# Staying together after spouse cheats



## pilotranger

Hello everyone,

I want to get some opinions out there on couples who stay together (mainly for the sake of the children) after a spouse was caught cheating. There's probably 4 routes a couple can take:

1. Divorce

2. Counseling to try and work it out

3. Stay together for the children and basically have a non-emotional and non-physical marriage.

4. Divorce later once the children are older (18+).

I just found out my wife has been cheating with a former co-worker (also married) for the past 2 years. Texting, Sexting, dirty talk, and I found condoms in her briefcase. So I've been pretty numb the past 24 hours, can't sleep, eat or do anything.

Based on her emails and texts, she's in love with this SOB and told him she would leave me, but not been able to do it. Maybe having second thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, she's not going to fall in love with me again, she's beyond the turning point. Honestly, I think I am too. 

It's like this is a person I don't even know. Her family and she is very devout Catholic and actually demanded that I convert before we get married. How's that for irony?! I'm totally blindsided by the fact she is doing this, some of the things she said to him (i.e things she would do to him in the bedroom, when she would not even do those things on me in our relationship). 

I know it would be miserable to stay together for the kids, and they'll be traumatized no matter what. There's really no good time to tell them (now or later).

Has anyone have experience with staying together for the kids, then when they grow to be young adults, then divorce?

Sorry for the rant.

Thanks,
pilotranger


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## LongWalk

Sorry you're here, Pilot.

How long were you married?
How old are your children?
Is your wife remorseful?
Doesn't seem that she has admitted to fornicating, but why would two grown ups carry on an emotional affair for so long? They've been screwing a lot. Maybe the two of them have had more intercourse than the two of you. Did she cut you off sexually? Do you think you ate her out or had sex with her while his semen was fresh?

From what you write it sounds like you are done.

File for divorce.

Frank Zappa wrote a song about Catholic girls.


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## karole

Have you exposed the affair to the OM's wife?if not, that should be your first step.


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## pilotranger

LongWalk said:


> Sorry you're here, Pilot.
> 
> How long were you married?
> How old are your children?
> Is your wife remorseful?
> Doesn't seem that she has admitted to fornicating, but why would two grown ups carry on an emotional affair for so long? They've been screwing a lot. Maybe the two of them have had more intercourse than the two of you. Did she cut you off sexually? Do you think you ate her out or had sex with her while his semen was fresh?
> 
> From what you write it sounds like you are done.
> 
> File for divorce.
> 
> Frank Zappa wrote a song about Catholic girls.


My childredn are 15, 13 and 8 years old.

They're both telling each other how much they love each other and agonize they can't see or touch each other, etc. daily.

Yes, she stopped having sex with me consistently in 2013, when the peak of their sexting and texting occurred. To me, the condoms is the smoking gun, along with her comments about 69 and sucking his package, etc.

In one of their emails, they talk about "hookie day" from their work on some Fridays.

Damn, I'm just dumbfounded how this could happen.


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## pilotranger

karole said:


> Have you exposed the affair to the OM's wife?if not, that should be your first step.


I've thought about it, but don't know where they live. I know what he looks like based on the pics they send. And I saw them in church today, which is pathetic. The reason why she always wants to go to the Saturday 5pm mass is so they can see each other (as they referenced in their emails).


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## chaos

You are assuming that she is going to want to stay married to you, even while having affair(s), and that is dangerous thinking. She can file for divorce at any time of her liking and you'll be totally unprepared. 

If you are sure that you do not want a shot at marital reconciliation then your best bet is to not out her affair (if that is still possible) and without her suspecting, arm yourself by developing a divorce strategy that will give you the best shot at coming out ahead. I'll leave you a quote from Sun Tzu:



> "*Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."*


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## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I want to get some opinions out there on couples who stay together (mainly for the sake of the children) after a spouse was caught cheating. There's probably 4 routes a couple can take:
> 
> 1. Divorce
> 
> 2. Counseling to try and work it out
> 
> 3. Stay together for the children and basically have a non-emotional and non-physical marriage.
> 
> 4. Divorce later once the children are older (18+).
> 
> I just found out my wife has been cheating with a former co-worker (also married) for the past 2 years. Texting, Sexting, dirty talk, and I found condoms in her briefcase. So I've been pretty numb the past 24 hours, can't sleep, eat or do anything.
> 
> Based on her emails and texts, she's in love with this SOB and told him she would leave me, but not been able to do it. Maybe having second thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, she's not going to fall in love with me again, she's beyond the turning point. Honestly, I think I am too.
> 
> It's like this is a person I don't even know. Her family and she is very devout Catholic and actually demanded that I convert before we get married. How's that for irony?! I'm totally blindsided by the fact she is doing this, some of the things she said to him (i.e things she would do to him in the bedroom, when she would not even do those things on me in our relationship).
> 
> I know it would be miserable to stay together for the kids, and they'll be traumatized no matter what. There's really no good time to tell them (now or later).
> 
> Has anyone have experience with staying together for the kids, then when they grow to be young adults, then divorce?
> 
> Sorry for the rant.
> 
> Thanks,
> pilotranger


Well, the first question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not you _can_ continue in your marriage -- in any capacity -- in light of your wife's affair. Most men (something like 80+ percent) opt for divorce upon discovering their wives in a physical affair.

Having said ^that^, if you do decide that you want to stay in your marriage (and, given what you'd contributed in your previous thread, I honestly can't see how you would), it's important to realize that *you cannot reconcile on your own.* If your wife is as far gone and detached from you and your marriage as you say, I can't see her agreeing to counseling. At best she might go along w/ it, but only to keep you sated while she continues in her affair w/ OM, possibly while planning her exit.

Have you confronted yet? Either way, be sure to take pics, make copies, etc of all evidence and back it all up in a couple of places, one of them offsite.

And w/ respect to divorcing now vs later... obviously that's your decision to make, and I understand the reasoning behind the latter (i.e. kids), but ask yourself this -- do you want your children to take their lessons w/ respect to what a healthy marriage should look like from two adults who show no concern or affection for each each while living (or, rather, simply _existing_) separately within the same house?


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## pilotranger

GusPolinski said:


> Well, the first question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not you _can_ continue in your marriage -- in any capacity -- in light of your wife's affair. Most men (something like 80+ percent) opt for divorce upon discovering their wives in a physical affair.
> 
> Having said ^that^, if you do decide that you want to stay in your marriage (and, given what you'd contributed in your previous thread, I honestly can't see how you would), it's important to realize that *you cannot reconcile on your own.* If your wife is as far gone and detached from you and your marriage as you say, I can't see her agreeing to counseling. At best she might go along w/ it, but only to keep you sated while she continues in her affair w/ OM, possibly while planning her exit.
> 
> Have you confronted yet? Either way, be sure to take pics, make copies, etc of all evidence and back it all up in a couple of places, one of them offsite.
> 
> And w/ respect to divorcing now vs later... obviously that's your decision to make, and I understand the reasoning behind the latter (i.e. kids), but ask yourself this -- do you want your children to take their lessons w/ respect to what a healthy marriage should look like from two adults who show no concern or affection for each each while living (or, rather, simply _existing_) separately within the same house?


I do want to continue in the marriage and try to work it out, but I know reality may not allow it. She's not open to counseling yet, she's kind of stone walling. She drafted an email (not sure if it was sent to him yet) and it sounded like a good bye letter to him and I've not seen any sexting or emails since then (mid-November).

I've forwarded all the emails and sexting to my personal email account and stored safely.

Feels like I've been living with a stranger for the last 3 or 4 years.


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## pilotranger

GusPolinski said:


> Well, the first question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not you _can_ continue in your marriage -- in any capacity -- in light of your wife's affair. Most men (something like 80+ percent) opt for divorce upon discovering their wives in a physical affair.
> 
> Having said ^that^, if you do decide that you want to stay in your marriage (and, given what you'd contributed in your previous thread, I honestly can't see how you would), it's important to realize that *you cannot reconcile on your own.* If your wife is as far gone and detached from you and your marriage as you say, I can't see her agreeing to counseling. At best she might go along w/ it, but only to keep you sated while she continues in her affair w/ OM, possibly while planning her exit.
> 
> Have you confronted yet? Either way, be sure to take pics, make copies, etc of all evidence and back it all up in a couple of places, one of them offsite.
> 
> And w/ respect to divorcing now vs later... obviously that's your decision to make, and I understand the reasoning behind the latter (i.e. kids), but ask yourself this -- do you want your children to take their lessons w/ respect to what a healthy marriage should look like from two adults who show no concern or affection for each each while living (or, rather, simply _existing_) separately within the same house?


I've confronted last month, but she says she just networks with the guy for career opportunities, etc.

But I found the evidence last night. Have not confronted since.


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## pilotranger

chaos said:


> You are assuming that she is going to want to stay married to you, even while having affair(s), and that is dangerous thinking. She can file for divorce at any time of her liking and you'll be totally unprepared.
> 
> If you are sure that you do not want a shot at marital reconciliation then your best bet is to not out her affair (if that is still possible) and without her suspecting, arm yourself by developing a divorce strategy that will give you the best shot at coming out ahead. I'll leave you a quote from Sun Tzu:


I've thought about doing what you're suggesting, be subtle about it and then be in a position of strength. I'm just thinking how this is going to affect my kids emotionally.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> Her family and she is very devout Catholic and actually demanded that I convert before we get married. How's that for irony?!


This is not an irony at all. Catholics sin like anyone else. Her religion, once she snaps out of the fog of her affair, can help a lot for recovery.


pilotranger said:


> I want to get some opinions out there on couples who stay together (mainly for the sake of the children) after a spouse was caught cheating. There's probably 4 routes a couple can take:


There are very few people here on TAM who have stayed together after an affair. Most who do are doing well and leave. 

I’m on who stayed and recovered. Though we did divorce 10 years later over things not related to his affairs. 

I’m going to address your list out of order.


pilotranger said:


> 3. Stay together for the children and basically have a non-emotional and non-physical marriage.
> 
> 4. Divorce later once the children are older (18+).


3 & 4 are so closely related that I’m lumping them together. Do not stay in a marriage only because of your children.

Why? You will be teaching your children that this is what marriage is, either non-emotional/physical or just something you tolerate until the children are 18+. Is this really the lesson you want to teach your children? Better to teach them how people take responsibility for their own healthy lives.

Also, when your children find out that you spend decades (or so ) of you life in an unhappy marriage JUST FOR THEM, what do you think will go through their minds? “Don’t blame me for your bad choices and unhappiness.” They are not going to thankful and for yourself sacrifice. Nope… it can make them feel guilty and that will drive them away from you.

A divorce with parents who co-parent well is much better than go grow up in an family with cold, angry parents.



pilotranger said:


> 2. Counseling to try and work it out
> 1. Divorce [if you cannot work it out]


This is the route. You need to know what you want to do. Counseling and other work can help you figure that out. There are steps and at each step, you access and decide if you want to go on to the next one or divorce.

There is a good book that can help you thought this. It’s a quick read “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley. You will get a lot of input here on TAM, but the book lays it out in a logical manner and explains a lot. The book and TAM are a very good combination.
Just briefly.. 

Have you confronted her?

Is the OM (other man) married?

The first thing you need to do is to end the affair. To do this you confront her and let her know you know.

She has to write the OM a no contact letter. The book give the sample letter and why each thing is in it and why things like her apologizing to him is not acceptable/allowed. She cannot talk to him to end the affair because she will not end it if she does. So she writes the letter and you send it registered mail with her right there with you.

If the co-worker were still working with her, she would have to quit. She cannot ever see him again.

You then expose the affair. Contact the OM’s wife, tell her and give her the evidence you have. This will lead to him dropping his wife like a hot potato to save his marriage. Few men who cheat ever intend to leave their wives. They just tell their affair partner that to suck her in and use her. So he will be busy saving his marriage. And his wife will make sure that he does not contact your wife. A good thing to do is to give her a copy of the “Surviving an Affair” book. 
Then expose the affair to her parents and siblings. Ask them for their support in saving your marriage. Do not do it to humiliate or punish her. The purpose is to get her to give up the affair and work on your marriage. You can expose to your family but they will probably hate her forever if you do. Expose to one or two of her closest friends and ask for their help.

But the book has a lot more so I really suggest you read it.


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## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> I do want to continue in the marriage and try to work it out, but I know reality may not allow it. She's not open to counseling yet, she's kind of stone walling. She drafted an email (not sure if it was sent to him yet) and it sounded like a good bye letter to him and I've not seen any sexting or emails since then (mid-November).
> 
> I've forwarded all the emails and sexting to my personal email account and stored safely.
> 
> Feels like I've been living with a stranger for the last 3 or 4 years.


Make sure that you change the password to your personal e-mail account. Make sure that it's something fairly complex i.e. at least 8 characters long and at least one lowercase letter, uppercase letter, number, symbol, etc.

You'll also want to stash everything into a special folder that won't be immediately accessible to her should she check your e-mail via your smartphone, tablet, etc.

And, while you're at it, you should also change the passwords and/or screen lock codes on any laptops, smartphones, tablets, etc that you happen to use. Also remove your e-mail account and all e-mails from any shared devices.


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## EleGirl

LongWalk said:


> Frank Zappa wrote a song about Catholic girls.


Yes because all Catholic girls are slvts and [email protected], right? 

I'm a Catholic girl as are my 4 sisters, my daughter and all my nieces (dozens of them). I really do not think this kind of stereo typing is very funny.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I've thought about it, but don't know where they live. I know what he looks like based on the pics they send. And I saw them in church today, which is pathetic. The reason why she always wants to go to the Saturday 5pm mass is so they can see each other (as they referenced in their emails).


Where is his wife when he's in church? You could find out everything you need to know about him if you hire a PI to follow him home after church. Or to just get his license plate number.

Shoot you could get it.. but if you do don't let her or him see you doing it.


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## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> I've thought about it, but don't know where they live. I know what he looks like based on the pics they send. And I saw them in church today, which is pathetic. The reason why she always wants to go to the Saturday 5pm mass is so they can see each other (as they referenced in their emails).


What do you know about OM? If you know his first and last name, as well as that of his wife, you make be able to find his address via your county's tax appraisal district website.

And yes, definitely expose the affair to OM's wife. Whether you do this before or after you confront your wife will be a matter of debate (for example, if you confront your wife first, she'll turn around and warn OM, which will give him time to beat you to the punch and convince his wife that you're full of sh*t), but the bottom line is that she deserves to know that her husband has been stepping out on her.


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## arbitrator

The kids are close enough to 18 that D should be your primary option. Ergo1) Gather your evidence and start your search for a good family attorney who has a reputation for being a literal piranha in the courtroom. (2) Demand possession of the domicile as well as custody of the kids, getting as much child support from her that you can. (3) notify her OM's wife and alert her as to the existence of and evidence of the affair. (4) Just as soon as your W is ordered to vacate the house, change the locks and any alarm codes. (5) get yourself a medical checkup, including tests for STD's.

Sorry this is happening to you, but I'm glad that you found us her at TAM!


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## Laurel

If you really want to save this marriage, you need to be willing to lose it. She is lost in the fog of the affair, and the only thing that might wake her up is the threat of losing you. Her reaction when this all blows up will tell you whether or not you have something to save. Putting up with her BS and staying for the kids will do nothing but bring misery to all. 

Expose to the OM's wife (without telling your wife you are doing this). And then when you confront your wife, present her with divorce papers. And be dead serious about it. Affairs thrive in secrecy and fantasy. Nothing throws cold water on that more than exposure. Most cheating men are really not interested in leaving their wives. Once his wife knows what he has been doing, he will probably drop your wife like a hot potato and throw her under the bus in order to save his own marriage. You have a golden opportunity here to avoid the mistakes that so many of us made.


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## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Well, the first question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not you _can_ continue in your marriage -- in any capacity -- in light of your wife's affair. Most men (something like 80+ percent) opt for divorce upon discovering their wives in a physical affair.


That statistic is suspect as there are many studies and they show numbers all over the place. the only thing that is consistent is that most betrayed women chose recover their marriage and fewer men make this choice.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I do want to continue in the marriage and try to work it out, but I know reality may not allow it. She's not open to counseling yet, she's kind of stone walling. She drafted an email (not sure if it was sent to him yet) and it sounded like a good bye letter to him and I've not seen any sexting or emails since then (mid-November).


Even if she sends that letter, you need to insist that she and you send the letter in that book. Why? Because is puts you first and her marriage first and it admits that she did something horrible to harm you and her family. She has to own up to it and the letter is a state that she has.


pilotranger said:


> I've forwarded all the emails and sexting to my personal email account and stored safely.


Good!


pilotranger said:


> Feels like I've been living with a stranger for the last 3 or 4 years.


No kidding.


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## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> That statistic is suspect as there are many studies and they show numbers all over the place. the only thing that is consistent is that most betrayed women chose recover their marriage and fewer men make this choice.


Fair enough. And, to be clear, it wasn't my intent to sway PR in either direction, but rather to let him know that he shouldn't feel any shame should he decide that he'd prefer divorce over either of the other options that he cited in his initial post.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I've confronted last month, but she says she just networks with the guy for career opportunities, etc.
> 
> But I found the evidence last night. Have not confronted since.


Her 'just' networking with him is unacceptable. She has to go to no contact. 

Everytime she has contact with him, her body produced hormones like oxytocin, dopamine, etc,.. that keep her bonded to him.

Love like what she is calling love is not an emotion. It's the body producing brain chemicals every time she sees him, hears from him, hears his voice, etc. Complete no contact is needed to stop this.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I've thought about doing what you're suggesting, be subtle about it and then be in a position of strength. I'm just thinking how this is going to affect my kids emotionally.


What benefits do you think that going to a lawyer and planning a surprise divorce will give you? It's a serious question.


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## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Damn, I'm just dumbfounded how this could happen.


By the way, if you're looking to gain some insight into ^this^, I'd recommend the following books...

Amazon.com - No More Mister Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover

Amazon.com - The Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay


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## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Fair enough. And, to be clear, it wasn't my intent to sway PR in either direction, but rather to let him know that he shouldn't feel any shame should he decide that he'd prefer divorce over either of the other options that he cited in his initial post.


I agree that if he choses divorce that he should not feel any shame. Nor should do stay in a marriage only for his children.

There is a process that a person can go through to make the decision, it's one that has clear steps and leads a person so that when the time comes, the decision is very clear. There will be no seconding guessing of things like should have tired harder. I think it's important for a person to do this. 

Of course we can all give whatever input we feel is appropriate and the OP can pick and chose what resonates to him.


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## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> By the way, if you're looking to gain some insight into ^this^, I'd recommend the following books...
> 
> Amazon.com - No More Mister Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover
> 
> Amazon.com - The Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay


Well, that's not the only way it can happen.


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## pilotranger

From what I saw today, his wife was at the end of the row and their kids were in between them.


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## pilotranger

EleGirl said:


> I agree that if he choses divorce that he should not feel any shame. Nor should do stay in a marriage only for his children.
> 
> There is a process that a person can go through to make the decision, it's one that has clear steps and leads a person so that when the time comes, the decision is very clear. There will be no seconding guessing of things like should have tired harder. I think it's important for a person to do this.
> 
> Of course we can all give whatever input we feel is appropriate and the OP can pick and chose what resonates to him.


Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> From what I saw today, his wife was at the end of the row and their kids were in between them.


And your wife was there to see him too?

Oh yea, his wife needs to know.


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## pilotranger

EleGirl said:


> And your wife was there to see him too?
> 
> Oh yea, his wife needs to know.



Yes, my wife was there. I glanced over at my wife and at one point saw her blatantly look at him from afar.

Here's what I might do:

1. Contact a divorce attorney to get a consulation and be prepared to file if necessary

2. Let the OM's wife know (with evidence)

3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.


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## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


Not at all. I think it takes a much stronger man worth through this and rebuild. It's much easier to just cut and run. I understand why some do, but it's easier.

I know many men who have stayed in their marriages after they found out about their wife's affair. They worked together with their wives and rebuilt to have a stronger marriage than before. 
I know a lot of women who did this too and are extremely happy. Many of these couples have been together post affair for decades now and very glad that they did.

I am not trying to sway you in any way except that you do this carefully so that when you make your decision, you know what you did all that could have. If you end up divorcing, then at least you have that peace of mind. If you end up staying and building a strong marriage out of this...this good for you. You and your children win.


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## Nucking Futs

pilotranger said:


> Yes, my wife was there. I glanced over at my wife and at one point saw her blatantly look at him from afar.
> 
> Here's what I might do:
> 
> 1. Contact a divorce attorney to get a consulation and be prepared to file if necessary
> 
> 2. Let the OM's wife know (with evidence)
> 
> 3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.


I like it, you have the steps in the correct order. One modification I would make would be to actually file and provide OMW the evidence on the day your wife is served. Maximum shock value.


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## pilotranger

Laurel said:


> If you really want to save this marriage, you need to be willing to lose it. She is lost in the fog of the affair, and the only thing that might wake her up is the threat of losing you. Her reaction when this all blows up will tell you whether or not you have something to save. Putting up with her BS and staying for the kids will do nothing but bring misery to all.
> 
> Expose to the OM's wife (without telling your wife you are doing this). And then when you confront your wife, present her with divorce papers. And be dead serious about it. Affairs thrive in secrecy and fantasy. Nothing throws cold water on that more than exposure. Most cheating men are really not interested in leaving their wives. Once his wife knows what he has been doing, he will probably drop your wife like a hot potato and throw her under the bus in order to save his own marriage. You have a golden opportunity here to avoid the mistakes that so many of us made.


So she told me in March (after our big blow up), we're different people now and not sure if we can get that intimacy back, etc.

Is that just "lost in the fog of the affair" or is that legit?


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## pilotranger

Nucking Futs said:


> I like it, you have the steps in the correct order. One modification I would make would be to actually file and provide OMW the evidence on the day your wife is served. Maximum shock value.


I would add another step to that is to tell her family (both parents deceased), but brothers and sisters would be FLOORED. They might even disown her and have nothing to do with her. That's how much they value "true family values" and the sanctity of marriage.


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## Laurel

pilotranger said:


> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


Not at all. But the only way reconciliation can work is if BOTH parties are fully invested in it. The affair needs to be completely over. The WS needs to fully realize what they have done and want to rectify it. Your wife doesn't appear to be at this point yet - and that is the purpose of blowing up the affair and making her realize exactly what she is about to lose. 

P.S. I am in a successful reconciliation - and we are happier than we have ever been now, even at the beginning. I never expected this would happen. I didn't know about TAM until a couple months after D-Day (and I really wish I found found TAM a year earlier, I could have saved myself a year of misery). Anyway, I found irrefutable proof he was cheating, moved out and told him I was divorcing him (because in my mind cheating was an unforgivable offense). This shocked him into completely changing, and in turn, made me consider giving him another chance.


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## pilotranger

Laurel said:


> Not at all. But the only way reconciliation can work is if BOTH parties are fully invested in it. The affair needs to be completely over. The WS needs to fully realize what they have done and want to rectify it. Your wife doesn't appear to be at this point yet - and that is the purpose of blowing up the affair and making her realize exactly what she is about to lose.
> 
> P.S. I am in a successful reconciliation - and we are happier than we have ever been now, even at the beginning. I never expected this would happen. I didn't know about TAM until a couple months after D-Day (and I really wish I found found TAM a year earlier, I could have saved myself a year of misery). Anyway, I found irrefutable proof he was cheating, moved out and told him I was divorcing him (because in my mind cheating was an unforgivable offense). This shocked him into completely changing, and in turn, made me consider giving him another chance.


In a letter she drafted (I'm not sure if she sent it), it sounds like she might have ended it (using past tense in her description and feelings, etc). So what if she has ended it and is SLOWLY trying to reconcile?


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## Laurel

pilotranger said:


> So she told me in March (after our big blow up), we're different people now and not sure if we can get that intimacy back, etc.
> 
> Is that just "lost in the fog of the affair" or is that legit?


She's still lost in the fog. She hasn't had any consequences to her affair, the OM is her knight in shining armor and she's pining away over the fantasy of him. You are the person holding her back from her "happily ever after." Once the affair has been exposed, and the fantasy shattered, that is when the fog lifts. When she fully realizes the gravity of what she has done and what she is about to lose. 

Now, of course, not every WS will want to reconcile. She may still feel "you are different people now" and want to divorce. But then you will know for sure you did the right thing - instead of sticking around for years in limbo while she continued to have affairs and/or treat you poorly.


----------



## helolover

Pilot, your situation is very standard cheater script. Nothing new here. Your wife is saying the cheater script to the letter. 

I'll refer you over to http://chumpady.com for some extra insight into infidelity and trying to R. Gives good perspective from a lot of different people in your position. 

I personally think R is a waste of your time and precious resources, but YOU have to make the decision. 

Keep reading the threads here. You're in good company, although sometimes we argue in posts. It's just the way we roll here on CWI. 

HL


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> Yes, my wife was there. I glanced over at my wife and at one point saw her blatantly look at him from afar.
> 
> Here's what I might do:


Are you going to read the book? Amazon has it on Kindle. If you don't have a kindle, Amazon as an online site where you can upload kindle books to read. (No I do not make money on the book. I just think it's a very very good guide on what to do no matter what direction you choose.) And if you read that book, you will have detail that would take way too much time to pass on to you in a forum like this.



pilotranger said:


> 1. Contact a divorce attorney to get a consulation and be prepared to file if necessary


Fair enough. There is also a ton of info on line for every state. Getting ready to file is not an emergency. If you decide to file, you can get it going in a few days. 


pilotranger said:


> 2. Let the OM's wife know (with evidence)


Good. 


pilotranger said:


> 3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.


Expect that he will contact your wife after you inform his wife. When he contacts your wife… you call his and let her know. This will let him know that there is now a network watching his every move. And you are not going to let him destroy your marriage/family without him paying a high price.

She will go ballistic saying things like "how could you hurt his family like that?" the answer is "You hurt his family. She has the right to know."

She might tell you that she hates you.. just ignore it. Think of it as she’s a 5 year old and you just took her new toy away. Psst

Just expect stupid to come out of her mouth. Ignore is as best you can.

Then ask her to end all contact with him; no networking for jobs, no going to Church to see him, etc. Tell her that you need her to write up the no contact letter from the book. And then you will be with her when it is sent.
If she refuses… do the Plan A in the book. Most people can only do it for a week or two. Along with Plan A, interact with her according to the 180 linked to in my signature block below. Do not beg, do not plead. Hold the 180. Sometimes it takes people a bit to come to their senses. Do Plan A & 180 until she comes to you asking for recovery or you cannot do them anymore.

If she agrees to the no contact and working on marital recovery, insist on marriage counseling for affair recovery. 

If she does not agree to no contact and recovery by the time you are burned out on Plan A/180 then do into that the book calls Plan B…. the precursor to file for divorce. That’s when you start to see the attorney and get your plan together.


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> I like it, you have the steps in the correct order. One modification I would make would be to actually file and provide OMW the evidence on the day your wife is served. Maximum shock value.


Filing for divorce will require that he put up a retainer of between $2000 and $10,000.

Now maybe he's rolling in the dough. But most people do not have that kind of money to throw around.

If he files, he's made his choice, divorce. It seldom beings anyone back into a marriage. It's a last ditch effort, not the first one out of the box.


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> So she told me in March (after our big blow up), we're different people now and not sure if we can get that intimacy back, etc.
> 
> Is that just "lost in the fog of the affair" or is that legit?


She is lost in the affair fog. If you two were once in love, you can get it back if both of you work on it.


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I would add another step to that is to tell her family (both parents deceased), but brothers and sisters would be FLOORED. They might even disown her and have nothing to do with her. That's how much they value "true family values" and the sanctity of marriage.


Them disowning will not help you recover your marriage. If you end up going for recovery, you would do much better having them on your side. Remember that there is the concept of redemption. 

It will not help your children to destroy their access to extended family.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> I would add another step to that is to tell her family (both parents deceased), but brothers and sisters would be FLOORED. They might even disown her and have nothing to do with her. That's how much they value "true family values" and the sanctity of marriage.


Be sure to mention that you found condoms in her briefcase. That should go over real well.

Honestly, though, if you're looking to reconcile your marriage, you may want to seriously consider NOT exposing to her family. Unless, of course, she refuses to end the affair. Then it's open war.


----------



## wmn1

pilotranger said:


> I've confronted last month, but she says she just networks with the guy for career opportunities, etc.
> 
> But I found the evidence last night. Have not confronted since.


career opps in what field ?

It's on you if you can play the movies in your head of them doing 69's but it would be long over for me. peace out


----------



## Lostinthought61

Never assume she has ended it...and regardless it's time to put your plan in action and have her admit to her siblings


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> She is lost in the affair fog. If you two were once in love, you can get it back if both of you work on it.


or he can move on with someone who won't blow his trust out of the water.

The question for pilotranger is if he will ever be able to trust her to the same extent as before and if not, would it be worth it to spend the rest of your life trying to get things back to 90% when they can be at 100% and more exciting with someone new.

I think his W is damaged goods and not worth the effort. But who knows for him


----------



## wmn1

arbitrator said:


> The kids are close enough to 18 that D should be your primary option. Ergo1) Gather your evidence and start your search for a good family attorney who has a reputation for being a literal piranha in the courtroom. (2) Demand possession of the domicile as well as custody of the kids, getting as much child support from her that you can. (3) notify her OM's wife and alert her as to the existence of and evidence of the affair. (4) Just as soon as your W is ordered to vacate the house, change the locks and any alarm codes. (5) get yourself a medical checkup, including tests for STD's.
> 
> Sorry this is happening to you, but I'm glad that you found us her at TAM!


do this !!!


----------



## EleGirl

wmn1 said:


> or he can move on with someone who won't blow his trust out of the water.
> 
> The question for pilotranger is if he will ever be able to trust her to the same extent as before and if not, would it be worth it to spend the rest of your life trying to get things back to 90% when they can be at 100% and more exciting with someone new.
> 
> I think his W is damaged goods and not worth the effort. But who knows for him


Do keep in mind that there are people here posting who have recovered their marriages and who have rebuilt even stronger, happier marriages out of the ashes. People whose WS have proven that they have changed and rebuilt their trustworthiness.


----------



## EI

EleGirl said:


> Yes because all Catholic girls are slvts and [email protected], right?
> 
> I'm a Catholic girl as are my 4 sisters, my daughter and all my nieces (dozens of them). I really do not think this kind of stereo typing is very funny.


I'm not even Catholic, (I'm a Baptist) and I was also offended by that comment, as well as by other comments in that post by LongWalk. 

He's usually a fairly thoughtful poster. WTH happens to these guys, sometimes, that they go from being an articulate, thoughtful poster, to writing something like whatever that hot mess of a post was supposed to be?


----------



## arbitrator

If R is even remotely any kind of an option, just remember that "it takes two to tango!" IMHO, she's developed way too much of an attachment to her OM to seriously turn back now. But then again, that is going to be your call!

And let's just pretend that R is reaching some degree of success. Even from her prior actions, are you going to be able to 100% trust her, keeping in mind her communications with him, the condoms you found in her possession, but more notably, the inherent deception in her lies to you! 

If there is 100% contrition on her part to you and to your kids, then that is one thing; otherwise it is just a decade she's putting up, still wanting to "have her cake and eat it, too!"

Your internal intuition will tell you all too well, if whether she's serious about this or not!


----------



## the guy

Speaking of Catholics....

If your old lady can handle the inquisition she may be worth keeping. So start with a hard spanking and then set some boundaries and consequences when those boundaries are crossed..

It will be her choice to repent or not. Back in the 13 century folks didn't have that choice!

Why would you keep your spouse around if they weren't truly remorseful enough to have that degree of submission that helps rebuild the trust? Sure one can fake remorse, but once you put the screws to them they will show their real commitment.

Any way, my experience tells me that with out consequences sh!TTY behavior continues.....one can stay for the kids or stay for the money/or lack of, or what ever. at the end of the day you are just telling your spouse you will tolorate their sh!t.


----------



## Mr Right

G'day Pilot, sorry you are going through this. It's good that she and other POS goes to church. IMO you NEED to go a NUCLEAR, SCORCHED EARTH approach and blow this thing out of the water. I would start with her family and next week at Church, I would stand up in the congregation and spill the beans in front of EVERYONE. I wouldn't go screaming and yelling, just sit up the front and tell the father you have something to tell the congregation then calmly tell everyone while looking at the Scum Dog that this so called POS man has "covet another man's wife" namely yours and let the chips fall where they may. Tell everyone if you want proof you have it. 

This would be the 3rd thing I did after I 
1. Monday Morning, see the best divorce lawyer in town, to find out where you stand.
2. Monday Afternoon, Transfer all the money you and her have into an bank account that only you can touch.


----------



## EleGirl

the guy said:


> Speaking of Catholics....
> 
> If your old lady can handle the inquisition she may be worth keeping. So start with a hard spanking and then set some boundaries and consequences when those boundaries are crossed..
> 
> It will be her choice to repent or not. Back in the 13 century folks didn't have that choice!
> 
> Why would you keep your spouse around if they weren't truly remorseful enough to have that degree of submission that helps rebuild the trust? Sure one can fake remorse, but once you put the screws to them they will show their real commitment.
> 
> Any way, my experience tells me that with out consequences sh!TTY behavior continues.....one can stay for the kids or stay for the money/or lack of, or what ever. at the end of the day you are just telling your spouse you will tolorate their sh!t.


Yes, beating his wife and forcing her into submission is just such a great idea.

Good grief. And why the need for yet another poster to insult Catholics? And.. yes in the inquisition people had the chance to repent.

:scratchhead:


----------



## the guy

arbitrator said:


> If R is even remotely any kind of an option, just remember that "it takes two to tango!" IMHO, she's developed way too much of an attachment to her OM to seriously turn back now. But then again, that is going to be your call!
> 
> And let's just pretend that R is reaching some degree of success. Even from her prior actions, are you going to be able to 100% trust her, keeping in mind her communications with him, the condoms you found in her possession, but more notably, the inherent deception in her lies to you!
> 
> If there is 100% contrition on her part to you and to your kids, then that is one thing; otherwise it is just a decade she's putting up, still wanting to "have her cake and eat it, too!"
> 
> Your internal intuition will tell you all too well, if whether she's serious about this or not!



I say make that cake biter enough to challenge your old lady.

Intuition is always right on and yet verify it by seeing how far your old lady will go to keep her marriage. After all she phucked up ...can she do the sentence to redeem her self....or will she just phuck you over again in a few years.

So who needs to reconcile here...you or your old lady?


----------



## EleGirl

Mr Right said:


> G'day Pilot, sorry you are going through this. It's good that she and other POS goes to church. IMO you NEED to go a NUCLEAR, SCORCHED EARTH approach and blow this thing out of the water. I would start with her family and next week at Church, I would stand up in the congregation and spill the beans in front of EVERYONE. I wouldn't go screaming and yelling, just sit up the front and tell the father you have something to tell the congregation then calmly tell everyone while looking at the Scum Dog that this so called POS man has "covet another man's wife" namely yours and let the chips fall where they may. Tell everyone if you want proof you have it. .


I'm sorry but the Catholic Church does not work this way. No Priest would allow on parishioner to humiliate their spouse and other members of the Church in this manner. 

What do you think this would do to his family if he and his wife go into recovery? His children would be so humiliated that they could never step foot in Church again. And he and his wife could not recover their marriage.





Mr Right said:


> This would be the 3rd thing I did after I
> 
> 1. Monday Morning, see the best divorce lawyer in town, to find out where you stand.


It's pretty easy. Assets and debts divided 50/50. Child custody and time sharing at about 50/50. Sole asserts and debt stay with the party they belong to. 
Depending on the state there might be some alimony from the higher earner to the lower earner for some period of time. But most, if not all states now want both parties to be self supporting. It sounds like they might already be.



Mr Right said:


> 2. Monday Afternoon, Transfer all the money you and her have into an bank account that only you can touch.


Not a good idea. 

He can open an account in his name and transfer 50% of all cash assets into it. Any money he has in any accounts in his name need to figure into that calculation. If he touches a penny more than half she can get an emergency court hearing because he has left her destitute. She will get the money back and in some jurisdictions also ask that he be penalized. 

Keep in mind that with modern banking we have wonderful audit trails. Every penny he attempts to steal for the marriage can be traced and he will have to return her half.

Scorched earth tactics do exactly that.. they destroy not only any chance of recovery, but they also destroy a couple's ability to co-parent in a healthy manner. They also turn a divorce into a war. Lawyers love this. They stir the pot and keep the couple fighting. All it does is to leave the couple much poorer and fill the pockets of lawyers.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Pilotranger,

Very sorry for your situation. Just a few things to add:

a) this affair has been going on for 2 years and she has apparently shut you off sexually and emotionally during that time. Please do a serious gut check before you talk about R, because it's not just that she has cheated; she has marginalized you and treated you with contempt. You will have a lot of anger to deal with very soon.

b) She is deep in the fog. Do not trust her good-bye letter. The fact she can look over at him in church tells you all you need to know. It is 100% obvious to whom she is giving her love, her attention and her self.

c) exposure is a strategy. She is living the fantasy. She has to be shocked out of fantasy-land. There is no other way for the marriage to have a chance than clear exposure of this into the light of day where neither she nor the AP can hide. Whether it's a good idea to expose to her family or not is a judgment call only you can make. IF they are the kind of family that will try to make her see how wrong she has been without punishing her severely, then it might be worth it.

d) After the exposure, her actions will determine if there is any chance for R. I think it was EleGirl who wrote that she will most likely accuse you and berate you, then suddenly change to a pleading, crying mess. Ignore BOTH. True remorse is much different, and if she does not show any, or if she is openly unremorseful then proceed with a divorce. You need not follow through, but you must show her that you are dead serious that you will not put up with the way she has treated you over these 2 years any more. Show her exactly that so she understands it very clearly.


----------



## drifting on

Pilotranger

First, I apologize as I wasn't clear if you wanted to really reconcile. You say yes, but I remember being in your shoes on d-day and it's hell. I would definitely make copies of your evidence and give to OMW. If you don't know their address follow them home. Just tell your wife ahead of time you will meet her at church. Whatever you do don't tell your WW you are exposing to OM's wife. 

Next take a deep breath, you have just started your journey in hell. I'm not being sarcastic, I've been there, and I thought my life was over. Read what these posters are telling you. Let it sink in before you act. Most of these posters are very helpful, you will know who they are the more you read. 

I'm sorry you are here, it's overwhelming at times to. Good luck to you.


----------



## the guy

EleGirl said:


> Yes, beating his wife and forcing her into submission is just such a great idea.
> 
> Good grief. And why the need for yet another poster to insult Catholics? And.. yes in the inquisition people had the chance to repent.
> 
> :scratchhead:


Ok, ok.ok,

I'm just saying *if* OP's wife wanted to submit....then it would be a positive jesture on her part to take the necessary lashing to stay in the good graces of the church, colony and her husband.

At the very least, stich a red "A" to her clothes and make her walk around the colony in shame!


There now I'm insulting Quackers

BTW my intend was not to insult ...I was just being a wise @ss and making light of a phucked up deal you guys were talking about.

OP is still in a hard place so lets not lose sight of that ...no matter how hard I try to make light of a very painful sitch...


----------



## the guy

@pilo, sorry for the threadjack.


----------



## Wolf1974

EI said:


> I'm not even Catholic, (I'm a Baptist) and I was also offended by that comment, as well as by other comments in that post by LongWalk.
> 
> He's usually a fairly thoughtful poster. WTH happens to these guys, sometimes, that they go from being an articulate, thoughtful poster, to writing something like whatever that hot mess of a post was supposed to be?


Think I will remember this thread when other stereotypes pop up here so often. Funny how some seem so acceptable and others here dont


----------



## EleGirl

the guy said:


> Ok, ok.ok,
> 
> I'm just saying *if* OP's wife wanted to submit....then it would be a positive jesture on her part to take the necessary lashing to stay in the good graces of the church, colony and her husband.
> 
> At the very least, stich a red "A" to her clothes and make her walk around the colony in shame!
> 
> 
> There now I'm insulting Quackers
> 
> BTW my intend was not to insult ...I was just being a wise @ss and making light of a phucked up deal you guys were talking about.
> 
> OP is still in a hard place so lets not lose sight of that ...no matter how hard I try to make light of a very painful sitch...


As long as insulted Quakers 

(Quackers? What do they worship? The big duck in the sky? How about Pastaferians? You forgot them. :scratchhead: )

You are right, the OP is in a very tough place right now. Most of us have been there, done that. So we know.

No one is making light of his situation.


----------



## Wolf1974

arbitrator said:


> If R is even remotely any kind of an option, just remember that "it takes two to tango!" IMHO, she's developed way too much of an attachment to her OM to seriously turn back now. But then again, that is going to be your call!
> 
> And let's just pretend that R is reaching some degree of success. Even from her prior actions, are you going to be able to 100% trust her, keeping in mind her communications with him, the condoms you found in her possession, but more notably, the inherent deception in her lies to you!
> 
> If there is 100% contrition on her part to you and to your kids, then that is one thing; otherwise it is just a decade she's putting up, still wanting to "have her cake and eat it, too!"
> 
> Your internal intuition will tell you all too well, if whether she's serious about this or not!


This is exactly right. Your wife was planning to leave you so I would be suspect of any reconciliation with her. Protect yourself now. Get half your assists out and in a safe account. Research divorce lawyers and see about a free consultation. Once you have these things in order then find out what she is willing to do. From there you can make your decision. You are already behind and need to catch up.

Op Sorry you're here. Was just a few years ago this day my world came apart


----------



## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> Think I will remember this thread when other stereotypes pop up here so often. Funny how some seem so acceptable and others here dont


It's probably best if stereo types are left out of things.... every so often it gets ugly so best to not go there unless their use is explained and actually adds to the discussion.


----------



## EI

Mr Right said:


> 2. Monday Afternoon, Transfer all the money you and her have into an bank account that only you can touch.


That would be illegal. And, not that it really matters, because since they are legally married, all of their money is still both of their money, but the OP did say that his WS cheated with a former co-worker, so she has contributed financially to the marital funds. So, that's definitely not a wise move from a legal standpoint.


----------



## EleGirl

EI said:


> That would be illegal. And, not that it really matters, because since they are legally married, all of their money is still both of their money, but the OP did say that his WS cheated with a former co-worker, so she has contributed financially to the marital funds. So, that's definitely not a wise move from a legal standpoint.


I agree.

But even if she were a SAHM, taking away all funds not right. It smacks of the idea that SAHMs contribute nothing to a marriage. If she were a SAHM and he did that, her changes of getting him smacked by the court would be even greater.


----------



## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> It's probably best is stereo types are left out of things.... every so often it gets ugly so best to not go there unless their use is explained and actually adds to the discussion.


Exactly my point. But you see it all the time here. All men do this, all women do that, all cops cheat and so forth and so on. So let's not pick and choose which stereotypes are ok and which aren't and just say that it doesn't add to the discussion. Because with exception of living and dying not much else Is a universal truth


----------



## Wolf1974

EI said:


> That would be illegal. And, not that it really matters, because since they are legally married, all of their money is still both of their money, but the OP did say that his WS cheated with a former co-worker, so she has contributed financially to the marital funds. So, that's definitely not a wise move from a legal standpoint.


Depends on the jurisdiction. In Colorado until the divorce paperwork is filed with the courts one spouse can transfer the money and it's not criminal theft. 

Civilly they can be ordered to give 1/2 back but it's not a criminal charge until the divorce paperwork, which defines this as illegal, is served and on file with the courts.


----------



## the guy

pilotranger said:


> In a letter she drafted (I'm not sure if she sent it), it sounds like she might have ended it (using past tense in her description and feelings, etc). So what if she has ended it and is SLOWLY trying to reconcile?


If this is the case then take advantage and #1 confirm that there is no longer a 3rd party influencing this marriage #2 get into MC and learn the tools to communicate and affair proof this marriage..


#1 is important...if a wayward spouse is still screwing around ...all the counseling in the world won't help.

This infidelity crap is addicting makes sure you aren't getting phucked over. You and me both know breaking up is hard to do. If this guy is still around the marriage is toast.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> Exactly my point. But you see it all the time here. All men do this, all women do that, all cops cheat and so forth and so on. So let's not pick and choose which stereotypes are ok and which aren't and just say that it doesn't add to the discussion. Because with exception of living and dying not much else Is a universal truth


I don't pick and choose stereo types. When a recognize one I tend to call it out.

Plus and a Catholic 'girl' I've heard that to the point where I want to puck when I hear it.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> Depends on the jurisdiction. In Colorado until the divorce paperwork is filed with the courts one spouse can transfer the money and it's not criminal theft.
> 
> Civilly they can be ordered to give 1/2 back but it's not a criminal charge until the divorce paperwork, which defines this as illegal, is served and on file with the courts.


True, in some states it's not illegal. But she can still take him to court, an emergency hearing, because of his doing this. And she can ask the court to have him pay all her legal feels for getting there. 

I've seen this play out in divorces I've worked on. I've done the forensic account to prove where the money came from, where it went, etc. Wrote up the court briefing for that part of the case.


----------



## EI

EleGirl said:


> I agree.
> 
> But even if she were a SAHM, taking away all funds not right. It smacks of the idea that SAHMs contribute nothing to a marriage. If she were a SAHM and he did that, her changes of getting him smacked by the court would be even greater.


As a SAHM of over 22 years, who has raised 5 children, you don't need to convince me. 

I just wanted to stress to the OP the importance of not making a knee jerk reaction based a poster's misguided suggestion.


----------



## EleGirl

EI said:


> As a SAHM of over 22 years, who has raised 5 children, you don't need to convince me.
> 
> I just wanted to stress to the OP the importance of not making a knee jerk reaction based a poster's misguided suggestion.


Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I was not trying to convince you... but was expanding on the topic.

And I agree.. it's a misguided suggestion that is often given out here


----------



## LongWalk

EleGirl said:


> Yes because all Catholic girls are slvts and [email protected], right?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a Catholic girl as are my 4 sisters, my daughter and all my nieces (dozens of them). I really do not think this kind of stereo typing is very funny.




Well, OP converted to Catholicism and I thought he might need some humor to survive what he is going through. Sorry if any Catholics found offense.


----------



## G.J.

Completely agree with most posters that you need *exposer to his wife*

She needs consequence for her actions or nothing will change and IF the affair has ended *which I doubt* if you recently found *condoms in her briefcase *then nothing will change

*Exposure to her family is an option* I would keep at the forefront at the minute to see what reaction you get when you sit her down and hit her will everything e.g. if she continues fv***** this POS then use it

It is never good to remain married if your not in a loving relationship 'for the sake of the kids', *Kids are not stupid* and they will be brought up in a dysfunctional relationship, no matter how hard you try the most important example is missing from the family - *LOVE* between their parents

You can only go the R route if *she is genuinely remorseful* and that can only get traction when the OM is buried and she comes back to planet reality as she's in an escapist place where she see's this POS only for the good 'live the fantasy times' and not the mundane daily life

good luck


----------



## LongWalk

Exposing directly to his wife will produce a massive shock wave. You might even skip confronting your wife for a moment to let her get a call from OM after his wife gives him hell.

If you want to reconcile, you need remorse. Your wife needs to reverse directions and chase you full speed.

Road Scholar is Catholic and his faith helped him to accept his cheating wife back. She had cut off sex in false reconciliation. Only when she saw in his eyes that he was done did she start throwing sex and affection at him. She is a better person today but perhaps not as a good as he would like.

His desire to stick it out goes up and down.

In any case, reading his thread will help you.


----------



## Harken Banks

LongWalk said:


> Well, OP converted to Catholicism and I thought he might need some humor to survive what he is going through. Sorry is any Catholics found offense.


I thought Longwalk's reference to Zappa was kind and appropriate. Sometimes it is good especially here when someone points out the absurdity with a bit of levity and humor. Irreverence even. If only one person smiled a bit in response it hit the spot. Pilotranger is dealing with some really difficult and miserable stuff. There can be good and therapeutic moments when you step back from it a bit, look at it from a perspective outside of your own pain and confusion, and laugh a bit at the absurdity. Perspective. Let's not get overly sensitive, incensed, and moralizing over a kind and humorous thought sent the way of the OP. Plus, in context the outrage rings a bit hollow.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Can you expose to the parish priest? perhaps he could approach them as a couple in say a pastorial manner to help make sure he doesn't come near your wife as you are both trying to fix things also he would be to busy trying not to be hit by the oncoming **** storm to approach her and patch things up at home, i'm also Catholic and these well to do ones with good standing in the community don't want bad publicity/gossip damaging their reputation at church or the business world


----------



## imjustwatching

You really want to reconcile after all of this really??
your wife made a cuckold of you:
-she stop having sex with you to stay faithful to her lover
-she done things to him in bed that she would never do to you
And you want to stay after all of this ? Are you that desperate ? you do realise that there is a lot of honnest faithful women out there and you deserve better than this...
My advice expose to both family's and the OMW and filed after that .show her the consequences for her actions...


----------



## MattMatt

Mr Useless said:


> Can you expose to the parish priest? perhaps he could approach them as a couple in say a pastorial manner to help make sure he doesn't come near your wife as you are both trying to fix things also he would be to busy trying not to be hit by the oncoming **** storm to approach her and patch things up at home, i'm also Catholic and these well to do ones with good standing in the community don't want bad publicity/gossip damaging their reputation at church or the business world


Don't do this by yourself. Get the priest on side. Goodness knows what lies she has told him and others.

Also this will probably NOT be OM's first trip out as a marriage busting rodeo clown so out him to the priest.

And www.cheaterville.com can help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

Expose to her family, the OM wife, the priest, tell her yall are no longer going to attend that congregation. If OM does not repent in front of pastor, bring in the elders. If that does not work...the Bible says bring it before the congregation. I've known of that happening on one occasion. FILE FOR DIVORCE. I would tell my oldest 2 why. Make her work to win you back after the divorce if you would still want to be with her.

Exposing to her family would cut off her escape/slander route. They would not be believing her when she started" he did this, he's treated me like this, he is mean." Close that door for her! So she can not be deflecting blame.


----------



## allwillbewell

Pilot expressed concern about what exposing would do to his children: please realise the BS is NOT responsible for the pain the children will certainly feel. No way to avoid the consequences the cheater brings upon the innocent. They will survive this and learn alot of positive things about marriage, self respect and courage either way if this crisis is handled in a mature and calm way.

As to exposing to your RC parish priest, realise that by definition they are celibate and unmarried..they really have next to zero personal experience in married relationships ..they are not marriage counselors but they are spiritual counselors. Go to him for that but see a legitamate MC for help with infidelity.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You just found the evidence, so you are in shock. You are in a roller coaster of emotions. You may be asking many questions to yourself like how could she, why and lot more only she can answer your questions. so, confront her now. Dont expect a confession but expect TTing, Blame shifting and gas lighting.

I dont think you know the exact length and details of the A. It will be more useful if you can snoop little more to gather more evidences before she wipes off trails of evidences soon after you confront her.

Expose the A to OMW before you confront your wife, this will help her to gather more information by snooping on OM and share it with you. This will not give them time to straiten their stories.

When you confront her, make it as far as cam and collected. Dont expect her to tell the complete truth. Dont cry in front of her, dont beg or plead her to stay or reconcile.

Its about your marriage so take your own time to decide upon the future of your marriage depending upon her actions after your confrontation (not her words). Then you will be more clear in your decision to reconcile or D.


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> What benefits do you think that going to a lawyer and planning a surprise divorce will give you? It's a serious question.


Divorce is often about being one step ahead of the other. Every single guy I know who has been hit with papers unexpectedly got the lower end of the deal when it came to living arrangements and workload during the deconstruction period. While they were busy trying to figure out how to react and sorting through their emotions, they were getting taken to school.


What Are The Financial And Legal Advantages Of Being First To File For Divorce? - Forbes

This guy writes a good piece though he focuses on his women clientele. The same rules and benefits can apply to guys as well


----------



## MattMatt

allwillbewell said:


> Pilot expressed concern about what exposing would do to his children: please realise the BS is NOT responsible for the pain the children will certainly feel. No way to avoid the consequences the cheater brings upon the innocent. They will survive this and learn alot of positive things about marriage, self respect and courage either way if this crisis is handled in a mature and calm way.
> 
> As to exposing to your RC parish priest, realise that by definition they are celibate and unmarried..they really have next to zero personal experience in married relationships ..they are not marriage counselors but they are spiritual counselors. Go to him for that but see a legitamate MC for help with infidelity.


Actually many priests DO have some training in relationship counselling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> Do keep in mind that there are people here posting who have recovered their marriages and who have rebuilt even stronger, happier marriages out of the ashes. People whose WS have proven that they have changed and rebuilt their trustworthiness.


I do keep that in mind and my statements are not to take a jab at those people. I actually am amazed at their willpower. However, R is not for everyone. I can say that, in my personal life, there has not been one single successful R among all of the people I know, work with etc ...( and my sample pool is quite large) Many here also have not succeeded and actually often recommend against it. And even in the successful R I have seen here and especially in my personal life, there are still lingering issues for years and years and I think that OP needs to know and hear from those people on what issues he may face so he can make an informed decision in advance. All the cards are in his hands. There are a couple reconciliation threads that are recent and perhaps OP can go there to read the stories and get people's opinions who have tried it. 

BTW, I had one solid chance at R and it was an unmitigated disaster.


----------



## wmn1

EI said:


> That would be illegal. And, not that it really matters, because since they are legally married, all of their money is still both of their money, but the OP did say that his WS cheated with a former co-worker, so she has contributed financially to the marital funds. So, that's definitely not a wise move from a legal standpoint.



He needs to consult an attorney and find out legally what he can take out and what he can't. Different states have different laws regarding everything but many of these laws are similar state to state

Safeguarding Your Money if You Anticipate a Hostile Divorce - For Dummies

Divorce Bank Account Questions


----------



## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> I don't pick and choose stereo types. When a recognize one I tend to call it out.
> 
> Plus and a Catholic 'girl' I've heard that to the point where I want to puck when I hear it.


Ok then will hold you to that


----------



## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> True, in some states it's not illegal. But she can still take him to court, an emergency hearing, because of his doing this. And she can ask the court to have him pay all her legal feels for getting there.
> 
> I've seen this play out in *divorces I've worked on. *I've done the forensic account to prove where the money came from, where it went, etc. Wrote up the court briefing for that part of the case.


yes the use of forensic accountants do get used in divorce cases to establish income levels for things like support and alimony. But no emergency procedure for that here. Seen it done several times and not much anyone can do until the divorce hearing. It's a terrible loophole


----------



## Forest

Pilot-

In regard to R, I'd think that once this whole affair biz is blown out of the water, she'll be ripe and pleading for R. Why? Because OM is a slimy, self-centered jerk. It goes with the territory. That is the type of married man that chases married women.

OM's wife knows this, that why she keeps the kids between them in church. Your wife is nothing but a conquest to him. The only way he'd be there for her is if his own wife completely tossed him out.

From the thread, I can't remember if you've confronted him or not. Once you do, he'll run like a rabbit, and your wife will come to realize how much she's been played, and what a twit he is. Then, possibly, some remorse will creep in.

The trouble is, you have many other things yet to confront. Anger, humiliation, betrayal.

You're the one who decides about R. Obviously, her remorse (if it arrives) demeanor will play into it.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

allwillbewell said:


> Pilot expressed concern about what exposing would do to his children: please realise the BS is NOT responsible for the pain the children will certainly feel. No way to avoid the consequences the cheater brings upon the innocent. They will survive this and learn alot of positive things about marriage, self respect and courage either way if this crisis is handled in a mature and calm way.
> 
> As to exposing to your RC parish priest, realise that by definition they are celibate and unmarried..they really have next to zero personal experience in married relationships ..they are not marriage counselors but they are spiritual counselors. Go to him for that but see a legitamate MC for help with infidelity.


Most parishes here have trained marriage councilors as well as family lawyers who just happen to be priests and i'm sure in his diocese it's the same, exposing to the priest is not going public but an attempt to save his marriage as his request also the priest wont tell the wider community but will give a strong warning shot across other mans bow into the bargain as well as a decent shot at saving the marriage and in line with church doctrine he would be saving not one but two marriages, that's the official version but the real reason would be fighting dirty but not harming kids while doing so i'd involve her deeply religious family and remind them they made you convert and you want their support for the kids and family in this time of need


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> True, in some states it's not illegal. But she can still take him to court, an emergency hearing, because of his doing this. And she can ask the court to have him pay all her legal feels for getting there.
> 
> I've seen this play out in divorces I've worked on. I've done the forensic account to prove where the money came from, where it went, etc. Wrote up the court briefing for that part of the case.


It's all up to the judge/judges in the case and I have seen decisions all over the place.

Sometimes, I feel it's a crap shoot.

What I see happening more and more are attorneys advising their clients to do what is necessary to take care of themselves and lock themselves down with their assets but don't do anything that will piss off the presiding judge to the point that he will grow more skeptical of you or your actions.

I have also seen some judges make decisions that are clearly biased and in violation of some precedence from higher courts only to get slapped down by an appellate court.

In the end, he would be safer to take what is his out of his sole accounts and half out of joint. Freeze joint credit accounts if possible or get his name off of there and lock down the rest of his assets like Fort Knox until final disposition. EI was right about marital assets. Little can go wrong if he goes to the max and takes what his attorney advises him to do.


----------



## wmn1

LongWalk said:


> Well, OP converted to Catholicism and I thought he might need some humor to survive what he is going through. Sorry if any Catholics found offense.


I am Catholic and I am thick skinned so no worries and no offense. I knew what your intent was


----------



## italianjob

EleGirl said:


> Filing for divorce will require that he put up a retainer of between $2000 and $10,000.
> 
> Now maybe he's rolling in the dough. But most people do not have that kind of money to throw around.
> 
> If he files, he's made his choice, divorce. It seldom beings anyone back into a marriage. It's a last ditch effort, not the first one out of the box.


Actually I've known of people who got divorced and then reconciled and remarried.
I don't think that there can be a one-size-fits-all approach for the use of this strategy, it depends on the different situations. If the WS is playing games and using derogatory strategies filing for D often cuts the crap.
The cost IS an issue but a false R is often even more costly in terms of time wasted (years sometimes) and useless (because there's no real intention to R) MC sessions.


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> Filing for divorce will require that he put up a retainer of between $2000 and $10,000.
> 
> Now maybe he's rolling in the dough. But most people do not have that kind of money to throw around.
> 
> *If he files, he's made his choice, divorce. It seldom beings anyone back into a marriage.* It's a last ditch effort, not the first one out of the box.


That's a load of crap. If he files, it's the conclusive proof that her world is tumbling down. If she's going to be R worthy getting served will be like a gigantic bucket of ice water in her face, it will snap her out of the fog like nothing else. Nothing will hit her as hard as having a process server hand her surprise divorce papers, that's when the consequences become real. That's when the cold chills hit, the metallic taste in the mouth, the sick feeling in the pit of her stomach. Couple that with being thrown under the bus by the AP when his wife rips him a new one, family calling her to ask her how she could be so foolish, the church secretary calling to let her know the priest would like to meet with her, all while hearing nothing from her husband and the fog is gone right then. If he's going to be able to R her reaction to this rapid series of blows will tell the tale. But if you spread this stuff out you'll give her time to settle down between each shot and you may not break her out of the fog.

As for the finances, if he's too low on money to use a lawyer he can always get the paperwork from the court house and fill it out and file it himself. In some states you can sit down with a paralegal and have the paperwork filled out for you for a small fee, then file it yourself. And if he does pay the lawyer a retainer and file then decide to R he can just notify the lawyer to retract the filing and refund the unused portion of the retainer. If he decides she's not worth R then he's ahead of the game.


----------



## warlock07

3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.


Don't expect others to respect you when you can't respect yourself. I'm humiliated for you


----------



## WorkingOnMe

pilotranger said:


> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?








Yes.


----------



## MattMatt

WorkingOnMe said:


> Yes.


Not always.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Here is what I would do if I were in your position.

Ask your wife to leave the martial home.

Expose the affair to her family and close mutual friends and her church.

Expose the affair to her lover's wife.

Expose the affair to her company. 

File for divorce.


She would do stuff with him that she would deny you through the marriage ? What more do you want ? There is absolutely no chance you will ever be happy in this marriage with this woman. There is no love.




> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


yes, when your wife cheats and you are the only one that wants to stay married, it speaks about your lack of self respect.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

MattMatt said:


> Not always.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_








Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## warlock07

EleGirl said:


> Filing for divorce will require that he put up a retainer of between $2000 and $10,000.
> 
> Now maybe he's rolling in the dough. But most people do not have that kind of money to throw around.
> 
> If he files, he's made his choice, divorce. It seldom beings anyone back into a marriage. It's a last ditch effort, not the first one out of the box.





EleGirl said:


> She is lost in the affair fog. If you two were once in love, you can get it back if both of you work on it.



Terrible advice.


----------



## warlock07

pilotranger said:


> 3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.


This is pretty useless. And will put you in a worse off condition in the end. She might act like she wants to repair the marriage either to save her reputation or not have a divorce. Leaving you miserable for the rest of your life.

Think about it for a second. Can you imagine cheating on your wife for revenge ? How would she react if you do ?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Doing things sexually for him that she denies you is a deal breaker for most men.


----------



## italianjob

pilotranger said:


> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


Well, I think at this stage it surely is. You haven't even confronted her yet. You don't even really know the true extent of the affair (well, two years long and doing things with AP that she wouldn't with you, it's already one of the nasty ones and details will only make it worse), or if she wants to stay in the marriage at all...

To talk about R now is a sign of co dependency, so yes, a sign of weakness...


----------



## happyman64

PilotRanger

Lots of really good advice and some advice that is not so accurate.

You never said how old you and youR WW are? Nor how long you two have been married?

I am a devout Catholic and was not offended though I get LW's humor.

But in all seriousness if I loved someone enough to convert for them I certainly would love them enough to fight for my marriage.....

But putting faith aside for a minute in order to fight for the marriage and make an honest attempt at Reconciliation it takes both spouses.

A BS that still loves the spouse enough to make the attempt to keep the marriage together. "Just for the kids" is not a good enough reason to make an attempt at R. IMO.

But also a WS that is 100% truthful. Not only honest to the BS but to themselves.

That means the Affair has to be over. The OM's spouse has to know about the affair and a No Contact letter is sent.

The work and church relationship is severed.

And her family is told in a positive manner. Not degrading your WS but asking for her families support if you both decide to Reconcile the marriage.

Should you speak to an attorney? Heck yeah. 

Get informed. It might surprise you just what will happen to your kids, assets and property if you do divorce. It might be good to inform your WS after you meet with an attorney.

Kill her affair. Show the OM spouse the evidence. Wait for your wife's reaction.

Get it through her head that you are no ones "Plan B"!

But most of all get it through your head that you are no ones second choice. That is what is most important.

It will make your tough life altering decisions easier to make.

Glad you found us and keep posting.

HM


----------



## MattMatt

WorkingOnMe said:


> Keep telling yourself that.


Yes thank you I will.

By the way this is Coping With Infidelity not Destroy All Cheaters.

Just thought I'd need to remind you of that fact.

Don't hassle those of us who are in a marriage after our spouse cheated on us.

It is rude and against the spirit of TAM and the rules, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

I am Catholic as well.

I understand where OP is coming from. She made him convert because the religion was so important then does not follow the religion herself.

Filing first has a lot of advantages for men. Any good attorney will tell you that.

There is nothing illegal about setting up an account and moving the money into the account. It is still an asset of the M, that is all. It is illegal to hide it in a D.

The reason you want to take control of the assets is to protect them so they are not depleted with spending. For instance she can take a 10k trip with OM. In settlement they will credit you for $5k but the $10 k will still be gone.

Another issue is running up M debt prior to a D. The BS can be on the hook for half.

If you do move your assets, make sure you provide support for your family. If you do that, there will be no issues. You also have to disclose if and when the D happens.


----------



## italianjob

OP, you need to change your approach to this, IMO.

Like most BS who come here for the first time, what you want is something that nobody can give you: your old life back.

Unfortunatley, infidelity is a life changing event. That means your life is bound to go through changes because of it. Those changes might range anywhere from small adaptations and a different perception of some things to a completely new direction for your life, not unlike an accident or an illness.

Many BS come here with R in their mind because they have the illusion that it is the closest thing to having their old life back, but it's not necessarily true.

What you should do now is not thinking about the final outcome of your ordeal, but getting set to do what needs to be done, one thing at a time. 

The first things you need to do are:
- know your rights and where you stand legally, so get legal advice.
- kill the affair. the best weapon to do this is total exposure.


----------



## Mr Right

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry but the Catholic Church does not work this way. No Priest would allow on parishioner to humiliate their spouse and other members of the Church in this manner.
> 
> What do you think this would do to his family if he and his wife go into recovery? His children would be so humiliated that they could never step foot in Church again. And he and his wife could not recover their marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty easy. Assets and debts divided 50/50. Child custody and time sharing at about 50/50. Sole asserts and debt stay with the party they belong to.
> Depending on the state there might be some alimony from the higher earner to the lower earner for some period of time. But most, if not all states now want both parties to be self supporting. It sounds like they might already be.
> 
> 
> Not a good idea.
> 
> He can open an account in his name and transfer 50% of all cash assets into it. Any money he has in any accounts in his name need to figure into that calculation. If he touches a penny more than half she can get an emergency court hearing because he has left her destitute. She will get the money back and in some jurisdictions also ask that he be penalized.
> 
> Keep in mind that with modern banking we have wonderful audit trails. Every penny he attempts to steal for the marriage can be traced and he will have to return her half.
> 
> Scorched earth tactics do exactly that.. they destroy not only any chance of recovery, but they also destroy a couple's ability to co-parent in a healthy manner. They also turn a divorce into a war. Lawyers love this. They stir the pot and keep the couple fighting. All it does is to leave the couple much poorer and fill the pockets of lawyers.


BS the only one who will be leaving the church is this POS and why the hell would you want that scumbag at the same church you go too. The priest would so let you address the congreation especially if he doesn't know what your going to say. So I don't know what goes on in a Catholic Church, LOL while I'm not Catholic, my wife is and her whole family, plus the 3 out of my 4 kids have all done their communion and I dare say I've been to church a truckload more than most people in the last 15 years. If I was at the same Church, I would want to know that this scumbag is a home and family wrecking SOB.

Who cares if she's entitled to 50% take the lot now and give her back the money in a settlement in 12 months time, she doesn't deserve it and will only use the money to leave with his kids and she's a great mother hey? Sorry but when she's this deep in (2 years), Scorched Earth is the only thing that will help, maybe bring her out.


----------



## wmn1

Nucking Futs said:


> That's a load of crap. If he files, it's the conclusive proof that her world is tumbling down. If she's going to be R worthy getting served will be like a gigantic bucket of ice water in her face, it will snap her out of the fog like nothing else. Nothing will hit her as hard as having a process server hand her surprise divorce papers, that's when the consequences become real. That's when the cold chills hit, the metallic taste in the mouth, the sick feeling in the pit of her stomach. Couple that with being thrown under the bus by the AP when his wife rips him a new one, family calling her to ask her how she could be so foolish, the church secretary calling to let her know the priest would like to meet with her, all while hearing nothing from her husband and the fog is gone right then. If he's going to be able to R her reaction to this rapid series of blows will tell the tale. But if you spread this stuff out you'll give her time to settle down between each shot and you may not break her out of the fog.
> 
> As for the finances, if he's too low on money to use a lawyer he can always get the paperwork from the court house and fill it out and file it himself. In some states you can sit down with a paralegal and have the paperwork filled out for you for a small fee, then file it yourself. And if he does pay the lawyer a retainer and file then decide to R he can just notify the lawyer to retract the filing and refund the unused portion of the retainer. If he decides she's not worth R then he's ahead of the game.


some attorneys I personally know accept payment plans and also agree to accept fees from the final settlement but many do require a retainer. So an attorney can be found


----------



## chaos

Your emphasis should be on divorce preparation - if it comes through you or through her - AND individual counseling to help you to recover from the ordeal of her long term affair. Marriage counseling should only be considered IF you want to stay married, she ends her affair, she expresses a desire to save the marriage and she shows signs of remorse. Anything else, is short of delusional thinking.


----------



## thenub

Imagine your ordeal is a movie on tv. You and you wife are sitting together watching it (say, 5yrs. Ago). What would she have said about the cheating wife and the do nothing husband? What would you have said about the husband and that knew about the affair and did nothing?? How do you think she would react to it now??? 

This is just one way to look at your situation. It may give you some sense of what you should do versus what you feel you should do.

Just a thought.


----------



## drifting on

Pilotranger

I went back and read your posts. I only have the information you provided as do all the posters. We don't know the full story, only you do. I rarely give advice as I am only eleven months from d-day, however, I've been in your shoes as have many posters on your thread. You are getting good advice for divorce and reconciliation. You are still on the fence about what you want. This is normal, read that again it's normal you feel this way. You have just had your marriage explode and in the wake of the ruins you stand ALONE. A place very unfamiliar to you. We have all been there. So what do you do? Only you know what you can tolerate, and what you can accept. In my opinion a man can stay in his marriage after infidelity. It will take strength you never knew you had. Divorce can be the same.

So this is what I would do if I was in your shoes and seeking reconciliation. First you need to kill the affair. OM invaded your family, act like it and get mad. You need to take him off the face of the earth (non-violently) of course. If OM is still around you are not. WW will focus on him not you. Second forget any PI, tell the OMW. Print her copies and hand them to her at your next church service. Do it in front of your wife if necessary but I don't recommend it. OMW will create such turmoil for OM he won't have time for your wife. Third confront your wife with a list of non-negotiable needs. These are not demands. This list is what you and your marriage need. Examples are no contact, go to church on Sunday, no more church with OM and whatever else you need. Four, if she disagrees then you believe everyone should celebrate in your WW's newfound love. 

If you decide to divorce start with the celebration above. Then expose to your priest. Yes the congregation may find out or the priest can decide to speak with each family separately. File divorce and list at fault. List OM in your divorce. Either way you attack OM at every turn. Protect yourself and assets. Go for sole custody. I told my WW I would do this. We have separate accounts to this day. Odds are stacked against you for custody, good luck on that. 

You need to make your best decision, in your first post I would eliminate number three. Not possible in my opinion. Whatever you choose I wish you the best of luck. Stay strong. Take a deep breath every chance you get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

I dont know why this catholic thing is getting more attention, Whether catholic, Muslim or Hindu cheaters cheat when they get the right chance. Cheaters are there in all religion and community.


----------



## chaos

It is possible that OP's wife and her OM may be subject to excommunication if the church hierarchy deems it to be necessary.


----------



## workindad

pilotranger said:


> I've confronted last month, but she says she just networks with the guy for career opportunities, etc.


Expect a mountain of additional lies as you progress forward


----------



## sidney2718

pilotranger said:


> I've thought about doing what you're suggesting, be subtle about it and then be in a position of strength. I'm just thinking how this is going to affect my kids emotionally.


Nothing good for your children can come of this. In my opinion, staying together "for the children" will send them the wrong message. They will KNOW that you are not in a loving marriage and suffer for it. A divorce is more honest, in my opinion, and something your kids know about from their friends at school.

As for reconciliation, it takes two. Right now she seems not to be interested, probably figuring that you will soldier on while she decides if she wants to leave you for this guy or the next one.

By the way, it is often the case that husbands and wives idealize each other. They won't talk "dirty" to each other, and there are a number of sexual activities that they won't engage in because no "proper" woman would do those things.

But the boy friend is different. She knows she's cheating, she knows she's not the "proper" woman any more and she's more than anxious to find out of those "other things" are as much fun as folks say.

Think carefully how you want this to come out. Your old marriage is dead, the woman you married has vanished. You are living with this new creature. Is she what you want?


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your wife was there to see him too?
> 
> Oh yea, his wife needs to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, my wife was there. I glanced over at my wife and at one point saw her blatantly look at him from afar.
> 
> Here's what I might do:
> 
> 1. Contact a divorce attorney to get a consulation and be prepared to file if necessary
> 
> 2. Let the OM's wife know (with evidence)
> 
> 3. Confront my wife and see her reaction. If she's willing to try and save our marriage, I'm going to insist on counseling and also do the letter that you suggested.
Click to expand...

4. -Expose big time to your family and hers. This is very important if you want to try R.


----------



## sidney2718

EleGirl said:


> Not at all. I think it takes a much stronger man worth through this and rebuild. It's much easier to just cut and run. I understand why some do, but it's easier.
> 
> I know many men who have stayed in their marriages after they found out about their wife's affair. They worked together with their wives and rebuilt to have a stronger marriage than before.
> I know a lot of women who did this too and are extremely happy. Many of these couples have been together post affair for decades now and very glad that they did.
> 
> I am not trying to sway you in any way except that you do this carefully so that when you make your decision, you know what you did all that could have. If you end up divorcing, then at least you have that peace of mind. If you end up staying and building a strong marriage out of this...this good for you. You and your children win.


This is good advice. But I want to warn about one thing. It takes TWO to reconcile. She needs to buy into reconciliation, including taking the responsibility for the damage she's done.


----------



## sidney2718

the guy said:


> If your old lady can handle the inquisition she may be worth keeping. So start with a hard spanking and then set some boundaries and consequences when those boundaries are crossed..
> 
> It will be her choice to repent or not. Back in the 13 century folks didn't have that choice!
> 
> Why would you keep your spouse around if they weren't truly remorseful enough to have that degree of submission that helps rebuild the trust? Sure one can fake remorse, but once you put the screws to them they will show their real commitment.
> 
> Any way, my experience tells me that with out consequences sh!TTY behavior continues.....one can stay for the kids or stay for the money/or lack of, or what ever. at the end of the day you are just telling your spouse you will tolorate their sh!t.


I don't agree with this. Too many men who have been wronged by women think that women have magical powers unavailable to men.

Reconciliation can work. Both parties have to want it. And the cheating party has a heavier load. Here she'd have to take on the major responsibility for cheating. But at some point in the reconciliation process he'd very likely have to make changes too. It is work, but if it does work both of you will come out stronger.

So for reconciliation to work, she has to admit what she has done and she has to be ready to answer questions you may have, be willing to work on issues. And the OP will have to convince her that he's all in for a reconciliation and is willing to work on his issues as well. Reconciliation is NOT a process of beating down the cheater until they cry for mercy. Nobody is perfect and nobody is totally evil.


----------



## sidney2718

the guy said:


> I say make that cake biter enough to challenge your old lady.
> 
> Intuition is always right on and yet verify it by seeing how far your old lady will go to keep her marriage. After all she phucked up ...can she do the sentence to redeem her self....or will she just phuck you over again in a few years.
> 
> So who needs to reconcile here...you or your old lady?


I think your idea of reconciliation is quite wrong. BOTH have to need to reconcile, not just one.


----------



## sidney2718

Suspecting2014 said:


> 4. -Expose big time to your family and hers. This is very important if you want to try R.


That's not clear to me. Depending on the families, it could make things worse. For example if his mother said "I'm against reconciliation because I never liked her from the start." That would not make R easier.

Each case is different.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> yes the use of forensic accountants do get used in divorce cases to establish income levels for things like support and alimony. But no emergency procedure for that here. Seen it done several times and not much anyone can do until the divorce hearing. It's a terrible loophole


States and jurisdictions have different rules, procedures, etc.

I've used forensic accounting to prove that one spouse took most or all the assets and tried to hide them. the results have been used in emergency hearings when on spouse leaves the other unable to live. 

OP needs to find out what is ok in his state/jurisdiction. 

Just giving him the advice to clean out the accounts and leave his wife destitute could backfire big time. He needs to know this.


----------



## EleGirl

wmn1 said:


> I am Catholic and I am thick skinned so no worries and no offense. I knew what your intent was


You are Catholic and a man.

So what was said is not calling you a [email protected] / slvt. 

Of course you do not mind... it's not a insult and attack on you.


----------



## EleGirl

italianjob said:


> Actually I've known of people who got divorced and then reconciled and remarried.
> 
> I don't think that there can be a one-size-fits-all approach for the use of this strategy, it depends on the different situations. If the WS is playing games and using derogatory strategies filing for D often cuts the crap.
> 
> The cost IS an issue but a false R is often even more costly in terms of time wasted (years sometimes) and useless (because there's no real intention to R) MC sessions.



Of course their are people who divorce and reconcile. 

But using divorce as a tactic early on is an expensive way to go for a tactic. Most people do not have that kind of money to blow.


----------



## EleGirl

happyman64 said:


> I am a devout Catholic and was not offended though I get LW's humor.HM


Yes you were not offended because you were not called [email protected] / slvt. If you think that calling women, all Catholic women, that is funny then I don't know what to say to you.

How about people allow those who are directly insulted by something be able to express that they were?


----------



## EleGirl

warlock07 said:


> Terrible advice.


Not according to those who actually help men and women recover from infidelity and marriage that have lost the passion.

If the goal it to push the OP into divorce, as it the usual goal here, then sure if the OP follows that advice he might just not get divorce, his marriage and family might be saved. Where's the fun in that ? Right?


----------



## EleGirl

Mr Right said:


> BS the only one who will be leaving the church is this POS and why the hell would you want that scumbag at the same church you go too.


Did I suggest at all that the BS leave the church? NO! Did I say that the POSOM should be in the same church that the BS and his family attends? NO!

So why are you putting words in my mouth?



Mr Right said:


> The priest would so let you address the congreation especially if he doesn't know what your going to say. So I don't know what goes on in a Catholic Church, LOL while I'm not Catholic, my wife is and her whole family, plus the 3 out of my 4 kids have all done their communion and I dare say I've been to church a truckload more than most people in the last 15 years. If I was at the same Church, I would want to know that this scumbag is a home and family wrecking SOB.


In the Catholic Church’s I have attended, no priest would allow this kind of public display. No one is allowed to just get up and start spewing stuff. Why? Because innocent people will be hurt. The OP’s children will never be able to attend that church again due to the public humiliation. Nor will the OMW’s children or the OMW. They are as innocent as the OP and his children. 



Mr Right said:


> Who cares if she's entitled to 50% take the lot now and give her back the money in a settlement in 12 months time, she doesn't deserve it and will only use the money to leave with his kids and she's a great mother hey? Sorry but when she's this deep in (2 years), Scorched Earth is the only thing that will help, maybe bring her out.


She does not deserve it? She does not deserve the money she earned? Really?

Scorched Earth, as preached on TAM’s CWI, is why most men who come to TAM’s CWI not only do not save recover their marriages but end up in divorces from hell. Divorces that are much more devastating than they ever would have been. We see it over and over. Do you know who suffers the most from divorces from hell? Not the adults who could not keep a marriage together. Nope. The children suffer. At this point it’s more about the children, or at least should be. There is the saying, “Love your children more than you hate your ex.”

This is an open forum. Some people, like me and many others know for a fact that non-scorched earth tactics are much more effective in both recovery and in divorce. We have the right and even obligation to post alternative ways of doing things. I believe that the OP has the right to hear/read all sorts of different advice. He sounds like a very good, intelligent man. I have no doubt that he can pick/chose from it all after reading/researching and looking into his own heart & soul. 

Now you apparently do not believe he should be offered any view other than the scorched earth tactics that you propose. 

The reason that the usual advice on CWI is angry, scorched earth that is geared towards humiliating, punishing and destroying her. It is that anyone who gives an alternative approach it chased out. There is a large percentage of people who post on TAM who will not post in CWI because of this. A lot of these folks have recovered from infidelity but are chased out by those who have not. Think about that for a minute.


----------



## EleGirl

drifting on said:


> Pilotranger
> 
> I went back and read your posts. I only have the information you provided as do all the posters. We don't know the full story, only you do. I rarely give advice as I am only eleven months from d-day, however, I've been in your shoes as have many posters on your thread. You are getting good advice for divorce and reconciliation. You are still on the fence about what you want. This is normal, read that again it's normal you feel this way. You have just had your marriage explode and in the wake of the ruins you stand ALONE. A place very unfamiliar to you. We have all been there. So what do you do? Only you know what you can tolerate, and what you can accept. In my opinion a man can stay in his marriage after infidelity. It will take strength you never knew you had. Divorce can be the same.
> 
> So this is what I would do if I was in your shoes and seeking reconciliation. First you need to kill the affair. OM invaded your family, act like it and get mad. You need to take him off the face of the earth (non-violently) of course. If OM is still around you are not. WW will focus on him not you. Second forget any PI, tell the OMW. Print her copies and hand them to her at your next church service. Do it in front of your wife if necessary but I don't recommend it. OMW will create such turmoil for OM he won't have time for your wife. Third confront your wife with a list of non-negotiable needs. These are not demands. This list is what you and your marriage need. Examples are no contact, go to church on Sunday, no more church with OM and whatever else you need. Four, if she disagrees then you believe everyone should celebrate in your WW's newfound love.
> 
> If you decide to divorce start with the celebration above. Then expose to your priest. Yes the congregation may find out or the priest can decide to speak with each family separately. File divorce and list at fault. List OM in your divorce. Either way you attack OM at every turn. Protect yourself and assets. Go for sole custody. I told my WW I would do this. We have separate accounts to this day. Odds are stacked against you for custody, good luck on that.
> 
> You need to make your best decision, in your first post I would eliminate number three. Not possible in my opinion. Whatever you choose I wish you the best of luck. Stay strong. Take a deep breath every chance you get.


:iagree: QFT


----------



## happyman64

EleGirl said:


> Yes you were not offended because you were not called [email protected] / slvt. If you think that calling women, all Catholic women, that is funny then I don't know what to say to you.
> 
> How about people allow those who are directly insulted by something be able to express that they were?


Maybe it is because I am a man but in truth it is because I know LW is not Catholic.

Are you ok Elegirl? You seem to be triggering......


----------



## just got it 55

PR HM64 post are words for you to live and die by

For the most part if not 99% of the time

BS that move fast with exposure take control and go on the full offensive get the results that protects them the most

Including R That choice is yours (and that takes more courage than anything)

If R is what you want than follow HM64 advise as well as what I have advised 

Get to it

55


----------



## Suspecting2014

drifting on said:


> Pilotranger
> 
> I went back and read your posts. I only have the information you provided as do all the posters. We don't know the full story, only you do. I rarely give advice as I am only eleven months from d-day, however, I've been in your shoes as have many posters on your thread. You are getting good advice for divorce and reconciliation. You are still on the fence about what you want. This is normal, read that again it's normal you feel this way. You have just had your marriage explode and in the wake of the ruins you stand ALONE. A place very unfamiliar to you. We have all been there. So what do you do? Only you know what you can tolerate, and what you can accept. In my opinion a man can stay in his marriage after infidelity. It will take strength you never knew you had. Divorce can be the same.
> 
> So this is what I would do if I was in your shoes and seeking reconciliation. First you need to kill the affair. OM invaded your family, act like it and get mad. You need to take him off the face of the earth (non-violently) of course. If OM is still around you are not. WW will focus on him not you. Second forget any PI, tell the OMW. Print her copies and hand them to her at your next church service. Do it in front of your wife if necessary but I don't recommend it. OMW will create such turmoil for OM he won't have time for your wife. Third confront your wife with a list of non-negotiable needs. These are not demands. This list is what you and your marriage need. Examples are no contact, go to church on Sunday, no more church with OM and whatever else you need. Four, if she disagrees then you believe everyone should celebrate in your WW's newfound love.
> 
> If you decide to divorce start with the celebration above. Then expose to your priest. Yes the congregation may find out or the priest can decide to speak with each family separately. File divorce and list at fault. List OM in your divorce. Either way you attack OM at every turn. Protect yourself and assets. Go for sole custody. I told my WW I would do this. We have separate accounts to this day. Odds are stacked against you for custody, good luck on that.
> 
> You need to make your best decision, in your first post I would eliminate number three. Not possible in my opinion. Whatever you choose I wish you the best of luck. Stay strong. Take a deep breath every chance you get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree but two things,

1._ Before exposing at the next service, prepare an exposing email to your family and hers, one minute before deliverig all printed proof sent it. Very important because by doing this you will prevent your wife to spread a diferent version where you are a really bad husband.

2.- After exposing to OMW and confronting your wife after church service, dont tell her what she needs to do to R before she asks for it. Tell her that you had a legal consult and she will be served. Nothing slaps WS out the fog faster than filing for D.

Be aware that she will be mad, she will lie, TT as well, denie everything, etc.

Start 180 after confronting and, of course tell her she needs to find a place to sleep because she is not welcome home, that you are not leaving as you didnt break your marriage. Maybe, you should tell her, at last and for your kids, that she can stay home not in your bed.

Good luck


----------



## EleGirl

happyman64 said:


> Maybe it is because I am a man but in truth it is because I know LW is not Catholic.
> 
> Are you ok Elegirl? You seem to be triggering......


LW not being Catholic makes no difference. It's mostly non-Catholics who make these joking and not-so-joking comments about Catholic women. You would be surprised if you knew how many people believe that nonsense. 

I made one, simple comment about a post that I found offensive. I found it offensive because it just gets tiresome to have those kinds of things thrown in our faces.

I made the comment so that LW would realize that many people do not find that funny, but insulting. 

It would have stayed at that one comment and EI's comment saying that she also found it inappropriate. 

But then several people have gone on to post that basically I and other women are wrong to have the feelings/belief that it was inappropriate. So I'm simply replying to the posts that are basically saying the some men are ok with classing an entire group of women as loose women.


----------



## cpacan

sidney2718 said:


> I think your idea of reconciliation is quite wrong. BOTH have to need to reconcile, not just one.


Maybe so, but then call it something else. If she senses that he needs R more than she does, and that he's willing to bend over backwards to keep her, she'll walk all over him.

He has to make her believe that she's just about to lose the marriage, otherwise he may just as well head for divorce yesterday.


----------



## LongWalk

EleGirl,

No religious or ethnic group has a corner on sexual immorality. All religions and nations set down rules to reduce conflict over women's sexual behavior... men's, too, although hypocrisy and double standards are "better" tolerated by some groups when it comes to the men-will-be-men allowances.

I agree with you that scorched earth is not the best policy for reconciliation. By definition there is nothing to salvage in ashes, except that you can boil hardwood ashes in water to make lye and then by adding animals produce your own soap.

Perhaps couples trying to reconcile after infidelity need crazy projects like making their own soap to rediscover each other.

One thing is certain: a BS can only dish out abuse or seek revenge for so long before the WS will give up. However, for PilotRanger to expose to OM's wife seems entirely reasonable. At the end of the day whenever children are involved, there is an additional incentive to save a marriage.

EleGirl, do you think that someone like PilotRanger should be satisfied with reconciliation that gets him and his wife back to approximately the same place they were pre-affair? Should being in a better marriage be the goal?


----------



## Suspecting2014

sidney2718 said:


> Suspecting2014 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. -Expose big time to your family and hers. This is very important if you want to try R.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not clear to me. Depending on the families, it could make things worse. For example if his mother said "I'm against reconciliation because I never liked her from the start." That would not make R easier.
> 
> Each case is different.
Click to expand...

The point is not left room for her to spread a diferent story of what happened in search of support. Ceaters lie not just to BS but everyone


----------



## EleGirl

LongWalk said:


> I agree with you that scorched earth is not the best policy for reconciliation. By definition there is nothing to salvage in ashes, except that you can boil hardwood ashes in water to make lye and then by adding animals produce your own soap.
> 
> Perhaps couples trying to reconcile after infidelity need crazy projects like making their own soap to rediscover each other.


Soap? Now there is a new idea. Maybe someone can get a grant to fund the research. 


LongWalk said:


> One thing is certain: a BS can only dish out abuse or seek revenge for so long before the WS will give up. However, for PilotRanger to expose to OM's wife seems entirely reasonable. At the end of the day whenever children are involved, there is an additional incentive to save a marriage.


I agree that PilotRanger needs to expose to the OMW as soon as possible. I think I said that on the first page or so of this thread. And I went into detail why.
The thing about children whether recovery or divorce is the final solution, it should be done in a manner that has the least impact on the children. Recovery is not always the right answer. Sometimes divorce is the healthiest way to go. Having been through a very nasty divorce where my son’s that (the cheater) turned it into a horrible fight that cost us more than your son’s college education, I know the toll that a nasty divorce has on children.


LongWalk said:


> EleGirl, do you think that someone like PilotRanger should be satisfied with reconciliation that gets him and his wife back to approximately the same place they were pre-affair? Should being in a better marriage be the goal?


Pilot should not be satisfied with a recovery that simply puts them right back where they were. His wife should not accept that either. Their marriage was broken. We don’t know why but it was/is. Getting the marriage back to the point it was before the affair… means they would be going back to a broken marriage. And before the marriage broke, one or both of them did not know how to build and maintain a healthy marriage. They have a lot of work to do. (As do all couples in this situation.)

Reconciliation is not always the right choice. Divorce is not always the right choice. But whatever Pilot chooses, it's his choice to make.


----------



## Mr Right

Your a better man than me Pilot, you know about the affair and kept your cool. I couldn't get within 1000 meters of the POS without trying to cave his scull. Since I been married and then had kids I have alway lived by the rule, there are 2 things you don't mess with
1. My Wife
2. My Family
If you do all bets are off and I will use anything in my power to make your life a living hell, but you have to do it right so you don't get into trouble.

I probably would have walked up to him and used the "we need to talk in private" then taken him to somewhere like the toilets and he wouldn't be getting out of there without a trip to the hospital, and with no witnesses, "he came at me and I had to defend myself" but POS like that will rarely call the police because they don't want anyone to know that they are a POS Scumbag.


----------



## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> States and jurisdictions have different rules, procedures, etc.
> 
> I've used forensic accounting to prove that one spouse took most or all the assets and tried to hide them. the results have been used in emergency hearings when on spouse leaves the other unable to live.
> 
> OP needs to find out what is ok in his state/jurisdiction.
> 
> Just giving him the advice to clean out the accounts and leave his wife destitute could backfire big time. He needs to know this.


I didn't give him any such advice. If you read my post I told him to consult a lawyer first for precisely this reason


----------



## Wazza

Hi Pilot Ranger,

I stayed in my marriage and rebuilt after my affair for the sake of the kids. It can be done.

Wife's affair was almost 25 years ago, and we are still together and happy.

Some on this thread say that reconciling is a mark of weakness. Perhaps if you stay in a nominal marriage not confronting any issues it is, but if you really work on the marriage, it's really hard. How can it be true both that reconciliation is for weaklings, and the reconciliation is too hard for most men? Yet you have been told both. You will have to decide what to believe. 

Is staying for the kids healthy? Well, I think it depends how you go. If you are going to have a negative environment, absolutely not. You need to work on things. But spend some time with Google and you will quickly discover a lot of studies showing that divorce does affect children, and that usually parents don't realise the extent of the effect. If you can take the sacrifice of sorting the marriage for the sake of the kids, it will make a difference to them. 

It was said to you that your kids are nearly 18, therefore divorce won't impact them. Having personally known teenagers who were scarred by their parents divorces tells me this is not true. Worse, having a friend of a friend who went to jail for putting a webcam in his stepdaughter's bedroom.....it's an unlikely occurrence, but it happens. My children never faced that risk because I stayed. 

My kids had a good upbringing because we stayed together. I know other families where it's worked out. And some where it hasn't.

Can you rebuild? Well it depends firstly on you. It hurts. A lot. Are you strong enough to try? It's not easy. There will always be some level of doubt and pain. Even now, when I am totally sure I made the right decision, decades later, it still hurts sometimes. But I believe it was worth it.

Secondly on your wife. Here's the big question. Is this an aberration for her, or what she is really like? If this is her, reconciliation will fail, because she has to be in. You can try and reconcile, and find down the track that her character made it impossible. Or you can walk away now, even though you could have rebuilt from this and had an amazing marriage. Either way, you just have to make your best choice. You can't know how it will turn out in advance.

OK....the point of this post was just to say "it's hard, but it can be done." Should you do it? That's up to you. 

One last piece of advice. Don't let your wife know everything you know. She is not trustworthy, so knowing more than she realises is a good way to check her honesty right now. And take legal advice on your options, because even if you decide to reconcile, you will still end up divorced if she chooses. You need to protect yourself. (This is one area where you need to be a strong person. You will need to be emotionally dependent on yourself from now on, and limit your dependence on your wife.)

Good luck.


----------



## pilotranger

Mr Right said:


> Your a better man than me Pilot, you know about the affair and kept your cool. I couldn't get within 1000 meters of the POS without trying to cave his scull. Since I been married and then had kids I have alway lived by the rule, there are 2 things you don't mess with
> 1. My Wife
> 2. My Family
> If you do all bets are off and I will use anything in my power to make your life a living hell, but you have to do it right so you don't get into trouble.
> 
> I probably would have walked up to him and used the "we need to talk in private" then taken him to somewhere like the toilets and he wouldn't be getting out of there without a trip to the hospital, and with no witnesses, "he came at me and I had to defend myself" but POS like that will rarely call the police because they don't want anyone to know that they are a POS Scumbag.


I'm calm now, but honestly I don't know how I would react if I confronted him. I saw him from afar in church. I didn't even know what the guy looked like until I saw his selfie he sent to my wife during their affair.


----------



## pilotranger

Wazza said:


> Hi Pilot Ranger,
> 
> I stayed in my marriage and rebuilt after my affair for the sake of the kids. It can be done.
> 
> Wife's affair was almost 25 years ago, and we are still together and happy.
> 
> Some on this thread say that reconciling is a mark of weakness. Perhaps if you stay in a nominal marriage not confronting any issues it is, but if you really work on the marriage, it's really hard. How can it be true both that reconciliation is for weaklings, and the reconciliation is too hard for most men? Yet you have been told both. You will have to decide what to believe.
> 
> Is staying for the kids healthy? Well, I think it depends how you go. If you are going to have a negative environment, absolutely not. You need to work on things. But spend some time with Google and you will quickly discover a lot of studies showing that divorce does affect children, and that usually parents don't realise the extent of the effect. If you can take the sacrifice of sorting the marriage for the sake of the kids, it will make a difference to them.
> 
> It was said to you that your kids are nearly 18, therefore divorce won't impact them. Having personally known teenagers who were scarred by their parents divorces tells me this is not true. Worse, having a friend of a friend who went to jail for putting a webcam in his stepdaughter's bedroom.....it's an unlikely occurrence, but it happens. My children never faced that risk because I stayed.
> 
> My kids had a good upbringing because we stayed together. I know other families where it's worked out. And some where it hasn't.
> 
> Can you rebuild? Well it depends firstly on you. It hurts. A lot. Are you strong enough to try? It's not easy. There will always be some level of doubt and pain. Even now, when I am totally sure I made the right decision, decades later, it still hurts sometimes. But I believe it was worth it.
> 
> Secondly on your wife. Here's the big question. Is this an aberration for her, or what she is really like? If this is her, reconciliation will fail, because she has to be in. You can try and reconcile, and find down the track that her character made it impossible. Or you can walk away now, even though you could have rebuilt from this and had an amazing marriage. Either way, you just have to make your best choice. You can't know how it will turn out in advance.
> 
> OK....the point of this post was just to say "it's hard, but it can be done." Should you do it? That's up to you.
> 
> One last piece of advice. Don't let your wife know everything you know. She is not trustworthy, so knowing more than she realises is a good way to check her honesty right now. And take legal advice on your options, because even if you decide to reconcile, you will still end up divorced if she chooses. You need to protect yourself. (This is one area where you need to be a strong person. You will need to be emotionally dependent on yourself from now on, and limit your dependence on your wife.)
> 
> Good luck.


I'm trying to figure out if this is TRULY who she is or if this is an aberration. If it's the former, I'm outta here. But if she's been in this cloud and fog for the past two years and her true self is wanting to come back, then I'm leaving a small crack at the door. But I emphasize small crack and leave no room for phuckups.


----------



## Wazza

pilotranger said:


> I'm trying to figure out if this is TRULY who she is or if this is an aberration. If it's the former, I'm outta here. But if she's been in this cloud and fog for the past two years and her true self is wanting to come back, then I'm leaving a small crack at the door. But I emphasize small crack and leave no room for phuckups.


Totally reasonable. But she isn't going to come out on her own. And she may need to be dragged kicking and screaming. Kind of like a drug addict who needs to kick their habit before they regain perspective.


----------



## Wolfman1968

pilotranger said:


> Is it a sign of "weakness" for a guy to stay in the marriage and try to work it out?


Yes, IF she is not being completely regretful, contrite and begging forgiveness.

From what you've posted, it's not 100% clear that the affair has definitely ended. 

THAT sort of situation is weakness. She's the offender. You're the betrayed. Reconciliation should occur on YOUR terms.


----------



## Wolfman1968

sidney2718 said:


> This is good advice. But I want to warn about one thing. It takes TWO to reconcile. She needs to buy into reconciliation, including taking the responsibility for the damage she's done.


:iagree:

Wow. I am actually agreeing with Sidney.


----------



## pilotranger

Wolfman1968 said:


> Yes, IF she is not being completely regretful, contrite and begging forgiveness.
> 
> From what you've posted, it's not 100% clear that the affair has definitely ended.
> 
> THAT sort of situation is weakness. She's the offender. You're the betrayed. Reconciliation should occur on YOUR terms.


I'm not going to reveal everything I know, i.e. pics, texts, etc. I'm just going to confront her about the condoms in her briefcase and let her give me as much details and then see if she's telling the truth and everything. I don't want her to know I know her email password, so I can occasionally check her messages. She was sloppy and didn't think I would be able to find out, which is how I got access.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mr Right said:


> I would start with her family and next week at Church, I would stand up in the congregation and spill the beans in front of EVERYONE. I wouldn't go screaming and yelling, just sit up the front and tell the father you have something to tell the congregation then calmly tell everyone while looking at the Scum Dog that this so called POS man has "covet another man's wife" namely yours and let the chips fall where they may. Tell everyone if you want proof you have it.


What is with this fixation about making a declaration in front of the congregation? It's not going to happen.

It's a Mass, not an episode of "Cheaters" or "Jerry Springer". They don't go in for hysterics or fistfights or public humiliation there.


----------



## Wolfman1968

pilotranger said:


> I'm not going to reveal everything I know, i.e. pics, texts, etc. I'm just going to confront her about the condoms in her briefcase and let her give me as much details and then see if she's telling the truth and everything. I don't want her to know I know her email password, so I can occasionally check her messages. She was sloppy and didn't think I would be able to find out, which is how I got access.


OK, but if she's not ready to come clean, she'll try to trickle truth you, most likely.

Maybe she "got them for her (female) friend"? Or maybe "as a joke at the office"? Whatever she thinks you'll believe.


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I'm not going to reveal everything I know, i.e. pics, texts, etc. I'm just going to confront her about the condoms in her briefcase and let her give me as much details and then see if she's telling the truth and everything. I don't want her to know I know her email password, so I can occasionally check her messages. She was sloppy and didn't think I would be able to find out, which is how I got access.


This is a good plan.

Ask and verify. She will lie, that's a given. Most cheaters only trickle truth what they know the BS knows about. One way to handle it is that if she does not tell you the whole truth, tell her that you know she is lying. She was two choices: 1) she tells you the truth NOW. She writes out a timeline with details. 2) You assume that the very worst that you can imagine has gone on and that is probably much worse than what really went on.

She can pick either one. You will base your next move on which one she picks.


----------



## Wazza

She WILL lie at first. You don't necessarily have to produce any evidence. Just knowing you are right communicates itself. 

And don't be gentle. Sadly, she needs to feel it. 

Here is the single best confrontation I ever read on TAM, from a guy whose (former) wife had a protracted affair with his (former) best friend. This guy played great poker. He knew they had been together behind his back, there were plenty of indicators that it had been sexual, but he didn't have proof.



bff said:


> As for the confrontation here's the full story:
> 
> 
> I was all amped up to confront her on Friday night, but her mother came over to our house and we all had dinner together. It was awful. She was being so nice to me – it was killing me inside to think that THIS is the woman that is cheating on me. Anyway, her mom stuck around too late and I was emotionally and mentally exhausted and knew that I couldn’t deal with it that night.
> The next morning, I almost started the conversation in bed. But, I couldn’t do it. So, I took a shower and headed downstairs for a cup of coffee. She eventually came down, and after a couple minutes of pacing around and readying myself for battle, I said, “Honey, there’s something that’s been bothering me for a while now that I need to talk to you about. What would you say is your relationship to OM?”
> She first said that he’s “like a brother”. I then asked how often she talked to him. To my surprise, she did say that it was “almost every day”. She immediately put the blame on him – “He’s very needy. He’s always calling me and saying, call me over lunch, call me on your way home.”
> So then I started asking her if she ever SEES him, face to face, when I’m not around. Again, to my surprise, there was a small admission. She said that very occasionally, when I was out of town for “a long time”, they would have dinner together.
> 
> We started going around in circles on this. She was saying how he is her closest friend, and she doesn’t have any other close friends, and that he isn’t so much like a brother but more like a girl friend or a “gay guy” friend. She even admitted, when I pushed, that yes, she might complain to him about me just like she would with any other girl friend. When I implied that this is an affair, she blew up at my use of that word.
> She started to come around and say, yes, she can now see that keeping this from me was wrong and why I might be upset about that, and she’s very, very sorry. I asked if they ever kissed and she said no.
> 
> So I kept pushing…
> 
> I told her that I know a lot more than she thinks I know, and that this is her one and last chance to be totally honest with me if she wants to save our marriage. So I started asking again about how often she would see him when I was out of town. She kept insisting that he only came over once in the last week –just brought dinner, stayed for 5 minutes and was gone. This was the thing she kept lying about that allowed me to keep saying to her, “I know you are lying about some of the things you’re telling me,” and I could keep asking questions.
> 
> So then I got her to admit that “just once” they kissed a little bit. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that they had sex “just once” a long time ago – it was terrible mistake that escalated and it never happened again. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that it was “2 times” that they had sex, of course, a long time ago. So then I said, that if she wants to earn my trust back, it needs to start NOW. I said we’re going to call the OM together, I’m going to say that you’ve come completely clean and told me the whole truth and we’re going to ask him the number of times. And if it is a small, specific number, then he should have the same number. I could tell by the look on her face, that this wasn’t going to play out well. So I said, “how many times?” She said nothing. I said, “more than 20?” She said, oh no, it was probably less than 20. So then I asked the last thing I needed to know. When was the most recent time? No answer. So I said, “Did you have sex with him in our new house on our new bed THIS WEEK?” She just stared at the ground and said, “I don’t want to answer that.” I said she didn’t have to say anything, she already answered it.
> I told her I needed to leave and was going to the other house. I went upstairs and got my suitcase, a couple toiletries and nothing else. I was in shock and not thinking straight. As I walked out the door, she was curled up in the middle of the floor. I said nothing, and walked out the door.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> Wolfman1968 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, IF she is not being completely regretful, contrite and begging forgiveness.
> 
> From what you've posted, it's not 100% clear that the affair has definitely ended.
> 
> THAT sort of situation is weakness. She's the offender. You're the betrayed. Reconciliation should occur on YOUR terms.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to reveal everything I know, i.e. pics, texts, etc. I'm just going to confront her about the condoms in her briefcase and let her give me as much details and then see if she's telling the truth and everything. I don't want her to know I know her email password, so I can occasionally check her messages. She was sloppy and didn't think I would be able to find out, which is how I got access.
Click to expand...

Never reveal your sources!

Dont ask her about the condoms, as she will lie. Do you know OMPOS name? Ask her something like when was last time you slept with POSOM , she will deny, ask her again telling her you know much more. Repeat again and again giving more info each time ... This will be hard, and you wont get much.

Then ask her for her phone and send a message to OM as you were her asking to call, you answer and tell him to tell you everything that your W just came clean and you are verifiying the story, tell him you have solid proof and you will contact his W if the stories are different. Ask him the same questions ( of course the answers will be different ) them informe him that he has 30 minuts to come clean to his wife before you call her...

Then kick your W out of your house, at least your bed, and tell her you are filing, go dark do 180 and wait.

Keep monitoring her email and in next church service give OMW some proof and introduce your self.

At this moment if you are not into R you can give OMW the emails as you wont need to hide your source anymore.

The other plan, confonting / exposing at the end of next service at curch is a good one but I wont wait any longer.


----------



## EleGirl

> Then kick your W out of your house, at least your bed, and tell her you are filing, go dark do 180 and wait.


Pilot, you cannot kick your wife out of the home you two share. It is her legal residence. If you try to kick her out and are forceful about it she can call the police and claim domestic abuse.

You cannot kick her out of the bed you to share. Trying to do this can lead to a physical fight and again, she can call the police.

You can ask her to do either. She would be a fool to leave the house. 

She might leave the bed you two share if you have enough room in your home for her to set up a room for herself.

Sadly, you might have to be the one to move is do not want to sleep in the same room with her.


----------



## Wazza

Wolfman1968 said:


> Reconciliation should occur on YOUR terms.


I would say rather that if you truly regard something as non-negotiable, it is. Compromise and discussion in secondary issues would not disturb me. 

For example, for me that Saturday mass is off limits. Not negotiable. Won't even discuss it.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Wazza said:


> I would say rather that if you truly regard something as non-negotiable, it is. Compromise and discussion in secondary issues would not disturb me.
> 
> For example, for me that Saturday mass is off limits. Not negotiable. Won't even discuss it.


Well, that quote of mine ("that reconciliation should be on YOUR terms") is in response to whether he was weak for trying to reconcile. She seems to be in control of the situation despite being the wayward wife, and, quite possibly, still having the affair.


----------



## Wazza

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, that quote of mine ("that reconciliation should be on YOUR terms") is in response to whether he was weak for trying to reconcile. She seems to be in control of the situation despite being the wayward wife, and, quite possibly, still having the affair.


All I was saying was "think about what your terms are". Better to go in with a defensible set and no backing down. 

I'm not sure that you and I disagree.


----------



## drifting on

EleGirl said:


> Pilot, you cannot kick your wife out of the home you two share. It is her legal residence. If you try to kick her out and are forceful about it she can call the police and claim domestic abuse.
> 
> You cannot kick her out of the bed you to share. Trying to do this can lead to a physical fight and again, she can call the police.
> 
> You can ask her to do either. She would be a fool to leave the house.
> 
> She might leave the bed you two share if you have enough room in your home for her to set up a room for herself.
> 
> Sadly, you might have to be the one to move is do not want to sleep in the same room with her.



Elegirl

I'm almost sorry to post this as I respect you. Pilotranger there is a way to kick her out of your bed, just never tell her you want her to leave the bed first. I'm almost ashamed to admit I did this but, I suffer from sleep apnea. A week after d-day I was angry all the time. I wake frequently during the night and I would kick her legs or push her away. After a few nights of this WW asked if I was doing this purposely. Of course I put on an academy award winning act of innocence and said I would talk to my doctor about it that day. That evening I came home and told WW that the doctor is concerned about my sleeping and that I may be violent in my sleep. After I went to sleep I awoke and did my usual pushing or kicking, the following night she moved into the spare room. I'm still not proud of that but...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

drifting on said:


> Elegirl
> 
> I'm almost sorry to post this as I respect you. Pilotranger there is a way to kick her out of your bed, just never tell her you want her to leave the bed first. I'm almost ashamed to admit I did this but, I suffer from sleep apnea. A week after d-day I was angry all the time. I wake frequently during the night and I would kick her legs or push her away. After a few nights of this WW asked if I was doing this purposely. Of course I put on an academy award winning act of innocence and said I would talk to my doctor about it that day. That evening I came home and told WW that the doctor is concerned about my sleeping and that I may be violent in my sleep. After I went to sleep I awoke and did my usual pushing or kicking, the following night she moved into the spare room. I'm still not proud of that but...


I have sleep apnea too and the leg movement that I am not aware of when I sleep. (getting old just sucks) So I get what you did.

Yea that is one way to do it. I'm not sure you should be ashamed of it. You achieved what you felt you needed to without things getting out of hand.

MY point above is not that Piolet should not want to have her out of the bed or the house. I just want to make sure he does not do something that ends up with him hauled out of house for some nonsense.


----------



## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> Pilot, you cannot kick your wife out of the home you two share. It is her legal residence. If you try to kick her out and are forceful about it she can call the police and claim domestic abuse.
> 
> You cannot kick her out of the bed you to share. Trying to do this can lead to a physical fight and again, she can call the police.
> 
> You can ask her to do either. She would be a fool to leave the house.
> 
> She might leave the bed you two share if you have enough room in your home for her to set up a room for herself.
> 
> Sadly, you might have to be the one to move is do not want to sleep in the same room with her.


While what you say is technically true, I don't recall anyone here having the popo called on them for telling their spouse to leave or telling them to sleep on the couch.

The best advice is to get a var and record the whole thing to have something to show the police is she makes false claims.


----------



## Suspecting2014

EleGirl said:


> Then kick your W out of your house, at least your bed, and tell her you are filing, go dark do 180 and wait.
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot, you cannot kick your wife out of the home you two share. It is her legal residence. If you try to kick her out and are forceful about it she can call the police and claim domestic abuse.
> 
> You cannot kick her out of the bed you to share. Trying to do this can lead to a physical fight and again, she can call the police.
> 
> You can ask her to do either. She would be a fool to leave the house.
> 
> She might leave the bed you two share if you have enough room in your home for her to set up a room for herself.
> 
> Sadly, you might have to be the one to move is do not want to sleep in the same room with her.
Click to expand...

Do not move out!!

Btw I didnt mean force her out your house or bed, but you must tell her to leave. As EleGirl pointed out there is nothing more you can do but ask.

Do not leave your house as this may seem like child abandonement


----------



## G.J.

> Originally Posted by bff View Post
> As for the confrontation here's the full story:
> 
> 
> I was all amped up to confront her on Friday night, but her mother came over to our house and we all had dinner together. It was awful. She was being so nice to me – it was killing me inside to think that THIS is the woman that is cheating on me. Anyway, her mom stuck around too late and I was emotionally and mentally exhausted and knew that I couldn’t deal with it that night.
> The next morning, I almost started the conversation in bed. But, I couldn’t do it. So, I took a shower and headed downstairs for a cup of coffee. She eventually came down, and after a couple minutes of pacing around and readying myself for battle, I said, “Honey, there’s something that’s been bothering me for a while now that I need to talk to you about. What would you say is your relationship to OM?”
> She first said that he’s “like a brother”. I then asked how often she talked to him. To my surprise, she did say that it was “almost every day”. She immediately put the blame on him – “He’s very needy. He’s always calling me and saying, call me over lunch, call me on your way home.”
> So then I started asking her if she ever SEES him, face to face, when I’m not around. Again, to my surprise, there was a small admission. She said that very occasionally, when I was out of town for “a long time”, they would have dinner together.
> 
> We started going around in circles on this. She was saying how he is her closest friend, and she doesn’t have any other close friends, and that he isn’t so much like a brother but more like a girl friend or a “gay guy” friend. She even admitted, when I pushed, that yes, she might complain to him about me just like she would with any other girl friend. When I implied that this is an affair, she blew up at my use of that word.
> She started to come around and say, yes, she can now see that keeping this from me was wrong and why I might be upset about that, and she’s very, very sorry. I asked if they ever kissed and she said no.
> 
> So I kept pushing…
> 
> I told her that I know a lot more than she thinks I know, and that this is her one and last chance to be totally honest with me if she wants to save our marriage. So I started asking again about how often she would see him when I was out of town. She kept insisting that he only came over once in the last week –just brought dinner, stayed for 5 minutes and was gone. This was the thing she kept lying about that allowed me to keep saying to her, “I know you are lying about some of the things you’re telling me,” and I could keep asking questions.
> 
> So then I got her to admit that “just once” they kissed a little bit. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that they had sex “just once” a long time ago – it was terrible mistake that escalated and it never happened again. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that it was “2 times” that they had sex, of course, a long time ago. So then I said, that if she wants to earn my trust back, it needs to start NOW. I said we’re going to call the OM together, I’m going to say that you’ve come completely clean and told me the whole truth and we’re going to ask him the number of times. And if it is a small, specific number, then he should have the same number. I could tell by the look on her face, that this wasn’t going to play out well. So I said, “how many times?” She said nothing. I said, “more than 20?” She said, oh no, it was probably less than 20. So then I asked the last thing I needed to know. When was the most recent time? No answer. So I said, “Did you have sex with him in our new house on our new bed THIS WEEK?” She just stared at the ground and said, “I don’t want to answer that.” I said she didn’t have to say anything, she already answered it.
> I told her I needed to leave and was going to the other house. I went upstairs and got my suitcase, a couple toiletries and nothing else. I was in shock and not thinking straight. As I walked out the door, she was curled up in the middle of the floor. I said nothing, and walked out the door.


I had to confront with NO EVIDENCE as well with my wife who had an EA
My scenario went like this

'I have discovered you have been having an EA/affair/with X

*'I' don't want you to say anything* until I have finished talking but what you say will lead me to my final decision on what I do from today, I CAN FORGIVE ANTHTHING AS I LOVE YOU BUT IF YOU LIE THAT WILL BE A DEAL BREAKER'

Then tell her about your feelings the last few months and you have recently suspected that she was having an affair (don't allow her to interrupt)

Pad it out with how your suspicion has felt at times heart wrenching as you LOVED (past tense) her so much etc

Then a few weeks ago you were able to get concrete proof and it has left you devastated and completely alone

Tell her you will now ask her some questions and *if she lies *to any, then as far as you are concerned the marriage is over

Then ask her direct questions

1.'When did it start'
2.etc.

I used this technique knowing less than you and it worked for me when I suspected things weren't right 

You will have to be confident in doing this and you must make her be quiet until you want her input.
She will deflect but zero in on what you know or what little crumbs she slips out and keep probing AS YOU KEEP TELLING HER YOU KNOW but want to hear it from her as the lies stop now

she is unaware what you know 

Its all about progression from the answers you get

You are bluffing her that you know a lot when you know little

If done right it will reveal more content at each stage 

The 
I CAN FORGIVE ANTHTHING AS I LOVE YOU BUT IF YOU LIE THAT WILL BE A DEAL BREAKER'
She needs to see an opt out from her actions...so keep reassuring of that
Doesn't matter as you can decide at a later date if it was a deal breaker


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Please, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html and protect yourself and the kids!

Best wishes


----------



## pilotranger

Wazza said:


> I would say rather that if you truly regard something as non-negotiable, it is. Compromise and discussion in secondary issues would not disturb me.
> 
> For example, for me that Saturday mass is off limits. Not negotiable. Won't even discuss it.


There's a new church that is opening up 5 minutes from our house versus 20 minutes to the current one. I'm going to demand that we go to this new church (which I'm part of a committee to help build it). 

I now know why she has been wanting to go the the church that's 20 minutes away versus the one right around the corner from us.


----------



## chaos

pilotranger said:


> I'm going to demand that we go to this new church (which I'm part of a committee to help build it).


Care to share more details of your "demand" with us? Maybe we could help you improve on them.


----------



## drifting on

pilotranger said:


> There's a new church that is opening up 5 minutes from our house versus 20 minutes to the current one. I'm going to demand that we go to this new church (which I'm part of a committee to help build it).
> 
> I now know why she has been wanting to go the the church that's 20 minutes away versus the one right around the corner from us.



Pilotranger

This is just me and what I would do. But this Saturday get excited about church and rush your WW that you need to leave earlier than normal. Then get to church and hang around the vestibule until OM arrives. Grab your wife's hand and follow them to their pew. After he sits sit down next to him. Sit so close your touching, look him in the eye for a good few minutes, then smile kindly and strike up she conversation with OMW. Compliment her on what she is wearing and ask where she purchased the clothing. If OM says anything tell him you wanted to buy it for your WW so he is already familiar in how to take it off her. Watch his expression and tell him you know and have evidence. Give him a clipping of an email. 

Sit through the sermon and hand him a note that you have much more than what he read and it will be in his wife's hands before you leave the sanctuary. Watch him squirm, look around like a defeated little boy that got picked last in gym class. Tap your ww to keep looking over at him. Make sure she sees how pathetic he is. Give your WW an envelope too, tell her exposure has just begun and walk away. I would actually leave my WW at the church.

But that's me, or an idea if you want to place a bomb in fantasyland.


----------



## Nucking Futs

drifting on said:


> Pilotranger
> 
> This is just me and what I would do. But this Saturday get excited about church and rush your WW that you need to leave earlier than normal. Then get to church and hang around the vestibule until OM arrives. Grab your wife's hand and follow them to their pew. After he sits sit down next to him. Sit so close your touching, look him in the eye for a good few minutes, then smile kindly and strike up she conversation with OMW. Compliment her on what she is wearing and ask where she purchased the clothing. If OM says anything tell him you wanted to buy it for your WW so he is already familiar in how to take it off her. Watch his expression and tell him you know and have evidence. Give him a clipping of an email.
> 
> Sit through the sermon and hand him a note that you have much more than what he read and it will be in his wife's hands before you leave the sanctuary. Watch him squirm, look around like a defeated little boy that got picked last in gym class. Tap your ww to keep looking over at him. Make sure she sees how pathetic he is. Give your WW an envelope too, tell her exposure has just begun and walk away. I would actually leave my WW at the church.
> 
> But that's me, or an idea if you want to place a bomb in fantasyland.


Sounds like a lot more effort than I'd be willing to put into it.


----------



## cpacan

Leave out the drama, enough to think about even without it.


----------



## Suspecting2014

drifting on said:


> pilotranger said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a new church that is opening up 5 minutes from our house versus 20 minutes to the current one. I'm going to demand that we go to this new church (which I'm part of a committee to help build it).
> 
> I now know why she has been wanting to go the the church that's 20 minutes away versus the one right around the corner from us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilotranger
> 
> This is just me and what I would do. But this Saturday get excited about church and rush your WW that you need to leave earlier than normal. Then get to church and hang around the vestibule until OM arrives. Grab your wife's hand and follow them to their pew. After he sits sit down next to him. Sit so close your touching, look him in the eye for a good few minutes, then smile kindly and strike up she conversation with OMW. Compliment her on what she is wearing and ask where she purchased the clothing. If OM says anything tell him you wanted to buy it for your WW so he is already familiar in how to take it off her. Watch his expression and tell him you know and have evidence. Give him a clipping of an email.
> 
> Sit through the sermon and hand him a note that you have much more than what he read and it will be in his wife's hands before you leave the sanctuary. Watch him squirm, look around like a defeated little boy that got picked last in gym class. Tap your ww to keep looking over at him. Make sure she sees how pathetic he is. Give your WW an envelope too, tell her exposure has just begun and walk away. I would actually leave my WW at the church.
> 
> But that's me, or an idea if you want to place a bomb in fantasyland.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, 

As you can read on tam, the harder you hit the best your chances are to R!!!

When BS goes slow without exposing, forgivig the affair before WS asks for it, the WS keeps into the fog as this behavior just push the WS more and more to the AP. After that when BS gets the reality and file for D the WS returns begging. 

The WS use to take BS for granted and believes the marriage will be there forever. When BS shows that can live without WS and is willing to everything changes.

Read and learn,


----------



## pilotranger

Suspecting2014 said:


> Never reveal your sources!
> 
> Dont ask her about the condoms, as she will lie. Do you know OMPOS name? Ask her something like when was last time you slept with POSOM , she will deny, ask her again telling her you know much more. Repeat again and again giving more info each time ... This will be hard, and you wont get much.
> 
> Then ask her for her phone and send a message to OM as you were her asking to call, you answer and tell him to tell you everything that your W just came clean and you are verifiying the story, tell him you have solid proof and you will contact his W if the stories are different. Ask him the same questions ( of course the answers will be different ) them informe him that he has 30 minuts to come clean to his wife before you call her...
> 
> Then kick your W out of your house, at least your bed, and tell her you are filing, go dark do 180 and wait.
> 
> Keep monitoring her email and in next church service give OMW some proof and introduce your self.
> 
> At this moment if you are not into R you can give OMW the emails as you wont need to hide your source anymore.
> 
> The other plan, confonting / exposing at the end of next service at curch is a good one but I wont wait any longer.


She won't be able to lie about the condoms. I took pics of them after I found them in briefcase. Yeah, she can make up some dumb excuse, but it's not going to fly.

When I confront her, this is what the conversation is going to be:

Me: We need to talk. Remember when you told me in April 2014 after our big blowup you "love me but not in love with me." Well, 95% of spouses that say that is in an affair. Look me in the eyes and tell me you're not having an affair.

Spouse: I'm not having an affair (weakly, instead of strongly objecting - since a person that has nothing to hide will vehemently deny it).

Me: Are you aware I do have evidence, so this is your chance to come clean.

Spouse: what evidence? you're bluffing.

Me: I have a friend who is a PI that owes me a favor and he did some digging for me. have damaging pics of you and OM on November 15, 2013 (I really don't have any pics of that day, but I know they were meeting that day for their "hookie day" based on their texts and she saying "can't wait till we meet Friday).

Then we'll see what she says from there. I already know his name, what he looks like, how many kids he has, his address, etc. I have the evidence if I need to use that if she does not budge. Evidence includes, sexting, pics of her, pics of him, emails, etc.

Will expose the affair to OMW after I confront my wife. Will be vague with evidence, but enough for smoking gun and not reveal my sources (I still want access to the source so I can monitor on-going IF we end up R).

Meeting attorney tomorrow before I confront wife to see what legal options are and ask questions on my rights etc.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Let her feel that you have much more info.

So, 

When and how are you confronting exposing?


----------



## chaos

Nobody knows your wife like you do, so I'm going to ask you if you can give us some info on her personality. Is she usually a fair minded person or is she very judgmental of others? Does she apologize when she is wrong? Is she very loving wife or an emotional cold fish to you? 

The reason why I'm asking these questions is for you to do a self assessment on the person you are married to. It is very important for you to verify if this affair of hers is or is not an exit affair. If it is then you have a Herculean task ahead of you IF you want to try to save and rebuild the marriage.

Whatever you decide, you must be at peace with yourself that your decision is the best of all possible ones.


----------



## pilotranger

chaos said:


> Nobody knows your wife like you do, so I'm going to ask you if you can give us some info on her personality. Is she usually a fair minded person or is she very judgmental of others? Does she apologize when she is wrong? Is she very loving wife or an emotional cold fish to you?
> 
> The reason why I'm asking these questions is for you to do a self assessment on the person you are married to. It is very important for you to verify if this affair of hers is or is not an exit affair. If it is then you have a Herculean task ahead of you IF you want to try to save and rebuild the marriage.
> 
> Whatever you decide, you must be at peace with yourself that your decision is the best of all possible ones.


She's usually very fair minded person. She's stubborn and does not apologize the traditional way someone would, but does realize when she is wrong. She used to be a loving wife but has been cold fish lately.


----------



## pilotranger

Suspecting2014 said:


> Let her feel that you have much more info.
> 
> So,
> 
> When and how are you confronting exposing?


Confronting this week, probably Wed or Thur. I'm meeting with attorney tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## chaos

pilotranger said:


> Confronting this week, probably Wed or Thur. I'm meeting with attorney tomorrow afternoon.


You may want to consider possibly confronting the OMW with all the evidence, as well as friends and family with pics of the condoms in her briefcase, before you confront your wife. This will make it very difficult for her to spin a tale of marital abuse and neglect from you and how she and the OM are nothing more than "friends", and thus gather full support from family and friends. As I said, something to consider.


----------



## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> While what you say is technically true, I don't recall anyone here having the popo called on them for telling their spouse to leave or telling them to sleep on the couch.
> 
> The best advice is to get a var and record the whole thing to have something to show the police is she makes false claims.


I do recall a couple of cases on here.

I know on one in real life.


----------



## EleGirl

chaos said:


> You may want to consider possibly confronting the OMW with all the evidence, as well as friends and family with pics of the condoms in her briefcase, before you confront your wife. This will make it very difficult for her to spin a tale of marital abuse and neglect from you and how she and the OM are nothing more than "friends", and thus gather full support from family and friends. As I said, something to consider.


Just a thought. I not sure that a picture of condoms in a brief case would be taken as absolute proof my other. Why? I is too easy for a person to set up that photo. How would anyone looking at the photo even know it's her briefcase.

Emails and photos might be a lot better.


----------



## drifting on

Nucking Futs said:


> Sounds like a lot more effort than I'd be willing to put into it.



I take it as you have invaded my family. Something I don't take kindly too. Everybody is different but I would feel extreme pleasure to watch him squirm.


----------



## pilotranger

EleGirl said:


> Just a thought. I not sure that a picture of condoms in a brief case would be taken as absolute proof my other. Why? I is too easy for a person to set up that photo. How would anyone looking at the photo even know it's her briefcase.
> 
> Emails and photos might be a lot better.


I would not show the OMW the condoms as proof. Would show naked pics of OM that he sent to my wife, with his cell number as the sender. How's that for a smoking gun?


----------



## the guy

Have you thought about exposing the A to OMW 1st then confronting your WW?

My thinking is after the exposure let your WW confront you. She will to, cuz we all know OM will be calling her right after his wife kicks him out.

What ever you decide expose 1st or confront 1st ......just make sure you never tell your old lady that you will be exposing this A.

The only plus side to confronting 1st is you might....slim but you might get her to say "I will do anything" ......

Then when you do expose you can see if your wife really means it.


Either way exposing to OMW will tell you how remorseful your WW really is. She will either want to protect OM or except this exposure as a consequence and own it.


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> I would not show the OMW the condoms as proof. Would show naked pics of OM that he sent to my wife, with his cell number as the sender. How's that for a smoking gun?


It is only proof that he sent the pics. She could deny it, and say he sent them out of the blue, and he could deny it to his W as he sent it to the wrong number accidentally. 

You are giving cheaters too much credit, as obviously you haven't experienced it first hand before to see how far they will go once they commit! Believe me, all logic and rational goes out the windows and they will claim the most outlandish sh!t when in the throws of an A.


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> She won't be able to lie about the condoms. I took pics of them after I found them in briefcase. Yeah, she can make up some dumb excuse, but it's not going to fly.
> 
> 
> Spouse: I'm not having an affair (weakly, instead of strongly objecting - since a person that has nothing to hide will vehemently deny it).


Once again I'll repeat this:
You are giving cheaters too much credit, as obviously you haven't experienced it first hand before to see how far they will go once they commit! Believe me, all logic and rational goes out the windows and they will claim the most outlandish sh!t when in the throws of an A.

Many will deny, deny, deny, and they will also swear on their loved one's graves and lives that the BS story they are feeding you is the truth. Sometimes, they will even have you convinced that you are going slightly crazy and things you know as the truth never happened or were even possible. Be prepared for it and if it doesn't happen consider yourself one of the lucky ones.


----------



## the guy

Ya tough not to reveal your souce...but in the end waywards have a choice to go deeper underground and change pass words or be trans parent.

The OMW will surely want proof which will point to WW email. It will be up to your WW and how much remorse she has by locking down her email or not.


----------



## the guy

You mentioned a break up letter that you are not sure she sent or not.....

With regards to your 1st question when confronting your wife....I think you should word it as such...." are you *still* sleeping with other man.?" 

Don't even worry about what she says next, just ask the next question...."how many men have you slept with?"

Again her reply will most likely be a lie.

3rd question is "are you in love?"

"Have you ever worried about getting pregnent?"

"How long has this last affair lasted?"

The last question should be "will you tell me their names?"


The line of questioning already tells her you know. Its up to her to come clean and get this monkey off her back. I also suggest you keep the questioning in a plural tence, you might find out more then you know.

At the end that's when you look her dead in the eye and inform her she just failed miserably...not only as a wife but as a women with no moral character!


Unless she does come clean ...then you can tell her you both have something to work with.


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> Me: I have a friend who is a PI that owes me a favor and he did some digging for me. have damaging pics of you and OM on November 15, 2013 (I really don't have any pics of that day, but I know they were meeting that day for their "hookie day" based on their texts and she saying "can't wait till we meet Friday).


:toast:

This is outstanding. As others have said never admit that you have the texts. Make her assume that you must have a PI.


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I would not show the OMW the condoms as proof. Would show naked pics of OM that he sent to my wife, with his cell number as the sender. How's that for a smoking gun?


I agree. That is a smoking gun.


----------



## EleGirl

Squeakr said:


> It is only proof that he sent the pics. She could deny it, and say he sent them out of the blue, and he could deny it to his W as he sent it to the wrong number accidentally.
> 
> You are giving cheaters too much credit, as obviously you haven't experienced it first hand before to see how far they will go once they commit! Believe me, all logic and rational goes out the windows and they will claim the most outlandish sh!t when in the throws of an A.


Good point... if there are one or two very incriminating emails.. add them to the picture.


If you (Pilot) have a cell phone bill showing them talking long hours and/or texting a large number of times. Add that to the pile of evidence you give the OMW.


----------



## Trying95

pilotranger said:


> She won't be able to lie about the condoms. I took pics of them after I found them in briefcase. Yeah, she can make up some dumb excuse, but it's not going to fly.
> 
> When I confront her, this is what the conversation is going to be:
> 
> Me: We need to talk. Remember when you told me in April 2014 after our big blowup you "love me but not in love with me." Well, 95% of spouses that say that is in an affair. Look me in the eyes and tell me you're not having an affair.
> 
> Spouse: I'm not having an affair (weakly, instead of strongly objecting - since a person that has nothing to hide will vehemently deny it).
> 
> Me: Are you aware I do have evidence, so this is your chance to come clean.
> 
> Spouse: what evidence? you're bluffing.
> 
> Me: I have a friend who is a PI that owes me a favor and he did some digging for me. have damaging pics of you and OM on November 15, 2013 (I really don't have any pics of that day, but I know they were meeting that day for their "hookie day" based on their texts and she saying "can't wait till we meet Friday).
> 
> Then we'll see what she says from there. I already know his name, what he looks like, how many kids he has, his address, etc. I have the evidence if I need to use that if she does not budge. Evidence includes, sexting, pics of her, pics of him, emails, etc.
> 
> Will expose the affair to OMW after I confront my wife. Will be vague with evidence, but enough for smoking gun and not reveal my sources (I still want access to the source so I can monitor on-going IF we end up R).
> 
> Meeting attorney tomorrow before I confront wife to see what legal options are and ask questions on my rights etc.


If she does figure out that you have access to her email you could go into her email account right now, set permissions to have it also forward to an email for you. She probably would never catch this setting. Then if she does change password, you can still see everything going through her inbox.

I monitor my daughter's email this way, only she knows that Mom gets a copy of all of her emails.


----------



## Forest

Pilot-

I wonder if she'd actually believe you have pics from 2013 and have not confronted her yet?

Any more recent dates?

I also like the idea of going to the OM's wife first, or maybe at least bluffing that you've talked with her. At any rate, you are thinking things out well. A good plan is always better than no plan.


----------



## GusPolinski

Forest said:


> Pilot-
> 
> I wonder if she'd actually believe you have pics from 2013 and have not confronted her yet?
> 
> Any more recent dates?


I had the same thought.



Forest said:


> *I also like the idea of going to the OM's wife first*, or maybe at least bluffing that you've talked with her. At any rate, you are thinking things out well. A good plan is always better than no plan.


Ditto.


----------



## GusPolinski

Trying95 said:


> If she does figure out that you have access to her email you could go into her email account right now, set permissions to have it also forward to an email for you. She probably would never catch this setting. Then if she does change password, you can still see everything going through her inbox.
> 
> I monitor my daughter's email this way, only she knows that Mom gets a copy of all of her emails.


If she happens to use Gmail via a web browser, she'll know that this has been enabled as soon as she logs in. Not sure about Hotmail/Outlook.com, Yahoo, or any of the others.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> Good point... if there are one or two very incriminating emails.. add them to the picture.
> 
> 
> *If you (Pilot) have a cell phone bill showing them talking long hours and/or texting a large number of times. Add that to the pile of evidence you give the OMW.*


:iagree:


----------



## pilotranger

Forest said:


> Pilot-
> 
> I wonder if she'd actually believe you have pics from 2013 and have not confronted her yet?
> 
> Any more recent dates?
> 
> I also like the idea of going to the OM's wife first, or maybe at least bluffing that you've talked with her. At any rate, you are thinking things out well. A good plan is always better than no plan.


Good point on that - I could show my wife the condoms first and have her explain WHY THE HELL does she have two condoms in her briefcase, when we're not having sex at home, so YOU MUST be having sex with someone. Can you explain that wife?

Or I could say the November 15, 2013 pics are just ONE of many I have, just picked one out of a pile.


----------



## LongWalk

What do you know about OM's wife?

Have you studied her Facebook profile?

Do priests ask questions in confession? Can one tip them off to probe adulterers?


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Good point on that - I could show my wife the condoms first and have her explain WHY THE HELL does she have two condoms in her briefcase, when we're not having sex at home, so YOU MUST be having sex with someone. Can you explain that wife?
> 
> Or I could say the November 15, 2013 pics are just ONE of many I have, just picked one out of a pile.


I wouldn't make reference to magically having pics from well over a year ago. It's just not plausible to think that either you were somehow able to conjure the pics or that you've just been sitting on the info for over a year.

Or did you mean 2014...?


----------



## pilotranger

LongWalk said:


> What do you know about OM's wife?
> 
> Have you studied her Facebook profile?
> 
> Do priests ask questions in confession? Can one tip them off to probe adulterers?


I only saw the OM's wife for the first time at church the other day. Don't know her Facebook page, not sure if she has one.

Priests are very tight lipped in confessions. What they hear in confessions stays with him.


----------



## Chaparral

pilotranger said:


> I only saw the OM's wife for the first time at church the other day. Don't know her Facebook page, not sure if she has one.
> 
> Priests are very tight lipped in confessions. What they hear in confessions stays with him.


Could you talk to the priest and tell him whats going on though after you confront and expose. The information would not be from a cnfession and you could ask his help.


----------



## Chaparral

What is the most current information you have that you can prove the date of? That she has cut you off probably indicates she is still in an affair with someone.


----------



## Chaparral

pilotranger said:


> I only saw the OM's wife for the first time at church the other day. Don't know her Facebook page, not sure if she has one.
> 
> Priests are very tight lipped in confessions. What they hear in confessions stays with him.


Try googleing his name, you might get information about his wife. Some folks have used spokeo.com and other sites to get that kind of information but it is kind of hit or miss.


----------



## pilotranger

Chaparral said:


> Try googleing his name, you might get information about his wife. Some folks have used spokeo.com and other sites to get that kind of information but it is kind of hit or miss.


I know where they live, have their address (looked up on the county tax appraisal website) thanks to a poster on this thread. Found the address and is about 5 minutes away from where I live. I just have to time it where the OMW is home and OM is at work. From my understanding, they have an autistic child so she is stay at home mom.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> *I know where they live, have their address (looked up on the county tax appraisal website) thanks to a poster on this thread.* Found the address and is about 5 minutes away from where I live. I just have to time it where the OMW is home and OM is at work. From my understanding, they have an autistic child so she is stay at home mom.


I won't lie... I do feel _sort of_ creepy about that, but still...

:smthumbup:


----------



## vellocet

pilotranger said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I want to get some opinions out there on couples who stay together (mainly for the sake of the children) after a spouse was caught cheating. There's probably 4 routes a couple can take:
> 
> 1. Divorce *<-- What I recommend if the thought of staying with a cheater just seems too much to bear, even if you do think you can work hard to put away the mind movies and such*
> 
> 2. Counseling to try and work it out *<-- Its an option. I don't really believe in counseling, but others might have found it useful*
> 
> 3. Stay together for the children and basically have a non-emotional and non-physical marriage. *<-- There are people here that have said this is exactly what they'll do, coupled with #4 below and divorce when they are adults*
> 
> 4. Divorce later once the children are older (18+).





> Based on her emails and texts, she's in love with this SOB and told him she would leave me, but not been able to do it.


Based on this, I'd make the decision for her, but you have to do what you feel you need to do, for whatever reason.

I would say that staying for the kids is the wrong reason, IMO.




> Maybe having second thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, she's not going to fall in love with me again, she's beyond the turning point. Honestly, I think I am too.


I wouldn't waste any of my life waiting til the kids turn 18. I recommend ending it if this is the way you feel and you think she feels the same way.

Of course there is always the chance that if you file for divorce that she will get scared and change her tune, but I wouldn't let that change your mind if you do decide to divorce. She has had another man in and out of her more times than you can probably count while she was married to you. If you are like me, you want to puke just looking at her.

So question is, what is it YOU want to do?


----------



## vellocet

LongWalk said:


> Well, OP converted to Catholicism and I thought he might need some humor to survive what he is going through. Sorry if any Catholics found offense.


I think most people here realized it was just a joke. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## LongWalk

pilotranger said:


> I know where they live, have their address (looked up on the county tax appraisal website) thanks to a poster on this thread. Found the address and is about 5 minutes away from where I live. I just have to time it where the OMW is home and OM is at work. From my understanding, they have an *autistic child* so she is stay at home mom.


Couples with handicapped children divorce at a higher rate.

Before you meet her, you might draft a timeline of the affair. If you both confront at the same time, you can swap notes. In fact, you could even share a few questions and talk before your wife and OM can try and cook up a joint venture gas-lighting company:

1) Who chased whom?
2) Who arranged the first date?
3) When did they first have intercourse?
4) Did they discuss leaving their spouses?
5) Did OM cut his wife off sexually? Did he complain to your wife that she was frigid?
6) Where did they meet?
etc.


----------



## the guy

You can always wait until the next mass, sit next to OMW and hand the pic with a note telling her "you found this on Mrs. Pilotranger's (my wife) cell phone and it's been going on for years!".

All of you can sit together and wait until the end of mass....know would that be an interesting service.

Hell try to get a seat behind OMW and while kneeling wait for her to sit and hand her the pic.


----------



## the guy

Exposing 1st will have the most effective confrontation without even confronting WW.....plus you don't even have to listen to WW bull crap.


----------



## MattMatt

If you do visit her take an independent witness and have a wire on yourself to record what happens.


----------



## pilotranger

vellocet said:


> Based on this, I'd make the decision for her, but you have to do what you feel you need to do, for whatever reason.
> 
> I would say that staying for the kids is the wrong reason, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't waste any of my life waiting til the kids turn 18. I recommend ending it if this is the way you feel and you think she feels the same way.
> 
> Of course there is always the chance that if you file for divorce that she will get scared and change her tune, but I wouldn't let that change your mind if you do decide to divorce. She has had another man in and out of her more times than you can probably count while she was married to you. If you are like me, you want to puke just looking at her.
> 
> So question is, what is it YOU want to do?


I'm on an emotional roller coaster - one day I want the easy way out and divorce. Then a couple days later, I want to R and see a counselor to try and work it out on my terms with zero tolerance for error. 

I posted earlier I wanted to see if this is an aberration or if this is truly who she really is. She's going to have to reinvent the words repent and remorse through her words and more important her ACTIONS to our marriage and to me in order for me to leave that small crack on the door open. Even so, it's no guarantee I would keep her. Just the visuals of them doing the things they described is just sickening. Another man in and out of my wife.....MY WIFE!!


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I'm on an emotional roller coaster - one day I want the easy way out and divorce. Then a couple days later, I want to R and see a counselor to try and work it out on my terms with zero tolerance for error.
> 
> I posted earlier I wanted to see if this is an aberration or if this is truly who she really is. She's going to have to reinvent the words repent and remorse through her words and more important her ACTIONS to our marriage and to me in order for me to leave that small crack on the door open. Even so, it's no guarantee I would keep her. Just the visuals of them doing the things they described is just sickening. Another man in and out of my wife.....MY WIFE!!



Of course you are on an emotional roller coaster. You are in the early days of all this. A lot of counselors suggest that the BS see a doctor about getting on anti depressants to calm down the emotional roller coaster. This would most likely seriously reduce the mind movies.


----------



## the guy

You are jumping the gun when it comes to even thinking about R.....you have to confront first...well confront again.

What I mean is she could deny, deny, deny no matter what proof you have. She might tell you what you want to hear only to go back to the OM in a few day/week. 

Hopefully she face this confrontation and owns it and excepts the consequences and is truly remorseful, only then can you even consider R.


----------



## the guy

Going into this next confrontation you will need to get R out of your mind.
She needs to see a calm confident guy that can and will let her go.

Don't even mention R or wanting to work things out....hell if you start crying you are really screwed so if that happens then walk away.

Confront, say what you gotta say and then walk away.....give her time to think about what she is about to loose.

Give it a day and let her contact you....then you can talk about R....Hell after 2 yrs she may not even want to R. and choose the OM.

Again I strongly suggest you expose 1st...that also take away the OM being an option for her while he tries to save his own marriage.


----------



## dgtal

Prepare the exposure package (all copies), drive to their house, make sure the POSOM is not there, knock the door and tell the OMW you hired a PI and this is the evidence of her husband screwing your wife. Tell her that he will face serious consequences if he doesn't back off. Confront your wife right after. Dont tell your wife you told the OMW. Do not reveal the source of info. You will feel very pleased after this. You wont regret it. You will feel stronger. My own experience. P.s. don't think about what to or what not to include in that package. Put everything in there, she will walk inside and will dig inside the envelope. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

How many days so far have you known and not done anything?


----------



## pilotranger

WorkingOnMe said:


> How many days so far has you known and not done anything?


Since Friday.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

pilotranger said:


> Since Friday.



Man I don't know how you are able to do that. I know getting yourself lined out is best but I couldn't do it.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Pilotranger, here's my feeling about this.

If you go into this with the expectation that there will be a Reconciliation, I think you will compromise yourself too much and risk rugsweeping.

On the other hand, if you go into this expecting that there will be no Reconciliation, I think you may be better off. Only then, when she realizes the jig is up and she is going to lose her marriage, might there be a chance that she would show true remorse. For me, she would not only have to be admitting all, completely honest and transparent, with the appropriate wailing, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, but she would need to openly burn the OM and betray him before I would even THINK about Reconciliation. Even then, I probably wouldn't be able to do it myself, but if a BH was thinking about R at all, I would advise that level of remorse before considering or even hoping for it.

And if she never reaches that level of remorse, then you know that this is too far gone for Reconciliation.

Just have the right attitude so you don't compromise.


----------



## GusPolinski

WorkingOnMe said:


> Man I don't know how you are able to do that. I know getting yourself lined out is best but I couldn't do it.


Word.

Actually, I might be able to do it _NOW_. But 2 1/2 years ago...? No f*cking way.

Hell, it took me all of 10 seconds to get evidence of an EA, and I wasn't even _really_ looking. Less than 5 seconds after that, I was out the back door and confronting her, iPad in hand.


----------



## jelly_bean

First of all Pilot Ranger I am truly sorry you are in this situation. 

I have not posted for awhile but wanted to give my input. I struggled with the same decision and it can take months for you to get to the decision. I did the how the kids will be impacted and the therapy. In the end I realized one thing, a cheater is a liar. And the longer or more affairs they have the better liars they become. Think of them like alcoholics, they need to want to change themselves for this to really work. Not the threat of the marriage ending, losing children, or losing financial stability. If they don't want to become better then you might be wasting your time.

In the end I decided no matter what he did I could never trust him again and that leaving a man for cheating (EA or PA) is reason enough. That is my personal choice and it took me 6 months to get there. 

Don't know if this will help but the bottom line is make sure your mental state is in the right place before you choose to reconcile or leave.


----------



## BjornFree

Admire your self control. 

Next steps will be to get everything in order meaning lawyers, papers, evidence, list of people you wish to expose to - preferably your side of the family - backup, her family, the OMW, anybody and his dog. Present cold facts only, no talk of feeling betrayed and "How could she do this to me?" 

Bring the hammer down hard. Maximum impact with minimum effort. 

Don't waste your time talking to the OM, he's a piece of ****. Don't waste your time talking to your wife, she's a piece of ****. Don't confront, don't beg , don't hold the door open, not even a crack. At this point your goal should be to get out with your dignity intact.


----------



## pilotranger

WorkingOnMe said:


> Man I don't know how you are able to do that. I know getting yourself lined out is best but I couldn't do it.


It's tough, but I don't usually base my decisions on knee jerk reactions. Though in this instance it may be warranted. I just want to position myself to be on the winning side with my children.


----------



## BjornFree

pilotranger said:


> It's tough, but I don't usually base my decisions on knee jerk reactions. Though in this instance it may be warranted. I just want to position myself to be on the winning side with my children.


Don't worry about it PR. You're already on the winning side with your children by default. You're not out of the woods just yet to realize the fact.

Keep a private log of everything significant or insignificant. Move anything you have of personal value, heirlooms etc into a safe location preferably outside your home.

Disengage emotionally. This is important to not go crazy during this process. Regardless, of your reconciling or divorce. You're getting some real good advice. Don't think that people are jumping the gun when they say file. You're jump-starting your new life which might or might not include her, eventually. You're coming from a position of strength. If you don't lay down the law and dish out the consequences for your wife's ****ty behavior, you're setting yourself up for a life of heartache and discontentment. We have more than one example of members who've been too scared to rock the boat when it was needed and then building up resentment and living a miserable life years down the road.

You do not want to be that guy.


----------



## pilotranger

dgtal said:


> Prepare the exposure package (all copies), drive to their house, make sure the POSOM is not there, knock the door and tell the OMW you hired a PI and this is the evidence of her husband screwing your wife. Tell her that he will face serious consequences if he doesn't back off. Confront your wife right after. Dont tell your wife you told the OMW. Do not reveal the source of info. You will feel very pleased after this. You wont regret it. You will feel stronger. My own experience. P.s. don't think about what to or what not to include in that package. Put everything in there, she will walk inside and will dig inside the envelope.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I found an email exchange where the OM told my WW she's more beautiful than his own wife. I made sure that is the first or second thing the OMW sees in the package.

:toast:


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> I found an email exchange where the OM told my WW she's more beautiful than his own wife. I made sure that is the first or second thing the OMW sees in the package.
> 
> :toast:


Dude. Damn. *THAT* will be the icing on the f*cking cake.


----------



## Archangel2

pilotranger said:


> So she told me in March (after our big blow up), we're different people now and not sure if we can get that intimacy back, etc.
> 
> Is that just "lost in the fog of the affair" or is that legit?


Speaking as a fellow Catholic, I would say that this type of language may be grounds for you filing for an annulment in the Catholic Church. You can argue that it shows that she probably was not in the proper state of mind when she married you.

Perhaps you can contact your pastor to begin the process at the same time you notify the OMW and confront your wife.Like a D, the annulment can always be stopped if you decide to R.


----------



## pilotranger

GusPolinski said:


> Dude. Damn. *THAT* will be the icing on the f*cking cake.


Yeah and he references her name too!! He'll be lucky if he will still have his package after it's said and done.


----------



## pilotranger

Archangel2 said:


> Speaking as a fellow Catholic, I would say that this type of language may be grounds for you filing for an annulment in the Catholic Church. You can argue that it shows that she probably was not in the proper state of mind when she married you.
> 
> Perhaps you can contact your pastor to begin the process at the same time you notify the OMW and confront your wife.Like a D, the annulment can always be stopped if you decide to R.


She's devout Catholic (well used to be I guess considering the circumstances). This is not going to bode well with her family. Honestly, they're going to be harder on her than anyone.


----------



## the guy

When will you expose to her siblings?

Maybe Saturday before mass you can send out an email?

Then expose the A to OMW at mass.

By communion her cell will be going off big time.


----------



## Archangel2

pilotranger said:


> She's devout Catholic (well used to be I guess considering the circumstances). * This is not going to bode well with her family*. Honestly, they're going to be harder on her than anyone.


Since the annulment is a very deliberative process, imagine what her siblings will think if they are called upon to give written testimony on their knowledge of your relationship!


----------



## Wolfman1968

Archangel2 said:


> Speaking as a fellow Catholic, I would say that this type of language may be grounds for you filing for an annulment in the Catholic Church. You can argue that it shows that she probably was not in the proper state of mind when she married you.
> 
> Perhaps you can contact your pastor to begin the process at the same time you notify the OMW and confront your wife.Like a D, the annulment can always be stopped if you decide to R.



You think so? Because this reflects her state of mind at the time of the "big blow up" (as the OP calls it) in March, but doesn't seem to me to say anything about the frame of mind at the time of the marriage.


----------



## EleGirl

pilotranger said:


> I found an email exchange where the OM told my WW she's more beautiful than his own wife. I made sure that is the first or second thing the OMW sees in the package.
> 
> :toast:


Oh man... While that sounds dramatic, I think it's cruel to give the OMW that email. She is an innocent party here, the mother of 3 children. That email will destroy her. All she needs is a few items that cannot be disputed. 

Plus, you need the OM to be scrambling to save his marriage. If he is scrambling, to do that he will drop your wife so fast.

If you give his wife that letter, I could lead to her kicking him to the curb immediately. Then he is a free agent.

Remember that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair. The secondary reason is to let his wife know so that she can make an informed decision about her own life.

Over time, if she asks for more info... then you can rethink it.


----------



## Wolfman1968

EleGirl said:


> Oh man... While that sounds dramatic, I think it's cruel to give the OMW that email. She is an innocent party here, the mother of 3 children. That email will destroy her. All she needs is a few items that cannot be disputed.
> 
> Plus, you need the OM to be scrambling to save his marriage. If he is scrambling, to do that he will drop your wife so fast.
> 
> If you give his wife that letter, I could lead to her kicking him to the curb immediately. Then he is a free agent.
> 
> Remember that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair. The secondary reason is to let his wife know so that she can make an informed decision about her own life.
> 
> Over time, if she asks for more info... then you can rethink it.


Not sure that OM's wife seeing her husband send a comment like "you're more beautiful than my wife" is really all that much harsher than learning that he's having sex with another woman. One is saying it, the other is acting it out. Both are pretty harsh

The belief that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair is only true IF he wants to Reconcile. If not, then it doesn't matter much if the affair ends or not, since he is dedicated to ending the marriage anyway. If he doesn't want to Reconcile, then helping the OM's wife and giving the POS OM a little payback become more important reasons.


----------



## BjornFree

EleGirl said:


> Oh man... While that sounds dramatic, I think it's cruel to give the OMW that email. She is an innocent party here, the mother of 3 children. That email will destroy her. All she needs is a few items that cannot be disputed.


I don't get why its cruel to reveal the truth. The email might destroy her but it will throw light on the fact that her husband is lower than a snake's ass. If she divorces him after that, then good for her.


----------



## chaos

BjornFree said:


> I don't get why its cruel to reveal the truth. The email might destroy her but it will throw light on the fact that her husband is lower than a snake's ass. If she divorces him after that, then good for her.


So are you saying *"Kill 'em all. Let God sort them out"* is justifiable?


----------



## BjornFree

chaos said:


> So are you saying *"Kill 'em all. Let God sort them out"* is justifiable?


Absolutely.

Lets flip the script here. If your spouse wasliving a double life and you got to know only a small part of it, that would make you vulnerable to get gaslighted like nobody's business. You don't want to end up there for the next few years of your life living under this illusion that your POSpouse is actually a venerable saint who made a small little mistake while he was out arranging bunga bunga parties with underage hookers. 

Would you not want to know the truth?


----------



## Mr Right

drifting on said:


> I take it as you have invaded my family. Something I don't take kindly too. Everybody is different but I would feel extreme pleasure to watch him squirm.


If it was my wife I would get extreme pleasure turning his face into bloody pulp and probably breaking bones (arm or leg etc) and letting him know that if he ever comes within a few kms of my wife or has any contact with her (phone, email, chat etc) what so ever, "next time he won't get off so lightly"!!!!

(yes I know you have to be smart about when and where you would do this).


----------



## EleGirl

Wolfman1968 said:


> Not sure that OM's wife seeing her husband send a comment like "you're more beautiful than my wife" is really all that much harsher than learning that he's having sex with another woman. One is saying it, the other is acting it out. Both are pretty harsh


For a lot of men who cheat, sex is just a sport. Women know this. It is probably the case with this guy. While the sex is bad, him naming his wife and comparing her to his AP cuts deep. It is a direct attack on his wife. I cannot explain it... that is the reaction I had to it. 



Wolfman1968 said:


> The belief that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair is only true IF he wants to Reconcile. If not, then it doesn't matter much if the affair ends or not, since he is dedicated to ending the marriage anyway. If he doesn't want to Reconcile, then helping the OM's wife and giving the POS OM a little payback become more important reasons.


Pilot does not know what he wants yet. If he goes into the exposure to destroy, it's not going to go well. It is him focusing his energy in the wrong place.


----------



## EleGirl

BjornFree said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Lets flip the script here. If your spouse wasliving a double life and you got to know only a small part of it, that would make you vulnerable to get gaslighted like nobody's business. You don't want to end up there for the next few years of your life living under this illusion that your POSpouse is actually a venerable saint who made a small little mistake while he was out arranging bunga bunga parties with underage hookers.
> 
> Would you not want to know the truth?


The OP only plans to give a small part of the evidence he has. He is picking/choosing what he will give her. She will not have a full picture no matter what.


----------



## EleGirl

Mr Right said:


> If it was my wife I would get extreme pleasure turning his face into bloody pulp and probably breaking bones (arm or leg etc) and letting him know that if he ever comes within a few kms of my wife or has any contact with her (phone, email, chat etc) what so ever, "next time he won't get off so lightly"!!!!
> 
> (yes I know you have to be smart about when and where you would do this).


Juicer did this. He ended up with huge legal problems the destroyed him financially.


----------



## Retribution

EleGirl said:


> Juicer did this. He ended up with huge legal problems the destroyed him financially.


Sadly, the POSOM does have the law on his side with this one. Too often justice never gets served, and the course of action that BSs want isn't within our legal powers. Ele has the voice of reason on this one.


----------



## drifting on

Mr Right said:


> If it was my wife I would get extreme pleasure turning his face into bloody pulp and probably breaking bones (arm or leg etc) and letting him know that if he ever comes within a few kms of my wife or has any contact with her (phone, email, chat etc) what so ever, "next time he won't get off so lightly"!!!!
> 
> (yes I know you have to be smart about when and where you would do this).



Mr Right

Your response is the same as your name, right. While I would love to do just that I did have to think beyond this one moment in time. Everything comes into play and my life tomorrow is what I focused on. By controlling my anger I kept my job, pension, house, etc. However, if I was pilotranger I would go to the church. I almost posted a secondary post to my first. The second post is what I actually would have done. I would have rushed the WW and get to church early only I would sit next to OMW. As soon as the church service starts I would write, we need to talk, now. Then show her a picture of her naked husband to ensure she follow me outside. Once outside I would explain her husband had been having an affair with my WW. By now I would imagine the WW and OM would be joining us. I would give each of them one minute to confess.

If no confession I would say I bet the priest would love to know about this and begin walking inside. One of the waywards would cave and I would listen to the story. I would then tell OM you win, and leave my WW with him. I would then drive to every relative she has and give them the evidence. Then mail to any family over one hour in distance. Simple really but a hard enough hit to end their little fantasy land life. 

I hate to say I disagree with Elegirl but every email I had would be in that envelope. If OMW did decide to reconcile I wouldn't want to return six months later to say I held this one back to avoid hurting you anymore. OMW deserves to know it all in one shot rather than prolonging any future pain. 
But that's me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on this, I'd make the decision for her, but you have to do what you feel you need to do, for whatever reason.
> 
> I would say that staying for the kids is the wrong reason, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't waste any of my life waiting til the kids turn 18. I recommend ending it if this is the way you feel and you think she feels the same way.
> 
> Of course there is always the chance that if you file for divorce that she will get scared and change her tune, but I wouldn't let that change your mind if you do decide to divorce. She has had another man in and out of her more times than you can probably count while she was married to you. If you are like me, you want to puke just looking at her.
> 
> So question is, what is it YOU want to do?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on an emotional roller coaster - one day I want the easy way out and divorce. Then a couple days later, I want to R and see a counselor to try and work it out on my terms with zero tolerance for error.
> 
> I posted earlier I wanted to see if this is an aberration or if this is truly who she really is. She's going to have to reinvent the words repent and remorse through her words and more important her ACTIONS to our marriage and to me in order for me to leave that small crack on the door open. Even so, it's no guarantee I would keep her. Just the visuals of them doing the things they described is just sickening. Another man in and out of my wife.....MY WIFE!!
Click to expand...

Get the whole truth them decide what you want and what you can bare, R is not for everyone


----------



## drifting on

Suspecting2014 said:


> Get the whole truth them decide what you want and what you can bare, R is not for everyone


Ain't that the truth!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

drifting on said:


> I hate to say I disagree with Elegirl but every email I had would be in that envelope. If OMW did decide to reconcile I wouldn't want to return six months later to say I held this one back to avoid hurting you anymore. OMW deserves to know it all in one shot rather than prolonging any future pain.
> 
> But that's me.



I think you missed my point. Pilot wants to protect his sources and not let his wife know everything he has. So he giving the OMW only a few items.. 

If that email was buried in a huge pile than that is on thing. Put to make the first or second of only a few select items, it will an impact that cuts her deeply.


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Lets flip the script here. If your spouse wasliving a double life and you got to know only a small part of it, that would make you vulnerable to get gaslighted like nobody's business. You don't want to end up there for the next few years of your life living under this illusion that your POSpouse is actually a venerable saint who made a small little mistake while he was out arranging bunga bunga parties with underage hookers.
> 
> Would you not want to know the truth?


Have you ever sat with someone after they were on the receiving end of such a package? I have. The pain it inflicts is indescribable. But Pilot Ranger, you understand that pain. Because her situation, being cheated on, is more or less the same as yours, so when she gets that information, she is going to feel more or less like you do.

Yes, the wife deserves to know the truth, but there are ways to tell her. Break it to her gently.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> It's tough, but I don't usually base my decisions on knee jerk reactions. Though in this instance it may be warranted. I just want to position myself to be on the winning side with my children.


There is not a winning side is in this situation, just damage control.

Kids know and sense most that you can imagin.


----------



## larry.gray

EleGirl said:


> Juicer did this. He ended up with huge legal problems the destroyed him financially.


The bulk of his problems were doing it in front of a bunch of witnesses and then turning on the cops who came to break it up. 

NEVER hit a cop... It will always end badly for you.


----------



## Wazza

pilotranger said:


> She won't be able to lie about the condoms. I took pics of them after I found them in briefcase. Yeah, she can make up some dumb excuse, but it's not going to fly.
> 
> When I confront her, this is what the conversation is going to be:
> 
> Me: We need to talk. Remember when you told me in April 2014 after our big blowup you "love me but not in love with me." Well, 95% of spouses that say that is in an affair. Look me in the eyes and tell me you're not having an affair.
> 
> Spouse: I'm not having an affair (weakly, instead of strongly objecting - since a person that has nothing to hide will vehemently deny it).
> 
> Me: Are you aware I do have evidence, so this is your chance to come clean.
> 
> Spouse: what evidence? you're bluffing.
> 
> Me: I have a friend who is a PI that owes me a favor and he did some digging for me. have damaging pics of you and OM on November 15, 2013 (I really don't have any pics of that day, but I know they were meeting that day for their "hookie day" based on their texts and she saying "can't wait till we meet Friday).
> 
> Then we'll see what she says from there. I already know his name, what he looks like, how many kids he has, his address, etc. I have the evidence if I need to use that if she does not budge. Evidence includes, sexting, pics of her, pics of him, emails, etc.
> 
> Will expose the affair to OMW after I confront my wife. Will be vague with evidence, but enough for smoking gun and not reveal my sources (I still want access to the source so I can monitor on-going IF we end up R).
> 
> Meeting attorney tomorrow before I confront wife to see what legal options are and ask questions on my rights etc.


I would advise a rethink of this on two counts.

First, you are pitting everything on Nov 15. It's a high stakes bluff. If it falls through you have weakened yourself. And there is no good reason that I can see to do it. What if, for example, they didn't meet? Or they were interrupted and nothing happened? Or they were somewhere your PI could not have been.....etc.

Second, and far more important.....have you come across the notion of trickle truth? Basically, the cheating spouse will admit to what you already clearly know. So you ask her about Nov 15th and if she admits anything it will probably be about Nov 15th. You will then need to use another piece of evidence to extract more admissions, and it will become a vicious circle. I played that game and I found it soul destroying.

I posted a link to BFF's confrontation of his wife earlier in your thread. What I thought he did really well was ask open questions. His wife knew he knew something, but she had no clue as to what. That made it impossible for her to control the situation. 

You'll find out a lot more if you don't give her any help with what to admit to. Sadly, you have to break her.

This is a long term game, and it will take years to process what has happened. It's not fair but there is no escape. And I think the more you know the truth of what happened, the easier it is to process it.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> I'm on an emotional roller coaster - one day I want the easy way out and divorce. Then a couple days later, I want to R and see a counselor to try and work it out on my terms with zero tolerance for error.
> 
> I posted earlier I wanted to see *if this is an aberration or if this is truly who she really is*. She's going to have to reinvent the words repent and remorse through her words and more important her ACTIONS to our marriage and to me in order for me to leave that small crack on the door open. Even so, it's no guarantee I would keep her. Just the visuals of them doing the things they described is just sickening. Another man in and out of my wife.....MY WIFE!!


As I posted before R is not for everyone.

You need to be in a position where you can make the right decision. IMO you need to achieve this:

The whole truth. You wont get it from your wife, as she will just own what you can prove, but you would get it from OMPOS by doing the next: After confronting her call him in front your wife, let him know that you will tell his wife if he dont answer a few questions, the ask all you need to know, start, how many encounters, etc. (compare versions) and very important to make him say that your wife was just a sextoy for him (believe me he will say anything to avoid losing his family), this way your WW will see the real POS he is (very important to slap her into reality). 

He will throw your wife under the bus in a blink. And of course you will tell his wife everything after you get what you want as you dont own him nothing. If you can record the call do it!

Get the affair out the dark. When you expose big time, your wife will start to realize that her marriage was taken for granted an all she has destroyed. If to this mix you add that you already had a legal consultant as you are considering D (this will show her that you are can and are willing to live without her). She will be back reality in no time.

You must be prepare to face 3 things.

Tricked Truth, she will lie to minimize, e.g., she will say just a kiss, it mean BJ, etc. just 3 months it could be 1 year. Make clear to her that you will file in the moment a new discovery come to light.

Blame shifting, she will say that it was all your fault, remember that even you were the worst husband in the world, she had to have said to you not cheated on you, it was all her fault. Affair is a choice not a consequence.

Rationalization, linked to the previous point is that she has change the memories and the situation of your marriage in the way that she could be OK with the affair and not being a bad person in her mind, e,g, she may think that she was really unhappy because of you and thats why she felt entitled to the affair.

One last thing, be aware that nothing can guarantee that after all she will want to be with you, it may not be the case.

Good luck


----------



## MattMatt

Do you know a PI who could conceivably owe you a favour? If not, you should not mention this. She will know you are lying and she would have a field day with you.

However say something like "Boy! Xxx must have really upset someone! They sent me a whole load of details of what you and he have been up to!"

Then give her the info you have.

You can set up an anon email address (mail.com for example) and email the information to yourself posing as a fellow BS. After all, logic tells us this will not be his first appearance as an infidelity clown in the cheater's rodeo.

Then take it from there. Trick her into giving you what you need to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pilotranger

MattMatt said:


> Do you know a PI who could conceivably owe you a favour? If not, you should not mention this. She will know you are lying and she would have a field day with you.
> 
> However say something like "Boy! Xxx must have really upset someone! They sent me a whole load of details of what you and he have been up to!"
> 
> Then give her the info you have.
> 
> You can set up an anon email address (mail.com for example) and email the information to yourself posing as a fellow BS. After all, logic tells us this will not be his first appearance as an infidelity clown in the cheater's rodeo.
> 
> Then take it from there. Trick her into giving you what you need to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I see your point about the PI. The only thing I have is the condoms in her briefcase and access to her email account that shows all the pics and texts. I'm thinking it might not matter if she knows about my access and changes her password down the line. Because I'm going to demand to know her new password and if she balks, then she's still hiding it. Total transparency on emails is non-negotiable. If she says that she needs her privacy, that pretty much tells me what I need to know down the road.


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> Oh man... While that sounds dramatic, I think it's cruel to give the OMW that email. *She is an innocent party here,* the mother of 3 children. That email will destroy her. All she needs is a few items that cannot be disputed.
> 
> Plus, you need the OM to be scrambling to save his marriage. If he is scrambling, to do that he will drop your wife so fast.
> 
> If you give his wife that letter, I could lead to her kicking him to the curb immediately. Then he is a free agent.
> 
> Remember that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair. The secondary reason is to let his wife know so that she can make an informed decision about her own life.
> 
> Over time, if she asks for more info... then you can rethink it.


I'm with Elegirl on this. This woman did nothing to you and you're about to break some devastating news to her. Don't make things worse for an innocent person.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> I see your point about the PI. The only thing I have is the condoms in her briefcase and access to her email account that shows all the pics and texts. I'm thinking it might not matter if she knows about my access and changes her password down the line. Because I'm going to demand to know her new password and if she balks, then she's still hiding it. Total transparency on emails is non-negotiable. If she says that she needs her privacy, that pretty much tells me what I need to know down the road.


Go nuk and expose big time.

I am so sorry but at your situation IMHO there is only one way, even heading to D or towards R is the same path... In order to save your marriage you must be willing to lose it.

Be paralized is not an option, act ASAP


----------



## Wazza

pilotranger said:


> I see your point about the PI. The only thing I have is the condoms in her briefcase and access to her email account that shows all the pics and texts. I'm thinking it might not matter if she knows about my access and changes her password down the line. Because I'm going to demand to know her new password and if she balks, then she's still hiding it. Total transparency on emails is non-negotiable. If she says that she needs her privacy, that pretty much tells me what I need to know down the road.


Well, there again, that's niaive. Sorry. 

If she continues the affair after confrontation, she will hide it. Where she knows you are watching is not where you are going to find the juicy stuff. Yiu watch her regular phone, she'll get a burner. you have access to her three email accounts that you know about, how long will it take her to set up a fourth and not tell you. And so on.

You have to outplay her. Long term trust has to be restored, but right now her word is worthless, and everything she says must be independently verified.


----------



## Chaparral

Telling the wife is the right thing to do. Her husband doesn't want your wife for but one thing or he would already be gone. Use that to your advantage. Do not tell his wife said about your wife being better looking. He may having just been blowing more smoke up your wifes skirt anyway.

Telling her would just be vicious, unChristian and rubbing salt in her wounds. Do let the possom know you have it and will use it if you have too. Also, print out the home page to cheaterville.com and send it to him and ask if he would like to be there till the end of time for anyone to see if they google his name.

I think your wife is going to fold in a big way. She knows this has gone on too long and the possom is only using her now and has no intentions of leaving his family.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Other thought, open a new email acount, make it very similar to OMW name, then send a couple of the most incriminating emails you sent to your email from your wifes. Make them look like they were sent from OM mail to this new email (it is easy as you can erase the spread chain of emails when you are about to sent it).
Send them to your wifes with a note like:

"I am OMPOS wife, I sending your this emails just to let you know that if you contact again my H by any mean, I will post all your emails and pics in our church wall and your kids school.

If your H doesnt call me in 24 hours I will reach him with all the proves I have, you have this time to come clean about everything.

If you dont belive me this is your H email (put your email here)

I realli hope "your name" divorce you, cuz I will OMPOS"

Then wait to see what happen. Keep checking her email.

**** luck


----------



## Chaparral

drifting on said:


> Mr Right
> 
> Your response is the same as your name, right. While I would love to do just that I did have to think beyond this one moment in time. Everything comes into play and my life tomorrow is what I focused on. By controlling my anger I kept my job, pension, house, etc. However, if I was pilotranger I would go to the church. I almost posted a secondary post to my first. The second post is what I actually would have done. I would have rushed the WW and get to church early only I would sit next to OMW. As soon as the church service starts I would write, we need to talk, now. Then show her a picture of her naked husband to ensure she follow me outside. Once outside I would explain her husband had been having an affair with my WW. By now I would imagine the WW and OM would be joining us. I would give each of them one minute to confess.
> 
> If no confession I would say I bet the priest would love to know about this and begin walking inside. One of the waywards would cave and I would listen to the story. I would then tell OM you win, and leave my WW with him. I would then drive to every relative she has and give them the evidence. Then mail to any family over one hour in distance. Simple really but a hard enough hit to end their little fantasy land life.
> 
> I hate to say I disagree with Elegirl but every email I had would be in that envelope. If OMW did decide to reconcile I wouldn't want to return six months later to say I held this one back to avoid hurting you anymore. OMW deserves to know it all in one shot rather than prolonging any future pain.
> But that's me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Way, way, way too cruel.

Also,.church is not the right place to do this. A church is sacred ground. This needs to be done one on one with compassion for his wife. She doesn't need to be humiliated at church in front of her friends and family. This would be unbelievably mean and unforgiveable.


----------



## G.J.

So on the day is it :

1.Confront OMW and show her proof

2.Straight home and confront wife with proof

If you are confronting OMW you better be sure he wont be coming back half way through and that you can get to your wife in a couple of minutes after existing OMW door and your wife is definitely at home
If that can not be guaranteed then confront wife first

if the first 2 go down then I suggest

3.confront/Talk OM and get his version of events to cross ref and to say if you ever see him again you will not be held responcible


----------



## LongWalk

OM's wife needs the truth. If her husband was flattering your wife by saying that she won the beauty contest, that tells her loads about his character. He was already getting nookie, there was no need to boost your wife's ego further.

Please explain more about the PI. How did you become friends? Can you call on him again? What was his opinion? He must have uncovered many affairs, since that is bread and butter work.

BullWinkle, an old TAM poster, had a grossly overweight PI who ate pizza while staking out BW's cheating wife. Once his wife hired a PI to spy on BW. The two PI's knew each other and discussed their clients.

That said Droog got a lot out of his PI.


----------



## karole

Chaparral said:


> Way, way, way too cruel.
> 
> Also,.church is not the right place to do this. A church is sacred ground. This needs to be done one on one with compassion for his wife. She doesn't need to be humiliated at church in front of her friends and family. This would be unbelievably mean and unforgiveable.


Agreed and the OM's children will be there too. They don't need to see any of it either.


----------



## pilotranger

LongWalk said:


> OM's wife needs the truth. If her husband was flattering your wife by saying that she won the beauty contest, that tells her loads about his character. He was already getting nookie, there was no need to boost your wife's ego further.
> 
> Please explain more about the PI. How did you become friends? Can you call on him again? What was his opinion? He must have uncovered many affairs, since that is bread and butter work.
> 
> BullWinkle, an old TAM poster, had a grossly overweight PI who ate pizza while staking out BW's cheating wife. Once his wife hired a PI to spy on BW. The two PI's knew each other and discussed their clients.
> 
> That said Droog got a lot out of his PI.


I don't know a PI. It was a bluff/truth. I do know they met on that certain day as part of their "Hookie Fridays", based on the text messages.


----------



## pilotranger

karole said:


> Agreed and the OM's children will be there too. They don't need to see any of it either.


No, I would never expose at church.


----------



## Hicks

Are they having an affair currently?
You don't need to expose anything if they are not currently having an affair. Exposure is used to kill an affair.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hicks said:


> Are they having an affair currently?
> You don't need to expose anything if they are not currently having an affair. Exposure is used to kill an affair.


Seems unclear at this point, though OMW deserves to know either way.


----------



## pilotranger

Hicks said:


> Are they having an affair currently?
> You don't need to expose anything if they are not currently having an affair. Exposure is used to kill an affair.


I don't think they are. Based on the emails/texts I have, they may have ended it back in October.


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> She's devout Catholic (well used to be I guess considering the circumstances). This is not going to bode well with her family. Honestly, they're going to be harder on her than anyone.


Your plan of giving the OMW proof and then confronting your wife has some good aspects. She will lie and then get a call from the OM freaking out.

Please be aware that your wife will be desperate to avoid further exposure. She will do and say anything to avoid it. Her emotions will be dramatic and real. The problem is you will have difficulty separating her desire to avoid further exposure from true remorse. 

Cheaters self-select by cheating. As a group they tend to be narcissistic. It’s all about them. That’s why they’re willing to risk everything for self-gratification. 

You can imagine how they will react if *their* life as they know it is endangered. This is especially true of your wife with everyone thinking she’s so goodie goodie. She will do anything to save herself.


----------



## cpacan

Hicks said:


> Are they having an affair currently?
> You don't need to expose anything if they are not currently having an affair. Exposure is used to kill an affair.


Don't you think that OMW deserves to know the truth about her life?


----------



## farsidejunky

pilotranger said:


> I don't think they are. Based on the emails/texts I have, they may have ended it back in October.


Any indication as to why it ended?


----------



## convert

farsidejunky said:


> Any indication as to why it ended?


that is a good question.


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> I think you missed my point. Pilot wants to protect his sources and not let his wife know everything he has. So he giving the OMW only a few items..
> 
> If that email was buried in a huge pile than that is on thing. Put to make the first or second of only a few select items, it will an impact that cuts her deeply.


If that email concretely demonstrates the OM's level of depravity and the honest scope of his betrayal I would think it would be cruel not to show her. Sometimes the truth hurts but who are we to decide how much hurt someone is willing or able to absorb? By not revealing this isn't pilot engaging in his own version of trickle truth?


----------



## bfree

Wazza said:


> Have you ever sat with someone after they were on the receiving end of such a package? I have. The pain it inflicts is indescribable. But Pilot Ranger, you understand that pain. Because her situation, being cheated on, is more or less the same as yours, so when she gets that information, she is going to feel more or less like you do.
> 
> Yes, the wife deserves to know the truth, but there are ways to tell her. Break it to her gently.


Yes I have sat with someone when they received this information. I've also been the one providing the information. It's far worse when some is withheld and discovered later.


----------



## bfree

pilotranger said:


> I see your point about the PI. The only thing I have is the condoms in her briefcase and access to her email account that shows all the pics and texts. I'm thinking it might not matter if she knows about my access and changes her password down the line. Because I'm going to demand to know her new password and if she balks, then she's still hiding it. Total transparency on emails is non-negotiable. If she says that she needs her privacy, that pretty much tells me what I need to know down the road.


She could create a new email account that you wouldn't have access to.


----------



## Mr Right

drifting on said:


> Mr Right
> 
> Your response is the same as your name, right. While I would love to do just that I did have to think beyond this one moment in time. Everything comes into play and my life tomorrow is what I focused on. By controlling my anger I kept my job, pension, house, etc. However, if I was pilotranger I would go to the church. I almost posted a secondary post to my first. The second post is what I actually would have done. I would have rushed the WW and get to church early only I would sit next to OMW. As soon as the church service starts I would write, we need to talk, now. Then show her a picture of her naked husband to ensure she follow me outside. Once outside I would explain her husband had been having an affair with my WW. By now I would imagine the WW and OM would be joining us. I would give each of them one minute to confess.
> 
> If no confession I would say I bet the priest would love to know about this and begin walking inside. One of the waywards would cave and I would listen to the story. I would then tell OM you win, and leave my WW with him. I would then drive to every relative she has and give them the evidence. Then mail to any family over one hour in distance. Simple really but a hard enough hit to end their little fantasy land life.
> 
> I hate to say I disagree with Elegirl but every email I had would be in that envelope. If OMW did decide to reconcile I wouldn't want to return six months later to say I held this one back to avoid hurting you anymore. OMW deserves to know it all in one shot rather than prolonging any future pain.
> But that's me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I don't know if I'd do it now but I did it in my younger day, twice to the POS. The first time I caught her in bed the POS (at her sisters house in one of her kids beds at about 7:00am on a Sunday morning). My GF wasn't at home (and we were out the night before, on the town, and I knew something had been going on and she was out to get me drunk as soon as she could) and we were out with her sister and this guy was sniffing around. I jumped her sisters back fence and went through her door (I had mowed her sisters lawn the afternoon before as her husband was in the army and away) and her sister heard me come in the house and met me in the hallway, when I asked where my GF was she had this stupid s&@t grin on her face and looked at the kids room door without saying anything (I knew what was going on straight away. The door was locked so I kicked it in and saw them in bed together (her with nothing on and him with just his boxers). I saw red the first thing I did was go straight outside and grabbed the tin of mower fuel, ran straight back in and poured the lot over him, but I didn't smoke or have a lighter so I just grabbed him by the hair and dragged him all the way out the front yard punching him in the head every couple of steps. He got away and ran down the road. I dropped my car keys and the sister picked them up and wouldnt give them to me.

I got the "oh I'm sorry, I'll never do that again, I was drunk, but I do love you". Now I had seen this POS before only a couple of days before as he worked for a company that was at the same building job I was working at (building a power station). On Monday morning he didnt turn up on the job and I told my boss what was going on and to see if he could find out where this POS was staying (the company the POS worked for was from out of town, 1500kms away). By that afternoon my boss gave me his address at a motel behind one of the local pubs. On the way home I did a drive by and low and behold here is my GF's car (the one I had bought for her about a month before. I parked my car around the corner and went to the pub and I could wait in the beer garden and watch his front door. My GF came out about 30 minutes later and he walked he to her car and gave her a big kiss before she got in and drove away.

I called up a mate to come where i was just incase i needed back up, I just waited in the beer garden until he came out about an hour later and here he comes strolling over to the pub for dinner. He didn't see me and I met him half was across the Carpark of the pub, the look on his face is something I'll never forget, I just grabbed him and started punching. It was only about 30 seconds and I dropped him to the ground and by that time another guy (co worker of the POS who was staying in the same room) run up and shaped up so I give him a few as well and he want to ground.

I went straight around to the GF's place and asked her what she had done today and she said "oh, not much just shopping with her sister" as she said that her phone rings and it was POS she just looked at me and she knew that I knew, where she was. Anyway there was a bit of a screaming match and she jumps in her car to leave but my truck is behind her car and she starts screaming all this **** at me and trying to get around my truck. I knew that this had been going on for a while and she was going to him and I got so mad I put my fist through her windscreen and grabbed her by the throat. She got around my truck, took out the water meter and drove off. Her dad (stepdad but the only father figure she's ever known comes out of the house to see what's going on, so I told him. We were good mates (and he had been cheated on by her mother), so he drove down the shipping center down the road, got a truck full of boxes, packed up all her stuff, put it on the driveway, called her up and told her she's been kicked out and don't ever come back.

I got home called a good mate who I grew up with who was the president of the local outlaw MC, we did a drive by and I showed where this POS lives. The next morning he want around to the place and waited as the POS came out he walked up and took a couple of photos of him and said "this is all I want, for now". That afternoon he flew home and the next day my now ex GF drove down to be with him. That lasted about 11 months and she was back, they had broken up and he was an "arsehole".

Now I just want to say I never abused her and I had never put a hand on woman EVER, I was never violent to anyone but I trained a bit. What really pissed me is we were engaged, I just bought her a car and a house and she was suppose to be moving in (we had lived together the 4 years before and she had only had a miscarriage about 8 months before so really I dodged a bullet. I now been with the same great woman for over 15 years (September) and been married for over 12 years (October). The exGF has 2 kids and is with someone who treats her like ****. She calls me up every year or so (she just called last week) saying that she still has feelings for me and no one has ever treated her as good and done the things I did for her (to show their love for her).

So it's true what they say, moving on and having success is the BEST REVENGE (but deep down I don't wish anything bad for her, I actually feel a bit sorry for her).


----------



## pilotranger

convert said:


> that is a good question.


I approached my wife (at the time, I was not aware of the A and no proof) and just asked questions (her answers in quotes):

1. Are you having an affair? - "No."
Who's "C.J."? - "Just a person I network with." - this is the OM.

2. What's causing us to drift apart? What have I done to make you drift and be so cold to me? I'm a good husband, faithful to you, don't abuse the kids, don't do drugs, have a good job, have the same values for us and the kids, etc. - "I don't know."

3. Why won't you want to talk about this? - "I don't know."

4. It's like you've checked out of this marriage. - "I don't know." I'm not ready to talk about this."

So obviously, she was hiding it and probably ending after I semi-confronted her. So I knew something was fishy, but needed proof/smoking gun. So I finally found the proof last Friday (condoms in her briefcase) and lucky to get her password to email account and found the emails and pics/texts.


----------



## vellocet

pilotranger said:


> Just the visuals of them doing the things they described is just sickening. Another man in and out of my wife.....MY WIFE!!


Well I hate to say it, those visuals will never go away completely. If you stay with her, you will have to put up with those visuals and suck it up. Is that what you want out of life?

My man, I can tell you this. A wonderful world awaits you where the visuals will no longer matter. As long as you have to look at her on a daily basis, they will be there, and they will hurt. That's not a life IMO.


----------



## convert

pilotranger said:


> I approached my wife (at the time, I was not aware of the A and no proof) and just asked questions (her answers in quotes):
> 
> 1. Are you having an affair? - "No."
> Who's "C.J."? - "Just a person I network with." - this is the OM.
> 
> 2. What's causing us to drift apart? What have I done to make you drift and be so cold to me? I'm a good husband, faithful to you, don't abuse the kids, don't do drugs, have a good job, have the same values for us and the kids, etc. - "I don't know."
> 
> 3. Why won't you want to talk about this? - "I don't know."
> 
> 4. It's like you've checked out of this marriage. - "I don't know." I'm not ready to talk about this."
> 
> So obviously, she was hiding it and probably ending after I semi-confronted her. So I knew something was fishy, but needed proof/smoking gun. So I finally found the proof last Friday (condoms in her briefcase) and lucky to get her password to email account and found the emails and pics/texts.


well from what you have said it could have ended but more likely may just be cooling it for a while.

do you have the email that she has that supposedly ended the affair? (if she ever sent it).
can you check her sent folder and see if it is in there?

it might help to post this email to us to see if it really an ending or cooling off because husband is on to me.

if it is to personal to do this i understand.


----------



## Chaparral

:iagree:


LongWalk said:


> OM's wife needs the truth. If her husband was flattering your wife by saying that she won the beauty contest, that tells her loads about his character. He was already getting nookie, there was no need to boost your wife's ego further.
> 
> Please explain more about the PI. How did you become friends? Can you call on him again? What was his opinion? He must have uncovered many affairs, since that is bread and butter work.
> 
> BullWinkle, an old TAM poster, had a grossly overweight PI who ate pizza while staking out BW's cheating wife. Once his wife hired a PI to spy on BW. The two PI's knew each other and discussed their clients.
> 
> That said Droog got a lot out of his PI.


If you recall Bullwinkle was a troll


----------



## vellocet

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm with Elegirl on this. This woman did nothing to you and you're about to break some devastating news to her. Don't make things worse for an innocent person.


I think he definitely needs to let OMW know what he is doing. Just not the part about OP's wife being more beautiful than OM's own wife.

But only problem is, is that any worse than anything else pilot can show her?

But this innocent person needs to know she is being F'd over. If it were me, I'd tell her in person and if she needs proof, give her something, just maybe not anything that would have her H talking down about her.


----------



## Mr Right

pilotranger said:


> No, I would never expose at church.


Maybe you should wait until the service is over and give the wife the "evidence" on the way to the car? There kids (and yours are going to know something is up one way or another) I would also expose to the heads of the church (and all of the congregation, LOL). IMO it's about burning this POS and letting everyone know what his like and how he can't be trusted around their wives and daughters. If you are going to another church who cares and do you really want to go to that church where you could have a chance of running into the POS?

Also if you have to just pass off the evidence and go you really should leave the poor POS's wife your phone number.

Plus if you are going to R your wife will have to quit her job.


----------



## pilotranger

convert said:


> well from what you have said it could have ended but more likely may just be cooling it for a while.
> 
> do you have the email that she has that supposedly ended the affair? (if she ever sent it).
> can you check her sent folder and see if it is in there?
> 
> it might help to post this email to us to see if it really an ending or cooling off because husband is on to me.
> 
> if it is to personal to do this i understand.


I'll send to you via PM


----------



## Squeakr

Mr Right said:


> Maybe you should wait until the service is over and give the wife the "evidence" on the way to the car? There kids (and yours are going to know something is up one way or another) I would also expose to the heads of the church (and all of the congregation, LOL). IMO it's about burning this POS and letting everyone know what his like and how he can't be trusted around their wives and daughters. If you are going to another church who cares and do you really want to go to that church where you could have a chance of running into the POS?
> 
> Also if you have to just pass off the evidence and go you really should leave the poor POS's wife your phone number.
> 
> Plus if you are going to R your wife will have to quit her job.


If this is the case, then wouldn't you also require that everyone know the truth about his wife and that other women's husbands and sons and other men are equally unsafe around her? Seems hypocritical if you place all the blame squarely on the OM and ruin his innocent wife's life and good name while keeping yours intact, especially so much more since the OP's WW is adamant that it was not cheating or an A. Remember it takes two to have the A and make it work, so they should both share the blame equally. 

Heck we don't even know the true story so she could be the aggressor and had pursued the OM, does this make her worse if it is the case??


Just playing the Devil's advocate as we all don't want to think the worst about our spouse, but it sometimes is the truth.


----------



## Mr Right

bfree said:


> Yes I have sat with someone when they received this information. I've also been the one providing the information. It's far worse when some is withheld and discovered later.


Agreed, IMO Pilot, she needs to get everything, the whole box and dice. You can't leave out anything, any emails, texts etc. She needs to know exactly the type of person she's married to even if it hurts her, that way she can make an informed decision about if she wants to R or D

How would you like it if it was her that discovered what had gone on and she left out the emails where your wife was saying "he is better looking then you, is more of a man, is better in bed, is a better father and man" etc? You would want to know EVERYTHING no matter how much it hurt wouldn't you?


----------



## Squeakr

Mr Right said:


> Agreed, IMO Pilot, she needs to get everything, the whole box and dice. You can't leave out anything, any emails, texts etc. She needs to know exactly the type of person she's married to even if it hurts her, that way she can make an informed decision about if she wants to R or D
> 
> How would you like it if it was her that discovered what had gone on and she left out the emails where your wife was saying "he is better looking then you, is more of a man, is better in bed, is a better father and man" etc? You would want to know EVERYTHING no matter how much it hurt wouldn't you?


I am split on this issue. I am a details person and WANT/NEED to know all. However, I hate the fact that once I have seen or heard it, it can't be wiped from the memory (and I have an excellent memory). I have seen those things and it was an extra hit to the ego after finding out about the PA interactions. I still don't know the entire truth, but I have enough of a picture and everything I find just makes it worse each time.


----------



## Mr Right

pilotranger said:


> I approached my wife (at the time, I was not aware of the A and no proof) and just asked questions (her answers in quotes):
> 
> 1. Are you having an affair? - "No."
> Who's "C.J."? - "Just a person I network with." - this is the OM.
> 
> 2. What's causing us to drift apart? What have I done to make you drift and be so cold to me? I'm a good husband, faithful to you, don't abuse the kids, don't do drugs, have a good job, have the same values for us and the kids, etc. - "I don't know."
> 
> 3. Why won't you want to talk about this? - "I don't know."
> 
> 4. It's like you've checked out of this marriage. - "I don't know." I'm not ready to talk about this."
> 
> So obviously, she was hiding it and probably ending after I semi-confronted her. So I knew something was fishy, but needed proof/smoking gun. So I finally found the proof last Friday (condoms in her briefcase) and lucky to get her password to email account and found the emails and pics/texts.


Even if it has ended you still need to blow the whole thing open as it can start up just as easy. IMO you need to inform their HR or the Boss at work as well. If you R do you want your wife seeing that POS everyday and if your wife does quit, it's about show the POS you will destroy his world if he f&@ks with you EVER.


----------



## Mr Right

Squeakr said:


> I am split on this issue. I am a details person and WANT/NEED to know all. However, I hate the fact that once I have seen or heard it, it can't be wiped from the memory (and I have an excellent memory). I have seen those things and it was an extra hit to the ego after finding out about the PA interactions. I still don't know the entire truth, but I have enough of a picture and everything I find just makes it worse each time.


Yeah no one wants to be the bearer of bad news but if it was me I'd want to know exactly the person she is.


----------



## Mr Right

Just out of curiosity Pilot, how did you get her password?


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> convert said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> I approached my wife (at the time, I was not aware of the A and no proof) and just asked questions (her answers in quotes):
> 
> 1. Are you having an affair? - "No."
> Who's "C.J."? - "Just a person I network with." - this is the OM.
> 
> 2. What's causing us to drift apart? What have I done to make you drift and be so cold to me? I'm a good husband, faithful to you, don't abuse the kids, don't do drugs, have a good job, have the same values for us and the kids, etc. - "I don't know."
> 
> 3. Why won't you want to talk about this? - "I don't know."
> 
> 4. It's like you've checked out of this marriage. - "I don't know." I'm not ready to talk about this."
> 
> So obviously, she was hiding it and probably ending after I semi-confronted her. So I knew something was fishy, but needed proof/smoking gun. So I finally found the proof last Friday (condoms in her briefcase) and lucky to get her password to email account and found the emails and pics/texts.
Click to expand...

As you can read on TAM, an affair could go on and off for years. An unsent email ending an affair that has last, as far as you know, 2 years proves nothing.


----------



## convert

Suspecting2014 said:


> As you can read on TAM, an affair could go on and off for years. An unsent email ending an affair that has last, as far as you know, 2 years proves nothing.


:iagree:


Pilotranger let me know if I am off base here on this post I will delete it.

from the letter she is breaking up to do the right thing but I think does it so soft it will be easy to start up again.

and she composed the letter on her personal email and sent it to her work email, so OP does not know if it ever got to OM.

Pilot do you have her work email?
there could be a lot more evidence there.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to tell. Possom's wife first. If you tell your wife first she will warn om and will warn his wife a nut may be contacting her with wild tales about him. You have undeniable proof if she let's you show it to her. But just don't take a chance. You also need to tell his wife then see how your wife reacts after possom calls your wife. She will tell you that you ruined their family. Be ready to respond that this is 100% her fault. How your wife treats you after he calls will tell you a lot. Act like you don't know its over, which it may not be.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> You need to tell. Possom's wife first. If you tell your wife first she will warn om and will warn his wife a nut may be contacting her with wild tales about him. You have undeniable proof if she let's you show it to her. But just don't take a chance. You also need to tell his wife then see how your wife reacts. She will tell you that you ruined their family. Be ready to respond that this is 100% her fault.


Tell his wife in person please.:iagree::iagree:

Then grab the popcorn and get ready for your w to have a tantrum like a kid would do.


----------



## pilotranger

convert said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> Pilotranger let me know if I am off base here on this post I will delete it.
> 
> from the letter she is breaking up to do the right thing but I think does it so soft it will be easy to start up again.
> 
> and she composed the letter on her personal email and sent it to her work email, so OP does not know if it ever got to OM.
> 
> Pilot do you have her work email?
> there could be a lot more evidence there.


I agree, it could start up again after a cooling period. Always that possibility.

I don't have access to her work email. But I'm pretty sure she sent it, since they've had very little communication via text or personal email. I have records on the text via cell phone bill and it's been cold turkey since Nov.


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> I agree, it could start up again after a cooling period. Always that possibility.
> 
> I don't have access to her work email. But I'm pretty sure she sent it, since they've had very little communication via text or personal email. I have records on the text via cell phone bill and it's been cold turkey since Nov.


SO they have stopped communicating through means you have access to...since you confronted her about him??

Seems that it might have gone underground... or at least to something that you have no access to, such as her work phone, work email, or other hidden means. You tipped her off that you were checking and concerned, so it has gone elsewhere is a distinct possibility. I hope for your sake and sanity this is not the case.


----------



## convert

pilotranger said:


> I agree, it could start up again after a cooling period. Always that possibility.
> 
> I don't have access to her work email. But I'm *pretty sure she sent it, since they've had very little communication via text or personal email*. I have records on the text via cell phone bill and it's been cold turkey since Nov.


this is a good indicator that it has been sent, but not 100% but close.

wait you said "very little".... what do you mean by this?


----------



## Chaparral

How were things going on in your marriage before this started up?


----------



## pilotranger

convert said:


> this is a good indicator that it has been sent, but not 100% but close.
> 
> wait you said "very little".... what do you mean by this?


They've literally have not text one another since that letter in November. I see all incoming/outgoing texts she has on her phone.

Only thing I don't have access to is work blackberry and email.


----------



## tom67

Only thing I don't have access to is work blackberry and email.

This^^^
You said you guys aren't having sex right?
If you do r down the road she has to get an STD test.


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> They've literally have not text one another since that letter in November. I see all incoming/outgoing texts she has on her phone.
> 
> Only thing I don't have access to is work blackberry and email.


Wait a minute....Blackberry!

I see on another thread you were asking about spyware for an iPhone. Does she have the BBM (blackberry Messenger) App on her iPhone as she could use it to contact other blackberry messenger users that way., no matter what platform they use...iPhone, BB, Android, Windows, (she could also be using Message) and neither of those would show on the billing, as they use data and don't go through the number as texts (just as numerous other Apps do, such as WhatsApp, TextPlus, Twitter, as it now has direct message capabilities, and numerous others. She could be using BBM on the work device as well and probably does, as this is common practice for blackberry users. Since she has another device that you don't have access to, it could be easy that she has taken it solely to that device.


----------



## the guy

When you confront.....in WW head she isn't cheating....now! So the question is " why have you *been* phucking around behind my back?'

See you already know she is so the question "are you" is not worth asking.


----------



## pilotranger

Chaparral said:


> How were things going on in your marriage before this started up?


Before assH#le came into the picture - marriage was fine. Even when they were getting to be "a couple", she was still nice and responsive to me. She hid it well then. The last year has been crappy. No sex, hugs, conversations, date nights, time for each other. Had a big blowup argument in March where she said, "Maybe you should leave, maybe it's time for a divorce, etc."

I incorrectly and foolishly thought maybe it's her hormones and stuff and we just need to spend more time together. She basically does not talk to me unless responding to a question from me. Very irritated responses and attitude from her. Called her out on her demeanor towards me, especially in front of the children. Didn't help much.

Some days, I feel like slapping her in the face to wake her up from this fantasy land/fog that she's in, but it may not help. This is maybe the person she has evolved and changed into.

I know ya'll are thinking, "Why is this guy still here?" This person I'm confronting is someone that is not my wife and I'm trying to find out if this is who she really is or if she's just in this funk that can be fixed and get her out of it.

I realize that if we go back to our marriage like it was, it will fail. So we have to reinvent our marriage going forward. I'm not saying I want R, I'm just not shutting the door on it. I have to let the process play out and make the best informed decision for me/us/family.


----------



## pilotranger

Squeakr said:


> Wait a minute....Blackberry!
> 
> I see on another thread you were asking about spyware for an iPhone. Does she have the BBM (blackberry Messenger) App on her iPhone as she could use it to contact other blackberry messenger users that way., no matter what platform they use...iPhone, BB, Android, Windows, (she could also be using Message) and neither of those would show on the billing, as they use data and don't go through the number as texts (just as numerous other Apps do, such as WhatsApp, TextPlus, Twitter, as it now has direct message capabilities, and numerous others. She could be using BBM on the work device as well and probably does, as this is common practice for blackberry users. Since she has another device that you don't have access to, it could be easy that she has taken it solely to that device.


No, she does not have BB messenger app on iphone.

You're right, might have taken underground to her work blackberry. There might be a way I could get her work BB password. Just have to do a little digging, like I did to obtain her personal email account. BTW - she wrote down the password to that on her planner. That's how I got it, thought I hit lottery that night!


----------



## the guy

It's possible WW changed MO after the 1st confrontation.

Does the time line fit? (please don't make me go through 293 post again)

What I mean is if she has no reason to suspect here emails is being hacked why would she change her MO?

Maybe this upstanding Chatholic girl is not going to risk her rep at work by using her work issued devices for an affair?


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> Before assH#le came into the picture - marriage was fine. Even when they were getting to be "a couple", she was still nice and responsive to me. She hid it well then. The last year has been crappy. No sex, hugs, conversations, date nights, time for each other. Had a big blowup argument in March where she said, "Maybe you should leave, maybe it's time for a divorce, etc."
> 
> I incorrectly and foolishly thought maybe it's her hormones and stuff and we just need to spend more time together. She basically does not talk to me unless responding to a question from me. Very irritated responses and attitude from her. Called her out on her demeanor towards me, especially in front of the children. Didn't help much.
> 
> Some days, I feel like slapping her in the face to wake her up from this fantasy land/fog that she's in, but it may not help. This is maybe the person she has evolved and changed into.
> 
> I know ya'll are thinking, "Why is this guy still here?" This person I'm confronting is someone that is not my wife and I'm trying to find out if this is who she really is or if she's just in this funk that can be fixed and get her out of it.
> 
> I realize that if we go back to our marriage like it was, it will fail. So we have to reinvent our marriage going forward. I'm not saying I want R, I'm just not shutting the door on it. I have to let the process play out and make the best informed decision for me/us/family.


I like your throats here and respect your decisions to pursue it and see how things play out. I went that route myself, but I have to say that until you learn the entire truth, you are stuck in limbo and will never be able to make a true and informed decision. I hope you find the truth, so that you can decide the path to pursue (which I think you already know will probably be D, but you can't decide until you are fully sure of which way you truly want to go and have proven that to yourself). Good luck in finding that peace.


----------



## convert

when you do confront stay cool and calm. 
No indication of any violent out burst.
No punching the walls. (this can get you arrested I have seen it)) you can't damage you own property it is considered DM, don't ask me how, I have seen it first hand. the charges got dropped but still

do not cry in front of her.
if you feel so angry that you may not be able to control yourself go take a walk or a drive. (it would be nice to have a VAR in the house if you did leave she might call OM).

what ever you do, do not drink any alcohol (it does not help in the long run) believe me, I tried (a lot).


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> No, she does not have BB messenger app on iphone.
> 
> You're right, might have taken underground to her work blackberry. There might be a way I could get her work BB password. Just have to do a little digging, like I did to obtain her personal email account. BTW - she wrote down the password to that on her planner. That's how I got it, thought I hit lottery that night!


I would also check the database log files from the iPhone if you can get it long enough to back up and retrieve those files. I found that my wife was installing and uninstalling apps to hide her trail (so she might have done this). She would install it on the way to or at work, and then uninstall and delete all data on the way home from work, and repeat the process later in the night after all had gone to bed. She was devious. Had a hidden Skype account, along with several (like 10 different) social media apps, such as twitter, Facebook, snapchat, etc that she was using. For some one that considers herself technologically challenged, she put most developers to shame with her knowledge of hiding the A on her device (also found she was soliciting information from her APs on how to hide the information). They were no match fro me though and all came out in the end.


----------



## drifting on

Chaparral said:


> Way, way, way too cruel.
> 
> Also,.church is not the right place to do this. A church is sacred ground. This needs to be done one on one with compassion for his wife. She doesn't need to be humiliated at church in front of her friends and family. This would be unbelievably mean and unforgiveable.


Chaparral

We will have to agree to disagree on this with all due respect. I had found out where my ww's OMW works and was going to tell her there. My WW gave me her home phone number as she happened to be off that day. OM invaded my family, and yes his advances were accepted by my ww, which I understand. I believe you hit hard and often, you are in a war. At the church she has friends and support most likely. I didn't say I would ask the children to pass it to mom. You get OMW alone then expose. It's her choice to go back in or home. Guess what I hurt too, and her husband was half of the invading army. I wouldn't be mean, I would disclose gently, however you just gave her a grenade and it exploded in her hands. She will feel pain regardless of what I do.


----------



## the guy

pilotranger said:


> Some days, I feel like slapping her in the face to wake her up from this fantasy land/fog that she's in, but it may not help. This is maybe the person she has evolved and changed into.
> 
> .


You are slapping her in the face by exposing to OMW and siblings with evidence you have!
It may or it may not help....you will find out soon enough when you finally have an effective exposure and confrontation......then it will be in her court to confirm if she has evolved or has some hope of coming back.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

pilotranger wrote,
I know ya'll are thinking, "Why is this guy still here?" This person I'm confronting is someone that is not my wife and I'm trying to find out if this is who she really is or if she's just in this funk that can be fixed and get her out of it.

It is who she is/has become but if she is wanting to save marriage and family then once confronted then she can change back to who she was or close to it but only if she wants too, my wife went the way of yours but the reality that she was just his sex toy sunk in and the complete about turn on her part was amazing to see, just the short version and wasn't plain sailing and still a lot better than it was and improving and good for the kids, involve your parish priest once you have confronted her and warned the omv, he/church can help with R and counselling if you both want it and her "friend" will be to busy fighting to save his own wee world to bother with her again. or it may bring it all to a head and she leaves but either way it will be dealt with and good luck


----------



## drifting on

Squeakr said:


> SO they have stopped communicating through means you have access to...since you confronted her about him??
> 
> Seems that it might have gone underground... or at least to something that you have no access to, such as her work phone, work email, or other hidden means. You tipped her off that you were checking and concerned, so it has gone elsewhere is a distinct possibility. I hope for your sake and sanity this is not the case.


Two year affair ends with no communication prior that it was even slowing down. It's underground. Hit hard and often pilot. Best of luck to you.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> They've literally have not text one another since that letter in November. I see all incoming/outgoing texts she has on her phone.
> 
> Only thing I don't have access to is work blackberry and email.


Just want to point this out...

You mentioned that your wife uses an iPhone; if OM uses an iPhone as well, they could be using Apple's iMessage service to communicate, and -- barring an iMessage outage and/or a temporary lapse in 3G/4G coverage -- you'd never see it show up on a phone bill.

They could also be using WhatsApp, Snapchat, Viber, Words w/ Friends... there are tons of ways for people to communicate w/ their APs on the sly.


----------



## the guy

tom67 said:


> Tell his wife in person please.:iagree::iagree:
> 
> Then grab the popcorn and get ready for your w to have a tantrum like a kid would do.


It is so rare to have an oppertunity were the AP and the other betrayed spouse to be in the same place in public.....and your WW will also be there.

In all my years here at TAM this is the first time.

Exposure and a confrontation all in one.

Icing on the cake would be if the surmen at next Sat. mass was on infidelity.


----------



## razgor

GusPolinski said:


> Just want to point this out...
> 
> You mentioned that your wife uses an iPhone; if OM uses an iPhone as well, they could be using Apple's iMessage service to communicate, and -- barring an iMessage outage and/or a temporary lapse in 3G/4G coverage -- you'd never see it show up on a phone bill.
> 
> They could also be using WhatsApp, Snapchat, Viber, Words w/ Friends... there are tons of ways for people to communicate w/ their APs on the sly.


BTW, you can set IMessage to never send a SMS if coverage is not available. It is Messages section of the setup. I would check that setting to see if it is turned off.

Sending simple text messages is by the far the easiest to catch. Very sloppy for a WS to use that method. Since she is aware you know that method of communication she can easily switch to a different means of communicating. Virtually every APP out there has a means of communicating with someone. The new smart phones are a cheaters paradise. I would recommend that you record every single APP she has download onto her phone. Check each one out. Forget the obvious ones like Viber or SnapChat. If she has those installed then you know she is still communicating. Even traffic APPS like Waze or a fitness app like MyFitnessPal can let you send messages to another person. If you find one that has a chat feature then check the notifications on the app. See if any of the notifications are turned off. A sure sign she is hiding communication.

I would demand her work email password as part of the deal to rebuilding your marriage. Same goes for her Apple ID and password. And any banking passwords, credit card passwords. That will give you a lot of power to verify her honesty. If she is unwilling to give you that information, then you know something is up.

Also, a number of big companies offer webmail. Especially if her work email is through Microsoft Exchange. A way to check your work email through the internet. Google her company name and webmail to see if they have a webmail portal. Once you have that password and her company as webmail, you can check her work email at anytime. 

I caught my wife using IMessage. I routed her IMessages to my phone. I got every single text she sent and received for a week. Very easy to do if you have an Iphone as well.

Also, I would recommend searching for a hidden internet email account. Go to google, yahoo and the other big internet email services and click forget your password. Then select "Forgot my username". Enter her work email address and personal email address. If she set up either one with one of her known email accounts it will send a reset password email. It can drive you crazy trying to track down every possible means of communication. 

I kept a log book on my spouse. I religiously checked APPs, checked browser history, phone logs, contact lists(you can download the contact list through the cloud and compare contact lists from a previous download), routed my internet through OpenDNS so I could monitor internet usage and checked my router usage. Also, I recorded vacation and vacation days taken. When she went to the store, when she went out with friends. Check her finances. Did she go to dinner with her girl friends? Then there better be a charge at the restaurant where she said she was going. Periodically check the car, check her purse, closet, under the bed. Details, details, details. All it takes is one slip up on her part to catch them. You have to be methodical and detailed. I admit, it became almost a morbid game for me. At the end of the day I am full blown Apple techie from the wife's affair.


----------



## drifting on

the guy said:


> It is so rare to have an oppertunity were the AP and the other betrayed spouse to be in the same place in public.....and your WW will also be there.
> 
> In all my years here at TAM this is the first time.
> 
> Exposure and a confrontation all in one.
> 
> Icing on the cake would be if the surmen at next Sat. mass was on infidelity.



Couldn't agree more with this post!!! Support for OMW, the hard slap to reality from fantasyland, and basically no planning whatsoever. All of that was done for you on their own action. Pilotranger, I have a question for you. Do you not think your wife stopping sex with you, to truly be with OM, piss poor attitude towards you, and changing church service to Saturday ONLY wasn't a slap in the face to YOU?! Hit hard NOW!! You don't think OM didn't look at you during church and think puppy dog?! Why do you think your wife stopped sex with you? OM outranked you in a war you never knew you were even in!! Hit them hard!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

pilotranger said:


> No, she does not have BB messenger app on iphone.
> 
> You're right, might have taken underground to her work blackberry. There might be a way I could get her work BB password. Just have to do a little digging, like I did to obtain her personal email account. BTW - she wrote down the password to that on her planner. That's how I got it, thought I hit lottery that night!


Why would she keep the condoms if the affair was over? Hugely incriminating for a wife who isn't having sex with her husband, easy to dispose of, easy to replace. Hanging on to them if she didn't need them makes no sense.

Whilst she's going to church and in regular contact with OM the affair is only dormant (at best).

There are lots of seemingly benign apps they can communicate over that use data. These can be deleted at the end of the day and downloaded again when she leaves the house, leaving no trace (except in her purchase history in the app store). Plus there are (apparently) specific cheating apps which won't show up on her app screen and require a password.

If it's gone underground, there's too many ways they could hide their contact. *The way she's treating you now is the biggest indicator she's still cheating.*

Personally I think simple works best. She knows she's having an affair. You don't have to prove anything to her. The less you say, the less she knows about what you know.

A simple: "I know you are having an affair with [OM]. Decide right now if you want to stay married." 

Know that she'll act like a jet fighter with a heat-seeking missile flying towards her. She'll throw flares to distract you:


She'll blame her affair on YOU
She'll claim they were just friends
She'll change the subject
She'll cry
She'll claim it is already over 
She'll blame the break up of OM's family on you and exposing to OMW, oblivious to her own actions
Stay on target. The only thing up for discussion is her affair and whether she still interested in being married to you. Then she has to take steps/actions to show the affair is over and she's committed to you. She will behave exactly like someone who's just had their favourite toy taken from them. 

Whatever you do, don't forgive her on D-Day.


----------



## Chaparral

The biggest red flag for the continuing affair is that she is still treating you like sh!t. Had it ended it looks like she would be a lot more like she used to be.


----------



## italianjob

pilotranger,

when did you find the condoms in her briefcase?
If this was a recent discovery I think it answers the question about the affair being still ongoing or not...


----------



## pilotranger

italianjob said:


> pilotranger,
> 
> when did you find the condoms in her briefcase?
> If this was a recent discovery I think it answers the question about the affair being still ongoing or not...


Last Friday


----------



## italianjob

pilotranger said:


> Last Friday


Then... I think you have your answer...


----------



## Chaparral

Or yet another man


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Chaparral said:


> Or yet another man


Please Lord no..


----------



## EleGirl

drifting on said:


> Chaparral
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree on this with all due respect. I had found out where my ww's OMW works and was going to tell her there. My WW gave me her home phone number as she happened to be off that day. OM invaded my family, and yes his advances were accepted by my ww, which I understand. I believe you hit hard and often, you are in a war. At the church she has friends and support most likely. I didn't say I would ask the children to pass it to mom. *You get OMW alone then expose*. It's her choice to go back in or home. Guess what I hurt too, and her husband was half of the invading army. I wouldn't be mean, I would disclose gently, however you just gave her a grenade and it exploded in her hands. She will feel pain regardless of what I do.


You are assuming that the OMW would be stupid enough to let herself be alone and cornered at a Church service by a man who does not know.

The desire by some here to have the OP to accost the OMW in at a mass is beyond horrible.

Some of the suggests are to sit in the pue next to her and do this not only in front of the congregation but in front of her children.

Again, she and her children are innocents in this. Why the need to publically humiliate her and her children is beyond me. And yes that is what people seem to want... the max drama. And the humiliation in front of God, the congregation and her children just up the ante.


----------



## Scotsirish

After finding out about my wife's affair, I chose the reconcilliation route, mainly because I did not want to subject my child to a broken home experience. I was a foster kid, so I know a little bit about the devastation of broken homes.

Reconcilliation for me = big mistake. Had I a chance to go back and choose divorce, I would. Cut your losses, move on. Your marriage, your life with your wife will never heal. It's always there between you.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Sorry, I haven't gotten past page 1, but if you go to mass and see the OM with his family, walk up to them, give the OM's wife the printouts and screen captures in an envelope and tell her your wife and her husband are cheating together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Scotsirish said:


> After finding out about my wife's affair, I chose the reconcilliation route, mainly because I did not want to subject my child to a broken home experience. I was a foster kid, so I know a little bit about the devastation of broken homes.
> 
> Reconcilliation for me = big mistake. Had I a chance to go back and choose divorce, I would. Cut your losses, move on. Your marriage, your life with your wife will never heal. It's always there between you.


I'm sorry that your recovery has not gone well. But that is your circumstance. Others do recover and go on to rebuild good marriages.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry, I haven't gotten past page 1, but if you go to mass and see the OM with his family, walk up to them, give the OM's wife the printouts and screen captures in an envelope and tell her your wife and her husband are cheating together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Plan 9, I'm quoting you because you're the most recent example but the following is directed at a bunch of people on this thread. So with that said...

What the hell is wrong with you people? Even if it wasn't completely classless to do this in front of the children, have you even considered for a second that OP and OMW might be able to work together to uncover the full extent of what's going on if they do it secretly? Compare notes? Have her check his cell phone bill to see if there was suddenly a new number showing up with a bunch of texts or calls in November when the WW's number stops showing up?

And for the record, doing a public exposure in front of the children is completely without class and I would be embarrassed to be a part of it. Let the betrayed mother decide if or how she breaks the news to her kids.


----------



## MattMatt

Tell her you found the condoms. And say: "By the way, you might need to take a pregnancy test." Pull out a pin and say: "Because me and my little buddy here went to work on your condoms."


----------



## Mr Right

GusPolinski said:


> Just want to point this out...
> 
> You mentioned that your wife uses an iPhone; if OM uses an iPhone as well, they could be using Apple's iMessage service to communicate, and -- barring an iMessage outage and/or a temporary lapse in 3G/4G coverage -- you'd never see it show up on a phone bill.
> 
> They could also be using WhatsApp, Snapchat, Viber, Words w/ Friends... there are tons of ways for people to communicate w/ their APs on the sly.


Yep, here Pilot, read this
Wanna Cheat? Use These Apps To Make Sure You Don't Get Caught | Business Insider


----------



## Mr Right

the guy said:


> It is so rare to have an oppertunity were the AP and the other betrayed spouse to be in the same place in public.....and your WW will also be there.
> 
> In all my years here at TAM this is the first time.
> 
> Exposure and a confrontation all in one.
> 
> Icing on the cake would be if the surmen at next Sat. mass was on infidelity.


Agreed, maybe you should meet with the Heads of your Church ASAP and let them know what is going on and ask them to do a surmem on infidelity next Saturday. Can you imagine the father up there saying how Cheaters are wicked and wretched people and how they have not only betrayed their partners and kids but themselves and God as well? :smthumbup:


----------



## sidney2718

pilotranger said:


> She's devout Catholic (well used to be I guess considering the circumstances). This is not going to bode well with her family. Honestly, they're going to be harder on her than anyone.


No, they are not. In the end blood is thicker than water and they'd no more throw her under the bus than you'd throw one of your kids under the bus.

Sure, they may yell at her in private, but don't look for any magic coming from that direction.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Nucking Futs said:


> Plan 9, I'm quoting you because you're the most recent example but the following is directed at a bunch of people on this thread. So with that said...
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you people? Even if it wasn't completely classless to do this in front of the children, have you even considered for a second that OP and OMW might be able to work together to uncover the full extent of what's going on if they do it secretly? Compare notes? Have her check his cell phone bill to see if there was suddenly a new number showing up with a bunch of texts or calls in November when the WW's number stops showing up?
> 
> And for the record, doing a public exposure in front of the children is completely without class and I would be embarrassed to be a part of it. Let the betrayed mother decide if or how she breaks the news to her kids.


How much proof does a person need? He has naked photos of the OM, plenty of illicite texts of all their escapades - things she won't do for her husband, etc... So what more does he need? This is my beef with the surveilance crowd. While I think some is needed to figure things out, there comes a time where all you end up doing is wasting time. He can get the whole story from his wife. If she refuses to talk, he walks. The end. Why people torture themselves trying to convince somone to reengage is ludicrous. You give one, maybe two chances max. No satisfaction? Then adios to the marriage. Life is too short to play games.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718

Wolfman1968 said:


> Not sure that OM's wife seeing her husband send a comment like "you're more beautiful than my wife" is really all that much harsher than learning that he's having sex with another woman. One is saying it, the other is acting it out. Both are pretty harsh
> 
> The belief that the main reason for exposure is to force an end to the affair is only true IF he wants to Reconcile. If not, then it doesn't matter much if the affair ends or not, since he is dedicated to ending the marriage anyway. If he doesn't want to Reconcile, then helping the OM's wife and giving the POS OM a little payback become more important reasons.


If all the OP wants is a divorce, then he should divorce. Most of the civilized world has no fault divorces. He doesn't need a reason, he doesn't need her to admit anything, all he needs is to file.

Yes, they will have to deal with splitting the marital assets and child custody and that may require lawyers. But if all he wants is a D, there is no point in playing games.


----------



## sidney2718

BjornFree said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Lets flip the script here. If your spouse wasliving a double life and you got to know only a small part of it, that would make you vulnerable to get gaslighted like nobody's business. You don't want to end up there for the next few years of your life living under this illusion that your POSpouse is actually a venerable saint who made a small little mistake while he was out arranging bunga bunga parties with underage hookers.
> 
> Would you not want to know the truth?


The purpose of the OP is not to bring truth to the great unwashed masses. He needs a goal. If he wants an R, his actions should drive in that direction. In that case blasting the affair and letting the OM's wife know are probably good moves.

If on the other hand, he wants a D, then his strategy is totally different. He wants the easiest D he can get from his wife. A fight to the death is NOT what he wants and will not help him in any way.

Think about it.


----------



## Mr Right

azteca1986 said:


> Why would she keep the condoms if the affair was over? Hugely incriminating for a wife who isn't having sex with her husband, easy to dispose of, easy to replace. Hanging on to them if she didn't need them makes no sense.
> 
> Whilst she's going to church and in regular contact with OM the affair is only dormant (at best).
> 
> There are lots of seemingly benign apps they can communicate over that use data. These can be deleted at the end of the day and downloaded again when she leaves the house, leaving no trace (except in her purchase history in the app store). Plus there are (apparently) specific cheating apps which won't show up on her app screen and require a password.
> 
> If it's gone underground, there's too many ways they could hide their contact. *The way she's treating you now is the biggest indicator she's still cheating.*
> 
> Personally I think simple works best. She knows she's having an affair. You don't have to prove anything to her. The less you say, the less she knows about what you know.
> 
> A simple: "I know you are having an affair with [OM]. Decide right now if you want to stay married."
> 
> Know that she'll act like a jet fighter with a heat-seeking missile flying towards her. She'll throw flares to distract you:
> 
> 
> She'll blame her affair on YOU
> She'll claim they were just friends
> She'll change the subject
> She'll cry
> She'll claim it is already over
> She'll blame the break up of OM's family on you and exposing to OMW, oblivious to her own actions
> Stay on target. The only thing up for discussion is her affair and whether she still interested in being married to you. Then she has to take steps/actions to show the affair is over and she's committed to you. She will behave exactly like someone who's just had their favourite toy taken from them.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't forgive her on D-Day.


I wouldn't let her know that you do not know what you want to do and that D is a real possibility. Your goal is to also destroy her world so you can build another relationship, a real one built on honesty where you call the shoots and she does all the heavy lifting.


----------



## weightlifter

A word on confrontations.

"Golly honey this looks bad" will not work

Good opening line: " do you have any idea what it is like to know MY wife id fvcking Chad Littlepeen during lunch in the car I pay for while i am breaking my back to support this family?"

Toss down a piece of proof.
Denial
Toss down more proof
Denial
Another piece of proof

Im a huge fan of exposure to both families with proof and first circle friends.

I am NOT a fan of workplace exposure that can lead to her being fired or demoted.


----------



## Mr Right

Nucking Futs said:


> Plan 9, I'm quoting you because you're the most recent example but the following is directed at a bunch of people on this thread. So with that said...
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you people? Even if it wasn't completely classless to do this in front of the children, have you even considered for a second that OP and OMW might be able to work together to uncover the full extent of what's going on if they do it secretly? Compare notes? Have her check his cell phone bill to see if there was suddenly a new number showing up with a bunch of texts or calls in November when the WW's number stops showing up?
> 
> And for the record, doing a public exposure in front of the children is completely without class and I would be embarrassed to be a part of it. Let the betrayed mother decide if or how she breaks the news to her kids.


He doesn't need to do a song and dance about it, just tell her that her POS Husband has been f&@king his wife and hand her the evidence with his phone number and let her know if she needs to call she can call anytime, the whole thing should like 30 seconds at the most. He could do this after Church while the POS wife is walking to her car.


----------



## Squeakr

Mr Right said:


> Agreed, maybe you should meet with the Heads of your Church ASAP and let them know what is going on and ask them to do a surmem on infidelity next Saturday. Can you imagine the father up there saying how Cheaters are wicked and wretched people and how they have not only betrayed their partners and kids but themselves and God as well? :smthumbup:


Won't make a difference, believe me. When I was with my STBXW and she was cheating (before I discovered) she sat in on her first mass in forever and it was about adultery. She had to rush home afterward and send an email to her AP with the Subject of Catholic Guilt and the following text: 

"Got a whole dose of it today!!! Tough to listen to at times! But a
descent message. (maybe it was my perspective since I'm am committing adultery and going straight to hell anyway  lol."



So as you can see it doesn't matter to them and they think everyone else is a fool for following the rules and being faithful!


----------



## Archangel2

weightlifter said:


> A word on confrontations.
> 
> "Golly honey this looks bad" will not work
> 
> Good opening line: " do you have any idea what it is like to know MY wife id fvcking Chad Littlepeen during lunch in the car I pay for while i am breaking my back to support this family?"
> 
> Toss down a piece of proof.
> Denial
> Toss down more proof
> Denial
> Another piece of proof
> 
> Im a huge fan of exposure to both families with proof and first circle friends.
> 
> I am NOT a fan of workplace exposure that can lead to her being fired or demoted.


And please consider filing for the annulment. It will avoid the circus of a public confrontation but will have a profound impact on the two "devout" Catholic hypocrites.


----------



## sidney2718

Mr Right said:


> He doesn't need to do a song and dance about it, just tell her that her POS Husband has been f&@king his wife and hand her the evidence with his phone number and let her know if she needs to call she can call anytime, the whole thing should like 30 seconds at the most. He could do this after Church while the POS wife is walking to her car.


All this while she's carrying her autistic child, another child is running off in some strange direction, and the third one (I think there were three) is shouting for daddy.

And you think you are going to get 100% of her attention?

Last: the OP needs to know his goal before he decides what to do. His actions depend upon his goal.


----------



## pilotranger

the guy said:


> You are slapping her in the face by exposing to OMW and siblings with evidence you have!
> It may or it may not help....you will find out soon enough when you finally have an effective exposure and confrontation......then it will be in her court to confirm if she has evolved or has some hope of coming back.


Just so all you know, my reference to "slapping" is purely figurative. Don't want to be seen as a violent person and can be used against me.


----------



## pilotranger

Mr Right said:


> Agreed, maybe you should meet with the Heads of your Church ASAP and let them know what is going on and ask them to do a surmem on infidelity next Saturday. Can you imagine the father up there saying how Cheaters are wicked and wretched people and how they have not only betrayed their partners and kids but themselves and God as well? :smthumbup:



One Sunday, we all gathered outside after mass, and I said to the pastor, "Father Jim, I really enjoyed your sermon 2 months ago when you said as husband and wife, "Love is not just a feeling, but a commitment." And I repeated it twice and looking at my WW the whole time.


----------



## pilotranger

MattMatt said:


> Tell her you found the condoms. And say: "By the way, you might need to take a pregnancy test." Pull out a pin and say: "Because me and my little buddy here went to work on your condoms."


Boy wouldn't that be something if she got pregnant because the condom broke or slipped. I wouldn't be posting this by now. Would be sipping margaritas on the beach and enjoying her family berate her till no tomorrow.


----------



## pilotranger

Mr Right said:


> He doesn't need to do a song and dance about it, just tell her that her POS Husband has been f&@king his wife and hand her the evidence with his phone number and let her know if she needs to call she can call anytime, the whole thing should like 30 seconds at the most. He could do this after Church while the POS wife is walking to her car.


It's pretty obvious the naked pics with the POS face on it and all the OOH, UUGGH crap going back and forth. It's pretty damning evidence. And frankly, if the OMW does not see the light, then I'd have to question her too.


----------



## weightlifter

Btw that opening line is a composite of several inwrote for peeps here and it was successful.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> If that email concretely demonstrates the OM's level of depravity and the honest scope of his betrayal I would think it would be cruel not to show her. Sometimes the truth hurts but who are we to decide how much hurt someone is willing or able to absorb? By not revealing this isn't pilot engaging in his own version of trickle truth?





bfree said:


> Yes I have sat with someone when they received this information. I've also been the one providing the information. It's far worse when some is withheld and discovered later.


I was never arguing for concealment, I was arguing for tact and gentleness. I would give enough to prove there is a problem, and then answer questions.


----------



## lordmayhem

So how did the meeting with the lawyer go today? Good thing you were able to get an appointment so fast with the holidays and all.


----------



## pilotranger

lordmayhem said:


> So how did the meeting with the lawyer go today? Good thing you were able to get an appointment so fast with the holidays and all.


It went better than I expected. Given my situation and my work status, and their moral compass, custody of kids for me should not be an issue. Financially, it's a good position for me too since my WW makes (double) than what I make. So dividing the assets is also a win for me.

The days of 50/50 split for assets really does not apply anymore.


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> It went better than I expected. Given my situation and my work status, and their moral compass, custody of kids for me should not be an issue. Financially, it's a good position for me too since my WW makes (double) than what I make. So dividing the assets is also a win for me.
> 
> The days of 50/50 split for assets really apply anymore.


I hope this is true, but sometimes lawyers have high expectations and quote these as the truth. If she makes so much, she will possibly get a better lawyer and moral compass generally has nothing to play in custody unless it can be proven that the activites caused the children to be put in harms way. The thing is that if she fights it, then it could come down to what a judge decides and it would be good for you to research what the laws of the state say as this is generally how the judges will rule. Don't expect that she will just roll over and give you everything you want. In fact if she becomes vindictive she could go for the jugular with you. Most of your evidence will be inadmissible in court as it was gained without her permissions and this could be pursued as a hacking case which is a federal offense (rarely a pursued or prosecuted offense but a possibility to be aware of). 

Good luck and you might want to consult some other lawyers to insure you are getting a good assessment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

Squeakr said:


> I hope this is true, but sometimes lawyers have high expectations and quote these as the truth. If she makes so much, she will possibly get a better lawyer and moral compass generally has nothing to play in custody unless it can be proven that the activites caused the children to be put in harms way. The thing is that if she fights it, then it could come down to what a judge decides and it would be good for you to research what the laws of the state say as this is generally how the judges will rule. Don't expect that she will just roll over and give you everything you want. In fact if she becomes vindictive she could go for the jugular with you. Most of your evidence will be inadmissible in court as it was gained without her permissions and this could be pursued as a hacking case which is a federal offense (rarely a pursued or prosecuted offense but a possibility to be aware of).
> 
> *Good luck and you might want to consult some other lawyers to insure you are getting a good assessment.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Also bear in mind a lawyer you've consulted with won't take her on as a client, so consult with all the best divorce lawyers in your area.


----------



## pilotranger

Squeakr said:


> I hope this is true, but sometimes lawyers have high expectations and quote these as the truth. If she makes so much, she will possibly get a better lawyer and moral compass generally has nothing to play in custody unless it can be proven that the activites caused the children to be put in harms way. The thing is that if she fights it, then it could come down to what a judge decides and it would be good for you to research what the laws of the state say as this is generally how the judges will rule. Don't expect that she will just roll over and give you everything you want. In fact if she becomes vindictive she could go for the jugular with you. Most of your evidence will be inadmissible in court as it was gained without her permissions and this could be pursued as a hacking case which is a federal offense (rarely a pursued or prosecuted offense but a possibility to be aware of).
> 
> Good luck and you might want to consult some other lawyers to insure you are getting a good assessment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My attorney is a former judge in another state and a BULLDOG. I'm pretty confident in her assessment.


----------



## the guy

pilotranger said:


> Just so all you know, my reference to "slapping" is purely figurative. Don't want to be seen as a violent person and can be used against me.


No, that's my job.:


----------



## drifting on

EleGirl said:


> You are assuming that the OMW would be stupid enough to let herself be alone and cornered at a Church service by a man who does not know.
> 
> The desire by some here to have the OP to accost the OMW in at a mass is beyond horrible.
> 
> Some of the suggests are to sit in the pue next to her and do this not only in front of the congregation but in front of her children.
> 
> Again, she and her children are innocents in this. Why the need to publically humiliate her and her children is beyond me. And yes that is what people seem to want... the max drama. And the humiliation in front of God, the congregation and her children just up the ante.



Elegirl

You must think I look like a hoodlum if a woman would feel cornered and alone at a church service. Or maybe a monster that is out to harm churchgoers. I assure you I'm not. My family also attends the Saturday evening mass (I work most Sundays), which usually has fifty or less people. The people at our church are very friendly and talkative. I see men and women leave the sanctuary (3 year old twins get active) talk a few and re-enter. I'll be an SOB. But nobody was arguing or even appeared to be mad. Most were smiling and jovial, but I will say the subject matter was most likely not adultery. 

Nowhere did I say to accost anyone. I said to give her a note, we need to talk. This is not accosting in any way. 

While she is innocent, as are the children, you could hand her a book of hymns withe the above verbiage to her and the children would be none the wiser. I don't know the ages of OM's children. 

If I met her at any other public place, (restaurant, coffee shop) am I still humiliating her in public? Yes. It is humiliating. I would hope OMW would have empathy in knowing I am also humiliated. This isn't what I asked for, I didn't cheat. My WW and OM did. I hold them accountable for their actions. That's how I am. You punch me, I punch you. You invade my family in the most despicable and horrendous acts to break us apart. Your damn right I'll retaliate LEGALLY. My WW's OMW began calling my WW at work harassing WW about the affair. I told my WW I would take care if it. WW said, no, it's a consequence for my actions getting involved with OM. I almost fell over that my WW said that. OMW called a total of three times in three days. Unbeknownst to my WW I told OMW I know she has been calling my WW. I told her to stop, nicely, or I would launch an attack on her family. Want to guess where? Church.

A week later OM's daughter called my WW. Children are innocent correct? Not in all cases Elegirl. It took many friends and a mutual friend from work to stop me from attending their church. 

Do you know if pilotrangers OM is involved with any other church members? I don't. That doesn't mean he isn't. 

I respect you and the posts you make Elegirl, but what happened to me is why I posted what I did. Also you can go back to the first post I made about exposing at church and said, THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO. It's an idea for maximum exposure to kill the affair. I stood amongst ruins wanting to kill myself over what happened to me. I imagine OMW is going to hurt just as much.

Pilotranger, I apologize for the thread jack and will not post on your thread in the future. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Wazza said:


> I was never arguing for concealment, I was arguing for tact and gentleness. I would give enough to prove there is a problem, and then answer questions.


Sorry to say but I've been involved in several of these and gentleness is irrelevant. Trying to be gentle only seems to increase the BS's anxiety and perpetuates their denial. The best way it seems to me is to just rip off the bandaid in one tug. Anything less has just proven to be cruel and ineffective.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilotranger,

I already posted some ideas to expose and confront, but what I would do is say nothing and get her served under adultery (if it is posible where you live) ASAP. Geting her served in any place except home ( because of your kids) and her job ( in case she may lose. You can get alymoney from her as she earns more than you do). Print every single email and prove that you have, wrap it and the same day left it on the table for her to find, take your kids for a meal and a movie just to keep them unaware of what is going on. Of course you give on hand to OMW a copy of everything before taking kids out.

D is a prosses that you can stop so you can hold it as long as you want depending on your wifes reaction.


----------



## BjornFree

bfree said:


> Sorry to say but I've been involved in several of these and gentleness is irrelevant. Trying to be gentle only seems to increase the BS's anxiety and perpetuates their denial. The best way it seems to me is to just rip off the bandaid in one tug. Anything less has just proven to be cruel and ineffective.


:iagree:

In my experience, it really doesn't matter how you deliver a shocking, life altering message. The content in itself is enough to turn someone's world upside down. I think its especially cruel for someone to withhold or try and minimize the effect of delivering the said message.

The best way would be to hand over the evidence to her personally, tell her that her husband has been having an emotional and sexual affair with your wife and give your contact details and leave. 


Unless you're a sneaky little [email protected] who wants to be the shoulder for her to cry on that is.....

But I'm definitely against doing it in church because it's a little cruel and humiliating for the OMW and more importantly because there are some people who are not really interested in seeing someone else wash their dirty laundry in public.


----------



## allwillbewell

PR
as a BS also, I know all you have left is your dignity and the high ground. Don't lose that trying to wrake vengeance on cheaters..they will get whats coming to them sooner or later. Don 't fall for some of the worst advice I have ever heard on TAM which is to confront and expose at Mass, why make one of the few sources of solace for you and OMW a trigger for the rest of your life? As a.Catholic you know the Mass is sacred dont profane it any more than your cheating spouse has done. You will regret it.

Expose the affair to OMW with conclusive evidence and offer more if she needs it along with your telephone number..she will confront her WH herself. This will blow up and by your wife's reactions you will know what to do. 

Please dont lose your self respect and honor over things you have control over.,your own actions and words.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilotranger,

At this moment you have read alot of point of view about how to proceed, In a few days almost every angle has been covered and as I believe you are an intelligent man, I presume you have your own plan at least for confronting exposure matters.

I think that any further planning is point less until you know where your wife stands when everything comes to light.

I woukld like to list some, IMHO, main subjets to consider in your present situation:

_Cheating is a choise not a consecuence, this is not your fault, is 100% hers.

She must ask for R not you! You just have to be open to talk about it and what would it take.

Afater confronting do 180.

No contact is a must to even consider R.

R is a gift you could gave her everyday, if some time from the begining of R you feel like leaving be sure is your rigth. You own her nothing.

Expose to OMW ASAP and porvide as much information you can, open a communication way in case compare notes are needed.
Toxic friends and anablers must be gone to even consider R.

Ask her to leave your house, at least your bed. Unther no circunstances you are leaving your home.

Start IC ASAP and take some AD if needed.

Focus on your self, gym, frineds, hobbies, new job, etc.

Consider exposing big time if you wanto to R, if just D avoid the drama.

Read NMMNG and the MMSLP, this is a must in yiur current situation.
_
I am sure there are a lot of other points to list form the great people in TAM, if anyone feels that must correct or add more please do it.

Pilot, you are not alone and you are in the rigth place, keep posting if needed even just to vent.

Good luck


----------



## warlock07

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry that your recovery has not gone well. But that is your circumstance. Others do recover and go on to rebuild good marriages.


Yes, that was his experience he was sharing and his POV. What were you trying to do or imply here ?


----------



## Graywolf2

italianjob said:


> pilotranger, when did you find the condoms in her briefcase?
> If this was a recent discovery I think it answers the question about the affair being still ongoing or not...





pilotranger said:


> Last Friday


Events may have moved passed this but you could put a small mark or tear on the condom wrapper. Then you could check again in a few days and see if the condom is gone or if it’s a different condom.

The condom by itself is a smoking gun. You might just confront her with that and see how much she lies. You could file for divorce based upon that alone. 

If you don’t reveal that you have her password then you could monitor her communications during the divorce proceedings. You can alwys stop the proceedings should you decide to R.


----------



## pilotranger

Nucking Futs said:


> Plan 9, I'm quoting you because you're the most recent example but the following is directed at a bunch of people on this thread. So with that said...
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you people? Even if it wasn't completely classless to do this in front of the children, have you even considered for a second that OP and OMW might be able to work together to uncover the full extent of what's going on if they do it secretly? Compare notes? Have her check his cell phone bill to see if there was suddenly a new number showing up with a bunch of texts or calls in November when the WW's number stops showing up?
> 
> And for the record, doing a public exposure in front of the children is completely without class and I would be embarrassed to be a part of it. Let the betrayed mother decide if or how she breaks the news to her kids.



I would never do anything in front of my children (or theirs) to harm them. The OM and WW have already done enough harming. When I expose, it's just going to be with the OMW in a nice sealed envelope with my contact information.

I would advise the OMW to look through my evidence and do some additional digging on her own before taking action on her part. I would be free to compare notes if she needs to, but it's not important. The facts are the facts and I have lots of it.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> I would never do anything in front of my children (or theirs) to harm them. The OM and WW have already done enough harming. When I expose, it's just going to be with the OMW in a nice sealed envelope with my contact information.
> 
> I would advise the OMW to look through my evidence and do some additional digging on her own before taking action on her part. I would be free to compare notes if she needs to, but it's not important. The facts are the facts and I have lots of it.


Make sure that you hand the evidence to her yourself... don't mail it or have it delivered by someone else. Otherwise it would be too easy for OM to intercept it himself or, if OMW does actually read through it first, for him to call bullsh*t on your claims. Also introduce yourself (duh) and be very clear about what it is that you're handing her; in other words, don't just hand her a big envelope of heartbreak and then walk away.

Additionally, ask her not to confront her husband until AFTER you've confronted your wife. Or (even better) maybe you could arrange to confront simultaneously. Either way, it would be best if neither OM nor your WW have the opportunity to warn the other.


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> You are Catholic and a man.
> 
> So what was said is not calling you a [email protected] / slvt.
> 
> Of course you do not mind... it's not a insult and attack on you.


look, I don't like attacks on Catholics either. When there is an attack on Catholics, it affects me too. Whether woman or man. However, I am someone who takes things in context.

And despite being a Catholic, I get frustrated over some of the things that occurs with the lay people of the church who I sit next to every Sunday. With half of them, the teachings of the church fall on deaf ears. I know some who are swingers, adulterers, or greedy as hell. While I will always defend my denomination, I understand criticism of any religious background and don't get too much into it. 

So I now focus on the individual, not necessarily their background as some of the people who I know who are Catholic are less than some of the people who are not. And some are the best people I know. 

That's why I don't mind an occasional joke about anyone if it's used in a well intended context as Longwalk was doing.


----------



## the guy

This is an awesome community....I never even though about the kids!

It took others to point that out and I regress. Exposure and confrontation should be done without the kids involved.

I still would sit next to them at mass, just to phuck with your old ladies head! I think it sure would ignite some fishing on WW or AP and if it shows up on your sources then it might not have gone underground....if it doesn't show up then there is a good chance they have a new way of contacting each other.

I mean since no contact has been detected since Nov. I would have to think that one of them would make contact to discuss the fact that they were both sitting so close to each other at church.

IDK but it might be a good way to set up your wife to see if in fact they stopped all contact or found a new MO.


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> LW not being Catholic makes no difference. It's mostly non-Catholics who make these joking and not-so-joking comments about Catholic women. You would be surprised if you knew how many people believe that nonsense.
> 
> I made one, simple comment about a post that I found offensive. I found it offensive because it just gets tiresome to have those kinds of things thrown in our faces.
> 
> I made the comment so that LW would realize that many people do not find that funny, but insulting.
> 
> It would have stayed at that one comment and EI's comment saying that she also found it inappropriate.
> 
> But then several people have gone on to post that basically I and other women are wrong to have the feelings/belief that it was inappropriate. So I'm simply replying to the posts that are basically saying the some men are ok with classing an entire group of women as loose women.


noone is classifying an entire group as being something. 

You took a joke and you lashed back. Fine. 

However, I agree with Happyman that a one time rebuke was all that was necessary, not a 4 page hammering that doesn't help the OP


----------



## Graywolf2

Graywolf2 said:


> The condom by itself is a smoking gun. You might just confront her with that and see how much she lies. You could file for divorce based upon that alone.
> 
> If you don’t reveal that you have her password then you could monitor her communications during the divorce proceedings. You can alwys stop the proceedings should you decide to R.


I’m not by any means recommending that you should R but this might be the best way of finding out if you should. 

You can see how much she comes clean. 

Also, you can find out what she says to the OM. She might tell him that she loves you so much that she can’t believe that she did it. Or she might insult you. 

You have so much proof that it might be smart to hold some back.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Pilotranger, would you mind saying what country you and your WW are from originally ?


----------



## Suspecting2014

GusPolinski said:


> pilotranger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would never do anything in front of my children (or theirs) to harm them. The OM and WW have already done enough harming. When I expose, it's just going to be with the OMW in a nice sealed envelope with my contact information.
> 
> I would advise the OMW to look through my evidence and do some additional digging on her own before taking action on her part. I would be free to compare notes if she needs to, but it's not important. The facts are the facts and I have lots of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure that you hand the evidence to her yourself... don't mail it or have it delivered by someone else. Otherwise it would be too easy for OM to intercept it himself or, if OMW does actually read through it first, for him to call bullsh*t on your claims. Also introduce yourself (duh) and be very clear about what it is that you're handing her; in other words, don't just hand her a big envelope of heartbreak and then walk away.
> 
> Additionally, ask her not to confront her husband until AFTER you've confronted your wife. Or (even better) maybe you could arrange to confront simultaneously. Either way, it would be best if neither OM nor your WW have the opportunity to warn the other.
Click to expand...

Pilot,

If you decide to expose to OMW before confronting your wife, l think you need a contingency plan in case she confront the moment you give her the affair evidence.

From other angle, working together you could get much more information about the affair.

Anyhow as this affair looks like is over and your wife is still detached from you, IMO confront and expose big time ASAP, and if she wants to R ask her to take a poly.

IMO as long as you delay confrontation your anger is growing.


----------



## soccermom2three

There are not just the OP's kids and the OMW's kids to think of when exposing at church. Children attend the Mass too. Kids don't get shuffled off to a separate room for bible study or daycare.


----------



## Chaparral

I think giving your wife his name and that you found out they were having an affair since x/xx/xx is all you need to do. I would take a hole punch and punch big holes in her rubbers too. She's hanging on to them in case of a bootie call if they are actually broken up. Her nasty behavior indicates its not or she may be poking some one else.

I wouldn't tell her anything else except to imply other people know about and rated her out.

The most important thing is being tight lipped, unemotional (like an executioner) and not revealing sources. 

I would let the omw look at his naked a$$ but not reveal to anyone your sources. You will need Intel during divorce or reconcilliation


----------



## Chaparral

If she makes more money, that's a reason to not divorce you. You get half of everything including retirement funds, property and maybe alimony and child support.

Sleep with one eye open.

Remember your the shark, she's a bait fish.


----------



## wmn1

EleGirl said:


> For a lot of men who cheat, sex is just a sport. Women know this. It is probably the case with this guy. While the sex is bad, him naming his wife and comparing her to his AP cuts deep. It is a direct attack on his wife. I cannot explain it... that is the reaction I had to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot does not know what he wants yet. If he goes into the exposure to destroy, it's not going to go well. It is him focusing his energy in the wrong place.


This guy needs to get blown up and his wife needs to be decisive in how she reacts to it.

Shock value may stink but TT won't help her either. I say lay all the cards on the table.

I am sorry for her as her and Pilot are the victims but it serves her no purpose to think this is not as bad as it really is


----------



## Dg itch

Pilotranger, sorry to see your post. Any time is bad, but Xmas particularly tough time to experience this. I can tell you from experience that the shock, numbness and pain of the betrayal will always be there in that time and place, but you will move past it by moving on, leaving it behind in time. You will get perspective, you will take the best of all you had with her and keep that for yourself and the kids, you will leave the crap behind. Closure begins with your own apology to her for your role in it all, and it ends when you can genuinely say thank you to her, for whatever was/is good, for three beautiful kids, for your own growth, etc. And thank you to God for giving you the truth at a time in your life you can handle it, for giving you new life, the opportunity to reinvent yourself and fulfill your destiny as a great dad, as a kind, loyal and faithful partner. You don't lose here; you win.

So we all come at this from our own perspectives, but you are where I was 11 years ago. Strikingly similar. Weirdly so. I felt like you do now. I thought I could heroically make it work, I underestimated my kids ability to cope, all of it. I got all sincere and altruistic and took one for the team and fell on my sword and kept wearing the now meaningless ring she had given me, blah blah blah. Truth is, that just doesn't work. At the end of the day, going all understanding n forgiving on her is sort of passive-aggressive on your part, it will leave her with I washable guilt on her hands, and it will NEVER truly go away. So, even if you want it to resolve with the two of you together, nice-nice is not a winning strategy. Because she has totally trashed the trust and fidelity that defines marriage, and you are actually not married, other than in the legal sense. The marriage ended a while ago, you only just got the memo.

So she's got an emotional wall already, and if you don't do things the right way she could very easily get a slash/burn lawyer involved and you end up gutted financially, and your relationship with the kids is damaged by her having you kicked outta the family home. She will rationalize it by villianizing you however she must to justify her "sins." The danger here is that the sins are huge...

So here's what you REALLY need to do. First, do not alert your lying cheating ex-wife. Just be totally normal, nonchalant. It's been going on a long time anyways right? Look in Martindale-Hubble for an AV-rated, board-certified family lawyer. This means they are rated best by other lawyers and judges. This also means maybe 5-10k retainer, but I promise you it will save you so much in the long run and with a job, a house, and three kids you're going to spend it anyways. Get all your info together, get your finances straight, develop a parenting plan to stabilize the kids, either have her removed from the home, or perhaps an option for her to stay for a while, whatever fits. Figure it out and get the papers ready to file. At the right time, have her served. I think during school year is best, school is stabilizing for the kids.

There's a whole lot more to all that, but use the guidance of an AV rated family lawyer, these are generally not the slash n burn idiots.

Decide to be at your best. My kids know their mom is a lying cheating ho who is high-functioning and has some great qualities as well. I deal with this by telling them that how parents live their lives is not their job. Their job is to learn and grow and build their own lives, like when they build something with their Legos, they use the best pieces they have, and leave the stinky pieces out.. And the process will never end for them, they will continue to find the good pieces in their parents, teachers, coaches, whomever they admire.. And do this yourself as well, take the best pieces of your life and all who have touched you, use this to reinvent yourself however you best can do, leaving out the crappy pieces from last week and whatever else...

And in the end you will treasure your relationships with your children the most.. And strange as it may sound, the day is fast approaching when you will want their mom to be in a fulfilling, stable relationship with a good guy, because that's what's best for your kids.. And sooner than you can imagine you will find a great mom, partner, companion.. Not a replacement, not a substitute, just the next phase in you and your children's lives..

Live with passion, dude.


----------



## happy as a clam

pilotranger said:


> They've literally have not text one another since that letter in November. I see all incoming/outgoing texts she has on her phone.


Do you realize how many cheaters utilize burner phones? For 30 bucks she (and he) can pick up a TracPhone from Target and you would never know about it.

She could also create a new "junk" email account that you would never know about.

I hope that's not the case.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> They've literally have not text one another since that letter in November. I see all incoming/outgoing texts she has on her phone.
> 
> Only thing I don't have access to is work blackberry and email.





happy as a clam said:


> Do you realize how many cheaters utilize burner phones? For 30 bucks she (and he) can pick up a TracPhone from Target and you would never know about it.
> 
> She could also create a new "junk" email account that you would never know about.
> 
> I hope that's not the case.


Well, let's look at what we do know...

* PR found condoms in his WW's briefcase. Sure, they might have been old, but I'd think that, if she'd sent the e-mail to OM and had broken things off, she might have thrown them out.

Of course that's assuming that she's not started seeing someone else.

* WW is still being pretty sh*tty w/ OP.

Based on those two items alone, I'd say that it's pretty safe to assume that _something_ is still going on.

PR, does your wife use a desktop or laptop computer?


----------



## pilotranger

happy as a clam said:


> Do you realize how many cheaters utilize burner phones? For 30 bucks she (and he) can pick up a TracPhone from Target and you would never know about it.
> 
> She could also create a new "junk" email account that you would never know about.
> 
> I hope that's not the case.


Well, here's the thing. I think they do have burner phones because on one of the selfies, the phone protector/cover is black case, and she has a different color case for her personal phone. So, I've been digging to see if I can find that potential burner phone.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Well, here's the thing. I think they do have burner phones because on one of the selfies, the phone protector/cover is black case, and she has a different color case for her personal phone. So, I've been digging to see if I can find that potential burner phone.


Could it be the Blackberry? Either way, what was the time/date stamp on the selfie?

Either way, it will probably be somewhere in her vehicle, or maybe her purse or briefcase.

Has she started spending large amounts of time outside, in the garage, or alone in the bathroom since the texts to and from her personal phone stopped in November?


----------



## pilotranger

GusPolinski said:


> Well, let's look at what we do know...
> 
> * PR found condoms in his WW's briefcase. Sure, they might have been old, but I'd think that, if she'd sent the e-mail to OM and had broken things off, she might have thrown them out.
> 
> Of course that's assuming that she's not started seeing someone else.
> 
> * WW is still being pretty sh*tty w/ OP.
> 
> Based on those two items alone, I'd say that it's pretty safe to assume that _something_ is still going on.
> 
> PR, does your wife use a desktop or laptop computer?



She uses laptop at home, but at work I think it's desktop.

Just found this out today - the condoms in briefcase are gone. She probably threw them away due to:

1. she realizes how she phucked up 
2. she probably knows that I might be on to something.

I think based on the letter drafted in November, I think she has cut it off and is starting to feel some remorse, but I don't know to what degree. 

I did take pictures of the condom by the way the other day, so I still have the proof (round of applause please!)

BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why would he have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now. :smthumbup:


----------



## pilotranger

GusPolinski said:


> Could it be the Blackberry? Either way, what was the time/date stamp on the selfie?
> 
> Either way, it will probably be somewhere in her vehicle, or maybe her purse or briefcase.
> 
> Has she started spending large amounts of time outside, in the garage, or alone in the bathroom since the texts to and from her personal phone stopped in November?


No, she's actually been doing the opposite. She just hops in the shower now right away. It used to be a long drawn out shower from the time doors closed to finish. Now, she closes the doors and she's in/out relatively quick.


----------



## Squeakr

Do you have photo sharing turned on on the iPhones and maybe she saw it in the photo roll and new she was busted, so she got rid of the evidence (or God forbid, used them)?


----------



## larry.gray

Burner phones require charging. Especially smart phones as they burn through a charge in a day or two.

Unless she's got a way to secure the phone at work, it's probably in the car or at home. Start checking for all of the out of the way places like closets, garage; etc... where the phone may be left to charge.

There was one story here where a BS notified their WS that they were onto them by calling the WS's burner phone.


----------



## larry.gray

pilotranger said:


> No, she's actually been doing the opposite. She just hops in the shower now right away. It used to be a long drawn out shower from the time doors closed to finish. Now, she closes the doors and she's in/out relatively quick.


If she's in the bury mode now, the burner phone may be gone. I'm betting she was using it in there before. I'd still look for it though.


----------



## pilotranger

larry.gray said:


> If she's in the bury mode now, the burner phone may be gone. I'm betting she was using it in there before. I'd still look for it though.


Yep, I've been looking in her closet and the car. She probably has it stashed at work somewhere.


----------



## pilotranger

larry.gray said:


> If she's in the bury mode now, the burner phone may be gone. I'm betting she was using it in there before. I'd still look for it though.


No matter. I'll start with the condoms and then let her try to explain her way out of that. Then will show pics and text/emails. Based on her demeanor, I think she's blowing up inside right now. She knows something is coming, but don't know what. And some remorse is starting to kick in.

This forum has been extremely helpful and everyone's comments and suggestions has really helped me deal with this. I appreciate all of you and wish each of you a Happy New Year!

pilotranger


----------



## Mr Right

Pilot, does she use or have access to the computer your on? You also said that she uses a LapTop, do you know the Password as I would be installing a key logger pronto!!!


----------



## 3putt

pilotranger said:


> No matter. I'll start with the condoms and then let her try to explain her way out of that. Then will show pics and text/emails. Based on her demeanor, I think she's blowing up inside right now. She knows something is coming, but don't know what. And some remorse is starting to kick in.
> 
> This forum has been extremely helpful and everyone's comments and suggestions has really helped me deal with this. I appreciate all of you and wish each of you a Happy New Year!
> 
> pilotranger


I'm not usually for this course of action, but considering your limited amount of 'real' evidence, I would consider informing the OMW first. If you confront your WW first and she goes into denial mode (and she more than likely will), she will then have time to alert the OM to jettison any and all evidence that he may have before his BW has a chance to recover it.

You could also even tell her that your WW confessed upon confrontation and he may feel backed into a corner enough to spill his guts to save his marriage.

However you do it, it needs to come down on both of them simultaneously, and swiftly, so they have no way or time to retreat and regroup.


----------



## karole

Look in coat pockets hanging in her closet.


----------



## pilotranger

Mr Right said:


> Pilot, does she use or have access to the computer your on? You also said that she uses a LapTop, do you know the Password as I would be installing a key logger pronto!!!


None of the above. She never uses my computer and her laptop is work issued and I don't have any way to access.


----------



## Mr Right

pilotranger said:


> None of the above. She never uses my computer and her laptop is work issued and I don't have any way to access.


So have you been deleting your browser history every time after using your computer?


----------



## Nucking Futs

karole said:


> Look in coat pockets hanging in her closet.


Don't forget inside pockets. Check inside shoes and boots, in boxes on the closet shelf, under stuff. I wouldn't bother too much with looking in places that would be difficult for her to get in and out quick, so odds are she's not moving furniture to hide it.


----------



## pilotranger

Mr Right said:


> So have you been deleting your browser history every time after using your computer?


Yes.


----------



## pilotranger

Squeakr said:


> Do you have photo sharing turned on on the iPhones and maybe she saw it in the photo roll and new she was busted, so she got rid of the evidence (or God forbid, used them)?


No, I don't use photoshare on my phone and our phones are not connected.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why he would have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now.


I hope that the pain that she has caused her child will jolt her out of her selfishness and get her to show LOTS of actions of remorse. If she is not affected by hurting her innocent child then she maybe a Zombie and there is no hope. However, from what you have written it seems that she is not a zombie and is starting to come to reality. She needs to be broken before she can get better and her seeing her injured child suffering may get her out of the fog.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> Sorry to say but I've been involved in several of these and gentleness is irrelevant. Trying to be gentle only seems to increase the BS's anxiety and perpetuates their denial. The best way it seems to me is to just rip off the bandaid in one tug. Anything less has just proven to be cruel and ineffective.


I've given this some thought. I see your point but it does not sit well with me. 

It seems to be you can do a few things.


Keep it a secret.
Tell the wife what has happened and offer proof. It's up to her whether she wants to see it.
Give the wife selected proof. Offer more if she wants to see it all.
Give her all the proof in a gentle way.
Give her all the proof in a way designed for maximum shock value, in order to blow up the affair and/or cause maximum distress to the OM.
I find the first and last options morally repugnant. 

Morally, I am sure I would make the information available to the betrayed spouse, but I am not sure it is my right to force her to listen or believe it. It is not my right, as a stranger, to put her through a significant amount of pain "for her own good", based on my belief systems. 

People approach this all differently. I hungered and dug hard for information. I would have asked for everything. But that comes at a price....pain, mind movies, etc. It's not for everyone.

PilotRanger, I guess the only thing I can suggest is, think about what you would want and let that guide your decisions. Keeping in mind, of course, that the same wild swings of emotion that are affecting everything else will affect this decision too.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why would he have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now.


IMO you can read two things from these,

That your son feels that in your situation, abusive wifes behavior, D is a valid option; and

By doing nothing he is learnig that is ok to be in an abusive relationship.

In a few words, he can see there is a problem and you are teaching him, by doing nothig since the abuse began, the wrong way to deal with it ( being a doormath)

He wil need IC once you decide how to deal with your situation.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Wazza said:


> bfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to say but I've been involved in several of these and gentleness is irrelevant. Trying to be gentle only seems to increase the BS's anxiety and perpetuates their denial. The best way it seems to me is to just rip off the bandaid in one tug. Anything less has just proven to be cruel and ineffective.
> 
> 
> 
> I've given this some thought. I see your point but it does not sit well with me.
> 
> It seems to be you can do a few things.
> 
> 
> Keep it a secret.
> Tell the wife what has happened and offer proof. It's up to her whether she wants to see it.
> Give the wife selected proof. Offer more if she wants to see it all.
> Give her all the proof in a gentle way.
> Give her all the proof in a way designed for maximum shock value, in order to blow up the affair and/or cause maximum distress to the OM.
> I find the first and last options morally repugnant.
> 
> Morally, I am sure I would make the information available to the betrayed spouse, but I am not sure it is my right to force her to listen or believe it. It is not my right, as a stranger, to put her through a significant amount of pain "for her own good", based on my belief systems.
> 
> People approach this all differently. I hungered and dug hard for information. I would have asked for everything. But that comes at a price....pain, mind movies, etc. It's not for everyone.
> 
> PilotRanger, I guess the only thing I can suggest is, think about what you would want and let that guide your decisions. Keeping in mind, of course, that the same wild swings of emotion that are affecting everything else will affect this decision too.
Click to expand...

There is another option, ask your pastor help.

Tell him to ask OMW for a word after next service and expose to her with him to give her support, she will need it. I believe he will be glad to help her. You could tell him everything you now about the affair and make a exposing strategy in order to avoid her family and yours more pain.

Of course if he refuse to help, or thinks is a bad idea, expose in your own way and move to other curch.


----------



## kidcanman

When do you plan on confronting her?


----------



## Chaparral

Don't hesitate to see your doctor for a little temporary help. Unfortunately they see this all the time. Also, find a counselor that can treat adultery and PTSD for yourself and a counselor for your kids as just suggested.

Good luck and prayers.


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> No matter. I'll start with the condoms and then let her try to explain her way out of that. Then will show pics and text/emails.


I think leading with the condoms is perfect but I wouldn’t be too quick with the follow up proof. 

I would get all my ducks in a row for divorce (finances, etc.) and file. Then tell her about the condoms and that you’re already in the process of divorcing her (or hand her the divorce papers). 

Don’t tell her that you know who the OM is. The only things you know about are the condoms and how $hitty she has been treating you (even your kid noticed). Nothing else. 

*Then sit back and watch like a spider while she entangles herself in a web of her own creation. *

If she presses you for a response just say: I know enough to divorce you. Just repeat that as your answer over and over.

She will come up with some BS story about the condoms. When her family finds out that you’re getting divorced, what will she tell them? That you’re crazy? That you’re making the condoms up? That it was only one time? 

When the OM learns that you're getting divorced he will go crazy wondering if you know it's him. That will torture him. 

After she swears up and down to everyone that her BS story is true then you can drop the bomb.:smthumbup:

If she ever finds out that you had absolute proof all along, just tell her that it was a test. A test to see if she would tell the truth and she failed. Or you can lie and tell her you found the texts later than you did.


----------



## pilotranger

3putt said:


> I'm not usually for this course of action, but considering your limited amount of 'real' evidence, I would consider informing the OMW first. If you confront your WW first and she goes into denial mode (and she more than likely will), she will then have time to alert the OM to jettison any and all evidence that he may have before his BW has a chance to recover it.
> 
> You could also even tell her that your WW confessed upon confrontation and he may feel backed into a corner enough to spill his guts to save his marriage.
> 
> However you do it, it needs to come down on both of them simultaneously, and swiftly, so they have no way or time to retreat and regroup.


I plan on telling OMW first during the day when OM is at work, then my WW that evening when kids are in bed. My only concern is OMW might blow her top and confront OM right after I expose, which will give him time to tell my WW. I'm still trying to decide which way is better - confront spouse first or expose to OMW first.


----------



## pilotranger

Wazza said:


> I've given this some thought. I see your point but it does not sit well with me.
> 
> It seems to be you can do a few things.
> 
> 
> Keep it a secret.
> Tell the wife what has happened and offer proof. It's up to her whether she wants to see it.
> Give the wife selected proof. Offer more if she wants to see it all.
> Give her all the proof in a gentle way.
> Give her all the proof in a way designed for maximum shock value, in order to blow up the affair and/or cause maximum distress to the OM.
> I find the first and last options morally repugnant.
> 
> Morally, I am sure I would make the information available to the betrayed spouse, but I am not sure it is my right to force her to listen or believe it. It is not my right, as a stranger, to put her through a significant amount of pain "for her own good", based on my belief systems.
> 
> People approach this all differently. I hungered and dug hard for information. I would have asked for everything. But that comes at a price....pain, mind movies, etc. It's not for everyone.
> 
> PilotRanger, I guess the only thing I can suggest is, think about what you would want and let that guide your decisions. Keeping in mind, of course, that the same wild swings of emotion that are affecting everything else will affect this decision too.



I'm in the belief that I don't want to cause any harm or pain to OMW from my direct actions. She has/will be in enough pain and suffering pretty soon. Yes, certain evidence would be pretty damning, but the real devastating part is the fact that they're having this affair and the severity of the evidence is just to confirm it. In a way, I feel I am just the messenger. Nothing more, nothing less. Just want to give her the facts and how she handles the facts and the severity of it will be dependent on her own personal strength and will.


----------



## Nucking Futs

pilotranger said:


> I plan on telling OMW first during the day when OM is at work, then my WW that evening when kids are in bed. My only concern is OMW might blow her top and confront OM right after I expose, which will give him time to tell my WW. I'm still trying to decide which way is better - confront spouse first or expose to OMW first.





Nucking Futs said:


> That's a load of crap. If he files, it's the conclusive proof that her world is tumbling down. If she's going to be R worthy getting served will be like a gigantic bucket of ice water in her face, it will snap her out of the fog like nothing else. *Nothing will hit her as hard as having a process server hand her surprise divorce papers, that's when the consequences become real. That's when the cold chills hit, the metallic taste in the mouth, the sick feeling in the pit of her stomach. Couple that with being thrown under the bus by the AP when his wife rips him a new one, family calling her to ask her how she could be so foolish, the church secretary calling to let her know the priest would like to meet with her, all while hearing nothing from her husband and the fog is gone right then.* If he's going to be able to R her reaction to this rapid series of blows will tell the tale. But if you spread this stuff out you'll give her time to settle down between each shot and you may not break her out of the fog.
> 
> As for the finances, if he's too low on money to use a lawyer he can always get the paperwork from the court house and fill it out and file it himself. In some states you can sit down with a paralegal and have the paperwork filled out for you for a small fee, then file it yourself. And if he does pay the lawyer a retainer and file then decide to R he can just notify the lawyer to retract the filing and refund the unused portion of the retainer. If he decides she's not worth R then he's ahead of the game.


Just sayin'.


----------



## the guy

I think you should expose to OMW 1st, let OM contact WW and let WW confront you, only after you go dark for a few hours.

There will be no need to worry about OM contacting WW....at the end of the day I think you are waiting for your wife to do the nonorable thing and come clean. It happens but she had a chance to do that when 1st confronted her.

I say wait on the sibling exposure after you finally confront WW....see how she handles the OMW exposure and the confrontation.


----------



## the guy

I never had a chance to confront a OMW cuz most Om's were mostly single and there were just to many to track down and my old lady was lucky enough to even remember some OM's names when doing the ONS thing.

But when I confronted I did go dark for the day and let my wife stew on what she has lost. That whole day she was a wreck. Not knowing if I was killing her current OM, my self of planning to kill her....was I ever coming back, were was I....just dealing with the unknown gave her a taste of her new reality.

Any way I'm 5 years into R and I think going dark after confronting is a good way to drive it home.

Actually my confrontation was short it wasn't much more then a hour if not less.

Presented the smoking gun, asked a few questions (mentioned earlier in prevous reply) walked out the door while Mrs. the guy cried her eye balls out in the bathroom.

Mrs. theguy know I fond the OM when I texted him on WW cell and that text was on the top of the pile of evidence. I text OM when WW was passed out

I think your WW needs to see how real this is by knowing that the A is busted. The other side of this A has been contacted and in your case you can contact OMW.

Again I think it hits really hard when the AP knows before the wayward.

Hell after the exposure do you really even need to show your evidence to WW? I think OMW will confront OM and OM will confront WW and then the both will be slapped with their new reality.


----------



## the guy

I think you will have a more effective confrontation if your WW approaches you with "how did you find out" versus you approaching her and her saying "I'm not cheating" over and over again.


----------



## Tobyboy

I think it's to soon to confront. Like others, there's also a very high chance there is a new OM!!! Funny how the condoms disappeared???? Question remains... Were they thrown away or used?
Any unaccounted time from the last time you saw them till they disappeared?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

You have been sitting an this sh! for a week (almost) ....take care of this crap and contact OMW.

It'll take you another couple of weeks to *maybe* find a new OM....hell at least a month to lawyer up for her to get served.

You have the smoking gun, you are still getting treated like sh!t!

I think expose, confront and lawyer up...in that order.

The nice thing about lawyering up and your old lady does show remorse and she R the marriage, those D paper are always sitting in the lawyers office waiting if they are needed.


----------



## arbitrator

I'd be greatly afraid that by first confronting the OM's W with the evidence that you're now holding, and by not confronting your WW first just by "staying dark," thereby allowing her to ultimately hear about the revelation from her BF, could greatly give her the needed incentives to try to have harm brought to you ~ more especially if she's a card-carrying "cake eater" who is fastidiously counting on riding you a while longer as her anointed "Plan B!"

I'd break the news to her first, but stay totally silent to her about your plans to reveal to her BF's W!

By the way, if you haven't yet consulted with a good family law attorney, now would be the ample time!


----------



## arbitrator

On second thought, I think that your gameplan is totally "appro pos!"


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> I plan on telling OMW first during the day when OM is at work, then my WW that evening when kids are in bed.


I think this is too kind to your wife and the OM. It’s like the cops catching a murderer and taking him straight to the electric chair the same day. It’s much worse spending some time on death row and then being executed. Give them some time hoping that you don't know everything and embarrassing themselves by lying to everyone.

i.e. Condom first then let them twist in the wind. Then the packet of evedence (or just photos of the OM nude and the condom) to the OMW. The photos are so bad that you don't even need the texts. 

If you don’t tell them about the texts they will lie their a$$ off even more. "No I never ever gave him a BJ." *You can trickle truth her with what you know.*



the guy said:


> I think you will have a more effective confrontation if your WW approaches you with "how did you find out" versus you approaching her and her saying "I'm not cheating" over and over again.


:iagree:

Let her find out first from the OM what evidence you have. If you want you could also have a second packet of evidence ready to show your wife.



Is adultery relevant in a divorce where you are? If so the classy way to get things out is name the OM in the divorce proceedings. Your lawyer can tell you if the texts and emails are admissible where you live.


----------



## jim123

pilotranger said:


> I plan on telling OMW first during the day when OM is at work, then my WW that evening when kids are in bed. My only concern is OMW might blow her top and confront OM right after I expose, which will give him time to tell my WW. I'm still trying to decide which way is better - confront spouse first or expose to OMW first.


There is no right nor wrong way. The important thing is to confront. I would confront the WW first. Get this done. Do it now. You have to start the next phase of your life.


----------



## Tobyboy

I would confront about the condoms first. See who she implicates first, original OM or if theres someone new...him!!
I would not even mention the OM or any other evidence. It would be hard to explain recent condoms in her briefcase if the affair with OM ended months ago. Also, I would confront somewhere that she could not easily walk away. Maybe take her for a ride out in the country and park somewhere for confrontation.


----------



## the guy

You can always soften the blow to OMW by handing her the Naked pic her WH sent and tell her your bigger and ask her if she wants to see.

I'm kidding of course....just throwing in some humor into a very painful event.

I have been here long enough to know that the OMW can go in so many directions.

Your plan to expose is solid. Once you ask her to tell her husband to stop phucking your wife, hand her the proof, your contact info and go on your way. The next move will be hers and like I said there is no certian reaction you can expect.


----------



## the guy

Tobyboy said:


> I would confront about the condoms first. See who she implicates first, original OM or if theres someone new...him!!
> I would not even mention the OM or any other evidence. It would be hard to explain recent condoms in her briefcase if the affair with OM ended months ago. Also, I would confront somewhere that she could not easily walk away. Maybe take her for a ride out in the country and park somewhere for confrontation.


She was holding the condoms for a friend.

And lets face it...it's very typical for a wayward to only admit what the betrayed knows.

At the end of the day your old lady is and has phucked around!

That's how I saw it in my case. In my case I had the smoking gun. It will only be *luck* if she come completely clean and tells you she has been screwing around for 13 years and this is Om # 20 and she doesn't want any of them and only wanted you and you were never around and you neglected me for years and I'm sick and tired of.........ops sorry started going off there


----------



## Chaparral

Your plan is best of these. Show the omw as little as possible to convince her it is a physical affair. You have to keep your powder dry by keeping your sources intact for the future no matter what you decide to do. I cant believe there is so much confusion on this issue. One way or another you will end up in some type of negotiation with her. The rest is on you. Wait for your wife to contact you after the possom let her know their adultery is no longer a secret but an anchor around their necks.

When she asks how you know, tell her its nobodies damn business who you get your information from. Its not a lie and it protects your meager sources. Also, tell her she can't trust people any more either.

The point is to let the news roll through them and rattle them. If she calls you soon after you tell his wife ignore her. She needs to simmer. You will be able to read her texts without having to respond except maybe to fire another shot across her bow like texting her "everybody knows" or get a lawyer.

Having her served takes forever and costs a ton and may just be a waste of money. I would spend that kind of money on a PI.


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> There is no right nor wrong way. The important thing is to confront. I would confront the WW first. Get this done. Do it now. You have to start the next phase of your life.


Never confront your spouse before the possom's wife. That gives the cheaters to get stories straight and gaslight his spouse. It happens all the time. They will convince her of what she wants to believe and often refuses to talk to you or look at the evidence.


----------



## Chaparral

the guy said:


> You have been sitting an this sh! for a week (almost) ....take care of this crap and contact OMW.
> 
> It'll take you another couple of weeks to *maybe* find a new OM....hell at least a month to lawyer up for her to get served.
> 
> You have the smoking gun, you are still getting treated like sh!t!
> 
> I think expose, confront and lawyer up...in that order.
> 
> The nice thing about lawyering up and your old lady does show remorse and she R the marriage, those D paper are always sitting in the lawyers office waiting if they are needed.


Having divorce papers to toss around is good. Its less expensive to download a divorce packet for your state or pick up a divorce packet at the county courthouse.


----------



## Chaparral

the guy said:


> She was holding the condoms for a friend.
> 
> And lets face it...it's very typical for a wayward to only admit what the betrayed knows.
> 
> At the end of the day your old lady is and has phucked around!
> 
> That's how I saw it in my case. In my case I had the smoking gun. It will only be *luck* if she come completely clean and tells you she has been screwing around for 13 years and this is Om # 20 and she doesn't want any of them and only wanted you and you were never around and you neglected me for years and I'm sick and tired of.........ops sorry started going off there


Have a box of condoms handy, tell her you noticed she ran out of condoms in her briefcase and you bought her some more.

If she denies the condoms just laugh at her.

The most important thing is keeping the upper hand, tell her nothing you know and believe nothing she says without independent verification. If you can't hold yourself together, get out quick. At this point, show nothing but strength and no mercy. Forgiveness, if it comes at all, comes much later from a position of strength.


----------



## jim123

Chaparral said:


> Never confront your spouse before the possom's wife. That gives the cheaters to get stories straight and gaslight his spouse. It happens all the time. They will convince her of what she wants to believe and often refuses to talk to you or look at the evidence.


Only if you allow it and stand up for yourself. For me the confrontation would have happened when I found the condoms.

She would have been out the door right then and there.

OP has more than enough. I would toss it on the table. Tell her I have an attorney. Get out now. I would call OM tell him my wife has told me everything and he has an hour to tell her if it will.

OP time to stand up for yourself. She can only lie if you let her. Take control. Be strong.


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> Only if you allow it and stand up for yourself. For me the confrontation would have happened when I found the condoms.
> 
> She would have been out the door right then and there.
> 
> OP has more than enough. I would toss it on the table. Tell her I have an attorney. Get out now. I would call OM tell him my wife has told me everything and he has an hour to tell her if it will.
> 
> OP time to stand up for yourself. She can only lie if you let her. Take control. Be strong.


How you confront depends on your goals after confrontation and what you need proof for.

There actually could be a weird reason for her to have them. One poster found his wife used them on her vibrator. Another poster's neighbor found his septic tank stopped up with condoms and he had been fixed though. Not much room for doubt there.


----------



## Tobyboy

Chaparral said:


> How you confront depends on your goals after confrontation and what you need proof for.
> 
> There actually could be a weird reason for her to have them. One poster found his wife used them on her vibrator. Another poster's neighbor found his septic tank stopped up with condoms and he had been fixed though. Not much room for doubt there.


True. But in this case, he has evidences already of one sexual affair that may have ended a few months ago. Remember, this is/was a 2 year affair!!


----------



## just got it 55

:iagree:


3putt said:


> I'm not usually for this course of action, but considering your limited amount of 'real' evidence, I would consider informing the OMW first. If you confront your WW first and she goes into denial mode (and she more than likely will), she will then have time to alert the OM to jettison any and all evidence that he may have before his BW has a chance to recover it.
> 
> You could also even tell her that your WW confessed upon confrontation and he may feel backed into a corner enough to spill his guts to save his marriage.
> 
> However you do it, it needs to come down on both of them simultaneously, and swiftly, so they have no way or time to retreat and regroup.


:iagree: IMO This is the best way to proceed

55


----------



## just got it 55

PR Wrote

"BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why would he have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now. "

PR I believe that was your perfect opportunity.

One that clearly shows the destruction she is causing to your family

This is the way I would open the discussion.

Then present your evidence after you gently inform OMW

55


----------



## jim123

Chaparral said:


> How you confront depends on your goals after confrontation and what you need proof for.
> 
> There actually could be a weird reason for her to have them. One poster found his wife used them on her vibrator. Another poster's neighbor found his septic tank stopped up with condoms and he had been fixed though. Not much room for doubt there.


Plus the emails and texts. Somedaydig found one hotel receipt and that was all he needed. OP has more than enough, I had nothing at all other than a feeling and I was right.

OP. Weak men need mounds of evidence. You know what is going on. Put a stop to it now. This not a criminal trial.


----------



## the guy

After the OM calls your WW and informs her that you "know"...starting the confrontation with " we need to sit down and talk about our son!"......get into how the boy sees the family unit falling apart and then finish with " are you still phucking around?"

What a curve ball.


----------



## Graywolf2

jim123 said:


> OP. Weak men need mounds of evidence. You know what is going on. Put a stop to it now. This not a criminal trial.


You already have overwhelming solid evidence. You have so much that your problem is how to play it. I prefer the cat playing with a mouse model over the sledge hammer model. It’s up to you.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jim123 said:


> Plus the emails and texts. Somedaydig found one hotel receipt and that was all he needed. OP has more than enough, I had nothing at all other than a feeling and I was right.
> 
> OP. Weak men need mounds of evidence. You know what is going on. Put a stop to it now. This not a criminal trial.


How do you not get this? _How you confront depends on your goals after confrontation and what you need proof for. _If you're going to divorce and R is off the table, you don't need anything. If you want a decent shot at R you need to snap her out of it, and a weak confront is unlikely to work for that.

Do you think those of us suggesting he suck it up until his ducks are fully aligned like it? Think we wouldn't prefer to tell him that he doesn't need more and just pull the trigger on it? OP is in the middle of it, he can't see the forest for the trees, and we're trying to guide him in the most effective way of approaching this. And the most effective way of approaching this is not to go off half c0cked.

That being said, he has more than enough evidence of the affair that may have ended in November. There are red flags that that affair did not actually end, or there is another affair in progress, but if R is off the table it doesn't really matter. Is R off the table? Frankly I don't recall if it is on this thread or not. But the fact is that while neither method of confronting will completely preclude R, the method you're advocating will give a much lower chance of R. If pilotranger can handle it why not do the confrontation in the way with the best upside either way? Why are you so impatient for this to happen that you're advocating for him to take the less effective route just because it's quicker?

That being said, it's on pilotranger. Doing it my way has a better chance of saving your marriage but you have to nut up and eat a sh!t sandwich while you align those ducks. If it's more than you can bear then cut loose when you're ready.


----------



## jim123

Nucking Futs said:


> How do you not get this? _How you confront depends on your goals after confrontation and what you need proof for. _If you're going to divorce and R is off the table, you don't need anything. If you want a decent shot at R you need to snap her out of it, and a weak confront is unlikely to work for that.
> 
> Do you think those of us suggesting he suck it up until his ducks are fully aligned like it? Think we wouldn't prefer to tell him that he doesn't need more and just pull the trigger on it? OP is in the middle of it, he can't see the forest for the trees, and we're trying to guide him in the most effective way of approaching this. And the most effective way of approaching this is not to go off half c0cked.
> 
> That being said, he has more than enough evidence of the affair that may have ended in November. There are red flags that that affair did not actually end, or there is another affair in progress, but if R is off the table it doesn't really matter. Is R off the table? Frankly I don't recall if it is on this thread or not. But the fact is that while neither method of confronting will completely preclude R, the method you're advocating will give a much lower chance of R. If pilotranger can handle it why not do the confrontation in the way with the best upside either way? Why are you so impatient for this to happen that you're advocating for him to take the less effective route just because it's quicker?
> 
> That being said, it's on pilotranger. Doing it my way has a better chance of saving your marriage but you have to nut up and eat a sh!t sandwich while you align those ducks. If it's more than you can bear then cut loose when you're ready.


You do know that Dig and Regret have one of the most successful R's on TAM. Dig's strong actions made that possible.

OP, time to put the big boy pants on. Take control of you life and make your future.


----------



## bfree

jim123 said:


> You do know that Dig and Regret have one of the most successful R's on TAM. Dig's strong actions made that possible.
> 
> OP, time to put the big boy pants on. Take control of you life and make your future.


I think the fact that Dig utterly destroyed the OM might have had something to do with it as well.


----------



## pilotranger

Tobyboy said:


> I think it's to soon to confront. Like others, there's also a very high chance there is a new OM!!! Funny how the condoms disappeared???? Question remains... Were they thrown away or used?
> Any unaccounted time from the last time you saw them till they disappeared?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, no unaccounted time since I last saw them and they disappeared. I really think she is feeling remorseful and it just got more interesting because my 15 year old had a night mare on Tue night/Wed morning. Asked him what the nightmare was about, he started crying and said "You and mom were divorcing." Asked him what would make him have such a nightmare. He said, "I've been thinking about how crappy she's been treating and the way she talks to you since your big argument since March." He's been noticing how crappy she treats me. Love that boy.


----------



## the guy

So does your old lady , that's why you make it a point why her actions are tearing the family unit apart.


----------



## pilotranger

just got it 55 said:


> PR Wrote
> 
> "BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why would he have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now. "
> 
> PR I believe that was your perfect opportunity.
> 
> One that clearly shows the destruction she is causing to your family
> 
> This is the way I would open the discussion.
> 
> Then present your evidence after you gently inform OMW
> 
> 55


Yeah, I've watched her demeanor since his nightmare talk, and she's been an emotional roller coaster. I could literally see her agonize inside and I think she even got emotional this AM on the way to church. I know I should have confronted already, but with the holidays and so many people in/out of the house, the timing is not right. Plus this will give an opportunity for her to fess up (which I doubt she will).

Cousins are at the house and lots of people around, so no place or time for me to confront her withhout distractions. Plus my plan is to expose to OMW first.


----------



## pilotranger

the guy said:


> After the OM calls your WW and informs her that you "know"...starting the confrontation with " we need to sit down and talk about our son!"......get into how the boy sees the family unit falling apart and then finish with " are you still phucking around?"
> 
> What a curve ball.


Here is my version: "You see how much our 15 year old son picked up by himself the last 9 months and how crappy you've been treating me and ignoring me?" So all of this makes sense to me now. Tell me how long you've been having an affair?

She denies.

So tell me why you have a pair of condoms in your briefcase.

She shows my her briefcase and says, What condoms?"

I take out my iphone and show her the picture I took of the condoms before she threw them away. 

It starts to snowball downhill from there.


:smthumbup:


----------



## jim123

bfree said:


> I think the fact that Dig utterly destroyed the OM might have had something to do with it as well.


That happened later. OP's wife knows she cheated or is cheating. 

He has enough to confront. If it becomes a debate he is wasting his time anyway. If she admits and is remorseful they have a chance.

I remember RDMU spent months collecting data and his WW confessed right away without it. 

Too many love the CSI stuff and the drama. I just want to OP to start to heal.


----------



## the guy

pilotranger said:


> Here is my version: "You see how much our 15 year old son picked up by himself the last 9 months and how crappy you've been treating me and ignoring me?" So all of this makes sense to me now. Tell me how long you've been having an affair?
> 
> She denies.
> 
> So tell me why you have a pair of condoms in your briefcase.
> 
> She shows my her briefcase and says, What condoms?"
> 
> I take out my iphone and show her the picture I took of the condoms before she threw them away.
> 
> It starts to snowball downhill from there.
> 
> 
> :smthumbup:


Keep in mind the OM may have already talked to WW so I suggest you work your plan and play off your WW reaction.

She may or may not deny....I pray she lets it all out after talking to the OM and realizes that her past and even current behavior is not exceptable.

In may case my old lady blow the top off when she went on with what she has been doing for the past 13 years.

The point is you never know how the wayward reacts. Typically denial is often the case. But with real remorse she may come *completely* clean.....and if that's the case be prepared to have your mind blown.


----------



## the guy

I have a feeling you want to have this long talk and just maybe you some what *hope* to have this awesome meaning full talk at the confrontation.....

It was my experience that after confrontation the the less said the better. I gave it a day for it to sink in before I went after my old lady. Granted I did ask a few questions and then left. 

In fact I handed the evidence to my old lady and walked away and made a drink, only to come back a few minutes later to start asking very few questions.

I just let it all sink in and stepped back for a few. Then me and the old lady really got into it maybe about 8 hours after the confrontation....typical crap though....blameshifting, gas lighting, NC text, and were we where going from here on out.


----------



## just got it 55

the guy said:


> After the OM calls your WW and informs her that you "know"...starting the confrontation with " we need to sit down and talk about our son!"......get into how the boy sees the family unit falling apart and then finish with " are you still phucking around?"
> 
> What a curve ball.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


Exactly my point

55


----------



## the guy

jim123 said:


> That happened later. OP's wife knows she cheated or is cheating.
> 
> He has enough to confront. If it becomes a debate he is wasting his time anyway. If she admits and is remorseful they have a chance.
> 
> I remember RDMU spent months collecting data and his WW confessed right away without it.
> 
> Too many love the CSI stuff and the drama. I just want to OP to start to heal.


:iagree:

OP is at a point were the next step is exposing the A to OMW, and moving on in dealing with his WW in what ever...or how ever she reacts.

Old AP....new AP....does it matter? his old lady is phucking around and OP wants to slap it our of her by exposing the A to the "last" OMW.

WW could have a few ONS between now and Nov.

At the end of the day OP will not share his wife and her behavior towards him will no longer be tolerated. after the confrontation it will be up to WW if she continues or repents.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Jim123
> He has enough to confront. If it becomes a debate he is wasting his time anyway. If she admits and is remorseful they have a chance.


Exactly Jim!
She seems to be on the edge of breaking and that will reveal a LOT!! I am thinking she may debate at first but will be remorseful in the end. In fact, I would not be surprised that she is remorseful rather quickly. *How can a mother see her child with a broken heart and not be remorseful?*

If she is not remorseful then there are still a lot of options for Pilotranger. Hope that is not the case but she will only be hurting herself and her family more by refusing to admit and be remorseful.

Lets pray that this woman breaks, is remorseful, and shows by ACTIONS that she is going to help save the family from more terrible pains.


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> That happened later. OP's wife knows she cheated or is cheating.
> 
> He has enough to confront. If it becomes a debate he is wasting his time anyway. If she admits and is remorseful they have a chance.
> 
> I remember RDMU spent months collecting data and his WW confessed right away without it.
> 
> Too many love the CSI stuff and the drama. I just want to OP to start to heal.


Rdmu had a chance to stop it in its tracks but lives in a fault state
And wanted undeniable proof which worked. On a personal, psychological level it was an epic fail that he was warned in advance about. He also admitted as much.


----------



## larry.gray

Just do not telegraph to your wife that you intend to talk to the OM's wife. It gives the OM a chance to paint you as crazy and could thwart your ability to talk to the OMW.


----------



## sidney2718

pilotranger said:


> BTW - today, our 15 year old said he had a nightmare last night. Asked him what it was about and he said that it was because my WW and I divorced. I asked him why would he have such a nightmare, he said because he thought about how crappy she has been treating me since our big blow up argument in March and how bad she talks to me and treat me. I was blown away when I heard that! And he told my WW that also, so I'm sure the wheels are turning and burning in her mind right now. :smthumbup:


This is a bit off the main topic, but I think it is worth saying. Here's a prime example of a kid knowing a lot more about what is going on then the parents think. It is also an example of how kids notice how we treat our spouses.


----------



## sidney2718

Chaparral said:


> Your plan is best of these. Show the omw as little as possible to convince her it is a physical affair. You have to keep your powder dry by keeping your sources intact for the future no matter what you decide to do. I cant believe there is so much confusion on this issue. One way or another you will end up in some type of negotiation with her. The rest is on you. Wait for your wife to contact you after the possom let her know their adultery is no longer a secret but an anchor around their necks.
> 
> When she asks how you know, tell her its nobodies damn business who you get your information from. Its not a lie and it protects your meager sources. Also, tell her she can't trust people any more either.
> 
> The point is to let the news roll through them and rattle them. If she calls you soon after you tell his wife ignore her. She needs to simmer. You will be able to read her texts without having to respond except maybe to fire another shot across her bow like texting her "everybody knows" or get a lawyer.
> 
> Having her served takes forever and costs a ton and may just be a waste of money. I would spend that kind of money on a PI.


I think this is a good plan, but there is one problem with it. It seems to me to be quite likely that the OMW will NOT confront the OM right away. She may decide to snoop around a bit on her own first.

So PR's wife won't get that phone call from OM and will not react at all.

So I would modify the above plan. In the case that the WW does not react I'd expose the condom info to her the next day.


----------



## jim123

the guy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> OP is at a point were the next step is exposing the A to OMW, and moving on in dealing with his WW in what ever...or how ever she reacts.
> 
> Old AP....new AP....does it matter? his old lady is phucking around and OP wants to slap it our of her by exposing the A to the "last" OMW.
> 
> WW could have a few ONS between now and Nov.
> 
> At the end of the day OP will not share his wife and her behavior towards him will no longer be tolerated. after the confrontation it will be up to WW if she continues or repents.


I would take the approach Dig did. Confront WW first. Your smoking gun is the nude photos. I would lead with them following by the emails and texts then the condoms.

Depending on how it goes. Like Dig I would call OM and tell him my WW confessed to everything. He has one hour to confess to his BW.

If he does not do this I will expose to everyone including the photos, texts and emails. If I ever see him again at mass, I will give everything to the pastor. I will name you in the D and introduce the all into public record. It is your call.


----------



## sidney2718

Chaparral said:


> Never confront your spouse before the possom's wife. That gives the cheaters to get stories straight and gaslight his spouse. It happens all the time. They will convince her of what she wants to believe and often refuses to talk to you or look at the evidence.


All of this really depends on what PR wants to do. That is the most important thing. I think PR wants to see his wife's reaction. It doesn't matter if she and the OM have planned something. If she doesn't admit to the photos and anything else that PR knows WITHOUT his prompting, that tells him something. If she even mostly comes clean, that tells him something else.

Either way, now he can make up his mind about what to do. We need to remember that this is not about dumping sh!t on the WW, it is about the possibility of saving the marriage.


----------



## the guy

In my case the more sh1t I dumped on my old lady the more reality she had to face. I believed it save our marriage. She no longer had the option to keep me around and phuck other guys at the same time.

Her 2 lives collided in a big way....lets just say two atoms collided and it was time to clean up years of unhealthy behaviors.


----------



## jim123

the guy said:


> After the OM calls your WW and informs her that you "know"...starting the confrontation with " we need to sit down and talk about our son!"......get into how the boy sees the family unit falling apart and then finish with " are you still phucking around?"
> 
> What a curve ball.


This is your M and your life. Time for the fastball. Stand up for yourself and your M. 

This will tell her that you will not leave the M no matter what because it impacts the kids. Why stop cheating, why be remorseful. You are weak and deserved to be cheated on.

Do not give her the power nor control. Do not hide behind your son. I sure the dog will be impacted too. Have some self respect.


----------



## jim123

Chaparral said:


> Never confront your spouse before the possom's wife. That gives the cheaters to get stories straight and gaslight his spouse. It happens all the time. They will convince her of what she wants to believe and often refuses to talk to you or look at the evidence.



OP,

This can be true. However, the OM can give your WW a heads up and get the stories straight. What is more important to you. Is it sticking it to OM and working on your M.

The most important conversation is with your WW. Your M needs to be first. You need to be first. Too many focus on getting OM.


----------



## the guy

Sure it's sticking it to OM *and* it puts a lot of inconvienence on the affair.....the A isn't nearly as comfortable to continue when it's exposed.

Once your old lady stops phucking around then you can work on the marriage.

If she still goes after OM/s, working on the marriage won't mean a dam thing!


----------



## the guy

jim123 said:


> This is your M and your life. Time for the fastball. Stand up for yourself and your M.
> 
> This will tell her that you will not leave the M no matter what because it impacts the kids. Why stop cheating, why be remorseful. You are weak and deserved to be cheated on.
> 
> Do not give her the power nor control. Do not hide behind your son. I sure the dog will be impacted too. Have some self respect.


Good point.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is if a betrayed doesn't want to share the wayward and wayward still wants to cheat then its the waywards own choice to continue to cheat that breaks up the family.

Granted my wording may be backassward but a point needs to be made that WW is the one tearing up the marriage. If you think about it WW would say the same sh1t if the shoe was on the other foot.


----------



## jim123

the guy said:


> Sure it's sticking it to OM *and* it puts a lot of inconvienence on the affair.....the A isn't nearly as comfortable to continue when it's exposed.
> 
> Once your old lady stops phucking around then you can work on the marriage.
> 
> If she still goes after OM/s, working on the marriage won't mean a dam thing!


In most cases the OM can be anyone. The issue is within the WW.


----------



## weightlifter

jim123 said:


> That happened later. OP's wife knows she cheated or is cheating.
> 
> He has enough to confront. If it becomes a debate he is wasting his time anyway. If she admits and is remorseful they have a chance.
> 
> I remember RDMU spent months collecting data and his WW confessed right away without it.
> 
> Too many love the CSI stuff and the drama. I just want to OP to start to heal.


Er not quite. She broke because he had enough evidence she knew it was hopeless.

Confront #2 she was going to lie again, but he had his evidence.

That being said. This op has enough.


----------



## the guy

You are correct so I'm going to make my old ladies affair as inconveinent and as uncomfortable as possible...thats just how I rolled.

I don't care about the OM's they were all POS but if I could get one to back off cuz I'll phuck him up...well that one less guy i have to phuck up.

At the end of the day is my old lady going keep phucking around if i phuck up all her boy friends....maybe not but I'll have fun kicking some @ss.

Any way one of many points in exposing the A to OMW first is not dealing with all her bull crap lying. Another thing it prevent showing your sources to your old lady....I mean pretty dam clear you know whats going on when you expose the affair to OMW.


----------



## just got it 55

weightlifter said:


> Er not quite. She broke because he had enough evidence she knew it was hopeless.
> 
> Confront #2 she was going to lie again, but he had his evidence.
> 
> That being said. This op has enough.


With that being the case I believe it is critical to confront as soon as PR can while his WW is emotionally weakened due to their son's nightmare comment.

She is more likely to break with this guilt weighing heavily on her conscience.

Some / most WW hide behind their pride for a long time until they start to crack under the "this sh!t is getting too real"stage.

PR act now inform OMW asap then confront.

55


----------



## the guy

Back in the good old day you could just kick OM @ss and that was pretty clear that the husband knew his old lady was screwing around.

A guy didn't have show a bunch of text and sent pics....his confrontation was with OM for phucking his wife.

Hey all for addressing the WW but it won't mean sh1t if the Om keeps sniffing around.

IDK maybe I'm old school.


----------



## jim123

weightlifter said:


> Er not quite. She broke because he had enough evidence she knew it was hopeless.
> 
> Confront #2 she was going to lie again, but he had his evidence.
> 
> That being said. This op has enough.


He had enough long before. He wanted far more. I understand why.


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> OP,
> 
> This can be true. However, the OM can give your WW a heads up and get the stories straight. What is more important to you. Is it sticking it to OM and working on your M.
> 
> The most important conversation is with your WW. Your M needs to be first. You need to be first. Too many focus on getting OM.


This isn't about getting the other man. Its how to break up an affair with the possom's wife being the ally in the enemy camp and putting the screwz to his ass and keeping him busy trying to save his family. 

Pilot has all he needs against his wife . There is a question about if and when the affair stopped.


----------



## jim123

Chaparral said:


> This isn't about getting the other man. Its how to break up an affair with the possom's wife being the ally in the enemy camp and putting the screwz to his ass and keeping him busy trying to save his family.
> 
> Pilot has all he needs against his wife . There is a question about if and when the affair stopped.


I have no issue with disclosure, however, confront your WW first. Do not give her a heads up on the confrontation by OM letting her know. She will have her ducks in a row making the confrontation useless.


----------



## lordmayhem

One of the main tactics for exposing the affair to the OMW/OWH is to never, ever, inform the WS that you are going to expose the affair. Ever. 

If you do, then the WS will warn the OM/OW, and they will have a chance to spin the story to their BS. They will say a crazy husband/wife is trying to lie and ruin their marriage and not to listen to them. And the OM/OW will also be on guard to try and intercept any messages from you. 

When you expose, you have to do it without any warning and with undeniable, factual proof because the OMW/OWH may also be in a state of denial. 

I remember a thread here where the BS drove up to the OM's house and spoke to the OMW personally to expose the affair.


----------



## lordmayhem

the guy said:


> Back in the good old day you could just kick OM @ss and that was pretty clear that the husband knew his old lady was screwing around.
> 
> A guy didn't have show a bunch of text and sent pics....his confrontation was with OM for phucking his wife.
> 
> Hey all for addressing the WW but it won't mean sh1t if the Om keeps sniffing around.
> 
> IDK maybe I'm old school.


Nowadays, OM calls the police to report an assault. How things have changed. I have to bite my tongue in those instances because it happens all the time.


----------



## 3putt

jim123 said:


> I have no issue with disclosure, however, confront your WW first. Do not give her a heads up on the confrontation by OM letting her know. She will have her ducks in a row making the confrontation useless.


I disagree. The object is to not let the OM get *his* ducks in a row by giving her a chance to warn him and give him time to delete proof. I'm one of the few that thinks his proof is a little shaky, although incriminating to a degree and would take some serious explaining. 

I still say disclose to the OMW first, spell out to her what to look for and where, and then immediately after, confront his wife. Their eggs will be too scrambled at that point to go into damage control.

That's how I would do it.


----------



## lordmayhem

I think that numerous pics showing the OM's face in sexual acts with WW is pretty firm evidence, not to mention all the texts describing their hook ups. I would say that pilotranger is GO for exposure. :smthumbup:


----------



## Pepper123

I was the youngest of 4.... my mom wanted to leave my dad when I was 4yo, their divorce was final the month after I graduated HS. They sold the family home I grew up in, so I moved 3k miles away. Hard to believe I've had a hard time recognizing a positive relationship, huh? But the years, and years of counseling are helping.


----------



## 3putt

lordmayhem said:


> I think that numerous pics showing the OM's face in sexual acts with WW is pretty firm evidence, not to mention all the texts describing their hook ups. I would say that pilotranger is GO for exposure. :smthumbup:


Say what? I recall only an exchange of pics...nothing more.

Did I miss something?


----------



## lordmayhem

3putt said:


> Say what? I recall only an exchange of pics...nothing more.
> 
> Did I miss something?


I am mistaken,



pilotranger said:


> I would not show the OMW the condoms as proof. Would show naked pics of OM that he sent to my wife, with his cell number as the sender. How's that for a smoking gun?


Just the naked pics he sent of himself that they exchanged. However combined with the text describing their hook ups is pretty solid. I think they might be able to say it was fantasy and never really happened, but I don't think a reasonable person would believe that.

And that's more than what many BS's have.


----------



## 3putt

lordmayhem said:


> I am mistaken,
> 
> 
> 
> Just the naked pics he sent of himself that they exchanged. However combined with the text describing their hook ups is pretty solid. I think they might be able to say it was fantasy and never really happened, but I don't think a reasonable person would believe that.
> 
> And that's more than what many BS's have.


It's plenty enough to expose, but it's still not a smoking gun of actual adultery. That's why I keep saying do it all at once on both sides, OMW first and immediately followed by his WW, and if it's there, it will turn up. Men have a way of cracking when they see their lives going around the bowl and down the hole.

Oh, there's plenty enough there to send me over the edge, but I would want to know, without a doubt, the full extent of the situation, especially if I had any ideas about trying to recover this. 

I'm just suggesting the best possible way, the way I see it anyway, to get that.

Hell, it's his call anyway.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The omw may already know. That couldbe why they broke up in November.


----------



## pilotranger

lordmayhem said:


> I am mistaken,
> 
> 
> 
> Just the naked pics he sent of himself that they exchanged. However combined with the text describing their hook ups is pretty solid. I think they might be able to say it was fantasy and never really happened, but I don't think a reasonable person would believe that.
> 
> And that's more than what many BS's have.


Naked selfies of him sent to her, naked selfies of her sent to him, texts to one another saying "can't wait till we meet on Hookie Friday". Also texts saying, we need to get a room, etc.....


----------



## 3putt

pilotranger said:


> Naked selfies of him sent to her, naked selfies of her sent to him, texts to one another saying "can't wait till we meet on Hookie Friday". Also texts saying, we need to get a room, etc.....


As it would seem there was no actual physical contact involved (at least to your satisfaction), and all the dates match up, then what the hell are you waiting on? 

It won't get easier as time passes. We can assure you of that.


----------



## convert

if no one has mention it, It might be a good idea to have a VAR on you at least when you confront you wife.

Also this sadness she has been feeling might because she is missing OM. Still in the "FOG" (I hate that term but)


----------



## carmen ohio

pilotranger said:


> Here is my version: "You see how much our 15 year old son picked up by himself the last 9 months and how crappy you've been treating me and ignoring me?" So all of this makes sense to me now. Tell me how long you've been having an affair?
> 
> She denies.
> 
> So tell me why you have a pair of condoms in your briefcase.
> 
> She shows my her briefcase and says, What condoms?"
> 
> I take out my iphone and show her the picture I took of the condoms before she threw them away.
> 
> It starts to snowball downhill from there.
> 
> 
> :smthumbup:


pilotranger,

This post is so 'beta' I hardly no where to begin to critique it.

First, don't mention your children -- it makes you look weak. Second, don't complain about the way she has been treating you -- complaining is for losers. Third, don't ask her if she is cheating, you know she is. Fourth, don't play games with the proof of her infidelity, it makes you look petty.

But what's really lame about this hypothetical conversation is what isn't said. What you say to her after you accuse her of cheating is what will go a long way in determining whether your marriage survives or not. Have you thought about this?

You could indicate your desire to reconcile but it is generally a mistake for the BS to be the first to seek reconciliation. You could mention divorce but I wouldn't do this unless you are really prepared to divorce her if she doesn't break down and beg you for a second chance. I doubt very much she will do this and, in any event, I don't sense that you are yet prepared to divorce her if she doesn't.

This is what you should be thinking about and the kind of conversation you should be rehearsing.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

This delaying business is really starting to smell like rug sweeping. What are you so afraid of PR? Another man had his **** in your wife. Are you angry or not?


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> I have no issue with disclosure, however, confront your WW first. Do not give her a heads up on the confrontation by OM letting her know. She will have her ducks in a row making the confrontation useless.


It doesn't matter what she does with her ducks. He has all the evidence he needs. She will either beg for forgiveness or tell him its divorce. She may waver but that is the same as ready to end the marriage. There have been thousands of confrontations here. There are very few scripts.


----------



## arbitrator

"TheGuy" is totally correct regarding the good ol' days! 

Today, he could still have the BH chase him down and play magician for him by quickly turning his ass into a rather nice looking hat for him. But despite him having gotten his most justified and deserving ass-whipping, he would just likely crawl on down to the local police stationhouse and swear out a complaint against this lecherous H for defending the family's honor!

But in that long-ago era, if some POSOM was summarily caught sniffing after a married woman in the community ~ more especially one with kids, not only could he count on the prospects of receiving a sound ass-whipping by her H, but when the cops finally got there to scrape up what little of him was left behind, they would gleefully haul him on down to the county pokee, taking special care to continue beating the crap out of him, all while taking several "long-cuts" back to the station, merely to lengthen the trip as well as his misery!


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> Here is my version: "You see how much our 15 year old son picked up by himself the last 9 months and how crappy you've been treating me and ignoring me?" So all of this makes sense to me now. Tell me how long you've been having an affair?
> 
> She denies.
> 
> So tell me why you have a pair of condoms in your briefcase.
> 
> She shows my her briefcase and says, What condoms?"
> 
> I take out my iphone and show her the picture I took of the condoms before she threw them away.
> 
> It starts to snowball downhill from there.


Perfection :smthumbup:

But then shut up and see what she does. As I said before it would be informative to see how much she lies. 

*Once you confront your wife she will be in damage control. The more information you give her the better she can control the damage.*

Tell her that you have already filed for divorce and she will be forced to tell the same lies to her family to explain what's going on. Just say over and over that the way she has been treating you by itself is enough reason to divorce. If you add the condoms to that it’s a no brainer. Don't reveal any of your other proof for a few days and see what happens.

My understanding is that you two haven’t had sex for over a year. When discussing the affair with your wife and others I would use the phrase: _*“She has been faithful to the OM for over a year.”*_ _(This is not admitting that you know how long the affair has lasted. The time frame comes from how long you two haven’t had sex.)_ That is a pithy way of expressing her priorities and what you’ve put up with.


----------



## pilotranger

carmen ohio said:


> pilotranger,
> 
> This post is so 'beta' I hardly no where to begin to critique it.
> 
> First, don't mention your children -- it makes you look weak. Second, don't complain about the way she has been treating you -- complaining is for losers. Third, don't ask her if she is cheating, you know she is. Fourth, don't play games with the proof of her infidelity, it makes you look petty.
> 
> But what's really lame about this hypothetical conversation is what isn't said. What you say to her after you accuse her of cheating is what will go a long way in determining whether your marriage survives or not. Have you thought about this?
> 
> You could indicate your desire to reconcile but it is generally a mistake for the BS to be the first to seek reconciliation. You could mention divorce but I wouldn't do this unless you are really prepared to divorce her if she doesn't break down and beg you for a second chance. I doubt very much she will do this and, in any event, I don't sense that you are yet prepared to divorce her if she doesn't.
> 
> This is what you should be thinking about and the kind of conversation you should be rehearsing.


I'm going to be tight lipped about my intentions. Will confront her about why she has condoms in briefcase (to see if she admits or plays dumb/denies), then show her the pics of the condoms.


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> carmen ohio said:
> 
> 
> 
> pilotranger,
> 
> This post is so 'beta' I hardly no where to begin to critique it.
> 
> First, don't mention your children -- it makes you look weak. Second, don't complain about the way she has been treating you -- complaining is for losers. Third, don't ask her if she is cheating, you know she is. Fourth, don't play games with the proof of her infidelity, it makes you look petty.
> 
> But what's really lame about this hypothetical conversation is what isn't said. What you say to her after you accuse her of cheating is what will go a long way in determining whether your marriage survives or not. Have you thought about this?
> 
> You could indicate your desire to reconcile but it is generally a mistake for the BS to be the first to seek reconciliation. You could mention divorce but I wouldn't do this unless you are really prepared to divorce her if she doesn't break down and beg you for a second chance. I doubt very much she will do this and, in any event, I don't sense that you are yet prepared to divorce her if she doesn't.
> 
> This is what you should be thinking about and the kind of conversation you should be rehearsing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be tight lipped about my intentions. Will confront her about why she has condoms in briefcase (to see if she admits or plays dumb/denies), then show her the pics of the condoms.
Click to expand...

And after that? Are you going to expose to OMW next day?

IMO the inercy of your sons nightmare will be gone soon, confront ASAP.

Good luck


----------



## Chaparral

I would be furious at this point. I would set up a fake email, and email their pictures back to them and tell them I found them on a gay website and a milf porn site. I would ask them if they would like to meet up and sign them "A Local Admirer."


----------



## farsidejunky

Chaparral said:


> I would be furious at this point. I would set up a fake email, and email their pictures back to them and tell them I found them on a gay website and a milf porn site. I would ask them if they would like to meet up and sign them "A Local Admirer."


Remind me to stay on your good side, Chap...

:rofl:


----------



## DadOfFour

arbitrator said:


> "TheGuy" is totally correct regarding the good ol' days!
> 
> Today, he could still have the BH chase him down and play magician for him by quickly turning his ass into a rather nice looking hat for him. But despite him having gotten his most justified and deserving ass-whipping, he would just likely crawl on down to the local police stationhouse and swear out a complaint against this lecherous H for defending the family's honor!
> 
> But in that long-ago era, if some POSOM was summarily caught sniffing after a married woman in the community ~ more especially one with kids, not only could he count on the prospects of receiving a sound ass-whipping by her H, but when the cops finally got there to scrape up what little of him was left behind, they would gleefully haul him on down to the county pokee, taking special care to continue beating the crap out of him, all while taking several "long-cuts" back to the station, merely to lengthen the trip as well as his misery!


Ha ha, Like!!! 

Actually No, LOVE!!!


----------



## DadOfFour

pilotranger said:


> I'm going to be tight lipped about my intentions. Will confront her about why she has condoms in briefcase (to see if she admits or plays dumb/denies), then show her the pics of the condoms.


Dude, I can tell you how this is going to go, of course she will deny it and make up some BS excuse. 

Why beat around the bush, go the full blown route and just hit her with it.

You can start it off by asking her about the condoms and wait for the excuse, but I wouldn't stop there, it just gives her time to think up some BS excuse for the rest of it. 

Start off hitting her with the Condoms, then ask her why she's been f&@king POS while still married to you, FOR 2 F&@CKING YEARS. Smash her with everything you have. If you really want to smash her, you could do it just as you are leaving for church and watch her try to keep her composure while your there. 

You need to do it and do it soon, if your waiting for the right, well let me tell you that will never come.


----------



## chaos

Regarding the condoms, don't be surprised if she tells you that they don't belong to her and that she bought them for a female friend of hers. So I would suggest that you start with other evidence and later bring up the condoms in her briefcase. By that time she won't be able to easily counteract you with a bull$h!t story.


----------



## lordmayhem

pilotranger said:


> I'm going to be tight lipped about my intentions. Will confront her about why she has condoms in briefcase (to see if she admits or plays dumb/denies), then show her the pics of the condoms.


Can she say that she bought them for you? 

With that said, most of the affair sex we see here is unprotected and results in a creampie.


----------



## lordmayhem

chaos said:


> Regarding the condoms, don't be surprised if she tells you that they don't belong to her and that she bought them for a female friend of hers. So I would suggest that you start with other evidence and later bring up the condoms in her briefcase. By that time she won't be able to easily counteract you with a bull$h!t story.


:iagree:

I had something similar in my first marriage. I actually found the love letter she was writing for the OM. She actually had the nerve to tell me that she was writing it for her friend to the OM. :rofl:


----------



## Suspecting2014

IMO, if you confront partially and then you give her time apart, like confronting sat night and then exposing monday morning, she will be able to contact OM, erase her phone, etc.

Did you ever considered that maybe there are no more emails because his wife became suspicious and they moved to other communication ways?

Other possibility is that his wife already knows and has kept you in the dark to avoid shame and try to save her marriage.

Did you ever consider that some of your close friends have known for a while or since the begining?

Ibelive that by partially exposing you are trying to save your marriage but IMO this is not the moment to make that call as you will never know if she is willing or you be able to R until a full exposure take place.

Expose big time ASAP


----------



## Suspecting2014

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I had something similar in my first marriage. I actually found the love letter she was writing for the OM. She actually had the nerve to tell me that she was writing it for her friend to the OM. :rofl:


Of course she will lie, she will be fully into damage control and preservation mode.

It doesn't mean that she will never regret the affair but getting caught.


----------



## DadOfFour

So what's the plan Pilot, is it D Day today?


----------



## Chaparral

I think he had planned to do it yesterday. He said he wanted to do it when om was at work.


----------



## DadOfFour

Chaparral said:


> I think he had planned to do it yesterday. He said he wanted to do it when om was at work.


Fingers crossed it all went well as can be expected for him (and he comes back and gives us an update, SOON)!!!


----------



## jim123

He was on TAM about 4 hours ago but did not post.


----------



## arbitrator

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I had something similar in my first marriage. I actually found the love letter she was writing for the OM. She actually had the nerve to tell me that she was writing it for her friend to the OM. :rofl:


*All that I can really tell you is that if some poor ol' chump being clandestinedly cheated on by their spouse, would actually listen to the "heartfelt" verbal logic that a great majority of WS purport as being absolutely truthful, it would just be "a perfect world!" At least in their eyes!

And as a former BS, I'm just as guilty! Not so much from listening to some lying, flippant excuse rolling off the lips of my rich, skanky XW ~ because there was none! But moreso from not picking up on the signs that I was being cheated on in the first place, because I was so damned blindly in love with her!

Either she was already a total master of plying the trade of spreading her legs for her other men behind closed hotel doors, most likely from prior experience; or I was just an overtrusting lout, unknowingly standing so very patiently in line at the "BS Take-a-Number Machine," proudly holding onto ticket No. 1.

Thank God, that in time, He gives the vast majority of us the gift of common sense to help us separate fact from fiction ~ more especially when we're having our shoes prolifically pissed on, and summarily told that it's only emenating from a spring shower!*


----------



## lordmayhem

jim123 said:


> He was on TAM about 4 hours ago but did not post.


Well, I hope it doesn't turn out like RDMU.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lordmayhem said:


> Well, I hope it doesn't turn out like RDMU.


Or yessongs.


----------



## DadOfFour

lordmayhem said:


> Well, I hope it doesn't turn out like RDMU.





Nucking Futs said:


> Or yessongs.


What happened with them, can you give me the outline of the story?


----------



## Deedee109

Never stay with a cheater. You will never trust them again and the affair is not your fault. They will make you believe that you were partially responsible. That's BS. get out, move on and be happy. It take guts but is well worth the effort. Read CHUMP LADY. the best website ever. good luck


----------



## lordmayhem

ILoveMyWife&Kids said:


> What happened with them, can you give me the outline of the story?


Both of them had a plan, had all the evidence ready for the confrontation with their WW. Then on the day of the confrontation, both were never heard from again. Or in one case, the BS swept it under the rug. Neither of them (Yessongs72, RDMU) posted again.


----------



## Q tip

Put OM up on Cheaterville.com with all the evidence you have. Use their email facility to send messages out to his world, boss, HR department. Everywhere. Even the newspaper. And copy your W.

Man up.


----------



## GusPolinski

lordmayhem said:


> Both of them had a plan, had all the evidence ready for the confrontation with their WW. Then on the day of the confrontation, both were never heard from again. Or in one case, the BS swept it under the rug. Neither of them (Yessongs72, RDMU) posted again.


I thought that RDMU provided a couple of updates post-confrontation but then deleted his thread...?

Either way, I'm not sure if you saw it or not, but weightlifter posted a thread re: RDMU a while back. They've been in at least semi-regular contact over the course of his reconciliation, and WL used the thread to provide an update w/ RDMU's blessing.


----------



## happy as a clam

lordmayhem said:


> Then on the day of the confrontation, *both were never heard from again.*


Not to make light of their situations, but this comment made me smile. Almost sounds like some kind of alien abduction...


----------



## G.J.

I just hope his 15 year old child is ok, its bad enough for a BS but for the children god knows what it does to them

I was lucky and had/have loving parents


----------



## lordmayhem

GusPolinski said:


> I thought that RDMU provided a couple of updates post-confrontation but then deleted his thread...?
> 
> Either way, I'm not sure if you saw it or not, but weightlifter posted a thread re: RDMU a while back. They've been in at least semi-regular contact over the course of his reconciliation, and WL used the thread to provide an update w/ RDMU's blessing.


True, either way, it was a bust, a complete failure/rugsweep. The fact that he deleted his thread and only provided updates through a 3rd party (WL), and never posted again in the forum indicates a full on rugsweep (kept saying Boob was such a predator/player, yet never exposed him, so Bob continues to prey on others, and that WW was just merely a victim of this master predator ). And the final updates of RDMU merely copying Bob's moves in bed. :slap:


----------



## DadOfFour

Well I hope Pilots okay and everything went alright, you get a little worried that they could have done something stupid!!!


----------



## pilotranger

ILoveMyWife&Kids said:


> Well I hope Pilots okay and everything went alright, you get a little worried that they could have done something stupid!!!


Hello all,

thanks for the kind words and I'm fine. Didn't do anything stupid. Confronted her last Friday, she did everything that all of ya'll mentioned - deny, backtrack, didn't give much answers, blame shifting, etc.

I was pretty stealth. Had grandma take the kids to lunch so we'd be alone. Asked her how long she's been having an affair. She denied big time and seemed annoyed. She thought I was just fishing and playing games.

Then asked her why she had condoms in briefcase and she tried to make excuse it helps her put on tampons easier (never heard that one before). Then asked her it's used to screw the bastard isn't it? Wouldn't answer or commit to answer. So I pulled out the emails, texts, selfies, etc. She seemed irritated that I hacked into her email account, but I stopped her and let both barrels go (figuratively guys, I'm not a violent man). My wife is not a cryer, and I didn't expect her to cry. She didn't, but I could just see she was traumatized inside and shameful feeling. I felt such a sense of relief when I let both barrels out.

You could see her wither and was defenseless the whole time. I felt like Perry Mason with all the facts and detailed evidence I had in hand. It was kind of a blur to me though because I pretty much let it loose and once I was done, walked away. She was pretty shaken after that. 

I'm out and appreciate everyone's help and guidance.
pilotranger


----------



## old red

i am very sorry that this happened to you, but you did very well.
take care.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Hello all,
> 
> thanks for the kind words and I'm fine. Didn't do anything stupid. Confronted her last Friday, she did everything that all of ya'll mentioned - deny, backtrack, didn't give much answers, blame shifting, etc.
> 
> I was pretty stealth. Had grandma take the kids to lunch so we'd be alone. Asked her how long she's been having an affair. She denied big time and seemed annoyed. She thought I was just fishing and playing games.
> 
> Then asked her why she had condoms in briefcase and she tried to make excuse it helps her put on tampons easier (never heard that one before). Then asked her it's used to screw the bastard isn't it? Wouldn't answer or commit to answer. So I pulled out the emails, texts, selfies, etc. She seemed irritated that I hacked into her email account, but I stopped her and let both barrels go (figuratively guys, I'm not a violent man). My wife is not a cryer, and I didn't expect her to cry. She didn't, but I could just see she was traumatized inside and shameful feeling. I felt such a sense of relief when I let both barrels out.
> 
> You could see her wither and was defenseless the whole time. I felt like Perry Mason with all the facts and detailed evidence I had in hand. It was kind of a blur to me though because I pretty much let it loose and once I was done, walked away. She was pretty shaken after that.
> 
> I'm out and appreciate everyone's help and guidance.
> pilotranger


Man... what a crappy way to start off the new year. I know that you're probably a bit shaken right now, but I hope you're eating, sleeping well, etc.

How have things been in the house since Friday? Any talk of divorce or reconciliation? What do the kids know at this point?

Have you exposed to OMW yet? Any indication that your wife has let him in on the fact that you know? Do you still believe that the affair has been over since November? Did she wind up offering _any_ other excuse for the condoms?

Apologies for all the questions... just looking to get a sense for where your head is at. And, FWIW, it sounds like you handled the confrontation fairly well. Now close the loop and expose to OMW (assuming, of course, that you haven't already).


----------



## happyman64

Did you expose the affair to her family yet?


----------



## Suspecting2014

Give OMW all you have ASAP, I bet your wife already told him and he is working in a damage control strategy.

Your wife needs to see the OM trowing her undeunder the bus, so call him infront of her and let her see how he apology and say he will never contact her again. Do it before
Exposing to his wife, cople of minuts later drive to his house and deliver in hand the evidence.

Very imoportant, do not let your wife know you are exoosing to OMW.

Start 180 and go towards D until she asks for R if ever.

Take care of your self and get some IC ASAP.

Prepare an exposing letter to family and frieds aking to support your children.

Good luck

Keep venting

Keep reading


----------



## Chaparral

You can get good advice for reconciliation or divorce here, good luck whatever you choose.

Take care of yourself. Exercise, see your MD, counseling, eating right but no alcohol.

Prayers for you and your family.


----------



## poida

I would agree about moving toward D and letting her start R if she chooses to do so.

No point you wasting your time (as I did). You will just hurt yourself more. In fact, in many ways it hurts more than the original cheating.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilot,

I would like to ask a few questions:

Are you living in your house with her?
Did you ask her to leave?
Have you Talked to your are acerca D?
Did You Already filed for D?
Have Talked to her after confrontation? If yes, what does she want to do, D or R?


----------



## Suspecting2014

If I were you I would do the next.

Expose to OMW ASAP, the first thing.

Ask her out the house, at least the bedroom.

Do not sleep with her (I belive at some point she may try to get some normality, this will not mean that she is willing to save the marriage).

I would sign the divorce and get her serve ASAP.

Go dark about everything but subjects related to D or children, for every other matter hard 180.

Big time exposing, to friends and family, hers and yours.

Cut ties to Friends That allowed or knew what was happening and didnt tell you (they are not your friends).

Expose to the pastor at the church you used to go (I hope you are not going there anymore) as she wanting to go was not related to her faith but to see OM. Just to the pastor as OMW dont need to be umiliated infron of others.

Must impostant, start working on you, go aout wiht friends, gym, eat well, sleep well, ect


----------



## Suspecting2014

I read you say you are out, I would be, but remember that D is a process that could stop at any time, but before doing so it is necessary that three things happen IMO.

She encounters the reality that has created with tangible consequences as: separate finances, calculate alimony to you (as she is the main breadwinner), sell the house (if needed) to divide assets, family give support for chindren, talk to children, etc. This must happen anyway!

The second, she asks to R and meets the requirements, full remorse not for being caught but for the affair, apology to you and your chindren as well as friends and family.

The third, and most important, that you want and can do it, R is not for everyone. IMO you shouldnt, I belive she alredy check out for a long time.

Good luck


----------



## Dyokemm

Did she finally crack and admit the A?

Make sure you get the info/exposure to POS's BW ASAP.

Your WW will be quickly letting POS know you busted them and he will be moving fast to cover his tracks by blocking your access to his BW as much as possible and preparing a gaslighting cover story for her about how you are some crazy, jealous H who is falsely accusing him of having an A with your BW.

If your WW did crack and admit to the A, make sure to inform POS's BW of that confession.


----------



## Jasel

When dealing with her from now on you might want to have a voice recorder on you.


----------



## Graywolf2

Normally I would recommend that you tell your wife that you’re getting a divorce and do the 180. (You can always change your mind later) 

But your case is special. 

I would tell her that your first impulse is to get a divorce but you want to talk to the priest first. Take her with you and see if she lies to the priest. 

To friends and family you will be the good guy doing what the church wants you to do. How can she complain about that? 

This will be totally humiliating to your wife. Show your proof to the priest and ask his advice about informing the OMW. Do this in front of your wife. Maybe the priest could intervene with the OM and his wife for counseling. Seeing the OM in church should be fun.

EDIT: You need to show your proof to the priest so that he will know the facts. He needs to know that you're not making this all up. That way he can council the OM and his wife.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilot,

Is your wife willing to D? Did you talk about it?

It is much more better to have an amicable D than any legal battle, it doesnt mean you need to accept everything she want.

I think you need to get legal advice about how to proceed with D.

You need to know if where you live is a non-fault state and the advantages that you may have if it is not. Additionally the evidence you have came from her email so maybe you cant use it as hacking is a crime.

Is your wife a good mom? If her affair had any impact whatsoever on the raising of your children or affected them in anyway, this may be relevant for custody and support issues.

For custody matter don't leave your house as it would look like abandonment and it will affect your custody.

IMO, children needs mom and dad, so if she is willing make an easy D, she must be willing to spend time with her children and be able to, 50% custody may be he best for your children.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilot, 

One thing, THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT, is 100% hers!!!!

Dont let her get into your mind and make you belive that you marriage before her affair was a bad one or/and that youn leaded her to theb affair.

Infidelity is a choise not a consecuence!


----------



## Chaparral

I think he meant that was his last post here.


----------



## farsidejunky

Chaparral said:


> I think he meant that was his last post here.


Sounds like he chose to reconcile.


----------



## G.J.

I hope he didn't chicken out to not tell OMW the poor women


----------



## pilotranger

Suspecting2014 said:


> Pilot,
> 
> Is your wife willing to D? Did you talk about it?
> 
> It is much more better to have an amicable D than any legal battle, it doesnt mean you need to accept everything she want.
> 
> I think you need to get legal advice about how to proceed with D.
> 
> You need to know if where you live is a non-fault state and the advantages that you may have if it is not. Additionally the evidence you have came from her email so maybe you cant use it as hacking is a crime.
> 
> Is your wife a good mom? If her affair had any impact whatsoever on the raising of your children or affected them in anyway, this may be relevant for custody and support issues.
> 
> For custody matter don't leave your house as it would look like abandonment and it will affect your custody.
> 
> IMO, children needs mom and dad, so if she is willing make an easy D, she must be willing to spend time with her children and be able to, 50% custody may be he best for your children.



I've already sought legal counsel before I confronted her so I know where I stand and my legal rights. Let's just say I'm in a pretty good position. They pretty much dug their own graves when they referenced "hookie Fridays".


----------



## farsidejunky

So is it D or R? Your first post today did not indicate either way.


----------



## happyman64

So pilot does your wife want to stay in the marriage or does she want a D to be with the OM?

Two years is a good amount of time to be cheated on......


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> I've already sought legal counsel before I confronted her so I know where I stand and my legal rights. Let's just say I'm in a pretty good position. They pretty much dug their own graves when they referenced "hookie Fridays".


I wish you the best and hope you are right, but believe me when I tell you Lawyers will lie like cheaters (and tell the client what they think they want to hear, whether possible or not). Unless they referenced them as "Nookie Hookie Fridays" it may not mean anything, and if she can prove that you have had sex since your initial confrontation a few months ago, in some places that is viewed as forgiveness and infidelity is removed from the offenses. It sucks, as you didn't know and wouldn't have done the act knowing the truth, but that is how it is viewed in some legal systems.


----------



## the guy

What about exposing the A to OMW?

After she stewed on the hard confrontation did you go back and have an "honest" discussion...well as honest as a confronted cheater can be?

Or did you go dark?


----------



## the guy

Wow your old lady doesn't cry...that's weird!

Come on.... she didn't even tear up watching the "Notebook"?


----------



## Retribution

Pilot,

I feel for you. Your recent posts about confronting your wife have me feeling sick. I know exactly what you're going through.

With that said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and speak for most/all of us that we hope you stick around here for any help you need. Also, your experiences can help so many others. You have a lot to offer, even to those who have helped you through this.

I wish you the best, regardless if you decide R or D.


----------



## G.J.

the guy said:


> Wow your old lady doesn't cry...that's weird!
> 
> Come on.... she didn't even tear up watching the "Notebook"?


I enjoyed that movie and if anyone says anything I will deny...have to go to my gym now and do some dead lifts <walks off with John Wayne walk>


----------



## Suspecting2014

Pilot, 

How are you doing? 

How is your son doing?


----------



## Squeakr

G.J. said:


> I enjoyed that movie and if anyone says anything I will deny...have to go to my gym now and do some dead lifts <*walks off with John Wayne walk*>


His real name was Marion. Just saying... LOL


----------



## Nucking Futs

Squeakr said:


> I wish you the best and hope you are right, but believe me when I tell you Lawyers will lie like cheaters (and tell the client what they think they want to hear, whether possible or not). Unless they referenced them as "Nookie Hookie Fridays" it may not mean anything, and if she can prove that you have had sex since your initial confrontation a few months ago, in some places that is viewed as forgiveness and infidelity is removed from the offenses. It sucks, as you didn't know and wouldn't have done the act knowing the truth, but that is how it is viewed in some legal systems.


I can't disagree with anything you say here, but you're missing an angle. Hookie Fridays? Hookie from what? Work. What's their employer going to do when he finds out they've been scamming out of work to screw around? If I were their employer they'd be out the door immediately and I'd be checking with a lawyer to see if I had any kind of suit available to recover some of what I had paid them if they were on salary.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Squeakr said:


> His real name was Marion. Just saying... LOL


Maybe that's why he was so tough. Reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song...


----------



## norajane

Nucking Futs said:


> I can't disagree with anything you say here, but you're missing an angle. Hookie Fridays? Hookie from what? Work. What's their employer going to do when he finds out they've been scamming out of work to screw around? If I were their employer they'd be out the door immediately and I'd be checking with a lawyer to see if I had any kind of suit available to recover some of what I had paid them if they were on salary.


Why would he want his wife to be unemployed? Especially when she is the main breadwinner, and whether they stay together or divorce, she is the one with the bulk of the income for the household and their 3 children (and for alimony and child support!).

Pilot should be hoping that her employer never finds out and fires her, because then he'll be left holding the unpaid bills without her contribution, and might end up paying HER alimony.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

G.J. said:


> I enjoyed that movie and if anyone says anything I will deny...have to go to my gym now and do some dead lifts <walks off with John Wayne walk>


:rofl:


----------



## Squeakr

Nucking Futs said:


> Maybe that's why he was so tough. Reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song...


I love "A Boy Named Sue" (and the Cadillac song).


----------



## Squeakr

Nucking Futs said:


> I can't disagree with anything you say here, but you're missing an angle. Hookie Fridays? Hookie from what? Work. What's their employer going to do when he finds out they've been scamming out of work to screw around? If I were their employer they'd be out the door immediately and I'd be checking with a lawyer to see if I had any kind of suit available to recover some of what I had paid them if they were on salary.


Didn't miss that angle (as I actually thought about that), but you may be missing one. Just playing "hookie" is not against the rules depending on how you play it. If they called in sick that day, or had comp time and used it, or were just given the time off by their employer, then they were covered and using the term hookie in reference to their marriages and regular routine. Also we don't know that they actually did meet, as there is no actual proof he has other than the exchanged texts (which although revealing, are not definitive proof) 

You are assuming that they skipped out on work without excuses which would be wrong I agree, but we have no proof of this (and this angle means nothing in a D case, unless he is using it as blackmail, which is illegal as well), so this angle really has noting to do with his marital situation. If you are salary there is a general accepted amount of time to put in within a week, but generally no designated times to be working (hence comp time) and as long as they have produced such that week, there would possibly be little retribution for an employer, assuming they didn't falsify their work records.


----------



## Nucking Futs

norajane said:


> Why would he want his wife to be unemployed? Especially when she is the main breadwinner, and whether they stay together or divorce, she is the one with the bulk of the income for the household and their 3 children (and for alimony and child support!).
> 
> Pilot should be hoping that her employer never finds out and fires her, because then he'll be left holding the unpaid bills without her contribution, and might end up paying HER alimony.


It depends on how badly she behaves in the event of a divorce. If she's going to go scorched earth and try to screw him over, the gloves should come off on his end too and he should use every dirty trick he and we can come up with to ensure that she doesn't come out on top.

Of course, we don't know anything yet, this is just pure speculation. They may R, they may rugsweep, they may amicably divorce, they may go war of the roses. Pilot may be able to give us a hint how he thinks it's going to go but we all know a wayward that is being divorced can turn on a dime.


----------



## happyman64

Wait for pilot come back and update.


He has his hands full for sure.


----------



## lordmayhem

Chaparral said:


> I think he meant that was his last post here.


We hope not. That would be a mistake on his part. We all know well that D-Day is only the beginning stage of Coping with Infidelity. 

Far too many BSs disappear from here after the initial confrontation of D-Day without taking advantage of the collective wisdom of the many BSs here who have walked in their shoes.


----------



## harrybrown

Have you exposed to the OMW yet?

And to your wife's family and you family?

Sorry you are having this horrible experience.

Hope for a better 2015 than the cold wife 2014 that you had.


----------



## homedepot

pilotranger said:


> My childredn are 15, 13 and 8 years old.
> 
> They're both telling each other how much they love each other and agonize they can't see or touch each other, etc. daily.
> 
> Yes, she stopped having sex with me consistently in 2013, when the peak of their sexting and texting occurred. To me, the condoms is the smoking gun, along with her comments about 69 and sucking his package, etc.
> 
> In one of their emails, they talk about "hookie day" from their work on some Fridays.
> 
> Damn, I'm just dumbfounded how this could happen.


To be honest some people just get bored with the same sh*t. No fault of yours bro. Just know that nice guys in marriages finish last.


----------



## Wazza

lordmayhem said:


> Far too many BSs disappear from here after the initial confrontation of D-Day without taking advantage of the collective wisdom of the many BSs here who have walked in their shoes.


Pilot, if you choose reconciliation, I suggest you look for the "Reconciliation" thread started a couple of years ago by B1. It is the most supportive part of TAM that I know of for reconcilers.


----------



## pilotranger

Squeakr said:


> I wish you the best and hope you are right, but believe me when I tell you Lawyers will lie like cheaters (and tell the client what they think they want to hear, whether possible or not). Unless they referenced them as "Nookie Hookie Fridays" it may not mean anything, and if she can prove that you have had sex since your initial confrontation a few months ago, in some places that is viewed as forgiveness and infidelity is removed from the offenses. It sucks, as you didn't know and wouldn't have done the act knowing the truth, but that is how it is viewed in some legal systems.



Last time we had sex was 2/6/2014. They don't know who they're dealing with here.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Last time we had sex was 2/6/2014. They don't know who they're dealing with here.


:lol: :rofl:


----------



## Squeakr

pilotranger said:


> Last time we had sex was 2/6/2014. They don't know who they're dealing with here.


I hope your right, but many begore you have said the samr and many after will as well and it really went no where. I myself was one of those and I reside in one of the worst states against adultery and it all had made no difference at all. I wish you better luck than I have had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfman1968

pilotranger said:


> Last time we had sex was 2/6/2014. They don't know who they're dealing with here.


Whatever you decide, I think you will continue to get good advice here (or at least different perspectives, some you may not have thought of), whether you Reconcile or Divorce.


----------



## confusedinTX

I read some of the response but not all. Here is what I have to offer. My parents stayed in a marriage that was not happy for me until I moved out for college and it was not healthy. I knew from 13 that it was a matter of time and at 17 knew my dad had cheated. I was happy when they finally called it quits. While it is hard on some levels it is harder to see your parents unhappy and despite how hard you try to fake it they see the unhappiness. Your kids are old enough to pick up on it and also to understand and deal with divorce. Also if they are struggling you can get them counseling to help them out and also would recommend it for yourself.

My other angle is a person who has found out I have been cheated on as well. The difference being it was the past 8 years and with all escorts. He claims to be horrified and sorry and got himself into counseling and we started some before finding out because I sort of found out he was cheating before I found out the whole story. I am not sure I will stay with him but I know I am only trying because he is trying. Lots of people are saying the same thing which is if she isn't sorry and isn't willing to try then there is nothing there to do. Time to walk away. You need to help yourself and not try to save a marriage by yourself because from someone who in theory is trying to save a marriage with my husband it is harder then hell. I am so sorry you feel the way you do and understand how hard a decision it is to make because I am facing it to. I would say this print everything you have evidence wise and keep it somewhere safe along with all the other tips people said. I spoke to a lawyer before I found out the whole truth and that is what she told me to do. Our counselor told me to talk to lawyers just so I know what options are and what it might be. It was so hard to do but it is helpful to be informed and can help you make the right decisions on what to do next. 

Last try to reach out to people you might know that have been through this. It is a great support to have people to talk to to help you through what is a really horrible situation. I wish you luck and hope you find the right decision for you and your kids.


----------



## Archangel2

pilotranger said:


> Last time we had sex was 2/6/2014. They don't know who they're dealing with here.


Pilot - You have been given some great advice on this thread, but I wanted to address some other strategic, personal issues.

If you decide that D is the way to go:

1. You stated that you were forced to convert to Catholicism. Will you want to remain a Catholic?

2. If the answer to the above is yes, would you consider the Catholic annulment route in addition to D? If you are successful, it would show that you are a person of integrity in your parish who plays by the rules. Nowadays, there are more single women who are waiting until their mid to late 30's to get married (e.g. my oldest son and his wife are both 36 and just got married). If you met a Catholic girl who wanted to get married in the Church you would be able to fulfill her wish. You are not too old at 42.

I think the fact that you were forced to convert, the statements your wife made that you were two different people and the fact that she has denied you sex since early 2014 can give you potential grounds for an annulment. Perhaps you can make an appointment with your pastor to pursue this topic.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Archangel2 said:


> Pilot - You have been given some great advice on this thread, but I wanted to address some other strategic, personal issues.
> 
> If you decide that D is the way to go:
> 
> 1. You stated that you were forced to convert to Catholicism. Will you want to remain a Catholic?
> 
> 2. If the answer to the above is yes, would you consider the Catholic annulment route in addition to D? If you are successful, it would show that you are a person of integrity in your parish who plays by the rules. Nowadays, there are more single women who are waiting until their mid to late 30's to get married (e.g. my oldest son and his wife are both 36 and just got married). If you met a Catholic girl who wanted to get married in the Church you would be able to fulfill her wish. You are not too old at 42.
> 
> *I think the fact that you were forced to convert, the statements your wife made that you were two different people and the fact that she has denied you sex since early 2014 can give you potential grounds for an annulment. *Perhaps you can make an appointment with your pastor to pursue this topic.


Are you implying that her cheating is not grounds for an annulment?


----------



## Archangel2

Nucking Futs said:


> Are you implying that her cheating is not grounds for an annulment?


Unfortunately no. The Church does not consider that circumstance. It is more nuanced along the lines of was that spouse ever really ready for marriage?


----------



## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Are you implying that her cheating is not grounds for an annulment?


It doesn't seem like adultery is grounds for annulment. 

http://www.stmarys-waco.org/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf

The closest is this:

_Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain faithful._

Which I interpret as the two of them married and one of them did not intend to be faithful from the beginning of the marriage.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Archangel2 said:


> Unfortunately no. The Church does not consider that circumstance. It is more nuanced along the lines of was that spouse ever really ready for marriage?


I think this is right. I think the whole issue of annulment is that the marriage was not validly entered into from the very start. 

Thus, a vaild marriage in which subsequently wrongs were committed do not qualify for annulment. You could get a civil divorce, and certainly could live apart, but cannot remarry in the Church while both spouses live if the marriage is not annulled (i.e., determined that it is a vaild marriage). 

Now, the question of a valid marriage is the joker in the deck here. I think the Church Tribunal reviews the circumstances of the marriage and tries to determine if the required elements of a valid marriage existed at the time. "Were the participants of appropriate maturity of mind?", "did they have the right intentions and ability to carry out a true marriage?", "was there any sort of deceit?", etc. That sort of thing. I think the Tribunals vary on how strictly they apply this criteria.


----------



## Wolfman1968

lordmayhem said:


> It doesn't seem like adultery is grounds for annulment.
> 
> http://www.stmarys-waco.org/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf
> 
> The closest is this:
> 
> _Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
> You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain faithful._
> 
> Which I interpret as the two of them married and one of them did not intend to be faithful from the beginning of the marriage.


Nice link.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I don't want to start a religious war here, I have several catholic friends and make sure I don't talk about stuff like this with them. That being said, how does the catholic church reconcile the stance that you cannot marry if you divorce for adultery with the biblical doctrine that adultery is grounds for divorce? And how big a check would it take to get the bishop to authorize the annulment anyway?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Ok, now that I've actually clicked on the link and read the pdf, how about this?



> Future condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)
> You or your spouse attached a future condition to your decision to marry, e.g., you
> will complete your education, your income will be at a certain level, you will remain in
> this area.


When you make your vows and swear "forsaking all others", aren't you making a future condition? And wouldn't then breaking that condition be cause for annulment, or am I reading this wrong?


----------



## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Ok, now that I've actually clicked on the link and read the pdf, how about this?
> 
> 
> 
> When you make your vows and swear "forsaking all others", aren't you making a future condition? And wouldn't then breaking that condition be cause for annulment, or am I reading this wrong?


Annulment is all about the conditions when entering into the marriage - the beginning, not afterwards. If she never intended to be faithful, then that would be grounds. What she did was break her vows, which wouldn't be grounds, unless he can prove that she never intended to honor them from the beginning.

With all that said, I grew up Protestant, and consider myself Protestant to this day, despite getting baptized catholic so that my wife could have the wedding in a catholic church. We even go to mass every sunday, but I don't consider myself catholic at all. I just go to worship the Lord.


Anyway, we're getting way off topic here.


----------



## DadOfFour

Who gives a crap about an annulment, at least if you divorce her she will not be allowed to be married in a Catholic Church or by a Catholic Priest, IMO that will hit her harder than Pilot.

I can't believe the B&@ch didn't even cry, she sounds exactly like my wife, cold as ice (she's a Catholic girl too).

I've been following this thread since the start and I'm checking in at least a few times a day to see if anything has happened. Please Pilot when you have a chance let us know how it went down, who you exposed her to and that you are alright (PM me if you want to). I'm thinking about and hoping for the best for you, Pilot and your kids, because you are the real victims in all of this.

PS: I hope her parents found out at least.


----------



## Squeakr

My wife (Catholic as well) didn't cry either which is strangely out of character for her as she is a crier by nature. So yes sometimed they can be cold as ice or maybe the shock was so great that it stunned them into an emotionless state. 

I think the issue with annulment is one to pursue as there are differences of opinion about it. It is something that must be pursued within the church as there is a legal anullment which predicates upon the grounds of intentions prior to marriage and the church anullment which is different as it looks to invalidate the marriage in the churches eyes and not erase it totally in the eyes of the law like the legal does. I would discuss with the church if this is something that interests you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## z_man

Squeakr said:


> I think the issue with annulment is one to pursue as there are differences of opinion about it. It is something that must be pursued within the church as there is a legal anullment which predicates upon the grounds of intentions prior to marriage and the church anullment which is different as it looks to invalidate the marriage in the churches eyes and not erase it totally in the eyes of the law like the legal does. I would discuss with the church if this is something that interests you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My understanding (could easily be wrong) of the reasons for an annulment is for the purposes of remarriage. 

If the previous Catholic marriage is not annulled by the Church, then they cannot remarry in a Catholic Church ceremony.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't want to start a religious war here, I have several catholic friends and make sure I don't talk about stuff like this with them. That being said, how does the catholic church reconcile the stance that you cannot marry if you divorce for adultery with the biblical doctrine that adultery is grounds for divorce? And how big a check would it take to get the bishop to authorize the annulment anyway?


One of my former co-workers is a very devout Catholic. He's been married 5 times.

I didn't ask too many questions, but I know that he had to take his case to the bishop (if not even further) for each annulment/divorce.


----------



## Squeakr

z_man said:


> My understanding (could easily be wrong) of the reasons for an annulment is for the purposes of remarriage.
> 
> If the previous Catholic marriage is not annulled by the Church, then they cannot remarry in a Catholic Church ceremony.


Like I touched on and without going into great detail, it depends on whether it is legal or religious. They are too different things. To the Catholics (not sure if other religions have annulments, so can't speak for them), it is to have the divorce recognized within the church and to allow for marriage, so actually two things.

In the legal sense, it is to have a marriage completely reversed and wiped from the records as if it never actually happened for legal and tax purposes, and this is something granted by the state getting divorced in. It has strict standards to be met as well and generally has a limited time frame, such as within the first year of marriage. This is not religious related and one does not have to be Catholic (or any other religion) to have this type granted.

These two are separate and unrelated actions and one could be granted without the other.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I'm going to drop this discussion, I think I've dragged us into a thread jack and I hate thread jacks. It's moot until and unless PR decides he wants to marry again in the catholic church.

PR, I apologize for the thread jack.

Have you informed OMW yet?


----------



## pilotranger

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm going to drop this discussion, I think I've dragged us into a thread jack and I hate thread jacks. It's moot until and unless PR decides he wants to marry again in the catholic church.
> 
> PR, I apologize for the thread jack.
> 
> Have you informed OMW yet?


Not a problem. 

I stopped by the OMW's house but she was not home. Will try again next week.

So I confronted WW and everything fell into place and her reaction and words were pretty much according to the posts here. Question for all - she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet. Is this pretty normal? Is she going through the grief, shame, guilt, remorse, etc and just processing everything?

At what point should she be agreeing to counseling? Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I am open to counseling to see if I have anything left in me to move toward R, that's not saying I'm for R. I'm open to going through the process. D is still very high on my list. It all depends on her ACTIONS and not just her words.


----------



## jim123

pilotranger said:


> Not a problem.
> 
> I stopped by the OMW's house but she was not home. Will try again next week.
> 
> So I confronted WW and everything fell into place and her reaction and words were pretty much according to the posts here. Question for all - she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet. Is this pretty normal? Is she going through the grief, shame, guilt, remorse, etc and just processing everything?
> 
> At what point should she be agreeing to counseling? Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I am open to counseling to see if I have anything left in me to move toward R, that's not saying I'm for R. I'm open to going through the process. D is still very high on my list. It all depends on her ACTIONS and not just her words.


Not good, she is still in the fog. As long as you are willing to R, why stop


----------



## Dyokemm

pilotranger,

You have to kill the A completely before you should even consider the possibility of R or even asking her for counseling.

Counseling or R will never work unless POSOM and the A are forever over and gone.

You need her to admit the full extent of the A, write a NC letter or text that you see/preview and then ensure it is delivered/sent, expose the A to all family and friends, and make sure POS's BW knows of the A so she can give that scumbag something else to worry about than trying to keep the A with your WW.

Only after all of this is done and she is being completely transparent with everything (phone, email, etc) should you gauge her remorse and bring up the possibility of MC and R.

Kill the A first!

Then make sure she is showing true remorse through her actions, not words!

Otherwise you are wasting your time and opening yourself up for more pain.


----------



## Dyokemm

I'm still not sure from your updates.

Has she at least admitted to this being a PA?

Because if she is still gaslighting and lying, the A is still ongoing.

Kill it ASAP!


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Question for all - she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet. Is this pretty normal?


*YES, but it also is proof that she is not ready to humble herself, despise what she did, turn from her twisted affections, and show by ACTIONS that she is truly remorseful and ready for any and all help to start to repair the damage she has don*e.

She may be leaning in that direction but she needs to truly repent in spirit and actions. It usually takes a strong jolt or a series of jolts, usually in the form of consequences, before they break.

Stay strong, build yourself up in body, mind, and spirit and understand that this is a fog situation that mostly involves her inter-self and God. You are suffering greatly for this but you cannot change her freewill spirit. You can build yourself up so that in the event you are called upon to help her you will be ready. By building you up you will also be in better shape if she never repents and you take different options.


----------



## pilotranger

Dyokemm said:


> I'm still not sure from your updates.
> 
> Has she at least admitted to this being a PA?
> 
> Because if she is still gaslighting and lying, the A is still ongoing.
> 
> Kill it ASAP!


Yes, she admitted to "kissing and oral." She did not admit to intercourse. Wouldn't tell me when or where they would meet, but didn't have to. I have emails saying they'd meet on their "hookie Fridays".


----------



## Chaparral

Its because she doesn't want to reconcile. Why on earth didn't you expose to his wife first? You gave up your best chance to save your family. Bold action may have saved the day. Now you're just dangling on her string.

Good luck but this looks lost.


----------



## Chaparral

Mr Blunt said:


> *YES, but it also is proof that she is not ready to humble herself, despise what she did, turn from her twisted affections, and show by ACTIONS that she is truly remorseful and ready for any and all help to start to repair the damage she has don*e.
> 
> She may be leaning in that direction but she needs to truly repent in spirit and actions. It usually takes a strong jolt or a series of jolts, usually in the form of consequences, before they break.
> 
> Stay strong, build yourself up in body, mind, and spirit and understand that this is a fog situation that mostly involves her inter-self and God. You are suffering greatly for this but you cannot change her freewill spirit. You can build yourself up so that in the event you are called upon to help her you will be ready. By building you up you will also be in better shape if she never repents and you take different options.


Whoa, who took the "blunt" out of Mr. Blunt?:scratchhead:


----------



## Suspecting2014

pilotranger said:


> Nucking Futs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to drop this discussion, I think I've dragged us into a thread jack and I hate thread jacks. It's moot until and unless PR decides he wants to marry again in the catholic church.
> 
> PR, I apologize for the thread jack.
> 
> Have you informed OMW yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Not a problem.
> 
> I stopped by the OMW's house but she was not home. Will try again next week.
> 
> So I confronted WW and everything fell into place and her reaction and words were pretty much according to the posts here. Question for all - she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet. Is this pretty normal? Is she going through the grief, shame, guilt, remorse, etc and just processing everything?
> 
> At what point should she be agreeing to counseling? Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I am open to counseling to see if I have anything left in me to move toward R, that's not saying I'm for R. I'm open to going through the process. D is still very high on my list. It all depends on her ACTIONS and not just her words.
Click to expand...

She is in damage control, it means that she is deep in fog trying to keep things the way they were not facing concecuences.

One week afte confronting she would be begging for R!

Big mistake ofer to R without her asking, now she believes she can hide it while she stil is in love with OM.

I bet they stil in contact.

You really need to expose to OMW ASAP so he can trow your wife under the bus to save his sorry azz.

I bet that if you go to the service you used to at the same church OM wont be there as your wife told him about you knowing.

Call him and tell him he has an hour to come clean before you handle his wife all you have.

You really need to expose big time, other wise she will be stil in fog...

Until she faces conxecuences you wont be able to see if you can try R with her.

Do 180, expose big time and sign D. This will slap her into reality. Sorry but this is the only way at this moment to know if the woman you married is stil there.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Not a problem.
> 
> I stopped by the OMW's house but she was not home. Will try again next week.


Boo! Oh well, it happens. Stay the course!



pilotranger said:


> So I confronted WW and everything fell into place and her reaction and words were pretty much according to the posts here. Question for all - she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet. Is this pretty normal? Is she going through the grief, shame, guilt, remorse, etc and just processing everything?


Hard to say. It's possible, but it may just be that she's planning her exit.

Has she given you a timeline of the affair?

Did you get confirmation on whether or not it had ended by the time that you confronted? If not, has she committed to ending it?

Any indication that she's contacted OM since you confronted her?



pilotranger said:


> At what point should she be agreeing to counseling? Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I am open to counseling to see if I have anything left in me to move toward R, that's not saying I'm for R. I'm open to going through the process. D is still very high on my list. It all depends on her ACTIONS and not just her words.


It's OK to tell her that you're open to reconciliation, but you have to simultaneously let her know that (a) she's not off the hook for anything, (b) there will be no rugsweeping, and (c) counseling will be a part of the process. Additionally, she has to *KNOW* that you'll proceed w/ divorce if she doesn't cut out the bullsh*t and get on board.

If she sputters around for too much longer, exposing to her family may very well light a fire under her ass w/ respect to making a decision. But, depending on how you go about doing it, it may very well drive her to opt for divorce instead of reconciliation.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Yes, she admitted to "kissing and oral." She did not admit to intercourse. Wouldn't tell me when or where they would meet, but didn't have to. I have emails saying they'd meet on their "hookie Fridays".


Kissing and oral only? For two years? Yeah... right.

And she's aware that you have the e-mails, right?

Has she offered transparency w/ respect to electronic devices, accounts, passwords, etc? Doesn't sound like it. But has she been scrambling to _change_ any passwords?


----------



## Dyokemm

pilotranger,

She's still gaslighting IMO...she must think you are stupid if she expects you to believe they never had intercourse.

Why else would they need condoms?

I know some might retort that you can get STD's from oral, but if she was THAT concerned about STD's why in the h*ll would she even have been having any sexual contact with him?

No the condoms were to prevent pregnancy, which means intercourse.

For her to tell you otherwise is proof positive that she is still lying and gaslighting.

Wake her up to reality....do all the exposure I mentioned earlier....then go get/print out your state's D papers and start filling them out in front of her.

Tell her that her only chance to save her life and family as she knows them is to come completely clean and start meeting YOUR demands to even consider a shot at R.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Expose big time now!! Stop waiting as this is kiling the last chance you may have.

She is lying, call OM from her phone and verify stories then expose. 

You need to man up, act know. Go to his house now. Make and exposing email ti family, friends and pastor and send it now.

If want to R expose to his job, and hers.

Until she sees what she has los and what she is risking she wont stop being a cheater


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> YES, but it also is proof that she is not ready to humble herself, despise what she did, turn from her twisted affections, and show by ACTIONS that she is truly remorseful and ready for any and all help to start to repair the damage she has done.
> 
> She may be leaning in that direction but she needs to truly repent in spirit and actions. It usually takes a strong jolt or a series of jolts, usually in the form of consequences, before they break.
> 
> Stay strong, build yourself up in body, mind, and spirit and understand that this is a fog situation that mostly involves her inter-self and God. You are suffering greatly for this but you cannot change her freewill spirit. You can build yourself up so that in the event you are called upon to help her you will be ready. By building you up you will also be in better shape if she never repents and you take different options.
> 
> *By Chaparral*
> Whoa, who took the "blunt" out of Mr. Blunt?


Not sure where the blunt is missing. As I have said, she needs to be broken and consequences usually help. I have already communicated with pilot about consequences and his informing the OMW is one of them. However, Pilot cannot change her freewill that is all on her; Pilot does not need to take on a job where he cannot control the outcome and become depressed. Pilot can build himself up so that he can be in a better position to R or D. I was pretty blunt in my advice.


----------



## MEM2020

Condoms for oral? 

Very unusual. 

Either way - doesn't matter. 
1. Blowjobs or fvcking - it still fits the definition of a full blown physical affair. 
AND
2. She's monogamous with HIM - out of loyalty to HIM, she stopped sleeping with YOU

Until she comes back to your bed to have sex with YOU - the recon hasn't even started.....





pilotranger said:


> Yes, she admitted to "kissing and oral." She did not admit to intercourse. Wouldn't tell me when or where they would meet, but didn't have to. I have emails saying they'd meet on their "hookie Fridays".


----------



## lordmayhem

GusPolinski said:


> Kissing and oral only? For two years? Yeah... right.
> 
> And she's aware that you have the e-mails, right?
> 
> Has she offered transparency w/ respect to electronic devices, accounts, passwords, etc? Doesn't sound like it. But has she been scrambling to _change_ any passwords?


Trickle Truth of course. If it isn't the DDD, then its the TT. 

Pilotranger, whats this "agree to counseling"? You've got it backwards. A truly remorseful WS would be asking YOU to agree to counseling and transparency and willing to do anything to save the marriage.

Her attitude should show you that she's nowhere, and I mean nowhere near ready to even consider the idea. Don't even think of putting R on the table.


----------



## Wazza

Here's what you need to understand. If she doesn't care about losing the marriage, you can't save it.

And it seems pretty clear that right now she doesn't care. She is not fighting to keep you. Until that changes, not much you can do.


----------



## G.J.

GusPolinski said:


> it may just be that she's planning her exit.
> 
> Has she given you a *timeline of the affair?*
> 
> *Did you get confirmation* on whether or not it had ended by the time that you confronted? If not, has she committed to ending it?
> 
> *Any indication* that she's contacted OM since you confronted her?
> 
> It's OK to tell her that you're open to reconciliation, but you have to simultaneously let her know that
> (a) she's *not off the hook *for anything,
> (b) there will be *no rugsweeping*, and
> (c) *counseling will* be a part of the process.
> Additionally, she has to *KNOW* that you'll proceed w/ divorce if she doesn't cut out the bullsh*t and get on board.
> 
> If she sputters around for too much longer, exposing to her family may very well light a fire under her ass w/ respect to making a decision. But, depending on how you go about doing it, it may very well drive her to opt for divorce instead of reconciliation.


You really need to get *round to OMs wife* like yesterday

*NC letter* made by both of you and delivered by you

Action urgently to be taken now


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I am really surprised this exposure hasn't happened yet. It had so much steam behind it at the time that everyone was recommending it for killing the affair. Now that the steam has died down I don't know what will come of it. It might still kill it, but now it is questionable. And sometimes even a first exposure doesn't kill it but drive them straight to the AP. What made you choose to not expose already?

It is absolutely true that it does not sound like she is interested much in reconciliation. She needs to be broken just like Mr. Blunt described. She's not even close. Strategic exposure along with clear expectations the way Gus explained I believe is your ticket to completing your desire to find out how you want to move forward. I believe you need to tell her you have been thinking about it and you are not satisfied with the current state of things. 

1. Make her do no contact, on the phone with you there, while you are on a phone right beside her with his wife listening to your wife tell him she can't have an affair with him anymore and then hang up on the man and finish with the OMW. This should put some steam behind exposure again. 
2. Tell her parents and your parents (maybe even make HER make those calls with you standing there or invite them over and do it face to face - once again... steam)
3. Expose to anyone else needed, close friends that can be support, your church

She needs to feel the weight of what she has done regardless of if you guys survive it or not, its the kindest thing you can do for her going forward. And it will help give you some emotional closure that her choice was not your responsibility but hers.


----------



## bfree

I am not Mr Blunt but here it is all blunted for you. This is what she sees. You did not expose. You are weak. She sees it. You are wishy washy. So she responds the same way. This is what you get. A half assed response during confrontation. R is not possible right now. Will it be in the future? Possibly, if you find your courage and act like someone she should respect.


----------



## Jasel

Really should have exposed first but too late now. Also jumping the gun a bit with talk of counseling and reconciliation when she's not even out of the fog yet. That just puts you in a weaker position in her eyes.

Focus on the D and the 180. Stop letting her know she has options. File for divorce, EXPOSE, stop talking about counseling and the marriage unless you're sure the A has ended, she comes out of the fog, shows remorse and is willing to do the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. Unless she does ALL of these things you shouldn't even be toying with the idea of R.


----------



## allwillbewell

PR
Please listen to all the advice: expose, demand NC and MC as a condition of even considering R, go hard and proceed with the separation/divorce option which can always be halted.

I advise this on the basis of my own situation. I did not have TAM at the time, did everything wrong about gathering evidence, went soft, agreed to no exposure and offered R two days after DDay in my desperation and co-dependency. I tolerated too many lapses and did not realize how deep his fog was and how seriously he had transferred his loyalty, affection, emotional and sexual bonds to his AP.

It resulted in a 3.5 year nightmare of TT, blame-shifting, rugsweeping and continued non-physical contact with the OW which included personal attacks and taunting of me by his crazy AP. 

However, we made it through all that and rebuilt to a certain point of honesty, understanding and recommitment but at a price for me that FWH will NEVER understand. It has destroyed a part of my soul that I cannot see ever regaining though I remain hopeful. I will forever regret not doing what all the posters are advising. I am ambivalent about whether the pain and trauma of knowing the truth and the subsequent years of FR were worth the place we are in now. I constantly wonder if I had gone hard in the first place whether all that could have been avoided or whether forcing his hand would have resulted in a divorce which would have freed me to find new and sincere love. 

This is not meant as a threadjack to gain sympathy for myself, but as a lesson as to what you might face if you continue to compromise and stay soft. Playing hard ball is painful and the love you still hold for your WW creates sympathy in your heart for her. BSs try to avoid accepting the truth as long as they can: it hurts! Don't take that path; even if R happens you will be left with the unnecessary collateral damage of FR, doubts and suspicion which you will struggle with for a long, long time. 

Please don't misunderstand my present situation: I am 75% content with my marriage to a FW, I believe he is re-committed and loves me, I believe he is sincerely remorseful, ashamed and regrets his past decisions. I do not believe he will stray in the future. But the damage cannot be undone: I know what he was capable of and how he mishandled the opportunity to help me heal. But I do not feel I have completely forgiven him for what he did and how he handled R but realize that I am partly responsible for the some of that because of my soft attitude at the time...I chose to allow it! I still struggle with self respect. And the fact remains that if he ever betrays me in any way again, I am determined that our marriage would be done and I would face all the pain of divorce I sought to avoid in the first place.

Please do not chose that path.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> I am not Mr Blunt but here it is all blunted for you. This is what she sees. You did not expose. You are weak. She sees it. You are wishy washy. So she responds the same way. This is what you get. A half assed response during confrontation. R is not possible right now. Will it be in the future? Possibly, if you find your courage and act like someone she should respect.


Woah there pardner!!! It's more nuanced than that.

Exposure and weakness are separate things. Exposure can be a sign of strength (a person who will not be trifled with) but it can also be a sign of weakness (someone panicking or hurt lashing out).

So let's be more nuanced. 

1) If you suspect the affair is ongoing, selected exposure might make it harder for them to continue. Maybe the OMW and the priest at your church.

2) There is a moral argument that the OMW has the right to know what has been happening. We covered that earlier.

Now lets talk about strength and weakness.

Pilotranger, what is the dynamic of your marriage? How do decisions get made? How do you communicate during conflict? If for example your wife shouts and screams and you retreat into yourself for the sake of peace, then is it possible to suddenly reverse that dynamic? I suspect not. I think the relationship is what it is, and you need to work within that. You need to be strong but you need to define what that is for you.

For me, marriage was my secure place. Wife's affair blew that up. I had to accept that I could not rely on anyone else totally. I had to confront my own emotional demons alone. And I did, and found strength.

Had Mrs Wazza and I divorced, I would have needed that. But it also makes the marriage better. I know I could lose it. I don't want that, but neither do I fear it. That changes me. 

My wife's initial responses to the affair were maybe not dissimilar to your wife's. Denial of many things (I never got the full truth from her), refusal to do counselling....and continuing the affair. When the affair stopped....she is a conflict avoider, she went into her shell. Decades later we are still working through the issues it caused. That is in part, the nature of our dynamic as a couple. 

So, let me ask you two questions. First, why do you want to stay married to her? Writing it down will help you clarify your thoughts.

Second, what is the dynamic of your marriage like? It may be that your answer to this second question shows some weakness on your part. If so, that's ok. Better to face it and work out solutions based on who you are.

You have all types of people advising you here. Young, old. People whose marriages follow traditional gender roles and those who don't. Rich, poor. All different levels of education. You have to figure out how everything we say fits with who you and your wife are.


----------



## Wazza

A lot in your post worth considering AWBW.



allwillbewell said:


> However, we made it through all that and rebuilt to a certain point of honesty, understanding and recommitment but at a price for me that FWH will NEVER understand. It has destroyed a part of my soul that I cannot see ever regaining though I remain hopeful.


I never regained what was destroyed. That was healthy, because it was kind of an illusion, but after 25 years it still hurts.

PR, takeout for you of this - what you had is GONE. Accept it. You can never get it back. Instead, focus on what you will build in its place.



allwillbewell said:


> I constantly wonder if I had gone hard in the first place whether all that could have been avoided or whether forcing his hand would have resulted in a divorce which would have freed me to find new and sincere love. <snip> Playing hard ball is painful and the love you still hold for your WW creates sympathy in your heart for her. BSs try to avoid accepting the truth as long as they can: it hurts!


You can never know what would have happened. Don't lose energy contemplating that. 



allwillbewell said:


> Don't take that path; even if R happens you will be left with the unnecessary collateral damage of FR, doubts and suspicion which you will struggle with for a long, long time.


Forever. You just learn to live with it. 



allwillbewell said:


> if he ever betrays me in any way again, I am determined that our marriage would be done and I would face all the pain of divorce I sought to avoid in the first place.


Strength.


----------



## Wazza

Jasel said:


> Stop letting her know she has options.


My suggested priorities right now.....

1) What is right for the kids. 
2) What you want and need.
3) What she needs.

Balancing your needs and the kids is complicated, and we can discuss that in detail when the time is right. But this is a time to reset things with your wife. 

And like I said before, she is not behaving like someone who is scared of losing her marriage. Either she is done with it, or she thinks you don't have the cojones to walk. You can't reconcile while she's like that.


----------



## bfree

Wazza said:


> Woah there pardner!!! It's more nuanced than that.
> 
> Exposure and weakness are separate things. Exposure can be a sign of strength (a person who will not be trifled with) but it can also be a sign of weakness (someone panicking or hurt lashing out).
> 
> So let's be more nuanced.
> 
> 1) If you suspect the affair is ongoing, selected exposure might make it harder for them to continue. Maybe the OMW and the priest at your church.
> 
> 2) There is a moral argument that the OMW has the right to know what has been happening. We covered that earlier.
> 
> Now lets talk about strength and weakness.
> 
> Pilotranger, what is the dynamic of your marriage? How do decisions get made? How do you communicate during conflict? If for example your wife shouts and screams and you retreat into yourself for the sake of peace, then is it possible to suddenly reverse that dynamic? I suspect not. I think the relationship is what it is, and you need to work within that. You need to be strong but you need to define what that is for you.
> 
> For me, marriage was my secure place. Wife's affair blew that up. I had to accept that I could not rely on anyone else totally. I had to confront my own emotional demons alone. And I did, and found strength.
> 
> Had Mrs Wazza and I divorced, I would have needed that. But it also makes the marriage better. I know I could lose it. I don't want that, but neither do I fear it. That changes me.
> 
> My wife's initial responses to the affair were maybe not dissimilar to your wife's. Denial of many things (I never got the full truth from her), refusal to do counselling....and continuing the affair. When the affair stopped....she is a conflict avoider, she went into her shell. Decades later we are still working through the issues it caused. That is in part, the nature of our dynamic as a couple.
> 
> So, let me ask you two questions. First, why do you want to stay married to her? Writing it down will help you clarify your thoughts.
> 
> Second, what is the dynamic of your marriage like? It may be that your answer to this second question shows some weakness on your part. If so, that's ok. Better to face it and work out solutions based on who you are.
> 
> You have all types of people advising you here. Young, old. People whose marriages follow traditional gender roles and those who don't. Rich, poor. All different levels of education. You have to figure out how everything we say fits with who you and your wife are.


I wrote what I think she sees. It's a valid viewpoint and one I think is likely. Her little fantasy world is still intact. Her OM's little world is still stable and protected. She had/is having a two year affair, say it again, A TWO YEAR AFFAIR, and she has suffered no consequences. Her affair partner has suffered no consequences. Given this you don't see it as possible, even likely that she sees him as weak and not deserving of respect?


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> Wazza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woah there pardner!!! It's more nuanced than that.
> 
> Exposure and weakness are separate things. Exposure can be a sign of strength (a person who will not be trifled with) but it can also be a sign of weakness (someone panicking or hurt lashing out).
> 
> So let's be more nuanced.
> 
> 1) If you suspect the affair is ongoing, selected exposure might make it harder for them to continue. Maybe the OMW and the priest at your church.
> 
> 2) There is a moral argument that the OMW has the right to know what has been happening. We covered that earlier.
> 
> Now lets talk about strength and weakness.
> 
> Pilotranger, what is the dynamic of your marriage? How do decisions get made? How do you communicate during conflict? If for example your wife shouts and screams and you retreat into yourself for the sake of peace, then is it possible to suddenly reverse that dynamic? I suspect not. I think the relationship is what it is, and you need to work within that. You need to be strong but you need to define what that is for you.
> 
> For me, marriage was my secure place. Wife's affair blew that up. I had to accept that I could not rely on anyone else totally. I had to confront my own emotional demons alone. And I did, and found strength.
> 
> Had Mrs Wazza and I divorced, I would have needed that. But it also makes the marriage better. I know I could lose it. I don't want that, but neither do I fear it. That changes me.
> 
> My wife's initial responses to the affair were maybe not dissimilar to your wife's. Denial of many things (I never got the full truth from her), refusal to do counselling....and continuing the affair. When the affair stopped....she is a conflict avoider, she went into her shell. Decades later we are still working through the issues it caused. That is in part, the nature of our dynamic as a couple.
> 
> So, let me ask you two questions. First, why do you want to stay married to her? Writing it down will help you clarify your thoughts.
> 
> Second, what is the dynamic of your marriage like? It may be that your answer to this second question shows some weakness on your part. If so, that's ok. Better to face it and work out solutions based on who you are.
> 
> You have all types of people advising you here. Young, old. People whose marriages follow traditional gender roles and those who don't. Rich, poor. All different levels of education. You have to figure out how everything we say fits with who you and your wife are.
> 
> 
> 
> I wrote what I think she sees. It's a valid viewpoint and one I think is likely. Her little fantasy world is still intact. Her OM's little world is still stable and protected. She had/is having a two year affair, say it again, A TWO YEAR AFFAIR, and she has suffered no consequences. Her affair partner has suffered no consequences. Given this you don't see it as possible, even likely that she sees him as weak and not deserving of respect?
Click to expand...

Yes. Read my post above yours.

Edit to add : sorry about earlier brief response, was on my mobile.

I said more nuance was needed, that was all. My post you quoted was not disputing the obvious lack or respect or the need for PilotRanger to be stronger. It was questioning the assumption that exposure = strength, and exploring the nature of strength in a relationship.

The biggest show of strength is to make it clear you don't need her, and start moving forward as if she is no longer part of your life. IE, to actually be strongly independent, not needy. Set a direction, look after yourself, and then if she shows remorse and wants to come along, you may choose to consider it, or not. How you do that depends on your nature as a person and the dynamic of your relationship. For example, in my case exposing to her family, who were deeply religious, achieved nothing. What really got her attention was when I stopped wearing the wedding ring.

If she wants to be married, this will force her to choose. If she doesn't.....well it is what it is and you can't change it.


----------



## allwillbewell

Thank you Wazza..your encouragement is appreciated and hopefully your comments will also help PR to realize what must be done and save him months/years of anguish.

As I posted in a different thread: I am working to accept that the fairy tale I bought into will have a different ending. I will never go back to naitivity, denial or full on trust again...a hard lesson for sure but one that was necessary for my personal growth.


----------



## Wazza

pilotranger said:


> Yes, she admitted to "kissing and oral." She did not admit to intercourse. Wouldn't tell me when or where they would meet, but didn't have to. I have emails saying they'd meet on their "hookie Fridays".


I never got the truth from her either. I put it together by detective work, and gave her both barrels.



pilotranger said:


> Not a problem.
> she tells me she is not ready for counseling or to talk to a priest yet.


In the light of the discussion about exposure and strength.....

In your shoes I would talk to the priest alone and tell him everything. She gets no say. 

I would also start making active preparations for divorce. If she is willing to be intimate with other men, and not even willing to attempt to work on your marriage, you know where you stand. Sorry.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Pilot

Your son cried because he dreamed that your wife treated you badly and that you two were going to divorce. You showed her proof of her betrayal of you and the children and let her have it with both barrels. If your wife has not broken or shown very positive signs of being broken then I would file for divorce, maybe think about filing regardless of her breaking. *You probably cannot live with a cheating woman that would not even take a very strong initiative to R even after harming her innocent son and having to face her own betrayal.*

Your wife will eventually break or continue to live a life that has no integrity. That is not your concern but what is your concern is that she has harmed the family NOT YOU! Your children will be upset by the divorce but will be better in the long run with you taking the proper steps to protect and guide your children. *Your son’s dream may come true but that is on your wife NOT YOU.*

Do everything you can to get full custody of at least your daughter. Never stop being super protective of your daughter in the event that you divorce and she gets some other man. Remember what I said in my PM to your in December about getting custody of your children. Even if your wife breaks and goes for R I would still suggest that you get some legal papers in regards to your children especially your daughter.

I really thought that your wife would break because of your son’s dream and you confronting but she did not so then it seems that she is pretty hard.

*Sorry for your pain my brother but this too shall pass and you can have a good life. Wives are not 100% of your life and you can recover and do well.*


----------



## the guy

How was church? Was OM there?


----------



## Graywolf2

pilotranger said:


> Yes, she admitted to "kissing and oral." She did not admit to intercourse.


Nude photos (which included the face) and condoms set the baseline for the trickle truth pretty high. I think it’s interesting that they used condoms for oral sex. 

I have to admit that it’s a far better story than one about using the condoms for tampon insertion. After you get the tampon in, how do you get the condom out?


----------



## Chaparral

Its all how you phrase the question. 

It probably should have been, " do you want to go to marriage counseling, talk to the priest, go to the divorce attorneys, divorce counseling and of course , no matter what, its obvious the kids are going to have to have counseling, that's a foregone conclusion. Do you have any preferences for the kids counselors?"


----------



## Chaparral

For one thing, does she think you believed the condom story? I would have laughed in her face and explained why. Tell you don't believe she would destroy two families for a hum job.


----------



## ricky15100

Graywolf2 said:


> Nude photos (which included the face) and condoms set the baseline for the trickle truth pretty high. I think it’s interesting that they used condoms for oral sex.
> 
> I have to admit that it’s a far better story than one about using the condoms for tampon insertion. After you get the tampon in, how do you get the condom out?


Maybe they put a hole in the end first?


----------



## Dogbert

So she said the condoms were to help her with putting on her tampons? I can see that, especially if the condom is over the "applicator" which coincidentally happens to be attached to a very helpful OM.


----------



## Forest

Graywolf2 said:


> Nude photos (which included the face) and condoms set the baseline for the trickle truth pretty high. I think it’s interesting that they used condoms for oral sex.
> 
> I have to admit that it’s a far better story than one about using the condoms for tampon insertion. After you get the tampon in, how do you get the condom out?


Brother. Maybe if he just asked her:

"Do you really want to married to a husband that would believe these kind of lies?"


----------



## norajane

Pilot, have you confided in anyone about your wife's cheating? Do you have a friend or family member you can talk with? 

I imagine you must be feeling pretty awful right now, and I'm sorry you have to go through this. Seek out friends and family who can help you get through this awful time emotionally, and who can remind you that you are loved and cared for regardless of what happens with your wife.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Pilot, here are my comments:


This marriage is over and has been for some time.


Your wife is a cheater, a liar, disrespectful and deceitful. You should not want to be with her.


More importantly, she is in love with the POSOM and is not only having sex with him (regularly), she is in an exclusive relationship with him and you are the outsider.


She has a bigger problem in focussing on getting him to leave his wife and be with her. You are just a distraction, and apart from exposing to her family and bringing more trouble on her head, she couldn't give a damn whether you know or not. She is loyal to him.


You need to expose to his wife, not just to attempt to kill the affair but also because she morally needs to know. You should destroy this POS if you can - with his employers, with his wife, where ever possible.


You need to be ready to lose her - right now MC will not help and will be a complete waste of time and money. See an attorney, get your ducks in a row with regard to assets, money and custody and file for Divorce asap. Expose the affair to all!


Do the 180 to heal yourself and also work on yourself physically.


She is gone and right now does not seem to be showing any signs of even wanting to come back, leave alone showing genuine remorse in actions.

By the way, how did she explain the condoms in her briefcase ?


----------



## GusPolinski

manfromlamancha said:


> By the way, how did she explain the condoms in her briefcase ?


Apparently she was using them to insert tampons.

Yeah. Figure that one out.


----------



## lordmayhem

She was obviously caught by surprise and said the first stupid lie that popped into her head.


----------



## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Apparently she was using them to insert tampons.
> 
> Yeah. Figure that one out.


A doctor would roll his eyes at that.


----------



## honcho

lordmayhem said:


> She was obviously caught by surprise and said the first stupid lie that popped into her head.


You would think with all the work they put into hiding and keeping the secret they could take a minute or two to at least try and think of a halfway reasonable line of bull.


----------



## Archangel2

manfromlamancha said:


> Pilot, here are my comments:
> 
> 
> This marriage is over and has been for some time.
> 
> 
> Your wife is a cheater, a liar, disrespectful and deceitful. You should not want to be with her.
> 
> 
> More importantly, she is in love with the POSOM and is not only having sex with him (regularly), she is in an exclusive relationship with him and you are the outsider.
> 
> 
> She has a bigger problem in focussing on getting him to leave his wife and be with her. You are just a distraction, and apart from exposing to her family and bringing more trouble on her head, she couldn't give a damn whether you know or not. She is loyal to him.
> 
> 
> You need to expose to his wife, not just to attempt to kill the affair but also because she morally needs to know. You should destroy this POS if you can - with his employers, with his wife, where ever possible.
> 
> 
> You need to be ready to lose her - right now MC will not help and will be a complete waste of time and money. See an attorney, get your ducks in a row with regard to assets, money and custody and file for Divorce asap. Expose the affair to all!
> 
> 
> Do the 180 to heal yourself and also work on yourself physically.
> 
> 
> She is gone and right now does not seem to be showing any signs of even wanting to come back, leave alone showing genuine remorse in actions.


:iagree: I would only add that you may need to expose to protect your good name. 

Peace and strength, my friend.


----------



## Archangel2

Archangel2 said:


> :iagree: I would only add that you may need to expose to protect your good name.
> 
> Peace and strength, my friend.


And be prepared to go nuclear with your proof in case your WW and OM try to depict you as the "crazy jealous husband" to the OMW.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Pilotranger, can you give us an update on your actions? It's 10 days since you confronted, have you done anything besides making one attempt to expose to OMW?

The longer you delay, the weaker you look to your WW and the less chance you have of saving this thing.


----------



## BetrayedDad

pilotranger said:


> I found condoms in her briefcase.


That's very unusual... A very high majority don't use protection with a steady OM. While ironically WWs tend to be loyal to their AP's, almost makes you wonder if there were some one night stands going on too. Maybe even prior to the OM. He could have been another one nighter that she just fell for. The tampon excuse is a direct assult on your intelligence. 

She clearly thinks you are a complete fool.


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> That's very unusual... A very high majority don't use protection with a steady OM. While ironically WWs tend to be loyal to their AP's, almost makes you wonder if there were some one night stands going on too. Maybe even prior to the OM. He could have been another one nighter that she just fell for. The tampon excuse is a direct assult on your intelligence.
> 
> She clearly thinks you are a complete fool.


Hey, it's entirely possible that there was more than one OM involved. After all, OP has stated that it looked like his WW sent OM what was basically a NC letter back in November.

Sooo... the condoms could have very well been for OM #2. Or OM #3. Or, Hell... OM #2 _AND_ OM #3.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Ask OMW about condoms to know what OM said. Maybe your WW was loooking for a ONS to move on from OM.

Your WW checked out long time ago.


----------



## convert

honcho said:


> You would think with all the work they put into hiding and keeping the secret they could take a minute or two to at least try and think of a halfway reasonable line of bull.


yes

like if i was caught with condoms I could say I use them when i go hunting and put them over the barrel of the gun to keep water out. yea my hunting buddies would not let me live that down. I would just use scotch tape over the end of the barrel

I think some soldiers did that in the Korean war


----------



## 3putt

convert said:


> yes
> 
> like if i was caught with condoms I could say I use them when i go hunting and put them over the barrel of the gun to keep water out. yea my hunting buddies would not let me live that down. I would just use scotch tape over the end of the barrel
> 
> I think some soldiers did that in the Korean war


Soldiers as far back as WWII have used condoms on gun barrels to keep water and whatnot out.


----------



## Wazza

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, it's entirely possible that there was more than one OM involved. After all, OP has stated that it looked like his WW sent OM what was basically a NC letter back in November.
> 
> Sooo... the condoms could have very well been for OM #2. Or OM #3. Or, Hell... OM #2 _AND_ OM #3.


Lots of things are possible. 

What matters more is whether they are likely. And that I don't know, based on the information provided.....

But PR, be wary of buying into the worst case thing. If you can't get the truth, then all you can really do is work out the worst likely case and see if you can live with it. Is that where you are?


----------



## Dogbert

Pilotranger: "Oh almost forgot. I punctured the condoms."
WW: "OMG!!"


----------



## the guy

Nucking Futs said:


> Pilotranger, can you give us an update on your actions? It's 10 days since you confronted, have you done anything besides making one attempt to expose to OMW?
> 
> The longer you delay, the weaker you look to your WW and the less chance you have of saving this thing.


I'm thinking OP's atty told him to be tight lipped.

I do see some thread were after the **** hits the fan, an OP goes from paragraphs of replies to one or two sentences.

This sh1t changes you!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Normal self protection. It does change you theguy, you are right.

I know none of us envy him right now. So sorry for your pain OP.


----------



## Q tip

3putt said:


> Soldiers as far back as WWII have used condoms on gun barrels to keep water and whatnot out.


Nothing like safe shooting while killing on the battlefield...


----------



## vellocet

pilotranger said:


> Then asked her why she had condoms in briefcase and she tried to make excuse it helps her put on tampons easier


Yes, like its rocket science to simply put it up there. And how would the condom help anyway?...oh, it wouldn't, that's right.




> Then asked her it's used to screw the bastard isn't it? Wouldn't answer or commit to answer.


Then the answer is "yes"




> So I pulled out the emails, texts, selfies, etc. She seemed irritated that I hacked into her email account


Too freakin' bad. She doesn't get to be all offended.





> My wife is not a cryer, and I didn't expect her to cry. She didn't, but I could just see she was traumatized inside and shameful feeling.


She isn't shameful. Just embarrassed she got caught.



So in a couple posts you said you sought legal counsel, but are still open to the idea of MC. I'd keep on trucking with the legal counsel and start taking steps to free yourself from her.


----------



## KingwoodKev

From what I've seen you haven't been able to tell OMW yet. If you don't then you're an accomplice to his betrayal. The truth is always the right thing to do. She must know. Who among us wouldn't want to be told?


----------



## Nucking Futs

KingwoodKev said:


> *From what I've seen you haven't been able to tell OMW yet. If you don't then you're an accomplice to his betrayal.* The truth is always the right thing to do. She must know. Who among us wouldn't want to be told?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## carmen ohio

It's been two weeks since the OP confronted his WW and six days since we last heard from him. At this point in time, I'd say that he is officially . . .


----------



## weightlifter

The boogeyman checks under his bed for Chuck Norris.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Maybe he's searhcing the net for alternative uses for condoms...


1. To protect your cellphone from getting wet when you’re out and it’s raining or hiking
2. Filled with ice and frozen to use as ice packs in boxing
3. For cleaning CDs 
4. As a slingshot 
5. As water balloons or to store water
6. To polish your boots and shoes
7. Over the barrel of a rifle when it’s raining – you don’t even have take it off to shoot
8. To prevent bait from washing off the hook while trawling for fish. Simply pull the condom over the bait after it’s attached to the hook. Cut the ends of and voila!
9. The lubricant is great for dry hair
10. When swimming, used as a condom to protect against small catfish called candiru that are attracted to urine and blood (and like to travel up the urethra).
11.To smuggle drugs inside the body
12. Archaeologists use them to collect water samples from stalactites for research.
13. To protect microphones in transit (using non-lubricated ones)

And lastly for


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Maybe he's searhcing the net for alternative uses for condoms...
> 
> 
> 1. To protect your cellphone from getting wet when you’re out and it’s raining or hiking
> 2. Filled with ice and frozen to use as ice packs in boxing
> 3. For cleaning CDs
> 4. As a slingshot
> 5. As water balloons or to store water
> 6. To polish your boots and shoes
> 7. Over the barrel of a rifle when it’s raining – you don’t even have take it off to shoot
> 8. To prevent bait from washing off the hook while trawling for fish. Simply pull the condom over the bait after it’s attached to the hook. Cut the ends of and voila!
> 9. The lubricant is great for dry hair
> 10. When swimming, used as a condom to protect against small catfish called candiru that are attracted to urine and blood (and like to travel up the urethra).
> 11.To smuggle drugs inside the body
> 12. Archaeologists use them to collect water samples from stalactites for research.
> 13. To protect microphones in transit (using non-lubricated ones)
> 
> And lastly for


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## soccermom2three

Ever since he posted that his wife told him that she had the condoms to help with her inserting tampons, I've been trying to figure out how that works. I can't think of one, so I googled and the only thing I found was a woman that posted that she used a tampon to get a used condom out of her.


----------



## 3putt

soccermom2three said:


> Ever since he posted that his wife told him that she had the condoms to help with her inserting tampons, I've been trying to figure out how that works. I can't think of one, so I googled and the only thing I found was a woman that posted that she used a tampon to get a used condom out of her.


LOL!!


----------



## Nucking Futs

soccermom2three said:


> Ever since he posted that his wife told him that she had the condoms to help with her inserting tampons, I've been trying to figure out how that works. I can't think of one, so I googled and the only thing I found was* a woman that posted that she used a tampon to get a used condom out of her.*


I guess the old dental pick wasn't good enough for her.

On another note, PR hasn't been back in almost a week. My bet is he's rug sweeping.


----------



## VFW

pilotranger said:


> At what point should she be agreeing to counseling? Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I am open to counseling to see if I have anything left in me to move toward R, that's not saying I'm for R. I'm open to going through the process. D is still very high on my list. It all depends on her ACTIONS and not just her words.


If she was truly remorseful she would have already said yes. She is gaslighting and downplaying what you do know, trying to get you to doubt yourself. Expose to her family and OMW as soon as possible. She may then be shamed into giving reconciliation a try, but will still be less than truthful. She may currently be holding out to see what other man does.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> I guess the old dental pick wasn't good enough for her.
> 
> On another note, PR hasn't been back in almost a week. *My bet is he's rug sweeping.*


Eh... I didn't get that impression from him _at all_.


----------



## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... I didn't get that impression from him _at all_.


When someone disappears so completely after D-day that's what I usually think. He hasn't logged in in 6 days.

The last thing we knew was that she was gas lighting and he had done nothing but his initial confrontation.


----------



## Dyokemm

"When someone disappears so completely after D-day that's what I usually think. He hasn't logged in in 6 days.

The last thing we knew was that she was gas lighting and he had done nothing but his initial confrontation."

Rugsweeping is one of two highly probable situations....the other is that full exposure and confrontation to AP's BS and WS's family has opened a HUGE can of worms and created so much drama and confusion that the last thing on an OP's mind is posting until things calm somewhat.

Of course, a third possibility is that an OP has simply lost interest and returned to his home under the bridge.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dyokemm said:


> "When someone disappears so completely after D-day that's what I usually think. He hasn't logged in in 6 days.
> 
> The last thing we knew was that she was gas lighting and he had done nothing but his initial confrontation."
> 
> Rugsweeping is one of two highly probable situations....the other is that full exposure and confrontation to AP's BS and WS's family has opened a HUGE can of worms and created so much drama and confusion that the last thing on an OP's mind is posting until things calm somewhat.
> 
> Of course, a third possibility is that an OP has simply lost interest and returned to his home under the bridge.


Eh... if OP is a bridge-dweller (I don't get that impression either), then he is certainly very committed to his craft, as he went well over a year w/o posting about his marital issues in different threads.


----------



## larry.gray

I don't get the impression either (not many of the flags the persistent troll uses).

But I'll point out that you shouldn't use the registration date as a sign. There is at least one persistent troll that pulls and banks many user names to use as the troll and sock-puppets.


----------



## GusPolinski

larry.gray said:


> I don't get the impression either (not many of the flags the persistent troll uses).
> 
> But I'll point out that you shouldn't use the registration date as a sign. There is at least one persistent troll that pulls and banks many user names to use as the troll and sock-puppets.


Eh... that's not the only thing. Again, I'm just not getting that impression from his posts.

You're right, though.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

There's reasons a plenty for a BS to stop posting here. Rug sweeping, the WS got them duped, WS found out about TAM, the WS is leaving/left for the AP, the WS filed false charges, or they don't like the tune that most of us were playing in our responses.

Coming to the realization of what their WS has done when you get some proof is a tough pill to swallow.

If he had hard confronted, exposed, or filed for D, he would most likely have posted back here.

When you don't hear from them for a while, it's usually because they have nothing positive to write about and they see no good out of airing their problems on here anymore.

You can lead a horse to water... Sometimes you can't even get the horse back out of the barn.


----------



## BashfulB

Or maybe she hired a hit man to snuff him.


----------



## G.J.

BashfulBull said:


> Or maybe she hired a hit man to snuff him.


Or she had brothers who care about family reputation and got rid of the cause


----------



## Nucking Futs

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> There's reasons a plenty for a BS to stop posting here. Rug sweeping, the WS got them duped, WS found out about TAM, the WS is leaving/left for the AP, the WS filed false charges, or they don't like the tune that most of us were playing in our responses.
> 
> Coming to the realization of what their WS has done when you get some proof is a tough pill to swallow.
> 
> If he had hard confronted, exposed, or filed for D, he would most likely have posted back here.
> 
> When you don't hear from them for a while, it's usually because they have nothing positive to write about and they see no good out of airing their problems on here anymore.
> 
> You can lead a horse to water... Sometimes you can't even get the horse back out of the barn.


You left out one possibility: his lawyer told him to stop posting on here. Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## Dyokemm

Gus,

I agree...I didn't get that sense either.

Just throwing out another possibility for an MIA OP....and Goundpounder added a few more.


----------



## Pepper123

My parents stayed together 14 years - then divorced the month after I graduated HS. Had my mother not been an emotionally neglectful narcissist, and my dad a withdrawn, miserable depressant.... I might say, "Divorce!" But as crappy as my options were, they probably chose the best one. 

So, if you guys are normal - even just one of you... I'd divorce. Don't divorce if you guys can't take care of yourselves solo, plus kids. It is really, really exhausting.... but for me, worth it.


----------



## Iver

Just read the thread - seems rather obvious your wife does not want to reconcile. Won't discuss, won't do therapy, continues to lie...

Do notify the OMW if you haven't done so already. Think of it as common courtesy.

Notify your wife's family just so she can't spin you as a bad guy. In the end they'll probably "take her side" but there's not much you can do about it.

Notify your children in an age apropriate way what is happening. e.g. Mom had a boyfriend and that's not what married people do. 

Divorce her and move on with your life. I suspect you will be much happier once the dust settles and she is out of your life.


----------



## vellocet

pilotranger said:


> Has anyone have experience with staying together for the kids, then when they grow to be young adults, then divorce?


For the little more than one month after Dday, I tried to stay, and yes, it was for my kids. I couldn't bear the thought of a cheating wife getting custody and turning me into an every other weekend dad.

But after that short time, I just couldn't do it. I was getting TMJ from gritting my teeth whenever I looked at her cheating face.

And I sure as hell wasn't going to waste my life away waiting for them to turn 18. 

So my advice is, if someone is thinking about divorce, do it. Don't wait all those years. Life is short and you only get one.


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> pilotranger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by pilotranger View Post
> Has anyone have experience with staying together for the kids, then when they grow to be young adults, then divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> For the little more than one month after Dday, I tried to stay, and yes, it was for my kids. I couldn't bear the thought of a cheating wife getting custody and turning me into an every other weekend dad.
> 
> But after that short time, I just couldn't do it. I was getting TMJ from gritting my teeth whenever I looked at her cheating face.
> 
> And I sure as hell wasn't going to waste my life away waiting for them to turn 18.
> 
> So my advice is, if someone is thinking about divorce, do it. Don't wait all those years. Life is short and you only get one.
Click to expand...

I read velocity's post and then took time to think. I can relate to the teeth gritting piece absolutely....though I got beyond that. Describing it as a waste of my life waiting for them to turn 18 doesn't work for me though. If I thought I was needed there, it was worth it. That's a personal statement. In no way am I criticising anyone who made the decision to go. Every situation is different.

The thing is, you either stay or you don't. And either way could be wrong. My wife and I were able to work through things....not perfect but good. Not everyone is so lucky.

In my case, if it went bad and I chose to divorce my wife now....I'm older. I made the decision to stay, and that cost me the chance to build a life with someone else. Divorce now would be a lot of disruption to all sorts of stuff. 

Even divorce can be disruptive. I have a friend who moved to a small town a long way from family, friends and career prospects. He married, had kids, divorced. He made the choice to stay in that town for them.

And financially, it's cheaper to stay married


----------



## Squeakr

Wazza said:


> And financially, it's cheaper to stay married


This is not always the case and shouldn't be considered as standard given truth. It depends on the way that everyone handles their financial obligations. I can say that the actual D can be a huge financial expense, but like in my case, I rarely leave the house, cook at home, and am much more frugal with money than the STBXW. She is unable to save and lives paycheck to paycheck (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but offers no security in the event of unexpected need).

When we did the finances, I was able to prove that she always spent more than she brought in. Her saying was I make money and contribute so I can spend equally (just seems her equal portion of the spending side was always more than her equal portion of the providing side). I am finding that I am able to save some money now that we are no longer together where as before I wasn't.

So it is not a given that it is financially better to remain married. If you are both responsible you can also find ways to D economically as well to reduce that burden. In fact the credit bureaus reevaluate your scores every 3-4 months and mine has been increasing since I no longer have her debts and erratic payment history to deal with (and mine is more stable as I am more responsible in paying on time than she).

Just food for thought.


----------



## lordmayhem

I hope he's doing well, but now his first thread makes complete sense. She was in an affair, which is why she cut off the intimacy. For those lurking out there, this is a possible reason that your spouse stops being intimate with you.

This is his thread and his words:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/127698-wife-not-affectionate-intimate-im-running-low-patience.html



pilotranger said:


> I ALWAYS initiate sex, I ALWAYS give hugs first, and kisses. During sex, she just LAYS there. Damn, I even give her really nice professional grade massages to get her relaxed and in the mood. I ask her to maybe get on top or try something different for once and she ALWAYS says, "NO".
> 
> And then she just lays there falling asleep and pushes me away when I try to kiss her or touch her or give her oral sex, etc. She "rewards" me with sex by laying there and letting me do her for 2 minutes, then when I cum, she pushes me away and glad it's over.
> 
> Her "I love you" is even weak and I always say it first.
> 
> I work from my home office, so I take the kids to all after school activities, doctor appointments, teacher conferences, etc. I even cook every night (not warm up in the microwave, but COOK nice meals) and worry about most of the stuff for the kids. I'm respectful to my wife, don't abuse her, think the world of her, thinks she's the most gorgeous woman on earth, but I get the cold shoulder or the comment, "I'm just not feeling it" or "I work with guys all day, the last person I want to deal with when I get home is you" comment. Yes, she said that to me, but claims she does not remember saying it.
> 
> Guys, I'm at the point where I'm frustrated, resentful, mad as hell and need some love, intimacy, or just SOME respect for god sake!! I've tried everything - talking with her about it, confronting her, saying this is not right, etc...
> 
> I'm at the point where I am thinking of having an affair, just so I could get some human affection from SOMEBODY. Feel like I live with a freaking robot.
> 
> Any thoughts and suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> pilotranger


Many times when a WS is cheating, they become faithful to their AFFAIR PARTNER. It does not matter what try to do to spice things up, once they are in affair land where its all lollipops and unicorns, the BS cannot break through. 

So trying to win them back is bullsh!t.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> I read velocity's post and then took time to think. I can relate to the teeth gritting piece absolutely....though I got beyond that. Describing it as a waste of my life waiting for them to turn 18 doesn't work for me though. If I thought I was needed there, it was worth it. That's a personal statement. In no way am I criticising anyone who made the decision to go. Every situation is different.


Wazza, I fully understand. Its hard, damn hard, to think about leaving one's family even though they aren't the ones that didn't care enough to keep from destroying it in the first place.

I too thought about staying until they were old enough. I just couldn't do it. I understand why you would want to stay. Hope everything works out the way you want. In your corner my man.


----------



## happyman64

Hopefully PilotRanger will come back and let us know he and his family are ok.


----------



## BetrayedDad

lordmayhem said:


> I hope he's doing well, but now his first thread makes complete sense. She was in an affair, which is why she cut off the intimacy. For those lurking out there, this is a possible reason that your spouse stops being intimate with you.
> 
> Many times when a WS is cheating, they become faithful to their AFFAIR PARTNER. It does not matter what try to do to spice things up, once they are in affair land where its all lollipops and unicorns, the BS cannot break through.


My ex cut me off during her most of affair. Not that the once a month I was getting for years prior was much to really miss. Come to find out she had made a secret pact with her AP to be "faithful" to each other. Irony abounds there. 

First few times we had sex post D-day she became nauceous right after and ran to the bathroom. Apparently, the notion of cheating on her AP with her HUSBAND made her sick to her stomach literally. She had long checked out from reality at that point.


----------



## the guy

BetrayedDad said:


> My ex cut me off during her most of affair. Not that the once a month I was getting for years prior was much to really miss. Come to find out she had made a secret pact with her AP to be "faithful" to each other. Irony abounds there.
> 
> First few times we had sex post D-day she became nauceous right after and ran to the bathroom. Apparently, the notion of cheating on her AP with her HUSBAND made her sick to her stomach literally. She had long checked out from reality at that point.


There is no way we could R.

Chicks puking is one fetish I'm just not into. But if I was then maybe doing my old lady while she got sick would work for me.

I wonder sometimes why Mrs. the guy's affairs were so short......I'm guessing it didn't take long for the OM's to figure out that they were the ones getting sloppy seconds.

Way back when, I think in the back of my mind I knew she was screwing around. So I took her 1st before she went out with the "girls".

I've said this before and I'll say it again..."sex is the glue"...if spouse's can't get back into banging each other after infidelity then forget about it!


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> Wazza, I fully understand. Its hard, damn hard, to think about leaving one's family even though they aren't the ones that didn't care enough to keep from destroying it in the first place.
> 
> I too thought about staying until they were old enough. I just couldn't do it. I understand why you would want to stay. Hope everything works out the way you want. In your corner my man.


Its all good now, but you know how it is...you think back....and there are times when its like it was yesterday, not 25 years ago. 

There were times I just couldn't walk through the door at night. I used to go and walk beside a river near where we lived. There were times when I walked through the door, saw her, and just had to turn around and walk out again. Usually went down to the same river.

Right now I work just down the road from where her affair started. I walk right over the first place they kissed on the way to work. It doesn't hurt any more, but it used to hurt like hell.

Vellocet, you and I are often on opposite sides of the reconciliation discussion, but if we ever were to meet for a beer I bet we would have rather a lot in common.


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## Archangel2

Pilotranger - In case you are still lurking here, I hope you are doing ok.


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