# I need some advice



## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Hi. I'm new here and I think I posted this thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/self-help-marriage-relationship-programs/52474-not-sure-whats-next.html) in the wrong place.

I'm at my wits end about what to do in my marriage and could really use some viewpoints. 

I don't want to copy and paste all of that here, but would really appreciate it if someone would have a read and let me know your thoughts. Posting in here is fine since it looks like this is where most people hang out.

Thank you in advance for your help.


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## alton (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm guessing he thinks you're not sorry about doing what you do, you're just sorry you upset him. You need to show him you mean it by not doing it again. Depending on how anal he's being about it though, that could be quite tough. If so then try and make him understand it's tough but you're genuinely sorry. If not then you need to try a bit harder to not do it.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> This weekend, I made mistake #1 again, for probably the umpteenth time. In my opinion, it wasn't like I was making him appear like a big idiot, but he was wrong about a certain point and I tried to respectfully disagree. Apparently, he didn't like that. When I realized he was angry, I tried to apologize but he didn't want to hear a word I had to say. In the past, I've been told that my apologies no longer mean anything because I've been making the same mistakes for the past 12 years. So obviously, those apologies must not be sincere. I need to DO something to back up those words. But, I can't do the SAME things (nice dinner, sexy shower, parading around in lingerie, etc.) because they aren't enough. AND if I come up with new things (cooking together, going for walks together) I'm being hypocritical because we should've been doing those things anyway.


I'm not sure what you mean about the disagreeing thing. Does he object if your opinion on a topic differs from his and you express it? Belittling his opinion in company would, of course, be disrespectful and rude, but it's quite another matter respectfully expressing a differing opinion during the course of a conversation.

Regarding the other issues, it sounds like he's carrying a lot of resentment for things that didn't happen in the past which you are now trying to change in the present. What is _he_ doing to facilitate the necessary changes in the relationship, or does he perceive all the faults to be yours? It's very difficult to effect positive changes in a relationship if one party is forever dragging up the past...


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

alton said:


> I'm guessing he thinks you're not sorry about doing what you do, you're just sorry you upset him. You need to show him you mean it by not doing it again. Depending on how anal he's being about it though, that could be quite tough. If so then try and make him understand it's tough but you're genuinely sorry. If not then you need to try a bit harder to not do it.


Hi alton,

Part of your comment is the same thing he has said...that I'm just sorry that I upset him. While that's partly true, I am always genuinely sorry when I make the same mistake, especially when I'm trying my hardest not to.

What bothers me is that, when I've pointed out things to him that he's been doing and have let him know that those things still haven't changed, he behaves as if I have no right to expect him to keep up his side of things because I keep making mistakes. To me, that seems lime he's intentionally not doing his part, as if to show me a lesson or prove a point. Childish behavior in my opinion.

So when he gets uber mad when i make the same mistake, I don't feel like the anger is justified. I'm imperfect...I make mistakes. At least I keep trying.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I'm not sure what you mean about the disagreeing thing. Does he object if your opinion on a topic differs from his and you express it? Belittling his opinion in company would, of course, be disrespectful and rude, but it's quite another matter respectfully expressing a differing opinion during the course of a conversation.
> 
> Regarding the other issues, it sounds like he's carrying a lot of resentment for things that didn't happen in the past which you are now trying to change in the present. What is _he_ doing to facilitate the necessary changes in the relationship, or does he perceive all the faults to be yours? It's very difficult to effect positive changes in a relationship if one party is forever dragging up the past...


Hi Cosmos,

I never belittle him in front of people because that's just not right. When I disagree with him I try to do it very politely and without aggression. But somehow, he manages to feel like I'm disrespecting him and what he knows, even if he's wrong.

With regard to your 2nd comment, over the years, he's been a wonderful man. But he's telling me over and over again that I need to do more and that, when things aren't right, I'm mainly the cause. Yes he does continuously drag up the past. When I mention that to him, he says that it's because I'm still making some of the same mistakes.

In my heart, part of me understands his frustration. I feel the same way about some of his bad habits that haven't changed. But I certainly don't get so mad that I don't want him to speak to me or that I keep throwing it back in his face "You've been doing XYZ since I've known you. Does it ever occur to you that I feel this way because XYZ still hasn't changed?" I get the feeling that what matters to ME isn't as important as what matters to HIM and if I fix the things that matter to HIM, then the stuff that matters to ME will right themselves.

That logic is way too complicated. Take me as I am and encourage me when I improve. Guide me when I'm off course. Don't continue to remind me that I've failed over and over again.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

I actually understand a lot of where he's coming from, but what I don't understand is how he acts in response to the things you do.

I think that there is a fine line when your married regarding questioning each other in front of company. It can be very embarrassing especially when you feel like you should be a team. It belittles your spouse and can make them feel like you're just trying to one-up them. That gets old quick. You say you're trying your best but if that were true, you'd stop doing this. Obviously, we don't know the extent of these interactions so I'm just generalizing here. You say you don't belittle him, but have you considered what the impact on him is rather than your intent?

He also wants to spend more time with you and do certain things together, which is never a bad thing.

So...on those things I can see where he's coming from.

On the flip side, he seems to have a really immature manner in handling these things. Based on what you've written, he acts like a petulant child when you make a "mistake". Frankly, he needs to grow the hell up. A real man does not pout when his wife upsets him (for whatever reason). He handles it face on and deals with it like an adult. 

It sounds to me like you guys need some help communicating. Communication can break down over the course of a marriage without the spouses even knowing it. I agree he sounds resentful, and he's having a very difficult time communicating that to you. It's so bad, that he acts like a baby instead of like an adult man.

I would suggest that you seek out a marriage counselor to help you communicate better.

Oh...and if he's turning down "sexy showers" he's just stupid. I don't care how angry I am, I'm not turning that down!


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Well, you are the one here trying to make things better, so that's good.

Are you voicing a different opinion or correcting "facts" when the two of you are with others? I did this and then realized that people telling a story to others don't NEED to have every fact correct; sometimes they change or shade things differently for the sake of a good story. Being persnickety about the details is just not good story telling. Once I realized this, I stopped "correcting" him--and yes, it helped. If that's what you are doing, think of it as a story--not a fact-based inquisition. and let things go--whether it was his friend or his 2nd cousin twice removed doesn't matter, and the latter is an inconsequential detail to the point of the story.

It really sounds, however, like the two of you could use some marriage counseling. He's very resentful AND he may be passive-aggressive (sounds like that is what you are saying). Does he perceive his mom as uber critical? Getting to the bottom of this will be important for the long haul, b/c if you back off, but he doesn't change, then you will be the resentful one and it will just get worse.

Good luck.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

MrsKeepTrying

From my perspective your husband is a control freak and is manipulating you. You are not required to agree with everything that comes out of his mouth. If your opinion is different than his than he should respect your opinion just as you respect his. Obviously if you are saying his opinion is stupid than that is different but I don't get the sense that is what is happening. It sounds to me like he is insecure.

I agree that counselling would be very helpful. It will help put an objective light on the dynamics of the relationship with your husband. The other idea is reading the book "Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. It teaches you how to say things in a way that doesn't put your partner on the defensive.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

C123 & sisters359,

Thank you both for your responses. I hear what you're both saying. But let me give you more details about what happened this weekend.

I was helping my daughter with an essay and a question of punctuation came up. Here is an example of the sentence in question...

*In the course of the story, person A said "This is an interesting comment" (book citation page 3).*

My daughter and I were trying to figure out whether or not the period should go inside the quotation marks or outside the parenthetical citation. My husband said that a comma should go on the inside of the quotation and a period outside the citation. I disagreed, because a comma implied that there was more to the quotation, which there wasn't. We disagreed over it a little more, explaining our viewpoints and then he looked at me and said "Ok", then walked off. When I asked him to help us with something later he said "No" quite forcefully, which is when I realized that he was angry.

It turned out that he was incorrect, which I verified by looking it up online. But that didn't matter and I didn't even get the opportunity to let him know, even though he probably wouldn't have wanted to hear that. The fact that I disagreed with him in front of my daughter angered him. That fact that I didn't take his word for it angered him. I didn't yell and I wasn't disrespectful. I just disagreed and explained why. In this context, I was just supposed to respect the fact that he was an English Major in college and let it go. But if my daughter's teacher was up on his/her punctuation, then my daughter would've gotten wrong marks for that and other citations like it throughout the essay. Next time, I'll just let him be right, then do my research and make the necessary adjustments without the disagreement.

He prides himself in his communication. I will admit that I'm not always the one who wants to talk about things. Somethings I have to work out for myself. I don't want to discuss something that will illicit judgement or discouraging feedback. Let me puzzle it through my way before you tell me that I SHOULD be doing it another way. 

I've considered marriage counseling, but he's too arrogant to allow some stranger to tell him how to communicate with his wife. So I'm not even going that route. He wouldn't be open to it. 

At this point, I want to try something "new" to break down the wall, but he'll just see it as being hypocritical, since it's not something I would normally do. But I can't do the SAME things because, according to him, they won't work.


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## Max Demien (Jul 24, 2012)

As a married dude (18+ yrs), I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself. You are trying, so I think you are well on your way to healing your marriage and reconnecting with your husband. 
If I were to write a list of issues I have with my wife, it would look amazingly similar to your list.

What guy wouldn't like their wife to just drop everything and throw on a see-thru teddie, crawl across the bed with her honeymoon bedroom eyes and a pink rose in her teeth the second he walks in the door? 

If he gets upset because you correct him in front of others, part of that issue is on him. He shouldn't be so sensitive and insecure. Who cares if you correct him publicly? That used to bother me, but as I got older, I no longer worry about it. I respect myself, and I know what I am saying. She has every right to disagree, and that's ok. He should just ask you politely not to do that, and that should be the end of it. Agree to disagree. You'll never see eye-to-eye on everything in this lifetime, so why torture yourself by trying? 

I hope the men in this place don't think I'm a spineless sellout. I just think a true man is confident in his actions and shouldn't worry about whether his wife is nagging or correcting him. There are bigger worries for guys that are husbands/fathers. My choice, after a long time in self reflection, is that my wife does certain things that I don't like, but her heart is in the right place. That's more important to me.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> MrsKeepTrying
> 
> From my perspective your husband is a control freak and is manipulating you. You are not required to agree with everything that comes out of his mouth. If your opinion is different than his than he should respect your opinion just as you respect his. Obviously if you are saying his opinion is stupid than that is different but I don't get the sense that is what is happening. It sounds to me like he is insecure.
> 
> I agree that counselling would be very helpful. It will help put an objective light on the dynamics of the relationship with your husband. The other idea is reading the book "Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. It teaches you how to say things in a way that doesn't put your partner on the defensive.


Hi Maritime Guy. Thanks for responding. I'm making a note of that book in order to check it out. Thank you for the suggestion.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

As my relationship with my STBXW is so similar to yours, I'm going to chime in..

My wife would apologize all the time for everything, even if she did nothing wrong..The constant "im sorry" began to lose meaning. She over used it for everything and would never elaborate why she is sorry...I began to see the sorry as a blanket statement..There for her to justify her behavior. No "I'm sorry for doing blank and I know that was the wrong thing to say/do."...Just the two words..

After we had to have daily conversations about the same problems over and over, I told her I don't want to hear 'im sorry' I want to FEEL like you ARE sorry...and that means realizing your behavior is causing damage to our relationship..You need to take care not to do it again. You may SAY your sorry, but your actions say differently. How can you be sorry and know what you are doing is hurting me, AND then continue to do?"

......Eventually, the trust was gone and the constant effort trying to rebuild it was killing me physically and emotionally..I wanted to trust her, but I couldn't..the same behaviors kept coming back and so did the two word apology that I felt carried no more weight...

All I wanted from her was for her to stop hurting me and acknowledge that her behavior is causing me pain...and then stop that behavior..

He sounds completely fed up and cut off emotionally..its a long road to rebuilt trust..especially when its been broken time and time again...In my case, it got to a point where I gave up trying...knowing that whatever I do, she won't change..

He needs to open up again and start trusting you....to do that he probably needs to see that constant change from you...once its become the norm...his resentment would most likely lessen..


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Max Demien said:


> As a married dude (18+ yrs), I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself. You are trying, so I think you are well on your way to healing your marriage and reconnecting with your husband.
> If I were to write a list of issues I have with my wife, it would look amazingly similar to your list.
> 
> What guy wouldn't like their wife to just drop everything and throw on a see-thru teddie, crawl across the bed with her honeymoon bedroom eyes and a pink rose in her teeth the second he walks in the door?
> ...


Thank you Max. My heart is definitely in the right place. I love my man to pieces and want to do what I can to foster the right communication. It's tough to do when I get some mixed messages and I'm not really good with nuances. I don't always understand the "unsaid" things. He, on the other hand, reads between the lines all the time, which sometimes leads him to assume things that aren't true. Once that happens, he can't be convinced that his opinion isn't the right one. So I have to deal with that as well. It's hard.

But I'll keep trying. If I was perfect, I'd give up and blame everything on him.  But I'm not and am aware of what I need to work on, so I keep working on those things.


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## Max Demien (Jul 24, 2012)

Nuances? Reading between the lines? I think your husband and my wife were twins separated at birth. I believe if you focus on your love for your husband, that love will empower you to make the changes necessary to reconnect with him. You also need to be patient. Breaking down the emotional walls will take some time. I'm going through the same thing right now. Believe me, I'm far from perfect. None of us are where we want to be, but we're a lot further along than we used to be. We wouldn't be here if we weren't already on the road to healing ourselves and our marriages. Good luck!


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

geek down said:


> As my relationship with my STBXW is so similar to yours, I'm going to chime in...


Hi Geek,

Wow...just wow.

You've just explained how he's told me he's been feeling. I want to win back his trust. I just don't trust my own creativity. I don't really have any and I fear rejection. After 12 years, you would think I'd know exactly what my man wants. I thought I did, but the stakes seem to be higher now and I don't get many clues as to what would top all other things.

I'm dead serious when I say that, at times like this, he's not really even interested in being intimate with me. He says it feels like I'd just be trying to pacify him. There might be some truth in that. I have feelings of my own that are impacted by some of the negativity in our household. So when it comes times to be intimate, I hesitate because I feel that faking it is essentially lying to him. That's not fair. I should be lovin' my husband because I WANT to and want to show him how much I love him, not just because he wants me to "give it to him". I might as well be a prostitute who's working for free.

Your comments are insightful though and they're also giving me something to think about. Thank you.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

MrsKeepTrying said:


> My daughter and I were trying to figure out whether or not the period should go inside the quotation marks or outside the parenthetical citation. My husband said that a comma should go on the inside of the quotation and a period outside the citation. I disagreed, because a comma implied that there was more to the quotation, which there wasn't. We disagreed over it a little more, explaining our viewpoints and then he looked at me and said "Ok", then walked off. When I asked him to help us with something later he said "No" quite forcefully, which is when I realized that he was angry.
> 
> It turned out that he was incorrect, which I verified by looking it up online. But that didn't matter and I didn't even get the opportunity to let him know, even though he probably wouldn't have wanted to hear that.


This sounds like a control issue to me, OP. 

My partner and I spend much of our time discussing, debating and researching a variety of subjects. We are both intelligent people and love learning new things. We sometimes disagree on something, but try to discover why we disagree, as this is how we learn and grow.

Always having to be right, and getting angry when we're proved wrong, or disagreed with, doesn't sound emotionally mature to me. From what you've told us here, IMO, your H is the one with the issues and as such they are for him to deal with. 

It's a pity he won't consider counseling, because I think we can all benefit from learning to communicate more effectively...

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/effective_communication_skills.htm


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

In the situation described regarding the punctuation what would the preferred solution be from your husbands point of view. You say nothing and your daughter turns in a paper with incorrect punctuation? You say nothing at the time but after he's left get her to correct it? 

You and your husband are equals in your relationship. Both of you should be free to express your opinion without provoking animosity in the other. 

You are each responsible for your own feelings. They talk about it in the book I recommended. You don't make your husband angry. He gets angry in response to your actions. There's a subtle difference there that to me is very important.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Well I would think that whatever you do to recover from disrespecting him, would need to "show respect" and put him on a higher plane for a time. Like, do something submissive that you wouldn't normally do. Even assuming a submissive posture during oral, for example, could go a long way. 

Or let him catch you talking him up to a friend. Like, get a friend on the phone and steer the conversation to some topic where you can say how great he is at something and make sure he's in earshot when you say it. Subtly let him know that you admire some part of him or what he does. Don't say it directly to him, that seems less sincere.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Maybe this is over my head, but I sure hope you're being sarcastic WOM.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well I would think that whatever you do to recover from disrespecting him, would need to "show respect" and put him on a higher plane for a time. Like, do something submissive that you wouldn't normally do. Even assuming a submissive posture during oral, for example, could go a long way.
> 
> Or let him catch you talking him up to a friend. Like, get a friend on the phone and steer the conversation to some topic where you can say how great he is at something and make sure he's in earshot when you say it. Subtly let him know that you admire some part of him or what he does. Don't say it directly to him, that seems less sincere.



I truly hope this is meant as a joke? :rofl:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hey give me a break. 

I've read through the responses to this thread and all I see are a bunch of rants about how wrong the husband is. C123 called him several names and offered exactly zero advice. She asked a specific question. She wants to know what she can do differently. She wants to convince her husband that she respects him. The things that others were posting were just hurtful to her husband.

Cosmos, you did suggest counseling which is a pretty decent "standard" answer. You didn't answer her question about what she could do differently though, rather, just said he has control issues.

Maybe my approach seems condescending, I don't know. She wanted a fresh perspective and an idea for what she could try to change things up. I took her at her word and gave her an idea or 2. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I doubt it would do any harm though.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Actually WOM, I suggested that they had a breakdown in communication and needed some outside assistance there. I recommended that they needed to see a counselor in order to learn how to better communicate with each other since obviously nothing else is working.

And yes, based on what she's written, I do think this man is acting childishly and she needs to know that it's not normal or productive behavior. If I knew someone who acted like this around his wife, I would be disgusted.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well I would think that whatever you do to recover from disrespecting him, would need to "show respect" and put him on a higher plane for a time. Like, do something submissive that you wouldn't normally do. Even assuming a submissive posture during oral, for example, could go a long way.
> 
> Or let him catch you talking him up to a friend. Like, get a friend on the phone and steer the conversation to some topic where you can say how great he is at something and make sure he's in earshot when you say it. Subtly let him know that you admire some part of him or what he does. Don't say it directly to him, that seems less sincere.


WOM, I appreciate the suggestions. Since I'm not really prone to being on the phone much, that idea probably won't work. He'd see thru it anyway. 

I've got no prob with oral submission. But that's not something "new". I've gotta come stronger than that...and soon. If I don't make a move, then my next mistake will be letting this drag on while I'm trying to figure this out.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

geek down said:


> As my relationship with my STBXW is so similar to yours, I'm going to chime in..
> 
> My wife would apologize all the time for everything, even if she did nothing wrong..The constant "im sorry" began to lose meaning. She over used it for everything and would never elaborate why she is sorry...I began to see the sorry as a blanket statement..There for her to justify her behavior. No "I'm sorry for doing blank and I know that was the wrong thing to say/do."...Just the two words..
> 
> ...



geek: This is my life and I couldn't have described it any better. My wife says I'm sorry all the time regardless of who's at fault. It makes you lose respect for a person and then the trust is gone as you said. We've talked about it many times, but it's ingrained in her personality from childhood (Alchoholic/abusive parents). I also told her I never want to hear those words again because they're so empty now. It's like a reflex and after 20 years and I'm sure she can't change.

To the OP: You mentioned that your husband reads between the lines and you do not. Does he tell you what he's expecting and how he feels all the time? Is he always the one to inititate relationship talk? I'm wondering how often you bring up relationship issues and if your husband thinks your timing is bad when you finally do it? I'm selfishly asking these things because I'm hoping that we might be able to help each other understand our spouses. 

My wife has a hard time reading what's behind my emotional state. Her's either for that matter. She isn't able to anticipate what I'm going to think or do while I can accurately predict what she'll say and do in most situations. I mean after 20 years you tend to know a person. In a nut shell she isn't the most sensitive person when it comes to understanding emotions. She's a very nice person and good mother, but since I never get any meaningful feedback from her I've begun to stop trying. I'm a bit hopeless for our marriage and it sounds like your husband may also be at this point. Its not a good place to be.

Peace


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

> My husband complains that I've kept making the same mistakes for the past 12 years. He's referring to things like this:
> 
> 1) Questioning him in front of others and giving the impression that I don't respect him or his word. *Whether or not he's right isn't the point*.


People who do things or say things based on facts and logic love to argue because they know they are right and they have lots of evidence to back it up. People who are wrong completely shut down and resort to personal attacks. Not being able to defend himself against your questions leads me to believe that he's not intelligent, he knows he's not intelligent, and he's very sensitive about that particular issue. Is there any history to this? People calling him stupid, being held back grades, being compared to a sibling that was smarter, etc?


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,

There are couple of things that may help you address the situation. Before I go into them please keep in mind that ideally there are many things your husband should do as well such as having a better control of his ego, address his insecurities and be willing to fulfill your emotional needs better.

That said on your side here is what you can do: 
Firstly learn how to diplomatically and tactfully communicate. You are in a situation where he has a hyper sensitive ego and developing this tact is very important. 

As an example with the punctuation scenario words along the lines of: "That may be a possibility and given your education and command of the language it may very well be so, I do have a concern and would you mind if we double checked online to make sure." 

The habit of talking like this will take time and energy to form. I recommend Dale Carnegie - How to win friends and influence people as a great material on this

Secondly you would do well to become proficient at showing respect. The sort of respect a man wants. This is not a natural skill for you or most women thus documentation and diligent practice is needed to get the hang of it. You are naturally adept at showing love but a healthy dose of respect is needed as well. 

To understand the difference and how to proceed a good material would be The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs. 

Ideally both of you would read and implement this as again he is not fully meeting your emotional needs either and his excuses for it are not valid.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> To the OP: You mentioned that your husband reads between the lines and you do not. Does he tell you what he's expecting and how he feels all the time? Is he always the one to inititate relationship talk? I'm wondering how often you bring up relationship issues and if your husband thinks your timing is bad when you finally do it? I'm selfishly asking these things because I'm hoping that we might be able to help each other understand our spouses.
> 
> My wife has a hard time reading what's behind my emotional state. Her's either for that matter. She isn't able to anticipate what I'm going to think or do while I can accurately predict what she'll say and do in most situations. I mean after 20 years you tend to know a person. In a nut shell she isn't the most sensitive person when it comes to understanding emotions. She's a very nice person and good mother, but since I never get any meaningful feedback from her I've begun to stop trying. I'm a bit hopeless for our marriage and it sounds like your husband may also be at this point. Its not a good place to be.
> 
> Peace


I think you're hitting the nail on the head with your comments. He always seems to be able to 'predict' behaviors, sometimes as if he expects the worse. I don't often bring up relationship issues because it usually turns into an argument and I'm the wrong one. When I point out his similar behavior, my concerns aren't as relevant so they don't get any kind of traction. I dont pick that battle to fight anymore.

I've tried giving meaningful feedback. But it doesn't seem to him to be warranted. So that leaves me with no real outlet except to do EVERYTHING that makes him happy so that I can be happy again.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

ShawnD said:


> People who do things or say things based on facts and logic love to argue because they know they are right and they have lots of evidence to back it up. People who are wrong completely shut down and resort to personal attacks. Not being able to defend himself against your questions leads me to believe that he's not intelligent, he knows he's not intelligent, and he's very sensitive about that particular issue. Is there any history to this? People calling him stupid, being held back grades, being compared to a sibling that was smarter, etc?


Absolutely not! I can say without hesitation that he's a very smart man. He's smart to the point that he can come across as arrogant and condescending. It isn't intentional. He knows what he knows and can back it up. In my opinion, the issue is that, when it comes to people, he knows EVERYTHING...every motive, every line of reasoning...EVERYTHING! That's not humanly possibly.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

MrsKeepTrying said:


> So that leaves me with no real outlet except to do EVERYTHING that makes him happy so that I can be happy again.


That does not sound positive at all. That's the kind of devotion one might expect from their dog. 

I'm going to hazard a guess that no matter what you do you will never quite live up to what he wants from you. In the end what he wants from you is to feel better about himself. That has to come from within it's not something you can do for him.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

MrsKeepTrying said:


> I think you're hitting the nail on the head with your comments. He always seems to be able to 'predict' behaviors, sometimes as if he expects the worse. I don't often bring up relationship issues because it usually turns into an argument and I'm the wrong one. When I point out his similar behavior, my concerns aren't as relevant so they don't get any kind of traction. I dont pick that battle to fight anymore.
> 
> I've tried giving meaningful feedback. But it doesn't seem to him to be warranted. So that leaves me with no real outlet except to do EVERYTHING that makes him happy so that I can be happy again.



My wife does this also. She's always been a confrontation avoider and is very sensitive to any type of argument. I stopped yelling completely about 5 years ago, but it hasn't changed our dynamic. I was out of line when I was yelling and made a big effort to change myself. My opinion now is that our relationship is fundamentally unhealthy for both of us due to our differences. Makes me depressed to think about it.
Unfortunately your husband may not respect you when you stop trying to make your point or work on the relationship. If you resort to showing your love through trying to make him happy he will lose more respect since it appears as if you won't deal with the issue at hand. My wife lies over little things that she's embarrassed about which really have no direct consequences to our relationship. This has also wiped out my trust in her since you never know when she's trying to cover up. I would reccommend that you simply say "I'm not sure and let me get back to you" if there is something you don't want to answer at the moment. Admitting you screwed up before he has time to figure it out is a good way to go. He should be a big enough person to accept that answer. If not, then he needs to work on himself big time.

One thing that we've done lately is to have our discussions on Skype while at work. This way she can gather her thoughts and not just react to my comments under pressure. It was amazing to see how different her responses were when I wasn't in front of her. She is easily intimidated by everyone she meets and it doesn't help that I'm a serious dude at 6'3". She said she feels out matched in an argument and often says incorrect things. I also stopped pointing this out many years ago because it doesn't make a difference one way or another. Your husband needs to stop picking on you and give you some time to respond to stuff if he wants your marriage to succeed. You also need to stop looking for ways to prove him wrong to get even. He'll resent that even if he deserves it. It won't help your situation one bit. We are all different in how we process information. If you aren't a planner/forecaster type of person your responses may appear less developed to him since you live in the moment and he already thought about that moment 5 days ago. There have been many times I have been wrong about stuff and have made it a point to admit it to my wife in an attempt to help her have more confidence. I want a more confident wife now, but I can honestly say that wasn't true when we got married. I had to take responsibility for pursuing a spouse that lacked confidence which means now I must make an extra effort to help her grow. Your husband sounds like he hasn't realized he is responsible for pursuing you and therefore can't accept who you are. He needs to meet you half way at least. 

Edit: If I've projected my crap too much just ignore what doesn't apply. I'm not trying to offend you.

Peace


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Stop saying you are trying when obviously you're not trying. It doesn't take years to get the message. Trying doesn't mean you keep on accepting being criticized or corrected. Trying means you eliminate the need for correction.

But, my question is: What on earth is it you think you are trying to do? Trying not to anger him when all he got angry over was you having your own opinion......that differs from his? Trying to do as he asked when he rejects each effort because you should have been doing it all the long? Trying to run after him when he's angry although he had nothing to get angry about? Trying not to forget your mind-reading abilities on the pillow each morning?

He is manipulating you into doing exactly what you are doing, which is taking the blame for breathing. You are married to a controlling idiot who 1) refuses to be wrong about anything, 2) enjoys being mad so he can watch you squeal and so he can find something else to complain about so he feels superior, and 3) will never be satisfied no matter what you do. 

You know you haven't done anything wrong. Surely you know you are not supposed to go through life agreeing with everything he says....or better yet, you're not supposed to go through life unable to have your own opinions and concerns.

Do you feel inadequate?
Do you feel like a bad wife?
Do you feel inferior to him?
Do you feel incapable?
Do you feel stupid?

I bet you feel all those things. You don't feel them because you ARE inadequate, a bad wife, inferior, incapable, or stupid. You feel them because this is exactly how he wants you to feel.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> That does not sound positive at all. That's the kind of devotion one might expect from their dog.
> 
> I'm going to hazard a guess that no matter what you do you will never quite live up to what he wants from you. In the end what he wants from you is to feel better about himself. That has to come from within it's not something you can do for him.


Perhaps you're right. The thought has occurred to me that I'll never satisfy him. But to me, because I recognize where I can improve, before I totally give up, I'm working on my own self-confidence to prove to myself that I know how to fix my own issues. In the meantime, if he is willing to wait while I fix me, then we'll be happy together in the end. We've been happy before...we can be there again.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> My wife does this also. She's always been a confrontation avoider and is very sensitive to any type of argument. I stopped yelling completely about 5 years ago, but it hasn't changed our dynamic. I was out of line when I was yelling and made a big effort to change myself. My opinion now is that our relationship is fundamentally unhealthy for both of us due to our differences. Makes me depressed to think about it....


Hi Enginerd,

Your points have been the closest to what I've been experiencing.

I tired of arguing a long time ago. When I get angry and frustrated, I don't communicate very well. I speak before I think and that, in turns, muddles things. I end up saying things that either don't make sense (because I'm scrambling to say something meaningful) or that are totally irrelevant. He responds as expected and the conversation goes down hill from there. 

You made a good point about my trying to show my love by making him happy instead of dealing with the issues. I'd always felt that, if I focused on just my own issues, then I wasn't working together with him as a unit. Focusing on myself seemed selfish. But I'm beginning to realize that, over the years, I've put so much energy into him that I've neglected myself emotionally and physically. As a result, I don't feel like myself anymore and I think I've built resentment toward him because of that. Ultimately it's not totally his fault because I allowed myself to get this way, but he is definitely a contributing factor.

I had an epiphany yesterday that I should start building myself back up, both emotionally and physically. Perhaps, in doing so, he will notice me gaining back my self-confidence and will power and can respect that move toward change...without thinking that I'm neglecting him. That's the tricky piece that I'm trying to navigate. If I pay him less attention while I work on me, he would most likely start to feel like I'm not interested in him anymore, which certainly isn't the case. I have to find a way to balance the two...and that's one big thing that's been hard for me.

By the way, you're not offending me at all. Seeing your perspective is helping since it's so similar to what I'm doing through.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

River1977 said:


> Stop saying you are trying when obviously you're not trying. It doesn't take years to get the message. Trying doesn't mean you keep on accepting being criticized or corrected. Trying means you eliminate the need for correction.
> ...


Thanks for your response River. While I don't totally agree with the harsh tone or some of your lines of reasoning, I'm taking some of your words at face value and will think on them when I'm doing my own self analysis of my part in the problem.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

MrsKeepTrying said:


> Hi Enginerd,
> 
> Your points have been the closest to what I've been experiencing.
> 
> ...



Glad to help. You're perspective helps me be more patient with my wife. I told my wife that I'd rather she work on herself then cook or clean. I would rather have a confident happy wife who's into me then someone who resents me. I asked her to stop doing my laundry and still had to stop her from doing it a few times after I asked. We've made some progress but its hard to reverse a lifetime of behaviors. It's like she can't help herself and I can't step in everytime to point out she doesn't need to do something since that's not too sexy if you know what I mean.

I think the key to keeping him aware that you still care while your busy working on yourself is to use your new confidence on him like only a wife can. Keep the daily surprises to a minimum and let him know what your doing. Don't ask for persmission but tell him what your new schedule is going to be and how it will affect him. He may get snippy if he doesn't get the day to day attention at first but you should ignore him when he's like that. Once he realizes that you're truely improving yourself and you plan to share your improved self with him he should come around if he has a heart. He will respect you a whole lot more in the end. Like others have said this isn't just about your improvement. He needs to take a hard look at himself and assume his share of the responsibility. You may need to calmly tell him that. I didn't get the sense that your husband was a hardcore abusive guy like others have insinuated here, but he definately needs to change his ways. It may be a case where you're too sensitive and he's verbally abusive on occassion. It's never acceptable for him to be abusive but he doesn't sound like an axe murderer either. One thing that you may not realize is that he's basically an insecure person which is what causes him to overeact. While he may appear overconfident to you it's his way to protect his fragile ego. This was my big epiphany. Strength is not about being forceful, arguing or being right. Strength is about being able to calmly deal with any situation without your ego getting in the way. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to keep my mouth shut but now I know its the right thing to do. He needs to humble himself and realize that everything is not about him. You should ask him if he wants you to be happy and see what he says.


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## MrsKeepTrying (Jul 31, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Glad to help. You're perspective helps me be more patient with my wife...


Thanks again for your viewpoint. He said something interesting today after I'd asked his opinion about a few things. I'm working on showing more of an interest in things he likes and am resolved to continuing liking them instead of just liking them to get over the rough patch. That's the loving thing to do. But he said those ideas were "things" and he's not interested in things.

What does that mean? How do you classify an action as a "thing"? What other action could I take to show my respect and desires for him w/out him thinking it's just a thing or a phase?


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Yeah he sounds like me. I think he's looking for signs of a deeper emotional connection. He wants to know that your tuned into his needs and emotional states. If he's like me he doesn't care if you like all his interests. He's doesn't care about your acts of service by which you show your love. He needs to hear how you feel about him one way or another. It may not be all good but at least it will be honest feelings from you.

Just last night I told my wife that I didn't think she thought of me as a whole person with real feelings like guilt, regret, fear and love. Somehow she doesn't feel its necessary to keep track of my emotional state or daily challenges where I always have to pay close attention to hers. Since she won't talk to me about her feelings I have to observe her actions and moods to figure it out. I'm good at it now, but honestly I'm worn out from trying so much. It's almost like she treats me like you would a boss or authority figure. Only telling him/her certain things because your afraid of their response or the consequences. She's so triggered by anything remotely resembling criticism that she avoids the possibility of it at all costs. She only talks to me about mundane things and never about her inner thoughts. Its hard to be close to her this way. She flat out lies about many things. Last night we also talked about how she came into our marriage overly sensitive (Abusive parents) and how I totally made it worse by yelling at her when I was frustrated. I would yell once or twice a month after a few years of marriage. That all stopped several years ago but the damage was done. Is your husband still yelling alot?


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