# When Does The Parent Gravy Train End?



## FlyBoyJ (Mar 13, 2018)

My wife and I have VERY different opinions on parenting. I have one daughter (13) from my first marriage, she has two daughters (24 and 20) from her first. My daughter lives with her mom, my ex. My wife (married 2 years, together 8 total) had full custody when her daughters were kids.

My view of parenting is I guess what you would say was a more traditional one. I was raised by my mom and my dad, and when I turned 18, I became independent. I went away to college and graciously, my parents paid my tuition, books and room and board. I was told in no uncertain terms that the college funding would only be for four years, so I better work hard and get my degree. I did just that, graduating in 3 1/2 years. While at college, I worked and paid for everything else, gas, car, beer, pizza, fun, etc. When I graduated, I moved back to my parents house for just a month or so, immediately got a full time career path job, 100% financially supported myself (car, insurance, food, etc, etc) and then got a roommate and an apartment. I never relied on my parents for anything from that point on.

My wife sees parenting as the typical suburban helicopter mom. She believes it's "our responsibility" to support her GROWN ADULT daughters still. Now since my wife only works part time, and I never have seen a dime of that income, and it doesn't go to the household expenses but instead her "slush fund" which she gladly gives to "her girls". 

The 24 year old just FINALLY graduated from college after 6 years and has moved home and reverted to her high school years. She works part time at a job which is definitely not a "career path" job, parties every night, lays in bed all day when not working and on and on. The 20 year old in addition to being perhaps the stupidest person on the face of the earth, is also the laziest! She claims to have been taking classes at the local junior college for the last two years, but yet says all the time she's "a long way away from her AA degree". My suspicion is she signs up for the classes, never goes, then drops them. Whenever I come hone early from work or swing by the house to grab something during the day (I run my own business), she's there, in bed. She doesn't work but a couple of hours a week maximum.

They both do absolutely no household chores, leave dishes and garbage all over, and don't lift a finger. Mom however is in her glory right now saying things like "I love having my girls home again". She's cooking for them, doing their laundry, taking grocery lists from them, filling their cars with gas and handing over cash whenever they ask. Now guess whose hard work that cash is coming from? That's right, MINE!

I really hit my limit today when I discovered that when my wife had asked for me to transfer some money to her debit card so she could "get gas for her car", she actually put gas into her lazy daughter's car. I exploded and said that I am not responsible for housing, supporting or taking care of grown able adults. She went off on me calling me every name under the sun. In her world, "this is my girls house and they are welcome anytime and free to help themselves to anything they want, FOREVER." I replied, "no, they are now grown adults, they are not children anymore. They are guests in OUR (mine and my wife's) home and they really should be paying rent in addition to paying for their own living expenses.

Wife went crazy telling me how "hateful " I am and "how can you be so mean to kids?" I said, "they aren't kids!" My wife seems to think that her "job" as a parent is to financially support and do everything for her offspring in perpetuity. I, on the other hand believe, as I think normal parents do that it's time for her daughters to support themselves. She claims, "all parents support their kids well into their 20s and 30s around here". I said, "well, not me!" She views the parenting in this god awful spoiled rich entitled community we live in (I moved here for the wife) as "normal", while I view decades old parenting techniques like forcing your kids to grow up and support themselves when they become adults.

Am I out of line?? I know divorce is a solution, but my wife, despite alot of problematic traits, does still have my heart, so I hate to rush into divorce.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This sounds SO familiar. Have you posted about this very same problem previously?

Don't you know what you should do about this?


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## FlyBoyJ (Mar 13, 2018)

Livvie said:


> This sounds SO familiar. Have you posted about this very same problem previously?
> 
> Don't you know what you should do about this?


Yes, I have. I have tried talking to her about it. In our conversations she says she agrees with me (at least with respect to the 24 yr old) but then fails to do anything about it. When I try to do something, I get attacked.

I know I should probably just walk away, but it's easier said than done. I guess I come here to at least get some validation on my line of thinking, because according to her, I'm just "an awful person".


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## Cat Lady (May 7, 2019)

My kids got one free year at home after high school, which extended if they went to college. After that they had to pay rent at home. Once they moved out I did NOT pay for anything. NOTHING. They could move back home if needed but always had to pay rent. If they couldn’t pay rent, which did happen, they had to earn their keep by doing major stuff around the house/yard. In addition to regular daily things like unloading the dishwasher.

At the very least I would say you and your wife need to split the financial responsibilities and SHE pays for anything she decides she simply must pay for her girls. If she can’t afford it they don’t get it. My husband and I have separate bank accounts and bills. The kids are not biologically his. He decided to take all of us on and marry me, but I never have and never will expect him to pay for the kids living expenses since they’ve grown! And I don’t pay for them either. We are always here to help with budgeting for them, and provide a roof in case of emergency (one son has a very rocky relationship and his gf keeps kicking him out but even then he has to buy his own food) and loans - LOANS - for smaller emergency expenses. Just paying for everything is doing them a disservice - they cannot and will not become independent humans under those circumstances.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah. I looked at some of your other threads.

The best thing you can do for yourself is figure out what it is in yourself that lets you stay in a situation like your marriage. I actually mean that in a helpful way. Truly delve into it. 

What's going on with you that you stay?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FlyBoyJ said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > This sounds SO familiar. Have you posted about this very same problem previously?
> ...


You CAN do it 

I say it because I did it. I left a negative marriage under difficult circumstances.

If you want to change your life for the better, you can.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It's easy for moms to love their kids to the level of detrimental parenting. It is a balancing act. Raising kidults seems to be becoming all to common these days.


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## FlyBoyJ (Mar 13, 2018)

Livvie said:


> Yeah. I looked at some of your other threads.
> 
> The best thing you can do for yourself is figure out what it is in yourself that lets you stay in a situation like your marriage. I actually mean that in a helpful way. Truly delve into it.
> 
> What's going on with you that you stay?


I think it's fear of another divorce, fear of having my family and friends say "I told you so" because I probably wasn't smart rushing into a relationship with my now wife so soon after my first divorce. I see it now as my now wife was simply looking for a "sugar daddy" to support her spawn. I also fear the fact that I have now built my business back up in this town, which I hate by the way and only moved here because this is, according to my wife, "where my girls grew up and where all their friends are", and will have to start over somewhere else.

Honestly though, she can be really sweet and caring when her evil twin isn't present, and despite being very miserable at times, she still does have my heart. I have come very close to just calling it quits, I've even made an appointment with a divorce attorney, but then canceled because she turns on the sweet side. I know it's foolish. Deep down I am miserable. Her daughters, the constant cheating allegations, the suspicion, the controlling behavior, but taking that next step is a big one!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

First of all, her lying to you for money was unacceptable.



FlyBoyJ said:


> I am not responsible for housing, supporting or taking care of grown able adults.


I agree with this.



FlyBoyJ said:


> In her world, "this is my girls house and they are welcome anytime and free to help themselves to anything they want, FOREVER."


I also agree with this.



FlyBoyJ said:


> They are guests in OUR (mine and my wife's) home


I don't agree with this.



FlyBoyJ said:


> and they really should be paying rent in addition to paying for their own living expenses.


I do agree with this.



FlyBoyJ said:


> Am I out of line??


Yes, but mostly no.

I don't agree that your wife's kids are guests in her home. Some people, and I am one of them, enjoy keeping their door open and their children are welcome any time and are welcome to anything they want in my cupboard or fridge. I enjoy the idea of maintaining a close family relationship with my daughter and grandchildren. They leave home (their house) and come home (my house) as far as I'm concerned. I don't condone the belief that a person's own children are guests in their parents' house. And I recall going home any time I wanted to the house I grew up in where my mom still lived. 

Another thing is that you compared yourself, a guy, to her daughters, but that doesn't work for some people. Lots of folks want their girls to stay home until marriage. For them, marriage represents security, so they'd rather have girls safe at home than out on their own.

However, I agree with you on the other part of the issue. My example is regarding my adult daughter who doesn't live with me. I would (and did) allow her to live with me rent-free as long as she needed to so long as she was working toward her independence, which she was. I went back home as a young adult and worked to get back on my feet and move out.

That's not what your wife's daughters are doing. They just seem to feel it's their permanent home, so they should be paying rent and maintaining themselves. I agree with you that she should not allow them to freeload like this.

But, I don't think you should be arguing with her because it's too easy to solve. Since you and she disagree about it, then what you have to do is determine what you will and will not tolerate. I don't see that divorce is necessary, but if you're not willing to do anything but argue and be mad about it, then you might as well just shut up. If you're not willing to tolerate it, then move out. Tell your wife you're not trying to separate or divorce, that you are hoping to remain married if that is what she wants, and she is welcome to visit you any time. However, you are no longer going to live in this house paying the bills and supporting unproductive adults. If she wants to support her girls, she is welcome to do so on her own but you will not be used for their purpose.

Who knows, she just might like it since her daughters seem more important to her than you, so maybe she will start working full time to maintain the household finances. Or, maybe she'll finally see the light and make them get jobs to help her out.

I think they should be important to her, but certainly not to the point of using her husband for their sakes. Perhaps she'll see the light and make them straighten up. If so, then that's the time for the two of you to sit down and work out 
a plan for them to pay x amount of rent and contribute x amount to the grocery bill. 

If the only thing you will accept is that they prepare to move out, then I don't think that demand will go over very well with your wife, so you might want to get used to the divorce idea. I think a compromise like my suggestion would be a better idea in order to save your marriage.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

FlyBoyJ said:


> My wife and I have VERY different opinions on parenting. I have one daughter (13) from my first marriage, she has two daughters (24 and 20) from her first. My daughter lives with her mom, my ex. My wife (married 2 years, together 8 total) had full custody when her daughters were kids.
> 
> My view of parenting is I guess what you would say was a more traditional one. I was raised by my mom and my dad, and when I turned 18, I became independent. I went away to college and graciously, my parents paid my tuition, books and room and board. I was told in no uncertain terms that the college funding would only be for four years, so I better work hard and get my degree. I did just that, graduating in 3 1/2 years. While at college, I worked and paid for everything else, gas, car, beer, pizza, fun, etc. When I graduated, I moved back to my parents house for just a month or so, immediately got a full time career path job, 100% financially supported myself (car, insurance, food, etc, etc) and then got a roommate and an apartment. I never relied on my parents for anything from that point on.
> 
> ...


To quote what a psychologist friend of mine once said about a woman coddling her adult children: "she needs to knock them off the tit!"

Further, from the time a child is capable they should be helping to lessen the workload instead of increase it.

I was ways told you don't work you don't eat. You got 2 good legs and arms so use them to help out.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

OP:

Here's a few links that may get you thinking:


https://time.com/5586397/loving-your-spouse/

https://nypost.com/2016/06/12/love-your-spouse-more-than-your-kids/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/who-do-you-love-more-your_b_10717762

In the end, you are not wrong; your WIFE is the one who is wrong. 

If she cannot change her basic priorities (which most people can't at the point in their lives at which your wife is), then I think you are doomed to either an unhappy, miserable marriage or a divorce. Pick which one you prefer, because I think it's really unavoidable. 

Did she tell you that you were the one she wanted to grow old with? Or did she tell you that her DAUGHTERS were the ones she wanted to grow old with, and have you foot the bill? Because she's doing the latter.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Cut off the money flow. Pay for the basics and nothing else. Only pay for what you use. 
When your wife is paying for her own car etc she made see these leeches for what they are. But I doubt it. 
You are an atm to your wife and her daughters, if the atm runs out of cash she won’t have any use for it.


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

FlyBoyJ said:


> The 20 year old in addition to being perhaps the stupidest person on the face of the earth, is also the laziest!


Your wife was wrong to lie but this quote concerns me. It sounds like, in addition to the financial support, there is some tension between you and her daughters. Some of her reaction may be the Momma Bear coming out to protect her young. When you try to talk to your wife, you will not get far if you start insulting her children.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

20yr said:


> Your wife was wrong to lie but this quote concerns me. It sounds like, in addition to the financial support, there is some tension between you and her daughters. Some of her reaction may be the Momma Bear coming out to protect her young. When you try to talk to your wife, you will not get far if you start insulting her children.


This. And 8 years together 2 married, considering the ages of all those involved, there's some level of "this is a package deal you knew about going in" so you can't feel sorry for yourself now. 

Boundaries are clearly being crossed. Maybe some by you as well given the above. Tell her with words and actions which boundaries are deal breakers for you. But also, you are going to have to come to terms with how she parents. Not to mention a level of feeling like you're being taken advantage of that you can live with, because that's part of the package deal you signed up for.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Is it foolish? You decide. 

You serve a financial purpose and she's going to do whatever it takes to make sure that continues. You are unfortunately married to a user and you either accept it or you get out but don't expect her to ever change because she won't. Yes, if you divorce her you will likely hear "I told you so" from friends and family who saw through her long before you did but that's not a good reason to stay. She won't make it easy for you to leave because she doesn't want to see your money go away so prepare yourself if you take that step. Time is going to continue moving along one way or the other.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How many threads are you going to start on this before you do something about it?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> The 20 year old in addition to being perhaps the stupidest person on the face of the earth, is also the laziest!


I have read no other replies. The above quote was enough for me.

I would divorce you. The end.

Yeah, she's babying them and the financial stuff is a problem. But if my husband felt this way about my kids, his butt would be out of my life, and I'd be glad to be rid of him.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

True Story:

30+ years ago in a genuine country store a group of men gathered around a wood stove.

A new father proclaimed ... “My most important job as a man is to raise children”. A grizzled old man corrected him ... “No, you’re job as a man is to raise adults”.

I witnessed this exchange myself and it stuck with me.

Unfortunately OP, your W raised children. Looks to me like your options are to stay miserable, man up and cut off the “children”, or remove yourself from the dysfunction.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Do you know what life she envisions for these girls into the future?

Does she expect to keep looking after them as though they are children until they get married, and then they will become their husband's problems?

Does she expect them to never work and support themselves at all? Is that what she wishes she had been able to do herself so it's a case of providing them with what she didn't have?

What is your wife's plan for these girls if something happens to her?

How does your wife expect them to be good wives themselves if they don't develop good housework habits or know how to cook?

These are all questions you should ask her if you don't know the answers already, or if your wife has never thought about them.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

My wife's sister is pushing 60 and she's still mooching off of her parents, who don't have a lot (and she's incredibly stupid - she's done some really dumb stuff and blames others when it goes wrong). Point being that in some cases it doesn't end even when the child gets near senior citizen age.


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

My brother considered our mother his personal ATM well into his 60's; I finally told him that if he wrote one.more.check on her account (he was on her account long before I realized what was happening and got on it myself in order to monitor what was going on), I would prosecute him for Elder Abuse. He was terrified of me, and that stopped him cold. He would call me every so often and tell me he "needed to come get some money from Mom" and I would shut him down again. He was later diagnosed with Alzheimer's and died last year at the age of 70. His wife was furious because there wasn't a lot of money coming their way after Mom's death until his daughter sat her down and told her the facts of life.

Mom's outlook was that she had enough, and I had enough, so he should have enough too. The two of us put together didn't spend as much money as he did, and nobody knows where it went. We don't know when the Alzheimer's started.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

FlyBoyJ said:


> My wife seems to think that her "job" as a parent is to financially support and do everything for her offspring in perpetuity. I, on the other hand believe, as I think normal parents do that it's time for her daughters to support themselves. She claims, "all parents support their kids well into their 20s and 30s around here". I said, "well, not me!" She views the parenting in this god awful spoiled rich entitled community we live in (I moved here for the wife) as "normal", while I view decades old parenting techniques like forcing your kids to grow up and support themselves when they become adults.
> Am I out of line??


My wife feels the same way. Won’t let me toss out our 35 year old son who refuses to grow up and move out. At least he is self supporting and has a reasonably good job, but he’s been destroyed at this point, he will never be truly self sufficient.


FlyBoyJ said:


> I know divorce is a solution, but my wife, despite alot of problematic traits, does still have my heart, so I hate to rush into divorce.


Divorce is not the answer. Your money/her money is the answer. Not a dime of your money goes to them. You have the added burden of being a step parent which is something that can be thrown at you. I don’t have that issue, but I get the “unfeeling” horse**** thrown at me. “I can never abandon my children”.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I would challenge your wife to prove her parenting choice is affective. Tell her to find any books or professional, any counselor or life coach that supports her. Maybe as she researches to prove you wrong she will realize she is crippling her kids growth, in truth she is being a sub par parent. 

I always say one of the most important things we need to teach our kids is how to be resourceful. A little suffering is good for them.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

I guess it's up to you, when it ends. But yes if the kids are working and going to school then by all means it's acceptable. I came home after college and worked a few crappy jobs before I found the right one.. I finally moved out at 27. I know this situation is different BUT you and wify will have to set some ground rules otherwise this will go on and on and on. They both need fulilll-time jobs and start paying for their own gas at least. My son is 16 and working. He pays for his own gas and has his own spending $$$. He is also saving for other things. Once in awhile I will give him a 20. ha But seriously I think it's our job as parents to try and raise responsible kids. My friend has a 20-yr and he still expects mom & dad to cover him. I told her he will never leave home.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

The worst thing a parent can do is continually bail out their kids. I learned the hard way with my youngest. He is 30 and we have to keep feeding him money. He has 3 children by 3 different women he has to pay child support on. He is interviewing on a job today that pays $5 an hour less than what he is making now. My wife and I decided to let him hit rock bottom. If he goes to jail for lack of child support so be it. He was warned.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Thound said:


> The worst thing a parent can do is continually bail out their kids. I learned the hard way with my youngest. He is 30 and we have to keep feeding him money. He has 3 children by 3 different women he has to pay child support on. He is interviewing on a job today that pays $5 an hour less than what he is making now. My wife and I decided to let him hit rock bottom. If he goes to jail for lack of child support so be it. He was warned.


Have you thought about buying him a vasectomy?


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

It won’t get better until wife sees that she in enabling her kids. My daughter lived with me while she went to college. She worked almost a full time job, paid for her car/insurance, gas. I actually would pay for one tank of gas a month. All of her college was paid for in full. She was expected to help around the house the best she could because she had a load on her shoulders. She only lived with me a year after she got her degree. 

However, my home will always be her home. If she needs me I will be there for her. I know she won’t take advantage of me because I raised her properly.

Maybe MC would help?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Why is your wife in control of all of the money?

Do you feel like you enabling her to have free rein?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Have you thought about buying him a vasectomy?


Actually I did. Best $1000 I ever spent, but it was too little too late for the last one.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

OP,

I think you're in the right here, but you need to not use your experience as a frame of reference. However you like to spin it, you were not independent until you were 22 years old. You had (apparently) a high amount of academic ability. Also, you had parents that footed the bill for four years. Living away from home does not equal independence.

Your step-daughters don't have someone to pay those bills for them. At a Cal State school, tuition, books and fees, room and board is $25,000 per year. That is our lower-tier university system, sharing a dorm room - and you still need somewhere to go 4 months of the year (winter and summer breaks). Unless you made $200k available to them for schooling and room and board, expecting them to be out at 18 just because you were is unreasonable.

They clearly should be contributing somehow - doing chores, paying some personal expenses, and so on. But, graduating in six years in reasonable if she had to work to pay expenses and wasn't just partying away. The younger one is still only 20 and would only be halfway through college even if she attacked it the way you did.

I honestly get the feeling that, on top of their lack of achievement, you might just not like them that much and/or resent still having them at home.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Have you thought about buying him a vasectomy?


Oh I forgot to mention that $1000 also paid for 2 lab visits to make sure the surgery was successful. The little **** never went to make sure he was shooting blanks. You just can't fix stupid.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Easy, It ends when you make it end


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## wxman3441 (Aug 30, 2012)

I went through a similar situation. Is your name on the mortgage? If so, eject them now! Tell your wife you will NOT tolerate this any longer. I dealt with this for 2 years and told my partner if it happens again its a deal-breaker.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

FlyBoyJ said:


> I think it's fear of another divorce, fear of having my family and friends say "I told you so" because I probably wasn't smart rushing into a relationship with my now wife so soon after my first divorce. I see it now as my now wife was simply looking for a "sugar daddy" to support her spawn. I also fear the fact that I have now built my business back up in this town, which I hate by the way and only moved here because this is, according to my wife, "where my girls grew up and where all their friends are", and will have to start over somewhere else.
> 
> Honestly though, she can be really sweet and caring when her evil twin isn't present, and despite being very miserable at times, she still does have my heart. I have come very close to just calling it quits, I've even made an appointment with a divorce attorney, but then canceled because she turns on the sweet side. I know it's foolish. Deep down I am miserable. Her daughters, the constant cheating allegations, the suspicion, the controlling behavior, but taking that next step is a big one!


She is playing you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I believe in open doors for family. I have three kids myself. My daughter got married last summer, she lived with us up until then. The difference was this. She had a full time job at the time and going to school full time. Your wife’s daughters are are doing nothing to support themselves. 

My two boys are at home still. One is starting his third year of college and works 6 am til noon m - f. He pays for his car, motorcycle, and bike. He buys his own fuel and cloths. He pays for half of his auto insurance. He is saving money for when he does move out. He does household chores, he changes the oil on our vehicles when needed. 

My youngest started his senior year of hs this week. He worked full time over the summer. He has 2k saved up for a down payment for his first vehicle. He pays for fuel and keeps up with the maintenance of the vehicle he is using(2004 Accord all three uses as their first). He also does household chores and helps with the yard work (we have around 4 acres to mow and a garden that needs weeding). He also washes and helps with the maintenance of the vehicles. 

What your wife is doing to her daughters is ruining their lives by not forcing them to be self reliant. They have no means of standing on their own. 

My daughter came over to visit this past weekend and went out and mowed for an hour. She said she missed it. Her and her husband live in a apartment for now, looking for their first home.


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