# Finding the right balance... OK vs Good sex?



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

It's been a while since my last post. While I have applied a lot of what was suggested, I will admit that I haven't done it all. Specifically, both of us meeting with a counselor to help us sort out irrational demands from rational ones. I do have a counselor selected and mentioned it to my wife most recently a few months ago, but my son got ill and we really had to focus on him. This was very stressful on both of us. 

My son is now better, but sex had once again taken a back seat to everything. I feel bad about complaining about a lack of sex, among all of our issues; but I think many other members of this forum may feel that sex is either essential or important in some way. 

So here's my issue, if I walked up to my wife tonight and told her to bend over, she would. 3m later, we could be done and she'd be happy that she fulfilled he weekly duty. I would be disappointed that we didn't really have "good" sex. 

A few months ago, my wife gave me signals that I was going to get some. Before we put the kids to bed, she wanted to sneak around the corner. I said why don't we wait until we put the kids in bed and then have "good" sex. (Note to self, never say no to sex for any reason.) She didn't quite understand what I meant by "good" sex. She asked me if it wasn't always good. 

I brought up a few times we had memorable sex. I think she understood, or at least I covered for myself well, despite one for my examples being when we watched a pornographic movie. The first time, she thought it would be a good idea, and the sex afterwards was awesome. We tried it about 10 more times, and probably have a 9/10 success rate for very good sex. When I say good sex, it's as if she's lost all of those inhibitions that keep her from enjoying herself. She's thinking about the moment and me and not about her other "worries". I can tell that she's enjoying it. It's different then other times, and not just the 2 or 3 O's. It's not me, I can do it anytime and be into it. But, I can tell just by watching her that she's getting turned on. 

I'm not going to take this to mean anything about the effectiveness of porn to turn her on, but more that she can get into it and enjoy it. That makes it better for me. 

But, I'm getting kind of sick of using porn as a crutch to have good sex. Actually, I don't really mind, but I don't think she's comfortable with it despite it having a fairly high success rate. It does take some convincing, and it does feel a bit sleazy to try and convince her to watch a movie with me. When she did agree, she would usually ask for a rain check and then she'd run down the clock. Another rain check and another. Next thing you know, it's been two weeks. 

So moving away from that strategy, how do I initiate sex in a way that I get good meaningful sex. She does have anxiety. I think she's always so worried about everything that she's too anxious for sex. She does have a lot of stresses from her family, though I think I do as well. Part of the reason some sex isn't good is that she's talking about her stresses during it. 

So...

About 6 months ago, I came up with a new strategy. I'd sporadically give her a head massage. The first few times, it worked. Pretty good sex. Recently, though, when I tried it, she enjoyed the massage for a few minutes then moved on. Nothing came of it. Recently, I'm trying more and having less success. The rejection kind of hurts. It makes me want to try less and settle more. 

I've been finding my success rate dropping and the same with the quality when I am successful. 

We tried date nights without the kids, but she didn't want to go out and the guarantee that I thought I would have never materialized. I must be misreading signals, because I frequently come home thinking it's a guarantee. But, as soon as the kids are in bed, she eats dinner or showers. She doesn't want to have sex after she eats or when she's clean. I feel like she's timing the stuff to keep me away. 

She'll say things like there's time for that or I'm not going anywhere. That works, if it still happens. But, it hasn't been. 

The idea that good sex is becoming a bi-yearly thing and quickies have to do is eating away at me. 

How do I get there? What should I try? She's said it's not important to her, but I've seen her enjoy it. How do I remind her that she does enjoy it?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> She'll say things like there's time for that or I'm not going anywhere. That works, if it still happens. But, it hasn't been.


Call BS on this immediately. Maybe she is not going anywhere but that doesn't mean you aren't.

Dr. Phil often looks at women who are fixated on their kids and ignore their husbands and tells them "do not think that you can spend 18 or 20 years focusing on your kids and ignoring your husband and expect that he will be there for you when the kids are grown and you are ready to devote time to your marriage. You won't have a marriage left to return to. He'll either have divorced you or cheated or turned himself off to you. When you turn to him, he'll either be gone or turn the other way."

There are no guarantees in life. God forbid but you could both be dead in 18 years. Or disabled. Or have heart problems and not be medically cleared for sex. Maybe she is willing to put her sex life on hold for 18 or 20 years but that doesn't mean you are or that she is entitled to demand you do.

I give this advice often: the best thing you can do for your kids is to remain happily married to their other parent. So if she asks you to do what is best for the kids, tell her you are: and that means you guys need to have a sex life so you can be happy being married to their mother. At age 18 the kids will not remember how often she changed their diaper or whether she fed them organic hand chopped baby food but they will sure as heck remember the day Dad walked out the door and never came back.

She will accuse you of being an immature unevolved chauvinistic ignorant caveman. Smile and look her in the eyes and say "of course I am, assumed that was why you married me."


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

We have this rule; once we are in the bed, no talking about anything but "us". That means nothing to do with kids, house, parents/siblings, money etc. Us means how are you feeling, sex talks, massages, holding hands, loving up on each other before getting to the sex part. 

My husband lets me know in bed I am his wife. Not mum. 

We do watch tv, or read but we are holding hands or cuddling. Sometimes, you have to take the ok sex because you are tired or one person is not in the mood so much(me). But i have learn over the years not to say no to sex. Expect for a headache or monthly cycle, or sick.

You can't expect ever night to be a great sex night. But if the ok sex is done with love and intimacy instead of wam bam thank you mam, it can still be wonderful.

That just us. I know a lot of women are going to blow up about not saying no to sex. But it works for us and we are still smiling and loving each other after all these years.


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## Sure that could work (Jun 9, 2015)

I am going to point out the obvious here.....your wife apparently likes the quickies, sounds like she asks for them, so I would assume it excites her to have a quickie somewhere other then in the bedroom.......and you expressed to her that quickies weren't what you consider "good" sex.......I am sure you didn't mean to insult your wife and the sex she likes in that manner, but boy oh boy did you.

You might need to rethink your approach to what your wife wants and when she wants it.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree with STCW. Never turn down the quickies. At night in bed, tell her how hot is was to take her quickly in the hall and what a great wife she is and what a lucky guy you are to be married to her and how just thinking about her gets you hard. Then roll over and start round 2. You will last longer and get the "good" sex you want.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Sure said:


> I am going to point out the obvious here.....your wife apparently likes the quickies, sounds like she asks for them, so I would assume it excites her to have a quickie somewhere other then in the bedroom.......and you expressed to her that quickies weren't what you consider "good" sex.......I am sure you didn't mean to insult your wife and the sex she likes in that manner, but boy oh boy did you.
> 
> You might need to rethink your approach to what your wife wants and when she wants it.


I would love to think that's true, but she doesn't initiate the quickies. When I ask for sex at a time when we would only have tie for a quickie, she still says "Ugh, now?" or "No" or uses a number of familiar excuses. 

I will ask her if she prefers quickies, but I suspect she'll respond the same way I would if you asked if I preferred to clean the toilet for a long time and really get into it, or do it quickly and get it over with.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree with STCW. Never turn down the quickies. At night in bed, tell her how hot is was to take her quickly in the hall and what a great wife she is and what a lucky guy you are to be married to her and how just thinking about her gets you hard. Then roll over and start round 2. You will last longer and get the "good" sex you want.


OK. That's always my thinking. In fact, I've said I'll give it to you now, but I want it later. It doesn't work.

She will not have sex twice in a day. It doesn't make sense to her. It already happened once, why do we have to do it again?


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## Sure that could work (Jun 9, 2015)

from your OP: _A few months ago, my wife gave me signals that I was going to get some. Before we put the kids to bed, she wanted to sneak around the corner. I said why don't we wait until we put the kids in bed and then have "good" sex. (Note to self, never say no to sex for any reason.) She didn't quite understand what I meant by "good" sex. She asked me if it wasn't always good. 
_

Do you see this quote from your OP? Right there in your post you said she gave you signals, she wanted to sneak around the corner, you nixed it and explained to her that "you" wanted to wait for the "good" sex........If she is shy sexually this right here will make sure that she will not want any sex with you since only you get to determine when and where the sex is good.......How would you feel if your wife said she didn't want to have a sexual encounter with you because she wanted to wait for the "good" sex?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree with STCW. Never turn down the quickies. At night in bed, tell her how hot is was to take her quickly in the hall and what a great wife she is and what a lucky guy you are to be married to her and how just thinking about her gets you hard. Then roll over and start round 2. You will last longer and get the "good" sex you want.


Sometimes, those quickies are what holds you together as W and H. When, life gets in the way, it's a quickie to the rescue. Take your wife any which way she offers herself. Once, in bed you can try for your good sex. If you refuse, she is going to develop a complex and stop offering. 

For women sometimes it so hard to shut our brains down. We have the tendency to think of all the things going on in our lives and it's a tape that keeps on playing. You can be on top of us, having a great time and the tape is playing grocery list or tomorrows to do list. So, we need something to switch gear and put the focus on sex.

If your wife is using porn to get in the mood, use it. Once, she is not hiding and watching hours of porn, its not a problem. She is just using it to shut down the tape in her head. Watching porn start things off, but 10 minutes into it and you completely forget its there. Because its between you two. when the kids are older, things will change. But for now, if that's what it takes fine.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Sure said:


> from your OP: _A few months ago, my wife gave me signals that I was going to get some. Before we put the kids to bed, she wanted to sneak around the corner. I said why don't we wait until we put the kids in bed and then have "good" sex. (Note to self, never say no to sex for any reason.) She didn't quite understand what I meant by "good" sex. She asked me if it wasn't always good.
> _
> 
> Do you see this quote from your OP? Right there in your post you said she gave you signals, she wanted to sneak around the corner, you nixed it and explained to her that "you" wanted to wait for the "good" sex........


First of all, I have regretted saying that since the day I said it. It's the only time in my life I in any way turned down my wife for sex. And I wasn't really turning her down as much as saying let's wait 30m and make it memorable. "Memorable", why didn't I use that word? Ugh. I will never make that mistake again. 

She didn't give me signals at that time, she told me we should sneak around the corner. She offered it in a box with a bow. I do think I was laying the groundwork for sex earlier. In my mind, she was trying to get it over with. But, I blew it. 

In regards to the signals, I always think she's giving me signals. Before I go to work, I tell her to get ready for tonight or something like that. I spend my day thinking about it. Building it up, and when I get home, I usually think she's giving me signals and getting ready for something right up until she tells me she's going to bed. 

If that's confusing, let me give some examples. I used to think her showering was a signal. She's getting clean for me. No, she doesn't want sex after getting clean. If I text her in the middle of the day with a sweet nothing, and she doesn't respond with a snarky comment, I think that's a signal. In some cases, I come home assuming sex is a guarantee. It never is. I really think I just see signals where there aren't any. Can I blame being a male? 

I really should've said that I thought she was giving me signals. The truth is I don't think she consciously or subconsciously gives signals. I think I just misinterpret her. I see why it seems like I rejected her desire for sex, although she wasn't offended by me declining. She was offended because I made the "good" comment about sex. 




> If she is shy sexually this right here will make sure that she will not want any sex with you since only you get to determine when and where the sex is good.......How would you feel if your wife said she didn't want to have a sexual encounter with you because she wanted to wait for the "good" sex?


That's actually a good point because she had no idea what I meant by good sex and a quickie. Maybe others don't see a distinction? For me, with a quickie, I have no opportunity to give her an O. With good sex, I do. Quickie, no kissing. Good sex, kissing and snuggling. Quickie is to get it over with., Good sex is to enjoy each other. 

Your last question is tough because I feel like that's what I want. I'd be a bit pleased. But, I can assure you my wife has rejected me with great frequency and such snarkiness that I frequently feel rejected. She's pretty harsh with her words, or she doesn't think about the damage she's saying with her words. If I spoke to or rejected her the way she speaks to me, she would be suicidal. I consider myself to be pretty thick skinned and she frequently surprised me with either her lack of courtesy. She could say "I'm tired", but instead, she says "Ugh! Why now! Don't you understand I just want to relax". And it gets much worse. 

The only redemption I can come up with is "It's only sex" and "There will be time for that in the future."


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## Sure that could work (Jun 9, 2015)

_from your post: That's actually a good point because she had no idea what I meant by good sex and a quickie. Maybe others don't see a distinction? For me, with a quickie, I have no opportunity to give her an O. With good sex, I do. Quickie, no kissing. Good sex, kissing and snuggling. Quickie is to get it over with., Good sex is to enjoy each other. 
_

You know, quickies can include kissing, they can include a lot of passion, they are considered by some to be very good sex. Sex in other places then the bedroom can be excellent. Are you sure your wife is not having an O from a quickie? Any sex is to enjoy each other. Sometimes when there are children in the home there is just not enough time for what you call the "good" sex on a regular basis and the quickies fill in. But you have ruled out the quickies because that is not the "good" sex, so you have ruled out about 50% of sex for people who have children in the home.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

lessthennone said:


> ...So here's my issue, if I walked up to my wife tonight and told her to bend over, she would. 3m later, we could be done and *she'd be happy that she fulfilled he weekly duty. * I would be disappointed that we didn't really have "good" sex.
> 
> ....So moving away from that strategy, how do I initiate sex in a way that I get good meaningful sex. She does have anxiety. I think she's always so worried about everything that she's too anxious for sex. She does have a lot of stresses from her family, though I think I do as well. Part of the reason some sex isn't good is that she's talking about her stresses during it.
> 
> ...


Where to start. Some women just have different levels of desire.

Your wife sounds a bit like my wife. Mine has to completely clear her mind in order to let go enough to orgasm and has to orgasm to really enjoy the feel of me inside her. So we have developed some rituals and typical times we have sex. Say Saturday or Sunday morning and one weekday night (Wednesday or Thursday). 

At those times we talk to each other and she will lay her head on my chest while I hold her and massage her back, neck and shoulders. It she can clear her mind, she will pull me over onto her and the foreplay will start until she climaxes. One of the things I have learned is that nipple play raises oxytocine levels in women (and men) and in women it produces stronger and often multiple orgasms when manual stimulation and lots of labia & clitoral play of her happens.

Now I have heard my wife tell me, "Don't touch me there, as you will make me want to have sex with you and I really don't want to have sex now." Yes she really did tell me that. When she is aroused she will enjoy sex and want sex. However, there are times when she just doesn't want sex even if she knows she will enjoy it. You just need to understand that not everone's sexual desires are similar to yours.

Finally, our sex therapist told us that sex should be stress free, playful and exploratory. That means you don't add to "performance anxiety of either partner by pushing for "good or memorable" sex. You just play and see what happens. Sometimes it will be memorable and sometimes things will just not work out and you will laugh about it and learn to do things differently next time.

Think of it like an athletic even of sorts. I run a number of 5K's each year. Sometimes the weather is perfect, I have trained hard, and I will have a really great race. Other times I will get a muscle cramp and have a horrible run. I am not a professional or great runner, it is just something I enjoy doing. I have to accept that some runs are for training and some are for personal best. Imagine if it was a team sport. That means that two people have to train and be in sync for a personal best performance. Probably doesn't happen a lot without dedicated training or a professional status. Is that analogy to vague? Sex is a lot like a sporting event except that you are doing it with some for mutual benefit, to become emotionally closer and to bond with your partner.

So don't put pressure on our wife to perform, make sex fun and keep your expectations in check. If you don't performance will be one more thing in the back of her mind as she is trying to relax enough to have sex with you. Very counter productive.

In addition to the head rubs, etc. May I suggest you read up on "bonding rituals." Think of it as sexual after care. It is what you do after orgasm to emotionally center your partner and make them feel good and proud about what the two of you just did. I makes them know that it was worth the effort and builds emotional closeness.

Good luck.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> ..........How do I get there? What should I try? She's said it's not important to her, but I've seen her enjoy it. How do I remind her that she does enjoy it?


It is critical that you tell her that IT IS important to you, this is a partnership that should hold both partners needs as important. TBH I would stop tippy toeing around this and have a really serious discussion with her, let her know that by ignoring your needs the marriage is in jeopardy. Good luck, it did not work for me but the LD in my past marriage was my ex husband, far harder to salvage a sexual mismatch when the LD is the male.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> .
> That just us. I know a lot of women are going to blow up about not saying no to sex. But it works for us and we are still smiling and loving each other after all these years.


Why would a lot of women blow up about not saying no to sex? In my circle there would not be one woman that does not have a healthy sex drive. My anecdotal evidence says that men are the LD as much if not more than women.


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