# How we rebuilt and fell back in love saving a 16 year marriage



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

My wife and I discussed separating numerous times at several of our worst points during months of soul crushing angry fighting caused by my taking her for granted and then her checking out emotionally during our 16 year marriage. 

Neither of us knew what was happening until it finally crumbled enough to completely destroy the seemingly undying love we had when we met. 

We chose not to separate despite huge fights often several times a day only because we read over 70% of separations result in divorce and we wanted to make it work because of how awesome our love once was. It was the biggest challenge of our lives but we stuck it out and turned our marriage and lost love around.

It took very deliberate committed steps of creating goodwill to get things fixed. 

GOOD WILL IS THE KEY TO SAVING AND REBUILDING LOST LOVE

Whatever the hell was going on that was causing us to want to be away from each other, we had to take lots of little steps in the right direction nearly every day and a few big steps here and there for 8 months to get to the good place we are now.

A few key things that helped create the vital goodwill needed to save our love from complete destruction

A. KISSING HELLO AND GOODBYE AND OCCASSIONAL HUGGING

My wife and I made an agreement to kiss hello and goodbye every time we left or arrived at the house without fail as a vitally important ingredient for rebuilding our love and connection regardless of how we were feeling about each other. 

The effort and level of commitment that my wife made to honor that agreement helped me to realize how lucky I am to have someone that is trying very hard to make things work for us, loves me enough to be as determined as she is to follow thru with our agreements, which in turn has increased my determination as well in order to honor her commitment to us the way she has been.

I am calling it goodwill that she has created by committing to those vital kisses even if it is a little inconvenient if I am in the attic or out back somewhere or down in the basement or upstairs or whatever when she has to come find me to give me that kiss hello or goodbye. I am so grateful that she is willing to do so with love in her heart instead of complaining about having to "find" me or "chase" me down wherever I am.

She honors our agreement whole heartedly, taking it farther, she does it with a smile and often a hug, and an occasionally a long hug. These felt like little deposits in the love bank each time they happened even if we were still squabbling a little when one of had to leave. We still honored our agreement despite the fighting even if it was difficult to extend that to each other at times, the commitment to do so reminded us what we were attempting to do each time we followed thru even during the bad times.

B. SEARCHNG FOR AND CLEARLY ADMITTING POINTS OF AGREEMENT

I found her positive reaction remarkable when we were talking or fighting, when I said "good point" or "that's a fair criticism" or something like that when she was telling me her thoughts about something that frustrated, disappointed or hurt her. 

It was almost a look of shock, relief, appreciation and love all combined into one inspiring moment where our love was residing.

I can not overstate the powerful goodness of those moments acknowledging common ground and agreement when we were having a heated discussion or even a calm discussion and how they nourished the rebuilding of our love for each other. 

She realized I wasn't impossible and I was excited to have another opportunity to fix something easy because it made sense to me. 

Over the next days, weeks and months I was able to generate goodwill by addressing those concern by either starting, stopping or adjusting something I was doing or saying to demonstrate my love for her. That gesture was recognized by her and put more deposits in the tank for our rebuilding our love

C. BEING VERY OPEN AND DIRECT INSTEAD OF MIND READING AND HOPE AND COVERT CONTRACTS

My wife and I used to hope for accurate mind-reading that never worked. We both had silent desires that we now very purposefully say out loud and clear so the other knows what we hope for, why we want those things from the other and how it makes us feel when it does or does not happen.

This gives us an opportunity to create more goodwill when we are able to honor those wishes. It also gives us an opportunity to let the other know if we wont be able to and why or when we can offer a rain check. 

It has been liberating and lovely to be able to love each other like that so efficiently and without any more ongoing disappointment or hurt feelings with covert contracts blowing up. We have made covert contracts overt by saying them all out loud and explaining all the details of those hopes and perhaps unwarranted or warranted expectations based on our beliefs and values to each other.

WE MUST ASK VERY CLEARLY WHAT EACH OF US WANTS FROM THE OTHER. ANY OTHER ARRANGEMENT IS ABSURD

E. BEING FUN, FUNNY, FLIRTY, SILLY

We both got waaaay too serious about everything. We had to lighten waaaay up at times and remain serious when appropriate but we have added the fun back in an energetic way to keep each other amused like we care again if the other person is enjoying our company

F. BE INTERESTING

Outside activities, interests, passions, new hobbies, anything new adds intrigue to the relationship 

G. BEING SUPPORTIVE OF BEING INTERESTING

My wife and I each started a few new hobbies while we each have been supportive of the other doing things without each other for some alone time and bonding with others. 

In the past the attitude was they were competition for time with each other that we did not want to give up when we were not busy. Now we know how important these outlets are to remain interesting and active and nourishing our souls with outside pursuits

H. AGREEING ON A TIME MOST NIGHTS WHEN WE WILL RENDEVOUZ IN THE BEDROOM

We both are busy people but the priority is still to connect and cuddle and touch and not instead be up all night working on whatever pursuits we have that keeps us from each other in the intimate hours when we could be spending time together physically intertwined 

I. COOKING TOGETHER

The powerful effect of erotic and loving effect of teamwork in the kitchen has been very enlightening and has resulted in elevating the good life in emotions, the joy of delicious food, teamwork spirit, mutual feelings of cooperation. We just love everything about cooking together in support of the other nourishing the family in delicious ways.

We also have tried new things that one or the other of us has wanted to try. Even if it doesn't turn out, it makes us each more interesting to the other. 

It also gives us a pursuit to talk about that is purely for enjoyment for both of us. 

It also gives us a chance to have an enjoyable casual talk

J. PICKING BATTLES

Each of us has decided we don't always have to alter the path or decisions of the other with intricate details. Instead we allow the other to handle things the way they see fit without questioning the little details we may have handled differently 

K. PEACE IN PARENTING

This is another area where we have followed J above picking battles and allowing some latitude without nitpicking the other.

L. MATCHING UP SEX DRIVE FREQUENCY

The HD/LD mismatch can destroy a marriage. We have come up with many techniques to address it which I have a post on in General Discussion 

M. ALL AROUND GIVE A DAMN MINDSET

We each know the other cares and wants to know what is and is not working and we discuss it without it being the dominant theme so we don't crowd out casual conversation that is also vital 

Hope this helps


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## Julius Beastcavern (May 11, 2015)

Great post. Did you have to 'fake it until you make it?'


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I liked a lot of your points but loved cooking together!&#55357;&#56842;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Julius Beastcavern said:


> Great post. Did you have to 'fake it until you make it?'


Although the cliché I used elsewhere on the forum today and you use above is rather glib, some of the elements of "fake it 'til you make it" are very helpful to rebuild goodwill and love in a marriage when it is in very short supply. 

Some of the helpful elements are 

1. Biting your tongue when the desire to contradict strikes you and give some things a pass
2. Picking your battles instead of jumping on every small discrepancy in your wishes
3. Actively and politely listening to a less than interesting story because you spouse is enjoying telling it
4. Putting some oomph into your effort to make the best of an activity that you would rather not be doing if it is for your spouse

I am not suggesting that any spouse continuously do things that they truly dislike for the sake of the other, but only that they not be the reason the experience is ruined for the one they love. If an activity requires a partner like tennis for example and you maybe don't enjoy the sport all that much but your spouse does, offer to sacrifice a little of your time to make it happen for them. Your spouse likely knows you don't like it very much and your effort is lovingly all for them so your positive attitude anyway establishes goodwill and appreciation that is needed to rebuild the love and goodwill. 

A positive attitude is a big part of the quality in quality time. 

I took a shopping stroll with my wife on Virginia Beach last week for mother's day. She didn't seem to be having much fun so I took the lead and we went into an arcade, won some tickets and got a silly prize with our tickets that we laughed about together for a half hour. SHe has later told the story about that impromptu arcade visit and silliness later to many friends and family members. Those stories she was telling had her lit up when she told them and had her friends laughing with her as well. The whole experience makes her life a little richer.

Then I suggested we get ice cream which she likes and then I steered her away from the shopping and out to the beach. Next I suggested a coffee at a place with a great atmosphere and an extra gorgeous view of the ocean.

When I took the lead even though it was "her day (mother's day) she loved it as if I unburdened her from making the decisions of what we would do on her day. 

I think my wife had a fear she was boring to me and herself and those thoughts had her feeling pressure of a good outcome to decide what we would do. My taking the lead unburdened her making those decisions and she was relieved and we had a nice time from my efforts to make the best of what we had to work with in the moment. 

Had I instead adopted a lousy attitude and did not do my best during this process, we would have squandered another opportunity to connect emotionally even in a romantic place on a special day. 

I also took a few of her inevitable cell phone calls from my daughter who was on the beach with some friends and handled them for her so she could relax more. 

Was I a little annoyed that my wife is predictable about wanting to stroll the shops and then not enjoy it? Sure. Did I let it show? Nope. Is that "faking it til we made it" out of that situation with some effort and an agreeable attitude. I think so and it paid off handsomely for both of us and it was clearly a conscious choice that I made to "fake it til we made it" thru together in a loving way


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## Julius Beastcavern (May 11, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> Although the cliché I used elsewhere on the forum today and you use above is rather glib, some of the elements of "fake it 'til you make it" are very helpful to rebuild goodwill and love in a marriage when it is in very short supply.
> 
> Some of the helpful elements are
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you and experienced some of the same feelings, good to know I am not alone!


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I liked a lot of your points but loved cooking together!


We are grateful to have stumbled upon the stunningly HIGH QUALITY time and countless memories cooking together creates. 

The emotional connection of the teamwork, exploration, experimentation, purpose, pleasure and nourishment that cooking involves is one of the best opportunities to rekindle romance even if one or both spouses are complete culinary dopes in the kitchen. 

Even the laughter from failures is an aphrodisiac.

I can not stress enough, the opportunities to connect at the stove and mixing bowl. 

It is so easy, the opportunities are plentiful, necessary, can be low key or a huge undertaking and on the most base level is fulfilling a basic need for survival provided to your loved one with your own hands. 

Cooking together is so erotic. If you do it right, you are licking things of each other and moaning and the deliciousness and raw pleasure. 

If you have to fight, have a food fight. They are hysterically silly and delicious memory makers.

:lol:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

We do cook together on occasion. But zero on nearly all the rest 

It's a good list, the kind that makes me wonder about what a normal marriage really is all about...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Those are very good points. It's a good reminder to keep trying, even if you feel things are going well. DH and I try to kiss before we leave each other but sometimes I forget. DH had to remind me the other day, and I'm glad he did, and that he wasn't annoyed about me forgetting.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

This is a VERY good post. I wonder if this is better than doing a 180 on a failing marriage. It seems to be the opposite of the 180.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

People fall in love for a reason. Generally they choose to fall out of love rather than make it work. This thread shows what it means to work on staying in love.


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## ptomczyk11 (Feb 9, 2015)

Great post, very inspiring...It definitely gave me a lot to think about my current situation!



thread the needle said:


> L. MATCHING UP SEX DRIVE FREQUENCY
> 
> The HD/LD mismatch can destroy a marriage. We have come up with many techniques to address it which I have a post on in General Discussion


Can you please paste the URL link to this other post your wrote?

Thank you!


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> This is a VERY good post. I wonder if this is better than doing a 180 on a failing marriage. It seems to be the opposite of the 180.


There is not a one size fits all method for fixing marriages. You need to address the problem with the method. The 180 is meant to better oneself by changing focus and creating a vacuum which can act to spur desire. It works well to correct being clingy and trying too hard such that it repells a spouse. 

thread the needles approach addresses negative interaction by assuming the spouse means well and validating them. This then creates goodwill and decreases negative interaction. The other points of his post create bonding through touch and sex to trigger oxytocin. The 180 doesn't help with bonding. It helps one become more attractive and helps the other see what they are missing.

In my marriage I used a combination to both to set my marriage back on course. My problem was I had become unattractive couch potato to my wife that demanded too much sex and interacted negatively too much. I did a mini-180 and used the time when we used to have sex to go out and exercise. This helped balance the HD/LD and made me more attractive especially when I started up my old hobby. The negative interaction was still there and I addressed that by assuming the best out of any of her actions or words. As thread said I started to create good will. This in turn creates an environment of trust where it is easier to discuss basic needs. Goodwill enables better communication which in turn can result in more needs being met.

Excellent post thread the needle!


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> This is a VERY good post. I wonder if this is better than doing a 180 on a failing marriage. It seems to be the opposite of the 180.


Depends on the situation. To do what thread the needle is advocating, there has to be at least a glimmer of good will on the other side.

If she's mentally checked out completely, all that is left to do is the 180. But you do it entirely for you, not for her. Deep down, I don't think the 180 is even designed to create onother chance for the couple (I started a thread on this topic once). Reading on TAM prooves it hardly ever does. But it gets YOU back on track, if well executed.

Sorry for the thread jack OP. Great post!


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## j1974 (Oct 9, 2014)

thread the needle said:


> GOOD WILL IS THE KEY TO SAVING AND REBUILDING LOST LOVE
> 
> A. KISSING HELLO AND GOODBYE AND OCCASSIONAL HUGGING
> 
> ...


.. so happy i came across this thread .. so many points you made have hit home .. my H and I are 6 mos into our reconciliation saving our almost 19 years of marriage .. H was ready to walk away and almost did before it hit like a ton of bricks that me/us and our family was worth saving and fighting for

let's just say 2014 was a horrible year for us and one i know both of us will be happy to forget .. but we didn't get to where we were last year overnight, it was years of neglect on both of our parts

i will admit though, i know we are still on a long road bc there are definitely things you mentioned we need to work on .. i never want us to get "comfortable" and neglect each other again, but several of your points made are exactly what we are doing to rebuild our love and we really need to incorporate and work on others

neither of us want to dwell on the past but move forward and be better .. but we really haven't talked about where we are right now, i think on my part bc i am terrified .. talking last year just sent me further into depression ..

C. BEING VERY OPEN AND DIRECT INSTEAD OF MIND READING AND HOPE AND COVERT CONTRACTS

WE MUST ASK VERY CLEARLY WHAT EACH OF US WANTS FROM THE OTHER. ANY OTHER ARRANGEMENT IS ABSURD

definitely need to work on this one .. at least on my party i know i am trying to mind read .. being direct is exactly what i need to work on .. and it's not that i know he won't be receptive, it again is just me not being ashamed and able to forgive myself for how we got to where we did in our marriage

but i love this post! keep up the good work!


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