# TO all the cheating wives, can you explain how you felt about your LS while cheating?



## 8yearscheating

I am reconciling with wife who cheated for 20 years. Everyhting i remember from those years has become a trigger that forces me to ask myself did she ever really love or was I just the father of her children and a breadwinner. I feel like she hated me 90% of the time to be able to do this. How else could she climb in bed with someone else.

How did you feel about your LS. Did he ever cross your mind when you were with the OM? Did you delude yourself into thinking you deserved it and it didn't matter how he felt or that he would never find out so it didn't matter. Did you feel he (the LS) deserved to be hurt for what he did to you?

If your reconciling, how do you feel now?

I never quit loving my wife and remained loyal for 26 years in spite of many opportunities and times when I knew my love was unrequited. I know I had angry outbursts with her that were disrespectful. She claims she headed for him everytime they happened. I got control of those outbursts 15 years ago. SO I feel the balance of those years were only justifications on her part. Even the start was a justification, she should have worked through it with me, not him.


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## Lazarus

You raise some interesting questions. 

When one is given trust and then goes onto trash and violate it with licentious behaviour, a lot of soul searching ought to happen, particularly by the DS. But also for the LS too. 

If there are problems in a marriage or long term relationship, seeking a solution should come from within, never outside a relationship. The pain and hurt is not worth it. 

When opportunity presents itself, the decent thing would be to always consider how the LS would feel. Out of respect for the LS (and themselves), any opportunity presented should never go any further. Alas, if anything, infidelity seems to highlight a weakness in the DS' character and the utterly selfish me, me, me, gene. 

For the LS it is like sleeping indirectly with all the partners of the DS' Affair Partner. It totally devalues, debases anything you thought you ever had. Even after DDay exposure the lies can keep pouring out. One wonders if it is ever possible to believe anything a cheater says because being plausible is a key skill learned during an affair. 

Why can't the DS just come clean, once. It would make reconciliation so much easier. I hope you can find the answers here as many people give great insight on both sides of the fence.


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## JrsMrs

I'll bite.
Honestly, thinking of my spouse at the time mostly made me sad. The things I was getting from the 'other guy' were things I wanted from my husband, and that lead to a lot of mixed feelings. While in theory I was getting what I wanted, I really wasn't, because I never wanted to get those things from anyone else. I wanted them from him. It was kind of like getting a crappy second place prize, that only reminds you that you didn't get gold. At times I was happy to have a medal at all, but mostly it just felt like a poor substitute for what I really wanted.
So, yeah, there was sadness, and frustration, and moments where I told myself that he didn't deserve my fidelity, and got mad at him. But no, he didn't 'deserve' that any more than I deserved to feel unloved/unattractive/uninteresting in my marriage. Never, never have I felt hatred for him. More hurt at what I felt was unrequited love.
I don't think you can condense all those dynamic feelings into a single word. There is a lot more going on in a situation that that, and it is hard to even articulate.


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## 8yearscheating

Thank you JRSMrs. Your honesty is appreciated. From my perspective, I have a very hard time looking back on the last 20 years because it feels like she hated me. I always believed that true love was unconditional and never wavered - the way I felt in spite of what was missing from her to me. If it's not that, then it is hate because my feelings never changed and her infideliity was the same as saying I don't need you, go away. If she had said that, then she would have showing her last bit of love. By not telling me so I could control my own life, she was saying I don't care about you and want to hurt you - hate.

Being self center is he same thing and infidelity is the ultimate expression of being self centered - all about her. That is not a marriage.


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## TNgirl232

I'm brave  - 

There are different types of affairs, so I can only speak to my experience. I had been with my ex since I was 16, we had a child at 18, got married at 21. My ex was controlling and emotionally abusive. I had very low self esteem. When I got into the real world (away from the small town where I grew up), and a co-worker started paying attention to me, my thoughts and ideas were valid, I wasn't stupid or not good enough, I feel hard. I felt like yes I did deserve to be selfish. All my life I had been living up to someone else's expectations and never quite measuring up. I got tired of it and decided to do something that made me happy. It wasn't intended to hurt my ex (and it hasn't, as I never told him and he has no idea). Our marriage had less conflict and fighting during that time than it had at any other point. My current husband is aware of the whole thing, and doesn't judge. He says its impossible to judge someone's actions when you didn't know them or the situation they were in.

Now - did I learn something? Yes. I will never go back down that path. My ex cheated on my (some would say Karma) but honestly it didn't really bother me that much. It was the path out the door. Now, I see how much it hurt our families, friends, etc. Its not worth all that. If your that unhappy, you need to say something well beyond you get to that point (and I did try with my ex, but he always would say "you aren't going to make this my fault" so I just quit trying to talk to him because it was my fault anyway. He constantly accused me of having an affair , long before I ever did).

Now - I'm fairly sure my story and your wife's story have very little in common. But its the only experience I've got.


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## the guy

8,
This is what she told me so take it for what it worth (she'll be home from work so I'll let her responde for her self latter) If any of you know my story it will make alot more sense, for those of you that dont I recommend you read the guy with the cheating wife 1st.


My wife felt like I didnt care but she still had to keep it secret for the safety of the OM, so the excitment of being scared was a turn on.

She felt I was doing the same thing, there were alot of red flags on my end so some revenge was there

my wife felt sad that it was self preservetion in order to get attention and validation she had to get it from OM. the man she loved was there for that.

It felt good these young guys doughted on her, there were guys that wanted her.


She felt mean, some OM wanted her to leave me and she had to tell them what she thought about guys that slept with married women, and it was just a thing. 

The sex was good they kissed her and said sweet things to her, it was soft and loving. That was the best part of all of it.


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## 8yearscheating

Guy,
In my case, we had our troubles but I stayed loyal and always kept trying to work things with her. She would run from arguments, shut down and fester on them. Today she brought up something that happened 18 years ago and I asked her if she I thought I would act the same way. It was the death of a friend of hers and I was out of the country on a three week business trip. I tried hard to spend all the time on the phone with her I could I could (precell phone and skype days) and even asked my boss if I could come home but he wouldn't let me because it wasn't a direct relative of hers. To this day she hasn't forgiven me for not being there for her. When I asked if she thought I would do the same thing today, she said "no, your secure enough in position now that you tell them you were going home and they wouldn't question you and you would be there for me". So her inability to work out these issues with me and let them go drove her infidelity. I told her today I felt our anniversary would now be the day we retook our vows, not our original wedding date. I don't think I can put my heart into celebrating something that ended 20 years ago. I was married and she wasn't. I told her part of my starting over and putting the past behind me was grieving over the loss of the woman I originally married and starting new with a new woman that would unconditionally love me, and would divorce me before cheating on me. I was starting new, new vows and new woman, not the one she has been for the last 20 years. I considered that person dead as well as that marriage, I was grieving over it just like losing a loved one and moving on with life. I also told her that I could never forget, only move forward until the pain of the loss dimmed with time and became less and less frequent. I also told her I was not asking for a license to make her feel bad, punish her or keep reliving the past. It would be my best effort to move on. But she had to realize I could not turn it off like a light switch. She would need to place me first when I was having problems and help me pull out. Just like I have always tried hard to do for her. She was real upset over that. We will see how feels after she has had time to think about it. Am I Asking too much? How else can I move forward?

Would love to hear your wife's direct opinion on my feelings and comments on how she felt.

Thanks for your help


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## the guy

8
Doing the renewal on Mar.26 our 20th anny.

I have the same feeling also and the grief of lossng a marriage and the woman I married, but I just believe we both will be in a better place from here on out.

I to wont forget but I refuse to let the negitivity bring me down, just one of my new boundries. 

I will not go through the3 rest of my life say wo as me, poor me , I want to learn from this and conquere it from ever happening again.

This cheating crap sucks so bad we just have to be better then all the negitivity it can bring. 

Good luck man love your wife, share, and have good sex. 

I do miss the rough sex though I realize it isn't healthy for my marraige I still miss it. and I didn't type this for miss guy to see

I be on with wife 7 pm Pacific (10 pm eastern)


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## the guy

I cheated and it felt good. I was good at what I did and always was early and didnt mind staying late. I often took it home with me.

As time went on I did it more and more. I felt as long as I could provide for my family I was doing the right thing. I felt the harder I did it the better off I would be.

Little did I know that the love of my life would have caused my wife to feel so neglected. 

Sometime I wish I was unemployeed.


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## Affaircare

I find it fairly sad that there would be a thread like this, asking DS to open up and be honest, and yet when they are, they are treated like this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html

This reminds me of what it's like in a marriage, pre-affair. "If only he/she had been HONEST with me and told me!" the loyal wails, and yet the DS *was* honest and *did* tell you and rather than hearing "Thank you for your honesty; those are tough words and they sting but let me think about them" what happened. Oh yeah--yelling, belittling, name-calling, angry explosions, and then the cold shoulder. Do you know what that teaches a disloyal spouse? NEVER, under any circumstance, tell the truth to your loyal because that is the reaction you'll get. 

Sooooo...I would be happy to tell you what I thought of my LS but you know what? I'm quite positive if I told the truth I would be treated like this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html. Nope. Sorry. Treat some DSs better first and I may consider actually answering.


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## Idontknownow

Affaircare said:


> I find it fairly sad that there would be a thread like this, asking DS to open up and be honest, and yet when they are, they are treated like this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html
> 
> This reminds me of what it's like in a marriage, pre-affair. "If only he/she had been HONEST with me and told me!" the loyal wails, and yet the DS *was* honest and *did* tell you and rather than hearing "Thank you for your honesty; those are tough words and they sting but let me think about them" what happened. Oh yeah--yelling, belittling, name-calling, angry explosions, and then the cold shoulder. Do you know what that teaches a disloyal spouse? NEVER, under any circumstance, tell the truth to your loyal because that is the reaction you'll get.
> 
> Sooooo...I would be happy to tell you what I thought of my LS but you know what? I'm quite positive if I told the truth I would be treated like this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html. Nope. Sorry. Treat some DSs better first and I may consider actually answering.


Actually my husband admits to not feeling he had the ability or his opinion wasn't worth sharing. Not just to me but since he was a child. He really was not raised that self expression was important or that he was worth listening to.
That feeling of not being able to open up along with being on a ship and feeling disconnected is what he says made him seek an emotional connection.


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## Affaircare

To keep my own personal cards very closely guarded, that can be part of it yeah. And then when the loyal says, "Just be honest" and you are...and the result is a week of the cold shoulder...or a week of being screamed at. I'm not dumb: lesson learned "NEVER tell the truth or you'll get this. Telling the truth IS NOT SAFE!" 

Okay the truth really can be hard to hear. I get that. But if someone trusts you enough to stick their neck out and really SAY the truth, even if it really hurt you like a slap on the face, at least say, "Well thank you for being honest. That hurt but I'm going to think before I respond." What does that teach? Here's the lesson: "The result of being honest is medium safe."


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## the guy

AC- feel like i've just been scolled, maybe I was getting alittle froggy b/c me and my W will be on latter, or I had a ax to grind, no at the very least feeling alittle sarcastic.


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## alphaomega

Affaircare said:


> I find it fairly sad that there would be a thread like this, asking DS to open up and be honest, and yet when they are, they are treated like this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html
> 
> This reminds me of what it's like in a marriage, pre-affair. "If only he/she had been HONEST with me and told me!" the loyal wails, and yet the DS *was* honest and *did* tell you and rather than hearing "Thank you for your honesty; those are tough words and they sting but let me think about them" what happened. Oh yeah--yelling, belittling, name-calling, angry explosions, and then the cold shoulder. Do you know what that teaches a disloyal spouse? NEVER, under any circumstance, tell the truth to your loyal because that is the reaction you'll get.
> 
> Sooooo...I would be happy to tell you what I thought of my LS but you know what? I'm quite positive if I told the truth I would be treated like this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html. Nope. Sorry. Treat some DSs better first and I may consider actually answering.



:iagree: Well said.


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## 8yearscheating

If your talking to me Affaircare, I do tell my wife thank you for being honest and do not tear into her when we discuss the affair. I am allowed to voice my feelings - if I don't then I'm going down the path she did when she held it in. I did have some angry outbursts with her but they were the exception and not the rule. She also had hers and I might add much much more frequently than I because she has had problems with her thyroid, epstein bar and recurring depression. I don't expect her to be eprfect and would let it pass when it happened. Everyone has their moments. If your referring to my posts about the girl who is cheating and not telling her husband, I think that is wrong under any circumstance. If my wife had been honest with me 20 years ago, we either would have worked through it or divorced then. I never see a reason for someone to support disloyalty. Like I said in my post, being supportive in that situation is like offering an alcoholic a drink, it's enabling and not supportive.


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## 8yearscheating

Also Affaircare - this site strongly supports the idea of outing to everyone the affair for LS. Why wouldn't you suggest she do the same?


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## ddindiana

I think alot of affairs happen because of the people or friends our spouses start hanging out with. My ex wife started hanging out with some loosers from work that were in bad marriage or had been married several times and i think she was seeing them going out having fun and staying out all hours of the night and she was not. Then a piece of s..t looser came into the picture and it was all down hill from there.


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## michzz

Affaircare said:


> Okay the truth really can be hard to hear. I get that. But if someone trusts you enough to stick their neck out and really SAY the truth, even if it really hurt you like a slap on the face, at least say, "Well thank you for being honest. That hurt but I'm going to think before I respond." What does that teach? Here's the lesson: "The result of being honest is medium safe."


I don't think you have fully worked out what you did when you cheated and are surprisingly nonempathetic to betrayed spouses.

I'm pretty sure you know the stages of shock, outrage, and grief involved in finding out the truth. 

Worrying about the safety of revelation? Barring physical violence, there has to be more spine on the part of cheater than you wish be displayed.

To me, revealing the truth is the right thing to do and in the long term has the best result for both spouses.

In the short term? You bet that a cheater is going to get their lumps. 

Price of cheating.


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## Dowjones

Affaircare said:


> I find it fairly sad that there would be a thread like this, asking DS to open up and be honest, and yet when they are, they are treated like this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html
> 
> This reminds me of what it's like in a marriage, pre-affair. "If only he/she had been HONEST with me and told me!" the loyal wails, and yet the DS *was* honest and *did* tell you and rather than hearing "Thank you for your honesty; those are tough words and they sting but let me think about them" what happened. Oh yeah--yelling, belittling, name-calling, angry explosions, and then the cold shoulder. Do you know what that teaches a disloyal spouse? NEVER, under any circumstance, tell the truth to your loyal because that is the reaction you'll get.
> 
> Sooooo...I would be happy to tell you what I thought of my LS but you know what? I'm quite positive if I told the truth I would be treated like this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html. Nope. Sorry. Treat some DSs better first and I may consider actually answering.


AC, I agree with a whole lot of this. If I had listened to her, truly listened to her, she wouldn't have talked to the co-worker and none of this would be happening now. I KNOW she never wanted another man. I KNOW she was at her wits end. I KNOW all of this now, I SHOULD have know it then, and I would have, if I had just listened.. When she fought him off and ran away from him, when he tried to have sex with her. She was running as hard as she could, back to me. The ****-storm that followed and our reconciliation is based on her telling me all of the truth, and me (finally) having the brains to listen. I can truly say now that we are in a far better place than we were last fall. Our therapist says we act like newlyweds. I will never shut her out again, because I KNOW she will never love another. We have proven through fire that she is all mine and I am all hers.


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## the guy

Dowjone,
in one word amen!


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## Affaircare

For those who asked--the guy and 8years--no I wasn't speaking about you personally and specifically in your individual circumstances, but meant it moreso like a 'Hollywood Wake Up' slap. A person can not, on the one hand, say things like "Please tell me the truth" and "I really would like to know..." and then, on the other hand, when they received the honest answer, respond with blaming, yelling, name-calling OR the cold shoulder...it is inconsistent. Do you want to know the real, live truth? REALLY? Then guess what? On the occasion you're going to hear things that are different than what you want to hear, things that are painful, things that are even provocative (in the sense of "provoking you to anger"). EVERY SINGLE TIME someone is honest with you, you have an opportunity to teach then that honesty is safe or unsafe. 

I'm using this an an opportunity to hold a mirror up to your face and say, "What do you see?" Because what I see is one instance where 8years specifically asked for disloyals to open up and risk saying out loud what they felt about their LS while cheating...and in the thread right beneath his, he was joining in the mob mentality of roasting a disloyal who was being honest. 

And the really FUN part about this is that when I hold up the mirror to say "WHOA! Look at what you're doing. Which is it?" the result I get is that I have unresolved issues from michzzz and I must be siding with the disloyal in the thread who wants to keep it a secret from her spouse.  Kinda humorous, isn't it? If you review my writing, any of it, ever, you'll see that I have very,VERY, *VERY* consistently always advocated for the truth. I don't ever suggest that 'it depends on the circumstances' or 'each situation is different about whether to tell the truth or not'. Every single time--whether it's to their spouse, their family, their employer or their children--I support and encourage the bringing the truth to the light of day. Hiding is never, ever the answer. 

But don't you suppose there is a way to speak to that disloyal lady that is respectful, understanding, and ENCOURAGING her to do the right thing--maybe even offering to help her do the right thing--rather than degrading into name-calling, being judgmental, and saying "I couldn't help myself." :bsflag: 

Sooooo....again for those who are inconsistent, don't look to me as an alter at which to lay your blame, because I'm not accepting it. Look at your own actions. Nothing personal, but if you piled on that poor disloyal who will NEVER COME BACK and will never post again--and thus will never get the help she needed to actually do the right thing and end her affair--don't blame me! Okay ya made a mistake. What does a grown up do when they made a mistake? Admit it, apologize, learn to do differently, grow from it. That's all. And I don't think I'm the one who would need an apology. 

Finally, just so you know, michzzz, my exH left me with two small children to live with his wistress--he disappeared and we found him about a month later in another state. I cried for three days straight, 24/7 until my eyes-swelled shut from the salt of the tears. When he left, he destroyed our business (so I had no job or way to support us) and I discovered he had been using bill-money and mortgage-money to pay for his wistress--we were 3 months behind on everything, it was all being shut off, and I lost my husband, my family, my business, and was on the verge of losing my home and the kids and I being homeless. So do not tell me I don't understand how an LS feels. I have been there and I have paid my dues. I don't mind if we disagree entirely on every single aspect of life and marriage--after all you have your opinion and if you can explain your reasoning I'll even listen with an open mind. But you do not get to tell me what I have and have not been through or what I do and do not feel. I will not accept that.


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## michzz

Affaircare said:


> Finally, just so you know, michzzz, my exH left me with two small children to live with his wistress--he disappeared and we found him about a month later in another state. I cried for three days straight, 24/7 until my eyes-swelled shut from the salt of the tears. When he left, he destroyed our business (so I had no job or way to support us) and I discovered he had been using bill-money and mortgage-money to pay for his wistress--we were 3 months behind on everything, it was all being shut off, and I lost my husband, my family, my business, and was on the verge of losing my home and the kids and I being homeless. So do not tell me I don't understand how an LS feels. I have been there and I have paid my dues. I don't mind if we disagree entirely on every single aspect of life and marriage--after all you have your opinion and if you can explain your reasoning I'll even listen with an open mind. But you do not get to tell me what I have and have not been through or what I do and do not feel. I will not accept that.


I stand by what I wrote quoted in context below with what I commented upon.

I didn't bash you, I didn't say whip a cheater forever more. What I did say is clear.

A cheater finally saying the truth, that is all well and good. It is the best they can do given the string of crappy things done prior to doing so.

Why is it that a betrayed person is to be so in control of their emotional response but a cheater can be so out of control in EVERYTHING?

I don't buy it.

I think it is healthy to express that pain and shock and for the cheater to experience it. There really is strength in seeing what they have done to another person, someone they vowed to love and honor.

And you know I am not advocating taking physical and verbal abuse. Don't even be confused about that at all.

And as long as we're trying for clarity, what do you mean by saying you've put in your dues?

Did you cheat before or after this sad episode with your ex-husband? I'll hold off my response based on how you answer this.

If you re-read what I wrote (commented below) I do not see how you see this as upsetting unless the first sentence is as I state it.




Affaircare said:


> Okay the truth really can be hard to hear. I get that. But if someone trusts you enough to stick their neck out and really SAY the truth, even if it really hurt you like a slap on the face, at least say, "Well thank you for being honest. That hurt but I'm going to think before I respond." What does that teach? Here's the lesson: "The result of being honest is medium safe."





michzz said:


> I don't think you have fully worked out what you did when you cheated and are surprisingly nonempathetic to betrayed spouses.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you know the stages of shock, outrage, and grief involved in finding out the truth.
> 
> Worrying about the safety of revelation? Barring physical violence, there has to be more spine on the part of cheater than you wish be displayed.
> 
> To me, revealing the truth is the right thing to do and in the long term has the best result for both spouses.
> 
> In the short term? You bet that a cheater is going to get their lumps.
> 
> Price of cheating.


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## 8yearscheating

If you call that roasting a DS, how would tell a friend in non roasting terms that what they are doiing is totally wrong, completely self centered and extremely hurtful to their innocent spouse (he is not being disloyal)? Same would apply to alcoholic. A good friend would only be sympathetic to the fact that she needs help and encourage her to get it. In any case the first step is ownership of the problem and believing they have a problem. There are no kind ways to open a persons eyes when then are so deluded. If I was doing what she is, I would hope someone would "hollywood slap" me back to reality. A reminder that this is not the forst time I have DS to give their feedback. A majority if not all have taken the ownership of their affair.


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## MsLonely

When I contacted the OM, I felt confused & sad myself.

The sad part was, brutally honest speaking, I'm married & I can't love him although I desperatedly want to love him (the OM).

I couldn't commit to him with a bright future, because I'm a married woman. With heart aching, I encouraged him (the OM) to look for single woman and make a real gf. I pushed him away when things got serious.

I was actually heart broken but because my love was true. I wanted him to get what he deserves. I wanted him to be happy with a correct choice.

The confusing part was, I can't get divorced but I can't stop thinking of the OM. I can't get divorced because of my daughter.

My husband was being very ignorant to me. Sexual life was dead. There's no intimacy. There's family love but there's no passionate love.

In fact, I told him (my husband) honestly, I'm having an EA, and it's very painful. I wanted our marriage to work but he continued to be ignorant until I found this forum.

So my feelings were pretty miserable when I thought about my husband.

I didn't go out and cheat on my husband physically. I tried to hold the horses as much as I could.

The EA has gone. My marriage problems have been solved mostly.

This is just my response to this thread.


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## 8yearscheating

Thanks MSlonely. I do understand how fertile ground can be created by problems in the marriage and I am working hard to change the things that caused my wife to be so unhappy with me. I just can't seem to get my arms around how she could keep up this PA for 20 years without truly hating me.


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## Sandeep

8yearscheating said:


> I am reconciling with wife who cheated for 20 years. Everyhting i remember from those years has become a trigger that forces me to ask myself did she ever really love or was I just the father of her children and a breadwinner. I feel like she hated me 90% of the time to be able to do this. How else could she climb in bed with someone else.
> 
> How did you feel about your LS. Did he ever cross your mind when you were with the OM? Did you delude yourself into thinking you deserved it and it didn't matter how he felt or that he would never find out so it didn't matter. Did you feel he (the LS) deserved to be hurt for what he did to you?
> 
> If your reconciling, how do you feel now?
> 
> I never quit loving my wife and remained loyal for 26 years in spite of many opportunities and times when I knew my love was unrequited. I know I had angry outbursts with her that were disrespectful. She claims she headed for him everytime they happened. I got control of those outbursts 15 years ago. SO I feel the balance of those years were only justifications on her part. Even the start was a justification, she should have worked through it with me, not him.


Mate, I had to sign up and post.

I can't imagine the massive dent your self esteem has taken.

I also cannot fathom for the life of me why you would disrespect yourself to the point that you would put up with this.

I don't know how this will work out for you, but I know that TWO things will likely happen.

1. I took back a cheating spouse. It ate me up inside. I couldn't get past it. I couldn't make love to her without thinking of it. The relationship was over, I just couldn't accept it.

2. This may or may not happen to you. But personally, even though I took my spouse back, I began revenge cheating on her like crazy. 
Two, three women at a time on the go. I couldn't stop myself. I started sleeping with women behind her back like crazy.
She was 46 at the time, and I ended up dumping her for a hot little 23 year old (I was 40).
So that's how it ended.

I ended up LOVING cheating on her. I never used to be like that. I felt like every woman I gave a screaming orgasm was me claiming my manhood back, and I suppose that's what it was in the end - I used all those women to re inflate my manhood. I absolutely loved getting revenge like that.

You seem to be blaming yourself - that's bad. Sounds like your spouse just used the marriage trouble as an excuse to cheat for many years.

My cheating ex is now alone, her looks fading, and she now understands that there's less out there in the mate department than she originally thought.

She resents the hell out of me because the 23 year old, but c'est la vie I suppose.

Honestly, your relationship is over mate. Move on and avoid the drama I described above. Man to man, I would say get your self respect back and move on from this nightmare. I would. There is no more emasculating act for a man to go through than what you have described. Dear God man!


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## MsLonely

8yearscheating said:


> Thanks MSlonely. I do understand how fertile ground can be created by problems in the marriage and I am working hard to change the things that caused my wife to be so unhappy with me. I just can't seem to get my arms around how she could keep up this PA for 20 years without truly hating me.


Your wife does love you as her family.
Love has many types I think.
Compassion
Love for Family
Love for Pets
Love for sex
Family love, for example, your sisters, you love them doesn't mean you want to have sex with them.
Your wife does not hate you totally because she still loves you as her family.
She just lacks of passionate for you, the love that leads to sex.
Because she gave away that passionate love & sexual interests to the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

You are correct, she still loved me as a good father and provider. But not as her husband. That is the painful part. What is a marriage without love (unconditional) for your husband?


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## Lazarus

MsLonely said:


> .
> Because she gave away that passionate love & sexual interests to the OM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What if the OM is abusive and treating the DS like a commodity? 

Would you feel good about having given away that passionate love and sexual interest to the OM if he is on a revenge mission enjoying playing the field with one, two, three or more women all at the same time?

Maybe the OM is taking particular delight in it all, especially if it is a married woman that is involved.

LS tried and tested and convenient for DS. OM trying out DS and finding it all rather convenient.

Maybe a DS and an OP have naturally abusive personalities? Perhaps both are users of each other?

Is infidelity a cry for help by DS with a weak personality and low self esteem or simply a coward's way out of facing head on the truth. Cheaters revenge? Are these thoughts that go through the minds of a DS when cheating on their LS with the OP. It could be a case of both DS and LS being used by the OM.

Infidelity is a fools game. It is terribly destructive, dangerous and crazy.


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## 8yearscheating

After more discussions with her and your comments Mslonely, I have begun to take the approach that the reasoning she used is only important in terms of the future. She needs to understand why her heart kept shifting gears between the two of us and towards the OM. SHe tells me the OM was usually only 1 time epr month with higher interaction times and times where it stopped for a period of months. She runs from conflict with me. Telling me when we hit a sticking point she would literally start to not like me and that is when she headed toward the OM. She is trying hard to tell me all of her feelings right now and we are working through them. SOme of them, I've told her will have to be incremental like my bad habit of going over something multiple times. I explained sometimes it takes that for me for me to get everything through my thick skull and put it away. I told her I have a lot I'm working through and I need to focus on getting past the anxiety and fear I frequently have that something is still going on. I suggested was she can can help me stop the spiral into the abyss by responding faster when I voice those fears and talking me down. I have stopped discussing things when I am angry and have worked out a way for me to let her know when I need space to calm down without her feeling like I'm totally pissed at her. 

On the feeling she hated me, I asked she focus with her IC on understanding better why she would cycle in and out of control and in and out of depression - I think the two were closely related. I told her I stops obsessing about it and wait for understand better why and what she can do to prevent it in the future. I added that it is important for me to have a better explanation from her eventually for closure. For now I've shelved thsoe fears and am focusing on keeping things as loving and warm as I can. The sex part is the biggest question in my mind. 

SO things are going well and MS lonely, you gave me a lot to think about.

Other DSs, can you explain your emotions while in the depths of the A for your husband?


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## the guy

8, here's what my wife says... theguys wife, "my husband didnt want a divorce and i still loved him. Although he says hes the LS... he quit loving me 17 years ago. He had an EA with a woman who didnt want to sleep with him but enjoyed toying with him even tho he had a prenant wife at home. He broke my heart so many times with neglect and abuse. I still loved him and wanted to keep my family together but I could no longer live without kissing and love making. My husband only cared about his career and his coworkers. He only had sex with me in an abusive manner. He still didnt want a divorce. I didnt trust that he even loved me or cared. He pushed me away and didnt care what I did or who I was with. Should he get a brownie button for being the loyal spouse? Both of us were disloyal.... Everyone sins.... whats your sin? I was taught to forgive 7 times 70. I was just waiting for him to love me again. I never gave myself the delusion that the other men were going to replace my husband. They were just banaids on my broken heart. I no longer believed anyone would love me and I could not love myself. I was sick with depression and chose to numb myself by using men for kissing, cuddling, and sex."

I'm back, well here it is, her side, is there remorse I believe so (we'll address that on someone else's thread. The point to 8's thread was what they DS felt about the LS while they cheated. I beleive my wife explained why, and there is a belief that she didn't feel anything while in the act. I'm sure some would think it was for revenge, some may argue various other issues. What ever the real thoughts that were going through her mind...well she was feeling good, as disillusioned as it was she may have felt better about her self.

By it's definition a bandaid is there to help you heal....well in her case I think it was meant to take the pain away, in her case.. more of a pain releiver then a dressing for a wound.

Bottom line, we both own this sh*tty behavior and we wear it as a reminder how bad things can get if you both don't pull your heads out of our [email protected]@...together and make a change together.

We have now agreed that its time to heal and love each other.


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## 8yearscheating

Sex an loving where never an issue with her - except when she went to the OM and in retospect, that was only time she disconnected from me. She called it going back and forth. MY sin, my job REQUIRED I travel heavily. SOmetimes 2-3 weeks. She has said that and feelings that I didn't care enough to change my job or having had an argument that caused her to pull away were generally her logic. WHen I travelled and our kids were younger it was hard on her and I constantly kept in contact and told her howmuch I missed her and loved her. I obviously wasn't there to help. SHe never asked that I quit my job and never complained in the latter years about my travel - obvioulsy because she had the OM. In the arly years, I always got the impression she had a hard time with me gone but acccepted it as part of my job. It's the duration that kills me and the fact I haven't travelled in the last 3 years and it still went on. AM I a saint - no. But that doesn't excuse her behaviour.


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## Simon Phoenix

Sandeep said:


> Mate, I had to sign up and post.
> 
> I can't imagine the massive dent your self esteem has taken.
> 
> I also cannot fathom for the life of me why you would disrespect yourself to the point that you would put up with this.
> 
> I don't know how this will work out for you, but I know that TWO things will likely happen.
> 
> 1. I took back a cheating spouse. It ate me up inside. I couldn't get past it. I couldn't make love to her without thinking of it. The relationship was over, I just couldn't accept it.
> 
> 2. This may or may not happen to you. But personally, even though I took my spouse back, I began revenge cheating on her like crazy.
> Two, three women at a time on the go. I couldn't stop myself. I started sleeping with women behind her back like crazy.
> She was 46 at the time, and I ended up dumping her for a hot little 23 year old (I was 40).
> So that's how it ended.
> 
> I ended up LOVING cheating on her. I never used to be like that. I felt like every woman I gave a screaming orgasm was me claiming my manhood back, and I suppose that's what it was in the end - I used all those women to re inflate my manhood. I absolutely loved getting revenge like that.
> 
> You seem to be blaming yourself - that's bad. Sounds like your spouse just used the marriage trouble as an excuse to cheat for many years.
> 
> My cheating ex is now alone, her looks fading, and she now understands that there's less out there in the mate department than she originally thought.
> 
> She resents the hell out of me because the 23 year old, but c'est la vie I suppose.
> 
> Honestly, your relationship is over mate. Move on and avoid the drama I described above. Man to man, I would say get your self respect back and move on from this nightmare. I would. There is no more emasculating act for a man to go through than what you have described. Dear God man!


Man, it's as if you just read my mind. That's all I've thought about since discovering my wife's affair a few months ago. I took her back and I spend each day regretting it. 

And finding about all the lucid details in MC didn't help. Neither did reading the texts and e-mails that the OM's wife later discovered that I didn't. It is as if the two of them got to have their fun and get to keep the memories of their fling fresh in their heads until one of them can get away from us (again) while I'm looking like some dolt who left his house keys in the rental car he just turned in. 

I keep saying that I'll be the 'bigger' person but I'll always feel as if I drew the short straw. She gets the guy who makes a more concerted effort to cater to her 'needs' while I get to sleep next to a wife who had her husband drive the family out of town just so she can sneak out and get some on the side. What lesson was really learned in that, other than showing your kids that it's okay to screw someone over if he/she's whipped enough?

Imagine some blast-from-the-past showing up and within a few months, doing your wife to the point of her saving naked pics of his Johnson in her Yahoo account (even after saying she erased the photo). Yet I'm supposed to be the one sending roses and candy on Valentine's Day? I'm supposed to just let that go like water off a duck's back? I'm sorry, but some things are just much harder to get over than others. It's no small wonder why this is such a deal-breaker for so many folks.

But all that said, there will a day when this is repaid with interest. There is something about having some self-esteem and pride. I won't stand for being played for a fool like that. Hell, I'm not even mad at my wife anymore; but I will get even...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Ya that thought has crossed my mind, put not only do I have boundries on what I will and will not tolorarate with my marraige, but I have boundries with my feelings. I will not stop smiling infront of others, I will be positive in how I feel. I will not tolorate this infidelity crap to bring me down b/c she had her fun or i could have done this or that. I too have to force those dark thought out everyday. But dam it I will not let this sh*t beat me.

It not how we get knocked down that matters, it's how we get back up that counts.


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## Simon Phoenix

the guy said:


> Ya that thought has crossed my mind, put not only do I have boundries on what I will and will not tolorarate with my marraige, but I have boundries with my feelings. I will not stop smiling infront of others, I will be positive in how I feel. I will not tolorate this infidelity crap to bring me down b/c she had her fun or i could have done this or that. I too have to force those dark thought out everyday. But dam it I will not let this sh*t beat me.
> 
> It not how we get knocked down that matters, it's how we get back up that counts.


I agree and I choose to get up swinging. Playing this 'good guy' role while she still basks in his afterglow is for the birds. It's high time to focus on me; no one else will...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

If you guys are talking revenge sex - take it someplace else. I won't stoop to the level she did or I am no better than she was. I am starting fresh and plan to stick to the new vows I and SHE are taking. If she trays again, then it will be divorce. You revenge addicts will end up old and alone.


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## jamesa

8yearscheating said:


> You revenge addicts will end up old and alone.


I don't agree with revenge sex either, it seems to me that this kind of tit-for-tat attitude starts wars. 

Having said that, I think your fear of growing old alone is telling. In order to have a good marriage you and your spouse both need to *know* that you would be able to build a life without him/her if you should split. 

Having too much or too little power in a relationship is dangerous. Don't be driven by a fear of being left alone as this will diminish the respect your spouse has for you and, more importantly the respect you have for yourself. 

Believe that you will be fine without her, that your decision to be with her is a positive choice, not one made out of fear that she is the best you can do or that you won't find anyone else.


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## 8yearscheating

My decisions were not made out of fear of being alone. I reached the point of come what may a long time ago and if she wasn't working so hard with me to make the M work, I would be done with it and she knows it. But commitment MUST be strong. Revenge sex will only lead to more problems and a very high likelyhood the M will fail. It is the worst kind on punishment you can inflict. It is more likely to drive the WS back to her old ways. To not admit to yourself that security in along term relationship that allows you to grow old together is not important is also a lie to yourself. I don't let it make or drive the decision, but it is very comforting as a result of the commitment that this will result. The same holds true for the OM. While I would like to turn him into a woman with a single shot, the end result would be harm to me and my M as I would likely end up in jail. While revenge sex would not end up in physlcal jail, it would put you in a mental jail with your WS.


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## the guy

8,
Hey were did the revenge thing come from? I'm just saying I want to be a positive man with a smile on my face.
I will not be the guy walking around the world with sad face think about how sh*tty life is. 

I'm renewing our vows in March and worked realy hard in repairing my marraige.

So, please I need to know were the whole revenge sex thing came from?


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## 8yearscheating

Not you the Guy, Sandeep and Simon Phoenix. Sandeep is one sick puppy.


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## the guy

I get it, some times I read to fast..past the replies, especially if I kinda see were there going.

There is alot of emotion and alot of hurt folks out there. The thing is each one has there reasons leaving and staying. As I to am in pain I want to thank all the guys that have choosen the same path as I have. It does give me the support in my discisions. 
I do have to be honest in saying that I also had some of the same feelings/thought of the said 2 guys but I found my reason to change that mind set and regrouped on my thinking. 

I'm I wrong or right... well it depend in who replies next  lol

No, really,I believed and did my analyizies and made the right discision for me and my personal circumstance. 

There are alot of factors that determine the out come of how a marriage will end up, so in my opinion there is no right or wrong way in how a LS deals with infidelity specificly when it come to folks on a forum just sharing.

I hope that makes sence!


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## 8yearscheating

It does. Sandeep made it a conquest. I don't doubt he left a lot of broken hearts in his quest to vent his anger. Not the type of choice I would have made even if got divorced. I too thought about a one time fling but my conscience brought me back to reality. The people on here with anger issues are wrong to push their angry motives on others. If a person wants to do something - he/she knows their own situation and deserves to be supported in their decisions, not pressured and harranged to follow a script. Thins are going well for me and my wife. Tell your wife I really appreciate her direct and open honesty. I hope she realizes some of her comments about you were her perspective at the time of the A and not really how you felt. If it is how you felt, I hope you are working on you. I know I too focused on work too much. But not to the point where I ignored or abused my wife. I was not home as much as I should have been becuase of the demands of my job, but not because I wanted to. It was my job. I did focus too much on career growth for higher salaries and not enough on her and my family. In any event, none of that justifies what she did. She made the choice when she could have had us go back to marriage counseling - in fact we in marriage counseling when it started and she was telling me everything was OK. We are working on our issues daily and the progress has been great. I hope you two are doing well and still seeing counselors both IC and MC.


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## the guy

I was neglectful, so yes there was some (alot) emotional abuse, especially when her 1st affair accured and I just totaly bailed on her. As you know things can snowball fast if not addressed.

You know you have a f*cked up marriage when you go tell your wife to get a boytoy instead of dealing with her needs. So I wont justify adultery nor will I justify emotional abuse. I will just say we had a ......unhealthy marraige and by the crase of God it some how stayed intacked long enough for the both of us to pull our heads out of our butts.

We stopped MC 3 month after confronting her, we still read alot about healthy marriages. I have also taken control in how I behave and what I tolorate.


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## jamesa

8yearscheating said:


> Sandeep is one sick puppy.


I think he is full of it anyway. When he says that he 'ended up with a hot 23 year old' I think it is more fantasy than reality. Men who boast about their conquests usually haven't made any.


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## jamesa

8yearscheating said:


> My decisions were not made out of fear of being alone.


Probably I was talking to myself rather than you 8years.


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## jem5

A hurt woman will justify anything she decides to do. Did not think about my husband at all because i did not feel appreciated.


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## jem5

Affaircare youre so right!!!


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## 8yearscheating

Jem5 - do you believe that I was so disconnected that I didn't even try? I did constantly try to get her talk with me about what was bothering her. She started with 2 different men while we were in marriage counseling. By the time we stopped marriage counseling because she told me everything was great, she had started down an 18 year path with a friend of mine. I definitiely mellowed with age and was not nearly as touchy as the years went by. But she did not change. Even when I stopped travelling for work, she did not stop. So saying you never even thought of him I believe. What I'm trying to reconcile in my mind, is now, how do I believe it will never happen again if she never thought of me in 20 years?


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## 8yearscheating

Well, my wife's father died. I did my absolute best to be supportive and I guess I hoped she would get close to me for support. Instead she seemed a million miles away and only made negative comments about me. I understand she is grieving a serious loss as she was very close to her dad. I feel selfish for wanting her to be closer and turn to me for support and comforting. On the other hand it makes me feel like she is not in 1000%. I'll set my own insecurities aside for now and give her time to grieve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

She made it clear that she was not pulling back and apologized for the negative slams she hit me with. I worry constantly that she will turn back to the OM in this time need for her. SHe insists she won't. Trying not to put any pressure on her at all and let her grieve while being as supportive as possible. She thought she needed to have sex with me when we got back. I told her no that I couldn't and wouldn't let her "service me" in her grief - that was not what I wanted and could not let her do something like that just for me - ever. She needed to want me first. So it has been very quiet and I feel her pain. Here is hoping she begins to feel at least a little better soon.


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## disbelief

Well 8 hang in there doubt will get the best of you. I don't remember if you see an IC mine is helpful. I suppose now you really need to be attentive. Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in but I believe I have read that death in the family a contributing mental factor to infidelity. 
I don't know maybe do that extra little note or something that would just make a smile. Hang in there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mugel7

Well I just found out my wife had been cheating on 2/2 I have a post under mugel7. Initially she was remorseful but now she seems to be forgetting about it. Like it didn't even happen. I don't know whats going on in her head.. She said I argued with her or gave her a dirty look so thats what put her in bed with him. She even claimed that when a friend wanted to give her a puppy I said no so she ended up with a visit from him a few days later.. Feel like I am walking on egg shells all the time. She says its over but I am not sure. I am auditing her call history and see no contact. I am still in pain everyday over it and she seems like business as usual. Don't any cheaters ever feel bad for their spouse?


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## DameEdna

*Sorry to be ignorant but....*



8yearscheating said:


> I am reconciling with wife who cheated for 20 years. Everyhting i remember from those years has become a trigger that forces me to ask myself did she ever really love or was I just the father of her children and a breadwinner. I feel like she hated me 90% of the time to be able to do this. How else could she climb in bed with someone else.
> 
> How did you feel about your LS. Did he ever cross your mind when you were with the OM? Did you delude yourself into thinking you deserved it and it didn't matter how he felt or that he would never find out so it didn't matter. Did you feel he (the LS) deserved to be hurt for what he did to you?
> 
> If your reconciling, how do you feel now?
> 
> I never quit loving my wife and remained loyal for 26 years in spite of many opportunities and times when I knew my love was unrequited. I know I had angry outbursts with her that were disrespectful. She claims she headed for him everytime they happened. I got control of those outbursts 15 years ago. SO I feel the balance of those years were only justifications on her part. Even the start was a justification, she should have worked through it with me, not him.


What does LS mean?

I don't come on here very often and I am not 100% sure, and cannot find anywhere that tells me what it means. I am sure I could fathom it out from the thread, but it would be easier if someone told me, so I can concentrate on reading the posts:scratchhead:

Thanx


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## notreadytoquit

LS=Loyal Spouse


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## 8yearscheating

Mugel7 - I posted on your thread. I should add that she wants to put it behind her and not go over it with you. See an MC and let them act as a mediator and protection for your wife. If she feels safe, she should open up.


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## 8yearscheating

To summarize what I've read - the WSs felt jsutified in doing what they did becuase of abuse or a failure on the part of their husbands to give them the love or other needs they needed. In my situation neither was the case. Yes we argued, but never to the level of being abusive. In none of the responses did I read how the WSs felt now that they were reconciling. No remorse, no "Oh god what did I do to him", no "I should have worked it out or left". Justifications only. I'm sorry, but short of abuse, I see no realistic justifications for not trying to sort out the problems first or leaving and D. My wife has shown that remorse and still can't explain how she could totally ignore how it would effect me. She can't believe I want to put the last 20 years in a coffin and bury them forever like a loved one that has passed. I on the other hand cannot reconcile the good times like our anniversary trip to Hawaii without thinking " how long before or after was she with him so how could it be love I saw?"


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## 8yearscheating

Side note - I have worked hard to change all of my behaviours that led to her anger towards me. Yes there were things not perfect about me. The same holds true for her. None of it justification for what she did to me and our marriage. She tells me she agrees.


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## 8yearscheating

Moving to a new thread called relapse by wayward spouse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

8yearscheating said:


> Thank you JRSMrs. Your honesty is appreciated. From my perspective, I have a very hard time looking back on the last 20 years because it feels like she hated me. I always believed that true love was unconditional and never wavered - the way I felt in spite of what was missing from her to me. If it's not that, then it is hate because my feelings never changed and her infideliity was the same as saying I don't need you, go away. If she had said that, then she would have showing her last bit of love. By not telling me so I could control my own life, she was saying I don't care about you and want to hurt you - hate.
> 
> Being self center is he same thing and infidelity is the ultimate expression of being self centered - all about her. That is not a marriage.


In all those years, did your wife ever tell you that she was unhappy, that she needed something more from you? Or did she just pretend to be happy with you?


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## Coffee Amore

EleGirl - the OP is banned and the thread is from 2011.


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## The-Deceived

Yeah, my heart BLEEDS for the poor cheating spouses. 

The WW you referred to in the above post is a selfish, two-faced narcissist. Why the hell would anyone show her compassion? What an awful person. 



Affaircare said:


> I find it fairly sad that there would be a thread like this, asking DS to open up and be honest, and yet when they are, they are treated like this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html
> 
> This reminds me of what it's like in a marriage, pre-affair. "If only he/she had been HONEST with me and told me!" the loyal wails, and yet the DS *was* honest and *did* tell you and rather than hearing "Thank you for your honesty; those are tough words and they sting but let me think about them" what happened. Oh yeah--yelling, belittling, name-calling, angry explosions, and then the cold shoulder. Do you know what that teaches a disloyal spouse? NEVER, under any circumstance, tell the truth to your loyal because that is the reaction you'll get.
> 
> Sooooo...I would be happy to tell you what I thought of my LS but you know what? I'm quite positive if I told the truth I would be treated like this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21206-i-am-having-affair.html. Nope. Sorry. Treat some DSs better first and I may consider actually answering.


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## The-Deceived

Affaircare said:


> A person can not, on the one hand, say things like "Please tell me the truth" and "I really would like to know..." and then, on the other hand, when they received the honest answer, respond with blaming, yelling, name-calling OR the cold shoulder...it is inconsistent.


Inconsistent with what? With what a wayward spouse would like to happen? Honesty (after true betrayal) is NOT a free pass on the consequences of knifing your spouse in the back. Get over yourself.


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## Vanguard

jem5 said:


> A hurt woman will justify anything she decides to do. Did not think about my husband at all because i did not feel appreciated.


You mean a self-entitled woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived

WhiteMousse said:


> You mean a self-entitled woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Ovid

20 years of cheating. I can't see how you could even consider R. It would be better to be alone in a cave than with someone like this.


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## walkonmars

This is a dead thread - the OP is long gone (banned).


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