# Boy being forced out by HOA



## red oak

Hopefully right category. 
Feel sorry for the boy. Already lost both parents and now this. 
Is HOA correct?
Or should he be allowed to stay?
Thoughts?

https://www.healthy-holistic-living...homeowners-association-wants-to-kick-him-out/


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## EleGirl

According to the video, the HOA's lawyers say that the youngest someone can be to live there is 19. The kid is 17.

Surely they could cut him some slack. This is why I would never live in HOA or Condo Assoc. 

Sure the grandparents could sell their place and move. But that's probably a huge hardship on them.

However, the lawyers are right that letting him stay could lead to a law suit from some owners. Sucks.


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## Faithful Wife

The poor kid. I hope to read a happy update soon. I’m sure with all the publicity this family will get some kind of help to be able to all stay together. Maybe there is a better place they can all move where kids are permitted. Like family community living versus just senior community living. My mom lives in a senior community and the rules are very strict. You can have a visitor without much question, even kids, but after the specific time allowed the residents would be notified that the guests had to go. I think the time allowed is a week or two.

But there must be communities that are for special kids as well as adults. Typically maybe that would mean kids with disabilities, but a kid who is an orphan has strikes against him and is at risk and should qualify for some kind of community that would work for the grandparents too.


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## Baldy

It’s a lousy situation for sure. If they move, the boy will forever feel it was his fault. If they stay and end up in a protracted legal battle the boy will think it’s his fault as well. I understand that the HOA has rules and that the grandparents agreed. I also know HOA’s can make amendments based on changing situations. Shame on those Who don’t care what they are doing to this boy and his grandparents.


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## MJJEAN

Baldy said:


> I understand that the HOA has rules and that the grandparents agreed. I also know HOA’s can make amendments based on changing situations. Shame on those Who don’t care what they are doing to this boy and his grandparents.


Making an exception would be a slippery slope. If you make an exception for one then others will expect exceptions be made for them even in unrelated type situations. At that point, there's no reason to even have an HOA anymore. The rules exist for the comfort of all residents. I feel for the family, but a senior neighborhood is not the right place for this young man.


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## ConanHub

I would sell.....to the grouchiest, rotten human beings I could find and be rid of the neighborhood.

I like humans of all ages though so I'm probably a little biased against this HOA.:wink2:


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## Married but Happy

It's certainly an unfortunate situation. But if the HOA makes an exception for him, they will have to do so for anyone who wants or needs to have a child (of any age) live with them. If I chose to live in a community with restrictions on children, I would want that enforced, because I would not want young children as neighbors. I like kids, but I also like (and in this scenario would have chosen) a living situation away from the noise and unsightly paraphernalia of childhood.

There is no good solution. Perhaps a temporary measure (until he's 19 in less than 2 years) would be to get him an apartment very nearby but outside the HOA bounds. There are probably few rules on visitors in the HOA, so he could probably spend a great deal of time there.


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## MJJEAN

Married but Happy said:


> But if the HOA makes an exception for him, they will ...


Get sued by one or more residents. The HOA board is elected to enforce the HOA rules and handle other HOA business such as maintaining community areas and so on. In order to change a rule a vote must be called and a super majority is required. The HOA doesn't have any good options here.



Married but Happy said:


> Perhaps a temporary measure (until he's 19 in less than 2 years)


According to a local news story the young man is actually 15 and has been living with his grandparents against the HOA rules since 2018.

"A senior housing association in Arizona has given the grandparents of an orphaned *15-year-old boy* a choice: Kick him out or move. Passmore tells NBC that her grandson, Collin Claubagh, *has been living with her and her husband since Christmas 2018, shortly before his parents died.*"

The mother died of illness in February 2019. The father a couple weeks later. The article also says they've owned the home for 4 years. They have been in violation of the age restriction for a over a year of that time. They are still being given until June to either sell the house or make other arrangements for their grandson. They've been given plenty of time to figure this out, but they don't want to sell and they don't want to abide by the HOA contract they signed, either.


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## wilson

This situation isn't too much different than if the homeowners had a child of their own. If the homeowners got pregnant themselves, they'd likely have to move. 

HOA's catch a lot of flack, but people don't have to live in the neighborhood if they don't want to live under the restrictions defined in the HOA. Presumably these people moved into the neighborhood knowing these restrictions and likely saw them as a benefit at the time. The HOA restrictions likely contributed to whatever qualities attracted them to that house in the first place.


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## Baldy

MJJEAN said:


> Making an exception would be a slippery slope. If you make an exception for one then others will expect exceptions be made for them even in unrelated type situations. At that point, there's no reason to even have an HOA anymore. The rules exist for the comfort of all residents. I feel for the family, but a senior neighborhood is not the right place for this young man.


It would not be a slippery slope as many would believe. A well defined exception to deal with a specific situation is not a slippery slope. Has the HOA ever changed, added, or amended a rule? I suspect any that are more than a year old have. Does that mean the whole thing comes tumbling down?


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## wilson

Baldy said:


> It would not be a slippery slope as many would believe. A well defined exception to deal with a specific situation is not a slippery slope. Has the HOA ever changed, added, or amended a rule? I suspect any that are more than a year old have. Does that mean the whole thing comes tumbling down?


It's surprisingly challenging to get enough participation to modify the HOA covenants. Quite often, the covenants require something like 2/3 of the owners to agree to the change, but they hardly ever get that many people voting. So even if they proposed this change, owner apathy would likely mean it couldn't pass.

Old HOA's often have very outdated restrictions, such as restrictions against minorities living in the neighborhood. Those are unenforceable because of state and federal laws, but many covenants still include them because the HOA can't get enough participation to change them.

That said, the HOA isn't legally required to enforce everything. Some HOA's are complaint driven, so if no one complains, the HOA does nothing. The HOA could also drag their feet in enforcing this. If it takes several years before getting to the final stage and the kid is 17 by then, the whole matter could be dropped.


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## red oak

I'm middle ground and have no dog in this fight.

Just thought this situation would make for interesting discussion.

I know HOA's can make covenants, but how can covenants against federal law be enforced?

Or is there no age discrimination rule in federal housing laws?


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## MJJEAN

Baldy said:


> It would not be a slippery slope as many would believe. A well defined exception to deal with a specific situation is not a slippery slope. Has the HOA ever changed, added, or amended a rule? I suspect any that are more than a year old have. Does that mean the whole thing comes tumbling down?


For the HOA to amend/change the rule they have to call a vote of all homeowners and have a super majority. Considering the other homeowners moved there specifically to be in a 55+ community that is unlikely.

Making an exception without amending the rules leaves the HOA open to lawsuits from disgruntled member homeowners for failure to enforce the terms of the HOA.

And, as I said in another comment, the family have had the 15 year old boy with them for over a year. They've been in violation of the contract they signed since December of 2018. They've been given until June 2020 to resolve the situation. They've chosen to do nothing. They bought the house 4 years ago, have been in violation of their contract for about 25% of the time they've lived there, and instead of selling the house and moving somewhere else, they've just stubbornly decided to stay put and that the rules they agreed to don't apply to them.


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## Affaircare

red oak said:


> I'm middle ground and have no dog in this fight.
> 
> Just thought this situation would make for interesting discussion.
> 
> I know HOA's can make covenants, but how can covenants against federal law be enforced?
> 
> *Or is there no age discrimination rule in federal housing laws?*


It's interesting you bring this up, because from what I can glean, this particular community is a 55+ community which means it has some exemption from certain discrimination prohibitions granted to housing for older persons because of the Housing for Older Persons Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_for_Older_Persons_Act). Long story short, a community can say they are 55+ and qualify for this status if 80% or more of the residents are 55 years old or older. If it falls below 80%, then they not only lose that 55+ status but they lose it forever and can never get it back. 

So the Fair Housing Act said that people/families can not be discriminated against (and here it is) UNLESS the community qualifies as Housing for Older Persons (55+). HOPA requires that a facility or community seeking to claim the 55 and older exemption must show three factors:
1. That the housing be intended and operated for persons 55 years of age and older;
2. That at least 80 percent of the occupied units be occupied by at least one person who is 55 years of age or older (In order to comply with the occupancy requirement, HOPA must adhere to the HUD verification rules for occupancy requirement.); and
3. The housing facility or community publish *and adhere to* policies and procedures that demonstrate its intent to qualify for the exemption.

So I don't think this HOA is particularly being heartless, nor are they failing to take into consideration the tragic circumstances that brought that young man to his grandparent's house. Rather, they literally can not just change the HOA rules and allow one person who is 15yo or 17yo (whatever he is now) because if they do, they would no longer qualify as a 55+ community and they would lose that forever.


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## red oak

Affaircare said:


> It's interesting you bring this up, because from what I can glean, this particular community is a 55+ community which means it has some exemption from certain discrimination prohibitions granted to housing for older persons because of the Housing for Older Persons Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_for_Older_Persons_Act). Long story short, a community can say they are 55+ and qualify for this status if 80% or more of the residents are 55 years old or older. If it falls below 80%, then they not only lose that 55+ status but they lose it forever and can never get it back.
> 
> So the Fair Housing Act said that people/families can not be discriminated against (and here it is) UNLESS the community qualifies as Housing for Older Persons (55+). HOPA requires that a facility or community seeking to claim the 55 and older exemption must show three factors:
> 1. That the housing be intended and operated for persons 55 years of age and older;
> 2. That at least 80 percent of the occupied units be occupied by at least one person who is 55 years of age or older (In order to comply with the occupancy requirement, HOPA must adhere to the HUD verification rules for occupancy requirement.); and
> 3. The housing facility or community publish *and adhere to* policies and procedures that demonstrate its intent to qualify for the exemption.
> 
> So I don't think this HOA is particularly being heartless, nor are they failing to take into consideration the tragic circumstances that brought that young man to his grandparent's house. Rather, they literally can not just change the HOA rules and allow one person who is 15yo or 17yo (whatever he is now) because if they do, they would no longer qualify as a 55+ community and they would lose that forever.


This makes the HOA situation more understandable. 

Interesting for sure. 

Wonder what type benefits they lose.


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## Faithful Wife

red oak said:


> Affaircare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting you bring this up, because from what I can glean, this particular community is a 55+ community which means it has some exemption from certain discrimination prohibitions granted to housing for older persons because of the Housing for Older Persons Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_for_Older_Persons_Act). Long story short, a community can say they are 55+ and qualify for this status if 80% or more of the residents are 55 years old or older. If it falls below 80%, then they not only lose that 55+ status but they lose it forever and can never get it back.
> 
> So the Fair Housing Act said that people/families can not be discriminated against (and here it is) UNLESS the community qualifies as Housing for Older Persons (55+). HOPA requires that a facility or community seeking to claim the 55 and older exemption must show three factors:
> 1. That the housing be intended and operated for persons 55 years of age and older;
> 2. That at least 80 percent of the occupied units be occupied by at least one person who is 55 years of age or older (In order to comply with the occupancy requirement, HOPA must adhere to the HUD verification rules for occupancy requirement.); and
> 3. The housing facility or community publish *and adhere to* policies and procedures that demonstrate its intent to qualify for the exemption.
> 
> So I don't think this HOA is particularly being heartless, nor are they failing to take into consideration the tragic circumstances that brought that young man to his grandparent's house. Rather, they literally can not just change the HOA rules and allow one person who is 15yo or 17yo (whatever he is now) because if they do, they would no longer qualify as a 55+ community and they would lose that forever.
> 
> 
> 
> This makes the HOA situation more understandable.
> 
> Interesting for sure.
> 
> Wonder what type benefits they lose.
Click to expand...

These places can charge lower than average rent because they are subsidized. They would lose their subsidies if they allowed tenants who don’t meet the criteria. 

Which would mean fewer housing options for older people on fixed incomes who can’t afford full price rent, which working class younger people can pay. Even if it’s tough on the working class too, they at least have the ability to earn more income.


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## Yeswecan

EleGirl said:


> According to the video, the HOA's lawyers say that the youngest someone can be to live there is 19. The kid is 17.
> 
> Surely they could cut him some slack. This is why I would never live in HOA or Condo Assoc.
> 
> Sure the grandparents could sell their place and move. But that's probably a huge hardship on them.
> 
> However, the lawyers are right that letting him stay could lead to a law suit from some owners. Sucks.


Understand that if one rule is let to slide others in the community would want other rules to slide for their benefit. Bad precedence. Concerning HOA, we spent a lot of money on our home. It is an investment. I like to protect my investments and see them grow in value. I will be darned to have an uncaring neighbor who paints the home hot pink, leaves a pick up truck on blocks in the front yard, couch on the porch, a dilapidated fence and changing oil in his driveway all weekend with his buddies devalue our investment. The rules are quite clear at time of looking at a home in a HOA. The rules are gone over again at signing. If there are rules that are unacceptable then one should not buy in that neighborhood. By and large the rules most HOA have are what people adhere to anyway. The only difference is the rule can be enforced if said neighbor in the HOA decides parking a motor home in the drive and letting friends live in it is a great idea. In a non-HOA community all bets are off.


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