# Wife of 10 years kissed a stranger



## Rainshaker

*Wife of 10 years kissed (who I thought was) a stranger*

The wife and mother of my 3 young children went out at the weekend with her girlfriends like normal as she sometimes does. The next morning she wasn't her normal self, but instead very quiet. I know my wife and I asked if there was anything wrong and did she need to tell my anything, to which said replied "no". Apparently she hadn't eaten much at their meal because she had a dodgy smomach. Last time my wife drank on an empty stomach she became an emotional mess and ruined our daughter's Christening party, to which she deeply regrets to this day.

Anyway, later that evening I asked i she was sure there was nothing wrong, and she confessed that she had kissed a stranger in the nightclub and blurted that she thinks she ruined our marriage. I was just in total shock as I've trusted her 100% I just replied "Oh...OK" and went into the other room and finished watching the movie I had been watching. (I was in total shock) That night my wife sept in the spare room and I hardly slept at all.

The next day shock turned to anger and I told her our marriage was over and I was leaving her for cheating on me. She apologised and admitted to being stupid, but when I asked why she did it she simply replied " he spun me a line and made me feel wanted". She apparently kissed this man behind the backs of her friends, probably using the excuse of having to use the toilet for the absence, but said she was with him for a while, however long that is.

I can only tell you that it's left me totally davastated. Kissing is said to be a romantic intimate thing, and knowing how intimately me wife kisses just tears me apart when I think of her kissing that stranger. 

Do I forgive her? or do I leave her for cheating on me? With having 3 beautiful daughter together, live in a lovely mortgage free house with lots of nice things, we have so much together, but I feel I will not be able to trust her again, and if I forgive her she may do it again one day. 

In many respects I blame myself because I'm not that touchy feely with her, she likes hugs and kisses) I don't exactly do intimate kissing unlss we're making passionate love, and our sex life is once every 6 weeks, 4 weeks if we're lucky. We've both put this to the children sappy our energy, as well as much job in which I work very long unsociable hours. Guys please help because I have no-one else to talk to because I feel to humilated to talk to my friends or family about this, and I am truly devastated.


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## PBear

Seriously? You're going to end a long marriage, with kids, over one drunken kiss, and no attempt to deal with the seemingly obvious issues that you've both contributed to?

My advice... Sit down and both if you start some open and honest communication about your marriage. The kiss is a symptom of the problems, although it's obviously causing it's own problems now. But get counselling if needed to get at the root problems.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop

Leaving over a kiss. I think that is over the top.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AppleDucklings

Do not leave your wife over this kiss. I understand how painful it is to think about that happening but your marriage is still very much save-able. She expresses regret and remorse. Go to MC. You both can work through this. Good luck, stay here with us. There are good people here who can help you and give you good advice.


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## msmith

If your wife has a physical illness, will you care for her or walk out on her? She just had an emotional "illness", and she asked for help, (telling you the truth, showing sign of remorse, apologizing the action), and you are going to do .... what?

It might be a cliche but it still holds the truth: does your heart ever flutter when you see some alluring women and fantasize about the would be encounter?


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## alphaomega

Yes. As hurt as you are, your being a little rash. I would take time to calm down before you make any decision. You need to think with a clear head, not an emotional one.

In the meantime, you need to realize you both have unmet needs in your marriage. It's up to you to fulfill hers, and her responsibility to fill yours.

Use this as a wakeup call and make your marriage stronger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

Leaving over this is extreme (even though it's perfectly understandable why you said it). I, too, fully agree on the MC, but a new dynamic has been introduced in your M-can you get past it? I, myself, would seriously consider NOT letting her go for GNO's anymore, and I would always have it in the back of my mind that if a complete stranger "spun her a line...", what happens if someone she knows better (and who finds out that your M is hit a rocky patch), starts to "spin her lines"?


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## okeydokie

i dont know, she sounds very remorseful about it but i would also be extremely pissed as you are. i think she needs to commit to you that she wont be going out and putting herself in that environment again. she also needs to completely reassure you that the kiss was all that happened. if your like me, i would be torn up about this and i could never be really sure.


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## Numb-badger

I assure you, you will be hurt, but it's not worth leaving the marriage for. Use it as an opportunity to open up communication and make the relationship stronger.
Best wishes


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## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> Seriously? You're going to end a long marriage, with kids, over one drunken kiss, and no attempt to deal with the seemingly obvious issues that you've both contributed to?


I agree completely. 

Talk to your wife about waht is going on in her head and tell her what your concerns are too. Get counselling. Both of you together and individually. It's good she told you about it straight away. Very commendable.

It sounds like sex is really lacking in your marriage... start having sex!!!


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## Initfortheduration

Don't leave her over that. I would tell her this though. "You are going to take a polygraph test, and based on the results I am scheduling a battery of tests for STDs and your coming with me". When I get to the doctors office I would boldly go up to the receptionist and tell her in a loud voice (the more people in the office the better) "We're here for our sexually transmitted disease test because my wife cheated on me". When she turns red and almost faints from shame, and asks you why you said it so loud and what must people think of her. Tell her "I'll wager that there were more people in the bar that night then are in this office now. It's funny that you feel shame over what I SAID when the real shame is what you DID. Its called consequences, deal with it."

I would also remove her from all bank accounts and credit cards. If you can't trust her with her tongue when shes out of sight, how can you trust her with your money. Make her earn your trust back. There has to be some discomfort for her actions.


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## it-guy

Interesting replies on this thread. I will say that my wife did more than kiss her OM....but I agree that a kiss is a very major thing. I think of a kiss as very intimate.

That being said I agree with the recomendations above that you need to work through this process as if it was a full blown PA. This is a super big warning sign that your relationship is in great danger.

Please talk to each other about your needs and feelings. You will find that you can both work hard on these things to keep each other happy.

Try to stay as level headed as you can. And look on the bright side.....she did tell you. That is a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega

Except the doctors office thing. Don't do that.


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## maaz3231

No, I do not think you should leave your wife. I believe this kiss can turn into a very positive thing if you let it. This should open up some long lost lines of communication between you and your wife. After discussing the kiss and getting through the hurt of it, you two can begin discussing what has been missing in your relationship, and how to fix it. Your discussions may lead to a much more intimate relationship, or they may repair broken lines of communication.


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## michzz

There is a lot more here than the kiss--if that is all she did.

Binge drinker going out looking for trouble with her wingwomen, that's gotta stop.

Assess her budding alcoholism.

Look into what she is really doing. I would not be satisfied just yet that this "kiss" is an isolated incident. And her upset over it? A bit more than for a kiss, in my opinion.

Your reaction seems to be based on a gut check that the story was not fully aired.

I can see being fed up with someone like your wife.

Straw meets camel's back and breaks it.


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## 8yearscheating

The money and credit cards are also over the top. Think about this for a second. Three men, 20 years and my youngest isn't mine and I'm still working through it! Man up and deal with it. Get MC and if she needs it IC. Do defintiely tell her she needs to be 100% honest and come clean if it was more than a kiss.


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## Rainshaker

8yearscheating said:


> The money and credit cards are also over the top. Think about this for a second. Three men, 20 years and my youngest isn't mine and I'm still working through it! Man up and deal with it. Get MC and if she needs it IC. Do defintiely tell her she needs to be 100% honest and come clean if it was more than a kiss.


She was on a heavy period at the time, I know this. I would never stop her going out with her friends. Her friends are married respectable professional women, who I know personally along with their husbands. What she did was behind their backs which just compounds the dishonesty. 

I know it was just a kiss, but I'm devastated by the fact she betrayed my trust and shared what should only be our intimate moment with a complete stranger. IMHO Marriage is built on the fundamental princibles of trust, and without trust you have nothing. 

If it's any comfort to any of you guys/girls who have also been affected by infidelity, my world came crashing down too. It really is the worst feeling ever, and I thank all of you for your support and replies. It's made all the difference having someone to talk/communicate with.


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## Lon

Even that kiss is a betrayal of trust, and so it still hurts deep. But she confessed to you, is there and not wanting to run away with him... it is a warning sign that things need to be fixed in your relationship, be glad it didn't progress beyond what it could have you still have a great opportunity to not only fix your marriage but make it better than ever. Her actions have shaken the marriage, it will be a lot of work to develop that trust back, and I wouldn't advise that as a MC technique, but make it work for your marriage because you are fortunate to be with someone committed to you!


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## Rainshaker

Well, last night I spoke to my wife for the first time since it happened (3 days ago), and it was a very emotional moment. I told her how I felt what it had done to me inside and we both got very upset. I went downstairs for a breather only to return to find my wife a blubbering mess on the floor. As angry, hurt and upset I was, I could do nothing but comfort her, and promised we'd get through this difficult and testing time.

When we spoke about things the guy she kissed turns out 'not' to be a stranger, but an old school friend she dated many moons ago. Needless to say one of her Facebook friends. (they say FB's dangerous). She told me she'd only ever kissed the guy, even when they were dating at school which I believe. My wife has expressed deep regret about what happened, I can see her sincerity. She like myself has had trouble eating and sleeping, and we've both dropped a few pounds over this. As for the bloke... what a complete spineless scumbag! The fact he knew she was married with children (lots of photos on wife's Facebook) just illustrates how low this scumbag was. 

My wife's told me his name because I told her to come clean about everything, although she's now frightened I'm going to beat him within an inch of his life (which I want to do), although I think I'll let Karma do its work on that Krettin! Just like a paedophile would whoo little girls online this scumbag was whooing my wife making her feel special. And if I'm honest it is probably my shortcoming; the likely reason why there's something seriously wrong with our relationship. I obviously need to make her feel more wanted, appreciated, more special... and obviously find more time for sex. 


I'm 40 years old and I've been with a fair few women in the past, some also with children, but none of them were married. The fact this scumbag tried and failed is testimony to the strength of our marriage. My wife didn't have to tell me about cheating, but chose to through guilt. With that and the fact she is sincerly sorry makes all the difference to me and I forgive her.


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## lordmayhem

Rainshaker said:


> Well, last night I spoke to my wife for the first time since it happened (3 days ago), and it was a very emotional moment. I told her how I felt what it had done to me inside and we both got very upset. I went downstairs for a breather only to return to find my wife a blubbering mess on the floor. As angry, hurt and upset I was, I could do nothing but comfort her, and promised we'd get through this difficult and testing time.
> 
> When we spoke about things the guy she kissed turns out 'not' to be a stranger, but an old school friend she dated many moons ago. Needless to say one of her Facebook friends. (they say FB's dangerous). She told me she'd only ever kissed the guy, even when they were dating at school which I believe. My wife has expressed deep regret about what happened, I can see her sincerity. She like myself has had trouble eating and sleeping, and we've both dropped a few pounds over this. As for the bloke... what a complete spineless scumbag! The fact he knew she was married with children (lots of photos on wife's Facebook) just illustrates how low this scumbag was.
> 
> My wife's told me his name because I told her to come clean about everything, although she's now frightened I'm going to beat him within an inch of his life (which I want to do), although I think I'll let Karma do its work on that Krettin! Just like a paedophile would whoo little girls online this scumbag was whooing my wife making her feel special. And if I'm honest it is probably my shortcoming; the likely reason why there's something seriously wrong with our relationship. I obviously need to make her feel more wanted, appreciated, more special... and obviously find more time for sex.
> 
> 
> I'm 40 years old and I've been with a fair few women in the past, some also with children, but none of them were married. The fact this scumbag tried and failed is testimony to the strength of our marriage. My wife didn't have to tell me about cheating, but chose to through guilt. With that and the fact she is sincerly sorry makes all the difference to me and I forgive her.


I see now that this was more than just a drunken moment at a club with a stranger. Now she's a blubbering mess over this? This is just not adding up. This was an old high school flame. *This is very dangerous*. Do you realize how many marriages have been ruined by men and women hooking up with old flames from high school/college? 

*You say you work very long hours all the time*. Sure she was on her heavy part of her period on that particular night. But what about other times? Just how do you know that this isn't just the tip of the iceberg. Have you read anything about Trickle Truth?

My initial thought was that you were over reacting over a single drunken kiss with a stranger at a bar. But now that its been revealed to be an old high school flame, plus the fact that you work very long hours, and she so very guilty about this, leads me to think there's much more to this than she has revealed.


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## F-102

Don't "beat him within an inch of his life"-call his wife and let her do it!


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## BigBadWolf

RWB's advice, I agree with it. Read it and take it to heart.

Treat this as it is, a full blow affair, EA and PA. 

"Just a kiss"? 

I will only say this, brace yourself for when the whole truth comes out.

A woman, she not going to tend to so much grieving and panicking and reaction for the total loss of her marriage for a mere kiss. Her words may say "just a kiss", but what does her behavior say? 

Also this attitude you "would never stop her" etc etc etc.

This kind of "trust" is borderline to apathy, which is fuel on the fire of insecurities in a woman if she feels her man "apathetic" to her.

Exchange this fear of being too controlling (or whatever it may be I have no idea) with instead the attitude that you will do whatever it takes to protect your marriage and your children from the consequences of this kind of behavior, even if that means telling your woman "hell no" to her clubbing.

In general, I admit I am amazed how easily many men on this forum seem to turn a blind eye to their woman going to clubs and drinking and engaging socially and flirtaciously with other men in this type of social setting. 

All good men reading this, tolerate this behavior from your woman at your own risk!


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## HurtinginTN

Rainshaker said:


> Needless to say one of her Facebook friends. (they say FB's dangerous).


That is the scariest and most dangerous part of this entire story. An EA (Emotional Affair) is, in my opinion, many times worse than a drunken kiss. She dated him previously AND he is her Facebook friend. I agree that her reaction looks like an Emotional Affair has been going on.

However, she does seem remorseful. Just look at some of the posts here about the addiction of affairs. I hope that she continues with the reconciliation. NO CONTACT with that man will be a MUST. I hope it goes well for you. It may be a long ordeal.


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## lordmayhem

I agree. Remorse is one good sign. But you have to be sure its Remorse and not Guilt. True remorse is when she feels sorry for your pain as well as hers. Any man or woman can put on the waterworks. 

Transparency is another requirement, and it has to be willing, not forced. A truly remorseful WS, WANTS to earn your trust at all costs. They start rebuilding trust with you by being transparent like handing over any and all passwords to any accounts, wants you to inspect their phones, hands over any secret cell phones, does not break NC, being accountable for their whereabouts, and most of all, does not try to take the affair underground.


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## HurtinginTN

lordmayhem said:


> Any man or woman can put on the waterworks.



I'll put my wife's fake waterworks up against any other. She could have been in Hollywood.


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## YoungMommy23

Being a woman.... it seems that her guilt is because she did something to threaten what yall had....i suggest moving forward. Ruining 3 childrens lives over a drunk kiss doesnt sound too smart. GOOD LUCK


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## lordmayhem

HurtinginTN said:


> I'll put my wife's fake waterworks up against any other. She could have been in Hollywood.


Dude, I think mine could give yours a run for her money. I got the tears, the swearing on the bible, the "God is my witness!" speech. lol


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## Gabriel

Rainshaker - listen to these people here. It is possible this was the first physical interaction between them while you were married, but it's more likely it wasn't. 

You have what sounds like a nice family. Do the following:

1) demand no contact (NC) with this guy - tell your W to unfriend him on FB, lose the phone number, have her write a letter/email to him that you can see that says the relationship is over and that she is working on saving the marriage.

2) monitor her FB and phone activity

3) tell your wife that the NC is non-negotiable. That if she continues to talk to him you will file for D. 

4) also tell her that you really want to save the marriage (assuming you do) and your family and are there to meet her needs, but only if the NC is in effect

5) once you are confident the NC is happening, show her more love, have more sex (once every 6 weeks is technically a sexless marriage)

I went through these steps with my wife, and we are on step 5 now. We used to have sex every 10 days or so, and we are now having sex almost every night. It's never been better or hotter. These types of things can make or break your marriage. It can kill you or give you a wake up call to recommit to making it work.

Know that your marriage as you knew it is over, and you are starting a brand new marriage. If she is truly remorseful, you are half way there. Good luck!


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## the guy

I think bigbadwolf forgot to mention consequences. Your wife diserve a hard spanking. Not now but soon I hope the both of you will reconnect and do all the right things to move on, but right before the make up sex (I hope)...she diserves a hard spanking.

If you listen to all the great advise and use it when needed you can work this out..it is all up to her though. She has to do the heavy lifting.

Another conseqeunce..no more GNO's and no more FB.


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## WhereAmI

I am wondering if one of her friends saw them kiss and gave her the good ol' "if you don't tell I will" line. I agree that you should dig a bit deeper. They just happened to be at the same place and share a kiss? Seeing people I knew from HS is often awkward, no matter how close we were. It would take either regular communication or a few meetings before I'd consider a kiss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

When it was "just a stranger", I took it at face value.

But when it came out that it was an old flame, I can see that she is "trickle truthing" you, and that there may be much, much more to this than she has (perhaps unwillingly, with the previous thread in mind) admitted.


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## Scottt

WhereAmI said:


> I am wondering if one of her friends saw them kiss and gave her the good ol' "if you don't tell I will" line. I agree that you should dig a bit deeper. They just happened to be at the same place and share a kiss? Seeing people I knew from HS is often awkward, no matter how close we were. It would take either regular communication or a few meetings before I'd consider a kiss.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





F-102 said:


> When it was "just a stranger", I took it at face value.
> 
> But when it came out that it was an old flame, I can see that she is "trickle truthing" you, and that there may be much, much more to this than she has (perhaps unwillingly, with the previous thread in mind) admitted.


I agree, there's probably more going on than you know about. Here's another possibility: Your wife was having an affair with the other man (OM) and he dumped her last weekend, or she was hoping to get something going with him, met him, and found out he wasn't interested. That would explain why she was moping around the house the next day. The story she told, including all the remorse and stuff, could have been a cover to explain the bawling that she otherwise would have had to keep holding back. I'm not saying this explanation is true, but it fits the facts better than the drunken kiss with a stranger story, unless your wife generally tends toward the histrionic.

The best way to find out would be to contact the OM and the OM's wife, without mentioning to your wife that you're going to do it (so she can't contact them first). And be polite; there's no reason at this point to assume the OM identified by your wife is involved in anything with her. It could be that she picked his name out of a hat (or in this case, off of facebook) to throw you off the trail of the real OM, assuming there is one.


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## couple

This also doesn't sit right with me. I agree with the trickle truth concern. I suspect that if you can ever get to the truth, you would find that it's a long way from just a kiss.


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## Entropy3000

Have not read all the replies so there may be more information.

No you do not leave her for kissing this guy but I agree she did cheat. Perhaps she is admitting to this and there is more. The bottom line is that she was ripe for the picking.

Why in the world was your wife who you 100% trust at a nightclub where this stuff happens all of the time. She was gamed. She went to a nightclub where every single guy there is trying to game her and get into her pants. 

I would not have been ok with her going in the first place.

So you work on your marriage, but no GNOs like this again for her. If she balks then you have a huge problem.

Why were you not there? Why would you let your wife play with the boys with alcohol and not expect her to do this? Duh!?

update: ok so this is way worse than I thought ....


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## Entropy3000

Rainshaker said:


> She was on a heavy period at the time, I know this. *I would never stop her going out with her friends*. Her friends are married respectable professional women, who I know personally along with their husbands. What she did was behind their backs which just compounds the dishonesty.
> 
> I know it was just a kiss, but I'm devastated by the fact she betrayed my trust and shared what should only be our intimate moment with a complete stranger. IMHO Marriage is built on the fundamental princibles of trust, and without trust you have nothing.
> 
> If it's any comfort to any of you guys/girls who have also been affected by infidelity, my world came crashing down too. It really is the worst feeling ever, and I thank all of you for your support and replies. It's made all the difference having someone to talk/communicate with.


Serious? You are considering divorcing her but are ok for her to continue this behavior. Makes no sense. 

I would not accept her going to places like these. Period. If you do you better accept what you get. Total FAIL.


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## Entropy3000

Rainshaker said:


> Well, last night I spoke to my wife for the first time since it happened (3 days ago), and it was a very emotional moment. I told her how I felt what it had done to me inside and we both got very upset. I went downstairs for a breather only to return to find my wife a blubbering mess on the floor. As angry, hurt and upset I was, I could do nothing but comfort her, and promised we'd get through this difficult and testing time.
> 
> When we spoke about things the guy she kissed turns out 'not' to be a stranger, but an old school friend she dated many moons ago. Needless to say one of her Facebook friends. (they say FB's dangerous). She told me she'd only ever kissed the guy, even when they were dating at school which I believe. My wife has expressed deep regret about what happened, I can see her sincerity. She like myself has had trouble eating and sleeping, and we've both dropped a few pounds over this. As for the bloke... what a complete spineless scumbag! The fact he knew she was married with children (lots of photos on wife's Facebook) just illustrates how low this scumbag was.
> 
> My wife's told me his name because I told her to come clean about everything, although she's now frightened I'm going to beat him within an inch of his life (which I want to do), although I think I'll let Karma do its work on that Krettin! Just like a paedophile would whoo little girls online this scumbag was whooing my wife making her feel special. And if I'm honest it is probably my shortcoming; the likely reason why there's something seriously wrong with our relationship. I obviously need to make her feel more wanted, appreciated, more special... and obviously find more time for sex.
> 
> 
> I'm 40 years old and I've been with a fair few women in the past, some also with children, but none of them were married. The fact this scumbag tried and failed is testimony to the strength of our marriage. My wife didn't have to tell me about cheating, but chose to through guilt. With that and the fact she is sincerly sorry makes all the difference to me and I forgive her.


Ok so she is now in total No Contact with this guy. He is no longer a friend on facebook. She is not emailing him, texting him or meeting up with him. She is not going to places he goes and so on. Total NC. Right? If she is telling you the truth which she did not at first, you have a chance to stop this before it gets way out of hand.


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## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> I see now that this was more than just a drunken moment at a club with a stranger. Now she's a blubbering mess over this? This is just not adding up. This was an old high school flame. *This is very dangerous*. Do you realize how many marriages have been ruined by men and women hooking up with old flames from high school/college?
> 
> *You say you work very long hours all the time*. Sure she was on her heavy part of her period on that particular night. But what about other times? Just how do you know that this isn't just the tip of the iceberg. Have you read anything about Trickle Truth?
> 
> My initial thought was that you were over reacting over a single drunken kiss with a stranger at a bar. But now that its been revealed to be an old high school flame, plus the fact that you work very long hours, and she so very guilty about this, leads me to think there's much more to this than she has revealed.


There is much more to this.


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## findingmyway

Unfortunately, it does sound like there is more. An old BF she never kissed? He just happened to show up at the same night club by chance? All that and it was just one kiss?

Good luck


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## Rainshaker

Entropy3000 said:


> There is much more to this.



Yes, unfortunately there is... Before I went into denial I thought about what was being said, and armed with people's suspicions and theories last night I sat down and had talk with my wife. What initially seemed like a kiss with a stranger just gets worst.... Why? because it was with not so much a boyfriend, but someone she was fond of and kissed when she was 16. She tells me he wasn't a boyfriend, but just someone she kissed many moons ago.

Last night she told me the events leading up to their 'intimate' embrace/kiss; the 1/2 hour or so they stood in the cold in a supermarket carpark. She tells me her old time friend has been FB friends with her for 2 years, and whenever it was they said they'd have to catch up, 'which of course is a no-no!' Through FB she told this sleezebag where she and her friends were having their meal, he pops in to quickly say hi, they suggest where they might be later and he then leaves for the pubs/clubs. My wife and her 'respectable loyal friends' also later go to the pubs and clubs and my wife again sees this sleezebag in the club. They'd obviously asked where they were planning to go later.

My wife gets talking to her old friend whilst her girlfriends chat dance get drunk, my wife obviously gets talking to this man and connects with him. Later on my wife's friends start thinning out, some going home, my wife decides to leave as does sleezebag, they agree to share a taxi as they live in the same direction, but they don't get into the taxi, but instead end up outside a supermarket carpark kissing. My wife ends up getting a taxi on her own and gets home at 3am. (she was very cold when she got into bed, this confirms standing outside. My loyal friend's wife and her friend left the club later and got home at 04:15 

Yesterday I rang my wife's best who was out with her that night who I've also known for many years, she answered the phone as bubbly as she always has been, very happy, churpy, her normal self. 

When I spoke to her I asked her what time she got back she laughed and said "I don't know I was drunk lol!, Naa it was about quarter past four, why hun?" I asked her a question or 2 and from then from my voice she automatically knew was not right and asked me with "Rainshaker what's wrong?" She was genuinely concerned and then the penny dropped. Without a shadow of doubt she never knew what happened after my wife left the club.

So, her friends never knew, so why did she confess less later the next day? My wife tells me it was because she couldn't carry on with the guilt. I'm guessing she realised the significance of her cheating and the conseqences of her actions and decided to come clean sooner than later, as let's be honest, if it was someone elso who had told me i would be a different ballgame! Although from talking to her I didn't get the impression she was aware of anyone else knowing about what had happened. 

After my talk with my wife last night things have gone rapidly down hill. Why? Because as it' already been suggested this was premediatated. This sleezebag who also turns out to have a partner wanted to connect with my wife, as she did. But what I cannot understand is what future did they see from doing this? Was it for sex? Or was it for comfort? The point is they 'connected'. And yes, what they done is cheating and a betrayal of trust which has huge ramifications.

Now I'd rather it was a stranger she'd kissed, but it wasn't, and regardless what the wife tells me, or her own denial she wanted to spend a moment with this guy. Only after did she instantly regret it. With her confession our marriage is again now swinging in the balance. She's terrified I'm going to leave her, and the more it sinks in to the consequences of her actions, the more upset she's becoming and the more foolish she knows she's been.

I've got absolutely no reason to suspect there has been anything more than she's told me. The morning after she cheated she messaged this man to tell him: "things are NOT good at home" in her words she was telling this guy she's told me. This guy's deactivated his FB account (as anyone would).


I want to move forward and begin repairing our marriage, although we both need to positively identify extactly why she felt she needed to spend our intimate moment with another man.


----------



## findingmyway

her respectable friends didn't notice her talking to him as the night progressed? You may want to evaluate that. Also she was cold when she got in bed. The cab or car ride home had no heat? Not sure what that proves. Perhaps her "story" is ok and her friends are not covering but I doubt it. 2 years of chating and this is the first hook up and she met with him in front of her respectable friends who all know nothing. Maybe.

I do wish you good luck.


----------



## F-102

She and the OM seem to be taking the "right" steps, and that is a good thing, but winning back your trust is going to be a very tough job for her.


----------



## morituri

You know it amazes me how some married women like to go dance clubs - meat markets - and try to pull the wool over their husbands eyes that this is completely acceptable behavior. But more amazing is their husbands acceptance of it. Would these same women like it if their husbands went to stripper joints? I seriously doubt it, especially if they tried to convince them that they were simply going there to have a few drinks, laughs, and admire beautiful young women.

Of course there are married people who can go to dance clubs and stripper joints without crossing the marital lines, but for many others it is like playing marital Russian roulette. Getting intoxicated and returning home at 4 am or later is acceptable if you are single and uncommitted but definitely NOT if you are married.

Rainshaker you can't stop your wife from going to the dance clubs, meeting old/new boyfriends, and coming home in the early morning hours, but you certainly don't have to put up with being married to her either.

:soapbox:


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## Rainshaker

findingmyway said:


> her respectable friends didn't notice her talking to him as the night progressed? You may want to evaluate that. Also she was cold when she got in bed. The cab or car ride home had no heat? Not sure what that proves. Perhaps her "story" is ok and her friends are not covering but I doubt it. 2 years of chating and this is the first hook up and she met with him in front of her respectable friends who all know nothing. Maybe.
> 
> I do wish you good luck.



I don't know how long the OM was in the club. Clubs can be very busy places - loaded with music, alot of chatting - add alcohol and unless 2 people are being publically affectionate with one another it's hard to tell whether they're just being friendly or more. We went through abit of a bad patch several weeks ago and my wife deleted me as her friend on FB, neither of us would add one another again as we're both very stubborn, and it was a bit of a laugh being married but not friends. Did the OM recently pick up on this? I don't know. 

We live approximately 1.5 miles away from city center where all the pubs and clubs, the taxi could have been roasting hot and it wouldn't have had time to heat you up if you were cold. Her friends are in many way also my firends, I've known them for as long as I've known my wife. I doubt very much they would sit by and let her go off with another man. 

It's unfortunate, but I've lost trust in my wife, and I may never know if she's telling the truth. But I will say this, our lives are fully occupied by our 3 children, and there's not a chance that she's been having an affair with this man, we've not got time for one another let alone anyone else. If we're lucky we'll get an hour of 2 each night to ourselves.

My wife's an emotional wreck ATM, I know she's extremely remorseful, but it could be interpreted as being more lies facts to come. She's very shamed by what she's done, and told me her friends don't know, and suggested that it would save me being humilated further if it remained that way. I think her friends will be seriously pissed if they find out, because she practically used them to facilitate and mask her cheating. Can you imagine how keen their husbands will be for their wives to go out again with her!


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## morituri

Rainshaker said:


> It's unfortunate, but I've lost trust in my wife, and I may never know if she's telling the truth. But I will say this, our lives are fully occupied by our 3 children, and *there's not a chance that she's been having an affair with this man, we've not got time for one another let alone anyone else.* If we're lucky we'll get an hour of 2 each night to ourselves.


No time? and what do you call the fact that she was having inappropriate electronic contact with another man?

No time? and what do you call the fact that she was able to go to a dance club, meet up with him and spend a make out session with him?

Wake up! ANY married man OR woman can have an affair and with the internet, it has become much easier. Your wife just proved that.

Sorry if my words seem harsh but you've got to open your eyes and realize that there are many other couples who were just as busy as you and your wife were and still one of them was able to make the time to have an affair.

Of course you can chose to disregard my words but you do so at your own risk.


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## 2xloser

I believe this can be resolved, with work, time, and truthfulness + MC. You're already on your way.

I also believe, howver, that you do not know the entire truth here. 

It's just SUCH a typical pattern... my own wife (once I confronted based on suspicious emails only ) "came clean" immediately and steadfastly proclaimed she "just kissed" OM "2 or 3" times... after three days of interrogation, it was actually over a dozen times, plus many more times lunching/hanging out together, in a period well over a year long... + sexting, phone sex, fondling, a truly intimate emotional affair. Including btw the fact she'd told her close friend about kissing the OM, and her close friend meeting the OM once. Never a word to me....

Nevertheless, we're attempting R. You can, too - because she is apparently remorseful. Prepare youirself; it's a long, tough road ahead for you, sir. I feel for you. But possible given what seems to have occurred. I just would not totally trust it quite yet; I'd be digging to verify and/or uncover whatever else there is to know. 

You've got to decide at some point whether you have all the facts that you want (including decising what you want to know, if there is in fact more to know). And I'd be dismissing any friend(s) that are found to be enemies of the marriage, and definitely no more GNO for her.

I'm not saying your wife slept with this guy, but I'd bet money you do not have the 100% total truth. There are lies of ommission... consciously untold as they are potentially damning + others she believe to be 'unimportant or irrelevant', and there are 'forgotten facts' that until discussed under full disclousre may not even come out. The depth of her transgression may not change as you learn it all, but the feeling of betrayal increases with every fact you find out dduring the trickle-truth time, which I believe you are smack in the midst of. 

Hope it works out for you, because this doesn't sounds like it should end your marriage. Good luck.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I hope I'm wrong. But, brace yourself.

Too many of these things don't add up.


----------



## Gabriel

The whole thing with the clubs is tough. I think 4am is ridiculous. It sounds like Rainshaker lives outside the US, or is of foreign background? Maybe it's a cultural difference. 

My wife goes out with friends and she is actually the best looking one of the bunch, so she gets hit on from time to time. She tells them she is married and has kids, or else her friends swoop in and do it for her. But I'm sure she doesn't mind the attention. It's amazing what opposite sex attention does for anyone's ego. If I got hit on, I sure would like it. But acting on it is where the test lies. One time I was at a bar with a buddy and a woman invited me up to her room at the hotel she was staying. I did not go. Simple. 
But yes it was flattering.

I am rambling but the point is GNOs should NOT be dangerous things if the marriage is okay. Half the time they come home horny - they get turned on at the club and take it out on their husbands. It's okay occasionally, as long as it's not very often, and 4am is out of control. 1-2am is reasonable. In Rainshaker's case, given what happened, she should curtail these club outings for a few months until the marriage has stabilized and trust has been earned.


----------



## 2xloser

Rainshaker said:


> I don't know how long the OM was in the club. Clubs can be very busy places - loaded with music, alot of chatting - add alcohol and unless 2 people are being publically affectionate with one another it's hard to tell whether they're just being friendly or more. We went through abit of a bad patch several weeks ago and my wife deleted me as her friend on FB, neither of us would add one another again as we're both very stubborn, and it was a bit of a laugh being married but not friends. Did the OM recently pick up on this? I don't know.
> 
> We live approximately 1.5 miles away from city center where all the pubs and clubs, the taxi could have been roasting hot and it wouldn't have had time to heat you up if you were cold. Her friends are in many way also my firends, I've known them for as long as I've known my wife. I doubt very much they would sit by and let her go off with another man.
> 
> It's unfortunate, but I've lost trust in my wife, and I may never know if she's telling the truth. But I will say this, our lives are fully occupied by our 3 children, and there's not a chance that she's been having an affair with this man, we've not got time for one another let alone anyone else. If we're lucky we'll get an hour of 2 each night to ourselves.
> 
> My wife's an emotional wreck ATM, I know she's extremely remorseful, but it could be interpreted as being more lies facts to come. She's very shamed by what she's done, and told me her friends don't know, and suggested that it would save me being humilated further if it remained that way. I think her friends will be seriously pissed if they find out, because she practically used them to facilitate and mask her cheating. Can you imagine how keen their husbands will be for their wives to go out again with her!


Dude I have to say I am struck by the dichotomy of you needing to wake up and see the realities of what you have clearly allowed yourself to miss as evidenced in this post, and the belief you state that your marriage is possibly over. 

Wake up & look in the mirror, objectively. Re-read your own posts from an outsiders persepctive, with the theory that she IS and DID have a full-blown EA with PA... see if you can see it in there, and can maybe even see why and how. 

You just so happened to be de-friended on FB as whatever this relationship with the OM escalated? You think they aren't linked events? Justifying what happens in clubs, being cold after a taxi ride 'proving' her story, allowing her to dictate how the friends and their husbands get treated or informed, and flat-out believing she couldn't have carried on a PA because there was no time is sticking your head in the sand, imho. I strongly believe there is more to come here, and you need to be prepared for it.

Cheaters are liars, expecially at first. They will only expose what they feel they have to. Problem is, THEY are not capable of defining what they have to...


----------



## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> You know it amazes me how some married women like to go dance clubs - meat markets - and try to pull the wool over their husbands eyes that this is completely acceptable behavior. But more amazing is their husbands acceptance of it. Would these same women like it if their husbands went to stripper joints? I seriously doubt it, especially if they tried to convince them that they were simply going there to have a few drinks, laughs, and admire beautiful young women.


I think because western society is conditioning males to believe that husbands who don't want or are uncomfortable with their wives going to GNOs at clubs are backward, jealous, and controlling. It's no longer acceptable or politically correct to tell your wife that you don't like her getting drunk with her friends and flirting/dancing with other men and staying out till 4am. You are denigrated as a neanderthal, or some misogynist pig who is stuck in the 50s.


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## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> The whole thing with the clubs is tough. I think 4am is ridiculous. It sounds like Rainshaker lives outside the US, or is of foreign background? Maybe it's a cultural difference.
> 
> My wife goes out with friends and she is actually the best looking one of the bunch, so she gets hit on from time to time. She tells them she is married and has kids, or else her friends swoop in and do it for her. But I'm sure she doesn't mind the attention. It's amazing what opposite sex attention does for anyone's ego. If I got hit on, I sure would like it. But acting on it is where the test lies. One time I was at a bar with a buddy and a woman invited me up to her room at the hotel she was staying. I did not go. Simple.
> But yes it was flattering.
> 
> *I am rambling but the point is GNOs should NOT be dangerous things if the marriage is okay*. Half the time they come home horny - they get turned on at the club and take it out on their husbands. It's okay occasionally, as long as it's not very often, and 4am is out of control. 1-2am is reasonable. In Rainshaker's case, given what happened, she should curtail these club outings for a few months until the marriage has stabilized and trust has been earned.


These type of GNOs can damage even the best of relationships. If you are ok with your wife's need for playing with men who want to bed her, drinking alcohol and dancing then cool. You get what you get. Is it ok for men to do this exact same thing without their wives? Even then a woman has 100% chance of hooking up if she gets even a twinge to do so. You are saying if a marriage is good she will not. I say that is wishful thinking. We can all be tempted. Add alcohol and that little spat you had this morning and poof. You may never find out of course. Why tempt it? YMMV.

This threrad is another example of the GNO being a symptom. It afforded the opportunity to be out into the wee hours, alcohol and so on. Also Facebook strikes again.

Also, not to be mean but your wife has had and may be having an EA at least. So you are comfortable with these type of GNOs. Is your wife doing these now?

Multiply your experience with your buddy by a thousand or more. Women's opportunities are way more than mens. Especailly if they are the hot one in the room. You don't worry about the first seduction. But maybe number 999. You know when you guys have had a fight, maybe you flirted with someone, she is ovulating ... whatever. Alcohol.


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## Entropy3000

Rainshaker said:


> I don't know how long the OM was in the club. *Clubs can be very busy places - loaded with music, alot of chatting - add alcohol and unless 2 people are being publically affectionate with one another it's hard to tell whether they're just being friendly or more.* We went through abit of *a bad patch several weeks ago and my wife deleted me as her friend on FB*, neither of us would add one another again as we're both very stubborn, and it was a bit of a laugh being married but not friends. Did the OM recently pick up on this? I don't know.
> 
> We live approximately 1.5 miles away from city center where all the pubs and clubs, the taxi could have been roasting hot and it wouldn't have had time to heat you up if you were cold. Her friends are in many way also my firends, I've known them for as long as I've known my wife. *I doubt very much they would sit by and let her go off with another man. *
> 
> It's unfortunate, but *I've lost trust in my wife,* and I may never know if she's telling the truth. But I will say this, our lives are fully occupied by our 3 children, and there's not a chance that she's been having an affair with this man, *we've not got time for one another let alone anyone e*lse. If we're lucky we'll get an hour of 2 each night to ourselves.
> 
> My wife's an emotional wreck ATM, I know she's extremely remorseful, but it could be interpreted as being more lies facts to come. She's very shamed by what she's done, and told me her friends don't know, and suggested that it would save me being humilated further if it remained that way. I think her friends will be seriously pissed if they find out, because she practically used them to facilitate and mask her cheating. Can you imagine how keen their husbands will be for their wives to go out again with her!


The most telling thing here is that you guys have three kids and no time for each other, yet there is time for your wife to go out clubbing. The root cause here is that you guys have not made one another a priority for each other. A woman with three kids with limited time available for her husband going out clubbing is pretty much classic. She is starved for attention. Time with friends is all well and good. GNOs aside. But friends over spouses is very dumb under any circumstances. She has plenty of time to cheat. There is a chance greater than zero this has been going on already and it has gone physical. Hopefully not. She does not have time for you. Or maybe you have no time for her. Probably both.

All marriages have strains at least from time to time. You have to take care of marriages. They explode if you don't. The wife is going to get her attention one way or another and society is going to say "you go girl". If you did the same thing these same people call you a "pig". 

Spend time with your wife. This will fall on deaf ears with most but, do not accept this type GNO period unless you are ok with your wifes needs being met by strange men.


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## Saffron

Agree that GNO shouldn't be an issue if trust has not been broken and the marriage is healthy. 

That being said, to me there's a red flag if GNO is until 4am and always at clubs. Usually my friends and I go out for dinner, a movie, and maybe once a year we go out dancing. However drinking is usually at a minimum and we're beached by midnight. Generally the GNO draw for me is actually hanging and talking with my girlfriends.

Interestingly enough, my one friend who is seriously unhappy in her marriage is the one who always wants to go dancing or stay out the latest. If we see her getting too chummy with a guy, we take her out of there asap. Even before my H cheated, I made sure friends didn't make bad decisions when I'm around. I never wanted to become a liar to cover a friend's @$$.


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## Lon

Rainshaker said:


> ...She's terrified I'm going to leave her, and the more it sinks in to the consequences of her actions, the more upset she's becoming and the more foolish she knows she's been.


Well that bodes well for you no matter what because it means you still have some control over the situation. If it is in you to forgive her there is a real chance for you both to not only reconcile over this matter but your marriage has been shaken and it presents an opportunity to change things up. Your trust in her has been compromised, but now is the time for you to start setting your boundaries, be strong, work on things and if she isn't willing to do her part to earn your trust back at least you can decide how you will proceed with a clear conscience and mind.

I for one never had that chance or control over the situation, when my W started "kissing" (was a stranger, but I don't really think I'd feel much different if it was someone I knew except maybe I'd have two to blame) she got it in her head that it was more important to follow that path than having a marriage with me, so not only am I stuck dealing with the shattered trust and visuals of my wife's affair I have the rejection and inadequacy of seeing my wife choosing some stranger over me who has been loyal, devoted and committed to her for more than 7 years, plus all the pain of having the most important thing in my life, my family, broken apart and split up.

All I got left to say to you, or anyone else that has a chance to restore their marriage, is if you can make it work then don't hesitate for a second - you will never forget this pain but forgive and use this chance to become the person you want to be, because there is nothing as amazing in the universe as two people who love each other and create a strong family.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

*ANNOUNCERS VOICE
join us again tomorrow for another episode of "Wife of 10 years kissed a stranger".

i think there is more to be found out.
the 'remorse' could just be a cover.
i really dont think an affair like she had would just end like that all of a sudden.
for me this would definitely be the end, one of us would be moving out like now.
if you are planning on trying to save the marriage, it will be lots of hard work on BOTH sides.
good luck to you in what ever you choose to do.


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## PHTlump

Gabriel said:


> I am rambling but the point is GNOs should NOT be dangerous things if the marriage is okay.


That's like claiming that if you have educated your young child about guns, then letting him play with your pistol shouldn't be a problem.

The one thing that I am absolutely, 100%, bet the farm convinced about my wife is that she is imperfect and liable to make mistakes. Given that, why would I allow her to lower her inhibitions by drinking and then flirt with other men in an atmosphere that is conducive, or even encouraging, of casual sex between strangers?

If anyone here, or anywhere else, believes that their spouse is 100% guaranteed to never cheat, no matter what, then I have some beach-front property in Arizona to sell you. I've read enough of these threads to know that every marriage is potentially at risk and only fools put their unwavering faith in their spouse's perfection.



Gabriel said:


> In Rainshaker's case, given what happened, she should curtail these club outings for a few months until the marriage has stabilized and trust has been earned.


 If your child played with your pistols and shot someone, would you curtail his use of guns for a few months? Or would you say, never again?

In the OP's case, I think GNO at clubs should be over forever. If your wife wants to have GNO with her friends, she can go to dinner with them. Maybe they can hit a coffee shop afterwards. Maybe your wife sends the kids to the grandparents and shoos you out of the house so she can host her friends at your place. If her friends balk, she can tell them that, after 10 years of marriage, she's decided to stop disrespecting her husband by acting like a 20 year-old sloot looking to get lucky.


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## Dowjones

PHTlump, we are talking about a kiss and you are talking about manslaughter? You need to get a sense of proportion, here. This is an emotional trust issue, not handgun safety.


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## Entropy3000

Dowjones said:


> PHTlump, we are talking about a kiss and you are talking about manslaughter? You need to get a sense of proportion, here. This is an emotional trust issue, not handgun safety.


Actually we are not really talking about a kiss. She has just admitted to a kiss. We are talking about someone who has been chatting with someone on Facebook. She goes to clubs for GNOs. She actually setup this rendezvous. So we are not even talking about someone having too much too drink and being gamed at a club. This was a premeditated action. Yet to be seen but a good chance it is an affair. She thought this through ... sober and acted on it. Much more serious than a drunken kiss at a club.


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## PHTlump

Dowjones said:


> PHTlump, we are talking about a kiss and you are talking about manslaughter? You need to get a sense of proportion, here. This is an emotional trust issue, not handgun safety.


Give me a break. It's a common sense issue. I don't let my kids play with guns because the odds are good that something will go wrong. I trust my kids. They're smart and well-behaved. But they don't play with guns.

In this case, GNO at a club is like a gun. And some people here are advising men to trust their wives to play with that gun. It probably won't go off. But it might. It's a hell of a chance to take.


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## Entropy3000

PHTlump said:


> Give me a break. It's a common sense issue. I don't let my kids play with guns because the odds are good that something will go wrong. I trust my kids. They're smart and well-behaved. But they don't play with guns.
> 
> In this case, GNO at a club is like a gun. And some people here are advising men to trust their wives to play with that gun. It probably won't go off. But it might. It's a hell of a chance to take.


Not to stretch your analogy, BUT, the guys at the clubs are bringing their fully loaded guns. They are full on trying to get the ladies to play. No coaxing needed on their part. Ruffies do happen folks. Just an aside. The ladies are playing with the boys. Drinking, flirting and dancing up close being groped and so on. It is a seduction. What is good about this? The excuse is she wants to chat with her friends. Huh? Some guy chatting her up under the influence of alcohol, groping her, encouraging her to take the next step and rubbing up on her. It is about game. 

Many of these guys are not just your old random dorks. They play a game. The game works. It is about testing and receiving compliance in very small but significant steps. It slowly wears down the womans resistance. Any woman can be gamed into going further than she intended if it is the right game for her. Any woman. She does need the right timing and the right conditions. Certainly some women are easier than others. Just saying there are no perfect people in this world. The smart woman knows not to play these games to begin with. Many women enjoy the games. It is fun and exciting. The excitement is that they just might take it too far.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Entropy3000, Bullseye. Well said.


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## Lon

In my mind an occasional GNO can be okay as long as it doesn't overtake a wife's desires - life is for living and some wmoen just want to dance I get that, but if a woman lets it get to the point where her absent husband has to compete with the attention of attractive males then it is a very bad situation, it is no longer a GNO it is a group of women lusting for male affection.

My wife got a little too hooked on it and started making it part of her lifestyle, I was too clueless or inhibited or something to put a stop to it or realize what it was doing to her on the inside , and she lost respect for me because I wouldn't compete (nor did she even give me the chance because she was also too clueless as to what this was all about for her).


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## F-102

If I can play devil's advocate, and sorta contradict myself-

She may be remorseful because she realized, too late, that she admitted guilt when she didn't have to, and now she's ruined her own playtime.


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## BigBadWolf

My wife, her time spent with ladies, it is not at meat markets, it is a coffee shops, their homes, or out doing a particular activity or hobby.

And even with this releatively safe occurences, the nightmare scenarios she informs me of, of some married girlfriend of hers engaging in some affair and using such events as cover for her husband, time and time again, and has been the same for many years with many different girlfriends. 

Men, I am saying these things to give anyone who doesn't already get this a wake up call. A lot of women cheat, A LOT of women cheat.

And exactly as been said, if you as a man are ever SHAMED for being aware of this simple fact, being called "controlling" or other names for simply expressing concern or for taking steps to curtail this kind of nonsense, then do not fall for it. 

Neandertal, controlling, untrusting, cave man, old fashioned, etc etc etc, all these names and a $1.50 may get you a cup of coffee as far as I am concerned. 

I could not care less.

My attitude, if any woman EVER is trying to shame me or trying to embarrass me or denigrate for being a man, or if she thinks her approval or disapproval is going to make or break me, well, I hope she not holding her breath on that matter, or mind my mild amusement at such adorable feminine assumptions. 

This should be clear to anyone who reads my posts that I encourage ALL GOOD MEN to react to shaming tactics and sh!t tests in this very same attitude. 

This is just as true with this clubbing GNO business that seems to becoming more and more the topic of infidelity on this forum. To avoid being burned, do not play with fire, and do not encourage your woman to play with fire.

Other women on GNO's, even if they do not agree with cheating, they will often cover for their girlfriends, or at the very least, be complicent by their silence. 

Men, simply do not expect your woman's girlfriends to be watchdogs for your woman, it is not their responsibility nor will it be easy for them to approach you if your woman is being indiscriminate with other men.

And this, since maybe it needs to be said:

If a woman says about some other man "we only kissed", assume automatically she has either had sex or given him a BJ. 

Then work way to the truth from that assumption, rather than the other way around. This way is less painful and sadly, much more close to reality. 

"Trickle truth", this dipping toes in truthfullness, this is nothing new and how it is for a woman to be wary of telling her man something that either make him lose his control or make her lose her relationship. It is ancient survival tactic, so men be ware of it and deal with it appropriately.

So to the OP, it is good that for whatever reason your woman is confided to you about her indiscretions, and is showing remorse.

Now I encourage you to not fall short to take full steps to address this issue in your marriage, with strength and courage, and brace yourself for the hard business of dealing with an EA and PA.


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## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> In my mind an occasional GNO can be okay as long as it doesn't overtake a wife's desires - life is for living and some wmoen just want to dance I get that, but if a woman lets it get to the point where her absent husband has to compete with the attention of attractive males then it is a very bad situation, it is no longer a GNO it is a group of women lusting for male affection.
> 
> My wife got a little too hooked on it and started making it part of her lifestyle, I was too clueless or inhibited or something to put a stop to it or realize what it was doing to her on the inside , and she lost respect for me because I wouldn't compete (nor did she even give me the chance because she was also too clueless as to what this was all about for her).


I actually think women are very naive about this stuff. They think they can control things and it will not get out of hand.

You fell into the trap that we are talking about.

I don't know how this can be a regular thing for wives and it not immediately be a competition for the husband. It is natures way. Women are wired to do this. If they are playing with other men you are automatically being challenged by the young buck(s). His criteria for success is so low. He has to put in minimal effort. You on the other hand are only as good as your last screw up. The whole point of going to the meat market is to play with this fire. It is not to chat with the girls. It is play with the guys.

Women do cheat. They also revise history. So society accepts it much of the time. 32% of women cheat!? Not so sure that is accurate but if it is I wonder of the women clubbing does that number go up? Or down. What do you think?


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## Lon

Entropy3000 said:


> I actually think women are very naive about this stuff. They think they can control things and it will not get out of hand.


Yeah, my eyes were opened. I used to think my wife was stronger than that too, but I've seen how quickly she let it get out of hand and she is now so far out of control I think its a fire that just has to let it burn itself out.


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## Gabriel

The gun analogy is not applicable here. These are adults. Adults make conscious choices. If you want to use the gun analogy you have to put the gun in the hand of an adult, not a child. And when you do that, the analogy sounds really silly, doesn't it?

Here's the thing. An occasional GNO dancing or whatever, to me, isn't a big deal. But when it becomes a part of her lifestyle, then we have a problem, Houston. That is a HUGE red flag.

Maybe we are different ages, but if your wives only go to each other's houses and coffee shops, you have a grandma life over there. Girls like to have fun. And "clubs" is relative. A full fledged meat market is a problem. Going to a bar that has a dance floor/scene as part of the night, is a different thing. It kind of depends on the club. I can see people getting pretty bent out of shape about "those" kind of clubs where the only purpose is to get laid. I agree with that. But there are lots of bars where the people go to hear the music, drink beer, and maybe cut a rug for awhile. I don't have so much a problem with that, OCCASIONALLY. And 4am is never okay. I used to get pissed if my wife came home after 1:30am - which was like maybe 2-3 times in 10 years.


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## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> The gun analogy is not applicable here. These are adults. Adults make conscious choices. If you want to use the gun analogy you have to put the gun in the hand of an adult, not a child. And when you do that, the analogy sounds really silly, doesn't it?
> 
> Here's the thing. An occasional GNO dancing or whatever, to me, isn't a big deal. But when it becomes a part of her lifestyle, then we have a problem, Houston. That is a HUGE red flag.
> 
> Maybe we are different ages, but if your wives only go to each other's houses and coffee shops, you have a grandma life over there. *Girls like to have fun. * And "clubs" is relative. A full fledged meat market is a problem. Going to a bar that has a dance floor/scene as part of the night, is a different thing. It kind of depends on the club. I can see people getting pretty bent out of shape about "those" kind of clubs where the only purpose is to get laid. I agree with that. But there are lots of bars where the people go to hear the music, drink beer, and maybe cut a rug for awhile. I don't have so much a problem with that, OCCASIONALLY. *And 4am is never okay. I used to get pissed if my wife came home after 1:30am - which was like maybe 2-3 times in 10 years*.


Girls just wanna have fun!!! Yes .... they .... do!!!! Guys = Fun.

So the wife playing with the boys occasionally is ok. Ok. Well there is some goodness here with this boundary. It cuts way down on the addictiveness of this activity. It sure limits the wife meeting up with regulars and making relationships. So you do have boundaries around this. Awesome. This sounds creepy but try to make sure the wife is not ovulataing when they do these things. It puts the odds back in your favor. By a bunch. If a woman is going to be tempted she will be at this time. But I agree that it is the GNO life style that is so insidious.

I do think that GNOs have exploded and now are accepted with those in their 20s. They expect to keep acting single within a marriage. Women seem entitled to be what some of us refer to as cake eaters. They want the security of the hubby with the excitement of looking for that bigger, better deal.

FWIW, some guys wives are doing this at least once per week, not telling them where they are going or when they will be back and are very secretive about this whole thing. One big thing with GNOs of this type is to totally cut off contact with SO. That is the point. I actually get that. But it does add to the fantasy of taking a break from the marriage and acting single. I guess if a wife can date and play with guys as if she were single on a weekly basis and have hubby home watching the kids and being her security blanket -- Then you go girl


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## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> Yeah, my eyes were opened. I used to think my wife was stronger than that too, but I've seen how quickly she let it get out of hand and she is now so far out of control I think its a fire that just has to let it burn itself out.


I don't know your story. In a nut shell what part of your situation did the clubbing play? I guess I am asking was it just a symptom of bigger issues? An enabler or even a catalyst to go down the wrong path? If you had stepped in sooner could the outcome have been any different or was it just inevitable?


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## Gabriel

Entropy - I can't tell when you are turning the sarcasm on and off in that post. BTW, I completely agree with your last paragraph. Completely. GNOs are way too common and causing lots of problems. Their response, of course, is to say, "What's the matter? Don't you trust me?" And if you are not one of us (you know, cuckholds), it's hard to argue with that statement until you are, and then it's too late.


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## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> Entropy - I can't tell when you are turning the sarcasm on and off in that post. BTW, I completely agree with your last paragraph. Completely. GNOs are way too common and causing lots of problems. Their response, of course, is to say, "What's the matter? Don't you trust me?" And if you are not one of us (you know, cuckholds), it's hard to argue with that statement until you are, and then it's too late.


<sarcasm off>
Actually I do sincerely apologize for that. I have been that way all my life and frankly that can be more than annoying for other folks. Seriously. So I do appreciate you calling me on it. I very much do swing from sarcasm to serious and I am not even sure if I know for sure. LOL.

A lot of times folks chat about this stuff and end up violently agreeing. I find this whole GNO thing to have become an interesting battleground. When someone says GNO they tend to mean something that has a very broad definition. I just think it is good for us guys to know exactly what that GNO is for our wives and and in a loving way help protect the marriage from any unintended consequences. 

<sarcasm on>
Women seem to be under added pressure these days to prove to their peers they have equal standing with men and sometimes they go a little overboard. Men have had many years of practice being sleazy


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## Lon

Entropy3000 said:


> I don't know your story. In a nut shell what part of your situation did the clubbing play? I guess I am asking was it just a symptom of bigger issues? An enabler or even a catalyst to go down the wrong path? If you had stepped in sooner could the outcome have been any different or was it just inevitable?


Don't want to get into the backstory, too long to write it all out, clubbing was a HUGE part of our breakdown in marriage. It was a bit of a symptom of her avoidance of her family, parental and spousal responsibilities. It wasn't "always" the club, but it was always a GNO either at a restaurant, lounge or fast food place - the clubs were usually atleast once a week though. It started as hip-hop dance class several nights a week, then after the first year dropped to one or two nights, but they'd always go out after. I don't really know most of those friends in her life except for a couple, most are 20'ish (she's 31). When she was home in the evenings she was usually getting made up up to go the the club as the suppers I often made went cold and my son and I ate alone. Nights that I was given "permission" to go out and do something she knew I wouldn't actually take advantage of so she just made plans on those nights too.

Would it have been any different if I had been able to step in sooner?? Yeah definitely though I'm not sure how much "better" because honestly I'm seeing all the flags I missed on her and realizing she is pretty lousy marriage material, at least for me. I've always loved her and thought she is amazing, thought we'd compliment each other so much but I guess she thinks she is some kind of trophy wife, for awhile now I've found out she has been telling mutual friends that she thinks she is so much better than me... definitely not the equality needed in a marriage. I'm sure I was difficult, especially as I'd become the doormat and lost my drive in life, had some frustrating health issues too, were sleeping in different beds... It feels like it took a LOT of different enablers for her to get on this path, which makes me realize we had a lot of things that made our relationship stick together, or else it was just all my contributions were really just me trying to keep us glued together across the gap somehow. Couldn't hold together under all that weight I guess. She was feeling emotionally abandoned and I was physically abandoned, when things finally let loose for her it so happened to be while she was making out with some fantasy guy at a night club, and so began the PA#1 and her deciding she is better off alone... now she's without me I guess we'll see of all the contributions I felt like I was putting in accounted for much in her life after all.


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## findingmyway

Too many parts of this don't add up in my feable brain. This can't be the whole story yet. However, I'm not sure you actually want to find out anything else? 

Good luck


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## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> Don't want to get into the backstory, too long to write it all out, clubbing was a HUGE part of our breakdown in marriage. It was a bit of a symptom of her avoidance of her family, parental and spousal responsibilities. It wasn't "always" the club, but it was always a GNO either at a restaurant, lounge or fast food place - the clubs were usually atleast once a week though. It started as hip-hop dance class several nights a week, then after the first year dropped to one or two nights, but they'd always go out after. I don't really know most of those friends in her life except for a couple, most are 20'ish (she's 31). When she was home in the evenings she was usually getting made up up to go the the club as the suppers I often made went cold and my son and I ate alone. Nights that I was given "permission" to go out and do something she knew I wouldn't actually take advantage of so she just made plans on those nights too.
> 
> Would it have been any different if I had been able to step in sooner?? Yeah definitely though I'm not sure how much "better" because honestly I'm seeing all the flags I missed on her and realizing she is pretty lousy marriage material, at least for me. I've always loved her and thought she is amazing, thought we'd compliment each other so much but I guess she thinks she is some kind of trophy wife, for awhile now I've found out she has been telling mutual friends that she thinks she is so much better than me... definitely not the equality needed in a marriage. I'm sure I was difficult, especially as I'd become the doormat and lost my drive in life, had some frustrating health issues too, were sleeping in different beds... It feels like it took a LOT of different enablers for her to get on this path, which makes me realize we had a lot of things that made our relationship stick together, or else it was just all my contributions were really just me trying to keep us glued together across the gap somehow. Couldn't hold together under all that weight I guess. She was feeling emotionally abandoned and I was physically abandoned, when things finally let loose for her it so happened to be while she was making out with some fantasy guy at a night club, and so began the PA#1 and her deciding she is better off alone... now she's without me I guess we'll see of all the contributions I felt like I was putting in accounted for much in her life after all.


Wow. Very sorry to hear this. She just was not the right one for you. Hope you can get you life back on track and find someone worth your while if you have not already.


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## Lon

FMW, is that directed at OP?


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## 8yearscheating

With all the guessing and conjecture going on here, I think the primary thing you need to do is investigate. By the OM killing his Facebook account he has destroyed all of his posts to her but hers to him. The first thing I would do is contact the OM's wife and have her force him to re-activate his account and then both of you (you and OM's wife) read all of the messages and posts. The messages may be gone but maybe not. Second thing is to go online with your cell phone carrier and print out the last year or as far as you can go back cell calls and text message listings. Print out her address book from the phone and mark all the calls and texts as to who they were. You will instantly see high volumes and who they were. If it was truly limited to FB you won't see the OM's number or high repeats. Lastly check her email and include the trash and filed and sent messages. By doing all this you will get a better picture of how truthful she is being. If she has an iPhone, google read deleted texts and textpad. Follow the instructions before the phone is synced again then again after it's synced. If you want to be sure it's over, install spy software on her phone. Lastly DO NOT REVEAL ANYTHING YOU FIND OR HOW YOU FOUND IT. If you do find anything ask only leading questions and give her a chance to be honest. If you reveal what you know and how you found out she could slam those doors and go further underground so KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Trust but verify my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

Oh and definitely reveal to OM's wife and establish communication so the two of can monitor together and keep each other informed OMW should do all the same things I suggested to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

Gabriel said:


> The gun analogy is not applicable here. These are adults. Adults make conscious choices. If you want to use the gun analogy you have to put the gun in the hand of an adult, not a child. And when you do that, the analogy sounds really silly, doesn't it?


Nope. The analogy is appropriate because of the risk. A child playing with a gun is risky. A married woman carousing in a dance club is risky. Get it?



Gabriel said:


> Maybe we are different ages, but if your wives only go to each other's houses and coffee shops, you have a grandma life over there. Girls like to have fun.


I'm in my thirties. So, I'm old enough to act responsibly. Marriage is a responsibility. Girls like to have fun. But married girls have a responsibility to their husbands to honor and respect them. Putting oneself in a situation that is conducive to adultery is not respectful of one's husband.

And the standard applies to men as well. Men like to chase women. But after the wedding, that behavior should stop. Not chasing women isn't really a grandpa life. It's married life.


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## jnj express

Whatever you decide---if it is to stay---there must be accountability, and consequences

You MUST take away ANYTHING that puts your mge., at risk, and her in harms way

That means---all social websites get shut down----there is no need to send messages back and forth that can turn into problems----

If she wants to be with her GF's it is in the daytime, to lunch--a movie, a sporting event, a museum---NO BARS, or clubs---Alcohol, dancing put her in harms way

Actually from now on ALL her socializing is to be done with you and you alone----if her GF's put 2 and 2 together, cuz of her boundaries---so be it

Married women DO NOT COME HOME AT 4 a m under any circumstances

It doesn't matter what it was kiss or not---the dealbreaker, was that she she wantonly planned, and met another man---saying to herself---who cares about my H., and kids----I am gonna see this guy, whether my family likes it or not-----for that alone---there must be consequences, and accountability.


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## Dowjones

PHTlump said:


> Nope. The analogy is appropriate because of the risk. A child playing with a gun is risky. A married woman carousing in a dance club is risky. Get it?
> 
> 
> I'm in my thirties. So, I'm old enough to act responsibly. Marriage is a responsibility. Girls like to have fun. But married girls have a responsibility to their husbands to honor and respect them. Putting oneself in a situation that is conducive to adultery is not respectful of one's husband.
> 
> And the standard applies to men as well. Men like to chase women. But after the wedding, that behavior should stop. Not chasing women isn't really a grandpa life. It's married life.


All behavior can be risky, Lump, so what's your point? A child cannot make a mature decision but an adult can and presumably does, so your analogy is ridiculous. Statistically you are more likely to be exposed to adulterers in church, Sunday morning, than you are at a club on Friday night. So to prevent her from being around cheaters, would you not want her to go to church? GNO's are no different than guys going to a ballgame or fishing trip, or girls having a "hen party", it's not the setting , it's what's in the woman's mind. Most women go out, drink a few, and have some laughs. If she is kissing another man, she could just as easily do it in her or his car, or anywhere else. The problem that the OP has isn't with the GNO's, it's with his woman's honesty.


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## the guy

I aggree Dow, it is the persons moral compass that matters,but why pure gas on a fire? I really believe it is *also* the enviorment that is.....shall i say not helpful to the resentment that *could* be generated by a spouse going to a bar/club with out ones spouse.

Yes my cheating wife could sleep with the pastor just as easy as sleeping with the bartentar, but I would think that the bartender has better game to suduce my drunk wife then the pastor. I think its law of propability. 

In my opinion, I would have less resentment if the GNO was at a church function, during the day, rather then a disco all night.

Lets face it, if the shoe was on the other foot, I could go out all day with the guys and have less grief then if I went out all night!


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## PHTlump

Dowjones said:


> All behavior can be risky, Lump, so what's your point?


The point is that some behavior is more risky than other behavior.



Dowjones said:


> A child cannot make a mature decision but an adult can and presumably does, so your analogy is ridiculous.


Wrong. Adults make mistakes. Adults who drink and surround themselves by other adults seeking casual sex make mistakes. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.



Dowjones said:


> Statistically you are more likely to be exposed to adulterers in church, Sunday morning, than you are at a club on Friday night. So to prevent her from being around cheaters, would you not want her to go to church?


That's an interesting claim. What's your source?



Dowjones said:


> GNO's are no different than guys going to a ballgame or fishing trip, or girls having a "hen party", it's not the setting , it's what's in the woman's mind. Most women go out, drink a few, and have some laughs. If she is kissing another man, she could just as easily do it in her or his car, or anywhere else. The problem that the OP has isn't with the GNO's, it's with his woman's honesty.


Seriously? How many ballgames or fishing trips have you seen where women interested in casual sex frequently approach men? That's a ridiculous claim.

And yes, a wife could kiss a man in her car. Do you know many wives that drink and drive while playing sexy music and giving men seeking casual sex rides? That seems like a very unusual situation to me.

It seems like you have a misunderstanding of how cheating happens. Do you believe that all cheating happens because of pre-planned activity? Do you think that all cheating spouses wake up and say to themselves, "Today's the day! No matter where I am or who I am with, I will cheat on my spouse?" If so, I have to say that is a ludicrous belief.


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## Dowjones

PHTlump said:


> The point is that some behavior is more risky than other behavior.
> 
> 
> Wrong. Adults make mistakes. Adults who drink and surround themselves by other adults seeking casual sex make mistakes. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.
> 
> 
> That's an interesting claim. What's your source?
> 
> 
> Seriously? How many ballgames or fishing trips have you seen where women interested in casual sex frequently approach men? That's a ridiculous claim.
> 
> And yes, a wife could kiss a man in her car. Do you know many wives that drink and drive while playing sexy music and giving men seeking casual sex rides? That seems like a very unusual situation to me.
> 
> It seems like you have a misunderstanding of how cheating happens. Do you believe that all cheating happens because of pre-planned activity? Do you think that all cheating spouses wake up and say to themselves, "Today's the day! No matter where I am or who I am with, I will cheat on my spouse?" If so, I have to say that is a ludicrous belief.


Dude, are you familiar, at all , with equal rights? What are you going to do? chain her to the house? Women go out on GNO's to drink and have a little fun, period. Most women, are not looking to kiss another man, and if they are, that is their problem, not the Bar's or the other women in the group, or the music, or the dancing. Cheating is the problem of the cheater, and if he/she is going to do it, they can and will do it anywhere. Your idea that drinking, music and other women caused the OP's woman to kiss the other guy is preposterous. This was indeed a pre-planned event. She just accidently slapped lips with an old bf? Bull****! Had that old bf not been there, she could have been to a thousand GNO's, and nothing would have happened. It clearly was not the GNO that caused her to cheat, it was the woman and her exbf that cheated. My wife has NEVER been on a GNO, yet she had an EA, while I have been "out with the guys ", many times and never done so.
If you have to regulate who your woman sees, where she goes or what she does, because you don't trust her, that is your business, but most of us don't want to live like that. The best advice I can give the OP is to find out why she kissed him, rather than blaming the other variables. Drinking, music, GNO's aren't to blame......she is.


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## jnj express

Hey DJ---you are right as to this situation---it was a pre-planned meeting

You are somewhat off base---if you think GNO's in bars, clubs, and dancehalls are innocent

There are thousands, upon thousands, of illicit meetings, infidelities, and events of cheating that come out of these nights out---that are never reported

Take all the websites on the net, combined---and you get one-millionth of the actual occurances of infidelity---look at the Divorce figures---and believe me a great % of D., stems from infidelity!!!!

Bottom line is the married woman is with a strange man---IT MAKES NO DIFFERNECE what she does, whether it be flirt, and drink, or dance, or kiss and hug, or the start of illicit sex later in the evening---it all boils down to that woman is with a man who IS NOT her H.

Men when they go out---play cards, participate in sports, go to the races, participate in hobbies, they do things like that

Why can't women get together for the same things, no they gotta go get liquored up, and look for men---putting the mge., at risk, and themselves in harms way

I am sorry but a responsible wife needs to tell her GF's if they want her company, it is not to be at meatmarkets---at least that is what a responsible wife SHOULD DO---how many responsible wife's we have out there these days---WHO KNOWS??????


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## PHTlump

Dowjones said:


> Dude, are you familiar, at all , with equal rights? What are you going to do? chain her to the house?


I have never said women don't have the right to cheat. They absolutely do.



Dowjones said:


> Women go out on GNO's to drink and have a little fun, period.


I agree. Drinking and dancing with men who are looking for casual sex is fun for women. I don't deny that.



Dowjones said:


> Most women, are not looking to kiss another man, and if they are, that is their problem, not the Bar's or the other women in the group, or the music, or the dancing.


I agree that most women aren't looking to cheat. I'll even say that a fair percentage of the women who do end up cheating don't go out looking to cheat. And I have never said that the bar, or their friends, or anybody else has a problem with the activity. It's mainly the husbands that have the problem.



Dowjones said:


> Cheating is the problem of the cheater, and if he/she is going to do it, they can and will do it anywhere. Your idea that drinking, music and other women caused the OP's woman to kiss the other guy is preposterous.


What is preposterous is your contention that cheating is more likely to happen in church than at a club. For your own education, you should do a little research into how environment affects behavior. It's a very interesting field. You can learn how casinos use certain colors and sounds to induce people to stay longer and gamble more.



Dowjones said:


> This was indeed a pre-planned event. She just accidently slapped lips with an old bf? Bull****! Had that old bf not been there, she could have been to a thousand GNO's, and nothing would have happened. It clearly was not the GNO that caused her to cheat, it was the woman and her exbf that cheated. My wife has NEVER been on a GNO, yet she had an EA, while I have been "out with the guys ", many times and never done so.


You are correct that this was a pre-planned event. But, I have to wonder why the OP's wife arranged to meet the other man at GNO? Why not hook up at church, where cheating is much more prevalent? 

As for going on a thousand GNOs, I guess we'll never know. I guess someone could play Russian roulette a thousand times and never lose. But it wouldn't be me or my wife. It's just too risky.

And I've already addressed going out with the guys. Playing golf with other men is not the same as dancing with women who are looking for casual sex. How can you think it is?



Dowjones said:


> If you have to regulate who your woman sees, where she goes or what she does, because you don't trust her, that is your business, but most of us don't want to live like that. The best advice I can give the OP is to find out why she kissed him, rather than blaming the other variables. Drinking, music, GNO's aren't to blame......she is.


As I said before in this thread, I trust that my wife is fallible. If you wish to believe that yours is not, I think you're being foolish.

Again, environment influences behavior. You shouldn't take an alcoholic to a bar and then insist that he would have had a drink if you had taken him to an AA meeting instead. It amazes me that you're even trying to argue the point. :scratchhead:


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## Dowjones

PHTlump said:


> I have never said women don't have the right to cheat. They absolutely do.
> 
> 
> I agree. Drinking and dancing with men who are looking for casual sex is fun for women. I don't deny that.
> 
> 
> I agree that most women aren't looking to cheat. I'll even say that a fair percentage of the women who do end up cheating don't go out looking to cheat. And I have never said that the bar, or their friends, or anybody else has a problem with the activity. It's mainly the husbands that have the problem.
> 
> 
> What is preposterous is your contention that cheating is more likely to happen in church than at a club. For your own education, you should do a little research into how environment affects behavior. It's a very interesting field. You can learn how casinos use certain colors and sounds to induce people to stay longer and gamble more.
> 
> 
> You are correct that this was a pre-planned event. But, I have to wonder why the OP's wife arranged to meet the other man at GNO? Why not hook up at church, where cheating is much more prevalent?
> 
> As for going on a thousand GNOs, I guess we'll never know. I guess someone could play Russian roulette a thousand times and never lose. But it wouldn't be me or my wife. It's just too risky.
> 
> And I've already addressed going out with the guys. Playing golf with other men is not the same as dancing with women who are looking for casual sex. How can you think it is?
> 
> 
> As I said before in this thread, I trust that my wife is fallible. If you wish to believe that yours is not, I think you're being foolish.
> 
> Again, environment influences behavior. You shouldn't take an alcoholic to a bar and then insist that he would have had a drink if you had taken him to an AA meeting instead. It amazes me that you're even trying to argue the point. :scratchhead:


Dude, your analogies are full of it. We aren't talking about taking an alcoholic to a bar, a gambler to a casino, putting a gun into a child's hands, or any other of the off the wall scenerios you are using. We are talking about reasonably intelligent, mature women going out for drinks, that's it. My wife isn't infallible, but I don't imagine that just because she is in a bar, that she will somehow turn into an insatiable, lustfilled, cheater, like you seem to think happens. Apparently you don't believe in personal responsibility? This kiss was HER and the Bf's fault, nobody else's. Not the other ladies, not the bar, not the GNO phenomenon, not the drinks, Nothing else.


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## Dowjones

BTW, if you are going to use my words, use them in context. I NEVER said that cheating took place in Church. I said that cheaters were present in church. Big difference.


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## Entropy3000

If a man knows what is up with GNOs ( meat market version ) and he is ok with, then great. But if he is not ok with his wife doing this he should not be berated for it. He has every right to not want his wife to be dating other men.

That said we all know some men like being cuckholded.

Anyway, I am glad it was not the GNO that caused this problem this time. It was a convenient excuse / cover which is part of why many of us think it is at least a symptom. But no matter, this was a pre-mediated event that had been brewing. Maybe we can chalk it up to Facebook.

But ultimatley this is indeed a case of a cheater owning thier behavior.

Sorry it happened dude. Hope you can get this stuff ironed out.


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## PHTlump

Dowjones said:


> Dude, your analogies are full of it. We aren't talking about taking an alcoholic to a bar, a gambler to a casino, putting a gun into a child's hands, or any other of the off the wall scenerios you are using. We are talking about reasonably intelligent, mature women going out for drinks, that's it.


I think I see your problem now. You don't understand what analogies are. Analogies are using one or more features (like risk) of two things (like GNO and alcoholics in bars) to make a comparison. Insisting that all features be similar isn't an analogy. It's an anecdote.



Dowjones said:


> My wife isn't infallible, but I don't imagine that just because she is in a bar, that she will somehow turn into an insatiable, lustfilled, cheater, like you seem to think happens. Apparently you don't believe in personal responsibility? This kiss was HER and the Bf's fault, nobody else's. Not the other ladies, not the bar, not the GNO phenomenon, not the drinks, Nothing else.


I think I see your other problem now. You don't understand what risk is. Risk doesn't mean that every woman that walks into a bar turns into a cheater. It means that women are more likely to cheat in an environment that encourages casual sex than in an environment that doesn't.

And I do believe in personal responsibility. I believe that personal responsibility should influence all of a person's decisions, like where to go for GNO. I don't believe, as you seem to, that personal responsibility seems to magically happen when women behave irresponsibly by drinking and shaking their butts in the faces of men seeking casual sex.


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## golfergirl

PHTlump said:


> I think I see your problem now. You don't understand what analogies are. Analogies are using one or more features (like risk) of two things (like GNO and alcoholics in bars) to make a comparison. Insisting that all features be similar isn't an analogy. It's an anecdote.
> 
> 
> I think I see your other problem now. You don't understand what risk is. Risk doesn't mean that every woman that walks into a bar turns into a cheater. It means that women are more likely to cheat in an environment that encourages casual sex than in an environment that doesn't.
> 
> And I do believe in personal responsibility. I believe that personal responsibility should influence all of a person's decisions, like where to go for GNO. I don't believe, as you seem to, that personal responsibility seems to magically happen when women behave irresponsibly by drinking and shaking their butts in the faces of men seeking casual sex.


What a waste of a good read! All this arguing as to whether these analogies are spot on or not.... Geez. 
She cheated, I don't think you have the truth. I agree with 8 years to investigate further so you can see what you're dealing with and not the trickle truths she's letting out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

I agree completely Golfer - these folks need to take this debate elsewhere. Let's focus on what this man needs and get off the philosophy soapbox for God's sake.


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## Dowjones

Lump, I think I see YOUR problem. You are an insecure , control freak, who can't stand the idea that your SO will make her own choices, without your approval and supervision. BTW, I understand completely , what analogies are, I just think yours are ridiculous. I'm done with that, though. I agree with Golfer and 8, this isn't helping the OP. My advice is to not make any decisions regarding your marriage, until you are as sure as you can be, that you have ALL the facts. Most importantly, you need to find out WHY she did it, and not settle for any excuses, because GNO, old BF, drinking, none of these are an excuse for cheating. Then decide if YOU want to repair it or not. If you do, then I would suggest counseling. I would also suggest that you get in touch with the old BF and make sure he knows to stay away from your wife or else.


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## 8yearscheating

DO NOT confront him face to face. Nothing good can come of it other than landing your a$$ in jail to think about how stupid you were.


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## PHTlump

Dowjones said:


> Lump, I think I see YOUR problem. You are an insecure , control freak, who can't stand the idea that your SO will make her own choices, without your approval and supervision. BTW, I understand completely , what analogies are, I just think yours are ridiculous.


DJ, I can forgive your ignorance. What I can't forgive is your willful, indignant ignorance. However, I'll leave the thread by restating the obvious truth. Environment influences behavior. Arguing that it doesn't is akin to arguing that wives aren't influenced by the law of gravity (another analogy for those who can grasp it). 

I agree that we're not addressing the OP's situation. However, there may be some men reading the thread who have wives engaged in the risky and disrespectful behavior of partying with their girlfriends and men seeking casual sex. To those men, I hope the truth can hit home before it's too late.


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## 8yearscheating

Get OFF IT PHTlump. Start your own damn thread.


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## F-102

Hey, Rainshaker, how YOU doing? Seems that everyone else hijacked this thread.


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## SeriousThinker

Initfortheduration said:


> Don't leave her over that. I would tell her this though. "You are going to take a polygraph test, and based on the results I am scheduling a battery of tests for STDs and your coming with me". When I get to the doctors office I would boldly go up to the receptionist and tell her in a loud voice (the more people in the office the better) "We're here for our sexually transmitted disease test because my wife cheated on me". When she turns red and almost faints from shame, and asks you why you said it so loud and what must people think of her. Tell her "I'll wager that there were more people in the bar that night then are in this office now. It's funny that you feel shame over what I SAID when the real shame is what you DID. Its called consequences, deal with it."
> 
> I would also remove her from all bank accounts and credit cards. If you can't trust her with her tongue when shes out of sight, how can you trust her with your money. Make her earn your trust back. There has to be some discomfort for her actions.


You are kidding, right? Cause that would pretty much ruin a relationship. 

There is no need to go to such extremes. It was just a kiss and she feels really guilty about it. I agree with the MC idea and maybe try communicating more. Maybe you two don't have enough time alone together? She might just miss YOU.


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## lordmayhem

SeriousThinker said:


> You are kidding, right? Cause that would pretty much ruin a relationship.
> 
> There is no need to go to such extremes. It was just a kiss and she feels really guilty about it. I agree with the MC idea and maybe try communicating more. Maybe you two don't have enough time alone together? She might just miss YOU.


These are the facts:

1. OM is an old high school flame that she reconnected with on facebook, one of the most common types of affairs these days. This admission is only after she first LIED and said it was a stranger. Big red flag.

2. Her and her friends go out to GNOs at bars on a regular basis, and she just happens to meet up with this OM at the bar. Too much of a coincidence.

3. After merely "kissing" OM once, she disappears from her friends, then gets home at a different time than her friends. Big red flag here.

4. She goes to pieces after supposedly "kissing" OM once? Suspicious behavior and is another red flag.

Have you heard of Trickle Truth (TT)? Where the WS minimizes their actions and only admits to one tiny thing? It's like finding the tip of the iceberg. Reconnecting with OM then running into him at the bar certainly indicates that they planned to meet there, that she used her GFs as cover. Then her overreaction to the supposed "one time kiss" shows that she feels guilty over so much more. And it usually is.

That's why everyone here is saying there is a lot more to this than the OP knows.


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## SeriousThinker

lordmayhem said:


> These are the facts:
> 
> 1. OM is an old high school flame that she reconnected with on facebook, one of the most common types of affairs these days. This admission is only after she first LIED and said it was a stranger. Big red flag.
> 
> 2. Her and her friends go out to GNOs at bars on a regular basis, and she just happens to meet up with this OM at the bar. Too much of a coincidence.
> 
> 3. After merely "kissing" OM once, she disappears from her friends, then gets home at a different time than her friends. Big red flag here.
> 
> 4. She goes to pieces after supposedly "kissing" OM once? Suspicious behavior and is another red flag.
> 
> Have you heard of Trickle Truth (TT)? Where the WS minimizes their actions and only admits to one tiny thing? It's like finding the tip of the iceberg. Reconnecting with OM then running into him at the bar certainly indicates that they planned to meet there, that she used her GFs as cover. Then her overreaction to the supposed "one time kiss" shows that she feels guilty over so much more. And it usually is.
> 
> That's why everyone here is saying there is a lot more to this than the OP knows.


My apologies, I apparently thought this was a newer topic and didn't notice the forum length. Stupid mistake, my bad. However, my comment was valid with the information I had at the time I posted it, but certainly not valid now. Thank you for the update and making a very solid point. 

Despite this I still don't think total embarressment is the way to go unless you want to end the relationship indefinately.


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## lordmayhem

SeriousThinker said:


> My apologies, I apparently thought this was a newer topic and didn't notice the forum length. Stupid mistake, my bad. However, my comment was valid with the information I had at the time I posted it, but certainly not valid now. Thank you for the update and making a very solid point.
> 
> Despite this I still don't think total embarressment is the way to go unless you want to end the relationship indefinately.


No problem, it happens. Having the WW take a polygraph is common for those who can afford it, it takes away all uncertainty and it proves that the WS is absolutely serious about regaining and rebuilding trust. 

If this WW is as serious as she says she is, she would have no problem agreeing to a poly. Otherwise its an act, and those tears she shed are crocodile tears.


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## 8yearscheating

SO where is Rainshaker?


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## Rainshaker

> So where is Rainshaker?


I'm here  Well guys, what is there to say? I spoke to my wife last week ad it was incredibly emotional - a lot of shouting, anger and fustration from my side. I explained to her if she hadn't been 100% truthful to me, it wouldn't matter if it was another tens years down the line, that if I ever found out she had lied about one detail of her encountrer with the OM our marraige would be over. She swore there and then that she had told me the whole truth and there was nothing else. 

My wife was in many respects before we met a mummy and daddy's girl. She had practically lived at home all her life with the exception of moving out once to live with her girlfriend for a short periond. She doesn't talk much about her previous relationships and I suspect she hasn't had many relationships. Although a very attractive woman she lacked confidence in a big way 

Why was she so remorseful? Whilst we were having our emotional chat she blurted out angrily how stupid she was for jeopardizing our marriage over a stupid kiss. She was angry with herself. I know my wife, and I beleive her account of what happened. She's told me the area where the OM lives, but has asked me not to go around as he too has children. Will I? I suspect eventually yes, you know to let his wife know what he's done. Why should he get off the hook so easily!

What's happened has happened... I consider myself lucky that it didn't go any further, as let's be honest, they could have slept together in different circumstances. There will be many who will suspect she did more than she's admitting, but I know my wife, and I know she's telling the truth. I have forgiven her because I know she deeply regretted what happened, and because she was brutally honest with me. Although if it had been someone else who had told me it would have been a different ball game.

Our marriage has slowly been going down hill, we spoke about what he disliked about one another, and why we have been like we have with one another - we've both learn't a lot. Like most couple over the years we've both gained a few pounds which I beleive has contributed greatly to our lack of sex life. Being overweight, working long hours, drinking too much, 3 demanding small children to bring up.. it's all going to strain our marriage.

Like I said, I've forgiven my wife, and we've both promised to work at it. I've since lost weight (15lbs) and don't I know it! My wife can't believe how different I look and our sex life is back on track. She can't keep her hands off me and tells me she's making up for lost time. 

It is an unfortunate fact that if you don't feed the kitty it will go next door. Sorry if it sounds crude, but women and men have their needs I guess. There is of course a lot more to it, like looking after youself in general, finding the time for one another, making an effort to look good etc...

I hope others will learn from my experience. 


Rainshaker


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## 8yearscheating

Great for you Rainshaker. Keep up with the self improvement and that ESPECIALLY means cherishing your wife and understanding her needs and issues with your marriage. You need to work especially ahrd int he issues to help make your marriage 1000% open and honest. There MUST be NOTHING the two of you dismiss as not important about the other. You especially need to understand what her issues are and make damn sure she opens up about them and you address them FULLY. DO NOT DISMISS HER FEELINGS>>>EVER. It may sound back a$$wards, she is the one who cheated. But there was a reason why. And she will be very reluctant to open up thinking it is all her problem - you must draw her out. You must also make sure she explain WHY it happened. In that explanation there will be things you MUST address in yourself. 

Iam so happy for the two of you. Please do not fall back into old habits. Keep EVERYTHING fully transparent for both fo you regarding account names and passwords. Stay eyes wide open!


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## Eli-Zor

Time to move forward close the remaining door, expose him to his wife , the longer you wait the more it festers. Getting it out in the open will help you move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Did she cut off contact with him? Until she does, you have no marriage.

Expose the affair to his wife. Yesterday. Do it.


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## 8yearscheating

I agree with Eli-Zor. Your wife doesn't want to cause any more pain for his family. SHe feels bad enough. But his wife deserves to know. Don't contact him, contact her - by phone if possible.


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## 8yearscheating

She has cut off contact JB.


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## F-102

Great news, bro. I still think that the OM's W should be informed-your W was more than likely not his only "score".

Love your kitty reference.


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## Jellybeans

Yeah I :rofl:'ed at the kitty reference too


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