# Dependency...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It is becoming apparent that my wife's self-esteem and confidence has become overly dependent on how I see her. Hell she doesn't even take in compliments from everyone else either then to use that against me during arguments and manipulate me into appreciating her more.

I miss the woman that I had who even I simply couldn't rattle, and even when my wife seems to attempt to stand up for herself with me it is apparent it's more of a show, and that I've truly become her weakness.

Sure I'm an insensitive b--tard and heck she has recently realised that much of the reason is due to the fact I sometimes questioned my decision of marrying her as she's not of my own ethnic. But where's that fire she used to have?

I remember a woman once who told me "I'm not ****! I'm not ****! I'm ME!"... she told me once she is who she is, and I can either love her or leave her. WHERE IS THAT? Hell if she even showed me some REAL backbone in our last fight it would have ended it there and there.

Now not only is she feeling like crap but I'm having to k-ss her ass just to stop her from negative thinking. Nowadays she lacks the same backbone as it was in the past. No matter what I try, no matter whether I throw lovey doveys or sh-t in her face, she's dependent on me.

How the heck do I make her strong again? WITHOUT being dependent on me? Much of the reason of my insensitivity and a$$hole behaviour is based on my own political thoughts but the rest is due to the fact that she simply doesn't stand up for herself properly as she used to in the past.

Threaten me, hit me, leave me, make me jealous, but no matter what... I don't want her to be dependent on me for her own self esteem! *sighs* I'm getting MORE and MORE afraid of what I say to her in case she gets hurt, I remember the days when no matter what I said to her she comes back with great comebacks and refused to allow my words to hurt her. Hell she even made me look the idiot!

This is not the way I want this marriage to go. I've waited all my life for a woman who can handle me, and I betrayed my own people for her because she was unique and too rare to let go. I wasn't even attracted to her physical features but she managed to get me involved in a freakin IR relationship too due to her personality. But now she's turned to this...

Come to think of it, if she never changed, even the political nonsense I think up wouldn't even be digested in my mind. But now she's no longer that unique, beautiful and strong woman I once fell in love with... she's become NORMAL!

Right now she's either a "wounded dove" or "delicate flower"... but once she used to something else, so what have I done? What could I have possibly have done to make her like this! And please someone tell me how to get her back!

Or have we just grown apart - as is typical with many marriages?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

This sounds so much like my wife. I recognized years ago that my wife has self-esteem issues (some of her family even said the same thing). As a matter of fact, part of her "reason" for her desire to divorce is I don't make her happy. I know I was not the perfect husband and I've made many mistakes but how does someone else make you happy? 

I think both of us are in the same situation meaning we can't fix our wives. They have to come to the realization on their own that they have issues that need to be dealt with. You can't make someone want to chane. I know its not encouraging to hear with your willingness to make your marriage work but I wish I had a better answer for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

There has to be way, somehow, someway, there's always a way. We've gone through heaps and I'm not wanting to give up. Against the odds is what we're used to, but this... I don't know the answer either, not even a freakin hint...

Even being nicer to her to help build her confidence won't fix this, she's still dependent on me. In response to our last fight she expressed her hurt over what I said... but what if she expressed that she won't put up with my BS like what she did in the past...
"I'm ME!" Simple words, yet with so much meaning to me.

The two statements express different attitudes. The woman I fell for had the latter, the woman I'm with... seems to have forgotten. And hell even if I tell her all this will she change, or will she just decide to get better with her acting?

I chose her not only did I respect and love her so dearly but she was the ideal mother of my child and my obvious partner in life. But no matter what I do she just seems to get weaker and weaker, and it leads to further problems such as manipulations.

I really miss her and the old times.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm with you. My wife went to IC a few years ago nut stopped after 3-4 sessions. I guess either she thought she was "fixed" or it was starting to hit too close to home and she bailed. IDK. What I know is change begins from the inside. It doesn't matter how many people see a person's issues. Until they see it themselves, lasting change will never take place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm... I've been thinking...

I'm bouncing left and right about the prospect of even bringing this up with her, since I have to make up (kiss her a$$ in other words) for the time being. However, I've been trying to answer this on my own without her input. Opinions on my thoughts would be great...

As a SAHM, perhaps her emotional dependency on me is expressive of her financial dependency as well. As for social dependency maybe we need to give each other more space and meet more friends however... since a little incident years ago with my old mates, we made sure that any of my friends - has to be friends with her first, and vice versa.

Sure... being a mother can be a full-time job, especially when our daughter is still very young but I don't know... she seems to have been a lot more esteemed when she had goals and dreams for herself. Now it's like... meh... what you think?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You've broken her spirit. She doesn't want to fight.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Then how to play hero either then kissing her backside?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Just stop.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I think being responsible for a child while having someone else be fully responsible for your financial well being can be both isolating and difficult for many women. My suggestion would be allowing her time to take up hobbies or a part time job/interest that reminds her that she's still a whole person. Generally women mistakenly give up much of themselves to raising their families and then re-find themselves when their children get older all to the confusion of their husbands.

Granted, I know your back story so who knows. Either way, she's still inside there and if you keep poking her I'm sure you'll see her in full swing. Maybe you should work on actually creating security elsewhere besides the bank.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Sure... being a mother can be a full-time job, especially when our daughter is still very young but I don't know... she seems to have been a lot more esteemed when she had goals and dreams for herself. Now it's like... meh... what you think? *

Being a SAHM IS a full time job.... and can get lonely and uninspiring. I remember saying I'd PAY to go to work with grown ups.... where no one is spitting up, dont have to look down anyone's pants, everyone KNOWS where their freakin shoes are.... and on and on and on.... Not inspiring. 

Time to get her fired up about something she loves. Whether it is additional education (for when the kid goes to school) or a class in her favorite topic (for quality grown up time), or time for her to really persue her favorite hobby.... OUTSIDE the home. I think it is independence that makes the difference... even if you are dependent financially.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

I think she might need some counseling. Or, something to re-invigorate her sense of self. She sounds depressed. I understand this. Is there any way you can talk to her about this? Is there any way you guys could go to marriage counseling and get her to hear our perspective on this. I bet she's just as unhappy about feeling dependent on you as you are about having her be that way. She needs to be caught up with a sense of purpose that makes her feel happy and alive again; try and encourage that and be careful not to break her spirit with much at this time. She really does sound like her spirit is a bit wounded.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

How can I talk to her about this? How can I even let her know? Heck, besides, considering me printing out my recent threads at her request made her go all "waah waah"! So it's made it very hard for me to trust her again to know how I feel. She'll just start throwing a fit and make me feel horrible for hurting her. 

As for hobbies, she still carries on with them, she still does exercise, dancing, homemaking, enjoys time with our mutual friends - that I am grateful for, my daughter still gets out there, never stuck at home for too long. Everyone is getting more busy nowadays however, seems our generation has reached "young marriage" age. 

I've never put her down for them, her exercise has kept her fit along with her dancing, which is very graceful and beautiful - she even taught me a few moves. And I love what she does with the house, and as I have mentioned I love her social ability - she is also very well connected with a good network of friends.

Her cooking though... BLEH... it's her hobby but seriously, I can't help it but owning and operating my own restaurant makes me very picky with taste and quality of food. I've trained her however, and she has got better over time. I'm also training myself as I wish to open up my own ****tail bar later in life, as my restaurant is already well and established.

Her hobbies doesn't seem to help though. I've got her to help me out at my restaurant a few times, and I have an office which is more like a bedroom so it was nice to have my whole family in our "second" home so to speak. But hey... once again, still dependent.

What inspired her in the past was helping others like her when she was young, it drove her with passion and ambition - with REVOLUTIONARY ideals. Even wanted to open up her own church and such, despite being "pagan" I supported her all the way until she stopped believing in herself and believed in whatever the bible college taught her.

Personally I don't know who broke her down, me or her church. Bah... in the end I guess we both did, first her church then me. I had to - twice, the recent event late last year, as she was using her religion to manipulate me - the reason I joined this forum. I deleted the thread but there's another made by another member with exactly the same issue: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relati...marriage-christian-fundamentalist-spouse.html

It seems she is still very much lost and confused. I've talked to her about it though but it doesn't seem to really help rebuild that fire she once had. Back in the day, she could really move mountains. She charmed and inspired others including me.

Still I don't know... my wife shattered my dreams, no wait. No she didn't, I did. I chose her over my own dreams, and she did vice versa... yet my happiness isn't dependent on her. Oh hell wait... actually it is, because I want her to be happy and I want our family be to strong too.

Oh hell come to think of it we're both f--ked!
Ok, now I'm even more confused and lost myself...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell and even reminding her of who she once was just p-sses her off and makes her all "waaa waaa" as well -.-

I don't know, I may have changed, and I am happy as long as my wife and daughter are happy... but I still have my backbone. What made her lose hers?

She still has hobbies, we both sacrificed our dreams to be together, yet where's that backbone of hers... Wait, is this fear?! Bah this is stupid... looks like I've identified a new problem within this problem (sorry, this is getting very complicated)

Looking back, it seems her strength still carried her, on injured wings but she still flew... up until I had to kick her out triggering a seperation late last year that has really shaken her up. Now she's become rather... meh...

Fear that I may seperate from her again... *sighs*
I guess it seems our "honeymoon" ended years ago before marriage, when she entered bible college, and when I refused to support her, only got disgusted that she would betray her own revolutionary values, that we both stood for together - despite being of TWO different faiths.

That was the honeymoon period, we stood together despite being of different backgrounds, upbringing, religions, dreams, aspirations. Then we started to fight each other...

Hell I don't know what to do, even thinking back at those times and looking at how for years that honeymoon has faded is really digging into me. Funny, never once did I complain about making love to her during those times. She was not just a challenge, but a woman worth my all... BAH! 

Now I'm depressed


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

People change all.the.time.

Experiences change us, whether we want to admit it or not.

Life is about growing and changing. 

I'm no longer the mosh pitting, punk/goth girl that I was in the late teens early 20s and that's ok! I still enjoy the music, but that's about it.

I no longer want to spend hours on my art. I do it from time to time, but it's not an obsession for me like it once was. I have other things I like doing and many of them revolve around my roles as wife and mom. That's ok.

Evolve and don't be afraid of letting the past go. 

/soapbox :lol: Geez. (laughing at myself  )


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## Sameold (Aug 11, 2011)

I've read several of your threads. IIRC, you can't be affectionate in public with her because of racial tensions in your area. We've got a mixed marriage, too. It would hurt me a lot for him not to be affectionate with me in places where others might notice. That would be an everyday, ongoing pain. I know you've got the business, can't relocate, etc. Then there's the fear--if someone realizes we're together what will they do to us, what if they hurt our kid? (And we live in a part of the US where it's mostly a non-issue, but there's still just that little niggling extra worry.)
I'd also be really unhappy if my husband thought he'd betrayed his tribe by marrying me. What is up with that idea of yours? How does it betray your people to marry someone outside your group? Doesn't that also bring your wife, and now your child into your group? If not, why not?
If you keep starting fights with her when she stands up for herself, why should she bother? It didn't work--you didn't stop the fighting--so why not just back down? That, you see, is working, isn't it? If she shows she's upset and unhappy, you stop starting fights. 
You say she's good at activism. You've got a cause you want to be active about, don't you? Preserving your culture. Any way you can recruit her to your cause and work together on it?
I think your family should take a long vacation, since you can't move, to somewhere where your racial differences will be a non issue. Take a couple months off. Dealing with that BS adds so much pressure to a marriage, and if you can get away from it for a while, maybe you can deal with some of the other problems, those that you can do something about.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I am most happy when I am helping others. Maybe your wife is the same and needs that to keep her inspired. For one year I didn't have a full time career in the non-profit world (before that I juggled the kids and our own non-profit) and I was a mess. I was a miserable mess. In fact, it's when I found the marriage forums. I thought it was my marriage that was a mess but realized it was me after getting back into work. 

If your wife is the same, forget hobbies, move her towards pursuing her passion so that all her displaced energy doesn't crumble around the two of you.

In the meantime, give up this ghost about mixed marriage and the like. Find your strength from one another and make it strong enough to face all the racial stuff. We're a mixed marriage too. He was born in Bolivia, I'm a cliche girl from the shore. Our parents didn't like it, he struggled (still sometimes does) with keeping up with his culture and his people...eventually we realized our family consisted of the people who mattered most.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Sameold



> I've read several of your threads. IIRC, you can't be affectionate in public with her because of racial tensions in your area. We've got a mixed marriage, too. It would hurt me a lot for him not to be affectionate with me in places where others might notice. That would be an everyday, ongoing pain. I know you've got the business, can't relocate, etc.


That's another thing, we can indeed relocate and I wouldn't mind a longer trip to work. But the problem is that the missus being the stubborn (and in this case naive) lady she is, wants to stay and has settled in. And she believes we're making a difference... bleh! But that's her opinion, have to agree to disagree on that one. 

To stand and fight is well and nice sure, idealistic, but we're not Spartans who live just to fight to the death despite being outnumbered. We're a family, and our child obviously does not deserve foolish idiot parents. I've been a fighter all my life but I know my limits, I'm no superman who can take down hordes while protecting his wife and child at the same time. But so far it's only been drive-by beer bottle throwing and cuss words and ongoing stares. I'd like to keep it that way, even if it means pushing my wife away. Besides she's no fighter.

But this is also my fault, I bought our house here in ******* central just to prove a point to my mother-in-law. It was affordable and I simply wasn't thinking straight - was too p-ssed off.



> Then there's the fear--if someone realizes we're together what will they do to us, what if they hurt our kid? (And we live in a part of the US where it's mostly a non-issue, but there's still just that little niggling extra worry.)


Aye, Australia however is a tad behind really it seems. I'm not worried about what may happen to me but I am worried about my family. Gone are the days when I didn't really care if I lived or died, and gone are the days of no responsibility. I already have a record for assault and grievous bodily harm charges so even fighting in self-defence for my family would mean I would end up paying more court fines - and it's rather obvious who they will favor. Even if I say I acted in self-defence then they can make up any story they wish and in the end they are the ones with the evidence - their damages. And I'm not willing to have to spend another few months getting through another stupid court case. It stresses the hell outta me in addition to everything else.

@Trenton



Trenton said:


> I am most happy when I am helping others. Maybe your wife is the same and needs that to keep her inspired. For one year I didn't have a full time career in the non-profit world (before that I juggled the kids and our own non-profit) and I was a mess. I was a miserable mess. In fact, it's when I found the marriage forums. I thought it was my marriage that was a mess but realized it was me after getting back into work.
> 
> If your wife is the same, forget hobbies, move her towards pursuing her passion so that all her displaced energy doesn't crumble around the two of you.


Hmmm... interesting, this really clicks in and makes sense. I think I'll talk to her about this. Her passion once used to be for the church to minister to other women who went through her kind of youth. But she can most definitely still minister without a religious note... or maybe not, as she feels her god saved her... meh, I dunno.



> In the meantime, give up this ghost about mixed marriage and the like. Find your strength from one another and make it strong enough to face all the racial stuff. We're a mixed marriage too. He was born in Bolivia, I'm a cliche girl from the shore. Our parents didn't like it, he struggled (still sometimes does) with keeping up with his culture and his people...eventually we realized our family consisted of the people who mattered most.


Well the racialist public is a reality we have to face day by day. My own political views against my people and I mixing are mostly just my own thoughts and doubts. I can't find strength in her when she's like this. I guess being stuck in ******* central isn't really helping either is it? Bah!


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

If you made it all about your daughter's welfare, do you think your wife would consider moving? Has she considered problems your daughter may have once she starts school? She won't be there to protect her child then.


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