# Should I leave or should I stay? Partner had a 3-some (and I wasn't invited.)



## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

I am so glad to have found this place, as I am in desperate need of help.

I've been with the same woman for 4 years, we don't have any kids. We've been a pretty good couple, for at least 3.5 of those years, we had a few arguments here and there, mostly about money and family, only real serious fight was when she admitted to trying cocaine once and she didn't make it clear if she was going to keep doing it or not. (I didn't want to live my life with a drug addict.) Those things we got past and for 3.5 years we did pretty good.

It wasn't really until last January that problems started arising. She graduated from her course last summer and was hopeful to find a job. She did a couple of freelance projects, but still hasn't found a real job for a year. We got into a fight because the possibility that she wanted to move away to find work.
(The job market in her field was bad around here.) It escalated quite a bit and I broke a plate (It hurt to think she felt it easy to move away and have some long distance thing.). Several days later she came home late at 4:30 in the morning after going out with some "friends" I sat next to her while she was texting someone after we woke up, I peered over and she quickly hid the phone and said it was none of my business, I immediately assumed the worst and became very silent. She told me it was just a guy friend and she didn't tell me because she knew I'd get upset. I got into her facebook later and found a convo between her and this guy. She wrote the words: "My fiancee dosen't know about you." (he also wrote:"Just tell him i'm gay.") Those words ignited a torrent of fightning in which we separated, I broke a bunch of stuff and felt I was definetly really hurt. We talked a little during the week, she told me that she figured that we were splitting up for good after this, and that she never cheated on me, that guy and her when to a second cup after the bar closed to talk, and they actually held hands and that was it. To this day, I lean towards believing this story, but I still have my doubts, especially about the wording of the facebook convo. 

During the time we were "separated" her and a lover from the past had cyber sex. When that guy wouldn't go to see her for a date, she went vindictive and sabotaged the relationship that that guy had with his girlfirend. She also when on a date with this "man from the bar" and she said the date was terrible, and that they had made out a little and that it was bad (I learned this later though.) I had planned a date when she came back for her, because I started to feel like ths was my last chance to salvage this thing. So we had a really good date and she said that she really badly wanted to be with me, sio we got back together, but I was being diligent and kept a watchful eye. She may have not cheated on me, but she _was_ hiding things and had at least an emotional relationship with this person for a short while.

Fast forward to september 4th. One day I came back home after being gone for 4 days from a work trip. She was _very_ odd and we got into a fight, she complained about her terrible job she has to do (job not in her field.) and that while I was gone she got into a fight with a co-worker and she might lose her job, about how she wasted so much time and is in debt for school for nothing, the only reason she was here, was because of me, that she miserable, she dosen't think we can continue on, etc, etc.

She was usually very happy to see me back home, after a few days. This was totally different. I got worried and stalked her facebook. Found a convo between her and one of her "friends" (These friends are girls, btw and they always mess with our relationship.) They mentioned the crazy 3-some that they did last night. I confronted my fiancee about this at her work. I asked her if anything happened that night, she said that her friend had sex with this guy. I asked and she left you alone at the bar? She said well....no. She said she watched them have sex. And I said "you only watched them?". Finally the truth came out. She admitted to it. I told her father and brother about it. Unlike last time, I kept very calm. Nothing was broken, and we talked... She said the whole "I'm very sorry, I didn't do it to hurt you." thing. She was apparently miserable that day because someone said they were going to have her fired and she was really drunk, lonely while I was gone, and she just kind of gave in to it happening.

The next few days were awkward, we needed to get the daily things done, like groceries and house cleaning. We always did those things together and they needed to get done that day. I was unsure about how I felt about her. I knew she was experiencing some problems over the last year, unfortunetly they come at my expence. I demanded that we seek counciling, to which she agreed. She even agrees to allow to have a 3-some with her and another girl to "make up" for it. 

I am still unsure if I should be with her or if I'm just screwing myself. I feel right now she genually cares and wants to make this work. But sometime I feel she wants something else and she is just "settling" for me.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Your fiancee has some serious issues to overcome before you should even think about marrying her. She's experimented with cocaine, cheated on you with as assortment of men, and participated in a menage a trois. In addition, she resents you for making her stick around in a town where she's not able to find a job in the field that she trained for.

You also have some anger issues to work through. While breaking plates is better than breaking your fiancee's face, it does show a level of immaturity on your part. My question is this: why would you want to marry this person? I can see nothing good coming from this union.

My advice:

RUN LIKE FORREST GUMP AWAY FROM THIS WOMAN.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

I agree that I have a few anger issues to deal with. As to why I should be with her, (I should really mention this.):

For 3.5 years we really "got" each other, we even say the same thing at the same time _incredibly_ often. We have the same interests, and we have always connected together very well. In a way that is hard to come by

To be quite honest our sex is _scalding_ hot. I have never been with someone so fufilling sexually and feel that I may never be able to again.

I feel she does generally care about me, but she seems to have issues to work out. I think she might be a bit of an excitement/attention junkie when she feels bad about herself, counsiling may help.

Thing were so great for a while, but things just got bad this year. We have made plans to move in two years, it's just that her life is pretty misable unfortunetly right now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I hope you see and realize that she is putting 0% effort into the relationship. She loves you so much that she hops into bed with a guy and girl for a threesome.

She is far too immature and self centered to be considered by anyone be married to.

You sound like someone who knows what they want in life, and is productively working towards it. You also sound mature.

She on the other hand, is hiding her phone, keeping secrets, and screwing around. She's lying to you, and frankly not acting with a shred of love or respect for you.

My advice - move along. There are much better women out there, you just need to stop wasting time on this one.

She doesn't value you, she doesn't value the relationship. her actions show this in detail.

Honestly, the issue here isn't that she's settling for you - It's that YOU are settling for HER.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> I agree that I have a few anger issues to deal with. As to why I should be with her, (I should really mention this.):
> 
> For 3.5 years we really "got" each other, we even say the same thing at the same time _incredibly_ often. We have the same interests, and we have always connected together very well. In a way that is hard to come by
> 
> ...


NO counseling won't fix this. Counseling teaches people how to talk to one another, and to listen. That's not your problem here. She's out seeking other relationships, and is putting no effort into you. That's the problem. You are not a priority to her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh my God. Excuse me but yours is a post that makes me shout
RAHHHHHHHHHH!

She does drugs, she cheats on you, she wants to make it all better by you cheating on her and... and...


> "I'm very sorry, I didn't do it to hurt you."


 :wtf:

Really? She said that? As if that makes it OK?

You need to ask her exactly how many times she has cheated on you, before you even think about counselling, in my opinion.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Agreed, ask how many other times there have been... I'm sure she didn't meant to hurt you with any of them either.

Get checked for stds. 

If you are having issues like this now- do not marry her. Marriage will not make it better.

Good luck
WD


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

workindad said:


> Agreed, ask how many other times there have been... I'm sure she didn't meant to hurt you with any of them either.
> 
> Get checked for stds.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
stds. Yes. ASAP.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Yeah, we actually have very good lines of communication and I know that this was the only time it had happened. This is because I really looked into everything. She only had a cell for the last year and I looked into that and I've seen every fb message she ever wrote since we've been together and everything I wrote in this thread is everything. I even did try some lie detection techniques and had her describe what happened in january and I couldn't see any lies. (but i'm no expert or anything.)

Is it really only worth forgiving someone if your married to them?

She has tried alot to be thoughtful of me and buy things for me and do what she can to make this work, I really can't think of anything else she can do to prove herself.

Any ideas on how she could possibly prove herself, (just to play devil's advocate.)

EDIT: She also said she would never see the friends that screw with our relationship ever again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You hope it is the only time it has happened.
You believe she has only one cell.

It might be worth reconciling. But...


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh my God. Excuse me but yours is a post that makes me shout
> RAHHHHHHHHHH!


Ummm, my friend from across the big pond, Rah actually signifies something good on this side. I'll drop the 'R' so that it translates well in the states:

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Don't get married any time soon!!! You said you don't want kids and considering what your girlfriend has done, save yourself the heartache/money and don't. Just enjoy the sex....thats whats seems to be the most important part of your relationship with her that you value. 

Her giving you a 3-way as compensation just rewards the cheater, plus its not equal. It should be you and two other women without her....cause she wasn't with you so why does she get to be rewarded with more sex.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> To be quite honest our sex is _scalding_ hot. I have never been with someone so fufilling sexually and feel that I may never be able to again.


Have you ever had sex with a certain actress whose last name is Beckinsale? Not that I think you have a chance in hell but I wanted to point out that your girlfriend is not the only hot woman in the world. I'm sure there's someone out there waiting to rock your world without cheating on you and doing blow.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

OK, you asked an was answered.
It seem nothing anyone say is what you want to hear.

So I will say this. Use this as a way for you BOTH to grow.
BUT,,, before you invest in MC, ask her to take a polygraph.

Coming in at 4 am, an then keeping in contact with her hookup partner, ready to deceive you he was gay if you hadn't jumped the gun.

Now, she is NOT happy with not being able to work in her field an blame you.
She cheats with some bar fly.
Her friends interfere in the relationship.
She cheats again in a 3some.

What is there beside hot sex, an finishjing each other sentences?? 
Why didn't you offer to move where she can work in her field ??
Yes this can possible be saved. BUT it will take a LOT of HARD work.
But if she is still unhappy not working in her field, this will be a thorn in your relationship.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

Way too immature for a serious relationship.

Run.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Don't get married any time soon!!! You said you don't want kids and considering what your girlfriend has done, save yourself the heartache/money and don't. Just enjoy the sex....thats whats seems to be the most important part of your relationship with her that you value.
> 
> Her giving you a 3-way as compensation just rewards the cheater, plus its not equal. It should be you and two other women without her....cause she wasn't with you so why does she get to be rewarded with more sex.


To be fair I requested it. (the 3 some and specifically her and another girl.)


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Don't see a good future based on her attitude/behavior. If for some reason you decide to move fwd w her be sure to insist on an air tight prenup or you will not have a pot to piss in ten yrs from now


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Ummm, my friend from across the big pond, Rah actually signifies something good on this side. I'll drop the 'R' so that it translates well in the states:
> 
> AHHHHHHHHHHHH!


RAH! means something good, here, too. RAHHHHHHH! not so good.

However, thanks for the tip. My wordless yell clearly needs some work doing to it.:smthumbup:


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> OK, you asked an was answered.
> It seem nothing anyone say is what you want to hear.
> 
> So I will say this. Use this as a way for you BOTH to grow.
> ...


It's not that I don't value people's opinions, but I want something more comprehensive. I should have called this "What should I do." in the title instead.

I don't want a bunch of one-sided arguments i guess. If I just talked about the "bad" then of course everyone, would say run.

She had a Emotional relationship the first time, (I talked to her about it again just earlier. She explained everything again and there was nothing physical.)

Her friends will not be a factor, since those particular people will be out of the picture.

The blow dosen't really bother me, it was the potential for continuous usage that got me, but that was a one-time thing.

I asked her to be fully transparent just now, if we were to stay together, thus she shows me her cell, e-mail and fb accounts on request and i'll do the same (I have nothing to hide.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> It's not that I don't value people's opinions, but I want something more comprehensive. I should have called this "What should I do." in the title instead.
> 
> I don't want a bunch of one-sided arguments i guess. If I just talked about the "bad" then of course everyone, would say run.
> 
> ...


She had a threesome and thinks it will be a good idea for you to have a threesome? 

That's not a good idea. It can cause all kinds of stuff in a relationship, so even if you do reconcile, say no to that idea. And open marriages rarely work.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> To be fair I requested it. (the 3 some and specifically her and another girl.)


You're not thinking this through at all. Obviously, the best solution is to simply walk away and be content with the fact that you didn't marry a serial cheater. However, if you insist on your Fiance arranging a threesome for you in order for her to "make it up to you", at least replace your fiance with another girl, i.e. have your fiance arrange a threesome for you with 2 of her hottest friends...


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She had a threesome and thinks it will be a good idea for you to have a threesome?
> 
> That's not a good idea. It can cause all kinds of stuff in a relationship, so even if you do reconcile, say no to that idea. And open marriages rarely work.


You might be right, it was my idea after all. I guess I felt like an idiot about what happened and that doing that might make it better, since I never got to do that and everytime I hear 3-some, I want to throw up. (Though I could replace a bad mental cognitation with a better one.)

Not into open marriage or anything like that either, there would be nothing of the sort after.

But in the end maybe It's not a good idea.

EDIT: she only really "cheated" once, at least I consider cheating anything physical. So I don't know why some people think she is a serial cheater. The first thing was hidden at first but nothing physical happen. I'm trying to get the facts straight here..


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Make all the excuses you want but this woman is toxic and you both are way to immature for a real relationship.

She thought she was getting fired so she participates in a threesome - yeah that makes total sense. BTW she had sex with her "gay" friend. She is secretive and self centered.

You get into an argument and get violent and break things. Really good self control.

Get away from her and you need to do some anger management work on yourself.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

It seems like you're stubbornly committed to sticking with this immature cheat of a fiance, so in truth, I don't really know how we can help you. Sure, we can give you advice about what she can do to restore trust, but your relationship with her is young, and she's proven time and time again that she _cannot_ be trusted. 

I dislike being harsh and cynical, but if you truly believe her relationship with her first affair partner was not physical, you are _horrifically_ naive. Her own Facebook messages betray her alibi to you. She was having an affair that I don't doubt was physical. She _knew_ what she was doing. Her lover knew it too. Why would she need to tell you he was "gay" if they weren't fvcking around? 4:30 in the morning, with her "gay" male friend? And she was emotionally distant around the same time that this was going on? _She was having sex with him_. If you decide stay with her, this may come to light eventually. And how will you handle her lie at _that_ point? You may be married and with kids when this comes to light. And you'll be in a _real_ emotional jam then.

Rather than trying to make amends and prove she's worth marrying, she goes on to date with her ex - _who is in a relationship with someone else_. And when he doesn't come down to fvck her like she wants, she _ruins his relationship with his girlfriend_. Oh, yes. Quite the keeper you've got there Lightning.

You say the sex is hot. Is it worth being made a cuckold for? If so, stay with her, by all means. If you have one _iota_ of self respect, you would be seriously considering why you should waste any more time with her.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

What are you guys going to do when the sex gets boring after years of being married?
And believe me, the sex will not always be hot - for either of you.

Do you honestly see yourself with this woman 20, 30, 50 years in the future?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Not as toxic as your comments, I thought this was a place for help, not for insults.
> Go crawl back to your hole. I have no patience for trolls


TDSC60 has been on this forum for almost a year and has over 700 posts. I rank the advice given by him up there with the best on this board. Definitely not a troll.

If you want both sides, you might want to visit a cheaters forum to get the other half - because you won't get it here.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Jibril said:


> It seems like you're stubbornly committed to sticking with this immature cheat of a fiance, so in truth, I don't really know how we can help you. Sure, we can give you advice about what she can do to restore trust, but your relationship with her is young, and she's proven time and time again that she _cannot_ be trusted.
> 
> I dislike being harsh and cynical, but if you truly believe her relationship with her first affair partner was not physical, you are _horrifically_ naive. Her own Facebook messages betray her alibi to you. She was having an affair that I don't doubt was physical. She _knew_ what she was doing. Her lover knew it too. Why would she need to tell you he was "gay" if they weren't fvcking around? 4:30 in the morning, with her "gay" male friend? And she was emotionally distant around the same time that this was going on? _She was having sex with him_. If you decide stay with her, this may come to light eventually. And how will you handle her lie at _that_ point? You may be married and with kids when this comes to light. And you'll be in a _real_ emotional jam then.
> 
> ...


I am seriously considering this, but I am confident with a 98% accuracy that the first time there was no cheating, I asked her again like 30 minutes ago, and she explained the story down to the smallest detail and she never looked to her right (the side that makes up the story.) So either she is an absolute master of deception or she is actually...honest.

The shutting down the other guys relatioship, i agree with you. It technically dosen't involve me, but it really is messed up and makes me wonder about her a little.

I just want the facts to be read right, and some poeple are misunderstanding a little.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> The shutting down the other guys relatioship, i agree with you. It technically dosen't involve me, but it really is messed up and makes me wonder about her a little.


It makes you wonder a little? Be careful, because one day she WILL turn that wrath on YOU.

You might think your situation is soooo unique. But it's not. We've seen it all before and your fiancee fits the mold of a serial cheater. And your 98% figure is 98% inaccurate.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> I am seriously considering this, but I am confident with a 98% accuracy that the first time there was no cheating, I asked her again like 30 minutes ago, and she explained the story down to the smallest detail and she never looked to her right (the side that makes up the story.) So either she is an absolute master of deception or she is actually...honest.


You're free to believe what you want. On these forums, we've come to familiarize ourselves with a term called "trickle truth." When the liar/cheater decides (or is cornered) to reveal their infidelity, they will "trickle" the truth. That is to say, they only reveal the bare minimum of their betrayal to minimize the damage they do to themselves.

It is all too often that a betrayed spouse such as yourself commits to forgiving and reconciling with a cheat, only to learn of more infidelity and hidden truths later. This sets them back in the reconciliation process, since they've essentially been betrayed all over again. And each one of these betrayed spouses were just as sure as you are that they "knew" everything. 

I judge based on actions, rather than words. She could weave whatever story she wants in order to get you off her back. Her distant behavior towards you and her relationship prior to your discovery of her first affair speaks louder than anything she could have said to ease your suspicions. Her hiding the phone speaks louder than anything she could have said to ease your suspicions. And, of course, her Facebook messages with this man, where she decided to lie about her lover's sexual orientation in order to maintain her affair, speaks louder than anything she could have said to ease your suspicions.



lightninghelix said:


> The shutting down the other guys relatioship, i agree with you. It technically dosen't involve me, but it really is messed up and makes me wonder about her a little.


A _little_? This tells me _everything_ I need to know about this woman. _Everything_. Stand back for a second and look, genuinely _look_, at what she did. Your girlfriend is a loon. She is unstable, untrustworthy, conniving, utterly selfish and vindictive. She is _not_ marriage material.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The "RAHHHHHHH" thing came from a colleague at work. When she had dealt with a difficult customer she'd put the phone down and shout: "RAHHHHHHHH!!!!!"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You're not thinking this through at all. Obviously, the best solution is to simply walk away and be content with the fact that you didn't marry a serial cheater. However, if you insist on your Fiance arranging a threesome for you in order for her to "make it up to you", at least replace your fiance with another girl, i.e. have your fiance arrange a threesome for you with 2 of her hottest friends...


You requested it? Oh, brother....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Not as toxic as your comments, I thought this was a place for help, not for insults.
> Go crawl back to your hole. I have no patience for trolls


You came here for advice. If you don't like the advice, that's OK. But attacking a long time poster at TAM and accusing them of being a troll, just because you don't like their advice is very rude, in my opinion.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Look, if you love the woman, and is determine to make this work, then you both have a lot of work to do.
IC to start, with lots of reading.
Start with "The Married Man Sex Life". And its not a sex book. Its a relationship book. Then you both read "Not Just Friends".
And just for you "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

These are books for self and marriage improvements. Ways to affair proof relationships.

You might not believe this, but I do wish you the best.

But I noticed you never touched the poly subject.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Really? You're attacking people for calling an apple and apple and a liar a liar? 

Me smelleth something off.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Since you will not listen.And you think you Know her well and can spot lies..

*Can People Tell When a Husband or Wife, Boyfriend or Girlfriend, is Lying?*
*"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."--Jean Baptiste Poquelin Moliere*

Again, people have a very difficult time spotting deception with a complete stranger. All the research shows that people are no better than tossing a coin when trying to detect deception by someone they do not know (see, nonverbal cues).

A reasonable person might think that it would be easier to tell if a spouse or lover is lying. After all, people are more intimate with their romantic partners. People know their husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, and how they typically behave.

It should be easy to catch a spouse or lover in a lie by watching their body language. This makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately, the opposite is more likely to be true.

Love is blind.

When people are in love, they place a lot of trust in their romantic partners and think they know them well. While this trust provides people with a sense of security and comfort, it creates an opportunity for deception. 

Every study conducted shows that lovers have a very difficult time actually telling when their partners are lying. Even though detecting deception is difficult with complete strangers, lovers manage to take this skill to a new low (see, Levine and McCornack, McCornack and Parks, Millar and Millar, Stiff, Kim and Ramesh, Cole).

This finding is called the "truth-bias" and it is one of the best documented findings when it comes to deception, love and romance. As people become more intimate and more emotionally involved they also become less accurate at detecting their partner's deception. People are too willing to give their romantic partners the benefit of the doubt.

The "truth-bias" helps explain why deception is almost always discovered by accident (see, discovering deception). More often than not, people have a difficult time imagining that their partner could be lying.

Perhaps the easiest way to see the "truth-bias" is not in your own relationship, but a friend's relationship. Have you ever had a friend, who was in love with someone, but your friend could not see how his or her lover might be lying? Of course, it is always much easier for other people to see the truth.

When we become emotionally involved with someone it is much harder to spot their lies - seeing the truth would simply cause too much pain, especially when it comes to serious issues such as infidelity.

Ironically, while we have a difficult time spotting our lover's lies, we do not realize it. Most people think they are really good at telling when their partner is lying, but research shows that thinking you are good at detecting deception does not make it so (see, detection confidence).

We think we can detect deception because we trust our "gut reaction" - our instinct, if you will. And while we occasionally catch a lover lying, we probably only catch about 1-5% of the lies we are told. So, based on these few successes, we assume we can detect deception better than we can.

Taken together, an interesting pattern begins to emerge.

As intimacy increases:

People's confidence at detecting deception increases.
People's actual ability to detect deception declines.
Partners have more reasons to lie (see, expectations and lying).
What does this mean?

More often than not, people place the most trust in the person who is most likely to deceive them.

And unfortunately people are the most likely to deceive the person who loves and trusts them the most.



Do not use eye contact or lack of it as a sole indicator of truthfulness. Contrary to popular belief, a liar does not always avoid eye contact.[1] Humans naturally break eye contact and look at non-moving objects to help them focus and remember. *Liars may deliberately make eye contact to seem more sincere; this can be practiced to overcome any discomfort, as a way of "proving" that truth is being told.* *Indeed, it has been shown that some liars tend to increase the level of eye contact* *in response to the fact that investigators have often considered eye contact as a tell.*[2] _Clearly, only use eye aversion as one indicator in a general context of increasing distress when being asked difficult questions._[2]



Here are some reasons your spouse might lie, signs that you are being lied to, and what you can do about the lies and lying.
It is widely believed that nearly everyone lies on a regular basis. In an interview with ABC News on 1/0/02, University of Virginia sociologist Bella DePaulo remarked that some lying is necessary in everyday life.
Some Reasons People Lie:
•	To avoid conflict.
•	To supposedly protect someone's feelings.
•	To avoid the consequences of their behavior.
•	To postpone having to make changes in lifestyle.
•	To hide something they did or did not do.
•	Because they are afraid of rejection or losing their spouse.
•	To be in control of a situation.
•	To avoid being embarrassed.
•	To make themselves appear more successful, good, or talented than they really are.
You Could Mislabel Behaviors
It is possible to mistake nervousness or distraction or lack of eye contact for lying with the result of misreading or mislabeling your spouse's behaviors. Nonverbal clues to lying can be difficult to spot and vary from individual to individual.
The Bottom Line: If you think your spouse is lying, ask questions and ask for clarification if necessary. Some experts believe you should ask for eye contact and ask that the story be told in reverse. It is important for you to trust your own intuition or that funny feeling you may feel inside.
Possible Signs of Lying:
Remember -- most of these signs can be easily misread and misinterpreted!
•	Touching chin, or rubbing their brows.
•	Crossed arms or legs.
•	Playing with hair.
•	A line of perspiration on the brow if it isn't a warm day.
•	Saying "no" several times.
•	Continual denying of accusations.
•	Being extremely defensive.
•	Providing more information and specifics than is necessary or was asked for.
•	Inconsistencies in what is being shared.
•	Body language and facial expressions don't match what is being said such as saying "no", but nodding head up and down.
•	Smugness.
•	May place a barrier such as a desk or chair in front of self.
•	Uncommon calmness.
•	Unwillingness to touch spouse during conversation.
•	Being hesitant.
•	Slouching posture.
•	Rigidity or fidgeting.
•	Differing behaviors. Not acting in a usual fashion.
•	Unnatural or limited arm and hand movements.
•	Partial shrug.
•	Lack of finger pointing.
•	Unusual voice fluctuations, word choice, sentence structure.
•	Stalling the conversation by repetitive use of pauses and comments like "um" or "you know".
•	Lack of use of contractions. Prefers emphasizing "not" when talking.
•	Use of word fillers or evasive answers when on the telephone.
•	Lack of many pronouns while talking.
•	Avoidance of eye contact, eyes glancing to the right, staring past you, or turning away from you while they are talking. *However, some honesty experts, like Stan Walters, say that measuring eye contact isn't an effective tool in detecting deception.*
Anahad O'Connor: "Research suggests that it is not possible to detect lies based on eye movement."
Source: Anahad O'Connor. "Really? You Can Spot a Lie by Watching a Person's Eyes."NYTimes.com. 7/16/2012.


*Still think differently? This is from **FBI.gov*



While interviewing the suspect who claims ignorance about an incident, the witness who saw it happen, or the informant who identified the perpetrator, the detective asks a question that will eviscerate the perpetrator’s story. *As the suspect prepares to answer, he looks up and to the left, purses his lips, tenses his eyelids, and brings his eyebrows down.*

*The investigator knows that a suspect displaying shifty eyes and gaze aversion and looking up and to the left when answering uncomfortable questions is exhibiting signs of lying. *The suspect is not totally disinterested, but he is reluctant to participate in the interview. Because the suspect’s behavior suggests dishonesty, the detective prepares to drill still deeper in the questioning.

*Unfortunately, this investigator likely would be wrong.* *Twenty-three out of 24 peer-reviewed studies published in scientific journals reporting experiments on eye behavior as an indicator of lying have rejected this hypothesis.**1 No scientific evidence exists to suggest that eye behavior or gaze aversion can gauge truthfulness reliably.*

Some people say that gaze aversion is the sure sign of lying, others that fidgety feet or hands are the key indicators. Still others believe that analysis of voice stress or body posture provides benchmarks. Research has tested all of these indicators and found them only weakly associated with deception.2

Relying on false clues, or signs, about lying can have dire consequences.3 It can lead to inaccurate reads that witnesses, suspects, or informants are lying when they are not or that they are telling the truth when there is more to the story. Reliance on false clues leads to misplaced confidence about the strengths and weaknesses of cases and can lead an investigator down dead-end paths. Moreover, a false read can have deadly consequences.

The rest from you can read from FBI

FBI — Evaluating Truthfulness and Detecting Deception


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Break up with her. She's definitely not wife material. She will cheat again and lie to you about it. You're naive to trust her.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

i wish he could see through the crystal ball as clear as we can...buddy dump and run,or you WILL be back on here complaining on how right we were.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Alas, dear poster, 'Experience is the best teacher, but the most expensive.'

I wish you luck.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

1) STD test. After all she swap fluids with another man and women. Something you might want to look into.....just saying

2) You might see more clearly the type of women your dealing with when you stop thinking with your [email protected]#k.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh crap i was not going to respond ,since you are not listening.
But i will do it anyway…


You really dont know about women much do you?

I´m not trying to be rude here. Do you even know how difficult it
Is to get a women to participate in a threesome??

I tell you difficult as hell. They dont mind fantasies about it during sex.
But that´s about it.. Take it to the next level. Not happening very i quick
It can take years of precvation from boyfriend/husband.. And when they finally agree its hardly with a another women..
Im saying this based on your history you discriebed .I did not sound like she was
That comfortable,to pull this off that quick drunk or not..
Now there are women out there ,that would jump at the idea prytty 
Quick. But they are not a dime of a dozen..



Read my first post

It wasn't really until last January that problems started arising. She graduated from her course last summer and was hopeful to find a job. She did a couple of freelance projects, but still hasn't found a real job for a year. We got into a fight because the possibility that she wanted to move away to find work.
(The job market in her field was bad around here.) It escalated quite a bit and I broke a plate (It hurt to think she felt it easy to move away and have some long distance thing.). _Several days later she came home late at 4:30 in the morning after going out with some "friends"_ I sat next to her while she was texting someone after we woke up, *I peered over and she quickly hid the phone and said it was none of my business,* _Why so defensive?? Not your business??? Why was she planning a surprise party for you??_

I immediately assumed the worst and became very silent. *She told me it was just a guy friend and she didn't tell me because she knew I'd get upset.*_ Why did she feel the need for that?? You are allowed to have friend´s _

I got into her facebook later and found a convo between her and this guy. She wrote the words: *"My fiancee dosen't know about you." *_There is your answer on why_*(he also wrote:"Just tell him i'm gay.")*_You still think she did only hold hands?? _

Those words ignited a torrent of fightning in which we separated, I broke a bunch of stuff and felt I was definetly really hurt. We talked a little during the week, *she told me that she figured that we were splitting up for good.*
_And her reason not to inform you on this??
_

*after this, and that she never cheated on me*,_Trust me she has been doing it all along..Question is with how many.._ *that guy and her when to a second cup after the bar closed to talk, and they actually held hands and that was it.* _14 year old are holding hands._

*To this day, I lean towards believing this story, but I still have my doubts, especially about the wording of the facebook convo.* *98% sure no cheating remember??*


*She has tried alot to be thoughtful of me and buy things for me.*_That is not a sign of remorse. Its a sign of guilt..
She knows she has dodged a bullet.And there is more to the story. And now is trying to easy
Her own guilt, buying thing´s to make her self feel better. By overcompensating. Remorse is shown in a different way.. _


*I really can't think of anything else she can do to prove herself.*_How about she start explaining how she will manage
To cope living in that ****ty town all of a sudden??
Job wise,not looking good.Town is crap,and all the reason she gave you.Whats going to be different now?_




*I am seriously considering this, but I am confident with a 98% accuracy that the first time there was no cheating,* 
*Why only 98%?? Should you not be 100%?*[/B]

*I asked her again like 30 minutes ago, and she explained the story down to the smallest detail and she never looked to her right (the side that makes up the story.) So either she is an absolute master of deception or she is actually...honest.*

_Read my first post_

*The shutting down the other guys relatioship, i agree with you. It technically dosen't involve me, **Why not? Did she tell you it was over between you two? *[/COLOR*]but it really is messed up and makes me wonder about her a little.*
_Again why? Your convinced she did not cheat right?_

*I just want the facts to be read right, and some poeple are misunderstanding a little.* *Sorry my friend .You are the only one guilty of that.. To put it very bluntly she has been cheating on you all along
Untill she was cought..Hence all your problem´s..Seem´s magically have gone away..

Here is some thing that is clouding your judgment*

*For 3.5 years we really "got" each other, we even say the same thing at the same time incredibly often. We have the same interests, and we have always connected together very well. In a way that is hard to come by*

_So why haven’t you married her by now?? I know i would.And i did with my ex-wife
she cheated btw_



*To be quite honest our sex is scalding hot. I have never been with someone so fufilling sexually and feel that I may never be able to again.*
*And?? So you mean that ensures no one ever cheats then?
This is the biggest reason, that clouds your judgment.*

*feel she does generally care about me, but she seems to have issues to work out. I think she might be a bit of an excitement/attention junkie when she feels bad about herself,*

_You already know why she has issues? Don’t you ? counsiling may help.Not very likely ,because there are no issues at least the way you think she has. Ever wondered
For 3.5 years all that you described ..How She developed “all this issues Now”? Do you really think that a few set backs
Work wise is the reason?? Come on man._


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Is it really only worth forgiving someone if your married to them?


I think the term relationship experts use for girls like your GF is "pump and dump." She's a good time girl. Get all the 3-somes you can out of her and have a good time with her and the women she brings home. When its time to grow up and settle down, drop this one and find somebody decent. Never, ever marry a girl like this, whatever you do.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Not as toxic as your comments, I thought this was a place for help, not for insults.
> Go crawl back to your hole. I have no patience for trolls


You need a dose of reality about women. Time to free your mind from all the propaganda that's been fed to you. Go here to Roissy's and start reading. Right away, you'll find some things that should ring a bell in your mind.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your SO is an incredibly ****ty person even without the infidelity. Kick her out now. She is an incredibly entitled and a selfish person. Cybering with someone and exposing him after the rejection are HUGE HUGE red flags. 

She won't change and things won't improve. Her apologies won't last long. You are still in the "shock" phase. The anger will soon start showing up.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> You might be right, it was my idea after all. I guess I felt like an idiot about what happened and that doing that might make it better, since I never got to do that and everytime I hear 3-some, I want to throw up. (Though I could replace a bad mental cognitation with a better one.)
> 
> Not into open marriage or anything like that either, there would be nothing of the sort after.
> 
> ...



It is your choice to stay with her but just don't lie to yourself. Infidelity need not be physical


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Actually you both aren't marriage material. Maybe later. Not now. Not when you both have not yet established healthy boundaries.

Or, you could get married to each other and have a very exciting life. It most likely wont be peaceful or content.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Ok the last few posts have been very helpful.

It has been a month, I may be in the "shock" phase tight now and I go in and out of being in love with her and resenting her.

As for the first time i'll explain in more detail, we were fighting at the time and she was talking to this guy until late he next morning. When she came back home and the whole incident of her hiding her phone started a big fight, she fb him later that day and the full convo said to this guy that we were fighting, that other guy asked if it had anything to do with him and she said that I didn't know who he was, so that wasn't it. Her story checks out, but I say 98% accurate, because she just might be a master of deception, (Somehow I doubt it, but who knows.)

One thing is for certain right now, I am not marrying this girl for a long while, if even at all. She is being pretty immature over the last 8 months, like some hellish demon spawned from the person I loved. I have scoured her phone and e-mail and fb and _nothing_ of this sort has ever happened for 3.5 years. But all of a sudden things changed for the worst 8 months ago.

Here's how it works in my mind, there are two potential different versions to this woman. There is the version that wants commitment and is excited to marry me and dreams about it, along with finding a decent job in her career and sharing a life with kids and all of that kind of thing. There is another version, however, that is selfish and wants to experience things while she is still "young" and is jealous of other girls that go out and do crazy things, (She dosen't have the best of friends to look up to, actually.) (Also, unfortunetly, she hasn't made any other real friends since we moved here, these girl she met are the few from her school program and they just happened to be the worst type of person.)

Here's the relationship in a nutshell, for the first 3.5 years she was the "committed loving" type. In the last 8 months, she was depressed the entire time, had suicidal thoughts and her "friends" pulled her into their lifestyle and she became the other "woman" and became very selfish and started idolizing these other girls who constantly cheat on their boyfriends and do stupid sexual things. They had more pull, because the image she had of where we were going in the relationship had shattered during those 8 months.

I talk to her constantly about these things and scour all sorts of information to find out if she is the commited woman who fell into depression and needs help desperatly to get back on track or has she been the selfish person looking for trouble all along and was just posing as committed for 3.5 years.

We have already done 2 sessions of MC and doing the third later today, I'm hoping that maybe I can find the answers there. We still live together, but I'm still trying to keep a watchful eye and see whether or not this person is worth salvaging. I may just completely fall out of love with her, regardless I she is worth salvaging. 

Maybe the question I want answered is not if I should leave or not. Maybe it is more like: "Is 3.5 years of the best time ever enough to work through 8 months of the worst time ever, or is she a problem worth fixing?" I think it is unfair to make snap judgements to exile someone out of your life that you spent a significant time with. That dosen't mean that I can't seriously think about it for awhile and _still_ leave her.

Someone asked about polygraphs, aren't those really unreliable? I've had no experience with them so I don't know. As for STD's don't worry I'm getting checked, can't be too careful these days, she is also getting checked too. 

I guess my attitude is to use diligence, see how I feel for her and the situation, try out MC and see what happens. I may just get out of the shock phase and into anger, (which I think I kind of have, but maybe not.) maybe the relationship won't last after that. Maybe it will. I don't know right now. I want to read about other people's situations on this site for inspiration, I will lurk here for awhile. I still need time to think I guess. I know how some people feel on this thread and part of me feels the same way, it's an inner conflict in my mind of two sides battling it out, who will win?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Here is where i made a mistake when trying to reconcile with my ex wife
So take this for what its worth

Your wrote
*Here's the relationship in a nutshell, for the first 3.5 years she was the "committed loving" type.
*
*Maybe the question I want answered is not if I should leave or not. Maybe it is more like: "Is 3.5 years of the best time ever enough to work through 8 months of the worst time ever, or is she a problem worth fixing?" I think it is unfair to make snap judgements to exile someone out of your life that you spent a significant time with.* I thought the same as you.. But in mine case at least. I focused to much on the past. I figured out to late that was not the question at hand.(the past is the past for a reason) The future was/ ,and is.So the past no matter how great it was(it deserves to be taken in to account)turned out It clouded my judgment. Basically I was basing a lot of my decision on the
Past. When decision’s should have been more future .




Just a tought


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> Here is where i made a mistake when trying to reconcile with my ex wife
> So take this for what its worth
> 
> Your wrote
> ...


Your absolutely right, I guess we use the past as a measuring stick for the future. 

I know people can change at any given time, for example when we first had issues I was a terrible angry mess, I broke things, I was incredibly immature. 

Recently, when I actually caught her, I didn't do anything. Nothing broken, no violence. I have learned from my previous experience. I believe that with effort or a significant event, we can learn and change, sometimes for the better and *unfortunetly* sometimes for the worst.

I guess I need to peer into our potential future and judge whether or not it is worth getting over the past for.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You keep trying to explain away her actions as being cause by circumstance and others.

You are denying to very real fact that in each case of betrayal she has willingly chose to do them. In fact it sounds like she jumped in willingly with both feet.

This isn't someone who happened to end up in anther persons bed by circumstance. She chose to jump into it.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

If you marry her, you'll kick yourself during that dreaded expensive divorce wondering why you didn't take the advice on TAM. 

Once you marry, 1/2 your assets becomes hers. I'm not saying she'll be fair, but you never know. She's throwing you MAJOR RED FLAGS! I had these flags thrown in my face before my first marriage. It was an awful marriage and my ex h continued to cheat and do illegal drugs. I left and divorced him. Huge lesson learned--- You can not change someone to who you want them to be.

She's going to continue to cheat and maybe do illegal drugs. Those are huge and major deal breakers for me.

Run from this woman! There are many of us who adore our husbands that do not do drugs and cheat!


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You keep trying to explain away her actions as being cause by circumstance and others.
> 
> You are denying to very real fact that in each case of betrayal she has willingly chose to do them. In fact it sounds like she jumped in willingly with both feet.
> 
> This isn't someone who happened to end up in anther persons bed by circumstance. She chose to jump into it.


I know that, when does it ever happen "by circumstance", a woman always knows what she is getting into before this happens. It a hard truth. In fact everyone on this site who has been cheated on knows that it dosen't "just happen".

The circumstances I speak of are the ones the changed her personality. She is at fault here, not her friends or the circumstance. However, she had changed in the last 8 months. I'm wondering I guess if she can learn and change back to who she was.

We've addressed solutions to her problems, like never associating herself with those friends, she is actually going back to school to pursue something else she is interested in, so her career problem might be fixed.

I may come of as making excuses for her, but I'm not. It's difficult to express yourself properly in forums sometimes.

I know this is her fault, many people here know their spouse is at fault, but decided that reconciling was a good idea and became happy in the end. I'm wondering if that is for me or not.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> If you marry her, you'll kick yourself during that dreaded expensive divorce wondering why you didn't take the advice on TAM.
> 
> Once you marry, 1/2 your assets becomes hers. I'm not saying she'll be fair, but you never know. She's throwing you MAJOR RED FLAGS!  I had these flags thrown in my face before my first marriage. It was an awful marriage and my ex h continued to cheat and do illegal drugs. I left and divorced him. Huge lesson learned--- You can not change someone to who you want them to be.
> 
> ...


Illegal drugs aren't really a problem for me, it's more a constant usage or addiction. I can't fault someone for trying it, but constant use will only deteriorate her and our relationship, that is what I was afraid of. There were no signs of constant use so it was never an issue after all.

These kind of things happen in marriages and people get through them, right? I get that you can't change people to be exactly who you want to be. But she was the perfect person for me for 3.5 years and then she changed, is it really impossible for someone to change back? People can change, but it is entirely up _to them_ if they want to change. I can't do anything about it. She has shown alot of effort to get things back to the way they were 8 months ago. This is why i'm observing right now, i'm not 100% on reconcilation yet. I'm waiting to see how this plays out. I'm not marrying her anytime soon, that would be foolish. I may not marry her after all. I'm taking my time and trying not to get to huffy and just leave her because I'm upset. I'm trying to be smart and diligent.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Love is a powerful emotion and a great gift for those that experience it. It is even a greater gift if love is reciprocated and shared. However, love between two people exposes the heart and allows for greater joy. But exposure also makes it vulnerable to unbearable pain, humiliation, and heartache . 

At the moment you are considering a commitment to expose your heart for the purpose of greater joy. But the possibility of future wrenching pain seems more likely given the activities of the last 8 months. You indicate you believe your gf is turning the corner and casting aside those things that caused her to act in such hurtful ways so you are considering forgiveness. 

Heartfelt and true forgiveness - whether earned or not, is a gift that can be a product of love. And you seem to want to do that. Good for you. 

I know me. 
You know you. 
Me? I would likely forgive if what you say about her is true. However I would not soon forget. I know I would be very concerned the next time I was out of town on business (which seems to be a necessity in your case too). 

Forgiveness does not mean you "cut" - "Take two" and "reshoot the last scene". The scene is shot and in the can. Again, Me? I forgive, take a healthy break from the relationship give it time to crystallize and reevaluate in a few months. 

My long-winded advice: Re-evaluate, don't be hasty. If you plan on moving forward to marriage tell your gf that you will insist on an ironclad prenup.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Love is a powerful emotion and a great gift for those that experience it. It is even a greater gift if love is reciprocated and shared. However, love between two people exposes the heart and allows for greater joy. But exposure also makes it vulnerable to unbearable pain, humiliation, and heartache .
> 
> At the moment you are considering a commitment to expose your heart for the purpose of greater joy. But the possibility of future wrenching pain seems more likely given the activities of the last 8 months. You indicate you believe your gf is turning the corner and casting aside those things that caused her to act in such hurtful ways so you are considering forgiveness.
> 
> ...


Wow, you totally get it. Exactly my thoughts.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I forgot to mention that I recommend you print Jonesey's posts and keep them in a journal which you read from time to time. 
Good stuff there.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Lightning, if you only knew what cheaters are capable of. It gets like this and it gets worse. Consider yourself lucky to find out before marriage and not decades after, or finding out that some of your kids are not yours and then really having to consider workinf it out as an option. Right now, you know DEEP DOWN inside you know you should run, and when you do and your mind dust settles a little and you are able to see clearer you will realize that you did a good thing for yourself. 
Save yourself the regret and leave this toxic woman who has friends which only exagerbate her infidelity and immaturity. Find a woman that moves you, drives you, that really loves you. Have enough self respect to KNOW that you deserve better and realize that there IS better. You have your own faults and that is why you need a woman who can make up for your faults. At the moment you are focusing too much on the smal chance that you have to make this work and it may be possible but not plausible. You will be marrying a person who cannot control their actions/addictions. Dont babysit for the rest of your life or live in constant paranoia or constantly looking to see if you have been betrayed....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> She has shown alot of effort to get things back to the way they were 8 months ago.


This will never happen because she can't be unfvcked by those other men.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> She even agrees to allow to have a 3-some with her and another girl to "make up" for it.


Well, to be quite honest, this wouldn't make it up for it. She shouldn't be present at all as you weren't with her threesome. So, to be fair, you should hook up with two other women without her knowing and have a threesome. Let her know, you will advise her after it takes place.

Sex is great? I know all about what that means. Unfortunately (or fortunately in some cases, just not yours), if you add great sex with time and committed relationship, children usually come along

What do you think is going to happen when you two have a few little ones and she is having a hard go at it? Are you ready to be a parent to your children while she goes out and plays around because she is struggling?

I mean absolutely no disrespect, but how old are you? Great sex is, well, great but that is not what is required to keep a relationship healthy and happy. This is especially true when she goes out and has great sex with people other than you. As you well know, this causes relationships not to be healthy and happy.

I am sorry you are going through this but I see the incident that you broke the plate over as the one chance she had to set her priorities straight with you. That resulted in a threesome. What is next? I don't think you want to know.

One more thing...



lightninghelix said:


> During the time we were "separated" her and a lover from the past had cyber sex. When that guy wouldn't go to see her for a date, she went vindictive and sabotaged the relationship that that guy had with his girlfirend.


You need to read and then read again the above quote. She cybers with a past lover and when he realizes he shouldn't be meeting up with her she destroys his relationship out of pure vindictiveness? You listen up hun, your woman that provides great sex is a mean *****. She does what she wants when she wants. She doesn't care who it hurts. If someone tries to stop her getting what she wants she decides to do whatever she can to get revenge. Remember this if you decide to stay with her as one day it will eventually be you who crosses her. I hope you can take her sense of fair play.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cheating isn't out of character for her because she did it and more than once so clearly it is in her character. When someone shows you who they truly are, you need to see it not rationalize it, attribute another explanation to it. You ignore red flags like that at your peril. Your post brings to mind the old quote, "there are none so blind as those who will not see." 

Don't go for the person you think you can change. You can't ever change someone. Go for the person you can trust just as she is today.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> This will never happen because she can't be unfvcked by those other men.


:iagree: Coooold bloooded truth.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> This will never happen because she can't be unfvcked by those other men.


I'm guessing forgiveness is not a word in your dictionary? To my and _to your_ knowledge this only happened once. Making other assumptions and stating them as giving me some sort of "reality check" is not blunt, it is stupid and one-sided.

Let's stick with the facts people. Go ahead and speculate, but that adds nothing to the discussion.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

People reconcile when they've built a life together and however much people dress it up, the main reason is because they have kids, I'm guessing you don't have any. So its best to cut your losses and move on. 

PS:Or you can have that threesome she owes you and still break up, nothing like stealing cake from a cake eater


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> People reconcile when they've built a life together and however much people dress it up, the main reason is because they have kids, I'm guessing you don't have any. So its best to cut your losses and move on.
> 
> PS:Or you can have that threesome she owes you and still break up, nothing like stealing cake from a cake eater


So reconciling because you love the person you married is a no no? Only kids keep things together?

Is there really anything wrong with my position of taking my time to decide to reconcile or not? Is that not the smartest decision? I can leave at anytime. I can leave tomorrow or in 2 months, result is more or less the same.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> I'm guessing forgiveness is not a word in your dictionary? To my and _to your_ knowledge this only happened once. Making other assumptions and stating them as giving me some sort of "reality check" is not blunt, it is stupid and one-sided.
> 
> Let's stick with the facts people. Go ahead and speculate, but that adds nothing to the discussion.


Seems like you've already made up your mind to forgive your cheating fiancee. I'm thinking that the reason you are so willing to forgive her is because you have a 'secret' yourself that you haven't shared with us.

I don't know you personally and what you do does not impact me. You came here asking for advice and that's what we're giving you. You may agree with said advice or you may choose to disagree but, in the immortal words of Al Gore: 'You don't have to get so snippy.'

Good luck.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> So reconciling because you love the person you married is a no no? Only kids keep things together?
> 
> Is there really anything wrong with my position of taking my time to decide to reconcile or not? Is that not the smartest decision? I can leave at anytime. I can leave tomorrow or in 2 months, result is more or less the same.


It seems you already have made the decision.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> So reconciling because you love the person you married is a no no? Only kids keep things together?
> 
> Is there really anything wrong with my position of taking my time to decide to reconcile or not? Is that not the smartest decision? I can leave at anytime. I can leave tomorrow or in 2 months, result is more or less the same.


There is nothing wrong in that at all. Many of us are in the process of that right now. Of course people stay in relationships where infidelity strikes with no kids.

But you are missing the obvious. Your first post puts more emotion into the great sex than you do into describing how much you love her or how wonderful of a person she is.

You brush over one of the most important parts of the story as it were nothing, her destroying her past lover's relationship because he would not physically have sex with her.

You brush over the fact that she has created a pattern of behavior that is over the top. It also contains no regard for you whatsoever.

Take your time. I think the worse thing we betrayed people can do is to rush into anything. But when you discover that her behavior continues do not die of shock. We certainly won't.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Seems like you've already made up your mind to forgive your cheating fiancee. I'm thinking that the reason you are so willing to forgive her is because you have a 'secret' yourself that you haven't shared with us.
> 
> I don't know you personally and what you do does not impact me. You came here asking for advice and that's what we're giving you. You may agree with said advice or you may choose to disagree but, in the immortal words of Al Gore: 'You don't have to get so snippy.'
> 
> Good luck.


You're right about that, maybe I had different expectations when I came here. There just seems to be too many people making blunt statements, as if I'm not aware of things. Part of me agrees with what you say, but it comes off as so angry that it comes off as insulting.

I guess it didn't feel like advise to me and more like insults. Maybe I thought someone here had some brillant idea to help me figure this out that I haven't already thought of. Leaving is definetly one thing I have thought of.

I'm assuming you are on here because something similar happened to you. How did you deal with it exactly?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

lightninghelix;1102631[B said:


> ]Your absolutely right, I guess we use the past as a measuring stick for the future. [/B]
> 
> so true especially after an affair..
> But try not to focus so much on the past.Like said beforeThe past is in the past for a reason..All we have from the past is
> ...


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Falene said:


> There is nothing wrong in that at all. Many of us are in the process of that right now. Of course people stay in relationships where infidelity strikes with no kids.
> 
> But you are missing the obvious. Your first post puts more emotion into the great sex than you do into describing how much you love her or how wonderful of a person she is.
> 
> ...


That is personal bias at work right now. I brushed over the good things about our relationship, because well....frankly i'm pissed. So personal bias gets in the way. I guess it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that everyone reacts this way, when i just talk about the poor points.

There is alot more to our relationship than what I listed. I think i would have to write a book to tell the other side.

I guess in the end only I truly have enough information to judge our relationship accurately. Even though it came with some animosity, it was good to come here and talk about it.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> lightninghelix;1102631[B said:
> 
> 
> > ]Your absolutely right, I guess we use the past as a measuring stick for the future. [/B]
> ...


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> That is personal bias at work right now. I brushed over the good things about our relationship, because well....frankly i'm pissed. So personal bias gets in the way. I guess it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that everyone reacts this way, when i just talk about the poor points.
> 
> There is alot more to our relationship than what I listed. I think i would have to write a book to tell the other side.
> 
> I guess in the end only I truly have enough information to judge our relationship accurately. Even though it came with some animosity, it was good to come here and talk about it.


Personal bias at work? Again, how old are you? Seriously...how old are you? 

I wish my situation was like yours. Three and a half years with no kids, more than one affair, a threesome, intentionally wrecking someone out of nothing but pure meanness? I wish my partner was as crystal clear as yours.

Go have a happy! I truly hope it all works out for you as I do for everyone in your position. Make sure you have everything in place that will up the chances of your relationship mending.

Please do come back and let us know how your threesome went as I personally believe that you will pay a price for your threesome she never had to pay for hers. I also believe that may be all you are really thinking about! lol


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It sounds like you want people to tell you how great she is an d to keep at it. At TAM, we call it like we see it. 

Your fiance is not ready for a committed relationship. At all. IMO, she IS a serial cheat. The FB guy--you can BET something happened if he was saying to tell you he was gay and they were hanging til almost 5 a.m. sometimes, hiding her phone from you. The other story about going vindictive to the guy who she was scheming with--really tells you all you need to know about her. Then, after betraying you nearly twice, she goes an d has a three some with some random dude, her girlfriend and tells you it was because she was "lonely."

Get tested for STDs at minimum. If you want to stay with her and get married, have at it. But just know you are walking into a minefield of lies with someone who does not value you. Or at least, doesn't value commitment to you.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Falene said:


> Personal bias at work? Again, how old are you? Seriously...how old are you?
> 
> I wish my situation was like yours. Three and a half years with no kids, more than one affair, a threesome, intentionally wrecking someone out of nothing but pure meanness? I wish my partner was as crystal clear as yours.
> 
> ...


For the last time there was only one affair.

I agreed with MattMatt earlier that the 3-some idea was not a very good one to progress further. There will be no 3-some, (honestly, I don't think I'm really capable of it.)

Lately I've been talking alot to my fiancee and the MC and have been in pure honest detailed mode for awhile. I forgot that I'm on the internet, where people can judge you real easily based on what you say.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

One affair? There are two types of affairs.

EA=Emotional Affair

PA=Physical Affair

You decide what is what:

Facebook Guy (The one that said to tell you he was gay)

CyberSex Guy (This is the one that when she was so devastated over breaking up with you she decided to webcam and ruin his life because he would not meet up with her).

Man From The Bar (The one she made out with at the bar)

Threesome

You want to count it as one affair, it is your score you are keeping so feel free. Us, we see a pattern of behavior. Just so you are clear, when we women break up with the man we love we do not tend to behave as she did. We tend to mope, eat too much chocolate, drink too much and not shave our legs. Just saying.

I am glad you figured out you are on the internet and we can say anything we want. The good part of that is that it stays in cyberspace. What you are saying to yourself is actually going to impact your life. That is where our worry is with you.

One last time, I don't give up easily, how old are you?


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> It sounds like you want people to tell you how great she is an d to keep at it. At TAM, we call it like we see it.
> 
> Your fiance is not ready for a committed relationship. At all. IMO, she IS a serial cheat. The FB guy--you can BET something happened if he was saying to tell you he was gay and they were hanging til almost 5 a.m. sometimes, hiding her phone from you. The other story about going vindictive to the guy who she was scheming with--really tells you all you need to know about her. Then, after betraying you nearly twice, she goes an d has a three some with some random dude, her girlfriend and tells you it was because she was "lonely."
> 
> Get tested for STDs at minimum. If you want to stay with her and get married, have at it. But just know you are walking into a minefield of lies with someone who does not value you. Or at least, doesn't value commitment to you.


No, I wasn't expecting people to think she is great.

I'm just looking to discuss with people who are dealing with/ dealt with this kind of situation. Maybe I'm just impatient for my next MC and used this forum as my own "therapy". Some people have been very helpful, some a little less.

Maybe some of you are right. Maybe I'm incredibly delusional. I don't know for sure. (This is an internet forum after all.) I can't talk from experience, because well...this has never happened to me before. Maybe experience will have to be my teacher. Knowing this, I am not getting hitched anytime soon. 

Any relationship has the chance of cheating, that why we are all here. The problem and situations may be different, but we deal with them in the way we think is best for us. We are all looking for peace of mind and take different paths to achieve it. But we don't know what leads down each path before we take it. Reconciling, in my case, may be the best choice for me. It may lead back to who we are as a couple. It could also lead to ruin and the possibility of getting hurt again. So I have to be prepared for both outcomes. Getting married is not a good idea right now, that is a certainty. A couple of years of transparency and working on issues we have in our lives, may build back what was destroyed.

But who knows? Maybe the sh*t will crash on my head again and then, well i'm gone. I give it 2 years for her too prove herself. (Guess reconciling is something I want to try afterall.)


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Falene said:


> One affair? There are two types of affairs.
> 
> EA=Emotional Affair
> 
> ...


Man at the bar and fb guy was same guy. We were "broken up" or "separated." for awhile (sorry for the misunderstanding.) when she had made out with him and had the cyber sex. I just talked about it because it bothered me.

and I'm 25 to let you know.

The cybersex thing she didn't start however, someone saw that she became single temporairly and decided to start it (I actually saw the convo.) . Part of me is angry that she ent along with it, part of me thinks it shouldn't be my concern because we weren't "technically" together at the time.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> No, I wasn't expecting people to think she is great.
> 
> I'm just looking to discuss with people who are dealing with/ dealt with this kind of situation. Maybe I'm just impatient for my next MC and used this forum as my own "therapy". Some people have been very helpful, some a little less.
> 
> ...


This post sound much more like clear-minded thinking than your first few posts.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You would have us believe that her first affair was a threesome with TWO WOMEN and a man.

So she just goes straight into the equivilent of Mexican Cliff Diving on her first foray jumping into the pool.

What exactly was her sexual experience before you?

You came her with frankly unrealistic expectations. What you really wanted to ask was 'how do I get over this?'

What the people are answering is 'should I be trying to get over this." The answer to the second question is a resounding no.

But let me answer the first question:

You ignore what went on before. Just totally surpress it. Yell at a tree. Don't talk about it in the house. Put it totally behind you. It happened in another life.

Because the girl you knew for 3.5 years is now gone. She entered a flesh cocoon and transmorgrified into THIS.

Now you are in a relationship with THIS.

THIS is a sexually promiscuous girl who has no qualms with threesomes, being vindictive to people who reject her, and has a history of lying and deceit.

So play the role of the man who is dating THAT girl. Be watchful and wary. Treat her exactly as if you CHOOSE to date that woman instead of had her inflicted upon you by her change. How would you date such a woman?

Treat her that way.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> This post sound much more like clear-minded thinking than your first few posts.


Talking about it helps figure yourself out.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

JCD said:


> You would have us believe that her first affair was a threesome with TWO WOMEN and a man.
> 
> So she just goes straight into the equivilent of Mexican Cliff Diving on her first foray jumping into the pool.
> 
> ...


I never ignored what went on before, in fact I asked like the 400th time last night. 

I know it was with another girl and a guy because I saw the convo between her and her "friend", her friend being female.

Like I said though you may be right, she may never change back, she may remain THIS forever. If that is the case then I need to leave. Only time and some effort will tell. Not really interested in just _using_ her like some people are suggesting, not my style.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> She's experimented with cocaine, cheated on you with as assortment of men, and participated in a _menage à trois_. .





lightninghelix said:


> _To be fair I requested it_. (the 3 some and specifically her and another girl.)


Sounds like Lightning's main concern is that in her menage a trois, he's wasn't getting any of the _à trois_.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Lightning im not sure if you are on here to listen to advice. Your methods will not work, they have not worked and you will look back at the first few posts of this thread after 20 pages and realize how erroneous you were. Please dont let yourself come back to this website after you are married. Your relationship is not made of love. Thats not love and if you really loved her you wouldnt act that way either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Sounds like Lightning's main concern is that in her menage a trois, he's wasn't getting any of the _à trois_.


Not my main concern, but If she wanted to experiment with that she should have talked to me about it.

EDIT: I can tell not everyone has read this thread, understandable as it is long as heck now. But some people aren't reading into things properly. Oh well..


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've never been married so you can't know how much being married is different from being in a relationship or engaged.

Marriage doesn't just mean the legalities. It's a mindset. It's expectations. It's a lot of hope for the future.

I believe that you need to stack the deck as much in your favor when you marry. Marriage can be hard enough. Why set yourself up for pain and heartache?

The person you choose to marry should be someone you love, trust and admire. The heartbreaking threads on this forum derive so much from the betrayal of those three things.

Your fiance isn't a great 'bet' for you for marriage, but the heart wants what it wants. You may marry her & things could be great. But the chances are that they won't be because the deck is already stacked against you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Should you leave or stay?

Stay. Make her leave. She's a cheater...born and bred.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Lightning im not sure if you are on here to listen to advice. Your methods will not work, they have not worked and you will look back at the first few posts of this thread after 20 pages and realize how erroneous you were. Please dont let yourself come back to this website after you are married. Your relationship is not made of love. Thats not love and if you really loved her you wouldnt act that way either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't act in what way exactly?

What is wrong with my methods exactly?

Sorry, but I need clarification, not just blunt statements.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Alte dame, just because one has never experienced something does not mean that one is ignorant. I agree that OP is trying to play a bad hand with horrible odds relying on the river card. I enjoy poker alte dame 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> You've never been married so you can't know how much being married is different from being in a relationship or engaged.
> 
> Marriage doesn't just mean the legalities. It's a mindset. It's expectations. It's a lot of hope for the future.
> 
> ...


Now that is something I can relate to!

But even when you got a bad hand, and there's no need to bet right now, you can just "check" to gain more information first right?

In a sense, that is what I'm doing. I know it's a bad hand, but I don't have to bet just yet. I can wait.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How old is your fiance?



lightninghelix said:


> No, I wasn't expecting people to think she is great.
> 
> I'm just looking to discuss with people who are dealing with/ dealt with this kind of situation.


You are in good hands. Nearly everyone who posts regularly in Coping with Infidelity has been touched by infidelity, whether they were the cheater or the one cheated on (or both).


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Alte dame, just because one has never experienced something does not mean that one is ignorant. I agree that OP is trying to play a bad hand with horrible odds relying on the river card. I enjoy poker alte dame
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree completely. Not ignorant, just untested. There are so many things in life that we have to personally experience to really understand, no? Agree that it doesn't mean we don't take chances, just that we go in accepting maybe that we don't really understand.

(I like poker, but have a crappy poker face...)


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Now that is something I can relate to!
> 
> But even when you got a bad hand, and there's no need to bet right now, you can just "check" to gain more information first right?
> 
> In a sense, that is what I'm doing. I know it's a bad hand, but I don't have to bet just yet. I can wait.


Fair enough. Information is power, they say. Talking about this helps you think and decide and you should be commended for that, I think.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Agree completely. Not ignorant, just untested. There are so many things in life that we have to personally experience to really understand, no? Agree that it doesn't mean we don't take chances, just that we go in accepting maybe that we don't really understand.
> 
> (I like poker, but have a crappy poker face...)


Yes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> (1) *she felt it easy to move away and have some long distance thing*.).
> 
> *I agree; not good that she felt it was OK to move away from her fiance; also, not good that you are not willing to consider moving for her, given that you acknowledge that she has no opportunities where you are; you both have to be happy for your relationship to work.*
> 
> ...


If you continue with her, make her demonstrate to you that she really wants you and is not settling because she seems like the type who will not leave you until she has someone else.

At a minimum, she must dump the friends who are messing with your relationship.

Instead of having a three-way for revenge, I suggest that her consequences consist of more relationship commitment-friendly actions, such as dumping the friends, handwriting a letter of apology to you, throwing away all clothes she wore while on her "dates" and during her threesome, blocking all other men (old boyfriend, bar guy, and threesome guy) on facebook, deleting them from her contacts, and possibly, depending on the circumstances, handwriting no contact letters to them. She should not be in bars at night without you. You should have access to her phone and facebook.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Was the sex protected? Did she get tested for STDs? Did you?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> I wouldn't act in what way exactly?
> 
> What is wrong with my methods exactly?
> 
> Sorry, but I need clarification, not just blunt statements.


You think a bit of marriage counseling will make her change back into that sweet sweet girl you knew before.

I'm sorry, but that won't happen. The sweet sweet girl didn't have a screenplay of infidelity which you read on her facebook account.

She didn't create a mental porn movie for you to enjoy late at night.

There are two possibilities here:

That the girl you 'knew' for 3.5 years wasn't who you knew. She was always this potentially deceitful, vindictive and loose and you are just discovering this now.

The other is that she slipped her moral tether. She emotionally fooled around on you once and, pay attention here, LEFT you even though she supposedly knew she didn't do anything wrong. She messed up another man's relationship (and another woman's, don't forget) She came back to you and CHEATED on you with a PA. And not just a generic "I got drunk/mad/lost and had a quickie that I quickly regerted'. No, she went full bore Olympic Quality Sex cheating.

So it isn't just a question of IF she can retie to her moral tether. It's 'does she want to?'.

So far the answer is questionable at best.

BTW: Calling everything you don't like a 'blunt statement' doesn't win you any points with us either. Nuance does not translate well over the internet so plain speaking is generally the rule here.

The problem with plain speaking is...it's plain. Which means efforts to preserve your feelings just don't work.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> EDIT: I can tell not everyone has read this thread, understandable as it is long as heck now. But some people aren't reading into things properly. Oh well..


Maybe not Lightning. In my case, definitely not, although I did read a lot of it. But its like my granddaddy use to advise, "if they're doing something that bugs you when you're going with them, you can bet it'll be ten time worse once you marry um."


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> I'm guessing forgiveness is not a word in your dictionary? To my and _to your_ knowledge this only happened once. Making other assumptions and stating them as giving me some sort of "reality check" is not blunt, it is stupid and one-sided.
> 
> Let's stick with the facts people. Go ahead and speculate, but that adds nothing to the discussion.


Considering your responses to some of the rude replies, I think you are a reasonable man.

Yes, people do forgive their wayward spouses and go on to have good relationships. yes, it could be the case with yoou but it is a very risky bet, considering it was not a one off case. It was a continuation of 8 months of continued cruely which culminated in her threeway. Which I find it hard to believe was her first time.

Remember, she need not journal every incident of her infidelities online. She could have deleted these messages at any time but was complacent this time(and you were lucky to find out) or they was never a record about them(she was ashamed to share them even with them). Absence of records isn't proof of absence of infidelity in this case. just keep that in mind.


You said she was a happy and a honest person for 3.5 years and was sh!tty only for the last 8 months. Things you have to consider is if this is the real her that was revealed in times of stress and her nice person act is just saved when everything is good ? That is what dating is for right ? You check out the compatibilities with your partner for the long run. Things might(will) definitely get more sh!ttier down the road. Can you trust this woman with your back at those time ? That is what a life pertner is for. Remember,no one is perfect but there are certain actions that should be deal breakers. Infidelity is, for most people. It is the betrayal, more than the sexual act that is damaging. And she crossed the line repeatedly during these 8 montsh. 

Maybe, right now she is feeling guilty after getting caught. Who knows ? That is the problem with infidelity. You cannot trust her anymore. Every time she goes out with her friends and returns late, the doubt will be eating at you. Ay time he phones goes offline for a few hours, you will get paranoi. 

Also remember, she got caught. She never confessed and she never would have. She does not have the initiative to reveal any more. This will be the woman you will be making some long term decisions with. keep that in mind.

Read about "Sunk cost fallacy". The good times spent with her shouldn't be the only reason to stay with her.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You need to realize that the cheating doesn't start just if things progress to physical, to penetration or what ever. It starts long, long before that, with the first thought that my significant other wouldn't like this, is better not tell them about it. What they should be thinking is my SO wouldn't like this, I'd better put a stop to it, end the nonsense right now, and let my SO know. It is a series of choices that cheaters make all the way along. And the reason they make these choices, the only real reason, is that they are selfish and they want to make these choices. That's it. It has nothing to do with you. Can you live with that?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You're wishing and hoping to turn back the clock on who she has chosen to grow into, and to turn her back into who she was a year or more ago.

Sorry, people and life don't work that way. It's not about forgiveness, it's about recognizing the true person she is, which is revealed by her choices, priorities, and associations. 

Are you the same person you where a year ago? What about when you where 18? No. You are the person you've grown to be. You are the person who you have become via your choices. So is she.

You're chasing a dream trying to return her to the non-cheating, non-drug using girl who once cared for you and had you as a priority in her life.

Oh, she may ditch the friends for a while. But those girls, those are the girls she gets along with. So even if this bunch go, a similar bunch will appear down the road. Except down the road you may have a ring, a mortgage, and kids - all of which you will be paying for.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Never seen a guy around here so willing to head to a train wreck... 

And what to say to the response to the threesome his cheating partner had? "I want one too"... ROFL...

This is basically what happens when a guy doesn't learn to distinguish between a woman to have fun with and a woman who is wife material. 

To the OP, you have lashed out at people being honest with you. People who have been there and seen it all. You talk about forgiveness, but have you realized that the question is that your woman has all the behaviors of a serial cheater and the thing is not about what you are willing to forgive (up to you) but whether you are willing to put up with this behavior continuously in the future (also up to you)?


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"In a sense, that is what I'm doing. I know it's a bad hand, but I don't have to bet just yet. I can wait."

for what .......... gonorrhea??


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Re. your comment in not all people having read your thread and you think your advice is biased - I have read your thread. I don't think I have commented on it yet. I agree with all the posters who say your fiance is cheating material, not wife. And yes, I believe from what you say that she has cheated more than once too.



It seems you are in denial due to your hurt and defensiveness at people's comments which seem pretty reasonable on the whole given what you are describing and your inability to see how the facts make for a pretty obvious scenario. And you seem to be almost/practically hiding from the obvious.

and you will give her 2 YEARS to prove her worth? Blimey! I would.hope you would know before that. I would also suggest that the most likely thing would be you discovering further cheats in that time. 

I hope you haven't let on to her about the methods you use in verifying she is being a good girl?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Move out. Give her room to be herself. Don't necessarily dump her or cancel the engagement. You are OBVIOUSLY unwilling to do that.

But get your own place and see how she acts when you aren't hanging over her shoulder constantly. It might be enlightening.

I mean REALLY. She doesn't even have enough boundaries to not send emotionally engaged emails to a guy she is making out and flirting with *NEXT TO YOU IN BED*

Think about that statement! Think about the level of disrespect that shows. "hee hee. I'm sending this guy a text about what I want to do with him next time I see him while my dork of a fiance is RIGHT NEXT TO ME."

What is next down the line? Oh...sorry. We already know that. Sexual activities in which you aren't invited and which you never got the benefit of.

Great.

Be ready for the suspicious cars sitting in front of your house when you drive home unexpectedly at this point.


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