# Need Frank Opinion - a male as well as female POV



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

Am I crazy?

My husband has grand visions but does very little, if any, of the work toward fulfilling things. The hard work gets transferred to my ledger. He's big on promises, but has no intentions of fulfilling them.

When I look back over his list of ambitions, what he's wanted to be in his life, photographer, traveler, sailor, scuba diver, writer, gunslinger, rancher, mountain man, and a someday dad, I'm overwhelmed just thinking of it.

When we started out, he was almost done with college, and I was entering.

He was headed on a journalism path. He ended up nesting in a copyediting and fact checking job.

By the time I was out of school, I started taking editorial jobs.

It took 5 years of dating for him to officially propose. I never nagged, but I started to feel a little strung along.

The it took a year to get married. He and his mother planned it all. I'm not a picky person, and he is very picky and insistent, so I roll over -- a lot.

I started reading up on kids, having kids, educating kids, the moment we got married.

But 4 years into our marriage, he wanted to travel. So we did, for some months, then landed work. We city-hopped for another 7 years.

I knew we need to settle down soon and start a family, but he was very worried about financial security, and yet by moving and moving, we're not creating financial security. I learned this early in our marriage. He'd use a credit card for a normal purchase -- but even normal purchases add up -- and when we'd get the bill, he'd hit the roof. He just doesn't like cutting checks to anyone. He's proud of cultivating that hostility. I said, we charged it, we have to pay for it. Ultimately, I started pay all the bills as he would get stressed and blow up (adult temper tantrum) over any bill -- electric, phone, anything. We never did extras like cable or took out loans.

So 7 years in, he gets laid off (his boss stepped down so he could stay on for just one more year, how nice is that!). But he thought the job would go on forever and didn't prepare. We had conversations about what to do the entire year -- I like to plan, he's not so much that way. Then when he got laid off he went into a downspiral, a depression. He started to have panic attacks and rages, and I was doing some serious overtime and he was just raging at me at night. I would cry on the way home every day, knowing what was in store. About year of that and then he ramps up the panic, that we have to move back east now noW NOW! And I try to reason with him, as I didn't want to move, or at least under duress. I wanted to map it all out, think it through. But there was no reasoning with him once he's in that state of mind -- the wild-eyed crazy look. I have no time to prepare for the move, barely get resumes out. He insisted that we live with his parents. And that just kills me, because we're too old for that, and we are very healthy financially (no debt, investments, and a year's worth of emergency funds), and there's no need for it either. But we move. It doesn't matter what I think, what I believe, what I advise. It just doesn't rate. He has his parents thinking that we're broke, and I tell him I'm working, I pull in great money. But it doesn't rate, what I do doesn't count. I just shut my mouth and deal. I pack, I plan, I deal. I even did most of the driving cross-country so that I could have my mind on something other than feeling like a marginalized kid who has no vote in the matter. I'm a Plan B, Plan C, Plan D person. I figure you can push back at life, and you might get some people to see a rational viewpoint, but at a certain point, you have to accept what's likely to happen, then make a plan to survive or better yet a twist on the bad situation to make it better than you could ever imagine (I like to find the silver lining if at all possible).

So we get back to his parents and I'm researching jobs each and every day. It had my mother in law irritated because I think she wanted me to stick around and for her to be a mom again, but we're in our 30s and we needed jobs asap. My husband was, I was shocked to discover, very slack about looking for work. He cherrypicks, then he complains when nothing comes through. I'm a straight-shooter and tell him if you want a job, you have to cast a wider net, and then I shared my approach with him, but you might not get the perfect job description or the perfect pay or the perfect company with name cache, but you'll be employed and using your skills. He'd complain about that. Then I'd say, you're more selective, you cherrypick, so accept that you'll get fewer leads and fewer replies as more people will apply for a smaller number of openings.

I cast a wide net and got several callbacks. Two of which he joined me on the drive (one in the same state, another in another state). And in both cases, he ripped into me right before the interview with insults and baiting.

(Back in 1998, when I had an interview and job offer I truly wanted -- he really ripped into me and I had to turn it down. I told him I was confused -- he actually put me in contact with the owner -- and that I was sad about turning it down. He was apologetic then. I should have seen that event as a sign.)

So here it was happening again. The first job he joined me on the drive and he started in. I was stunned, just saying over and over we can talk about this later, I have to be in the right frame of mind for an interview. Ultimately, I burst into tears and I guess he had what he wanted. I couldn't stop crying. I got it under control by finding a cafe bathroom and straightening myself up a bit. He was sorry, I guess, and seemed apologetic. I knew we had to hang out in that cafe right up until the interview because he couldn't start an argument publicly. I did the interview, and I was so heartbroken by then, I know it wasn't a good one at all. In truth, I wasn't the best fit for that group anyway, so they made the right choice not to hire me. I understood all that. I didn't blame my husband. But I do feel like he was trying to sabotage me.

For the next interview, I had to drive several states away, so we turned it into a little getaway and a chance to consider where we might live if I got an offer. He was really moody and grumpy. I have mapped out a possible place we might could live that was lovely and peaceful and a place where he could restore himself and work freelance. It was idyllic, if he wanted to heal emotionally, and I was looking forward to showing it to him, the town that is. (This was the same town that 10 years prior he had seen in photographs and he said he would like to check it out and possibly live there.) But he was so moody and complaining and I just will never understand. He had been argumentative and was trying to bait me again, and I just answered robotically and kept my mind on my task. I did the tests, the interview, loved the people, and went back home. Then another opening came up in another state and I went for an interview. I did well on the test and in the interview. When I went back home, I had offers from both companies. He wanted to argue again, not weigh options. So I took him to the public library (can't argue in a library, right?) and outlined how we were to each weigh the options -- really, where we wanted to live -- and rationally make a choice. We each wrote down the categories that matter most to each of us -- two lists (outdoor activities v arts/entertainment, crime, cost of living, etc.). Then, considering each city, each of us assigned a point value for each one. Ultimately, we each had a total point value for each city. In the gray areas, I rolled over, as I we'd never come so close to having a rational decision before. I was determined that it would be nothing like that last move.

We moved. I worked, long hours. I knew my husband still wasn't healed. He was still angry and raging and having panic attacks. So my strategy, one we discussed, was to get into a church (every place we lived, I'd get us into a church, and my husband was lukewarm about it, but it was my fault for not regularly feeding on scripture, so that's why it failed). So we find a church. The second part of the strategy was to find a Christian cognitive behavioral therapist who could challenge irrational ideas. My husband went a few times, but he says that therapists are crazy (I don't agree), he took prescribed medication for a while, then stopped. And the third part of the strategy was volunteerism, as there's no better way to stop obsessing about your own problems than to be in service to others. I'd always volunteer as a way to keep myself emotionally healthy, and I'm just a better me when I serve. So we did ESL. He was great "on the stage." I was disappointed that he didn't want to do the behind-the-scenes lesson building or planning, so I just did that (mainly because I love that part) and he delivered the lessons. Overall, that helped.

So that was in 2005, and he wasn't better -- still raging, still having panic attacks (I wrote a lot about that on this forum under another name). The hardest part about everything was that I wasn't talking to anyone I knew about it -- this forum was all I had. If was afraid that if I told people the way he was (and there are a lot of details) that when he got better, they'd only see that side of my husband and there would forever be this distance between family and him. I just sucked it up. Meanwhile, he's talking to everyone, telling him we're a sinking ship, or something. He'd call me repeatedly at work, panicked. He called the pastor, panicked. He called his parents and friends and brother, panicked. And I could tell they were all getting tired of it. But he wouldn't go to a therapist or take medicine. And I guess it's my fault because I didn't push him. He was the most irrational person I had ever been around, and he was in the driver's seat.

And I went through a bad, bad time with dark thoughts of my own. When you can't make your mate happy, no matter what you try to do (I'd do outings and even a "fun marriage seminar," which he ridiculed, then demanded money back right then and there), when you can't make your mate happy, what's the point of it all?

I walked to work near a train station. And some days I'd think about hopping on that train to some other state and just sitting in another state's train station, just sitting, then maybe coming back. But often I'd think about just laying my head on the tracks. It was a really hard time. Stormie Omartien's books helped a lot.

At some point, my husband became a Christian, to the ridicule of his family. We got baptized, and I went back to work. He was essentially unchanged. He'd rage and a couple of times he sat on me -- I was frustrated and yelling -- and he sat on me to "pray the devil" out of me. Whoa boy. Not a good direction. A lot of bad fights. A lot of me wishing I'd just die. And my thoughts of having kids? It was clear this was not the time to bring a kid into the world. And we were not the couple, that is if we stayed where we were spiritually. So I had my cry and accepted that I might not have kids or get to be a mom. All through the years, I'd had this plan on the side, waiting for the right moment, when we settled, and now my husband has completely unwound. But that's life, and a person can make a positive impact on a kids' life without being a parent -- there's teaching and sponsoring and tutoring and mentoring. And it was hard, but I accepted my Plan B. I should add, before we relocated for my job, my husband was complaining that we didn't have a house or any kids. And I just said, okay, so now it's on your radar, and we'll make it happen. And at the time I thought us being settled, out of his parents' house, was going to make it better, but it was worse. And then I just had to get real with myself, my age, our immaturity as a couple, and just say it wasn't likely to happen. I wrote on this forum about that, too, and the community agreed that it wasn't a good time to have kids. I so need a sanity check. I have no one to talk to. I did talk to my husband about kids, all along. This was no secret. He loves to discuss in the abstract, and when I tell him the hard cold truth about biology, he says I have too little faith, and that I'm being negative, and then he cites outlier cases where women have children very very late in life. Again, my opinion doesn't rate.

Fast-forward to 2007, he finally lands a job in a town an hour away, one he wasn't sure he even wanted, which meant another move. But I'm just happy to see him full-time employed after many years. So we move. He's in the job, and the panic attacks are diminished, but they still happen from time to time, but nothing like before. Things are stable. Right over the border, next state, is a cheaper place to live. So we start thinking of houses (I'd suggested in 2005, after reading an article, that we check out this place, so it's been in the back of my mind for a few years). He'd open to it now. We look and I print out options. He doesn't like my options, so he prints out options, and I see that the house he prints out I was staying away from -- it was not appealing to me at all. He insists. I say, you'll see what I'm talking about for yourself. So I go (roll over). And he gets out of the car and says, I can live here for the rest of my life. I'm thinking two things: This house is as bad as I thought. But he loves it. And I can see the smile on his face, and maybe I should just trust and see it through his eyes. So, we end up getting the house. It was a lot more problems than what the inspector noticed. We sunk $25K the first year into repairs, and each year it's been around $10K (for the last 5 years!). And my husband is always complaining that we don't have much money in the bank. We've not taken out any loans on this, we're just bleeding money (cracks formed in the foundation, ripped out carpet that prior owners' dog urinated on, replaced all the smelly air ducts, all the appliances, regraded rutted driveway, replaced a roof that looked good on the outside, but was leaking underneath, etc.). And this doesn't even touch the cosmetic repairs. So I do all the house maintenance (in addition to the car maintenance), all the cosmetic repairs, have an incredible to-do list of things I need to build (shelves, we're still living out of boxes), and I've been working, too, until recently. In these times when I have time, I try to plow through the work. I'm just exhausted. Now my husband has been nagging me about having kids. We've not been able to conceive for 5 years now (no surprise to me). But I went through the motions to have myself thoroughly checked out and my doctors say that though I'm old that I have enough "reserves" and my tubes are clear, etc. That I should be able to conceive. So my husband takes 6 months to get his tests, and he discovers he can't have kids. And that's okay, I tell him, we can adopt. If we're ready, but you can't take forever, there are cutoff dates (usually) for adopting babies (age 50, I'm told). This just triggers more fights because he can't have things the way he wants when he wants them. And it's my fault, again, because I'm being negative and it's my lack of faith that's causing all the problems.

So he tells me the other day that we should just adopt (he waffles a lot) and I guess that means we have the green flag. So I ask him a few questions - baby? older than 5? siblings? special needs? I don't overdo it. I'm just getting the wheels turning. And little bit by little bit he's considering options. He tells me the other day that he's leaving it all to me, all the research, everything. Sigh. So I have this house, all the bills, the car, my career (because adoption doesn't come cheap) and now the adoption.

He often tells me he wants to be a better husband to me. He told me the other day that he should have listened to me more often. I don't even know what those two things mean. And deep down, I don't believe him. Like when he apologized for sabotaging me before on interview (or at least trying), then doing it again. I see patterns and I don't know when to believe he wants to do things differently. Each time, in the past, when I've believed him, I've held off on progress, move myself to a holding pattern, because he seems to want to be adult-like a discuss things. But each time, in the end, he's the same, and I've lost precious time. From what color paint do you want the bedroom in? I'll paint it whatever you like, dear? [After several years, I think he's decided.] To children or career moves. To get it done, I have to do it. And when I do it, he sees that job I did and nitpicks about why it doesn't look right. I can look at a project I finished and see the flaws and think about how I can perfect it, but mostly I'm thrilled to have most of it done. I can take pleasure in that. And he just sucks all the pleasure out. Like when he came home and saw something a contractor did -- that looked fine in my opinion -- and I get yelled out for not agreeing and for not "supervising" it correctly. In the end, nothing changed, he just blew it out his system and got over it, I guess.

I know I've made many many missteps. I feel like if I had just gotten really *****y and bossy at the beginning and ruled the roost and the rooster that things would have gotten done - tamed and trained my man. A growing relationship with God, reasonable financial security, a home that is humming along for the most part -- the most important, kids. But I'm not a whip-cracker. I don't want to boss my husband. And when I have exerted that pressure (boldly said No), it never, never works. When I say, I need you to do this in the yard -- he complains and curses outside for an hour before he gets under way. Every small frustration sets him off. I have to turn up the radio while I'm working because his mood colors my mood, and I'm happy to be doing something.

And just now on the phone he said that I'm overwhelmed because I don't delegate. Get this ... I have a kanban board on the side of our fridge as my latest effort to kindly allocate tasks. We each are supposed to come up with a backlog and put it through the kanban board so we know where we are in the project. We assign ourselves. He came up with tasks which sit on the board, and mine are done and I'm adding new ones. I won't criticize him on this. The board is the truth teller. A new approach that I hope will work.

Anyway, so it's my fault I'm not delegating. I'm so exasperated. I have dreams of my own, things I'd like to do, things that if I can sound conceited would be brilliant and fun. I know that sounds conceited, but I have this vision for certain career projects that I'm just itching to try, I just know they will work. And all these ideas sit parked in my mind, and I toy with them, and it's like I have a richer fantasy life -- I life on hold -- than my real life, that seems to be full of bogus drama. It seems at every turn, my high-maintenance husband throws a challenge up in my face and I can never finish one challenge before another one's in front of me. He can never be happy. I'm trapped in this house and in this life and crushed under the weight of his to-do list. He creates the vision and I'm supposed to take care of the details. I have vision too.

But then I challenge myself, and I say, what if God wanted me to fix this house I really don't like, to love this house, and to find gratitude in this house. Fix the house, fix myself. I believe that's the answer. I just feel so alone in the process. There's so much more to my story. A lot of hurt. A lot of nasty family members who treated me like trash because I don't come from the "right side of the tracks." And I've absorbed it and lived under their scrutiny until recently when I brought it up -- and they confirmed that's how they felt. I'd rather know the truth, even if it hurts.

But in the end, I still feel alone. And saddled with too much work. And like an empty shell. No kids. What am I here for anyway? What's the point of my life?


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

To make it short, you are being used like an old fiddle and a guy his age has no intentions of changing.
If there's to be any change, it lies with you.
Sorry


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

You're right. 100% right. But what do I change, and how? I'm completely at a loss. If I could just be like a roomate and partition my life -- and just do the work, even if it's all -- and not feel the lonely part, then I think I could muddle through. 

What should I change? And how?


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> Am I crazy?
> 
> My husband has grand visions but does very little, if any, of the work toward fulfilling things. The hard work gets transferred to my ledger. He's big on promises, but has no intentions of fulfilling them.
> 
> ...


go to counseling so someone can tell him other than you and you can have a safe place to voice your displeasure. You need to be prepared to leave though. I am not sure if you can't because of religion or not but at some point there has to be a consequence he fears enough to create change and so far he has not felt the need to change.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

I should add, we've been together 26 years (20 years married). I feel like by now I should have figured this out. I'm stupid or messed up or there's some reason I botched this.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

He thinks counselors are crazy. But I think of it as a giving profession. You're right, though. I need a counselor's input.


----------



## Jane_Doe (Aug 9, 2012)

You should change husbands.


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> I should add, we've been together 26 years (20 years married). I feel like by now I should have figured this out. I'm stupid or messed up or there's some reason I botched this.


stop blaming your self. He is not addressing his issues and you are not forcing him too. You keep taking care of him like a mother and he will continue to act like a son who never moved out.
Counseling will get it all on the table


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You've put too much of this onto yourself. He's sick. The main issue is he won't seek help... if he did you may be able to work on this together to make things better. 

What do you do with a person who doesn't want help? Does it take a separation? Maybe it does. If for no other reason than to get a bit of yourself back.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

There should be consequences. I guess I always felt I couldn't complain or have expectations as long as we weren't settled. Didn't seem fair to hold him to a standard until we were in a real commitment, like house and community, then I could start stepping forward and having more of a say. 

From the Christian community, the answer is "live joyously no matter the circumstances." That really confuses me. I try that from time to time. I think of all this as a test of my character, and I'm still trying to pass this test. But when I step back from that religious advice I think does this mean I don't get to have any expectations? And it doesn't help my husband grow if I just soldier on and he never stretches in the character department. I'm gumby, stretching all over, and he's refusing to stretch, at least in actions, not words. 

I keep thinking that I'll get the house finished and every last detail nailed down, then I'll go take a long break somewhere, by myself in a cave, and live like a recluse. Just sit somewhere and look at the tide going out to sea. I can't believe how much I've aged in the last few years. It's frightening. And if I can just get past this challenge, maybe I can just be done with it and breath again without all the stupid drama. And just be alone. 

I'm not afraid to be alone. I just would feel like I failed at this marriage. I can't make him happy.


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> There should be consequences. I guess I always felt I couldn't complain or have expectations as long as we weren't settled. Didn't seem fair to hold him to a standard until we were in a real commitment, like house and community, then I could start stepping forward and having more of a say.
> 
> From the Christian community, the answer is "live joyously no matter the circumstances." That really confuses me. I try that from time to time. I think of all this as a test of my character, and I'm still trying to pass this test. But when I step back from that religious advice I think does this mean I don't get to have any expectations? And it doesn't help my husband grow if I just soldier on and he never stretches in the character department. I'm gumby, stretching all over, and he's refusing to stretch, at least in actions, not words.
> 
> ...


there is a defining statement. You can't make him happy only he can do that. You have to make your self happy and do what is needed to make that happen. If he won't change, you can't be happy with him. Listen to your self read your words then read the advice. You are blaming yourself for his behavior and then blaming your self for not being able to fix him. Wake up!
You are scared to be alone but you are alone in the marriage already. You do the heavy lifting he sits and lets you.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Failing isn't always a bad thing. It's a jumping off point for taking a new direction. It's the start of something new, and how can the birth of something great be bad?

After all these years, take inventory of what you have learned about him, but mainly about yourself. It's not all for nothing.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

It might seem contradictory, but I'm really not afraid to be alone. I'd welcome it. I know that sounds awful, but I'm a loner at heart. Always have been - in school, in life, even at parties. I'm not a social misfit by far, but I always prefer to be alone. 

I really should never have gotten married, even if it meant not having kids. I'm always cooking up business ventures in my head and writing about them, sharing them with others. I love to see "the networks" and the possibilities. I was made for business partnerships, not marital partnership. But I do think I've worked my butt off trying to make it work, despite not being oriented that way. Funny, I even tried applying management techniques in this marriage (the positive ones, to motivate, help focus, etc.), without my being "the boss."

But you're right about the mess I'm in and needing counseling.


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> It might seem contradictory, but I'm really not afraid to be alone. I'd welcome it. I know that sounds awful, but I'm a loner at heart. Always have been. I moved away from a stable and secure home to help my dad who was mentally ill. That failed miserably, but then again I was only 14. I lived on my own after high school and saved money for college, then had some roomates, but didn't do the party thing, as I was always working.
> 
> I really should never have gotten married, even if it meant not having kids. I'm always cooking up business ventures in my head and writing about them, sharing them with others. I love to see "the networks" and the possibilities. I was made for business partnerships, not marital partnership. But I do think I've worked my butt off trying to make it work, despite not being oriented that way.
> 
> But you're right about the mess I'm in and needing counseling.


Good. then lay it out there for him. We need to go to counseling because I am tired of feeling like I am alone in this marriage. If he says no then you have all the answers you need. Go start networking, start the new you. I hope you can resolve this with him. I wish you the very best of luck.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I'll talk with him and find a counselor. Thanks so much!

Oops ... meant to add: And be open to my changing, too.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Figure out how to untangle yourself, a little bit at a time even. Choose your projects carefully.... choose things you will enjoy. Allow yourself to let go of his issues. 

You already know when he is going to be a jerk about something. Just remind yourself, "He's going to rant and be a jerk, then he's going to get over it." My ex was like that also. But I taught myself to back up and not let his rant or pissy reaction be my problem. I quit feeling sad, or mad, or bad, or even confused about his reactions.... they are HIS.... let him own them. 

I was about your age when he decided he just can't "do this whole marriage and family thing". Jerk. 23 years later???? Now it's 8 years later, and I still shake my head at that. I don't get it. But ya know what? I don't have to GET it! Not my problem. 

I moved on, re-married and have a STABLE life, security (both financial AND emotional), love, respect, desire, the WHOLE NINE YARDS!!! It's totally doable, if that is what you figure out that you need to do. And I'm ok, because I did my part! I went above and beyond, I too, knew the balance in our relationship wasn't right... that wouldn't bother me if it weren't for the lack of all the non-tangible support I wanted all those years. I think he really just didn't know how, and wasn't interested in learning. 

It REALLY REALLY wasn't about me. That is hard to see at the time, and the failure is depressing. But, once you let him "own his own sh*t" and live for REAL.... chase a few of your own dreams, with or without him.... you'll see.


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

You didn't fail the M, he did. He has a mental health issue that he has refused to deal with and keep in check. It's not your responsibility to make him happy, that's on him.

If I were you, I'd look for a job somewhere else without telling him. Then file for legal S/D and have him served after I moved to a new place. He has his parents to fall back on and I'm sure he wouldn't have an issue with that.

I agree that you should have never married him and independent therapy is a must for you to move on.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

A lot to chew on here. A lot of excellent points. I try to not make the same mistakes again and again. To change my approach or my attitude -- motto is just keep trying and there will be some breakthrough. I've learned a lot. 

Case in point:

We had a late-night newspaper shift (4 p.m. to 2 a.m., only my shift was extended to cover midday till 2 a.m. to cover two newspaper departments. Anyway, I had some long days. My husband booked a 6:30 a.m. scuba dive. It seemed like a bad idea at the time, but he's persistent (you can sleep on the boat and it's only a few hours, you can get back in time for work). When morning rolled around (5:30 to make it to the 6:30 departure), my head didn't feel like hauling myself on a boat, etc. So I said I couldn't go. He ranted. Now he knows I don't like confrontation, especially when our landlord can hear. And normally, he yells in public and gets his way, but this time I just put the pillow over my head and thought, here goes. He went out to the car and started blaring the horn, of course, that will not only embarrass me, but wake the neighbors and our landlord. I just sat frozen in bed, mortified. Eventually, the landlord came out, an easy-going West Indian guy, yet still firm in command, I heard him asking my husband what was all the ruckus, and a little back and forth reasonable chatting. My husband came in, called off the dive, and later told me that the landlord said to just let it go and let me have some rest, as I had a long shift. 

Another time, another state, we had booked at a cabin but arrived early with my parents in tow. The owner wasn't on site, so we couldn't check in, and we couldn't go into the national park yet as we had a lot of things, foodwise, that might attract bears. My husband was getting increasingly demanding and agitated, and I suggested, calmly, that we just eat lunch at the picnic tables, as I had already brought the makings (mayo, bread, etc.). I started walking calmly and setting things out, and my husband had a full-blown fit. I kept saying, look, this is perfect, we'll eat lunch leisurely, and then the owner will be back for his lunch and we'll check in then. I bet it'll take an hour, tops. Kept inviting him over, with my parents all setting up everything. He gets in the car and lays on the horn to "call" the owner - figures the owner will come then. There are several cabins there, and people might have been sleeping in, or eating lunch or relaxing after an early morning hike. And he's unstoppable. Just lays on that horn no matter what I say. I was mortified. A visitor came out of his cabin and glared at us, then gets in his car and takes off. Sure enough, the cabin owner comes, wondering what all the fuss is. Probably thought there was a big forest fire or something. Of course, the owner was over the top gracious, a real class act, and my husband felt like a buffoon afterward. I talked about it with him afterward. It was horrible, but we had to talk about it. 

There are so many stories like this. Just I don't understand. 

We dated for 5 years, and he was a little emotional, a little overwrought, but it wasn't anything you wouldn't hear other couples going through. He almost eletrocuted himself doing something incredibly foolish, at the time we were dating, and he was an emotional wreck after that. Really scrambled in the head. But then he re-set, rebooted or something. I just don't understand.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Again... he has a mental illness. If you stop expecting reasonable behavior from him then his actions wouldn't baffle you. He's not capable of sustained reasoning. He's unstable. Emotionally unbalanced. That doesn't make him a bad person, he just has a problem.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

What kind of illness do you think he might have? 

It's all so sad. When I was 14 I left a stable home to live with my dad, thinking I could change his luck. He was shattered by my mom divorcing him, and never seemed to make it out of that hole of depression. I loved him, naturally, but boy was I a know-nothing. I really thought that by loving him and being there and listening to him that I could spark something in him that wanted to live and really live fully. He unraveled and worsened and all that was on my watch. He was nice to me, but in passive ways I think he was trying to "chase me away." He'd leave me out waiting for him for hours after school. There were times I didn't know if or how I could get home. The city bus driver would come by and say last stop, do you want a ride, you've been out here for hours. Like from 3 p.m. to 9 p.m. I didn't know if he was dead or anything. He did a lot of things like that. Had the electricity cut off, no phone, and looking back I think he wanted me out of his life. He always bemoaned that he wasn't part of his kids' lives, and I was trying to replace those lost years with the few kid years I had left, and he didn't really do anything with that opportunity. 
And ultimately he was committed and diagnosed as schizophrenic and I had to move away. It was all very bizarre how that happened. I wondered if he had used psychotropic drugs -- but what does a kid know? So I moved away. And then I started to have a plan for my own life, as I'd never thought about what I wanted to do. And I lived by myself, got mentally healthy again, worked, then saved for college, then applied and got accepted. My dad (now out of the hospital) visited me and said I should let him move in with me, that I should take a job at the local factory and do night school. It was hard to tell him no, but I had to. It was hard to see him walk away from my yard and know he didn't have a ride, and know I wasn't going to offer him one. I watched him. He might not have known that. 

But in the end, he committed suicide. And I was the closest one to him. And it's the biggest failure of my life. Up till now. 

And I can't believe it's happening again. I thought I was careful. I really do try to think things through, but I royally messed this up.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You aren't responsible for your father and what happened to him. You also aren't responsible for your husband and what's happening to him. You picked up with your husband where you left off with your father. It's a pattern. You want to complete the circle. The thing is, the answer is not in these people. You have to find out why you feel responsible for fixing broken people. Counseling will help, but you have a lot of work to do on your own.

I'm not a doctor, but your husband sounds like he's also schizophrenic.


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

That's chilling. 
When I met my husband he was always happy-go-lucky. Persistent or pushy, depending how you looked at it, but pretty happy smiley guy. I used to say he was Mr. No Baggage. A free spirit. Am I the common denominator? Am I turning people crazy? 
I steer far clear of people who are needy and with problems, mainly because my helper instinct kicks in and they'll want me to go out for coffee to hear their problems for hours or something like that. I just feel so depleted afterwards, but I'm a magnet for people like this, so now I just basically hide out and life is better, expect maritally speaking, these persistent problems that escape me. 

But I've thought about the link between my dad and my husband. My dad personality wise was different, but I do find myself making a lot of over the top sacrifices that are foolish and in the end maybe never asked of me. 

Maybe I'm the common denominator? I'd do better to live in a cave and not involve myself with others!


----------



## LostAgain13 (Jul 11, 2013)

Anyway, thanks for all the input. Wise insight. I have a lot to think over, and likely need professional help, as I'm out of my depth. Thanks again!


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> My dad personality wise was different, but* I do find myself making a lot of over the top sacrifices that are foolish and in the end maybe never asked of me*.


This is your core issue. Why do you do this?

You don't make people crazy. They're already off when they meet you. Maybe you're a beacon and draw them in


----------



## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> I'm not afraid to be alone. I just would feel like I failed at this marriage. I can't make him happy.


You seem like such a put together person with a lot of social and emotional strengths. Not to mention your organizational and planning abilities. I was exhausted just reading all the times you had to move, interview for new jobs, and your planning and organizing everything. No wonder you're down right now.

You cannot make your H happy. You cannot fix your H. You cannot make up for what happened with your father by helping your H. What happened with your father was not your fault. You ended up trying to be your father's parent. You've ended up trying to be your H's parent.

I do hope you go for counseling to break this cycle you have with your H. I don't think it's healthy for either of you. It sounds like your whole M has been you walking into nonstop headwinds. Again, your life sounds exhausting, with you thinking you just need to be a little more organized, emotionally supportive, etc. and then things will improve. Geez, I don't think you can do any more than you have and this does not equate with failure. I think through counseling you could change this dynamic within yourself, have a safe place to talk, and figure out where you go from here. 

Also, your H's new-found religion just sounds like one more way to manipulate you. Maybe his old tactics weren't working as well. Now he has a new way to throw tantrums and get his way.


----------



## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

LostAgain13 said:


> A lot to chew on here. A lot of excellent points. I try to not make the same mistakes again and again. To change my approach or my attitude -- motto is just keep trying and there will be some breakthrough. I've learned a lot.
> 
> Case in point:
> 
> ...


You really should rent that movie "Waitress".


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

YOU are an absolutely BRILLIANT woman. WHY in the WORLD have you stayed with this man?? Your post broke my heart, I read it and all I could think of was what a waste! I can tell by reading this about you that you would totally THRIVE by yourself! That was a very lengthy post, and you know whats missing from it? LOVE. Not one line about how much you love him, or how much he loves you. You have not failed this marriage, he has. Actually, he is failing LIFE. I dont know how you have been able to stand all that constant moving around! He is never going to change, this is who he is and how is always has been, and always will be. Havent you had enough? The last 26 years of your life have been spent being unhappy with this man, do you really want to spend the next 26 + the same way?? There is a whole world out there for a brilliant woman like yourself, for God's sake, go find it.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

You are not afraid to be alone, actually you prefer it
You have no children
You get good paying jobs and can afford to live on your own
You are empty and miserable
You have given this situation several years and still you feel you have no point in your life


*WHAT IS KEEPING YOU FROM BEING ALONE?*


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh Lost, reading your post about your father makes things so much clearer...you replaced him with your H. Although they may be very different in many ways, they are both damaged. You were emotionally abused by your father and have placed yourself in the receiving position once again with your H. It's your normal, your comfort zone. I'm sure you can pinpoint things with your H that while dating you knew were not normal but you were willing to accept. To must people there would have been enough red flags to make us run the other way. 

This happens a lot, it explains how must of us end up in dysfunctional relationships, myself included. My father was never one to show much affection or attention. He would do anything for a friend yet would complain if one of us, his own children, needed help. Growing up I would here what a great guy my father was and how lucky we were to have a dad like that:scratchhead: They didn't know the father side of him.

So naturally I married someone who is lacking in those same areas and wonder where I went wrong 22 years later

As far as your H's mental health, I thought he had been on medication at one point but stopped, am I wrong? He comes off as being an immature, controlling, selfish bully but this could all be because of an imbalance of some sort. I'm not a professional by any means, but reading about his rants and raves doesn't sound like a normal reaction. But then again, this could just be a dependent/co-dependent dysfunctional M at its best


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LostAgain13 said:


> You're right. 100% right. But what do I change, and how? I'm completely at a loss. If I could just be like a roomate and partition my life -- and just do the work, even if it's all -- and not feel the lonely part, then I think I could muddle through.
> 
> What should I change? And how?


Well, what I would encourage you to change is your perception about where you fit in the scheme of things and what is really going on with your husband. 

Your husband has a mental illness. It could be bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, an anxiety disorder, or a mix of more than one of these. By hanging in and rolling over again and again, you're demonstrating tremendous loyalty, but he has an obligation to honor you similarly, and you are not requiring him to uphold his end of the bargain. 

I understand that you're Christian and that divorce is not an option you would look forward to, but I hope you will get into some counseling for yourself to figure out why you do not value yourself enough to uphold reasonable boundaries with this man.... why you tolerate the emotional abuse you're experiencing.


----------

