# foreign marriage less than 2 years



## Jay417 (Jul 14, 2013)

I met my wife in '05 in SF via mutual friends, and we got married in '11 in Japan, and she immigrated in '12 (last year). We're about 18 months through the 2-year legal "conditional residency" period [ie, I still have to sign a piece of paper soon that grants her permanent residence]. She lived here previously for quite a while on a student visa. First marriage for both of us.

The big-ticket problems (from my viewpoint) are that pretty much everything we agreed to (multiple times) went right out the window on her arrival, and she radically changed. She stopped working, stopped studying (English has degraded -- camps on the couch all day surfing the 'net watching/reading Japanese), refused marriage counseling we agreed to earlier, wants kids to go to Japan for schooling, suddenly jealous of my had-it-forever 8yo dog, etc.

A few weeks after she got here, she developed child-like temper tantrums (throwing things, stomping and waving arms, yelling) when not take shopping to her place of choice immediately, but I think we worked that out of her behavior. But I am worried it will return.

She asked for some crazy expensive items up-front (car, jewelry, cash for beauty school), which I denied for good reasons, obviously.

Vanity went off the chart, way above what I would consider normal for even a "high vanity" woman. To the point of ruining trying to enjoy things outside.

She became resistant to flirting, even threatening me with silent treatment if I tickled her skin once more, etc. Intimate life is in the toilet.

In Japan she's this nice relaxed person. Over here in the USA, she's become totally different. But when she skypes her family in Japan, she laughs and smiles and looks so happy.

What really jerked my chain recently though was that she announced to me that she finds hairy chested middle eastern guys attractive over dinner. Yeah, I so don't fit that description.

So about a month ago, I told her I was not happy with the marriage. There's no way I can start a family like this. I think it took her a week to figure out I was serious, and that it would affect her immigration, and suddenly she's nice, thoughtful, not raising hell, agreeable, compromising person. But I shouldn't have to hold her feet to the fire. Her family visited a few days later from Japan on _very_ short notice. What stumps me is that my wife never suggested to visit any of my family while they were here.

About my behavior: I respond to her in a way that I think my parents and her parents would appreciate. I have never raised my voice, or ever hinted at violence, or anything like that. I don't drink often, or ever smoke, a well paid engineer, very fit top 1% runner, multiple hobbies and always working far too hard. My achilles heel is that sometimes I'm quiet and not very expressive.

At this point, due to the relative shortness of the scenario, since I'm just shaking my head and rather unhappy in a zombie-like state, is to just pull the plug. Am I thinking about this correctly? Or am I way out of line? I feel like I made an embarrassing mess, but I'm going to have a stroke at this rate. I think we were both romantic and hopeful, but underestimated cultural differences and challenges of immigration. Sorry for the long love letter above.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Your situation is not unheard of, she's in for the visa. I would contact an immigration lawyer to make sure she doesn't get the visa and you don't get penalized, you shouldn't but its better to check.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jay417 said:


> I think we were both romantic and hopeful, but underestimated cultural differences and challenges of immigration.


Perhaps so, Jay. It may be explained by cultural differences. Or perhaps Mable is correct about her being in it for the visa. On the other hand, the behaviors you describe -- childlike and very controlling behavior, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control (e.g., spending), irrational jealousy, strong sense of entitlement, and inability to sustain intimacy -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has.

I therefore suggest you read my description of typical BPD behavior to see if most BPD traits sound very familiar. My post describing them is at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. I also suggest you read Kathy Batesel's description of narcissism at Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It. If either of those descriptions rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you -- and I would suggest you see a psychologist for a visit or two, all by yourself, to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. Take care, Jay.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Could be BPD but the fact that she changed dramatically make me think she's out for the visa
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Suggest you not go through with signing anything until you figure out the bizarre behavior and be ready to call it all off if it goes that direction.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

mablenc said:


> Could be BPD but the fact that she changed dramatically make me think she's out for the visa


Perhaps so, Mable. Indeed, what you suggest may be even be the most likely explanation for what Jay is describing. Such a dramatic change in the spouse, however, also is common for BPDers as they move away from the infatuation stage. That is, it is typical for the sex life with a BPDer to be intensely passionate for 6 months (sometimes even as long as a year) and then go off a cliff right after the wedding, if not before. When the infatuation evaporates, a BPDer's two great fears return. 

Alternatively, the described behaviors may be explained by strong traits of narcissism -- if the W is emotionally stable and never was capable of actually loving Jay. I suggested that Jay first consider strong BPD traits because he seems to describe her as having really loved him and as being emotionally unstable. If either BPD or narcissism does apply in this situation, Jay likely will recognize the warning signs when he learns what red flags to look for.


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation, it could be Narcissism , BPD or she wants visa only,, anyway, it does not look good and you have to figure out what is wrong with this woman. Some women get married to have a visa and then get a divorce! Be careful!!


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## Jay417 (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks for the various suggestions.

She fits Uptown's BPD description pretty well. I've been pondering how I would handle the divorce, because I know she will go entirely nuclear and vindictive. I've already relocated key documents, irreplaceable items, and dangerous items. Except for my digital piano instrument preferably, the rest can burn.

I really don't think she's in it just for a visa. And I'm sure she has pressure from her family to stay married. But there is no doubt that she also really think she wants to immigrate to the US. And no doubt that she is emotionally unstable way above and beyond normal. Walking on eggshells is not very fun.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Jay417 said:


> Thanks for the various suggestions.
> 
> She fits Uptown's BPD description pretty well. I've been pondering how I would handle the divorce, because I know she will go entirely nuclear and vindictive. I've already relocated key documents, irreplaceable items, and dangerous items. Except for my digital piano instrument preferably, the rest can burn.
> 
> I really don't think she's in it just for a visa. And I'm sure she has pressure from her family to stay married. But there is no doubt that she also really think she wants to immigrate to the US. And no doubt that she is emotionally unstable way above and beyond normal. Walking on eggshells is not very fun.


Is the situation bad enough to have her committed, for her own safety? She would at least start treatment? I'm only asking because you mention:

" I've been pondering how I would handle the divorce, because I know she will go entirely nuclear and vindictive. I've already relocated key documents, irreplaceable items, and dangerous items. Except for my digital piano instrument preferably, the rest can burn."

Don't be afraid to have a cop present if you feel she can harm herself or you.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Perhaps so, Mable. Indeed, what you suggest may be even be the most likely explanation for what Jay is describing. Such a dramatic change in the spouse, however, also is common for BPDers as they move away from the infatuation stage. That is, it is typical for the sex life with a BPDer to be intensely passionate for 6 months (sometimes even as long as a year) and then go off a cliff right after the wedding, if not before. When the infatuation evaporates, a BPDer's two great fears return.
> 
> Alternatively, the described behaviors may be explained by strong traits of narcissism -- if the W is emotionally stable and never was capable of actually loving Jay. I suggested that Jay first consider strong BPD traits because he seems to describe her as having really loved him and as being emotionally unstable. If either BPD or narcissism does apply in this situation, Jay likelBy will recognize the warning signs when he learns what red flags to look for.


yeah you are correct.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jay417 said:


> Walking on eggshells is not very fun.


That's why you should stop doing it. And that's why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


> I've been pondering how I would handle the divorce, because I know she will go entirely nuclear and vindictive.


Jay, if your W has strong BPD traits as you suspect, "nuclear and vindictive" is exactly what you should expect. My BPDer exW, for example, had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge so she could stay in my home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here). I therefore suggest you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ It was released a year ago by the same author who wrote the _Eggshells_ book.


> No doubt that she is emotionally unstable way above and beyond normal.


Emotional instability is the key trait of BPD. Indeed, of the ten personality disorders in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the only one having instability mentioned in its list of traits that are used for diagnosis.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Jay what a mess. Am I reading this correctly - she was fine from 2005 till 2011 when you moved to the USA. Were you in a long distance relationship or did you see each other every day? How much time did you spend alone? 

I ask that you consider the depth of deception. The realization will help your resolve. You certainly did not rush into this marriage. You got to know her over a period of 5 yrs or more.

If she did not reveal this side of herself then she knowingly deceived you. You married one person and got another and therefore you have a right to D the virtual stranger. 

If she is BPD, be prepared for many years of abuse and stepping around her carefully. The likelihood of cheating and leaving the marriage is great. 

Also, if you have children with her, you will have to live with the anxiety that she will leave for Japan and never come back with your kids. 

You did not make a mistake, she did. She thinks you are a chump but she read you wrong, right? 

I think you should not have sex with her so that there are no accidental pregnancies. No matter who goes ballistic and try's to make you the bad guy, do not stay married to this imposter. 

Don't buy the act, the real person is the one she unveiled when she thought she secured her goal. When she gets what she wants, that person will come back. Don't forget. 

Anyone who gets on your case for D at this time, tell them to marry her. 

The process of D will be emotionally draining but just keep going back to this- for 5 yrs, she hid her real agenda and instability from you. She did not let you chose who you wanted to marry.

She manipulated you to marry a woman with values and character that are not compatible with yours. Now that you know, you have the right to make your choice.

She is stupid to reveal herself before she had kids and a permanent visa. 

Take your good fortune and run.


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## Jay417 (Jul 14, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Is the situation bad enough to have her committed, for her own safety? She would at least start treatment?


She carries a healthy dose of traditional Japanese pride (entirely expected) so it's not like that. That same pride will keep her from attending counseling / treatment though.



Uptown said:


> That's why you should stop doing it. And that's why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


Yeah I did actually, mostly. And although I hammered back some of her emotional explosiveness, I can still often see the resentment when she doesn't get her way. It's just bottled up, still there.



Uptown said:


> My BPDer exW, for example, had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge so she could stay in my home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here).


Heh, similar story about my dad and mom 13 years ago, which kicked of their divorce. I pondered all their mistakes in detail, yet made all new ones. 



Catherine602 said:


> If she did not reveal this side of herself then she knowingly deceived you. You married one person and got another and therefore you have a right to D the virtual stranger.


Nah, some of this is my fault I guess for ignoring some warning signs. I didn't realize how bad it could blossom. She's just not following through with integrating into the culture here though -- that's a dead in the water scenario for me.



Catherine602 said:


> She is stupid to reveal herself before she had kids and a permanent visa. Take your good fortune and run.


She's not entirely stupid -- but it's clear to me now that she simply doesn't think ahead too much.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jay417 said:


> She simply doesn't think ahead too much.


That is to be expected, Jay, if she has strong BPD traits. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning and are able to plan ahead at their jobs. With close personal relationships, however, their judgment is undermined by their two fears. The result is that, in close relationships, they tend to be very reactive to whatever intense feeling they are experiencing at that particular moment. 

Hence, even when BPDers do try to plan ahead with such relationships, they usually are quick to abandon those plans as soon as their mood changes. Moreover, it is difficult for an unstable person to make personal (non-business) plans because she likely doesn't know today what she will be wanting two weeks from now. This, at least, is my understanding, Jay.


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

I'm afraid she's in for the visa.
I myself am a foreigner under a process of being sponsored by my husband to get a visa/permanent residency. Although I often times feel lonely and a bit more sad for having to sit at home all day while I don't get my visa, I'm actually quite happy when my husband gets back home in the evening. And I keep studying his native language, which is quite difficult (and after becoming fluent in English and able to go to graduate school).

Yes, I sound very happy when I talk with my family on skype, but that's because I miss them and while I speak to them I don't feel as lonely. And yes, I am also a "beauty-addict" but everything I buy is with my money, never with my husband's money. Even if I did buy with his money, that would be just another reason to be even more polite with him - it's not your duty to buy those extras to your wife. 

Also, my marriage is not in the best shape but that only makes me reconsider the visa application and I'm not travelling while I'm not sure about the future. Running from Japan to the US to behave like that sounds a bit too opportunistic to me. 

P.S.: Not sure how it works in the US, but I know that in other countries you have to sponsor her and be responsible for her financially during 2 or 3 years. Be careful...


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## Jay417 (Jul 14, 2013)

LVF said:


> I'm afraid she's in for the visa.


It's been a month. I talked gently with her about the state of the marriage. She's been ridiculously nice to an embarrassing degree. But today out of the blue she voiced major concern for her green card renewal, and she wants to leave our Bay Area apartment, and go camp in my out-of-the-area house.

A-haha, right. Well that's that.


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## Jane_Doe (Aug 9, 2012)

My American hubby and I are almost at our two year mark too. My permanent residency conditions on my green card are about to be dropped around Dec/Jan. Moving across the world is certainly hard work, and I had my moments of lounging around the house, not working or helping, just watching British shows on Netflix.

But what you're going through is ridiculous! Homesickness can't explain away that level of crazy. 

Now, I have no advice as to whether you should leave or stay, because that is your personal decision regarding the rest of your life. I do know that her residence can still become unconditional/permanent even if you divorce or the marriage breaks down. As long as she has proof that the marriage was entered into 'in good faith' (which should have already been proven when you applied for her original visa, and will be further evidenced by your continued cohabitation).

If you have hard proof that she is just in it for the green card, you can probably submit this to the USCIS and they may decide to revoke her green card entirely. But you do need proof.

If you divorce based on irreconcilable differences, and her green card is renewed, she might be able to get alimony/support etc., which I think would be a terrible idea if she turned out to just be using you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jay, thanks for returning to give us an update. I'm sorry to hear that her eratic behavior has started up again.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Regarding immigration.... 

1. Even if you don't file documents after the 2 year mark stating you are still married she can still prove your marriage was valid (or entered under good intentions) 

2. If you stay together and she gets her condition removed and a 10 year card you will be responsible for her until:
- she dies
- she becomes a citizen (so 1 more year if you are a citizen, if they are counting from the issue of her conditional card). She can chose to never become a citizen.

Couple of other reasons. You are basically signing that you will support her and she will not be a burden to the state. If she gets any kind of Welfare you can be held responsible for paying it back.

I WOULD NOT SUGGEST talking to the same lawyer who is responsible for your case. If for any reason you stay together and chose to file for 10 year INS can call you in personally and ask your lawyer OR your lawyer can refuse to continue the application based on statements made. There is a weird line of client privileged info in these cases.
I think you need to have a serious talk with her, and a lawyer.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

BTW I would suggest taking a step back here and really discussing this, think rationally before making decisions and have a frank conversation with her about these issues.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

If you have hard proof that she is just in it for the green card, you can probably submit this to the USCIS and they may decide to revoke her green card entirely. But you do need proof.

Thought I would comment on this. I would be VERY careful about this. 
The question would be- why did you not submit this proof sooner? You do not want to be fined or found to be misrepresenting your marriage.
The fact that she is asking for certain things isn't proof that she only married you for a green card. 

If she is erratic and feels like she has nothing left to lose (because you stated this) she may say YES he took x cash from me.

Remember you were under oath. 

I have had a few friends in these situations and you really need to think carefully about the repercussions.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...so...she was fine in Japan for a year.
...then she started acting crazy in the US.

BPDs usually can't hold it together for more than 6 months, so I wouldn't expect that she's that crazy. If you saw signs before moving, that's different. She's more likely to be annoying and neurotic than actually BPD.

It also doesn't sound like a green card marriage to me. It sounds like you two did well in Japan and poorly in the US. If she hid your marriage from everyone in Japan, particularly her parents, that's more believable. Hiding just from her parents friends would be reasonably normal, for Korea at least.

OTOH, many people have trouble with cultural changes. My wife thought she preferred America - in some ways, she does, but she's a lot less healthy here. It happens. The US is relatively weak in terms of support structures for people and there are _a lot_ of functional people from Asia who simply can't cope here. One of my friends spent 10+years before his wife moved back to China. Another person moved to China with his wife after 40+ years in America.*

It might make sense to just talk about how she's turned into a depressed looking couch potato and how that's going to be a problem, long-term. Maybe ask her if she thinks she can stay in America and be healthy. It took my wife 10 years to really start reaching out - so - even if it is just culture shock - it isn't necessarily minor.

--Argyle
*It isn't just the language barrier. It is also all the missing structure and cultural cues. And the miserable loneliness and distance between people. And loneliness and racism - often felt particularly strongly by short Asian women.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

I can't see why she'd just be in it for the visa, it's not like she was a barefoot peasant from Oaxaca.


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## Jay417 (Jul 14, 2013)

No I don't have any proof of upfront bad intentions. I've known her for 8 years, met her family early on. She told _everyone_ she was getting married (friends, family) so she seemed excited about it. Claiming fraud would just sound like crazy talk. She's never given me a penny, definitely a one-way cash flow (with an accurate financial ledger to prove it.) Even the marriage money gifts from her family, I never saw any of it, or even how much it was, she spent it all.

But she already moved out into the spare bedroom, and hasn't attempted to initiate / question lack of intimate contact for 9+ months. I don't know how that will be interpreted ...


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...maybe ask her and explain that American men (or you) expect XYZ? There's a real danger of being blindsided by different expectations.

Overall, you may have a bad marriage, but it doesn't sound like a fraudulent one. It may be that she is more comfortable with a sexless marriage than you are. Perhaps she has different expectations from marriage than you do.* Or perhaps she is simply having trouble coping with life in the USA.

If you knew her for 8 years without trouble, BPD would be surprising. Also, consider the possibility of autism - it can look a lot like BPD, but will typically have more trouble with adaptation.

--Argyle

*I have no idea if this article is accurate, but there may be some truth to it. 

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/0...ek-marriage-to-foreigners-not-always-perfect/

The author's article claims to have observed marriages in which Japanese women (a) cut off sex, (b) found their husbands girlfriends, and (c) slept with other men.


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Sorry to hear what that woman is playing. I do not see what you like about her, she is a user and you will find out after a couple years when she will leave you without any remorses nor regrets.


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## iameugene (Aug 23, 2013)

Wow Jay, sorry to hear that but it seems like I'm in a similar situation as you. The wife was all great pre-marriage but post-marriage was a disaster. Oh and my wife isn't that far off from being Japanese (she's Korean).

Totally understand the temper tantrums, her asking you to buy expensive stuff and the no sex thing. Honestly, I haven't touched my wife since after our wedding, she's like a totally changed person for me. 

Anyways, do hope things work out for you mate! Cheers and all the best! :smthumbup:


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## Singleton (May 30, 2013)

Jay, as many here said, it could be many reasons for her ill behavior: BPD, NPD, visa etc. The most important thing is that none of them are good or promising and whatever it is it will bring you more misery.

My ex-wife is a high-functioning Borderline (cancer surgeon). She will never change. Most importantly she does not want to change. She "likes the way she is"! And of course: It is all my fault!

It is maybe time for you to use your running skills to save your life if you cannot save your marriage.

Sorry man


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