# What to do?



## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

Long time lurker, first time poster. 

My marriage seems to be in a rough patch. My wife and I have been together for 14 yrs married for 7. We have a HD/LD relationship, me being the HD. Sex has been an issue since before we were married. I have talked with her about what sex means to me (love, affection, and appreciation) but her attitude about sex doesn't change. 

The real issue now is, she says I don't give her enough non-sexual attention. But, the animosity that has built from her lack of trying in the bedroom makes it had for me. I feel as though even if I give her everything she asks for, nothing will change for me.

My question is, what should I do? Keep trying and hoping for the best or withdraw from her and make her come to me?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How's doing the same thing over and over and over again working out for you?

Have you read the "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" or "No More Mr. nice Guy"? Maybe start with those, and start changing the dynamic in your relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Likewise, she is probably wary of getting her non-sexual attention. She likely has resentment built up as well towards you. 

If you can both agree to work on this you will need to move forward with the understanding that both of you have resentment towards each other that needs to be healed. It can't be healed unless both of you are willing to work on this. If just one person is working on it the resentment is going to double. 

Over the past year I've had to start being explicit about what I need from my husband. Many years of hoping he would just read my mind didn't work out so well. 

Trust is built when you are able to express your need to your spouse and they respond by meeting that need. When one spouse feels their needs are being met they become more giving. Generally speaking, of course. 

Where sex is concerned - I didn't think I would be okay with scheduled sex, but it's actually been pretty nice. I have a higher drive than my DH. I've found that knowing we'll be together on Wednesday (of course he has to follow through) is much better than not knowing when the next time will be.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Out of curiosity, did your wife date anyone before you? If so, do you have an idea of what type of sex life she had before you? By any chance, did she date people that were jerks, aloof, dark and/or exciting?


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

PBear said:


> How's doing the same thing over and over and over again working out for you?
> 
> *Have you read the "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" or "No More Mr. nice Guy"?* Maybe start with those, and start changing the dynamic in your relationship.
> 
> ...


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

Scarlett, thanks for the reply. 
I have been very explicit with her about what I need from her. She treats my requests with honest interest at the time of discussion, but when sex comes, it's back to a business/duty style. The real issue for me is not that she won't have sex with me, it's that she treats it as a chore. I don't think scheduling sex would fix that. I really want her to want me.
We have had discussions about sex drive and when it comes to her, she states that she has NO sex drive. Ever. No fantasies and never thinks about sex (not even about others). Can this be true?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

What was she like prior to dating you - assuming she was like this from day 1? She could have a hormonal imbalance that is affecting her libido. Alternatively, and this can be painful to hear, she may have never been into you from day one and saw you as a stable provider.


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

Plan,
She was with another man prior to me. Since we started dating early in high school, neither of us have really dated. And no, I don't think she believes the other guy was a jerk, contrary tor my beliefs.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

circa, then you really don't know what you have on your hands then. If you two were dating since early high school (10th grade?) and she never showed interest in sex, then there is definitely something off there. There are people who are A-sexual and have zero sex drive from day one. But another thought would be whether she was a victim of CSA. That could explain a lack of interest in sex.

She should go to the dr's to see if her hormones are normal first before you look into too many other areas.


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What was she like prior to dating you - assuming she was like this from day 1? She could have a hormonal imbalance that is affecting her libido. Alternatively, and this can be painful to hear, she may have never been into you from day one and saw you as a stable provider.


We had sex very often for the first couple of years. She moved away to college a year before me. That was the beginning of the sexual drop off. It was understandable at the time, but new excuses have come up in every different phase of our relationship. From not living together to people living with us to not being married to latex allergy to pregnancy to having a child in the house etc...


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

She talked to the doctor (reluctantly) and the doc told her to try a homeopathic remedy. No hormone checking. The experience was humiliating to her and getting her to go to a real dr to check hormones is out of the question at this point, because she says - I am the one with the problem, why should she do everything?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Circa84 said:


> We had sex very often for the first couple of years. She moved away to college a year before me. That was the beginning of the sexual drop off. It was understandable at the time, but new excuses have come up in every different phase of our relationship. From not living together to people living with us to not being married to latex allergy to pregnancy to having a child in the house etc...


OK, then what happened at college? That is where something changed. Still think a hormone check is needed, but if you had a regular sex life prior to her going to college and it then fizzled after that, then something happened. Either she met someone else but settled for you, she was raped, she became highly promiscuous and she feels guilt/shame over it or she even had her hormones go out of wack in college. Is she showing signs of an early menopause?

Do you communicate about this at all? How old are you?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She's got a pretty good point. She's ok with your sex life. You're not going anywhere. So what's in it to her to move out of her comfort zone?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Circa84 (Apr 15, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OK, then what happened at college? That is where something changed. Still think a hormone check is needed, but if you had a regular sex life prior to her going to college and it then fizzled after that, then something happened. Either she met someone else but settled for you, she was raped, she became highly promiscuous and she feels guilt/shame over it or she even had her hormones go out of wack in college. Is she showing signs of an early menopause?
> 
> Do you communicate about this at all? How old are you?


29. I don't know or think anything actually happened at college. But it might have been a convenient excuse not to have sex since we weren't around each other much. Yes, I have talked about this and her childhood and she says nothing happened. Just that she doesn't think about sex. 
It's hard to talk to her about this stuff since she gets extremely defensive.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

You have to be committed to do something drastic enough to force her to be willing to change. That is what the MAP in MMSLP is all about. Make you desirous to other women. The problem is if that doesn't work, you are out of optons and if sex is important, as it is to most normal folks, then D has to eventually be on the table.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So the issue isn't that she denies sex, it's that you want her to desire it. That's tough, because that's not who she is, so it's not like she's doing it to punish you. You can lay down whatever consequences you want but it doesn't change who she is.

Imagine that she wants a mmf threesome; this doesn't turn you on but you agree. Then she's upset because it didn't turn you on; see the problem? She has no sex drive. Period. But it seems like you knew this and married her anyway so why would you expect change?

This is who she is. You can't demand that someone with a low/no drive desire sex anymore then you can demand a high drive stop wanting sex.

Sorry you're here; I couldn't live like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> So the issue isn't that she denies sex, it's that you want her to desire it. That's tough, because that's not who she is, so it's not like she's doing it to punish you. You can lay down whatever consequences you want but it doesn't change who she is.
> 
> Imagine that she wants a mmf threesome; this doesn't turn you on but you agree. Then she's upset because it didn't turn you on; see the problem? *She has no sex drive. Period.* But it seems like you knew this and married her anyway so why would you expect change?
> 
> ...


You may be right and the frequent sex before she went off to college may have been her attempts to reel him in. However, what if her true nature was to enjoy sex and then she went to college and...changed. Occum's razor - given what we know - would indicate that she never had a sex drive and lied to the OP to trap him via the frequent sex up to the time she went off to college. However, I would not discount the latter scenario until the OP gets his closure on this.

What is the wife getting defensive about? It is because she feels like the OP thinks she isn't good enough sexually? Or is she hiding something? Or is it a hormone thing and the low hormones are affecting her thinking and thus making her defensive?

Regardless of which one it is, nothing changes unless the OP forces a change. Status quo will remain until he does something different.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You may be right and the frequent sex before she went off to college may have been her attempts to reel him in. However, what if her true nature was to enjoy sex and then she went to college and...changed. Occum's razor - given what we know - would indicate that she never had a sex drive and lied to the OP to trap him via the frequent sex up to the time she went off to college. However, I would not discount the latter scenario until the OP gets his closure on this.
> 
> What is the wife getting defensive about? It is because she feels like the OP thinks she isn't good enough sexually? Or is she hiding something? Or is it a hormone thing and the low hormones are affecting her thinking and thus making her defensive?
> 
> Regardless of which one it is, nothing changes unless the OP forces a change. Status quo will remain until he does something different.


If that's true, and it could be, she must have been faking it pretty well. But I find this to be a mistake a lot of men, particularly young men, make a lot. If they're getting sex they assume their woman is into sex, but we know that's not always true. Was she enthusiastic or did she simply have sex?

Either way he says she went off to college and it dropped off enough for him to notice her waning interest, so he knew before he actually married her. That's how I read it, but I could be wrong.

Either way I suppose he doesn't stand to lose much by forcing the issue, as long as he knows that could end the marriage, which he's said he's not ready for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uglee70 (Jan 2, 2009)

Circa84 said:


> Long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> My marriage seems to be in a rough patch. My wife and I have been together for 14 yrs married for 7. We have a HD/LD relationship, me being the HD. Sex has been an issue since before we were married. I have talked with her about what sex means to me (love, affection, and appreciation) but her but her attitude about sex doesn't change
> 
> ...


Been there done that and it's a situation that will not change quickly or drastically. I have managed to overcome the problem with my wife to an extent that I am now quite happy with our sexual relationship. 
In your post you have given me everything I needed to know. I recognized my own problem almost word for word in your problem. Let me give you some info, and remember, this is based solely on what I have experienced and learned from my own marriage and is by no means the opinion of an expert.

1. _I have talked with her about what sex means to me..._

Believe me, she doesn't care...not in the slightest. If she has a reason for not wanting sex with YOU, then there isn't a reason in the world that will make her care about why you do want sex. It's her right to say 'no' and her decision is the right decision for HER. You can't change that.

2._The real issue now is, she says I don't give her enough non-sexual attention_.

BINGO!! There is your answer my friend. You have to look very deeply into what she said right there. She wants to know without any shadow of a doubt that she is your princess. But do it subtly and spontaneously. Buy here a rose 2 or 3 times a year, a card that says 'I love you'. Tell her when she gets dressed in the morning that she looks elegant, stylish or very pretty in that top. Listen, listen, listen to her. She doesn't expect you to have all the answers but a sympathetic ear and a supporting shoulder to lean on is all she wants sometimes. Give up the things you like doing to do some things she likes doing.

3. _My question is, what should I do? Keep trying and hoping for the best or withdraw from her and make her come to me?_

NO!!! If you withdraw, you BOTH lose. 

Now, don't take this following bit the wrong way, I am not judging you, I am just saying what I know about me and my experience, but neither her, nor her LD is the problem. The problem is YOU and she made that as clear as day when she said you don't give her enough "non-sexual" (emotional) attention.
Below is a post that I made on another page in this forum. It's basically a microcosm of my change in attitude towards my wife, marriage, life and job. I started about 3 years ago and the changes are almost beyond measure. I am now very happy with my life, my job and my sex life (sex has gone from once every 4 or 5 weeks to once or twice a week and I don't even initiate it!). 
I hope it can help and if you like, feel free to ask me any questions.

*I had a slightly similar situation to yours some years back, but not as bad...we had sex twice in a seven moth period and for most of our relationship previously, once a month at best for about 7 years.

I was extremely frustrated, often cranky and resentful, and borderline depressed at our lack of intimacy. Nothing I could do could get her in the mood. She simply had no desire to change ANYTHING about our (her) sex life. And then one day I realized what I was doing wrong. I was trying to change her and her attitude. WRONG!!

I had to change...and I did.

It turned not only our marriage around, but my entire life. I simply started following a few rules that I thought were important.

1. Attitude is EVERYTHING.
2. Expect less.
3. Give more.
4. Accept everything for what it is.
5. You don't find happiness...you create it.

I stopped expecting, or even hoping for sex on that, or any particular day.
I focused on being grateful for having a good wife who loves me.
I would spontaneously buy her a rose, or a card, or even just send a text to say I love you. (But not so often that it lost it's element of surprise).
I accepted that she would rather talk and cuddle and not have me wanting sex all the time. I accepted everything about her, no questions asked.
I jumped out of bed each morning at 5am with my first thoughts being only energetic, positive and professional...nothing negative whatsoever.
And I am happy. Happy and grateful for everything I have. I have a job, a home and a family. I am not cold, hungry, oppressed or have ever been at war. LIFE IS GOOD. But it can be taken away at any time...so APPRECIATE IT NOW!!

That has been my philosophy. I worked hard at all of it. It took over a year, but my attitude rubbed off on her. I never told her about my new outlook (mostly I did it for me anyway) but she responded better than I could have ever hoped. We are both happier, more successful and having more sex WOOOHOOO!!

Just remember, you can never make anyone change their ways. They have to make that decision themselves. You can only change yourself and you will be amazed at the response from everybody that is involved in your life. Those that don't respond get left behind, it's that simple. 

*


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Uglee70 said:


> Been there done that and it's a situation that will not change quickly or drastically. I have managed to overcome the problem with my wife to an extent that I am now quite happy with our sexual relationship.
> In your post you have given me everything I needed to know. I recognized my own problem almost word for word in your problem. Let me give you some info, and remember, this is based solely on what I have experienced and learned from my own marriage and is by no means the opinion of an expert.
> 
> 1. _I have talked with her about what sex means to me..._
> ...



What a wonderful story! I'm so glad things worked out for you guys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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