# My husband is a habitual liar but gets mad when I don't trust him



## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

My husband lies _all the time_. I literally can not trust anything he says even if it's trivial or easily checked.

It's not even the content of the lies that bothers me. Not at all. I don't give two flying farts about most of the things he would have hypothetically been telling me. And on the occasion that he "messes up" it's never THAT big of a deal. He doesn't cheat on me or gamble or anything. It's little stupid stuff that could be remedied easily.

One example:
We had guests coming over. The bathroom in the hallway is generally "his" bathroom, but when we have company obviously that is the one they use. For whatever reason, he refuses to put the toilet paper on the roll. He leaves it on the sink, floor, or the edge of the tub. And empty tubes collect wherever they lie. Whatever. I don't use that bathroom so I don't care. But when we have company I remind him to tidy his bathroom up which includes putting fresh TP (not one that is covered in dust and dirt from the floor) on the roll. At some point during my own cleaning I may ask, "Did you tidy up your bathroom?" to which he'll always reply, "Yeah." But half the time I'll go in there and the toilet paper will still be sitting on the edge of the tub or wherever. It's such a minor thing... why not just say, "Not yet" or "Oh, I forgot" instead of lie?

Another example:
The sink in the master bathroom is apparently clogged and the water was draining slowly. He told me he "plunged the sink". I asked, "What do you mean?" He knows I think it's disgusting to put a toilet plunger in the sink, and when the sink backed up I mentioned getting a small plunger just for the task that would be dedicated to the sink so we wouldn't have to put anything near our toothbrushes that had been submerged in poop. So he quickly backpeddled and said, "I just used my hand." Mind you, there was a film left in the sink when the water backed up and there is a perfect circle around the drain the exact shape and size of the plunger. When I asked him about the perfectly symmetrical ring, he insisted it was just from his hand. I don't know whether to be more upset about the blatant insult to my intelligence or the blatant lie. And if he's lying because he knows I don't like it, I feel like the _least _you could do if you were going to use the poop plunger in the sink is disinfect and wash out the sink afterward (honestly the sink needed to be washed out anyway after it backed up regardless).

In both cases, I asked him plainly, "Why did you lie?" His reaction is always to get so defensive and angry and to start deflecting and trying to shift blame, change the subject, etc. Every time something like this happens I tell him, I don't care. Just be honest. Respect and honesty is SO important to me and something as trivial as forgetting to replace the toilet paper just isn't. I'd rather throw away my toothbrush than feel like my husband doesn't respect me enough to be honest with me.

I know part of it if not all of it is cowardice/avoidance. Like he's scared to "get in trouble" so he tells me what he thinks I want to hear instead of the truth.  But that's so childish. And it doesn't even make sense in the face of hard facts or when the answer is easily verifiable. And I'm not the type to "blow up" over little things. If I don't like something (like poop near my toothbrush) I'll just tell him I don't like it. I don't yell or fuss and I always explain in a rational way why I don't like it and offer ways around it (small sink plungers are only a couple dollars I had already told him I planned to buy one all he had to do was wait). But he insists on lying and then when I catch him in the lie he blames me for it and gets mad when I tell him I don't believe him.

And on the who-knows-how-rare occasion that he tells the truth, if I'm suspicious (because I'm at the point where I can't trust him because I catch him in lies at least 3 times a week) and question him, he _gets mad at me_. He will actually yell at me for questioning him if something he says doesn't add up or if I don't understand... as if I have no right not to trust him.

I don't know what to do at this point. My trust in him is at about 25%. I don't believe he would cheat on me or steal from me or anything like that. But at this point I know that I can never trust a word that comes out of his mouth. And I was raised to believe that your word is everything. Your reputation is who you are and trustworthiness/dependability is a big deal. But he WON'T STOP LYING.

*TL;DR* My husband lies compulsively and persistently about even trivial things. I catch him in lies multiple times a week but if I question him when he claims to be telling the truth he gets mad at me for not trusting him.

Is there any hope for us? I can't seem to get down to the true root cause of his lying and he isn't making any effort to work with me towards resolving the issue. Lack of trust is a _major _issue in a relationship for me. Any suggestions?


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Did he get in trouble a lot as a child and just started to lie to avoid getting in trouble?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Weirdly, this is not all that unusual. I see cases from time to time. 

Does he also have problems with this in the workplace?


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

xMadame said:


> Did he get in trouble a lot as a child and just started to lie to avoid getting in trouble?


I'm not sure. I didn't grow up with him so I can't speak from experience. All I know is that he is an experienced (if not very good) and manipulative liar.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Laurentium said:


> Weirdly, this is not all that unusual. I see cases from time to time.
> 
> Does he also have problems with this in the workplace?


In almost every way, he is a totally different person at work (and with his friends) than he is at home. Fastidious, diligent, courteous... I have no idea if he's lying to his coworkers/boss but he has not ever been in trouble for it as far as I know.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

From the incidents you describe and the tone of your posts, it sounds like you two may have fallen into a pretty unhealthy parent/child dynamic in your marriage. Your husband behaves like an irresponsible child, you try to control his behavior by questioning or correcting him, he rebels with more irresponsible and immature behavior, you respond to that with increased attempts at control through more correction or questioning. He doesn't do things the way he knows you want them done and lies to avoid 'getting in trouble', you grill him like he's an errant teen who's slacking on his chores because that's how you perceive his behavior. Eventually, what you effectively have is a rebellious teen and an exasperated parent. It's a really unhealthy dynamic, that both of you are participating in and helping to create, that is pretty much guaranteed to kill all the romantic love and sexual attraction in your marriage. 

The only one you can control is yourself, OP. Stop mothering him. He's a grown-ass man. He can do his own chores around the house in any way he sees fit. If his bathroom is gross, that's on him. Tell guests they can use either his bathroom or yours. But don't apologize for the state of his. That's his responsibility. If your sink is backed up, go buy a sink plunger or a bottle of Drano and handle it yourself. If he doesn't do whatever you've asked him to in the way you prefer, don't grill him about why. Either ignore it or do it yourself from then on. Basically, stop trying to force him to be the man you want him to be. He will either rise to the occasion by becoming less resentful and more apt to be that man, or you will eventually realize you don't like who he actually is and get divorced. 

The truth is that you cannot control him, you cannot change him, and you cannot fix him. You can stop trying to make him do things your way, and you can stop questioning him in ways that you know make him feel and behave like a petulant 14 year old. You can let go of trying to control him. Only he can decide to stop the conflict-avoidant lying. He either will or he won't, at which point you can decide if you're willing and able to put up with that behavior long-term.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I once had a husband that lied. A lot. About everything from "Did you pay the electric bill?" to "Did you change the baby's diaper?". If the man said the sky was blue, I'd have to look out the window to verify. Then I divorced him and married someone who is honest. It's glorious to have trust.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It sounds like you’re a controlling, overbearing, poo-stirrer. And rather than start a fight with you, which you may really like, he subconsciously decides it’s not worth it to tell the truth. 

I’m just guessing here based on the INCREDIBLE memory for tiny little misdeeds he’s done, and the fact that you say he’s totally different with everyone else, everywhere else.

99% chance you have trained your husband to be this way with you and don’t even realize it.

I know this is kinda harsh, and I may be totally wrong. But it’s something to think about.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

:iagree: Hit the nail on the head! (What Rowan said)


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Rowan said:


> From the incidents you describe and the tone of your posts, it sounds like you two may have fallen into a pretty unhealthy parent/child dynamic in your marriage. Your husband behaves like an irresponsible child, you try to control his behavior by questioning or correcting him, he rebels with more irresponsible and immature behavior, you respond to that with increased attempts at control through more correction or questioning. He doesn't do things the way he knows you want them done and lies to avoid 'getting in trouble', you grill him like he's an errant teen who's slacking on his chores because that's how you perceive his behavior. Eventually, what you effectively have is a rebellious teen and an exasperated parent. It's a really unhealthy dynamic, that both of you are participating in and helping to create, that is pretty much guaranteed to kill all the romantic love and sexual attraction in your marriage.
> 
> The only one you can control is yourself, OP. Stop mothering him. He's a grown-ass man. He can do his own chores around the house in any way he sees fit. If his bathroom is gross, that's on him. Tell guests they can use either his bathroom or yours. But don't apologize for the state of his. That's his responsibility. If your sink is backed up, go buy a sink plunger or a bottle of Drano and handle it yourself. If he doesn't do whatever you've asked him to in the way you prefer, don't grill him about why. Either ignore it or do it yourself from then on. Basically, stop trying to force him to be the man you want him to be. He will either rise to the occasion by becoming less resentful and more apt to be that man, or you will eventually realize you don't like who he actually is and get divorced.
> 
> The truth is that you cannot control him, you cannot change him, and you cannot fix him. You can stop trying to make him do things your way, and you can stop questioning him in ways that you know make him feel and behave like a petulant 14 year old. You can let go of trying to control him. Only he can decide to stop the conflict-avoidant lying. He either will or he won't, at which point you can decide if you're willing and able to put up with that behavior long-term.


You've unfortunately described our relationship pretty well. I *hated *it. It ended up that way because he grew up not having to do anything (his grandmother who raised him didn't work and did everything for him) so it took a while for him to get the hang of actually participating in housework. I was EXHAUSTED having to work full-time and be a full-time housewife and it caused a lot of arguments, and I ended up constantly bugging him to do his part.

We've discussed it and I actually have done my part. For example, I do my "chores" and he is solely responsible for doing his. I stopped doing his laundry or anything else for him because it would inevitably lead to issues where he wasn't "doing his part" (I'm not washing clothes if they're on the floor rather than in the hamper, etc). That part works great. The issue is NOT the chores. They get done... or don't, but usually do eventually. The issue is the LIES.

The issues come up in times like example #1 because cleaning the bathrooms is one of his responsibilities. Considering the vast majority of our company is female, there needs to be toilet paper and sometimes men forget that. I don't feel like checking on that should be that big of a deal. I'm not yelling, fussing, or complaining...or "grilling". Just asking him if he remember to put toilet paper on the roll.

And let me clarify, I don't actually have my own bathroom. He has his, and there's the master that he also uses. I don't have my own that I can keep "my way" it just happens that the master is the only one I use so I keep the toilet paper on the roll etc. But when the sink backed up that night I told him I intended to buy a sink plunger and drano the next day. By the time I got home from work that evening he had already stuck the toilet plunger in the sink. Short of banning him from the master bathroom, I don't really know how that would have been prevented. He was determined to do whatever he wanted regardless how I felt about it.

And I'm not particularly anal, by the way. I don't care HOW he does what he's supposed to do as long as he DOES it. And honestly I don't even care if his stuff even gets done most of the time as long as we aren't living in filth and I prefer not to have company over with his socks and underwear in the middle of the living room floor which he does pick up when people are coming over. Otherwise I'm a "whatever" kind of person. I don't micromanage. I can honestly say this is not a case of me being overly controlling. I don't tell him what to do or when. He is the one that decided what his chores are. He decides when to do them. He decides how to do them. I don't nag him or boss him around. Just to reiterate...my issue is NOT WITH THE CHORES. I take issue with him LYING TO ME.

I hear what you're saying, Rowan, but it seems a little over simplified. It's not always a case of just "letting it go". I don't feel like asking simple questions like, "Did you remember to change the air filter?" qualifies as "grilling"... but that's exactly the kind of things he would lie about. All he would have to say is "no" and I would just change it myself (we both do it, it's not a "him" chore) but he'd rather lie for no good reason and risk our a/c unit shutting down in the middle of summer costing us hundreds of dollars and potentially putting us and our pets in a hazardous situation. But if he says he changed it, and I check it anyway, he'll get mad at me for not taking him at his word... even if, when I check it, it obviously _wasn't_ changed and he had lied.

Here's the thing... He lies about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. He will lie in general conversation just talking to me...not in response to a question asked, he will "proactively" tell me a lie to "throw me off the scent" of something he thinks I won't like. Like he told me that his buddy bought him lunch, when he didn't. I'm the one that keeps the budget and pays bills, so I see every charge. Eventually I'll see the truth. And we're not broke, what difference does $10 or $15 make at lunch? Why lie about that? When I asked, he said, "I know I'm supposed to be eating better." Which was a goal _he _made for _himself_. 

That was Friday. The toilet paper was Monday. The plunger incident was LAST NIGHT. Chores are something we do the same thing literally every day/week/month. I don't know if that's considered "incredible memory" to you, Evinrude58, but in my opinion being constantly lied to 3-5 times a week does not equate to "tiny little misdeeds". I can't remember every little thing he's done. I don't remember what happened last weekend. But I remember the feeling of having my trust broken CONSTANTLY and feeling disrespected and insulted by the one person I love and respect the most.

At this point we've pretty much worked out the housework situation. I should mention our relationship has improved drastically. I'd be perfectly ok if I have to go around replacing empty toilet paper rolls for the rest of my life. I don't care. What I can't abide is the lies. I love him and truly enjoy being married to him but I just can't stand not being able to trust anything he says to me and I hate feeling like I have to go behind and double check everything he tells me.

Or is this not something I can help? Is it just up to him to decide that he is tired of lying and being second guessed all the time?


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Rowan said:


> From the incidents you describe and the tone of your posts, it sounds like you two may have fallen into a pretty unhealthy parent/child dynamic in your marriage. Your husband behaves like an irresponsible child, you try to control his behavior by questioning or correcting him, he rebels with more irresponsible and immature behavior, you respond to that with increased attempts at control through more correction or questioning. He doesn't do things the way he knows you want them done and lies to avoid 'getting in trouble', you grill him like he's an errant teen who's slacking on his chores because that's how you perceive his behavior. Eventually, what you effectively have is a rebellious teen and an exasperated parent. It's a really unhealthy dynamic, that both of you are participating in and helping to create, that is pretty much guaranteed to kill all the romantic love and sexual attraction in your marriage.
> 
> The only one you can control is yourself, OP. Stop mothering him. He's a grown-ass man. He can do his own chores around the house in any way he sees fit. If his bathroom is gross, that's on him. Tell guests they can use either his bathroom or yours. But don't apologize for the state of his. That's his responsibility. If your sink is backed up, go buy a sink plunger or a bottle of Drano and handle it yourself. If he doesn't do whatever you've asked him to in the way you prefer, don't grill him about why. Either ignore it or do it yourself from then on. Basically, stop trying to force him to be the man you want him to be. He will either rise to the occasion by becoming less resentful and more apt to be that man, or you will eventually realize you don't like who he actually is and get divorced.
> 
> The truth is that you cannot control him, you cannot change him, and you cannot fix him. You can stop trying to make him do things your way, and you can stop questioning him in ways that you know make him feel and behave like a petulant 14 year old. You can let go of trying to control him. Only he can decide to stop the conflict-avoidant lying. He either will or he won't, at which point you can decide if you're willing and able to put up with that behavior long-term.


You've unfortunately described our relationship pretty well. I *hated *it. It ended up that way because he grew up not having to do anything (his grandmother who raised him didn't work and did everything for him) so it took a while for him to get the hang of actually participating in housework. I was EXHAUSTED having to work full-time and be a full-time housewife and it caused a lot of arguments, and I ended up constantly bugging him to do his part.

We've discussed it and I actually have done my part. For example, I do my "chores" and he is solely responsible for doing his. I stopped doing his laundry or anything else for him because it would inevitably lead to issues where he wasn't "doing his part" (I'm not washing clothes if they're on the floor rather than in the hamper, etc). That part works great. The issue is NOT the chores. They get done... or don't, but usually do eventually. The issue is the LIES.

The issues come up in times like example #1 because cleaning the bathrooms is one of his responsibilities. Considering the vast majority of our company is female, there needs to be toilet paper and sometimes men forget that. I don't feel like checking on that should be that big of a deal. I'm not yelling, fussing, or complaining...or "grilling". Just asking him if he remember to put toilet paper on the roll.

And let me clarify, I don't actually have my own bathroom. He has his, and there's the master that he also uses. I don't have my own that I can keep "my way" it just happens that the master is the only one I use so I keep the toilet paper on the roll etc. But when the sink backed up that night I told him I intended to buy a sink plunger and drano the next day. By the time I got home from work that evening he had already stuck the toilet plunger in the sink. Short of banning him from the master bathroom, I don't really know how that would have been prevented. He was determined to do whatever he wanted regardless how I felt about it.

And I'm not particularly anal, by the way. I don't care HOW he does what he's supposed to do as long as he DOES it. And honestly I don't even care if his stuff even gets done most of the time as long as we aren't living in filth and I prefer not to have company over with his socks and underwear in the middle of the living room floor which he does pick up when people are coming over. Otherwise I'm a "whatever" kind of person. I don't micromanage. I can honestly say this is not a case of me being overly controlling. I don't tell him what to do or when. He is the one that decided what his chores are. He decides when to do them. He decides how to do them. I don't nag him or boss him around. Just to reiterate...my issue is NOT WITH THE CHORES. I take issue with him LYING TO ME.

I hear what you're saying, Rowan, but it seems a little over simplified. It's not always a case of just "letting it go". I don't feel like asking simple questions like, "Did you remember to change the air filter?" qualifies as "grilling"... but that's exactly the kind of things he would lie about. All he would have to say is "no" and I would just change it myself (we both do it, it's not a "him" chore) but he'd rather lie for no good reason and risk our a/c unit shutting down in the middle of summer costing us hundreds of dollars and potentially putting us and our pets in a hazardous situation. But if he says he changed it, and I check it anyway, he'll get mad at me for not taking him at his word... even if, when I check it, it obviously _wasn't_ changed and he had lied.

Here's the thing... He lies about ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. He will lie in general conversation just talking to me...not in response to a question asked, he will "proactively" tell me a lie to "throw me off the scent" of something he thinks I won't like. Like he told me that his buddy bought him lunch, when he didn't. I'm the one that keeps the budget and pays bills, so I see every charge. Eventually I'll see the truth. And we're not broke, what difference does $10 or $15 make at lunch? Why lie about that? When I asked, he said, "I know I'm supposed to be eating better." Which was a goal _he _made for _himself_. 

That was Friday. The toilet paper was Monday. The plunger incident was LAST NIGHT. Chores are something we do the same thing literally every day/week/month. I don't know if that's considered "incredible memory" to you, Evinrude58, but in my opinion being constantly lied to 3-5 times a week does not equate to "tiny little misdeeds". I can't remember every little thing he's done. I don't remember what happened last weekend. But I remember the feeling of having my trust broken CONSTANTLY and feeling disrespected and insulted by the one person I love and respect the most.

At this point we've pretty much worked out the housework situation. I should mention our relationship has improved drastically. I'd be perfectly ok if I have to go around replacing empty toilet paper rolls for the rest of my life. I don't care. What I can't abide is the lies. I love him and truly enjoy being married to him but I just can't stand not being able to trust anything he says to me and I hate feeling like I have to go behind and double check everything he tells me.

Or is this not something I can help? Is it just up to him to decide that he is tired of lying and being second guessed all the time?


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Sorry about the duplicate... I was trying to post to add that I believe I can trust him on any and every MAJOR issue. Just not in every day conversation no matter how meaningless or unrelated to anything.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

purgur13 said:


> One example:
> We had guests coming over. The bathroom in the hallway is generally "his" bathroom, but when we have company obviously that is the one they use. For whatever reason, he refuses to put the toilet paper on the roll. He leaves it on the sink, floor, or the edge of the tub. And empty tubes collect wherever they lie. Whatever. I don't use that bathroom so I don't care. But when we have company I remind him to tidy his bathroom up which includes putting fresh TP (not one that is covered in dust and dirt from the floor) on the roll. At some point during my own cleaning I may ask, "Did you tidy up your bathroom?" to which he'll always reply, "Yeah." But half the time I'll go in there and the toilet paper will still be sitting on the edge of the tub or wherever. It's such a minor thing... why not just say, "Not yet" or "Oh, I forgot" instead of lie?
> 
> *It's "his" bathroom, why do you get to decide where he should put his toilet paper? Who cares if they pile up? If it's whatever and you don't care, why do you harp on it? He has no issues with the state of his bathroom, you do. If you think it's too messy for guests, send them up to your bathroom. If that's a problem, you clean the bathroom yourself. If that's a problem, tell him you'd rather not have guests over because you don't want them using your bathroom and his is too messy. If that's a problem then have the guests use his dirty bathroom and let him experience the repercussions like having to get them toilet paper because he forgot to put it in there.
> ...


Yes absolutely there is hope for you if you can recognize that the source of the problem is you imposing the high expectations you have for yourself, onto your husband. Please understand that I am commenting as someone who also has high standards for cleanliness that resulted in major problems in the beginning of my relationship. If you click on my profile, you will see my year old thread complaining about this very issue between my partner and I. 

The thing is we develop patterns of behavior through our childhood experiences that develop into ingrained views of the world around us. Because they were honed during childhood, we weren't exposed to alternative ways of doing things/thinking so as adults we have a hard time seeing things differently or even questioning the motive behind our own behavior. These patterns of behavior are called schemas, there are 18 of them. People like you and me struggle with one of the most stress inducing schemas called "Unrelenting Standards":

"(17) Unrelenting Standards/Hyper-criticalness:

This is an EMS (early maladaptive schema) characterized by a deep belief that you must meet incredibly high standards (performance/behavior) in order to avoid criticism. You may experience feelings of pressure, notice difficulty slowing down, and hyper-criticalness /unrealistically high standards of yourself and others. This schema may present itself outwardly as perfectionism, excessive attention to detail, rigidity toward behavioral, moral, or ethical rules/standards, or a preoccupation with time and efficiency (in hopes of getting more accomplished). It is the schema that generates the most stress. Cortisol, the stress hormone, will be continuously running through the person’s system causing difficulty with relaxation and feelings of restlessness, agitation and frustration. It’s often difficult being around people with this schema as they can be quite critical, judgmental, and easily irritated."

How did I resolve the problem with my partner? 1)I recognized that my way of doing things is not the only way and my partner is not obligated to do things my way because there is NO RIGHT WAY. 2) I admitted to myself that my standards for cleanliness were exactly that, my personal standards, and if I didn't like the way he did things then I could shut my ungrateful behind and do it myself. 3) There are more important things in life than stressing about household items that are out place. I'd rather my partner's love bucket be filled with memories of fun-filled times and loving experiences with me than memories of me complaining about him not cleaning our bathroom on time. 4)I accepted that loving someone involves learning to live with their faults rather than trying to change them into who I wanted them to be. 5)I have a deep desire to support by partner on his journey to becoming an emotionally resilient, assertive, dependable man that is protective of his family and women in general, and pestering him about chores/his inability to meet my standards is the antithesis of that desire.

Good luck OP.

Edited to add: 6) Acting on the advice of TAM posters, I prepared a chore chart and the two of us decided amongst ourselves who would do what. We agreed that I would refrain from asking "Why didn't/did you do x, y,z" and instead allow him the benefit of the doubt such as he had too much to focus on so he didn't get it done as opposed to acting on the assumption that he was lazy. If I felt I had to say something, I could kindly say hey don't forget to do x,y,z. If it absolutely had to get done, I would do it myself and afterwards approach him about him not getting his stuff done (in a non aggressive manner).


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

purgur13 said:


> Just to reiterate...my issue is NOT WITH THE CHORES. I take issue with him LYING TO ME.
> 
> I hear what you're saying, Rowan, but it seems a little over simplified. It's not always a case of just "letting it go". I don't feel like asking simple questions like, "Did you remember to change the air filter?" qualifies as "grilling"... but that's exactly the kind of things he would lie about. All he would have to say is "no" and I would just change it myself (we both do it, it's not a "him" chore) but he'd rather lie for no good reason and risk our a/c unit shutting down in the middle of summer costing us hundreds of dollars and potentially putting us and our pets in a hazardous situation. But if he says he changed it, and I check it anyway, he'll get mad at me for not taking him at his word... even if, when I check it, it obviously _wasn't_ changed and he had lied.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that you _are_ grilling him. I'm saying that it's how _he's perceiving_ the situation. He feels grilled, judged, like he'll be in trouble if he hasn't done whatever the task is that you're asking him about. The answer is to stop questioning him. He's apparently mostly lying when you ask him if he's done a task. He lies because he doesn't want to deal with the conflict if he says "no" he hasn't done [whatever]. Whether that's because of your actual response - now or earlier in the relationship - to him not having done his chores, or because he's hardwired to be incredibly conflict avoidant by his upbringing and basic personality, should become apparent with time. But the way to find out is to stop checking up on what he's supposed to have done. He feels persecuted when he feels like you're managing him. Whether you, or even any other rational person would, see your behavior that way is kinda irrelevant. He sees it that way. Stop questioning him about stuff. Eventually, he'll either step up, or you two will realize you aren't compatible on a fundamental level.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Rowan said:


> I'm not saying that you _are_ grilling him. I'm saying that it's how _he's perceiving_ the situation. He feels grilled, judged, like he'll be in trouble if he hasn't done whatever the task is that you're asking him about. The answer is to stop questioning him. He's apparently mostly lying when you ask him if he's done a task. He lies because he doesn't want to deal with the conflict if he says "no" he hasn't done [whatever]. Whether that's because of your actual response - now or earlier in the relationship - to him not having done his chores, or because he's hardwired to be incredibly conflict avoidant by his upbringing and basic personality, should become apparent with time. But the way to find out is to stop checking up on what he's supposed to have done. He feels persecuted when he feels like you're managing him. Whether you, or even any other rational person would, see your behavior that way is kinda irrelevant. He sees it that way. Stop questioning him about stuff. Eventually, he'll either step up, or you two will realize you aren't compatible on a fundamental level.


Spot on. Focus on the source of the problem OP, not the symptom. What precedes his lies? You asking him certain questions. Take responsibility for what you have control over - the way you interact with him.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

So the real question is are you willing to accept the ways you contribute to this unhealthy dynamic and change? Or will you just continue to see this as a character defect in your husband?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

purgur13 said:


> You've unfortunately described our relationship pretty well. I *hated *it. It ended up that way because he grew up not having to do anything (his grandmother who raised him didn't work and did everything for him) so it took a while for him to get the hang of actually participating in housework. I was EXHAUSTED having to work full-time and be a full-time housewife and it caused a lot of arguments, and I ended up constantly bugging him to do his part.*constantly bugging him*
> 
> We've discussed it and I actually have done my part. For example, I do my "chores" and he is solely responsible for doing his. I stopped doing his laundry or anything else for him because it would inevitably lead to issues where he wasn't "doing his part" (I'm not washing clothes if they're on the floor rather than in the hamper, etc). That part works great. The issue is NOT the chores. They get done... or don't, but usually do eventually. The issue is the LIES. *So the issue is not that he’s not doing his chores, that he’s not making an effort, it’s that you still ride him constantly about little things. He’s given up arguing. It’s easier, he thinks, to lie.*
> 
> ...



I have a suggestion: keep a voice activated recorder in your pocket long enough you forget it’s there and listen to your interactions with your husband.
MAYBE you’ll see that the main thing on your mind is who is doing what chores, who is being neglectful....,
And very little positive comments to your husband about what he is doing RIGHT.

I really think he would have a different perspective on your interaction.

The good news is: this guy quite obviously loves you very much. A lot of guys are too lazy to change much at all that their wives aren’t happy about. He has.

Yet you’ve found something else that he does to be upset about. It could be YOU. All I’m saying. I don’t know you. I don’t have any reason to offend you. It’s just another person’s perspective.

He constantly lies because you are constantly on his case about something, to the point that he proactively lies—- in your own words.

Key factor: he’s not like this with anyone else but you.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

I must admit I'm feeling a little attacked. I understand some of the assumptions you guys are making, but at the same time most of it is just off base. I'm not a chore nazi. Not even close.



Keke24 said:


> It's "his" bathroom, why do you get to decide where he should put his toilet paper? Who cares if they pile up? If it's whatever and you don't care, why do you harp on it? He has no issues with the state of his bathroom, you do. If you think it's too messy for guests, send them up to your bathroom. If that's a problem, you clean the bathroom yourself. If that's a problem, tell him you'd rather not have guests over because you don't want them using your bathroom and his is too messy. If that's a problem then have the guests use his dirty bathroom and let him experience the repercussions like having to get them toilet paper because he forgot to put it in there.


As I already clarified in a later comment...there is no "my bathroom". In reality, there is no "his" bathroom either. It's just that he spends A LOT of time in the hall bathroom and basically ended up taking it over, so I avoid it and it became "his". But I don't have my own bathroom. I have also already mentioned that it is his responsibility to clean the bathrooms. HE chose that, it was not "assigned" to him or whatever. And as such, when it is time for company to come, he doesn't feel like cleaning two bathrooms, so he will clean "his" bathroom and tell guests to use that one. That is HIS RULE. You guys are just assuming that I'm ruling the house with an iron fist but most of this is all is doing. All I did was ask if he remembered to put a fresh roll of toilet paper in. Apparently that is unreasonable... I don't think it's fair to our guests (HIS friends that HE invited) to end up stuck on the toilet in an embarrassing situation having to call out for paper, just because he doesn't like it when I ask him a simple question. I also don't think it's fair for me to have to do his housework for him.



Keke24 said:


> If you have a problem with the toilet plunger being used to plunge the sink: 1) get an alternative plunger and place it in an easily accessible spot, 2) plunge the sink yourself, 3) kindly ask that if he decides to plunge the sink, he clean the ring if one is left after plunging.


I kind of wish you had read my later comment(s). I already mentioned that this all just happened last night. Here's the details... He told me the sink was backed up Sunday night (bed time) and talked about plunging it. I asked him not to, to just wait, because the thought of putting poop that close to my toothbrush made my stomach churn. I told him I'd pick up a sink plunger. I actually came home yesterday evening with a sink plunger, Drano, and a snake in hand. He said he'd already plunged it. When I asked what he meant, he said he used his hand. I went into the bathroom to put the supplies away for next time and noticed the obvious plunger ring in the sink. But I guess that's my fault too somehow? Unrealistic of me to expect him to just wait for an hour for me to get home?



Keke24 said:


> He lies because of a combination of things: 1) you have higher standards for cleanliness than he does and you believe that meeting your standards is the correct way to address the situation. 2) you have not learned to compromise because you are convinced that something is wrong with him not having the same standards and you get so stressed out by his failure to meet these standards that you resort to pestering him to get him to do things your way so that you can relax. 3) because you pester him to meet YOUR standards, he feels like he is being treated like one of the children but he'd rather avoid the conflict that will surely result from him trying to tell you that you're unreasonable, and resort to passive aggressive conflict avoidance instead.


1) I definitely do have higher standards. And while I hold myself to those standards, I do not believe that my way is the "right" way or the only way to do things.
2) None of this point is true. Please read my other comments.
3) See above. 



Keke24 said:


> If I felt I had to say something, I could kindly say hey don't forget to do x,y,z. If it absolutely had to get done, I would do it myself and afterwards approach him about him not getting his stuff done (in a non aggressive manner).


This is exactly what I'm doing. Except I'm not even going as far as to bug him (in my opinion that would be nagging) after the fact if something gets done. If something is needed or on a time crunch (like if company is on its way over in 15 minutes) I just remind him that it needs doing. But rather than TELL him to do it (which ironically seems to be what you're saying), I ASK him if he's already done it. Because I try to give him the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming he hasn't done it and because I'm not his boss to be ordering him around.

I really do make every effort to meet him halfway here. I'm not on him about getting stuff done. I don't fuss at him or nag him. I speak to him like an adult. But he still responds to me by lying.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Keke24 said:


> Spot on. Focus on the source of the problem OP, not the symptom. What precedes his lies? You asking him certain questions. Take responsibility for what you have control over - the way you interact with him.


So what do you suggest going forward? This is why I'm here. At this point I have exhausted what I know to do and I need suggestions...SPECIFIC suggestions not just vague suggestions like "stop that".


Assuming he knew how to live as an adult was wrong.
Asking him to just "help" didn't work. He had no idea what went into managing a household.
Telling him what to do caused a lot of friction and led to the mother/child dynamic we're still trying to climb out of.
Letting him know what needed to be done and giving him his choice of "chores" worked. But we still LIVE TOGETHER so there are times where I need to know if something happened/got done. I can either 1) ask him about it OR 2) check myself. Either way he gets mad.

So what new ideas do you have for me that you think will work?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

purgur13 said:


> I must admit I'm feeling a little attacked. I understand some of the assumptions you guys are making, but at the same time most of it is just off base. I'm not a chore nazi. Not even close.
> 
> *It is understandable that you feel attacked as most of the responses have focused on pointing out negative behaviours on your part. Do not take it as a personal attack. Just bear with us because we're basing our responses only on your posts and have no idea of the true context of your life with husband on a daily basis. If you are not ok with anything that we've posted, simply ignore us. You are free to pick and choose whatever makes the most sense to you.*
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

1)Don’t ask him questions that you know he’d lie about. It’s pointless. Just check for yourself.

2) try making ten positive comments for every negative.

3) record your interactions or keep a journal in the evening— just a simple list of things. See if you’re spending most of your time together worrying about trivial stuff or having fun together laughing and talking.

4). Tell your husband you love him and thank him for doing the chores more. Ask him to tell you if he’s feeling nagged before he gets upset, and let him know you’re working on it, and hoping you can work on things further as a team.

5). Take a vacation and let somebody else worry about things for a while and enjoy your husband. Take a break.

Oh, and sorry for making you feel attacked.

You’re obviously quite an amazing woman if your husband loves you this much. 😁😜


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Don't ask. Don't ask, not believe him, and then go investigate to see if he's lying to you about it. Those are the behaviors of a parent towards a slacking child. 

Do go check for yourself to see if something is done. If it is not you have the option to do it yourself if it seems important. If it's not important enough to do yourself, then continue to ignore it. He's an adult who is entitled to his own autonomy. 


Look, the marital dynamic you two have is clearly not working for either of you. You can remain aggravated by his behaviors, which you cannot control, or you can control your own behaviors and let the chips fall where they may. The role of resentful, sulky, teen rebelling against a controlling mom may really just be hardwired in your husband. Some men really do see that as absolutely normal. Some want, and will seek, out partners who will parent them, even if it's done subconsciously. Others may enact their half of the dynamic whether their wife is actually controlling and parental towards them or not. All you can do is not be a participant in that dynamic. Don't be parental or controlling, and let him sort himself out. It may be that the two of you cannot work this out to the point of being able to create sustainable compatibility, because he is just severely conflict-avoidant and can't adjust to being honest even in the absence of censure. But you won't know until you've spent some time with your side of the street completely cleaned up. 

A marriage counselor may help you two figure things out and might be an excellent place to start. I also highly recommend the books Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs, both by Willard Harley. The first will help you pinpoint what might be going on that's destroying the love in your marriage. The second will help you figure out ways to build love up again.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

purgur13 said:


> So what do you suggest going forward? This is why I'm here. At this point I have exhausted what I know to do and I need suggestions...SPECIFIC suggestions not just vague suggestions like "stop that".
> 
> 
> Assuming he knew how to live as an adult was wrong.
> ...


You seem convinced that his lying is a character flaw and not in any way related to the way you two interact. I can only recall one poster on here who has extensive experience with a spouse who is a habitual liar. He may be able to offer some insight in that regard @WilliamM.

You pointed out an example where he felt the need to lie regarding his diet. What was your response when he admitted that he lied because he knows he shouldn't be eating that food?

At what point in the relationship did you first begin to notice the lying? 

As we know, our current behavior is largely influenced by experiences from childhood. Besides the fact that his granny did everything for him, what do you know about his childhood?

Have you two had honest, calm conversations about his lying? What was the outcome?


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Yeah, Evin I think you pretty much misconstrued that whole post.



Evinrude58 said:


> So the issue is not that he’s not doing his chores, that he’s not making an effort, it’s that you still ride him constantly about little things. He’s given up arguing. It’s easier, he thinks, to lie


I think you missed the part where the nagging was past tense. This was well over 6 years ago he and I were both learning how to live together. He had never done housework and I had never lived with someone that never did housework. That stuff ended a long time ago. I already said I stopped bugging him about doing his stuff. I do my chores and he does his, however and whenever he gets around to them. He has a whole list of chores that I have nothing to do with or say anything about. The only thing I do consistently ask about is the air filter (which isn't HIS chore it's something we both do).



Evinrude58 said:


> What if he says “I forgot”. He’s in for ****, I can tell....


No actually. I don't mind picking up a little slack, that's the thing. In the case of the toilet paper I just wanted to make sure there was some in there before our company arrived. If I knew there wasn't, I simply would've made sure I put some in after I got done taking care of all my own chores. I would've just added it to my mental "to-do" list. I wasn't asking to start a fight. It's just toilet paper, my goodness.



Evinrude58 said:


> Banning him, OMG. Lol


Yes, I'm glad you also see the absurdity of that idea and how inevitable the situation actually was.



Evinrude58 said:


> No, he fixed the problem. He did good. Really


In reality, it's not fixed. The sink is still backed up. I will be plunging and snaking it myself now tonight. So not only did he LIE TO MY FACE which is absolutely NOT GOOD and the main point of this entire story that seems to keep getting overlooked for some reason... he did not fix the problem.



Evinrude58 said:


> Omg putting the pets in a hazardous situation.... this is laughable


I'm glad it's laughable to you but it's a reality for me. Where I live it can get well into the 100s up into the 110s in the summer and we live in a brick house. Last summer our a/c went out (come to find out it was because the filter hadn't been changed in 4 months) and our brick house turned into an oven. It was 115 degrees in the house. If that had happened one morning while I was at work and I didn't have a chance to get my dogs out of the house they literally could have died. So yeah, that's something I do take seriously. But I don't fuss over it, I just ask if he changed it and if he didn't I change it myself. Again, that's not actually HIS chore it's just something that needs to get done and whoever remembers to do it, does it. He checks up on me to do it too because we both take it seriously.



Evinrude58 said:


> Omg, again, you’re looking at every transaction and holding it against the poor guy. You’re anal if anybody ever was!!


Yes I look at every transaction because I'm the one tasked with keeping the budget. I go through our accounts every Friday to make sure every bill came out that was supposed to be paid. That was one of the chores that HE decided I should do. I didn't hold it against him. Like I said what's $10 or $15? Who cares if he goes out to lunch? I just wanted to know why he lied to me.



Evinrude58 said:


> Seriously, I really do think you can’t see yourself for what it is you’re doing. You are really hard to live with and are oblivious to it. Your husband is really trying hard to make you happy and you don’t see it. It sounds like he’s changed a lot for the better and you still aren’t happy. He feels like he can’t win.


He has changed a lot for the better. I tell him that all the time. I thank him every time he does something even if it's as small as getting the mail. And I actually AM happy. I just can't stand the lies.



Evinrude58 said:


> I have a suggestion: keep a voice activated recorder in your pocket long enough you forget it’s there and listen to your interactions with your husband.
> MAYBE you’ll see that the main thing on your mind is who is doing what chores, who is being neglectful....,
> And very little positive comments to your husband about what he is doing RIGHT.


There is SO MUCH FOCUS on chores. I wish I had never used that example. It was just an example! That's not what the lies are all about. The plunger incident had nothing to do with chores, he just FLAT OUT LIED. He had no reason to even bother with plunging the sink but he did it anyway and then lied. Yet the only thing anyone can seem to focus on is chores chores chores despite my insistence that the chore issue has been addressed OVER 6 YEARS AGO and is in a state of constant improvement.



Evinrude58 said:


> Key factor: he’s not like this with anyone else but you.


Correction, all I said is that I don't know if he lies to his bosses/coworkers. That was the question I was asked, that I answered. You are making an assumption. He does lie to his mother and grandmother compulsively to get out of doing things or going to see them. His "little white lies" are a habit. I just don't know if he lies about doing work, at work, the way he does at home.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Keke24 said:


> You seem convinced that his lying is a character flaw and not in any way related to the way you two interact. I can only recall one poster on here who has extensive experience with a spouse who is a habitual liar. He may be able to offer some insight in that regard @WilliamM.


Not necessarily. I am willing to change my behavior as indicated by the fact that I _have _changed my behavior multiple times in an attempt to improve our relationship. However, I do believe in personal responsibility and while I am willing to accept an _influence _I will NOT accept responsibility for his actions. He is an adult and always has a choice to behave in a mature, respectful, honest way. He makes the decision to lie. I have asked for suggestions, and I am open to them. As I said, I've tried everything I know how to do.



Keke24 said:


> You pointed out an example where he felt the need to lie regarding his diet. What was your response when he admitted that he lied because he knows he shouldn't be eating that food?


He said something like, "Ugh I've been eating so terribly I said I'd start eating better." And I said something like, "If you want we can go grocery shopping and get some food that you can take to lunch so you won't be tempted."



Keke24 said:


> At what point in the relationship did you first begin to notice the lying?


Very early. It started with the "little white lies" which probably should've been "big red flags" but at that point in my life I had very little experience with dishonesty in relationships. I assumed (my fault) that he wouldn't lie once we established a more solid, trusting relationship.



Keke24 said:


> As we know, our current behavior is largely influenced by experiences from childhood. Besides the fact that his granny did everything for him, what do you know about his childhood?


I know his mother was fairly young when she had him (he was born a day after her 18th birthday) and had a tenuous relationship with her until very recently. His parents split when he was a toddler. He was raised by his grandparents through until his teen years. He was a decent kid. Smart but "mentally lazy" in school. Anything specific you're looking for?



Keke24 said:


> Have you two had honest, calm conversations about his lying? What was the outcome?


Yes a few times. I have told him that it hurts me and that I feel disrespected and asked him to open up to me about it. He said it's "habit" and "first instinct" and feels easier than telling the truth, even when he knows that the truth isn't a big deal. Then he promises to be honest from then on but the cycle continues.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> 1)Don’t ask him questions that you know he’d lie about. It’s pointless. Just check for yourself.
> 
> 2) try making ten positive comments for every negative.
> 
> ...


1) I have no way of knowing which questions he is going to lie to. He randomly lies. It's NOT ALL ABOUT THE CHORES. It could be what he had for lunch (and this isn't about whereyoubeenwhoyoubeenwith it's just a "hey honey how was your day" type of question), it could be if he used whatever widget I'm looking for, it could be if he has weekend plans. So basically I would not be able to ask any questions.

I love the other suggestions though. 

I do try to be thankful but I've never put a number on it. I think making that conscious effort to keep it proportional could help me make sure I'm not overloading him on any given day or time.

I also like the idea of communication. It would give us both a chance to work on ourselves and force us to check ourselves and manage our bad habits.

The vacation is in the works :grin2:


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

purgur13 said:


> Not necessarily. I am willing to change my behavior as indicated by the fact that I _have _changed my behavior multiple times in an attempt to improve our relationship. However, I do believe in personal responsibility and while I am willing to accept an _influence _I will NOT accept responsibility for his actions. He is an adult and always has a choice to behave in a mature, respectful, honest way. He makes the decision to lie. I have asked for suggestions, and I am open to them. As I said, I've tried everything I know how to do.
> 
> *Agreed. It sounds like you've made a big effort to try to remedy the situation.*
> 
> ...


All that to say that getting a more detailed understanding of your husband's childhood, will help the two of you figure out why he developed a need to lie which will set you on a path to addressing it. My partner is open enough that if I ask the right questions, I can get him talking about his past for hours. I've been so successful at getting him to see some of the links between his childhood and current actions, that he actually decided to go to individual counseling with zero nudging from me.

I'm not sure what your husband's attitude towards counseling is however that may be the key to helping you deal with his lying if it is becoming too much of a burden. If I recall correctly, @WilliamM's wife needed extensive counseling to shed light on the childhood experiences that led to her becoming a pathological liar (is that term a correct label for her @WilliamM? No intention to offend.). Again he can shed light on the practical ways in which they deal with her lying on a daily basis.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You may be a freaking awesome wife, and are just fed up with craziness. I’m not there, as you know. Do you have someone close that witnesses your interactions and would tell you the truth whether or not it hurt either of you? Not your best friend, not your mother, heh heh.

Maybe say whether you have a bad tone withh, or nag him, or if he’s just a compulsive liar that doesn’t take care of anything?

I hope you figure it all out.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Make him go to counselling for it. He knows why he does it, now he needs to put the effort into changing it. 

OMG. You have the patience of a saint. If my SO was asked if they did something and I found out they lied to me about it I would have lost my s*** on them. The first words out of my mouth would have been that I do not care that you didnt do it, I care that you lied to me about it. You lie constantly and about the stupidest s*** and I am getting really fed up. You know why you do it so now make the effort in fixing YOUR PROBLEM.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> You may be a freaking awesome wife, and are just fed up with craziness. I’m not there, as you know. Do you have someone close that witnesses your interactions and would tell you the truth whether or not it hurt either of you? Not your best friend, not your mother, heh heh.
> 
> Maybe say whether you have a bad tone withh, or nag him, or if he’s just a compulsive liar that doesn’t take care of anything?
> 
> I hope you figure it all out.


His mother pulls no punches haha But their relationship is tenuous as it is. He doesn't really respect her or value her opinions so even when she speaks truth he doesn't take her seriously. I think our friends would be scared to be 100% honest.

It's not that he doesn't take care of anything. He actually does his share around the house. That's what's so baffling. I'm not constantly on him about chores because he actually does them. For the most part, he keeps up with what he's supposed to do and I make sure he knows it. (If he forgets something it's not a big deal. His chores aren't time sensitive, that's why he chose the ones he did.) We don't have money troubles and have never gotten into fights over finances. Neither of us are cheaters. As far as I can tell there's no good reason for him to lie.

I don't claim to be perfect. Sometimes I am sarcastic BUT if it happens at an inappropriate time he is quick to call me out on it. (I am careful not to be rude or sarcastic when bringing up issues or confronting him. It's just my brand of humor and sometimes I offend which he will let me know.)


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

I don't think the chores are the problem at all. I think his lying is an attempt at self-protection and whenever he feels an attack of any sort is imminent, he lies to avoid it. I think you would do well to take note of your tone and body language, especially in the time before and after you recognize a lie and note your words in combination with your tone - does one betray the other? 

There's also a possibility that he is passive aggressively trying to upset you by telling such stupid lies, which means he's either a jerk or he's got some resentments.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

@purgur13, so here is the thing, from my perspective: you already know that your guy lies to you about these little things. It's his thing. It is how he handles conflict with you. You can't control his decision, you can't make him handle it any differently. 

There is a saying, "What you resist, Persists". He lies. The way forward is acceptance of it. Acceptance is NOT the same as approval. It's just an acknowledgement of the reality. You want him to behave differently, but he doesn't. My first recommendation is just to Accept that this is what he does, at least at this point in time. 

Stop resisting it, trying to change it, or fighting it. It is what it is. You can't hurry up a turtle or prevent it from retreating into its shell; you can't make your husband be anything more or less than what he is. 

Once you've accepted the reality, there will be fewer surprises, and hopefully much reduced resentment. You will be able to make your plans accordingly.

So what does that look like? 

It depends on your priorities and how you want to protect yourself. So for instance, if he tells you that he plunged the sink and you suspect that he plunged the sink with the toilet bowl plunger, go ahead and disinfect everything, maybe change out your toothbrush. Then prepare to plunge it again yourself or call a plumber. If you already know that you won't get the truth from your H, why ask for it? Just take care of the situation.

If your H says he wants to eat healthier but then goes out and buys a bag of candy- well, he is like most of us! LOL. You don't have to get involved. Just leave his thing to him. 

No need to make a big deal out of anything. No need to fight about anything. If he gets mad because you're, say, plunging the sink after he told he did it, you can just smile and thank him and say that you are just doing another check.

If he asks you outright whether or not you trust him, you can just say "No." If he asks, I think it is important to be honest and tell him that you don't trust him on certain issues, but it doesn't have to be a fight. No judgement on it, just a statement of What Is, when it comes to you (e.g. "In the past, I've been let down when you said one thing but did another. Now, I feel better when I take of the issue and I know it is done" vs "In the past, you've lied to my face".) If he tries to tell you that he didn't lie in the past, you can just shrug, or say, "I see it differently. No need to fight about it. It is what it is. Then disengage.

The question for you is, how important is this, in the big picture. I think in any long-term marriage, each spouse is going to have some traits/habits that will annoy the other spouse. Is this something that is tolerable for you? Or is it a deal breaker? It will vary for each person. It is obviously not ideal behavior- but then, the Ideal Marriage doesn't exist in reality. 

You never know- if the conflict is entirely removed, his behavior might change. But I think you should be prepared for his behavior to remain the same. You've tried a number of different things and none of them have worked. At this point, I think your best bet is just to accept that he does what he does, and make your decisions accordingly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

First you said:



purgur13 said:


> I'm not sure. I didn't grow up with him so I can't speak from experience. All I know is that he is an experienced (if not very good) and manipulative liar.


Then you said:



purgur13 said:


> You've unfortunately described our relationship pretty well. I hated it. It ended up that way because he grew up not having to do anything (his grandmother who raised him didn't work and did everything for him) so it took a while for him to get the hang of actually participating in housework.


Those two answers do not sit well with each other, to be honest.

However... Is it possible he lies to you in order to protect himself? Do you fly into rages, for example?

He is lazy, that's true.

So... what is it you bring to the table, in a negative sense? Anything? Or is it all 100% on him?

I think relationship counselling might be of benefit.H


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

xMadame said:


> Make him go to counselling for it. He knows why he does it, now he needs to put the effort into changing it.
> 
> OMG. You have the patience of a saint. If my SO was asked if they did something and I found out they lied to me about it I would have lost my s*** on them. The first words out of my mouth would have been that I do not care that you didnt do it, I care that you lied to me about it. You lie constantly and about the stupidest s*** and I am getting really fed up. You know why you do it so now make the effort in fixing YOUR PROBLEM.


Eh...I don't know if it's patience as much as "stick-to-it-ness". 

Tried the denial approach. Just pretend I didn't notice the lies and ended up feeling like you know what all the time. I was moping around feeling unloved and depressed which is definitely not good for the love life of a newlywed couple.

The yelling bossy thing doesn't work for us. Neither of us likes it. I prefer to reason through things and any kind of emotional display causes him to shut down completely.

I'm just trying to make it work. We actually do love each other and if one thing doesn't work I'll just try something else.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Magnesium said:


> I don't think the chores are the problem at all. I think his lying is an attempt at self-protection and whenever he feels an attack of any sort is imminent, he lies to avoid it. I think you would do well to take note of your tone and body language, especially in the time before and after you recognize a lie and note your words in combination with your tone - does one betray the other?
> 
> There's also a possibility that he is passive aggressively trying to upset you by telling such stupid lies, which means he's either a jerk or he's got some resentments.


Being totally honest, both are possible.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

RoseAglow said:


> @purgur13, so here is the thing, from my perspective: you already know that your guy lies to you about these little things. It's his thing. It is how he handles conflict with you. You can't control his decision, you can't make him handle it any differently.
> 
> There is a saying, "What you resist, Persists". He lies. The way forward is acceptance of it. Acceptance is NOT the same as approval. It's just an acknowledgement of the reality. You want him to behave differently, but he doesn't. My first recommendation is just to Accept that this is what he does, at least at this point in time.
> 
> ...


This is excellent advice. I abhor the idea of accepting his behavior. Lying is a BIG DEAL to me. It's beyond annoying. For me it is a betrayal of trust and a display of disrespect. Honestly is pretty much the ONLY thing I absolutely require in my relationships. If you just straight up hate my face, I can get over it if you tell me honestly. At least I know. I can either get plastic surgery, wear a bag, face the opposite direction, only speak to you over the phone, or just stop being friends with you. It's an extreme and ridiculous example... but the point is I'd rather do something than just keep coming around shoving my big ugly face at you every day causing resentment to build up. Secrets and lies ruin relationships.

It's just that he lies about any and everything. It's random. I never know when the next lie is going to come flying out of his mouth. So it almost feels like "acceptance" is going to turn into "denial" and my ignoring all the lies he continues to tell. I've tried that once before and it was emotionally destructive for me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Are you saying he lies about things that aren't between you two (like the tasks around the house)? If so, what other kinds of things? Are they lies about things that you can say *aren't* a reactivate lie to a dynamic between you two?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I have a husband who does not tell me anything. He does not open up... not just to me but really to anyone. There are so many things in our life that I find out by accident, not because he told me about them. It's not lying, per se, but the root cause is the same... he withholds information for fear of being judged. It's predominantly a self esteem issue. 

It really broke my heart when I first realized just how much he withholds himself from me. I took it personally, and after feeling sad about it, I started to get angry about it. I felt that he was doing it on purpose! I constantly pushed him because I just wanted to know WHY he was like this. When I was angry about it, the problem got worse... because I wasn't good at hiding my anger, and I became the manifestation of what he feared... I was critical and questioning and exasperated. That only made him withdraw more. It also made me into a person that I did not like. I hated who I saw in the mirror. 

I knew I had to ditch the anger. At that time the only reason I had was for myself. I didn't like who I was becoming. The only way I could cool my anger was by withdrawing from him. Not physically, but mentally and emotionally. I had to get to a place where I could be objective about what was happening in our relationship. I stopped approaching him, stopped pushing, completely retreated. There was no resentment there... no tricks up my sleeve. I was just retreating from the battlefield. I didn't want to fight the battle anymore. 

Once I had some clarity, I was able to see some things. I noticed how his mom behaves... love her to death, and I mean that sincerely... but she is a critical person, and a gossip. The minute she knows something, the whole family knows it...no matter how personal or embarrassing. So if I grew up in that environment I would certainly learn to keep quiet lest you give her fuel for the gossip train. I also realized that when I am angry, my husband literally ceases to think rationally. I can see the wheels turning in his head as he goes into panic mode... trying to think of the "right" thing to say to make it stop... rather than just being honest and saying what is on his mind. A lot of HIS perception of my anger comes from tone of voice and body language...much more so than the words I am actually using. This was a brutal lesson for me to learn. I always try to be careful, measured and fair when I speak. But my husband found me intimidating. 

I also realized how little I shared with my husband about myself. I do not find it easy to be vulnerable, and I guess I always expected him to go first in that area. I wanted his honesty so that I could share mine with him. He didn't see me as someone safe he could be vulnerable with though. I am a pretty stoic person by nature and don't show a lot of emotion. That added to my intimidation factor. 

I remember one day he asked me how my day went. We typically respond with pleasantries that don't go beyond "it was fine, how was yours" but on this day I decided to be honest and just tell him how the day really went. It had sucked. I made a big mistake at work and I was feeling awful about it. I told him how stupid I felt. He looked almost relieved that I had said something he could relate to LOL. I shared an insecurity. He thought I had no insecurities. 

Gradually I forced myself to be more honest with him about my own side of the street. About everything... from mundane thoughts to deeper stuff I would not usually tell him. As a result he has been opening up to me more, too. It's still a work in progress but I feel that there's more of a sense of peace about us now than there used to be. 

I realize you've got to be frustrated. I know that I would be in your shoes. The thing is, being more forceful with him or letting him see your frustration is only going to make his behavior worse. When you are angry, take two steps back and walk away from him. It will be hard to do that... been there, done that. You don't have to be fake and cheerful about it. If he asks you why you are quiet or whatever, you tell him why very plainly. If he gets upset with you when you tell him, you still walk away... Don't argue. I just say "Sorry but, that's the way I feel." And leave it there. 







Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> It sounds like you’re a controlling, overbearing, poo-stirrer. And rather than start a fight with you, which you may really like, he subconsciously decides it’s not worth it to tell the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Exactly what I was thinking.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

purgur13 said:


> This is excellent advice. I abhor the idea of accepting his behavior. Lying is a BIG DEAL to me. It's beyond annoying. For me it is a betrayal of trust and a display of disrespect. Honestly is pretty much the ONLY thing I absolutely require in my relationships. ... it almost feels like "acceptance" is going to turn into "denial" and my ignoring all the lies he continues to tell. I've tried that once before and it was emotionally destructive for me.


While you say RoseAglow has offered excellent advice, you then reinforce your stance that your husband's lying is abhorrent to you. It appears even the advice you deem "excellent" is worthy of an argument. Please see your above comments, which is the reason I'm making that statement.

Nobody can determine if this is a deal-breaker for you; only you can make that call. As you have stated: (1) lying is abhorrent to you, (2) it is a BIG DEAL to you, (3) it is beyond annoying, (4) it a betrayal of trust, (5) is a display of self respect, and (6) you ABSOLUTELY require honesty in your relationships.

YET YOUR HUSBAND CONTINUES TO LIE.

You are here for advice. You find your husband's behavior, basically, a deal breaker.

Thus, the onus of responsibility lies on you. After all, if his lying is so reprehensible to you, and he continues to indulge in this behavior (keeping in mind you CANNOT change him), then it sounds like a no-brainer to me. You leave and find an honest partner.

SERIOUSLY.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

purgur13 said:


> This is excellent advice. I abhor the idea of accepting his behavior. Lying is a BIG DEAL to me. It's beyond annoying. For me it is a betrayal of trust and a display of disrespect. Honestly is pretty much the ONLY thing I absolutely require in my relationships. If you just straight up hate my face, I can get over it if you tell me honestly. At least I know. I can either get plastic surgery, wear a bag, face the opposite direction, only speak to you over the phone, or just stop being friends with you. It's an extreme and ridiculous example... but the point is I'd rather do something than just keep coming around shoving my big ugly face at you every day causing resentment to build up. Secrets and lies ruin relationships.
> 
> It's just that he lies about any and everything. It's random. I never know when the next lie is going to come flying out of his mouth. So it almost feels like "acceptance" is going to turn into "denial" and my ignoring all the lies he continues to tell. I've tried that once before and it was emotionally destructive for me.


I hear you! Openness and Honesty is considered an Emotional Need for most people. 

If you can practice it correctly, Acceptance is the exact opposite of Denial.

Acceptance is: "I see what you're doing. I might not like it, but I am not going to fight it. I am not going to try to control it. It is yours to own." It is deciding not to rely upon someone who has proven to be unreliable.

Denial is: "I see what you're doing and I hate it. I am either going to ignore it so I don't have to deal with it." It is relying on person who is known to be unreliable, then being angry at the person.

You could throw in controlling, too: "I see what you're doing and I hate it. I am going to do everything possible to change your behavior because I can't stand it!"

If you're looking for a way to make your husband be more truthful, then you're looking for something that doesn't exist. We can influence or contribute to someone's behavior, but that's as far as it goes. You've tried to change your behavior in order to influence his; you've tried to work with him, to motivate him to change, to make it easier for him to change. Nothing has worked. He is not willing to make those changes.

You don't have to ignore the lies; just see them for what they are. Know that you can't trust whatever he has to say and that you are going to have to verify it independently. Or better yet, set up situations so that you are fully relying on yourself to begin with. 

This boils down to: is this a deal breaker for you? Are you otherwise getting what you need in order to stay in the relationship. It might be case that he is able to meet other important emotional needs, like family, physical attractiveness, great sex, good financial support, etc, and so you stay in love with him. Everyone has their own individual deal breakers.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

purgur13 said:


> *Is there any hope for us? * I can't seem to get down to the true root cause of his lying and he isn't making any effort to work with me towards resolving the issue. Lack of trust is a _major _issue in a relationship for me. Any suggestions?


To be blunt: NO. There isnt. There is nothing worse than a liar, and here is the kicker... THEY DO NOT CHANGE. EVER. Lying is so deeply ingrained into who they are that they dont even realize they do it most of the time. They believe the crap that comes out of their mouth, and they seriously believe that YOU are the one with the problem. So trying to get them to get help is just beating your head on the wall. They have zero respect for how other people feel, they are in constant self preservation, self importance mode CONSTANTLY. You refer to the root cause... it isnt you. This is who he is. I think it often starts out early on in their lives as a defense mechanism, like you mentioned avoiding getting in trouble for something they did. I had one boyfriend who lied mostly for attention. I mean like making up entire stories kind of lying so that he would look like the hero, or get sympathy, or whatever. I had another bf way back who lied like your husband, about the stupidest, mundane, moronic crap... like saying he took a shower when he really didnt... that kind of thing. (like I couldnt figure the truth out on that one??)

Do you REALLY want to live the next 40 years of your life with someone you cant believe or trust? Because this will not go away. I have lived it, more than once, and I'm sorry to say that this will not get better.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

purgur13 said:


> This is excellent advice. I abhor the idea of accepting his behavior. Lying is a BIG DEAL to me. It's beyond annoying. For me it is a betrayal of trust and a display of disrespect. Honestly is pretty much the ONLY thing I absolutely require in my relationships.


Yet you married and are staying married to a man that is a chronic liar. Why?



purgur13 said:


> ThisIt's just that he lies about any and everything. It's random. I never know when the next lie is going to come flying out of his mouth.


Meaning you can't trust or rely on him.



3Xnocharm said:


> Do you REALLY want to live the next 40 years of your life with someone you cant believe or trust? Because this will not go away. I have lived it, more than once, and I'm sorry to say that this will not get better.


Not only this, but...

Do you plan to have children someday? Children live what they learn. Children are also generally clever and observant. If Junior sees Daddy lie to Mommy to avoid conflict, judgement, "getting in trouble", whatever, I can guarantee you Junior will also lie.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

:scratchhead:

No idea why people put up with this, trust is one of the main pillars of any successful relationship, whether a spouse, a friend, a partner, or family.

You catch him on his lies multiple times a week? Was he always this way? Regardless I have to agree with others, there's only one solution for a lying spouse, leave and find an honest one!


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

kag123 said:


> Once I had some clarity, I was able to see some things. I noticed how his mom behaves... love her to death, and I mean that sincerely... but she is a critical person, and a gossip. The minute she knows something, the whole family knows it...no matter how personal or embarrassing. So if I grew up in that environment I would certainly learn to keep quiet lest you give her fuel for the gossip train.


My husband's family is the same way... Never thought about that being a factor. Something to think about!



kag123 said:


> I also realized that when I am angry, my husband literally ceases to think rationally. I can see the wheels turning in his head as he goes into panic mode... trying to think of the "right" thing to say to make it stop... rather than just being honest and saying what is on his mind. A lot of HIS perception of my anger comes from tone of voice and body language...much more so than the words I am actually using. This was a brutal lesson for me to learn. I always try to be careful, measured and fair when I speak. But my husband found me intimidating.
> 
> I also realized how little I shared with my husband about myself. I do not find it easy to be vulnerable, and I guess I always expected him to go first in that area. I wanted his honesty so that I could share mine with him. He didn't see me as someone safe he could be vulnerable with though. I am a pretty stoic person by nature and don't show a lot of emotion. That added to my intimidation factor.


You and I sound similar. I consider myself being logical or rational and speaking plainly but for a lot of people it comes off as cold and unfeeling and can be intimidating. We've also had this talk and we've gotten to a place where he usually knows the difference between angry me and regular me, but will ask if unsure or express when he feels like my tone is too "rude".



kag123 said:


> I realize you've got to be frustrated. I know that I would be in your shoes. The thing is, being more forceful with him or letting him see your frustration is only going to make his behavior worse. When you are angry, take two steps back and walk away from him. It will be hard to do that... been there, done that. You don't have to be fake and cheerful about it. If he asks you why you are quiet or whatever, you tell him why very plainly. If he gets upset with you when you tell him, you still walk away... Don't argue. I just say "Sorry but, that's the way I feel." And leave it there.


Good advice, thanks.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> While you say RoseAglow has offered excellent advice, you then reinforce your stance that your husband's lying is abhorrent to you. It appears even the advice you deem "excellent" is worthy of an argument. Please see your above comments, which is the reason I'm making that statement.


I am not arguing. I do believe that advice was excellent. But within the post were questions, and my statements were answers to those questions.

By the way...just because I don't like the idea of doing something, doesn't mean I'm not willing to try it. I hate the thought of "accepting" his lies. It just sounds awful. But what she(?) said makes sense (it really was excellent advice). Perhaps I do need to stop worrying myself over his lying so much and just let him do whatever he's going to do. I have been so busy trying to _actively _solve the problem by figuring out WHY he's lying. Hopefully by just letting him lie and then going about my normal life without fuss, it will take the pressure off of both of us.



Prodigal said:


> Nobody can determine if this is a deal-breaker for you; only you can make that call. As you have stated: (1) lying is abhorrent to you, (2) it is a BIG DEAL to you, (3) it is beyond annoying, (4) it a betrayal of trust, (5) is a display of self respect, and (6) you ABSOLUTELY require honesty in your relationships.
> 
> YET YOUR HUSBAND CONTINUES TO LIE.
> 
> ...


That is one option. However, while I do not believe people can change other people, I do believe people can change. I know that I myself have changed and grown and I know that he has also changed and grown and that we have both become better people and better spouses throughout our relationship. So if there is a way for us to work together to resolve this issue, just as we have resolved our other issues in the past, and continue the marriage that we otherwise enjoy, WHY NOT?


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

OP-

I honestly don't think your husband's lies are intrinsic. I honestly think this is a response to the dynamic.

I was married to a compulsive/habitual liar... which is VERY different from what you describe.

The lies your husband says are essentially reactionary. Whereas, a habitual liar would tell unsolicited lies often not for a clear benefit (such as getting out of trouble or out of having to do something).

You are the one who is here asking for advice. We can only give you perspective on what you can do to change the dynamic.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> Yet you married and are staying married to a man that is a chronic liar. Why?


When I married him, I did not realize he was a chronic liar. [Not an excuse] At the time I was young, somewhat naive, and entirely optimistic. He had lied at least once at that point, but I mean...who hasn't lie before... If I had known then that his lying was a chronic/habitual issue or his particular brand of conflict resolution, it probably would have changed the outcome of our relationship.

But here we are, and due to the history of our relationship I can't say with certainty that his current lying habits are 100% his fault. I've touched on the fact that we had a hard time in the beginning working out our relationship dynamic. I am totally willing to admit that early friction could have caused or influenced him and may still be. So before I throw the baby out with the bathwater, I want to at least see if this otherwise great marriage is salvageable.



MJJEAN said:


> Do you plan to have children someday? Children live what they learn. Children are also generally clever and observant. If Junior sees Daddy lie to Mommy to avoid conflict, judgement, "getting in trouble", whatever, I can guarantee you Junior will also lie.


That would put added pressure on the situation. But no we don't intend to have children.


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## purgur13 (Mar 27, 2018)

RoseAglow said:


> I hear you! Openness and Honesty is considered an Emotional Need for most people.
> 
> If you can practice it correctly, Acceptance is the exact opposite of Denial.
> 
> ...


That makes sense.



RoseAglow said:


> This boils down to: is this a deal breaker for you? Are you otherwise getting what you need in order to stay in the relationship. It might be case that he is able to meet other important emotional needs, like family, physical attractiveness, great sex, good financial support, etc, and so you stay in love with him. Everyone has their own individual deal breakers.


He really is an amazing husband and as the years go by he gets even better and he makes me better. This one is going to take some soul searching. I've gotten lots of great advice on this thread. If, when it's all said and done, he really is just a straight up _liar _ I'll have to figure out if I can stomach that for the rest of my life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

purgur13 said:


> When I married him, I did not realize he was a chronic liar. [Not an excuse] At the time I was young, somewhat naive, and entirely optimistic. He had lied at least once at that point, but I mean...who hasn't lie before... If I had known then that his lying was a chronic/habitual issue or his particular brand of conflict resolution, it probably would have changed the outcome of our relationship.
> 
> But here we are, and due to the history of our relationship I can't say with certainty that his current lying habits are 100% his fault. I've touched on the fact that we had a hard time in the beginning working out our relationship dynamic. I am totally willing to admit that early friction could have caused or influenced him and may still be. So before I throw the baby out with the bathwater, I want to at least see if this otherwise great marriage is salvageable.
> 
> ...


Yes, you can say with certainty his current lying habits are all 100% him. He's a grown adult. He knows lying is wrong and that lying breaks trust. He knows lying upsets you. He _chooses_ to lie anyway. 

The reason he chooses to lie isn't important and you might never get to the bottom of it because he lies, so you can't believe whatever reason he may give. Incidentally, this is also why I don't think counseling would help and haven't suggested it. Successful counseling requires A) a good counselor B) total honesty and C) willingness to do the work. He's not an honest man, so I believe counseling would be a waste of time and money.

If you're staying in the marriage I think you're going to just have to accept that he lies. It's just who he is. Whenever he says XYZ you let it go in one ear and out the other unless you've verified it. If you want him to do ABC and he says he's done it, you check. If he hasn't, you either do it yourself or leave it be and accept ABC wasn't done. If you weren't there to see it, whatever "it" happens to be, and there aren't witnesses to corroborate, you just take it with a grain of salt. That kind of thing.


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## Old Newlywed (Mar 31, 2018)

Dear purgur13,

If you two are in a sort of mother-son dynamic, AND you want to stay because you love him, instead of being the mom he responds poorly to, how about being the mom he wants to please. This idea may sound crazy to some. But as I read this thread, as I am in a similar situation, that is what I decided to try. I thought I'd share. 

If your desired outcome is that he will not lie to you, don't ask him any questions. If your desired outcome is that he does his chores, understand that THAT is you goal and behave accordingly. 

Good luck, purgur13


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

My xH is a chronic liar. He’ll lie about anything and most of the time I get the sense that he truly thinks it’s normal to make stuff up and pass it on as fact. I do think part of the reason he lies is because he was raised by a very hyper critical grandmother who used to be the type who would rip your head off for the smallest misdeed, like leaving a dirty glass in the sink. She’s mellowed out quite a bit but her legacy lives on in her grandchild.

My xH though has gotten to the point that his lying is not just a defence mechanism now but is also his way of manipulating others around him. If he lies and says that he couldn’t figure out how to do something then it gets taken care of for him and boy does he love not having to worry about taking care of anything himself. He’ll also lie to feel good about himself. If he can convince you that you messed something up then he can berate you for being a dumbass and he can then showcase his superiority. 

Being exposed is something my x could not tolerate. I would get accused of being paranoid or of over reacting or something that would always leave me feeling like I was in the wrong. It took me forever to see that that was his way of not only deflecting the conversation away from him but also to “teach” me that calling him out would have negative consequences.

The level to which the lying is taken matters I guess. Trust is broken at every level but at higher levels mental abuse is introduced and serious issues arise for those being lied to. OP, only you can decide to what level you’re willing to live with.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I understand your frustration.

My husband used to lie a lot, about little and big things. I didn't realize he was lying for many years. However I was very frustrated by the outcome of his lies.

One example is that when I saw that his chores hadn't been done while I was out doing mine (5 hours of running errands) he would act like I was the craziest, meanist ***** in the world for wanting to know what he had done for 5 hours besides just mowing the lawn.

After his EA, when he wanted to come clean about other secrets in an attempt to be transparent and try to save our marriage He admitted that he used to send the children outside to play, and spend a couple of hours on the computer looking at porn. I am disgusted just typing this!

That dynamic went on for 5 years! I would run errands in town for several hours, and come home to his having done very little at home. I felt so frustrated. There was so much to do, and he refused to give an explanation as to why it wasn't done, and would act like I was a crazy ***** for being upset.

He also had a way of twisting things to get what he wanted...by telling partial truths, or denying a truth.

I saved a phone message of his years ago, because I was catching on to his lying, and when he denied saying something 4 months later, I played the phone message he left with his original statement.

Two days ago he lied about a conversation we had regarding having our daughter directly depositing her car insurance and phone payment into one of our bank accounts. (She is on our plan so she can get a discount.) He lied because our daughter was over, and he didn't want her to be upset with him for being hard nosed. He made it look like it was all my idea, and he had no idea about it prior to my bringing it up that day. Eventually he admitted that we did have the conversation weeks before, but he tried to cloud his denial by saying that we hadn't decided on which account, and that was what he didn't understand what I was saying! umph! So our daughter thinks mom is a money hungry and angry person, and dad is just going along with mom's mean plan.

The worst part of his lying is the things he says to cover up his lies and make me look bad. He acts superior, and calls me "crazy."
After he admitted that he had the conversation with me, he did not admit his initial denial, or apologize for making me look bad, or for calling me crazy.

If I divorce him, it will be because I can't trust anything coming out of his mouth, and for the mental abuse he has inflicted and continues to inflict on me when defending his lies and half truths.

I think he is that way due to some pathology, fear of being controlled by a female (stemming from his mother) or toxic shame.

Some people are lazy, fearful, and manipulative, and they lie to cover it. They should just be honest and real, and let everyone have the whole truth so they can make their own decisions regarding their own lives (if they want to live with them the way they are.)


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It does sound to me as if he is a compulsive liar. It’s a learned behavior.

He could unlearn it with help from a professional, psychologist or psychiatrist, I think.

Sadly there are a lot of people who do fall into that category of lying.

As a note, I also do think you are quite a task master, taking on the role of boss. You say things wouldn’t get done if you don’t drive him to do them. Perhaps not. 

But whether or not it’s natural for him to be a disgusting pig that dynamic you have established is a boss/slave thing. It’s pretty bad. Constant nagging is never good. I doubt he can unlearn his habit of compulsive lying in the face of all the controlling behavior.

Good luck


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Oh, something I meant to say is a psychologist can help your husband learn to understand he does lie, and how to handle it when you get upset at him for lying.

My wife suffers from pseudologia phantastica, also known as pathological lying. It’s different.

But her shrinks helped her a lot, anyway. They were invaluable. 

When I call my wife on her lies it’s not a big deal. It’s like mentioning she got some mustard on her cheek.


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