# Does Healthy Sex Life Equate To A Happy Marriage?



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I just joined a few days ago and it has been interesting reading the different opinions of the members here. My question is, does a healthy sex life equate to a happy marriage (or maybe vice versa, a happy marriage leads to a healthy sex life)? Now obviously there is probably not one set definition of a healthy sex life in terms of frequently, likes/dislikes, etc... but I would guess a healthy sex life would mean where both people in the marriage are on the same page in terms of their sexual needs.

Part of why I ask this, I have been married for around 15 yrs. I have a beautiful wife, 3 beautiful/healthy young children, fortunate with my career where finances are currently not an issue. I have every reason in the world to be happy with my marriage, yet I find that I am not. My wife and I get along great, we rarely fight, we actually like each other. As I sort all this out in my head I keep going back to one thing though, sex. Sex was always an important part of our relationship, but as we had each kid the sex has gotten less frequent and the amount of time that goes by in between having sex has gotten greater. After our 3rd child (she is 20mos old now) we actually went over a year before we had sex again, and since then I would consider having sex 1-2x a month a good month (been close to a month now so guess I might be getting lucky any day now lol). There are no issues with the sex itself (wife and I agree that the sex is actually better now, more intense, no issues with Os, etc...). The biggest issue are the kids, and in particular my 3rd one who has been extremely difficult on my wife since day 1. By the time we finally get settled in it is usually late and my wife is usually wiped out. I completely understand what she is going through, try to help out as much as possible. Given what she is dealing with it is a sensitive issue in that I am not looking to force her to have more sex or put more on her than she is currently dealing with. On the other hand, having sex makes me feel so much closer to my wife, makes me want sex more (which in turn just leaves me frustrated when a month goes by, to the point where I would actually rather not have sex). Quite honestly, having sex once or maybe twice a month is just not enough for me. Right now I feel like I am living with a roommate and not a wife. We keep saying things have to get better, but like I said this has been slowly going downhill since we had our first kid, and really picked up steam after the 3rd. I am willing to be patient, but at what point do you start to worry that things are not going to change?

I should add as well, I do exercise a lot and am in very good shape (in particular of late to the point where the looks/smiles from females has picked up). This is not meant as bragging, but in the past I would usually brush this stuff off easily. Now though I find it just messes with my head even more (even thought about relocating to an all dudes gym lol). I have never acted on nor do I plan on pursuing anyone beyond saying hi back to or smiling back at someone who smiles at me (between my wife and daughter I have all the female I can handle!).

For those people who maybe aren't on the same page as their spouse in terms of sex, do you still feel like you are in a happy marriage? Or maybe sex is off b/c of other problems in the marriage? Do you just willingly accept this is how it is going to be? I have seen some people here obviously be upset about sex (or lack of), others who seem to be ok with the fact that their odds are better winning the lottery. I don't quite know where I stand currently. I am in no way looking to leave my wife, but I am not willing to accept that the best times of our marriage has already past.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I would say that a healthy sex life is necessary but not sufficient to have a happy marriage.

Note: this does not include cases where one partner is physically unable to have sex even after everything possible has been done to remedy that situation. In that event, I would make major allowances. But barring that, it's a necessity as far as I'm concerned.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

A healthy sex life is but one of the many components necessary for a happy marriage.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I should add as well,* I do exercise a lot and am in very good shape (in particular of late to the point where the looks/smiles from females has picked up).* This is not meant as bragging, but in the past I would usually brush this stuff off easily. Now though I find it just messes with my head even more (even thought about relocating to an all dudes gym lol). I have never acted on nor do I plan on pursuing anyone beyond saying hi back to or smiling back at someone who smiles at me (between my wife and daughter I have all the female I can handle!).


Be very careful with that...especially if you're not having sex with the frequency you're accustomed to. I can certainly appreciate the desire to relocate to an all male gym (fortunately I have my own home gym), but you're never going to be able to isolate yourself from women entirely. You're probably a much stronger man than I and you don't have the disorder I have been diagnosed with, but I'm just saying...be careful and cognizant. We never "plan" on cheating...but some of us (like me) find "affirmation" through the attention(s) of others.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Have you ever sat down with your wife, even prior to marriage, and made it clear what your sexual expectations for marriage are?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

MountainRunner said:


> Be very careful with that...especially if you're not having sex with the frequency you're accustomed to. I can certainly appreciate the desire to relocate to an all male gym (fortunately I have my own home gym), but you're never going to be able to isolate yourself from women entirely. You're probably a much stronger man than I and you don't have the disorder I have been diagnosed with, but I'm just saying...be careful and cognizant. We never "plan" on cheating...but some of us (like me) find "affirmation" through the attention(s) of others.


That is why I specifically brought up that point. I do realize that the reason now why I can't quite brush it off like I used to is b/c of lack of attention at home. TBH though, I am not worried that it would ever go any further, but it has been a battle in my head and not something I should take lightly, so I appreciate your view.



jaquen said:


> Have you ever sat down with your wife, even prior to marriage, and made it clear what your sexual expectations for marriage are?


Not per se. Sex was never an issue before we got married or even after we got married, we were always on the same page. We didn't even have kids until about 5 years into our marriage. The kids just changed the dynamic, and really the 3rd kid has been the big blow. Even now I know my wife wishes we had sex more, but with the kids and having a toddler attached at her hip for most of the day by the time the day is over she just wants to call it a night.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Any chance of dumping off all the kids and taking the wife on a romantic vacation? I think couples should do this at LEAST once per year and more often if they can afford it and have support for the kids.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

It's my belief that a healthy marriage will generally produce a healthy sex life. I believe sexual problems in a marriage are rarely an issue in and of themselves but normally are a symptom of a root cause(s) within the marriage itself. 

For example, say you have a "great marriage" in all things except intimacy, where you're lucky to have sex once per month. My first instinct would be to tell a poster to recheck his/her assumptions, because I would bet in most cases there is some tangible issue within the marriage itself that is causing the reduced libido that results in less intimacy. Maybe it's a parent throwing himself or herself too much into parenting and not setting time aside for husband and wife time (not just sex, but dating, private convos, etc). Or it may be that one spouse sucks at communicating and the other spouse feels walled off. Things like that can be root causes to libido killing.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Any chance of dumping off all the kids and taking the wife on a romantic vacation? I think couples should do this at LEAST once per year and more often if they can afford it and have support for the kids.


We did go away for a few days in December which was the first alone time we had in a long time. Really though, we have limited options as only my parents are local. Even so, they are divorced and both like to do their own thing instead of being those grandparents who revolve their lives around their grandkids (and they both still work as well). With our 3rd I would say in nearly 2 years we have spent a total of 5 nights away from her. The amount of alone time (or lack of) is undoubtedly part of the issue and something we are both trying to come up with solutions for (I took off from work today and 1 day last week just so my wife and I could go to lunch alone while the kids were at school/daycare).



Plan 9 from OS said:


> It's my belief that a healthy marriage will generally produce a healthy sex life. I believe sexual problems in a marriage are rarely an issue in and of themselves but normally are a symptom of a root cause(s) within the marriage itself.
> 
> For example, say you have a "great marriage" in all things except intimacy, where you're lucky to have sex once per month. My first instinct would be to tell a poster to recheck his/her assumptions, because I would bet in most cases there is some tangible issue within the marriage itself that is causing the reduced libido that results in less intimacy. Maybe it's a parent throwing himself or herself too much into parenting and not setting time aside for husband and wife time (not just sex, but dating, private convos, etc). Or it may be that one spouse sucks at communicating and the other spouse feels walled off. Things like that can be root causes to libido killing.


Agreed, one issue as I just mentioned above is that my wife and I get very little alone time. I am out of the house nearly 70 hours a week, so as soon as I get home it is a mad scramble to get the kids settled down, go to bed, and then ground hog day all over again.

Also, where my wife and I differ, I have an easy time letting things go. If I have a crappy day, it doesn't consume me, I can shut my brain off. My wife has a much harder time with this. The moment I see she has a bad stretch with my daughter I pretty much know all bets are off for the night as there is no coming back. With the 3 kids, the house, etc... she acknowledges that she can't just shut her brain off, and this undoubtedly comes into play in terms of us as a married couple.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Not per se. Sex was never an issue before we got married or even after we got married, we were always on the same page. We didn't even have kids until about 5 years into our marriage. The kids just changed the dynamic, and really the 3rd kid has been the big blow. Even now I know my wife wishes we had sex more, but with the kids and having a toddler attached at her hip for most of the day by the time the day is over she just wants to call it a night.


What's preventing you from sitting down with your wife and telling her that sex is important to you, reminding her that it's always been important to her, letting her know it's to the point where brushing off your needs as a couple for the sake of the children isn't working, and that changes must be made by both of you?

You're allowing your kids to ruin your intimacy and so is she. That must be addressed. And it must be addressed in the now, not some vague future.

Your wife is being swallowed alive by mommy mode. It happens to lots of great wives. Help rescue her. 

You're not doing anybody any favors by being the long suffering, silent husband. That's going to lead you nowhere good.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

jaquen said:


> What's preventing you from sitting down with your wife and telling her that sex is important to you, reminding her that it's always been important to her, letting her know it's to the point where brushing off your needs as a couple for the sake of the children isn't working, and that changes must be made by both of you?
> 
> You're allowing your kids to ruin your intimacy and so is she. That must be addressed. And it must be addressed in the now, not some vague future.
> 
> ...


At first when my daughter was born I figured it would just be a rough patch that we would get through. Things eventually got somewhat close to normal with our first two kids so I just expected the same. Nearly 2 years later and I was obviously wrong. 

I have gotten to the point where I was going to say something, and it would always be at a time where I could tell she was just done after dealing with the kids. I didn't want to come across as also saying "Hey, you have become a bad wife". 

Ya know, I don't exactly know what it is of late that kind of changed things for me. I mean, I had almost come to peace with the way things had become and the whole "it will eventually get better" mentality. Suddenly, for whatever reason though, everything just came to the surface. Maybe the good old mid life crisis popping its head?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I have gotten to the point where I was going to say something, and it would always be at a time where I could tell she was just done after dealing with the kids. I didn't want to come across as also saying "Hey, you have become a bad wife".


You're trying to tell us that in the last two years there hasn't been a single opportunity to sit down with your wife and have this conversation besides when she's had a full, exhausting day with the kids?

Why are you afraid to have this conversation with your wife?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

For myself, many of the opinions above are spot on.

Its like the sex in marriage is the canary in coal mine....when the sex is dead, there is something wrong.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

jaquen said:


> You're trying to tell us that in the last two years there hasn't been a single opportunity to sit down with your wife and have this conversation besides when she's had a full, exhausting day with the kids?
> 
> Why are you afraid to have this conversation with your wife?


No, that is not what I am trying to say. We have actually talked about this stuff before. Last month we stayed away overnight, the topic came up about how we have to get things on track, make more time, etc... However, once we get back home she gets consumed entirely by the house, we are back to square one. Maybe that is what set me off as I had a glimmer of hope after that night only to see things fall back again. I have brought up in the past as well how I felt like I frequently fall to the very bottom of her to do list, things would get better, but then eventually revert back.

It is a talk that I need to have with her again, I do agree. That is in part why I just signed up here as I want to get all my thoughts straight in my head first, see what everyone else is dealing with, etc...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Address it now. If you don't, it will get worse. Once resentment takes hold, it isan extremely difficult cycle to get out of. Let her know that you are unhappy and that you expect to work together to meet each other's needs. Then deliver on the meeting her needs department and expect her to step up too. I am not a fan of pouring on the romance in this situation, personally, as it sets up a covert contract.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> Also, where my wife and I differ, I have an easy time letting things go. If I have a crappy day, it doesn't consume me, I can shut my brain off. My wife has a much harder time with this. The moment I see she has a bad stretch with my daughter I pretty much know all bets are off for the night as there is no coming back. With the 3 kids, the house, etc... she acknowledges that she can't just shut her brain off, and this undoubtedly comes into play in terms of us as a married couple.


I wonder how easily you could let things go you if lived at your job. What if you had to work your job from the moment you got up in the morning until the moment you went to bed 7 a week, just about every day of the year? That includes you cannot go anywhere without all your co-workers and all your customers (AKA children) go along with you?

When a person works at a job away from home, home becomes a place to get away from the job. 

Where does she go to get away from the job?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Perhaps I'm not being clear.


I don't mean talk, as in the vain that you've been. I mean more along the lines of:

'Baby I love you. And I know we've discussed our lack of sex a couple times. But my needs, and yours, ours as a couple, are important. Our relationship feels more like roommates to me and I'm seriously having trouble connecting with you. And that's just not acceptable. I love you too much and I love what we have. I understand the kids are a handful, and we've allowed them to take over, and please forgive me if I've not pulled my weight enough with the kids. But now is the time for us to make some real changes so that we can start to get back to the us we both loved so much. We can not just talk about this and go back to status quo. That's no longer an option for me. How do you feel about making changes now and holding each other accountable for following through?'


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> No, that is not what I am trying to say. We have actually talked about this stuff before. Last month we stayed away overnight, the topic came up about how we have to get things on track, make more time, etc... However, once we get back home she gets consumed entirely by the house, we are back to square one. Maybe that is what set me off as I had a glimmer of hope after that night only to see things fall back again. I have brought up in the past as well how I felt like I frequently fall to the very bottom of her to do list, things would get better, but then eventually revert back.
> 
> It is a talk that I need to have with her again, I do agree. That is in part why I just signed up here as I want to get all my thoughts straight in my head first, see what everyone else is dealing with, etc...


When you have a talk with your wife, it cannot be just about your sex life. Your sex life suffering is a symptom of the problems in your marriage. Fix the problems and the sex life will most likely follow.

The two of you spend almost no quality time together. It know it's hard with children. But you have to find the time. 

My suggestion is that before you talk to her, you read the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". 

Then you ask her to read them and work through what the books say to work through. 

You both need to restructure your marriage and your family. The best thing that you can give your children is a strong marital relationship. You and your wife are the foundation of your family. I'm sure you know what happens to a house when it's foundation is broken or even ripped out from under it.

A good marriage takes a lot more than sex. It also needs non-sexual intimacy. You and your wife need to find a way to carve out more time.. what's recommended is 15 hours a week, for just the two of you. The book "His Needs, Her Needs" explains this.

To be lovers you need both the non-sexual intimacy and the sexual intimacy. Women seem to need more non-sexual intimacy than men do. Your wife seems to be showing the results of not getting enough of the no-sexual intimacy.. and it's hurting your sex life. You both feel it.

There are ways that you can get time together. It will take some brain storming. But it's possible.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

If you are working 70 hours a week with several kids, how do you keep the connection with your wife? That is just crazy IMO. Your wife (and probably you too!) are likely burned out and running on empty. 
My suggestions- early morning sex, once a month weekends away, long lunch hours while kids are napping, sexting (when you can't be there), weekend babysitters, act like you did when you were dating.

If my man worked 70 hours a week, I would be close to death from mundane kid stuff and would be harboring some deep resentment. May want to look into that first. I'm sure something can be worked out if you love each other! Good luck!


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## 1marriedlady (Mar 27, 2015)

My hubby and I go without sex for months at a time. I wish I could say it was the kids but they range from 21-13, so that isn't our case.

I think for us, it's a matter of growing up and possibly growing apart in someways. We went from dating, to living together, to having our son, to being married, to having more kids. 

The people we were at 23 & 24 - are not who we are now. We were so focused on our kids, I don't think we really focused on us, as a couple. We are happy. We are good together, but we don't connect and have sex as often as we should. 

I've tried talking to him about it and we try to have sex more often, but it doesn't seem to be happening.


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## 1marriedlady (Mar 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> A good marriage takes a lot more than sex. It also needs non-sexual intimacy.....
> 
> To be lovers you need both the non-sexual intimacy and the sexual intimacy. Women seem to need more non-sexual intimacy than men do. Your wife seems to be showing the results of not getting enough of the no-sexual intimacy.. and it's hurting your sex life. You both feel it.
> 
> .


This is it. Perfectly and beautifully said. Well done. :smthumbup:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> I have gone through this process very recently - we have had nearly daily intimacy since last Nov or so. We are closer than ever! We don't just have sex - we cuddle, kiss, talk, catch up, etc and I am satisfied and sometimes she is. We still have different levels of sexual need and she is happy to satisfy me. We both need the intimacy - perhaps (probably) me more than her. So it serves a very important part of a busy married life.


Now this is funny. You are telling him not to do what is being suggested by others.... such as the man who wrote the books that I suggested. A man who has made his life work coaching couples in how to rebuild the intimacy and passion in their marriages. 

But then what you say in this part of your post is very much in line with what the book is talking about. You made a list... "we have had nearly daily intimacy since last Nov or so. We are closer than ever! We don't just have sex - we cuddle, kiss, talk, catch up, etc"

You see all that no-sexual intimacy in there... cuddle, kiss, talk, catch up.... without that non-sexual part of your daily intimacy your wife just might not be into the sex part... both are needed.

The difference between what you are suggesting and what I have suggested is that you are suggesting that the OP make his all about what he needs/wants. The book I suggested gives couples a framework to talk about things... that both of them need and want. His wife needs to have a voice and be part of framing the solution as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> I also don't assume OP's wife's needs aren't being met. Could be her needs are met just fine - which was my wife's case which is why she couldn't see that mine weren't.


Before you got your wife to understand your need for more sex, 
how many hours a week did the two of you spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?

After the sex improved, how many hours a week do the two of you spend doing this?


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Unless your 3rd child is a special needs child who requires extra attention, the two of you are creating a monster.

The physical intimacy that forms the foundation of your marriage is being eroded away and unless you and your wife don't do something to remedy the situation, your marriage will end years hence.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> EXACTLY! I am saying the opposite in some ways and the same in others!
> 
> Because it IS about his needs.
> 
> Men typically don't express - and don't even realize - these needs. Instead they conflate them with HER needs.


No, marriage is not about only the man’s needs. Not by a long shot. 

Just as he works 70 hours a week, she is working at least that or more. He is meeting some of her needs by giving financial support and helping some with the kids when he’s around. But he’s mostly not around. She is meeting some of his needs by taking care of the house, the children and I’ll bet a lot of other things. This way he can concentrate on working that 70 hours a week. 

They both have unmet needs… Ellis mentions that in his posts. 

People make the mistake of thinking that women are all knowing about their own needs. The fact is that most women have no clue what their own needs are either. This is why we hear so many men say that they ask their wife what her needs are and she cannot tell them. Or she tells him different things at different times. She just knows what she feels at the moment. The fact is that a lot of people, maybe most, have very little emotional intelligence when it comes to their own needs and their spouses needs in marriage. This is something that our society neglects to teach.

The reason that I like the books “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters” is that they give both men and women a way to first identify their own needs; to communicate them to each other; and then it tells how to go about meeting each other’s needs. 


MarriedGuy221 said:


> As you saw we end up on the same place, but only if his needs are met.
> 
> Her needs can also be worked on separately - after all they are separate. And he is the one here looking for answers.


The difference is that you are saying that he should not even attempt to understand her needs or talk to her about her needs, until he gets more sex. Why? Because his needs are more important? Only after he gets more sex should he even consider thinking about her needs?

Yes he is the one here looking for answers. That does not mean that his needs are more important than his wife’s. It does not mean that his view of the marriage is the only valid view. There are three sides to every story: His, hers the rest of the story. What it means is that he is the one here who is hoping to find a way to fix things. So he’s the one we will be giving input to. But they have to work together to fix their marriage. For all we know, she somewhere looking for answers as well. 

I’m not about to sit here and type on the internet that I know exactly what Ellis and his wife should be doing. Instead, the best thing that I can do is to point him to resources that will help him and his wife communicate and work together to fix their marriage. These are highly respected books written by a man who has made helping men repair their marriage his life’s work. He has a clue. 



MarriedGuy221 said:


> I spent years worrying about her needs or our needs etc but guess what? Since we were sexually mismatched (seems most couples are) OUR needs were never truly going to address this. In such a busy life, this just never bubbled up to a high enough priority.
> 
> Look - I can only say what finally worked. When my wife FINALLY got that this was a need (and it took 2 or 3 YEARS to figure out how to express it this way) the change was IMMEDIATE. Why? Because she would never leave such a critical need unfulfilled on purpose (nor would I for an unmet need of hers).


I’m glad that you were able to figure out something that worked for you. It’s too bad that it took so long to get there.

Have you ever read “His Needs, Her Needs”? It has an entire chapter dedicated to explaining to women who are like your wife the importance of sex to a man in a relationship. It’s addressed as part of the needs assessment and helps by giving the man the words to use to talk to his wife about it if it’s a problem in the marriage.



MarriedGuy221 said:


> I also don't assume OP's wife's needs aren't being met. Could be her needs are met just fine - which was my wife's case which is why she couldn't see that mine weren't.


It would be interesting to talk to your wife to see if she agrees with that statement. 

I am not going to make any assumptions. I’m going by what Ellis has written here. Both Ellis and his wife have unmet needs. He said as much. I am inclined to believe what he wrote.




MarriedGuy221 said:


> I have to credit George Castanza. In Seinfeld, when he doesn't want to get married and breaks down crying, BOOM -she did whatever he wanted.


You know that’s a TV show and not real life. Right? It worked because it was in the script. It’s a stereo type reaction. It works sometimes. Sometimes it does not. 

Yea, destabilizing a relationship can work when all else has failed. Ellis is hardly at the “all else has failed stage”. He’s at the start of trying to figure this out. The only time to do something like threaten divorce is when it’s your last straw. A person should never make a threat that they are not willing to follow through.

I tried that in marriage. Guess what happened? Did it lead to any changes? Nope it lead to a lot of promises… and then to divorce because nothing changed.



MarriedGuy221 said:


> Men rarely relate their needs in a way women understand, particularly if you're a normal "guy" and you don't show (or feel) vulnerable much.
> So I am saying - dare to be vulnerable and it's ok to admit you are a bit needy in some respects.


And women can rarely relate their needs in a way that men understand either.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dogbert said:


> Unless your 3rd child is a special needs child who requires extra attention, the two of you are creating a monster.
> 
> The physical intimacy that forms the foundation of your marriage is being eroded away and unless you and your wife don't do something to remedy the situation, your marriage will end years hence.


I've been wondering about this too. Glad you brought it up. What is the 3rd child doing that it causing such disruption in the family? It might be time to start looking into what the issue is.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Appreciate all the feedback. Unfortunately day starts today at 8am with all the kids activities and won't be back home until late afternoon, so I will try to respond then.

One item to address since it probably did come off wrong, there is nothing wrong with my daughter. The best way to explain it, when we had our first son (about 8 yrs ago) my wife was working full time. My mom had also just moved in with us. Additionally,my son was the first grandkid so everyone wanted to take care of him. He would spend a lot of nights with my mom, he would go to a sitter when my wife worked, etc... He may be the biggest mommas boy now but from the start wasn't attached to my wife.

My 2nd son was born about 6 years ago. At that point my wife was working only part time, so my son spent a lot more time with her and not independently. To help my wife out my mom or other family members would take my older son, so pretty much son #2 was with her a lot. It did take a little bit longer for him to detach himself from my wife (it did get rough) but he did.

Now we get to our daughter. My wife was pretty much a stay at home mom when we had her 2 yrs ago. She was a difficult baby in that she always wanted to feed, and didn't even start sleeping through the night until after she was 1 yr old. My wife breastfed and we didn't use formula, so the baby was practically attached to her 24/7. As much as my wife needed a break from her, she was unwilling to let go (she didn't even spend her first night away from us until well after she was 1yr old). At this point now for example if my daughter is in the same room as my wife she wants her attention 24/7. My daughter could be busy playing, sees my wife leave the room, and will go follow her/throw a fit. This will happen the entire day they are together Doesn't help as well that my daughter is over the 100th percentile for both height and weight, so it is physically demanding for my wife to have to carry her around. So did we create a monster, honestly, I believe so. I have to believe when we look at the demeanor of all three of our kids, how my wife interacted with our daughter vs. the two boys has played a big role.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

When we had our children, I honestly wasn't prepared for the constant attention it was going to require to be a mom. You are a woman of the world, working, spending time with friends and having time for personal fulfillment then start adding babies and suddenly your a mom responsible for shaping little humans with wants, wants and wants. Couple that with a spouse who is constantly at work. I hated staying at home with my children. It sapped my energy and left me feeling isolated and lonely. Have you wife ever talked about being depressed? Although I love my children, motherhood isn't all that's cracked up to be. You, yourself and I are put on the back burner until the kids start being a little independent and then the mother guilt is insufferable. You want to be everything to your children and you want to be available to them also. We hope our husbands would understand after all those are his kids not some other man's. When the kids were so needy, my H and I had a lot of quickies primarily it took me awhile to switch to sexy kitty from mom in my brain and once it was getting good, I would hear a child crying. Sometimes it was imaginary and I had to tell him to stop because I thought I heard the kids. It's extremely important while the kids are so little that you help her find a balance between her intimacy with you and child rearing. This has nothing to do with sex, but give her a mommy free day for her to find herself, she might come back to you energized. That was one thing H did for me when the kiddies were so young and tell her she's not allowed to feel any guilt that she's taking time for herself. Good luck.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Appreciate all the feedback. Unfortunately day starts today at 8am with all the kids activities and won't be back home until late afternoon, so I will try to respond then.
> 
> One item to address since it probably did come off wrong, there is nothing wrong with my daughter. The best way to explain it, when we had our first son (about 8 yrs ago) my wife was working full time. My mom had also just moved in with us. Additionally,my son was the first grandkid so everyone wanted to take care of him. He would spend a lot of nights with my mom, he would go to a sitter when my wife worked, etc... He may be the biggest mommas boy now but from the start wasn't attached to my wife.
> 
> ...



Here is my advice, for what it is worth. It sounds as if your daughter demands, and then _receives_ constant attention from your wife. It is time for learning positive discipline techniques. Don't even bring up making her more available for sex. With success, that is a happy side effect of what has to happen anyway. Be the leader. Learn about positive discipline and apply it. (I have resources if you are interested.) Share with your wife why doing so is good for the family, good for her _and good for your daughter and sons_. By almost 2, bedtime needn't be a nightmare, barring any special needs, which you say is not an issue.

When all three kids are members of team family, and DD gets down with that program, things will run smoother all the way around. Including increased free time for you and your wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Btw i think there is a tendency to think sex is a special need that should be linked to other needs, is less or more important than other needs, is ok to be prioritized below others needs, etc.


Sex is one of many needs that each person has. It’s only as important as where a person ranks it. Let’s say that one spouse has sex as their most important need and the other has non-sexual intimacy as their most important need… then the two needs are equally important FOR THAT COUPLE.

If the sex is prioritized over the other spouse’s need for non-sexual intimacy, the spouse who is not getting their most important need met (non-sexual intimacy) will slowly fall out of love with the other.



MarriedGuy221 said:


> Only you know your most important needs. If it's sex - fix it. If it's finances - fix it. If it’s time - you may be only able to fix your part, but understand what the lack of time means in terms of other unmet needs and communicate them and fix then.
> 
> Don't assume one need trumps another or your partner's needs trump yours or your joint needs trumps your individual needs.


That’s what I’ve been saying. That’s what the book helps a couple do.


MarriedGuy221 said:


> If this is OP's primary unmet need then it's ok to fix it above all other needs.


Sure it’s ok to fix his needs before his wife’s neglected needs are fixed…. if they both agree.

You seem to think that only one thing can be fixed at a time. That’s not true, not by a long shot. A couple can work through the book in a few days and start doing better at meeting all of each other’s needs immediately. Of course there will be tweaks over time. People’s needs change as life’s circumstances change. But continued communication is the key.


MarriedGuy221 said:


> BTW If spouse responds with their #1 unmet need, GREAT! Respond as a couple!
> 
> Also as I mentioned - continue to work on other things, read the books recommended if they resonate with you, etc. to make your marriage as good as possible, and at least as good as you need.


Yes respond as a couple. Talk/communicate as a couple. Not one person setting up a situation where their needs are met that ignores even asking about and talking about their spouses needs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> Now we get to our daughter. My wife was pretty much a stay at home mom when we had her 2 yrs ago. She was a difficult baby in that she always wanted to feed, and didn't even start sleeping through the night until after she was 1 yr old. My wife breastfed and we didn't use formula, so the baby was practically attached to her 24/7. As much as my wife needed a break from her, she was unwilling to let go (she didn't even spend her first night away from us until well after she was 1yr old). At this point now for example if my daughter is in the same room as my wife she wants her attention 24/7. My daughter could be busy playing, sees my wife leave the room, and will go follow her/throw a fit. This will happen the entire day they are together Doesn't help as well that my daughter is over the 100th percentile for both height and weight, so it is physically demanding for my wife to have to carry her around. So did we create a monster, honestly, I believe so. I have to believe when we look at the demeanor of all three of our kids, how my wife interacted with our daughter vs. the two boys has played a big role.



My son was like this. It can be exhausting.

Does your wife get any time away from the children and the house? If so what does she do? How often?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Sorry guys, just settling in now for a few before I get the boys to bed. I still want to respond to everyone as I do appreciate all the input, will just respond to the last two posts so I can run back upstairs. Should be easier later tonight or tomorrow morning to respond to everyone else (usually up by 5am anyhow so that is my quiet time before the gang starts stirring!)



EleGirl said:


> My son was like this. It can be exhausting.
> 
> Does your wife get any time away from the children and the house? If so what does she do? How often?


Not really as of now. She used to be really into exercising (she ran a half marathon, yoga, we did spartan races together, all this leading up to our 3rd kid). I have tried to get her back to doing those things, making arrangements for someone to watch our daughter, etc... but right now she is convinced (and I can't quite shake this out of her) that any free minute she has has to be spent doing household related items. That is in part why I took off work twice in the last few weeks, to show her that we could actually do things not related to the house (we went out to lunch both times), the house would still be there and the kids would still be in one piece.



intheory said:


> *Don't have any more kids.*
> 
> Wow, your wife worked fulltime with kid #1, parttime with kid #2. Now she has another, very demanding kid #3.
> 
> ...


Well, unless the surgeon f'd up no more kids for me  The first time having unprotected sex after the surgery, that was a scary time for the wife and I as we were waiting for her period (which of course came late just to f with us a little lol)

Thanks for the wishes. Honestly, there are couples that are in a lot worse position. Of course the goal, and why I started posting here as I try to gather my thoughts, is to keep us from becoming that couple.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

IDK why but multi quoting more than a few posts is fighting me this morning, and I haven't had enough of my morning oreos yet to deal with lol, so will just try as best to respond below (apologies if I missed anything):

@EleGirl - "I wonder how easily you could let things go you if lived at your job." - Trust me, I do understand that for my wife she is pretty much at her job 24/7 and that is why I try to help out as much as I can. That being said, do I believe I could more easily let things go if our roles were reversed, yes. That is nothing against my wife, it is moreso the difference in our personalities, and she is definitely more prone to get consumed by what is around her. As I mentioned in my last post as well, she has now convinced herself that her free time needs to be spent doing house/kid related items which undoubtedly makes it worse for her to try and separate herself.

@jaquen - I do follow what you are saying. We have had similar conversations, and the last part you mention "holding each other accountable" is where both of us has failed.

@EleGirl "When you have a talk with your wife, it cannot be just about your sex life. Your sex life suffering is a symptom of the problems in your marriage. Fix the problems and the sex life will most likely follow." Actually, when we have talked it has not been specifically just about our sex life. The main issue has always been not spending time together. Have we done a good job managing that, well, if we had I probably wouldn't be posting here  Sex does come into the conversation b/c naturally it is a product of spending time together. TBH as well, I am not convinced that fixing the amount of time we spend together will necessarily carry over to an improvement in our sex life. If it means going away for weekends more then yes, it would. However, if it means spending more time together (lunch, dinner, movies, etc...) but still coming back home at the end of the day, I don't quite feel it will carry over. The recommended 15 hrs a week is not realistic with our schedules right now, so we just need to be more creative and make more of an effort to carve out time where possible.

@scatty Its a long week! I leave the house before 5am to go to the gym. From there I head straight to work, and get home around 7pm. The once a month weekend away is what ideally I would like to do, but I just need to find a way to get my mom to commit to this as well since she is the only one we have to leave all 3 kids with overnight or over the weekend. 

@MarriedGuy221 - Really as I have thought about things more to determine exactly why I wasn't happy with how things have been, it does come down to sex (which I think I knew all along but almost felt selfish even admitting this to myself if that makes sense). I am not one who needs it every day (don't get me wrong, if my wife suggested every day I would have lawyer draft up a legal document for her to sign immediately!), but really once or twice a month just doesn't cut it. Aside from sex yes I do want to spend more time with my wife and for us to do a better job of spending time together. However, if spending more time together means more times out alone for dinner, movies, etc... and not an improvement in our sex life then really IMO nothing has been accomplished. As I mentioned, I don't want to feel like I have a roommate, I can go out to dinner with friends, etc... Sex is something that I can only enjoy with my wife and no one else. With all this I am just trying to be honest about everything where I will admit in the past I would just push aside, in particular b/c I do understand she is drowning in the mommy side of things.

@Maritalloneliness - I think you describe it perfectly what my wife is going through. Depression does run on her side of the family. When we have talked it has been more sense of being overwhelmed. I do agree that she needs to find some time for herself away from being a Mommy, and she knows herself that she needs, but she has become very resistant to the idea. The best I can do is to continue to give her options (for example my daughter now goes to daycare 3x a week and I just told my wife to increase how long she is there even if it costs us more), and really us going away for a night or a weekend is the best way to force this (but also the most difficult right now b/w finding someone to take care of our kids and starting now for a while the boys have 4 sports games every Saturday). I just have to keep pushing the issue. Where i have to be somewhat careful is just not to overdo it to the point where I take on too much b/c as is between long work days and trying to do as much as I can when I am home, I am running on fumes as well. It is all about finding a balance, but right now it is more like my wife and I are on a seesaw, she is one side up in the air and I am on the other side smack against the ground (ok, maybe not the best analogy since given I weigh nearly 100lbs more then her that is what would happen on a seesaw with us!) 

@NobodySpecial - agreed. As I have felt, we are paying the price now for how things were b/w my wife and daughter since she was born. I know my wife was looking into some resources concerning positive discipline, I will have to discuss with her regarding.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> @NobodySpecial - agreed. As I have felt, we are paying the price now for how things were b/w my wife and daughter since she was born. I know my wife was looking into some resources concerning positive discipline, I will have to discuss with her regarding.


I have some books that saved my life. PM if you are interested in titles and authors.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You are both making the same mistake. You are both making one high priority aspect of your life become the ONLY aspect of your life that matters. She needs a different parenting style in which not every request from a kid is fulfilled. You need a career style in which every request from your employer is satisfied. You both need to learn to say "no" to people you care about and are trying to please. Only then will you both have the time and energy to devote to each other.

You need to help your wife deal with her side. And she needs to support you in dialing down the effort at work.

I think you will both find you actually get better overall results when you dial down the effort you are willing to put into the tasks. You'll get better at prioritizing and becoming more efficient.

And if you have more time alone together, and are both less exhausted when that occurs, you'll find yourself in a much better environment to raise the sex issue.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> You are both making the same mistake. You are both making one high priority aspect of your life become the ONLY aspect of your life that matters. She needs a different parenting style in which not every request from a kid is fulfilled. You need a career style in which every request from your employer is satisfied. You both need to learn to say "no" to people you care about and are trying to please. Only then will you both have the time and energy to devote to each other.
> 
> You need to help your wife deal with her side. And she needs to support you in dialing down the effort at work.
> 
> ...


I am not sure I follow regarding my career style? My work is fine, I don't bring it home with me, not something I need support from, and I do enjoy what I do. I am a partner at my firm, so any talks with my employer would involve talking to myself (might freak some people out).


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Sorry, quick read of the thread indicated you are working 70+ hours per week. I am in a field where most firms are partnerships and most successful people work those kinds of hours. So I understand you may feel you have no choice but to work those kinds of hours.

Still, I don't think you can work those hours and then blame your spouse for the sexual mismatch. There may be no solution until you reach a point in your career where you can afford to hire a few more employees and delegate more of the workload. But if you are working 70+ hours per week, then the absence of "just the 2 of us" time is as much your fault as hers.

I understand the lack of sex is a major problem. I have done without for decades and I am a complete psychological wreck. And I understand that some careers require massive investments of time. Mine does too. I just want you to understand that my psychological problems are my fault for putting up with a sexless marriage and staying in a time intensive industry. And your sex problems likely arise at least in part form you being a partner in a firm and feeling the pressure to pull your weight. Perhaps recognizing that you are part of the problem might help in adjusting the tone you use when complaining to your wife about the lack of sex. Most people find they have better results when they address this as a team. You have to be a team both as to parenting your kids and as to your mutual sex life. Wishing you all the best.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> Sorry, quick read of the thread indicated you are working 70+ hours per week. I am in a field where most firms are partnerships and most successful people work those kinds of hours. So I understand you may feel you have no choice but to work those kinds of hours.
> 
> Still, I don't think you can work those hours and then blame your spouse for the sexual mismatch. There may be no solution until you reach a point in your career where you can afford to hire a few more employees and delegate more of the workload. But if you are working 70+ hours per week, then the absence of "just the 2 of us" time is as much your fault as hers.
> 
> I understand the lack of sex is a major problem. I have done without for decades and I am a complete psychological wreck. And I understand that some careers require massive investments of time. Mine does too. I just want you to understand that my psychological problems are my fault for putting up with a sexless marriage and staying in a time intensive industry. And your sex problems likely arise at least in part form you being a partner in a firm and feeling the pressure to pull your weight. Perhaps recognizing that you are part of the problem might help in adjusting the tone you use when complaining to your wife about the lack of sex. Most people find they have better results when they address this as a team. You have to be a team both as to parenting your kids and as to your mutual sex life. Wishing you all the best.


I appreciate the feedback, but you are making some assumptions about my job that aren't correct. The 70 hours is the amount of time I am typically away from home each week (leave the house before 5am for the gym, head straight into work by 7am, leave work at 6pm and get home by 7pm). Additionally, 1 week a month I actually go into work around 4:30am, leave around 3pm, which gets me home around 4pm (so for these days I can help out even more with the house stuff,kids after school activities, etc...). Don't get me wrong, it would be great if I was home by 4pm every day, but that is not feasible nor realistic. Actually being a partner I have more flexibility with my hours where there are days I have gone into work late so I could help get the kids on the bus, or likewise leave early. I never work weekends, I rarely travel anymore, etc... Also, even though I am out the door so early in the morning I usually stay up late just to have a few minutes with my wife after the kids go to bed.

Also, I don't follow, what sex problems do I have? To my knowledge I don't have any sex problems aside from just wanting to have sex more than once a month (or are you saying the problem being the willingness to put up with a sexless marriage?). Any pressures I have from work stay at work when I leave, they don't have an impact on my mood or how I interact with my wife/kids when I get home. Dealing with work issues never bothered me tbh. This is in part what EleGirl and I were talking about, where it is much easier for me to leave work at work vs. my wife since her work is home.

And I definitely agree, the point will definitely not be to have a tone that comes across as complaining to my wife. That is not what I am trying to get out of all this. My wife and I are both in this together, and we have both let this problem go on way longer then we have (not just the sex issues, but also the higher level issues which I believe revolve around dealing with our daughter and spending time together).


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Just remember, every day you are away from home for 14 hours is a day your wife is solely responsible for the kids for 14 hours. That is almost 2 full workdays. And you are wondering why she is too tired for sex when you get home?

Yes, your sex problem is wanting more than once a month while your wife is working 14 hour days every weekday. Trying to fix the sex without fixing the 14 hours is likely to be unsuccessful.

Not suggesting there is an easy fix. Just suggesting that the life / schedule you have created for yourself is relevant to your wife's life / schedule, and that her life / schedule is probably related to her level of desire for sex.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> Just remember, every day you are away from home for 14 hours is a day your wife is solely responsible for the kids for 14 hours. That is almost 2 full workdays. And you are wondering why she is too tired for sex when you get home?
> 
> Yes, your sex problem is wanting more than once a month while your wife is working 14 hour days every weekday. Trying to fix the sex without fixing the 14 hours is likely to be unsuccessful.
> 
> Not suggesting there is an easy fix. Just suggesting that the life / schedule you have created for yourself is relevant to your wife's life / schedule, and that her life / schedule is probably related to her level of desire for sex.


Well based on your view there is no fix, my hours are what they are. My hours used to be worse and sex was not as much of an issue, even with 2 kids, wife working part/full time, etc.... Now I have actually been more flexible with my hours. If anything the issue when we first had kids that my wife had was not my work hours but how I was using my hours at home after work (I used to go to the gym after work, I would spend a lot of time writing a blog, etc...). Now I go to the gym before work so it has zero impact on my wife/family, and when I get home my focus is on the kids.

Also, keep in mind, for my wife the 2 older boys are in school from 8am - 3pm every day and now we have our daughter going to daycare from 9am - 2pm MWF, so I don't think you can equate that as my wife having sole responsibility of the kids for 14 hours. Tues/Thurs she does have my daughter all day.

As I have said, everything really took a turn for the worse in the last 2 years when we had our 3rd kid. There are undoubtedly things maybe we didn't do well enough with the 3rd kid in allowing it to control our lives, and we are paying the price for it now. The more I have had a chance to talk all this stuff over with folks here, that is the main issue I believe that needs to be fixed as everything else has fed off of it.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> When you have a talk with your wife, it cannot be just about your sex life. Your sex life suffering is a symptom of the problems in your marriage. Fix the problems and the sex life will most likely follow.
> 
> The two of you spend almost no quality time together. It know it's hard with children. But you have to find the time.
> 
> ...



I am sorry, but I have to note here a caution as to the books recommended. They are by a Dr. Willard Harley of the Marriage Builders Program", which in many ways - IMPO - approach a cult-like mentality. A friend of mine was associated with their program and even their forum "volunteers" repeatedly hyped more books, videos, program involvement, etcetera. 

Also, the program (and most books / media) focuses around a position that is that of almost aLL marital problems (finances, sex, in-laws, whatever) WILL lead to an affair(s) so the focus is on??? Affairs! (What's the old saying about if all you have is a hammer, that EVERY problem that you approach is a "nail"? Well, that's what I note here... fortunately I live in an area with an extensive library network and have been able to read most of his work.via library checkouts). For example, his 2013 publication of a different book is??? "Surviving an Affair" (which makes a lot of the same points as "His Needs, Her Needs", BTW.

In my friend's case, adultery or even the possibility of infidelity (other than astronomical odds) was NOT the problem - yet the Program (and up to 90% of some of the books focused on that). And in his case, he kept getting steered around to this NEED to come to grasp that an affair (by her) was imminent!

Also, much of the material is dated, with "His Needs, Her Needs" having been initially published in 1988 with numerous printing since then, but pretty much no updating (I read the 1986 edition, the 2001 edition and the 2011 edition and basically the same exact info. 

Another thing that is NOT initially hyped is that this is a strongly intensely Christian program. If you (and your SO) are not intensely Christian then you could have problems. If you are of another religion (or agnostic or Deist or atheist) then you are likely to have problems. My friend, for example, who started just being on the forum, quickly was surrounded by " fanatics" (his words, not mine) as he is Orthodox Jew and already highly involved in the Mort Fertel Program and books by Schmuley Boteach (I think I got that right). He was miserable with this program / books and felt that they didn't help at all (as their biased agenda was not his problem). There were some "near suggestions" that maybe they should convert!

Now I'm not saying that this program (and these books) haven't provided great help to certain people. I noted that "His Needs, Her Needs" hyped over a million sales... but that is in numerous printings since 1986 and in 12 countries / languages. Just saying... I also, after reading the 2001 edition a couple years ago, checked the 1-star and 2-star ratings through Amazon and found the following (which also shows a number of examples as to the problems that I had with its highly Christian worldview - and some of the specific recommendations:

1-star:

http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her...?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

2-star:

http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her...ll_formats&filterByStar=two_star&pageNumber=1

Sadly (IMO) there are like 270 5-star reviews that think these are some great recommendations.

Anyway...

If your (and your SO) primary problem is in the realm of sex, maybe a book more specifically oriented might be in order?

"Wanting Sex Again" by Laurie Watson is a VG option. And there are several options in that vein that are very good. Also, the "Sex Starved Marriage:" by Michelle Davis, "Passionate Marriage:" by David Schnarch, etcetera, etcetera!

A bit of info that I felt to always recall:

Common Marriage Problems: Finding Good, Free Relationship Advice | Mad About Marriage

Remember, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts"!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Thought I would post a quick update here for anyone interested. My wife and I started talking about all this last week. Basically I got home from work one night, she had this panicked look on her face, and her words were "Is it bad 95% of the time I don't want to be around our daughter". Figured this was as good a time as any to start a dialogue. As I mentioned in the later posts here, I felt the main issue that needed to be addressed is that fact that we have let our daughter basically control our lives over the past few years. That is where the focus was of our conversation. I did bring up the issues with us not spending any time together, the lack of a sex life where somehow once a month seems to be acceptable now, etc... but kept it so it didn't sound like I was attacking or blaming her. She felt the same way about everything I mentioned, agreed that the direction our marriage has been headed in was not healthy, and that we needed to fix it ASAP. Just to confirm as well based on the last few exchanges here, there was no issues with my hours or feeling like that was any part a cause of the issues we were having (I don't work weekends, very minimal travel, have actually had more flexible hours of late, and really most of the hours I am gone everyone is either asleep or I wouldn't be home anyhow assuming I wanted to still have a job). 

One of the members here was nice enough to provide me with a list of books that would be helpful in dealing with the kids, so my wife is working through those books now (similar to when we were dating in college and in honors english together, I will just have my wife read and she can give me some cliffnotes ). 

Aside from hopefully making some parental changes with the way we deal with our daughter, a few other immediate changes:

- My daughter was going to daycare 3x a week for 4 hours. We have now bumped that up to 4x a week for 7 hours. That should give my wife an extra 16 hours a week to take care of herself. As my wife said, if she can't do the things at home she needs to get done and still make time for herself than she is doing something wrong.

- My wife started going back to the gym officially today.

Now don't get me wrong, we are by no means out of the woods yet. There is still a lot of work to do, we still have to be better at making alone time a priority (I am taking off again this Friday so we can have some time alone while the kids are at school / daycare). However, if the big issue for my wife is my daughter and feeling suffocated by her (at times she describes it as feeling like she wants to crawl out of her skin b/c my daughter has been all over her the entire day), then the fact is there should be noticeable improvements which should carry over to our sex life. Although my wife and I do have somewhat of a mismatched drive we had always been able to meet in the middle, so realistically that is all I am expecting. I was actually trying to plan a night away a few weeks ago but my wife had me cancel b/c she knew she would have her period, so it is on her mind as well.

For my part, I need to be more proactive with holding my wife accountable. If she is getting the things she needs to take care of herself and there is negligible improvement with us then I will need to be selfish and put my needs to the forefront. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Good Job, Dad and Husband. Way to go!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh and do let your wife know that I know EXACTLY how she feels wrt not liking being around her child. I had a hard time with my eldest at first. And I hated being around him. Knowing another Mom was in the same boat might help her feel better.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

These all sound like very good changes.



EllisRedding said:


> For my part, I need to be more proactive with holding my wife accountable. If she is getting the things she needs to take care of herself and there is negligible improvement with us then I will need to be selfish and put my needs to the forefront. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.


:iagree:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

What are you doing to get her fires going?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Good Job, Dad and Husband. Way to go!





NobodySpecial said:


> Oh and do let your wife know that I know EXACTLY how she feels wrt not liking being around her child. I had a hard time with my eldest at first. And I hated being around him. Knowing another Mom was in the same boat might help her feel better.


Just glad I posted here first to get some clarity on all the stuff going through my head before I went off with guns a blazin! Can't tell you how many times the conversation went differently in my head lol.

I forget what book she is reading now, but she definitely sees some stuff that we have been doing currently that we really should be doing differently. My two older boys are both well behaved, but some great tips as well. If we can reel in our daughter and make some positive changes for our boys, that would be great :smthumbup:

I did actually forward to her our full PM conversation so she could see I wasn't just making up a conversation with an imaginary person 



marduk said:


> What are you doing to get her fires going?


Well, I think it is that time of month right now, so I would prefer to keep the fire at a low simmer  Plan is still to set up a night or weekend away soon on the beach out by us. We went there in December which was the first time we had been alone in nearly 2 years, and we were able to pick up right away with the hot and heavy stuff.

Otherwise, I am just going to continue to be supportive. As well, and was just mentioning this in another thread, my wife likes it when I am huggy/kissy with her just throughout the day (hugs, big kiss out of nowhere, etc...). Where we butt heads on this, that kind of stuff my wife says gets her going and feeling connected. I am on the other side though, where having sex makes me feel connected to my wife and thus follows through to being more huggy/kissy with her. As of now since sex is so infrequent I don't feel connected to her nor feel a desire to be huggy/kissy (I can tell you as well with how things have been being huggy/kissy would have made no difference except leaving me more frustrated than I already have been). However, for the immediate I am going to bite the bullet on this one I try to pick things up again. Hopefully between that and her time to herself that should be more than enough to get things going. 

Plus, since she just started going to the gym I can guarantee she will be dealing with soreness, so massages have always been a good way to get things to the next level.



EleGirl said:


> These all sound like very good changes.
> 
> :iagree:


Thx, hopefully we are on to something. Don't know if I have the energy to start another thread if not


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

> Well, I think it is that time of month right now, so I would prefer to keep the fire at a low simmer


You'd think so, but you'd be wrong.

Her T levels spike towards the end of her period and the week thereafter. I call this week "happyfunplaytime."


> Plan is still to set up a night or weekend away soon on the beach out by us. We went there in December which was the first time we had been alone in nearly 2 years, and we were able to pick up right away with the hot and heavy stuff.


Cool... but why wait until then?


> Otherwise, I am just going to continue to be supportive. As well, and was just mentioning this in another thread, my wife likes it when I am huggy/kissy with her just throughout the day (hugs, big kiss out of nowhere, etc...). Where we butt heads on this, that kind of stuff my wife says gets her going and feeling connected. I am on the other side though, where having sex makes me feel connected to my wife and thus follows through to being more huggy/kissy with her. As of now since sex is so infrequent I don't feel connected to her nor feel a desire to be huggy/kissy (I can tell you as well with how things have been being huggy/kissy would have made no difference except leaving me more frustrated than I already have been). However, for the immediate I am going to bite the bullet on this one I try to pick things up again. Hopefully between that and her time to herself that should be more than enough to get things going.


This just doesn't sound 'rip my panties off' sexy, man.


> Plus, since she just started going to the gym I can guarantee she will be dealing with soreness, so massages have always been a good way to get things to the next level.


100% disagree.

Want to teach her that she can't accept nice, kind touches from you except as you trying to get laid, then this approach as good.

Massages are massages. Unless they are explicitly erotic massages.

Don't beat around the bush. Be direct. Kiss her passionately, crushing her into you. Start to take her clothes off.

If she says "no," stop. If she doesn't, don't.

And if you do get a "no" just take it like a man, and go do something fun.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

From my perspecctive as a mother of 6. As you have more kids something has to give. You can not do everything that non parents or parents of 1 kid do. This is a decision you have made. For many moms #3 is a breaking point. At this point you need to sit down and reprioritize, possibly even changing some of your parenting approach. With us we decided a house that was perfect all the time would be for when they were grown, if dishes sit in the sink overnight oh well, if we missed vaccuming or sweeping it was not really a big deal, our marriage and sanity was more important than the dirty looks I would get from my MIL . We have had kids that want to take center stage and we had to make boundaries for our marriage, to protecct and nurture it. As you guys are giving to your children you need to rremember that they need you as a complete unit, your torn apart marriage will be morre damaging than anything. Most days we have sex cause we need that moment to reconnect, we don't always chase the orgasm but we do connect. Taking the pressure off took it off our long to do list and put it back on the fun list, and most times once the fun starts....................

Signed happy wife, with 6 very happy children, ranging from 5-16, (yes I have happy teenagers).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> From my perspecctive as a mother of 6. As you have more kids something has to give. You can not do everything that non parents or parents of 1 kid do. This is a decision you have made. For many moms #3 is a breaking point.


I disagree 500% unless the parents are doing Way Too Much for the kids. According to my Mom, #3 is when it get easy! 

Kids do NOT need Mom to hover 24/7. In my opinion, actually, that is very bad for them. By a little before 2, they can already be taught helpful behaviors. In the case of this poster's child, this daughter is very demanding, and Mom is giving into the demands rather than setting effective limits.




> At this point you need to sit down and reprioritize, possibly even changing some of your parenting approach. With us we decided a house that was perfect all the time would be for when they were grown, if dishes sit in the sink overnight oh well, if we missed vaccuming or sweeping it was not really a big deal, our marriage and sanity was more important than the dirty looks I would get from my MIL . We have had kids that want to take center stage and we had to make boundaries for our marriage, to protecct and nurture it.


Wait. Why aren't the kids doing these things?


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

And as far as the huggy/kissy vs intercourse thing, one of you have to think longterm to the end result and not just how you feel right now. One of you have to give so you can get what you want even though you are not getting it yet. This is basic stuff I teach my kids, if you want better you might need to give better not wait for the other person to make the first move.

The hugging, kissing is just a loving thing, not something on her to do list.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> Cool... but why wait until then?


As far as getting away, we have very limited access to anyone who can watch our kids, especially overnight or over a weekend, so it really have to be planned out in advance. Would love if we could do this more spontaneously but unfortunately that is not an option.



marduk said:


> This just doesn't sound 'rip my panties off' sexy, man.


Depends, you asked and I mentioned specifically what I know my wife likes in terms of getting her going (and what she has stated as well). As much as it would be nice to just get home from work and take her right there (which I know she wants as well) it would lead to awkward looks and a lot of questions from my kids as they watch  Regardless though, it is also tied in to her getting herself together, so if she can't use the extra time to take care of herself then no amount "rip my panties off" is going to get anywhere. 



marduk said:


> 100% disagree.
> 
> Want to teach her that she can't accept nice, kind touches from you except as you trying to get laid, then this approach as good.
> 
> ...


Actually, whenever we do massages they are explicitly erotic, clothes are not an option. Don't know why, but we have never done "normal" massages to each other lol.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I just joined a few days ago and it has been interesting reading the different opinions of the members here. My question is, does a healthy sex life equate to a happy marriage (or maybe vice versa, a happy marriage leads to a healthy sex life)? Now obviously there is probably not one set definition of a healthy sex life in terms of frequently, likes/dislikes, etc... but I would guess a healthy sex life would mean where both people in the marriage are on the same page in terms of their sexual needs.
> 
> Part of why I ask this, I have been married for around 15 yrs. I have a beautiful wife, 3 beautiful/healthy young children, fortunate with my career where finances are currently not an issue. I have every reason in the world to be happy with my marriage, yet I find that I am not. My wife and I get along great, we rarely fight, we actually like each other. As I sort all this out in my head I keep going back to one thing though, sex. Sex was always an important part of our relationship, but as we had each kid the sex has gotten less frequent and the amount of time that goes by in between having sex has gotten greater. After our 3rd child (she is 20mos old now) we actually went over a year before we had sex again, and since then I would consider having sex 1-2x a month a good month (been close to a month now so guess I might be getting lucky any day now lol). There are no issues with the sex itself (wife and I agree that the sex is actually better now, more intense, no issues with Os, etc...). The biggest issue are the kids, and in particular my 3rd one who has been extremely difficult on my wife since day 1. By the time we finally get settled in it is usually late and my wife is usually wiped out. I completely understand what she is going through, try to help out as much as possible. Given what she is dealing with it is a sensitive issue in that I am not looking to force her to have more sex or put more on her than she is currently dealing with. On the other hand, having sex makes me feel so much closer to my wife, makes me want sex more (which in turn just leaves me frustrated when a month goes by, to the point where I would actually rather not have sex). Quite honestly, having sex once or maybe twice a month is just not enough for me. Right now I feel like I am living with a roommate and not a wife. We keep saying things have to get better, but like I said this has been slowly going downhill since we had our first kid, and really picked up steam after the 3rd. I am willing to be patient, but at what point do you start to worry that things are not going to change?
> 
> ...



Does a healthy and often sex life make a marriage.....? Really?!

Yes, that sexual closeness will bring hubby and wifee intimately together more than reading books, talking and watching tv will ever do.

Otherwise, you are more friends with benefits or room mates than anything.

If sex isn't important in a marriage for a spouse, they should of stayed single and not torment their other half and think its okay.

The LD spouse is to take care of their other halves needs as their own and not their own.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I disagree 500% unless the parents are doing Way Too Much for the kids. According to my Mom, #3 is when it get easy!
> 
> Kids do NOT need Mom to hover 24/7. In my opinion, actually, that is very bad for them. By a little before 2, they can already be taught helpful behaviors. In the case of this poster's child, this daughter is very demanding, and Mom is giving into the demands rather than setting effective limits.
> 
> ...


I think your arguing with someone who agrees with you. I wrote this before reading every response. A demanding child will kill your marriage and if you want to save the marriage and the child you will have to rethink how and why you do things. And yes that includes taming the dictator.

And by the way my kids do chores but someone also may drop by when they just ran across the house to go potty when they were wet or between eating and getting to those dishes and that is okay with me. my point was our relationships in the household take precedence over the chores.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> I think your arguing with someone who agrees with you. I wrote this before reading every response. A demanding child will kill your marriage and if you want to save the marriage and the child you will have to rethink how and why you do things. And yes that includes taming the dictator.
> 
> And by the way my kids do chores but someone also may drop by when they just ran across the house to go potty when they were wet or between eating and getting to those dishes and that is okay with me. my point was our relationships in the household take precedence over the chores.


I'm down with that.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> As far as getting away, we have very limited access to anyone who can watch our kids, especially overnight or over a weekend, so it really have to be planned out in advance. Would love if we could do this more spontaneously but unfortunately that is not an option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, I'm confused.

If it's all working great, you're getting laid like tile, right?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Does a healthy and often sex life make a marriage.....? Really?!
> 
> Yes, that sexual closeness will bring hubby and wifee intimately together more than reading books, talking and watching tv will ever do.
> 
> ...


Ellis, do NOT begin referring to your wife as "wifee".


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

wifee.......

hubby......

wife and hubs, its all the same.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

the2ofus said:


> And as far as the huggy/kissy vs intercourse thing, one of you have to think longterm to the end result and not just how you feel right now. One of you have to give so you can get what you want even though you are not getting it yet. This is basic stuff I teach my kids, if you want better you might need to give better not wait for the other person to make the first move.
> 
> The hugging, kissing is just a loving thing, not something on her to do list.


This is something my wife and I have talked over several times and just haven't gotten on the same page as. From my perspective long term has not worked, just left me frustrated, and there is a point where I need to take care of myself. On the other side my wife has been so wrapped up with home and my daughter that me/sex is at the very bottom of her list for a long time now. This is why we are where we are now, and why we are taking steps to hopefully fix this.



marduk said:


> So, I'm confused.
> 
> If it's all working great, you're getting laid like tile, right?


I think you lost me, where did I say all was working great, I don't see anywhere in my posts saying that 



NobodySpecial said:


> Ellis, do NOT begin referring to your wife as "wifee".


Lol, not even on my radar


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Also, where my wife and I differ, I have an easy time letting things go. If I have a crappy day, it doesn't consume me, I can shut my brain off. My wife has a much harder time with this. The moment I see she has a bad stretch with my daughter I pretty much know all bets are off for the night as there is no coming back. With the 3 kids, the house, etc... she acknowledges that she can't just shut her brain off, and this undoubtedly comes into play in terms of us as a married couple.





EleGirl said:


> I wonder how easily you could let things go you if lived at your job. What if you had to work your job from the moment you got up in the morning until the moment you went to bed 7 a week, just about every day of the year? That includes you cannot go anywhere without all your co-workers and all your customers (AKA children) go along with you?
> 
> When a person works at a job away from home, home becomes a place to get away from the job.
> 
> Where does she go to get away from the job?



I would like to chime in here and say I have the SAME problem as Ellis with my wife not being able to let things go. In my situation we BOTH work at home and we BOTH share the same career and keeping up with the house and kids.

At night she is usually upset and needs to vent, whereas I let go and want to be playful. This conflict of states is what usually triggers arguments between us. If I listen to her vent it gets me upset, and if I try to be playful she feels I do not care about her day (even though we work side by side on projects together and I've already heard her complain all day when she has issues)

*So this concept of not letting go of the day in your mind is likely an issue common to women. My wife even read this in a book and told me to stop bothering her about it!*

Seems like some focus and attention to a topic like this may deserve another thread, but I'll leave it here for others to discuss. I just wanted to point out that when a man works at home, we (or at least I) can easily escape from everything while we are still at home! Not sure why women tend to have much more trouble with that?


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Nobody Special, also wanted to mention nobody will ever accuse me of being a hover mom, we tend towards the free range side, while teaching responsibilty and healthy boundaries.

Also a GOOD carrier can be a life saver for a kid who has a higher touch need. Put them on your back and do your chores. You give the touch they need before they demand it and decide this is how everything should be. In it I also give them 2 options in the carrier or down playing cause mom has things to get done (yes even a 6 month old can learn this). I give what they need but demands just so they can see how mom can jump are ignored. We had a son who at 4 would still get his ear protection and the carrier when he heard the lawn mower start up, cause that was his time with dad


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*I think you lost me, where did I say all was working great, I don't see anywhere in my posts saying that*
Then what are you willing to change?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> Nobody Special, also wanted to mention nobody will ever accuse me of being a hover mom, we tend towards the free range side, while teaching responsibilty and healthy boundaries.
> 
> Also a GOOD carrier can be a life saver for a kid who has a higher touch need.


"Higher touch need"? Sounds like the kid needs to learn that Mom has needs too. There is just no way in hell someone should be carrying around a 2 year old because they complain.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Ellis, do NOT begin referring to your wife as "wifee".


Have to agree with you - I would not like being called wifee.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> *I think you lost me, where did I say all was working great, I don't see anywhere in my posts saying that*
> Then what are you willing to change?


The first and most important change is to fix the underlying issue which is letting our daughter control our marriage. If we don't change that our marriage doesn't survive. As far as the sex side, that is something that has actually gotten much better over the years with us when we actually have sex. There is not an issue with passion/fire right now. My wife and I allowed our daughter to ruin our marriage these last two years. Now if we are able to correct that and there aren't improvements in other areas then there is obviously something else wrong which will need to be addressed.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> "Higher touch need"? Sounds like the kid needs to learn that Mom has needs too. There is just no way in hell someone should be carrying around a 2 year old because they complain.


That's your opinion. I have happy children who are not demanding, me and my husband agree so it doesn't really matter what you think. For us this is a way for us to do double duty, we have 6 kids and yes they need us. A good carrier that didn't hurt my back made our home function so much better. And if my husband said I should NOT need time with him or touch…………..


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> That's your opinion. I have happy children who are not demanding, me and my husband agree so it doesn't really matter what you think.


Yup. My comment was for Ellis.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

badsanta said:


> I would like to chime in here and say I have the SAME problem as Ellis with my wife not being able to let things go. In my situation we BOTH work at home and we BOTH share the same career and keeping up with the house and kids.
> 
> At night she is usually upset and needs to vent, whereas I let go and want to be playful. This conflict of states is what usually triggers arguments between us. If I listen to her vent it gets me upset, and if I try to be playful she feels I do not care about her day (even though we work side by side on projects together and I've already heard her complain all day when she has issues)
> 
> ...


It may or may not be that women have a harder time to of letting things go at the end of the day. I'm more included to think that it's an individual issue and not gender related. My son's father could not let go of the issues of the day from his job and anything else. I on the other hand have always been able to just put work issues away when I leave the job.. whether I'm working at the office or working from home.

What is important is to recognize how an individual handles this and for them to find ways to learn to let go of the day's issues. A counselor might be able to help if she's willing to do what the counselor suggests. My ex did eventually learn to handle things a lot better. It was hard for him because it's not in his nature, or maybe not how he was raised.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> That's your opinion. I have *happy *children who are not demanding.


So Ellis, my book recommendations might be made clearer if I address this reply. My children's *happiness* was never my goal. Their happiness is entirely up to them and will be for their entire lives. My goal was entirely around raising them to be the best them that they can be to include emotional tools, self esteem (REAL self esteem not this praise driven stuff you read about - Discipline for Life goes into this), responsibility... And it that meant that they were unhappy at any given moment, I was a ok with that. 

The two year old pitches food off her high chair. The two year old comes down. The two year old pitches a fit? Sorry for you, 2 year old. We try again next meal. 

Limit setting needn't be hurtful, nasty or bad. In fact, it is much more effective when it isn't. But teaching the lesson has to ALWAYS be more important than whatever else is going on. Wearing a seat belt while driving is ALWAYS more important than where ever you are trying to get to. And it is the CHILD'S responsibility to stay buckled, not yours to coerce, convince or appease them into it. 

That is why its called investment discipline. Once the child knows that you simply do not ever drive down the road when s/he is not buckled, they will never ever do it again. And it takes 2 late appointments with a VERY strong willed child to get that message across.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Nobody Special, though the specifics may vary, I think we parent fairly similarly. My childs momentary happiness is not my biggest concern. When I say happy I mean an underlying contentment because they have the emotional resources to deal with what life gives them, healthy coping tools. We do praise our kids but only when they've done something praise worthy, no trophies for just existing.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> Nobody Special, though the specifics may vary, I think we parent fairly similarly. My childs momentary happiness is not my biggest concern. When I say happy I mean an underlying contentment because they have the emotional resources to deal with what life gives them, healthy coping tools. We do praise our kids but only when they've done something praise worthy, no trophies for just existing.


Interesting section on praise and self esteem:
http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-LI...430169282&sr=8-1&keywords=discipline+for+life

The everyone gets a trophy thing is not even in it.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Sounds like a book I would enjoy, sounds very similar to what we already do but we can always learn new things. Plus we are surrounded by people who think we should have more rules or think we are too strict when we expect the kids to take responsibility for their actions, or expect them to show kindness (not to be confused with niceness). Having encouragement in book form can sometimes help. Thanks


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

So thought I would give another update since it is actually a positive update (honestly sometimes reading the forums here can beat you down, so a little good news is a good thing).

It has been a little over a week now since my wife and I talked about everything and started making some changes. I would have to say this past week has probably been the best week my wife and I have had as a married couple in years. My daughter is now going to daycare 4x a week for 7 hours and my wife's disposition has noticeably changed. As well we are working to be more proactive when dealing with my daughter to not allow her to control things at home. I took off from work this past Friday so we could go on a lunch date, and even though my 5yr old son crashed the party (he was still a little sick so we kept him home) we still had a great date.

As far as sex .... 4 out of the last 6 nights, which even when things were going well is heading into uncharted territory :smthumbup: As soon as we get the kids to bed my wife is ready to go, so nothing feels forced or like we have to. We have never had an issue reconnecting and this is still the case now as we are able to just pick up where we left off like nothing happened. 

Does this mean we are out of the woods? By no means. It just means we need to fight, or really fight harder, to make sure our marriage still takes a central part of our lives, we are more then just parents. The biggest challenge will be not allowing ourselves to just drift back in to the old habits, which I think most people would agree is very easy to do. 

Looking back on everything, my initial reaction when I started this thread and was dealing with everything internally was to either a) continue to distance myself from my wife which for better or worse that is part of my personality or b) bring the issue up to my wife with the focus being my needs which were not being met. After getting my thoughts down here and getting feedback from everyone, it was clear the best approach was to determine what the root cause was and address that first, especially since I didn't believe there was anything fundamentally wrong with my marriage. Turned out this was definitely the right approach, I don't know if I would have gotten the same result had I gone with my initial thoughts. 

Of course there are always negatives ... my abs are rather sore and I still haven't seen the latest episode of Game of Thrones since I have been pre occupied otherwise


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## Rockinrebel (Apr 3, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> A healthy sex life is but one of the many components necessary for a happy marriage.


And a big necessary IMO. The apparent lack of desire in my then wife, spilled over to other areas of our marriage. A man who feels rejected or not good enough in bed, will have other issues in other areas. Or at least I did. 

I should add, I worked out regularly, ate healthy. I was not obese, or in anyway a slob, reasonablely fit for my age, and very unselfish in bed, putting her needs first. But once she was satisfied, that was it. Years of that. And I was kind outside the bedroom, helped around house. But the rejection in the bedroom, just ate away at me for years and years. 

And the kicker, was when I found out she was cheating, and explicit emails with other mens.

Been divorced 3 years now, and will not go thru that again. If I'm not having sex, then I'll not have it while single. I refuse to enter into a (nearly) sexless marriage again. 

So is sex completely necessary for a happy marriage? No, depending on the people involved. But if you have two people on different desire levels, it almost always creates problems.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Rockinrebel said:


> And a big necessary IMO. The apparent lack of desire in my then wife, spilled over to other areas of our marriage. A man who feels rejected or not good enough in bed, will have other issues in other areas. Or at least I did.
> 
> I should add, I worked out regularly, ate healthy. I was not obese, or in anyway a slob, reasonablely fit for my age, and very unselfish in bed, putting her needs first. But once she was satisfied, that was it. Years of that. And I was kind outside the bedroom, helped around house. But the rejection in the bedroom, just ate away at me for years and years.
> 
> ...


Real sorry to hear but glad you got yourself out of that situation.

One part I found interesting, I never considered myself someone who needs much attention, I am just one of those persons who can happily go along his way on his own. Even when things were so so with my wife in the sex department it wasn't a huge deal. I would get looks/smiles from other women and never had an issue brushing it off. That was the one thing that really hit me when things got bad though, all of a sudden these looks started to really pique my interest, it served as a big warning sign to me that something needed to be fixed. I am in no way a supporter of anyone who cheats, but for a moment I could at least understand how alluring it could be when you go from a situation where you feel like you are invisible to one where someone seems genuinely interested in you.

One of my co workers seems to be going through a very similar situation as I did. One big difference though, at least from what he tells me, his wife treats him like garbage (something my wife has never done) and there are more marital issues, so I imagine that is going to make his situation much more difficult to resolve. I "lucked out" that the underlying issue had more to do with letting our kids consume us and not something more flawed in terms of our marriage.


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## Rockinrebel (Apr 3, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I am in no way a supporter of anyone who cheats, but for a moment I could at least understand how alluring it could be when you go from a situation where you feel like you are invisible to one where someone seems genuinely interested in you.


I in no way condone cheating, no matter what. But I do understand how it can happen. I knew a guy who was in a sexless marriage. Super nice guy, a runner, (peak physical condition). Obviously I don't know all the behind the scenes, but he seemed a real gentleman, and living without sex. Eventually he strayed, his wife found out. But I believe they are still married. Hopefully they worked things out. 

I believe a healthy sex life is very important, but still it's just one part of the relationship. I think the other aspects of relationship need to be healthy as well.


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## Rockinrebel (Apr 3, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Does a healthy and often sex life make a marriage.....? Really?!
> 
> Yes, that sexual closeness will bring hubby and wifee intimately together more than reading books, talking and watching tv will ever do.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I admit I havent read all six pages of this but will respond to 'Does healthy sex life equate to a happy marriage'.

The sexual relation I have (had) with my wife was never 'happy'. In teh first few years (pre children) is was OK at most. After children it went down hill.

I think that if you have a good and healthy relationship with your partner it certainly helps....because sex bonds you emotionally. You can have a raging arguement but then have excellent 'I love you' make up sex.
Sex is the glue that binds you. Sex is what sets you apart from just house mates.

If my wife had been a bit more adventurous, a bit more understanding of my needs, rejected me a bit less often and didn't accuse me of being a disgusting pervert for wanting a blow job or sex outside etc then we wouldn't be where we are now.

I was in one LTR before my wife...lasted about three years...sex was great, we got on like a house on fire...she got offered a fantastic job overseas....absence makes the heart grow fonder..or..out of sight out of mind. The later won, sadly.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Askari: Why didn't you go overseas to be with her? If she was great, why did you let her go? So you could keep the job you had then?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Holding....I was in a job that was basically a 'career for life'...hers was a two year posting. We thought it would work. Sadly it didn't.

My biggest regret.


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