# Almost over...with a twist



## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

It's been a long time since I've posted. Been really hard at work working on myself and moving on with my life.

My stbxw and I separated in January. She filed in April. Got confirmation of a PA with a married co-worker in an open marriage in May. She filed a status quo order (doesn't let us change the visitation schedule we had established) and filed a child support suit after I had enough and lawyered up. Went to mediation, got nowhere, so I went through my attorney and drafted a settlement. She counter offered with something pathetic. I threatened trial, she finally caved at the child support hearing in mid September and we made a global deal. My attorney is now drafting the judgment. Not quite what I wanted, but way better than what we "agreed" upon in mediation and I can live with it.

A little backstory: in April I reconnected with a girl I knew in high school on Facebook. Our first official date was May 31. We've been seeing each other ever since. We've taken things slowly, but have really hit it off and are falling in love. She's beautiful, smart, kind, we have similar interests, the same values and outlook on life...I feel very optimistic about things with her. GF is awesome!!!

Recent events have left me more than a little confused. My stbxw kinda came out of the woodwork about 4 weeks ago. I began getting a few more texts from her. Mostly about practical things, but still contact nonetheless. It felt like she was trying to find excuses to contact me. About two weeks after the support hearing I told her that I will no longer have visitation with her daughter from a previous marriage (stbxsd = soon to be ex step daughter). This was about 3-4 weeks ago. Stbxsd is very moody, bossy, pushes my daughter around, unable to be pleased, is always in a bad mood....the list goes on. She's a lot like her mother, actually. I've tried working with her, but I only had one weekend a month with her (she was being bounced back and forth between me, her mother, and her biological father) and I felt like it was unhealthy for her to spend so much time away from her primary residence and being bounced back and forth between so many places. I finally told stbxw enough is enough and that stbxsd needs to spend time with her biological parents. Stbxw resisted that a great deal, tried to guilt trip me into believing otherwise. She asked if I would be willing to switch the weekends I had our daughter so the two girls could spend a weekend together. I stood my ground and said I'm not okay with that; we have a judgment based on the status quo order she filed months ago, and that I'm not okay with her trying to con me into giving her a kid free weekend (if we switched, one weekend she would have both and the other weekend she would have neither). I said she is not thinking about the girls but only about herself, and that she wanted to be a single mother so now she gets to be one...for better or for worse. This led into a text argument about how we got where we are. I flat out told her that we are here because of her. Months ago I told her how we proceeded was entirely up to her; she chose to file the status quo, the child support suit, to separate and have an affair with no regard to how it would affect the girls, to keep me from my biological daughter as much as possible, all of it. She chose this path. And I said I am ok with where we are now, that these are consequences of separation and divorce and that it's not my problem if the consequences have proven unpalatable to her. I said "You reap what you sow, stbxw." And went dark.

I got more texts from her after that day, ranging from nice to snotty and everything in between. No response from me. She finally quieted down. About 2 weeks ago, I heard from a mutual friend who works with her that OM broke things off with her. I guess his wife thought they were done with their fling, but they had still been seeing each other behind her back. An ultimatum was involved; not sure if it was stbxw or OMW who gave the ultimatum, but it's over between them. The very next day, stbxw starts playing games and starts coming up with reasons to text me. Even before all this happened, my GF was getting messages from a random person (who we "know" to be my stbxw) on Facebook who said that I'm not to be trusted and that she thought she was the only person in my life once, too....blah blah blah.

Two days before Halloween, I texted stbxw reminding her that the judgment gives me our daughter for Halloween night this year. I was polite and cordial. She replied back and said that was fine and that she wanted to talk to me about D. I said okay, about what? And this is what she says:

"First, I'd just like to say that I am truly sorry for the way things panned out. I was scared and angry when I filed the status quo and other paperwork. I didn't know what to expect from you and so I acted rashly out of fear of..well a lot of things honestly. I don't hate you, and I'm truly happy that you seem to be happy with GF. I hope it works out for you. " Then she asks again if we can switch weekends so the girls can have a couple weekends together. She is nice about it. I tell her I'm at work but I'll think about it and let her know that evening. Later that evening, I tell her thank you for the apology but that it doesn't really mean anything to me at this point, and hat I don’t trust her and I have no reason to. But I also tell her that I’m open to her suggestion, but that the ink isn’t even dry on the judgment yet and I’m not okay with making changes right away. I said I think it’s prudent to wait a couple months for the dust to settle, and if things go okay between now and then, I’d be okay with revisiting this after the 1st of the year. She gently pushes, isn’t negative in any way, but said that she wants her girls to be happy and that we need to find a way to be amicable. I said I still feel like you’re blowing smoke and that the only reason you’ve apologized is because you want something from me and none of your prior tactics have worked. I said D has mentioned none of this to me, and she talks to me a lot. I said I don’t see what the rush is about, switching weekends won’t impact the judgment in anyway, and waiting a bit of time is not unreasonable. She says that she just doesn’t want them to suffer anymore, and that there is no rush if I think we should wait. She then said: “I’m doing my best to put any negative feelings for you aside and be friendly. You and I will probably never be friends, but maybe we can try.. We are both good people, but the situation has brought out the worst in us. I’m ashamed of the way I acted, regardless of whether or not my actions were driven by fear and anger. I don’t want to be an angry or scared person anymore, and I will do my best to show you that I do respect you as D’s father and a hugely important person in her life. She really does deserve the best from us and I’m doing what I can to live up to that. Anyway. Thanks for talking to me and taking what I said into consideration, It means a lot.”  I tell her I do want to be civil going forward, but that she’s going to have to work hard to earn my trust and that I have no desire for a friendship. I do agree that we do need to work together for D’s benefit and I hope this partnership can continue. She agreed.

That totally threw me for a loop. I never once thought she would ever apologize for her actions. She always blameshifts, and even still did to some degree. But I never thought that would happen. I’m still proceeding with signing the paperwork once the final draft is done. I’m still going to move on with my life. But this has shaken me a bit. I want to trust her, but I can’t. I feel I handled that exchange very well, but I feel like it’s all a day late and a dollar short.

Sigh. I guess I just needed to get this off my chest. Sorry for the length. If you made it this far, I owe you a cookie.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I read the entire thing.

What do YOU want?


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

I know what I DON'T want. I don't want to be Plan B. I don't want to be a backup plan. I don't want to be cheated on again. And I don't want the girls to go through this ever again. I'm not okay with ANY of that.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think your doing great, your STBXW created these wall that you had to put up to protect your emotions from more pain. You are reacting instinctivly out of self preservation.

Of course you were shaken you guys had a history that she had now ruined...hence the word "history". So I think its that history you once had that shakes you...but the reality is...it is a day late and a dollar short. 

Hell brother who knows if it was sincere or she has an agenda....thats what happens when you betray someone, you don't know were the hell they are coming from so your instinct takes over and I think yours is right on.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW...weres my cookie..LOL


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

And I can't help but feel that she is still trying to manipulate me. The DAY after I found out OM broke things off with her, she was having stbxsd calling me crying. 24 hours later. Our mutual friend says she seems like she genuinely feels bad for how she's behaved, but how can I trust that? She had me fooled for months, being nice to me and acting like things were starting to get cool with us before I found out about her affair. From where I'm sitting, she's a fantastically good actress and can pull the wool over ANYONE's eyes. I'm just too damned cynical and jaded when it comes to her.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks Guy.  I really appreciate that!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You will know when its not munipulation when she can start to own her infidelity. The day she can admit to you and everyone else that what she did was wrong and only can blame her self.

When she steps back and gets the help she need in understanding her adoultous behaviors and learn the tools to inprove her self thru actions and not words.

I am talking a huge degree of submission on her part to own what she did and who she is. Then maybe its not some bull crap that only benifits her. 

There is not even a test you could give her...like you said she is well versed in deciet. So only thru her actions and time can she even get close to being the mother she once was.

Also your friend doesn't get it its not about feeling bad, its all about remorse and the action one has in showing that remorse by the submission they provide.

See, there is a big difference between felling bad for hurting you but being justifies for what I did versus I feel bad for what I did in the actions and behavior I exhibited.

Lets face it she is lonely and give it time and some other guy will come around and she will be at it again.... treating you like crap.

But thats just me.... time will tell, right?


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

the guy said:


> Lets face it she is lonely and give it time and some other guy will come around and she will be at it again.... treating you like crap.


This x1000. I just don't think I can ever trust her again, under any circumstance. This essentially codified it into a simple understandable statement.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Well then you are welcome.

Hell I just noticed you have been around TAM for a little while....come on dude you know the drill...start reading some threads.

This crap happens all the time.

You will get thru this and you know it.

I guess we all need a 2x4 over the head once in a while. LOL


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TFGrowth,

It's worth a look.

But, "the guy" is correct.

The key is whether she owns her behavior.

Currently, the "coincidence" of trouble with posOM and her contacting you is a bad sign.

Yet, move to the center of the drama triangle.

Make her show her hand.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't even know how I would go about taking a look. And I'm not sure i I even want to. 

At this point, my entire outlook is let her come to me. And even if she does, I'm not sure if I would want to rekindle anything. In the meantime, I'm not going to put my life on hold. My GF is everything I've ever wanted in a woman. It makes me sad that STBXW wasn't and missed the opportunity to prove she could become so.

I just feel better getting it off my chest.  Thanks everyone!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Tfg,
She isnt asking to be your one and only, she is only asking for a favor and is trying everything from naughty to nice. Dont read more into it. She might like to move back and use you as a baby sitter while she scouts for next om.

Do you remember what she did?
The one thing i have learned here is when people show you who they are by their actions BELIEVE them.
Do you really want that lying cheating bad mood diva back?

You new gf deserves better from you than this, she has never betrayed you or your trust.
Your wife is gone, and there is a poisonous toxic shape shifter living in her body.

If you got together with her you could NEVER trust her, dont get sucked in, you deserve better, enjoy you new life, let the past be the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

People make mistakes . People recognize their mistakes . People forgive others mistakes. 

Anyone here that is perfect ? Anyone never made mistakes ? 

You have GF and that make the situation extremely thin !


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

My bad, she decided to have an open marriage with you and her mistake was that she forgot to tell you.

Your mistake will be to think you are anything but plan B!

I still say you are reading to much into it based on your post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Yep. I agree with you Madman. Thanks for the 2x4. We all need them from time to time, and you delivered yours exactly the way I needed. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Tool I've been following your story for a while now and you'll be the biggest fool if you even consider giving her another chance after what she did and under these circumstances. Maybe in a few years if she somehow is truly remorseful and proves she's changed but not now. She's just fishing for some attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

toolforgrowth said:


> I don't even know how I would go about taking a look. And I'm not sure i I even want to.
> 
> At this point, my entire outlook is let her come to me. And even if she does, I'm not sure if I would want to rekindle anything. In the meantime, I'm not going to put my life on hold. My GF is everything I've ever wanted in a woman. It makes me sad that STBXW wasn't and missed the opportunity to prove she could become so.
> 
> ...


I'm going to start a thread on "moving to the center of the triangle"

I must tell you that "increased attention" when things go bad with posOM is not a good start.


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I'm going to start a thread on "moving to the center of the triangle"
> 
> I must tell you that "increased attention" when things go bad with posOM is not a good start.


In the end it doesn't matter. Madman and Keko are right. She isn't worth it, hasn't really changed, most likely won't. I was never going to take her back. This thread was more to just vent...get out my frustrations with her. GF has never betrayed me, knows exactly what STBXW did, and has done everything possible to make me comfortable. That's all that matters. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You have a wonder gf who is loyal to you. Why would you even look a second time a your stbxw, a cheater and a low life that hooked up a looser from an open marriage.

I don't even see you as her plan B. all you are is the entertainment between the last looser and the next.

Don't negotiate, don't be flexible, and don't return her calls.

Not only can you do better, you already have done better.

And I'm sure the only reason she wants to change your daughters schedule is to give herself free weekends so she can go hook up.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

I wasn't looking a second time Shaggy. Like I said, this thread was more to vent than to express any real desire to R. 

I am considering switching weekends, and probably will. Why? Because she brought her XOM around the girls and humped him at her apartment with them there. I know that she would hook up on the weekends she didn't have the girls. I would much rather her do that without the girls around than with them. What she does is entirely her own business, as lot as it doesn't affect the girls. I don't care if she hooks up...let her hook up to her heart's content. 

We be a child together, which means I have to have some form of communication and some form of give and take. I'm making her wait for a reason...just because I can. That, and to give her a chance to prove that she really has her daughters' best interests at heart. She isn't stupid and knows all this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Couleur (Apr 4, 2012)

Switch weekends. Allow your child to see the step-sister. Do this for your kid, not for the ex.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Couleur said:


> Switch weekends. Allow your child to see the step-sister. Do this for your kid, not for the ex.


I know. That's what I've been saying I'm going to do...in a couple months. The ex has to prove to me that she won't pawn them both off on someone if I make the switch. That's what I'm waiting for not she fails that test...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Couleur (Apr 4, 2012)

Why not switch weekends now? 

You've got a girlfriend, she's got OM (or some fraction of his open marriaged self). You've both moved on. I get that your ex betrayed your trust and treated you badly. But, don't be vindictive about it. If she wants to pursue her new relationship, your best strategy is to let her.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't think you've read the entire thread. 

Her and OM are no longer together. And I don't care if she pursues other relationships. However, I'm not going to roll over on command. I've been a doormat for far too long and I'm establishing boundaries now. She was a witch for an entire year. I'm not okay with being stepped on and then being expected to be the one to do all the accommodating. One little apology isn't going to get me to lower my guard or magically believe she has her daughters' best interests at heart. Like Madman said, when someone shows you who they really are, believe them. And boy howdy do I believe her. 

I have made my decision. You can disagree, as is your right. I stand by my decision nonetheless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Couleur (Apr 4, 2012)

toolforgrowth said:


> I don't think you've read the entire thread.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


I did read the thread, but missed the part with the OM, although i really don't see what difference who your wife is with affects you since you have moved on and are with a new GF yourself. The only way in which it would matter is if, through her actions, she is putting your child in a dangerous situation -- and you've already said you would prefer her to not bring a new partner into the home when your child is there.

You're right it's your decision, but it sounds to me like you know what the right thing (for your child) to do is and the reason that you are not is because you are still angry and pissed at your ex.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

That has nothing to do with it. I'm not okay with making a change to the schedule yet.

My ex step daughter is very bad to my daughter. Pushes her around, nags at her, talks mean to her, makes her cry all the time, the list goes on. My daughter has not mentioned to me once that she wishes she could see xsd on the weekends. Ever since I stopped having xsd around, my daughter has been a lot happier around my house with just the two of us. I have expressed all of this with my ex, who said she will address it. Hence, 2 months for the dust to settle and to see if she's actually going to step up and be a parent. 

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

EDIT

Granted, I can see why you may have come to that conclusion, so I don't blame you. But there are a LOT of other factors that are coming into play here. I want to be cautious and measured in what I choose to do. We barely have a judgment and she already wants to change it. My natural inclination is to let tensions ease for a bit, everybody take a breath, and then make the switch if things to okay. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Tfg, 
I get it, if she can get both girls on the same weekend then she only needs to dump them with 1 babysitter on that weekend to get every weekend free. Meanwhile you daughter is in hell with the step sister.

You want her to put boundaries in place between both daughters so it is good for both of them, there is NOTHING vindictive about it, then you will agree.

You got your head on right make the best deal for your daughter.

I respect you position.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

It's official. I signed the judgment today, and stbxw has signed it as well. By this time next week, the judge will have signed it and it'll be official. She will then officially be the xw.

She's been much nicer lately. Very accommodating with me spending time with my daughter. Her texts are filled with emoticons. (I don't text her unless I absolutely have to, essentially regarding daughter only). Day care is neutral ground and that's where we do the picking up and dropping off so we never see each other, although Friday after Thanksgiving she had to come by my house to pick up daughter. She was very friendly...joking, laughing, making conversation. She hasn't stepped foot into my house since she moved out in February, and I've completely redone the inside. She made like she was going to come inside, but I guess I had a look of surprise on my face because she caught herself and then "casually" leaned up against the doorjam. I went and got daughter while xw stood in the doorway outside (I'm very private and not okay with her coming into my living space), kissed daughter goodbye, and that was that. She was very smiley throughout the entire exchange.

I barely responded to her small talk. I just don't have it in me to banter back and forth. She said she wanted to be friends a while back, and I said no, not interested. I play nice in front of our daughter, and I'm civil when we converse via text, but I prefer to keep our interactions purely professional. She didn't act disappointed and was very friendly even in her enthusiastic goodbye.

It took her 3 weeks to sign the judgment. Not sure what the delay was all about. I had to get my attorney to ask her attorney what was going on to get her to sign it. At least she finally did it in the end.

I feel...weird. Most of me is so grateful that it's finally over and done with. I can put it behind me. But another part of me is sad that it had to end up this way. I could have tried to work through the infidelity, let her know there was a chance if she played along...but I just didn't have it in me. I needed this divorce. If anything to just send a message..."I'm not okay with what you did and I WILL walk away. I have the means, the strength, and the wherewithal to do it."

In the meantime, I'm going to explore all that life has in store for me. Things with GF are...interesting. It's a LDR which puts pressure on things, plus she has health issues from a genetic disease. It's so hard when we're apart, but when we're together it's like magic and everything is so wonderful. I'm hoping that in the not too distant future it'll be easier for our paths to cross. She said she's working on some things, and I believe her.

Things with daughter couldn't be better.  She plays and has fun when she's here, we roughhouse and have tickle fights, she helps me in the kitchen...she's only 5, but I have her help me in the kitchen as much as I can. Daddy loves to cook and I want her to get all the skills I have!

All in all, life is pretty good. I still have my ups and downs, which is to be expected. But I find solace in my daughter, in work (which has been going VERY well, I've been tasked with a lot of important projects that I've been doing very well at), and knowing that I've beaten everything my ex could throw at me and not only survived, but thrived. I know I can beat anything. It's hard, and sometimes I still get sad, but I need this divorce. I need to cure my codependency, especially from the xw. And I need to live my life for ME.

CUT...and that's a wrap.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm curious here - your daughter is her daughter too right? So your STBXSD is your daughter's sister if I'm not mistaken. Is your ex a bad mother? Something doesn't compute to me in the picture you're painting here.

Now, regarding your daughter's relationship with her sister, c'mon. Siblings are mean to themselves all the time. You should see my two sons when they go at each other. It's borderline scary.

I'm afraid I must say that your focus seems to be getting your pound of flesh here. The ex appears to have moved on, regardless of OM, you on the other hand seem to be holding on, seem to want her to suffer. To what purpose I ask? What does it cost you to make things easier for the mother of your daughter (and by proxy, your daughter)? 

It's not going to be 100% over between you, your ex and your STBXD as long as your daughter is alive. One day, she will get married, and very likely will want her mom, her dad and her sister there, will you split things up at that time as well? Life has thrown you lemons, make lemonade. 

If your ex wants to be friends, by all means be friends. Or not. But this whole idea of using your daughter as a tool to spite your ex is extremely uncomfortable to me. Your daughter has a family outside you. Let her enjoy that family.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Considering that my ex wanted to keep my daughter with her other ex husband, who is an ex con for child abuse, rather than with me (her biological father) so she could see posOM and to just be spiteful...yes, I would say she's a bad mother.

I've already made my arguments as to why I want to wait before making the switch. They're already here. I'm not going to rehash them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

toolforgrowth said:


> Considering that my ex wanted to keep my daughter with her other ex husband, who is an ex con for child abuse, rather than with me (her biological father) so she could see posOM and to just be spiteful...yes, I would say she's a bad mother.
> 
> I've already made my arguments as to why I want to wait before making the switch. They're already here. I'm not going to rehash them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Indeed. I read them. 
You still seem obsessed with getting even.

Dude, you asked for advice, I've given you my take. I understand that it's not popular, what most people really want is validation and support, not advice.

In the end, you will do what you like. It's your decision to make, and I respect that. But at least call it as it is, you don't want your ex to have any convenience. Don't blame it on your daughter or her sister, that's just low.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

My ex having convenience has nothing to do with it. As a matter if fact, the main reason why I will make the switch is that I WANT her to have convenience. I want her I have a kid free weekend so she can sow her wild oats AWAY from the girls. She brought her ex married affair partner around them quite a bit. If she has a kid free weekend, that kind of behavior will be minimized...which is exactly what I want. 

Bottom line: ex has to prove that she is going to be trustworthy and take the girls feelings into consideration. She has done none of that this past year. I've essentially been a single parent. Not only that, I'm simply not okay with giving her what she wants right away. I had to fight tooth and nail to get what little time I have with my daughter now, and she expects me to just cave right off the bat. I'm not okay with that. If she wants my cooperation and trust, she has to earn it...just like everybody else. 

Just an FYI: my daughter has the best time when she is with me and NEVER mentions her half sister. Never says she misses her, never says she wishes she could see her, nothing. And every time I see her she always says she wishes she could stay longer...knowing full well her half sister is not around. I think she LIKES getting away from her half sister. God knows I would if I were her...her half sister is horrible. You never had to live with her.

Pound of flesh? No. I think the ex is already getting the punishment from her actions now with no interference from me. She's broke, is alone and a single mother of two now, and has no chance of coming back to the comfy life she had with me.

I will reiterate once again: I WILL MAKE THE SWITCH. Provided she proves she can be trustworthy and actually will be the mother the girls deserve if I do so. I never said I wasn't going to, Caladan. I simply said I don't want to start making a bunch of changes RIGHT AWAY. I want to let the dust settle and for tensions to ease, and right now, that is exactly what is going on. My ex has to WORK for my cooperation, and the good thing is that we are establishing a good working partnership. I will always keep her at arm's length and I make no apology about that. I don't want to be friends with her...she is not the kind of person I choose to associate with. But I do want there to be a good working partnership in the administration of our daughter. This far, she is doing ok. If it continues, she'll get what she wants, and so will I...a firm boundary put in place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Awesome. That makes a great deal of sense.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks. 

By the way...you must be a Dune fan?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Steven Eriksson actually. I'm more fantasy than sci-fi


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

Gotcha.  Caladan was the planet Muad'Dib came from in Dune, so that's what made me curious. 

Ever read Brent Weeks?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

No, not at all. Is he any good?

By the way - Eriksson's style is quite gritty, quite pithy. He's considered the Frank Herbert of fantasy


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