We had sex before we got married and she professed to be a virgin .I was not and told her .It did not matter to her .After our first time I told her I was sure she was not a virgin and that it did nit bother me ,my exact words to her was that even if she was a prostitute it would not bother me as I love he .For all these year she has upheld this lie and if ever we argue , which is seldom it is because I cannot understand why she cannot just tell me the truth .Recently she got onto FB and met her first love online .Unbeknown to her I read all there emails and in there she speaks of there first time and how it was .also how she had not told me and how disappointed I was the first time we had sex .After 42 years this still drives me nuts and even after I confronted her with her emails she denied it and said she only wrote it to hip because he could not remember and thought he was her first .One good thing on reading all there emails ,she did say she has never had and never will have a affair as long as I live they will never see each other again .All this means nothing to me as after all these happy years we have had I still cannot understand why she cannot be truthful and tell me .From my side I feel it will complete our marriage and I will love her even more for having the courage to tell the truth as until now our marriage was incomplete with this lie hanging over it .Wishing you all the best .Make a wise decision regards bj


Wow your wife has lied to you for 42 years and still lies to you even when the truth is obvious. Man I don't blame you for being disappointed. Who did she say she would never cheat to? You or him?


----------



## TJW

bigjohn said:


> after all these happy years we have had I still cannot understand why she cannot be truthful and tell me .
> 
> Unbeknown to her I read all there emails and in there she speaks of there first time and how it was .also how she had not told me and *how disappointed I was the first time we had sex .*


I'm guessing this is why. I think you have a wife who truly, absolutely, loves you, and who understands deeply what love is. Your wife felt deep emotional pain at knowing you were disappointed. She wanted you to have the best, and she is heartbroken that she is not the best. She doesn't want to relive that pain....and no matter how many years go by, she is afraid that is what will be her lot if she gives utterance to it.


----------



## 269370

bigjohn said:


> I totally feel for you and your hubby .I would defiantly tell him .I advise you as a husband that is in the same boat as he is. My self and my wife are both very religious and has been married for 42 years .We had sex before we got married and she professed to be a virgin .I was not and told her .It did not matter to her .After our first time I told her I was sure she was not a virgin and that it did not bother me ,my exact words to her was that even if she was a prostitute it would not bother me as I love he .For all these year she has upheld this lie and if ever we argue , which is seldom, it is because I cannot understand why she cannot just tell me the truth .Recently she got onto FB and met her first love online .Unbeknown to her I read all there emails and in there she speaks of there first time and how it was .also how she had not told me and how disappointed I was the first time we had sex .After 42 years this still drives me nuts and even after I confronted her with her emails she denied it and said she only wrote it to him because he could not remember and thought he was her first .One good thing on reading all there emails ,she did say she has never had and never will have a affair as long as I live they will never see each other again .All this means nothing to me as after all these happy years we have had I still cannot understand why she cannot be truthful and tell me .From my side I feel it will complete our marriage and I will love her even more for having the courage to tell the truth as until now our marriage was incomplete with this lie hanging over it .Wishing you all the best .Make a wise decision regards bj




That’s just...so horrendously unnecessary. Why bother lying after she knows you know and more importantly, don’t care. Perhaps she thinks you do care? Or she is afraid of god or something?

My suspicion is that the OP’s husband will not care either all that much. Perhaps a little surprised initially but if he loves her, he wouldn’t be all that bothered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> I haven’t argued for total transparency. I have acknowledged a straight out, explicit lie. She knows it matters. It’s eating her up. You seem to be uncomfortable with admitting it’s a lie. Why?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it’s up to her whether to tell him, but it’s also up to him what he decides is essential. They both have to honour the terms they have agreed. She was not forced. His views are different from yours, and mine, but they are hardly uncommon. He has the right to hold them.
> 
> 
> 
> She loves him. It could be a great marriage if she sorts this out.




The reason I’m saying that it shouldn’t be such a big deal (the whole telling versus not telling) is that perhaps she changes her view on this whole issue and stops being scared or uptight about the being a virgin thing. Then she might find it easier to just tell him and feel comfortable about it.
I really don’t think he will care all that much to be honest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

The marriage was entered into fraudulently. The truth will come out eventually. It always does.


----------



## bandit.45

inmyprime said:


> The reason I’m saying that it shouldn’t be such a big deal (the whole telling versus not telling) is that perhaps she changes her view on this whole issue and stops being scared or uptight about the being a virgin thing. Then she might find it easier to just tell him and feel comfortable about it.
> *I really don’t think he will care all that much to be honest*.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Uh huh....right.


----------



## personofinterest

bandit.45 said:


> Uh huh....right.


He will absolutely care. I am basing this on how explicit he made his desire prior to marriage, how he and other friends talk about people, and my own vast experience of this belief within the church.

That is not an indictment of him. It just IS. This is the kind of man who would have considered her unclean and broken up had he known. When she tells him, he will consider her to be that as well. He will either divorce her with the full support of his fellow believers or he will stay and this will become his trump card.

Again, not an indictment. I just know. I would bet my next paycheck.

I still think she should come clean.


----------



## bandit.45

personofinterest said:


> He will absolutely care. I am basing this on how explicit he made his desire prior to marriage, how he and other friends talk about people, and my own vast experience of this belief within the church.
> 
> That is not an indictment of him. It just IS. This is the kind of man who would have considered her unclean and broken up had he known. When she tells him, he will consider her to be that as well. He will either divorce her with the full support of his fellow believers or he will stay and this will become his trump card.
> 
> Again, not an indictment. I just know. I would bet my next paycheck.
> 
> I still think she should come clean.


She tricked him into marrying her and she needs to own up to it.


----------



## personofinterest

bandit.45 said:


> She tricked him into marrying her and she needs to own up to it.


This is why lies of omission are so dangerous. Before my current husband and I got really really serious, we talked about our pasts. I mean, not blow by blows, but the things we KNEW were pertinent and could be dealbreakers. By then I loved him. It would have HURT had he said, "Sorry, too much." But we needed to KNOW. Fortunately for us, we both have been through some similar things, we both have had similar paths of learning, and neither one of us were deterred. But I wanted him to know everything that might change his view BEFORE we made the jump.

The truth always has a way of coming to light. It's foolish to think it won't.


----------



## bandit.45

Her husband was an orthodox, by-the-book Christian trying his best to walk what he believed was the Christian path. OP was not that, but she wanted him to believe she was... so she lied. And now she realizes to her horror that she and her husband are not sexually compatible, making an already bad situation worse. She remembers what good hot sex was like, misses it, and has come to the realization that her husband can never provide it. 

What I see here is a woman who is suffering the conflict between the woman she really is and the false construct she has presented to her husband and family all these years. It is tearing her apart and causing her to build up resentment against her husband who is clueless. I don't envy her, and I have no other advice than she just needs to come clean. 

And yes, he will most likely divorce her for it.


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> He will absolutely care. I am basing this on how explicit he made his desire prior to marriage, how he and other friends talk about people, and my own vast experience of this belief within the church.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not an indictment of him. It just IS. This is the kind of man who would have considered her unclean and broken up had he known. When she tells him, he will consider her to be that as well. He will either divorce her with the full support of his fellow believers or he will stay and this will become his trump card.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, not an indictment. I just know. I would bet my next paycheck.
> 
> 
> 
> I still think she should come clean.



But his ‘explicitness’ is only according to her. We have no idea what he actually said to make her think that the marriage would be over. 
Time for another poll? 
Dear god, no!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest

inmyprime said:


> *But his ‘explicitness’ is only according to her.* We have no idea what he actually said to make her think that the marriage would be over.
> Time for another poll?
> Dear god, no!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have found that many people on forums think this way. If I am not going to try to take what the poster says at face value, I'm not going to waste my time posting. I mean, of course, ANYONE could come here and make up anything. I post in good faith assuming people are telling the truth. I don't have the time or inclination to try to figure out what someone who isn;t here posting might have "really" said.


----------



## personofinterest

bandit.45 said:


> Her husband was an orthodox, by-the-book Christian trying his best to walk what he believed was the Christian path. OP was not that, but she wanted him to believe she was... so she lied. And now she realizes to her horror that she and her husband are not sexually compatible, making an already bad situation worse. She remembers what good hot sex was like, misses it, and has come to the realization that her husband can never provide it.
> 
> What I see here is a woman who is suffering the conflict between the woman she really is and the false construct she has presented to her husband and family all these years. It is tearing her apart and causing her to build up resentment against her husband who is clueless. I don't envy her, and I have no other advice than she just needs to come clean.
> 
> And yes, he will most likely divorce her for it.


I'm sorry, I think this is reaching and possibly projection. While the OP didn't honor her beliefs for a period, that does NOT mean she was not a believer, and it does NOT mean she did not repent. One of the cornerstones of Christianity is being made new. And this whole "who she really is" thing smacks of this idea that she is tainted, damaged goods who has no choice but to go back to her "whoring ways". Nothing at ALL biblical about that kind of cynicism.

We don't KNOW what is in her heart. All we do know is that he wanted a Christian woman who HAD stayed a virgin, and she didn't. Even though she may have repented and turned around, she wasn't a virgin.

All this "she can't be a real Christian, her true self is a hussy" nonsense is just reaching. It's possible to disagree with lying without completely castigating a person.


----------



## bandit.45

personofinterest said:


> I'm sorry, I think this is reaching and possibly projection. While the OP didn't honor her beliefs for a period, that does NOT mean she was not a believer, and it does NOT mean she did not repent. One of the cornerstones of Christianity is being made new. And this whole "who she really is" thing smacks of this idea that she is tainted, damaged goods who has no choice but to go back to her "whoring ways". Nothing at ALL biblical about that kind of cynicism.
> 
> We don't KNOW what is in her heart. All we do know is that he wanted a Christian woman who HAD stayed a virgin, and she didn't. Even though she may have repented and turned around, she wasn't a virgin.
> 
> All this "she can't be a real Christian, her true self is a hussy" nonsense is just reaching. It's possible to disagree with lying without completely castigating a person.


I never said she wasn't a Christian. I never said she was a non-repentant one. I never called her damaged goods, nor do I believe she is damned. I'm sure she is a much better Christian than I am. In fact I can pretty much guarantee she is. 

What I did say is that she lied to him by presenting herself as a virgin when she was not in order to win and maintain his favor. And, in my opinion, there cannot be authentic repentance in this case without confession of the truth to her husband. Unless she does, this is going to continue to eat away at her like a slow cancer.


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> I have found that many people on forums think this way. If I am not going to try to take what the poster says at face value, I'm not going to waste my time posting. I mean, of course, ANYONE could come here and make up anything. I post in good faith assuming people are telling the truth. I don't have the time or inclination to try to figure out what someone who isn;t here posting might have "really" said.



It’s not so difficult to tell the difference between something that’s likely to be a fact and something that’s a perception thing and could be easily not 100% accurate.

For example if she posts: ‘my husband has said that he would divorce me if he ever found out I was not a virgin when he married me’ then that’s likely to be what he actually said and a fact. If she posts that she fears her husband might divorce her, the first obvious question is ‘what did he say to make you think that?’

That doesn’t mean I don’t trust what people post or think that they make stuff up. Perception is what it is.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> This is why lies of omission are so dangerous. Before my current husband and I got really really serious, we talked about our pasts. I mean, not blow by blows, but the things we KNEW were pertinent and could be dealbreakers. By then I loved him. It would have HURT had he said, "Sorry, too much." But we needed to KNOW. Fortunately for us, we both have been through some similar things, we both have had similar paths of learning, and neither one of us were deterred. But I wanted him to know everything that might change his view BEFORE we made the jump.
> 
> The truth always has a way of coming to light. It's foolish to think it won't.


It wasn’t a lie of omission. She plainly told her husband she was a virgin waiting until she got married. During the time she was having her brains ****ed out.


----------



## ABHale

Her actions are not that of a Christian.


----------



## personofinterest

ABHale said:


> It wasn’t a lie of omission. She plainly told her husband she was a virgin waiting until she got married. During the time she was having her brains ****ed out.


Um...reading comprehension. Years BEFORE she had a phase she was not proud of.

And AB, the Bible is pretty clear that a Christian is someone who has placed their faith in Christ. Christians are not perfect. So you don't get to decide whether she is a Christian. Sorry.

Good grief....the projection of "leftover stuff" is astounding.


----------



## Diana7

If she is a Christian then God will be telling her to be honest and tell him, that's why she feels so bad about it. She will carry on feeling terrible about it until she owns up to her lies and deception. I have no idea how she or anyone else could keep something so important from their spouse, God is clear on not telling lies, not being deceptive and being honest. 
It will come out one day, and if she refuses to tell him then God may well reveal it another way. That will make it worse because she didn't even have the decency to own up herself.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> If she is a Christian then God will be telling her to be honest and tell him, that's why she feels so bad about it. She will carry on feeling terrible about it until she owns up to her lies and deception. I have no idea how she or anyone else could keep something so important from their spouse, God is clear on not telling lies, not being deceptive and being honest.
> It will come out one day, and if she refuses to tell him then God may well reveal it another way. That will make it worse because she didn't even have the decency to own up herself.



Exactly....hence her posting here. It is obvious she is struggling.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> If she is a Christian then God will be telling her to be honest and tell him, that's why she feels so bad about it.



I heard god say the other day that it’s not cool that some guys try to shame women for not remaining a virgin till it suits them. Not cool at all. (What, I can’t have voices in my head too? )



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BluesPower

inmyprime said:


> I heard god say the other day that it’s not cool that some guys try to shame women for not remaining a virgin till it suits them. Not cool at all. (What, I can’t have voices in my head too? )


No one should shame a woman for not being a virgin. But she also, should not have lied to her future husband either. 

And, their is nothing wrong with people wanting their future partner to be a virgin if they both agree and both have those values. 

But make no mistake, OP in this post is the one that caused this issue, by lying to her H in the first place. 

In general I think most of us can agree that lying in any situation is not a good thing...


----------



## 269370

BluesPower said:


> No one should shame a woman for not being a virgin. But she also, should not have lied to her future husband either.
> 
> 
> 
> And, their is nothing wrong with people wanting their future partner to be a virgin if they both agree and both have those values.
> 
> 
> 
> But make no mistake, OP in this post is the one that caused this issue, by lying to her H in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> In general I think most of us can agree that lying in any situation is not a good thing...



I don’t agree with the ‘any situation’ part. I agree that lying is usually is not a good thing in most but not all situations.

I think there’s plenty wrong with those ‘values’ where women feel scared to admit that they had a normal healthy sex life prior to meeting their husband. I think it’s wrong that they are ashamed and scared that the husband will judge and then dump them if they don’t take on husband’s values willingly. I think it’s wrong that they have to refer to themselves as ‘*****s’ because those values force them to see themselves in this light. I find the whole thing quite disgusting.

I agree she should tell him the truth as well. How ****ty and undesired he makes her feel in bed. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest

And again we have this false dichotomy of 

Either she is awful and unredeemable
Or his values are wrong

How did our world get so dumb?

It is not that hard to understand a situation where she told a very bad lie but is not the scum of the earth. Where there is absolutely nothing wrong with his desire to marry a virgin AND it is possible for a non-virgin to still be a godly woman.

This whole "camps at the opposite extremes" thing is just so......ridiculous. It;s how everyone seems to view pretty much the whole world these days, and it's dumb, nonthinking.


----------



## 269370

His values are not wrong. Just narrow minded. And sexist. Would that be a reasonable expectation for a woman to expect a guy to remain a virgin?
I love many things about Christianity. But this narrow mindedness around this particular topic makes me shake my heads.
People have different opinions, get used to it. (and stop calling me dumb 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> I don’t agree with the ‘any situation’ part. I agree that lying is usually is not a good thing in most but not all situations.
> 
> I think there’s plenty wrong with those ‘values’ where women feel scared to admit that they had a normal healthy sex life prior to meeting their husband. I think it’s wrong that they are ashamed and scared that the husband will judge and then dump them if they don’t take on husband’s values willingly. I think it’s wrong that they have to refer to themselves as ‘*****s’ because those values force them to see themselves in this light. I find the whole thing quite disgusting.
> 
> I agree she should tell him the truth as well. How ****ty and undesired he makes her feel in bed.


There is lots of disagreement as to what is “normal and healthy”. The thing is, no one was going to burn at the stake. The worst thing would be that some guy decides not to be her husband because of a difference in values. Or he might accept it.

Part of the Christian teaching puts sex into a broader context. You don’t have to agree with it, but people who choose of their own free will to do so have that right. You would not accept Christian morality as a guide for your life. Why are you ok to impose your own different standards on others?

And by the way, absolutely they need to address the sexual disconnect as per your last paragraph. It’s not necessarily his failing that the sex isn’t working. It could be her expectations. But it’s there and it’s more likely to become a bigger issue over time. So, honesty (albeit with tact and compassion) is definitely needed here.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> His values are not wrong. Just narrow minded. And sexist. Would that be a reasonable expectation for a woman to expect a guy to remain a virgin?
> I love many things about Christianity. But this narrow mindedness around this particular topic makes me shake my heads.
> People have different opinions, get used to it. (and stop calling me dumb
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes it would be a reasonable expectation for the guy to remain a virgin in Christian teaching. The husband, it is stated, explicitly pursued that goal.


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> Um...reading comprehension. Years BEFORE she had a phase she was not proud of.
> 
> And AB, the Bible is pretty clear that a Christian is someone who has placed their faith in Christ. Christians are not perfect. So you don't get to decide whether she is a Christian. Sorry.
> 
> Good grief....the projection of "leftover stuff" is astounding.


I said she is not acting like a Christian. Christians don’t live in sin and deceit. This is actually what she is doing.


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> There is lots of disagreement as to what is “normal and healthy”. The thing is, no one was going to burn at the stake. The worst thing would be that some guy decides not to be her husband because of a difference in values. Or he might accept it.
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the Christian teaching puts sex into a broader context. You don’t have to agree with it, but people who choose of their own free will to do so have that right. You would not accept Christian morality as a guide for your life. Why are you ok to impose your own different standards on others?
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way, absolutely they need to address the sexual disconnect as per your last paragraph. It’s not necessarily his failing that the sex isn’t working. It could be her expectations. But it’s there and it’s more likely to become a bigger issue over time. So, honesty (albeit with tact and compassion) is definitely needed here.



Where am I imposing any of my morals on anyone?
What ‘expectations’ do you mean? So it’s ok to expect your bride to remain celibate but not ok to expect your husband to want you? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> Where am I imposing any of my morals on anyone?
> What ‘expectations’ do you mean? So it’s ok to expect your bride to remain celibate but not ok to expect your husband to want you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As I understand it, you are arguing that she is ok to keep withholding the truth because his expectations are unreasonable. To me, that denies him the right to make his own decisions based on his values and the truth. And your basis is you disagree with his values.

Have I misunderstood you?


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> As I understand it, you are arguing that she is ok to keep withholding the truth because his expectations are unreasonable. To me, that denies him the right to make his own decisions based on his values and the truth. And your basis is you disagree with his values.
> 
> 
> 
> Have I misunderstood you?



The last bit is correct (I disagree with the notion that it’s reasonable to expect someone to stay a virgin, if they don’t particularly feel like it nor answer inappropriate questions if they don’t feel like it), the first bit...well here’s the thing, if it wasn’t for the last bit then the first bit would never have been an issue.

I view what he asked her as a very personal and kind of inappropriate question. It’s true she could have just said it’s none of his business (which it really isn’t, and nobody seems to be commenting on that). And I don’t know how their conversation went word for word or what kind of dynamic they had (whether she felt excessive pressure from him etc) but I see everyone jumping to the same conclusions. And that’s the reason I write the way I write: this thread is out of balance otherwise 

For the record, I don’t think it is generally a good idea to lie. But none of us were there when the conversation took place or have any clue what their relationship is like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

For me, the personal nature of the question is similar to if a guy you just began dating started talking about how disgusting a yeast infection is and then asked you whether you ever had one...I mean I don’t care what answer follows after that, it’s just not OK to ask those kinds of questions or put that kind of pressure on the other person.

And the thing is, there’s nothing wrong with getting a yeast infection, lots of people get them but if you know that the other person is really repulsed by it, then to me, deflecting the question is more in the ‘white lie’ territory rather than it being an actual lie that will actively hurt someone.

So far this lie is only hurting herself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest

I was a virgin when I married in my mid 20s. I didn't feel a bit restricted or regretful.

What you label narrow minded, I labeled a commitment to myself, God, and my future husband.

And you aren't dumb. But our society's tendency to resort to hyperbolic extremes is dumb.


----------



## Personal

BluesPower said:


> In general I think most of us can agree that lying in any situation is not a good thing...


I can't say I agree with you and as a former intelligence professional, I think it's a good thing I sometimes lied for a living.


----------



## bandit.45

LOL! I feel bad for the hubby. Not only has she painted him as a boorish Neanderthal, he sucks in the sack too.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

bandit.45 said:


> LOL! I feel bad for the hubby. Not only has she painted him as a boorish Neanderthal, he sucks in the sack too.


How can he know when she won't communicate? She knew what his background was when she married him.
As was stated earlier, he may want more, fantasize about more, but he senses her disconnect & maybe is afraid he already is pushing her boundaries.


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> Um...reading comprehension. Years BEFORE she had a phase she was not proud of.
> 
> And AB, the Bible is pretty clear that a Christian is someone who has placed their faith in Christ. Christians are not perfect. So you don't get to decide whether she is a Christian. Sorry.
> 
> Good grief....the projection of "leftover stuff" is astounding.


For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.

I believe it’s clear here that they were friends at the time she was “rebelling”. She started lying to him from the beginning. She has never been truthful to him.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> For me, the personal nature of the question is similar to if a guy you just began dating started talking about how disgusting a yeast infection is and then asked you whether you ever had one...I mean I don’t care what answer follows after that, it’s just not OK to ask those kinds of questions or put that kind of pressure on the other person.
> 
> And the thing is, there’s nothing wrong with getting a yeast infection, lots of people get them but if you know that the other person is really repulsed by it, then to me, deflecting the question is more in the ‘white lie’ territory rather than it being an actual lie that will actively hurt someone.
> 
> So far this lie is only hurting herself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s not hurting the husband? Suppose, like you, all he wants is someone he can trust who will be honest with him.....


----------



## BruceBanner

I think it's funny how women can't seem to understand why a man would want to marry a virgin when it's so obvious.


----------



## Mostlycontent

inmyprime said:


> The last bit is correct (I disagree with the notion that it’s reasonable to expect someone to stay a virgin, if they don’t particularly feel like it nor answer inappropriate questions if they don’t feel like it), the first bit...well here’s the thing, if it wasn’t for the last bit then the first bit would never have been an issue.
> 
> I view what he asked her as a very personal and kind of inappropriate question. It’s true she could have just said it’s none of his business (which it really isn’t, and nobody seems to be commenting on that). And I don’t know how their conversation went word for word or what kind of dynamic they had (whether she felt excessive pressure from him etc) but I see everyone jumping to the same conclusions. And that’s the reason I write the way I write: this thread is out of balance otherwise
> 
> For the record, I don’t think it is generally a good idea to lie. But none of us were there when the conversation took place or have any clue what their relationship is like.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect someone to stay a virgin. It may be difficult or even unlikely but I don't think someone who has chosen to remain celibate, for whatever reason, should have to settle for anything less than what they want in a mate. I think the whole problem with OP's situation is that she lied to her husband all the way back to when they were just friends. There was no need for that, particularly when they weren't even romantically involved. So obviously, this is a problem largely of her own making.

She also wasn't asked by him, to my recollection of the original post, to reveal such knowledge, but rather chose to in an attempt to confirm her convictions with him. She needn't have offered up any of that but pretty much laid her own snare. My wife and I are both Christians but neither of us were virgins at marriage. We did discuss our sexual pasts and I'm glad we did. I believe that's how you truly understand and know a person. I don't believe it healthy to conceal part of your past nor lie, whether it be straight out or by ommission, about much of anything with your life partner and parent of your children. 

You used the example of yeast but I would use the example of drug addiction. You may want to know about some of my past if we were serious and I told you that I abhored drugs but concealed the fact that I had been a meth addict 5 years prior. If you strongly objected to any kind of drug use, either past or present, and I knew that, it would be very wrong of me to do so. An no, I don't get to say that it's none of your business. I'm big on admitting it, owning it and dealing with it. I think far too many people want to do whatever the hell they want in this life with no consequences from anyone and that's just not realistic or even right. 

If OP knew it was a big deal then she needs to confess it to him and ask for forgiveness for misrepresenting herself. See what happens from there. Certainly operating in the mud of lies and deceipt isn't going to fix any of their marital problems. I can sort of understand how it could have happened but not how it has stayed a secret for this long.


----------



## 269370

Mostlycontent said:


> I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect someone to stay a virgin. It may be difficult or even unlikely but I don't think someone who has chosen to remain celibate, for whatever reason, should have to settle for anything less than what they want in a mate. I think the whole problem with OP's situation is that she lied to her husband all the way back to when they were just friends. There was no need for that, particularly when they weren't even romantically involved. So obviously, this is a problem largely of her own making.
> 
> 
> 
> She also wasn't asked by him, to my recollection of the original post, to reveal such knowledge, but rather chose to in an attempt to confirm her convictions with him. She needn't have offered up any of that but pretty much laid her own snare. My wife and I are both Christians but neither of us were virgins at marriage. We did discuss our sexual pasts and I'm glad we did. I believe that's how you truly understand and know a person. I don't believe it healthy to conceal part of your past nor lie, whether it be straight out or by ommission, about much of anything with your life partner and parent of your children.
> 
> 
> 
> You used the example of yeast but I would use the example of drug addiction. You may want to know about some of my past if we were serious and I told you that I abhored drugs but concealed the fact that I had been a meth addict 5 years prior. If you strongly objected to any kind of drug use, either past or present, and I knew that, it would be very wrong of me to do so. An no, I don't get to say that it's none of your business. I'm big on admitting it, owning it and dealing with it. I think far too many people want to do whatever the hell they want in this life with no consequences from anyone and that's just not realistic or even right.
> 
> 
> 
> If OP knew it was a big deal then she needs to confess it to him and ask for forgiveness for misrepresenting herself. See what happens from there. Certainly operating in the mud of lies and deceipt isn't going to fix any of their marital problems. I can sort of understand how it could have happened but not how it has stayed a secret for this long.



I think if people didn’t compare having sex prior to marriage to being a drug addict, perhaps she wouldn’t have felt embarrassed about it in the first place and told him.
I suppose admitting to not being a virgin anymore is akin to ‘damaged goods’ within that kind of society.
She should move somewhere a bit more normal where she wouldn’t feel the need to hide this kind of stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it’s clear here that they were friends at the time she was “rebelling”. She started lying to him from the beginning. She has never been truthful to him.




If there was nothing to rebel against (and if there wasn’t any stigma attached to it), there wouldn’t be any problem. For the life of me i don’t understand why it’s not obvious.

I had girlfriends before I met my wife and she had boyfriends. Neither of us had sex with any of these people because we didn’t really feel like it and they weren’t ‘right’. We had sex before marrying each other but we didn’t have sex with other people. Neither of us are religious or felt like we needed to ‘rebel’ or hide anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> If there was nothing to rebel against (and if there wasn’t any stigma attached to it), there wouldn’t be any problem. For the life of me i don’t understand why it’s not obvious.
> 
> I had girlfriends before I met my wife and she had boyfriends. Neither of us had sex with any of these people because we didn’t really feel like it and they weren’t ‘right’. We had sex before marrying each other but we didn’t have sex with other people. Neither of us are religious or felt like we needed to ‘rebel’ or hide anything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because you are not her husband. 

Why can’t you get through your head not everyone believes like you do. 

She could have easily found someone like her. 

What you can’t understand is that this is about her lying, entrapping a man in marriage under false pretense. 

Have I sad a damn thing about her having sex?

Your like so many that say be tolerant to others beliefs and talk down to those that don’t share yours. 

You preach tolerance and have none yourself.


----------



## ABHale

ABHale said:


> Because you are not her husband.
> 
> Why can’t you get through your head not everyone believes like you do.
> 
> *She could have easily found someone like her. *
> 
> What you can’t understand is that this is about her lying, entrapping a man in marriage under false pretense.
> 
> Have I sad a damn thing about her having sex?
> 
> Your like so many that say be tolerant to others beliefs and talk down to those that don’t share yours.
> 
> You preach tolerance and have none yourself.


i could have phrased better. 

She could have found someone that she wouldn’t feel the need to lie to. That would of loved her for who she is. 


She could have found someone more compatible with who she is instead of deceiving her husband. 

OP has done this herself. Her whole relationship is built on a lie that SHE has told from the start. Her husband spoke openly about who he was. She lied from the start of their meeting for the first time. From what OP has said in her post, he never asked if she was a virgin. She openly announced that she was one and waiting until her wedding day. 

OP believes she has done wrong or she would never be here. The wrong she has done is lying to her husband. The only way for her to get past this is to tell the truth now.


----------



## minimalME

BruceBanner said:


> I think it's funny how women can't seem to understand why a man would want to marry a virgin when it's so obvious.


I totally understand. And I think people should have the freedom and the right to marry whomever they choose.

In terms of honesty and 'transparency', a woman who's asked if she is or isn't can simply say yes or no - without feeling obligated to give a detailed history or explanation. 

Because no amount of knowing will ever be enough. And the information that she chooses to offer could be used against her in all sorts of ways.

Personally, I believe in the majority of cases, oversharing does more harm than good.


----------



## bandit.45

Doesn’t matter. She bailed.


----------



## personofinterest

BruceBanner said:


> I think it's funny how SOME women can't seem to understand why a man would want to marry a virgin when it's so obvious.


Fixed that for ya

I understand completely.


----------



## personofinterest

bandit.45 said:


> Doesn’t matter. She bailed.


I would have too. I mean look at what people have felt free to say about her.


----------



## personofinterest

ABHale said:


> Because you are not her husband.
> 
> Why can’t you get through your head not everyone believes like you do.
> 
> She could have easily found someone like her.
> 
> What you can’t understand is that this is about her lying, entrapping a man in marriage under false pretense.
> 
> Have I sad a damn thing about her having sex?
> 
> Your like so many that say be tolerant to others beliefs and talk down to those that don’t share yours.
> 
> You preach tolerance and have none yourself.



Pretty much


----------



## bandit.45

personofinterest said:


> I would have too. I mean look at what people have felt free to say about her.


Because she wouldn’t stick around to defend herself. Her biggest problem is that she is conflict avoidant. She withers when it comes to owning up to her past and taking responsibility for the choices she made. 

Not that they were intrinsically bad choices, but within the context of a devout Christian marriage those choices were incompatible with the life she aspired to live.


----------



## bandit.45

I won the trifecta bet in the Kentucky Derby ($5 for $707). I'm feeling lucky so I would wager that OP will be cheating on her husband within two years if she doesn't get her act together and get the sex issue straightened out with him. Conflict avoidance is one of the hallmarks of a person with poor coping skills and a person with poor coping skills is prone to cheating.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> Because you are not her husband.
> 
> Why can’t you get through your head not everyone believes like you do.
> 
> She could have easily found someone like her.
> 
> What you can’t understand is that this is about her lying, entrapping a man in marriage under false pretense.
> 
> Have I sad a damn thing about her having sex?
> 
> Your like so many that say be tolerant to others beliefs and talk down to those that don’t share yours.
> 
> You preach tolerance and have none yourself.



And who is supposed to be ‘someone like her’? 
Again the kind of phrasing that’s thrown about here is positively demeaning.

Lets make no mistake, the religion is making a moral judgement of her past ‘behaviour’ in the first place. (otherwise she wouldn’t find it so hard to tell him). I’m simply stating that I don’t agree with this non sense. 
You can’t oppose intolerance with tolerance.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> OP has done this herself. Her whole relationship is built on a lie that SHE has told from the start. Her husband spoke openly about who he was.



No he hasn’t. He just forgot to mention that he’s not that interested in sex and is also pretty ****ty at it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nucking Futs

inmyprime said:


> No he hasn’t. He just forgot to mention that he’s not that interested in sex and is also pretty ****ty at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like a virgin would know that.


----------



## Personal

Nucking Futs said:


> Like a virgin


----------



## Malaise

inmyprime said:


> And who is supposed to be ‘someone like her’?
> Again the kind of phrasing that’s thrown about here is positively demeaning.
> 
> Lets make no mistake, *the religion is making a moral judgement of her past ‘behaviour’ in the first place.* (otherwise she wouldn’t find it so hard to tell him). I’m simply stating that I don’t agree with this non sense.
> You can’t oppose intolerance with tolerance.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Isn't that what religions do, make moral judgements?


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> No he hasn’t. He just forgot to mention that he’s not that interested in sex and is also pretty ****ty at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you have talked with him. 

Please tell us all about it.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> And who is supposed to be ‘someone like her’?
> Again the kind of phrasing that’s thrown about here is positively demeaning.
> 
> Lets make no mistake, the religion is making a moral judgement of her past ‘behaviour’ in the first place. (otherwise she wouldn’t find it so hard to tell him). I’m simply stating that I don’t agree with this non sense.
> You can’t oppose intolerance with tolerance.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you read my next post I rephrased that part of my post. 

I believe I explained what meant to say in it. But if all you can do is ding me on this then go ahead. I admit I expressed myself poorly in that sentence. 

So you believe all Christians are intolerant. That to be a Christian makes it impossible to be anything else. Just because a Christian believes in the word of God. You see the Bible is pretty straight forward, black and white about things. So a Christian following the teachings of Christ is intolerant for doing so. 

Is this what you are saying?


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> No he hasn’t. He just forgot to mention that he’s not that interested in sex and is also pretty ****ty at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hard to know if you like it or are any good at it until you have a go at it right. 

So how was he to inform his virgin, o excuse me, experienced wife this?


----------



## ABHale

I think this is what you’re saying 

Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.

So a Christian standing up against sin is intolerant so should not be tolerated. 

Interesting point of view. So what else should be tolerated, drunk drivers I guess. Even though they kill people every day. Just a slap on the wrist you know. It’s not their fault they were drunk and killed someone. 

Shouldn’t we tolerate murder. There must be a reason they kill who they do. Wouldn’t it be intolerant to oppose them?

How about rapist?

How about those that play the knockout game?

Where is the line draw to what is or isn’t tolerated.


----------



## Mostlycontent

inmyprime said:


> I think if people didn’t compare having sex prior to marriage to being a drug addict, perhaps she wouldn’t have felt embarrassed about it in the first place and told him.
> I suppose admitting to not being a virgin anymore is akin to ‘damaged goods’ within that kind of society.
> She should move somewhere a bit more normal where she wouldn’t feel the need to hide this kind of stuff.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You can't possibly be that obtuse. Clearly, the example I chose was to show that if something is a big deal to someone, like having been a drug addict, and yet remains concealed, it is the wrong thing to do. You're free to choose whatever you may think is a big deal but yeast infections was not even remotely germane. If I know something is a big deal to a potential mate and yet I conceal it out of fear or whatever, then I was wrong for doing so. That is, of course, if I expect a truthful and honest relationship with that person. Would be rather difficult for me to be disappointed in the lack of honesty in my relationship when I was the probable cause of a lot of it.

Some people don't really care about someone's sexual past and others do, even if you don't think it reasonable. Fortunately, one individual doesn't get to decide what everyone thinks......and would you really want that anyway.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> I think this is what you’re saying
> 
> 
> 
> Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
> 
> 
> 
> So a Christian standing up against sin is intolerant so should not be tolerated.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting point of view. So what else should be tolerated, drunk drivers I guess. Even though they kill people every day. Just a slap on the wrist you know. It’s not their fault they were drunk and killed someone.
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn’t we tolerate murder. There must be a reason they kill who they do. Wouldn’t it be intolerant to oppose them?
> 
> 
> 
> How about rapist?
> 
> 
> 
> How about those that play the knockout game?
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line draw to what is or isn’t tolerated.




You are getting off topic. There are many ‘moral’ things in the bible that are not that moral anymore as society has evolved since. Morals are not absolutes. Most people don’t wait until marriage anymore to have sex, not because they are ‘sinners’ but because you want to actually try and find out if you compatible or not compatible as well as not wait for other reasons. So your whole premise that not remaining a virgin is somehow this ‘huge deal’ for a guy who really really needs to be the first to break his lady’s hymen (oh such a poor thing, this guy) is not what the current social norms are and yes, pretty much intolerant. In the past, it was also perfectly moral to put women inside a barrel with spikes inside and rolled down the hill for that kind of ‘sin’.

‘But the issue isn’t this, the issue is that she lied.’ And my point is that you can’t ignore this ‘lie’ without this ridiculous broader context.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> You are getting off topic. There are many ‘moral’ things in the bible that are not that moral anymore as society has evolved since. Morals are not absolutes. Most people don’t wait until marriage anymore to have sex, not because they are ‘sinners’ but because you want to actually try and find out if you compatible or not compatible as well as not wait for other reasons. So your whole premise that not remaining a virgin is somehow this ‘huge deal’ for a guy who really really needs to be the first to break his lady’s hymen (oh such a poor thing, this guy) is not what the current social norms are and yes, pretty much intolerant. In the past, it was also perfectly moral to put women inside a barrel with spikes inside and rolled down the hill for that kind of ‘sin’.
> 
> ‘But the issue isn’t this, the issue is that she lied.’ And my point is that you can’t ignore this ‘lie’ without this ridiculous broader context.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your intolerance astounds me.

There are many different models of sexual behaviour. You have yours, OP’s husband has his. 

There are many people who would disagree with your view of sexuality. And you not only disagree with them (which is fair enough) but you are prepared to decide they have no rights to their views (and that’s where you lose me).

I am happy to argue in another forum that promiscuity has a down sided but here its a threadjack. OP’s husband had been quite open about holding a view that many others hold, and OP could have just said she disagrees. Instead, she lied, and proposes to continue the lie.

It is a huge deal for this guy. It is not ok to lie because you disagree. It is cowardly.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> You are getting off topic. There are many ‘moral’ things in the bible that are not that moral anymore as society has evolved since. Morals are not absolutes. Most people don’t wait until marriage anymore to have sex, not because they are ‘sinners’ but because you want to actually try and find out if you compatible or not compatible as well as not wait for other reasons. So your whole premise that not remaining a virgin is somehow this ‘huge deal’ for a guy who really really needs to be the first to break his lady’s hymen (oh such a poor thing, this guy) is not what the current social norms are and yes, pretty much intolerant. In the past, it was also perfectly moral to put women inside a barrel with spikes inside and rolled down the hill for that kind of ‘sin’.
> 
> ‘But the issue isn’t this, the issue is that she lied.’ And my point is that you can’t ignore this ‘lie’ without this ridiculous broader context.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just because people are no longer following the word of God doesn’t mean they are not sinning. Premarital sex is a sin. Just because so many are doing it doesn’t make it not one. 

You keep putting words in my mouth. The only thing that I have said about OP is her lying. She purposely lying to her husband from the start. She would not be where she is today if it wasn’t for that lie. She has done this herself. This is all on her. 

The only thing you are doing is telling her she should blame her husband for all her problems, because he isn’t good in bed. You are the one that keeps bringing up her sexual past. That past is between herself and God.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> You are getting off topic. There are many ‘moral’ things in the bible that are not that moral anymore as society has evolved since. Morals are not absolutes. Most people don’t wait until marriage anymore to have sex, not because they are ‘sinners’ but because you want to actually try and find out if you compatible or not compatible as well as not wait for other reasons. So your whole premise that not remaining a virgin is somehow this ‘huge deal’ for a guy who really really needs to be the first to break his lady’s hymen (oh such a poor thing, this guy) is not what the current social norms are and yes, pretty much intolerant. In the past, it was also perfectly moral to put women inside a barrel with spikes inside and rolled down the hill for that kind of ‘sin’.
> 
> ‘But the issue isn’t this, the issue is that she lied.’ And my point is that you can’t ignore this ‘lie’ without this ridiculous broader context.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Bible or Word of God is absolute. It never changes, it’s black and white about what is or isn’t sin. 

Just because society changes it’s moral compass doesn’t mean God changes his point of view as well. What was sin when Christ walked the earth as man is still sin today. It doesn’t matter what society thinks. 

Just because you believe being a Christian is rediculous doesn’t make it so. But you are entitled to your opinion just like I am to mine.


----------



## ABHale

Inmyprime, 

you know a girl’s hymen can be broken from riding a bike, using a tampon and in other ways that don’t include sexual intimacy right. 

You are the only one that keeps bringing this up. All OP has said is that her husband was wanting until marriage and waited a wife that believed the same and was waiting as well. 

OP never said he came out and said “I want a virgin so I can pop her cheery (hymen). I must have a virgin”. Your are the one giving him these traits.


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> Your intolerance astounds me.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many different models of sexual behaviour. You have yours, OP’s husband has his.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many people who would disagree with your view of sexuality. And you not only disagree with them (which is fair enough) but you are prepared to decide they have no rights to their views (and that’s where you lose me).


No, that’s not what I’m doing actually. I have no problem him wanting to remain a virgin. He can remain a virgin till he’s 80 as far as I’m concerned. I’m having a problem with him and the small part of the Christian society (where she seems to be living) imposing their views and morals onto her. She clearly feels if she doesn’t abide by this, she will become an outcast and lying was done to assure her survival and if she can’t move somewhere else and stuck there, I don’t blame her for lying. If the nazis knocked on my door and asked me if me or anyone in my family was Jewish, I would lie too. And I would have absolutely not have any bad feelings about lying.

If you want to call this intolerance, go ahead but it’s an oxymoron: you can’t be intolerant of intolerance. That’s a double negative and means the opposite actually...





Wazza said:


> I am happy to argue in another forum that promiscuity has a down sided but here its a threadjack. OP’s husband had been quite open about holding a view that many others hold, and OP could have just said she disagrees. Instead, she lied, and proposes to continue the lie.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a huge deal for this guy. It is not ok to lie because you disagree. It is cowardly.



Why do you call this promiscuity; she had sex with people before she was married and before she was in a relationship with anyone. 

Imagine she posted this question instead: ‘my husband is going to dump me because he expects me to be a virgin before marriage’. Would you find that moral? It’s the whole premise and unreasonable expectation I disagree with.

I think the lying is a symptom of a suppressed and intolerant chunk of the society who think they are morally superior and tell everyone so. And if they want to stay that way, fine it’s up to them but they are pushing on this way of thinking as the morally superior way so by definition if there’s anyone who doesn’t think their way, becomes morally inferior. 

And that’s what i have a problem with. It’s maybe not as explicit but it’s implied and it runs through many stands of religious thinking. It’s this particular part that I find so toxic about religions. I like many other parts.

Anyway, we are never going to agree here and it makes absolutely no difference because she will do whatever she wants in the end. Judging her here will not suddenly make her change her mind about this.
So I will just agree to disagree and leave you people in peace. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

For me, it is not about sex specifically. It is about lying about any supposedly shared important value.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> No, that’s not what I’m doing actually. I have no problem him wanting to remain a virgin. He can remain a virgin till he’s 80 as far as I’m concerned. I’m having a problem with him and the small part of the Christian society (where she seems to be living) imposing their views and morals onto her. She clearly feels if she doesn’t abide by this, she will become an outcast and lying was done to assure her survival and if she can’t move somewhere else and stuck there, I don’t blame her for lying. If the nazis knocked on my door and asked me if me or anyone in my family was Jewish, I would lie too. And I would have absolutely not have any bad feelings about lying.
> 
> If you want to call this intolerance, go ahead but it’s an oxymoron: you can’t be intolerant of intolerance. That’s a double negative and means the opposite actually...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you call this promiscuity; she had sex with people before she was married and before she was in a relationship with anyone.
> 
> Imagine she posted this question instead: ‘my husband is going to dump me because he expects me to be a virgin before marriage’. Would you find that moral? It’s the whole premise and unreasonable expectation I disagree with.
> 
> I think the lying is a symptom of a suppressed and intolerant chunk of the society who think they are morally superior and tell everyone so. And if they want to stay that way, fine it’s up to them but they are pushing on this way of thinking as the morally superior way so by definition if there’s anyone who doesn’t think their way, becomes morally inferior.
> 
> And that’s what i have a problem with. It’s maybe not as explicit but it’s implied and it runs through many stands of religious thinking. It’s this particular part that I find so toxic about religions. I like many other parts.
> 
> Anyway, we are never going to agree here and it makes absolutely no difference because she will do whatever she wants in the end. Judging her here will not suddenly make her change her mind about this.
> So I will just agree to disagree and leave you people in peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How is her husband imposing his views in her. He was up front for the start by what OP has said. She could have left, in your opinion, his narrow minded beliefs at that point and never thought of him again. 

She chose to lie to him. 

She chose to start dating him. 

She chose to marry him. 

She chose to lie to and deceive her husband about who she really was. 

You know husbands might try and impose there point of view on there wives, give it a try and let me know how that works. :grin2:

Here you are saying her husband imposed on her. Wow talk about a narrow minded bigot. You honestly believe it’s her husband’s fault because he is a Christian.


----------



## ABHale

Now Christians are Nazis as well. 

There is no discussion with you. Your view of Christians prevents it.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> No, that’s not what I’m doing actually. I have no problem him wanting to remain a virgin. He can remain a virgin till he’s 80 as far as I’m concerned. I’m having a problem with him and the small part of the Christian society (where she seems to be living) imposing their views and morals onto her. She clearly feels if she doesn’t abide by this, she will become an outcast and lying was done to assure her survival and if she can’t move somewhere else and stuck there, I don’t blame her for lying. If the nazis knocked on my door and asked me if me or anyone in my family was Jewish, I would lie too. And I would have absolutely not have any bad feelings about lying.
> 
> If you want to call this intolerance, go ahead but it’s an oxymoron: you can’t be intolerant of intolerance. That’s a double negative and means the opposite actually...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you call this promiscuity; she had sex with people before she was married and before she was in a relationship with anyone.
> 
> *Imagine she posted this question instead: ‘my husband is going to dump me because he expects me to be a virgin before marriage’. Would you find that moral? It’s the whole premise and unreasonable expectation I disagree with.*
> 
> I think the lying is a symptom of a suppressed and intolerant chunk of the society who think they are morally superior and tell everyone so. And if they want to stay that way, fine it’s up to them but they are pushing on this way of thinking as the morally superior way so by definition if there’s anyone who doesn’t think their way, becomes morally inferior.
> 
> And that’s what i have a problem with. It’s maybe not as explicit but it’s implied and it runs through many stands of religious thinking. It’s this particular part that I find so toxic about religions. I like many other parts.
> 
> Anyway, we are never going to agree here and it makes absolutely no difference because she will do whatever she wants in the end. Judging her here will not suddenly make her change her mind about this.
> So I will just agree to disagree and leave you people in peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That isn’t the case though is it. Also if this hypothetical case was it, if she lied to her husband at first like OP has. Then he would have ever right to divorce his lying wife. Their whole relationship would be nothing but a lie.


----------



## personofinterest

> I’m having a problem with him and the small part of the Christian society (where she seems to be living) imposing their views and morals onto her.


Here's the deal for those so clouded with indignation that they have no reading comprehension

SHE professed these same beliefs and was ASHAMED that she had broken them. Not because someone castigated her - because SHE WANTED to have kept them. SHE wishes she had kept them because those are her beliefs.

ENOUGH with the virgin shaming. Good lord. The OP herself wishes she had remained a virgin.

ENOUGH

We get it. You don't like Christians and their beliefs. Get over it.


----------



## syhoybenden

Methinks certain ladies are feeling some discomfort with this issue since it perhaps hits a little too close to home for them.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Does she live in the SE USA?


----------



## personofinterest

syhoybenden said:


> Methinks certain ladies are feeling some discomfort with this issue since it perhaps hits a little too close to home for them.


Methinks this lady who was a virgin when she married is tired of the "virgin shaming" rhetoric.

But nice try


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> Does she live in the SE USA?


Why does this matter?


----------



## PigglyWiggly

personofinterest said:


> Why does this matter?


I just wondered if she had the very real concern of being outcast and ostracized by the religious community for not being a virgin. I've seen some evangelicals go absolutely crazy about sex topics as if they were the offended god themselves


----------



## personofinterest

PigglyWiggly said:


> I just wondered if she had the very real concern of being outcast and ostracized by the religious community for not being a virgin. I've seen some evangelicals go absolutely crazy about sex topics as if they were the offended god themselves


That's what I figured. Legalism and self-righteousness is not limited to the southeast (just like racism and ******** aren't).


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> Methinks this lady who was a virgin when she married is tired of the "virgin shaming" rhetoric.
> 
> But nice try


Why would anyone shame someone for choosing to keep their virginity? There is no higher honor for a man than to be her first.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

personofinterest said:


> That's what I figured. Legalism and self-righteousness is not limited to the southeast (just like racism and ******** aren't).


agreed, that is just where I see the most complaints come from on r/exChristian.


----------



## Wazza

personofinterest said:


> That's what I figured. Legalism and self-righteousness is not limited to the southeast (just like racism and ******** aren't).


So how does she come clean while minimising all that stuff?

It seems to me her choices are very normal and she has every right to them. She just needs to get to the point where she can be honest about who she is. Is that impossible?


----------



## PigglyWiggly

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why would anyone shame someone for choosing to keep their virginity? *There is no higher honor for a man than to be her first.*


I'd rather be her best. To each his own.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

PigglyWiggly said:


> I'd rather be her best. To each his own.


My respect for women grow with the less partners they've had. Just me, I'm not religious or anything.


----------



## JustTheWife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My respect for women grow with the less partners they've had. Just me, I'm not religious or anything.


I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


Why do you think they wouldn't admit it?


----------



## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


Dear, even if they do, that should not be your concern. 

Some people feel that way and that is their business. But you should not feel that way. 

The problem is that your life, and your sex life is basically on hold until you tell him and start feeling free to discuss sex with him. 

If you think you are suffering for Jesus, let me assure you, you are not. You are just suffering. 

Your husband deserves the truth and you deserve to not feel bad about yourself. 

If you believe in Christ then believe this: 


Philippians 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."​
You can tell him. You need to do it for him, and you need to do it for you.


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


We’re not always smart, but sometimes we might surprise you with what we can work through. 

My wife went as far as an actual affair while married and we are still together. Certainly for some guys the sex is the issue in an affair, but for me the lies were the hard thing to get over. 

That’s probably what interests me about your thread. You are probably a bit like her. She was brought up religious and had the rebellious phase too. I believe it’s pretty normal.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

If you tell him, it won't go over very well. I can tell you that. I'm in a relationship with someone and I took her virginity. If she came out years later and told me, she really wasn't. I'd probably break up with her. But we aren't married...yet. If I was married, had kids and all that lot, then I likely wouldn't divorce her over it, but I'd be very angry. I really don't see any upside of telling him, honestly.


----------



## Yeswecan

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


I concur. However I would admit it if asked.


----------



## JustTheWife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> If you tell him, it won't go over very well. I can tell you that. I'm in a relationship with someone and I took her virginity. If she came out years later and told me, she really wasn't. I'd probably break up with her. But we aren't married...yet. If I was married, had kids and all that lot, then I likely wouldn't divorce her over it, but I'd be very angry. I really don't see any upside of telling him, honestly.


That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


I am willing to bet big money he will get over it much quicker than you think. You are making it into a too big a deal in your head.


----------



## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


You know, as we become adults, we learn. Most people, I hope, learn how to be genuine people. Some don't, I guess many don't. 

But here, you have a choice. You can live in fear, or you can life in freedom, what ever that looks like. 

Now, you said that you are a christen, if I am not mistaken. So if we look a christen doctrine, it tells us many things.



> Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 1 John 3:18





> I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. 3 John 1:4


There are many others that speak of truth. Now if you are not a christen then just blow that stuff off. 

Here is the bottom line. Right now you are miserable, you live in fear of being discovered, you live in fear of your husband leaving you, part of you fears that he might stay with you if you were truthful. You sex life sucks at a time in your life when it should be wondrous. 

So you can be honest with you H about everything and he might divorce you. OK, but you know what, he might love you enough to give you a chance. He might be smart enough to understand that he is not getting the job done in bed, and step up his game. 

There are a lot of things that could happen, but one thing is for sure... If you continue to live this lie, you will continue to be miserable. 

Think about that for a minute. Because as someone who is older, that stayed in a marriage that was not good, I can tell you... You never get that time back. Never...


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

I usually agree with Blues, but playing it out in my mind, I can't see that conversation going well. I see this happening:

You: Hey, Hubby, so there is something I need to be honest with you about.

Him: Sure, honey.

You: Well, ok I'll just say it. I wasn't really a virgin when we met.

Him: What??? What are you talking about? You said you were!

You: Yea, well I had a rebellious phase when I was young and had some casual sex with some guys.

Him: How many were there?!?

You: XX

Him: Who are you? I'm leaving. I have to get some air and do some thinking.

You: I'm so sorry. I just hated keeping the secret and felt you need to know. And who knows maybe our sex life will improve!

Him: Whats wrong with our sex life?!??

You: Well, Guy #3 did this and Guy #5 did that, and you know I like those things and maybe...

Him: <Jumps in front of a moving vehicle>

This is probably a little hyperbole on my part, but you get the point. So, effectively all she did was transfer her guilt and sadness onto him. Now its his problem to handle. 
A) His wife is now a **** (I mean that will be his first reaction, even though she isn't now)
B) His wife is a liar and a good one 
C) His wife has emasculated him be telling him that his sex skills aren't up to par

Its like one of those things you want to know but really don't want to know. Assuming there is no way he'd ever find out, which I'd say is a safe assumption, then I just don't see any good this will do for either one of them. Maybe he will get over it, maybe I'm completely wrong, but I would still feel betrayed, almost like finding your wife had an affair or something. I just don't know how she has that conversation without the marital bond taking major damage.


----------



## BluesPower

I get what you are saying, I really do. And if you remember I did say the he might leave you. 

But here is the thing, while opinions vary, should we tell people what they want to her, even if it keeps them in fear and bondage? Should we tell them things that will keep them in an unhealthy situation? 

Or should we tell them, the truth. The truth is, morally that she should tell him, and come clean. It may end her marriage, but right now, she is miserable. My opinion is that she should summon her courage, and come clean about everything so that she can get out of bondage and fear. 

Some people might have a different opinion, but she is saying that she is scared to tell him. And she hopes that it never gets out. So, I say tell the truth, if the marriage ends, at least she can start a new and honest life. 



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I usually agree with Blues, but playing it out in my mind, I can't see that conversation going well. I see this happening:
> 
> You: Hey, Hubby, so there is something I need to be honest with you about.
> 
> Him: Sure, honey.
> 
> You: Well, ok I'll just say it. I wasn't really a virgin when we met.
> 
> Him: What??? What are you talking about? You said you were!
> 
> You: Yea, well I had a rebellious phase when I was young and had some casual sex with some guys.
> 
> Him: How many were there?!?
> 
> You: XX
> 
> Him: Who are you? I'm leaving. I have to get some air and do some thinking.
> 
> You: I'm so sorry. I just hated keeping the secret and felt you need to know. And who knows maybe our sex life will improve!
> 
> Him: Whats wrong with our sex life?!??
> 
> You: Well, Guy #3 did this and Guy #5 did that, and you know I like those things and maybe...
> 
> Him: <Jumps in front of a moving vehicle>
> 
> This is probably a little hyperbole on my part, but you get the point. So, effectively all she did was transfer her guilt and sadness onto him. Now its his problem to handle.
> A) His wife is now a **** (I mean that will be his first reaction, even though she isn't now)
> B) His wife is a liar and a good one
> C) His wife has emasculated him be telling him that his sex skills aren't up to par
> 
> Its like one of those things you want to know but really don't want to know. Assuming there is no way he'd ever find out, which I'd say is a safe assumption, then I just don't see any good this will do for either one of them. Maybe he will get over it, maybe I'm completely wrong, but I would still feel betrayed, almost like finding your wife had an affair or something. I just don't know how she has that conversation without the marital bond taking major damage.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

double post...


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.





UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My respect for women grow with the less partners they've had. Just me, I'm not religious or anything.


I feel the same with men too! Seems like so many men will lie, do whatever it takes for sex, without regard to the woman.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

PigglyWiggly said:


> I'd rather be her best. To each his own.


 If you are married and you were her first, you would be her best, unless she's a cheater.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I heard god say the other day that it’s not cool that some guys try to shame women for not remaining a virgin till it suits them. Not cool at all. (What, I can’t have voices in my head too? )
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where does the bible say that exactly? Everything God says is in line with His word. 

Its not about shaming ,its about marrying someone who feels the same way you do about sex. If you aren't bothered about how many sexual partners your partner has had then that's fine. If you are, then that's fine. For many its important that they marry a virgin. 
Its the lying and deception that is wrong. 

Honesty is vital in a marriage.


----------



## Diana7

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My respect for women grow with the less partners they've had. Just me, I'm not religious or anything.


I am the same with men. I so respect my husband for never having sex outside marriage. 

We should all have that right to know how many partners, if any, our other half has had. If they refuse to tell us, well that says a lot. Firstly they may have had a lot, and secondly they are not being honest and truthful. Both are no no's for me.


----------



## Tiggy!

Rubix Cubed said:


> * If you are married and you were her first, you would be her best*, unless she's a cheater.


You'd also be her worst :surprise:


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> Rubix Cubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> * If you are married and you were her first, you would be her best*, unless she's a cheater.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd also be her worst <a href="http://cdn.talkaboutmarriage.net/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>
Click to expand...


Aren't you a glass half empty type lol


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


I know you’re confused right now JTW. We have all done things in our past. My wife is like your husband. She grew up in a Christian home. Actually lived the life. I told her about things in my past and it turned out ok. Then we waited until our wedding night. 

I wish the best for you JTW. I don’t think you will find any peace until you talk it out with your husband.


----------



## Satya

OP, you posted the issue on January 20th.

We're now at May 8th.

That's close to 4 months with a thread of ~875 pages (Tapatalk) worth of advice. And that doesn't count the amount of additional time prior that you held back the truth since marrying. 

You aren't telling him, are you? Because if you were going to tell him, you'd have done it. Just be honest with yourself. You don't owe any of us anything. You're really no farther than you were when you posted, IMO. Just go be a great married wife and be prepared for the fallout when the truth surfaces. It's just a matter of when.


----------



## personofinterest

Satya said:


> OP, you posted the issue on January 20th.
> 
> We're now at May 8th.
> 
> That's close to 4 months with a thread of ~875 pages (Tapatalk) worth of advice. And that doesn't count the amount of additional time prior that you held back the truth since marrying.
> 
> You aren't telling him, are you? Because if you were going to tell him, you'd have done it. Just be honest with yourself. You don't owe any of us anything. You're really no farther than you were when you posted, IMO. Just go be a great married wife and be prepared for the fallout when the truth surfaces. It's just a matter of when.


Unless you're a mindreader, this is just passive aggressive guilting. I mean, look at the response from almost everyone on this thread. The idea of confessing this has got to be terrifying. I think the OP will tell her husband, but I think she will have to wrestle inwardly and then steel herself to do it. I mean, this isn;t even MY problem, and I feel nauseous every time I read the thread. And I was a virgin on my wedding night!

Honestly, it's people like the OP who really DON'T have a safe place to go online. Not really. 

And yes, I think it was wrong to lie, and yes, I think she should come clean. I just happen to have the capacity to believe those things without treating her like the feces on the bottom of a shoe.


----------



## Townes

The conservative preacher Mark Driscoll found out his wife wasn't a virgin when they got married. He huffed and puffed and shamed her mercilessly, but they're still married. You might find their story interesting. The full story is in a marriage book he wrote. I am most definitely not endorsing anything from this guy btw. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mark-driscolls-sex-manual-real-marriage-scandalizes-evangelicals


----------



## personofinterest

> He huffed and puffed and shamed her mercilessly


Does he still do that? Is it still the trump card he holds over her?


----------



## Townes

personofinterest said:


> Does he still do that? Is it still the trump card he holds over her?


As far as I know, he doesn't do it publicly anymore. He was brutal even from the pulpit about it. I imagine it's something that permanently shifted the power dynamic in their relationship, and I don't see him giving that up. He had a real public fall from grace though, so maybe he acquired some humility and forgiveness along the way.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Townes said:


> The conservative preacher Mark Driscoll found out his wife wasn't a virgin when they got married. He huffed and puffed and shamed her mercilessly, but they're still married. You might find their story interesting. The full story is in a marriage book he wrote. I am most definitely not endorsing anything from this guy btw.
> 
> https://www.thedailybeast.com/mark-driscolls-sex-manual-real-marriage-scandalizes-evangelicals


I am ashamed to have clicked that link. Good gracious, how many people buy into nonsense like that man wrote? I have ZERO evidence but i am irrationally convinced that half these men who must have a virgin are concerned that if she isn't a virgin, she will know how bad they suck in bed.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


Yes, I think you don't understand. 

Let me construct a hypothetical scenario for Jack and Jill....

Jack is arriving at marriage a virgin. He is very apprehensive about whether he will be enjoyed by his wife, he feels the only chance he has of actually being "good" for her, is if she has no experience....like him....

Jill had sex one time before her marriage. She and Beefcake climbed into the back seat and got it on. Beefcake was well-endowed, experienced at sex, had remarkably good looks, and made good money.

I don't think these are "part truths":

Jill had sex before marriage.
Jill had sex once before marriage.

They are whole truth. They tell the truth about the germane facts regarding Jill's failing to arrive at her marriage a virgin. These are the truths that Jack must forgive Jill for, if they are to have a continuing happy marriage.

The following are also "truths":

His name was Beefcake
we did it in the back seat of his car
he was well-endowed
he was experienced at sex
he was good-looking
he made good money

Of all these truths, only the "we did it" is germane, and it is the only aspect of these truths for which Jill can be forgiven. All of the other truths
are not actions of Jill, therefore, neither God, nor Jack, can apply the principles of forgiveness to them.

However, these truths can hurt Jack deeply. He's not experienced at sex, he's only working with what he learned in a "non-hands-on" scenario, and then, from information which is of dubious quality and value. 

Jack will have to "forgive himself" for not measuring up to his wife's expectations. I have to admit, that "forgiving myself" seems quite impossible, I think it may even BE impossible. He also cannot seek God about this, because he has learned from his religious training that God "doesn't make mistakes". Jack is therefore, "what God created him to be".....and his attempts to escape this judgement are futile.....his efforts will only fail....

Even though these are "truths", they do not serve to "build up"....neither would they be spoken "in love"..

If Jack forgives Jill for the two germane truths, they go away from the marriage and will not return.

Since Jack cannot "forgive" these other truths, there is no way for him to ever remove them from being permanently imprinted on his psyche. He will simply have to "live with" whatever of these truths he learns.

It therefore, serves no purpose to volunteer these truths, nor to answer in "truthfulness" if you are asked....an answer of "...I'm not going to reply to that question, nor to any rephrased question you ever ask me on that subject..." can be a completely whole truth.

There is a recovery method which can be applied. Jill must forgive Jack for not meeting her desires. And Jill must forgive, in this sense, like God forgives.... God not only decides to not consider our past bad actions when He interfaces us, He "sets the bar" to a "height" which is within our current envelope of capability, and He tells us how pleased He is that we jumped 2-1/2 feet today.....

My beloved young sister in Christ.... it is a high calling you must follow....but God will be there in your every step, and in your every rest....


----------



## Townes

PigglyWiggly said:


> I am ashamed to have clicked that link. Good gracious, how many people buy into nonsense like that man wrote? I have ZERO evidence but i am irrationally convinced that half these men who must have a virgin are concerned that if she isn't a virgin, she will know how bad they suck in bed.


Haha, you might be right about that theory. He had/has a huge following. His church in Seattle averaged 12,000 a weekend. Sold a ton of books and was huge on the Christian conference circuit. Scary.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

TJW said:


> Yes, I think you don't understand.
> 
> Let me construct a hypothetical scenario for Jack and Jill....
> 
> Jack is arriving at marriage a virgin. He is very apprehensive about whether he will be enjoyed by his wife, he feels the only chance he has of actually being "good" for her, is if she has no experience....like him....
> 
> Jill had sex one time before her marriage. She and Beefcake climbed into the back seat and got it on. Beefcake was well-endowed, experienced at sex, had remarkably good looks, and made good money.
> 
> I don't think these are "part truths":
> 
> Jill had sex before marriage.
> Jill had sex once before marriage.
> 
> They are whole truth. They tell the truth about the germane facts regarding Jill's failing to arrive at her marriage a virgin. These are the truths that Jack must forgive Jill for, if they are to have a continuing happy marriage.
> 
> The following are also "truths":
> 
> His name was Beefcake
> we did it in the back seat of his car
> he was well-endowed
> he was experienced at sex
> he was good-looking
> he made good money
> 
> Of all these truths, only the "we did it" is germane, and it is the only aspect of these truths for which Jill can be forgiven. All of the other truths
> are not actions of Jill, therefore, neither God, nor Jack, can apply the principles of forgiveness to them.
> 
> However, these truths can hurt Jack deeply. He's not experienced at sex, he's only working with what he learned in a "non-hands-on" scenario, and then, from information which is of dubious quality and value.
> 
> Jack will have to "forgive himself" for not measuring up to his wife's expectations. I have to admit, that "forgiving myself" seems quite impossible, I think it may even BE impossible. He also cannot seek God about this, because he has learned from his religious training that God "doesn't make mistakes". Jack is therefore, "what God created him to be".....and his attempts to escape this judgement are futile.....his efforts will only fail....
> 
> Even though these are "truths", they do not serve to "build up".
> 
> If Jack forgives Jill for the two germane truths, they go away from the marriage and will not return.
> Since Jack cannot "forgive" these other truths, there is no way for him to ever remove him from being permanently imprinted on his psyche.
> He will simply have to "live with" whatever of these truths he learns.


I like the way you stated that.

In other news, my wife and i call mutual masturbation Jack and Jill ie: "let's go Jack and Jill!"


----------



## JustTheWife

TJW said:


> Yes, I think you don't understand.
> 
> Let me construct a hypothetical scenario for Jack and Jill....
> 
> Jack is arriving at marriage a virgin. He is very apprehensive about whether he will be enjoyed by his wife, he feels the only chance he has of actually being "good" for her, is if she has no experience....like him....
> 
> Jill had sex one time before her marriage. She and Beefcake climbed into the back seat and got it on. Beefcake was well-endowed, experienced at sex, had remarkably good looks, and made good money.
> 
> I don't think these are "part truths":
> 
> Jill had sex before marriage.
> Jill had sex once before marriage.
> 
> They are whole truth. They tell the truth about the germane facts regarding Jill's failing to arrive at her marriage a virgin. These are the truths that Jack must forgive Jill for, if they are to have a continuing happy marriage.
> 
> The following are also "truths":
> 
> His name was Beefcake
> we did it in the back seat of his car
> he was well-endowed
> he was experienced at sex
> he was good-looking
> he made good money
> 
> Of all these truths, only the "we did it" is germane, and it is the only aspect of these truths for which Jill can be forgiven. All of the other truths
> are not actions of Jill, therefore, neither God, nor Jack, can apply the principles of forgiveness to them.
> 
> However, these truths can hurt Jack deeply. He's not experienced at sex, he's only working with what he learned in a "non-hands-on" scenario, and then, from information which is of dubious quality and value.
> 
> Jack will have to "forgive himself" for not measuring up to his wife's expectations. I have to admit, that "forgiving myself" seems quite impossible, I think it may even BE impossible. He also cannot seek God about this, because he has learned from his religious training that God "doesn't make mistakes". Jack is therefore, "what God created him to be".....and his attempts to escape this judgement are futile.....his efforts will only fail....
> 
> Even though these are "truths", they do not serve to "build up"....neither would they be spoken "in love"..
> 
> If Jack forgives Jill for the two germane truths, they go away from the marriage and will not return.
> 
> Since Jack cannot "forgive" these other truths, there is no way for him to ever remove them from being permanently imprinted on his psyche. He will simply have to "live with" whatever of these truths he learns.
> 
> It therefore, serves no purpose to volunteer these truths, nor to answer in "truthfulness" if you are asked....an answer of "...I'm not going to reply to that question, nor to any rephrased question you ever ask me on that subject..." can be a completely whole truth.
> 
> There is a recovery method which can be applied. Jill must forgive Jack for not meeting her desires. And Jill must forgive, in this sense, like God forgives.... God not only decides to not consider our past bad actions when He interfaces us, He "sets the bar" to a "height" which is within our current envelope of capability, and He tells us how pleased He is that we jumped 2-1/2 feet today.....
> 
> My beloved young sister in Christ.... it is a high calling you must follow....but God will be there in your every step, and in your every rest....


I understand what you are saying but I think it would be cruel to tell him that I had sex with other guys but won't say (if he wants to know):

how many guys it was
How big these penises were
How they did me
If we did oral or anal
Did they wear rubbers?
Where did they "finish"
Were there any who were strangers

I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him

I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


----------



## 269370

Holy moly! You don't need to say ANY of those things. You didn't CHEAT on him to have to provide that kind of disclosure, you had sex with men BEFORE him. You can just say that you made a mistake by making him think that you were a virgin, that's all.
None of the rest is his business. Even the virgin thing is none of his business. You could have just said it there and then that it's not his business to know or you could have just not said anything at all.
I still think it's fine to just not talk about it until it comes up and if it does come up then keep it to a minimum. 
I can't understand who cares in this day and age about these things, how big the penises were....seriously.
I really don't think this is the right site for you. 
You do understand you have a right to have a past, right?



JustTheWife said:


> I understand what you are saying but I think it would be cruel to tell him that I had sex with other guys but won't say (if he wants to know):
> 
> how many guys it was
> How big these penises were
> How they did me
> If we did oral or anal
> Did they wear rubbers?
> Where did they "finish"
> Were there any who were strangers
> 
> I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him
> 
> I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


----------



## Diana7

You just need to tell him that before you met you had sex with many men and that you lied about being a virgin. If he wants to know more than tell him, otherwise don't go into details. Some would want to know more and some wouldn't. 

However, you are putting it off and that will only make it harder and harder. You could even write it in a letter if its too hard to say it. 

I dont agree with people who says its not our business to know what our spouses did before we met. I would want to know about their past sexual partners just as I would want to know other things. Such as have they been married before. Have they got children. Why did their marriage end. Have they ever had any serious financial problems in the past. Have they got any medical issues. 

All these things are very important and if we are marrying someone then complete honesty and openness are vital.


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> I understand what you are saying but I think it would be cruel to tell him that I had sex with other guys but won't say (if he wants to know):
> 
> how many guys it was
> How big these penises were
> How they did me
> If we did oral or anal
> Did they wear rubbers?
> Where did they "finish"
> Were there any who were strangers
> 
> I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him
> 
> I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


Which of these things do you think are unusual? They all look pretty normal to me.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> Holy moly! You don't need to say ANY of those things. You didn't CHEAT on him to have to provide that kind of disclosure, you had sex with men BEFORE him. You can just say that you made a mistake by making him think that you were a virgin, that's all.
> None of the rest is his business. Even the virgin thing is none of his business. You could have just said it there and then that it's not his business to know or you could have just not said anything at all.
> I still think it's fine to just not talk about it until it comes up and if it does come up then keep it to a minimum.
> I can't understand who cares in this day and age about these things, how big the penises were....seriously.
> I really don't think this is the right site for you.
> You do understand you have a right to have a past, right?


I would absolutely agree with this, except that the topic did come up. You have a responsibility to correct the lie. Once that is done, how much you tell is your choice.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I understand what you are saying but I think it would be cruel to tell him that I had sex with other guys but won't say (if he wants to know):
> 
> how many guys it was
> How big these penises were
> How they did me
> If we did oral or anal
> Did they wear rubbers?
> Where did they "finish"
> Were there any who were strangers
> 
> I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him
> 
> I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


Firstly, let me congratulate you wholeheartedly, for your terrific insight to the male ego. You are pretty unique in this respect, I have met very few women who have this kind of understanding. This understanding will make you a FABULOUS Christian wife to your husband.

As to stuff like that, yes, I agree. This is the reason why I have suggested to you from the beginning of your thread, and I will again suggest, that you "tell him" in the presence of a professional therapist. 

And, I also agree that _if he asks[/i/ you have no option but to tell him the truth. My prayer and hope is that your therapist will "throw the irrelevant flag" and teach your husband that there are things he should not ask. Rather than ask you, your therapist should instruct your husband to put the answer to his unspoken question into the hands of God, and trust that whatever your answer would have been, the TRUTH is that you, with the providence of God Himself, have put those details of your past behind you and under the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. And, the TRUTH is, that those details of your past do not, and can not, affect his relationship to you as his wife in the slightest degree.

The TRUTH that he must know is this: that he is able to learn to please you sexually, within a context where there is no condemnation, no comparison to other men, in other words, your marital bed is a place of SAFETY, in which God resides every bit as much as He resides in every other room in your house. He has the "freedom" to screw up, make mistakes, fumble, and fail, and know that on the other side of his failure is a wife who loves him totally and accepts him JUST AS HE IS.

May God add His blessing.

I believe that this is the "key" to success for your marriage, and I also believe that your marriage CAN BE just as if none of those things even occurred at all in your past. This, I believe, is the message of God's word, the bible._


----------



## Truthseeker1

TJW said:


> And, I also agree that _if he asks[/i/ you have no option but to tell him the truth. My prayer and hope is that your therapist will "throw the irrelevant flag" and teach your husband that there are things he should not ask. Rather than ask you, your therapist should instruct your husband to put the answer to his unspoken question into the hands of God, and trust that whatever your answer would have been, the TRUTH is that you, with the providence of God Himself, have put those details of your past behind you and under the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. And, the TRUTH is, that those details of your past do not, and can not, affect his relationship to you as his wife in the slightest degree.
> 
> _


_

So in other words continue to keep him in the dark because God? Holding back the truth to land a spouse is wrong._


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Truthseeker1 said:


> So in other words continue to keep him in the dark because God? Holding back the truth to land a spouse is wrong.


So much for becoming "one" with one another. I get the whole, "Go forth and sin no more.." But seriously, Not telling the truth and being open and honest in ANY part of marriage will be a deal breaker. No bueno.

I DO think there is a way to maybe use a little literary finesse when discussing sexual pasts. I personally wouldn't want to hear that my spouse rode the C*ck Carousel and has more DNA implanted in her than the Genome Project vault. But hey, thats just me. But at the same time, you can "walk" your partner into a discussion that includes you not finding "Mr. Right". And Many things that your partner does the best and that you want to continue. Make him the top of the pile....So to speak.


----------



## Truthseeker1

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So much for becoming "one" with one another. I get the whole, "Go forth and sin no more.." But seriously, Not telling the truth and being open and honest in ANY part of marriage will be a deal breaker. No bueno.
> 
> I DO think there is a way to maybe use a little literary finesse when discussing sexual pasts. I personally wouldn't want to hear that my spouse rode the C*ck Carousel and has more DNA implanted in her than the Genome Project vault. But hey, thats just me. But at the same time, you can "walk" your partner into a discussion that includes you not finding "Mr. Right". And Many things that your partner does the best and that you want to continue. Make him the top of the pile....So to speak.


This topic gets me so frustrated. Many people men and women save themselves for marriage and want a spouse who has done the same. *There is nothing wrong with that!!* Some are willing to overlook a partners sexual past if they fall in love. Whats important is that there is honesty before marriage and the person is honest about their past. You don't lie to land a "nice religious spouse". That's selfish and cruel to me. It is making a fool of the person you are going to marry. Then when their past is exposed after the years of lies the spouse is not supposed to be angry or feel betrayed. The general consensus especially if the betrayed spouse is a man is they have to suck it up and have no right to be angry. I've seen it here on other threads. Do they attack the spouse who is lied to if they dare get angry. How can you trust your spouse again if they based your marriage on a lie?


----------



## TJW

Truthseeker1 said:


> So in other words continue to keep him in the dark because God? Holding back the truth to land a spouse is wrong.


I haven't suggested anywhere to keep her spouse in the dark. In fact, I have been a proponent of exposing the complete truth.

I agree that holding back truth to land a spouse is fraud. This is a grievous sin, one which must be repented of, and forsaken, in order to receive God's forgiveness....and, the forgiveness of the lied-to spouse.

But I also think there's a right way, and a wrong way, to carry out the confession. A very hurtful way could be chosen, or a less hurtful way could be chosen. A way which will, quite predictably, bring a very bitter end to the marriage, can be chosen. Or, a way which has an ultimate chance of repair and restoration of the marriage, can be chosen.

Just now, in this marriage, there's "an elephant in the room". Both of these people know the elephant is there, but they are living in denial of the elephant being visible to the other person. The reason both of them are choosing this denial is fear.


----------



## Steelman

If you are happy and everything is going well, I wouldn't tell him a darn thing in this case...... but I could be wrong for some reason as I'm not going to read 60 pages of this. Some things are better left unsaid.


----------



## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> You just need to tell him that before you met *you had sex with many men* and that you lied about being a virgin.


No - you don't need to say this in order to be honest. You can just say you weren't a virgin when you married. Period.


----------



## personofinterest

Truthseeker1 said:


> So in other words continue to keep him in the dark because God? Holding back the truth to land a spouse is wrong.


Apparently you didn't read the whole post......


----------



## Truthseeker1

personofinterest said:


> Apparently you didn't read the whole post......


I did...and what if he asks for details? Does she continue to lie?


----------



## Truthseeker1

TJW said:


> I haven't suggested anywhere to keep her spouse in the dark. In fact, I have been a proponent of exposing the complete truth.
> 
> I agree that holding back truth to land a spouse is fraud. This is a grievous sin, one which must be repented of, and forsaken, in order to receive God's forgiveness....and, the forgiveness of the lied-to spouse.
> 
> But I also think there's a right way, and a wrong way, to carry out the confession. A very hurtful way could be chosen, or a less hurtful way could be chosen. A way which will, quite predictably, bring a very bitter end to the marriage, can be chosen. Or, a way which has an ultimate chance of repair and restoration of the marriage, can be chosen.
> 
> Just now, in this marriage, there's "an elephant in the room". Both of these people know the elephant is there, but they are living in denial of the elephant being visible to the other person. The reason both of them are choosing this denial is fear.


What id he does ask for details? What would you counsel?


----------



## TJW

Truthseeker1 said:


> What id he does ask for details? What would you counsel?


This is why I advised her to secure the services of a professional therapist. A competent therapist would instruct her husband to not ask questions which have no relevance to his marriage, and which, if answered, may result in damage to his marriage.

If, for some reason, he refuses this advice, and asks anyway, the OP should reply "...our professional therapist has advised BOTH of us that this is not a question which should be asked, by you, nor should it be answered, by me. I am not willing to discuss these details, for that reason. If you absolutely insist upon knowing the answer, we can go back to the therapist's office, tell him/her what question is being asked, and ask for his/her approval to answer."

For now, I'll answer this way.... "....I love you, respect you, admire you, and desire you as my husband, above any, and all, other men I know, or have known. And, I love, respect, admire, and desire you JUST AS YOU ARE. I am ready to be, right now, your loving, accepting, nurturing, and supporting wife, until this marriage ends with one of us dying. I absolutely and unequivocally reject, and forsake, every other man whom I have known, or whom I may come to know. I do this willingly because I KNOW that you and I will have a marriage which is complete, satisfying, and fulfilling, accomplishing every word which God has given."


----------



## Truthseeker1

TJW said:


> This is why I advised her to secure the services of a professional therapist. A competent therapist would instruct her husband to not ask questions which have no relevance to his marriage, and which, if answered, may result in damage to his marriage.
> 
> If, for some reason, he refuses this advice, and asks anyway, the OP should reply "...our professional therapist has advised BOTH of us that this is not a question which should be asked, by you, nor should it be answered, by me. I am not willing to discuss these details, for that reason. If you absolutely insist upon knowing the answer, we can go back to the therapist's office, tell him/her what question is being asked, and ask for his/her approval to answer."


So in other words keep him in the dark and keep the full truth from him but just use a therapist to do it? and her H is supposed to be ok with that?


----------



## personofinterest

Truthseeker1 said:


> I did...and what if he asks for details? Does she continue to lie?


I think every question should be answered honestly, but as kindly as possible. Problem is, she probably isn't going to remember everything. If he asks about the sizes of all the men...I mean, I don't really care who believes it or not, a woman is NOT gonna remember all that. No, she's not.

The problem with trying to answer these questions is that the kind of man who needs to ask them probably won't believe the answers.


----------



## minimalME

personofinterest said:


> If he asks about the sizes of all the men...


What a ridiculous question for any man to ask in any situation. Totally none of anyone's business and completely irrelevant to the health of a current relationship.

This is nothing more than morbid curiosity, and I'd cut if off with no hesitation. 

If a guy wants to walk because a woman refuses to be subjected to this nonsense, let him.


----------



## Truthseeker1

personofinterest said:


> I think every question should be answered honestly, but as kindly as possible. Problem is, she probably isn't going to remember everything. If he asks about the sizes of all the men...I mean, I don't really care who believes it or not, a woman is NOT gonna remember all that. No, she's not.
> 
> The problem with trying to answer these questions is that the kind of man who needs to ask them probably won't believe the answers.


I agree. Whats frustrating is the guy was married not knowing the full truth and there are those who think he shouldn't be too p!ssed off about it. To some people sexual purity is important and its not ok to lie to them so you can marry them. I noticed men who are virgins who get duped like this received merciless judgment whenthey are not happy about being duped.


----------



## BluesPower

minimalME said:


> What a ridiculous question for any man to ask in any situation. Totally none of anyone's business and completely irrelevant to the health of a current relationship.
> 
> This is nothing more than morbid curiosity, and I'd cut if off with no hesitation.
> 
> If a guy wants to walk because a woman refuses to be subjected to this nonsense, let him.


First off, sexually insecure men are going to ask this question. They just are. 

But is really does not matter what we say. And all the discussion is kind of moot. 

She is to afraid to tell him anyway. So she will either suffer with the lie and the current poor sex, or it will come to light and then who knows what will happen...


----------



## personofinterest

Truthseeker1 said:


> I agree. Whats frustrating is the guy was married not knowing the full truth and there are those who think he shouldn't be too p!ssed off about it. To some people sexual purity is important and its not ok to lie to them so you can marry them. I noticed men who are virgins who get duped like this received merciless judgment whenthey are not happy about being duped.


I think it's a very big deal. I was a virgin when I married, and so was my first husband. I wasn't "shamed" into saving myself. I wanted to give that gift to my husband only. I get tired of that desire being shamed.

I'm just afraid that he is going to ask things that A) he can never unhear and B) that he won't believe. He might be the rare exception to every rule I have ever seen about this kind of thing. But odds are, he'll be more like Mark Driscoll. And while many (especially a subset of men) would say she deserves to wear the "stained" emblem for the rest of her life, I don't necessarily agree with that aspect of it. I agree with honesty, humility, repentance, etc.

But not lifetime penance.


----------



## Truthseeker1

personofinterest said:


> I think it's a very big deal. I was a virgin when I married, and so was my first husband. I wasn't "shamed" into saving myself. I wanted to give that gift to my husband only. I get tired of that desire being shamed.
> 
> I'm just afraid that he is going to ask things that A) he can never unhear and B) that he won't believe. He might be the rare exception to every rule I have ever seen about this kind of thing. But odds are, he'll be more like Mark Driscoll. And while many (especially a subset of men) would say she deserves to wear the "stained" emblem for the rest of her life, I don't necessarily agree with that aspect of it. I agree with honesty, humility, repentance, etc.
> 
> But not lifetime penance.


Agreed but the time for honesty was BEFORE the wedding. He should have been able to decide if he wanted to proceed or not with the FULL truth. And its ok for him to hav e wanted to only proceed with a woman who was also a virgin.


----------



## minimalME

BluesPower said:


> First off, sexually insecure men are going to ask this question. They just are.


People are free to ask any question they wish. And I'm free to politely decline to answer.


----------



## BluesPower

personofinterest said:


> I think it's a very big deal. I was a virgin when I married, and so was my first husband. I wasn't "shamed" into saving myself. I wanted to give that gift to my husband only. I get tired of that desire being shamed.
> 
> I'm just afraid that he is going to ask things that A) he can never unhear and B) that he won't believe. He might be the rare exception to every rule I have ever seen about this kind of thing. But odds are, he'll be more like Mark Driscoll. And while many (especially a subset of men) would say she deserves to wear the "stained" emblem for the rest of her life, I don't necessarily agree with that aspect of it. I agree with honesty, humility, repentance, etc.
> 
> But not lifetime penance.


People that can accomplish this should be praised IMHO. So anyone that is shaming her for not being a virgin is just silly. 

However, it is the lying and what it is doing to her that is the problem. It is going to eat at her and continue to make her miserable. Plus, it has the added benefit of making her fear talking to H about her sexual needs and the poor sex that they are having. 

That is the problem IMHO...


----------



## Truthseeker1

BluesPower said:


> People that can accomplish this should be praised IMHO. So anyone that is shaming her for not being a virgin is just silly.
> 
> However, it is the lying and what it is doing to her that is the problem. It is going to eat at her and continue to make her miserable. Plus, it has the added benefit of making her fear talking to H about her sexual needs and the poor sex that they are having.
> 
> That is the problem IMHO...


Bingo - it is the continued lies. He deserved the truth before the wedding. Imagine how duped he will feel. Like a fool. That will not help him in the bedroom in the least.


----------



## samyeagar

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed but the time for honesty was BEFORE the wedding. He should have been able to decide if he wanted to proceed or not with the FULL truth. And its ok for him to hav e wanted to only proceed with a woman who was also a virgin.


And her lie also deprived another woman who had remained chaste of a husband who desired such, and remained chaste himself.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

All possible solutions have been offered, much good advice.

Now I'm just waiting to see how it turns out. I mean 61 pages, yikes.
&#55357;&#56841;


----------



## personofinterest

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed but the time for honesty was BEFORE the wedding. He should have been able to decide if he wanted to proceed or not with the FULL truth. And its ok for him to hav e wanted to only proceed with a woman who was also a virgin.


When a flux capacitor is invented, we can fix that. Until then.....


----------



## personofinterest

BluesPower said:


> People that can accomplish this should be praised IMHO. So anyone that is shaming her for not being a virgin is just silly.
> 
> However, it is the lying and what it is doing to her that is the problem. It is going to eat at her and continue to make her miserable. Plus, it has the added benefit of making her fear talking to H about her sexual needs and the poor sex that they are having.
> 
> That is the problem IMHO...


Okay I KNOW I am speaking English.

Did I say that the lie was not a problem?

This thread is fraught with chosen misunderstanding.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Well if you read it right...



personofinterest said:


> Okay I KNOW I am speaking English.
> 
> Did I say that the lie was not a problem?
> 
> This thread is fraught with chosen misunderstanding.


>


----------



## 269370

BluesPower said:


> First off, sexually insecure men are going to ask this question. They just are.



Or men who get off on that kind of information.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> I think it's a very big deal. I was a virgin when I married, and so was my first husband. I wasn't "shamed" into saving myself. I wanted to give that gift to my husband only. I get tired of that desire being shamed.



There is a difference between wanting to remain a virgin by your own choice or living in a society where having sex before marriage becomes such a taboo that you forever live in fear of becoming an outcast if you were found out.
If her fears are not unfounded (that the husband is likely to dump her if she was not a virgin), I find THAT notion disgusting (and not the notion that a woman shouldn’t ‘save herself’, if she wanted to).

How does it change her in her husbands eyes? Is she suddenly an evil witch? She is still the same loving (I presume) wife that he married in the first place.

Besides, that particular ‘gift’ often goes unappreciated unfortunately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

Townes said:


> As far as I know, he doesn't do it publicly anymore. He was brutal even from the pulpit about it. I imagine it's something that permanently shifted the power dynamic in their relationship, and I don't see him giving that up. He had a real public fall from grace though, so maybe he acquired some humility and forgiveness along the way.


This is wrong, if you are going to stay you need to forgive in my mind. If he wants to leave I think he had grounds but it's unfair to use it like a tool to get what you want.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

inmyprime said:


> There is a difference between wanting to remain a virgin by your own choice or living in a society where having sex before marriage becomes such a taboo that you forever live in fear of becoming an outcast if you were found out.
> If her fears are not unfounded (that the husband is likely to dump her if she was not a virgin), I find THAT notion disgusting (and not the notion that a woman shouldn’t ‘save herself’, if she wanted to).
> 
> How does it change her in her husbands eyes? Is she suddenly an evil witch? She is still the same loving (I presume) wife that he married in the first place.
> 
> Besides, that particular ‘gift’ often goes unappreciated unfortunately.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because he was sold one thing and received another. If she had been upfront and told him she wasn't a virgin when they started dating, he could have made a choice to continue or discontinue the relationship if that was an important thing to him. I think there is something more special for many people that know they were their spouse's only and not #5 or #8 on the greatest hits list. 

If she tells him now, she has two problems. 1) she isn't his one and only and 2) she chose to lie to him about this for several years. The deception may be more difficult to overcome than the actual fact that she isn't a virgin.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> I think a lot of men are like this even if they don't admit it.


I think I said this before, but you are a christian right? So you believe that God thinks of us like his children. Well your husband is his child too, he is not going to let him have a lifetime marriage where his wife continually lies to him about something SO important. Mostly because it's not good for both of you. 

It's obviously not good for you if you are still posting on this months later. This was not the plan. However he may be able to help your husband deal with it and actually help you have a better sex life. It doesn't have to destroy your marriage, but how you deal with the wrong you've done, by telling the truth and asking for forgiveness for lying will go a long way to what happens. Even if you don't work out, you will have a better start moving forward. 

Eventually your husband is going to find out. Tell your pastor or someone who is a leader to both of you if you can't do it alone. It's time for you to do the right thing, the outcome might not be bad. Do it as an act of faith and trust in God to work it out for you. 

Romans 8:28

One other thing. You only did ONE thing to him which was lie. The sex you had with other men wasn't you doing anything to him, you were not his at the time. It was still your body, and just your body. Maybe Gods too. It may be hard to hear, maybe he won't want to know, but even so you were not required to remain a virgin for a man you didn't even know. The only reason to do it was because that is a commandment and like I said if you are a Christian you believe you body is Gods. These consequences you are now facing would be one of the reasons why the command is there in the first place.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


You don't have to understand to forgive. Again, the only thing you did to him was lie. The sex you had wasn't done to him. He needs to forgive your lie, not the sex part. The lie is a very big one and may be too much but you were not married, you broke no vows.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> How does it change her in her husbands eyes? Is she suddenly an evil witch? She is still the same loving (I presume) wife that he married in the first place.


I don't believe it will change his view of her at all. And, I believe that he will completely understand that she is the selfsame woman he married.

The "view" which is most devastating to this marriage is how her husband believes he looks in his wife's eyes. And this has a huge potential to change for the far worse when he finds all these reasons to doubt his manhood even more than he currently does.


----------



## sokillme

TJW said:


> Yes, I think you don't understand.
> 
> Let me construct a hypothetical scenario for Jack and Jill....
> 
> Jack is arriving at marriage a virgin. He is very apprehensive about whether he will be enjoyed by his wife, he feels the only chance he has of actually being "good" for her, is if she has no experience....like him....
> 
> Jill had sex one time before her marriage. She and Beefcake climbed into the back seat and got it on. Beefcake was well-endowed, experienced at sex, had remarkably good looks, and made good money.
> 
> I don't think these are "part truths":
> 
> Jill had sex before marriage.
> Jill had sex once before marriage.
> 
> They are whole truth. They tell the truth about the germane facts regarding Jill's failing to arrive at her marriage a virgin. These are the truths that Jack must forgive Jill for, if they are to have a continuing happy marriage.
> 
> The following are also "truths":
> 
> His name was Beefcake
> we did it in the back seat of his car
> he was well-endowed
> he was experienced at sex
> he was good-looking
> he made good money
> 
> Of all these truths, only the "we did it" is germane, and it is the only aspect of these truths for which Jill can be forgiven. All of the other truths
> are not actions of Jill, therefore, neither God, nor Jack, can apply the principles of forgiveness to them.
> 
> However, these truths can hurt Jack deeply. He's not experienced at sex, he's only working with what he learned in a "non-hands-on" scenario, and then, from information which is of dubious quality and value.
> 
> Jack will have to "forgive himself" for not measuring up to his wife's expectations. I have to admit, that "forgiving myself" seems quite impossible, I think it may even BE impossible. He also cannot seek God about this, because he has learned from his religious training that God "doesn't make mistakes". Jack is therefore, "what God created him to be".....and his attempts to escape this judgement are futile.....his efforts will only fail....
> 
> Even though these are "truths", they do not serve to "build up"....neither would they be spoken "in love"..
> 
> If Jack forgives Jill for the two germane truths, they go away from the marriage and will not return.
> 
> Since Jack cannot "forgive" these other truths, there is no way for him to ever remove them from being permanently imprinted on his psyche. He will simply have to "live with" whatever of these truths he learns.
> 
> It therefore, serves no purpose to volunteer these truths, nor to answer in "truthfulness" if you are asked....an answer of "...I'm not going to reply to that question, nor to any rephrased question you ever ask me on that subject..." can be a completely whole truth.
> 
> There is a recovery method which can be applied. Jill must forgive Jack for not meeting her desires. And Jill must forgive, in this sense, like God forgives.... God not only decides to not consider our past bad actions when He interfaces us, He "sets the bar" to a "height" which is within our current envelope of capability, and He tells us how pleased He is that we jumped 2-1/2 feet today.....
> 
> My beloved young sister in Christ.... it is a high calling you must follow....but God will be there in your every step, and in your every rest....


In this story Jacks a p***y. Seriously, Read some books ask some questions, learn your wife's body and become her Barry White. Sexual compatibility is not static and if it is you are doing it wrong. Usually it is because one partner is not being honest because they are too insecure to say/hear feedback or worse they are just lazy. 

Forgive himself for not measuring up. **** that get to work! Seriously the whole idea is confounding. If I wasn't good as something I wanted to be good at I got mad and worked hard to be so. Tell her you are going to work your ass off to be her best and then practice with her so you can blow her mind. 

You know the parable of the talents? Jack here would be the guy who buried his talents in the sand because he was afraid of some guy his wife ****ed in the back seat of a car.


> You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed?


 He should be scattering his seed all over!

Besides that most women I know don't have the most fond memories of the back set of the car sex. Usually they want romance. Occasionally a little aggressive stuff too. Also in most of cases sex the first time is not the greatest that stuff is Hollywood, doesn't mean you can't improve from your first time, if you don't then you are doing it wrong. Jack needs to step up his game. He is going to have a long time to work at it. The key word is work. Nice job if you can get it. 

I feel bad for Jill.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> I don't believe it will change his view of her at all. And, I believe that he will completely understand that she is the selfsame woman he married.


Then why is she afraid that he will be dumping her after this?


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Then why is she afraid that he will be dumping her after this?


It is because of her view of herself - she is ashamed of her past, and largely because her husband has no past. She believes that he is "superior" to her.

And, it is entirely ironic, that if he does indeed dump her, it will most likely be because he believes that SHE is "superior" because of her experience, and he is actually ashamed of his non-experience.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> It is because of her view of herself - she is ashamed of her past, and largely because her husband has no past. She believes that he is "superior" to her.
> 
> And, it is entirely ironic, that if he does indeed dump her, it will most likely be because he believes that SHE is "superior" because of her experience, and he is actually ashamed of his non-experience.


I think the probability of him dumping her over this is quite small. But I guess we will never know.


----------



## ABHale

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So much for becoming "one" with one another. I get the whole, "Go forth and sin no more.." But seriously, Not telling the truth and being open and honest in ANY part of marriage will be a deal breaker. No bueno.
> 
> I DO think there is a way to maybe use a little literary finesse when discussing sexual pasts. I personally wouldn't want to hear that my spouse rode the C*ck Carousel and has more DNA implanted in her than the Genome Project vault. But hey, thats just me. But at the same time, you can "walk" your partner into a discussion that includes you not finding "Mr. Right". And Many things that your partner does the best and that you want to continue. Make him the top of the pile....So to speak.



She can’t do it because she doesn’t believe it.


----------



## minimalME

inmyprime said:


> Or men who get off on that kind of information.


Doesn't really matter why. Oversharing is overrated.


----------



## Diana7

Truthseeker1 said:


> This topic gets me so frustrated. Many people men and women save themselves for marriage and want a spouse who has done the same. *There is nothing wrong with that!!* Some are willing to overlook a partners sexual past if they fall in love. Whats important is that there is honesty before marriage and the person is honest about their past. You don't lie to land a "nice religious spouse". That's selfish and cruel to me. It is making a fool of the person you are going to marry. Then when their past is exposed after the years of lies the spouse is not supposed to be angry or feel betrayed. The general consensus especially if the betrayed spouse is a man is they have to suck it up and have no right to be angry. I've seen it here on other threads. Do they attack the spouse who is lied to if they dare get angry. How can you trust your spouse again if they based your marriage on a lie?


I agree. Its like suddenly telling your spouse that you have 2 previous wives or three children when you said you haven't been married before or had any children.


----------



## Diana7

TJW said:


> I don't believe it will change his view of her at all. And, I believe that he will completely understand that she is the selfsame woman he married.
> 
> The "view" which is most devastating to this marriage is how her husband believes he looks in his wife's eyes. And this has a huge potential to change for the far worse when he finds all these reasons to doubt his manhood even more than he currently does.


I think he will be devastated that she lied about something so important and he may wonder if he can trust her again. Whether he will end the marriage or not we don't know, but I don't think the OP has the guts or courage to tell him. 
If she doesn't then she will be living with this guilt and shame for the rest of her life. God will be on her case giving her the chance to tell him before He reveals it to him another way. Then she will have lost her chance and that would make it all far worse. It may be that God will lead him to forgive her and stay with her, but thats for Him to decide once he is told.


----------



## uhtred

I agree, and I've never understood the concern about previous lovers.

Being a good lover is something people can learn. I don't see how a adult can worry that they aren't as good as some fumbling teenager. If you are in a long term relationship, you have lots of time to learn exactly what your partner wants.

I guess though that there are also lazy lovers out there, and I've never understood that either. How could anyone tolerate being known as a bad lover? 

It is true that some things are difficult to change. Physical attributes. In many cases someone can't simply decide to be ultra-wealthy. But if you don't have those things, why marry someone who thinks that they are important? There are lots of women who don't need a donkey-sized dong, or a Bill Gates' sized wallet to be happy. 







sokillme said:


> In this story Jacks a p***y. Seriously, Read some books ask some questions, learn your wife's body and become her Barry White. Sexual compatibility is not static and if it is you are doing it wrong. Usually it is because one partner is not being honest because they are too insecure to say/hear feedback or worse they are just lazy.
> 
> Forgive himself for not measuring up. **** that get to work! Seriously the whole idea is confounding. If I wasn't good as something I wanted to be good at I got mad and worked hard to be so. Tell her you are going to work your ass off to be her best and then practice with her so you can blow her mind.
> 
> You know the parable of the talents? Jack here would be the guy who buried his talents in the sand because he was afraid of some guy his wife ****ed in the back seat of a car. He should be scattering his seed all over!
> 
> Besides that most women I know don't have the most fond memories of the back set of the car sex. Usually they want romance. Occasionally a little aggressive stuff too. Also in most of cases sex the first time is not the greatest that stuff is Hollywood, doesn't mean you can't improve from your first time, if you don't then you are doing it wrong. Jack needs to step up his game. He is going to have a long time to work at it. The key word is work. Nice job if you can get it.
> 
> I feel bad for Jill.


----------



## happyhusband0005

This is a tough one. I guess it depends on how judgmental will he be. We he view you as a completely different person because you had lots of sex before him. I'm sure your explanations of rebellion would make sense to the average american guy. But I grew up in a very religious environment so I know how negatively he might take this. 

I would probably lean towards keeping the past the past if he will never find out on his own. 

But if you do decide to tell him I suggest you go 100% truth. If the number is 20 tell him about all 20 don't say it was 3. Better to rip the bandaid all the way off in one motion. Also he might demand full detail and you might have to give general details but don't tell him about any thing you did with another guy you would not be willing to do with him now. He will probably go through a period where his imagination will be his worst enemy. 

Good luck


----------



## TJW

Diana7 said:


> I think he will be devastated that she lied about something so important and he may wonder if he can trust her again.


Yes, and one of the biggest "places" where he will be unable to trust her will be her sexual leadership. Th OP will be virtually unable, for a long time to come, to offer encouragement and praise to him which he will actually believe. He will not know whether he actually pleases her, or not. His "default" is going to be the sexual climate their marriage has begun into, which is "not".

This man has no honorable option but to learn his sexual abilities from his wife. He cannot simply go outside his marriage to find a trustworthy "teacher".

And, the longer the OP procrastinates about telling him, the greater his mistrust of her will become, and the path to restored trust will become longer and more complicated.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Diana7 said:


> I agree. Its like suddenly telling your spouse that you have 2 previous wives or three children when you said you haven't been married before or had any children.


It's the dishonesty that bothers me. Notice how the duped party always gets scolded and mocked for being angry about being lied to. It's disgusting. I wonder how many folks like that get a 'midlife crisis" and leave at some point. It has to be tough to live with everyday that you were lied to so your spouse could find a "nice wife/husband".


----------



## Truthseeker1

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is a tough one. I guess it depends on how judgmental will he be. We he view you as a completely different person because you had lots of sex before him. I'm sure your explanations of rebellion would make sense to the average american guy. But I grew up in a very religious environment so I know how negatively he might take this.
> *
> I would probably lean towards keeping the past the past if he will never find out on his own.
> *
> But if you do decide to tell him I suggest you go 100% truth. If the number is 20 tell him about all 20 don't say it was 3. Better to rip the bandaid all the way off in one motion. Also he might demand full detail and you might have to give general details but don't tell him about any thing you did with another guy you would not be willing to do with him now. He will probably go through a period where his imagination will be his worst enemy.
> 
> Good luck


so its ok for the husband to live out his life being lied to? if he ever found out from a third party and was made ot look liek a fool and he left he'd be within his rights to.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Truthseeker1 said:


> so its ok for the husband to live out his life being lied to? if he ever found out from a third party and was made ot look liek a fool and he left he'd be within his rights to.


Like I said it's a tough one. Based on my experience with very religious men, my guess is he will never get over this whether she tells him now or he finds out later. If he's unlikely to find out then yes I advise keeping it to her self. Truth is it isn't now and it never was his business what she did before she was with him. 

The bigger more complicated problem I see here is she has had better more intense sex in the past and doesn't know how to get him to meet her needs without him asking questions about were this is all coming from. One person in a relationship being unsatisfied is a big problem if the couple can't communicate about it. 

I suspect that she wants to tell him about her past experience so he knows she knows a thing or two more about sex than him. From reading all her posts she desires much much more passion excitement than she is getting now. 

Another recommendation for the OP regarding the sex. Just cuddle up with him one night and tell him you have been having lots of sexual dreams and fantasies lately and thought it would be fun to act some out with him. Talk about some of your fantasies and give him time to think and prepare. Let him lear as he goes but you can get very specific about the fantasies (guys like and often need specifics) so you are teaching him by telling him about fantasies you have. If you tell him about the past he will always think this must have been what some other guy did to you.


----------



## SGr

JustTheWife said:


> That's kind of how I see it too. But i do know it's wrong. I also don't see telling part truths. If I decided to tell him I better be prepared to tell it all and in all the details. If i told him the whole truth, I don't see how he could possibly stay with me. He just could never understand. I don't think i can understand it either.


Is it possible you might be underestimating your husband?

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthseeker1

happyhusband0005 said:


> Like I said it's a tough one. Based on my experience with very religious men, my guess is he will never get over this whether she tells him now or he finds out later. If he's unlikely to find out then yes I advise keeping it to her self. *Truth is it isn't now and it never was his business what she did before she was with him. *


I could not disagree more with that statement. She is his wife not a casual girlfriend. He had a right to know who he was marrying and if his wife being a virgin was important to him then she should have been honest. One more thing it there is nothing wrong with sleeping around then why not divulge it to a spouse? Whats the problem? I'm not saying she has to announce it to the town square but spouses know a lot of intimate details about each other.


----------



## Diana7

happyhusband0005 said:


> Like I said it's a tough one. Based on my experience with very religious men, my guess is he will never get over this whether she tells him now or he finds out later. If he's unlikely to find out then yes I advise keeping it to her self. Truth is it isn't now and it never was his business what she did before she was with him.
> 
> The bigger more complicated problem I see here is she has had better more intense sex in the past and doesn't know how to get him to meet her needs without him asking questions about were this is all coming from. One person in a relationship being unsatisfied is a big problem if the couple can't communicate about it.
> 
> I suspect that she wants to tell him about her past experience so he knows she knows a thing or two more about sex than him. From reading all her posts she desires much much more passion excitement than she is getting now.
> 
> Another recommendation for the OP regarding the sex. Just cuddle up with him one night and tell him you have been having lots of sexual dreams and fantasies lately and thought it would be fun to act some out with him. Talk about some of your fantasies and give him time to think and prepare. Let him lear as he goes but you can get very specific about the fantasies (guys like and often need specifics) so you are teaching him by telling him about fantasies you have. If you tell him about the past he will always think this must have been what some other guy did to you.


It absolutely is our business what the man or woman we want to marry has done before. How can we make an informed decision about whether to marry someone if things are kept secret? Its also vital that there is complete honesty and and openness in marriage. 
How someone has acted in their life shows us what they are like, what their moral values are, their honesty, integrity, if we share common values or not.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Diana7 said:


> It absolutely is our business what the man or woman we want to marry has done before. How can we make an informed decision about whether to marry someone if things are kept secret? Its also vital that there is complete honesty and and openness in marriage.
> How someone has acted in their life shows us what they are like, what their moral values are, their honesty, integrity, if we share common values or not.


At best you may get revisionist theory, at worst outright lies. There is a large chunk of their life they can tell you whatever they want and its highly unlikely you'd ever know any better. 

Whether my partner has had sex or not is fairly important information. Yes or no is all I care about. If she has, I don't want to know anymore. I'd rather not know. I bet lots of women lie about their counts with partners, which I understand, lowball it and impress your guy. But if you say your count is zero then it really better be ZERO!!


----------



## Truthseeker1

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> *At best you may get revisionist theory, at worst outright lies. There is a large chunk of their life they can tell you whatever they want and its highly unlikely you'd ever know any better. *
> 
> Whether my partner has had sex or not is fairly important information. Yes or no is all I care about. If she has, I don't want to know anymore. I'd rather not know. I bet lots of women lie about their counts with partners, which I understand, lowball it and impress your guy. But if you say your count is zero then it really better be ZERO!!


That says a lot about the person your marrying.


----------



## Diana7

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> At best you may get revisionist theory, at worst outright lies. There is a large chunk of their life they can tell you whatever they want and its highly unlikely you'd ever know any better.
> 
> Whether my partner has had sex or not is fairly important information. Yes or no is all I care about. If she has, I don't want to know anymore. I'd rather not know. I bet lots of women lie about their counts with partners, which I understand, lowball it and impress your guy. But if you say your count is zero then it really better be ZERO!!


I think there are also many who don't lie about things like that. If I couldn't trust someone then I wouldn't marry them.


----------



## TJW

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There is a large chunk of their life they can tell you whatever they want and its highly unlikely you'd ever know any better.


I have to respectfully disagree with the "know any better" part. It may be initially true, for a time, that the experientially-acquired behavior of a person is not apparent. But, through time, when I see apples? I know it was an apple tree which produced them, and I will especially-well know that they didn't self-materialize....

I may never know the truthful "how many".... but I will quite certainly know it is nonzero, and I will know if it is a low number or a high number....because I am intimately connected to and familiar with this person, I will know and understand what is the facade and what is the authenticity.

I don't think this young man is going to be surprised to find out. I think he already knows he's been hoodwinked.... I think that is the major reason why he approaches his wife so timidly. In fact, his reluctance toward sex, in this situation, is the behavioral confirmation of his virginity. Yes, we cannot know if it is absolute zero, but we can know the number, while nonzero, is quite small.

If he actually felt that his wife had zero, or small, experience.....I think he would be much more bold toward her, and demonstrate confidence, rather than fear.
The lack of trust is already affecting their marriage.

Being "told" is going to be very much like a trip to the dentist with an abscess. "Pulling the tooth" is going to be accompanied by a short period of intense, acute pain.... but the expulsion of that infection is going to allow the chronic pain to subside. If left un-pulled, that infection is going to migrate and infiltrate the entire body. 

There will come a "point of no return", at which the infection is too widespread to be effectively treated.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Truthseeker1 said:


> I could not disagree more with that statement. She is his wife not a casual girlfriend. He had a right to know who he was marrying and if his wife being a virgin was important to him then she should have been honest. One more thing it there is nothing wrong with sleeping around then why not divulge it to a spouse? Whats the problem? I'm not saying she has to announce it to the town square but spouses know a lot of intimate details about each other.


I totally get what your saying but she is asking for advice about what to do now, she knows she was wrong in the beginning. For me personally if I asked a woman and she said she didn't talk about her past I would be fine with that. I wouldn't care about her past I care about who she is as a person, but I have my own view points on sex and marriage for example I think it is a mistake to NOT have sex before your married. Some people will just never be really compatible sexually, I would prefer to know that before hand. Yes you still enjoy sex together but sometimes all the love in the world does not mean you going to have an incredible sex life. I also think it is crazy to think if your wife has ever only been with you that she's not wondering what it would be like to be with someone else and she is going to be sitting there many years from now regretting never experiencing anything else (unless she is just not very sexual). 

Like I said originally I would not tell him for his own sake and the sake of the relationship.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> It absolutely is our business what the man or woman we want to marry has done before. How can we make an informed decision about whether to marry someone if things are kept secret? Its also vital that there is complete honesty and and openness in marriage.
> *How someone has acted in their life shows us what they are like*, what their moral values are, their honesty, integrity, if we share common values or not.


Not really. How someone *is acting* shows us what they are like and what their moral values are. Needing to know all the details about someone's past would show me that the person asking is too nosey and possibly a control freak more than it tells me anything about what the other person is like. Anyone talking about their past will not be portraying it accurately or objectively because it will be through their own subjective lens. So you never get that 'complete honesty' that you are referring to idealistically and talking about past generally makes a nice conversation but doesn't really tell us anything much.

As far as I understood it, she has not slept around with anyone while married. So why on earth does it matter whether she did in the past is still beyond me.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> As far as I understood it, she has not slept around with anyone while married. So why on earth does it matter whether she did in the past is still beyond me.


Whether she "did" is not what matters. It is WHY she did that matters...and her current attitude toward her past activities matters greatly. Also, her husband's attitude toward her past matters greatly. Both of their attitudes can be adjusted to eliminate shame, intimidation, and other emotions from robbing them of a good and happy marriage.

If she can put these events totally out of her marriage, receive forgiveness of them, she can go forward into her marriage without shame being a large "wall" between her and her husband.

If she decides that she will, from this point forward, present herself to and with her husband as a person who is free from the bondage of her past, and her husband decides that he will, not allow her past to be any factor whatsoever in their marriage, then you are correct. It does not matter. She is "just as if" she came into her marriage a virgin, along with her husband.

It is the attitude of the hearts of two people which matter. Not the past of either of them.


----------



## Wazza

inmyprime said:


> Not really. How someone *is acting* shows us what they are like and what their moral values are. Needing to know all the details about someone's past would show me that the person asking is too nosey and possibly a control freak more than it tells me anything about what the other person is like. Anyone talking about their past will not be portraying it accurately or objectively because it will be through their own subjective lens. So you never get that 'complete honesty' that you are referring to idealistically and talking about past generally makes a nice conversation but doesn't really tell us anything much.
> 
> As far as I understood it, she has not slept around with anyone while married. So why on earth does it matter whether she did in the past is still beyond me.


On lying. If we accept that perfect truth is hard to achieve, does that mean any old lie is ok? What level of lie is acceptable? 

As for OP’s promiscuity, some people believe that is ok,and some don’t. I personally have no problem with her making that choice, but if her husband has different sexual values he has a right to them.

Trust and honesty. Your words. Yet your seem to be advocating betrayal of trust and dishonesty, simply because you have different values from the husband. I don’t think you are consistent.


----------



## 269370

Wazza said:


> Yet your seem to be advocating betrayal of trust and dishonesty, simply because you have different values from the husband. I don’t think you are consistent.



I’m not doing that. I’m simply looking at the bigger bigger picture. The bigger picture is that she felt she had to conceal the fact that she was not a virgin. And the bigger bigger picture is that those expectations (‘be untouched or be damned’) stink.
If she wanted to ‘save’ herself that would be fine and her choice but she clearly didn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

inmyprime said:


> As far as I understood it, she has not slept around with anyone while married. So why on earth does it matter whether she did in the past is still beyond me.


It matters because her husband chose no sex before marriage and so expected his future wife would have the same values. I realize thats like searching for a unicorn these days, but it is important for many people. If she had just leveled with him on day 1, then this whole foolishness could have been avoided. Now telling him will do nothing except screw up yet another marriage.


----------



## 269370

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It matters because her husband chose no sex before marriage and so expected his future wife would have the same values. I realize thats like searching for a unicorn these days, but it is important for many people. If she had just leveled with him on day 1, then this whole foolishness could have been avoided. Now telling him will do nothing except screw up yet another marriage.




Yes I completely agree with it. 
The other irony is that very often both virgins will wait patiently and eagerly until marriage only to find out that they are completely sexually incompatible.
But at least they waited...

It’s a shame in a way the OP and husband waited: they could have avoided this whole issue (and more) by simply figuring out early on that they are not that compatible with each other.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

inmyprime said:


> I’m not doing that. I’m simply looking at the bigger bigger picture. The bigger picture is that she felt she had to conceal the fact that she was not a virgin. And the bigger bigger picture is that those expectations (‘be untouched or be damned’) stink.
> If she wanted to ‘save’ herself that would be fine and her choice but she clearly didn’t.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am down with this BUT. The religion that she purports to engage in as interpreted by them has specific things to say about this. The way to choose not to save oneself is not to pick someone whose values are not the same and then lie about it.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not religious. But let's say that my husband had lied to me about the things that *are *important to me, family, honesty, integrity... I would not be a fan.


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> I am down with this BUT. The religion that she purports to engage in as interpreted by them has specific things to say about this. The way to choose not to save oneself is not to pick someone whose values are not the same and then lie about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who knows me knows I am not religious. But let's say that my husband had lied to me about the things that *are *important to me, family, honesty, integrity... I would not be a fan.




That’s fine but most people will hopefully know by now that most people are hypocrites whether religious or not. That’s probably a different topic but it shows up more in religious people simply because they often shout about their ‘higher morals’ from the roof tops and if a non religious person does something against their morals it’s to be expected, since they are ‘godless’ anyway.

Everyone is human and does stupid things sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

inmyprime said:


> That’s fine but most people will hopefully know by now that most people are hypocrites whether religious or not.


I don't care what "most" people are. I would not want to marry one of the most who are hypocritical about their values.


----------



## samyeagar

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't care what "most" people are. I would not want to marry one of the most who are hypocritical about their values.


And all indications are that the husband here ISN'T one of the hypocrites.


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't care what "most" people are. I would not want to marry one of the most who are hypocritical about their values.


I think that's what most people want too :wink2:


----------



## samyeagar

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't care what "most" people are. I would not want to marry one of the most who are hypocritical about their values.





inmyprime said:


> I think that's what most people want too :wink2:


And he thought he was, and she knew he wasn't.


----------



## NobodySpecial

samyeagar said:


> And he thought he was, and she knew he wasn't.


Yah. That is not a good foundation for marriage.


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> I’m not doing that. I’m simply looking at the bigger bigger picture. The bigger picture is that she felt she had to conceal the fact that she was not a virgin. And the bigger bigger picture is that those expectations (‘be untouched or be damned’) stink.
> If she wanted to ‘save’ herself that would be fine and her choice but she clearly didn’t.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, you’re looking at a completely different picture that doesn’t have any of the facts in it. 

How convenient for you. 

:rofl:


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> Yes I completely agree with it.
> The other irony is that very often both virgins will wait patiently and eagerly until marriage only to find out that they are completely sexually incompatible.
> But at least they waited...
> 
> It’s a shame in a way the OP and husband waited: they could have avoided this whole issue (and more) by simply figuring out early on that they are not that compatible with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here you go bashing on people that don’t believe the way you do. What else would we expect from you.


----------



## ABHale

IMP, do you hate JTW’s husband as much as it seems you do?


----------



## oldtruck

ABHale said:


> Inmyprime,
> 
> you know a girl’s hymen can be broken from riding a bike, using a tampon and in other ways that don’t include sexual intimacy right.
> 
> You are the only one that keeps bringing this up. All OP has said is that her husband was wanting until marriage and waited a wife that believed the same and was waiting as well.
> 
> OP never said he came out and said “I want a virgin so I can pop her cheery (hymen). I must have a virgin”. Your are the one giving him these traits.


A hymen broken from non sexual contact does not make the women a non-virgin.


----------



## CharlieParker

personofinterest said:


> People implying that a Hymen can only be broken from 6 are idiots. I'm sorry, ask any medical doctor. There are in fact of a rioter I of ways besides 6 that it can be broken. A lot of these things are things people do during childhood. So this whole Hymen business is some left over weird ED otic thing that people need to let go of period unless you plan to display your sheets after your wedding night. It's time to join the 21st century


I haven’t followed this thread and I’m not directing this at you per se but you did remind me of something Emily Nagoski wrote, “I guarantee that virtually everything you were taught about the hymen is wrong.”


----------



## bandit.45

JustTheWife said:


> ....I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him
> 
> I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


You don't talk much do you? 

Anyway, on the off-chance you come back, let me ask you a question...

What is of greater value to you? Preserving your marriage at all costs (including taking this dirty little secret to your grave), or becoming an authentic and honest person regardless of where your marriage ends up?


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I understand what you are saying but I think it would be cruel to tell him that I had sex with other guys but won't say (if he wants to know):
> 
> how many guys it was
> How big these penises were
> How they did me
> If we did oral or anal
> Did they wear rubbers?
> Where did they "finish"
> Were there any who were strangers
> 
> I mean stuff like that and a bunch of other really hurtful things that would really upset him
> 
> I just can't imagine telling him the whole truth about what i did


Why do you believe he would ask?

Would he even care beyond the point that you have lied to him from the start?


----------



## PigglyWiggly

ABHale said:


> Why do you believe he would ask?
> 
> Would he even care beyond the point that you have lied to him from the start?


I haven't been in this situation but my curiosity made me ask: I cannot separate sex and emotion while many men can. I would expect us to ask different questions in this scenario based on how emotionally transgressed we felt. Do you think that is reasonable or am I grasping?

Finally, physical touch is my love language. How much does that factor in to someone's reaction/response?


----------



## syhoybenden

I think this post by Just The Wife in the thread Can we talk about penis size?? should lay to rest any empathy she may have garnered regarding her cavalier attitude regarding her poor 'inadequate' duped virgin husband.


"JustTheWife
Member

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 76
Re: Can we talk about penis size??

Ha ha. that's pretty funny. I guess some of the sex i've had might have been more like kick boxing!!! But seriously I guess what was exciting for me is that I'm submissive and when the guy is huge he is fully in control of your pain and pleasure. It's his choice with each thrust if he wants to really drive it home and make me feel the pain or if he wants to slow down and ease it in. I love when the guy is fully in charge. That's to intense and intimate it's like you're giving him all of yourself. "


Do the poor guy a favour and just let him go.


----------



## personofinterest

A MAN just posted a thread about whether or not he should tell his fiance he was a sex worker.

Perhaps the proponents of truth could help him as well.


----------



## personofinterest

Im.pretty sure there's a policy about open calling out perceived troll threads....


----------



## personofinterest

I'm flattered by why my posts matter to you so much, but I think I'll just keep doing my own thing.


----------



## JustTheWife

syhoybenden said:


> I think this post by Just The Wife in the thread Can we talk about penis size?? should lay to rest any empathy she may have garnered regarding her cavalier attitude regarding her poor 'inadequate' duped virgin husband.
> 
> 
> "JustTheWife
> Member
> 
> Join Date: Nov 2017
> Posts: 76
> Re: Can we talk about penis size??
> 
> Ha ha. that's pretty funny. I guess some of the sex i've had might have been more like kick boxing!!! But seriously I guess what was exciting for me is that I'm submissive and when the guy is huge he is fully in control of your pain and pleasure. It's his choice with each thrust if he wants to really drive it home and make me feel the pain or if he wants to slow down and ease it in. I love when the guy is fully in charge. That's to intense and intimate it's like you're giving him all of yourself. "
> 
> 
> Do the poor guy a favour and just let him go.


So I can't talk about other topics just because I have problems in my marriage? And on that other thread someone already mentioned this thread just to I guess say that I have problems.

Anyway, I have tried to work on things with my hubby and sadly it was a disaster. I'm not very comfortable being the one to initiate things but I gave it my best try. I tried to do oral on him and I asked if he wanted to do oral on me. Nothing. Just pushed me away and said we'll talk about it later. How embarassing. He won't even play with my boobs. Nothing. I tried all kinds of things and nothing. Even when i was embarrassed and feeling so rejected I still tried for the sake of the marriage. Nothing at all. Maybe if i was better at keeping that side of me under control i could deal with this better. who knows? But I can't take that back now.


----------



## syhoybenden

Have you been honest with him yet? Or still keeping him in the dark?


----------



## personofinterest

syhoybenden said:


> Have you been honest with him yet? Or still keeping him in the dark?


 There's a thread by in engaged man that might interest you, since honesty is also the topic on that thread.


----------



## bandit.45

Is your husband a closet gay? Not kidding. He may be.


----------



## JustTheWife

bandit.45 said:


> Is your husband a closet gay? Not kidding. He may be.


I guess you can never really know for sure but I don't think so. There has neever been anything to point to that. He's very religious and does not believe in it but obviously that doesn't prove anything. We do have sex (sorry if i was not clear on that) but it's just always the same. Always vanilla. It's like he doesn't really get horny for me.

I've never been with a guy like this. Most were super horny and took charge of me and wanted to do everything. I never really initiated with guys, they just wanted me. So I don't understand why he's so different.

I would do anything for him and he doesn't want anything but boring sex. I'm not sure what else i can do because i tried my best to get him to want me.


----------



## Nucking Futs

JustTheWife said:


> I guess you can never really know for sure but I don't think so. There has neever been anything to point to that. He's very religious and does not believe in it but obviously that doesn't prove anything. We do have sex (sorry if i was not clear on that) but it's just always the same. Always vanilla. It's like he doesn't really get horny for me.
> 
> I've never been with a guy like this. Most were super horny and took charge of me and wanted to do everything. I never really initiated with guys, they just wanted me. So I don't understand why he's so different.
> 
> I would do anything for him and he doesn't want anything but boring sex. *I'm not sure what else i can do because i tried my best to get him to want me.*


Here's an idea you haven't tried. How about telling him the truth about your sexuality? You've tried everything to fix your sex life except the obvious, telling him what you need.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> So I can't talk about other topics just because I have problems in my marriage? And on that other thread someone already mentioned this thread just to I guess say that I have problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I have tried to work on things with my hubby and sadly it was a disaster. I'm not very comfortable being the one to initiate things but I gave it my best try. I tried to do oral on him and I asked if he wanted to do oral on me. Nothing. Just pushed me away and said we'll talk about it later. How embarassing. He won't even play with my boobs. Nothing. I tried all kinds of things and nothing. Even when i was embarrassed and feeling so rejected I still tried for the sake of the marriage. Nothing at all. Maybe if i was better at keeping that side of me under control i could deal with this better. who knows? But I can't take that back now.



Does the religious aspect in your marriage prohibit him from touching boobs or oral? Or is he generally not interested in your body?

Has he tried glory holes? Don’t really know what else to suggest for him or you. 
Like I always said: honesty is not going to solve any of your major incompatibility issues.

Do you have to stay with him?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I've never been with a guy like this. Most were super horny and took charge of me and wanted to do everything. I never really initiated with guys, they just wanted me. So I don't understand why he's so different.


There's actually a pretty simple answer to this. He's different, because he's your husband, and he knows how displeased you are with him. 

Those other "super horny" guys had no commitment to you, not much of any sense of honor, and certainly not any conviction of the sacredness of marriage. If they took the risk, and you rejected them, they could simply pick up the next girl they found and go from there.

Your husband is less willing to risk rejection, because he is permanently "bound" to behave honorably toward you. And, he is very afraid of your rejection, because he recognizes that he doesn't please you.

He might also have religious "hangups" about various sexual practices. He needs to learn that God says, in His word, that "marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled". See Hebrews 13:4.

It's only my opinion, but I think the time has come. The time has come that you need to be honest with yourself, whether you actually WANT to be married to this man, or not.

If you do want to be his wife, then you should seek the necessary help from professionals and clergy to adjust your marriage into a biblical standard.

If you do not want to be his wife, then you should leave.

My opinion also is, that in many cases, divorce is the "gnat" and the bad marriage is the "camel".


----------



## Townes

I think you can do just about anything other than stay the course. Tell him about your past, demand counseling, divorce. I don't care which you do, but I would say there is about a 0% chance you don't cheat if you maintain the status quo.


----------



## TJW

Townes said:


> I would say there is about a 0% chance you don't cheat if you maintain the status quo.


I agree. I'm not usually one to advise divorce. I guess it's that I know how God is able to move, change, and bring us really good outcomes, even when our own "understanding" says no. However, I think this case warrants a different approach from me.

I had a similar first marriage to your husband's. I wasn't a virgin, but very inexperienced (and one of my encounters went seriously bad). My wife was experienced and promiscuous.....

There was no possible way she would have ever been pleased with me, sexually. She complained "I have to bring myself down to your level".
It took her 5 months to begin cheating. I never refused to try anything she asked. However, I just wasn't really good at it, and she was unhappy, to say the least.

I'm here to tell you ...... this was the biggest hurt I ever experienced in life. Even the deaths of two of my sons and my daughter, 2 of my wives, did not, even if taken in total, add up to how awful it was to find her in one of my friend's (so I thought) arms. I didn't eat for 9 days, didn't work for about 3 weeks. 

In retrospect, I could have endured a quick end to the marriage with a divorce far less painfully.

With your husband's apparent sheltered, religious upbringing, and his naivete stemming from his inexperience, I can assure you that discovering your affair is going to be devastating to him. He is not one of your self-interested, morally-bankrupt cocksmen from the past who "milked you through the fence". Those scoundrels are a dime-a-dozen....your husband is a priceless man of God who seems to love you immensely. He has done nothing, but nothing, to deserve that.

Please....whatever you do, please.... don't go swimming in that pool of iniquity again. Get a clear, vivid picture of your husband's heart being held in your hands.....


----------



## Townes

TJW said:


> I agree. I'm not usually one to advise divorce. I guess it's that I know how God is able to move, change, and bring us really good outcomes, even when our own "understanding" says no. However, I think this case warrants a different approach from me.
> 
> I had a similar first marriage to your husband's. I wasn't a virgin, but very inexperienced (and one of my encounters went seriously bad). My wife was experienced and promiscuous.....
> 
> There was no possible way she would have ever been pleased with me, sexually. She complained "I have to bring myself down to your level".
> It took her 5 months to begin cheating. I never refused to try anything she asked. However, I just wasn't really good at it, and she was unhappy, to say the least.
> 
> I'm here to tell you ...... this was the biggest hurt I ever experienced in life. Even the deaths of two of my sons and my daughter, 2 of my wives, did not, even if taken in total, add up to how awful it was to find her in one of my friend's (so I thought) arms. I didn't eat for 9 days, didn't work for about 3 weeks.
> 
> In retrospect, I could have endured a quick end to the marriage with a divorce far less painfully.
> 
> With your husband's apparent sheltered, religious upbringing, and his naivete stemming from his inexperience, I can assure you that discovering your affair is going to be devastating to him. He is not one of your self-interested, morally-bankrupt cocksmen from the past who "milked you through the fence". Those scoundrels are a dime-a-dozen....your husband is a priceless man of God who seems to love you immensely. He has done nothing, but nothing, to deserve that.
> 
> Please....whatever you do, please.... don't go swimming in that pool of iniquity again. Get a clear, vivid picture of your husband's heart being held in your hands.....


Awful story. Sorry you had to go through that.


----------



## TJW

I just hope the OP's husband doesn't. The OP's posts on the other thread could be the "script" of dialogue between my wife and I.

It "scares" me.....I see this marriage headed to the same place....


----------



## bandit.45

Who knows? If she tells him he might go the opposite way and actually get aroused by the thought of his wife getting plowed by other men. It might light his fuse. We've seen weirder here on TAM.


----------



## JustTheWife

TJW said:


> I agree. I'm not usually one to advise divorce. I guess it's that I know how God is able to move, change, and bring us really good outcomes, even when our own "understanding" says no. However, I think this case warrants a different approach from me.
> 
> I had a similar first marriage to your husband's. I wasn't a virgin, but very inexperienced (and one of my encounters went seriously bad). My wife was experienced and promiscuous.....
> 
> There was no possible way she would have ever been pleased with me, sexually. She complained "I have to bring myself down to your level".
> It took her 5 months to begin cheating. I never refused to try anything she asked. However, I just wasn't really good at it, and she was unhappy, to say the least.
> 
> I'm here to tell you ...... this was the biggest hurt I ever experienced in life. Even the deaths of two of my sons and my daughter, 2 of my wives, did not, even if taken in total, add up to how awful it was to find her in one of my friend's (so I thought) arms. I didn't eat for 9 days, didn't work for about 3 weeks.
> 
> In retrospect, I could have endured a quick end to the marriage with a divorce far less painfully.
> 
> With your husband's apparent sheltered, religious upbringing, and his naivete stemming from his inexperience, I can assure you that discovering your affair is going to be devastating to him. He is not one of your self-interested, morally-bankrupt cocksmen from the past who "milked you through the fence". Those scoundrels are a dime-a-dozen....your husband is a priceless man of God who seems to love you immensely. He has done nothing, but nothing, to deserve that.
> 
> Please....whatever you do, please.... don't go swimming in that pool of iniquity again. Get a clear, vivid picture of your husband's heart being held in your hands.....


I don't know what to say. What happened to you is so awful.

But I'm not like some amazing lover that tries to put him down for inexperience. At least you tried. I'm not going to compare if he tries but it's kind of sad when strangers would go down on me and my own husband won't even try. won't even taste me. Or let me do oral on him. Oral is just an example.

At least these other guys were willing to do intimate things with me. Why can't my own husband?


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know what to say. What happened to you is so awful.
> 
> But I'm not like some amazing lover that tries to put him down for inexperience. At least you tried. I'm not going to compare if he tries but it's kind of sad when strangers would go down on me and my own husband won't even try. won't even taste me. Or let me do oral on him. Oral is just an example.
> 
> At least these other guys were willing to do intimate things with me. Why can't my own husband?


Because he doesn't desire you that much. Will you be able to live with that for the rest of your life?


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> At least these other guys were willing to do intimate things with me. Why can't my own husband?


I think I can explain this.... the key to it is "intimate things" - and the definition of "intimate things" in two perspectives....yours, and your husband's.

It was the same problem in my own first marriage. My wife came into marriage with a "long list" of "intimate things". Her definition of "intimate things" included different coital positions, sessions lasting a couple of hours, and men who had long penises who were able to penetrate her vagina from the rear.... this was a physical impossibility because both of us carried extra pounds, and I had a penis of average length. But, because her past experience included men who were longer than average with skinny builds, her desire for this among her other "intimate things" was unsatiated. Neither of us was very successful at taking off the pounds , however, only my weight was the "problem" .....

if only....if only I could have morphed into a 6' 3", 180 lb piano player with a left-hand span of an 11th....she could have kept her T.I.D. popsicle habit and had B.I.D. "good" sex also..... that, and following the yellow-brick road, and singing "...if he only had a schlong..."

I arrived at my marriage with a "short list" of "intimate things". My definition of "intimate things" included two coital positions, "missionary", and "cowgirl"...... and, my experience was limited to 2 women with whom I had "good" experiences (and, neither one of these women experienced orgasms regularly through PIV intercourse, only by oral or manual). Neither of these women thought there was anything "wrong" with the sexuality I shared with them. Sex between us was pretty much the same as it was for them and their other partners.

Your husband's case is "worse" than mine.... I had a little experience, he has ZERO. His "list" of "intimate things" includes only those specific acts which come from his imagination.

And, your problem is exacerbated by the non-communication between you and your husband. He has no earthly idea that your list of "intimate things" is different than his...... he's trying to do what he "knows", and what he considers "proper".... he may have some erroneous acceptance of "traditions of men" being "commandments of God", too..... the church is notoriously bad about promulgating these "taboos".....



inmyprime said:


> Because he doesn't desire you that much.


When I read this the first time, my "knee jerk" reaction was "...that is wrong...." .... however, I remember how the outcome of continuously feeling that I couldn't please my wife..... was that I lost desire for her. I didn't lose desire for sex itself, nor was she any less attractive to me than she was in the beginning...... but the strongest motivating emotion we humans feel is pain avoidance. Pain avoidance quickly becomes the "governor" over our desires.

Please, if you want to salvage and have a good marriage with this man...... seek the professional and pastoral guidance you need to open the lines of communication with him....


----------



## BruceBanner

Husband is probably asexual.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> When I read this the first time, my "knee jerk" reaction was "...that is wrong...." .... however, I remember how the outcome of continuously feeling that I couldn't please my wife..... was that I lost desire for her. I didn't lose desire for sex itself, nor was she any less attractive to me than she was in the beginning...... but the strongest motivating emotion we humans feel is pain avoidance. Pain avoidance quickly becomes the "governor" over our desires.


But you knew your wife's sexual past and about her lovers (and hence felt inadequate) and JTW's husband doesn't. So he doesn't feel inadequate. He just simply doesn't desire her that much. This is not something that changes, whether he gets better at sex or not. Desire cannot be 'learnt'; it's either there or it isn't. And it clearly isn't. Nor has he got any idea that she feels that he is 'not pleasing her'. She is not saying it to him that he is not pleasing her, she is saying it out loud here.
I find it ridiculous that some men try to blame her past on the fact that her husband simply doesn't feel like ****ing her very much. Her past has nothing to do with her husband's lack of desire for her, lets be clear about this.


----------



## Mstanton

The only virgin girls I remember were when I was in high-school. So, for me I know everyone is lying about their sexual past and it doesn't bug me because I lie about mine too.

However... I'm not very religious so it's not a big deal to me. It, I am sure, would be to him. You didn't lie about the number... you just straight up lied to him... and showed no regard for his beliefs. I think that was wrong of you to do.


----------



## [email protected]

Your husband feels inadequate in the face of your many past lovers. That's most likely why he wont try anything with you. No doubt he knows you compare him to others. Anyhow, I'm afraid your marriage is toast.


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I don't know what to say. What happened to you is so awful.
> 
> But I'm not like some amazing lover that tries to put him down for inexperience. At least you tried. I'm not going to compare if he tries but it's kind of sad when strangers would go down on me and my own husband won't even try. won't even taste me. Or let me do oral on him. Oral is just an example.
> 
> At least these other guys were willing to do intimate things with me. Why can't my own husband?


Probably for the same reason you can’t be honest with him.


----------



## TJW

ABHale said:


> Probably for the same reason you can’t be honest with him.


This is so incredibly sad. And, it's ironic, indeed. It is the same reason.....shame. She's ashamed of her past, and he's ashamed of his. They are both going to have to deal with the shame, put it behind them, if the marriage has any chance at all. 



[email protected] said:


> I'm afraid your marriage is toast.


I'm afraid you're right. Every passing day with their unchanged situation brings them closer to the toaster. This thread is now more than 5 months long. There's been no report of any changes.

I can't see how either one of them could possibly want to continue this.


----------



## Diana7

TJW said:


> This is so incredibly sad. And, it's ironic, indeed. It is the same reason.....shame. She's ashamed of her past, and he's ashamed of his. They are both going to have to deal with the shame, put it behind them, if the marriage has any chance at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you're right. Every passing day with their unchanged situation brings them closer to the toaster. This thread is now more than 5 months long. There's been no report of any changes.
> 
> I can't see how either one of them could possibly want to continue this.


Thats because she refuses to be honest with him. Nothing will change until their marriage has honesty and openness.


----------



## ABHale

TJW said:


> This is so incredibly sad. And, it's ironic, indeed. It is the same reason.....shame. She's ashamed of her past, and he's ashamed of his. They are both going to have to deal with the shame, put it behind them, if the marriage has any chance at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you're right. Every passing day with their unchanged situation brings them closer to the toaster. This thread is now more than 5 months long. There's been no report of any changes.
> 
> I can't see how either one of them could possibly want to continue this.


Why should he be ashamed of his past?

More to say but I never meant her husband should feel any shame on his part. He is the victim of a callus, lying and remorseless woman.


----------



## TJW

ABHale said:


> Why should he be ashamed of his past?


He could possibly be ashamed of his non-experience, in light of his wife's experience. Young men hardly ever judge themselves upon their virtues. More often, they derive their self-esteem from how successful they have been with women. I'm sure he feels inadequate.....because he sees himself as an utter failure, and thoroughly rejected by his wife, who is his only "experience". All his experience has, therefore, been bad.

The OP says that she "won't compare" - but this entire thread is based upon nothing other than comparison. I'm relatively sure her husband "feels" this, compares himself, and finds himself lacking. Hence, shame.

I hate to say this, in a certain way, but believe it to be true.....that he would be better off in this situation if he had about 10 women before marriage. 

I hate to say it, because I know that God's ideal is what he maintained, and I always like to think of God's way as the best way. Perhaps I just see a "loophole" here....


----------



## ABHale

TJW said:


> He could possibly be ashamed of his non-experience, in light of his wife's experience. Young men hardly ever judge themselves upon their virtues. More often, they derive their self-esteem from how successful they have been with women. I'm sure he feels inadequate.....because he sees himself as an utter failure, and thoroughly rejected by his wife, who is his only "experience". All his experience has, therefore, been bad.
> 
> The OP says that she "won't compare" - but this entire thread is based upon nothing other than comparison. I'm relatively sure her husband "feels" this, compares himself, and finds himself lacking. Hence, shame.
> 
> I hate to say this, in a certain way, but believe it to be true.....that he would be better off in this situation if he had about 10 women before marriage.
> 
> I hate to say it, because I know that God's ideal is what he maintained, and I always like to think of God's way as the best way. Perhaps I just see a "loophole" here....


He has no clue apparently that she had been very active. But I always knew when my wife just wasn’t into it at times. I’m sure the first time they were together and he slid right in, something of the truth went through his mind. 

Why should he had. He told op from the start of their friendship that he was wanting. Then she would go off and get her brains f’d out. O I forgot she told her husband that she was waiting as well at that time. She has done this herself.


----------



## JustTheWife

ABHale said:


> Why should he be ashamed of his past?
> 
> More to say but I never meant her husband should feel any shame on his part. He is the victim of a callus, lying and remorseless woman.


I'm the only one that needs to be ashamed here. He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way. I lived in the gutter.

I'm not remorseless. I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.


----------



## syhoybenden

So tell him already!!

Take your last shot at trying to fix this mess that you have made.

Don't be afraid to be honest. Better late than never.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I'm the only one that needs to be ashamed here. He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way. I lived in the gutter.
> 
> I'm not remorseless. I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.


You dont seem to understand anything about forgiveness and repentance. If you have repented to God for what you did and the lying and deception, then you are forgiven by Him now. However, part of that repentance is that you need to 
repent to your husband as well. 
Even if you are forgiven, there will still be consequences. Yes its possible that he may end the marriage, that may be one consequence of the lies and deception, but you may be surprised. God is working in the situation and he may well be preparing your husband. However, you must do your part. This cant carry on, you and the marriage are being very badly affected by this and it will almost certainly come out sooner or later. Far better to tell him now. You will feel so much better and its the right thing, YOU know that. 
Just do it, write him a letter if its easier, but just get it over with. The longer you leave it the worse it will be for you and the marriage. Its not right to have any children until this has been done.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I'm the only one that needs to be ashamed here. He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way. I lived in the gutter.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not remorseless. I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.




Why so self deprecative? Re the hell thing: just confess to a priest (he won’t tell anyone; I guess?) and you are good to go. Isn’t it how it works?
Although...you don’t really believe in hell, do you? If you feel it’s preferable to live in blissful ignorance now than to spend an eternity in paradise.
Eternity is reaaaally long time.
Although for me, living with a husband who doesn’t want to **** me like he means it would seem like eternity in hell as well. (If I was a womanz, that is).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> ....you need to
> 
> repent to your husband as well.



Where does it say this?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Why so self deprecative? Re the hell thing: just confess to a priest (he won’t tell anyone; I guess?) and you are good to go. Isn’t it how it works?
> Although...you don’t really believe in hell, do you? If you feel it’s preferable to live in blissful ignorance now than to spend an eternity in paradise.
> Eternity is reaaaally long time.
> Although for me, living with a husband who doesn’t want to **** me like he means it would seem like eternity in hell as well. (If I was a womanz, that is).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats the RC way. She actually can confess to God directly but He will almost certainly want her to do the same to her husband. 
Christians believe in hell yes. We also believe in heaven.

Hell cant be compared to a so so sex life.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Thats the RC way. She actually can confess to God directly but He will almost certainly want her to do the same to her husband.
> Christians believe in hell yes. We also believe in heaven.


I meant that she can’t really believe in hell if she feels it’s better to spend eternity in hell than to tell her husband and suffer mild embarrassment for...10 minutes. That seems like an irrational choice.

Btw would she also have to go to hell if she left him for somebody more compatible?



Diana7 said:


> Hell cant be compared to a so so sex life.



If being desired is all you ever wanted and you have to live the rest of your life not being desired then why not?
What is actually going down in hell that’s so much worse? Does anyone have reliable intel on this?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lostinthought61

the shame here is not so much about the honesty with our past, let us not forgot it is our past that helps define who we are and what we want, and what we don't want. it helps us as we move forward in cultivating that relationship we seek not just in the person we find but as well as what we want out of the relationship, and yes that includes sex...what you have here is a stalemate...the game can not go forward and will never move until someone makes that move. here is a recommendation if you are to scare about telling him what you want....then rent movie or a book about it and tell him you have always been curious about trying this or that and you wan to did it with him. Piece together something a marriage that will satisfy the both of you


----------



## 269370

Does anyone actually believe their sex life will suddenly take off when she tells him details about her past sexual encounters?

Why not see if the sex thing can be fixed first with her husband and then think whether it’s worth it staying in a sexless marriage.

The way JTW writes is clear: her mind thinks she should stay and pretend to be this ‘good Christian wife’ but her body doesn’t want to.

Does anyone want to take a guess what usually happens in those circumstances? This whole deliberation to tell or not to tell is potentially a huge waste of time if their marriage is going to fall apart anyway.
(Sorry to be pessimistic but this has happened many times before. Over and over.)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.


 @Diana7 has told you the gospel truth. And, that's not just an adage.... I mean, the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ does, incredibly, and wonderfully, indeed tell us exactly what Diana told you.

The bible quotes the Lord Himself saying that hell was not made for man, rather for the devil and his angels. You can spend eternity with God, and with countless others who have repented of their sin, and their lives have been changed, forever, by the truth of this gospel. It is your choice....the Lord is also quoted in the bible as saying "....I have set before you life, and death....therefore, choose life....that you may live....".

His choice is offered to all people, rich and poor, young and old, experienced and not experienced. The itinerant preacher who wrote roughly half of the New Testament was once a terrorist who participated in the killing of christians... The credited author of the first 5 books of the Old Testament, Moses, was also the murderer of an Egyptian slave-driver. Yet, through forgiveness, and faith in God, these men's lives were utterly transformed by God's intervention (because they asked Him, and accepted Him) to the degree they led numerous other people to the "turning point" where they made their decision to ask God to intervene in their lives, and make them what He intended them to be.....

It is not an immediate process. The Lord works on us over years, and decades, through times when we are attentive to Him, and times when we "backslide", allow lies to come into our thought process. He is there when we make right decisions, and He is there when we make wrong decisions.

But like any journey, it begins with a single step. 

You are a believer. I can tell that from reading your words. I know that you know God not only exists, but that He is the creator, that you are made in His image, but you are coming to know that He is your Savior. 

There is one thing, in your life, that is more important, and more urgent, than telling your husband about your past. And, that is, that you go to God Himself, just as Diana told you, admit your sins, and begin to receive His mercy and His forgiveness. It begins with a simple, single prayer.
It is a prayer that God has been waiting to hear from you since He sent you to the world through your mother's womb. He has been there with you, in everything you have done, in everything you have learned, in your parents, in your schoolteachers. He is interested in every aspect of your life, from your marriage, to your eventual children, to your extended family, your career, your church.

To quote an old gospel song:

Your hands were made to help your neighbor.....
Your eyes were made to read God's word....

Today is the day you can begin to become what God made you to be.....one of those things is a wonderful and Godly christian wife.....

My love in Christ and my prayers are with you.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Does anyone actually believe their sex life will suddenly take off when she tells him details about her past sexual encounters?


I don't. But, I believe telling him the salient truth about her past is the "door". She cannot, because she is ashamed of her past, discuss sexual matters with her husband. This discussion, and the resulting cooperation between her and her husband, can create a satisfying and fulfilling sex life for both of them.

I also don't believe that "details" should really be told him, unless he specifically asks. And, then, only the specific question he's asking should be answered. The details will bring in more difficulties, not less.

I don't believe this transformation will happen "suddenly". I believe that it will require time, discussion, practice, and cooperation between both of them to achieve it.

I believe that the transformation is indeed possible, if both of these spouses approach each other with an open heart and mind, and a forgiving attitude..... he forgives her past, she forgives his lack of a past.

Yes, that's what I said.... she has to forgive him.....for his lack of experience, when he "funbles", and for the time in the past when he was inattentive to her sexual needs.



inmyprime said:


> The way JTW writes is clear: her mind thinks she should stay and pretend to be this ‘good Christian wife’ but her body doesn’t want to.


Being a good Christian wife does not preclude having rollicking good sex with her husband. Anything the two of them like doing together is not only allowed, it is encouraged by the scripture.

The scripture only enjoins that no one, other than the two marital partners, be brought into their marriage. This is where the OP will have to be very careful to accept her husband for who he is, and not want him to have the characteristics or behaviors of another man from her past.

It won't be easy..... but, if the OP believes her husband is "worth it".... then the time and efforts she spends will have a "payoff".


----------



## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> I'm the only one that needs to be ashamed here. He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way. I lived in the gutter.
> 
> I'm not remorseless. I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.


Darling, if this is what your church says, or if this is your understanding of the bible and what mainstream Christian Doctrine say, then you have no understanding of anything. 

That is in no way what the bible says at all. Remember when Jesus tells people about to stone the woman for adultery, "Let the one among you who is without sin cast the first stone! ". 

This is one of the primary tenants of the Christian Faith, if you don't understand anything else you should understand this. 

You have made mistakes, we all agree with that. But for you to live in shame and lie to your H about your past, that is what keeps you in bondage, and it will until you tell him the truth...


----------



## ABHale

JustTheWife said:


> I'm the only one that needs to be ashamed here. He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way. I lived in the gutter.
> 
> I'm not remorseless. I will accept punishment for everything for the rest of my life and i will burn in hell for everything I did. Believe me that i'm not without shame.


You don’t live in the gutter and if I ever implied that I’m sorry. You feel the way you do because you are living a lie with your husband. You have the ability to fix this or you two will continue in a less then happy marriage. 

The biggest thing I am seeing from you is something that another poster said as well. Some of your post on this thread and others show you miss the wild sex with other guys, more so their size. 

The only way to fix this is to be honest with your husband come what may. If the two of you work through it then you can be honest about what you need. 

One thing. As far as I have read you never cheated on him. You just was never honest with what went on before the two of you started dating. If you stay together don’t let him take it out on you continuously. Forgiveness and moving on with him asking questions is one thing. Forgiveness and him treating badly is something completely different, don’t take it and don’t stay if it continues. You made a mistake by lying to him, not a unforgivable action.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Btw would she also have to go to hell if she left him for somebody more compatible?


I'm going to give this one a try. 

1) there is no sin, none, which God cannot forgive, cleanse of, and provide an eternal life in heaven in spite of. Divorce is not greater than any other sin, and it is not an unpardonable sin.

That being said, it is a very serious disobedience for a christian to use God's forgiveness as a "sin license". It is truly a rejection of the sacrifice God made through His Son, and makes a mockery of His death, burial, and resurrection.

God does not want people to divorce, and He has given us, and taught us, means which are, in most cases, sufficient to avoid divorce, and live productive and fulfilling lives with the person we chose to be our spouse. God allows divorce for the "tough cases".... where a spouse has a continual pattern of adultery (more than just a one-time "fling"), is physically and mentally abusive in an incorrigible way, or has abandoned the marital partner for a long period of time.

Old Testament scripture allowed divorce of wives for sexual refusal. The OP is not being refused sex by her husband, it is only boring sex. This does not meet this divorce criterion under the Mosaic Covenant.

2) the OP does not have biblical "grounds" for a divorce under the New Covenant. Her husband has not committed adultery, he has not gone to live with another woman, or married someone else. The bible never encourages anyone to divorce for any reason. Even in the cases of adultery, forgiveness, and restoration, is more in keeping with the character of God than is divorce.

3) I don't think even the liberal law of man permits divorce so as to "have somebody more compatible". Divorce statutes are created to protect marital partners who cannot reconcile their differences from unfair treatment at the hands of the other partner. They are not created to allow women who want a bigger ****, or men who want bigger tits, to go find someone else who they like better.

4) the OP continues to come here, and post here, because she does not believe in divorce. She does not want a divorce, she wants her marriage to work with the man she gave her heart to. 

Besides, the OP recognizes that the sexual schism between her and her husband has been created by her actions, not his. If there is to be a divorce, then it would be her husband who deserves any benefit it might bring him. Personally, I think it would only bring him a broken heart, because from what the OP says, he loves her totally and completely.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> He did the right thing and lived life according to God's way.


You are, by God's mercy, here at a "crossroads" in your life. Please be sure, at this crossroads, you choose the _cross_ road... it is a great opportunity God has given you....you can still "do the right thing" and you can "live life according to God's way".....

My beloved young sister, all of us. Every last one of us, have done things in our lives for which we deserve to burn in hell. But God loved us, and God loves you.... even though we, and you, made a mess out of our lives.....He offered us a place with Him.....


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I meant that she can’t really believe in hell if she feels it’s better to spend eternity in hell than to tell her husband and suffer mild embarrassment for...10 minutes. That seems like an irrational choice.
> 
> Btw would she also have to go to hell if she left him for somebody more compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If being desired is all you ever wanted and you have to live the rest of your life not being desired then why not?
> What is actually going down in hell that’s so much worse? Does anyone have reliable intel on this?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Bible is clear that lying and deception are wrong. Also that honesty, repenting and confessing to others is right. 

Hell is a place were all that is good and light wont be.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I meant that she can’t really believe in hell if she feels it’s better to spend eternity in hell than to tell her husband and suffer mild embarrassment for...10 minutes. That seems like an irrational choice.
> 
> Btw would she also have to go to hell if she left him for somebody more compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If being desired is all you ever wanted and you have to live the rest of your life not being desired then why not?
> What is actually going down in hell that’s so much worse? Does anyone have reliable intel on this?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For a Christian marriage is for life unless there is some sort of sexual immorality. So being discontent with sex is a very weak reason to be wanting a divorce. Its one of the many things that needs to be worked on, but until she is honest with him their marriage will never thrive. It was built on very rocky foundations.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> For a Christian marriage is for life unless there is some sort of sexual immorality. So being discontent with sex is a very weak reason to be wanting a divorce. Its one of the many things that needs to be worked on, but until she is honest with him their marriage will never thrive. It was built on very rocky foundations.




Crap. So she’s stuck with a dud?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> He is interested in every aspect of your life,



So does he watch over everyone all the time? Because some of the stuff my wife asks me to do...I am not sure I would be comfortable for anyone else to see it. And I’m not sure it will be ‘encouraged’ as such. Although I more than happily do it.

It’s a shame he didn’t make my brain in such a way that I can easily accept something I have never seen, as truth. It’s also a shame that I will be probably saying hello to JTW in hell because of this while all the murderers and rapists who repented at the last moment will be having a fun time upstairs. Kind of unfair if you ask me. I see the world around me and I can not imagine that anyone gives a **** about anything that is happening to anything. I wish I could see it differently.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Also why is our society not modelled on those values? Why can’t you go to a judge or whoever and say you are really really really sorry for raping someone and be forgiven? (Even if it’s the 20th time you have done it?)

Why do the majority of husbands not forgive their cheating wives even though they are also (mostly) really sorry?
Shouldn’t we all take an example from God? Why don’t we?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SGr

inmyprime said:


> Also why is our society not modelled on those values? Why can’t you go to a judge or whoever and say you are really really really sorry for raping someone and be forgiven? (Even if it’s the 20th time you have done it?)
> 
> Why do the majority of husbands not forgive their cheating wives even though they are also (mostly) really sorry?
> Shouldn’t we all take an example from God? Why don’t we?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like a topic for a different thread.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

Diana7 said:


> The Bible is clear that lying and deception are wrong. Also that honesty, repenting and confessing to others is right.


The most direct reference to this kind of situation comes from Jesus Himself in the "Sermon on the Mount" discourse of Matthew 5:23,24:

_So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
_


----------



## 269370

SGr said:


> Sounds like a topic for a different thread.
> 
> Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk




Sorry. Thinking out loud.
Isn’t the whole god thing for a different thread too? Yet every second post there’s something about repentance, forgiveness and sin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Crap. So she’s stuck with a dud?


It would be unfortunate, indeed, if she considers him a "dud". The fact is, if she hadn't engaged in premarital sex, she would have no basis of comparison. She would not now be so extremely dissatisfied, and would have no problem discussing improvements to their sexual activity with her husband.

I think the lie is a "wedge" between her and her husband, and any activities which could improve their sexual fulfillment.

That being said, I don't think she is permanently "stuck with a dud". There are a couple of predictable outcomes of bringing truth into their marriage:

1) her husband will be mortified, and will want nothing further to do with her. He will likely, in that case, divorce her. Then, she would not be "stuck".
Personally, I don't think this will happen.

2) her husband will understand the reason why she lied to him about her virginity. He will empathize with her shame, and forgive her for it. As you correctly state that we all should do, God will be this young man's example, and his chief good.

2a) if her attitude is also one of forgiveness, she will empathize with his shame at feeling inadequate; and she will patiently and lovingly help him to develop sexual abilities which will begin to please her. She will do this largely because she is thankful to God for forgiving her, and because she is thankful to God for providing her with a good and upright husband who will fulfill his promises to cherish her all the rest of his life. She will thoroughly understand that none of those former men would even come close to being the Godly man her husband is. She may have to be patient for the sex to improve, but there will be a certain payoff. Her husband, as he begins to actually please her, and she brings her approval to him, will find his own needs being splendidly met. This will encourage and edify him, and cause him to seek ways to please her more. Bye, bye dud.

2b) if her attitude is one of entitlement, disdain, and resentment, her husband may indeed forgive her for lying to him, but the marriage will fail. Then, she will no longer be stuck with a dud, and she will no longer be stuck with the man she married because of his wonderful devotion to God, the results that made on his character, the wonderful father he would have been for her children. She will be quite free to then go get schtuped by superschlong.... who will be there for booty call, but will be long-gone when responsibility comes.

I believe the OP is the kind of woman described in 2a. That's what I read in her words, those are the attributes which she will espouse, and she will look to God to fill the "gaps" until she and her husband get to a better bedroom program.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Isn’t the whole god thing for a different thread too? Yet every second post there’s something about repentance, forgiveness and sin.


That's because this problem was created by sin. The antidote for sin is repentance, and restoration begins with forgiveness. 

There is no other solution to the OP's problem, except to call her husband a "dud" and move on. If I thought this was her desire, and the solution she was after, I wouldn't waste a minute of my time or hers.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> It would be unfortunate, indeed, if she considers him a "dud". The fact is, if she hadn't engaged in premarital sex, she would have no basis of comparison. She would not now be so extremely dissatisfied, and would have no problem discussing improvements to their sexual activity with her husband.



I do t think that is true. I have only ever had sex with one woman however I can easily tell when we have amazing sex or not as amazing sex. I also don’t think you need a special sixth sense to know if someone desires you or not. 
Why would, then, many women (or men) who married virgins end up cheating? When it comes to infidelity, there’s literally no relationship whether you married a virgin or not. People who cheat must be dissatisfied with something, otherwise they wouldn’t be cheating.
It really makes no sense to me whatsoever to use her sexual activities prior to marriage as a reason for their lack of sexual compatibility.

Is it not possible that they are just sexually incompatible? And would always have been, whether she was ‘experienced’ or not?

Ironically, it’s precisely that experience that can save people A LOT of trouble later on by finding out early enough whether they like sex with each other or not. There are so many people on TAM and IRL who wished they found that out before getting married.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> It would be unfortunate, indeed, if she considers him a "dud". The fact is, if she hadn't engaged in premarital sex, she would have no basis of comparison. She would not now be so extremely dissatisfied, and would have no problem discussing improvements to their sexual activity with her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the lie is a "wedge" between her and her husband, and any activities which could improve their sexual fulfillment.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, I don't think she is permanently "stuck with a dud". There are a couple of predictable outcomes of bringing truth into their marriage:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) her husband will be mortified, and will want nothing further to do with her. He will likely, in that case, divorce her. Then, she would not be "stuck".
> 
> Personally, I don't think this will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) her husband will understand the reason why she lied to him about her virginity. He will empathize with her shame, and forgive her for it. As you correctly state that we all should do, God will be this young man's example, and his chief good.
> 
> 
> 
> 2a) if her attitude is also one of forgiveness, she will empathize with his shame at feeling inadequate; and she will patiently and lovingly help him to develop sexual abilities which will begin to please her. She will do this largely because she is thankful to God for forgiving her, and because she is thankful to God for providing her with a good and upright husband who will fulfill his promises to cherish her all the rest of his life. She will thoroughly understand that none of those former men would even come close to being the Godly man her husband is. She may have to be patient for the sex to improve, but there will be a certain payoff. Her husband, as he begins to actually please her, and she brings her approval to him, will find his own needs being splendidly met. This will encourage and edify him, and cause him to seek ways to please her more. Bye, bye dud.
> 
> 
> 
> 2b) if her attitude is one of entitlement, disdain, and resentment, her husband may indeed forgive her for lying to him, but the marriage will fail. Then, she will no longer be stuck with a dud, and she will no longer be stuck with the man she married because of his wonderful devotion to God, the results that made on his character, the wonderful father he would have been for her children. She will be quite free to then go get schtuped by superschlong.... who will be there for booty call, but will be long-gone when responsibility comes.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the OP is the kind of woman described in 2a. That's what I read in her words, those are the attributes which she will espouse, and she will look to God to fill the "gaps" until she and her husband get to a better bedroom program.




2a is a beautifully written novel. I doubt that’s how real life works though. But one should not abandon hope.

My predictions (since we are doing predictions):

1. I think what will happen if she tells him (depending how far south they live) is that he will not divorce her and be surprisingly fine with it even if a little taken aback at first. she will feel a big relief from not keeping this secret anymore but also empty because she gave up a part of herself that was part of who she is. Her attempts to ‘teach’ him to desire her more will not amount to much and the husband will feel even more inadequate, now also knowing that he is being compared with many other men. 

2. Husband is a closet homosexual and will be relieved to know and perhaps confess his own past which may shock JTW. (That would be a twist worthy of Keyser Söze).

3. JTW will keep the secret and post what a terrible person she is (her words not mine) because it’s partly arousing for her to have secrets and lead a double life on the one hand while being a good wife to her husband on the other hand. 

Unfortunately due to her repressed background, she doesn’t know that many couples lead such a double life already (as part of living out their sexual fantasies). Good wives by day, dirty ****s by night (all with the same husband, who also desires them).

All 3 options are imo pretty likely but I think 3 is most likely. Unless they live in Texas. In which case God only knows what will happen. (Maybe even He doesn’t).




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Crap. So she’s stuck with a dud?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You have a weird idea of marriage. BTW he isnt a dud, he is a man who loves his wife and is being lied to and deceived. 

Marriage is all about compromise and communication and working at things. You don't go crying to mummy just because you dont get EXACTLY what YOU want in the marriage. My husband was very disappointed with the sex life in his first marriage. Did he run away and abandon his wife and children? No, he believes that we keep the promises we make and fulfil our responsibilities. The marriage only ended after 25 years because she found another man. if she hadn't divorced him they would still be married. That's what a man of integrity does.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> You have a weird idea of marriage. BTW he isnt a dud, he is a man who loves his wife and is being lied to and deceived.
> 
> Marriage is all about compromise and communication and working at things. You don't go crying to mummy just because you dont get EXACTLY what YOU want in the marriage. My husband was very disappointed with the sex life in his first marriage. Did he run away and abandon his wife and children? No, he believes that we keep the promises we make and fulfil our responsibilities. The marriage only ended after 25 years because she found another man. if she hadn't divorced him they would still be married. That's what a man of integrity does.


Well if your husband was disappointed with the sex in his previous marriage then I presume his XW was also not thrilled. Was it in hindsight a good thing that he 'stuck it out' with her for so long just because of the whole promise thing? Of course you should keep promises. But not if both people are miserable; then it's probably better to mutually agree: 'you know what, it's not really working. God is probably not going to be ecstatic about it, but it's better for the both of us to call it a day and keep the happy memories'. I mean he was unhappy for a *quarter of a century*! Why?

I mean expecting 100% happiness from a marriage in all aspects at all times is a complete fairy tale and presumably you wouldn't be on thee forums either if all those aspects were completely fulfilled (?) in your life. But if it's an unbearable situation, one should have the courage to change it (ideally), if nothing else works. Major sexual incompatibility is a pretty big and fundamental thing.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Was it in hindsight a good thing that he 'stuck it out' with her for so long just because of the whole promise thing?


I think it depends upon the person him/herself, and what the person holds to be their "standard" of conduct.

I didn't endure unhappiness in marriage for a quarter-century, although the total of my two unhappy marriages was 23 years. In retrospect...I'm glad I kept my promise, although I think I would have divorced my first wife for her multiple adulteries when our sons grew up and moved away.


----------



## Hidden truth

It may sound cookie cutter, but it is best to be honest in this situation. For instance lying over the taste of your best friends soup may not have heavy ramifications, yet in the end people will notice her soup is nasty(no soup for you). With every lie there is a consequence (reaping and sowing). Yet living in chains for the rest of your marriage will be like heaping hot coals on your head. Guilt, depression, even anger are all human emotions that can and cannot be justified according to the certain circumstance. Be angry sin not, for instance prooves that being angry is not wrong. Many people will say hide it, "there is a way which seems right unto man, but the path there of leads to deat" the heart may scream justly to stay in its comfy tormented state for marital security, yet; "the heart is deceitful above all things who can know it". Your body has a way of warning you that something is wrong, it's called pain. Your mind works the same way for your mental health, it's called a conscience. Your spirit can be affect by your heart or the Holy Spirit. It is up to you to make the hard decisions in life that tests your daily walk. Ask yourself, how would you feel if the tables were turned, how will this affect your future if you continue to live this lie? What will you choose?


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Well if your husband was disappointed with the sex in his previous marriage then I presume his XW was also not thrilled. Was it in hindsight a good thing that he 'stuck it out' with her for so long just because of the whole promise thing? Of course you should keep promises. But not if both people are miserable; then it's probably better to mutually agree: 'you know what, it's not really working. God is probably not going to be ecstatic about it, but it's better for the both of us to call it a day and keep the happy memories'. I mean he was unhappy for a *quarter of a century*! Why?
> 
> I mean expecting 100% happiness from a marriage in all aspects at all times is a complete fairy tale and presumably you wouldn't be on thee forums either if all those aspects were completely fulfilled (?) in your life. But if it's an unbearable situation, one should have the courage to change it (ideally), if nothing else works. Major sexual incompatibility is a pretty big and fundamental thing.


For us as Christians marriage isn't something we throw away just because one area of the marriage may not be that good. Its for better or for worse, those are the promises we make. 
She controlled the sex, if and when they had it. She rejected him sexually countless times. I think she was fine with having sex on her terms when and if she wanted it. 
He took his responsibilities seriously and would never have divorced her, that's the man he is. He doesnt believe in running away from hard things. He also has a very strong faith. 

We have a very good and happy marriage. I am not here because of that.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> For us as Christians marriage isn't something we throw away just because one area of the marriage may not be that good. Its for better or for worse, those are the promises we make.
> She controlled the sex, if and when they had it. She rejected him sexually countless times. I think she was fine with having sex on her terms when and if she wanted it.
> He took his responsibilities seriously and would never have divorced her, that's the man he is. He doesnt believe in running away from hard things. He also has a very strong faith.
> 
> We have a very good and happy marriage. I am not here because of that.


Was his XW Christian as well?


----------



## oldtruck

ABHale said:


> He has no clue apparently that she had been very active. But I always knew when my wife just wasn’t into it at times. I’m sure the first time they were together and he slid right in, something of the truth went through his mind.
> 
> Why should he had. He told op from the start of their friendship that he was wanting. Then she would go off and get her brains f’d out. O I forgot she told her husband that she was waiting as well at that time. She has done this herself.


Slid just right in. That dude had no idea she was already broken in.
He had no experience to compare. Also he has shame. Most likely he
went the virgin route because he was terminally shy and or had poor
social skills and could not get a GF.

When was the last time the OP posted?


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Was his XW Christian as well?


Yes, one who went way off track when she divorced him for no reason. She disobeyed God and hasnt been to church since although still has a faith I think.


----------



## Diana7

oldtruck said:


> Slid just right in. That dude had no idea she was already broken in.
> He had no experience to compare. Also he has shame. Most likely he
> went the virgin route because he was terminally shy and or had poor
> social skills and could not get a GF.
> 
> When was the last time the OP posted?


Thats so wrong. Many Christians who have all sort of personalities and characters wait for marriage because its what is right for us. Nothing to do with his social skills or lack of a girlfriend. Far more to do with his strong character and integrity.


----------



## TJW

oldtruck said:


> When was the last time the OP posted?


Yesterday about 5:30 AM


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> Thats so wrong. Many Christians who have all sort of personalities and characters wait for marriage because its what is right for us. Nothing to do with his social skills or lack of a girlfriend. Far more to do with his strong character and integrity.


True. I wasn't a wallflower, and I chose to remain a virgin until I married.

But, of course, I am substandard because i DIDN'T remain in a horrible, lonely sexless marriage. I was disappointing enough to God to get out. Oh well, we can't all be perfect....


----------



## TJW

personofinterest said:


> Oh well, we can't all be perfect....


None of us can be perfect. in fact, some of us can't even be good. When I look on the inside of me, I'm filled with wickedness, immorality, sin, rebellion, selfishness.....the only claim I have to "christianity" is that I have a Savior.


----------



## ABHale

Diana7 said:


> The Bible is clear that lying and deception are wrong. Also that honesty, repenting and confessing to others is right.
> 
> Hell is a place were all that is good and light wont be.





inmyprime said:


> Sorry. Thinking out loud.
> Isn’t the whole god thing for a different thread too? Yet every second post there’s something about repentance, forgiveness and sin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No it isn’t. Because JustTheWife spoke of her faith in God from the start. You on the other hand have done everything you can to belittle the Christian beliefs that she holds. She is repentant of her past yet you say it is her triumph against her own beliefs. 

What is the verse, it is better to have a millstone tied around ones neck and cast into the deep then to lead astray a child of Christ. 

I don’t know it exactly but I believe it gets the point across.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> None of us can be perfect. in fact, some of us can't even be good. When I look on the inside of me, I'm filled with wickedness, immorality, sin, rebellion, selfishness.....the only claim I have to "christianity" is that I have a Savior.



I find that it makes more sense to accept some of these flaws in part (because they are part of who we are) while trying to live a moral and ethical life as much as possible. Maybe it’s the same mechanism as asking for forgiveness but I think if **** goes down due to some of my faults, nobody else should take the blame but me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> No it isn’t. Because JustTheWife spoke of her faith in God from the start. You on the other hand have done everything you can to belittle the Christian beliefs that she holds. She is repentant of her past yet you say it is her triumph against her own beliefs.



No, that’s not what I’m doing at all. I actually think she’s being way too hard on herself. As are others. 
I like most of the basic Christian tenets. I make fun of what some people do with them, how they preach them to others without looking at themselves and the occasional poke at biblical literalism.
I think if everyone actually followed the basic tenets, the world would be a much better place. 
But Christians do as many ****ty things as any other people which makes me wonder how deep the faith goes; I mean if you say you believe in something, shouldn’t you follow through with it? Otherwise why tell everybody something you believe, but don’t completely do it (and rely on the ‘saviour’ to fix everything in the end). It’s how hypocrisy starts.

And of course, it will be my post deemed off topic even though I was mischaracterised.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ABHale

inmyprime said:


> No, that’s not what I’m doing at all. I actually think she’s being way too hard on herself. As are others.
> I like most of the basic Christian tenets. I make fun of what some people do with them, how they preach them to others without looking at themselves and the occasional poke at biblical literalism.
> I think if everyone actually followed the basic tenets, the world would be a much better place.
> But Christians do as many ****ty things as any other people which makes me wonder how deep the faith goes; I mean if you say you believe in something, shouldn’t you follow through with it? Otherwise why tell everybody something you believe, but don’t completely do it (and rely on the ‘saviour’ to fix everything in the end). It’s how hypocrisy starts.
> 
> And of course, it will be my post deemed off topic even though I was mischaracterised.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why shouldn’t JustTheWife be hard on herself for lying to her now husband from the first time they met?

It’s not her husbands fault with what’s going on right now. According to her he lives a true Christian’s life. But you have cut him to shreds in your post.

But I do agree with most of what you have said above. I have always called them Sunday Christians, saints on Sunday but act like the devil during the week. That really turned me against the church in my late teens and early twenties. Then I realized it doesn’t matter one bit how they live. It matters how I live my life. 

As for JTW, she will not find any peace until she talks with her husband. She feels guilty for lying to him and it not her being to hard on herself. She knows what she did was wrong. 

Her having sex before hand is between herself and God. 

Her lying to her husband is between the two of them.


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> True. I wasn't a wallflower, and I chose to remain a virgin until I married.
> 
> But, of course, I am substandard because i DIDN'T remain in a horrible, lonely sexless marriage. I was disappointing enough to God to get out. Oh well, we can't all be perfect....


How do you know that God is disappointed in you? He isn't. 
My husbands first marriage wasn't happy. After 23 years she met another ma and divorced him. He felt guilty and ashamed as if he had failed. One day God clearly said to him, I have opened the door for you now walk through it. A telling off really and the implication was that God has used her sin to set him free from an unhappy and more or less loveless marriage. Not long after that we met/married.


----------



## 269370

ABHale said:


> Why shouldn’t JustTheWife be hard on herself for lying to her now husband from the first time they met?
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not her husbands fault with what’s going on right now. According to her he lives a true Christian’s life. But you have cut him to shreds in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> But I do agree with most of what you have said above. I have always called them Sunday Christians, saints on Sunday but act like the devil during the week. That really turned me against the church in my late teens and early twenties. Then I realized it doesn’t matter one bit how they live. It matters how I live my life.
> 
> 
> 
> As for JTW, she will not find any peace until she talks with her husband. She feels guilty for lying to him and it not her being to hard on herself. She knows what she did was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Her having sex before hand is between herself and God.
> 
> 
> 
> Her lying to her husband is between the two of them.




No, I didn’t mean to give out the impression that he’s in anyway at fault. Or cutting him to ‘shreds’.
What I meant was that: from HER perspective he’s a dud. There may well be a woman out there for him who he might be suitable for. I’m sure he’s a perfectly nice guy. Probably even too nice  I just don’t think he’s suitable for JTW. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad person or inadequate. He’s inadequate FOR HER (clearly).

JTW’s ‘problem’ is that she has one image in her mind (the whole ‘good Christian wife’ dream), that completely contradicts to who she actually is. The first step for her is to accept who she is and what kind of life she wants (that having sex before marriage or wanting kinky sex or a husband who wants wife in a ‘filthy’ way is perfectly ok). Many people have sex before marriage (to try stuff out) and are still perfectly ‘eligible’ Christians.
I’m not sure she’s being advised from the right angle: of course she shouldn’t lie and I am sure once she accepts herself for who she is, she may find that it is all but completely unnecessary to lie just to conform to something she is not and never has been (but presumably such image has been somehow drilled into her).
I maybe said that before, but all the ‘strict catholic girls’ were for some reason the absolutely kinkiest ones in school. I have no idea why. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe not. But it seems that when something is ‘strictly forbidden’, somehow there’s more desire to experience it...Ask that wretched snake why  




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> How do you know that God is disappointed in you? He isn't.
> My husbands first marriage wasn't happy. After 23 years she met another ma and divorced him. He felt guilty and ashamed as if he had failed. One day God clearly said to him, I have opened the door for you now walk through it. A telling off really and the implication was that God has used her sin to set him free from an unhappy and more or less loveless marriage. Not long after that we met/married.



I think it’s great that that’s how you met. But what about all the good Christians who remain single after divorce and die alone? Why is God not talking to them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhusband0005

inmyprime said:


> No, I didn’t mean to give out the impression that he’s in anyway at fault. Or cutting him to ‘shreds’.
> What I meant was that: from HER perspective he’s a dud. There may well be a woman out there for him who he might be suitable for. I’m sure he’s a perfectly nice guy. Probably even too nice  I just don’t think he’s suitable for JTW. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad person or inadequate. He’s inadequate FOR HER (clearly).
> 
> JTW’s ‘problem’ is that she has one image in her mind (the whole ‘good Christian wife’ dream), that completely contradicts to who she actually is. The first step for her is to accept who she is and what kind of life she wants (that having sex before marriage or wanting kinky sex or a husband who wants wife in a ‘filthy’ way is perfectly ok). Many people have sex before marriage (to try stuff out) and are still perfectly ‘eligible’ Christians.
> I’m not sure she’s being advised from the right angle: of course she shouldn’t lie and I am sure once she accepts herself for who she is, she may find that it is all but completely unnecessary to lie just to conform to something she is not and never has been (but presumably such image has been somehow drilled into her).
> I maybe said that before, but all the ‘strict catholic girls’ were for some reason the absolutely kinkiest ones in school. I have no idea why. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe not. But it seems that when something is ‘strictly forbidden’, somehow there’s more desire to experience it...Ask that wretched snake why
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree with this completely, JTW is a different person than she felt she should be. She made the fatal mistake of thinking she could become the person her community demanded. She had already discovered her sexuality went beyond what a conservative christian might be comfortable with. I think because of her upbringing she probably had a lot of shame and guilt regarding her sexual past and saw being with a pure conservative christian man was a way to redeeming her self. The problem is sexual desires are very powerful and trying to repress normal and healthy desire is very difficult long term. It would be great if she could communicate her needs and desires to her husband but I get no indication he will be comfortable with it. 

IMP you are right I went to catholic school and the most churchy girls were very often the most wild. But I think that goes for anyone who represses their true selves. There was a kid in my class whose parents were very very restrictive, he was never allowed to go to any parties, dances, prom, he couldn't date nothing. It was all academics and church related activities. Well it worked out partly because he ended up with a full scholarship to Cal Tech. The problem is once he got there and had freedom for the first time in his life he went completely nuts. He didn't even finish his first year do to non stop partying. 

There are many Christians, who are completely happy and satisfied to live within the conservative constraints of the bible and I think that is great everyone should live their best life the way they are most happy, and there are surely couples who are conservative members of their church who live by the bible in all aspects of their lives but have wild sex and enjoy fetishes and kinks together in the marital bed. There is no right on wrong way to live within ones faith. I don't believe a loving and just God would judge a loving married couple for busting out their sex toys and restraints and breaking a few beds. But it will be hard for this marriage to survive the sexual disconnect if they can't at least meet in the middle and even then JTW will still not be satisfied and that can lead to bigger problems.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> I think it’s great that that’s how you met. But what about all the good Christians who remain single after divorce and die alone? Why is God not talking to them?


I cannot claim to know the mind of the Almighty, I also cannot say whether God is speaking to them, or not. What I know, and think that applies to your question, is that all people, christian, jewish, muslim, people of all faiths make choices. They make choices based upon their belief-system, and their current understanding of that system, when coonsidered with the individual person's past experiential knowledge.

I don't know about faiths other than christian. Christians, by and large, believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. One inspired author was Paul the apostle. In his letters, he stated that he thought that even someone widowed would be happier if they remained single. He was also clear that this was his opinion, and not a commandment from God. But this scripture is allowed by God to remain part of the biblical canon through 2 millenia and, I think it has appeared in all translations and paraphrases which have been generated.

Even in the case of Mr. Diana7, God told him he was now "free" to remarry, not that he should, not that he should choose a specific woman, not that he should remain single. The choice was left to Mr. Diana7. What God spoke to him is completely in accord with the bible teaching upon the subject of remarriage.

Therefore, whether God has spoken directly to that person, or not, God has provided an identical knowledge availability to all people, and, if God was indeed to speak directly to a divorced person, what God would say, regarding this subject of remarriage, would give the same direction and guidance as if that person had read it him/herself from the scripture, or had received instruction from a clergy person who conveyed the biblical wisdom.

The point I'm trying to make, is that God has indeed, spoken to all christians, and has presented the same options as He did to Mr. Diana7.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> How do you know that God is disappointed in you? He isn't.
> My husbands first marriage wasn't happy. After 23 years she met another ma and divorced him. He felt guilty and ashamed as if he had failed. One day God clearly said to him, I have opened the door for you now walk through it. A telling off really and the implication was that God has used her sin to set him free from an unhappy and more or less loveless marriage. Not long after that we met/married.


I shouldn't have posted that at all. It was pure projection. I had several people in my life tell me I was sinning when I finally left, and one who called me an adulteress for remarrying. It mostly doesn't bother me, but sometimes I "trigger." Adultery is sexual sin. So is violating I cor. 7, which my ex did with impunity.

But that is another reason premarriage honesty is vital. We were both virgins, but while I was very much looking forward to sexual intimacy, my ex really didn't care one way or another. Had we talked more openly before marriage, maybe it would have saved both of us a lot of hurt.


----------



## personofinterest

> She made the fatal mistake of thinking she could become the person her community demanded. She had already discovered her sexuality went beyond what a conservative christian might be comfortable with.


This is why I chuckle sometimes. The things people who don't have an experiential understanding of Christianity say.

Have you read Song of Solomon? We Christians can be wild - we just believe that is should happen within the bonds of marriage.

And as far as forgiveness goes - that comes after repentance. And part of repentance is honesty.

This isn't hard. And one of the reasons JTW is struggling is because, unlike those who mock her faith, she KNOWS these things.


----------



## BluesPower

personofinterest said:


> I shouldn't have posted that at all. It was pure projection. I had several people in my life tell me I was sinning when I finally left, and one who called me an adulteress for remarrying. It mostly doesn't bother me, but sometimes I "trigger." Adultery is sexual sin. So is violating I cor. 7, which my ex did with impunity.
> 
> But that is another reason premarriage honesty is vital. We were both virgins, but while I was very much looking forward to sexual intimacy, my ex really didn't care one way or another. Had we talked more openly before marriage, maybe it would have saved both of us a lot of hurt.


And this is one of the points that make "Christian" people look bad to the secular world. 

You were in a loveless marriage and there is no way that GOD wanted you to stay in that. 

People that stay these things are actually not Christians at all, they just think they are. 

You have nothing to be ashamed of, and I think you know that...


----------



## personofinterest

BluesPower said:


> And this is one of the points that make "Christian" people look bad to the secular world.
> 
> You were in a loveless marriage and there is no way that GOD wanted you to stay in that.
> 
> People that stay these things are actually not Christians at all, they just think they are.
> 
> You have nothing to be ashamed of, and I think you know that...


Well, in their defense, the Bible says in English that if a man divorces a woman except for adultery he is sinning. God also says "I hate divorce."

If you do some real study into the times and the original language....it's not so cut and dried. Hebrew men were divorcing their women left and right. Even the priests were divorcing so they could legally get someone else. And since women basically had no rights, and no one wanted a "used" woman, women were in poverty, left alone.

And many scholars will say that sexual sin and adultery are synonymous in principle. So while my ex didn't "cheat" on me per se, he definitely unilaterally cheated me out of a sex life, which violates scripture.

But I digress.

I do believe this commitment will prevent OP's husband from divorcing her when she tells him. I can only hope that same supposed understanding of scripture will remind Him what God says about forgiveness and bitterness so that he doesn't make it her scarlet letter to give him the upper hand.


----------



## 269370

BluesPower said:


> And this is one of the points that make "Christian" people look bad to the secular world.
> 
> 
> 
> You were in a loveless marriage and there is no way that GOD wanted you to stay in that.
> 
> 
> 
> People that stay these things are actually not Christians at all, they just think they are.
> 
> 
> 
> You have nothing to be ashamed of, and I think you know that...




And then there are those who believe (just a few messages up) that God doesn’t want you to give up on a marriage that is challenging and that you shouldn’t just give up and run away from hard things. (Also a perfectly reasonable stance).
How do you know what he is really thinking or what he wants you to do? (Rhetorical question). Which makes you feel better?
You make your choices, God ‘follows’ regardless.

And for the record: I think it’s perfectly reasonable to stay and try and improve a difficult marriage just as it is reasonable to leave a difficult marriage. Why do we always need to justify ourselves to anyone? (Including God).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hinterdir

personofinterest said:


> This is why I chuckle sometimes. The things people who don't have an experiential understanding of Christianity say.
> 
> Have you read Song of Solomon? We Christians can be wild - we just believe that is should happen within the bonds of marriage.
> 
> And as far as forgiveness goes - that comes after repentance. And part of repentance is honesty.
> 
> This isn't hard. And one of the reasons JTW is struggling is because, unlike those who mock her faith, she KNOWS these things.


Yeah, it is a stereotype that anyone who is religious or a Christian thinks sex is "dirty" they are boring sexually....etc. That's idiotic BS. Scripture just says sex is between a man and his wife and they are to be faithful to each other. That's pretty much it. Once you are married you can rock each other's world. People just don't want to hear that running around drunk at bars and having tons off causal sex with people who aren't their spouses is dirty. 

It says *"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge." *Once you are married, your good. Have as much sex as you want, explore each other, try new things together, satisfy each other. If God created our bodies and created sex and made us to feel romance, desire, excitement in meeting each other and falling in love it is silly to say that people of faith think sex is dirty. 

Adulterers and fornicators are the only ones God called out. If he's forbidden that than it must be unhealthy and not good.


----------



## happyhusband0005

personofinterest said:


> This is why I chuckle sometimes. The things people who don't have an experiential understanding of Christianity say.
> 
> Have you read Song of Solomon? We Christians can be wild - we just believe that is should happen within the bonds of marriage.
> 
> And as far as forgiveness goes - that comes after repentance. And part of repentance is honesty.
> 
> This isn't hard. And one of the reasons JTW is struggling is because, unlike those who mock her faith, she KNOWS these things.


Yes everything you say is exactly my point, christians can and plenty are wild within their marriage. However the reality is in very conservative church communities many children are raised that natural carnal desires are sinful. I know this because I was one of those catholic school educated children. I was an alter boy, until the priest tossed me down a flight of stairs story for a different day. The fact remains JTW made a decision to hide her true self in response to her "experiential understanding" of her christian community, for better or worse she was ashamed. And I do understand why she lied at the beginning. It's not like she met a new guy and immediately felt oh I better tell him about my rebellious wild past. Then time goes on and it becomes harder and harder to tell her truth out of fear of judgement. She was between a rock and a hard place. Her faith is very important to her, she wanted a man that shared that faith. I think it would also be disingenuous to try and say that her community would not judge her behavior, again I was a member of this community. 

Honesty on her part would have probably led to the end of her relationship and that probably then and it very likely would now. Now she is all twisted up because if she leaves him because her sexual needs are not being she might as well have a scarlet letter tattoo put on her forehead. Sure there will be some who understand but even those who do will not likely support her in public. 

Sorry @JustTheWife when this thread began my understanding was this was an otherwise happy marriage and my advice was keep it to yourself, but now knowing the full situation, my opinion has changed. If you have tried to get him to step it up for lack of a better phrase, and he has not I think you might have to tell him more. Maybe by coming clean, maybe with the help of your clergy, he will come to acceptance and forgiveness and then you can gently work on improving things in the bedroom. I fear otherwise you frustration will grow and rip you apart anyway.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> I find that it makes more sense to accept some of these flaws in part (because they are part of who we are) while trying to live a moral and ethical life as much as possible.


This is how committed christians live their lives. We understand these flaws are part of us, and you are correct, it is the mechanism of repentance, leading to forgiveness.



inmyprime said:


> I think if **** goes down due to some of my faults, nobody else should take the blame but me.


That's what the bible teaches, as the condition ubder which we receive forgiveness. You are correct, this is the mechanism under which our Savior saves us from our sins. Through Jesus as the prototypical example of the innocent suffering for the actions of the guilty, we come to undestand that when **** goes down, it hurts innocent others, while we, the guilty, deserve the penalty, and not them.


----------



## TJW

And, no matter what we do, christian or not, somebody will tell us it's wrong. Jesus Himself was called a "sorcerer" and a "blasphemer" and accused of using the power of satan to accomplish His miracles. Those doing the name-calling were religious leaders of the day.

Some of those leaders were harshly castigated by Jesus, telling them they "made their proselytes twice the child of hell as themselves" and regarding marriage in heaven, "you do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures".


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> No, I didn’t mean to give out the impression that he’s in anyway at fault. Or cutting him to ‘shreds’.
> What I meant was that: from HER perspective he’s a dud. There may well be a woman out there for him who he might be suitable for. I’m sure he’s a perfectly nice guy. Probably even too nice  I just don’t think he’s suitable for JTW. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad person or inadequate. He’s inadequate FOR HER (clearly).
> 
> JTW’s ‘problem’ is that she has one image in her mind (the whole ‘good Christian wife’ dream), that completely contradicts to who she actually is. The first step for her is to accept who she is and what kind of life she wants (that having sex before marriage or wanting kinky sex or a husband who wants wife in a ‘filthy’ way is perfectly ok). Many people have sex before marriage (to try stuff out) and are still perfectly ‘eligible’ Christians.
> I’m not sure she’s being advised from the right angle: of course she shouldn’t lie and I am sure once she accepts herself for who she is, she may find that it is all but completely unnecessary to lie just to conform to something she is not and never has been (but presumably such image has been somehow drilled into her).
> I maybe said that before, but all the ‘strict catholic girls’ were for some reason the absolutely kinkiest ones in school. I have no idea why. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe not. But it seems that when something is ‘strictly forbidden’, somehow there’s more desire to experience it...Ask that wretched snake why
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think my husband is a 'dud'. He's also not "too nice". He's a very strong person in his beliefs and he's definitely "dominant" in the relationship (except unfortunately in sex). I think a lot of people here are assuming that I am some kind of manipulator and he's just a weak person that I'm taking advantage of. This is not the case. He does a lot of leadership things in the church and he's a very strong leader. By the way I'm very proud of him for this.

I am the weak one. I grew up in a very repressive religious environment and I conformed to everything 100%. Always doing what i was told. Never thought for myself and never stood up for myself.

Then someone introduced me to the world of sex. I did everything i was told. Conformed to everything. it was like I lived 2 lives. It was so intense for me and I could not help myself. I hated myself for what i was doing but at the same time i loved having my own little secret. It was like i had 2 religions and going back and forth was making me crazy but so exciting at the same time.

I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> *I don't think my husband is a 'dud'.* He's also not "too nice". He's a very strong person in his beliefs and he's definitely "dominant" in the relationship (except unfortunately in sex). I think a lot of people here are assuming that I am some kind of manipulator and he's just a weak person that I'm taking advantage of. This is not the case. He does a lot of leadership things in the church and he's a very strong leader. By the way I'm very proud of him for this.


A 'dud' as far as sex life with you is concerned (from your subjective point of view). I presume you would be happy with your sex life with him otherwise?



JustTheWife said:


> I am the weak one. I grew up in a very repressive religious environment and I conformed to everything 100%. Always doing what i was told. Never thought for myself and never stood up for myself.


Yes, that's how it came across to me; you need to be comfortable with who you are and not let anyone else try to 'mould' you into something you are not. 



JustTheWife said:


> Then someone introduced me to the world of sex. I did everything i was told. Conformed to everything. it was like I lived 2 lives. It was so intense for me and I could not help myself. I hated myself for what i was doing but at the same time i loved having my own little secret. It was like i had 2 religions and going back and forth was making me crazy but so exciting at the same time.
> 
> I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


I don't think you are 'messed up'. You just discovered that you can be your own person and rebelled against your other self in protest. It does not at all mean that you are from the core promiscuous. Just that a healthy person is a balanced person; if you have desires and repress them because you feel that society or religious groups want you to, you go to the other extreme. What normally happens is that some girls live a little, then settle down with someone they love and someone they desire (ideally). And they are not ashamed for having had a life and so it does not even occur to them to lie. But because of all these imposed restrictions and fear of castigation, you basically didn't have a lot of choice. Which doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. In my mind, it was an unnecessary thing to do. I don't live in a society where men would discard a woman if she was not a virgin so this would always be a non-issue and entirely not on the list of considerations if a man was looking for a woman to marry. If there was indication that she was going to be promiscuous during the marriage, that would be an entirely different issue.
Maybe you should join some sort of feminist movement in your area and try to change this perception.

----

Say, hypothetically, if you knew beforehand that your husband would be ok with your past and would forgive you: would you still tell him about it? Would you give up this secret of yours and have a new start? Though your sex life would likely remain like this for the rest of your marriage. Would you be ok with it?
It sometimes reads to me that having that secret is almost essential to you; something to hold onto as a remains of your personality that you are not that willing to part with. And fear of your husband (or god/religion) is not the primary reason why you are not willing to give it up.

On the other hand, if your husband only loves you because he thought you were a virgin when he married you then in my mind, those are not strong enough reasons to have a longlasting bond with someone. If he loves you for you being YOU, then he will not dump you after you tell what happened *in your past*. And if he does, you would not really last with him in my opinion anyway. A fulfilling marriage is not just an abstract idea; two compatible people, bonded strongly, actually need to participate in it.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I think it’s great that that’s how you met. But what about all the good Christians who remain single after divorce and die alone? Why is God not talking to them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For many, women especially, there simply aren't arent enough good men in the church to go round. 
I think that some are told that they cant marry again, but they need to study for themselves and see what God actually says and not what they are told.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think my husband is a 'dud'. He's also not "too nice". He's a very strong person in his beliefs and he's definitely "dominant" in the relationship (except unfortunately in sex). I think a lot of people here are assuming that I am some kind of manipulator and he's just a weak person that I'm taking advantage of. This is not the case. He does a lot of leadership things in the church and he's a very strong leader. By the way I'm very proud of him for this.
> 
> I am the weak one. I grew up in a very repressive religious environment and I conformed to everything 100%. Always doing what i was told. Never thought for myself and never stood up for myself.
> 
> Then someone introduced me to the world of sex. I did everything i was told. Conformed to everything. it was like I lived 2 lives. It was so intense for me and I could not help myself. I hated myself for what i was doing but at the same time i loved having my own little secret. It was like i had 2 religions and going back and forth was making me crazy but so exciting at the same time.
> 
> I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


PLEASE just tell him You KNOW its the right thing.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> For many, women especially, there simply aren't arent enough good men in the church to go round.
> 
> I think that some are told that they cant marry again, but they need to study for themselves and see what God actually says and not what they are told.



I understand the practicalities but my question had more to do with why some do get ‘preferential’ treatment from God while others do not. And there’s no correlation with whether you have been a better person and got a ****ty deal versus the one who is a sinner, isn’t that devoted to God and gets a better deal. I always found that odd and to me that was always an obvious indication that nobody except yourself is really looking out for you.* And that there are actually much more compelling reasons to be good within society than getting brownie points from God or a promise of paradise.

*I know there’s a clause for that: He works in mysterious ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> He does a lot of leadership things in the church and he's a very strong leader. By the way I'm very proud of him for this.


I'm really thankful to hear this. Your approval and your validation are so very essential to him. For us, our wives play a huge role in how we grow, how we advance in our career, ministry, fatherhood. 

I'm sure his leadership in the church is approved and validated by his parents and those in his "inner circle", too. His early attempts at ministry were likely met by encouragement, from the time God first began to present service opportunities to him.

He also likely had mentors and examples of that leadership he could emulate and learn from for his entire life.

No similar experience has been available for him when it comes to sex. He is receiving now his first growth opportunity.



JustTheWife said:


> I did everything i was told. Conformed to everything.


Ok. You may continue. Just look to God to provide the "telling", and be conformed to your husband.



JustTheWife said:


> I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


God has given you a perfect opportunity to become "not messed up". He gave you one of his mighty men to love and cleave to, and He will give yiu His wisdom and His blessing as you walk together with your husband.

I'm also quite sure tha your husband doesn't see you as undeserving. And I know that God doesn't view you as undeserving. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, will be to find your self-opinion in your husband's view of you, and in God's view of you.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I understand the practicalities but my question had more to do with why some do get ‘preferential’ treatment from God while others do not. And there’s no correlation with whether you have been a better person and got a ****ty deal versus the one who is a sinner, isn’t that devoted to God and gets a better deal. I always found that odd and to me that was always an obvious indication that nobody except yourself is really looking out for you.* And that there are actually much more compelling reasons to be good within society than getting brownie points from God or a promise of paradise.
> 
> *I know there’s a clause for that: He works in mysterious ways.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He treats each of us as unique and much loved individuals. He has no favourites.
Everything he does in our lives is for our ultimate and long term good.


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


Actually you are normal and human. Very much so.

You need to come clean, otherwise it will end badly, but so what? All of us have conflicted desires and all of us struggle to live up to our values sometimes. The whole point of Christianity, on one level, is that struggle.


----------



## TJW

Wazza said:


> All of us have conflicted desires and all of us struggle to live up to our values sometimes.


And, for many of us, it takes time to recognize that all the devil's dishes are empty.....they promise such reward, and deliver nothing but a sorrowful outcome.


----------



## stillthinking

He had/has every right to set his own standards as to what he wants in a spouse. What he personally will and will not accept. His preferences do not have to conform to anyone else’s. It’s his life. 

Tall, short, skinny, curvy, soft, muscular, poor, rich, funny, arrogant, religious, agnostic, football, soccer, paleo, vegan. All of us are allowed to have a type. Who and what we are into. 

He appears to have had a preference for a chaste woman. Other guys may not give a rip. But he did/does. 

You knew this. And you lied. He was a catch. A good one. Not at all like the bad boys you had your fun with. So what did you do? You guided him, without his knowledge, into betraying his own moral positions.

Your relationship has been predicated on a falsehood. 

You have a church background. You know the parable of the foolish builders. Foundations of rock vs sand. 

If you have any respect for him, tell him the truth. Let him now make the decision he was denied before. 

Maybe he will leave. In which case you can take this experience, learn from it, and find someone you are more compatible with. As can he.

Or maybe he will forgive you and stay. In which case you can build a marriage based on truth and honesty. A story of redemption that could inspire others.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

TJW said:


> And, for many of us, it takes time to recognize that all the devil's dishes are empty.....they promise such reward, and deliver nothing but a sorrowful outcome.


Yeah, and my own "sorrowful outcome" came in 2011 when my daughter was born at 22 weeks and died after 20 minutes. When her dad was so churchy and religious that he could not admit to anyone in his life, even himself, that he went outside of his marriage (despite being legally separated at the time) and had a child. So his solution was to let me birth and die with her, alone. 

Yeah, a real church man. I will NEVER date another man who believes in group religion. Before anyone argues with me on that, then I ask them to go through that day for me.


----------



## 71bgol

I would tell him. Living a lie is not a way to live. He could eventually find out on his own, that could be disastrous. If you come to him with sincerity and remorse for lying, if he’s a good Christian he will forgive you. It might be hard for a little While, but he will get over it. 

My wife came out after we were married that she had been with more people than she first told me. It bothered me for a couple days that she lied more than anything. Honestly, I just assume most women lie about that when you first start dating. Your situation is a little different but I think he will eventually get over it.


----------



## Diana7

Hope Shimmers said:


> Yeah, and my own "sorrowful outcome" came in 2011 when my daughter was born at 22 weeks and died after 20 minutes. When her dad was so churchy and religious that he could not admit to anyone in his life, even himself, that he went outside of his marriage (despite being legally separated at the time) and had a child. So his solution was to let me birth and die with her, alone.
> 
> Yeah, a real church man. I will NEVER date another man who believes in group religion. Before anyone argues with me on that, then I ask them to go through that day for me.


That's very sad but there are nearly always sad and bad consequences to having an affair with a married person. if he was a Christian then he shouldn't have been having sex with you anyway. 
Most Christians guys aren't like that, I am married to a Christian and he is the best. 
Not sure what you mean by 'group religion', Christianity is a personal relationship not a religion.


----------



## Diana7

71bgol said:


> I would tell him. Living a lie is not a way to live. He could eventually find out on his own, that could be disastrous. If you come to him with sincerity and remorse for lying, if he’s a good Christian he will forgive you. It might be hard for a little While, but he will get over it.
> 
> My wife came out after we were married that she had been with more people than she first told me. It bothered me for a couple days that she lied more than anything. Honestly, I just assume most women lie about that when you first start dating. Your situation is a little different but I think he will eventually get over it.


I so agree that she must tell him, but in your case, maybe your wife didn't claim she was a virgin? Maybe you weren't that bothered how many partners she had had? 
I hope that most don't lie, its bad way to begin any relationship, on lies, and to get married not owning up is wrong.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think my husband is a 'dud'. He's also not "too nice". He's a very strong person in his beliefs and he's definitely "dominant" in the relationship (except unfortunately in sex). I think a lot of people here are assuming that I am some kind of manipulator and he's just a weak person that I'm taking advantage of. This is not the case. He does a lot of leadership things in the church and he's a very strong leader. By the way I'm very proud of him for this.
> 
> I am the weak one. I grew up in a very repressive religious environment and I conformed to everything 100%. Always doing what i was told. Never thought for myself and never stood up for myself.
> 
> Then someone introduced me to the world of sex. I did everything i was told. Conformed to everything. it was like I lived 2 lives. It was so intense for me and I could not help myself. I hated myself for what i was doing but at the same time i loved having my own little secret. It was like i had 2 religions and going back and forth was making me crazy but so exciting at the same time.
> 
> I'm very messed up. I don't deserve my husband.


I don't think you are messed up, as in you are a bad person because you like sex. Actually that is a good thing, but it's a shame that your choices have basically prevented you from having this with your husband. You need to do the right thing.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Diana7 said:


> That's very sad but there are nearly always sad and bad consequences to having an affair with a married person. if he was a Christian then he shouldn't have been having sex with you anyway.
> Most Christians guys aren't like that, I am married to a Christian and he is the best.
> Not sure what you mean by 'group religion', Christianity is a personal relationship not a religion.


I meant organized religion. If I choose to have a relationship with God, I don't need an organized group.

My ex was on a dating site, had been living on his own for the better part of a year after being legally separated, and was proceeding towards divorce. His ex-wife had a significant other. To this day there are millions of people who aren't even legally separated (but are just 'separated') and not divorced, on dating sites and who date all the time. Does that make them not 'Christians'? Does it make me suddenly not a 'Christian' (I was raised in the Lutheran church) because I dated a man who was legally separated and didn't have his divorce paperwork done? (He does now, but I'm done with him for obvious reasons).

Paperwork or no, he was going to do what he was going to do. Even if they had already signed on the dotted line, he would have gone back to her just the same. Has nothing to do with being Christian or having signed paperwork.

So thanks, but please don't tell me what a Christian man is like.


----------



## JustTheWife

sokillme said:


> I don't think you are messed up, as in you are a bad person because you like sex. Actually that is a good thing, but it's a shame that your choices have basically prevented you from having this with your husband. You need to do the right thing.


I don't understand why my choices have prevented me from having good sex with my husband. I have tried so much with him and nothing works. I would do anything for him but he doesn't want me. I'm not like one of those women who does everything with other guys and refuses with her husband. I'm not like that. There's nothing that I did with others that I would not do with him.


----------



## Diana7

Hope Shimmers said:


> I meant organized religion. If I choose to have a relationship with God, I don't need an organized group.
> 
> My ex was on a dating site, had been living on his own for the better part of a year after being legally separated, and was proceeding towards divorce. His ex-wife had a significant other. To this day there are millions of people who aren't even legally separated (but are just 'separated') and not divorced, on dating sites and who date all the time. Does that make them not 'Christians'? Does it make me suddenly not a 'Christian' (I was raised in the Lutheran church) because I dated a man who was legally separated and didn't have his divorce paperwork done? (He does now, but I'm done with him for obvious reasons).
> 
> Paperwork or no, he was going to do what he was going to do. Even if they had already signed on the dotted line, he would have gone back to her just the same. Has nothing to do with being Christian or having signed paperwork.
> 
> So thanks, but please don't tell me what a Christian man is like.


Ifyou are married to someone and have sex with someone else its adultery. Its doesn't matter if they are separated, they are still married. 

Christians are told to meet together, and that's usually in a church building, or school, or community centre or a home. If you call that organised religion fine, but its what we are meant to do.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I don't understand why my choices have prevented me from having good sex with my husband. I have tried so much with him and nothing works. I would do anything for him but he doesn't want me. I'm not like one of those women who does everything with other guys and refuses with her husband. I'm not like that. There's nothing that I did with others that I would not do with him.



Are you saying that you never have sex with him? Or that its not the sex that you want?

BTW nothing will ever change or improve until you do the right thing. You know that its what you need to do. IF you cant tell him then write it down in a letter. This will just get worse if you don't. 
Be brave and honest and do it.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> I don't understand why my choices have prevented me from having good sex with my husband. I have tried so much with him and nothing works. I would do anything for him but he doesn't want me. I'm not like one of those women who does everything with other guys and refuses with her husband. I'm not like that. There's nothing that I did with others that I would not do with him.


To have good sex you have to be honest. If you never had sex with someone else like you have lead him to believe you would not feel such shame and you probably would have been able to communicate your needs better. You both would have been learning your needs as you learned about sex together. Now you can't say anything as you already have needs of an the experienced person and to say what you need would be giving away your secret.


----------



## happiness27

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


I don't know what is right for you and your husband. 

But I was VERY open with my husband about everything when we got together and were dating. He was not. Many, MANY years later, he came clean and continues to open up more and more - and the more he opens up to me, the stronger our intimacy is. But that is US. That doesn't work for everyone. 

I am a very strong believer in full disclosure with a trusted spouse. It's the foundation of the relationship. Full disclosure means that both people are operating off of the same pages of information all the time. There's no guessing.

Now, when my husband finally told me the truth - that he had had a sexual encounter with another woman after he divorced his wife - my reaction was to be a little bit pissed that he lied to me - since I had been fully disclosing to him. That put a nick in our relationship for awhile. But, please, hear me...what it also did was allow me to *see* him more, know more about him and his sexuality - that he is a very sexual person and that he has a lot of different thoughts and even some pathos regarding his attraction to women. (He felt very ashamed about his feelings of attraction for other women while at the same time being married to me.)

As we have grown together and butted heads together over the years, we actually have grown closer the more open and honest we are. He has opened up to me more and more and me to him. Some of the openness is pretty raw stuff. But, I have to tell you, girl, this is a man I trust with my innermost feelings, thoughts and desires. I feel that some human beings really need this feeling of freedom to help them know the difference between wanting something forbidden and going "Nah, not so much." Other people are more like "No, I already intellectually know what I want and I don't need to explore." But I'm not one of those. 

The reason I feel full disclosure is important is that I want both of us to feel happiness and personal freedom at least within our little corner of the world. We have this little space called a relationship where we can be ourselves completely. It's amazing how much easier it is to make decisions about your life when you aren't stressed about keeping stuff to yourself out of fear and shame.


----------



## JustTheWife

happiness27 said:


> I don't know what is right for you and your husband.
> 
> But I was VERY open with my husband about everything when we got together and were dating. He was not. Many, MANY years later, he came clean and continues to open up more and more - and the more he opens up to me, the stronger our intimacy is. But that is US. That doesn't work for everyone.
> 
> I am a very strong believer in full disclosure with a trusted spouse. It's the foundation of the relationship. Full disclosure means that both people are operating off of the same pages of information all the time. There's no guessing.
> 
> Now, when my husband finally told me the truth - that he had had a sexual encounter with another woman after he divorced his wife - my reaction was to be a little bit pissed that he lied to me - since I had been fully disclosing to him. That put a nick in our relationship for awhile. But, please, hear me...what it also did was allow me to *see* him more, know more about him and his sexuality - that he is a very sexual person and that he has a lot of different thoughts and even some pathos regarding his attraction to women. (He felt very ashamed about his feelings of attraction for other women while at the same time being married to me.)
> 
> As we have grown together and butted heads together over the years, we actually have grown closer the more open and honest we are. He has opened up to me more and more and me to him. Some of the openness is pretty raw stuff. But, I have to tell you, girl, this is a man I trust with my innermost feelings, thoughts and desires. I feel that some human beings really need this feeling of freedom to help them know the difference between wanting something forbidden and going "Nah, not so much." Other people are more like "No, I already intellectually know what I want and I don't need to explore." But I'm not one of those.
> 
> The reason I feel full disclosure is important is that I want both of us to feel happiness and personal freedom at least within our little corner of the world. We have this little space called a relationship where we can be ourselves completely. It's amazing how much easier it is to make decisions about your life when you aren't stressed about keeping stuff to yourself out of fear and shame.


Thank you. Thank you.

I want what you have in a relationship. You're so right that it needs to be right for US. I can't imagine that with my husband. Sexuality is an important part of a person but so often hidden from your partner. My case might be more extreme but I think many (most?) couples are not completely open with their partners. I think its very common to downplay things and avoid discussing the history, real views on sex and feelings.

So many people hide the truth. I get that I'm a liar and doing the wrong thing so I'm not making excuses but I think most people have limits to the truth that they will tell. I'm probably not alone in having a past that could be very upsetting to my husband. Is sparing detail to protect feelings wrong? I'd be less of a liar if I told my husband that I "slept with" some other guys but would not say how many and I said it was nothing or just some "mistakes" that I made and none of it was any good. 

I'm afraid to tell him anything but I also feel like if I can't be truly open as you describe with your husband then why bother? I can't bring myself to downplay it. I feel like it's floodgates and if it opens, i need to be fully open about it. I'm a sensitive person and maybe I think too much. i get moved deeply by things and sex became like my religion to me. I mean I am so deeply into my religion and I was always in awe of the ultimate power of God and to serve Him. Then in sex I found what seemed like a much stronger power when I was submissive with dominant guys. It moved me in a much stronger way than i've ever been moved emotionally. I'm so ashamed of this and writing this and admitting this is so difficult for me. 

Subservience to a dominant and all powerful man in sex feels like subservience to God in my religion but like 100x more powerful. I mean obviously it's very different but emotionally i felt some of the same types of feelings. Maybe like I'm serving God or serving the devil. I'm so confused. 

So what am I supposed to do? Tell my husband that I "slept with" some guys? That doesn't really even scratch the surface of the truth. Do I tell him that I'm confused about how the ultimate power feels? That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil? There is no answer to my problems. Why am I cursed with this?


----------



## Nucking Futs

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> I want what you have in a relationship. You're so right that it needs to be right for US. I can't imagine that with my husband. Sexuality is an important part of a person but so often hidden from your partner. My case might be more extreme but I think many (most?) couples are not completely open with their partners. I think its very common to downplay things and avoid discussing the history, real views on sex and feelings.
> 
> So many people hide the truth. I get that I'm a liar and doing the wrong thing so I'm not making excuses but I think most people have limits to the truth that they will tell. I'm probably not alone in having a past that could be very upsetting to my husband. Is sparing detail to protect feelings wrong? I'd be less of a liar if I told my husband that I "slept with" some other guys but would not say how many and I said it was nothing or just some "mistakes" that I made and none of it was any good.
> 
> I'm afraid to tell him anything but I also feel like if I can't be truly open as you describe with your husband then why bother? I can't bring myself to downplay it. I feel like it's floodgates and if it opens, i need to be fully open about it. I'm a sensitive person and maybe I think too much. i get moved deeply by things and sex became like my religion to me. I mean I am so deeply into my religion and I was always in awe of the ultimate power of God and to serve Him. Then in sex I found what seemed like a much stronger power when I was submissive with dominant guys. It moved me in a much stronger way than i've ever been moved emotionally. I'm so ashamed of this and writing this and admitting this is so difficult for me.
> 
> Subservience to a dominant and all powerful man in sex feels like subservience to God in my religion but like 100x more powerful. I mean obviously it's very different but emotionally i felt some of the same types of feelings. Maybe like I'm serving God or serving the devil. I'm so confused.
> 
> *So what am I supposed to do? Tell my husband that I "slept with" some guys? * That doesn't really even scratch the surface of the truth. Do I tell him that I'm confused about how the ultimate power feels? That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil? There is no answer to my problems. Why am I cursed with this?


This question has been answered around a thousand times already on this thread. The answer isn't going to change no matter how many times you ask it.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil?


I don't think it's the devil. I think you may want to kneel before your own lust. I don't think you're confused about which one you prefer to indulge yourself in. But, that is the nature of sin. We like it. We like to participate in it because we get immediate gratification. But, make no mistake about it, like the bible says "...the end of those things is death....".

But the truth is, that God has given you your marriage to provide for you sexually. You aren't currently obtaining the results you want, because you cannot bring yourself to communicate your desires to your husband. Your gratification will not be immediate, but I think through the process of time, you can be satisfied.



JustTheWife said:


> There is no answer to my problems.


Yes, there is. And, like @NuckingFuts has already said, the answer has been given to you multiple times. It is the same answer you will get from a pastor, christian counselor, priest, you name the wisdom source, the answer will be the same.



JustTheWife said:


> Why am I cursed with this?


Every one of us, every last one, is "cursed" with "this"... we all have strong motivation to get our needs met. However, we have a choice. We can choose the immediate gratification of sin, or we can choose to trust God when He says "...my grace is sufficient...". 

It's up to you whether you want to be "cursed", or "blessed" in your gratification. A wife or husband who is trusting God will be thankful for the sexual experiences they have been provided, and it is quite alright that a couple can work, in God, to improve and change their sex life for the better.

Let me ask you a serious question. If you do not want to "bow before God", then why are you remaining married? Why haven't you simply gone back to your old lifestyle before you were married? 

I think I know the answer....is that there is a place in your heart which seeks God, and knows that God has the right way for you to meet your needs. You truly want to serve God in your life and your marriage.


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. *He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.*


You'd have to prove that with evidence for me to believe. Just as you haven't told him, why would he not lie to you? 



JustTheWife said:


> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.


Yikes! That's a pile of lying. It must have been difficult at first, particularly since you were friends through church. Brings up a question. If you were both liars and attending church and church affairs together, you may well be compatible. If one is truthful, doesn't matter whom, can you simply imagine the incompatibility? 



JustTheWife said:


> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.


Using the word 'sometimes' is lying to us because you go on to say you got tested, so it's alright. You pretty much came to the conclusion that it's alright. Now, if it isn't alright with this man, your "friend and husband", does that make him terrible or just different and highly incompatible? I think the latter. Nothing wrong so far with the sex you've had. It's the deception that is at issue. That sort of makes you two incompatible, unless he is as deceptive and experienced as you. When one partner has this type of advantage in a relationship, the other can be easily deceived into believing they are loved when they really are just convenient. 



JustTheWife said:


> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


It really isn't a lie. It's many lies and it's your whole relationship that is a lie. Unless, he is lying to you about his past. I guess you could look into that before you do anything further. That way you might more easily know what you should do. Good luck. You placed yourself in this position. It isn't easy to take responsibility for a lifetime of lies.


----------



## Diana7

You know exactly what you need to do. If you are listening to God at all, then do as He says. NOTHING will ever get better until you are honest. Surely you can see that? You KNOW its what you need to do.
All you need to tell him is that you weren't a virgin as you said, but had had sex with several men and that you are very sorry you did this and very sorry you lied. IF he wants to know more details, then you will need to tell him, but if he doesn't then say no more. 

God wont let this go, and you will get more and more weighed down with it. Just do it, please. It must be badly affecting your relationship with your husband and your relationship with God. If you carry on refusing to tell, He may well make sure that your husband finds our another way, which will be far more of a shock to him that if you tell him. He deserves to know and you need to get this off your chest.


----------



## TJW

2ntnuf said:


> Just as you haven't told him, why would he not lie to you?


This is really quite a good question. It could explain why he acts as if he "doesn't want you" and is timid toward sex. Every bit as much as the other reasons given here.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I don't understand why my choices have prevented me from having good sex with my husband. I have tried so much with him and nothing works. I would do anything for him but he doesn't want me. I'm not like one of those women who does everything with other guys and refuses with her husband. I'm not like that. There's nothing that I did with others that I would not do with him.




Can you be more specific? Does he not want to have sex with you at all or is it just the way he has sex with you? What happens if you do something more adventures on him or with him?
Unfortunately that kind of thing happens quite often when people wait till marriage to have sex and don’t test drive each other in bed beforehand. And before Diana says it’s not true: I just want to point out that both her and her husband were married before and knew what to look out for. A lot of young couples who wait will have not a clue whether they are going to be compatible or not. Nor will they not know how to determine whether they are compatible (‘cos they only know about sex in theory!)

Somebody should make a little change in the scripture or interpret it differently (as often happens with outdated bible principles; people just change the meaning to suit the life style). Could it not be interpreted: don’t have sex if you don’t INTEND to marry? Seems much more reasonable and this would have solved two problems at once: JTW would not have felt the need to lie and would find out early enough that she doesn’t enjoy sex with husband and not have gotten married in the first place. Easy.

It could also be that he’s not into women. Perfectly possible. Does he ask you to cut your hair short? (Don’t laugh; we know a couple who were really picture perfect Christian couple; church every Sunday, praying all the time for etc but wife complained he never wanted her sexually; she would buy lingerie and try to seduce him for years and he would just stare at her and go to bed. He then asked her to cut her hair short and she really began looking like a boy. We began to worry. Their sex life improved slightly but he left her for a very young dude in the end after years of cheating with men. I’m not saying your husband is anything like that. Just throwing out possibilities. People said it’s because you are ‘too experienced’ or advanced for him. WTF. HE doesn’t know that).

Ask him if he has any sexual fantasies? And if you allowed him to watch porn, what would it be? Though he’ll probably never admit...Maybe leave the Pornhub site open and leave the room for 7 and a half minutes with a box of tissues. Then check history. I dunno.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Are you saying that you never have sex with him? Or that its not the sex that you want?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW nothing will ever change or improve until you do the right thing. You know that its what you need to do. IF you cant tell him then write it down in a letter. This will just get worse if you don't.
> 
> Be brave and honest and do it.



Why do you think the sex between them will get better after she tells him? It will likely get much worse or probably even stop altogether.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

sokillme said:


> To have good sex you have to be honest. If you never had sex with someone else like you have lead him to believe you would not feel such shame and you probably would have been able to communicate your needs better. You both would have been learning your needs as you learned about sex together. Now you can't say anything as you already have needs of an the experienced person and to say what you need would be giving away your secret.




That’s complete fantasy or wishful thinking. The two are not linked. Her lying is one thing. Bad sex: another thing altogether. The two are absolutely not related.
They would have bad sex whether she told him she was a virgin or not. In fact, they would still have bad sex even if she WAS a virgin.
She would probably realise it much later though. Or wouldn’t know any better and then at some point post on TAM in Elegirl’s thread.
Why do people blame his lack of desire for her, on her dishonesty? It makes absolutely no sense at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

inmyprime said:


> That’s complete fantasy or wishful thinking. The two are not linked. Her lying is one thing. Bad sex: another thing altogether. The two are absolutely not related.
> They would have bad sex whether she told him she was a virgin or not. In fact, they would still have bad sex even if she WAS a virgin.
> She would probably realise it much later though. Or wouldn’t know any better and then at some point post on TAM in Elegirl’s thread.
> Why do people blame his lack of desire for her, on her dishonesty? It makes absolutely no sense at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She doesn't talk to him because she is afraid. Why is she afraid? Because she thinks he will figure out her secret. If she didn't have a secret it would be much easier to talk about it.

Where you get there was a lack of desire? She never said that, she said he was too vanilla. Not that he didn't want to have sex with her. She wants to have adventurous sex. She wants to be dominated.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> So what am I supposed to do? Tell my husband that I "slept with" some guys? That doesn't really even scratch the surface of the truth. Do I tell him that I'm confused about how the ultimate power feels? That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil? There is no answer to my problems. Why am I cursed with this?


Wanting to be submissive to your husband and have him dominate you sexual is not submitting to the devil. It just means you want to be submissive. Their is no sin in it, actually the bible says as much if you want to take it to the extreme. Your supposed to give your body to your husband and vice versa. You have obviously been shamed about your sexuality by some bad church teaching. 

The reason why the bible wants you to not have sex before marriage is to avoid these kinds of problems. But I suspect that even if he was your one and only you would want to be submissive. Again that part there is nothing wrong with. Look if you were both virgins and now your sex life was to vanilla for you I would tell you to talk to him. There is nothing wrong with that, God wants your sex life to be great. Again nothing wrong with that. 

You need to separate the two. Tell your husband that you were not a virgin and give him the basics of what you did and see what happens. Do that because it's the right thing to do. 

Wanting to be submissive doesn't make you a devil spawn.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> Why do you think the sex between them will get better after she tells him? It will likely get much worse or probably even stop altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:

1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)

2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.

3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.

Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustTheWife said:


> I want what you have in a relationship.


Good to read. 



JustTheWife said:


> I'm afraid to tell him anything but I also feel like if I can't be truly open as you describe with your husband then why bother?


Some folks can't take the full truth. You know him. Start slow and take small steps. It's probably how you found out what you want. Give him the same opportunity.



JustTheWife said:


> Subservience to a dominant and all powerful man in sex feels like subservience to God in my religion but like 100x more powerful. I mean obviously it's very different but emotionally i felt some of the same types of feelings. Maybe like I'm serving God or serving the devil. I'm so confused.


It isn't serving the devil. It's what God wants for a marriage. He wants men and women to be happy together. When all is done in lovingkindness and no on is hurt, there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe you and your husband should read the Song of Songs? It's all about David having great sex with his wife. It isn't written plainly, but you can understand what is being said. 



JustTheWife said:


> So what am I supposed to do? Tell my husband that I "slept with" some guys? That doesn't really even scratch the surface of the truth.


I don't think you start that way. I think you start with showing him how loving it is to give your partner what they want. It is biblical, to a point. You may find you have a tiger on your hands. 



JustTheWife said:


> Do I tell him that I'm confused about how the ultimate power feels? That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil? There is no answer to my problems. Why am I cursed with this?


After he starts to "get it", and you will know when that is, this subject can be slowly broached.

There is nothing wrong with what you want. It isn't something from the devil. The bible tells men to be leaders, even in bed. So, if he is a good Christian husband, he will learn to lead. Just don't say that like that to him. It will push him away. Show him. 


Get it through your head, it is not evil. It is a wonderful thing between a husband and wife. Accept who you are. There is nothing wrong with you. Then, you can help your marriage.


----------



## SGr

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.


I'll ask this again. Is it possible that you're underestimating your husband?

All of the scenarios you laid out are "possible" but he may very well surprise you and be very understanding and do none of those. It might be the very thing that turns your relationship around. 

Telling the truth will at the very least free you of the burden you've been carrying for all this time and allow you to move forward in your relationship with your husband one way or another.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk


----------



## Nucking Futs

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.


So let me get this straight. You are married to a man you had to lie to to snag, and if he knew the real you there is no chance he would love you. So your plan is to continue to lie for the next 50 to 70 years until one or both of you die and either never be sexually fulfilled or cheat. Is that what you're saying?


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Can you be more specific? Does he not want to have sex with you at all or is it just the way he has sex with you? What happens if you do something more adventures on him or with him?
> Unfortunately that kind of thing happens quite often when people wait till marriage to have sex and don’t test drive each other in bed beforehand. And before Diana says it’s not true: I just want to point out that both her and her husband were married before and knew what to look out for. A lot of young couples who wait will have not a clue whether they are going to be compatible or not. Nor will they not know how to determine whether they are compatible (‘cos they only know about sex in theory!)
> 
> Somebody should make a little change in the scripture or interpret it differently (as often happens with outdated bible principles; people just change the meaning to suit the life style). Could it not be interpreted: don’t have sex if you don’t INTEND to marry? Seems much more reasonable and this would have solved two problems at once: JTW would not have felt the need to lie and would find out early enough that she doesn’t enjoy sex with husband and not have gotten married in the first place. Easy.
> 
> It could also be that he’s not into women. Perfectly possible. Does he ask you to cut your hair short? (Don’t laugh; we know a couple who were really picture perfect Christian couple; church every Sunday, praying all the time for etc but wife complained he never wanted her sexually; she would buy lingerie and try to seduce him for years and he would just stare at her and go to bed. He then asked her to cut her hair short and she really began looking like a boy. We began to worry. Their sex life improved slightly but he left her for a very young dude in the end after years of cheating with men. I’m not saying your husband is anything like that. Just throwing out possibilities. People said it’s because you are ‘too experienced’ or advanced for him. WTF. HE doesn’t know that).
> 
> Ask him if he has any sexual fantasies? And if you allowed him to watch porn, what would it be? Though he’ll probably never admit...Maybe leave the Pornhub site open and leave the room for 7 and a half minutes with a box of tissues. Then check history. I dunno.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No the bible doesn't say you can have sex if you intend to marry. It says that you can only have sex once you are married. Sex seals the marriage covenant. We aren't supposed to 'try out' another person like they are a car or something, and then discard them like an old piece of rubbish if they don't meet our 'sexual standards'. We are supposed to put them first, work together and compromise. To be committed and faithful and accept the other person no matter what. 

Its not just us, I know many couples with good long happy marriages who waited, you don't have to have sex before marriage to achieve that. Besides that sex with each other is not the same as sex with another person. Its something you learn again from scratch with each other. 

Advising her to tempt her husband with porn is a terrible idea. :frown2:


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.


You clearly have a very low opinion of your husband if you think that those are the only options. Why did you marry a man if you think that little of him?


----------



## Haiku

@JustTheWife - If it were me and there was not a significant risk my partner could find out from someone but me, then I’d keep it to myself. If I needed help with guilt i’d seek out a therapist to help sort it out to find peace. 

Would it be better it was all cleared up long ago, yes; but you’ve been faithful...you aren’t the same young woman you were (and I wouldn’t judge her anyway). My advice is to focus on who you are today and continue being the best person, wife, (and mother ?) you can be. Try not living in the past.


----------



## Diana7

Haiku said:


> @JustTheWife - If it were me and there was not a significant risk my partner could find out from someone but me, then I’d keep it to myself. If I needed help with guilt i’d seek out a therapist to help sort it out to find peace.
> 
> Would it be better it was all cleared up long ago, yes; but you’ve been faithful...you aren’t the same young woman you were (and I wouldn’t judge her anyway). My advice is to focus on who you are today and continue being the best person, wife, (and mother ?) you can be. Try not living in the past.


It may well be that he will find out, people do. Apart from that, lying to your husband or wife about anything, let alone something so vital, is disastrous for that marriage. 
I mean how far do you take it? If you were in jail 10 years ago for drug dealing for example, do you not tell your spouse because you are no longer that person? How about if you were made bankrupt in your past and can no longer borrow money? Keep that from them? Maybe you had an STD.... another secret? Maybe you had a child in your past who you dont see, or an abortion? Do you keep that a secret as well? May as well lie about everything. 

Lies always bring trouble. Guilt feelings are there for a reason, because you are doing something that you need to feel guilty about, telling your spouse serious lies. 

She has a Christian faith, so she knows that its very wrong to lie, and that this will all end in disaster unless she does the right thing. Its her choice.


----------



## Haiku

Diana7 said:


> It may well be that he will find out, people do. Apart from that, lying to your husband or wife about anything, let alone something so vital, is disastrous for that marriage.
> I mean how far do you take it? If you were in jail 10 years ago for drug dealing for example, do you not tell your spouse because you are no longer that person? How about if you were made bankrupt in your past and can no longer borrow money? Keep that from them? Maybe you had an STD.... another secret? Maybe you had a child in your past who you dont see, or an abortion? Do you keep that a secret as well? May as well lie about everything.
> 
> Lies always bring trouble. Guilt feelings are there for a reason, because you are doing something that you need to feel guilty about, telling your spouse serious lies.
> 
> She has a Christian faith, so she knows that its very wrong to lie, and that this will all end in disaster unless she does the right thing. Its her choice.


My comments were directed to this specific case not the hypotheticals you raised.


----------



## Wolfman1968

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.



All three of these essentially look like the end of your marriage.

The other choice is say nothing, and be consumed with guilt, be sexually unhappy, AND cheat BOTH of you of a more sexually fulfilling marriage (because I suspect that if this secret wasn't hanging over your head, you could be more direct and demanding of your needs without the fear of him sensing a hidden history).

Looks like you lose either way. I think the best approach is to tell him you want a divorce...no, that you NEED a divorce...and it's because you have not been honest with him. Then tell him the truth. That will force him to make some hard decisions, but he'll actually be on the defensive, seeing something he values (you, his marriage) leaving him. I think that dynamic puts the power in YOUR hands, and forces him to decide if he values the relationship enough to accept your history. Because he really doesn't have a weapon any more...the greatest threat he has is to divorce you in a fit of indignation, but you will have already defused that weapon. If he tries to get angry and shame you, you can just reply, "that's right, and that's why I am divorcing you. Because I wasn't honest about my past." You are essentially agreeing with him and offering an out...if he want it. It's a gamble that he WON'T want it.

On the other hand, let's say he accepts your offer of a divorce. Then, at least you have extricated yourself from what is essentially a no-win situation.

I think this strengthens your position either way.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.




That’s a bit pessimistic...
Yes, I can tell that you would not only not mind 2 and 3, you’d probably like it. But I doubt it. 
If he was never that interested in sex with you in the first place, I don’t think he will use it to ‘punish’ you.
There are more possibilities what could happen after you tell him: the most likely possibility to me seems that nothing will change. You might argue for a bit and it will all go back to ‘normal’. You really are making it into a big a deal.

Why don’t you have a hypothetical conversation with him: ask him if he would ever have married anyone who was not a virgin. If he fell in love with someone strongly but it turned out that she wasn’t a virgin.
Do you talk to him much?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> No the bible doesn't say you can have sex if you intend to marry. It says that you can only have sex once you are married. Sex seals the marriage covenant.



Are BJs and anal ok before marriage though?
That’s what a number of Catholic (supposedly) virgin girls told me back in school. Now I wonder if it was a lie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

Haiku said:


> My comments were directed to this specific case not the hypotheticals you raised.


I think its relevant, because you are talking about lies and deception within Marriage.


----------



## Haiku

Diana7 said:


> I think its relevant...


I understand you do, however they aren’t applicable to this situation.


----------



## BruceBanner

Diana7 said:


> You clearly have a very low opinion of your husband if you think that those are the only options. Why did you marry a man if you think that little of him?


"Because he was a good provider." That is what I imagine she will say.


----------



## TJW

inmyprime said:


> Are BJs and anal ok before marriage though?
> That’s what a number of Catholic (supposedly) virgin girls told me back in school. Now I wonder if it was a lie.


BJs and anal are sex. So is oral, heavy petting, frottage, etc. 

In order to know what is sex, the question "does this activity cause me to be bonded to the person I'm doing it with???"

I don't think those girls lied to you. I think they believed what they told you was true. Many other people also believe this. Many people who claim to be "christian" accept what they are taught by locker-room peers. BFFs, acquaintances, maybe even family. But the sincere, dedicated christian does not accept what he/she learns from anecdotal sources as being the true path. In fact, a large part of a christian's past beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, must be put away, and replaced with beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors which are stated by the bible to be the correct ones.

The word "christian" means "like Christ". The person who desires to be a christian makes a comparison of his/her beliefs, to those which are stated in the bible. He/she rejects all beliefs which are not biblical, and espouses only beliefs which are biblical.

Being "Catholic" or "Baptist" or "Episcopalian" does not make a person a christian, but many christians associate themselves with these, and other, churches for the benefits to their continued discipleship which the churches provide. The association with local fellowships provides trustworthy discussion and learning from other christians, as well as from clergy who are professionally trained in biblical truth.


----------



## Diana7

BruceBanner said:


> "Because he was a good provider." That is what I imagine she will say.


To me he sounds like a good man of integrity and high moral values. I don't know why she seems to have a low opinion of him.


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> I think you're probably right. I see the following possibilities with sex. obviously there is much more to think about than just the effect on sex. but for sex it could:
> 
> 1. Cause him to be disgusted with me and not want to touch me again because other guys have been there and it's "dirty". (most likely option knowing him - thats how he thinks)
> 
> 2. Cause him to just treat me like a wh*** because everyone else did. His gentleness and respect would go away and he'd figure "why not" just use me until he leaves me.
> 
> 3. Cause him to want to punish me and humiliate me for what I did. This is like a variation on #2 but with a different motivation.
> 
> Obviously I thought about this a lot. To be honest I would not mind #2 or #3 just for the sake of sex but I think this would go along with the end of my marriage or at least the end of my marriage and all the good things about it outside of sex.


Can you do the current approach for another 50 years? How do you feel in your gut?


----------



## Wazza

TJW said:


> BJs and anal are sex. So is oral, heavy petting, frottage, etc.
> 
> In order to know what is sex, the question "does this activity cause me to be bonded to the person I'm doing it with???"
> 
> I don't think those girls lied to you. I think they believed what they told you was true. Many other people also believe this. Many people who claim to be "christian" accept what they are taught by locker-room peers. BFFs, acquaintances, maybe even family. But the sincere, dedicated christian does not accept what he/she learns from anecdotal sources as being the true path. In fact, a large part of a christian's past beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, must be put away, and replaced with beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors which are stated by the bible to be the correct ones.
> 
> The word "christian" means "like Christ". The person who desires to be a christian makes a comparison of his/her beliefs, to those which are stated in the bible. He/she rejects all beliefs which are not biblical, and espouses only beliefs which are biblical.
> 
> Being "Catholic" or "Baptist" or "Episcopalian" does not make a person a christian, but many christians associate themselves with these, and other, churches for the benefits to their continued discipleship which the churches provide. The association with local fellowships provides trustworthy discussion and learning from other christians, as well as from clergy who are professionally trained in biblical truth.


Lots of Christians struggle with sex. It's simply not that uncommon for people to fail to totally meet the bar. If the husband has any wisdom, he will get that.


----------



## Married but Happy

TJW said:


> In order to know what is sex, the question "does this activity cause me to be bonded to the person I'm doing it with???"


Therefore, all dating is sex. So don't date if you're a serious Christian. Got it!


----------



## Ash91

My husband lied about his sexual past! He shared some but hide one! Why? Idk, but the truth ALWAYS comes out.. all I can say from my own experience, is that it hurt me, just because he lied about that ONE!

Sure the past is the past, but why lie? Why not tell the truth?


----------



## JustTheWife

BruceBanner said:


> "Because he was a good provider." That is what I imagine she will say.


Umm. No. Wrong.

We don't have a lot of money and I'm fine with that. I work too.


----------



## JustTheWife

Wazza said:


> Lots of Christians struggle with sex. It's simply not that uncommon for people to fail to totally meet the bar. If the husband has any wisdom, he will get that.


Yes, I became TOTALLY obsessed with sex and I think it was because of the strict religion in my upbringing. My life is still around the church and I don't know, it can make you crazy. Sometimes you feel like you just need to get out and go wild. I'm good at playing the perfect Christian wife with all of our friends from the church who never even drink or do anything. But i don't know how long I can do this. The only thing that gets me through these boring evenings is putting some vodka in my club soda. I know I sound horrible here but I just want to cry most of the time.


----------



## JustTheWife

Wazza said:


> Can you do the current approach for another 50 years? How do you feel in your gut?


No i'm at the end


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> To me he sounds like a good man of integrity and high moral values. I don't know why she seems to have a low opinion of him.


I don't have a low opinion of him. i have a low opininon of myself.


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> Why do you think the sex between them will get better after she tells him? It will likely get much worse or probably even stop altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can't get much worse. at least he touches me occasionally. maybe i should be thankful for that.


----------



## 2ntnuf

JustTheWife said:


> I don't have a low opinion of him. i have a low opininon of myself.


There truly is nothing wrong with you. It's not you. It's a compatibility issue and you probably didn't think much about it before. Few would know what to do about it.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> Yes, I became TOTALLY obsessed with sex and I think it was because of the strict religion in my upbringing. My life is still around the church and I don't know, it can make you crazy. Sometimes you feel like you just need to get out and go wild. I'm good at playing the perfect Christian wife with all of our friends from the church who never even drink or do anything. But i don't know how long I can do this. The only thing that gets me through these boring evenings is putting some vodka in my club soda. I know I sound horrible here but I just want to cry most of the time.




Because that’s not you. If you want to be ‘you’, you should be it and not pretend to be someone else. I keep saying that the biggest problem for YOU is that you are lying to YOURSELF in terms of who you are. And your husband got caught up in it.
Who you are doesn’t mean there’s a bad person in you; just not someone who is good at pretending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> It can't get much worse. at least he touches me occasionally. maybe i should be thankful for that.




Do you WANT him to touch you at all? Do YOU find him desirable? Or is it just his lack of lust for you that bothers you?

I’m not so sure. It could be that you need that validation and for some reason he can’t give it to you. You fear that it’s only the multitude of men who can give this validation to you. But I can promise you that once you actually find someone who you are head over heels in love with (not just ‘spiritually’ but also physically), you won’t want to obtain this from anyone else.
You also won’t need to drink as much...
I have seen this before. Many times.
It always ends the same.(You won’t be able to remain faithful until you find someone you a really click with and be yourself and those poor guys, like your husband, have no idea what’s coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Personal

JustTheWife said:


> It can't get much worse. at least he touches me occasionally. *maybe i should be thankful for that*.


Or maybe you shouldn't.


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> No i'm at the end


So don’t. Let go, and let God...

I can’t tell you what will happen if you tell your husband, but I truly believe your marriage is over if you don’t. Your only chance is to let go of control and be honest. I can’t promise you it will work to tell the truth, but lying in a marriage destroys intimacy, and in the process destroys the marriage.

Lying is a means to control him, but that is irrelevant. This thing is eating you, and controlling him doesn’t deal with that. Besides, I’ve been on your husband’s side. He doesn’t know what is wrong, but I bet he I knows there is a problem.


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> Therefore, all dating is sex. So don't date if you're a serious Christian. Got it!


You can date without sex.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> No i'm at the end


Then just TELL HIM. You know its the right thing. It will eat you up more and more.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Are BJs and anal ok before marriage though?
> That’s what a number of Catholic (supposedly) virgin girls told me back in school. Now I wonder if it was a lie.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They were lying. Its still sex.


----------



## Diana7

Wazza said:


> Lots of Christians struggle with sex. It's simply not that uncommon for people to fail to totally meet the bar. If the husband has any wisdom, he will get that.


I think that loads of people in general struggle with sex.


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> You can date without sex.


As usual, you missed the point, and the sarcasm.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> Yes, I became TOTALLY obsessed with sex and I think it was because of the strict religion in my upbringing. My life is still around the church and I don't know, it can make you crazy. Sometimes you feel like you just need to get out and go wild. I'm good at playing the perfect Christian wife with all of our friends from the church who never even drink or do anything. But i don't know how long I can do this. The only thing that gets me through these boring evenings is putting some vodka in my club soda. I know I sound horrible here but I just want to cry most of the time.


Then don't pretend. Don't be 'religious'. I am a Christian and I gave up pretending years ago. if I don't want to go to a meeting I don't go.I often don't go to church, I am no longer 'religious' but I do have a relationship with my Heavenly Dad. A real one, an honest one. Many Christians I know enjoy a drink, its not forbidden, even Jesus had wine. Do things together that you enjoy. God called king David a man after my own heart and he was very real, honest and open with his feelings and emotions. 

I think that this lie is eating you up and making you feel depressed and guilty. Just tell him for goodness sake and get that weight off your chest . No matter what happens you will feel better and know you have done the right thing. You KNOW this cant go on.


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> As usual, you missed the point, and the sarcasm.


 IF you say so


----------



## TJW

Diana7 said:


> I think that this lie is eating you up and making you feel depressed and guilty. Just tell him for goodness sake and get that weight off your chest . No matter what happens you will feel better and know you have done the right thing. You KNOW this cant go on.


Yes, this whole facade that you have sentenced yourself to is exactly what makes you want to cry. I understand that this is not only a sex problem, it is a problem of your entire lifestyle. Your lifestyle choices, in sex, and in many other aspects, do not follow nor agree with the lifestyle which you know you should have, and I believe you want to have. Otherwise, this man would have not been your marriage choice.

Diana is completely right here. Going to church does not make someone a christian. A person becomes a christian when he/she "lets go" of trying to live any particular kind of life, stops "leaning to (their) own understanding" of what will give them a life of fulfillment, and allows God to "take over".....

God then begins a process in their lives, a process of "convicting" them of the sin that is ruining their life, and "showing" them how to replace those sins with Godly thoughts, attitudes, actions, and responses.

I was 30 years old before I understood any of this....even though I had grown up a church boy, and followed "religion" until I was 17. I understood that Christ died for OUR sins.....but I didn't "get it" that He died for MY sins. I understood He died to save US from OUR sins, but not that He died to save ME from MY sins.

Many christians, including me, are not under bondage to eliminate good times with friends, even moderate use of alcoholic drinks. There are functions I attend where no one drinks, no alcohol is served, etc. I can enjoy them, as well as those where alcohol is made available. There are friends of mine, christian, and not, who I have loved over the years, and I am not at all compelled to not associate with any of them.

We are under no bondage which says that we cannot enjoy our sex life with our spouse, although we recognize that having sex in other places, other than our spouse, will lead us into sorrow and emotional pain. You are an extreme example.

We are under no bondage to not try to improve our sex lives, nor to have sex in a certain way, nor to be satisfied with mediocrity over long periods of disappointment.

We have spouses whom we love immensely, and could not even entertain the thought of being with someone else. If there are ways in which we consider our sex lives deficient, we have excellent resources, including the church, christian literature, books, websites, fellowships, and professional therapists, if needed.



JustTheWife said:


> It can't get much worse. at least he touches me occasionally. maybe i should be thankful for that.


Yes, that is where you begin. With the full understanding that improvement is possible, and attainable, if your marriage is based upon a foundation of truth and you two people truly love each other and want to be married happily.

You should understand, that thankfulness and gratitude for "what we have" is far less stressful than ruminating about "what we don't have". It is also the attitude, when seen by your husband, will gain the most receptiveness and the best responses to your requests.

Like Diana says, I can't "guarantee" that telling your husband the truth won't result in a marital disaster. However, what I'm trying to say, is that being truthful, thankful, and looking to God to meet your needs will give you the best possible chance for a continued, and satisfying marriage.


----------



## Kamstel

Just wondering, but what have you done to teach him about sex?


----------



## Kamstel

I was wondering if you can help me, I don’t understand why sex is bad to some Christians?

I get the fact that it’s good if you want to wait until you’re married. But God wants us to have fun. I was wondering if you can help me, I don’t understand why sex is bad to some Christians?

I get the fact that it’s good if you want to wait until you’re married. But God wants us to have fun. Jesus himself drink wine on a regular basis.

God gave us marriage, so that we could enjoy each other, and through sex we become closer and closer.

My advice to you, is go to the mall and go into Victoria’s Secret and buy a couple of outfits.

Tonight after dinner, ask him to clean up after dinner, and then go get into one of the outfits. And then just stand in the doorway until he turns around and notices you. And then enjoy him. Teach him how to touch you. Teach him how to please you. And you please him.

Making love is one of the best things in the world. Make him make you his obsession.


Good luck and enjoy being a loving and married couple


----------



## minimalME

Kamstel said:


> I was wondering if you can help me, I don’t understand why sex is bad to some Christians?


I've been around many, many Christians all around the world for a very long time, and I've yet to hear one even hint that 'sex is bad'.

Speaking as a Christian, sex is amazing. Love it. Can't get enough of it. I simply want it with one person - not the modern procession.


----------



## 269370

Kamstel said:


> Tonight after dinner, ask him to clean up after dinner, and then go get into one of the outfits.



Would work for me. Cleaning after dinner is, like, the most arousing thing ever 
It’s all about anticipation 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamstel

Surprise him


----------



## JustTheWife

inmyprime said:


> Do you WANT him to touch you at all? Do YOU find him desirable? Or is it just his lack of lust for you that bothers you?
> 
> I’m not so sure. It could be that you need that validation and for some reason he can’t give it to you. You fear that it’s only the multitude of men who can give this validation to you. But I can promise you that once you actually find someone who you are head over heels in love with (not just ‘spiritually’ but also physically), you won’t want to obtain this from anyone else.
> You also won’t need to drink as much...
> I have seen this before. Many times.
> It always ends the same.(You won’t be able to remain faithful until you find someone you a really click with and be yourself and those poor guys, like your husband, have no idea what’s coming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You ask a good question that I can't really answer. Yes I want to be wanted so badly. I want my husband to want me. I think needing validation is pretty normal but I don't know all the psychological reasons. I just know that I want my husband to want me. I don't see what's wrong with that.


----------



## JustTheWife

I know it's been a while but I wanted to give an update. Things are still very difficult. I accept what I need to do but I still haven't been able to bring myself to do it. I pray all the time that God will give me the courage to tell him what I've done and to deal with all of my shame. Also too give me strength to chase these bad thoughts out of my head. And to forgive me for it all.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> You ask a good question that I can't really answer. Yes I want to be wanted so badly. I want my husband to want me. I think needing validation is pretty normal but I don't know all the psychological reasons. I just know that I want my husband to want me. I don't see what's wrong with that.



Ok so have you told him that you want to be wanted and that it bothers you not be desired?
It’s a perfectly normal/reasonable need.

I look into the future and I just think you might remain miserable (the frustration will get worse over time), unless you address it with him or do something about it (now completely regardless of what you did in the past). You have better odds of having a fulfilling marriage if you actually tell him that you are unhappy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I know it's been a while but I wanted to give an update. Things are still very difficult. I accept what I need to do but I still haven't been able to bring myself to do it. I pray all the time that God will give me the courage to tell him what I've done and to deal with all of my shame. Also too give me strength to chase these bad thoughts out of my head. And to forgive me for it all.



You are not praying for the thing you should be praying...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wazza

JustTheWife said:


> I know it's been a while but I wanted to give an update. Things are still very difficult. I accept what I need to do but I still haven't been able to bring myself to do it. I pray all the time that God will give me the courage to tell him what I've done and to deal with all of my shame. Also too give me strength to chase these bad thoughts out of my head. And to forgive me for it all.


I think God has forgiven you. He doesn’t need to beat you up. You’re doing that for yourself.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I know it's been a while but I wanted to give an update. Things are still very difficult. I accept what I need to do but I still haven't been able to bring myself to do it. I pray all the time that God will give me the courage to tell him what I've done and to deal with all of my shame. Also too give me strength to chase these bad thoughts out of my head. And to forgive me for it all.


Just do it. Write it in a letter if that is easier. This pressure wont go away till you do the right thing.
IF you want a good honest marriage then you have no choice. Yes you may loose him, but you may well open the door for you both to have an honest open discussion about everything.


----------



## hinterdir

JustTheWife said:


> You ask a good question that I can't really answer. Yes I want to be wanted so badly. I want my husband to want me. I think needing validation is pretty normal but I don't know all the psychological reasons. I just know that I want my husband to want me. I don't see what's wrong with that.


By the way you describe him, he doesn't sounded attracted to you. What was dating like, did he seem to "want" you then. Always affectionate, wanting to kiss, the kisses were passionate? For you two to be newly married and for him to act as if he has no desire doesn't sound right. Like he's asexual or he's gay or that he just doesn't find you attractive. Seems too young for his testosterone levels to be low and for you to have put on 60 pounds. You two should be in your "can't keep your hands off each other" phase. 

How physically interested in you did he seem while dating?


----------



## JustTheWife

hinterdir said:


> By the way you describe him, he doesn't sounded attracted to you. What was dating like, did he seem to "want" you then. Always affectionate, wanting to kiss, the kisses were passionate? For you two to be newly married and for him to act as if he has no desire doesn't sound right. Like he's asexual or he's gay or that he just doesn't find you attractive. Seems too young for his testosterone levels to be low and for you to have put on 60 pounds. You two should be in your "can't keep your hands off each other" phase.
> 
> How physically interested in you did he seem while dating?


He tells me I'm beautiful. He does show affection like he'll stroke my arm or hold my hand. 

There is a difference in this compared to really being wanted like in a sexual way. He's a very serious type of person and very "formal" acting. He puts up barriers and is not very open to say how he feels other than like some husband/wife kind of affection. We don't talk really openly. He gives affection like you're "supposed to" give your wife. Like saying things you're supposed to say to your wife. I'm not complaining about him I'm just trying to answer your question honestly.

When we were dating we didn't have sex or do anything sexual (as you know) and he was affectionate in pretty much the same way that he is now. He told me I was beautiful and I liked that and he looked at me like he really loved me. He always treated me like I was "precious" or like pure and delicate. Maybe this adds to the guilt that I have. 

Most of the guys that i've been with have been very horny and aggressive. I don't really know what the issue is. Maybe he doesn't think it's "proper". or maybe he doesn't think it's God's way to be sexual or whatever. Or maybe he has a low sex drive. Sometimes I think it's because he wants to keep me pure (funny yes I know). Or because he thinks its disrespectful of me. I don't really know. 

He's not like some soft pushover. He's extremely strong willed and sure of himself. He takes strong charge of everything except for doing me.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> I've been around many, many Christians all around the world for a very long time, and I've yet to hear one even hint that 'sex is bad'.
> 
> Speaking as a Christian, sex is amazing. Love it. Can't get enough of it. I simply want it with one person - not the modern procession.


 Yep. We are of the opinion that God created us as sexual beings, and he made sex to be very enjoyable but to stay within marriage. 
I haven't heard that said either.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> He tells me I'm beautiful. He does show affection like he'll stroke my arm or hold my hand.
> 
> There is a difference in this compared to really being wanted like in a sexual way. He's a very serious type of person and very "formal" acting. He puts up barriers and is not very open to say how he feels other than like some husband/wife kind of affection. We don't talk really openly. He gives affection like you're "supposed to" give your wife. Like saying things you're supposed to say to your wife. I'm not complaining about him I'm just trying to answer your question honestly.
> 
> When we were dating we didn't have sex or do anything sexual (as you know) and he was affectionate in pretty much the same way that he is now. He told me I was beautiful and I liked that and he looked at me like he really loved me. He always treated me like I was "precious" or like pure and delicate. Maybe this adds to the guilt that I have.
> 
> Most of the guys that i've been with have been very horny and aggressive. I don't really know what the issue is. Maybe he doesn't think it's "proper". or maybe he doesn't think it's God's way to be sexual or whatever. Or maybe he has a low sex drive. Sometimes I think it's because he wants to keep me pure (funny yes I know). Or because he thinks its disrespectful of me. I don't really know.
> 
> He's not like some soft pushover. He's extremely strong willed and sure of himself. He takes strong charge of everything except for doing me.


When you tell him about your past why not suggest some marriage counselling together.IT seem that your 
communication is poor. However you must tell him first, nothing will improve until you do. You know its the right thing and it will only get harder the longer you leave it.


----------



## [email protected]

It don't recall whether you ever did the playmate thing with him. But if not, maybe you should. It could fire up his imagination. If he questions, you could say you heard from girlfriends, or something. Some guys are like me. I can be aggressive, even violently so if need be. But when it comes to W or a granddaughter, I can become a pushover. Anyhow, you can't lose anything if you become the aggressor.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> He tells me I'm beautiful. He does show affection like he'll stroke my arm or hold my hand.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a difference in this compared to really being wanted like in a sexual way. He's a very serious type of person and very "formal" acting. He puts up barriers and is not very open to say how he feels other than like some husband/wife kind of affection. We don't talk really openly. He gives affection like you're "supposed to" give your wife. Like saying things you're supposed to say to your wife. I'm not complaining about him I'm just trying to answer your question honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> When we were dating we didn't have sex or do anything sexual (as you know) and he was affectionate in pretty much the same way that he is now. He told me I was beautiful and I liked that and he looked at me like he really loved me. He always treated me like I was "precious" or like pure and delicate. Maybe this adds to the guilt that I have.
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the guys that i've been with have been very horny and aggressive. I don't really know what the issue is. Maybe he doesn't think it's "proper". or maybe he doesn't think it's God's way to be sexual or whatever. Or maybe he has a low sex drive. Sometimes I think it's because he wants to keep me pure (funny yes I know). Or because he thinks its disrespectful of me. I don't really know.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not like some soft pushover. He's extremely strong willed and sure of himself. He takes strong charge of everything except for doing me.




You are not compatible sexually, it’s as simple as that. It has nothing to do with what you have done in the past.
That’s why it’s a bad idea (or at least a big risk) to wait till marriage to find all of this out.

It doesn’t mean that one should be sleeping around with anyone just that it’s a good idea to work out whether you are compatible first and then decide whether to marry or not.

The trouble is that you are stuck with it now. You have to try and figure out how to change it. You have to learnt to talk to him about this issue. (Discuss with him that you don’t really feel all that wanted, sexually). Go to a counsellor who specialises in sexual issues. You may be able to help it, up to a point.

But if not...lets put it this way: since you both are religious, breaking up the marriage for you without a very strong reason will be difficult. 
If you do tell him, he may decide to exit the marriage and given the circumstances, this may be a blessing in disguise for you (especially if the situation does become unbearable). 
However I don’t think the odds are likely he will leave you over this.

Whatever you do, don’t have kids yet, until you are really sure this is the life you want.
Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> There is a difference in this compared to really being wanted like in a sexual way.
> He told me I was beautiful and I liked that and he looked at me like he really loved me. He always treated me like I was "precious" or like pure and delicate.


Wow. I wonder how many women would just give anything to have their husband treat them like they were precious, pure, and delicate ?

Yet, because your sexuality has been formed in the "meat-market" arena, you consider that this is not "really being wanted". Your sex attitudes have been shaped by men who were only out to USE you for their own immediate gratification, none of these men were looking for a precious, pure and delicate wife to share their life with. only a quick "piece". 

You have, unfortunately, accepted a perversion as being "really wanted", when, I fully believe that your husband does truly want you.



JustTheWife said:


> He's not like some soft pushover. He's extremely strong willed and sure of himself. He takes strong charge of everything except for doing me.


I would assert that your husband is, even in his sexual approach to you, being "strong willed" and "sure of himself". He does indeed take "strong charge" of that area in your lives, too. It's just that the approach which he considers RIGHT and GODLY and beneficial to edify and please his wife is not one you recognize as containing "desire".

BTW - I think your prayer is very much "on track", and very much in keeping with how the bible tells us that we are to approach God with our petitions....I believe God has heard your prayer, and I believe He will honor your request.


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> Wow. I wonder how many women would just give anything to have their husband treat them like they were precious, pure, and delicate ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, because your sexuality has been formed in the "meat-market" arena, you consider that this is not "really being wanted". Your sex attitudes have been shaped by men who were only out to USE you for their own immediate gratification, none of these men were looking for a precious, pure and delicate wife to share their life with. only a quick "piece".
> 
> 
> 
> You have, unfortunately, accepted a perversion as being "really wanted", when, I fully believe that your husband does truly want you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would assert that your husband is, even in his sexual approach to you, being "strong willed" and "sure of himself". He does indeed take "strong charge" of that area in your lives, too. It's just that the approach which he considers RIGHT and GODLY and beneficial to edify and please his wife is not one you recognize as containing "desire".
> 
> 
> 
> BTW - I think your prayer is very much "on track", and very much in keeping with how the bible tells us that we are to approach God with our petitions....I believe God has heard your prayer, and I believe He will honor your request.



Oh dear. I’m not sure how healthy it is to keep blaming their lack of sexual compatibility on her having had an active sexual life beforehand.

I have known SO MANY girls who were very ‘up for anything’ in school; some of them married unhappily and continued being ‘up for anything’ with anyone except their husband, some of them found The Perfect compatible partner and were ‘up for anything’ with that partner and never needed anything else.

This sounds like such an outdated view from last century. I mean who the hell doesn’t want to **** their wife 24/7 in any possible way? 

If my main love language towards my wife was stroking her arm and admiring her ‘purity’, she would slap the devil out of me with the frying pan over the head  before I could even pronounce that word.

There’s nothing wrong with her wanting her husband to want her. It’s like the minimum ‘requirement’ when married to someone IMO. (No, arm stroking is not the same...My wife found it very irritating too).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## badsanta

JustTheWife said:


> You ask a good question that I can't really answer. Yes I want to be wanted so badly. I want my husband to want me. I think needing validation is pretty normal but I don't know all the psychological reasons. I just know that I want my husband to want me. I don't see what's wrong with that.


When you have something someone wants, you have control over the other person. If you want something someone else has, that person has control over you. 

"I want you to want me" is like saying someone has control over you but you still want to ultimately be the one on control. 

Using a dominant and subdominant relationship for example... The top is dominant and in control. The bottom is subdominant and gives up control. It is actually very common in the relationships for "topping from the bottom" to occur. This is when the person giving up control gives precise instructions that the dominant person must follow for making them a subdominant. Imagine saying that you want to be spanked, you pick out a whip, insist when it is to be done, how hard, and how often... your partner complies but does really not like giving you spankings. Who is controlling and dominating who in this situation, and why is that situation problematic from the start? Ultimately the dominant person wants to experience subdominance but only when done in a controlled situation. 

So you want a man to take control of you with his desire, as long as you can be the one in control of that desire. Finding a man reserved with his desire now insures that once he does do it that you will know it was because you commanded him to do so with your beauty. If he readily desired you arbitrarily all the time, there would be no interest in your behalf but you perhaps have trouble acknowledging why (because you would have no control over that form of desire)...

Ultimately you will have to recognize that you are the dominant one in the relationship sexually and just own it. You are the one in control and have to take full responsibility for what happens and when. If you need your husband to role play as if he has an sudden and aggressive desire for sex and that he needs you to suddenly submit to his needs, you need to understand sooner than later that doing so is just going to be a form of role play. Perhaps you can work on determining his triggers to make him very aroused and become aggressive, but go ahead and admit that you will have to do all the work to make that happen. 

You can't want someone to want you and also be lazy about making it happen!!!!!

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## hinterdir

JustTheWife said:


> He tells me I'm beautiful. He does show affection like he'll stroke my arm or hold my hand.
> 
> There is a difference in this compared to really being wanted like in a sexual way. He's a very serious type of person and very "formal" acting. He puts up barriers and is not very open to say how he feels other than like some husband/wife kind of affection. We don't talk really openly. He gives affection like you're "supposed to" give your wife. Like saying things you're supposed to say to your wife. I'm not complaining about him I'm just trying to answer your question honestly.
> 
> When we were dating we didn't have sex or do anything sexual (as you know) and he was affectionate in pretty much the same way that he is now. He told me I was beautiful and I liked that and he looked at me like he really loved me. He always treated me like I was "precious" or like pure and delicate. Maybe this adds to the guilt that I have.
> 
> Most of the guys that i've been with have been very horny and aggressive. I don't really know what the issue is. Maybe he doesn't think it's "proper". or maybe he doesn't think it's God's way to be sexual or whatever. Or maybe he has a low sex drive. Sometimes I think it's because he wants to keep me pure (funny yes I know). Or because he thinks its disrespectful of me. I don't really know.
> 
> He's not like some soft pushover. He's extremely strong willed and sure of himself. He takes strong charge of everything except for doing me.


Your marriage is going to fail. It is inevitable....it is unvermeidlich. One of the biggest problems in marriage is poor communication. What you describe is extremely poor communication. Also there is lying and deceit. 

A husband and wife should have wide open communication and they should share honestly and lovingly their desires, feelings, likes and dislikes, what their goals are, what their fears are. 

You are spilling your guts here, hoping he'll start to show more passion, desire, spontaneity, lust in your marriage, hiding your feelings from him, leaving him in the dark, you talk like he is shut off too. 

If you are displeased with the bedroom what the hell are we going to do about it? You've got to go to him and tell him openly and honestly but speak the truth in love. Don't complain, put him down, criticize etc. Tell him with love how you'd love it if he just took you like you were the most delicious food on the Earth and like he hadn't eaten in a month and as if he wanted you so bad he couldn't contain himself, tell him you want him and you wish so much you two could be intimate for often, while making love ask him to do this or that, please touch me here or I like that would you do that to me more, ask him what he'd like you to do to him, ask him what he'd like to try but that he was too ashamed to ask for, assure him you won't judge. 

You two have to share your hearts, share your desires, communicate lovingly if something disappointed you if something has hurt you. Your communication has to get a lot better. You should be openly discussing your love life with him....not us. You've got to tell him what you really feel, tell him what you want, tell him what you don't like, you've got to get him to tell you the same about him. You have to do it with love and tell him how you feel or what you'd like but not word it as what he's doing wrong. 

Tell him you desire him and you want him and you had hoped he'd want you all the time after marriage and that you are sad when it seems you don't want you as much as you want him....you've got to be vulnerable. 

This keeping your true wants, feelings, thoughts, dreams, fears to yourself and him doing the same is going to kill this marriage. 

Also, the lying. I am of the belief that this will come out some how whether you fess up or not. The guilt is probably also stopping you from being yourself with him. 

This marriage has disaster written all over it unless some things change.


----------



## JustTheWife

TJW said:


> Wow. I wonder how many women would just give anything to have their husband treat them like they were precious, pure, and delicate ?
> 
> Yet, because your sexuality has been formed in the "meat-market" arena, you consider that this is not "really being wanted". Your sex attitudes have been shaped by men who were only out to USE you for their own immediate gratification, none of these men were looking for a precious, pure and delicate wife to share their life with. only a quick "piece".
> 
> You have, unfortunately, accepted a perversion as being "really wanted", when, I fully believe that your husband does truly want you.
> 
> 
> 
> I would assert that your husband is, even in his sexual approach to you, being "strong willed" and "sure of himself". He does indeed take "strong charge" of that area in your lives, too. It's just that the approach which he considers RIGHT and GODLY and beneficial to edify and please his wife is not one you recognize as containing "desire".
> 
> BTW - I think your prayer is very much "on track", and very much in keeping with how the bible tells us that we are to approach God with our petitions....I believe God has heard your prayer, and I believe He will honor your request.


Thank you. I'm not sure I agree with everything you are saying but you have an interesting view. I don't know why I like what I like but you may be right. Maybe it was because that's all that I really experienced. Sometimes I think that I always tried to live up to my first time which was really intense and totally perverted as you say. I mean that guy made me do everything and i just followed along. He got into my head and it was like total mind games. It was like a whole journey he took me on slowly bringing out my shame and taking everything until i had no more purity or dignity. Like he got into my soul. He was just a stranger but he changed me like nobody ever did.

That night changed me forever and how do you just forget it? Then it was one guy after anohter once that first guy took everything from me. All of this had a huge impact on me. I guess i'm supposed to just tell my husband that I slept with some other guys but it meant nothing. Or do I tell the truth and say that these experiences had more of an impact on me thatn just about anything else in my life including my religion ( so hard to say that but true)?


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Okay, so you rode the C*ck Carousel and you have an idea that your "needs" are not being met. You DO have an opportunity to get your hubby in the saddle here. NO, I would not go and confess to all about your past proclivities. Let that dog lie...You need to tell him as you are getting "older" your needs are changing. And this is a GREAT time to explore things together and make our love and lust grow. Maybe suggest reading a book or two? Or how about trying things together, slowly. But if you can see one thing here....

It's communication. It ain't gonna happen if you don't sit down together in peace and quiet and talk face to face. You have 77 pages of people discussing your sexual past and whatnot. Yet I don't see that you talking to your hubby and working on things in general....


One thing I learned that by sitting facing my partner. Holding our hands while looking into each others eyes builds upon that trust. You need to feel safe and equal to your partner, and he needs the reaffirming of his need to be desired and wanted...


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you. I'm not sure I agree with everything you are saying but you have an interesting view. I don't know why I like what I like but you may be right. Maybe it was because that's all that I really experienced. Sometimes I think that I always tried to live up to my first time which was really intense and totally perverted as you say. I mean that guy made me do everything and i just followed along. He got into my head and it was like total mind games. It was like a whole journey he took me on slowly bringing out my shame and taking everything until i had no more purity or dignity. Like he got into my soul. He was just a stranger but he changed me like nobody ever did.
> 
> That night changed me forever and how do you just forget it? Then it was one guy after anohter once that first guy took everything from me. All of this had a huge impact on me. I guess i'm supposed to just tell my husband that I slept with some other guys but it meant nothing. Or do I tell the truth and say that these experiences had more of an impact on me thatn just about anything else in my life including my religion ( so hard to say that but true)?


Please pray that any connections that were formed between you and your previous sexual partners be broken. When we have sex with someone we set up a soul tie with that person which is why its damaging to have many sexual partners. Its sort of as if we are then carrying a little of that person around with us. You need to be freed from that connection spiritually. This is really important to do with each of the men. Use the name of Jesus, its so powerful. 

Then tell him, you KNOW its what is right and what God wants you to do. I know you are worried that it will end this marriage, but this marriage will never be good with such hidden lies and may well end in a mess anyway. There is hope, but honestly is vital. God wants to repair the broken pieces of your life so that you can be loved in a deep and real way, not in that way that those mean treated you. That wasn't love, that was using you and taking advantage of you.


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Please pray that any connections that were formed between you and your previous sexual partners be broken. When we have sex with someone we set up a soul tie with that person which is why its damaging to have many sexual partners. Its sort of as if we are then carrying a little of that person around with us. You need to be freed from that connection spiritually. This is really important to do with each of the men. Use the name of Jesus, its so powerful.
> 
> Then tell him, you KNOW its what is right and what God wants you to do. I know you are worried that it will end this marriage, but this marriage will never be good with such hidden lies and may well end in a mess anyway. There is hope, but honestly is vital. God wants to repair the broken pieces of your life so that you can be loved in a deep and real way, not in that way that those mean treated you. That wasn't love, that was using you and taking advantage of you.


You're right that there is a connection made forever. That's how I feel at least. Maybe it's different for guys or other women can just have sex with guys and move on. Exactly as you say, that's the problem when you have had too many totally random sex partners like I have had. It stays with you forever and becomes part of you - the guy, the feeling, the really intense experience.

Your also right that I need God's help to break this. It's in my soul, the men, the shame,the ecstasy, all the confused really powerful feelings are swirling around me. I have prayed about this and i want to be pure again and free from all of this but i'm not sure this is possible. 

I sat down and wrote a list of all the guys and what we did. Some I couldn't even name which is totally disgusting. "Tall guy at Kim's party" or whatever. On one level it's like totally meaningless and on the other level it's so deep and meaningful. Every one of them. I know that some Christians believe that you're "married" in God's eyes when you have sex with someone. But whatever you believe, it's a seriously intense and serious act. Like i said, people might say "meaningless sex" but can any sex really be meaningless? Like the guy is inside your body.


----------



## JustTheWife

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Okay, so you rode the C*ck Carousel and you have an idea that your "needs" are not being met. You DO have an opportunity to get your hubby in the saddle here. NO, I would not go and confess to all about your past proclivities. Let that dog lie...You need to tell him as you are getting "older" your needs are changing. And this is a GREAT time to explore things together and make our love and lust grow. Maybe suggest reading a book or two? Or how about trying things together, slowly. But if you can see one thing here....
> 
> It's communication. It ain't gonna happen if you don't sit down together in peace and quiet and talk face to face. You have 77 pages of people discussing your sexual past and whatnot. Yet I don't see that you talking to your hubby and working on things in general....
> 
> 
> One thing I learned that by sitting facing my partner. Holding our hands while looking into each others eyes builds upon that trust. You need to feel safe and equal to your partner, and he needs the reaffirming of his need to be desired and wanted...


yes, i agree that you need to feel safe and build trust to deal with things like this. I don't think we're open enough with each other now.

Oh and the carousel. That really paints a picture. I wish i could say it wasn't that way but I guess that pretty much sums it up. Dropping my head in deep shame.


----------



## JustTheWife

badsanta said:


> When you have something someone wants, you have control over the other person. If you want something someone else has, that person has control over you.
> 
> "I want you to want me" is like saying someone has control over you but you still want to ultimately be the one on control.
> 
> Using a dominant and subdominant relationship for example... The top is dominant and in control. The bottom is subdominant and gives up control. It is actually very common in the relationships for "topping from the bottom" to occur. This is when the person giving up control gives precise instructions that the dominant person must follow for making them a subdominant. Imagine saying that you want to be spanked, you pick out a whip, insist when it is to be done, how hard, and how often... your partner complies but does really not like giving you spankings. Who is controlling and dominating who in this situation, and why is that situation problematic from the start? Ultimately the dominant person wants to experience subdominance but only when done in a controlled situation.
> 
> So you want a man to take control of you with his desire, as long as you can be the one in control of that desire. Finding a man reserved with his desire now insures that once he does do it that you will know it was because you commanded him to do so with your beauty. If he readily desired you arbitrarily all the time, there would be no interest in your behalf but you perhaps have trouble acknowledging why (because you would have no control over that form of desire)...
> 
> Ultimately you will have to recognize that you are the dominant one in the relationship sexually and just own it. You are the one in control and have to take full responsibility for what happens and when. If you need your husband to role play as if he has an sudden and aggressive desire for sex and that he needs you to suddenly submit to his needs, you need to understand sooner than later that doing so is just going to be a form of role play. Perhaps you can work on determining his triggers to make him very aroused and become aggressive, but go ahead and admit that you will have to do all the work to make that happen.
> 
> You can't want someone to want you and also be lazy about making it happen!!!!!
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


I am not good at being in charge. I don't like being "dominant". I don't try to control the desire as you say. I don't really have a fantasy about "being wanted". I've been with guys who acted like they didn't reallly want ME but just wanted sex. Like just a hole. I don't really care and that can be interesting as you really are submissive if it's like that. Anyway, i'm just trying to say that i don't really try to control a guy's desire for me. But my husband doesn't even think about sex when he's around me. Maybe it's the whole purity thing - like I'm too pure and delicate to want to dirty me. Maybe if he saw me as just a hole, he'd want me???? Who knows?


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> You're right that there is a connection made forever. That's how I feel at least. Maybe it's different for guys or other women can just have sex with guys and move on. Exactly as you say, that's the problem when you have had too many totally random sex partners like I have had. It stays with you forever and becomes part of you - the guy, the feeling, the really intense experience.
> 
> Your also right that I need God's help to break this. It's in my soul, the men, the shame,the ecstasy, all the confused really powerful feelings are swirling around me. I have prayed about this and i want to be pure again and free from all of this but i'm not sure this is possible.
> 
> I sat down and wrote a list of all the guys and what we did. Some I couldn't even name which is totally disgusting. "Tall guy at Kim's party" or whatever. On one level it's like totally meaningless and on the other level it's so deep and meaningful. Every one of them. I know that some Christians believe that you're "married" in God's eyes when you have sex with someone. But whatever you believe, it's a seriously intense and serious act. Like i said, people might say "meaningless sex" but can any sex really be meaningless? Like the guy is inside your body.


Is there anyone you know who God uses for prayer/ministry? They can help you with this, and pray for God to set you free from these soul ties. Anything is possible with Him. Yes it s a very serious act, you are joined emotionally, physically and spiritually when you have sex with someone, and in a strange way also part of all the people they had sex with as well. Being that these guys were clearly ones who slept around, that may be many hundreds of people. That's why God is so wise when He says that sex seals the marriage covenant and its just for marriage. 

Don't despair though, God can and will do this for you. Part of this though is that you be honest with your husband.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I am not good at being in charge. I don't like being "dominant". I don't try to control the desire as you say. I don't really have a fantasy about "being wanted". I've been with guys who acted like they didn't reallly want ME but just wanted sex. Like just a hole. I don't really care and that can be interesting as you really are submissive if it's like that. Anyway, i'm just trying to say that i don't really try to control a guy's desire for me. But my husband doesn't even think about sex when he's around me. Maybe it's the whole purity thing - like I'm too pure and delicate to want to dirty me. Maybe if he saw me as just a hole, he'd want me???? Who knows?


Any man who sees you as just a hole is not a man who is worth bothering with. You are comparing this good moral man with those awful, immoral, selfish men who only wanted one thing and cared nothing for you at all.


----------



## hinterdir

JustTheWife said:


> You're right that there is a connection made forever. That's how I feel at least. Maybe it's different for guys or other women can just have sex with guys and move on.  Exactly as you say, that's the problem when you have had too many totally random sex partners like I have had. It stays with you forever and becomes part of you - the guy, the feeling, the really intense experience.
> 
> Your also right that I need God's help to break this. It's in my soul, the men, the shame,the ecstasy, all the confused really powerful feelings are swirling around me. I have prayed about this and i want to be pure again and free from all of this but i'm not sure this is possible.
> 
> I sat down and wrote a list of all the guys and what we did. Some I couldn't even name which is totally disgusting. "Tall guy at Kim's party" or whatever. On one level it's like totally meaningless and on the other level it's so deep and meaningful. Every one of them. I know that some Christians believe that you're "married" in God's eyes when you have sex with someone. But whatever you believe, it's a seriously intense and serious act. Like i said, people might say "meaningless sex" but can any sex really be meaningless? Like the guy is inside your body.


How many was it?


----------



## badsanta

JustTheWife said:


> I am not good at being in charge. I don't like being "dominant". I don't try to control the desire as you say. I don't really have a fantasy about "being wanted". I've been with guys who acted like they didn't reallly want ME but just wanted sex. Like just a hole. I don't really care and that can be interesting as you really are submissive if it's like that. Anyway, i'm just trying to say that i don't really try to control a guy's desire for me. But my husband doesn't even think about sex when he's around me. Maybe it's the whole purity thing - like I'm too pure and delicate to want to dirty me. Maybe if he saw me as just a hole, he'd want me???? Who knows?


Perhaps being "dominant" is a poor choice of words, because there is nothing outside of a vanilla set of desires and actions that is the objective for lovemaking in this context. 

I am not saying that you need to do anything submissive or disrespectful with yourself to get your husband's attention...

What I am saying is that you don't want to be used, but you want to feel loved sexually. You have situated yourself with a man that you know will not use you for sex, so therefor when it happens it will be within a loving context. The catch twenty two is that he may not be motivated or perhaps very reserved to initiate things. You should not wait! You will have to be the one that initiates in a loving and respectful way in order to get him to respond. 

If you have a partner with a "responsive" desire, you will have to own up to the fact that you will be forever responsible for creating a response. You can't sit around and wait for it to just happen and then get frustrated. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Is there anyone you know who God uses for prayer/ministry? They can help you with this, and pray for God to set you free from these soul ties. Anything is possible with Him. Yes it s a very serious act, you are joined emotionally, physically and spiritually when you have sex with someone, and in a strange way also part of all the people they had sex with as well. Being that these guys were clearly ones who slept around, that may be many hundreds of people. That's why God is so wise when He says that sex seals the marriage covenant and its just for marriage.
> 
> Don't despair though, God can and will do this for you. Part of this though is that you be honest with your husband.


Yes but they are all in my church and I simply can't talk about this within my church. We moved here about a year ago from pretty far away. I hope this doesn't sound funny but at one point I went to another church (another Christian religion) to confession. It was burning in me and I decided to do that. Maybe in a way it could be seen as practice to confessing to my husband when that time is right.

Yes, being joined emotionally, spiritually and physically is a good way to put it. And kind of like being married in God's eyes. That's really heavy stuff when you think about it.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> You're right that there is a connection made forever. That's how I feel at least. Maybe it's different for guys or other women can just have sex with guys and move on.


If guys and gals could have sex and "just move on".... then God would tell us that it's "ok"...just go ahead and enjoy ourselves.....there will be no permanent or lasting impact of our behavior.... however, His word tells us quite the opposite..... and, no, it is not different for guys, nor is it different for other women. 

Of course, there may be some who try to convince themselves, and others, that there is "no problem" with premarital sex. But the truth is, our first sexual experience is largely deterministic as to how we will continue to approach sexuality. God know this about His design..... that's why He teaches us that having this first experience within a committed marriage is the safest way to ensure that we will have a continued sex experience which is fulfilling and gratifying.



JustTheWife said:


> Exactly as you say, that's the problem when you have had too many totally random sex partners like I have had. It stays with you forever and becomes part of you - the guy, the feeling, the really intense experience.
> 
> Your also right that I need God's help to break this. It's in my soul, the men, the shame,the ecstasy, all the confused really powerful feelings are swirling around me. I have prayed about this and i want to be pure again and free from all of this but i'm not sure this is possible.


It is not possible for any of us to "forget" our past. It remains part of our memory system forever. However, what is possible is for us, with God's help, to CHOOSE to not allow our past to "rule" in our bodies and our psyche. With God, all things are possible, and God will supply us with strength, knowledge, and other people who can instruct us in how to choose, and how to replace our bad choices with good ones, going forward.

God, in His wisdom, has given us a plan of salvation. And, if His plan is followed, we again become "pure" and "free". It takes time, it takes effort, it takes work, and it takes the help of knowledgeable people. It is indeed possible for us to choose the "pure" and the "free" instead of bondage. God has made this possible for you and for me and for all who will choose HIS way, instead of our own way.

Let me recommend this book. It is an older work, there may be some later works on the subject, but I know this author to be very true to the bible and knowledgeable of sound christian practice:

https://www.amazon.com/Freeing-Your-Mind-Memories-That/dp/0840745427



JustTheWife said:


> Like i said, people might say "meaningless sex" but can any sex really be meaningless? Like the guy is inside your body.


No sex is "meaningless". We are changed. Sex writes upon the slate of our lives. There's no "eraser". However, we can learn, and we can choose, to keep those memories in "quarantine" and to not allow ourselves to be "reinfected" by them.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> Yes but they are all in my church and I simply can't talk about this within my church.


I think it will be quite difficult for you to talk about this to any church "at-large". However, God has people within His Son's "body" who are gifted, trained, educated, and able to help you. It may be from professional counselors, it may be from clergy, or lay people. 

In God's wisdom, one thing a christian never has to be is alone. Ask God to bring you to the "right" people.

And, while you're asking.... get yourself a notebook, and write your prayers into it, with a date and time. Revisit your notebook from time to time, and you will be amazed how God has answered.

I will not be surprised to learn that you discover your husband to be one of God's "right" people.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

John 8:11
"Go forth and sin no more..."

You have been redeemed. And with your husband, you should and WILL make anew! You need to let go of your past and start living in the now. Also, with an eye to the future. I feel you are beating yourself up too much. It happened. And yes, that is part of your life (in the past). But it is NOT a part of you. And not a part of your marriage. Make this beautiful, make it strong and do it TOGETHER with your life partner....

You will do just fine....


----------



## JustTheWife

TJW said:


> If guys and gals could have sex and "just move on".... then God would tell us that it's "ok"...just go ahead and enjoy ourselves.....there will be no permanent or lasting impact of our behavior.... however, His word tells us quite the opposite..... and, no, it is not different for guys, nor is it different for other women.
> 
> Of course, there may be some who try to convince themselves, and others, that there is "no problem" with premarital sex. But the truth is, our first sexual experience is largely deterministic as to how we will continue to approach sexuality. God know this about His design..... that's why He teaches us that having this first experience within a committed marriage is the safest way to ensure that we will have a continued sex experience which is fulfilling and gratifying.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not possible for any of us to "forget" our past. It remains part of our memory system forever. However, what is possible is for us, with God's help, to CHOOSE to not allow our past to "rule" in our bodies and our psyche. With God, all things are possible, and God will supply us with strength, knowledge, and other people who can instruct us in how to choose, and how to replace our bad choices with good ones, going forward.
> 
> God, in His wisdom, has given us a plan of salvation. And, if His plan is followed, we again become "pure" and "free". It takes time, it takes effort, it takes work, and it takes the help of knowledgeable people. It is indeed possible for us to choose the "pure" and the "free" instead of bondage. God has made this possible for you and for me and for all who will choose HIS way, instead of our own way.
> 
> Let me recommend this book. It is an older work, there may be some later works on the subject, but I know this author to be very true to the bible and knowledgeable of sound christian practice:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Freeing-Your-Mind-Memories-That/dp/0840745427
> 
> 
> 
> No sex is "meaningless". We are changed. Sex writes upon the slate of our lives. There's no "eraser". However, we can learn, and we can choose, to keep those memories in "quarantine" and to not allow ourselves to be "reinfected" by them.


Hi TJW, thank you for your thoughts. I think you understand the problem very well. Having sex for me has always been a big deal even though I've been very promiscuous.


----------



## JustTheWife

hinterdir said:


> How many was it?


Far too many. Very ashamed of myself. Nothing left of me.


----------



## personofinterest

JustTheWife said:


> Far too many. Very ashamed of myself. *Nothing left of me*.



The bolded part is simply not true.

Way back when, there used to be this completely unbiblical practice called self-flagellation. People would literally beat themselves bloody with whips.

We got rid of the whips, but some "Christians" believe we should still self-flagellate. Actually...THEY don't self-flagellate; they just encourage others to.

When Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more, he was telling her to stop her sin. He was also telling her to go. AND he didn't follow behind her reminding her of all the bad she had done - you know, just to keep her humble (insert vomit emoji here).


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. Have you repented to the ONLY ONE who can clean you? If yes, then you are clean.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you different, even in the church. They obviously lost huge chunks of their Bibles.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JustTheWife said:


> Far too many. Very ashamed of myself. Nothing left of me.


This is one of those very heartbreaking posts. 

You make it sound like you shot up a school or burned a church after locking all the parishioners inside.

You had sex. Okay. Not the end of the world. Even if it was a lot of sex with a lot of different guys. And I say this as someone who personally waited until he met his wife! But I had no such expectations of my wife, nor do I care, so long as at the time of our commitment to each other, she was devoted to me and me only. And she is, so all's well that ends well.

I hear a great deal of self loathing on your part, which is sad. You can be ashamed of what you did, but you don't need to let what you did define who you are. My fear is that you let your distaste for your past actions mean that you are not worthy of redemption, or incapacitate you in becoming the person you would like to be. When you get up in the morning, all that matters is who you are and what you do today. We all have things in our past we're not proud of, but the key is to learn from them rather than berate ourselves about them. 

This way of looking at things fits well with the proper application of Christian principles as discussed here, but also stands independently of it as well. It also fits with Buddhist philosophy, or pretty much any spiritual or even non-spiritual path you can think of. It's that universal. 

Everyone here wants your life to be a thing of great wonder and joy from this moment forward. Please don't allow your past to interfere with that.


----------



## badsanta

JustTheWife said:


> Far too many. Very ashamed of myself. Nothing left of me.


Generally speaking "shame and sexuality" when mixed within the context of marriage will not work. 

The ultimate goal in marriage is to allow your partner to fully know you. If there are parts about who you are that are not meant to be shared, then your partner should be part of that decision. If shame prevents that, you have a problem. 

You should tell your husband that there are things about your past that you feel shameful about and are best left in the past. Explain that you do not want to ever talk about those things with him. Ask him if he can be OK with that. If he agrees, then there you go.... You have confessed your shame to him and he has let it go. If he does feel like he needs to know, then tell him you need some time and figure how to let go of that shame as a couple. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## hinterdir

personofinterest said:


> The bolded part is simply not true.
> 
> Way back when, there used to be this completely unbiblical practice called self-flagellation. People would literally beat themselves bloody with whips.
> 
> We got rid of the whips, but some "Christians" believe we should still self-flagellate. Actually...THEY don't self-flagellate; they just encourage others to.
> 
> When Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more, he was telling her to stop her sin. He was also telling her to go. AND he didn't follow behind her reminding her of all the bad she had done - you know, just to keep her humble (insert vomit emoji here).
> 
> 
> If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. Have you repented to the ONLY ONE who can clean you? If yes, then you are clean.
> 
> Don't listen to anyone who tells you different, even in the church. They obviously lost huge chunks of their Bibles.


True, as far as salvation and her relationship with God. I'm not sure that really helps things were her husband. It probably would have been a lot better and wiser to marry a guy who had also slept around so they were kind of in the same place instead of this bait and switch she pulled on a guy who waited and apparently had the same desire to find in a wife. I'm not really sure this mismatch and deceit can be salvaged.


----------



## personofinterest

hinterdir said:


> True, as far as salvation and her relationship with God. I'm not sure that really helps things were her husband. It probably would have been a lot better and wiser to marry a guy who had also slept around so they were kind of in the same place instead of this bait and switch she pulled on a guy who waited and apparently had the same desire to find in a wife. I'm not really sure this mismatch and deceit can be salvaged.


I guess if one doesn't really understand what transformation and new creation means, this would be true. But clean means clean. It may not help the marriage. Much of that will depend on A. What she does about telling him the truth B. How he responds to the truth. But no, you don't have to make sure you marry someone as dirty as you are or some other such nonsense in order to have a good marriage.


----------



## stillthinking

What you are experiencing (lack of satisfaction, intimacy, etc) seems to be backed up by data.



















You have indicated that you have had sex with many men. Apparently this does not bode well according to the numbers.

But there is hope. You do not have to end up as one of these statistics. Accept Gods forgiveness, confess you your husband, ask for his forgiveness, and proceed forward. No matter what happens at least you will be authentic.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> Yes but they are all in my church and I simply can't talk about this within my church. We moved here about a year ago from pretty far away. I hope this doesn't sound funny but at one point I went to another church (another Christian religion) to confession. It was burning in me and I decided to do that. Maybe in a way it could be seen as practice to confessing to my husband when that time is right.
> 
> Yes, being joined emotionally, spiritually and physically is a good way to put it. And kind of like being married in God's eyes. That's really heavy stuff when you think about it.


When do you think the time will be right? I think that there is no time better than the present.


----------



## BruceBanner

stillthinking said:


> What you are experiencing (lack of satisfaction, intimacy, etc) seems to be backed up by data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have indicated that you have had sex with many men. Apparently this does not bode well according to the numbers.
> 
> But there is hope. You do not have to end up as one of these statistics. Accept Gods forgiveness, confess you your husband, ask for his forgiveness, and proceed forward. No matter what happens at least you will be authentic.


I was just thinking about this. I'm surprised someone on this site had the balls to post this. :laugh:


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> The bolded part is simply not true.
> 
> Way back when, there used to be this completely unbiblical practice called self-flagellation. People would literally beat themselves bloody with whips.
> 
> We got rid of the whips, but some "Christians" believe we should still self-flagellate. Actually...THEY don't self-flagellate; they just encourage others to.
> 
> When Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more, he was telling her to stop her sin. He was also telling her to go. AND he didn't follow behind her reminding her of all the bad she had done - you know, just to keep her humble (insert vomit emoji here).
> 
> 
> If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. Have you repented to the ONLY ONE who can clean you? If yes, then you are clean.
> 
> Don't listen to anyone who tells you different, even in the church. They obviously lost huge chunks of their Bibles.


Agreed. The sad thing is that once we repent we are forgiven. The op is not forgiving herself. I think she will feel a lot better once she has told her husband.


----------



## sokillme

@JustTheWife you have been posting here for months. Why don't you tell your pastor or a counselor or someone and try to move forward in your marriage. You are just kind of wasting time when you could be working to fix this.


----------



## Diana7

BruceBanner said:


> I was just thinking about this. I'm surprised someone on this site had the balls to post this. :laugh:


In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


----------



## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


I'm not sure it messes you up as much as the mindset about sex changes. How could it not, if you think about it like just getting coffee with someone then what's the big deal if you get coffee with someone else besides your partner. After all it's just sex right?

I would also state what was the motives of the person having the sex, if they were using sex to fill a void the void doesn't go away when you just have sex with one person. 

If they were using sex as currency then once you get what you were paying for no need to spend any more money so to speak. 

Something all single people need to think about when they are trying to find a mate. It's not as simple as just having some fun.


----------



## Wolfman1968

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you. I'm not sure I agree with everything you are saying but you have an interesting view. I don't know why I like what I like but you may be right. Maybe it was because that's all that I really experienced. Sometimes I think that I always tried to live up to my first time which was really intense and totally perverted as you say. I mean that guy made me do everything and i just followed along. He got into my head and it was like total mind games. It was like a whole journey he took me on slowly bringing out my shame and taking everything until i had no more purity or dignity. Like he got into my soul. He was just a stranger but he changed me like nobody ever did.
> 
> That night changed me forever and how do you just forget it? Then it was one guy after anohter once that first guy took everything from me. All of this had a huge impact on me. I guess i'm supposed to just tell my husband that I slept with some other guys but it meant nothing. Or do I tell the truth and say that these experiences had more of an impact on me thatn just about anything else in my life including my religion ( so hard to say that but true)?



You know, I read your post here and have to wonder how much of this First Experience that "changed you like nobody ever did" plays into your sexual dissatisfaction with your husband.

Earlier in this thread, there were posters calling your husband "a dud in bed." It may well be that his sexual skill level may be below average, but given your reaction to your first sexual experience, is it possible that you have been affected so much that the majority of loving, committed guys who cared and treasured you would be suboptimal for you as well?


----------



## badsanta

Diana7 said:


> In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


The same is true for men that watch porn. You do not necessarily even need a physical partner to mess yourself up. Watching countless women perform countless acts intended for the male viewer's gratification drastically skews expectations and desires within a marriage. 

Given the statistics of how many men view porn and lie about it to their spouse, it is very important for the OP to understand exactly how common these statistics are and that people can and do work through these issues. 

Regards, 
Badsanta

I would advocate everyone look at the data and statistics provided by pornhub's year in review. It is rather eye opening on global sexual behaviors and trends. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtis...-statistical-proof-we-love-porn/#280968ec24f5


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


Perhaps it would be more convincing if a causal relationship was shown in all of these correlation studies. 

What is much more likely is that people who are likely to fail at marriage are also likely to have many sexual partners. Or to put it another way, doing everything you can to limit your sexual partners before marriage will have absolutely no bearing on your martial success, because it isn't the root cause.

If you know nothing else about statistics, know that correlation does not imply causation.


----------



## CharlieParker

Diana7 said:


> In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


My wife had a large number of partners (disclosed prior to marriage) and never cheated on any of them, or on me in 25+ years. She was a serial monogamist.


----------



## personofinterest

CharlieParker said:


> My wife had a large number of partners (disclosed prior to marriage) and never cheated on any of them, or on me in 25+ years. She was a serial monogamist.


I know stories like that as well. One of my best friends should have divorced and/or cheated by now - she was "loose," her parents' marriage was a train wreck, her dad was out of town all the time so she constantly sought out male attention - all the big boxes. She's been happily married for almost 30 years. And faithfully.

My other best friend has parents with a happy long term marriage, she was a virgin when she married at 25, etc. She was a serial cheater.

That said.....it would be denial to say that having a vast array of sexual partners has no affect on a woman. It does. I think it does on men too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> In many ways its pretty understandable that this is the case and its good to see it backed by statistics. I also read recently that people who have had many sexually partners are more likely to cheat, that's easy to understand as well. The more partners you have, the more it messes you up.


Re your statement "The more partners you have, the more it messes you up".....

That's actually not a blanket true statement and there would need to be multiple double blind multi year experiments showing numbers, before many, many folks would believe whatever the "messed up" number actually would be.

It's also possible whoever wrote the statistics you're referring to had/has an agenda.

There are also examples of when an SO / both SOs had only one partner, their spouse, they are likely to cheat, rationalizing their cheating so they can "see what sex is like with others".

Some of those examples are here on TAM.....


----------



## CharlieParker

personofinterest said:


> That said.....it would be denial to say that having a vast array of sexual partners has no affect on a woman. It does.


I agree, and it was a positive.


----------



## Cletus

CharlieParker said:


> I agree, and it was a positive.


Yes, and I can attest to the effect of having limited sexual partners. It was NOT positive, for the study group sample size of n=1.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Knips

Female promiscuity is something that can happen without concequenses in modern times. But imagine in early times (no condom, no pill...). Woman would have the risk to get 
pregnant without having a partner. Such woman ( and their child) would not have a large chance of survival. Because this has been biologically baked in our system man don't like woman who have been promiscious. Because promiscious woman tend to have less chance to get old. Also imagine that in early times woman who are promuscious had a larger chance to carry a STD and therefore man would prefer a partner without such a past. You should ask a serious man (not some player who likes to f**k around) if he can choose between 1 girl of an identical looking twin. The one had 40 + sex partners since her 14, and the other had only a few in a comitted relationship. I wouldn't think twice and would choose for the one with only a few sex partners. Myself i see sex as a ultimate love act between 2 people and therefore i haven't got many sexual partners. If my wife would tell me some day she had a lot of casual and meaningless sex in the past. Then i would dump her because i cannot life with a woman that has such low morals that differs from mine. No matter how she says she has changed. I cannot stand the tought that my loving wife is freely thinking about her meaningless sex partners while on my side i am performing the ultimate love act with my wife. I know that many of you will judge me for what i have written, but this is who i am. Being a good, loyal husband and father who loves his wife and kids, and having a healty and exciting sex life with his wife.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Knips said:


> *Female promiscuity is something that can happen without concequenses in modern times.* But imagine in early times (no condom, no pill...). Woman would have the risk to get
> pregnant without having a partner. Such woman ( and their child) would not have a large chance of survival. Because this has been biologically baked in our system man don't like woman who have been promiscious. Because promiscious woman tend to have less chance to get old. Also imagine that in early times woman who are promuscious had a larger chance to carry a STD and therefore man would prefer a partner without such a past. You should ask a serious man (not some player who likes to f**k around) if he can choose between 1 girl of an identical looking twin. The one had 40 + sex partners since her 14, and the other had only a few in a comitted relationship. I wouldn't think twice and would choose for the one with only a few sex partners. Myself i see sex as a ultimate love act between 2 people and therefore i haven't got many sexual partners. If my wife would tell me some day she had a lot of casual and meaningless sex in the past. Then i would dump her because i cannot life with a woman that has such low morals that differs from mine. No matter how she says she has changed. I cannot stand the tought that my loving wife is freely thinking about her meaningless sex partners while on my side i am performing the ultimate love act with my wife. I know that many of you will judge me for what i have written, but this is who i am. Being a good, loyal husband and father who loves his wife and kids, and having a healty and exciting sex life with his wife.


Really? 


How do you really feel? :grin2:


----------



## 2ntnuf

badsanta said:


> The same is true for men that watch porn. You do not necessarily even need a physical partner to mess yourself up. Watching countless *women perform countless acts intended for the male viewer's gratification drastically skews expectations and desires within a marriage.*
> 
> Given the statistics of how many men view porn and lie about it to their spouse, it is very important for the OP to understand exactly how common these statistics are and that people can and do work through these issues.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta
> 
> I would advocate everyone look at the data and statistics provided by pornhub's year in review. It is rather eye opening on global sexual behaviors and trends.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtis...-statistical-proof-we-love-porn/#280968ec24f5


I think the issue is that men who expect their wives to do similarly, believe their wives were doing some of these things while single and being promiscuous. How else did they learn to perform such similar maneuvers with confidence and proficiency? It seems the real issue is these women have been there and done that. They aren't interested in trying those things with the inexperienced man they chose to marry who wants to explore. 


It's like setting a juicy steak before a wolf and keeping the leash just short enough it can't reach it. It can also be used as a type of carrot to make the poor husband believe he has a chance of getting some of that, but he must do this or that to be allowed, while nearly always falling short of expected goals. 


I don't see how it's an advantage for anyone incompatible in that arena. Most of the posts lauding promiscuity are simply marketing ploys to attract the men of weak character.


----------



## CharlieParker

2ntnuf said:


> I think the issue is that men who expect their wives to do similarly, believe their wives were doing some of these things while single and being promiscuous. How else did they learn to perform such similar maneuvers with confidence and proficiency? It seems the real issue is these women have been there and done that. They aren't interested in trying those things with the inexperienced man they chose to marry who wants to explore.


There is a thread for that. But I don’t find it to be “the real issue” and I have real world experience. 




2ntnuf said:


> I don't see how *it's* an advantage for anyone incompatible in *that* arena. Most of the posts lauding promiscuity are simply marketing ploys to attract the men of weak character.


What? I’m not following.


----------



## 2ntnuf

CharlieParker said:


> There is a thread for that. But I don’t find it to be “the real issue” and I have real world experience.
> 
> 
> 
> *What? I’m not following*.



That's because my post doesn't suit you. 

All the troubles you've had with sex and you don't understand? Shame on you. Why lie to all of us?


----------



## CharlieParker

2ntnuf said:


> That's because my post doesn't suit you.
> 
> All the troubles you've had with sex and you don't understand? Shame on you. Why lie to all of us?


Thanks for trying to clarify.


----------



## 2ntnuf

CharlieParker said:


> Thanks for trying to clarify.


What is your issue, Charlie? What is it you don't understand about lying?


----------



## CharlieParker

2ntnuf said:


> What is your issue, Charlie? What is it you don't understand about lying?


Gotcha now, and agree. I honestly didn’t initially get the lying slant from your initial post, maybe not enough coffee.


----------



## Blaine

Well, I guess I'm gonna be the odd man out. Most posters have made very good points about ur situation but I think there is something missing. Yes he may not be able to handle it or maybe he considers marriage an unbreakable bond and stays but either way, it would destroy him. At first, you were just friends and it really was none of his business, fair but at some point, you became more and even joined in an agreement to remain virgins until marriage. (technically this was fraud) I'm not sure at what point in ur relationship you stopped having sex with other men but Have you considered how he may have acted if he knew you were not a virgin? Did he turn down sex with anyone to remain a virgin for you? And now ur telling him that was for naught? What if you got to the talk of being virgins and you had come clean and he said he loved u and it didn't matter but he wanted to sleep with someone so he wouldn't be "dumb" on the wedding night. Would that have been ok with u or would it have bothered u? If you tell him, he will no longer trust u about anything including anything else you have told him in the past or even ur love for him. It may be enough to end the marriage. He will then doubt himself in every way. If his ego, confidence or self-assurance is any part of what u love about him that will be gone. If there is anything good or virtuous about him that you like that may be gone. Afterall his reward for holding fast to his ideals is to be lied to. He may doubt all women or all people going forward. Of course, if you tell him he may wipe his brow and exclaim "whew" I have been pretending for years. I normally tell people if there is a lie that you have told that you then feel guilty about let ur silence be ur penance. Afterall should ur feeling better about coming clean cost someone else their peace of mind?


----------



## 2ntnuf

CharlieParker said:


> Gotcha now, and agree. I honestly didn’t initially get the lying slant from your initial post, maybe not enough coffee.


Lying about sexual past is another way of lying. Lying is generally harmful within a close relationship, though not always. It hurts most when spouses find out they were lied to, and that's a big issue in this thread. 

No one knows what anyone else did in their past, until it is revealed. Sometimes, it is never revealed. 

It would likely bother an inexperienced spouse, when they are male, more than a female. Why? Different reasons for each, but worthy of consideration before marriage. 

Compatibility is always best. Sexual incompatibility can and does, many times, lead to unfaithful and adulterous spouses. Either might be unfaithful for seemingly opposite reasons. From what I know, men would not like a more promiscuous spouse, but they want her to be open to all kinds of things. That isn't really fair to women. Either she has a promiscuous past and is good in bed from experiences, or she is not and that has to be explored within marriage.

It seems men want their cake and eat it, too. I have probably been one of those men who wanted a lady in public and a "*****" in bed, at one time or another when I was younger, but I was never promiscuous. I'm not proud of placing that burden on any woman. 

What about when she has a good deal of skill and experience and she doesn't or can't use it for fear of being discovered? Isn't that hurting both husband and wife? It seems even more concerning and confusing. 

Truth seems a better option, even if it hurts. If folks actually, still, after all these years of sexual liberation, feel like they don't want to marry someone who has experience, there must be a reason besides social constructs and the typical answer of men demeaning women to control them or some such reasons. I don't know what that or those reasons are, though. 

I do know, marriages work best when the two are compatible. I guess that means women and men must look at their past sexual experience when considering a marriage. What is even more puzzling is why both men and women don't consider sexual compatibility, in the area of sexual experience, extremely important? They want something they think they can't have, is my guess. We all want the one we can't have or that thing. It's pretty normal for humans. 

So, sexual past is vitally important.

And, yes Charlie, I was married to a woman who had a great deal more sexual experience and partners than I have. She added quite a few more after she split from me. She had more than most of the other girls in high school. She did things I've only thought about and not discussed or explored because I figured they could not be good for a marriage. I would not try them with anyone when I was single, since I felt creepy when I had the chance to do a few of them. 

Yes, I know I am one of few men who would turn down these things which I've read here many times are in the, "I need to do this with my wife. Can you folks help me convince her to leave morals, I found attractive in her when we married, behind", category.

Sorry for all the edits. It took some time to get my thoughts and reasons into words that were reasonably clear. I kept rereading and realizing I was not opening up enough for you to understand what I'm thinking.


----------



## Knips

Blaine said:


> Well, I guess I'm gonna be the odd man out. Most posters have made very good points about ur situation but I think there is something missing. Yes he may not be able to handle it or maybe he considers marriage an unbreakable bond and stays but either way, it would destroy him. At first, you were just friends and it really was none of his business, fair but at some point, you became more and even joined in an agreement to remain virgins until marriage. (technically this was fraud) I'm not sure at what point in ur relationship you stopped having sex with other men but Have you considered how he may have acted if he knew you were not a virgin? Did he turn down sex with anyone to remain a virgin for you? And now ur telling him that was for naught? What if you got to the talk of being virgins and you had come clean and he said he loved u and it didn't matter but he wanted to sleep with someone so he wouldn't be "dumb" on the wedding night. Would that have been ok with u or would it have bothered u? If you tell him, he will no longer trust u about anything including anything else you have told him in the past or even ur love for him. It may be enough to end the marriage. He will then doubt himself in every way. If his ego, confidence or self-assurance is any part of what u love about him that will be gone. If there is anything good or virtuous about him that you like that may be gone. Afterall his reward for holding fast to his ideals is to be lied to. He may doubt all women or all people going forward. Of course, if you tell him he may wipe his brow and exclaim "whew" I have been pretending for years. I normally tell people if there is a lie that you have told that you then feel guilty about let ur silence be ur penance. Afterall should ur feeling better about coming clean cost someone else their peace of mind?


 I follow you. OP telling you're husband that whole of the marriage is based on a lie would hurt him a lot. you are free from guilt and hubby will have a lot of pain. If i was hubby i would divorce immediately.


----------



## CharlieParker

2ntnuf said:


> Sorry for all the edits. It took some time to get my thoughts and reasons into words that were reasonably clear. I kept rereading and realizing I was not opening up enough for you to understand what I'm thinking.


Thanks.


----------



## JustTheWife

Knips said:


> I follow you. OP telling you're husband that whole of the marriage is based on a lie would hurt him a lot. you are free from guilt and hubby will have a lot of pain. If i was hubby i would divorce immediately.


He'd hate me if he knew. I don't know about divorce. He's pretty high up in the church now and divorce would not look good at all. Now I have to pretend even more to be the perfect wife. The church loves him but I can tell they don't like me so much. I always feel like a fraud at church.


----------



## jsmart

sokillme said:


> *To have good sex you have to be honest*. If you never had sex with someone else like you have lead him to believe you would not feel such shame and you probably would have been able to communicate your needs better. You both would have been learning your needs as you learned about sex together. Now you can't say anything as you already have needs of an the experienced person and to say what you need would be giving away your secret.


This is the issue right here. You not only had sex already but it sounds like you were wanton. Nothing wrong with that, except, that you lied about who you were. You know how important it was to your husband. That is some serious fraud.

If you married him thinking that he was wealthy but later it came out that he was an unemployed bum that had access to a friends fancy cars and beach front house, wouldn't you be upset. 

You're basically an Alpha widow. You've experienced things that your beta husband doesn't have in him to give you. Could he eventually learn? Maybe, but I think a guy like that is going to be too ashamed to let you teach him. Besides you, like most women, don't seem to have a desire to teach an inexperience lover. 

Only thing I would suggest is to spill all of truth and tell him "let's get a _Christian_ sex counselor to help us with this" Short of this, a divorce imminent. If D is the road you go down, be gentle with him. Your lying caused this, don't damage him any further than you already have.


----------



## badsanta

2ntnuf said:


> I think the issue is that men who expect their wives to do similarly...



I wrote that post specifically for the OP in this context... Diana7 insinuated that when a woman is promiscuous with a lot of partners that she is "messed up." I wanted to level the playing field and state that we are all messed up!

In reality I don't think anyone is messed up, but in the way I put it the OP would not feel alone and Diana7 would not be able to argue against that. 

Regards,
Badsanta


----------



## [email protected]

Just, a guy named Jesus once said that yes should be yes and no should be no. He meant that a Christian should not lie nor compromise the truth. No matter what, you must bring your concern out in the open.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> He'd hate me if he knew. I don't know about divorce. He's pretty high up in the church now and divorce would not look good at all. Now I have to pretend even more to be the perfect wife. The church loves him but I can tell they don't like me so much. I always feel like a fraud at church.


You feel a fraud because of the lies and deception. You know what you need to do but you refuse to do it. You know that God says not to lie. Nothing will get better unless you do the right thing. Just do it. Contrary to what some here have said, he deserves to know.


----------



## BruceBanner

Eighty pages and OP still hasn't told her husband? Why is this thread even still open? It feels like you guys are just going in circles. I've just realized that it's almost been seven months since the thread was created. If she can't be persuaded to tell the truth after this long then she's likely never going to tell the truth.


----------



## Diana7

BruceBanner said:


> Eighty pages and OP still hasn't told her husband? Why is this thread even still open? It feels like you guys are just going in circles. I've just realized that it's almost been seven months since the thread was created. If she can't be persuaded to tell the truth after this long then she's likely never going to tell the truth.


Sadly I agree with you and that very sad. Things will never change until she tells him. I hope she has the guts to do it.


----------



## Knips

Or worse. If the OP had so many sex contacts it is likely that the truth will come out one day. For example. One of her previous lovers walks by in the street and recognizes her. saying hi and poking a bit joking with his elbow to hubby and saying: Oh you are married to OP she is a hell of a beast is the sack wink wink . I can imagine the red cheeks from OP and the fear and question marks in the eye from hubby.


----------



## Fazz

JustTheWife said:


> I've been raised very religious and my husband is also very religious. He has not been sexual with anyone else at all.
> 
> For part of my life I secretly rebelled by having a lot of casual sex with lots of guys. It was like a double life. I was friends with my husband before we started dating and we went to church together, talked about morals, religion, etc. I didn't want him to think bad of me so I told him that I was a virgin and never did anything at all. We were just friends at that point and I just wanted to keep it my secret. Well as we started dating it became a bigger lie as we were "both waiting" and how special that was. Then when we got married it became even worse.
> 
> Sometimes I think it's not a big deal and guys just don't want to know the truth anyway and he can't handle it. I also think that the past is just the past and it doesn't matter any more as I've read people say many times. I got tested so whats the harm and what he doesn't know can't hurt him.
> 
> But sometimes i feel SO guilty about it. I can't tell him and why should I ruin my marriage over something that is in the past. A long time ago I decided to just keep it a deep dark secret and I think i need to just stay the course with that but it's so hard sometimes with this inside of me.
> 
> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you? Please help.


That's a tough situation, and unfortunately, you've made the situation more difficult by building more lies on top of one another. It seems like you already know what the answer to your question is and you are looking for some form of validation, however the longer you leave it the more difficult it will become and the larger the implications. 

Consider taking some time to reflect on the implications of the lies thus far and their implications for the future, and then reflect on the implications of coming clean with your husband. He will most likely feel very betrayed and upset, and this could cause major challenges for your marriage, however, if he was to find out down the track on his own, then you could be facing much greater problems.

That being said, we have all made mistakes in life so no judgment on my behalf in any way about your choices and actions. The fact that you are considering coming clean with your husband is a great sign that you already know what the right decision may be


----------



## syhoybenden

JustTheWife said:


> The church loves him but I can tell they don't like me so much. I always feel like a fraud at church.


Perhaps you should consider that your secrets are not quite so secret as you would like them to be.

If so, and if you feel there may be a little nudge-nudge wink-wink going on about you then the window of time for you to come clean to your husband before he finds out from someone else may be closing.

Better he hears it from you than from somebody else.


----------



## TJW

JustTheWife said:


> I always feel like a fraud at church.


This is so unfortunate. All of us, every last one of us, comes to our Lord with our brokenness, our sin, our rebellion, our mistakes. None. None of us have anything to offer Him. When we go to church, it is only to receive from Him. Our Lord loves us in spite of our pasts, in spite of our present, too.

If you come to our Lord with admission of your sin, and a desire to turn away from it, and walk by His help in the path He leads, then there is no "fraud".



syhoybenden said:


> a little nudge-nudge wink-wink


Your husband has a sharp intellect. This is in evidence by the church's recognition. Even if there are no nudges, and no winks, your husband is going to figure this out. That is, if he hasn't already.



JustTheWife said:


> Do any of you struggle with this or just keep a lie like this without it bothering you?


All of us who have submitted to God's Holy Spirit would find it very hard to "keep" a lie like this. It would indeed bother us. And, we are thankful that it does, because it means that God has not "given up" on us. The struggle would be quite real on the inside of us.


----------



## JustTheWife

syhoybenden said:


> Perhaps you should consider that your secrets are not quite so secret as you would like them to be.
> 
> If so, and if you feel there may be a little nudge-nudge wink-wink going on about you then the window of time for you to come clean to your husband before he finds out from someone else may be closing.
> 
> Better he hears it from you than from somebody else.


I don't think anyone at church knows. We moved here after we were married and are pretty far from home. I know that they talk about me behind my back but it's not for my sexual past. I'm quiet and like to keep to myself. They are super friendly but in kind of a fake sort of way. They have their little cliques and I don't fit in with anyone. I think they tried hard to like me because of my husband but they sort of gave up but since he got more power at the church, they seem to be trying again. 

A couple of things happened. One of the husbands started flirting with me and I could tell his wife was pissed. It wasn't my fault at all. I am not even attracted to that guy. And the other thing is that they know that i had been drinking at at least one church thing. One women took me aside and warned me to "watch myself". It wasn't like I was falling over drunk or anything but i guess she could tell.


----------



## 2ntnuf

badsanta said:


> I wrote that post specifically for the OP in this context... Diana7 insinuated that when a woman is promiscuous with a lot of partners that she is "messed up." I wanted to level the playing field and state that we are all messed up!
> 
> In reality I don't think anyone is messed up, but in the way I put it the OP would not feel alone and Diana7 would not be able to argue against that.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Messed up? Meh, depends on the level we are talking, I think. Regular promiscuity is just a facet of some folks lives. It's not a big deal to me. What does bother me is when one spouse has more experience, and I mean way more, than the other. It isn't really fair to the less experienced. It ends not being fair to the experienced one, too, because he or she can't get what they want without making the spouse do some things against their boundaries, morals, ethics or whatever they are called today. 

I have a good friend, a woman, who is promiscuous. I don't date her or sleep with her. I do respect her for other things. We don't talk about sex.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

2ntnuf said:


> Messed up? Meh, depends on the level we are talking, I think. Regular promiscuity is just a facet of some folks lives. It's not a big deal to me. What does bother me is when one spouse has more experience, and I mean way more, than the other. It isn't really fair to the less experienced. It ends not being fair to the experienced one, too, because he or she *can't get what they want without making the spouse do some things against their boundaries, morals, ethics or whatever they are called today.*
> 
> I have a good friend, a woman, who is promiscuous. I don't date her or sleep with her. I do respect her for other things. We don't talk about sex.


A gulf in experience levels doesn't necessarily mean a gulf in boundaries or morals. That does seem to be the case for the OP in this thread, but it is hardly universal. Plenty of folks on this site have entered their marriages with mismatched levels of experience and done just fine. No union is a perfect fit and we all have some differences we must learn to live with.


----------



## CharlieParker

2ntnuf said:


> What does bother me is when one spouse has more experience, and I mean way more, than the other. It isn't really fair to the less experienced. It ends not being fair to the experienced one,


Not trying to pick on you, sounds like we may have had very different experiences, and sorry if yours were painful. My wife was more experienced, way more, and it didn’t turn out to be unfair to me. Unfair to her, not exactly, but she said she wouldn’t have given my a chance had she known about my inexperience (I lied by omission, it’s all good now). 



2ntnuf said:


> because he or she can't get what they want without making the spouse do some things against their boundaries, morals, ethics or whatever they are called today.


While being very experienced, she was also very vanilla. And open and upfront about both.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> A gulf in experience levels doesn't necessarily mean a gulf in boundaries or morals. That does seem to be the case for the OP in this thread, but it is hardly universal. Plenty of folks on this site have entered their marriages with mismatched levels of experience and done just fine. No union is a perfect fit and we all have some differences we must learn to live with.


I feel like you are greatly minimizing. Some folks do have boundaries when it comes to sex acts and number of partners. These are sometimes because they think some things are immoral. I'm not judging. I'm just saying we don't all have to be the same. It's not wrong to be different. Those differences are what make each of us unique. Acceptance is better than struggling to force the one we love to do things they don't want.


----------



## 2ntnuf

CharlieParker said:


> Not trying to pick on you, sounds like we may have had very different experiences, and sorry if yours were painful. My wife was more experienced, way more, and it didn’t turn out to be unfair to me. Unfair to her, not exactly, but she said she wouldn’t have given my a chance had she known about my inexperience (I lied by omission, it’s all good now).
> 
> 
> 
> While being very experienced, she was also very vanilla. And open and upfront about both.


You are right. We had different experiences. It was wrong for you to lie by omission to keep her. It really wasn't fair to her. Thank goodness you were able to find someone who is vanilla.

I did not lie to my second fiancé.


----------



## Mr.Married

Lying about sexual past - is it harmless?

I don't blame the ladies on this one. The site shows over and over that many men out there just can't handle it if she has a lot of experience compared to him.
Is it justifiable for the ladies to do it....I don't know. The answer is both yes and no.

The tough part is when she has to live with the constant expectation that she has to somehow undo her past


----------



## badsanta

2ntnuf said:


> Messed up? Meh, depends on the level we are talking, I think. Regular promiscuity is just a facet of some folks lives. It's not a big deal to me. What does bother me is when one spouse has more experience, and I mean way more, than the other. It isn't really fair to the less experienced. It ends not being fair to the experienced one, too, because he or she can't get what they want without making the spouse do some things against their boundaries, morals, ethics or whatever they are called today.
> 
> I have a good friend, a woman, who is promiscuous. I don't date her or sleep with her. I do respect her for other things. We don't talk about sex.


From another point of view I have heard women with varying sexual pasts describing what it is like to relate having an active lifestyle and then settling down to a monogamous marriage. They often describe it as if having driven a wide variety of sports cars and then settling for just a modest family van and later discover that you actually have to warm up the engine before racing out the driveway to go somewhere.


----------



## StillSearching

Mr.Married said:


> Lying about sexual past - *is it harmless?*
> 
> I don't blame the ladies on this one. The site shows over and over that many men out there just can't handle it if she has a lot of experience compared to him.
> Is it justifiable for the ladies to do it....I don't know. The answer is both yes and no.
> 
> The tough part is when she has to live with the constant expectation that she has to somehow undo her past


Lies are never harmless.
They hurt the one who lies more than anyone else.
You can't trust yourself with important decisions.


----------



## Mr.Married

StillSearching said:


> Lies are never harmless.
> They hurt the one who lies more than anyone else.
> You can't trust yourself with important decisions.


I can understand your meaning...but the area can be so grey. Given the nature of insecurity sometimes it may be that they are both being protected.
I completely agree there should be no lies in marriage, but I can see how this one may go untold.


----------



## JustTheWife

Mr.Married said:


> Lying about sexual past - is it harmless?
> 
> I don't blame the ladies on this one. The site shows over and over that many men out there just can't handle it if she has a lot of experience compared to him.
> Is it justifiable for the ladies to do it....I don't know. The answer is both yes and no.
> 
> The tough part is when she has to live with the constant expectation that she has to somehow undo her past


I've read a lot of different forums on this topic and yes, it seems like many men can't handle knowing the truth about their wives or girlfriends. I'm not using this as an excuse to lie but you also can't ignore this point. On different forums it seems that many guys just prefer not to know. But at the same time, I think that many can't stand not knowing. It's weird and who knows what guys want. It also seems like guys change their thinking on it.

They always say that what you don't know can't hurt you and maybe that's the case with things like this? The images might be forever burned in his head and he won't even be able to look at me without thinking about it.


----------



## JustTheWife

badsanta said:


> From another point of view I have heard women with varying sexual pasts describing what it is like to relate having an active lifestyle and then settling down to a monogamous marriage. They often describe it as if having driven a wide variety of sports cars and then settling for just a modest family van and later discover that you actually have to warm up the engine before racing out the driveway to go somewhere.


I don't think of it as having driven sports cars. Along those lines maybe it was like the car parkers in Ferris Bueller's day off. They really worked the car over but the guys had no idea what the car had been through or all of the fun that the parking guys had with the car.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I've read a lot of different forums on this topic and yes, it seems like many men can't handle knowing the truth about their wives or girlfriends. I'm not using this as an excuse to lie but you also can't ignore this point. On different forums it seems that many guys just prefer not to know. But at the same time, I think that many can't stand not knowing. It's weird and who knows what guys want. It also seems like guys change their thinking on it.
> 
> They always say that what you don't know can't hurt you and maybe that's the case with things like this? The images might be forever burned in his head and he won't even be able to look at me without thinking about it.


In your case its not about whether he can handle it or not, its that you told him you were a virgin and he remained a virgin because he feels its very important. Reading all this stuff on forums is pointless and wont change the fact that you need to tell him. If you are serious about your faith, then what God says is all that matters, and He says not to lie and deceive. So why are you still doing it?
So you either carry on lying and deceiving and remain miserable and burdened, or you do what God says to do and tell him. God has ways of bringing things to the light an I think He will do this if you don't. 

I am not surprised that you feel you dont fit in at church with all the shame and worry about all this.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> A gulf in experience levels doesn't necessarily mean a gulf in boundaries or morals. That does seem to be the case for the OP in this thread, but it is hardly universal. Plenty of folks on this site have entered their marriages with mismatched levels of experience and done just fine. No union is a perfect fit and we all have some differences we must learn to live with.


How would you have got that experience if you had strong moral values? 
If one has had many partners and the others none or few, then to me that shows that their values are very different.

I guess that for me I wouldn't ever be interested in a man who had had multiple partners. Not just because of the many partners, but because it would show me that he sees sex in a very different way than I do.It would also show that he has little self control and respect for women.


----------



## Diana7

badsanta said:


> From another point of view I have heard women with varying sexual pasts describing what it is like to relate having an active lifestyle and then settling down to a monogamous marriage. They often describe it as if having driven a wide variety of sports cars and then settling for just a modest family van and later discover that you actually have to warm up the engine before racing out the driveway to go somewhere.


For many though, sex in marriage with someone you love and are committed to far far suppases casual sex with men you barely know. Sex in marriage is the sports car. The others are old bangers.


----------



## CharlieParker

Diana7 said:


> How would you have got that experience if you had strong moral values?


You view promiscuity as immoral? I viewed my wife’s past promiscuity as a positive. Of course she disclosed it before marriage, no idea how I’d react if it had come out later.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

My wife had more sexual experience than me. I do think she omitted some details about an encounter from her past that I asked about many years ago. I assume she was protecting herself because I have no doubt that my motive was not for any worthwhile information but to shame her for her promiscuity due to my own insecurities. In this instance, the only harm was the way I treated her for being more successful at the same thing I was trying to do. Eventually, I grew up and let go of all that nonsense.


----------



## jsmart

JustTheWife said:


> A couple of things happened. *One of the husbands started flirting with me and I could tell his wife was pissed.* It wasn't my fault at all. I am not even attracted to that guy. And the other thing is that they know that i had been drinking at at least one church thing. One women took me aside and warned me to "watch myself". *It wasn't like I was falling over drunk or anything but i guess she could tell*.


You may not realize it but you're probably giving off a sexual vibe. With you explaining about how sexually frustrated you are, I suggest you check yourself. It's not something a person will feel comfortable telling you.



JustTheWife said:


> I don't think of it as having driven sports cars. Along those lines maybe it was like the car parkers in Ferris Bueller's day off. *They really worked the car over but the guys had no idea what the car had been through or all of the fun that the parking guys had with the car*.


This comment tells me that you not only had more sex partners but that you've had partners that got buck wild with you and you loved it and want more of it. 

Which is cool, if you're with a husband that knew what he was getting. But you led him to believe he was getting a spanking brand new car but it turns out he got a car that's been driven hard and put away wet many times but was nicely detailed and the check engine light was disabled to hide the abuse. Except now there's blue smoke of your sexual frustration coming out the exhaust. 

Sad part is the writing is on the wall. Your husband will soon be crushed by your truth and or by your betrayal if you try to suppress the truth and your feelings.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> How would you have got that experience if you had strong moral values?
> If one has had many partners and the others none or few, then to me that shows that their values are very different.
> 
> I guess that for me I wouldn't ever be interested in a man who had had multiple partners. Not just because of the many partners, but because it would show me that he sees sex in a very different way than I do.It would also show that he has little self control and respect for women.


People grow and their morals evolve. If I'm convinced those morals are in sync with mine at this time, I'm not going to hold them in contempt for what they did in the past. 

Even if we set aside the idea that "strong morals" mean different things to different people, and agree on a strict biblical interpretation of what constitutes strong morals, we're still left with a critical issue:
How many people have come to the church after past promiscuity? Quite a few I'm sure. Do we then condemn them to a life of singlehood and celibacy, or do we allow them to enjoy the sex act as God intended within the confines of marriage in the coupling of two who have become one? Do you not always say that if two people truly love each other, and they truly and faithfully put each other (and God) at the center of their union, that everything will work out? I gotta' think that if we really believe that, then a repentant sinner may still find a glorious and righteous union with someone who walked in the word from day one.


----------



## TJW

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Do you not always say that if two people truly love each other, and they truly and faithfully put each other (and God) at the center of their union, that everything will work out? I gotta' think that if we really believe that, then a repentant sinner may still find a glorious and righteous union with someone who walked in the word from day one.


I, for one, do believe that. I have seen God's power in my own life, the radical changes He made in me through His love and His forgiveness. I fully understand that He can make these changes, and even greater changes, in anyone who will come to Him trusting and obeying.

With God at the center, two people who truly love each other, and who faithfully put each other second only to God, a blessed and fruitful marriage will be theirs.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> How many people have come to the church after past promiscuity?


The number is countless. All of those who have come, trusting God for their ultimate satisfaction, have found it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

badsanta said:


> From another point of view I have heard women with varying sexual pasts describing what it is like to relate having an active lifestyle and then settling down to a monogamous marriage. They often describe it as if having driven a wide variety of sports cars and then settling for just a modest family van and later discover that you actually have to warm up the engine before racing out the driveway to go somewhere.


The hazards of learning all about sex with someone other than your spouse. Just have to pick someone who revs the engine, but many don't.


----------



## Idyit

Lying about _____________ past - is it harmless?

Fill in the blank with:
Marital - divorce
Bankruptcy
Civil conviction
Felony (?)
Domestic abuse
DUI
Work history
Drug use
Alcoholism
Education
Etc..

Which of these would elicit the same lame ass excuses consistently offered here?


----------



## [email protected]

It might help if Just were to reveal what denomination she attends. Some are condemning and others aren't. Perhaps she could confide in her priest or pastor about her past. In any event, she needs to inform her husband that he married a human being. We humans tend to screw things up a lot.


----------



## Diana7

CharlieParker said:


> You view promiscuity as immoral? I viewed my wife’s past promiscuity as a positive. Of course she disclosed it before marriage, no idea how I’d react if it had come out later.


Yes of course.


----------



## Diana7

[email protected] said:


> It might help if Just were to reveal what denomination she attends. Some are condemning and others aren't. Perhaps she could confide in her priest or pastor about her past. In any event, she needs to inform her husband that he married a human being. We humans tend to screw things up a lot.


 Yes we all know that, but its the lies and deception that is wrong here.


----------



## badsanta

Diana7 said:


> For many though, sex in marriage with someone you love and are committed to far far suppases casual sex with men you barely know. Sex in marriage is the sports car. The others are old bangers.


Sports cars are about adrenaline. Many folks like to mix adrenaline and sex together. Once you are married to someone and are extremely comfortable being yourself, lovemaking does not generally involve adrenaline or any since of taking a risk... It can, but you have to warm up the engines first and try something a little different like joining the mile-high club with your spouse. 

Instead of a sports car, sex in a loving marriage is more like sailing on a luxury yacht. You can go to all sorts of intimate destinations that are not reachable via car and you can completely relax while riding through huge swells and waves of ecstasy. 

Your need to criticize others makes me worry that you are projecting something in your own life onto others? Otherwise you would not need to be so critical of others and so defensive of a conservative/traditional marriage. Perhaps you could help others more by first admitting some of your own faults. I know I am not perfect and that in real life I annoy people, including my own wife a lot of the time...

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## Blaine

Diana7 said:


> In your case its not about whether he can handle it or not, its that you told him you were a virgin and he remained a virgin because he feels its very important. Reading all this stuff on forums is pointless and wont change the fact that you need to tell him. If you are serious about your faith, then what God says is all that matters, and He says not to lie and deceive. So why are you still doing it?
> So you either carry on lying and deceiving and remain miserable and burdened, or you do what God says to do and tell him. God has ways of bringing things to the light an I think He will do this if you don't.
> 
> I am not surprised that you feel you dont fit in at church with all the shame and worry about all this.


But Diana7 what if telling him does him "harm" what if he cant handle it? I have seen lots of people confess and feel so good about getting it off of their chest only to see the person they "love" destroyed.


----------



## Diana7

badsanta said:


> Sports cars are about adrenaline. Many folks like to mix adrenaline and sex together. Once you are married to someone and are extremely comfortable being yourself, lovemaking does not generally involve adrenaline or any since of taking a risk... It can, but you have to warm up the engines first and try something a little different like joining the mile-high club with your spouse.
> 
> Instead of a sports car, sex in a loving marriage is more like sailing on a luxury yacht. You can go to all sorts of intimate destinations that are not reachable via car and you can completely relax while riding through huge swells and waves of ecstasy.
> 
> Your need to criticize others makes me worry that you are projecting something in your own life onto others? Otherwise you would not need to be so critical of others and so defensive of a conservative/traditional marriage. Perhaps you could help others more by first admitting some of your own faults. I know I am not perfect and that in real life I annoy people, including my own wife a lot of the time...
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Not criticising others at all, just stating that sex in marriage is the best. I just get sad at how many people see sex as so casual and shallow. Sex without love and commitment is nothing. Sex with someone you barely know is pointless and meaningless. 
Never said I was perfect but I thought we were discussing the op's situation which concerns sex before marriage and lies and deception.


----------



## Diana7

Blaine said:


> But Diana7 what if telling him does him "harm" what if he cant handle it? I have seen lots of people confess and feel so good about getting it off of their chest only to see the person they "love" destroyed.


Yes he will handle it, and whatever effect it has he deserves to know and make a decision as to whether to carry on the marriage or not. In his place I would definitely want to know, lies have no place in marriage. 
I think that some would use what you said as an excuse not to tell. He won't be destroyed, many here have faced far worse and got through it and he will do the same.


----------



## Blaine

I do agree with you and the truth should have been out a long time ago but depending on the type of guy some will be destroyed and THEN use that as an excuse to hurt others such as the next relationship. But I dont have to live with the consequences.


----------



## 269370

JustTheWife said:


> I've read a lot of different forums on this topic and yes, it seems like many men can't handle knowing the truth about their wives or girlfriends. I'm not using this as an excuse to lie but you also can't ignore this point. On different forums it seems that many guys just prefer not to know. But at the same time, I think that many can't stand not knowing. It's weird and who knows what guys want. It also seems like guys change their thinking on it.
> 
> 
> 
> They always say that what you don't know can't hurt you and maybe that's the case with things like this? The images might be forever burned in his head and he won't even be able to look at me without thinking about it.




You are confusing cheating with sexual past: some guys, yes, get completely obsessed about wanting to know every single detail when their wife cheated. It’s as if it gives them back some form of control. It’s completely pointless. It happens. You either forgive or move on.
Sexual past: shouldn’t be anyone’s business.

Easy for me to say as both of us were virgins. But if my wife ****ed a lot of guys and was wh0ring around a bit before we met (I mean it in an endearing way), I would just accept her for who she is at the time when I met her. I would prefer if she didn’t hide stuff too much from me but if she felt uncomfortable talking about it, I would just leave it. 
She probably would be better at blowjobs! (Though she is pretty amazingly good already).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PigglyWiggly

Diana7 said:


> Not criticising others at all, just stating that sex in marriage is the best. I just get sad at how many people see sex as so casual and shallow. Sex without love and commitment is nothing. Sex with someone you barely know is pointless and meaningless.
> Never said I was perfect but I thought we were discussing the op's situation which concerns sex before marriage and lies and deception.


Maybe you should add "to me" in these declarative statements so as to not come across as so judgemental.


----------



## Diana7

Blaine said:


> I do agree with you and the truth should have been out a long time ago but depending on the type of guy some will be destroyed and THEN use that as an excuse to hurt others such as the next relationship. But I dont have to live with the consequences.


I dont think he will be any more hurt than someone who has been cheated on in their marriage. People do recover from these types of situations all the time. 

Yes he may well struggle to trust again for some time, but I don't think he will use that to hurt others. Either way these are the consequences of lying and deceiving, Doesn't mean that the lie should be kept any longer. They don't have children so its the best time to do it.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> Not criticising others at all, just stating that sex in marriage is the best. I just get sad at how many people see sex as so casual and shallow. Sex without love and commitment is nothing. Sex with someone you barely know is pointless and meaningless.
> Never said I was perfect but I thought we were discussing the op's situation which concerns sex before marriage and lies and deception.


Kindly, not to really be argumentative but to throw out more info.

The blanket statement "is pointless..." maybe is better "can be". Because sex with someone you barely know, especially when young and no other issues is mostly exciting and a learning experience usually greatly enjoyed. 

I mean, who didn't like the idea of meeting a lady at a club and taking her home, and it worked out. Same for a young lady or woman doing the same. Therefore not pointless. 

Every weekend an adventure kind of time.


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Kindly, not to really be argumentative but to throw out more info.
> 
> The blanket statement "is pointless..." maybe is better "can be". Because sex with someone you barely know, especially when young and no other issues is mostly exciting and a learning experience usually greatly enjoyed.
> 
> I mean, who didn't like the idea of meeting a lady at a club and taking her home, and it worked out. Same for a young lady or woman doing the same. Therefore not pointless.
> 
> Every weekend an adventure kind of time.


Is that really your idea of a good time? Meeting someone in a night club who you know nothing about and barely know and having sex? If so I feel sorry for you. 

There are many who wouldn't like that and who didn't do that. I cant think of a worse way to have sex.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Diana7 said:


> Ragnar Ragnasson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kindly, not to really be argumentative but to throw out more info.
> 
> The blanket statement "is pointless..." maybe is better "can be". Because sex with someone you barely know, especially when young and no other issues is mostly exciting and a learning experience usually greatly enjoyed.
> 
> I mean, who didn't like the idea of meeting a lady at a club and taking her home, and it worked out. Same for a young lady or woman doing the same. Therefore not pointless.
> 
> Every weekend an adventure kind of time.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that really your idea of a good time? Meeting someone in a night club who you know nothing about and barely know and having sex? If so I feel sorry for you.
> 
> There are many who wouldn't like that and who didn't do that. I cant think of a worse way to have sex.
Click to expand...

Diana I agree with you, for myself. No sex with someone I literally just met that night in a club would ever be good sex for me.

But for many, it can be good sex and the sex itself was the goal and was worth it. 

It’s ok that we want different things for ourselves and enjoy or do don’t enjoy different things. 

As to the matter of whether God approves or not, that is between the individual and God.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

It was when I was 17yrs, I have to admit. 70s/early 80s.
Up until I married lo these many years ago.


----------



## Adelais

JustTheWife, 

You have gotten much conflicting advice here.

What is actually holding you back from telling your husband about your past, so the two of you can have an authentic marriage? Fear? Selfishness?

I say, BE BRAVE. Love him enough to give him all the information you withheld when the two of you talked about your sexual encounters (or lack of) before you were married.

Tell him. Let him decide if he wants to remain married to you. It might be too much for him, or he might decide that he loves you more than he loves your virginity. Either way, give him the information he lacks.

You will be OK and so will he.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

There are indeed many conflicting posts and each has their own kernel of good info to consider. 

If one is going to share yes they have a sexual past then if desired to now tell H or W, great detail isn't needed or in all cases helpful in any other way but to (at first, ease the Tellers mind). 

In time afterwards one may regret over sharing any details other than "yes, I had sex before you but you're my chosen sexual keeper, honey". Or not.

It's obviously up to you and what you think is needed.

There's nothing wrong with a sexual history. Really. 

Why is it a continuous concern may be the actual question. 

Married sex is indeed best (@diana7), imo for sure.

Sex before imo is ok.

It can be a double edged sword but only if you fall upon it.

Good luck!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

But for those in ltr, married, single; wild monkey porn sex AND slow sensual sex, and the two can overlap, is the best.

As in running track; one can be great in short sprints, and in long distance runs. I and I'm sure many others did/do both. PS is a track analogy, I did run track. Won state twice.

Each can get a blue ribbon. 

The key is never give up! Love ever' body! In marriage translated love much! With sex and quality time together both.


----------



## minimalME

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> There are indeed many conflicting posts and each has their own kernel of good info to consider.
> 
> If one is going to share yes they have a sexual past then if desired to now tell H or W, great detail isn't needed or in all cases helpful in any other way but to (at first, ease the Tellers mind).
> 
> In time afterwards one may regret over sharing any details other than "yes, I had sex before you but you're my chosen sexual keeper, honey". Or not.


I'm gonna stick with what I suggested at the beginning of the thread. Keep your history to yourself.

Personally, I don't think sharing with a higher-up at your church is going to be any different from sharing here, but if you decide you need to talk to someone face-to-face, I'd do it very, very far from your home community.


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Not criticising others at all, just stating that sex in marriage is the best. I just get sad at how many people see sex as so casual and shallow. Sex without love and commitment is nothing. Sex with someone you barely know is pointless and meaningless.
> Never said I was perfect but I thought we were discussing the op's situation which concerns sex before marriage and lies and deception.


I don't really understand your views on this. I have always said that sex meant a whole lot to me whether it was with someone I had feelings for or a complete stranger. One of the reasons that I feel so guilty and think I should confess it all to him is because I do feel that it's so important. To me it's a very serious act even if i gave it away to so many guys. But you're saying that it's nothing and meaningless if there is no love and commitment. So why should I risk ruining my marriage over something that is "nothing" as you say? I'm not trying to start an argument but as you know, I'm very confused by all of this. On one hand you are saying that it's all nothing and also saying that it's such a big thing that I need to risk my marriage over. Maybe it is nothing. 

I think that i'd be better off if i could just convince myself that it was all just "nothing" bit unfortunately i'm not able to do that.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JustTheWife said:


> I don't really understand your views on this. I have always said that sex meant a whole lot to me whether it was with someone I had feelings for or a complete stranger. *One of the reasons that I feel so guilty and think I should confess it all to him is because I do feel that it's so important. *To me it's a very serious act even if i gave it away to so many guys. But you're saying that it's nothing and meaningless if there is no love and commitment. So why should I risk ruining my marriage over something that is "nothing" as you say? I'm not trying to start an argument but as you know, I'm very confused by all of this. On one hand you are saying that it's all nothing and also saying that it's such a big thing that I need to risk my marriage over. Maybe it is nothing.
> 
> I think that i'd be better off if i could just convince myself that it was all just "nothing" bit unfortunately i'm not able to do that.


Okay, so you've been discussing this across 83 pages of posts now on a thread which has been running for seven months now. 

Bad news isn't like fine wine. It doesn't get better with age.

So what's it gonna' take to get you to do what you know you should do?


----------



## [email protected]

Just, I think that Diana7's view may be that casual sex is worthless, not exactly meaningless. In any event, you have been at the for over seven months, and it'll eat you alive if you won't get off the dime with it. You can't go on much longer this way.
Anyway, back before the aids epidemic hit, I knew a steno who was very promiscuous. She had naked pool parties, nude people in the hot tub, and so forth. sometimes she's wake up in the morning, see a guy in bed with her, and wonder, "Who's he?"
I guy with little experience dated her once, thought she was something great, and gave her the big rush. She quit messing around, they got married, and the last time I saw her, she brought her new baby to the office. I checked years later, and all seemed well with them.


----------



## badsanta

Diana7 said:


> Not criticising others at all, just stating that sex in marriage is the best. I just get sad at how many people see sex as so casual and shallow. Sex without love and commitment is nothing. Sex with someone you barely know is pointless and meaningless.
> Never said I was perfect but I thought we were discussing the op's situation which concerns sex before marriage and lies and deception.





JustTheWife said:


> I don't really understand your views on this. I have always said that sex meant a whole lot to me whether it was with someone I had feelings for or a complete stranger. One of the reasons that I feel so guilty and think I should confess it all to him is because I do feel that it's so important. To me it's a very serious act even if i gave it away to so many guys. But you're saying that it's nothing and meaningless if there is no love and commitment. So why should I risk ruining my marriage over something that is "nothing" as you say? I'm not trying to start an argument but as you know, I'm very confused by all of this. On one hand you are saying that it's all nothing and also saying that it's such a big thing that I need to risk my marriage over. Maybe it is nothing.
> 
> I think that i'd be better off if i could just convince myself that it was all just "nothing" bit unfortunately i'm not able to do that.


 @JustTheWife I think Diana is confused in that she thinks that sex outside of marriage destroys and/or messes someone up for good... meaning that any attempts to later achieve pure and premium lovemaking in the context of marriage is problematic, particular if the marriage is built on top of a lie that both partners were virgins prior to marriage. 

In that sense it is not meaningless but I think she meant to say careless and in violation towards one's wellbeing...

Now obviously NOT everyone believes that. In my personal opinion sex outside of marriage can be a critical aspect of understanding who you are and better knowing yourself through sharing experiences with others. For me all the sex I had in college before getting marriage was indeed emotionally empty which left me feeling emotionally void of something that was needed. Those moments were indeed physically exciting, but serve as a strong reminder to me that the idea of being with anyone other than my wife is not going to be truly fulfilling in any way. 

Regarding my sexual history when I met my wife, I never hid anything from her whatsoever. With the exception of some a history of bad porn habits that I wished to sweep under the rug... but that came back to cause problems that would have been easier to solve if I had also been open about those issues from the beginning. 

I honestly do not know if you come here to look for courage to open up and share your history with your husband, or to find validation for lying to him. People here will argue that from both sides for you.... perhaps at least be honest here and let everyone know if you are looking for courage open up or looking to find others that agree that the past should stay in the past?

regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## Diana7

Faithful Wife said:


> Diana I agree with you, for myself. No sex with someone I literally just met that night in a club would ever be good sex for me.
> 
> But for many, it can be good sex and the sex itself was the goal and was worth it.
> 
> It’s ok that we want different things for ourselves and enjoy or do don’t enjoy different things.
> 
> As to the matter of whether God approves or not, that is between the individual and God.


Well God does tell us that sex outside marriage is wrong, so we can be sure of what He wants.


----------



## Diana7

badsanta said:


> @JustTheWife I think Diana is confused in that she thinks that sex outside of marriage destroys and/or messes someone up for good... meaning that any attempts to later achieve pure and premium lovemaking in the context of marriage is problematic, particular if the marriage is built on top of a lie that both partners were virgins prior to marriage.
> 
> In that sense it is not meaningless but I think she meant to say careless and in violation towards one's wellbeing...
> 
> Now obviously NOT everyone believes that. In my personal opinion sex outside of marriage can be a critical aspect of understanding who you are and better knowing yourself through sharing experiences with others. For me all the sex I had in college before getting marriage was indeed emotionally empty which left me feeling emotionally void of something that was needed. Those moments were indeed physically exciting, but serve as a strong reminder to me that the idea of being with anyone other than my wife is not going to be truly fulfilling in any way.
> 
> Regarding my sexual history when I met my wife, I never hid anything from her whatsoever. With the exception of some a history of bad porn habits that I wished to sweep under the rug... but that came back to cause problems that would have been easier to solve if I had also been open about those issues from the beginning.
> 
> I honestly do not know if you come here to look for courage to open up and share your history with your husband, or to find validation for lying to him. People here will argue that from both sides for you.... perhaps at least be honest here and let everyone know if you are looking for courage open up or looking to find others that agree that the past should stay in the past?
> 
> regards,
> Badsanta


Yes it does mess us up, but there is forgiveness and healing with God. He does also expect us to be truthful and honest though, especially with our spouse.


----------



## Diana7

[email protected] said:


> Just, I think that Diana7's view may be that casual sex is worthless, not exactly meaningless. In any event, you have been at the for over seven months, and it'll eat you alive if you won't get off the dime with it. You can't go on much longer this way.
> Anyway, back before the aids epidemic hit, I knew a steno who was very promiscuous. She had naked pool parties, nude people in the hot tub, and so forth. sometimes she's wake up in the morning, see a guy in bed with her, and wonder, "Who's he?"
> I guy with little experience dated her once, thought she was something great, and gave her the big rush. She quit messing around, they got married, and the last time I saw her, she brought her new baby to the office. I checked years later, and all seemed well with them.


Icelander you are right. Pointless, worthless and empty, but definitely not meaningless. Because its not meaningless is the reason not to treat it casually because it can be so damaging.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I don't really understand your views on this. I have always said that sex meant a whole lot to me whether it was with someone I had feelings for or a complete stranger. One of the reasons that I feel so guilty and think I should confess it all to him is because I do feel that it's so important. To me it's a very serious act even if i gave it away to so many guys. But you're saying that it's nothing and meaningless if there is no love and commitment. So why should I risk ruining my marriage over something that is "nothing" as you say? I'm not trying to start an argument but as you know, I'm very confused by all of this. On one hand you are saying that it's all nothing and also saying that it's such a big thing that I need to risk my marriage over. Maybe it is nothing.
> 
> I think that i'd be better off if i could just convince myself that it was all just "nothing" bit unfortunately i'm not able to do that.


Yes sex is important, very important, but for you and I as Christians it is for marriage only. I was saying that sex without love is pointless and shallow in comparison to what it was always meant to be, part of a loving committed relationship in marriage. 

Yes you do need to confess it to him, I am SURE you know that by now. You will never feel happy in this marriage with the weight of this on you, and the marriage will never thrive either with hidden lies. I honestly have no idea how you can keep such a lie from him, I couldn't do that for a day let alone years. I just cant understand those who advise keeping such a massive lie from you own husband. Lying always ends badly. 

Yes he will be hurt, deeply hurt, but really what did you expect? He will survive and after a time even your marriage may survive, but this secret will eat away at you until you get ill. As I said before God may well enable him to find out anyway if you don't tell him, which would be far worse. 

You will never be right with God or your husband until you do this, and the longer you leave it the worse it will be. Why not write him a letter if telling him is so hard. Even go away for a few days when you have given it to him to let him take it in and begin to think about what he wants to do next. 

BTW have you been rested for Std's? They are rife and not all have symptoms you can see.


----------



## Wazza

Blaine said:


> But Diana7 what if telling him does him "harm" what if he cant handle it? I have seen lots of people confess and feel so good about getting it off of their chest only to see the person they "love" destroyed.


The damage, whatever it is, is already done. 

The marriage is deteriorating, and the secret is at least part of why. The husband doesn’t even know what he’s up against, and a divorce he can’t explain is not going to let him rest easy. JTW is unhappy. She knows she is living a lie. She’s trying to push through it by force of will, and it isn’t working. 

Telling is (a) the best chance the marriage has and (b) the least painful way to bring things to an end if they are not going to make it.


----------



## TJW

Wazza said:


> The damage, whatever it is, is already done.
> The husband doesn’t even know what he’s up against,


He may not be able to specifically state the precise set of circumstances which has brought his marriage here, but he knows already that he is "up against" his wife's expectations that he cannot successfully meet. He knows. He already knows his wife is not pleased with him sexually. That message has come through to him quite loudly and quite clearly. 



Wazza said:


> a divorce he can’t explain is not going to let him rest easy.


This man is not going to "rest easy" with any divorce, whether it is explainable, or not. It is fully against everything inside him, unless he could feel biblically grounded to seek a divorce. And, even then,

If this man is anything like me, he will also understand that divorce, under any circumstances, is part of God's permissive will, but not part of His perfect will. He will understand that to remain with his wife, forgiving her for her transgressions against him, and striving to be the best husband he can be under the circumstances, is what God's perfect will is for him.

I think he will be fully capable of this forgiveness, and will not regard her past sexual behavior as "against him". He will leave those things between his wife and God. I think he will understand why she lied to him about those things, which is the transgression "against him", and I think he will view her lies as being no different than his own sins, for which he has received his Lord's forgiveness.

Unfortunately, not much is really going to change for him. An earlier poster described the OP as an "alpha widow". This is a rather perfect description of the situation which exists in his marriage. He is Mr. Beta, and there is no such thing as a "red pill", not even at the end of the yellow brick road.

He is what God intended him to be, and what God made him to be. God approves of him just as he is, whether his wife does, or not. But his wife's disdain and disrespect will be a painful continuum in his life that he will have to bear, and consider God's grace as being sufficient.


----------



## Mr.Married

So when do we get to the point where you tell him...or decide not to tell him?


----------



## Knips

OP i wonder why you have choosen to marry you're current husband. The sexual incompatibility seems very large. Eventually this will lead to frustration, resentment and maybe later on to cheating. You're wild past has set you're sexual standard. And no you need to be happy with "boring" husband sex.


----------



## badsanta

Diana7 said:


> Yes it does mess us up, but there is forgiveness and healing with God. He does also expect us to be truthful and honest though, especially with our spouse.


Yes but the OP is likely dealing with TWO problems...

1) Hiding her sexual past and feeling guilty

2) Choosing a husband that is sexually mismatched with her levels and style of desire


So she could confess everything and the husband might happen to already know these things through talking with other friends and people in the community about his wife's past and he may very well already be very accepting of it. People do talk you know! All her past boyfriends know somebody who knows somebody who has bragged about it among just the guys in a way that the news has likely made it around to her husband! ...OK problem 1) is going to be no big deal. 

As for problem 2) his sexual desires and behaviors in the marriage will very well remain unchanged. He will likely remain sexually reserved and unlikely to demonstrate much desire. The is because people do not change and that likely is who he is. 

I'm aware of a few stories of women with an exciting history that settle down with a sexually reserved husband and then get upset that he is not exciting. The psychology behind this is that sexually exciting men have a lot of partners and are not loyal enough for a committed marriage. The sexually reserved man is seen as someone who will be loyal and that the nature of him being a little shy or reserved might be fun and exciting to explore and help him develop into a real man. But in reality these men are just shy and reserved because that is who they are and it will never change.... Perhaps there are moments of hope and then it all goes to sh**!

I think the OP is completely overlooking problem 2) and that if there is a chance at "trying" to work on that, she will have to solve problem 1) first. It will be an uphill battle and ends in discovering another uphill battle tens times the size after winning the first one...

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## TJW

Example given:



tjw said:


> his wife's disdain and disrespect will be a painful continuum in his life





badsanta said:


> help him develop into a real man.





badsanta said:


> I think the OP is completely overlooking problem 2) and that if there is a chance at "trying" to work on that, she will have to solve problem 1) first. It will be an uphill battle and ends in discovering another uphill battle tens times the size after winning the first one...


Seems to me that OP is completely aware of how solution to problem 1) brings about problem 2). This seems to be the basis for her reluctance to "tell him". Problem 2) is already in evidence. There is a strong possibility that telling him is going to make problem 2) far worse, due to his humiliation.

The "uphill battle" here is of monumental proportion. The OP has the lion's share of it, she is the one who has to do most of the changing in order for the marriage to succeed.


----------



## TJW

Wazza said:


> Telling is (a) the best chance the marriage has and (b) the least painful way to bring things to an end if they are not going to make it.


It is certainly the best chance. And, it is the least painful, for the OP. If they are not going to make it, her "part" of this will be completed in an hour.

Unfortunately, Mr. OP will live the entire rest of his life in self-retribution for not being "man enough" to please the woman he loved most. But, this is likely, whether they "make it", or not.


----------



## Diana7

badsanta said:


> Yes but the OP is likely dealing with TWO problems...
> 
> 1) Hiding her sexual past and feeling guilty
> 
> 2) Choosing a husband that is sexually mismatched with her levels and style of desire
> 
> 
> So she could confess everything and the husband might happen to already know these things through talking with other friends and people in the community about his wife's past and he may very well already be very accepting of it. People do talk you know! All her past boyfriends know somebody who knows somebody who has bragged about it among just the guys in a way that the news has likely made it around to her husband! ...OK problem 1) is going to be no big deal.
> 
> As for problem 2) his sexual desires and behaviors in the marriage will very well remain unchanged. He will likely remain sexually reserved and unlikely to demonstrate much desire. The is because people do not change and that likely is who he is.
> 
> I'm aware of a few stories of women with an exciting history that settle down with a sexually reserved husband and then get upset that he is not exciting. The psychology behind this is that sexually exciting men have a lot of partners and are not loyal enough for a committed marriage. The sexually reserved man is seen as someone who will be loyal and that the nature of him being a little shy or reserved might be fun and exciting to explore and help him develop into a real man. But in reality these men are just shy and reserved because that is who they are and it will never change.... Perhaps there are moments of hope and then it all goes to sh**!
> 
> I think the OP is completely overlooking problem 2) and that if there is a chance at "trying" to work on that, she will have to solve problem 1) first. It will be an uphill battle and ends in discovering another uphill battle tens times the size after winning the first one...
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Yes but first she must tell him. If he then decides to remain they can more openly talk about sex and where they go from there. I wouldnt say he is reserved, people can learn and change and work together on their sex lives.


----------



## Mr.Married

TJW said:


> Mr. OP will live the entire rest of his life in self-retribution for not being "man enough" to please the woman he loved most.


Perhaps I missed something in previous post: Is there something already going on with Mr. OP feeling that he can't please his woman? 

If Mr. Op is already feeling insecure I sure in the hell would not tell him.....he will be crushed.

I would not tell him either way but that is just me..I know others have different views.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Yes but first she must tell him. If he then decides to remain they can more openly talk about sex and where they go from there. I wouldnt say he is reserved, people can learn and change and work together on their sex lives.




They can talk more openly about sex whether she tells him or not. But they don’t. So telling him is not going to change that fact. Nor does he want or can’t change his approach. One has really nothing to do with the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW

Mr.Married said:


> Perhaps I missed something in previous post: Is there something already going on with Mr. OP feeling that he can't please his woman?


I don't think you missed anything. This has not been stated by the OP. It is my "take" on it as a potential reason that he remains shy and reserved after these many months of their marriage, and the OP has clearly expressed her disappointment here. I'm sure that he "gets the message".


----------



## 269370

TJW said:


> I don't think you missed anything. This has not been stated by the OP. It is my "take" on it as a potential reason that he remains shy and reserved after these many months of their marriage, and the OP has clearly expressed her disappointment here. I'm sure that he "gets the message".



I don’t think he knows she is ‘not pleased’. You might be projecting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## badsanta

TJW said:


> Seems to me that OP is completely aware of how solution to problem 1) brings about problem 2). This seems to be the basis for her reluctance to "tell him". Problem 2) is already in evidence. There is a strong possibility that telling him is going to make problem 2) far worse, due to his humiliation.
> 
> The "uphill battle" here is of monumental proportion. The OP has the lion's share of it, she is the one who has to do most of the changing in order for the marriage to succeed.


I do not think there is any correlation between 1) (the OP lying about her sexual past) bringing about problem 2) (her husband being sexually reserved). This is NOT a situation where one problem created the other. But it is a situation in which problem 2) can not be addressed unless she opens up about who she is so that her husband can love and accept her for who she is. 

The solution for 2) is to realize that it is not a problem and that she must love and accept her husband for who he is and NOT for who she wants him to be. Then perhaps they can work on their marriage and try to improve communication and trust which should improve the quality of intimacy but not necessarily the frequency and style of lovemaking. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## TJW

badsanta said:


> The solution for 2) is to realize that it is not a problem and that she must love and accept her husband for who he is and NOT for who she wants him to be. Then perhaps they can work on their marriage and try to improve communication and trust which should improve the quality of intimacy but not necessarily the frequency and style of lovemaking.


I agree with "not necessarily". However, this is the set of attitudes which will best allow the possibility of improvement.


----------



## TJW

You are in my prayers and thoughts almost every day. I so want your marriage to "work" for you and your husband. I came across this :

https://store.focusonthefamily.com/...1534433713-1472139811.1534433713#refcd=400109

I've known about the Focus on the Family ministry for decades. There's not much info about this book directly on the site I found, however, I know if Focus on the Family recommends it, it is undoubtedly good and it is undoubtedly biblical.

Perhaps you will find help in it.

LATER EDIT: there's a preview here :

https://books.google.com/books/abou...ver&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## Wolfman1968

Wow. This thread has been going on since January, and the OP has not taken any definitive action yet. 

OP, is this really helping you at this point? I feel like it's just regurgitating the same points over and over by this time. Have you reached maximum information benefit now? 

We've been waiting for a decision to be made, and we are still left in limbo. I feel like I am reading Waiting for Godot.

OP, isn't this all repetitive by now?


----------



## Mr.Married

Perhaps the choice was made.....don't tell


----------



## GHaynes

Your guilt is overwhelming for a reason. Listen to it. You took away his choice of whether to marry you and you forced him to be married to who he thought you were. He deserves the right to know who he married and to decide for himself if he still wants to be married to you or not. If you truly love him, you will make the right decision.


----------



## TJW

I may be speaking to myself.....but I wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and your husband, that you will both find a good and satisfying marriage. And, I believe God can do it.


----------



## red oak

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> I want what you have in a relationship. You're so right that it needs to be right for US. I can't imagine that with my husband. Sexuality is an important part of a person but so often hidden from your partner. My case might be more extreme but I think many (most?) couples are not completely open with their partners. I think its very common to downplay things and avoid discussing the history, real views on sex and feelings.
> 
> So many people hide the truth. I get that I'm a liar and doing the wrong thing so I'm not making excuses but I think most people have limits to the truth that they will tell. I'm probably not alone in having a past that could be very upsetting to my husband. Is sparing detail to protect feelings wrong? I'd be less of a liar if I told my husband that I "slept with" some other guys but would not say how many and I said it was nothing or just some "mistakes" that I made and none of it was any good.
> 
> I'm afraid to tell him anything but I also feel like if I can't be truly open as you describe with your husband then why bother? I can't bring myself to downplay it. I feel like it's floodgates and if it opens, i need to be fully open about it. I'm a sensitive person and maybe I think too much. i get moved deeply by things and sex became like my religion to me. I mean I am so deeply into my religion and I was always in awe of the ultimate power of God and to serve Him. Then in sex I found what seemed like a much stronger power when I was submissive with dominant guys. It moved me in a much stronger way than i've ever been moved emotionally. I'm so ashamed of this and writing this and admitting this is so difficult for me.
> 
> Subservience to a dominant and all powerful man in sex feels like subservience to God in my religion but like 100x more powerful. I mean obviously it's very different but emotionally i felt some of the same types of feelings. Maybe like I'm serving God or serving the devil. I'm so confused.
> 
> So what am I supposed to do? Tell my husband that I "slept with" some guys? That doesn't really even scratch the surface of the truth. Do I tell him that I'm confused about how the ultimate power feels? That I get confused whether I want to kneel before God or kneel before the devil? There is no answer to my problems. Why am I cursed with this?


I dont have the answer to your delima but can point. 

First: read the bible without preconceived ideas of what it is supposed to mean. To really understand the bible, always ask who is speaking, and to whom. The tanach will always defines itself! But you have to read!

Second: quit beating on yourself, only then can you think and listen carefully!

I was raised very religious, and have been through all the unnecessary guilt crap. Robbed me of a few good years.


----------



## oldshirt

Mr.Married said:


> Perhaps the choice was made.....don't tell


"Even if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

- Rush



That choice is being made every single day.


----------

