# Decided No More Sex, Then Changed Mind?



## grayhound

tl/dr: I married someone I didn’t have chemistry with, asked for a separation but reconsidering. I can’t imagine wanting to have sex with him again. Has anyone here been in this situation then actually had sex?

I’ve been with my H for 20 years. He’s my best friend, which I think roughly translates to we had zero chemistry but still forced the sex. 

I suspect he’s on the spectrum since logic is the filter through which everything flows. He feverishly argues about everything & can never see my perspective & refuses to do anything for me unless it makes sense to him. If he doesn’t think something needs to be cleaned, he won’t do it. If he doesn’t want to bathe, he won’t. Or if he thinks his phone ringer should stay off, it stays off. Doesn’t matter if I ask, he won’t do it unless he sees a valid reason. Later on his therapist would call this “him looking for unconditional love.”

He let me down in a huge way & I could feel the moment I became indifferent. It’s like my self esteem said “nope, this is bottom. We can’t take a lifetime of this”. I disengaged & stopped getting naked in front of him. That was 2 years ago.
Then a year ago I woke up with a rage I have never encountered before. Something in me said, no more being a doormat. No more making everyone else happy. Your life has value and you need to fight for it. 

And overnight, I started standing up for myself. Have been going on a spiritual journey to find my purpose, passion & meaning. I lost 50 lbs and finally, the future seems like it might not suck so much. It was completely life changing. What I encountered over the last year, within myself, starting before covid, has been indescribable.

My people pleasing tendencies included the drinking & porn watching I did to be able to have sex with my husband. I always told myself I didn’t believe in romance, I could get myself off, I didn’t want to stress a man out with the foreplay I wanted or all the details of what felt good to me. I don’t know why, I would just drink, get myself close, he would finish and I thought, great, mission accomplished.

So, I got an apartment, was working up the courage to file, told him I wanted a separation & this shook him. He got into counseling, has begun meditating & is semi-working on himself. I felt obligated to give this another try.

My new counselor believes he is autistic & she thinks she can help me bridge the gap in our communication and I would learn what his limitations are in this journey and how to deal with them. 

So, maybe some chores will get done & I will be heard and I will learn how to talk to him, that’s all a plus. She said that not wanting to have sex is normal, but over time that could change.

Deep down, I don’t feel this aspect changing at all. I was never really excited to touch him, our foreplay doesn’t exist. The thought of teaching him how to touch me, in itself, is a turn-off. He can’t read cues, he’s not in tune with me at all. I realize now it was all me, until insertion.

I know this sounds awful. And I’ve been truthful with him since day one about the chemistry not being there. I chalked it up to his lack of bathing. But the sad, pathetic people pleaser in me just pushed forward & married him. Because we had great conversations, things in common & I thought he was a “good person”.

Ladies... has anyone here said “I absolutely cannot have sex with him again” and then it magically happened?


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## In Absentia

I'm not a lady, but I know now that my wife did it for me in the last years of our marriage. She told me. I feel awful about it and also angry that she did not told me before. She did it to keep the family together. Although I understand the reason, I feel let down and humiliated. So, please don't do it to yourself and to your husband. Leave this marriage and try and live a happy life from now on. I don't see how you can magically desire your husband. You never did and you never will.


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## VladDracul

Here's my thing Grayhound. You didn't lose 50lbs to find purpose, passion & meaning. You gained 50 lbs earlier to fetter your old man's desire for you and quit pestering you for sex. (in my case it wouldn't have worked because I think a little meat on the bones is sexy. But I doubt if most women would lose interest in me anyway )
Jokes aside, why do you two stay together? I understand how your desire for the dude hit the skids. I've known many women who lost desire for their SO and regained it with someone else. "It" didn't just magically happen again. You needed to get laid and he was available. I hate liver and onions to but if I'm hungry enough and right in front of me........
You and him both are wasting your lives trying to pretend you have a marriage. You don't. Now tell us the real reason you're hedging on staying together and no horse shyt about being "best friends". Your not that either. What are you getting out of it that's worth having to tolerate sex with a man cause you to be as dry as the Mojave Desert and sick at the stomach at the same time. Judging by the length of your marriage, I expect you're still young enough to have plenty of mileage left to enjoy regular visits to Disneyland with different person.


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## joannacroc

Personally, no. I think when the switch is flipped, the factory is closed. When I was in a relationship years ago and I was younger the person I was with and broke up with wanted to have sex one last time for closure, but I couldn't physically do it. I started panicking and felt nauseated when I tried. 

I have heard on TAM of couples though who have both committed to working on issues with sex together and eventually it has gotten better. But it takes a desire to do that from both parties.


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## Sfort

joannacroc said:


> Personally, no. I think when the switch is flipped, the factory is closed. When I was in a relationship years ago and I was younger the person I was with and broke up with wanted to have sex one last time for closure, but I couldn't physically do it. I started panicking and felt nauseated when I tried.


"One for the road."


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## theloveofmylife

grayhound said:


> She said that not wanting to have sex is normal,


No, it's not. Not in a "real" marriage. Get a better counselor.


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## Openminded

No, it doesn’t magically come back. Why would it?


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## Al_Bundy

I think you have the answer to your question. But I'm with Vlad, why are you considering staying with someone you've never been hot for and has bathing issues?


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## Prodigal

grayhound said:


> Ladies... has anyone here said “I absolutely cannot have sex with him again” and then it magically happened?


Nope. Once I was done, I was done. That deeper emotional connection was dead. And with that, the thought of anything physical went out the window. Considering the length of time you haven't had that certain "spark" with this man, I'd say it's a hard no in your situation.

Why bother? Get on with your life and find someone who takes regular baths/showers, isn't on the spectrum, and is sexually compatible. Seriously.


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## Luckylucky

You really have to stop speculating that he’s on the spectrum and move on. Each new post you make is the same story retold in a different way. I hope you find peace it must be terrible living like this.
Is the new counsellor better than the last one?


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## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> Here's my thing Grayhound. You didn't lose 50lbs to find purpose, passion & meaning. You gained 50 lbs earlier to fetter your old man's desire for you and quit pestering you for sex. (in my case it wouldn't have worked because I think a little meat on the bones is sexy. But I doubt if most women would lose interest in me anyway )
> Jokes aside, why do you two stay together? I understand how your desire for the dude hit the skids. I've known many women who lost desire for their SO and regained it with someone else. "It" didn't just magically happen again. You needed to get laid and he was available. I hate liver and onions to but if I'm hungry enough and right in front of me........
> You and him both are wasting your lives trying to pretend you have a marriage. You don't. Now tell us the real reason you're hedging on staying together and no horse shyt about being "best friends". Your not that either. What are you getting out of it that's worth having to tolerate sex with a man cause you to be as dry as the Mojave Desert and sick at the stomach at the same time. Judging by the length of your marriage, I expect you're still young enough to have plenty of mileage left to enjoy regular visits to Disneyland with different person.


The 50 lbs came off because I decided that I had to change something because I hated my life. He’s always dat


In Absentia said:


> I'm not a lady, but I know now that my wife did it for me in the last years of our marriage. She told me. I feel awful about it and also angry that she did not told me before. She did it to keep the family together. Although I understand the reason, I feel let down and humiliated. So, please don't do it to yourself and to your husband. Leave this marriage and try and live a happy life from now on. I don't see how you can magically desire your husband. You never did and you never will.


Thank you for sharing. I’m so sorry you had to go through that.

I’ve been searching forums for advice on not wanting to sleep with my husband. 75% of the articles and posts from psychologists and counselors tell the women to have sex with their husbands, even if they don’t want to. That post-orgasm you’ll feel better, more connected, he will be sweeter. It might fix everything.

so, we’re taking that advice. Mostly because we hate the thought of getting a divorce and if the husband still loves us, there must be some something wrong with us.
That’s what I’m trying to navigate now.


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## grayhound

joannacroc said:


> Personally, no. I think when the switch is flipped, the factory is closed. When I was in a relationship years ago and I was younger the person I was with and broke up with wanted to have sex one last time for closure, but I couldn't physically do it. I started panicking and felt nauseated when I tried.
> 
> I have heard on TAM of couples though who have both committed to working on issues with sex together and eventually it has gotten better. But it takes a desire to do that from both parties.


Thank you for your response.

I’m hoping to get a woman’s perspective on this.

my counselor said that I lost the trust in the marriage and that’s why I’m not open to being physically intimate. She said it’s normal & it can come back. So, I’m just trying to see if anyone has cleared this hurdle before.

my gut says I can’t do it again, but I have to try. I don’t know why, but I have to try.


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## grayhound

theloveofmylife said:


> No, it's not. Not in a "real" marriage. Get a better counselor.


She said that when the woman doesn’t feel safe in the marriage, she can’t be vulnerable, thus she can’t put out.

I believe this to be true. Just putting my feelers out to see if anyone else has encountered this.


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## grayhound

Openminded said:


> No, it doesn’t magically come back. Why would it?


I keep reading that it can come back. For men it’s all visual, for women it’s about feeling safe, loved and all that stuff.

I was just wondering if anyone had navigated their way out of this ditch.


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## grayhound

Prodigal said:


> Nope. Once I was done, I was done. That deeper emotional connection was dead. And with that, the thought of anything physical went out the window. Considering the length of time you haven't had that certain "spark" with this man, I'd say it's a hard no in your situation.
> 
> Why bother? Get on with your life and find someone who takes regular baths/showers, isn't on the spectrum, and is sexually compatible. Seriously.


Is it really that easy? You just divide your assets and boom, find a new partner that’s compatible? I’d really like to think that. It seems far more 

I keep distilling our problems down via communication and therapy. This is the symptom of years of neglect. He claims he’s going to totally step up his game, clean slate, don’t give up. I’m mostly looking towards the door, but I’m still searching for answers before I just completely give up.

I really appreciate you answering.


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## grayhound

Luckylucky said:


> You really have to stop speculating that he’s on the spectrum and move on. Each new post you make is the same story retold in a different way. I hope you find peace it must be terrible living like this.
> Is the new counsellor better than the last one?


I was asking about a different facet to my saga. I need to turn over every rock before making a move. I was hoping to get a woman’s perspective on navigating the loss of the spark. That would help me with this.

this counselor was great. I finally feel heard and understood. She specializes in being married to someone on the spectrum. She says I have assumed his intentions & lack of empathy all wrong. She would help me translate all the misunderstandings so I can make a solid decision of whether to stay or go. Even if he isn’t autistic, he may be logic-brain heavy. So any emotional situation, request, hint, non-verbal cue etc runs through that filter. We are essentially speaking two different languages. I’m willing and curious, frankly, to see it through. When someone rattles off how you feel and perfectly articulates what is missing in your marriage without you prompting anything, it’s very validating. And comforting.


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## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> Here's my thing Grayhound. You didn't lose 50lbs to find purpose, passion & meaning. You gained 50 lbs earlier to fetter your old man's desire for you and quit pestering you for sex. (in my case it wouldn't have worked because I think a little meat on the bones is sexy. But I doubt if most women would lose interest in me anyway )
> Jokes aside, why do you two stay together? I understand how your desire for the dude hit the skids. I've known many women who lost desire for their SO and regained it with someone else. "It" didn't just magically happen again. You needed to get laid and he was available. I hate liver and onions to but if I'm hungry enough and right in front of me........
> You and him both are wasting your lives trying to pretend you have a marriage. You don't. Now tell us the real reason you're hedging on staying together and no horse shyt about being "best friends". Your not that either. What are you getting out of it that's worth having to tolerate sex with a man cause you to be as dry as the Mojave Desert and sick at the stomach at the same time. Judging by the length of your marriage, I expect you're still young enough to have plenty of mileage left to enjoy regular visits to Disneyland with different person.


Yikes...

um... let me unpack this.

I’m on my phone & it may have posted a reply to you, ooops. Phone site is clunky.

I gained 50 lbs because I love food. And he’s a chubby chaser, so it worked out. But damn, I’ve been hit on since losing this chub and I have no idea what to do with that. Been way too long. Maybe that’s why I gained it.

I think the sex was tolerable in my mind until I was 40. We watched a lot of porn. I hit 40, the girls started looking really young and uninterested in the pounding they were receiving and it really turned me off. I drank more and realized I was forcing the whole mess. I’ve always had a high libido. That has never been a problem. I just woke up one day and said “I wonder what making love is? With eye contact, kissing & sweet foreplay. Without nipple clamps and vodka. That sounds nice”.

why have I stayed? because I truly believed that marrying your best friend was good. That the sex goes away and you are left with friendship. I told myself if I can just tolerate another 15 years of this, he and I will live it up with all of our investments, doing what we love, making each other laugh well into our 90’s.

what actually happened is my best friend left me alone at the dentist, failed to answer his phone when I needed him, blamed me for bothering him then I realized he might not care about me & I might not want to entertain his loins. Then someone said autism, that he’s not a bad guy, just terrible with emotions blah blah blah. And I should give this one last chance before I dismantle our lives because we laugh at each others’ jokes until we wet ourselves.

there has to be a sad german word to describe This mess.


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## Prodigal

grayhound said:


> Is it really that easy? You just divide your assets and boom, find a new partner that’s compatible?


I apologize for my confusion, but where did I mention division of assets or just going "boom" and finding a new partner? Please clarify how you deduced that's what I posted. Because right now I'm quite confused as to how you thought I said anything remotely like that ....


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## aine

grayhound said:


> Thank you for your response.
> 
> I’m hoping to get a woman’s perspective on this.
> 
> my counselor said that I lost the trust in the marriage and that’s why I’m not open to being physically intimate. She said it’s normal & it can come back. So, I’m just trying to see if anyone has cleared this hurdle before.
> 
> my gut says I can’t do it again, but I have to try. I don’t know why, but I have to try.


it sounds like you should never have married each other to begin with. You have put up with a lot, (not bathing etc). You also say he let you down big time. Woman keep going back over and over to resolve issues and give it one more shot but when they have crossed the line of no return, there is no way that you will ever want to sleep with him, put up with him. You may co-exist but it will be a friends/room mates scenario. When you are done, you are done.


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## Prodigal

Prodigal said:


> Why bother? Get on with your life and find someone who takes regular baths/showers, isn't on the spectrum, and is sexually compatible. Seriously.


Here is ^^what^^ I said. Why did I post this? You made it explicitly clear that you had no sexual passion or deep connection with your husband. In fact, you intimated that he doesn't bathe very often. Look, your husband sounds like he is in dire need of professional help. Possibly medication. But all I can do is respond to what you have posted.

To wit:



grayhound said:


> we had zero chemistry but still forced the sex.


That indicates to me that your sex life was DOA. I still have no idea whatsoever how you deduced I commented on division of assets. 

The thing is, YOU are posting here; not him. You aren't happy. You want your life to change. Will his life change? I don't know. This isn't about him, it's about you. Please realize you can remain friends and separate amicably. When I left my husband, due to his escalating alcoholism, I made it clear as to why I was leaving. We remained amicable. He chose to drink. I chose to detach. No harm, no foul.


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## VladDracul

grayhound said:


> But damn, I’ve been hit on since losing this chub and I have no idea what to do with that. Been way too long. Maybe that’s why I gained it.


I think its likely because youre built like a brick house, with or without the 50 lbs and just look like you could put something on a man that Ajax wouldn't take off. Some woman just have that aura. Anywho, I've known, and known, any number of women who thought marrying your best friend was a safe way to go and when sex goes away and you are left with friendship. Doesn't quite work that way. You're best friend in not necessarily someone you want to sleep with night after night and the least fun thing you can do is having perennial sex with a best friend you have no desire for. By your own admission, the "sex" was never really there to begin with and in your case, you used porn and alcohol to jump start and tolerate what you were doing. By your actions, you committed yourself to restricting sex to someone your not interested in having sex with. I mean face it. How long has it been since you've had a good lay with the eye contact, kissing & sweet foreplay; where your desire for each other engages your imagination and ignites sexy thoughts far beyond what watching porn could possibly do?
But you're on the money Milady with, "what actually happened is my best friend left me alone at the dentist, failed to answer his phone when I needed him, blamed me for bothering him then I realized he might not care about me & I might not want to entertain his loins". It ain't much of a stretch to surmise he's reacting to your rejection. Ain't a dude I've every met that was happy when his wife lost interest and refuses to "give it up" or reluctantly provides duty sex. But you know as well as I do, when a woman loses interest, it never comes back. You may laugh at each others jokes until you wet your pants but laughing will be the only reason you wet your pants.
I'm reading between the lines of your post and hear so much it ain't funny. You've got a bear to deal with. Bad decisions at the outset lead to painful decisions at the end. I don't see how you're going to be able to engineer a win-win outcome out of you're situation Grayhound.


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## DownByTheRiver

grayhound said:


> tl/dr: I married someone I didn’t have chemistry with, asked for a separation but reconsidering. I can’t imagine wanting to have sex with him again. Has anyone here been in this situation then actually had sex?
> 
> I’ve been with my H for 20 years. He’s my best friend, which I think roughly translates to we had zero chemistry but still forced the sex.
> 
> I suspect he’s on the spectrum since logic is the filter through which everything flows. He feverishly argues about everything & can never see my perspective & refuses to do anything for me unless it makes sense to him. If he doesn’t think something needs to be cleaned, he won’t do it. If he doesn’t want to bathe, he won’t. Or if he thinks his phone ringer should stay off, it stays off. Doesn’t matter if I ask, he won’t do it unless he sees a valid reason. Later on his therapist would call this “him looking for unconditional love.”
> 
> He let me down in a huge way & I could feel the moment I became indifferent. It’s like my self esteem said “nope, this is bottom. We can’t take a lifetime of this”. I disengaged & stopped getting naked in front of him. That was 2 years ago.
> Then a year ago I woke up with a rage I have never encountered before. Something in me said, no more being a doormat. No more making everyone else happy. Your life has value and you need to fight for it.
> 
> And overnight, I started standing up for myself. Have been going on a spiritual journey to find my purpose, passion & meaning. I lost 50 lbs and finally, the future seems like it might not suck so much. It was completely life changing. What I encountered over the last year, within myself, starting before covid, has been indescribable.
> 
> My people pleasing tendencies included the drinking & porn watching I did to be able to have sex with my husband. I always told myself I didn’t believe in romance, I could get myself off, I didn’t want to stress a man out with the foreplay I wanted or all the details of what felt good to me. I don’t know why, I would just drink, get myself close, he would finish and I thought, great, mission accomplished.
> 
> So, I got an apartment, was working up the courage to file, told him I wanted a separation & this shook him. He got into counseling, has begun meditating & is semi-working on himself. I felt obligated to give this another try.
> 
> My new counselor believes he is autistic & she thinks she can help me bridge the gap in our communication and I would learn what his limitations are in this journey and how to deal with them.
> 
> So, maybe some chores will get done & I will be heard and I will learn how to talk to him, that’s all a plus. She said that not wanting to have sex is normal, but over time that could change.
> 
> Deep down, I don’t feel this aspect changing at all. I was never really excited to touch him, our foreplay doesn’t exist. The thought of teaching him how to touch me, in itself, is a turn-off. He can’t read cues, he’s not in tune with me at all. I realize now it was all me, until insertion.
> 
> I know this sounds awful. And I’ve been truthful with him since day one about the chemistry not being there. I chalked it up to his lack of bathing. But the sad, pathetic people pleaser in me just pushed forward & married him. Because we had great conversations, things in common & I thought he was a “good person”.
> 
> Ladies... has anyone here said “I absolutely cannot have sex with him again” and then it magically happened?


It doesn't sound awful. I don't know why you married him to begin with but now you have a lot of reasons not to stay married. He doesn't have an ounce of empathy apparently for whatever reason. It's his way or the highway. I wouldn't stay married to him and I don't care if he's autistic or not because you need to be able to have some compromise with your marital partner. I'm sure he's in a dead panic because this doesn't fit into his plan but I would not worry about that and I certainly would not expect a big change out of him that was anything lasting no matter what the therapist says. If he really is autistic, that's not going to change. He's already completely dug in and unwilling to compromise or do anything different so whether that's autism or obsessive compulsive, who cares? You only have this one life at least is who you are now and I certainly wouldn't waste it in this dead end relationship. 

You'll probably have to do all the getting a lawyer and divorcing and more or less force him into it and do it against his will. Meditating isn't going to make him want to help you with housework or make him be happy doing anything your way. This is your life and you need to take control of it. You are never really into him physically so you certainly can't expect that to change.


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## Openminded

grayhound said:


> I keep reading that it can come back. For men it’s all visual, for women it’s about feeling safe, loved and all that stuff.
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone had navigated their way out of this ditch.


It might possibly come back if it had ever existed to begin with (that’s not common though) but the idea of it appearing for the first time, after 20 years of marriage, is very remote.


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## theloveofmylife

grayhound said:


> She said that when the woman doesn’t feel safe in the marriage, she can’t be vulnerable, thus she can’t put out.
> 
> I believe this to be true. Just putting my feelers out to see if anyone else has encountered this.


Why don't you feel safe?


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## grayhound

theloveofmylife said:


> Why don't you feel safe?


Because he had a tendency to turn his ringer off and there were times I couldn’t get ahold of him on top of a string of inconsiderate things he claims are now in the past. That I should forgive and move on.


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## grayhound

Openminded said:


> It might possibly come back if it had ever existed to begin with (that’s not common though) but the idea of it appearing for the first time, after 20 years of marriage, is very remote.


This is what I needed to hear. Thank you.

I’m having a really hard time separating my feelings of friendship for him from that next stage of love and I’m not sure why.


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## grayhound

DownByTheRiver said:


> It doesn't sound awful. I don't know why you married him to begin with but now you have a lot of reasons not to stay married. He doesn't have an ounce of empathy apparently for whatever reason. It's his way or the highway. I wouldn't stay married to him and I don't care if he's autistic or not because you need to be able to have some compromise with your marital partner. I'm sure he's in a dead panic because this doesn't fit into his plan but I would not worry about that and I certainly would not expect a big change out of him that was anything lasting no matter what the therapist says. If he really is autistic, that's not going to change. He's already completely dug in and unwilling to compromise or do anything different so whether that's autism or obsessive compulsive, who cares? You only have this one life at least is who you are now and I certainly wouldn't waste it in this dead end relationship.
> 
> You'll probably have to do all the getting a lawyer and divorcing and more or less force him into it and do it against his will. Meditating isn't going to make him want to help you with housework or make him be happy doing anything your way. This is your life and you need to take control of it. You are never really into him physically so you certainly can't expect that to change.


I married him because, at the time, he felt safe (my home life was a mess), we had a lot in common, I thought he was a good person and we genuinely had a great time. I told myself that I was being shallow (I thought of the movie Roxanne) if I didn’t consider him. That if all the other boxes were checked, the sex would come. I thought of arranged marriages working out. I had nobody to talk to about it.

we dated and cohabitated for about 7 years before getting married. Things seemed better before we got married. Once money was combined and the wife/husband label was added, I feel like the expectations started & it fell apart. He never took care of his car, for example. As the wife I somehow felt responsible to take that over. And it all started to pile up & up. I took on more reaponsibilities and chores that benefited him directly. He did very little for me. But then he would argue with me when I asked. I chalked it up to him just being smart & above “chores”. But when he started neglecting me & my feelings and then just flat out neglected me, it was the last straw.

I wish I could understand why I think putting up with so much is okay. I desperately try to see the beauty in people and focus on it.

He is asking for another chance & claims he has changed. That he lacked emotional maturity & is working on it. I should just say no way, but something is keeping me here. I have no idea, other than fear of the next step, why.

I really appreciate your input.


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## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> I think its likely because youre built like a brick house, with or without the 50 lbs and just look like you could put something on a man that Ajax wouldn't take off. Some woman just have that aura. Anywho, I've known, and known, any number of women who thought marrying your best friend was a safe way to go and when sex goes away and you are left with friendship. Doesn't quite work that way. You're best friend in not necessarily someone you want to sleep with night after night and the least fun thing you can do is having perennial sex with a best friend you have no desire for. By your own admission, the "sex" was never really there to begin with and in your case, you used porn and alcohol to jump start and tolerate what you were doing. By your actions, you committed yourself to restricting sex to someone your not interested in having sex with. I mean face it. How long has it been since you've had a good lay with the eye contact, kissing & sweet foreplay; where your desire for each other engages your imagination and ignites sexy thoughts far beyond what watching porn could possibly do?
> But you're on the money Milady with, "what actually happened is my best friend left me alone at the dentist, failed to answer his phone when I needed him, blamed me for bothering him then I realized he might not care about me & I might not want to entertain his loins". It ain't much of a stretch to surmise he's reacting to your rejection. Ain't a dude I've every met that was happy when his wife lost interest and refuses to "give it up" or reluctantly provides duty sex. But you know as well as I do, when a woman loses interest, it never comes back. You may laugh at each others jokes until you wet your pants but laughing will be the only reason you wet your pants.
> I'm reading between the lines of your post and hear so much it ain't funny. You've got a bear to deal with. Bad decisions at the outset lead to painful decisions at the end. I don't see how you're going to be able to engineer a win-win outcome out of you're situation Grayhound.


Ajax? Really... Lord. Thanks for assuming I’m a drunk and spilling out of the spandex at a theme park, wide load with the plague kind of gal. 

all the advice I got in my 20’s was marry your best friend. I was just naive. He was the smart one, he thought it would work knowing we were what we were & I trusted his assessment.

Again... I’m a chick, we like to talk things out. Vent. Get opinions. Dudes want to offer solutions & fix things. I’m here in the Ladies Lounge asking the ladies if they were able to jumpstart their sex life from zero.


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## grayhound

Prodigal said:


> why bother? Get on with your life and find someone who takes regular baths/showers, isn't on the spectrum, and is sexually compatible. Seriously.


I was referring to this part of your post. “Get on with your life” means divorce, chaos, dismantling everything we built.

throwing our life into the woodchipper scares the crap out of me. So I want to make darn sure that I investigate every aspect that I can. Spend a ton of time on it.

I read that marriages have seasons, things change, they can get better or worse etc. But I am also seeing that if it was never good to begin with, it’s likely to not be good ever.

I’m sorry for the miscommunication, I’m having a hard time getting the quotes to stick as I navigate the mobile site.


----------



## CatholicDad

Sounds like you're equally guilty of turning marital sex into a (non-intimate) circus if you made a habit of watching porn together. Maybe that's just how he is and that's fine but by using this crutch you only prolonged the misery it sounds like.

My take is that God gave us this incredible, wonderful gift which is marital sex and like any beautiful thing is can be quickly destroyed or killed... just like a flower.

So, I imagine you can find orgasmic sex with tons of other guys, but true intimacy... not sure about that. True intimacy isn't based on an illusion of who you think someone is but actually sharing a moment with someone because you know truly who they are and even accept their deficiencies and failings... isn't that what real intimacy is?

Sounds like hubby may have killed intimacy long ago... too bad.


----------



## Prodigal

grayhound said:


> “Get on with your life” means divorce, chaos, dismantling everything we built.


That's what it means for YOU. I got on with my life. I didn't divorce my husband. However, I took back ownership of responsibility for what I could in my own life.


----------



## VladDracul

grayhound said:


> Thanks for assuming I’m a drunk and spilling out of the spandex at a theme park, wide load with the plague kind of gal.


Hey, give me a little credit. I wasn't assuming you're at a theme park or with the plague. Sides that, why are you asking the ladies if they were able to jumpstart their sex life from zero? You already know the answer. The folks telling you its regularly done is giving you disinform........., oh what the hell, they are lying to you. ( I'm trying to avoid the temptation of being overly polite via euphemistic terms) Falling off the wagon for a mattress dance to celebrate the alignment of the planets is not likely an indication you are ready to go from zero to a hundred. Not with him at least. Check out your other options if you really want to jumpstart your sex life.


----------



## Pip’sJourney

grayhound said:


> I was referring to this part of your post. “Get on with your life” means divorce, chaos, dismantling everything we built.
> 
> throwing our life into the woodchipper scares the crap out of me. So I want to make darn sure that I investigate every aspect that I can. Spend a ton of time on it.
> 
> I read that marriages have seasons, things change, they can get better or worse etc. But I am also seeing that if it was never good to begin with, it’s likely to not be good ever.
> 
> I’m sorry for the miscommunication, I’m having a hard time getting the quotes to stick as I navigate the mobile site.


For me it WAS possible to reignite the sex. My situation was a bit different than you. I did have a good sex life with my husband early in our marriage and before. He is also my best friend, very smart and had some ADHD issues. 

I felt like I was doing everything.. we have 3 kids. He would come home and nap.. let me make dinner take care of the kids .. i would get them ready for bed.. check homework.. drive them to lessons etc. I had sex with him but the desire waned.. the hunger left. I felt like I was giving all of me and no one gave crap to me. This is a level of codependency as I see it now. I am a caretaker.. by nature.. a fixer. But as the children grew.. and left(covid brought them back) we started going out again.. dating and I saw the kindness in him.. what originally I fell in love with. I always loved him but what i lacked was that raw lust. I had to find that again.. which I did. Part of this was him coming to me and being vulnerable and wanting to make it work... wanting me. It started there.


----------



## grayhound

Pip’sJourney said:


> For me it WAS possible to reignite the sex. My situation was a bit different than you. I did have a good sex life with my husband early in our marriage and before. He is also my best friend, very smart and had some ADHD issues.
> 
> I felt like I was doing everything.. we have 3 kids. He would come home and nap.. let me make dinner take care of the kids .. i would get them ready for bed.. check homework.. drive them to lessons etc. I had sex with him but the desire waned.. the hunger left. I felt like I was giving all of me and no one gave crap to me. This is a level of codependency as I see it now. I am a caretaker.. by nature.. a fixer. But as the children grew.. and left(covid brought them back) we started going out again.. dating and I saw the kindness in him.. what originally I fell in love with. I always loved him but what i lacked was that raw lust. I had to find that again.. which I did. Part of this was him coming to me and being vulnerable and wanting to make it work... wanting me. It started there.


thank you thank you for your input, this is exactly what I was hoping to read.

how did he show you he wanted you? What do you think started the process? How did you communicate your needs and what made him finally hear you?

I am also a fixer, a people pleaser. I am trying to tease apart how much of our history was me tuning out to make everyone happy & how much of it was genuine affextio. I guess it’s normal for people pleasers to have a moment where they come undone & rage with anger. And now I’m sifting through the rubble trying to figure out what is salvageable.

how angry did you get? How invisible do you feel?I started out feeling like the personal assistant and it just got lonelier & more thankless as the years went by until I snapped.

did you have a moment, a catalyst?

I’d love to hear more if you have the time.


----------



## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> Hey, give me a little credit. I wasn't assuming you're at a theme park or with the plague. Sides that, why are you asking the ladies if they were able to jumpstart their sex life from zero? You already know the answer. The folks telling you its regularly done is giving you disinform........., oh what the hell, they are lying to you. ( I'm trying to avoid the temptation of being overly polite via euphemistic terms) Falling off the wagon for a mattress dance to celebrate the alignment of the planets is not likely an indication you are ready to go from zero to a hundred. Not with him at least. Check out your other options if you really want to jumpstart your sex life.


did I date you in college? you remind me of this contrarian dude who thought he absolutely knew everything, was all emo & mysterious & loved 80’s synth pop, the Family Guy and musicals, lol.

anyway... women are mysterious, our libido is tied up to some crazy crazy stuff, it’s a moving target. I’m asking other women if they could get their head back in the game, and one said yes.

I guess I should rephrase the zero to whatever question... has any woman here started over with their spouse & found passion again. There.

my H claims he’s an all new, emotionally in-tune guy. He seems to think forgiveness means forgetting aaaaallllll of what happened in the past & starting over. Which has been impossible for me. So, maybe it is all a lost cause but again, looking at things from different angles.

I’m not in a huge hurry to leave. I’m living with my friend, my biological clock never ticked really and all my stuff is here. He’s asking me to engage in an experiment. You are probably 100% right, it won’t work, but... ?


----------



## grayhound

CatholicDad said:


> Sounds like you're equally guilty of turning marital sex into a (non-intimate) circus if you made a habit of watching porn together. Maybe that's just how he is and that's fine but by using this crutch you only prolonged the misery it sounds like.
> 
> My take is that God gave us this incredible, wonderful gift which is marital sex and like any beautiful thing is can be quickly destroyed or killed... just like a flower.
> 
> So, I imagine you can find orgasmic sex with tons of other guys, but true intimacy... not sure about that. True intimacy isn't based on an illusion of who you think someone is but actually sharing a moment with someone because you know truly who they are and even accept their deficiencies and failings... isn't that what real intimacy is?
> 
> Sounds like hubby may have killed intimacy long ago... too bad.


You assume a lot.

I’ve been dying for real intimacy. Try explaining what you just explained above to someone who absolutely doesn’t get it, then feels attacked, inadequate & completely shuts down. It’s a losing battle and such a hard to explain concept that I think a lot of men just can’t figure it out. God or not. 

coincidentally, we both grew up with religion. Him very much so. I think they didn’t talk about sex in the household at all. Zero emotions were shown, too. I think his mom is desperate for the same sort of emotional connection that I want. She used prescription drugs to numb it down. Women are vessels & creators/maintainers of families in their world. Not cherished & protected. 

I’m happy for you that you understand what making love to your wife truly is. I envy that kind of connection, trust & desire to see who she is on all levels. She is very lucky.


----------



## Pip’sJourney

grayhound said:


> thank you thank you for your input, this is exactly what I was hoping to read.
> 
> how did he show you he wanted you? What do you think started the process? How did you communicate your needs and what made him finally hear you?
> 
> I am also a fixer, a people pleaser. I am trying to tease apart how much of our history was me tuning out to make everyone happy & how much of it was genuine affextio. I guess it’s normal for people pleasers to have a moment where they come undone & rage with anger. And now I’m sifting through the rubble trying to figure out what is salvageable.
> 
> how angry did you get? How invisible do you feel?I started out feeling like the personal assistant and it just got lonelier & more thankless as the years went by until I snapped.
> 
> did you have a moment, a catalyst?
> 
> I’d love to hear more if you have the time.


I will try to answer the best I can...please remember that we are all different and what works for one may not work for all.

First, how did the process start... I believe, like you it just stopped for me. I did not want his touch at all. His mere glance made the hair on my back rise. It sounds bad, but I was so mad and resentful that I did not even want him touching me. He was like an immature child and I wanted a partner.. not someone I had to take care of. Mind you I was doing all the laundry, cleaning, parenting.. etc. He has a stereo room where he would go and close the door. He always worked and I will give him that. However that is not the question. 
After a period of no sex (7months) he came to me and said, “either we work on out marriage, open it or divorce.”. I do not want to have a sexless marriage and I want to be with you. I want you.”. That started the path back to him. We talked. A LOT. He did not want to be his parents who were as dysfunctional as possible. 

IT WAS HIM.. he wanted change too. He told me I would see a new him. He felt that he was not being confident.. and was going to work on that.

Second, anger... um yes.. My kids actually called it heat rage but I was very um... unpleasant.. angry... sad.. resentful..cold etc.

He said that he felt I was so strong.. and cold at times. I have had a lot if loss in my life and have learned to just keep going. I remember breaking down during one of our discussions and asking him who was there to comfort me? I comforted everyone when was it my turn? He thought that I did not need it.. and he then understood.. I NEEDED HIM.. to comfort me not just have sex.. but the sex came from the comfort and desire to hold me and not expect anything back. His way of showing love to me was the sex.. my way of showing love was taking care of everyone. When he took care of me, it came back.The act of giving. Does that make sense?


----------



## Sfort

Pip’sJourney said:


> His way of showing love to me was the sex.. my way of showing love was taking care of everyone.


A real life example of how important it is to understand The Five Love Languages. OP should read it.


----------



## Pip’sJourney

Sfort said:


> A real life example of how important it is to understand The Five Love Languages. OP should read it.


I have read it.. and agree with you she should.


----------



## grayhound

Pip’sJourney said:


> I have read it.. and agree with you she should.


Funny, my H read it & proclaimed that my love language is doing chores.

I will put it on my reading list.


----------



## grayhound

Pip’sJourney said:


> I will try to answer the best I can...please remember that we are all different and what works for one may not work for all.
> 
> First, how did the process start... I believe, like you it just stopped for me. I did not want his touch at all. His mere glance made the hair on my back rise. It sounds bad, but I was so mad and resentful that I did not even want him touching me. He was like an immature child and I wanted a partner.. not someone I had to take care of. Mind you I was doing all the laundry, cleaning, parenting.. etc. He has a stereo room where he would go and close the door. He always worked and I will give him that. However that is not the question.
> After a period of no sex (7months) he came to me and said, “either we work on out marriage, open it or divorce.”. I do not want to have a sexless marriage and I want to be with you. I want you.”. That started the path back to him. We talked. A LOT. He did not want to be his parents who were as dysfunctional as possible.
> 
> IT WAS HIM.. he wanted change too. He told me I would see a new him. He felt that he was not being confident.. and was going to work on that.
> 
> Second, anger... um yes.. My kids actually called it heat rage but I was very um... unpleasant.. angry... sad.. resentful..cold etc.
> 
> He said that he felt I was so strong.. and cold at times. I have had a lot if loss in my life and have learned to just keep going. I remember breaking down during one of our discussions and asking him who was there to comfort me? I comforted everyone when was it my turn? He thought that I did not need it.. and he then understood.. I NEEDED HIM.. to comfort me not just have sex.. but the sex came from the comfort and desire to hold me and not expect anything back. His way of showing love to me was the sex.. my way of showing love was taking care of everyone. When he took care of me, it came back.The act of giving. Does that make sense?


I really appreciate you taking the time to answer again. 

I can totally relate to feeling like the parent and thus not wanting to be physical with him. I feel that way all the time.

did your husband know _how_ to be comforting? How to emotionally connect with you? Did he read cues when you needed him or did you just tell him “I need you to hug me now”?

If he already knew how to love you, you just needed to remind him, that’s one thing. Did you have to teach him any of this? Did you have to be specific about your needs or did he intuitively know? 

I’m sorry you’ve been through a lot of loss. That’s so emotionally exhausting & changes your view of the world. I hope you found some happiness after that.

this process with your husband, how long did it take? Did you ever resent him for pushing about the missing sex?

And, if you don’t mind me asking, how was the 1st time after the hiatus? 

How are things today? Do you always have to remind him to comfort you, or did it stick?


----------



## VladDracul

grayhound said:


> did I date you in college? you remind me of this contrarian dude who thought he absolutely knew everything, was all emo & mysterious & loved 80’s synth pop, the Family Guy and musicals, lol.


Nice fantasy from my view Grayhound but I'm likely older than your father. May have taught you in college if you ever took tax or commercial law courses. Not exactly synth pop but the 80's Heart was my favorite band. I thought Ann Wilson was a fox and I'd walked a mile through a blinding snow storm just to listen to her sing over a telephone.
Its clear to me you really want to give it all you've got to salvage this relationship. There's a chance it can be done but you've got the get the real problems out on the table. Assuming you've at least enjoyed sex with the guy in the past, something turned it off; probably something more complicated than you want to believe. You ain't gonna get that heart pumping again until you find and remove the blockage. What made you lose interest?


----------



## Sfort

grayhound said:


> Funny, my H read it & proclaimed that my love language is doing chores.


Acts of service? His proclaiming doesn't make is so. Your language could be one of the other four or even a combination of them. I can't figure out my spouses primary love language.


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## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> Nice fantasy from my view Grayhound but I'm likely older than your father. May have taught you in college if you ever took tax or commercial law courses. Not exactly synth pop but the 80's Heart was my favorite band. I thought Ann Wilson was a fox and I'd walked a mile through a blinding snow storm just to listen to her sing over a telephone.
> Its clear to me you really want to give it all you've got to salvage this relationship. There's a chance it can be done but you've got the get the real problems out on the table. Assuming you've at least enjoyed sex with the guy in the past, something turned it off; probably something more complicated than you want to believe. You ain't gonna get that heart pumping again until you find and remove the blockage. What made you lose interest?


I’m going to back up on my timeline a bit for context...

And thank you for taking an interest in my saga. 

I was with a guy prior to this for 5 years. Got really wrapped up in his family, loved him so much. We bought a house. I thought marriage was next, but he dumped me. I was completely devastated & so depressed. 

Enter my husband, also out of a traumatic break up. We start going out on friendly dinners, never a date. He was never the chivalrous, bill-paying type. 

He stared helping me with homework. Showing up unannounced. Really actively pursued me. I wasn’t into it for a year. I dated other guys & realized (?) maybe the stable friendship made more sense. And my home life was a mess after moving out of my ex’s, so he just felt stable to me. 

I admired his incredible intellect & confidence. He delegated without hesitation, barked orders at people and then they’d all laugh together. People really respected him. He just seemed to have it all together & emotions never dictated his world. To me, he was in complete control and it was so refreshing. He is a voracious reader & loves to learn. But implementation of actual processes with humans he isn’t in charge of was a challenge. 

So, as an audience member watching his life, I thought he was fantastic. But he had very little desire to figure out what I wanted. He’d read books about women’s minds and anatomy, but never just asked me. He didn’t read my non verbal cues, he couldn’t anticipate my moves. So anything in the physical space with him is awkward and clunky. I’m used to just kicking him out of my kitchen & kicking him out of everything else in close proximity to me. 

I used to think his lack of confidence with me & my body was endearing, but then it went to frustration on both of our parts, resentment on mine and then disengagement on both. I kept arguing, he can teach himself absolutely everything, but he cannot understand, retain & repeat anything that matters to me. Be it, how I clean, how I like to be touched, what brands I buy, what my favorite flower is, what my fears are etc. He knows & understands things that 98% of the population doesn’t know, but he can’t figure me out. And doesn’t seem willing. And I’ve changed how I communicate, present myself etc to accommodate his uber logical mind, his not compromising or willingness to learn about me really started to hurt me deeply. So, was it inability to learn human stuff or an unwillingness? Some days he seemed to really want to know, other days he’d insinuate that emotions & women were weak & completely useless. But I’m chock full of colorful, intense emotions... good and bad. He seemed to enjoy the way I see the world, but wouldn’t come into my space & really get to know me. 

We hit a wall. He is now is trying to “soften” by getting in tune with his emotions. After 6 months of blaming his parents, getting on Prozac, crying daily, telling me I should just learn to love him unconditionally (“I’m not changing!”), he’s just a sad little boy crying yearning be held... he turned to more metaphysical things. He is obsessed on books about meditation, mindfulness and controlling your dreams. I asked him, where are the books on communicating with women, how to make relationships work, non verbal communication etc? Nuthin’. 

So... it’s almost like meeting a celebrity that you admire tremendously and learning that they have no interpersonal skills. He is so amazing, receives tremendous accolades from his peers, but behind the scenes, it’s a mess. And if I leave, I believe his domestic life would fall apart until another woman came along. When he was a bachelor, ooohboy, his apartment teetered on 3rd world status. I felt pretty special that I could come in & make his life better as he went out and was brilliant in other areas. 

I totally went on a flowery walk of a tangent.

Long story short, I used to be able to see his brilliance as an outsider, and love him despite him not being great at loving me back. But the day his lack of caring put me in danger... and he knew I was in danger... that’s when I snapped & decided that I couldn’t be intimate with someone who didn’t _seem_ to care about my well-being. In other words, his inability to show concern about me being physically okay, possibly in serious danger, made me resent him. If my husband doesn’t care about me, what am I doing here, at all?

he says it’s just his bad communication skills. His words say he loves me & values me. His actions scream the opposite. Therapists & my H are saying that he’s trying, be patient, learn his language. Even when I spell it out clearly, sometimes in writing, he can’t do it. Sometimes he won’t even try because he resents me telling him what to do. How do you ask someone to care about you & they won’t, not even entertain discussing it, simply because you are asking and they see that as you trying to control them?

My gut is saying no more. I am hurting too much to even try to trust him again. But I have people begging me to try. I’m very conflicted, obviously.


----------



## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> Nice fantasy from my view Grayhound but I'm likely older than your father. May have taught you in college if you ever took tax or commercial law courses. Not exactly synth pop but the 80's Heart was my favorite band. I thought Ann Wilson was a fox and I'd walked a mile through a blinding snow storm just to listen to her sing over a telephone.
> Its clear to me you really want to give it all you've got to salvage this relationship. There's a chance it can be done but you've got the get the real problems out on the table. Assuming you've at least enjoyed sex with the guy in the past, something turned it off; probably something more complicated than you want to believe. You ain't gonna get that heart pumping again until you find and remove the blockage. What made you lose interest?


Tax or commercial law? Nope. I wish my mind worked that way, though!!!

Heart is fantastic. Ann Wison is very beautiful


----------



## VladDracul

Sfort said:


> Acts of service?


With the number of chicks saying they're turning off because their old man ain't doing enough around the teepee, its easy to get that impression. I mean, if not doing something is a turn off, do it must have the opposite effect.


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## Openminded

You need a different therapist.

(Words are always the easy part. Actions are obviously another story.)


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## VladDracul

"He knows & understands things that 98% of the population doesn’t know, but he can’t figure me out."

There's a big difference tween inanimate objects, concepts, formulas, and other cerebral stuff and a babe that just wants to melt in his arms. He ain't gonna understand what he finds in books about women's minds either. What's the chance of getting your old man on this site Grayhound. He need the mentoring.


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## Pip’sJourney

grayhound said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to answer again.
> 
> I can totally relate to feeling like the parent and thus not wanting to be physical with him. I feel that way all the time.
> 
> did your husband know _how_ to be comforting? How to emotionally connect with you? Did he read cues when you needed him or did you just tell him “I need you to hug me now”?
> 
> If he already knew how to love you, you just needed to remind him, that’s one thing. Did you have to teach him any of this? Did you have to be specific about your needs or did he intuitively know?
> 
> I’m sorry you’ve been through a lot of loss. That’s so emotionally exhausting & changes your view of the world. I hope you found some happiness after that.
> 
> this process with your husband, how long did it take? Did you ever resent him for pushing about the missing sex?
> 
> And, if you don’t mind me asking, how was the 1st time after the hiatus?
> 
> How are things today? Do you always have to remind him to comfort you, or did it stick?


I think you need a bit of a timeline too. This question(work on it, open, divorce) was asked in Oct of 2020 and we have been making our marriage of 27 years better. So it has been 7-8 months or so. Soon after we had what we named 'sexapaloosa' and had a lot of sex(4-10x a week).. but actually pleasing and meaningful sex. I fell back in love with him. yes in love.. this may be the issue with you as you said you never felt in love.. you loved him, but have you ever felt that new butterfly in the stomach feeling of love? 

Did I resent him for pushing the sex.. yes.. definitely yes. When you feel like you are giving everything and the other just takes.. yes. That was at the crux of the feeling.. I had to get rid of that hate and anger. I had to leave that in the past. I had to press restart. Can I say I never get angry at him when I see his old ways creeping back.. no I get angry. I remind him of working on us and he needs to try. He has and is trying and I can see that.

My husband has NO CLUE how to be comforting. He knows how to be comforted but not comforting. This is another issue we had. Remember I talked about his parents and how messed up they were.. well their whole relationship is soo divisive. It is everyone for themselves. Each person in order to survive had to be the most selfish possible. That was a HUGE problem. There was no US. There was him.. and me.. but were we in it together? no... it had become singular not a pair. I think that the mindset has to be, we are doing this together. It is our shared things.. it is our money( no one makes their own decisions..it has to be together) we had to resolve that we choose to be with the other and this life is OUR life. Once he understood how selfish he was being in many aspects of his life, he began to understand when I needed comforting. When I got really frustrated... he actually came and hugged me unsolicited. If your H is on the autism scale, he may also have issues of not thinking of others first. So this is a VERY important topic you need to talk to him about. Do not phrase it as.. you are selfish, but rather.. we need to work as one.. we need to be a couple and think of each other.. this is how we do it in this particular situation. 

This whole mindset leads into the next topic. Life is so complex and there are so many other aspects to this.. but I will try to deal with what you asked.. but next topic is sex. The first time after the hiatus was amazing. I O'd many times. and we did it many times. I came into this relationship having had a rich sex life. I know myself and never had an issue attracting a man. I knew my sexuality and embraced it. He was a virgin. I was 26 and he 25 when we met. There was a big gap in the experience levels in what I had experimented in and what he had fantasized in. This was another conversation that we needed to talk about. What he wanted to try... and what I was willing to revisit or try with him the first time. Our married sex was getting vanilla. I did not always want to be the teacher. He had been watching a lot of porn during the hiatus which.. I am not anti porn, but I think that if you are trying to get closer to your partner, you have to let go of the solo watching of porn. It goes back to the couple thing and doing things together and not as a singular person. It is a mindset. For awhile you need to be as one.. then you can have more privacy..I would also like to add that there is a huge difference between privacy and secrecy. That is another topic though.

These are my feelings and my experience.. what has been working for us and how I found my way back to him. I am not a counselor, but rather a normal woman in a marriage who is trying to live the best life I can with my husband.. to live our life together. Your questions are not a bother and I will answer the best I can as it also helps me understand my situation and the evolution of us.


----------



## oldshirt

I know you are wanting to hear from the ladies, but my input from a guy is largely this - I would want to know the extent of your dissatisfaction and your disconnection sexually. 

It’s really easy to give and receive mixed messages and false hopes etc in these situations.

If your H has difficulty understanding emotional cues and grasping emotional topics, it is probably doubly confusing for him.

I would want to know where things stand so I could make an informed decision on what I would need to do. 

A lot of guys when faced with their wife leaving or a wife closing the book on the sex life will panic and make promises and vows to “change” and do better etc. 

‘Change’ and ‘do better’ to these guys often means doing more dishes and laundry and cards and flowers etc. 

Men (even austistic ones) are action and task oriented. To them doing more dishes and buying more flowers are tasks and actions.

Are you disconnected from him and sexually repulsed by him due to him not doing enough dishes or buying enough flowers???

The hygiene issue is a bit different in that it shows an almost total lack of polite human interaction.

He may be able to take more showers and do more dishes and buy more flowers, but if what you are craving is basic human bonding and connection and some form of emotional and sexual symbiosis, you may be barking up a wrong tree here. He may simply not have the tools, the nomenclature and basic programming to provide that.

If I simply wasn’t able to provide for my partners needs, I would want to know the extent of the disconnect so that I could make an informed decision on whether to pull out all the stops and seek professional counseling/therapy etc etc in attempt to provide for her needs,,,, Vs accepting that I’m not capable of providing for her needs and seeking a fair and amicable dissolution.


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## ccpowerslave

I’m not a lady but reading about his attempts to improve with his Prozac fueled crying fits would be a she-boner killer for me so I can’t blame you there.


----------



## grayhound

I woke up with a more simplified idea of why I’m not happy in my marriage.

my H is all in his head. He thinks. He doesn’t move through space elegantly, he doesn’t take care of his body, he doesn’t have muscles. He’s all about sitting & thinking.

because of this, I think he hates doing chores or doing anything that requires moving around, and this has gotten worse as he’s gotten older. If he goes up and down the stairs a few times, he has to sit & have water for 10 minutes. 

I already had the problem of him not knowing what I like or how to touch me and now, he’s acting 10 years older than he actually is.

in a nutshell, he’s lazy. Not when it comes to staying up until 4am to research something or obsess on a computer project, but for me, for our life... he’s lazy. And any requests are taken as attacks and he will not do anything that isn’t his idea, because he’s the smartest one in the room and he has issues with people telling him what to do. He has no idea and no desire to do what I need him to do and simply won’t do it. I told myself I was just asking way too much and whittled down my requests to 3 things, and he couldn’t even do that. They were:

1. Bathe more than once a week
2. Talk to me & communicate with me differently than he does with his friends & coworkers. “Treat me like your sweetheart”. 
3. Care about my well being. Leave space in his daily awareness to know where I am & be available if I need him.

when I didn’t get this, I shut down. And as of now, my list to stay includes things I know he is incapable of. I have to accept it or go. I feel very cornered.


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## grayhound

ccpowerslave said:


> I’m not a lady but reading about his attempts to improve with his Prozac fueled crying fits would be a she-boner killer for me so I can’t blame you there.


Yeah... it was bad. He compared himself to a crying little boy that needed his mommy. He kept telling me “I’m just a little boy!” It was unattractive, but more scary because he was acting very irrational.


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## ccpowerslave

grayhound said:


> I woke up with a more simplified idea of why I’m not happy in my marriage.
> 
> my H is all in his head. He thinks. He doesn’t move through space elegantly, he doesn’t take care of his body, he doesn’t have muscles. He’s all about sitting & thinking.
> 
> because of this, I think he hates doing chores or doing anything that requires moving around, and this has gotten worse as he’s gotten older. If he goes up and down the stairs a few times, he has to sit & have water for 10 minutes.
> 
> I already had the problem of him not knowing what I like or how to touch me and now, he’s acting 10 years older than he actually is.
> 
> in a nutshell, he’s lazy. Not when it comes to staying up until 4am to research something or obsess on a computer project, but for me, for our life... he’s lazy. And any requests are taken as attacks and he will not do anything that isn’t his idea, because he’s the smartest one in the room and he has issues with people telling him what to do. He has no idea and no desire to do what I need him to do and simply won’t do it. I told myself I was just asking way too much and whittled down my requests to 3 things, and he couldn’t even do that. They were:
> 
> 1. Bathe more than once a week
> 2. Talk to me & communicate with me differently than he does with his friends & coworkers. “Treat me like your sweetheart”.
> 3. Care about my well being. Leave space in his daily awareness to know where I am & be available if I need him.
> 
> when I didn’t get this, I shut down. And as of now, my list to stay includes things I know he is incapable of. I have to accept it or go. I feel very cornered.


Bleh... I mean maybe if you drop an ultimatum on him it will work but he’s so far off normal that is a big hill to climb.

How do you make it to adulthood without taking a shower every day?

You’re not asking for much.


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## grayhound

oldshirt said:


> I know you are wanting to hear from the ladies, but my input from a guy is largely this - I would want to know the extent of your dissatisfaction and your disconnection sexually.
> 
> It’s really easy to give and receive mixed messages and false hopes etc in these situations.
> 
> If your H has difficulty understanding emotional cues and grasping emotional topics, it is probably doubly confusing for him.
> 
> I would want to know where things stand so I could make an informed decision on what I would need to do.
> 
> A lot of guys when faced with their wife leaving or a wife closing the book on the sex life will panic and make promises and vows to “change” and do better etc.
> 
> ‘Change’ and ‘do better’ to these guys often means doing more dishes and laundry and cards and flowers etc.
> 
> Men (even austistic ones) are action and task oriented. To them doing more dishes and buying more flowers are tasks and actions.
> 
> Are you disconnected from him and sexually repulsed by him due to him not doing enough dishes or buying enough flowers???
> 
> The hygiene issue is a bit different in that it shows an almost total lack of polite human interaction.
> 
> He may be able to take more showers and do more dishes and buy more flowers, but if what you are craving is basic human bonding and connection and some form of emotional and sexual symbiosis, you may be barking up a wrong tree here. He may simply not have the tools, the nomenclature and basic programming to provide that.
> 
> If I simply wasn’t able to provide for my partners needs, I would want to know the extent of the disconnect so that I could make an informed decision on whether to pull out all the stops and seek professional counseling/therapy etc etc in attempt to provide for her needs,,,, Vs accepting that I’m not capable of providing for her needs and seeking a fair and amicable dissolution.


What you said has been so helpful, thank you.

I gave up on chores. Flowers feel forced. And you are so right, I’m getting more dishes and flowers. He thinks meditating & reading more books about philosophy will fix this. And dishes (which stopped 2 weeks ago). 

what I want is so hard to explain & it’s like, a higher level of organic connection that I don’t think that be taught. So, I’m pessimistic that it will happen.

the big shifts in my level of dissatisfaction happened when he let me down when I was vulnerable. I’m a pretty strong woman, but when it comes to medical stuff, death & feeling unsafe, I’ve reached out to him to be strong for me. All these times, he’s let me down. He left the waiting room at the dentist because their wifi wasn’t working & didn’t tell me (he was my ride), he didn’t go to funerals, he wouldn’t answer my phone call when I had a major emergency. But the same year, I was there and dropped everything for him for similar events in his life. It just made me feel so insignificant. Then he argues with me about how valuable his time is to the reason he can’t be there for me. I snapped.

the 2nd realm of impossibilities, how we communicate non verbally. He’s in his head & isn’t present in the moment. We run into each other all the time, he can never anticipate where i’m going. I’ll have my hands up in the universal “I have to wash my hands” pose, and he blocks the sink. Every time. That’s what sex is like. So, I have to verbally tell him everything. Every time. It’s like he doesn’t care. I don’t know how to move past this.

along these lines, he can’t flirt, notice when I’m flirting or be playful at all. Everything is literal & has to be spelled out all the time. I hate narrating my life. It’s so one sided & he hasn’t noticed how much I have changed how I communicate just for him.


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## grayhound

ccpowerslave said:


> Bleh... I mean maybe if you drop an ultimatum on him it will work but he’s so far off normal that is a big hill to climb.
> 
> How do you make it to adulthood without taking a shower every day?
> 
> You’re not asking for much.


Working from home. Before that, his coworkers noticed that he wouldn’t bathe. One thanked me later because he started bathing when he met me. I didn’t have a clue until we moved in together because he was actually bathing a lot when he was trying to get me.

he is very odd. But so smart & has made huge, major accomplishments in his career. He has been published multiple times & he is so well respected. I respect who he is so much.


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## Pip’sJourney

@grayhound it sounds like you have done a bunch of work. Even just having him do the 3 things which he cannot do. Bathing at the minimum should be every other day. It sounds like he is unable to meet basic needs. He may NEVER be able to. I guess you need to decide which it seems you are realizing. If he is unable to be what you need, you need to move on.

He definitely on the spectrum. Him not being there for those major things.. death.. hospital.. dentist would be a deal breaker. It needs to be a partnership and it does not seem like that is the case. If he is not able to be a partner, then my advice is to split.


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## Openminded

This is who he is, and he’s very unlikely to make any changes that are permanent, so you have a decision to make.


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## oldshirt

grayhound said:


> What you said has been so helpful, thank you.
> 
> I gave up on chores. Flowers feel forced. And you are so right, I’m getting more dishes and flowers. He thinks meditating & reading more books about philosophy will fix this. And dishes (which stopped 2 weeks ago).
> 
> what I want is so hard to explain & it’s like, a higher level of organic connection that I don’t think that be taught. So, I’m pessimistic that it will happen.
> 
> the big shifts in my level of dissatisfaction happened when he let me down when I was vulnerable. I’m a pretty strong woman, but when it comes to medical stuff, death & feeling unsafe, I’ve reached out to him to be strong for me. All these times, he’s let me down. He left the waiting room at the dentist because their wifi wasn’t working & didn’t tell me (he was my ride), he didn’t go to funerals, he wouldn’t answer my phone call when I had a major emergency. But the same year, I was there and dropped everything for him for similar events in his life. It just made me feel so insignificant. Then he argues with me about how valuable his time is to the reason he can’t be there for me. I snapped.
> 
> the 2nd realm of impossibilities, how we communicate non verbally. He’s in his head & isn’t present in the moment. We run into each other all the time, he can never anticipate where i’m going. I’ll have my hands up in the universal “I have to wash my hands” pose, and he blocks the sink. Every time. That’s what sex is like. So, I have to verbally tell him everything. Every time. It’s like he doesn’t care. I don’t know how to move past this.
> 
> along these lines, he can’t flirt, notice when I’m flirting or be playful at all. Everything is literal & has to be spelled out all the time. I hate narrating my life. It’s so one sided & he hasn’t noticed how much I have changed how I communicate just for him.


Since your name is Grayhound, I will use an analogy about greyhounds. 

Greyhounds are lean, long legged, athletic dogs bred for the soul purpose of running fast and winning races. 

If you want to stand the least bit of a chance of winning a dog race, you have to have a greyhound.

A French bulldogs will never cut it at the track. 

French bulldogs are loving and faithful family pets, but will never win a race against any greyhound that is still able to stand under its own power. 

You’re needing something out of your H that he may not be physiologically or psychologically capable of providing.

You got a French bulldog and are now wanting to win dog races. You got the wrong dog for the job. 

If emotional connection and some kind of emotional symbiosis is your object, someone who is even slightly suspected of maybe being on the spectrum is not the man for you.


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## SunCMars

This is that classic battle married people often find themselves in.

That.....

You will support your partner through good and bad times, through sickness and in health.

You promised, you vowed.
As did all people who exchanged (these common place) vows in this era.

Promises are important, as are vows.

But, they are not written in blood.
You are morally permitted to take your vows back for good cause.

You are legally permitted to take back your vows for whatever reason.

I think you have good cause to end your promises and vows to your husband.
And, you have good cause to end your marriage.

Such actions are not without guilt, pain and financial costs.



_Are Dee-_


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## grayhound

VladDracul said:


> "He knows & understands things that 98% of the population doesn’t know, but he can’t figure me out."
> 
> There's a big difference tween inanimate objects, concepts, formulas, and other cerebral stuff and a babe that just wants to melt in his arms. He ain't gonna understand what he finds in books about women's minds either. What's the chance of getting your old man on this site Grayhound. He need the mentoring.


He’s so stubborn. And won’t listen to anyone. He just thinks he’s “goofy” and that I am too specifically needy. If that changes, I’ll let you know. I really appreciate it.


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## grayhound

Pip’sJourney said:


> I think you need a bit of a timeline too. This question(work on it, open, divorce) was asked in Oct of 2020 and we have been making our marriage of 27 years better. So it has been 7-8 months or so. Soon after we had what we named 'sexapaloosa' and had a lot of sex(4-10x a week).. but actually pleasing and meaningful sex. I fell back in love with him. yes in love.. this may be the issue with you as you said you never felt in love.. you loved him, but have you ever felt that new butterfly in the stomach feeling of love?
> 
> Did I resent him for pushing the sex.. yes.. definitely yes. When you feel like you are giving everything and the other just takes.. yes. That was at the crux of the feeling.. I had to get rid of that hate and anger. I had to leave that in the past. I had to press restart. Can I say I never get angry at him when I see his old ways creeping back.. no I get angry. I remind him of working on us and he needs to try. He has and is trying and I can see that.
> 
> My husband has NO CLUE how to be comforting. He knows how to be comforted but not comforting. This is another issue we had. Remember I talked about his parents and how messed up they were.. well their whole relationship is soo divisive. It is everyone for themselves. Each person in order to survive had to be the most selfish possible. That was a HUGE problem. There was no US. There was him.. and me.. but were we in it together? no... it had become singular not a pair. I think that the mindset has to be, we are doing this together. It is our shared things.. it is our money( no one makes their own decisions..it has to be together) we had to resolve that we choose to be with the other and this life is OUR life. Once he understood how selfish he was being in many aspects of his life, he began to understand when I needed comforting. When I got really frustrated... he actually came and hugged me unsolicited. If your H is on the autism scale, he may also have issues of not thinking of others first. So this is a VERY important topic you need to talk to him about. Do not phrase it as.. you are selfish, but rather.. we need to work as one.. we need to be a couple and think of each other.. this is how we do it in this particular situation.
> 
> This whole mindset leads into the next topic. Life is so complex and there are so many other aspects to this.. but I will try to deal with what you asked.. but next topic is sex. The first time after the hiatus was amazing. I O'd many times. and we did it many times. I came into this relationship having had a rich sex life. I know myself and never had an issue attracting a man. I knew my sexuality and embraced it. He was a virgin. I was 26 and he 25 when we met. There was a big gap in the experience levels in what I had experimented in and what he had fantasized in. This was another conversation that we needed to talk about. What he wanted to try... and what I was willing to revisit or try with him the first time. Our married sex was getting vanilla. I did not always want to be the teacher. He had been watching a lot of porn during the hiatus which.. I am not anti porn, but I think that if you are trying to get closer to your partner, you have to let go of the solo watching of porn. It goes back to the couple thing and doing things together and not as a singular person. It is a mindset. For awhile you need to be as one.. then you can have more privacy..I would also like to add that there is a huge difference between privacy and secrecy. That is another topic though.
> 
> These are my feelings and my experience.. what has been working for us and how I found my way back to him. I am not a counselor, but rather a normal woman in a marriage who is trying to live the best life I can with my husband.. to live our life together. Your questions are not a bother and I will answer the best I can as it also helps me understand my situation and the evolution of us.


You brought up many concepts that really resonated with me. The idea that we are a team, it’s “us”, not two single people. That is huge. He is so selfish & not accommodating at all. He doesn’t wave people out of their parking spots or do things in public for other people. He is polite, but not giving. At all. I chalked it up to his brain was so busy solving complex problems that he didn’t have the bandwidth to be present & think of anything or anyone else.

i never had the butterflies with him, no. I told myself that it was because I was attracted to the wrong types of guys & the butterflies could not be trusted. I was just so broken when we met.

being comforted resonates with me a lot. He is always begging for more affection. It’s his way, on his terms and it is never something I take comfort in. I think I feel comfort as someone protecting me, my heart. Taking an interest in me. Thinking ahead of my needs. Not to an extreme, but just a little. I’m in the same boat... I feel like I do everything and he benefits from all of it. I feel like his secretary, maid & mother. It’s such a turnoff to be constantly thinking of ways to help someone who “just can’t be bothered” to return any of it.

i’m so impressed that you were able to communicate, articulate & rekindle your love. That is just so amazing. And such hard work. I hope you give yourself a ton of credit, and him, too! For forgiving & working through it all.

If you have more insight or epiphanies, I’d love to read about it!


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## grayhound

Pip’sJourney said:


> @grayhound it sounds like you have done a bunch of work. Even just having him do the 3 things which he cannot do. Bathing at the minimum should be every other day. It sounds like he is unable to meet basic needs. He may NEVER be able to. I guess you need to decide which it seems you are realizing. If he is unable to be what you need, you need to move on.
> 
> He definitely on the spectrum. Him not being there for those major things.. death.. hospital.. dentist would be a deal breaker. It needs to be a partnership and it does not seem like that is the case. If he is not able to be a partner, then my advice is to split.


He claims he has changed and he’s more in tune with me, his emotions & the world. He’s very proud of these changes. I think it’s because he takes copious notes on his phone now. If I say something I like or a blanket statement about who I am, he writes it down. I can hear him saying “she, she, she” on talk to text when he’s on the toilet. It’s a whole new world & I still don’t think I can live in it. So, his empathy needle is in the red & it’s wearing him out. But I haven’t noticed all that much changing except for him saying things like “that must have been hard for you” and “I’m feeling things for you.” He can’t say things like “I know how you like...”, or anticipate my needs or movements or change anything in his physical movements or be aware of non-verbal stuff.

I do suspect that he is on the spectrum & I keep getting slammed for saying that. But after the dust of my venting & complaining settles, I want to understand how he is thinking. I keep thinking there’s some magical puzzle piece missing that will fix everything & we’ll live happily ever after.

I think the missing puzzle piece is me just not having these needs & looking the other way or realizing that I’ll never feel special, loved or valued here. Other wives of guys on the spectrum all say... you will have to get your emotional needs met elsewhere. You will have to have a strong group of girlfriends that you can go to often, and feel loved and appreciated, heard & validated there.

I don’t know... that sounds like it’s not something I could do? And as of 4 years ago, I view sex as things that come from all those emotions listed above so... this would really suck.

But I also feel SO guilty for springing this all on him so harshly. Or maybe I didn’t. I’m not sure.


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## grayhound

Openminded said:


> This is who he is, and he’s very unlikely to make any changes that are permanent, so you have a decision to make.


I know you are right. I think my gut already made it 2 years ago.

I thought I could be strong & tell myself that I didn’t need the intimacy, emotional connection, reciprocity of intention to serve from love.

I feel so selfish for wanting out. But I’m also so angry for the circumstances. Sad for him. Pissed at myself for not listening to my heart all those years ago.


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## grayhound

oldshirt said:


> Since your name is Grayhound, I will use an analogy about greyhounds.
> 
> Greyhounds are lean, long legged, athletic dogs bred for the soul purpose of running fast and winning races.
> 
> If you want to stand the least bit of a chance of winning a dog race, you have to have a greyhound.
> 
> A French bulldogs will never cut it at the track.
> 
> French bulldogs are loving and faithful family pets, but will never win a race against any greyhound that is still able to stand under its own power.
> 
> You’re needing something out of your H that he may not be physiologically or psychologically capable of providing.
> 
> You got a French bulldog and are now wanting to win dog races. You got the wrong dog for the job.
> 
> If emotional connection and some kind of emotional symbiosis is your object, someone who is even slightly suspected of maybe being on the spectrum is not the man for you.


I appreciate the rich metaphor, thank you.

I suppressed my needs & made excuses for him as to why he couldn’t give me anything I needed. Then told myself I was weak for needing anything from anybody.

But as we get older, and people start dying and there are more medical procedures and caregiving needs... he showed me how one sided it was going to be. He expected me to clear my schedule for him, but he couldn’t give me an hour of his time. Even when I cried & begged, he argues that he was far too busy.

that was the wake up to shake me into where I am today. Prior to this, I told myself that the Frenchie was a-ok because I thought he was trying. When true need, true grief and service was needed, and begged for, he totally let me down. Then told me he was just searching for the (one way) unconditional love his parents never gave him. Or something.


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## grayhound

SunCMars said:


> This is that classic battle married people often find themselves in.
> 
> That.....
> 
> You will support your partner through good and bad times, through sickness and in health.
> 
> You promised, you vowed.
> As did all people who exchanged (these common place) vows in this era.
> 
> Promises are important, as are vows.
> 
> But, they are not written in blood.
> You are morally permitted to take your vows back for good cause.
> 
> You are legally permitted to take back your vows for whatever reason.
> 
> I think you have good cause to end your promises and vows to your husband.
> And, you have good cause to end your marriage.
> 
> Such actions are not without guilt, pain and financial costs.
> 
> 
> 
> _Are Dee-_


Well... I don’t know. I’ve never seen a marriage where I was like “that! That is what I want!” They all seem... uncomfortable. So recognizing that mine is broken, that I have reached total rock bottom... I need a few more slaps I suppose. But I feel closer to a decision.

guilt. Expense. Embarrassment. Feeling like a failure vs. freedom and? 


thank you for writing.


----------



## Openminded

I was married to a brilliant, successful man for a very long time. He never felt that his parents loved him (they did) and he never grew up. He was forever that little boy who wanted everything but he couldn’t give anything back. His solution, for decades, was to be a serial cheater. One day I got tired of that life and divorced him. Five minutes later he was remarried — “new mommy” was exactly like me. The moral of the story? Don’t spend your life that way. It doesn’t get better.


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## grayhound

Update… still living in the marital house. Feeling angrier every day. And guilty. He’s a nice guy, a smart guy. But when I observe him, I am so turned off, so irritated. And then I feel guilty again.

someone in here articulated what I want better than I could… I want a man who pulls me to him, that I can melt in his arms & feel his love & passion. Someone who cares about my well being & shows it. And some chemistry. Instead, he follows me around the house talking at me. Complains that we aren’t connecting. Texts me nonstop with articles about cute animals. He is mirroring me. He is super affectionate with the dog, Something he never used to do, he makes very feminine gestures, he giggles & covers his mouth like a schoolgirl. I just can’t even look at him. It could be the prozac, covid, his quest to find his emotional core but… the new him is even less appealing to me than the old him. At least the old combative him was masculine-ish. He’s gained weight, has zero muscle & we’re back to avoiding haircuts. I can’t stand how he smells. I hate myself for judging him. Shouldn’t I just accept him as he is?

I just can never see getting naked for him ever again. And I feel like we’re just spinning our wheels waiting for me to drop panties. And I feel awful. Taking a sledgehammer to our life because I can’t let him enter me. It just feels that simple. I know it’s not. But I feel beyond angry, crappy & just exhausted.

I feel like a terrible human being. Like I should just get really intoxicated & let it happen. Get it over with. I guess I’m feeling sorry for myself today.
Thanks for letting me vent.


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## BigDaddyNY

grayhound said:


> Update… still living in the marital house. Feeling angrier every day. And guilty. He’s a nice guy, a smart guy. But when I observe him, I am so turned off, so irritated. And then I feel guilty again.
> 
> someone in here articulated what I want better than I could… I want a man who pulls me to him, that I can melt in his arms & feel his love & passion. Someone who cares about my well being & shows it. And some chemistry. Instead, he follows me around the house talking at me. Complains that we aren’t connecting. Texts me nonstop with articles about cute animals. He is mirroring me. He is super affectionate with the dog, Something he never used to do, he makes very feminine gestures, he giggles & covers his mouth like a schoolgirl. I just can’t even look at him. It could be the prozac, covid, his quest to find his emotional core but… the new him is even less appealing to me than the old him. At least the old combative him was masculine-ish. He’s gained weight, has zero muscle & we’re back to avoiding haircuts. I can’t stand how he smells. I hate myself for judging him. Shouldn’t I just accept him as he is?
> 
> I just can never see getting naked for him ever again. And I feel like we’re just spinning our wheels waiting for me to drop panties. And I feel awful. Taking a sledgehammer to our life because I can’t let him enter me. It just feels that simple. I know it’s not. But I feel beyond angry, crappy & just exhausted.
> 
> I feel like a terrible human being. Like I should just get really intoxicated & let it happen. Get it over with. I guess I’m feeling sorry for myself today.
> Thanks for letting me vent.


It sounds to me like it is time to move on.


----------



## Pip’sJourney

Are you getting any counseling? Vent away too... I really think you may 
benefit from talking to someone.. and if you still feel the same way then maybe move on.


----------



## theloveofmylife

grayhound said:


> he is very odd. But so smart & has made huge, major accomplishments in his career. He has been published multiple times & he is so well respected. I respect who he is so much.


Not to be rude, but I don't think you do. I think you respect what he has accomplished so much, but you don't respect who he is. How could you when he is an unbathed, emotionally obtuse, little boy?

You feel guilty to leave, but honestly, is staying any better? Is being repulsed, irritable, angry, and unavailable better than just ripping the band-aid off now? Because I do think it will happen eventually.

Sorry for your troubles. Good luck.


----------

