# Picking up the pieces after OM, suicide threat



## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Fair warning - this post is long. 

Where to start? I've been a lurker here for the last couple of months and have been mostly hanging out in the "coping with infidelity" section. I've read a lot of wise words from many here that have opened my eyes to my behavior. I've followed the cheaters script at times and have a husband that has had multiple D days. I'm afraid I may be toxic for him now, and that he is not strong enough to look out for his own health and mental well-being. That said, I love him and don't want our relationship to go under. We're in our late 30's and have been married 16 years.

Anyway, from the beginning. 

Since early 2013 my husband has made comments about wanting to see me with another man and that he would like to be with another woman. At first, this was fantasy talk, but as the months went by, he became more serious about it. Being with other people (or cheating) had never been on my radar so my first reaction was of course, NO!

He left me alone about it and let the idea percolate. I knew he was a bit dissatisfied with our sex life. I felt that I had low drive, but wasn't sure. And I've always been a pleaser, so I decided to look into open marriage and swinging. I did a ton of research, read all the happy "it can work" stories on the internet, did some soul searching, and decided that we could give it a try. 

Fast forwarding....

I met a guy right away and hubby was pleased. Had a couple threesomes, and we all enjoyed ourselves. I was surprised. The OM was in training to be a firefighter and worked in search and rescue, also had a side business that kept him busy and he didn't have time for a relationship, so this was perfect for him. I liked him well enough that hubby didn't have a problem with me getting together with him on my own. He loved when I'd come home from OM and still be excited and jump him in bed. Wanted to hear all the details, etc....

Hubby finds a girlfriend.

Nice woman, had been married before and was not looking for a real relationship, just some fun. Had 5 kids and a heart condition. Hubby would come home telling me every excruciating detail of their encounters and I told him several times that I didn't need to know everything. This led to our first fight since the marriage had opened. 

As I became closer to the OM and it became more of a relationship, I didn't want to share as many sexual details. I wanted some sort of privacy in the relationship, but my husband wanted to "follow my journey". He admitted to getting off on hearing details and he said he's a bit voyeuristic... especially since OM and I started a D/s relationship when we got interested in kink. 

It got pretty bad after we had been to a few play parties and my husband scened 3 times without anyone there to make sure he was okay afterwards. There's a natural high you get from impact/sensation play and he did two electric scenes and a flogging scene with no one there to make sure he got proper aftercare and didn't spiral into "sub drop". OM and I had been at the same party, but we had left earlier in the night to go back to his place as it was our night to be together. I saw my husband do the first mild scene but he was fine when we left and I didn't know he planned on anything more.

Because of the rough time he had with the subdrop after the party that evening, he became hyper vigilant about what kink I was doing with the OM. He said he was worried about me, but didn't say that in the beginning. It just came out as controlling, and as OM and I weren't doing a lot of stuff that would get me into subspace, I asked my husband to trust that I knew what I was doing. He eventually came to me and said that I needed to tell him about the kink or end the relationship. I said I'd end the relationship, but that I would be resentful. He backed down. 

Yeah, I know 

So, at that point I saw myself as still trying to win an argument and I didn't see that I had made a decision between hubby and OM. Hubby saw it, though. I had one more night with OM that week, and when I went there I discussed the incident with OM but played it down and didn't mention that hubby and I had briefly mentioned divorce. The next day, hubby gets together with OM, tells him what's going on, tells him he recorded our last night together with spy apps on my phone, and that hubby and I had mentioned divorce.

OM calls me up and says, you were less than honest with me, and that I was emotionally blackmailing hubby with the comment about being resentful. He reminded me that he had told us early on that if there were signs our marriage was in trouble, then he was out. He said "get therapy", and "adios" and I was officially dumped. And totally deserved it. (I know how bad this sounds, I've had lots of come to Jesus moments)

My husband and I start marriage counseling with a poly/kink aware therapist and honestly it didn't really help us out. We talked about our situations and hubby, incredibly, after all this, wanted to get back to a place where we'd be open again. Hubby started having panic attacks and anxiety around the time I got dumped and rightfully so. He felt that I had chosen another man over him and it's only now that I can admit that I did. 

About half a month after the open marriage ends, I find out I'm pregnant. Which was a shocker because early in the open marriage when everyone had gotten tested for STDS, we decided that I would get a tubal ligation so that we could ditch the condoms. It's an easy in and out surgery and insurace paid all but $100, so why not? I had the clamps put on, and since hubby already had a vasectomy, we were good to go. Apparently not.... 

When I found I was pregnant I knew immediately my risk for an ectopic pregnancy was sky high. I went in and had it confirmed. It was in my fallopian tube. I had another surgery to remove the pregnancy and get my tubes cauterized. Hubby had had his semen tested, so we knew his vasectomy was still tied up tight. It was OMs. I won't even go into the emotional upheaval this caused. Hubby and I discussed keeping the baby if it was a viable pregnancy, but I was on the fence. I'm glad I didn't have to decide to end it or not. It had to be removed.

(At this point, if you want to write me off as a lost cause, go ahead and stop reading. But, it gets worse.........)

Hubby decides that the last time I must've slept with OM was after I said I did because of my period and when I got pregnant. I admit, it didn't look good. (Sex on last day of period, unusual to get pregnant that way) But I didn't cheat. Even though the relationship had ended, hubby still had panic attacks. I had to take him and the family on a trip I had planned with a girlfriend because he completely broke down right before I was going out the door to pick her up at the airport. 

Fast forwarding again. Hubby wants to keep the marriage open. I admit, I wanted to , too. I missed OM. Hubby was getting interested in the kink and felt like he got the short end of the stick because my relationship was kinky but his wasn't. (And his relationship ended after a couple months because she found out he was telling me all these sexual details about him and her that I didn't want to know). I also was a bit resentful because he wanted me to do all this kink with him that I wasn't sure I felt comfortable doing since he was my husband and we were equal partners in the marriage. Looking back, I was too resistant because really, who else could he have tried these things with? It's hard for guys to find other partners, especially ones that want to dominate men. Or be submissive to them. 

Ugh, I'm cringing already and haven't even gotten to the worst part. 
We decide to open the marriage back up. I get back together with OM and hubby is iffy but okay with it. He said, "it makes you happy and I want you to be happy - I'll try to "own my feelings"... At this point, I should have said no, lets not do this... but we did. OM agreed, thinking we'd worked past our issues with therapy and hubby and I genuinely did think we'd worked out some of the issues. We decided I'd give him the highlights of my dates but not the nitty gritty details (so I could fee I had some privacy) and he'd try to be okay with that. 

A week after being together with OM, hubby has a massive panic attack and I say, "you know what? this is ridiculous, I'm calling this all off" Open marriage is now closed. Again. So, we're done. I think everything will go back to normal. Hubby is relieved. Genie, back to your bottle!!!

Nope. Hubby starts getting paranoid about my conversations with my friends and family. During this time I was having a hard time being with him. He was clingly, desperately needy, and really needed reassurance that I still loved him and I tried, but he seemed to need the physical release of orgasm to make him feel better and calm him. It made me feel used. Like toilet used. He also went onto anti-depressents during this time. I vented to my friends about my unhappiness and one morning after I'd gone to coffee with my friend the night before, she texts me at 6am saying your husband woke me up this morning asking me if you'd talked about your marriage to me. 

I confronted him and said I needed to be able to vent to friends. Stop spying on me. He said, "please come to me with anything important" and I DID, but why would I tell him that I wasn't sure of my feelings for him anymore? It would hurt him. I had fallen in love with OM and was going through a grieving process. I was upset he was spying on me. 

Then, my dad had a fall, and went into the hospital. My sister and I had power or attorney over his affairs, so we flew down and were down there about a month getting him moved into assisted living. After the first four days with me gone, my husband was getting drunk and high. He said his triggers were lonliness and me. I had the kids with me in Arizona so he was alone. The fifth night he calls (on my sons birthday) and says I'm deliberately shutting him out of his special day - not true. We took them to icecream because we were so busy. Nothing much happened. The call escalates when he says that he just listened to a recording between me and my friend and my sister that had occurred the night before.

I shut down. This was actually the third time he had spied on me and I was through. I didn't care anymore. He sensed it, I suppose. I think I even said, "I'm through" The call escalates and he now is telling me he has his 9mm XDS to his head and is going to blow his brains out. I call the cops, but he's left the house by the time they get there. Bizarrely, he calls OM, who's also got EMT training because of the search and rescue. OM tells him to go to the hospital and check himself in, because the cops will force him if he doesn't go voluntarily. Hubby gets checked into the mental hospital. 

So, I'm in the midst of settling my fathers affairs and worrying about my husband. I get whispered calls from hubby, saying "this place is AWFUL" He refuses to take some pills they give him at first, wanting to know what they are for and it doesn't look good for him getting out. He finally complies and during this time too, his mom flies out to help. I'm stuck in AZ and what could I really do if I flew back home? His best friend calls me a turd. Whatever. I've got my dad in the hospital and in and out of rehabs. His mom and best friend work out a plan to get all the guns out of the house, which was no small feat. We're avid hunters and firearms enthusiasts. They were incredibly supportive during this time.

After hubby is released, he's missing the kids terribly so flies down to AZ to see me. I tell him I'm not ready to talk about anything. He pushes conversation on me and it doesn't go well. I say I want a divorce. He says he'll just walk away from his job, 401K and everything and leave it to me. I tell him that would hurt the kids tremendously. He calls the kids over (which I tried to prevent) and asks them who they want to live with? Mom or dad? Pissed me off. He decides he wants my phone. It's my lifeline because I'm dealing with my dads situation but he wants to listen to my conversations (he admitted afterwards) and so I say no. He rings the phone, I run to get it first, and he chases me down and we tussle on a bed over it. 

I was scared and trying to get him off me. My sister is trying to drag him off me, the kids are in the hallway crying watching it all go down. He doesn't hurt me in the physical sense. Wrenches the phone away and I grab the phone and call 911. He breaks the phone after arguing with my sister and the cops come and kick him out of the house since sis and I had POA over dads property. I'm a wreck and crying, the kids are crying and I'm determined to divorce him. He flies home. 

A few days later he contacts me saying please lets not divorce, lets do a separation first. I agree and the plan is that he'll be out of the house and living in our trailer. So, we're separated. I still have a week to finish up in AZ by myself. Against my better wishes I allowed him to take the kids back home. Despite the altercation with the phone, he was more or less stable. And I knew the kids would ground him. But during this time, I want to someone to commiserate with so I turned to craigslist and dumped on a couple guys that were also married. I started sexting and after a week was up, I told them "bye" and started packing for home. 

The day before I leave to fly home, hubby tells me he's not moved out, because everyone tells him to stay in the home if he wants to save the marriage and he's worried I'll run down to the courthouse and accuse him of abandonment, which I wouldn't do. I'm upset and insist he at least sleep in the computer room. For two months, we sleep apart. I'm pissed still, but he's on good meds and has been diagnosed as being bipolar. The mild kind. Things start to level out, in all ways.

This is when trickle truth starts happening. My dad gave me some extra money that I didn't tell hubby about. I wanted to keep some in reserve in case of divorce. Hubby asked if I had extra, and I lied. But then I fessed up to that. He asked if I sexted guys, I said no, he discovered proof, then I said yes, asked if I sent pics, I said no (and I just want to say here that I didn't want to hurt him with the details - I already felt some guilt but still a lot of anger) he got proof, and I admitted. He even tracked one of the guys down and texted him asking for details. The guy insinuated that something more happened (he was in CA and I was in AZ) so hubby thinks I had a physical affair. 

I've had an STD test done recently, so ruled out STDs (this in the wake of a bacterial infection with is very common in women) because hubby thought the infection was proof I'd slept with this guy in AZ. I told him even women who are virgins can get this particular infection. He started asking me if I was getting myself off (when we were still sleeping apart) and I said yeah, some. When he kept asking repeatedly I got suspicious and said, "are you spying on my vibrator or something?" Yup, he was. Checking to see if it had moved a fraction on an inch. Jesus. 

So, right now we are more or less okay. I've admitted that I still love him, and I do - I was just so hurt and mad at him. And reading lots of threads has made me come to grips with my own culpability in this charade that has been the last year and a half of our life. I wasn't willing to share as much in the beginning, which drove hubby to try to pull me in, and that caused me to push away. He shouldn't have recorded me with my friend and sister, but I feel as though in a way I drove him to it. When he first mentioned having a suicidal thought (way before the gun incident) I should have pulled the plug on the OM. (No ****, Sherlock)

I think he needs to create better boundaries for himself. He's too wrapped up in my happiness at the expense of his own. He has no friends and never goes out. He's a very nice guy. His love language is touch, mine is words of affirmation. I know that the physical separation with separate rooms killed him, but we're now in the same bed again and having regular sex. I'm in IC and he was, but has stopped. I've encouraged him to go again and he says he will when I can start driving again. We are both in MC with another counselor. Unfortunately she likes to talk more than listen. Early October I had a grand mal seizure out of the blue and can't drive until beginning of January. I also had shingles. Fun. 

He's expressed concern that my dad and I have conspired to keep a chunk of my inheritance away from him. And he's worried I'll finish my education and run away the minute I have degree in hand. I wouldn't do that. 

I've recently told him how sorry and I for the part I played in what's happened to us and admitted that I have a lot of work to do on myself. He cried in my arms. I've given him passwords to my accounts so that he can see that I'm not hiding money, or having inappropriate conversations with men. He said he's afraid to look. I told him too, that I was willing to take a polygraph (an idea from this site) and he just said that they're easy to beat.  At least he admitted to appreciating that I would be willing to do it. Because I've never cheated on him. I've never had sex with anyone when it wasn't scheduled in as a date on our shared calendar.

I think he needs to read No More Mr. Nice Guy, but I'm unsure of how I'd get him to read it. If I hand it to him, he probably won't read it. And he hardly reads anyway. I need him to either find a way to trust me again, or... I don't know. As I told you and my counselor, I'm feeling as though I'm toxic to him. I'm one big walking trigger and I'm feeling incredibly responsible for what's happened. He's told me before that he doesn't want a divorce... but he has to live with what I've said to him and what he's overheard. That will always eat at him. I almost feel like he'd be healthier if he did divorce me. But we have three kids and he his self worth is low. He's said in the past that he felt lucky to have found a girlfriend when we were open and that I and the kids are his life and he'd never find anyone else because he's not the typical tall, dark and handsome. 

I think he's also worried I'd rape him over custody, what with the stay in the mental institution. But he says he loves me. I just want him to eventually be happy with the decision to stay with me, and if he can't, then let me go. 

I know I'll get blasted with this post, and I totally deserve it. I'm not a masochist, really. But in part, I wanted to get the whole thing down somewhere where it could be useful to others and constructive to me. 

And one last thing - hubby just a couple nights ago asked me if I'd ever want to do another threesome. I can't believe he still wants to be open! And it would be us doing everything together, he says. But I need to shut that down. He can go to bdsm play parties and get crazy if he wants... but we CANNOT be having sex with other people if we're ever going to heal. 

OMG I think I'm done. Have at me.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

As much wrong as you may have done, I'm guessing that a mentally stable person could have handled it. OR... it wasn't wrong until you were forced into a bad situation by that mentally unstable person.

Personally I feel that you should have called a halt to everything once he stopped IC. He needs it more than you. Of course we're only getting your side of the story but let's assume everything you have told us is true (but then again you really didn't really try to paint a flattering picture of yourself).


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Jesus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jetzon (Mar 16, 2015)

wow , ive got to read this again , very interesting !!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

JFC. Neither or you is suited for marriage, whether open, closed, or otherwise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm sorry you're having problems. Have to admit that I didn't make it more than half way through.

Hey, Gus, can you channel Uncle Buck for me? Really would enjoy seeing it before Christmas.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sorry, stopped reading at "scenes" and "sub drop" since I haven't the slightest idea what any of that means.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

WOW!!! just wow....believe or not i have a good friend that is not too far from your story and they are celebrating there 33 years of marriage. here is the important thing and was mention earlier, for the sake of your husband health and your marriage you need to keep it closed, you need to work on two things first forgiving yourself and then you both then to learn to love one another. But don't stay because of guilt, stay because you hove him, stay because you see a future together. and when he brings up threesomes, remind him that part of your lives is closed and now it about each other.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm sorry you're having problems. Have to admit that I didn't make it more than half way through.
> 
> Hey, Gus, can you channel Uncle Buck for me? Really would enjoy seeing it before Christmas.


Huh?

Oh... sure thing. Lemme finish up in the kitchen first...


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Your husband is still very unstable. Do not get involved with a third party. You did and got emotionally involved. You were not made for that life! You attach emotionally to others. This will mess you up and your kids need at least one sane parent.

Your husband needs to stay on meds and counseling. His depression is making him seek outside sources to deal with his internal turmoil. He is truly spiraling downward with the routes he is seeking. He will lose everything including his sanity. 

If you still have some power over him, make him aware of the fact that sharing you with others causes toxic attachments with those others in you. He is playing with fire. You guys got burned and are seeking more of the same. Stop this crazy path he set both of you on. You are the only one that can help yourself and hopefully help him see that opening the marriage will only destroy it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Huh?
> 
> Oh... sure thing. Lemme finish up in the kitchen first...


Snow shovel tO flip Paul Bunyan pancakes!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Totally agree with Bibi. You are the domme, OP. You need to take charge and make the rules. No more third parties. 

And I would stay away from play parties and the like. Just commit to good old-fashioned monogamous family life.

I was wondering if some sort of 12 step program would be helpful for you two. MB forums might help, also. @RoseAglow might be able to comment on that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If this is real, then you should be seriously ashamed of yourself for turning your life into this while you are raising children. Unbelievable. Those poor kids.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You have three children and you engaged in this type of swinging lifestyle? Where do you find the time? You have played with fire and both of you got burnt. You are living a miserable life.

You need to see a psychologist and take your mind in the right direction. Be done with your lover and your husband. They are both toxic to your well-being. Focus on the welfare of your children.

You need to claim your self-respect. You are batted back and forth, from your lover to your husband. Your life is out of control. You need to see a psychologist as soon as possible and set your mind at rest.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I will never understand why people purposely complicate their lives.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> Your husband is still very unstable. Do not get involved with a third party. You did and got emotionally involved. You were not made for that life! You attach emotionally to others. This will mess you up and your kids need at least one sane parent.
> 
> Your husband needs to stay on meds and counseling. His depression is making him seek outside sources to deal with his internal turmoil. He is truly spiraling downward with the routes he is seeking. He will lose everything including his sanity.
> 
> If you still have some power over him, make him aware of the fact that sharing you with others causes toxic attachments with those others in you. He is playing with fire. You guys got burned and are seeking more of the same. Stop this crazy path he set both of you on. You are the only one that can help yourself and hopefully help him see that opening the marriage will only destroy it.



Thank you, I agree with everything here. I am not intending to open our marriage again. I'm staying in counseling and will encourage him to go back and start again. 



jld said:


> Totally agree with Bibi. You are the domme, OP. You need to take charge and make the rules. No more third parties.
> 
> And I would stay away from play parties and the like. Just commit to good old-fashioned monogamous family life.
> 
> I was wondering if some sort of 12 step program would be helpful for you two. MB forums might help, also. @RoseAglow might be able to comment on that.


JLD, yes, addiction was crossing my mind. Now that I've been exposed it's hard to sometimes think it will never happen again. The rush of the open experience was amazing, but ultimately not worth all we put ourselves through. I agree that we should concentrate on ourselves and not go to the play parties. We've seen a woman lit on fire and she enjoyed herself. There's not much else that needs seeing after that!


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

no words


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> You have three children and you engaged in this type of swinging lifestyle? Where do you find the time? You have played with fire and both of you got burnt. You are living a miserable life.
> 
> You need to see a psychologist and take your mind in the right direction. Be done with your lover and your husband. They are both toxic to your well-being. Focus on the welfare of your children.
> 
> You need to claim your self-respect. You are batted back and forth, from your lover to your husband. Your life is out of control. You need to see a psychologist as soon as possible and set your mind at rest.


Roselyn, you are correct. We are both quite miserable. Our lives seem placid on the surface, but we're doing some rug sweeping. I'm trying to take responsibility and he appreciates it, but I know opening back up would be a death knell. I think he'd get depressed and spiral if he couldn't find a partner and I don't want to deal with that. I don't have the strength and I don't want him to be hurt again. He doesn't want to divorce, and I don't either. I'm hoping we can walk a path forward that allows both of us to find some sort of peace and contentment. Therapy can only help. I have an assignment from my therapist to try with him. A sheet of things that list priorities in a marriage. We'll rate each one as to their importance and then on how much we actually do those things. 

So many hobbies and activities were dropped when we were fixated on the open marriage. I'm just now getting back into playing piano and getting active again. I'm encouraging him to get involved too, so he can start making friends. I thought we were completely healthy people before this, both in mind and body. But we've quite wrecked ourselves. They say when you open a marriage you expose the foundation. And if there's any hairline fractures there, they can become jagged cracks very quickly.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Wrong site, wrong forum, move to Amsterdam!! You are most likely doomed emotionally. What if any prescription or elicit drugs are you on? Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

(Note to self: link this thread the next time someone asks about open marriage)


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

I am glad you are back together. Like others said here, work on your marriage, not 3some or kinky no nothing, because this kind of life is not for a mother of 3 young kids. To be honest I did not understand why you wanted to divorce in the first place, since he is not the only one to blame. I am happy for you , you are here for advice and, good for you since you are in counseling. You are on the right track. Good luck.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

RideofmyLife said:


> Roselyn, you are correct. We are both quite miserable. Our lives seem placid on the surface, but we're doing some rug sweeping. I'm trying to take responsibility and he appreciates it, but I know opening back up would be a death knell. I think he'd get depressed and spiral if he couldn't find a partner and I don't want to deal with that. I don't have the strength and I don't want him to be hurt again. He doesn't want to divorce, and I don't either. I'm hoping we can walk a path forward that allows both of us to find some sort of peace and contentment. Therapy can only help. I have an assignment from my therapist to try with him. A sheet of things that list priorities in a marriage. We'll rate each one as to their importance and then on how much we actually do those things.
> 
> So many hobbies and activities were dropped when we were fixated on the open marriage. I'm just now getting back into playing piano and getting active again. I'm encouraging him to get involved too, so he can start making friends. I thought we were completely healthy people before this, both in mind and body. But we've quite wrecked ourselves. They say when you open a marriage you expose the foundation. And if there's any hairline fractures there, they can become jagged cracks very quickly.


Like most of the others who have commented on your story, I don't actually have any advice to offer, but I do have a question.

Every single thing you have described as it relates to your husband paints him as, well, just about the most pathetic, contemptible bag of flesh that I have ever read of that is labeled "male of the species."

My question is, after everything this.... person has put you through in this sham of a marriage you are in, how can you look at him with anything but loathing?

I mean, how can you possibly look at this person and say "yep, I want to be with HIM for the rest of my years?"

Don't get me wrong, here. Cheating is horrible, and swingers are damaged and foolish, and you earned your own dose of misery, but damn if your husband wasn't right there with you, always looking to make the bad choices for both of you.

Why be with someone who brings out the worst in you?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truth be told, I don't believe her story is that uncommon. I've been to a swingers bar not knowing what it was and it was discusting. I'm still scarred. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

OP, I agree with jld, bibi, and several others. You are going to have to be the leader in your relationship. Your husband is mentally unstable at this time. Until he gets stable and remains so for a sustained period- I mean 9-12 months- you are the one in charge of your family's wellbeing.

First order of business is to quit beating yourself up. Yes, you just went through an extremely messed up situation. You are no more complicit in any of it than your husband. He wanted to open things up. You realized that the whole thing was a [email protected] You didn't handle it perfectly, but you handled it the best you knew how and it's done now because you had the good sense to end it. 

Please do not try to apply the normal "wayward" TAM to your situation. None of the betrayed spouses here asked their wayward to get with their affair partner. Your OM doesn't even qualify as an affair partner. You did not put the OM before your marriage. You had the perfectly normal reaction to having sex numerous times with the same person. Normal women develop feelings. You were having sex with someone else because your husband asked you to. It's a terrible idea but it is not in the same ballpark as an affair. 

In a normal affair the wayward is the danger to the marriage. You are not the danger to your marriage. Your *husband* remains the clear and present danger to your marriage. Your post talks about how wrong you've been and that you are trying to right things. I think it's good to own your issues but it's critical to realize that you got here by following your husbands lead. You can't "make it up to him" when he's the person who put you there.

He is not a mess because of what you've done. He is a mess because of what HE has done. 

It is super important for you to internalize that fact. You cannot rely on him to lead you out of this, or even willingly clean up this mess. He's not even capable right now of being a partner here, he still wants to stay in the situation. 

You are going to have to hold a very high bar here, I think. He SHOULD be terrified that you are going to leave him. If you were my sister I'd be encouraging you with everything I have to get the heck out of there until he got his sh#t together. IMO it's wrong to tell him that "you'd never do that" when he tells you that he's afraid that you're going to leave. If he keeps this up, you are going to have to leave him. He's knows that at some level. Are you really going to have your kids go through many more episodes? Of course not. 

So do the opposite. Here are your conditions for staying married. No more swinging, ever. He gets help and finds a way to stay safe and stable for the family. Once he stabilizes, you can go back to being partners.

You need him to rise to your expectations. I don't know if he can, but it sure doesn't sound like he's safe for you or your family if he can't. You are not going up help him here if you try to give him reassurances and unconditional love. He's an anxious mess because he knows it's not true. You can only help him by giving him the straight up truth and encouraging him to get help. 

I do generally encourage Marriage Builders for people. You could check it out online. It's a great and very effective plan/schematic for building romantic love in marriages. I would very strongly encourage you to read up in the basic concepts and then email the author. He's a clinical psychologist and would be able to give you some guidance. He and his wife have an Internet radio show, where they read emails or call the people who email to try to help them. It's a great free resource and they will honor your anonymity. I think they will be able to give you much better guidance than us Internet peeps. 

I think you're a smart and strong woman who trusted her husband. You are very willing (too willing, IMO) to take ownership of marital problems. If you're willing, I think your certainly able to lead your family back to stability.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

#1. You should be doing your kink with your husband! 
#2. Open marriage is still adultry!


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

RoseAglow said:


> You need him to rise to your expectations. I don't know if he can, but it sure doesn't sound like he's safe for you or your family if he can't. You are not going up help him here if you try to give him reassurances and unconditional love. He's an anxious mess because he knows it's not true. You can only help him by giving him the straight up truth and encouraging him to get help.
> 
> I do generally encourage Marriage Builders for people. You could check it out online. It's a great and very effective plan/schematic for building romantic love in marriages. I would very strongly encourage you to read up in the basic concepts and then email the author. He's a clinical psychologist and would be able to give you some guidance. He and his wife have an Internet radio show, where they read emails or call the people who email to try to help them. It's a great free resource and they will honor your anonymity. I think they will be able to give you much better guidance than us Internet peeps.
> 
> I think you're a smart and strong woman who trusted her husband. You are very willing (too willing, IMO) to take ownership of marital problems. If you're willing, I think your certainly able to lead your family back to stability.


RoseAglow, thank you! I will check into the Marriage Builders. My IC therapist also gave me some papers on "Acceptance and Mindfulness" approaches, and recommended a book called The Mindful Way Through Depression, because there's certainly our share of that around here. 

Like I said, everything's evened out a bit, and honestly I posted here in this forum knowing that it wasn't quite the right fit, but where else could I post?? lol I mean, even the dysfunctional relationships I've read about on this site seem normal in comparison to what I've gone through. And I knew I'd get some advice that could potentially help our situation, so thank you!. I appreciate the considerate and helpful posts so far.

My husband is going to go back to counseling the first of the year. And I'll have the discussion with him about our marriage staying closed soon, as well. After Christmas, most likely. I'm going to stand firm on those boundaries.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OMG!
The open marriage thing is not for you guys. Ironically your H got what he wanted but it opened a can of worms. What did he expect, you play with fire you get burnt.
You also have kids thrown into this mix, what were you thinking? Your poor kids witnessing all of the drama, parents do not act like this.

Glad you both do not want a divorce, that is the beginning of a long hard process back to a healthy recovery of your marriage.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Yeah, he's not mentally equipped to make any decisions in your relationship. He's on a path of self-destruction. Follow him if you want, but there's a lot of self-loathing and misery where that path leads.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It is rare when a thread shocks me. Folks, this one takes the cake. 

OP you mention the word "love" many times in your thread. Please stop using that word. It is an insult to people here who truly understand what it means and the responsibility it carries. 

There is no "love" anywhere in your story. You and your husband are emotional infants. Neither one of you understands or fathoms what mature, responsible love is. If you had, you and he would have never walked hand in hand into this madness. I blame him for asking you to do it and I blame you for doing it and then acting offended when it all blew up and collapsed on top of you. 

Get a divorce. Get a divorce and the two of you have nothing to do with one another except share the kids. You are toxic to one another and no amount of marriage counseling or therapy is going to fix this. I have never seen two people blow it worse than you two have blown it. You are both equally to blame, equally culpable. 

Threads like this piss me off! If I was the king of the world I would have you two locked up for what you did. 

I'm I being judgemental? You bet. You and your husband have been weighed in the balances and found lacking.....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

breeze said:


> Yeah, he's not mentally equipped to make any decisions in your relationship. He's on a path of self-destruction. Follow him if you want, but there's a lot of self-loathing and misery where that path leads.


Are you fvcking kidding? She's no better than he is.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RideofmyLife said:


> Like I said, everything's evened out a bit, and honestly I posted here in this forum knowing that it wasn't quite the right fit, but where else could I post?? lol I mean, even the dysfunctional relationships I've read about on this site seem normal in comparison to what I've gone through.


There are forums for poly and open and swingers where people discuss the good and the bad, and the relationship issues that come up. Did you not try to find one of those? Not that you can't post here, but most here will have no experience in what you are describing, whereas there are forums with people who do have that experience.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

This is exactly why sharing yourself around doesn't work. The same applies to your husband. You two have no idea what marriage is. Better to go your separate ways and think long and hard about the choices you make in future.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> It is rare when a thread shocks me. Folks, this one takes the cake.
> 
> OP you mention the word "love" many times in your thread. Please stop using that word. It is an insult to people here who truly understand what it means and the responsibility it carries.
> 
> ...



Bandit, this is the best response I have ever read on here. You can be my therapist any day, there's no beating around the bush with you.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

RoseAglow said:


> OP, I agree with jld, bibi, and several others. You are going to have to be the leader in your relationship. Your husband is mentally unstable at this time. Until he gets stable and remains so for a sustained period- I mean 9-12 months- you are the one in charge of your family's wellbeing.
> 
> First order of business is to quit beating yourself up. Yes, you just went through an extremely messed up situation. You are no more complicit in any of it than your husband. He wanted to open things up. You realized that the whole thing was a [email protected] You didn't handle it perfectly, but you handled it the best you knew how and it's done now because you had the good sense to end it.
> 
> ...



Are you serious???? No words........


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

RideofmyLife said:


> Roselyn, you are correct. We are both quite miserable... I thought we were completely healthy people before this, both in mind and body. But we've quite wrecked ourselves. They say when you open a marriage you expose the foundation. And if there's any hairline fractures there, they can become jagged cracks very quickly.


I think it's perceptive of you to catch that you were both ok before and that this experience has harmed you individually and maritally. It concerns me that your husband has not made the connection as well. 

It's rare for a couple to have a happy, healthy open marriage. Hairline fractures become jagged cracks because for the majority of humans, opening the marriage is like taking a big sledgehammer to that marital foundation. 

When the marital foundation is crumbling, everything gets affected. Our emotional and physical well-being us thrown into flux. Anxiety and depression are common in this situation.

My goal here is to offer a different perspective. I see you beating yourself up, calling yourself wayward, saying that you're trying to take responsibility and that your husband appreciates that. 

You're a grown woman and should have known better than to agree to an open marriage, absolutely. You should never have gone through with it.

But after that, there is little to apologize for. You did exactly what most women would do if their husband was asking them to sleep with other men. You developed feelings for the OM. You distanced yourself from your husband. You felt used by your husband. These are normal reactions in an abnormal situation. 

So here's my theory on your situation. It could be completely off base (but maybe not! Both you and jld mentioned the addictive qualities!)

It does sound a lot like an addiction. I visualize your story as your husband wanting you both to shoot heroin. You should know better but you agree to please your husband. He gets the drug and sets you up, but you inject yourself. And damn it if heroin doesn't feel amazing! Your husband is there encouraging you, shooting up himself, pushing to keep up a supply. You do it "together" but separately, individually. 

But bad things happen when you're caught up in heroin, or any drug. Addicts are miserable. They are highly anxious and depressed. Their entire lives collapse. And yet while they are in trap, they don't realize that the drug is the cause of their misery. 

You acted like any "normal" addict. You loved the rush at first. Then you started to hate what was happening. You didn't like who you were becoming. You felt horribly because you could see that your behavior hurt the people you love. Addicts are incredibly selfish and self-centered, because the drugs consume their lives, their thoughts. 

You and your husband both tried the common strategy of trying to control the addiction by changing the rules. You tried to make the addiction workable. Details, no details. This man, not this man. Anything that would allow the addiction to stay active, trying to minimize the harm.

You've realized that the addiction, the open marriage, is the problem. You stopped your end of it. Make your amends to your kids, whose lives have been affected. 

I caution you against making amends to your husband at this point. How can you make amends to your drug pusher? You are responsible for agreeing to the whole thing and then actually following through with it. But you owe nothing to the person who was there setting it up, pushing it, and who would still have you using if possible.

Your husband is still caught up in the addiction. He might not be using, but, unlike you, he hasn't realized that the open marriage was the problem. He is still in the addictive mindset that there is something wrong with him, and something wrong with you, that you two can't make it work. After all, others are able to have a happy open marriage, right? You two just didn't do it right. His problems would be over if he could just have his open marriage. His end goal is still to keep the marriage open, and he is in anxiety and depression hell over it.

You might be reading this and thinking "this chick is completely off her rocker, none of this fits my situation!" But if it does fit, I think it's very important for you to be crystal clear that the open marriage is the problem, because your husband will fight you on it. 



RideofmyLife said:


> RoseAglow, thank you! I will check into the Marriage Builders. My IC therapist also gave me some papers on "Acceptance and Mindfulness" approaches, and recommended a book called The Mindful Way Through Depression, because there's certainly our share of that around here.
> 
> Like I said, everything's evened out a bit, and honestly I posted here in this forum knowing that it wasn't quite the right fit, but where else could I post?? lol I mean, even the dysfunctional relationships I've read about on this site seem normal in comparison to what I've gone through. And I knew I'd get some advice that could potentially help our situation, so thank you!. I appreciate the considerate and helpful posts so far.
> 
> My husband is going to go back to counseling the first of the year. And I'll have the discussion with him about our marriage staying closed soon, as well. After Christmas, most likely. I'm going to stand firm on those boundaries.


MB is awesome, but it is also the antithesis of what your husband wants right now. The entire program is built to keep any interlopers out of a marriage. They'd be fine with sub/Dom stuff as long as both partners were in enthusiastic agreement, but there is no way for their program to work if there are more than two people in a marriage. I suspect that your husband will push back.

At the same time, it will help you both individually and as a family for you to stabilize and fix your marriage. I don't know if there is a better program anywhere for improving marriages. Your husband has a pyschiatric diagnosis, which further complicates things. For this reason, I encourage you to copy/paste your original post into an email, edit it down to the essentials, and send it over to the Harleys. Put your phone number in the email so they can call you. You're right, your story is well outside the norm, even for TAM!

TAM has a lot of hurt people posting. Sometimes people can downright mean. I notice and admire that you haven't fed into any of the negativity and instead have continued to post. I hope you continue to do so, and I hope that 2016 is a much better year for you and your family. I hope you stick around and let us know how it goes!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

RideofmyLife said:


> RoseAglow, thank you! I will check into the Marriage Builders. My IC therapist also gave me some papers on "Acceptance and Mindfulness" approaches, and recommended a book called The Mindful Way Through Depression, because there's certainly our share of that around here.
> 
> Like I said, everything's evened out a bit, and honestly I posted here in this forum knowing that it wasn't quite the right fit, but where else could I post?? lol I mean, even the dysfunctional relationships I've read about on this site seem normal in comparison to what I've gone through. And I knew I'd get some advice that could potentially help our situation, so thank you!. I appreciate the considerate and helpful posts so far.
> 
> My husband is going to go back to counseling the first of the year. And I'll have the discussion with him about our marriage staying closed soon, as well. After Christmas, most likely. I'm going to stand firm on those boundaries.


And guess what my friend, the depression is there to save you! To force you to change your wicked ways!! It's anger turned inward on oneself. Don't drug up to block it, it might save your life! Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

_


RoseAglow said:



You might be reading this and thinking "this chick is completely off her rocker, none of this fits my situation!" But if it does fit, I think it's very important for you to be crystal clear that the open marriage is the problem, because your husband will fight you on it.

Click to expand...

_


RoseAglow said:


> I'm definitely not reading this and thinking you're off your rocker! I agree that it DOES fit my situation. It's something that I've been struggling with now for too long. While Bandits post hurt, it's not worse than I've been hurting myself. But I have hope that things will improve. Sometimes I'm not sure about the quality of love for my husband anymore. I hurt thinking that he may be hanging around just because he doesn't want to hurt the kids with divorce or thinks he can't get anyone better than me. So I'm not holding out that things will for sure be okay.
> 
> I also know my attraction to him has diminished. He's sad a lot, but does everything for me. He's always thinking of me. Doing little things. But he has no confidence or interest in outside activities. I want to shake him sometimes.
> 
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I thinks it's time to load up the trailer, clean the guns, buy shyt load of ammo, clays and a punch of tannerite and the both of you go let off some steam.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

the guy said:


> I thinks it's time to load up the trailer, clean the guns, buy shyt load of ammo, clays and a punch of tannerite and the both of you go let off some steam.


LOL, sounds great.  I need more practice with my s&w Shield.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

A pic of the OM might make for a good target.....LOL

At the end of the day you guys need to reconnect and show your old man he is enough man for you and you don;t need another one,,,,,hell your old man doesn't need another one..... I mean he lost his shyt the 1st time around and now the dumb @ss wants to go through this shyt again? WTF!

I suggest if your old man ever mentions this cuckold crap again you kick him in the balls....or at the very least have him wear a rubber band around his wrist and when her starts talking about this crap you snap it as hard as you can. For what it's worth I tried the rubber band trick to quit chewing....it didn't work. ;-)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

For someone who doesn't want to hurt anyone, OM, children, husband, you certainly do seem to be hurting everyone.

I can't understand why anyone with young children would want to risk everything for some extra-marital sex.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

the guy said:


> A pic of the OM might make for a good target.....LOL
> 
> At the end of the day you guys need to reconnect and show your old man he is enough man for you and you don;t need another one,,,,,hell your old man doesn't need another one..... I mean he lost his shyt the 1st time around and now the dumb @ss wants to go through this shyt again? WTF!
> 
> I suggest if your old man ever mentions this cuckold crap again you kick him in the balls....or at the very least have him wear a rubber band around his wrist and when her starts talking about this crap you snap it as hard as you can. For what it's worth I tried the rubber band trick to quit chewing....it didn't work. ;-)


:iagree:

When the question is: "Honey, do you want sex with other people outside our marriage?"

The answer must always be: "No thanks! I'd rather not!"


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

May I suggest the next time your old man wants you to screw another guy you hand him a wig and a pair of Groucho Marx classes( you know the plastic black rim eye class frames with the big plastic nose and hairy mustache) and tell him put these on and lets get at "it"!

LOL


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So....if all works out...the next time your old man mentions another guy banging you he will be in the middle of the bedroom wearing a fake @ss hair piece, with Groucho classes on and clutching his bulls in pain as you walk away with keys to the trailer, gun cases and a bottle of good wine.....right?

LOL


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

RideofmyLife said:


> I have hope that things will improve.
> 
> Sometimes I'm not sure about the quality of love for my husband anymore. I hurt thinking that he may be hanging around just because he doesn't want to hurt the kids with divorce or thinks he can't get anyone better than me. So I'm not holding out that things will for sure be okay.
> 
> I also know my attraction to him has diminished. He's sad a lot, but does everything for me. He's always thinking of me. Doing little things. But he has no confidence or interest in outside activities. I want to shake him sometimes.


I have hope that things will improve for you, too. 

I am not surprised that your feelings are diminished for him, and it's likely that his feelings have diminished for you as well. You've both been through a lot! But, you are both still hanging in there. You are both still caring for each other. It might have taken a beating, but you both still have some love for each other.

If he agrees to keep the marriage closed and to do the work, my money is on the two of you recovering. I'm confident that you'll put in the work; your husband is the wild card.



> And yes, he'll be upset and maybe resentful when I tell him that we will never be open again. If he decides that that's a deal breaker, then we'll divorce, most likely. I won't go back down that road. Your analogy of a heroin addict is apt.


It's my hope for you that your husband follows your lead and truly agrees to keep the marriage closed. He might be resentful at first, but hopefully his resentment will resolve if the two of you can build a new, happier, safer marriage where both of you are getting your emotional needs met. 



> I understand that the marriage builders is for marriages with no outside influences. Thanks for clarifying. I'll take your suggestions and pare everything down and email them. Thank you for your supportive post.


I was pretty sure you were clear about MB; I meant that your husband will probably fight against it because the program is set up to prevent the open marriage that he wants. I'm glad that you're going to email them. There is almost always one spouse pulling the other spouse into their program (same for most marriage counsellors, I'd guess). The Harleys are great at working with the reluctant spouse and will likely have some strategies/talking points for you. 

It's possible that the MB program will be too straight laced for you, but even if so, the overall theory is simple, and effective. I hope it helps you. You have a history and more importantly, you have kids. What you have is worth the fight to improve and maintain your marriage.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Thank God I'm just a boring guy with a boring wife who only has sex with each other...

I have no idea how you fix this. All I can say is that your lifestyle was very selfish considering you have kids. And if you 2 did have a bad experience the first round due to the OM (was it really an OM after all???), WTF were either of you thinking by allowing you to go back to the root cause of the initial failure???

In the end, all this sounds like is that your H got boned in this open marriage deal. Maybe he should be allowed to have a hot lover while you get to be chaste for awhile. Even the scales. Obviously the best choice - by far - was to never engage in the first place. But otherwise, I got nothing. Balancing the "injustice" is the only thing I can think of that would give your H his confidence back. Bottom line he feels emasculated because your experience was fun and enjoyable while his was ho hum at best AND you chose your boy toy over your H in the end. 

You broke the fvcking rules of the game... Balance the scales. Only just thing you can do now IMHO.

God, what a fvcking mess...


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> I will never understand why people purposely complicate their lives.


Some people always have to skate uphill.

this has been mentioned several times -I still don't understand:
1) How did you have the time?
2) At any point, how did either of you not see the train wreak coming?


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

snerg said:


> Some people always have to skate uphill.
> 
> this has been mentioned several times -I still don't understand:
> 1) How did you have the time?
> 2) At any point, how did either of you not see the train wreak coming?


I saw OM once a week, Friday nights. Hubby was seeing his girl 3 to 4 times a week, but stopped after a month of that due to kids wondering where Daddy was. His relationship only lasted 3 months or so. 
We saw the train wreck coming, we were just selfish. And deluded, thinking we had resolved some of our issues. Thankfully, the impact on our children was minimal. They never knew we were seeing other people.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

RideofmyLife said:


> Thankfully, the impact on our children was minimal. They never knew we were seeing other people.


Are you sure?

Kids are way, way, way more attuned to what's going on than we ever give them credit for.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I thought I'd update, and I'll probably use this as a journal of sorts. 

A few nights ago we laid in bed and talked. I told him that I'm worried I'm toxic to him, that I don't want him staying in a marriage out of fear, I don't want him to become a shell of a person, etc. I also took the moment to tell him that if we were going to work through our problems effectively, we can't have an open marriage. We can't be fvcking other people. I basically put my foot down. He said, "I'm not sure how I feel about that" He then brought up custody of the kids and how when the **** was hitting the fan (this summer when he threatened suicide) that I had said I'd take full custody of the kids. He was bothered by it. I told him that, at that time, with the depression, anxiety, alcohol/drug night, suicide threat, mental hospital stay, that I was in protection mode. I was thinking that if we divorced, I'd need to protect myself and the kids and in his current mental state, I would want to protect them until he had his meds ironed out and his issues addressed. Any responsible parent would do that. He was a wild card.

He said he kind of understood. I told him that I saw a ton of improvement in him and I have! I've seen no anxiety/panic attacks. He threw out the pot, hasn't touched alcohol (and never drank any alcohol up until that night due to his fathers alcoholism), his mood is improved and the meds seem to be making a huge impact. He's happier and more engaged with the kids. At this current juncture, with all the progress he's made on his own, I told him I'd have no problem doing a fair split of custody if it came to that, but that my number one priority is the kids. If he's healthy, then we can do a 50/50 split. If he's not, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

We also had a marriage counseling session today. I told her about me accepting responsibility for much of what's happened, and how that has felt good to acknowledge. I told her about offering to do a polygraph, opening my phone to him, giving him passwords to my accounts, etc. I told her that we need to keep the marriage closed. She asked him if he agreed and he said "mostly". The last 10 minutes were the most productive though, I'd say. She had him write down how he feels when he's at his worst, and she went over them explaining that a couple of them were linked directly to me and she encouraged him to feel worthwhile, adequate, needed, desired, etc... not by me but within himself. She also encouraged us/him to look for activites we can do that don't revolve around sex, so we discussed hiking/hot springs/camping stuff. He was pretty quiet the whole time. He never says too much, just explaining that he's tired, but he's never been one for counseling anyway. I'm just glad he's going. And that he participated even a little.

She gave us a copy of Not Just Friends at the end of the session which should help. I've seen it recommended on here. The sexting with the other guys I'm just going to accept as cheating, even though it might be argued that it wasn't a PA and I wasn't emotionally involved with them. However, he feels betrayed and so I am going to accept that, and proceed as though I cheated. And really, I did. I wasn't supposed to be sexting with other guys, so why dress it up? I think what affects him more than the sexting though, was how I lied. So, full honesty is the charted course. We'll see how it goes. 

Someone suggested that I check out Losinghim's thread. I just caught up with it over this past week. It's been enlightening. I also went through Shamwow's thread and another that I can't remember off the top of my head. The infidelity threads are the ones I'm paying attention to mostly.

I haven't posted to Marriage Builders yet. When I do, I'll update here again.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi Rideofmylife, thanks for the update! I am glad things seem to be settling down. It doesn't sound like he's quite on-board, he's a little wobbly, but he is doing the right things by staying on his meds and going to counseling. Sounds much better now than when you initially posted. 

I strongly advocate for the marriage builders strategies, but I don't recommend that you post on their forums (unless you're in dire straits). Definitely read a bit there before posting. You can get most of their philosophies in the Basics Concepts and q and A columns. They have a great book, His Needs, Her Needs. If your husband is willing, they have a program described in the book that really does help to build romantic love between spouses. 

I hope he continues to move forward with you.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Sounds to me that you did this to start with to please your husband and then you fell in love with someone else. Maybe there really wasn't anything left of the marriage to begin with? What does the road look like ahead of you and what have you learned from this that you will change for your future?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I would put the blame at 60% your husband and 40% yours.

Do not let him complicate things. Tell him you didn't want an open marriage in the first place and the chips fell where most everyone would think the would. Tell him if you are not good enough for him, he can move out.

He has no clue about women. Get him the MMSLP book linked to below.

Most importantly tell him men hit back when someone hits them. Otherwise they are just someones b!tch. Tell him Bi*ches aren't husband material. Sub drop my a$$.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

*Rant*

This morning we were talking about possible vacations to the Oregon coast to visit my brother and I happened to mention my sister. He started going on about how he doesn't think much of her because she *attacked* him. I reminded him that from her perspective, he was attacking me, after all, I was kicking and screaming at him and he had me down on the bed. She saw that her sister that needed defending. He said "I never touched you, you overreacted" and that she continued attacking him after I ran out of the room. Said she was pushing him and preventing him from leaving the room. I told him she probably thought he was going to come after me. He reminded me that he never physically hurt me. I said I was traumatized that night. The kids were traumatized. She did what she felt she had to do to get him off me. 

He said he didn't think he wanted our kids around her because she drank too much and was a bad influence on me. I admit, my sister probably is an alcoholic. She admits she may have a problem, but she's never out of control or reckless or doing things around our kids that she shouldn't. (And she sees them like once every 5 years) He doesn't like that I wrapped up my phone one time in my purse while I was down there so it would muffle the audio if he was spying. He said what if the kids needed to get ahold of me? I admitted that it may not have been a good idea, but my oldest is 11 and I only left them for a couple hours stretch when we needed to go to the hospital or rehab facility. I should have been able to hear the phone ring even with it being wrapped up, but who knows? 

He asked if I was mad? I said, only if you forbid our kids from seeing their aunt (besides, my elderly father now lives with her and her husband) and he said he wouldn't forbid it, he just doesn't like the idea. Says she didn't want to hear his side of the story when he was down there briefly with us in AZ after he got out of the mental hospital. In fact, she did listen to him when he was saying he didn't want to move out of the house when I got back from AZ, so she turned to me and said, if you need space and he doesn't want to leave, then you can leave. He got pissed and basically said she was interfering in our marriage and encouraging divorce. My sister was encouraging divorce, but only because of how distraught I was. She was supporting me in finding the strength I might need to end it. That's what sisters do. If he has a problem with her, it shouldn't impact our kids relationship with her. He can make himself scarce if she comes to visit. Or not go when I fly myself and the kids to NC. 

He admitted to having thoughts of divorcing and remarrying me with some sort of prenup that would guarantee him 50 percent custody. He's really worried I'll deny him access to the kids because of the suicide/mental hospital thing. I told him, as long as you're a stable parent, that wouldn't happen. I'm almost convinced now he's staying with me just because of the custody thing. I even asked him that. He said, I still love you, but it's different. And keeps bringing up how hard it is to raise kids as a single parent and how they need us both.

He asked me why I wasn't still mad at a lot of stuff he did. I told him that I've forgiven most of it because I know it stemmed in a large part from my behavior in the beginning of the open marriage. He asmitted that he had put a gps on my car and hired a PI when I had gotten back to idaho. The PI evidently sat near me when I was out with my friend. My husband was trying to get confirmation that I had slept with someone in AZ, but since that never happened, the PI didn't get anything useful. Me mostly listening to my friends life falling apart. I reminded him that I'm willing to do a polygraph and he brought up again that they're unreliable and that it wouldn't help him.

He said he's also feeling resentful that I've put the kabosh on any fun extracurriculars with other people. I told him that if we have a prayer of getting through this and keeping our marriage together, we need to do it without other people getting in the way. The marriage stays closed. He grudgingly agreed. He's still very hurt and feels jipped. He bought a copy of "Not Just Friends" that our MC recommended and he says he'll listen to it in the car on the way to and from work. I'll read it also. We'll probably dive into His Needs, Her Needs next. 
@Chaparral, I think I may mention the MMSLP book to him, but probably just not yet. I don't want to overwhelm him. One book at a time. He did apologize again for the part he played in everything. I told him that if it makes him feel any better, the OM was a sociopath. The D/s relationship masked a bit of it, but yeah, with time he would have seriously hurt me. And my husband did pick up on some red flags that I dismissed back when we were still all in the mix. Like the OM wanting to do something but have me not tell anyone else. 

I'm expecting days like this. I get insanely prickly when certain topics come up and I'm trying my best to respond in a civil way. I'm not a shouter or yeller by any means. But I wish he could try placing himself in my shoes. I do my best to remain calm, but if he forbids me from letting the kids see my sister, that could be a deal breaker. Sorry, I know this is all over the place.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Yesterday evening I had a date night with my friend. The same friend who's conversation with me he listened to via spyware on my phone. 
He was getting anxiety about me going to see her, afraid we'd be talking **** about him. Now, this friend has her own crap she's going through
and even though she's bitter about her impending divorce, she's not toxic to the relationship. She's not saying that I should dump my husband,
she's not dragging me out to bars to get hit on by other guys, we just sit and talk about our lives. 

I told my husband that I hadn't really talked to my friend since my realization and insight into my share of the blame with everything we went
through and told him I was actually looking forward to talking to her about that and tell her how he and I are doing better. She's supportive of me and
I wouldn't lose her as a friend even if he and I work out. He knows this. She still has concerns, though. She brought up the fact that he's not liking me
talking to her, he possibly destroyed another friendship by telling them about the open marriage (he says he was in the middle of a panic attack 
when she was at our house and couldn't help it), called my other long-time friend out of the blue several months ago to start talking to her about
our issues, and has expressed concerns about my kids seeing my sister. She's worried he'll end up one of these guys that doesn't want me to 
have any friends or controlling which friends I have. I told her I doubted that was the case, but I'd keep my eyes open. 

Last night before I left he also told me he re-listened to the recordings he had made of me and my open marriage partner. I'm sure he also still
has the recordings of the convos I had with friend and sister. I'm going to tell him to delete them as it doesn't do him any good to listen to them.
It just brings back all of those ugly feelings. If we're going to move forward, we need to be focused on actions, not words. Especially not old words
that just prevent him from releasing the poison. This morning he said he'd had a hard time sleeping as he was focused on my date with my friend.
He said he wanted to record me last night. I said, thank you for not doing that, and he said, "well there was no way I was able to!!" I wish he would've
said something like, "well even if I'd been able to, I wouldn't have because it's wrong. "

Another thing that bothers me is he started doing this thing with my friend that he did with my boyfriend. "Why don't you ever have her over to 
the house?" "Are you trying to avoid being around me?" I told him it's not that we're avoiding him, it's just that we rarely come to the house. We go
out to eat, talk, then come home. Or go out to coffee... the point is to be alone just us, no kids or distractions... and when I mentioned that to my friend 
she said yes that's true but she also said that she's actually uncomfortable at our house, even if he's off doing something else because of how he invaded 
her privacy. She wouldn't want to open up about her life while in my home, knowing that he could possibly hear her or be spying somehow on our convos. 
She said she's also gotten some pretty dark looks the last couple times she's been at our house to drop off/pick up her kids. 

She doesn't want me to go through the divorce process she's had to, and she said that even if I were to stay in a loveless yet functional marriage for the
kids, she could understand me making that decision but it's got to be pretty functional. She's worried that I'll be giving up parts of myself in order to 
stay in a marriage that might hurt me in the long run. I get it, but I told her that I'm going to try. I've seen him reading the book the therapist gave him
and starting to try to understand his feelings of betrayal. It's helped him to hear me accept responsibility and to open up my accounts and phone to him.
But I know he's still trying to figure out if he thinks it's worth it to stay. Will he just be hurt too much? Can he trust that I'm not talking **** to my friend?
He doesn't want that and neither do I. I'm struggling to bring back those deep loving feelings, but it's hard and he realizes that I'm struggling a bit, I think. 

Our MC gave him some affirmations to do at home. He hasn't done them yet. He admitted they made him uncomfortable and I said that when therapy makes
you uncomfortable/challenges you, etc... then you're on the right track. He wants to change marriage counselors because his work will pay for 6 sessions
free with one of theirs, and ours charges $80, which insurance doesn't pay. I told him I'd like to continue with this counselor to see how we continue to do 
for now. I'm not going to nag him to do the homework... it's just something I'll file away if he doesn't. I'd like to see him put the work in. If he puts in the work
and we still don't seem to be getting anywhere with the therapist, then I'd consider changing.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm reading the Noble Eightfold Path today. I think it will help me clear my mind and focus on what I want and the right way to go about it. I wish I knew deep down what I wanted, though. That would probably be good to figure out soon. lol


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I'd like this moved to the private section, as well. Can a mod help me with that?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok you have some SERIOUS issues you are NOT seeing clearly about.

I don't care about the open marriage ir H's issues. Those are separate topics.

I just read this entire thread. What kept jumping out at me us how disrespectful and dismissive you are of your H and his feelings. And you don't even see it.

You say horrible things and then say (I know) as though it was a minor detail!

You chose another man over H, you lied, his thugs, were dismissive, felt violated when he validly recorded you (because you've proven yourself to be untrustworthy), seen people he sees as toxic to your marriage and dismissed his concerns, blow off his concerns about an alcoholic babysitter his SIL.

I get that he's your sub hub but you are conflating your sexual play with you own position in the marriage and the REQUIREMENTS to be a good W.

Please please look at all these dismissive attitudes and realize you continue to emasculate H! Of course he wants the marriage open - he believes the love he deserves from you is conditional based on your attitudes and actions. Sometimes people internalize and sexualize this loss and humiliation and the "cheating" in front of them allows them to reconnect (or some such bs). IDK about H but you definitely should more honestly examine your displays of distain or at least indifference to H.

H is a piece of work but he's not here


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi Ride of my Wife,

At some point I think you need to discuss -with the MC in session only- the why either could not or would not fill the emotional needs of the other. Some here see the two of you as insane. I don't but I think a foolish choices have lead you hear. I think you get it, your husband is still on a fog. Back to my question,it seems like your husband wanted his OW to use, dominate and harm him. From your recent post about your OM it seems your relationship tended the same way. Your comment about him being dropped hard was frightening and your OM reaction was a huge ref flag as to who and what he is,

We all are a mix of attributes and attitude. In every relationship there is an ebb and flow of the balance of power. Use the MC sessions to help find a healthy mix for the both of you. Perhaps if he s looking to e submissive, next time he brings up an open marriage, dominate him and make him understand you are the only women he gets to be with.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He wants to change counsellors.

Because it costs $80?

No. Because the counsellor is challenging him.

He must stick with the counsellor or it might risk everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi, 

I think you should read on @Orange_Crush Thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/315145-feelings-after-threesome-2.html#post14771937. I suspect the two of you at sow level are at the same place. You both might be able to offer each other insights others might miss. 

Stay strong, don't yield on matters that adversely effect the marriage, him, and yourself.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I thought about what TheTruthHurts said about being indifferent and disrespectful to my husbands concerns. I talked to him about this. I told him that while I don't want to cut my kids off from their aunt, we can talk about ways to minimize any impact on them from her drinking (even though there isn't any - but he wasn't there so can't verify) and he appreciated that. He asked if I would be willing to write a letter to my close friend to ask her to "call me out" if I started talking negatively about him to her. I told him that while I prefer that he trust that I keep conversations positive, I can understand if he's worried due to lack of trust. He said he just doesn't want me saying anything that would shock or embarrass him were he in the room. He doesn't want me saying anything first to my friend that should first be said to him. I told him I understood. 

So, I told him I would be willing to write a letter to her asking her to keep me in line. Maybe it will assuage his fears and anxiety when I'm out with her. Who knows. All I know is that I'd hate to lose this friendship. She's supportive of us working things out now, he just can't get past things I've said to her out of his head. And I don't want to denigrate him or tear him down!

We also talked again about our now closed relationship. He said he's still feeling resentful about feeling like he got the short end of the stick. He said now he's worried he'll cheat on me. 

I talked to him more about staying with the counselor. He agreed for now, especially because we have lots of new ideas and thoughts about what we've read in "Not Just Friends"

JohnA, We've experimented with his submissive tendencies. Nothing recently, but we've done it before. Sometimes he's in the mood for it and I try to accommodate him, I just don't feel comfy doing it all the time. I also like to be submissive but it feels weird doing it after all we've been through. I don't know, we're still pretty messed up.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Power play has interesting and I think sometimes damaging impacts on nonsexual aspects of the relationship.

I'm sure there are lots of books on aftercare and the obligations the Dom role has in the relationship. The sub often oversteps with pressure and I suspect resentment over that has to play out in the Doms thoughts and activities outside the bedroom.

I'm a normal guy that likes daily sex with my wife though we've been together 33 years. I don't get along with a lot of other guys who frankly are intellectually intimidated (I suspect). Doesn't really matter, as my main coworker said recounting a recent work conflict, "you know how that turned out, TheTruthHurts us an alpha lol". I got a kick out of that because I don't think of myself that way at all, but I mention it as a point of reference.

Personally I'd love to do some power play with my wife taking an assertive role. I think it would be tremendously sexy to see her confidently taking control. No pain, sharing, or anything like that - but role play or something - maybe a little cuckold talk. Just to see her empowered.

BUT though she's played along a very, very little, she doesn't see me that way and doesn't want to. If I truly was submissive it would alter her view of me in a very negative light outside the bedroom.

So though my experience is very limited, I wanted to hear what your thought of this are and ask you to share your view of H and his requests of you. Sounds like topping from the bottom. Do you like this pressure? Does it negatively impact your view of him? Do you think it creeps into your life outside the bedroom? Were you two always aware of these preferences or did they spring up during your relationship?

I think it does creep into other areas of ones life and I think it shows in you getting irritated with him - like its on the edges of your view of him. Maybe resentment a bit? Aftercare isn't only for subs. Is he doing his part?

I might be reading too much into this - but if I'm not then look at this seriously and set about making changes that make sense and support your loving and honoring him. I used those terms on purpose. If it actually is a dynamic you want to change - from more talk to complete abandonment of the lifestyle - I think you owe it to yourself to be honest and make the best decision for you and your marriage.

I'm glad you had that talk and I'm glad you two had a chance to share your concerns.

If you've already answered some of this I'm sorry - I'm getting old and read a lot of threads


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I reread your recent post - I missed the "now closed" aspect of your relationship and now I get why he thinks he might cheat.

Wow ok I still think my post is appropriate, but I also think the cheating comment is just more pressure and topping from the bottom.

What are your thoughts?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

When the mental health issues override the KINK/Sex drive....it will NEVER work!

I am glad that it's "closed" for now. However, it appears that he wants the KINK/SEX over the marriage but cannot handle it.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi RideofmyLife, 

Your instinct to keep the marriage closed is the only sane choice. Demand it and enforce it. As to you breaking the rules, there are no rules in the mist of chaos. So no, he does not get to play while you sit at home. 

I really do not understand your husband. He is not dealing with reality at all. He has already been though the ringer once, why go back there ? At the very least he should know that perhaps you are not capable of avoiding emotional attachment. Which by the way no matter what your OM says, his biggest kick was controlling you to extent you were willing to destroy your marriage. At the very least I can see him if he meant your husband him sneering "who's the man beta boy" 

Yet your husband wants to go back there ?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Hi RideofmyLife,
> 
> Your instinct to keep the marriage closed is the only sane choice. Demand it and enforce it. As to you breaking the rules, there are no rules in the mist of chaos. So no, he does not get to play while you sit at home.
> 
> ...


You do understand that submissive types often get off on humiliation, right? It's a lose, lose for OP IMO.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

ROML - have you asked H to dominate you? And have you specified what you mean by that. (Referring to your earlier post where you expressed a desire to be submissive sometimes.)

I don't want to pry into specifics if you've had detailed discussions about this stuff with him... but if you haven't can you talk about that?


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Power play has interesting and I think sometimes damaging impacts on nonsexual aspects of the relationship.
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of books on aftercare and the obligations the Dom role has in the relationship. The sub often oversteps with pressure and I suspect resentment over that has to play out in the Doms thoughts and activities outside the bedroom.
> 
> ...


So though my experience is very limited, I wanted to hear what your thought of this are and ask you to share your view of H and his requests of you. Sounds like topping from the bottom. Do you like this pressure? Does it negatively impact your view of him? Do you think it creeps into your life outside the bedroom? Were you two always aware of these preferences or did they spring up during your relationship?

Right now, we're not really doing anything kinky. That was mostly stuff I was doing with the OM. We may work back into it. I can't say it really alters my view of him since we don't do much of it. I did some orders and power play with him once and honestly wasn't that much a fan. It left me feeling a little on edge. A lot of what I did with OM was being being submissive and doing some humiliation stuff, which in some bizarre way felt very freeing to me. I hadn't examined it much. So, that was my only experience of topping and my husband isn't in to being humiliated, so the orders I gave hubby stayed away from that area. I don't think his wish to be submissive at times impacts my view of him negatively. Right now, we're working on other stuff and the sexual kinky stuff is WAY far down on the list. We have never truly done anything that needed aftercare. 

We will talk about it some more. I just the other day had the urge to get out the flogger, so who knows if we'll get back into it. Probably. All I know is that I would rather be topped as I enjoy being in the submissive place. We do light stuff - hair pulling, spanking, stuff like that. But haven't recently. It's all been very plain Jane recently and I know that has him worried. 

Right now, what he's working on in MC is dealing with his triggers when they come up. Just knowing I'm going to be getting together and talking to my friend triggers him back to that night that he threatened suicide, as he had listened to a call I made to her just prior. He's now worrying about what else I might have said to her. He asked if I had shared any personal stuff he'd told me in confidence about his past with his dad and I said no. He said "I'm not sure I believe you because of your crappy memory". The therapist has him doing some kind of EFMR or something with those initials. It entails tapping his face in different spots (meridians?) and making statements about his trigger. She also suggested brainwave entrainment via videos on youtube. We told her that right now, I'm getting together with my friend and then telling my husband after the fact so that he doesn't have to know I'm with her and worry and have anxiety while I'm gone. We have yet to get together. That will happen next week, and we'll see how hubby does when I tell him that I've seen her. I'd prefer to not have to keep that up for more than a few months, as right now it makes it impossible to see her on weekends and evenings and her schedule is shi77y. I have no interest in dumping negativity on her about my relationship. I'd much rather talk about work and school and kids. I'm hoping my husband can work through his insecurities. We've been doing fairly well in other regards. 

We usually sit and chat in the evening. Or watch a show. We've been making goals to eliminate debt and reward ourselves with outings with the family and date nights. He wanted to do date nights just as often as I got together with my friend. I said that was fine, as she and I don't get together often and hubby and I have been going out more. I'm trying to find that contentedness that I used to feel. That deep happiness in the gut. I have my own anxieties and fears, fears that I'm staying just because it's the easier path. I DO love him and I love our kids and I want to work through all of this in one way or the other.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Does he feel the same way about you being submissive to him?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest weekly 'state of the marriage' meetings, where you agree to speak freely and agree to not take things personally, but in the vein of hearing what you need to know about improving the marriage. If you know you'll have that weekly meeting to bring up issues, it lets you be free during the rest of the week to just relax and enjoy yourselves, which you seem to be missing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Was sex better with OM?

Does that aspect bother your H?

I empathize with him feeling cheated but the open partnership was a hell of a bad idea.

It almost seems like he was the pathetic little cuckold while you humiliated him running off with your stud.

Do you think he has these views or feelings?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

turnera said:


> I suggest weekly 'state of the marriage' meetings, where you agree to speak freely and agree to not take things personally, but in the vein of hearing what you need to know about improving the marriage. If you know you'll have that weekly meeting to bring up issues, it lets you be free during the rest of the week to just relax and enjoy yourselves, which you seem to be missing.


Tunera, that's a good idea. We can certainly start implementing that.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Was sex better with OM?
> 
> Does that aspect bother your H?
> 
> ...


My husband does worry that sex was better for me with OM. But upon reflection, it was only more exciting and different, but not better. My husband knew how to fulfill me in a way that the OM did not. 

My husband thought that he was a cuckold type guy until I told him all that that entailed and he agreed he didn't get off on the humiliation aspect. He just enjoyed watching at times. What started bothering him was the sense I was hiding and holding back information. Not being fully truthful about all the kinky stuff we were doing. He could've cared less about WHAT we were doing. He just started to feel excluded after a while because I didn't want to come home and feel like I was giving a report every night. 

And then he worried that I was choosing the OM over him. In a way, I was towards the end, I just didn't see it. I was choosing not make a decision, which was just as bad. Ugh, it was such a mess. 

He said last night that he's wondering now if I just MET some guys in AZ and maybe didn't have sex with them. I just put my hand on his knee and didn't say anything because I've told him so many different ways that I didn't sleep with anyone in AZ. I'm glad he's at least entertaining the idea of believing me. 

What do you all think of what the MC suggested for helping him with his trigger when I go see my friend? He seems interested in trying the binaural beat stuff she recommended on youtube but has yet to try it. I did one for depression and it seemed to lift my mood, so maybe there's something to it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am honestly at a loss to advise you on your relationship.

It seems that the both of you are so terribly dysfunctional that a relationship should be the last thing you two would consider until you both got you head on straight.

I would suggest he gets pretty extensive IC and you would benefit from it as well.

I can't see you making progress in your relationship until you are both a lot healthier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Can someone give me the name of a mod so that I request this be moved to the private section? Thanks........:smile2:


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I am honestly at a loss to advise you on your relationship.
> 
> It seems that the both of you are so terribly dysfunctional that a relationship should be the last thing you two would consider until you both got you head on straight.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I understand. We're doing some date nights to try to get back into the normal pattern of life a bit, and enjoy ourselves. I mean, we get along fine - so there's that. We are definitely both doing IC and MC, so I'll probably use this mostly as a journal.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So you did withhold information, and you were more excited by the OM, and you were choosing the OM. And H is triggering and panicking that you will hide the truth from him. So now you intend to hide the truth from him, see your friend that he is apprehensive about, and confirm to him after the fact that you once again hid the truth from him.

Hmmm I think I know how he might react.

I don't think you can have a trusting relationship if you don't trust each other and are 100% honest and open with each other and transparent.

The notion that you are protecting him by withholding the truth is codependent behavior and will only backfire.

Is it fair? Who knows. But to extricate yourself from this mess you two need to put the notion of "sparing each other's feelings aside" as unhealthy and destructive.

It is hard to be fully truthful all the time. Believe me I get it, but I think that is the only way you can rebuild the trust.

Regarding AZ, you could say "I understand why you think more happened, because I hid things from you in the past. I'll try my best to be completely honest with you going forward, even if it might seem hurtful. I want to regain your trust. Here's a complete timeline of what happened on AZ"

And don't spare him the details. If there were good looking guys, tell him. You saw women and men and couples... 

It's very important to share what you did, saw and felt.

Ask him to be equally honest with you.

Tell him exactly why you like or don't like his requests. Help him see clearly when you don't feel comfortable and why. Help him be open with you, but also hear any pain or emotional burden this places on you.

And both of you should get counseling.

Good luck


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*After having read that most exhaustive posting, I'm having quite a time recovering my breath; other than to say, there are seemingly, far better morals found within the noisy confines of a zoo!

The only real advice that I can offer is to immediately file for D, for what he willingly (or even unwillingly) put you through, then get yourself into long term counseling for your own well being.*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

RideofmyLife said:


> Can someone give me the name of a mod so that I request this be moved to the private section? Thanks........:smile2:


* @EleGirl , @Deejo ,
@Amplexor *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Done


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RideofmyLife said:


> Yeah, I understand. We're doing some date nights to try to get back into the normal pattern of life a bit, and enjoy ourselves. I mean, we get along fine - so there's that. We are definitely both doing IC and MC, so I'll probably use this mostly as a journal.


I sincerely hope you both become healthy and maybe start a new marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I've been very open about everything that has happened. My life is an open book as far as he is concerned. 

My friend is important to me and we don't discuss me leaving my husband or what a crappy guy he is. She's there to support me in whatever path my marriage takes. I told my husband I'd start seeing her during the day and tell him about my visits with her after the fact, so that he isn't stewing in anxiety while I'm gone with her, which he was fine with. It worked last time. When I told him about my visit and asked how he felt, he said fine and then sat and listened to me about what she and I discussed. Not in a "pick it apart" kind of way, just an interested way. He didn't get anxious or anything, which is good. We plan to continue down that path for a bit to see how he does. 

We sat down yesterday and I admitted to some stuff I've been bottling up. It was kind of a venting kind of thing. I told him that I want to see us both improve ourselves through IC so that we can work on us better in MC... and I told him that I have to decide whether I can live in a marriage with a man who doesn't trust that I'll start sexting with men again, who thinks he could possibly cheat (he said, "well, I don't think I would") who still has an urge to spy on me. He admitted to wishing he was a fly on the wall when he found out my friend had been over a few days ago... I asked him would he really have tried to record us if he had known? He said no.

I said do you still love me and he said yes, but it's different now. He said he cares. Then he said, what's really the difference between love and caring? So I explained that difference. He said he can't be vulnerable to me right now. I get it. He's still guarding his emotions. He said divorce isn't an option for him and that he's willing to stay in a subpar relationship in order not to hurt the kids. He says he's been "happy enough" lately and I admitted that we've been doing pretty good the last couple weeks. But I told him I'm not the type of person to stay around in an unhappy relationship for the next 50 years of my life.

I told him in IC, I want to work on making sure he feels heard, I want to make sure I'm completely transparent at all times and I want to be someone he can trust not to step out on him. I want his trust back, but am willing to live with 95%, due to everything going on. I want to work on figuring out why I'm more of a taker than a giver. He tried to tell me it's not true, but I told him it IS true. I grew up spoiled, getting a lot of what I wanted and I have a hard time sometimes thinking of others first. 

In IC, I think he needs to work on control issues, insecurity, this urge to spy (which is understandable for awhile after what happened) this resentment about my closing the marriage, the feelings that he might cheat or thinks I would. 

We both need a lot of work before we can be good again. We talked, cried and then had the best sex we've had in a long time. 

Thanks for the links to the mods. I'll PM them.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't be totally transparent and at the same time accuse him of spying.

Most marriages fail due to trust issues - either the one who has had trust betrayed never us able to trust again, or the unfaithful resents what it takes to repair the trust they've broken. Instead they say things like "I will be transparent" and at the same time "get over it". Those are incomparable - telling someone to "just trust" by saying "don't spy" and "get over it" means YOU really don't have the character to do the hard work to fix what you've broken.

You admit you've been selfish and spoiled. Believe yourself - this double message is just you acting spoiled and saying I will only work a little hard for an unspecified but probably short period.

Think about this and bring it up in your IC sessions. If your counselor says you shouldn't have to wait until YOU have rebuilt the trust then get a new counselor.

Good luck - I am concerned you won't make the effort.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Good work.

How would you say your husband is satisfied with you sexually?

Has he expressed dissatisfaction?

How well do you believe you please him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your H needs to reclassify your history and open lifestyle in a very negative light.

He seems to care about the wellbeing of your children.

He needs to understand what an enemy that lifestyle is to them and how much both your actions have threatened harm to them and their futures.

Might cure him of that desire in at least one category.

He probably feels you cheated on him and that is dealt with much differently than opening a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm at a loss too. I honestly do not know how to respond to threads like these. I am way out of my league. This is New York Yankees level sh!t and I'm a Toledo Mudhen.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

"Instead they say things like "I will be transparent" and at the same time "get over it". Those are incomparable - telling someone to "just trust" by saying "don't spy" and "get over it" means YOU really don't have the character to do the hard work to fix what you've broken."

Okay, I get what you're saying. I do want to be transparent, but can't accuse him of spying when he does some checking. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want him to feel free to check my phone, computer, whatever, but not do it sneakily behind my back. Just be open and say, Wife, I'm feeling like I need to look at your phone. And I would happily hand it over. Does that make sense? You know, I don't want him feeling like he wants to plant VARs around the house. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd love for him to get to a place of comfort where he doesn't feel like he is tempted. And I haven't accused him of spying, I've just restated what he's said to me. That he still has the urge to. 
And I'll bring up what you've suggested in IC...

We've screwed things up so badly I have a hard time figuring out where we went wrong and how to even begin fixing things. But the counseling is good, for a start. I need to go more often... I've only been doing once a week, but I'm starting to question my judgment. My friend even told me I was thinking in an unhealthy way.:frown2:


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

RideofmyLife said:


> "Instead they say things like "I will be transparent" and at the same time "get over it". Those are incomparable - telling someone to "just trust" by saying "don't spy" and "get over it" means YOU really don't have the character to do the hard work to fix what you've broken."
> 
> Okay, I get what you're saying. I do want to be transparent, but can't accuse him of spying when he does some checking. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want him to feel free to check my phone, computer, whatever, but not do it sneakily behind my back. Just be open and say, Wife, I'm feeling like I need to look at your phone. And I would happily hand it over. Does that make sense? You know, I don't want him feeling like he wants to plant VARs around the house. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd love for him to get to a place of comfort where he doesn't feel like he is tempted. And I haven't accused him of spying, I've just restated what he's said to me. That he still has the urge to.
> And I'll bring up what you've suggested in IC...
> ...



Think about what you're asking though. "Trust me to have been trust worthy".

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Instead he should feel free to do random looks without your knowledge until HE decides he doesn't have to do this any more.

This isn't a rational thought in his part. It is an emotional trigger. It is panic. It is him saying "oh god did I make a mistake to open my heart???" and if he can reassure himself that it was a good decision then you have started to rebuild the trust

You have to completely let it go and not judge it. All the men I know HATE to think emotionally - most of us aren't built that way. So when we find ourselves thinking emotionally we think we're going crazy. Believe that and let him heal on his own timeline.

Based on his lifestyle choices I think he might have self esteem issues to start with.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

Well, my husband knows about this thread. He said I'd been spending a lot of time on TAM and had I posted anything about our situation. I lied. I shouldn't have, but I did. I wanted a private place where I could get some objective thoughts and a place to vent and put my progress on how we're doing and I wanted to keep it private. So, I lied. He bluffed (in his silent stoic way) and I caved and confessed. I feel awful, and I've told him of course he can read it. I told him that I tried to stay balanced in what I wrote, but I know he won't like some of it. I can only hope that he'll see that throughout the thread I've not wavered from wanting to work things out with him, and that's the important take away. 

But I had said I'd be 100% honest, and I lied.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

The silver lining? It's all in the open now.

That's the only way to move forward anyway...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I just don't know how marriages survive weird sh!t like this. 

OP have you and your husband ever talked about divorcing and just living together in an open relationship? You guys have sort of stomped all over the institute of marriage don't you think? Do you guys think you deserve to still be called a married couple? 

I'm not trying to be judgmental but........damn!


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi Ride, 

Sometimes when a person triggers all you can do is be still and hold or touch them and reassure them you are there for them till the storm passes. It is really all that is sometimes needed ad the measure of your commitment is your patience doing so. 

I admire your commintment to heal this marriage and keep it closed. Keep at IC, I just cannot fanthom some of the things I've read about S/M lifestyle.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

It's been a bit since an update. 

He read the thread and basically said, why did you lie about this? It wasn't even such a huge issue for him. He said there were a couple things he might have changed, but didn't feel like doing it. It backslid us on the trust stuff, but in the past month and a half or so, we've been doing pretty well. Still going to MC, although we're not keeping up with IC like we should. 

Every weekend we've been doing stuff. Trying to squeeze in date nights. I started geocaching with my kids. Starting to do some hikes to get in shape for hunting season. I've been feeling good working outside the home and I love my job. I'm hoping to start school in the fall now that we have the money for it. He's feeling better about me seeing my friend and I've got the green light now to plan to see her and just put it on the calendar, instead of telling him after the fact. 

You guys will bash me, but the other night he asked if I'd ever want to do a threesome. We had talked about agreeing about keeping the marriage closed, so I was a bit surprised to hear him bring it up. I rolled like a dog and showed my belly and told him I'd do ONE threesome with a woman the way he wants. He'll always harbor resentment for not getting what he wanted out of the open relationship, so I figure this should end it. It's not like I won't enjoy it. I'm not bi, but willing to do it for him. And then it'll be done. I told him I wouldn't help him search for candidates and we had a frank conversation about how being with other people isn't good for me as I'm like an addict and extracurricular sex is like the drug. I may not have used that exact analogy, but it was close. I get way too excited chatting with others and told him he's got to reel them in himself. 

I'm not as strong as I thought I was. Part of me feels guilty he didn't get what he wanted and so I caved because I don't want to end up in a marriage with a resentful, bitter man. I know I shouldn't have given in, but it is what it is, I guess. Maybe we need to smack ourselves in the face and lose a few more teeth before we learn?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RideofmyLife said:


> It's been a bit since an update.
> 
> He read the thread and basically said, why did you lie about this? It wasn't even such a huge issue for him. He said there were a couple things he might have changed, but didn't feel like doing it. It backslid us on the trust stuff, but in the past month and a half or so, we've been doing pretty well. Still going to MC, although we're not keeping up with IC like we should.
> 
> ...


Well, I think it is a bad idea but keep honest with your counselors. They need to know what they are dealing with.

Best wishes to your health. Please heal for your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I agree with. @ConanHub. Your husband is a fool. AffairCare comnentted on a different thread that modified fits here. You can't go back to the old marriage. That marriage is what put you are today. What is your husband problem with his sexuality? You should inform him you will not be brow beaten into this. 

I cannot help put notice the timing of this request. You are about to start school something you want. Is he using this to leavege you? 

Your husband reminds me of a guy I worked in the eighties. It was an all male shop except forbthe receptionist and a woman in book keeping. Most of the guys where single and under thirty. One guy was mid forties. This guy hit on these two girls non stop. Never shut up about his sex life and was always trying to show pictures. How bad was he ? I went into the bathroom the walls where covered with graffity about what an asshol$ he was.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I realize this is an older thread and in sorry I don't recall the details.

However - based on this post alone you have a sound point. A marriage us a long term commitment - a partnership - and if there is a psychological imbalance then you both suffer. Either right the imbalance through discussion, acceptance or discovery... Or literally right it as you suggest.

BTW I am 100% against outside involvement in a marriage but it sounds like those horses are out of the barn so I can't offer much there.

I applaud you for understanding your failings and weaknesses that coukd cause you to torpedo your own marriage. That's the blunt reaction to what you wrote. You'll have a lifelong challenge to keep your demons at bay and that's all on you.

Sounds like H has a set of demons he has to address.

Good luck. If you do this I really hope you discuss expectations in DETAIL first and agree to all expectations. Communication will be key. I really, really hope one doesn't end up feeling slighted otherwise you're in worse shape after than right now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think I would now set up some boundaries and consequences, since you are talking openly about the relationship. You're caving on this, and let him know that, how you feel about it. Then tell him that from now on, you are going to live your life according to YOUR set of beliefs and needs, and if he crosses those boundaries that you need to erect to protect yourself, there will be consequences. He's free to do what he needs, but he will find that if what he 'needs' hurts you, you will then take action. So be prepared.

That way, if he continues to do hurtful things, he's going to see what it's like to not have you around, to have you ignore him, to see you take a trip without him...whatever the consequences are that fit the situation. And he will have been warned. That's how people learn and, hopefully, grow.

And if he continues to push at your boundaries and hurt you, then you have good reason to leave.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you considered taking a good, hard, and probably painful, look at the marriage? It's fairly clear that you two keep trying to patch gaping holes with other people.

Your husband clearly has some serious mental health issues. Allowing him to self medicate in the form of yet another bout of adultery isn't going to fix those issues and the resulting bullshyte and drama will likely make the situation worse.

You don't want to be married to a resentful, angry, bitter man? Fair enough. Sounds like, by giving in to another open marriage request, you'll eventually become resentful, angry, and bitter.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

MJJEAN, the thought has crossed my mind that I could become resentful and bitter myself, but I'm hoping a one and done will address the issue and be done with it. I told him I'm not going to get involved finding the person. He and I discussed that it would happen naturally/organically/spontaneously with whoever ONE time. I think it's more about keeping the hope alive for him, and I'm willing to offer this in order to give him that hope.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RideofmyLife said:


> MJJEAN, the thought has crossed my mind that I could become resentful and bitter myself, but I'm hoping a one and done will address the issue and be done with it. I told him I'm not going to get involved finding the person. He and I discussed that it would happen naturally/organically/spontaneously with whoever ONE time. I think it's more about keeping the hope alive for him, and I'm willing to offer this in order to give him that hope.


I'm glad I cam back, I might have missed your reply. If you quote, it notifies the person quoted. If you put @ before a screen name, it will notify the person they have been mentioned. :smile2:

This is problematic for a few reasons. 

1) Think of it like potato chips. You have one, you want more. They're tasty, even though you know they're devoid of nutritional content and are high in salt and fat.

You've both had other people during the marriage and suffered for it, yet he's still asking and you're still willing to entertain the idea. 

I can almost guarantee that if you have that 3-way, he's going to want more and you're going to start really wanting to be with another man again.

2) By keeping the hope alive, you're actually doing more harm than good. He's mentally not stable. You're giving him something to obsess over, look for, etc. Something unlikely to occur as naturally as agreed to. Something he will become increasingly frustrated over not getting. 

3) You're being dishonest and damaging trust by allowing him to think you're still interested in some form of open marriage when you aren't.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

RideofmyLife said:


> Fair warning - this post is long.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Where's the bit where you at least try to see what motivates or why you husband wants to do OM, or why he tries to discuss things openly with you and proxy through you (ie hear exactly what was going on).

The point of a OM is to openly share things with and through your partner, not to start other monogamous relationships. (and very bad choice to hookup back with the same guy you knew you'd fallen too far already for).


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ride, I don't know of you are still following this thread, but in case you still check in from time to time, I have some friendly advice for you.

One, don't lie to your husband. Ever. Let him know what you are feeling and doing, even if you think it will hurt him. When he catches you lying about small things, it would make sense for him to suspect you of lying about large things.

Two, make a decision about whether or not you will have an open or closed marriage and stick to it, regardless of how you feel at the time. 

Married couples who swing or have open relationships CAN make it work, but it requires a level of honesty and acceptance that most people can't even fathom. It requires complete honesty and complete acceptance. But those two things are good for any marriage, regardless of whether it's open or not. 

If you can completely accept your partner and be completely honest with them, then you will HAVE to acknowledge your own feelings. You WILL have to adress them. And your partner will know about it. Your husband does not sound like he is at all ready for the emotional craziness of an open marriage.

You don't either. I say that because you seem to feel the need to protect your husband from pain. His soul never was and never will be in your hands. In trying to protect him, you validated his suspicions that he could not trust you. Stop that. 

Last bit of advice.... look up Anthony De Mello on youtube. Listen to him. He explained it better than i can. You are not broken. Neither is your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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