# Suggested my 19 year old son live with his mom full-time - Created a Mess



## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

I'll make it short and sweet, just need some advice:

Ex-wife and I were married for about 9 years, she had 2 kids from a previous and father was not in the picture so I raised the kids as my own and we had 1 child during the marriage. Four years ago we divorced and because I raised and see the 2 kids from the previous relationship as my own they come and stay with me and have their own rooms just like my bio child does. 

Fast forward to present day I am re-married with a child on the way. My oldest (non bio) child is 19 and I suggested he live with his mom full time so that he doesn't have to go back and forth. He is technically an adult so I thought I was being thoughtful in some way. He saw it as me kicking him out because the new baby is on the way and now his mom (my ex) is livid because she thinks the same thing and thinks my wife is behind it. Said she lost all respect for me and to let her know when the other (non bio) child will lose his space at my house. I have not told my wife because she is pregnant and I don't want to upset her. My wife was ok with him moving out but said it was strictly up to him. 

My ex wife and I have a decent co-parenting relationship and easy going custody schedule but because of this I feel it's going to cause serious tension, and possible arguments and she may get strict with the custody schedule and not allow me the same time I have with my kids. Wish I would have never brought it up.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think your best bet here is to be honest. You never imagined it would be taken this way. You were trying to treat him as an adult and it backfired. You're very sorry and of course he's welcome to continue to come and stay at your house as he always has because he will always be your son. Sometimes we make mistakes and in life. It's not the end of the world. Tell him what your thoughts were and why you said it and that it was never because of the reasons people are now speculating. He'll either believe you or he won't. I hope he does.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I think your best bet here is to be honest. You never imagined it would be taken this way. You were trying to treat him as an adult and it backfired. You're very sorry and of course he's welcome to continue to come and stay at your house as he always has because he will always be your son. Sometimes we make mistakes and in life. It's not the end of the world. Tell him what your thoughts were and why you said it and that it was never because of the reasons people are now speculating. He'll either believe you or he won't. I hope he does.


Thank you. I actually already sent him a text explaining everything and telling him he doesn't have to go. He seems to be ok with it and said it might be helpful to just live in one spot but regardless I told him he can still stay as before. 

The one that I am afraid of is his mom (my ex). She told me he's not coming back because that shouldn't have been brought up in the first place so it's apparent me and my wife don't want him there. She seemed to take it a lot harder and now I don't know how to repair the co-parenting relationship and am worried it will affect my life in other ways.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Tell her the very same thing. I'd suggest having the conversation in person. Start with "I ****ed up. I'm sorry, I never even thought of it like that and I should have thought he'd maybe take it that way" Not much else you can do. After that, I think it's a least said soonest mended kind of thing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

UnsureFather said:


> I'll make it short and sweet, just need some advice:
> 
> Ex-wife and I were married for about 9 years, she had 2 kids from a previous and father was not in the picture so I raised the kids as my own and we had 1 child during the marriage. Four years ago we divorced and because I raised and see the 2 kids from the previous relationship as my own they come and stay with me and have their own rooms just like my bio child does.
> 
> ...


No, ****, Sherlock?  *Of course* he thought you were throwing him out! What on earth were you thinking?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

I actually had a conversation with her yesterday and I said that very thing "I ****ed up" but try as I might she went on to blame my wife and said this wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for her. She also went on to talk bad about everyone one else related to my wife and it wasn't a good conversation. I kept saying I'd just have my son stay and forget this whole thing happened but she said the damage was done and he was just going to live full time with her.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Then don't talk to her about it again. Be sure to invite your son over frequently for dinners, events, etc. Make sure your wife is there and engages with your son the same as they always did. It will be awkward at first but you'll get through it. When he comes for visits and it's getting late invite him to stay for the night if he doesn't feel like going home. That way he'll know he really is welcome in your home anytime. If your ex goes away for a vacation or something invite him to come stay with you for the week so he won't have to be alone. He's 19 though so expect him to turn that down. LOL


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> No, ****, Sherlock?  *Of course* he thought you were throwing him out! What on earth were you thinking?


I was thinking that as a 19 year old I'd probably not be wanting to pack my stuff every week and go back and forth so I brought it up to him as an option not as an order. Was it stupid? Yes but I thought I was actually being thoughtful. It's sad to see them pack their stuff and live at a different house every week.

In hindsight I should have left it as is and let him come to me if he was getting tired of it. I can't go back in time so I'd like to try to fix it. Just for the record, he and I are fine, it's his mom (my ex) that is still livid.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> Then don't talk to her about it again. Be sure to invite your son over frequently for dinners, events, etc. Make sure your wife is there and engages with your son the same as they always did. It will be awkward at first but you'll get through it. When he comes for visits and it's getting late invite him to stay for the night if he doesn't feel like going home. That way he'll know he really is welcome in your home anytime. If your ex goes away for a vacation or something invite him to come stay with you for the week so he won't have to be alone. He's 19 though so expect him to turn that down. LOL


That may be my only option at the moment unless he has a change of heart and just stays but if he doesn't I am going to work overtime making him feel like he is welcome. I just feel like there will always be this "you kicked me out of the house" cloud over us now.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

UnsureFather said:


> That may be my only option at the moment unless he has a change of heart and just stays but if he doesn't I am going to work overtime making him feel like he is welcome. I just feel like there will always be this "you kicked me out of the house" cloud over us now.


I doubt it. You said he understands why you did it and that you didn't mean it in the way he took it. He's got his own life now. As long as you are sure to include him in your life frequently he'll know he's welcome and loved. 

How is his relationship with your wife?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I doubt it. You said he understands why you did it and that you didn't mean it in the way he took it. He's got his own life now. As long as you are sure to include him in your life frequently he'll know he's welcome and loved.
> 
> How is his relationship with your wife?


My wife and him have a fine relationship but he's 19 so it's not like they're super close. Like you said, he has his own life. Disciplining him and my other children is a different story for another day. That has caused issues between my wife and I because we have very different views on parenting.

There is a small part of me that resents my wife for not talking me out of it though, like a feeling that if she really did love my kids as her own she would have told me not to do it. She's pretty non-chalant about it and she doesn't care for my ex so I'm wondering if that's why she's ok with it - kind of like saying "ha you keep your kid full time now" so I'm not going to lie, I am a little resentful.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Well this is the results of Divorce, and it's not your fault. As far as your ex who gives a rip, if your 19 yr old can think for himself now let it be everyone has their grow sooner or later. 
Getting ready to move forward, congratulations on your new one! And make the best of it


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I'll make it short and sweet, just need some advice:
> 
> Ex-wife and I were married for about 9 years, she had 2 kids from a previous and father was not in the picture so I raised the kids as my own and we had 1 child during the marriage. Four years ago we divorced and because I raised and see the 2 kids from the previous relationship as my own they come and stay with me and have their own rooms just like my bio child does.
> 
> ...


You have to be honest, and frankly you don't sound like you are the type of guy that is straight forward with people. You sound like a person that is conflict avoidant and does not like to upset people. 

With a new baby, and what were you thinking by the way, on the way I can absolutely see how your oldest Step child took it this way. 

Which means you did not really sit him down and say, "blah, blah, blah, you can stay if you want that is fine. I just wanted to know that if it gets too much with a new baby or going back an forth is a hassle then i understand if you want to stay at your mom's. BUT IF IT DOES NOT BOTHER YOU THE FEEL FREE TO STAY."

So since you did not have the straight forward talk with everyone, you pissed of everybody. Which by the way is usually the way that it works when you are conflict avoidant. 

You are going to have to NOT BE CONFLICT AVIODANT if you are going to fix this....


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Well, I'd say you need to figure out how to reconcile your differences in parenting styles before the new baby comes or you'll be back here asking how to save your relationship. And it's a bit unfair to resent her for not knowing how your ex or your son would take your suggestion. You know them way better than she does and you didn't see this coming. Unless she has said "I knew that would happen" you really can't know she did anything wrong. And are you the type of guy who would even have taken her suggestion not to do it?? All things to think about.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

UnsureFather said:


> There is a small part of me that resents my wife for not talking me out of it though, like a feeling that if she really did love my kids as her own she would have told me not to do it. She's pretty non-chalant about it and she doesn't care for my ex so I'm wondering if that's why she's ok with it - kind of like saying "ha you keep your kid full time now" so I'm not going to lie, I am a little resentful.


It's not her job, to fix your past marriage, your kidding right,? Why wouldn't she want everything for her and your new child. I think your selfish and so is your X, for pushing the blame on her shame in you. Man up and put on your big boy boots.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'll tell you my experience with something similar.

For context, I was 17 when this took place and I had quit my job, spent all my scholarship money on booze and women, had failed out of university at the end of my first year. I would disappear for weekends and full weeks with no explanation, and when I was home, my mom would often find strange girls in my bed. I was having the time of my life, but I was also making a train wreck of my life and driving my parents mental.

For Christmas that year, I received luggage. My birthday falls a few weeks after Christmas, and for my 18th birthday my parents took me out, then my friends took me out, and I don't really remember much except waking up with a stripper's g-string in my pocket and my basement bedroom window wide open. I must have lost my keys or something, so I came in through the window, which wasn't that abnormal, but I did wake up to about 2 inches of snow covering everything in my room, including me.

So when I woke up, my (step) dad put his arm around me, walked me to the door, and pointed outside. He said he would always love me, but it was obviously time for me to go out into the big wide world and start figuring things out. He said if luggage wasn't a hint, he didn't know what was. And that I would never starve, and if I got into trouble he would always be there, but I should try to make it on my own.

So I moved out. In with a girl, of course. But I moved out. Started paying my own way and sorting my own life out. My dad converted my bedroom into his den the next weekend, so I knew it was a permanent arrangement. Was the best thing that ever happened to me, to be honest. I later thanked my dad for doing it with a very expensive bottle of scotch.

None of this has anything at all to do with your situation, but is setting the stage for what does have to do with you.

My mom, right up until she passed away, was adamant that nobody ever kicked me out and I was making the whole thing up. Even though she was right there for all of it.

What's true? Who knows. My dad and I agree, my mom never did. The point is the kid was made to feel unwelcome, and if you don't like that or didn't intend it, just make it clear that he's welcome and you didn't mean it that way.

But be honest about it, too. If you didn't want him there, say so. Sometimes giving a young man the boot is the best thing that can happen to him.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> You have to be honest, and frankly you don't sound like you are the type of guy that is straight forward with people. You sound like a person that is conflict avoidant and does not like to upset people.
> 
> With a new baby, and what were you thinking by the way, on the way I can absolutely see how your oldest Step child took it this way.
> 
> ...



You're right in a sense but when you have an ex and are co-parenting, it's like a mine field. You have to try to be "conflict avoidant" (as you put it) otherwise everything will be a conflict. But in this case I actually did sit down with him and talked and told him it was his choice, he could stay or he could live with his mom full time. That is why him and I are fine. The one that isn't fine is his mom and to be honest she had brought it up in a prior conversation months ago. She is the original one that suggested him moving with her full time to make room for the baby on the way but I didn't entertain that thought until I watched them pack their bags week in and week out and go back and forth and so I thought I'd bring it up again. 

At first his mom was ok with it but apparently now it's a big deal and I get it. I should have never even entertained the idea and let things take their course on their own but I didn't so now I am trying to fix things and don't know how.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> You're right in a sense but when you have an ex and are co-parenting, it's like a mine field. You have to try to be "conflict avoidant" (as you put it) otherwise everything will be a conflict. But in this case I actually did sit down with him and talked and told him it was his choice, he could stay or he could live with his mom full time. That is why him and I are fine. The one that isn't fine is his mom and to be honest she had brought it up in a prior conversation months ago. She is the original one that suggested him moving with her full time to make room for the baby on the way but I didn't entertain that thought until I watched them pack their bags week in and week out and go back and forth and so I thought I'd bring it up again.
> 
> At first his mom was ok with it but apparently now it's a big deal and I get it. I should have never even entertained the idea and let things take their course on their own but I didn't so now I am trying to fix things and don't know how.


I get you, but did you do that to start with is all I am asking. You talked to him after he got upset, but did you lay it all out from the start? I am just wondering. 

And listen, being conflict avoidant, it is a thing, i believe causes more problems that it helps with. So for example, it may make it rough for a while with the Ex, but she is your ex. Why do you give a ****. Your kid is not that young, the one you guys have together, he will know when his mom is being unreasonable, and if he does not now he will in the future. 

All I am saying is this. Your ex, or any of your kids don't really have to like everything you do. They really don't. 

So if they don't like a decision that you make, and you are not being a jerk, then too bad so sad, life is a *****... 

See where i am coming from? If you live in fear of upsetting people, then you will BE in fear your entire life, because you are going to make someone upset at some point.

You are a grown man, and you will not make everyone happy all the time. 

For example, the 19 YO, you know at some point he will have to move out on his own and get a job and take care of himself, when is that going to happen? 

For me, it was, if you are in school, you can live and eat here and you will be expected to carry your weight around the house, yard, trash. If you are not in school, then see you. If i feel like it, you can pay rent on a month to month basis, otherwise see you later.

Does any of that register???


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you legally responsible for these children in any way? 
Were you sharing custody because you were required to?

Does your former step-son have any plans to get his own place any time soon?

I get that you were married to his mother for 9 years; but, that really doesn't translate to a life-time commitment. I think it's rather cheeky of him and his mother to think that you owe them.

Unless your wife made the suggestion for the kid to move out, then you are out of line trying to blameshift your guilt to her. Not to mention, that you have no reason to feel guilt. Every parent (at some point) has to have the moving out conversation. It sounds like your wife has been quite tolerant of this unusual situation. Not many women would be.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I'll make it short and sweet, just need some advice:
> 
> Ex-wife and I were married for about 9 years, she had 2 kids from a previous and father was not in the picture so I raised the kids as my own and we had 1 child during the marriage. Four years ago we divorced and because I raised and see the 2 kids from the previous relationship as my own they come and stay with me and have their own rooms just like my bio child does.
> 
> ...


If this WAS NOT your intent then take your son out to lunch/dinner and have a long one on one talk with him and reassure him that isn't your intent and he definitely doesn't need to go and that he is welcome to stay and apologize for the misunderstanding. Reassure him you love him and he is always welcome in your life.

Your ex wife? Screw her, who gives crap what she thinks, do not even engage her in conversation about this.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@UnsureFather, 

I can make this relatively easy for you. Your non-bio kids are now in their late teens. Your relationship is WITH THEM DIRECTLY and not with your exW. She is an ex for a reason! So if she wants to flip out and create drama where there is none, don't join in. Deal directly with the teens. Call their phones directly. Arrange to meet or pick them up or have them over, between you and them. If all is good between YOU and the teen child, just don't worry about the ex, and if she keeps flipping out, tell her "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry you see it that way. My opinion differs." *The end. *

Now I get it--the two of you had a bio-kid together, and that younger bio-kid is maybe more middle-school aged and you have to co-parent and coordinate to some degree. But even there, it is not your job to get her to settle down or to like your current wife or anything. Those two women DO NOT need to like each other! You have a child with exW and thus you coordinate but you go ahead and do ALL THE LEGWORK to keep a relationship with middle-school bio-kid. Let her be mad at current wife and shoot blame... who cares? It's the rantings of a bitter ex, that's all. Dismiss it as the useless bunch of hot air that it is. You and your current wife just continue being involved, caring people who relate to the kids. Be the father you should be, be the man you should be, be the husband you should be, and don't worry about the ex and what she thinks or say.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

All good advice and yes I guess I am "conflict avoidant" or a "people pleaser" because I like peace in my life. I get that my ex is just that, my ex and I shouldn't care what she thinks and for the most part I don't, what she says goes in one ear and out the other but my fear is that she will be petty and get strict on the custody schedule that we have in place and take her anger out on me that way and or her harassing or causing scenes when the kids have sporting events or school functions.

For the most part I do communicate with my kids directly but there are times I do have to communicate with my ex wife. She's also married to someone new so we don't talk just to talk, we only talk when it concerns the kids and it's brief.

I hate drama, I hate tension, so I try to avoid it at all costs. I can't control if someone doesn't like me or my wife and it's fine but I don't want drama.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Forgot to mention my ex is the type that would go up to my wife and tell her something and that's what I don't want.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Are you sure that you weren't trying to clear up some space in the house? You say that each of these kids has his/her own room in your house. I presume that you and your wife share one as well. That's 4 bedrooms occupied. Do you have 5+ bedrooms in your house? If not, where do you plan to put the baby?

Is the 19YO in college, working or just laying around? Yes, it makes a difference.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> but my fear is that she will be petty ...


Brother, living in fear... aren't you tired of living in fear? Do you see that, that at the root of your problem, and I be problems with your marriage, with her for sure, and if you look around you will see it in other parts of your life. 

Some call it codependency (probably the right word or diagnosis), or conflict avoidance, people pleaser, and a hundred other things... THIS IS THE ROOT PROBLEM... 

If you did not have this problems you would not even be here posting in the first place, can you see that? 

Stop living like this, read "codependant no more" or whatever that book is called, and stop this behavior in your life. 

I did, I stopped this type of stuff in my life and OMG I cannot tell you how much better life can be when you figure this stuff out.

Good luck...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

UnsureFather said:


> Forgot to mention my ex is the type that would go up to my wife and tell her something and that's what I don't want.


People need to contemplate how a prospective or current partner is going to behave when they split up. I would certainly judge a man on the basis of how his ex is going to react to our relationship and whose needs he's going to put first.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NextTimeAround said:


> People need to contemplate how a prospective or current partner is going to behave when they split up. I would certainly judge a man on the basis of how his ex is going to react to our relationship and whose needs he's going to put first.


I wish we could do this. I just don't know how. 

When marriages end sometimes, one party or the other, just become different people. Or at least they let the people that they actually are... actually come out. 

Maybe that is it????


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

UnsureFather said:


> I hate drama, I hate tension, so I try to avoid it at all costs. I can't control if someone doesn't like me or my wife and it's fine but I don't want drama.


You hate drama and tension, but you have an ex wife and children by her.
That's about as dramatic as you can get.
First thing you need to do is get your s**t sorted.
You need to learn from your past mistakes, and strengthen yourself to prevent them from happening again.
At minimum, read up on and developing some coping strategies for dealing with the tumult you experience.
You, your kids, and your current wife all deserve that.
Better yet, get yourself some IC, and work on knocking it down all together.
Work on better communication with your kids and current wife.
So there was a misunderstanding with you and one of your kids. Crap happens. Life goes on.
Develop a veneer of indifference towards the ex. You are in charge of your destiny, not her.
She can only be as dramatic as you let her.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

UnsureFather said:


> I was thinking that as a 19 year old I'd probably not be wanting to pack my stuff every week and go back and forth so I brought it up to him as an option not as an order. Was it stupid? Yes but I thought I was actually being thoughtful. It's sad to see them pack their stuff and live at a different house every week.


As 19 year old - if he did not want to live between two houses, he would say so. You really screw this one up, it will take a while to close this wound for that kid.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Your current wife is not responsible for your decisions. What are you? A child? She doesn't have to stop you from doing whatever you want to do with your other children. She already doesn't share your views about how to raise a child and in my opinion, that's going to be problematic with your new baby.

Who cares if your ex goes and talks to your wife! I'm sure you can discuss that possibility with your wife so she's prepared. She can stand up for herself and tell her to F**** off! I'm sure I would if I were in your wife's shoes. 

Don't be so afraid of your ex's reactions! The kids are not that young. They can figure things out on their own. 

If I were you, I wouldn't get married again and I wouldn't have any more children. It seems their lives are full of drama and conflict. They don't deserve that.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

All good advice, I've read and considered everything. I can't go back and change anything, though I wish I could. Right now I'm feeling extremely guilty and basically made my bed now have to sleep in it. From what I am seeing, there are 2 sides to this issue 1) I did nothing wrong, he's 19 and as long as I make sure he feels loved it'll be ok; and 2) I screwed up horribly and should have let him come to me if he was tired of going back and forth and this will take to be fixed. 

I'm with argument no. 2. I feel horrible about the whole thing and wish I would have just kept my mouth closed. Again, I can't go back in time so now all I can do is mitigate the damage.

I need to stop being a people pleaser and do what I feel is right in my heart no matter who it pisses off, my ex or my wife. Hate to say it but when I was single after my D and before I married my current wife I did not have a care in the world. I did what I wanted, said what I wanted and slept peacefully pretty much every night. Now I feel like I am trying to please everyone all the time and honestly I'm tired of it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

I think your last post is a good one. And I think well meaning people can disagree with whether or not you should have said anything or not. 

I am not sure that it matters to some extent. I think the you could have said, "Son, are you OK with going back and forth between houses at your are. Does any of that bother you. If it does let's talk about it". 

And I think that it is valid to not worry about it and let him come to you....

What is do not think most people would disagree about is "worrying about" or "being in fear" of whatever your Ex wife thinks. 

My ex wife tried that with me one time, different issue, same tactics. When she did I simply said, "I do not give a **** what you think and what you want. You are not my responsibility or problem any more." 

For some reason, that seem to stop the attempted ******** immediately...

Take a look at the codependency/people pleasing. Get used to doing what you think is right and thinking less, in most cases, what other people think. 

I think you are on the right path...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UnsureFather said:


> All good advice, I've read and considered everything. I can't go back and change anything, though I wish I could. Right now I'm feeling extremely guilty and basically made my bed now have to sleep in it. From what I am seeing, there are 2 sides to this issue 1) I did nothing wrong, he's 19 and as long as I make sure he feels loved it'll be ok; and 2) I screwed up horribly and should have let him come to me if he was tired of going back and forth and this will take to be fixed.
> 
> I'm with argument no. 2. I feel horrible about the whole thing and wish I would have just kept my mouth closed. Again, I can't go back in time so now all I can do is mitigate the damage.
> 
> I need to stop being a people pleaser and do what I feel is right in my heart no matter who it pisses off, my ex or my wife. Hate to say it but when I was single after my D and before I married my current wife I did not have a care in the world. I did what I wanted, said what I wanted and slept peacefully pretty much every night. Now I feel like I am trying to please everyone all the time and honestly I'm tired of it.


He's a man now, so treat him like one.

"Look son, I messed up. I made you feel unwelcome when that wasn't my intention." Sounds like that's essentially what you did here - apologize and make amends with him, man to man.

There are three parts of an apology: "I'm sorry I..." + "I understand how I made you feel..." + "Here's how I'm not going to do that again..."

And then, you drop it and move on. Sounds like your son has, so stop beating yourself up about it. If you're a pleaser, this is hard, because you displeased him. But it's over.

If I were you, I would give a **** what my ex thought, because it was between two adults and had nothing to do with her.

Stop trying to please him or anyone else. Instead, do what you think is right, and then sleep well knowing you lived according to your values.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> I think your last post is a good one. And I think well meaning people can disagree with whether or not you should have said anything or not.
> 
> I am not sure that it matters to some extent. I think the you could have said, "Son, are you OK with going back and forth between houses at your are. Does any of that bother you. If it does let's talk about it".
> 
> ...


This may be the "people pleaser" in me but reason I even consider how my ex feels is that I don't want it to affect or disrupt the custody schedule that was in place. It was very laid back, no hour of when the transfer is made just the day and sometimes they'll stay another day with me if she is not doing anything. She's threatened in the past to put a hard time on it and there'd be issues if the time wasn't met. 

On top of that my kids play a lot of sports (not at the moment) but we see her at all of them. I don't want any dirty looks, arguments with my wife or just bad blood. I want to just be able to enjoy my kids events. 



Marduk said:


> He's a man now, so treat him like one.
> 
> "Look son, I messed up. I made you feel unwelcome when that wasn't my intention." Sounds like that's essentially what you did here - apologize and make amends with him, man to man.
> 
> ...


I thought I'd give him a day or 2 to let the dust settle and give him some space. I intent to talk to him again and what you suggest I say when I apologize is great advice. 

As for my ex, refer to my previous comments. Deep down I think she's hurt that I hurt him and possibly thinks I'm picking my wife and new baby over her son. That's just a thought but I don't know.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UnsureFather said:


> possibly thinks I'm picking my wife and new baby over her son. That's just a thought but I don't know.


I can get that, but it's not true.

What _is_ true, though, is that he's a 19 year old adult that _actually_ needs you less than your baby. Even if he was your bio kid, that's what I'd be saying - and thinking.

And... to be blunt... who cares what your ex thinks?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Sure, if you had not remarried, your life might have had less drama, but lots of new joy would be absent too. Your first wife is an ex for a reason as has been said. IMO you cannot undo this piece of 'leverage' you have given her, but you can manage it with wisdom and aplomb. Do not worry what MIGHT happen before it does.

Your pregnant wife took on a lot when she married you, but she apparently loved you enough to do so. Communication with her is now of paramount importance!! You have enough love for all your children and your new wife. Just make sure they know this. If you made no mistakes in life, you would not be human. Do not focus on mistakes. Focus on the positives in your life. There is much going on, share your concerns with someone you trust and who understands--family member, pastor, good friend. Glad you came to TAM too.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I find it troubling that your instinct is to blame your wife for this. I'll fully admit I could be projecting but you seem a lot more concerned with what your ex wife thinks then protecting your current wife. My ex did the same thing and i resented the hell out of him for it.

Why are you so invested in your ex wife's opinion? This suggests to me that you're not really ready to be fully invested in your current marriage.

This kid is 19. Deal with him directly and screw your ex. She doesn't speak for him and if he doesn't know that he'll have to learn.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The new wife has my sympathy. Her life was undoubtedly more peaceful before being saddled with a step-kid and husband's two former step-kids. And a husband who seems more concerned about his former family than his current one. The new wife is being used as a scapegoat by both her husband and his ex. What did she do to deserve this?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Marduk said:


> I can get that, but it's not true.
> 
> What _is_ true, though, is that he's a 19 year old adult that _actually_ needs you less than your baby. Even if he was your bio kid, that's what I'd be saying - and thinking.
> 
> And... to be blunt... who cares what your ex thinks?


That's true but at the same time I don't want any of my kids to think that the one on the way has priority over them in any way, shape or form because it's simply not true. I made the mistake now I am going to have to go into overdrive showing my son that he is loved and welcome at my house and is not being pushed to the side for the new born.



sunsetmist said:


> Sure, if you had not remarried, your life might have had less drama, but lots of new joy would be absent too. Your first wife is an ex for a reason as has been said. IMO you cannot undo this piece of 'leverage' you have given her, but you can manage it with wisdom and aplomb. Do not worry what MIGHT happen before it does.
> 
> Your pregnant wife took on a lot when she married you, but she apparently loved you enough to do so. Communication with her is now of paramount importance!! You have enough love for all your children and your new wife. Just make sure they know this. If you made no mistakes in life, you would not be human. Do not focus on mistakes. Focus on the positives in your life. There is much going on, share your concerns with someone you trust and who understands--family member, pastor, good friend. Glad you came to TAM too.


The wife and I have been communicating and she supports the idea of him living in one place rather than be going back and forth. Though she loves my kids she's of the mind that since he's not my bio kid, I've done more than enough for him and my ex should be thankful and she should have been the one to make him move over there. That is why I have a bit of resentment towards her. To me he is my son, I raised him and don't consider him step. 



lifeistooshort said:


> I find it troubling that your instinct is to blame your wife for this. I'll fully admit I could be projecting but you seem a lot more concerned with what your ex wife thinks then protecting your current wife. My ex did the same thing and i resented the hell out of him for it.
> 
> Why are you so invested in your ex wife's opinion? This suggests to me that you're not really ready to be fully invested in your current marriage.
> 
> This kid is 19. Deal with him directly and screw your ex. She doesn't speak for him and if he doesn't know that he'll have to learn.


See my reply above about why I blame my wife. There's a lot more to it because my wife knew what she was getting into when she married me but has tried to make certain changes that if I would have known she'd be trying to make, I wouldn't have married her. It's not that I'm invested in my ex's opinion but she's a real "mama bear" and very defensive about her kids so when they get upset she doesn't care who or what she has to mow down. And she can be angry for a very long time so dealing with her about my kids for the foreseable future is going to be tough.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> The new wife has my sympathy. Her life was undoubtedly more peaceful before being saddled with a step-kid and husband's two former step-kids. And a husband who seems more concerned about his former family than his current one. The new wife is being used as a scapegoat by both her husband and his ex. What did she do to deserve this?


She's not so innocent. She knew full well I had 3 kids and their mother was in their lives but like I mentioned above after we got married she has been trying to make changes that she shouldn't be. I figure she probably didn't like it before hand and thought after marriage she'd make the changes. Too much to get into but trust me, she has fault in this.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm thinking each and every participant knows what you are feeling. Beware of resentment--it robs you in many ways.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> See my reply above about why I blame my wife. There's a lot more to it because *my wife knew what she was getting into when she married me* but has tried to make certain changes that if I would have known she'd be trying to make, I wouldn't have married her.





UnsureFather said:


> *She's not so innocent. She knew full well I had 3 kids and their mother was in their lives* but like I mentioned above after we got married she has been trying to make changes that she shouldn't be. I figure she probably didn't like it before hand and thought after marriage she'd make the changes. Too much to get into but trust me, she has fault in this.


Whoa. Mate. You are out of line on that one! I'm a second wife and stepmum, and let me tell you right now, if your wife had TRULY known what life would be like, the reality is that SHE probably wouldn't have married YOU.

Knowing something and living it are two completely different things. She is your wife. She is supposed to be your number one. Your person. Not your ex.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

UnsureFather said:


> All good advice, I've read and considered everything. I can't go back and change anything, though I wish I could. Right now I'm feeling extremely guilty and basically made my bed now have to sleep in it. From what I am seeing, there are 2 sides to this issue 1) I did nothing wrong, he's 19 and as long as I make sure he feels loved it'll be ok; and 2) I screwed up horribly and should have let him come to me if he was tired of going back and forth and this will take to be fixed.
> 
> I'm with argument no. 2. I feel horrible about the whole thing and wish I would have just kept my mouth closed. Again, I can't go back in time so now all I can do is mitigate the damage.
> 
> I need to stop being a people pleaser and do what I feel is right in my heart no matter who it pisses off, my ex or my wife. Hate to say it but when I was single after my D and before I married my current wife I did not have a care in the world. I did what I wanted, said what I wanted and slept peacefully pretty much every night. Now I feel like I am trying to please everyone all the time and honestly I'm tired of it.


You can be different right now and change, forget #1 & #2. Accept this change and move forward.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

UnsureFather said:


> She's not so innocent. She knew full well I had 3 kids and their mother was in their lives but like I mentioned above after we got married she has been trying to make changes that she shouldn't be. I figure she probably didn't like it before hand and thought after marriage she'd make the changes. Too much to get into but trust me, she has fault in this.


No she thought you were a bigger man at the time. You should Divorce your current wife and remarry your X, then you would stop blaming the innocent party even though you think differently. You thinking is selfish and weak you had no right to screw up another person's life! But you did hope your proud of yourself. 

And the new baby will be spared a miserable life because it's the only one your willing to give it. Tell your wife better luck getting a man who stands up for himself next time.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

frusdil said:


> Whoa. Mate. You are out of line on that one! I'm a second wife and stepmum, and let me tell you right now, if your wife had TRULY known what life would be like, the reality is that SHE probably wouldn't have married YOU.
> 
> Knowing something and living it are two completely different things. She is your wife. She is supposed to be your number one. Your person. Not your ex.


Damn straight^^^^


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

I kind of think it's a bit weird at 19 your stepson is still on some sort of custody between the two houses. Doesn't he have a life of his own?

He should have space to stay at both houses. He should be free to join whatever household he chooses to depend on what's happening in his life. He should be looking to move out of both at some stage soon.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

UnsureFather said:


> My wife and him have a fine relationship but he's 19 so it's not like they're super close. Like you said, he has his own life. Disciplining him and my other children is a different story for another day. That has caused issues between my wife and I because we have very different views on parenting.
> 
> There is a small part of me that resents my wife for not talking me out of it though, like a feeling that if she really did love my kids as her own she would have told me not to do it. She's pretty non-chalant about it and she doesn't care for my ex so I'm wondering if that's why she's ok with it - kind of like saying "ha you keep your kid full time now" so I'm not going to lie, I am a little resentful.


So, this reveals there is some truth to what your ex is feeling about the situation.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> That's true but at the same time I don't want any of my kids to think that the one on the way has priority over them in any way, shape or form because it's simply not true. I made the mistake now I am going to have to go into overdrive showing my son that he is loved and welcome at my house and is not being pushed to the side for the new born.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And what exactly was she getting into? Did she fully understand that you actually expect her to have more responsibility for your 19 year old son then you? That's basically what you're saying when you remark that she should've talked you out of it.....you're not really responsible for your decisions. You're implying that she has more responsibility and should somehow prevent you from making bad decisions. Are you her husband or her son?

And you know what? Your wife isn't going to love your son like you do, and it's not fair to expect her to. Her relationship with him will be different....she doesn't have the history with him that you do. You said they got along fine.

A counselor once explained to me that its always on the bio parent to lead where the kids are concerned, and because you raised him that's you. Your wife really can't win here....if she gets involved and things don't go well it's her fault. If she doesn't get involved and things don't go well it's her fault.

You say you wouldn't have married her, but to another poster's point if she fully understood what you really expect of her maybe she wouldn't have married you.

And she's not required to like your ex....she may have good reason to feel that way. Your ex"s over the top drama queen reaction might be your first clue as to why.

Stop abdicating your responsibility and own your decisions. You are perfectly capable of sitting down with your wife and coming to a decision together, but once you do you have to own the fact that you agreed to it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> She's not so innocent. She knew full well I had 3 kids and their mother was in their lives but like I mentioned above after we got married she has been trying to make changes that she shouldn't be. I figure she probably didn't like it before hand and thought after marriage she'd make the changes. Too much to get into but trust me, she has fault in this.


I was wondering what happened with all the animosity from you and some of the posters...

Sorry bro, they are right. You are blaming your NEW WIFE who has nothing to do with any of this.

Like we have been saying, your codependency (which in you manifests as "People Pleasing"), now has you sounding like you are blaming your wife, which you are.

Dude, if you were not so conflict aviodant and so subservient/deferential to your ex wife, you would have told her to **** off years ago. I am surprised that you had the balls to divorce her, unless she cheated and you simply had not choice.

Listen, no one wants to upset you, or be mean or any of that. But you should know that when something upsets you on a board like this, usually it is because you don't want to hear some things that YOU REALLY NEED TO HEAR.

So all of this is fixable: With your step-son, just tell him, sorry all this upset you and you can stay as long as you need for now...

And tell your ex to **** OFF, STOP THINKING AND ACTING IN UNHEALTHY WAYS, FIX YOURSELF AND MOVE ON...


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Everyone that says my wife is not at fault, let me reveal a little something that I've been holding back (not sure why). About a month ago my wife started alluding to not having enough room with the new baby coming and then it turned into "why doesn't the 19 yr. old live with his mom full-time, he's not your bio son anyway, you've cared for him long enough, his mom (my ex) should be grateful - maybe he'd like not going back and forth from house to house." That was like a gut punch to me because to me his is like my bio son. I raised him since he was months old so for my wife to say that, it seemed very heartless and made me look at her very differently. BUT the not going from house to house part seemed reasonable to me...at the time.

A few weeks later it was brought up again and my wife says that if he doesn't move out with his mom soon, she will just move out on her own so she will have enough space and though she said it wasn't an ultimatum, that's exactly how I took it.

So I broached the subject with my ex, who was somewhat surprised, then talked to my son and here we are. 

I just want to know if some of the opinions above will be different now. Regardless of what I just explained, it is ALL still my fault for not standing up for what I want whether I should have stood up to my wife or my ex. I get that. But as I said, my wife is not innocent in all of this and it's made me look at her a bit different.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> Everyone that says my wife is not at fault, let me reveal a little something that I've been holding back (not sure why). About a month ago my wife started alluding to not having enough room with the new baby coming and then it turned into "why doesn't the 19 yr. old live with his mom full-time, he's not your bio son anyway, you've cared for him long enough, his mom (my ex) should be grateful - maybe he'd like not going back and forth from house to house." That was like a gut punch to me because to me his is like my bio son. I raised him since he was months old so for my wife to say that, it seemed very heartless and made me look at her very differently. BUT the not going from house to house part seemed reasonable to me...at the time.
> 
> A few weeks later it was brought up again and my wife says that if he doesn't move out with his mom soon, she will just move out on her own so she will have enough space and though she said it wasn't an ultimatum, that's exactly how I took it.
> 
> ...


So, yeah why not put it out from the start... 

YOUR BASIC PROBLEM IS THE SAME. You and your codependent/people pleasing ways are what caused this. 

This is my last post for you because you are not listening, I am starting to think you never will.

You know how you handle the above situation... Like this: 

"Well current wife, if you fell like you have to move out, then I guess I understand. When do you want me to have the movers her to pick you up? Do you want to move out before or after you have the baby? 

Oh, and where do you want the divorce papers sent. To your new place of have them dropped off here" 

That would have solved the problem no matter what she decided to do. 

Seriously, have you lived your whole life like this? For what 40 years at least. Bless your heart.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> So, yeah why not put it out from the start...
> 
> YOUR BASIC PROBLEM IS THE SAME. You and your codependent/people pleasing ways are what caused this.
> 
> ...


Well yes you're right and I hate to say it but it took all this to show me how much of a coward and people pleaser I've been. I have a feeling this won't be the last issue and trust me, I will be ready next time. I'm tired of living my life in fear.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

UnsureFather said:


> Everyone that says my wife is not at fault, let me reveal a little something that I've been holding back (not sure why). About a month ago my wife started alluding to not having enough room with the new baby coming and then it turned into "why doesn't the 19 yr. old live with his mom full-time, he's not your bio son anyway, you've cared for him long enough, his mom (my ex) should be grateful - maybe he'd like not going back and forth from house to house." That was like a gut punch to me because to me his is like my bio son. I raised him since he was months old so for my wife to say that, it seemed very heartless and made me look at her very differently. BUT the not going from house to house part seemed reasonable to me...at the time.
> 
> A few weeks later it was brought up again and my wife says that if he doesn't move out with his mom soon, she will just move out on her own so she will have enough space and though she said it wasn't an ultimatum, that's exactly how I took it.
> 
> ...


Holy ****!! How awful! I'm sure you do look at her differently. Now you know her true colors (and yes, your ex was correct in ascertaining the situation, wasn't she!).


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Holy ****!! How awful! I'm sure you do look at her differently. Now you know her true colors (and yes, your ex was correct in ascertaining the situation, wasn't she!).


Exactly, so now because I was gutless, I'm stuck doing damage control. Don't get it wrong, my ex is not innocent either but in this case I see where she's coming from so I'm in a real mess. How do I back my wife but at the same time see my ex's side? It's not easy. This has been a very hard time for me and I don't know how or when it's going to become peaceful again.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> Exactly, so now because I was gutless, I'm stuck doing damage control. Don't get it wrong, my ex is not innocent either but in this case I see where she's coming from so I'm in a real mess. How do I back my wife but at the same time see my ex's side? It's not easy. This has been a very hard time for me and I don't know how or when it's going to become peaceful again.


Take a breath, listen you are starting to understand. So then really dig in and understand... 

Step 1) **** your ex wife, **** her today, **** her tomorrow, **** her... Get it. You owe her nothing. 

Step 2) Tell your wife to kiss your ass... 

Step 3) Tell Step-son your are sorry, it all went wrong, hope he can forgive - If you even have to do this. 

See your thinking in your post is still people pleasing and codependent. 

You are a grown ass man, start acting like one. Like this, if ex wife give your **** then say the following... 

"He Ex wife, **** off. I made a mistake get over it or don't, I don't really care" 

Your wife has a problem with your and this situation, same thing. 

You made some mistakes, OK, so everyone needs to get over is, including you. 

It is past time for you to forgive yourself for not being perfect, because you never will be!!!!

GET IT????


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So I'm guessing you didn't sit down with your wife and have an adult discussion where you address her concerns.

At least if you try that you'll know you did what you could, but instead you took the path of least resistance and are now pissed off about it 

Talk. To. Your. Wife.

At least acknowledge and address her concerns.

Forgive me if you've already addressed this but can you describe the living situation? Where is the baby going to stay?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> Take a breath, listen you are starting to understand. So then really dig in and understand...
> 
> Step 1) *** your ex wife, *** her today, *** her tomorrow, *** her... Get it. You owe her nothing.
> 
> ...





BluesPower said:


> Take a breath, listen you are starting to understand. So then really dig in and understand...
> 
> Step 1) *** your ex wife, *** her today, *** her tomorrow, *** her... Get it. You owe her nothing.
> 
> ...


I get it, I finally understand. I spoke with my son, me and him are ok and that is my only priority right now. The ex wife, we had our discussion/argument I said my piece and that's all I can do. With my wife I've told her that I should have never done this and I will never do anything like this again no matter what. 



lifeistooshort said:


> So I'm guessing you didn't sit down with your wife and have an adult discussion where you address her concerns.
> 
> At least if you try that you'll know you did what you could, but instead you took the path of least resistance and are now pissed off about it
> 
> ...


Address her concerns about what? Not wanting my son there anymore all of a sudden? That was never part of the deal when I married her. She knew I had 3 kids and that in our culture we don't kick them out as of a certain age no matter what.

The baby is small, it will be fine staying with us in our room for some time, it shouldn't affect any other kids in the house and we did have that discussion but she kept on insisting that we won't have room. I kick myself in the ass for trying to address her concerns and should have just let her leave. 

I will be surprised if our marriage lasts a long time. I really do see her differently now.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> Ex-wife and I were married for about 9 years, she had 2 kids from a previous





UnsureFather said:


> My oldest (non bio) child is 19


"I raised him since he was months old..."

This is getting confusing. She had two kids when you two got together and the oldest was only months old. So where did the 2nd non-bio come from?

You were with your ex for 15 years rather than 9 years?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> "I raised him since he was months old..."
> 
> This is getting confusing. She had two kids when you two got together and the oldest was only months old. So where did the 2nd non-bio come from?
> 
> You were with your ex for 15 years rather than 9 years?


Sorry, my 2nd non bio was months old (just about a year). The one that is the subject of this issue was a couple years old. We didn't marry right away. All that is beside the point. The one that is relevant to this conversation is 19 yrs. old now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> I get it, I finally understand. I spoke with my son, me and him are ok and that is my only priority right now. The ex wife, we had our discussion/argument I said my piece and that's all I can do. With my wife I've told her that I should have never done this and I will never do anything like this again no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why the attitude?

Tall to her about the space. So the baby has to stay in your room because there's no other place. Ok, but at least acknowledge that it's going to be cramped and you understand that. 

How long is reasonable in your culture for an adult child to stay home? Where will the baby stay once he or she gets too big to stay in your room? How long do you think is reasonable for the baby to stay in your room? If your 19 year old is still there when the baby is too big what will you do?



FWIW I have a 19 year old son and I wouldn't kick him out either as he's going to school, so I get it.

But if you really see your wife as an adversary who can **** off then you're not a good partner for her either. If she's your adversary then by default you're her adversary, so cut her loose now. She needs someone who has her back just like you do.

I'd just hate to see another guy raising your kid because you couldn't try to discuss things like an adult. It may not work but at least you'd know you tried.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why the attitude?
> 
> Tall to her about the space. So the baby has to stay in your room because there's no other place. Ok, but at least acknowledge that it's going to be cramped and you understand that.
> 
> ...


Do you recall that OPs current wife gave him an ultimatum, either get the 19 year old out or she was going to leave him?? OPs wife is the one acting adversarial.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, with your attitude the marriage probably won't last. If less drama and more peace in your life is your goal, you're going about it in the wrong way. Imagine having to negotiate custody arrangements and child support with two ex-wives. 

It isn't uncommon for people to feel more strongly about a bio child than a non-bio child. Your wife probably didn't know how strongly you felt about the 19 yr old. In any event, it wouldn't kill your kids to double up in a bedroom. My sis and I shared a bedroom for years.

You have a resentment for your wife that is palpable through the screen and appears to be unwarranted. It seems you're displacing your disappointment in yourself onto your wife. You realize you made a boo-boo with the kid so forgive yourself and let it go.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Do you recall that OPs current wife gave him an ultimatum, either get the 19 year old out or she was going to leave him?? OPs wife is the one acting adversarial.


Disagree. He specifically said she commented that it wasn't an ultimatum....she laid out what she could live with. Marriage is about meeting the needs of both partners so she is not required to live with the conditions he offers. 

Either one can decide this situation isn't working for them. As I told him I'd hate to see another guy raising his kid because he's afraid of either upsetting his ex or he's afraid of confrontation. But if his attitude is truly **** her then it shouldn't be an issue if she moves out.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

UnsureFather said:


> Well yes you're right and I hate to say it but it took all this to show me how much of a coward and people pleaser I've been. I have a feeling this won't be the last issue and trust me, I will be ready next time. I'm tired of living my life in fear.


while I agree in regards to your co-dependency issues, you really are not to blame. You have chosen a similar person to marry because you tend to repeat patterns until you work through issues, and you will continue to be this way with a partner until you get help for your codependency and people-pleasing issues. 

Get some therapy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Disagree. He specifically said she commented that it wasn't an ultimatum....she laid out what she could live with. Marriage is about meeting the needs of both partners so she is not required to live with the conditions he offers.
> 
> Either one can decide this situation isn't working for them. As I told him I'd hate to see another guy raising his kid because he's afraid of either upsetting his ex or he's afraid of confrontation. But if his attitude is truly **** her then it shouldn't be an issue if she moves out.


I guess I'm not understanding how telling your spouse that his 19 year old either doen't live in the house anymore or she'll move out isn't an ultimatum.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I guess I'm not understanding how telling your spouse that his 19 year old either doen't live in the house anymore or she'll move out isn't an ultimatum.


Is it your position that she's required to live with the conditions he offers?

You can think its ****ty of her but it is her right to do that. People here are told to lay out boundaries all the time, so why can't she?

It's unfortunate that a baby will be involved but peoples kids are a big reason subsequent marriages fail.

And frankly his attitude is very nasty. I know he's hurting but he's handling this poorly.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Is it your position that she's required to live with the conditions he offers?
> 
> You can think its ****ty of her but it is her right to do that. People here are told to lay out boundaries all the time, so why can't she?
> 
> ...


It's my position that you try to come up with alternatives to an issue of this sort together, rather than -- do it my way or I'm leaving you. 

The "conditions he offers"? This stepson has been coming over with his sibling for a long time, living part time with OP and part time with his other parent.

An issue arose because OPs wife decided she wants to free up space in the house due to a new child, so she told him stepson doesn't stay here anymore or _I'm moving out_. Harsh. There surely are better ways to problem solve with your spouse. I bet if this were OPs wife's teen, she'd find a way to to solve the space issue. Heck, I can think of two ways off the top of my head. This isn't the only growing family to have to shuffle around who sleeps where and how can we all fit in the house? issues. Goodness. 

It isn't even that the OPs stepson has done anything wrong or causes problems.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> About a month ago my wife started alluding to not having enough room with the new baby coming and then it turned into "why doesn't the 19 yr. old live with his mom full-time, he's not your bio son anyway, you've cared for him long enough, his mom (my ex) should be grateful - maybe he'd like not going back and forth from house to house."
> 
> A few weeks later it was brought up again and my wife says that if he doesn't move out with his mom soon, she will just move out on her own so she will have enough space and though she said it wasn't an ultimatum, that's exactly how I took it.
> 
> So I broached the subject with my ex, who was somewhat surprised, then talked to my son and here we are.


It's perfectly reasonable for your wife to raise the subject of space in the home, with a new baby on the way. Why didn't you suggest something different if it distressed you so much? Why not tell the kids they'll have to share a room when the baby is old enough. Likely by then the 19 yo will have moved out anyway.

Maybe your wife didn't word it the best way, and maybe she just reached the end of her rope - I find it difficult to believe that she's never raised the space issue previously, women are all over that stuff usually. 



UnsureFather said:


> The baby is small, it will be fine staying with us in our room for some time, it shouldn't affect any other kids in the house and we did have that discussion but she kept on insisting that we won't have room. I kick myself in the ass for trying to address her concerns and should have just let her leave.
> 
> I will be surprised if our marriage lasts a long time. I really do see her differently now.


Wow. Just wow.



lifeistooshort said:


> But if you really see your wife as an adversary who can **** off then you're not a good partner for her either. If she's your adversary then by default you're her adversary, so cut her loose now. She needs someone who has her back just like you do.


Damn straight.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Livvie said:


> It's my position that you try to come up with alternatives to an issue of this sort together, rather than -- do it my way or I'm leaving you.
> 
> The "conditions he offers"? This stepson has been coming over with his sibling for a long time, living part time with OP and part time with his other parent.
> 
> ...


Nothing stopped him from approaching her to discuss solutions that didn't involve kicking the son out. Things change and a new baby certainly counts as a big change.

He's filled the role of bio parent so the onus is on him, but he was too busy trying to avoid conflict and then placating his ex.

Now his bad decisions are somehow her fault.

If I had to deal with his attitude I'd leave. In fact, I did deal with an ex like this....far more worried about placating his ex and snotty daughter (granted in this case the son isn't snotty) then working with me....his wife....for solutions. The goal was always for him to avoid conflict and discomfort, and I'm sure he'd tell you he saw me differently too.

Who cares.....I left him and am much happier. LW's wife might be happier without him too.

For the record, LW's wife might be perfectly willing to work with him if they had an adult discussion. In my experience conflict avoidant people think in very binary terms....its either no conflict or the sky is falling because every little bit of conflict is blown way out of proportion. With my ex, when I wanted him to have decent boundaries, that meant he had to hate everyone.....the only two options were a poor boundary free for all or hating everyone because everything in between involved uncomfortable adulting. 

That might be the case here. He doesn't like conflict so the only two options in his mind are his son moves out or his wife is a ***** who can **** off. Offering solutions involves discomfort.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UnsureFather said:


> I was thinking that as a 19 year old I'd probably not be wanting to pack my stuff every week and go back and forth so I brought it up to him as an option not as an order. Was it stupid?


I personally don't think it was stupid at all.

What 19 year old is STILL going back and forth for "visitation?" My son stopped doing that at 16 and from then on, when he wanted to stay with his dad, he did. When he wanted to come home, he did. 

Why is he bouncing from home to home at this age? Virus and staying home aside, shouldn't he be in college or otherwise engaged in something more productive then running back and forth between your homes?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> Everyone that says my wife is not at fault, let me reveal a little something that I've been holding back (not sure why). About a month ago my wife started alluding to not having enough room with the new baby coming and then it turned into "why doesn't the 19 yr. old live with his mom full-time, he's not your bio son anyway, you've cared for him long enough, his mom (my ex) should be grateful - maybe he'd like not going back and forth from house to house." That was like a gut punch to me because to me his is like my bio son. I raised him since he was months old so for my wife to say that, it seemed very heartless and made me look at her very differently. BUT the not going from house to house part seemed reasonable to me...at the time.
> 
> A few weeks later it was brought up again and my wife says that if he doesn't move out with his mom soon, she will just move out on her own so she will have enough space and though she said it wasn't an ultimatum, that's exactly how I took it.
> 
> ...


Ok
Let's cut to the chase.
This is a FULL GROWN MAN!!!!
A few decades back men were supposed to leave the nest and start their OWN LIVES and start their OWN FAMILIES.
This live at home until your 26 crap makes me sick.
You married this woman....honor her as your life partner and quit throwing her under the bus because she is making it difficult for some MAN to live with you until he is 30 and she isn't friends with your freaking ex.
I wouldn't be friends with an ex either. You are divorced why is she still around *****ing at you over where a 19 year old MAN lives....one that can vote, serve in the military, rent an apartment, have a job, have his own family.....you act like he is freaking 12 years old.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I feel sorry for your wife.

I think the children from other marriages conversation has to happen before you get married. 

You should have been clear about boundaries and expectations before marriage.

A baby needs all the attention. A 19 year old man doesn't need constant attention. 

I understand your wife's reaction towards the 19 year old. She's having her baby, she's going to protect that baby like a grizzly momma bear! Most women are going to react the same way, specially if it's their first child.

My fil has been married numerous times. My FIL's second ex-wife treats my husband like her own son but that was the dynamics between them. My husband's sibling doesn't talk to any of the ex wives. That's the way she wants it, and that's ok. They don't have to talk.

Your son and your wife might have their own dynamics and that's ok. She's not supposed to baby a grown up man like her own child. You should have been clear about how close you are to your son before getting married.

Help your son becoming independent, economically and emotionally. Specially if the child is coming and going between houses. Teach him to speak his mind and place boundaries so he doesn't make the mistakes you are making now.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Given the ages of the kids, you could have a family meeting wherein you explain the space problem and ask for their input as to how to solve the problem. The kids might work it out amongst themselves. If the baby turns out to be an incessant crier, you might have two sons beating feet to their mama's.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

As I mentioned before, there are two ways of thinking here. 1) That what I did to my son is not so bad because he's 19 and he's technically an adult now. He's an awesome kid. He goes to college (online for the moment) has a job and is very responsible, helps around the house. No issues at all with him; and 2) that what I did to my son was horrible and should have let my wife leave if that was her "non-ultimatum."

Though my son and I are good, I have been feeling this tremendous amount of guilt. I can't explain it. It has nothing to do with my ex or wife, it's within me. I don't like it but feel I deserve it. 

I feel I should have let him come to me if he wasn't liking going back and forth and just let him move out on his own, which I'm sure he was going to do pretty soon. I should have let my wife leave if that was her wish. My son did nothing to her. I could understand if he was rude, lazy, etc. but he wasn't. She had no reason to want him gone. In our culture, we make due so I'm sure we would have been ok with space even after the baby was born.

My wife is my wife but that was and is my kids' home. They didn't ask for me to get married and then be displaced. That is unfair to them and to me to come in and all of a sudden say, I think he needs to move to his mom fulltime and if that doesn't happen I will likely leave. I do have resentment towards my wife and will for some time. 

People pleasing aside, you get what you give and I've always treated people with respect but from now on I'm doing what I feel is right even if I that means another D.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Let me add this tidbit concerning my wife. She has trouble dealing with the fact that I have to co-parent my kids with my ex. She doesn't like it but it's not something I can change. My ex and I don't speak often and when we do it's only brief and about the kids. However, my wife doesn't like it. My wife is very insecure and is of the mind that when you have an ex you shouldn't speak to them anymore and that goes for speaking about anyone affiliated with the ex. 

My wife has issues with the my kids talking about their mom and their mom's family when they're at my house. I've told her that it's their family and it doesn't stop being their family at my house. I'm not stifling them or prohibiting them from talking about anyone. They don't do it in a disrespectful manner so it should be a non-issue.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Ok, so you continue to learn and ask some of the right questions, good for you. 

Both points that you make are valid in a general family context. 

There is nothing wrong with asking a 19 YO to think about locating permanently somewhere. It might even be right to tell him that you don't have permanent room for him if that was the truth. 

The problem in this case is that your wife was being a little bit of a jerk, by brow beating you to say something. THAT IS WRONG. If you guys had plenty of room then you were weak for talking to him about it. You should have told your wife to FO and not talked to her about it. 

That was what was wrong with the first point... Which rolls into point 2 - you did let your wife brow beat you into talking to him. So actually both are true in your case. 

The guilt or whatever you are feeling is natural for a codependent. For some reason, people like us, feel bad when we cannot make everyone happy. We feel like if we don't keep everyone happy the we have failed or something. 

Think about how crazy it is to feel that way? BTDT...

So here is the nest step, letting people be unhappy if they want to be and learning not to feel guilty. 

Here is an example with one of my sons... He got a new car and we were all on the same insurance. So he needed to get a form and fill it out for the agent.

He called me and wanted me to do it. A few year before I would have done it, but he was 19 or 20 so he needed to learn how to do it and I did not want to deal with it. 

So on the phone I told him to call the agent, make arrangements to get the paper work and take care of it. When I said that, there was a long pause at the other end as he processed that I was not going to do it for him. 

He did be he did not like it at first. Same stuff happened with all my kids. Daddy was not full service anymore because he had a life of his own. 

So you will get push back from everyone about not being a doormat... 

Read these books... "Codependent no more" and "No more mr nice guy" they will help...


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> People pleasing aside, you get what you give and I've always treated people with respect but from now on I'm doing what I feel is right even if I that means another D.


You have learned from this experience. Your gut keeps reminding you that your action was not who you want to be. Son knows who you really are. I'm afraid alarms are going off in your head alerting you to likely turmoil to come--for years.

You love this young man and do not want him to feel displaced. IMO: marriage counseling, now, in the beginning would likely be helpful in giving you and new wife tools to navigate the days, months, years ahead with a blended family. A professional outside opinion could balance hurt feelings and enhance joint needs.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Given the ages of the kids, you could have a family meeting wherein you explain the space problem and ask for their input as to how to solve the problem. The kids might work it out amongst themselves. If the baby turns out to be an incessant crier, you might have two sons beating feet to their mama's.


This is what a leader would do. Your wife has a legitimate concern and in your mind your only two options are to tell her to **** off or kick your son out?

Seriously?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is what a leader would do. Your wife has a legitimate concern and in your mind your only two options are to tell her to **** off or kick your son out?
> 
> Seriously?


Yes, those in my mind are the two options. He said she was kind of a B about it, so you bet.

Now you could talk to her about it if she would have a calm conversation but yeah...

Let's say that my youngest was still living with me, and my Fiancé said, I want him to go somewhere else, I don't want any one else here.

I would tell her to FO and help her pack. She, if this was a read situation, knew what was going on when she got with me. My kids, even though they are adults now, are very important to me. Just like hers are for her. I would never ask that if it was a reasonable situation. And I would not put up with that kind of an attitude in a relationship.

I'll say this, his wife should be pissed off that his Ex wife has such a hold on him, that is just silly. That is what she should be pissed about...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> Yes, those in my mind are the two options. He said she was kind of a B about it, so you bet.
> 
> Now you could talk to her about it if she would have a calm conversation but yeah...
> 
> ...


 But I think what's being missed here is that he's very conflict avoidant, and such people tend to operate in extremes.

So when he says she's a *****, that may or may not be true. A conflict avoider will interpret anything that makes them uncomfortable as the worst thing ever.

That's why I feel like much would be gained by having a meeting and negotiating solutions. If after that her attitude is 19 year old leaves or I do then ok, that gives you a clearer picture of where she stands.

I just know that my ex would say a lot of these things about me, but I was always willing to negotiate if he ever decided to adult up and discuss things, which he never did. He'd secretly choose the path of least resistance for himself and then resent me for it. Any boundaries at all on my end were interpreted as me being a huge *****, because his end goal was always to avoid being uncomfortable....not negotiating solutions with his wife.

And my ex was far more concerned with placating his ex then worrying about me.

Granted I could be projecting....I'm just trying to share a perspective from the other side.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> But I think what's being missed here is that he's very conflict avoidant, and such people tend to operate in extremes.
> 
> So when he says she's a ***, that may or may not be true. A conflict avoider will interpret anything that makes them uncomfortable as the worst thing ever.
> 
> ...


Yes he is Conflict avoidant, and he is codependent among other things. He is starting to realize this but it will take time and work on his part. 

As to the extremes... From what he describes, the way the his wife went about it was uncool. I could be wrong and none of us were there, but it sounds that way to me... 

From what I have learned, when you realize that you have allowed people to treat you this way, you kind of have to be extreme to get yourself in balance. 

The point is that, you as a CA person have to learn that it is ok to have boundaries and stand your ground.

If is was with a woman that tried to get me to do something like this, in this context, I would probably break up with her. If she could quickly realize that she was out of line and came back apologizing, then maybe we could talk about it. But I am a little older that OP, and I put up with way less BS than I used to.

After he gets himself stable and balanced, he might lighten up a little bit. But I am not so sure this is the right time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Blended families can be tough. Some people can love their spouse‘s children as their own but a lot can’t — especially once they have their own child(ren) to consider. 

It’s possible your wife was mostly okay with the situation until she got pregnant. Reconciling all of that will take time and effort and even then it may always be difficult. Hard to say at this point. 

Just do the best you can to make it work and hopefully she’ll do the same.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> Yes he is Conflict avoidant, and he is codependent among other things. He is starting to realize this but it will take time and work on his part.
> 
> As to the extremes... From what he describes, the way the his wife went about it was uncool. I could be wrong and none of us were there, but it sounds that way to me...
> 
> ...


Yeah, that may be true about his wife not handling this well. Dealing with a conflict avoider is tough and I know in my case it elicited behaviors that were probably not great either.....when you can't deal with things like an adult the dynamic becomes toxic. She may not know how else to deal with him.

At this point, in the same way you say you'd break up with someone who behaved like his wife, I'd break up with a guy who couldn't handle being uncomfortable enough to talk to me and then resented me for his decisions....particularly one who was that worried about his drama queen ex.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> At this point, in the same way you say you'd break up with someone who behaved like his wife, I'd break up with a guy who couldn't handle being uncomfortable enough to talk to me and then resented me for his decisions....particularly one who was that worried about his drama queen ex.


But the question is... Is it conflict avoidance, codependence or what?

I think for me, I just thought I had to make everyone happy, or keep everyone safe or whatever.

I cannot believe I used to be that way. Some of it was a control thing some of it was codependence.

The one thing for me is that I was not conflict avoidant. I would get in there and duke it out.

Today, I just let people be themselves. If you are not affecting me then do your thing. If you are affecting me, then we may have a problem.

I think if OP reads some and learns about boundaries and other things he will be fine. Better to figure it out now rather than later.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Let me be crystal clear. This is a done deal, he is moving and that's not going to change (his decision after this fiasco). Should we have had a family meeting about it - yes BUT it didn't happen AND my wife has been hesitant to even be part of this situation. She originally brought it up and said he should live with him mom fulltime and said I should bring it up. I told her no and we even got into a little argument about it. She then said that if he didn't move out soon she would but that it wasn't an ultimatum. Right there and then I should have told her to go ahead and leave.

Lifeistooshort - it sounds like you are projecting some of your past on my situation. The only reason I would like to keep things civil with my ex is for the kids and our custody schedule. She has opted out of child support thus far and I don't give her a penny and is very open about letting me keep the kids longer than our agreement often times. That can all change if I we're not on good terms. And when I say "good terms" I don't mean BFFS, I mean see eye to eye about what's best for the kids. 

My ex has a hunch the person behind this is my wife but I've tried to take the brunt of the blame even though it damn well is my wife's fault for the ultimatum. So if this leads to a stricter custody schedule, I will be mad and be resentful of my wife. Do I love my wife - yes but the woman I thought I was marrying would have never gave me an ultimatum like that.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

And so now when is the time to have a discussion. Not about the past but the future. You two really should seek counseling. 

After she said not an ultimatum Did you ask how it wasn't? Did you further explore how your son could stay? Was there actual discussion about space and making due?

You are going to have all kinds of blended issues coming as a new baby arrives. Setting expectations and having calm discussions now is way better than heat of the moment later. It is apparent that you have already built resentment and I'm sure she has as well. This is a marriage killer which you don't seem to upset about. How much importance are you placing on your new child? New family? What will the other children call the new child? What boundaries will be set? What will Christmas look like? How much space does your house have?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> Let me be crystal clear. This is a done deal, he is moving and that's not going to change (his decision after this fiasco). Should we have had a family meeting about it - yes BUT it didn't happen AND my wife has been hesitant to even be part of this situation. She originally brought it up and said he should live with him mom fulltime and said I should bring it up. I told her no and we even got into a little argument about it. She then said that if he didn't move out soon she would but that it wasn't an ultimatum. Right there and then I should have told her to go ahead and leave.
> 
> Lifeistooshort - it sounds like you are projecting some of your past on my situation. The only reason I would like to keep things civil with my ex is for the kids and our custody schedule. She has opted out of child support thus far and I don't give her a penny and is very open about letting me keep the kids longer than our agreement often times. That can all change if I we're not on good terms. And when I say "good terms" I don't mean BFFS, I mean see eye to eye about what's best for the kids.
> 
> My ex has a hunch the person behind this is my wife but I've tried to take the brunt of the blame even though it damn well is my wife's fault for the ultimatum. So if this leads to a stricter custody schedule, I will be mad and be resentful of my wife. Do I love my wife - yes but the woman I thought I was marrying would have never gave me an ultimatum like that.


How is child support even a topic regarding a 19 year old fully grown adult?
Child support is for children that are not of legal age. 
Did your other children not also live with you?
Maybe I missed something.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

hinterdir said:


> How is child support even a topic regarding a 19 year old fully grown adult?
> Child support is for children that are not of legal age.
> Did your other children not also live with you?
> Maybe I missed something.


I'm referring to child support for my actual bio child who is several years from 18. I've been D'd from his mom for about 4 years and I've never had to pay child support. She can easily change that at any time if I want to tell her to F*** Off like so many are suggesting I do.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

There is at least one another child, too. Younger.

Also... some states have child support in place through the college years. I know NY State, for example, is one of them.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I'm referring to child support for my actual bio child who is several years from 18. I've been D'd from his mom for about 4 years and I've never had to pay child support. She can easily change that at any time if I want to tell her to F*** Off like so many are suggesting I do.


So this child lives with her then?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> Let me be crystal clear. This is a done deal, he is moving and that's not going to change (his decision after this fiasco). Should we have had a family meeting about it - yes BUT it didn't happen AND my wife has been hesitant to even be part of this situation. She originally brought it up and said he should live with him mom fulltime and said I should bring it up. I told her no and we even got into a little argument about it. She then said that if he didn't move out soon she would but that it wasn't an ultimatum. Right there and then I should have told her to go ahead and leave.
> 
> My ex has a hunch the person behind this is my wife but I've tried to take the brunt of the blame *even though it damn well is my wife's fault* for the ultimatum. So if this leads to a stricter custody schedule, I will be mad and be resentful of my wife. Do I love my wife - yes but the woman I thought I was marrying would have never gave me an ultimatum like that.


This is not your wife's fault. This is YOUR fault. Stop blaming your wife because your ex still has you by the short and curly's.



UnsureFather said:


> I'm referring to child support for my actual bio child who is several years from 18. I've been D'd from his mom for about 4 years and I've never had to pay child support. She can easily change that at any time if I want to tell her to F*** Off like so many are suggesting I do.


You clearly loathe your wife, maybe she should leave, and be with someone who will have her back and not be held to ransom by an ex so he doesn't have to pay child support.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

frusdil said:


> This is not your wife's fault. This is YOUR fault. Stop blaming your wife because your ex still has you by the short and curly's.
> 
> 
> 
> You clearly loathe your wife, maybe she should leave, and be with someone who will have her back and not be held to ransom by an ex so he doesn't have to pay child support.


He can also pay child support to his current wife for the next 18 years while another guy raises his baby, while he's worrying about a grown man, an over the top ex wife, and a possible 4 more years of cs.

I would hope every effort has been made to avoid that. I've said my piece so now I wish OP the best.

If I was his wife I'd leave him....I hope they can work something out.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

UnsureFather said:


> I'm referring to child support for my actual bio child who is several years from 18. I've been D'd from his mom for about 4 years and I've never had to pay child support. She can easily change that at any time if I want to tell her to F*** Off like so many are suggesting I do.


You don't pay child support?!! You take a passive role so you don't upset her and have to pay? Pay your child support like you are supposed to. This will go a long way in stopping you from people-pleasing. Child support is FOR your child.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I'm referring to child support for my actual bio child who is several years from 18. I've been D'd from his mom for about 4 years and I've never had to pay child support. She can easily change that at any time if I want to tell her to F*** Off like so many are suggesting I do.


So does she have the child more than you do? Do you guys not split custody? 

If she has him more then she may be able to ask for CS but only if she has him much more, and if you don't really pay any of his bills. 

The point is, is she does have him more, and asks for reasonable child support, you would let her hold you hostage over that?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

I've gotten some really great advice from this post but a lot of the discussion really deviates from the issue at hand. I brought up child support but it honestly is not an issue at the moment with the ex and won't be if my wife and I did D. I pay more than enough for my kids and always will. I found out from my previous D that being single is not so bad. Even though my ex did remarry I am still raising my kids. I get along fine with her husband. The wife and I already had a discussion about what it'd be like if we D'd. Life is life and things happen, I'm not worried about if D happens or it doesn't. What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what. 

I found out that I am a people pleaser and will work on that but I can tell you I am not co-dependent. I can be alone and very happy that's why I am not worried about D. 

What I need to work on is doing what I think is right and sticking to my guns as long as what I'm doing is the best for me and my kids. Period.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You know, your ex's real beef may be that she and her new husband were enjoying having the kids gone half the time. She had it made.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I've gotten some really great advice from this post but a lot of the discussion really deviates from the issue at hand. I brought up child support but it honestly is not an issue at the moment with the ex and won't be if my wife and I did D. I pay more than enough for my kids and always will. I found out from my previous D that being single is not so bad. Even though my ex did remarry I am still raising my kids. I get along fine with her husband. The wife and I already had a discussion about what it'd be like if we D'd. Life is life and things happen, I'm not worried about if D happens or it doesn't. What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what.
> 
> I found out that I am a people pleaser and will work on that but I can tell you I am not co-dependent. I can be alone and very happy that's why I am not worried about D.
> 
> What I need to work on is doing what I think is right and sticking to my guns as long as what I'm doing is the best for me and my kids. Period.


My point was not necessarily about child support... It was if you piss off your ex how much would it cost... 

You have mentioned the "Child support issue" more than once so it is obvious that she is black mailing you so to speak, or she mentioned, or it is that you are borrowing worry about it. Which would be in the controlling, codependent, people pleasing realm that you are working to get out of...

So if she is using child support against you then don't let her. If you are borrowing worry then stop it. 

I am thinking that you should use this whole situation to move, in your mind and choices, to a place of happiness...


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I've gotten some really great advice from this post but a lot of the discussion really deviates from the issue at hand. I brought up child support but it honestly is not an issue at the moment with the ex and won't be if my wife and I did D. I pay more than enough for my kids and always will. I found out from my previous D that being single is not so bad. Even though my ex did remarry I am still raising my kids. I get along fine with her husband. The wife and I already had a discussion about what it'd be like if we D'd. Life is life and things happen, I'm not worried about if D happens or it doesn't. What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what.
> 
> I found out that I am a people pleaser and will work on that but I can tell you I am not co-dependent. I can be alone and very happy that's why I am not worried about D.
> 
> What I need to work on is doing what I think is right and sticking to my guns as long as what I'm doing is the best for me and my kids. Period.


"What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what."

That sounds like a recipe for a failed marriage if I ever heard one. 
I've read and heard time and time again from many marriage counselors and relationship experts that healthy, balanced marriages are ones that DO NOT put the children first. 
Ones in which their lives DO NOT revolve around their children, those in which mom and dad make the marriage a priority and make dates and time together and the children know their place. Mom and dad are married and their worlds don't revolve around us. Kids move out and then it will be just you two and if they have been your entire life you two will be strangers who have nothing in common anymore. 
Prioritizing kids over the marriage....not the best.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> You know, your ex's real beef may be that she and her new husband were enjoying having the kids gone half the time. She had it made.


He has his own kids and one of them lives with them fulltime. Exactly what I mean, deviate from the real issue.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

hinterdir said:


> "What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what."
> 
> That sounds like a recipe for a failed marriage if I ever heard one.
> I've read and heard time and time again from many marriage counselors and relationship experts that healthy, balanced marriages are ones that DO NOT put the children first.
> ...


Point well taken but when you have a blended family you have to also give the kids some kind of priority otherwise they will start feeling neglected or pushed to the side because of the new spouse. I see it all the time. I get there should be a balance but it's a little hard to prioritize a spouse when they are pushing to have one of the kids move out and use an ultimatum. It's all a balance.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> He has his own kids and one of them lives with them fulltime. Exactly what I mean, deviate from the real issue.


Actually, I'm confused as to what the real issue is. Your problem has been fixed and your son is good with living with his mom. 

The only issue I see remaining is your resentment for your current wife. When your ex brought up having the 19 year old live with her full-time several months ago, it didn't create a stink. But, when you talked to your son about the same thing then you become a dirty dog and in-turn you and your ex are now passing the buck to the new wife.

Just what culture encourages this hateful treatment of a pregnant woman?


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Actually, I'm confused as to what the real issue is. Your problem has been fixed and your son is good with living with his mom.
> 
> The only issue I see remaining is your resentment for your current wife. When your ex brought up having the 19 year old live with her full-time several months ago, it didn't create a stink. But, when you talked to your son about the same thing then you become a dirty dog and in-turn you and your ex are now passing the buck to the new wife.
> 
> Just what culture encourages this hateful treatment of a pregnant woman?


When my ex brought it up several months ago it didn't create a stink because it was something that was supposed to be gradual and brought up in passing to see how my son took it. When it didn't happen sooner, my wife got perturbed and then started acting like she was annoyed by his presence even though he did nothing wrong to her. We talked about why she was annoyed and all she could say was she didn't know, it could be the pregnancy hormones but she felt the way she felt and couldn't/wouldn't change it and laid the ultimatum down. So...I sped up the process but it didn't feel right. I felt like I was rushing him out, not for the baby, but so my wife wouldn't feel the way she was feeling.

Yes, he is fine now but I can't help but feel like I double crossed him in some way. Had my wife not gotten annoyed by him for no reason, things may not have gone the way they did. So there in lies my resentment for my wife. Trust me though, she does not get treated hatefully. It's the opposite due to the pregnancy. Everyone is bending over for her (which is fine) but not at the expense of a family member.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

UnsureFather said:


> Everyone is bending over for her (which is fine) but not at the expense of a family member.


Look I don't know you, but this just waved up a giant red flag to me. it sounds like you are super bitter and you don't like your wife very much at all. Why are you having yet another child with a woman you obviously resent like this?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

m.t.t said:


> Look I don't know you, but this just waved up a giant red flag to me. it sounds like you are super bitter and you don't like your wife very much at all. Why are you having yet another child with a woman you obviously resent like this?


Sounds like this issue didn't come up until after she was pregnant!!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> What I need to work on is doing what I think is right and sticking to my guns as long as what I'm doing is the best for me and my kids. Period.


Again, no regard whatsoever for your wife.



hinterdir said:


> "What I do know is that kids are what's most important no matter what."
> 
> That sounds like a recipe for a failed marriage if I ever heard one.
> I've read and heard time and time again from many marriage counselors and relationship experts that healthy, balanced marriages are ones that DO NOT put the children first.
> ...


Quoted for truth. Second wife and stepmum here.



UnsureFather said:


> Trust me though, she does not get treated hatefully. It's the opposite due to the pregnancy. *Everyone is bending over for her* (which is fine) but not at the expense of a family member.


Wow. I can't even.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

I love my wife very much and my soon to be son but the point some of you are misconstruing is the fact that my wife gave me an ultimatum that either my son moves out or she leaves. I don't care what you guys say but that's not cool for anyone to do pregnant or not. So how can I not be at least a little resentful against her for that. Does it mean I hold my kids higher than her? No but if one of my kids gave me an ultimatum that either my wife leaves or they will, I would have told them to start packing. I didn't tell my wife that, though I should have, obviously because I do hold her in high regard. 

To those saying that I'm not treating my wife well, which I am. What would you do if your new spouse told you that your child needs to move out or they will?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I love my wife very much and my soon to be son but the point some of you are misconstruing is the fact that my wife gave me an ultimatum that either my son moves out or she leaves. I don't care what you guys say but that's not cool for anyone to do pregnant or not. So how can I not be at least a little resentful against her for that. Does it mean I hold my kids higher than her? No but if one of my kids gave me an ultimatum that either my wife leaves or they will, I would have told them to start packing. I didn't tell my wife that, though I should have, obviously because I do hold her in high regard.
> 
> To those saying that I'm not treating my wife well, which I am. What would you do if your new spouse told you that your child needs to move out or they will?


I have not read every post lately so I don't really know what everyone is jumping on you about. 

I don't understand why she wanted your son to move in permanently with your ex. Did you guys need the room? Did she think that he needed to be on his own? You have other kids that are spending time at your house, one of them bio and still an early teen, right? 

So unless she needed the room for the baby I don't get it. 

But like I said before, I would have helped her pack if she gave me an ultimatum like that. Most especially without some valid reason for asking for the move. (Key words there valid, reason, and asking - BTW)


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

UnsureFather said:


> When my ex brought it up several months ago it didn't create a stink because it was something that was supposed to be gradual and brought up in passing to see how my son took it.


It looks like your current wife (not the de facto wife) got tired of waiting for the planets to align before someone brought it up in passing. I don't know how one goes about bringing it up in passing, though. Maybe as you're passing one another in the hall?

You are conflict avoidant so it is possible the son would still be living there at 40 before you ever brought it up.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> It looks like your current wife (not the de facto wife) got tired of waiting for the planets to align before someone brought it up in passing. I don't know how one goes about bringing it up in passing, though. Maybe as you're passing one another in the hall?
> 
> You are conflict avoidant so it is possible the son would still be living there at 40 before you ever brought it up.


While he may be conflict avoidant, and hopefully he is understanding and working on that....

How is it cool for his current wife to ask the 19 YO to move. Or asked another way, why does the 19 YO have to move at all? That is what I am asking.

My kids were allowed to live at the house and eat, with in reason, as long as they were in collage. Or paying rent, but it turned out to just be collage.

Why is this different? Is it because he is a step son? Other than, we need the space, I don't think it was necessary.

Now if they really needed the space, totally different deal...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Hey, it was the ex who started this whole ball of wax. Wife has it in her head that she doesn't want the baby camping in her bedroom until God knows when. Husband dragged his feet on "the talk' and wife lit a fire under his ass. 

It isn't really clear if wife just wants space or wants the son gone or just any body gone. I would point out that unless the OP has been privy to every interaction between his wife and his son, then he really doesn't know if there has been animosity between them. It, also, isn't clear why a couple of kids couldn't share a room.

It would be helpful to know how long the OP has been married to new wife and their ages. I guess it really doesn't matter, though, because the OP is determined to nurse his grudge.

And, may I add that what you allowed your kids to do doesn't necessarily translate for another couple.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Hey, it was the ex who started this whole ball of wax. Wife has it in her head that she doesn't want the baby camping in her bedroom until God knows when. Husband dragged his feet on "the talk' and wife lit a fire under his ass.
> 
> It isn't really clear if wife just wants space or wants the son gone or just any body gone. I would point out that unless the OP has been privy to every interaction between his wife and his son, then he really doesn't know if there has been animosity between them. It, also, isn't clear why a couple of kids couldn't share a room.
> 
> ...


No everyone is different, I get that. 

In relation to this thread though, why do you think he is out of line for his reluctance to ask him to leave?

Also, I just don't understand the tone of everyone. I have not read how New Wife needs 19 YO gone because she needs the bedroom. Did I miss that? I did not read where New Wife does not like 19 YO for whatever reason. Did I miss that? 

I don't understand how you and others seem to think OP if wrong for being upset that she wanted 19YO to leave. I am not seeing the reason that 19YO needs to leave. And I have not read a valid reason from OP, New WIfe, or Ex Wife, as to why the 19 YO needs to leave or why it is an issue. 

I am not trying to argue but I am not understanding the animosity toward OP for the whole situation. 

I get that he has issues, we all see them. 

But besides not setting eveyone down and having a family talk the proper way, what did he do wrong? 

While we are all different, lots of people think the same way. Some like you do apparently, some like me and some like whoever else. 

My point to all of this is: What it the overarching reason for the 19YO to leave? What is that reason. 

Because for me, if I married a woman, and if my kids lived in my house part time, or even full time. And, after the marraiage she wanted them or some of them to leave, I would have a huge problem with that, a huge one. 

Short of some type of valid reason for this, I would tell new wife to FO... 

While I don't expect you to agree with me, I would like to understand why you and others seem to have anomosity toward OP, in general. 

Besides the obvious, what did he do wrong????


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

*"Because for me, if I married a woman, and if my kids lived in my house part time, or even full time. And, after the marraiage she wanted them or some of them to leave, I would have a huge problem with that, a huge one."*

I guess BluesPower is one of the few that gets why I have resentment towards my wife. The MAIN reason she wanted him to move out and live full-time with his mom is that for some reason she was annoyed by him. He did nothing wrong to her, was respectful to her but for some unknown reason, she found him annoying (all of a sudden mind you) when this wasn't the case prior to being married. Can we use extra room with the baby coming? Sure but who can't use extra room at their house, however, we would have been fine as the other children share rooms and are ok with it. And to be honest, his now vacant room will likely be taken by one of the other children so it opens up no room for the baby, none whatsoever.

He is in college, works, is a good kid and was talking about moving out sometime in the next year or so. When I said "bring it up in passing" I meant bring up if he'd like to live in one spot instead of going back and forth and then moving forward with the conversation per his reaction.

There was no reason for my wife to "light a fire under my ass" as per my reasons above. It wasn't an emergency, it wasn't an unhealthy situation so therein lies my resentment.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> *"Because for me, if I married a woman, and if my kids lived in my house part time, or even full time. And, after the marraiage she wanted them or some of them to leave, I would have a huge problem with that, a huge one."*
> 
> I guess BluesPower is one of the few that gets why I have resentment towards my wife. The MAIN reason she wanted him to move out and live full-time with his mom is that for some reason she was annoyed by him. He did nothing wrong to her, was respectful to her but for some unknown reason, she found him annoying (all of a sudden mind you) when this wasn't the case prior to being married. Can we use extra room with the baby coming? Sure but who can't use extra room at their house, however, we would have been fine as the other children share rooms and are ok with it. And to be honest, his now vacant room will likely be taken by one of the other children so it opens up no room for the baby, none whatsoever.
> 
> ...


This is what I thought and why I was defending you. Yes you may have made a mistake, but this was and is not one of them. 

She basically got a burr up her ass and would not be an adult and talk about it. That is complete and total BS. 

Further, OP, this needs to be the last time that you acquiesce to this type of demand with anyone, your wife, your kids, your ex wife, just stop doing this crap. 

In the end it will make you unhappy. She had no reason for what she asked, and you should be pissed.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You can be 'right' or you can be happy. Keep nursing your grudge and see where that gets you. I wish an easy delivery for your wife and peace in your heart. Good luck.


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## UnsureFather (Apr 15, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> This is what I thought and why I was defending you. Yes you may have made a mistake, but this was and is not one of them.
> 
> She basically got a burr up her ass and would not be an adult and talk about it. That is complete and total BS.
> 
> ...


I shouldn't have acquiesced the first time and if my wife wasn't pregnant I probably wouldn't have and told her to go ahead and leave but I don't want my baby to start off in a broken marriage. Whether we will be together forever remains to be seen but after my first D I am much more open to living my life alone and happy rather than with a spouse and unhappy so we'll see. 

What I am taking from this though is that I can't just lay down and please everyone. I have to stand up for what I think is right against no matter who.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UnsureFather said:


> I shouldn't have acquiesced the first time and if my wife wasn't pregnant I probably wouldn't have and told her to go ahead and leave but I don't want my baby to start off in a broken marriage. Whether we will be together forever remains to be seen but after my first D I am much more open to living my life alone and happy rather than with a spouse and unhappy so we'll see.
> 
> What I am taking from this though is that I can't just lay down and please everyone. I have to stand up for what I think is right against no matter who.


Yes, the last statement is more that what you wrote. I hope that you take this situation and learn and grow from it. 

For example, I would read "Codependent no more" by whoever. That book can explain some of this in a more understandable way. 

It is not JUST "laying down" it is "This is why Laying down is a bad behavior". It is not just , "don't be a people pleaser" it is "this is why being a people pleaser is bad for YOU". 

What you need to do in general is "Learn to love yourself in a healthy way" .

That is kind of the core issue. And think about it, you can never ever make everybody happy, you just can't. So you need to do what is right for you, and what the right thing to do is. 

All I am saying is learn from this stuff. I was a lot like you in some ways and I cannot tell you how much happier I am loving myself, as much as I can, and doing the right thing for me and everyone else as much as I can.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I have a son who is a college student. He goes to college and works part time. I'm divorced, and he spends time in my household and also time with his dad. Just like most college kids, they come home during vacation, summer, holidays, etc. or go to college in their home town and live at home for college to save $$. It's pretty common.

If a new spouse of mine wanted to stop my college kid from coming over to my household, it would be a really really bad thing.


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