# Deciphering the 5 love languages



## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I took the 5 love languages quiz yesterday and my main LL is physical touch. My wife just sent me her results and hers is acts of service. Are we compatible? Am I supposed to become her personal servant? 
Advice on how to proceed would be appreciated


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

My LL is acts of service. That means I feel loved when he does things for me that help and very unloved when he makes more work for me or doesn't do his part.

You don't have to be her servant, it can be something small but significant to make her day easier- without having to be asked makes the most impact. Also don't make more work for her, clean up after yourself, etc. 

Looking back, is there an area she complains about often? Dishes, cooking, taking out the trash? Is there something on your to do list you haven't gotten around to?

Edit to add this for help http://preengaged.com/how-to-love-your-acts-of-service-partner-love-language-practical-tips-part-4/


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

As for compatibility, it depends on how much you are willing to speak each other's LL. 

I know it's hard to see things from someone else's eyes but think of you NOT doing her LL as the same as you not getting physical touch.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I do at least 90% of all the cooking. I also make sure the kitchen is always clean and ready to be used ie; dishes washed and put away, dishwasher loaded/unloaded as necessary and all cooking supplies put away where they belong. 
I also make sure the kids are up in the morning and ready for school, garbage is put out and the driveway is cleared of snow.
I work full time during the day and have a part time cabinet business yet still make sure I take care of these household duties as they are priorities in my eyes. My wife also travels for her job a week every couple months so I take care of everything without so much as a complaint (it has to be done so I do it). If my wife asks me to help her with things I usually drop what I'm doing to help.
My LL is physical touch. To get that I am almost always the one to initiate it. For me, it makes me feel I'm just taken for granted and feel like a servant and not a husband. 
What else should I consider?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

My H is physical touch, and I'm tied with words or affirmation and acts of service. 

I love it when he does housework. Coming home to find that the dishes are done is awesome. Other things he does is get out to pump gas for me, open my car door if he's driving, give me foot rubs, check on me if I'm busy to see if he can get me something to eat or drink, refill my wine glass for me, let the dogs in/out, feed the dogs, make my coffee in the morning, take care of the bills. 

The best thing though is to just ask her. She may not want you to do anything I listed.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

One big failing of the book is categorizing sex as part of touch. I think this is all wrong, sex is its own category which can (and should) include aspects of the other 5.

Which means that you needing touch is distinct from you needing sex. Your wife can touch you without it being a prelude to sex. And you can touch her without it being a request for sex. She could hold your hand when you are walking around a store, or you two could sit touching on the couch when watching tv.

Acts of Service is not the same as being her caretaker. All those household things you do are because the family and house need to be taken care of. You doing the dishes isn't something you are doing for her, you are doing it instead of her doing it.

To hit her Acts of Service button you have to do something for her. It could be brushing her hair (which would also get you some touch). You could build AoS into pre-sex by giving her a bath before you jump in bed. AoS could be washing her car, if that is something she normally would do for herself.

Look at the second highest LL you both have, and how strongly you scored on it. There may be overlap there. Perhaps both of you scored pretty high on Quality Time as a second LL. If so you could work on spending time together. There would be opportunities to link into the primary LL via the secondary.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Cool quiz, I remember reading this book.

OP, read what's on the website!! 

"Actions speak louder than words". Focus on that, little things you do around the house etc mean a lot to her. Do your best, but servant is a bit extreme. NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme.

Here is my results.
Your Scores
10 Quality Time
8 Physical Touch
7 Words of Affirmation
5 Acts of Service
0 Receiving Gifts


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

That's the thing. If I ask her I'm sure her response will be something like "you just want sex". She has told me in the past that I'm a sex maniac. Which I guess is true if want to have sex more than 2-3 times a month.
I do look after the dog (feed, let him in/out, vet and walks) I change the oil in her truck, I'll plug it in if its cold out I fill the washer fluid etc. I also drive the girls to/from gym if she's busy. I clean up after myself (it's my mess I'll clean it) when things around the house break I fix them (I do that for a living). I do clean the bathrooms occasionally as well. 
Don't get me wrong here, my wife is a very hard worker as well. If I happen to be working she will do things I normally take care of without complaint. She also does all my book keeping as I'm self employed and she's a CPA. 
We've been together almost 30 years now and married for 13 1/2 years now. I have only forgot our anniversary once and have never forgotten her birthday. 
I just haven't got enough hours in a day to take care of much more. Hell, I even make sure there is coffee ready for her in the morning. Maybe she just doesn't feel it for me anymore? I love her but I just feel unappreciated. 
Thoughts??


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Has she always accused you of just wanting sex, or is that recent?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> That's the thing. If I ask her I'm sure her response will be something like "you just want sex". She has told me in the past that I'm a sex maniac. Which I guess is true if want to have sex more than 2-3 times a month.


No, you are not, not even close.

I don't even consider myself a sex maniac.....and I'm at 5-7 times a WEEK. 3-4 seems to be the average around these ways.

Look, your wife needs to accept and recognize that to a men, sex is the ultimate expression of love. You need to sell her on this ASAP. She also needs to recognize that intimacy is priority #1 in a relationship (IMO). Without it or lack there off will break just about any relationship out there. 

She should know what's at risk, you either leaving or cheating. 

I suggest you NOT accept this and tell her how important it is. If she doesn't act.......I would tell her "I'm thinking about divorce".

I wouldn't want to be in a sexless relationship, neither I would recommend for ANYONE to be in one.



thenub said:


> I do look after the dog (feed, let him in/out, vet and walks) I change the oil in her truck, I'll plug it in if its cold out I fill the washer fluid etc. I also drive the girls to/from gym if she's busy. I clean up after myself (it's my mess I'll clean it) when things around the house break I fix them (I do that for a living). I do clean the bathrooms occasionally as well.
> Don't get me wrong here, my wife is a very hard worker as well. If I happen to be working she will do things I normally take care of without complaint. She also does all my book keeping as I'm self employed and she's a CPA.
> We've been together almost 30 years now and married for 13 1/2 years now. I have only forgot our anniversary once and have never forgotten her birthday.
> I just haven't got enough hours in a day to take care of much more. Hell, I even make sure there is coffee ready for her in the morning. Maybe she just doesn't feel it for me anymore? I love her but I just feel unappreciated.
> Thoughts??


Sounds like she is unreasonable.

If she loves you, she needs to take steps to show you love!!! 

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN LOVE applies to EVERYONE and ANY love language IMO.

Sit her down and talk to her about all of the above. Keep it cool and keep a healthy adult conversation going....if it goes down south or you sense anger from her or you.......step away and come back when things are cool.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

thenub said:


> That's the thing. If I ask her I'm sure her response will be something like "you just want sex". She has told me in the past that I'm a sex maniac. Which I guess is true if want to have sex more than 2-3 times a month.
> I do look after the dog (feed, let him in/out, vet and walks) I change the oil in her truck, I'll plug it in if its cold out I fill the washer fluid etc. I also drive the girls to/from gym if she's busy. I clean up after myself (it's my mess I'll clean it) when things around the house break I fix them (I do that for a living). I do clean the bathrooms occasionally as well.
> Don't get me wrong here, my wife is a very hard worker as well. If I happen to be working she will do things I normally take care of without complaint. She also does all my book keeping as I'm self employed and she's a CPA.
> We've been together almost 30 years now and married for 13 1/2 years now. I have only forgot our anniversary once and have never forgotten her birthday.
> ...


You're a _Caretaker_. You do all kinds of things for other people without being asked to do it. Thus you get no credit for doing it. I bet the kids even expect Dad to rescue them without even having to ask.

My kids learned to just declare something was wrong and I would then fix it. e.g. they'd walk in the door and announce their bike had a flat tire. So I'd go fix the flat because I want them to have nice things in good working order. My wife would mention that a closet door hinge was squeeky, so I'd run off and lube it.

You have to retrain your family to ask you for help and to ask you for special favors. You have to learn to say no sometimes, too. And you also have to learn to identify opportunities to teach everyone else some independence, such as teaching your kids to fix their own flat tires, or teach your wife where the washer fluid is in the garage and how to top it off in her own car.

I think you might be a Nice Guy. Read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by doc R. Glover. Also visit the support forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub said:


> What else should I consider?


Is there anything she has said? Might be a good opening, she sent you AoS as her LL so ask her to give some examples of what that means to her and ask her how she thinks you are doing meeting her needs. 

But don't look at it as being her servant anymore than you'd want her to look at meeting your needs as being your blow up doll. Do them out of love, tell her you want the same. 

There's other stuff to consider too if your efforts to speak her LL isn't getting through to her. If she has walls up, anger from the past or something that is upsetting her she might not be letting herself feel your love and efforts and give them back to you.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

John Gottman has a great book, "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work." I've read a lot of marriage books, but that one is the best. It's supposed to be read with your partner, but it works if you read it alone too. It's not super long (I read it in a day). I would suggest picking up a copy of it. If she will read it with you, great, if she won't, read it alone.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

A couple other things to consider. I suffer from sleep apnea, we have slept in the same bed since before we married. She has also changed her work schedule so she can be home early enough to get the girls to gymnastics. I have a Dr. appointment tomorrow and will ask him to refer me to a sleep clinic and also, along with my diabetes blood work get him to have my T levels checked. 
As I've said, I love my wife and want to remain a husband/father all living together. I don't want my acts of service to include divorce papers.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> A couple other things to consider. I suffer from sleep apnea, we have slept in the same bed since before we married. She has also changed her work schedule so she can be home early enough to get the girls to gymnastics. I have a Dr. appointment tomorrow and will ask him to refer me to a sleep clinic and also, along with my diabetes blood work get him to have my T levels checked.
> As I've said, I love my wife and want to remain a husband/father all living together. I don't want my acts of service to include divorce papers.


Look, there is a FINE line between "being used" and "act of service".

Right now, it seems like you are in the "being used' category.

Recognize current situation for what it is and don't dream about change or hope things will change. By all means make things happen and communicate the things you want to change....but after that, it's up to your partner TO actually change.

We all know MOST people don't change.

Think about what you will when they don't. Will you accept status quo for REST OF YOUR LIFE or will you look else where for things that you should already have all along (intimacy).

As for being used, TO ME, there is nothing worst than a person (especially a loved one) that uses people's niceness against them.....and always want more and more....

it takes a certain kind of a person to do that....


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Thor said:


> One big failing of the book is categorizing sex as part of touch. I think this is all wrong, sex is its own category which can (and should) include aspects of the other 5.
> 
> .


My impression is that Language of Touch is the non-sexual touch. Am I wrong?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

As it stands I'm pretty much getting neither


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Thor.
I've read NMMNG and MMSLP. I've started shutting down her **** tests and started backing off on cooking. I'll spend 3 days at the gym right after work so I can avoid cooking for a while.
What I do around the house I don't consider to be covert contracts. I do them mainly because they have to be done. As for servicing her truck. She knows her way around under the hood. Hell, (she even removed the transmission in her old Buick GS convertible) so that I know she can take care of. 
Both of our second highest LL's are quality time. Herein I think this could explain a lot. She's always said the kids come before anything. She constantly does everything for them and then complains they can't do things for themselves (girls 10&13). Maybe I should mention that once they move out who will be left?? 
Maybe she's harbouring resentment over the fact she makes more $$ than I do so I am expected to do more around the house. I just can't figure her out sometimes.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DoF said:


> Cool quiz, I remember reading this book.
> 
> OP, read what's on the website!!
> 
> ...


When I seen your results Dof.... I had to run & check my own... WOW.. are we ever similar...only off by 1 digit on 2 of them....I guess this explains why I often relate to many of the things you say... 




(*Me* ..........11 Quality time, 8 Physical Touch, 7 Words of Affirmation, 4 Acts of Service, 0 gifts) 
(*Husband*...10 Quality time, 9 Physical Touch, 5 Words of Affirmation, 5 Acts of Service, 1 gifts)





> *WandaJ said:* *My impression is that Language of Touch is the non-sexual touch. Am I wrong?*


 you are right.. it's NOT always about sex.. (write up below)..

I've always been high in touch yet didn't always have sex on my mind in the past..my H would run his fingers through my hair watching movies almost every night, I loved getting my back scratched.. the nights he got more frisky...reaching lower.. he always got me going though...it's surely the foreplayed love langauge if any of them are...


Speaking Love through Physical Touch ® 



> Keeping emotional love alive in a marriage makes life much more enjoyable. How do we keep love alive after the “in-love” emotions have evaporated? I believe it is by learning to speak each other’s “love language.” This week we will focus on physical touch.
> 
> For some husbands, when they hear the words physical touch, they immediately think of sex. But sexual intercourse is only one of the dialects of this love language. Holding hands, kissing, embracing, back rubs, or an arm around the shoulder are all ways of expressing love by physical touch.
> 
> ...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub said:


> Thor.
> I've read NMMNG and MMSLP. I've started shutting down her **** tests and started backing off on cooking. I'll spend 3 days at the gym right after work so I can avoid cooking for a while.
> What I do around the house I don't consider to be covert contracts. I do them mainly because they have to be done. As for servicing her truck. She knows her way around under the hood. Hell, (she even removed the transmission in her old Buick GS convertible) so that I know she can take care of.
> Both of our second highest LL's are quality time. Herein I think this could explain a lot. She's always said the kids come before anything.* She constantly does everything for them and then complains they can't do things for themselves (girls 10&13)*. Maybe I should mention that once they move out who will be left??
> Maybe she's harbouring resentment over the fact she makes more $$ than I do so I am expected to do more around the house. I just can't figure her out sometimes.


Is there stuff here you could help with? Help teach the kids? If there's something that she would be doing for them, you can go and teach them to do it instead? 

Find what areas and things make the most impact and do them. You have to speak her LL her way so if the things you are doing are not what's important to her they won't mean as much. I agree that she may view the chores and household tasks as just the basics, doing things that need to be done, and not the AoS she is looking for, doing something for her out of love.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I guess I'll start working on teaching the girls how to cook meals. My wife said when she was 11 she was able to cook thanksgiving dinner by herself. My wife will be out of town for a week at the end of this month so maybe a little bit of kitchen boot camp is in order. If they learn to cook it could free up time for me to work on other things in my wife's LL.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

thenub said:


> Hell, I even make sure there is coffee ready for her in the morning. Maybe she just doesn't feel it for me anymore? I love her but I just feel unappreciated.
> Thoughts??


My goodness for those whose LL is acts of service, you are a DREAMBOAT. 

Do you think she's taking you and all of the things you do for her and your family, for granted?

I would be _beyond elated_ at all of the things you do. TBH I'm a bit envious of your wife right now.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

My wife was lucky.... She was out of town when both girls were potty training. I had them trained in 3 days each.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> As it stands I'm pretty much getting neither


But you stick around.

With 0 consequences, you will continue to get more of the same.

It's time to reconsider your marriage and start communicating exactly what you need. 

You have to be able to put EVERYTHING on the line (marriage)......and even then, your wife might just laugh at you and say "go ahead".

Extreme times call for extreme measures.

I suggest you start looking in the mirror and start working on YOURSELF. Cause there is something wrong with you if you are willing to accept this type of relationship arrangement (IMO). Why be in a relationship if you are not going to get the BASICS of what most relationships offer (intimacy). 

That's just crazy. 

I would seriously question her love for you.....and when you do question it, question it with HER ACTIONS and not her words. It's easy to say "I love you"


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. She also said she would like to touch more but thinks I'll just want to have it lead to sex so she doesn't do it. She also stated that sex is a low priority for her. And that's why her LL acts of service. 
I replied by telling her it isn't healthy for us to go on this way and I'm going to keep working on me. I also suggested MC and if I'm still not what she wants maybe separation. 
Man it was hard to hit the send button, but it haas to be said. I'm sure she is probably in a panic and crying at her desk right now.
At least now it's out there so maybe we'll be able to talk about it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

thenub said:


> My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. She also said she would like to touch more but thinks *I'll just want to have it lead to sex* so she doesn't do it. She also stated that sex is a low priority for her. And that's why her LL acts of service.
> I replied by telling her it isn't healthy for us to go on this way and I'm going to keep working on me. I also suggested MC and if I'm still not what she wants maybe separation.
> Man it was hard to hit the send button, but it haas to be said. I'm sure she is probably in a panic and crying at her desk right now.
> At least now it's out there so maybe we'll be able to talk about it.


And so what if it does. Married couples are suppose to have sex to feel close and bond??? Very odd statement. 

I agree with DOF you need to set consequences and hold her to it. At the same time you need to work on those things she needs for her to feel satisfied in a realtionship. It's a two way street


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub said:


> My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. *She also said she would like to touch more but thinks I'll just want to have it lead to sex so she doesn't do it*. She also stated that sex is a low priority for her. And that's why her LL acts of service.
> I replied by telling her it isn't healthy for us to go on this way and I'm going to keep working on me. I also suggested MC and if I'm still not what she wants maybe separation.
> Man it was hard to hit the send button, but it haas to be said. I'm sure she is probably in a panic and crying at her desk right now.
> At least now it's out there so maybe we'll be able to talk about it.


I think it's good that she's talking, try not to look at the negatives, there's a lot of positive in there too.

There's a suggestion that I've read a few times where you schedule sex days. On the other days, she can be comfortable to touch, cuddle, kiss without thinking it will just lead to sex and you know when the next time if so you don't feel like you have to jump on every chance.

As for being always being exhausted, have you talked about why?


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

My husband liked touch, but it usually seemed to lead to sex, so if i wasn't in the mood for sex i would avoid physical affection. 

Sometimes, when he realized this was happening, he would just tell me, "I'm not in the mood for sex tonight. Do you want to cuddle and watch a movie?"

He got his affection, and i didn't feel pressured for sex. And if the sex happened anyway, so be it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> And so what if it does. Married couples are suppose to have sex to feel close and bond???


Because sometimes you just want to hug your spouse, hold their hand or cuddle with them without it always leading to sex. Also to know that their spouse wants to touch them without _just _wanting to get laid.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

She rearranged her work schedule so she could be off work to drive the girls to gymnastics. She now gets up at 5:15 everyday and tries to be in bed by 10:30 at night. Myself, I get up at 6:15 and can stay up until 1-2am if need be. I can get by on 4 hrs sleep no problem.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub said:


> She rearranged her work schedule so she could be off work to drive the girls to gymnastics. She now gets up at 5:15 everyday and tries to be in bed by 10:30 at night. Myself, I get up at 6:15 and can stay up until 1-2am if need be. I can get by on 4 hrs sleep no problem.


and she has a busy day in between? That would wear me out too. I can not function if I don't get enough sleep. It's not a choice or a weakness, it's just a fact. Some people can, some can't.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

thenub said:


> My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. She also said she would like to touch more but thinks I'll just want to have it lead to sex so she doesn't do it. She also stated that sex is a low priority for her. And that's why her LL acts of service.
> I replied by telling her it isn't healthy for us to go on this way and I'm going to keep working on me. I also suggested MC and if I'm still not what she wants maybe separation.
> Man it was hard to hit the send button, but it haas to be said. I'm sure she is probably in a panic and crying at her desk right now.
> At least now it's out there so maybe we'll be able to talk about it.


A man is plowing in a field when the mule stops. 
He tries ALL kinds of things and the mule just won't budge. 
So his neighbor comes along, who just happens to be the counties foremost mule trainer. He asks is he wants help.
The man, being greatful said yes.
So the neighbor walks over to the fence and pulls out a loose fence post, walks up to the mule and thumps him several times on the head.
The man looked his mule with his eyes spinning and said "well that didnt do much, did it?"
The neighbor looks at hims and says "Well...first you have to get their attention..."

_I daresay you have her attention now...be gentle, but be firm._


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I realize she sometimes just wants to cuddle and hold hands. The things is, when we are only having sex 2-3 TIMES PER MONTH!!!! I tend to be quite horny all the time. Stand alone bj's or hj's are about as common as finding a dandelion at the North Pole. So I try to get it when I think it's reasonable. 
Since we do not share a bed it makes spontaneous sex non existent. 
I'll be back often for advice as I can see things might get ugly before getting better.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub said:


> I realize she sometimes just wants to cuddle and hold hands. The things is, when we are only having sex 2-3 TIMES PER MONTH!!!! I tend to be quite horny all the time. Stand alone bj's or hj's are about as common as finding a dandelion at the North Pole. So I try to get it when I think it's reasonable.
> Since we do not share a bed it makes spontaneous sex non existent.
> I'll be back often for advice as I can see things might get ugly before getting better.


Can you both make your ideal schedule and then take them both and meet in the middle? Unless standalones are given to her too, I would concentrate on just mutual sex, making sure every time is enjoyable, with O, for her too.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> I realize she sometimes just wants to cuddle and hold hands. The things is, when we are only having sex 2-3 TIMES PER MONTH!!!! I tend to be quite horny all the time. Stand alone bj's or hj's are about as common as finding a dandelion at the North Pole. So I try to get it when I think it's reasonable.
> Since we do not share a bed it makes spontaneous sex non existent.
> I'll be back often for advice as I can see things might get ugly before getting better.


It's totally reasonable for you to want more sex. But if you want more sex and you want more touch, you're more likely to get one or the other if you treat them as separate things, and she knows they're separate. Otherwise, if she doesn't want sex (which seems to be a common situation for you guys), then you will get nothing. 

Just a little female perspective for you. My husband and i had the exact same LL mismatch.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> I do at least 90% of all the cooking. I also make sure the kitchen is always clean and ready to be used ie; dishes washed and put away, dishwasher loaded/unloaded as necessary and all cooking supplies put away where they belong.
> I also make sure the kids are up in the morning and ready for school, garbage is put out and the driveway is cleared of snow.
> I work full time during the day and have a part time cabinet business yet still make sure I take care of these household duties as they are priorities in my eyes. My wife also travels for her job a week every couple months so I take care of everything without so much as a complaint (it has to be done so I do it). If my wife asks me to help her with things I usually drop what I'm doing to help.
> My LL is physical touch. To get that I am almost always the one to initiate it. For me, it makes me feel I'm just taken for granted and feel like a servant and not a husband.
> What else should I consider?


Why wouldn't she take you for granted? You ARE her servant. 

Why do you do all that stuff? 

What is she doing while you are doing all that stuff?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> She's always said the kids come before anything. She constantly does everything for them and then complains they can't do things for themselves (girls 10&13). Maybe I should mention that once they move out who will be left??


First, you shouldn't mention who will be left - that is Nice Guy behavior and passive aggressive and, well, whiny. 

What you SHOULD do is start leading the family like the books told you to do. Start telling her ahead of time that you expect her to STOP doing everything for the kids and that you will intervene if she doesn't stop doing it. Explain that it's harmful for the girls and that at their ages, they should be nearly self sufficient. And then DO so - if she gets up to fix their clothes or their snack, calmly, gently, guide her back to the couch or whatever and say "Girls, it's your turn. Go get your fruit and go sit at the table and eat it."

THIS is what your wife is missing in you - the man of the house. The leader. The strong one who doesn't bend just because his wife b*tches at him.



> Maybe she's harbouring resentment over the fact she makes more $$ than I do so I am expected to do more around the house. I just can't figure her out sometimes.


WHO expects you to do more around the house? Did she explicitly say 'go do all this because I make more'? I doubt it. And if she did, you should have been the leader of the family and said 'I don't think so.'

Stop being her servant. And for heaven's sake, start making the kids do half the chores.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. She also said she would like to touch more but thinks I'll just want to have it lead to sex so she doesn't do it.


A common complaint for MANY women. Because the men just won't understand that all touch does NOT lead to sex. 

Can't you refrain from groping? Can't you just sit on the couch with your arm around your wife, and watch a movie? Start doing it.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

She says she has years of built up resentment towards me. I guess we'll have a talk after the kids go to bed. 
And she has in the past used lack of sex as punishment for getting layed off among other things. I'm just going about my business doing what I do at the moment. If I sit and think about this too long I'll end up going crazy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or you could actually listen to her about what those resentments are.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Oh, I'll be listening!!! I may even take notes. Mind you all those years of resentments are history. I can't change what I've done in the past. I can only change the future. The past will just be a yardstick to measure my progress against. 
I'll tell you one thing though. I already feel as if a huge weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you mean history as in the causes won't happen again, or as in it's in the past so we shouldn't dwell on it?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

As in I want to know what these transgressions are so as not to repeat them, either with her or, if the case may be, someone else.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Because sometimes you just want to hug your spouse, hold their hand or cuddle with them without it always leading to sex. Also to know that their spouse wants to touch them without _just _wanting to get laid.


And that doesn't happen naturally? Clearly every single time you touch your spouse you can't have sex but why would it ever be a bad thing to hug your spouse in the morning and realize how good she smells or how good she feels and think we need to come back to this later?


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> And that doesn't happen naturally? Clearly every single time you touch your spouse you can't have sex but why would it ever be a bad thing to hug your spouse in the morning and realize how good she smells or how good she feels and think we need to come back to this later?


It's not that it's really a BAD thing. Let's put it this way - there was a period of several months in my marriage that nearly every time my husband hugged me, he would grab either my butt or breasts. He thought he was being playful. He could not understand how that could possibly make me feel like an object. I stopped hugging him very often, because to me it was no longer a sweet gesture. 

I think this is one of those things men and women naturally see differently. 

And we're not referring so much to "coming back to it later." We're talking about those who go for it right then, after nearly every hug or kiss. Some guys (and maybe some women, i guess) can't compute affection that does not lead to sex. They don't see the point in it.

BTW, I'm not saying OP does this, just discussing the idea in general. Women like to be hugged and kissed and cuddled because you like us, not only when you want in our pants.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I do hug my spouse, that isn't an issue. The issue is most of the time it's me initiating contact. It's almost like she checked out already. I listen to her talk and she says things like MY house or MY kids. It sounds to me like I'm not even part of the family. I've called her on it a few times as it does hurt when I hear it. The worst part is she just goes right back to doing it. 
I have a gut feeling that things are just going to go down hill so I'll start reading up on the 180. I'll never cheat as I know how much the betrayal just as she did it to me 20+ years ago while we were into our LTR. I do trust her but I know that once a person has walked out once, it only makes it easier the next time. I swore to myself I would never let myself be hurt like that again.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

that.girl said:


> It's not that it's really a BAD thing. Let's put it this way - there was a period of several months in my marriage that nearly every time my husband hugged me, he would grab either my butt or breasts. He thought he was being playful. He could not understand how that could possibly make me feel like an object. I stopped hugging him very often, because to me it was no longer a sweet gesture.
> 
> I think this is one of those things men and women naturally see differently.
> 
> ...


I get that. I as a man also like being hugged and kissed. I guess my life is too busy to go for sex every time I touch my GF. Doesn't mean I don't get inspired by that same touch just means we can't do that all right now. Just strikes me as an odd almost insulting line his wife used. Like somehow him wanting her is a bad thing. Dunno maybe you're right and he jumps her every time he holds her hand and that's offputting.....

That's an interesting example about your husband grabbing your butt. I do that all the time as well. Clearly it has a place if she is telling me about some traumatic thing I'm not smacking her ass but if it's just her doing the dishes I will come up and hug her from behind or rub her butt or something. She says she loves when I do that. She loves my flirtatious desire I have for her noted by when she catches me looking at her breasts she will lower her shirt more to tease. Guess every couple is different.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> I do hug my spouse, that isn't an issue. The issue is most of the time it's me initiating contact. It's almost like she checked out already. I listen to her talk and she says things like MY house or MY kids. It sounds to me like I'm not even part of the family. I've called her on it a few times as it does hurt when I hear it. The worst part is she just goes right back to doing it.


You AREN'T part of the family. You're the family dog. You're the doormat. You're the cook, the cleaner, the babysitter. And she goes right back to doing it because you keep allowing it - AND you keep being the cook the cleaner and the babysitter.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Well.... We had a good talk tonight. I asked her to list off all her resentments. At first she said it doesn't matter as they are history. I kept probing and finally she started to open up. Believe it or not, one of the problems is my cooking (scratch head) she hates the fact that the kids beg her to wait until I get home so I can cook for them. She said they complain that she burns everything. 
Then she opened up about sex.... Apparently she feels I just want her as a fvck slvt. I assured her that is not the case (which it isn't) I asked her to take a break and look up male sexuality. I think that was a real eye opener for her. I expressed to her that I sometimes won't even try initiate sex because of her body language when she comes home from work. I told her I can tell that I know the answer before I even try(she agreed). 
I knew there was still more bugging her so I kept pressing. Finally she just broke down and opened up. She said she feels like a loser..... I asked why? She said "I spent years getting my accounting designation and our household finances are a complete mess!!! 
She went into the details and I couldn't believe what she was telling me!!!! I figured that since she is a CPA, she should be the one to oversee the finances (made sense to me at the time). Boy was I wrong!!!!! She told me about how many credit cards she has and what the balances were. HOLY FVCK!!!! I was literally in shock when she told me. 
After the shockwave from that bombshell, she said that is the biggest problem that is eating at her. Funny thing, she never let on how bad it was until tonight!!! 
I thought I was going to lose it!!! (I won't go into the details here, but it's bad). 
She is really upset at herself because she knows that my retirement plans will have to wait a couple more years. 
I suggested we both sit down over the next few days and try come up with a plan to get us back on track. According to her there is still too much month left at the end of the money. 
I kept prodding, but that was all there was (thank god!!!)
Now the fun part.... She has to start cooking again. I told her, I would pick up some extra work to pay off the debt, but she'll have to take on the cooking and some of the other things I do. Point blank I said, "I will not be cooking, feeding or walking the dog after working to pay off all this debt. Those things are yours now!!!!" 
Now back to the sex part.....withholding sex as punishment is a deal breaker, if there is a problem, tell me, we can work it out. Also, I will not have sex with someone that doesn't want to have sex with me!!! I'll take care of it myself. If you are too tired, let me know, I won't force the issue but we will make time for at least twice a week. Her thoughts were Wednesday and Saturday (she said she can do one late night during the week). 

Now the kids....
I brought up the subject of the kids not doing enough around the house. I asked what we can do to change the fact that she does everything for them. Her response,"I don't have time to teach them what to do." Bullsh!t!!!! They have to learn or there will be consequences!! When my wife is out of town, the girls will be taking to the kitchen for dad's cooking school. They'll learn to plan, prepare, cook and clean up. The girls know I won't put up with their BS. 
The final part of the nights discussion was that we WILL talk weekly about our feelings, relationship and a financial update. 

Funny thing, after all the 
tears, and arguing, she snuggled up to me and thanked me for listening and not freaking out!!! 
She even apologized for using sex as a weapon and assured me it will not happen again.

We spent two hours talking about all these things but instead of going to bed she wanted crazy makeup sex!!! WTF???? Here I am on the verge of losing it all (the big D) and she wants to stay up late and fvck??? 
I guess stealing my balls back is what she wanted all along. Who'd have seen this coming???


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What was she spending the money on?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Most of the spending was on daily household requirements. A lot of it was also used for travel for gymnastics competitions, flights and hotels. 
Funny thing though, she always says she loves giving BJ's and hates shopping but always seems to come home with bags in her hands and I rarely get a BJ. I'll never figure women out 
Today I'll be looking into picking up some extra work to get this debt payed down. Unfortunately her job doesn't allow overtime so she'll be doing a lot more around the house. For me the easiest way to pay it down is to just pick up a couple extra kitchens to build and the debt will be gone. I'll make sure the c cards get destroyed as well. 
Myself I have 2 cards one is a joint card we share that I have never used (can't remember my pin#) and the other is for my business. 
At least now we have everything out in the open and I plan on keeping it that way.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Good for you! Your talk seems to have been extremely productive.

But it's her debt. Why can't she get a second job?

You'll be working harder than ever, now.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Is rather pay the debt down. I know how much she HATES doing housework 
Plus, if she had a second job, I would become petty much a single parent.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

thenub said:


> Is rather pay the debt down. I know how much she HATES doing housework
> Plus, if she had a second job, I would become petty much a single parent.


It's not my intent to poke the bear but aren't you pretty much a single parent now?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thenub- since most of it was spent on daily living, there also needs to be changes to the daily living so you guys aren't just right back where you are. Have you sat down and made a budget together?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Some days it sure seems that way. I'm sure once this financial problem is under control, things will be a lot less stressful. This will give me a chance to get out of the house and connect with other people for a while. 
I guess what I've put in this thread is most of the negative aspects we face. There are a lot of positives as well, but everyone always remembers the bad stuff. I'm no different and neither is she. 
I could see by the look on her face when she came home yesterday that she had been crying. I think she came to the realization I was ready to leave. Hell, I was even checking the classifieds for apartments. 

A lot of good did come out of this. We/I have finally got to the root of the stress, resentment and discipline/chore issues regarding the kids. She will continue looking after the finances but I will be involved and making the final decisions on the spending. 
Sex will be at least twice a week and maybe more if we can make the time for it.

She did ask me why I sent her the LL quiz and hinted at the trouble it caused us. I countered with the fact that if I didn't, none of these issues would get talked about and dealt with.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

ahhh Thanks for the update. So she is feeling bad an projecting that onto you to bring you down to her level. Now this I understand and makes much more sense. Good for you standing your ground and leading this marriage. I hope to hear that oyu both continue to improve


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Great job on both of your parts. I'm hopeful this talk will result in your marriage turning a corner for the good.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm just glad we got this out in the open. We both feel a great deal of relief. 
She did mention her concern about me going to the gym and my weight loss. I told her straight up that there wasn't another woman and if there ever was the thought of it I would divorce her before I ever broke my vows as I know what it feels like to be betrayed. She knew exactly what I was talking about and thanked me for my honesty.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> I guess stealing my balls back is what she wanted all along. Who'd have seen this coming???


Uh...all of us?

That was beautifully done. You did not shame or blame, you just explained. You took control. You told her what you'd accept and not accept. You got both of you on a team. You took over the kid subject. And you showed her she can be honest and not take a hit.

Only thing I would add is that the kids need to start getting chores now. When my DD was around 8, I started giving her weekly chores. Each year, I added another chore, increasingly complex. By the time she was 18, she was fully capable of running a household. Of course, that bit her in the butt in college, because she was the only roommate who would take care of things...

Sit down with the kids this weekend with a poster board. Write out all the things that have to get done in the house, including for them, and discuss which chores they will start taking on. I suggest starting with their own laundry, cleaning their room, and cleaning their toilet and bathtub, at their ages. Have them sign their name on the chores they'll be responsible for. Pin it to the wall so everyone sees it. When they don't do them, and they won't, take them to the chart and point out what they agreed to, and then tell them to go do it - no tv, no electronics, til they're done. It will take a few weeks of you monitoring til they get into the rhythm, but they'll get it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lucy999 said:


> It's not my intent to poke the bear but aren't you pretty much a single parent now?


Yes, but now he's turning the tide so that she becomes more involved. VERY important.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> She did ask me why I sent her the LL quiz and hinted at the trouble it caused us.


I don't understand. What did she mean about trouble? The talk you had? 

I hope you helped her see that the quizzes are meant to INCREASE your communication and feelings for each other.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> My wife sent me an email saying she's always exhausted mentally and physically. She also said she would like to touch more but thinks I'll just want to have it lead to sex so she doesn't do it. She also stated that sex is a low priority for her. And that's why her LL acts of service.
> I replied by telling her it isn't healthy for us to go on this way and I'm going to keep working on me. I also suggested MC and if I'm still not what she wants maybe separation.
> Man it was hard to hit the send button, but it haas to be said. I'm sure she is probably in a panic and crying at her desk right now.
> At least now it's out there so maybe we'll be able to talk about it.


First and foremost, you should not be communicating over email.

Face to face > adult conversation. Keep anything serious out of email/texts.

We are ALL exhausted and tired with life (work, family, house, etc etc)........that's a poor excuse. If she loves you, she would make time. Heck just last night my wife had her period and she was hurting BAD, her right hand also was injured....guess, what, she still made sure I was taking care of (even when I insisted).

Other things = more excuses. Even if it leads to sex, what's wrong with that? And she is also inconsiderate, this is NOT about her or her drive, it's also about YOUR drive and making sure her loved one is happy. And YES, sex/intimacy IS the ultimate expression of love for you and most men, so she should take steps to make sure she shows you that she loves you (which right now she doesn't do or care).

TALK TO HER


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

thenub said:


> Well.... We had a good talk tonight. I asked her to list off all her resentments. At first she said it doesn't matter as they are history. I kept probing and finally she started to open up. Believe it or not, one of the problems is my cooking (scratch head) she hates the fact that the kids beg her to wait until I get home so I can cook for them. She said they complain that she burns everything.


Tell her what kids think is no big deal. Meanwhile, invite her to cook WITH you. This will teach her and also give you guys quality time/build team spirit/team work!!!

DO THIS ASAP.



thenub said:


> Then she opened up about sex.... Apparently she feels I just want her as a fvck slvt. I assured her that is not the case (which it isn't) I asked her to take a break and look up male sexuality. I think that was a real eye opener for her. I expressed to her that I sometimes won't even try initiate sex because of her body language when she comes home from work. I told her I can tell that I know the answer before I even try(she agreed).


This sounds good. Did you guys come to some kind of conclusion on this end? 

Probably issue #1 on priority list, so keep at it!




thenub said:


> I knew there was still more bugging her so I kept pressing. Finally she just broke down and opened up. She said she feels like a loser..... I asked why? She said "I spent years getting my accounting designation and our household finances are a complete mess!!!
> She went into the details and I couldn't believe what she was telling me!!!! I figured that since she is a CPA, she should be the one to oversee the finances (made sense to me at the time). Boy was I wrong!!!!! She told me about how many credit cards she has and what the balances were. HOLY FVCK!!!! I was literally in shock when she told me.
> After the shockwave from that bombshell, she said that is the biggest problem that is eating at her. Funny thing, she never let on how bad it was until tonight!!!
> I thought I was going to lose it!!! (I won't go into the details here, but it's bad).
> ...


Suppress your anger and work at this with her. This can't happen again. Meanwhile, take control of expenses and have her as an assistant.

Thank her for honesty, but do tell her that this can't happen again or you will need to reconsider your marriage.



thenub said:


> Now the fun part.... She has to start cooking again. I told her, I would pick up some extra work to pay off the debt, but she'll have to take on the cooking and some of the other things I do. Point blank I said, "I will not be cooking, feeding or walking the dog after working to pay off all this debt. Those things are yours now!!!!"


Mistake. Sorry, but SHE is the one that did the damage and SHE is the one that should be working extra hours to pay it off.

DO NOT do this for her. This would mean 0 consequense for her.....BIG NO NO




thenub said:


> Now back to the sex part.....withholding sex as punishment is a deal breaker, if there is a problem, tell me, we can work it out. Also, I will not have sex with someone that doesn't want to have sex with me!!! I'll take care of it myself. If you are too tired, let me know, I won't force the issue but we will make time for at least twice a week. Her thoughts were Wednesday and Saturday (she said she can do one late night during the week).


Good progress, but her proposal is not good enough IMO. But that's just me. Also I don't like "scheduled sex".....especially based on what you are looking for. You won't like this, and you know it.



thenub said:


> Now the kids....
> I brought up the subject of the kids not doing enough around the house. I asked what we can do to change the fact that she does everything for them. Her response,"I don't have time to teach them what to do." Bullsh!t!!!! They have to learn or there will be consequences!! When my wife is out of town, the girls will be taking to the kitchen for dad's cooking school. They'll learn to plan, prepare, cook and clean up. The girls know I won't put up with their BS.


You are right. That is COMPLETE BS. Kids are getting her to do everything they should be doing > she gets more tired> takes away more from you 2.

My kids do their own laundry, clean their rooms AND the house, dishes, other things around the house etc.

Make a daily responsibility list. EACH AND EVERY FAMILY MEMBER CONTRIBUTES EVERY DAY!!!



thenub said:


> The final part of the nights discussion was that we WILL talk weekly about our feelings, relationship and a financial update.


This is great IMO.




thenub said:


> Funny thing, after all the
> tears, and arguing, she snuggled up to me and thanked me for listening and not freaking out!!!
> She even apologized for using sex as a weapon and assured me it will not happen again.


This is HUGE progress and good job on keeping your head focused and not exploding. MANY WOULD in your situation....so really good job OP.

Her acceptance/recognition of issues is the FIRST and most important step to resolution!



thenub said:


> We spent two hours talking about all these things but instead of going to bed she wanted crazy makeup sex!!! WTF???? Here I am on the verge of losing it all (the big D) and she wants to stay up late and fvck???
> I guess stealing my balls back is what she wanted all along. Who'd have seen this coming???


Don't look at it this way. Be positive and optimistic. Make up sex is good and she took action right away to work on the current issues (one of them IS sex).

Everything sounds great to me, just make sure plenty of action follows and keep communicating.

She needs to pay off that debt.....take control of finances PRONTO!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Has she been selling all the kids' past gymnastic outfits? She could be making a lot of good money to pay down debt by doing that.

And you two need to sit down and look at the credit cards and use or replace to only use cards for gymnastics traveling that offer points for each purchase. If she uses it 3 or 4 times, she should have enough points to book the next hotel for free.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

How much of the debt is her spending vs. household and kid stuff? I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on her if the money was used for the home/kids. It's clear she can't be trusted to be in charge of the finances on her own because she is at fault for letting it go on so long without saying something but the money itself is not all on her IMO.

thenub- I may have missed it but what % of the household income does she make vs. you? How many hours do you both work a week?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> Has she been selling all the kids' past gymnastic outfits? She could be making a lot of good money to pay down debt by doing that.
> 
> And you two need to sit down and look at the credit cards and use or replace to only use cards for gymnastics traveling that offer points for each purchase. If she uses it 3 or 4 times, she should have enough points to book the next hotel for free.


At this point, I would consider taking the kids out of sports that require TON of money.

I know, it's unfortunate but they have to consider what they can/can't afford.

Also, see the interest charges. If we are not talking 0%....I suggest you make some transfers QUICK or this debt is going to multiply FAST.

I still can't believe she is an accountant......who does she work for? Anderson?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree, but I see NO future for that discussion, so I'm trying to help find alternatives.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

My wife just texted and she set up an appointment with our banker. I suggested that this morning. I suggested a line of credit to pay off the c card debt and make sure it is not linked to any bank cards. Also, I TOLD her there will only be one c card with a $2500. Limit. It will be left locked up in the house and I am standing firm on those points. 
She has been selling the old gym suits as well as the old dance costumes we have. Also, spending should be cash only!! Pay the bills, take out the cash for other things; groceries, gas etc. I've also brought up the amount of food being wasted, meals will now be smaller and we will only keep a small supply of groceries on hand. We both pass grocery stores daily, if we run out of something one of us can stop and pick up only what is NEEDED.
Her working overtime or another job won't work. Being a tax auditor for the Gov. any accounting is a no no unless it's personal. I can easily make $3500-$5000 doing a single kitchen job so it only makes sense that I take this on. She will be doing most things around the house with the kids helping.
I'm waiting to hear from my wife about the appointment with the bank. 
She WILL still be paying the bills but I WILL be overseeing all of it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You don't live in Houston, do you?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

To be honest, I really expected her to start yelling and screaming. I guess since I took the lead in the talks last night I was able to set the tone of the conversation.
At least half the debt is attributed to the gymnastics. We discussed taking my oldest daughter out of it as she doesn't have any deep desire to keep going. My youngest daughter is the total opposite, if she's not sleeping she's doing gymnastics (we have a balance beam and uneven bars in our family room that are used all the time). We agreed she will remain in it.
I can't completely blame my wife for the financial issues as I have in the past been the one to screw things up. I'm blaming us both, her because of the card I didn't know we even had and myself for not taking any interest in the finances in the first place. 
She has apologized for the mess and said she will do what I want her to do to make it right. So I'm going with my original plan. She WILL do most of the housework and I will pay the debt. I can pay it off a lot faster than she can. To some of you I may come off as stupid or a doormat, but I want this sh!t taken care of!!! I can pay it down the fastest. Like it or not my wife and I are a couple. We give and take. I'm taking control and fixing this problem. Her way didn't work, now it's my turn.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Definitely not in Houston. I won't see grass for another 3 1/2-4 months. 
I'm on the north shore of Lake Superior ⛄


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Wow! Just goes to show what can come from having those tough conversations!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

No kidding!!! Usually she starts off crying then yelling and I would just shut down. This time I started things off. I had it in my head that if it got crazy I would walk away and try again after cooling off. 

I was shocked to find all this stuff out and glad I did!! We will be sitting down tonight and going over the finances with a fine tooth comb. Our banker gave my wife a couple options that she liked but I outright said no way!!! I told her how I want it done because the way her and the banker talked about it meant more money for the bank... NOT HAPPENING!!
I'm going to set up a line of credit with a receding limit so the debt can only go in one direction... DOWN


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Another good development!!
A former client of mine who's kitchen I built a few years back called me last night and asked if I was still building kitchens. He told me he sold his house last year and is now in the process of expanding/remodeling his new house. He wants me to go and take my measurement for his new kitchen this weekend. 

This one job alone should knock our current debt down by about 30%. 
My wife is still apologizing about the financial mess and is doing most of the housework while I finish up this other project I have on the go. I have the kids doing more (age appropriate ) chores as well. Now that the weekend is coming up, I'll see if our discussion about our sex life has sunk in at all. 

We are still waiting to hear of any developments from our banker and we are very optimistic. I have noticed my wife has started to ask me a lot about weather she should do things. I am not used to this as before she would have just gone ahead and done things without any concern as to what I think. I guess I may have struck a chord with her?? 
I went into our discussion the other evening with the mindset that I'll leave if I have to and she fully understood it. Since then, I feel like I can conquer the world she's less stressed out about the housework now that I have the girls helping out. 
We were discussing the gymnastics costs and figure it might be best to let them finish this session as travel and hotels are booked and paid for already, then take them both out for at least a year until the financial issues are taken care of. 
I think this is the first time I really ever faced my wife with the intention of not backing down or shutting down and the willingness to separate and divorce her. I can see that she now has respect for and trust in me. I found my self respect again and I will never give that up again...... To anybody.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thenub said:


> I have noticed my wife has started to ask me a lot about weather she should do things. I am not used to this as before she would have just gone ahead and done things without any concern as to what I think. I guess I may have struck a chord with her??


That's what happens when the man returns to his role as leader of the family: everyone defers to him.

Are you sure you should take the younger daughter out? I was thinking let the older daughter pick something else she wants to try, like a sport or an instrument or theater.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

We discussed that a bit last night. We will have her finish this session in her current group. For the next session we may drop her down a level so there will be less traveling and less hours per week at the gym. That alone will be $2500 in savings.
Our oldest daughter may not want to return since she'll be starting high school this year and wants to take higher level academic classes. She did take scuba diving classes when she was 10 and has been hinting she may want to go back. I won't allow it if the costs are too much or if it happens to be one of her many passing fancies.

I know it would break my youngest d's heart to have to completely drop out of gymnastics so keeping her in it somehow is a priority. Her talent, dedication and devotion for her sport are always recognized by all the coaches in her gym. Even coaches that have never worked with her always comment on her abilities.
Now I'm just waiting to hear from our banker. 

If I can pull in a couple more kitchen jobs, she will remain in her current level.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

At her age, it's a good time to include your older daughter in learning how to pay for the lessons, even if only part of it. Babysitting, dog sitting, ironing...


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## raymond1632 (Jan 24, 2015)

thenub: Don't feel bad, I get the same response from my wife - "All you want to do is have sex". Well, when I don't get to have it but twice per month, dear, what do you think is constantly going through my mind? I had a discussion with my wife about what is "normal" - sex about once every 7-10 days is considered "normal", according to the article I read anyway.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I hear you. She says she'll try, but I haven't seen too much effort on her part. Good thing I learned to masturbate at a young age. It gave me a lot of practice for married life. Next week my wife is out of town so I know I'll be rubbing them out for a while yet
On the financial front, I just received an email from a prospective client. They have accepted my quote to build their kitchen. I also went to a former client's house yesterday and took measurements for their kitchen (repeat customer.)
We have an appointment to sign paperwork at the bank later this week so at least that is going well. 

Cheers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The stronger you get, the more in charge of the family, the more attracted your wife will be to you.


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## kindnessrules (Sep 5, 2014)

I would add to what others have already said that he doesn't have to go hog wild and do-do-do constantly, unless he loves doing that. Just try to do a few things and see how it works. Try to help them by suggesting what they can do. It shouldn't be a guessing game, unless the other one's love language is surprises. A few extra hugs, sitting on the couch holding hands, a foot rub, taking out the trash, clearing the table, whatever it may be. Last night my H offered to unload the dishwasher and in the process noticed the filter needed cleaning, which I very much appreciated because it's hard for me to reach down in there. I agree that it should not be slavery. Just try a few things initially and see how it goes. Over time things will come up that the other one does spontaneously that you didn't even know you liked, but you do.

It drove my husband crazy at the beginning that I didn't like typical lady things like flowers, candy, perfume, jewelry, dinner out, etc. He was at a loss to know what to do for me. We did read the love language book but knowing our needs is still not always clear cut and it changes over time. He takes out the trash and checks my oil and kills bugs (which I very much appreciate), altho I don't need him to do those things. There are other things I enjoy more. I enjoy being listened to when I need to talk - just listen, don't fix. I know that's hard for a man. He gives me nice long foot rubs, altho I never asked for it he enjoys it too; it's good togetherness and it relaxes him. They are enjoyable but I don't need them. He loves nonsexual affection. I admit I'm not too good about it; I have to remind myself to hug him, which seems to make him happy. Although I don't care about being rich, like many women I want basic financial stability and very much appreciate that he is a steady worker who enjoys his job. 

Unfortunately, what I really need from him he cannot provide - not what he does but what he is. He cannot be the person I married. He was healthy and now he is not. His chronic illness and some other health problems have stolen a great deal from our marriage which is very depressing and sad. It's hard knowing he is always in pain which is never going to get any better, and he sleeps a great deal of the time which means I am alone. He is not able to go to church with me, which takes away a lot of our former companionship. We have had a lot of losses. I'm afraid that is not in the love languages book.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I can't believe it!!!! My oldest daughter texted my wife today and asked if a friend could come over after school and go to a movie later. Now here's the good part. My wife replied,"she can come over but you will have to cook dinner for us." Of course right away my D replied,"I don't know how.". 
Wife-"I'll get things ready for you. If you don't want to do it, your friend can just go home and you can forget about the movie tonight"
D-"ok, but you'll have to show/tell me how to do it"
W-"I will do that"

Finally!! My wife stood her ground with our D. I told my wife last week when we had our discussion that I wanted her to stop caving in to our D's demands. It was a very basic ( hamburgers and fries) meal, but my D did a great job 
I got home from the gym and had a meal waiting for me. Awesome!!! I'll have to let my wife know how glad I am that she took this stand with our D. 
My wife is working out of town next week so our daughters will be cooking with me next week. They will be learning a few different meals, plus how to clean up the dishes as they go. They will also be responsible for loading and emptying the dishwasher. 

Myself, I'll take care of vacuuming, mopping and laundry and meal planning. I will also make sure I pick up any groceries required for said meals. 

It will be a rough week as they alternate nights at the gym so I'll be driving to the gym every night. I'm also on call next week so that may cause a few logistical problems but I do have a back up plan already in place.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how I should teach the girls to cook? Should I let them do everything while I tell them how to do it? Or would it be best to help them by being hands on but only enough to show them? I'm sure I'll meet up with some resistance to my plan but it will be short lived. They know I won't put up with their BS like their mother has been.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hands on is best. Start with simple like spaghetti and marinara sauce, with a salad. 

Next meal, do sloppy joes with green beans/butter/garlic salt.

Those both have multiple steps that can be going on at the same time, so they'll both stay busy. 

Oh, and something I just agreed on with my DD24 (wish I'd thought of it 10 years ago) is that, since she's not in school and working part time, I expect that the dishwasher should be emptied by the time I get home from work every day. That way, whatever we use to make dinner goes straight into the dishwasher and there's nothing to clean up by the time dinner's done.

Oh, and good progress!


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks Turnera.
The dishwasher loading/unloading will be a priority. As will general tidying up around the house. They have gotten off easy long enough. 
When my wife has worked out of town, I usually don't stop doing housework until 10:30-11:00 every evening. I'll make up a chore list and have them take turns picking one at a time. If the chores are not completed, their electronics will be taken away until the next day(rinse and repeat).
I have taken care of everything while my wife has travelled for a week at a time for the last 12 years. The hardest thing I did was the potty training. That took a day and a half for each girl. Messy, but effective. Then there are the lice notices that come home from school. Spend a couple hours combing through their hair every night ugh!! 
I think this will be the hardest week so far, the girls used to have gym on the same nights but due to a coaching change, they go everyday except Saturday. 
My oldest has to be picked up from school a couple times a week as she babysits a couple kids that get off the bus in our neighborhood until their mother gets home(usually 10-15 min.) plus she delivers flyers one evening per week which I help her with.
I need a bubble bath just thinking about doing all this


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Well we had our appointment at the bank this afternoon and things look pretty good now. Monthly payment should drop $500-600. I did notice after leaving the bank my wife seemed a little more talkative, nothing serious, just idle chat.
Had my oldest daughter cook tacos with me tonight. The wife thought she would my D would put up a fight about it. I also had my D unload the dishwasher while cooking. She has to learn this stuff. My wife actually stood by and made sure our D did what was asked of her. 
I'm almost convinced there may even be some intimacy tonight( just won't hold my breath waiting)
My wife doesn't seem too stressed out right now but I know that can change at the drop of a hat.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

thenub said:


> Well we had our appointment at the bank this afternoon and things look pretty good now. Monthly payment should drop $500-600. I did notice after leaving the bank my wife seemed a little more talkative, nothing serious, just idle chat...


May I suggest you investigate Dave Ramsey's financial peace program. I would suspect that your wife could use some training on how to budget and some guidance in coming up with a plan to get totally out of debt. You have a good start, but probably a fair way to go.

Good luck.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

After we got home from the bank my wife set up a spreadsheet to track all recurring bills and payments. She also set it up so she could see the income to debt ratio and forecast future balances( all foreign to me). When she came away from the computer she was actually smiling for a change.
I did insist she take me through it step by step so I can understand what she was doing. After going through it again, I was able to see that our electricity costs and usage is way up compared to the same time last year. 
Today I went and picked up a few motion activated light switches, LED bulbs and high efficiency ballasts and new fluorescent tubes. All rooms my kids regularly use will get motion activated switches as they rarely turn lights off. All these will be my Sunday afternoon project as well as an oil change in my wife's truck. I also picked up an energy monitor the reads the smart meter so I can track usage in real time. I'm figuring on getting a 7.5-10% reduction in electricity over a year. I also plan on changing the lighting in my workshop as funds allow. To further reduce costs I reprogrammed our thermostat to a lower night time and weekday temperature as well as lowering the hot water temp. a little. These changes should also see a 5-10% energy savings. 
The good part is all my work hasn't gone unnoticed. My wife has been acting flirty since I brought all my supplies home. 
I've also had two customers sign contracts for kitchens along with their 30% deposits. I plan on getting 1 or 2 more kitchens quoted,signed and finished before I shut down for the summer. If this happens our financial woes will be over in about 6 months an we can start puting more away for the girls college education.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Brilliant work thenub!

Major progress on all fronts. Lets hope your wife continues flirty!


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

She is definitely an acts of service person. She kept up the flirting all day Saturday which turned into shameless groping after I told her about my plans around the house on Sunday. 

Saturday night after the kids went to bed, she asked If I wanted to have a little bit of fun. Seeing as it's been a week and a half it was really a no brainer. Today, I finished up a little earlier than I thought I would so I cleaned up the garage while my wife was dropping the girls off at gym. My wife came home with a large coffee and told me I can have it after I did one more thing. I wasn't sure what she had in mind until she headed for the bedroom. Today she let me do something I've wanted to do for a long time. 
Damn, I gotta change the oil in her truck more often.
She did tell me she was still stressed but much less since our bank visit and feels safer knowing I picked up a couple of kitchen jobs. 
I did mention to her that is love to know what goes on in her head. All she could say is it would scare me.
I don't doubt it for a minute.
She leaves for a week tomorrow so I'll be finishing up a few more repairs around the house this coming week(paint the laundry room and downstairs bathroom. Might even bring her truck for a wash if I get time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I get SO happy with my H on the rare occasions that he does something for the house (for me). Usually, if he does something, it's something HE decided needing done, that I never asked for nor wanted. So on the very rare occasion that he actually does do one of the things I've asked for, I'm ecstatic.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

My wife has been hinting at getting the laundry room painted ever since the dog chewed a hole in the wall. I patched it and touched it up but the paint doesn't quite match. The bathroom on the other hand is just something I wanted to do for a while. Seeing as it's only two rooms it should only take a few hours. Maybe I can get my girls to help.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Today I had my youngest daughter cook dinner. It was her choice as to what we were having, so I knew it would be easy. Chicken nuggets and fries. 
She got what she needed from the freezer and then was totally lost as to what she needed to do. I told her she would have to read the packages for the cooking instructions and get a pan to put the food on. I had to show her how to use the oven and set the temperature. 

Once she had the food on the tray and in the oven she tried to leave and play on her iPad. I suggested she find any dirty dishes and put them in the dishwasher. She didn't complain and set about loading the dishes. I also had get set the table and pour something for us to drink. In all I think she did very good for a first time 
Tonight the girls will have to collect the household garbage and bring it to the garage so it can be put out in the morning. I'll be prepping the laundry room and bathroom for painting which I am hoping to get done over the next couple of days.
I'm still hoping to be able to install a ceiling fan I've been putting off for a while as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good job. I learned over the years that there were SO many things that I assumed DD would understand but, frankly, it was all new to her. And every little thing she learned made her that much more self sufficient and sure of herself. So keep it up.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Tomorrow will be the test. My oldest daughter is as stubborn as I am. I'll make sure any consequences are laid out accordingly. If I had sons, they would be in the kitchen as well. I don't consider it "women's" work for one minute. I consider it to be a necessary skill. It's inly work if one considers it to be. I find cooking to be very relaxing and a good way to learn time management.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Well it's been a good week so far. Both daughters have been in the kitchen with me doing some cooking. My youngest wanted to learn to make tacos. She did an awesome job and helped clean up as well. 

Got a call from the bank and our refinancing plan has been approved. Have been texting with my wife all week and not once has she tried to bait me into any arguments. She even sent a couple of pictures and videos that I must delete from my phone. I guess she needed to be away for a while to just have evenings without the girls constantly asking her to do things for them.

My days have been crazy. I have 4 apartment that have to be ready to move into by the end of the month so I'm working my a$$ off trying to get those done. Been driving the girls to gym every night. Helping with homework, doing laundry, making sure their lunches are made every night. Had to do the brakes on my truck the other day. Still going to the gym to work out 3rimes a week and I'm on call this week. Luckily I've only had one service call after hours.

I find it funny that when my wife is away the girls get along so well together. Then when my wife is home they always seem to argue and fight with each other(maybe looking for mom's attention?).
On Friday I have to drop off my youngest at the airport to go to a gymnastic competition and my oldest will be sleeping at a friend's house. I'll get a nice quiet evening to myself. That'll give me a chance to make sure the house is clean before my wife and youngest return on Saturday.
My wife's texts have been very flirty/seductive and at times, downright dirty. I think she may be missing me a bit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Being a real man works, no?

Your kids act up around your wife because she creates a dynamic with them having no control. She eggs them on in nervousness.

I started watching a show called World's Worst Mom, where the mom, or dad, or both, are SO scared of their kids being hurt that they smother them. This one family with 5 kids had I think a 5 and a 7 year old IN A DOUBLE STROLLER, because they were afraid to walk without them all holding hands, so they put two in the stroller! They weren't allowed to play on their backyard grass, only the deck by the house, so the parents could reach them quickly if they fell or got hurt. And they couldn't go in the back yard at ALL unless one of the parents was there - because someone could jump the 6-foot-high fence and steal the kids. It's amazing what parents do without realizing they're going overboard. Or just not knowing better, like your wife.
‘World’s Worst Mom’ Takes To TV To Get Overprotective Parents To Relax | Here & Now


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I guess they are part of the bubble wrap generation. I was letting my kids do things that made other parents cringe. I know that kids heal faster than adults. I watched my youngest do a back handspring on the balance beam and land on her head. She got a mild concussion but as soon as the doctor gave her the go ahead, she went back to the beam and perfected it. 

I watch some of the kids/parents in the gymnastics club and I think I see where a lot of the kids fears come from. It seems the kids aren't allowed to do anything at home that might hurt them, but when they come to the gym they are expected to do just the opposite. Seems like a recipe for some kind of dis function to me. 
I let my girls try almost anything, I do watch and make sure they realize what can happen to them if something goes wrong. Sometimes they will decide on their own accord that it isn't worth trying, other times, not so much. 
I just go back to when I was a kid and the things I did. I'm still alive and kicking even though I never wore a helmet while riding a bike. Thankfully my wife feels the same way about the girls. Just let them be kids, they'll get hurt and learn from it. They know their own limits and sometimes push them. 

I think as an adult I've been to the emergency room more than I ever was as a kid. Sometimes wisdom doesn't come with age in some areas 
Most of our decisions regarding what the girls do is based on gut instinct, it's there for a reason and it is rarely wrong. We also look back at they way our parents handled things. We may not have liked their decisions at the time, but looking back they were the right one to make.
Now I can finish the laundry and fix a light that isn't working. I get the rest of the day to myself so I can catch up.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I guess my wife's week away did her some good. She is a lot more relaxed. She hasn't been baiting me into arguments or making snide remarks(maybe she knows I quit that game).

My youngest started showing her nerves before her competition, she was throwing up almost until the time she had to compete. And to top it off she was the very first one to compete that day. I'm very proud of her!! She didn't win any medals but she did her best, had fun and came in 7th overall. 

I mentioned in a previous post how my wife was being all flirty in her texts to me. I think she is still thinking of our conversation a couple weeks ago where I said she better think about if she still wants me around. Here is one thing she texted to me. Does this seem like she realizes I meant what I said about living separate lives
"Seriously as rough as some things get sometimes.... We have something Great together!!!😍😍I love you!!"

What do you think?? 
I know that since our discussion, her demands have dropped way down. I still do what I can to help out around the house and with getting the kids involved in helping (chores) but I refuse to do things she can take care of, especially if she is right there anyways(possible sh!t test?)
She has been more open to sex lately as well. She even initiated the night she got back home(late flight). I knew she was exhausted so I asked if we could just sit together on the couch and cuddle a bit but said tomorrow, I will take her. I think that sort of excited her.
I've been keeping up with going to the gym and now I'm being noticed more by other women. My wife actually told me she saw another woman checking me out yesterday. I guess that explains why she grabbed my arm and held on tight until we left the restaurant. 
I've downloaded a couple more self improvement book which I've started reading (can never learn too much) one was actually written by a PUA. I figure the more I learn about women, the better I can try and understand what goes through her mind.
Any thoughts on how I should proceed?? Should I just keep holding my course, or is there other areas I should work on?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're doing everything right, man. Congratulations.

NOTHING a woman loves more than having her man checked out and her getting to walk out with him.

I would suggest Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. It's great about creating a balance between time with/for your wife/family and time for yourself. Women like it when their man has outside activities (not too much!) and then come home and devote themselves completely. But make sure you ARE also doing things outside the home, with your guy friends.

One other area you might look at is finding a volunteer opportunity for the whole family. Like we help renovate houses in poor neighborhoods and we help clean up beaches and bayous. Great bonding. And it's great learning for the kids.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Glad to have found this thread, as I wondered about this myself.

My H took the quiz again recently and found that his #1 LL was Words of Affirmation. This one is tough for me. 

For example, I work with two women who send out a "thank you for doing that" email for literally everything! Thanks for cleaning up the shared drive! Thanks for taking notes during the meeting! Thanks for following up on that email!

Ugh! I'm so not this person. I make myself send these kinds of notes because it seems to help the team, but I find it grating.

As for my H, I find his need for words of affirmation to be neediness. He should do something because it's the right thing to do, because it needs to be done. Does he really need to hear how great he is because he regularly takes out the trash? 

Maybe I'm just bitter since my primary LL is quality time. My H is not one to spend time connecting. He is fine with just being in the same space, but not interacting. He is fine with talking about the weather or whether a bill got paid, but nothing deep or real. 

So, because my needs are not being met, I don't feel like meeting his. Now, I could recognize him when he does what he does, and he in fact does a huge amount in my opinion. But if he's not capable of meeting my need for quality time (notice I didn't say he isn't willing; he's literally not capable of it), then I resent the idea that I should compliment him so he feels better about himself.

Now that is one one bitter post!!!


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Turnera; 
I meet up with a friend three times a weeks for three hours at the gym. I also build kitchens part time so that has me out meeting all sorts of people. Trying to find time for a family volunteer project is a tough one. Our kids go to gymnastics on alternating days of the week. From 4:30-9:00pm. When they get home we have school lunches to make and homework to take care of. By the time that's done we have to get the kids off to bed.
I was looking at hold onto your N.U.T.S. I guess that'll be on my next order.
I'm sure we will hit a few bumpy patches here and there but I'm not going to give up any of this ground that I have won back. I want to remain married as I really do love my wife, but I will leave if it comes down to it. I now have the mindset that I am fully capable of taking care of myself and my girls if need be. I think my wife knows this as well.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Surpriesmyself;

What was your second highest score on the LL quiz. Maybe you can find some common ground there???


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

A little update.
My wife has finally figured out that anytime she touches me I don't think she's initiating. We have spent most of our evenings chatting, going out together to pick up the girls at gym, shopping etc. she snuggles up to me on the couch to watch a little tv every night as well. 

Our oldest daughter has decided she doesn't want to be in gymnastics anymore(she has no upper body strength) so we have taken her out. My youngest daughter has one more competition at the end of the month and, depending on if she brings up her ranking, she may possibly be going to the Nationals.
If not, we will talk with her about dropping her down a level. 

Financially things are much better as well. With the c-cards paid off our monthly payments are almost half of what we were paying on the cards. Also a small loan we had we paid out as well. 

We had a snowstorm the other day and the wife's truck broke down in the driveway so I ended up driving her to work. I could tell she was starting to stress over what it would cost for repairs. 

After we got home from work I cleaned the driveway out and tried starting her truck again. It started up but then died. I decided to score some alpha points on this one. I read the codes and found the problem. Unfortunately, the dealer had the part but we're closing in ten minutes. I'm friends with the parts guy so he said he'd leave the part with the receptionist for me to pick up and I could pay the next day. I got home, removed the old part (temp -20°c with high winds) and installed the new one. Tried starting and it ran great. 
That really got her stress levels down. She decided she wanted sex afterwards so hey! I'm all in that was the third time this week!!! We were up until almost 2:00am (she gets up at 5:30am) I kind of felt bad but it was her idea. 
Today is her birthday so the girls will be cooking dinner (they just don't know it yet). I'm picking up wine and flowers on my way home.

I did download hold onto your N.U.T.S and have just started reading it. This is the 5th or 6th book I've picked up this month on marriage and relationships. 

So far things seem to be better but I'm not going to let thing go back to what they were. I'll just keep working on what I can fix about me and what makes me happy.


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## micawber (Oct 8, 2014)

This is awesome! I'm really glad to see things are turning around for you and your family.

Mrs. Micawber and I have read the 5 love languages book as well and your situation is the same as mine. Same languages, same situation regarding intimacy. It's been an amazing 4-5 months of turnaround in our relationship also and it all comes down to giving/showing love in a way that it is understood/appreciated by the other. Mrs. M told me last night (out of the blue) that reading that book and putting it into practice has been a revolutionary change in our relationship and that she wanted to re-read it and asked me where I had put it.

I am also doing some of the MAP stuff that is is the MMSLP and that is showing results similar to yours as well. I'm losing weight, getting my body back, dressing better and that is making me more confident and it's paying off big time in that I feel better and she's (and others) noticed.

So keep up the good work (as I will also) and enjoy growing deeper and deeper in love with your wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow, I'm really jealous!

I'm dealing with a H who hasn't fixed anything I've asked for but, as usual, picked 2 or 3 OTHER things he wanted to fix that I didn't care one bit about, so he expects a pat on the back while I'm seething in resentment. 

And who humiliated me to the internet/cable guy a couple nights ago by blowing up at him and cussing him out and then threw a _literal rolling on the floor fit_ that night (he was on the floor trying to fix the cable himself) because he couldn't get the internet/cable on and he was missing deadlines and I just didn't understand and all the suggestions I made to help him were stupid (even though his coworker made the same suggestions later). Oh, and then got on the phone and argued at top volume with a different coworker for almost an hour.

So I just went to the bedroom, drank a whole lot of wine, read a book, turned up the radio real loud, and went to sleep. Needless to say, I haven't talked to him since.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Micawber;
It's amazing what can happen in a relationship when you actually put a little effort into doing things. Mind you, laying under the truck at -20° wasn't very fun but I'm sure I saved her at least $500.00.
The going to the gym with my friend is something I look forward to every week. The has been really slow in coming of but my arms and chest are gaining more muscle every week. 

Turnera; I used to do the same thing once in a while. I would put off the job my wife wanted done to do others that I thought were more important (to me). It took a while to figure out that if I just did it sooner rather than later, the stress levels in the house would drop significantly. Now when stuff breaks I just fix the thing right away. Usually it only takes a few minutes plus it helps justify the rather large investment in tool that I have. 

Now I have to watch my girls cook dinner. Good way to get them arguing with each other🍟


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Just a little update. My wife has been having problems with our insurance agent for 6 months now. She has been trying to have some changes made to help save $$. He has done nothing but give her excuses, not calling back or taking her calls. She came home from work Monday and started talking about her day and how frustrating the insurance guy is.
Yesterday I gave him a call!!! I let loose on him with both barrels and demanded he call and apologize to my wife. I also demanded that he take care of the changes she requested 6 months ago. I didn't even give him a chance to make any excuses!! Needless to say, my wife was all happy when she came home yesterday. She knew I had called and asked what I said to him. After I told her about what went down with him she got this huge smile on her face. 
I'm thinking she likes when I take charge and refuse to take sh!t from anyone (I tell you, it felt good to tear a strip off the guy).
Been doing tons of guy stuff around the house and going to the gym regularly as well. 
She was at another gymnastics competition with my daughter on the weekend so I did the brakes on her truck, filled it and went to the car wash. Also took care of the laundry and did things with my oldest daughter who was home with me.
I have noticed that when we go out she doesn't even try to hold my hand anymore. She just latches onto my arm and holds tight (I love it)
The intimacy has been getting better as well although her period has been all over the map. She has been complaining about it but I'm not commenting one way or another. I'm not going to let it bother me. I can always find things to do to keep me busy. 
I went to a sleep clinic last night in hopes of getting help so I can get back into our bed. She is very excited about it too!!! My diabetes is pretty much a non issue as my blood test results show I'm actually pre-diabetic now. My testosterone levels showed a little higher than normal for my age which I'm glad to see. My blood pressure was 121/80 so no complaints there either
Lately I've been in a very good mood and I don't let anyone spoil it for me. If someone wants to be a downer I just get away from them. It's their problem not mine.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Update time.
Things have been going great!!! I have picked up a bunch of extra work to get the debt payed down, my wife has been initiating sex a lot (5 times in 8 days) we spend a minimum of 30 hours a week together doing household work and going for walks.
I've gone from 216lbs in November to just under 190 today. My type 2 diabetes is completely under control and I'm still hitting the gym 4x week. I know the gym is paying off as my wife is constantly rubbing my arms and grabbing my a$$.
When she leaves for work it isn't just a little peck anymore, it is more like a mini make out session.
I've been getting a lot of the little project done around the house and more vehicle maintenance done as well. My wife's eyes actually light up when we see each other and I'm sure mine do too.
I still do most of the cooking which is ok by me as I realized that when I stopped doing it for a while I missed it. I really do enjoy cooking, I find it relaxing as well as good practice for time management and multi-tasking.
I'm still having a few issues with my 13 year old daughter and her lack of respect towards my wife but I am working on it. My youngest will most likely be remaining in competitive gymnastics. 
Since our blowout in January, we have been communicating at a level which is completely unprecedented in our relationship. If I get turned down when I initiate sex it's really not a big deal anymore. I know that the next time we probably will hit the sheets. 
Since I have been losing weight, working out and eating less and healthier, my wife has really gotten her act together and has followed suit. She has been exercising and losing weight and I can tell by her demeanor that she is actually feeling good about herself for the first time in a long while. I keep complimenting and encouraging her and that alone seems to be making a big difference as well.
Between the advice garnered here and reading NMMNG and MMSLP, I feel that my wife and I have turned the tide from near roommates to a happy functioning couple again. 
I just hope that the others that come here in near sexless marriages living like roommates and considering other options, heed the advice of the many informed people on this site and read the recommended books.
In less than a year I have transformed myself into someone my wife loves AND respects. I'm far from finished working on myself but the results have been unimaginable from where I was a year ago. 
I read many of the posts on this site the good news and really bad ones and use the advice given to better my relationship. 
I wish I could thank each person who's advice I've used, but that would be impossible. 
Here's to another 30 years with my lovely wife!!!


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I figured I would update this thread. @turnera our financial issues have been resolved. We sold our house in a rather upscale neighborhood and downsized and moved into a nice neighborhood. The house is quite a bit smaller but it feels more like a home to us. 
Our relationship is still going strong and my wife defers all decisions to me. I think she actually hated being the sole decision maker in the past. Big decisions are discussed though but she still wants make to make the call on them. Our oldest daughter is in 10th grade now and is taking academic level classes and is averaging in the mid to high 90's. She wants to be a surgeon. She has been accepted to a two week summer program put on by our local health sciences centre. She will learn basic anatomy and how to suture. They will have actual cadavers. 
Our youngest is still competing in gymnastics and has quite a little trophy wall happening. 
Myself? I'm still going to the gym and our oldest daughter comes to the weight room and lifts with me. Both girls are taking Krav Maga and love it. Their instructor is a former professional wrestler and holds nothing back. They originally started out in a teen class but he moved them both to the adult class as they both put in more effort than any of his students including the adults. He is totally amazed at the strength of our youngest daughter (the gymnast) he has told me that in order to make her break into a sweat, the other students would drop dead from exhaustion. 
Out intimacy has increased quite a bit. Sometimes up to 6-8 times a week but usually 3-4 times. We communicate much more and household duties are more evenly divided. Our oldest who was for the longest time was totally disrespectful towards her mother has done a complete 180. She is very respectful and I believe it has a lot to do with being given chores/responsibility around the house. Both girls can and do cook and do dishes and will even do extra work without being asked. 
Tonight my wife and I are going to plan a little getaway to Vegas for a few days. I suggested it and she said "we need it."
I'm sorry if this post seems really random but I'm on my phone and the text box is very small. 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow! So proud of you.


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