# He just did us a favor.



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

In the midst of a discussion, he demanded I "allow" him to record it.

Be. My. Guest. 
Abso-freaking-lutely. 

I asked him if he'd let others listen to it. Damn skippy.

Context:

He was pissed--passive aggressive, mopey--that I expressed my preference to stay over a week across the country (having just found out my grandfather has late stage cancer and possibly only months to live), before discussing other options with him that include spending fewer days. 

So...I tried to talk to him about it--AS HE HAD WANTED.

So yes, the following conversation is RECORDED:

Me: "You said you were upset that we never sat down and discussed my travel plans. You said let's talk about it after we found out my dad's travel plans. So ok, we just found out. Let's talk about the options."
Him: "I refuse to talk to you about this. It's only going to turn into an argument."
Me: "It doesn't have to. We'll figure it out together."
Him: "You just want to talk about it to deal with your own psychological issues and your discomfort with all this, it's for your benefit, not mine."
Me: "You said you wanted to discuss it. It's not healthy for us to refuse to tell each other what our feelings are. You said you were upset that we didn't discuss it. So I'm trying to give you what you wanted. I could tell you were upset. When someone I love is upset with me, I show them I care about their feelings. When someone I love says they want to talk about something, I talk about it with them."
Him: "MY feelings are MINE to deal with. You are NOT to deal with MY feelings!" yikes, ok
Me: "Ok. Then what are your feelings about this?"
Him: "I am HAPPY to lose 10 wonderful summer days with my WIFE, and have her SPEND them with her FAMILY and her GRANDFATHER, because THAT is IMPORTANT!" a
Me: "It's ok if there are some other feelings than happy in there."
Him: "NO there are NOT other feelings than HAPPY! Don't you DARE tell me I'm feeling other things than HAPPY!" right...
Me: "Okay..."

I'm paraphrasing.

Go ahead, record it.
One of us was trying to resolve.
One of us was yelling.
One of us was showing concern for the other.
One of us was shutting down.

Let's just keep the tape rolling...

I honestly wonder if he has some kind of personality disorder. 

People....
Please don't tell me "LEAVE RIGHT NOW!!!!" Certain logistics and other things need to be figured out before I'm ready to do that. But I appreciate everyone's support in the meantime, I am really going to need it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You guys both have a lot of resentment towards eachother and it doesn't sound like its getting better based on thread after thread that you start.

You say you want to talk, he puts a stop to it. 

You say don't tell you "LEAVE RIGHT NOW" so I will tell you this: 

Since it's your choice (and rightfully so) to stay with him -- I wish you good luck.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> You guys both have a lot of resentment towards eachother and it doesn't sound like its getting better based on thread after thread that you start.
> 
> You say you want to talk, he puts a stop to it.
> 
> ...


I don't have resentment toward him. I'm in therapy to work through my own feelings so that I don't harbor resentment. 

HE said he wanted to talk. So I tried. Then he refused.

It's not my choice to stay with him if things remain like this. I'm just not ready to leave at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Him: I am HAPPY to lose 10 wonderful summer days with my WIFE, and have her SPEND them with her FAMILY and her GRANDFATHER, because THAT is IMPORTANT!

You: Great! I'm glad you're happy for me to go. I'll let you know the details.

Don't waste your breath after that.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Him: I am HAPPY to lose 10 wonderful summer days with my WIFE, and have her SPEND them with her FAMILY and her GRANDFATHER, because THAT is IMPORTANT!
> 
> You: Great! I'm glad you're happy for me to go. I'll let you know the details.
> 
> Don't waste your breath after that.


Guess I could see all the visible non-happiness, and wanted him to just f-ing be honest with me about it.

He's so scared of his feelings. Terrified.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Honestly, this is crazy. I would, personally, have just walked away from that conversation, telling him that you will continue it when he decides to participate constructively.

You see he WANTS to start a fight with you, right? He turns every single thing you say against you, regardless if it makes any sense at all.

In fact, the conversation might as well have been this...

You: wow! I'm thirsty.
Him: of course you are! Your ALWAYS thirsty! Wtf!
You: well, it's hot out. I'm getting a glass of water. Would you like some?
Him: NO! I don't want water! What! Are you saying I'm always thirsty or something! 
You: I was just offering. Maybe you are thirsty too.
Him: oh great! Now your saying im too lazy or incompetent to get my own water! Great! Just great! I can't do anything right by you! Screw you!


I'm not sure why he's so argumentative, though. I haven't followed all of your threads. His PA, but doesn't fit within my experience of PA behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Antheia (Jul 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> Him: I am HAPPY to lose 10 wonderful summer days with my WIFE, and have her SPEND them with her FAMILY and her GRANDFATHER, because THAT is IMPORTANT!
> 
> You: Great! I'm glad you're happy for me to go. I'll let you know the details.
> 
> Don't waste your breath after that.


:iagree:

I am not trying to be critical of yu but I really felt like you were bear bating. I did not feel like your expression of "I want to know about your feelings" was genuine. I was not there so can't tell for sure but I am just saying that it did not come off that way. You can not be his therapist and wife at the same time. If the two of you are having problems then you can't be the referee and the opponent at the same time.


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## broken1 (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, you might have come across a bit condescending. Although, its difficult to say without hearing the actual tone of the conversation. Might even suggest your bahavior comes across a bit passive aggressive as well. Good idea to allow the opportunity to talk, but after he refused it probably would have been best to drop it. Certainly not trying to paint your husband as the victim. He clearly has issues. But it really doesn't do you any good for me to give feedback on his behavior. So I'm trying to keep it focused on you.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Im just putting in some last ditch efforts to repair before finally check out.
I have tried EVERYTHING.
Yes, it was genuine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## broken1 (May 10, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Im just putting in some last ditch efforts to repair before finally check out.
> I have tried EVERYTHING.
> Yes, it was genuine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you specifically told him this?

"I am on the verge of completely checking out and these are my attempts to salvage something. I'm not playing games. I have thoroughly weighed the options and am prepared to leave you for good if you are not in this with me."

something like that...? just to make sure he fully understands the magnitude... just a thought.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^^^ do this


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I've told him I'll leave if he doesn't get his temper under control and learn to talk to me about things without losing his cool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## broken1 (May 10, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I've told him I'll leave if he doesn't get his temper under control and learn to talk to me about things without losing his cool.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, but if you told him this during a fight or while he was having a temper tantrum, he didn't hear it. This needs to come across calmly, with love, when there is no other anger and emotions influencing the conversation.


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## Vixen3927 (May 2, 2011)

*From a clinical perspective, it most certainly is not out of the question that he has the potential for a personality disorder. Although most have the onset around young adult age (18-25) there are no shortage of cases where they begin to develop later in life. He might have even had it this whole time but that it presented as something else. Since I only have this brief encounter to go off of, I absolutely don't want you to take this as a diagnosis or even an assessment but there does seem to be some kind of disconnect going on here. I also don't know your relationship's history so I may be missing key information that would help me evaluate the situation more appropriately. I don't really know what else to contribute to your post given the lack of other important information but I hope the situation you are going through is resolved in a manner that is accommodating to both of you. I send you my best wishes about your grandpa and I'm sorry to hear that news. Even though you may not be getting the support you need and deserve at this hard time in your life from your husband, I hope you have enough other loving support in your life to get you through this. Take care!*


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

broken1 said:


> Ok, but if you told him this during a fight or while he was having a temper tantrum, he didn't hear it. This needs to come across calmly, with love, when there is no other anger and emotions influencing the conversation.


No I said it calmly and with love. More than once. Once in writing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Vixen3927 said:


> *From a clinical perspective, it most certainly is not out of the question that he has the potential for a personality disorder. Although most have the onset around young adult age (18-25) there are no shortage of cases where they begin to develop later in life. He might have even had it this whole time but that it presented as something else. Since I only have this brief encounter to go off of, I absolutely don't want you to take this as a diagnosis or even an assessment but there does seem to be some kind of disconnect going on here. I also don't know your relationship's history so I may be missing key information that would help me evaluate the situation more appropriately. I don't really know what else to contribute to your post given the lack of other important information but I hope the situation you are going through is resolved in a manner that is accommodating to both of you. I send you my best wishes about your grandpa and I'm sorry to hear that news. Even though you may not be getting the support you need and deserve at this hard time in your life from your husband, I hope you have enough other loving support in your life to get you through this. Take care!*


Thank you, I appreciate this.


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## Antheia (Jul 5, 2010)

One poster made a comment that you had posted about issues before so it seems this is an ongoing situation, I don't know for how long. Also you said that you can not just up and leave right now so you will have to stay for some time while you sort out other arrangements.
Regardless of who is right and who is wrong in all of this how does it matter? Don't get too involved either on this forum or with others in your life in all the fights and how you tried to make it better but he would not etc etc. If you can not make it work with him then get on with your life. If you spend too much time and energy on the conflict you are not moving forward with your life.
Can you just move away emotionally from who is right or wrong and make the next responsible steps in your life (whatever that may be)? If you have to stay with him then stay and don't fight but make plans to get out when you can and focus on that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> No I said it calmly and with love. *More than once*. Once in writing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then he obviously doesn't believe you, because you have bluffed multiple times without any effort to back up your words. Why SHOULD he believe you?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Then he obviously doesn't believe you, because you have bluffed multiple times without any effort to back up your words. Why SHOULD he believe you?


You are pretty harsh with me sometimes. I've tried to take your advice, which has sometimes been very helpful, but to be honest, not always consistent.
It's not bluffing. It's *warning.*
I don't want to leave him. I'm doing my best. Still doing my best.
Trying to meet his needs and not lose mine too.
Trying to set and enforce boundaries consistently for awhile...before I finally throw in the towel.

I'm being honest with him. Just also being patient. Giving it time.
I'm not ready to leave him yet. I'm just doing my best up until I am, and hoping something changes.

Btw...he has done some of the things I've asked him to do, for the sake of our relationship. 
He's not 100% uncaring about this--see why it's a dilemma?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Of course; nothing is ever black and white. But I'm harsh because, of all the people I've read about or advised in the last 10 years, the #1 occurrence among them all is fear - fear of losing someone, fear of being rejected, being alone, doing with less...and we compromise. And when both of you compromise without first finding a real solution, you both end up losing out. 

Telling him your boundaries and then ENFORCING them are the only way for you to protect yourself while still showing you care. If you're not going to leave him, then find out what your boundaries ARE. You say you're trying to enforce boundaries. What are they, and how do you enforce them?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I'm with Turnera on this one.

I know, from your posts (I've followed and read them all) - that you are trying and want to salvage the relationship.

But yet - I see you in the same merry-go-round and trap that I was in for a long time.

I've been where you are and also kept going round and round and finally it hit me that I was going about it all wrong and that a lot of what my husband was saying was right on target. 

Sure, he has his own issues, but from MY standpoint, I was going about it all wrong to effect change in my relationship.

For example:

- I have been working on me, and diligently, but it took a while for me to see that I was acting as though I was superior to him - such as a hey - look, I'm getting my act together so I'm better than you. I didn't come right out and say it, but he surmised it from my actions - maybe your husband feels the same way - that you think you are now superior to him because you're working things out and he's not.

- Also, in my need to get HIM to change, I realized that my helpful comments (and I truly thought they were helpful) were viewed by him as nitpicking, critical and belittling - he said it felt like I was attacking him (even when said calmly and with love--HE didn't see if that way). Didn't matter if I thought I was taking the right approach, he didn't, so I had to change my methods to get the point across WITHOUT putting him on the defensive or ready to shut down or attack back.

- In my fierce need to "be right", I couldn't and wouldn't see his POV whether I agreed or not. And while I never said to myself nor him, I'm right, you're wrong - my actions and the way I spoke and treated him said to HIM that I was right and he was wrong. This is how HE saw it.

And I saw NONE OF THAT until he finally told me to my face and it wasn't pretty. I thought I was doing the right things, doing everything possible, that I was above it all and he just needed to get his act together and boy was I wrong.

He didn't see what I was doing in the same light that I did. Once I realized that and took a very good look at myself I saw where he was right - dammit - the man was actually right.

That is when real change started happening in my marriage. I was able to effect "positive" change - what I thought was positive in the past was riddled with negativity. 

Once I did a 180 and truly not only felt that way, but acted that way - my husband, in turn has made signfiicant strides too.

We are slowly working our way back to each other.

I know you might think I'm crazy but I see a lot of my own marriage dynamic in yours and I see you handling it in similar ways that I did.

Your way isn't working - from your post(s), it appears that you both are moving farther away from each other and that he has or is slowly withdrawing from you emotionally.

What you're doing isn't working - time for a new tactic.

Just my thoughts, you can take them or leave them but I see so much of myself in you. Just think about it, ok?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Here's what I see.

Fortune-telling.
Deflective Psychobabble.
Isolation
Selfish Sounding Sacrificing Sarcasm
Railroading

Here is a suggestion.
Have him make the travel plans.
Go on schedule.
Change the return trip once you are gone.
Whether or not your grandpa has a turn for the worse, he has a turn for the worse. It's entirely subjective so he cannot call you out on it. If he does, he cannot complain to anyone about it because he will sound like a jerk for not wanting you to spend time with a close relative near the end of his life.
So you spare yourself the drama of knowing that he is the sort of jerk who does not want you to spend the time you need there.

Ordinarily I am all for truthfullness and full disclosure and all that good stuff. But your man is not normal, and so in order to have a normal life, you might need to do things a little differently. Stick to your guns on this one, because you cannot undo the decision and re-do things differently.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MWIL, I appreciate your reaching out to me.
But the reality is, I HAVE changed my tactics.
Guess what---THIS WASNT A TACTIC. This was me having a bad day because I found out my grandfather's dying, and being appalled that my husband wasn't offering solid support and letting ME be emotional.
This was--and still is--me being baffled that Im the one coddling HIS emotional roller coaster reactivity, when I need support.
This was HIM making it about HIM. And me feeling bummed the F out over that.

Homemaker....
Despite what I just said, he actually doesn't begrudge me the time I need to spend with my family...it's just that he couldn't help but somehow feel sorry for himself at the same time.
Sad. But true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Yes, sad.
He could have kept that bit to himself.
Same outcome, and you would have felt better about it.
Maybe he is trying to ruin the time you spend away from him obsessing over how upset he is going to be and how he will make you 'emotionally pay' for your trip 100 time the length of the time you are away. 
Making it so that you just can't win.
Or trying to.
Think of him as a 4 year old, where mommy going away is a good thing for junior.
He can learn that mommy's world does not always revolve around his needs and desires.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Yes, sad.
> He could have kept that bit to himself.
> Same outcome, and you would have felt better about it.
> Maybe he is trying to ruin the time you spend away from him obsessing over how upset he is going to be and how he will make you 'emotionally pay' for your trip 100 time the length of the time you are away.
> ...


Yes.
He's sneaky with this, of course...he has quite an arsenal of well-practiced behaviors that scream "SELFLESSNESS" to the world.
He wouldn't DARE admit he's feeling sorry for himself. He disdains those feelings, refuses to admit them, and throws them at me covered in hostility with my name on it.
He hates himself for feeling any need for me or attachment to me. So he denies it hatefully.
Nope. He wouldn't dare admit he's grudging me the chance to spend time with my family----he twists it around and makes his anger MY "fault"---or tries to. 
He can't stand the truth of his own feelings and reasons, so he tries to pin them on me.
He HATES his feelings. So he tells me he hates mine, and acts hatefully whenever I have feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Yes.
> He's sneaky with this, of course...he has quite an arsenal of well-practiced behaviors that scream "SELFLESSNESS" to the world.
> He wouldn't DARE admit he's feeling sorry for himself. He disdains those feelings, refuses to admit them, and throws them at me covered in hostility with my name on it.
> He hates himself for feeling any need for me or attachment to me. So he denies it hatefully.
> ...


Are you always on edige and suspicious of his motives when he says or does something?

Just curious...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> MWIL, I appreciate your reaching out to me.
> But the reality is, I HAVE changed my tactics.
> Guess what---THIS WASNT A TACTIC. This was me having a bad day because I found out my grandfather's dying, and being appalled that my husband wasn't offering solid support and letting ME be emotional.
> This was--and still is--me being baffled that Im the one coddling HIS emotional roller coaster reactivity, when I need support.
> ...


No excuses, but some people SUCK, totally suck at offering support and emphathizing with the emotions of others.

Doesn't make it right - but they suck at it.

Trust me - I've got one too.

When his mother died and I told him how sorry I was, his response was and I quote "well, we all have to die sometime."

I was shocked to say the least. But have learned that this is "how" he deals with his pain and emotions.

Doesn't make my way right and his wrong - just makes it different.

Sounds like he was scared that he was going to be left alone for a while and this is how he reacted and couldn't see that you needed support because he was scared of what he was going to do with you gone - maybe?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Are you always on edige and suspicious of his motives when he says or does something?
> 
> Just curious...


Um, no. He's made this glaringly clear to me. I'm not paranoid. He's pretty direct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> No excuses, but some people SUCK, totally suck at offering support and emphathizing with the emotions of others.
> 
> Doesn't make it right - but they suck at it.
> 
> ...


Yes, you're probably right.
I didn't want much. I just didn't want HIM to get edgy with ME. Which he did.
He shut down a discussion about my travel plans.
Then got mad at me for not having discussed with him my travel plans.
Then refused to talk about my travel plans.
It's quite a workout.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

If you want to do something nice while you're away, you can do what my friend's mum used to do when she visited her home country and left her executive husband at home. She would cook meals in advance that he liked and put them in the freezer in labeled freezer-to-microwave containers and leave a note with the contents, plus homemade cookies, favorite beverages, etc.

If he decides to forego these offerings while you're away, you'll have a break from cooking when you return. 

If I were you, I'd stay close to the train station or point of departure if not by car, the evening prior to leaving, and also make sure your travel documents, etc. are all secured. Some people just have no impulse control. 

There is sad disappointment and there is sad why did I not think of this before it happened.

To those who say why expect things like this doesn't it encourage them, obviously they've had the pleasure of living with people who behave normally.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker, I appreciate your no-nonsense understanding of what I'm dealing with.
He's not one who would do something crazy---that would indicate that he cares, and he's not about to admit that. 
He's a SAHM----a stay-at-home-moper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I had one who was a bit more active.
My daughter is much more adept than I am at having him toe the line. Who can iwn a match with a man who has the maturity of a 4-year-old boy? A 7 year old girl! But, all in all, he is an ex.
Current H is similar to yours.
But one never knows when they've played out their usual hand, what might develop in future. It could really go either way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Yes, you're probably right.
> I didn't want much. I just didn't want HIM to get edgy with ME. Which he did.
> He shut down a discussion about my travel plans.
> Then got mad at me for not having discussed with him my travel plans.
> ...


 So don't participate.

You know what he's like. You know you won't get anywhere. So quit butting your head against the wall. 

Let him know that you give up trying, and here's what you're going to do from now on. You welcome him coming along for the journey (not the trip, but your 'life journey'), but you're not going to stress out over whether he gets you any more.


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