# I want to be ok with his porn use but I'm not



## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Hi, I'm new here - 25 year old, been married just over 2 years, been with the guy for 7 years. Sorry for the long post.... 

When we first started dating I was very young and was very jealous, would check through his phone, things like that. I knew it was a problem and worked hard at it. Until a few weeks ago, I hadn't looked through his phone/computer in YEARS. 

A few months ago I accidentally saw some porn videos he'd downloaded. This upset me because I had been feeling as though we hadn't been having enough sex. He first denied it. Which only infuriated me because how else would the videos magically appear? We had a discussion about it and he told me how he had been feeling insecure and lacking in self esteem because he had been struggling to find a new job. So he didn't feel confident enough for sex with me - and that the porn was just an outlet. I understood that and did what I could to make him feel important, support him, initiate sex with him more often (but without coming off as a dominating cow). 

Now, months later, he's got a great job, he's doing really well, relaxed, we're having sex a lot more often, confidence back to where it was. I thought all was fine! Then the other Saturday morning we have sex - twice. A few hours later I walk in on him watching porn. He wasn't masturbating, he was just watching (or at least he was at that point). He says the sex we'd had was amazing, that I'm the best, most sexy etc etc etc. But then WHY? Hours after having sex?

I was upset and hurt. It awakened the jealous monster that had long been sleeping inside me - and I went through his phone and pc - and found that he has been looking at porn many times a week. 

We had a big fight. He says "its not like its cheating". I understand that but tried to explain how it makes me feel. He hated that I'd been snooping.

We made up. I put in extra effort in the bedroom - trying new things/being more adventurous, initiating more, giving him more one-sided action like bj's right before going to sleep so that he didn't have to feel the "pressure" of satisfying me when he's exhausted from a long day at work (don't get me started - I love sex, I don't want it to be a chore for him...). 

That week we had tons of sex. But then as soon as I was out of the house this Saturday morning - right back to it. He has also been using that chaturbate site - I think he's just been watching the videos rather than actually interacting with anyone - but who knows. The fact that these are real live girls in my surrounding area just makes it that much more hurtful. 

I know porn is "normal" and I might be totally mad for thinking that I deserve more than this... I know it shouldn't be a reflection on me but I can't help but think that when he is looking at such explicit, exciting things so regularly, then how can he possibly be aroused by more "normal" things (like me)? 

When we first got together it was non stop lust and sex. He'd get turned on just by my bending over in some good jeans. We'd have sex multiple times a day and he made me feel like the sexiest woman alive. I know this kind of beginners lust fades over time. I know it can be "tedious" being with the same person for so long........ but I feel as though I am too young to feel like a dowdy, old, prudish wife who is undesirable to her husband! 
Especially since I love sex and am really open minded - having done things with him that many people wouldn't do!? 

Any advice... ? I really want to talk this through with him in a controlled, calm, open manner... but he just denies everything and tells me everything is fine - which just makes me even more upset and makes me not believe anything he says. 


Thanks for reading folks!


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

My suggestion, both of you need counseling. Why? Because you both seem to be insecure. You need it because you liked to snoop, and don't trust him. He needs it because if he is that insecure and having low self esteem about not having a job, that he tells you thats why he turned to porn then he needs to find another way to deal with his low self esteem and insecurity. Go fishing or hiking. Something more constructive. 

However since he found a good job and seems happier, then him telling you he turned to porn because of being low self esteem and insecure is BS. Because he is till turning to it when things are going ok. So maybe he also needs help in learning to not lie and just coming clean about things too.

Also, if you are not ok with his porn, its ok, its not the end of the world. Never compromise how you feel about something just because you are afraid of what the other person might think. People need to learn to stand their ground on how they feel.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Porn is highly addictive and while casual viewing is OK, in my opinion, obsessive porn watching can be harmful, like excessive use of anything.

Here's an interesting piece on porn and how it can affect you physically:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...rn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-growing-problem


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I see some things that probably need to be addressed, not just porn, so I think counseling might be a good idea as well. You both are still young and this is something that is fixable if you both want to work on things. You don't want to be 25 and dealing with this now, and then blink your eyes and you're 40 and still dealing with these same issues. 

Bottom line, even if you get into some counseling and if he doesn't stop watching it, then it will come down to decisions. You will need to figure out if you're ok or not continuing to live with someone who is doing something you don't like. And he will need to figure out if he is ok or not continuing to live with someone who isn't ok with what he is doing.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys. I know I have self confidence issues to address. 

This may not make sense... but I am ok with him watching the odd bit of porn if, for instance, I am away for a few days, or maybe when he's been bored and alone at home ALL day or when we haven't been having sex for some reason and he just needs a quick wank... 

But what freaks me out is how he felt the need to watch it just hours after we'd had mind-blowing sex, twice. And that he still needs it even after having sex at least once a day, every day for a while... and how he quickly sneaks some in while I pop out to the shop or even while I am in the shower?! How I'd love for him to come in to the bathroom and jump me while I'm in the shower, but instead he jumps up the stairs to the computer screen.

That makes me feel as though something is missing from the relationship - or that he has some issue he doesn't discuss with me.
I am worried about porn addiction being a possibility, but don't want to be accusing him of (more) things. 

I've watched some with him, we had a good time. I showed him the kinds of things I like on the odd, blue-moon occasion that I watch porn without him, I asked him the kinds of things he liked watching - to try get an idea of any kinky fetishes he's been unable to tell me about so far... but its just always lesbian sex, which is pretty normal IMO. 

Anyway, thanks folks


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

It sounds like contradictions to me. The title is, "I want to be ok with his porn but I'm not." But then you go on to say that you're ok with it sometimes if you are away or whatever. And you even watch it sometimes too. 

Maybe this is where a lot of people get mixed messages from their spouses. Its either you're ok or not ok, not its just ok sometimes. You can't say you're ok with it sometimes and then when they do watch it, its not ok and then wonder why they watched it. People either are ok with it, or they are not.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

IMO, I think he may have a problem with it. He is a little to much into it. This is what I see for your future if its not dealt with now. I see this porn thing becoming worse. I see him eventually preferring it over you etc, and your marriage falling by the way side, and list goes on. 

If you are truly NOT alright with this, then you need to tell him , and you both need to seek out help. If he truly has a real problem with the porn, then you saying its ok sometimes, is like telling an alcoholic its ok to have a beer once in awhile, it doesn't work that way. If he has a problem then it needs to be completely resolved.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm okay with porn in moderation. I'm not okay with it being something he "needs" to do daily especially right after having sex with me.

I understand your point completely.

The only thing I'm against is snooping. It only serves to make you feel like crap. Snoop and you will find something you don't like.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Jamison said:


> It sounds like contradictions to me. The title is, "I want to be ok with his porn but I'm not." But then you go on to say that you're ok with it sometimes if you are away or whatever. And you even watch it sometimes too.
> 
> Maybe this is where a lot of people get mixed messages from their spouses. Its either you're ok or not ok, not its just ok sometimes. You can't say you're ok with it sometimes and then when they do watch it, its not ok and then wonder why they watched it. People either are ok with it, or they are not.


I totally see what you're saying. Yes, it may be hypocritical. I think the point I was trying to make is that if for whatever reason I am unavailable or unwilling - then I understand the need for an outlet. I don't love the idea, but I understand it. 

What I can't get my head around is needing the porn when you have a ready and willing woman just metres away (or minutes away, depending). And yes, I am aware that porn and sex are not the same thing. But I feel as though this is interfering with our sex life.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I'm okay with porn in moderation. I'm not okay with it being something he "needs" to do daily especially right after having sex with me.
> 
> I understand your point completely.
> 
> The only thing I'm against is snooping. It only serves to make you feel like crap. Snoop and you will find something you don't like.


Too true. I hate the snooping, and I know it will only make him hide these things from me more and betray his trust in me. I have had a bit of a relapse... !


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It is interfering with your sex life because he reaches for it instead of you and it's affecting your self worth.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

CallaLily said:


> IMO, I think he may have a problem with it. He is a little to much into it. This is what I see for your future if its not dealt with now. I see this porn thing becoming worse. I see him eventually preferring it over you etc, and your marriage falling by the way side, and list goes on.
> 
> If you are truly NOT alright with this, then you need to tell him , and you both need to seek out help. If he truly has a real problem with the porn, then you saying its ok sometimes, is like telling an alcoholic its ok to have a beer once in awhile, it doesn't work that way. If he has a problem then it needs to be completely resolved.


Thank you, I do need to be clear about my feelings when we discuss this later. I am not alright with it, I think I have been desperately trying to be alright with it and trying to justify it to avoid being accused of being overly controlling or henpecking.

My ex-boyfriend used to smoke a lot of weed. I hated it and gave him an ultimatum - me or the weed. Now, I really regret taking that approach - it should be more of a discussion - there's no point "forcing" someone to do something they don't want to do, just leads to resentment and going behind my back. So I've been trying to avoid making this same mistake again.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> It is interfering with your sex life because he reaches for it instead of you and it's affecting your self worth.


I will need to quote this verbatim later! I've tried explaining this to him but he just says "you're crazy, you're gorgeous, it doesn't interfere with how I feel about you, you're the only one I want"... but it now all just feels like empty words when his actions say otherwise. 

Thank you!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, you might need to work on your self-esteem / jealousy issues, but your H's porn habit isn't helping you with that one bit...

Whilst porn isn't cheating, to many women it evokes very similar feelings, and those feelings have to be addressed by the couple, not ignored. There are some who dismiss such feelings as jealous and insecure, but otherwise self-assured, confident women with a healthy level of self-esteem also develop such feelings regarding porn, so it isn't helpful to the relationship if those feelings are simply dismissed...

I think you need to have a serious discussion with your H and, if necessary, seek MC.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Always watch actions over words.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

silvertime said:


> My ex-boyfriend used to smoke a lot of weed. I hated it and gave him an ultimatum - me or the weed. Now, I really regret taking that approach - it should be more of a discussion - there's no point "forcing" someone to do something they don't want to do, just leads to resentment and going behind my back. So I've been trying to avoid making this same mistake again.


Do you regret it because he chose the weed over you? 

I guess my thing is, people shouldn't just settle for something they really don't like, especially if its something that is affecting the relationship. Thats why, its probably best you both seek out some help.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

CallaLily said:


> Do you regret it because he chose the weed over you?
> 
> I guess my thing is, people shouldn't just settle for something they really don't like, especially if its something that is affecting the relationship. Thats why, its probably best you both seek out some help.


Haha, no, he "chose" me but I could feel the resentment and he would still do it behind my back anyway - so it wasn't much of a choice for him! It was just that I don't think forcing the issue was a good idea, and my ideas about weed have relaxed over time anyway. It was a stupid relationship, in fact, maybe I regret him NOT choosing the weed.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

silvertime said:


> Haha, no, he "chose" me but I could feel the resentment and he would still do it behind my back anyway - so it wasn't much of a choice for him! It was just that I don't think forcing the issue was a good idea, and my ideas about weed have relaxed over time anyway. It was a stupid relationship, in fact, maybe I regret him NOT choosing the weed.


Seriously? Everyone has deal breakers and pot would be mine. I gave my husband an ultimatum when we were dating cigarettes or me (I can't stand the smell of smoke). He quit and hasn't smoked since. It's been 23 years now.

In your case either your ex didn't mean it or he knew YOU didn't mean it.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

CallaLily said:


> I guess my thing is, people shouldn't just settle for something they really don't like, especially if its something that is affecting the relationship. Thats why, its probably best you both seek out some help.


I think you're right. He's told me I'm crazy being upset about this stuff, but my feelings are valid... I need to stop letting him convince me otherwise.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Seriously? Everyone has deal breakers and pot would be mine. I gave my husband an ultimatum when we were dating cigarettes or me (I can't stand the smell of smoke). He quit and hasn't smoked since. It's been 23 years now.
> 
> In your case either your ex didn't mean it or he knew YOU didn't mean it.


He knew I meant it, I was highly against it at the time. We broke up later when I found out he had carried on smoking. 

I think porn is a bit more tricky to have a dealbreaker mentality about. On reading up about this issue the majority of the advice is that porn is 100% natural and healthy and basically you should be more worried if he isn't watching it than if he is. This has made me feel like my feelings are wrong, and that I'm just being silly and insecure. 

BUT - that method hasn't been helping the situation. I still feel rubbish about it, except that now I also feel rubbish about feeling rubbish! So, I need to try a different approach.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Chaturbate? If that's what I think it is, that's a wee bit more than just porn use.

Looking at porn is one thing. Sex chatting with live women is quite another.

Have a read at my story (link in my sig) to see just what porn use can lead to in some guys. Your husband is well on his way down the slippery slope, I am sorry to say.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

silvertime said:


> "_It is interfering with your sex life because he reaches for it instead of you and it's affecting your self worth."_
> 
> I will need to quote this verbatim later! I've tried explaining this to him but he just says "you're crazy, you're gorgeous, it doesn't interfere with how I feel about you, you're the only one I want"... but it now all just feels like empty words when his actions say otherwise.


I have to strongly disagree and you and Mavash are looking at it completely the wrong way. 

What if he said "why are you reading the romance novel or watching a romantic movie when you can live out real romance with me"? Would you give up reading and watching movies?

*Porn is just entertainment!!* Yes, like anything else in life, if it becomes an obsession and he spends all his time doing it, then he needs to change his habits (whether he's together with you or not). But that doesn't sound like the case here. 

The road you are on now will lead to you making ultimatums, him watching porn and hiding it, you catching him, you argue, he starts seeing you are more his mom than his lover, and is less attracted to you, leading to him watching more porn, and the cycle repeats itself even worse. This scenario usually ends in divorce. 

Here's my simple advice:

1. Stop taking porn so personally; in fact, stop assuming everything he does is about you (It's not - I swear! ).

2. Watch porn with him, and you might both enjoy it. After all, you watch romantic movies together, don't you? The principle is the same.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Here we go....
> 
> She has changed just about everything she possibly can to ensure her guy is satisfied enough to not turn to porn so much, yet he still does. She is acting more like the women in porn so her guy will seek her out more instead of them. She isn't saying he shouldn't watch porn, but that watching porn so often after she has changed so much about what she does in the bedroom is kind of hurtful. It's really a blow to the ego.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying this! 

It is totally not just the porn as an outlet - it is the fact that it interferes with us. It's using it when I am in the shower or whatever. 

I find it really irritating how the comparison is always to women watching romance movies or even "going shopping". It is not the same thing! Women may have different sexual turn-ons to men - but we are not some weird asexual gender that only enjoys candlelight dinners and long walks on the beach. I found it hot watching porn with my guy - its just when he picks it over me that it becomes a problem.

As you say, I have done all that I can to spice things up. He hasn't made any effort. 

The porn after sex thing is so bizarre. I don't understand it. H can't explain it to me. I totally know how you feel when you say you felt like you weren't good enough.

There seems to be so much pressure on the woman to be kinkier, sexier and more confident in the bedroom in order to address this kind of issue... surely the guy has at least some responsibility? And although I know its essential to be confident in the bedroom - it becomes so much harder when you are feeling like your efforts aren't enough anyway.

I would have been more understanding if he had long been asking me to do X or Y and I always refused, but it is not like that in the slightest.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I have to strongly disagree and you and Mavash are looking at it completely the wrong way.
> 
> What if he said "why are you reading the romance novel or watching a romantic movie when you can live out real romance with me"? Would you give up reading and watching movies?
> 
> ...


I would live out real romance in a heartbeat over some stupid soppy chick flick. That doesn't have anything to do with my sexual needs though. I get turned on when watching certain types of porn on the odd occasion. I have watched it together with him - it was hot. I am not a teenage girl that is going to get all hot and bothered during the Notebook...?! 

It is about him choosing to go upstairs to watch porn when I'm in the shower, rather than joining me for some fun.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Chaturbate? If that's what I think it is, that's a wee bit more than just porn use.
> 
> Looking at porn is one thing. Sex chatting with live women is quite another.
> 
> Have a read at my story (link in my sig) to see just what porn use can lead to in some guys. Your husband is well on his way down the slippery slope, I am sorry to say.


Yeah, the "chaturbate" stuff is over the line IMO. That's beyond porn. He is talking to real-life, local women!


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Here we go....
> 
> She has changed just about everything she possibly can to ensure her guy is satisfied enough to not turn to porn so much, yet he still does.



She can do all kinds of freaky things in bed, but she can't be every woman there is. She can't be white, black, asian, small-breasted, large-breasted, etc. all at once. Then you are completely missing the "problem" here. There is no problem. It's just added entertainment.




> My H did this to me 10 minutes after we finished having sex once. It made me want to not have sex with him anymore because I felt my efforts were not good enough.


OK, if you cooked a nice dinner, but afterwards your husband went to the fridge to get some ice cream for dessert would you be so upset? 

You can take it personally if you want to, but all you are doing is causing yourself grief over something that doesn't have anything to do with you. You can give him the best sex of his entire life and he will still want to look at porn. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong and it doesn't mean that he's some sick person. 

You want a man that has no interest in porn? Marry a man who's asexual.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

silvertime said:


> I would live out real romance in a heartbeat over some stupid soppy chick flick. That doesn't have anything to do with my sexual needs though.



But it DOES have to do with a man's sexual needs. Men are much more focused on visual stimulation than women are, and some women have a hard time understanding this. I have seen long horrendous arguments on TAM over this issue because some people just don't get it. 

Now, you would live out a real romance in a heartbeat over some "chick flick". Great. Now would you do that twice a day? Three times a day? There's a time for romance, a time to read books, and a time to watch movies. After sex, maybe a guy wants to relax and passively watch sex, rather than jump in all over again. 




> It is about him choosing to go upstairs to watch porn when I'm in the shower, rather than joining me for some fun.


I certainly understand your complaint here, and it might make me angry too, but also depends on a few things. If you already had sex that morning, don't expect him to always be up and ready the rest of the day. How much stamina do you think most men have??


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Silvertime, what do YOU think about this sex chatting he's doing??? You do know that is NOT 'just porn', right?


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Laila619 said:


> Yeah, the "chaturbate" stuff is over the line IMO. That's beyond porn. He is talking to real-life, local women!


Maybe. Maybe not.

The site in question is organized as a video chat site, but--

-The people on the other end (could be a woman, could be a couple, could be a man) are ostensibly live, some are pre-recorded commercial feeds designed to appear to be live amateurs.
-Although there is a chat component to the page, it's a group chat (any viewers can also contribute to the chat) and interaction, while available, is not required...even on the part of the person(s) on camera (which is what makes those pre-recorded feeds possible).
-While the person(s) on screen may indeed be local, that may also be on the other side of the planet.

That's no to say that it may be any less personally objectionable to the OP. it's just to say that, if we're going to make statements to her about what he "is" doing, we should do so based on facts, not assumptions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Silvertime, what do YOU think about this sex chatting he's doing??? You do know that is NOT 'just porn', right?


The standard porn didn't shock me as much as the chaturbate thing. It is what threw me over the edge... 

We spoke about it last night and he said that he only ever watched, never interacted, never chatted. And that he just randomly scanned through the cams - didn't do a search for locals in the area.... 

Of course it is easy to lie about these things though, and right now I am a little cautious of what he says, so who knows. I just think even if that is the case, over time it may develop in to more than just watching. I DEFINITELY think it is over the line - I said in no uncertain terms that I can't cope with that. 

He thinks I'm over reacting about nothing but said that since it hurts me he won't do it anymore.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> But it DOES have to do with a man's sexual needs. Men are much more focused on visual stimulation than women are, and some women have a hard time understanding this. I have seen long horrendous arguments on TAM over this issue because some people just don't get it.
> 
> Now, you would live out a real romance in a heartbeat over some "chick flick". Great. Now would you do that twice a day? Three times a day? There's a time for romance, a time to read books, and a time to watch movies. After sex, maybe a guy wants to relax and passively watch sex, rather than jump in all over again.
> 
> ...


I get what you said in the previous post about it being impossible to be all varieties of women. That makes sense. I do not expect him to stop having a sex drive, to stop having an interest in women. 

I don't really agree with the above here though... and in this shower example we hadn't had sex that day. 

I understand the stamina for men decreases a little over time - but he's a healthy, fit guy. 

Don't you think it's slightly unfair that while he was in his prime I helped him out very, very often - constant sex to the point of feeling raw... and now that I am maturing sexually and want it more - he turns to the pc rather than to me? I know he may not be able to keep up with me but we could still have a lot of fun trying. 

I enjoy my alone time. I give him space too. But I do expect to take priority over a computer monitor when it comes to sex. I think the vows we made to each other included the physical side of love, don't you?


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

silvertime said:


> But I do expect to take priority over a computer monitor when it comes to sex. I think the vows we made to each other included the physical side of love, don't you?


And you should expect that, thats what a loving, healthy relationship is about. 

Tell him you would like him to seek help because this is interfering with your marriage. If he refuses to, then you need to decide if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life, playing second fiddle to a screen.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> Porn is highly addictive and while casual viewing is OK, in my opinion, obsessive porn watching can be harmful, like excessive use of anything.
> 
> Here's an interesting piece on porn and how it can affect you physically:
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...rn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-growing-problem


I am going to be perfectly blunt about this subject.....

Here is a clip from that site:

Is anxiety really the cause? Here's a simple test: Try to masturbate (alone) using no porn and no fantasy—only sensual touch. Use the same speed and pressure as you would during intercourse. How erect is your penis without porn? If your penis is not fully erect, or it takes effort to become erect, then the chances are that anxiety is not the source of your problems. Persistent performance problems can certainly lead to anxiety, however. As one man said after he recovered following three months without masturbation or porn,

THIS AUTHOR IS TOTALLY IDIOTIC....If you don't become fully erect from touch alone you have a porn problem?.......Men do not work that way...

Except for morning wood, and perhaps friction from tight clothing, men require some mental stimulation to become erect....

Is this a surprise?

Do women just become spontaneously aroused for no reason? Not very often.....

This is just another load of crap from the anti porn crowd...

How many women masturbate with absolutely no sexual imagery in their minds during the act? My guess would be NONE.... 

The mind is the PRIMARY sex organ, and no arousal can happen without sexual thoughts.....

To the OP I must say that the chat component of the porn site may be a problem...I would probably object to my wife on a sex chat site....

His looking at porn, if it doesn't interfere with your sex life it shouldn't be viewed as a problem....

Many women are uneasy with their men looking at porn. 

Half say their men masturbate to porn and cheat them of their share of his sexual energy, and half say their men get horny looking at porn and take out their excess libido on their poor suffering wives.... 

I can say that early in my marriage I could have wonderful sex 3 times in a morning, and still have my head turned by a pretty girl on my drive to work.....Was I being satisfied by my wife? ABSOLUTELY....Then why the interest in a pretty girl on the sidewalk?....Because I am a GUY....Guess what, we are sexual and visual beings......Isn't part of the reason you wear high heels and flattering clothes to catch that guys eye on his drive to work?

Stop trying to outwit or circumvent basic male sexuality, get in tune with it and your sex life will be MUCH happier....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> I am going to be perfectly blunt about this subject.....
> 
> Here is a clip from that site:
> 
> ...


Thanks. I hear what you're saying. I don't agree with all of that anti porn stuff though I think it is impossible to deny the addictiveness of it. 

I disagree about some of your generalisations though. I do get aroused randomly for no reason. I have masturbated many times just from the feel - without ANY imagery in my head, am I the only woman that does this? Its not that I have anything against imagination or fantasy or that I NEVER imagine stuff, but sometimes it is just all about needing to feel good and relishing in that. 

I don't deny that men need visual/mental stimulation. Sometimes I feel less confident and able to strut my stuff for him to turn him on when I am think about the types of women he generally looks at and that makes me feel silly and inadequate... but that is entirely my problem, not his. 

Porn interfering with our sex life, and him using webcam/chat sites are the only issues I have that are his problem, IMO. So :iagree:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I do get aroused randomly for no reason. I have masturbated many times just from the feel - without ANY imagery in my head, am I the only woman that does this? Its not that I have anything against imagination or fantasy or that I NEVER imagine stuff, but sometimes it is just all about needing to feel good and relishing in that."


No, you are not the only woman who does this. And surprise surprise! There are men who do this, too! Many men have never just given their own body a chance to do its thing without porn. They think they "need" porn for a "better experience". When in fact, they have never given healthy masturbation (ie: making love to your own body and being focused on yourself, rather than porn or fantasy) a chance.

Silvertime....my husband and I don't watch porn, except together. He is a huge sexual beast, yet he understands that flashing images don't many anything and are NOT the hi-light of his sexual experience. So please don't listen to people try to tell you that "all men need/watch/want porn and will do it behind your back".

The fact that your husband's story changes every time you talk to him about it shows that he is just being squirrely and doesn't want to change his habits. So - - what are you going to do with that information? He doesn't WANT to change his habits. Really make sure you understand this, ok?


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

I never considered myself much of a feminist - but these topics really bring out an imbalance in the world, doesn't it?! The focus so often is on the fact that men can't help it - it's an instinctual urge etc etc - and that women must just deal with it. Women are labelled as crazy or controlling, possessive freaks. 

And that comparison with women perving over the boys in movies... I love a bit of Brad Pitt without his shirt on in Fight Club or something, but it doesn't arouse me, and it certainly doesn't make me orgasm. Surely that is more comparable to men enjoying the pretty girls in bikinis in same movies more than them watching porn?

Anyway... he said it's more of a habit that happens - check email, check facebook, look at some naked ladies - rather than something he really NEEDS. He doesn't think it affects our sex life, even though I am pretty sure it has been... i.e. the times I've been waiting for him in bed only to end up falling asleep because he's been at the computer so long. 

He says he will stop doing it for me to show me that he doesn't need it, to let me build up some trust and that it doesn't affect our sex life. There's more work to be done from both sides but we shall see.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"He says he will stop doing it for me to show me that he doesn't need it, to let me build up some trust and that it doesn't affect our sex life."


That's great!

Now if only he will come to you when he feels weak and wants to try to sneak back into doing it and talk to you about it...but most likely, he won't. He will just sneak it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm probably not.

He (like many men on this issue) doesn't really care that it bothers you, because he is only thinking of his own feelings and considers yours silly, while of course, considering his own to be valid.

I really think you will need to ask yourself: what if he doesn't stop? Can you handle this or not? If you can, how will you adjust your thinking in order to be ok with it?


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

If he is just watching it and doing nothing else, then I would not worry about it. It seems your sex life is just fine, but it does sound like you two need MC just to work through your issues.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

silvertime said:


> The standard porn didn't shock me as much as the chaturbate thing. It is what threw me over the edge...
> 
> We spoke about it last night and he said that he only ever watched, never interacted, never chatted. And that he just randomly scanned through the cams - didn't do a search for locals in the area....
> 
> ...


To me, this would be a dealbreaker. It was, in fact. I kicked my husband out of the house. This is a lot worse than just watching porn. You DO know that, right?? 

If I were you, I would be snooping via keylogger and phone spyware to find out the extent of what he's up to. You have no evidence right now that he's 'just watching' and not participating, so of course that's what he's going to tell you. Unless you have a keylogger, he can easily cover his tracks too.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Please take with a grain of salt.....

This topic has probably filled up more space on TAM than anything except sxxt or swxxxow....

It will probably quickly run into 15 pages of classic die hard porn haters (you know who you are) and others like myself who say porn is primarily a male pursuit, due to the highly visually oriented male sex drive....And if it doesn't interfere with the users OTHER life pursuits is pretty much harmless....

Yes, I think every guy has the RIGHT to look at a little porn if he chooses.....Others will say one naked boob and the slippery slope to perversion and a sexless marriage has begun...

As you seem to have already made up your mind which camp you are in, sit back and enjoy the fireworks........

the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> First, this :"and half say their men get horny looking at porn and take out their excess libido on their poor suffering wives...."
> 
> This is actually incredibly rude. The H shouldn't have to look at porn to get aroused to be intimate with is wife (especially those of us who are already ready and willing). How is the wife supposed to feel knowing that her H needs to look at porn in order to have sex with her? At that point she is just a "hole" for him to use. It's offensive to many women when this happens.
> 
> ...



Please read for CONTENT...I was giving opinions expressed by many WOMEN on TAM....Secondly, I was pointing out that a man is visually stimulated very easily, which leads to a basic interest in things sexual...Such as porn...And where did the assumption come from that all porn leads to masturbation?....I know PORN is a hot button issue, but can't we have a civil discourse...

the woodchuck


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Woodchuck - I don't think this thread should dissolve into a defense of porn. The original poster has some very real concerns about her relationship and up until the "porn defenders" weighed in the thread was going very well and the OP was getting some very good, and very healthy advice.

Yes, porn has been discussed "ad nauseum" here at TAM. Let's not go down that slippery slope on this thread. Let the OP get the advice on her relationship that she needs...and not discussion of whether porn is some inalienable right...


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

Let me tell you something that many people on this site may not realize for lack of communicating with their spouses/significant others about porn.

First of all..your husband loves you..I'm sure of it. Second of all..when men look at porn..it doesn't necessarily mean that they're fantasizing about being with the women they're looking at.

What I've learned after communicating with MY husband is that when he looks at porn...he's thinking about doing those things with me..and I'm the only one he wants to have sex with. 99 percent of the time..YOU are the woman in the porn..and he's imagining doing it with you.

Granted..some of the things they fantasize us doing are pretty crazy..and they really DON'T expect us to do those things...but one thing I have to say is...when my hubby tells me he looked at some porn and thought only of me doing those things...it makes for some pretty hot sex while he whispers them in my ear.

I may be wrong..but I doubt it. Maybe ask him what he's been watching and enjoy some of it with him......


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

What I should have said was 100 percent of the time..lol!! After talking to my hubby about my post he said, "99 percent??! Call it 100 percent...it's you and YOU only...if I look at porn..it's YOU I'm thinking about 100 percent!!"

Not all men are pigs and looking to have sex with women on porn. Most of the time they're just looking for something new for themselves to keep their wives/significant others happy in the bedroom...


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

I would agree with you, memyselfandi, that you are not experiencing any issues in your marriage, with your husband and porn.

But the OP is not in that boat. She has real concerns and wants advice on how to fix those concerns.

Again, this should not become a defense of porn. In her relationship porn has become a problem.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Occasional porn use is one thing, but it seems his is more than occasional. I think he is a little more connected with an object than he is with you, and thats where the main problem is. 

Here we are 4 pages later and I hope you have mentioned to him some counseling for you both. IMO, until he sees his actions are contributing to the marital problem and as long as he isn't willing to seek help, he will likely keep doing this. Unless you decide first what you will and will not tolerate for yourself.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> Woodchuck - I don't think this thread should dissolve into a defense of porn. The original poster has some very real concerns about her relationship and up until the "porn defenders" weighed in the thread was going very well and the OP was getting some very good, and very healthy advice.
> 
> Yes, porn has been discussed "ad nauseum" here at TAM. Let's not go down that slippery slope on this thread. Let the OP get the advice on her relationship that she needs...and not discussion of whether porn is some inalienable right...


Sparky....Don't the porn defenders have as much right to post as dyed in the wool porn haters like the one who posted this????

*I'm no prude, but I am open minded and I have come to see that modern day porn is probably one of the most destructive things to come along. It can affect marriages, it can affect relationships, it can affect both sexes self esteem, it causes sexual dissatisfaction, it can even lead to ED and difficulty orgasming.
*

(posted by you I believe)

No prude BUT, and then groundless statements with no scientific credibility.....I can see 15 pages looming on the horizon....

the woodchuck







the woodchuck


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

I would be fine with my wife's porn use as long as it didn't replace me sexually and didn't lead to an affair. I certainly wouldn't feel insecure. To me, it would just mean that seeing people hump is a turn on for her. I actually wish she would watch porn and learn some new techniques to try with me. 

This is a guy's perspective.

By the way, I've watched porn in the past and I'm trying to get it out of my life. Not because it is causing problems sexually in our marriage (she gets more sex than she probably wants), but because I do see the possibility for it to weaken my defenses in real life situations that might threaten my marriage. I don't want to go down "the slide" in other words -- and so I'm making an all-out effort to quit. I haven't told my wife about my porn issues, as she just wouldn't understand. She would freak out, feel insecure, think that she isn't good enough, sexy enough, wonder how she could compete with those airbrushed, silicon injected girls, and all that absolute nonsense that women think when they catch their husband looking at porn. 

Eventually she will either find out or I'll tell her and I'll have to deal with all that. Eventually. It would be so much easier if I found her looking at porn -- that would be absolutely amazing!


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Sparky....Don't the porn defenders have as much right to post as dyed in the wool porn haters like the one who posted this????



I would say - no. The OP wants help with the issue. She doesn't need you to push your agenda. That's not helpful.



Woodchuck said:


> *I'm no prude, but I am open minded and I have come to see that modern day porn is probably one of the most destructive things to come along. It can affect marriages, it can affect relationships, it can affect both sexes self esteem, it causes sexual dissatisfaction, it can even lead to ED and difficulty orgasming.
> *
> 
> (posted by you I believe)


Yes, posted by me...glad that it made such an impression on you.



Woodchuck said:


> No prude BUT, and then groundless statements with no scientific credibility.....



Ah...not impressed after all. Confused maybe? 

Those statements are not groundless, and not without scientific credibility. But I really don't care if you learn anything here or not. I'm more concerned with the OP finding some insight into what is best for her.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> I would say - no. The OP wants help with the issue. She doesn't need you to push your agenda. That's not helpful.


Actually Sparky, you are the one pushing an agenda here. The OP made it clear that she wasn't opposed to porn per se (just look at the title of this thread). You are entitled to your opinion but you are also threadjacking by turning it into an anti-porn crusade.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Actually Sparky, you are the one pushing an agenda here. The OP made it clear that she wasn't opposed to porn per se (just look at the title of this thread). You are entitled to your opinion but you are also threadjacking by turning it into an anti-porn crusade.



If you read only her first post then you are right about the OP's intentions. However her subsequent posts clearly spelled out the idea that her husbands porn use was becoming a problem.

I do not necessarily have an agenda AGAINST porn.

I do have an agenda against blame shifting and diversion and the arguments that porn is a "right" and therefore it can't be bad, or it's a diversion and that makes it a good thing, or that the real problem is her self esteem.

I have seen first hand the damage that porn can cause. I blog almost everyday on a site where 100's of men post about the damage that porn has caused in their lives.

Ultimately if porn is not a problem in your life, and by your life I am also referencing everyone who has responded to my posts, then that is fine for you.

But for the OP porn is an issue and she wants advice - she doesn't want to be told in yet some new way how she is defective.

We live in a nation that leans to the side of granting freedoms rather than restricting them. But that doesn't mean that the freedoms that are granted are not without their dark side. The wide availability of porn is somehow confused into the subject of freedom of speech, and so it gets a pass, but that does not mean that it is good to use it.

There are new studies that show how porn can be a negative force in a young man's life.

There are grassroots movements to eradicate porn from individuals lives.

These developing things do not have anything to do with religion. They have to do with real men, who have an unprecedented access to porn, and who are experiencing negative effects in their personal lives.

But if porn is a "harmless right" then why are these men having these experiences?

The OP said "I want to be okay with his porn use but I am not..."

She is right not to be okay with it. It's obvious that it is negatively affecting her life.

And why does she "want to be okay with it?" Because the current consensus is that porn is a harmless right, and that she should be okay with it. Unfortunately that pressure makes her feel like she is the one who is in the wrong, when, in my opinion, she is not.

These threads almost always wind up like this, and so I don't feel guilty that this one has gone the way of so many others. I will continue to hold up my end of the argument that porn is more of a negative effect in our lives then it is a positive one.

And when a poster writes that her husband is not engaged in the marriage - and that she thinks porn might be a problem in their lives - I will offer support, because I know first hand how porn can affect good people, and good marriages.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> I have seen first hand the damage that porn can cause. I blog almost everyday on a site where 100's of men post about the damage that porn has caused in their lives.


OMG honestly, you think you can be objective about this. You can't see how this has tainted your views on the subject just a bit? No matter what the OP wants, I'm pretty confident that your advice would be the same regarding porn. 



> But for the OP porn is an issue and she wants advice - she doesn't want to be told in yet some new way how she is defective.


I don't recall anyone saying that, but if they did, then it also doesn't help the situation to tell the OP that her husband is "defective".



> There are grassroots movements to eradicate porn from individuals lives.


There have been such movements to do this in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. But last I checked, the status that women held in such societies was abysmally low, and wives are not terribly happy overall.



> But if porn is a "harmless right" then why are these men having these experiences?


Because too much of ANYTHING even a good thing, is harmful. Food is certainly good for you, in fact it's necessary for life, but even too much food causes obesity, sickness, and death. Porn is no different in this regard.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Theseus said:


> OMG honestly, you think you can be objective about this. You can't see how this has tainted your views on the subject just a bit? No matter what the OP wants, I'm pretty confident that your advice would be the same regarding porn.



You say tainted - I say educated. I used to think that there was nothing at all wrong with porn. I do, in fact, still like porn, but I have decided that I do not like the longer lasting effects that it has on me.

I'm not trying to be objective. I am taking a position on something. Most everyone has an opinion on the subject and posts from their particular objectivity.




Theseus said:


> I don't recall anyone saying that, but if they did, then it also doesn't help the situation to tell the OP that her husband is "defective".



It's a judgement call. I saw how she described his actions and I went with my opinion.

I also responded in general to those who question the woman's self esteem. I have yet to hear an argument why this has anything to do with attitudes towards porn use. It is possible for a woman to have the highest self esteem and to have the opinion that she does not want her SO to use porn because she is all he needs.




Theseus said:


> There have been such movements to do this in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. But last I checked, the status that women held in such societies was abysmally low, and wives are not terribly happy overall.



I saw what you did there.... real good argument :wtf:




Theseus said:


> Because too much of ANYTHING even a good thing, is harmful. Food is certainly good for you, in fact it's necessary for life, but even too much food causes obesity, sickness, and death. Porn is no different in this regard.



If you go back and read all of the OP's posts I think it is clear that there is a sexual issue which is being further degraded by her SO's use of porn. Unfortunately this is a growing concern for many couples.

You do agree that too much porn is not good. I think that is what the OP was saying, and is also why she wanted help...


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## Jack99 (Nov 21, 2010)

I've watched a lot of porn, but never cheated. I really wish my wife was like you, liked sex, bjs, initiates, etc. Probably I would watch less porn if that was the case. But the fact is that porn has never been more freely available, and it light up the pleasure circuits. 

I'm not saying it's great he does it, but porn definitely is *not* cheating. 

One thing you might do is join him in viewing the porn. Maybe you will both get into together? Just a thought.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

> What I can't get my head around is needing the porn when you have a ready and willing woman just metres away (or minutes away, depending). And yes, I am aware that porn and sex are not the same thing. But I feel as though this is interfering with our sex life.


In my opinion, the OP is dealing with a husband who is addicted to porn and possibly sex chat with "live" people. I've struggled with porn (never the "live" thing, which I believe goes beyond porn into interaction with real people, albeit from a safe distance). Just to help you understand, women sometimes do not realize how a man's sexual systems works. There were days when I could easily MB to orgasm multiple times in a row in the period of only 30 minutes if the porn I was viewing was very erotic/stimulating. So it doesn't surprise me when the OP says after having sex twice her husband still had the urge to go and watch porn/chat or whatever. 

It has to do with the chemical releases in the brain and often that means keeping the adrenaline levels up so there is another rush soon.

What I believe needs to change how her husband finds this chemical release. Through counseling (if he is willing) he could understand what is happening to him (why he is addicted and responds the way he does) and then begin to change what actually turns him on. He is lucky that he has a wife like you who is quite open and sexually active. My wife has a much lower drive than you do and isn't nearly as adventurous. That will make it a little easier for him if he goes through counseling.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> If you read only her first post then you are right about the OP's intentions. However her subsequent posts clearly spelled out the idea that her husbands porn use was becoming a problem.
> 
> *I do not necessarily have an agenda AGAINST porn.*
> I do have an agenda against blame shifting and diversion and the arguments that porn is a "right" and therefore it can't be bad, or it's a diversion and that makes it a good thing, or that the real problem is her self esteem.
> ...


I must play the BS card here Sparkey...68% of your posts on TAM are anti porn...Looks like an agenda to me.......

the woodchuck


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

I really appreciate all of the responses. It has been great to see different sides to the story... I've never used discussion forums for this type of personal issue before and it really has been helpful. 

We had a good weekend together, re-connecting and talking a lot. After the initial conversation H was understandably angry with me for snooping like I did, and he was also embarrassed/ashamed (granted only because I found the stuff, not because he thinks its wrong) - so the first conversation wasn't as open as the rest of the weekend. 

"Arguments" aside - I am glad that some so-called "pro porn" people weighed in on the discussion too. It's good having a male perspective on this, and using this type of forum is no good if I only hear those views that exactly match my own. 

Some of the comments I find mildly irritating - I don't think that looking at a girl on the side of the road is the same as actively looking up naked chicks getting down together.... but also, as much as H and I talked - we could talk from now until eternity and we'd still not see eye to eye on this topic, I would still not understand things. I think this is just one of those things that men and women will always see differently? I'd almost like to be a man for a day just to have a better understanding! 

Porn is addictive, in the same way that anything that results in a release of feel-good hormones is addictive. The never-ending nature of the internet, with super high speed broadband, means that that new and exciting "rush" is just a nanosecond and a click away. Sometimes I have found an afternoon has disappeared while I have been on Stumbleupon or Pinterest. That is not the same AT ALL, but, it is the only thing I can use to make sense of it. Pro-porn guys - does that make sense? Even though I've stumbled through 20 boring pages of "20 things to make with a mason jar" - I keep clicking because the next page might be AMAZING. 

Yes, the title of this thread is a little misleading. I do HONESTLY wish I was ok with porn - because I am constantly told that it is normal and there is something wrong with me for being against it - but I have now accepted that right now I am not ok with it, and that that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. That isn't to say that in a while, once some ground rules have been established and I am happy that things are ok between us, I won't one day be ok with it. 

I think the sneakiness of things has been the biggest problem, and spending so much time and effort convincing me that he is somehow different to every other guy out there - he did that so much I obviously started believing it, and now that this stuff has come out, it has come as a shock. I should have known it was an act... he would take huge encouragement just to agree with me that Megan Fox (or whoever) was hot. He's been too scared of opening up his more sexual/male/"dirtier" side <<I know that referring to it as a dirty side does nothing to encourage openness and honesty - but I don't mean dirty to be a bad thing>> for fear of hurting my feelings. 

I have suggested watching porn together and it has been only in the last few weeks that H has taken me up on this. Before, I would suggest watching the late night porno or something and he'd act totally uninterested. I guess it's pretty funny now that I took this to mean that he wasn't so fussed about porn! Sometimes when I would be waiting for H in bed and he'd be at the pc - I'd make a joke about how he can leave the porn because he's got the real thing right here - and he'd act offended I'd even suggest he was watching it. 

As a contrast... H's brother is wildly open about his porn use. He loves it and loves sharing it with everyone who will listen. He keeps some material in the bathroom for easy access - and his wife just laughs and acts totally fine with it. I know nothing about their relationship other than what you see on the surface, but that attitude seems vaguely more healthy. I say vaguely because he may be a little too open about it, but at least everyone knows where they stand. 

We've spoken about things a ton - he's opened up a lot and told me how he never wanted to watch with me because he was worried that I'd think he liked what he saw more than me, and he was worried about me feeling insecure. I think my immature levels of insecurities when we first got together really made a lasting impression on him.... I have changed so much and gotten over the majority of my insecure crap, but this clearly hasn't registered with him yet! 

The thing is, I am a bit insecure still, I know that much is obvious. But I think there's almost also a vanity side to it too?! Does that make sense? Like, how dare you need to look at those naked girls when you've got THIS who is willing to do THAT, THAT and THIS to you?! I have always had a high sex drive and it is only increasing. I've always been open minded and been keen to try all kinds of things... I've been made to feel dirty for having suggested watching porn together, when now I know that he was, I don't know, worried that I'd see he liked it? 

I think this is twisted thinking that will get me nowhere! I have been considering therapy, I think this may be the final push to get me there. I haven't suggested MC yet. It is something I will consider but I just want to see how things go for a while... 

Regarding chaturbate... there seems to be 2 separate "bits" to that site. You can join the webcam side - which is where H was - where the majority of users will just scan through cams and watch what they like. They can chat but its not private messaging - unless you specifically buy that privilege in a "private show" or what-have-you, and no "buying" has been happening. Then there's the "dating" side - which you need to sign up separately to use... and that's not the side H was on. 

Ashamedly, I looked at each of the "profiles" of the girls he had looked at... and they were from all over the world. He definitely wasn't seeking out locals. He hadn't chatted to them in this instance either, and I don't believe he would have.... but again, only he knows that for sure at this stage. 

Sorry for the mammoth post! Thanks guys for all of your advice... I'd love to ask a bit more though... 

For those who have been through this kind of thing... how do you balance giving H more of what he wants <<visual stimulation, more suggestive clothing, becoming more at one with the sex kitten inside you etc>> with avoiding feelings of rejection if he doesn't notice or if he isn't interested at that moment? 

Also, men - do you ever feel too much pressure from your wives to perform? How do you cope? I feel hopelessly stuck between 2 extremes - either waiting on H to initiate most of the time, leaving me frustrated from not enough sex and leaving him feeling as though he isn't wanted... or when I am more open about things and initiate more, then he feels pressured to perform more often than he can handle and tries to go through the motions for my benefit - which doesn't work because I can tell.

Is it all just communication? Being in a safe enough space to discuss these things? I am definitely starting to realise that we do not talk about sex as much or in as much depth as we should!


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

silvertime said:


> The thing is, I am a bit insecure still, I know that much is obvious. But I think there's almost also a vanity side to it too?! Does that make sense? Like, how dare you need to look at those naked girls when you've got THIS who is willing to do THAT, THAT and THIS to you?!


Well, once again I'll use an example I've used before. If you wanted to watch a romantic movie, would it be fair for your boyfriend to say "how dare you look at romance there when you have me willing to live it out for real with you??"

Sometimes we men want to be entertained, rather than doing the entertaining. Another example: sometimes men prefer to watch sports instead of playing them! In that regard, there's no difference between sports and porn to most of us.




> I've been made to feel dirty for having suggested watching porn together, when now I know that he was, I don't know, worried that I'd see he liked it?


I agree, that's not terribly fair to you. But he might react that way because you, or his mother, or someone told him that porn was "dirty" or "perverted" and so he's grown accustomed to only watching it in secret.



> Is it all just communication? Being in a safe enough space to discuss these things? I am definitely starting to realise that we do not talk about sex as much or in as much depth as we should!


I agree, and you definitely want to open up to each other MUCH more before you actually get married. If you two are sexually incompatible, you need to know now.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

Well, we are married... and we do discuss those things - but obviously not enough or to the extent that is necessary. When we talk about sex it's usually about things we want to try, things we enjoyed doing with each other previously... i.e. not as deep and "meaningful" as it should be. 

Please, please, please try and find a different example!!!! This is NOT the same at all. H loves me to bits, and he has his sweet moments that make me melt inside - but he is not a romantic. He knows this and is the first to admit it. I am 100% sure that he'd love it if I watched romantic movies all day long if it meant I wouldn't ever ask for a candlelight dinner/romantic gesture again. But that isn't how it works.

Yes there are obviously limits to how much of what he watches I can perform in real life, and I can't be every type of woman on the planet... but at least there are similar things/variations I can do that are still along the same lines to get the same desired effect. And I am willing to do these things. And I want to do these things with him often... 

H has no desire to fill the house with candles, sprinkle rose petals up the stairs to the bed, get lost at war and become reunited with me after I've nursed him back to health decades later, or other examples of romantic gestures seen in movies. It just isn't comparable to women dealing with their men watching porn - I think your point gets lost when you use this example because it is a bit insulting. 

As far as the rest goes, passively watching sex instead of engaging in it - that is something I accept, even though I don't necessarily understand it in that way.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I must play the BS card here Sparkey...68% of your posts on TAM are anti porn...Looks like an agenda to me.......
> 
> the woodchuck


I'm drawn to what interests me.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

silvertime said:


> He's been too scared of opening up his more sexual/male/"dirtier" side


There is a book 

Male Sexuality: Why Women Don't Understand It-And Men Don't Either 

by Dr. Bader and its about how men are afraid to express their dirtier side. It's a good read.


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## silvertime (May 23, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> There is a book
> 
> Male Sexuality: Why Women Don't Understand It-And Men Don't Either
> 
> by Dr. Bader and its about how men are afraid to express their dirtier side. It's a good read.


Thanks, I'll check it out!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> Yes, I think every guy has the RIGHT to look at a little porn if he chooses.....


...and every WOMAN has the RIGHT not to be in a relationship with him, if he does!

Sorry, but if a man wants to view it while living alone, he's perfectly within his 'right' to do so. But when he's in a relationship, _he needs to tone that sh!t *DOWN*_!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> There is a book
> 
> Male Sexuality: Why Women Don't Understand It-And Men Don't Either
> 
> by Dr. Bader and its about how men are afraid to express their dirtier side. It's a good read.


Very interesting book, Sparkyjim. I haven't finished reading it, yet, but it appears to give some much needed insight on the subject.

I rarely get involved in these topics on TAM anymore, because they always tend to devolve into the same pro vs anti point scoring, rather than both sides gaining any better understanding on the subject.

I think one of the biggest misunderstandings is the reason _why _many women get upset when their SOs regularly watch porn, which is usually attributed to the woman's lack of self-esteem and need to control her partner. IMO, these reactions go much deeper than that, and are far more complex, and it's unhelpful for those reactions to be simply dismissed the way they (often) are.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Vega said:


> ...and every WOMAN has the RIGHT not to be in a relationship with him, if he does!


In the file cabinet of life, I believe this is filed under "Duh."



> Sorry, but if a man wants to view it while living alone, he's perfectly within his 'right' to do so. But when he's in a relationship, _he needs to tone that sh!t *DOWN*_!


Can't _quite_ agree. As with his consumption of any form of entertainment, his consumption of porn should be at whatever level he likes (key words here) _withou it impacting the relationship_. Once the relationship takes a hit from too much energy being devoted to *any* pastime, that pastime should be ratcheted back. The level at which an impact is felt can and will vary from relationship to relationship. Believe it or not, there are some women who have no problem with their husbands viewing porn relatively frequently/at roughly their pre-relationship level (again, key words) _as long as their desires are not being ignored in favor of viewing porn_.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

silvertime said:


> and he was also embarrassed/ashamed (granted only because I found the stuff, not because he thinks its wrong) -


And this is why he will keep doing what he is doing. Kinda like a kid who gets in trouble for doing something...they are sorry they got caught not really sorry they did it, because they see nothing wrong with what they are doing. 

In the end it will come down to what you will and will not tolerate in your marriage. Same for him.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Sigh. You're failing to understand your husband because you assume, like many people, that masturbation, with our without porn, is a "last resort". You can't understand why your obviously HD husband can have sex with you, enjoy it, and still look at porn/masturbate.

You assume that because you were in the shower, and he was horny, that he needed to seek you out.

The issue is that for a lot of men masturbation and porn are not a substitutes for sex, they fill an entirely different, and separate, sexual desire all together. It's no different than the women who are able to embrace both their alone time with a virbator AND their sexual time with their lover, and without conflict.

Do some men jerk off and watch porn because of dissatisfied, low, or no sex lives? Absolutely. There are men who only "resort" to these things out of desperation.

However there are plenty of men who can enjoy a healthy, exciting sex life with a partner and STILL enjoy a healthy, exciting sex life with themselves. Again, see the women and vibrator example.

When I want to masturbate, I masturbate. When I want to have sex, I have sex. The two aren't in competition. I have a totally autonomous sexual relationship with myself that, get this, *has nothing to do with my wife*. 

You state that once your husband got the job and his confidence back, your sex life improved. You've been enjoying it, and so has he. Yet you STILL feel you are owed total sexual autonomy of your husband. It doesn't matter that you clarified the sex issue, you still are possessive, and borderline obsessive, with your husband's every single sexual activity.

Why is that? If this is an issue of you being sexuality dissatisfied, address that. You are his wife and you deserve to be pleased.

But if you are sexually satisfied, why are you obsessed with his personal alone time? He had a sexual relationship with himself LONG before he met you. Why exactly is he expected to devote the totality of his sexual expression solely to you, when he clearly has other needs that look to have nothing to do with you at all?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> No, you are not the only woman who does this. And surprise surprise! There are men who do this, too! Many men have never just given their own body a chance to do its thing without porn. They think they "need" porn for a "better experience". When in fact, they have never given healthy masturbation (ie: making love to your own body and being focused on yourself, rather than porn or fantasy) a chance.


I agreed with Woodchuck's entire post, save this portion.

I can definitely attest to this being a truth for some men. When I discovered masturbation I got off to the sensation. I didn't fantasize, and I didn't have access to pornagraphy. It wasn't until I got well into my teens that I realize this apparently wasn't typical. So for me, for quite a long time, fantasy and porn had almost nothing to do with my masturbatory habits. I didn't start getting into more typical guy ways of self pleasure, i.e. porn and fantasy, until my late 20's.

And even now, in my early 30's, I don't need a single visual to become aroused, or complete the act. So I can totally buy that some women and men are able to masturbate to orgasm without sexual fantasy or visual aide.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Porn is like a drug - VERY easy to get addicted ....and ultimately disappointed when real life doesn't live up to the make-believe world of porn. It desensitizes us and causes marriage issues like ED, obsessive behavior, and creates a false view of the opposite sex, not to mention it is degrading to women.

Push back and live real life, not staged. You'll be happier.

My two cents', FWIW


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