# It starts today, and I feel like hell



## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

I want to cry, but I can't. My eyes are wide open and I can't sleep. I want to cry, but there's something stopping me. If I could just let out the emotions I have I think I'd feel better...I don't know what's wrong.

*HOW I FEEL*

I posted here last year concerning my relationship. I figured I was a paycheck, babysitter and roommate. 

Paycheck because I make about 3 or 4 times her salary which allows us to live where we live.

Babysitter because I took care of her mother most of the time when it came to bringing her to the hospital etc. But she passed away in May.

Roommate because we have no sex, no conversations of any meaning. If there's a 'date' it's because I asked if she wanted to join me to watch a movie, not really asking her out but just in case she wanted to see it to and I wouldn't be in trouble...kinda.

*WHAT I DID*

Every 3 months I would bring up our relationship and our problems. Conversations would turn to arguing and we'd get nowhere. Long story short: no sex, no conversation, no romance, no real emotions. I thought, after a year of no sex, that she would think something is wrong. I was wrong. I thought that bringing up the fact she had longer conversations on the telephone with her co-workers in one sitting than we would have in an entire month not right, but that didn't seem to matter. In her mind 'We're an old couple. That's what happens.'


*THE DIVORCE*

Yesterday, after much consideration, after a year of trying to become a better version of myself, taking action around the house, working hard etc. (Really I started to become a better version of myself from 5 years ago when I caught her cheating) I asked my wife if she wanted a divorce, that our marriage was broken, that it seemed like she didn't care etc.

Her answer was "I don't know." Which to me sounds like "Yes, but I'm afraid to say so because it will hurt you more." Am I right on thinking that? 

This left things in limbo, and I was tired of being put in limbo, we've been in limbo for years now. So, I went off. I said "You've just answered yes without saying yes." AND I was EMOTIONAL in how I spoke. 

She attempted to calm me down and said she 'didn't say she wanted a divorce' or that she didn't say 'I don't want to fix things.' BUT she did say 'I can't have sex'. One of my biggest reasons for being unhappy.

Her reason for not having sex is because she feels like she's 'not a woman'. She was pregnant a few years back but lost the baby. It was emotional for both of us. Since then she decided that since she could no longer have children (Not easily anyways, she's 45) that she was no longer a woman. She said nobody would understand her and that counseling was a waste.

I walked out of the house and when I came home I went to bed. I couldn't think or feel anything. I was drained.

*WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW*

We are going to talk tonight after work. I've got the papers and signed them. All she has to do is sign and we need 2 witnesses to sign and then it's done.

In the morning, I saw an email like conversation between her and a co-worker talking about us. When I left last night, she contacted her co-worker and the discussion went pretty much like this "You're right, he's wrong. You've wanted a divorce haven't you" "Yeah, kind of. I guess so. He won't forgive me. I feel sad."

Obviously there was more to it than that but this is where I first find out she's thought about divorce, even though somewhere in my mind I figured it was in hers as well. The fact that she would be so open about us to someone else but never so much so to me, shocked me. I made myself available to her (Last night being the exception).

What I want is for my wife to want me. What I want is for my wife to see me as she once did. What I want I don't think I can have. A part of me is holding on, hoping she comes home and says 'let's work things out' but then the other part of me says 'if you don't get out now your in for X more months/years of disappointment.

My first question though is, why can't I cry!? I need to cry...

Second is, what do I do about us when us no longer exists? I can't be friends, I can't forgive, I can't stay in touch or be around people that would remind me of her. I don't see myself moving on (I'm 36, young by some standards but still) I can't see a future without her, or at least the woman I married.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

{{{{HUGS}}}}

You are in a lousy situation, clearly. 

You cannot cry right now because there is a part of you that is buffering the level of pain.. it's like you are in emotional shock.

There is a chance that she will finally see the light when she knows that your are serious about divorce. 

If not.. then of course you need to start moving on. It's hard. 

What you do is that you start interacting with her according to the 180 (see the link in my signature block below). The 180 is to help you separate emotionally and get stronger.

While you cannot see a future without her, you can do it. 

You are young. I'm 66. To me you are very young. In time you will be able to find someone who will love you more fully and who you can love.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It sounds like she had given up...just pretty much checked out of the marriage and stopped throwing her share of the fuel on the marital fire. And when you presented to her your needs, she doesn't seem to be at a place to try to meet them.

At the same time, as heartbroken as you are, it doesn't sound like you want to quit the marriage, but don't know what else to do.

Have you processed her infidelity together? Or is that still an unresolved matter?

The loss of the child....is that when she started checking out? Was the infidelity before or after?

Overall, whether because she truly does not care, or it being too painful to care, your wife has successfully stonewalled the marriage pretty much to death. 

Your wife truly needs therapy...probably a lot more than the marriage needs marriage counseling. As of now, it seems like your options are to either enact a trial separation (if she declares she wants to work on the marriages, get help, and go to therapy and marriage counseling) OR divorce.

However, the way you present the situation...it sounds like she really doesn't care what happens.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

The issue of infidelity is resolved. She still hasn't gained my trust 100 percent but I'd like to think we were getting there.

The infidelity happened before the miscarriage. After I caught her, I moved, she had the choice to move with me or continue down her new path. She chose to come with me. We relocated quite far from where we used to live.

2 years later, we decided to try for children. It turned out to be more difficult than expected. We went with IVF and the first few times it didn't happen. Then, 6 months in she was pregnant. 6 weeks later she lost the baby.

It was decided that we'd take a break from trying IVF. I wasn't going to push since she was the one who went through the physical pains, as well as the emotional. 6 months later, when it was planned we start again, she said "No, I don't want to have kids. I can't have kids." She had likely decided this after the miscarriage but did not want to have the conversation until I brought it up 6 months later, or maybe she thought I would forget altogether. This caused some serious pains for me as I wanted this to be a decision we both made. We had our arguments, I came to terms with the idea that we wouldn't have children. I hoped that perhaps through regular, fun, sex that God would bless us...but that sex was never to happen.

I care for her, I've only ever loved her. I'll be honest in saying that if I were to give someone in my position advice, I would say to get out and find someone else. I'm not listening to my own advice and I can't understand why.

I want her to want to stay and be with me in the way I imagine a healthy couple would be together. Sex, companionship, shared memories etc. I'm not unrealistic, I don't imagine life would be like the movies where everything will just be fine and without issues. I just want it to be somewhat close to normal.

If she comes home and says she wants to sign the papers and move on without me, then I'll accept that. I don't know how I will deal with it but the first thing I know I have to do is accept it. I won't be fighting for it anymore.

Today was my one day off a week. I spent it in bed. Normally I would've been to the gym, prepared my meals for the day, played some games, gone online for some fun and reading. I need to cry...


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Too_Bad said:


> I want to cry, but I can't. My eyes are wide open and I can't sleep. I want to cry, but there's something stopping me. If I could just let out the emotions I have I think I'd feel better...I don't know what's wrong.
> 
> *HOW I FEEL*
> 
> ...


You are soooo young!

You deserve to be with someone who gives you affection and physical intimacy. To me, that is one of the BEST PERKS of marriage, and if it's missing, then you'll feel a void inside you and it will affect your self esteem. If you've asked her for this, and she hasn't given it to you, and it's been years...I highly doubt it will change. And she cheated on you? Dude...you deserve so much better.

You WILL move on...everyone does. You're only 36. You don't have children (I'm assuming - because you never mentioned children) so, you don't have to maintain contact with her or stay friends or even see her again. If you do see her one day, I truly believe you will have reached a point in your personal growth/development from this experience that will cause you to feel almost nothing. Maybe a slight, "She was my wife...we had some good times, but I'm so glad I left when I did. My life is so much better now." 

I've been separated for 8 months and a lot of the time, I can't cry either. I've cried very rarely, usually in front of my family. My body manifested its pain in other ways - anxiety at first. That went away. You will cry when you are ready to mourn the end of your marriage, and ready to face the fear of a new beginning. That's when you will cry - you will pour your heart out, and that's good, because it's part of the grieving process. Your marriage is not dead yet. When those papers are signed and you two are no longer "us", then you will cry, LET IT OUT, feel the pain, and then you will be able to move forward.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Too_Bad said:


> I want her to want to stay and be with me in the way I imagine a healthy couple would be together. I'm not unrealistic, I don't imagine life would be like the movies where everything will just be fine and without issues. I just want it to be somewhat close to normal.


This.

"I want her to be with me IN THE WAY I IMAGINE a health couple would be..."

You're wishing she, and you two together, would be something other than what you are and what you've gotten all these years. You're imagining a reality and wishing for a reality that has not happened with her.

Sometimes we hurt ourselves so much by wishing away reality.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I hate you are in this situation. She definitely needs IC to find the root of

her problem. How long were you two together? Did she show remorse for

the affair? What was her childhood like, with parents, siblings?

Below are a few threads that will help you out a lot...

hang in there, most who post here have been where you are

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Just a thought, and obviously I'm not there, I only know what you've posted, but when I read her conversation with a co-worker my first thought was that he (or you) won't forgive her for the miscarriage. That would be consistent with her explanation for not having sex. Is it possible she is suffering depression after the miscarriage and infertility?
Obviously, knowing she was unfaithful before the miscarriage is different, but it might be something to explore. I had a miscarriage and it took me a good two years to bounce back.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I hate you are in this situation. She definitely needs IC to find the root of
> 
> her problem. How long were you two together? Did she show remorse for
> 
> ...


She was an only child. Her mother had her late in life so she was not exactly happy. Her mother was older than her friends' mothers and bossy. She has no siblings. Her father had a stroke when she was 18 and died shortly after we were married, which was about 18 years later. So, for 18 years he was a vegetable in a hospital bed. Her mother became sick and we took care of her for the last 8 years. The last 5 were especially hard. Crying and shouting most days. I was the referee.

*LAST NIGHTS TALK*

I got the papers, signed them and had them ready. Because I was emotional last night she never had the chance to talk. I decided to be calm and let her.

A lot of the conversation deviated into other areas such as work, and things that didn't seem to matter. She would talk about a co-worker who was having a hard time and why, and I would say "I understand, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you want a divorce." She would try to make it 'connect' but often failed to do so.

When it came to her miscarriage she said this "I know it's hard for you to understand, but this is how I feel, I feel like I'm not a woman anymore. I see you with children and I couldn't give you children. I know you say that we don't need children to be happy but I still feel useless. I know you're nice about it and you say we have to move on but I still feel guilty."

*FINANCES AND SEX*

Because of IVF we are in debt. Because of her mother's hospital bills, we are in debt. I should mention we don't live in a western country. I'm white and she's Asian. There is a little culture difference but she very modern having lived in the U.S for 2 years and in Europe. 

If divorced, I would be able to pay off most of my share within a year. I have no problem living cheap. She would have more of a problem. I understand that getting things under control would help. I've made those efforts. She's seen them and admits that there's more she could be doing.

I explained to her as best I could the importance of sex in a relationship. I told her that if I were to simply stop caring about other aspects of life that she found important, how it would affect us. I understand that a miscarriage can affect a woman in ways that only a woman can understand. It's been more than 2 years. At the end, she said "Can I please have another chance. I'll see a doctor about my health and why I feel this way physically and mentally." She outright refuses to take medicine though. She thinks that she'll be put on an SSRI or something and that will mess her up. We've both been there, and that I understand. However, if her hormones are shot, I would imagine that some kind of medication would be prescribed. I told her not to close the doors on anything before they're even open.

When she saw that I had the papers, she was somewhat speechless and unhappy. I don't think she thought I would have had them. Perhaps the idea of having to move, definitely into a smaller place, throwing away most of her stuff, readjusting to a single life, everything hit her at once.

She asked for a second chance, and for time. I told her I couldn't give her time but that she didn't have to sign anything yet. I don't even know what that means myself...I've essentially given her time but said no. It was the "I just need time to think." sentence that was used before her infidelity. I reminded her of that. 

She's on her period and I'm sure she's emotional in her own way. She needs to be thinking at 100 percent before making a decision either way. I don't want her to stay out of fear, or leave out of anger, when neither is what she would feel otherwise.

*BAD ME BAD LIE*

I was a bit of a bad boy in that I found messages between her and a female friend talking about our situation after I stormed out. From the conversation it seemed like she wasn't completely ruling out a divorce, that she wanted to at least make peace but that I wasn't able to because of the person I am. If it's over then it's over completely in my mind (True, I would have nothing more to do with her). She wondered if I would really get the papers.

She doesn't know I stumbled on these messages and I tried to get her to talk about it without revealing that I knew about them. She started off by saying she wasn't talking about us with anyone to, she was talking but that it was a counselor like
person. She never admitted that she brought up divorce. She lied, but those were private messages and I don't think I should've had access to them. I know I say stuff in private to close friends that I wouldn't want her to hear, just getting stuff off my chest. Maybe it's the same for her.

So, I'm sure tonight we will continue the conversation. I don't know how much farther we could've taken it or what I could've said. I told her that I would be especially angry if she was just waiting for 'the right time' to move out. That bills, money, relocating etc should not factor into her decision. That if she wants out, she should say so and face the consequences. If she wants to heal this relationship, then to go into the healing process 100 percent.

So, I'm still a mess


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I hate you are in this situation. She definitely needs IC to find the root of
> 
> her problem. How long were you two together? Did she show remorse for
> 
> ...


She was an only child. Her mother had her late in life so she was not exactly happy. Her mother was older than her friends' mothers and bossy. She has no siblings. Her father had a stroke when she was 18 and died shortly after we were married, which was about 18 years later. So, for 18 years he was a vegetable in a hospital bed. Her mother became sick and we took care of her for the last 8 years. The last 5 were especially hard. Crying and shouting most days. I was the referee.

*LAST NIGHTS TALK*

I got the papers, signed them and had them ready. Because I was emotional last night she never had the chance to talk. I decided to be calm and let her.

A lot of the conversation deviated into other areas such as work, and things that didn't seem to matter. She would talk about a co-worker who was having a hard time and why, and I would say "I understand, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you want a divorce." She would try to make it 'connect' but often failed to do so.

When it came to her miscarriage she said this "I know it's hard for you to understand, but this is how I feel, I feel like I'm not a woman anymore. I see you with children and I couldn't give you children. I know you say that we don't need children to be happy but I still feel useless. I know you're nice about it and you say we have to move on but I still feel guilty."

*FINANCES AND SEX*

Because of IVF we are in debt. Because of her mother's hospital bills, we are in debt. I should mention we don't live in a western country. I'm white and she's Asian. There is a little culture difference but she very modern having lived in the U.S for 2 years and in Europe. 

If divorced, I would be able to pay off most of my share within a year. I have no problem living cheap. She would have more of a problem. I understand that getting things under control would help. I've made those efforts. She's seen them and admits that there's more she could be doing.

I explained to her as best I could the importance of sex in a relationship. I told her that if I were to simply stop caring about other aspects of life that she found important, how it would affect us. I understand that a miscarriage can affect a woman in ways that only a woman can understand. It's been more than 2 years. At the end, she said "Can I please have another chance. I'll see a doctor about my health and why I feel this way physically and mentally." She outright refuses to take medicine though. She thinks that she'll be put on an SSRI or something and that will mess her up. We've both been there, and that I understand. However, if her hormones are shot, I would imagine that some kind of medication would be prescribed. I told her not to close the doors on anything before they're even open.

When she saw that I had the papers, she was somewhat speechless and unhappy. I don't think she thought I would have had them. Perhaps the idea of having to move, definitely into a smaller place, throwing away most of her stuff, readjusting to a single life, everything hit her at once.

She asked for a second chance, and for time. I told her I couldn't give her time but that she didn't have to sign anything yet. I don't even know what that means myself...I've essentially given her time but said no. It was the "I just need time to think." sentence that was used before her infidelity. I reminded her of that. 

She's on her period and I'm sure she's emotional in her own way. She needs to be thinking at 100 percent before making a decision either way. I don't want her to stay out of fear, or leave out of anger, when neither is what she would feel otherwise.

*BAD ME BAD LIE*

I was a bit of a bad boy in that I found messages between her and a female friend talking about our situation after I stormed out. From the conversation it seemed like she wasn't completely ruling out a divorce, that she wanted to at least make peace but that I wasn't able to because of the person I am. If it's over then it's over completely in my mind (True, I would have nothing more to do with her). She wondered if I would really get the papers.

She doesn't know I stumbled on these messages and I tried to get her to talk about it without revealing that I knew about them. She started off by saying she wasn't talking about us with anyone to, she was talking but that it was a counselor like
person. She never admitted that she brought up divorce. She lied, but those were private messages and I don't think I should've had access to them. I know I say stuff in private to close friends that I wouldn't want her to hear, just getting stuff off my chest. Maybe it's the same for her.

So, I'm sure tonight we will continue the conversation. I don't know how much farther we could've taken it or what I could've said. I told her that I would be especially angry if she was just waiting for 'the right time' to move out. That bills, money, relocating etc should not factor into her decision. That if she wants out, she should say so and face the consequences. If she wants to heal this relationship, then to go into the healing process 100 percent.

So, I'm still a mess


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

I don't know why it wasn't posted before. I think a mod needs to read it first. I'll shorten things a bit because I can't remember what it is exactly I typed.

*MY WIFES CHILDHOOD*

She had it rough. We live in an Asian country where women were expected to have kids from their early 20's. Her mother had her in her late 30's. Her mother was a very selfish and aggressive type so she didn't really get along with the other mothers who were much younger. She is an only child.

Her father was a nice person but when my wife was 18 he had a stroke and was a vegetable for the rest of his life, which was another 18 years. 

The last 8 years or so, especially these last 5 years, we've taken care of her mother. I was always the referee trying to break things up. Eventually the disease that her mother suffered from took over completely and it was no longer her real emotions controlling the situation but the disease. My wife couldn't see it that way, no matter how much I talked with her about it. Her mother died last May. The mourning period wasn't that long. I believe we went through a lot of that while she was still alive.

She has no other family.

She is a modern woman, she lived in the U.S for 2 years and in Europe for a couple more. Her English is perfect and that's how we communicate even though I speak her native language as well.

*LAST NIGHT*

I remained calm and let her talk. The conversation often deviated from divorce into stuff that had nothing to do with our current situation. I would tell her as nicely as I could that it had nothing to do with our situation and she would attempt to attach some sort of connection, but that would always fail. Her go to phrase was "Maybe you don't understand, but it's true."

I made my feelings clear. Not only that sex was necessary but why it was necessary. I thought if I could show her what she was missing out on that maybe something would click.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

*LAST NIGHT* continued....

At one point she said she would see a doctor about things. At one point I was struggling to remain composed so I left the room. She followed and I think she saw that I was struggling. She asked "Can I have a second chance. I'll see a doctor." I told her I was fine and that I agreed she should see a doctor.

She outright refuses to take medicine. I don't know that that is what the doctors will do. I think she thinks she'll be put on an SSRI or something and that isn't something she wants. We've both had experiences with that and it wasn't good. However, if her hormones are shot in someway, I imagine they'll give her some sort of medication. I told her not to close any doors before they're open.

*BAD BOY BAD LIE*

I found messages between her and her friend, someone she decided to talk with after I stormed out of the house the night before. These were private messages so I figured that I was bad for spying, but once I saw it was about us, I figured this was a peak into how she really feels. The person giving her advice is apparently a 'counselor' that runs her own blog. Not a proper one. She tried to get answers out of my wife as to what she wanted. My wife said she wanted to at least make peace between us. That I was now at capacity, mentally, and unable to think of peace, which was and is true. She didn't outright say she wanted a divorce but didn't say she didn't.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

*BAD BOY BAD LIE* continued

Her final message was "He says he's going to get the divorce papers. I wonder if he really will (Smily face)" 

EDIT: I tried to bring this up in the conversation. I didn't tell her I saw the messages, but I asked her if she had talked with someone. She said "No." I called her bluff saying that I knew the type of person she was and that she was definitely in communication with someone. She then admitted to that but said it was not about divorce, which was a lie. She said it was just her getting advice and that no talk about divorce came up, which was a lie. Now, those were her private communications so I feel bad that I saw them. I know that I sometimes go off about my wife with someone I trust and say things I wouldn't want her to hear. Perhaps that was the same. BUT that puts our trust in more jeopardy. 

*FINALLY*

Her conversation in short "I feel bad for you. I wanted you to have kids and I couldn't give you any. I see you around kids and see that if you had someone younger and healthier that you could have kids. I know you say that kids aren't what makes us a couple, but I still feel bad and guilty." We also have debt from IVF treatment. "All I can think of is paying back the money. I'm so focused on that I can't focus on anything else. I know that sounds bad for you but it's how I feel." And when I asked if she wanted a divorce I got "I don't know. I need time. I'm on my period now and tired from work and emotional."

I told her I couldn't give her more time because I've given her years. Her miscarriage was more than 2 years ago. There was no pressure from me to continue trying. I just wanted to heal and move on. When she asks for time it sounds more like "I need time to figure out a good exit strategy because if you leave now, I'm screwed." I told her that and also that if in a week or 2 she says she's out and found an apartment etc that the pain on my end would be multiplied by far more than it already is. I don't believe she would deliberately try to hurt me in that way, but trust isn't at 100 percent.

I put the papers in front of her. She was more than surprised that I had gone to get them and signed everything on my side. She was somewhat speechless. I told her she didn't have time but that she didn't have to sign now. I don't want her signing in anger and then later regretting it or the other way around, signing to not be alone then feeling like she should've signed it.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

*WHAT TO DO NOW?*

She asked for a second chance. Whether she's actually going to see a doctor or not, whether she wants us to heal or not, whether this is just a way to stall things or not, I don't know. She said "I'm being totally honest when I say I don't know." 

If I were to give advice to me, I would say "Get her to sign, move on, you'll find someone new." But I'm in the thick of it and can't see past the next few hours. I keep wondering what I can do in order to win her back OR if there's something she's really going through right now that I don't understand and need to support her more, which would lead to a happier HEALED marriage.

Today I was back at the gym, I was focused on myself. I don't know how I'm going to handle work tomorrow. I wish I could remove myself from this more easily. I wish that the love I had for her could be broken. All the ex girlfriends I broke up with, those were easy. There was no love, just lust. I never really hurt anyone, at least not that I know of. But we've been together for almost 14 years and married for almost 10.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Connect the dots with her childhood and her current behavior

when times get stressful to her she regresses back to right before her dad

had a stroke and / or her childhood conflicts with her mother.

We are alike in the fact, you want to utilize every avenue possible

before closing the door. This way if you have to walk away, you can with 

no regrets.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ugh. It's pretty clear that your wife wants out of this marriage, even if she won't just come out and say it. So put that final nail in the coffin and file already. Additionally, you should probably give yourself at least a year or so before you move into any _serious_ dating.

Oh... once you've remarried and your new wife has given birth to your first child, maybe send your STBX one of the birth announcement cards.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Did your wife have any kind of counseling after the miscarriage? How did you react to it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Ugh. It's pretty clear that your wife wants out of this marriage, even if she won't just come out and say it. So put that final nail in the coffin and file already. Additionally, you should probably give yourself at least a year or so before you move into any _serious_ dating.
> 
> Oh... once you've remarried and your new wife has given birth to your first child, maybe send your STBX one of the birth announcement cards.


Really Gus? I agree he should probably move on but that last suggestion is just downright mean and nasty. It's like divorcing your hb who had ED for medical reasons and then sending him a note about the big hard penis on your new hb. Not necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Both of you have been through a lot. I don't think your marriage can survive in this state. Infidelity is already such a difficult issue to resolve and then a miscarriage on top of that?

She's not in the marriage and you hoping that she changes will just put you into limbo and a lot of pain. She doesn't even want to talk to you about your marriage. Follow through with the divorce and let her go. You are a young man.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

She wants out of the marriage but she maybe doesn't know why. So that's conflicting and scary. So it's a bad situation for both of you but I think you've been in limbo long enough that if things were going to change then it would have happened over this last year during one of those heart to heart talks you said you've had every few months.

It seems like the writing is on the wall and you don't have many options. But it's okay to feel bad for yourself and for her as well. And once the difficult and scary choices are made and finalized then trust me that emotional block that you have will drop and crying won't be a problem.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Did your wife have any kind of counseling after the miscarriage? How did you react to it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She got no counseling. She was sad and we took a day trip to a shrine where you pay your respects to the young who die. I was there for her, but I didn't poor out my own feelings because they would've burdened her. I felt as though it was up to me to carry her through this before I could mourn. I mourned on my own.

I'm grasping for hope. I know I would not encourage my friends to do what I am currently doing. Letting go would bring pain quicker but also healing more quickly and moving on. I fear that step.

Today I tried to imagine a day without her, how I would go about my daily routine, what I would do, how I would interact with her if we met by chance. I was on a high, I felt good, it seemed like I could walk into a room and say 'sign here' and be done with it. Then I came home, started preparing my meals for tomorrow, and it slowly crept inside that I won't have her in my life and it hurt. So it's taking a mental toll on me. I'm sure it will be easy once out, but it's getting out that's hard.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You love her, not a damn thing wrong with that

try all avenues, if to no avail, walk away with head held high

been there, not fun


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Too_Bad said:


> She got no counseling. She was sad and we took a day trip to a shrine where you pay your respects to the young who die. I was there for her, but I didn't poor out my own feelings because they would've burdened her. I felt as though it was up to me to carry her through this before I could mourn. I mourned on my own.
> 
> I'm grasping for hope. I know I would not encourage my friends to do what I am currently doing. Letting go would bring pain quicker but also healing more quickly and moving on. I fear that step.
> 
> Today I tried to imagine a day without her, how I would go about my daily routine, what I would do, how I would interact with her if we met by chance. I was on a high, I felt good, it seemed like I could walk into a room and say 'sign here' and be done with it. Then I came home, started preparing my meals for tomorrow, and it slowly crept inside that I won't have her in my life and it hurt. So it's taking a mental toll on me. I'm sure it will be easy once out, but it's getting out that's hard.



Maybe she needs it. The loss of a baby is devastating for women, especially if she doesn't have other children. Throw in your culture where being a mother is prized above all else and it's extra devastating. She feels like she failed you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Ugh. It's pretty clear that your wife wants out of this marriage, even if she won't just come out and say it. So put that final nail in the coffin and file already. Additionally, you should probably give yourself at least a year or so before you move into any _serious_ dating.
> 
> Oh... once you've remarried and your new wife has given birth to your first child, maybe send your STBX one of the birth announcement cards.


Gus, I respect and appreciate your postings, however this is surprising coming from you, someone who has posted personal input regarding IVF. A woman's self loathing because she has failed to produce offspring (provided it was of importance to her) goes to depths many here will never understand, regardless of her other inexcusable behavior. I look at the two things as wholly separate. We are shades of gray. I thought your experience would bring more sensitivity. (I apologize for any TJ.)


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Really Gus? I agree he should probably move on but that last suggestion is just downright mean and nasty. It's like divorcing your hb who had ED for medical reasons and then sending him a note about the big hard penis on your new hb. Not necessary.


First off, that's hilarious. Seriously.

Second, it's not quite the same in that -- insofar as I'm currently aware -- there is currently no social convention concerning mass notification regarding a new partner's endowment, sexual prowess, etc. People send birth notification cards all the time. 

Third, come on... it was (mostly) a joke. And, in retrospect, it was clearly a bad joke, made in poor taste, etc. My actual, honest advice to OP would be to file, cut the cord, and move on. No bile necessary. Quick. Clean. Done.

Fourth, if OP were a woman whose husband had shown a similar degree of disrespect for her throughout the course of their marriage (read OP's other thread), I might have made a similar joke. In fact, it might have been in the same vein (LOL) as your comment above... which is still hilarious, by the way.



Satya said:


> Gus, I respect and appreciate your postings, however this is surprising coming from you, someone who has posted personal input regarding IVF. A woman's self loathing because she has failed to produce offspring (provided it was of importance to her) goes to depths many here will never understand, regardless of her other inexcusable behavior. I look at the two things as wholly separate. We are shades of gray. I thought your experience would bring more sensitivity. (I apologize for any TJ.)


I understand. Seriously, I do. And, honestly, I did stop and sort of question the joke before posting it. I made a similar joke in BFF's thread months ago, and it seemed to go over pretty well, which is to say that I don't really recall any outcry over it.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

ONE MORE STEP

Last night I attempted to start a conversation to continue about us. Before the conversation could get started she said 'I'm really tired and I have to be up in 5 hours to work the weekend shift.' I could see she was tired so I told her 'If your priority is work then take care of that.' She knew I was unhappy with things and she started to complain about work, money, how she can't make me happy, guilt etc. I stayed calm, told her she should do whats best for her, I stayed strong and confident on the outside but weak on the inside. She took that strong confidence as a sign of 'you think you're always right and I'm always wrong.' 

After her bath she asked if she could sleep in bed with me. Not cuddling, just sleeping. I had moved her blankets and pillows to the living room a few days ago. I said OK

And that's how things ended last night.

Part of me thinks I'm trying to resolve things while she's tired and overworked. Part of me thinks she should put that work on hold to a certain degree in order to begin the healing process.

As for the culture, while it was a 'must have children young' it's not so much anymore. Many woman are waiting to have children until later in life OR not at all and focusing on a career. She doesn't like her work and fears being pushed out eventually. It doesn't matter that we could manage on my salary with some lifestyle changes.

I wish she would say 'I want out.' That would be painful but it would start the process. Or, more so, I wish she would say and show that she wants to heal. That she definitely doesn't want out. I feel like she needs to take the first step but I know I probably have to, but I wish I knew why she won't.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She chose a full night's sleep over working on a M. What does that tell you?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> She chose a full night's sleep over working on a M. What does that tell you?


It tells me she needed a nights sleep. I can't think well enough to deal with many things if I'm sleep deprived.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Last night I was in bed listening to music just thinking things out. She walked in and asked 'Is everything OK? I know you want to talk but I'm uo in 4 hours for work. I'm worried about you' I'm not sure my reaction was good or not. I plugged my earbuds back in and said 'Do whatever your properties are.' She wasn't sure how to take it. She knows what she can do but she doesn't.

I think visualizing the next steps before actually taking them are making a transition easier, still hard, but easier.


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## vpwhite2770 (Jul 26, 2013)

Get out and find someone new you can be happy with while you still can!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Too_Bad said:


> Last night I was in bed listening to music just thinking things out. She walked in and asked 'Is everything OK? I know you want to talk but I'm uo in 4 hours for work. I'm worried about you' I'm not sure my reaction was good or not. I plugged my earbuds back in and said 'Do whatever your properties are.' She wasn't sure how to take it. She knows what she can do but she doesn't.
> 
> I think visualizing the next steps before actually taking them are making a transition easier, still hard, but easier.


Let's take a look...

She has an affair...does absolutely nothing to fix herself, fix you, or fix the marriage. Nothing. 

Then in an attempt to do her duty to you and fulfill her cultural obligations, she decided to try to have a baby. That failed. So what did she do to help you and herself get over that? Nothing. 

Here's the deal as I see it. I don't know what kind of water buffalo farming society your wife came from, but it is clear that you are 100 years ahead of her on the social evolution scale. She is clueless as to how she can help herself be a real wife to you, and what is worse she is stubborn. She thinks all she has to do is follow you around and apologize for her bad behavior and everything will be alright. 

Here is what you need to do. Cry your inner tears, know that you did everything you could to save your marriage. Divorce her, let her fall into the real world and learn to take care of herself. You? You keep on making yourself into a better you and find yourself a woman who was born in the 20th century...a woman who is culturally and emotionally your equal. Father babies and be happy.


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