# Question about depression and women and medication



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

I have seen countless times mentioned on these forums that a woman is on some medication, usually for depression or bipolar issues and now something new to me called BPD.

I am concerned at the frequency of this.

Does the history of medicine reflect this kind of frequency of medication for depression among women as consistent, or is this something relatively new?

Also, are men also on this kind of medication in a similar frequency and is it just not as often mentioned?


----------



## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

I've lived with a wife with depression and possible BPD for over twenty years, so I've done my share of research. Others might have an official answer, but I'll mention what I've been told by therapists and my own research. Some researchers claim it is on the rise, but most assume that society's acceptance is what's on the rise. 

For instance, traditional religious people tend to see depression as a flaw, or a spiritual weakness. Not many would admit to it. And there were also just assumptions that all such behaviors were in the spectrum of normal, so just deal with it. Maybe more likely is that our society in general was just less tolerant. People who were depressed had to 'put on a happy face'.

I am religious, but most steer clear from me because they think of me as an intellectual. My wife feels so ashamed that she would never dream of discussing it with her pastor, and if she did he would likely tell her just to pray and not give in to the weakness.

The reason I suspect BPD is my wife's self-hatred. She would love to die young, was severly bulemic in our early years, and seems to be able to create things I did to hurt her in her mind.

Personally, I always viewed this as a handicap, and never dreamed of asking myself if it was fair to me until recently. My doctor thought I had a terminal illness and I went through a short depression. My wife became somewhat cruel in her words and when I pressed, she admitted that she found me 'disgusting'. I can't let it go because I've been her pillar for 22 years.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm probably going to get flamed here, but I will speak out. I owned a pharmacy in a poor area for more than 10 years. After what I saw, I have very little use for anti-depressants and anti-psychotics drugs. Most people do not get correctly diagnosed. Those drugs really made me a good living though.

We had two general practitioners in town who believed EVERY female was either depressed or suffered from BPD. As a result, at least 80% of their female patients were taking Cymbalta, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac, Abilify, Wellbutrin, Zypexa, Seroquel, Celexa, and/or Zoloft. Then in addition, they were given Xanax or Valium to take as needed. I NEVER saw any of these women improve--either come off the medication or reduce the medication. Their dosage was either increased or always switching medication. Futhermore, it was next to impossible to have a coherent, rational conversation with them. I can only imagine what home life was like!

As for men on this type of medication--not near as many. And many of those seemed to be because of anger issues. Probably because they were living with one of the above women!

I'm even more convinced now that many issues are "soul" issues. Unfortunately, it is much easier in our society to take a magic pill than to work with a competent therapist to get to the root of the problem. I realize there are conditions where medications of this nature are necessary, but they should be prescribed by competent psychiatrist.

For the record, my estranged husband used to say I was psychotic or bi-polar. Nope, I was just fed up with the crap. There were issues which had to be resolved. Even now, many people see me living in "hell"--just look at my posts. Things are,indeed, bad but I have many blessings too. I have managed to look past this physical world. My minister and therapist keep telling me I inspire them. And guess what? I have accomplished all of this because I am at peace with myself--and NO drugs are involved. Sometimes it is just a matter of going within one's self and resolving issues.


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

827Aug said:


> Unfortunately, it is much easier in our society to take a magic pill than to work with a competent therapist to get to the root of the problem. I realize there are conditions where medications of this nature are necessary


:iagree:

We have a child that was diagnosed with ADHD a few years back. The immediate recommendation by the testing therapist and the school administration was medications. My wife and I considered that a last resort. "Behavior out of a bottle" was not what was best for him long run. We opted for counseling, getting him involved in structured athletic lessons and to work on our own patience and understanding. He markedly improved with time and is doing great now. Socially, academically and athletically. The results were longer in coming but will be longer lasting in life as far as we are concerned.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree: with both of the above.

I remember as a child in the 60's there were many women who were prescribed valium...I don't think it was meant to be taken with scotch on the rocks, but I think c0cktail parties were also the norm...so while I think there are many new drugs on the market, the underlying approach has been around for a while.

My parents had longevity on both sides of the family, no family history of any disease, etc. so they were both very reluctant to take or give us kids any types of medication...and I am the same way with myself and my own kids unless it becomes absolutely necessary. 

Medication for depression/anxiety is addictive and based on some of the commercials, so many side effects that it is beyond me that anyone would consider this for situational depression (going through a rough time due to divorce, death in the family, etc.)


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

takris thank you for this reply.

I am understanding that in the brain there are potentials for chemical imbalance, so for sure this has a potential to be treated with medication and with it I have no argument.

As for the religion aspect, to pray, well I am often wondering at this very contrast between belief and medical science. 

I do not see religious people even more or less prone to the same cause and effects as anyone else for physical illness or treatments, but thank you for this perpective.

As for your struggles with your wife's hurtful words to you, I am hoping you are finding the healing you need.




takris said:


> I've lived with a wife with depression and possible BPD for over twenty years, so I've done my share of research. Others might have an official answer, but I'll mention what I've been told by therapists and my own research. Some researchers claim it is on the rise, but most assume that society's acceptance is what's on the rise.
> 
> For instance, traditional religious people tend to see depression as a flaw, or a spiritual weakness. Not many would admit to it. And there were also just assumptions that all such behaviors were in the spectrum of normal, so just deal with it. Maybe more likely is that our society in general was just less tolerant. People who were depressed had to 'put on a happy face'.
> 
> ...


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

827Aug thank you.

Your response is what I was hoping not to hear, but that I am suspicious of, the temptation to medicate when other options are available or even whether medication is necessary, either from seeking an easy solution or to make money.

And your last paragraph, that I am happy to see you type out, that your response was due to the actions and behaviors present in the relationship and not automatically some need to be medicated. Thank you for that.




827Aug said:


> I'm probably going to get flamed here, but I will speak out. I owned a pharmacy in a poor area for more than 10 years. After what I saw, I have very little use for anti-depressants and anti-psychotics drugs. Most people do not get correctly diagnosed. Those drugs really made me a good living though.
> 
> We had two general practitioners in town who believed EVERY female was either depressed or suffered from BPD. As a result, at least 80% of their female patients were taking Cymbalta, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac, Abilify, Wellbutrin, Zypexa, Seroquel, Celexa, and/or Zoloft. Then in addition, they were given Xanax or Valium to take as needed. I NEVER saw any of these women improve--either come off the medication or reduce the medication. Their dosage was either increased or always switching medication. Futhermore, it was next to impossible to have a coherent, rational conversation with them. I can only imagine what home life was like!
> 
> ...


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Amplexor, thank you for your reply.

My wife and myself have often discussed and agreed exactly this same thing had it come up for any of our children.

I am happy to hear it is going well for your son! 




Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> We have a child that was diagnosed with ADHD a few years back. The immediate recommendation by the testing therapist and the school administration was medications. My wife and I considered that a last resort. "Behavior out of a bottle" was not what was best for him long run. We opted for counseling, getting him involved in structured athletic lessons and to work on our own patience and understanding. He markedly improved with time and is doing great now. Socially, academically and athletically. The results were longer in coming but will be longer lasting in life as far as we are concerned.


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

swedish, thank you for this reply.

From my family I saw the example of avoiding medication unless only necessary, my father even at his age to this day only takes what he is only absolutely needing for physical issues as they arise.

And I understand your point about the side effects. It is a grim entertainment sometimes to see these side effects advertised that seem so much worse than the ailment itself. :scratchhead:




swedish said:


> :iagree: with both of the above.
> 
> I remember as a child in the 60's there were many women who were prescribed valium...I don't think it was meant to be taken with scotch on the rocks, but I think c0cktail parties were also the norm...so while I think there are many new drugs on the market, the underlying approach has been around for a while.
> 
> ...


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

In my experiences, I am aware of the nature of domestication of wild animals, to achieve over generations some traits above others, which we know from evolutionary biology it is only within the ability of breeding to select traits already present in the animal's makeup.

So basically this, to domesticate an animal as far as temperment and certain physical qualities, to retain characteristics from the animals infantile stages of gentleness and meekness and subordination, and to diminish mature characteristics such as independence and aggression and dominance.

So over time in this same way, from the wolf there is a dog, from a lynx there is a house cat, from the auroch there is the cow, from the wild boar there is a pig, and so on etc etc. 

And in temperment, in the mind of the domesticated animal it must retain the tendancy to be gentle and meek and submissive, in order for such an animal to function with measured contentment and success in a life of servitude and dependance in human ownership.

And as such, why it is difficult to keep most wild animals in captivity without them developing angst and unhealthy aggression, and how many animals will only cope in captivity under heavy medication and sedation, such as dolphins and many zoo animals. 

So it is some trepidation I am wondering, in our modern day and age, if we as humans are not overly domesticating ourselves to the point of creating in ourselves such angst and miscontentment, in our crowded world of enclosed spaces and cubicles and compact cars and, most importantly and in the scope of this forum, our sexual intimate relationships?

The restlessness that I see on this very forum, and the themes I am seeing reoccuring, and noticing the consistent mention of medication, I am wondering on this issue.

Again, thank you for your responses.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> From my family I saw the example of avoiding medication unless only necessary, my father even at his age to this day only takes what he is only absolutely needing for physical issues as they arise.


I had to chuckle at this as I thought my dad was unique...but at 86 he takes no medication and when he had a bad headache I had to read the instructions on the bottle for dosage (recommened take 2) and he instead split 1 in half!


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting how that generation seems so suspicious of medication.

My father will not take anything without studying the bottle and determining even after much thought whether he will be better with or without the medication.

QUite a contrast to many in my own generation to swallow some pills without much thought at all!





swedish said:


> I had to chuckle at this as I thought my dad was unique...but at 86 he takes no medication and when he had a bad headache I had to read the instructions on the bottle for dosage (recommened take 2) and he instead split 1 in half!


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I guess that generation didn't have fancy television and magazine ads to convince them they needed the latest and greatest medications. My parents are also in their late 80s and are the same way. We had to be pretty sick to see a doctor and get medications. I guess that's why I was never tempted by our inventory! Many of the older pharmacists who worked in our store had a slogan and we all adhered to it. They all said, "Pills are for selling, not taking."


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

This is mature conversation. Sorry, I am in. 
I like all the posts above. 
In my hometown, few people get sick and no people go to a doctor just because they are angry or unhappy. 
It is so easy for people to excuse their bad behavior with depression now. Modern people have learned to express themselves, they tell everybody that they are unhappy because they are depressed. They don't want to admit that they want too much from their life. They don't want to admit that they are not happy with what they have achieved. They don't want to accept that they are not the way they want to be. They are depressed, they sit there all day feeling sorry for themselves, or they yell at their husbands for not giving what they want. 

I had been unhappy for a while. I thought depression was a new thing, I asked my husband if I was depressed, I asked my husband if I should see a doctor and take medicine and then I would be happy right away. My husband told me that I was having emotional problems and I had to learn to understand myself and seek wisdom. And that's what I did. 

Medication can only help us for a short term, and if we stop, problems come back again. In order for us to achieve peace, we have to find another way!!!


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

greenpearl said:


> This is mature conversation. Sorry, I am in.
> I like all the posts above.
> In my hometown, few people get sick and no people go to a doctor just because they are angry or unhappy.
> It is so easy for people to excuse their bad behavior with depression now. Modern people have learned to express themselves, they tell everybody that they are unhappy because they are depressed. They don't want to admit that they want too much from their life. They don't want to admit that they are not happy with what they have achieved. They don't want to accept that they are not the way they want to be. They are depressed, they sit there all day feeling sorry for themselves, or they yell at their husbands for not giving what they want.
> ...


I'm glad you did join in; it gives us Westerners a different cultural perspective. That's where I see the depression problem as well. I see depression as a "soul" issue and that we must each go within ourselves to find the problem. I seem to do a lot of reading in this area now. At least for me, the puzzle pieces are beginning to fit.


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

827Aug said:


> I'm glad you did join in; it gives us Westerners a different cultural perspective. That's where I see the depression problem as well. I see depression as a "soul" issue and that we must each go within ourselves to find the problem. I seem to do a lot of reading in this area now. At least for me, the puzzle pieces are beginning to fit.


I 100% agree with your opinion. 

I used to know a woman. She is Taiwanese, immigrated to New Zealand with her family. She used to be a very smart student in class, graduated from the best school in Taiwan. Hurt by a man who cheated on her. Didn't become anybody important. Her classmates are doctors or successful people. She isn't married to anybody successful. Her husband is ten years older than her, a poor English in Taiwan. On, my, she had been depressed for many years. I don't know her situation now. It was a lot of pain to see her before, just sat there seeking everybody's sympathy. People became sick of her. She was taking medicine, the medicine only made her fat instead of helping her become a happy woman. Her husband was really frustrated with her. We all think he can have a much better life without her. She ruined his life. What is her real problem? She can't take the fact that she is nobody in life. 

If people all want to be important and feel that they have to be better than others, that is going to put them into a very depressed situation. 

I had been the same. I wanted to think that I was important. I wanted to feel that I was better than all the others among my co-workers. It put me into a life competing with people constantly. Until one day I read this scripture, always view others superior to you, no matter who they are. Everybody is important. That really put me to think. I can't have an attitude like I used to have. Now I always view others better than me and that puts me into a very peaceful mind. I just live my own life, I don't care if I am important or not. Now I am a much happier person. 

I am happy not because of my husband. I wasn't happy not because of my husband. I had to work on my personality. 

I think religion can help us a lot to achieve peace! I read the Bible. I read stories about wisdom. I learn a lot. Education of life is important, but a lot of people just let their own personality run their life. They don't seek wisdom. They don't want people to tell them that they are wrong. 

Want more happy people in this world! I want to be happy. This is my goal. And I know I have to achieve it myself.

SOUL Yes!!!!


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> Interesting how that generation seems so suspicious of medication.
> 
> My father will not take anything without studying the bottle and determining even after much thought whether he will be better with or without the medication.
> 
> QUite a contrast to many in my own generation to swallow some pills without much thought at all!


I find it more interesting that people put complete faith in medications Today it's more about marketing than medicine. It used to be that you went to the doctor with an ailment and he made a diagnosis. Now we watch or read pharmaceutical commercials, self diagnose then see the doctor with predetermined solution. Pop a pill. I know the pharmaceutical companies have made great strides and developed excellent treatments for many conditions. But they have intentionally marketed to the masses that you can fix just about anything with a pill. And we buy into it. 


p.s. I had to chuckle at Swede's father cutting the pill in half. I don't know if that was a trust issue or of growing up in the great depression. My dad is about the same way and just about as tight when it comes to some things.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> QUite a contrast to many in my own generation to swallow some pills without much thought at all!


Even more disturbing is the younger generation...my ex's stepson went to a skittles party...I guess they grab prescription drugs from home, toss them in a pile and take them. He overdoesed and it almost killed him. My eldest son tried to talk to him and he said 'Well, it's medicine so I figured it couldn't hurt me'...scary.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

It does get scary. I have seen some bad results from those "skittles parties". All too often someone tosses a serious diabetic or blood pressure pill into the mix. It always amazed me how many calls we took at the pharmacy to identify a tablet. The calls usually began with, "I found a strange tablet in my son/daughters pocket....." The frustrated parent wanted to know what the tablet was and what it was used for. The children seem willing to take anything a friend gives them now.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

827Aug said:


> I realize there are conditions where medications of this nature are necessary, but they should be prescribed by competent psychiatrist.


I believe that these medicines are good, but they should primarily be used as short term solutions - kind of to stop the emotional bleeding and allow a person to gather their strength during a difficult time.

What amazes me - as you touched upon - is that primary care physicians prescribe much of these medications. I would think that only a psychiatrist - a specialist - would be able to dispense these medications. But that's just not the case.

And actually, my wife's OB/GYN gave her Xanax after the birth of our 2nd child due to some post-partum depression issues.


----------

