# sick of my confrontational partner



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Long story short, I've been married for close to 5 years. Over the years we have had issues and some suspicion, sexual frustration that I recently squashed (appreciate everyone that gave me valuable advise on my older posts). I have been proactively giving all I can to prevent the marriage from failing. I spend good 2~3 hours EVERY day to do chores (that was one of my wife's biggest complaints before even though I always felt like I did my share) which is significant improvement from before. I take more interest in what she has to say, about her work, friends, other mom friends who I don't really care about. I give her more emotional support for things even when I dont necessary agree. I comply to her request to spend more time with her friends, family, etc.. 

The problem is I am trying my best to avoid arguments when she forces it and makes it inevitable. Even if it's a situation where its simply an argument rooted in difference in personal preference and standards, I let her have her way most of the time for the sake of marriage. What's beyond irritating is that sometimes when she wakes up in the morning or comes back from work, I can just see in her face that there is going to be a fight from the way she looks tired/unhappy. In that case I put in extra work to "pamper" her and other nice things (giving her leg massage, brewing her fav latte, etc..) just so she won't nitpick about SOMETHING, but nope, it ALWAYS happens. 

Now, I m ok with arguments that focus on learning to compromise, however she does this thing where if she has issues A and B that she's mad about, she will pull the reason from issue B on why she is annoyed to justify her argument for issue A. basically shes mashing up isolated issues to strengthen her overall argument. I absolutely can't stand this. I am a type that will really listen and if you make a valid case against my action, I willingly accept and admit to my fault. All she has to do is address issue A and present reasons for why things upset her. If it makes sense I will accept, if not, we will DISCUSS it, not resorting to *****ING AND SCREAMING. She will go as far as digging up issues that we already discussed/fought about 238923402 times previously and already agreed on a closure if it means she can use it to leverage it.

I believe in fair argument no matter how angry you are. To me, using unrelated issue is "below the belt" move that is shameless and classless. I could do the same and let her have the taste of her own medicine but I refuse to stoop down to that level. I talked to her about this many times and she is usually compliant and agreeable when she's in a good mood, but as soon as things go south shes back at being malicious. 

When I argue, I argue to correct her actions that I find incorrect or PERSONALLY bothersome to me, I never do it to inflict as much emotional damage on her possible. It is a mystery to me how someone grows up like this. 

Anyone got any insight on this?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

From this, and what you have said before, it is a variant of moving goal posts. It seems as if your wife is insistent on always finding something, regardless of what it is, and how many things you can think of to remove from her list of complaints.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

My advice is to keep doing the positive things that you've changed. However, STOP pandering to her unfair tactics. That is not working, and it makes you look like a weak doormat. Listen to her, of course, but do not let her get away with conflating unrelated issues. Keep them separate. If she refused to be reasonable, tell her that you'll talk to her about issue A or issue B, separately, at different times - and stick to that even if it means saying that now is not a good time, and leave the room.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Buddy this woman has you running around like a headless chicken and soon she will come out with some bs excuse for treating you like crap and you will happily believe her.
Her excuse for bringing extra knickers to work is a classic.
Honestly a ****in classic!


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Have you read "no more mr nice guy" and "hold on to your nuts"
Should take you like 6 hours to read both... go do it


I think there are a few chapters in both books that will help you with your situation.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DaveinOC said:


> basically shes mashing up isolated issues to strengthen her overall argument. *I absolutely can't stand this*. ... She will go as far as digging up issues that we already discussed/fought about 238923402 times previously and already agreed on a closure if it means she can use it to leverage it.


Ah, but you DO stand it, merely by the fact that she digs up ancient history and you stay around to hear it. Leave the room. Pull the plug on a rehash of the same-old, same-old. You vacate her space.



DaveinOC said:


> I believe in fair argument no matter how angry you are. To me, using unrelated issue is "below the belt" move that is shameless and classless. I could do the same and let her have the taste of her own medicine but I refuse to stoop down to that level. *I talked to her about this many times* and she is usually compliant and agreeable when she's in a good mood, but as soon as things go south shes back at being malicious.


She keeps bringing up history and/or arguing in a way you find crass. You keep addressing said issue with her. Stop talking about it. Take action. Again, LEAVE THE ROOM when she goes into her hellcat mode. 

As to why she acts this way, I don't know. I can only speculate. And, from my own experience, I have found that people will treat us the way we allow them to treat us.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

DaveinOC said:


> *The problem is I am trying my best to avoid arguments when she forces it and makes it inevitable. Even if it's a situation where its simply an argument rooted in difference in personal preference and standards, I let her have her way most of the time for the sake of marriage. *


Why? I get not wanting to have a combative relationship but why do you feel like you can't ever have your way? Do you try just, you know, saying "Eh, whatever" and doing what you feel is best?



> What's beyond irritating is that sometimes when she wakes up in the morning or comes back from work, I can just see in her face that there is going to be a fight from the way she looks tired/unhappy. In that case I put in extra work to "pamper" her and other nice things (giving her leg massage, brewing her fav latte, etc..) just so she won't nitpick about SOMETHING, but nope, it ALWAYS happens.


I have a somewhat argumentative husband. I've learned a couple things: Resting ***** face is deceptive and His Mood is Not My Mood. I'm a happy person in general. I do not have to become unhappy if my husband is unhappy. Most of the time if I don't get sucked into trying to make him happy he'll just join me on his own. If he is sad/angry and wants to talk it out, I always listen but I don't have to be unhappy. He also might be unhappy and wants to solve it himself. I give him the space to do so knowing that if he needs me, I am right here.



> Now, I m ok with arguments that focus on learning to compromise, however she does this thing where if she has issues A and B that she's mad about, she will pull the reason from issue B on why she is annoyed to justify her argument for issue A. basically shes mashing up isolated issues to strengthen her overall argument. I absolutely can't stand this. I am a type that will really listen and if you make a valid case against my action, I willingly accept and admit to my fault. All she has to do is address issue A and present reasons for why things upset her. If it makes sense I will accept, if not, we will DISCUSS it, not resorting to *****ING AND SCREAMING. She will go as far as digging up issues that we already discussed/fought about 238923402 times previously and already agreed on a closure if it means she can use it to leverage it.
> 
> I believe in fair argument no matter how angry you are. To me, using unrelated issue is "below the belt" move that is shameless and classless. I could do the same and let her have the taste of her own medicine but I refuse to stoop down to that level. I talked to her about this many times and she is usually compliant and agreeable when she's in a good mood, but as soon as things go south shes back at being malicious.


What do you argue about? Can you give an example of how B gets brought into A?


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

FrenchFry said:


> What do you argue about? Can you give an example of how B gets brought into A?


Yes, for example the other day we were fighting over money. I get paid on the 15th and 30th (our company is bleh so we get physical checks, no direct deposit so it takes at least a few days for check to clear once I deposit) of each month and our mortgage payment is auto-scheduled on the 15th, so what I have been doing is I move the fund I am planning to deposit from our savings -> checking so we have enough balance in the checking acct immediately, and I deposit my check into savings to replenish that amount. It's not that we don't have enough money across saving / checking but we typically leave very little fund in checking and put away as much as we can into savings, that's why some months our checking acct balance is tight.

The other day my wife called me angry at my work saying the checking account was overdrafted. It is both our fault that our spending got somewhat loose in December buying gifts here and there and we didn't care too much about how much was going out. Anyhow, she started going off about how I move fund from savings -> checking without discussing with her first, even though this has always been the practice and I always tell her when I do it, which doesn't bother her generally. She somehow tied it to the reason for overdraft with the fact that I, 1) move fund from savings -> checking 2) I am too lazy to deposit the check right away, even though I usually deposit on the day of or 1 day after receiving my check.

She doesnt like me moving funds between account without discussing with her, I get that. Even if its purely out of practical reason, she wants to be included in that joint decision so I respect her wanting me to let her know, even if I am planning to put the money right back into it. But what I don't like is how she associated THAT to our checking account being overdrafted. In reality I m depositing money indirectly in a way that gives us flexibility to make checking account fund available immediately, and in a practical sense, this is equivalent of me depositing it directly into checking and the fund being available right away, so whether I am moving fund or hypotehtically my deposited check is posted right away is not the core issue of why overdraft occurred. do you see what I m saying?

I told her repeatedly that overdraft problem is issue A and me moving fund without telling her is issue B, but she thinks my action that irritates her from issue B is what directly CAUSED issue A. It makes 0 sense. 

Like I said, I apologized for issue B and told her in the future I will tell her when I m moving fund even if I am going to replenish it before she knows it, BUT I told her overdraft is the result of us not being careful with our holiday spending.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

DaveinOC said:


> Yes, for example the other day we were fighting over money. I get paid on the 15th and 30th (our company is bleh so we get physical checks, no direct deposit so it takes at least a few days for check to clear once I deposit) of each month and our mortgage payment is auto-scheduled on the 15th, so what I have been doing is I move the fund I am planning to deposit from our savings -> checking so we have enough balance in the checking acct immediately, and I deposit my check into savings to replenish that amount. It's not that we don't have enough money across saving / checking but we typically leave very little fund in checking and put away as much as we can into savings, that's why some months our checking acct balance is tight.
> 
> The other day my wife called me angry at my work saying the checking account was overdrafted. It is both our fault that our spending got somewhat loose in December buying gifts here and there and we didn't care too much about how much was going out. Anyhow, she started going off about how I move fund from savings -> checking without discussing with her first, even though this has always been the practice and I always tell her when I do it, which doesn't bother her generally. She somehow tied it to the reason for overdraft with the fact that I, 1) move fund from savings -> checking 2) I am too lazy to deposit the check right away, even though I usually deposit on the day of or 1 day after receiving my check.
> 
> ...


With the risk of repeating myself,why do you allow her to treat you like this.
Something you have been doing for ages is now a problem according to her and you apologize!
This may seem kinda rude but have you ever just told her to **** off and get off your back.
Try it,it works wonders.


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

As much as putting up with this kills me inside, me going off on her is going to drag on the fight further and I am unable to function. shes a type to get mad, fight and be just fine and dandy with other stuff, but while i m in that state of "cold war" I can't function cuz i am so bothered and stressed out. so people ask me if i can't live with / without sucking it up, why not just split, but me going my own way is going to bother me equally as much. so i feel kind of screwed. I have this almost OCD like quality with wanting to maintain that settled "normal" state, and to me personally, being divorced is not what I consider a "normal" state. It probably has to do with my upbringing where my hardcore christian mom putting divorce in the same severe category as something like murder or adultery, so naturally I never ever consider divorce as an option and the fact that she's making it exteremely difficult for me to prevent things going that direction is what ultimately annoys the **** out of me.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

DaveinOC said:


> As much as putting up with this kills me inside, me going off on her is going to drag on the fight further and I am unable to function. shes a type to get mad, fight and be just fine and dandy with other stuff, but while i m in that state of "cold war" I can't function cuz i am so bothered and stressed out. so people ask me if i can't live with / without sucking it up, why not just split, but me going my own way is going to bother me equally as much. so i feel kind of screwed. I have this almost OCD like quality with wanting to maintain that settled "normal" state, and to me personally, being divorced is not what I consider a "normal" state. It probably has to do with my upbringing where my hardcore christian mom putting divorce in the same severe category as something like murder or adultery, so naturally I never ever consider divorce as an option and the fact that she's making it exteremely difficult for me to prevent things going that direction is what ultimately annoys the **** out of me.


Oh, this is a good one!

You both made a mistake right? Spent too much money, didn't keep an eye on checking and overdrafted. That is like the core.

You come at this procedurally. "Well, I do X because of Y. X didn't work out this time, I'll keep better track of it."

Your wife is coming at this emotionally. "We lost money and I am angry because I am in the dark about X."

Neither of you are wrong but neither of you heard each other either. You are trying to keep the peace BUT you are going about it all wrong because you are trying to get there by pointing out the efficency of procedure while avoiding the emotion. She gets more angry because you aren't acknowledging the emotion and your procedure seems to be the cause of it.

To get to the settled state, you actually have to DEAL with the emotion. Not explain it away. Not smooth it over. Deal with it. 

It's okay to be a bit angry about mistakes. If I saw that we over drafted with plenty of money to avoid it, I'd be really annoyed as well.

What doesn't fix anger though is over-justification. Just acknowledge the anger. "Hey, it is really ****ty that we over drafted. I'm frustrated about it too."

Don't apologize over procedure, it doesn't fix the emotion.


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

FrenchFry said:


> Neither of you are wrong but neither of you heard each other either. You are trying to keep the peace BUT you are going about it all wrong because you are trying to get there by pointing out the efficency of procedure while avoiding the emotion. She gets more angry because you aren't acknowledging the emotion and your procedure seems to be the cause of it.
> 
> To get to the settled state, you actually have to DEAL with the emotion. Not explain it away. Not smooth it over. Deal with it.
> 
> ...


This. Thank you for your response. If I was reading your response just 6 months ago I would have been real defensive and argue that efficiency is all that matters and emotion can be suppressed with intellect. However, after doing research, I know better to recognize the importance of emotional aspect. The fact is that even though I can't control how i feel about something, I can almost always control how i react to it. I think the fact that my wife is unable to suppress her urge to explode with pragmatic aspect of the issue factored in is what gets to me. I am not bothered that she's annoyed. I am bothered that she chooses to react in certain way about it, but then again the way people handle emotion is different I guess. I am only 5 years into it and probably have much to learn..


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DaveinOC said:


> The fact is that even though I can't control how i feel about something, *I can almost always control how i react to it.* I think the fact that my wife is unable to suppress her urge to explode with pragmatic aspect of the issue factored in is what gets to me. I am not bothered that she's annoyed. *I am bothered that she chooses to react in certain way about it,* but then again *the way people handle emotion is different I guess.* I am only 5 years into it and probably have much to learn..


Actually, you are most bothered that she doesn't choose to react in the same way as you. No, how every individual handles emotion differently is NOT an "I guess" proposition. We are all unique to some degree. You strike me as overly rational/reasoning. Your wife wears the emotional pants in your family. You both have a lot to learn about expressing yourselves so you can hear each other; just as FrenchFry said.

How about marriage counseling? Is that an option?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

DaveinOC said:


> As much as putting up with this kills me inside, me going off on her is going to drag on the fight further and I am unable to function. shes a type to get mad, fight and be just fine and dandy with other stuff, but while i m in that state of "cold war" I can't function cuz i am so bothered and stressed out. so people ask me if i can't live with / without sucking it up, why not just split, but me going my own way is going to bother me equally as much. so i feel kind of screwed. I have this almost OCD like quality with wanting to maintain that settled "normal" state, and to me personally, being divorced is not what I consider a "normal" state. It probably has to do with my upbringing where my hardcore christian mom putting divorce in the same severe catetgory as something like murder or adultery, so naturally I never ever consider divorce as an option and the fact that she's making it exteremely difficult for me to prevent things going that direction is what ultimately annoys the **** out of me.



You need to work hard a changing this thought process. Or she will just continue to treat you poorly because she knows it works.

And eventually she will divorce you anyways!


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Prodigal said:


> Actually, you are most bothered that she doesn't choose to react in the same way as you. No, how every individual handles emotion differently is NOT an "I guess" proposition. We are all unique to some degree. You strike me as overly rational/reasoning. Your wife wears the emotional pants in your family. You both have a lot to learn about expressing yourselves so you can hear each other; just as FrenchFry said.
> 
> How about marriage counseling? Is that an option?


Thank you for your response. Yea pretty much. I wish she would let me know that shes bothered without being emotional. I don't think I will agree with you on this. As much as I can accept that there are people out there where emotional fulfillment is prioritized before rationality, I don't see the point of emotion based arguments, period. emotion based arguments have no definitive conclusion other than one or both sides choosing to make certain "compromises" to appease one another. I am ok with compromising, but argument is unnecessary in my viewpoint. It could be done through discussion. Arguments don't have to emotionally damaging, it could be productive and be used as tool to improve situation. Of course I have a problem with the ways reacting if she doesnt choose a better method of alleviating the situation. you may say that, from her perspective, being that it is different from mine, she may find her reaction the best way to handle the situation, but is it really considering the likely outcome? Is it really because I am more rational/logic inclined that my way/her way are conflicted? I doubt it, because if I were to be hypothetically more emotional, I feel the argument would be much more damaging than me choosing to stay emotionless throughout our confrontation. Given that she can get the point across through rationality or emotional plea, what good does it do to choose to react the way she does? the only reason one acts angry is not for the sake of progress and reaching that cordial level of understanding, but serves simply to unleash their stress and feel better about it. that to me is a sign of immaturity if you can't process your anger internally. 

I get that people are different and handle things differently but there are always better way to resolve things in terms of how little damage incurred in the process. 

I considered marriage counseling and she doesn't want to.


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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

Has she always been like this? Or did something happen to trigger this? It sounds like there’s something deeper and her resentment and lack of respect for you on showing up in her vouchers and how she relates to you. 

You might need to have an honest conversation with her about how you feel. But you might need to see a marriage counselor together as it seems very unlikely she’ll take what you say positively. It’s sounds like both your love tanks are drained dry.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Basically you're a wimp. You are one of those men that are incapable of being alfa in a relationship with women. All you do is being a reactive man to the situation. Nothing else. You do not command.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Dave, I don't think you are a wimp. I think you're a decent man who has been very patient and tolerant, given your description of your wife's behaviour. Surely, you may have to pick up on your communication skills, as has been stated before; actually we all do. Validating, active listening etc, could mitigate the situations you find yourself in. Learn it. Try it. See what happens. Look up "boundaries", as described by, e.g., Mark Manson, to start with.

This being said, if you had tried everything in your power to change this ****heap you find yourself in -and that does NOT include catering to every little thing you think might please her...

This is no way of living. If everything you say is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, your wife is a seriously messed up puppy. Gets a kick out treating you the way she does, in a vain attempt to feel better herself. One day, if she acknowledges this, it may get better. A bit of serious counselling will be in order.

If you think you have the time and the inclination to continue to indure this, more power to you (if you haven't blown out your brains by then). I would't. At least not a long time.

Of course you don't like the idea of being divorced, none of us do (and neither do our mothers lol). But it might just be the only way to save the dignity and sanity you will have left. Think about it. And if she reckons that you are thinking about it and divorce is no longer an absolute taboo for you... in the best case, it could open her eyes a little. In the worst case, you will actually survive this.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Decent, patient, and tolerant men ( in other words, weak in the eyes of their woman) are the ones that get used, abuse, and direspected by women like the one the OP has.
Strong, assertive, confident men (without being a jerk) that do not tolerate shivt like this, gets a lot more respect and admiration by this type of woman, or anyone by the same token. OP should try it, see what happens.


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## 482 (Mar 14, 2017)

DaveinOC said:


> She's the type to get mad, fight and be just fine and dandy with other stuff, but while i m in that state of "cold war" I can't function cuz i am so bothered and stressed out.


I used to be this exact way. In all truthfulness I still struggle with this from time to time. Someone on TAM at one point asked me a question in one of my posts that has stuck with me it these cold wars "Why do you let her being mad effect you so much?" "Why do you let her being unhappy make you unhappy?" A simple question that should have been obvious to me but it was not. It forced me to think.

This stuck with me and I do think about it often in these times that feel like a battle. I have to ask myself if I have a valid reason to feel the way I do. If I am mad I am mad because I have a good reason to be, not because she is upset. She can be upset all she wants if I confront her about something that I need to talk about and she cops an attitude or picks a fight. When she does this I continue to let her know I am disappointed in the way she is handling this. Also I let her know that when she is ready to talk about it like an adult (without the yelling, escalation, and name calling) to let me know. If she refuses to do this then she cannot be surprised when it comes up agin and again. 

I used to do exactly what you are doing, pursue the angry beast to try and end the war. Not only is it as serious display of low value it does not work (at least it did not for me in the past). I have noticed a complete change in the relationship dynamic since I stopped doing this and continue to deliver the same message consistently. I can only hope our relationship will reach a point where she realizes that the whole process would be best avoided all together and just start out with the adult conversation, listening and understanding. Either way Im better equipped to deal with the beasts of the future if they show up.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What works well for me is predictive modeling. If you know someone well it's not difficult to predict behavior. I do it for a living . 

Look up the movie "Goodbye Lenin". That's worked out well...


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

DaveinOC said:


> * I don't see the point of emotion based arguments, period. *


Bolded is a blind spot.

Why does anyone do anything? A good chunk of the time, they do it because it works (for them.)



> I feel the argument would be much more damaging than me choosing to stay emotionless throughout our confrontation.


Why? People who are emotionally centered may fight more dramatically but--if within the bounds of respect--the fights can be faster and resolved quicker.



> the only reason one acts angry is not for the sake of progress and reaching that cordial level of understanding, but serves simply to unleash their stress and feel better about it. that to me is a sign of immaturity if you can't process your anger internally


I don't know about this and I don't think it's true. Like right now, you are here somewhat stewing and contemplating on how best to get your wife to understand better. Chances are she's done with it. Who has dealt with it better?

I'm a rational cold fighter. My natural inclination is to walk away, get my thoughts together and present them in the best way so that we can all agree that I definitely have thought this through and I'm right.

I've done this hundreds of times. Each time, it made the fight worse. Makes my husband madder and it goes on longer. There was a time where he said "Frenchfry, if you just ****ing hug me to let me know you still love me, I feel way better than this cold list ****." It was a revelation. It works. Yeah, we still fight but it's not this mind battle. It's getting the emotions out and then solving the problem instead of vice versa. It's not grudge fighting where he brings up everything wrong because the emotive source isn't being addressed and I'm shutting it down.

It's a relationship skill to learn.


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