# She's defying my reality...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Recently my wife and I have been having a rather passionate and romantic time together. I've loosened up a lot and she's quite happy... for now. The thing is, from what I've learnt with women over the years, it is simply not wise to be too romantic or too passionate or too lovey dovey - in other words, too easy. It gives off the impression that one is weak, or putting them on a pedestal, clingy, or beta etc etc.

Now I'm not allowing myself to become a doormat, in fact I'm waiting for her to pull a b-fit so I can justify hardening up again. But I am allowing myself to be more emotional and vulnerable with her, and to share to her my worries, thoughts, bleh - which is very unmanly in my opinion. Most probably I'm losing her respect subconsciously for sharing even though how blissful she acts now.

I'm still the way I am when it comes to seduction, I never ask, I either take her or play with her until she can't take the tease. But I'm no longer pushing her away, except for fun to see her reaction and to play hard to get. After years of marriage I've never dared to trust her like this.

Yet I never thought I would ever be put into a position where I would fear losing her, or losing her desire. From my experience you simply can't be too nice, women will take it for granted, get spoiled, and try to make you into a doormat. Everyone has a limit... but my wife, she's defying my reality.

Am I wrong for my distrust?
How can any woman respect a man who is weak?
I see all these threads about being more alpha, more alpha, yet I'm doing the opposite being beta... am I digging my own grave?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

OMG!! YOU THINK WAY TOO MUCH!!

Just be real and be yourself and be nice but don't be a douche or a whiny baby.

Why do you have to think everything to death? It just causes problems for yourself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And another thing, random emotional crap, like SMSing each other random ILUs, been thinking about u and all that sh-t, that's pathetic yes? After a while it will become routine and lose its meaning when used too much correct?

And doesn't she need space as well... why doesn't she want space? Why is she always trying to get close to me?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

All about balance grasshopper.

In the scheme of things, I think you're doin' just fine.

All of the alpha comments in other threads are generally made in the case of a guy who is too much the other end of the spectrum.

It's never about 'which one' you are. It's about whether or not you can move up and down the curve of both ... while fostering your own self-respect, and attraction from your partner.

And yeah ... you do think too much. But I know you want your marriage to work. Right?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

that_girl said:


> OMG!! YOU THINK WAY TOO MUCH!!
> 
> Just be real and be yourself and be nice but don't be a douche or a whiny baby.
> 
> Why do you have to think everything to death? It just causes problems for yourself.


Well I'm not being a douche, I'm hoping for an opportunity to be a douche again however, as for being a whiny baby that's what sharing is to me. Sure she was my best friend for years but the fact is now we are a couple sharing worries/issues is the lady's job, not the man's job correct?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

maybe you need to change your 'reality'.
but in a manly way with your boundaries still in tact.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> All about balance grasshopper.
> In the scheme of things, I think you're doin' just fine.
> All of the alpha comments in other threads are generally made in the case of a guy who is too much the other end of the spectrum.
> It's never about 'which one' you are. It's about whether or not you can move up and down the curve of both ... while fostering your own self-respect, and attraction from your partner.
> And yeah ... you do think too much. But I know you want your marriage to work. Right?


Hmmm, balance, I now find it harder to achieve in practice then in theory lol
Well, I will lose my own self-respect if I end up too beta, but that's just me =/

Also another thing, admitting jealousy - isn't that weak? Or admitting lovey doveys - normally I TIME my lovey doveys for specific moments where it's very well recieved, instead of an everyday thing. But now it's an everyday thing, that's weak yes?



> maybe you need to change your 'reality'.
> but in a manly way with your boundaries still in tact.


Well my boundaries are still in tact, I'm just waiting for my wife to dare to cross it so I can start WW102839281 again so I don't have to be like this and feel beta and feel vulnerable. Bah  I'm confused!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> OMG!! YOU THINK WAY TOO MUCH!!
> 
> Just be real and be yourself and be nice but don't be a douche or a whiny baby.
> 
> Why do you have to think everything to death? It just causes problems for yourself.


:iagree: exactly what i was going to say


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I just like to be a few steps ahead of whatever comes.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But you can't predict the future. Enjoy the now. It's not that hard. Make your choices about the NOW. You just think way too much. It must be exhausting.

How can you enjoy the Now if you're always trying to guess the Then?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Stop thinking so much. Sharing your inner soul is not what makes a man a whimp. If you get all sensative, whimy, talk about being the victim of eveything.. then yes that's whimpy.

But telling her your inner thoughts, hope, dreams.. that's call emotional intimacy.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I whine about work =/
Ok, that's crossed out, I'll shut up about it

Sensitivity - yes it IS whimpy, I've been giving a sh-t about sh-t that I shouldn't be giving a sh-t about, yet she dared to call me in the past INSENSITIVE. Pffft!
Hell I can never win!
Inner thoughts/hopes/dreams all already shared - mostly.

Wait, what you mean inner thoughts?

Meh think I'm just going to harden up again at least to get back in balance, I've gone WAAAY out of balance being too nice and farting too many rainbow butterflies outta my ass this new years. I have to trust from my own experience.

Lest I tempt the demon within her out again.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Sensitivity is not wimpy. Oversensitivity is. Get to learn the difference. 

Also wimpy ... fretting about whether or not you're acting wimpy. Nothing reeks of wimpy quite like insecurity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Trenton said:


> You are wrong in your distrust. A woman who loves you will not leave you because she sees you sharing your feelings. I've no idea what the alpha/beta crap is but I know my husband has been more and more open/honest/sincere/emotional and I've never felt closer to him. Him putting me on a pedestal makes me feel happy, makes me want to spend time with him, makes me want to do things to make him feel as good as he's making me feel.
> 
> If it doesn't work like this and you are forced to hide your love and affection or lose your wife, the love was never truly there to begin with.


=/
Don't you get sick of it?

For me showing love and affection can be selfish at times, like what the missus does jutting into my space! But now I don't know... I just don't understand her, she should be backing off with all this constant lovey doveys, but she's not... yet. I don't know... I'm thinking too much.



FrankKissel said:


> Sensitivity is not wimpy. Oversensitivity is. Get to learn the difference.
> 
> Also wimpy ... fretting about whether or not you're acting wimpy. Nothing reeks of wimpy quite like insecurity.


What the hell is oversensitivity anyways? Actually, what the hell IS sensitivity? I've only been called insensitive so I assume the other two are just the opposite of what I've been doing.

As for fretting about whether or not I'm acting wimpy I'd rather face the difficult questions that others are simply too wimp to even ask.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> farting too many rainbow butterflies outta my ass


now, thats kinda wimpy


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ EXACTLY! :rofl:
With unicorns and tea parties! lol

But you get what I mean bro, that's exactly how I feel when I'm being vulnerable and emotional with my wife. Makes me feel sick.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> But you get what I mean bro, that's exactly how I feel when I'm being vulnerable and emotional with my wife. Makes me feel sick.


i think i sort of felt the same way as you to some degree.
it cost me the only woman i have been in love with.
wish i had been able to change it before now.

if she is happy how you are being, then continue.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/

Great...
I'm f--ked


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> ^ EXACTLY! :rofl:
> With unicorns and tea parties! lol
> 
> But you get what I mean bro, that's exactly how I feel when I'm being vulnerable and emotional with my wife. Makes me feel sick.


Next time you catch yourself getting emotional, rush out to the garage, shotgun a couple beers, change the oil in your car, bench press the nearest heavy object (you car, if necessary) then build a shed.

That ought to even things out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

RD - is it making you happy to see her happy? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why do you feel like you have to be vulnerable and emotional all the time with her?

Hubs and I spend a TON of good times together but he's not all emotional or vulnerable. Maybe 5% of the time.

The rest of the time we're gaming together or chillin together talkin politics haha or other things that interest us.

Can't you just chill with your wife? that's the best part of marriage...to me. Having someone to chill with when the kids go to bed. We have to much fun.. We bought "heavy rain" and we're getting into it. No emotions or vulnerability.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Next time you catch yourself getting emotional, rush out to the garage, shotgun a couple beers, change the oil in your car, bench press the nearest heavy object (you car, if necessary) then build a shed.
> 
> That ought to even things out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:

Hubs and I spend our evenings in the garage. Sometimes I take my laptop while he works on cars, or my sketch pad and we just chill and talk...or we work on cars together...or play our video games. All in the garage. With beer. Good shet.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Why do you feel like you have to be vulnerable and emotional all the time with her?


I don't believe I should even BE vulnerable OR emotional with her. Unless I'm making something up to her where the situation warrants some affection to heal up and make up. Her idea of marriage is a freakin fairytale. We just had a short fight about this at lunch.



> The rest of the time we're gaming together or chillin together talkin politics haha or other things that interest us.


 That's what I prefer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok update... so I decided to bring our little honeymoon to a bit of balance... I'm not hardening myself up again but just pulling both our heads outta the clouds for a while. But seems we had a short little fight in the process at lunch.

I told her that we both need our space, I need my space, she needs her space, then she replies that she doesn't need space with me and wants us to be closer to each other. I replied saying that we ARE close to each other, but we shouldn't be too wrapped around each other and she asked "why not?" (what is she? a kid?!) and I told her that it's because we're still two individuals and we need healthy space by ourselves, and she replied that we're two married individuals and then I told her 'that's the point, we're still individuals', and then she accused me of trying to push her away and asked me what's wrong and I told her nothing is wrong... then she asked me if I"m sick of her already, or that is there something I'm hiding and not telling her.

I told her I'm telling her everything already and that I just feel that we need some distance to function because even though we're married we have to learn to still be functional when apart and then she got p-ssed a bit and asked me what I meant when I used the word "apart" and so I repeated myself saying we just need some time apart so we don't jut into each other's lives and she asked me if that's how I feel about our relationship that we're jutting into each other's lives and then I told her "it's not that" and she told me "that's what you're saying!" and I told her "FFS you're getting me all wrong!"

Then she said "you're getting us all wrong!" and that we shouldn't push each other away for space, and I just facepalmed as we're going in circles and sighed. I told her we're getting nowhere and let's just forget it, but then she calmed down too and asked me what's wrong (again)... and so I just told her that it's just not my style to be like how I have been with her since new years and she looked rather disappointed. Damn that look... meh. 

Oh well, I had to head back to work, she's probably going to start a fight once I get home, joy!


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

told you.
stay on track.
it doesnt make you weak.
how long you 2 been together?


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

It's more than just being "not you". You're not adequately explaining to her what's going on, and as a result hurting her all over again.

If you can't properly explain it yourself, maybe you should print out the "Feeling soft" thread and show it to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm just very VERY confused about what is the right thing to do 

BTW 2ndtimeisbest... you mentioned if you would have changed, can you really guarantee that she would be happy if you do it - in the short term sure, but how about long term? For me I'm confused because this is going against the rules of the game. That's what I'm being confused about!

Trenton... I have too much doubts, paranoia, self-reliance, different experiences, and pride to give my wife this fairytale marriage that she seems to want. Everything in me is resisting it! How did your husband go through it? And I still don't understand how you simply didn't get sick of him being beta...

>.<



> If you can't properly explain it yourself, maybe you should print out the "Feeling soft" thread and show it to her.


=/


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> BTW 2ndtimeisbest... you mentioned if you would have changed, can you really guarantee that she would be happy if you do it - in the short term sure, but how about long term?


i feel very positive that had i, yes she would have been happy forever.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* I'll think about it for a while


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> =/


I should add that ideally you should be honest with her about this in person. Showing the thread is more of a last resort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

> Truthfully, the more men I get to know and meet, the more brilliant he shines.


Ain't that the truth.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'll talk to her about it after dinner, that's if she's cooking dinner - she's silent heh. Meh maybe I'll cook... maybe later, just popped a beer


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well... looks like tonight didn't really go to plan, I cooked dinner, she didn't come. So I just left it there, she didn't come, so I knocked on her door, she didn't open, so I packed it and shoved it in the fridge. Then she came out and went downstairs, so I followed, and she ignored me. I tried to talk to her, but she continued giving me the silence. So I gave up as she warmed up her dinner in the microwave and I just grabbed another 6-pack to transfer to my man-cave-fridge.

Meh, just finished setting up my sofa, think I'm just going to go to bed and forget all this.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

Huh. If you can't talk to her, maybe a printout of that thread is needed after all.

Whatever you do, nip this in the bud quick. The longer it goes, the worse it'll get. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

that_girl said:


> OMG!! YOU THINK WAY TOO MUCH!!
> 
> Just be real and be yourself and be nice but don't be a douche or a whiny baby.
> 
> Why do you have to think everything to death? It just causes problems for yourself.



Hee hee, ya just noticed this!:smthumbup:


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

she was just doing what you wanted, giving her space/ now isnt that better, :/


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Recently my wife and I have been having a rather passionate and romantic time together. I've loosened up a lot and she's quite happy... for now. The thing is, from what I've learnt with women over the years, it is simply not wise to be too romantic or too passionate or too lovey dovey - in other words, too easy. It gives off the impression that one is weak, or putting them on a pedestal, clingy, or beta etc etc.
> 
> Now I'm not allowing myself to become a doormat, in fact I'm waiting for her to pull a b-fit so I can justify hardening up again. But I am allowing myself to be more emotional and vulnerable with her, and to share to her my worries, thoughts, bleh - which is very unmanly in my opinion. Most probably I'm losing her respect subconsciously for sharing even though how blissful she acts now.
> 
> ...


Is your wife a mature and capable woman? 

If she is, no matter how much love you show her, no matter how much you spoil her, she knows her responsibility, she won't spoil herself, she will appreciate your love. 

Do you and your wife want to work together to have a happy marriage and happy relationship? Are you a team? 

When you share your deep thoughts with her, when you are vulnerable in front of her, she is the one to support you, to stand beside you, and to cheer you up. 

A good wife knows when to be strong and when to be weak! When you are weak, she will be strong, she will be your stability; when you are strong, she knows that you are her protector and she can rely on you. 

Your wife is over 30, I think she is old enough to know this. Sometimes I think you are too young to understand women! Don't let your experience with young girls fool you, you are dealing with a woman who had experienced a lot in her life and who is married.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well that is true... sometimes I forget that we're both aging. I guess I shouldn't be seeing her as a young bimbo anymore, not that she was ever a bimbo, I don't know.

I'll wait till she cools down and she's ready to talk.



> Huh. If you can't talk to her, maybe a printout of that thread is needed after all.
> Whatever you do, nip this in the bud quick. The longer it goes, the worse it'll get.


She'll be fine, the STs don't normally last that long before one of us breaks. And I doubt printing out the whole thread will be helpful, if anything she'll just lose respect for me. Yes she's a woman but she's human too.


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

Has she ever once complained about you sharing your thoughts with her? Even 'whining' about work?


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## Noel1987 (Jan 2, 2012)

I really don't think that something craps gonna happen in your relationship... Well things going i would say you have made her big head. Stop reacting like that and give her time It would DEFINITELY make her realize your value....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@unloved

No she hasn't yet, not directly anyways.

@Noel

What do you mean by making her big head? I don't understand =/


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

Then you should have nothing to worry about, I agree with Dymo, she deserves to know, print out the threads for her if you can't be honest face to face.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Erm, actually, if you have read, I've been very honest with her face to face. Please read before commenting.


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

Telling her you need space but not explaining why is not being very honest or straightforward with her. Don't think that your wife is a mind-reader, you have to talk to her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What should I tell her? "Guess what! I am a paranoid mofo who hasn't got over his childhood abandonment or times on the street or times with the women inferior to you and I have married you despite the issues not being completely solved!"

And hell I don't want to hurt her by telling her that the truth is I only married her out of a sense of responsibility for our daughter as she was pregnant. I love her but I simply was never ready for all of this.


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

And what makes you think she was ready either? What makes you think she didn't marry you out of a sense of responsibility for her daughter? She could even have had pressures you have no idea about like her family, her church, her friends


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

What you say to me you can say to me in public thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unloved11 
It's me, and I'm not going to pick up the phone 

FFS you promised me! You are really pushing it this time! Just stop posting alright, I don't think I can stop you reading anymore but just stop posting


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Very funny, very funny... if I was in a better mood I would be impressed, but right now it's obvious you can't be trusted. You really want me to pull away from work just to deal with you? Just pick up the damn phone


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

And what good would that do? You're only honest with the people here, never with me. At least now I can actually talk straight with you


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This is f--king ridiculous you know that? Fine forget it, I'm coming home, do what you want here before I come back, say what you want, embarrass me, hurt me, I don't care.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Unloved11 said:


> And what good would that do? You're only honest with the people here, never with me. At least now I can actually talk straight with you


wifey? :scratchhead:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No, that was just our babysitter with a serious case of PMS


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Trenton said:


> At least she doesn't say meh all the time?
> 
> Hi Random Dude's wife


lol


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi RD's wife! I'm glad you're here! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah sure, let's all welcome her to TAM!

While at the same time I already removed the router in our house and she's lucky she's not home. I should be working at this time too


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Why not? I'm glad she's here and you should be, too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

you should use this opportunity to sit and calmly discuss this issue now that she knows about it.
GET THIS RESOLVED THE RIGHT WAY, NOW!
dont [email protected] it up man.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

did you promise her that you were staying off TAM? Her post suggests it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Why not? I'm glad she's here and you should be, too!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


=/



dymo said:


> did you promise her that you were staying off TAM? Her post suggests it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I've made no such promise. She however has made a promise to me to never look up on this forum and I also have printed out threads to satisfy her curiousity as was our agreement.

This was a while back when I finally admitted to her that I've been on a marriage forum. But now... she has violated our agreement.



2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> you should use this opportunity to sit and calmly discuss this issue now that she knows about it.
> GET THIS RESOLVED THE RIGHT WAY, NOW!
> dont [email protected] it up man.





Trenton said:


> Your disquiet is useless although your accidental vulnerability is telling. You want a stronger connection with her. She loves you. Don't blow it. Fix it


Well right now she can at least come home. She's probably whining about me to her friends or family or some such. Meh


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

RD I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing she came here... She needed to get your attention somehow. I don't understand why you wouldn't want her here, learning with you and discussing things - you never know, using a forum with the help of others could be a good thing!

I wish the best for you both...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You think I can ever be this honest if I know my wife is watching everything? Of course not... Hell I even have random thoughts at times which come and go and she might take those seriously. I was going to discuss this with her last night but she decided to give me ST instead - and she can't deny that! And now today she decided to embarrass me and give me a shock just for the hell of it it seems.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I disagree! I think it shows she cares a great deal about you, and you seem fearful that being open and vulnerable is going to hurt you somehow.

Really think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Caring a great deal enough to tell everyone that it sux being my wife and that a real man is anything but me, yeah, she does care SO MUCH about me indeed.

Meh nevermind me


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I didn't get that from her posts at all, really. I got that she wants to know who you are, deep inside, and that she wants to feel accepted by you, in entirety. I'm not even going to get into all you've said about her - which at times has been questionable. You do need to keep the lines of communication open and not withhold things - for fear of this or fear of that. Stop being afraid! You have someone in your life who just wants to love and be loved!

I wish my husband would come here and post - show interest, etc. Even if he didn't paint the most flattering picture of me, it would show me what is really on his mind, and how he really feels. I think he, like perhaps you, hold a lot in for various reasons, and we women can sense that! Whether or not we all think what isn't revealed must be awful is another story... (I'm dramatic I guess).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks YinPrincess, I hope that is the case, I don't know. As for what I've said about her, well she's probably reading ALL of it right now, yay, great, torturing herself with this. I never wanted this.

Hell I'm already shaken up with the fact that she read my comment "because there's something I'd rather do then stick around after the chore!" and replied. She wasn't meant to read that. This is just a disaster.

Some problems and thoughts are just mine to have, I don't want her to share the same pain I have, or my disappointments or my annoyances. I know it hurts that's also why I don't want her here. Right now I just want her to pick up the phone and/or come home.

Meh
Now I feel I have big brother watching my posts as well, but I guess at this point of time I no longer really care, she's going to read it all anyway, what worse can happen?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

She can handle what she reads, you have to be able to trust that in her. It's going to take time, but I still don't think this is a bad thing.

Want to know a secret? I found some notes my husband had written long ago about me, stuffed in one of his books - one I decided to read. His comments hurt and I felt defensive, I felt like he really didn't understand me, and that he must have thought I was a terrible person. I wanted badly to confront him, but I never did. I tried to see his point of view to improve myself, and the energy I was exuding. In the end I got over it, and I'm now more aware of how I may come off to people. That's a good thing!

You've written much about your wife, and a lot of that, too, is all the kind things you've said about her and the feelings you have for her. If she reads those things she will likely cherish your openness and remember them for a long time to come.

This isn't the end - it's a beginning, and I hope the both of you take full advantage of it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sure, if she doesn't break my neck first =/

I do hope she reads the nicer comments, but she'll probably only take in the bad ones. Meh
As sensitive and vulnerable as she is right now I doubt she'll get over my comments anytime soon. Right now though I'm just curious where she is, I'm tempted to start a calling spree but I hate to get everyone involved again. Her phone is off too. If this is her little game to make me worried then it's working.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I doubt it's a game, she's probably just trying to digest things. If it is a game, well then you got the "space" you needed. I hope it's not that way. 
It's going to take time, stuff like this doesn't just build up, become exposed and processed in one day. The key is when she does finally decide to talk to you, to really listen. And for her to know that you really want what is best for her.

Keep us updated - I hope she calls soon and you guys are able to start the healing process for both of you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Some problems and thoughts are just mine to have, I don't want her to share the same pain I have, or my disappointments or my annoyances.


You don't want it. But what if she does? 

What if after reading all the crap you've posted, she still wants all your pain, disappointments and annoyances? Would you be prepared to do it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not like I even have a choice do I? How can I say no as now she's already sharing it?


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## AquarianPhoenix (Dec 19, 2011)

To be honest, my fiance loves when I open up. And I do it quite often. My mother passed away in 4/16/11 and since then, I know I haven't been quite the same. She adopted me from an abusive home when I was 11 and I've always been an emotional wreck, so to speak. By opening up to this girl, she gets to see a deeper part of who I am and who I hide from the world.

But I'm very dominate when I need to be. Yeah, behind closed doors I let see my soft side, but in public, I don't let anyone push me around and I get what I want. Wether it's a cashier trying to pull a fast one and jack the price up to pocket the extra money (it has happened before) or a manager lying to me about something I know for a fact, I stand my ground.

If that's what you do, then I don't see why there should be any problems. At home she gets the you that no one else does, and out in the world you reassure her that you're not just a sissy. Out there, show her that even though you open up to her, you can still handle yourself and you can still take care of her.

And I want to add that the Alpha/Beta crap is just that, CRAP. There's no place for that in relationships. There's EQUAL. Give her what she needs, she wants to know that you trust her and that you can be vulnerable with her. And she wants to know that she can do the same with you. All the while, being EQUAL. But like I said, take the lead when she needs you to but knock it off with the Alpha/Beta garbage. And if you're THAT worried about looking like a "sissy" then just keep it between the two of you; no one else needs to know.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

AquarianPhoenix said:


> To be honest, my fiance loves when I open up. And I do it quite often. My mother passed away in 4/16/11 and since then, I know I haven't been quite the same. She adopted me from an abusive home when I was 11 and I've always been an emotional wreck, so to speak. By opening up to this girl, she gets to see a deeper part of who I am and who I hide from the world.
> 
> But I'm very dominate when I need to be. Yeah, behind closed doors I let see my soft side, but in public, I don't let anyone push me around and I get what I want. Wether it's a cashier trying to pull a fast one and jack the price up to pocket the extra money (it has happened before) or a manager lying to me about something I know for a fact, I stand my ground.
> 
> ...


I agree with the bolded. As your wife, she should get more from you than just what you share with the outside world. She's not just a friend, aquaintance or coworker. She's your wife.

I consider Alpha being confident and making your wife feel safe with you. Being cold or distant does not = Alpha. Putting up a brick wall is not making your wife feel safe and secure. I don't see how that's Alpha or Beta.


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## AquarianPhoenix (Dec 19, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> I consider Alpha being confident and making your wife feel safe with you. Being cold or distant does not = Alpha. Putting up a brick wall is not making your wife feel safe and secure. I don't see how that's Alpha or Beta.


Making her feel safe is part of your duty as a husband. Being confident enough in yourself to actually do that is what matters. The terms "Alpha" and "Beta" are simply too territorial, if you will.

What most people see as Alpha is a man who makes all of the decisions and a man who doesn't show emotions and who works on cars all day and drinks beer.

The successful relationships I've seen have not been that at all. It's been on equal grounds, as I stated all that previously.

As for me, when I bought my car, I looked at what it was like inside, how it felt while I drove it and how reliable it would be in the long run. I bought a 2005 VW Beetle. And it's yellow. Does that make me any less of a man? No. But when someone sees me driving it, they're automatically going to think "beta" or "gay" when in reality, those terms shouldn't apply at all.

And those words are what keep people like RD and his wife from being ONE. Yes, they are individuals but when they got married, they should have become ONE. ONE family that is equal. This isn't the 1920's anymore.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

YinPrincess said:


> RD I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing she came here... She needed to get your attention somehow. I don't understand why you wouldn't want her here, learning with you and discussing things - you never know, using a forum with the help of others could be a good thing!
> 
> I wish the best for you both...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with the part about needing to get your attention. I welcome your wife here, as she and I have very similar experiences in our respective marriages. I sometimes feel the need to get my husband's attention as well... like when we have gone 2 months without sex and cuddling or even hello and goodbye kisses and he thinks things are perfect! He considers me bringing up that he has forgotten what is important to me (while I am giving him what he wants for the whole 2 months) a "meltdown" bc its my mouth moving and expressing words he doesnt want to hear.... that is how he defines meltdown. Then he denies that I ever gave him what he wanted bc he is being "accused" of not giving what I want... its so confusing it can make your head spin. But, alas, I forgive and move on to the fleeting good times until he decides to mess up the good we create for a few days or weeks.


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

Welcome Randoms wife, now we should get the truth of this matter! Meh, love hearing both sides..


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

And Random, I think truly you are just too young to have a grown up relationship. I think what is holding you back is your insistance on hanging on to your past. I had a HORRIBLE past, I dealt with it, and decided I would be the master of my future, I didnt have to let those past things dictate my behaviour. You can hold on to the past, and all it is is a crutch and an excuse to not get past it AND CHANGE IT. Random, grow up, realize love includes vulnerability. Man up already, showing love and vunerability is a manly thing, not a wimpy thing, it is tiring to hear you say so much of the same thing, but never try to just get past your past.........and I would love to hear your wifes side of the story,and her demands, on you, that you seem to think unreasonable,.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She's home now but refuses to talk to me, her idea of punishment I guess.

@AquarianPhoenix

She already knows about what I went through and what I go through (sometimes) but I never wanted her to go through my own issues together with me. The idea of relying on my wife to deal with my own problems just makes me sick.

I do agree that yes, all this Alpha/Beta stuff can't be taken too seriously. That there is healthy "beta", but even though I believe that, practising it... that is difficult. In truth I admire people who don't have my problems, who aren't cold, who are open and trusting and loving. When I met my wife we were both "alpha", over time she became more "beta" and I began to admire her in a different way yet despise it because my mentality considers such vulnerability weak and dependent.

When she asks the same of me it's just difficult. 

@Toolate

Well, she has most definitely got my attention.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i think our stories kind of mirror each other.
the only difference?
your girl is still there for you to fix things with.
it really isnt that much to give.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well she's not exactly very communicative right now with the ST.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

If my husband joined and chose a username like "Unloved" ...there's no way in heck I'd still be posting and/or even caring whether I felt embarrassed on a forum. 

Go get your sh!t sorted.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Well she's not exactly very communicative right now with the ST.


i think you BOTH need to calm down a bit then talk, like REALLY talk.
then you decide if you want to give her what she needs to feel close to you.
and if you have problems with her, she needs to decide the same thing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well she's not opening the door and it seems like she's using her old little tactic of getting as many people on her side as possible before talking to me so that she gets what she wants. She's like that.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

This could be your opportunity to wise up. It's there for the taking but first you kinda need to get over yourself, log off here, and REALLY start communicating with her. If you're concerned about if people are going to side with her or not, your priorities are well and truly messed up.

Time for the Drama to be dropped...and the King to step forward.

^ gosh that was cheesy.


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

You're never this honest with me until now, if I open the door I know you are only going to tell me what I want to hear.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

FFS woman THINK! How can I do that now? You already know everything FFS! I have nothing left to hide, think about it. You are embarrassing both of us with this little game you're playing.

I'm ready to talk, no more hiding, it's up to you whether you want to solve this or not.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

What does FFS mean? LoL 

Unloved - when you feel ready, do give him an opportunity to open up. You'll know whether or not he's being honest with you. You're both hurting and suffering. It's time you got back to those good feelings you know you're capable of with each other... Keeping you both in my thoughts...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

YinPrincess said:


> What does FFS mean? LoL


It took me a while too lol ..."for fcuk's sake"

< exiting, stage left.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Ah! Learn something new everyday! LoL! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you everyone, he is being honest with me now. He's still stuck up over me being here though.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'll get over it


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## AquarianPhoenix (Dec 19, 2011)

We have progress!

I'm excited that you two are talking now, but is this happening in person? Face to face is what builds connections, not computer screens. I hope you guys can work it out =\ I hate to see marriages fall apart..

And FFS...don't argue over grilled cheese sandwiches. Personal experience. It was a long, hard day and something stupid like that just set me off for about 30 minutes. Just remember, no matter how mad you get at each other, the little things (not just GCS) need to be let go. That includes what you guys are working out now. I it seems unimportant then it probably is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

A little vulnerability is a good thing. A woman wants a man who is an alpha but who also trusts her enough to give her a little of his heart, too. Letting her see your vulnerable side lets her know you trust her and love her. It's not going to make you a beta unless you're really acting like a doormat. You don't seem like a doormat at all, dude.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> I consider Alpha being confident and making your wife feel safe with you. Being cold or distant does not = Alpha. Putting up a brick wall is not making your wife feel safe and secure. I don't see how that's Alpha or Beta.


:iagree:


Also, whoever posted about arguments regarding grilled cheese sandwiches, I also agree with that. I thought I was alone in that kind of argument. My WH yelled at me for like 2 hours once because there was too much cheese in the sandwich I made him. Ugh. Don't fight about that. Or about the proper size for breakfast plates. Neither is a worthwhile fight.


Random Dude. Don't be upset that she's violated your safe space. She just wants connection. Let her in. Let her see it all. Hopefully, she will handle it well and you guys will have a stronger relationship as a result. You're over-reacting to her presence here. It's not a bad thing.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Caring a great deal enough to tell everyone that it sux being my wife and that a real man is anything but me, yeah, she does care SO MUCH about me indeed.
> 
> Meh nevermind me


RD.

Your wife did not communicate any such thing. Man you too have a serious problem if that’s the way your thinking goes.


You both sound seriously deluded and somewhat paranoid. And it’s hardly surprising at all considering the way you behave.

Do you both smoke cannabis. It can cause paranoid schizophrenia if started young and/or there is a genetic susceptibility.



Some here are telling you to be honest with one another with your inner most thoughts and feelings, no matter how crazy they may seem to you and may make you feel crazy.

Believe me it’s the only healthy way ahead else your marriage will implode on itself. You HAVE to be vulnerable and you HAVE to trust otherwise you have nothing worthwhile in your marriage.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Actually, she did, read her first few posts. Heat of the moment I guess, but nevermind that.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

No worse than anything you've said? Just to be fair...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes that's why I'm saying nevermind that. Meh


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

RD, if you were referring to your wife's comment in the What makes a REAL man thread, then you need to go back and reread her comment.

She specifically said a REAL man IS anything like you not anything BUT you. You took a compliment and turned it around.


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## AquarianPhoenix (Dec 19, 2011)

If you say "meh" one more time...I swear to all that is holy...

I sure hope you don't talk like that IRL. It's very obnoxious. But anyways, how are things going now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

LoL! Meh! I kinda like it! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We're not having silence, but she's right, I'm still pissed that she violated the boundary. I don't know what else is safe to say, lest she gets me to kiss her ass once more, pffft.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> kiss her ass


nothing wrong with that. add a little tongue action while youre at it


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> We're not having silence, but she's right, I'm still pissed that she violated the boundary. I don't know what else is safe to say, lest she gets me to kiss her ass once more, pffft.


Just stop it.


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

GROW up, you have a wife who loves you a daughter you cherish, quit thinking so dang much, enjoy your life, screw your wife ti;ll the cows come home and thank God he gave you someone who has the incredible patience to deal with you. God bless her daily.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> We're not having silence, but she's right, I'm still pissed that she violated the boundary. I don't know what else is safe to say, lest she gets me to kiss her ass once more, pffft.


Dude, your wife didn't have to "break boundaries" until your self-destructive insecurities made you decide that having some sort of monumental BS talk about needing space was a good idea. You over-analyzed yourself and therefore your relationship when things were seemingly at their best and you dropped the "we need space" concept on a woman who wanted anything but space. 

Dude people use the "we need space" line when they start preparing a break-up speech. So WTF do you expect from her? She probably thought you were leading up to divorce and decided breaking your boundaries to figure out what the hell was going on with you was necessary to saving your relationship.

Stop being childish... you brought this heap of sh!t upon yourself and her for no reason and now you're diverting blame and offloading ownership with excuses. What a train wreck... you BETTER be kissing her ass for as long as she needs you to.

Good God!!!


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