# Husband is out of work and I'm tired of being the breadwinner



## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

My husband and I have been married for 10 years and we have 2 kids. Even though he has a college degree, he’s worked as a waiter for over 20 years with no success at having a career. He was undocumented and didn’t have much money, but we bonded very quickly and got married about a year after we first met. I didn’t think much about finances back then and things were ok until after we had our daughter about 7 years ago. He worked nights at the restaurant and I worked 8 to 5, and did what we could to raise our daughter. 

Because of our schedules, we didn’t see each other much and I felt like a single mom for a long time. I tried very hard to be supportive of him. For example, he wanted to go into a nursing program a few years ago. I supported him and let him take the prerequisites at a local junior college, let him quit his job, and paid for everything for a while. There was no way I could have sustained it though. Because it would have taken him 2-3 years to take all the prereqs, then wait to get into one the RN programs at a nearby junior college, which only accepted about 30 students per year on average. After about a year, he got another restaurant job and tried to look for a better job.

He tried to find better work for the past 8 years but didn’t get a single job offer from anyone. About 3 months ago, he quit his restaurant job for a "contract" office job even though it didn’t make sense to me that he'd have to work 40 hours to get the same pay he did working about 25 hours a week at the restaurant. Also, our 9 month old baby needed to be in daycare full time. He thought there would be a possibility for it to lead to permanent work, so he made the switch even though I didn’t agree with him.

Fast forward just 3 months, the company told all the temps that the project got finished early, so the job ended in Jan. He's unemployed and I don’t know how long it'll take him to find work. I'm very worried about our finances and the possibility of him not finding gainful employment ... ever. Other than this temp job, no one has offered to hire him in the past 8 years. Our issues are largely because of that, and I've grown to be resentful over the years. My salary is just not enough to sustain having a stay at home husband. We live in a high cost of living area, and I barely make enough for a single person with her own apartment. He's great with the domestic stuff, but I feel that I've been forced into this breadwinner position without much of a choice. It's just not fair to me. 

I didn't think it'd be like this. I did odd temp jobs too over 10 years ago, but I never thought I'd be doing the same thing 10 years later. People grow and I just didn’t expect that he wouldn’t. Naturally, I didn't think he'd still be waiting tables for 20+ years. His English is an issue and he never did anything to improve it all this time. Some days, I feel almost fine but other days, I feel very unhappy and just want out. It's hard with two kids. I feel like everything is on me and me alone. He has been trying, but after 8 years of trying with no results, it's just not good enough, especially when you have kids in the picture. 

It's a very stressful situation. I feel very trapped but there’s not much I can do. Does anyone have any advice?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Could he go back to waiting tables?

There are risks to marrying just for love.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It is on him. He needs to dig deep and support his family. He needs to do what it takes. There are a lot of 3 month certifications out there that lead to.decent jobs. CDL truck driver and E.M.T. Being two. I have to say I have very little respect for your husband. I know you love him but he is not much of a man if he won't sacrifice and learn better English. A real man will walk through fire to serve and protect his family. Are you sure you didn't marry a boy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife hasn't worked in over 3 years, though she has a Master's and had worked daily for nearly 20 years before we got married. This is what that "for better, for worse, richer, or poorer" stuff was about. It's why we take vows. If marriage would always be what both parties imagined at the wedding, we wouldn't need vows. 
If the OP was a man, writing about his underemployed wife, how many folks here would advise him to divorce her?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> My wife hasn't worked in over 3 years, though she has a Master's and had worked daily for nearly 20 years before we got married. This is what that "for better, for worse, richer, or poorer" stuff was about. It's why we take vows. If marriage would always be what both parties imagined at the wedding, we wouldn't need vows.
> If the OP was a man, writing about his underemployed wife, how many folks here would advise him to divorce her?


Old school here my man. OPs H comes off as a pvssy! I have no sympathy for men who don't pull out all stops to support their family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> My wife hasn't worked in over 3 years, though she has a Master's and had worked daily for nearly 20 years before we got married. This is what that "for better, for worse, richer, or poorer" stuff was about. It's why we take vows. If marriage would always be what both parties imagined at the wedding, we wouldn't need vows.
> If the OP was a man, writing about his underemployed wife, how many folks here would advise him to divorce her?


True, since it's important that one of you stays home to raise your children and you make more money than he does, then he should be doing that and you should be happy with that situation assuming he is a good dad. If you can't make it alone on just your income then he should get a restaurant job at night, that way he is home during the day to be with your children.

When you met him he had worked as a waiter so you knew his occupation when you married him. It's not like he was a doctor and then quit his job to become a waiter after you married him. If you wanted a husband that has a career and made a good salary that's who you should have married.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Happilymarried25 said:


> True, since it's important that one of you stays home to raise your children and you make more money than he does, then he should be doing that and you should be happy with that situation assuming he is a good dad. If you can't make it alone on just your income then he should get a restaurant job at night, that way he is home during the day to be with your children.
> 
> When you met him he had worked as a waiter so you knew his occupation when you married him. It's not like he was a doctor and then quit his job to become a waiter after you married him. If you wanted a husband that has a career and made a good salary that's who you should have married.



What doctor would quit and wait table?

Ten years is a long time.. 20 even longer...

I had a shat job when I got married. Minimum wage crap.

Minimum wage to executive board in that same time.

I am grog! Watch me hunt for my family!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Typically...20 years in food services means your a manager already. 

Just saying...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

alphaomega said:


> What doctor would quit and wait table?
> 
> Ten years is a long time.. 20 even longer...
> 
> ...


Go grog!! Yeah!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

What's his degree? I'm curious now.


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## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

Thanks for all of your replies. He can go back to waiting tables, but he's already 45, so I can't imagine him being able to handle physical work until retirement. I have two brothers and both of them have said "you chose your life. What did you expect?" I was a temp doing odd one off office jobs around the time I met him, and I certainly didn't expect to be doing that forever. Should I have analyzed his earning potential? Calculated my rate of return? ROI? Maybe some women do that and I was stupid not to. Nobody waits tables thinking that he'll wait tables forever. My sister used to waitress but she's making six figures now. Most people grow and it just never occurred to me that he wouldn't grow in 10 years.

He is a very good father and very hands-on. I wanted him to have a day job for a long time so that we'd have more family time. That was probably one of the reasons he took the contract office job. He went from having an undesirable job to having no job. Believe me, I thought about the vows we took. For better or worse. But what if there was no better? And it just went from bad to worse. He did a medical assistant program a couple years ago, but wasn't able to fine any work. Everyone is only hiring people with experience. His English hasn't improved enough though I've done everything I could think of to help him. I feel bad for him and am sympathetic, but that won't help provide for our kids.


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## Basic"FairyDust"Love (Nov 19, 2014)

Why did you bring another child into this situation when things were already rough after having only one child?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Could you move to a cheaper area?

We all make our beds, OP. Most of us marry somewhat young (mid 20s) and hope for the best.

I do think your story is an excellent illustration of why to consider more than just "love" when marrying. Marriage is a practical arrangement, too.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I started out at minimum wage. Met Mrs. Conan when making nothing. Got far more successful to raise and pay for family. Kids are big and moved out now so dropped six figure work and am making 4 times less but more time with wife and less stress. OP, you could fully expect him to improve as time went on. Especially when children come along.

Maybe there were clues like his age and how long he had been going nowhere when you met him but kids are a game changer. He needs to sacrifice to provide. Doesn't he feel like crap? How does he look at himself in the mirror?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She said he was undocumented, Conan. I doubt he had the same realistic chances of bettering his financial position that you did.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

No comparison. I guaranty he didn't have it harder than me coming up. I will probably leave this one alone. I will never have a favorable view of any man who sits on his ass while his family suffers. I know many undocumented men who have killed it for their wives and little girls and boys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

The reality is that you married an undocumented guy with limited English. That means his job opportunities and earning potential are more limited - doesn't mean it's impossible for him to succeed but it's much harder. Meanwhile, you say he's a good father and helps around the house. And it doesn't sound like he's lazy about work, just hasn't found a way to earn more. 

You say it's not "fair" that the financial burden falls more on you but many men find themselves in the exact position you are in and I don't think they would start threads like this. Also, you are in this position because of the kind of person you chose to marry and have children with, so you are responsible for the situation. 

In any case, unless you think there is something your husband ought to be doing that he isn't, you're just venting. If your husband can't earn more, you really only have a few options. (1) You could own your breadwinner role more fully and find a way to earn more yourself. (2) you could reduce your expenses so you feel less financially stretched. (3) you could leave and find someone else, although if he's a good husband and father that doesn't seem like a good option. 

But you're never going to magically change your husband into a different person. I don't know if his inability to earn more is his fault or just reality. If it's just reality, stop shouting at the sky and work on what's in your control.


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## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

I don't think I believe in love any more. I've lost most of my respect for him and have thought about calling it quits. But the kids adore him and I can't imagine taking their father away from them. He feels bad about our situation and told me that he's trying. I do see that he's trying but I really need to see results. At what point do you throw in the towel? I'm just tired.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm old school as well and I personally have zero respect for a healthy male who sits on his wazoo while his wife supports him and the kids. Still, as a courtesy to those who purportedly believe in "equality", if we are going to have a standard, let's have one standard. Lots of wives don't work outside the home. Very few American women would admit they would ever marry for money, so if materialism and financial security aren't deal-breakers for a woman choosing to marry a man, they shouldn't be deal-breakers for staying married to one. When we agree to marry someone, none of us really knows whether our prospective mate will remain employed or healthy but we basically all promised to deal with whatever the future handed us. 
Just trying to imagine the diatribes that would flow from allegedly liberated women, here, if a man got on here and said he had lost respect for his wife and was about to kick her out because she had lost her job or because she didn't earn as much or more than he did, especially if she had entered the relationship as an illegal immigrant.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

It's fair for you to expect him to work. It sounds like there was no agreement for him to be a stay at home dad. 

Him being undocumented and having poor English will be a huge barrier to getting a decent job. Maybe he should pick up some night shifts waiting tables so he can pay for English classes. Have you guys made any moves toward him becoming a citizen?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> No comparison. I guaranty he didn't have it harder than me coming up. I will probably leave this one alone. I will never have a favorable view of any man who sits on his ass while his family suffers. I know many undocumented men who have killed it for their wives and little girls and boys.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We do not know what country he came from. Most countries are not nearly as rich and filled with opportunity as America.

I think he loves his family. He may not have the skills or vision to do more than he has.

OP, could you move to a lower cost of living area and then go back to school for a better job yourself?

While many people in our country improve their fortunes over time, not everyone does. If you are the one more able to do that, take advantage of it.

Not all men who make more money are good men. This one sounds like he loves you and your kids. That must be a comfort.

Could he get some career counseling somewhere?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

How does your English never improve when using it daily at your job? Do you mean his accent or like his vocabulary or grammar? 

Is he indeed a citizen at this point, or is he mostly restricted to jobs that pay under the table? He has a lot of food service/service industry experience, could he get a bartender license or something along those lines? Are there any programs that would help him do something like this as an immigrant?

The fact is, you don't seem able to support your family only on what you are making, but if you divorce you'll have to anyway. And you say he's good with the kids. If you are roughly his, age, chances of a rich doctor swooping in for a 45 year old mom with kids, likely very slim so only you and he are going to fix this, and you might need to be more proactive.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So you married someone who had been a waiter for 10 years when you met him, and you expected him to turn things around? And then proceeded to have two kids with him, including a second child a year ago? And NOW you're fed up and want him to provide for the family?

Unfortunately, you've set yourself up for being the financial support for your family, regardless of your marital status. You can talk to a lawyer about your situation in your area, but it's likely not pretty. 

The idea of moving to a location with a lower cost of living is a good start. Your expenses are the other half of your financial equation. You can try to improve you're earning potential. Other than that, all I can suggest is one of you taking permanent steps to prevent more kids.

C


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

It sounds like he did make an effort to better himself - he did nursing prerequisites and waited to get into nursing school. She paid for that with the understanding that he would become a nurse. Whatever happened with that? Did he get accepted and then not go? Or not get accepted at all?

Since the nursing thing didn't work out, then he should be looking for something else. Waiting tables brings in money, albeit not as much as a nurse most likely but it's better than nothing. 

I don't know anything about immigration, etc but is he documented and "legal" for lack of a better word? About his English, is he speaking good English but has a very thick accent that might not easily be understood, or can he not speak English well? If it's the latter, he should get into an ESL class.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

NineYears said:


> I don't think I believe in love any more.
> 
> * (sounds like you've chosen not to love your husband anymore). *
> 
> ...


*I hear that this is stressful. And if you're here to vent to release this stress, that's good. But I would suggest putting more energy into coming alongside your husband...discussing any and all option you both have to make this work for you and your family. Right now, it just sounds like a power struggle.*


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

It would really help to know more. What is his (& your for that matter) native language ? Did you both move to the USA or are you American ? When you say he is undocumented, what do you mean ? What is his college degree in and where did he get it ?

Many immigrants come to the USA (& UK) and carve out a successful life for themselves. Some have a higher business acumen than others and rapidly set up a business that they then grow. Others have a strong work ethic and work very hard to get ahead (often physically). Some are talented craftsmen or similar and set up a business relying on their skills. All of the above, if English is not their first language, learn enough English to make their work successful. 

I am assuming your husband is none of the above ? How did your husband land waiting jobs if his English is bad ? When you are saying he is trying hard, is it a question of he is willing to accept any job out there or is it a question of he will only look at jobs that he wants to do ? Can he drive (taxis, chauffeur, deliveries, courier)? Can he get a HGV license ? Can he cook ? Is he any good at remodelling, repairs, cars, electrical, plumbing, decorating, anything ? Is he good with numbers ? Could his native language help him (translation, embassy work etc) ?

I have friends who were from various foreign backgrounds who have made it with worse odds against them. I myself have worked (as a student) in packing factories, selling ice cream, jewellery, clothes, musical instruments, leather and have also worked as a security guard, moneychanger etc.

Perhaps you could paint a better picture of the situation.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
there are a lot of people in the US who are willing to work hard at a good job but can't find one. People with extraordinary talent will find a way to succeed, but don;t forget that no matter what we do, 50% of workers will be below average.

He may be doing everything within his abilities.

It is fine to marry for love - it is more important that anything else, but you need to do so with realistic expectations.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

The one other thing you have to keep in mind is that any work he does during the same hours you work = you have to pay for childcare. That means he'd have to earn enough to pay for the childcare and still have a good amount of money left over, or else it's not worth it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

John Lee said:


> The one other thing you have to keep in mind is that any work he does during the same hours you work = you have to pay for childcare. That means he'd have to earn enough to pay for the childcare and still have a good amount of money left over, or else it's not worth it.


This is a very good and valid point!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

You haven't described a lazy man here. You've described a man who doesn't live up to your expectations.

One of those two problems would be his to own. The other might be yours.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

So, if you divorce him, you ars still the breadwinner plus you'll be paying spousal support and day care. I hope you have a good job.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

NineYears, 

You are in a high-stress situation where financially you're not making it. You have every right and every reason to be stressed, upset, feeling trapped, angry at your husband who has not been able to financially contribute. You're in a scary place. 

Also, from your posts it sounds like you and your husband have spent a significant amount of your marriage working different shifts. I am guessing that your marriage has been stressed for quite some time even before this current financial crisis.

From your posts, at this time, I can't see a single thing that would be improved if you were to divorce. You would not have more money- you'd have less money and would likely be paying spousal support. Your children are currently on a dangerous financial edge, even if they don't know/understand, and it would only get worse with divorce. Plus emotionally, they would be devastated. I am not even including the pain and hardship divorce would put on your husband here- even without that horrible toll, is it really worth putting you and your children through a divorce at this time? 

If you believe that divorce would only make things worse, you might have more incentive to find a solution with your husband. It is much easier to get out of a scary place with a willing, able partner. It sounds like your husband is willing to at least try. 

Solutions are out there. Several have been mentioned here, including moving to a less expensive area, you finding a better job. If he got one temp job, maybe he can get others. He can always go back to work as a waiter, yes?

He might consider going into a trade- my husband changed gears and started an apprenticeship as an electrician in his mid-30s and he was not the oldest person in the class. The trade apprenticeships are great because the students have steady work, get paid, have benefits, and get training for only the cost of their books and their time. It took some time but he is making pretty nice money now!

If he has taken the nursing pre-reqs, it might be worth him continuing to pursue it. If you can find some way to squeeze it out for the time he's in school, a nursing salary would be a BIG help. If he is now legal, he can start by taking CNA classes- they are free in PA at several nursing homes- and get tuition reimbursement. Nurses make a nice living!

My best advice is to voice your concerns, fears, frustrations with your husband honestly, and at the same time, see that you both got into this place together. Neither is "the bad guy"; both of you made choices that led to where you are now, and you will get out of this scary place together as well. You're a team- stick together to work it out. Things won't always be this dark. 




NineYears said:


> For example, he wanted to go into a nursing program a few years ago. I supported him and let him take the prerequisites at a local junior college, let him quit his job, and paid for everything for a while. There was no way I could have sustained it though. Because it would have taken him 2-3 years to take all the prereqs, then wait to get into one the RN programs at a nearby junior college, which only accepted about 30 students per year on average. After about a year, he got another restaurant job and tried to look for a better job.
> 
> He tried to find better work for the past 8 years but didn’t get a single job offer from anyone. About 3 months ago, he quit his restaurant job for a "contract" office job even though it didn’t make sense to me that he'd have to work 40 hours to get the same pay he did working about 25 hours a week at the restaurant. Also, our 9 month old baby needed to be in daycare full time. He thought there would be a possibility for it to lead to permanent work, so he made the switch even though I didn’t agree with him.
> 
> ...


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok. I is ignorant.

What's undocumented?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

NineYears said:


> Thanks for all of your replies. He can go back to waiting tables, but he's already 45, so I can't imagine him being able to handle physical work until retirement. I have two brothers and both of them have said "you chose your life. What did you expect?" I was a temp doing odd one off office jobs around the time I met him, and I certainly didn't expect to be doing that forever. Should I have analyzed his earning potential? Calculated my rate of return? ROI? Maybe some women do that and I was stupid not to. Nobody waits tables thinking that he'll wait tables forever. My sister used to waitress but she's making six figures now. Most people grow and it just never occurred to me that he wouldn't grow in 10 years.
> 
> He is a very good father and very hands-on. I wanted him to have a day job for a long time so that we'd have more family time. That was probably one of the reasons he took the contract office job. He went from having an undesirable job to having no job. Believe me, I thought about the vows we took. For better or worse. But what if there was no better? And it just went from bad to worse. He did a medical assistant program a couple years ago, but wasn't able to fine any work. Everyone is only hiring people with experience. His English hasn't improved enough though I've done everything I could think of to help him. I feel bad for him and am sympathetic, but that won't help provide for our kids.


The problem I see is that he appears to be trying, but is not having much luck and you are unhappy about it. He took the office job with your encouragement, it did not pan out, and now you are pissed about it. How does that work?

I think you need to be honest with yourself. Are you upset because you don't think he is trying? Or is it that you expect a certain level of achievement and getting there is his problem?

You are free to do as you see fit. But, you need to remember that getting a job is not entirely within his control; someone has to agree to hire him. In that manner, this problem is far different from most here on TAM, whose resolution depends on people changing themselves.

Also, there seems to be a glut of educated professionals, at least in the current economy.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Ok. I is ignorant.
> 
> What's undocumented?


He was in the country illegally I think.


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## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

Thanks all. And RoseAglow, thanks for the encouragement. Unfortunately, we can't move to an area that costs less. My whole family is here, and while they don't help on a daily basis, they do help occasionally. Also, I bought the house we live in, so we can't just get up and move. I don't make a ton of money, but I don't spend much. I work hard and save every dollar I can. My sister and I paid the down payment together and I paid her back a couple years ago. His inability to contribute financially just made me more bitter and resentful over the years.

Do I really want a divorce? Maybe not. I don't want my kids to be without their father. I'm just so sad about this situation; I just want to cry when I think about everything. I have insomnia and tension headaches that last for 1-2 weeks because of this. Of course, I'm responsible for getting myself into this predicament, which is all the more reason why I feel sad and trapped.

Maybe undocumented isn't the right word. DH came as a college student on a student visa, got a degree in computer science and overstayed his visa. He became a citizen through me about 5 years ago. Considering that he's been here for 25+ years, his English really should be better. I don't speak his language, so we communicate in English. His accent is very heavy and his grammar is poor. He can't seem to write a single grammatically correct sentence. I don't think he has what it takes to succeed in a white collar job and have asked him how he felt about learning a skilled trade, like carpentry or plumbing, but he's not interested. He doesn't sit around doing nothing though and I didn't mean to give that impression. He's very hands-on, cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids. All I want to do is to better provide for my family. I went back to school while working full time a few years ago to get into a better career. I've done my part and I continue to do it and push myself everyday. I'm just tired.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Oh so he won't learn a trade. Well.... Can't really express my feelings for him on this forum. He sounds like such a"gem".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

NineYears said:


> Maybe undocumented isn't the right word. DH came as a college student on a student visa, got a degree in computer science and overstayed his visa. He became a citizen through me about 5 years ago. Considering that he's been here for 25+ years, his English really should be better. I don't speak his language, so we communicate in English. His accent is very heavy and his grammar is poor. He can't seem to write a single grammatically correct sentence. I don't think he has what it takes to succeed in a white collar job and have asked him how he felt about learning a skilled trade, like carpentry or plumbing, but he's not interested. He doesn't sit around doing nothing though and I didn't mean to give that impression. He's very hands-on, cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids. All I want to do is to better provide for my family. I went back to school while working full time a few years ago to get into a better career. I've done my part and I continue to do it and push myself everyday. I'm just tired.


Ok, well this is a little different than what I got at first. Why can't he be a programmer though? I don't think you have to have the best English writing skills to do that necessarily.

A bigger question in my mind though: what does he say about all this? What does he want? Does he say he wants to be a stay at home dad? Does he have dreams? Is he depressed by past failures? Is there some career he wants to try but can't get himself together for? Does he express concern over your family's finances or is he lackadaisical? I'm just wondering because it seems like a little bit of an enigma -- most of the complaints you get around here are more like "my husband is playing video games all day and won't get off his ass." This guy sounds a little different, doesn't sound lazy, so I'm wondering what the issue really is.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok. So...he got a degree in computer science....25 years ago.

So about the same time the computer industry was exploding exponentially, and the rise of the geeks started where they took over the world?

I have friends that graduated comp science at that time. You know...where they get hired at a small upstart company called Qualcomm, 35 employees...with some crazy dream about cordless phone circuit boards...but cordless phones that work in little cells across the city...

2 of my buddies in comp sci were hired there, actually. 

They are fu(kin loaded, now!!!!!! One still works there because he's got nothing else to do. The other left when he figured 30 million in shares was just the right amount of cash.

Of course...me...I took some stupid business course in finance...from a university that actually taught ethics. So it was the farthest thing from my mind in how I could get loaded off the hard earned dollars of each of us, get 500 million a year scamming everyone, and get a "get out of jail free" card from the government. 

Maybe I should have taken comp science back then with my buddies. Sigh...


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

alphaomega said:


> Ok. So...he got a degree in computer science....25 years ago.
> 
> So about the same time the computer industry was exploding exponentially, and the rise of the geeks started where they took over the world?
> 
> ...


Well the other day I took a cab home from work, and we were chatting, and I somehow I started to talk about how I had gotten into the wrong field, look at my buddy who learned programming and now works for [gigantic hot internet company] and how loaded he is options etc etc. And the young cabbie says to me "It's not necessarily like that though. I graduated with a computer science degree."


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

John Lee said:


> Well the other day I took a cab home from work, and we were chatting, and I somehow I started to talk about how I had gotten into the wrong field, look at my buddy who learned programming and now works for [gigantic hot internet company] and how loaded he is options etc etc. And the young cabbie says to me "It's not necessarily like that though. I graduated with a computer science degree."


But if your cabbie graduated 25 years ago...when most people had to take out a loan just to get a piece of crap home computer with a The Matrix style big ass monitor showing its green fluorescent characters....I'm sure he wouldn't be driving a cab right now.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm confused about the nursing thing. So he has to wait to get into a program but he's not working anyway so...

Did he pass the initial courses? 

What language? (if Spanish, at least where I live people who speak fluent Spanish are in pretty high demand).

My perspective may be skewed as I was married to a man who decided he didn't want to work anymore - he "wasn't interested" in figuring out a trade he could do either. I desperately searched job ads and community college programs trying to find the perfect job for him. Until it dawned on me that he was a healthy adult male and...WTF was I doing? I then dumped him and his narcissistic personality disorder. Best decision EVER. (Oh, and he "couldn't get" a job for a year and a half though he was trying very hard. He magically got one less than a week after I moved out.)

Honestly it sounds to me like OP's H is just not very interested in working at all and would prefer not to. He got through an American computer science program (from what I've heard, that's not easy now or then), so he's not incapable of improving his English skills or figuring out a job he could do.

OP, I would ignore the 'you made your bed and now you need to lie in it' posters and figure out your actual options - pros, cons, timing, finances, etc.

(For the record, I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. The awesome man I'm dating now finally left his selfish wife who thought her only job should be watching TV - he wanted a partner, not a dependent.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> She said he was undocumented, Conan. I doubt he had the same realistic chances of bettering his financial position that you did.


I think that once they married he could get his immigration papers. So then he could have done more.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I think that once they married he could get his immigration papers. So then he could have done more.


I still think it is unfair to compare Conan's situation to his. Conan grew up in America. This is a new country to OP's husband.

I can believe that OP's husband may not have great capabilities or motivation. Particularly capabilities.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NineYears said:


> I don't think I believe in love any more. I've lost most of my respect for him and have thought about calling it quits. But the kids adore him and I can't imagine taking their father away from them. He feels bad about our situation and told me that he's trying. I do see that he's trying but I really need to see results. At what point do you throw in the towel? I'm just tired.


You could start by setting a realistic goal for him. 

You say that he has a degree. What is his degree in?

If he has a degree, then he's an intelligent man. He should be able to learn English. The one thing that would probably increase his earning potential the most is if he did learn English very well. So perhaps telling him that this is what you need from him. He's at home with the kids right now. At least he's doing something very useful. So tell him that you while you understand that he's having a problem finding work, he needs to learn English to the point that he is completely fluent. Give him one year for this. He needs to immerse himself in the language.

What language do you all speak at home? English? His native language? What language do your children speak? 

Once he has English mastered, then he will most likely do better in the job market.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I'm old school as well and I personally have zero respect for a healthy male who sits on his wazoo while his wife supports him and the kids. Still, as a courtesy to those who purportedly believe in "equality", if we are going to have a standard, let's have one standard. Lots of wives don't work outside the home. Very few American women would admit they would ever marry for money, so if materialism and financial security aren't deal-breakers for a woman choosing to marry a man, they shouldn't be deal-breakers for staying married to one. When we agree to marry someone, none of us really knows whether our prospective mate will remain employed or healthy but we basically all promised to deal with whatever the future handed us.


I agree that we should have one standard. In my way of thinking, that standard should be that a couple gets to decide together whether or not both work, if one stays home with the children and who that person is. 

What’s wrong is for one spouse to make the unilateral decision not to work and to force the other into a bread winner position that they did not agree to be in. 

Sure there are cases where one spouse has health problems (physical or mental) and thus becomes disabled. That’s a different story. When this happens, then the healthy spouse does what is needed.

In the OP’s case, her husband is choosing to not learn English. He’s choosing to not work. That’s not acceptable. It’s not acceptable because he’s made a unilateral choice to not cooperate and work as a team with his wife.



unbelievable said:


> Just trying to imagine the diatribes that would flow from allegedly liberated women, here, if a man got on here and said he had lost respect for his wife and was about to kick her out because she had lost her job or because she didn't earn as much or more than he did, especially if she had entered the relationship as an illegal immigrant.


There have been threads on here written by men who were very upset because their wife quit her job or lost it. Then she would not go back to work. The advice given by just about everyone, male and female, was that this is not a choice a person can make unilaterally in marriage. That in these cases, the guy needs to tell his wife to get a job or he’s getting a divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NineYears said:


> Thanks all. And RoseAglow, thanks for the encouragement. Unfortunately, we can't move to an area that costs less. My whole family is here, and while they don't help on a daily basis, they do help occasionally. Also, I bought the house we live in, so we can't just get up and move. I don't make a ton of money, but I don't spend much. I work hard and save every dollar I can. My sister and I paid the down payment together and I paid her back a couple years ago. His inability to contribute financially just made me more bitter and resentful over the years.
> 
> Do I really want a divorce? Maybe not. I don't want my kids to be without their father. I'm just so sad about this situation; I just want to cry when I think about everything. I have insomnia and tension headaches that last for 1-2 weeks because of this. Of course, I'm responsible for getting myself into this predicament, which is all the more reason why I feel sad and trapped.
> 
> Maybe undocumented isn't the right word. DH came as a college student on a student visa, got a degree in computer science and overstayed his visa. He became a citizen through me about 5 years ago. Considering that he's been here for 25+ years, his English really should be better. I don't speak his language, so we communicate in English. His accent is very heavy and his grammar is poor. He can't seem to write a single grammatically correct sentence. I don't think he has what it takes to succeed in a white collar job and have asked him how he felt about learning a skilled trade, like carpentry or plumbing, but he's not interested. He doesn't sit around doing nothing though and I didn't mean to give that impression. He's very hands-on, cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids. All I want to do is to better provide for my family. I went back to school while working full time a few years ago to get into a better career. I've done my part and I continue to do it and push myself everyday. I'm just tired.


If you don’t mind sharing… what country is he from? Or at least what is his native language.

How on earth did he get a degree in computer science and not learn enough English to get by?

Why did he never get a job using his degree? There is plenty of work out there for computer scientists.

English is not my first language. So I think I can say something about this. An educated man who does not learn the language in which he was educated is not trying very hard. If he can learn computer science, he can learn English. Because we spoke many languages in my home growing up, my mother was huge on teaching us diction. She used to have us hold a pencil in our teeth and then we would have to recite poems in different languages. It’s amazing how that exercise can teach a person to get rid of an accent. 

Your husband is smart enough to self-teach the language with all the material that is out there. But then he needs diction classes to get rid of that accent. Or at least to moderate it to the point that it’s not a hindrance.

To me it sounds like your husband found someone who will pick up the slack for him and so he’s just fine with that. He does not care much what you think about it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

John Lee said:


> Well the other day I took a cab home from work, and we were chatting, and I somehow I started to talk about how I had gotten into the wrong field, look at my buddy who learned programming and now works for [gigantic hot internet company] and how loaded he is options etc etc. And the young cabbie says to me "It's not necessarily like that though. I graduated with a computer science degree."


I graduated with a computer science degree. I've never had a problem getting a very well paid job. Now I've not hit the 30million mark, but the jobs have always been there. Anyone who has a degree in CS and is not earning a living at it either does not want to or just did not look very hard for work.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> I still think it is unfair to compare Conan's situation to his. Conan grew up in America. This is a new country to OP's husband.
> 
> I can believe that OP's husband may not have great capabilities or motivation. Particularly capabilities.


I disagree. Just because a person grew up speaking another language does not mean that they cannot function in the USA or that the cards are stacked against them. 

OP's husband has a degree in computer science from an American university. He's an educated man who probably got his degree paid for. So he's not even saddled with the debt that most American students are today. 

I know many many people who did not grow up with the USA, who came here got a degree and are doing very well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I disagree. Just because a person grew up speaking another language does not mean that they cannot function in the USA or that the cards are stacked against them.
> 
> OP's husband has a degree in computer science from an American university. He's an educated man who probably got his degree paid for. So he's not even saddled with the debt that most American students are today.
> 
> I know many many people who did not grow up with the USA, who came here got a degree and are doing very well.


I thought it was from a foreign university. That does change the picture.

I will take another look at her later posts. I think I only read to page two before.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, caught up. He is not very motivated. Hope OP can find out why, and get him to address it.

Like someone else said, maybe he just wants to be a SAHP. Not fair to OP, but a gamble every married person takes, I guess, male or female.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Ok. I is ignorant.
> 
> What's undocumented?


A euphemism for Illegal Alien.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I graduated with a computer science degree. I've never had a problem getting a very well paid job. Now I've not hit the 30million mark, but the jobs have always been there. Anyone who has a degree in CS and is not earning a living at it either does not want to or just did not look very hard for work.


Nerd.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Nerd.


psssstttt to you


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

alphaomega said:


> Nerd.


LOL! &#55357;&#56841;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

His can degree is from 20 years ago. It's totally outdated and useless. I don't speak his language so English is the only language we can communicate in. After being here for 25 years, his English is still weird - heavy accent and very bad grammar. I've gotten so tired of correcting him because it just doesn't make any difference. I've been editing his resume and cover letters for years, and only recently found out that he's been making his own edits after mine. Adding stuff like "scoops of regulation" in his resume when he meant ..."scope of ..." I have no idea how he passed his college English class. He's been looking for full time work and applying for a lot of jobs online, so it's not that he doesn't want to work.

I didn't want him to take the temp job. I was against it because the math didn't add up. He had to work about 15 more hrs per week for the same take home pay as when he was waiting tables, but he went ahead with it anyway.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Sometimes we have to do strategic moves in gaining our experience for our resumes.

The job paid the same, but now he has something on his resume that isn't food services.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Not really sure you can consider it a good strategic move if it didn't help any and now he's unemployed.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

It doesn't matter if his degree is from 20 years ago. What is useless is that he hasn't worked in the field for 20 years. The fact that he passed a Computer Science degree from an American university at a time when not too many people were doing this kind of degree says that he can achieve.

It may be that his lack of English held him back and he was hoping to be welcomed into the workforce with a red carpet and then got discouraged when this didn't happen.

It may be that he doesn't have a lot of confidence and drive and took the easy way out - waiting on tables where too much is not expected of him.

It may be that he found YOU! Someone prepared to "carry" him and the responsibility.

Or a combination of one or more of the above. In any case, it was only a matter of time before you would burn out! He now has to understand this and take on some of the load - even if it means you dictating step by step what he has to do. If he is not prepared to do this, he will drive you into an early grave!

Go out and get a couple of programs that someone like him could join - retrain in something or a schedule for multiple driving jobs (daytime and evening). Have him sign up for these and tell him that failure at any of them is not an option and will almost certainly lead to divorce (with him still needing to shoulder the responsibility for baby sitting but will not receive income from you anymore).


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

What's the problem here? You chose to marry someone that overstayed a visa and was not here legally and then expected him to support you. Now you are supporting him. So get divorced and deal with the legal system. You will probably pay alimony and perhaps child support depending upon custody arrangements. It could be worse as he could be cheating on you as well as not working and this would matter little in the courts. Just move on but be prepared for the negative consequences of the US legal system. Most likely you will come out of this worse financially than you went in. Fair? No, but that's the way it goes. After 20 years are you expecting much to change?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NineYears said:


> His can degree is from 20 years ago. It's totally outdated and useless. I don't speak his language so English is the only language we can communicate in. After being here for 25 years, his English is still weird - heavy accent and very bad grammar. I've gotten so tired of correcting him because it just doesn't make any difference. I've been editing his resume and cover letters for years, and only recently found out that he's been making his own edits after mine. Adding stuff like "scoops of regulation" in his resume when he meant ..."scope of ..." I have no idea how he passed his college English class. He's been looking for full time work and applying for a lot of jobs online, so it's not that he doesn't want to work.
> 
> I didn't want him to take the temp job. I was against it because the math didn't add up. He had to work about 15 more hrs per week for the same take home pay as when he was waiting tables, but he went ahead with it anyway.


edits like "soops" instead of "scope" will keep him from ever finding a job. No one will hire a person who has that kind of mistake on their resume. Could it be that he consciously, or subconsciously, makes those erroneous edits to ensure that he does not get a job? Honestly, he sounds like a guy who just does not really want to work. He has you to support him so why would he need to work?


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## NineYears (May 19, 2013)

Manfromla and EleGirl, thanks for your comments and advice. I appreciate it.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

A lot of people here are speculating about his ability to be employed or not be employed successfully, especially in a computer career. There are so many variables with employment, that such speculation is, in my opinion, meaningless. In fact, if the wrong conclusion about potential employability is embraced, then the attitudes and assumptions that spring from that conclusion could be injustly hurtful to your relationship and marriage.

Has he been to an objective career counselor? Especially as opposed to just an employment agency who is less likely to be honest about dim prospects? I think it is important to get the opinion of someone who is/would be familiar with your husband's specific qualifications (or lack of them), the reality of the job market, etc. I especially would think that the realities of age discrimination needs to be considered. As I understand it, the computer/tech field has a tendancy to regard those above a certain age as obsolete, whether it is actually true or not.

I think a professional opinon would be better than speculation in this regard.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I am not speculating about his ability to be employed now. 

I am speculating about his frame of mind 20 years ago when he had the degree and I am in the field and can vouch for the fact that he would have been in demand then - if not as a programmer or technical person, then in sales and marketing or support. There was a shortage of such people in the 80s and 90s. 

It is that same frame of mind that has driven him to not seek out better employment in a practical and driven way. Which is why OP has to take matters into her hands and drive him.

Even if it is in the catering business or whatever he seems to be comfortable with.


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