# Who is the selfish one?



## wifewifewife (Apr 8, 2012)

Who is the more selfish one - the wife who does not want sex as often as the man so he has to settle for once a week or so, or the husband who wants sex every day so the wife complies? Is the wife more selfish because she denies him frequent sex (but they do have sex at least once a week), or is the husband more selfish because he shames her into having sex more often than she has the desire? What are the ramifications of each?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

It depends. If the wife wants sex once a week and refuses to make accommodation for the husband, then she is more selfish. If the husband insists on daily sex knowing the wife isn't interested, then he is more selfish.

The ramifications are the same on both sides. Resentment. A wife who is having sex more than she wants may feel that her husband is only interested in her for sex. So resentment builds. A husband whose wife refuses him sex will feel unloved for anything more than his paycheck. So resentment builds.

Communication can help avoid resentment. If the wife is uninterested in frequent sex because she is overwhelmed with housework, she may find her husband to be a willing helper. So she feels less stressed, less resentful, and more attracted to her husband. If the husband can communicate that he experiences and expresses love for his wife through sex, he may find his wife more willing. That means husband is happier and less resentful.

Hope you can work things out and meet each other's needs.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

wifewifewife said:


> Who is the more selfish one - the wife who does not want sex as often as the man so he has to settle for once a week or so, or the husband who wants sex every day so the wife complies? Is the wife more selfish because she denies him frequent sex (but they do have sex at least once a week), or is the husband more selfish because he shames her into having sex more often than she has the desire? What are the ramifications of each?


It's a catch 22. First of all marriage implies that you are going to be faithful to each other and exclusive sexual partners. It's the whole meaning behind forsaking all others in the vows. It makes us dependent on each other because we vowed not to go elsewhere. That is an awesome commitment that requires each person to follow through not only with exclusivity but also being available to each other. When you marry, your body is supposed to be offered as a gift to each other. What you have belongs to the other. When you resend that gift for whatever reason, it's going to cause issues in the relationship, period. I would bet it already has. 

Rather than pointing fingers at "who" is selfish (which I think is a rather red herring argument in an of itself), may I offer this. You're selfish if you know your partner has a need, are capable of meeting it (feelings aside) and you do not meet it, regardless of what the need is or the reason you choose to rationalize not meeting that need. Each partner in the marriage has the responsibility to take care of the other person in whatever way they need to the best of their ability. We should give our partner the best of what we have, not the leftovers after everything else we want to do is taken care of first.

I would guess that you feel resentment for having to submit to your husband and feel he's selfish for making you do something you don't want to do. It's all a matter of perspective. You can look at your husbands desire to be with you as a gift or something to resent him for. If you look on this site, you're going to find a whole lot of women who would trade places with you in a heartbeat. I'd trade my wife's perspective with some of theirs in a heartbeat if I could. Their husbands don't show any interest in them. My wife shows little interest in me and I'm a good man. It sucks being married to someone who has no interest in you sexually and see's you as the problem. It's a losing attitude and my unshakable marriage is not nearly as good, strong and robust as it was or should be. 

It's all a matter of perspective. Do you want someone else taking care of your husband? That's where lack of faithfulness in the bedroom leads. Not taking care of your responsibilities will inevitability open up your relationship for someone else to handle it for you or take him from you at worst, create tension, separation and resentment at the very least.

I would suggest that you take the approach to find a solution and fix what's behind the lack of desire rather than see it as a problem that he want's to be with you. That IS NOT a problem. That's how it should be. If it is JUST a lack of desire and nothing else going on, get to a doctor and get checked out. If its being too tired because he doesn't help with housework/kids, then he's gotta step up. If sex is boring, spice it up. Whatever the issue is, deal with the root cause and move forward. Don't let the problem go and let resentment damage or destroy your relationship further.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I think it goes back and forth in our relationship.

At times I feel guilty and selfish for asking for sex (though she doesn't see it that way thankfully), especially when I know she's not in the mood or if we've had sex within the past 24/48 hours.

My wife was at times selfish for the first 12 years or so of our marriage, before she allowed herself to be more open to sex for my sake.


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## wifewifewife (Apr 8, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> It's a catch 22. First of all marriage implies that you are going to be faithful to each other and exclusive sexual partners. It's the whole meaning behind forsaking all others in the vows. It makes us dependent on each other because we vowed not to go elsewhere. That is an awesome commitment that requires each person to follow through not only with exclusivity but also being available to each other. When you marry, your body is supposed to be offered as a gift to each other. What you have belongs to the other. When you resend that gift for whatever reason, it's going to cause issues in the relationship, period. I would bet it already has.
> 
> Rather than pointing fingers at "who" is selfish (which I think is a rather red herring argument in an of itself), may I offer this. You're selfish if you know your partner has a need, are capable of meeting it (feelings aside) and you do not meet it, regardless of what the need is or the reason you choose to rationalize not meeting that need. Each partner in the marriage has the responsibility to take care of the other person in whatever way they need to the best of their ability. We should give our partner the best of what we have, not the leftovers after everything else we want to do is taken care of first.
> 
> ...


Clearly from the man's perspective. I'd be interested in hearing from other women too.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I've read that the fundamental flaws in young men and young women are selfishness and egocentrism respectively.

Both are necessary to fully mature and become adults. A strong sense of self motivates us to quit relying on our parents to provide for us materially and a strong sense of ego helps us to challenge the ideals and values of our parents and become unique adults in our own rite.

The problem is that both of these qualities persist well into adulthood. A selfish person has greater concern for their own desires than the needs of others and and egocentric person has greater concern for their own needs than the desires of others. 

Your scenario strikes me as a good example of both qualities at work.


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## wifewifewife (Apr 8, 2012)

I think I'll add to my post - I guess it wasn't hard to figure out that I'm talking of my own relationship, but after a very long marriage (over 30 years) sex for him has become just sex -not "making love" but "having sex". At this point in my life and at my age, that's not what I need. I need sex that feels like love. Tender sex with the words "I love you" thrown in. All I can think is that he love sex more than he loves me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I can see where you're at, and I can see where you want to be. But I don't think that the mindset that your husband is selfish will get you where you need to go. I wish I knew what would get you there. But I know that that won't.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

wifewifewife said:


> I think I'll add to my post - I guess it wasn't hard to figure out that I'm talking of my own relationship, but after a very long marriage (over 30 years) sex for him has become just sex -not "making love" but "having sex". At this point in my life and at my age, that's not what I need. I need sex that feels like love. Tender sex with the words "I love you" thrown in. All I can think is that he love sex more than he loves me.


Sounds like you two could seriously use a 2nd honeymoon or something. An extended little vacation for two to somewhere wonderful.

I know for me just the process of trying to get my wife in the mood can at times become so sensual and thrilling. I also love it when I get to see her throughout the day, but don't have time to ML just yet. She's just on my mind, and my feelings for her grow and grow throughout the day. Both of those things bring the romantic out in me.

It's not selfish though to want him to make love to you rather than just "boink". That's an unfulfilled need of yours.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

wifewifewife said:


> Clearly from the man's perspective. I'd be interested in hearing from other women too.



Have you expressed to him that you would like more of the tender-type lovemaking?

My dh isn't a talker, so he won't initiate saying "I love you" _during_ sex, but he'll say it back during if I say it first. I can't ever remember a time when he hasn't said it immediately after, though.

We're both HD so the frequency isn't an issue for us, but if there is a time when one or the other isn't really *in the mood*, as the saying goes, we'll accomodate each other if we can.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

wifewifewife said:


> I think I'll add to my post - I guess it wasn't hard to figure out that I'm talking of my own relationship, but after a very long marriage (over 30 years) sex for him has become just sex -not "making love" but "having sex". At this point in my life and at my age, that's not what I need. I need sex that feels like love. Tender sex with the words "I love you" thrown in. All I can think is that he love sex more than he loves me.


That absolutely clarifies things. You're entitled to your needs to be met in the bedroom as much as he is. It should be an easy solution if that's the only issue. Have you told him what you need and how you feel?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

wifewifewife said:


> Clearly from the man's perspective. I'd be interested in hearing from other women too.


Since you are a woman, I imagine that you are already clear on the female perspective. I think a man's perspective would be more valuable to you in order to solve your problem.

If all you're looking for is validation for your current state of mind, then you are the one being selfish.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

wifewifewife said:


> I think I'll add to my post - I guess it wasn't hard to figure out that I'm talking of my own relationship, but after a very long marriage (over 30 years) sex for him has become just sex -not "making love" but "having sex". At this point in my life and at my age, that's not what I need. I need sex that feels like love. Tender sex with the words "I love you" thrown in. All I can think is that he love sex more than he loves me.


You need to tell him your feelings in clear language. He may have just gotten lazy and sees quick and dirty sex as being easier than a romantic love-making session. If so, it shouldn't be too hard to get him to put more effort in when he knows you need more.

He may prefer non-romantic sex as being sexier. If so, then maybe you can mix it up. Wednesday is quickie night for hubby. Saturday is romantic night for you.

Most husbands are willing to do what their wives ask of them, as long as their wives are willing to ask it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

So he's getting sex 1x a week but wants it 7 times a week

You want to have sex with him maybe 1x a week but you're doing it 7x a week for him. I'm also sure that you're really not into it either during these times and it is a chore for you (and he probably knows this)

What about telling him you will compromise at 3x a week and you'll be totally into it and rock his world? Hell I'd kill for that!

A man wants to be wanted by his wife. Why don't you try initiating for a change and then maybe he won't view you as someone to simply provide him with a release.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

What of the opposite situation, like I'm in as the wife..


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Ah...the age old "women want more intimacy, men want more sex" problem. We really need to learn each others needs. Men and women are wired differently (generally speaking). This requires WORK and so often one or the other is not willing to do the work. The work is either reading some books together that explain the differences or counseling. We have been to counseling and have been reading together for 30 years. Books like: His Needs, Her Needs; Mars and Venus in the Bedroom; The Five Love Languages; etc. I had to learn that my wife needed to feel emotionally close to me to desire me physically. The thing is, if he was romancing you, making love to you, and meeting your emotional needs, you, in turn, would probably be jumping his bones way more often. In my opinion, the woman is the responder so it is up to the guys first.

All of that precludes any other major problems in the relationship.


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

wifewifewife said:


> I think I'll add to my post - I guess it wasn't hard to figure out that I'm talking of my own relationship, but after a very long marriage (over 30 years) sex for him has become just sex -not "making love" but "having sex". At this point in my life and at my age, that's not what I need. I need sex that feels like love. Tender sex with the words "I love you" thrown in. All I can think is that he love sex more than he loves me.


So how long has this been going on? Or has it always been like this?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's a catch 22.

The wife wants more intimacy. He wants more sex. If he gives her more intimacy and thus is more into love making, he will most likely get more sex.

The problem is that in this case the wife can give him all the sex he wants and thus meet his needs. But her needs will not be met with more sex.

What exactly do you need from your husband in the way of more intimacy and 'love making’? Can you put into words what you need?


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

If the two have different libidos then its all about compromise.

He wants it daily, she 2 x a week. If it says at that then BOTH are being selfish.

If he tones it down and she ups the ante and they compromise on 3-4 times a week, then everything is hunky dory.

I'd like 2-3 times a week, my wife is 'happy' with maybe once a month. She won't try to compromise... = she's being selfish.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The wife wants more intimacy. He wants more sex. If he gives her more intimacy and thus is more into love making, he will most likely get more sex.


Most men don't just want sex. They want sexual intimacy. They want their wives to want to have sex with them. Many men in sexless marriages will refuse sex if their wives offer sex in an obviously begrudging manner.



EleGirl said:


> The problem is that in this case the wife can give him all the sex he wants and thus meet his needs. But her needs will not be met with more sex.


Not necessarily. If the OP is currently having sex once a week in a "let's hurry up and get this over with" fashion, then she's meeting her husband's need for physical release. But, she's not meeting his emotional need for sexual intimacy.

If she starts acting like she enjoys having sex with her husband, he will likely feel a renewed interest in the marriage and may start expressing this interest in ways that she values.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Most men don't just want sex. They want sexual intimacy. They want their wives to want to have sex with them. Many men in sexless marriages will refuse sex if their wives offer sex in an obviously begrudging manner.


I've found this to be very true, it's one of the reasons we started seeing a sex therapist. It bothers me that often times when we do have sex she just doesn't want it, and by extension I feel in my heart that she doesn't want me. From that all sorts of negative thoughts flow.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

wifewifewife said:


> Who is the more selfish one - the wife who does not want sex as often as the man so he has to settle for once a week or so, or the husband who wants sex every day so the wife complies? Is the wife more selfish because she denies him frequent sex (but they do have sex at least once a week), or is the husband more selfish because he shames her into having sex more often than she has the desire? What are the ramifications of each?


I normally think that it does no good to try and do "score keeping" in trying to determine who is more selfish or not.

Everybody is selfish. Period. That's just the way humans are.

The key, I think, is to try and learn how to be more giving to your spouse ... and in a marriage it requires there to be some amount of compromise and/or sacrifice on both partner's part in order to make the marriage work.

What if you had asked the question not "who is the selfish one?" but "who has the most giving heart?" and look at it from the perspective of freely giving, instead of selfishly getting?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

phantomfan said:


> Rather than pointing fingers at "who" is selfish (which I think is a rather red herring argument in an of itself), may I offer this. You're selfish if you know your partner has a need, are capable of meeting it (feelings aside) and you do not meet it, regardless of what the need is or the reason you choose to rationalize not meeting that need.


One of the best posts I've ever read on TAM. And this is applicable to all needs in relationships, not just sex.

:iagree:


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

A man in a marriage must meet his wife's emotional needs to the level that SHE needs them met.

A woman in a marriage must meet her husband's emotional needs to the level that HE needs them met.

This is the key to a happy marriage. 

It is the death knell for a marriage for someone to decide to meet their partner's needs only to the level that they "feel like" meeting them.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Not necessarily. If the OP is currently having sex once a week in a "let's hurry up and get this over with" fashion, then she's meeting her husband's need for physical release. But, she's not meeting his emotional need for sexual intimacy.
> 
> If she starts acting like she enjoys having sex with her husband, he will likely feel a renewed interest in the marriage and may start expressing this interest in ways that she values.


I would also note that the lack of sex can cause people to withdraw from other physical intimacy for a couple of reasons. When we were not having sex often, any physical touching with my wife resulted in a certain uncontrollable physical reaction on my part. I could not control it, and she interpreted it as me trying for sex again, rather than just being with her. Add to it, I could not help but wonder every time we did interact whether this was a sign that she was interested. Even regular conversations where we were connecting on one level made me wonder whether she wanted to connect on a different level. Since sex was infrequent, I would usually end up disappointed and a bit resentful. To avoid feeling that way, I tended to stay away from the type of contact. I did not want to feel like that about my wife, so I tried to avoid situations that would lead up to that.

I won’t defend my handling of this situation, as I really messed up a lot back then. I did want to note that with more sex, I would have felt freer to give her some of the other intimacy that she needed. I suspect that this holds true for a number of men (though certainly not all).


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