# Can I get a "hall pass?"



## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

My LD wife doesn't need or want sex. She refuses to give oral, claiming it causes lockjaw and is painful for her. So the only time we have sex is when she can't put me off any longer and feels sorry for me, on average every 6 weeks or so.

The sex itself, to be honest, sucks. I won't bore you with details, but it seems like she wants to make sure it's as unpleasant for me as it apparently is for her.

I'm to the point where I hate to even ask. I'd rather take care of myself...

So I've often wondered, why won't she just give me a hall pass?

Two things I must share about myself. First, I'm not a cheater. I've been ruthlessly faithful, even when sorely tempted by willing, attractive, available women in places my wife couldn't possibly find out about.

Second, I identify as poly, and dabbled with multiple simultaneous relationships, as well as BDSM and swinging, too, with prior girlfriends. I told my wife all about this stuff before we married, because I didn't want any secrets. She seemed intrigued, even turned on, by my "dark side." 

We went to some kinky parties and a swing club once (I watched her dance with and kiss a girl!), and talked about the possibility of having an open marriage. Ever the pragmatist, she said she was open to the possibilities, but if we had kids, she wouldn't want to put them at risk. Whatever that means...

Naturally, we had kids shortly thereafter. All talk of anything out of the ordinary came to a screeching halt.

So here I am 11 years later, not getting my needs met. 

I mean, she doesn't want sex at all, but I want it as much as possible, up to 3 to 4 times a week. 

Almost everything else about our marriage is tolerable, and if we worked at it, fixable. But I can't for the life of me figure out a better solution for our sex life.

I've done it before, so I know I could handle a secondary, simultaneous relationship. It wouldn't be "an affair" if everyone know what the deal was. (I wouldn't want to do it unless everyone was on board.)

Sigh... I mean, really, what's the big hangup!? 

"If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was." I swear I would come back every night. I would love my wife SO MUCH MORE if she would just give me a little freedom!

If she asked me for this, I would grant it in a heartbeat! I would say, "PLEASE go f*** that guy's brains out! Have a ball! Just be home by 11."

In a perfect world...


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

are you asking us to guess what your wife would say? or have you actually asked her?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So, have you asked her? 

C


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

I don't have to ask. I know what she would say. She is extremely possessive and jealous.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> I don't have to ask. I know what she would say. She is extremely possessive and jealous.


Ok, then ask yourself how long you are willing to put up with a near-sexless, lackluster marriage where none of your sexual/intimacy needs are being met.

Only you can answer that question.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I am familiar with the tenants of polyamory.

Love without limits.

Unfortunately that is a false premise.

WE only have a certain amount of receptor cell for romantic love, and love in general.

As your marriage stands right now, it is likely that your wife will be your secondary.

We don't love people the same amount, not even our kids.

Scientist can block a hormone, and the result of that is indifference. And we don't have the same amount for everyone.

What does happen when you find someone more compatible?

What happens if your bond grows stronger with her than your wife?

You have to take that into consideration.

I mean there are some anti-depressant drugs out there that can block attachments from being formed.

Have you tried to detach from your wife?

Since your not getting your needs met, try getting a separation.

When people are threatened by loss, sometimes it triggers a reaction with them.

Offer your wife the same deal too.

She may have loss attraction for you too.

She may be staying for the kids.

You might have to get some counseling.

If your wife switches you to a secondary, will you be fine with it?

How do I know the lingo, I dabbled in it myself.

Most polyamory people prefer satellite. 

They know that not allpolyamory relationship are equal.

The orbit of each relationship will be different.

You might find a new woman whose orbit will be closer to you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

My first wife wasn't interested in sex. After years of trying to find a solution, I divorced her. Why don't you try that? It works far better than an open marriage, too - though I've done that very successfully in a GOOD relationship. In a troubled relationship, it usually either postpones the end or accelerates it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Open is off the table. But you do have a serious problem. A sexless marriage is almost as bad as infidelity and it is abusive in my book. Does she resent you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening HiLibido
are you able to talk to her about this. Does she say why she doesn't want sex?

If you can't talk, please try marriage counseling. 

She is LD so she is VERY unlikely to agree to an open relationship. If she won't try counseling, you have the usual 3 choices:

Leave, cheat, live like a monk. Having been in a long LD/HD relationship, I would not fault you for choosing any of those .


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Although it may have intrigued her and she may have dabbled with you prior to the kids, it seems pretty apparent that you wife doesn't swing toward an open marriage.

At the same time, I don't think this justifies going cruising for something on the side. If you feel that certain terms were allowable for such a lifestyle when you were first married, then you ought to revisit that with her especially if you feel that you have been misled.

But I suppose you ought to decide what to do if wife says that she will never be into polyamorism or says that having a mistress would be unacceptable to her...it is within your free choice to say that it is a dealbreaker for you just as an open marriage may be a dealbreaker for her. However, I am sure you can probably imagine the cascading consequences involved with going separate ways...so I guess you need to weigh it out.

Her not meeting basic sexual needs is a whole other issue and ought to be addressed as well. It may serve you to try to back off on some of the intensity and just explain to her how no sexual activity makes you feel...for if you show some vulnerability, she may better explain what is going on.

The lockjaw thing, i feel however, is probably not an excuse. My wife has been very inclined in the past to perform, but too painful for her. In addition, I wonder if your described needs may be intimidating the hell out of her and she feels she won't be able to perform to your satisfaction. That can be a libido killer.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Just cheat and be done with it.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Hilibido - there are many many of us on here in similar positions. Some divorce, some stay and put up with it because staying with their children means more to them than sex and some have affairs.

The reason I think your wife won't give you a 'hall pass' is also because it will mean she will have to face up to and ACCEPT that she is not providing you with what any 'normal' wife should do.

- I am assuming that you do your 'share' of housework etc, run baths for her, give her massages and respect etc.

Neither do I think wanting sex 3-4 times a week is unreasonable. 
I know this is easier said than done, but your wife MUST and accept what your needs are and you hers...a compromise must be reached otherwise it will only push you further apart and you will resent each other.

Only you can decide what you want. There will be people on here who will tell you that you must divorce (or atleast separate) before you have an affair....of that you must be honest with your wife and tell her.
If only life were that simple!

If, say, a female work colleague showed a bit of interest in you...smiled, said good morning, asked how you were etc you would end up having an affair with her. Yes its wrong but you are human.

You might find that if the whole issue of sex in your marriage is removed (because you are getting it elsewhere) the non sexual part of your marriage may actually improve.

All I will say though is that if you do have an affair, do not mention it on here because for a far few people on here everything is black and white....no grey.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Thanks for all the feedback.

Most of it I've heard before. But some is new and presents interesting fresh perspectives. I thank you for that.

I do the lion's share of the housework, for what it's worth. When she asks me to rub her back, I do. When I ask her to rub my back, she sometimes snickers and laughs it off, but occasionally she will do it.

I am all about communication. I try to initiate conversations regularly. She doesn't want to talk. Usually she gets upset merely at the thought of talking about in-depth stuff. There's never a good time. So we just keep coasting.

We did MC years ago, shortly after we married. The situation was different then, and I guess it helped a little, but not so much that I would want to go back. Having been to couples counseling with this wife, my previous wife, and a live-in mate prior to that, I can predict how it would go. She would feel even more pressure than she does already to "take care of my needs" and when she feels pressured, she pushes back. Which is unpleasant in the short term, and won't get me where I want to go in the long run.

I'm not the cheating kind. It's highly unlikely I would have an affair, even if a golden opportunity presented itself. But I AM the kind who will do what is allowed within the confines of mutual understanding.

Yes, it's possible that my taking a mistress with my wife's knowledge and consent would mean the end of my marriage, eventually. But I'm of the mind that my marriage is already heading in that direction. So why can't I have some fun in the mean time?!

If getting some on the side would make ME happier, wouldn't that make US happier by extension? I wouldn't feel the need to pressure my wife for sex. She would feel less stressed. I would be less stressed. The kids would be less stressed. And so on.

It's the perfect solution, IMO. If only she weren't so possessive!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Well, you have two problems. The first is getting her agreement for an open marriage. BTW, that goes both ways, so she may decide to check out the alternatives too - and may have a LOT more success than you. Wouldn't that suck? 

The second problem is finding someone who will have a purely sexual relationship or FWB with you. You won't cheat on your wife, but how will you find partners if you carry your ethics into your search? Despite all the affairs that seem to happen all the time, how do you find someone who will settle for what you're offering, especially if you're being honest with them up front? I suppose the ONS type isn't so hard if you can do those (I won't), and really does not require any disclosure. I have an open relationship, so I have some experience here, and to find an ongoing partner honestly requires a lot of luck and can take a lot of time and effort (depending on how you go about it).


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

My wife is like an ostrich too....buries her head in the sand rather than face up to issues, deal with them and move on.

We also did the MC thing but as soon as the MC started talking about the importance of sex in marriage my wife simply stopped going. Instead of deealing with the issue she put her head in teh sand hoping it would all go away.

If the net result of you being happier is a generally happier household and marriage....how you get to be 'happier' is up to you.

Just remember - you are human and have needs.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Why does this feel like one of those threads about bad boys and nice guys except the genders are reversed?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Nothing can change a LD person into a HD faster than a good old fashioned DIVORCE. If the OP does this, he will likely find that
his shrew only was a LD as long at he was her only option.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I think no matter what, humans are amazing in that if they want justification for something they can find it...and if not...create it. But the true rub is found within cause and effect...what will be the consequences of what you choose.

I know this is not where your mind is at, but I suggest a different perspective on marriage, such as what Gary Thomas writes in his book Sacred Marriage...of course that predisposes the reader may hold certain religious beliefs. But overall, our modern emphasis that marriages are supposed to create happiness is perhaps the problem. An overemphasis upon your entitlement to abundant sex in marriage may be the very thing tearing it apart.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Highlibicdo
The basic problem you are facing is that in general a LD person at a very basic level does not believe that sex is important. They think that the HD person is somehow broken - an "old goat" or Svut. They see your desire for sex as a bit pathetic. "Normal" people don't need sex all the time. You've watched too many movies, too much porn or whatever.

So, asking for an open marriage will almost certainly fail - you are asking to continue your irrational and broken behavior of wanting too much sex.


Once in a while the LD person will somehow come to realize that *they* are the ones way off the curve. That "normal" loving couples do have sex more than once ever few months. 

Most of the time though they never realize. They never come to sites like this to discuss the issue because THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A PROBLEM. 

After 25 years of almost no sex, things suddenly got better with my wife. Declined again, now in the last month are improving - but still immeasurably better than for most of our marriage.

I don't know why, but it changed when I had a conversation with her. I was intending that conversation to end with telling her I wanted a divorce - I was less than a minute away from saying that when she changed. 

It wasn't a "threat". I explained how unhappy I was. If she had responded that it was my problem, I was going to ask for a divorce - and from that request there was no stepping back. 

Maybe that is the only way.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

askari said:


> Hilibido - there are many many of us on here in similar positions. Some divorce, some stay and put up with it because staying with their children means more to them than sex and some have affairs.
> 
> The reason I think your wife won't give you a 'hall pass' is also because it will mean she will have to face up to and ACCEPT that she is not providing you with what any 'normal' wife should do.
> 
> ...


I would say after a years period of being continually starved for sex, affection and intimacy, if you want to open it instead of leaving fair game. 

However if the wife was always getting it on the side and this was the real reason the husbands needs weren't met, he needs to weigh that equation.

He might say "i'm not going to finance John to have sex with you, now if he pays some bills around here maybe I could live with it"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Look Hilibido...
> 
> Before you go out and get yourself a hall pass, there are now certain cultures in which men far outnumber available women. In the cultures, engineers have dedicated the lives to solving the problems you face and have come up with things that they claim to be a far better physical experience than being with a women (obviously lacking emotional connection which you may already share with your wife).
> 
> For example try googling Tenga and that should point you in a direction to start searching...


How could a culture have men outnumbering women, when men die in wars, go to jail and end up homeless?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Lila said:


> Unfortunately, OP is a stay at home dad and his wife is the breadwinner.
> 
> Hilibido - After reading your other thread, I take back my post that you ask your wife for a "Hall Pass". She'll probably file for divorce.
> 
> ...


Ohh, thats a tough position to be in. Personally I belive a stay at home dad can do it in a masculine way, but he must maintain his appearance and be very attractive to the opposite sex.

If he does not have this, he is almost certainly to be looked down on and cheated on. Now if he buffs up to stud like levels and well dressed and managed, he will be like a "trophy husband" at home, and they do exist.

We have a member here "ConanHub" who says his wife fire subsided a bit for him, and he had to re-earn her viewpoint that he is her Alpha male, he did it and the benefits increased.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Get a job.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> I don't have to ask. I know what she would say. She is extremely possessive and jealous.


Not wanting you to have an affair is possessive and jealous now? lol


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Well, you have two problems. The first is getting her agreement for an open marriage. BTW, that goes both ways, so she may decide to check out the alternatives too - and may have a LOT more success than you. Wouldn't that suck?
> 
> The second problem is finding someone who will have a purely sexual relationship or FWB with you. You won't cheat on your wife, but how will you find partners if you carry your ethics into your search? Despite all the affairs that seem to happen all the time, how do you find someone who will settle for what you're offering, especially if you're being honest with them up front? I suppose the ONS type isn't so hard if you can do those (I won't), and really does not require any disclosure. I have an open relationship, so I have some experience here, and to find an ongoing partner honestly requires a lot of luck and can take a lot of time and effort (depending on how you go about it).


It sucks to have to consider but if your not having sex...

Anyway in my situation, I found it was easier for the affair partner or person on the side to think they where "cheating" than they were helping out your marital situation.

Yes, it sucks. It's the psychology of someone thinking they are stealing what is someone elses.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My very LD wife offered me a "Hall Pass."

I declined her offer and carried on tending to my own, solitary, needs.

A "Hall Pass" is a daft idea, in my opinion. Too dangerous to a marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My very LD wife offered me a "Hall Pass."
> 
> I declined her offer and carried on tending to my own, solitary, needs.
> 
> A "Hall Pass" is a daft idea, in my opinion. Too dangerous to a marriage.


If it's not really a marriage to begin with, then danger is a moot point, IMO.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Get a job.


AMEN!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

HiLibido said:


> If getting some on the side would make ME happier, wouldn't that make US happier by extension? I wouldn't feel the need to pressure my wife for sex. She would feel less stressed. I would be less stressed. The kids would be less stressed. And so on.
> 
> It's the perfect solution, IMO. If only she weren't so possessive!


I completely understand where you're coming from and how you feel. But, if you think the possesiveness is some unfortunate quirk coincidental to your wife's LD, you're not seeing this situation clearly.

I'm guessing you're 40ish at the most. If you're a decent guy you can probably find someone atractive to meet your needs - maybe not to just hook up with here and there, but more likely someone willing to woo you and try to be your new partner. And, your wife knows it.

Your wife is neither attracted to you nor the type to honor her vows or you would not be having your present sex life. But, she values the relationship (or she would be gone by now). So, having more sex with you is unpleasant and stressful. And, the thought of doing without whatever it is you provide is also unpleasant and stressful.

You're a loyal guy. She wants you at a certain distance but wants to make sure you stick around. What is the easiest way to have that? That attitude will deter you from looking and nobody else will want to be around that. From a strictly logical perspective it is the easiest way to get what she wants.

Regardless of whether you are chasing tail, you need to put a stop to this. It does nothing but feed her entitlement mindset and makes you miserable. Insist on being treated better and if she wants to entice you to stay, she can do it with "carrot" instead of "stick".


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## ellaenchanted (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm really sorry if I seem to come across as blunt in my post but in my opinion I don't think this has anything to do with your wife being LD, I just think your wife doesn't respect you... Why? Because you're a SAHD! 
I don't really know why you stay at home or what your arrangement is but I solely believe if you got a job she would probably respect you more! = sex 
Only you know what goes on in your life and I could be wrong but the reasons I'm assuming you get no sex because you're unemployed, the reason I think this is because I was in a really long term relationship with a man that didn't have a job and "stayed at home", we made the agreement but the only reason why I worked is because I had a career and he did not, I was a hard worker and he was the complete opposite. Now I've read your other thread and I think that you're making excuses in regards to not getting a job. 
Trust me, if you get a job, earn an income somehow your life will be much easier. 

- your wife will probably start respecting you more and will probably want to have sex with you (becomes attracted to you) 

- if your sex life doesn't get better than at least you can get out of the marriage without being financially fvcked... 

Call me narrow minded but men are supposed to work, that's what makes you a man, to provide to your family... I know that you look after the kids and do all the house work but I honestly think the tables should turn. 

I'm sorry I'm not judging you and that's just my opinion


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I am familiar with the tenants of polyamory.
> 
> Love without limits.


To the degree poly has any "tenets", you clearly are not familiar with them.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

ellaenchanted said:


> Call me narrow minded but men are supposed to work, that's what makes you a man, to provide to your family...


Yes, you are narrow minded. This is 2014 for gods sake!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> Yes, you are narrow minded. This is 2014 for gods sake!



These words would have a lot of punch behind them if you weren't, you know, sexless and all. As things sit, you're a pretty good example for her words.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> These words would have a lot of punch behind them if you weren't, you know, sexless and all. As things sit, you're a pretty good example for her words.


Op I think this only matters if you live in Alabama. Single income wife here just sent kids to lug wood so DH and I could get it on. It is not about being a SAHD.


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## ellaenchanted (Sep 7, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> Yes, you are narrow minded. This is 2014 for gods sake!



Sorry if I've offended you, but you do have to keep in mind that your posting on an Internet forum where hundreds of people will read your posts and you will get replies from all kinds of people with different opinions and mentalities so it's kind of bound to happen....


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> Yes, you are narrow minded. This is 2014 for gods sake!


SAHD may be considered a socially acceptable, perhaps necessary lifestyle. That doesn't mean it is desirable.

Don't be so defensive that you can't separate out the issue of attraction. Ask yourself if she would respect you more if you were the sole provider for the family. The rest springs from respect.

Ella, you speak the truth. Until he does everything he knows how to do to attract her he is making excuses for choosing not to grow. Man up HiLib and get with the hunting and gathering.


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## NorCalMan (Dec 14, 2011)

I have a close friend (female) whose husband was in a severe auto accident and left partially paralyzed. She was aware of my wife and I having problems and were on the verge of separation. After quite a bit of time she would make insinuations regarding us getting together to “scratch each other’s itch”. I never took her up on it and was successful in improving my marriage. Ran into her at a business ****tail party and was introduced to her “friend” who she was hanging all over – then later seeing them in the parking lot deeply kissing as they said goodbye and got in their separate cars. Found out later that her friend is married and coaches her kids. Also had a married friend who I saw pulling into a local motel with an attractive gal … later he told me they met online and she travels here from out of state and they hook up when she’s here. He said that their spouses were aware of the arrangements and no one was cheating. I think there is quite a bit of this type thing going on these days.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

NorCalMan said:


> He said that their spouses were aware of the arrangements and no one was cheating. I think there is quite a bit of this type thing going on these days.


Maybe in NorCal, but not here in the deep south!


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## NorCalMan (Dec 14, 2011)

Your probably correct ... the more liberal an area the greater percentage of extramarital sex, BDSM, strip clubs etc.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening HiLibido
> are you able to talk to her about this. Does she say why she doesn't want sex?


Although it is difficult to find the time to talk about serious topics, we had a kid-free day this past weekend, and I broached the topic. I flat out asked her what's going on, and what we can do about it. (No, I did not ask for a hall pass.)

She says she wants to have sex, but there's never time for it. She says she thinks she's premenopausal. She says it tickles when I touch her. She claims her thyroid is part of the issue. (She's taking medication for it already, and has for years. Not helping much, I suppose...)

She also told me that she feels that whenever I want to have sex, I need to "make it some big production." That I feel I have to "take care of her" and then she has to reciprocate. She says she's so busy and stressed from her job, that she doesn't want all that. She says she wishes I would just initiate without asking (so she doesn't have to make any decisions) and then just "take care of" myself "without worrying about" her orgasming. IOW, I should just "bend her over the bed" and have my way with her.

I told her that that kind of sex is fun once in a while, but if that's all we ever do, I might as well just masturbate. I said that I want a willing partner. An active participant. I said I get tired having to do all the work, and it would be nice if she would initiate sometimes, if she would touch me without my asking her. I told her I have needs, and they're not being met.

She said she would try to be better. 

I asked her directly if she doesn't respect me or find me attractive or sexy any more because I'm a SAHD. Pursuant to this comment:



ellaenchanted said:


> I'm really sorry if I seem to come across as blunt in my post but in my opinion I don't think this has anything to do with your wife being LD, I just think your wife doesn't respect you... Why? Because you're a SAHD!
> I don't really know why you stay at home or what your arrangement is but I solely believe if you got a job she would probably respect you more! = sex
> Only you know what goes on in your life and I could be wrong but the reasons I'm assuming you get no sex because you're unemployed, the reason I think this is because I was in a really long term relationship with a man that didn't have a job and "stayed at home", we made the agreement but the only reason why I worked is because I had a career and he did not, I was a hard worker and he was the complete opposite. Now I've read your other thread and I think that you're making excuses in regards to not getting a job.
> Trust me, if you get a job, earn an income somehow your life will be much easier.
> ...


She demanded to know WHO would suggest such a preposterous idea! She claimed that my staying at home, taking care of the kids, the meals, the cleaning, etc, makes her life so much easier, and she appreciates it tremendously. She sees how good I am with the kids, and says that makes me extremely sexy in her eyes.

In short, she went on and on AND ON about how WRONG the idea was! So there's that...

Progress report:

An hour after our little chat, she came to me freshly showered with nothing on but a robe, and asked if I wanted to take advantage of our kid-free house. At that moment I was still annoyed from our talk, and frankly, I've been under the weather the past few days, and I had a headache and a stuffy head, so I said not now.

This morning she cuddled with me a little after the alarm went off, but before it was time to get up. That was really nice.

Maybe there's hope yet...


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

"*An hour after our little chat, she came to me freshly showered with nothing on but a robe, and asked if I wanted to take advantage of our kid-free house. At that moment I was still annoyed from our talk, and frankly, I've been under the weather the past few days, and I had a headache and a stuffy head, so I said not now."*


What? You've got to be kidding! You turned her down? You may very well be waiting a lot longer for her to initiate again my friend. You blew it!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> An hour after our little chat, she came to me freshly showered with nothing on but a robe, and asked if I wanted to take advantage of our kid-free house. At that moment I was still annoyed from our talk, and frankly, I've been under the weather the past few days, and *I had a headache and a stuffy head, so I said not now.*


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> She sees how good I am with the kids, and says that makes me extremely sexy in her eyes.


Extremely sexy....just not enough to, you know, have sex with you. Actions > Words



HiLibido said:


> An hour after our little chat, she came to me freshly showered with nothing on but a robe, and asked if I wanted to take advantage of our kid-free house. At that moment I was still annoyed from our talk, and frankly, I've been under the weather the past few days, and I had a headache and a stuffy head, so I said not now.


Passive aggressive much? Epic fail.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Extremely sexy....just not enough to, you know, have sex with you. Actions > Words
> 
> 
> 
> Passive aggressive much? Epic fail.


Judgmental much?

Jesus, there's no pleasing you people.

It felt like mercy sex. A "pity f*ck." Just doing her wifely duty. 

F*ck that! 

I've waited this long, I can wait until she actually WANTS to do it, rather than offering to after being reminded.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Heed WOM--Actions > Words

You know what she said. Many women would say they want the man to clean, change diapers and do laundry. Still only pity sex. Look deeper. Women's feelings and attraction are not as intuitive as we men might hope. To take it a step further, your wife does not feel like she is lying to you. Being a SAHD DOES make her life easier, and she may use the word sexy...but it doesn't make her panties wet.

Hang in there HiLib, these are tough things to hear. My first post ever in 2011 I asked if anyone had a wife that actually "made love to them". Changed my world and tipped me on my head but important to hear. The only post I ever deleted. And btw, she does now.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

HiLibido said:


> ...... and frankly, I've been under the weather the past few days, and I had a headache and a stuffy head, so I said not now.


:banghead:



> Maybe there's hope yet...


I very much doubt it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> Judgmental much?
> 
> *Jesus, there's no pleasing you people.*
> 
> ...


What do you prefer, to be popular on here or do you want to improve your marriage? 

I'm going to agree with the others who believe that your wife isn't being as truthful with you as she should. While some will chastise you for being a SAHD, I won't go there because I think even a SAHD can still be a hot and sexy lover to the wife earning the money. 



> *She also told me that she feels that whenever I want to have sex, I need to "make it some big production."* That I feel I have to "take care of her" and then she has to reciprocate. She says she's so busy and stressed from her job, that she doesn't want all that. *She says she wishes I would just initiate without asking* (so she doesn't have to make any decisions) and then just "take care of" myself "without worrying about" her orgasming. IOW, *I should just "bend her over the bed" and have my way with her.*


Looks like your wife gave you the blueprint to make you more attractive to her again. You received a gift. Question is, are you going to do something about it or are you going to only be happy if you get sex exactly the way you want it? FYI, your way is not working.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It all depends on the frequency, intensity, and sincerity of the "gift". Otherwise next month's "gift" will be just as meaningless as this month's "gift".


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

She is telling you that she WANTS you to be dominant in the bedroom!

She is telling you this and you think it is pity sex? She wants a confidant, self assured man who takes what he wants and if you do it right- she WILL be satisfied. 

There are positions that leave your hands free and ask her what feels good. Have fun exploring each other when you know your bodies better (or if you don't- learn from websites and books.)

If she is really that tired do it "The lazy way" (Me and DH might have made that name up.) Basically spooning with an orgasm thown in as a bonus. Just ravage her, man, I don't believe you turned her down!


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What do you prefer, to be popular on here or do you want to improve your marriage?


It's not about being popular; it's about getting meaningful support instead of insults.

To those of you offering support and suggestions, I truly thank you. You are being helpful and this is cathartic.

You snarky peeps can kiss my *ss.



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Looks like your wife gave you the blueprint to make you more attractive to her again. You received a gift. Question is, are you going to do something about it or are you going to only be happy if you get sex exactly the way you want it? FYI, your way is not working.


It didn't seem like a gift at all, it seemed like a bunch of excuses. To wit:

- She says she wants to, but she never does. 

- She never initiates, and she almost always brushes me off when I try to initiate. 

- She did try to initiate that day, when she knew I wasn't feeling well and it was 50/50 if I would want to. (FWIW, we were both OK with nothing happening, even if people on here weren't!) The next morning, she cuddled with me, which I thought was nice, but then she told me later she "was trying to initiate," but kept falling back asleep. Her snooze alarm went off 3 or 4 times before she gave up and got out of bed.

- She says she wants me to be dominant, but she is FAR from submissive. I know her body well, and know how to drive her wild and make her beg for release, but she gets mad at me for doing that. Literally, she gets angry at me!

- She says she doesn't want me to "make a big production" out of it, but then she mentions how she likes it when I tie her up and spank her. Excuse me, but that's making a big production out of it. (FYI, we have a "toy bag" full of adult toys; rope, cuffs, whips, paddles, you name it. Clue: I have to do ALL THE FREAKIN' WORK!)

- She says "just worry about yourself", but whenever I do that, she ends up frustrated and unable to fall asleep, and she lets me know the next day how annoyed she was all night, lying there awake while I sawed logs.

I remember when we first got together, and the first year of our marriage. We couldn't keep our hands off each other. We didn't have to ask "do you want to do it?", we just looked at each other and knew, and just DID IT! We were BOTH willing participants. We took turns "doing" each other.

Why can't we go back to that?

I think the real reason may be that she feels fat and unattractive. (She mentioned this during our talk, but I may not have included it above.) So perhaps she can't enjoy sex because she thinks I'm judging her as harshly as she judges herself (I've given her no reason to think so, and plenty of reason to think the opposite). If this is a turn-off, she may prefer just avoiding it altogether. 

She has put on some weight after having two kids, and doesn't eat right. I, on the other hand, have lost 40 lbs in the last 3 years, and I eat very healthy now. She may also feel guilty in light of all this, and perhaps inadequate to boot. 

I have no idea how to combat that, other than to keep telling her I love her and think she's beautiful, which I do, have done, and will continue to do.

So, "my way" may not be working, but I'm not sure exactly what "her way" really is, other than "not." 

I will try to keep the lines of communication open; I'm hopeful, and encouraged, but remain pessimistic. 

She told me today she has a "special treat" planned for me tomorrow morning. Hopefully it will be more than just cuddling.

Hey, maybe it will be a hall pass! LOL! 

(j/k)


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

badsanta said:


> OK Hilibido,
> 
> While I disagree with you on many aspects, you updated your thread after taking some time to let things happen in the real world. That shows you are persistent, for which I have to admire you for that.
> 
> You want serious help and not just a bunch of nonsense and judgement. Meanwhile you stand up in the face of being ridiculed here. OK, you've earned it from me.


Yes, I'm in it to win it. Thanks...



badsanta said:


> One thing you have to be careful about your wife is that you can NOT negotiate for her to desire you more. You have to try and find ways to get her desire to RESPOND to you. It will take some work (persistence anyone?) and patience which seem to be qualities you have.
> 
> Another thing you have to be careful of is forcing you wife to enjoy herself. If you want to be assertive you can encourage her to try new things by leading with a great deal of confidence, but you have to let her follow and you have to be patient enough to get her to follow.


Makes sense. I know I can't force her to do anything. I started out this rel'ship encouraging her to try new things, and she did, for several months. If I could get that spark back, it would be great.

I probably need to work on the confidence thing...



badsanta said:


> It is VERY MUCH like chasing a kitten around the house, as in they will not let you catch them if you really WANT to catch them. You have to almost not want to catch them and they will be right there in your lap purring and will not go away (which can be annoying if you only want them to do that only when you want to catch them as well as opposed to being busy with other things or not feeling well, just say'n). Seriously, think of a kitty cat, show it something exciting and once you've got some attention, RUN and you'll have some excitement as she chases you! The point being is that you can't know about something that women like to only shove it in front of them and then sit there and get upset that they do not get all excited about it. AND you can't get upset that they don't come running to tackle and scratch at you if they don't have a hint that there is something new and fun you've got!
> 
> Women also like mystery. That is why that book 101 Nights of Great Romance book is bound without a trim so that you have to literally rip the pages open in secret to find out the instructions. After reading the book most guys think they still have to follow instructions and do not get the point of just doing something new and mysterious to romance the wife.


OK, you kinda lost me there. I read through this 3 times, and I think I know what you're saying. I've never compared women to kittens before, but in a weird way, it DOES make sense.

Would love to hear some female reactions to that...

Ironically, you pulled an image that looks EXACTLY like our cat! LOL!



badsanta said:


> Other than that, communicate, communicate, communicate! Or is that Listen, Listen, Listen??


Yes, with this I agree completely. I do listen, but as you may know, sometimes with women, you have to read between the lines. She doesn't talk much (about, you know, important stuff. MORE than happy to discuss celebrity gossip. Ack!)

And often, when I try to communicate where I'm at, she has a tendency to cut me off and say it's not a good time, or she "already knows" what I'm talking about (before I've even told her!), and so on. It can be a challenge.

But I do have some progress to report. The Negative Nancy's will love this:

This morning she actually followed through with her promise! She woke me up around 5:15, started cuddling, proceeding to fondling, got me all hot and bothered, then got on top and, well, you know... :smthumbup:

I literally can't remember the last time she initiated and actually followed through. That's the 3rd time we've had sex since the first of October, but even tho we're still on a "once a month or so" schedule, I think we may have a breakthrough here. We have a date night Friday, with one kid away on a sleepover. If I can get the other kid out of the house somehow, I'm going to try some light bondage and spanking (per her request).

See if I can get her desire to RESPOND to me...

Wish me luck!


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Me-Contr...8&qid=1418229884&sr=8-1&keywords=just+f+ck+me


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

In OP's defense, he did state that he's ok with taking control sometimes but would like her to initiate occasionally. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for her to step up occasionally and initiate in a way that's actually detectable by him. Neither party should have it 100% their way every time.

HOWEVER, HiLibido--Your wife is clearly outside of her comfort zone right now with the initiation. When she does make the effort, it's likely costing her some serious emotional energy to do it. Rejecting that when it happens is only going to set you back in the long run. She needs the positive reinforcement of you accepting graciously when it's offered to keep her in a frame of mind to be able to do it--same as you.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

You funny!


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## Vanille (Dec 13, 2014)

> If getting some on the side would make ME happier, wouldn't that make US happier by extension? I wouldn't feel the need to pressure my wife for sex. She would feel less stressed. I would be less stressed. The kids would be less stressed. And so on.


This is the worst logic I have ever heard.

Anyway, I've read through the thread and I am glad that you're communicating, even if you haven't brought up the open marriage subject. When she initiated it I don't think it was pity sex, she was trying to do something to improve the relationship after hearing about how it was affecting you. I hope you continue to work on it together. I do disagree with some of the other posters that say just have an affair. If you want to sleep with someone else get a divorce first, it's the decent thing to do.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Vanille said:


> This is the worst logic I have ever heard.


Clearly you never listen to American politicians...



Vanille said:


> When she initiated it I don't think it was pity sex, she was trying to do something to improve the relationship after hearing about how it was affecting you.


Perhaps, but either way, it was just bad timing.



Vanille said:


> I do disagree with some of the other posters that say just have an affair. If you want to sleep with someone else get a divorce first, it's the decent thing to do.


I ignore such comments. If I wanted to have an affair, I would have done so already. I'm not the cheating kind.

In fact, I'm the kind who likes open lines of communication and kinky sex. We have spotty communication, and barely have any sex at all. [Update: last night we had our tryst for January. Still right around once a month.]

Getting permission to be with someone else (the proverbial hall pass) would satisfy my needs for honesty and more sex, possibly my desire for kinky sex (hopefully, anyway), as well as my desire to stay married and maintain my family unity.

I understand what people say about the risks, but it's one thing to RISK ending your relationship by f*cking someone else (with or without permission) and possibly falling in love, it's quite another to ENSURE ending your relationship by filing for divorce.

As I see it, it would make me happier and take pressure off her to perform more than she wants or is able to. Less pressure to please me should equal less stress, which _could_ make her happier... if she could get past the whole jealousy thing.

FWIW, if the tables were turned, I would be all for it. She jokes about certain celebrities being her boyfriend. "That Adam Levine, he's such a hunk -- I would jump him in a heartbeat." I respond, "Go for it. Please. Just come home to me afterwards." She smiles, clearly amused at such banter. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "All I want is a freakin hall pass! And you can have one too!"

Sigh...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Hello--

There is a way you can make the SAHD thing work for you-- start spending time with all the hot SAHMs.

I am not saying you should actually try to hook up with them.

But if you casually start mentioning to your wife that you had a playdate with Billy and his SAHM (who your wife knows is hot), and Timmy and his hot mom, I think this will benefit you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Easier said than done. I was not a SAHD but Heaven forbid the SAHM's would acknowledge me let alone talk to me at the playground or PTO or what have you. Maybe the age gap - we had kids late - but it's not as easy for new SAHM's to break into the cliques, let alone SAHD's.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I would divorce her. There's no way I could live in a sexless marriage. Complete and total dealbreaker. I would divorce, not cheat.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> There is a way you can make the SAHD thing work for you-- start spending time with all the hot SAHMs.
> 
> I am not saying you should actually try to hook up with them.
> 
> But if you casually start mentioning to your wife that you had a playdate with Billy and his SAHM (who your wife knows is hot), and Timmy and his hot mom, I think this will benefit you.


This is already a big part of my life. Some of the moms around here are really hot, too, and the menfolk love to talk smack about them. One particularly attractive (not a SAHM, but single and clearly horny) mom recently moved in nearby, and we've already done several play dates.

The guys all agree I'll be the first to bed her. (Not gonna happen, but it's fun to joke about.)

My wife trusts me too much (and rightly so) to let this worry her. So there's no benefit there.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

OK, apparently something I said got to her. 

She surprised me last Saturday with a babysitter and a trip to a nearby town for dinner at my favorite restaurant and an overnight hotel stay. She's been planning this for some time. All her girlfriends were in on it. They were all quite proud of themselves for keeping the secret till the last minute, and of her for making it happen.

Yes, there was sex in the evening, then sex again in the morning. Twice within 12 hours! 

Wow! That makes three times this month. We're on a roll!

She says she knows she's been neglecting me, but she wants me to know that I'm a priority. She loves how I take care of the kids, meals, the house, the yard. And she predicts the next couple of months will require her to spend even longer hours at work, and that it's going to get worse before it gets better...but she wants to make sure I'm happy. 

IOW, my happiness is now at the top of her list, if it wasn't before.

All of that is great. But...

Why does it have to be such a big effort for her? Why can't she just "reach out and touch" me on a more regular basis? Why can't she WANT it as much as I do?

It's almost like she thinks one weekend, one 12 hour stretch with two PIV sessions, can make up for all that neglect that came before, and all the neglect I can expect in the weeks or months to come...

Sigh.

Since this is the "sex" forum, let me add some details...

She's not that much fun to fvck, to be blunt. Her idea of foreplay is to fondle me with her hands, while making weird, childish comments like about how soft my skin is, ("Do you use lotion down there?") and why isn't it hard already ("I mean, we're naked and in bed, isn't that enough?!") and "maybe we should name it." Really?!

Then she wants to lie back and have me do all the work, which I have to do, because frankly if I don't, I'm SOL. But of course missionary doesn't work because I go too deep and it hurts, so she wants to turn over and have me do her from behind, because that hits her just right. Which is fine with me, except that again, I'm doing ALL the work.

You know, it's nice to "be done to" once in a while. I always have to "do" her.

I try to be an attentive lover. I try to give pleasure with my hands, my kisses, to make her wet, etc. She doesn't want to allow the time for that! ("It's 10 o'clock and I've been up all day, and had half a bottle of wine. You better get on with it or I'm going to fall asleep.") 

Hey, I had the other half of that bottle, I've been up just as long, and I'm ready to go out after dinner and THEN come back to the hotel for some fun times, but noooo, forget that! Not to mention I'm 8 years older than her, for chrissakes!

And forget oral. I actually asked, and we talked about it. She refuses to even kiss it, much less lick it or suck it. Says her jaw hurts too much. Apparently she has no clue how much men love that. How much *I* love it. And what a shame, she had very thoughtfully trimmed herself for me down there, but I demurred from going downtown, since she was very clear she wouldn't return the favor.

And best of all, even though she planned this outing for weeks, it never even occurred to her to bring any of our toys. No ropes or cuffs. No paddles or floggers. No blindfolds or satin sashes. Not even a dildo or vibrator. For that matter, not even a tube of lube! Such a planner, that girl! She says, "What should I have brought? I mean, say what?! We bought a lot of them together! I would have brought all of it, just to have all the bases covered!

So, in sum:
- We had a great night out, but it was clearly the exception. I shouldn't expect it to be a sign of anything to come.
- Nothing is going to change in the bedroom. I'm still going to have to do all the work on the rare occasions she says, "yes." 
- I can expect zero oral for the foreseeable future. 
- And the sex will continue to be boring, as it has been for the past few years.

Still fantasizing about that hall pass, to be perfectly honest. I think we'd both be happier all around.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> She's not that much fun to fvck, to be blunt. Her idea of foreplay is to fondle me with her hands, while making weird, childish comments like about how soft my skin is, ("Do you use lotion down there?") and why isn't it hard already ("I mean, we're naked and in bed, isn't that enough?!") and "maybe we should name it." Really?!
> 
> Then she wants to lie back and have me do all the work, which I have to do, because frankly if I don't, I'm SOL. But of course missionary doesn't work because I go too deep and it hurts, so she wants to turn over and have me do her from behind, because that hits her just right. Which is fine with me, except that again, I'm doing ALL the work.


Sigh. So I see you've met my wife....

And what's the deal with the stupid cutsie names for it. That kind of thing just turns me off. Why isn't it hard yet? Because I'm bored to death and you just called my manhood little freddy.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> OK, apparently something I said got to her.
> 
> She surprised me last Saturday with a babysitter and a trip to a nearby town for dinner at my favorite restaurant and an overnight hotel stay. She's been planning this for some time. All her girlfriends were in on it. They were all quite proud of themselves for keeping the secret till the last minute, and of her for making it happen.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying. Your wife sounds a bunch like mine. I have been married for almost 30 years.

What I do:

1) I bring the toys if we are going somewhere private overnight
2) I bring lingerie that I want her to wear
3) I give her oral sex even though she probably won't reciprocate.
4) I plan nights out and nights away because she rarely if ever would
5) When in the missionary position, I roll us over to get her on top if I think I am doing too much of the work.
6) I bring the lube (ie coconut oil)

I do these things because I want to have fun. I want sex to be crazy sometimes. If I do the work, it quite often happens.

*I do all these things because I know my wife.* 

In the past, I have left these things up to her. To get her to put in the effort. What happens is we have either no sex or boring sex. 

Would I like her to be the one to want it like I do and put in the effort that I do .... for sure. 

I have decided I am staying with her. I have also decided to make the best of the situation. 

PS. What I have found recently is that if I initiate 5 or 10 minutes after we have had sex, the second time around she is much wilder and less inhibited. Not easy for a 50 year old like me, but I can still manage.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

On one level I get where you are coming from. She made it seem like a big deal, but it really wasn't.

On the other hand, it seems like it was a big deal for her.

You've got two different paths you could take.

One is just to dismiss it, find everything wrong with it, focus on how it's too little and assume she'll go back to her regular ways. This attitude certainly seems logical, but does not seem to really get you anywhere.

The other approach is to be positive about it. Recognize that, even though it wasn't perfect, she did make a real effort. It's a start. You could just focus on that, try to reinforce that positive behavior.

The positive path requires an investment by you that you might lose out on. It would be disappointing if this really does not go any further.

I think it is worth making though because she did take a step toward you. She took a risk. You should be brave enough to do so too.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> *I do all these things because I know my wife.*


I hear you. I agree with you, except for oral. I've been going downtown for years now with no reciprocation, and I'm done with that.

And I would have brought the toys and everything else, but she sprung it on me at the last minute. She had already done all the packing. The sitter shows up, and she says to me, "Put on a nicer shirt, we're going out." 

I was shocked and elated to hear we were going out, and it never occurred to me to think about that stuff, nor did I even have the chance to grab anything if I had.

As for taking the initiative, that's what I've been doing for years. This thread is my cry for help after getting no response from her. Now, a little response. 

This is progress, but it's not a solution.

Thanks.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> On one level I get where you are coming from. She made it seem like a big deal, but it really wasn't.
> 
> On the other hand, it seems like it was a big deal for her.
> 
> ...


I see your point.

I don't mean to dismiss it and focus on the negatives. I was all gung-ho and positive at first. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was just more of the same ol, same ol, just at a hotel.

She made a step toward me, yes. She took a risk? No, she probably saw it as more risky to do nothing. She probably thinks (not probably, she has said as much) that I'm about to cheat on her because she doesn't put out enough.

I get the strong impression that sex is just a drag for her. She doesn't like it, doesn't want to do it, can't wait to get it over with when we do it. She does seem to like knowing she has gotten me off, but I'm sorry, I want more than just to come.

I want a lover. I would like my wife to be my lover. She used to be, 10 years ago. Not so much any more...


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sigh. So I see you've met my wife....


LOL! Sorry to hear that...



WorkingOnMe said:


> And what's the deal with the stupid cutsie names for it. That kind of thing just turns me off. Why isn't it hard yet? Because I'm bored to death and you just called my manhood little freddy.


I know, right? Why can't she understand such a simple concept? It's not an extra toe, it's not an earlobe, it's my freaking manhood! 

Love me, love my c*ck!


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HiLibido said:


> She made a step toward me, yes. She took a risk? No, she probably saw it as more risky to do nothing. She probably thinks (not probably, she has said as much) that I'm about to cheat on her because she doesn't put out enough.
> 
> 
> I want a lover. I would like my wife to be my lover. She used to be, 10 years ago. Not so much any more...


Maybe it's just semantics, but I think when someone has a general way of operating and then decides to take a different approach, she is taking a risk because it might not work out well.

Case in point, if you said, "no thanks" when she invited you to the hotel, she would have been hurt.

The point is this type of thing is not in her comfort zone. She is going to be very sensitive to any indication that doing this sort of thing is not worth it, because that will probably just confirm her underlying assumption.

Now, I am not saying that you need to do a backflip just because she planned a night out.

What I am saying is that if you want your wife to be your lover again, you have to recognize when she is doing something positive and help to build on that. If you don't want to do that, then ask yourself whether you really want to have a relationship with her. Maybe you really don't.

If you do want to repair things, what can you do to step out of your comfort zone to try to build on this connection? 

Can you try not to make it a test of her meeting your needs, but instead make it into a bridge where you can meet in the middle?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> Maybe it's just semantics, but I think when someone has a general way of operating and then decides to take a different approach, she is taking a risk because it might not work out well.
> 
> Case in point, if you said, "no thanks" when she invited you to the hotel, she would have been hurt.


There was just about ZERO chance I would say "No" to such an invite. I was fully expecting another night at home alone with the kids, and suddenly I was going out on a date to a great restaurant and certain sex. She knows I'm a horn dog. There was never any question in her mind about me going along. Her only concern was if she had kept it a secret, which she had.



Anon1111 said:


> The point is this type of thing is not in her comfort zone. She is going to be very sensitive to any indication that doing this sort of thing is not worth it, because that will probably just confirm her underlying assumption.


OK, I hear you. And I have made it clear I loved it, and I will reiterate that again soon to make sure she knows I loved it.



Anon1111 said:


> Now, I am not saying that you need to do a backflip just because she planned a night out.
> 
> What I am saying is that if you want your wife to be your lover again, you have to recognize when she is doing something positive and help to build on that. If you don't want to do that, then ask yourself whether you really want to have a relationship with her. Maybe you really don't.
> 
> ...


As I see it the problem is that SEX seems to be out of her comfort zone. Sex, and everything to do with sex. Anything that even hints at sex is iffy. I come up behind her and kiss her neck or pat her butt, she brushes me off and squirms away, because it might lead to, you know...

But when she does acquiesce, it's just boring. Oral is out, unless I'm giving it. Anal has never been on the table (not that I'm a big fan, but not even a finger? Jeez.) Foreplay is something to get over with quickly to get to the PIV, and she does what she can to get that over with quickly as well.

Tell me how I step out of my comfort zone; how do I meet that in the middle?

The way I see it, I've been out of my comfort zone for years, ever since the second baby was born. (She'll be 8 next month.)


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think you're SOL, unfortunately. Unless she's willing to try sex therapy or something, she is not going to change, because she's happy with the way things are (except for you wanting sex, of course). My ex was pretty much the same, and I tried for years (and we did try MC, at least), including everything that's been mentioned on TAM.

I finally realized that I could do nothing, and she didn't want to do anything, and when I reached that point, it was very freeing, because I could in good conscience divorce her and seek happiness with someone else. I just wish I'd come to that realization years sooner, and saved myself so much unhappiness.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> I hear you. I agree with you, except for oral. I've been going downtown for years now with no reciprocation, and I'm done with that.
> 
> And I would have brought the toys and everything else, but she sprung it on me at the last minute. She had already done all the packing. The sitter shows up, and she says to me, "Put on a nicer shirt, we're going out."
> 
> ...


Understandable that you didn't think of the toys in that situation and it would have been great if she did, but she didn't. Some guys would be offended if she did bring toys, feeling she likes the toys more than them. 

When I give my wife oral sex it is also for me. I love doing it. I love making her feel great. I wouldn't take that away, because I would be taking it away from myself as well as her. 

The only comments about your trip that you should make to your wife are positive ones. Make sure she realizes how much you appreciate the effort she put in.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

I keep coming back to my original idea. I don't expect any of you strict serial monogamists here to "get it," but IMO it's the best option.

As much as I want my wife to want the same sex life I do, she doesn't. But we love each other, and outside the bedroom our life is great.

If she would just set me free, we could both be happy.

You know the old saying? "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was."

Well, if she could just set me free, if she would allow me to go play on the occasional weekend, I would be the happiest man on earth. And I would come back to her every time, because I do love her. And she would feel a lot less pressure to perform or to resort to expensive trips out of town. 

To me, that is the very definition of a win/win: I'm sexually satisfied, she's less sexually stressed, we're both happy.

I would love for her to be my lover. I can't say that enough. She knows it. (You know it!) But even though she strongly suggested a willingness to play when we first met (and by that I mean swing, BDSM, and so on), she has done a 180 since then. 

I can't adjust to the idea that separation/divorce is the only solution. Married people used to take lovers all the time, and their spouses knew it full well (at least if classic literature has any truth to it). It was accepted practice.

The only difference here is I want permission first. I won't cheat on her, and I don't want to leave her.

Watch Lost Horizon and listen to the attitude on this topic in Shangri-La. 

Listen to Doobie Brothers ("If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.")

Etc, etc.

Stupid monogamist society we live in. Stupid jealousy thing.

Sigh...


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Have you broached the question? That's the kind of thing that can leave a mark.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Have you actually talked to her about the option of opening the marriage? If she cares about your happiness, and can't provide for your needs herself, it may work for her. You may need to discuss and deal with the risks - the biggest of which for her may be the fear of losing you if you find a truly compatible sex partner who is also a good match in other ways. If your marriage is really good in all other ways, an open marriage (even just one-sided) can work. Our relationship has been open from the start, and it has worked for us. Not everyone is monogamous by far, and ethical non-monogamy exists quite widely.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> As I see it the problem is that SEX seems to be out of her comfort zone. Sex, and everything to do with sex. Anything that even hints at sex is iffy. I come up behind her and kiss her neck or pat her butt, she brushes me off and squirms away, because it might lead to, you know...


My wife is the same. If I text her something flirty it ticks her off. If I come up behind her and hug her, same thing. Especially if I touch her butt or breast.

*It is all about timing*. 

If we watch a movie at night we typically sit on either side of the couch, 4' away from each other. If I move up next to her right away, then she brushes me off. But if I stay away and am happy and upbeat (not sulking like I used to do) for most of the movie and then offer to rub her neck or back, then she sometimes will let me get close. So we lay down on the couch and I rub her neck. If I grope her, she gets ticked and it will probably a couple of months before she will lay down on the couch with me.

Eventually though she will give me a sign. Either snuggle back against me more, or take my hand and bring it infront of her. She shows me that she is OK with some more sexual touch. Sometimes it doesn't happen until after the movie and we are in bed. Sometimes it doesn't happen at all.

This past weekend, we watched a show, then started a movie and she said we should lie down and she threw the pillows off the couch. SHE DID IT! If I would have come onto her earlier in the day, she probably would have been cold all night.

[/QUOTE]But when she does acquiesce, it's just boring. Oral is out, unless I'm giving it. Anal has never been on the table (not that I'm a big fan, but not even a finger? Jeez.) Foreplay is something to get over with quickly to get to the PIV, and she does what she can to get that over with quickly as well.

Tell me how I step out of my comfort zone; how do I meet that in the middle?

The way I see it, I've been out of my comfort zone for years, ever since the second baby was born. (She'll be 8 next month.)[/QUOTE]

Maybe your wife is different, but if I do the work my wife will respond. I refuse to allow boring. It takes time though. I might rub my wife's back for 30 minutes before it goes any further. 

We have tried anal once many years ago and neither of us liked it. Sometimes while giving her oral, I will graze a finger across her anus. For years she would push my hand away. Lately though (last couple of years), if the timing is right she allows it. If she is very turned on, it turns her on more. Her moaning gets louder and it will often bring her over the edge. I just rub the outside. I have a feeling that if I tried to push my finger into her, it would turn her off. I have gained her trust by not pushing it. A bit of pressure though, sure turns her on. Maybe someday when there is a ton of coconut oil there, I might push it in a bit. 

Find out what turns your wife on. For me it is all about being patient. Making sure I don't do anything to piss her off by being sexual too soon. It used to frustrate me. I used to screw up all the time and blame it on her for being cold. Now it is part of the game. Actually makes it more exciting. I will offer to rub her neck and she will say something like, 'you are just horny' and I will say, 'no, I can see your neck is sore, let me rub it for you'. Often if I rub it for a while and play my cards right, she is the one getting horny.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> I keep coming back to my original idea. I don't expect any of you strict serial monogamists here to "get it," but IMO it's the best option.
> 
> As much as I want my wife to want the same sex life I do, she doesn't. But we love each other, and outside the bedroom our life is great.
> 
> ...


I hope you haven't brought this up to your wife. 

One of my wife's biggest complaints is that I just want to USE her for sex. That it isn't about love and commitment. I keep telling her that I need to be intimate every once in a while because I love her. It makes us feel close .... connected.

If I told her I wanted to be able to have sex with someone else, it would confirm to her that I just want to GET OFF and that it isn't about love and commitment.

For me, physical touch/sex is my greatest need in our relationship. If we don't make love for a month or so, I feel myself falling out of love with her. I love my wife. I love sharing our life together, doing things together, etc. But without sex/intimacy, it wouldn't last.

If I was to take a lover, it would only be a matter of time before I fell in love with the lover and left my wife.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HiLibido said:


> As I see it the problem is that SEX seems to be out of her comfort zone. Sex, and everything to do with sex. Anything that even hints at sex is iffy. I come up behind her and kiss her neck or pat her butt, she brushes me off and squirms away, because it might lead to, you know...
> 
> But when she does acquiesce, it's just boring. Oral is out, unless I'm giving it. Anal has never been on the table (not that I'm a big fan, but not even a finger? Jeez.) Foreplay is something to get over with quickly to get to the PIV, and she does what she can to get that over with quickly as well.
> 
> ...


I totally understand your perspective.

It's a catch 22 because when you don't get enough sex you're always looking for sex. Then your wife is turned off because she thinks all you care about (and everything you do) is about getting laid.

It's a mindf*ck but fighting this does no good.

So I would say, getting out of your comfort zone may be just giving up on getting laid for a while. Try to connect with her on a different level. Just decide ahead of time that you're not going to make the interaction sexual unless she takes it in that direction. Take the pressure off her and let her decide if she wants it.

If you can get yourself under control and she never takes it in that direction then I would say she is just not attracted to you.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Open marriage is a dumb idea. 

First, your wife will not be into it. Simply asking the question will offend her. You already know this. What is the point?

Second, even if she said yes, then you have no ground to refuse her when she expects the same thing. Unless she is a troll, this will go much better for her than you.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> If I told her I wanted to be able to have sex with someone else, it would confirm to her that I just want to GET OFF and that it isn't about love and commitment.
> 
> For me, physical touch/sex is my greatest need in our relationship. If we don't make love for a month or so, I feel myself falling out of love with her. I love my wife. I love sharing our life together, doing things together, etc. But without sex/intimacy, it wouldn't last.
> 
> If I was to take a lover, it would only be a matter of time before I fell in love with the lover and left my wife.


I couldn't agree more. I have been trying to tell my wife for years this is about much more than a physical release. If I took a lover who was everything my wife is not in bed, I know there would be nothing left emotionally for my wife.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> Open marriage is a dumb idea.


I will accept such statements only from people who have tried it. If you're saying this (or agreeing with it if you didn't say it) as a serial monogamist, you really have no idea, do you?

I think it can work. I've seen it work, and I've seen it not work -- like any other type of marriage.



Anon1111 said:


> First, your wife will not be into it. Simply asking the question will offend her. You already know this. What is the point?


Correct. She is not, and would not be. Thus my dilemma. I haven't asked her outright, but we discussed these types of things in general before we got married, and she led me to believe she was open minded. I told her my history. I took her to fetish parties and swing clubs. I told her I identify as poly. She actually met several of my previous girlfriends, including two I was in poly relationships with (one was one of two women I was dating simultaneously a year prior, the other was a married woman -- I had been her lover with her husband's knowledge, permission, and occasional participation), and she really liked both of them. I had high hopes and in fact good reason to believe our sex life would never get boring.

It seems her mind snapped close upon saying, "I do." I feel like she pulled the football away just as I was ready to kick it.

I have also hinted in recent years, jokingly, that a hall pass would be a great birthday present. When previews for the movie by that name came out, I made a point of saying we should go see it, maybe we could pick up some pointers. She didn't even smile, much less give any indication in relenting her now strictly monogamous mindset.

More recently -- last summer in fact -- I told her I had been invited to a dungeon party. She was enraged at the thought of it. She made it quite clear that the thought of me spanking or tying up or even touching another woman, especially if she were nude or partially clothed, made her ill.

So yeah, I know it. The point is that I still want it, I still dream about it. I can't tell her, so I bring it here, hoping for an epiphany.



Anon1111 said:


> Second, even if she said yes, then you have no ground to refuse her when she expects the same thing. Unless she is a troll, this will go much better for her than you.


What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I would have no problem with her wanting the same thing. In fact, if she could find sex enjoyable with someone else, I would love it. I have no desire to control her physically or sexually. I want her to be happy, and if that would make her happy, I would support it 100%. I don't think she's any happier about our situation than I am -- except that she apparently has a lot less interest in sex than I do. I just hope that she would come home to me, as I would come home to her.

And no, she's no troll. Quite pretty for 45, great tits, just a little heavy around the middle due to two babies and too much chocolate. Not that I care about that. I still love her and want to stay with her.

As for the risk of falling in love with the other woman, that is probably my wife's fear; it's not mine. I admit it might happen. I would expect to have some feelings for the women I sleep with. Always did, as I recall. But having feelings is one thing; leaving my wife is something else entirely. I could easily love, or be in love with, more than one woman at a time. I've done it before. But I would make it clear to any potential partners exactly what my situation was. She would need to know where she stood from the beginning.

But isn't there just as much risk that my marriage will end anyway, if I continue to be unhappy (recent events notwithstanding)? I think there is.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

HiLibido said:


> As for the risk of falling in love with the other woman, that is probably my wife's fear; it's not mine. I admit it might happen. I would expect to have some feelings for the women I sleep with. Always did, as I recall. But having feelings is one thing; leaving my wife is something else entirely. I could easily love, or be in love with, more than one woman at a time. I've done it before. But I would make it clear to any potential partners exactly what my situation was. She would need to know where she stood from the beginning


But what about her? Traditionally women have a harder time than men compartmentalizing sex and love. Her lover may also satisfy some emotional needs you are not. If a strong EA develops, your marriage could be in jeopardy. An open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Dogbert said:


> But what about her? Traditionally women have a harder time than men compartmentalizing sex and love. Her lover may also satisfy some emotional needs you are not. If a strong EA develops, your marriage could be in jeopardy. An open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity.


While it's true that an open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity, a marriage where there is no regular sex is also at risk of infidelity. I would love for my husband to agree to an open marriage so that I can end the celibacy that he has forced on me. Before marriage I was expecting an interesting and enjoyable sex life - he and his first wife were swingers and from what he's told me they had a brilliant sex life. However, once we got married, regular sex became a thing of the past. From my point of view, unless my husband will agree to an open marriage, ours is sure to end in divorce - probably before the end of this year. I've gone without sex for so long that I'm now in the process of readying myself to leave him as soon as I can afford to do so. The only thing that will stop me leaving is if I can have sex on a regular basis.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

doobie said:


> While it's true that an open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity, a marriage where there is no regular sex is also at risk of infidelity. I would love for my husband to agree to an open marriage so that I can end the celibacy that he has forced on me. Before marriage I was expecting an interesting and enjoyable sex life - he and his first wife were swingers and from what he's told me they had a brilliant sex life. However, once we got married, regular sex became a thing of the past. From my point of view, unless my husband will agree to an open marriage, ours is sure to end in divorce - probably before the end of this year. I've gone without sex for so long that I'm now in the process of readying myself to leave him as soon as I can afford to do so. The only thing that will stop me leaving is if I can have sex on a regular basis.


Since there are no guarantees in life, there is no guarantee that you will be able to have sex on a regular basis once you are divorced. But you will at least have hope, which is what you don't have as a married woman.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> But what about her? Traditionally women have a harder time than men compartmentalizing sex and love.


I would agree. My marriage seems to exemplify both extremes on that scale.



Dogbert said:


> Her lover may also satisfy some emotional needs you are not.


And that would be fine by me. If I'm not fulfilling all her needs, I would love to see them get filled somehow. I would consider the opposite -- ensuring her needs were not getting filled -- tantamount to emotional abuse.



Dogbert said:


> If a strong EA develops, your marriage could be in jeopardy.


My marriage could be in jeopardy? Seriously? Some would say it already is. 

Or are you simply suggesting that her having an EA and wanting to separate is worse than my having an EA and wanting to separate? 



Dogbert said:


> An open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity.


True, but the depth of communication required in an open marriage can go a long way toward said inoculation. And a sexless closed marriage does the exact opposite.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

doobie said:


> While it's true that an open marriage does not inoculate against infidelity, a marriage where there is no regular sex is also at risk of infidelity. I would love for my husband to agree to an open marriage so that I can end the celibacy that he has forced on me. Before marriage I was expecting an interesting and enjoyable sex life - he and his first wife were swingers and from what he's told me they had a brilliant sex life. However, once we got married, regular sex became a thing of the past. From my point of view, unless my husband will agree to an open marriage, ours is sure to end in divorce - probably before the end of this year. I've gone without sex for so long that I'm now in the process of readying myself to leave him as soon as I can afford to do so. The only thing that will stop me leaving is if I can have sex on a regular basis.


Hey, we should hook up! :smthumbup:

Just kidding. I hope he does this for you. Have you taken him to a swing club lately? Maybe you should suggest that, and see what he says.

If you do leave him, I hope things work out for you.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Seems like you want everything to turn around in a very short time. Meanwhile, whenever you wife makes an effort, you always have a negative spin about it. Yes she arranged for us to have a weekend get away, but blah blah blah blah blah blah...

She has heard your concerns and she's putting some effort forward. You need to learn how to utilize the art of persuasion instead of getting pissy the moment something doesn't go right. 

Getting pissy is not sexy.


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## ladysweet (Sep 1, 2014)

Aw I really feel for you but I get very cold with my husband other half when he doesn't meet my needs emotionally. Women need an emotional bond before having sex. I'm not sure if that is the case. 

But wife's really need to understand a few things

A man's ego is how there wife craves there penis. All they want is thier wife to be her husbands and husbands only ****.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

HiLibido said:


> My marriage could be in jeopardy? Seriously? Some would say it already is.
> 
> Or are you simply suggesting that her having an EA and wanting to separate is worse than my having an EA and wanting to separate?


Not advocating you take this potential poison but if you do, you bear sole responsibility and you do so at your own risk.

Ok thrill seeker, get one of your better looking buddies to start paying unannounced visits to your home while you are away at work. Then have him turn on the charm full max on your wife until she's hooked on the attention like a crack head ho. Once they start a PA, you can hide naked In the closet until you can't stand it any longer and join them in a threesome. Will that work for you?

Then there is *this*. They may be pricey but a whole lot of fun and way cheaper than a divorce.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> Ok thrill seeker, get one of your better looking buddies to start paying unannounced visits to your home while you are away at work. Then have him turn on the charm full max on your wife until she's hooked on the attention like a crack head ho. Once they start a PA, you can hide naked In the closet until you can't stand it any longer and join them in a threesome. Will that work for you?


You're funny. Or at least you think you are.



Dogbert said:


> Then there is *this*. They may be pricey but a whole lot of fun and way cheaper than a divorce.


So that's your secret? Good to know.

Thanks, but I've got everything I need when it comes to masturbation. What I need is human interaction. From my wife. Of a sexual nature. More often.

Clear?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> You're funny. Or at least you think you are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, but from what I've read in this thread, it appears that your wife is getting the message and has made some efforts. You seem to be shooting down all of them. 

Problem won't improve overnight. So you take what your wife has been offering lately and try to build on it from there. 

Is it fair to say that at this point and time you are too jaded and nothing your wife will do will be good enough? It's a fair question and hopefully one you'll think about and answer honestly.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Problem won't improve overnight. So you take what your wife has been offering lately and try to build on it from there.



The magic word is SLA. She may be offer in but of the SLA is the bare minimum to not go nuclear, the offer is not going to have much gravitas...

Accepting a bare minimum SLA with a wife that wants to improve is one thing, but SLA's are like Lululemon pants... They stretch.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> The magic word is SLA. She may be offer in but of the SLA is the bare minimum to not go nuclear, the offer is not going to have much gravitas...
> 
> Accepting a bare minimum SLA with a wife that wants to improve is one thing, but SLA's are like Lululemon pants... They stretch.


How would he know if his wife's interest is clinical or genuine unless he trusts that she's trying to please him? From what I read, there is probably nothing she can do to make the OP happy. I think he's done, just doesn't have the balls to divorce and get on with his life.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Time and attitude can be used to good advantage... But both sides have to trust each other.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> Time and attitude can be used to good advantage... But *both sides have to trust each other*.


Yup.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

From Dr Robert Glover's book "No More Mr Nice Guy". I hope it helps you:



> *Saying "No" To Bad Sex Helps Nice Guys Get The Sex They Want*
> 
> When it comes to sex, Nice Guys are consummate bottom feeders. They settle for scraps and come back begging for more. Nice Guys settle for distorted images of bodies in pornography. They settle for the faceless sex of 900 numbers and chat rooms. They settle for trying to persuade unavailable people to begrudgingly be sexual with them. They settle for quick, compulsive masturbation. They settle for passionless, mechanical lovemaking. They settle for trances and fantasy. Nice Guys do a lot of settling.
> 
> ...


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

chaos said:


> From Dr Robert Glover's book "No More Mr Nice Guy". I hope it helps you:


Now THAT is on point! Thanks, Chaos. Maybe I'll try that.

I'm not familiar with the term "SLA". Please enlighten me.

I'm not pissy IRL. Maybe I sound that way while venting here, but if you asked my wife, I'm confident she would tell you that is NOT the impression she gets from me. She tells me (and, I know, her girlfriends, too) that I am a great husband, a wonderful father, and that I meet her emotional needs in every way.

She would also take full responsibility for the lack of sex in our rel'ship. 

She would then make a bunch of excuses for it, and promise to do better. And then she may or may not make good on that promise.

Case in point: I did something really nice for a neighbor, unsolicited -- they put out a request on Facebook and I stepped up, and helped them out of a pretty big jam. 

My wife told me over dinner that she never expected me to reply to that post, and was amazed and surprised that I did. In fact, she was so impressed, it "made her wet thinking about how great a guy" I am. She concluded with, "There may be a BJ in your future."

It's now been almost 3 weeks since she said that. Guess who's not holding his breath waiting for a blowjob? 

Did I really expect her to deliver? No. Did I hope she would make good this time? Of course. Am I annoyed? Sure. Was I, or am I pissy TO HER about it? Never.

I know she's getting the message. I appreciate the efforts she has made. We DO trust each other. And I know this won't be solved overnight.

Still, there's a long way to go, IMO. Don't tell me you're going to do something, then not do it, e.g. Better just to not say it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> Now THAT is on point! Thanks, Chaos. Maybe I'll try that.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the term "SLA". Please enlighten me.
> 
> ...


IMO, this part of the problem. When you tie sex to tasks as a quid pro quo for a job well done... Not good.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

If you're interested, you can download a free version of *No More Mr Nice Guy*


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Still trying to figure out what SLA means...

Anyone?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Service Level Agreement.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Service Level Agreement.


This is a thing outside of corporate America? In relationships?!

Jeebus...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

HiLibido said:


> This is a thing outside of corporate America? In relationships?!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeebus...



My wife, the lovely and frigid Dr. J2, is an IT consultant and SLA's are paramount in her line of business. It was only a matter of time before I adapted her terminology to mean the desirable or established sex frequency.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

HiLibido said:


> So I've often wondered, why won't she just give me a hall pass?


have you asked her?



> Second, I identify as poly,


I always get a kick out of this line.
"I identify as poly", as if it's some biological predestination like gender (Which many people who "identify as poly" don't believe in anyway)
I have news for you man EVERYBODY "Identifies as poly" on some biological basis or another.Cultural norms keep many from acting on it however.



> We went to some kinky parties and a swing club once (I watched her dance with and kiss a girl!), and talked about the possibility of having an open marriage. Ever the pragmatist, she said she was open to the possibilities, but if we had kids, she wouldn't want to put them at risk. Whatever that means...


It means embarrassing or harming them by living outside of culturally accepted norms.



> Naturally, we had kids shortly thereafter. All talk of anything out of the ordinary came to a screeching halt.


As it should have, just as mine did for the reason I cited above.
Priorities, family first, do nothing intentionally that could harm the family you're building.



> So here I am 11 years later, not getting my needs met.


Is she getting hers met?
Do you know if she's getting hers met?
Do you even know what they are?



> I mean, she doesn't want sex at all, but I want it as much as possible, up to 3 to 4 times a week.


What does she want?
Have you asked?
It's really not normal for a wife who is loved and cared for by a husband that she respects to become frigid.
It happens, but it's not the norm.



> *Almost everything else about our marriage is tolerable,* and if we worked at it, fixable. But I can't for the life of me figure out a better solution for our sex life.


There's a vote of confidence!
The parts of your marraige that are merely "tolerable" should be upgraded to at least "Good" before you'll ever be able to fix the sex part.
First things first.



> I've done it before, so I know I could handle a secondary, simultaneous relationship. It wouldn't be "an affair" if everyone know what the deal was. (I wouldn't want to do it unless everyone was on board.)


Well, have you asked her?
I really don't think you should, at least before you fix that "tolerable" stuff.



> Sigh... I mean, really, what's the big hangup!?


I dunno......security, fear, personal preference maybe?



> "If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was."


Whew!
That bit of crap cliche' is gonna go over real well here.



> I swear I would come back every night. I would love my wife SO MUCH MORE if she would just give me a little freedom!


You're clueless about intimate relationships.
****ing someone else does not ever increase love for your SO.
Even in legitimate poly relationships it doesn't work that way.



> If she asked me for this, I would grant it in a heartbeat! I would say, "PLEASE go f*** that guy's brains out! Have a ball! Just be home by 11."


What do you think is going to happen when the guy she decides to **** with your blessing is much better than "tolerable" at the things she's probably missing in your relationship?

She'll start getting some of those needs met that you've been only tolerable at meeting.
Hope like hell he isn't actually "great" at meeting those needs because then you're done.
Game over.



> In a perfect world...


You and I have a different definition of "perfect".


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Any update HLibido?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Any update HLibido?


Nothing positive. Managed to sneak in a quickie 2 weeks ago after a 40 day drought. Yes, I'm keeping track now. So sue me.

Sigh.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Other than keeping track (which I think makes sense), have you been doing anything differently?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

tacoma said:


> I always get a kick out of this line.
> "I identify as poly", as if it's some biological predestination like gender (Which many people who "identify as poly" don't believe in anyway)
> I have news for you man EVERYBODY "Identifies as poly" on some biological basis or another.Cultural norms keep many from acting on it however.


I have news for you. EVERYBODY most certainly does NOT do any such thing. Apparently it is YOU who has no clue about intimate relationships.

Cheers!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> My LD wife doesn't need or want sex. She refuses to give oral, claiming it causes lockjaw and is painful for her. So the only time we have sex is when she can't put me off any longer and feels sorry for me, on average every 6 weeks or so.
> 
> The sex itself, to be honest, sucks. I won't bore you with details, but it seems like she wants to make sure it's as unpleasant for me as it apparently is for her.
> 
> ...


Sooo... even though she's NOT having regular sex w/ you, you'd encourage her to pursue sexual relationships w/ other men?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> Other than keeping track (which I think makes sense), have you been doing anything differently?


Pretty much same ol, same ol around here. Not much time for talking or anything else, really.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> I have news for you. EVERYBODY most certainly does NOT do any such thing. Apparently it is YOU who has no clue about intimate relationships.
> 
> Cheers!


Uhhh... OK. 2 1/2 weeks later...

He actually asked quite a few really good questions in there.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... even though she's NOT having regular sex w/ you, you'd encourage her to pursue sexual relationships w/ other men?


If she wanted to, yes. But it's really a moot point, as she doesn't seem to desire any sex at all, even solo for that matter. 

My point was really that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

E.g.: Compersion: A Polyamorous Principle That Can Strengthen Any Relationship

If only...


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... OK. 2 1/2 weeks later...
> 
> He actually asked quite a few really good questions in there.


So? It's been 2 1/2 weeks since I've been on here. And he chimed in well after this conversation was fresh, and most if not all of his questions have been asked and answered, he's just too lazy to read the thread.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiLibido said:


> If she wanted to, yes. But it's really a moot point, as she doesn't seem to desire any sex at all, even solo for that matter.
> 
> My point was really that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
> 
> ...


No desire for you but ready to jump Thor or Khal Drogo at the drop of a hat? And you're cool w/ that? Sorry, not buying it. Or maybe she is... and makes her feel like she's not very valuable to you.

Honestly, though, none of that matters. If you're so ready to _outwardly_ identify as poly (this is what tacoma was talking about) and she's neither having any of it nor is willing, wanting, or whatever to have sex w/ you more often than every month or so, you basically have 3 options...

1. Continue to live w/ it.

2. Cheat.

3. Divorce.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> Judgmental much?
> 
> Jesus, there's no pleasing you people.
> 
> ...


Gotta start somewhere


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

HiLibido said:


> OK, apparently something I said got to her.
> 
> She surprised me last Saturday with a babysitter and a trip to a nearby town for dinner at my favorite restaurant and an overnight hotel stay. She's been planning this for some time. All her girlfriends were in on it. They were all quite proud of themselves for keeping the secret till the last minute, and of her for making it happen.
> 
> ...


Was this different than while dating?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Kobo said:


> Was this different than while dating?


Yes. It was MUCH different while dating. Night and fvcking day.

I've come to the sad conclusion that this is my lot in life. I believe my wife doesn't feel sexy any more. She is pretty chunky now, after two kids and soooo much chocolate, and she seems to have given up trying to make herself look or feel pretty. As such, she doesn't feel worthy of being loved, or touched, etc. 

Doesn't matter what I say or do, it's in her head. I've tried to talk to her. I've tried to show her that she is loved, and is sexy to me, but it doesn't matter. Nothing I say or do is going to move her. She needs to move her own self. Maybe she will one day. Maybe she never will.

I'm not going to divorce her any time soon. Probably never. I went through that once. Once is enough. Everything else about our life is "tolerable," as I said (and was recently reminded). Some things about our life are actually good. Our kids are fvcking amazing. They give me more than enough reason to stick around and put up with everything else. 

The sexlessness is my single biggest complaint. But it takes two to tango, and I'm without a dance partner. So there it is.

I'm not going to cheat on her. I'm too honest for that, and any time I try to hide anything from her, even a birthday present, she knows. Somehow she knows. It just wouldn't be worth it. 

And obviously, clearly, plainly, she would never consent to letting me go off and have fun or explore on my own. She loves me, but not in the "Let me be me and I'll let you be you" way. More in the "You're mine and I'll never let you go!" way.

Sigh. So, I made my own bed. Now I have to lie in it. I married her. I'm stuck with her.

So I'll just put up with it, as Gus and others have suggested.

Keep your comments and suggestions to yourself. I'm checking out of this thread. 

Thanks to all who participated. F U to all the snarky pundits.


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