# Unwanted Groping



## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife doesn’t like it if, as she says, I go for the goodies immediately.

One way to teach him this is to grab his **** when he’s not expecting it out of the blue. It will be startling for him and when you explain this is how you feel when he suddenly grabs your <fill in the blank> maybe that will help him connect the dots.

As for groping in general, I love it. So yeah I want to do it, but not if my wife is like, “Ew…”


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


We are in our 50s too and married 32 years. I get pretty "handsy" with my wife when we are alone. It isn't uncommon for me to cup her breast and kiss her when I say hello, alone of course. My wife does this too. It isn't uncommon for her to walk up to me, gently squeeze my junk and give me a kiss. I do know the limits and boundaries though. I can read pretty well when it isn't a good idea. Also, I certainly wouldn't be jumping to divorce if she told me to stop.

There must be more to your story. I can't believe you simply tell your husband not to grope you and he threatens divorce. How do you tell him to stop? What other issues are you having? How good is your sex life and how often are you and your husband intimate? Any kids at home with you?


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

So let me get this straight @Melinda 1967 this is only your husband of 5 years doing this and you don’t like it correct? Does he do it only at home or at in public as well? I would personally from a man’s perspective who is on his mid to late 50’s and been married to my 55 wold wide for over 34 years and I still grab or slap sometimes in the privacy of our home. I would be worried if he did not do it no longer. I personally mean it out of love and let her know she still does it for me.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. *I don't like it only because sex is on the brain.* I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


It doesn't matter if it's normal for other people, what matters is YOUR marriage and you and your husband. Are you telling me he just started this behavior after you got married?

And could you explain what you mean with what I bolded? WHY don't you like it...because sex is always on his mind? Or something else?


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## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

All good advice and experiences. Well he does this every time he hugs me. He didn't do it when we were first married. Even within a couple of years. It started more recently. I asked him why he wants to go down my pants or grabs my boobs. He says it is what man does and that my body is his because we are married. I will admit I am going through menopause and I am also on depression meds so that doesn't help my libido. But having sex a couple a times a week is good enough for me, even though I have lost interest. I miss my younger years. He does it only in private but the moment he starts fondling me he gets turned on which is why I said sex on the brain. Maybe he doesn't want to have sex but he has a funny way of showing affection. I am all for kissing and hugging, but why go down my pants? He is threatening divorce and will ignore me for a while now as he usually does. I have asked for counseling but he says he isn't wrong, he never is...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> All good advice and experiences. Well he does this every time he hugs me. He didn't do it when we were first married. Even within a couple of years. It started more recently. I asked him why he wants to go down my pants or grabs my boobs. He says it is what man does and that my body is his because we are married. I will admit I am going through menopause and I am also on depression meds so that doesn't help my libido. But having sex a couple a times a week is good enough for me, even though I have lost interest. I miss my younger years. He does it only in private but the moment he starts fondling me he gets turned on which is why I said sex on the brain. Maybe he doesn't want to have sex but he has a funny way of showing affection. I am all for kissing and hugging, but why go down my pants? He is threatening divorce and will ignore me for a while now as he usually does. I have asked for counseling but he says he isn't wrong, he never is...


Were you having more sex when you first got married...and were you more into it? And is HE happy with 2 times a week now?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I (50) grope my wife's (51) private parts quite often, yet she is fine with it and it has ever been thus through more than 25 years of being together.

However it is a significant concern that your husband feels that he owns your body as his property, and that he doesn't respect that you don't like him doing this. Given the fact that your husband is trying to manipulate you and is also threatening divorce over this, I encourage you to give him what he wants and divorce him as soon as you possibly can.


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## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Were you having more sex when you first got married...and were you more into it? And is HE happy with 2 times a week now?


Being newly married of course it was exciting. But it didn't help going through menopause. He is happy with 3 times a week, I prefer once a week so 2 times a week is a good compromise. There is more to the story though. I would like a little more romance and less groping.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> Being newly married of course it was exciting. But it didn't help going through menopause. He is happy with 3 times a week, I prefer once a week so 2 times a week is a good compromise. There is more to the story though. I would like a little more romance and less groping.


That's not what I asked though...I asked if HE was happy with 2 times a week.

And I wonder if you would be happy if he were completely uninterested in you sexually and just wanted a roommate? I am not being snarky, I'm really asking.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I think your husband's behavior is pretty normal, most guys think about sex regularly, more often than women.

My husband grabs my butt and boobs when he wants to. I don't mind it unless he gets carried away and slaps me hard! I actually love it when he kisses me and grabs my butt. 

I don't think it's abnormal to get turned on by touching each other. 

I know menopause sucks but how are you dealing with the changes? Are you taking any hormones? Is your husband aware of all the changes you are going through? 

To tell you the truth, both of you are going through the change. I'm guessing menopause is hard for men and women. Try to communicate your issues with touching, but don't ignore his needs for sex and physical touch. You both have been married a few years and are already having problems. You should be in your honeymoon stage!


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## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> That's not what I asked though...I asked if HE was happy with 2 times a week.
> 
> And I wonder if you would be happy if he were completely uninterested in you sexually and just wanted a roommate? I am not being snarky, I'm really asking.


I think he would be happy with every day if he could. But he did tell me 3 times would make him happy. Regardless, I am not happy in the marriage if truth be told. He is a perfectionist and does absolutely no wrong in his eyes. I suggested marriage counseling because I know it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Third marriage here. It is funny you should mention a roommate because I have felt like that for some time now. A roommate with benefits. More to the story and maybe that is why I have lost interest. But he always talks divorce when he doesn't like what I say or do. He will ignore me. Last time he ignored me was for 5 days and that is because I did not go shopping with him one day. He throws the word around so lightly that I feel so unstable and insecure.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I think he would be happy with every day if he could. But he did tell me 3 times would make him happy. Regardless, I am not happy in the marriage if truth be told. He is a perfectionist and does absolutely no wrong in his eyes. I suggested marriage counseling because I know it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Third marriage here. It is funny you should mention a roommate because I have felt like that for some time now. A roommate with benefits. More to the story and maybe that is why I have lost interest. But he always talks divorce when he doesn't like what I say or do. He will ignore me. Last time he ignored me was for 5 days and that is because I did not go shopping with him one day. He throws the word around so lightly that I feel so unstable and insecure.


This doesn't sound like a healthy marriage. The groping and you not liking it are symptoms, not the root of the problem. 

You both need a serious discussion about what you both want out of this marriage because it doesn't seem to be working the way it is for either of you. Then you have to decide if it is worth trying to repair and are both of you willing to do what it takes to make it work for both of you. If your husband isn't willing to work with you then you may need to make the ugly decision to end the marriage.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Melinda 1967 said:


> But he always talks divorce when he doesn't like what I say or do. He will ignore me. Last time he ignored me was for 5 days and that is because I did not go shopping with him one day.


My suggestion to you? Take him up on his offer. The third time ISN'T the charm. 

He doesn't want counseling.

He pouts when he doesn't get his way.

He thinks he's always right.

He regularly threatens divorce.

Does that pretty much cover it? Look, maybe you aren't marriage material. Maybe you just pick the wrong guys. But, as you said, it takes TWO. Me? I'd dump this man like radioactive waste. Life is too damn short to spend it in unfulfilling relationships that suck the life out of you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

You have bigger problems than groping. I hope you can grab on to some of the solutions suggested here and squeeze some benefit from them.


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## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This doesn't sound like a healthy marriage. The groping and you not liking it are symptoms, not the root of the problem.
> 
> You both need a serious discussion about what you both want out of this marriage because it doesn't seem to be working the way it is for either of you. Then you have to decide if it is worth trying to repair and are both of you willing to do what it takes to make it work for both of you. If your husband isn't willing to work with you then you may need to make the ugly decision to end the marriage.


Believe me, I have wanted to and almost have, but then he comes around and says to just forget it and pretend nothing happened and to not do it again. You see, I am blamed for everything that is wrong in this marriage. All I ever wanted was an apology.  But he can't even do that. He always threatens to find someone else and that there are so many women out there that want him. I don't ever say that...ever. It isn't how I feel nor do I want to say such hurtful things. I know that this topic started with unwanted groping but in the end of it all, I am just ready, for the end of it. I am scared because this is my 3rd failed marriage. I have been told that it isn't that I don't do it right, it's just that I pick wrong for some reason. I am okay on my own. I was a single parent for 11 years when my baby was 5. Now she is 21 but sees the pain I am in.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

what you call "groping", is his way of showing his love, his interest in you, that he still thinks you are sexy, and that he is horny for you.

if you continually turn his advances down....he will give up eventually, and possibly find someone else who DOES like it.

do you really want to roll those dice?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> what you call "groping", is his way of showing his love, his interest in you, that he still thinks you are sexy, and that he is horny for you.
> 
> if you continually turn his advances down....he will give up eventually, and possibly find someone else who DOES like it.
> 
> do you really want to roll those dice?


@Talker67 does have a point. If there is a bright side, he is obviously physically attracted to you. The problem is I think he has done things that make him unattractive to you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I am scared because this is my 3rd failed marriage.


So what? Are you going to stay with him because you're scared that you'll be branded by society as a failure? What exactly are you scared of? Hell, I worked with a gal who had three failed marriages. She eventually met a wonderful man. They lived together until he died earlier this year. They loved each other and were completely devoted. So forget this third marriage crap. Get out and live your life the way you want to, not the way society supposedly dictates.



Melinda 1967 said:


> I have been told that it isn't that I don't do it right, it's just that I pick wrong for some reason. I am okay on my own.


So get into some serious counseling to figure out why you pick men who aren't right for you. Hey, I married TWO alcoholics. And I was determined to figure out why I did that. Both of them are now dead due to their drinking. Me? I'm doing just fine and I'm very happy living the single life.


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## Melinda 1967 (Oct 12, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Talker67 does have a point. If there is a bright side, he is obviously physically attracted to you. The problem is I think he has done things that make him unattractive to you.


The more I think about it, you are right. He has treated me more like a roommate at times so I feel like that is all I really am to him. I feel like I lost myself when I married him. Maybe it's because I was divorced for some time before I met him and lived on my own. Funny story though, I am his 3rd wife as well. First wife gave him 5 children and then he left her because she didn't understand him. Then he married another and she left after 6 months...So...I know what I need to do but I need to be strong enough to do it. If he doesn't want counseling, maybe I should go it alone.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> Believe me, I have wanted to and almost have, but then he comes around and says to just forget it and pretend nothing happened and to not do it again. You see, I am blamed for everything that is wrong in this marriage. All I ever wanted was an apology. But he can't even do that. He always threatens to find someone else and that there are so many women out there that want him. I don't ever say that...ever. It isn't how I feel nor do I want to say such hurtful things. I know that this topic started with unwanted groping but in the end of it all, I am just ready, for the end of it. I am scared because this is my 3rd failed marriage. I have been told that it isn't that I don't do it right, it's just that I pick wrong for some reason. I am okay on my own. I was a single parent for 11 years when my baby was 5. Now she is 21 but sees the pain I am in.


You've pretty much described a situation that has no resolution for you, so I am going to agree with @Personal and @Prodigal ...I believe you should just cut your losses and move on. Then you can each find other people who are better matched to what you each really want.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Constantly threatening divorce and that he will find someone else is horrible. How can you possibly feel happy and secure with threat's hanging over you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> what you call "groping", is his way of showing his love, his interest in you, that he still thinks you are sexy, and that he is horny for you.


Yes, but it's also matter of respect. The OP has said several times she doesn't like it and he keeps doing it. Not a good thing.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, but it's also matter of respect. The OP has said several times she doesn't like it and* he keeps doing it.* Not a good thing.


why does she not like it? 
Is she OCD, and hates being touched?

does she have a negative image of her own sexiness, and can not possibly be sexy to her husband, so he is just an annoyance? (in which case he is just trying to convince her of her sexiness to HIM).

Does she hate sex? Or hate sex with HIM? in which case, she knows him touching her leads to sex, which she is avoiding. 

i could go on, but you see...he is trying to communicate to her, and she is **** blocking him at every turn. He can not figure out what she is trying to tell him (other than "DON'T TOUCH ME, EVER!"

Is she mad at him, and wants to continually punish him?

She at least needs to communicate, in big girl words, WHY she thinks him touching her is "groping", and why she will not let him do it.

I suspect she read some feminist nonsense somewhere, and is applying it to her previously OK marriage, and does not realize she has gotten some horribly bad advise.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> why does she not like it?
> Is she OCD, and hates being touched?
> 
> does she have a negative image of her own sexiness, and can not possibly be sexy to her husband, so he is just an annoyance? (in which case he is just trying to convince her of her sexiness to HIM).
> ...



that is not how I read this at all. He abuses her emotionally with threats of divorce, threats of other women wanting him, unwilling to communicate on issues, no affection and just goes for the sex. If that is the case, he should do her a favour, leave her and go get a prostitute, he obviously does not want to put in any effort unless its sex. What ********! OP divorce him. You will only continue to be miserable in this marriage.
Where is the love, affection, emotion, respect and consideration. There is none. What woman would want to have sex with that, unless it was just a ****, no strings attached.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

aine said:


> that is not how I read this at all. He abuses her emotionally with threats of divorce, threats of other women wanting him, unwilling to communicate on issues, no affection and just goes for the sex. If that is the case, he should do her a favour, leave her and go get a prostitute, he obviously does not want to put in any effort unless its sex. What ******! OP divorce him. You will only continue to be miserable in this marriage.
> Where is the love, affection, emotion, respect and consideration. There is none. What woman would want to have sex with that, unless it was just a ****, no strings attached.


hard to tell. we would need a lot more info to figure out if one or the other was at fault. 
i am just pointing out that it is not so obvious WHO is at fault here. He might just be lashing out after having been rejected so many times.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> why does she not like it?


I don't know. I don't like when people look at my feet... why? I don't know. They are nice feet, BTW...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, but it's also matter of respect. The OP has said several times she doesn't like it and he keeps doing it. Not a good thing.


It's not a matter of respect. An popular but errant catch phrase if broadstroke used.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's not a matter of respect. An popular but errant catch phrase if broadstroke used.


Its much more than respect, he keeps saying he wants to divorce, other woman would want him, he wants to rug sweep issues, have no communication, etc., not the foundation for a healthy marriage at all. SEX and rejection is all you guys see. What about the emotional damage he is doing to her, it is abusive. No-one wants to be groped by someone who effectively abuses them. See the bigger picture.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Melinda 1967 said:


> *I think he would be happy with every day if he could. But he did tell me 3 times would make him happy. Regardless, I am not happy in the marriage if truth be told. He is a perfectionist and does absolutely no wrong in his eyes.* I suggested marriage counseling because I know it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Third marriage here. It is funny you should mention a roommate because I have felt like that for some time now. A roommate with benefits. More to the story and maybe that is why I have lost interest. But he always talks divorce when he doesn't like what I say or do. He will ignore me. Last time he ignored me was for 5 days and that is because I did not go shopping with him one day. He throws the word around so lightly that I feel so unstable and insecure.


This post strengthens your stance on all this.

Him being married three times is very revealing and typical.
He is unwilling to change, he just dumps those he cannot mold to his ways.

He sounds very self-centered and selfish.

I am a groper, by the way.


_Are Dee-_


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

It's obvious that there's more to the story than groping and/or controlling behavior by the OP's husband. But whatever that might be it seems that she got into a relationship with a man that is not suitable for her, and now that she's realizing that, is afraid to end this relationship over what perceptions herself and others might form of her due to a third failed relationship, That's silly and weak.

OP is your life, you cannot live it to please others, whether you're right or wrong on your responses to your husband's demands the bottom line is that obviously you're not with the right person (for the third time, supposedly), which at your age you need to find out why are you picking men that are not right for you. Something withing you is attracting the wrong guys. It's been only five years of marriage with him, and the fact that him groping you is such an issue to you (most likely you feel repulsed by him) should be enough for you to end this relationship. 

Just get it over with, the longer you wait the more time of your life you're wasting away.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> It doesn't matter if it's normal for other people, what matters is YOUR marriage and you and your husband. Are you telling me he just started this behavior after you got married?
> 
> And could you explain what you mean with what I bolded? WHY don't you like it...because sex is always on his mind? Or something else?


When I read that line I empathized with her. For me, the only time I'm touched is for sex or when sex is on the brain. I'm never hugged except for a hi, bye kind of deal and when I am touched it's copious groping and I hate it too for that vary reason. 

It's not that I don't like a slap on the ass, or a breast grab, ect. It's when that's the only physical 'affection' I receive. It get's old.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> When I read that line I empathized with her. For me, the only time I'm touched is for sex or when sex is on the brain. I'm never hugged except for a hi, bye kind of deal and when I am touched it's copious groping and I hate it too for that vary reason.
> 
> It's not that I don't like a slap on the ass, or a breast grab, ect. It's when that's the only physical 'affection' I receive. It get's old.


I agree with you...and then if you have needs that aren't being met with your partner, it's your responsibility to communicate them and to do what's needed to make sure they ARE met. If your partner resists or doesn't care about what you need, then you have to face that and find a way to resolve it, instead of remaining miserable.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree with you...and then if you have needs that aren't being met with your partner, it's your responsibility to communicate them and to do what's needed to make sure they ARE met. If your partner resists or doesn't care about what you need, then you have to face that and find a way to resolve it, instead of remaining miserable.


Everything you said is true. I'm in the thick of it right now and struggling to leave.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> Regardless, I am not happy in the marriage if truth be told. He is a perfectionist and does absolutely no wrong in his eyes. I suggested marriage counseling because I know it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Third marriage here. It is funny you should mention a roommate because I have felt like that for some time now. A roommate with benefits. More to the story and maybe that is why I have lost interest.


It's not about the groping. It's about you having one foot out of this marriage. The brain is the biggest sex organ & yours wants nothing to do with your husband. So it's a turn off when he touches you. 

I hate to tell you this but you are on your way to a 3rd divorce. Your husband wants love affection & sex. Men need sex to feel loved. Something else is wrong here .. . .you said there is more to the story & you have lost interest. So if you don't want to be in this marriage any more, just get out. When sex is a chore you're doomed.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Everything you said is true. I'm in the thick of it right now and struggling to leave.


I know!!! I read your other posts, and I hope you find the strength to GO...!!!


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I know!!! I read your other posts, and I hope you find the strength to GO...!!!


Thank you. I know it's a no brainer, it just isn't as easy as saying that you know.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Thank you. I know it's a no brainer, it just isn't as easy as saying that you know.


I know that very well.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's not a matter of respect. An popular but errant catch phrase if broadstroke used.


What @Lila says... ^^^^


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

My wife and I are both 59. She has a very nice caboose, and I always have to pat it when I hug her each morning. She has no complaints. Hell, it just depends on the couple. Nothing wrong with being playful. Keep dating is my motto.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

While not okay he is demonstrating he still finds you sexually and passionately desirable my guess is that when you were dating he did it then and you found it enjoyable.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> This post strengthens your stance on all this.
> 
> Him being married three times is very revealing and typical.
> He is unwilling to change, he just dumps those he cannot mold to his ways.
> ...


She has also been married three times. She was referring to how many times a week he told her he needed sex to be satisfied.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> _She has also been married three times._ She was referring to how many times a week he told her he needed sex to be satisfied.


Missed that.

I now change my tact...

Both are mismatched, and no longer compatible, _if ever._

People change, some get more amorous with age, _most_ do not.
Some ladies seem to be most amorous in their 40's

...........................................................................

Our OP is flustered, and _she is running out of steam._

The anti-anxiety/depression medication is not helping here. 
This is a common side effect of these medications, they lower one's libido.

Depression is real, it can be serious, and can be deadly to a marriage when the other partner has needs that are frustrated by the behaviors associated with depression.


Very few can live with a person who is always flat or down, and having bouts of niggling anxiety.

................................................................................................

Her husband is frustrated, with that ever-building,_ little head of steam._
He remains self-centered and lacks sufficient empathy for others, without a doubt.
He seems impossible to live with.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Both would be better off, being single (again) and off anyone's _long term_, skin-to-skin radar.
..........................................................................

The hopefully, STBXH, should only date, do casual hookups, and not form any close bonds with woman.

.........................................................................

The OP should tend to her child, (job?), any close lady friends and family, and her hobbies.

She might, in the future find an, asexual man, but that is NOT what she wants.
She wants a romantic man, who is easy-going and not very sexually active.

Howsoever, can she (long term) hold up her _warm-end_ in that next-new relationship?


_Lilith-_


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> My wife and I are both 59. She has a very nice caboose, and I always have to pat it when I hug her each morning. She has no complaints. Hell, it just depends on the couple. Nothing wrong with being playful. Keep dating is my motto.


You're spot on.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> What @Lila says... ^^^^


Remind me what @Lila says, I may have her blocked due to well, nevermind.

A side note, reference only if that helps you categorize this; every day at least twice a day or more, I kiss, grab some butt, and call it groping if you want, - Mrs. Ragnar daily.
At no time do I ever think I want to grab you because I disrespect you....

It's always hey Sweetie, kiss me, cause I love you and you still do it for me, hubba hubba. Disrespect is the farthest from our minds. 
Appreciation that we're able to enjoy each other and express affection is the reason.

Hell, I'm usually naked around the house in the morning after shower and we're both getting ready for our day and she regularly grabs me when we have a smooch. Nothing but love. Most guys are the same way.

Sadly, we here at TAM always hear the problems from posters that he or she never touches me, etc.
I'll hold on to the fact that intimate touching throughout the day is a great thing, a great way to keep showing affection.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Remind me what @Lila says, I may have her blocked due to well, nevermind.


She just said it wasn't just the groping, but that he was abusive threatening divorce all the time, etc... very destabilising in a relationship.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> She just said it wasn't just the groping, but that he was abusive threatening divorce all the time, etc... very destabilising in a relationship.


Well, without more detail, it's a chicken-and-egg type of thing. After all, she married him...so one or both have changed either their behavior towards eachother, or their expectations.

Either way, I don't see the point in staying married and attempting to work anything out when she described him and her feelings the way she did. That is just too big a mountain of issues to deal with for me.


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Oddly enough, my wife welcomes me groping her. But I know when a simple hug is all she wants at that moment. And yes, sex is on the mind with wandering hands. Married 27 years.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> All good advice and experiences. Well he does this every time he hugs me. He didn't do it when we were first married. Even within a couple of years. It started more recently. I asked him why he wants to go down my pants or grabs my boobs. He says it is what man does and that my body is his because we are married. I will admit I am going through menopause and I am also on depression meds so that doesn't help my libido. But having sex a couple a times a week is good enough for me, even though I have lost interest. I miss my younger years. He does it only in private but the moment he starts fondling me he gets turned on which is why I said sex on the brain. Maybe he doesn't want to have sex but he has a funny way of showing affection. I am all for kissing and hugging, but why go down my pants? He is threatening divorce and will ignore me for a while now as he usually does. I have asked for counseling but he says he isn't wrong, he never is...


I think he needs to learn that you want JUST A HUG sometimes-- that is totally ok. I know from prior experience how it can push a woman away if someone makes things sexual every single time you touch, hug or come near them. It creates a sort of dread. My wife has described the same thing with her ex-husband.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> why does she not like it?
> Is she OCD, and hates being touched?
> 
> does she have a negative image of her own sexiness, and can not possibly be sexy to her husband, so he is just an annoyance? (in which case he is just trying to convince her of her sexiness to HIM).
> ...


wow. you are straight out blaming OP for this. her husband has some very unattractive behaviours-- threatening divorce, not talking to her for days, and ONLY touching her in sexual ways.....it seems NORMAL to me that she would feel some repulsion.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> She just said it wasn't just the groping, but that he was abusive threatening divorce all the time, etc... very destabilising in a relationship.


You confused me for @aine. What she posted was spot on but it's not attributable to me. 

But I do usually harp on mutual respect in a relationship, especially when it comes to boundaries. One failed marriage taught me that _listening_ to my partner and acknowledging what they say is a huge sign of respect. That's something that seems to be lacking with the OP's husband.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

I touch my wife's breasts and butt all the time when kids are not around. She never has any issue with this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> I think he needs to learn that you want JUST A HUG sometimes-- that is totally ok. I know from prior experience how it can push a woman away if someone makes things sexual every single time you touch, hug or come near them. It creates a sort of dread. My wife has described the same thing with her ex-husband.


If a W feels dread when a H hugs her, she should tell him shes filing for D, period.

There's no coming back from that level of disrespect.


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## Lakesparrow (Mar 17, 2019)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Gah why can't they just squeeze your shoulders or kiss youe neck or run a finger down your cheek. Give a girl the shivers? Instead, they have to act like weirdos and grab the boob like a door handle. So gross. Dudes, watch an episode of days of our lives and get a clue.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lakesparrow said:


> Gah why can't they just squeeze your shoulders or kiss youe neck or run a finger down your cheek. Give a girl the shivers? Instead, they have to act like weirdos and grab the boob like a door handle. So gross. Dudes, watch an episode of days of our lives and get a clue.


It's not weird or gross to every woman. In fact, if a guy ran his finger down my cheek, I would find that weird. So we are quite different, like all people are.

And are you serious about watching Days of Our Lives to "get a clue"...?? A clue about what?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Lakesparrow said:


> Gah why can't they just squeeze your shoulders or kiss youe neck or run a finger down your cheek. Give a girl the shivers? Instead, they have to act like weirdos and grab the boob like a door handle. So gross. Dudes, watch an episode of days of our lives and get a clue.


You'll have to explain that further why you call guys weirdos and gross if they grab some butt or rub some tit when hugging their W when alone together. Especially in a long term M.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Lila said:


> You confused me for @aine. What she posted was spot on but it's not attributable to me.
> 
> But I do usually harp on mutual respect in a relationship, especially when it comes to boundaries. One failed marriage taught me that _listening_ to my partner and acknowledging what they say is a huge sign of respect. That's something that seems to be lacking with the OP's husband.


And with the OP is my guess. Unless you really think his actions are just arbitrary and capricious, and not a reaction.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Lakesparrow said:


> Gah why can't they just squeeze your shoulders or kiss youe neck or run a finger down your cheek. Give a girl the shivers? Instead, they have to act like weirdos and grab the boob like a door handle. So gross. Dudes, watch an episode of days of our lives and get a clue.


Ladies ... "Days" is fiction. It's not real.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When you can't touch em', best leave em'.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

I agree with whoever said that OP's dislike of being groped is a symptom and not the problem. It sounds like an unhealthy relationship.

When I was with my ex and our relationship had reached full-on trainwreck status, I remember cringing away from him if he tried to touch me, too. It wasn't because I hated sex or hated being touched. It was because I didn't trust him, he scared me, and he treated me like crap. With my current man, believe me, his squeezes and gropes are welcomed, and actually I think I squeeze his butt first during hugs. But he's a good man and we have a fun and healthy relationship. Big difference.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lakesparrow said:


> why can't they just squeeze your shoulders or kiss youe neck or run a finger down your cheek.


Boring..!! Lol! 


Lakesparrow said:


> Dudes, watch an episode of days of our lives and get a clue.


This is so weird.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

It depends, if he is showing his affection when you guys are private, and if you enjoy be physically intimacy, I say don’t discourage him but talk to him about how and when.

but man, reading so many “sexless marriages stories”, I think your situation is more on the positive side. 

and yeah, tell your guy porn is porn, real life is real life. They are different. What works in porn doesn’t work in real life most of the time. LOL


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> And with the OP is my guess. Unless you really think his actions are just arbitrary and capricious, and not a reaction.


I'm thinking OPs husband has no idea what respecting his wife's boundaries look like. I also think he lack complete emotional intelligence based on the following quotes:



Melinda 1967 said:


> I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. *I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. *Again my husband threatens divorce





Melinda 1967 said:


> Well he does this every time he hugs me. *He didn't do it when we were first married. Even within a couple of years.* It started more recently





Melinda 1967 said:


> I asked him why he wants to go down my pants or grabs my boobs. *He says it is what man does and that my body is his because we are married*





Melinda 1967 said:


> I am all for kissing and hugging, but *why go down my pants?*





Melinda 1967 said:


> *I have asked for counseling but he says he isn't wrong*


Maybe he could try _listening_ to the OP once in a while.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Please let your fourth husband know in advance that he can't touch your privates and you don't like sex. Be open and honest upfront. You shut down the sex store after just 5 years? This post is so common, its one of the main reasons I will never get married again.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Lila said:


> I'm thinking OPs husband has no idea what respecting his wife's boundaries look like. I also think he lack complete emotional intelligence based on the following quotes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, we are hearing a one sided account. My instinct tells me that there is plenty of not listening, and not respecting boundaries to go around.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> *Again, we are hearing a one sided account.* My instinct tells me that there is plenty of not listening, and not respecting boundaries to go around.


That is true of _every_ thread that is posted on TAM. The best we can do is ask questions and provide feedback based on the information provided. 

Of course, we can ignore what's written and provide feedback based on our own personal experiences which may or may not have any similarities to the OP. Those always make for interesting debates.


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## Lakesparrow (Mar 17, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> It's not weird or gross to every woman. In fact, if a guy ran his finger down my cheek, I would find that weird. So we are quite different, like all people are.
> 
> And are you serious about watching Days of Our Lives to "get a clue"...?? A clue about what?


Romance in general. I mean, I guess if getting goosed while you do the dishes or you're stirring dinner is your thing.....it's not mine. I'd like a gentle touch, a little romance, a dance in the kitchen.


DownButNotOut said:


> Ladies ... "Days" is fiction. It's not real.


IDK my guy did this stuff when he was wooing me. A little neck nibble while I was doing the dishes. A little kitchen dancing to our song. Those were the days. It made me feel desirable and treasured. I felt like a million bucks back then. If there was ant groping it came after that and it was nice, not shocking or startling. I guess there are women who prefer to get grabbed by the *****. I'm just not one of them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Once he knows you dislike it and continues to do it, he's crossing the line. And not every man gropes like that. I'm not married but I guess I've been really lucky because I've lived a really long life without having someone just disrespectfully grope me at inappropriate times. It's not only rude but once they know you don't like it, it's just plain stupid and indicates they like bothering you more than the thought of actually getting along with you and going about it that way.


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## Lakesparrow (Mar 17, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You'll have to explain that further why you call guys weirdos and gross if they grab some butt or rub some tit when hugging their W when alone together. Especially in a long term M.


I guess I like a warm up. Like, are you snuggling on the sofa and he goes in for the boob? Or is he being sudden and crass about it? Is he yanking at your pants before anything else? I'm not one to have my genitals grabbed at first. All of this said, I have been the aggressor for years and years and have gotten to know my not verbal husband's cues well. I know when he just wants a back scratch and a blow job so he can sleep good vs making love to me. If your wife prefers some tenderness first, give it to her. Lord knows when I get an ounce of that I'm instantly ready. Not that he would touch me with a ten foot pole these days.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Lila said:


> That is true of _every_ thread that is posted on TAM. The best we can do is ask questions and provide feedback based on the information provided.
> 
> Of course, we can ignore what's written and provide feedback based on our own personal experiences which may or may not have any similarities to the OP. Those always make for interesting debates.


Agreed. But to make the feedback as accurate as possible, isn't it appropriate to take the story and make inferences? Or is the purpose to simply ready an OP uncritically and pile on the OP's partner?

For instance, the groping is very likely related to her decision to ration their sex life below his comfort level. If her descriptions of him are indicative of how she has handled those discussions with him, I can imagine heated talk from both with neither truly listening -- probably culminating in him escalating to threatening D in the heat of the moment. She does mention that he tries to gloss over those comments once there has been time to cool down.

Personally, my take is that neither of them have learned how to be a good spouse in their prior 2 marriages. They shouldn't have entered into a third together, and she might as well call his bluff then next time he threatens D.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lakesparrow said:


> Romance in general. I mean, I guess if getting goosed while you do the dishes or you're stirring dinner is your thing.....it's not mine. I'd like a gentle touch, a little romance, a dance in the kitchen.


Oh, I definitely love gentle romantic touches. But what I really want is my guy's INTEREST and ATTENTION...so being annoyed or dismissive, or outright rejecting towards however HE gives that to me is counter-productive to getting what I really want. I would want to be enticing to him, and I wouldn't be that picky about how he shows that he's hot for me.

Besides, I'm not looking to be romanced all the time, or treated like a queen -- I love being playful and silly and flirty too.
And I used to giggle and sneakily rub my boobs on my STBX in the store (like on his arm), or in the kitchen when we weren't alone, or pinch his butt just to tease him...and then when he tried to grab me back I would twist away and laugh.

It was FUN and sexy, and a sign that things were great with us, and that we were into eachother. When things changed, that was one of the first things to go away.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I think he would be happy with every day if he could. But he did tell me 3 times would make him happy. Regardless, I am not happy in the marriage if truth be told. He is a perfectionist and does absolutely no wrong in his eyes. I suggested marriage counseling because I know it takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Third marriage here. It is funny you should mention a roommate because I have felt like that for some time now. A roommate with benefits. More to the story and maybe that is why I have lost interest. But he always talks divorce when he doesn't like what I say or do. He will ignore me. Last time he ignored me was for 5 days and that is because I did not go shopping with him one day. He throws the word around so lightly that I feel so unstable and insecure.


You have to realize that you are at least part of the problem if this is number three and sinking like the Titanic.

You can't force change on others but you can absolutely work on yourself.

I advise you to do just that.

Mrs. Conan can't go a single day without being molested several times. I happen to be totally in love with her as well as attracted to her.

You are painting a very one sided picture that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Are you so incredibly inept that you keep marrying useless, aggressive and stupid men? If so, you are the problem as the assholes you married were probably assholes all along.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I'm not totally blaming you OP. I see and agree with different views on your post


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> Agreed. But to make the feedback as accurate as possible, isn't it appropriate to take the story and make inferences? Or is the purpose to simply ready an OP uncritically and pile on the OP's partner?


The problem with making inferences is that people fill in the gaps based on their biases. When there are too many inferences, what you get is a bunch of people projecting their personal story onto the OP's. For eg., Those in sexually unsatisfying relationships will project their dissatisfaction onto the OP. Those inferences may be on point but more often than not they are so far off the mark they might as well be a work of fiction. Another eg. Those who enjoy being groped or groping their spouse will vilify the OP for not liking what they like.

We're all guilty of projection. I have found it's best to stick to the data at hand and ask more questions to fill the gaps.



> For instance, the groping is very likely related to her decision to ration their sex life below his comfort level. If her descriptions of him are indicative of how she has handled those discussions with him, I can imagine heated talk from both with neither truly listening -- probably culminating in him escalating to threatening D in the heat of the moment. She does mention that he tries to gloss over those comments once there has been time to cool down.


This is a good example of how inferences could make for interesting debate but not necessarily help the OP. What you read as rationing sex life below the OPs husband comfort level, I read as her compromising to 2 days a week. True, he's not getting everything he wants but then again, she's not either.

In my opinion, which is only shared by a small handful here, there is no amount of mental gymnastics to justify continuing to force undesirable behavior onto a partner. Regardless of what came before, the words "stop doing that, I don't like it" mean exactly that and, like it it not, should be respected. Continuing the behavior tells me that they don't give a **** about their partner or feel entitled to their body - neither one is good. Threatening divorce and silent treatments to get their way tells me this person is a selfish asshole (male or female).



> Personally, my take is that neither of them have learned how to be a good spouse in their prior 2 marriages. They shouldn't have entered into a third together, and *she might as well call his bluff then next time he threatens D.*.


Personally, I can't say whether or not OP has learned to be a good spouse but her picker is definitely broken. I do agree she should call his bluff, divorce, and spend time with a therapist to identify why she chooses such poor or incompatible partners.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I would say when this happened to me, XBF would grab HARD without warning because he didn't care to temper his touch to what I found enjoyable and play it off as "playful." If it is painful, I can certainly understand not wanting the groping. Is it that it is without "warmup," or that he only shows you affection that way? Have you ever enjoyed this type of touch with someone else?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Lakesparrow said:


> I guess I like a warm up. Like, are you snuggling on the sofa and he goes in for the boob? Or is he being sudden and crass about it? Is he yanking at your pants before anything else? I'm not one to have my genitals grabbed at first. All of this said, I have been the aggressor for years and years and have gotten to know my not verbal husband's cues well. I know when he just wants a back scratch and a blow job so he can sleep good vs making love to me. If your wife prefers some tenderness first, give it to her. Lord knows when I get an ounce of that I'm instantly ready. Not that he would touch me with a ten foot pole these days.


You didn't notice I started out saying when hugging....


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lila said:


> The problem with making inferences is that people fill in the gaps based on their biases. When there are too many inferences, what you get is a bunch of people projecting their personal story onto the OP's. For eg., Those in sexually unsatisfying relationships will project their dissatisfaction onto the OP. Those inferences may be on point but more often than not they are so far off the mark they might as well be a work of fiction. Another eg. Those who enjoy being groped or groping their spouse will vilify the OP for not liking what they like.
> 
> We're all guilty of projection. I have found it's best to stick to the data at hand and ask more questions to fill the gaps.
> 
> ...


I've noticed that the times there is the most projection by other members are when an OP will be vague or change their story in a few posts, or write 1 or 2 posts and then never return. 

With this OP, the situation she described in her first post changed a few times and she remained vague after she was asked to clarify a few things, and when posters do that and then don't return, I start to wonder how truthful they are being. 
I could always be wrong, but without a poster who is engaging in the discussion and adding details, I am not going to give them much of the benefit of doubt.

As far as the frequency issue that she discussed, when someone says something like, "I think that's enough of a compromise"...they are missing how the basic principle of compromise actually works.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

To me this looks like the classic bait and switch by her. And he's pissed. Big surprise. This marriage is already done - the sooner he or she follows thru and ends it the better for both of them.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I noticed my wife has been grabbing my ass a lot lately, especially after lunch. Her ass grabbing normally coincides with her initiating later in the evening. I love this.

However if I were to immediately grab her ass if she was say making a drink or something I think most of the time she would not like it, so I will ease into it and then she likes it until she realizes we’re in a full on grope/make out session in the middle of the work day. How scandalous! A professional doesn’t do that in the middle of the day. Then she’ll snap out of it, “ok ok I have work simmer down now!!!”


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Please let your fourth husband know in advance that he can't touch your privates and you don't like sex. Be open and honest upfront. You shut down the sex store after just 5 years? This post is so common, its one of the main reasons I will never get married again.


Total BS. As a man you either create attraction or you repel your wife-- the 'ownership' aspect of your spouse's body is not real. The 'sharing' aspect of your body with your spouse and her's with you is still EARNED, even after the vows. 

You know what it feels like to have someone you have no attraction for grab you and make every touch into a sexual advance? 

He was a part of creating that. He did not make her feel this way when they first got married and if she were to marry someone else it will not be like these-- she has no obligation to make some sort of statement like yours. You completely misunderstand her. 

Read some of the things he does and says. Lila put them out there pretty nicely.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

2&out said:


> To me this looks like the classic bait and switch by her. And he's pissed. Big surprise. This marriage is already done - the sooner he or she follows thru and ends it the better for both of them.


Bait and switch is more likely on his part. She is reacting as nature would have her. It's not abnormal to lose attraction that you may have once have when a man slowly (or quickly) turns into a lecher.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lila said:


> The problem with making inferences is that people fill in the gaps based on their biases. When there are too many inferences, what you get is a bunch of people projecting their personal story onto the OP's. For eg., Those in sexually unsatisfying relationships will project their dissatisfaction onto the OP. Those inferences may be on point but more often than not they are so far off the mark they might as well be a work of fiction. Another eg. Those who enjoy being groped or groping their spouse will vilify the OP for not liking what they like.
> 
> We're all guilty of projection. I have found it's best to stick to the data at hand and ask more questions to fill the gaps.
> 
> ...


Bravo!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I've noticed that the times there is the most projection by other members are when an OP will be vague or change their story in a few posts, or write 1 or 2 posts and then never return.
> 
> With this OP, the situation she described in her first post changed a few times and she remained vague after she was asked to clarify a few things, and when posters do that and then don't return, I start to wonder how truthful they are being.
> I could always be wrong, but without a poster who is engaging in the discussion and adding details, I am not going to give them much of the benefit of doubt.
> ...


There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences. 

The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants. 

For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the *****" theory.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lila said:


> There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences.
> 
> The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants.
> 
> For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the ***" theory.


I agree, absolutely. I certainly don't want to be treated in any way that makes me feel bad, and I am not going to allow anyone to define what that is for ME, either. Her level of interest matters a little to me if I'm using that to determine what she is really asking for with her post...but NOT for me to judge what that means for HER. 

I thought I caught hints from her that she used to be different with him (maybe not her feelings about the groping), and that her feelings have changed...and she did mention that anti-depressants and menopause, as well as "it was more exciting in the beginning", were reasons first, then she added her unhappiness with him (which I don't question).

I don't really judge anyone as good or bad with how they act or what their expectations are...I only want to make them aware of what I have seen or felt personally that were consequences of those actions or expectations in relationships. And I could always be wrong, of course. 

Then again, if I hear anything that sounds selfish or cold-hearted, I will call that out quickly, and have NO sympathy for it (but I didn't with this OP so far)...but I tend to avoid those threads with OPs like that, because that makes me feel bad, and I have very little to offer someone like that.

I do get caught up in "discussing" points with other posters who add things (especially if I don't agree!)...those can be stimulating and great learning opportunities for me!! Lol!

There are TOO MANY unknowns with this woman's situation to accurately know what's going on - how long has she known him, how long did they date before marriage? What did she like about him in the beginning? What were the red flags that she noticed about him and ignored? How does SHE act when she is angry at him? How does she respond to his silent treatment or when he says those mean things to her? Why did she start anti-depressants? Does she enjoy sex when they have it? Does HE?

The feeling I got from reading all her responses is that she's not really invested that much in this relationship (and I don't blame her for that), whether she was more in the beginning or not, and that she doesn't feel much passion either way. She doesn't sound like she needs him for anything, and he doesn't seem to make her happy. HE certainly doesn't sound invested or caring. So I don't think there is much to salvage here, in terms of love or connection. She also didn't seem to be asking how to improve her marriage, so I would hesitate to offer any advice for that. I think @Personal had the best advice first - make things easier and happier for herself, and take him up on his offer of divorce.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Lila said:


> There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences.
> 
> The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants.
> 
> For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the ***" theory.


I think the term you are talking about is confabulation.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

uwe.blab said:


> wow. you are straight out blaming OP for this. her husband has some very unattractive behaviours-- threatening divorce, not talking to her for days, and ONLY touching her in sexual ways.....it seems NORMAL to me that she would feel some repulsion.


she sure as heck PERCEIVES it that way.
but i suspect things are not the way the OP tells us.
I really wish we had her husband's side of the story here. something is not adding up


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Lila said:


> There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences.
> 
> The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants.
> 
> For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the ***" theory.


Isn't the OP the eye witness in this comparison?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I do get caught up in "discussing" points with other posters who add things (especially if I don't agree!)...those can be stimulating and great learning opportunities for me!! Lol!
> 
> There are TOO MANY unknowns with this woman's situation to accurately know what's going on - how long has she known him, how long did they date before marriage? What did she like about him in the beginning? What were the red flags that she noticed about him and ignored? How does SHE act when she is angry at him? How does she respond to his silent treatment or when he says those mean things to her? Why did she start anti-depressants? Does she enjoy sex when they have it? Does HE?


Those are all really good questions. And yes, I do get caught up in the discussions too. Lol. 


BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the term you are talking about is confabulation.


Thank you. It was going to drive me crazy not remembering the word. 



DownButNotOut said:


> Isn't the OP the eye witness in this comparison?


I have usually seen that term used for outside parties who weren't involved in the incident but may have observed it. Like when someone gets mugged on a busy street or a vehicular crash where there are multiple observers providing eye witness testimony.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> Total BS. As a man you either create attraction or you repel your wife-- the 'ownership' aspect of your spouse's body is not real. *The 'sharing' aspect of your body with your spouse and her's with you is still EARNED, even after the vows.*


Do you then also believe that the expectation of monogamy should still be earned, even after the vows?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Do you then also believe that the expectation of monogamy should still be earned, even after the vows?


Great question.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> Total BS. As a man you either create attraction or you repel your wife-- the 'ownership' aspect of your spouse's body is not real. The 'sharing' aspect of your body with your spouse and her's with you is still EARNED, even after the vows.
> 
> You know what it feels like to have someone you have no attraction for grab you and make every touch into a sexual advance?
> 
> ...


Not accurate as a blanket statement. 

So you're saying it's all the man? You seem to be overlooking all the TAM posters, guys, who are supposedly doing all your right things, and the W has and does cheat or just wants to live as a cake eater.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not accurate as a blanket statement.
> 
> So you're saying it's all the man? You seem to be overlooking all the TAM posters, guys, who are supposedly doing all your right things, and the W has and does cheat or just wants to live as a cake eater.


Wrong thread?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Great question.


She cheated on him?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Lila said:


> There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences.
> 
> The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants.
> 
> For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the ***" theory.


Right. Just because a bunch of people on here like being groped doesn't mean that everyone should-- especially if she never gets just a hug, it ALWAYS has to turn sexual. And yes, just because she liked it at one time doesn't mean he has full rights over her body. 

I venture that he created a lower attraction level and then doubled down on it by trying to force himself on her every time she wanted a hug. That feels like desperation and makes it even more awkward and uncomfortable for her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lila said:


> There is a psychological term for this which I can't recall at the moment. It's similar to why eye witness testimony are unreliable. Our brains fill the gaps based on what we "think" has happened based on our previously stored memories/experiences.
> 
> The OP's initial issue was the groping but she later added information about her deteriorating relationship with her husband. Many people locked onto those few lines to explain why she has no interest in having her husband grope her. Many failed to read that this behavior started a few years after they were married, or that she's told him to stop the behaviors but his response is "you're my wife so I am entitled to grope you" (paraphrase), or that he threatens divorce or that he sulks and stews for days (silent treatment) to get what he wants.
> 
> For me, the level of interest she has in her spouse is neither here nor there. If she doesn't want to be groped, then, regardless what other people enjoy or feel is proper behavior in their particular relationship, she should not be forced to be groped. Full stop. I just don't buy the whole "if you truly loved him or were sexually attracted to him you'd let him grab you by the ***" theory.


I never would have gone out with someone like that a second time, much less married them. And I think I can probably read the early signs of it as red flags so that probably explains why I never let it happen to me. If they were doing a bunch of crude innuendo or staring inappropriately early on, that would have been enough for me to just stay away. I don't mind witty banter at all even if it goes into the sexual arena and I have a good sense of humor but I can tell the difference between someone crude and rude and someone witty but who has boundaries.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I never would have gone out with someone like that a second time, much less married them. And I think I can probably read the early signs of it as red flags so that probably explains why I never let it happen to me. If they were doing a bunch of crude innuendo or staring inappropriately early on, that would have been enough for me to just stay away. I don't mind witty banter at all even if it goes into the sexual arena and I have a good sense of humor but I can tell the difference between someone crude and rude and someone witty but who has boundaries.


But people don't typically do that when they are dating. They....USUALLY are on their best behaviour. That's why I think the 'bait and switch' comment is more likely applicable to her husband than the OP.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Guy here.....there is a huge difference between playful/flirtacious touching and groping. Add tension to the relationship and things become more amplified. Why does she have to tell him to stop more than once? We only have a little information from the OP but if the husband thinks some nipple twisting is going to lead to sex he is an idiot, the guy needs to change his game.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

The oh we grope each other all the time. Also gloss right over the hands down the pants. I took that to mean inside the pants. My husband never just walks up and sticks his hands in my pants.

No not all men do that. 
In addition he is trying to change since they were married. He is getting more agressive and nasty. No one is attracted to some macho asshole who just says everyone else is doing it. Love it or divorce.

Sounds like he visited our sex in marriage forum got some typical red pill advice never even thought of romance and how the rest of the relationship is going. Just '''ugggg' me get more sex or divorce. Like everything or divorce....

I recommend you sit him down when neither of you are mad and explain the things you do like. Things that put you more in the mood. Also read a little about responsive desire. He's coming at you like you are already turned on and that you are supposed to get a hard on because he grabs your *****.

The flip side you need to understand that menopause does sometimes dampen libido but that doesn't mean it has to dampen enjoyment. Work to use your own mind to mentally want to have sex just because the hormones are lower doesn't mean your mind is off. And sex should still feel good if it ever did. I mean does mister romance do the right job or just help himself?

And think about hormone replacement. It is a decision for each person individually.

It all that fails to help mr. wonderful back into being mr. wonderful. Take your time get your **** in order and be the first to a lawyer. Don't threaten him with divorce just divorce his ass. Or try saying ok the next time he says it. Just say very quiet and calm. Ok I accept divorce. Stop letting him use it as a club.

Second post.


Melinda 1967 said:


> All good advice and experiences. Well he does this every time he hugs me. *He didn't do it when we were first married. Even within a couple of years. It started more recently.* * I asked him why he wants to go down my pants or grabs my boobs*. He says it is what man does and that my body is his because we are married. I will admit I am going through menopause and I am also on depression meds so that doesn't help my libido. But having sex a couple a times a week is good enough for me, even though I have lost interest. I miss my younger years. He does it only in private but the moment he starts fondling me he gets turned on which is why I said sex on the brain. Maybe he doesn't want to have sex but he has a funny way of showing affection. I am all for kissing and hugging, *but why go down my pants*? He is threatening divorce and will ignore me for a while now as he usually does. I have asked for counseling but he says he isn't wrong, he never is...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Elvis has left the building


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> But people don't typically do that when they are dating. They....USUALLY are on their best behaviour. That's why I think the 'bait and switch' comment is more likely applicable to her husband than the OP.


That's certainly true, but you don't always meet someone on an official date either, so it could be just someone you met around work or out doing hobbies that you could see glimmers of the behavior. Just saying that if I did, I wouldn't go out with or continue anything with them. 

Once a man knows you don't like it and harasses you with it anyway, it's just a dealbreaker for a number of reasons. Disrespect, disregard for your feelings, and if he just keeps it up because he must enjoy just bothering her, at that point he's acting like her bratty little brother, and no one wants to sleep with that. So doesn't much matter how it originated, I guess, but it goes downhill fast because at that point he's created what he feared most, but of course, some men will blame that on the woman not being in the right state of mind or whatever -- and to that I say thank the Lord some women have better sense than to cater to men who don't really care about them. Others, sadly, feel too stuck and afraid to just walk. Think what that looks like to the kids. That's their role model. The girls will think they have to put up with it and the boys will think that's how you get what you want, by being a bully. And of course, it'll be her that has to run up to the school the first time her boy does this to a student....


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> Elvis has left the building


And if that is true. I wonder why. Because of the chorus of burn the witch if you dont' want someone to walk up with no foreplay and stick their hands down your pants? And that's is supposed to turn her on and make her want to have sex. 

The best TAM could do was how could you not be turned on? Really I have no doubt as to why she may have left here.


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## Junebug86 (Mar 16, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.





Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Melinda, I have been married for 30 years. My husband use to approach me in the same manner you described. To be honest, it was a huge turn off. I was able to take control of the situation by giving him a kiss, hug, etc. He finally figured out that if he wanted great sex, approaching me with a hug, kiss, putting on good music was a much better approach. Men forget that they must continue to date their wives.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uwe.blab said:


> if she were to marry someone else it will not be like these--


Well, this is number three. She has to understand there is some culpability on her at some level, at the very least for marrying unrepentant assholes but she may also be contributing something to the dynamic that keeps spelling doom for her marriages.

I'm a firm believer in no means no and I don't have any problems getting my woman heated so I'm positive there is something lacking in her husband. She does need to examine herself to find out what her part in all of this is if she doesn't want to keep repeating the same mistakes.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I think I mentioned the husband was an asshole?


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## Parallax857 (May 15, 2012)

I've been married three times and have a good number of other relationships. My experience is that each one was different. I don't think there's a right or wrong here; just what works for people. I will say that when the sex goes bad, it's usually a sign of deeper communication problems. 

I'm super happy in my marriage and, at this point, my wife and I don't have much sex. That's alright though because the desire is there for both of us and the love is strong. She has a history with some trauma so it wouldn't work to just grab her in an overtly sexual way. I approach gently. Even once we're in bed, it wouldn't work if I got too frisky. Works better to let her lead. This is fine and very different than some of my earlier relationships. I've been with women who rarely wanted sex. I've been with women (one in particular) who wanted it all the time. Some have wanted deep intimacy. Others have been good with overt expressions of desire. Some have wanted both. As I said, there's no right or wrong in my opinion. Just what works and what doesn't. And if it's not working, it's time to think about couples counseling. 

If your partner isn't willing to be considerate of your needs or attend counseling together, that's a big concern. The threats to leave sound like they're coming from hurt. He may feel unloved or unattractive when you don't respond to his bids for sexual connection. Perhaps you could be clear that you want this to work for him and that it has to work for you too, and invite him to therapy as a strategy of working together to find a common sexual language.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> The oh we grope each other all the time. Also gloss right over the hands down the pants. I took that to mean inside the pants. My husband never just walks up and sticks his hands in my pants.


When groping my wife I will sometimes put a hand inside her knickers or pull them aside to have a feel.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Personal said:


> When groping my wife I will sometimes put a hand inside her knickers or pull them aside to have a feel.


So OP should be ecstatic because you do it sometimes


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> So OP should be ecstatic because you do it sometimes


He is in a successful and loving, long term marriage.

He is illustrating that it isn't the groping in and of itself that is the problem in OP's marriage.

I molest Mrs. C several times a day, every day and we have a good marriage.

I suspect OP would respond far more warmly if she felt loved throughout her day.

The dysfunction isn't the physical act, it's the lack of conveying love to each of them.

He sounds as pleasant as a hemorrhoid (as described) and she is a block of ice which is understandable given her post.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> He is in a successful and loving, long term marriage.
> 
> He is illustrating that it isn't the groping in and of itself that is the problem in OP's marriage.
> 
> ...


It is the groping that is the problem because she doesn't like it and he's doing it anyway and that's a massive problem. Whether other couples agree on it is irrelevant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Parallax857 said:


> I've been married three times and have a good number of other relationships. My experience is that each one was different. I don't think there's a right or wrong here; just what works for people. I will say that when the sex goes bad, it's usually a sign of deeper communication problems.
> 
> I'm super happy in my marriage and, at this point, my wife and I don't have much sex. That's alright though because the desire is there for both of us and the love is strong. She has a history with some trauma so it wouldn't work to just grab her in an overtly sexual way. I approach gently. Even once we're in bed, it wouldn't work if I got too frisky. Works better to let her lead. This is fine and very different than some of my earlier relationships. I've been with women who rarely wanted sex. I've been with women (one in particular) who wanted it all the time. Some have wanted deep intimacy. Others have been good with overt expressions of desire. Some have wanted both. As I said, there's no right or wrong in my opinion. Just what works and what doesn't. And if it's not working, it's time to think about couples counseling.
> 
> If your partner isn't willing to be considerate of your needs or attend counseling together, that's a big concern. The threats to leave sound like they're coming from hurt. He may feel unloved or unattractive when you don't respond to his bids for sexual connection. Perhaps you could be clear that you want this to work for him and that it has to work for you too, and invite him to therapy as a strategy of working together to find a common sexual language.


Said but I don't know why she should care about his feelings since he has absolutely none for hers on the subject.


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## Parallax857 (May 15, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Said but I don't know why she should care about his feelings since he has absolutely none for hers on the subject.


When it comes to empathy, someone has to be willing to go first. I don't advocate being a doormat. That's why I think therapy is important. Unless she says, "I see that my reaction is hurting your feelings" and he responds with empathy. If that happens, a therapist may not be necessary. Of course it's also possible nothing will work and they'll either stay together unhappily or split up. I root for options 1 and 2 but it takes two. If the other spouse won't respond in kind, then I prefer option 4 to option 3.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It is the groping that is the problem because she doesn't like it and he's doing it anyway and that's a massive problem. Whether other couples agree on it is irrelevant.


Missed it completely. There are far more fundamental problems in their marriage. It isn't as surface as you would imply and her own later posts illustrate how dysfunctional the marriage is.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> So OP should be ecstatic because you do it sometimes


Perhaps you missed this.



Personal said:


> I (50) grope my wife's (51) private parts quite often, yet she is fine with it and it has ever been thus through more than 25 years of being together.
> 
> However it is a significant concern that your husband feels that he owns your body as his property, and that he doesn't respect that you don't like him doing this. Given the fact that your husband is trying to manipulate you and is also threatening divorce over this, I encourage you to give him what he wants and divorce him as soon as you possibly can.


That said since you were sharing.



Anastasia6 said:


> My husband never just walks up and sticks his hands in my pants.


I shared to.



Personal said:


> I will sometimes put a hand inside her knickers


😉


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> And if that is true. I wonder why. Because of the chorus of burn the witch if you dont' want someone to walk up with no foreplay and stick their hands down your pants? And that's is supposed to turn her on and make her want to have sex.
> 
> The best TAM could do was how could you not be turned on? Really I have no doubt as to why she may have left here.


Nah, I think it was all the posters that agreed with her all too common mantra “get your hands off me you damn dirty ape”.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Missed it completely. There are far more fundamental problems in their marriage. It isn't as surface as you would imply and her own later posts illustrate how dysfunctional the marriage is.


Well the problem she brought to this forum is the groping problem so apparently that is the priority to her. I have no reason not to believe her. I don't think it matters if there's other problems if this is the one she feels she needs to address that is alienating her the most.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> When I read that line I empathized with her. For me, the only time I'm touched is for sex or when sex is on the brain. I'm never hugged except for a hi, bye kind of deal and when I am touched it's copious groping and I hate it too for that vary reason.
> 
> It's not that I don't like a slap on the ass, or a breast grab, ect. It's when that's the only physical 'affection' I receive. It get's old.


I learnt on a marriage counselling, for men it's about the destination, for women it's the journey, therein the problem


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I think the overarching moral of this thread is "know your audience". It's true for the OP who posted on TAM (and has since left the building), and it's true for the people who posted their feelings on groping. 

For the people who are pro-groping, it serves as a barometer for the state of their relationship.

For the people who are anti-groping, it's a sign of disrespect and a sexual turn-off. 

To each their own.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

We are still here debating this? She doesn't like it. Full stop. Husband sucks it up. It's not the end of the world if he can't stick his finger inside her vagina every day when she is making breakfast.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

OP, I have had a similar situation. My husband would grope me (home alone obviously) on many occasions, and a couple of times did it in front of my kids (they were in the room and he would try to hide it, which pissed me off). After a while, it can get annoying, so I know what you mean. It has nothing to do with the attraction aspect, it's just straight up annoying. He especially had the habit of doing in the morning, when I was sleeping (and I hate for my sleep to be interrupted). We had a few arguments over it, I said he needed to respect boundaries and personal space. He more or less got the picture after a while... although it still happens on occasion, he'll know by my facial expressions if I'm into it or not.


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## LeslieD125 (Jan 1, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


"I just said to my husband this morning "I wish I could have non-sexual touch with you". He said, "You can." Most of the time, I'm glad our brains and bodies work differently. He gave me that gift of touch with no expectation of sex. It was truly a gift because his brain and body don't work that way. I'm so thankful that he made a strong decision to give non-sexual touch at times. Other times, it's game on  . It doesn't have to be either/or. Men, I would say make a decision to compromise at times in this department. You may just find that it ups the game at other times because your wife will feel more cherished by you.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

aine said:


> I learnt on a marriage counselling, for men it's about the destination, for women it's the journey, therein the problem


Absolutely. And having both the man and woman be aware of this makes the ride much smoother, but some couples have to die to themselves, to their own selfish desires in order to make the experience and journey one worth taking. You literally have to be intentional as a male to provide that that ride for your wife knowing that's what going to get her to the destination he wants to end up at, and the wife needs to understand her man is physical and needs to be able to see her visually, feel her body as well and in turn have his body felt. 

I really do believe it boils down to intention and loving your spouse more than yourself in those moments and that's hard for so many.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

LeslieD125 said:


> "I just said to my husband this morning "I wish I could have non-sexual touch with you". He said, "You can." Most of the time, I'm glad our brains and bodies work differently. He gave me that gift of touch with no expectation of sex. It was truly a gift because his brain and body don't work that way. I'm so thankful that he made a strong decision to give non-sexual touch at times. Other times, it's game on  . It doesn't have to be either/or. Men, I would say make a decision to compromise at times in this department. You may just find that it ups the game at other times because your wife will feel more cherished by you.


I have gone through this and learned that it is definitely a positive to have a kind of non-sexual intimacy. It makes my wife feel more comfortable and often goes forward by her lead because she doesnt feel any pressure to do so.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> I have gone through this and learned that it is definitely a positive to have a kind of non-sexual intimacy. It makes my wife feel more comfortable and often goes forward by her lead because she doesnt feel any pressure to do so.


 Say what?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Say what?


He saying that touching his wife outside of the expectation of "If I hug my wife, kiss her deeply.. it doesn't mean okay, now we go have sex." Doing an act of love without tying on anything in return therefore, goes a long way to satisfy the intimacy a female craves and betters his sex life.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> He saying that touching his wife outside of the expectation of "If I hug my wife, kiss her deeply.. it doesn't mean okay, now we go have sex." Doing an act of love without tying on anything in return therefore, goes a long way to satisfy the intimacy a female craves and betters his sex life.


🙄 Really? How does that work?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> 🙄 Really? How does that work?


Are you trolling me? Because it seems pretty common sense to myself and the OP.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> 🙄 Really? How does that work?


It doesn’t.

He probably doesn’t have much of a sex life.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Are you trolling me? Because it seems pretty common sense to myself and the OP.


U got me. I'm new at the marriage game, only 37yrs M.

Its sometimes a hoot when someone lays out the obvious stuff as a great unknown they're sharing. Your post just tickled me.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> And if that is true. I wonder why. Because of the chorus of burn the witch if you dont' want someone to walk up with no foreplay and stick their hands down your pants? And that's is supposed to turn her on and make her want to have sex.
> 
> The best TAM could do was how could you not be turned on? Really I have no doubt as to why she may have left here.


This is that bitter _truth be told._

Men are from _Mars_, women from _Venus._

Men can be hard, and have the penis, woman are usually, less hard, but they own the pink slip, with its power of termination.


_Mabel-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> He saying that touching his wife outside of the expectation of "If I hug my wife, kiss her deeply.. it doesn't mean okay, now we go have sex." Doing an act of love without tying on anything in return therefore, goes a long way to satisfy the intimacy a female craves and betters his sex life.


I know.....

But, it is so hard.


_The Typist-_


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> I know.....
> 
> But, it is so hard.
> 
> ...


Ha ha, lol. 😉


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> He saying that touching his wife outside of the expectation of "If I hug my wife, kiss her deeply.. it doesn't mean okay, now we go have sex." Doing an act of love without tying on anything in return therefore, goes a long way to satisfy the intimacy a female craves and betters his sex life.


Yep sometimes it’s great fun to walk up to my wife, kiss the side of her neck from behind and lift her skirt to run a single finger down the inside edge of her knickers. Then let her go and walk away with a smile.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> And if that is true. I wonder why. Because of the chorus of burn the witch if you dont' want someone to walk up with no foreplay and stick their hands down your pants? And that's is supposed to turn her on and make her want to have sex.
> 
> The best TAM could do was how could you not be turned on? Really I have no doubt as to why she may have left here.


What if you don't have any pants on?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> I know.....
> 
> But, it is so hard.
> 
> ...


I agree totally that it's difficult. You have to be very intentional and selfless when you do it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What if you don't have any pants on?


We did that and wore even less, when my wife and I went to a nudist beach. 😎


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Personal said:


> It doesn’t.
> 
> He probably doesn’t have much of a sex life.


I am sure this isn't the first time you have been wrong, but it is alarming to see some of the responses on here-- as if it a right to take someone sexually whether they want it or not, many seem to be saying. 

And....then wonder why the OP is feeling uncomfortable...and... repulsed.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> I am sure this isn't the first time you have been wrong, but it is alarming to see some of the responses on here-- as if it a right to take someone sexually whether they want it or not, many seem to be saying.
> 
> And....then wonder why the OP is feeling uncomfortable...and... repulsed.


It's not? And why does it matter?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> I am sure this isn't the first time you have been wrong,


I don’t know I read your posts and unfortunately they don’t read like you have the kind of marriage, that generates a rich and frequent sex life.



uwe.blab said:


> What ends up happening though is my wife feels like I abandon here (because I do shut down when there is constant fighting) and I basically hate my life. I am very close to giving up.





uwe.blab said:


> My wife....well, it got to the point the other day that she said she is going to move out in a month.


 But hey if your wife is banging you as much as my wife bangs me, you ought to be congratulated.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's not? And why does it matter?


What is the point in taking personal stabs at someone who points out the valid idea that a wife/woman has a right to not wanting every experience to turn sexual? Especially when the husband has done so much to damage his attraction level. What does that have to do with me?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> I don’t know I read your posts and unfortunately they don’t read like you have the kind of marriage, that generates a rich and frequent sex life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naughty!


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Personal said:


> I don’t know I read your posts and unfortunately they don’t read like you have the kind of marriage, that generates a rich and frequent sex life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well, again, you have been wrong before-- your attitude and tone betray you. Not really sure of your point in the original response still. We have all seen what we have seen and just because your wife is ok with only sexual physical encounters does not invalidate the truth of my post. I have no idea why you feel like talking yourself up on here.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> What is the point in taking personal stabs at someone who points out the valid idea that a wife/woman has a right to not wanting every experience to turn sexual? Especially when the husband has done so much to damage his attraction level. What does that have to do with me?


Know your audience.....


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> What is the point in taking personal stabs at someone who points out the valid idea that a wife/woman has a right to not wanting every experience to turn sexual? Especially when the husband has done so much to damage his attraction level. What does that have to do with me?


No one is suggesting that every relationship experience be sexual. This isn’t kindergarten, if you think that’s what’s being suggested here, I encourage you to think further.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> What is the point in taking personal stabs at someone who points out the valid idea that a wife/woman has a right to not wanting every experience to turn sexual? Especially when the husband has done so much to damage his attraction level. What does that have to do with me?


@Personal said it better than I did.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Personal said:


> No one is suggesting that every relationship experience be sexual. This isn’t kindergarten, if you think that’s what’s being suggested here, I encourage you to think further.


I encourage you to read the post that started the thread. The very first one. 

And yes, there are people suggesting to that OP that she should in fact put up with being treated in a way that makes her uncomfortable, it is happening all the way through this discussion.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @Personal said it better than I did.


And again, he is incorrect. And irrelevant. Seems like you prefer to play games on this board rather than discuss the actual situation at hand.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

uwe.blab said:


> What is the point in taking personal stabs at someone who points out the valid idea that a wife/woman has a right to not wanting every experience to turn sexual? Especially when the husband has done so much to damage his attraction level. What does that have to do with me?


On being quoted and cited, seems often the speeding (there) ticket.

On TAM, someone gets to be the unwitting target to make their point.

That point sharp and hopefully hitting the target, near dead-center.

Don't let it get to you.
...................................................................................

An aside: The lefties on here do this with consistently, without adding value (or worthy facts) to the discussion.
.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> On being quoted and cited, seems often the speeding (there) ticket.
> 
> On TAM, someone gets to be the unwitting target to make their point.
> 
> ...


so....calling Ragnar and Personal lefties is now somehow "adding value". Jeesh.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

uwe.blab said:


> so....calling Ragnar and Personal lefties is now somehow "adding value". Jeesh.


Yes, indeed. "Owning the libs" is now a cottage industry, complete with score cards, achievement awards, certificates of merit, and one day (jehovah willing) a hall of fame.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

uwe.blab said:


> so....calling _Ragnar and Personal _lefties is now somehow "adding value". Jeesh.


No, no, no, uh-uh.

Those names left, are not theirs; those on TAM are well known, not well renowned.

I may be forced to add yours to the list.
Tread carefully!


_Are Dee- _Yeah, I should not have added that 'aside'. Damn, here is the result, -----> my right flank taking a hit.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Yes, indeed. "Owning the libs" is now a cottage industry, complete with score cards, achievement awards, certificates of merit, and one day (jehovah willing) a hall of fame.


Well hello Bub, thou out from the woodwork, the Bob Woodward files.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Yes, indeed. "Owning the libs" is now a cottage industry, complete with score cards, achievement awards, certificates of merit, and one day (jehovah willing) a hall of fame.


No right-minded person would want to own this left field lot.
A parking lot owned by crazies, and known to be unsafe at all hours of the day.

Your skin will get keyed, your very Kia _Soul _will be taken and abandoned on those, their needle strewn streets.


_Nemesis-_


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Personal said:


> When groping my wife I will sometimes put a hand inside her knickers or pull them aside to have a feel.


I liked your unedited version better...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> Not really sure of your point in the original response


My point in my original response, was to encourage the OP to divorce her husband. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.



Personal said:


> I (50) grope my wife's (51) private parts quite often, yet she is fine with it and it has ever been thus through more than 25 years of being together.
> 
> However it is a significant concern that your husband feels that he owns your body as his property, and that he doesn't respect that you don't like him doing this. Given the fact that your husband is trying to manipulate you and is also threatening divorce over this, I encourage you to give him what he wants and divorce him as soon as you possibly can.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lila said:


> I think the overarching moral of this thread is "know your audience". It's true for the OP who posted on TAM (and has since left the building), and it's true for the people who posted their feelings on groping.
> 
> For the people who are pro-groping, it serves as a barometer for the state of their relationship.
> 
> ...


I think the other moral, or interesting note, is that the projection and inferences come from ALL sides.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I liked your unedited version better...


Shhhh…. 😉


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

uwe.blab said:


> Total BS. As a man you either create attraction or you repel your wife-- the 'ownership' aspect of your spouse's body is not real. The 'sharing' aspect of your body with your spouse and her's with you is still *EARNED*,* even after the vows.*


What you said is very interesting!
By this logic, the wife doesn't have access to the husband *resources*, *attention* and *commitment* unless she EARNS it, *even after the vows!*
If she wants access to all of these (*resources*, *attention* and *commitment*), she needs to EARNE it by given him access to her sexually!

You see where I'm going with this?
You can't just pick one thing (access to body) and ignore the rest!
It's not a pick and choose game!
So yes, if a husband is preforming his traditional duty, he should have access to his wife sexually (not by force, but by her allowing him to!)

What we are seeing today is some disgusting double standards, where the men are getting married but the marriage is rigged from the beginning!
You are as a man expected to preform your full traditional role, but the wife does not, and can pick and choose what she wants to give while she expects to take all, even the system encourages it!
A husband can't just wake up one morning and decides he is not going to pay the bells or his wife car insurance because he is not in the mood or because she didn't earn it!

So if you wan't to go by who earns what you have to be fair!
And also saying he has to earn it *even after the vows* means a man can also be loyal to his wife only if she earns it!

Think about it:
*Husband:* Your so hot today ((( he attempts to initiate )))
*Wife:* No, I'm not in the mood..
*Husband:* Oh common, you have been saying that for the past months.. it will be fun, I promise, and I will make it worth while..
*Wife:* Stop touching me, told you not in the mood!!!!

*(((( After three weeks ))))

Wife:* Honey, I can't take a shower, there is no hot water!!!!!
*Husband: *Oh ya sorry, didn't pay for the gas/electricity bell!
*Wife:* Why what happened? why didn't you pay??? we have no hot water!!!!!
*Husband:* wasn't in the mood for paying, start learning to take a shower with cold water.. hay many Russian do that, it's known to be very healthy and boosts you immune system!

*(((( After one day ))))

Wife: *I got an email from the insurance company saying I can't drive my car because it's not insured any more!!
*Husband:* Ya sorry, didn't pay for that either, wan't in the mood, you can walk or cycle, it's much healthier 
*Wife:* Can you at least drop me at my appointment??!!!
*Husband:* No, sorry I'm not in the mood to drive now!

*(((( After one day ))))*

Wife comes on TAM and writes her story about the jerk husband... posters start to SHAME the husband and how toxic he is, he needs to man up and take responsibility, it's his duty to do so when he took his VOWS.. Yes the vows mean something now because it benefits her!!
... everyone starts giving her advice how to take him to the cleaners!

Many women feel entitled to every thing from the husband, but the husband is not entitled to her body or anything from her, and he has to beg for it or do some kind of transaction to get some (You do this and I will give you a quicky!)

The only men that survived such entitlement from their wives are the men who have their act together, along with an iron clad prenup slammed into the mix (thank almighty god I have one), or the men that don't really care what it will cost to bail out once they feel they are being disrespected!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

uwe.blab said:


> I encourage you to read the post that started the thread. The very first one.
> 
> And yes, there are people suggesting to that OP that she should in fact put up with being treated in a way that makes her uncomfortable, it is happening all the way through this discussion.


I don't know where you are seeing all kinds of people saying she should just put up with it if she doesn't like it. I can't recall anyone saying that. What many are saying is the fact that she is repulsed by it is a sign that there is more wrong in the marriage than the husband getting handsy. In many marriages that personal and sexually charged touching is just an extension of the attraction and desire the spouses have (or should have) for each other. Not every touch is expected to lead straight to sex. Like I said, it is common for me to cup my wife's breast when I kiss her hello, goodbye, whatever. I'm just expressing my physical attraction to her and she does the same. I am not expecting it to immediately lead to sex, but I certainly want her to know I'm interested in her, and it will wait till an appropriate time.

In the original post the OP asked if it is normal for a husband to grope his wife's private parts. I suppose it depends on how you define normal, but the simple answer is yes, it is normal, as seen here by a lot of us saying it happens in our relationships. Then she goes on to say, "I don't like it only because sex is on the brain." Love and sexual interest in your spouse are pretty difficult to untangle in a healthy marriage. They are woven together pretty tightly, especially for men IMO. The fact that she is repulse by him doing this tells me she is no longer in love with her husband. I'm sure that is at least partially the fault of the husband. Threatening divorce on a regular basis should be the reddest of flag that the marriage is in peril. The also seems to be a lack of good communication. She can't seem to get him to understand she feels like a piece of meat and wants something different and he doesn't seem to be able to get her to understand he wants/needs that physical contact to feel connected to her.

So asking about the normalcy of her husband groping her is not the question she should be asking. She should be asking something more like if she should try to work with her husband to save the marriage or end it with divorce and move on.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Kaliber said:


> What we are seeing today is some disgusting double standards, where the men are getting married but the marriage is rigged from the beginning!


Who is advocating for these "disgusting double standards?". I don't see it here, I'm certainly not encountering it in the media I consume.

I think it is almost universally agreed that sex is an expected part of marriage, and that a spouse of either gender who decides not to participate does so at their own peril of becoming an ex-spouse - to the agreement of just about everyone.


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## Slowhand (Oct 8, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Your husband should care about your sexual feelings. All men are not like him!! Real men want to please their women and should always seek acceptance as they approach. Women are so much more complex than men as their bodies responds in different ways at different times as their moods flow. I think I know what I'm talking about as a married man for 50 years. Don't take his threats of divorce. If he is that selfish and Neanderthal, go shopping for another who will respect and adore you as you should be.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> What you said is very interesting!
> By this logic, the wife doesn't have access to the husband *resources*, *attention* and *commitment* unless she EARNS it, *even after the vows!*
> If she wants access to all of these (*resources*, *attention* and *commitment*), she needs to EARNE it by given him access to her sexually!
> 
> ...


I agree with you about the double standard. Sex seems to be put into a special category away from all the other roles and responsibilities that come with marriage. I can see from the standpoint of women, it is their body and they get to chose what they do with their own body. All fine, but when you get married you are both giving a part of you to your spouse. Every woman knows sex is supposed to be included in the package that comes along with marriage, just like helping each other provide shelter, food, etc. And I honestly believe sex really is the glue that keeps a marriage together. Your examples are spot on. If a woman exercises her right to not have sex with her husband, over and over for a long period of time then the husband can exercise his right to not show her affection or emotional support then she stops doing something else for him and he does it too. All this ends up putting distance between spouses. Obviously other things can break a marriage too, but it does seem like lack of sex is seen as the man's problem and he should just suck it up and deal with it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Slowhand said:


> Your husband should care about your sexual feelings. All men are not like him!! Real men want to please their women and should always seek acceptance as they approach. Women are so much more complex than men as their bodies responds in different ways at different times as their moods flow. I think I know what I'm talking about as a married man for 50 years. Don't take his threats of divorce. If he is that selfish and Neanderthal, go shopping for another who will respect and adore you as you should be.


Always seek acceptance as they approach? Maybe not the best phrasing but the gist is accurate. Don't be a butt. Be a man. That's another way to say it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I think the other moral, or interesting note, is that the projection and inferences come from ALL sides.


Yes that's true. It's a peek into people's lives. It does reinforce my belief that sexual compatibility is at least 50% of what defines a successful relationship. 

It took me and my partner a while to get to where we're at now but I'm so glad that I followed my gut and didn't settle for someone else just because I was told "that's what men do" or "that's how they think". There is a lid for every pot. It might not be perfectly shaped but the fit is perfect.


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## GoodGuyRicky (Sep 9, 2021)

Melinda 1967 said:


> I know this is a sore subject but the reason I joined is because I wanted to find out if husbands believe Groping private parts is normal. I don't like it only because sex is on the brain. I just want a simple hug if I ask for it. I just want to be held without an octopus all over me. Again my husband threatens divorce. He said it's just what guys do. I feel like a piece of meat honestly. We have been married 5 years and we are in our 50s. I don't even know what to do anymore.


Sometimes I wish my wife thought the way you do- when we were first dating she had a pic on Facebook of one of her guy acquaintances grabbing her chest and I told her it bothered me so she took it down but told me I was making too big a deal out of it because “he’s just a friend and he didn’t mean anything by it”. Girl, I’m a man and I guarantee you he was getting enjoyment out of it; are you kidding me?! When you’re as chesty as you are a guy isn’t grabbing your breasts for nothing! Ultimately, it’s her body and up to her what she’s ok with but I was always taught to keep your hands to yourself. As far as your husband is concerned, I would have a frank discussion about how he’s making you feel. There’s no reason why he should not respect your boundaries for your body.


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