# How do you fall in love with your husband again?



## Anonymous07

I realized last night that I no longer feel the same way about my husband as I had before and would like to get back that feeling again. We do have a 1 year old son, so date nights out are few and far between(time schedules are difficult and we really don't have any extra money for babysitters - my mom only watches him occasionally for free). 

I'm wondering what I can do to help bring those feelings back? Our marriage is still rocky, but has been getting better(slowly).


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## EleGirl

Spend time together doing things that you both enjoy. 

Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"?


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I realized last night that I no longer feel the same way about my husband as I had before and would like to get back that feeling again. We do have a 1 year old son, so date nights out are few and far between(time schedules are difficult and we really don't have any extra money for babysitters - my mom only watches him occasionally for free).
> 
> I'm wondering what I can do to help bring those feelings back? Our marriage is still rocky, but has been getting better(slowly).


Sounds like you know that spending quality time together would help. So you need to make it a priority. Shut down Tv if you have not already. Once your son is asleep, spend time together. Even if the time is rough, spend it together and get through the rough patch to get to the point where you are connecting again. 

You may have to start with a discussion telling him that this is important to your marriage, that you really want to work on it, and that you want it to work.

Just how many "quality" hours are you guys spending together? By that, I mean time where the distractions are off, and you are together?


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## richardsharpe

Good afternoon Anonymous
I know life is busy, but try to find time to have fun together. Go out on dates again.

Try for more physical intimacy - I don't just mean sex. If you are sitting on the sofa watching TV, sit together. Commercial breaks are a great excuse for a bit of kissing.

Try to make sure that you aren't only doing chores when you are together.


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## unbelievable

You are not supposed to feel the same about your husband as you did when you were dating. Love evolves. Your needs as a single woman aren't the same as your needs today. Love matures and it is supposed to feel different. Different isn't "worse", it's just different. When you both are 80, your love will feel different than it does today. We don't remain ignorant 18 year olds our entire lives, so we should expect our relationships to mature as we mature. I think this is one reason for a lot of problems. People enter marriages with the ridiculous notion that their "feelings" will never change. Your finances will change, your priorities will change, your health will change, basically everything in your life will change, so why would anyone imagine that love would feel exactly the same over a relationship designed to last over 60 years?


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## Anonymous07

unbelievable said:


> You are not supposed to feel the same about your husband as you did when you were dating. Love evolves. Your needs as a single woman aren't the same as your needs today. Love matures and it is supposed to feel different. Different isn't "worse", it's just different. When you both are 80, your love will feel different than it does today. We don't remain ignorant 18 year olds our entire lives, so we should expect our relationships to mature as we mature. I think this is one reason for a lot of problems. People enter marriages with the ridiculous notion that their "feelings" will never change. Your finances will change, your priorities will change, your health will change, basically everything in your life will change, so why would anyone imagine that love would feel exactly the same over a relationship designed to last over 60 years?


I don't expect things to always be the same, but I do expect to feel some loving feeling toward my husband. Right now, I'm not feeling anything. My marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to me.


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## Anonymous07

EleGirl said:


> Spend time together doing things that you both enjoy.
> 
> Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"?


No, but I showed him the book last night. He said we could buy it, but I'm not sure how interested he is in reading it with me. 



fightforher said:


> Sounds like you know that spending quality time together would help. So you need to make it a priority. Shut down Tv if you have not already. Once your son is asleep, spend time together. Even if the time is rough, spend it together and get through the rough patch to get to the point where you are connecting again.
> 
> You may have to start with a discussion telling him that this is important to your marriage, that you really want to work on it, and that you want it to work.
> 
> Just how many "quality" hours are you guys spending together? By that, I mean time where the distractions are off, and you are together?


Not many. Maybe 3 nights a week? I work the opposite schedule of my husband. He works days, while I am at home with our son, and then we switch. I don't work all evenings, but enough that I feel like I don't always see my husband often enough. I wish work schedules were different, but it's the only way we can pay all of the bills right now. Childcare is outrageous, so it was cheaper for me to be home with our son. We're both 'underemployed', as neither of us use our degrees at the moment, but my husband has been trying to move up in the company(just hasn't happened yet). 

The time we have together is typically spent watching tv/netflix. Weekends have become chores/housework days, with a lot of arguing. We do cuddle on the couch and/or hold hands, but lately I feel like I'm more so just going through the motions.


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## inquizitivemind

I have a similar problem to you, OP. My husband has a crazy work schedule and I hardly ever see him. I spend maximum 1 hour a day as real quality time, sometimes not even that.

I cried a lot about it when it first got like this because I thought I was disconnected. My husband is a sweetheart though. He started sending me flirty texts from work. Those random texts did a lot to help us reconnect. Also, he would send me a message saying, remind me to tell you a story later. I, of course, would wait the whole night to hear that story.

You should sit down and talk to your husband. Tell him how you feel and that you miss him. It may be he doesn't even realize how you feel and is too into the routine of life to notice.


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## jld

Be transparent with him. Show him your heart. Be vulnerable with him.

Your transparency will work on his conscience. 

We all hide, to some extent. But it is probably the worst thing we can do for our marriages.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> No, but I showed him the book last night. He said we could buy it, but I'm not sure how interested he is in reading it with me.
> 
> 
> 
> Not many. Maybe 3 nights a week? I work the opposite schedule of my husband. He works days, while I am at home with our son, and then we switch. I don't work all evenings, but enough that I feel like I don't always see my husband often enough. I wish work schedules were different, but it's the only way we can pay all of the bills right now. Childcare is outrageous, so it was cheaper for me to be home with our son. We're both 'underemployed', as neither of us use our degrees at the moment, but my husband has been trying to move up in the company(just hasn't happened yet).
> 
> The time we have together is typically spent watching tv/netflix. Weekends have become chores/housework days, with a lot of arguing. We do cuddle on the couch and/or hold hands, but lately I feel like I'm more so just going through the motions.


Three night per week is better than none. But it does not come close to the 15 hours per week recommended.

Turn off the TV set for two weeks. Have a talk with your H about trying to work on your marriage for just two weeks. Do a trial of no TV for just two weeks to see if you the two of you can reconnect.

My guess is that this will be painful as the arguing that usually occurs on the weekends will flow into the other days of the week. But once the argument is over, there will be some time to connect, and remember why you got married in the first place.

Work schedules can be a bug issue.

A one year old son is pretty demanding and leaves you with little time. However as they become older there are sections of their lives that are less demanding. So, don't give up because as time goes on your son will give you more time. And that may ease things on the two of you.

One other thing you might do is write letters to your H while you get a break at home during the day. For example, while your son is taking a nap, take a few minutes and write a letter to your H and give it to him later when he has time to read it. This way you can express your feelings to him and he can read it when he has the mind set to read it. If anything, this might open up his eyes to your desire to keep your marriage and make it stronger.

Do not expect him to write letters back, or even make a lot of comments about what you wrote. It may not be his style. But if you feel comfortable writing down what your feeling, it may help him see what you are going thru.


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## cbnero

If you are counting on him to be responsible for your happiness then that's an issue for you to address on your own. He isnt.

What are you doing to keep things intimate? What can you do differently? It's easier to change yourself vs someone else. But you can lead the way in making changes.

Men do NOT understand when women tell us stuff. So if you communicate with him and you want positive results make sure it isn't blaming at all. Or he will shut down and think you are just nagging. 

Compliment him when he does stuff. If you remain positive and happy and tell him you really like it when he does ABC then he will likely do more of it. 

If you say you really like it when he does something and then also tell him it turns you on and you share more sexual then he will definitely respond. Just realize we men are dumb a bit in that department and slow to catch up. Make sure you aren't having expectations that if he doesn't do perfectly you don't have resentment. Resentment is a relationship killer.

Love is a choice. Every day you can choose to look at the positive aspects of him and love him. He is likely doing this for you. If you don't and you start secretly keeping score then you will shut down, start hating, stop real communication, and your marriage is doomed.

Your choice. Your responsibility. 

Good luck. 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## heartsbeating

Do you remember how he was, and how you were, when you had those feelings of love? 

Maybe some factors are still there but are being overlooked or taken for granted. Maybe the way you were has altered since then (naturally) but could you perhaps tap into aspects of self from those times? And, the only other thing I can offer for thought is, don't put pressure or expectation on it... just be open.

I looked to some old love letters that hubs and I exchanged way back in the day. Know what I saw in them? I saw the way I was meeting his needs without being consciously aware. Different moments in time are captured in those letters including who I was, how I was with him, how he was with me, and how we were together. Now I'm getting The Beatles in my head. _I am he as you are he as you are me. And we are all together._ 

Relationships evolve, needs change, but I think there's clues in those earlier times. Maybe certain elements no longer apply, maybe they're channeled differently, but I know that for us, what I had to understand about our marriage was actually there in writing from all those years ago. I can't say I've experienced where you're at. And I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Coo coo cuchoo.


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## dormant

I have to ask: Is someone at work showing you attention you aren't getting from your husband?


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## unbelievable

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't expect things to always be the same, but I do expect to feel some loving feeling toward my husband. Right now, I'm not feeling anything. My marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to me.


You actually have a lot of control over how you feel about him. Humans have to justify every action to themselves, so if you act lovingly or romantic toward him frequently enough, you will eventually feel that way about him. Also, the guy probably has some traits you really do admire. Focus on those, praise those. Try to avoid focusing on his less desirable ones. 
If you think about it, this is why we have marriage ceremonies and we take vows. If people could naturally feel loving toward their spouses every day, there would be no need to take any vows. These vows are to help us act lovingly during the periods we don't feel lovingly. 
Life gets in the way and we sometimes forget to act like couples. As unromantic at it sounds, you two might need to schedule a date night or couple time. Good luck to you both.


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## Anonymous07

inquizitivemind said:


> I have a similar problem to you, OP. My husband has a crazy work schedule and I hardly ever see him. I spend maximum 1 hour a day as real quality time, sometimes not even that.
> 
> I cried a lot about it when it first got like this because I thought I was disconnected. My husband is a sweetheart though. He started sending me flirty texts from work. Those random texts did a lot to help us reconnect. Also, he would send me a message saying, remind me to tell you a story later. I, of course, would wait the whole night to hear that story.
> 
> You should sit down and talk to your husband. Tell him how you feel and that you miss him. It may be he doesn't even realize how you feel and is too into the routine of life to notice.


My husband knows all too well that we have problems. There was a time period where he knew I was about to leave because I just couldn't stay in a marriage where I was being treated the way I was. It's getting better, just slowly. 

I do get the occasional random text message saying he loves me, but sometimes it just feels so routine. 



fightforher said:


> Three night per week is better than none. But it does not come close to the 15 hours per week recommended.
> 
> Turn off the TV set for two weeks. Have a talk with your H about trying to work on your marriage for just two weeks. Do a trial of no TV for just two weeks to see if you the two of you can reconnect.
> 
> My guess is that this will be painful as the arguing that usually occurs on the weekends will flow into the other days of the week. But once the argument is over, there will be some time to connect, and remember why you got married in the first place.
> 
> Work schedules can be a bug issue.
> 
> A one year old son is pretty demanding and leaves you with little time. However as they become older there are sections of their lives that are less demanding. So, don't give up because as time goes on your son will give you more time. And that may ease things on the two of you.
> 
> One other thing you might do is write letters to your H while you get a break at home during the day. For example, while your son is taking a nap, take a few minutes and write a letter to your H and give it to him later when he has time to read it. This way you can express your feelings to him and he can read it when he has the mind set to read it. If anything, this might open up his eyes to your desire to keep your marriage and make it stronger.
> 
> Do not expect him to write letters back, or even make a lot of comments about what you wrote. It may not be his style. But if you feel comfortable writing down what your feeling, it may help him see what you are going thru.


We definitely need to try something new. I may try some of this.


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## skype

Willard Harley has excellent suggestions on his website, MarriageBuilders, about how to fall back in love with your spouse:

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Identify your most important emotional needs, and tell your husband specifically what he can do to meet these needs:

The Most Important Emotional Needs

Tell your husband what Love Busters he should avoid:

Love Busters

Watch how you argue. John Gottman's The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work is very good for suggestions about how to fight fairly.

Make sure that your husband knows that you want to work on this problem together, and that you are very serious about wanting a good marriage. He will withdraw if you blame him for all of the problems. You want to take the approach that you are a team, and that you want his input to solve this.

Turn off the TV and give each other sensual massages. Non-verbal communication of affection can help melt away resentments.


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## heartsbeating

committed4ever said:


> A7, you have received some good advice and I have nothing different to add. I just wanted to tell you that I'm rooting for you, your family, and your marriage. I really think you can overcome these rough spots and make it through this.


Ditto.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5

find stuff to do together that you both like. Like hiking, tag sales, cooking classes....the more time you spend together doing new stuff, the more new things you two have to talk about and share.


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## jasmine9

For me, it took the possibility that we were really divorcing. That is when we began counseling and spending time together. I was once again able to kiss him, hug him, sleep in the same bed and make love. Before that, I used to stay downstairs until I knew he was asleep. I would make excuses and say I was watching tv with our son or working. Now that I look back, I was horrible.


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## Tall Average Guy

Anonymous07 said:


> We do have a 1 year old son, so date nights out are few and far between(time schedules are difficult and we really don't have any extra money for babysitters - my mom only watches him occasionally for free).


Try some things that incorporate you son. Go to the park or take a walk with the whole family. The world will help distract your son while you two spend a bit of time together.


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## Anonymous07

Tall Average Guy said:


> Try some things that incorporate you son. Go to the park or take a walk with the whole family. The world will help distract your son while you two spend a bit of time together.


We went jogging this morning since my husband started work later than normal today, and it was actually really nice. We walked to the park talking along the way, then jogged, then walked back home. Hoping we can do that more often.

We used to go hiking, but haven't been in a long time.


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## Anonymous07

dormant said:


> I have to ask: Is someone at work showing you attention you aren't getting from your husband?


Past tense, was. There was a regular customer who came in often only asking for me(work retail). We would talk and joke around, but I stopped it. It went on for a few weeks, but it started getting more inappropriate and I haven't seen him in weeks now.


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## SimplyAmorous

cbnero said:


> Bingo. You might have cut it off, but the damage is already done. Your husband (reality) pales in comparison to OM (fantasy land).
> 
> Now you start fault finding and comparing. Same as every other person justifying ruining a marriage and family.
> 
> Tell your husband and start working on yourself first. Or leave him now and don't blame him. You'll only do more damage and he probably doesn't deserve it.
> 
> How would you feel if he had another woman and did this to you?
> 
> *This admission should have been the first thing you wrote in your post. Doesn't sound like you feel remorse or regret. Coward.
> 
> Instead you start with the complaints and blame.
> 
> I feel bad for your husband. *
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


This is WAY OFF BASE without knowing HER story *and his treatment of her.*. I sympathize with Anonymous07...she has tried .. and tried.... Oh my..HER HUSBAND went from a great guy- (so it seemed)...dating 3 yrs.. then turning on her after the Wedding ... bait & switch on the man's side .. sure sounds it to me ! But why??

How many men refuse to have sex, pushing their wives away on their Honeymoon yet ... read some of her story here.. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/78513-when-enough-enough.html 

...then how he acted once she got pregnant...demeaning.. ugly behavior... and you think SHE is a complainer.. Oh NO. I really don't know all the dynamics going on here... but HE effectively pushed her away pretty damn good!! And yeah... this is often the result.. pretty common how she is feeling.. 

I can understand and sympathize with the resentment that you have been struggling with Anonymous07 (this is why you feel so disconnected & can't find it again)..... this is something that has to be overcome...talked through...your feeling *his remorse* , and it's authenticity .... to get those feelings back.. it's a meeting of the hearts...if he is not willing to put in this effort showing he cares about you..how he has hurt you in the past.. and how you have hurt him (be self aware)...both of you meeting each other half way... you are going to continue to feel alone.. and struggle here.. 

As others have suggested...getting out of your element, doing things together.. making shared memories... keep the communication going.. ask him what he wants to Do..where he'd like to go...do those little things to make that happen.. so he can feel YOUR care in wanting to get back to where you once was... Hopefully this will have him warming up to you.. 

How is the communication .. and has the sex situation been resolved ??


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## meson

Anonymous07, I know what it is like to feel nothing for your spouse. When our marriage was at a low point, I felt nothing and was considering divorce. The good news is that we did fall in love with each other again. And if we did then you can too. The recommendations by Elegirl, Heartsbeating and Tall Average Guy are spot on. You need to address each other’s needs, not let time slip by watching TV and not really interacting and find ways to spend more time together even with a newborn.

What worked for me was that I took time to myself and improved me as a person first. This had the effect of making me more attractive to my wife. I became more the guy I was before we were married. Then I looked at our marriage issues and identified the biggest problem we had which was communication and worked on that. The trick was that I didn’t expect instant results. I realized that I had to reestablish the trust in communication before things would really change. This took a long time. 

I know that you have worked recently to have him stop abusive behavior towards you and you have been successful. That lack of pain does not create an environment of attraction. It will take a lot of positive action on his part to erase the issues you have encountered. So to help this along, I recommend that you look inward and decide what you want and need and determine if your husband is capable of providing it. If you think that he can really return to fulfilling your needs, then work on solving one of your ongoing marital issues that you think you can solve. Then put yourself in his place. He will have needs that you are not meeting. Determine what they are and work on one or two irrespective of what he does. This will help to reestablish the environment you had when you were dating. After a while the interaction between you both should be more healthy and trusting. 

At this point you need to start courting your husband again. Arrange activities to do with him that you both will enjoy. You don’t need to be alone; you can have quality time with him and your child as well. One thing that you could do is try to do more of the weekend chores on days when you are apart. If you can do this then you will start to minimize the time for arguments and open up time on the weekend for fun stuff. I work a four day work week and do most of my chores on Wednesday so that the weekend is more open for fun stuff. This could open a day for you all to go for a hike since you mention that you use to do this. Get a backpack carrier for your child and hike together as a family. One of my friends has a young child and this is what they do. This weekend they are going camping with a one year old.

The last ingredient to help you fall in love with your husband again is to develop a shared interest from which the both of you can grow together. For my wife and I it was backpacking. We just got back from a 90+ mile trek that we did with our sons with a Venture crew. It created some great bonding moments and memories.

Here is an example of what I did:
Improved myself – Started an old hobby of mine again which got me into shape and made me happy. If I’m happy it is easier for my wife to be happy around me.

Worked on a problem – Communication; We had toxic communication. I simply started assuming the best with what she said. She learned that I was no longer sniping at her but genuinely interested in what she was saying. 

Quality time – We started to have weekend breakfasts on fine china while we went over the weeks activities. This also addressed a communication issue.

Met more of her needs – She had a need for me to be more involved with the kids than I was. I worked on being a better parent. She was involved in our kids scouting activities and I joined her eventually becoming Scoutmaster for the boys Troop. This was also quality time.

Doing all of that plus more created an environment that was similar to when we dated. As she became comfortable with me again she began to meet more of my needs. We returned to the people we had fallen in love with which caused us to fall in love again. Good luck and be patient, it takes a long time to transition from indifference to love.


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## Fozzy

cbnero said:


> Bingo. You might have cut it off, but the damage is already done. Your husband (reality) pales in comparison to OM (fantasy land).
> 
> Now you start fault finding and comparing. Same as every other person justifying ruining a marriage and family.
> 
> Tell your husband and start working on yourself first. Or leave him now and don't blame him. You'll only do more damage and he probably doesn't deserve it.
> 
> How would you feel if he had another woman and did this to you?
> 
> This admission should have been the first thing you wrote in your post. Doesn't sound like you feel remorse or regret. Coward.
> 
> Instead you start with the complaints and blame.
> 
> I feel bad for your husband.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Holy cats! I didn't see anything in her post to justify this. She joked around with a customer and when it became inappropriate, she ended it. Period. 

Anonymous, I'd only add to previous comments that while yes your feelings will change over time, (as stated, different does not equal bad), I believe it IS possible to recapture that early relationship "glow". However it requires you to fall in love with the man he currently is, rather than wishing that you were both the people you used to be.


ETA: just saw SA's synopsis of things. Sounds like it's going to take a lot of work. I wish you both luck.


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## Anonymous07

intheory said:


> Well done. You sensed it was going in the wrong direction; and you stopped it. Good for you.:smnotworthy:


Thanks. 

I may have let it go on for a few more days than I should have, but the attention was kind of nice at the time. It felt good to joke around and have someone seem into me. I never shared anything intimate. When he became flirty, I told him to back off.


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## Anonymous07

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is WAY OFF BASE without knowing HER story *and his treatment of her.*. I sympathize with Anonymous07...she has tried .. and tried.... Oh my..HER HUSBAND went from a great guy- (so it seemed)...dating 3 yrs.. then turning on her after the Wedding ... bait & switch on the man's side .. sure sounds it to me ! But why??
> 
> How many men refuse to have sex, pushing their wives away on their Honeymoon yet ... read some of her story here..
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/78513-when-enough-enough.html
> 
> ...then how he acted once she got pregnant...demeaning.. ugly behavior... and you think SHE is a complainer.. Oh NO. I really don't know all the dynamics going on here... but HE effectively pushed her away pretty damn good!! And yeah... this is often the result.. pretty common how she is feeling..
> 
> I can understand and sympathize with the resentment that you have been struggling with Anonymous07 (this is why you feel so disconnected & can't find it again)..... this is something that has to be overcome...talked through...your feeling *his remorse* , and it's authenticity .... to get those feelings back.. it's a meeting of the hearts...if he is not willing to put in this effort showing he cares about you..how he has hurt you in the past.. and how you have hurt him (be self aware)...both of you meeting each other half way... you are going to continue to feel alone.. and struggle here..
> 
> As others have suggested...getting out of your element, doing things together.. making shared memories... keep the communication going.. ask him what he wants to Do..where he'd like to go...do those little things to make that happen.. so he can feel YOUR care in wanting to get back to where you once was... Hopefully this will have him warming up to you..
> 
> How is the communication .. and has the sex situation been resolved ??


Thank you SA.

Communication is getting better. We're both more quick to apologize and work on an issue that is brought up. My husband hasn't refused me sex in a while, and the couple times he has(which can be a big trigger for me to past feelings), he is quick to give me a "rain check" for another time and try to make me feel cared for. It's a big change from things that were going on for the past couple years. I'm slightly hesitant about his actions, wondering if this will last long term, but it has been nice to see things getting better. 

I don't think I will ever understand why my husband did what he did once we got married, but I'm done trying to figure that out. He says he panicked and was overly stressed, as his reasons for his actions, but I don't think it will ever make sense to me. 



meson said:


> Anonymous07, I know what it is like to feel nothing for your spouse. When our marriage was at a low point, I felt nothing and was considering divorce. The good news is that we did fall in love with each other again. And if we did then you can too. The recommendations by Elegirl, Heartsbeating and Tall Average Guy are spot on. You need to address each other’s needs, not let time slip by watching TV and not really interacting and find ways to spend more time together even with a newborn.
> 
> What worked for me was that I took time to myself and improved me as a person first. This had the effect of making me more attractive to my wife. I became more the guy I was before we were married. Then I looked at our marriage issues and identified the biggest problem we had which was communication and worked on that. The trick was that I didn’t expect instant results. I realized that I had to reestablish the trust in communication before things would really change. This took a long time.
> 
> I know that you have worked recently to have him stop abusive behavior towards you and you have been successful. That lack of pain does not create an environment of attraction. It will take a lot of positive action on his part to erase the issues you have encountered. So to help this along, I recommend that you look inward and decide what you want and need and determine if your husband is capable of providing it. If you think that he can really return to fulfilling your needs, then work on solving one of your ongoing marital issues that you think you can solve. Then put yourself in his place. He will have needs that you are not meeting. Determine what they are and work on one or two irrespective of what he does. This will help to reestablish the environment you had when you were dating. After a while the interaction between you both should be more healthy and trusting.
> 
> At this point you need to start courting your husband again. Arrange activities to do with him that you both will enjoy. You don’t need to be alone; you can have quality time with him and your child as well. One thing that you could do is try to do more of the weekend chores on days when you are apart. If you can do this then you will start to minimize the time for arguments and open up time on the weekend for fun stuff. I work a four day work week and do most of my chores on Wednesday so that the weekend is more open for fun stuff. This could open a day for you all to go for a hike since you mention that you use to do this. Get a backpack carrier for your child and hike together as a family. One of my friends has a young child and this is what they do. This weekend they are going camping with a one year old.
> 
> The last ingredient to help you fall in love with your husband again is to develop a shared interest from which the both of you can grow together. For my wife and I it was backpacking. We just got back from a 90+ mile trek that we did with our sons with a Venture crew. It created some great bonding moments and memories.
> 
> Here is an example of what I did:
> Improved myself – Started an old hobby of mine again which got me into shape and made me happy. If I’m happy it is easier for my wife to be happy around me.
> 
> Worked on a problem – Communication; We had toxic communication. I simply started assuming the best with what she said. She learned that I was no longer sniping at her but genuinely interested in what she was saying.
> 
> Quality time – We started to have weekend breakfasts on fine china while we went over the weeks activities. This also addressed a communication issue.
> 
> Met more of her needs – She had a need for me to be more involved with the kids than I was. I worked on being a better parent. She was involved in our kids scouting activities and I joined her eventually becoming Scoutmaster for the boys Troop. This was also quality time.
> 
> Doing all of that plus more created an environment that was similar to when we dated. As she became comfortable with me again she began to meet more of my needs. We returned to the people we had fallen in love with which caused us to fall in love again. Good luck and be patient, it takes a long time to transition from indifference to love.


Thank you for sharing. It's nice to see a success story. 

We're definitely trying to do more together. Last night was kind of off, as I was exhausted from work(inventory sucks!), but hoping tonight will be better again. We do have a carrier for hiking and we used it once before, but haven't been since then. I'm going to look up more fun hikes for us to try out and plan one for sometime soon. It is all a work in progress.


----------



## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> Thank you SA.
> 
> Communication is getting better. We're both more quick to apologize and work on an issue that is brought up. My husband hasn't refused me sex in a while, and the couple times he has(which can be a big trigger for me to past feelings), he is quick to give me a "rain check" for another time and try to make me feel cared for. It's a big change from things that were going on for the past couple years. I'm slightly hesitant about his actions, wondering if this will last long term, but it has been nice to see things getting better.
> 
> I don't think I will ever understand why my husband did what he did once we got married, but I'm done trying to figure that out. He says he panicked and was overly stressed, as his reasons for his actions, but I don't think it will ever make sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for sharing. It's nice to see a success story.
> 
> We're definitely trying to do more together. Last night was kind of off, as I was exhausted from work(inventory sucks!), but hoping tonight will be better again. We do have a carrier for hiking and we used it once before, but haven't been since then. I'm going to look up more fun hikes for us to try out and plan one for sometime soon. It is all a work in progress.


So glad to see you working so hard on this and getting some results. Keep up the work. Keep the TV off and the research on cool hikes up. 

The book "Give and Take" has and interesting story about a couple that was fine, until the honeymoon. This might be similar to what happened to you two over the years. I have not finished the book, but he does indicate that these two resolved their issues.


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## cbnero

Recognizing our own behavior is a tough thing. Sorry I don't sugar coat it and if I'm off base I apologize. Lord knows I'm not perfect, many times I am wrong, and this could be one.

I stand by my statement that flirting with another man is not helpful to the marriage. Glad to hear you cut if off. Hopefully your husband sees the changes you are making and responds in turn.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> So glad to see you working so hard on this and getting some results. Keep up the work. Keep the TV off and the research on cool hikes up.
> 
> The book "Give and Take" has and interesting story about a couple that was fine, until the honeymoon. This might be similar to what happened to you two over the years. I have not finished the book, but he does indicate that these two resolved their issues.


I'll have to look into that book. 

This last week was really stressful(in-laws spent a few nights camped in our living room, my brother's wedding problems, etc.), so we got off track, but hoping to get back to working on things this week.


----------



## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I'll have to look into that book.
> 
> This last week was really stressful(in-laws spent a few nights camped in our living room, my brother's wedding problems, etc.), so we got off track, but hoping to get back to working on things this week.


The distractions of life will happen, and they will force you guys to spend less time together. What is important is that you realize it and work really hard to take whatever opportunity to get back to some quality time together. Remember not to put it off with thoughts like "Oh, one more day makes no difference." And after stress, and some distance there may be some rough waters ahead to re-connect. Just try to keep in mind that beyond the rough waters are a calm that is invaluable to you.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> The distractions of life will happen, and they will force you guys to spend less time together. What is important is that you realize it and work really hard to take whatever opportunity to get back to some quality time together. Remember not to put it off with thoughts like "Oh, one more day makes no difference." And after stress, and some distance there may be some rough waters ahead to re-connect. Just try to keep in mind that beyond the rough waters are a calm that is invaluable to you.


We already hit the rough waters last night with a lot of arguing. 

I said I didn't understand why his family could come out for vacation here, but missed our son's 1st birthday party. To me, that seems like the priorities are really messed up, but he defended the family he grew up with saying his BIL could only get such and such days off and so on, as if he didn't know ahead of time when our son was turning 1, but they can sure go to a local theme park out here last week. I don't get that, but if his family wants to be like that, oh well. What made me more upset was how much my husband jumped to defend them instead of being more comforting and understanding to me. 

Then we argued about my brother's wedding. I told him to back off because he kept pushing me to do things I wasn't comfortable with. I was fine watching our son outside for a bit and he kept telling me what to do, so I snapped back at him.  I don't know why he won't listen to what I said, as I said I'm fine and don't want to go inside just yet. I wasn't comfortable with how my brother was treating me, so I wanted some time outside away from it all. I kept telling my husband, "please stop, I said no", but he pushed more and then was mad at me for telling him off. 

It's been a frustrating week and now we have my cousin's wedding this weekend(back to back weddings. Blah). 

I also work tonight, so we'll have maybe an hour together before bed. Hopefully that time together goes well.


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## fightforher

Make the most of that hour. My suspicion is that it may not go smoothly. But try to calm down, listen, and speak from your feelings. 

There is another book you might take a look at: The scream free Marriage. 

This book starts out rather slow .. in the beginning he tells you for a few chapters how this may be the book for you. But once you get past that part, the book is actually rather good with examples of how couples fight over the same thing again and again with no progress. He enlightens you to other ways to resolve the conflict by taking care of what you need, and letting your spouse join in or not. I believe that this book can help a couple even if only one person reads the book. It teaches you how to calm down, and objectively look the situation so you can make some grown up resolutions to the conflict.

Sorry to hear that things are rough. But just try to clam down, try to figure out what a grown up will do, and then connect with your spouse.


----------



## HealthyinLove

As bad as this sounds, We had a huge fight/argument and after we made up,we've been good ever since.

My husband would always be on his computer or tablet, and never paid attention to me. I WAS GETTING bored and sick of cleaning, cooking and getting no attention. So I started going out with coworkers, and that caught his attention. 

-I think i was missing that caring, attention, love I used to get from him, when we were younger. Ever since then we are doing GREAT!!!! 

Sex life is good
Communicating more
Doing a lot of stuff together 

I can't be happier!


----------



## Anonymous07

HealthyinLove said:


> As bad as this sounds, We had a huge fight/argument and after we made up,we've been good ever since.
> 
> My husband would always be on his computer or tablet, and never paid attention to me. I WAS GETTING bored and sick of cleaning, cooking and getting no attention. So I started going out with coworkers, and that caught his attention.
> 
> -I think i was missing that caring, attention, love I used to get from him, when we were younger. Ever since then we are doing GREAT!!!!
> 
> Sex life is good
> Communicating more
> Doing a lot of stuff together
> 
> I can't be happier!


I'm not looking to cheat and don't think I would want to go that route. I don't think it's right to purposefully do that to get my husband's attention back.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Make the most of that hour. My suspicion is that it may not go smoothly. But try to calm down, listen, and speak from your feelings.
> 
> There is another book you might take a look at: The scream free Marriage.
> 
> This book starts out rather slow .. in the beginning he tells you for a few chapters how this may be the book for you. But once you get past that part, the book is actually rather good with examples of how couples fight over the same thing again and again with no progress. He enlightens you to other ways to resolve the conflict by taking care of what you need, and letting your spouse join in or not. I believe that this book can help a couple even if only one person reads the book. It teaches you how to calm down, and objectively look the situation so you can make some grown up resolutions to the conflict.
> 
> Sorry to hear that things are rough. But just try to clam down, try to figure out what a grown up will do, and then connect with your spouse.


I'll try to make the most of that hour. I feel better today compared to yesterday, so I know I can better handle things now. I just feel really disconnected again and frustrated with how he has been acting(rude, laughing at me, etc). Not sure if he thinks it's funny, but I already told him I don't like it.


----------



## fightforher

Do not cheat, it could backfire and end up really bad. Looks like it was a wake up call for somebody though. 

Good luck .. hope it turns out to be a good hour


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Anonymous07 said:


> We already hit the rough waters last night with a lot of arguing.
> 
> I said I didn't understand why his family could come out for vacation here, *but missed our son's 1st birthday party. To me, that seems like the priorities are really messed up, but he defended the family he grew up with saying his BIL could only get such and such days off and so on,* as if he didn't know ahead of time when our son was turning 1, but they can sure go to a local theme park out here last week. I don't get that, but if his family wants to be like that, oh well. What made me more upset was how much my husband jumped to defend them instead of being more comforting and understanding to me.


 One thing I learned early on in life -feeling like I wasn't all that wanted around as a teen is.. *to not expect much from family*... seriously.. I cared about who I married tremendously ....but outside of that bubble.. what his family gives, my own...I will be thankful for, but never to EXPECT ... because chances are, you will get let down... just as you are feeling here.. 

I don't know how far his family traveled to visit, but getting off work for traveling is not easy for a group of people around said jobs.. so if they even manage to show up at all, I'd take it as -they cared enough to be there.. 

I work for a lady who was complaining about her son not taking time off his job for the days that are convenient for her, and when she could cook or coming to a nieces B-party...and I couldn't help but think.. "but he's still taking the time, the expense to visit you...it's GOOD"..... 

You know I really like you Anon07 .....but I think you put your H on the defensive on this one..... and it escalated more than it should have....it sounds he was just thinking of his brother's situation & how it may not have been easy to get off work... 



> Then we argued about my brother's wedding. I told him to back off because he kept pushing me to do things I wasn't comfortable with. I was fine watching our son outside for a bit and he kept telling me what to do, so I snapped back at him.  I don't know why he won't listen to what I said, as I said I'm fine and don't want to go inside just yet. I wasn't comfortable with how my brother was treating me, so I wanted some time outside away from it all. I kept telling my husband, "please stop, I said no", but he pushed more and then was mad at me for telling him off.


 sounds like you both just fell to a really bad mood and just picked at each other at this point... it happens... 



> *I just feel really disconnected again and frustrated with how he has been acting(rude, laughing at me, etc). Not sure if he thinks it's funny, but I already told him I don't like it.*


Then he goes escalating things purposely -giving you a rude attitude, laughing...making light of it...when he KNOWS this is going to tick you off....Geez.. 

I'm thinking at this point.. get a copy of the "Love Dare'.. and throw it at him, tell him he can't do it.. and maybe he'll argue you are full of it.. so he'll try to prove you dead wrong.. (yeah stupid advice I know.. just what came to mind)...


----------



## Anonymous07

SimplyAmorous said:


> One thing I learned early on in life -feeling like I wasn't all that wanted around as a teen is.. *to not expect much from family*... seriously.. I cared about who I married tremendously ....but outside of that bubble.. what his family gives, my own...I will be thankful for, but never to EXPECT ... because chances are, you will get let down... just as you are feeling here..
> 
> I don't know how far his family traveled to visit, but getting off work for traveling is not easy for a group of people around said jobs.. so if they even manage to show up at all, I'd take it as -they cared enough to be there..
> 
> I work for a lady who was complaining about her son not taking time off his job for the days that are convenient for her, and when she could cook or coming to a nieces B-party...and I couldn't help but think.. "but he's still taking the time, the expense to visit you...it's GOOD".....
> 
> I'm thinking at this point.. get a copy of the "Love Dare'.. and throw it at him, tell him he can't do it.. and maybe he'll argue you are full of it.. so he'll try to prove you dead wrong.. (yeah stupid advice I know.. just what came to mind)...


I think I'd be more understanding if he didn't travel(4 hours away) out here as often as he does, but he is out here almost every month. He came(a city away) a week after my son's birthday, but didn't come visit us. He came out for a car he bought, spent some time looking around, and then went back home. I find it irritating, but know I need to stop expecting so much. It tends to just lead to disappointment, so I have to change that. 

My husband started the Love Dare back when I said I was done months ago and did it for maybe a week, then thought we were good, so he stopped. I think he did 4 dares or so, missing the others/forgetting to do it.


----------



## Anon Pink

You will fall in love again when feel loved by him again. So long as you're open to feeling his love that is.

It's not something that happens and once happens stays constant.

I had a very similar thread last year and if I had to estimate I'd say since this time last year I have spent perhaps a total of 6 months of feeling loving toward him.

It's not like, finding the switch and once it's turned on it stays on.

If you want to feel love toward him he has to set that stage and you have to be willing to be there. But you can't will yourself into feeling love toward him while you also feel marginalized.


----------



## Anonymous07

I know things have to change in order for us to get back to the good relationship we had, but I don't know if we'll get there. I want to work on things and have a good marriage, but it's been tough. 

Last night was another set back. My husband was acting like a child because he didn't get his way. We came back from an errand and our son was tired, so I tried putting him down for his nap. My husband wanted to go buy fish for dinner and said our son won't fall asleep anyways, so we should just go. I said no and wanted to let our son fall asleep, as to not have him overtired and be even more cranky. So my husband sat on the couch and played with his tablet while I did yard work in our backyard. After about half an hour, I check back inside and my husband basically says I told you so, as our son didn't fall asleep and just played in his crib. I tell him to go get our son then and go back outside to finish cleaning up. I hear my husband yell my name from the couch, as he wants me to come over to him instead of him getting off his lazy butt. I walk back inside and I ask him why he hasn't gotten our son yet. He gets pissed and says he won't cook that night(like it's a big deal, I cook almost every night anyways) and he storms off. I make dinner and he says he is going to eat something else(since he isn't eating what he wanted). 

Sadly that wasn't the first time he acted really stupid over a food issue(did this before over enchiladas - wanted more authentic ones instead of my "white" ones I make). Sometimes, I think I married a child. The easy going man I dated is not the one I am married to. It's so frustrating. :banghead: He didn't apologize last night and I just went to bed early, not wanting to even deal with it yet. I'm sure tonight will be interesting.


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## Anon Pink

To be honest A7, what you describe above is a pretty common scenario of two people not hearing the other and those same two people not making themselves heard. And in all fairness, LOL, been there myself many times!

Let's take your sons nap. 

To you, and I completely understand your reasoning, your sons nap was more important that your husbands desire for going out for dinner and getting the meal he wanted. While on the surface, the adult thing to do would be to put your desires on hold because as a parent, your child's needs come first. But to lots of husbands, and even mothers, the constant putting off to tend to the needs of the child feels like a rejection. It's not any one thing it's that it happens all the time, over and over, on lots of things and across the board. It begins to feel as if your needs are being completely marginalized in favor of catering to the child.

Now don't go off on child's needs and schedules and all that I get it! I was you in a BIG way. I didn't realize that constantly putting my husband off because of the baby, or the kids, or the whoever, made him feel completely unimportant.

How my H reacted to that was to passively shut himself down and when it got really bad he would just ignore all of us.

What your husband is doing is more assertive, though not particularly effective. He is giving in to your stated desire to put his needs on hold in favor of the baby, but he is letting you know he is not happy about it.

So, in a nut shell, you didn't hear his hurt that he was rejected again in favor of the child, and he didn't communicate his hurt very effectively.

So let replay the nap thing in a different way.

1. He gives in about going out for fish and before you go to put the baby down you give him a warm embrace and thank him for putting his desire aside in favor of making sure the baby got a good nap. You recognize his struggle to be a good father AND feel his wife's love at the same time.

Or 

2. You express your concern that if baby doesn't get a decent nap his going to be a little beast and ask your husband to really step up in hand on care when you get back home from getting the fish your husband wanted.

Men are taught, actively taught, not to acknowledge hurt feelings. So when that happens they only know how to get angry and slyly get back, which is exactly what your husband did.


----------



## CharlieParker

Why couldn't he get the fish himself? And did he ever show you how to make authentic enchiladas?


----------



## Anonymous07

CharlieParker said:


> Why couldn't he get the fish himself? And did he ever show you how to make authentic enchiladas?


I don't know. :scratchhead: He wanted us all to go to the store, I guess. 

He showed me how, but says I don't make them "right". So I don't try because I'd rather not have him say something about it and it's easier to make them my way.


----------



## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't know. :scratchhead: He wanted us all to go to the store, I guess.
> 
> He showed me how, but says I don't make them "right". So I don't try because I'd rather not have him say something about it and it's easier to make them my way.


My husband, hands-down, makes the best mac and cheese. He's made it for friends when they've come over for dinner. Yep, mac and cheese. They had third servings and raved about it. He's shown me how to make it but it's just not the same as when he makes it. So I've my own way of making this dish. First time I did this, he wore the 'what is she doing to mac and cheese' look. I asked him to roll with it and he did. Next time I made it, I saw him starting to get that look again - I said that he has his way of making it and that is golden! but I have my own way so would he still like me to make dinner? He said good point, he'd step out of my kitchen business and leave me to it.

Now that I've been eating differently (no mac and cheese days), there's a lot of chicken and brown rice on the menu. I do consider that's not how he wants to eat and welcome his advice and tips with cooking as it's not my strong point but there are times when he needs to respect that if I'm making dinner, then I'm making dinner. I hope that you don't 'shut down' with the enchiladas. Either make them together or own that this is your style of making them and that they're still served with love.


----------



## meson

The enchiladas I make are a family favorite. Last Sunday I barbecued a pork shoulder roast for 6+ hours until the meat was falling off the blade. Today I pulled the remainder off and made basic enchiladas with chili for the sauce. But the enchiladas aren't the point. Anon_pink makes a good observation that your husband may have had unstated importance to making them and that your refusal to cooperate was yet another rejection. I have been there before, I know what's its like. As Anon_P said you were right about the nap. Tactically it's the better move. But if you always make the priority the baby strategically it's the wrong move. 

There were many times a dozen years ago that my wife made those tactical decisions always in favor of the kids. It was the major source of resentment that helped jeopardize our marriage. I'm not saying that you should always do what he wants but rather to be sure not to let it get lopsided. He needs to know that you still consider him a priority in your life and it's not always about the kids.

In the long run a kids nap doesn't really matter just as enchiladas don't really matter. Go with the flow and don't fight the tide too much. Kids get awoken by lawn mowers and other things all too often.

Back to the BBQ pork roast; my daughter was coming back from college a couple of months ago so I got a roast perfect for the grill. It was something she especially and everyone enjoyed before when the derecho forced me to cook a roast or have it go bad due to a lack of power. One weekend after another it was out off for weather/activities until finally we were all back in town. I set a date for it last Sunday. My wife knew I was planning it for a long time and that it was the last weekend to do it. My daughter took a call about a block party a neighbor was throwing and we should bring sides and stuff. I knew when I heard the message that that was the end of my plans. I could have given up and sulked but I took a different route. I knew that my wife would want to go to the party and was looking forward to it. But I went ahead with my plans. I slow cooked the roast and cut a selection from it to take as an appetizer to the party. I went with the tide and enabled my wife to enjoy the occasion as well as setting up for my enchiladas. It was enough to be significant but not too much to upstage the hosts grill items. Everyone loved it but it wasn't what I had wanted originally at all since I don't really get I to block parties. Then today which was the day to show the kids how to make the enchiladas, they were all busy as was myself. But we had our family dinner and I discussed my secret ingredient and how to make them whole we all enjoyed the best enchiladas I have made. It was just in time before my daughter leaves again. 

I wasn't able to directly show my kids how to make them as I had wanted but they had learned enough to do it themselves anyway. The party spoiled my plans for a quite family time eating awsome BBQ but it did inspire my youngest son to make a desert (my daughter made a desert for the party, mint brownies). He wanted to make a pound cake the way I do using my great great grand mothers recipe for a real pound cake. Simultaneously this interfered with my wife's plans to make a peach cake with the best peaches we have had all season. But she like me went with the flow and helped them do the cake since I had to work. Sometimes it works well like this and sometimes it doesn't. It's not what I had intended but it was an adventure in togetherness that was still fun and enjoyable. 

Remember the bigger picture...


----------



## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> My husband, hands-down, makes the best mac and cheese. He's made it for friends when they've come over for dinner. Yep, mac and cheese. They had third servings and raved about it. He's shown me how to make it but it's just not the same as when he makes it. So I've my own way of making this dish. First time I did this, he wore the 'what is she doing to mac and cheese' look. I asked him to roll with it and he did. Next time I made it, I saw him starting to get that look again - I said that he has his way of making it and that is golden! but I have my own way so would he still like me to make dinner? He said good point, he'd step out of my kitchen business and leave me to it.
> 
> Now that I've been eating differently (no mac and cheese days), there's a lot of chicken and brown rice on the menu. I do consider that's not how he wants to eat and welcome his advice and tips with cooking as it's not my strong point but there are times when he needs to respect that if I'm making dinner, then I'm making dinner. I hope that you don't 'shut down' with the enchiladas. Either make them together or own that this is your style of making them and that they're still served with love.


I have no issue with making the food the way I do, but my husband doesn't always want to eat it if it's not to his style. When he was mad about the enchiladas, I told him to make them himself then and he said he would gladly do so. 

When we were dating, I mentioned that I'm not his mom and shouldn't be expected to act like her(including her cooking), but I feel like he expects that of me. I deal with 1 year old temper tantrums during the day and really didn't want a temper tantrum from my husband for not getting his way.


----------



## Anonymous07

meson said:


> The enchiladas I make are a family favorite. Last Sunday I barbecued a pork shoulder roast for 6+ hours until the meat was falling off the blade. Today I pulled the remainder off and made basic enchiladas with chili for the sauce. But the enchiladas aren't the point. Anon_pink makes a good observation that your husband may have had unstated importance to making them and that your refusal to cooperate was yet another rejection. I have been there before, I know what's its like. As Anon_P said you were right about the nap. Tactically it's the better move. But if you always make the priority the baby strategically it's the wrong move.
> 
> There were many times a dozen years ago that my wife made those tactical decisions always in favor of the kids. It was the major source of resentment that helped jeopardize our marriage. I'm not saying that you should always do what he wants but rather to be sure not to let it get lopsided. He needs to know that you still consider him a priority in your life and it's not always about the kids.
> 
> In the long run a kids nap doesn't really matter just as enchiladas don't really matter. Go with the flow and don't fight the tide too much. Kids get awoken by lawn mowers and other things all too often.
> 
> Back to the BBQ pork roast; my daughter was coming back from college a couple of months ago so I got a roast perfect for the grill. It was something she especially and everyone enjoyed before when the derecho forced me to cook a roast or have it go bad due to a lack of power. One weekend after another it was out off for weather/activities until finally we were all back in town. I set a date for it last Sunday. My wife knew I was planning it for a long time and that it was the last weekend to do it. My daughter took a call about a block party a neighbor was throwing and we should bring sides and stuff. I knew when I heard the message that that was the end of my plans. I could have given up and sulked but I took a different route. I knew that my wife would want to go to the party and was looking forward to it. But I went ahead with my plans. I slow cooked the roast and cut a selection from it to take as an appetizer to the party. I went with the tide and enabled my wife to enjoy the occasion as well as setting up for my enchiladas. It was enough to be significant but not too much to upstage the hosts grill items. Everyone loved it but it wasn't what I had wanted originally at all since I don't really get I to block parties. Then today which was the day to show the kids how to make the enchiladas, they were all busy as was myself. But we had our family dinner and I discussed my secret ingredient and how to make them whole we all enjoyed the best enchiladas I have made. It was just in time before my daughter leaves again.
> 
> I wasn't able to directly show my kids how to make them as I had wanted but they had learned enough to do it themselves anyway. The party spoiled my plans for a quite family time eating awsome BBQ but it did inspire my youngest son to make a desert (my daughter made a desert for the party, mint brownies). He wanted to make a pound cake the way I do using my great great grand mothers recipe for a real pound cake. Simultaneously this interfered with my wife's plans to make a peach cake with the best peaches we have had all season. But she like me went with the flow and helped them do the cake since I had to work. Sometimes it works well like this and sometimes it doesn't. It's not what I had intended but it was an adventure in togetherness that was still fun and enjoyable.
> 
> Remember the bigger picture...


It sounds like it all worked out and you didn't throw a fit over it. My husband threw a fit because he didn't get to eat what he wanted, acting just as bad as our 1 year old son. 

There are many times I don't get my way and we do what my husband wants because he is more picky than I am. I can easily eat left overs for lunch, but my husband wants something new and doesn't want to cook(wanting me to make something). I'd rather relax and eat what we already have made, but many times still do something for him. His needs and our son's needs always come before my own, but it's frustrating that he won't put my needs high on his list. I usually don't get my needs met unless I ask for it(usually multiple times) and even then he tends to try to "get even"(example: want a massage after a long day and he wants one in return the same night). I won't say he is always like that, as there are times when he is really caring/giving, but it's not as common of his typical behavior(his needs first). 

I think if he had handled things differently, I would have been much more happy to say we should go, but because he acted like a toddler child, it just pushed me away.


----------



## COGypsy

Anonymous07 said:


> It sounds like it all worked out and you didn't throw a fit over it. My husband threw a fit because he didn't get to eat what he wanted, acting just as bad as our 1 year old son.
> 
> There are many times I don't get my way and we do what my husband wants because he is more picky than I am. I can easily eat left overs for lunch, but my husband wants something new and doesn't want to cook(wanting me to make something). I'd rather relax and eat what we already have made, but many times still do something for him. His needs and our son's needs always come before my own, but it's frustrating that he won't put my needs high on his list. I usually don't get my needs met unless I ask for it(usually multiple times) and even then he tends to try to "get even"(example: want a massage after a long day and he wants one in return the same night). I won't say he is always like that, as there are times when he is really caring/giving, but it's not as common of his typical behavior(his needs first).
> 
> I think if he had handled things differently, I would have been much more happy to say we should go, but because he acted like a toddler child, it just pushed me away.


I have to say, your husband sounds like most of the guys I grew up with--and moved far, far away from! He's Hispanic, right? I hate to generalize because I know plenty of Hispanic men that aren't spoiled babies (okay, that's kind of harsh)--but it's really, really hard to overcome the culture in that area. I'm white, but grew up on the border and just knew so many guys that went from their mother's house to their wife's and expected the same treatment they'd had with mom. The life of a son--and god forbid he's the oldest or the only!--in a Hispanic house seems pretty awesome. If I were treated that way, I'd fight pretty hard against changing that dynamic as well! Is he first-generation?


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## fightforher

Years ago, you H was willing to give more and take care of your needs. But something along the path hurt him so he is now taking care of himself only. That is, he is going to do whatever he can to make him feel good. Thus he acts like a child.

It could be as simple as he thinks that you devote more of your energy to your son now, and put his needs second. I don't know, but something has made him become defensive and looking out for only himself.


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## Anonymous07

COGypsy said:


> I have to say, your husband sounds like most of the guys I grew up with--and moved far, far away from! He's Hispanic, right? I hate to generalize because I know plenty of Hispanic men that aren't spoiled babies (okay, that's kind of harsh)--but it's really, really hard to overcome the culture in that area. I'm white, but grew up on the border and just knew so many guys that went from their mother's house to their wife's and expected the same treatment they'd had with mom. The life of a son--and god forbid he's the oldest or the only!--in a Hispanic house seems pretty awesome. If I were treated that way, I'd fight pretty hard against changing that dynamic as well! Is he first-generation?


I like to think he is different from the stereotype, but it's getting hard to look past. 

He is Hispanic and was born/raised in Mexico. He came here(Ca) at 18. I admire how hard working he is(was?) and how much he has had to overcome(language barrier/spent many years learning English, starting off in a factory job and now in a white collar profession, then earning his bachelor's degree, etc.). He is the oldest child/first born, but when dating that made him seem more responsible, as he took care of his siblings(or so he said) and was the "man" of the house when his parents went away(on vacation or back to Mexico for a short time period). 

His mom is horrible with babying her kids, although my FIL really pushes her to let them grow up. I really like my FIL, but he tends to always give in to what my MIL wants(she still makes dinner for her grown son-BIL- and will clean his place when she visits. Eww.). I knew a lot of this while dating and had many discussions with my husband about it. I always talked about not being his mom and how I will not act like her(don't expect me to wait on him hand and foot. He can take care of things himself, too). My husband always said he was fine with this, would gladly help out around the house(chores/cooking) and will help with childcare. He did for a while, but has since stopped, letting me do the work.


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## COGypsy

I think that no one exactly fits the stereotype and one of the beautiful things about Mexican culture is the emphasis on family and responsibility to the family unit. It's certainly an attractive quality, especially if you want a traditional family yourself. His accomplishments are absolutely admirable, but there's two sides to all of it, as it sounds like you're beginning to see.

However, what I've seen again and again is that stereotypes exist for a reason. It's incredibly hard to get rid of expectations that are so ingrained that we don't even know we have them. Maybe instead of focusing on him "meeting your needs" spin it as "taking care of the family"? 

It's rough, I totally feel for you. I couldn't hack that kind of family dynamic. As much as I love parts about where I grew up, I knew I wouldn't ever find a relationship there, for just that reason.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Years ago, you H was willing to give more and take care of your needs. But something along the path hurt him so he is now taking care of himself only. That is, he is going to do whatever he can to make him feel good. Thus he acts like a child.
> 
> It could be as simple as he thinks that you devote more of your energy to your son now, and put his needs second. I don't know, but something has made him become defensive and looking out for only himself.


It is something that happened, but I don't know what. Considering our problems started on our honeymoon(refusing sex, pushing me away), I don't understand what the heck happened. It did get better for a while, which led to our surprise pregnancy, but has gotten worse ever since. There are small moments of happiness, which seem to give me some glimmer of hope, but we tend to just fall back into many of the same issues. We did fix the sex issue, as he no longer turns me down, so one issue is gone, but we still have a lot to work on.


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## Anonymous07

COGypsy said:


> I think that no one exactly fits the stereotype and one of the beautiful things about Mexican culture is the emphasis on family and responsibility to the family unit. It's certainly an attractive quality, especially if you want a traditional family yourself. His accomplishments are absolutely admirable, but there's two sides to all of it, as it sounds like you're beginning to see.
> 
> However, what I've seen again and again is that stereotypes exist for a reason. It's incredibly hard to get rid of expectations that are so ingrained that we don't even know we have them. Maybe instead of focusing on him "meeting your needs" spin it as "taking care of the family"?
> 
> It's rough, I totally feel for you. I couldn't hack that kind of family dynamic. As much as I love parts about where I grew up, I knew I wouldn't ever find a relationship there, for just that reason.


I always loved the emphasis on family, as family is so important to me. My extended family is very close knit and I love that. They have been a huge support to me over my life time, especially through rough times for surgeries and other difficulties. I did love how respectful he is(was? he seems to treat me the worst now) and how he helped out his family, but it's flipped to become an issue. 

He has become more Americanized, but it almost seems like he is conflicted on who he is supposed to be. When he is around his family, he acts differently than when it's just our family. I asked him if he realized that and he said no, he thinks he always acts the same.


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## Anon Pink

So you never got to the bottom of why he gave you the cold shoulder on your honeymoon and for a time period afterward? Why not?


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> So you never got to the bottom of why he gave you the cold shoulder on your honeymoon and for a time period afterward? Why not?


Because he never really gave me a reason. He said he "didn't know why" and later said it was because of "stress"(??), but couldn't give any more info. We talked about the issue many, many times, but that's all I could get out of him. I can't bring it up again though or he'll be upset for bringing up a part problem.


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## Anonymous07

For those in troubled marriages, does your family know about it? 

I've kept all the issues we've had to ourselves, but I feel like my parents have a feeling something is going on.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> It is something that happened, but I don't know what. Considering our problems started on our honeymoon(refusing sex, pushing me away), I don't understand what the heck happened. It did get better for a while, which led to our surprise pregnancy, but has gotten worse ever since. There are small moments of happiness, which seem to give me some glimmer of hope, but we tend to just fall back into many of the same issues. We did fix the sex issue, as he no longer turns me down, so one issue is gone, but we still have a lot to work on.


I have been reading a book called "Give & Take" (same author as "His needs, Her needs." I am not very far along (slow reader). However the example couple he talks about in the book had gone through the exact same thing. Everything was good, then the honeymoon - lack of sex and the husband complaining of stress and other things. And then years of marriage with mostly creating more distance. It is almost like I am reading your story on TAM and in this book at the same time.

The author indicates he was able to help the couple re-connect and love again. But I am not that far in the book yet. Just through the first few assignments he gave to the couple which started the progress.

You might try this book. The author is known to be good, and the story fits you so closely that it might really hit the spot.

As for your last question, I kept all the dirt from my parents in my first marriage. They were both "shocked" and "pleased" when I decided to move on.


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## fightforher

Technical issues - deleting duplicate post


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## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> I have no issue with making the food the way I do, but my husband doesn't always want to eat it if it's not to his style. When he was mad about the enchiladas, I told him to make them himself then and he said he would gladly do so.
> 
> When we were dating, I mentioned that I'm not his mom and shouldn't be expected to act like her(including her cooking), but I feel like he expects that of me. I deal with 1 year old temper tantrums during the day and really didn't want a temper tantrum from my husband for not getting his way.


I misunderstood what had happened.

I can't help but wonder what he is angry about? Does he relate the cooking to how much you love him or something? How did he respond when you stated your position while dating? 

Have you calmly told him that it hurts your feelings when he rejects your food and ask for his input on how you can go about changing this together. 

Sorry if I've overlooked this - but are you both open to a counseling?


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## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> For those in troubled marriages, does your family know about it?
> 
> I've kept all the issues we've had to ourselves, but I feel like my parents have a feeling something is going on.


I don't think it's wise to share with your family.


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous07 said:


> Because he never really gave me a reason. He said he "didn't know why" and later said it was because of "stress"(??), but couldn't give any more info. We talked about the issue many, many times, but that's all I could get out of him. I can't bring it up again though or he'll be upset for bringing up a part problem.


I don't see how you can move past something that wasn't put to bed. Rug sweeping a problem only ensures that it will work itself back to the surface again, and again.

You asked how to fall back in love with your husband. I am changing my answer.

You don't. You don't love someone who refuses to be honest. You don't trust people who can't be honest. He knew, he knew what was going on he simply refuses to be honest about it. Maybe he is ashamed and that's why he refuses, who knows. But until that time period has been examined and understood for the lessons you both need to glean from it, falling in love with him again is like digging your own grave.


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## jld

Anon Pink said:


> You will fall in love again when feel loved by him again.
> 
> It's not something that happens and once happens stays constant.


:iagree:


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## Anon Pink

Heee heee JLD, take my own advice much?


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## jld

Anon Pink said:


> Heee heee JLD, take my own advice much?


When he earns your love and respect, he will get it, my dear.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I have been reading a book called "Give & Take" (same author as "His needs, Her needs." I am not very far along (slow reader). However the example couple he talks about in the book had gone through the exact same thing. Everything was good, then the honeymoon - lack of sex and the husband complaining of stress and other things. And then years of marriage with mostly creating more distance. It is almost like I am reading your story on TAM and in this book at the same time.
> 
> The author indicates he was able to help the couple re-connect and love again. But I am not that far in the book yet. Just through the first few assignments he gave to the couple which started the progress.
> 
> You might try this book. The author is known to be good, and the story fits you so closely that it might really hit the spot.
> 
> As for your last question, I kept all the dirt from my parents in my first marriage. They were both "shocked" and "pleased" when I decided to move on.


I looked into that book last night and think it looks good. I'll have to show my husband tonight.


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## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> I misunderstood what had happened.
> 
> I can't help but wonder what he is angry about? Does he relate the cooking to how much you love him or something? How did he respond when you stated your position while dating?
> 
> Have you calmly told him that it hurts your feelings when he rejects your food and ask for his input on how you can go about changing this together.
> 
> Sorry if I've overlooked this - but are you both open to a counseling?


His "love language" is Acts of Service, so I've always tried to do things for him. He really doesn't have to worry about anything other than work because I take care of our son, the cleaning, cooking, errands, etc. When we were dating, he said he would have no issue with helping out cooking, cleaning, with child care, etc and said he wants to help. 

I did tell him his criticism of the food I made hurt and he backed off, not saying as much, but still occasionally does. He has his "baby" days as I call them(not to him, just thinking in my head), when acts like our 1 year old son and will revert back to rude behavior. I asked him how I can make certain foods better and he just says they're fine. 

We talked about counseling, but he's always been hesitant to spend the money on it and then we'd have to find childcare, too. The only people who have watched our son are family members and he doesn't want them to know about our marriage problems.


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> I don't see how you can move past something that wasn't put to bed. Rug sweeping a problem only ensures that it will work itself back to the surface again, and again.
> 
> You asked how to fall back in love with your husband. I am changing my answer.
> 
> You don't. You don't love someone who refuses to be honest. You don't trust people who can't be honest. He knew, he knew what was going on he simply refuses to be honest about it. Maybe he is ashamed and that's why he refuses, who knows. But until that time period has been examined and understood for the lessons you both need to glean from it, falling in love with him again is like digging your own grave.


Well his most constant answer more lately has been stress. He was stressed out, so he pulled away. I just didn't see it as an excuse myself, so I always kept pushing for more details, but all he ever says is that he was stressed out. We did have a crazy first year of marriage(new job, pregnancy, graduation, baby), but I still don't see it as any excuse to pull away. I don't know that I will ever understand why he did what he did.


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous07 said:


> Well his most constant answer more lately has been stress. He was stressed out, so he pulled away. I just didn't see it as an excuse myself, so I always kept pushing for more details, but all he ever says is that he was stressed out. We did have a crazy first year of marriage(new job, pregnancy, graduation, baby), but I still don't see it as any excuse to pull away. I don't know that I will ever understand why he did what he did.


And neither will he and it will happen again because life is messy.

I encourage many honest conversations about how his stress level affected you so deeply you fell out of love with him as a result. It's important to identify his tendency to shut down and pull away.

But honestly, I don't buy it. The vast majority of men like sex to reduce stress, whereas with most women the need to reduce the stress to like sex.

Did he not notice how it hurt you? Did you not make this clear to him at the time and or afterwards?

What would he do if you insisted he talk about what he stresses were at how he felt about you during that time? Did he blame you for adding to his stress? You need these answers before you can move forward.


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> And neither will he and it will happen again because life is messy.
> 
> I encourage many honest conversations about how his stress level affected you so deeply you fell out of love with him as a result. It's important to identify his tendency to shut down and pull away.
> 
> But honestly, I don't buy it. The vast majority of men like sex to reduce stress, whereas with most women the need to reduce the stress to like sex.
> 
> Did he not notice how it hurt you? Did you not make this clear to him at the time and or afterwards?
> 
> What would he do if you insisted he talk about what he stresses were at how he felt about you during that time? Did he blame you for adding to his stress? You need these answers before you can move forward.


He started exercising more lately to help with stress after me begging him for well over a year to actively do something about his stress levels(exercise, journal, dance, something. I showed him many options, but for a long while he said it was stupid). 

He knew how much it hurt me. I never hid that from him and many nights cried myself to sleep for months on end. I tried to talk to him about sex a lot, but for a long while he wouldn't talk about it. It took months for him to start openly talking about sex. 

He blamed me for a lot of things. He blamed me for getting pregnant(surprise pregnancy after being married 3 months) and for pushing him at work. The pregnancy was "my fault" because I always wanted sex. Supposedly, if we didn't have as much sex, we wouldn't have gotten pregnant(BC failed). I had also helped get him his new job(relative works for same company and gave his resume to another department) because his previous job had huge sales requirements which stressed him out a lot, so he did like the new job(no sales requirements), but then said I was pushing him too much(he's been in the same position now for 2 years and hasn't advanced). We're just making ends meet and he complains a lot about finances, yet doesn't put a huge effort into advancing his career. He will from time to time, really step up to try to advance, but then gets scared and feels defeated after a bad interview or other issue. 

In the past, I was always very reassuring. Always there for him and trying to help him stay confident, that the right job will be there and we'll always find a way to make things work out. I work part-time opposite hours of him, so I am also working, not just letting him make all the money. I'd sit and listen to him vent day after day about the same thing(his manager, job issues, and financial stress), but then got burnt out. I already told him multiple ways to deal and was tired of hearing the exact same complaint, so I told him I needed a break. I couldn't stand hearing the same issue for months on end, and yet he never takes any advice I say. He was really mad at me over that and now blames me for being unsupportive, so he can't do as well at work.


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## Anonymous07

intheory said:


> When I read this comment, it felt like a light-bulb going off in my head. As if I were coming across a truth.
> 
> I think people always retain their first culture. Always. It is not easily modified or changed.
> 
> Anon07; do you think that part of your H's attraction to you was that you are "white". In coming to the U.S. and having to fit in and assimilate; could marrying you have seemed like a "step up", towards fitting in and becoming more American?
> 
> That makes sense psychologically. But I tell you, people do not change from their formative culture and upbringing. Especially if he was *18* when he came here. Peoples' character is largely formed by the time they are about 7.
> 
> So, if your decision making is based on him somehow changing his outlook on women, homemaking, family dynamics; I would say you are fighting a losing battle.
> 
> Why did he assure you in the beginning that there wouldn't be any problem with him doing chores, etc.? Because he was infatuated with you and probably the most sexually attracted to you he has ever been. He probably believed he could adapt to you.  But culture/family of origin influence is trumping his good intentions.


I don't know. Although his actions all through dating showed he was willing to always help out. He was great about cooking and cleaning. Any time we were at my parents or relatives, he was quick to offer to help. Our relationship was really nice. 

Throughout our time dating, he talked a lot about how his parents viewed things, which obviously influenced him. His mom is from a rural town, so she is more "old fashion"(women do all the work), but his dad is from the city. He has a degree in agriculture and had a good job working for the government. He always helped out his wife with chores and other things when needed(that's what my husband told me), not the stereotypical "macho".


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## COGypsy

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't know. Although his actions all through dating showed he was willing to always help out. He was great about cooking and cleaning. Any time we were at my parents or relatives, he was quick to offer to help. Our relationship was really nice.
> 
> Throughout our time dating, he talked a lot about how his parents viewed things, which obviously influenced him. His mom is from a rural town, so she is more "old fashion"(women do all the work), but his dad is from the city. He has a degree in agriculture and had a good job working for the government. *He always helped out his wife with chores and other things when needed *(that's what my husband told me), not the stereotypical "macho".


This makes me nuts. Just nuts. "Helped out with chores" implies that he had no responsibility for the chores in the first place. Like it's a favor. It's kind of like calling it "babysitting" when dad stay home with kids. Nope, it's not babysitting, it's your freakin' kid with half your DNA. I "help out" my sister with getting her apartment set up. I "babysit" my friend's kid. But I unpack my house and (god forbid!) put my own kid to bed. See the difference?

Just because someone has manners as a houseguest, doesn't mean they think it's a job they OUGHT to do day in and day out. But if it's notable that his father did things around the house, then it's clear that no one really thought that was his job anyway, when in fact if he made babies, ate food and wore clothes, then childcare, cooking and cleaning and laundry were in his job description by virtue of being one of the adults in the home.


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## Anonymous07

Ok, so maybe it's worded a bit off, but the point is that he(FIL) did his share of household duties, although my MIL would often tell him not to(ugh). 

My husband never complained about cooking or cleaning when he was on his own. It had to be done, so he did it. When I came over, he was happy to cook for me. We had many discussions about marriage and expectations, too. I didn't see characteristics of the "macho" stereotype. I would think it would be hard to fake it for the 3 years we dated before getting married, if he really felt differently. I just don't understand his actions now.


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous07 said:


> He started exercising more lately to help with stress after me begging him for well over a year to actively do something about his stress levels(exercise, journal, dance, something. I showed him many options, but for a long while he said it was stupid).
> 
> He knew how much it hurt me. I never hid that from him and many nights cried myself to sleep for months on end. I tried to talk to him about sex a lot, but for a long while he wouldn't talk about it. It took months for him to start openly talking about sex.
> 
> He blamed me for a lot of things. He blamed me for getting pregnant(surprise pregnancy after being married 3 months) and for pushing him at work. The pregnancy was "my fault" because I always wanted sex. Supposedly, if we didn't have as much sex, we wouldn't have gotten pregnant(BC failed). I had also helped get him his new job(relative works for same company and gave his resume to another department) because his previous job had huge sales requirements which stressed him out a lot, so he did like the new job(no sales requirements), but then said I was pushing him too much(he's been in the same position now for 2 years and hasn't advanced). We're just making ends meet and he complains a lot about finances, yet doesn't put a huge effort into advancing his career. He will from time to time, really step up to try to advance, but then gets scared and feels defeated after a bad interview or other issue.
> 
> In the past, I was always very reassuring. Always there for him and trying to help him stay confident, that the right job will be there and we'll always find a way to make things work out. I work part-time opposite hours of him, so I am also working, not just letting him make all the money. I'd sit and listen to him vent day after day about the same thing(his manager, job issues, and financial stress), but then got burnt out. I already told him multiple ways to deal and was tired of hearing the exact same complaint, so I told him I needed a break. I couldn't stand hearing the same issue for months on end, and yet he never takes any advice I say. He was really mad at me over that and now blames me for being unsupportive, so he can't do as well at work.


When we had been married for about 5 years, my husband wrote a sales proposal for the first time in his new position. He showed it to me, I assumed at the time to red letter edit. Wrong! Wrong wrong wrong! Though it was just a few corrections, he was not looking for corrections, he was proud of his first proposal and I totally, thoroughly and completely blew it! When I finally, dumb dumb that I am, noticed his crestfallen expression I felt like there was nothing I could do to make up for what I had already done. It was one of those moments you can never take back.

I made a vow, that I have almost kept, to never advise on work matters and to only praise. Sometimes I push him to be more proactive in dealing with personnel conflicts at work, but that is minimal.

I'm not suggesting you've done anything as wrong as what I did. And I'm not suggesting that your H is blameless. What I am suggesting is that you both are young and he needs, yes needs, to feel your support in his efforts to provide for his family.

He is young and dealing with work stress and deadlines, and pressures and people at work may not be very good managing. He has probably made some mistakes along the way and if he was less passive aggressive it would be easier for him to learn from those mistakes. But the last thing he needs while he adjusts to the pressure of providing for his family is his wife telling him to get a promotion, make more money, find a better job... While yes he might need to do all of that, the way to get there is for you to build him up, not to out pressure on him to earn more.

Having said all that, he sounds like he had regrets immediately after getting married. He pulled away on the honeymoon for god sake! I feel like it's really important that he come clean about his regrets. I'm pretty sure they were probably just the paralyzingly fear of "OMG I can't have a wife! What the hell am I doing!" And because he is ...passive aggressive...it must be your fault because you're the wife!

This is why it is vital that he come clean on what was happening in his head. Stress...Bull! Okay he admitted that he blamed you for the unplanned pregnancy (BTW me too! 3 months later a big oh SH!T!, but that was almost 30 years ago!) but did he admit how stupid that is?

My marriage has been okay. Some really unhappy years and some fairly happy years and some wonderful years as a family. My relationship with my husband is difficult because, I think, we have so many years of not talking, not working on us, just punching the clock.

If you want this marriage to last, and that's your first decision,you both have some serious work to do. He can't pull away each time thing don't go his way. He just can't. It can't be allowed and he has to know this without a doubt.

You're going to have to insist on learning some relationship skills as a team. Pick any one of the dozens of relationship self help books around..his need her needs, or 5 languages of love, and read them together and then discuss each chapter. This is the nearly free way of getting some good help.

Or you could find a marriage counselor and make appointments and insist he attend.

Right now you aren't feeling any love for him and who can blame you. But if you want this marriage to last, he has to stop being an ass and learn to be a man. And you have to stop pushing him the wrong way and start encouraging him the right way.

Don't let things get rug swept. Or you'll be me in 30 years. Too old to leave and too young for the old folks home! :rofl:


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> When we had been married for about 5 years, my husband wrote a sales proposal for the first time in his new position. He showed it to me, I assumed at the time to red letter edit. Wrong! Wrong wrong wrong! Though it was just a few corrections, he was not looking for corrections, he was proud of his first proposal and I totally, thoroughly and completely blew it! When I finally, dumb dumb that I am, noticed his crestfallen expression I felt like there was nothing I could do to make up for what I had already done. It was one of those moments you can never take back.
> 
> I made a vow, that I have almost kept, to never advise on work matters and to only praise. Sometimes I push him to be more proactive in dealing with personnel conflicts at work, but that is minimal.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you've done anything as wrong as what I did. And I'm not suggesting that your H is blameless. What I am suggesting is that you both are young and he needs, yes needs, to feel your support in his efforts to provide for his family.
> 
> He is young and dealing with work stress and deadlines, and pressures and people at work may not be very good managing. He has probably made some mistakes along the way and if he was less passive aggressive it would be easier for him to learn from those mistakes. But the last thing he needs while he adjusts to the pressure of providing for his family is his wife telling him to get a promotion, make more money, find a better job... While yes he might need to do all of that, the way to get there is for you to build him up, not to out pressure on him to earn more.


My husband wanted another job and was looking for one, so I mentioned it to a relative and that is when she helped get him into the job he has now. He says he loves his job, but he's been stuck in this same position for 2 years now, not going anywhere. He's put in a lot more effort lately to move up(only in the last few months), but I don't know why he hadn't done that all along. Very frustrating in my opinion, but I've kept it to myself as to not make him mad. 

I was a very supportive wife, always reassuring him. I did that for the first year and some months of our marriage, but it always went in one ear and out the other. He didn't take me seriously and if someone else said exactly what I did, he would think "oh, that makes sense" and tell it to me. Ugh! So I got fed up/burnt out, and backed off a lot. I'm trying again to keep my mouth shut and be the supportive wife, but it's been difficult to get back into that role. 



Anon Pink said:


> Having said all that, he sounds like he had regrets immediately after getting married. He pulled away on the honeymoon for god sake! I feel like it's really important that he come clean about his regrets. I'm pretty sure they were probably just the paralyzingly fear of "OMG I can't have a wife! What the hell am I doing!" And because he is ...passive aggressive...it must be your fault because you're the wife!
> 
> This is why it is vital that he come clean on what was happening in his head. Stress...Bull! Okay he admitted that he blamed you for the unplanned pregnancy (BTW me too! 3 months later a big oh SH!T!, but that was almost 30 years ago!) but did he admit how stupid that is?
> 
> My marriage has been okay. Some really unhappy years and some fairly happy years and some wonderful years as a family. My relationship with my husband is difficult because, I think, we have so many years of not talking, not working on us, just punching the clock.
> 
> If you want this marriage to last, and that's your first decision,you both have some serious work to do. He can't pull away each time thing don't go his way. He just can't. It can't be allowed and he has to know this without a doubt.
> 
> You're going to have to insist on learning some relationship skills as a team. Pick any one of the dozens of relationship self help books around..his need her needs, or 5 languages of love, and read them together and then discuss each chapter. This is the nearly free way of getting some good help.
> 
> Or you could find a marriage counselor and make appointments and insist he attend.
> 
> Right now you aren't feeling any love for him and who can blame you. But if you want this marriage to last, he has to stop being an ass and learn to be a man. And you have to stop pushing him the wrong way and start encouraging him the right way.
> 
> Don't let things get rug swept. Or you'll be me in 30 years. Too old to leave and too young for the old folks home! :rofl:


He finally did admit over the weekend to absolutely freaking out after our wedding. He felt overwhelmed with starting a new job(right after the honeymoon) and feeling financially responsible for me(not just himself). I'm glad he admitted to that, but it took a lot of prodding to just get him to say it. Sadly, this ("paralyzingly fear of "OMG I can't have a wife! What the hell am I doing!") is right on for how he felt.  He doesn't handle stress and change well, and I could see some of that(minimal issue) while dating, but never would have thought to this extent/level. He wouldn't say it's a stupid reaction though, as he felt his reaction was "normal" in a way. 

I thought I had done a fairly good job of letting go of much of the resentment I had, but I guess not. Being there at my cousin's wedding this last weekend and watching how happy she is with her new husband, I couldn't help but feel so much anger(just emotional) for how my marriage is and all the bs my husband put me through. Then my brother-in-law came over with his girlfriend on Sunday and they announced that they're expecting! Big surprise, but they are happy and making plans for the future. While I don't exactly agree with how they're doing things, they are doing better than my marriage. He is so much more supportive and loving toward her than my husband was toward me. And again, that resentment/anger/sadness came up, looking at how my own life has been. I know we can't go back in time to redo what happened, so I truly have to let it all go to move forward, but it's been a tough weekend for me. I broke down crying this morning because it has been so long since I have really been happy. 

I don't know if he would be up for counseling, but I have been looking at the book Give and Take. I know tonight will be rough, but my husband has to know that I'm really at the end of my rope.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> He finally did admit over the weekend to absolutely freaking out after our wedding. He felt overwhelmed with starting a new job(right after the honeymoon) and feeling financially responsible for me(not just himself). I'm glad he admitted to that, but it took a lot of prodding to just get him to say it. Sadly, this ("paralyzingly fear of "OMG I can't have a wife! What the hell am I doing!") is right on for how he felt.  He doesn't handle stress and change well, and I could see some of that(minimal issue) while dating, but never would have thought to this extent/level. He wouldn't say it's a stupid reaction though, as he felt his reaction was "normal" in a way.
> 
> I thought I had done a fairly good job of letting go of much of the resentment I had, but I guess not. Being there at my cousin's wedding this last weekend and watching how happy she is with her new husband, I couldn't help but feel so much anger(just emotional) for how my marriage is and all the bs my husband put me through. Then my brother-in-law came over with his girlfriend on Sunday and they announced that they're expecting! Big surprise, but they are happy and making plans for the future. While I don't exactly agree with how they're doing things, they are doing better than my marriage. He is so much more supportive and loving toward her than my husband was toward me. And again, that resentment/anger/sadness came up, looking at how my own life has been. I know we can't go back in time to redo what happened, so I truly have to let it all go to move forward, but it's been a tough weekend for me. I broke down crying this morning because it has been so long since I have really been happy.
> 
> I don't know if he would be up for counseling, but I have been looking at the book Give and Take. I know tonight will be rough, but my husband has to know that I'm really at the end of my rope.


Well, that is at least a step to figure out what freaks him out. Sounds like he feels a great responsibility to take care of you. That is nice that he wants to take that responsibility. But perhaps you need to find a way to let him know that you are in this TOGETHER. That is, somehow he should find comfort in the fact that you are there to support him as well as he is there to support you. You two are in this to pull the weight together. If he can just find a way to express his feelings of the burden that is upon him, perhaps he can also feel your side of the story too. And that may make him feel better.

Sorry about your weekend. Weddings are suppose to be a happy celebration. But when you have a tough time in your marriage the wedding only emphasizes what you are missing. Makes you feel crummy that the world has more happiness than you do. 

I have not finished reading "Give & Take" yet. I am a slow reader. And this weekend I did not have time to do any reading. But after reading a few chapters I now am looking for "the giver" and "the taker" in my family and see their sides in a new light.


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## cbnero

Still sounds to me like you are putting him in charge of your happiness. Especially making comparisons, that's a sure way to end the marriage and build resentment. It's really your choice to make the best of it or not. Otherwise you're just looking for excuses. Life and love are what you make it. If you focus on searching for problems you'll be sure to find them.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Well, that is at least a step to figure out what freaks him out. Sounds like he feels a great responsibility to take care of you. That is nice that he wants to take that responsibility. But perhaps you need to find a way to let him know that you are in this TOGETHER. That is, somehow he should find comfort in the fact that you are there to support him as well as he is there to support you. You two are in this to pull the weight together. If he can just find a way to express his feelings of the burden that is upon him, perhaps he can also feel your side of the story too. And that may make him feel better.
> 
> Sorry about your weekend. Weddings are suppose to be a happy celebration. But when you have a tough time in your marriage the wedding only emphasizes what you are missing. Makes you feel crummy that the world has more happiness than you do.
> 
> I have not finished reading "Give & Take" yet. I am a slow reader. And this weekend I did not have time to do any reading. But after reading a few chapters I now am looking for "the giver" and "the taker" in my family and see their sides in a new light.


We kind of talked last night, but got distracted, so maybe tonight will go better. We did really go over how he needs to watch what he says, because his rude words to me yesterday were unacceptable and he apologized for it. Hopefully that won't be an issue we keep running into. 

I bought that book online, so I'm waiting for it to come in the mail. I read the sample that is online, just a few chapters, but like what it said. And because it uses "banking", I feel like my husband might be more interested in actually reading it with me.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> We kind of talked last night, but got distracted, so maybe tonight will go better. We did really go over how he needs to watch what he says, because his rude words to me yesterday were unacceptable and he apologized for it. Hopefully that won't be an issue we keep running into.
> 
> I bought that book online, so I'm waiting for it to come in the mail. I read the sample that is online, just a few chapters, but like what it said. And because it uses "banking", I feel like my husband might be more interested in actually reading it with me.


I use to live for the words "I am sorry" .. but after years and years they occurred less and less frequently. But they still meant so much. If he is apologizing, let him know his words are heard and they make you feel better. That may make him continue when it needs to be said.

I like the concept he uses with the "love bank" too. Sort of makes me think about what I say, and to quickly try to apologize when I say something that hurts her in any way. I don't want to draw out her love bank for me to a negative balance. :lol:

Anyhow, for me it is back to the book to read more. Hope you find the book enjoyable too.


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## Anonymous07

cbnero said:


> Still sounds to me like you are putting him in charge of your happiness. Especially making comparisons, that's a sure way to end the marriage and build resentment. It's really your choice to make the best of it or not. Otherwise you're just looking for excuses. Life and love are what you make it. If you focus on searching for problems you'll be sure to find them.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


There are good days and bad days, where I allow outside sources to affect my happiness. I learned long ago as a child about being in charge of my own happiness, since I had to deal with a lot more than the average kid(chronic disease, many hospital stays, relentless teasing, etc.), so I know all about that. This last week or so had just been tough. It was one thing after another that seemed to "hit home" for me. I'm just now starting to get back on track.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I use to live for the words "I am sorry" .. but after years and years they occurred less and less frequently. But they still meant so much. If he is apologizing, let him know his words are heard and they make you feel better. That may make him continue when it needs to be said.
> 
> I like the concept he uses with the "love bank" too. Sort of makes me think about what I say, and to quickly try to apologize when I say something that hurts her in any way. I don't want to draw out her love bank for me to a negative balance. :lol:
> 
> Anyhow, for me it is back to the book to read more. Hope you find the book enjoyable too.


I know he pointed out that I have become pretty bad about apologizing, so I'm working on it, but he knows I still want and appreciate when he apologizes for screwing up, too. 

My husband works in finance, so I think the whole "love bank" might resonate better with him and might actually get him more involved. I listen to him talk finance/banking all the time, so now he can talk about the "love bank", too. :rofl: Then I might actually be able to withstand hearing more of it without getting so bored.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I know he pointed out that I have become pretty bad about apologizing, so I'm working on it, but he knows I still want and appreciate when he apologizes for screwing up, too.
> 
> My husband works in finance, so I think the whole "love bank" might resonate better with him and might actually get him more involved. I listen to him talk finance/banking all the time, so now he can talk about the "love bank", too. :rofl: Then I might actually be able to withstand hearing more of it without getting so bored.


The apology thing is important to me. When she apologies, it gives me a sense that she cared enough to drop her guard and want to be accepted again by me.

My parents were told by a wise old man "never treat your spouse worse than you would treat a stranger" when they got married. The phrase means something to me, and it also means that you must apologize just like if your spouse was a stranger you had no intention of harming. My wife unfortunately scoffs at the wise old saying. She thinks there is no need to walk on egg shells around your spouse.

The author uses the "love bank" in several of his books. And it is an excellent way of looking at how couples fall in love, and then find it difficult to keep that initial set of feelings going forever. How little things remove the deposits and they all add up. He makes some pointers on what adds to the deposits as well.

I am up to the point in the book where he discusses the "love busters."

Is your H willing to read books to help your marriage. Mine just looks at the book and asks "why did you get that book?" When I ask her if she wants to read it, she simply says "they all say the same thing anyhow, just tell me the summary after you read it."

Sometimes working on your own marriage is like rowing a boat with one person on each side, only one person is actively rowing though. So the boat goes in circles. :lol:


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> The apology thing is important to me. When she apologies, it gives me a sense that she cared enough to drop her guard and want to be accepted again by me.
> 
> My parents were told by a wise old man *"never treat your spouse worse than you would treat a stranger"* when they got married. The phrase means something to me, and it also means that you must apologize just like if your spouse was a stranger you had no intention of harming. My wife unfortunately scoffs at the wise old saying. She thinks there is no need to walk on egg shells around your spouse.
> 
> The author uses the "love bank" in several of his books. And it is an excellent way of looking at how couples fall in love, and then find it difficult to keep that initial set of feelings going forever. How little things remove the deposits and they all add up. He makes some pointers on what adds to the deposits as well.
> 
> I am up to the point in the book where he discusses the "love busters."
> 
> Is your H willing to read books to help your marriage. Mine just looks at the book and asks "why did you get that book?" When I ask her if she wants to read it, she simply says "they all say the same thing anyhow, just tell me the summary after you read it."
> 
> Sometimes working on your own marriage is like rowing a boat with one person on each side, only one person is actively rowing though. So the boat goes in circles. :lol:


I like the bolded part and we talked about that last night during a long argument. He has been very rude in talking to me, but will be super respectful with random strangers. I'm not sure if that suggestion stuck, but he said he'll work on it. 

I think he is willing to, but mostly because he knows I am not so afraid to leave. He knows I'm fed up and wants to make things better again. I brought up again the issue of what happened to the man I dated and I think he might finally see what I was talking about. His excuse didn't make sense and I think he saw that last night. Being married doesn't mean you have to become super serious and can't have a sense of humor, which seems to be stuck in his mind as he is the 'provider'. (not sure if that made sense. I'm tired.)

I purposely bought the book from a provider in the same state hoping it will make shipping faster. I'm hoping it will get here soon so we can start it. I got an email yesterday saying it shipped, so it should be here in the next few days. 

I've been in the row boat paddling myself for a long time, but he is now finally starting to help.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I like the bolded part and we talked about that last night during a long argument. He has been very rude in talking to me, but will be super respectful with random strangers. I'm not sure if that suggestion stuck, but he said he'll work on it.
> 
> I think he is willing to, but mostly because he knows I am not so afraid to leave. He knows I'm fed up and wants to make things better again. I brought up again the issue of what happened to the man I dated and I think he might finally see what I was talking about. His excuse didn't make sense and I think he saw that last night. Being married doesn't mean you have to become super serious and can't have a sense of humor, which seems to be stuck in his mind as he is the 'provider'. (not sure if that made sense. I'm tired.)
> 
> I purposely bought the book from a provider in the same state hoping it will make shipping faster. I'm hoping it will get here soon so we can start it. I got an email yesterday saying it shipped, so it should be here in the next few days.
> 
> I've been in the row boat paddling myself for a long time, but he is now finally starting to help.


Sounds like you are making progress. At least he seems willing to acknowledge that there are issues, and that work needs to be done.

The phrase stuck in my head, because it makes so much sense. A marriage license is not a license to abuse somebody. It is a commitment to do just the opposite.

In reading the book I am getting some insight about my daughters behavior. She is really a "taker." When you read the book you will understand what I mean.


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## homedepot

I think the problem that we all have is letting it go away in the 1st place. We need to spread the word and share this site to people who are single or dating. I am not going to lie, reading threads about woman on here in there 40's and 50's wanting to have sex all the time is annoying because I would sign up for that in a heart beat. Point being, most prob would have done things differently after reading some of these posts.


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## fightforher

homedepot,

Yup, all to easy to get wrapped up in work, kids and other activities and just put the marriage on "auto pilot." Then wake up years later to see the damage done.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Sounds like you are making progress. At least he seems willing to acknowledge that there are issues, and that work needs to be done.
> 
> The phrase stuck in my head, because it makes so much sense. A marriage license is not a license to abuse somebody. It is a commitment to do just the opposite.
> 
> In reading the book I am getting some insight about my daughters behavior. She is really a "taker." When you read the book you will understand what I mean.


He is willing and I know I should be happy about that, but I just wish that his willingness would have started well over a year ago instead of telling me I was stupid for looking for help online. He's always known we had problems, but it's only lately that he is willing to accept "outside help"(TAM, books, etc.). 

I'm looking forward to reading the book. Just reading the sample, it was a "oh my, that's us" type feeling, problems starting on the honeymoon.


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## fightforher

Well, late is better than not at all. Just check out how many posters are here trying to fix their marriage alone. While the other denies or has given up.

Does he read what you have posted on TAM?


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Well, late is better than not at all. Just check out how many posters are here trying to fix their marriage alone. While the other denies or has given up.
> 
> Does he read what you have posted on TAM?


I believe so. He knows my username and has seen at least a few of my posts. 

He joined himself about 4 or so months ago after I told him I was done and posted a few times. He read through other posts as well and said it was insightful, but I don't think he has be back on in over a month. I think he follows what I post though since he brings up things that I post about.


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## Q tip

I guess the lesson is to never take each other for granted. Marriage needs work every day. Loving work. Togetherness. Easy to forget as life and years speed by. Take the time daily to reinvest in the relationship. It's your marriage. And his. Equally responsible for growth, sharing and support.


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## Anonymous07

Last night went fairly well, but I don't know if my husband really understands how much I need physical touch. We stood there hugging for a little while and he seemed to get antsy, so he cut it short by pulling away slightly and tickling me so he could go do other things.  I always crave physical touch and liked just standing there in his arms, but he didn't seem as interested. It felt nice, I just wanted it to last longer.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> Last night went fairly well, but I don't know if my husband really understands how much I need physical touch. We stood there hugging for a little while and he seemed to get antsy, so he cut it short by pulling away slightly and tickling me so he could go do other things.  I always crave physical touch and liked just standing there in his arms, but he didn't seem as interested. It felt nice, I just wanted it to last longer.


I can relate. I want a hug to last a lot longer that W does. She gets antsy or she starts the hug with a side step to make sure we are not touching front to front. Ugh, not what I want at all.

The book "Passionate Marriage" talks about "Hugging until relaxed." Perhaps you can convince your H to just try it once. Check out this link, and search for the word "hugging."

Passionate Marriage

If he is willing, it might really be worthwhile to try this exercise and see if you feel better.


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## Anonymous07

We haven't tried the hugging til relaxed exercise yet, but I still want to. 

We went away for the weekend and I was really excited about it, but it did not go as planned. Our son had a horrible night sleep on Saturday night keeping us all awake, so Sunday morning I told my husband to sleep in and relax while I went with my parents and aunt's family to church. I was trying to be nice, allowing him to rest, but he was pissed off at me and stayed in the room for more than half the day! He made it into a huge fiasco and my family was wondering what the heck was going on.  Honestly, I found it to be embarrassing. I apologized for going to church without him, but explained why I did so. When we visit his family, there have been occasions where he lets me sleep and leaves with his family somewhere. I don't get why he blew it out of proportion so bad. I told my family that he felt "sick", but my mom saw right through that answer. She knew something is up. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> We haven't tried the hugging til relaxed exercise yet, but I still want to.
> 
> We went away for the weekend and I was really excited about it, but it did not go as planned. Our son had a horrible night sleep on Saturday night keeping us all awake, so Sunday morning I told my husband to sleep in and relax while I went with my parents and aunt's family to church. I was trying to be nice, allowing him to rest, but he was pissed off at me and stayed in the room for more than half the day! He made it into a huge fiasco and my family was wondering what the heck was going on.  Honestly, I found it to be embarrassing. I apologized for going to church without him, but explained why I did so. When we visit his family, there have been occasions where he lets me sleep and leaves with his family somewhere. I don't get why he blew it out of proportion so bad. I told my family that he felt "sick", but my mom saw right through that answer. She knew something is up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hum, from your description, you told him what you were going to do, you told him why, and you went to the church without him with him knowing where you were headed. So why should he be angry with you? Does not make sense. I have to agree, it does not logical. And on top of that, your son kept you guys awake. I wonder if he was simply grumpy because of lack of sleep?

Somehow, it seems like there must be a little more going on there. Is it possible he was angry because he really wanted to go with the rest of the family? Or perhaps he was embarrassed that he needed more sleep.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Hum, from your description, you told him what you were going to do, you told him why, and you went to the church without him with him knowing where you were headed. So why should he be angry with you? Does not make sense. I have to agree, it does not logical. And on top of that, your son kept you guys awake. I wonder if he was simply grumpy because of lack of sleep?
> 
> Somehow, it seems like there must be a little more going on there. Is it possible he was angry because he really wanted to go with the rest of the family? Or perhaps he was embarrassed that he needed more sleep.


He said he was mad because I didn't tell him which food he could eat for breakfast, but it was sitting on top of the stove and he's family. He can always help himself, we're not dating, we're married. He knows this, but said tonight that he wants to be told which is okay for him to eat every time.  It's not something I typically think about since when we visit his family, it's always assumed that I can help myself(although my husband says supposedly his family always verbally offers each time we're there -maybe in Spanish, but not to me). 

Then he said he was mad about going to church without him because he wanted to go. I told him in the morning we're leaving for church in 10 minutes(enough time to quickly get ready), but he said it's too last minute. He wants to shower, fix his hair, eat, and brush his teeth first. He wants to know the plans ahead of time. My family sometimes can be more spontaneous and we just roll with it, but he isn't cool with it. 

I really enjoy going up to the cabin that my relatives all share(grandpa owns it), as I have been going there since a small child and it's free room&board(not paying a hotel), so it's a cheap vacation. My relatives are all very close, so everything up there is all shared, but my husband doesn't like it. He said he doesn't want to eat "their" food, even if they offer it, as he doesn't want to be a "freeloader". 

It's all frustrating to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fightforher

I see. I can sort of understand .. when I am at my in-laws I sometimes wonder if it is ok for me to eat this and that out of the fridge or off the stove when I am there. I know I would not receive any complaints, but still it does feel as if I should be a guest .. not a family member.

So, perhaps he is feeling the same. More like a guest than a family member. Not pulling his weight. For me it helps to try to help out - wash the dishes, make the beds, etc. Makes me feel more like a family member, than a guest.

Sounds like he really wants to feel accepted by your family and does not feel accepted yet. So he is afraid of eating something and finding out somebody else was saving it and was disappointed. He does not want to be known as the guy that comes in and puts he feet on the coffee table and his drink down on the table without a coaster.

Perhaps if you have a talk with him and explain how your family works and how he is accepted.

Good for you to talk to him about all this stuff. That is good progress, and you are doing a good job in getting to the reasons he is mad. I will have to say that some the the anger is not directed at you, and not your family, but his limitation in becoming comfortable with your family and their ways. Even though you felt the arrows of anger directed toward you, a lot of the anger not your fault and should not have been directed to you.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Perhaps if you have a talk with him and explain how your family works and how he is accepted.
> 
> Good for you to talk to him about all this stuff. That is good progress, and you are doing a good job in getting to the reasons he is mad. I will have to say that some the the anger is not directed at you, and not your family, but his limitation in becoming comfortable with your family and their ways. Even though you felt the arrows of anger directed toward you, a lot of the anger not your fault and should not have been directed to you.


I explained it last night about everyone being family and he can always help himself, but he refuses to do that. I'm not in the mindset to always say, "you can help yourself to anything here" because I've already told him that many times over the years and didn't think to say it that day, but it has now blown up in my face because of it. My dad was also there with him, so I don't get why he didn't just talk to him/ask him in regards to breakfast or any other question. 

When we have visited his family in the past, my husband has taken off with his family and left me at home. I would walk down stairs and just asked his sister what I could eat for breakfast. It wasn't a big deal and never thought the reverse situation of having my husband at home would be horrendous. 

The argument took a turn last night going from him not wanting to be rude, to not being able to afford to buy the same foods my family had brought up there. My family usually each takes a dinner and bring whats needed. Since we were only up there for 2 nights, dinner was taken care of already. My parents brought up tri-tip, salad, and rolls. My aunt and her family brought up chicken and steak skewers, rice, and salad. Those were the 2 dinners(Saturday and Sunday night). We typically never buy red meat because it's pricey and it's more affordable/healthier to buy chicken, which is something we'll buy more often. 

I know my husband has been frustrated with his job for a very long time, but the way he takes out his frustration really bothers me and he doesn't think it's an issue.

We kept fighting in circles last night because he wanted to make sure I got his point and he wouldn't accept that I was trying to be nice by letting him sleep in. He thinks I was being selfish/rude, taking my family's 'side' over him. Not at all what I was doing. 

Ugh.  He left this morning without saying good-bye.


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## fightforher

Looks like he really feels insecure about what he brings to the table (so to speak). I think he does not understand that your family was just fine having him there, and wanted to probably make him feel comfortable. Instead he took it totally the wrong way. And when you left him there and went to church it confirmed his feeling of not being a part of the "group" that was doing stuff. My guess is it was not church that he really wanted, just to be with you and your family.

I agree, he is being petty about these things. He has to grow up a little and accept what he does have to offer. And part of what he has to realize is that he offers himself to you and can make you happy (although probably not quite as happy right now). But still, you would not be here asking for a sounding board if you were not into him. And he has to realize that whatever he can do, is what you want from him.

Left without saying good by? Ouch .. that hurts. Sorry.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Looks like he really feels insecure about what he brings to the table (so to speak). I think he does not understand that your family was just fine having him there, and wanted to probably make him feel comfortable. Instead he took it totally the wrong way. And when you left him there and went to church it confirmed his feeling of not being a part of the "group" that was doing stuff. My guess is it was not church that he really wanted, just to be with you and your family.


Well part of it was about church, since we go together every Sunday, but I was trying to do him a favor and let him sleep in/rest(wish he would do that more often for me!). I thought I was being really nice, but he saw the opposite. 

Thinking about the weekend now, I think he might have also been mad that we didn't go visit his family instead. His brother and gf drove out to see his parents and sisters who live out of state(announcing that the gf is pregnant), and asked if we wanted to come along. We had a horrible time car pooling with them last time(drove home 2 hours after we agreed on leaving , which made our son overtired and our son cried and cried for well over an hour), so I said if we go, we have to drive separately since my BIL is selfish and does his own thing. Well my husband didn't want to pay the money to rent a car or put the mileage on our own car, so we went up to the mountains for a weekend get-away. 



fightforher said:


> I agree, he is being petty about these things. He has to grow up a little and accept what he does have to offer. And part of what he has to realize is that he offers himself to you and can make you happy (although probably not quite as happy right now). But still, you would not be here asking for a sounding board if you were not into him. And he has to realize that whatever he can do, is what you want from him.
> 
> Left without saying good by? Ouch .. that hurts. Sorry.


I've told him from the very beginning, when we were dating, that it has never been/will never be about money that makes me happy. I can live with very little, as things don't mean much to me at all. I'm just happy with family, friends, and time together. I really don't have much of an attachment to things at all. If our house burned down, I'd be a little sad to start over(more so annoyed from all that would have to be done), but the things are all replaceable. People and experiences are more important. I'm not at all a materialistic person. My family, as in my husband and son, will always come first. We talk about that often... but it doesn't seem to sink in. My husband, on the other hand, wants it all.  He wants the latest gadgets, the nice car, the fancy clothes, etc. I don't think it matters that I am happy with very little, but he is the one who is not happy with how things are. I don't know if he'll ever be happy with what he makes financially because he is always wanting more stuff. I think it's sad.  He worries too much about what others think of him and it's hurting our marriage.


----------



## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> He worries too much about what others think of him and it's hurting our marriage.


This went through my mind reading your recent posts. If he helped himself to food and it was deemed 'inappropriate' by your family... so what? I'm sure if there was an issue of some kind, it could be dealt with and need not be a big deal. It sounds like he's concerned with their impression of him, needing their approval.

I wonder what would have happened if you'd gently asked him if he wanted to go to church but you all were leaving in 10mins, or you'd stay home with him? I'm speculating whether he again needs their approval (and inclusion) and needs to feel that with you also. He doesn't view himself as worthy of your family. If that's the case, that's for him to work on.

However, that's speculation and he's the one that can really tell you what's going on (if he knows). Just as, all you can do is communicate to him how you feel. You were going round in circles, no doubt frustrated that he couldn't see you were actually trying to consider him with the sleep-in. What about telling him though, that you feel confused and hurt that your intention was misconstrued and you want to understand it better? The communication goes both ways.


----------



## heartsbeating

I do understand needing time to get ready though. If I was given 10mins... forget about it! If you know he likes to get ready, try to consider that.


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## SimplyAmorous

Anonymous07 said:


> *I've told him from the very beginning, when we were dating, that it has never been/will never be about money that makes me happy. I can live with very little, as things don't mean much to me at all. I'm just happy with family, friends, and time together. I really don't have much of an attachment to things at all.*
> 
> If our house burned down, I'd be a little sad to start over(more so annoyed from all that would have to be done), *but the things are all replaceable. People and experiences are more important. I'm not at all a materialistic person. *My family, as in my husband and son, will always come first. We talk about that often... but it doesn't seem to sink in.
> 
> *My husband, on the other hand, wants it all.  He wants the latest gadgets, the nice car, the fancy clothes, etc. I don't think it matters that I am happy with very little, but he is the one who is not happy with how things are. I don't know if he'll ever be happy with what he makes financially because he is always wanting more stuff. I think it's sad.  He worries too much about what others think of him and it's hurting our marriage.*


This seems to be the root to so many of your issues...he is angry he can't live as others live..and buy what he wants at his leisure...

There would be an awful lot more pressure on him if you felt as he did...it's a blessing you feel as you DO ...He has made himself his own worst enemy ....to his own happiness..... so no matter what you do.. internally this man is not satisfied, he is comparing what others have, what they can do..... this is very difficult to live with..as it shows in his behavior on a continual basis, affecting the spirit in the family....

When myself & H got married, he just worked in a Grocery store...we were so cheap! I should say frugal but we were on the same page.. we didn't mind old cars, saving for what we wanted.. the anticipation of "someday"...that's how we lived..I didn't even want a dryer - hung our clothes & Cloth diapes on the line..(for the 1st 3 kids even!).....we made the best of it...it all came to pass.. (we're still driving old cars though!)

If there was some way you could get this through to your husband.. it's like he needs some kind of belief or HOPE for a "better day" where it won't be so tight financially... realize this is just a passage in life...you are both building to.. but to enjoy it's ride non the less... and in this maybe he can find contentment for the here & now...it would help so much..

Do you feel he judges his manhood on what he earns & what type car he drives?

You are both very young, most people don't have it all when they start out...though it may seem like it -because so many live on Credit today.. which really is not the best way to go.. this too will catch up to couples...


----------



## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> This went through my mind reading your recent posts. If he helped himself to food and it was deemed 'inappropriate' by your family... so what? I'm sure if there was an issue of some kind, it could be dealt with and need not be a big deal. It sounds like he's concerned with their impression of him, needing their approval.
> 
> I wonder what would have happened if you'd gently asked him if he wanted to go to church but you all were leaving in 10mins, or you'd stay home with him? I'm speculating whether he again needs their approval (and inclusion) and needs to feel that with you also. He doesn't view himself as worthy of your family. If that's the case, that's for him to work on.
> 
> However, that's speculation and he's the one that can really tell you what's going on (if he knows). Just as, all you can do is communicate to him how you feel. You were going round in circles, no doubt frustrated that he couldn't see you were actually trying to consider him with the sleep-in. What about telling him though, that you feel confused and hurt that your intention was misconstrued and you want to understand it better? The communication goes both ways.


I told him next time that I will stay home with him instead of going with my family, so we could go to church together later on that day. He liked that, but said he thinks that I am thinking more of my family than about him, which isn't true, but it's stuck in his head. He won't let go of the idea that he has of me supposedly putting my family before him, but I was putting him first by letting him sleep in. It was another night of arguing. 



heartsbeating said:


> I do understand needing time to get ready though. If I was given 10mins... forget about it! If you know he likes to get ready, try to consider that.


I usually like having a good amount of time to get ready, but we were in the mountains and there are some homely people up there. :rofl: We fit in just fine when we look like a mess.


----------



## Anonymous07

SimplyAmorous said:


> This seems to be the root to so many of your issues...he is angry he can't live as others live..and buy what he wants at his leisure...
> 
> There would be an awful lot more pressure on him if you felt as he did...it's a blessing you feel as you DO ...He has made himself his own worst enemy ....to his own happiness..... so no matter what you do.. internally this man is not satisfied, he is comparing what others have, what they can do..... this is very difficult to live with..as it shows in his behavior on a continual basis, affecting the spirit in the family....
> 
> When myself & H got married, he just worked in a Grocery store...we were so cheap! I should say frugal but we were on the same page.. we didn't mind old cars, saving for what we wanted.. the anticipation of "someday"...that's how we lived..I didn't even want a dryer - hung our clothes & Cloth diapers on the line..(for the 1st 3 kids even!).....we made the best of it...it all came to pass.. (we're still driving old cars though!)
> 
> If there was some way you could get this through to your husband.. it's like he needs some kind of belief or HOPE for a "better day" where it won't be so tight financially... realize this is just a passage in life...you are both building to.. but to enjoy it's ride non the less... and in this maybe he can find contentment for the here & now...it would help so much..
> 
> Do you feel he judges his manhood on what he earns & what type car he drives?
> 
> You are both very young, most people don't have it all when they start out...though it may seem like it -because so many live on Credit today.. which really is not the best way to go.. this too will catch up to couples...


I think he does. I think he views his job and what he provides as to how much of a man he is. I know he is unhappy with his job and it has overflowed into all other areas of his life, too. For a long time, he always talked about not being able to give me what my family has given me, but I have told him time and time again that it doesn't matter. For what ever reason he doesn't believe me and it's very frustrating. I'm happy with very little and don't need fancy things. The only thing I worried/worry about is health insurance because I have health issues in which I see a specialist for(haven't needed to see him or needed treatment in a long while, but I don't want to risk anything). 

I'm very frugal and rarely spend money. I'm the one keeping him from spending money on unnecessary things, and yet he is the one who always complains about not having enough money. I think we're doing ok. Yea, money is tight, but it's still doable and it's temporary(hopefully). I know we can't have it all right away because it's just not realistic. People build up what they own over the years, not starting out with all of it. When my husband talks about what my parents have, it really bugs me. They've been married for 32 years, so they have slowly accumulated those things over that time span. They didn't have it all when they got married. I don't want to be in some "competition" to keep up with my parents or whomever. 

We use a credit card a lot right now, but we pay everything off before the end of the month. The card gives us points on everything we spend, so we figured it was a good way to go about buying necessities and getting something back for it.


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## Anonymous07

The book Give and Take still hasn't come in the mail yet(don't understand why it's taking so long since it's being shipped from only a few cities away ), so we read part of the sample online together. 

It started out well and my husband talked about what made him fall in love with me. We went on to talk about our families and the issue I have of feeling uncomfortable around his family with the language barrier. I asked him to please help me overcome it without being so critical of me and he said he would help. Then he started talking about how my mom handles things, in trying to give a suggestion on how I should handle things, and I will admit to getting short with him. He kept trying to give all this back story and I asked him to get to the point already. Well, that made him flip out. He then went on and on about how I am unsupportive, selfish, and so on. Then he stopped talking to me and just played on his tablet. What a great night.   I really didn't want to be compared to my mom, as I am just not like her at all. We're opposites and it was frustrating to hear him think I should be like her. I know I didn't handle it well and I have to work on all of the frustration I have. I just wish my husband would be more understanding that I'm not like my mom and I need more help with being social(shy/introvert, it can take a while for me to feel comfortable). 

Another [email protected]py night and tonight we won't have much time to talk, since I'm working late.


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## fightforher

Wow, multiple nights of arguing!  

I am still reading the book. The book also has chapters on love busters and his needs her needs (two other books by the same author). I like the book. I hope it helps you when it comes.

You seem to go on and on about the same thing without resolution. Each of you seeing others point of view, but refusing to accept it. It is almost like you want to continue arguing. I really hate to ask the next question, but I have to:

Are you trying to extend the argument time in an effort to spend time together? That is, are you getting something out of arguing? Are you getting the feeling of attention when you argue?

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems that you two should have discussed it, found out what each other was feeling, apologized, and made an action plan for the future. And then made up understanding that you are not out to hurt each other.

So why is it going on so long?


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Wow, multiple nights of arguing!
> 
> I am still reading the book. The book also has chapters on love busters and his needs her needs (two other books by the same author). I like the book. I hope it helps you when it comes.
> 
> You seem to go on and on about the same thing without resolution. Each of you seeing others point of view, but refusing to accept it. It is almost like you want to continue arguing. I really hate to ask the next question, but I have to:
> 
> Are you trying to extend the argument time in an effort to spend time together? That is, are you getting something out of arguing? Are you getting the feeling of attention when you argue?
> 
> Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems that you two should have discussed it, found out what each other was feeling, apologized, and made an action plan for the future. And then made up understanding that you are not out to hurt each other.
> 
> So why is it going on so long?


That might be true.  

Our only conversations typically are about my husband's work or about our son. That's it. I was a listening ear and very supportive until I couldn't take it anymore with hearing about his work issue over and over and over. It got old really fast. A few months back I asked him to not talk about work and we didn't even make it one day without discussing his work problems. Now he doesn't discuss it as much, but on a whole has stopped talking as often. He gets lost in watching the tv or playing on his tablet or cell phone. Although he blames me and says I play on the computer, so he won't talk to me. It's been a bad cycle of him doing his own thing(tv or other electronic), so I've given up and do my thing on the computer. It's a cycle we haven't been able to break yet. I have stopped being online as often when we're both home, but he still blames me for doing it in the past, so lately we have fallen back into that cycle. 

Sadly, I can't remember the last time I was truly happy. I can't remember the last time my husband said something positive to me. I still compliment him and do so without even thinking about it, but haven't heard a word from him about me. Just the other day, I laid my head on his shoulder and commented on how he smelled good. When he would leave for work, I'd comment on how he looks good(he has to wear suits to work and he looks great). Maybe it's small and stupid, but I miss him complimenting me. I always feel like I'm defensive, just waiting for his criticism. When our son fell while we were out to get frozen yogurt the other day, I immediately felt tense, waiting for my husband's response.  I don't like the feeling at all. I know he has gotten better without criticizing as much, but the feeling is still there. Sometimes I feel like there is too much "water under the bridge" that I don't know what is left to salvage of our marriage(too much damage already done). I'd like to get back to being happy again, but don't know how to get there. I really miss how we were. 

Not sure if that made sense. I'm really tired after a bad night sleep.


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## fightforher

I would suggest a "no tech night" once a week to start off with. This would be a mutual agreement of everybody in the family that all TV, tablets and computers are turned off for the evening - starting as early as possible. Without the ability to get absorbed in a device, you might be forced to do a little more communication. Sounds like you would be willing, but he may not like the idea. Still, if you suggest it as a trial to help your marriage he might give it a shot. Something tells me he wants to be happy, he wants your marriage (probably as much as you do).

I can understand the lack of positive comments. I too feel that. For me it is very one sided, I complement, and she does not. I let he know when she looks good, and she tells me what about me looks bad. When questioned about the one sided, the response is "just the way I am, I don't complement." And it hurts.

You seem to express your feelings pretty well when you write them down. Do you write to your H from time to time?


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I would suggest a "no tech night" once a week to start off with. This would be a mutual agreement of everybody in the family that all TV, tablets and computers are turned off for the evening - starting as early as possible. Without the ability to get absorbed in a device, you might be forced to do a little more communication. Sounds like you would be willing, but he may not like the idea. Still, if you suggest it as a trial to help your marriage he might give it a shot. Something tells me he wants to be happy, he wants your marriage (probably as much as you do).
> 
> I can understand the lack of positive comments. I too feel that. For me it is very one sided, I complement, and she does not. I let he know when she looks good, and she tells me what about me looks bad. When questioned about the one sided, the response is "just the way I am, I don't complement." And it hurts.
> 
> You seem to express your feelings pretty well when you write them down. Do you write to your H from time to time?


We'll try the no technology night tomorrow night or Friday night, since I'm not working. Tonight I get home late, so we only have maybe an hour together if we're lucky before we go to sleep. I anticipate it not going well tonight. 

We used to write each other letters, but my husband thought it was better if we talked, which would be fine if we communicated better but we don't. We tend to go in circles a lot. I'm not sure how he would feel if I wrote things out again. 

We also used to leave each other love notes on a white board all the time or on sticky notes, but that has stopped, too. I continued on for a while, just me writing notes, but got tired of not having him reciprocate. Now the board just stays blank. I still have a lot of the notes saved and looked at them a couple months ago. Kind of sad to see how happy things were to our current state of being.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> We'll try the no technology night tomorrow night or Friday night, since I'm not working. Tonight I get home late, so we only have maybe an hour together if we're lucky before we go to sleep. I anticipate it not going well tonight.
> 
> We used to write each other letters, but my husband thought it was better if we talked, which would be fine if we communicated better but we don't. We tend to go in circles a lot. I'm not sure how he would feel if I wrote things out again.
> 
> We also used to leave each other love notes on a white board all the time or on sticky notes, but that has stopped, too. I continued on for a while, just me writing notes, but got tired of not having him reciprocate. Now the board just stays blank. I still have a lot of the notes saved and looked at them a couple months ago. Kind of sad to see how happy things were to our current state of being.


I hope tonight goes a lot better than you anticipate.

I would write to him again. Mine has only written back to me a few times, and very short replies. However, I put a priority on writing to her. Even if I don't get a response, at least I know she had the chance to hear me. What have you got to lose, except some ink, paper, and sometime.

The love notes sounds like it was good. How about you write to him and suggest that you use the board to say positive things to each other. Even if it is something simple, like I like the size of your shoes. Just keep it positive and let him do the same.

Good luck tonight .. and no no tech night.


----------



## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> Sadly, I can't remember the last time I was truly happy. I can't remember the last time my husband said something positive to me. I still compliment him and do so without even thinking about it, but haven't heard a word from him about me. Just the other day, I laid my head on his shoulder and commented on how he smelled good. When he would leave for work, I'd comment on how he looks good(he has to wear suits to work and he looks great). Maybe it's small and stupid, but I miss him complimenting me. I always feel like I'm defensive, just waiting for his criticism. When our son fell while we were out to get frozen yogurt the other day, I immediately felt tense, waiting for my husband's response.  I don't like the feeling at all. I know he has gotten better without criticizing as much, but the feeling is still there. Sometimes I feel like there is too much "water under the bridge" that I don't know what is left to salvage of our marriage(too much damage already done). I'd like to get back to being happy again, but don't know how to get there. I really miss how we were.


Sorry to hear that you are both in this place. 

It's really time to shake things up and take responsibility for the part you're playing. Stop looking to him for validation. If you compliment him, then compliment him simply because you want to - not so that you can mentally be 'tit for tat' in your head later. I hope this doesn't sting to read as it's not my intention. It just seems that you're both going round and round, defending your positions, and pointing the finger of blame at each other. 

What can you do to own your side? Really own it. Be present instead of on the computer. If he brings up past instances when you've been online, then it's up to you to nip that in the bud, calmly and assertively. But your actions will speak more than anything. 

My husband and I are still a work-in-progress. We had a tiff last week. We started going round and round too. I found myself starting to swear (not at him, just for emphasis as I have a bit of a potty mouth at times) and that's when I know I'm starting to lose my cool. I stopped myself and told him calmly, I was feeling angry and needed to go walk it off. 30mins later, walking and rehashing the scenario, I had a light-bulb moment of how I'd communicated to him. I walked further and started taking in the beautiful surroundings and calmed right down. He phoned and apologized and we talked more effectively. Disarmed, and ready to understand.


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## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> We used to write each other letters, but my husband thought it was better if we talked, which would be fine if we communicated better but we don't. We tend to go in circles a lot. I'm not sure how he would feel if I wrote things out again.


He's told you that he'd rather talk. How will communication improve if you're not listening to even this as a request? Communication may be awkward and hit and miss but that's all part of it. How about telling him that you feel hesitant in your skills to communicate effectively but you really want to try and ask if he's willing to as well?


----------



## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> It's really time to shake things up and take responsibility for the part you're playing. Stop looking to him for validation. If you compliment him, then compliment him simply because you want to - not so that you can mentally be 'tit for tat' in your head later.


I'm honestly not doing as a 'tit for tat' in regards to complimenting. I still compliment my husband, but I've just gotten to a point where I am super frustrated with it being one sided. It's starting to affect my self-esteem, as I don't even know if my husband even finds me attractive. He just says he "always thinks I look pretty" in a matter of fact way, no emotion.  I can get all dolled up and he won't say a word to me about how I look. I don't know why I even try. 



heartsbeating said:


> What can you do to own your side? Really own it. Be present instead of on the computer. If he brings up past instances when you've been online, then it's up to you to nip that in the bud, calmly and assertively. But your actions will speak more than anything.
> 
> My husband and I are still a work-in-progress. We had a tiff last week. We started going round and round too. I found myself starting to swear (not at him, just for emphasis as I have a bit of a potty mouth at times) and that's when I know I'm starting to lose my cool. I stopped myself and told him calmly, I was feeling angry and needed to go walk it off. 30mins later, walking and rehashing the scenario, I had a light-bulb moment of how I'd communicated to him. I walked further and started taking in the beautiful surroundings and calmed right down. He phoned and apologized and we talked more effectively. Disarmed, and ready to understand.


I'm working on that, but having a tough time. I'm trying really hard to let go of the built up frustration/resentment, but haven't truly let it go. I know that is my problem, not his. I'm not going to use the computer while he is home for a while and see how things go. 



heartsbeating said:


> He's told you that he'd rather talk. How will communication improve if you're not listening to even this as a request? Communication may be awkward and hit and miss but that's all part of it. How about telling him that you feel hesitant in your skills to communicate effectively but you really want to try and ask if he's willing to as well?


We are talking, but we have issues with communication. He doesn't always listen very well(half listening, half thinking about other things), so I repeat myself often. Then he thinks I don't understand what he is trying to say, even though I say I do, and we go in circles because he doesn't believe me. Then there are times where I'm impatient and want him to just get to the point, but he takes a while to translate everything in his head and tells all this back story that is not necessary. I'm working on that part.


----------



## meson

heartsbeating said:


> He's told you that he'd rather talk. How will communication improve if you're not listening to even this as a request? Communication may be awkward and hit and miss but that's all part of it. How about telling him that you feel hesitant in your skills to communicate effectively but you really want to try and ask if he's willing to as well?


Anonymous07,

heartsbeating is correct with her assessment. Furthermore I have seen you describe not listening to your husband in several posts. And when he does open up you don't validate his view but expect him to adopt yours. It's not surprising that he shuts down. In fact you are helping the cycle of decline continue.

In order to escape this spiral into the marriage drain you need to let go of the hurt you feel and concentrate on improving communication that is non judgmental and directed at understanding what is broken and addressing that. Don't dwell on the past and how miserable you have feel. Doing this reinforces the negative feelings you have for your husband. Instead concentrate on achieving improvement and focus on that. Reward good behavior and dwell on that. Figure out what you can do to help good behavior on his part. 


I have been in your shoes. Our marriage suffered from toxic communication. For a long time I would spend most of my time thinking about how bad and unhappy I was and how my wife was causing it. I realized that this made me even more frustrated and angry. It didn't do anything to solve the problem. To solve the problem I went all in and let go. My goal was to communicate and show my wife a better me in addition to create an environment where she could feel better as well. I sought to reinforce every interaction that was good.

It wasn't easy. It took a long time for her to feel comfortable to open up. But once she felt comfortable she started working towards the same goal as well.

I believe that you have it within you to fall in love with your husband again. If you really want to do so dwell on that which is good. This will help associate better things with your husband and help you fall in love again.


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## Anon Pink

Hi A07, I'm catching up with your thread and I think you've already been given some excellent feedback regarding listening and validating. 

It seems as if your husband is on the defensive and feeling a little down particularly knowing that his wife isn't happy. I have to say as difficult as some men can be when it comes to listening, once they've heard, I'm not happy, it's like their brain turns off and they can't hear anything else. Tail spin! "She said she's not happy, I'm not making her happy, I'm doing everything I can think of, now what!"

That's great that your husband IS opening up to you and that's something to encourage. It's best to encourage him to let you know when things are bothering him, by actively listening. When he talked about you going to church without him, what do you think the feelings were behind that statement? And when he talked about his frustration in not knowing what food to eat, not feeling like he had contributed as much as other family members, what were the feelings he associated with that? 

You know him much better than I do but I suspect he felt left out, even though you gave him the option to join you it wasn't enough time for him to pull himself together. A quick way to acknowledge how he felt would be say, "I'm sorry I should have given you much more time to pull yourself together. I can see how that might make you feel excluded since I should know that you want to be pulled together before you leave." End of conflict because he has said his piece, he has been heard, and he has recieved an honest apology. This is how you want him to treat you, right? So start giving it to him.

When you defend yourself by coming back with, but I asked you to come,... but, I told you that you could eat whatever... It is ignoring his feelings, it is invalidating his feelings. He has to keep pushing and pushing until he has been heard.

Yes, you want change in order for this marriage to work. You want him to do things differently and start making you feel loved. The hard truth is that when a marriage becomes so disconnected that thoughts of divorce are on the table, it's time for both spouses to really put all their effort into making their partner feel loved, validated, wanted and accepted. It is under those conditions that real change can take place.

Once you feel like YOU have learned to do things differently. In order to promote a better response from him, you can then point to how you've adapted better techniques and you expect him to do the same.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I hope tonight goes a lot better than you anticipate.
> 
> I would write to him again. Mine has only written back to me a few times, and very short replies. However, I put a priority on writing to her. Even if I don't get a response, at least I know she had the chance to hear me. What have you got to lose, except some ink, paper, and sometime.
> 
> The love notes sounds like it was good. How about you write to him and suggest that you use the board to say positive things to each other. Even if it is something simple, like I like the size of your shoes. Just keep it positive and let him do the same.
> 
> Good luck tonight .. and no no tech night.


Thanks. 

Last night went better than I thought and we talked a lot without the distractions of technology(finally the tv was off!). I think we finally both got over the issues from the arguments of nights prior. I was happy to hear him actually open up and talk instead of pushing away things that bother him only to have them 'explode' later on, even if he just laid all of it on me last night. I'm hoping things can continue with being more open, but with our past I'm slightly nervous to get my hopes too high.


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> Hi A07, I'm catching up with your thread and I think you've already been given some excellent feedback regarding listening and validating.
> 
> It seems as if your husband is on the defensive and feeling a little down particularly knowing that his wife isn't happy. I have to say as difficult as some men can be when it comes to listening, once they've heard, I'm not happy, it's like their brain turns off and they can't hear anything else. Tail spin! "She said she's not happy, I'm not making her happy, I'm doing everything I can think of, now what!"


You've done a good job of pinning my husband pretty dead on. The tail spin would be accurate, as he talked about it last night. 



Anon Pink said:


> That's great that your husband IS opening up to you and that's something to encourage. It's best to encourage him to let you know when things are bothering him, by actively listening. When he talked about you going to church without him, what do you think the feelings were behind that statement? And when he talked about his frustration in not knowing what food to eat, not feeling like he had contributed as much as other family members, what were the feelings he associated with that?
> 
> You know him much better than I do but I suspect he felt left out, even though you gave him the option to join you it wasn't enough time for him to pull himself together. A quick way to acknowledge how he felt would be say, "I'm sorry I should have given you much more time to pull yourself together. I can see how that might make you feel excluded since I should know that you want to be pulled together before you leave." End of conflict because he has said his piece, he has been heard, and he has recieved an honest apology. This is how you want him to treat you, right? So start giving it to him.
> 
> When you defend yourself by coming back with, but I asked you to come,... but, I told you that you could eat whatever... It is ignoring his feelings, it is invalidating his feelings. He has to keep pushing and pushing until he has been heard.


I know a lot about active listening and a lot of the psychology behind all of it, but just haven't been putting it into practice.  



Anon Pink said:


> Yes, you want change in order for this marriage to work. You want him to do things differently and start making you feel loved. The hard truth is that when a marriage becomes so disconnected that thoughts of divorce are on the table, it's time for both spouses to really put all their effort into making their partner feel loved, validated, wanted and accepted. It is under those conditions that real change can take place.
> 
> Once you feel like YOU have learned to do things differently. In order to promote a better response from him, you can then point to how you've adapted better techniques and you expect him to do the same.


I did a lot more active listening last night, which is a start. I'm just really working hard at letting go of the resentment that I've been holding on to, which has been the toughest thing for me.


----------



## Anon Pink

It's so easy to forget to do the important things like validating his feelings. Just as it's easy for him to forget to treat you like he did back when you were dating. You fall into a rut and it's not until someone blows the whistle that you realize how lax everything has become.


Yes indeed, resentment is a b!tch!

As things improve the resentment will fade. I have found that trying really hard to feel what my husband feels, as opposed to feeling my righteous anger because he xyz, helps. My h is a pretty clueless guy and I'm not as careful with my words and temper as I should be. It's also helpful for me when I focus on the positive things that I admire and respect about him.


----------



## Anonymous07

Got the book in the mail today, finally.  So we'll start that tonight after our son goes to bed(hopefully he'll sleep better than last night!).


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> He made it into a huge fiasco and my family was wondering what the heck was going on.  Honestly, I found it to be embarrassing. I apologized for going to church without him, but explained why I did so.


Oh so many things to say...

First, he made it a big fiasco because he has an inferiority complex, especially marrying a white girl, and he feels he is constantly being judged by your family, although I'm sure he isn't. But that's what HE feels. Which is fine, we're all entitled to feel what we feel. But...

Anyway, when he saw that you were leaving him there, he assumed that that meant that you and your family were talking about him and calling him lazy and a bad husband, etc., so he took it out - his shame - on the one person he feels will take it. You.

Which is the first thing you need to address. I, too, used to apologize when my H would act like an ass. Guess what that did? Emboldened him to do it MORE.

Stop apologizing to him. Especially when he acts like a baby. If he throws a fit in a store, LEAVE HIM THERE.

You simply MUST teach him that you will not be disrespected. Like you, I was young and naive about why/how he could be that way, and I took it on my own shoulders - what did I do to upset him, what can I do to make up for it, etc.

Wrong.

Be loving to him when he deserves it. Give him consequences when he doesn't. He'll learn soon enough that treating you like crap leaves HIM alone. Unfed. Without clean clothes. 

I'm not telling you to start a war. I'm telling you to be strategic and trust your gut. When you feel you're being picked on unfairly, provide a gentle but firm consequence. If he raises his voice, calmly say "I don't deserve to be yelled at" and leave the room. He can't yell at you if you're not participating. If he acts like a baby and pouts on the couch, go where you were going without him; it's scary the first time but I guarantee he will learn that pouting no longer works - he'll have to find grownup ways to negotiate for what he wants.

Give more examples and I'll give you better ways of handling things.


----------



## turnera

That said, you have to really take a hard look at your side. If you got Harley's other book, HNHN, you'd learn that aside from SF, a guy's typical top Emotional Need is Admiration. I'm sure he pretty much feels he's failed in every way possible by now, and he seems to feel inferior, so I'm guessing that he's like many men who just give up and assume they'll never please you so why try.

So be very vigilant about ways in which you explain things to him, use "I" statements and not "you" statements, and try to see things from his side. Once he feels you doing that, he'll open up more and stop being so reactive.

And PLEASE stop arguing with him. Never raise your voice; walk away if you feel you're going to yell. If he starts yelling, walk away. You're here being educated on how to have a smart marriage; show him so he can learn.


----------



## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> That said, you have to really take a hard look at your side. If you got Harley's other book, HNHN, you'd learn that aside from SF, a guy's typical top Emotional Need is Admiration. I'm sure he pretty much feels he's failed in every way possible by now, and he seems to feel inferior, so I'm guessing that he's like many men who just give up and assume they'll never please you so why try.
> 
> So be very vigilant about ways in which you explain things to him, use "I" statements and not "you" statements, and try to see things from his side. Once he feels you doing that, he'll open up more and stop being so reactive.
> 
> And PLEASE stop arguing with him. Never raise your voice; walk away if you feel you're going to yell. If he starts yelling, walk away. You're here being educated on how to have a smart marriage; show him so he can learn.


I always use "I" statements and have taught my husband to do the same. I also try to use the sandwich method(start with positive, bring up issue, end with positive) a lot as well. 

And I know he thinks he has "failed", but I remind him all of the time that it is only a thought he has, not me. Money is tight, but we do okay and always make it work. I know he'll move up eventually at work, he just has to be a little patient.


----------



## Anonymous07

There is a always a road block or some speed bump that comes up. 

I was really excited to start the book last night, but instead we did online car shopping. My husband's old car once again has more issues and while we wanted to sell it maybe next year, it looks like it would be better if we did so sooner. I know it's not his fault, but I was just disappointed. I wanted more time to focus on our marriage, but then other issues take the forefront.


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## turnera

The best gift you can give to him is to be excited about each and every opportunity, even if it's not what YOU wanted to do.

Unless, of course, those other opportunities just seem to keep replacing everything you wanted. Be vigilant for that.

But I've realized that one thing men want more than anything is a positive wife. Because it corresponds to being admired. If the man is being admired, the wife will be positive.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> There is a always a road block or some speed bump that comes up.
> 
> I was really excited to start the book last night, but instead we did online car shopping. My husband's old car once again has more issues and while we wanted to sell it maybe next year, it looks like it would be better if we did so sooner. I know it's not his fault, but I was just disappointed. I wanted more time to focus on our marriage, but then other issues take the forefront.


Life happens .. and that means that plans will be changed.

The book will be there tomorrow, and the next day.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Life happens .. and that means that plans will be changed.
> 
> The book will be there tomorrow, and the next day.


I know. 

We read the book last night and it was really nice. My husband thought it was good and we talked about the couple chapters we read, as we went through them. He agreed that it sounded a lot like us, with issues starting on our honeymoon. I'm really glad to see him into the book and we're planning to read more again tonight.


----------



## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I know.
> 
> We read the book last night and it was really nice. My husband thought it was good and we talked about the couple chapters we read, as we went through them. He agreed that it sounded a lot like us, with issues starting on our honeymoon. I'm really glad to see him into the book and we're planning to read more again tonight.


I like that. Wish mine would read too. 

But it shows me that he too wants to repair and work on your marriage. That alone should flatter you.

You guys read fast.


----------



## heartsbeating

Agreed! 

It sounds like a positive step together.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I like that. Wish mine would read too.
> 
> But it shows me that he too wants to repair and work on your marriage. That alone should flatter you.
> 
> You guys read fast.


We've been reading it aloud to each other on the couch and I've realized I suck at reading out loudrofl. I can read much faster quietly in my head, but that doesn't work when you are reading the book together. It is helping him with his English, too. 



heartsbeating said:


> Agreed!
> 
> It sounds like a positive step together.


 It has been good lately. Now if my son could start sleeping well again, life would be amazing.


----------



## Anonymous07

This last weekend was nice.  

Friday night we read the book together, Saturday night my parents came over unexpectedly to give us a date night, which was a lot of fun, and Sunday we went to a family bbq for my grandma's birthday, which was nice. It helped put more into the 'love bank', instead of many withdraws.


----------



## Anon Pink

Great updates A07! So happy for you!


----------



## Holly's sister

I do question myself that often, most of all after a fight. I know in my heart I still love him


----------



## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> This last weekend was nice.
> 
> Friday night we read the book together, Saturday night my parents came over unexpectedly to give us a date night, which was a lot of fun, and Sunday we went to a family bbq for my grandma's birthday, which was nice. It helped put more into the 'love bank', instead of many withdraws.


Wow, that was super! Sounds like your parents are pushing you two together. Why else would the drop in and offer to take care of your son while you two had some time together. Does H understand this? Does he feel "accepted" when he sees that your parents are trying to make you happy by giving you some time alone with your H?

Ah, the love bank has no deposit limits? :rofl: Glad to see progress.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Wow, that was super! Sounds like your parents are pushing you two together. Why else would they drop in and offer to take care of your son while you two had some time together. Does H understand this? Does he feel "accepted" when he sees that your parents are trying to make you happy by giving you some time alone with your H?
> 
> Ah, the love bank has no deposit limits? :rofl: Glad to see progress.


I'm not sure that he sees it, but he was happy for the date night. We don't go out often, so it was nice to have time out of the house alone. He said before that he doesn't want to be seen as if we are "using" them, but my parents just want time with our son. Our son is the first grandchild on my family's side, so he is one spoiled little kid. My parents are obsessed.


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## Anonymous07

I'm hoping the next couple days don't cause a set-back. My husband is going for training at work to learn more of the systems in order to move up and I know he is stressed about it.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm not sure that he sees it, but he was happy for the date night. We don't go out often, so it was nice to have time out of the house alone. He said before that he doesn't want to be seen as if we are "using" them, but my parents just want time with our son. Our son is the first grandchild on my family's side, so he is one spoiled little kid. My parents are obsessed.


I can imagine he does not want to "use them." But grandparents love to spend time with the little one and that is a good thing. But best of all it gives the two of you a little bit of time together. Hard to feel you are not using your in-laws. After all, taking care of a child is work. But do the best you can to convince your H that it is a win win situation and your parents are happy to have time with your son. You can also tell them that this is a good time for your son to bond with his grandparents. You might also try to understand that this situation does not last forever .. so run with it while you can.



Anonymous07 said:


> I'm hoping the next couple days don't cause a set-back. My husband is going for training at work to learn more of the systems in order to move up and I know he is stressed about it.


I suggest you do a lot of listening. If he opens up and talks to you about the training and such, it is because he wants to talk to you. He does not want advice, or solutions. Just someone to talk to, and he selects you. Perhaps a massage to relieve some of that stress?


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I suggest you do a lot of listening. If he opens up and talks to you about the training and such, it is because he wants to talk to you. He does not want advice, or solutions. Just someone to talk to, and he selects you. Perhaps a massage to relieve some of that stress?


I'm like a "guy" in the sense that I like to try to fix things, so I know I can be bad at just listening. I have been working on that lately though by really biting my tongue and just letting him talk. I work again tonight, but hope we can make the most of the short half hour to hour we have before going to sleep.


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## fightforher

Yup, hard to listen to somebody do some griping and not want to offer a bunch of suggestions. But do try.

Hope your 1/2 hour together is the best part of the day. I can tell you that when I connect with W, it is the best part of the day by far.


----------



## upliftinglove

I know that this sounds simple but make sure that you are telling your husband that you love him. Tell him often and in a bunch of different ways. Send him texts and emails. Say it out loud. Write a note on the mirror or in the shower for him to see. Just say "I love you" a ton. It sounds really simple but truly it makes a huge difference. Here's a post that goes into more detail, if you're interested, that I wrote recently. 

Your marriage can be a happy and successful one if both you and your husband are willing to work on it. Good luck!


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Yup, hard to listen to somebody do some griping and not want to offer a bunch of suggestions. But do try.
> 
> Hope your 1/2 hour together is the best part of the day. I can tell you that when I connect with W, it is the best part of the day by far.


It is really what I look forward to, with our time alone to catch up together. I love our son, but boy can he drive me crazy at times. And he has been teething so badly lately(molars coming in), I'm exhausted. He isn't sleeping well at all, which means I'm not sleeping either. Nap time can't come soon enough. 

The last couple nights have been nice and we read another couple chapter last night. I think it's been really helpful for us to read the book and talk about it.


----------



## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> It is really what I look forward to, with our time alone to catch up together. I love our son, but boy can he drive me crazy at times. And he has been teething so badly lately(molars coming in), I'm exhausted. He isn't sleeping well at all, which means I'm not sleeping either. Nap time can't come soon enough.
> 
> The last couple nights have been nice and we read another couple chapter last night. I think it's been really helpful for us to read the book and talk about it.


I know the feeling, the kids keep me busy and what I look forward to at the end of the day is spending time with her .. alone without noises, demands and having to take care of them. I enjoy the relaxing moment to catch up.

You guys are probably ahead of me now on the book. I think that is wonderful. Keep reminding yourself that reading it together really means that he wants "married to you" just as much as you want it too.


----------



## AliceA

Only read the original post, so this may have been covered. I once read a book that made a lot of sense to me when it basically said, fake it until you make it.

The more we pull away, the more distant we feel from each other. Close the distance, even when you don't have the desire to, and eventually those feelings will grow.


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## Anonymous07

breeze said:


> Only read the original post, so this may have been covered. I once read a book that made a lot of sense to me when it basically said, fake it until you make it.
> 
> The more we pull away, the more distant we feel from each other. Close the distance, even when you don't have the desire to, and eventually those feelings will grow.


I tried that and it wasn't working. 

In the book we're reading, Give and Take, it talks about the 3 states of marriage: Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawal. When I'd meet his needs and keep "faking it until I made it", he would go back to the state of Intimacy and I'd still be in the state of Conflict. He would be happy and think I'm happy, but I wasn't. His needs were met and mine were not. It was all very, very frustrating. 

I don't think I'd say we're great now, but we're getting better. I can see him put in more effort to meet my needs, which has been really nice. I just hope it continues.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I know the feeling, the kids keep me busy and what I look forward to at the end of the day is spending time with her .. alone without noises, demands and having to take care of them. I enjoy the relaxing moment to catch up.
> 
> You guys are probably ahead of me now on the book. I think that is wonderful. Keep reminding yourself that reading it together really means that he wants "married to you" just as much as you want it too.


Yea, the end of the night, when my son goes to bed is peaceful. I have my son all day long and can't even go the bathroom alone(he'll scream outside the door if I don't let him in with me), so it feels nice to not have him following me everywhere/hanging on me. I really like that time alone with my husband. Just laying on the couch with him watching tv is great. 

I know his effort is great, but he tends to slip back to being selfish at times. Last night was one of those times.  I love sex, but last night felt like it was all about him. I go down on him and he doesn't reciprocate. Then he kind of just did what he wanted and didn't seem to think about me. After, when the laundry he insisted on doing last night(I offered to do it today) was done, I didn't jump in to help him right away with folding everything and he got mad. I was so tired from a long day and really wish he would have just let it slide. He hasn't done laundry in a long time, so I don't know why he was pissy about it.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I tried that and it wasn't working.
> 
> In the book we're reading, Give and Take, it talks about the 3 states of marriage: Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawal. When I'd meet his needs and keep "faking it until I made it", he would go back to the state of Intimacy and I'd still be in the state of Conflict. He would be happy and think I'm happy, but I wasn't. His needs were met and mine were not. It was all very, very frustrating.
> 
> I don't think I'd say we're great now, but we're getting better. I can see him put in more effort to meet my needs, which has been really nice. I just hope it continues.


Have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? I can't remember. It takes Give and Take's theory and expands it. Basically, of course he's back in Intimacy - you're meeting his needs. But he isn't meeting yours. 

Anyway, it has direct things to do to restore the balance, starting with figuring out how you each Love Bust (make unhappy) the other. He states you can't feel in love with someone who is making you unhappy first. So you have to learn and address and remove the LBs before you address the Emotional Needs. No amount of meeting ENs is going to take away the LBs if they aren't being removed. 

And the book (also online) has questionnaires you can fill out to learn what the LBs and the ENs are, so you can target the RIGHT stuff to do instead of just guessing.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I go down on him and he doesn't reciprocate. Then he kind of just did what he wanted and didn't seem to think about me. After, when the laundry he insisted on doing last night(I offered to do it today) was done, I didn't jump in to help him right away with folding everything and he got mad. I was so tired from a long day and really wish he would have just let it slide. He hasn't done laundry in a long time, so I don't know why he was pissy about it.


Because he's feeling entitled because you let him get away with having HIS SF and not demanding (in a nice way) yours. The reason SF has worked so long in our marriage is that he ALWAYS takes care of me first unless I first signal that this is a 'freebie' for him. Time to set a boundary.

Also, about the laundry, just a thought. I'm a morning person, 75% of my energy is in the morning. By 10pm I have NO energy left. None. I've told my H that for years, but because he's a night person, he often doesn't even get started on a project until 8 or 9 at night. I used to push through my pain and suffering and stay up with him til 2 or 3 holding up beams or whatnot. Until I had finally had enough. I flat out said 'I'm a morning person and I CANNOT do work after 10pm anymore. I don't care if it's editing your email or moving the water heater, I'm not working after 10pm any more. If you have something you need my help with that badly, you need to learn to reschedule your stuff so that you're not coming to me after 10 for help, because I just won't do it to myself any more, and you'll be stuck doing it yourself or waiting until tomorrow.' I wish I'd said it 25 years ago, but I finally did, and it's working.


----------



## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? I can't remember. It takes Give and Take's theory and expands it. Basically, of course he's back in Intimacy - you're meeting his needs. But he isn't meeting yours.
> 
> Anyway, it has direct things to do to restore the balance, starting with figuring out how you each Love Bust (make unhappy) the other. He states you can't feel in love with someone who is making you unhappy first. So you have to learn and address and remove the LBs before you address the Emotional Needs. No amount of meeting ENs is going to take away the LBs if they aren't being removed.
> 
> And the book (also online) has questionnaires you can fill out to learn what the LBs and the ENs are, so you can target the RIGHT stuff to do instead of just guessing.


No, we haven't read that book. We basically just started the book Give and Take, so I think we'll see how it goes after we actually finish this book. There are a lot of questionnaires in the back of this book we can look at, too. 

My husband is more of a Taker than a Giver, and I feel like I'm the opposite. I'm always looking for/finding things to do for him to make him happy. I feel like I carried our marriage, fighting for us to work, for well over a year and he won't put in effort for longer than a week if things aren't going well/he doesn't see improvement.

I don't want to bring up last night to him, as I just don't want to argue about it, but I don't know how to make sure he meets my needs, too. I want so badly for him to think more about me, instead of thinking mostly about his needs first.


----------



## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Because he's feeling entitled because you let him get away with having HIS SF and not demanding (in a nice way) yours. The reason SF has worked so long in our marriage is that he ALWAYS takes care of me first unless I first signal that this is a 'freebie' for him. Time to set a boundary.
> 
> Also, about the laundry, just a thought. I'm a morning person, 75% of my energy is in the morning. By 10pm I have NO energy left. None. I've told my H that for years, but because he's a night person, he often doesn't even get started on a project until 8 or 9 at night. I used to push through my pain and suffering and stay up with him til 2 or 3 holding up beams or whatnot. Until I had finally had enough. I flat out said 'I'm a morning person and I CANNOT do work after 10pm anymore. I don't care if it's editing your email or moving the water heater, I'm not working after 10pm any more. If you have something you need my help with that badly, you need to learn to reschedule your stuff so that you're not coming to me after 10 for help, because I just won't do it to myself any more, and you'll be stuck doing it yourself or waiting until tomorrow.' I wish I'd said it 25 years ago, but I finally did, and it's working.


I don't know how to set that boundary. 

And I'm normally a night person, not a morning person(it takes me a while to really 'wake up'), but my son has been waking up throughout the night again lately. Ugh, feels like I have a newborn again sometimes. It has just been really tiring the last several days with my son's teething, night wakings, and overall attitude of him testing me. Normally, I'd be fine with it all, but last night was not one of those times. I just wanted a break, to relax and not worry about chores for the night.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> My husband is more of a Taker than a Giver, and I feel like I'm the opposite. I'm always looking for/finding things to do for him to make him happy.


I did that and it is VERY unhealthy. Please don't make my mistake. I created an entitled monster who simply cannot SEE that he's not entitled to be taken care of, put first, and protected. I protected him from other people when he'd be a Taker and they'd rightfully lash out at him, and I rushed in to defend him, instead of letting him take his lumps (and LEARN). 

Here's another great book, for women, very short and easy to read but very powerful - and often recommended by therapists, that covers this topic. It's called The Dance Of Anger.

I have some homework for you. Find one thing that you always do for him but leaves you feeling used (because he doesn't reciprocate). Tell him it makes you feel used, and that you won't be doing it any more, to protect yourself from resentment. And stop doing it. See what happens. Did I ever tell you about my laundry situation?


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't know how to set that boundary.
> 
> And I'm normally a night person, not a morning person(it takes me a while to really 'wake up'), but my son has been waking up throughout the night again lately. Ugh, feels like I have a newborn again sometimes. It has just been really tiring the last several days with my son's teething, night wakings, and overall attitude of him testing me. Normally, I'd be fine with it all, but last night was not one of those times. I just wanted a break, to relax and not worry about chores for the night.


Well, here's where you START, ok? 

You DESERVE a break. He didn't have to choose to start laundry. The next time he starts a project that you know he'll expect you to help with, as he starts, gently touch him on the arm, give him a hug, and say 'honey, I am DEAD tired after so much today and I just don't think I can handle folding and moving laundry tonight.' And then let it go. If he chooses to continue anyway, and comes at you for not helping, you give him a kiss and say 'honey, I TOLD you I was too tired. I'll get to it tomorrow if you don't feel like finishing, but I need to relax tonight.'

Thing is, many women aren't raised to believe they have the RIGHT to relax, as long as something else needs done for the baby, the house, or the husband. And that's just not true. I got sent to a stress therapist once when my exhaustion caused my body to seize up on me. She told me that 75% of her patients are women because they feel GUILTY to say no, until everything's taken care of, and their first instinct is to put THEIR needs (rest) aside if others are pushing for them to serve them.

As far as the SF is concerned, I can't really tell you how to approach that, you'll have to figure it out. In truth, the best way is to just have an honest discussion in which you do NOT blame him, but merely state that you're feeling like the less important person in the marriage, since his sexual needs are always taken care of but yours aren't. Ask him to find ways to address it. And in situations where he flat out says 'do me,' smile and kiss and say 'do me first!' See what happens.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't want to bring up last night to him, as I just don't want to argue about it, but I don't know how to make sure he meets my needs, too. I want so badly for him to think more about me, instead of thinking mostly about his needs first.


When you get to the questionnaires, you'll be able to explain to him (I assume they're a lot like the ones in HNHN) where he is making you unhappy. That's when you can share it, when you're both in a collaborative mood.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Well, here's where you START, ok?
> 
> You DESERVE a break. He didn't have to choose to start laundry. The next time he starts a project that you know he'll expect you to help with, as he starts, gently touch him on the arm, give him a hug, and say 'honey, I am DEAD tired after so much today and I just don't think I can handle folding and moving laundry tonight.' And then let it go. If he chooses to continue anyway, and comes at you for not helping, you give him a kiss and say 'honey, I TOLD you I was too tired. I'll get to it tomorrow if you don't feel like finishing, but I need to relax tonight.'
> 
> Thing is, many women aren't raised to believe they have the RIGHT to relax, as long as something else needs done for the baby, the house, or the husband. And that's just not true. I got sent to a stress therapist once when my exhaustion caused my body to seize up on me. She told me that 75% of her patients are women because they feel GUILTY to say no, until everything's taken care of, and their first instinct is to put THEIR needs (rest) aside if others are pushing for them to serve them.


Oye, that's me.  I always put everyone's needs before my own. I come last. 

Thanks, I'll have to try that next time he starts something. He doesn't do it that often, which is good, but he isn't understanding when he does. He just expects me to jump right in when he does things on his time, instead of seeing what would work for both of us.


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## meson

Anonymous07 said:


> *Oye, that's me.  I always put everyone's needs before my own. I come last. *
> 
> Thanks, I'll have to try that next time he starts something. He doesn't do it that often, which is good, but he isn't understanding when he does. He just expects me to jump right in when he does things on his time, instead of seeing what would work for both of us.


This is a trait my wife has as well. I wish she would make more time to do things for herself. I finally figured out that if I take things off her plate or support her with her current priority that I can take the edge off and make her feel less stressed. 

turnera is correct you deserve a break and it should be something that he can accommodate.


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## Anonymous07

meson said:


> This is a trait my wife has as well. I wish she would make more time to do things for herself. I finally figured out that if I take things off her plate or support her with her current priority that I can take the edge off and make her feel less stressed.
> 
> turnera is correct you deserve a break and it should be something that he can accommodate.


I feel guilty for asking for a break or anything for myself. I rarely ever do, unless I feel like I'm losing it. Growing up, I was basically always taught to "suck it up" and just get things done. It's something that has stuck with me. I tend to downplay issues, too. A few years back, I woke up with stabbing chest pain, very hard to breath. I brushed it off as an asthma issue and finally went to urgent care after a few hours. When they told me to go to the Emergency Room, I asked if I had to. :rofl: I had a partially collapsed lung. 

I don't know if I really feel like I deserve a break, but I sure do want one at times.


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## turnera

Anon, you really really need to change this. You're no good to your kids OR your husband OR yourself if you don't give yourself time off. Please trust me on this; I went through two therapists and a stress therapist because I refused to accept that I was just as important as the husband and family. A lot of health issues from denying your need for mental and physical rest.

I, too, was taught as a child to shut up and make sure everyone else was cared for. My first IC said 'so, basically, you were taught to shut up and not need anything.' It's taken me 40 years of struggling to accept that I am just as valuable as everyone else. Don't wait this long; get your IC and start learning to love yourself.


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## AnnieAsh

Anon07, just poking my head in to give you virtual hugs. 

You MUST have time for yourself! Please please please! I think sometimes girls are raised to sacrifice for those we love. Then we grow up and become women who perpetually sacrifice. 

Eventually you'll break and it will be 10X worse than if you just took an hour every other day for a quiet bubble bath and a book. 

I second Turnera on the IC. I've been diagnosed with PPD and just found out it can hit you any time in the first year! I'm handling it with regular IC appointments, exercise and one bubble bath per week. Do something for yourself, babe.


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## turnera

Also, do you hand the baby over to him at least once a week and go do 'me time'? Even if it's just to go take a walk around the block...do it!


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## fightforher

turnera said:


> Anon, you really really need to change this. You're no good to your kids OR your husband OR yourself if you don't give yourself time off. Please trust me on this; I went through two therapists and a stress therapist because I refused to accept that I was just as important as the husband and family. A lot of health issues from denying your need for mental and physical rest.
> 
> I, too, was taught as a child to shut up and make sure everyone else was cared for. My first IC said 'so, basically, you were taught to shut up and not need anything.' It's taken me 40 years of struggling to accept that I am just as valuable as everyone else. Don't wait this long; get your IC and start learning to love yourself.


Were you also the oldest child when you grew up?


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> Yea, the end of the night, when my son goes to bed is peaceful. I have my son all day long and *can't even go the bathroom alone*(he'll scream outside the door if I don't let him in with me), so it feels nice to not have him following me everywhere/hanging on me. I really like that time alone with my husband. Just laying on the couch with him watching tv is great.
> 
> I know his effort is great, but he tends to slip back to being selfish at times. Last night was one of those times.  I love sex, but last night felt like it was all about him. I go down on him and he doesn't reciprocate. Then he kind of just did what he wanted and didn't seem to think about me. After, when the laundry he insisted on doing last night(I offered to do it today) was done, I didn't jump in to help him right away with folding everything and he got mad. I was so tired from a long day and really wish he would have just let it slide. He hasn't done laundry in a long time, so I don't know why he was pissy about it.


I know exactly that one. Every time I go to the bathroom I here the kids calling for me. I think, gads, I don't even get a bathroom break on this job. I gotta complain to OSHA :rofl:

Sorry about last night. On the laundry issue, yes, you need to put your foot down, tell him you are too tired to take on one more task, and you will be glad to do it tomorrow morning. And generally, laundry is not a crisis task (although my daughter sometimes thinks it is).

As for not getting your needs met in bed. I wish I had words of wisdom to say about this. Generally Anon Pink jumps in here with some things to say about this. 

But I will say that I sympathize about not getting yours when he got his. Very unfair indeed. His taker just went at it, and your giver just gave in. Removed a few from your love bank and went on.

Do you think he knows how to give to you? Do you think he was just being selfish? Or do you think he is just clueless?


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## turnera

fightforher said:


> Were you also the oldest child when you grew up?


No, I was the youngest. But it was a weird dynamic. My mom was an unwed mother (scandal back in the 50s) who married my dad and then had me. My dad wanted a son, he just didn't want the bastard kid my mom brought with her. And I wasn't tomboy enough to please him. She hated how her life turned out, he hated not getting a son, my brother was a basket case at being unwanted, and I was just ignored.


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## turnera

When DD was young, I'd get a video of cartoons, sit her in front of it with a bowl of watermelon pieces, and let her watch a couple cartoons while I went to the bathroom. Worked for both of us.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> When DD was young, I'd get a video of cartoons, sit her in front of it with a bowl of watermelon pieces, and let her watch a couple cartoons while I went to the bathroom. Worked for both of us.


I just take him into the bathroom with me and figure it might help out later on with potty training, so I deal with it. He already likes to try to mimic everything I do(if I brush my hair, he has to also, when I brush my teeth, he 'brushes' his or more so sucks on the tooth brush), so he will probably try to mimic going the bathroom as well. I try not to let him watch tv, as he will soon enough be inundated with technology.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Also, do you hand the baby over to him at least once a week and go do 'me time'? Even if it's just to go take a walk around the block...do it!


Not usually. 

My husband likes to complain that he works full time and needs time to relax after work... but 1) he doesn't work full time(works around 30 to 35 hours a week) and 2) I work also(part-time in the evenings) on top of being our son's caretaker almost 24/7(except when I'm at work). Lately, our son has been getting up again at night sometime between 3am and 5am crying. Last night it took over 45 minutes to get him to go back to sleep. All the while, my husband was snoring in our room. 

For the first time(maybe second, but honestly can't remember), 2 nights ago, I had my husband take night shift while I stayed in bed and he acted distant the whole next day(he had the following day off). I am assuming he acted that way from being mad about having to take the 'night shift'. It was so nice to just lay in bed and not have to get up to soothe our son back to sleep.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> Not usually.
> 
> My husband likes to complain that he works full time and needs time to relax after work... but 1) he doesn't work full time(works around 30 to 35 hours a week) and 2) I work also(part-time in the evenings) on top of being our son's caretaker almost 24/7(except when I'm at work). Lately, our son has been getting up again at night sometime between 3am and 5am crying. Last night it took over 45 minutes to get him to go back to sleep. All the while, my husband was snoring in our room.
> 
> For the first time(maybe second, but honestly can't remember), 2 nights ago, I had my husband take night shift while I stayed in bed and he acted distant the whole next day(he had the following day off). I am assuming he acted that way from being mad about having to take the 'night shift'. It was so nice to just lay in bed and not have to get up to soothe our son back to sleep.


I can relate. I was the night shift duty guy in our house. And it is so frustrating to want to sleep, but need to rock and soothe the little one back to sleep. I get impatient and put him down too early and then I have to start all over again.

Not much of a win if when he does help he gives you the distance treatment the next day.

Sorry.


----------



## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> But I will say that I sympathize about not getting yours when he got his. Very unfair indeed. His taker just went at it, and your giver just gave in. Removed a few from your love bank and went on.
> 
> Do you think he knows how to give to you? Do you think he was just being selfish? Or do you think he is just clueless?


Sometimes I think he is just that clueless and other times I think he is just super selfish. 

I asked him a few nights ago if he liked oral sex, he said "yes". I asked if he disliked giving oral sex, he said "I was tired". :bsflag:

It's not like it takes that much energy and I don't get why he would lie to my face like that. I hate his excuses. It really pissed me off, so I didn't try to initiate last night and nothing happened, which doesn't bother me all that much because I'm still annoyed. 

I honestly don't get him at all. I thought work was going well, as he said he thought training went well and he was happy with how work is going. He's been doing well and has been recognized by his boss. All good things. Yet, with all that, he still acts weird with me? :scratchhead: 

I'm just frustrated. :banghead: Here we've been reading the book(off and on) and yet I guess none of it has clicked. He is still putting all of his needs first and not thinking of me.


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## skype

Anonymous07 said:


> He is still putting all of his needs first and not thinking of me.


Anon:

Do you think this is a cultural issue for him, or a personal one?

Did his family and culture teach him that a man provides for his family, and a wife tends to all domestic chores, including all child care? That a man does not go down on a woman, a man does not discuss his true feelings?

If you can get to the root of his beliefs, you may have a chance to get him to work on changing them.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> My husband likes to complain that he works full time and needs time to relax after work...


First, so what? Who works the most hours is NOT a determinant in who is responsible for the baby. You're letting yourself fall into the age-old trap of you're the woman so you do it.

Stop thinking like that. He is a PARENT and thus is 50% responsible for spending time with the baby. If he doesn't like it, well, he's welcome to move out and be single. But as long as he wants the benefits of being married, having a woman take care of him, he shoulders part of the responsibility of raising your child. This change HAS to come from YOU first, though. Please trust me, he isn't going to just wake up tomorrow and say 'wow, here, let me do that for you.' Saturday afternoon, hand him the baby and say "Here. I'm going for a walk." Start from there. Every 3 or 4 days, hand him the baby and just leave the room. Go take a bath, or go pull weeds, or go for a walk or even go to the store.



Anonymous07 said:


> I am assuming he acted that way from being mad about having to take the 'night shift'. It was so nice to just lay in bed and not have to get up to soothe our son back to sleep.


Second, AGAIN, so what? He did that to get you back in line, to teach you not to dare try that again, by 'punishing' you with his anger. Even if he only does this once a week, it's only fair. But it has to come from you. He may try to wait you out, expecting you to finally give up and get up and take care of the baby. I strongly urge you not to give in; your baby isn't going to die if he has to cry an extra half hour. But you WILL prove your point to your H that you are no longer the 100% babysitter, mother, cook, maid, and SF provider, that you expect him to RESPECT you. Remember, he can't respect you until YOU respect you.

My H has a cold and he got upset that I wouldn't rub his back all night long in bed 'because he's sick' (the night before, he was waking me up every 20 minutes to rub him again. I got about 3 hours sleep). He got huffy and left bed; I went into the living room where he was lying down and pouting, I asked what was wrong. He said 'when you're sick, I rub your feet and do things for you.' I said I never asked you to do things for me, when I'm sick I like to be alone. But if you want me to do something for you, you have to say it out loud, not just putting my hand on your back and your side and your chest like I'm your robot or something. He was still pouting so I went back to the bedroom. He finally came back in because I wasn't kissing his butt and asking for forgiveness. So THEN I said I'm sorry I'm not being comforting enough; it's not in my nature; I'll try to be better. And he apologized, and we went to bed. But it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't stood up to him and said (physically, not verbally) fine, stay there and pout. I'm going to bed.


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## Anonymous07

skype said:


> Anon:
> 
> Do you think this is a cultural issue for him, or a personal one?


Honestly, I don't know. Both? 



skype said:


> Did his family and culture teach him that a man provides for his family, and a wife tends to all domestic chores, including all child care? That a man does not go down on a woman, a man does not discuss his true feelings?
> 
> If you can get to the root of his beliefs, you may have a chance to get him to work on changing them.


I don't necessarily think he family taught him that, but culturally speaking, yes. The man is the provider and woman takes care of the home(chores, child care, errands, etc.). My FIL can be an emotional man and I've seen him cry as much or probably more than my own dad. He also cooks and from what my husband says, helps out around the house(haven't personally seen that though), so I don't know if he really follows the cultural 'rules'. My MIL definitely does though, and I think that had to do with her upbringing. She barely had any schooling and grew up in a rural town. Her 'purpose' was to be a good wife, as her mom pushed her to be. My FIL, on the other hand, grew up in the city and has his degree. I would say he is more modern, although he tends to give in to my MIL a lot, who tells him to relax/don't do this or that(ughh!). 

I don't know exactly what my husband believes because even if he does believe in that view of gender roles, I highly doubt he will ever admit it.  All through the years of us dating and being married, he always says he is "happy" to take care of what ever needs to be done(cook, cleaning, taking care of our son, etc.), but his actions are much different. 

I think he has a certain view of what a "man" is and sometimes it makes me sad. Our son loves to be worn in a carrier when we go grocery shopping/other errands(makes our son happy, so it makes me happy), but my husband hates wearing him in one. He doesn't think it's "manly" and said he feels weird. He thinks people judge him because of it. If we go together, I'm usually the "pack mule" wearing our son in the carrier and carrying the diaper bag. He took our son yesterday shopping on his own and was mad that most people spoke to him in English at the Mexican market that he went to, I'm assuming since our son looks very white like me. I asked him why he didn't just handle things differently and keep talking to them in Spanish, but he didn't have an answer for me on that. 

It's hard to deal with an issue that he will never admit is there.


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## turnera

That's why you stop waiting for him to change. YOU change and he will have no choice but to change. YOU stop doing everything and he will have no choice but to step up. When I'm cleaning all day and H is sitting on the couch doing nothing but watching tv, guess who gets a load of clean towels dumped on the couch to fold? Let him try to get out of that. I'm working all day long, he's doing nothing, and he won't fold a load of towels? I don't think so.

And why didn't you hand HIM the diaper bag?


----------



## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> First, so what? Who works the most hours is NOT a determinant in who is responsible for the baby. You're letting yourself fall into the age-old trap of you're the woman so you do it.
> 
> Stop thinking like that. He is a PARENT and thus is 50% responsible for spending time with the baby. If he doesn't like it, well, he's welcome to move out and be single. But as long as he wants the benefits of being married, having a woman take care of him, he shoulders part of the responsibility of raising your child. This change HAS to come from YOU first, though. Please trust me, he isn't going to just wake up tomorrow and say 'wow, here, let me do that for you.' Saturday afternoon, hand him the baby and say "Here. I'm going for a walk." Start from there. Every 3 or 4 days, hand him the baby and just leave the room. Go take a bath, or go pull weeds, or go for a walk or even go to the store.


I think I just get tired of the temper tantrums he throws. The last time I left him to do his own thing with our son, he got all pissy about not doing what he wanted to do, while I was in the backyard pruning plants. It's such a pain to deal with him when he acts that way, I end up just not pushing him anymore. I feel like it's easier(in the short term) to just do it all myself... but it sure is getting old fast.  



turnera said:


> Second, AGAIN, so what? He did that to get you back in line, to teach you not to dare try that again, by 'punishing' you with his anger. Even if he only does this once a week, it's only fair. But it has to come from you. He may try to wait you out, expecting you to finally give up and get up and take care of the baby. I strongly urge you not to give in; your baby isn't going to die if he has to cry an extra half hour. But you WILL prove your point to your H that you are no longer the 100% babysitter, mother, cook, maid, and SF provider, that you expect him to RESPECT you. Remember, he can't respect you until YOU respect you.
> 
> My H has a cold and he got upset that I wouldn't rub his back all night long in bed 'because he's sick' (the night before, he was waking me up every 20 minutes to rub him again. I got about 3 hours sleep). He got huffy and left bed; I went into the living room where he was lying down and pouting, I asked what was wrong. He said 'when you're sick, I rub your feet and do things for you.' I said I never asked you to do things for me, when I'm sick I like to be alone. But if you want me to do something for you, you have to say it out loud, not just putting my hand on your back and your side and your chest like I'm your robot or something. He was still pouting so I went back to the bedroom. He finally came back in because I wasn't kissing his butt and asking for forgiveness. So THEN I said I'm sorry I'm not being comforting enough; it's not in my nature; I'll try to be better. And he apologized, and we went to bed. But it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't stood up to him and said (physically, not verbally) fine, stay there and pout. I'm going to bed.


I know I am very bad about giving in and it doesn't help that he acts helpless at times, asking me to help him.  As if he doesn't know where our son's clothes, bibs, etc. are located. Open up the drawers and look! I've been better lately about not always helping him and just telling him to figure it out, but he acts pissy a lot because of it. He is not fun to be around during those times. Then he talks about how he cares for our son while I'm at work, so he thinks that counts as time when I'm not having to look after our son. Nope, my time at work is not a break. 

I was sick/nauseous yesterday morning and my husband was mad about having to cook lunch and do more around the house/take care of our son, while I napped and relaxed a little. The rest of the day, he had his little hissy fit. And after our son went to bed, he played on his tablet and was fairly distant, until maybe an hour before bed where he put his head on my lap. 



turnera said:


> And why didn't you hand HIM the diaper bag?


It looks like a purse and he refuses to hold it. I mentioned buying or using a more "manly" diaper bag, but there is always an excuse(doesn't want to spend the money, won't use an old back pack because it's "weird" and he acts like you can't use one as a diaper bag, etc.). It ends up being easier to just carry it myself, so he'll shut up.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I think I just get tired of the temper tantrums he throws. The last time I left him to do his own thing with our son, he got all pissy about not doing what he wanted to do, while I was in the backyard pruning plants. It's such a pain to deal with him when he acts that way, I end up just not pushing him anymore. I feel like it's easier(in the short term) to just do it all myself...


It worked, didn't it? He got pissy specifically - even if he wasn't aware of it - to control your actions. To make you give up and just do it all yourself.

And now you're aware that it is NOT easier in the long term, correct?


----------



## turnera

Just so you can see what you're dealing with...


Anonymous07 said:


> I think I just get tired of the *temper tantrums he throws*. The last time I left him to do his own thing with our son, *he got all pissy* about not doing what he wanted to do, while I was in the backyard pruning plants. *It's such a pain to deal with him* when he acts that way, I end up just not pushing him anymore. I feel like it's easier(in the short term) to just do it all myself... but it sure is getting old fast.
> 
> 
> 
> I know I am very bad about giving in and it doesn't help that *he acts helpless* at times, asking me to help him.  As if he doesn't know where our son's clothes, bibs, etc. are located. Open up the drawers and look! I've been better lately about not always helping him and just telling him to figure it out, *but he acts pissy a lot because of it*. He is not fun to be around during those times. Then he talks about *how he cares for our son *while I'm at work, so he thinks that counts as time when I'm not having to look after our son. Nope, my time at work is not a break.
> 
> I was sick/nauseous yesterday morning and *my husband was mad about having to cook lunch* and *do more *around the house/take care of our son, while I napped and relaxed a little. The rest of the day, *he had his little hissy fit*. And after our son went to bed, he played on his tablet and *was fairly distant*, until maybe an hour before bed where he put his head on my lap. [because he saw bedtime - and sex - in sight]
> 
> It looks like a purse and he refuses to hold it. I mentioned buying or using a more "manly" diaper bag, but there is always an excuse (doesn't want to spend the money, won't use an old back pack because it's "weird" and he acts like you can't use one as a diaper bag, etc.). It ends up being easier to just carry it myself, *so he'll shut up*.


Stop it. Stop accepting his childish behavior. Stop caring if he's upset. Tell him to grow up. Provide a consequence when he treats you like this or it will become who he is _full time._ TEACH him to respect you.


----------



## heartsbeating

This sh!t doesn't change overnight. And he'll need to want to change. However, yes, you can change the way you respond to him.

My MIL can throw one helluva tantrum-guilt-trip parade when she wants. She did this when she last stayed with us. Hubs had already gone down the path of changing his behavior including the defense mechanisms he'd developed. So anyway, she came and threw a colossal tantrum, including a few nasty words thrown his way. He remained calm and unphased by it. I bit my tongue and kept out of it - simply because it was between the two of them and last thing the situation needed was me getting defensive of him and lashing out. She stormed off and closed herself in the guest room. Wouldn't come out to eat with us. We had arranged outings for her visit and we still did these things - he welcomed her to still join us and when she refused, we went and had a great time together. After the weekend, he told her that her behavior had been unacceptable and essentially told her that unless she was willing to change he wasn't interested in having a relationship with her. There was a stretch of time where things were hit and miss. They still have a relationship. She doesn't hang up on him anymore or have those tantrums - because he doesn't allow her to. 

While the dynamic is different being a married couple, the point is, to change the way you interact with him as that's all you can do.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> It worked, didn't it? He got pissy specifically - even if he wasn't aware of it - to control your actions. To make you give up and just do it all yourself.
> 
> And now you're aware that it is NOT easier in the long term, correct?


Yes, it did work and I do know it's not easier in the long term. There are just many times when I get fed up and don't want to deal with it. 

We're still reading the book, but it feels more like he is just going through the motions. We read another chapter last night, on love busters, and we were going to do the questionnaire on it in the back of the book, but he said he wanted to go to bed. I then put the book away and he sat on the couch playing on his tablet for a little while. I waited and watched to see what he would do and he continued on for another half hour, when I said I was heading off to bed and then he followed.  Sometimes I wonder if he cares.


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## turnera

He cares. He's just a typical guy (present company excluded) who doesn't want to have to WORK at his marriage. He married for convenience and sex and a relationship and an easier life and this doesn't fit into that.


----------



## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> This sh!t doesn't change overnight. And he'll need to want to change. However, yes, you can change the way you respond to him.
> 
> My MIL can throw one helluva tantrum-guilt-trip parade when she wants. She did this when she last stayed with us. Hubs had already gone down the path of changing his behavior including the defense mechanisms he'd developed. So anyway, she came and threw a colossal tantrum, including a few nasty words thrown his way. He remained calm and unphased by it. I bit my tongue and kept out of it - simply because it was between the two of them and last thing the situation needed was me getting defensive of him and lashing out. She stormed off and closed herself in the guest room. Wouldn't come out to eat with us. We had arranged outings for her visit and we still did these things - he welcomed her to still join us and when she refused, we went and had a great time together. After the weekend, he told her that her behavior had been unacceptable and essentially told her that unless she was willing to change he wasn't interested in having a relationship with her. There was a stretch of time where things were hit and miss. They still have a relationship. She doesn't hang up on him anymore or have those tantrums - because he doesn't allow her to.
> 
> While the dynamic is different being a married couple, the point is, to change the way you interact with him as that's all you can do.


I am trying, but I also know I am bad about giving in. 

Pretty much all of my in-laws run on drama, so I shouldn't be so surprised when he falls into that 'lifestyle', but I thought for so long that he was different or at least acted that way for a few years while dating.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> He cares. He's just a typical guy (present company excluded) who doesn't want to have to WORK at his marriage. He married for convenience and sex and a relationship and an easier life and this doesn't fit into that.


I guess so. It just feels frustrating because I have always put in effort to make him happy, and he just takes it and does what he wants to instead of trying to make me happy, too. When I complain, he seems to do the bare minimum to make me happy.


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## turnera

Here's my theory. Men are raised to go out and have fun with their buddies and roughhouse and be active, while girls are often raised to (or just prefer to) play with dolls and play house and dress up and make 'dinners' and such. As they age, guys are still stuck on having fun and then getting sex from girls and getting drunk and preparing for college or work...never really giving any thought at all to what a relationship really is. In many cases, the guy is not being taught housework, or child rearing (the sister watches the little brother more often than the older brother kind of thing), and no one's talking to him about responsibilities and how to keep your wife happy - he just expects a woman who still wants to have as much fun as when they were dating, have tons of sex, and, yes, take care of him (as she's showing off her cooking skills, etc.). Why would he expect anything different in marriage? Especially if his mom took care of him; that's what the wife is for, right?

Meanwhile, the girls are dreaming up weddings and thinking about babies, maybe reading romance novels and conjuring a loving, nurturing husband who's just as invested in decorating and nesting and raising babies as they are. 

Then those two visions collide when the wife expects him to start caring about how she arranged the furniture and about picking up his dishes so she isn't doing 100% of the housework. And he expects her to stop nagging about all his FAULTS (remember that one of most men's top 3 emotional needs is admiration). And when he realizes that she expects more from him than just coming home and playing video games and, heaven forbid - midnight feedings, well hell, this marriage thing SUCKS! And YOU suck cos you've taken all the fun out of our relationship. 

And there you are, right where you find yourself.


----------



## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I am trying, but I also know I am bad about giving in.
> 
> Pretty much all of my in-laws run on drama, so I shouldn't be so surprised when he falls into that 'lifestyle', but I thought for so long that he was different or at least acted that way for a few years while dating.


First, we all put on an act while we're dating. To look our best, to hide our faults. Second, I'm sorry, but you won't nice him out of this. I've been to two therapists for many many years to get this one basic tenet out of it: women HAVE to start being strong enough to say 'I deserve better than this.' It's very hard for women to do that, we aren't raised to speak up, usually, and we expect men to think the way we do. They don't. They respect and understand strength and won't respond to much else.

Don't waste decades like I did. You can't change him. You CAN show him what you're willing to tolerate in a marriage. You CAN show him that you won't STAY in a marriage in which you're the second class citizen and he reaps all the benefits. If you need IC to get the strength to do it, by all means go. But don't go thinking you'll get him to change. YOU have to change and he will then be faced with a challenge - adapt or lose you.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> First, we all put on an act while we're dating. To look our best, to hide our faults. Second, I'm sorry, but you won't nice him out of this. I've been to two therapists for many many years to get this one basic tenet out of it: women HAVE to start being strong enough to say 'I deserve better than this.' It's very hard for women to do that, we aren't raised to speak up, usually, and we expect men to think the way we do. They don't. They respect and understand strength and won't respond to much else.
> 
> Don't waste decades like I did. You can't change him. You CAN show him what you're willing to tolerate in a marriage. You CAN show him that you won't STAY in a marriage in which you're the second class citizen and he reaps all the benefits. If you need IC to get the strength to do it, by all means go. But don't go thinking you'll get him to change. YOU have to change and he will then be faced with a challenge - adapt or lose you.


I'm not good at speaking up, never have been. Naturally, I'm a very giving person and just always thought it would be reciprocated, but it hasn't been. When I get really upset, he will act better, but it's typically short lived. I got a text from him today saying: "Thank you for being a good wife and mother to our family. I love you beautiful". I don't even want to respond. He does it because I sent him a text several days ago saying the same about him(minus the good husband part), saying he is a good dad and provider. 

I know I have to change my actions and reactions. I'm just having a difficult time getting a back bone to really put it all in action.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Here's my theory. Men are raised to go out and have fun with their buddies and roughhouse and be active, while girls are often raised to (or just prefer to) play with dolls and play house and dress up and make 'dinners' and such. As they age, guys are still stuck on having fun and then getting sex from girls and getting drunk and preparing for college or work...never really giving any thought at all to what a relationship really is. In many cases, the guy is not being taught housework, or child rearing (the sister watches the little brother more often than the older brother kind of thing), and no one's talking to him about responsibilities and how to keep your wife happy - he just expects a woman who still wants to have as much fun as when they were dating, have tons of sex, and, yes, take care of him (as she's showing off her cooking skills, etc.). Why would he expect anything different in marriage? Especially if his mom took care of him; that's what the wife is for, right?
> 
> Meanwhile, the girls are dreaming up weddings and thinking about babies, maybe reading romance novels and conjuring a loving, nurturing husband who's just as invested in decorating and nesting and raising babies as they are.
> 
> Then those two visions collide when the wife expects him to start caring about how she arranged the furniture and about picking up his dishes so she isn't doing 100% of the housework. And he expects her to stop nagging about all his FAULTS (remember that one of most men's top 3 emotional needs is admiration). And when he realizes that she expects more from him than just coming home and playing video games and, heaven forbid - midnight feedings, well hell, this marriage thing SUCKS! And YOU suck cos you've taken all the fun out of our relationship.
> 
> And there you are, right where you find yourself.


I always imagine having a marriage like that of my aunt and uncle or somewhat like my parents(minus my dad's anger issues). I wasn't the typical little girl, as I grew up with brothers and my dad didn't treat me any different than them. Yes, I played barbies and other girly things at times, but I never got lost in "dreaming of a wedding"(not my thing at all, never really thought about it, didn't care) and knew to be level headed enough to be open and honest about expectations prior to marriage. I wanted to go into the decision to marry with my eyes wide open, making sure we'd talk about everything. We did that... talking about expectations, goals, values, etc. I thought we were doing great and marriage would be wonderful with how things had been(communicated fairly well, would fight but make up easily, etc.), but it all changed on our honeymoon.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm not good at speaking up, never have been. Naturally, I'm a very giving person and just always thought it would be reciprocated, but it hasn't been.


Well, now you know that you were wrong, correct? So it's time to quietly shelve that notion and ask yourself what to do RIGHT that will get you what you want. 



Anonymous07 said:


> When I get really upset, he will act better, but it's typically short lived. I got a text from him today saying: "Thank you for being a good wife and mother to our family. I love you beautiful". I don't even want to respond. He does it because I sent him a text several days ago saying the same about him(minus the good husband part), saying he is a good dad and provider.


You are creating a parent/child dynamic instead of a partner dynamic. Stop getting upset, instead get logical. It's the only thing that works because you can't deny logic. It's a matter of simple boundaries and consequences. You have boundaries around being treated fairly, you explain them to him, and if he chooses to step OVER those boundaries, you will enact YOUR consequence - what YOU do if he does the wrong thing. Notice you aren't telling him what to do; you're telling him IF he chooses to do ABC, YOU will then do XYZ to protect yourself from it.

"Husband, if you raise your voice to me I'm going to leave the room. You can yell all you want, I'm not telling you what to do. But I won't stay in the room if you do. Your choice."

And if you can't stand up to him start going to therapy to learn how.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> it all changed on our honeymoon.


Which tells me he put on an act - up until the day when he 'had' you. HE knew what he expected in a marriage - a cook/maid/hooker/au pair. Who would do what he wanted and keep her opinions to herself.

btw, my 'theory' is of course a generalization to describe the psychological tendencies we have as men and women. There are always people who don't fit into generalizations. Doesn't make the outcome any different.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Stop getting upset, instead get logical. It's the only thing that works because you can't deny logic. It's a matter of simple boundaries and consequences. You have boundaries around being treated fairly, you explain them to him, and if he chooses to step OVER those boundaries, you will enact YOUR consequence - what YOU do if he does the wrong thing. Notice you aren't telling him what to do; you're telling him IF he chooses to do ABC, YOU will then do XYZ to protect yourself from it.
> 
> "Husband, if you raise your voice to me I'm going to leave the room. You can yell all you want, I'm not telling you what to do. But I won't stay in the room if you do. Your choice."
> 
> And if you can't stand up to him start going to therapy to learn how.


Thanks. I'll work on doing that. I just feel like I'm being mean when I do that and have a hard time holding my ground.


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## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> Thanks. I'll work on doing that. I just feel like I'm being mean when I do that and have a hard time holding my ground.


It might feel like that the first few times, then before you know it, it actually becomes your new 'normal' and stops feeling mean. Being assertive is good for both of you.


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## meson

Anonymous07 said:


> Thanks. I'll work on doing that. I just feel like I'm being mean when I do that and have a hard time holding my ground.


It's not being mean. It's how to communicate your needs in a way that a man is more atune towards.


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## turnera

It's not being mean, it's SEEING yourself as his equal. Would you allow your best friend to walk all over you like that? No. You'd tell her she's being a jerk and you don't appreciate it. 

Why is he any different?


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## Anonymous07

Thanks. 

I wouldn't care to make a friend upset, they can get over it, but I have a hard time "hurting" my husband. 

We had a long talk last night about our marriage and hopefully can move forward.


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## fightforher

What did you resolve to do in the future that is different?


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## fightforher

What chapter of give and take are you up to now. I just hit chapter nine ... Slow reader


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I wouldn't care to make a friend upset, they can get over it, but I have a hard time "hurting" my husband.
> 
> We had a long talk last night about our marriage and hopefully can move forward.


Did you discuss your boundaries? What was agreed upon?

If you share what you discussed here, we can show you what has a chance and what will be a problem.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> What chapter of give and take are you up to now. I just hit chapter nine ... Slow reader


We're supposed to read chapter 8 tonight, but still need to do the questionnaire in the back for chapter 7 about love busters. He said he was too tired to do it 2 nights ago, so hopefully we'll do it tonight.


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## Anonymous07

Honestly, we didn't agree upon much, other than that we both know we have a major problem in our marriage. We're both unhappy and feel alone. 

We talked about continuing on with the book and he talked about what he wants from me. I told him what I wanted more of from him, but I don't think I was clear enough, as I don't think he understood.


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## Anonymous07

We didn't get to the book last night because I was too exhausted and basically passed out on the couch.  I never expected weaning my son from breastfeeding to be so taxing on my body. The side effects I'm getting are insane(major hot flashes, tiredness, mood swings, nausea, etc.). Ugh.


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## Anonymous07

I don't get it. 

We had a great day yesterday and last night. We went through the love busters questionnaire together and really communicated. My husband was loving, understanding, and we talked about what we needed to work on. We were both open with each other. Everything went great! 

Then today, one day later, he gets pissy over something small and is lecturing me when we just talked about that love buster! This was all over me putting the laundry basket on top of my car hood because we're having a pest issue( magot bugs) again in our garage, so I moved the basket off the floor so they wouldn't get in our clothes and it lightly scratched my car.


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## skype

Anon, tell him as calmly as you can that his lecturing is a love buster. It is one thing to agree to stop this ingrained habit, and a very different thing to actually do it.

He will have one step forward and two steps back for awhile until the new habit takes hold.


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## turnera

He can say he'll change all he wants. But it takes work. And he has to really want it. But it also takes YOU not accepting his poor behavior. So what did you do when he lectured you? You have to change YOUR response as well, right? "H, I'm your wife, not your child. If you lecture me, I'm going to leave the room and go do something else. And by the way, what are we doing about the maggots?"


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## fightforher

Sorry, but it is going to take the "work" part now. He has to come to realize which is more important "his marriage", or "a scratch on a car."

When you look at it logically, it is obvious which is more important. But, in the heat of the moment, the car wins out. This is not because it is actually more important at the time. It is because there is a long standing habit of just lecturing about the damage to the car (or whatever it is).

The habit now takes time to break. But he needs to be told, when both of you are calm, that this is a habit that needs to be broken. He needs to understand that you did not deliberately try to scratch the car. He needs to understand that you would never hurt him or something he cares about on purpose.

Habits are tough to break. But with enough desire, this habit can be broken I believe.

Hang in there.


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## fightforher

turnera said:


> He can say he'll change all he wants. But it takes work. And he has to really want it. But it also takes YOU not accepting his poor behavior. So what did you do when he lectured you? You have to change YOUR response as well, right? "H, *I'm your wife, not your child*. If you lecture me, I'm going to leave the room and go do something else. And by the way, what are we doing about the maggots?"


Very good advice.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> He can say he'll change all he wants. But it takes work. And he has to really want it. But it also takes YOU not accepting his poor behavior. So what did you do when he lectured you? You have to change YOUR response as well, right? "H, I'm your wife, not your child. If you lecture me, I'm going to leave the room and go do something else. And by the way, what are we doing about the maggots?"


I walked away because I didn't want to say something stupid. I was really mad that he would be angry over something I thought was stupid. We still need to talk about it later. 

As for the maggots, we've never had an issue like this before. I don't even know where they're coming from. We've thoroughly washed/cleaned the trash cans and they don't seem to be coming from there. I can't figure out where they're coming from. They're near the trash cans, but also near the door to our patio? Coming from inside the wall? I don't know. I sprayed to kill them.


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## fightforher

Eeeewww, maggots. Perhaps something died in the wall and they are consuming it. Do you have a mouse or rat problem?


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Eeeewww, maggots. Perhaps something died in the wall and they are consuming it. Do you have a mouse or rat problem?


No, no rodent problem. Not sure what's going on. 

The set up of the condo is the street, the garage, the patio(small backyard/what ever you want to call it), then the house. There are about 5 condos per building and we're an end unit, so we're only attached on one side to a neighbor. I don't know how my neighbor's garage is, so not sure if they have an issue with anything. I've never seen or heard anything in mine. We moved in almost 3 months ago and this is the second time in 3 weeks we've seen these nasty worms crawling in the garage. Nothing in the house, thank God, but the issue in the garage is grossing me out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous07

I don't get why my husband fights me so much on some stupid topic. For over an hour he would not admit he did anything wrong, when I kept pointing out how I felt lectured by him and that he was valuing the car over me(it's a small scratch! on my car, not his. NOT a big deal.). It wasn't until I was heading off to bed that he apologized.


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## turnera

Why did you have to keep hammering at him to get him to admit ANYthing? What purpose does that serve? It sure won't make him like you more or make him want to please you. YOU didn't like being lectured to, so why should he like being badgered for an hour? I don't think you're understanding the concept here.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Why did you have to keep hammering at him to get him to admit ANYthing? What purpose does that serve? It sure won't make him like you more or make him want to please you. YOU didn't like being lectured to, so why should he like being badgered for an hour? I don't think you're understanding the concept here.


I wanted him to recognize when he is lecturing me because he denies that he was lecturing me. How can he change something that he doesn't acknowledge? If he doesn't see it as lecturing, then it will never stop and he'll continue to do it forever.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> I wanted him to recognize when he is lecturing me because he denies that he was lecturing me. How can he change something that he doesn't acknowledge? If he doesn't see it as lecturing, then it will never stop and he'll continue to do it forever.


No, that doesn't work. Trust me. You're just building a wall he will refuse to cross over.

What you do is say "I don't deserve to be lectured" and you walk away from him when he is Love Busting you. Period.

He's free to lecture away - to the air in front of him. You can't control him. You can't teach him. You can't make him care about you. You CAN protect yourself and enact consequences (you leaving the room) when he oversteps your boundaries. That's the adult way to handle this. All you did was lower yourself to his level and ensure that he is now off in his own corner, licking his wounds and probably hating you just a little right now.

Do NOT discuss the semantics, because he will just deny, defend, and STOP LISTENING to you. SHOW him how to respect you, and he will. He'll figure it out.


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## fightforher

At first I was going to post some sympathy for you. Your situation ringing a lot of bells in my head that mirror my own situations. However, after reading the post from Turnera I think that the advice is better than sympathy from me.

Take the advice, do it. Don't follow my footsteps. Walk out the door when the lecture starts. In the words of Nike .. "JUST DO IT."


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> No, that doesn't work. Trust me. You're just building a wall he will refuse to cross over.
> 
> What you do is say "I don't deserve to be lectured" and you walk away from him when he is Love Busting you. Period.
> 
> He's free to lecture away - to the air in front of him. You can't control him. You can't teach him. You can't make him care about you. You CAN protect yourself and enact consequences (you leaving the room) when he oversteps your boundaries. That's the adult way to handle this. All you did was lower yourself to his level and ensure that he is now off in his own corner, licking his wounds and probably hating you just a little right now.
> 
> Do NOT discuss the semantics, because he will just deny, defend, and STOP LISTENING to you. SHOW him how to respect you, and he will. He'll figure it out.


Thanks. I need this on repeat in my head to make sure I follow through.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> Thanks. I need this on repeat in my head to make sure I follow through.


:iagree:


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> We had a great day yesterday and last night. We went through the love busters questionnaire together and really communicated. My husband was loving, understanding, and we talked about what we needed to work on. We were both open with each other. Everything went great!
> 
> Then today, one day later, he gets pissy over something small and is lecturing me when we just talked about that love buster! This was all over me putting the laundry basket on top of my car hood because we're having a pest issue( magot bugs) again in our garage, so I moved the basket off the floor so they wouldn't get in our clothes and it lightly scratched my car.


I actually disagree with the boundaries and walking away....

He is venting. He is sharing his frustration about the car. Listen to his words and pair them with the emotion prompting them. Respond to the emotion behind the words. 

If you want to be heard by him, you must also hear him.

The lecture makes you feel like a child. I get that and felt the same way when my husband lectured me, always about money as well, and I'm not a a big spender either.

The emotion behind these kind of lectures is anxiety over providing and being able to provide. It's a sort of control issue about money. Anytime you cause money to be spent he is reminded that "as the man he is to provide for his family" yet he has no control over the expenses. He feels like the work he does to take care of his family isn't being appreciated when you scratch up the car.

(My husband was worse. Anytime any money had to spent, outside of the grocery bill, he got anxious. I learned that if he was with me when the money was spent, he felt less anxiety. If he had a say in the spending, he felt less anxious. He is on TAM now, maybe I should direct him to this thread...?)

Yes it was on the silly side. Yes you had excellent cause to place the laundry basket where you did. But instead of "hearing" him chastise you for causing a scratch (parental type lecture) you might have gone further by hearing him try to say, " I feel so pressured to provide for my family and this scratch on the car feels like you don't care about how hard it is to keep things in working order."

Had you responded with, "you're right, I should have been more careful about where I put the laundry basket. I'm sorry I caused a scratch on the car. I just wasn't thinking at the time. I'll be more careful..." Lecture over! He has been heard and now feels validated. Once you're certain he has felt heard and validated, then you two can calmly discuss the maggot issue.

And BTW, I'd check behind wall and everywhere for a dead carcass somewhere...Euw! Borrow someone's dog and bring them into the garage, the dog might be able to lead you to the dead animal.


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## turnera

Anon, that would depend on whether he did it once because he felt overwhelmed by a particular situation, or whether it is his MO. If he controls the marriage by lecturing and being right and criticizing - as it seems to me according to everything she's been writing - then she needs to change the dynamics. Nicing him isn't going to stop a lifelong tendency.


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## Anon Pink

turnera said:


> Anon, that would depend on whether he did it once because he felt overwhelmed by a particular situation, or whether it is his MO. If he controls the marriage by lecturing and being right and criticizing - as it seems to me according to everything she's been writing - then she needs to change the dynamics. Nicing him isn't going to stop a lifelong tendency.


Totally agree Turnera. But, I have found in my own marriage that when I react defensively instead of hearing the emotion behind his words it prolongs the situation and the attitude and resulting power struggle becomes entrenched resentments. And that helps nothing.

Seek first to understand, second to be understood. Once you are certain you've done all you can to understand HIS feelings, then you bring out the 2x4 to get him to understand yours...


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## turnera

Doesn't work with abusive people.


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## fightforher

Anon, I understand what you are saying. And I love your approach to this. Understanding the driving force (emotion) behind it first, and then sharing the same in return. Sounds so beautiful and wonderful I almost want to have a fight with you just to feel that connection that you create. :lol:

I also know that abusive relationship have a hard time executing this strategy.


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## Anon Pink

turnera said:


> Doesn't work with abusive people.


I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. Anyone can be labeled abusive if they show strong emotions in the presence of someone who can't handle strong emoting. But if you're talking about the classic abusive spouse yes I think you're right and in that case leaving is your only safe option.



fightforher said:


> Anon, I understand what you are saying. And I love your approach to this. Understanding the driving force (emotion) behind it first, and then sharing the same in return. Sounds so beautiful and wonderful I almost want to have a fight with you just to feel that connection that you create. :lol:
> 
> I also know that abusive relationship have a hard time executing this strategy.


In your case FFH, maybe your wife morphed from strong emoting to abusing because she could? Maybe she made that transition because it was too easy to vent at you and on you and the more it was allowed to continue the worse she got. Kind of like unchecked power....you know what I mean?

It doesn't matter why she morphed into the anusive realm but now that she has, the only thing that WILL work is air tight lock down of boundaries and you'll need a lot of relearning things to get there.

Have you made those appointments yet?


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## fightforher

Anon Pink said:


> In your case FFH, maybe your wife morphed from strong emoting to abusing because she could?*Most likely yes* Maybe she made that transition because it was too easy to vent at you and on you and the more it was allowed to continue the worse she got.*Yup* Kind of like unchecked power....you know what I mean?
> 
> It doesn't matter why she morphed into the anusive realm but now that she has, the only thing that WILL work is air tight lock down of boundaries and you'll need a lot of relearning things to get there.
> 
> Have you made those appointments yet?


Chatted with one so far. But there are complications. Now I know that it is not always so easy to get counselling when you need it.


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## Anon Pink

It sure isn't! And isn't that absurd? The time when you are most fragile, most vulnerable and you have to stay strong enough to keep calling down that list to find someone who is:
Actually at the number listed
Taking new patients 
Accpeting your insurance
Has an opening within a month
Has flexible enough office hours so you actually can meet with them
AND seems to be the right fit!

It's exhausting!


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Anon, that would depend on whether he did it once because he felt overwhelmed by a particular situation, or whether it is his MO. If he controls the marriage by lecturing and being right and criticizing - as it seems to me according to everything she's been writing - then she needs to change the dynamics. Nicing him isn't going to stop a lifelong tendency.


He blames his reactions on work stress. It's been a constant since he has not been able to move up yet and his boss is holding a grudge about a miscommunication. He has become more confident at work lately and has also had two training sessions as well, so hopefully things in that area can change fairly soon. I think it would help him feel better to get a better job where he can use his degree and knowledge to earn a higher income. 



Anon Pink said:


> Totally agree Turnera. But, I have found in my own marriage that when I react defensively instead of hearing the emotion behind his words it prolongs the situation and the attitude and resulting power struggle becomes entrenched resentments. And that helps nothing.
> 
> Seek first to understand, second to be understood. Once you are certain you've done all you can to understand HIS feelings, then you bring out the 2x4 to get him to understand yours...


Can't I just use the 2x4 first? :rofl: I'm just kidding. 

I have a lot of trouble in that area to hold back and listen through on what he's saying. A lot of the topics tend to be things that repeat over and over(work related issues) and it starts driving me crazy. He doesn't feel like he has "control" at work, so he wants to control things in other areas(what I'm doing). We've talked about that issue a number of times, but it has yet to sink in. Although reading the book we have has really started to make things click for my husband. He won't always listen to me, but if someone else says it then it's good.


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## Anonymous07

We went through another chapter last night, the one on how to overcome the angry outburst love buster. Reading through the book, I can see a number of similarities between my husband and the guy Mike in the book, but I also have to say my husband isn't as bad and he has made a good amount of improvement in different areas. I can see things start to click a bit for my husband, so I do think the book is helping a lot. It's just taking time for things to be put into practice, as we're both learning how to get back to where we were before marriage.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> He doesn't feel like he has "control" at work, so he wants to control things in other areas(what I'm doing). We've talked about that issue a number of times, but it has yet to sink in.


As I've been telling you ad nauseum, *stop trying to make him change*.

Show him a CONSEQUENCE when he tells you what to do. If he yells on the phone, hang up. If he gets in your face, leave the room. If he lectures you about a chore, tell him it's his chore now.

Consequences are the ONLY way he will learn and WANT to change - to avoid the consequences.


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## RelationshipGardening

Hello Anon07
I read all 23 pages of your thread, phew! I am so impressed with the persistence in seeking to grow your marriage, and how this group really shows up! I can think of a few things that might help. 1. Patricia Evans (search for her online) writes about a technique called "limiting abuse" and it is a lot like some folks here urge, but here is a sample. "Did I just hear you call me lazy?I am not here to be called names, so I am going to take a walk and be back in 10 minutes." You do this without an argument, and at the first awareness that you have been labelled or told how you think or feel. Here is same for replying to when he defines you, " did you just say I am angry, selfish and only thinking of my family of origin? You dont get to define what I am, so I am not going to stay in the room when you do that." When I counsel gals in Portland to start limiting abuse, we brainstorm options of what to do that is in the house, near, away, out with a friend, or family, even to movies. Then we physically practice till she feels like she can say the words, get up, and walk out of room. This is not a direct recommendation because I dont know if someone reading this will try it and her man get violent, so you have to gage what he may do based on what he has done too. There is another thought about why sudden change on hobeymoon and it is more of Evans' work about narcissistic partners. God, I hate labels, but anyway it is like your man has a fantasy image of you that then crashes in anger when the real woman (you) shows up. A partner like this gets miffed or enraged, punishing if you even ask what they want, because fantasy woman would know already. Heavens to mergatroid if you ask for something, or need anything! The shattering of the fantasy stirs up all kinds of shame and hurt that doesnt get expressed in healthy ways, just repressed. You can try having your husband record the two of you, and play it back so he can hear himself. Limiting abuse helps both of you. There is chronic broken trust from lack of reciprocity of affection, kindness and compliments, as well as the adult tantrums. So you can just fix it by being nice, you have to consider this time to upgrade how to be with each other...a tune up. Tell him that it is like the IRS audited your marriage and you have several areas to fix or else it will eventually entirely unravel. Being a money guy, maybe he would like to get some new skills in place because who wants the iRS breathing down your neck! Check out Gottman books on making love last, or the 7 principles for making marriage work (there is an Aftermath booklet you can get from the Gottman Institute to walk through healthy conflict discussions so you can get validation and a whole lot more based on healthy marriages). Take good care of you!


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## RelationshipGardening

Correction..typo not you can fix it just by being nice..I meant cannot


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## RelationshipGardening

There is a couple in Australia, the Coopers, and they are role models for one way to go about healing a marriage like yours. Both Patricia Evans and Kim Cooper do address what to do to get at the partner's healing. Evans is more about the limits I posted earlier and the other piece, let's say your husband loving all the soft, emotional, creative, etc parts he keeps stowing away in you, rejecting in himself. In your lives, you already have church so your best bet if no one will go to counseling, is to both meet with your spiritual leaders, ask about your married ministers, if you have any, starting even an informal couples potluck with childcare, husband committing to a men's group in your church where more whole self accepting men hopefully will be and can role model self and spousal kindness. Ask if an announcement can be made to gather couples in a weekly book study on marriage building, and read a chapter, go talk a little, have a potluck, adult conversation, and make marriage growth more on the table as "this is what we do and who would like to join us?" Then you grow as a byproduct friends who are pro marriage, allies of the marriage and making it better!


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## Anonymous07

My husband has been really nice this past week and yet I feel indifferent.  

We were watching Bones on Netflix last night and I had an unexpected trigger. The show was about a sperm donor and he ended up getting this lady pregnant. The guy was not into kids and was mean about it all, laughing in her face after finding out she was pregnant. It suddenly brought back up feelings/memories from when I was pregnant and I didn't expect any of it. The pain and anger from how my husband treated me in regards to my pregnancy flooded my brain. The way he showed no excitement and told me I was lazy for sleeping more often during the first trimester. He wouldn't help me with the aches and pains of pregnancy during the third trimester or if he did, would ask for a massage for himself, too(have to be "equal"?). Suddenly, I felt like he was miles away even though I was sitting next to him on the couch and my mind was reeling. 

I thought I had gotten past a lot of the hurt/resentment I had, but I guess I haven't gotten as far as I thought. 

We've both been sick this past week, so maybe that plays into it, too. I'm just now feeling better without having as much of a runny nose and sore throat, but my husband is still coughing all the time, which is making it really hard to get any sleep.


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## turnera

Anonymous07 said:


> My husband has been really nice this past week and yet I feel indifferent.
> 
> We were watching Bones on Netflix last night and I had an unexpected trigger. The show was about a sperm donor and he ended up getting this lady pregnant. The guy was not into kids and was mean about it all, laughing in her face after finding out she was pregnant. It suddenly brought back up feelings/memories from when I was pregnant and I didn't expect any of it. The pain and anger from how my husband treated me in regards to my pregnancy flooded my brain. The way he showed no excitement and told me I was lazy for sleeping more often during the first trimester. He wouldn't help me with the aches and pains of pregnancy during the third trimester or if he did, would ask for a massage for himself, too(have to be "equal"?). Suddenly, I felt like he was miles away even though I was sitting next to him on the couch and my mind was reeling.
> 
> I thought I had gotten past a lot of the hurt/resentment I had, but I guess I haven't gotten as far as I thought.
> 
> We've both been sick this past week, so maybe that plays into it, too. I'm just now feeling better without having as much of a runny nose and sore throat, but my husband is still coughing all the time, which is making it really hard to get any sleep.


Have you guys ever resolved all that? Did he 'get it?' Make up for it?


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Have you guys ever resolved all that? Did he 'get it?' Make up for it?


No, but that's because I never brought it up and kept it to myself. I had brought up something similar in the past and he got mad at me for bring up things we have already "gotten over" and that the past should be left in the past.


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## turnera

Well, you'll never have a real relationship until such things can be discussed.


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> My husband has been really nice this past week and yet I feel indifferent.
> 
> We were watching Bones on Netflix last night and I had an unexpected trigger. The show was about a sperm donor and he ended up getting this lady pregnant. The guy was not into kids and was mean about it all, laughing in her face after finding out she was pregnant. It suddenly brought back up feelings/memories from when I was pregnant and I didn't expect any of it. The pain and anger from how my husband treated me in regards to my pregnancy flooded my brain. The way he showed no excitement and told me I was lazy for sleeping more often during the first trimester. He wouldn't help me with the aches and pains of pregnancy during the third trimester or if he did, would ask for a massage for himself, too(have to be "equal"?). Suddenly, I felt like he was miles away even though I was sitting next to him on the couch and my mind was reeling.
> 
> I thought I had gotten past a lot of the hurt/resentment I had, but I guess I haven't gotten as far as I thought.
> 
> *You may never get over it until you talk about it and clear the air. This sounds like a big one to me. To begin with, he should have been supportive rather than accusing you of sleeping too much or ignoring the aches and pains. When you are pregnant your body goes through a lot of changes (if it did not things are wrong according to my wife's OBGYN). So sleeping and having discomfort and feeling different are all part of it as the hormones go into effect. *
> 
> We've both been sick this past week, so maybe that plays into it, too. I'm just now feeling better without having as much of a runny nose and sore throat, but my husband is still coughing all the time, which is making it really hard to get any sleep.





Anonymous07 said:


> No, but that's because I never brought it up and kept it to myself. I had brought up something similar in the past and he got mad at me for bring up things we have already "gotten over" and that the past should be left in the past.


I think you are going to have to bring it up to provide some healing. When a TV show brings back the triggers, and you feel like this, then you are definitely not over it.

Do you have friends you can talk to about this? If so, then I would suggest you write down your feelings about the experience. And then share with your friend. This way you have some support and some knowledge that your feelings are valid and that what you experienced was a less than helpful husband when you needed him to be there. Then you can show him what you have written down and even if he scoffs at it and says it is in the past, you have the knowledge that your friend was supportive. Then you can try to talk about it calmly.

I am sorry that you had to experience your pregnancy this way. What a poor memory of something that was suppose to be so wonderful.


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> Well, you'll never have a real relationship until such things can be discussed.


I plan to talk to him about it tonight after he gets home from work and our son is in bed. 



fightforher said:


> I think you are going to have to bring it up to provide some healing. When a TV show brings back the triggers, and you feel like this, then you are definitely not over it.
> 
> Do you have friends you can talk to about this? If so, then I would suggest you write down your feelings about the experience. And then share with your friend. This way you have some support and some knowledge that your feelings are valid and that what you experienced was a less than helpful husband when you needed him to be there. Then you can show him what you have written down and even if he scoffs at it and says it is in the past, you have the knowledge that your friend was supportive. Then you can try to talk about it calmly.
> 
> I am sorry that you had to experience your pregnancy this way. What a poor memory of something that was suppose to be so wonderful.


I try not to talk to friends or family about my marriage problems because I don't want them to hold grudges against him. The only place I share that info is on here. 

I did write down what I want to talk to him about, so that way I won't forget. It's easier to have it all out on paper instead of relying on my sleep deprived brain(son slept through the night, but husband kept me up with his coughing. ugh). I hope it all goes over well tonight. He has been more loving, affectionate, and so on lately, so I want to point that out too, as it's nice to see. 

I was holding a friend's baby the other day and had baby fever for the evening until thoughts of my pregnancy came back to mind. As much as I love the idea of another child, I don't want to ever experience the same thing again. I remember too many nights crying myself to sleep from an unsupportive husband while I was pregnant with our son. When my husband and I were talking about my SIL's pregnancy and I brought up the hurt/pain from when I was pregnant, and my husband said he doesn't remember acting as I said he did. He has no memory of it, but it's still painful for me to think about.


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## turnera

How did the talk go?


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> I plan to talk to him about it tonight after he gets home from work and our son is in bed.
> 
> 
> 
> I try not to talk to friends or family about my marriage problems because I don't want them to hold grudges against him. The only place I share that info is on here.
> 
> *I fully understand. I never want to come across as the complainer or as the person that makes their spouse look less than ideal. I want my friends to see the best in my spouse.*
> 
> I did write down what I want to talk to him about, so that way I won't forget. It's easier to have it all out on paper instead of relying on my sleep deprived brain(son slept through the night, but husband kept me up with his coughing. ugh). I hope it all goes over well tonight. He has been more loving, affectionate, and so on lately, so I want to point that out too, as it's nice to see.
> 
> I was holding a friend's baby the other day and had baby fever for the evening until thoughts of my pregnancy came back to mind. As much as I love the idea of another child, I don't want to ever experience the same thing again. I remember too many nights crying myself to sleep from an unsupportive husband while I was pregnant with our son. When my husband and I were talking about my SIL's pregnancy and I brought up the hurt/pain from when I was pregnant, and my husband said he doesn't remember acting as I said he did. He has no memory of it, but it's still painful for me to think about.


Hope your talk went well. I hope you can get him to understand your feelings about what it was like to be pregnant. It is also very sad to think that your choice of having a second child is based on how his lack of support. I am sorry. But I am rooting for you to express yourself so he understands.


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## Anonymous07

The talk went well and he talked about how he knows he messed up, but he is no longer the same man he was before. He is changing and being more loving/supportive. I do know he is trying and he also knows it may take a while for me to feel more comfortable with everything, as I learn to let go of the past. 

This weekend was great, too. My husband was so attentive to my needs, it was almost weird. I almost felt like asking him why he was being so nice and loving.


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## turnera

What do you need from him to be able to let go of the hurt he caused?


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## fightforher

Anonymous07 said:


> The talk went well and he talked about how he knows he messed up, but he is no longer the same man he was before. He is changing and being more loving/supportive. I do know he is trying and he also knows it may take a while for me to feel more comfortable with everything, as I learn to let go of the past.
> 
> This weekend was great, too. My husband was *so attentive to my needs*, it was almost weird. I almost felt like asking him why he was being so nice and loving.


Glad to hear that. Do you think he feels guilty of what he did in the past?


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## Anonymous07

turnera said:


> What do you need from him to be able to let go of the hurt he caused?


Honestly, I don't know. :scratchhead: I've had a hard time letting it all go. 



fightforher said:


> Glad to hear that. Do you think he feels guilty of what he did in the past?


I think so, not sure. 

In the middle of the week(last week), he came home from work and was acting more loving(not his normal self). That night he apologized for being a bad husband, saying he screwed up big time before and that I deserve better. He wants to be better for me, loves me, and is working hard to be the husband I deserve. He brought it up on his own and I was taken off guard. Didn't expect anything like that. It was kind of weird. I asked him if something happened that day, but he said no. Don't know what brought up that, but it was a good change. He's been more loving and affectionate since. He doesn't complain and does what is needed(went right to getting the dishes done without a word). I'm really happy with how he is now, but don't know what happened to get there.


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## fightforher

Hard to say. But I am guessing that something triggered it. It could be that he just got scared because he saw one of his co-workers getting a divorce or something. Could be that he has just been thinking about how much you have put into fixing things, and realized that he needs to pull his half too.

Give him some time, and he will probably tell you.


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> Hard to say. But I am guessing that something triggered it. It could be that he just got scared because he saw one of his co-workers getting a divorce or something. Could be that he has just been thinking about how much you have put into fixing things, and realized that he needs to pull his half too.
> 
> Give him some time, and he will probably tell you.


His coworker is getting married soon, but I don't think that caused the change. Either way, he's been an amazing husband lately. I have no complaints.


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## fightforher

I am so happy for you.


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## meson

Good to hear there has been improvement!


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## Anonymous07

fightforher said:


> I am so happy for you.





meson said:


> Good to hear there has been improvement!


Thank you!!

I don't know if I'll ever know what caused the change, but I'm not complaining. He has been so loving, not complaining/nit picking, and not fighting me on stupid stuff. We'll talk and then move on. It's been really great.


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## fightforher

A happy teary huge from me.


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## heartsbeating

Anonymous07 said:


> Thank you!!
> 
> I don't know if I'll ever know what caused the change, but I'm not complaining. He has been so loving, not complaining/nit picking, and not fighting me on stupid stuff. We'll talk and then move on. It's been really great.


Good to hear that he's making an effort.

However my concern is that your focus is still on him rather than yourself. Are _you_ behaving differently - expressing assertively, listening actively? I can only assume that you are and that you're both feeding off one another's efforts.


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## heartsbeating

And good to see you back here  Pretty sure I clicked on this thread last week and you were banned? I don't need details but unless my eyes were playing tricks on me, it's grand to see you here.


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## CharlieParker

heartsbeating said:


> Good to hear that he's making an effort.
> 
> However my concern is that your focus is still on him rather than yourself. Are _you_ behaving differently - expressing assertively, listening actively? I can only assume that you are and that you're both feeding off one another's efforts.


Thank you, basically exactly what I was going to say. 

Feeding off one another is great way to describe it. In about year 18 we went from a (recently) crappy place to pretty good place within about a week after she unilaterally "let go of the little things", it was contagious and fast. (Just an example, not saying that is you two.) A  is order no matter what.


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## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> Good to hear that he's making an effort.
> 
> However my concern is that your focus is still on him rather than yourself. Are _you_ behaving differently - expressing assertively, listening actively? I can only assume that you are and that you're both feeding off one another's efforts.


Assertive.. yes, but working on the active listening still... slowly getting there. 

My husband has been more open as well and will try new things. I think he's learning to let go of the fear/stress that has basically controlled his life. Logically looking at everything, he has no reason to be so stressed and I think he sees more of that now. 



heartsbeating said:


> And good to see you back here  Pretty sure I clicked on this thread last week and you were banned? I don't need details but unless my eyes were playing tricks on me, it's grand to see you here.


Yes, I got banned. A guy ticked me off about the way he talked about his wife, so I said some things that were not very nice, but still don't feel bad about any of it.


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## heartsbeating

Just checking in ....how are you going in all of this?


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## Anonymous07

heartsbeating said:


> Just checking in ....how are you going in all of this?


Still doing well...  Which sadly, kind of surprises me, but it's been good. I'm not totally sure how things changed to where they are now, but I'm happy.


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## Anon Pink

Anonymous07 said:


> Assertive.. yes, but working on the active listening still... slowly getting there.
> 
> My husband has been more open as well and will try new things. I think he's learning to let go of the fear/stress that has basically controlled his life. Logically looking at everything, he has no reason to be so stressed and I think he sees more of that now.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I got banned. A guy ticked me off about the way he talked about his wife, so I said some things that were not very nice, but still don't feel bad about any of it.


OMG you're mini me!

So as we begin to learn new ways for this new marriage we must remind ourselves to say thank you. Thank you for paying attention to our relationship and thank you for being so brave to try things differently. You're my guy!


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## Anon Pink

I think you shoul read The Submissive Wife, if only because it's a very short easy read and it gives real world examples of how we sometimes need to let to of things and give unconditional support.

Smart chicks can be hard to live with you know?


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## heartsbeating

Anon Pink said:


> OMG you're mini me!
> 
> So as we begin to learn new ways for this new marriage we must remind ourselves to say thank you. Thank you for paying attention to our relationship and thank you for being so brave to try things differently. You're my guy!


oooh... you're good. This is great advice. 

Displaying gratitude is always a wonderful thing for both yourself and your relationship.


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## thumbper

Anon Pink said:


> OMG you're mini me!
> 
> So as we begin to learn new ways for this new marriage we must remind ourselves to say thank you. Thank you for paying attention to our relationship and thank you for being so brave to try things differently. *You're my guy!*


Speaking from the point of view of....a husband that was emotionally disconnected through many years of marriage and is now in the reformation period........this is a very important point. After many years of thinking you are *THE MAN*, the realization that your wife is unhappy, unfulfilled and disinterested in you, is a major blow to the male psyche. If change is taking place and the desired behavior is evident, the thank yous and recognition will be extremely helpful in making the behavior permanant and repairing the male ego.


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