# Husband will not set boundaries with someone he cheated with



## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we have just started marriage counseling a couple of months ago. There has been infidelity and a lot of lies, but I am trying to work on forgiving and moving forward. I am struggling with some issues that will, of course, take awhile to be resolved. My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.

I am having some trouble with boundaries. I had a difficult time with them in the beginning of our counseling because I was basing them on the wrong thing. Just some back story before I get to the actual question I want to ask.

Now, we have an issue that started in the beginning of our marriage. It actually started before our marriage, but I did not find that out until well into our marriage. My husband had a female best friend that I knew about and I had met once. I didn't know her that well but he didn't really say much about her and I didn't really know anything so it wasn't a big deal to me. I was so young and so in love that I basically didn't see the red flags going up all around me. After we were married and I was around them more and more, I began to see signs that this was not a friendship but something more. I voiced my concern and was met with, "well if you don't like it, you can leave because she was here before you and she always will be". At the time I was very young and always used the 'but he loves me and he is married to me' logic. Fast forward a few years and I found out that he had made out with her (during our marriage) and for whatever reason it didn't go any further than that. As far as I know now, that is the only time that he physically cheated on me with her, but I am well aware that there is probably more times and I will never really know unless he or she tells me. She lives in another state, but he goes back sometimes to visit for different reasons. Long story short, they stopped talking. She is now married but I know that when he visits they all hangout like old times. She has a sister and my husband texts her first thing and I feel like her sister is his connection to hold onto her.. Does that make sense? He doesn't talk to his former-best-friend by phone or messenger but he does text her sister and hangs out with her when he goes home. I know that if the sister is around the former-best-friend is around and he does not understand why I have an issue with him talking to her sister.

He recently went home and of course he was hanging out with her, her sister and his cousins (the sisters are best friends with his cousin). He claims to not see why I have an issue with him contacting her sister and why I have an issue with him putting himself in the same situation that brought on most of the pain and distrust that is in our relationship now.

Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family- and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him. I think that he doesn't want to set boundaries or change anything because he is still trying to hold on to their connection through her sister. (I did my best to explain the situation)


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

lala210 said:


> Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family- and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him.



I think he's full of **** and if he were my husband, I'll tell him to either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever. It's not at all unrealistic for you to want to set boundaries. By not being willing to follow your boundaries he's telling you how he feels about you and your marriage. Please, listen to him.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> I think he's full of **** and if he were my husband, I'll tell him to either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever. It's not at all unrealistic for you to want to set boundaries. By not being willing to follow your boundaries he's telling you how he feels about you and your marriage. Please, listen to him.


But NMJ, she didn't say she wants him to follow her boundaries because she doesn't have any boundaries. She said she wants HIM to set boundaries.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

lala210 said:


> I voiced my concern and was met with, "well if you don't like it, you can leave . . ."


Since you stayed instead of leaving when he gave you this stupid ultimatum, you showed him a bunch of things, namely:

1. That you are desperate to keep him;
2. That he means more to you than you mean to yourself;
3. That he is the most important person in the relationship;
4. That he can continue to dupe you and see his lover as often as he can make the trip and use her sister and family as decoy;
5. That he can continue to snow you by pretending he doesn't understand what you say.

He did all those things because you allowed him. You essentially told him he could because people will try to get away with doing whatever they can get away with doing.



lala210 said:


> I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family


Of course he will. He uses everything you say against you. He uses all of your insecurities against you.



lala210 said:


> and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him.


That's why you're still there putting up with his bullcrap and all this silly drama. He keep letting him know you love him more than you love yourself. 



lala210 said:


> Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? - I think that he doesn't want to set boundaries or change anything because he is still trying to hold on to their connection through her sister. (I did my best to explain the situation)


Do you know how often people come to internet boards like this wanting their spouse to change, while they, themselves, don't want to do any changing? It's every day. It's all the time. And you have joined their ranks.

It's also very common for people throw the word "boundaries" around when it applies to their spouse/partner, but they really have no idea what that word means. 

So I'm asking why you want HIM to establish and enforce boundaries, but you don't have any boundaries yourself?

Boundaries are based on the personal values and rules of conduct that a person places on THEMSELVES and those in their life. That means you can only establish boundaries for yourself. You cannot require someone else has boundaries because, again, boundaries are borne of a person's OWN value system and are up to each individual to establish for themselves. Either he has boundaries or he doesn't. Whether he has any is not for you to be concerned with. You can only concern yourself with your own boundaries.

So if you want anyone to have boundaries, you have to have some. But you don't. You just keep letting this man run over you as he pleases. If there are things he does that you don't like and he is disrespectful to you, which there clearly are and he clearly is, then you have to establish your own boundaries and determine you don't like those disrespectful things he does. And then, you have to decide what to do about his disrespect and crossing your boundaries.

You cannot decide to keep telling him and keep arguing with him because all you're doing is arguing. And all he's doing is pretending he doesn't understand what you say. Having boundaries is not about arguing a person into compliance because you can't MAKE anyone do what you want. You can only show them that you won't tolerate what they do and won't tolerate them disrespecting you, and you can't keep telling them over and over "I'm not going to tolerate this." You have to show them that you're not....by leaving since they refuse to respect your boundaries.

Until you have respect for yourself and establish your own boundaries, your husband is going to keep on disrespecting you because you don't respect yourself. Since you love him more than you love yourself, you might as well stop arguing and stop trying to explain things to him just so he can keep pretending not to understand and using everything against you.

And just for the record, they have done much more than kiss. "It was just a kiss" was just another snow job that you fell for.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

StarFires said:


> But NMJ, she didn't say she wants him to follow her boundaries because she doesn't have any boundaries. She said she wants HIM to set boundaries.



You are quite right. I still think he's full of ****. Any guy that continues to make sure he gets to spend time with the OW is full of **** when he says he's working on fixing his marriage. 

OP, tell him what YOUR boundaries are and take it from there. He either wants to fix your marriage or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he doesn't really love you the way you need your husband to love you and you shouldn't waste anymore time on him. Believe me when I say, you do not want to be looking back 10+ years from now wishing you had drawn a line in the sand and taken your life back.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Look up gaslighting.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> You are quite right. I still think he's full of ****. Any guy that continues to make sure he gets to spend time with the OW is full of **** when he says he's working on fixing his marriage.
> 
> OP, tell him what YOUR boundaries are and take it from there. He either wants to fix your marriage or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he doesn't really love you the way you need your husband to love you and you shouldn't waste anymore time on him. Believe me when I say, you do not want to be looking back 10+ years from now wishing you had drawn a line in the sand and taken your life back.


You're so right about 10 years from now. It's already been 14 years, infidelity, and lies. All of which do continue and will continue. LaLa, NMJ also reminds me that I meant to ask why he goes on vacations without you? I mean, why do you tolerate it only to keep wondering if he's with her while he lies and says he isn't? Why don't you and he visit his family together?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Do you have children?


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> I think he's full of **** and if he were my husband, I'll tell him to either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever. It's not at all unrealistic for you to want to set boundaries. By not being willing to follow your boundaries he's telling you how he feels about you and your marriage. Please, listen to him.


(I hope I am replying the right way. I'm just going to go down the line)

I am now seeing that what I have posted here is only the teeny, tiny tip of a gigantic iceberg. I am still very much trying to find my way through everything and these replies are...wow. You are right, he is full of ****, but between him downplaying the situation and pretty much making me feel bad for having any sort of feelings about the situation, I can see what I have become - a scared woman with no self-esteem and woman with no idea how to be treated right. So I can see it, but I guess I choose to ignore it I guess because I don't know how to fix myself. I want to say to him exactly what you said, "...either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever", but the thought of that sparks fear and anxiety. It makes me start to think about how I will leave this relationship, that I am not strong enough and how I will be able to be on my own and it just goes on and on from there.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

So what does your marriage counsellor say about all this?


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

StarFires said:


> Since you stayed instead of leaving when he gave you this stupid ultimatum, you showed him a bunch of things, namely:
> 
> 1. That you are desperate to keep him;
> 2. That he means more to you than you mean to yourself;
> ...


This was very hard to read. It's difficult to think that I have allowed myself be this kind of person because everything you listed is true. Our therapist is aware of this situation, we all talked about it and he said nothing even close to this and I wish he had.



StarFires said:


> But NMJ, she didn't say she wants him to follow her boundaries because she doesn't have any boundaries. She said she wants HIM to set boundaries.
> *********************************
> 
> Do you know how often people come to internet boards like this wanting their spouse to change, while they, themselves, don't want to do any changing? It's every day. It's all the time. And you have joined their ranks.
> ...



In our therapy sessions we talked about boundaries and I THOUGHT I have been having trouble with them because I didn't really understand them, but now I think it's because I'm scared. I am so scared that my husband is going to say, "no, eff that. I'm leaving." and not only will I be a failure, but I will also get that final hit to knock me in the head and show me that he never really cared about me as much as I have cared about him. I did write some down though and it was extremely difficult for me to think of what I wanted/needed from him. The therapist wanted me to come up with 5-7 non-negotiable boundaries and I could only think of 2. I did go over them with my husband and he agreed to them, but I just now realized that neither of my boundaries specifically covered this "best friend" situation. 




StarFires said:


> Of course he will. He uses everything you say against you. He uses all of your insecurities against you.


I have just thought of multiple examples of times that he has done this. 





StarFires said:


> Boundaries are based on the personal values and rules of conduct that a person places on THEMSELVES and those in their life. That means you can only establish boundaries for yourself. You cannot require someone else has boundaries because, again, boundaries are borne of a person's OWN value system and are up to each individual to establish for themselves. Either he has boundaries or he doesn't. Whether he has any is not for you to be concerned with. You can only concern yourself with your own boundaries.
> 
> So if you want anyone to have boundaries, you have to have some. But you don't. You just keep letting this man run over you as he pleases. If there are things he does that you don't like and he is disrespectful to you, which there clearly are and he clearly is, then you have to establish your own boundaries and determine you don't like those disrespectful things he does. And then, you have to decide what to do about his disrespect and crossing your boundaries.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. You made this a lot more clear than our therapist did. He gave me a handout and it didn't give a very good explanation. It just gave examples and did not explain that they are mine and have nothing to do with my husband. 



StarFires said:


> And just for the record, they have done much more than kiss. "It was just a kiss" was just another snow job that you fell for.


The insecure person in me wants to give an explanation of how I "know" that it wasn't more than a kiss, but I see the silliness in that. If the kiss happened, there was definitely more that has happened between them, even if it was at a different time.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> You are quite right. I still think he's full of ****. Any guy that continues to make sure he gets to spend time with the OW is full of **** when he says he's working on fixing his marriage.
> 
> OP, tell him what YOUR boundaries are and take it from there. He either wants to fix your marriage or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he doesn't really love you the way you need your husband to love you and you shouldn't waste anymore time on him. Believe me when I say, you do not want to be looking back 10+ years from now wishing you had drawn a line in the sand and taken your life back.


Notmyjamie, you are right. I struggle with feelings of regret now, but then I feel guilty for thinking like that. I definitely do not want to keep adding to it


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

StarFires said:


> You're so right about 10 years from now. It's already been 14 years, infidelity, and lies. All of which do continue and will continue. LaLa, NMJ also reminds me that I meant to ask why he goes on vacations without you? I mean, why do you tolerate it only to keep wondering if he's with her while he lies and says he isn't? Why don't you and he visit his family together?


We don't usually have the funds for everyone to go, especially if it is a last minute visit for different reasons. We have gone back to visit together and the last couple of visits he didn't meet up with them as far as I know.

I don't know why I tolerate it because I drive myself crazy wondering what he is doing and who he is with. As I answer all these questions I am just thinking how crazy this all is and I have allowed this to continue for 14 YEARS.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Do you have children?


yes


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

lala210 said:


> My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we have just started marriage counseling a couple of months ago. There has been infidelity and a lot of lies, but I am trying to work on forgiving and moving forward. I am struggling with some issues that will, of course, take awhile to be resolved. My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.


How is he trying to regain your trust? - I don't see it from your description.

Find someone who cares about you.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> So what does your marriage counsellor say about all this?


He thinks that we can repair the damage, but he is having us do individual work first before we start working on the couple's therapy. So we have talked about the different situations that brought us to seek his help, but we just had a quick discussion. I think once we start the couple sessions exclusively, we will go more in-depth about each situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lala210 said:


> yes


That makes things more difficult as I was going to suggest having papers drawn up.

His behavior is intolerable. Visiting relatives is fine as long as they don't include OW but that apparently isn't on their radar.

I would still get a consultation with a lawyer to see where you stand and what your rights are.

I can't really see you continuing with such a self centered a-hole that puts his relationship with the woman he cheated with above his wife and family.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

lala210 said:


> He thinks that we can repair the damage, but he is having us do individual work first before we start working on the couple's therapy. So we have talked about the different situations that brought us to seek his help, but we just had a quick discussion. I think once we start the couple sessions exclusively, we will go more in-depth about each situation.


Do not trust the words of your marriage counselor.

Any spouse who dare says, "if you don't like it you can leave" should be left. If your MC doesn't understand what your cheating husband is doing to you, drop him or her.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Lala, I'm not going to try to quote everything you've said in your subsequent posts. I'm just going to try to tell you that you don't need marriage counseling right now. It cannot possibly do your marriage any good, and there are a few reasons for that. One is that the type of guy your husband is, the marriage counseling can't work on him because he doesn't respect his wife, and also because he's not willing to change. Just like he snows you, he also snows the counselor. Men like him are very charming and very convincing to make people think they are respectable and sincere. But he isn't. Instead of learning and applying the concepts, none of them mean anything to him. He's just thinking "yeah, right. I'll do as I please and keep getting away with it." You see how he found a way to circumvent direct contact with her by using her sister as a decoy. That's the way he is. He is adept at making you think he's doing as you asked, only to find slicker ways to do what he wants. So would you pleeeease stop repeating what he told you? All he does is lie and twist things to fool you. He says he doesn't talk to her, but he surely does talk to her. You know there's such a thing as 3-way calling, right? He calls the sister, and the sister calls her so the two of them can talk and make plans, while he dupes you into thinking he doesn't call her anymore. Well, he doesn't call her. See how slick he is?

Another reason is that you're not mentally prepared for marriage counseling. Being that you are ruled by fear of losing your husband, it can't possibly work because MC is a negotiation. Each partner has to be willing to give and each has to be willing to stand their ground. But you are more willing to give because you can't stand your ground. In order to do that, you have to know your worth.

To help you build your self-esteem, you need strong women in your life to coach you. You need individual counseling to help you find who you are. And you need a determination to listen - to listen to both the people advising you and to listen to your own gut instincts. Don't worry, girl, we'll be the BFFs that you never had.

And finally, the purpose of marriage counseling is not to point the flaws of the individuals in front of them. Their job is to teach you how to communicate better, how to fight fairly, how to strengthen your marriage, etc. But like I said, your husband is busy fooling the counselor. 

The marriage counselors job is not to play mommy and make your husband behave and act right. His job is not to settle your disputes. His job is to teach you how to settle disputes between you, as well as how to prevent problems from blowing out of proportion and out of control.

So to expect him to advise you as we here have done is not in his job description. That he hasn't is actually no surprise at all. Again, you need your own counselor to help and once you have built up your self-esteem and gained strength from individual counseling, then you can consider marriage counseling if you still want to. What I expect, and hope, is that you will no longer want marriage counseling because you will have built up the nerve to kick your husband out and tell his so-called "best friend" that she can have him. LOL

But seriously, unless you are able to demand respect by not tolerating his disrespect, marriage counseling can't help your marriage.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I would still get a consultation with a lawyer to see where you stand and what your rights are.
> 
> I can't really see you continuing with such a self centered a-hole that puts his relationship with the woman he cheated with above his wife and family.


Yes, do as Conan says and go see a divorce lawyer. We know you're too afraid to divorce, and we're not asking you to. We're only asking you to talk to one. Most attorneys offer a 1-hour free consultation. This is just to know where you stand and what to expect should you ever decide to divorce. This is only to help you. More than likely, you'll learn that you're not underdog you think you are.

And please dump the marriage counseling and find yourself an individual counselor. It cannot be this same counselor.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is self-esteem. Your eyes are being opened and you're willing to learn. It will come as you grow. Let yourself grow and you'll learn as you go.

Also, your husband doesn't have to agree to your boundaries. They are your boundaries. You tell your husband what they are and then if he steps over your line, you move back away from him to protect yourself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lala210 said:


> (I hope I am replying the right way. I'm just going to go down the line)
> 
> I am now seeing that what I have posted here is only the teeny, tiny tip of a gigantic iceberg. I am still very much trying to find my way through everything and these replies are...wow. You are right, he is full of ****, but between him downplaying the situation and pretty much making me feel bad for having any sort of feelings about the situation, I can see what I have become - a scared woman with no self-esteem and woman with no idea how to be treated right. So I can see it, but I guess I choose to ignore it I guess because I don't know how to fix myself. I want to say to him exactly what you said, "...either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever", but the thought of that sparks fear and anxiety. It makes me start to think about how I will leave this relationship, that I am not strong enough and how I will be able to be on my own and it just goes on and on from there.


You need to have him subjected to a lie detector session and then get a post nuptial agreement created.

If he will do neither, see a divorce lawyer.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is self-esteem. Your eyes are being opened and you're willing to learn. It will come as you grow. Let yourself grow and you'll learn as you go.
> 
> Also, your husband doesn't have to agree to your boundaries. They are your boundaries. You tell your husband what they are and then if he steps over your line, you move back away from him to protect yourself.


Great post. @lala210 I think it's time you worked on yourself first and not the marriage. Are you doing the individual work your marriage counselor recommended with that same counselor? If so, stop. Get a different therapist, one whose only goal is to help YOU increase your sense of self worth and learn that you are worth so much more than what your husband is offering. You should go in with attitude of "I need help fixing ME" not that you need help fixing your marriage. It will take time, as Cynthia said, Rome wasn't built in a day. 

Also, keep reading a lot of the posts here. As you read more and more you'll read stories about marriages that show you what you want and what you don't want. There are some people here with really good marriages and the more of their posts you read the more you'll start to see how things should be, how your husband should be treating you. There are also lots of stories of bad marriages and reading about those helps too. 

Because you may not know it, but you are worth it.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

lala210 said:


> I don't know why I tolerate it because I drive myself crazy wondering what he is doing and who he is with. As I answer all these questions I am just thinking how crazy this all is and I have allowed this to continue for 14 YEARS.


As someone who also ignored the truth of her marriage for 14 years, my advice is this. Don’t dwell on that, move forward. We can’t change the past we can only learn from it. So learn from it so those years won’t have been wasted.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Dump.......His........A$$....


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

You both should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass. 

It's based on research on couples that experienced infidelity and the 'boundaries' they crossed that made their marriage vulnerable. You'll identify/read about some of the boundaries you should insist your husband apply.

Plus: 

1 - Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your husband's continued contact is a big fail (and IMO is cruel to you). NC means NC with the OW or anyone that knew of the affair (like the sister?). He cheated, therefore, one of the consequences is that he needs to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe (forever). Why does he go out of town without you? Why would he want to?

2 - There's sort of a consensus (maybe in writing somewhere) that to save your marriage you need to be willing to lose it. I think it means your spouse will not take anything you say seriously unless they believe (really believe) you are ready to divorce them (and he faces the reality of losing you). 

3 - Unfortunately nice loving kind people (nothing for you to be ashamed of) are at a disadvantage when dealing with someone that is: selfish, entitled, and lacks empathy for you. He sees your niceness & tolerance as a weakness that he can't stop himself from taking advantage of (like you're giving him a free pass).

4 - Are you financially dependent on him? If so, change that.

5 - If you can't stand up to him face to face, write down a list of what changes he needs to make. Insist he reply in writing. The day before you give him the list, see an attorney about how divorce will impact you (the first hour is usually free). Preface your list by acknowledging you spoke to an attorney.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Who's idea was MC? 

There is a lot of variation in experience and training between therapists. It's very difficult to find a therapist with training and experience in infidelity. And you often have to go through several to find a good one on any topic. 

Generally MC focuses on forgiving and moving on (giving each other a second chance) vs fixing the underlying cause of infidelity by the cheater.

Unfortunately, you forgiving is just a short term band aid - and doesn't result in feeling safe long term (that he won't cheat again). Especially, with his continued disrespectful attitude, lack of empathy for your feelings - and his ongoing behavior. 

There is a lot that your husband needs to fix about himself in his role as a husband before you guys can benefit from MC. 

IMO you both need to work on yourselves first in IC .... and then come together later in MC.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Marriage Counsellors are like ducks.

Quack quack quack quack quack.

Now feed me some bread.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Yes your H controls every aspect of your marriage, and what the hell, he's going on vacation without you and the children. Because of low funds and goes by himself. Is BS he makes himself entitled to do as he pleases. You have received good advice already, but if you only recognize and do nothing you will only feel worse for the most part. 

Because you are gaining what is acceptable and what is not. But if you fail to act, will only reenforce your submissive nature and the neediness to keep him at all cost. You H is actually abusing you, but just lacks the physical bruising and beatings. It is you who must act and not wait for him or the counselor. 

And use his assets against him, the home, his money, and his fear of losing it all. Because if there's not enough money to go around, guess he'll be doing overtime and eating ramen soups to support you and his children as he should.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

attheend02 said:


> How is he trying to regain your trust? - I don't see it from your description.
> 
> Find someone who cares about you.


 We have had other issues besides this one. They are more recent and don't involve as deep of a connection as he has with this person, but I think it was on the way to getting there. The two boundaries that I was able to muster up had to do with this situation.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> That makes things more difficult as I was going to suggest having papers drawn up.
> 
> His behavior is intolerable. Visiting relatives is fine as long as they don't include OW but that apparently isn't on their radar.
> 
> ...


This makes sense. I haven't ever thought of contacting a lawyer just to inform myself because our children do make everything more complicated. I am starting to feel the gravity of the situation and it warrants serious considerations like consulting with a lawyer.(<I hope I worded that right)

Thank you for your advice, ConanHub. It is definitely not something I would not have thought of on my own.



MattMatt said:


> You need to have him subjected to a lie detector session and then get a post nuptial agreement created.
> 
> If he will do neither, see a divorce lawyer.


I always thought that nuptial agreements were for finances. I will look into these options. Unfortunately, I don't know that I will ever get the whole truth from him.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

StarFires and notmyjamie,

I am also not going to quote everything you typed, but THANK YOU. THANK YOU so much for your advice and taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. I read your responses and I have thought about them all night/morning. For the past couple of months, I have been writing in a journal trying to sort out everything I am feeling and what you have shared here has helped me to expand more on everything I am going through. I know that it is probably frustrating to read my post and responses. I would have never thought that posting this here on an online forum would do so much for me. I am hoping that all the realizations I have had in the past 24 hours will eventually grow into high self-worth and happiness. I know that sounds cheezy but it is true.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He isnt sorry and doesnt give a damn how you feel. Kick his sorry ass to the curb and divorce.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

How old are your children? What do you do for a living? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lala210 said:


> My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we have just started marriage counseling a couple of months ago. There has been infidelity and a lot of lies, but I am trying to work on forgiving and moving forward. I am struggling with some issues that will, of course, take awhile to be resolved. My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.
> 
> I am having some trouble with boundaries. I had a difficult time with them in the beginning of our counseling because I was basing them on the wrong thing. Just some back story before I get to the actual question I want to ask.
> 
> ...


"Hey husband I've looked up one of my ex boyfriends and have decided that I'm going to go visit him in another state for the weekend alone. Don't even try to tell me that you have a problem with that."

While you're away, call a lawyer, because there's no way this guy has your back about anything.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

lala210 said:


> StarFires and notmyjamie,
> I am also not going to quote everything you typed, but THANK YOU. THANK YOU so much for your advice and taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. I read your responses and I have thought about them all night/morning. For the past couple of months, I have been writing in a journal trying to sort out everything I am feeling and what you have shared here has helped me to expand more on everything I am going through. I know that it is probably frustrating to read my post and responses. I would have never thought that posting this here on an online forum would do so much for me. I am hoping that all the realizations I have had in the past 24 hours will eventually grow into high self-worth and happiness. I know that sounds cheezy but it is true.


You're very welcome, Lala. We'll be the BFFs you never had and happy for the opportunity. But, please don't for one moment feel bad or think reading your posts are frustrating because they're not. You're one of many among us women who had things to learn because there was no one in our life previously to teach us. Like NMJ said she had to learn her lessons, so did I, as do most women. Mine weren't the same as yours, but they did, like yours, have a lot to do with my self-esteem being eroded and although I did have boundaries, I began dating and then living with a guy who tested my boundaries every day. But those tests weren't common, so I was unfamiliar. I only knew how awful he made me feel, which I couldn't explain because I couldn't identify it....and none of it made any sense. 

This was nearly 30 years ago, at a time when abuse was only recognized as physical. So if a woman wasn't physically battered, then the egregious mental and emotional mistreatment wasn't attributed to being abused. And I'd never heard the word "narcissist." It was only 3 months, but I spent that 3 months in a total whirlwind of a tailspin. It was the hugest ball of confusion you could possibly imagine. After knowing him all my life, being the very best of friends, always together or on the phone, and him spoiling me, giving me everything I wanted, and taking around the country whenever I wanted to go. I was 33 when we got together romantically and all of a sudden, I couldn't do anything right, couldn't dress right, couldn't wear my hair right, couldn't be right about anything I said (even when I repeated what he had said), couldn't ask a question right (he'd always tell me "You didn't ask the right question), couldn't.... All of a sudden, there were always criticisms, put-downs, and demands that I do something rather than asking me to do it. I was so confused for those 3 months, always trying to figure out the skein of his constant contradictions, what on earth happened, and where did our great relationship go.

And then one day, while once again trying to rehash/examine/understand yet another of his assaults, something hit me like a tun of bricks. It occurred to me to ask myself why I kept allowing him to put me through this constantly trying to find answers to things that can't possibly be explained. I decided that none of it matters because the only thing that matters is that I.DON'T.LIKE.IT! Then I moved out a couple days later.

I got abuse counseling after that and learned about the broader scope of abuse. It was several years later that the internet came along, and I learned he was the textbook definition of a narcissist. That, along with him being a self-proclaimed male chauvinist, I knew I had dodged a very emotionally- and mentally-lethal bullet. He didn't cheat and didn't play the same games your husband plays, but, like your husband, he tried his best to tear me down. But I refused to let him. I think every woman has to learn these lessons at some point in their life, so I'm happy to share and help if I think I can.

My sister introduced me to this poem when I was 19 years old and I never forgot it. Thank goodness we have the internet.

After A While
by Veronica Shoffstall

After a while, you learn the subtle difference between
holding a hand and chaining a soul;

And you learn that love doesn’t mean leaning
And company doesn’t always mean security;

And you begin to learn that kisses aren’t contracts
And presents aren’t promises;

And you begin to accept your defeats
with your head up and your eyes ahead
with the grace of a woman, not the grief of a child;

And you learn to build all your roads on today
because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain for plans
and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight.

After a while, you learn that even sunshine burns
if you get too much, so you plant your own garden
and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for
someone to bring you flowers;

And you learn that you really can endure.
You really are strong.
You really do have worth.

And you learn.
And you learn.

With every goodbye, you learn.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Robert22205 said:


> *You both should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass.
> 
> It's based on research on couples that experienced infidelity and the 'boundaries' they crossed that made their marriage vulnerable. You'll identify/read about some of the boundaries you should insist your husband apply.*
> 
> ...


Thank you, Robert22205 for taking the time to reply and for your understanding response. You have given me a lot to consider and think about. I appreciate your thoughtful advice. I want to feel safe and I deserve that. I want that from my husband and I hope that it will become a possibility but unfortunately right now its not and I am not sure that it ever will be possible. After reading your's and StarFires' replies, I have decided that the IC first is the best way to go. I have sent an appointment request to a female therapist that I am hoping will help me.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This is brutal. Honey, your H doesn't treasure you at all. He treasures these "old times'" friends from his past, that clearly, he can't relinquish.

Listen to this very carefully. He will never ever ever give up this family he's visiting. There is a bond there that is clearly far less breakable than the bond he formed with you. This isn't to say he doesn't love you, or want to stay married. It just comes with conditions. They are 1st priority, and as long as you stay in 2nd place, he's fine with you in his life.

How does that marriage sound to you? Sounds awful to me. 

I do not think this is salvageable, because he will never give them up, he will only say what he needs to say to keep you at the right distance.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

StarFires,

Thank you for sharing your story because you didn't have to. I really like the poem and I am printing it out and I am going to tape it in the cover of my journal.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> How old are your children? What do you do for a living?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable sharing this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lala210 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable sharing this.


That's cool. People should only share what they feel comfortable with sharing.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Gabriel said:


> This is brutal. Honey, your H doesn't treasure you at all. He treasures these "old times'" friends from his past, that clearly, he can't relinquish.
> 
> Listen to this very carefully. He will never ever ever give up this family he's visiting. There is a bond there that is clearly far less breakable than the bond he formed with you. This isn't to say he doesn't love you, or want to stay married. It just comes with conditions. They are 1st priority, and as long as you stay in 2nd place, he's fine with you in his life.
> 
> ...


I am an optimistic person. I think that it is possible for him to still visit with his family and spend time with them and still respect our marriage and respect me. But I think I will know everything I need to know when I am finally in a place that I can stand up for myself.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> "Hey husband I've looked up one of my ex boyfriends and have decided that I'm going to go visit him in another state for the weekend alone. Don't even try to tell me that you have a problem with that."
> 
> While you're away, call a lawyer, because there's no way this guy has your back about anything.


Oh man. You know, I did actually get this advice from a friend. It sounds tempting to have him feel what I feel, but I'm just not the kind of person who gets down like that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Re: Husband will not set boundaries with someone he cheated with


Then, @lala210, you must set those boundaries for him.

This might include having him served with divorce papers.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

lala210 said:


> I am an optimistic person. I think that it is possible for him to still visit with his family and spend time with them and still respect our marriage and respect me. But I think I will know everything I need to know when I am finally in a place that I can stand up for myself.


His family, or this family? Maybe I'm confused.

I thought there was this life long BFF girl that he crossed the line with a kiss. And he cut that off but talks with her sister, who you don't like him talking to. And that he visits this sister, and their family, who knows his family.

Nobody should be demanded to cut out their own family, but from what you wrote, it sounds like he has made this BFFs family more important than you.

And I'd be shocked if he and the BFF didn't go all the way.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lala210 said:


> Oh man. You know, I did actually get this advice from a friend. It sounds tempting to have him feel what I feel, but I'm just not the kind of person who gets down like that.


Interesting that you’d never make him feel the way he makes you feel... and acts like it’s no big deal.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> Then, @lala210, you must set those boundaries for him.
> 
> This might include having him served with divorce papers.


I'm feeling sad that this may be a possibility. I think I was/am being naive and I don't want to spend another 14-15 years like this.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Gabriel said:


> His family, or this family? Maybe I'm confused.
> 
> I thought there was this life long BFF girl that he crossed the line with a kiss. And he cut that off but talks with her sister, who you don't like him talking to. And that he visits this sister, and their family, who knows his family.
> 
> ...


Okay. My husband's female, ex-best friend and her sister are both best friends with my husband's cousin. So, the sisters are always around his family.

I don't think they are life long BFFs. They grew up around each other because of his cousin. As they got older, like later years of high school, they started liking each other and said they were BFFs even though it was more than a friendship.

I hope that cleared it up. And I would never ask him to cut off any member of his family. Never.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Interesting that you’d never make him feel the way he makes you feel... and acts like it’s no big deal.


I'd like to respond, but I don't understand the last part. Are you saying that I am acting like it's no big deal? If so, are you referring to the situation or the fact that I don't want to make him feel how I've felt?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

lala210 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable sharing this.


I asked how old your children are and what you do for a living to get an idea of how able you are to support yourself and how far along you are in child rearing. It's more difficult to give you helpful answers when we don't know your situation. Are you children toddlers? Do you have a baby? Are they out of the house? Do you make enough money to support yourself or do you have the education to get a well enough paying job to support yourself and your children?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

StarFires said:


> Since you stayed instead of leaving when he gave you this stupid ultimatum, you showed him a bunch of things, namely:
> 
> 1. That you are desperate to keep him;
> 2. That he means more to you than you mean to yourself;
> ...


Excellent post. I'm going to quote this and add it to my Treasure Chest thread.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Adelais said:


> Excellent post. I'm going to quote this and add it to my Treasure Chest thread.


Thanks so much, I'm flattered. 
What is a Treasure Chest thread?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@lala210 You don't have to tell him that you had a consultation with a lawyer. Keep that knowledge as a gift for yourself. Knowledge is power.

I spoke with 2 lawyers several years ago, and kept it to myself. Some of my fear diminished as a result, and I also had to face some harsh realities about what life after divorce would be like. The government will make sure you get 50% of everything, including retirement and investments. He will have to finance some education to get you ready for a job in your field if you previously worked in a profession you would like to go back to.

See a couple of lawyers. You don't have to draw up any papers, just let what you learn sink in. It will give you courage and strength.

When you choose which lawyers to speak with, choose the baddest meanest shark lawyers in town. He won't be able to use them should you eventually divorce, because they have already spoken with you, and it will be in their records.

I agree that you need to stop seeing the MC, and continue with your IC. You could tell him to get an IC for himself. It will probably be a waste of money though, since he won't be open with them. When he sees that you are getting stronger and that he is going to lose you he might decide to get honest, but don't count on it.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

StarFires said:


> Thanks so much, I'm flattered.
> What is a Treasure Chest thread?


It is the name of my thread where I post things/quotes that I don't want to get lost in the deep chasm of TAM ancient threads.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lala210 said:


> I'd like to respond, but I don't understand the last part. Are you saying that I am acting like it's no big deal? If so, are you referring to the situation or the fact that I don't want to make him feel how I've felt?


He's acting like it's no big deal that he re-triggered you about coming into contact with his affair partner or those around his affair partner and thought it was no big deal.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@lala210 Don't believe for one second that your husband and his affair partner only "made out once." Do you know any adults who have known each other for years and they only make out? What is stopping them from keeping going? Nothing!!! It is not like they are virgins or teenagers.

The next time he claims that they only made out, start laughing and tell him that the next thing he is going to say is that Santa Clause is real and lives with Mrs. Santa Clause at the North Pole with all their elves and reindeer!

Come on, you're not stupid. He is stupid if he thinks that anyone would believe his story.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

lala210 said:


> Okay. My husband's female, ex-best friend and her sister are both best friends with my husband's cousin. So, the sisters are always around his family.
> 
> I don't think they are life long BFFs. They grew up around each other because of his cousin. As they got older, like later years of high school, they started liking each other and said they were BFFs even though it was more than a friendship.
> 
> I hope that cleared it up. And I would never ask him to cut off any member of his family. Never.


Thanks, yes, that is what I understood. So, right, you aren't going to forbid him from seeing family, and you can't stop his family from having these girls around.

Why is he going to see family without you, though? Guessing it's because he doesn't want you around these girls. Next time, you should insist on being there. Awkward or not, if you are going to stay in this marriage, you need to piss on your tree. Know what I mean?

Otherwise, just let him go and get a divorce. He's too enamored with these girls - probably has had crushes on them for many years and gets giddy just being around them.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> I asked how old your children are and what you do for a living to get an idea of how able you are to support yourself and how far along you are in child rearing. It's more difficult to give you helpful answers when we don't know your situation. Are you children toddlers? Do you have a baby? Are they out of the house? Do you make enough money to support yourself or do you have the education to get a well enough paying job to support yourself and your children?


Okay, Cynthia. I understand. I apologize. I've never used a forum like this for anything before so I'm giving things the immediate paranoid side eye. I guess I don't mind giving non-specific information though. We have 3 children. They are middle school aged and younger. No babies or toddlers. I have graduated from college, but I have been a stay-at-home mother since my oldest was born. I think I may have a challenge with getting back into the work force after not working for so long. I'm proud to say that in the past couple of days, I did apply to some part-time/as needed positions that were being advertised locally and I got an interview pretty quickly so hopefully I can get my foot in the door and work while my children are at school.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Adelais said:


> @lala210
> *I agree that you need to stop seeing the MC, and continue with your IC. You could tell him to get an IC for himself. It will probably be a waste of money though, since he won't be open with them. When he sees that you are getting stronger and that he is going to lose you he might decide to get honest, but don't count on it.*


Thank you for your advice. I agree that IC is the way to go for now. I was told by the MC that he is not ready to be truthful about anything and I see that.


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## lala210 (Nov 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> He's acting like it's no big deal that he re-triggered you about coming into contact with his affair partner or those around his affair partner and thought it was no big deal.


Thanks for clearing that up. Everyone in his family is used to them being around all the time. The type of person that I am, I am worried about how difficult it is going to be for him to be respectful and still hang out with his family, but lately I've been leaning more towards - that is not my problem and he got himself into this position by making the choices he made. You are right though, anything that has to do with her "is not a big deal and that's just how it is" and I don't think that is okay.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

lala210 said:


> Okay, Cynthia. I understand. I apologize. I've never used a forum like this for anything before so I'm giving things the immediate paranoid side eye. I guess I don't mind giving non-specific information though. We have 3 children. They are middle school aged and younger. No babies or toddlers. I have graduated from college, but I have been a stay-at-home mother since my oldest was born. I think I may have a challenge with getting back into the work force after not working for so long. I'm proud to say that in the past couple of days, I did apply to some part-time/as needed positions that were being advertised locally and I got an interview pretty quickly so hopefully I can get my foot in the door and work while my children are at school.


Perfectly understandable. That's why I explained my reasons for asking. :smile2:

You may not think you have much to offer after having been out of the workforce for so long, but getting back to work and perhaps taking a quarter at school for refresher courses would be a good way to get back in. In my state, there are lots of options for state schools that have online campuses. Maybe even continuing education might be helpful. Anything that makes your resume look fresh.

I'm impressed that you are already looking for something part time. That will give you a boost of confidence and make you less reliant on your husband. That can have a profound psychological impact on him when he sees that you are not "stuck" with him and have other options. Sometimes that will wake someone up, although he seems quite deluded.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

lala210 said:


> My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.


You mean YOU have agreed to re-invest in him even though he's* proven* himself - over and over and over and over and over and over - to be a seasoned *liar and cheater*. All he's got to do is appease you by appearing to follow whatever rules you've set down - doing time in some therapist's office with you an hour a week and having no activity in his phone or emails and he's in like Flynn and can avoid divorce court. Sweet deal - for HIM.

You want to see a clean phone from him from now on? You'll see one. That's what burner phones are for - so he can still conduct his monkey business on the sly while _*you're*_ monitoring his 'real' phone. Or, like many serial cheaters (and that's what he IS, Lala), he's probably got hidden chat apps that he uses but you can't see them when you're looking on his phone. It's incredibly easy for cheaters to do what they do and get away with it, now. Unbelievably easy.


> I found out that he had made out with her (during our marriage) and for whatever reason it didn't go any further than that. As far as I know now, that is the only time that he physically cheated on me with her, but I am well aware that there is probably more times and I will never really know unless he or she tells me.


You honestly BELIEVE that - from a seasoned liar and serial cheater? That they "only" kissed - which is the number ONE lie all cheaters tell? I mean....*really*?


> Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member?


It's unrealistic of you to TRUST that a serial cheater *won't *cheat on you again. _*That's *_what's unrealistic here. You've chosen to ignore all the red flags over the years and this is where it's gotten you - cheated on two times - that you *know* of - but the numbers are likely A LOT higher. Look, the truth is, you don't catch them every time they cheat on you. Do you honestly think that the "only" two times he's ever cheated on you, you just happened to find out about BOTH of them? Not likely.

This isn't the last time he'll cheat on you. Far from it. But I DO know that he's going to get a lot more slippery in the future so you don't catch him again. Because when you catch him and the rules and boundaries get put into place, you really cramp his style and he has to work SO much harder to get away with the **** he was getting away with before you caught him. So he has a vested interest in not getting caught again and is going to work _that_ much harder to insure he doesn't. But you'll likely mistake that as him suddenly COMPLETELY "changing" and becoming a trustworthy husband. Over the years when I've seen this happen, it always ends up the same - the wife eventually finds out she's been snookered - AGAIN - and he never stopped his secret activities.

He's completely *REMORSELESS*, Lala. Serial cheaters always are; that's what allows them to keep doing what they do and not giving a rat's ass about who they're hurting in order to do it.

You _will_ catch him again. You'll see.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*He's wanting to have his cake and eat it too!

If you're happy with that scenario, then go for it!

Otherwise, I'm confident that you know what the drill is to extract yourself from this lechery!*


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is not up to you to establish trust with a cheater. It is up to the cheater to establish, over a lengthy period of time, that he has become trustworthy. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lala210 said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. Everyone in his family is used to them being around all the time. The type of person that I am, I am worried about how difficult it is going to be for him to be respectful and still hang out with his family, but lately I've been leaning more towards - that is not my problem and he got himself into this position by making the choices he made. You are right though, anything that has to do with her "is not a big deal and that's just how it is" and I don't think that is okay.


"Husband, you caused this mess and it's up to you to figure it out. If you think I'm going to have your affair continually rubbed in my face and stay married to you, think again. I'm not going to set your boundaries for you, and I'm not going to solve this for you because you're the one that created the problem."


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

lala210 said:


> Okay, Cynthia. I understand. I apologize. I've never used a forum like this for anything before so I'm giving things the immediate paranoid side eye. I guess I don't mind giving non-specific information though. We have 3 children. They are middle school aged and younger. No babies or toddlers. I have graduated from college, but* I have been a stay-at-home mother* since my oldest was born. I think I may have a challenge with getting back into the work force after not working for so long. I'm proud to say that in the past couple of days, I did apply to some part-time/as needed positions that were being advertised locally and I got an interview pretty quickly so hopefully I can get my foot in the door and work while my children are at school.


I cringed when Cynthia asked. I was tempted to ask also, but I was sure I already knew the answer. It was very telling in your post. I just didn't want to see it specifically stated in writing lol. To me, being a SAHM is the absolutely worst thing women do to themselves. Your story is the classic reason why.

But it's not enough to get a part-time job. There are lots of realizations you've had to make, and I know that must be extremely difficult for you. Based on those realizations, you now know there are some changes and adjustments you have to make, and I know those must be very hard for you too. But this one thing - this all-important one thing - might be the hardest yet. You've been a SAHM a long time. Your patterns and thought-processes are borne of your devotion to your family, your children, your husband, and home. You've done your best and been the best wife, mom, and homemaker you can be. 

But it's time to think of all those things differently. By going to work, you're not abandoning your children. You're not neglecting them. You're not failing in your love, devotion, or responsibility to them. Nor are you deserting your effort, hope and desire to be there for them whenever they need you.

You will still be all those things, but you have to look at it in a different way. You and they both have to adjust to life being a little different. And you may need to give them more responsibility.

With middle schoolers in the house, that means you have teenagers, and teenagers are old enough to come home from school on their own and old enough to look out for the younger ones. It would only be for an hour or two until you get home from work. They can also prepare themselves an afternoon snack, or get dinner started until you arrive, or dinner into the oven or microwave that you prepared the night before. Some people cook 2 or 3 meals on the weekend and pop them into the freezer so the kids (or dad) can just microwave and enjoy.

They are also old enough to assume at least some of the household chores you normally do, especially laundry, vacuuming, making their own beds, and cleaning the kitchen and bathrooms. One 10-20 minute chore after school is not uncommon and will groom them for their own independence in caring for themselves, their siblings, and their home. When I was 12 and 13, my job each evening was to hand wash (with scrub board) my clothes, my youngest sister's clothes, and my nephew's clothes (he's only a year and half younger than me and grew up with us) for school the next day. I had to do this every night (for 2 years) and it wasn't just our pants and shirts but included our underwear and socks too because our washer broke, and mom didn't have the money to fix it or buy a new one. Some nights, my mom would throw in one or two items of her own. I didn't fret about it and quickly learned to quite enjoy it. I wanted the three of us to sparkle at school every day and remember once noticing I didn't get the grass stains out of the knees of my nephew's pants. So I told him to be sure to always let me know if he got a stain on his clothes, so he always pointed them out after that. It made doing laundry important to me for the rest of my life, and there is no stain I'm not able to find a way to remove. To boot, I had eczema. Hot water and laundry detergent (especially Tide) are major irritants. So I scrubbed and itched and scratched my hands raw, but I never told my mom. Having that responsibility grew me up in some ways.

Whatever changes and adjustments you and the kids have to make, it will hardly harm your children. Those changes and adjustments simply have to be made. People make it by doing what they have to do. The kids will probably grumble, but it will teach them valuable lessons. 

It is imperative of you to become financially independent. You can only do that by gaining full-time employment.


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