# Emotional Manipulation??



## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

My husband and I have been struggling in our marriage for the past year. We've been together for 5 years, married for 2 and a half years. We have 2 very young children together.

My husband struggles with depression and all kinds of mood swings, anxiety. Most of this was hidden from me at the earlier stages in our marriage. I've fought tooth and nail to help him conquer his demons, but he is simply unwilling to get help or treatment. He's refusing to do therapy, with or without me. He never leaves the house; especially now that he's not working.

I care about my husband, but I can't do this cycle anymore... I can't help him if he's not willing to help himself. I'm loosing my life because he is unwilling to try at anything. I'm 27 years old... I feel like I'm 45.

Anyways, I finally told him this past weekend that I want to break up. I told him that I'm exhausted and have nothing left to offer him and I just want to be free. He was very obviously hurt and started getting very emotional, which I understand. I tried to support him. He was worried about the kids, and the fact that he wouldn't see them very often; I tried to reassure him that I am not out to take custody, or even his money. I just want to be free of the dark cloud that hung over us. I told him that he could stay in the house until he found a job... I offered to sell the house and split the money.. I offered to buy him out, so he could buy another house. I want to help him land on his feet. I even offered to let him have the house, once he had a job and could afford it.

He declined all of these and asked if we could work out the details later, because he was too upset to think rationally. I agreed to that and let it be for a couple days.

I was at work today, and he texted me saying he was moving to his mom's house, 2 and half hours away, because he is worthless and doesn't deserve anything better. He told me that he doesn't matter anymore and doesn't want to make me uncomfortable in my own house... things like that. I asked him to stay so that he could see the kids more often and told him I would go stay with my parents until we can sell the house. He said he didn't want that. We only have one car, so he won't even have a vehicle where he's moving.

I'm disappointed that he's being difficult and feeling sorry for himself. Oh, and he's also stopped taking his depression medication since we spoke the first time. I feel like he's getting into a HUGE low period.

I want to help him... but I feel like helping him will just pull me back in. I almost feel like he's manipulating me. I also got a text from his mother this morning, saying that she will love me no matter what and that "it's not what happens TO us, but how we deal with it, that matters" I don't know what she meant by that. I didn't respond.

Am I crazy? Am I being too unreasonable? I am feeling TERRIBLE about him not being there for my kids. Like its somehow my fault that their father is moving so far my away. My son is turning 2 on saturday, and he's refusing to come to his birthday party because he says "it'll be awkward" I'm so disappointed that he's missing my son's birthday. I keep asking him to attend.

I don't know what to do.. my heart is feeling so sore for him, I feel terrible, like I'm leaving him to die. But at the same time, I think I've done everything I can to offer support and to help him land on his feet.

Im frustrated and looking for support... or advice...?
Thx


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Emotional manipulation is my specialization.



gyspy14 said:


> I was at work today, and he texted me saying he was moving to his mom's house, 2 and half hours away, because he is worthless and doesn't deserve anything better. He told me that he doesn't matter anymore and doesn't want to make me uncomfortable in my own house... things like that.


Meet the victim. This behavior is common, much more than people can imagine. It is an attempt to get perceived aggressors to back down, seeing a wounded victim.

Let him eat his words 100%. Do not give in. Do not agree or deny. Just let him say it.



> I'm disappointed that he's being difficult and feeling sorry for himself. Oh, and he's also stopped taking his depression medication since we spoke the first time. I feel like he's getting into a HUGE low period.


Might he be extorting you? Maybe he is signaling that he won't get better unless you back off from your desires?



> I want to help him... but I feel like helping him will just pull me back in. I almost feel like he's manipulating me. I also got a text from his mother this morning, saying that she will love me no matter what and that "it's not what happens TO us, but how we deal with it, that matters" I don't know what she meant by that. I didn't respond.


It is manipulation from him, plain and simple. But realize that there is a human being that is suffering under the veil. Empathize with him, but do make him eat any poison he gives. No escalation. No debates.




> Am I crazy? Am I being too unreasonable? I am feeling TERRIBLE about him not being there for my kids. Like its somehow my fault that their father is moving so far my away. My son is turning 2 on saturday, and he's refusing to come to his birthday party because he says "it'll be awkward" I'm so disappointed that he's missing my son's birthday. I keep asking him to attend.


He can only offload this emotional burden on you if you accept it. He is his own person and you have to make him 100% responsible for his words. When he realizes there is no slack on your end, he will think twice before trying to use his emotions. 

In my writings, I say that individuals use their emotions as tools, usually to get something.



> I don't know what to do.. my heart is feeling so sore for him, I feel terrible, like I'm leaving him to die. But at the same time, I think I've done everything I can to offer support and to help him land on his feet.


Where are your feelings in this? Who is thinking about you?


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Where are your feelings in this? Who is thinking about you?


Ha! My therapist says this aaall the time. He keeps having to bring me back to myself, and self care. I started going to therapy when my husband refused to go. I figured maybe I could go and get the help he needs... it sounds silly now, but there was a point in time when i really thought that I could love his depression away... and I thought that if I did it all FOR him, it would fix everything.

I was very wrong. But going to therapy was the best thing... because he's helping me fight for myself in all this.

Thank you so much for your response.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

gyspy14 said:


> Ha! My therapist says this aaall the time. He keeps having to bring me back to myself, and self care. I started going to therapy when my husband refused to go. I figured maybe I could go and get the help he needs... it sounds silly now, but there was a point in time when i really thought that I could love his depression away... and I thought that if I did it all FOR him, it would fix everything.
> 
> I was very wrong. But going to therapy was the best thing... because he's helping me fight for myself in all this.
> 
> Thank you so much for your response.


I am so happy to hear your reply. The way I see it, it takes two to tango. It takes two people's emotional needs to be met to build a strong and enduring marriage. When it is uni-directional, we don't call that love.


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

For anyone following this... here is an update:

My husband and I sat down Tuesday night, after he told me he would be moving away with his whole, "I don't matter anymore" speech. He told me that he sees now how he had been very guarded, and that he loves me and wants to fight for me. He told me that it feels like I'm ripping his heart out, and that he just wants me to be happy; no matter what that looks like. He seemed very sincere, and I felt incredibly terrible!! I told him that I never wanted for him to be hurt and that I still cared for him. I asked him again to please come to our son's birthday; he agreed and said he would be there. He told me he won't be moving to peterborough and wants to stay here with me to work things out. I told him I needed to take some time to think about it, and he replied, "take your time"..

I left that night and stayed at a friends house which he seemed to be okay with. I was willing to give it another shot... see how things went. But the next day, I found out that he had borrowed $600 from his friend; and I have no idea why or where that money is. MORE SECRETS. I saw the email he sent his friend where he says, "I need to borrow $600 to pay for some bills. I have a few interviews lined up but I don't know when I'll be able to pay you back" ..... he doesn't pay any bills right now... I DO.. and he doesn't have any interviews that I know of. TO be sure, I checked his phone logs and emails... and he hasn't sent out 1 resume... or had 1 incoming or outgoing call. There's no way. AND if he was going to use that money for bills.... we only have about $200 worth of unpaid bills right now (which I'm paying on Friday when I get paid).. we don't need $600.. and he hasn't told me about it.

On top of that.... last night, I left to go get some milk for my son (we were out) and ad to pull over on the side of the road, I was crying and hysterical!! The truth is.... i don't WANT to fix my relationship. I just want out... but I feel stuck and trapped by him. I feel like if I were to leave he would just break down. He knows how to pull at my heart to get his way.

I discussed all this with my therapist today, actually, and he made me realize that by me allowing him to stay in the house and me sleeping in the same bed as him... I'm not showing him that I really mean what I say. I'm talking, but I'm not walking. And he's right. He's so right.
So now... I have to walk. I'm afraid. I'm mostly scared of H's reaction.. he will cry and use words to pull at my heart strings..
I always tell myself to be strong... and I try, but most of the time... he'll talk me into staying and I don't even realize it until i leave the conversation and reflect on it!

I feel tricked!!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

gyspy14 said:


> For anyone following this... here is an update:
> 
> My husband and I sat down Tuesday night, after he told me he would be moving away with his whole, "I don't matter anymore" *HOOK*speech.
> 
> ...


Its because he is straight up manipulating you. Remember this *always*.... His emotional fitness doesn't belong to you. It doesn't belong on your shoulders. It belongs on his shoulders. Leave it there. Detach from his "whoa is me" drama. He is totally self creating that and using words to "hook" you as you see above. This guy is toxic. Read Emotional Blackmail. Great resource for these types of situations.


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## BassGuy919 (Mar 15, 2016)

I really don't know how to respond to this because I identify with your husband. 99.9% of the time my actions were just reactions to issues in my life. I wasn't trying to manipulate my wife to do anything, at least not consciously. When she told me she wanted to leave, however, I do actually think I tried to use guilt or shame or even pity to get her to stay. I am embarrassed to say it now. However, I am now consciously trying *not* to use my emotions or hers as weapons.

I have suffered from depression and anxiety most of my adult life. My wife says she too is exhausted by constantly having to support me emotionally. When she told me this I was crushed. I don't want to make her unhappy and I felt ashamed that I was too caught up in my own head to be there for her or even notice the toll it was having on her.

I don't want my wife to stay with me out of pity or guilt. I want her to stay because she wants to. So the only person whom I can change is myself. I am trying to be better and healthier. I am exercising, and I am now finally on anti-depression medication. I am tired of being sad and/or worried. I want to give my wife what she deserves but I also want her to be there for me too. I just don't want to lean on her so much anymore.

I don't know your husband, and I am sorry that you feel tricked or manipulated, I really don't know if he is doing that consciously or he is just as desperate as I was and his throwing emotional hail marys.

I just wanted to share something with you from a depressed husband's view. I don't think your husband and I are using the same playbook, though. I am trying to better myself and in turn win my wife back.

I hope your husband can get his act together. Some of the things you said about yourself and what you said to him are painfully close to what I have heard from my wife. But I want to believe that I am NOT like your husband. I admit I have a problem and I want to and am receiving help to get better.

I am so sorry, a marriage break up is always painful, but I hope that both you and he can be happy someday. Again I don't know what to tell you about staying or leaving. If he is in denial about his condition, then I really don't know what to think.

Sorry if I am not being much help, I just felt like I had to say something about your situation. I may delete this post later. If you want to ask me direct questions to better understand the mind of a man with depression and anxiety feel free to private message me. I am not sure how much help I will be but just wanted to put that out there. I don't think your husband and I are quite coming from exactly the same place, though. I DO want help and don't want to try to trick my wife to stay with me, because that's a sad way to keep someone around. I'd rather try to become the person she fell in love with again or maybe even better.

Best of luck to you both.

RDLR


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

rubendlr said:


> I really don't know how to respond to this because I identify with your husband. 99.9% of the time my actions were just reactions to issues in my life. I wasn't trying to manipulate my wife to do anything, at least not consciously. When she told me she wanted to leave, however, I do actually think I was trying to use guilt or shame or even pity to get her to stay. I am embarrassed to say it now. However, I am now consciously trying not to use my emotions or hers as weapons.
> 
> I have suffered from depression and anxiety most of my adult life. My wife says she too is exhausted by constantly having to support me emotionally. When she told me this I was crushed. I don't want to make her unhappy and I felt ashamed that I was too caught up in my own head to be there for her or even notice the toll it was having on her.
> 
> ...


I am so glad you shared this as proof that when someone chooses to heal, those toxic behaviors can be eradicated. It starts with no longer accepting them as ok in ourselves or others. Great job.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

You are doing a good thing by trying to help him in this situation. He is in a really low place right now and may be trying to either guilt trip you or is just depressed and needs help. His behavior does set off a red flag though...sorry if I am crossing a line but has he mentioned suicide?


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

I have clinical depression and PTSD and ADHD and I am recovering alcoholic to boot. Mental health issues are difficult to deal with. This man is using manipulation and selfish behavior as a means of controlling you. As he refuses counseling or medication, I suggest you seriously consider leaving him. There are tools he can use and he refuses to use them. 

Mental health does not give one an excuse to treat other people poorly.


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

DanielleBennett said:


> His behavior does set off a red flag though...sorry if I am crossing a line but has he mentioned suicide?


At this point, no, he has not mentioned suicide, or hurting himself. 2 years ago he made a comment, and we've addressed it thoroughly. I've also spoken with my therapist about the possibility of him mentioning those things. I would be surprised if he did though..


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

Thank you so much for all your responses. It's heart warming to not feel so alone. I have seen my therapist since this post and we've gone over, thoroughly, actions to take if things were to get serious (suicide, self harm ect)... but I don't expect it to.

I ended up asking him, nicely, to leave for the night on Friday. I asked for some alone time with the kids so I can focus on them and not be distracted by his concerns. I felt like I hadn't been able to have fun with them in so long. It ended up being a great night with them! I enjoyed it very much.

He came home around 9pm... and voiced his concern about me asking him to leave for the night. I was feeling empowered by my night with the kids, so I was happy with how I stood my ground. I was able to explain a lot of where I was coming from and he seemed to understand; and he didn't cry either (which was very helpful!)

He and I both agreed to work at it until September. He agreed to take a job offer in August, and to seek out therapy and to continue his medications. I explained that by September, I'll know for sure if this is all fancy talk, or if he's actually going to take the steps. He agreed that things in our relationship needed to change, and he agreed that if things aren't better, or at least on their way by September, that we would make arrangements to split.

Since this conversation, he and I have been interacting much nicer with each other. There is still no physical stuff, no romance or anything like that... and I HAVE noticed that there has been NO steps to start therapy OR calls to the job offer... but that's his choice. I've made myself clear, and he knows I'm serious. So, at this point, I'm still planning to move in September, and until he shows me some real change, that'll be my plan.

I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing or not... some of my friends have expressed concern that I'm just letting him "win" .. but I'm very serious about September.. and if he decides to not take me seriously, that's his choice. 

Thoughts?..


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I like the September idea. I did much the same. I had three time lines...

1. In Therapy by 1st of the year 2014 or we were separating
2. If he still refused after separation, he would be choosing to risk divorce with me
3. About middle of the year when conflict was still too intense and too frequent... I said we had until the end of 2014 to get this thing figured out or I was pulling the plug on it permanently. 

That was highly effective.

Our last big argument was May of last year  That's the longest stretch we have ever gone without a major blow up. They used to be weekly and last for days.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two things:
You should insist on watching him take his meds. Every day. If he doesn't like it, he can leave. Or you will, and take the kids.

You should insist on going to his IC with him once a month; he IS going weekly, right? This is YOUR life, too, so you need to be able to verify that he IS actually doing something in therapy to get better. And you need to be able to tell his IC the other half of what's really going on, so he can get the right therapy.


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## Missmousedancemom (Mar 23, 2016)

I feel your pain
I'm scared to tell my husband I'm leaving out of Fear that 
1. He might end his life. I'm his whole world 
2. He told me that if I left him he would kill me, our daughter and himself
3. After a argument between me and my 10 year old daughter he wished he had a shot gun
** never in 20 years has he physically hurt me, or shown any anger**
I feel that I'm being held emotional hostage. 

We can and will do this!!!!
Hugs


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Missmousedancemom said:


> I feel your pain
> I'm scared to tell my husband I'm leaving out of Fear that
> 1. He might end his life. I'm his whole world
> 2. He told me that if I left him he would kill me, our daughter and himself
> ...


Good Lord. When are you leaving? Whats your plan? 

Probably a good idea to start a thread on this.


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

Missmousedancemom said:


> I feel your pain
> I'm scared to tell my husband I'm leaving out of Fear that
> 1. He might end his life. I'm his whole world
> 2. He told me that if I left him he would kill me, our daughter and himself
> ...


I agree that you need to make an escape plan!! HUGS!!!! xo


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## gyspy14 (Feb 16, 2016)

turnera said:


> You should insist on going to his IC with him once a month; he IS going weekly, right? This is YOUR life, too, so you need to be able to verify that he IS actually doing something in therapy to get better. And you need to be able to tell his IC the other half of what's really going on, so he can get the right therapy.


Actually, at this point, he's not going at all. Last Friday, he told me he would make an appointment and start going... that has yet to be done. I don't know if I should keep pushing him at this stage... or if I should just ride it out and make plans to leave in September.

He's lip serviced me like this many times before... told me he'll do it, than doesn't. Or he'll make one appointment, go once, than stop. I've been with him once, than he went one more time after that and stopped going. He tells me, "it's just not for me" or "I don't feel like they do anything for me" We've tried 3 different therapists... none he's liked.

I had hoped that this past talk would be different, and here I am again... sigh. Oh well, I told him he has till September to impress me... if nothing happens by than, I'm out. I'm keeping my eye on the apartments available and I"m going to start putting some money away.

I can already tell that nothing is going to change. He said he'd start therapy, he hasn't.
He said he'd call the lead for the new job he had offered to him, he hasn't.

He's gone out of "panic" mode (because I'm staying for a bit longer) and is getting comfortable again... this is just what he does. every. single. time.

When will I learn?.... I should have left when my gut told me to. Sigh.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

gyspy14 said:


> Actually, at this point, he's not going at all. Last Friday, he told me he would make an appointment and start going... that has yet to be done. I don't know if I should keep pushing him at this stage... or if I should just ride it out and make plans to leave in September.
> 
> He's lip serviced me like this many times before... told me he'll do it, than doesn't. Or he'll make one appointment, go once, than stop. I've been with him once, than he went one more time after that and stopped going. He tells me, "it's just not for me" or "I don't feel like they do anything for me" We've tried 3 different therapists... none he's liked.
> 
> ...


Then shorten the time frame....

"Since you have chosen to relax in your efforts to right this ship, I'm choosing to move up my move out date to xyz" and I would shorten the hell out of it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

gyspy14 said:


> Actually, at this point, he's not going at all. Last Friday, he told me he would make an appointment and start going... that has yet to be done.


Then just walk up to him right now and say if you don't have an appointment by Friday afternoon, I'm moving out this weekend. Or whatever date you can leave by.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

gyspy14 said:


> Actually, at this point, he's not going at all. Last Friday, he told me he would make an appointment and start going... that has yet to be done. I don't know if I should keep pushing him at this stage... or if I should just ride it out and make plans to leave in September.
> 
> He's lip serviced me like this many times before... told me he'll do it, than doesn't. Or he'll make one appointment, go once, than stop. I've been with him once, than he went one more time after that and stopped going. He tells me, "it's just not for me" or "I don't feel like they do anything for me" We've tried 3 different therapists... none he's liked.
> 
> ...


He manipulated you to get you to agree to stay longer. He had no intention of following through. You are not held to a promise made under those circumstances. He lied. He knows exactly what he is doing. By sticking around, you are enabling him.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

I agree with Cynthia OP. You are enabling him by sticking around longer. He thinks that by the time September rolls around if you follow through and try to leave he would go into panic mode and manipulate you again. I wouldn’t do this! Don’t mention anything, sit back and do the 180 and see if he tries, and if he still hasn’t by the time you got your ducks in a row then bail out. Don’t wait until September, you will just be miserable and he won’t change.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> He manipulated you to get you to agree to stay longer. He had no intention of following through. You are not held to a promise made under those circumstances. He lied. He knows exactly what he is doing. By sticking around, you are enabling him.


Yep, this exactly! You know he isn't going to do what he has said he will, so step up your prep for getting out and do it as soon as you have those ducks in a row. 

Now, you know he will pull the same crap again when you tell him you're done, so be prepared for that. You CANNOT allow him to suck you in with feeling sorry for him. Also, remember...whatever happens to him is HIS doing, it is in no way YOUR fault! He is a grown man in control of his own life, and however he chooses to handle it (or not!) is up to him. He sounds like a petulant man-child. You KNOW that you no longer want to work on it anyway, so shortening your timeline does you both a favor.


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