# Big fight......trickle truth



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Well, unfortunately, the marriage is over. At counseling, on Tuesday, wife showed me e-mails she had received a month BEFORE her affair, with another guy, on line. Some of them were pretty emotional. He told her that he didn't care if she couldn't have kids, and that he loved her the way she is. She responded that her H (ME!!) was "pressuring ", her to have a family and that "she didn't know if we would stay together". Would it be possible for them to meet? She swears that they didn't, but I don't believe a word she says. She showed me the last ones, saying that she would not be talking to him again, as we were re-connecting. I f88king blew up. I'm done with her and all of her lies. So she NOW says that this is everything. She's told me that same thing 3 times before. I called my lawyer and re-started the paperwork, kicked her out and am not going to take her back, again. I would like to thank all of the posters, who have tried to help, but this is not going to get any better, and I finally have made up my mind . It isn't worth the effort and the pain , if the cheater continues to lie and deceive.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Good move. Working things out post affair only works if you have someone who is worth it and willing to put in the work. Sorry to hear about this. Just get your affairs and order and chalk it up as a lesson learned.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> Good move. Working things out post affair only works if you have someone who is worth it and willing to put in the work. Sorry to hear about this. Just get your affairs and order and chalk it up as a lesson learned.


Thaks, BM, and that is exactly what I'm doing. I rented a storage garage, and have spent the day, boxing up her stuff, to take there. I changed my cell phone number and have blocked her from my PC, FB, , texting, E-mails, the whole business. I'm done with her. I may even go to the Bar, tonight and get loaded. Hey, I'm a single guy, so I can do anything I want. BTW, I also thanked the counselor, but told her I wouldn't be back.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I feel for you Dow. Men do know when the end has come and there’s absolutely no going back. I think we have “rules” or boundaries in our subconscious that we’re not fully aware of until things like this happen. Once those rules/boundaries have been crossed they leap right into our consciousness. Then when we give them a chance, hey it’s only once right?, and they go and break that rule again and again then they’re out. You gave your wife a fair go, a very fair go man.

When our rules/boundaries are broken a few times it is truly painful, sometimes way beyond our imagination. I reckon you’re going to grieve what was and what might have been. It will be good for you to look up the grieving process so you know what’s ahead of you.

With you all the way mate, in or out.

Bob


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Couldn't agree more AFEH. I'm all for second chances, but I feel there has to be limits if someone shows no remorse and doesn't appear willing to change. A lot of the advice on this board tends to suggest numerous chances until the spouse snaps out of it, but I just don't feel that is natural. Staying with a habitual cheater is just as abusive to yourself as a woman staying with a man who beats her. At some point you have to begin looking out for your own health and sanity.

Enjoy the single life Dow. Be sure you don't take it out on the next one.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> Couldn't agree more AFEH. I'm all for second chances, but I feel there has to be limits if someone shows no remorse and doesn't appear willing to change. A lot of the advice on this board tends to suggest numerous chances until the spouse snaps out of it, but I just don't feel that is natural. Staying with a habitual cheater is just as abusive to yourself as a woman staying with a man who beats her. At some point you have to begin looking out for your own health and sanity.
> 
> Enjoy the single life Dow. Be sure you don't take it out on the next one.


Yup. That sort of advice, if he follows it, just weakens the man. Makes him look and feel all lovey dovey. There may come a time for that but that’s when the affairs dead in the water and all the truth is out.

Bob


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree: with the others. Its time to move on. Steel yourself for the begging and pleading.


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dow, your wife brain is wired like some other females brains. It say's "primary male is not stable, must find backup male, ASAP to take care of me, at all cost" So what this is that they always have 2 males going, one primary, and one just in case (backup). What they do is they always have one that is a "good friend" so they can have a place to stay, and a place to start a new love just in case. I thing you wife fits this mold very well. You can look back at her life and probably see this. I think it's sick how they think like this. "were just good friends" hint hint !!!!!


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Well, unfortunately, the marriage is over. At counseling, on Tuesday, wife showed me e-mails she had received a month BEFORE her affair, with another guy, on line. Some of them were pretty emotional. He told her that he didn't care if she couldn't have kids, and that he loved her the way she is. She responded that her H (ME!!) was "pressuring ", her to have a family and that "she didn't know if we would stay together". Would it be possible for them to meet? She swears that they didn't, but I don't believe a word she says. She showed me the last ones, saying that she would not be talking to him again, as we were re-connecting. I f88king blew up. I'm done with her and all of her lies. So she NOW says that this is everything. She's told me that same thing 3 times before. I called my lawyer and re-started the paperwork, kicked her out and am not going to take her back, again. I would like to thank all of the posters, who have tried to help, but this is not going to get any better, and I finally have made up my mind . It isn't worth the effort and the pain , if the cheater continues to lie and deceive.


Dowjones , I think in your last thread you said everything was getting better & she had true remorse , what happened suddenly ? Anyways I hope things will get better for you .

best of luck


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

hi Dow...

i support your every step


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

This is unfortunate. I followed your story bud and it sounded like the right things were being done by her to mend your problems. But you set your rules from the getgo and she had her chance to get it all out. If you want to wash your hands then by all means go ahead man. There's probably more then what you've gotten still. I don't blame you.

ps....in hindsight, you shoulda gone to Vegas 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

josh1081 said:


> This is unfortunate. I followed your story bud and it sounded like the right things were being done by her to mend your problems. But you set your rules from the getgo and she had her chance to get it all out. If you want to wash your hands then by all means go ahead man. There's probably more then what you've gotten still. I don't blame you.
> 
> ps....in hindsight, you shoulda gone to Vegas
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup: Yes, I should have!!!! I could have had a way better time there, than trying to "reconnect", with a liar. I think I was very fair, maybe too fair. I told her and told her that I wanted the COMPLETE truth, but she never seemed to understand, or didn't want to understand, or didn't care either way. So now she can lie to someone else. Oh, yes, the tears and begging have already started. She called my mom and dad several times and her family and friends have tried to call me, but since I've a new number, THEY CAN'T REACH ME, Her Dad came to my place yesterday, to talk "man to man", but I told him what happened, and he left. BTW, I'll keep everybody posted about the new and improved Dowjones, and BM I definitely won't treat the next Lady badly, because of my STBEXW. I will find a better one, who i CAN trust. Until then, I'll have some fun!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I honestly think “some” women just don’t understand man’s ability to forgive and move on. And I think that’s because these women don’t have that ability to forgive. It’s just not within them It’s like a turtle trying to understand the world of an elephant, or something.

I reckon your wife thought that if she told you everything up front, you would no longer love her and that would be the end of her marriage. So she trickled the truth out. And she let more truth out with the new MC as part of that trickle of truth and it was probably she thought a “safe” place to do so. Looks like she’s used the MCs somewhat in this regard as she hasn’t been “brave” enough to tell you the truth off her own bat. Or whatever her reason was.

They just don’t see it but it is a “massive” deception compounded over and again by more and more lies, denial and blaming. But it’s the way some women handle conflict, it’s dysfunctional and unhealthy. And all of that is on top of the affairs. It’s mind boggling.

We can normally handle the truth of the affair, the original offence and deception. It’s very painful but we can handle it and get through it. But everything else that follows? The lies denial and blaming, who can do that I wonder. Who’d want to do that once we’ve discovered how easily we were deceived and how readily they lied to us and blamed us for their actions.

Bob


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dow, you can now walk away, knowing that you did your part, your best to make it work. She has failed, not you and now she will pay the price.
I feel sorry for the next guy/guys!


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

the guy said:


> Dow, you can now walk away, knowing that you did your part, your best to make it work. She has failed, not you and now she will pay the price.
> I feel sorry for the next guy/guys!


I do to. She is really good and had me fooled for quite a while. But I'll be back to talk to you guys and gals from time to time. Maybe my story will help others? It would be nice if that were true.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

I just don't get it. "She showed you the emails", you didn't find them. She's attempting to be honest with you. Perhaps the therapist's office is a "safe haven" for her and she's affaid of you or your reaction. You sound impulsive and controling (I'm not attacking you, just making an observation). 
When my wife revealed her affair, I exploded and yelled "we're done, get out!" She ran out of the house screaming that she was going to kill herself. I told her to "do it quickly and I hope it's painful". While I didn't mean it, I certainly felt that way at the moment. The next morning she attempted suicide. 60 pills, 14 hours in intensive care, 5 days in psych hospital, 2 months in rehab, 2 months in outpatient, & now 7 months of therapy & meetings. 
I too get the trickle truth. Almost doesn't matter. I've created my own story about what happened and it's much worse than anything she could have done. The truth I get is because I bring things up in therapy and at home when I make it safe for her to talk.
The bottom line is how faithful she will be going forward. She has pledged her complete commitment to our marriage and fidelity going forward. The past is unbelievably painful for me (her most significant affair happened at rehab where she was supposed to work on herself to get better). But I realize that she was possessed by whatever demons were inside her head during those dark months. I genuinely believe that my higher power allowed/directed this to happen as a test and to guarantee our long term future.
Dow, I can relate to you and your story more than most on this site. I would only ask that you search deep within and think to yourself, did I really, truly love this woman before the "revelation"? If so, then stick with it. While she violated your marrital vows, one of them is "till death do us part, in sickness and in heath." Clearly your wife was mentally ill. No rational, HAPPILY married woman [email protected]&*s in the back seat of a car, reveals it to her husband and is happy about what she did! I'm sure if you dig deep, you'll find that the sex was insignifant. It's all about the emotional connection with the other man. Something that you can now provide if you chose to.
I think at a minimum, you should ask the therapist to understand why more is coming out now. What is causing her to trickle out the truth? What will it take to get it all out? Regardless of what she says, will she ever reveal the truth? My therapist says that no matter what my wife tells me, I will never believe her. I suppose there's some truth in that, hense the story I've created in my head so that I can get past this! I'm even thinking that the black guy that was with your wife, came to South Florida and spent time with my wife as my wife has always wanted to be with a black guy and 2 of her 3 revealed infidelities was in the back seat of a car! (sorry)
Also, one of the books I read on infidelity and widely quoted on this site, suggests that 80 percent of people will experience infidelity in their relationship. The most conservative puts the number at 30 percent! Why slaughter the devil you know in exchange for the devil you don't know! Remember, you're hurting now. You need to get to a place where you are not seathing inside. At that point, you'll get more of the truth. Also, you'll probably come to believe that the details don't matter as much as your wife demonstrating unbelievable love, affection, attention, remorse, dedication, commitment, fidelity going forward........


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Workingitout said:


> You sound impulsive and controling (I'm not attacking you, just making an observation)


Because he's not willing to be a doormat?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

I just reread all of Dows posts. Nowhere did I read that his wife was treating him like a "doormat" (unless I missed something). I see a tremendously troubled, remorseful woman, willing to work on saving her marriage. I have come to understand that the trickle truth is just part of the process. Dow wants it all now. She is doling it out little by little. Part of this is her way of protecting herself from the shame and disgust she is feeling. I'm sure her infidelities were all within a few recent months but she went years being faithful. I think there is something that snaps in these woman's heads that causes them to act out. I'm sure that with the right help, Dow & his wife can heal and have a marriage unlike anything they've ever experienced. I'm on that path.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

The fact that he's given her chance after chance to straighten up but she won't stop cheating, yeah that's being treated like a doormat. Why would he want to stay married to a woman that he's sharing with other men? Him ending things isn't controlling or impulsive, he's given her every chance but she obviously doesn't take the marriage serious enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks, Blue Moon, for your support, but I think that Workingitout does have an interesting point, and I want to address it. Workingitout, when I took my marriage vows, I took them very seriously and still do. What I have to decide is not how much work I'm willing to put into re-connecting with my wife, but how much work SHE is willing to put into it. I have told her several times that as a pre-condition for recovery, she MUST tell me everything, not just trickle it out, when at the therapist's. This issue is fundamental to restoring my trust in her and her promises. I don't even need to know the specifics, just that she has told me all of the information, and is holding nothing back. Beside the lies she told before, and besides the actual cheating, three times she has told me that there was nothing more, and three times she has lied. When is enough, enough? What choices do I have now? If I give her another chance, what message am I sending? That I will continue to be a dupe, and believe her crap, forever? Or Man-up and show her undeniable proof that continued lying will only make things far worse, for her. I don't know how you can say, that I'm "controlling", when I've repeatedly forgiven her and taken her back, only to find out more crap that happened? I told her after the last "disclosure", that I wish her well, and hope that she learns from this tragedy, that there is no substitute , in marriage , for the truth. I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO END, BUT I WILL NOT BE MARRIED TO SOMEONE I CANNOT TRUST. That's the bottom line. When this first happened, I decided to believe her and try to make it work, so I asked her for the truth about the affair. Now I'm not sure of anything she has said. She swore to me that this last was the TOTAL truth, but she's done that before , too. I can't and won't try any more


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Well, unfortunately, the marriage is over. At counseling, on Tuesday, wife showed me e-mails she had received a month BEFORE her affair, with another guy, on line. Some of them were pretty emotional. He told her that he didn't care if she couldn't have kids, and that he loved her the way she is. She responded that her H (ME!!) was "pressuring ", her to have a family and that "she didn't know if we would stay together". Would it be possible for them to meet? She swears that they didn't, but I don't believe a word she says. She showed me the last ones, saying that she would not be talking to him again, as we were re-connecting. I f88king blew up. I'm done with her and all of her lies. So she NOW says that this is everything. She's told me that same thing 3 times before. I called my lawyer and re-started the paperwork, kicked her out and am not going to take her back, again. I would like to thank all of the posters, who have tried to help, but this is not going to get any better, and I finally have made up my mind . It isn't worth the effort and the pain , if the cheater continues to lie and deceive.


OMG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

well Dow...

that's a very good explanation and very good decision.
you have the same story with my neighbour. but when his wife told him that she apologized for not telling the total truth of her cheating and she convinced that all the truth was unfolded and begged him to forgive her and to work on the marriage, then my neighbor stated a ridiculous condition to her. "he will get back to their marriage if he could cheat to her whenever he wants but she must be faithful to him". so one side is free to cheat and the other side has to be faithful. i think this is very funny


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Hi Dowjones, you know the true is now your wife does love you deeply and faithfully and you want to plan for the future and let go of the past. She was scared of losing you and making you angry. She's showed you all her email contacts, which means she really wanted to let go of the past. He was not even her affair literally... I know it's hard for you to trust her. Maybe you want to start from separation? Can you give yourself some time before get divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> Hi Dowjones, you know the true is now your wife does love you deeply and faithfully and you want to plan for the future and let go of the past. She was scared of losing you and making you angry. She's showed you all her email contacts, which means she really wanted to let go of the past. He was not even her affair literally... I know it's hard for you to trust her. Maybe you want to start from separation? Can you give yourself some time before get divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MSLonely, how many times am I supposed to forgive her? Would anyone here, take another chance on her? For me to trust her again, she would have to convince me of EVERYTHING, prove EVERYTHING, and not have even 1 secret from me. Even the tiniest mistake would be the end. And what kind of life would that be for me and for her? How can anyone who truly loves and respects their SO continue to lie and deceive, when they KNOW it will mean the end, if he/she finds out? I'm at a loss here, why did she show me the e-mails, at all? If she hadn't sworn repeatedly that she had told me all there was to tell, I wouldn't be so angry.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> MSLonely, how many times am I supposed to forgive her? Would anyone here, take another chance on her? For me to trust her again, she would have to convince me of EVERYTHING, prove EVERYTHING, and not have even 1 secret from me. Even the tiniest mistake would be the end. And what kind of life would that be for me and for her? How can anyone who truly loves and respects their SO continue to lie and deceive, when they KNOW it will mean the end, if he/she finds out? I'm at a loss here, why did she show me the e-mails, at all? If she hadn't sworn repeatedly that she had told me all there was to tell, I wouldn't be so angry.


I understand. It's very confusing why she can't just come All clean in one go. She's very afraid of losing you and she didn't handle it properly. Actually she can just deleted all these emails since it's not an affair at all.It's possible she didn't know that her being honest to show you every small thing in the past has become her fatel mistake. Her intention was not to hurt you but she did and she's absolutely regretful for being careless in taking care of your new grown tiny trust for her...
Sigh. Her intention was not to make you upset but she accidentally did it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’ve two points. First we accept that our wife is very capable of lying to us. Then we accept that our marriage is not authentic. After those two things we wonder about the authenticity, the “realness” of the past, mine was near 40 years, and then we wonder about the authenticity of the future. I couldn’t live in a world with my wife still in it when I made those judgements and conclusions.

I think people who hide the truth in one way or another, deceptions, lies, blaming and denials are not capable of true forgiveness. But they are very capable of bitterness and resentment. Because they are not capable of forgiveness and have a preference for bitterness and resentment they assume others are the same. And that is why they withhold the truth. It’s because they fundamentally believe that they’ll “never ever be forgiven” for what they did wrong.

In some ways this is to do with a clash of core ideals, core philosophies of life. One believes in and is capable of forgiveness, the other doesn’t believe in and is incapable of forgiveness. It is the person who deceives, lies, blames and denies when “discovered” that is incapable of forgiveness.

I like to think I’m capable of forgiving anybody anything. I actually believe there are exceptionally few evil people in the world “out to get me”. If any at all. I know most are just like me and fully capable of making mistakes and hurting.

But to live without honesty in my marriage. That’s not for me. I could have handled and forgiven my wife anything. All she needed to do was tell me the truth. I can handle the truth and forgive. It was the lies, deceptions, denial and blaming I couldn’t handle and stay with her. I will forgive her but it’s taking me a long time this time round.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

There is another third thing. Being cheated on is emotionally wounding and depending on how much we are in love, how much we are committed and how much we’ve helped and supported our spouse in their times of need those emotional wounds can be very deep indeed.

Those emotional wounds need care and time to heal. When yet another lie is uncovered we get yet another emotional wound to deal with. But it’s more than that. The original emotional wounds are opened up again and we’ve got to go through a re healing process of those wounds while dealing with the current one.

I equate this sort of thing to the law courts. The guilty person who admits their guilt and holds nothing back is given a reduced sentence compared to those who deceive, lie, blame others and deny their offence.

Bob


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow, All I'm saying is that for someone to do what your wife did, she must be/was emotionally sick. None of what she did was "rewarding" to her. She got nothing of substantive value from her "indescressions". Did the affair partners buy her jewelry? Wisk her away to fabulous destinations? Make love to her (not just quick, unloving sex in the back seat of a car)? Carry on for months or years? No. These guys provided her with some fleeting emotional support for which she could have gotten from you but she was too sick to figure it out! (the sex, while repulsive to you, was inconsequential to the big picture). She, in her twisted way, perceived this to be the love that she convinced herself was missing from you. 

I'm now dealing with the trickle truth in reverse. My wife forgets that she already told me details and has now convinced herself that these details didn't happen. She has gone into protective mode. Her disgust with her behavior and the hurt she has caused me, has caused her to "forget" some of the details.

Bottom line is that your wife is being forthcoming with details of her own volition. You are not discovering the lies. While this may not be comfortable for you, causing you to relive the pain and start the healing all over again, this may be the best she is emotionally capable of doing.

You asked if "anyone here would take another chance with her". I would! I would ask myself if she was a good wife before her dark few months? I would ask myself that if I was at my best, giving her the attention she needed, really creating intimacy, writing her a love letter every week, really expressing how much I love her, giving her a passionate kiss every day, complimenting her on her looks rather than complaining about how much money she spent to look good, showing her a good time on date nite, make love to her and look into her eyes and say I love you during the act......would she ever cheat on me again? I suspect the answer would be a resounding NO! I would also suspect that while you may not have the character defect that would ever allow you to cheat, if you lived without the love you needed, you would think about cheating, maybe just not act on it.

Expecting a cheater to tell you the truth, or even believing what you hear, is a clear contradition. The only truth that you should expect is "I cheated on you!" Everything else can't be trusted. 

Can you live with this? Ever since my "devistation", I've been super conscious of how often people around me lie to their spouses. Just this morning, my mother discussed something with me and said "I don't want your father to know". So I suspect there is alot of lying going on. The best you can hope for is to create the perfect marriage of the future, using the experiences of the past to fix what wasn't working.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Her emails/connections with that guy, in my opinion, were NOT cheating. When she discovered the ruthless truth that she can't get pregnant so easily, it's very hard for her to take. Yes, she turned to someone else for support. She was scared to turn to you as she wasn't sure that you would support her or you divorce her. In short, when depression comes, it's very hard to think properly. If I were her, I would find someone to vent when I suffer from depression and I was not able to tell anyone I know. What I'm sure is, it was far from cheating, I must tell you because people who never suffers from depression can't relate. She was all alone, depressed and panic. I knew how terrible it is. I'd been suffering from depression at night every now and then, due to my hyper thyroid. 
Depression is connected to anxiety, which always made me feel myself hopeless and useless. There were couple of times I had thought about some ways to suicide but I hadn't tell my husband about my depression for many years. When I was depressed, I can't think about I want to tell my husband but to isolated myself. My husband was sleeping and would hate to be disturbed. I couldn't sleep but non stop crying for many nights. To deal with it, I went online just anyhow found someone to chat and vent when my husband was asleep. If you called that lying, cheating, and dishonest deeds, I won't defense myself; however, divorce would be an over-rated punishment for me or for anyone who suffers from illness and depression.
Recently, I finally told my husband about my depression. He was shocked, but he thought I was joking about killing myself... Not until he saw I cry like hell did he realise it a serious illness. He brought me to the doctor. I was told to take long term medication and my husband was told to pay close attention to me seriously. My husband never complained or asked me which men I contacted. He knew he was not there for me when I needed him the most. Pls don't take her honesty and illness to go against her. Maybe she told you much later, but it's not cheating. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Dowjone, your wife is a wonderful woman. Pls think about it carefully, does she really deserve a divorce from you as her punishment after you both worked very hard to save the marriage? If you really can't trust her, maybe you want give her a chance starting from separation instead of divorce? If she's very healthy without any depression and anxiety, I won't have sympathy for her. She's not totally recovered from her illness, divorce would be too hard for her to take, she might lose hopes in life, already thinking about how to give up her love and life for you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Thank you all for your kind words, but I'm not sure if words can help. She has shown me a side of her that I never knew existed. Before this happened, I would have killed anyone who would suggest that she was a cheater. Now I realize that I'm married to somebody who has repeatedly lied, and has had sex twice with another man. Just because she has volunteered this info, in no way excuses these actions, and cannot turn back time. I loved my wife more than anything in the world, and even though I sometimes worked too much and was away from her, I always tried to do what I could to show her my love. Apparently It wasn't enough. I've told her that she has until I sign the final divorce papers, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I have ALL of the truth, every word , every gesture, every conversation she has had with any man, at any time, then I MIGHT reconsider. The funny thing is that I really don't need to know the specifics, all I ever wanted was to know all of the contacts and whether or not she had any emotional feelings for these men. By her continued evasion, I have to make sure of her feelings and trustworthiness, before forgiveness can happen. Having said that , her volunteering this information, does show that she loves me at some level, at least I hope so.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

hi dow ... 

so what is the update on your condition


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

lobokies said:


> hi dow ...
> 
> so what is the update on your condition


Pretty down in the dumps, Lobo. Wife offered to take polygraph, today but those things aren't infallible, so what's the point?


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

I told you many post before that "The whole truth will no come out at once." Your wife is your love. She messed up terribly. She is trying. The truth of affairs is not a straight and clean line. It is filled with partial truths and vague attempts to save dignity. Look at the whole, not the peaces of your marriage. People can make horrible decisions but that doesn't always make they horrible persons. My wife screwed up. She was confused. But she still had some value. She needed help. I showed mercy. We all need mercy. We all need mercy.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Pretty down in the dumps, Lobo. Wife offered to take polygraph, today but those things aren't infallible, so what's the point?


everything depends on you now Dow. as said by RWB that the truth doesnt come at once, it is true.

how do u feel to her, hate, love or maybe confused. Then you should decide what will be the future of both of you. the ball is yours now. please be firm in making decision and do not regret in the future. 

thanks for giving the update.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Her therapist called me Saturday and asked if I would continue to come to her sessions. She (therapist) said that my wife is a basket-case, because she (wife) didn't say anything wrong in the E-mails, ( which is true) that all of the talk about love was on the man's side, and she really didn't think that the e-mails were part of the affair situation. I am all over the place. One minute I want to try to forgive her and make it work, the next minute I want her out of my life. If I give her another chance, will she lose respect for me? One thing is sure, She can't continue to "trickle truth ", me and expect it to work. I'm through being understanding about that issue and clearly , in front of her parents, told her that she needs to tell me all of her contacts with other men, without exception. So there is no excuse for any more lies. Can ANYONE tell me why she would do this? After all of the deceit, she continues to try to evade. She knows that if she gives me the total truth, I will give her forgiveness for the affair, I've said as much. If we are ever to make our marriage work, we have to have a firm foundation of honesty, just like when we were first married.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Her therapist called me Saturday and asked if I would continue to come to her sessions. She (therapist) said that my wife is a basket-case, because she (wife) didn't say anything wrong in the E-mails, ( which is true) that all of the talk about love was on the man's side, and she really didn't think that the e-mails were part of the affair situation. I am all over the place. One minute I want to try to forgive her and make it work, the next minute I want her out of my life. If I give her another chance, will she lose respect for me? One thing is sure, She can't continue to "trickle truth ", me and expect it to work. I'm through being understanding about that issue and clearly , in front of her parents, told her that she needs to tell me all of her contacts with other men, without exception. So there is no excuse for any more lies. Can ANYONE tell me why she would do this? After all of the deceit, she continues to try to evade. She knows that if she gives me the total truth, I will give her forgiveness for the affair, I've said as much. If we are ever to make our marriage work, we have to have a firm foundation of honesty, just like when we were first married.


Some people just don’t fundamentally believe in forgiveness. They just don’t believe in it but they do believe in being unforgiving. Whereas one person’s core value and belief is forgiveness, another person’s core value and belief is exactly the opposite, being unforgiving. It’s an “enduring trait”. Traits in the main more or less make up who we are, our character. Whereas for example attitudes can change with the wind.

If your wife doesn’t believe in forgiving then, for example if you had an affair she would “Never ever forgive you for the affair” and remain forever bitter and resentful.

She more than likely believes that if you knew the whole truth you would never ever forgive her. It’s a psychological projection. A lot of people live through their eyes of psychological projection. In fact it’s quite difficult not to do so.

People who never ever forgive live a life quite full of bitterness and resentment. Reckon your wife may well think you will forever be bitter and resentful to her because of her affair. Simply because that’s how she would feel about you if the tables were turned.

Maybe ask your wife if you had done the same things to her, would she be able to forgive you.

Bob


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

It took my wife 8 years of actively cheating and another 8 years of lying and deceiving before she finally told me a kind of complete truth.

The price is too high to go that long.

Be glad the frequency of her cheating and the time frame is far less than what I've experienced.

Not trivializing your nightmare, just lending perspective.

Life is never the same once your illusions of your marriage are burst.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I am willing to bet everything in my bank account that there is a bomb waiting to be dropped that you have no idea about. Your wife's idea of honest right now isn't the Webster's definition. It's a really messy situation which is further compounded by the fact that trust has been broken a few times in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> I am willing to bet everything in my bank account that there is a bomb waiting to be dropped that you have no idea about. Your wife's idea of honest right now isn't the Webster's definition. It's a really messy situation which is further compounded by the fact that trust has been broken a few times in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know Blue, sometimes I feel the same way, but when I look back on it, there really hasn't been enough time for her to have had any other affairs, unless there was a ONS somewhere.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow, I've posted to your thread several times before. I relate so much to your situation. Sorry for the log posts but I know there's hope for you.

I've been with my wife for 24 years, married for 16 years next month. She was faithful for all of those years up until last February. She used to despise cheaters. 

Her life became unmanageable because of abuse at work, kids that were difficult and me not being the best that I can be based on stresses at work, etc. To cope, she would drink a few glasses of wine, smoke a little pot, and was taking an assortment of prescribed pills. This all aggravated her depression to a new low, causing her to cheat (11 month emotional affair, culminating with a physical encounter in the back seat of a car).

She is now clean, tremendously remoresful, realizes how she jeopardized our marriage, our family and her quality of life. The suicide attempt when I confronted her and she revealed her affair and 2.5 months in rehab and financial drain for her care was also a consideration for her. She now works to reestablish trust and knows that our marriage will be forever changed. She has pledged to never even look at another man inappropriately again. I check her phone log (although she had a secret prepaid phone for her affair), I monitor where she is at all times of the day, I talk with her friends and family more often and have begged them to tell me if I need to be concerned about any of her behavior (they all knew about the affair).

We are going to weekly councelling together. Her and I go separately to a different councellor as well. All of the therapists communicate with each other to facilitate the processes efficiently.

My wife and I spend allot of time communicating (not just about the affair, but also the good in our relationship and other stressors in our lives. She understands that when questions come up, we will set aside time for me to ask and for her to answer. We have date nite on the weekends and I try to plan something exciting. I am "pretending" that I've just met her and we are dating. We sometimes take a bubble bath or just sit and talk without the TV on (something we rarely did).

While I can't forget about what she has done and our marriage will never be the same, I know that she is essentially a good person that had a bad time and made a really bad decission. I've read alot about how this stuff happens and while I could never allow myself to be that vulnerable, women are a different "creature".

Our marriage has now improved (affair aside) to a level where it never was before. We make love more often, write each other text messages throughout the day (filled with sexy chat like we're having an affair with eachother) and we talk about things we've never shared with each other, and have created a new intimacy. 

Based on a recommendation from a doctor, I am taking Sam-E and high doses of fish oil. It has wiped out my anxiety when I think about what she did. I still think about it but I don't get that sick feeling.

There is hope for you. Please keep in mind that there are alot of people who's wifes cheat for years and the husbands don't ever find out (or vice verse). They have loving marriages. You have the benefit of a wife who is willing to reveal (albeit a bit at a time).

Know that emailing a man who showers her with attention (with none of the responsiblity that you have, like providing for your household, stress, etc) and also having that repulsive relationship with her ex-coworker produces huge amounts of Dopamine, Oxytocin and other chemicals that cause people to do strange things. The high has been equated to that of heroine. Combine that with her "failures" and a bit of depression and you get an affair.

I would love to see you get to where I am today. It starts with knowing with some certainty that you will never have to revist infidelity again. If you feel comfortable with that, then see the therapist with her. Put aside the threat of divorce. Don't bring it up. Infact let her know that you've suspended any legal action and want to work on the marriage. You can always change your mind, but don't use this threat as a way to punish her or control her. It is counter-productive to healing. Make a list of questions. Re-read the list and be sure you want each of the details. It's easier to ask then to expect her to tell. It's amazing how women will forget certain details, almost as a way to protect themselves and to "erase" the shame, guilt and embarrasement of what they did. I would recommend not asking certain questions like make of the car as you may get triggered every time you see that car on the road (unfortunately for me, the Toyota Prius is a very popular car!).

Give her an opportunity to earn back the trust and show you that she can be the best wife possible. Improve yourself. Pretend that you are starting fresh. See if this "new" marriage is something that you would want to keep. Then decide what to do. Please keep us posted.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Her therapist called me Saturday and asked if I would continue to come to her sessions. She (therapist) said that my wife is a basket-case, because she (wife) didn't say anything wrong in the E-mails, ( which is true) that all of the talk about love was on the man's side, and she really didn't think that the e-mails were part of the affair situation. I am all over the place. One minute I want to try to forgive her and make it work, the next minute I want her out of my life. If I give her another chance, will she lose respect for me? One thing is sure, She can't continue to "trickle truth ", me and expect it to work. I'm through being understanding about that issue and clearly , in front of her parents, told her that she needs to tell me all of her contacts with other men, without exception. So there is no excuse for any more lies. Can ANYONE tell me why she would do this? After all of the deceit, she continues to try to evade. She knows that if she gives me the total truth, I will give her forgiveness for the affair, I've said as much. If we are ever to make our marriage work, we have to have a firm foundation of honesty, just like when we were first married.


I think you're going on the right path away from misunderstandings in those email and resentments... don't you feel peace love and joy to see her loving eyes? Eyes can't lie. I'm sure she's a honest good woman now and forever will. I believe her depression had made her go astray for affair, and I also believe she's still suffering from depression so pls be there for her, holding her hands through the illness because she deserves your love, because you mean the whole world to her, because you're her only love and you're her life.  she can't lie about the truth that she loves you more than anything in the world. You've to believe that firmly. What do you think? Your wife is so evil that she's going to place a bomb and kill her marriage again?


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

I know she loves me, and I don't think she would cheat again, but dammit why does she still refuse to be absolutely honest about what happened? Doesn't she realize that if she would tell me EVERYTHING, then we could put it behind us and work towards the future.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow, I say exactly what you are saying every single day. I've said it to her in councelling, I've said it to her at home. It's just a psychological thing that I suppose we'll never understand. I think they compartmentalize the truth to protect themselves and to bury the guilt & shame. It's like a post traumatic stress disorder thing. PTSD is a response by normal people to an abnormal situation. I copied this from a webpage on the subject:
The traumatic events that lead to post-traumatic stress disorder are usually so overwhelming and frightening that they would upset anyone. When your sense of safety and trust are shattered, it’s normal to feel crazy, disconnected, or numb – and most people do. The only difference between people who go on to develop PTSD and those who don’t is how they cope with the trauma.

After a traumatic experience, the mind and the body are in shock. But as you make sense of what happened and process your emotions, you come out of it. With post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), however, you remain in psychological shock. Your memory of what happened and your feelings about it are disconnected. In order to move on, it’s important to face and feel your memories and emotions.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> I know she loves me, and I don't think she would cheat again, but dammit why does she still refuse to be absolutely honest about what happened? Doesn't she realize that if she would tell me EVERYTHING, then we could put it behind us and work towards the future.


At this point, would you ever believe you had the whole truth? I had to make the very painful decision to move forward, without knowing any more than I do now, with the complete understanding that I would not put up with the behavior again, and next time...I walk. I did NOT feel completely comfortable with my choice, and I still have nagging doubts, but I have a path that I am making, together with my husband, going forward, not back. That is not to say all is forgotten(never) and forgiven(perhaps someday), but WE are working on it.

Your wife cheated...whether it was 2 times or 10. You need to decide if you can go forward, and stop putting your marriage in reverse. If you can't...you can't...but you need to make a decision, so you can actively work on whatever you decide.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Well said workin'. I too needed to know every detail & got the trickle truth. My wife can't even remember what she's told me from one day to the next. Why bother? Accept and move forward or don't. I think if his wife is remorseful and can remain faithful moving forward, then they should move forward as a couple.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Also, DJ, you both need to realize that the trust has been broken, and steps need to be taken to repair it. You(and she) need to realize that you won't trust her just because you decide to work things out, but because she has shown you that she can be trusted. That will take time and patience, as well as FULL transparency, from now, on. You will still have suspicions, but she will need to help you work it out. AND...you will need to let her help you. I know it is very painful, but the pain will ease, if you are both actively working together.

My hubby no longer participates in the activities that he used as an excuse to be gone. He gives me full info on EVERY business meeting, as far as where, when, etc. He calls on his way there, and on his way home. I have no guarantees, but for the sanity of my marriage, I chose to believe that he does not want to leave our marriage, and he will not let it happen again. Our therapist has asked him to contact her, ANYTIME, if he feels the desire to go to those places again...even if he is on his way there...or just thinks about it.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

workin' said:


> Also, DJ, you both need to realize that the trust has been broken, and steps need to be taken to repair it. You(and she) need to realize that you won't trust her just because you decide to work things out, but because she has shown you that she can be trusted. That will take time and patience, as well as FULL transparency, from now, on. You will still have suspicions, but she will need to help you work it out. AND...you will need to let her help you. I know it is very painful, but the pain will ease, if you are both actively working together.
> 
> My hubby no longer participates in the activities that he used as an excuse to be gone. He gives me full info on EVERY business meeting, as far as where, when, etc. He calls on his way there, and on his way home. I have no guarantees, but for the sanity of my marriage, I chose to believe that he does not want to leave our marriage, and he will not let it happen again. Our therapist has asked him to contact her, ANYTIME, if he feels the desire to go to those places again...even if he is on his way there...or just thinks about it.


This is the dilema I'm facing, Workin. If you've read my other posts, she has done almost everything . She confessed, to me, to her parents and mine, to her boss, lost her job and I know has had no contact with the co-worker, or any inappropriate contact with anyone. But I gave her 3 chances to give me ALL the info and she still trickle truths. When is enough, enough? She has sworn to be completely transparent and that she has finally told me all, but she said this before. The therapist said Tuesday that she (therapist) believes that there is nothing more to tell, but how can I be sure? If I take her back will she lose respect for me? She has said that she willingly will spend the rest of her life proving her self, if need be. I finally told her she could come home and stay in the spare bedroom, but that this is the LAST CHANCE, and she must be totally honest, and we will see, if she has finally told me all.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

You ...will...never...be...sure. None of us BSs(awful acronym) will ever be sure again. That is the pity...the damage was done. NOW...you need to decide if you can live with that, and work on salvaging your marriage. You can either go forward, or stay behind. If you choose to stay behind, chances are, your marriage will not survive. AS hard as it is-AND I KNOW-you need to either go forward, or not. YOU need to decide if enough is enough. 

I do not see it as being weak. To the contrary, it may well be the hardest thing you will ever do. You can rebuild the strengths-together. I cannot say that, someday, you will completely trust her again-I am not at that point. But, you can acknowledge your feelings, validate them, and work to get past them.

IMO...the question should be: "Can I go forward and try to save my marriage...not knowing one single more detail of my wife's unfaithfulness?"


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

I know you feel terrible over this, and most of us couldn't imagine worse. And really, no matter which course you take (stay or leave), nobody could blame you. Thing is, there is a very real part of her that wants to be seen like the wonderful woman she felt in the early days of marriage. Is it possible that you get the trickle truth not because she is somewhat selfishly hiding, or even avoiding, but because she just can't stand to hurt you more?

In my last marriage couseling session, my counselor could see that my wife was avoiding, defensive. Finally, the counselor told her that she has real problems, and will end up alone if she doesn't begin to take ownership. My wife was broken. She said she knows that she has problems, but wants more than anything for me to be able to look at her again like she didn't. Maybe the difference in our situations is that my wife has a disease with a name (borderline personality disorder). 

In your situation, she deserves for you to leave. All I'm trying to suggest is that there will always be that nagging doubt that more exists, but she's apparently desperate to begin the phase that moves her towards redemption, not more hurt for you.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Kakris, I hope you read the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me". Amazing, laypersons book that explains BPD. My wife has "tendencies", not full blown BPD but it certainly explained what I was dealing with for the past 24 years! I thought I was going crazy!


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

These last few posts have bothered me so much, that I called the therapist and asked her opinions on them. The therapist told me straight out, that I was wrong about my wife's reluctance to tell me more. She (therapist) said that my wife loves me more than anything and would literally do anything to reconcile, but that she is having a very hard time with the remorse and guilt and self-image issues. She said that my wife's "trickle truth", isn't disrespect or lack of love for me, it is that she (wife)hates to be reminded of her perceived failures as a woman and wife. The therapist says that the infertility issue is what has caused most of this. Therapist also said that in her opinion, I should be trying to be positive and help her feel better about herself, and above all to make sure she knows I love and desire her again.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Lie Detector test!!!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Dowjones said:


> These last few posts have bothered me so much, that I called the therapist and asked her opinions on them. The therapist told me straight out, that I was wrong about my wife's reluctance to tell me more. She (therapist) said that my wife loves me more than anything and would literally do anything to reconcile, but that she is having a very hard time with the remorse and guilt and self-image issues. She said that my wife's "trickle truth", isn't disrespect or lack of love for me, it is that she (wife)hates to be reminded of her perceived failures as a woman and wife. The therapist says that the infertility issue is what has caused most of this. Therapist also said that in her opinion, I should be trying to be positive and help her feel better about herself, and above all to make sure she knows I love and desire her again.


Unless the therapist has heard those very words from your wife, it is still spin and an advocacy by your therapist, not for the marriage, but for your wife. Not you.

Suggest that your wife cough up this full truth you seek--in the therapist's office. 

"Your" therapist is basically telling you to suck it up and accept whatever it is that is unstated because your wife is too weak to face the fallout.

Must be pretty lousy.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> These last few posts have bothered me so much, that I called the therapist and asked her opinions on them. The therapist told me straight out, that I was wrong about my wife's reluctance to tell me more. She (therapist) said that my wife loves me more than anything and would literally do anything to reconcile, but that she is having a very hard time with the remorse and guilt and self-image issues. She said that my wife's "trickle truth", isn't disrespect or lack of love for me, it is that she (wife)hates to be reminded of her perceived failures as a woman and wife. The therapist says that the infertility issue is what has caused most of this. Therapist also said that in her opinion, I should be trying to be positive and help her feel better about herself, and above all to make sure she knows I love and desire her again.


It's hard for others outside the face-to-face realm like us to really see what is happening in your situation, and maybe I'm different that some, but sometimes the motivation makes all the difference in how I respond. Some see this situation and see a sociopath who uses you. Others think that maybe you are wounded by her actions, but unable to pull the trigger because you feel that she really loves you and wishes she could just overcome this fault and be the wife she wants to be. If you think this is the case, then if you choose divorce, perhaps you'll have the ability to just end it clean, and actually help her transition to a new life in a supportive way. Or, you can focus on healing together as a couple while still setting your own private 'watch phase'. Maybe a decision to focus on healing, but about every month take a day alone to ask yourself how its really going. 

Either way, I hope these posts help you think your way through it.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow, You can always divorce if you've tried everything first. Every book and therapist I've been to say that an affair can be the biggest gift or the worst flop for a marriage. Jump head in and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then you can hold your head up high and say you gave it your best (especially if you end it and meet someone else. You can say you did everything. The new person won't wonder if you won't stand by your partner in hard times). 

You have little to lose by saving your marriage. You will improve your communication, be much closer and have a loyal wife that will eat the corn out of your sh*t. 

After 24 years, I didn't know it could be this good! I wish she didn't need to have an affair to bring about this change, but that's the cards my higher power dealt us! Either way, I'm grateful for the opportunity (even if I got the trickle truth which I believe I finally got it all out). Quite honestly and in hindsight, I don't think I would have been able to handle the later part of the trickle truth early on. I too needed to know everything. Had I heard everything earlier, I probably would have ended it. I needed to get some healing done before the second revelation. It's unfortunate because it opens the wound all over again and I start my healing process once again, but we are finally there and doing well! You can too. Take the plunge and see what happens.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

do not believe to the therapist words ..... just make your own decision and no influence from her. dow, since your first post on this thread. it seems like you are not going to leave her completely ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> These last few posts have bothered me so much, that I called the therapist and asked her opinions on them. The therapist told me straight out, that I was wrong about my wife's reluctance to tell me more. She (therapist) said that my wife loves me more than anything and would literally do anything to reconcile, but that she is having a very hard time with the remorse and guilt and self-image issues. She said that my wife's "trickle truth", isn't disrespect or lack of love for me, it is that she (wife)hates to be reminded of her perceived failures as a woman and wife. The therapist says that the infertility issue is what has caused most of this. Therapist also said that in her opinion, I should be trying to be positive and help her feel better about herself, and above all to make sure she knows I love and desire her again.


Dow how about creating a 6 month plan? Just be together for 6 months and live your lives “normally” as though nothing had happened. Six months in the scheme of a lifetime is not long at all. Kind of hit the reset switch on your relationship with your wife.

But to prevent yourself being hurt yet again build yourself some boundaries, see http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.

Boundaries are there to protect ourselves. Often we are way too connected to our wife and because of that connection they get right inside of us and cause us a great deal of pain. Boundaries are like an invisible armour that let things that we like into us and keep things we don’t like out. For example. If your wife reveals something else and you don’t like it just don’t let it inside of you. Just say to yourself “I’m not going to go there with that one. I will ignore it and carry on with my six month plan”. It takes some practice but it does work.

At the end of the six months you’ll have a much better picture and will be able to decide what to do, keep on going with another six month plan, rededicate yourselves to each other or end your marriage.

If you are “in love” with your wife then that is a massive thing. Personally I believe, although told otherwise, that there are very few people “meant for us” in the world and being “in love” is a blessing and something to truly treasure. With “that being in love” comes a lot of joy and happiness, but it can also bring us a great deal of pain. The more in love we are, the more joy, happiness and pain there is.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dow, this thought helped me greatly with my wife. “It Is Not Personal”.

What do I mean? Your wife would have done the same things, behaved in the same ways to any man she was married to. It has nothing to do with you. Nothing at all to do with you. You just happen to be the man she is married to. I know it sucks.

So if it’s not personal, why does it hurt so much? It hurts because our wife’s behaviour is disloyal. It hurts because we have been lied to and blamed for their actions. It hurts because they have withheld the truth and it hurts because they have denied the truth.

But they would have done these things with any man they were married to.

With the “It’s not personal” thought and personal boundaries we separate our “self” from our wife, keep the emotional pain to a minimum and see them as an individual person very much more clearly. When we’ve truly come to understand them that’s when we can take the decision to stay or leave.

Bob


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

AFEH: Excellent advise & wisdom!


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

The therapist has also said that she is NOT an advocate for my wife, but an advocate for our marriage. She has told me about some of my wife's issues and has given me some pretty blunt information about my wife's personality and incidently my OWN failings and issues as well. We have discussed the Polygraph test idea, and surprisingly my wife is all for it. The therapist says it will have little value except for maybe my own peace of mind. I'm not sure and would have to know a lot more about them.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Dow how about creating a 6 month plan? Just be together for 6 months and live your lives “normally” as though nothing had happened. Six months in the scheme of a lifetime is not long at all. Kind of hit the reset switch on your relationship with your wife.
> 
> But to prevent yourself being hurt yet again build yourself some boundaries, see http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.
> 
> ...


This is good advice, Bob, and something I've been thinking about, but only in 3 month increments. My lawyer says that there's no hurry and he will proceed as I direct him. I think that maybe I will give it a shot.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> This is good advice, Bob, and something I've been thinking about, but only in 3 month increments. My lawyer says that there's no hurry and he will proceed as I direct him. I think that maybe I will give it a shot.


Lawyers only ever come into my equation when I've made my judgements. Forget the lawyer. This is not about legalities. It is about love. I reckon you're a million miles away from where a lawyer can help you Dow.

Bob


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

LOL, Your probably right, Bob. The spare bedroom idea isn't working all that well. She came into the living room, nude and I caved like a coalminer. I KNOW I shouldn't have done it, and I kicked myself in the ass later, but for a couple of hours we were on the same page, so to speak.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Dowjones, I have been following your story since the beginning and I can tell you from experience that divorce is one very ugly experience. Two days ago was a month since my divorce became final. A divorce where the WS filed and now he is actually being nice to me and behaves like nothing has happened(except we are not together). After a death of someone close, divorce must be the second worst thing that can happen to anyone.

There are many of us BS on this forum who can only wish they heard even a little trickle of the truth so what your wife has done is huge more like a waterfall of information. 

Take about 6 months and try to use what has been given to you and what you are giving back to her. You can always get a divorce if things don't really work out(I highly doubt that things won't work out between you and your wife)


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Dowjones said:


> LOL, Your probably right, Bob. The spare bedroom idea isn't working all that well. She came into the living room, nude and I caved like a coalminer. I KNOW I shouldn't have done it, and I kicked myself in the ass later, but for a couple of hours we were on the same page, so to speak.




The love and attraction is still there, so I'm not seeing the negative side of this one.

I totally understand your frustration with the trickle truth...but based on what you've said here, that she really wants to save your marriage, I am sure she was in total fear of revealing everything to you, that it would be too much & you would walk.

I know it is hard when you are still struggling with the reality of the affair and the first thing in rebuilding trust is to demand complete honesty so when that doesn't happen, you feel as if you are a doormat if you stay. But really, you are only a doormat if you shove it under the rug rather than deal with the issues head on. You are definitely dealing with this head on...and your wife is petrified that you will leave.

There is fear and uncertainty on both sides right now, so I like Bob's idea to give it 6 months...see if you can get to the point where you are done talking through the past and begin moving forward with your marriage.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Dowjones said:


> LOL, Your probably right, Bob. The spare bedroom idea isn't working all that well. She came into the living room, nude and I caved like a coalminer. I KNOW I shouldn't have done it, and I kicked myself in the ass later, but for a couple of hours we were on the same page, so to speak.


Don't sweat it. Just know you may be under a calculating manipulation attempt using sex.

Bet it is a confusing situation--for you. Not for her.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Dow, Just checking in to see how things are w/ you and the Mrs. I think about you and pray for you every day! 

Yesterday, my marriage therapist said that she would bet money on the fact that we would never divorce. That we've been through so much with her infidelity and have grown as a couple so much that she can't see us ever splitting. That's after the trickle truth, a bit of lying by omission, etc. I suppose that's all anyone ever really wants. (D-Day #1 Feb 23, 2010)


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Working, things are going so-so. We have good and bad days. Therapist was very positive on Tuesday, and said that in her opinion, we are making excellent progress. Wife is absolutely jumping through hoops to be sure that I know where she is at all times ( I don't need this, but she insists). During the session, my wife said that her greatest fear is that I will "throw her away", and find someone new. She repeated her vow to be the best and most honest wife and mother on earth, and that proving herself to me is her main goal. Sounds good, but will she follow through? Time will tell. I've changed my schedule, so that I can spend much more time with her, and she is THRILLED!! It will mean a loss of money, but I will still make enough to support us.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

RWB, this is one of my fears. The therapist has said repeatedly that people with high self-esteem, rarely have affairs, and that her (wife's) low self-image, is one of the reasons she sought validation outside of the marriage. One of best things you can do, to reconcile, is to build up her sense of self worth. Give praise and reward good behavior and honesty.


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## LilBit35 (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow I found out in July and my WH has also done the tt and I was and some days I still am at the point were I cant take it but I wake up the next day and still want to work on the marriage. We did end up living seperate and we still are at this point but it has helped us I think in knowing that we are working on R while trying to discover each other again. I thaught at first he would look for somoeone else but he hasnt as far as I can tell....We have date nights and we see a MC and we are talking more now then we have for the past 4 years so I think we are headed in the right direction...I hope we are but if not at least I knwo we did everything we could to save the marriage. I have learned that I love him everyday but I dont like him everyday. LOL 
I think the WS thinks that is they tell us everything at once its a deal breaker but what they dont realize is the A should have been the deal breaker and were still here...We all know what happens in a A so they can let our imagination run wild or they can tell us how it really went and help us move on! I wish you luck and I was happy that you didnt go and file the D papers earlier in your posts!


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks, LilBit, for your kind post. Yes there are some days when I just do not want to see her, and I know that I've said some very hurtful things to her, but it IS getting better.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Dow, When my wife revealed her affair (Feb 23, 2010), I yelled that we were over. That I was filing for divorce. She went running out of the house threatening suicide. I told her that "I hope it was painful and don't do it here" (meaning the house). I called her a **** and a bunch of other "not nice" things. The next day she attempted suicide. I feel somewhat bad but wouldn't take back what I said. 

Affairs are just wrong and the cheater is a piece of [email protected] for their behavior and the pain they caused by their thoughtless behavior! 

I've told my wife that if she was feeling insecure or needed validation or had a low self esteem, she should eat icecream or ask a girlfriend for validation! No need to put her marriage, family and life at risk.

I know how you feel about those days. My sister-in-law gave me good advise this morning. She said "try to stay in the present as much as humanly possible. That's where you'll find true happiness." Boy is that the truth. Sounds like your wife is committed going forward. Be thankful for that. Most people remain in blah blah marriages (albeit faithful). You'll have the opportunity to have a really connected marriage as a result (still feel as though we could have accomlished this some other way w/out the cheating).


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## LilBit35 (Sep 27, 2010)

Your Welcome Dow-I know how it is and its a sad place to be but were here and we either stay here or move on....with or without our WS! I know I have said some pretty nasty things to my H and maybe I shouldnt have but I did and the bad thing about that is that we cant take those words back...they sting and thats what we mean to do when we say them and then we wish we could inhale and they would go away....well I guess we just need to learn how to fight kinder....mean what we say and say what we mean....I know you were really mad when you did you first post and I get it but I can tell even though you may not feel like it all the time your trying...your post are kinder and I can tell that there is still hope...I have learned from this forum that "it isnt over til its over" and I think that every time I hate him and then I try to remember one good thing that made me love him and it always puts a smile on my face....yes we make mistakes and from what I read we will until we figure this out but we are human...I try really hard not to live in the past all the time and try to see one good thing that could come out of this in the future! The next time your pissed just try and remember one good thing that made you fall in love and see if that puts a smile on your face for just a min...cause thats how long the relief lasts right now but its one more smile than yesterday!


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