# waiting on my wife to make the move



## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I’ve posted a couple other threads before outlining some of the deeper marital issues I’ve had with my wife. We’ve been OK lately I suppose as far as getting along. But the lack of intimacy and dead bedroom persist.

We last “had a session” sometime in February and only because I basically asked if we could at the time. But I always feel like an idiot for caving in and begging like some fool. 

I’m to the point now where I’m waiting her out to see if she will bring it up or
make a move. Here we are almost to June and nothing. She very briefly brought it up several weeks ago as we were falling asleep. “_Maybe we can make love this weekend”. _I said “_Sure, that’d be nice” _fully well knowing that this was probably not going to actually happen and it didn’t.

I still have a pretty good sex drive and desire for it. But it’s amazing to me that she can go this long and it apparently rarely crosses her mind and doesn’t seem to be a need she has. Wouldn’t have married her had I known we’d end up this way. 

I might be waiting till judgment day at this point. Lol


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’ve posted a couple other threads before outlining some of the deeper marital issues I’ve had with my wife. We’ve been OK lately I suppose as far as getting along. But the lack of intimacy and dead bedroom persist.
> 
> We last “had a session” sometime in February and only because I basically asked if we could at the time. But I always feel like an idiot for caving in and begging like some fool.
> 
> ...


So how many ships in bottles have you built?


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Never ask, and certainly don't beg. Do you ever just try to make some moves? How does she react to that? 

Next time she tosses out a line about the weekend, tell her it's a date and ask what day and what time.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

From one of your threads, you give off the impression of being nonchalant and not really caring what happens either way. You mentioned that you might have to sell your toys, and get your own place, but you don't want to leave your son.

You might find my words as harsh and that is ok. But if I can pick up the vibe that you really don't seem to care then she can as well. I am sure that she has made mistakes and isn't free of guilt. But you two have a very young child and she is probably not feeling very secure knowing the marriage is on the rocks. This is not a good feeling for a lady. Her taking the Zoloft is a sign that she knows she has an issue and is trying to resolve it. But it darn sure doesn't help that you are upset about her medication and only care about oral sex and French kissing from her. You should be acting as her rock and encouraging her to talk with you and seek whatever help and treatment she may need.

I encourage you to step up and be the man she wants before it's too late. Talk to her, open up, encourage her to get the help she needs and you two seek marriage counseling. Put away your pride and be the first one to make a move. When you are home, ask her what she needs and if anything is bothering her. Take her on date nights and remind her of why she decided to choose you. Show her that love, openness, and gain her trust. Once you do that, the rest will come.

I once had your attitude and just about lost the best thing that ever happened to me. A really good marriage counselor in a professional way told me that I was an immature idiot.... You keep up your attitude and she will move on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like not much has changed from a year ago. She played you to get what she wanted and now that she has she sees no reason why she needs to continue. It’s not uncommon, unfortunately.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

If divorce isnt' an option, the 180 is always an option.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Women’s desire tends to be responsive. That means it responds to you initiating and leading her through a sexual experience. Yes, in a healthy relationship women sometimes initiate as well, but that’s clearly not your situation so let’s respect reality and do the things that have the highest likelihood of success right now.

1. You have a dead bedroom. You can complain about your wife all you want, but at the end of the day it comes down to YOU.
You are responsible for the state of your bedroom and it’s up to you to manage your marriage in a way that gets your needs met.

2. if you accept a sexless marriage then that’s your fault. If you don’t want a sexless, passionless marriage, then don’t tolerate it. You need to decide what you will and will not tolerate in your marriage and your life.
You need to set, communicate and enforce your expectations for your marriage and for your wife.
And it’s not a negotiation, it’s your expectations for marriage. And your wife doesn’t have to like it and she doesn’t have to agree. She simply has to choose to meet your minimum expectations of a wife, or she can choose not to and cease being your wife.
- Now, all of this only works if you have enough value to her as a husband and a man. You need to be a man she respects and is attracted to.

3. Your wife doesn’t have sex with you because she’s not sexually attracted to you and does not desire you. You can complain about that, or you can take ownership of the situation and get more attractive.
That means physique, grooming, style, confidence, masculinity, charm, fun, leadership. And it means NOT being passive, weak, needy, whiny.

4. You are responsible for leading your marriage. You are responsible for setting the direction, expectations and boundaries, and leading the dynamics within your marriage.
if you want more sex, YOU are responsible for initiating sex in a confident, attractive way. If you don’t know how, learn.
Don’t expect her to initiate.
Don’t ask for sex, that’s pathetic.
Don’t negotiate for sex, that’s pathetic.
Don’t act butthurt when you get rejected, that’s highly unattractive.
Don’t chase her around the house with your pants around your ankles like an excited puppy.
Initiate regularly (not every day, at least not at this point), with confidence and charm and playfulness.

This is on you dude. If you’re not strong, attractive and respected enough to get your wife to enthusiastically have sex with you on a somewhat regular basis, then you need to work on yourself.
- If you’ve done the work, and your wife still won’t have sex with you, then you need to be strong enough to leave an unacceptable marriage. You need to be strong enough to tell her that you will not tolerate a sexless marriage, and that if she is not willing / able to be in an enthusiastic participant in a passionate, sexual marriage - then she can’t continue being your wife.

Stop ****ing complaining, stop being a ****ing victim, stop being passive and DO something.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If you do nothing, expect to get nothing in return. 

You would be wise to read up on responsive desire.

If you look up Dr Psych Mom, she has some great information in her blogs and podcasts on responsive desire and the loss of libido and spontaneous desire that many women experience in long term relationships. 

Your plan almost guarantees a continued dead bedroom.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

If you haven't done so already, you may want to check out the book I wrote on the subject: The Dead Bedroom Fix.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jjj858 said:


> She very briefly brought it up several weeks ago as we were falling asleep. “_Maybe we can make love this weekend”. _


I would have said nothing.

I would then start with the caressing, the kissing, the removal of her clothes.

For her to bring it up, means sex and intimacy is on her mind _at that moment._

If she resists and says no, you then leave the bed, and sleep in another room.

If she does not protest and join you (enjoin you), you have your answer.

The longer anyone goes without sex, the more it becomes that _set-in-cement_ precedent.

Habits, those good or bad habits, are hard to break.

She has a Nun's Habit on.
None for her, thus,_ nun_ for you.

You must take the reins here, not expect her to do it.
Take charge in the bedroom.

If she refuses, you cannot force yourself on her.

So?

If this is the case, and you want and need intimacy, she is certainly forcing you to divorce.

You have the tap, she has the drain.
If the drain is shut off, there is only your blue ball, backup.

Get divorced.

.................................................................

Ah, in the aftermath, for her?

If she wants a man to be with her into those final years?

She would then need to find the proper plumber to open her up her P-trap!

Huh, what?



_The Typist- _


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> I might be waiting till judgment day at this point. Lol


Probably even beyond...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Do you feel that you’re more afraid of separation/possible divorce as to why you remain in a virtually sexless marriage or do you genuinely want to stay married to your wife? You may love each other but if you believe that you’re living more like roommates than husband/wife, etc…

Just wondering, I’m not familiar with your marital backstory.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jjj858 said:


> I’ve posted a couple other threads before outlining some of the deeper marital issues I’ve had with my wife. We’ve been OK lately I suppose as far as getting along. But the lack of intimacy and dead bedroom persist.
> 
> We last “had a session” sometime in February and only because I basically asked if we could at the time. But I always feel like an idiot for caving in and begging like some fool.
> 
> ...


I really can't understand men like you. Really WTF??? But it seems that every day there's more and more dudes like this OP. Men that have no self respect, no dignity, no balls. Men that once they marry, it's like that's it, life ends right there and then. These dudes are so pathetically afraid to move a finger to get out of a bad relationship that just the thought of it makes them paralyzed in fears of being by themselves. Their self worth is so low that all they think is that they won't be able to find anyone else in this life. So they stay like a pathetic supplicant martyr, waiting for a crumb to be tossed to them. Once that crumb is tossed, then,, is sufficient for them to continue suffering the ignobility of being nothing but cowards waiting for those crumbs, instead of having the balls to leave the relationship. 

Just how pathetic to be "waiting" for her to change do you think it is? You didn't know she was going to end up being this way, but by the same token did you know that you were going to end up with no balls to have the courage to get out of this relationship? what is it that you are trying to accomplish by just staying there like a supplicant waiting? are you waiting until life passes you by, so that you can say, Oh, well is too late now? is that it, I ask because if you think that she's going to change all the sudden and become a sex fiend, then mind as well give me all your money, because I have a bridge to sell you.


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## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

It was said manage your marriage in a way that gets your needs met. Why did I not think of that, but is it not “gets our needs med”? Just saying.

And then identify what you will and will not tolerate in your marriage and enforce this expectation in your marriage. Say what? Enforce? Prescription for duty sex me thinks or none!

Wives have expectations they want enforced too and the crap hits the rotating appliance when expectations diametrically opposed at times. In that case our expectations remain his and hers and not ours!

Would grooming, masculinity, confidence charm fun and leadership matter in the least in this case? Just stereotype mumble jumble for some real world cases me thinks.

Knowing the reason why the respect is not held for each or by both is paramount. Seems the first step? Not enforcing an expectation but each knowing why the respect is not there in the first place seems required for gaining respect. Seems prudent. And may have little to do with responsive desire for sex but may directly damper response for sex if the reason for lack of respect is not known!

If reasons for disrespect are known, yes, it is a choice what to do, and each partner at a crossroads to do so!
One person’s leadership is another’s crap! What then. Leave? Well one way.

Husband is to love his wife and she a partner to ensure his success. If both have opposed expectations generally one is wrong or both. If one is correct and the other fails to follow, mayday, and well you can kiss sex good bye rewarding sex anyway. If both have wrong expectations they will remain as road kill on highway number 1. Just saying. 

Absolute terror and mayhem when both enforce wrong expectations with damaged and discarded respect already in the trash! But yes, agree whining and complaining does not help. That just helps empty the trach at the roadside container.

My experience is wives are less responsive and more spontaneous before marriage? So, is it always the dudes responsibility only? …. I hardly think so!


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Rob_1 said:


> I really can't understand men like you. Really WTF??? But it seems that every day there's more and more dudes like this OP. Men that have no self respect, no dignity, no balls. Men that once they marry, it's like that's it, life ends right there and then. These dudes are so pathetically afraid to move a finger to get out of a bad relationship that just the thought of it makes them paralyzed in fears of being by themselves. Their self worth is so low that all they think is that they won't be able to find anyone else in this life. So they stay like a pathetic supplicant martyr, waiting for a crumb to be tossed to them. Once that crumb is tossed, then,, is sufficient for them to continue suffering the ignobility of being nothing but cowards waiting for those crumbs, instead of having the balls to leave the relationship.
> 
> Just how pathetic to be "waiting" for her to change do you think it is? You didn't know she was going to end up being this way, but by the same token did you know that you were going to end up with no balls to have the courage to get out of this relationship? what is it that you are trying to accomplish by just staying there like a supplicant waiting? are you waiting until life passes you by, so that you can say, Oh, well is too late now? is that it, I ask because if you think that she's going to change all the sudden and become a sex fiend, then mind as well give me all your money, because I have a bridge to sell you.


Part of my DSO world is that I counsel/coach men who pay me for my time. I've spoken one-on-one to well over 1,000 dudes by now. Just had five new guys this week. This whole phenomenon you describe is rampant. Invariably, when you get down to brass tacks, this unhealthy attachment and fear can be traced back to ****ty childhood issues. The common prescription seems to be that dad left, mom turned son into a surrogate spouse, mom convinced son that being a pushover nice guy was the way to go in life, son gets zero female attention during teen years and young adulthood, son finally meets somebody who will love him (give him sex), wife has more red flags than a Chinese parade, awful marriage ensues. That scenario covers a LARGE portion of the guys. It's beyond sad.


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## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

Not just guys! Gals have crappy childhood too not just guys and hide the fact till after marriage! When crap does hit the fan! Not always because I guy does not have balls to leave the relationship either takes balls to stay too!


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> The common prescription seems to be that dad left, mom turned son into a surrogate spouse, mom convinced son that being a pushover nice guy was the way to go in life, son gets zero female attention during teen years and young adulthood, son finally meets somebody who will love him (give him sex), wife has more red flags than a Chinese parade, awful marriage ensues. That scenario covers a LARGE portion of the guys. It's beyond sad.


Never thought about it this way, but there might be some truth in it. I grew up in a household where my mom served my dad anything and everything he wanted. I never saw my dad wash a dish, do laundry, or any kind of work around the house. He worked and provided for the family but that was it. A lot of households were like that when I was growing up. My mom was basically his servant. It was me and my brother, no other girls. Both me and my brother never had a dead bedroom and never had a woman walk all over us. I Never thought that could be a result of how I was raised; I just thought it was our personality.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

dadstartingover said:


> If you haven't done so already, you may want to check out the book I wrote on the subject: The Dead Bedroom Fix.


I’ve got the audiobook and have listened to it twice over the last several months. I’ve been making those changes; going to the gym, working on myself first, not caring what others think of my decisions but of course making sure I’m not being a jerk about it, etc. My wife has yet to respond to any of it and our bedroom is still technically dead. We’ve tried the scheduled sex thing but it feels empty and her way of initiating is “you wanna do it?” Or “if you want to do anything you have to go lock the door”. If I try to initiate it she usually turns me down. She says oral disgusts her and prefers I don’t on her. She’s very much same ole and same boring position and doesn’t like touching me.

She has no sex drive and I know she’s not talking with anyone else or cheating. Trust me I’ve looked and she keeps her phone and computer accessible easily. 

I’ve gotten to the point of not caring and am focused on me and making sure our family is taken care of.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

jjj858 said:


> .....But the lack of intimacy and dead bedroom persist.
> 
> We last “had a session” sometime in February and only because I basically asked if we could at the time. But I always feel like an idiot for *caving in and begging l*ike some fool.
> 
> ...


I hope you realize that you are part of the reason you get little sex. After about 38 years of marriage, my wife told me she never wanted to have sex again. I was in a Sexless Marriage. I told myself that I was the victim of a greedy frigid ice-queen. I wasn't. It took some commitment to change on my part, some learning how to make sure my wife felt loved and cherished, and the help of a great marriage counselor and sex therapist to save my marriage. In retrospect, I was part of the problem (not the major part, but part).

I would like you to sit back and look at what you posted. Instead of "begging" or conducting a juvenile game of she makes the first move, because it is her term, why don't you just grow up and approach this as a caring adult. I hope you realize how obvious and transparent your waiting game is to your wife. It really does many you look silly and juvenile to her, which is not sexy.

You absolutely should not beg for sex, but there is nothing wrong with initiating sex with one's wife. Maybe you should say to her the obvious, that you find her sexually attractive and that you want to "make love" as it would help the two of you to emotionally bond with each other and that would be good for your marriage. That is not begging, that is telling her how you feel, what you want and why it is good for both of you.

The next thing you need to do is learn to deal with a wife saying no to sex. Most men while they grow up learn that being rejected by a woman when you try to get a date, initiate sex, etc. is not the end of the world. Yes, rejection from someone you love deeply hurts, but avoiding that hurt is no excuse for condemning yourself to never getting what you want. Waiting for her to initiate is just hurting yourself.

One of the things that may help is to talk to your wife about how rejection when you initiate sex has left deep emotional scares. Tell her that you realize this is mostly your problem, but that you would like her help in your coping with sexual rejection. Tell her that she has the right to say no to sex with you if she doesn't feel like it, but ask her to help you by doing it in a way that doesn't emotionally traumatize you. Instead of saying no in a harsh way, ask her to tell you that now is not the right time, but that you should get some rest as she has plans to **** your brains out in the morning, the next night, or the weekend. Ask her to help you by giving you a soft no instead of a hard no. If she can ask her to change her "no" to a "not now, but soon."

Good luck, I would also recommend that you get and study to books. The first is Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy (which is not about becoming a jerk, but becoming a confident, integrated man who is not codependent upon is wife for emotional validation). The second book is M.W. Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage. Both will tell you what is happening, why and provide you with positive things you can do to change your relationship with your wife.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> I’ve posted a couple other threads before outlining some of the deeper marital issues I’ve had with my wife. We’ve been OK lately I suppose as far as getting along. But the lack of intimacy and dead bedroom persist.
> 
> We last “had a session” sometime in February and only because I basically asked if we could at the time. But I always feel like an idiot for caving in and begging like some fool.
> 
> ...


When she made that "maybe this weekend" comment, I think maybe then it might have worked if you had made the move that weekend just by saying, You still up for for it? Because as you know, I'm up for it!

If she begs off, then you can tell her she got you anticipating and disappointed you.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

You could always take my approach I have done as of late...I pretty much initiate every day. No matter what, I try to start something. Wife only says yes around 40% of the time (I have been tracking it) but its better than waiting for her to do anything as she never has and never will AND I have learned her Yes to No ratio is the same regardless of frequency. i.e. if I try twice a week or try seven times a week its still the same percentage. So I try everyday now even if _I_ am not even wanting it.

Sure its a lot of work and I hear No a lot but #^@ it! What have I got to lose?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve got the audiobook and have listened to it twice over the last several months. I’ve been making those changes; going to the gym, working on myself first, not caring what others think of my decisions but of course making sure I’m not being a jerk about it, etc. My wife has yet to respond to any of it and our bedroom is still technically dead. We’ve tried the scheduled sex thing but it feels empty and her way of initiating is “you wanna do it?” Or “if you want to do anything you have to go lock the door”. If I try to initiate it she usually turns me down. She says oral disgusts her and prefers I don’t on her. She’s very much same ole and same boring position and doesn’t like touching me.
> 
> She has no sex drive and I know she’s not talking with anyone else or cheating. Trust me I’ve looked and she keeps her phone and computer accessible easily.
> 
> I’ve gotten to the point of not caring and am focused on me and making sure our family is taken care of.


1. You need to let this process run for 6 to 12 months. She’s had years of experience perceiving you in a certain way and reinforcing it. It takes more than a couple few months to change that perception and give her any confidence that it’s real and permanent.

2. it’s only a 50-50 odds that she comes around after all of your improvement. She may not, ever.
The point is, your actions to improve yourself are for YOU, not her. The point is to make YOU stronger, more confident, more attractive - so that you’ll be in a better position in 6 or 12 months, regardless of how well she responds, or doesn’t.

And if you’re serious and consistent about improving yourself over the course of a year, her responsiveness or lack there of will be less consequential to you.
If she comes around, cool, best case scenario. If she doesn’t, that sucks, but you’ll be strong enough and confident enough to know (and be able to act on) that you deserve, and are capable of finding, a much more fulfilling relationship with someone else.

So keep reading, keep learning, keep improving yourself physically, mentally, financially, charm/social calibration wise. Stay that course. It’s not about her, it’s about you.
Give it a year and you’ll be in a much better place either way. The stay plan is the same as the go plan.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's so hard to know how to give someone this type of advice when you're not there to see their demeanor and dynamic between them. It might be that someone who was around them together to see how they interact could nail the problem right away.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> still have a pretty good sex drive and desire for it. But it’s amazing to me that she can go this long and it apparently rarely crosses her mind and doesn’t seem to be a need she has. Wouldn’t have married her had I known we’d end up this way.


Is your wife still on Zoloft? Is she still telling you (some of) the guys at work are no threat? Maybe meaning they are a major threat? Since last October, what has changed ( if anything ). As you know, antidepressants kill libido for either gender. What professional is prescribing Zoloft and what is the underlying problem for that?

The concept of "waiting her out" isn't doing you any favors. It is kind of a pointless way of dealing with difficulties in a marriage. As is "asking" for sex. Every woman and every man know very well that their spouse and the marriage NEED intimacy. It is what drives and preserves any pair bond. It is what drives the animal kingdom. So her ignoring that essential aspect of marriage is her telling you without words that she doesn't give a ****. Either her libido is shot because of the drugs, or alternately her libido is fine for the guys at work, but not for you. 

Just FYI, I have been married for a very long time and have* NEVER* asked for sex. My wife knows 100% I am DTF any time. And I know she is as well. We are BONDED to one another. If we didn't want to do it with one another we wouldn't be married. So we DO.

You should have solved this whole thing by now. Nothing since February indicates you are no better off than 8 months ago. Do you want to just waste life a few months at a time or do you want to have a normal married life with lots of mutually satisfying intimacy? Fish or cut bait. Sorry for the rant.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> Mybabysgotit said:
> 
> 
> > Never thought about it this way, but there might be some truth in it. I grew up in a household where my mom served my dad anything and everything he wanted. I never saw my dad wash a dish, do laundry, or any kind of work around the house. He worked and provided for the family but that was it. A lot of households were like that when I was growing up. My mom was basically his servant. It was me and my brother, no other girls. Both me and my brother never had a dead bedroom and never had a woman walk all over us. I Never thought that could be a result of how I was raised; I just thought it was our personality.
> ...


FOO issues can create a lot of relationship issues later in life.

That pendulum can swing both ways.

One of my best friends is the Poster Child for what DSO mentions above. 

His father left his mom when he was about 10 and he was the only boy with 2 younger sisters being raised by a bitter and resentful scorned mother. 

He was raised that male sexuality was a curse on humanity and that men were pigs and predators and that for them to be decent people and have a partner, he must completely suppress his own wants and needs and completely subdue his own sexuality and completely cater to the women’s comfort and basically be her domestic servant. 

He has yoked himself to some of the most disordered, asexual and castrating women I’ve ever met in my life. He is the walking embodiment of a beta simp. 

With his first wife he literally had sex with her a handful of times in over a dozen years and those were for the purposes of procreation per her demands. And the numbskull agreed to it because he didn’t think she’d get knocked up right away and he’d be able to have sex.

It’s not like they even had sex over a period of days. She’d take her temp and do her charts and then she’d “let” him Fk her while ovulating ONCE that month and then he’d had to wait to see if she got her period the next month and pee on test strips and such. 

Usually she got pregnant the 1st time and then it would be 2-3 more years until she wanted another one and the dipsht kept going along with it.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she begs off, then you can tell her she got you anticipating and disappointed you.


Caution. I did this just a few times many years ago and she reacted by another layer of resentment and a pledge to never talk about a set time again. I think we’re making progress out of our mess now…


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

gr8ful1 said:


> Caution. I did this just a few times many years ago and she reacted by another layer of resentment and a pledge to never talk about a set time again. I think we’re making progress out of our mess now…


I hope you are. Sounds like you've tried just about everything. 

You know, being a woman, my two options I'd have taken would be leave or just give up and forget about having sex and stop fighting. Guys don't seem able to do the latter, and some women don't either. But fighting a losing battle, I've always just had that philosophy that if there isn't anything I can do about it, stop worrying about it, because you can't change people.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I hope you are. Sounds like you've tried just about everything.
> 
> You know, being a woman, my two options I'd have taken would be leave or just give up and forget about having sex and stop fighting. Guys don't seem able to do the latter, and some women don't either. But fighting a losing battle, I've always just had that philosophy that if there isn't anything I can do about it, stop worrying about it, because you can't change people.


I think guys have a harder time just giving up on sex as its the innate desire to reproduce. No matter who you are, where you live, etc. as a guy your instincts are to have sex as that's what being a life form is all about...continuing the life form.

Sure women have that too but not as much as men as men are designed to be the aggressor and also once women have kids, their job is done more or less based on what mother nature set up.

They say humans are the only ones that have sex just for fun so maybe that has some merit to it?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think guys have a harder time just giving up on sex as its the innate desire to reproduce. No matter who you are, where you live, etc. as a guy your instincts are to have sex as that's what being a life form is all about...continuing the life form.
> 
> Sure women have that too but not as much as men as men are designed to be the aggressor and also once women have kids, their job is done more or less based on what mother nature set up.
> 
> They say humans are the only ones that have sex just for fun so maybe that has some merit to it?


I think it has a lot to do with it!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> They say humans are the only ones that have sex just for fun so maybe that has some merit to it?


Look up Bonobos.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I honestly don’t care at this point if my wife changes or not. I’m focused on making myself be a better version of me. Divorce would decimate me because I don’t want to be apart from my kids, and financially it would ruin me. I have another 8 years until my youngest is out of school and I’ll reevaluate then. 

My wife and I had another discussion the other night on our date night and she said because I keep pestering her to do the one thing she’s uncomfortable with (oral), she doesn’t trust me enough in the bedroom to maybe try other things. I call BS on that because I haven’t asked her for oral in a long time. I’ve joked about it but I know never to ask her for it. Boy do I miss it though. 

I have noticed since I started working on me, my sexual desire for her has started to drop. I really hate how limited she has me when it comes to sex. She knows I feel resentment towards her because of our sex life, though she tells me if I resent her there, I resent her for our entire relationship, which is not true.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife and I had another discussion the other night on our date night and she said because I keep pestering her to do the one thing she’s uncomfortable with (oral), she doesn’t trust me enough in the bedroom to maybe try other things.


Some “date night”. Would you date your wife if you werent already shackled to her? Sounds like she has a wonderful loving attitude for a date


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Divorce would decimate me because I don’t want to be apart from my kids, and financially it would ruin me. I have another 8 years until my youngest is out of school and I’ll reevaluate then.


You sound like you are in same situation as @FloridaGuy1. Trapped. Making best of a bad situation. Hopefully your wife diesnt decide down the road that she can divorce you and have the lifestyle w/o putting up with you “pestering” her to use her words


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> The second book is M.W. Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage.


I didn’t find this book useful in the slightest, it’s more about how terrible it is to be in a sex starved marriage rather than how to repair or end it (IMHO).

I like what @FloridaGuy1 has done, if she says yes 40% of the time no matter how many times you initiate, then if you were to initiate say 5 times a day you’d have a 92% chance of sex every day. That’s pretty good!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> if you were to initiate say 5 times a day you’d have a 92% chance of sex every day. That’s pretty good!


I imagine the math breaks down as the frequency of initiation increases.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> I imagine the math breaks down as the frequency of initiation increases.


Dreams shattered!


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Some “date night”. Would you date your wife if you werent already shackled to her? Sounds like she has a wonderful loving attitude for a date


Probably not. She was not like this at all when we were dating. Yes we try to do date nights every now and then and yes I’ve tried being her lover along with being the family provider.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Probably not. She was not like this at all when we were dating. Yes we try to do date nights every now and then and yes I’ve tried being her lover along with being the family provider.


Did she give you blow jobs when you were dating?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> Did she give you blow jobs when you were dating?


Yep. Right after we got married she stopped. She told me a long time ago she did it because she was afraid I’d leave her if she didn’t. Lately when I have brought it up she says she tried it then but hated it. She says it disgusts her and she hates the idea of having her head anywhere near my crotch. It takes effort just to have her touch it. The only time she actively does is when we are starting missionary. 

She was a virgin when we met and didn’t date much. She told me I was the first guy she tried oral with.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Yep. Right after we got married she stopped. She told me a long time ago she did it because she was afraid I’d leave her if she didn’t. Lately when I have brought it up she says she tried it then but hated it. She says it disgusts her and she hates the idea of having her head anywhere near my crotch. It takes effort just to have her touch it. The only time she actively does is when we are starting missionary.
> 
> She was a virgin when we met and didn’t date much. She told me I was the first guy she tried oral with.


Sounds like false advertising. Does she let you do oral or her?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> Sounds like false advertising. Does she let you do oral or her?


She will, but doesn’t prefer it. If I do, I have to go brush my teeth and use mouth wash before she will kiss me. She says the orgasm isn’t the same as with intercourse and said she’s usually one and done on those (sounds like a guy…).


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> She will, but doesn’t prefer it. If I do, I have to go brush my teeth and use mouth wash before she will kiss me. She says the orgasm isn’t the same as with intercourse and said she’s usually one and done on those (sounds like a guy…).


I trust your hygiene is impeccable and that you only ask her to do it before you start PIV.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Dreams shattered!


It asymptotic at maybe twice/week. Sorry


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> I trust your hygiene is impeccable and that you only ask her to do it before you start PIV.


Tried that. Yes my hygiene is very clean. 

I’ve even offered it as a one off with nothing in return but nope, nothing. Sucks as I really like that too.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Tried that. Yes my hygiene is very clean.
> 
> I’ve even offered it as a one off with nothing in return but nope, nothing. Sucks as I really like that too.


Sorry. Absent a miracle, it will only get worse. The rest of your sexual life is a long time to spend unhappy and frustrated.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Probably not. She was not like this at all when we were dating. Yes we try to do date nights every now and then and yes I’ve tried being her lover along with being the family provider.


False advertising from her. Dishonest. Sad. Date nights sound rather pointless waste of your valuable time honestly.

FWIW, wife n I in our long marriage never did “Date Nights”. Our kids went EVERYWHERE we went. No family nearby, and we actually enjoyed having them with us. Our “date nights” were inside our locked bedroom, kids knew better not knock unless they were on fire or wrath of Kahn wud arrive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> I really can't understand men like you. Really WTF??? But it seems that every day there's more and more dudes like this OP. Men that have no self respect, no dignity, no balls. Men that once they marry, it's like that's it, life ends right there and then. These dudes are so pathetically afraid to move a finger to get out of a bad relationship that just the thought of it makes them paralyzed in fears of being by themselves. Their self worth is so low that all they think is that they won't be able to find anyone else in this life. So they stay like a pathetic supplicant martyr, waiting for a crumb to be tossed to them. Once that crumb is tossed, then,, is sufficient for them to continue suffering the ignobility of being nothing but cowards waiting for those crumbs, instead of having the balls to leave the relationship.
> 
> Just how pathetic to be "waiting" for her to change do you think it is? You didn't know she was going to end up being this way, but by the same token did you know that you were going to end up with no balls to have the courage to get out of this relationship? what is it that you are trying to accomplish by just staying there like a supplicant waiting? are you waiting until life passes you by, so that you can say, Oh, well is too late now? is that it, I ask because if you think that she's going to change all the sudden and become a sex fiend, then mind as well give me all your money, because I have a bridge to sell you.


Your posts ring true.

And, sting, too!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> She will, but doesn’t prefer it. If I do, I have to go brush my teeth and use mouth wash before she will kiss me. She says the orgasm isn’t the same as with intercourse and said she’s usually one and done on those (sounds like a guy…).


Uh, and you should practice good oral hygeine before you go down on her with your moral hijinks!

Keep everything touching as clean as possible.

That way, the well is always willing and ready, wet and warm.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> Uh, and you should practice good oral hygeine before you go down on her with your moral hijinks!
> 
> Keep everything touching as clean as possible.
> 
> That way, the well is always willing and ready, wet and warm.


That stuff has to happen after I go down on her before she will kiss me. Before I always make sure my mouth and hands are clean. Don’t want her getting a UTI.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, don't eat bread before your oral dissertation.

That yeast in bread may rise to bite her!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GoodDad5 said:


> I honestly don’t care at this point if my wife changes or not. I’m focused on making myself be a better version of me. Divorce would decimate me because I don’t want to be apart from my kids, and financially it would ruin me. I have another 8 years until my youngest is out of school and I’ll reevaluate then.
> 
> My wife and I had another discussion the other night on our date night and she said because I keep pestering her to do the one thing she’s uncomfortable with (oral), she doesn’t trust me enough in the bedroom to maybe try other things. I call BS on that because I haven’t asked her for oral in a long time. I’ve joked about it but I know never to ask her for it. Boy do I miss it though.
> 
> I have noticed since I started working on me, my sexual desire for her has started to drop. I really hate how limited she has me when it comes to sex. She knows I feel resentment towards her because of our sex life, though she tells me if I resent her there, I resent her for our entire relationship, which is not true.


Is this your thread?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> Is this your thread?


Sorry, didn’t mean to threadjack. I can certainly relate to the OP and others on here though.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> I imagine the math breaks down as the frequency of initiation increases.


Actually the math still works but its a lot of work trying to initiate on a daily basis. Feels like a second job I am not getting paid for.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ccpowerslave said:


> I didn’t find this book useful in the slightest, i*t’s more about how terrible it is to be in a sex starved marriage rather than how to repair or end it* (IMHO).
> 
> I like what @FloridaGuy1 has done, if she says yes 40% of the time no matter how many times you initiate, then if you were to initiate say 5 times a day you’d have a 92% chance of sex every day. That’s pretty good!


In my opinion, the parts about Getting a Life, doing 180's, and just doing it, were about how to change the dynamic within your marriage.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Some of the replies here quite frankly I find ridiculous.

Be a man, responsive desire, initiate more.

I’m sorry but any woman (or man for that matter) who doesn’t show any affection to their partnand lies there like a dead body night after night is damaging their relationship.

Complete and utter selfishness.
The simple fact of the matter is that person isn’t willing to fulfil your needs. They don’t care.

And when you’re in a committed relationship that’s not acceptable in any shape or form.

im sick and tired of reading the same nonsense that a man who gets continually rejected should initiate more because he’s the man.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Some of the replies here quite frankly I find ridiculous.
> 
> Be a man, responsive desire, initiate more.
> 
> ...


Agreed but the only other option is divorce. Unless you just want to go without sex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Some of the replies here quite frankly I find ridiculous.
> 
> Be a man, responsive desire, initiate more.
> 
> ...


You continue to initiate and be rejected, it just builds an air tight case on why you are divorcing the cold heartless B and she has no defense to the fact. I would keep record and when I file and she balks, here is the proof...this is all on you!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Actually the math still works but its a lot of work trying to initiate on a daily basis. Feels like a second job I am not getting paid for.


Sometimes my initiation is hey, how about a poke? We've shortened things up by being very clear at times. Works for us anyway.

In reference to Lonesome Dove.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sometimes my initiation is hey, how about a poke? We've shortened things up by being very clear at times. Works for us anyway.
> 
> In reference to Lonesome Dove.


That was Gus and Lorena!!! I LOVED that miniseries!!!!!!! The book was also amazing!


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## ABiolarWife (8 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> From one of your threads, you give off the impression of being nonchalant and not really caring what happens either way. You mentioned that you might have to sell your toys, and get your own place, but you don't want to leave your son.
> 
> You might find my words as harsh and that is ok. But if I can pick up the vibe that you really don't seem to care then she can as well. I am sure that she has made mistakes and isn't free of guilt. But you two have a very young child and she is probably not feeling very secure knowing the marriage is on the rocks. This is not a good feeling for a lady. Her taking the Zoloft is a sign that she knows she has an issue and is trying to resolve it. But it darn sure doesn't help that you are upset about her medication and only care about oral sex and French kissing from her. You should be acting as her rock and encouraging her to talk with you and seek whatever help and treatment she may need.
> 
> ...


This is so well said. OP - I encourage you to read this over and over. I would print it out and put it on the bathroom mirror where I could see it every damn day.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sometimes my initiation is hey, how about a poke? We've shortened things up by being very clear at times. Works for us anyway.
> 
> In reference to Lonesome Dove.


Wife and I when we say something at same time or one of us is thinking it and other one says it first...we started saying Jinx you owe me a poke! Instead of a coke. Now we just look at each other and say Poke!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> You could always take my approach I have done as of late...I pretty much initiate every day. No matter what, I try to start something. Wife only says yes around 40% of the time (I have been tracking it) but its better than waiting for her to do anything as she never has and never will AND I have learned her Yes to No ratio is the same regardless of frequency. i.e. if I try twice a week or try seven times a week its still the same percentage. So I try everyday now even if _I_ am not even wanting it.
> 
> Sure its a lot of work and I hear No a lot but #^@ it! What have I got to lose?


How are you initiating?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABiolarWife said:


> This is so well said. OP - I encourage you to read this over and over. I would print it out and put it on the bathroom mirror where I could see it every damn day.


I agree too. In fact, this is where I went wrong in my marriage and, when I realised, it was too late. Not sure if it would have made any difference long term, but I greatly contributed to the demise. I was selfish.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Good luck being a martyr for the kids. It’s a thankless task.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Good luck being a martyr for the kids. It’s a thankless task.


yes, not easy...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Wife and I when we say something at same time or one of us is thinking it and other one says it first...we started saying Jinx you owe me a poke! Instead of a coke. Now we just look at each other and say Poke!


That series was a real classic.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> How are you initiating?


Any way I can...you name it! Verbal, physical, flirting, touching, taking charge, charming, etc.

I have just learned if I want to have sex, I have to just keep trying. She is not going to initiate and she is not going to take the lead.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Any way I can...you name it! Verbal, physical, flirting, touching, taking charge, charming, etc.
> 
> I have just learned if I want to have sex, I have to just keep trying. She is not going to initiate and she is not going to take the lead.


You initiate everyday? Doesn't she get fed up with it?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> You initiate everyday? Doesn't she get fed up with it?


Not really. She just says No and I move on.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not really. She just says No and I move on.


At least that!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not really. She just says No and I move on.


But you wrote before that she says “yes” about 1/2 the time? So if you got romantic twice a day you would get “lucky” every day?

I only have experience with one woman, you with many. But my wife responds to me caressing, whispering, hugging, kissing throughout the day. I have NEVER asked. She is not an initiator, but her “answer” is always “yes”. Aren’t most females socialized to be romanced and respond but not initiate?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> But you wrote before that she says “yes” about 1/2 the time? So if you got romantic twice a day you would get “lucky” every day?
> 
> I only have experience with one woman, you with many. But my wife responds to me caressing, whispering, hugging, kissing throughout the day. I have NEVER asked. She is not an initiator, but her “answer” is always “yes”. Aren’t most females socialized to be romanced and respond but not initiate?


40% of the time...  I couldn't do it. Being rejected over half the time would make me greatly depressed. That's why I was ok with scheduling sex with my wife...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> 40% of the time...  I couldn't do it. Being rejected over half the time would make me greatly depressed. That's why I was ok with scheduling sex with my wife...


Oh we schedule. Just like we schedule meals. 4pm-5pm is “afternoon delight”. Why is that a problem?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

I’ve been told by wife ”it’s gross and smelly.” Regarding me going down on her. Yet, after I work my magic,no complaints. Lol


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## ABiolarWife (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I agree too. In fact, this is where I went wrong in my marriage and, when I realised, it was too late. Not sure if it would have made any difference long term, but I greatly contributed to the demise. I was selfish.


If it is not too personal? Could you expand on that thought and about being selfish. Two of my character defects are selfishness and entitlement. Combine that with a major manic episode (my first) and bingo! You are suddenly an adulterer. And please, do not get me wrong, I am not making any excuses for my affair. While bipolar mania contributed to the affair on a gigantic way? I knew what I was doing was wrong. The mania just made it easy to not care. Made it simple to 'justify' my behavior. I own that. I have to.

I would like to hear other's experiences along these lines as well. Thank you so much!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABiolarWife said:


> If it is not too personal? Could you expand on that thought and about being selfish. Two of my character defects are selfishness and entitlement. Combine that with a major manic episode (my first) and bingo! You are suddenly an adulterer. And please, do not get me wrong, I am not making any excuses for my affair. While bipolar mania contributed to the affair on a gigantic way? I knew what I was doing was wrong. The mania just made it easy to not care. Made it simple to 'justify' my behavior. I own that. I have to.
> 
> I would like to hear other's experiences along these lines as well. Thank you so much!


Not personal at all... it's a bit of a long story, but basically, when my wife started having mental issues, I didn't support her properly. I was worried about her taking anti-depressants because I knew it would ruin our sex life, and they did. Instead of putting that aside and concentrate on her well being, I got selfish and only thought about my needs. I was immature and I had abandoning issues. That was the start of the end.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> 40% of the time...  I couldn't do it. Being rejected over half the time would make me greatly depressed. That's why I was ok with scheduling sex with my wife...


Yeah its around 40% of the time @Rus47 So yeah if I tried twice a day you might be right?! 

And yeah @In Absentia it does get depressing sometime but what can you do? The only other option is divorce and I am not convinced that would solve anything. Someone else posted a reply to one of my comments a while back that neither my wife nor I actually have a problem, we are just at different expectations and desires for levels of sex. I think that's a great accurate statement.

While some folks here have sex everyday, I think thats an anomaly just like the folks that go a long time without. Thats an anomaly too. I think its the standard bell curve where a few are on the left with low sex and a few are on the right with a lot of sex and the majority of us are somewhere in the middle. And I have learned I can increase our frequency if I just keep at it.

@Cletus posted something in another thread that said something to the effect of it might be wrong to expect his wife to change to meet his expectations (sorry if I am misquoting) but I am seeing that might be a true statement. I think that fact is few few are 100% on the same page with their spouse for sex and those that are, are fortunate and those that are not just have to do the best we can. 

So my current situation is not ideal but its better than going without. I don't know there is much else I can do?

And scheduling didn't work for us as if she wasn't in the mood, then it was a challenge.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> But you wrote before that she says “yes” about 1/2 the time? So if you got romantic twice a day you would get “lucky” every day?
> 
> I only have experience with one woman, you with many. But my wife responds to me caressing, whispering, hugging, kissing throughout the day. I have NEVER asked. She is not an initiator, but her “answer” is always “yes”. Aren’t most females socialized to be romanced and respond but not initiate?


I think they are but they don't always say Yes. I honestly think your wife is rare (in a good way mind you!) as I don't know many guys that can state they have sex daily aside from the handful here. None of my make friends do.

Even when I was single and dating, the women I dated did not want sex everyday.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah its around 40% of the time @Rus47 So yeah if I tried twice a day you might be right?!
> 
> And yeah @In Absentia it does get depressing sometime but what can you do? The only other option is divorce and I am not convinced that would solve anything. Someone else posted a reply to one of my comments a while back that neither my wife nor I actually have a problem, we are just at different expectations and desires for levels of sex. I think that's a great accurate statement.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. We were having scheduled sex every couple of wees and I thought it wasn't enough, but now that I'm not having it any more, boy, I do miss it. A lot. The thought of not having sex ever again for the rest of my life is rather depressing...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Even when I was single and dating, the women I dated did not want sex everyday.


I had one girlfriend who wanted it twice a day and although I was 20, it started getting a bit "old" after a while... lol


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## ABiolarWife (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Not personal at all... it's a bit of a long story, but basically, when my wife started having mental issues, I didn't support her properly. I was worried about her taking anti-depressants because I knew it would ruin our sex life, and they did. Instead of putting that aside and concentrate on her well being, I got selfish and only thought about my needs. I was immature and I had abandoning issues. That was the start of the end.


Thank you for sharing. Then you are divorced?

As someone who has an absolutely terrible mental illness...one that can never be cured and will get progressively worse as the physical damage to my brain escalates? This makes me unbelievably sad to read.

As hard as we are to love sometimes? We deserve loving relationships as much as anyone else. And there are ways around the libido issues that can be caused by SSRIs. I am not only on HRT, as I have gone through menopause, but also a small testosterone supplement. And I have maintained a VERY high libido. My husband, so far, needs nothing whatsoever.

Are you in another relationship at this point?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABiolarWife said:


> Thank you for sharing. Then you are divorced?
> 
> As someone who has an absolutely terrible mental illness...one that can never be cured and will get progressively worse as the physical damage to my brain escalates? This makes me unbelievably sad to read.
> 
> ...


We are separated. And yes, it's terribly sad I got it wrong. My wife says we are 50/50 to blame and it's true. She never really communicated the seriousness of her issues and carried on normally. She was functioning fine. That said, I should have supported her regardless and I tried. She needed therapy badly, but she couldn't face her ghosts. I guess she detached from me eventually. Defense mechanism. The marriage fizzled away. When she told me she lied to me the last 10 years, I was shocked, but that's part of her illness.

I'm not in a relationship right now. I doubt I'll get over this mess I created any time soon.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Any way I can...you name it! Verbal, physical, flirting, touching, taking charge, charming, etc.
> 
> I have just learned if I want to have sex, I have to just keep trying. She is not going to initiate and she is not going to take the lead.


Mine is exactly the same, lies there like a dead body night after night. Has openly said she's never going to initiate.

The fact remains that it's a highly selfish action that's damaging to a marriage. Add to the fact that as my wife knows and probably yours that if they did initiate they wouldn't be rejected.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Mine is exactly the same, lies there like a dead body night after night. Has openly said she's never going to initiate.
> 
> The fact remains that it's a highly selfish action that's damaging to a marriage. Add to the fact that as my wife knows and probably yours that if they did initiate they wouldn't be rejected.


Agree 100%!!!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you. We were having scheduled sex every couple of wees and I thought it wasn't enough, but now that I'm not having it any more, boy, I do miss it. A lot. The thought of not having sex ever again for the rest of my life is rather depressing...


My wife told me she couldn't think of anything worse than scheduled sex. It's certainly a lot better than none.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> My wife told me she couldn't think of anything worse than scheduled sex. It's certainly a lot better than none.


I think the difference with most other people here is that my wife loved sex when we had it. Sex was never boring. I guess she didn't like being pressurised. She needed to get in the mood, so scheduled sex was good because she could prepare herself for it. Not in a negative way. But, of course, she didn't really need it or wanted it because she had zero libido.


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## ABiolarWife (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> We are separated. And yes, it's terribly sad I got it wrong. My wife says we are 50/50 to blame and it's true. She never really communicated the seriousness of her issues and carried on normally. She was functioning fine. That said, I should have supported her regardless and I tried. She needed therapy badly, but she couldn't face her ghosts. I guess she detached from me eventually. Defense mechanism. The marriage fizzled away. When she told me she lied to me the last 10 years, I was shocked, but that's part of her illness.
> 
> I'm not in a relationship right now. I doubt I'll get over this mess I created any time soon.


I am so very sorry to hear this. If you have read my posts you know just how close I came to losing my marriage, family, everything I love permanently. As it was, losing them for 3 years was hard enough.

But we are both dedicated to making our marriage work. And are willing to put in the work to make that happen. And one of the things I personally have taken away from all this? That marriage counseling is not just for marriages in trouble. That it can benefit the healthiest of marriages. It has put our communication with each other on a whole other level. And has taught us to pay attention to our relationship every day - without fail.

But you can take what you have learned, and learned the hard way, into your next relationship. And be far better served and be a far better partner next time around. Wish you all the best.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABiolarWife said:


> I am so very sorry to hear this. If you have read my posts you know just how close I came to losing my marriage, family, everything I love permanently. As it was, losing them for 3 years was hard enough.
> 
> But we are both dedicated to making our marriage work. And are willing to put in the work to make that happen. And one of the things I personally have taken away from all this? That marriage counseling is not just for marriages in trouble. That it can benefit the healthiest of marriages. It has put our communication with each other on a whole other level. And has taught us to pay attention to our relationship every day - without fail.
> 
> But you can take what you have learned, and learned the hard way, into your next relationship. And be far better served and be a far better partner next time around. Wish you all the best.


Thank you. It still hurts a lot, and I regret my actions immensely, so a new relationship is not going to happen in the near future. That said, I have learnt a lot.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Mine is exactly the same, lies there like a dead body night after night. Has openly said she's never going to initiate.
> 
> The fact remains that it's a highly selfish action that's damaging to a marriage. Add to the fact that as my wife knows and probably yours that if they did initiate they wouldn't be rejected.


Sounds like you’re fighting the wrong battle. Sure, everyone wants their wife to initiate sometimes. Some women are good with that and some women struggle mightily with that.

The more important matter is when you initiate, does she enthusiastically participate (most of the time)?
If the answer is yes, just accept that your wife’s desire is largely responsive and go initiate as the man, And enjoy your sex life.
If the answer is no, then the problem isn’t that your wife doesn’t initiate, the problem is that she doesn’t desire you sexually. Go fight that battle and stop worrying about whether or not she initiates.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Sounds like you’re fighting the wrong battle. Sure, everyone wants their wife to initiate sometimes. Some women are good with that and some women struggle mightily with that.
> 
> The more important matter is when you initiate, does she enthusiastically participate (most of the time)?
> If the answer is yes, just accept that your wife’s desire is largely responsive and go initiate as the man, And enjoy your sex life.
> If the answer is no, then the problem isn’t that your wife doesn’t initiate, the problem is that she doesn’t desire you sexually. Go fight that battle and stop worrying about whether or not she initiates.


The answer is no the majority of the time. Especially whilst sober. Alcohol makes her relax she says.

She won’t do oral for me at any time. or hand jobs if it’s time of the month for her. Won’t try sex in any other part of the house. Won’t get in the shower with me.

Shes never going to change. Not with me anyway.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> The answer is no the majority of the time. Especially whilst sober. Alcohol makes her relax she says.
> 
> She won’t do oral for me at any time. or hand jobs if it’s time of the month for her. Won’t try sex in any other part of the house. Won’t get in the shower with me.
> 
> Shes never going to change. Not with me anyway.


Are you going to DO something to improve your situation, or just complain about it like a powerless victim?

You can’t change your wife, but you can change YOU.

Why doesn’t your wife desire you sexually?
Are you the kind of man that women find attractive? Are you confident, charming/flirty/fun, relatively fit? Are you providing leadership in your marriage?
If not, then you have work to do.

YOU have a choice as to what you will accept in your marriage and your life. So what are YOU going to DO about it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> Are you going to DO something to improve your situation, or just complain about it like a powerless victim?
> 
> You can’t change your wife, but you can change YOU.
> 
> ...


But....what if you can answer a resounding YES to all those questions and your wife is still so-so on sex like I alluded to in my post above. (or maybe it was the other thread?) Either way.... Then, all your only other answer is divorce.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But....what if you can answer a resounding YES to all those questions and your wife is still so-so on sex like I alluded to in my post above. (or maybe it was the other thread?) Either way.... Then, all your only other answer is divorce.


well, yes, the only other solution is divorce.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Are you going to DO something to improve your situation, or just complain about it like a powerless victim?
> 
> You can’t change your wife, but you can change YOU.
> 
> ...


yes I’ve been through all this over the years. Tried everything.

i went the gym and she moaned about how much it was costing. Then said Id lost too much weight.

I’d say the only thing would be an issue is the leadership side. My wife has earned twice as much as me for a number of years now and uses it as a stick to beat me and try and control me.

Anyway I don’t want to hijack the thread by going off in another direction but even when our wages were on par she was still the same.

Shes told me she never masturbates. Has low sex drive and that’s the way she is. She wasn’t like that when we met at 17, her reply is that was over 20 years ago now.

she has an excuse and answer for everything. Just waiting for it to be right financially and I’m out.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But....what if you can answer a resounding YES to all those questions and your wife is still so-so on sex like I alluded to in my post above. (or maybe it was the other thread?) Either way.... Then, all your only other answer is divorce.


Then you need to decide for yourself whether your sexual relationship is fulfilling enough to be acceptable to you or not.
If it’s satisfying enough, all things considered, than ok. 
If not, then yes divorce and find someone who has more desire for you.


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## ABiolarWife (8 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> yes I’ve been through all this over the years. Tried everything.
> 
> i went the gym and she moaned about how much it was costing. Then said Id lost too much weight.
> 
> ...


You DO realize that she will have to pay YOU spousal support? But, in the meantime, I would highly suggest implementing the 180. Stop catering to her. Go to the gym anyway and inform her you do not care how much it costs. Do not engage in arguments. Detach. Go and do things just for you and purposely exclude her. Engage with your friends and hobbies. And when she starts questioning you about what you are doing (and she will) grey rock her.

Do NOT engage in cheating though - it would be easy for you to slip into an emotional affair quite easily. Resist the urge and maintain your integrity. But make sure your actions tell her loud and clear - you are beginning to move on with your life. And you can do it with her...or without her. And that you will be just fine either way.

You might be pleasantly surprised at her long term reaction.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> yes I’ve been through all this over the years. Tried everything.
> 
> i went the gym and she moaned about how much it was costing. Then said Id lost too much weight.
> 
> ...


OK, so the core problem is that she doesn’t respect you. Women respect strength and leadership, and despise men who they see as passive or weaker than them. 
Women do not respect men they can push around or control.
Women do not respect men they see as beneath them in any way.

It seems she has all the power and control in your marriage, and that is a massive turn off for a woman.

You get what you tolerate dude. 
Work on yourself to figure out why you’re willing to tolerate a life with a wife who doesn’t respect you, doesn’t desire you and wont **** you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

_Moderator Note: _Folks, please remember this the OP's thread. No threadjacking, OK?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> _Moderator Note: _Folks, please remember this the OP's thread. No threadjacking, OK?


Mea culpa.
Though all the TJ dialogue does apply directly to OP as well. Too bad he seems to have bailed out again.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> Part of my DSO world is that I counsel/coach men who pay me for my time. I've spoken one-on-one to well over 1,000 dudes by now. Just had five new guys this week. This whole phenomenon you describe is rampant. Invariably, when you get down to brass tacks, this unhealthy attachment and fear can be traced back to ****ty childhood issues. The common prescription seems to be that dad left, mom turned son into a surrogate spouse, mom convinced son that being a pushover nice guy was the way to go in life, son gets zero female attention during teen years and young adulthood, son finally meets somebody who will love him (give him sex), wife has more red flags than a Chinese parade, awful marriage ensues. That scenario covers a LARGE portion of the guys. It's beyond sad.


This sounds like about 60% of my life.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I had one girlfriend who wanted it twice a day and although I was 20, it started getting a bit "old" after a while... lol


I hear ya. When I was 23, had a GF that was 34. I was basically a boy toy to a nympho. I got to where I almost dreaded getting off work. I wanted more! She was killing me!


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> She was killing me!


Yea, but what a way to go!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diceplayer said:


> Yea, but what a way to go!


Yeah kind of messed me up. I was the good guy looking for LTR. I was young and naive, I had refrained from sex until 23 looking for "the one" until I gave up because it seemed all the girls wanted to ride the 🎠🎠🎠🎠 of asshole guys. I finally gave in to the girls. This 34 yr old was maybe the 3rd girl I had ever had sex with. The others were ONS. She looked like the readhead on CSI whose dad owns the casino. 

I should have known I was nothing more than a F-boy when she tried to loan me to her BFF one night. I thought it was a test, did she want a 3some? No. I just sleep with BFF. 35 yr old brunette nurse. I said no, as she stood over me in her black teddy and stockings, while I was laying on the bed. I would have married this woman, I was stupid kid, should have known a 34 yr old divorced red headed nympho with a 9 yr old was not interested in LTR.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Not personal at all... it's a bit of a long story, but basically, when my wife started having mental issues, I didn't support her properly. I was worried about her taking anti-depressants because I knew it would ruin our sex life, and they did. Instead of putting that aside and concentrate on her well being, I got selfish and only thought about my needs. I was immature and I had abandoning issues. That was the start of the end.


There you go again rationalizing all that to be your fault. It’s not your fault. Will, it’s not your fault. It’s not your fault.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

"The waiting is the hardest part" - Tom Petty


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> yes I’ve been through all this over the years. Tried everything.
> 
> i went the gym and she moaned about how much it was costing. Then said Id lost too much weight.
> 
> ...


Funny thing about money. I have never cared or let it define me. My friends in high school and college were amazed at how little I needed. One of my best friends said once, you are the only person I know who could live on $50 for 3 months. 

Now, that is an exaggeration of course, but my wife changed careers a couple years ago and by next year will be making possibly a lot more than me-- very likely I would say. That does not make me feel more attached to her or needy towards her and she knows I flat out do not care so she has never said anything about it. Except once when we were fighting and talking about divorce and she made a comment about how she would stay in the house and that I would not be able to afford it on my own. That is absolutely not true and even if it were, I am not staying married for financial reasons.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Staying for years with a frigid wife because of financial reasons isn’t smart. They’ll just take more from you.
Being married is sounding more and more awful to me. Someone is really gonna have to blow me away to get me there again. And blowing me and pretending to love it isn’t my idea of blowing me away.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> Staying for years with a frigid wife because of financial reasons isn’t smart. They’ll just take more from you.
> Being married is sounding more and more awful to me. Someone is really gonna have to blow me away to get me there again. And blowing me and pretending to love it isn’t my idea of blowing me away.


Smart man. I wouldn't get married again. Too much risk saying "I do"


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