# I pushed him away now I fear its too late



## hopeforbetter

Have been together for 5 1\2 years married fro 3 1/2. We were happy together and really felt in love for the most part. This last year after starting a business and feeling trapped with the money and the stress of it I have become angry, aggressive, nagging constantly.I started thinking my husband is not helping and worthy and started kind of hating him. We started fighting last summer in august and since then I have yelled at him, called him names, kicked him out, threatened of divorcing and everything else. The more I did this the more I felt him not loving. Then I started telling him you don't love me, you've changed, why don't you this and that. A few times I saw him trying to make it better or try to tell me things he felt but I would lose it, argue, fight instead of just listen and try to work on my own issues. So finally after some big fights lately always initiated by me, he did agree to go to counseling. I did not call for an appointment right away and kept nagging fighting, saying you don't love me and gave him ultimatums.
Result: This week he says I am done, I don't love you anymore, I have felt like this for a while now and I want out. He's not screaming or anything, he is calm and serious. He wants to be single and that's it.
He has known me since he was 18 and feels like he never had a chance to live and wants to try being single. He made his choice.
Being older with more experience (although clearly not that mature) I realize now that I have been the one pushing him away, putting all the blame on him and making myself hate him when in reality he never changed I was the one going through some issues. I do not want to lose this man he has made me sooo happy for a long time and I realize now it might be too late.
And, its like every-time there is a little hope, instead of just taking it and moving on, I keep bringing the issues back nagging giving ultimatums and making it worse. Totally self destructing here.
So, last evening we almost decided to end it right there and then without even trying because he feels like he needs out NOW!!!
I booked a flight for me and my daughter from a previous relationship to leave in 2 weeks. I later came back on my decision and said it would be ridiculous to change this child's life over night and ours as a matter of fact without even trying.
I have read about making a pact and suggested we do so. I wanted a year...it was way too long for him, he has an urgent need to get out of this relationship is what hes saying and honestly I have to understand. I think I would feel the same after what I put him through. We finally agreed that we would make the pact until August. Before the new school year. I forced him into it in a way by saying at least you will be sure not to have regrets if you tried.
So the pact is: From now till August 1st he agrees to try his best to make this marriage work and invest himself fully in trying to bring the love back. I agree to the same and that on August 1st if things are not working out I will give him his separation without any fuss.
I have set up for couples counselling starting this week, and I am going away for 2 weeks before I self destruct anymore.
I decided to join this forum because I need an outlet that is not my poor husband. I have to stop lashing out at him and stop pushing him away if I want to have any chance of winning him back.


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## Toshiba2020

It sounds like you have a rough road ahead of you but on the bright side atleast it isnt over. Im just going to be honest and say most men wouldnt be that calm and would have left a long time ago.

Make sure he is part of this journey, start by telling him how you feel, everything you posted here should be told to him. If you are willing to accept that you have made mistakes and apologize for them he will be know you are atleast half way sane, even if it took you a long time to realize it.

Im glad to see you are going to marriage therapy together, that will help with communication and trust issues. You might also want to consider going to some therapy on your own to work out personal issues, solving your issues instead of just lashing out at your husband will be key for making it work long term.

Also, take it slow, make it fun, you need to put the bad times behind you and start over. Even though you are married you need to go out on dates and really rekindle the marriage.

We're all here to help and we're only a post away.


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## hopeforbetter

Thank you Thoshiba2020
I am surprised myself that he is still around and fear that when he comes home tonight he might have changed his mind and move on. If he does come home without saying anything....I will zip my big mouth, stop talking about issues,this and that, stop nagging. If I need to talk I will post here or call a friend because it is surely the last chance I will get.
I know I would benefit from getting some counselling for myself to work on my personal issues which I clearly have. At least I can see that I do and start some self work. (Start by stopping the auto destruct)
I have been reading blogs for the last few days and it has helped me so much, but writing it is actually 100% better. I feel calmer and better already.
Thanks for the support


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## Plan 9 from OS

Hopefully you will work thru it all and make your marriage stronger. If you've been with your husband since he was 18, and you have a child from another man, I'm assuming you were a teen mom? Kudos to your husband for taking the plunge to be with you and then marry.


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## inarut

Go to IC it will really help. You're in panic mode, totally understandable but you need to calm down. Your fears are causing you to behave in the ways that made you push him away in the first place. You are right about not bringing up issues or problems. Just be together, spend time, do fun things, go on dates. Show him the person you were before you got all stressed out, angry and unhappy. Work on those issues with your counselor as well so you deal with it instead of taking it out on him. If he brings up relationship talk LISTEN and validate him. Take responsibility and apologize.....I'm sure you have but continue to. I really wish you luck and hope things work out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeforbetter

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Hopefully you will work thru it all and make your marriage stronger. If you've been with your husband since he was 18, and you have a child from another man, I'm assuming you were a teen mom? Kudos to your husband for taking the plunge to be with you and then marry.


Actually he was 18 and I was way older when we met(but look very young and was back in college at the time). My daughter was 4. We dated, the family accepted it. I never pushed him into anything and actually gave him a lot of liberty in the beginning. I was scared he would wake up one day and say, I've never been single, I have been with you since I can remember I need to be single.
Funny enough those exact words came out of his mouth yesterday.
I know I took a chance by marrying a younger guy, but some people marry young and still stay together. yes this is a factor but I think the biggest issue is I have been acting like a crazy nagging lunatic for the last year and drove him out of love with me AND the whole being married situation.

He did come home tonight seeming normal, he said he was angry but it was from work. I did not harass him with conversations, problems, therapy,anything. I texted him today that I had found a male therapist. (he had rather it was a man) and that's all we need to talk about for now.* I promised myself I would only bring issues when we will meet with the therapist.* At home, us when we are together I am only going to be pleasant, happy, have fun take care of myself.
I have our pact on paper but I don't think I should bring it up tonight. All I need is for us to sign it to make it official.

I just asked him to check for a good laptop I could buy for my business because mine is falling apart. I said something simple and cheap.(hes the computer geek) He finally started talking about how this feature would be better for him to do this and that in the long run. He's still talking about the future together like nothing is going on. I will take that as a good sign for now.


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## unbelievable

He's a bigger man than I am. When I'm done, I'm done. Promises of change, clouds of cotton candy, showers of M&Ms, and limitless BJs wouldn't get me to stick my hand in the same fire twice. Am I to understand that this guy was not only with you for 5 1/2 years but essentially was a father figure for another guy's child and this is the sort of abuse he took for at least a year? I wouldn't worry about bringing the love back as much as bringing back just basic human civility and decency. Would you talk to the garbage man this way?
Folks in a relationship have to talk and they have to bring up problems. You just can't disrespect and dehumanize your partner, that's all. The world is full of walk-away sperm-donor daddies. This guy stepped up to be a father when he didn't have to. I'm sure he's got his quirks but he can't be all bad.


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## hopeforbetter

inarut, 
You talk like someone who knows from experience. I agree 100% with everything you just said. This blog is actually a huge step in helping my focus all this craziness and panic into written thoughts. Today I wanted to txt him something that was kind of useless and would have just probably annoyed him,so I wrote it on a piece of paper. Very smart of me that was-Yoda
I have a few friends that are supporting me and giving good advice like, before saying something you will regret, write it down, or txt ME instead of him.


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## hopeforbetter

unbelievable said:


> He's a bigger man than I am. When I'm done, I'm done. Promises of change, clouds of cotton candy, showers of M&Ms, and limitless BJs wouldn't get me to stick my hand in the same fire twice. Am I to understand that this guy was not only with you for 5 1/2 years but essentially was a father figure for another guy's child and this is the sort of abuse he took for at least a year? I wouldn't worry about bringing the love back as much as bringing back just basic human civility and decency. Would you talk to the garbage man this way?
> Folks in a relationship have to talk and they have to bring up problems. You just can't disrespect and dehumanize your partner, that's all. The world is full of walk-away sperm-donor daddies. This guy stepped up to be a father when he didn't have to. I'm sure he's got his quirks but he can't be all bad.


You are right, I now realize this man is very special, he is more mature then any older man I have never met. And yes he's got his quirks but I have mine.
I am also the type of person that when I was done in the past there was no changing my mind but I really feel like this time it is my duty to make this work at any price. You just made me cry....life can be crazy, stress, money, responsibilities. I used to be soo happy just being with them, him and my daughter. The rest did not matter...that's how I want to be again. money career business, house, EGO...what is it all when you have lost the people you love????


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## anchorwatch

hopeforbetter, 

Take a look at these concepts. Pay attention to Emotional Needs and Love Busters ideas. See if they make sense to you. 

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


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## hopeforbetter

SHOULD I DO THE 180 at this point?
I read about the 180 last evening....So I was thinking should I do this at this point in my (broken) relationship or not? He did agree to the pact and to marriage counseling. He did agree to work things out until August 1st. He did say though he could not wait to get out of this marriage, was sure he didn't love me and wanted to be single. So as happy as I am that it is not over yet and that he is willing to try, it kinda looks like he doesn't really at the same time. Like its more just out of a feeling of obligation towards me and the kid.
Last evening, because I am giving him space, trying not to bring issues or initiate conversations, working on my self....I guess it made me a bit distant. I went to bed, did not try to say good night or initiate anything. I just did my thing like he wasn't there.Put my big body pillow right in the middle of the bed and just made a small joke about how he was hugging it so tight the other night that I had to just leave it to him... Well, he tried to get close to me in bed.Not too much but he was right there almost on my pillow that when i tried to arrange my head he had to move he was so close. I just acted like nothing and he moved away after a bit.
It got me thinking, wow I ignore him, live my own life for 10 minutes and hes trying to get close. Could this 180 thing work if I was to really put it in practice?
Mind you I am going to continue with the rest which is being nice, no nagging no negative, no angry no frustrated.
In a couple days we are going on a ski vacation...I will try the 180 until then.
What do you all think?


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## anchorwatch

No, the 180 is for you to move on and prepare that the relationship is over. That is used in the end. You are still trying to repair the relationship. That is why you made the pact and will go to MC.

Did you read the links I gave you yesterday?


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## anchorwatch

Get these books. Read them. Put the ideas into effect. Take them with you this weekend. Continue to be pleasent, loving, but not clingy or overbearing . No angry outburst. Plan A your a$$ off, it will give you a chance.

"His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" by W Harley.

Ammazo and B&N have downloads.


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## hopeforbetter

Thanks, 
yes I did read the link you sent me its very interesting and all makes a lot of sense. I even realized some of it I used to put in practice when things were really good between us.
Its funny how we just start taking things for granted one day and forget all the good, nice things we were doing at one point.
I will get some of theses books.
thanks


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## inarut

Don't ignore him. Engage him, be inviting without being needy or overbearing like anchorwach said. Do not act distant. You want to reconnect with him. You should have said goodnight, given him a kiss. You could have even asked him to join you, not necessarily for sex. Say something like ...."I'm going to go lay down, relax maybe watch a movie or something want to come with me? If he says no, say ok, smile. and kiss him goodnight. Then you say he tried to get close to you in bed, you acted like nothing so he moved away. You could have touched his arm, hand, done something to give him a subtle indication you wanted him to stay close. If he responds positively to that you might try turning towards him and see how he reacts. Take your cues from him in how he responds to your efforts. The thing is if he doesn't respond to these kinds of small gestures from you in the way that you want, you have to be gracious about it and not let it set you off in a negative way.. You seem confused about what giving him space means. It is not acting distant and aloof. Just don't be pushy, demanding or overbearing . 
[sizeg1]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


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## inarut

hopeforbetter said:


> inarut,
> You talk like someone who knows from experience. I agree 100% with everything you just said. This blog is actually a huge step in helping my focus all this craziness and panic into written thoughts. Today I wanted to txt him something that was kind of useless and would have just probably annoyed him,so I wrote it on a piece of paper. Very smart of me that was-Yoda
> I have a few friends that are supporting me and giving good advice like, before saying something you will regret, write it down, or txt ME instead of him.


Actually, I can relate to your husband. I'm telling you what could have made things right with me.

In another way, I can relate to the fear you are experiencing and how when it spirals out of control it makes you act in ways that are completely counter productive resulting in exactly what you don't want. I'm glad you have good friends around you to help you through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeforbetter

SO, here are some updates.
I was quite distant for 2 days but at the same time, we are stuck in the same house and I had to really detach myself to prevent myself for loosing it, lashing out ,begging or doing anything crazy. I kind of walked around the house for 2 days with my earphones on my head listening to music and doing my own thing. I had to. I made all his meals, asked what he wanted but really kept it all to a minimum.
When I needed affection last evening I cuddle with my daughter and the dog on the couch for a good hour...felt good. He was sticking his arm in the mix petting the dog, and laughing with us...I can tell he doesn't feel like giving me any affection what so ever but he still wants to be part of the family.
I wanted to bring up ''the pact'' but was unsure how.
He went out last night with his friends and came home a little drunk, so I asked him if we were still going to do the pact, and he said yes. I said I just wanted to know where I stand and if WE are going to make efforts to make this thing work. (I needed to bring it up because he needs to be making efforts as well)
So I asked if he would sign ''the pact'' he said yes, just to put in on paper. I said it is on paper we will sign it tomorrow and let him sleep. Today I knew he was going out early and we are leaving on our vacation tomorrow so it had to be done today because our time is limited. When he got up to go shower, I suggested I would make him breakfast if he could come and spend 20 minutes with me so we could talk. He agreed, I made him breakfast, took it to the bedroom, asked the kid not to bother us for 20 minutes we had to talk.
I started by showing him the pact, he laughed that it was on paper. He didn't remember me telling him last night.
*So,the pact saystranslated from french the best I can)
I...agree to do everything in my power to save my marriage from now till August 1st. Try to understand and give love to my wife and daughter, and express my needs so that my wife can work on meeting them. I agree to forget the bad things of the past and focus on the reasons and the love that brought us together in the first place. My part says something similar but also says...Also on August 1st if things do not work out I agree to separate and respect my husbands choice.*
We both signed.
Then I asked if he would look at the emotional needs from Dr Harley's and tell me which are important to him to help me bring the love back and I would tell him mine. He did not surprise me too much with his needs, I pretty much new what they were. He did express the weight issue in the physical attractiveness.(I knew it was important for him that I lose some weight) But I think that for him to see that it was something normal to want, that it was on the list and that it was even ok to have that as #1 made him feel like we are not the only people with theses issues. He said he liked when I made him supper but he didn't like that I just put him in front of him in the living room. He rather I give him his supper gently with a smile. I guess its nice to open up, I really learned some things and I told him about my emotional needs.We each had 5 different from the other..funny. I quickly explained to him what meeting the needs would do...very quickly, he doesn't love to talk for too long. 
Overall, good nice step. I hope he tries on his end. I will for sure keep working hard at this. Love what Dr Harley says it all makes so much sense.


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## hopeforbetter

Aarrgggg now this is where I need help. I do everything, house, my job, my business, taxes you name it. And if I dare ask the H for anything its usually NO. Then I get angry, then I ask him more agressively.... and he ends up not doing anything and Im angry, hes annoyed and we fight. 
I mean how long am I supposed to be all nice to him and he just goes around not loving, not trying, not helping. My blood is boiling up right now and just want to tell him to shove it and walk out. The worse is he seems to think Im sooooo in love with him and does'nt get that he really is not always the man I want to have around.
So anyways I txt him to ask if he would shovel the snow we just got 30 cm and are the only hpuse in the whole neibourhood with snow in our driveway. I do everything I am supposed to shovel smow too?? And I did it last week. He txt back: Ill see, maybe. Meaning NO!!! I was just about to txt him some mean things and call him to get mad at him. I txt It would really make me happy and I do evetything else. He was not answering... I was loosing my cool. I came here and started writing instead of loosing it on him. Well he just txted back that he will do it. WOW. Thanks for this forum.


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## anchorwatch

IGNORE HIM AND DON'T ASK AGAIN!!! DON'T REACT!!! IT'S CALLED $HIT TEST!!! 

Let the snow be. Let him climb over it. Stay calm and you'll win. Get excited and he can say "See, she hasn't changed." 

Get it?

This isn't going to be easy. Plan A till August. Get yourself calm and ready for the w/e ski. Make sure you look good and atrcative all w/e. 


BTW, how long till MC starts?


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## hopeforbetter

inarut said:


> Don't ignore him. Engage him, be inviting without being needy or overbearing like anchorwach said. Do not act distant. You want to reconnect with him. You should have said goodnight, given him a kiss. You could have even asked him to join you, not necessarily for sex. Say something like ...."I'm going to go lay down, relax maybe watch a movie or something want to come with me? If he says no, say ok, smile. and kiss him goodnight. Then you say he tried to get close to you in bed, you acted like nothing so he moved away. You could have touched his arm, hand, done something to give him a subtle indication you wanted him to stay close. If he responds positively to that you might try turning towards him and see how he reacts. Take your cues from him in how he responds to your efforts. The thing is if he doesn't respond to these kinds of small gestures from you in the way that you want, you have to be gracious about it and not let it set you off in a negative way.. You seem confused about what giving him space means. It is not acting distant and aloof. Just don't be pushy, demanding or overbearing .
> [sizeg1]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


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## hopeforbetter

I'm not so much confused, it's more just so difficult.I am someone who needs a lot of affection and he used to give me so much. Now nothing, I understand why, but I can't stand it.I try to be pleasant, smile, be nice to him, but really you have to expect nothing in return and that is exactly what I am getting is nothing.
How or where or what do I do to fulfill my need of affection. I try the dog, the kid, but it,s not the same. This is the part that is the most difficult for me. If I get ignored too much, then I tend to get angry, and would get demanding or clingy. And I have to avoid this at all cost.
Leaving for our ski vacation in a few hours, I have to tell myself not to expect anything or else I might get very disappointed.
Good week-end all!!!


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## inarut

You either really want this and are willing to work for it or you don't. You haven't exactly behaved in a way that would make him want to please you or or give you affection. Imo, this is the time to put your needs on hold. It's time to prove to him you are not going to be that same old person he wants to get away from. That's not to say you don't have valid issues regarding your husband. I am not saying he is perfect and everything is your fault. I am not saying you shouldn't express your wants, thoughts or feelings but you are still* really **struggling* with the ability to communicate without lashing out in a nasty, critical, demeaning way. I'm going to be honest here, in your first post I really believed you wanted to fix this, now all I hear is me,me,me,me.


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## hopeforbetter

Inarut, It's good to have someone else's opinion. Thanks. 
I guess I do want this, I'm not always 100% sure. I mean my husband is far from being perfect to. Right now I am the one making all the efforts to change, but hes making no effort about anything. I am not always the one starting the fights and sometimes I do everything perfect and he's being the big baby. Im starting to think at the end of this pact Im going to be the one saying bye bye if he doesnt start owning to his part as well. Maybe once we start therapy he will have do do some work on his part. I am more than confused now. How to fix things when your both really starting to hate eachother.


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## bandit.45

hopeforbetter said:


> Inarut, It's good to have someone else's opinion. Thanks.
> I guess I do want this, I'm not always 100% sure. I mean my husband is far from being perfect to. Right now I am the one making all the efforts to change, but hes making no effort about anything. I am not always the one starting the fights and sometimes I do everything perfect and he's being the big baby. Im starting to think at the end of this pact Im going to be the one saying bye bye if he doesnt start owning to his part as well. Maybe once we start therapy he will have do do some work on his part. I am more than confused now. How to fix things when your both really starting to hate eachother.


I'm confused. At the beginning of this thread you said you were the one who changed but he didn't and he didn't deserve your nagging and bashing. 

So why should he go to couinseling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TOMTEFAR

hopeforbetter said:


> I'm not so much confused, it's more just so difficult.I am someone who needs a lot of affection and he used to give me so much. Now nothing, I understand why, but I can't stand it.I try to be pleasant, smile, be nice to him, but really you have to expect nothing in return and that is exactly what I am getting is nothing.
> How or where or what do I do to fulfill my need of affection. I try the dog, the kid, but it,s not the same. This is the part that is the most difficult for me. If I get ignored too much, then I tend to get angry, and would get demanding or clingy. And I have to avoid this at all cost.
> Leaving for our ski vacation in a few hours, I have to tell myself not to expect anything or else I might get very disappointed.
> Good week-end all!!!


Please remember that he was the one that checked out. He has, in his mind, moved out from you for some time.

You need to give hime some time. Stay your path and do good things for him. Meet his 5 things he stated and do what you can to make him feel good.

He needs time to go from where he is now to where you want him to be. It's not easy for him to just open up. Have patience.


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## TOMTEFAR

hopeforbetter said:


> Aarrgggg now this is where I need help. I do everything, house, my job, my business, taxes you name it. And if I dare ask the H for anything its usually NO. Then I get angry, then I ask him more agressively.... and he ends up not doing anything and Im angry, hes annoyed and we fight.
> I mean how long am I supposed to be all nice to him and he just goes around not loving, not trying, not helping. My blood is boiling up right now and just want to tell him to shove it and walk out. The worse is he seems to think Im sooooo in love with him and does'nt get that he really is not always the man I want to have around.
> So anyways I txt him to ask if he would shovel the snow we just got 30 cm and are the only hpuse in the whole neibourhood with snow in our driveway. I do everything I am supposed to shovel smow too?? And I did it last week. He txt back: Ill see, maybe. Meaning NO!!! I was just about to txt him some mean things and call him to get mad at him. I txt It would really make me happy and I do evetything else. He was not answering... I was loosing my cool. I came here and started writing instead of loosing it on him. Well he just txted back that he will do it. WOW. Thanks for this forum.


I think you should just ask him to do stuff that you want in the following format:

It would make me really happy if you would ...
It would make me feel loved if you would...

Then just mention it once and don't ever nag or pick it up again.

Do this for a few weeks and see if he changes.


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## Toshiba2020

TOMTEFAR said:


> I think you should just ask him to do stuff that you want in the following format:
> 
> It would make me really happy if you would ...
> It would make me feel loved if you would...
> 
> Then just mention it once and don't ever nag or pick it up again.
> 
> Do this for a few weeks and see if he changes.


Agreed. ASK him, dont command or demand it from him or say "if you shovel the snow i will do the dishes" often we forget our spouse does a great deal of work and feel they are passing their work off on us when in all reality both partners are busy.

Be patient with him, its only been a few days, this will take quite some time, you arent going to repair your marriage in a couple days, this will take months even years. If everything goes well the only thing you may accomplish by Aug 1st is getting him to continue trying and stick with the marriage, even though the marriage ist 100% but then again, no marriage is.

Keep working at it and like you did last time, post here when youre mad instead of lashing out at him. Keep us all updated on how its going.


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## hopeforbetter

Thank you again everybody for such great insight. 
We went on our little family ski trip and had a great time. I mean it was not a lovey dovey week-end at the mountains but it was a very enjoyable, united family week-end where everybody got along. Things are feeling a little better, I am still trying all my best to be positive , I feed him and do the house work with a smile, because that is something that is important to him. I don't nag....I get a little hug once in a while.
He seems to value me as a friend again, last week he just looked at me like I was....nothing. We have a first date for our marriage counseling on the 15th and he seems ok with that. Hes going to make time for it. He told me over the holiday that he liked things comfortable and if his marriage was to be comfortable he would most likely want to stay in it. I had to reply: I like things that are great, comfortable is not enough for me.... I mean, I just hope that one day our marriage could be great again as it once was.
Over the holiday also, one night while we were in the hotel, I was reading my thread and he asked me what it was because he has seen me on here a bit, and I usually say its my marriage forum that I go to for support and that its private. So anyways he asked me if he could read it. I was really unsure. Finally I let him read the whole thread. I felt a bit violated because this was my escape and support when things were at the worst, but anyways. He was happy he read it he said he understood more things. He actually became a bit nicer after reading this. I wish I could read all his deepest thoughts as well, but I'm guessing I will get to hear some of it when we do go to marriage counseling.
We went out a few times on our holiday just the 2 of us of dinner and to play pool, had a very good time. Sorry no juicy stories this week, and I am quite drained as well, I feel a bit of sickness coming up after all this stress. I am leaving on Tuesday for 11 days, going across the country to see a girlfriend and am leaving them H and kid alone. I have never done that before. I figure I need and deserve a little time just for me, I just hope they can manage while I'm gone.
I will keep you all posted.
I hope this can help other people, it sure is helping me so far, all the comments I read and take very seriously


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## hopeforbetter

Things are, were going really well. We had a bit of drama yesterday. We were both tired ( me from working night shift, H from going out all week- end). We were supposed to spend the day all together before I leave and I expected more I guess so I brought up a few issues. I got a bit mad/sad we had a few conversations. Did not bring the love back thats for sure, but also I managed to stop it before I did too much damage. He was just starting to like me again. It is very difficult at times. Doing everything to make your H love you again... but he still can keep doing whatever he feels like. I mean what started all this is I was sick of his ways to begin with and nagged him so much about it that I pushed him away. 
I get the whole lead by example, If I act all nice it helps and then he starts acting all nice. Just have to keep reminding myself and keep working on myself as well. 
Spring is here!!!


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## MrQuatto

Before the 2 of you go to counseling, I think you need individual counseling to determine why you are as demanding as you are. You know and admit your pushing him away and yet continue to do everything to continue to do that. THAT is a basic problem that needs solved before there is any hope of recovery.


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## hopeforbetter

Thanks Mrquatto for your insight. 
I am working really hard right now to save the marriage and change those bad habits I did'nt even realize I had. I have been thinking lately that I do need to get counseling for myself. I guess I just realized how pushy and demanding I can be. I don't know though, I also wonder if I am as well.I think there is a lot of agressivity in me. I also feel like I am getting nothing out of the relationship sometimes. Yes I have been a B to him all year but there are reasons that drove me to it. The H is also not perfect. But, I am the one who wants to make it work. I guess he does too in a way. We both had such a hard year. I started a business and had a lot of struggles and stress related to debt. He just started his career and realized it was not as wonderfull as he thought it would be. I have no friends in this city that I hate. And, my baby is growing... she doesnt need me as much anymore. 
If your reading this right now you are probably thinking I'm all over the place, jumping from one thing to another. 
Well, imagine how my mind is right now. Its a mess. Dunno what I want, what I want to do. I am drained, sad, mad. In love and heartbroken but at the same time unsure. I also feel alone, overwhelmed. Most if all I am scared I am going to finally give it my all , and end up heartbroken in the end. That is a very frustrating, scary thought. 
I have been gone for 5 days now and never been so lost and confused.


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## hopeforbetter

I can't do it anymore. Its just too much. How the hell I am supposed to go through grieving every single day, crying feeling unloved...for how long? Shouldn't I just call it quits and grieve only once. It is really just too hard. It is like a heartbreak, but every single day. Hopes get raised a little bit just to get crushed again. I cant cope with this anymore. I want to just leave to protect whats left of my heart. Call me selfish again...Actually I have been giving everything to this family, for my husband, and its never enough, he is never satisfied. I cant be the women he can love, his standards are too high, I can never meet them. I can be thin, I can stop nagging, I can make more money then him and still manage to clean the house and do everything else he seems to think a woman should do, he will never be satisfied.I am so scared my heart will be crushed again and again and maybe he just doesn't deserve me. If he can't appreciate what I am, maybe I just need to go.


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## VermisciousKnid

His standards are too high? What exactly, has he been demanding of you? Reading your story it seems that he demands respect and you can't bring yourself to do that and have somehow reached the conclusion that you are too good for him. It is puzzling to me.


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## hopeforbetter

VermisciousKnid said:


> His standards are too high? What exactly, has he been demanding of you? Reading your story it seems that he demands respect and you can't bring yourself to do that and have somehow reached the conclusion that you are too good for him. It is puzzling to me.


Make more money, work more, take care of the house, the discipline, the bills, the car. Workout more, run more, loose more weight.Let him go out every week end without ever saying anything about it. Not complain if he is too tired to do anything with us after going out all week-end. Do groceries, run errands cook meals and run my business, while Im also working as a nurse AND never ask him for help with the business, but take ALL the criticism when it comes to the business, my cooking or anything else that i do. Never expect a thanks or a compliment. Give him all the liberty he needs, do not ask for too much of his time. Never ask for anything as a matter fact it aggravates him. If hes tired or hungry and he snaps for no reason, I need to not answer back, and not expect too much of an excuse even if he realizes that hes wrong. I on the other hand need to apologize for just breathing too loud.
So yes, I disrespected him, and I'm sorry for it


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## VermisciousKnid

I see what you have been doing, which you ASSUME he expects of you but I don't get where he verbalized that you should do that. Did you ever ask him what he expects of you and tell him what you expect of him? You can't assume that he thinks the same way you do. Men think about things differently. 

In my marriage, my wife is opinionated and she assumes that I share her opinions in all cases which I don't. So she makes unilateral decisions that affect me and doesn't understand why I resent it. She gets angry and says, "Well, I did this and this and this and you don't thank me" and my response is "I didn't want you to do that and I didn't ask you to do that and you disrespect me by not considering my feelings about those things."


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## hopeforbetter

He verbalizes this all the time. He tells me. Never a positive comment or compliment comes out of his mouth. Its always how he makes the money and he is sooo great, and I should be doing all of above mentioned better because it is never to his standard. But he is the laziest person I know. Will not take the garbage out, remove the snow or mow the lawn unless he is asked...multiple times. And now, well he doesn't love me anymore. So on top of the no appreciation, I am getting no love, no affection. 
I know the reason he stopped loving me is all because of RESPECT. I stopped respecting him, he stopped loving me. I just don't think any amount of respect is going to bring anything back now. And how I am supposed to show respect to a man who has no appreciation what so ever for who I am and what I do. What is the point???


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## VermisciousKnid

Why did you begin this thread saying that you pushed him away? It sounds like you were building resentment before you started being mean to him.


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## hopeforbetter

Yes I was.
The resentment I guess started when I had a lot of trouble with my business and this caused me to have financial issues. I had just lost 25 thousand dollars that my dad had put with all his faith in the business, 3 moves in one year, plus opening and losing a store inside of 3 months. A large loan debt, having to start working as a nurse in a different language in a different province.( I am french Canadian) So I hoped that he would give me a little bit of support as I was doing ALL of this on my own, and whenever I would ask him for anything he would say, its your problem, its your business I am not helping you. I was going through probably the worst moment, the most stress of my whole life and he did not want to help or support me. I never had a cent left for myself, and was still paying my part of the bills and everything else. He would take all of his extra money and buy himself toys and gifts and computers and what not. Just the fact that he would not support me in anyway created a lot of resentment and that's when it all started for me. I was so stressed and overwhelmed with everything and had to still take care of everything in the house and what not. So I started resenting and hating him, and I guess not respecting him so much and...then it takes us a year later to my first post. 
Soo of course after all my pushing him away he eventually said, I'm not happy I don't love you anymore I want out. He's only 24. He is used to getting everything he wants and needs and having everything done for him. Plus my love and respect. 

So of course, I right away did a whole introspection and realized I had pushed him away with all this disrespect over the year. (Doesn't mean he did or did not deserve some of it) And then got scared of losing my marriage, and felt sad to know he didn't love me. That was a few weeks? A month ago? Well, now I am at the point where I said I will do everything, make efforts, treat him with respect, change myself, answer his needs. And as I am doing this, and getting none of my needs met and still nothing seems like it will ever change on his part, I feel like I can't do it anymore. Does he really deserve me? And now you have the 2 sides of the story. 

And as much as he said he will try, although he says I forced him into trying and signing the pact. He is going out all the time now, helping his buddy hit on girls and get numbers, not really being especially nice to me...it just feels like he is moving on, and I am just there making a fool of myself and risking getting hurt more. I also sometime wonder if in the end he was to decide to finally want to stay in the marriage, if I would really be happy if things stayed the same.


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## anchorwatch

Sorry, Hope. 

You can improve yourself on your own, but you can't improve your relationship alone. Don't take the disrespect. You're better than that.


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## hopeforbetter

Hello Everybody
I am back..after being gone for 11 days I came back home and things felt awesome. Husband is super nice, we spend a great week-end, have sex spend a romantic date night talking.No fighting at all everything is superb.
This morning (monday) we go to our first marriage counseling together. The therapists asks us about our issues, I tell him how things are so much better now, that we seem to be getting along so much better and it looks lke its only minor communication issues. The therapist even seems to think we dont need that much counseling and to just work on a few communication problems.
So we get out of there, walking to the truck still talking and laughing, so I finally ask him a question about what is his biggest issue in the relationship. He says, well I told you before, I JUST DON'T LOVE YOU. And I just lost it, started crying, I thought things were going better...he has been saying some things...totally misleading me. So it led to a bit of an argument, and me asking why hes trying and hes just saying well we made the pact, but in my heart I am unhappy and I just don't love you. The only reason hes happier theses days is because he finally told me he doesn't love me anymore. So I told him we might as well just separate now then...hes just going to keep breaking my heart and stretch this over for no reason!!!
I guess in a way to he's probably building resentment towards me because he feels pressured and trapped.
Really....what a mess.


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## hopeforbetter

I wanted to add also, he doesn't say what is wrong...he has said some things before like the nagging, my weight (20 pounds extra). But if I ask him he says, I am pretty, I am a nice person. He just feels unhappy in his heart to know that he is stuck with me. He says he has changed and that's why he doesn't love me anymore. I've tried telling him this is a common thing in marriages, and that he will probably end up the same way with someone else in the long run.
He told me today, even if I lost 30 pound, even if we never had an argument, fight again, had the best relationship, laughed and everything was great, he still would not want to be with me because he doesn't feel it and doesn't think it's possible to ever feel it again.


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## anchorwatch

That wasn't cool leading you on. Doesn't he realize he is jerking you around. Why is he staying around, out of pity? 

I'm sorry Hope, I would start to detach. Consider the 180 to protect yourself.


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## inarut

I'm so sorry hope....let him go. Tell him to forget the pact. I would separate as fast as I could. His words had to cut deep. You can't work on things with a man who says he doesn't love you and never will again no matter what you do or what improvements you make. Don't put yourself through that. I don't care what mistakes you made...he made mistakes too. You need to put yourself first now.

Do you think he is trying to punish you? Unacceptable. 
His words and actions seem very contradicting. Given some time and space he may re evalute things, begin to feel and see things differently. Don't focus on this though. Focus on you, continue IC and get yourself happy again. See what happens....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeforbetter

Well like I said, I mean a month ago when this all started he did say he didn't love me anymore and he wanted out. That is why we made this pact. Today he admitted that things were way better since I came back, but he said I still don't feel anything for you so I don't think it will ever come back. I don't know how fast he thinks this flame is supposed to reignite. From what I read it can take a long time. I mean I knew he didnt love me he told me only a few weeks ago, I should have expected it. He said hes doing these nice things and giving me affection to hold his part of the pact. Then he said if your going to be mad in the end and Im just going to break your heart even more maybe its better I dont do this anymore. Personally, I have no clue. I wanted to leave just there and then. But, then I asked if we can just keep our word and give it a try till August. Its not like we can do much right away anyways. 
I was really upset that we had just spent an hour at MC talking about nothing when he could have mentioned that. Maybe the couselor woild have had some appropriate advice on that. 
I did call the counselor back. Funny my husband is the one that asked that we see him again as soon as possible with this info now, and told me to call him The counselor only wanted to see us again in 3 weeks. 
What does he think the faster we go talk about him not loving me now, the faster it will be over. 
Anyhow. The counselor called me back and left a message. He said something about him rebelling. Told me to let him open up and listen and be patient and not push him into conversation. 
Well guess what? I will not be having anymore relationship conversations with this (kid) man. 

After he came home from work he said he was very upset about our fight. I said what upset you? the fact I said I was leaving? The fact I ended up not leaving? or the fighting? He didnt know. That helps...

So we finally had a fun evening doing ninja tricks when I came back from Tae kwon do. I am ready for the 180 I think it might help me anyways even if we are still supposedly trying till August. I think he has been taking me for granted. So? whats the 180??? Link please. And thank you guys... you are all so awesome!!!


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## hopeforbetter

Oh and Inarut, kid , school year, money, family and friends on the other side of the country are reasons I cant just go like this. My girlfriend is coming over for a month and hes leaving in the field with work for a month. This might help and August will be a good time to move on if nothing is changed. 

He thinks hes going to feel butterflies or something, get struck by cupids arrow...


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## inarut

Sometimes I can be too quick in saying "leave" sorry. I know its hard and complicated. In your case I thought it could help to possibly bring you back together. I think you're right in that he is completely taking you for granted and still seems to have a lot of anger. I wouldn't bring up any relationship discussions either. I don't think your situation is hopeless. Using the 180 you can accomplish the same things while living in the same house. There is info about the 180 all over this site. I do have a feeling he will come around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeforbetter

Sooooo, I had to go look on his computer. Part maybe to find things that will make me hate him, and help with closure. I always feel like hes sneaky. He has cheated in the past, at the beginning of the relationship and I blamed it on the fact that he was young...which he was. So I just looked at the kind of things he looks at, you know did he look for an apartment and what not. Well it seems like his main focus of interest is to learn how to pick up girls, how to manipulate girls into sleeping with you, how to make a move, how to know when to kiss her??? Really???
I could have killed him...
He has clearly moved on and is only focused on his next move once we are separated I guess. It really hurt me. Just because when we signed the damn pact it was like, we both are not happy and have issues, you want to leave, but I want to try to make it work, would you agree to trying at least. He agreed and signed. Well this is not trying, this is preparing for the future, without me.
So I am moving on...I should have just kept it for myself and not confront him, but I had too. And he said...I told you I just want to leave and be single....Took him about 3 weeks to come to this decision and is not bulging. 
I know exactly what is going through his mind. He envisions this life of being so cool, going out meeting girls. He is probably already imagining his future with a wife and having his own kids. Something he didn't want or care about when we met, but I know now it is what he wants for the future as well. I'm not ready to have more kids, not to carry them anyways.. I'm getting old. I knew this day might come, the challenges of marrying a guy 14 years younger and we have been together since hes 18. Well I thought we could beat it, but I guess not. 
Breaks my heart, but its life. I thought this would be my last relationship, I thought we would grow old together....
He was the one that talked about marriage, about always staying together, he always said he would never leave me. I believed him.
Anyways, time to move on.
I told him, forget the pact, forget counseling. We will stay together until august 1st. Why he still agrees to this? I really don't know. Anyways, it will give me time to do the 180, in a last attempt to win him back, and at the same time start moving on. I'm healthy, have a beautiful child. I guess marriage is just something that comes and goes now a day!!!!


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## anchorwatch

Here it is Hope,

The Healing Heart: The 180

There are posters in the going through divorce and separation area, that can be of great help, if you'll post there. 

Best wishes for better times ahead.


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## anchorwatch

Hope, read the notes at the bottom of the 180 list. The list will let you step back and see his behavior clearly. What you will see in him is a reaction to your independent behavior too. It is normal for him to be confused or even jealous about why your nor reacting to him as planed. Do not get sucked back in to controlling behaviors, by FWB attempts or "what about me" whining. These things will not allow changes in him. D takes a long time. If you keep at the 180 during that time you will be better able to see changes in him or his true self. 

Work on you now. Stop blaming yourself. Yes you contributed to the relationship, but so did he! Start a new thread, with a link to this one, in the divorce and separation section. You'll be able to compare situations and get the support you need there.


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## hopeforbetter

To follow anchorwatch,s advice I started a new thread in the separation section.
Here is the link
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...11-still-living-together-but-trying-move.html


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## hopeforbetter

unbelievable said:


> He's a bigger man than I am. When I'm done, I'm done. Promises of change, clouds of cotton candy, showers of M&Ms, and limitless BJs wouldn't get me to stick my hand in the same fire twice. Am I to understand that this guy was not only with you for 5 1/2 years but essentially was a father figure for another guy's child and this is the sort of abuse he took for at least a year? I wouldn't worry about bringing the love back as much as bringing back just basic human civility and decency. Would you talk to the garbage man this way?
> Folks in a relationship have to talk and they have to bring up problems. You just can't disrespect and dehumanize your partner, that's all. The world is full of walk-away sperm-donor daddies. This guy stepped up to be a father when he didn't have to. I'm sure he's got his quirks but he can't be all bad.


I was reading this back tonight.
After two weeks of doing the 180, I am seeing more clearly. As much as everything I said was true. It takes 2 to tango?? And 2 to fight. I am older, more mature, patient. I am a happy person that loves to laugh makes jokes, comfortable in my own body, comfortable with myself, in public....
This guy at 24 y old is the grumpiest, saddest most negative man I have ever met. No respect for woman in general.Same as his dad was btw. I realize now, after two weeks of basically, not saying anything, being positive, happy, doing stuff I love. I realize that he is the problem in itself.Hes always pissed off at something.Hes negative, clearly has no self esteem. Always bothered about what people might say or think.No respect for woman, thus me and my daughter.

I have come to realize hes a bit of an a**hole. No wonder I was this way with him. He makes me miserable. Really not sure I want to make this marriage work anymore. tsss plus he doesn't love me, well great then maybe he does need to move on and go be miserable with someone else who he can make miserable as well.


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