# Nudity.



## SoWhat

The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip. 

One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy. 
At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.

The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.

True or false?


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## that_girl

:rofl:

What? There is nothing wrong with seeing naked people in a movie, video game (ours has nude men and women), videos, etc.

Strip clubs are not ok in my marriage, but hubs was the one who set that boundary. he thinks they're seedy and I agree.

But your gf just sounds VERY insecure about her own body...and thinks if you see other women, you'll compare her to them and then leave her.

I think bodies are beautiful. Nudity is not a big deal to me when in a tasteful situation. I'm not into raunchy, neither is hubs...unless we are being raunchy together  

I'd just say your gf is VERY insecure. Asking you to close your eyes? LOL Are you 5? no. You're a grown man. And just because you see a naked woman, doesn't mean you're going to go jack off or leave your woman.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

hmmm, a bit insecure?
you going to jump the video?


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## ScaredandUnsure

False. What is the man going to do, jump through the screen to get at said naked woman? Your GF is really insecure. I closed my eyes at nude scenes and sex scenes when I was 7 and my mother told me too.


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## that_girl

ScaredandUnsure said:


> False. What is the man going to do, jump through the screen to get at said naked woman? Your GF is really insecure. I closed my eyes at nude scenes and sex scenes when I was 7 and my mother told me too.


I would peek between my mom's fingers. I remember seeing the guy's head explode or something in Indiana Jones...lol...I never peeked through again.

Sorry, off topic. But yea, she's not your mother. Don't let her treat you like a child.


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## SoWhat

Her response was that it makes it more likely that I will think of whatever naked person I saw in the movie when we make love (or I masturbate).

She said "You can think that's as irrational as you want but it's how most women think."

She's one of those incredibly beautiful women that every man gawks at down the street, which is why insecurity is so strange of a concept to apply to her. Though her beauty makes it no less likely, I guess.


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## that_girl

Well, I'm a woman and I think she's full of shet.

lol.

She's just insecure.


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## ScaredandUnsure

that_girl said:


> I would peek between my mom's fingers. I remember seeing the guy's head explode or something in Indiana Jones...lol...I never peeked through again.
> 
> Sorry, off topic. But yea, she's not your mother. Don't let her treat you like a child.


Oh I did too lol. Me and my brother would giggle our butts off too. Sex and nudity were funny to us at that point in time!


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## ScaredandUnsure

SoWhat said:


> Her response was that it makes it more likely that I will think of whatever naked person I saw in the movie when we make love (or I masturbate).
> 
> She said "You can think that's as irrational as you want but it's how most women think."
> 
> She's one of those incredibly beautiful women that every man gawks at down the street, which is why insecurity is so strange of a concept to apply to her. Though her beauty makes it no less likely, I guess.


I'm a woman, and I don't think that way at all. He's my S/O, not my child and I wouldn't tell him to do anything. If he did something that bothered me, I'd discuss it with him, explain my POV to him, but I wouldn't TELL him he had to do something (especially close his adult eyes to a nude scene). So would she make you cover your eyes if you where walking through a museum and zomg, there was a boob in a painting? I'm not making fun of her, I understand insecurity and self esteem issues, but sometimes some people go waaaay overboard.


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## tacoma

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


False and very very weird.
Extremely insecure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoWhat

She's a very religious person, fwiw, with an ex-husband who had a porn addiction. 

She's split on the issue of "art" nudity. She's okay with a few of my Gauguin paintings and not with others.


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## SimplyAmorous

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


Most women...uncomfortable ....yeah, could be...asking to close his eyes...I seriously doubt that one.

I say this with all seriousness, I would be upset if my husband didn't enjoy a little porn with me. No, I LIKE that a great deal (the softer stuff). BUt we have been together like forever - major trust there... we have even grown together in these things. 

I used to be too religious too in my younger years, what a downer it was on my sexuality -accually, we was missing alot of excitement, and just plain "freedom", I knew more about the do's & don't of conservative morality than I had an education on sexuality, which was a shame. 

I knew even then he used to look at Playboy magazines & his flavor of porn was strippers -had a few vhs videos, I never chewed him out really, didn't think too much of it ...

But then I would find him looking online (years later when we got a computer) & he would save pics of naken women, I did get a little bent out of shape over those things, cause I was still religious minded and basically we are taught that if a man does this, they are being unfaithful. I don't see it like that anymore- at all... We enjoy some porn, it has only enhanced our marraige, not hindered it.

And even back in the day, I loved a HOT Rated R scene, I would want him to watch every scene like that with me, it never bothered me if he got turned on , what generally happened is it turned ME on, and well, he was just thankful for that.


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## AFEH

I know women who to me have not so good bodies yet think they are beautiful. I know women who are beautiful and don’t think they are. Women are just crazy.


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## LovesHerMan

SoWhat said:


> Her response was that it makes it more likely that I will think of whatever naked person I saw in the movie when we make love (or I masturbate).
> 
> She said "You can think that's as irrational as you want but it's how most women think."
> 
> She's one of those incredibly beautiful women that every man gawks at down the street, which is why insecurity is so strange of a concept to apply to her. Though her beauty makes it no less likely, I guess.


It is perfectly normal to have fantasies about other people while making love. It does not diminish your desire for your partner in any way.

I wonder where this prudish attitude toward sex and nudity came from? Do you think her ex had a porn addiction because she denied him sex? I think she needs counseling to understand normal sexual relations between partners.


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## AFEH

lovesherman said:


> It is perfectly normal to have fantasies about other people while making love. It does not diminish your desire for your partner in any way.
> 
> *I wonder where this prudish attitude toward sex and nudity came from? * Do you think her ex had a porn addiction because she denied him sex? I think she needs counseling to understand normal sexual relations between partners.


Youi'll never know. It's from the past. Like a very old and mature wine.


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## Deejo

Given your presence here on the forums, and your other thread in the mens clubhouse, I'm presuming that you are having second thoughts about this relationship ... and I think that is wise.


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## SoWhat

She was a virgin until marriage to him. She said she never wanted to have sex until the last year of her marriage and by that point things had disintegrated to the point that he didn't want to sleep with her and had been having multiple affairs for a few years. 

She went to sex counseling afterwards. Said the counselor suggested that she learn to masturbate - which she did. She has a little vibrating massage toy that she uses from time to time. 
(I realize this is somewhat graphic and very personal. I hope I haven't given any details elsewhere on this forum that would compromise our privacy at all :-/ ) 

We had earlier in the day had a long discussion about sexual media - I had noted, while we watched some movie, that Americans seem much more comfortable showing a murder on television than a topless woman or bottomless man. She said that this is because people will be much more inclined to act on the sexual media; men will rush home and jerk off to the thought of a topless woman (and/or be more likely to rape) but will probably not rush home to kill someone.

I responded that men will probably jerk off the same amount, even without a topless woman in a movie - chimps do it, men in media-less societies do it, etc. 

I think she just doesn't understand the male sexual response at all. And it's hard to explain to her, because she gets very emotional about the topic - no doubt due to her ex's infidelity.


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## SoWhat

Deejo said:


> Given your presence here on the forums, and your other thread in the mens clubhouse, I'm presuming that you are having second thoughts about this relationship ... and I think that is wise.


Deejo, some of the threads have been inspired more by my brother's situation than my own. But yes, I am thinking harder about it, especially because of the potential for sexual dysfunction. 

She's beautiful, brilliant, is hilarious, and knows how to make me smile. She just is occasionally hostile to sexuality. 
It's hard for me to think about. Writing here, with so many smart, sympathetic people responding, is very helpful.


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## LovesHerMan

SoWhat said:


> She was a virgin until marriage to him. She said she never wanted to have sex until the last year of her marriage and by that point things had disintegrated to the point that he didn't want to sleep with her and had been having multiple affairs for a few years.
> 
> She went to sex counseling afterwards. Said the counselor suggested that she learn to masturbate - which she did. She has a little vibrating massage toy that she uses from time to time.
> (I realize this is somewhat graphic and very personal. I hope I haven't given any details elsewhere on this forum that would compromise our privacy at all :-/ )
> 
> We had earlier in the day had a long discussion about sexual media - I had noted, while we watched some movie, that Americans seem much more comfortable showing a murder on television than a topless woman or bottomless man. She said that this is because people will be much more inclined to act on the sexual media; men will rush home and jerk off to the thought of a topless woman (and/or be more likely to rape) but will probably not rush home to kill someone.
> 
> I responded that men will probably jerk off the same amount, even without a topless woman in a movie - chimps do it, men in media-less societies do it, etc.
> 
> I think she just doesn't understand the male sexual response at all. And it's hard to explain to her, because she gets very emotional about the topic - no doubt due to her ex's infidelity.


That would make sense from what you have described. If she is inclined to read, have her take a look at this website:

Your Husband's Sex Drive Is God's Gift to You - Focus on the Family


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## DTO

ScaredandUnsure said:


> False. What is the man going to do, jump through the screen to get at said naked woman? Your GF is really insecure. I closed my eyes at nude scenes and sex scenes when I was 7 and my mother told me too.


So you never go the beach or water park? Some of the women at those places leave very little to the imagination, and a hot woman there is just as much an attention-getter as a naked woman an screen.


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## DTO

SoWhat said:


> She's a very religious person, fwiw, with an ex-husband who had a porn addiction.
> 
> She's split on the issue of "art" nudity. She's okay with a few of my Gauguin paintings and not with others.


Okay that helps a bit.

She may be really strict on that stuff, and consider you sinning when you look upon the nudity. There are a few families at my church that don't allow anything "R"-rated into the home. But she has to respect your moral values as well and know "most women" would ask that really means "most women I know".

Also, some churches, religions, self-described religious people have unhealthy hangups about sex in general (not just a belief that it should be kept off-screen).

Is your love life with her good, or do you find that she's squeamish and uptight in the bedroom as well?

ETA: just read your latest post.

You're right, she just doesn't get it.

The vast majority of physically healthy people simply enjoy sex. She did not want to have sex with her husband until the end of the marriage (and I'd bet that came about because she saw him slipping away, not because she generated enough passion to overcome her baggage). So either she married someone to whom she had zero attraction (which makes no sense - arranged marriages are uncommon) or she has serious issues.

So, she saw a therapist, who suggested she masturbate. I'm guessing this is because it's common for women to not be in the mood until they are participating in the act. So, has it worked? Have a significant sex drive emerged? Or, is it just something she does because the therapist said to - and if so then what is her plan to overcome her baggage?

So, I didn't catch for sure whether you are married. If you are I would suggest immediate IC for her to see what's up - it's just so far out of the norm. If she's still really religious, make sure you go to a church that builds up the beauty of sex in marriage and is plain on spouse's sexual responsibility to each other (my Pastor is clear on this, but it seems that most shirk the issue).

If you are not married, I would seriously reconsider committing to this person. Only you can make that decision for yourself. If it was me, I would run screaming for the hills - I don't care if she is hot enough to stop _time_. Never forget that she chose her aversion to sex over her first husband; do you really think you are so much better that she will melt in your hands?

BTW, her emotionality is not due to her ex-husband's affairs - it's because she realizes her failure and knows it can happen again if she doesn't fix her issues. Granted, her husband should not have cheated, but the marriage was doomed regardless.


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## Lydia

I get how it could be uncomfortable for her... But I don't think most women feel that way.

I don't really care. Honestly, that's stupid. Does she think you're NEVER going to see another naked woman again? Really?

:lol:


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## ScaredandUnsure

DTO said:


> So you never go the beach or water park? Some of the women at those places leave very little to the imagination, and a hot woman there is just as much an attention-getter as a naked woman an screen.


Huh? What does that have to do with anything? Should I blindfold him at the beach? I don't care if he looks at other women, if he runs away after them, then I obviously don't want to be with him. Duh.


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## OhGeesh

Do you guys go to church? Seems like a purity issue more than anything else.........a respect for her not to see other women naked.

Nothing wrong with that.....I don't know how you justify to your wife that looking at other naked women is okay and good for the marriage especially if she isn't okay with it.


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## COguy

1. No I do not think the majority of women feel this way, though I would say many do.

2. Your girlfriend is insecure. You can deal with this specific problem but you will always be dealing with her insecurities, throughout the duration of your relationship. It comes out in situations like you mentioned, but also creates things like jealousy, depression, and self-concious sex. Wait till you're out of the "honeymoon" phase before considering spending your life or having kids with this chick.


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## SockPuppet

Lydia said:


> I get how it could be uncomfortable for her... But I don't think most women feel that way.
> 
> I don't really care. Honestly, that's stupid. Does she think you're NEVER going to see another naked woman again? Really?
> 
> :lol:


By the sounds of things, his wife would like it if he never saw another nude woman again...


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## SoWhat

Thanks for the helpful post, DTO. 
No, we're not married. We talk about it a lot. It's been part of "The Plan" for a while, but now I'm seriously reconsidering. The hesitation on my part is more about my feeling that she might have BPD than any sex-related issues. 

She seems to have a strong libido. She initiates sex about half the time.

I did not want to push premarital sex on her because of her religious convictions but she insisted (this was after some months of serious dating.)

That could be an act, of course, to make sure I don't leave.


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## Jellybeans

Your girlfriend way overreacted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

AFEH said:


> I know women who to me have not so good bodies yet think they are beautiful. I know women who are beautiful and don’t think they are. Women are just crazy.


Lol. We women ARE crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. T

AFEH said:


> I know women who to me have not so good bodies yet think they are beautiful. I know women who are beautiful and don’t think they are. Women are just crazy.


LOL...thank you


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

*Dean* said:


> Exactly like my wife. She has old fashion values.
> 
> Can't change it.


thats not due to values, its do to major insecurities and self-esteem issues.


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## tacoma

*Dean* said:


> Just checking for understanding. When I said exactly like my
> wife, I was talking about not wanting to make love after seeing
> another woman nude. She always wants and demands to
> be number 1. Not thinking about other women. The focus
> is always her. She demands it.
> 
> No insecurities or self-esteem issues with my wife.


That the definition of sexual insecurity.


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## IAMCIV

SoWhat said:


> Her response was that it makes it more likely that I will think of whatever naked person I saw in the movie when we make love (or I masturbate).
> 
> She said "You can think that's as irrational as you want but it's how most women think."
> 
> She's one of those incredibly beautiful women that every man gawks at down the street, which is why insecurity is so strange of a concept to apply to her. Though her beauty makes it no less likely, I guess.


Holly S**t, my wife is hot as hell, and is the same way... I'm at the point where I won't watch r rated movies or even pg 13 that may have stuff in it. It's just not worth the head ache. 

If I look away, she thinks I have a problem and have to look away or I will be unable to control myself or whatever, and if I look, why did I look? it's a no win for me. So I just avoid that argument, resason for her to leave me. I may have been the cause of some of her insecurities, I don't know... but I just don't go there. 

It may sound extreme, but I'm okay with going there to make her happy, because in reality, its a small price to pay for everything else that is working for us.


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## Sawney Beane

IAMCIV said:


> Holly S**t, my wife is hot as hell, and is the same way... I'm at the point where I won't watch r rated movies or even pg 13 that may have stuff in it. It's just not worth the head ache.
> 
> If I look away, she thinks I have a problem and have to look away or I will be unable to control myself or whatever, and if I look, why did I look? it's a no win for me. So I just avoid that argument, resason for her to leave me. I may have been the cause of some of her insecurities, I don't know... but I just don't go there.
> 
> It may sound extreme, but I'm okay with going there to make her happy, because in reality, its a small price to pay for everything else that is working for us.



Two possibilities suggest themselves in all of these cases:

1 Sh1t test;

2 Personality problems.

Both will get worse.


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## YinPrincess

I was this chic, not long ago.

When I first started dating and whatnot none of this stuff was an issue. I really was comfortable and secure - it never even crossed my mind that it was anything other just a movie or whathaveyou. In fact, in my early dating years, pornography wasn't even a problem with me.

Looking back, the insecurity started creeping in, in my second LTR (5 years). I watched my boyfriend, who initially had the freedom to do whatever he wanted, drift more towards porn - eventually becoming a full blown addiction before my very eyes. He stopped making love to me. Everytime I was in the shower, left the house, anytime I wasn't around, (and in the end, even when I was around) he was masturbating to porn. This damaged me badly. He no longer cared about anything else, and I mean ANYTHING. He didn't care about my feelings and I let myself deteriorate to the point where nudity in movies became a problem. It stuck with me for a looonngg time. I still struggle with all those feelings of inadequacy within myself. It hurt so much to know I was being replaced by broken women, whom I then started having an intense pity for. I didn't hate them - I saw they meant nothing and yet everything, and I began feeling that in myself. 

I left that relationship, and the next one would be nearly identical - only this time I was paranoid about letting that happen again. I was insecure and sure I had to be on the lookout to make sure I wasn't being replaced. 

When I married my husband I made it absolutely clear that porn was beyond a boundary I was comfortable with. Even though it has been an issue a few times, almost to the point of me leaving and never coming back, he understands I mean what I say. The insecurities grew as I learned he really could get off on anything - (once, a black and white newspaper ad with a woman in a bra - no big deal, but once I found out he masturbated to it, all hell broke loose).

I still struggle with this. When we watch movies I get sick to my stomach if anything sensual or erotic happens. I don't ask my husband to close his eyes, but if the scene doesn't pass quickly enough (and my threshold is admittedly low), I will tell him I feel uncomfortable. He gets irritated, and often trivializes my feelings, making it harder to get over because all I want is for him to understand how painful it is, even if it seems nuts. It's my reality, but fortunately I'm working on changing that. It is really hard to do!

The best thing my husband does is ask me if I'm ok when he knows something is likely to upset me, and he may even start a small conversation during one of these scenes, so he's looking at me, and I know what he's doing, and I feel glad that he is respectful - and guess what? I'm not as apprehensive as I was before. Don't get me wrong, I am still insecure, but how he treats me when I'm feeling that way is what makes it easier for me to cope with.

It's hard for me to remember how I used to be - unafraid, secure and unthreatened - but I am trying to find that person within me again. Thankfully my husband is mostly respectful, and for that I am grateful.

So I may not have been a big help, but I wanted to share my thoughts; unfortunately I can relate to your girlfriend's inner self, and I wish her the best of luck in getting through it. It's not as simple as just hearing "it's just a video/movie" - she is likely to feel invalidated and defensive. Try to be gentle. The more secure she feels with you, I think the more she'll relax.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphapuppy

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


False, but I'm pissed off at the entire film industry, the American public, and a lot of other faceless entities because of the double standard for male and female nudity in film. 

Bodies are beautiful and sacred and should be treated as such. They are frequently not. I agree with her revulsion at the way nudity is often used in films. However, closing your eyes will not make that go away. You have already bought your ticket and are supporting the problem.

She has a point but has made an unreasonable request.


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## alphapuppy

PS, what, like you can't fantasize about someone you saw clothed? Please. That's a crap rationalization for that request.


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## SoWhat

Thanks for that side of things, Yin.
I'm very sorry about the addicted BF and the resulting psychological harm to you  

The black and white picture thing is the problem. The GF thinks that somehow blocking out certain media is a surefire way to keep my sexual energy exclusively on her.

She - and I think a lot of women - don't understand the male sex drive. I'm quite a bit more turned on by, say, a half-second glance at the fully-clothed Brazilian exchange student from a week ago than by a random 5 minutes nude scene in a movie. 

Short of blindfolding me or literally emasculating me, it's impossible for me to avoid being stimulated by other women. I'm faithful, but I don't think that fidelity requires me to repress my sexuality completely.

I did have a fascinating conversation with her brother in law about how their religious culture (he grew up in the same denomination) shapes views on sexuality and gender relations in a pretty unnatural way. Add that in with the ex-hubby who was porn and infidelity-addicted, it's not difficult to see why she's like this. 

But I still think she must know it's unfair, logically. She's very very very smart. It's just hard to balance the emotional with the rational.


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## alphapuppy

Yeah, that makes sense. What does she think, spiritually, about nudity? Why is the body dangerous to her?


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## Tall Average Guy

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. *She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. *She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


Rightly or wrongly, this is an impossible request in America today, with Victoria Secret's fashion shows on television and advertised on billboards, underwear modeled in magazines and newspapers, and woman in bikini's in half of the beer commercials on television. 

To close your eyes at every media representation that is "sexually suggestive" is a deathwish, as you are very likely to walk out into traffic and steer your car off the road while closing your eyes.


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## SoWhat

She agrees that there are innumerable suggestive images in the media and says she/I just can't do anything about most of them.

In a movie theater or at her house, however, I do have such control. 

FWIW, I said - later, when we were in better moods - that I would close my eyes in such scenes when she closed hers in movies in which there are unrealistic depictions of men (rich, romantic, smooth-talking, emotionally sensitive, family-oriented, etc.). That went over with a eye roll, which was actually better than expected.


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## SoWhat

alphapuppy said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. What does she think, spiritually, about nudity? Why is the body dangerous to her?


Religiously, she thinks it's something that belongs in marriage. 
Her BIL explained to me that their religion teaches women 3 often contradictory things about sexuality: 1) To be sexually desired 2) To not have sexual desires 3) To get married and thus be able to have as much sex as possible.


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## anotherguy

I say 'false', but I think you are asking 2 questions here? 1) if most women feel that way and 2) if this is reasonable.

I dont know. Seems a bit extreme to have to promise to close your eyes.

I could entertain, if we were of similar mind, agreeing to restrict the kinds of movies we see, or books we read I suppose - especially if it was founded on common religious or other moral choices we might choose to adopt and felt important enough to formalize into a code of behavior. 

Though we have never talked about it - I can probably easily think of dozens of deviant behaviors.. illegal, reprihensible, amoral, that would be totally unacceptible to even begin to entertain through media. Though in my mind, is far different from a little booby in a video - it seriously is only a matter of degree so I can understand it. I suppose there is also perfectly rational thought process that sort of says you are what you eat, what you see, what you read, etc... and by consuming that sort of thing you are polluting yourself.

Not the boobies, exactly - but maybe strip club boobies because its really a trashy kind of thing to some people to flaunt sex in front of strangers for cash etc and there is no real need to drink in that sort of thing visually. 

In short - I think it too simplistic to simply brush it off as 'insecure' or wierd. Yeah - I/we have no problem with it - but the more I think about it - the more I think that is says more about me than I would like - really my indifference to the realities of what is socially acceptible in media or in general.

(I went to a few strip clubs when I was younger. Initially found them highly entertaining - eventually, I found them depressing, cheesy, and even disturbing when you get right down to it. Now, I dont think I would go even if 5 guys said: 'lets go!'.. I dont need it or want it.)

If she is otherwise comfortable in her own skin and with her sexuality, and yours... in private - then its worth listening to her position. Sounds like you talked already - and thats 95% of the battle. The remaining 5% (coming to agreement) is of course, the tricky part. Still seems strange to me, but thoughtful self censorship, or rather the refinement of what one chooses to consume is not a totally broken idea if that is indeed what she is considering and not simply screaming "Boobies!!" and fleeing the room. I suppose only you can decide if her position has merit.

babling...


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## anotherguy

Tall Average Guy said:


> Rightly or wrongly, this is an impossible request in America today, with Victoria Secret's fashion shows on television and advertised on billboards, underwear modeled in magazines and newspapers, and woman in bikini's in half of the beer commercials on television.
> 
> To close your eyes at every media representation that is "sexually suggestive" is a deathwish, as you are very likely to walk out into traffic and steer your car off the road while closing your eyes.


I think this is not too far from the truth in a tounge and cheek kind of way.

But I also think its not a 'deathwish' to try and raise the bar of what you choose to consume. Im not interested in letting Abercrombie define the conversation for me, right?

I order little things from Victoria Secrets for the wife once in a while so now I routinely get the catalogs. They must spend plenty of time on them with photoshop, because - they are simply flawless.


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## YinPrincess

AnotherGuy makes some good points. I wanted to add that context is indeed a factor (at least for me). Seeing someone deliberately depicted in a sexual, perhaps degrading manner is far different then say, a woman breast-feeding (it came up in a movie my husband and I watched and we both felt the scene was beautiful, not often shown and a unique experience to watch).

In the back of my mind I'm still thinking "he's looking at another woman's breasts." But tasteful nudity, such as in art, doesn't bother me as much.

It IS unavoidable for both you and her to experience in a day to day life. It's better if you both pick your own battles, you know? 

I'm glad I don't feel the way I used to - that's no place for your mind to be, and it speaks of an inner desire within to "possess" the other. I can see now how I used to be controlling, and I completely felt in the right at the time. It's a difficult thing to balance at times, and since I was also raised religiously I can definitely attest to it's influence on the shame one might feel in these circumstances.

Hoping you guys are able to work something out, and for her - I wish her the peace of mind and acceptance she needs. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating

Yin ~ it was interesting to read your posts.

Nudity for me, became awkward to a point when I realized I wasn't feeling secure within myself. I didn't put demands on my husband but I know that I used to cringe inside feeling insecure about my body compared to the images I was seeing. At some point I was able to recognize this. As for whether he was thinking of those images in his head later, this is something I also realized I had no control over and it was a self-inflicting hurt that I was causing myself by even thinking this way. 

I remember when he went to a high-end strip club years ago for work, as one of those "schmoozing with the client" nights. He told me about it and what went on. I trusted his boundaries but I felt torn up inside thinking of him looking at other women, and ignoring the debate about whether they're taken advantage of etc, I also know part of the reason I felt this way was because I knew my body wasn't in the kind of shape they would be in. I flitted between being glad I had an honest man, to feeling annoyed that he'd experienced this. I was moody about it. That's who I was back then. None of the other guys told their wives they went. For me, this would be worse than dealing with it within myself. But he also thought that I might enjoy going with him. He described it to me, and while slightly tempted, there was just something that didn't sit right and part of that was my own insecurity, so I didn't. 

Fast forward to burlesque. I decided this was more a celebration of the female form and more entertaining than a strip club to me. I was slightly hesitant but it was fantastic. Hubs was cheering the women on, right along with me. The women were all shapes and sizes, from large women with rolls of fat, to petite toned women. And they all looked very sexy. They had cellulite, different shaped bodies, they were not airbrushed or chosen for their 'perfection'. But they were seductive and beautiful and their acts were amusing. I think especially as a woman, this was refreshing to see. It really felt like a celebration of our beautiful figures, in all their amazing variety.


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## sisters359

I don't like seeing women's bodies being objectified, but nudity in and of itself does not bother me at all, nor does it bother me that most men like to look at it. I can appreciate human beauty and get turned on by attractive people, but that does not mean I have no control over it OR that my satisfaction in my partner will somehow be lessened. 

I felt differently when I was younger and insecure, so maybe she will out grow it. But I also think she is wrong to assume that she is, personally, able to speak for all--or even most--women. 

I would encourage her to work on her self esteem before this becomes a bigger issue. She can ask you to close your eyes if she does not mind coming across as an immature control-freak, but she should not expect you to indulge her boundary-crossing behavior!


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## chillymorn

SoWhat said:


> She agrees that there are innumerable suggestive images in the media and says she/I just can't do anything about most of them.
> 
> In a movie theater or at her house, however, I do have such control.
> 
> FWIW, I said - later, when we were in better moods - that I would close my eyes in such scenes when she closed hers in movies in which there are unrealistic depictions of men (rich, romantic, smooth-talking, emotionally sensitive, family-oriented, etc.). That went over with a eye roll, which was actually better than expected.


:rofl: that wouldn't leave much on tv would it.

dose she read romance novels?


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## SoWhat

She does not read romance novels, thankfully. 

(Aside: I do wonder about how we've fallen into the negative self-esteem and body image pit we're in as a society today. Overall, we're much much chubbier than we were, say, 50 years ago. 
If this negative body image comes from comparing ourselves to the "perfect" or "unattainable" figures in the media and seeing the gap there....will we as a society have more and more self esteem issues as the obesity epidemic worsens?)

Strip clubs ARE pretty depressing. I got dragged to one quite a few times by a friend who was big into that scene. Even went on a date with a pretty normal girl who worked there and asked me out. But the overall mood of those places is just so...sad. I don't know how the men there are able to call up the requisite suspension of disbelief for any extended period of time.


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## Tall Average Guy

anotherguy said:


> I think this is not too far from the truth in a tounge and cheek kind of way.
> 
> But I also think its not a 'deathwish' to try and raise the bar of what you choose to consume. Im not interested in letting Abercrombie define the conversation for me, right?
> 
> I order little things from Victoria Secrets for the wife once in a while so now I routinely get the catalogs. They must spend plenty of time on them with photoshop, because - they are simply flawless.


My point was toungue-in-cheek, but still there - it is impossible, in America today, to avoid sexually suggestive material. It is everywhere, and in public. 

I fully support the idea of the "watching what you eat" media diet. I do try and avoid movies with gratuitous sex (and violence) – both because of my children and because of my wife’s discomfort. But I can’t cover my eyes every time I see such material, because it is everywhere. I think a person needs to learn to trust their spouse to deal with it. The discussion about the issue was a good one, in that it sounds like they were able to share what their boundaries are. I hope they can work from that.

As I think about it, perhaps what bothers me is the idea that the OP has to cover his eyes. It sounds too much like a mother telling her child what to do. We do that for my children now (as well as a quick finger to the mute button). I cannot imagine doing that to my wife.


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## TwoDogs

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


Yikes. False.

I'm not uncomfortable with my SO seeing women naked, nor am I uncomfortable viewing female nudity. I don't know any woman who is.

That's either extreme insecurity or prudishness.


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## heartsbeating

That Prodigy clip was great.


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## MEM2020

SoWhat,
Be careful with how "enmeshed" you get with her. Not only is her request extreme - she is making a choice not to recognize it as such. 

Logic 101: The audience composition at most R rated movies is couples. The women attending these movies realize that many/most of them will have some female (and often male) nudity. Since they KNOW from prior experience their partners aren't going to shut their eyes - you can easily conclude that they (the female partners) don't have an issue with nudity or they WOULD NOT ATTEND. And they would likely discourage their male partners from attending. 

As for her first marriage I am curious about something. Does she recognize that her "dislike" of sex for all but the last year was hurtful/unfair to her husband? Does she recognize that it was cruel to entice him to vow to "forsake all others" and then deny him sex? 

In a more general sense - how capable is she of "putting herself in someone elses shoes"? 

I give people a lot of latitude "in the moment" if they are upset. Once they calm down I expect a much greater ability to see both sides of the picture. 



SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


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## MEM2020

Dean,
There is a big difference between not wanting to make love right after that situation, and demanding that "you" close your eyes. 

On a related note I would never gawk at another woman when I am with my W. She gets my focus and attention as it should be. If she asked/demanded I close my eyes in a movie - I would just give her a puzzled look and shrug. 



*Dean* said:


> I'm not an Expert so you could be right.
> 
> I love my wife, been married 28 years and it's not an issue with me.
> 
> I guess no one is perfect.


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## Dexter Morgan

SoWhat said:


> The GF and I were watching music videos from the 1990s last night. Nostalgia trip.
> 
> One that came on was "Smack My B*** Up" by the Prodigy.
> At one point, the video enters a strip club. Topless women were shown.
> 
> The GF freaks out and turns off the video. Cue long discussion about nudity in videos, cinema, art, etc. She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.
> 
> True or false?


I've run across women like this. And this same type of woman thinks its ok if they go to a male strip club, because "women don't have any intentions, its just good clean fun".
:rofl:


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## MEM2020

Dean
I have a lot of respect for you. And also your marriage. Your wife sounds great. 

I did not mean to seem in any way critical of your W in my comments. My intention was to make the point that she wouldn't ask you to shut your eyes - and you likely wouldn't be agreeable to that. 

As for your W insisting that she is your one and only - nothing wrong with that. She really loves you - and expects a high degree of loyalty/commitment. 

I apologize if my post was ambiguous. 




*Dean* said:


> MEM, What you write on other threads is good stuff.
> I'm sure it helps out other men. Keep it up.
> 
> Regarding my wife on parts of this issue.
> She doesn't have any issues watching movies or seeing nudity, etc
> She is great at detecting if I get horny seeing some Hot Babe in
> a movie we are watching. Sex is then out for a period of time.
> She wants me 100% focused on her.
> She wants to be the one to get me all worked up or horny.
> 
> She has always been like that. It's no issue with me.
> She never asks me to close my eyes, turn off the lights, etc.
> I always give her 100% of my attention. I'm very attracted to her.
> Think she has gotten hotter as she has gotten older.
> She knows how to drive me crazy in that dept.
> 
> When I posted early in this thread it was only to let the guy know
> that my wife would shut down sex if she detected me getting horny watching some Hot babe in a movie.
> It's wasn't common, but it did happen over the years.
> 
> Anyway....again no issue with me. I'm a happy camper.
> 
> Take care


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## SoWhat

MEM11363 said:


> SoWhat,
> Be careful with how "enmeshed" you get with her. Not only is her request extreme - she is making a choice not to recognize it as such.
> 
> Logic 101: The audience composition at most R rated movies is couples. The women attending these movies realize that many/most of them will have some female (and often male) nudity. Since they KNOW from prior experience their partners aren't going to shut their eyes - you can easily conclude that they (the female partners) don't have an issue with nudity or they WOULD NOT ATTEND. And they would likely discourage their male partners from attending.
> 
> As for her first marriage I am curious about something. Does she recognize that her "dislike" of sex for all but the last year was hurtful/unfair to her husband? Does she recognize that it was cruel to entice him to vow to "forsake all others" and then deny him sex?
> 
> In a more general sense - how capable is she of "putting herself in someone elses shoes"?
> 
> I give people a lot of latitude "in the moment" if they are upset. Once they calm down I expect a much greater ability to see both sides of the picture.



Mem, thanks for the post.

I think she recognizes on an objective level that 'disliking' sex with her ex was cruel. But she focuses more on his infidelity than on that.

She's not very good at putting herself in other peoples' shoes. She sometimes has a hard time understanding that other people have different preferences, dislikes, drives, and opinions. 

I'm a philosopher by training (though have fallen into another profession due to inclement job market conditions) and try hard not to come across as someone trying to set out syllogisms or arguments. I'm not sure if she would bother listening to me if I set out your (very sound) reasoning for why her position is extreme. 

Her sister is apparently similar with regards to nudity (according to the GF and her BIL). She's apparently a super-HD person - BIL describes himself as honestly "exhausted" sometimes - but is very strange about nudity.


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## SoWhat

I'm not setting out to make my GF seem crazy or mean or anything. 
She's generally wonderful to me and is incredibly intelligent. 

I think she may have BPD (which would explain her ocasional outbursts) and her views on sexuality actually seem to be close to the mainstream in her religious denomination, after further investigation.


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## MEM2020

SoWhat,
Before you marry just keep something important in mind. With someone like that - you run the very real risk of ending up in a situation where you deadlock over priorities. 

The classic is "sex isn't important to me - therefore it isn't important". All you need to accept with those folks is that "talking" is counterproductive. As her first H discovered - years of talking accomplished nothing. Her finding out he was cheating AND would not be pressured into ending the affair(s) was what triggered her desire for him. 

I am not saying your GF is bad. I am saying that with people like that - they behave much, much more fairly if they understand there will be a swift and severe consequence for crazy behavior. 

I am married to someone who has a touch of this. Easily dealt with - if I remain firm, calm and when needed completely ruthless. Not my preference to have to do that - but if I didn't do it when needed - we would be in a bad place. 





SoWhat said:


> I'm not setting out to make my GF seem crazy or mean or anything.
> She's generally wonderful to me and is incredibly intelligent.
> 
> I think she may have BPD (which would explain her ocasional outbursts) and her views on sexuality actually seem to be close to the mainstream in her religious denomination, after further investigation.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## applelemon

I know some girls like that. For this, I think it honestly has to do with how she was brought up. For me, I'm completely okay with nudity. I was raised in a home where being nude was considered natural, and comical at times.
I go to the gym frequently and I always shower, then change in the locker rooms. It's not like any of the women/girls in there have never seen breasts or other lady parts (or I hope so!), but sometimes I get some awkward stares from people.

I think she just has to get used to more nudity. Be patient with her and understand that some people are just uncomfortable with nudity. (Also, some women who have been through trauma can develop anxiety about nudity.)


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## Complexity

SoWhat said:


> She says she expects me to close my eyes in R-rated movies when there is nudity or sexually suggestive material. She says she thinks most women feel just as uncomfortable with their men seeing women naked and would make the same request (close your eyes, even if she's not around) if they had the courage to.


I find that adorable for some reason


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## COguy

It's really easy to be a saint in the first year of a relationship. The biggest warning sign of anything you've posted is her last marriage.

What makes you think your marriage will be any different? Do you know the guy personally other than what she has told you?


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## gonefishin

Take her to Europe for vacation during the summer months. She will get a crash course on nudity.

She needs to lighten up a bit.


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## SoWhat

COguy said:


> It's really easy to be a saint in the first year of a relationship. The biggest warning sign of anything you've posted is her last marriage.
> 
> What makes you think your marriage will be any different? Do you know the guy personally other than what she has told you?


No. 

According to the GF's BIL, who I trust a lot, the guy was often an a-hole. But he says he was a guy who "tried hard" but had "demons" and they remained friends after the divorce (which caused a huge stink).


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## cloudwithleggs

hahaha the op's is the funniest thing I have read in a while , she just sounds very insecure , could become a serious issue.

from the uk by the way


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## LoveIsWork

It depends on what has happened in the past. With my ex bfs I never cared. With my husband, however, I ask the same - that he turn away. The reason I ask this is because we had problems with him having fantasies about other women and touching himself to that instead of being intimate with me. Any little thing like boobs, underwear...wtv...would turn him on and he wouldn't wait for me to alleviate that. 

However, if a guy can watch that stuff without feeling the need to think about that women or at least go to his girl when his engine is started then it shouldn't be a problem at all.


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## SoWhat

That sounds so overwhelmingly controlling to me. 

Every situation is different, I know, so I'm not saying you're out of line or anything. This is clearly a delicate matter and there probably aren't any one-size-fits-all answers; 
when is it okay to 'alleviate' yourself and when do you have to "wait" for your SO? 
where is the dividing line between curbing 'mental infidelity' and being the thought police of your SO? 
etc.


I can't imagine having zero sexual attraction to anyone but my SO. I see plenty of sexy women every day, and am turned on, to a very real extent, by these fully-clothed women in everyday situations. I don't *act* on these impulses though. I guess that's what I think of fidelity as.


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## Enchantment

SoWhat said:


> I can't imagine having zero sexual attraction to anyone but my SO. I see plenty of sexy women every day, and am turned on, to a very real extent, by these fully-clothed women in everyday situations. I don't *act* on these impulses though. I guess that's what I think of fidelity as.


Well, different people will have different opinions on what "acting" on the impulse means. For some, allowing the thoughts of another to swirl around in your head and to bring them to the forefront, such as to fantasize about another, etc. is also akin to infidelity. I guess it is what you would call 'lusting' and that is considered a sin by many. 

Most women do want their husbands to desire them above all others, and to show them that they do.

But, your SO seems to have a bit of baggage surrounding this issue - for sure from her previous marriage, and possibly from her upbringing. Is she actively doing anything to try and work through this baggage? Otherwise, she'll just keep carrying it along and adding to it in your relationship.

Best wishes.


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## SoWhat

Good post, Enchantment. 

I don't know if she's doing anything to work through it. I don't even know how to broach the topic without upsetting her (but that's more about her BPD than anything else)


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## k-ci

All I know is that for women who are insecure, like me (at times) feel uncomfortable seeing other more beautiful naked bodies. I know i get very envious sometimes, it builds a rage in me... I wish I could control it sometimes. I mean I have never banned or told my husband not to look but I have explained to him my insecurities towards it and why I do feel this way. 
I beleive she is making that excuse to justify or rationalize to you her way of thinking. 
If she were plain honest she would probably have to admit to you or herself that maybe she does need help in her head and actually go see someone and actually need to do something about it.


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