# So complicated this sounds hopeless



## scotthew (Oct 18, 2012)

I very recently exposed my wife having an affair with her new business partner. This is quite a long story, but I did not approve of the business to start off with, because I knew her business judgment is flawed, but she started anyway (I’m her bookkeeper so I know what financials are). Her recent history in business lead me to believe this business would fail, because her financial skills are poor (and I had recently bailed her out of $50k in business debt). So it turned out that my intuition was right about this business; her new partner turned out to be a dud, and to top it off, she started having a emotional/sexual affair with him. She vehemently denied having the affair every time I brought it up. One night, she stormed off in anger saying she was spending the night at her friends house. I had a GPS tracker on her car, discovered she spent the night at her business partners house. Amazing to me, she quite forcefully denied anything was going on. Eventually I found out the hard way that was actually having sex with him, and she finally angrily admitted it.

She tries to partially blame her seeking the affair on my treatment of her. She claims she has been unhappy for two years, and that I refused to seek a marriage counselor until a couple of months ago. I can take accountability for some of this, but I can’t help but think her unhappiness is just a result of our irreconcilable differences. Her business is her life, regardless of its financial success (she’s happy if she has clients but no profit). She seems to want to hang out with her clients, whereas I have no desire to (mostly because of no commonality). Finally, she seems to have regressed over the past decade and wants to spend more time with old high school/college friends who don’t have anything in common (e.g. unmarried or live far away). I’m trying to make new friends in our community who have kids like us, but she makes no effort her self to do this and often resists when I do. I feel like she just wants to play with her kids a couple of hours a week, and do her own thing the rest of the time (watch TV or work too much given her low pay).

We have two young kids, and I feel like I owe it to the kids to try and save our marriage, but I feel this is almost hopeless. She claims she will stop the sexual affair and eventually break off communication. However, she claims she cannot immediately stop communication because of her contractual business commitments with her. I could almost understand that, but I continue to see her spend inordinate amounts of time on the phone with him (much more than I would think necessary to conduct business). To top it off, she continues to spin off into new business relations, that on the surface sound viable the way she describes them; but I have so little faith in her at this point,I can’t believe she just won’t go find a job. She is willing to see a marital counselor, but she doesn’t seem very contrite giving how much she is betrayed me both emotionally and financially. I am beginning to believe there maybe nothing that I can do to save her soul, and it’s time to move on. I’m torn between getting a at-fault divorce, not divorcing at all and working it out, and separating and trying to work it out. I’m just concerned I’d be wasting my time by not ending it immediately. She is still cold and distant, but claims she wants to work on it. I’m not sure if she’s just trying to go along for a free ride for a few months or a year before she just decides to quit. She says she still loves me, but I can’t believe she still goes to ex-partner for emotional support.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The affair is still going on...at the very least everytime she walks throught the door and sees the OM those emotions come flooding back.

Professionally speaking I would quit and stop working for her and the OM. I mean geez you are doing the finacial for a guy that slept with your wife. Who knows the busness might sink sooner then the contracial agreement. So take your losses and stop enabling this business to continue, let it fail!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Still in business with the guy she f*cked around with = still having an affair. She has no remorse. She is only sorry that you caught her.

Marriage counseling is a waste of time as long as she is still in any kind of contact with him.

You do not owe it to the kids to save the marriage. There can be no loving, healthy marriage with the person she is now. The kind of marriage you would have (room mates or opponents) with her would be harmful to the kids. Her life outside the marriage and family is her main concern - let her have it - let her go.

Forget about separating and trying to work it out. I have never heard of that being successful.

Get your financial ducks in a row and get a divorce. If you are in an at-fault area by all means cite adultery. 

Be sure you separate your personal finances from the failing business. 

Cancel any joint accounts and credit cards. Take one half of the money in joint accounts and open new ones in your name only.

Remove her from any life insurance and wills.

Start living for yourself and your kids.

Talk to a lawyer and get the ball rolling to find out where you stand according to the laws of the area you are in.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you have proof of the affair it might be in the OM best interest to forget about any contract and go off into the night before you rip his reputaion apart.

If this busness keeps going figure on the affair to keep going, so part of the consequences for sh1ting were you eat is the finacial back lash you and ur wife will have to suffer if she wants to keep her marraige.

BTW what is her deffinition of working on a marraige?

Coldness, distance and no sex?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Sorry man. JMHO. I'd never stay with a woman who demands to stay in contact with her AP after being busted. No way. I might wait for her to come to her sense for a while, even remorseless but being in contact? Not a chance in hell. That is my limit. It's cuckolding. She knew damm well whot could happen. She trashed not only her marriage but her precious bussiness.

File for divorce, protect youself financialy.
Protect yourself emotionaly by detaching completely of her.
The 180 degree rules
Take care of you children, she seems detached from the whole family, from the whole concept of family, start documenting.

Don't buy any kind of excuse she's trying to sell you. Ignore her rants. It's all on her. She's not original in shifting the blame, lying.. behaving like a spoiled brat. Cheater's handbook page 1.

Sorry you are here.


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## scotthew (Oct 18, 2012)

I do have to admit that I don't want her fail to the point that she gets disbarred (she is an attorney). That would mean she could not work in the future and would be unable provide child support. That is in both of our interest.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Marriage Rule for Men #2 - Never let your wife out earn you.
Marriage Rule for Men #3 - Never marry an attorney.

Cant' fix those now. Actually, your best remedy, whether you choose to stay or divorce is to take quick, decisive action to get rid of her. This may, but probably won't, have a positive effect on her. Occasionally, it works very well to end the affair and bring the wife back.

First, see the local shark men's rights divorce lawyer and start the ball rolling. This will pay off, either way.

Another thing to start on (either way) is changing the dynamic in your relationship, which is pretty difficult when the woman is the high earner. You've got to somehow get your wife's deferene and respect as the leader of the family. Your wife rates the OM as a higher value male than you. What does he do? Is he a shyster, too? What's he got that you don't have?

What is your preferred outcome in this? Reconciliation or divorce?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

scotthew said:


> She tries to partially blame her seeking the affair on my treatment of her. She claims she has been unhappy for two years, and that I refused to seek a marriage counselor until a couple of months ago. I can take accountability for some of this, but I can’t help but think her unhappiness is just a result of our irreconcilable differences. Her business is her life, regardless of its financial success (she’s happy if she has clients but no profit). She seems to want to hang out with her clients, whereas I have no desire to (mostly because of no commonality). Finally, she seems to have regressed over the past decade and wants to spend more time with old high school/college friends who don’t have anything in common (e.g. unmarried or live far away). I’m trying to make new friends in our community who have kids like us, but she makes no effort her self to do this and often resists when I do. I feel like she just wants to play with her kids a couple of hours a week, and do her own thing the rest of the time (watch TV or work too much given her low pay).


Wow. I know this is you telling the story, and not her--but she sounds incredibly self-centered.



> She claims she will stop the sexual affair and eventually break off communication. However, she claims she cannot immediately stop communication because of her contractual business commitments with her. I could almost understand that, but I continue to see her spend inordinate amounts of time on the phone with him (much more than I would think necessary to conduct business).


Yep, it's safe to say they're not chatting about business. 



> She is willing to see a marital counselor, but she doesn’t seem very contrite giving how much she is betrayed me both emotionally and financially.


Marriage counseling can be quite good, if conducted by someone who is pro-marriage (instead of just validating a spouse's right to 'find their own happiness' in the arms of another--don't laugh, we read about it here all the time). Also, you'd need someone TRAINED in infidelity--I can talk more about that if you need to, just ask. All that said, marriage counseling is a total fail while a cheater is in contact with their affair partner. A fail. MC is hard, unpleasant, work. Affairs are the fluffiest cotton candy. She will not give it the dedication she needs to while keeping her guy on the side. 



> She is still cold and distant, but claims she wants to work on it. *I’m not sure if she’s just trying to go along for a free ride for a few months or a year before she just decides to quit.* She says she still loves me, but I can’t believe she still goes to ex-partner for emotional support.


Maybe she's giving you a ride until she's ready to quit. But the truth might be more sinister. An astonishing percentage of cheaters have no desire to choose between their spouse and their affair partner--at all. That guy can't keep the books, and he probably doesn't have $50K burning a hole in his pocket to bail her out, either. And no one babysits the kids for her while she runs around town doing whatever the heck she likes--quite like you do.

No--she clearly wants it all, and right now, she's got it. There are too many advantages in this situation for her to quit. She's got a guy giving her butterflies, oozing with compliments and validation; and then mr. security makes sure the bills get paid and the kids get put to bed. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

There might be hope for reconciliation--but there isn't an ounce of that until she cuts off all contact with the OM. Until then, expect to be strung along at least until the children graduate from college.

And get the finances in order and cut her off. You may benefit from reading the book No More Mr. Nice Guy, because I sense that you struggle standing up to her at times. She has railroaded you more than once with regards to money, and perhaps with other things--and as a result she's lost all respect for you.


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## scotthew (Oct 18, 2012)

Let's get the stereotype straight - The attorney spouse has never made nearly is much income as I have, even in her best years. High paid attorneys is a thing of a bygone error.:smthumbup:


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

She cheated because of her, not because of you.


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## scotthew (Oct 18, 2012)

And to top it off...she is a divorce attorney with 10 years experience, which can make it a tad intimidating. But I'm almost getting the courage to make the stand. As I said, kids are the most important thing.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

scotthew said:


> Let's get the stereotype straight - The attorney spouse has never made nearly is much income as I have, even in her best years. High paid attorneys is a thing of a bygone error.:smthumbup:


Depends on the attorney. One of my clients has an XWW who is a _very_ highly compensated attorney. But if your WW is the smaller earner, she's not going to be paying child support unless you end up with full custody. Nevertheless, we can't let facts get in the way of the female rationalization hamster. So is this a side business she's involved with or is the assclown an attorney, too?

How long have you been together and how long ago did your sex life go in the crapper?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

scotthew said:


> And to top it off...she is a divorce attorney with 10 years experience, which can make it a tad intimidating. But I'm almost getting the courage to make the stand. As I said, kids are the most important thing.


Whether you keep her or not, I highly recommend that you read a book called "Married Man Sex Life Primer." The subject is how certain attitudes and behaviors can raise, maintain, or deplete a woman's attraction to her man in a LTR. A very useful little book.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

You see, thats why you in this pickle now.
The woman treats you like dirt, and you still defending her. How in the hell will her getting disbarred keep her from earning ??

You paid some guy 50k to **** you, and is still paying him now doing his books.
You CAN'T separate him from her money wise, so save it. Any work done for her profit him.

NOW, stop ALL work done for her business, and give her a time line. She either sell her share to him, or he sell to her.
In fact, you should put a lien on the biz assets for the loan and work done.

I just can't understand mature, life experienced men and women who KNOW, if a persons actions does'nt match their words, they are lying, but still refuse to take the actions needed.

Stop playing games dude, you are a grown ass man with kids, so act like it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are being utterly used and thrown away by this woman. And by her reactions, she has little interest in the marriage except for your financial contribution. Start divorcing her. If she is so remorseful, then she will earn you back.

She has very little going for her.

She spends very little time with her kids.

She had a affair and was continuously lying and cheating on you with her business partner.

She has shown little remorse and blamed the whole thing on you. has she even apologized once ?

You share no blame for her affair. She is a divorce attorney. She well as knew what to do when marriages don't work out. She is blame shifting the reason for her affair on you refusing counseling but how is having an affair the appropriate response ?

Entitled narcissistic cheaters like your wife are the worst kind. You are better off without her. Only your money is keeping her with you. She as a lot to change before she is even ready for a commitment like marriage.


What about her business partner ?? Is he married ? Have you exposed him to his partner ? Have you confronted him ? 

Going no contact with the guy she had an affair with is the least she can do. That is the minimum bare requirement. F*ck her business. They don't earn much anyway
. 



> She says she still loves me, but I can’t believe she still goes to ex-partner for emotional support.


I have a nice bridge to sell you. Are you interested ?

Look, don't even think about reconciling before she goes no contact with this guy. Having an affair is an extremely cruel act towards your spouse. Lying on top of that is no big deal. She is having an affair right in front of your face. Grow your balls and kick her out of the martial hoke immediately


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is still cold and distant, but claims she wants to work on it. I’m not sure if she’s just trying to go along for a free ride for a few months or a year before she just decides to quit.

She is exactly doing that. She probably getting her ducks in order and needs you financially..Trust me. That is not how cheating spouse who wish to reconcile behave...Stop wasting your time on this horrible woman/. Read the 180.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Another thing, if a cheater continue to lie until caught, why would you believe them ??
especially if the situiation dynamics are the same.

The reason she treats you so coldly, is because she has no respect for you, and hold you in contempt.
She cheated, lied, guilted you with the blamed for her cheating, and you are still begging her to keep you. Would you respect someone like that ??

Oh, a lil secret she won't share with you !! 
She is NEVER going to change or decide. She has the best of everything. A hard one at work for fun, and a nice controled damn good provider at home to keep her in style. Who will even pay off her studs debts.

My man, you didn't achieve the things you did, being blind, and avoiding the truth.
Put on your BIG BOY pants and handle your business.

NOT complicated at all is it ??


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## Serene1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I am sorry to hear about your situation. And I agree with Oldwolf. If you find yourself extremely confused, it is because you still love her, and because of loving her, you find that you are easily swayed by her arguments. She is an attorney and knows how to argue. Since she is caught lying, she must have been using fallacies. Check this site to confirm: 
Fallacies

For example, under "personal attack" fallcacy:
"A personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims."

She knows that you won in the argument that she is unfaithful, so instead of defending herself, she attacks you, the person instead, for not being nice enough to her. 

These fallacies are used in politics all the time. Learn them well, and recognize them, and know when you are being shortchanged. (but do not use on others).


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She is an attorney in a failing business with an assh*le business partner. What is intimidating about that?

Get the best shark attorney you can find.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'm sure she already talked to the local shark lawyers in order to make them "inelegible".


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Acabado said:


> I'm sure she already talked to the local shark lawyers in order to make them "inelegible".


Talking to them does not disqualify them from representing scotthew. If she gave them a retainer and hired them - yes, but consultations - no.

I'm sure if she is a divorce attorney, there are probably some local lawyers more than willing to represent him. Since he has access to her business records, he should be able to identify a good one. 

Is her business a legal practice?


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

She is ****ing OM on your face and you still want to work on this marriage..REALLY?

What happend to your self worth and self esteem. You deserve someone better man, not this **** women.

She is still in the A. Not remorseful, not on her knees begging for your forgiveness. She is not ready to quit her OM. The the thought of R itself is a BS.

She needs you for providing financial support and to babysit and she need OM for fun and excitement. If you are OK with this arrangement then R is good a good option. Else find a shark lawyer and file for D.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

As the wife who was having an emotional affair, I can tell you that continued contact does mean it's ongoing. I had to cut off all communication with the person for it to end. He even left his job to make sure we didn't run into each other at conferences and such.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

She is using you my friend.

The affair is still going on, even if the PA has stopped which I doubt.

She will cultivate these relationships for the rest of your marriage.

You should be divorcing her for the kids sake!

Her lying and complete disrespect for you would be a deal breaker for me.

Never, never, just separate, that is just a greenlight for a Fugkfest to a cheater.

We call her type cake eaters here, she is making a big cake but she is never going to give you a piece!

I'm sorry but I want to see you in a better place!

Take Care!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your being played by both of them, and to top it off your paying off her bad business choices is enabling the two of then to continue their contact and affair.

Attorneys are used to negotiating and consequences of choices.

She is having an affair with her business partner. Consequence - the business with him is over. No matter the cost. All contact ends.

Part of the negotiation stuff comes in here. He will accept this and walk away, or you will expose the affair and hurt his business and personal reputation.

As for your wife, she is willfully choosing him over your marriage and family. She has been caught and unabashedly demanded that she gets to continue having unrestricted contact with him. Aka continue the affair.

Your wife is a cake eater extraordinaire. You are going to have to confront her and refuse to negotiate. The affair and the relationship with the OM must end today. No other options, no other choices, no negotiations,


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## scotthew (Oct 18, 2012)

We went to couples counseling, and I think the marriage counselor brought out of her that she really is divorced in her head. She claims having the affair with the guy was wrong and a bad choice, yet I'm pretty sure the guy is still an enabler, and probably behind her decision to separate.

I made my stand, and she is unwilling to go no contact immediately, so I suppose as bad as I feel for the kids, it's in everybody's best interest to cut the losses here and run. She is a lost soul, and I'll just have to let her drown herself.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

scotthew said:


> We went to couples counseling, and I think the marriage counselor brought out of her that she really is divorced in her head. She claims having the affair with the guy was wrong and a bad choice, yet I'm pretty sure the guy is still an enabler, and probably behind her decision to separate.
> 
> I made my stand, and she is unwilling to go no contact immediately, so I suppose as bad as I feel for the kids, it's in everybody's best interest to cut the losses here and run. She is a lost soul, and I'll just have to let her drown herself.


If you are holding out any hope, it is very possible that once the divorce ball starts rolling, she will come crawling back to you in remorse/begging. If you are done with her then that doesn't matter.

From the sounds of it though, she's all up in this guy. You should cease all help with their business. If you act manly and decisive, and not willowy and weak, she may come around. She'll see you as strong and attractive. But you have to be willing to show her the door for this to work.

Trust me. Read my most recent thread for a long example.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

scotthew said:


> We went to couples counseling, and *I think the marriage counselor brought out of her that she really is divorced in her head*.


You'd be shocked how common this is. Oops, I guess I forgot to tell you we're divorced. In my head.  I suppose she's helped so many other people get divorced, she's a total cynic about trying to work things out? But divorce ain't _that_ easy.



> She claims having the affair with the guy was wrong and a bad choice, yet I'm *pretty sure the guy is still an enabler*, and probably behind her decision to separate.


Maybe she thinks it was a bad choice. Maybe. But she talks to the guy all the time, and you don't know what it's about, right? What evidence do you have that the nature of their relationships has changed? Her word?



> I made my stand, and *she is unwilling to go no contact immediately*, so I suppose as bad as I feel for the kids, it's in everybody's best interest to cut the losses here and run.


I know it's hard, but this is where consequences come in. You're not asking for the moon. It's eminently reasonable, nigh on charitable, to ask a disloyal spouse to stop all contact with a (former?? or current?? who knows) affair partner.

As Gabe says, do not be surprised that once Mr. $50K starts to really leave, that she comes running back. Steel yourself for this, because how are you going to separate her love of security with a true love for YOU? 



> She is a lost soul, and I'll just have to let her drown herself.


You've got kids. Air mask on you and them first. She's an adult, and a lawyer, she is more than equipped to take care of herself.


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