# Mechanics of Leaving



## Mr The Other

For a man who wants to leave, I have a rather harmonious relationship with my wife. We speak together well, but it is an old story of words being just words.

My wife was not contributing to the marriage (in terms of sex, kids (we do not have any), working or housework). Recently, she has made an effort with the housework and is open to me tryng to sleep with her. It has been too long and when I was close to severe medical isssues from overwork, she did not help. It means I am worn out from trying and want her out as I cannot carry her anymore.

But how? This seems such a daft question, but we live abroad. She has no income (only loan repayments to make) and I cannot pay for us both to live seperately. 

What now?


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## Malpheous

When I divorced my first wife I found out I was no longer responsible for her bills. That's how...


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## PBear

Talk to a local lawyer about your options. Is she able to work in the country you're in? Can she stay in the country you're in without being tied to you? Would she want to stay? Does she have a support network elsewhere? And have you resided in that country long enough to establish residency?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other

Thanks. I have someone at work who might be able to help about how to proceed.

I almost wish there was bitterness to make it easier! A year ago, at which point a less healthy man would have had a heart attack, I was hugely resentful, but no longer. I imagine that will come.


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## MiriRose

I am sorry, I know this wasn't what you asked, but why do you have to give up on your marriage? Does your wife know how you feel?


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## Mr The Other

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/164130-perfect-not.html

I am not sure she understands. We have spoken, I have made it clear and we have been to marriage counselling. She thinks we can talk everything though and I am being irrational, whereas I think actually doing stuff is important.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I think PBear hit most of the important points.

Go through your finances for the last year (I like to use the checkbook and credit card statements).

List EVERYTHING you buy in a year; don't forget the 1x/2x per year stuff like auto insurance, home/renters insurance, etc.

Figure out how much you owe (vehicles, home, personal loans, student loans).

Find out if you *can* divorce under your home country's laws (see which is better for you: where you live NOW or where you're from).

A lot will depend on:
where you live
how long you've lived there
how long you've been married
is your spouse a resident of your current country
has your spouse EVER worked

Be sure to get your OWN attorneys as only the most REASONABLE break-ups (one where BOTH parties agree it's appropriate to divorce at this point) can expect not to have several points of contention (retirement, investments, house, etc.)

Best of luck to you, Mr. The Other!


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## MiriRose

Just saw your reply... I'm sorry you feel there is no hope for your marriage. I read the post you linked to and I can understand how it would be difficult to make the adjustment to a new country. Have things changed at all since you last updated this thread?


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## Mr The Other

She is pretty determined to go to college, and contribute financially in the forum of a student grant and student placements. Sexually, there is very little. She is not looking to have chlidren.

We talked extensively about what we wanted before getting married and this is not it. I am getting advice on Friday. The situation is never hopeless, but it is pretty close. 

Oddly, we still get on well, still make each other laugh and it will be a shame when that ends.


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## MiriRose

Thank you for that update. I am sorry that the marriage has not met your expectations. I think that's something we all come to face at one time or another -- disappointment that marriage is not all that we hoped for. I'm glad you're seeking some outside guidance... when you say advice, I'm assuming you mean counselor advice? 

Also, you didn't mention how long you've been married, but this website has some articles for the early years of marriage. It might be helpful. 

I truly hope things work out for the best. God bless you!


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## Mr The Other

Thank you. It is a shame that I think she just feels inadequate and that is the root of many of the issues. Unfortunately, she is not responding to those issues well which gives me no reason to think she will contribute children, a regular sex life or financially. 

I do not want to divorce, I want things to get better. A year ago I was angry. If I had the legal advice I had a year ago (in a divorce, I pretty much get everything) she would be out the door. Now, I just feel very sad, also as she is making some effort, does most of the housework now (co-inciding with me lowering my standards).


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## mom1.2

Mr The Other said:


> For a man who wants to leave, I have a rather harmonious relationship with my wife. We speak together well, but it is an old story of words being just words.
> 
> My wife was not contributing to the marriage (in terms of sex, kids (we do not have any), working or housework). Recently, she has made an effort with the housework and is open to me tryng to sleep with her. It has been too long and when I was close to severe medical isssues from overwork, she did not help. It means I am worn out from trying and want her out as I cannot carry her anymore.
> 
> But how? This seems such a daft question, but we live abroad. She has no income (only loan repayments to make) and I cannot pay for us both to live seperately.
> 
> What now?


I am sorry you are going through this... I am too leaving my husband but for different reasons... The problem is that we also cannot find a way to live apart financially.


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## caladan

mom1.2 said:


> I am sorry you are going through this... I am too leaving my husband but for different reasons... The problem is that we also cannot find a way to live apart financially.


I still live with the ex. We have a rather large house and we have kids. I sleep in the attic, she got the large master bedroom. Outside our mutual parental responsibilities, we've split up tasks and weekends and all that. 

For me, it works excellently. I think it works for her too. No dalliances allowed in the house (unless say one partner and the kids is out for the weekend).


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## Mr The Other

Thanks. We had another round of marriage counselling, and I suspect even the MC is urging me to leave in her own way. I contacted a lawyer and financially, at this stage we would split with what we brought into the marriage (i.e. I would get pretty much everything).

Equality went much further in Denmark. The result is much more favourable to men. 

As long as she is married to me, she can get free education in Denmark and that means everything to her. Seperation must be the way. I am still waiting for something to come along and change things for the better.

We live in an apartment. It would be awkward.


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## Alpha

Get rid of her, really. You do everything for her, the least she can do is be a good wife. I'm sure plenty of beautiful women to choose from in Denmark. Make the move and be on your way sir.


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## turnera

You've made it clear to her what you need. She doesn't feel the need to comply. This will give her the wakeup call; or not. Either way, you will be out of limbo.


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## Mr The Other

Thanks.

I realise I am becoming one of those posters who seems to ignore advice. Checking out the legal side was a big step.

She has a very negative mindset, which means that she can only see the sacrifices that she makes for me and can only see me demanding. It might be unreasonable, but it is far harder for her than me. 

She had some surgery some time back that meant no sex, which did not really mean anything as we were not having sex anyway. She commented last night that I was angry at her for not being able to have sex in that period of time. I was not, we were not having sex anyway and there being an excuse during that time was rather a relief. She has very low self-esteem and I am concerned she is becoming slightly paranoid, which means I want to look after her.

She is desperate to go to college and if she is not accepted, she suggests that we should go to a different country. I think the same problems will follow her.


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## turnera

Mr The Other said:


> She has very low self-esteem and I am concerned she is becoming slightly paranoid, which means I want to look after her.
> 
> She is desperate to go to college and if she is not accepted, she suggests that we should go to a different country. I think the same problems will follow her.


Wait a minute. Now you're staying together?!
:scratchhead:


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> Wait a minute. Now you're staying together?!
> :scratchhead:


No. We have not officially seperated, but we are discussing it. She does not want to.


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## turnera

So?


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## caladan

turnera said:


> So?





Mr The Other said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I realise I am becoming one of those posters who seems to ignore advice.
> ...
> ...
> ...
> She has very low self-esteem and I am concerned she is becoming slightly paranoid, which means I want to look after her.


What do you think Turnera?


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## turnera

I think he's starting to come out as codependent.


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## caladan

turnera said:


> I think he's starting to come out as codependent.


Bingo. He needs her to need him. She's got him exactly where he wants him.

MTO - perhaps someday you'll wake up and realize what you're doing, how you have such low esteem that you've been depending on her for some sort of personal validation, which quite frankly can be extremely draining on the other party. Perhaps you won't. Either way, until you decide you'd like to change the way you think, nothing is going to progress for you. You're not going to accept our advice. What you obviously expected from us was advice regarding how to win her back. Frankly, if I were in her shoes and my STBX was unable to move on and get his own life going after I pretty much ****-ed him, I'd have very little respect for him as well, regardless of whether I liked him/her.

Move on brother. Relying on her to maybe fall ill just to level the playing field is quite pathetic.


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## Mr The Other

Oddly, I change day to day, some days feeling I should stick with it and others thinking I should leave. What makes me very accepting of your feedback is that it is the days when I am happier that I move towards ending it. 

I will have to put a date on it and let her know. I have been cowering from doing this. Your advice is good and I am grateful.


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## LongWalk

Hello,

Caught up with your thread. Sorry you did not find each other. I am struck by your equanimity. You write about the situation with light irony and detachment, although you feel pain and that comes through. There is an air of unreality. Your marriage is broken and yet this important development is contested. She does not accept it.

Cleaning up and cooking is not difficult. Not holding a job, she could easily handle it. Divorce and separation will be enormous inconvenient to her. How could she have ignored your request for solidarity. 

The lack of sex is an absolute deal breaker. You are newly married, with no kids to distract, you more or less and should banging daily. In all of the MC and IC you should have discovered that you didn't know what a clitoris is or something else to clear up the cause of her lack of passion.

Is your wife a narcissist? Did she have other LTR upon which to base her current approach to cohabitation? Why did her other LTR's end if she had them?

Your decision to separate seems sound. 

She can probably to social and apply for welfare and her own apartment. Denmark is harder immigrants than the other Nordic countries. What languages does she speak?

Perhaps she could become an au pair... but you have to work to do that besides there is the dratted detail of the children.

What will you do with the dog? They are expensive in Sweden, I assume they are in Denmark as well. Maybe the dog will help her to make the transition to living alone.

Who is on the lease? How long is it for? One solution is for you to simply find another flat and move out with out telling her. She can sink or swim.

I sense that you wife comes from another culture and you have both used that fact to allow the lack of communication to continue until the breaking point. Is she able to express herself meaningfully in English?

You indicate that you are worried for your wife, that she is headed for some breakdown. Well, that is planned. It will give her a chance to sink a hook into you.


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## Mr The Other

LongWalk said:


> Hello,
> 
> Caught up with your thread. Sorry you did not find each other. I am struck by your equanimity. You write about the situation with light irony and detachment, although you feel pain and that comes through. There is an air of unreality. Your marriage is broken and yet this important development is contested. She does not accept it.
> 
> Cleaning up and cooking is not difficult. Not holding a job, she could easily handle it. Divorce and separation will be enormous inconvenient to her. How could she have ignored your request for solidarity.
> 
> The lack of sex is an absolute deal breaker. You are newly married, with no kids to distract, you more or less and should banging daily. In all of the MC and IC you should have discovered that you didn't know what a clitoris is or something else to clear up the cause of her lack of passion.
> 
> Is your wife a narcissist? Did she have other LTR upon which to base her current approach to cohabitation? Why did her other LTR's end if she had them?
> 
> Your decision to separate seems sound.
> 
> She can probably to social and apply for welfare and her own apartment. Denmark is harder immigrants than the other Nordic countries. What languages does she speak?
> 
> Perhaps she could become an au pair... but you have to work to do that besides there is the dratted detail of the children.
> 
> What will you do with the dog? They are expensive in Sweden, I assume they are in Denmark as well. Maybe the dog will help her to make the transition to living alone.
> 
> Who is on the lease? How long is it for? One solution is for you to simply find another flat and move out with out telling her. She can sink or swim.
> 
> I sense that you wife comes from another culture and you have both used that fact to allow the lack of communication to continue until the breaking point. Is she able to express herself meaningfully in English?
> 
> You indicate that you are worried for your wife, that she is headed for some breakdown. Well, that is planned. It will give her a chance to sink a hook into you.


A year ago I was angry and distressed. Since then, I have lowered my standards, taken up yoga and meditiation and am working far fewer hours. I am far from perfect, I head to the pub once a week and will be much the worse for wear every few weeks, I have also picked up the habit of being a little dictarorial. Furthermore, I am not putting the amount of effort into romance that I used to.

Cooking and cleaning are not difficult. She finds it a challenge, but it is not. 

There were a few reasons along the way for her reduced libido, there was medication she was on, but that was a period of a few months. THere was alsoa period when she needed minor surgery, which meant no sex. During this latter period she felt I was angry at her for not being able to have sex, but we had not being having sex anyway and increasingly I find her recollection of events less reliable (she said it was only two weeks since we last had sex, it has actually been over a month).

She is not a narcissist. A psychiatrist told her there was little wrong but very low self-esteem and I can agree with that. This is a lady who recently spent three hours helping an old lady get to a place to get her hair done. She has been in two previous live-in relationships. In the first, she will say she was too young and not really that into him, the next was with an abusive arsehole (there is an informal support group amongst women he has been involved with), which was some years ago. The third one was with me.

She speaks Danish to a good level and English (she is American). Dogs are not cheap, but I think the dog is verygood for her, getting her out the house and letting her meet people (not things she would do too much otherwise).

The flat is owned and in my name. In Danish law, it would stay mine. My moving out is not really an option. She has not paid into the Danish system, so I am not sure she can squeeze any welfare out of it, though if we are seperated rather than divorced she can get a grant to study and work part time.

The great danger is that as joys have slipped out of my life, the happiness that remains is linked to my wife - having a nice meal together, watching Game of Thrones together and cuddling. The co-dependence suggestion is very insightful, I feel I should be caring (my Mum is not inclined to cod-psychology in the least told me I had survivors guilt and should work on it). This thread has been very eye opening.


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## Mr The Other

caladan said:


> ....
> 
> Move on brother. Relying on her to maybe fall ill just to level the playing field is quite pathetic.


It was very sound advice. May I ask what you mean with the last line though?


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## turnera

Mr The Other said:


> Oddly, I change day to day, some days feeling I should stick with it and others thinking I should leave. What makes me very accepting of your feedback is that it is the days when I am happier that I move towards ending it.
> 
> I will have to put a date on it and let her know. I have been cowering from doing this. Your advice is good and I am grateful.


Mr, you can always get back together later. 

But right now, she doesn't even see you. You're invisible to her. You are just a wallet and a passport. She doesn't value you. And she has no problem telling you so.

That hurts and it battles your self-esteem. She's not going to fix it for you. You have to do that. Show her that you value yourself and deserve more in a marriage than this sham. Walk away. Let her run after you if she gets her head out of her ass and realizes what she's about to lose. But she'll never run after you if you don't start walking.


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## caladan

Mr The Other said:


> It was very sound advice. May I ask what you mean with the last line though?


I referred to an earlier phrase:



Mr The Other said:


> She has very low self-esteem and I am concerned she is becoming slightly paranoid, which means I want to look after her.



"Which means I want to look after her".

In my book, only one person needs your looking after, and that is you.

Please stop talking about yoga. I rate yoga quite highly mind you, but what you need right now is a massive rush of endorphins washing through your veins to make you strut around town like the **** of the walk. What you need to do is run.

Run. 4 miles. If you're not fit enough, run until you're tired, then stop and walk a bit, then run some more then walk some more, repeat. Empty out your muscles. Feel the burn. Run again a day or two later. Feel free to also lift weights and do press-ups. You can replace running with cycling (you'll probably need to cycle twice as long and twice as hard for the same effect).

Get a hobby. I bought a model plane and put it together. then a train set (which still lies in peices in my basement. Building models it turns out wasn't my thing). You find something you like and takes your attention. If it's not a good hobby, find another one. It's much easier to get a hobby you like while working on one you don't than it is to figure out one you like while doing.... nothing. "Busy-ness" is attractive. Go and watch (or play!!) live music at a bar close to you. Meet people, have a laugh. Make friends. Have your own agenda and plans, and stop waiting on her. 

Also do those other things that the amazing people on the forum tell you - therapy, reading, etc. 

Do this for two weeks, and see if the way you feel about yourself doesn't change. See if your good periods don't get better while your bad periods get less and less bad (eww, horrible grammar).


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## Mr The Other

Thanks, Caladan. That is good advice (much of it I have already followed, but it keeps me on track).

I actually did 100 press ups this morning, run a sport as a hobby (I will not say which one to remain anonymous). The yoga and meditation has been in addition. I also have a second appointment with a shrink coming up, which I am only slightly sceptical of.

I am grateful to a friend who is in a worse relationship and moving out of it even more slowly. It is a demonstration of the trap.


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## Mr The Other

I am filling in the form for legal seperation. This is painful and difficult and that is even before I hand it over.


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## turnera

{{{Mr The Other}}}

Understand that the only way to even save your relationship is to take this step. I really hope she wakes up and makes it up to you. But it would never happen until you take this step.

Think about all the Walkaway Wives in the world who marry, raise the kids, put up with a distant, ignoring man who takes them for granted and uses them as a hooker/maid/paycheck. The man is blissfully happy while the woman dies inside. Finally, usually when the kids are grown, she decides she's had enough and she deserves to live a life where SHE matters, and she leaves, after years of telling her husband how unhappy she is and years of him blowing her off. Suddenly, faced with papers or her suitcase, HE CARES! How could he have been so dumb?! Why didn't he listen?! (or worse, 'she never told me' - yeah right) But then it's too late because she no longer loves the person who hurt her for years, decades, and she'll never consider him again as a partner. It's ruined.

You're circumventing this by doing it now. As you should. Maybe, just maybe, it will wake her up and she'll get off her butt and start going to weekly therapy to figure out why she checked out of life. Maybe, she'll get better, and maybe, she'll become someone worth getting back together with. 

But it will never happen if you don't take the step you're taking.


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## Mr The Other

Thanks for all the advice.

The exercise advice was good and I realise that the better I feel about myself, the more I want to move one and the less I obsess about her feelings.

That said, I had a phone call asking what I would like for lunch and how does baked mushroon tiziki sound. It makes it hard if I dwell. We speak and argue about the future (or lack) of the relationship, but for the most part we talk about day-to-day nonsense, laugh together and she talks as if all is rosey.

It seems hard when I tell myself it is hard.


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## turnera

Once you file, you should not be acting like her friend. Just an acquaintance. For both your sakes.


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> Once you file, you should not be acting like her friend. Just an acquaintance. For both your sakes.


Thanks. Where she will live is a genuine mystery. An unemployed lady in an expensive city will not be able to find anywhere. This could be very difficult.


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## turnera

That's why I'm 97% sure she doesn't believe you will follow through. Either that, or she has a mental condition - depression, whatever - that's preventing her from accepting the truth.

Which is why I say to stop acting like her friend. Just an acquaintance for whom you would not go out of your way.


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## LongWalk

Reality could improve her

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Mr The Other

Right, this is embarrassing.

Last night, we had the same conversation in MC, but with me speaking in a louder voice. She was shocked that I was ready to walk away (raising the voice is actually effective on occasion). Since then, she wants to schedule intimacy (I wrote "intimacy" rather than "sex" for the Americans, you're very welcome) and has got out an got a job interview. Also, acknowledged that she should have prioritised the job all along and apologised.

So, my filled in application for separation is still in by briefcase. I said we will reassess in three weeks. Possibly delaying the inevitable. That is shows how easily it could have been done on the first place has not been lost on me. It is also confirmation that there are women who react far better to a raised voice and cold shoulder than any sensitivity bollocks.


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## Lostinthought61

what do you have to lose if you hold off three weeks or a month, let's face it she is not going anywhere...but that said i would still not let up on her,i would stay strong be the alpha male she needs you to be, in order for her to get motived in and out of the bedroom...take control.


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## jb02157

Unfortunately, in the US the man pays whether he can or not and doesn't get to see his kids no matter what the circumstances happen to be. If it were different, I'd be divorced right now and probably would have done it 20 years ago.


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## caladan

Mr The Other said:


> Right, this is embarrassing.
> 
> Last night, we had the same conversation in MC, but with me speaking in a louder voice. She was shocked that I was ready to walk away (raising the voice is actually effective on occasion). Since then, she wants to schedule intimacy (I wrote "intimacy" rather than "sex" for the Americans, you're very welcome) and has got out an got a job interview. Also, acknowledged that she should have prioritised the job all along and apologised.
> 
> So, my filled in application for separation is still in by briefcase. I said we will reassess in three weeks. Possibly delaying the inevitable. That is shows how easily it could have been done on the first place has not been lost on me. It is also confirmation that there are women who react far better to a raised voice and cold shoulder than any sensitivity bollocks.


I'd wait. You want to wait, she wants to work. You like each other. Yes, I'd wait.


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## Mr The Other

Thanks for the replies.



Xenote said:


> what do you have to lose if you hold off three weeks or a month, let's face it she is not going anywhere...but that said i would still not let up on her,i would stay strong be the alpha male she needs you to be, in order for her to get motived in and out of the bedroom...take control.


Control is a strange one. My problem has been that she has been too passive. The obvious thing is to take control of the scheduling of sex, but I will not unless I feel like doing so. I am not going to make a special effort anymore, just enjoy myself.


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## turnera

Does she have a written list of what you'd have to see from her to change your mind?


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## Mr The Other

No written list, as that has not worked out in the past.

I can see that she is making an effort, scheduled sex, job interview coming up, talking about putting off or forgetting college. 

The problem is I am finding it hard to care or trust anymore. I think she really cannot understand why my attitude is so hard.


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## LongWalk

Do you expect her to make sex happen? Sex and intimacy are two different things. If one is angry and resentful, a hard banging may be in order. Making a her come (lose control) is part of what you may be missing.

If that goes well, you may feel tenderness. That is another kind of love making.

But the question remains: why is your wife so egocentric?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Mr The Other

She generally follows my lead, it is actually doing things without me being there to push her that has been missing.

Sexually, she has always come in the past. This is the first time she did not, as it was unusual in that it was for my benefit. 

She is slightly shocked by our conversations, which is what happens when someone listens properly for the first time in years. I have said and she understands that I am not too bothered either way if we stay together or not and that I already have the forms for seperation. She was upset that I felt no need to be close with her, but that has been worn away over the years. She was upset that I was not willing to go back to having an emotional need for her, but I was firm that I was not. She said that left a huge imbalance of power, which upset her - it is true, but clearly for the best.

The conversation was productive, but the discussion of seperation is becoming very casual and comfortable on my side.


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> Does she have a written list of what you'd have to see from her to change your mind?


I have listed things that might help. I am at the point where I feel she is doing these things as she has a gun to her head, and it is a bit late for trust.


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## Mr The Other

I get home early and she is spring cleaning the flat. 

My heart is not in it in the same way, but I can see this is the best I could possibly hope for.


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## turnera

In her case, I would not make any decisions unless she can keep this all up for at LEAST 6 months. Anything less than that is just an act to keep her comfort zone.


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> In her case, I would not make any decisions unless she can keep this all up for at LEAST 6 months. Anything less than that is just an act to keep her comfort zone.


Indeed. At the moment, she cannot do right, as it deomonstrates who easy it would have been to do earlier. It was the stick that worked, having tried the carrot and there being a time when I needed the help.

Emotionally, I am half way out the door. She knows that and I have made it clear I am not comign back in.


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## Mr The Other

Scheduled sex is happening. Indeed, I find the trouble is more that I am not really looking forward to it. 

She also cleaned out the fridge today. That said, as I was working from home I got to see that must of her days do involve just lying on the sofa. She is making some effort, but I am finding it hard to be positive regarding the marriage anymore.


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## Keenwa

Mr The Other said:


> Scheduled sex is happening. Indeed, I find the trouble is more that I am not really looking forward to it.
> 
> She also cleaned out the fridge today. That said, as I was working from home I got to see that must of her days do involve just lying on the sofa. She is making some effort, but I am finding it hard to be positive regarding the marriage anymore.


Scheduled sex… mmmm… that's exciting…. :smthumbup: he he.. "umm honey, I need to push back our sex appt, I have an appt running late so can we start sex at 12:15 in stead of 12:01? "… he he. (I shouldn't talk, we don't have sex at all… )

A healthy marriage is so much more than fair allocation of household work, working out logistics and daily activities. This is what our marriage has become, after one year of counselling 


Wow I see so much of my relationship in this. After one year of IC and some MC counselling I have learned that I have been horribly co-dependent (much to my shock and dismay since I have always believed myself to be very independent). But in my relationship, it has suited me to have him need me to do everything. I have control, he listens, agrees with everything I say… it makes life easy in many ways. I initiate everything, including sex and he is happy with it that way. I used to find it very sweet and felt it was so respectful that he never pushed himself on me, but now I realize it's something else. He has no needs whatsoever, he says he has always been happy in the supportive role. He believes that his complying is supportive to me and that he shows his love this way. 

But then it hit me one day...I realized that I didn't have a partner…. and I realized my life was so freaking boring that I just wanted to stick a pencil through my ears. :lol: I laugh now but it was quite the realization to realize that i was not living, that I was getting nothing back that there was no relationship there really, in terms of a partner, a lover, someone who walked beside me in life, not behind me. He wants stability, I want possibility. 

Our counselling has involved a lot of me saying what my "needs" are and him taking that list and trying to comply. But when asked what his needs are, there are none. So he's trying to please, with his checklist of things he needs to do to keep me, and it is just making me feel more and more disconnected. 

Even if your wife did everything you think you want, i.e. get a job, get independent, help around the house etc… it still would leave you empty, (and i say this because I feel like I'm here)… you would still feel like she is doing it to please you and not because she is self motivated to do it.


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## Keenwa

Oh ps… you mentioned she's American… So… could you not buy her a one way ticket back to America??? She can work in the US… go to school do whatever she needs there no?


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## SurpriseMyself

jb02157 said:


> Unfortunately, in the US the man pays whether he can or not and doesn't get to see his kids no matter what the circumstances happen to be. If it were different, I'd be divorced right now and probably would have done it 20 years ago.


That isn't true for my state. My brother in law had primary custody of his son for the better part of a decade.


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## SurpriseMyself

Keenwa said:


> But then it hit me one day...I realized that I didn't have a partner…. and I realized my life was so freaking boring that I just wanted to stick a pencil through my ears. :lol: I laugh now but it was quite the realization to realize that i was not living, that I was getting nothing back that there was no relationship there really, in terms of a partner, a lover, someone who walked beside me in life, not behind me. He wants stability, I want possibility.
> 
> Our counselling has involved a lot of me saying what my "needs" are and him taking that list and trying to comply. But when asked what his needs are, there are none. So he's trying to please, with his checklist of things he needs to do to keep me, and it is just making me feel more and more disconnected.
> 
> Even if your wife did everything you think you want, i.e. get a job, get independent, help around the house etc… it still would leave you empty, (and i say this because I feel like I'm here)… you would still feel like she is doing it to please you and not because she is self motivated to do it.


:iagree: This is my marriage, too! It feels empty.


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## Mr The Other

Hi Keenwa, It was a shock for me to realise it too, or read it here and realise it was right. I think the meditation has allowed me to get rid of that.

Actually, the sex was good and that makes a big difference.

"someone who walked beside me in life, not behind me" - This does ring true. It was also why the early advice of taking leadership was not applicable. Frankly, her making an effort, even under these circumstances, does feel a great deal better.


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## Mr The Other

She did not get the jon she applied for. She is therefore going back to college. I had said that I was not going to support this and stuck to this, she was a little shocked.

In her mind, she will get a grant to college, be able to do student jobs and have a qualification in media at the end of it to enable her to get a good job. I want her to wait for a year and work. She says that makes no sense, as she would be able to earn money as a student and be be qualified sooner. She asks me what I want, I can only come up with to have faith in her again (rather lame).

She acknowledged that I had had a very tough couple of years and she says she wants to make it up to me, but believes what I am suggesting would make that harder.


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## turnera

I'm confused. Are you kicking her out or not?


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## Mr The Other

Sorry, I am a little confused too. She had started taking ritalin, which she said helped. We had also started having sex. Then, this came and I had made an ultimatum on it three times. It has to stick.

It is not kicking out, but my way or the highway. And I have an appointment with my lawyer on Tuesday.


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## turnera

So what's your timeline? Hell, what are you telling her you have to have? Even WE are confused.


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## Mr The Other

We have legally separated. She leaves the house in a week.


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## Lostinthought61

was this your decision ultimately or did you see that it had to be this way? are you going to stay separated while she goes to school ? i am surprised that she would rather be separated then work on herself for the sake of the marriage...i wish you happiness


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## Mr The Other

I put my foot down and said get a part time job or no school. We had booked a holiday to the USA to see her family and friends and I told her I would not join her. The intent was a kick up the arse. When she arrived back, we were on the verge of splitting. We got better, but she decided the best thing for us was to move to Seattle, where she would have a better chance of getting work that she would be happy with and I would also be able to get work in my field.

The issue was that we left the USA shortly after our marriage, so I am not permitted to work over there. She would have to go over, apply for a green card and I would come over in eight months. If we split up in the meantime, the divorce would be in the US courts and I would lose everything apart from the mortgage. I said that if I did not find work that would give me a visa to work in Seattle, we would legally separate. That is what happened.

Her plan is not crazy. Moving to Denmark did make things far harder for her. Things being difficult led to lifestyle changes that made being a bit depressed and in a difficult situation for her to being in very depressed in what she saw as an impossible situation.


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## Mr The Other

Keenwa said:


> Oh ps… you mentioned she's American… So… could you not buy her a one way ticket back to America??? She can work in the US… go to school do whatever she needs there no?


Did this a few weeks ago.


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## neglected42

Wow Caladan, I would love that set up with my husband. I am struggling terribly with my feelings towards him. We get along day to day, and have 4 children. Financially, it would be very wise to stay together until they are older. How did you come about this arrangement? Had you both fallen out of love? Both my husband and I contribute equally financially and I feel we could get along for the sake of our kids and continue having separate lives. He doesn't seem to agree. I really have no desire for another relationship ever again, so he wouldn't even have anything to get jealous about.


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## neglected42

Sorry Mr. The Other. I thought that would be directed to Caladan. I have no idea how to use this site yet


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## Mr The Other

No problem, the first two words made that clear!


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## Mr The Other

MiriRose said:


> Thank you for that update. I am sorry that the marriage has not met your expectations. I think that's something we all come to face at one time or another -- disappointment that marriage is not all that we hoped for. I'm glad you're seeking some outside guidance... when you say advice, I'm assuming you mean counselor advice?
> 
> Also, you didn't mention how long you've been married, but this website has some articles for the early years of marriage. It might be helpful.
> 
> I truly hope things work out for the best. God bless you!


Thanks for the help. All I wanted was some genuine effort, not even to achieve anything. 

I certainly did not have a fairytale viewpoint, but when one partner works themselves to the point of ill-heath (were I no fit I would likely have had a heart attack as my resting heart rate was up by 60%) - well the other can at least help clean the house. Those links are useful, but only for people who had very high standards and unrealistic expectations.

Nonetheless, they are very useful for some people, no doubt.


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## Mr The Other

She leaves on Wednesday. We have not got on so well since pre-marriage.


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## turnera

The stress is gone.


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> The stress is gone.


I will report back next week on that one, but I expect so.


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## turnera

What I meant is, the stress of having to appease one another. No more expectations. That's a huge relief for anyone.


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## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> What I meant is, the stress of having to appease one another. No more expectations. That's a huge relief for anyone.


Indeed.


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## Mr The Other

OK, the pain is kicking in. Things are still up in the air really. Divorce or separation is not really what I want, but I struggle to see any alternative and am not willing to pull all the weight in the relationship that has been very one way.What bothers me is that I am still married and a great part of me still wants it to work out. However, the only possible way for it to work out in my mind is if the effort comes from her and I cannot see that happening. 

I think we need to talk. Last time we spoke, she was upset that I had legally separated from her without telling her first. This is the old trouble of not atking what I say seriously, as I had told her and when she claimed otherwise I gave up on the conversation and have not spoken to her for almost two weeks. 

She is now working in Seattle while I am still in Denmark.


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## turnera

yeah, that doesn't sound like a good chance for recovery...


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## LongWalk

How are things going?

Getting a job in Denmark would be hard, but if she really tried she could have found something.

Her decision to go was really resignation on her part.

How do things look now?


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## Mr The Other

For the first couple of months after it felt better, but I needed some time. It all hit me a couple of months later and I took time off work. Actually going through a dark period felt positive. Basically, much better with short periods of melodramatic melancoly.

Thank you very much for the concern. This was a very useful forum, as it was critical with seeking to simply blame the man.

The next stage is on a new thread.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/223346-sleep.html


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