# talking to a brick wall



## fcc

My H and I have major communication issues. I over communicate and he doesn't at all. Everytime I bring up a concern, I always start it off real civil, but he won't even look at me while I'm trying to talk. He will stare at the tv or start pacing around like he just wants me to go away. He doesn't say a word after I've spoken for like 5-10 mins. I try to stay silent after thinking he'll say something, but he never does. 

I've tried a few things after this. 1) I start explaining again and then yelling coz I don't get a response from him. 2) I've straight up asked him is he has abything to say, and he'll say yeah okay I agree or say what do u want me to say. 3) ill walk away to let him think about it and get abck to me, and he usually gets back to me after 3-4 hours and ignoring eachother...very sweetly, but I'm so frustrated and bitter by then. My whole day is gone in waiting for him.

This seems like a solution to me most of the time,but after we both have agreed to the solution, and that we're not going to do a certain thing. He turns rite around and does it again a couple of days later. When I talk to him he'll say that was a different thing.

Grrr...how to we get on the same page??
Help me pls....anyone!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359

You describe a scenario that suggests poor communication skills. You are saying too much. He needs time to process--and then you get upset b/c he needs time. 

Here's a suggestion. Frame your concern in terms of what you think/feel--practice it before you address him and deliver your words more slowly than usually, but not in a snail-like pace. For example, "I think you don't love me and I feel unloveable." or "I feel unloveable because I think you do not love me." Getting to the thoughts behind your feelings will really help, because you may be misinterpreting his behaviors, or you may be able to reframe your thinking. It also helps him understand how you see things, too, even if he doesn't agree with the way you see things (and he does not have to). You can attach your thoughts and feelings to his behaviors, but remember: You are drawing conclusions based on his actions, and your feelings stem from YOUR THOUGHTS, not from his behavior. YOU determine how you feel, not him. The fact that you choose to spend all day "waiting" for his answer is why you get mad at him; just know that it will take him 3-4 hours to respond, and let it go--he processes things slowly, and he cannot change that. 

The issue should boil down to this: you have a need (expressions of love from him in a "language" you can understand, for example; read "Love Languages" by G. Chapman). You want him to meet the need. But you must express the need clearly without it being a criticism of him--it's a need you have, not a flaw in him. If you need words of affection to feel loved, tell him. The key here is, he must truly understand that a long pattern of unmet needs will greatly weaken the marriage. You will either fight to get the need met (and fail, again and again), or you will give up and try to live without that need being met. In each case, the marriage deteriorates and this is, of course, the road to divorce. He is "meeting the letter of the law" but is ignoring the spirit of it, when he says, "Well, this is something different," OR you are not making clear this is a NEED and loving people meet their loved ones' needs. So, if you have talked to him about leaving socks on the floor (just an example), he leaves a shirt instead and then says that he agreed not to leave socks on the floor; this is a shirt-what's the problem? So you fume. But you have not explained to him that you feel less desire for him when you have to clean up after him because only a child needs to be cleaned up after, and you are not attracted to children. You cannot change this anymore than he can change the fact that he needs processing time. You NEED him to act like a responsible adult in order to feel attracted to him. Does he want you to be attracted to him? I'm guessing, Hell yes! So, now he has information to help keep you attracted--and he knows his behavior is directly related to attraction. Big selling point. Of course, you may well need other things, too, so think about what bothers you and what need you have that is unmet when you are annoyed by something. 

Don't assume it will work like a miracle, but keep your thoughts/feelings/needs straight in your own mind and explain when necessary. Over time, things should improve. Good luck


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## so_sad

Good luck. I had the same issues with my ex. He would just look at me when I would talk about anything and he would always just sit there. I asked why he couldn't think of anything to say and he said he was just taking it all in. The only problem with that is he never came around to talk about it again.


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## fcc

thanks so much for your advice sister! He loves me a lot for sure, but shouldn't it be basic understanding that if one keeps doing things that are annoying the other person, the love will eventually lessen? Why does it have to be explained to him like a supply and demand equation. 

It is exactly like you said it. He is still very immature and still does things the same way as when he was a kid. He still throws tantrums when I make veggies at home. He tells his parents everything about us, wen I express my concerns about it, he agrees and still tells them everything. Its not just his parents, its anyone who asks. 

I'm not sure that I'm not being clear since I pretty much explain it in every way possible on earth. I know this bc he has said to me that I over explain things and just need to say it once and let it go. I just don't know what he understands from it since he never really says anything back. Sometimes I just never hear back from him, and goes on with life like normal again like I never even said anything. That's what annoys me the most. Even the fact that I'm not being normal and not talking anymore doent seem to bother him. He thinks I'm gonna get over it and waits for me to get back to normal. Its like he doesn't know I exist sometimes. 

He's also an only child. don't know if that has anything to do with it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fcc

so_sad said:


> Good luck. I had the same issues with my ex. He would just look at me when I would talk about anything and he would always just sit there. I asked why he couldn't think of anything to say and he said he was just taking it all in. The only problem with that is he never came around to talk about it again.


OMG. That's exactly what he says when I ask him. Did you ever get around the problem?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AvaTara539

He's obviously not a 'quality time' person. You could make it easy for him by saying that if he actually responds to and acknowledges you when you are speaking you will have to explain or overstate things far less! If he thinks it might make it easier for him he could be willing to do it. However if the situation is that he just doesn't CARE how you are feeling, you may want to suggest a MC. Sister359 offers some solid advice here.


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## fcc

He cares. I know he does, but he doesn't know how to listen and effectively communicate and then apply what we agree on. Its like he blocks it all and forgets about everything we talked about. He doesn't know how to argue either. He says random crap when he's trying to fight back. Its pathetic actually. He's not good with dealing with conflict I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AvaTara539

fcc said:


> He cares. I know he does, but he doesn't know how to listen and effectively communicate and then apply what we agree on. Its like he blocks it all and forgets about everything we talked about. He doesn't know how to argue either. He says random crap when he's trying to fight back. Its pathetic actually. He's not good with dealing with conflict I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband is also not very good at dealing with conflict and says rude and random things when I am trying to discuss issues with him, or ignores me and looks at something else while I'm talking to him and says "I'm listening" when he clearly isn't. The first thing I try to do is think about why he is acting either aggressive/frustrated or ignoring me. If it's the former I know he is emotional about the subject and I try to understand why by asking him understanding questions about the subject like "what's wrong honey?" "why do you feel upset right now?" etcetera. I speak softly and I'll touch his shoulder or hold his hands when he's visibly upset. "Talk to me." That works WONDERS. If you start out at the beginning just being pissed off that he's pissed off you'll never get anywhere. And if my husband isn't really paying attention I first wonder if I've gotten him at the wrong time (end of a really rough day, if he's in the middle of doing something he really enjoys, etcetera). If that's the case I ask if we can talk about something later when he has time or feels better. He's way more likely to be open if he's had a minute to himself. Also- if you're using the same approach in conversation over and over and getting nowhere, you're both doing something wrong. Not just him, but you as well. He may feel at a certain point it's 'hearing a broken record' or 'nagging', and when he agrees he may only agree to get you off his back and not because he actually does agree with you. Have you read 'Five Love Languages', 'Reptiles in Love' or 'His Needs, Her Needs'. All amazing books I would recommend, the latter two especially encourage you to put your feelings into action instead of just talking about how to fix things. If the efforts you are making are not working after some time, they are not the right method for you. Have you considered seeing a MC?


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## fcc

Sigh thanks for all the great advice. I really think its the way I talk to him is clearly not effective. I will try asking him for a better time to talk if he's upset. 

I have done some counseling by myself, but I came out bitter and hating my husband even more. So I didn't go again. I don't want to think this is not something I can solve myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doc

fcc said:


> My H and I have major communication issues. I over communicate and he doesn't at all. Everytime I bring up a concern, I always start it off real civil, but he won't even look at me while I'm trying to talk. He will stare at the tv or start pacing around like he just wants me to go away. He doesn't say a word after I've spoken for like 5-10 mins. I try to stay silent after thinking he'll say something, but he never does.
> 
> I've tried a few things after this. *1) I start explaining again and then yelling coz I don't get a response from him. 2) I've straight up asked him is he has abything to say, and he'll say yeah okay I agree or say what do u want me to say. 3) ill walk away to let him think about it and get abck to me*, and he usually gets back to me after 3-4 hours and ignoring eachother...very sweetly, but I'm so frustrated and bitter by then. My whole day is gone in waiting for him.
> 
> This seems like a solution to me most of the time,but after we both have agreed to the solution, and that we're not going to do a certain thing. He turns rite around and does it again a couple of days later. When I talk to him he'll say that was a different thing.
> 
> Grrr...how to we get on the same page??
> Help me pls....anyone!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sorry English 2nd Language.

OK, I have communication issues with my wife. We have been having this problem for a while. Like your H, she also stays quiet or refuses to talk about the situation. I have done your list also and didn't work. I just started to do this I write a letter or an email to her, telling her how I feel, how we can fix the problems, I ask her how she feel, etc... 

Now understand, I’m doing this because I'm deployed in Iraq, its hard when you only have 30min to use the phone, plus are more people sitting around you. And because I know how hard is to try to talk to her. 

She is opening up to me like this, and is working slowly. I found out how she feels when I ask questions to her. 

I quote from one of her response _"I wish it wasn’t so difficult for me to tell you these things in person but I feel like I have to keep it in because I don’t want you to say stupid comments and make me feel like I’m dumb. I feel useless and like I can’t do anything because that’s how you make me feel. She feel like just a cook and a baby sitter to you and nothing more, We never do anything together and when we do we always end up fighting. I just want us to be happy. I want to feel like I have a best friend and that I can tell you anything and you can relate and understand and be compassionate and understanding and be there for me, even if you think it stupid and insignificant. I want to be able to be myself around you"._

Now that I know all this, I doing my best to change and understand her more. I hope when I get back from this deployment our communication change from letter to a face to face conversation. The good thing about writing we can say and express each other how we feel without a fight.


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## Boogsie

Be careful what you wish for. I was just like your husband and my wife was on me for years to open up and let her know what I was thinking. Most of the time when I was quiet was because I was editing out everything I would say to her. 

Not to long ago I decided it was time for me to start speaking my mind and she was overjoyed. Until she brought up an issue that she had and I didn't edit anything. 

With me being very beta for many years most of things I wouldn't communicate on where discussions where she would ask me things like, "Why do you do this." "Why don't you do that?" "I asked you do X for me and it still isn't done." "I asked you to stop on your way home from work to get X, how could you possibly have forgotten it."

She accused me of "Not communicating." when bringing up those types of issues. Fine. I started communicating and I haven't stopped since. I feel great these days, but she doesn't like it too much.

Honest, he may be just editing things and trying to find a way to say things to you that won't "hurt your feelings" or "make you mad".


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## Trenton

Boogsie said:


> Be careful what you wish for. I was just like your husband and my wife was on me for years to open up and let her know what I was thinking. Most of the time when I was quiet was because I was editing out everything I would say to her.
> 
> Not to long ago I decided it was time for me to start speaking my mind and she was overjoyed. Until she brought up an issue that she had and I didn't edit anything.
> 
> With me being very beta for many years most of things I wouldn't communicate on where discussions where she would ask me things like, "Why do you do this." "Why don't you do that?" "I asked you do X for me and it still isn't done." "I asked you to stop on your way home from work to get X, how could you possibly have forgotten it."
> 
> She accused me of "Not communicating." when bringing up those types of issues. Fine. I started communicating and I haven't stopped since. I feel great these days, but she doesn't like it too much.
> 
> Honest, he may be just editing things and trying to find a way to say things to you that won't "hurt your feelings" or "make you mad".


You should have been honest from the beginning so she had a chance to feel bad enough about who you are and how you feel about who she is and walk away before investing so much time into the marriage in hope that you'd learn to communicate.

I mean...if you say you're going to pick something up at the store and don't, you're thoughtless. If you defend thoughtless actions, well, duh. If you really cared about what she wanted or felt/thought you would have empathized enough to try to factor her perspective into your response rather than hold back and passive aggressively respond.


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## Boogsie

Trenton said:


> You should have been honest from the beginning so she had a chance to feel bad enough about who you are and how you feel about who she is and walk away before investing so much time into the marriage in hope that you'd learn to communicate.


I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to convey to me here. 



Trenton said:


> I mean...if you say you're going to pick something up at the store and don't, you're thoughtless. If you defend thoughtless actions, well, duh. If you really cared about what she wanted or felt/thought you would have empathized enough to try to factor her perspective into your response rather than hold back and passive aggressively respond.


Yes, there are times I tell her I'll pick something up at the store as I'm walking out the door for work. But every now and then I'll forget about it by the time I leave the office. A majority of the times I don't. However, in the past, the number of times I forgot to do something for her certainly didn't coincide with the tirade she launch into. Oddly enough, if I do forget something, I go out and get it.

I used to always edit absolutely everything and take time to put together what I though instead of blurting it right out. My wife does that. She asked me one time why I never answered her right away when she would "discuss" things with me. (Replace discuss with b*tching at me and you have it). I told her because if I said the things that came into my mind as they came in she wouldn't like it.

It was her idea to have me not edit anything. The first time it happened I was helping her fold a load of laundry and as I was folding a towel, she grabbed it from me and complained that "I didn't even know how to fold a towel properly."

Under normal circumstances I would have just walked away, and a few hours later come back and explained the issue I had with the way she handled it.

There are many ways to fold a towel. And very few can be "wrong", but if it isn't the way she wants it then she huffs and puffs and complains and is always trying to manipulate me into doing things the way she wants them done.

So, with out editing my comment and approaching her as an adult, I looked at her and said, "We've been through this folding clothes things a dozen times now. There is no right or wrong way to fold clothes. Instead of being grateful that I'm helping you, you are going to stand there and ***** about how I folded a towel. You will never have the chance to ***** at me again for the way I fold clothes because I won't be folding any more."

By not editing when she would asking me to run to the store to get her something and I didn't want to I'd say, "No." Me saying no invoked rage because she had to go herself.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying or not. I almost get the feeling you think that I was cussing her out and calling her names.

All I really did was stopped the nice guy editing and apologizing.

Everything she didn't like, or I didn't do after a few hours I would "edit" what I said to her and it would never be, "do it yourself then" or "No, I'm not going to do that." It would be, "I'm sorry. It was all my fault. I won't let it happen again."

I think the problem is she knew what she got in the relationship, a Niceguy doormat and doesn't like it too much because I'm working on fixing me.


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## Mephisto

Trenton said:


> You should have been honest from the beginning so she had a chance to feel bad enough about who you are and how you feel about who she is and walk away before investing so much time into the marriage in hope that you'd learn to communicate.
> 
> I mean...if you say you're going to pick something up at the store and don't, you're thoughtless. If you defend thoughtless actions, well, duh. If you really cared about what she wanted or felt/thought you would have empathized enough to try to factor her perspective into your response rather than hold back and passive aggressively respond.


Who said he wasn't honest to start with? 
Who said that he had nothing else on his mind on the way home from the store? 
When a man edits the diatribe in his head to better suit his wife's communication style, does that REALLY make him a bad guy?

I think that too often men get into a habit of trying to be politically correct in their responses, because they are trying to keep their wife happy. 

Outer voice, "No dear, that dress certainly doesn't make your bum look big"
Inner voice adding "It's the double size serves of dinner and three bowls of ice cream a night for the last six months that make your ass look big!"

Do you REALLY want to hear what our inner voice is saying all the time? I can guarantee that you really don't. Even when we are in major arguments, there are some things we think, but just don't say. More the point, we don't DO a lot of the things that are our first response. We just need to find the right level of editting to get our point across without starting world war III.

Apologies, for the male of the species for having to edit out our primal hard-wiring to be acceptable in your modern society!


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## Trenton

Boogsie, what I read from you, and you used very broad examples, was that you didn't like the way your wife feels/thinks about things and disagreed with her on many things but stayed quiet or came up with the right words to appease her.

This was somehow tolerable for her even though she didn't like that she got that you were withholding.

Then you decided that you wanted a voice suddenly, didn't want to try to appease her and the end result is you're happy but she's even more unhappy.

Did I get this wrong from your thread?

What I was saying is that it was unfair what you have done to her. She might be *****y, complain and see the world differently but at least she is/was authentic. If you are busy editing things out (...and honestly were you doing this for her sake or yours?) to form an argument you think she'll respond to rather than trying to figure out where her arguments are actually coming from, how can you be surprised that neither approach makes her happy?

Now you've decided that you want to be honest and don't want to spend your time editing and you wonder why she's even more upset with that? The underlining problem is a lack of communication and mutual respect, but quite honestly, it goes both ways. I didn't picture you cursing or anything. I pictured you only looking at your perspective or how the conversation was effecting you and then puking out everything you felt about it. I imagine your wife does the same and always has but this is somehow considered nagging and biatching while with you it's considered manning up. 

The entire problem is an unwillingness to look at one another's feelings and thoughts on issues so that you can both find ways to make one another feel secure and happy in the relationship.

Mephisto...he said.

Do you think they're really busy trying to keep their wife happy for their wife's sake? Surely you'd resent and not like a person who was always finding faults and discounted your perspective...why keep that person happy if not to make sure _you_ don't have to deal with her.

I have a real hard time feeling sorry for nice guys turned whatever the heck you call the transition. I think the whole point is missed. Neither works to make the couple happy and both are about the guy. Duh.


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## grayhound

Boogsie said:


> I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to convey to me here.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there are times I tell her I'll pick something up at the store as I'm walking out the door for work. But every now and then I'll forget about it by the time I leave the office. A majority of the times I don't. However, in the past, the number of times I forgot to do something for her certainly didn't coincide with the tirade she launch into. Oddly enough, if I do forget something, I go out and get it.
> 
> I used to always edit absolutely everything and take time to put together what I though instead of blurting it right out. My wife does that. She asked me one time why I never answered her right away when she would "discuss" things with me. (Replace discuss with b*tching at me and you have it). I told her because if I said the things that came into my mind as they came in she wouldn't like it.
> 
> It was her idea to have me not edit anything. The first time it happened I was helping her fold a load of laundry and as I was folding a towel, she grabbed it from me and complained that "I didn't even know how to fold a towel properly."
> 
> Under normal circumstances I would have just walked away, and a few hours later come back and explained the issue I had with the way she handled it.
> 
> There are many ways to fold a towel. And very few can be "wrong", but if it isn't the way she wants it then she huffs and puffs and complains and is always trying to manipulate me into doing things the way she wants them done.
> 
> So, with out editing my comment and approaching her as an adult, I looked at her and said, "We've been through this folding clothes things a dozen times now. There is no right or wrong way to fold clothes. Instead of being grateful that I'm helping you, you are going to stand there and ***** about how I folded a towel. You will never have the chance to ***** at me again for the way I fold clothes because I won't be folding any more."
> 
> By not editing when she would asking me to run to the store to get her something and I didn't want to I'd say, "No." Me saying no invoked rage because she had to go herself.
> 
> I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying or not. I almost get the feeling you think that I was cussing her out and calling her names.
> 
> All I really did was stopped the nice guy editing and apologizing.
> 
> Everything she didn't like, or I didn't do after a few hours I would "edit" what I said to her and it would never be, "do it yourself then" or "No, I'm not going to do that." It would be, "I'm sorry. It was all my fault. I won't let it happen again."
> 
> I think the problem is she knew what she got in the relationship, a Niceguy doormat and doesn't like it too much because I'm working on fixing me.


Okay... I have to chime in on this one.

This sort of reminds me of my husband and I, so I can relate.

Growing up, my husband's Mom didn't make him do any chores because he was stubborn and she didn't want to bother fighting with him about it. (She actually told me about this and apologized to me the first year we were dating). He would make it difficult for anyone to ask him to do anything or he would just purposefully do the chore wrong or halfass, so that he wouldn't be asked again. Then there would be a fight and 99% of the time, his Mom would never ask him to do it again. By the time he was 16, he wasn't required to lift a finger in the house.

Fast forward a couple of decades. I married him. 

He also folds towels "incorrectly" and does things around the house that makes me give him odd looks. After living with me for 10 years, he still doesn't know where the measuring spoons go, what cleaners clean what, how to use our washing machine or dishwasher etc. Because he was never schooled in the art of domestic "chore-doing", he does do things... well... strangely. I asked him nicely to do things a different way and he wouldn't even try. He just doesn't wanna. He's being stubborn and immature. I do 98% of the household work, why is it such a pita to ask him to do his 2% a certain way, too? 

That being said, your wife sounds a bit like a shrew... but I can't help but wonder if you are being stubborn, or difficult... good guy filter or no filter... I think it's a lot deeper than the towel folding, don't you think? Instead of just flat out saying "no" to running an errand (thus, in your opinion turning you into the jerk, when you were the apologizing nice guy), perhaps you say you'll go in a little bit or have a routine in the afternoon where you call her before you leave work to ask how you can help. Why does it have to be such an issue?

Another example...
I asked him to vacuum the other day (which I rarely do)... he ended up almost breaking the vacuum by leaving the base of it at the top of the stairs, and stretching the attachments down a flight of stairs...gravity kicked in and the base came tumbling down. When I got angry, he told me that he was doing it his way. "His way" almost broke our $300 vacuum and put 3 dents in our baseboards. 

Does he know how to spackle, sand and paint? nope.

This is a partnership... not a dictatorship, not a competition and not a pissing contest. And a woman takes pride in her home... it's a reflection of her and how well she takes care of her family. If she's asking you to fold something a certain way or pick up something on the way home... how hard is it to set a cell phone alarm reminder or just fold the towel her way? :/

I bet I'm missing something here... but it definitely pushed a button for me.


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## Mephisto

Speaking from experience Trenton, I have to disagree. We men communicate in very basic ways, but are not "allowed" to be that blunt when talking to a woman, so we adapt what we need to say to be pallettable to the woman and therefore avoid over reaction at our being "jerks." 

The fact is, from my perspective here, that ALL the information needed is transferred to the woman you are speaking to, and, as pointed out by the OP, women want to keep talking it round in circles, again and again and again, because they don't like the man's take on it and think that through repetition he will change his views. He doesn't. At some point in time, the man gets sick of stating his case in a "nice" way. At this point, he will revert to being blunt and non-pc. Then the wife decides he is being a non communicative a$$hole who never listens to her, when he has listened and been disagreeing all along.

Who is the one who is not communicating here? 

Just because a man has views, or methods, does not mean he is wrong, and if a woman wants to micromanage HOW everything is done as in the example from Boogsie, then that is HER issue, not his. You either ask him to do something, or tell him how you want it done.... not both, give a little bit of credit where it is due. So he cleaned the kitchen, but didn't use the spray and wipe that you would use, WHO CARES, the guy just saved you 20 mins of work, go spray and wipe your own friggin bench. Takes 2 minutes out of your day to get the end result you wanted which would have cost you 20 mins.....

But of course, I must be wrong because we all work as a team and do it HER way. BS. Seriously, go outside and top-dress your lawn, or dig a dirty great big trench across your yard, something physically demanding that normally your H would deal with on his own, guaranteed you will try to do it differently to your H, guaranteed he will be grateful for the help. Guaranteed, he will give you pointers so you don't hurt yourself, but also guaranteed, he will not try to make you do it the same way he does!

Women need to stop sweating the small stuff and appreciate what they actually have, instead of b*tching about what they don't. Glass is always half empty in these situations.


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## Trenton

Mephisto said:


> Speaking from experience Trenton, I have to disagree. We men communicate in very basic ways, but are not "allowed" to be that blunt when talking to a woman, so we adapt what we need to say to be pallettable to the woman and therefore avoid over reaction at our being "jerks."
> 
> The fact is, from my perspective here, that ALL the information needed is transferred to the woman you are speaking to, and, as pointed out by the OP, women want to keep talking it round in circles, again and again and again, because they don't like the man's take on it and think that through repetition he will change his views. He doesn't. At some point in time, the man gets sick of stating his case in a "nice" way. At this point, he will revert to being blunt and non-pc. Then the wife decides he is being a non communicative a$$hole who never listens to her, when he has listened and been disagreeing all along.
> 
> Who is the one who is not communicating here?
> 
> Just because a man has views, or methods, does not mean he is wrong, and if a woman wants to micromanage HOW everything is done as in the example from Boogsie, then that is HER issue, not his. You either ask him to do something, or tell him how you want it done.... not both, give a little bit of credit where it is due. So he cleaned the kitchen, but didn't use the spray and wipe that you would use, WHO CARES, the guy just saved you 20 mins of work, go spray and wipe your own friggin bench. Takes 2 minutes out of your day to get the end result you wanted which would have cost you 20 mins.....
> 
> But of course, I must be wrong because we all work as a team and do it HER way. BS. Seriously, go outside and top-dress your lawn, or dig a dirty great big trench across your yard, something physically demanding that normally your H would deal with on his own, guaranteed you will try to do it differently to your H, guaranteed he will be grateful for the help. Guaranteed, he will give you pointers so you don't hurt yourself, but also guaranteed, he will not try to make you do it the same way he does!
> 
> Women need to stop sweating the small stuff and appreciate what they actually have, instead of b*tching about what they don't. Glass is always half empty in these situations.


Both are at fault but just as you're saying women have to stop sweating small stuff, I could say men need to begin caring more about the small stuff because the small stuff is what adds up into the big stuff.

I do mow our lawn from time to time, btw, and love outdoor stuff. When I do my husband will criticize me, he's not like...hey! thanks! He's like...hey, uh, you're not going in the right pattern and it doesn't look great.

Do I care, nah. I just learn to go in the pattern he prefers because it's something he normally does and I respect that plus I don't care what pattern it's in but respect that he does.

Women do have a demand on them when they have children that I don't think _most _men can appreciate. It's our responsibility to pay attention to the small stuff. The fever that goes above 103 degrees or the kid who comes home and is behaving differently and might need some extra TLC to get through a rough spot, the appointments and schedules that aren't important to us as moms except for that they're very important to those we love.

It's not as simple as the glass is half empty. Quite frankly, I'm a...it doesn't matter whether the glass is half full or half empty, let's enjoy it either way...kind of person.

Generalizations are great but in order to really communicate with someone we love (guy or gal) we need to appreciate and respect their opinion, validate how they feel and expect the same in return.


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## sisters359

> shouldn't it be basic understanding that if one keeps doing things that are annoying the other person, the love will eventually lessen? Why does it have to be explained to him like a supply and demand equation.


Yes, it SHOULD be, but when someone is finding things easier on themselves by the way they are doing things, they are unlikely to think about the long term issue. Even if you TELL HIM, more than once, he might not listen. Mine didn't. So, be prepared. You may have to tell him explicitly that these are the types of things that can lead to divorce, b/c you have needs that are not met. Again, he may not pay attention--putting the ball back in your court. At that point, you have to decide if you can learn to live without certain needs met (unlikely; the resentment will wear away at you and you'll be walking out 10 years later), or if you want to cut your losses as soon as he's proven he really does NOT care about you. Because when someone does not respond to the basic needs of a loved one, kindly and clearly expressed, they are saying "you don't matter that much to me." They *may* respond when you ask for a divorce--because that affects THEM (in my opinion). I don't think that is any evidence of them really caring for YOU, personally, but that's just me. 

So, yeah, you "shouldn't" have to say it, but you do.


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## Boogsie

Trenton said:


> Boogsie, what I read from you, and you used very broad examples, was that you didn't like the way your wife feels/thinks about things and disagreed with her on many things but stayed quiet or came up with the right words to appease her.
> 
> This was somehow tolerable for her even though she didn't like that she got that you were withholding.
> 
> Then you decided that you wanted a voice suddenly, didn't want to try to appease her and the end result is you're happy but she's even more unhappy.
> 
> Did I get this wrong from your thread?
> 
> What I was saying is that it was unfair what you have done to her. She might be *****y, complain and see the world differently but at least she is/was authentic. If you are busy editing things out (...and honestly were you doing this for her sake or yours?) to form an argument you think she'll respond to rather than trying to figure out where her arguments are actually coming from, how can you be surprised that neither approach makes her happy?
> 
> Now you've decided that you want to be honest and don't want to spend your time editing and you wonder why she's even more upset with that? The underlining problem is a lack of communication and mutual respect, but quite honestly, it goes both ways. I didn't picture you cursing or anything. I pictured you only looking at your perspective or how the conversation was effecting you and then puking out everything you felt about it. I imagine your wife does the same and always has but this is somehow considered nagging and biatching while with you it's considered manning up.
> 
> The entire problem is an unwillingness to look at one another's feelings and thoughts on issues so that you can both find ways to make one another feel secure and happy in the relationship.
> 
> Mephisto...he said.
> 
> Do you think they're really busy trying to keep their wife happy for their wife's sake? Surely you'd resent and not like a person who was always finding faults and discounted your perspective...why keep that person happy if not to make sure _you_ don't have to deal with her.
> 
> I have a real hard time feeling sorry for nice guys turned whatever the heck you call the transition. I think the whole point is missed. Neither works to make the couple happy and both are about the guy. Duh.


I'm going to try to be short with this reply, but brevity was never my strong suit. 

My father was my role model growing up. For many years as an adult I was a shining example of my father. A hard working who provided for his family. That was it. My mother made all the decisions and he even has her order for him when we go out to eat with them. He doesn't even decide what he wants to eat. When my mother would piss him off, he would hold it in until he was away from her when he would let it out. He was never abusive because he would completely avoid conflict.

That is how I was. I never said what was on my mind, how I felt, or anything. I always kept it inside. I was a terrible communicator. After my wife would let loose on me I would take a few hours to a day sometimes to formulate my thoughts and try to talk to her about the issue she raised. I was avoiding conflict by trying to appease my wife. When she would cross what I knew were my boundaries, I never said anything.

When I started to take control of myself again I admitted to her that I didn't say anything because I was avoiding conflict. She said that I should always say what I thought and felt. I told her that wasn't going to happen. Even speaking my mind I have to edit myself because I can't speak to her as I would speak to one of my male friends or male co-workers.

As was said earlier, if she asked me if a pair of pants made her ass look fat I would EDIT my response and say "You know I'm not going to answer that one way or another." If a male friend for whatever reason would ask that I would say something like, "Your ass makes your ass look fat." and there would be no hurt feelings. I can tell another male to "quit being an @$$hole" with no hard feelings and they know what I mean. I can NOT do that with a female lest I be labeled a jerk or moron, etc.

As a woman what would you rather hear? 

The male, edited version:

"Honey, we need to have a talk about our sex life. What we have no is too infrequent and just isn't working."

Or the male, unedited version:

"You need to start putting out more, or we'll be divorced or I'll find it elsewhere."

I heavily edit every single thing that comes out of my mouth except when I'm around close male friends. 

Again, any responses to nagging and biatching must be edited by the male brain lest we start a war. The amount of conflict in my relationship is directly proportional to how much I edit my responses.

If I acted on my raw emotions the way my wife does every woman on this board would call me emotionally abusive.

The first thought that comes into my head when I hear my wife say, "You aren't doing that right. I might as well do it myself.." is "F U, do it yourself."

What comes out is, "You asked for my help and I offered. Just because I do things different doesn't mean it is wrong."

As I said, my wife edits nothing. She says exactly what comes to her mind. I don't have that luxury. So my wife is either talking to a wall, or being emotionally abused. I guess my job is to find that fine line to walk where neither can be claimed.


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## grayhound

Boogsie said:


> I'm going to try to be short with this reply, but brevity was never my strong suit.
> 
> My father was my role model growing up. For many years as an adult I was a shining example of my father. A hard working who provided for his family. That was it. My mother made all the decisions and he even has her order for him when we go out to eat with them. He doesn't even decide what he wants to eat. When my mother would piss him off, he would hold it in until he was away from her when he would let it out. He was never abusive because he would completely avoid conflict.
> 
> That is how I was. I never said what was on my mind, how I felt, or anything. I always kept it inside. I was a terrible communicator. After my wife would let loose on me I would take a few hours to a day sometimes to formulate my thoughts and try to talk to her about the issue she raised. I was avoiding conflict by trying to appease my wife. When she would cross what I knew were my boundaries, I never said anything.
> 
> When I started to take control of myself again I admitted to her that I didn't say anything because I was avoiding conflict. She said that I should always say what I thought and felt. I told her that wasn't going to happen. Even speaking my mind I have to edit myself because I can't speak to her as I would speak to one of my male friends or male co-workers.
> 
> As was said earlier, if she asked me if a pair of pants made her ass look fat I would EDIT my response and say "You know I'm not going to answer that one way or another." If a male friend for whatever reason would ask that I would say something like, "Your ass makes your ass look fat." and there would be no hurt feelings. I can tell another male to "quit being an @$$hole" with no hard feelings and they know what I mean. I can NOT do that with a female lest I be labeled a jerk or moron, etc.
> 
> As a woman what would you rather hear?
> 
> The male, edited version:
> 
> "Honey, we need to have a talk about our sex life. What we have no is too infrequent and just isn't working."
> 
> Or the male, unedited version:
> 
> "You need to start putting out more, or we'll be divorced or I'll find it elsewhere."
> 
> I heavily edit every single thing that comes out of my mouth except when I'm around close male friends.
> 
> Again, any responses to nagging and biatching must be edited by the male brain lest we start a war. The amount of conflict in my relationship is directly proportional to how much I edit my responses.
> 
> If I acted on my raw emotions the way my wife does every woman on this board would call me emotionally abusive.
> 
> The first thought that comes into my head when I hear my wife say, "You aren't doing that right. I might as well do it myself.." is "F U, do it yourself."
> 
> What comes out is, "You asked for my help and I offered. Just because I do things different doesn't mean it is wrong."
> 
> As I said, my wife edits nothing. She says exactly what comes to her mind. I don't have that luxury. So my wife is either talking to a wall, or being emotionally abused. I guess my job is to find that fine line to walk where neither can be claimed.


Boogsie...

Do you edit absolutely everything you say to her? Like everything everything? 

You sound like you are just angry at her in general. It's been bottled up and now you are just about on the edge of exploding.

I understand the not wanting to create conflict, I understand that you want to keep your wife quiet... but if you are THAT angry... something needs to be addressed :/

I'm sure your wife filters... I bet you that she would say even worse stuff  

By the way, it sounds like she's criticizing your homemaking skills, not you and who you are. Just something to think about.

Good luck! It sounds really really frustrating.


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## grayhound

fcc said:


> My H and I have major communication issues. I over communicate and he doesn't at all. Everytime I bring up a concern, I always start it off real civil, but he won't even look at me while I'm trying to talk. He will stare at the tv or start pacing around like he just wants me to go away. He doesn't say a word after I've spoken for like 5-10 mins. I try to stay silent after thinking he'll say something, but he never does.
> 
> I've tried a few things after this. 1) I start explaining again and then yelling coz I don't get a response from him. 2) I've straight up asked him is he has abything to say, and he'll say yeah okay I agree or say what do u want me to say. 3) ill walk away to let him think about it and get abck to me, and he usually gets back to me after 3-4 hours and ignoring eachother...very sweetly, but I'm so frustrated and bitter by then. My whole day is gone in waiting for him.
> 
> This seems like a solution to me most of the time,but after we both have agreed to the solution, and that we're not going to do a certain thing. He turns rite around and does it again a couple of days later. When I talk to him he'll say that was a different thing.
> 
> Grrr...how to we get on the same page??
> Help me pls....anyone!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fcc...
I've been having communication issues with my husband, too. It's been really frustrating and I'm very close to walking at this point.

I thought that maybe he had autism or aspbergers or ADD and that I might have OCD or narcissistic personality disorder etc etc. Point is... I found some interesting tactics, explanations and support when I visited these forums. If you get specific enough, you might find a way to communicate that works for both of you!

I looked up ADD husbands and found a lot of interesting information that helped me. It might not change how I feel, but if anything, it'll help me in my future quest to find a mate or help him communicate with his next mate.

My point is, perhaps you want to google some of the things he does... it might be a disorder. It's a lot easier for you to read how to deal with it creatively than keep hitting your head against a wall.

On the ADD/ADHD page, wives had lots of solutions for communicating with husbands that just don't pay attention or are off in their own worlds. It seems that for some, it's not about communicating a thought or idea, it's about creating a whole new routine.

It was reassuring somehow to read what these wives had done and the progress they had made.

Good luck... I, too, had no idea how hard marriage was going to be!


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## Boogsie

grayhound said:


> Boogsie...
> 
> Do you edit absolutely everything you say to her? Like everything everything?
> 
> You sound like you are just angry at her in general. It's been bottled up and now you are just about on the edge of exploding.
> 
> I understand the not wanting to create conflict, I understand that you want to keep your wife quiet... but if you are THAT angry... something needs to be addressed :/
> 
> I'm sure your wife filters... I bet you that she would say even worse stuff
> 
> By the way, it sounds like she's criticizing your homemaking skills, not you and who you are. Just something to think about.
> 
> Good luck! It sounds really really frustrating.


No, I don't filter everything. We do have normal conversations. When I filter myself is when she is either coming close to crossing my boundaries, or does cross them. I can see how it comes across as me being an angry person, but I'm actually the opposite. You have to understand that I would have no problems with my wife if she would say:

Could you do X like this because of Y and Z? Then I could evaluate and decide if *I* really want to change how *I* do it.

Instead I get the crap I posted above. I've tried to explain this to her but she doesn't get it. 

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is when my wife is standing in front of me beating an already dead horse about something she's already brought up many times before I did not say the first thing that came to mind, nor the 2nd or 3rd. I brought the issue up when I had myself under control and after she had cooled off a little. She saw me as a brick wall, and avoiding communication, and I was just trying to avoid the big fight of who is right and who is wrong because I didn't "fold the towel properly".


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## themrs

I could have written this. My husband does not talk about things. I think of our marriage/family as a mini corporation and sometimes I want to have a strategy session or a quarterly review. No matter how I approach the conversation, he shuts down. He watches tv or plays video games and does exactly what you are describing. He won't answer me or look at me. I have come to the conclusion that the more I try and get my husband to do something, the less likely he is to do it. It's infuriating! 

We are currently at an impasse because I want/need more romance in our relationship. It doesn't even have to be romance, just something different. I'm terribly bored and have been for a while now. All we do is watch tv and when I ask him to do something (ANYTHING) different he just stares at me. The only conversation we have is about things that are ON the tv! I mean, I like talking about movies and shows but come on! 

Sorry for the rant. . . anyway I decided to stop talking. I'm a strong believer in if something doesn't work, try something else. I figured that if I stopped talking, he'd have to start. When there is a void in a marriage, it always seems that one person rushes to fill it. 

I only speak when spoken too. I am not acting in an unkind or unfriendly way, I'm just keeping my mouth shut. I started last night. He offered to let me lay on the couch 3x so I could be comfortable watching tv (again with the tv!) Then he asked why I was lying on the floor and I replied I had a headache and he jumped up to get me medicine. He kept asking me over and over what was wrong, as if he wanted me to be my general talkative self.

Today, I didn't talk this morning. Again, I wasn't rude I just kept my mouth shut. Do you know, since I've been at work he's called me three times to report the goings on of his day and to update me on what he will be doing tonight and what his plans are for this weekend, etc? 

So my advice to you is to stop talking. Obviously it's not working. I'm sure you've tried every approach in the book when starting a conversation with him and tried initiate the conversation at different points of the day and week when you thought he wasn't busy doing something. I did too and none of it worked. The only thing that is working is for me to stop talking all together. Find something else to do. Write in a journal or call a friend and talk to her. Just leave him alone and he'll probably come looking for you.


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## ichangedhehasnt

hello, 

i talk to a brick wall too. i hate it and over the years i have tried different tactics, none of them have worked. i know that he doesnt respond because he doesnt want me to be mad, but if i get mad i will get over it. i need to know what he thinks and if there is something that bugs him he should be able to tell me without being afraid. he doesnt like conflict and thats why he wont say what he thinks, but when there is conflict if he keeps it inside there can be no resolution, just like men say they are not mind readers, neither are we. today i needed him and i decided to videotape him so i can show him what it looks like when he stonewalls me. he caught on to the fact that i was videotaping him and he got mad, but it made him think. he did not want to have to see himself being mean so he turned around and he did not raise his voice. we may not always like what our husband or wife has to say, but it is important for us to hear it. my husband told me that he hates it when i ask him to do stuff like get me a glass of water or to get my phone and bring it to me, i had my feelings hurt at first, but i only asked because he never told me no and i thought he didnt mind. after i found out he did mind, i stopped. i dont know what the answer is but i am ready for a change. throughout the years my style of communicating has vastly improved, but he still does the same thing. i wish i had someone to talk to and it was him, i love him so much.


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## 4sure

Brickwall talker here also. He doesn't talk about anything. I once decided not to talk to him to see how long it would take him to say something to me. It was 6 days.

I don't talk much to him. It sure is silent in our home. It is exhausting to try to pull conversation out of a person. It is not my job to force a grown man to talk to me.

If my H folded a towel or did anything in the home I would fall out first, then be happy. Hell surely would be froze over.


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## Runs like Dog

I used to hear this as well. Then I stopped listening. I discovered her spin on 'conversation' was making sure I was standing at attention listening to her tear me down or simply complaining about things in general. I often leave my earbuds in and the iPod switched off just so she thinks I can't hear her. That way she won't try to grumble and mutter and complain and scold.


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## Kate0558

sounds like me and my boyfriend. doesn't listen doesn't care... or an anoyyedd "yessss" he just doesn't want to have any sort of serious conversation unless he initiates it. I've found I gotta maneuver my way into the subject in a very gentle way when he's literally got NOTHING else he's doing. Interrupting his time on the computer or playing video games apparently doesn't count as doing nothing. And before bed is worse cus then i'm inhibiting on his sleep.


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## ladybug828

themrs, sounds like my house. he messed up big time and it took him 2 days to apologize. He says "again Im sorry for what happened" and i said "Again"? this is the first time you aplolgized, and his comment was i didn't apologize before? Duh! Really?! He messes up all the time and again like the fool i am "still here" when does it stop? We are in counseling and at first I thought it was me so i went by myself for 6 months until the therapist said to bring my husband in. although i was glad to hear that it just wasn't me I still feel responsible in some way.


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