# new here - looking for help on confrontation



## sandals (May 8, 2014)

hi everyone - i'm a newbie looking for some help on confronting my husband about his affair.

obligatory background: married for 12 years, together for 15. 2 kids, both under the age of 10. both husband & i work full-time.

affair background: too long to sketch out all details. D-day 1 happened on April 3, discovered email with "i love you" and jealousy from ow about a date we were on. email 2 was a $600 bank transfer from him to her. asked him about it & he denied. sent her an impulse email and told her to stay away. no reply. (no surprise.)

asked a couple more times, continued denial. laid out what an ea was and my feelings; he said he understood and was on board. 

my gut screamed that wasn't true. he changed his email account password. i asked for his work phone password. he gave it to me, but had everything prior to the week deleted. i discovered a few more things though - he created a secret email, plus other emails with "xoxo" & "love you, baby", etc. (she works with him, they are partners & frequently in contact throughout the day.)

dug deeper. put a var in his truck & heard more evidence. finally, last week friday caught a whole conversation with him telling her he was in love with her, wanted to be with her, couldn't stop thinking about kissing her again (1 kiss already...no evidence of more but i'm suspicious). oh, and i'm a horrible person that he doesn't want to touch, he's in a loveless marriage, yada yada yada.

i haven't confronted him yet because i want to do it when the kids are not here. that will be this coming friday, may 9. 

here are my worries: 1) will confronting drive him into her arms? yesterday, they found out their contract won't be renewed. he'll be fine, but she's hyper emotional & emotional about this as she hasn't worked anywhere. she has a strange dependence on him emotionally with work as he trained her for her current position. 

2) will i be able to make the confrontation strong enough? the var is the most incriminating evidence i have, but i don't want to let him know about it. everything else is circumstantial. i can tell him that i know he's done work at X time, but not home until X time. i can confront on secret emails, etc. and i could lie and say i had them followed. but will that be enough to stave off lies & gaslighting? (of which i had tons before i started digging deep) i'm kind of afraid of how crazy it will make me. he is still pretending like everything is fine to me, says i love you, kisses me, etc. 

3) am i going to be strong enough to confront? right now, i am still very, very sad.  for everything, especially the impact it will have on the kids.

4) i know i want some space. i don't know & i know i won't be able to know what i want until the confrontation happens...if he'll show remorse or not. 

5) how do i even get the right words out of my mouth? i've read the "let it go" post, and i love the approach. i just wish i had a script to follow.

if you've read this far, thank you. any words of advice are much appreciated. i am just really sad that it's come down to this. even tonight it felt like a knife to my heart when i saw he was done at 7 pm but didn't come home until 11.30 pm. i wasn't shocked...just hurt.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Looks like you have all the evidence you need for judge, jury, and executioner. Start off the discussion calm, but firm. Ask him if he's had any further inappropriate contact with the OW. His answer will tell you how to proceed from there, if he lies you have all the evidence to blow this out of the water. Admit to how you obtained your evidence. He may not be the honest one but you can. Take the hurt you feel and flip it around into anger. Make friends with it. Use it when necessary to get the truth from his mouth. Ask tactful questions, ones you already know the answer to, nothing he can give some weak excuse to. Start small with the questions and build on them. If he tried to bully you by going into a rage, keep it together and keep pressing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## catsa (Jun 8, 2013)

Sorry you're here. Hang on, lots of help coming. Stay strong and silent. No more confronts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Well, you seem like you are calm enough to try and address it. That doesn't mean so when the moment arises. 

I am sorry for your pain:/

It seems pretty deep though, he has already been sending her money. I would be so mad. I would have ruined it right there. 

Whew...Thank God there are tons of great support on here for you!!!


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

do you think i should admit to the VAR? i am worried if he promises me one thing and then continues to lie... it would be my only way of telling. 

thanks for all of your support, truly appreciated.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

sandals said:


> do you think i should admit to the VAR? i am worried if he promises me one thing and then continues to lie... it would be my only way of telling.
> 
> thanks for all of your support, truly appreciated.


Absolutely, unequivically not. No, no, no,never let them know how you got your info. If he asks tell him its none of his business who you get your information from. That implies someone,.maybe a PI, has rated him out.

The var is your best resource. You may need it again if he wants to reconcile. If he does you have to verify he is going straight.

Make a list of what you know in no particular order. Go over the list one item at a time. If he denies it just shake your head and tell him he's lying.

If he refuses to stop the affair and quit working with her, tell him to pack a bag and get out. You can't force him out but he may not know that.

Have a var hidden on you when you confront.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

sandals said:


> do you think i should admit to the VAR? i am worried if he promises me one thing and then continues to lie... it would be my only way of telling.
> 
> thanks for all of your support, truly appreciated.


Yes. Admit to it. The whole idea was dw is too stupid to track my double life now hahaha! The methods you used to catch him were justified. Don't forget he made the conscious choice without being under any duress to get all googly eyed for his coworker. Now its time to settle up, you got some answers that need questions. Don't view this guy as the love of your life type thing, switch that off and he's just stolen your life savings from you, every penny.....its all business no emotion behind it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sandals said:


> do you think i should admit to the VAR?


Noooooooooo...

But you should have one going during the confront. And again, don't let him know that you have it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

This might help...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/70930-guide-confronting-wayward-spouse.html

Have a plan when he makes a choice?

Miss Taken compiled some good resources that could be of use here...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/176962-useful-threads-resources-tam-web.html


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

Is she married? 

How did he explain away the money he sent her?


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

she is living with her bf in his parents' basement. i can't get any info on names, addresses, etc. to expose to him without giving myself away.

he claims that she gives money to her sister to help support her nephew (who is a teenager). the $600 was for that, supposedly. we had a conversation about her money issues before i suspected him of cheating and we were both in agreement that she needed to solve for them. 

it's the lies and deception that are the worst right now.  last night he came home late at 11.30 p.m., but i saw from his work emails he was done at 7 p.m. and then he has the nerve to act all loving to me, ask me what i want for mother's day, etc. ugh.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> affair background: too long to sketch out all details. D-day 1 happened on April 3, *discovered email with "i love you" and jealousy from ow about a date we were on. email 2 was a $600 bank transfer from him to her*. asked him about it & he denied. sent her an impulse email and told her to stay away. no reply. (no surprise.)
> 
> *my gut screamed *that wasn't true. *he changed his email account password.* i asked for his work phone password. he gave it to me, but had everything prior to the week deleted. i discovered a few more things though - *he created a secret email, plus other emails with "xoxo" & "love you, baby", etc.* (she works with him, they are partners & frequently in contact throughout the day.)
> 
> ...


No do not give up your source of information and do not confront until you are ready. Also brace yourself most like based on the bolded above the EA is a PA. Don’t fool yourself she is putting it out there for him and if he’s saying ILU and can’t stop thinking about her there’s sex involved. I would take time to set up a separate bank account - you will need the money. Get the evidence you need about a PA and then figure out what you want to do before confronting. DO NOT EVER GIVE UP YOUR SOURCE. Too many red flags here to keep track of, just get ready this is not a EA.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> *my gut screamed that wasn't true*. .


 trust your GUT in times like this, its the only thing that won't let you down.........the GUT is always right


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

If he claims she is a friend he is helping out...how come he won't tell you her name?? 

If my wife knew I had a female friend I sent $600 to, at the VERY least she'd need a name and some background!


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> If he claims she is a friend he is helping out...how come he won't tell you her name??
> 
> If my wife knew I had a female friend I sent $600 to, at the VERY least she'd need a name and some background!


oh, i have her name. they work together. he brought her into my house under the disguise of a friend 3 times. she's met my children. she played me for a chump (as did he).

i don't know her boyfriend's name. or where she lives. or anything else about her that is personal. so i can't expose to him to put pressure on her.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

sandals said:


> oh, i have her name. they work together. he brought her into my house under the disguise of a friend 3 times. she's met my children. she played me for a chump (as did he).
> 
> i don't know her boyfriend's name. or where she lives. or anything else about her that is personal. so i can't expose to him to put pressure on her.


Is she on Facebook? If so is she listed as "in a relationship" and is his name linked maybe?


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Nothing on FB. Nothing on Twitter. She is like an internet ghost. Only 2 hits, both work-related (not on LinkedIn).


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

I cannot believe he brought her to your home. 

You will get a lot of good advice here, stick around!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I wouldn't confront him before talking to a lawyer ot at least have some papers to drop on his lap.

I'd do it this way:
a) Sign the papers and take your clothes or
b) Sign a "marriage contract", meet all my expectations with no barganing adn then we will see.

Even better:
Here are the papers, sign them.... Then, if he claims to finnaly see the light tell him you don't believe him, that he must prove you he's serious, this time, that he has meet consistently your expectations for a while so you could consider to put the D on hold. Maybe.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

I agree. Have the papers drawn up. If nothing else, it shows you are serious and have planned and thought this out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Try spokeo.com. put her name, phone number, email on and see if anything pops.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

sandals said:


> do you think i should admit to the VAR? i am worried if he promises me one thing and then continues to lie... it would be my only way of telling.


 Never tell him about the VAR. Telling him would hurt your confrontation not help it, as he will claim that your invasion of his privacy is a bigger issue than him kissing a woman. Tell him that you know that he just wants to know how you know because that will tell him what you know and allow him to spin his lies better. Tell him that all that matters is that you know for sure that he is cheating on you with this other woman enough to file for divorce if he does not end it now. Demand full transpancy which includes all passwords and account information, and full no contact (NC) with this woman other than the minimum amount needed for his work until he or she finds other employment.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thanks, all, for your thoughts & links. I have printed them off. 

It feels like all of a sudden my switch has flipped from hurt to angry. 

I don't live in the US, so can't do the divorce paper thing. But I want him to leave. I don't want to be the one to leave - within reason, obviously, but will it weaken my position to be the one to ask him to do it? I am thinking the answer might be yes.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Confront him with divorce papers AFTER talking to a lawyer .

Get a shark and think of your kids. 

NEVER reveal any of your sources.

Never, Never, Never, Never, Never. 


You can change your minds about divorce later but he's a schumck, screwing some low-life bimbo so think long and hard about how you want to live the rest of your life. 

IMO, cheating while bashing and blaming a spouse is about as low as it goes and I would go nuclear on his cheating a$$. 

But......, that's me and I'm not in love with him. I think you need some emotional help. Can you afford a therapist? Do you work outside the home?

Find some emotional and trustworthy support from therapy, family, and friends. Focus on your children and think of there well being. This is not a man your daughter or don need as a role model. They need YOU as a role model of what is to be tolerated in a relationship. 

Do NOT be bullied. Yes, it's horrifically sad but there are many many people who have come out ok and often times better. 

I lost friends, family, my home, among other things but I am happy I did not settle for so eons who treated me worse than dirt on the bottom of his shoes. 

It's hard to think straight when you can't sleep and you have children and a day to day routine to follow so just handle what you can. 

Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Thinking of the big picture is overwhelming. Just focus on one thing at a time. Oh, and stop talking to your husband about this stuff, he is not your friend right now. He is an enemy that gas betrayed you and your children and should be treated as such. I don't care what dribble you may hear, NONE of this is of was your fault.


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## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

Welcome to the forum sandals. I'm so sorry you're going through this. The confrontation can be tough. I'll be praying for you tomorrow to have the strength and courage you need. I'll also pray that the truth will come out and the lies will stop. Let us know how it goes.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry you are dealing with this.

As far as driving him into the OW's arms, he is already there.

I am of the opinion not to reveal too much.

I would personally take this approach when I talk to hi:

1. Write down what you say and stick to the script. It will keep you grounded and focused. You really don't want your emotions to take over or allow him to manipulate the conversation.
2. Don't reveal your sources of how you got the information.
3. Ask him point blank at the beginning of the conversation, "I want you to tell me about your relationship with "Mary" and I will give you one chance to come clean". "I will not discuss how I know about this relationship nor will I reveal to you what I know, but understand that I know quite a bit and I want to hear from you, how this started and a timeline of events with her". His response will reveal where he is at. Have a VAR on you to record his response. Don't challenge him if he lies or reveals things you don't know, act as if you know. Don't answer questions from him, don't respond if he asks, "Do you believe me?" Stay on script.
4. Depending on his response and give him time to speak without interuption, when he is done speaking ask the following:
a. What is her full name.
b. What is her address
c. her phone number
d. name of BF

5. If your husband gives you this information ask him if he is willing not to contact her about this. If he hesitates and refuses, simply state that any further contact with her other then at work is not acceptable.
6. Ask him for all email, phone, etc accounts. Don't reveal you know about secret ones. Ask him simply how do you communicate with her and see how he responds. Ask him if he has any secret accounts and you want to see them right now without him going in and deleting stuff.

7. If this goes badly, ask him to leave and end the conversation.
8. Don't let his pleading, etc side track you.
9. Stay firm and try not to get emotional.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thank you, everyone. For the support, insights and advice. Honestly, it means a lot to me right now.

Today is the day. I'm going to work first for a couple of hours and then coming home to confront him while the kids are at school. (He does not work on Fridays.) There is a chance the OW may be here as she does not work on Fridays, either. 

I asked him last night what he was doing today. He said he would likely be spending the day planning for Mother's Day and doing some cleaning. The deception just blows me away. It would be so easy for me to close my eyes and look the other way. But I won't. 

Please send me some positive thoughts this afternoon. I will likely be needing them.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Purchase a voice recorder and have it running when you confront him. If there is a possibility the OP is with him, have a someone accompany you, if possible. 

Good luck


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

good luck - keep in touch.......


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good luck and prayers


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

My wife was very non-emotional.

Handed me my wallet with only 1 card (debit card for my account which had only $500 in the account). Told me I had a choice and to decide and she was giving me a day to think it through.

There's the door, go think it over and tell me by the next day or don't come back. BTW, this was my parent's house and I was getting kicked out of their house by my wife.....

When you're faced with the reality of this is it, you make a decision pretty quick and some people actually think it through. The idiots make the rash decision of following their buddy downstair's advice instead of using the big head to think things through.

She had already gone through the crazy wife stage, so at this point everything was rational and to the point.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

I owe you all an update. It will come tomorrow night. Thanks again for the well wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheLily (May 11, 2014)

My heart goes out to you. I hope that it went as well as it could for you.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

hope everything is ok.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Here is my update, a little earlier than night. 

Things did not go as planned on Friday. I pulled the var I had in his truck on Friday morning to take to work to listen to. (I went in early to allow myself time.)

It was the worst I had heard yet. It completely traumatized me to the point where I was howling in pain in my car, crying "no, no, no" over and over. I felt as if I had died. 

I have memory gaps on what was on it and am scared to listen again. Overall, it was a huge character assassination with him sneering about me finally noticing that he's unhappy (in reality I was depressed about his affair) and confident that things would be over soon. That he had no interest in tryin MC. And assuring the OW that she had nothing to feel guilty about, they were meant to be together, that he was going to buy a house with a bedroom for her with her name in sparkly letters for whenever she was ready. I know there was more but those stick out. The rest may have been worse, I don't know.

And while I know this is typical cheater talk...the combination of it all killed me. His voice...so disgusted. I felt hatred, malevolence, deceit, betrayal of everything. With other recordings, I could tolerate him saying he loved her and keep an emotional distance. This hit me everywhere. 

So, while traumatized, I made some bad decisions but am lucky enough to have had good people supporting me. I went to work and had prearranged a meeting with a former manager who had been supporting me. I wanted to check in and say I had regained my strength and thank him for his support. Instead I handed him my resignation letter. I just wanted to be done and leave everything. 

Lucky for me, he refused it. He could see how much i was traumatized. I still needed to get away, I was much too unstable to confront. I drove up north, about 4 hours, to a huge park. I needed to be somewhere awesome where I could clear my head. My work support asked that I take my phone and keep in touch. I did. And also reached out to a few friends. I stayed 2 nights and felt so much better. 

I first told my WS that I was working late and then just I wouldnt be coming home and was staying at a coworkers place. He started to get cranky the next day. I was vague but told him I would be home today.

I drove home this morning. My kids were so happy to see me. <3

He was also here. I waited until I could distract the kids and sent them downstairs. I quietly told him I knew everything. He acted surprised and gave that fake high laugh that liars do. I told him again that I knew everything and about the affair. He continued pretending unti, I moved on to say that it's over. I told him he killed our marriage and that I had always loved him but it's gone. I said kids would be a priority and we would separate as peacefully as we could but he could talk to my lawyer. I asked him to leave, to go to his parents for the week. Then I went downstairs to be with the kids.

He packed. Made a production of saying goodbye to the kids. Asked if he could talk to me upstairs. Looked me in the eye and said he's never cheated on me. I to,d him he broke my heart and to leave. He said he would just out of respect for me but that he hadn't cheated.

I told my mom this morning but then went to expose him to his parents. Talked initially to his dad...whom he'd already told! I asked to talk to his mom. We've had a good relationship. I told her and she was shocked. She asked if I had heard this secondhand. I told her I needed to protect myself and couldn't say how I knew but confided I her a few of the big details. I believe I can trust her.

Shortly after that he texted me and told me to stop spreading slanderous lies about him along with some other drivel.

So it's not over. Seeing a lawyer tomorrow. But at least I'm home with my kids.

He's going to keep gas lighting and manipulating me, so I'd appreciate any call outs on what to look for. And I know I made some mistakes but am happy I've made it to this point. Most importantly, I feel my self doubt disappearing and more whole. I'm also looking for a therapist to work through stuff.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Oh...and I'm done, no interest in R. Too many mind games that are still happening. I can't get past that.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

First 2 things you must do…first thing in the morning get a separate bank account set up and start moving some money over, you will need it, then go to your lawyer and get him/her all the information and a plan started. He will go into major damage control….Do NOT buckle… because he will deny, deny and lie trying to get back. He will deny anything actually happened to everyone that will listen and then start begging to get a second chance. Guarantee they are talking trying to get their story straight and figure out how you know. Never give up your source. From this point forward they will go underground…next its about control…who is in charge…right now you are and do not give up this position of strength. I believe once a cheater always a cheater. 
How many kids?…do you own a home?….you have a good job don’t quit. Stay strong, it will get better, been there, and I ended it and never looked back. Don’t waste your time if he was trashing you to his gf.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

2 kids. Own a house, I can carry it on my own. 

I sent money via emt to a girlfriend last night so I will be opening an account to deposit that in, redirect my paycheck and see a lawyer tomorrow. 

Now he is texting and asking to go see a MC. I'm not engaging him kn anything except the kids.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> 2 kids. Own a house, I can carry it on my own.
> 
> I sent money via emt to a girlfriend last night so I will be opening an account to deposit that in, redirect my paycheck and see a lawyer tomorrow.
> 
> Now he is texting and asking to go see a MC. I'm not engaging him kn anything except the kids.


The script never changes. His next moves are predictable, He's worried about his money don't promise him anything. Make him pay don't be nice. The A will probaby end they don't last once its exposed its not exciting anymore. It likely went on longer than you think - we were all blind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I know it hurts. Unfortunately it will take time. Believe it or not, statistcally you will love again. I know it seems a million miles away.

You are impressive. Executed well. Just curious. Did you get the VAR info from one of my posts or did you get it from another forum?

Lean on your friends. You will need them.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Weightlifter- Thanks for your support. One of my close friends was a member here a while ago and yes, she sent me links to your info. So thank you! 

He is still trying to engage me via text. I believe he thinks I am bluffing and he is trying to call my bluff. Not going to happen. 

Lots to do tomorrow. Fingers crossed I can get it all done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sandals, 

Sorry you are going through this as I know how painful it is. When you come out the other end you will be a much better place. It might not seem like it now, but you will.

What are the laws where you live for recording conversations of between other people? I'm just wondering so that you can get some help with what you can do with the recordings you have.

Make sure that you make copies of them so that even if he were to find the recorder and destroy it, you still have the recordings. One place that you can use to store them on the cloud is www.dropbox.com. They provide free data storage up to some limit which I do not recall.

You might want to also get all valuables out of the house and put them in a safe place. Do the same with your financial and personal papers. You don't want to go to work one day, come home and find out that he entered the house and cleaned you out.

This happened to a sister of mine. She came home and their extensive art collection was gone. It included paintings and artifacts from my family that we have never been able to get back. The police would not do anything because since the divorce was not final, the house was his house too (although he was living with his affair partner then). 

when I went through my divorce I rented a storage space to keep my jewelry, other valuables, personal papers and financial papers.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

you are a strong woman, selfsuficient who deserves respect, you are doing the right thing giving you the value you deserve.

I think that at this point if you honestly as you said (and I support that decission) dont want reconcilation you can play the recording to his parents, if you show them the cruelty of their son actions maybe they will not be in your side but at least they will become neutral in this matter and in the best of the cases their son will lost all credibility and they will take your side.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sandals, 

Here is my educated guess on what will happen. Before you told him that you knew, he was busy playing footsie and a major portion of the allure of the affair was that it was a "secret rendezvous of star-crossed lovers overcoming all obstacles to be together"... (shaking my head that ADULTS would believe that kind of bull*hit). 

Anyway, now that all the fun of the secret and sneaking and whispering stuff he doesn't mean has been pulled out from under him, he'll start to realize that he stands to lose the house, the assets, half his time with his children (at best). Plus, up to now he and the OW have just been seeing each other "at their best" and now he'll see that the OW is needy and her voice is kind of nasal...and she lives in her parent's house and is kind of a nag. Know what I mean? 

In other words, he is used to having the "fun and affair high" of the OW while having good old Sandals around to take care of other needs like paying the bills, taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, etc. NOW he stands to lose all that and he'll likely freak out and try EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK to get you back under his thumb. 

Now I recently told someone these exact words, and the next day her husband tried to email her until she blocked his email, then he switched to Instant Messenger (IM) until she block him on IM...and then he went to Facebook and wrote his 10yo DAUGHTER a message that her mom was being cranky and not letting him come home for dinner any more!! SERIOUSLY!! In one day, he jumped right to harming his own children by blaming their mother for HIS CHOICES!!

So when I say "He will try EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK" ... I mean EVERYTHING. Anything he has ever done in the past that pushed your buttons and got you to do what he wanted, he'll try it. He'll even get so desperate if you don't cave, that he'll try stuff he hadn't tried before ... or stuff that's just below the belt!!

So prepare yourself for that. Brace yourself emotionally and mentally. He is going to try to say and do ANYTHING to get some reaction out of you, and I unless he threatens you or the kids with bodily harm, I want you to IGNORE HIM. That will be the very best message you can send him: silent indifference. Every time he does manage to get through, whether it's through email or IM or text or whatever, either block him or ask yourself: "if the mailman wrote me this, would I care?" Because once he cheated on you, he lost that position in your heart and in your life of "someone you give a [email protected] about". Now he is the grocery clerk to you.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

I think you did amazing. 

Keep posting, I think you could really benefit others in your situation.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thanks again, everyone. I will admit that I am scared of what is to come next week. I think he will come back. Which is why I'm working on seeing a lawyer asap. I don't want to disclose my location but it is not the US. 

All of my files are in a drop box folder. And the recordings. Plus every single clue I found. I took pictures of texts and other stuff on his phone instead of forwarding them to myself so he would have less knowledge on what I know. So audio, visual, etc. is there. 

My friend who told me about tam also listened to the recording for me yesterday. I felt like I needed to know what had hurt me so much but couldn't listen myself. A lot of it was blame shifting every single issue on to me. He said I was using him and felt betrayed because I knew he was such a great catch. And then he said that he had never loved me. I'm sure that is what did me in. The rest was babbling about how they are meant to be together, she shouldn't feel guilty, etc. In retrospect, I can distance myself from it. But I think that at the time when I was so far back on my heels, it ripped everything from me. Not just the present and future, but all of my memories too. 

Oh, and he was groping her breast and there was kissing. I didn't hear that and I'm glad I didn't. But now there's proof. 

She also said **** like she's afraid to let him get close to her in case she gets hurt. But she doesn't want to lose him. And of course he said it would kill him to hurt her. 

So yeah...MC is not happening. Ever. I've not been afraid to go it on my own. I just didn't expect to get everything ripped away. It can't be fixed. 

No texts from him today yet. Likely they're plotting what to do. 

I'm outside work. Was going to go in to provide an update but thought it would be better to let them know I was here and make the decision to see me now or not. To show then respect and rationality. I've had 1 reassuring call. And figure I'd make a better impression at the bank if I'm dressed professionally. I'm going back to work on Thursday. That way I can establish routine without needing to get through a full week. I'll be doing walks, gardening, etc for healing. 

But yeah. Scared of him coming back in terms of my mental health. My key themes are to centralize-avoid huge emotional swings-and compromise-remember that I'm not trapped, it's not one or the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Oh, and I will ignore him but I do need to answer about the kids so I can't block him. 

A bit of anxiety and paranoia setting in. I jump at every text thinking it's him. And I change my phone password every 3 days plus my other private accounts to keep protecting myself. 

If it comes to it, I will play the recordings for his mom. I don't need her to advocate for me but to at least remain neutral and not attack. 

The kids were awesome this morning. <3

Despite the stuff to come, I know in my heart it's going to get better. For the last month I've known it's going to get worse. So now is a good spot to be in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

For you, yourself---you have to keep going to work, and taking care of your home and kids

Am I to understand you cleared out the marital account, make sure you do, put everything in your name----cancel all his CC's for as long as you are married, you are still responsible for what he spends-----so do not allow him to live off of you and the kids, especially with him sending money to his lover, that belongs to you and your kids.

Make sure you stay dark on him----don't talk to him about anything at this point, just file for your D, and move on with your life-----you will see that there IS A WHOLE BIG WIDE WORLD OUT THERE

If it doesn't include him---so be it---that was his choice to make, and he is choosing to live without you---his very big mistake----be good and stay strong


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You've cope extremely well, given the situation.

Good that you know R is out. Makes it simple, not less painful but easier to chart a course to a better life.

Don't reveal your sources.

His family won't believe him.

OW can have him. Their relationship won't last because she is weak and dependent. He will play the strong lover for awhile but the pain and trouble of divorce will ruin the party.

You've no need to display temper or be difficult in divorce. By being decisive and equitable you can get it over quickly and reduce the cost. Your WH will want to R when he realizes his folly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think you are doing as well as could be expected under the circumstances.

I do hope he does not return to your home. Find out the laws where you live about whether or not you can tell him to leave or get police help in getting him out. In most places, it's his legal residence so he has as much right to live there as you do. 

If he returns, the best thing you could do is to move him to another room in the house so you are not sharing a bedroom with him. Then treat him according to the 180 (see the link below).

About the recording you have. Remember that when people are in the middle of an affair, they re-write history. Things like telling her that he never loved you is just nonsense. It's part of the cheater's script. They all say stuff like that to seduce the affair partner. I'm not suggesting that you forgive him. All I'm saying is to not let the words he said into your soul. Do not let them demean you because they are all a pack of lies.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

List of updates:

-met with work yesterday. They are very supportive, letting me take time off while still getting paid. I am so thankful. 
-opened separate banking account and redirected paycheck to it
-just spoke with eap legal counsel and have reference to local counsel. Will get free 30 minute consult and 25% reduction in fees
-intake appointment with therapist today

He texted me yesterday and asked to come home again. Said he could stay in basement or office. Trying to make himself sound like father of the year. Hasn't offered a single word of empathy or confessed to the affair at all. 

I am ignoring him except for when he asks when he can talk to the kids. But I think I need a recording device for our home phone. My oldest son told me he said he wanted to come home to my son. He should not be influencing like that. It's on the list for today. 

Thanks again for all of your support and advice. They help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do your children know why their father is not living at home right now?


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

No, they just know he's staying at his parents for the week. Kids were home when I confronted (they were downstairs) and I wanted to keep it fast and quiet, and didn't spare time to construct a bigger reason.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

Don't share the recording with anyone your husband knows as it may be illegal to record people without their knowledge or consent and you may get in legal trouble. 

The VAR was to give proof to YOU. You have that now so you know what to do to go forward. 

You may not be able to stop him from moving back into his home as he most likely has the right to live there until the courts decide who gets the house and custody of the kids. Check with your Lawyer about your rights ASAP.

Best of luck


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sandals said:


> He texted me yesterday and asked to come home again. Said he could stay in basement or office. Trying to make himself sound like father of the year. Hasn't offered a single word of empathy or confessed to the affair at all.


Just a thought... Tell him that you'd consider letting him come home (though you're still moving ahead w/ separation/divorce) _if and only if_ he fully confesses his infidelity to yourself and your children.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

sandals said:


> 2 kids. Own a house, I can carry it on my own.
> 
> I sent money via emt to a girlfriend last night so I will be opening an account to deposit that in, redirect my paycheck and see a lawyer tomorrow.
> 
> Now he is texting and asking to go see a MC. I'm not engaging him kn anything except the kids.


Stay strong Sandals. 

R is much harder than D and takes years - a lot longer than it will take you to get past this. 

He's asking for MC? Nice one! So he's not quite as much into his lady love as he's telling her? Make sure she knows that - maybe not right now. 

Your kids sound terrific - their love will take you through this.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I'll say it again.

IMPRESSIVE


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> I'll say it again.
> 
> IMPRESSIVE


:iagree:


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Ayiyi. What a day.

Went and got my hair done. Looks awesome, or at least better than it was. Why did I get it done? b/c WH was coming here today to pick up a few things and see the kids.


I left when he got here. 20 minutes later he was texting me. asking when I would get back. yes, 20 minutes, you read that right. he said it was too painful to be at home with what was going on.

he asked me what was going on. he's seeing a lawyer tomorrow. wants to know so he knows what to say. I asked him what he was consulting on - if he was going to tell them the truth. he avoided the question.

asked when he could come home. again. said it was so hard to be in limbo. told him that i knew what it felt like. and i wasn't the one who caused it.

asked what i wanted. i asked him what he wanted. (yes, i deflected a bit.) he said he wanted to come home. i said i needed space.

asked if we could talk on Friday. i said no. too soon. said let's think about Monday. he didn't reply to that.

then he asked again when i was coming home. so i did. he was in the truck and headed out the laneway as soon as he saw my car. 

ugh. the ****ty thing is that when he's asking me, my heart is going a million miles a minute. i'm not ready to tell him i want a D even though I've told him he's killed the marriage. it is scary to say. 

he said "he deeply regrets that he hurt me." but he hasn't said he loves me. hasn't said he wants me back. just that he wants to be home. said he wants it to be easy on the boys. i told him the boys have been happy and he said he's not disputing that. 

ugh, ugh, ugh. it would be so easy to say yes to counseling. yes to him coming home. but he hasn't even confessed. i can't let him hurt me again. and i can't trust him.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

i just need to dig deep and find the courage. for some reason, i wasn't there today. i think i keep hoping he'll confess but it's becoming obvious he won't. and i need to get ready to mourn. something more to wrap my head around. i will get there, i need to. 

part of me wants to push him some more. push him to be the one to come up with a proposal. to say no contact. to spill the details. but i'm starting to think that's an exercise in futility and also in self-masochism. i'm pretty sure it is, ain't it? 

it's hard to let go.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Sandals, I'm so sorry you were forced into this situation. You don't have to decide anything right this minute. Take some time to clear your head and get your bearings. Talk to your attorney and know your rights. I'm impressed With how strong you are. You and your kids will get through this.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

We all thought if we just got back together the pain would end and everything would workout then return to normal. But that's just not the truth. It will never be the same. The M you had is gone. Show no fear in front of him. Be strong to survive before you know it the pain will end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've done so well at showing your WH that you are worth more than he has been giving you.

I know it's so hard when your heart is aching for one thing, but your head tells you that it isn't good for you. Unfortunately, you have to fake it until you make it; your heart will eventually catch up with your head.

Keep standing tall. Be strong. Keep that spine stiff. It's time to stand on pride instead of hewing to your heart. We have pride for a reason & now is the perfect time for you to rely on your pride and self-respect. They will lead you to the best outcome for yourself.

A wonderful poster here, the guy, has said that he used a mantra when he was in such pain from his wife's infidelity. He told himself, "I deserve good things." This helped him do what was right for him.

You really do deserve good things. If you face this down with grace, self-respect, and strength, you will have those good things in the end. Read other threads here. You will see that that is what happens.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*There's an awfully strong element of trickle-truthing here, at least IMHO. I firmly believe that the EA he has acknowledged may well have already gone PA at some point in time.

Unless he agrees to give you full and honest disclosure, it's fastly time to shut the door on him! This is not your fault ~ you are the victim here! And you deserve far better than the tripe that he's busy selling you!

Quit letting him play "Mushroom Farm" with you, where the objective of the game is to simply keep you in the dark and just keep feeding you an absolute load of crap!!*


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

You guys... Thank you. This helps so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Sandals, just remember the things he said to OW about you and about your marriage when you feel your resolve begin to slip. You are doing the right things.

Inspirational image: His [email protected] hanging as a rear-view-mirror ornament.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *There's an awfully strong element of trickle-truthing here, at least IMHO. I firmly believe that the EA he has acknowledged may well have already gone PA at some point in time.
> 
> Unless he agrees to give you full and honest disclosure, it's fastly time to shut the door on him! This is not your fault ~ you are the victim here! And you deserve far better than the tripe that he's busy selling you!
> 
> Quit letting him play "Mushroom Farm" with you, where the objective of the game is to simply keep you in the dark and just keep feeding you an absolute load of crap!!*


The sad part is that he hasn't even acknowledged an EA. Still denies everything. Am sure he's wondering how I know but I'm not giving up my sources. 

What a ****er. Asking for counseling bUT not having the balls to own the problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Remember the old saying of women use sex to get love and men use love to get sex. Unless you have direct evidence otherwise, it is likely a PA. IE: What happened those missing four hours after work?...

Dont doubt that OW is using the turmoil to get closer to him. Likely monkey vining to a higher status male. Unfortunately yours.

Lean on your friends. Vent here. Some of us stick with our charges here through the healing part too.

Read poster Whyeme
Read poster BFF
Sorry both are male but we get mostly men here. Still you can see the process. Whyeme broke up with his first new gf but you know what? It was a nice NORMAL break up. No one was devastated. You can watch the slow turn. ITs not all up hill once turned. There will be ups and downs. 

I promise, if you let yourself heal, you will.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

sandals said:


> he said "he deeply regrets that he hurt me." but he hasn't said he loves me. hasn't said he wants me back. just that he wants to be home. said he wants it to be easy on the boys. i told him the boys have been happy and he said he's not disputing that.
> 
> ugh, ugh, ugh. it would be so easy to say yes to counseling. yes to him coming home. but he hasn't even confessed. i can't let him hurt me again. and i can't trust him.


if you want to destroy any possiblity of R and remind you why you have to divorce play de recording and listen all of it, but once you do it there is not coming back from it, even if you try R the things you hear can not be unhear, so do it just if you are 100% convinced that you want D and need a push to do it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

She has heard enough Mant. She is only upping the damage.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Looks like it is done. Message from him below. Guess he was saying the truth. 

Today, I allow myself to wallow and beg for no more pain. Finishing second half of century club. Tomorrow, it is time to move on. Onward and upward. 

Sandals


Hey Sandals. I've consulted my lawyer and he is suggesting Mediation and Counseling for us. I think we need to discuss how we want to go about ending this relationship together. We also need to do this in a timely fashion so we can have a joint talk with the children. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

So sorry Sandals. I would not even respond back to him. You should see your attorney and ask him/her to draw up the divorce petition and have him served ASAP. Have you exposed his affair yet? If not, you should before he gives everyone his pitiful spin on the breakdown of your marriage. Pack up his stuff into garbage bags, put it on the front lawn, and tell him to come and get it. Take care of yourself and your children.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

manticore said:


> if you want to destroy any possiblity of R and remind you why you have to divorce play de recording and listen all of it, but once you do it there is not coming back from it, even if you try R the things you hear can not be unhear, so do it just if you are 100% convinced that you want D and need a push to do it.


S'allright, wl, I got this one.

Mant - I hear what you're saying. I was doing this with the recording I got from May 1. May 8 somehow damaged me. I can't remember most of it and props to wl for helping me with it. 

So, I get it. And thank you for it. Just can't listen to it again without causing me more issues than him. But I do appreciate your callout. Truly.

Sandals


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

karole said:


> So sorry Sandals. I would not even respond back to him. You should see your attorney and ask him/her to draw up the divorce petition and have him served ASAP. Have you exposed his affair yet? If not, you should before he gives everyone his pitiful spin on the breakdown of your marriage. Pack up his stuff into garbage bags, put it on the front lawn, and tell him to come and get it. Take care of yourself and your children.


Talked to my attorney shortly thereafter. Messaged him that we would talk on Monday. Divorce works a little differently where I'm from, but my attorney is on the same page I am. 

I have exposed him to my fam and his fam. The only thing I haven't done is expose them to work. Not sure if it's worth it, seeing as D is going to be next, not R. I need to detach myself from his future, not impact it and continue to get the beat-downs.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Century club done. Not to kid anyone here, was not doing full-sizes. Got to watch out for myself. But still, felt good. 

Also, watched Gladiator while playing. Such a good flick. And collected quotes.

"What we do in life echoes in eternity."

"The time for honouring yourself will soon be at an end."

wl - that U is for you. 

Sandals


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

southernsurf said:


> We all thought if we just got back together the pain would end and everything would workout then return to normal. But that's just not the truth. It will never be the same. The M you had is gone. Show no fear in front of him. Be strong to survive before you know it the pain will end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right, ss. Thank you for the perspective. <3


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

sandals said:


> Looks like it is done. Message from him below. Guess he was saying the truth.
> 
> Today, I allow myself to wallow and beg for no more pain. Finishing second half of century club. Tomorrow, it is time to move on. Onward and upward.
> 
> ...


I am NOT a fan of exposing at work unless you can do it to carpet bomb the OW. Yes I love revenge. Yes I am part Klingon. 

All I see is workplace exposure is messing around with alimony balance. I would find out the laws RE spousal support. 

Also given you have kids I recommend the summer between school years to tell them and get them acclimated before the year starts not during it.

He is a turd stain but DO be the good co-parent. As much incredible fun dissing him to the kids is... DONT. You have the hardest job in the world. Raising kids to their age of majority in a reasonably efficient manner. 

DO set the expectations RE BOTH OF YOU dating during the separation up NOW. I know it seems redundant but be explicit if you will either BOTH be dating or BOTH not. Yes I know another man is #9094834543839468 on your list of things you want now but sh!t happens and it needs to be explicit 'yes' or 'no' on dating so it can not be thrown back at you.

WL


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> I am NOT a fan of exposing at work unless you can do it to carpet bomb the OW. Yes I love revenge. Yes I am part Klingon.
> 
> All I see is workplace exposure is messing around with alimony balance. I would find out the laws RE spousal support.
> 
> ...


1. I would never put the kids in the position of having to emotionally struggle on which parent has done what. I do think it's important for them to know the truth, though. This is going to be part of Monday's discussion. I don't want to be the bad guy, but I will be the support.

2. Workplace exposure is very f*ing tempting, but I share the concerns on alimony, etc. Esp. cause I make more than he does. But I would love to see them f*ed.

3. Dating rules will be set up, per my discussion with attorney today. Not because I am wanting to date...that won't happen for a long time...but because of the f*ing garbage sk*nk. I don't want my kids to see her. Selfish? Yes. Unreasonable? No.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sandals said:


> Talked to my attorney shortly thereafter. Messaged him that we would talk on Monday. Divorce works a little differently where I'm from, but my attorney is on the same page I am.
> 
> I have exposed him to my fam and his fam. *The only thing I haven't done is expose them to work.* Not sure if it's worth it, seeing as D is going to be next, not R. I need to detach myself from his future, not impact it and continue to get the beat-downs.


*I'd querry my attorney about that particular point! But one thing is for certain ~ if they're of age, you keep custody of the kids! And that's not subject to negotiation!*


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I don't know about there Sandals, but here you can have a morality clause in your agreement which prevents any overnight guests and introductions to significant others to the children. 

Just do whatever you need to in order to protect yourself and your children. Let the OW have the POS, they deserve one another. You, my dear, deserve a lot better!!


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Well, we haven't even had our attorneys get into it. Per his text, he wants mediation. I will ask for sole custody to give myself a strong starting point. We'll see where it goes from there. 

Most Ds here are no-fault. But I know that with his job, he couldn't have the kids during the week, except on Fridays. And I won't let him be the fun weekend dad. That's b*ll****.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*What state are you in, Sandals? If you don't mind me asking, of course?*


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> 2. Workplace exposure is very f*ing tempting, but I share the concerns on alimony, etc. Esp. cause *I make more than he does*. But I would love to see them f*ed.
> .


Good for you - play to win. Take him down and 'show no fear'


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *I'd querry my attorney about that particular point! But one thing is for certain ~ if they're of age, you keep custody of the kids! And that's not subject to negotiation!*


I'm happy to share via PM. I'm not in the US, but would like to keep my country of origin private.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Re dating. Like i said. I realize dating is way way down on the list.

Its a year from now and its his weekend. You and another recently divorced friend hit the town... Blah blah blah. What men and women do together happens...

Just make sure you are covered so it cant be used against you.

Never say never. I bet his cruelty, me typing this particular message at you and your impending divorce would seem ludicris a year ago if someone told you it would happen.

Cover all bases.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Once the D, is final---then you should most definitely sue his lover for Emotional Distress, as I have already discussed, above------not only bring the action for yourself, but bring an action against his lover for each one of your kids---who are now going to have to live in split homes, and be shuttled back and forth----2 people are responsible for that, AND SHE IS ONE OF THOSE TWO PEOPLE


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Well, it's late here. I'm on page 48 of bff's thread which has been a good read. And I am feeling more at peace.

On reflection, the source of pain today was him stating end of marriage. And I knew that while I didn't feel I could R, D felt scary and so final. Maybe I thought we could hang out in S for a while. 

It's very hard to believe that in a little over a month I've gone from finding a couple of emails to being gaslighted to superspy to D. It's been an emotional roller coaster at the speed of a supersonic jet. And I still wish it had never happened or for some sort of do-over where I could rewrite his script. But I need to look forward and find strength...centralize and compromise where necessary to be the best for myself and my kids. 

And some of the good things came back to me tonight. The environment is different with him gone. Calmer. More harmonious. Of course, I always appreciated the verve he inserted, but I can dig the laid-back, too.

My mom called tonight and insisted again that I pray to god as well as expressed her doubts that I could do this on my own. And no offense to those who are religious, but this is not my path and it sickened me a little to use this as a conversion opportunity. I'm sure she means well in her own strange way. I think I can do it on my own anyways.

We'll be having a large talk on Monday. All I can bring to that is my desired life for me and the kids and an awareness of his deceit. I think tomorrow I will start reaching out to a few more people. I've kept my network tight through this and believe I will benefit from expanding it choicefully at this time.

Sandals


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sandals said:


> My mom called tonight and insisted again that I pray to god as well as expressed her doubts that I could do this on my own. And no offense to those who are religious, but this is not my path and it sickened me a little to use this as a conversion opportunity. I'm sure she means well in her own strange way. I think I can do it on my own anyways.


I'm a believer and, to me, prayer without action amounts to little more than words, and is of no more use than a rambling, one-sided conversation with an empty beer can.

That's not to say that the Almighty can't, won't, or doesn't intervene in our lives, but I'm inclined to believe that, for the most part, He does not. Our time here is just that -- _our_ time, and _our_ test. What would be the point in that if all He ever did was to do everything for us?

At any rate, you're doing well! Stay strong, and keep pushing forward!


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> Century club done. Not to kid anyone here, was not doing full-sizes. Got to watch out for myself. But still, felt good.
> 
> Sandals


Which century club did you join? Slow on the drinking, it clouds the issues....... ;-)


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

southernsurf said:


> Which century club did you join? Slow on the drinking, it clouds the issues....... ;-)


Agreed. Bad, impulsive decision. Won't be repeating. Promise.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I'm a believer and, to me, prayer without action amounts to little more than words, and is of no more use than a rambling, one-sided conversation with an empty beer can.
> 
> That's not to say that the Almighty can't, won't, or doesn't intervene in our lives, but I'm inclined to believe that, for the most part, He does not. Our time here is just that -- _our_ time, and _our_ test. What would be the point in that if all He ever did was to do everything for us?
> 
> At any rate, you're doing well! Stay strong, and keep pushing forward!


I respect that. My issue is that she means it more around decision-making and healing. Like I said, not my path. As much as I don't want this pain, I know it's part of the healing process. I really cried yesterday for the first time. As awful as it was, it's needed to move on to the next stage. I don't believe that committing this to god will benefit me. And that's just my life approach, certainly others will feel and do differently, and if it helps them then I support it for their paths.

It's a new day! :yay: I'm going to make it better than yesterday.

Sandals


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

sandals said:


> Century club done. Not to kid anyone here, was not doing full-sizes. Got to watch out for myself. But still, felt good.
> 
> Also, watched Gladiator while playing. Such a good flick. And collected quotes.
> 
> ...


Century club. Wow the games from college these days. Calced it out to .20 BAC @ 120 lbs. <---- not dumb enough to use any other weight

Then I realized it was more along the lines of a metaphor.

Hope you are doing better Sandals.

oh wait today might be the day for virtual shouting on the hangover

HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL SANDALS!!!

#emote run and hide


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

sandals said:


> My mom called tonight and insisted again that I pray to god as well as expressed her doubts that I could do this on my own. And no offense to those who are religious, but this is not my path and it sickened me a little to use this as a conversion opportunity. I'm sure she means well in her own strange way. I think I can do it on my own anyways.
> 
> Sandals


I use to think we do everything ourselves but I learned a looooong time ago it just ain't so….. life, karma, equilibrium, journey…… you will look back and see a guiding hand you never knew exists……coincidence you found a few emails, naw …. peace definition the absence of anxiety… eyes open, head up, feet forward, peace


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Let the money games begin. He has almost drained the accounts. I'm so glad I protected myself. 

We meet on Monday to talk. This changes things. Every time I lower my guard even a bit he gets nastier.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Take notes. In most of the first world. Judges look at ALL money transfers

Document document document. 

AND SAVE IN TWO places. Once cloud and one usb stick in care of a friend or safe deposit box.

Im kinda thinking you are just about as opposite of the helpless female out there as there is. 

#betting Sandals can give as good as she takes on this one.

Besides. You have obnoxious me advising on this thread.

Hubs has no fvcking idea what he is up against.

<--- part Klingon!


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Heh. Klingon, eh? Love it. 

In the world without kids, I would be a contender. But kids are my kryptonite. I would die before I would hurt my kids. I would false R to keep them happy if that were an option. I know in my heart it's not but wish that it could be. 

Documenting underway. All of our auto withdrawals are linked to that account so for the time being I'm drawing up a calendar with days and amounts and will transfer real time to cover. 

These are not the actions of a man who wants to R. These are not the actions of a man at all; he's being less mature than my 5 yo. I guess this is where the dignity part kicks in and I keep my head held high. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If you want what is best for your kids---then you do not R with your so-called H, for any reason---he is a horrible parent----a good parent DOES NOT SUBJECT HIS OWN KIDS TO WHAT THEY ARE GONNA BE FACED WITH


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Jnj: truth. But they (the kids) don't know that. 

Help request, please, on 2 things. 

1. Meeting tomorrow. Anticipating he'll ask about counseling. I'll lay out conditions as below. 
1. Confession: when, what, where, etc. I think he'll still deny. If not, he'll gaslight. But still need to ask.
2. No contact. He quits job. No contact letter. Plus her home details so I can expose to her boyfriend of 19 years. 
3. Remorse. Per guilt vs. Remorse 
4. Considering a no-control-over-finances. He has proven himself not trustworthy. 
Feel like I'm missing something. thoughts? He'll never agree. 

Second topic. My oldest's birthday is coming up. I do not want to tell him before. I think he will associate the 2 and that's not fair on him. Am considering letting WH home for 2 weeks to live in basement. I can handle it. 

Please give me best and worst case scenarios for what happens after.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It doesn't sound like your WH is in an R mode at all. If you want to try to push him in that direction, I would expose to the AP's bf of 19 years as of yesterday. Do this without any warning to anyone, esp. your WH.

From what you've reported, your WH wants to get out of the marriage and is headed for the OW. If he follows the standard script, he will deny there's an OW until D is filed & then suddenly she will be introduced as his 'new love.' Some people may be skeptical, but many will accept this. After all, what is it their business?

If you blow it up with the bf of the OW, you have a chance of getting your WH to rethink his strategy regarding the points above. He will be furious, of course, and initially decide that he hates you even more. You would have to be strong and weather this. Also - and this is no small point - the bf definitely has a right to know.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thanks, alte Dame. I don't really want to R, but he has been pushing counseling (looking to false R, maybe pressure from his parents). I just want to have my bases covered. I would only R for the kids...and, well, I don't think that would work. As I know most people agree that it doesn't. 

Agreed that the bf has a right to know. I haven't been able to track down any of the OW's home details so haven't yet been able to contact him.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If he wants counseling---HE GOES TO AN IC, all by himself---when YOU get a favorable report from the his IC---then you MIGHT CONSIDER---MC---till then---stay DARK on your H

Do not discuss anything else---except things being done for the kids---STAY DARK, and completely unavailable---for now----let your h twist in the wind for awhile----not knowing what his future will be

Also I see you are jumping in with advice here and there---that is good for you---remember the sun will shine tomorrow---make sure you enjoy it


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

One thing I forgot above----this is now your ballgame by your rules---you dictate---he listens---there is no other way

You do not argue/discuss, you tell him the way it WILL BE----also do it with icy cool and calm----state your piece and leave---do not allow him to get you into a discussion---he cheated this is part of his accountability

Your weapon---is threat of D---and make it very plain to him----play by your rules---or he can get himself an atty. to defend a coming D action


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Also, you may want to get out ahead of the disinformation campaign that he surely has planned in order to allow him to 'introduce' his chicky OW as his new love once it's clear you are divorcing. He denies the A and then insists later that the OW is a brand new, post-divorce relationship.

This may or may not bother you. I know it really bugs many people & it's extremely common.

If the prospect of this bothers you, perhaps you can tell him that you have solid, incontrovertible proof that he has been unfaithful, that her identity is part of your proof, and that you have saved this in a safe place and have a fail safe method of exposure if he tries any funny business with it. Tell him that everyone will see this proof if he lies to others about their relationship.

Never, of course, tell him how you know what you know, just that you know a lot more than he thinks.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thanks so much. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't get to see how much he hurt me. He lost that privilege and will not get it back. The time for him hurting me is over. Now he gets teeth and ice. 

Will stay dark. Good advice. 

Will also continue exposure. This is my story to tell, not his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Rule 1 remember the VARS DO NOT EXIST!
Rule 2 remember the VARS DO NOT EXIST!
Rule 3 remember the VARS DO NOT EXIST!
Rule 4 remember the VARS DO NOT EXIST!
Rule 5 remember the VARS DO NOT EXIST!
Rule 6 See my PM.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

What's that? I heard something about a bar...or a car...?

never heard of that var thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sandals said:


> Second topic. My oldest's birthday is coming up. I do not want to tell him before. I think he will associate the 2 and that's not fair on him. Am considering letting WH home for 2 weeks to live in basement. I can handle it.


If he's already out, don't let him back in; that's more painful for the kids.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

turnera said:


> If he's already out, don't let him back in; that's more painful for the kids.


And you.


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Okay. So what is the general consensus on unremorseful lying cheating cowards? Yup, that about sums up today's conversation. 

Overall mixed rating from my perspective after listening to recording. Felt stronger when I left in person but the first half pisses me off. Excuse the swearing, need to blow off steam. 

+stuck to my guns on confess, NC, remorse
-no commitment from him
+finally dragged out a quasi confession: he grew "close" to someone. The fvcker was not going to admit to anything until we went to counseling. Coward. 
- he won't cop to anything else. I won't bring up details from var. (There is still one in his truck I need to remove and I don't want him getting suspicious). Stalemate.
+He won't fvck with me and money again
-he still claims he gave the wh0re HIS money. From his loc. Which he uses our money to pay off. Pathetic. 
+I got some good zingers in. "You're a coward and a liar and you don't deserve me. I'm too good for you." "If you want to blow up our family and blow up our boys' lives, I will be fine and I'll make sure the boys are fine. And if you want to stay with that piece of trash, your life is going to be hell." (there were a few other good ones, told him he should be on his knees begging forgiveness)
-put up with him stalling and gaslighting in the beginning way too long. He even called my reaction extreme. Asshat.
+ texted him this at the end:Just so you understand: I will not engage in any "pick me dances." This is not a choice between 2 women. If you want her, then just ****ing go and leave me the **** alone. I will be better off.
-Didn't give him a deadline on answer

I have come to realize that I am wearing 2 hats in every conversation. 1 as parent and 1 as BS. It is a challenge to balance. 

I don't want a nasty D. I just want him to go. I also realized today (after this) that I want me to be healthy coming out of this. Despite not being a clear winner in hindsight after listening again, I did feel good coming out because most of my blows were in the back half of this talk. But I can clearly see that there is an 80% chance this will not get to any next steps. Even if he passes the prequisites for counseling, it doesn't mean that it will work. 

So. I can choose to not worry about deadline setting and keep counting separation from last week. It won't make a difference anyways. While doing that, I can keep 180'ing. Or I can go back and re engage and set a deadline. I am reluctant to invest any more of my emotional energy into the coward. It appears D is in the near future. Don't anyone say sorry. I'm okay with that. 

Sandals
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You ARE a winner because you've shed a lying cheat.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

BE CAREFUL on that last VAR.

DO NOT listen to them having sex!!!!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

sandals said:


> *Okay. So what is the general consensus on unremorseful lying cheating cowards? Yup, that about sums up today's conversation. *
> 
> Overall mixed rating from my perspective after listening to recording. Felt stronger when I left in person but the first half pisses me off. Excuse the swearing, need to blow off steam.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately most all people who can justify cheating are this way. So sorry that you are going through this. You need to think about protecting yourself now and your assets. I hope it all goes well for you


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

Thanks, guys. I am pretty good for asset protection. At least right now. 

First day back at work was okay. I'm lucky to have a good crew. 

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind if he fell off the face of the earth and didn't resurface. Space is good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandals (May 8, 2014)

I set up an email for my oldest so he could email his dad. My kid was tickled pink. <3 

What does this have to do with anything? I want the kids to have the best transition possible, whether or not he will enable it. I just want the rest to be quick.


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## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

How are you doing sandals?


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