# Best Books on Pleasing Your Wife



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

What books would you recommend on fulfilling her needs and improving your relationship with your wife?

To be clear, I’m not using “needs” and “pleasing” as euphemisms for sex. I’m talking about books addressing any/all aspects of a relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman by Ian Kerner (Author)


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman by Ian Kerner (Author)


I hate to say it, but my wife absolutely *hated* that book. Thought it was a total crock. I thought it was pretty good, but she took no time in reminding me that neither I, nor the author, is a woman.

To try to be more helpful, I'll add that the book may be as good as anything out there; it just didn't apply _to her_. She took offense that the book came across as though it should be a fool proof recipe for _any_ woman and if it didnt work, she was somehow defective. 

My wife (who may be nothing like yours) was at least able to tolerate Come As You Are by Dr. Emily Nagoski.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The book of Conan, written by Conan for Mrs. Conan, only to be used by the Conan's.

I study my wife and take notes.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> The book of Conan, written by Conan for Mrs. Conan, only to be used by the Conan's.
> 
> I study my wife and take notes.


this is awesome. :nerd::laugh:


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Check book seems to work perfectly.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

How about the bible. Pretty good lessons in there about how to be a better person.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I hate to say it, but my wife absolutely *hated* that book. Thought it was a total crock. I thought it was pretty good, but she took no time in reminding me that neither I, nor the author, is a woman.
> 
> To try to be more helpful, I'll add that the book may be as good as anything out there; it just didn't apply _to her_. She took offense that the book came across as though it should be a fool proof recipe for _any_ woman and if it didnt work, she was somehow defective.
> 
> My wife (who may be nothing like yours) was at least able to tolerate Come As You Are by Dr. Emily Nagoski.


I learned about the book from several men here on TAM who have posted about it and how much it helped their sex life with their wife. Like most things, I guess it works for some and not for others.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> The book of Conan, written by Conan for Mrs. Conan, only to be used by the Conan's.
> 
> I study my wife and take notes.


👍👍 you beat me to it, I bow to you 😁😁 

I was literally thinking when reading, watch for Ragnar's "Viking Guide to Loving The Whole Woman", to be used cautiously as side effects include creating a happy wife.

😉😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I learned about the book from several men here on TAM who have posted about it and how much it helped their sex life with YOUR wife. Like most things, I guess it works for some and not for others.


This has to be one of the funniest typos ever!!!!!:laugh:

You rock Ele!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> What books would you recommend on fulfilling her needs and improving your relationship with your wife?
> 
> To be clear, I’m not using “needs” and “pleasing” as euphemisms for sex. I’m talking about books addressing any/all aspects of a relationship.


https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Mal...ocphy=9013956&hvtargid=pla-405698725805&psc=1

Become more rational


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Check book seems to work perfectly.


another classic! :grin2:


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> What books would you recommend on fulfilling her needs and improving your relationship with your wife?
> 
> To be clear, I’m not using “needs” and “pleasing” as euphemisms for sex. I’m talking about books addressing any/all aspects of a relationship.


His Needs/Her Needs. The Rational Male. Married Mans Sex Life Primer (because sex is an important aspect of any relationship)

5 Love Languages. Anything by Esther Perel (Mating in Captivity)


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I remember “Light Her Fire” being good but it’s not on Kindle.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

The Married Man Sex Life Primer


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I bought and read, The Married Man's Sex Life Primer, and thought it was ridiculous. If my husband tried that kind of thing on me, it would not work. We have an egalitarian marriage. "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" is for marriages where the husband is in charge of the wife. It may work if your wife enjoys being bossed around and spanked when she disobeys.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

The Dead Bedroom Fix :wink2:


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> I bought and read, The Married Man's Sex Life Primer, and thought it was ridiculous. If my husband tried that kind of thing on me, it would not work. We have an egalitarian marriage. "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" is for marriages where the husband is in charge of the wife. It may work if your wife enjoys being bossed around and spanked when she disobeys.


My wife wears the pants. That wouldn’t work for us.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> I bought and read, The Married Man's Sex Life Primer, and thought it was ridiculous. If my husband tried that kind of thing on me, it would not work. We have an egalitarian marriage. "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" is for marriages where the husband is in charge of the wife. It may work if your wife enjoys being bossed around and spanked when she disobeys.


I agree. It's actually insulting.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> I bought and read, The Married Man's Sex Life Primer, and thought it was ridiculous. If my husband tried that kind of thing on me, it would not work. We have an egalitarian marriage. "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" is for marriages where the husband is in charge of the wife. It may work if your wife enjoys being bossed around and spanked when she disobeys.


You obviously haven't read the book of thats what you got from it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You obviously haven't read the book of thats what you got from it.


I definitely read the book and that is what I got from it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I bought and read, The Married Man's Sex Life Primer, and thought it was ridiculous. If my husband tried that kind of thing on me, it would not work. We have an egalitarian marriage. "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" is for marriages where the husband is in charge of the wife. It may work if your wife enjoys being bossed around and spanked when she disobeys.


Spankins aren't always bad.:wink2:>


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The Married Man Sex Life Primer


It should be noted, this is for men to read.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Spankins aren't always bad.:wink2:>


I agree, but there are perimeters where both parties must agree.




OnTheFly said:


> It should be noted, this is for men to read.


About how they ought to treat their wives. Wives have an interest in how they are treated. I didn't recommend the book to my husband.

I'm not saying that Kay's approach to marriage is wrong. It seems to be working for both him and his wife. I do know, however, that his approach wouldn't work in my marriage.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm not saying that Kay's approach to marriage is wrong. It seems to be working for both him and his wife. I do know, however, that his approach wouldn't work in my marriage.


When you say it like that, I agree.

MMSL helped me in some important ways. And in some ways it didn't. For the OP it may or may not help.

But, it's a valid book recommendation.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > Spankins aren't always bad.<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a>
> ...


It also depends where your marriage is. If you have a happy marriage with copious amounts of sex, then no need to read the book. If your marriage had been zapped of much of its passion and you have basically a dead bedroom, then it should be a must read for all men.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CynthiaDe said:


> I definitely read the book and that is what I got from it.


My wife and I as well. I don't think that's an unusual interpretation.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > I definitely read the book and that is what I got from it.
> ...


Its not for women, so who cares what your wife thinks. Only thing that matters is whether it works. Does your wife like muscles, does your wife like to be wanted, does you wife prefer you take charge or rather you beg for sex? Its a how to guide and if she responds you get a renewed sex life, if she doesn't then you move on with far greater options than before. Its about improving your own sexual life with or without her. Its far more useful than figuring out if your wife is INFM-J or whatever psychobabble crap they publish.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its not for women, so who cares what your wife thinks. Only thing that matters is whether it works. Does your wife like muscles, does your wife like to be wanted, does you wife prefer you take charge or rather you beg for sex? Its a how to guide and if she responds you get a renewed sex life, if she doesn't then you move on with far greater options than before. Its about improving your own sexual life with or without her. Its far more useful than figuring out if your wife is INFM-J or whatever psychobabble crap they publish.


Oh, God forbid the wimminz see the recipe for our secret sauce for getting them naked more often!

That my wife loves my muscles, my desire, and my alpha male decisiveness does not obviate her refusal to be considered a lesser being only fit to be led by the man of the house, which is how the book comes across at times if not often enough to consider that its central thesis.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Its not for women, so who cares what your wife thinks. Only thing that matters is whether it works. Does your wife like muscles, does your wife like to be wanted, does you wife prefer you take charge or rather you beg for sex? Its a how to guide and if she responds you get a renewed sex life, if she doesn't then you move on with far greater options than before. Its about improving your own sexual life with or without her. Its far more useful than figuring out if your wife is INFM-J or whatever psychobabble crap they publish.
> ...


Its not a secret sauce, PUAs have used it for years with lots of success. Any nitwit can put it to practice and have better results than spending lonely nights with callused hands (from videogames of course). Yes, women like a man to lead, they would rather their husband be the one that wears the pants. Have men been so wussified that they can't figure that out? Thats why its a central thesis.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its not a secret sauce, PUAs have used it for years with lots of success. Any nitwit can put it to practice and have better results than spending lonely nights with callused hands (from videogames of course). Yes, women like a man to lead, they would rather their husband be the one that wears the pants. Have men been so wussified that they can't figure that out? Thats why its a central thesis.


And any woman who is so easily taken in by a PUA isn't worth my attention. 

Meanwhile my wife prefers I "wear the pants," and i do. That doesn't imply, however, that shes capable of nothing but visceral responses to muscles and alpha behavior. The real wuss is the "man" who can only accept a servile lap dog driven solely by base instinct.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> What books would you recommend on fulfilling her needs and improving your relationship with your wife?
> 
> To be clear, I’m not using “needs” and “pleasing” as euphemisms for sex. I’m talking about books addressing any/all aspects of a relationship.


Electric Motors and Drives: Fundamentals, Types and Applications, 4th Edition"]

Awesome Gears

AND+++

Marital Lube

AND+++

Average-sized specialist tool


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Its not a secret sauce, PUAs have used it for years with lots of success. Any nitwit can put it to practice and have better results than spending lonely nights with callused hands (from videogames of course). Yes, women like a man to lead, they would rather their husband be the one that wears the pants. Have men been so wussified that they can't figure that out? Thats why its a central thesis.
> ...


Nobodys implying anything. Nobody is saying anyone should be a servile lap dog. But there are ways to build attraction and certain cues that women respond to whether based in evolution or social conditioning. That is all this book is. 

Like I said, if you have a great marriage with copious amounts of sex, ignore this book. If not, its a must read. No one should settle for a sexless marriage. But you can only control yourself and better yourself and hope she follows along, if not then its probably over. But atleast you are better prepared if you follow his advice.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Double post


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

It's not necessarily a book for married men but I think the philosophy works for all men. Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. I would also recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud. 

I read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and Rationale Male. As a scientist I bounced between hilarious laughter and wanting to barf reading some of the crap in these books.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Lila said:


> It's not necessarily a book for married men but I think the philosophy works for all men. Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. I would also recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud.
> 
> I read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and Rationale Male. As a scientist I bounced between hilarious laughter and wanting to barf reading some of the crap in these books.


Unless you are really a man (named Lila?) dating women, your opinion is unfounded. If it didn't work, no one would buy it! And it works on all women, not just the loose dumb ones 🙂.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Lila said:


> I read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and Rationale Male. As a scientist I bounced between hilarious laughter and wanting to barf reading some of the crap in these books.


I have not read Rational Male, but I had a similar response to MMSLP.

Yes, most women want a strong, virile man, but that is not the same as a man who does not care what his wife thinks about something that deeply impacts her.



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its not for women, so who cares what your wife thinks.


I'm wondering how that's working for you. How is your relationship with your wife since you took charge?

Manipulation isn't a good relationship strategy. The idea is to build a warm, loving relationship. I recommend I Corinthians 13 as a start: 
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails;


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and Rationale Male. As a scientist I bounced between hilarious laughter and wanting to barf reading some of the crap in these books.
> ...


I said that because his wife isn't a man! Not because I'm a misogynist. The book is just a guide to seducing women, it isn't some book on how to treat a woman like trash. That doesn't work! These people haven't read it or are so entrenched in feminism they can't stand that game actually works.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I said that because his wife isn't a man! Not because I'm a misogynist. The book is just a guide to seducing women, it isn't some book on how to treat a woman like trash. That doesn't work! These people haven't read it or are so entrenched in feminism they can't stand that game actually works.


I don't think you understand the game.

It's about being confident and in charge of oneself.

It's not about taking charge of someone else, which is what this book (MMSLP) instructs men to do.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > I said that because his wife isn't a man! Not because I'm a misogynist. The book is just a guide to seducing women, it isn't some book on how to treat a woman like trash. That doesn't work! These people haven't read it or are so entrenched in feminism they can't stand that game actually works.
> ...


Can you provide examples from the book so I understand what you are referring to? Its been awhile since I read it and my memory kinda sucks, so maybe I missed it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > It's not necessarily a book for married men but I think the philosophy works for all men. Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. I would also recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud.
> ...


So only men's opinions on the supposed SCIENCE backing the books mentioned is acceptable? Didn't you say you weren't a misogynist? With comments like that, I'm beginning to think that is not true. 

I'm a scientist first and foremost. Most of the supposed "science" in both those books is unfounded.

Eta:. And no, it doesn't work on all women. We don't share a herd mentality.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Lila said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Lila said:
> ...


The men do the field tests and report back with the results. What you find is men spinning plates and an unconsciousable count number. There is absolutely no science that can back it up. But the results speak for themselves. The hindbrain is a powerful drive in humans. Evolutionary cues are still picked up even if subconsciously. If it wasn't we'd all be extinct.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Can you provide examples from the book so I understand what you are referring to? Its been awhile since I read it and my memory kinda sucks, so maybe I missed it.


The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011:

pg. 129:
"You can also try some moments of dominance on her and watch her reactions to it. "We're going to the movies/dinner/out/whatever" and just assume it's going to happen. If she's acting more interested and attentive to you because of your dominant display, she's probably submissive. You don't have to turn into the boss of everything overnight and micromanaging anyone is tediously annoyed to both parties. Just start setting the tone once in a while and watch and see how she reacts."

pg 130:
"As I've said before you're the Captain and she the First Officer. Oh sure, the mom can step up and kick ass and take names if need be, but for the really nasty stuff she feels like G.I Jane when she'd probably rather be Barbie. Ideally a Barbie hooking up with a G.I. Joe. (We all knew Ken was nervous about G.I. Joe right?)"

pg. 278-279
"Okay, let's do the hooker math now. Figure out how much money you spent on your wife int he last year and divide that by the number of times you've had sex in the same time period. That's your cost per lay. Is that more or less than the price of a nice hooker?"


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you provide examples from the book so I understand what you are referring to? Its been awhile since I read it and my memory kinda sucks, so maybe I missed it.
> ...


Yea, so....


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011:
> 
> pg. 278-279
> "Okay, let's do the hooker math now. Figure out how much money you spent on your wife int he last year and divide that by the number of times you've had sex in the same time period. That's your cost per lay. Is that more or less than the price of a nice hooker?"


Literally LOLed. This has no place in a serious marriage advice book. A shock jock or comedy show, maybe.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011:
> ...


Disagree, this is a very logical analysis of the state of a marriage. Especially when another new thread pops up everyday here about how their wife won't to have sex with him anymore. Marriages end because of just this. 

Of course, he could make it more PC and dry and get the same point across. Except no one would buy it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Disagree, this is a very logical analysis of the state of a marriage. Especially when another new thread pops up everyday here about how their wife won't to have sex with him anymore. Marriages end because of just this.
> 
> Of course, he could make it more PC and dry and get the same point across. Except no one would buy it.


This shows that you miss the point about marriage and relationships. If you think that it's all about how much money a man has to put out in order to get laid, your thinking is pretty far gone. That kind of thinking doesn't make good relationships.

Also, you have changed the subject.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The men do the field tests and report back with the results. What you find is men spinning plates and an unconsciousable count number. There is absolutely no science that can back it up. But the results speak for themselves. The hindbrain is a powerful drive in humans. Evolutionary cues are still picked up even if subconsciously. If it wasn't we'd all be extinct.


Like I said. Nothing more than parlor tricks to be able to bed unevolved females. 

Pass.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The men do the field tests and report back with the results. What you find is men spinning plates and an unconsciousable count number. *There is absolutely no science that can back it up. But the results speak for themselves.* The hindbrain is a powerful drive in humans. Evolutionary cues are still picked up even if subconsciously. If it wasn't we'd all be extinct.


if there is no science to back it up then how can you say the results speak for themselves? 

The problem with using non scientifically obtained self reported results to base an entire opinion is the tendency for positive bias. 

First, we don't know exactly how many men have actually attempted to test the behaviors described in the books. 
Did 1 M try them and 990,000 find success? Did 1 M try them and 100,000 find success? Big difference. 

Second, where did you obtain these self reported results? Was it from the author's website where only positive results are welcomed? Was it on some men's forum where nothing but a herd mentality is accepted? Or were they reported through and independent, and unbiased third party?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Lila said:


> if there is no science to back it up then how can you say the results speak for themselves?
> 
> The problem with using non scientifically obtained self reported results to base an entire opinion is the tendency for positive bias.
> 
> ...


... and fourth, were the reports given by the men accurate in the first place? It's not like men don't like to exaggerate the quantity/intensity/frequency of their conquests now, is it? Self reporting is always suspect, especially from a nonrandom sampling. The kind of guys who buy this stuff are exactly the kind to pad their numbers. The entire data chain here is unreliable. 

And again, even if it was, what does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean these guys are getting satisfying, well rounded relationships with equal partners. So again, I pass.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I definitely read the book and that is what I got from it.


It is called a married MAN's sex life primer ...right?
What would a woman get out of a book written specifically for men? 
Would not waste my time reading 50 Shades of Gray either....

Best way to please you wife, OP... read books for men.
Improve yourself. 
She'll dig it.

Oh yeah, the more a woman professes to dislike a book about improving yourself as a man, the better the book is for you and your sex life.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Disagree, this is a very logical analysis of the state of a marriage. Especially when another new thread pops up everyday here about how their wife won't to have sex with him anymore. Marriages end because of just this.
> ...


The point is if a man is not getting laid by his own wife in a marriage, why is he even married...?

"Now this is a pretty loose and highly offensive way of assessing your wife and I don’t advise making too much of it. But if that number is much larger than you feel comfortable admitting to, maybe you need to really consider what you are getting from the relationship. If everything flows from you to her and nothing much flows from her to you, why bother?


Now I know that you’re not going to bail on your wife and plan to eat Ramen noodles to maximize your hooker money. That seems like it might be fun for a week, but after that it’s all a bit impersonal. I’m just trying to get you thinking clearer and trying to get some perspective on your situation. Like I said before, you’re really probably looking at the possibility of leaving your wife to remarry someone that’s actually interested in you. If you have Oneitis, you’re like a drug addict for her; I’m trying to stage a mini-intervention here."


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I hear the Red Pill line of thinking: A man’s worth is his wallet. A woman’s worth is her youth and beauty. In the old days, a nice guy would enjoy his wife’s youth while he was poor, then as she aged she would get to enjoy his rising income. A woman today, they say, spends her teens and twenties banging sexy bad boys, giving her youth to losers while waiting for the nice guy’s wallet to fatten. Once she turns thirty and she’s all used up, she “changes lanes” and gets the 30 yo nice guy to marry her. 

So apparently these Red Pill guys are also writing marriage advice books. I don’t think they’re the right people to give advice on men, women and relationships.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Lila said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > The men do the field tests and report back with the results. What you find is men spinning plates and an unconsciousable count number. *There is absolutely no science that can back it up. But the results speak for themselves.* The hindbrain is a powerful drive in humans. Evolutionary cues are still picked up even if subconsciously. If it wasn't we'd all be extinct.
> ...


You are wasting your time. I already said it isn't science and I'm not a scientist. But I can tell you what worked for me and others like me. And of course it may not always work, and the book doesn't pretend that it does. But it beats doing the same thing over and over with the same lousy results. It gives you a blueprint on what you can do to build the attraction based on evo-psych techniques and if it doesn't work it may be time to cut loose the albatross.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> It is called a married MAN's sex life primer ...right?
> What would a woman get out of a book written specifically for men?
> Would not waste my time reading 50 Shades of Gray either....


I chose to read the book in order to make an intelligent and well researched opinion. I don't take people's word for anything. That's called mindless regurgitation. 



> Oh yeah, the more a woman professes to dislike a book about improving yourself as a man, the better the book is for you and your sex life.


OP this is the kind of thinking those books advocate. They teach that women don't know their own minds. They teach that a woman will say one thing but deep down inside wants something else, something only you as the man can lead her to want. It's bull**** and dangerous thinking. I am not saying you shouldn't read the book but I do think you should know your audience before making it your relationship gospel.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> It is called a married MAN's sex life primer ...right?
> What would a woman get out of a book written specifically for men?
> Would not waste my time reading 50 Shades of Gray either....
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness. This is so funny I almost spilled my smoothie! hahahaha 

Why don't you try that and see how it works for you. hahaha

Men and women alike should be constantly working to improve themselves. I don't think trying to find ways to dominate another human being is self improvement. Neither is seeing one's wife as a prostitute and sex as a financial transaction.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > The men do the field tests and report back with the results. What you find is men spinning plates and an unconsciousable count number. There is absolutely no science that can back it up. But the results speak for themselves. The hindbrain is a powerful drive in humans. Evolutionary cues are still picked up even if subconsciously. If it wasn't we'd all be extinct.
> ...


Unevolved females can still be fun in bed 🙂


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Lila said:


> I chose to read the book in order to make an intelligent and well researched opinion. I don't take people's word for anything. That's called mindless regurgitation.
> 
> 
> 
> OP this is the kind of thinking those books advocate. They teach that women don't know their own minds. *They teach that a woman will say one thing but deep down inside wants something else, something only you as the man can lead her to want. * It's bull**** and dangerous thinking. I am not saying you shouldn't read the book but I do think you should know your audience before making it your relationship gospel.


What's more, if such women exist, those are not the women that any solid man wants to make a life with. I suppose it works for guy who can't handle a wife being an equal.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> [
> 
> You are wasting your time.* I already said it isn't science* and I'm not a scientist. But I can tell you what worked for me and others like me. And of course it may not always work, and the book doesn't pretend that it does. But it beats doing the same thing over and over with the same lousy results. *It gives you a blueprint on what you can do to build the attraction based on evo-psych techniques* and if it doesn't work it may be time to cut loose the albatross.


Glad we agree that Evo psych is not science. It's made up garbage.

And It's not a waste of time if I can convince one person that those books are based on bull****.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Unevolved females can still be fun in bed 🙂


But not someone I want to build a life with.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> What's more, if such women exist, those are not the women that any solid man wants to make a life with. I suppose it works for guy who can't handle a wife being an equal.


There is no middle ground with those books. Women are either mindless, irresponsible children (I think the books call them the oldest teenager in the house) or lesbian feminists.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> There is no middle ground with those books. Women are either mindless, irresponsible children (I think the books call them the oldest teenager in the house) or lesbian feminists.


Or you forgot, dumb women who wasted their precious eggs by riding the **** carousel until they are 30, and then "no man wants them because they are too old". :rofl: So apparently these ones end up with no man, no baby, and are endlessly wandering the earth asking aloud "oh why, why why did I ride the **** carousel instead of marry a man and have babies???" I have yet to see these women, but MMSL and it's supporters assure us they are "everywhere".

Just sooooo interesting how they alllllllll say the same thing.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Or you forgot, dumb women who wasted their precious eggs by riding the **** carousel until they are 30, and then "no man wants them because they are too old". :rofl: So apparently these ones end up with no man, no baby, and are endlessly wandering the earth asking aloud "oh why, why why did I ride the **** carousel instead of marry a man and have babies???" I have yet to see these women, but MMSL and it's supporters assure us they are "everywhere".
> 
> Just sooooo interesting how they alllllllll say the same thing.


Thank you once again for a hilarious post! (setting aside that it's rather sad so many actually believe all this stuff)


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP, you wanted advice on books to read.
Read this thread, it will tell you all you need to know.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Unevolved females can still be fun in bed 🙂
> ...


Of course, not.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But not someone I want to build a life with.


Thank you Rocky for representing decent men and pushing back against this stuff. For a long time, the men at TAM would not push back because there were so many MMSL supporters here (including the author, who apparently crafted his book based on TAM posts, which he says in his dedication). So during that time, just some women would be pushing back against literally a dozen or more men who would post nothing but all these "man rules" about how women are children who need to be handled in a certain fashion. Those of us women of substance here would push back against that and be like wow, my man does not want a woman he needs to "handle" or else she will apparently **** everyone she meets or just blow up the house due to stupidity or something. He actually wants a responsible adult. And the men other than the MMSL men would just back down because there were too many of them. By that I mean, there were always a lot of good men here who thought that stuff was crap, but they would not speak out against all of the LOUD and obnoxious dudes because it just wasn't worth it. 

These days you and a few others are willing to push back. I appreciate it so much. Also you and the good guys around here vastly outnumber the RP/PUA/MMSL dudes now. And TAM is a better place. :x


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Lila said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Then don't read it, its not marketed to females anyways. You are not permitted, unless you bring friends and beers.


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## MapMan (Dec 11, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The Married Man Sex Life Primer


I can't stress enough how good this book is. You will never be able to "please" her - no matter what you do to that end, it will make her not value you. But if you want her to be satisfied and happy in her life, read and follow this book. And don't listen to anyone else's opinion about it.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

MapMan said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > The Married Man Sex Life Primer
> ...


I’m reading it right now. Just getting to the MAP stuff.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MapMan said:


> I can't stress enough how good this book is. You will never be able to "please" her - no matter what you do to that end, it will make her not value you. But if you want her to be satisfied and happy in her life, read and follow this book. And don't listen to anyone else's opinion about it.


Right. Because we should listen to your opinion. Because you say so.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Then don't read it, its not marketed to females anyways. You are not permitted, unless you bring friends and beers.


Again 
"I chose to read the book in order to make an intelligent and well researched opinion. I don't take people's word for anything. That's called mindless regurgitation."

Unless you're into guys and you're buying, you'll be waiting on that friends and beer for a very long time.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> I’m reading it right now. Just getting to the MAP stuff.


When you get to the part on sperm wars and hypogamy, keep in mind, there is no scientific basis for either of these. So in other words, the author is taking someone else's theory and expanding it as if it is totally 100% true, factual, scientific and can be proven! 

Except when you go to try to find any science behind these, you find just a bunch of surveys, theories, and made up ****. Oh and of course, links to other RP/PUA books and blogs.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MapMan said:


> I can't stress enough how good this book is. You will never be able to "please" her - no matter what you do to that end, it will make her not value you. But if you want her to be satisfied and happy in her life, read and follow this book. * And don't listen to anyone else's opinion about it.*


Why should your opinion be the only one that carries any weight on TAM. The whole purpose of a forum like this is to discuss different points of view.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> I’m reading it right now. Just getting to the MAP stuff.


Shhhhhh...it's fight club.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011:
> 
> pg. 129:
> "You can also try some moments of dominance on her and watch her reactions to it. "We're going to the movies/dinner/out/whatever" and just assume it's going to happen. If she's acting more interested and attentive to you because of your dominant display, she's probably submissive. You don't have to turn into the boss of everything overnight and micromanaging anyone is tediously annoyed to both parties. Just start setting the tone once in a while and watch and see how she reacts."
> ...


These are actually not bad and he does caution to check it out lightly if it works for her or not.

The hooker math was pretty funny! I guess if it works for a man to spend more time and money on his wife but I hate thinking like that myself.:laugh:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Lila said:


> Why should your opinion be the only one that carries any weight on TAM. The whole purpose of a forum like this is to *discuss* different points of view.


Discuss: taking into account different ideas and opinions.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > Why should your opinion be the only one that carries any weight on TAM. The whole purpose of a forum like this is to *discuss* different points of view.
> ...



You want to describe the positives of a specific book then do so. Don't just state, "my opinion is the best nananibooboo" and exit stage left which is exactly what saying "don't take someone else's opinion into account" is doing. 

You want to discuss the negatives of a specific book then do so. Don't just state "my opinion is the best" and exit stage left. 

Same page?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I think much of Athol's material originates from the 'Rational Male' which was a collection of blogs that later the author put out in book format. But he did a good job crafting it towards a more marriage orientation, whereas Rational Male is more geared toward single men.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

MMSLP: When a wife asks that you bring her flowers, it is a “**** test.” You should always answer “no” to these **** tests. In the short term she will be upset, but then she will feel happy and more attracted to you because of your dominance. pg 133-135


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> MMSLP: When a wife asks that you bring her flowers, it is a “**** test.” You should always answer “no” to these **** tests. In the short term she will be upset, but then she will feel happy and more attracted to you because of your dominance. pg 133-135


I disagree, but you should answer no, because its too contrived. You bring the flowers a few days later or when you feel like its warranted.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> MMSLP: When a wife asks that you bring her flowers, it is a “**** test.” You should always answer “no” to these **** tests. In the short term she will be upset, but then she will feel happy and more attracted to you because of your dominance. pg 133-135


Because science.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> *I think* much of Athol's material originates from the 'Rational Male' which was a collection of blogs that later the author put out in book format. But he did a good job crafting it towards a more marriage orientation, whereas Rational Male is more geared toward single men.


Instead of speculating, you could read the dedication he wrote in the book where he describes how much he hearts TAM for giving him all of this material.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > I definitely read the book and that is what I got from it.
> ...


The wimmenz doth protest too much, methinks.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > MMSLP: When a wife asks that you bring her flowers, it is a “**** test.” You should always answer “no” to these **** tests. In the short term she will be upset, but then she will feel happy and more attracted to you because of your dominance. pg 133-135
> ...


Asking for flowers is an initial **** test. When you comply, she will initially be happy but then say she wants you to bring flowers without her having to ask. It’s an ever escalating series of **** tests. You need to answer “no” to each test. This shows your high value, which ultimately turns her on because they’re attracted to high value men. (Supposedly.)


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I’ve purchased the Kindle versions of many of the books recommended here. I’m going to read them all. I appreciate the suggestions.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Y'all are completely off base here. 

If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't bring them just because she asked. 
If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't not bring them just because she asked.

You should bring flowers if you are moved to do so for whatever reason is meaningful to you. That's the power of being your own person... of being your own man. 

If you don't bring 'em just because she asked, you're still letting her dictate your actions. It's like losing your temper at your three year old (not that I'm comparing a wife to a three year old); that you're doing (or not doing) what you do just because of a provocation by someone else, you have sacrificed your self either way. 

**** test? Maybe. But it's silly to just assume that's what it is no matter what. Maybe it's just a reminder you haven't been romantic. Maybe it's just an honest (gulp! not honesty from a woman!) expression of a need to feel appreciated. If you think that doubling down on that neglect is what's going to keep a quality woman interested, you do so at your own peril. Or maybe you just like being married to a lap dog who will be loyal no matter what you do.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Y'all are completely off base here.
> 
> If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't bring them just because she asked.
> If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't not bring them just because she asked.
> ...


Well, the whole point of flowers is spontaneity. If she says to bring her flowers there is no spontaneity nor thoughtfullness behind it. You are just the butler holding flowers.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Y'all are completely off base here.
> 
> If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't bring them just because she asked.
> If she asks for flowers, you shouldn't not bring them just because she asked.
> ...


Also, about ten hundred bazillion of us women have loved men who never brought us flowers.

A. Because we can buy our own flowers. They are just flowers.

B. Because we love men for reasons other than fluff and gifts.

C. Because we are concerned about more important things than flowers, like real estate and children.

D. Because some of us don't even like cut flowers.

Now, that is not to say some of us might not love to get flowers and will even feel a little glow about her man if he does bring them. But I have never in my life complained to any man who did not bring me flowers, nor ask any man to bring me any, nor give a **** one way or the other.

In fact, the last time a man did buy me flowers, it was because he wanted me to put them on my desk at work to "prove" I had a boyfriend because he was jealous and worried that I was acting "like a single person". And after the flowers were dead, he asked for the vase back! :rofl:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Also, about ten hundred bazillion of us women have loved men who never brought us flowers.
> 
> A. Because we can buy our own flowers. They are just flowers.
> 
> ...


Okay, so your stories are cracking me up as well as your analysis!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > Y'all are completely off base here.
> ...


What I've found with flowers is that some guys buy them and others don't , and you will know under which category they fall almost immediately. 

My ex gave me flowers less than 10 times in our 23 year relationship. In the 12 months I've been single, I have gotten 8 bouquets of flowers from the guys I have dated. Those guys liked giving them. Ex...not so much and that was okay by me because he never gave them to me as a reward for good behavior. Im not a dog that can be trained with treats.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> In the 12 months I've been single, I have gotten *8 bouquets of flowers* from the guys I have dated.


That's crazy! These guys were bringing them on first dates?? I'm not sure what I would think about that. Flowers on a first date seems weird to me. Or even a 2nd or 3rd. I would almost feel like, are you trying to pressure me into liking you? 

And I say that simply because although I love flowers, they do not "mean anything" to me about men.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> "As I've said before you're the Captain and she the First Officer.


It took me too long to figure out this is REALLY REALLY important to my generally independent (not using the f word) wife. She doesn’t do well if I’m not leading. Of course that’s just her, YMMV. 

We’ve always called the dynamic surgeon/nurse (who can work in close without getting her tits in the way, reference from our fav movie).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> It took me too long to figure out this is REALLY REALLY important to my generally independent (not using the f word) wife. She doesn’t do well if I’m not leading. Of course that’s just her, YMMV.
> 
> We’ve always called the dynamic surgeon/nurse (who can work in close without getting her tits in the way, reference from our fav movie).


And there are many, many women like this. But there are also books that help people suss out and work with this dynamic which don't also call women hypergamous *****s. In fact, there are thousands of books on how to be a dom to your sub, books for both the dom and the sub. 

MMSL is not one of them.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Lila said:


> What I've found with flowers is that some guys buy them and others don't , and you will know under which category they fall almost immediately.
> 
> My ex gave me flowers less than 10 times in our 23 year relationship. In the 12 months I've been single, I have gotten 8 bouquets of flowers from the guys I have dated. Those guys liked giving them. Ex...not so much and that was okay by me because he never gave them to me as a reward for good behavior. Im not a dog that can be trained with treats.


Yes,
There was another point I wanted to make, and @faithfulwife kind of alluded to it for me.

It's best to have a wife who isn't going to for fishing for flowers in the first place, either because that's not how she gets her validation/not how she measures the health of the marriage, or because her husband makes her feel loved to a degree that flowers at a particular time aren't necessary to prove anything. That whole line of thinking just reinforces my point that dude should by flowers if he's moved to do so.... and if he's in tune with his partner, he'll know when, or even if, that's a good thing to do in the first place.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> MMSL is not one of them.


You're kinda vague, how do REALLY feel about it?

I've read it, some of it worked, some of it didn't.....for me.

Athol Kay doesn't refer to hypergamous women as *****es, if he mentions them at all.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> You're kinda vague, how do REALLY feel about it?
> 
> I've read it, some of it worked, some of it didn't.....for me.
> 
> Athol Kay doesn't refer to hypergamous women as *****es, if he mentions them at all.


Yes actually he does. Oh wait, my bad, he calls them ****s usually.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Hey Craig, when you get to the part where the author calls hypergamous women *****es or ****s, or whatever, let me know the page number, I can't seem to find it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Here's a great blog post (sarcasm) by Mr. MMSL about how to play tricks on your wife and make her think you are leaving her, because you will get more *****. Classic!

Destabilizing Your Relationship For Fun And ***** | Married Man Sex Life

And here is a really sweet one (barf) about how your wife is not a good wife unless she ****s properly. 

Your Wife?s AAAAAF Report Card (The ?F? is for Sex) | Married Man Sex Life


Not to mention...I read MMSL and Athol does not actually believe in love. He does not talk about love. Love is not a factor in any of his marriage advice. It is all about gaming your wife so she will **** you. 

Now I guess for some men who just can't feel love at all or whatever like Athol, that would work.

But most women do expect to love and be loved.

Somehow Athol is going to explain to all of the sad husbands in the world about how to get more sex from their wives without love even being part of the equation.

But hey! If that works for you.....


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Here's a great blog post (sarcasm) by Mr. MMSL about how to play tricks on your wife and make her think you are leaving her, because you will get more *****. Classic!
> 
> Destabilizing Your Relationship For Fun And ***** | Married Man Sex Life
> 
> ...


And when you really get down to it, just getting sex, if that's what you're after, is relatively easy. 

Now getting, and more importantly, maintaining love; that can be a real challenge.... and like any challenge, it also carries far greater rewards. 

Books about getting laid are a dime a dozen. Books that actually help sustain meaningful relationships, now those are valuable.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > In the 12 months I've been single, I have gotten *8 bouquets of flowers* from the guys I have dated.
> ...


August has given me 4 but I've known him since... Well August. Big country (may he rest in peace) had some sent to my house. And then one each from a couple other guys I dated a few times. I took it as sweet gestures. Heck, I hadn't gotten any in years. It's feast or famine sista. I'm enjoying the feast


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Books about getting laid are a dime a dozen.


True, and many are useless tripe, and very few have value. However, there are concepts in MMSL that do have value. 

Love is of supreme importance, agreed.

But, you don't have to be on TAM long to see threads where both men and women say their marriages are great, loving, best friends, etc.....but lacks sex. For them, or the men in particular, MMSL might help.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> True, and many are useless tripe, and very few have value. However, there are concepts in MMSL that do have value.
> 
> Love is of supreme importance, agreed.
> 
> But, you don't have to be on TAM long to see threads where both men and women say their marriages are great, loving, best friends, etc.....but lacks sex. For them, or the men in particular, MMSL might help.


The problem I have, having read the book, is that if the techniques do result in more sex, they can only do it at the expense of the core/love/respect in the relationship. 

Everything in life is a tradeoff. That's one that doesn't appeal to me. I'm sure for many men, it's perfectly fine.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Everything in life is a tradeoff.


Sure, possibly.

Like I said, some stuff worked, some didn't.

For example. One of the things I took away from the book was the concept of the random, extended hug. Normally, when we depart it's a quick smack and one second hug. One day I just didn't release. Sure as ****, after 20 seconds or so, she melted. Can't remember if I laid pipe that evening or not, but there was a feeling of enhanced intimacy.......with no perceptible tradeoff.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OnTheFly said:


> Sure, possibly.
> 
> Like I said, some stuff worked, some didn't.
> 
> For example. One of the things I took away from the book was the concept of the random, extended hug. Normally, when we depart it's a quick smack and one second hug. One day I just didn't release. Sure as ****, after 20 seconds or so, she melted. Can't remember if I laid pipe that evening or not, but there was a feeling of enhanced intimacy.......with no perceptible tradeoff.


WOW! This stuff is in books like almost a formula?


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

The Joy of Cocking?

Cooking! Cooking! I meant Cocking!

The Joy of Cooking, dammit!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

AandM said:


> The Joy of Cocking?
> 
> Cooking! Cooking! I meant Cocking!
> 
> The Joy of Cooking, dammit!


I’d buy that one. The cocking one, of course.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> Sure, possibly.
> 
> Like I said, some stuff worked, some didn't.
> 
> For example. One of the things I took away from the book was the concept of the random, extended hug. Normally, when we depart it's a quick smack and one second hug. One day I just didn't release. Sure as ****, after 20 seconds or so, she melted. Can't remember if I laid pipe that evening or not, but there was a feeling of enhanced intimacy.......with no perceptible tradeoff.


And I didnt need a book to tell me that. I've been a practitioner of the random extended hug for decades. Thing is, it was never a tactic, but rather a spontaneous expression of genuine affection.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> ....but rather a spontaneous expression of genuine affection.


yeah, it is for me now too, but I needed to be let in on the secret.

I don't view it as a tactic, but a concept, or tool.

MMSL wasn't the only source I consulted. Other books and content sources had useful helps, some worked, some didn't. 

See the theme?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> yeah, it is for me now too, but I needed to be let in on the secret.
> 
> I don't view it as a tactic, but a concept, or tool.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm all for studying a variety of sources and picking the best from each.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yeah, I'm all for studying a variety of sources and picking the best from each.


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

I just started listening to "His needs, her needs" on audiobook, and as a woman who just ended a 6 year relationship with no regrets...I totally agree with most all the advice offered in this book...


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