# Communicating about feelings with men



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

So I have a question. I don't know how much is too much or too little to talk about feelings with my H. We've never much talked about feelings.

As mentioned in some of my recent posts, I'm now finishing up week 2 of something...not sure what...some type of core change...but my feelings on the whole R thing have changed. 

My H has been great the past two weeks. No issues, no drama which must have set a record for at least the past year. I feel that I have now accepted the A. Still don't understand it, still hate it, but I accept that it is real and it happened and there's nothing anyone can do to change it from having happened. And while it hurts, I can think about it and even talk a tiny bit about it without tearing up and feeling nauseous. My triggers are down probably 80% - and I am normally a heavy trigger-er (new word!) for things and places touched by OW and her family. I even made a comment yesterday while we were bbq'ing together that the tongs H was using were OWH's. He said "they are just tongs" and I said "yep, that's what they are". And I didn't freak out or throw them over the fence! 

I no longer feel panic-y and my physical symptoms and "tics" I've had for the past year are suddenly gone. I'm not anxious, I'm not angry. I'm sleeping decently. I feel almost normal pre-A, but detached. I haven't been "snooping/checking". I've not worried about other women flirting with him. These are all good things.

On the bad side, I feel no passion. I don't look forward to seeing him like I have been. I don't run into his arms. I'm not saying "I love you". I'm not wearing my wedding band. I'm not thrilled with any bit of time I get to spend with him. I don't feel negatively towards any of these things...I'm just not excited by them anymore either. Sex is still awesome, but it's not any emotional connection. I enjoy sex, and I've been enjoying exerting some control over when and how and just hearing him say DAMN because he is enjoying it so much he can't do anything else but say DAMN. <wink> I'm feeling more of a power trip and pride thing at my sex skills than I am feeling pleasure from loving him.

I don't see the way I'm feeling captured in any of the links provided here or the books I have. It's been two weeks, so I'm thinking this isn't one of the roller coaster loops I've been on for the past year. I feel more calm than ever. Like I don't care. But again, things have been good. I like my H. He's cool to hang out with. He's funny and attractive and above all, the father to my kids.

So I guess my questions to you good people include:
-- Should I tell my H how I am currently feeling? We haven't talked about feelings since I told him I wanted D and had complete meltdown 2 weeks ago (all of which led to my current state of mind).
--Is this normally part of the process? And if so, what category does it fall in?
--What are the chances for my marriage to be a success based on the assumption that my feelings will stay as they are now?

Any other thoughts?


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I think it's a normal part of the process, and I think it's okay.

I don't think I would share this with him, though. Too much opportunity for it to be completely misunderstood. Right now you have the power. Keep it.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> So I guess my questions to you good people include:
> -- Should I tell my H how I am currently feeling? We haven't talked about feelings since I told him I wanted D and had complete meltdown 2 weeks ago (all of which led to my current state of mind).
> --Is this normally part of the process? And if so, what category does it fall in?
> --What are the chances for my marriage to be a success based on the assumption that my feelings will stay as they are now?
> ...


addressing each question-

1) well if you've been running a 180 (method of detaching) then you shouldn't be discussing the relationship. I suppose in some way you are waiting to see if he comes to you. 
2) It is "normal" in the sense that people run this 180 because they need to do it to recapture their sense of self and what they actually want and not depend on their spouse for their needs and realize that they will be just fine if they do get divorced. I think you chose to run the 180 because you weren't getting enough remorse from him, you were getting some and at differing times, but not completely what you needed so you chose to do this to detach and reassess.
3) I think if it continues like it has been where he doesn't go full force into helping you heal you will end up divorced. I know you told him that you are going to get a D, but have you done anything about like get the paperwork started? It may be the last chance/wake up call he gets to straighten himself out.


to add I think the sex is probably sending him very mixed messages. He may believe that everything is fine and dandy when it clearly isn't


----------



## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Are you currently in IC? have you seen a psychiatrist? A few of the things you describe are symptoms of clinical depression and may require meds to help you be at baseline.

As far as discussing feelings with your H, I always lean toward being open and honest with how I'm feeling, and I expect my partner to be the same way. 

Are you guys attending MC? A moderated environment is sometimes the best place to talk about the things you describe. I'm assuming you want an open and honest relationship moving forward, the best way to get that, is by simply doing it yourself. Dont hold back any of it, if he cant deal with the changes, have him attend IC.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Paladin I think you should read Standing's story first, she has tried all of that


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/47967-dday-1-anniversary-approaches.html


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

And to add to what AR said- I dont think he truly has remorse. If he did, when you said" those are OW's tongs"-he would have gotten rid of them right there and then-for you. It says to me that he doesnt understand how you feel, nor does he care. He should want to rid you of as many triggers as possible. He cant wipe out the part of your brain that reminds you of his A but he can throw away a pair of tongs...


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

1) _I suppose in some way you are waiting to see if he comes to you. _ I guess. Normally, I'm the first to grab his hand, hug, text during the day, etc. I'm doing none of that, and he is initiating every contact now. I don't push him away, but I also don't respond enthusiastically. I've avoided replying ILY's to his ILY's except for once when he waited for it expectantly and thus I said it dutifully. It felt sorta foreign.

2)_ realize that they will be just fine if they do get divorced._ I have realized this. I've thought through what it would/could be like and can even feel a little excitement about the prospect.

3) _I think if it continues like it has been where he doesn't go full force into helping you heal you will end up divorced. _ What do I need him to do at this point? I feel confused somehow, even though I've read and read and read all the advice out here. _I know you told him that you are going to get a D, but have you done anything about like get the paperwork started? It may be the last chance/wake up call he gets to straighten himself out._ I haven't done anything with the paperwork. I have it downloaded and ready to fill out, but haven't done anything with it.

_to add I think the sex is probably sending him very mixed messages. He may believe that everything is fine and dandy when it clearly isn't_ Yes, this. That's why I asked if I should tell him how I'm feeling. I think he's super happy right now. He's getting zero drama from me, zero mentions of the A, and great sex to boot! What's not to love?

PS: My teen son is doing really good also these two weeks. Has not gotten into one tiny bit of trouble - of course with a smashed cell phone and no facebook and no interaction outside of his family...he doesn't have much of a choice. But he could always forcefully leave and he hasn't done that. He's been respectful and helpful too around the house.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> 2)_ realize that they will be just fine if they do get divorced._ I have realized this. I've thought through what it would/could be like and can even feel a little excitement about the prospect.


then what are you waiting for?

to me this says that you are indeed holding out hope 



StandingInQuicksand said:


> What do I need him to do at this point? I feel confused somehow, even though I've read and read and read all the advice out here.



you want someone who won't merely go NC and be transparent- you want someone who will go that distance to help you regain trust. You got SO MUCH trickle truth you will have such a hard time rebuilding that trust. Perhaps he isn't capable? But you won't know unless he does anything and everything that you need to heal and trust again. Canttrustu gave a perfect example, my wife and I got rid of a sofa they had sex on. He can't even think to get rid of a 15 buck pair of BBQ tongs?!!



StandingInQuicksand said:


> I haven't done anything with the paperwork. I have it downloaded and ready to fill out, but haven't done anything with it.


I know it sounds crazy but if you are indeed holding out hope or truly want your marriage to work, you must through with your pledge to file. If you don't you've just made your threat of D an empty threat and that is very dangerous thing to do, no consequence to his actions at all.
And if you aren't holding out hope, then stop wasting your llife and file so you can go and be free to find someone worthy of your loyalty, love and what you have to offer. Even if you don't want to find love again, I think that being alone>being miserable with someone who doesn't make you happy (you can't keep up the 180 forever after all)



StandingInQuicksand said:


> Yes, this. That's why I asked if I should tell him how I'm feeling. I think he's super happy right now. He's getting zero drama from me, zero mentions of the A, and great sex to boot! What's not to love?


also consider that a side effect of you demonstrating that you can be fine without him will sometimes cause the spouse to take notice of you and do things to win you back. The fact that he is now eliciting ILY's and hand holding is showing that is he worried and on some level (subconsciously likely) recognizes that you could be gone soon.

plus he will figure it out as soon as he gets paperwork



StandingInQuicksand said:


> PS: My teen son is doing really good also these two weeks. Has not gotten into one tiny bit of trouble - of course with a smashed cell phone and no facebook and no interaction outside of his family...he doesn't have much of a choice. But he could always forcefully leave and he hasn't done that. He's been respectful and helpful too around the house.


glad to hear it- see how consequences work?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Hell my H threw away anything/everything that had his company logo on it(his EA was with a coworker-he has since left the company to get NC). He got rid of a coffee mug b/c SHE gave it to him at christmas, He got rid of everything. And I really believe that if I said our CAR reminded me of OW- it would be gone by sunset. He doesnt want me to trigger. WHATEVER he can do to lessen those he does ASAP. He changed his hair cut, regrew his 5'0clock shadow just to be different from when he was with HER. B/c I like the shadow-OW hated it. So during A-he kept it off. NOW as a statement to me-he keeps it. Its so small but it matters.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

on post 3 of the newbie link there's a quote by chapparal of what remorse spouse should do

I would fill in your D paperwork, hand a copy to him along with a printout of that post and tell him the clock is ticking and it's up to him now


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Hell my H threw away anything/everything that had his company logo on it(his EA was with a coworker-he has since left the company to get NC). He got rid of a coffee mug b/c SHE gave it to him at christmas, He got rid of everything. And I really believe that if I said our CAR reminded me of OW- it would be gone by sunset. He doesnt want me to trigger. WHATEVER he can do to lessen those he does ASAP. He changed his hair cut, regrew his 5'0clock shadow just to be different from when he was with HER. B/c I like the shadow-OW hated it. So during A-he kept it off. NOW as a statement to me-he keeps it. Its so small but it matters.



He has not done any of this. Is it possible that he is just really dense about these triggers? That he doesn't trigger that way so doesn't even see them or sense them? 

From the get go, I had to tell him numerous times to get rid of all the photos. So many family vacations, weekend trips, festivals, parties...all the memories had to be scrapped as there was always one member or another of that horrid family in each shot. They were all replicated via "the cloud" through all of our devices and pc's and something was always popping up in a screensaver or something. It took several attempts to get them all permanently deleted...then I ran some archive search on our server and found them all again burried in some archive of an archive that he probably doesn't even know exists...but yep, it's all still there! Lucky me! 

For another example, he has some major items from the OW and/or the OWH that are visible to him (and me) daily that would be expensive and wasteful to replace...he has not attempted to replace. Shoot, you mentioned a car...my car was purchased during the A and the OW also purchased a car within a week or two of us. My H actually had us both shopping for the same car. Thank goodness I HATED it on sight or I may have ended up with the same friggin car as her. It would truly have been wrapped around a pole by now. For all I know, my current car had her opinion included in its selection. Even it was not my first choice, but H convinced me on it. I sorta hate it now as a result of all of this and if I get D, it will be the first thing I sell. I will get me a hot little something!!!

Anyway, he seems bewildered and befuddled by the triggers. But as mentioned, I'm kinda over them at least right now. I see something, I think of the A, and I roll my eyes. No pain, no panic, no catching my breath, no tears welling up. Maybe I'm over them for real.


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh and I won't let him shave his body hair (back, chest, etc). None of it at all. He has been accomodating that although he says he feels gross and uncomfortable. But he went no hair anywhere for her after 20 years of monkey man for me...and I told him the next time he shaved anything, I would think he was with her or someone else.


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> on post 3 of the newbie link there's a quote by chapparal of what remorse spouse should do
> 
> I would fill in your D paperwork, hand a copy to him along with a printout of that post and tell him the clock is ticking and it's up to him now



That (Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.) seems to apply more to the time period right after DDays.

I'm past most of that crazy emotional stuff, especially since whatever clicked/broke/shut off in me two weeks ago.

I just can't think of what I want or need him to do. Well one is to have a plan to get out of that freaking organization. The other is not to lie to me ever again. The third is to severely cut back and control drinking. I know he will fail at all 3. So.....????

I think I'm just headed to D but not in any hurry. Is that weird?

The other thought I had. Maybe I've let go of my marriage to him...a man who cheated on me in one of the most horrible ways possible. He's an ass, I don't want to be married to him.

So maybe I have to fall in love with this new him? And maybe I will and maybe I won't?


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

_to me this says that you are indeed holding out hope _ maybe so - but shouldn't I hold out hope to keep my family together?

_He can't even think to get rid of a 15 buck pair of BBQ tongs?!!_ I don't think it's that. I just think he doesn't attach feelings and memories to an object or place like I do. Or maybe you are right and he just doesn't give a crap. I don't know.

_If you don't you've just made your threat of D an empty threat and that is very dangerous thing to do, no consequence to his actions at all._ Agree with this. That's why I was asking if I should tell him how I feel. I think I will just go ahead and do that. Let him know that although these 2 weeks have been good, I still can't trust him. I don't see us lasting til death do us part. He is going to lie to me again about something. He may cheat again. And I don't want to risk any of that. So D is still on the table and maybe I put an end date to how long I'm going to marinate on it? A month from now if things are the same, I file?


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

You know, he's never not once begged me to stay with him?

Everytime I asked him to leave, he left. When I asked him to come back, he came back. 

I told him I wanted our marriage, he said "me too".

He never got to that point that I hear in many of the stories on here of practically groveling for the faithful spouse to give him a second chance. 

See I screwed this whole thing up from the very beginning.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry I can't remember if your H had an EA/PA? Sometimes I think that if it was just an EA that alot of men do not thing it is that bad..so maybe for your spouse he thinks that big deal it was nothing so why bother talking about it..

Maybe to him he senses that you are merrily going along and everything is just great and you are over what happened...

Alot of guys are not that comfortable talking about really deep issues so as long as you seem okay with everything than he is happy with that.

I don't know just my 2 cents.


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

EA and PA
with his best friend's wife
close family circle, kids all BFFs, family vacations together, etc
i got an std.
nutshell.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

OMG..honestly EA and PA's combined are the worst ones to recover from or so I read. Especially with someone that you knew as well...

I don't know if it was me if I could stay married to him...

So sorry that you are going thru this.


----------



## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> You know, he's never not once begged me to stay with him?
> 
> Everytime I asked him to leave, he left. When I asked him to come back, he came back.
> 
> ...



Have you told him EXACTLY what you need from him?

Recently, I gave my H a list of everything I needed from him to aid in my healing. Things like, a heartfelt letter of apology and a symbol of his recommitment to the marriage. Also, a letter of apology to our daughters (who are beyond furious with him still) and some required reading,etc. There's more on my list but hopefully you get the idea. I also gave him a deadline for the list. If it's not completed, or he can't complete it, then he needs to move out.

Then, I explained to him that my list was due to the fact that if he couldn't put the time into doing the heavy lifting, I could not put the time into working towards forgiveness and controlling my anger. He's been pretty good, remorseful but there were a few areas in which I thought he was lazy and still a bit self-absorbed. He's been good at taking but not so good at giving and I'd come to the end of my rope. I told him last week that I was considering divorce and he started to cry and said he didn't want to lose me and definitely did not want a divorce. Like I said, he had been showing remorse but like you, I felt the grand gesture or whatever you want to call it was missing and my resentment was growing. I even started to feel the detachment you wrote of...

I'm not sure if the list will change my feelings but it's a start. I don't want a divorce but truth be told, I don't want to be married to a man that cheated on me either.

I think that as the months go by, the BS fully processes what happened... and that's why some divorce months later. It takes a while for the mind to distinguish between who we thought our WS were and who they truly are...That's not easy to accept.

Good luck with your decision. I know how agonizing it is...


----------



## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

I've given him a couple lists over the past year, and asked for him to give me lists. He does some items, not others. I've done things like leave one of the His Needs, Her Needs quizzes out for him...he just shuffles them to the side, never does them. But I already know and have made all the improvements in my half of this marriage. I know his love languages (did that quiz with home live while he was trapped in a long car ride with me lol). And based on that and the things he told me the AP did that I didn't do enough...make the His Needs stuff evident and I've focused on ensuring those needs are all more than met. Just not seeing any of this level of effort from him....and HES the one who cheated. I just have it all backwards somehow. 

I have boiled my needs down to 3 core items, those I mentioned. I know he can't or won't do them. He jus doesn't think I will ever take action. But I'm no doormat and he know this...but he thinks the kids will keep me here. And they are. Plus we genuinely have a good friendship despite it all. I'm really not in hell right now or anything. I'm not miserable, I'm just here. As you said, I don't want to be married to a cheater, and certainly not one that still lies, drinks too much, and spends all his time volunteering for an org I hate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> I've given him a couple lists over the past year, and asked for him to give me lists. He does some items, not others. I've done things like leave one of the His Needs, Her Needs quizzes out for him...he just shuffles them to the side, never does them. But I already know and have made all the improvements in my half of this marriage. I know his love languages (did that quiz with home live while he was trapped in a long car ride with me lol). And based on that and the things he told me the AP did that I didn't do enough...make the His Needs stuff evident and I've focused on ensuring those needs are all more than met. Just not seeing any of this level of effort from him....and HES the one who cheated. I just have it all backwards somehow.
> 
> I have boiled my needs down to 3 core items, those I mentioned. I know he can't or won't do them. He jus doesn't think I will ever take action. But I'm no doormat and he know this...but he thinks the kids will keep me here. And they are. Plus we genuinely have a good friendship despite it all. I'm really not in hell right now or anything. I'm not miserable, I'm just here. As you said, I don't want to be married to a cheater, and certainly not one that still lies, drinks too much, and spends all his time volunteering for an org I hate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We sat down and did the "His Needs Her Needs" quiz together and discussed it. But about a month after D-day, we made it a priority to meet each night and do some work towards improving the marriage. Would your H be willing to do this? Although, admittedly my H did read His Needs, Her Needs during his affair and realized that he had not been the perfect H. Yah, think?! 

Anyway, if you need him to step up the effort, you need to make it a requirement. I wrote my H a letter and told him that while things are going better for him -- he's certainly getting all his needs met and we are getting along better, having lots of sex, talking more, I needed him to do more of the heavy lifting. It was something that I felt was missing so I knew that if it didn't happen, I would eventually leave him. Not because I wanted to but because I don't want to spend my life feeling angry and resentful.

It sounds like your H has never been required to do much. I recall you even posting that you wondered if it was his personality or something along those lines so I think you've given too much and he hasn't really been required to show his commitment. I can understand why you think it's time for him to show you that's he's scared of losing you. You seem like an intelligent caring woman and he needs to see what he has to lose.

Oh, and I'm sure it doesn't help that OW was a complete skank and a b!tch. Dealing with one of those myself and I think that compounds the anger. Like instead of dealing with our marriage problems, you decided that affairing down with some classless loser was going to bring you happiness?! Thankfully, my H says now it's all pretty mortifying and he can't even understand what he was thinking because it was so not worth the pain and everything he's lost. You need to hear that from your H.


----------



## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Oops, double post.


----------



## Rasbuten66 (Jun 29, 2012)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> So I have a question. I don't know how much is too much or too little to talk about feelings with my H. We've never much talked about feelings.
> 
> As mentioned in some of my recent posts, I'm now finishing up week 2 of something...not sure what...some type of core change...but my feelings on the whole R thing have changed.
> 
> ...


Wow, this could have been written by me...now that we have sold our marital home and each bought a new place, living about 40 min from one another I hear from him more. We actually went on a date Saturday, he had asked me the weekend before to go to a concert with him. I was nervous, we had a decent time together and then afterwards before he left we talked for about an hour and both said a lot and cried a lot. I don't know what the future will hold or if this was just the closure we both needed. I think it took selling and moving out for him to see the seriousness. Sometimes its an extreme action that finally gets thru to them. 

Robin


----------

