# Do I distrust her?



## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

My girlfriend and I recently took a drive into town and parked the car in a Pay&Display car park. It was after 1800 so I thought we may not have to pay to park. I asked my girlfriend as we passed a sign and she said that we did not have to pay. However... as I parked the car I saw some Police hovering around another car and thought they might be fining the car.

So to be sure, because I was scared of getting a ticket, I had a look at the Pay&Display machine as walked past it. It confirmed that after 1800 was free. I commented to my girlfriend, something like "ah yes, we're okay. It's free after 1800".

At the time, she didn't make a comment, but now a couple of days later she has told me that I do not trust her. She gave the car park incident as an example. Because I checked the machine and did not trust her statement, it is an example that I do not trust her in the relationship in general supposedly.

In some ways she's right! I mean... this does mean I did not trust her. But in others... well... I... what..the...hell! is it really that big an issue? Is it really a huge problem? If the roles were reversed I'd be fine with her double checking as she doesn't want to get a fine! 

What do you think? Feedback very welcome...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Why are you still doing this to yourself? You are with a massive control freak.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't know your background, but getting defensive usually is not helpful. How about listening to her reasons for thinking you don't trust her, and responding honestly to her? 

Trust usually has to be earned by both parties. If you don't trust her, she may need to work harder to earn your trust. If the issue is in you, she may need to ask herself if she will ever be able to earn your trust.


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@jld In this case, I did not get defensive with her when she mentioned the car park incident as an example of lack of trust. I actually agreed with her and apologised for my breach of trust. I expressed a desire to work on this and increase trust in our relationship. 
After discussing it with her, I'm left with the feeling that I am trying to fix something in myself that doesn't need fixing. What I mean is... if I had a friend who wanted to make sure his car was safe, even though I said I saw him lock it, I would not be offended if he "double checked". I would not conclude that my friend distrusted me. Hence I'm wondering if what I did (double checking) is really an example of distrust toward her.
@NobodySpecial: I am asking myself the same question. As always, I seem to a) think I am broken/problematic b) hope that things will get better c) have only this channel to get feedback. I need a therapist.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

modernknight said:


> @jld In this case, I did not get defensive with her when she mentioned the car park incident as an example of lack of trust. I actually agreed with her and apologised for my breach of trust. I expressed a desire to work on this and increase trust in our relationship.
> After discussing it with her, I'm left with the feeling that I am trying to fix something in myself that doesn't need fixing. What I mean is... if I had a friend who wanted to make sure his car was safe, even though I said I saw him lock it, I would not be offended if he "double checked". I would not conclude that my friend distrusted me. Hence I'm wondering if what I did (double checking) is really an example of distrust toward her.
> 
> @NobodySpecial: I am asking myself the same question. As always, I seem to a) think I am broken/problematic b) hope that things will get better c) have only this channel to get feedback. *I need a therapist.*


Good on you for recognizing this. S/he can help you root your self esteem.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

I don't think double checking to make sure you didn't have to pay the meter is a sign of total distrust in the relationship. In a situation that you just described, I would've done the same thing for my own peace of mind. It's a bit absurd to declare that your SO doesn't trust you at all because of this.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

The good news here is that she is just a GF and not a spouse. She is telling you who she really is...and you should listen! !! If her beating you down over something like this (she gave it as an example) is causing this much concern for you, time to fly solo for a awhile. Why waste your time second-guessing EVERY decision you make when she's around? Why waste your time racking your brain in all you do to pass her 'trust barometer'? This is going to drive you nuckin futs!

I strongly suspect that there are many many many women out there who would not make an issue of verifying the law and being a responsible human. Many who won't play the "I told you so" game when they, in their mind, are more correct than you. Save yourself some stress guy!


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Unless there are other more significant instances you can think of. I'd let it go and tell her that you were worried the car would get ticketed or worse yet towed and wanted to double check for your own peace of mind. 
Re'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If this is a one time thing then she's off base.

But it sounds like this type just one example out of many. So she might be hyper sensitive now. What other times have you not trusted her? Can you give us some examples?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You should have said after your GF advised you can park for free after 1800, "Cool. Works for me." and kept on walking. If a ticket was present when you returned give it to your GF. :wink2:


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

I did some research about what trust actually means. After all, if my SO is saying that I do not trust her, then I should at least understand what the word "trust" means right?

According to the Oxford Dictionary:
+ 1.1 Firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something
+ 1.2 Acceptance of the truth of a statement without evidence or investigation

In terms of relationships and general conceptual measures/feelings of trust, 1.1 seems to be apply. This definition lends itself toward sweeping statements such as "I trust you", "I do not trust you", and so on. When I apply the word trust in this definition, I understand "having trust in my SO" as a firm belief that my SO is reliable, tells the truth, and is able to meet my needs. It is not so much about specific statements.

In terms of specific statements/incidents, then 1.2 seems to apply better than 1.1. For an example: double-checking the rules on a car park pay&display machine to confirm parking was free after 1800 despite my significant other saying it was. According to definition 1.2, trust would have been to accept her statement as truth without investigating the rules by double-checking the machine. Applying definition 1.2 it seems clear to me: I did not trust her.

However, while I agree it is true that I did not trust her in this specific incident, I do not believe that it automatically implies that I do not trust her generally! In terms of the recent problem, my SO is taking a specific case of not trusting and twisting it to mean I do not trust her generally. Her logic seems to be: if 1.2 is true, then 1.1 is true. I would argue that this logic is flawed.

She is human, like me. We make mistakes. I "trust" that she will make mistakes sometimes and if the situation calls for it, then I will factor this in and double-check car parking rules to avoid paying a fine. After all, regardless of what she said, it would be me who had to pay it! @Yeswecan: Although you did make me smile with your suggestion!
@EleGirl: Funny that you should mention the word "hyper-sensitive". I know that criticising someone in an argument is bad form and I should avoid it (non-violent communication, etc) but I recently made the mistake of saying "oh... you're so hyper-sensitive sometimes!". Which inflamed the situation more. Yes, she is hyper-sensitive. I just need to make sure not to tell her she is! This is not an isolated incident. Some examples:
+ She phoned our landlord to find out how much a garage would cost for the car. I had asked if she could find out how much it is before we commit to it. After the call, she told me that she had decided to take it. I asked how much it was and she was not prepared to tell me saying the cost doesn't matter (even though I'm the one paying!) and that our rent is cheap anyway, so we can afford it. The way she said it to me sounded confrontational and unkind. I reacted with anger at her approach. She now uses this case as an example of "not trusting her to make decisions" and "not trusting her".
+ If we're in the car and she tells me the right is clear but I look anyway to make sure.
+ If she says that a particular folder on the computer does not contain her missing document but I look at that folder anyway. 
+ and so on. little petty examples that are all related to the 1.2 definition and then converted to me the 1.1 general "i do not trust her".


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Why don't people trust or why can't someone receive trust? Which one of you two had/has trust issues going back in time? Which one seeks this out in a partner because it is what's comfortable to them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

modernknight said:


> @EleGirl: Funny that you should mention the word "hyper-sensitive". I know that criticising someone in an argument is bad form and I should avoid it (non-violent communication, etc) but I recently made the mistake of saying "oh... you're so hyper-sensitive sometimes!". Which inflamed the situation more. Yes, she is hyper-sensitive. I just need to make sure not to tell her she is! This is not an isolated incident. Some examples:


Oh boy..



modernknight said:


> (1) + She phoned our landlord to find out how much a garage would cost for the car. I had asked if she could find out how much it is before we commit to it. After the call, she told me that she had decided to take it. I asked how much it was and she was not prepared to tell me saying the cost doesn't matter (even though I'm the one paying!) and that our rent is cheap anyway, so we can afford it. The way she said it to me sounded confrontational and unkind. I reacted with anger at her approach. She now uses this case as an example of "not trusting her to make decisions" and "not trusting her".


She is in the wrong here. You are not married. Your money is not hers to spend. It is not her place to run up bills that you need to pay on a regular basis. 

Even if you were married, the agreement was that she would check the cost of renting the garage.

Take a look at the Policy of Joint agreement.

Do the two of you have a joint account? It sounds like you are supporting her even if you are not married. She seems to misunderstand the difference between living together and being married. It’s up to you to enforce your boundaries on this. If you do not want her running up your bills, you need to put your food down on this.

The Policy of Joint Agreement



modernknight said:


> (2) + If we're in the car and she tells me the right is clear but I look anyway to make sure.


Of course you look anyway. You are the driver. You are the one who is ultimately responsible for diving in a safe manner. If you had an accident, do you think that the police will say that the accident is not your fault because she told you it was ok? Hell no.



modernknight said:


> (3) + If she says that a particular folder on the computer does not contain her missing document but I look at that folder anyway.


This is just silly. If you are looking to help her solve an issue, then you look in the folder. Trouble shooting is a step by step process. Looking where it’s supposed to be is the first step of trouble shooting.

Did you also look in the deleted folder? LOL That’s very often where missing files end up.



modernknight said:


> + and so on. little petty examples that are all related to the 1.2 definition and then converted to me the 1.1 general "i do not trust her".


What I see her doing is to take a few small incidents, like you double checking the parking meter thing, then she throws a few boarder line things like 2 & 3 on the pile. All of this to cover for her huge transgression in #1.

Just tell her that you are a responsible and curious guy. 

So you take responsibility for when you pull out in traffic. So even though you believe her that it’s ok, you have the habit of taking responsibility of knowing as much about traffic conditions as possible when you are at the wheel.

You check everywhere, to include the folder where the file is supposed to be because you are curious. 

And you double check the parking rules because you are both curious and responsible. You would have been responsible for any fines so you were curious if there was any fine print in the law that you needed to know. You trusted her that it was free after a certain time but you were curious to know if there was anything else you needed to know.

But also tell her that she was dead wrong in renting the garage without talking to you. She was dead wrong to create a monthly bill for you with you not even knowing how much that bill is.

I went back and read your other threads. So now I remember your story. She is working to slowly beat you down emotionally. And you are allowing this to happen. 

She does not like that you go to work because you are away from her. But you are earning the money that is needed for think in HER life to include this garage and supporting her 13 year old son.

She has bullied you into letter her 13 year old son have the bedroom in your place, while you and she sleep in a small room that is not meant to be a bedroom. 

She’s trying to bully you into getting a larger, nicer place to live that you really cannot afford.

What are you doing here? Why are you ignoring your own needs?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I was scared to ask what she could contribute for fear of her reaction. Yes... *walking on eggshells*. [Your 5/12 post.]


In that case, MK, I suggest you add one more book to your reading list: _*Stop Walking on Eggshells*._ It's the best-selling book targeted to the abused partners of BPDers (i.e., people having strong to severe traits of Borderline Personality Disorder).



> Am I alone with a crazy person here? [4/30 post.]


Perhaps so, MK. Yet, "crazy" behavior is NOT what you're describing here. For behavior to be considered "crazy," the person must lose touch with _physical_ reality, e.g., believing that the TV new anchor is speaking to her personally. That is, she must have a distorted perception of physical reality. In contrast, you're describing behaviors that suggest what is distorted is her perception of your intentions and motivations:



> _"Conflict comes easily."_
> _"Jealous... she takes it waaay too far. Very extreme... and false accusations."_
> _"Unreasonable and unsupportive behavior."_
> _"Always been a bit sulky."_
> ...


Significantly, these behaviors are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD. I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reason for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend $150/hour to seek a professional opinion and help you avoid marrying a woman exhibiting many strong warning signs.



> Jekyll and Hyde. This is a big negative. For all the great things about her, when she goes into this mood it is terrible. Gone is the sweet, loving, funny girl I know replaced by someone possessed by an evil spirit.[5/11 post.]


MK, if your GF has strong BPD traits, she is so emotionally immature that she cannot tolerate experiencing strong conflicting feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, or other grey areas of interpersonal relationships. For this reason, her subconscious mind will "split off" all of the conflicting feelings, putting them far out of reach of her conscious mind. 

The result is that a BPDer will flip back and forth between perceiving of you as "all good" (i.e., white) or "all bad" (i.e., black). As you likely already know by now, such flips can occur in ten seconds. This, of course, is the same _black-white thinking_ you will see in all four-year-olds, who are adoring Daddy when he brings out the toys and hating Daddy when he takes one away. 

Like those young children, BPDers are too immature to handle the grey areas in between the polar extremes of their emotions. Hence, when they are splitting you white, BPDers can be absolutely wonderful to be around because they are caring and loving (albeit, in an immature form of love). And, when they are splitting you black, they perceive you to be Hitler incarnate and will treat you as such. It therefore is common for the abused partner of a BPDer to complain that he feels like he's living with a _Jekyll/Hyde_ -- or living with a woman _who seems to be half-way to having a multiple personality disorder_.

Due to this roller coaster ride, you often will get the impression that the BPDer has greatly improved. Indeed, BPDers will regularly be seen to "greatly improve" in the same way smokers are frequently seen to be "quitting" once again, throwing away their "last" pack. Yet, instead of seeing lasting improvement, what you likely are seeing is just another upswing in the unending roller coaster ride. It will soon be followed by the downswing.

As to your statement that the _"loving girl"_ is often replaced by _"someone possessed by an evil spirit,"_ that is how an abused partner of a BPDer will often feel even though it is not true. Generally, BPDers are caring and loving people most of the time. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct. A BPDer's problem is not being "evil" but, rather, "emotionally unstable." 

This is one reason a BPDer is prone to throwing temper tantrums and hissy fits over very minor offenses (real or imagined). It nonetheless is important that a BPDer be held fully accountable for her bad behavior, which means she must be allowed to suffer the logical consequences. Otherwise, your enabling behavior will destroy her opportunities for confronting her own issues and learning how to manage them.



> In arguments, she does not respect the fact that when I feel I'm losing my calm, I need to go outside for some fresh air. She calls it a "provocation" to hurt her. [5/11 post.]


If your GF has strong BPD traits, her refusal to allow "time outs" is to be expected. The primary reason is that BPDers lack the emotional skills to do self soothing or other types of emotional self-regulation. Being unable to calm themselves down, they intensely feel that the issue must be resolved RIGHT NOW even if it takes all night. Accordingly, even the most petty and smallest of arguments take on an immediate urgency, as though a crisis of major proportions were occurring. 

My BPDer exW, for example, would follow me around our home -- room to room -- whenever I tried to take a time out to allow things to cool down. Due to her inability to self sooth, she would be up half the night because she was unable to sleep. In contrast, whenever I managed to escape her, I would be asleep in 15 minutes.

Given that you're not yet ready to leave your GF, my advice is to see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD red flags to see if they seem to apply. 

An easy place to start reading is my list at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, MK.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

My two cents: It really doesn't matter how much of a case you build up to prove that you are right...such arguments are unproductive and "proving" yourself right to her is a lose-lose scenario. One could argue whether it is bad wiring or a gas leak that started the fire, but no matter what, the house is on fire. 

The matter isn't based on who is right or who is wrong, it is either that she is validly feeling disrespected of regular frequency that it is bothering her, OR she is over-sensitive and you find yourself constantly walking on eggshells/ avoiding emotional landmines. Could be both.

In either case, give up on semantics...and act on evidence. If you are a control freak...then get a handle on it. If she is immature or has a personality disorder, ask her to get a handle on it. Be responsible for your own stuff and set boundaries. If she wants to drag the conversation into the sewer and be pissy and throw fits, ignore it until she straightens up. If appropriate, say: "When you can talk respectfully to me, I will be happy to address your concerns, but for now, your behavior/attitude is unproductive and unhealthy and I refuse to get drawn into this sort of antagonistic dialogue."


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

sargon said:


> It was completely unnecessary for you to say that. Why say anything? You know how she is, and all you're doing is making it obvious that you weren't convinced the parking was free until you read it for yourself. You are being antagonistic and causing more grief and drama when there is no need for it.
> 
> Maybe she's not as controlling as others believe based only on your posts. Maybe you constantly second guess her and don't hold her opinion in high regard and she's reacting to that.


Good point. I didn't need to say anything. I could have looked at it as we passed and silently confirmed that we're okay to park. Thanks for the message; I'll think over this one.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

You have to ask yourself if you agree with the level and kind of trust that she requires from you.

For something technical like parking restrictions, personally, I would like a second opinion. The stakes in most cities are way too high not to get it right. In London, sometimes they tow your car and even getting clamped is costly and inconvenient. 

A couple who supports one another does not have a problem with cross checking one another.

The darker side of claiming to "trust" someone is that your partner may claim that it's not necessary to cross check you and then later on blame you for something that you have / have not done. "well, I didn't check, so how would I know for sure." My exH did that to me in defense of one of his friends.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

How trusting are you more generally? If you are not very trusting it might be worthwhile pointing out to her that your tendency to check is not restricted to her.


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## josephineperry (May 10, 2015)

I think it really depends. Maybe you've been doing things that let her think you don't trust her before but she has never told you anything. She took the parking accident as an example to tell you that you actually do not trust her in general. Maybe you should ask her why she thinks that. If her belief is only based on that particular situation, then I really think she is overreacting.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Doublechecking the meter is no big deal. We need to know the other supposed problems.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I'd say she is definitely in the wrong here, and considering the other issue of her spending your money, you should be VERY CAREFUL about getting married to her, assuming that was your plan.

I agree with the other posters that it sounds like she might be BPD.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Is there any chance, OP, that you are OCD? I ask b/c the way you've gone about posting makes me wonder. It's a shot in the dark, so if I'm off base, let me know. But do you frequently need to "check" things and/or "recheck" things? If so, she may be responding to irrational behaviors on your part and neither of you may be cognizant of what might be symptoms. 

Take with a grain of salt and call me in the morning.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

JustTired said:


> I don't think double checking to make sure you didn't have to pay the meter is a sign of total distrust in the relationship. In a situation that you just described, I would've done the same thing for my own peace of mind. It's a bit absurd to declare that your SO doesn't trust you at all because of this.


This deserves MANY LIKES !







....seriously reading that.. I felt she over reacted.. I LIKE "peace of mind"..and one thing that is pretty common is...in our fast paced society... plenty of people get things "wrong", they miss something.. maybe misread something.. whatever...it's purely an ACCIDENT... *it's not intentional at all... but it still happens!!*.. and it can cause a lot of ruckus after the fact....

I spent an hour today on the phone with the US MINT of all places for sending up a Silver set with a missing DIME... 3rd time calling because every REP so far has failed to send the pre-paid UPS mailer to send it back as promised... 3 weeks later - nothing.. I started a darn dispute with my credit card over this.. I was getting so Teeed... Oh they Boast how they are all inspected with Care, each item looked over when packaged up.. Yeah =







... 

I would never be upset if my husband double checked something....2 people on the ball is less mishaps/ mistakes and our life runs smoother..(not to mention others)... and more of that "peace of mind".. getting hung up on something like this.. is utterly silliness to me.. she took that WAY TOO personal, reading into it !

As I see it ...You didn't do anything wrong at all.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

modernknight said:


> Good point. I didn't need to say anything. I could have looked at it as we passed and silently confirmed that we're okay to park. Thanks for the message; I'll think over this one.


What I see here is a guy who is humble, willing to listen.. and re-adjust.. you apologized to her.. I mean.. Kudos to you !

You can see that , in hindsight ..looking to confirm without saying anything would have played down much better.. it's a good point -if there is ever a question next time... I think if a woman is faced with something like this.. they can banter a little with it.. not taking it personally..

I have to wonder if more is bubbling under the surface in the relationship - UN RELATED TO THIS INCIDENT ... as many times.. those things get pushed down, but attitudes rear their heads in other ways.. like this for example... which is pretty "small" in the scheme of things...


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@sisters359: Hi. I'm not OCD.  Well... not that I know of! ;-). Seriously though... I've never been diagnosed and once had a girlfriend who had OCD. She had to have everything in order and if one plate was out of place she went crazy at her housemate. Having read a little about it also, I'm confident I don't have it. 
@tryingtobebetter: I'm generally very trusting. If my girlfriend wants to go out, I don't make a fuss about it, I support her and have a nice evening/day doing something for me (watching something, playing something, and so on). I've never stopped her going out or suggested/implied it was wrong to go out. When it comes to what most relationships determine as trust, I'm trusting. Hell... there was this one time that I saw this guy look at her and give her a "hi beautiful" smile as we crossed a street. My girlfriend smiled back. I could clearly see that she had found him attractive. Sure, one part of me was a little scared, but the other part found it funny and I laughed about it and made a little joke; I'm mean he was pretty handsome. lol. So... trusting: Generally, I'd say I'm trusting.
@SimplyAmorous: Thanks for your kind posts. I hadn't checked this site for a while and came back today after a bad day yesterday with my girlfriend because she is angry that I still haven't found a bigger apartment for us and once again accused me of lying that I want to find one (see one of my other posts for more detail on that one). The point is.... yes, there definitely is something bubbling under the surface that is unrelated to this incident! I totally agree with your style of "checking". Two people supporting each other and working together is much more constructive than taking offence so easily; and yes, she takes offence very easily. When I think about most of the arguments we have, it's usually because she took offence at something. Generally... when I get mad at her, it's because I'm upset how she's treating me after she's taking offence at something petty. That's when I take offence.  Wish I didn't though. Wish I could be like the Buddha and let it all bounce off me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

modernknight said:


> Do I distrust her?


The bigger question is, "Why are you in this relationship?"

And please don't say it's because you love her. There is something really "off" with this woman. And you continue to accept her crazy-making behavior.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. Sometimes you just can't make things work regardless of how much you love someone (and I'm speaking from experience).


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

Actually... today I can say that I do not trust her.

This last week and a half has been far more difficult than usual. She's in her "raging angry person mode" and it's pretty ugly and distressing. Most of the attacks have come because of the apartment and the fact that I still haven't found an apartment for us to move to. She's been saying things like "you don't care", "you control me", "other men would have no problem finding an apartment", and has continued to call me a liar (supposedly... the fact that I have not found an apartment yet means that I am lying that I want to find one!). I tried to explain that I look for apartments every day and haven't found anything that meets the criteria (that she specified!), although I have shared a google spreadsheet with her that needs to her to go through just in case one of the ones I rejected is something she'd be interested in (but she doesn't go through the list or look with me!). It's like a double bind!!!! She flipped out at some point and started throwing my clothes in the hallway telling me that I should find a hotel for the night. I started to lose my calm and said that I felt I was losing my calm with this and need a 5 min fresh air break outside, to which she threatened that if I left the house she wouldn't let me back in!

The more this goes on the more I think I should leave. Also though, the more it goes on the more insecure I become in the relationship. To the point that last night she went out to a bbq and my thoughts were full of paranoid ideas that she was meeting someone even though I don't have any evidence to back that up. I was worried she might call to say that she would stay over at a friends but that didnt happen. She called me to ask if I would pick her up, which I did. Foolishly I told her that I'm feeling very insecure and thought I don't think she would do anything I was having paranoid thoughts that she might have met someone. 

I shouldn't have said that right? Today, she told me that it was totally wrong of me to not trust her and told me that the fact I don't trust her "makes her want to go out and be free". And by "free" I am guessing that there is an implication that it means a man or something. I mean... I'm paranoid but I'm not so paranoid to misunderstand that? 

So it just gets worse and worse. It's like emotional torture. Yet... I'm still sitting her thinking about all the wrong I've done, all the mistakes I've made, and how it's my fault. What is wrong with me?

Well... it's clear now that I do not trust her really right?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like you should leave. 

Some men carry a relationship, some carry half, and some are carried. You do not want, or are not able, to carry her, so you need to find someone to carry half, or someone who will carry you.

Or maybe when you are gone she will decide to carry you, or at least half. But it seems like her nature is to want to be carried.

Don't try to make something work. Find something that works on its own. Much easier that way.


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@jld: If only the choice to carry someone were so easy:
GF: "I need you to carry me, will you please carry me?" 
BF: "I love you darling, I will carry you."
GF: "How dare you offer to carry me! You don't respect me! You don't respect my independence! No one should carry me! I can carry myself!".


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't think it is your nature to carry her, or you would already be doing it. I think you have your own needs that need met. 

You need someone to soothe and comfort you, reassure you. That person is out there. Let go of this one and go find that one.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

liamm said:


> Its perfectly clear. To us, and more importantly, to her.
> 
> Why do you keep questioning her and telling her that you don't trust her when you know it triggers her? It's like you WANT to make things worse.


I don't think he wants to make things worse. He is just trying to get his needs met. For him, that comes before meeting her needs.

He needs someone who will put his needs first. Then he will be reassured, and will be able to meet that person's needs.


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@jld: 
"He is just trying to get his needs met.". I agree. I do want to get my needs met. That's why I'm posting in this forum.
"For him, that comes before meeting her needs.". How do you come to the conclusion? I strongly disagree. I consistently put my needs second to hers. I think that's part of my problem...
"He needs someone who will put his needs first.". I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. It suggests you know exactly what goes on in my head. Of course I need someone to meet my needs; everyone has needs (ref: Maslow). However, concluding that I need someone who puts my needs first is totally counter to the reality and at odds with what I've written here.
@liamm:
"Its perfectly clear. To us, and more importantly, to her.". Who are the "us"? You and other(s) sitting behind a computer somewhere or the whole forum community?
"Why do you keep questioning her and telling her that you don't trust her when you know it triggers her? It's like you WANT to make things worse.". Good question. I can assure you though that despite how you perceive it, I really do not want to make things worse. Quite the opposite.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

_The more this goes on the more I think I should leave. Also though, the more it goes on *the more insecure I become in the relationship. To the point that last night she went out to a bbq and my thoughts were full of paranoid ideas that she was meeting someone even though I don't have any evidence to back that up. *I was worried she might call to say that she would stay over at a friends but that didnt happen. She called me to ask if I would pick her up, which I did. *Foolishly I told her that I'm feeling very insecure and thought I don't think she would do anything I was having paranoid thoughts that she might have met someone. *_

I think your first concern here was looking for reassurance. It was not, Is she safe? Can I help her in some way? No, your own need to be reassured came to mind first. 

And there is nothing wrong with that! _If_ you are with a woman who is happy to put your needs first. And there are women like that out there.

Anything any of us writes is our opinion, drawn from what you write and our interpretation of it. Of course we are not in each other's heads. And sometimes we are not really sure of what is in our own heads.

John Gottman wrote that battered wives often give their marriages high marks on surveys. I think that shows you really cannot be sure of anything people say. They may not have a reliable reference point.

So, take my opinion for what it is worth. If it helps, great. If not, feel free to discard it.


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@jld: Now I see the misunderstanding and I see the ambiguity in my earlier post. The post may lead readers to assume the first thing I did when she asked me to pick her up was to express my insecurity. It was not. The first thing I did was to make it clear that I would come pick her up. I drove 20 minutes to pick her up, 20 minutes waiting outside her friends, and 20 minutes to drive back. All without any mention of my insecurity. Not a word. About 10 minutes after getting back we were relaxing and she was talking about her evening. It was after that discussion that I expressed my insecurity. I hope it is clear now that my first concern was far from looking reassurance. Looking for reassurance came very far behind making sure she was safe and helping out. Making sure she was safe came first.

Thanks for your comment at the end at opinion. I value your opinion; truly. Everything that every poster writes here is important to me. Especially the ones that cause me to react in some way (be it anger, frustration, denial, and so on). For it is when I feel denial, disagreement, anger that I know that a nerve has been hit there is something to investigate within myself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But you understand, mk, that there are men who would never have the idea of their girlfriend cheating cross their minds, right? And if the answer on an apartment is No, then No is what they say. They do not get all broken up inside about her reaction. They just do what is in the family's best interest, and trust that in time she will see that. They do not take her emotions personally, while at the same time they do listen to her and take her concerns seriously. 

But that is not the only way to do things, either!

You could negotiate to have your concerns take up half the space in the relationship, and be half the priority, too. Or you could ask her to put your needs first, or find someone who does. 

There is more than one way to work this!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

liamm said:


> Most people put their own needs first. That's just how we're wired. A person meets our needs, we feel comforted, satisfied, loved, and we reciprocate. If he wants his needs met, if he wants this relationship to work then he needs to break the cycle of questioning her trust which invariably sets her off into a tail spin and increases conflict and brings him in the opposite direction from his goal.
> 
> By questioning her, by stating he has trust concerns, by asking for reassurance, these are all ways of saying he does not trust her, and the truth of the matter is, if she is not to be trusted, then she's not going to answer his questions honestly so to ask them in the first place is completely pointless and counterproductive.
> 
> No matter what you are feeling inside you need to keep your mouth closed and your eyes open.


But some people's need is to put others needs first. It makes them feel good. That is the kind of person I think he needs.

You can make all kinds of things "work." But why would you want to, if there is a more effortless, more mutually satisfying way?


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## modernknight (Apr 24, 2015)

@jld:
"But some people's need is to put others needs first. It makes them feel good. That is the kind of person I think he needs." 

No, that's not what I need. Or want. I've dated a few women who were like that and that kind of relationship or person is not for me. If anything, I seem to enjoy relationships more where I am fulfilling the needs of the other person. Unfortunately, this often comes at the expense of my own needs, which can be harmful.
@liamm:
"If he wants to stay with her he's gotta change how he approaches her about these things."

Now that I agree with. Very true.


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