# Hard to stay optimistic..



## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

So a couple of weeks ago I was contemplating divorce because I was tired of the fighting and feeling lonely. 

I made the decision to give it yet another try to work on my marriage and H and I talked and agreed we would both work on it.

Things were good for a few days and then they went South. 

I've been working hard to increase communication and connect with him, even placed his 'needs' closer to the top of my list of priorities. I had signed up for the MORT newsletter and he and I had gotten up to #3 on that.

Well, yesterday was a very busy day for me. I had alot of errands to run and things to take care of. So I get home from errands and still had quite a bit left on my 'to do' list. 

H was at home and other than straightening up very few things around the house, all he got accomplished was about 3 hours worth of TV. At some point, he did tell me that another MORT email had come in, but he hadn't read it yet.

At bedtime, after he came upstairs from showering, (and still hadn't read the newsletter) I tried starting up a conversation, one that concerned our sex life, just a problem I was having (physically). His attention was half focused on the TV and half focused on me. Our conversation turned into him cracking a little joke about it and not having any other input about it otherwise. 

I gave up and started playing a game on my phone. 

I feel like as long as he isn't being deprived in the sex department and we aren't fighting, our marriage is OK with him. Obviously what was on TV was more important than what I had to say, more important than getting the weed trimmer out and working on the yard while I was busy with a million other things. Also, more important than reading the email that is supposed to be helping us along with getting back on track.

So now I feel like nothing has been accomplished and we are reverting right back to the same old rut.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Well, I've seen it posted so many times, 'Both people have to work on it or nothing will change' so I guess I have my answer.


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

No words of wisdom here tonight. I feel for you.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Hurtin' unit said:


> No words of wisdom here tonight. I feel for you.


I feel for you and your situation too. Even though my H is still here physically, I want him to come back to the marriage but he refuses. Not refusing as saying he doesn't want it, but refusing as he's been given every opportunity and doesn't act on it. So, in a sense, he has left me.

I could give him yet another chance and temporarily ease the pain. But it will come back in another form and there is no end that way. At least if I leave and deal with that pain, I know there will eventually be an end.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

jtk said:


> Things were good for a few days and then they went South.



I would say that you should give it a little more time before you make a permanent decision that nothing is changing. It took years to get into the rut you’re in and it may well take years to get out of it. Things certainly won’t change after only a few days of working at it and they are going to get worse before they get better as you air everything out. It’s part of the process and there isn't an easy fix. 

Do you know what your husband’s love language is? Are you using that method to communicate with him? If you are using _your_ love language and _his_ is not the same, you could be communicating your way until you’re blue in the face and it won’t get through to him. 

Had you agreed on any sort of schedule about how and when to read the Mort updates? If you had made an agreement to read and discuss immediately upon receiving them then he was wrong not to follow through. But if he simply didn’t read it on your time table that’s not something you can hold against him. Again, especially after only a few days have passed. 

Before giving up when you were trying to talk to him did you calmly ask him to turn off the television so you could have a conversation? Or did you expect him to know that you wanted him to turn off the television? This may be common sense to you and me but I know my H doesn’t see anything wrong with watching television while we’re talking. If I want his full attention I ask for it. Did you tell him how his joke made you feel or why?

As for staying positive through all of it, it’s not easy. What I try to do is literally think positive thoughts. When some negativity starts creeping in I stop, identify my own negative thought and dissect it. Where is it coming from? Why do I feel this way? Am I justified for feeling this way? _Really_ justified? And then I make the choice to think something positive about my husband like the way he can make me laugh at the drop of a hat. Keep reminding yourself of positive things and it will become easier to be positive.

Have you considered counselling to help with the communication issue?


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

WantsHappiness said:


> I would say that you should give it a little more time before you make a permanent decision that nothing is changing. It took years to get into the rut you’re in and it may well take years to get out of it. Things certainly won’t change after only a few days of working at it and they are going to get worse before they get better as you air everything out. It’s part of the process and there isn't an easy fix.
> 
> Do you know what your husband’s love language is? Are you using that method to communicate with him? If you are using _your_ love language and _his_ is not the same, you could be communicating your way until you’re blue in the face and it won’t get through to him.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your input.

I do understand that a few days isn't going to change everything right away. The background on this though is about 5 years of trying to change things. Always the end result is the same. Fighting about the same things, feeling neglected in the same ways, going back to the same rut. 

How many times have we tried to start anew? I have no idea exactly, but it's been many.

Did we agree on a schedule to do MORT? No.
My thoughts on that are if you are faced with a spouse who clearly says they want things to change or they're divorcing you, and you have agreed to their request to use something in particular for a sense of direction, you should make your marriage top priority and take the initiative. It's not like he was too busy, he was watching TV most of the day.

I also did not ask him to turn off the TV when I started talking to him. Honestly, I don't feel I should have to. How would he feel if I left the TV on during sex? I don't understand the reasoning behind having to draw out or spell out everything for our men. I have already told him on plenty of occasions that I expect his undivided attention when talking. I really am trying to understand why I should be expected to take him by the hand each and every time I expect something from him. He's a big boy with his own brain, someone please explain that to me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jtk said:


> Thanks so much for your input.
> 
> I do understand that a few days isn't going to change everything right away. The background on this though is about 5 years of trying to change things. Always the end result is the same. _Fighting_ about the same things, _feeling neglected_ in the same ways, going back to the same _rut_.
> 
> ...


Yes, five years. But were they productive years? Did you do the trying to change in a productive, helpful way, or did you just keep doing it the way you felt comfortable doing?

There are professionals who teach these things to couples for a reason. They're trained. They know what works. They know how to recognize running around in circles when they see it. They can give you ways to STOP doing that. 

As it is, you just keep doing the same things, over and over, and get madder and more resentful, because it doesn't work. Why would it work the 43rd time, if it didn't work the first time?

Also, you make a lot of assumptions on what he SHOULD be doing, and then you resent him for not living up to your assumptions. And he doesn't even know what they ARE!
It's a pretty good guess that HE has a lot of assumptions about what he thinks YOU should be doing, too. Look at all the things you say above that are about what YOU want, what YOU believe, what YOU think he should do. Nothing about what it looks like from his side.

In fact, 90% of the problems I see in relationships are because you have two people, each of which sees THEIR side and makes no attempt to see the other side. And then get mad or frustrated because nothing is changing.

Of course he should be working on this, taking it seriously. But it sounds like he sees little incentive. Men tend to take a very particular tack when women get in their face; I see it all the time. You feel like you shouldn't have to do any more; HE is the problem. Well, guess what? He thinks YOU are the problem! You say you'll divorce him if he doesn't shape up; at this point, why should he?

Not trying to dis you, just get you to think about this from what HE likely sees.

You have to understand his thinking before you can get him to care.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I hear ya, I’m going through communication stuff with my husband too so I know that it can sometimes feel like you’re beating your head against a wall. It’s so easy to get discouraged. But if you’ve been using the same methods each and every time you try to start over throughout those five years it isn’t going to get you anywhere. If you use the same method, you’re going to get the same results. One of my all-time favorite quotes is Einstein’s definition of insanity. His definition of insanity is “repeating the same action and expecting different results.” I’m not saying you’re insane (not at all!) but it’s the theory that’s important. The same action will always yield the same results. Time to change the action. 

Try talking out a schedule for the Mort’s updates. Tell him that you’re putting a lot of effort into it and it’s dire that he do the same since you already agreed on this method (or something like that) so you want to set up a schedule. You can do this for important conversations too. It’s not that you’ll always have to have scheduled conversations from here on out, and things will come up off-schedule that need to be discussed, but setting aside specific times at first will get you both into the habit of focusing on each other during interaction. 

When it comes down to it, they just don’t think like us. No I personally don’t think that you should have to ask for him to turn the tv off every time you need to talk but he doesn’t seem to see a reason that he should have to so where does that leave you if you don’t ask? It leaves you feeling upset and neglected when if you would have asked in the first place you could have avoided it. Again, not saying that your way is right or that his way is right but it’s important to recognize that you have different opinions on this and find a middle ground that doesn’t neglect either of you. 




jtk said:


> He's a big boy with his own brain, someone please explain that to me.


Check out this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/12988-ladies-i-need-your-help.html I think it’s very interesting as it pertains to your question and the way men and women think differently.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

With the tv thing, the better choice would have been to say 'when you don't turn the tv off when we're talking, I feel like what I have to say is not as important to you as the tv, so I feel belittled. I would feel more loved if we could talk without the tv on.'

That way, he knows NEXT time, ahead of time, that if he truly wants to show he's working on things, he'll turn the tv off.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

turnera said:


> With the tv thing, the better choice would have been to say 'when you don't turn the tv off when we're talking, I feel like what I have to say is not as important to you as the tv, so I feel belittled. I would feel more loved if we could talk without the tv on.'


Yes absolutely, *I* statements are key! Rather than telling him that he should turn off the television, you explain what it means to you/how it feels when he does or doesn’t.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

If both partners aren't fully committed and trying, you're dead in the water. I feel really bad for you. 

I've been a loveless marriage for many years. Finding my own separate identity, pursuing my own things -- this is what saved me from going crazy. I hope at least you'll be able to do the same, at least in the interim.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Yes, five years. But were they productive years? Did you do the trying to change in a productive, helpful way, or did you just keep doing it the way you felt comfortable doing?
> 
> There are professionals who teach these things to couples for a reason. They're trained. They know what works. They know how to recognize running around in circles when they see it. They can give you ways to STOP doing that.
> 
> ...


First you tell me I need to stop making assumptions for him and then you tell me that all I talk about is ME, nothing about HIS side. If I were to tell you anything about his side, I would again be making assumptions. 

What do I KNOW? I know how I feel, so that is what I write about. What does HE feel? Well, let's see - When asked if I was fulfilling his needs completely he has told me that I am the perfect wife in every way other than not wanting sex.

He has told me that he's known ahead of time that something would upset me, when asked WHY he did it, I get "I don't know".

He has told me that he has alot of growing up to do.
He has told me that he knows what my needs are, and when asked why then does he not meet them, I get "I don't know".

After I am done with a long rant about how the things he does or doesn't do, make me feel, I ask him does he have anything to say, I get "Not really, you're right". So I say, then where do we go from here? He says he'll change. Five years worth of that I've had already. I am soo tired.

I can tell you, if he thinks I am the problem, he certainly hasn't said so. According to him, he has no complaints other than sex.

As far as needing to understand his thinking before I can get him to care, I would love too! But wait, what is there to understand about 'I don't know"? He thinks I'm a great wife for the most part. He thinks I'm not asking too much of him. He sees where he is lacking. 

You say he sees little incentive? I guess that now puts us in the same boat. Along with that I am very frustrated and bitter and TIRED.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

seahorse said:


> If both partners aren't fully committed and trying, you're dead in the water. I feel really bad for you.
> 
> I've been a loveless marriage for many years. Finding my own separate identity, pursuing my own things -- this is what saved me from going crazy. I hope at least you'll be able to do the same, at least in the interim.


That is exactly what I'm trying to say. I feel like I am the only one fully committed to trying. I can't carry the both of us, even if I could I would resent doing it. 

Why do you stay in a loveless marriage Seahorse?


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

I'm trying my best to fix things, but it's been ridiculously difficult. The average person would have called it quits 20 times before now. 



jtk said:


> That is exactly what I'm trying to say. I feel like I am the only one fully committed to trying. I can't carry the both of us, even if I could I would resent doing it.
> 
> Why do you stay in a loveless marriage Seahorse?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have created a relationship in which he has given up. If you don't want to see it, that's fine. Just divorce already. 

But until you are willing to look at yourself and your OWN part in your situation, nothing will improve. People have given you a lot of good advice, but as usual, you are just busy defending yourself. What does that accomplish?


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> You have created a relationship in which he has given up. If you don't want to see it, that's fine. Just divorce already.
> 
> But until you are willing to look at yourself and your OWN part in your situation, nothing will improve. People have given you a lot of good advice, but as usual, you are just busy defending yourself. What does that accomplish?


Well, if my own spouse of 10 yrs tells me I have no part in the crumbling of our marriage, then maybe you can enlighten me?

I have created a relationship in which he has given up? Maybe I am so busy defending myself because I am constantly being attacked.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look, when I first came to a forum and complained just like you, people knocked it into my head that I was JUST as responsible for our issues as HE was. They didn't let up on me for over a year. And believe me, my husband is a LOT worse than yours. I fought, I fought, I fought. Why couldn't everyone see what an ass he was?

Didn't matter, they didn't care. He wasn't there, I was. Therefore, it had to be ME who started making changes.

So I finally, after getting mad a couple times and leaving the forums in anger, and coming back, after a YEAR, I finally said, 'Fine! I'll work on myself. I'll do what you tell me.' And I did. I stopped focusing on what a douche he was, and focused on ME not LBing him any more and on ME meeting his ENs.

It was amazing how fast he changed, stopped being an ass, just because I stopped focusing on his issues.

I'm in no way saying he's better than you or whatever. I'm saying what I describe works, if you give it a try.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Look, when I first came to a forum and complained just like you, people knocked it into my head that I was JUST as responsible for our issues as HE was. They didn't let up on me for over a year. And believe me, my husband is a LOT worse than yours. I fought, I fought, I fought. Why couldn't everyone see what an ass he was?
> 
> Didn't matter, they didn't care. He wasn't there, I was. Therefore, it had to be ME who started making changes.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

You say as a result of the method you used, he changed. Are all of your ENs now being met? How would you currently classify the state of your marriage?

Not sure what I think about concentrating on not LBing him and concentrating on his ENs. My first instinct is hell no, but I'll give that some thought.

I appreciate you being upfront and honest about why you were giving me such a hard time. It's a little easier to handle now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, it was almost an overnight change. Like within a week or month. It's like he'd been walking around carrying all this resentment and assumptions about me and angry and feeling like he got gypped marrying me, and then I threw out an olive branch, and he just jumped at it. Before that, he was so bad that he would put something down, I'd ask him to put it away, he'd stare me straight in the face, not say a word, and walk away. Without putting it away. HE was just as fed up as I was.

I guarantee your H is, too.

My state? Hard to say. I spent 28 years in a state of dismay, anger, shame, hatred, and resignation...I literally fell out of love with him. A long time ago. But my fear of confrontation (from childhood) is so strong that I never said a word. Until I no longer loved him.

Today? He's ok. I got some 'give' from him, it was ok for awhile, and I liked that our life got better. But it's so much more complicated than that. But I spent so many years just wishing he would disappear that I'm having to push myself to get past 'like' and back to love. 

My first instinct was hell no, too. Took me over a year before I'd even consider it. Why should I? HE was the one ruining our marriage.

Until I stopped and took a good hard look at myself. None of us likes to do that. People who post in forums almost always paint the picture to be all about the other guy; it's human nature. But when I finally let down my shield and looked at myself, I saw all the little ways I demeaned him, pushed him, used passive aggressiveness, stopped admiring him or complimenting him. I met almost none of his needs. In reality, it's amazing he stayed with ME!

That's why I keep pointing out to people, especially those of us who so vehemently decry our spouses, that we have to look in the mirror first - give that spouse a REASON to want to change.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

jtk said:


> When asked if I was fulfilling his needs completely he has told me that I am the perfect wife in every way other than not wanting sex.


I wanted to touch on this thought. For the first 5-6 years of our relationship my husband was the same way. I could do no wrong in his eyes, I was the perfect girlfriend/wife. Well as far as he would tell me anyway. I knew some little things bothered him and I would ask in a straightforward manner if they did. In spite of the fact that I could clearly see that he was bothered, he would tell me that whatever the particular item was, it didn’t bother him. I could name a million little things; I used to leave my clothes in the dryer for a couple days, I hate grocery shopping, I forget to turn off a light when I leave the room, etc. He would swear up and down that none of these things bothered him. Fast forward to year 6-7 of the relationship and one year into marriage we go into marriage counseling. He maintained this view, that I was perfect and we were only there to tackle my grievances, and the counselor saw right through him as well. By the 5th session he needed more fingers and toes to count all of the little annoyances he’d been bottling up all those years. They had led to resentment and he was not communicating at all as a result (granted, I had been doing the same thing, it was bad). Instead, in order to avoid conflict he would lie and say everything was fine. It was a hard fall for me (from that pedestal) but it was one we both needed.

Anyone who tells someone they are perfect and don’t do anything wrong is either lying or is blinded by newness of a relationship. We all have pet peeves and we all have annoying habits. When we don’t air our grievances we wind up in a really bad situation years down the road.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

WantsHappiness

Thank you for pointing that out for me. I just assumed he was being completely honest with me. With everything else going on in my head it just adds to the frustration of figuring things out when I think I have all the facts and I find out they aren't facts at all. Maybe he does have resentment toward me.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Ugh, I know! I have been telling my husband repeatedly not to hold back, be honest with me when something is bothering him (I tell myself the same  ). All of this little stuff, we can work on that. Bottled up frustration and resentment is a lot more difficult, especially after years of it. It takes me awhile sometimes to break through his defenses but once I do and we both start talking, it works wonders.

Please know that I didn’t mean to imply that you aren’t a good person, just the simple fact that we all have pitfalls. It’s impossible to know what’s really going on in someone else’s head and oftentimes we have to go on what they tell us. It just seems that there has to be more to it on his end. Who knows, with your husband is could be a ton of little stuff like it is with mine. If you can get him to open up it might give you some clues as to what direction you can move in.


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm not saying this is so...only bringin' up a maybe. 

If he believes that you think you are 100% right and him 100% wrong, or that him saying you are anything but perfect would bring up a big argument and cause you to tell him why he is wrong, maybe even turn the whole thing back on him...well then he may feel it best just avoid it all together. Figures it wont help anything anyway.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I have very similar communication issues in my marriage to those expressed by jtk and so have been following this thread with great interest.

I am wondering if The Love Dare would be a good place to start to try and turn things around and get out of the same old cycle and am wondering if WantsHappiness or Turnera have any comments on it or have tried it. I'm hoping that having something different to focus on every day will motivate me not to give up my efforts at the first hurdle. 

Often the first hurdle is the fact that my husband is not in my eyes making any/enough effort (or doesn't appreciate/notice my efforts), so alongside doing the Love Dare, I'm also thinking that if I dig deep make a written note for myself saying something positive about my husband each day, it will hopefully inspire me to keep going. Do you think this might work?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I dont know anything about the Love Dare.

I used the marriagebuilders.com program, which is pretty comprehensive. It's based on psychology, so it works. We do what makes us happy, so to get what you want you have to make YOU what your spouse wants. 

For instance, one woman over at their forums was VERY aggressive - never took no crap from nobody kind of person. She NEVER let him do anything without giving him hell. And she thought HE was the a$$hole; complained about him nonstop. We kept trying to get her to try to see things from his side. Never could. And he stayed away from home. And then she gave him more hell. So he stayed away from home more. So she gave even more hell. On and on.

The moral of that story? Try to get inside your spouse's head.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

OneMarriedGuy said:


> I'm not saying this is so...only bringin' up a maybe.
> 
> If he believes that you think you are 100% right and him 100% wrong, or that him saying you are anything but perfect would bring up a big argument and cause you to tell him why he is wrong, maybe even turn the whole thing back on him...well then he may feel it best just avoid it all together. Figures it wont help anything anyway.


I agree. Imo, this is probably the number one reason spouses don’t communicate in this type of situation. I would also say that telling someone they are perfect all of the time is a breeding ground for them believing they are 100% correct 100% of the time, it’s a catch-22. 

I know with my husband and I, a lot of the problem too was his approach (mine wasn’t any good either). We’d both hold things in and on his end, when he did finally let them out once a year or so the manner in which they came out was not healthy or productive. He’d start picking at me just to start the fight and when I responded it would turn into screaming matches. We’d each be getting digs in at each other, throwing in everything but the kitchen sink instead of addressing the actual underlying issues. This is why I say individual grievances are easy, resentment is not. 




Advocado said:


> I am wondering if The Love Dare would be a good place to start to try and turn things around and get out of the same old cycle and am wondering if WantsHappiness or Turnera have any comments on it or have tried it.


Sorry, Avocado, I don’t have any experience with the Love Dare either. I have watched Fireproof so I am aware of the concept. I do feel it’s a good one because it forces the person doing the Dare to put the focus on their SO. It’s like anything in a marriage, when one spouse sees the other making improvements it can motivate them to do the same. Change starts with oneself. DH and I are just starting to discuss the Love Busters Emotional Needs questionnaires and I’d almost say to start there. The reason is that it will allow you find out what his ENs are first, directly from him instead of having to guess and assume which we all know can lead to trouble, and then you can put them into action using the Dare. If you husband is resistant to that they I say go with the Love Dare. It can’t hurt anything anyway. But if you’re going to do it, do it all the way. Don’t let yourself get discouraged and be sure to vent here often.


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## matt p (May 6, 2010)

Hi sorry to jump onto your thread...but my wife has allways told everyone that i "perfect" that we are "sole mates" etc...i knew that this was not totaly true as i know me..i can be difficlut as can everyone..my wife yes okay she has a few little things that i would say gripe me but not to the extend that i get bothered about them..But why does she just want to walkway from the marriage? i did leave and she wanted me back in the house but we live in seperate rooms. Ok i puhsed for the past 6-7 weeks but have let off for the past week or so..i do text her / email about our son etc and end messages with love you. todays was love you miss you..thats the extent of my pushing...but i feel that i have to let her know im still here. Anyway i'm trying the concentrate on myself routine..gym night out with friends etc...but i fear all that is doing is A) spending money we dont have B) puting a wedge between us. How is it that all you women have been willing to fight for your marriage? did any of you actualy mean it when you said you didnt love your husband? how long did that last before you decided to try? thanks..

P.S i know my issues, i know where i went wrong and the reasons. but even knowing that i know that they are small issues that she has used to blow it up! and yes i LOVE her and want it to work very much!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

After I fell out of love with my husband, and if I told him I was done, and if he then started sending me 'I love you's' I would have been angry at him - for thinking that just saying I love you was enough to make up for the 20-30 years of his ignoring my needs, and I would just take that and say 'great! let's make up!'

That is insulting. It says that, as always, you think that YOUR thoughts are what works, not HERS.

If you want her to love you again, find out WHY she stopped loving you. What about YOU made her stop loving you?

Find out, and fix THAT.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks for your responses Turnera and WantsHappiness. I've now had a chance to look at the EN Questionnaire and will print out 2 copies. 

I would say that my husband is of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" persuasion and so probably will not be keen to participate. However, although I don't feel things have hit rock bottom, I believe "prevention is better than cure" and want to at least maintain but better still improve our relationship (there's plenty of room for improvement). So given all this, not sure on the best approach to get him to fill in the Questionnaire, and would welcome any ideas.


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## PeasNCarrots (Apr 5, 2010)

OK.... We all know who I am at this point! lol Question for WantsHappiness.... ( sorry j for jumping on your thread!) In Jtks relationship at least she can get her H to consider counceling, I cant get my SO to consider counceling, Ive even told him there are plenty of sites online where we can get some help and he doesnt even want to try it. I am one that will put blame on myself and tell him out right that I know im not perfect but that I cant work on me without knowing what bothers him. When he does voice his irritation in something I do or dont do (which is RARELY) I try to correct it and make an honest and open effort to change those things, but it doesnt seem to change anything in our relationship. I now have to work very hard at keeping up those changes because I resent that I have tried to make changes but he doesnt try to do the same. Im pretty sure that whatever it is that he sees as an issue will only be fixed when I find a way to change it or improve it but without his imput I cant even begin to figure it out. So...... how do I get him to voice what bothers him? I know I cant expect him to make all the effort and all of the changes and am more than willing to do my part but cant get him to open up and let it all hang out with me.......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Advocado said:


> Thanks for your responses Turnera and WantsHappiness. I've now had a chance to look at the EN Questionnaire and will print out 2 copies.
> 
> I would say that my husband is of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" persuasion and so probably will not be keen to participate. However, although I don't feel things have hit rock bottom, I believe "prevention is better than cure" and want to at least maintain but better still improve our relationship (there's plenty of room for improvement). So given all this, not sure on the best approach to get him to fill in the Questionnaire, and would welcome any ideas.


 Advocado, PLEASE do not do the EN questionnaire before you have done - and changed your lives according to - the Love Buster questionnaire. All it will do is irritate you both because you'll be thinking you're meeting needs when you are still holding resentments. 

The LB questionnaire will teach you how to stop doing things that tick off your partner. Think of it like a bucket. An LB pokes holes in your love bucket. You try to meet an EN, but because you've ticked off your spouse with LBs and poked holes, all the 'good' stuff you do is wasted, because your spouse still can't get past you pissing them off.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Peas, you too can print out the Love Buster questionnaire. But he will only fill it out honestly if you can make him feel safe in doing so - i.e. he won't get reamed out once you find out what he doesn't like about you.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

"


turnera said:


> Advocado, PLEASE do not do the EN questionnaire before you have done - and changed your lives according to - the Love Buster questionnaire. All it will do is irritate you both because you'll be thinking you're meeting needs when you are still holding resentments. "
> 
> Thanks and noted Turnera - that makes sense.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Advocado said:


> Thanks for your responses Turnera and WantsHappiness. I've now had a chance to look at the EN Questionnaire and will print out 2 copies.
> 
> I would say that my husband is of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" persuasion and so probably will not be keen to participate. However, although I don't feel things have hit rock bottom, I believe "prevention is better than cure" and want to at least maintain but better still improve our relationship (there's plenty of room for improvement). So given all this, not sure on the best approach to get him to fill in the Questionnaire, and would welcome any ideas.


I know what you mean, my husband was of the same mindset until our marriage counselor got him to realize (because I couldn’t communicate it) that some things were very much broke. 

Here’s what has worked for me. And I can’t say that this is the proper approach 100% of the time but it’s worked for us. Eventually I hope this won’t be necessary at all but the position I take is that these things are for me. We went to counseling because _I_ needed it. We started the LB questionnaires because _I_ wanted to learn more about our marriage and how to be a better wife. Even the Love Language quiz mentioned in another thread on TAM, I asked him to take it so _I_ could learn more about our communication styles. It’s all in the approach. If someone feels like they’re being attacked or told that they’re doing something wrong, they’re far less likely to respond positively. It’s human nature. 

Mind you, my H has participated in all of these things and in the big picture they’ve benefitted him too. Just asking him to take the Love Languages test sparked a conversation about what it is and how we’re different. The fact that we had that conversation is major improvement for us and as mentioned above, hopefully after time we will both be more proactive in keeping this marriage in a happy place. 





PeasNCarrots said:


> OK.... We all know who I am at this point! lol Question for WantsHappiness.... ( sorry j for jumping on your thread!) In Jtks relationship at least she can get her H to consider counceling, I cant get my SO to consider counceling, Ive even told him there are plenty of sites online where we can get some help and he doesnt even want to try it. I am one that will put blame on myself and tell him out right that I know im not perfect but that I cant work on me without knowing what bothers him. When he does voice his irritation in something I do or dont do (which is RARELY) I try to correct it and make an honest and open effort to change those things, but it doesnt seem to change anything in our relationship. I now have to work very hard at keeping up those changes because I resent that I have tried to make changes but he doesnt try to do the same. Im pretty sure that whatever it is that he sees as an issue will only be fixed when I find a way to change it or improve it but without his imput I cant even begin to figure it out. So...... how do I get him to voice what bothers him? I know I cant expect him to make all the effort and all of the changes and am more than willing to do my part but cant get him to open up and let it all hang out with me.......


So much for my theory above! Have you actually made the counseling appointment? My husband refused big time at first. Once I made the appointment and told him I was going with or without him he changed his tune. He wasn’t happy about it, no way, but sure enough he showed up for our first appointment. He almost quit a couple times throughout but I held my party line; I’m going, I need this, this marriage will fail without it. 

As for the changes you make not changing anything. Think about that for a minute. You do something that irritates him, actually get him to admit that he’s irritated and then stop doing the thing that irritates him. We’re on the same page at this point, right? So the positive in it is that this particular thing isn’t irritating him anymore so it does make a positive change in your relationship in that way: he’s less irritable. More human nature… we complain when things bug us but don’t say much when nothing is wrong. The absence of being irritated is not something that we’re naturally going to notice, we only notice when we’re irritated. 

How to get him to voice what’s bothering him? At this point we’re still working on this. Just this past weekend I caught DH lying and saying something didn’t bother him when it clearly did. Persistence seems to be a big part. Persistence and attitude. The only way to prove that he is safe in letting it all hang out is by him experiencing letting it all hang out and having a positive result. Don’t go on the defensive when he does get irritated and don’t dismiss the way he feels about something if you don’t see it the same way. 

I’m going to read some of your other threads, I’m sure that more of your story might help.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm glad to know things are starting to work out for you WantsHappiness. It's encouraging to know that your persistence and efforts are taking you in the right direction.

So, if I've understood you correctly I should introduce the LB Questionnaire by saying something like - I know I'm not perfect and most probably irritate you at times without actually knowing it, and maybe sometimes know it but have not taken action on trying to stop doing the things that irritate you .... so as honestly and completely as you possibly can, fill in this LB questionnaire for me so that I can now do my utmost to work on these things and improve our relationship. 

Also, with his "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude, how do I go about presenting him with my completed LB questionnaire, or should I perhaps just leave that to one side for the moment if he doesn't ask for it. This brings me back to the thread title by jtk, how do you stay optimistic if, for example, he just laps it up without seeming to notice your efforts and is not engaged in changing his own actions? I'm also somewhat anxious about changing my ways and then coming across to him as needy, which is never attractive. He's knows it's not in my nature to "people please" beyond a certain limit if it's not reciprocated. But then again, this hasn't worked for me in the past so I guess I need to try something new - but it's just seems so alien right now. 

With the counselling thing, years back I made an appointment for us and ended up having to go on my own. Conversely, he happily attended a sex therapist appointment!!! What does that say?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I did was I first concentrated on my H, not LBing him and meeting ENs, for about 3 or 4 months. Really concentrated on it. He DID lap it up. But his attitude changed a lot, too. After awhile he started being happy to come home, expecting to not be miserable. It's after that period, where he starts feeling safe and hopeful around you, that you can bring up your own issues. By then, he hopefully is ready to hear it, and WANTS you to be happy.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Yep. :iagree: You’re still focusing on the negative  You want to start the discussion by talking about faults. Even though the LB questionnaire is about that very thing, the concept is so much more. It’s about using the tools to improve the marriage overall. I want to be the best wife I can be. I want to have the best marriage I can have. I truly want these things and will do what it takes to get them. It’s not needy to want to please your husband and vice versa. That is a normal, healthy desire in a marriage. What motivation is there to stay in a marriage that is not satisfying? 

I know what you mean about the concept feeling alien. For me, it was very hard to open up (and it is still hard to remain open) but I just keep reminding myself of the rewards that come along with it. If it were easy there wouldn’t be a 50% divorce rate. 

Basic psychology says that he will not just lap it up and give nothing in return. When he notices that you are making improvements it will at the very least help him to have a better attitude around you. It will make the space you share a “safe” place and it may even help him to open up a little more and be open to making his own improvements. When someone is making you happy you want to return the favor, right? Because you're the one looking to make improvements you just have to decide to take the first step.


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