# Married to a LEO and walking on eggshells! HELP!



## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

I have been with my husband for 3 years and we have a 21 month old son. H is a police officer, I have been a stay at home mom since I was 7 months pregnant. We have had a tumultuous relationship from the start. He is controlling, jealous, verbally abusive, he has called me the most horrible names! and to be quite honest I am also physically scared of him. He has absolutely zero trust and respect for me. I have left him numerous times, but I always end up coming back because of our son. Not directly, but I always get the "you are not committed to this relationship" speech when we get back. I am the horrible person for leaving him and not staying through good and bad and destroying the family. There are so many things that I could write to describe this relationship, I dont know if this is normal, but I dont even know where to start, its like my mind is so cluttered with confusion and garbage that I cant even think straight...I will give one example of what happens: I go visit my sister, I text him that I hope he doesnt get upset that I am going, my sister asks me to borrow a scale. By 9pm, I am already feeling anxious about heading back home, (H is working but doesnt like me to be out) my sister still needs the scale so I offer to leave it and pick it up another day (feeling guilty about it) Next day, H asks for the scale...I try to avoid the question first but end up telling him what happened...the rant starts...He works his butt off everyday to buy the things he has and everything has costs him so much and I am an ungrateful horrible person for just maintaining everybody elses needs...from that I went to me being the worst ***** ever, from all the women he has ever been with I am the filthiest *****...and on and on...it is horrible.
I considered myself to be a quite educated intelligent person, I have no idea how I ended up in this situation. I used to believe in myself, I had a small business of my own when I met him, I was 23 years old. Now, i am just this anxious insecure scared of the world person that has no idea what to do. I have a son, the most beautiful little person in the world that I love with every inch of my body. I feel horrible that I am not able to give him a stable happy family. I have relatives that offer me all the help I coudl possible ask for, I have where to go!!! but I cant convince myseld that that is what is best. Why do I stay? This man can be so charming, my son adores him, he calls for papa all the time, whenever he is not "possessed" he actually feels like the perfect husband, he calls me loving names, he opens doors for me, e.g. if my bike breaks in the middle of the road, he makes me sit on his lap and hold my bike with one hand while he drives his and gets us home. My son is very attached to both of us. We Co sleep with him, H encourages that, I nurse my son full time, H encourages that too. Even though he spends considerably less time with our son, our son adores his dad. I have tried to please this man in all I can to make him stay"happy". I am now depressed, and feel lost, I wish I could just give up sometimes, but I cannot afford that luxury because I am a mother that loves her child. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

You nurse your almost 2-year old full time? Meaning he eats no table food at all?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wean your son, get a job, and leave this man. You are doing your son no good by staying with him. It isnt healthy for him to see his father abuse his mother, and he will learn that THAT is how women are treated. Is that what you want for him? You have left him before, so you are aware that he is no good, you just need to realize that it doesnt matter how horrible he says you are. If you wont leave for your own sanity and happiness, then leave for your son.


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

No, he eats solids as well, but nurses as he wishes too. 
I have left Many times, i understand what he does isnt right. It is just so hard to accept the fact that he will not change and that my son will have divorced parent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## godswill (Jun 20, 2013)

I know how hard it might be , but I would say for sake of your son try one last time . Sometimes love can change the other person . Start to try it with talking , see what your husband likes or is more into . Lead this conversations in to spending more time with each other . Try to plan out some events where your son and he can get along more . Once he develops more feelings towards your son he will also be concerned about the marriage . Also you two spending even small moments together will bring him closer .


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> Wean your son, get a job, and leave this man. You are doing your son no good by staying with him. It isnt healthy for him to see his father abuse his mother, and he will learn that THAT is how women are treated. Is that what you want for him? You have left him before, so you are aware that he is no good, you just need to realize that it doesnt matter how horrible he says you are. If you wont leave for your own sanity and happiness, then leave for your son.


:iagree: and eventually it might turn physical!! You are being groomed for a life of being controlled!! get out now before 3 years turns to 10 years and as your son gets older he will most likely repeat what he see's.


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

godswill said:


> I know how hard it might be , but I would say for sake of your son try one last time . Sometimes love can change the other person . Start to try it with talking , see what your husband likes or is more into . Lead this conversations in to spending more time with each other . Try to plan out some events where your son and he can get along more . Once he develops more feelings towards your son he will also be concerned about the marriage . Also you two spending even small moments together will bring him closer .


Thank you all for the comments. Goodwill, H is always talking about how much he cares about the marriage, saying things like I and our son are everything to him, that without us he would have nothing, etc. He is also a loving father, he is naturally very affectionate and transfers that to our son whenever he is home. Of course he doesn't spend a lot of time with him an is probably not used to a toddlers many activities, so he relies to take care of him most of the time. We also talk a lot when he is in a good mood, he accepts his bad temper but also points out flaws in me (like he focuses more on what I do wrong instead of his horrible reactions, he doesn't see the gravity of his actions almost) I had asked him to see a doctor several times, and recently out of nowhere he came home with a med prescription to try to calm him down a little. Which makes me think he is trying, it is just odd that he decided to see a doctor so randomly...

Whenever he is in a good mood, we talk and I become really hopeful and I believe our life can be good. Until things like the scale incident come up and he loses it again 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

godswill said:


> I know how hard it might be , but I would say for sake of your son try one last time . Sometimes love can change the other person . Start to try it with talking , see what your husband likes or is more into . Lead this conversations in to spending more time with each other . Try to plan out some events where your son and he can get along more . Once he develops more feelings towards your son he will also be concerned about the marriage . Also you two spending even small moments together will bring him closer .


Sorry, but love alone does not change an abuser!


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

dblkman said:


> :iagree: and eventually it might turn physical!! You are being groomed for a life of being controlled!! get out now before 3 years turns to 10 years and as your son gets older he will most likely repeat what he see's.


Your words weigh so much on me...my mind tells me you are so right. I always tell myself that the longer I stay, the harder it will get for me to leave  I understand 100% that the way this relationship works is not healthy. But my heart fills my mind with what ifs...what if he does work out his struggles, what if I stand up more to him, what if I stop being such a weak person and make my family work. Oh, I am so confused...I also know that material things are not the most important, but everytime I have left, it breaks my heart to take my son out of his house, with his things, his toys, his space...H is kind of stingy towards me but fills our son with toys, lil quad bikes, Elmo stuff, a trampoline, all of which he loves etc etc...you get the picture...I know I could be capable of providing for myself eventually, but this is the space my son knows 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

All the "what ifs" in the world are not going to change anything, you can what if yourself to death! He isnt going to change. Your son is very, very young, and will adjust wherever you take him very quickly! Stop using him as your excuse to stay, and use him as your excuse to get out!


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

momtoanangel said:


> I know I could be capable of providing for myself eventually, but this is the space my son knows
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And eventually the only space your son will know is how to treat women exactly the way his father does. Abuse is a cycle and he's learning every day that it's more advantageous to be aligned with the parent with all the power. Then you can live with two abusers instead of just one.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

momtoanangel said:


> He is controlling, jealous, verbally abusive, he has called me the most horrible names! and to be quite honest I am also physically scared of him. He has absolutely zero trust and respect for me.


Mom, you are describing black-white thinking, wherein a person will categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") in just a few seconds based on only a minor comment or infraction. You also are describing verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, irrational jealousy (inability to trust), temper tantrums, and blame-shifting (i.e., always being "The Victim").

Significantly, those behaviors are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits all nine traits. Of course he does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether his BPD traits are at a moderate to strong level and are persistent. Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot any and all strong BPD traits that may be occurring. Although you are incapable of diagnosing his issues, you likely are very capable of simply spotting the warning signs for BPD if you take time to learn the nine red flags to look for.


> Whenever he is in a good mood... I become really hopeful until ...he loses it again


Mom, if drug abuse and a hormone change can be ruled out, the two major causes of strong mood changes are bipolar disorder and BPD. Having lived for 15 years with both a BPDer (my exW) and a bipolar sufferer (my foster son), I wrote a post describing 12 differences I've seen between bipolar and BPD behaviors. That post is at Confused. 

If the BPD traits described in that post sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of BPD traits at My list of hell!. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Mom.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Would you rather your son have a happy single mother? Or a married one who gets abused daily. 
My mum and dad fighted physically and it affected us a LOT.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

Thank you all for the comments...I KNOW all of you make sense. Somehow, while understanding this situation, it is so hard to make a decision. It is so hard to look at your own situation and see it as clear as outsiders see it. My mother is also going through a divorce process, she married the same ass TWICE! It makes me so mad to know how this man treated her and I am glad that she is divorcing him again, but she is sad and depressed, when I feel she should be glad...I wish I could see my situation as clear as I see my mother's. The H is a very smart man...he knows how to confuse my mind and talk himself out of any argument. I could not even imagine being able myself to manipulate a situation the way he does...its just an art you are born with I guess...THank you all for all the replies, I trust that I will be brave enough to do recognize what is best for my son.


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> All the "what ifs" in the world are not going to change anything, you can what if yourself to death! He isnt going to change. Your son is very, very young, and will adjust wherever you take him very quickly! Stop using him as your excuse to stay, and use him as your excuse to get out!





ubercoolpanda said:


> Would you rather your son have a happy single mother? Or a married one who gets abused daily.
> My mum and dad fighted physically and it affected us a LOT.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





COGypsy said:


> And eventually the only space your son will know is how to treat women exactly the way his father does. Abuse is a cycle and he's learning every day that it's more advantageous to be aligned with the parent with all the power. Then you can live with two abusers instead of just one.





Uptown said:


> Mom, you are describing black-white thinking, wherein a person will categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") in just a few seconds based on only a minor comment or infraction. You also are describing verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, irrational jealousy (inability to trust), temper tantrums, and blame-shifting (i.e., always being "The Victim").
> 
> Significantly, those behaviors are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits all nine traits. Of course he does. We all do.
> 
> ...


Uptown, Thank you sooo much for your feedback...I had been searching online for more information on what type of disorder my H has. I found many traits of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder in him, but I have to admit he is also very close to a BPD, the black and white thinking is soo him, one day I am the 8th wonder of the world, and a second later, triggered by anything I become a piece of Sh** and a ****. I am unsure if a person can suffer from both...
I have also tried to assess my own personality, and I have found out things I already knew, I have anxiety issues, I have a fear of separation, I am oversensitive to criticism, I am socially inhibited and tend to feel inadequate...I am a total case myself! but my issues make me a perfect target for someone like him.

I have been reading and learning non stop for the past 3 days. I dont even know to what purspose I am doing this, I Know it helps me understand, but to be honest, I also have a slight hope of finding a miracle cure to remove the jerk out of my H...

I am mentally exhausted, I wish I could just take a break and stop, this is eating my alive, I havent cleaned my house in days, I know its stupid bc I am the one home, but I feel like I am doing it in a revenge to him...the last time I returned home, it came out of him to say that if this time things didnt work out, he would be the one leaving the house, I mentioned that to him and of course he will not do that, his answer was that he wont work with me if I do things the way I do.

Any advice from your part is truly, GREATLY appreciated. 

Thank you.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

You are not only putting yourself in danger by staying but your son as well. Divorce isn't always a bad thing. There is actually worse things in the world than your son having divorced parents. Such as you or you son being seriously hurt or injured. Your husband hurting you to the point to wheere your son no longer has a mother. Your emotional and mental self esteem shot all to pieces, which I think that has already happened and thats part of why you stay. Death comes to mind as well, because he sounds like a loose cannon. 

Can you get your family or a close friend involved that can help you and your son?


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Mom, you are describing black-white thinking, wherein a person will categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") in just a few seconds based on only a minor comment or infraction. You also are describing verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, irrational jealousy (inability to trust), temper tantrums, and blame-shifting (i.e., always being "The Victim").
> 
> Significantly, those behaviors are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits all nine traits. Of course he does. We all do.
> 
> ...


Uptown, 
Thank you so much for this post. For the past 3-4 days, I have been reading everything I can about personality disorders. I am very inclined into thinking that my H has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but your description of BPD fits almost perfectly as well. I dont know if an individual can have both disorders. One of the main differences that you list in your list of hell is that with a narcissist you feel abused depressed and miserable...I DO...and with a BPDer you tend to feel crazy, like you dont understand what is going on I DO TOO! You also mention that narcissist are stable and or predictable, but I have read the contrary in most of the sites I have been to. I also read in an article that people with NPD tend to have the emotional stability o a 6 or 7 year old, which is what you also mention in your BPD list. I am really having a hard time understanding the difference, my H seems to have very strong traits from both lists.
I have also tried to asses my own personality and have found out things that somehow I already know. I seem to have tendency to anxious personality disorders, mainly avoidant and dependant (from one online assessment I took) and eventhough I dont quite feel I am 100% categorized in those areas, I have to accept some traits feel close to home. 
I think that by understanding what is going on, I can take a more determined decision, like I mentioned before, I have left several times just to get "hovered" back, (the longest I have been away is two months), but to be honest, I also have the slightest hope that I can also find a miracle cure to take the jerk out of my H. 
Do you believe these disorders can be treated? We have been to couples therapy in the past, but had been useless. I feel our therapist didnt quite understood what was going on, for example, In mentioning what we both would like to see change, he mentioned that I prepare his lunch for work everyday, I agreed and I did, I mentioned that I would like for him to be ok with me visiting my family maybe once a week (please consider that I am in a house by myself with my son almost everyday as my H works long shifts) and she said that was me going TOO FAST, to maybe ask for a lesser thing. SO therapy with her was not good. But also, he is taking meds now...doesnt that show he might be able to recognize there IS a problem with him? I was thinking of asking him to get a psychological evaluation if he wanted to keep this family...I dont know if he will go with it...would you recommend me mentioning that I believe he has a disorder? Also, are they capable of "cheating" on the evaluations to make it look like they are "stable" emotionally healthy individuals? If he agreed to it just to show me he is ok?

I am mentally exhausted, I am drained...I havent even cleaned my house in days (please dont judge) I know it is stupid bc I am the one who is home looking at the mess most of the time, but I feel that somehow I am doing it as a revenge to him. 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

confused.html#post1175425"]Confused[/URL]. 

If the BPD traits described in that post sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of BPD traits at My list of hell!. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Mom.[/QUOTE]

Uptown, 
Thank you so much for this post. For the past 3-4 days, I have been reading everything I can about personality disorders. I am very inclined into thinking that my H has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but your description of BPD fits almost perfectly as well. I dont know if an individual can have both disorders. One of the main differences that you list in your list of hell is that with a narcissist you feel abused depressed and miserable...I DO...and with a BPDer you tend to feel crazy, like you dont understand what is going on I DO TOO! You also mention that narcissist are stable and or predictable, but I have read the contrary in most of the sites I have been to. I also read in an article that people with NPD tend to have the emotional stability o a 6 or 7 year old, which is what you also mention in your BPD list. I am really having a hard time understanding the difference, my H seems to have very strong traits from both lists.
I have also tried to asses my own personality and have found out things that somehow I already know. I seem to have tendency to anxious personality disorders, mainly avoidant and dependant (from one online assessment I took) and eventhough I dont quite feel I am 100% categorized in those areas, I have to accept some traits feel close to home. 
I think that by understanding what is going on, I can take a more determined decision, like I mentioned before, I have left several times just to get "hovered" back, (the longest I have been away is two months), but to be honest, I also have the slightest hope that I can also find a miracle cure to take the jerk out of my H. 
Do you believe these disorders can be treated? We have been to couples therapy in the past, but had been useless. I feel our therapist didnt quite understood what was going on, for example, In mentioning what we both would like to see change, he mentioned that I prepare his lunch for work everyday, I agreed and I did, I mentioned that I would like for him to be ok with me visiting my family maybe once a week (please consider that I am in a house by myself with my son almost everyday as my H works long shifts) and she said that was me going TOO FAST, to maybe ask for a lesser thing. SO therapy with her was not good. But also, he is taking meds now...doesnt that show he might be able to recognize there IS a problem with him? I was thinking of asking him to get a psychological evaluation if he wanted to keep this family...I dont know if he will go with it...would you recommend me mentioning that I believe he has a disorder? Also, are they capable of "cheating" on the evaluations to make it look like they are "stable" emotionally healthy individuals? If he agreed to it just to show me he is ok?

I am mentally exhausted, I am drained...I havent even cleaned my house in days (please dont judge) I know it is stupid bc I am the one who is home looking at the mess most of the time, but I feel that somehow I am doing it as a revenge to him. 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## NikkiGinger (Jan 21, 2013)

He sounds like my H, but worse. Break the cycle ladybug, otherwise you are teaching your child that it is ok. Start reporting him when he freaks out on you. It may be uncomfortable and he will say things to make you feel like crap about yourself, but you need out and get away from him. Dont let him manipulate and beat you down any longer.


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## wifeandmummy (Aug 20, 2012)

Mom just wanted to say that you can do this. ..your son needs you to be strong. I have three small children and H and I are separated of course its hard on the little ones but your son deserves so much more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

Thank you all for the responses, I am very thankful sites like this one exist. I apologize for the double posts, I thought my replies were not being posted so I tried reposting them. I am still at the house, haven't made the decision to leave yet, I am learning a lot about the BPD which is what I believe my h has, and that is giving me somewhat more confidence. I am praying a lot too, to get some clarity, this can be so confusing...thank you all again for taking the time to support a complete stranger! Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Being married to a cop is no walk in the park for anyone. One of our problems is we do tend to be controlling, "type A" personalities (generally) and it's tough to take off the job persona and put on the home persona. We spot even slight hints of deception a mile away. We find it hard to get excited about a "problem" unless it involves gunfire, lots of blood, broken bones, etc. We are used to hearing drama all day and fixing people's problems. We aren't good at just listening sympathetically. We can be a pain in the a$$ and our marriage success rate is pretty shameful. Maybe he's just a natural pr!ck or maybe he hasn't learned to balance the job with home. They don't teach that in academy but they should. There are marriage counseling resources out there specifically for cop marriages. He might be more inclined to listen to a cop than to some pointy-headed suit that doesn't have a clue what your husband does every day (or night). If things could be repaired, it'd be a shame not to.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

momtoanangel said:


> I am very inclined into thinking that my H has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but your description of BPD fits almost perfectly as well. I dont know if an individual can have both disorders.


Yes, he can. Indeed, most people who have one full-blown PD also have one or two others as well. As to those having BPD, a recent study (pub. 2008) found that about 30% of BPDers also have NPD. Remember, having two PDs is not the same as having two different diseases. PDs are not diseases. Rather, they are only "syndromes," i.e., groups of behaviors that often are seen as occurring together. In that regard, BPD tends to overlap some of the traits of several other PDs. The instability, however, is the key trait of BPD, not any other PD.


> You also mention that narcissist are stable and or predictable, but I have read the contrary in most of the sites I have been to.


Emotional instability is the key hallmark of BPD, setting it apart from NPD and all other PDs. Indeed, a large segment of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for two decades to change its name to "Emotion Regulation Disorder" because instability is its key feature. This is why most of the 9 BPD traits listed in the diagnostic manual refer to some type of instability. One such trait, for example, is "a pattern of *unstable* and intense personal relationships." Another is "*unstable* self image." A third is "affective *instability*." In contrast, NONE of the 8 traits listed for NPD in the diagnostic manual ever mentions instability.

But, of course, some narcissists actually are unstable. And some of them have blond hair and some speak French. But none of those traits are characteristic of NPD and thus are not listed as an NPD trait.


> I am really having a hard time understanding the difference, my H seems to have very strong traits from both lists.


Regardless of whether he has BPD or NPD, there is very little chance he will improve substantially in the next ten or twenty years. NPD is generally considered to be untreatable. Although BPD is treatable, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength needed to take advantage of the many excellent treatment programs available. 

Hence, for your purpose of deciding whether to stay with him, being married to a full blown narcissist would mean he has never been capable of loving you. In contrast, a full blown BPDer is capable of loving you (sporadically) -- but only in an immature fashion if he has not had at least several years of intensive treatment. Moreover, because BPDers tend to be impulsive and unstable and do black-white thinking, they typically are more dangerous than NPDers when they split you black.


> I seem to have tendency to anxious personality disorders, mainly avoidant and dependant (from one online assessment I took) and even though I dont quite feel I am 100% categorized in those areas, I have to accept some traits feel close to home.


Every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the PD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD, NPD, and the other PDs are called "spectrum disorders," which means that we all exhibit the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H has the traits. Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits most of them at a strong and persistent level.


> Do you believe these disorders can be treated?


As I said above, "yes" for BPD but "no" for NPD. Even with the BPDers, however, it is rare to find one who is willing to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.


> We have been to couples therapy in the past, but had been useless.


That was my experience too -- when taking my BPDer exW to three MCs. It was a complete waste of time. If your H has strong traits of BPD or NPD, his issues are far more serious than a simple lack of communication skills.


> He is taking meds now...doesnt that show he might be able to recognize there IS a problem with him?


Perhaps, but that depends heavily on what the medication is for. With BPD and NPD, for example, medication cannot make a dent in the disorder. Psychiatrists prescribe meds in these cases only because the BPDer and NPDers typically also have a co-occurring clinical disorder such as anxiety, depression, or bipolar -- all of which can be treated with medication. Hence, just because a man is willing to take meds for his depression or anxiety does not mean he also is willing to confront and work on his BPD or NPD issues.


> Would you recommend me mentioning that I believe he has a disorder?


No. As an initial matter, you don't know he "has a disorder." Rather, you are only capable of knowing he "has strong traits of a disorder." There is a big difference between spotting the warning symptoms (i.e., the strong occurrences of traits) and rendering a diagnosis.

Moreover, even if you are careful to say you suspect he has "strong BPD or NPD traits," he almost certainly will project that accusation right back onto you. Because the projection works entirely at the subconscious level, he will be totally convinced that YOU are the one with the strong traits.

That, at least, is the advice I give everyone. It is NOT what I chose to do. Instead, I gave my exW a parting gift in the form of a BPD book that I slipped into a box of her belongings. That was six years ago and, of course, she still believes to this day that I have full-blown BPD.


> Also, are they capable of "cheating" on the evaluations to make it look like they are "stable" emotionally healthy individuals?


On the written personality evaluations? I suppose so but I really don't know how well the test is designed. As to weekly sessions with a therapist, I can tell you that it is a cake walk for a BPDer to put on a 50-minute show once a week. It therefore can take a therapist a year or two to see the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long. 

BPDers tend to be excellent actors because -- having only a fractured, weak sense of self identity -- they have been acting since early childhood as a way of fitting in and being loved. It is hard for them to do otherwise because they do not have a strong ego to guide them and ground them.


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Yes, he can. Indeed, most people who have one full-blown PD also have one or two others as well. As to those having BPD, a recent study (pub. 2008) found that about 30% of BPDers also have NPD. Remember, having two PDs is not the same as having two different diseases. PDs are not diseases. Rather, they are only "syndromes," i.e., groups of behaviors that often are seen as occurring together. In that regard, BPD tends to overlap some of the traits of several other PDs. The instability, however, is the key trait of BPD, not any other PD.Emotional instability is the key hallmark of BPD, setting it apart from NPD and all other PDs. Indeed, a large segment of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for two decades to change its name to "Emotion Regulation Disorder" because instability is its key feature. This is why most of the 9 BPD traits listed in the diagnostic manual refer to some type of instability. One such trait, for example, is "a pattern of *unstable* and intense personal relationships." Another is "*unstable* self image." A third is "affective *instability*." In contrast, NONE of the 8 traits listed for NPD in the diagnostic manual ever mentions instability.
> 
> But, of course, some narcissists actually are unstable. And some of them have blond hair and some speak French. But none of those traits are characteristic of NPD and thus are not listed as an NPD trait.Regardless of whether he has BPD or NPD, there is very little chance he will improve substantially in the next ten or twenty years. NPD is generally considered to be untreatable. Although BPD is treatable, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength needed to take advantage of the many excellent treatment programs available.
> 
> ...


Uptown, thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my posts. I have kept on reading a lot of information online and purchased two books on BPD. As you say, I am incapable of rendering a diagnosis, but the more I learn, the more I see my H portrayed in BPD traits, it is as if I am reading a book based on him. I know understand that BPD can be narcissistic. I believe he is a higher functioning BPD. He is not self harming or suicidal, to outsiders, he is outgoing, caring, charismatic, etc... but to us close to him its a different story sometimes. I even recall a conversation I had with his "best friend" a few months ago and he kept on telling me it was like my husband was always trying to push us people that care about him away, trying to make you "give up on him". My husband has cleared out told me several times, that he needs someone that will be with him "no matter what" and that he cant trust me because of my lack of "commitment to the relationship".
He is in a period of estrangement from his older brother, whom honestly I doubt has been as horrible as my H sometimes tells me. ( he rarely talks to me about it) He has always complained about his mother being absent in his childhood because she was always more concerned at her work, and I can go on with the list. 

Was your wife ever diagnosed? the more I read, the helpless I feel...This man has put me through some very difficult times, if he was indeed BPD, that atleast gives me an explanation...but it doesnt matter how much I understand if he doesnt get on board and tries to change. Also, I would like to mention that I have now taken several sanity-personality online tests myself, just to rule out what i might not be seeing in myself, and eventhough i do have anxiety, depression symptoms, non have pointed out any disorders myself...and I do this because this can be so darn confusing and mind bugging! 

I feel like giving it a try and talking to him about this, I am almost certain about what the outcome will be, but at least I think it will make me feel better that I tried. I am in the point where I think I need to either start doing something inmediately for my own sanity, or pack my things and my son. Which I really dont want to do!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

momtoanangel said:


> The more I see my H portrayed in BPD traits, it is as if I am reading a book based on him.


Mom, I had the very same experience when reading my first book on BPD. It felt as though I was reading a biography of my exW's lifetime experiences.


> Was your wife ever diagnosed?


No, not really. As I noted, therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer -- much less her spouse -- the name of her disorder. Although I took my exW to six different psychologists for weekly visits throughout 15 years, none of them told me she had BPD. The closest I got to such a diagnosis was from the very last psych that my exW saw. She was treated by that psych for five years, during which time the psych never once would tell me what my spouse was suffering from.

Whenever I would ask, the psych would simply say "I don't believe labels are useful." Well, after I got out of jail -- after being arrested on a bogus charge filed by my exW -- I found information on the Internet that convinced me my exW exhibited all nine BPD traits at a very strong level (and she had even been sexually abused by her own father for years). 

Hence, at my last meeting with my W's psych, I was angry and insisted on being told what disorder I had been paying for over the past five years. The psych grudgingly conceded that my spouse suffered from a "thought disorder," which of course is exactly what BPD is.


> The more I read, the more helpless I feel.


Well, if your H does have strong BPD traits, you likely are helpless when it comes to helping HIM. Because the healing must occur from within, you cannot assist him with that process -- particularly when he is refusing to confront his issues and learn how to manage them.

When it comes to helping _yourself_, however, your reading should be teaching you ways in which you can take control of your life and start meeting your own needs and those of your young son. In that way, reading will be empowering because it will help you understand how you contributed to the toxicity in your relationship (i.e., your enabling behavior that allows a grown man to continue behaving like a spoiled four year old -- and keep GETTING AWAY WITH IT).


> It doesnt matter how much I understand if he doesnt get on board and tries to change.


Actually, if he has strong BPD traits, your understanding the situation matters A LOT, regardless of whether he ever tries to change or not. One reason is that BPD is believed to be caused partly (and sometimes perhaps entirely) by genetics. This means that, if your H is a BPDer, there is some risk he will pass it on to your son (through genetics or abusive behavior). It therefore is important to know what you and your son are dealing with.

Another reason is that, even if you do decide to leave your H, you are at some risk of running right into the arms of another man just like him -- if you don't take the time to learn what warning signs to look for. Significantly, BPDer are very VERY easy for us caregivers to fall in love with. They come on strong, make us feel like rescuers, give us great sex at the beginning, and produce lots of fireworks within the first two weeks. What's not to like about them apples?

A third reason is that, even if you do divorce, you will be sharing joint custody of your son. It therefore is important to know just what type of behavior your son is going to be exposed to when spending half of his time with Dad for the next 16 years.


> I feel like giving it a try and talking to him about this, I am almost certain about what the outcome will be, but at least I think it will make me feel better that I tried.


I figured that you would try to explain it to him. We excessive caregivers are such "fixers" that we are loath to leave any stone unturned. As I said, I knew it was foolish to tell my exW but I did it anyway because it made me feel better to think that I had tried everything. 

Yet, if your H is as explosive as you've described, please think twice before letting him know in advance that you are leaving -- if you ever decide to take that course of action. If he has strong BPD traits, he has a great fear of abandonment and is emotionally unstable. His behavior therefore is unpredictable when his worst fear is being realized.


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## momtoanangel (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks to everyone that responded to my threads. I had left for some time, but just wanted to update that I decided to leave my husband and my son and I are now staying at my mothers house. I cant say that I am happy but I believe this is what I had to do. I have been out for almost 3 weeks, and we have seen each other on several occasions. His moods have changed from "lets work this out", to "go enjoy your time with your lovers"...so that only reinforces my decision. He still behaves good when he is with our son, and I only wish and hope that sometime in the future, we can have healthy communication and understanding for our sons benefit. 

Thank you all for the support and I wish you all the best as well.

God bless.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Congratulations on finding your strength!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Mom, I wish the best for you and your family.


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