# Seperated from my wife and kids, I need help/advice (Long post)



## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

First a little about me, this is my first post and I found this site the other day looking for answers at work. 

I'm 32 and my wife and I have been married for nearly 6 years. We have been together for almost 8. We have two beautiful daughters that we both love unconditionally and we are both active duty military.

I recently returned from a deployment oversees to a wife that had withdrawn emotionally from me. We spent a lot of time together and with the kids and we had sex quite a few times also in that first week but I could tell something was wrong. I texted her something on my birthday (June 14) and like always added at the end that I loved her. She replied back and didn’t tell me that she loved me back. I called her and asked her what was wrong because she never does that. She responded with an email that stated that she had been unhappy for years and that it took her deployment last year and my deployment this year to realize that she was becoming more of herself again and that she thought she didn’t need me anymore, that she could be happier on her own. She also told me she loved me but dint have those "in love" feelings anymore, no spark. Of course I was devastated and agreed that if that was what she wanted I couldn’t stop her.

Back to the current situation in a bit but I wanted to give some background of our relationship. We had our first child within a year of meeting and being both on active duty, life was rough to say the least but we knew we loved each other before we found out we were pregnant. Like most couples we had our share of fighting and arguing, trying to change one another to make it easier instead of working as a team on our problems and being there for each other. This only got worse and worse. I was unhappy but content and optimistic that everything would work out because I love my family so much. On the other hand, my wife holds stuff inside and represses emotion. It took these deployments for her to realize how unhappy she had been and that she wanted out.

So after the email on my birthday my wife came home and we talked for awhile. I finally asked what she wanted and she said she didn’t know. Then I asked if she wanted a divorce from me. She immediately started crying and then after what seemed like an eternity she shook her head yes. I asked if there was any chance of us staying together and she cried again and shook her head no. Surprisingly enough I keep my emotions in check, took off my ring and set it down on the coffee table. I told her everything would be alright and we would do everything to make sure the kids were our number one priority. I packed some things and moved into my brother's house.

After a few days I realized that I could never leave my wife without at least fighting for it to work. You guys can probably guess what came next. The constant crying, begging, pleading, rationalizing and all the rest. She finally told me to come back home and that we needed to go slow and see where it would lead. She told me that she wouldn’t commit to anything and we would take it day by day. She said she didn’t know what she wanted. On one hand she feels like she can be herself and be happy on her own even though she loves me very much. On the other hand she said that she can't see herself with anybody else and couldn’t imagine me not sharing a life with her, confusing right?

During the next 10 days or so we had our ups and downs. I would break down emotionally trying to understand if she was warming back up to me or not. Some days were great, some days we talked and laughed and generally enjoyed one another's company, like we used to. I thanked God for the good days and just struggled through the bad ones. During our talks, she still asserted that her feelings hadn’t changed but I figured I would just keep working at it and convince her myself on what path she would take. We didn’t have sex during any of this but she would let me hold her at night or give her a hug or kiss, sometimes when it became too much on her she would give me a hug or tell me she loved me. Finally I decided that this wasn’t working and decided to move back out on a more long-term basis to give her space to think and decide what she wants.

I have been at my brother's house for over two weeks now. I told my wife when I left that I wanted to be apart but not grow apart, so i suggested that we go to lunch occasionally, have dinner with the kids and spend time with each other and the kids on the weekends. I didn’t pressure her into when any of this would happen, I only told her she was in the driver’s seat and when she felt comfortable to let me know. 

Well, the last two weeks have been a nightmare for me but we have had our good days. We went to lunch on a whim last week and I spent Saturday with my family just doing normal everyday stuff. I was really upset the night before and I went over to the house that morning and found a very receptive wife willing to talk to me. Instead of begging and pleading, I only explained what I was feeling. I even mentioned how lonely and horny I was, felt like an idiot when that came out but couldn’t help myself. She said that she missed me and that she too was lonely and horny. We ended up have sex. Afterwards she asked if I wanted to spend the day and of course I said yes. She left the house later to go to the store and I ended up taking a nap with my oldest daughter on the couch. When she got home, she immediately sat down and told me that she wanted to start doing all of those things that I suggested but no more sex which I understand can complicate things. I was ecstatic. I cooked lunch and grilled steaks for dinner and it was a good day. I asked her later if she regretted the sex and she said no. We also talked again on Tuesday night and like all of our talks during this process it was relaxed and calm. After the talk, she gave me a hug and said that it was a good talk and that she thought we were making progress.

I started reading online articles and stuff on this site to figure out what I should do. Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff I was reading that related to my situation made me feel as if she was, had or tried to have a physical or emotional affair. Yesterday I confronted her about it and she swore up and down and promised that none were the case. She had been cheated on by her ex-husband and I have very strong morals and convictions against cheating in any form. That was one of the things we valued about each other. So we have a lot of trust in this area but since this all came out I am having some trust issues because it’s hard for me to understand why this is happening so suddenly, so I felt the urge to ask and I believe her. I know it was a mistake asking but she said it didn’t set us back any and even asked if I wanted to go to lunch. 

Lunch turned into a 2 hour conversation about what’s going on and it ended with her telling me that she is done right now but she might change her mind. She said she wants and loves me but she can’t have me right now. So I told her that I would back off further, I suggested that we can take this time to work on ourselves with some space and individual counseling and try to work on ourselves and that when we did that we could work toward being friends again. Whatever happens, being friends will ultimately be the best thing for us both.

I don't know what to do; I'm sticking with doing a 180 because I know that I have to make myself happy before I can make her happy. If it's not meant to be then this 180 will make me a better person and make the divorce easier. I started this with her after our talk yesterday and she has since called me 5 times and texted me 4 times about nothing at all. I picked up the girls from school yesterday because the wife was at an appointment. When she got home I said bye to the girls and said bye to her. She was teary eyed and I knew she wanted to talk or see some feelings out of me but I just waved and left. It was the hardest thing I've done up to this point because I wanted nothing more than to give her a hug and tell her we could do this or that everything would be alright but she needed me to leave to realize what she is missing. Since I started this novel she has called me once to talk about nothing and then even texted me saying that all of this is starting to catch up to her and that she is an emotional mess.

She says she loves me. She says he misses me. She says she is lonely. She says everything that would make you think she will come back to me and even went as far as to say that I’ve been perfect since I’ve been home and she sees the change in me to make this a better marriage. She also sees that what and who I have been since I’ve been home isn’t to win her back but to genuinely be a better person for the both of us.

I am asking for any advice on what I should/shouldn’t do from people that have gone through this before. My ultimate goal is to reconcile with my wife because I believe we have a deep enough bond to work through our issues with a marriage counselor and learn to love each other again. I believe if we can make it through this that it will be something beautiful and my wife has expressed the same thing.

Thanks for indulging this lengthy post and for any comments you guys/gals can make to help.

Lynn


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## frigginlost (Oct 5, 2011)

Buddy, what you have done, and are doing is perfect.

Your head is exactly where it needs to be right now. Continue to 180 and work on yourself. In reading your post your wife seems to be where every one of our wifes/ex-wifes have been; In limbo... but, she is/has stated that she wants out. Leave it at that right now. 

Love your kids just as you are doing, and let your wife go through her emotional hell she is in. Go through yours as well.

There is no saying that R will not happen, but don't look for it. Looking for it will cause you to take steps backwards with your own feelings.

You're doing great. Keep it up!


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

I am starting to realize that whatever happens is not my choice but that I can do things to make her think about what is actually going on. I start my first IC session on Friday and I'm actually looking forward to it. I want to be happy again with or without her but hopefully with her.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

sounds like you're doing the right things. 180 is a great way to focus on yourself and make you better. my only advice to you at this point is try not to read into or over analyze everything she says/does while she's in this confused state. it will make you go crazy.
it sounds like maybe part of the problem may have been while your back to back deployments possibly? if she was gone for a long period and then you left for a long period, that ammount of time may have cause too much distance between you, and you may need a fresh start. try dating your wife and reconnecting with her.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> sounds like you're doing the right things. 180 is a great way to focus on yourself and make you better. my only advice to you at this point is try not to read into or over analyze everything she says/does while she's in this confused state. it will make you go crazy.
> it sounds like maybe part of the problem may have been while your back to back deployments possibly? if she was gone for a long period and then you left for a long period, that ammount of time may have cause too much distance between you, and you may need a fresh start. try dating your wife and reconnecting with her.


We might have to reconnect and start dating again but I feel like the time apart wasn't a disconnect as much as it was a realization for her. We have gone on one date but that was early on and she said she felt uncomfortable even though I felt like it was going good, as soon as it was over she went out to the bar with her friends.

I am getting better at not reading to much into her thoughts/emotions but it is hard to not talk to her. She also came up with an excuse to see me today, to drop off some paperwork I need to sign. At first she wanted to come over to my brother's house tonight to do it because him and his wife have to sign it too. Now she wants to drop it off at my office today and for me to take it to my brother's, I guess I'll let her but I think it's because she wants to see me and possibly talk.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Update:

Well, I broke my 180 this morning. My wife came by to pick up some paperwork from my office and I felt the need to comfort her over some issues not related to our current situation.

We have a mutual friend that we have known for the last 10 years and we were talking last night about some issues the W is having with suppresing emotions and re-living the past and she brought up that the W had been sexually assaulted as a teenager. I never knew this and it broke my heart. All I wanted to do last night was to call her and tell her I was so sory that that had happened to her, I really felt the need to comfort her. Our mutual friend said that the W had been dealing with it for years and that there was nothing I could do about it anyway.

Well, I still broke down when she came in this morning and I asked her about it. She said it really wasnt that big of a deal and that she has mostly forgotten about it and it wasn't a reason on how she feels about her past. She thanked me for talking to her and I was surprised that she didnt get defensive and that she opened up to talk about it.

I know I broke my 180 by doing this, hopefully it doesnt affect too much

Lynn


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, I have decided to go ahead and make my first thread into a blog to get out all the emotions that I am going through right now. I think it will help to get this out and in the open, if only for my own sanity. I will always appreciate and welcome input and thoughts you guys have. 

I am currently about 5 weeks past the divorce conversation. I still have my ups and downs but I'm feeling better almost daily about the situation because I know I will be alright one day.

I really don't think we are making any progress and if we are I can't see it. She seems to care about how I feel and checks up on me everyday, nothing big, I think she just wants to gauge where I am emotionally because she does geniunely care how I feel and doesnt want to see me hurt. She is not emotionally detatched from me, just scared and confused. She told me last week though that she wants me but can't have me right now but in the same conversation she also said that I am the only person she can see herself with and can't imagine a life without me. She also said she was giving me attention so I wouldn't breakdown but I actually feel better because I think that any contact she gives me will be because she wants to and not because she feels like she is obligated to. I told her I would step back even further and give her more space, so the MC and frequent get togethers will cease until she decides if she wants to or not. She has made efforts to be friendly through texts/email, just not over the phone or face to face yet.

I started the 180 about a week ago and for the most part I have stuck to my guns. I started the process of working on myself and since last week, started on chantix to stop smoking, planned a small vacation by myself to see a friend and went to my first IC session.

I always feel alot better about the situation after reading different views from all of you guys. This site is really keeping me stable and today at least, I feel like whatever happens I can deal with it.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

you sound like you're starting to heal and get over the initial shock. that's really really good.
what helped me the most was 180 and nc. for me, the constant wondering about the next contact was stressful. we initially had contact several days a week but this always felt strained. he seemed distant, i was still sad and desparate. i definitely think he did it out of guilt. the space and time alone helped me get my head on straight, and he has since told me he loves me and misses me.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Lulu, how long have you been going through this?


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Lulu, how long have you been going through this?


3 months. it's been a real roller coaster ride.
i wrote in my journal today how the separation has been a double edged sword. i feel so much stronger and more confident in myself because of this, but of course i don't know if R is possible. i'm not sure if love is enough anymore.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> 3 months. it's been a real roller coaster ride.
> i wrote in my journal today how the separation has been a double edged sword. i feel so much stronger and more confident in myself because of this, but of course i don't know if R is possible. i'm not sure if love is enough anymore.


I'm sorry you're going through this. I feel like it will all work out the way it is supposed to and for you and me both, we will be better people in the long run. It's just so confusing right now. Like my W came by my office to drop off some paperwork and noticed I wasn't wearing my ring. She asked me about it later and I told her that I have to take it off in order to do my job sometimes and that I forgot to put it back on. Just the fact she was thinking that I might be moving on gives me hope. She also told me that while this is going on that even though she doesnt want this marriage right now, she might not feel that way in the future and then she told me that if I'm in a situation with another woman that I please not give into temptation. Again, makes me think that she is thinking about a future together and doesnt want me to do anything that could ruin it.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

i'm sorry we are too! but you know what? it's all a part of our journey and we'll end up better people in the end. do you get the feeling that she's going through a mid life crisis? my therapist said people even in their 20's and 30's can have a mlc.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> i'm sorry we are too! but you know what? it's all a part of our journey and we'll end up better people in the end. do you get the feeling that she's going through a mid life crisis? my therapist said people even in their 20's and 30's can have a mlc.


Actually I do, she has made comments about not having a single life. She was married at 18, divorced at 21 and we started dating a few months later, she will be 29 this year and she has been wanting to just get away since ive been home. I can understand but why throw away a marriage. How bad can a MLC be if she wants a divorce, from the standpoint of us reconcilling?


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Actually I do, she has made comments about not having a single life. She was married at 18, divorced at 21 and we started dating a few months later, she will be 29 this year and she has been wanting to just get away since ive been home. I can understand but why throw away a marriage. How bad can a MLC be if she wants a divorce, from the standpoint of us reconcilling?


my story is much the same. chad was in a 5 year relationship (she cheated) for 5 years (high school sweetheart) we started dating a year later. guess what? he's 29. i wonder if it's the approach of another age decade, like "i'm almost 30, what am i doing with my life? is this really it?" kinda thoughts? i'm not saying it's ok, but i saw real torture and confusion in his eyes when this all started. when i saw him yesterday after a month of nc, he seemed at ease and happy to see me for the first time since he left. i'm not getting my hopes up, and i'm keeping a strong front if not a slight indifference.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> my story is much the same. chad was in a 5 year relationship (she cheated) for 5 years (high school sweetheart) we started dating a year later. guess what? he's 29. i wonder if it's the approach of another age decade, like "i'm almost 30, what am i doing with my life? is this really it?" kinda thoughts? i'm not saying it's ok, but i saw real torture and confusion in his eyes when this all started. when i saw him yesterday after a month of nc, he seemed at ease and happy to see me for the first time since he left. i'm not getting my hopes up, and i'm keeping a strong front if not a slight indifference.


Yeah, my wifes ex cheated on her too and she ended it immediately. I have a feeling she is going through something similar to what you are describing. She puts on a happy face but I can tell its tearing her up and she has said as much. I hear you about the slight indifference. Sometimes I feel like I dont care and I just want her to make up her mind up and just let me go but then I realize I dont want anything but her and the kids. I have been strong on the 180 but it sometimes feels like that is making her happier, probably not though. Could she be pulling a reverse 180 on me? Oh well, day by day and we'll see what happens. Just got to work on myself, have patience and give her space.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

Sex abuse victims have real difficulty with emotions.

They get "stuck" at the emotional age they were when the abuse happened and it takes real heavy lifting during individual counseling for them to get past those roadblocks.

Has your wife been to counseling?

(I'd be shocked if you said yes)

I'll let you answer this question first. But, my overall take is that you are being too nice and accommodating.

You won't nice her out of this.

Last but not least, you need to confirm there isn't anyone else. What you should do about this is different if another man is in her life than if there isn't.

Be forewarned, if she is involved with someone else, there will be no brownie points for "trusting her". That simply makes you a sap. She has given you every indication that something else is on her mind - other than your relationship. You need to find out what it is.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Yeah, my wifes ex cheated on her too and she ended it immediately. I have a feeling she is going through something similar to what you are describing. She puts on a happy face but I can tell its tearing her up and she has said as much. I hear you about the slight indifference. Sometimes I feel like I dont care and I just want her to make up her mind up and just let me go but then I realize I dont want anything but her and the kids. I have been strong on the 180 but it sometimes feels like that is making her happier, probably not though. Could she be pulling a reverse 180 on me? Oh well, day by day and we'll see what happens. Just got to work on myself, have patience and give her space.


i can't say it enough, i know exactly how you feel. we're in the same boat. just keep rowing!


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Sex abuse victims have real difficulty with emotions.
> 
> ...


Yes the W has been in counseling for the last couple of years, she also attended church for awhile too. I asked why and she said she was in a rut and was trying to find something or find herself. Between the relationship stressing her out and everyday life I felt like she was having a breakdown but she has come back to the light and thinks that she would be happier on her own.

And you are right Conrad, I have been to nice and accommodating. I have been alot better with it the last week or so and won't give her much. I'm there for her when she geniunely needs me but I do not intitiate any contact. She intitiates it all and so far it has been daily. It started with stuff about the kids or finances or things that we have a mutual connection with but the last few days it has been more of a friendly "Hi, how you doing", concern for me over a recent job change and asking me about IC. I know it is small but she also "liked" a couple of pictures on facebook of us in happier times. It means, for last night at least that she was thinking of us. But I will not get my hopes up and backslide because today may be a day that she is completely happy on her own.

As far as cheating, I have brought it up and she just looked hurt that I would ask and told me as much. We have always had that if anything in our marriage, complete trust. If she is and I don't know it, it is a dealbreaker and even if she wanted to R then I wouldn't anymore. She knows this too but in my gut I feel as if she isnt cheating. I feel as if she just wants to see what it is like to be alone. I touched on it with an earlier post to lulubelle that she never had the chance to do what myself and all of our friends had early in her adult life and she has told me that too. She has been going out since I have been home but it has been with married couples/individuals and friends that I know. She has been open and honest about what she does and where she does it. If that is the case I do not have any reservations about her doing that. 

Thanks Conrad for your input. Ive seen alot of your comments and you are somebody that tells it straight.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> i can't say it enough, i know exactly how you feel. we're in the same boat. just keep rowing!


I'm rowing! Day by day, I am getting stronger. I hope tomorrow goes well for you. We are here for you, just like you are here for us.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Last night was torture. I went out with my brother for awhile, I wasn't upset but not happy either. Sleeping was the bad part though. 

Dreamed about being divorced and then about getting back together. Neither dream was bad, I felt content in both but when I woke up reality set in and I couldn't go back to sleep. Woke up early and just got up for work. 

Today hasn't been bad, I just feel indifferent. Wife IM'd me about problems with the laptop. It had shut down on me over the weekend while she was out of town and it's not working right. IDK why she asked me, she always goes to her computer saavy dad for that kind of advice. At the end of the IM she said "sorry to bother you". I'm not going to try to overanalyze what that meant. I think she feels me pulling back and she is coming up with small excuses to talk to me. I felt an immediate sense of anxiety when she IM'd me because I was kind of hoping that she wouldn't try to contact me today. I sense a "talk" coming up. We have talked throughout this whole thing and we have been nothing but cordial towards each other but she has not really intiated a conversation about us. 

On a good note, by next week I should be smoke free. I've quit for 6 months in 2010 and for a year between July 2011-2012. This time I think I can do it for the last time and get this monkey off my back.:smthumbup:

I also started seeing my counselor twice a week because I really need someone to talk to me more. My first session felt like it was 5 minutes. I hope I can get some things out of it for myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

If you don't want to get divorced, the less contact you have with her, the more she will want you.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> If you don't want to get divorced, the less contact you have with her, the more she will want you.


All I told her was to call her dad and try to do a system restore. She went on about running the anti-virus, doing a system restore and saving all the pictures to the exteranl hard drive. Then she asked if I needed anything saved. I told her "nope". 

I do not initiate any contact anymore and my responses to her are short and to the point.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

So, the last few days have been pretty good for me. I'm laughing and smiling at work more often and starting to enjoy convo's with my co-workers. I still have my ups/downs but the longer this goes on the more I feel like no matter what I can be happy again.

The wife pulled a fast one on me yesterday. She had my oldest daughter call me on their way home and we talked about her field tip at school and then as if it was scripted, my daughter said they were grilling burgers tomorrow and asked if I wanted to come over. I asked if Mommy wanted me to and she said she did. I asked for a time and didn't get one. 

I feel as if she is using me seeing the kids as an excuse to see me but I feel kinda used knowing that she put my daughter up to it. I didnt get a time and deperately want to see my kids. Should I ask my wife when to come over or make her ask me since I am pretty hard 180 on her right now? If I don't go, it will seem like I dont want to have anything to do with the kids, which I do. But if I ask her, I feel like I will be giving in.

Thoughts? I really am starting to learn new behavoirs and this is hard to gauge on what to do.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, the weekend didn't go very well. I went over to dinner Thursday and everything went well, alot of small talk, shared some laughs and smiles. I also told her that I had to start thinking of my future and started my own checking account to start saving money for a new place. She said it was fair and that I had to protect myself. I also told her that I was moving on but that I wouldn't give up until I knew it was over for sure and that I would still give her her space and be there when she needed me. 

Friday she wanted me to go to the school carnival with our daughters, we went and everything was fine there too. Just some small talk. Friday night I figured I would unwind and drink a little, well that turned into a late night phone call which was pretty bad, its was emotional, not angry. I just wanted to try and figure out why this was happening. It was a mistake, I called her a coward. I regretted it so bad that when I woke up I went to the house to apologize and tell her I meant what I said, because it is how I feel but that I shouldn't go about it like that and that I would stop drinking because it just clouds my judgment. I hardly drink but I have been lately to sleep and try to forget. I know it isn't healthy and I am working on it. 

During that conversation the next morning she gave me a letter that she had wrote a few days prior. She basically said that she still couldn't make up her mind and that she knew it was killing me so she say she was letting me go. She told me that she loved and missed me and that when she sent me the texts last weekend when she was out of town at a concert, it was because she missed me and she was thinking about me. She said she might be making the biggest mistake of her life a couple of times and still says she cannot imagine a life without me in it but still cannot make a deciscion. She told me how great of a father I am and how great of a person I am and that she knows I am a better person now and that I will make someone very happy someday but she can't see herself as that person right now. She is letting go, she is destroying her feelings for me. I also said I felt uncomfortable wearing my ring for now and decided to take it off and put it on my keyring, she said that if I wasnt wearing mine she wasn't wearing her's. I asked her why she was still wearing her's and she said the same thing I did, that it was because she still has hope. I regret that, now she might really move on.

I watched the girls on Saturday so she could do some volunteer work that day and when I got back over there we made some small talk and she gave me a hug and left. When she got back we taked some more and shared some more small talk and laughs. I felt very confident and left when I felt it appropriate, maybe like 15-20 minutes later after we tucked the girls into bed.

On Sunday she had some more volunteer work to do before my Nephew's birthday party. We made small talk again before she left and at the birthday party. It all seemed comfortable and easy, not pressured and awkward. Then she had to go to cheerleading registration and texted me a few times while she was gone to tell me how much of a waste of time it was and how hot it was in there because the A/C was broke. She was thinking about me again when she had nothing else to think about, I know I shouldn't hope but it is something. She also called me on her way home to tell me that our oldest daughter pulled her tooth out on the way home. Then she texted me a couple of times about it. Just small talk and jokes.

Then she found the letter I wrote on Sunday while she was gone. I basically told her that I was letting her go too. I told her that I apologize for all the things I did and all the things I didnt do. I told her that everything happens for a reason and that she would always hold a place in my heart. I told her I wasn't begging or pleading or trying to pressure her, I was just a little more at ease with what was going on and that I needed to get it off of my chest. It was kind of a closure letter. I needed to tell her how much I cared about her and that if she wanted a divorce I was fine with that and wouldn't fight her on it because I believe that if that will make her happy and she is confident that is what she wants I couldn't keep her anymore. I told her that I believed in my heart and soul that we have to strong of a bond and that we could make it work but we needed to just be friends right now and work on ourselves.

I'm starting to let go. I still have hope but it is fading. The letter made me feel better and I haven't heard from her since she got it. I am still heartbroken but I will continue my version of the 180 and give her time to make her choice. I will be there for her when she needs me and I will engage in small talk but it will still be up to her to intiate. I busted my 180 bad this weekend but I started it again Saturday morning when I came over to watch the girls and I feel confident sticking to it.

Next step is getting my own place and move out of my brother's. It will make it more real for the both of us and maybe we can both think a little more clearly on what we want. 

I am still profoundly sad because I feel that it is ending but I know that time will heal and I have to be a better person for me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn

I think you did everything you could. And sadly your wife wants to be on her own to get back the "single" years she missed.

Well guess what, you are more mature than your wife. She missed those years, they are gone and she can never get them back.

And you know what else, she is making the biggest mistake of her life.

But you cannot stop her from making this mistake.

She needs to get her ass kicked and learn a valuable lesson.

Go see an attorney to protect yourself. Your D can be amicable.

And move on so you can be happy....

HM64


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lynn
> 
> I think you did everything you could. And sadly your wife wants to be on her own to get back the "single" years she missed.
> 
> ...


I know I cannot stop her but I have to have hope that I can help her realize what she may miss out on in an indirect way (180). I will continue to move on with my life and be there for my girls. I will continue to give her the time and space she needs right now and let her decide what she wants to do. I will continue to fight for what I believe can be a beautiful marriage. We are very cordial towards each other right now, so if/when the divorce happens we have already decided/discussed being civil towards one another. I can move on and be happy without a divorce right now, you just never know what could happen. Thanks for the input!


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, since the letter on Sunday she has called twice about finances, nothing more. I have also felt more disconnected and a little more at ease even though she hasn't responded. I don't think I want her to respond, I want her to really think about it and keep it to herself. Finally been sleeping good the last few nights without anything to help me sleep. I think I may be turning a corner but if the last 7 weeks have proved anything, it's that feelings can change pretty quick. 

I just pray for inner peace and happiness in whatever happens.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, I went over to the house on Wednesday to pick up my new debit card and some other things and to see my girls. I talked with my W about finances and how we needed to go about it in the future with me looking for an apartment. I went over in detail how it was going to work and how it would be fair. She didn't argue about any of it because it is fair. She did break down a few times but I was upbeat and confident. I played with the kids and just felt good. 

It was kinda weird that I could feel upbeat around my W while she is looking seriously stressed out and emotional, she said this is really starting to wear her down and said before I left that she still doesnt know what she wants to do yet. Funny thing is when she said how bad this is messing with her, I asked why she looks so happy on facebook with pictures and posts and she said it was a front because she doesnt want anybody to know how bad this is on her.

I have been pretty upbeat since the Saturday morning convo. I'm actually getting excited about moving into my own place and I think it is the next step to me moving on, hopefully with but maybe without her, I still have hope. 

She has gone just about full NC with me which is good because if i don't see her or talk to her I can find a little peace even though I'm still a wreck. I think she is finally starting to realize what all of this will mean in either situation and she is taking a step back to figure it out.

Yesterday was the first day since I have been home from my deployment that she hasn't tried to contact me. She was probably not going to on Wednesday either but I showed up anyway. Kinda torn up but can't do anything about it right?

I think she is starting to see me moving on and she is starting to realize what the future could bring. She has posted some interesting things on facebook the last two nights.

1. Wednesday night right after I left. " It is funny how the choices we make can often leave you lonelier than you have ever been"

2. Last night after we had not communicated all day. " To often we don't realize what we have until it is gone. Too often we're too stubborn to say "Sorry, I was wrong". Too often it seems we hurt the ones closest to our hearts and we let the most foolish things tear us apart".

I didn't bite on either and even though I don't want to analyze what she meant by either I find it hard not to. She knows I am fully commited to making this work and have it be a better marriage so I do not think the posts were directed at me but rather she is letting me know in an indirect kind of way how she feels.

What do you guys think?

Well, no plans fo the weekend and that feels good. I will be watching the girls tonight for a couple of hours while the W is at work. Maybe I'll go to the Sturgis motorcycle rally and check it out or maybe I will just be lazy and read a boook. Also might stop at Books a Million and see if they have Divorce Busters.

Input from the TAM community is always welcomed! How do guys think this situation is going?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, I watched my youngest daughter on Saturday while my wife took the oldest to a cheerleading camp. When she came to pick my youngest up I asked my oldest daughter if she wanted to stay the afternoon and that night with me. My W said that they were going to a babysitters so she could DD for some of her friends from work to go out and celebrate their recent promotions. I was furious but didn't say anything. I am still their dad and she wasn't even gonna ask if I would watch them ot that she was going out but she wanted this so it is none of my buisness what she does. 

Fast forward to last night. My W called and asked if I could watch the dog on wednesday night. I asked why and she said that she got invited by her co-workers to go a concert. I asked who was watching the girls and again she arranged a babysitter. I put my foot down and said no, that I was still their dada and I would watch them over someone I don't even know. I asked her why she wouldn't ask me and she said it was because she felt like she was using me so she could go out. I didnt say much more and hung up. I got upset about it after awhile and gave it some time and called her back to voice my concerns over her recent behavoir of always wanting to go out and being distant from the kids, not yelling/sceaming/anger, just a calm discussion on my view of her recent actions. It really does feel like she feels trapped and just wants to get away. She is always doing volunteer work or taking the kids somewheres or going out with friends.

Later on after the phone call she messaged me on facebook and apologized for getting angry and frustrated. She said that she understands where I am coming from and that i just want the best for my kids while we are in this situation. We went back and forth and I finally asked if she felt comfortable calling me. She did almost immediately.

The phone call went into how I felt about her behavior lately and how it might be affecting the kids. She agreed, my oldest has told us both that she knows mommy and daddy are broken up and my youngest has been asking about me and having more accidents than usual with her potty training. W said it was killing her to be in the house because it is still "our" house and just needed to keep herself busy while she is trying to figure out what she wants. I have not had her open up like this since D-day happened. She really seemed willing to and wanted to talk and open up. We didnt talk long but I told her I understood why she felt the need to get away and live like a single person. She immedialtely got upset, not mad, when I said that. She said that she wasnt single, she was still married. I didn't say what I wanted to and I let her go on. She talked about how lonely she is and how much she misses me. She talked about the house being nothing but memories of all of us together as a family and that being home doesn't feel right. I talked too about how I'm feeling but not about where we go from here, I left that open-ended. 

She also said that awhile back when I mentioned that she may be having an MLC or she might be a WAW that she was insulted by it. When I said it, she said that she would look it up and see what it meant. I explained in a nutshell what it meant and took her silence about it as her agreeing with me to a certain extent. Now I really want to send her this article:

_What’s going on when a long-married women suddenly announces she wants to divorce and her husband is caught utterly off guard? This is one of the more common scenarios that I experience as a marriage counselor and it has been referred to as the “walk-away wife syndrome.” It will be helpful to shed some light upon what has happened leading up to this crisis moment.
The wife is often the one who feels responsible for checking the emotional pulse of the marriage. If she feels like they are not connecting or spending enough time together she will voice her concern to her husband. If he responds, then she will be happy again and life will go on. But if he does not respond, she will gradually increase the frequency and intensity of her pleadings. She will go about getting his attention the best way she knows how–but her efforts only make him more distant. She perhaps doesn’t understand how fundamental differences in the way men and women think can appear to be problems of the heart and she may simply not be aware of numerous effective techniques for getting him to respond in the way that she desires. As her frustration grows, her complaints gradually expand to include, well, everything: his ability to provide for the family, his parenting, his love making and even his personality. The more she tries to get his attention–and the more he feels criticized–the more he distances emotionally.
If this continues unabated, eventually she decides she can no longer live the rest of her life like this. So she devises an exit strategy. This may take several months or even years to execute. She may go back to school so she can earn more money. She may decide to wait for their youngest child to finish school. She may wait until she meets another man. Whatever her strategy entails, she will typically stop complaining as she moves forward with her plans. Her husband, of course, interprets this absence of complaints as, “everything is okay again.”
Fast forward… Suddenly the big day arrives when she tells him that she’s going to divorce him. He can’t believe it. He even says, “I didn’t even know you were so unhappy.” This seals the deal for her–all of this time together and he didn’t even know she was unhappy? This is usually the very first time that she takes real action concerning the marriage. Before now it has all been talking. Unlike talking, action gets his attention because action is a man’s language. Now it becomes real for him. And almost immediately he responds by contacting a counselor, reading self-help books on marriage, attending seminars, and he even begins talking to other guys about his relationship and getting their advice. He starts doing absolutely everything he can think of to win his wife back.
Unfortunately, for her it’s all just too little, too late. Nothing he does changes the way she feels or gives her sufficient reason to have a change of heart. She thinks his sudden efforts are all just for show and if she were to take him back, he would quickly revert to his old ways. But in reality, he has realized exactly how much he has to lose and how terrible losing it would be. This isn’t just an act or temporary change. He is truly a changed man with new priorities. He has finally become the man she wanted all along!
For a woman reading this and finding similarities with her own relationship, I would encourage you to not give up–especially now when you are so close to achieving your original goal. If you leave now, your husband will very possibly become an affectionate and attentive second husband to his next wife–all courtesy of your costly investment. The changes he is making are real and you are the one who deserves to benefit from them. Consider also that if you leave and remarry you may have to repeat this entire painful process all over again with another man. But this time, with countless added complications such as step parents, divorce lawyers, child support, and visitation. Why not refocus on putting this marriage back together and learning a few of the techniques that are more effective at getting your husband to respond the way you want. I have watched many couples pull their marriage out of this nose dive at the last minute and go on to fall in love all over again.
I also want to give you something to reflect on. Perhaps the greatest obstacle to reconciling is an attitude of righteousness. This is where one partner is viewed as generous, understanding, long-suffering, reasonable, wise, sensitive, and justified, while the other partner is viewed as their polar opposite. Sometimes both partners arrive at my office sharing this attitude–both agree the woman is in the right and the man has failed. But this attitude can prevent her from forgiving and moving forward. Not to mention the attitude is probably inaccurate. It’s just not that simple. Very often, the seemingly “obvious” solution to fix a relational problem doesn’t work or even backfires. But instead of concluding that particular solution is flawed and trying other approaches, we just assume the worst about our partner. Repeat this for several years and you get exactly where you guys are now. You just didn’t know that other less obvious solutions–even counterintuitive ones–might have quickly fixed your problems at the outset. I’ve observed the best outcomes happen when both partners share responsibility for the marriage getting off track, forgive one another, and agree to start over fresh._

I sent this to a friend of mine and she was floored by it. She said that if she had read this and worked on it with different resources she might still be in a realtionship with her last BF. She said that I should def send it but I don't want to push as I am still modified 180 on her. Depending on her mood, it could be a step in the right direction or it could backfire as me trying to be controlling or trying to manipulate her feelings.

Thoughts/comments please.

Thanks TAM, 

Lynn


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Great info Lynn.

Thanks for sharing it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> _
> The wife is often the one who feels responsible for checking the emotional pulse of the marriage. If she feels like they are not connecting or spending enough time together she will voice her concern to her husband. If he responds, then she will be happy again and life will go on. But if he does not respond, she will gradually increase the frequency and intensity of her pleadings. She will go about getting his attention the best way she knows how–but her efforts only make him more distant. She perhaps doesn’t understand how fundamental differences in the way men and women think can appear to be problems of the heart and she may simply not be aware of numerous effective techniques for getting him to respond in the way that she desires. As her frustration grows, her complaints gradually expand to include, well, everything: his ability to provide for the family, his parenting, his love making and even his personality. The more she tries to get his attention–and the more he feels criticized–the more he distances emotionally._


Have you ever heard the term "fitness testing?"


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Have you ever heard the term "fitness testing?"


I've heard it mentioned on here many times, kind of like s*** testing. Trying to get me to react to her actions to see where things stand.

It just seems like I am making her happier by giving her all this space and time. Don't know how long I can put up with it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I've heard it mentioned on here many times, kind of like s*** testing. Trying to get me to react to her actions to see where things stand.
> 
> It just seems like I am making her happier by giving her all this space and time. Don't know how long I can put up with it.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


Conrad, I didnt even need to read any of the comments, she is fitness testing me and I will not bite on any of it. In guess the 180 is working. I understand what the 180 is for and I'm getting to the point where I care less and less about if it works out or not. It is still frustrating but I am careful to not let her see anything from me but happy/strong/confident/moving on. I am taking more control of myself but it is gonna take time, I know that. She posted on FB this morning that her heart was hurting this morning and she doesnt now why and she is looking towards better days. Fitness test right? I'm not biting, I will however go smoke a cig. If I am not understanding this or going about it wrong, please advise. I do need help and support for whatever path I take.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

What I heard you say before is that you are "making her happier by giving her all this space"... almost immediately followed by a FB status that sounds none too happy.

Would you agree?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> What I heard you say before is that you are "making her happier by giving her all this space"... almost immediately followed by a FB status that sounds none too happy.
> 
> Would you agree?


I would agree. It's hard to judge emotion over text but her post seemed positive even though she seemed to be hurting a little. I am probably over analyzing. She is only doing it for me and no one else, I know that. But I still haven't and will not bite on FB posts. At this point she doesn't deserve it and niether do I, if she wants this marriage she will have to stop playing the little games and come to me and then I will lay out my demands.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Time to rant;

So we had the child care thing worked out for the concert. She called this morning and told me not to worry about taking care of the dog and that she would bring me the things I needed to take care of the girls overnight since she will be at the concert. I asked why it was a big deal with the dog since she would be home later that night and she finally told me that she was staying at the married couples house after the concert out of convience and that she didn't want the dog home all night. That was the reason she was gonna let the girls stay there also. I couldn't help it and told her that her behavoir is odd lately, 2x4 me, I was mad that after all these years it feels like I barely know this person anymore. She used to call me from the grocery store to find out what brand of mayo to buy! She really just wants to do whatever she wants at this point. She justs wants to be single, not in a find a new husband/BF kind of way, just in a "I have to get away from the stresses in my life (kids/husband)" kind of way. A friend of hers told me that it seems she just wants the best of both worlds and is confused. Then she sends this email;

_Look,

I am not trying to make this difficult. We are all supposed to meet at Y's b/c she is our DD and she is close to base. I will not have time tonight to run home after I get off and change and get ready so that was the reasoning. We are trying to make the ride as smooth as possible b/c I spent a lot of time on Saturday driving people around to their different houses and with that being said, it is easier for me to just stay in her spare room. The girls were originally going to be staying there with me (her hubby was only going to watch them while we were gone and I would be getting up with them). so it wasn't like they were staying there and I wasn't. I do not want rocco to be neglected and well I think this is good for him. He will have another dog to play with tonight and I do not see the harm in it and then tomorrow after work I will take him home with us. You were getting upset even though you were trying to play it off. You do care. I am no different than I ever was but things are different with you and I and I do not like asking you for anything. This is my choice for our current situation so I feel as though I just need to do what I need to do. I am not doing anything wrong. Nothing. I am going to be with Y and S tonight. I do not see the harm in any of this. So please, stop judging me. _

She has control of her life it seems and now I care less and less but I still care some. I am really getting to the point I don't think this is worth it anymore but I'm still attached. Today I want it to be over and just move on and just not see or talk to her for some time. I sent this response;

_You are right, at this point it is not my business what you do even though I feel as though it should be. It will pass in time. Not judging, just confused about who you are becoming. Don't get mad at me because I still care._

At this point, even though I shouldn't engage with her like this, my emotions get the better of me and I respond like this. And as I type this, she calls and asks if I need anything from the house since she is coming by my work to drop of the stuff for the kids. I am now looking forward to getting my apartment and living for myself and my girls.

Why does s*** like this happen, why can't two mature people just sit down and decide what is best? Why do I have to be dragged through the mud? Why can't she just make up her damn mind? I am not a patient person, I will not wait forever and I am well on my way to moving on, I still want my marriage to work but with her actions the last few weeks, I want it less and less everyday. Do I give up? Do I hold out? I wonder where my breaking point is. She has done nothing but push me away all the while saying "I don't know". What a cop out. 

End rant.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

Do you think you are dealing with logical intellect here or emotions?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Do you think you are dealing with logical intellect here or emotions?


Both and that is what sucks, I want to move on but it's hard right now. I am still not completely detached, just partially.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Both and that is what sucks, I want to move on but it's hard right now. I am still not completely detached, just partially.


Stay @50,000 feet.

Keep observing.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Stay @50,000 feet.
> 
> Keep observing.


Hard 180, keep my mouth shut and listen and only talk to her about the kids and finances right? I'm getting there. 

Conrad, in your personal opinion after reading my thread, where do you see this ending?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Hard 180, keep my mouth shut and listen and only talk to her about the kids and finances right? I'm getting there.
> 
> Conrad, in your personal opinion after reading my thread, where do you see this ending?


I see you detaching. Once she realizes you're doing it - and you're serious - then she has a decision to make.

It's sad she cannot see her way clear to make that decision now. It would be far less risky for her this way.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I see you detaching. Once she realizes you're doing it - and you're serious - then she has a decision to make.
> 
> It's sad she cannot see her way clear to make that decision now. It would be far less risky for her this way.


It is less risky and I feel she is immature for doing it. And as sad as it is, she is the one who is making me detach but I am regardless. I just hope that I don't become bitter and give up to soon.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> It is less risky and I feel she is immature for doing it. And as sad as it is, she is the one who is making me detach but I am regardless. I just hope that I don't become bitter and give up to soon.


She's letting you know who she is.

(P.S. She's not the stuff of your delusions)

Is it possible for you to accept this "real" version of her?

To - perhaps - detach without becoming bitter and resentful (because that's not really detached...)


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's letting you know who she is.
> 
> (P.S. She's not the stuff of your delusions)
> 
> ...


Being bitter is not detachment but I will get over that to, I find it hard to hold on to any emotion for to long, if it comes down to that. 

I really think if I was still in her life that the things she has been doing would be fun to do with her. But with her doing these things without me takes some getting used to.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Being bitter is not detachment but I will get over that to, I find it hard to hold on to any emotion for to long, if it comes down to that.
> 
> I really think if I was still in her life that the things she has been doing would be fun to do with her. But with her doing these things without me takes some getting used to.


What are you pursuing for yourself while this is going on?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Being bitter is not detachment but I will get over that to, I find it hard to hold on to any emotion for to long, if it comes down to that.
> 
> I really think if I was still in her life that the things she has been doing would be fun to do with her. But with her doing these things without me takes some getting used to.


But her doing these things without you is her choice.

So go do a few things without her and see how it feels.

And if you like it and you feel your head is clear then make the decision to R or D.

If she does not want to R the choice is easy then because you have no choice.

Make your own decisions but give it time.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

It appears she's slowly but steadily moving away from you and establishing a new lifestyle, a new pattern, new activities, responsibilities, etc, and she's trying to find a way to effectively deal with you given that you still tend to be rather emotional at times even though you're doing a fairly good job of covering for it.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing anything in her actions that indicates a wish to reconcile, only regrets that her life didn't work out as planned and she's gotta start all over again, and it's a hassle.

It doesn't sound like she misses you so much as she is feeling the old "broken dreams" syndrome, when the life you thought you had seems to go up in smoke and you're left picking up the pieces, all the more difficult with youngsters around who you both want to protect as much as possible from colateral damage.

You are trying to implement the 180, doing an "ok" job at keeping your distance but still sending strong messages to your wife that you want her back and you're reading between the lines looking for signs of hope. That really has to stop. 

Stop reading her FB, stop talking to her about anything other than things about finances or the kids and setting up schedules. Leave out about how you feel, or how she feels and all that.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What are you pursuing for yourself while this is going on?


Re-establishing a good relationship with my brother and his family. Going to alot of IC, twice a week for a month now to figure out why I am where I am and how not to ever be here again. I neglected nurturing any form of friendships with anyone because I was so wrapped up in family life. So I am to the point of wanting to meet people and try to step out of my comfort zone and try new things. I also started working out and I'm trying to stop smoking. I started reading Divorce Busters last night, I got that and Divorce Remedy from a used bookstore, guess I should keep up with those.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> But her doing these things without you is her choice.
> 
> So go do a few things without her and see how it feels.
> 
> ...


All true and I will give it time, I just don't have a timeframe.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

kindi said:


> It appears she's slowly but steadily moving away from you and establishing a new lifestyle, a new pattern, new activities, responsibilities, etc, and she's trying to find a way to effectively deal with you given that you still tend to be rather emotional at times even though you're doing a fairly good job of covering for it.
> 
> I'm sorry but I'm not seeing anything in her actions that indicates a wish to reconcile, only regrets that her life didn't work out as planned and she's gotta start all over again, and it's a hassle.
> 
> ...


The more she distances herself the more I go 180 on her, at this point, not to get her back but just because I am so numb and tired of all this that I really don't want to see/talk to her. I would have be fine if she had not called me and just let me do what was planned. I feel better on days we don't communicate. 

I am considering blocking her facebook but I don't think I will. I think I will just delete my login, keep my profile and just not look at it, I'm not very active on it anyway. She is a FB junkie. 

It's hard not to try to read between the lines but I do have to stop. I just want it to end, one way or another. I can be fine at this point with either choice (with demands for MC, ect. if R is her choice). I just hate the limbo. I have already started making a life for myself (apartment soon and new bank acct.), I am excited to a certain point about being whoever I want and not needing anything from anybody but it is hard, time will heal all. It will get better.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Re-establishing a good relationship with my brother and his family. Going to alot of IC, twice a week for a month now to figure out why I am where I am and how not to ever be here again. I neglected nurturing any form of friendships with anyone because I was so wrapped up in family life. So I am to the point of wanting to meet people and try to step out of my comfort zone and try new things. I also started working out and I'm trying to stop smoking. I started reading Divorce Busters last night, I got that and Divorce Remedy from a used bookstore, guess I should keep up with those.


Many women say they want a dedicated family man.

Yet, where men aren't able to "give enough" because they want their wife as their best friend, those efforts often end up with her losing respect for him as a result.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Many women say they want a dedicated family man.
> 
> Yet, where men aren't able to "give enough" because they want their wife as their best friend, those efforts often end up with her losing respect for him as a result.


It's an unfourtunate and easy trap to fall in. The last time I did talk to her I told her thank you, because I feel as if I have woken up and will be a better person for it. She even had the nerve to tell me how much I have changed for the better since I returned from my deployment and that she can't believe her walls haven't fallen. She also said I will make someone very happy someday. F*** her, if she doesn't want to be that person. 

Ah, bitterness, my old friend. There you are. Time to pick my head up and keep walking that long road. All will be well, it's just hard to see that right now.

I feel for my kids the most though, splitting time with me and a person who doesn't seem to care to be around them that much, maybe she will be better when she only gets them half the time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Wish I had a nickel for every whiny post I've seen from a guy about how he dotes on her by pushing vacuums and doing dishes.

There isn't a man in the world that EVER increased his attractiveness to his woman by how well he can push a vacuum.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Wish I had a nickel for every whiny post I've seen from a guy about how he dotes on her by pushing vacuums and doing dishes.
> 
> There isn't a man in the world that EVER increased his attractiveness to his woman by how well he can push a vacuum.


Unfortunately for me I am a neat freak and she is a slob. I went to the house for something last week after not being there for awhile and it looked like an episode of hoarders. I called her to ask when she was getting home and the first thing she asked was if I had been in the house yet. I said yeah and she went on about being busy and whatnot, I just told her it was her problem now and I honestly didnt care. That kinda felt good and something that she took for granted.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

I found out how to unsubscribe from her Facebook posts. Not having the temptation to look at how "happy" she is feels good. 

Now I can look at it without seeing her posts, I am glad that I am not that big of a FB junkie as alot of people nowadays.

Am I moving on?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I found out how to unsubscribe from her Facebook posts. Not having the temptation to look at how "happy" she is feels good.
> 
> Now I can look at it without seeing her posts, I am glad that I am not that big of a FB junkie as alot of people nowadays.
> 
> Am I moving on?


It's a step in the right direction.

Not needing our approval will be another step


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's a step in the right direction.
> 
> Not needing our approval will be another step


:smthumbup:


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Spent last Thursday having one hell of a pity party, don't know why. Jack Daniels and sad country music were my friends for the night. I was doing great the last few days. Oh well, woke up Friday looking forward to having my girls the next night. Took them to dinner and watched a movie. The next day we went to the park, actually had a lot of fun with my girls, I love them so much. 

The W and I were supposed to do the budget but she didn't have any of it ready so she said we could do it Sunday. We ended up talking about the situation (started by me, I know, I know), well she said a few things that stuck out. For one, part of the convo included talk of the apartment and she said she didn't know how to feel about it. Second, she mentioned how much she misses me and how lonely she is. She talked about all the things I did wrong, ect. I validated and stayed fairly quiet. She is still mad about alot of things that made me feel like crap when she said them and she is just now starting to vent.

I went to the motorcycle rally in Sturgis for a little while Saturday afternoon and decided the only place I wanted to be was at home with my family so I went home. My W looked at me like I was crazy and asked what was wrong. I said this is my house too and I wanted to see my girls and just watch TV. She seemed relieved and quietly excited for me to show up. At one point I told her that I would be putting in the app for the apartment on Tuesday and asked her how she felt about it and she said she wanted me to wait a few weeks, that she didn't like the idea of going down that road yet. Then I told her since we have partly emotionally stabilized and that since the money would be tight that I may just move back home within the next month or so and that she would just have to deal with it. No clear answer from her but the way she responded I felt as though she thought by that time it wouldn't be a bad idea.

I also gave her the article I had posted earlier in the thread and she didn't say much more than that it made sense in our situation. Well since she read that she asked me to stay the night that night. She sat real close to me on the couch and said she was lonley for me and wanted me with her, she said that it didn't change anything and no sex. I stayed. We spooned and just fell asleep. I could have died that night and been happy. For the first time in 2 months she was receptive to our physical intimacy. I asked her if she wanted to take the girls to the park the next day and she said it would be fine. When I got up she was still asleep, so I kissed her cheek and left. Later she told me she hadn't slept that good in weeks. Yesterday before I came over I called her and told her we would either go to lunch or dinner and asked which would work better and she said both, we went to lunch and then I grilled some chicken. When I left I asked if she had a good time or if it was awkward, she said it was a good day. She also asked for a couple of hugs this weekend, nothing long but she buried herself in my arms and let herself go for the briefest of moments.

She got a little snippy with me over something about the laptop and the OS but I told her I wasnt going to be treated like that and walked out, later she apologized.

She also mentioned that this may be another start or a new beginning twice. I didn't show her anything, only saying that I agree with her that I feel like this is a new relationship. Right before I went to sleep she texted me and said "thanks for a good day". I told her thanks for spending time with me and the girls and that I was glad I could make her sleep that well.

Well, this morning she had found a two day marriage retreat that she wants us to go to. She isn't totally different but since she read that article, she is very active with me and positive things about us, not a whole lot but more than this all started.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You're still talking too much.

She will interpret silence as strength.

Use it.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You're still talking too much.
> 
> She will interpret silence as strength.
> 
> Use it.


So hard of a habit to break, I'm trying but still have my moments of weakness. 

I have always been the talker, it's her turn, I know.

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. I know and I don't now what to do at the same time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> So hard of a habit to break, I'm trying but still have my moments of weakness.
> 
> I have always been the talker, it's her turn, I know.
> 
> This is the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. I know and I don't now what to do at the same time.


Read the last 2 pages of Locke's thread.

He's on it now.

Follow his lead.

Also, take note of what she's saying to him.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And stop having pity parties for yourself.

When you feel a funk do something to get out of it.

I am glad you walked back in to the house.

When you make actions/statements like that you are sending her "Alpha" signals to her brain.

Be strong, act strong and speak strong.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Read the last 2 pages of Locke's thread.
> 
> He's on it now.
> 
> ...


Will do, Thanks Conrad


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> And stop having pity parties for yourself.
> 
> When you feel a funk do something to get out of it.
> 
> ...


Pity parties suck but I guess I have to purge once and awhile, they are getting few and far betwwen now though.

I'm glad too, I just walked in and told her what I was going to do. She didn't put up a fight or anything, she actually looked and acted like she had been waiting on something like that.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, I started reading Divorce Remedy tonight. Read the first 100 pages. Is there a difference between it and Divorce Busters, or is an upgraded version? Really makes sense so far but is in contradiction to my 180 to a point in our relationship because of her recent action over the past few days. Feels like I should engage with her a little but not to much. Actually when I was reading my W sent me the pic to the marriage retreat flyer and I engaged in some small talk with her but ended it after a couple of texts telling her I had to do some homework. Actually it was an assigment in DR but I didnt tell her that!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

Keep this in mind.

If SHE is initiating something constructive, there is absolutely no problem with engaging and building.

If her initiation involves blame, dumping anger, or other attention-seeking victim triangle behavior, you know what to do.

And, you do know the difference.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Keep this in mind.
> 
> ...


I do know the difference, it did feel pretty good just to chat a bit about it and the things we would be doing. She was really engaged in it but I didn't go to far. When I told her I had "homework" to do I didn't get a response. I kinda chuckled about that because I know she was pissed I would dismiss her like that.

Everything for the retreat is set up, including babysitter. Next question. My W is a social butterfly. My co-worker and his wife will be going also. My W is decent friends with his W. I want to set some boundries for that weekend. First, I don't think it would be unreasonable considering the point of the retreat for me to ask her to not engage in any activities with them while she should be focusing on us, of course after the day is over we could spend some time with them. Second, she is a Facebook fanatic. I also want to ask her that we should both leave our phones in the room while we are doing this. I don't think either boundry would be unreasonable because the point of this is to spend time together and maybe come away with something. 

My only expectation for this is to have fun. I don't think anything else will come from it, if it does it will be a bonus.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I do know the difference, it did feel pretty good just to chat a bit about it and the things we would be doing. She was really engaged in it but I didn't go to far. When I told her I had "homework" to do I didn't get a response. I kinda chuckled about that because I know she was pissed I would dismiss her like that.
> 
> Everything for the retreat is set up, including babysitter. Next question. My W is a social butterfly. My co-worker and his wife will be going also. My W is decent friends with his W. I want to set some boundries for that weekend. First, I don't think it would be unreasonable considering the point of the retreat for me to ask her to not engage in any activities with them while she should be focusing on us, of course after the day is over we could spend some time with them. Second, she is a Facebook fanatic. I also want to ask her that we should both leave our phones in the room while we are doing this. I don't think either boundry would be unreasonable because the point of this is to spend time together and maybe come away with something.
> 
> My only expectation for this is to have fun. I don't think anything else will come from it, if it does it will be a bonus.


I'm ok with going on this retreat.

I'm not ok with the primary goal being socializing, whether it be in person or on-line.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I'm ok with going on this retreat.
> 
> I'm not ok with the primary goal being socializing, whether it be in person or on-line.


Perfect, I will wait for her to bring it up again and tell her that. I want her back but it will be with commitments from us both. She asked for this retreat even though she said " I feel like I should give you a second chance, but I am not making any commitments, I am still on this fence but this might be good".
She still wants the control but knows I am gaining mine back. I wanted to just scream at her that she should be giving "us" a second chance but I know what she is doing, so I let it go and didn't respond. She wanted the divorce/seperation. If she wants what she has been asking for the last 4 days it will be mutually agreed upon. I will not let her dictate my life or emotions.

It's funny, a couple of weeks ago, if she had brought up everything she has lately, my anxiety would be through the roof, now I don't get my hopes up and have no expectations. I just go with the flow, enjoy what I can and keep moving on for myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Perfect, I will wait for her to bring it up again and tell her that. I want her back but it will be with commitments from us both. She asked for this retreat even though she said " I feel like I should give you a second chance, but I am not making any commitments, I am still on this fence but this might be good".
> She still wants the control but knows I am gaining mine back. I wanted to just scream at her that she should be giving "us" a second chance but I know what she is doing, so I let it go and didn't respond. She wanted the divorce/seperation. If she wants what she has been asking for the last 4 days it will be mutually agreed upon. I will not let her dictate my life or emotions.
> 
> It's funny, a couple of weeks ago, if she had brought up everything she has lately, my anxiety would be through the roof, now I don't get my hopes up and have no expectations. I just go with the flow, enjoy what I can and keep moving on for myself.


When you start to feel that familiar tightness in your chest (in response to an unreasonable request or activity), you remain dispassionate or emotionless and say, "I'm not ok with XXXX"

She can argue all she wants. You nod your head and agree that her position is righteous and that she thinks you're controlling, whatever. When she thinks she's one that battle and asks you for submission to her point of view, you say, "I hear everything you said,", but I'm still not ok with it.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

_Hey, on Friday, Y wants to take her daughter to the fair b/c the ride bands are discounted if you bring some sort of pepsi products to be donated… anyways, she wanted to know if I wanted to take the girls. I know H would like it, but don’t know if E would… so would you mind either watching her for a few hours while I take H or I mean, we could all go together. I know you don’t ride rides. lol_

Got this email from the wife, I want to go and I think she wants me to, I need a way to respond that doesnt sound desperate or ****y. Conrad?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> _Hey, on Friday, Y wants to take her daughter to the fair b/c the ride bands are discounted if you bring some sort of pepsi products to be donated… anyways, she wanted to know if I wanted to take the girls. I know H would like it, but don’t know if E would… so would you mind either watching her for a few hours while I take H or I mean, we could all go together. I know you don’t ride rides. lol_
> 
> Got this email from the wife, I want to go and I think she wants me to, I need a way to respond that doesnt sound desperate or ****y. Conrad?


Give me a little background.

E is your younger daughter?

Y is her friend?

And, you really don't like amusement parks?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Give me a little background.
> 
> E is your younger daughter?
> 
> ...


E is my youngest.

Y is my W's friend and I like amusement parks, just not rollercoasters but if I go I think I may ride one to see if my feelings have changed!


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, she knows I don't like rollercoasters but invited me anyway, she is showing an attempt at spending time together. I think I will respond with something like "Yeah, I wouldn't mind going, it might be fun". Hell, I don't know.:scratchhead:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> E is my youngest.
> 
> Y is my W's friend and I like amusement parks, just not rollercoasters but if I go I think I may ride one to see if my feelings have changed!


Sounds like a good opportunity.

Since she's invited you, I would send back something like this.

"I've likely got some old flat pepsi here somewhere. I'll dig it out and make you a deal. In celebration of my new outlook, I'll ride anything you ride. Count on it."


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like a good opportunity.
> 
> Since she's invited you, I would send back something like this.
> 
> "I've likely got some old flat pepsi here somewhere. I'll dig it out and make you a deal. In celebration of my new outlook, I'll ride anything you ride. Count on it."


She knows better, she knows I wouldn't say anything like that. Maybe I'll put in there what I said on the last post and add, hell, I might even ride a coaster!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> She knows better, she knows I wouldn't say anything like that. Maybe I'll put in there what I said on the last post and add, hell, I might even ride a coaster!


You do know that humor and lightheartedness are attractive.

It's an opportunity to lead.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You do know that humor and lightheartedness are attractive.
> 
> It's an opportunity to lead.


_Yeah, I wouldn't mind going and I'll ride anything you will!_

How about this, It's geniune and takes me out of my comfort zone, same old, same old didn't work for years might as well man up and try something I don't like.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> _Yeah, I wouldn't mind going and I'll ride anything you will!_
> 
> How about this, It's geniune and takes me out of my comfort zone, same old, same old didn't work for years might as well man up and try something I don't like.


I like it.

You could even say it, "I'll go and will ride anything you're not too chicken to try."


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I like it.


_Yeah, I wouldn't mind going, hell I might even ride a coaster or something!_

I went with this in case I do chicken out on a ride but it will be something she doesn't expect. It's an answer I can honestly give and feel good about without being fake. Thanks Conrad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> _Yeah, I wouldn't mind going, hell I might even ride a coaster or something!_
> 
> I went with this in case I do chicken out on a ride but it will be something she doesn't expect. It's an answer I can honestly give and feel good about without being fake. Thanks Conrad.


No problem bro.

We're all in this together.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> No problem bro.
> 
> We're all in this together.


I know and thanks again.

I know my response is a little weak but I have a major fear of anything mechanical beacause you never know. It is something she won't expect though which is good and I can feel good about it also, win-win.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn,

Do not feel bad or un Alpha about roller coasters.

I have done the following:

Sky Dived
Military Jump Rating (Day & Night)
Soaring 
Single/Multi Engine Rated
Backseat in a F-15E and RightSeat in a FB-111 (showing my age now)
Drove 2 Porsches over a 170mph when I was a young idiot.

*But I hate coasters. Been on a few but I absolutely hate them.*

My 10 year old niece has more balls than me when it comes t these rides.

Go figure. My wife laughs at me when we go to any amusement park. She says I have control issues.

But hanging onto the wife and squeezing her on the ride might be good therapy for both of you

Just do not puke on her.:rofl:

Have a good time.

HM64


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Do not feel bad or un Alpha about roller coasters.
> 
> ...


Thanks HM, I will probably ride one, just for me. The last time I was on one was with the W and it was a kids one. I had an anxiety attack doing it. It's funny I have a sport quad that I jump, ride wheelies, do donuts and all kinds of other crazy stuff but coasters get me!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean.

Just go and have a good time with your family.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, my Dad slipped into a deep clinical depression with severe anxiety about 2 1/2 yeras ago. I talked to him about twice a year until I got home from my deployment in June. He has broken out of most of it on his own and is now for the first time in three years planning to travel here to see the grandchildren.

He knew something was going on with the W and I and called last night to confirm his suspicions. Talking was no good because he is the reason I am overbearing and controlling. I learned how to be a husband from him and it is why I am where I am at right now. I do not blame him, nor do I use it as an excuse any longer for the way I will be doing things for myself, the people around me and my wife. After talking for two hours and with me being completely honest about what is going on he said that from the actions that the W has been taking like she has the past 5 days is great and he has no doubt we will work this out. I told him nothing is set in stone and that I will have my doubts for a long time. 

My good mood from the last few days is gone this morning. I slept good but dreamed about fighting with my wife over this situation like I would used to fight with her about anything else. Trying to out yell her and doing everything I could to for her to see my POV. I woke up feeling sick that even in my dream I could be like that. 

One another note, anybody who reads this blog can get an idea of what I'm feeling and I chronicle my wife's actions as I see them, not my interpretations of them at least I hope not. What is she doing right now? Is this the beginnings of a R? Is this an attempt at just being friends, so we can get along well when we D? Could this be a false R? 

While at cheerleading pratice with my oldest D she kept texting me and I kept it up for awhile and even added a compliment that my D is like my W and that she would break out of her shell and be a confident/outgoing person beacause my D was kind od shy and scared doing this new thing. She also sent me a picture of her official photo for work. I couldn't help it and said it was beautiful. I also made a joke about how this time her uniform wasn't messed up like last time, she laughed. IDK:scratchhead:


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> I know exactly what you mean.
> 
> Just go and have a good time with your family.


Thanks HM! And no puking, got it. I've never really been one to get sick over anything.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Interesting read about your Dad. I am glad for both of you that he is working out his issues.

Just be positive. It is not easy but you need to be positive, stay focused and have a clear goal in mind.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

This feels like I am trying to date her again. I give her her space because we aren't together but I do think about her because I desire her. I feel like I have options but she is the one I am most interested in. I don't really look forward to the next contact but I am glad to get it when I do. Should I continue with the compliments when she intiates contact, I feel as if i should because I want to but I want to keep it at a minimum and a little light. My humor is coming back too and she sees it. It's like a big F****** game. I don't like games like this but I am playing nonetheless. FML, for today at least.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Interesting read about your Dad. I am glad for both of you that he is working out his issues.
> 
> Just be positive. It is not easy but you need to be positive, stay focused and have a clear goal in mind.


I am glad he is working it out, for awhile it was almost like I didn't have a Dad.

And I have a plan, work on myself for me and my wife. Sounds easy but this is getting complicated. I went back and forth with Conrad yesterday on how to respond to an invite to the fair, how stupid is that?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> This feels like I am trying to date her again. I give her her space because we aren't together but I do think about her because I desire her. I feel like I have options but she is the one I am most interested in. I don't really look forward to the next contact but I am glad to get it when I do. Should I continue with the compliments when she intiates contact, I feel as if i should because I want to but I want to keep it at a minimum and a little light. My humor is coming back too and she sees it. It's like a big F****** game. I don't like games like this but I am playing nonetheless. FML, for today at least.


I know you feel it is like a game but I do not think your wife sees it that way.

I think she wants to fall in love with you again but is fearful at the same time.

So do not treat it as a game.

If you love her and desire her keep showing her that you do.

When you really think about it what choice do you really have?

I say keep wooing her but in a way that is casual or not too aggressive.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> I know you feel it is like a game but I do not think your wife sees it that way.
> 
> I think she wants to fall in love with you again but is fearful at the same time.
> 
> ...


You desribed exactly how I want to approach this right now. It's just that with reading the 180, if I start trying to win her back now, is it to soon, has she had enough time to miss and apprciate what she had and let go? Could I set myself up for failure? Is she controlling the situation and trying to get me to jump? D-day was 2 months ago. I know timelines are irrelevent in everybodies case. That's why IDK. I think I will keep it it light and continue to take her up on her offers to go do stuff. No expectations, have fun and see what happens. It truly is like the first time we met but with no alcohol.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

The more you feel comfortable in your own skin, the more your humor will make itself available to you.

The old saying "laughter is the best medicine" is really the truth.

Go with it - and look for it.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> The more you feel comfortable in your own skin, the more your humor will make itself available to you.
> 
> ...


I'm coming back around to it. That was my best quality, quick wit, humor and sarcasm. My W always laughed at/with me. That is what I need back. I'm slowly getting there. It is the part of my personality that everybody loves.

I just have to stop averanalyzing the current situation. I have to take it for what it is and just try to relax. She is engaging me, it's time for me to start to engage her a little bit more. I'm gonna let her makes the moves though, she knows how I feel and she wouldn't do or say these things at this point unless she wanted too.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I'm coming back around to it. That was my best quality, quick wit, humor and sarcasm. My W always laughed at/with me. That is what I need back. I'm slowly getting there. It is the part of my personality that everybody loves.
> 
> I just have to stop averanalyzing the current situation. I have to take it for what it is and just try to relax. She is engaging me, it's time for me to start to engage her a little bit more. I'm gonna let her makes the moves though, she knows how I feel and she wouldn't do or say these things at this point unless she wanted too.


No reason for fear or analysis paralysis.

Also - no reason to smother.

Let her ask for more. She will. I'm confident.


----------



## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> No reason for fear or analysis paralysis.
> 
> Also - no reason to smother.
> 
> Let her ask for more. She will. I'm confident.


I think the more time we spend together or with the kids the more I can let go of these feelings and just start to enjoy her again. It might take awhile but I am comfortable with her, it will come.

She will ask for more. I think this is the start of something as she alluded to over this past weekend but like with dating I have to realize it could end as quick as it starts. Then I will have to pick myself up, 180 and try again and again and again until we know for sure what our future holds.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

and Lynn nothing you do with Conrad is silly or stupid.

You are trying to avoid mistakes.

but do not feel as if you are walking on eggshells. you are not.

And Conrad is right again. Use humor. Everyone likes and needs to laugh.

That is why I am happy. I laugh all the time. Sometimes at the worst times as well. But it is just what i do. 

It takes alot to get me down or mad. You be the same.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> and Lynn nothing you do with Conrad is silly or stupid.
> 
> You are trying to avoid mistakes.
> 
> ...


HM, humor is my secret weapon, always has been. Time to break it out, sharpen it up and start swinging. 

I know it isn't stupid to ask advice, thats why I do it. It just feels funny when I don't have the answers to everything. I have never been like this before.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Honest, unforceful, natural compliments because I feel they are warrented and to make her laugh. Thats how I got her, time to do it again.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> HM, humor is my secret weapon, always has been. Time to break it out, sharpen it up and start swinging.
> 
> I know it isn't stupid to ask advice, thats why I do it. It just feels funny when I don't have the answers to everything. I have never been like this before.


Which among us has been?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Which among us has been?


I know.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I know.


No place for pride in the "Going Through Separation and Divorce" sub forum


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> No place for pride in the "Going Through Separation and Divorce" sub forum


Another thing I am learning about myself. Forgetting my stubbornness and pride and realizing I can lean on people for help. That is why I am here. I need help.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, might have made a mistake. W called and asked what I was doing tomorrow afternoon. I know my oldest D's cheerleading practice is tommorow so my response was ”I guess I am watching my youngest D”. Then my W asked if I would go and I told her that I have mandatory physical training and that I would probably just go home. As soon as I got off the phone, I realized what a good chance this was to spedn time with all of them. Now I want to go. Guess I will call the W and tell her I thought about it and I can just change/shower at work and meet her there. She sounded disappointed that I said no.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Well, might have made a mistake. W called and asked what I was doing tomorrow afternoon. I know my oldest D's cheerleading practice is tommorow so my response was ”I guess I am watching my youngest D”. Then my W asked if I would go and I told her that I have mandatory physical training and that I would probably just go home. As soon as I got off the phone, I realized what a good chance this was to spedn time with all of them. Now I want to go. Guess I will call the W and tell her I thought about it and I can just change/shower at work and meet her there. She sounded disappointed that I said no.


Come on Lynn. Family time is prime time.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well, gave it a bit and called her back. Told her I had a bad day at work and wasnt thinking that I would have plenty of time to shower/change on base and meet her there. She asked if I wanted to talk about my day and I said no, it wasnt a big deal, just alot of crap to deal with. She went on about her day at work and then suggested we meet up for dinner before practice since we will have the time. She also said that it was my oldest D's idea for me to go. Is she using me seeing the kids as an excuse to see me or does she just want me to geniunely see the kids? I thought about this and I figured it doesnt matter, I get to see the girls and I know my W will be friendly and will want to talk. Just another chance for her to see a better me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Well, gave it a bit and called her back. Told her I had a bad day at work and wasnt thinking that I would have plenty of time to shower/change on base and meet her there. She asked if I wanted to talk about my day and I said no, it wasnt a big deal, just alot of crap to deal with. She went on about her day at work and then suggested we meet up for dinner before practice since we will have the time. She also said that it was my oldest D's idea for me to go. Is she using me seeing the kids as an excuse to see me or does she just want me to geniunely see the kids? I thought about this and I figured it doesnt matter, I get to see the girls and I know my W will be friendly and will want to talk. Just another chance for her to see a better me.


Good.

Remember where you said you would stop over analyzing things. You just did that.

Who cares what her intent was for the invitation.

Family time is just that family time.

And if she did not want you there you wouldn't be invited period.

It was also good that she asked you about your day.

Have a great time with her and the girls.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Good.
> 
> Remember where you said you would stop over analyzing things. You just did that.
> 
> ...


Oh, I know. I did overanalyze but stepped back like you and I both said and said, ”you know what, it doesnt matter why”. Something I have to work on to move on.

It was good she asked about my day and was concerned that it was bad because I dont have those very often and she offered up what was going on with her workday too.

My biggest concern about these kind of things is that she told me a month ago or so that she was only being nice to me out of guilt and obligation. I figured from that point on, if she was being nice, it would be because she wants to. Still have my concerns though.

Thanks HM


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn


No thanks needed.

And I can understand questioning her motives. Especially when she talks about being nice out of obligation or guilt.

But you know what, judge her by her actions, not what she says.

And her actions are positive. So you be positive too....

Later Buddy.

HM64


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Her actions are positive and I'm gonna do something I shouldn't but I'm gonna keep count of her actions since last Saturday night. Black and white could paint a picture and keep me engaged or tell me to back off. I think this is the beginning of something, maybe not R just yet. Maybe her trying to test the waters. I am a calculated planner. It's not who I am but what I do. I have a touch of OCD and anxiety, I'm taking pills for that and have been for over a year now. It helps. She isn't depressed anymore and I'm not highstrung. This would be a perfect time to work on our marriage instead of ending it but I play the cards I have been dealt and this is how I want to play this morning.

-Asked me to stay Saturday night and sleep in our bed because she misses me and is lonely. She lets me hold her and I feel she isn't tense but relaxed. Says she hasn't slept that good in weeks. 

-Also tells me to hold off a few weeks on getting an apartment and that she doesn't like the idea of it. She knows what it means and it scares her slightly into reality and out of the fog a little.

-Spends the day with me and the girls on Sunday. Texts me that night and says "thanks for a good day".

-Asks me on Monday to go to a 2 day marriage retreat in a few weeks. Says, "I think maybe I should give you a second chance but I'm not 100% on anytning, I'm still on the fence".

-Tuesday she asks me to go to the fair with her and the girls on Friday night. Sheasks even though she kows I hate rollercoasters. I tell her I would go and might even ride a coaster. 

-Wednesday, asks me to go to cheerleading practice with her and the girls and then out to dinner before it starts.

- Have been engaging in small talk over text. I've been confident enough to flirt and compliment and be funny. She has also been upbeat about it. I ended in each instance except one that was cut short by her.

Compared to the last few weeks, maybe closer to a month, it is positive and almost completely different but for some reason I am not getting my hopes up. I still feel like this is heading towards divorce. I don't know why I feel that way and I can't get really excited about these things we will be doing together. I have had a bad last couple of days mourning the death of my marriage.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lynn
> 
> 
> No thanks needed.
> ...


Thanks may not be expected but you guys/gals (Conrad and yourself especially) have really tried and helped in most cases help me control my emotions and have me viewing things in different perspectives. So thanks is given because you guys and gals are appreciated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

All of this sounds very positive.

Cautious optimism could be a beneficial outlook for you.

Stay the man she fell in love with - now that you've found him again.

Don't let him go away.




Lynn2437 said:


> Her actions are positive and I'm gonna do something I shouldn't but I'm gonna keep count of her actions since last Saturday night. Black and white could paint a picture and keep me engaged or tell me to back off. I think this is the beginning of something, maybe not R just yet. Maybe her trying to test the waters. I am a calculated planner. It's not who I am but what I do. I have a touch of OCD and anxiety, I'm taking pills for that and have been for over a year now. It helps. She isn't depressed anymore and I'm not highstrung. This would be a perfect time to work on our marriage instead of ending it but I play the cards I have been dealt and this is how I want to play this morning.
> 
> -Asked me to stay Saturday night and sleep in our bed because she misses me and is lonely. She lets me hold her and I feel she isn't tense but relaxed. Says she hasn't slept that good in weeks.
> 
> ...


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Last night went, well, weird. W called me earlier in the day to tell me that her POS family decided not to tell her that her aunt had cervical cancer and had an operation done on Monday. It wasn't until yesterday that they told her and it was only because her aunt was having complications. They are for the most part good people to be around for a week or so but nobody I would want to have any amount of trust in. She hated her childhood and still will not forgive family members including her Mom and Dad. We talked about it for a bit then she got busy and said she would call me back, she didn't. Her job is stressful and killing her on a daily basis, not to include the stress of being on the fence on one of the, if not the most important choices of her life. But she wanted the divorce/seperation and the job and has pursued them both, she is getting what she asked for and more that she didn't expect so I don't feel to sorry for her.

Fastforward to later in the day, she calls to confirm meeting up for dinner before cheer practice and asked if I was still going. We hashed out the details and met for dinner. She looked sour and depressed again. I was upbeat, confident and didn't feel awkward at all. I talked and played with the girls and the W and I made small attempts at small talk. She wasn't too engaged but made an attempt, it didn't bother me at all. At one point she took the youngest D to the bathroom and when they got back my youngest offered up out of nowhere that mommy was covering her face and was sad. I didn't say a word.

We split the girls because my oldest D wanted to ride with me and got to practice. We got there about 20 minutes early and I put the tailgate down on my truck to sit. I was in the same mood and so was she. We talked at bit more than earlier and I made some small attempts at humor. I really do feel like I am becoming more like my old self and it is getting easier and easier to talk to my wife like I did when we first met. I'm not too aggressive with it right now but I am getting back to that funny, confident, slighty ****y person I used to be and it feels great. At one point I looked over and my wife was crying pretty hard, I walked over and put my hand on her knee and asked her if she was alright and if it was about her aunt. She only said that she couldn't wait for this week to be over because work is stressing her out. I told her that she had one day left and then she had the weekend to relax. No more than that, no hug, no pity, just enough to let her know that I am there because I do still care. She probably wanted a big hug and for me to tell her everything would be fine and that she would be alright but I didn't, not to someone who said she wanted a divorce and told me she didn't love me anymore. I can't be that person for her right now. I will just hang back and observe.

At one point I sat down to watch the practice and the W sat a couple feet from me. I couldn't see that well and moved. She came down and sat right next to me this time. We talked a bit and at one point she told me she wanted to carpool with A and B (the friends of ours) who are going to the marriage retreat with us. I said I was not OK with that. I told her that this weekend was about us. I also told her I would not be OK with socializing or having our phones with us while we were at the retreat. She got defensive but agreed. I F***** up and asked her what she wanted to get out of the retreat, she said she didn't know and that is was a bad excuse. I told her it wasn't if she really didn't know and left it at that. She continued to act like pay attention to poor, poor, pitiful me but I really didn't want to. I engaged when she did or when I felt like it. 

Practice ended and we put the girls in her truck. I hugged and kissed my oldest and told her how pround I was of her for getting the spirit stick for that practice and went around the truck to say bye to the youngest. The W was closing the door as I came around as if she was expecting a hug, she didn't get one. I told her not to shut the door because I wanted to say bye to my youngest. I did and then I turned to leave, she said bye and thanks for coming, I said bye babe. Don't know why I said that, it just slipped. 

She texted me "Hey, thanks again" on my way home and I didn't respond. Then she called a few minutes later about the fair tommorow so we could work out the details. We decided when to meet and that we would go to dinner before hand with a couple of other couples and their kids that were goiong also. And I'll be damned if she didn't say "Ok, bye" in that little southern drawl she has when she is happy and a little flirty. Really caught me of gaurd considering how she had been acting all afternoon. 

Man, this is getting weird. She told me this last weekend that she is so stubborn and she said it over and over. I asked why and she would not elaborate, she just hung her head and shook it and said it again. She is on the verge on telling me something. She looks at me with those eyes. I just feel it in my gut the way she has been acting that she wants to tell me so bad that she jumped the gun and she wants to have another go and have a fresh start but she is to stubborn and ashamed at this point to say it. Call it overanalyzing, it might be. I just have that feeling. I on the other hand feel weird about all this too. I wanted her to start pursuing me and trying to do things without pressure to get me back and now that she is I'm not even excited about it. Yes I want it to happen, I guess I am a little gunshy. Maybe that is a good thing. I was probably a little to distant yesterday but maybe that just strengthens her resolve to get what she wants. She is going to be for a shock when I tell her my desires for what I want out of a R though. If this turns into what I have wanted for over two months, why do I feel so indifferent about it?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> All of this sounds very positive.
> 
> ...


At this point, the last few days at least, I don't feel anything. I am just going with it. I want her back, I know I do but I think I have gone through enough to build my own walls up to protect myself. It is funny the way I interact with her. It does feel like I am meeting her for the first time. I wish she would get out of this funk and just be herself and try to enjoy the ride however it works out. I just can't bring myself to get to close until she reciprocates more.

I try to be as honest and unbiased about the situation as I can be when I talk to my friend about this and she isn't my cheerleader, she knows and loves both my W and me. She says she doesn't want joint custody when she comes to visit. Along with her and a few other people, they are convinced we are gonna work this out but I just tell them I have my doubts.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn,

Couples that have been through what you are experiencing have much to prove to each other moving forward.

Gone are the blanket delusions and happy horsecrap of the early days.

It's about performance now.

Make no apologies for that.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Couples that have been through what you are experiencing have much to prove to each other moving forward.
> 
> ...


We have both stated to each other that we feel like this is a brand new relationship going forward, whatever happens. She still gets defensive but not ugly about anything, just a small amount of blameshifting and we have not fought once. The way we treat each other is unbelievably civil. Day by day, step by step. I don't know what I will want in the future but right now I do.

I will see how this weekend goes and maybe start to reach out to her a little bit. At this point unless something happens it feels like I should pursue just a bit, maybe a text or something every few days. Like I tell people when something is unclear or confusing, this is like playing chess without instruction. Or maybe I am intepreting it differently than she is dishing it out and I should stay 180. :scratchhead:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> We have both stated to each other that we feel like this is a brand new relationship going forward, whatever happens. She still gets defensive but not ugly about anything, just a small amount of blameshifting and we have not fought once. The way we treat each other is unbelievably civil. Day by day, step by step. I don't know what I will want in the future but right now I do.
> 
> I will see how this weekend goes and maybe start to reach out to her a little bit. At this point unless something happens it feels like I should pursue just a bit, maybe a text or something every few days. Like I tell people when something is unclear or confusing, this is like playing chess without instruction. Or maybe I am intepreting it differently than she is dishing it out and I should stay 180. :scratchhead:


Let her initiate until she complains about it.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Let her initiate until she complains about it.


I think you are right, I feel like she should come to me more which is why I didn't engage to much yesterday.

I just hope she doesn't feel like she is wasting her time. But if does truly want me, then she won't feel that way, she will come.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I think you are right, I feel like she should come to me more which is why I didn't engage to much yesterday.
> 
> I just hope she doesn't feel like she is wasting her time. But if does truly want me, then she won't feel that way, she will come.


You will get used to it.

I was the smothering partner also.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You will get used to it.
> 
> I was the smothering partner also.



I will.

I already am to some degree. I pursued hard when we met, she told me she was divorced and she wanted nothing to do with a relationship with anybody, well that didn't last long. 

Her turn.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

W called and I missed it, I didn't call back. Texted me a few minutes later asking what my plans were. I assumed she was talking about going to the fair, so I told her I didn't really have any and that I would be attempting to change and leave work around 3. Told me same for her when she got done at the bake sale. I didn't respond. 15 minutes later she said "U should stop by?" Told her I had work to do and that I couldn't. No response. 

Damn, she is making an attempt. At this point I am 180 enough to have this kind of stuff be automatic. But she is trying, how much do I give her, I just don't know. Example, we will be going to the fair and it will involve alot of coord. on her part to get the kids and all the other people going to get together for dinner and what not beforehand. Should I wait her out until she lets me know what is going to happen or should I give her a little and call and ask what the plan is? This is a really weird place to be. I feel like R is coming but she might not see it that way. So I don't know how to proceed with almost everything now. I was estactic at all the attempts she was making this week but it has taken me a step back on how to walk that fine line.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I would call and ask.

She is reaching out.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I would call and ask.
> 
> She is reaching out.


Mulled it over for awhile and figured I would change and get my stuff done first and then call and ask what the plan is but if I know her she will get impatient with my silence and call me first.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad, 

I think I will do a little homework assignment this weekend and read your threads and see if I can get into your mind a little bit. 

Would you mind giving me a little background of what brought you to TAM?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I think I will do a little homework assignment this weekend and read your threads and see if I can get into your mind a little bit.
> 
> Would you mind giving me a little background of what brought you to TAM?


Codependence


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Codependence


Gotcha


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Mulled it over for awhile and figured I would change and get my stuff done first and then call and ask what the plan is but if I know her she will get impatient with my silence and call me first.


Got my answer, she called me and asked what I wanted to do. I told her it was her idea and to let me know, so she came up with a plan and she will be meeting me with the girls in a little while. Tonight should be fun.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Gotcha


I can see not wanting to review 5,000+ posts for the story.

Let's just say that I now teach about the thing I needed to "get" more than anything else.

I have totally been there.

BTW - I am thrilled for what's going on with you.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I can see not wanting to review 5,000+ posts for the story.
> 
> Let's just say that I now teach about the thing I needed to "get" more than anything else.
> 
> ...


I will read alot this weekend, I have already read thousands of posts in the last 2+ months. I am interested to see where you came from to get to where you are at now.

And I am guarded but thrilled also. We'll see.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I will read alot this weekend, I have already read thousands of posts in the last 2+ months. I am interested to see where you came from to get to where you are at now.
> 
> And I am guarded but thrilled also. We'll see.


Let's put it this way.

My user account states August, 2010

There's been a huge amount of emotional growing up between then and now.

Right now, in the Men's Clubhouse (which is where my first 1000-1500 posts were made), they're discussing Fitness Testing.

Fitness Tests are real. Women have a tendency to test relationships emotionally to see if their man is strong enough to make them feel secure.

But, I now see that the amount of time spent on this subject is way out of line with its actual importance in relationships. Responding to Fitness Tests is merely a subset of the entire universe of standing up for yourself/breaking codependent behaviors.

To put it bluntly? Guys study how to respond to Fitness Tests because they sense (sometimes rightly) that it will get them more sex. And, that is a large reason why many many men show up at this particular website.

But, the appropriate response to manipulative behavior is not to learn how to manipulate back.

It's been a very very interesting - and ultimately fulfilling 2 years of personal growth.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Well tonight went better than I could hope it would. I did what I needed and now I am emotionally destroyed. She wants me back but wont say as much. She was flirty, touchy feely and tried to kiss me after crying in my arms when I was leaving. If it hadnt felt so awkard on her part I would have gone for it. I have to protect myself, as much as I wanted that kiss, I need the commitment more. Absolutely destroyed and balling like a baby. This is to much sometimes. 

Update:

Since I started this the W came by my brothers and told me to come home tomorrow. She said she loves me, she cant live her life without me. She said she doesnt know what the future may bring but she said she is 100 percent commited to making it work and spending her life with me. She is back and I am still guarded but after tonight I fully believe that we are on a journey towards a beautiful marriage. After the things she told me and the look on her face, I may be too trusting but knowing my wife the way I do, I believe we have made a big step forward towards working very hard to do this and do this right. I am beyond words. I will be back with updates. I hope my journey will benifit others and I thank all of you, Conrad especially you, in the TAM community. I will be back!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn2437 said:


> Well tonight went better than I could hope it would. I did what I needed and now I am emotionally destroyed. She wants me back but wont say as much. She was flirty, touchy feely and tried to kiss me after crying in my arms when I was leaving. If it hadnt felt so awkard on her part I would have gone for it. I have to protect myself, as much as I wanted that kiss, I need the commitment more. Absolutely destroyed and balling like a baby. This is to much sometimes.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Since I started this the W came by my brothers and told me to come home tomorrow. She said she loves me, she cant live her life without me. She said she doesnt know what the future may bring but she said she is 100 percent commited to making it work and spending her life with me. She is back and I am still guarded but after tonight I fully believe that we are on a journey towards a beautiful marriage. After the things she told me and the look on her face, I may be too trusting but knowing my wife the way I do, I believe we have made a big step forward towards working very hard to do this and do this right. I am beyond words. I will be back with updates. I hope my journey will benifit others and I thank all of you, Conrad especially you, in the TAM community. I will be back!


Excellent Lynn. I am very happy for you.

Go live your life. I like your wife's commitment so stop analyzing and jump in with both feet my man.

She has committed. Now you have to commit for your marriage to work as well.

And go scratch that itch.........

HM64


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Excellent Lynn. I am very happy for you.
> 
> Go live your life. I like your wife's commitment so stop analyzing and jump in with both feet my man.
> 
> ...


It is gonna take alot of work and we know it will never be the same because it cannot remain the same. Time to get to work. 

We agreed to not talk today but she wants to go to my IC appointment with me on Monday, so I guess IC will turn into MC and now I am really looking forward to the marriage retreat!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

That is really good news. I am very happy for both of you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Well tonight went better than I could hope it would. I did what I needed and now I am emotionally destroyed. She wants me back but wont say as much. She was flirty, touchy feely and tried to kiss me after crying in my arms when I was leaving. If it hadnt felt so awkard on her part I would have gone for it. I have to protect myself, as much as I wanted that kiss, I need the commitment more. Absolutely destroyed and balling like a baby. This is to much sometimes.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Since I started this the W came by my brothers and told me to come home tomorrow. She said she loves me, she cant live her life without me. She said she doesnt know what the future may bring but she said she is 100 percent commited to making it work and spending her life with me. She is back and I am still guarded but after tonight I fully believe that we are on a journey towards a beautiful marriage. After the things she told me and the look on her face, I may be too trusting but knowing my wife the way I do, I believe we have made a big step forward towards working very hard to do this and do this right. I am beyond words. I will be back with updates. I hope my journey will benifit others and I thank all of you, Conrad especially you, in the TAM community. I will be back!


Lynn,

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Just be the man she fell in love with and it will work.

I know you are acquainted with him again. Let him shine.

Brushing back a couple of tears here for you.

Congrats to both of you.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Figured I would update my weekend. Everything is going really good. It is indescribable how surreal this feels. I am finding myself wondering her true motives for doing this and someday I might but right now i am ignorantly blissful. See has asked to go hunting with me this fall and has made plans for us in the future. Nothing special but plans for us nonetheless. We haved both expressed a certain amount of fear of what the future may bring but we both feel like it is worth it. I think one of the most memorable events in the last couple of years happened this weekend also, My beautiful wife asked me to put her rings back on her finger and did the same for me. She also attacked me in the bedroom in the middle of the afternoon. She intiated sex for the first time in years. We started off kissing and she asked if I wanted too. I told her I was completely happy not going further but of course I did. :smthumbup: It was amazing.,


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn,

Excellent update.

Now keep that awesome feeling and give each other that attention everyday......

HM64


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> Lynn,
> 
> Excellent update.
> 
> ...


No way I can add to this.

Congrats bro.

You stayed the course.

These are the moments we live for.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

I wake up this morning for work and it is all like it has always been but without the tension we had built up for years. I give my W a kiss before I leave and lose it on the way to work, crying and worrying if she will ever do this again or if she is doing this for a reason she isn't telling me. I don't want to ever lose this. I guess we are in critical but stable condition. It's a weird place to be. We don't know the future but we are both trying. Seems I want it more but at least I have the common sense to back off unless I feel like she is making an attempt at being close. We haved really laughed and smiled at each other like we haven't in a long time. I am doubtful this morning but I guess after years of wanting to leave our marriage it will take a long time for her to heal and feel completely comfortable with me again. 

I have been triggering alot this weekend too. Only once in front of her. We were going somewhere and I just got quiet, she asked what was wrong and I told her if she really wanted to know, to ask me later. I'm glad she didn't, I was kind of angry about the whole thing but it passed and like I said I got attacked shortly afterwards. 

Patience will be the key. She has given me more over this weekend than she needed too and even though I feel I need more I realize something. We didn't become completely each other's or ourselves for along time in the beginning. This process is just beginning again, only this time with a little familiarity but also some hurt on both sides. I'm navigating unfamilier waters, wish me luck TAM and as always advice is always appreciated.

When does this go to the R sub-forum?  Maybe if I keep it here it can help someone.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I wake up this morning for work and it is all like it has always been but without the tension we had built up for years. I give my W a kiss before I leave and lose it on the way to work, crying and worrying if she will ever do this again or if she is doing this for a reason she isn't telling me. I don't want to ever lose this. I guess we are in critical but stable condition. It's a weird place to be. We don't know the future but we are both trying. Seems I want it more but at least I have the common sense to back off unless I feel like she is making an attempt at being close. We haved really laughed and smiled at each other like we haven't in a long time. I am doubtful this morning but I guess after years of wanting to leave our marriage it will take a long time for her to heal and feel completely comfortable with me again.
> 
> I have been triggering alot this weekend too. Only once in front of her. We were going somewhere and I just got quiet, she asked what was wrong and I told her if she really wanted to know, to ask me later. I'm glad she didn't, I was kind of angry about the whole thing but it passed and like I said I got attacked shortly afterwards.
> 
> ...


You would start a new thread there.

Of course, we don't want to lose touch with you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lynn

Everything you are feeling is normal.

Can I make one recommendation to you.

When you get upset because of the feeling that you could be abandoned again share that thought with your wife.

Do not hold back. Let her know what you are feeling and why you feel that way.

She might GE having the same feelings and this open communication can help you two bond strongly for the future.

Stay in touch Lynn. That is an order.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lynn
> 
> Everything you are feeling is normal.
> 
> ...


HM, I kinda have. When she asked me to come home on Friday night, I said I wouldn't unless we talked. I told her I was extremely hurt and felt cast aside regardless of what had happened for us to get to this point. I told her that I was really close to moving on and that if this happened again I didn't know if I could take the pain again and would probably be gone for good. That I didn't think I could handle going through this hell again. I told her there is no way I can tell what the future may bring but that I was 100% commited to doing everything I could to doing this over. I didn't really ask or demand but I wanted the same re-assurance from her and she could tell, she gave it. 

IDK how to feel about all of this, I guess time and patience can heal alot but I fear the future. I used some of my escape money I had been saving and bought a TV. I kind of joked with the W and asked if I bought this and she changed her mind I wouldn't have enough to get a place, don't remember verbatim what she said but it was something along the lines of "you don't have to worry about that". I have brought it up before and put it like this to her. "What if you just had a bad week and you just need someone here for you now and that next week you have your doubts and I get cast aside again?" Her reponses to this gentle type of questioning is always along the lines of I don't have to worry and to give it time so we can do this right and start over. She says her defenses are up but she sees who I'm becoming and I'm who she wants. 

She is seriously a different person and I think I love her more now than I have in a very long time. I have fallen in love with my wife again. She said that she was more excited for me to come home on Saturday than she was when I came back from a 5 1/2 month deployment. She sees a different person, I see a different person in her and me. And it scares me more than anything has ever scared me before.

The sex really messed me up. She told me on Friday before I came home that we wouldn't for awhile, I agreed with no reservations, I would wait. I was downstairs doing something and she called my name. When I got up there she grabbed my hand and took me to our bedroom and threw me on the bed. She started kissing me like she hasn't intiated in years and asked if I wanted "to". I really felt conflicted. I told her I was more than happy to just leave it where it was at. When we first got together I respected her choice to wait until it was right. She tried to have sex a few times but I held back because she was either buzzed or horny, it didn't feel right and I knew she may regret it. It was a long time before we actually did. Yesterday, I felt the same way but I did it anyway because I could tell she wanted to connect even though she didn't feel the same about it as me. I told her as much beforehand. Afterwards I told her that again. I said that it meant alot more to me than it did her and it hurt me to know that. She started tearing up and felt bad, said that she felt as if she used me. I said that she didn't, I am a grown man and if I didn't want to I wouldn't have. She said again, like with most things, that she would get there and she was trying. It was fun though and we did connect, it wasn't just sex, she knew it and I knew it because I made sure it wasn't, it just didn't mean as much to her. 

Sorry for the novel, I'm still conflicted. But Saturday was better than Friday and Sunday was better than Saturday...


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## BeYou (Aug 17, 2012)

Just read through this whole thread, and really happy for you Lynn!

Now just MAKE SURE that you keep this "new" old you, and don't forget to make her feel special.

In my case, we had a 4 month separation, and we felt the same way when we got back together, things were fantastic! Better than ever!

Just make sure life doesn't get too busy too quickly again.

My current thread is in the Reconciliation forum, but should definitely be moved into this form.

Conrad, I was as fascinated by your posts as I was Lynn's. You're a great person and have very sound advice for people when they're not thinking soundly. If you're bored, I could use you in my thread. Lol!

Again, congrats Lynn. Awesome stuff!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Great things are happening for you Lynn.

It will take time and your fears will eventually subside.

Again, take it day by day.

I think you both like the people you have become.

Show her that everyday. And make sure she reciprocates.

I have been married for 20 years. Know my wife for 26. She helped me heal a few wounds from the past.

I pay her back in spades everyday. Even if it is a simple word, stare, smile. To this day I check her out and when she comments I tell her exactly what I was looking at.

And you know what Lynn, no matter what she says to me I know she loves it.

*A good marriage takes work. A great marriage takes a lot of work. The key is too spread it over each day so you both never get tired of it and each other.*

Keep working at it buddy.

You are doing great.

HM64


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Great things are happening for you Lynn.
> 
> It will take time and your fears will eventually subside.
> 
> ...


I wish I knew what I was doing, I am as lost as ever and laughing at myself for being here. She is home and not engaging right now and I really just want to crawl in a hole. Time to try I guess, better than not trying.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Make an effort. It will get easier over time.

Just remember what it was like when you two were dating.

Maybe a comment about her eyes, her laugh or even her butt.

How about a joke?

*What woman does not like to laugh? What woman does not love a man that makes her laugh??*

Damn I need to write a book. Lol!

Go make her laugh Lynn.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I wish I knew what I was doing, I am as lost as ever and laughing at myself for being here. She is home and not engaging right now and I really just want to crawl in a hole. Time to try I guess, better than not trying.


You ever smack her in the butt playfully?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Make an effort. It will get easier over time.
> 
> Just remember what it was like when you two were dating.
> 
> ...


I'm getting there, I told her while I was watching her walk down the aisle in Target over the weekend how much I loved seeing her walk away from me, she blushed and smiled!

I have been making her laugh alot lately too, especially over the weekend. She has laughed at me like she hasn't in along time, she smiles at me that way too. 

I have a thread in the R sub-forum, last night was bad but it was all my fault. I quit smoking 10 days ago and as of last night I have quit drinking. It was bad for me but after this morning not nearly as bad on her, we will get over this hump as well. Had a good weekend just to have a bad Monday, oh well, another day today to make a difference and show her what she means and how much I am willing to met her half way. She took one hell of a leap of faith asking me home, time to make her realize it wasn't for nothing.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You ever smack her in the butt playfully?


Used to all the time.

Did it a few times, when appropriate, over the weekend.

Old habits die hard I guess!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Used to all the time.
> 
> Did it a few times, when appropriate, over the weekend.
> 
> Old habits die hard I guess!


Quite often a very good move.

Stay with that stuff - and have confidence in yourself.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Quite often a very good move.
> 
> Stay with that stuff - and have confidence in yourself.


That my problem, I'm all over the place. I'm either the person she loves spending time with because I am being myself or I have doubts about the future and I crawl in my shell of despair and frustration. 

I do think it will get better though. Even after last night I am full of hope and can't wait to she her and the kids tonight. I have called her and sent her a text this morning, not out of guilt from last night but just to let her know I was thinking of her. She was positive about both.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> That my problem, I'm all over the place. I'm either the person she loves spending time with because I am being myself or I have doubts about the future and I crawl in my shell of despair and frustration.
> 
> I do think it will get better though. Even after last night I am full of hope and can't wait to she her and the kids tonight. I have called her and sent her a text this morning, not out of guilt from last night but just to let her know I was thinking of her. She was positive about both.


Now pipe down.

So easy to gush, isn't it?

I was thinking about this last night. I've talked with so many women that believe they're the busiest people on earth.

Think about how someone who believes they have "no time" views the desire (by us codependent guys) to be a best friend type.

OMIGOD.. it's like having another child!

I don't have time!

Have you rented Blue Valentine the movie?


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Now pipe down.
> 
> So easy to gush, isn't it?
> 
> ...


Piping down for the day, just needed to say a little something, she will get more from me later. 

I will get there, looking at codependancy, I realize I never was until June 14th and now I am the poster child for it. It will take time, like most everything will if we are gonna work on this. It's like when you get really close to being in a car wreck or something along those lines. At first the feeling is overwhelming and even after you start to calm down, you don't forget about it for awhile. I am at the point where I am starting to relax a little but only a little.

Have not watched Blue Valentine but I will look it up on IMDB and get the plot. Whats the correlation?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

He "was" a guy with game who immersed himself in his marriage.

I won't spoil it further.

It's so rare that Hollywood tells you the truth.

Pay special attention to the questions she asks him.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> He "was" a guy with game who immersed himself in his marriage.
> 
> I won't spoil it further.
> 
> ...


Will do, thanks.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Will do, thanks.


Then compare how he reacts with what you did last night.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then compare how he reacts with what you did last night.


Looked it up on IMDB and read the synopsis. Might watch the movie if I can get some time alone one day, don't think I want to though, not right now at least. It may give me some perspective.

After last night I know I am done with numbing myself. I can't do it to myself or her. Time to hit the refresh button again and just keep being the best me I can.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> Looked it up on IMDB and read the synopsis. Might watch the movie if I can get some time alone one day, don't think I want to though, not right now at least. It may give me some perspective.
> 
> After last night I know I am done with numbing myself. I can't do it to myself or her. Time to hit the refresh button again and just keep being the best me I can.


I watched it with my wife.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Way to go, quit smoking last week, drinking this week.

Nothing like doing it all at once with everything else going on in your life......

Hold on, let me snap off my red cape and throw it in the mail to you.
:lol:

Listen to Conrad. I am going to rent the movie as well.

Just be yourself. Do not smother her but when you are together you know what to do. Love her. Appreciate her. 

And concentrate on work even with that big [email protected] eating grin on your face!!!
:smthumbup:


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I watched it with my wife.


I'll watch it with her then, if she wants.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I'll watch it with her then, if she wants.


Let her read the synopsis and see if she's up for it.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Way to go, quit smoking last week, drinking this week.
> 
> Nothing like doing it all at once with everything else going on in your life......
> 
> ...


Thanks HM, I look forward towards tonight. We are doing the whole dinner/cheer practice thing again. I will observe and react accordingly. We will probably spend some time together afterwards too, can't wait. Yesterday I felt like crap all day, today I feel good.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Let her read the synopsis and see if she's up for it.


I'll wait for a good time and bring it up. What do you think she will get out of it?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I'll wait for a good time and bring it up. What do you think she will get out of it?


Understanding of 'niceguys' and how they may lose themselves with their good intentions.

But not if you tell her.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Understanding of 'niceguys' and how they may lose themselves with their good intentions.
> 
> But not if you tell her.


I was never a nice guy but at the same time I did immerse myself completely into family life, not getting out much, not making friends, ect. But it sounds like she will still be able to relate on that aspect.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn2437 said:


> I was never a nice guy but at the same time I did immerse myself completely into family life, not getting out much, not making friends, ect. But it sounds like she will still be able to relate on that aspect.


Wait until you hear the questions his wife asks him in the movie.

They're the questions that ALL wives are asking of those men who have chosen to "immerse" themselves.


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## Lynn2437 (Jul 19, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Wait until you hear the questions his wife asks him in the movie.
> 
> They're the questions that ALL wives are asking of those men who have chosen to "immerse" themselves.


I will have to check out Netflix and see if it is on there, if not I will be going to the movie store.


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