# How do I make sure she stays the same?



## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EDIT Thread title : 

How do we make sure that she doesn't lose her values?




I'm 37 and my girlfriend is 22. She's from the Philippines, although she speaks english fine, very well in fact. Anyway I have a friend who was married to a filipina until a couple of years ago, as well as a cousin who has a filipino girlfriend also, and is still with her. Everyone involved lives in the UK. 

My cousin and my girlfriend recently had a conversation, after which he told me to be very careful about culture. When I asked him what he was talking about he referred to our friend and his failed marriage. He told me that it's not uncommon for guys like us to lose our spouses / girlfriends from south east Asia and other parts of the world due to negative cultural influences, i.e. the media, and also other women, unless they're careful. 

The problem, he says, is that the good values which these women are raised with tend to become eroded over the years unless one is careful, and that I should work with her to minimize that. 

I'm certainly in agreement with him that values in the UK are pretty much down the drain to say the least, and the divorce rate / Jeremy Kyle way of life speaks for itself, but what can my girlfriend and I do to prevent her from being influenced too much by negative things over here? 



Here's a general list of qualities that she has, which I don't want her to lose...

She's cooperative, easy to work with, runs things by me / doesn't do things behind my back or keep me in the dark, is fine with me making decisions, she's respectful, easy to please / obliging / kind, appreciative, and likes to please. 

She holds herself accountable for her actions and takes responsibility, she has maturity, and doesn't make excuses. 

She's simple i.e. not complicated, doesn't complicate her life with banalities, she's humble and modest, and doesn't take herself too seriously. 

She doesn't have a sense of entitlement, she's not demanding of attention and special treatment, nor high maintenance, nor narcissistic. 

She's civilized, polite, has self respect, and conducts herself with class. 

She's truly strong and independent, which I really admire, i.e. she has a very good work ethic, she's a hard worker, has self discipline, inner strength and coping skills, has her own identity rather than identifying with negative role models on tv, thinks for herself, and can look after herself. 

She's likeable and wholesome and very friendly. 

She's feminine, homely, and likes, admires and respects men. 

She's very bright, and has not led a sheltered life. 

And she's totally loyal, and honest. 



And because those are the things that I like so much about her (which I very much appreciate, and I tell her this often), I really don't want her to lose any of that, but I fear that if we're not careful, that could happen, and I could end up like my friend who wasn't careful. 

Although she's intelligent and can think for herself, I worry that over a period of time she will be negatively influenced. Of course, being 22 years old, she will change over the years, so to clarify, I'm not saying that I don't want her to change, what I'm saying is that I do not want her negatively influenced while she does so. What I don't want her to lose, and what she too doesn't want to lose, is her values. She's very emphatic about that. In fact it was she who brought up the subject. 

If she were to be negatively influenced, I wouldn't try to stop that from playing out, however of course I'd be sad and disappointed, but I'd hope and trust that she finds her own way of evolving without compromising her values. But the problem is that it's risky which is why I'd rather those influences were avoided in the first place, and she totally gets that. 

What she likes about me, she says, is that I'm caring, helpful, understanding and accepting of her. I looked after her aunt briefly, I recommended evening classes for her (she wants to be a teacher), she has a mild medical condition that I help her with, and I took some time off work to help her find a job. So I'm prepared to do a lot for her, and I feel that she is an asset to me and she feels likewise. 

To give some background, I started dating when I was 17, and in the 15 years or so of dating in the UK (and a bit in the US) I've probably dated around 30 or so women and yet I've never met anyone who even comes close to her in terms of values and attributes. Whereas when I was in south east Asia during the last few years it was like night and day by comparison. Cultural values and upbringing really do make all the difference. 

As with most things, there are pros and cons. Western culture has its pros but the cons outweigh them, which is a shame, because I like the pros. My girlfriend doesn't mind us living in the Philippines but I'm not sure, at least at the moment, because I would need to learn the language to be able to get by. 

So, back to my original question, how do we minimize the chances of her becoming "ruined" by UK / US culture? 

I've already mentioned this to her, and she is well aware that living in a western country can erode positive values instilled in other cultures and she has said that she is determined not to let it happen to her.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Keep her away from TV and anything and everything that could possibly brainwash her from being an independent thinker. You need a way to stunt her growth. A basement and a few chains could work.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> And because those are the things that I like so much about her, I really don't want her to lose any of that, but I fear that if I'm not careful, that could happen, and I could end up like my friend who wasn't careful.


Really? How as your friend not careful? 

You can't control someone else's mind. If you truly value her independence and her thinking for herself, you wouldn't want to try.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

IrishGirlVA said:


> Keep her away from TV and anything and everything that could possibly brainwash her from being an independent thinker. You need a way to stunt her growth. A basement and a few chains could work.


Why are you saying that? I've already said that she's very independent in every way, so what are you talking about? Why are you being facetious?


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

OP, people change.

I'm guessing you've brought her back to the UK. So she's in a new environment, away from her home and family; she's in her early 20s so still forming her opinions about life and herself; from your description she sounds fairly sheltered. Change is inevitable.

So I'm guessing by "stays the same" you mean "stays with me". And I say the best way to ensure that is by being the best boyfriend you can be.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

You say she is truly strong and independent with her own identity, but at the same time you want to control her. And much of what you have written indicates she is easy to control and that's why you like her. Sorry if I am reading this the wrong way but that is how it comes across.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> You say she is truly strong and independent with her own identity, but at the same time you want to control her. And much of what you have written indicates she is easy to control and that's why you like her. Sorry if I am reading this the wrong way but that is how it comes across.


I've already said that she's very independent. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that she's easy to control. Can you refer to anything I've said that would indicate that? I'd appreciate if you could because then I can have a look at it and edit my original post in order to make it accurate. I don't want to give an incorrect impression.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I'm 37 and my girlfriend is 22.


I quit reading here.

She's 22 which means without a doubt she WILL grow up and change. It's unavoidable.

The official age of adulthood is from 28-33. She's still technically maturing and you can't stop that.

She will change A LOT between now and 30 no matter what you do.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Every one changes throughout the years if by now you don't know this, then where have you been? Are you the same guy you were when you were 22? 

Stop letting your friend feed these ideas into your head. She is young she is gonna change, that doesn't mean it will be for the worst. Plus, I am sure due to your age difference you will be happy she matures over time.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

She's independent, intelligent, and mature yet you are concerned that "other women" will somehow influence her to become a totally different person, and abandon all of her values and personality at the drop of the hat. 

The fact is - you have no idea why your friends marriage really failed. I'm guessing it's a lot more complicated than how the rumor mill is making it sound that she "was ruined by Western values."

But, I'm sure all of these fears have nothing to do with the fact that you are dating a woman 15 years younger than you. I'm sure that's not causing any of the concern about her being "influenced" right? Was there a similiar age gap in your friend's marriage?


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I quit reading here.
> 
> She's 22 which means without a doubt she WILL grow up and change. It's unavoidable.
> 
> ...


Yes. This. My husband is 12 years older than me and we married when I was 22. For some years I was OK with him being in charge, making our decisions etc. (In consultation with me, but nevertheless always ending up with doing what he wanted.) After a while it became difficult for me to cope with this as I grew and matured.

Things got bad for quite some time, the marriage came under various pressures, and recently I nearly walked out. We are working things out and in some ways the tables have now turned as I insist he treats me like the adult I am and enforce it.

I don't think you have all that much to worry about from UK culture itself, but it does make it clear that we have personal freedom here and society does not make one an outcast if one leaves a relationship. 

You are already a fully mature adult and what I would suggest you do is make sure your girlfriend knows you appreciate her. Allow her to grow and develop, though.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I dont think you really can.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She was raised with a different view of love and marriage than Westerners. She has a loyalty to her BIRTH family which may complicate a marriage (make sure you have plenty of bedrooms to accommodate). 

You're 37 and she's 22 - using the standard 1/2 your age plus 7 you are dating someone who is too young for you. 

It sounds like you really dislike your own culture. If you want to ensure she doesn't change, may I suggest you move to the Philippines. Oh, wait, even she doesn't want to live there because she moved to the UK. Good luck with trying to keep her down on the farm when she actually lives in the city.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*How do I make sure she stays the same?*

Re-Write:

_How Can I Control My Girlfriend So She Does and Says Exactly What I Want and Doesn't Have a Mind of Her Own?

How Can I Make Her My Puppet?

How Can I Control Her?_

Sorry. Too easy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I quit reading here.
> 
> She's 22 which means without a doubt she WILL grow up and change. It's unavoidable.
> 
> ...


Also, the brain is not fully developed/formed until 25 years of age.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

toomuchtotell said:


> *You say she is truly strong and independent with her own identity, but at the same time you want to control her. *And much of what you have written indicates she is easy to control and that's why you like her. Sorry if I am reading this the wrong way but that is how it comes across.


:iagree:


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> it's not uncommon for guys like us to lose our spouses / girlfriends from south east Asia and other parts of the world due to negative cultural influences, i.e. the media, and also other women, *unless they're careful.*
> 
> The problem, he says, is that the values which these women are raised with tend to become eroded over the years *unless one is careful, and that I should do what I can to minimize that*, in order to avoid problems down the line, although it can certainly be avoided.
> 
> ...


^^THIS.^^ If you are "careful." Yeah, right. This is where you are under the false assumption that if you do X, Y, and Z, she will remain the way you like her, with the traits you find pleasing.

Life doesn't work that way. For anyone. You control the thoughts in your head and the words that come out of your mouth. Other than that, life is pretty much a crap shoot.

The young lady has traits you find desirable. She will inevitably change. You have no control over how she evolves.

No matter how "careful" you may be.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I met my exH at 22. By the time we divorced (I was 30) I was not at all the same person anymore.

Just saying.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You can't change a person for who they are, but you can influence them by your own actions.

There are no guarantees in life. If you love this woman, you have to have a little faith. 

My husband still treats me as if we just newly met. He's very attentive, loving, respectful, kind, and certainly goes out if his way to please me for the last 14 years. I do the same for him and our marriage has been very good.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Work on your self-esteem. You may find you don't need her, you want her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Agree with all the others...sorry dude, you can't stop her from changing.

She can't stop you from changing, either, which you most certainly will. You will get older, balder, probably wider. I'm sure she wishes that wouldn't happen either, but it will.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

IrishGirlVA said:


> Keep her away from TV and anything and everything that could possibly brainwash her from being an independent thinker. You need a way to stunt her growth. A basement and a few chains could work.


:rofl::lol:

But seriously...

It is not *your* place to even _attempt_ to prevent her from becoming influenced by the 'evils' in the world. In fact, if you TRY, she will see YOU as one of those 'evils' she needs to get away from! 

Vega


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I've already said that she's very independent. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that she's easy to control.


And that's the problem, she is *not* easy to control. And you have come here for advice on how to control her (i.e. how can I keep her the same?). 

Look, in all seriousness.... One of the things you seem to love about this girl is that she is an independent thinker and she is her own person. So with that trait she will make her own decisions about her life and who she is as a person. Regardless of age, people are always evolving.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

IrishGirl, your first post was seriously hilarious (and spot on!)


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

The title of your thread got me thinking. This is all about you. After all, you state, "How do *I* make sure she stays the same?". 

Yet you are defending your stance by saying your gf is an independent free-thinker. 

If that is the case, she's going to intuit in short order that you are intent on keeping her as she is. Why? Because she's going to figure out this is all about you.

And this IS all about you and what you want and what you need and how you want things to play out.

I'd love to hear her side of this story. What qualities are you bringing to the game that make you such a great catch? Seriously.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> The title of your thread got me thinking. This is all about you. After all, you state, "How do *I* make sure she stays the same?".


Seriously! Just the _title_ of your thread alone tells us that you're looking for a way to control her! After all, you know you can't control the _rest of the world_, so your only recourse is to control HER so she's not 'unduly influenced' by the rest of the world! 

Not only do you not have the *power* to control her, but you also don't have the *RIGHT*. 

Let's say she uses her 'independence' and makes a female friend that you don't like. This 'friend' cheats on her husband, can't keep a job, and you're afraid that your g/f will be 'influenced' by her. What are you going to do? 

Would you try *talking* to your g/f about her friend? Express your displeasure? Tell her you don't want her to be friends with her? Pout, sulk, put her or her friend DOWN or get angry if your g/f 'independently' decides to be friends with her anyway? That's ALL control. That's a GREAT way to LOSE a g/f! 

Vega


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, controlling much?? Sheesh. 

SIT. STAY.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I think I know what you COULD be saying. That you don't want her to go from the woman she is now to someone who has pick up negative traits of the culture like maybe materialism, selfishness, spurn family values, feminism, etc. Now the other thing I think you COULD be asking is how could treat her so that your treatment of her will not change her for the worse. I'm sure you won't be anger for her changing for the better. 

Nevertheless I don't you can influence that WITHOUT being controlling. You have to just let her mature on her own.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Lmao


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> *How do I make sure she stays the same?*
> 
> Re-Write:
> 
> ...


I would appreciate if you could refer to what I have said exactly which indicates that I want to control her etc, because if I have said anything indicative of that, I would like to know so I can change it, as I don't want to give an incorrect picture.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> You can't change a person for who they are, but you can influence them by your own actions.
> 
> There are no guarantees in life. If you love this woman, you have to have a little faith.
> 
> My husband still treats me as if we just newly met. He's very attentive, loving, respectful, kind, and certainly goes out if his way to please me for the last 14 years. I do the same for him and our marriage has been very good.


Yes I agree that you can influence a person. But I don't want to influence her, what I would like is for her good qualities to not be eroded by negative influences.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I would like is for her good qualities to not be eroded by negative influences.


Is she going to be your wife or your child?

This is what I say about my kids not my husband. :scratchhead:


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Some of what I've said has been misinterpreted so I've edited my original post for clarification.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Yes I agree that you can influence a person. But *I* don't want to influence her....


Yet you wrote:



> How do _*I*_ make sure she stays the same?


And...



> ...but what can *I* do to keep my girlfriend from being influenced too much by negative things over here?


And...



> And because those are the things that I like so much about her (which I very much appreciate, and I tell her this often), I really don't want her to lose any of that, but I fear that if *I'm* not careful, that could happen, and I could end up like my friend who wasn't careful.


And...



> how do _*I*_ minimize the chances of her becoming "ruined" by UK / US culture?


I'll repeat once again. It is not *YOUR* place to "make sure" your g/f stays the same. By the title of your thread, you're asking HOW YOU can "make sure" she doesn't change. You may as well have written, "How can I C-O-N-T-R-O-L her so she stays the same?" 

*YOU* CAN'T "make sure" she stays the same because *YOU* have no control over her. Period. If she stays the same, she will do so because *she* is acting under her own power to do so. If she changes, it will be because *she* is acting under her own power to do so.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Some of what I've said has been misinterpreted so I've edited my original post for clarification.


Unfortunately I still don't think you can without being controlling. It was kind of concerning to read you said she is "well behaved". That is definitely something you would say about a child at least here in the USA and I suspect the UK too. Don't you think so?


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

IrishGirlVA said:


> Keep her away from TV and anything and everything that could possibly brainwash her from being an independent thinker. You need a way to stunt her growth. A basement and a few chains could work.


Wow, this post deserves a banning.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Vega said:


> Let's say she uses her 'independence' and makes a female friend that you don't like. This 'friend' cheats on her husband, can't keep a job, and you're afraid that your g/f will be 'influenced' by her. What are you going to do?
> 
> Would you try *talking* to your g/f about her friend? Express your displeasure? Tell her you don't want her to be friends with her? Pout, sulk, put her or her friend DOWN or get angry if your g/f 'independently' decides to be friends with her anyway? That's ALL control. That's a GREAT way to LOSE a g/f!
> 
> Vega


Wow, if a man's SO associates with people like this he should just sit there and take it?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> Yet you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've edited my original post in light of that.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Unfortunately I still don't think you can without being controlling. It was kind of concerning to read you said she is "well behaved". That is definitely something you would say about a child at least here in the USA and I suspect the UK too. Don't you think so?


I've edited my post. The term "well behaved" does indeed give the wrong impression. What I mean is civilized, which although is the same thing more or less, is a better word to use as there's no chance of being misinterpreted.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ntamph said:


> Wow, this post deserves a banning.


It's called sarcasm. No reasonable person would think that's what IrishGirlVA was advocating.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

ntamph said:


> Wow, this post deserves a banning.


I don't think it does at all. Irishgirl was spot on. This OP wants to keep his girlfriend's values from being "eroded by negative influences". Guess what? You can't unless you lock her up and never let her out of the house, never let her watch tv, turn on the computer, talk to anyone, etc. 

People in the real world are influenced by all kinds of negative and positive ideas. It's the job of an adult to decide how to incorporate all of those ideas into their own value system. Nobody can do this for you. But the OP wants to control his girlfriend's value system. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> It's called sarcasm. No reasonable person would think that's what IrishGirlVA was advocating.


I know she's being sarcastic. But her implications of his attitude towards his SO are disgusting.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

ntamph said:


> I know she's being sarcastic. But her implications of his attitude towards his SO are disgusting.


I think his attitude towards his girlfriend IS disgusting.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't think you want to control her. It usually backfires.

What you can do to help your case is to live in a neighborhood which is generally upstanding with "good relationships" around you. Where there are mostly stable familes and gf/bf configurations.

If that's what she see's, what is normal, then you should be just ok.

Age gaps can be very tricky, but at the end of the day it's two people. You can use the age-gap to find reasons that you DON'T relate, or you can share and spend new life experiences together and find new ways in which you do relate.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> I don't think it does at all. Irishgirl was spot on. This OP wants to keep his girlfriend's values from being "eroded by negative influences". Guess what? You can't unless you lock her up and never let her out of the house, never let her watch tv, turn on the computer, talk to anyone, etc.
> 
> People in the real world are influenced by all kinds of negative and positive ideas. It's the job of an adult to decide how to incorporate all of those ideas into their own value system. Nobody can do this for you. But the OP wants to control his girlfriend's value system. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.


It was my girlfriend who originally brought up the whole subject. She actually wants me to think of ways to prevent her values from being eroded, and I'm willing to work with her to do that. Obviously not everything can be avoided but it's certainly worth trying to avoid as much of it as possible.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I know she's being sarcastic. But her implications of his attitude towards his SO are disgusting.


I didn't find her post disgusting. I found it humorous actually. She made me laugh. We'll have to agree to disagree as to her post. 

When people read posts like the original post, which seem really off the wall and hard to believe, the responses are going to be off the wall and outlandish too.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

If she is strong independent outside influences won't have a massive influence on her, that also includes you.
She's 22 right now she may change by her 30's, her want's and views may totally change, everybody grows.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> I think his attitude towards his girlfriend IS disgusting.


I don't understand. What have I said that gave you that impression? Please tell me so that I can review what I said. It may be that I chose my words badly. Also I've edited my original post in light of some of the misinterpretations so far.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Wow, if a man's SO associates with people like this he should just sit there and take it?


Umm...number one: WHERE did I say THAT?! Number 2: SHE has the RIGHT to decide who _*her*_ friends are. HE does not have the right to decide who her friends are. That WOULD BE controlling!

He doesn't have to LIKE them, but he doesn't get to dictate who she can or can not be friends with because of HIS fears. 

I had a friend who cheated on her husband, yet I never cheated on mine. I knew this friend since the 8th grade. If my husband 'forbid' me from being friends with her, my husband would be looking at divorce papers. What my friends do has no bearing on ME, and if my husband doesn't know me well enough to trust me, then he has no business being married to me in the first place.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

treyvion said:


> I don't think you want to control her. It usually backfires.
> 
> What you can do to help your case is to live in a neighborhood which is generally upstanding with "good relationships" around you. Where there are mostly stable familes and gf/bf configurations.
> 
> ...


A good neighbourhood, that's a good idea. It might be a bit pricey but I'll have to look into it. I'm not at all concerned about the age gap. If she was immature I'd definitely be put off but she's very mature, like most young ladies in her part of the world.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Do yourself a favor and just get a puppy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> If she is strong independent outside influences won't have a massive influence on her, that also includes you.
> She's 22 right now she may change by her 30's, her want's and views may totally change, everybody grows.


This comes with the territory when dating or trying to be with an under 25 year old. Even if you are an under 25 year old.

Their views may change drastically approaching 30, and you may have good solid views - but thought you were missing out and reach hard to reclaim your youth.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> ...she's very mature, like most young ladies in her part of the world.


If she's "mature", then what are you worried about?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

scatty said:


> Do yourself a favor and just get a puppy.


That's very rude and facetious. Where have I said anything that indicated that I want to control her?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> If she's "mature", then what are you worried about?


Anyone can be negatively influenced by an entire culture. It happens. That's why she brought up the whole subject in the first place, which is very mature in itself.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Vega said:


> Umm...number one: WHERE did I say THAT?! Number 2: SHE has the RIGHT to decide who _*her*_ friends are. HE does not have the right to decide who her friends are. That WOULD BE controlling!
> 
> He doesn't have to LIKE them, but he doesn't get to dictate who she can or can not be friends with because of HIS fears.
> 
> I had a friend who cheated on her husband, yet I never cheated on mine. I knew this friend since the 8th grade. If my husband 'forbid' me from being friends with her, my husband would be looking at divorce papers. What my friends do has no bearing on ME, and if my husband doesn't know me well enough to trust me, then he has no business being married to me in the first place.


If your husband's male friends were all cheating on their wives and regularly visiting strip clubs you wouldn't care?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Yes I agree that you can influence a person. But I don't want to influence her, what I would like is for her good qualities to not be eroded by negative influences.


Then it's impossible for her to remain this way if you intend to be negative to her.

Respect is earned. You can't disrespect a woman and expect respect in return. It doesn't work that way.

This marriage will never work unless you are a positive influence on her and respect her fully. If you expect her to remain the same, you are expectations are too high. We all change over time. I'm certainly not the same woman I was 14 years ago.

My greatest influence IS my husband. He is a very honorable and wonderful husband and father.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If your husband's male friends were all cheating on their wives and regularly visiting strip clubs you wouldn't care?


I think it's natural to be concerned about what one's spouse's friends or their spouses do, for obvious reasons. Negative influences are very insidious. I can't imagine a woman not caring about the scenario you've posed.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> A good neighbourhood, that's a good idea. It might be a bit pricey but I'll have to look into it. I'm not at all concerned about the age gap. If she was immature I'd definitely be put off but she's very mature, like most young ladies in her part of the world.


Then YOU will be the one contributing to the influences around her you so wish to guard her from...materialism, pricey, pretty house and lawn, nice cars, getting her hair and nails done at the salon like all the other nice ladies in the nice neighborhood, competition on whose child is best at the spelling bee or soccer...

Your very life in the UK is unlike the life in her part of the world. 

You can't make her stop growing and developing her mind at the age of 22.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Then it's impossible for her to remain this way if you intend to be negative to her.
> 
> Respect is earned. You can't disrespect a woman and expect respect in return. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> ...


If you can tell me specifically what I've said that gave you the impression that :

I am negative to her, 
and that I don't respect her, 
and that I'm not a positive influence on her, 
and that my expectations of her are too high, 
and that I'm dishonourable, 

I would appreciate it, because if I have given that impression, I would like to edit my original post to make it accurate, in order to avoid any misinterpretation.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I find your post astonishingly naive for someone who has chose to marry a young women from another culture. Did you do any research on the subject? There is a huge chance she married you for the opportunity and not for pure love. Since she is from another culture you may be misinterpreting her actions and values. Do you speak Tagalog? 

She will change and begin to absorb western culture and there's nothing you can do about it. I think what you call civility and humility is actually her compliance to you. 

Have you ever seen Eddie Murphy's comedy video call "RAW". It's old, but basically the main theme is that he imports an African Queen and marries her. After six months she wises up and wants a divorce. She then screams "Eddie I want half!" 

I work in high tech and have spent some time in PI. Some of my co-workers married PI women. The factory I work in now is full of people from PI. I'm betting that your wife is not who you think she is.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm just curious - if this is her concern, why isn't she the one posting and asking about it?


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> I find your post astonishingly naive for someone who has chose to marry a young women from another culture. Did you do any research on the subject? There is a huge chance she married you for the opportunity and not for pure love. Since she is from another culture you may be misinterpreting her actions and values. Do you speak Tagalog?
> 
> She will change and begin to absorb western culture and there's nothing you can do about it. I think what you call civility and humility is actually her compliance to you.
> 
> ...


Trust me, his chances of a successful marriage with a Filipina are much better than with a Western woman. This is shaming and fear mongering.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

norajane said:


> Then YOU will be the one contributing to the influences around her you so wish to guard her from...materialism, pricey, pretty house and lawn, nice cars, getting her hair and nails done at the salon like all the other nice ladies in the nice neighborhood, competition on whose child is best at the spelling bee or soccer...
> 
> Your very life in the UK is unlike the life in her part of the world.
> 
> You can't make her stop growing and developing her mind at the age of 22.


Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's not such a good idea to live in a pricey neck of the woods. I suppose a decent enough neighbourhood can be found without having to spend too much. But just to clarify, expensive cars, nail salons and all the other stuff you describe is not what we have in mind. 

I want her to grow. It's one of the most important things that I would like for her. And I want it to be as free of negative influences as is realistically possible, and so does she, which is why she brought up the subject to me in the first place.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> It was my girlfriend who originally brought up the whole subject. She actually wants me to think of ways to prevent her values from being eroded, and I'm willing to work with her to do that. Obviously not everything can be avoided but it's certainly worth trying to avoid as much of it as possible.


Your first post says it was your cousin who brought the matter to your attention, now you say it was your girlfriend. :scratchhead:

I also wonder if the reason your cousin's marriage didn't work out had nothing do with with cultural influence.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

If SHE is so concerned about negative influences, then SHE will be the one to make choices about her friends, hobbies, etc that will incorporate and reinforce her value system. YOU can't do anything to hide her from the world. At least, you shouldn't.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

ntamph said:


> Trust me, his chances of a successful marriage with a Filipina are much better than with a Western woman. This is shaming and fear mongering.


He blew his chances when he married someone so young and unfamiliar with his culture. My post is based on 20 years of watching my co-workers do the exact same thing. I have nothing against Filipina's. They are some of the nicest and hardest working women I've met across the world. I'm a practical guy and this gentlemen needs to be more realistic about his marriage. She will grow up and change in ways he's clearly not comfortable with, but it will happen regardless.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> I find your post astonishingly naive for someone who has chose to marry a young women from another culture. Did you do any research on the subject? There is a huge chance she married you for the opportunity and not for pure love. Since she is from another culture you may be misinterpreting her actions and values. Do you speak Tagalog?
> 
> She will change and begin to absorb western culture and there's nothing you can do about it. I think what you call civility and humility is actually her compliance to you.
> 
> ...


If I mentioned anything to do with marriage please point me to where I said it so I can go back and edit. To clarify, we are not married. What gave you the impression that we're married?

Anyway why are you so paranoid about getting together with women from other cultures? It's a big world out there, with lots of great things and great people in it.


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## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Anyway why are you so paranoid about getting together with women from other cultures? It's a big world out there, with lots of great things and great people in it.


It sounds like you are the one who is paranoid.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Trust me, his chances of a successful marriage with a Filipina are much better than with a Western woman. This is shaming and fear mongering.


I just want to point out - it's impossible to try and compare Philippines divorce rates with American divorce rates, because divorce is illegal in the Philippines. It's the only place in the world besides -Vatican City- where divorce is still 100% illegal. 

Also - saying X women are better than Y women is shaming and fear mongering, just saying.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I meant that Western man/foreign woman marriages have a much lower divorce rate than domestic marriages. Almost every woman on TAM and many men believe the most disgusting things about foreigners that are borderline racist. "Foreign women only marry Western men for their money." But why do doctors and attorneys have much more attractive wives than McDonald's workers? Why are men without jobs shunned by Western women? "Because he's not ambitious and I deserve better."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If your husband's male friends were all cheating on their wives and regularly visiting strip clubs *you wouldn't care?*


Didn't say that either. 

Of course I would be 'concerned', but I wouldn't be judgmental or CONTROLLING about it. It would definitely depend on what the circumstances were.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> If I mentioned anything to do with marriage please point me to where I said it so I can go back and edit. To clarify, we are not married. What gave you the impression that we're married?
> 
> Anyway why are you so paranoid about getting together with women from other cultures? It's a big world out there, with lots of great things and great people in it.


OK I missed that you were not married. This is a marriage forum after all. At least now you can reevaluate your expectations before you make a commitment. I'm not paranoid. I'm experienced and based on your questions I can tell that you are not. I hope for your sake that your girl is the exception. Like others have said the rules for women in PI are very different. Once she realizes she is no longer constrained by those rules her true wishes and personality will emerge. I hope you like the butterfly. 

Peace


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ntamph said:


> *Almost every *woman on TAM and many men believe the most disgusting things about foreigners that are borderline racist.


Whoa...

Making sweeping statements like this, unsubstantiated by fact, and driven by emotion, is what can get you into some serious trouble...


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP- I have been with my husband since I was 19 years old.

I'm now 46 yrs old and THE only thing that hasn't changed about me is my eye colour. These days I'm far more confident and opinionated and knowledgeable about life in general... basically I matured and grew up.

But then how sad would it be if i had stayed the same (immature and inexperienced) person I was at 20.

We ALL grow up to some degree... your girlfriend will too. In a good marriage you both grow together.

I believe you need to work on your insecurities and fears and allow her to grow up and be herself. She sounds like a good woman...just enjoy her and don't waste time and energy worrying about what she might be like in 10 or 20 years time, just because someone elses marriage went bad. Marriages go bad everyday... they are not YOUR relationship though.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Once she realizes she is no longer constrained by those rules her true wishes and personality will emerge. I hope you like the butterfly.
> 
> Peace


:iagree:
If she changes her values that will be from her own doing not outside influences.
If she doesn't want to change and she's a strong independent person her core values won't change.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ntamph has made a whopping 30 or so posts on TAM....and every single one of them was mean and nasty to someone.

It would be nice if he/she actually had something to contribute versus just nastiness.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Vega said:


> Whoa...
> 
> Making sweeping statements like this, unsubstantiated by fact, and driven by emotion, is what can get you into some serious trouble...


When ever the topic of Western men marrying foreign women comes up, the vast majority of female posters insist that the only possible reason these marriages exist is because the women in them are gold diggers. Look at this thread, lol. There was a thread about if women would date an unemployed man. Every single female poster said she would not because he would by default be a lazy bum. I can find the thread. However, this is not gold digging apparently.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> If SHE is so concerned about negative influences, then SHE will be the one to make choices about her friends, hobbies, etc that will incorporate and reinforce her value system. YOU can't do anything to hide her from the world. At least, you shouldn't.


This is a matter which we both want to work on together.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I meant that Western man/foreign woman marriages have a much lower divorce rate than domestic marriages. Almost every woman on TAM and many men believe the most disgusting things about foreigners that are borderline racist. "Foreign women only marry Western men for their money." But why do doctors and attorneys have much more attractive wives than McDonald's workers? Why are men without jobs shunned by Western women? "Because he's not ambitious and I deserve better."
> 
> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


Sorry but it's been my experience that racism is much worse in the majority of other countries. People are allowed to have opinions regarding who they will marry. People make choices that their economic situation allows them to make. It is a fact that many young women from PI are looking for a nice white boy to take them home away from the abject poverty they live in. This cannot be denied and must be factored into a decision to marry someone. 

I never claimed that western marriages were superior. I think that if you marry someone from your own culture who is close to your age and in the same socio-economic bracket your marriage will have better chance to survive all the challenges of life.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> He blew his chances when he married someone so young and unfamiliar with his culture. My post is based on 20 years of watching my co-workers do the exact same thing. I have nothing against Filipina's. They are some of the nicest and hardest working women I've met across the world. I'm a practical guy and this gentlemen needs to be more realistic about his marriage. She will grow up and change in ways he's clearly not comfortable with, but it will happen regardless.


It's true, filipinas are among the nicest and most hard working and level headed women. It sounds like your co workers didn't take culture into consideration, and that's precisely the kind of thing I want to avoid. I don't want the negativity here to erode her values, and neither does she. 

I don't know why people keep assuming we're married.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

toomuchtotell said:


> It sounds like you are the one who is paranoid.


If that's the impression I'm giving please point me to what I've said that gave you that impression, so that I can edit it to make it accurate. Just to clarify again, it is she who brought up the subject.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> Didn't say that either.
> 
> Of course I would be 'concerned', but I wouldn't be judgmental or CONTROLLING about it. It would definitely depend on what the circumstances were.


I don't know what I've said that makes you believe that I'm controlling or judgmental. Please tell me where you got that impression, and I'll edit for clarification.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

waiwera said:


> OP- I have been with my husband since I was 19 years old.
> 
> I'm now 46 yrs old and THE only thing that hasn't changed about me is my eye colour. These days I'm far more confident and opinionated and knowledgeable about life in general... basically I matured and grew up.
> 
> ...


I don't know why you think it is a case of me being insecure. I have no doubt that I'm good for her and that she is good for me too. If I have said anything that implied that I feel insecure about myself please tell me and I will go back and edit for clarification. It is she who brought up the subject to me, she's the one who is concerned that her values could get eroded by the negative western culture, and when she mentioned it, I agreed that it's an issue. Again, to clarify, I have not said that I am against change. What I, and she, is against, is the negativity of western culture and its impact.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I meant that Western man/foreign woman marriages have a much lower divorce rate than domestic marriages. Almost every woman on TAM and many men believe the most disgusting things about foreigners that are borderline racist. "Foreign women only marry Western men for their money." But why do doctors and attorneys have much more attractive wives than McDonald's workers? Why are men without jobs shunned by Western women? "Because he's not ambitious and I deserve better."
> 
> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


Not sure I follow you. What's wrong with wanting an ambitious man? I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a scrub. I do honestly believe that she would deserve better. What's wrong with that?

Also, I do believe that most foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries are indeed marrying into a better lifestyle. I doubt they'd want to run away with someone who was going to take them away to the exact same impoverished existence.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

> Originally Posted by Vega View Post
> Didn't say that either.
> 
> Of course I would be 'concerned', but I wouldn't be judgmental or CONTROLLING about it. It would definitely depend on what the circumstances were.





Edmund Falcon said:


> I don't know what I've said that makes you believe that I'm controlling or judgmental. Please tell me where you got that impression, and I'll edit for clarification.


OP,

My post *above* wasn't directed toward you. It was addressing a different post by a different poster on this thread.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> It's true, filipinas are among the nicest and most hard working and level headed women. It sounds like your co workers didn't take culture into consideration, and that's precisely the kind of thing I want to avoid. I don't want the negativity here to erode her values, and neither does she.
> 
> I don't know why people keep assuming we're married.



Sorry about the not married thing. My bad. It's true that my co-workers didn't consider the culture first. All they saw was a pretty young women who was willing to have sex with them. For most of these guys the women would have been way out of their league in the looks department back in the US. Typically they couldn't buy a date here, but in PI or Thailand they lived like kings. Perhaps this is not your situation, but when you asked "How do I keep her from changing" it raised alot of red flags. She's going to change. Its just a question of direction.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Not sure I follow you. What's wrong with wanting an ambitious man? I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a scrub. I do honestly believe that she would deserve better. What's wrong with that?
> 
> Also, I do believe that most foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries are indeed marrying into a better lifestyle. I doubt they'd want to run away with someone who was going to take them away to the exact same impoverished existence.


Why is it that when a Western woman marries a wealthy man it's because "He's ambitious" and "she deserves better" but when a foreign woman DOES THE EXACT SAME THING it's "she's a gold digger who is only interested in his money." ?

Can you not see the hypocrisy?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

ntamph said:


> When ever the topic of Western men marrying foreign women comes up, the vast majority of female posters insist that the only possible reason these marriages exist is because the women in them are gold diggers. Look at this thread, lol. There was a thread about if women would date an unemployed man. Every single female poster said she would not because he would by default be a lazy bum. I can find the thread. However, this is not gold digging apparently.


My girlfriend currently earns only a bit less than me, her family own their home in the Philippines, and she has savings. So if she's a golddigger then she's not a very good one. But yes there are golddiggers in all countries, for example all the women on the Millionnaire Matchmaker, which is produced in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The only way to survive in a different culture is to adapt to it. However, this doesn't mean that a person is necessarily going to take on all the negative aspects of that culture in the process...

Our core values are usually formed well before the age of 22 years, so it's unlikely, IMO, that your GF's are going to be adversely compromised at this stage.

Life is about growth, and it is inevitable that your GF will both grow and change in the years to come. This isn't something that you can control (nor should you), but it is something that you can help influence with the way you live your own life and the people you both choose to associate with...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> My cousin and my girlfriend recently had a conversation, after which *he* told me to be very careful about culture. When I asked *him* what he was talking about *he* referred to our friend and his failed marriage. *He* told me that it's not uncommon for *guys like us *to lose our spouses / girlfriends from south east Asia and other parts of the world due to negative cultural influences, i.e. the media, and also other women, unless they're careful.
> 
> The problem, *he* says, is that the good values which these women are raised with tend to become eroded over the years unless one is careful, and that I should work with her to minimize that, in order to avoid problems down the line, although it can certainly be avoided.



This is your first post. I've bolded where you say that your (male) cousin is telling you this. Although you g/f may have been with you, it was your COUSIN who first brought this subject up; NOT your g/f as you have been saying: 



> It is *she* who brought up the subject to me, *she's* the one who is concerned that her values could get eroded by the negative western culture, and when *she* mentioned it, I agreed that it's an issue


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> It's not on you. It's on her and what she wants.
> 
> If she wants to keep her current values, she will.
> 
> ...


What she wants is to keep her values, and she wants me to help her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No one stays the same. Sorry.

If she has a strong foundation about marriage and it matches yours, then ok.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> If you can tell me specifically what I've said that gave you the impression that :
> 
> I am negative to her,
> and that I don't respect her,
> ...


Your wording of your posts are then coming off in a different way then you are truly implying.

From what I see is that you don't want your wife to change of who she currently is. You love how she treats you and everyone else. This is really a good thing.  I don't know what you are so worried about. If your afraid that she will change or do a "bait and switch", then don't marry her until your sure. Move in together first to see if this is who you want to spend the rest of your life with.

You can't predict the future. You are taking a risk. That is what life's about, taking risks. There are no guarantee's in life.

I don't personally know about other culture ways other then my own. However, I do know not to ever base or view your own relationships of others that have failed, that's unfair. 

Good luck with your gf. It does sound like you found a wonderful woman.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> This is your first post. I've bolded where you say that your (male) cousin is telling you this. Although you g/f may have been with you, it was your COUSIN who first brought this subject up; NOT your g/f as you have been saying:


It was a conversation between my girlfriend and my cousin. They both spoke to me about that conversation and brought my attention to the issue of negative western culture.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> My girlfriend currently earns only a bit less than me, her family own their home in the Philippines, and she has savings. So if she's a golddigger then she's not a very good one. But yes there are golddiggers in all countries, for example all the women on the Millionnaire Matchmaker, which is produced in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.


Ha Ha. The women on Matchmaker are the worst of the worst. The guys are pretty lame as well. Any decent guy with a few bucks doesn't need to be setup.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Not sure I follow you. What's wrong with wanting an ambitious man? I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a scrub. I do honestly believe that she would deserve better. What's wrong with that?
> 
> Also, I do believe that most foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries are indeed marrying into a better lifestyle. I doubt they'd want to run away with someone who was going to take them away to the exact same impoverished existence.


Filipinas as well as women from other countries are very family orientated. You may be surprised to learn that a lot of them actually prefer their husbands to live with them in their own country for that reason, not to mention the familiarity. 

Also, some western men do not have that much success with filipinas, which would not be the case if all they wanted was a mealticket. They have standards, they won't go with just any guy who shows up. 

Not to mention the fact that the world outside of the US and UK is not all impoverished.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> What she wants is to keep her values, and she wants me to help her.


I feel like we are talking in circles.

OP - You can only control YOU. If you want to keep her away from negative influences, then you can do your best not to expose her to negative influences from you. But all of the other influences that she will encounter on a daily basis, you can do nothing about. If she really feels this strongly about it, you have nothing to worry about. What advice are you really looking for?

It feels like you are looking for us to validate you in saying that you shouldn't allow her to watch tv, go out, talk to people, look at the internet, etc. Which, we won't endorse. I don't understand how you think we can advise you to keep your girlfriend from being exposed to life?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> What she wants is to keep her values, and she wants me to help her.


It really isn't your place to "help" her, OP. That's HER job. 

I'm almost certain that the longer you two are a couple, the two of you will eventually disagree on values and morals of SOME sort. 

For example: MOST people believe that if you're married, and you have sexual intercourse without a condom, and have an orgasm with a member of the opposite sex who is NOT your spouse, you DEFINITELY cheated. Statistically, over 90% of the world population over the age of 18 believes this, so I'd say it's "universal". 

But is it 'cheating' for a married woman to give a mutual male friend of the couple a hug good-bye if her husband is in another room? Some people would say, "YES!!" Others would say "no". 

There is no "universal standard" in that second scenario. I know that my exh. wouldn't have an issue if I did this. But I also know of an exb/f who would have had a HUGE issue with it. 

At some point, her values and morals may differ from your own. However, it doesn't mean that hers are "wrong" and yours are "right". This is where it takes effective communication, so you can both understand each other and decide as a couple how to proceed.

Vega


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> Sorry about the not married thing. My bad. It's true that my co-workers didn't consider the culture first. All they saw was a pretty young women who was willing to have sex with them. For most of these guys the women would have been way out of their league in the looks department back in the US. Typically they couldn't buy a date here, but in PI or Thailand they lived like kings. Perhaps this is not your situation, but when you asked "How do I keep her from changing" it raised alot of red flags. She's going to change. Its just a question of direction.


Of course. You've actually touched on something else which is off topic but it might have some relevance I don't know. You say that the guys who go to other parts of the world have success with women whereas they wouldn't have success back home. 

That's absolutely true. Now, it could be that those guys don't have much to offer and therefore they are rejected by western women, or it could be that western women are far more likely to be way too ambitious in terms of what they feel they deserve. That's a matter for debate of course, but you only have to take a look at western media to get a clue as to which is the most plausible of the two explanations.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Filipinas as well as women from other countries are very family orientated. You may be surprised to learn that a lot of them actually prefer their husbands to live with them in their own country for that reason, not to mention the familiarity.
> 
> Also, some western men do not have that much success with filipinas, which would not be the case if all they wanted was a mealticket. They have standards, they won't go with just any guy who shows up.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that the world outside of the US and UK is not all impoverished.


The world outside of western culture is mostly poor on a statistical basis and PI is no exception. If your wife's family owns a home and your wife has a legit career then your off to a good start.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> I feel like we are talking in circles.
> 
> OP - You can only control YOU. If you want to keep her away from negative influences, then you can do your best not to expose her to negative influences from you. But all of the other influences that she will encounter on a daily basis, you can do nothing about. If she really feels this strongly about it, you have nothing to worry about. What advice are you really looking for?
> 
> It feels like you are looking for us to validate you in saying that you shouldn't allow her to watch tv, go out, talk to people, look at the internet, etc. Which, we won't endorse. I don't understand how you think we can advise you to keep your girlfriend from being exposed to life?


If I've said anything that implies that I don't want her to watch tv, look at the internet, go out, talk to people etc, please let me know and I'll go back and clarify so as to avoid any misinterpretation. 

Also, if you feel that I'm a bad influence on her, do let me know what made you feel that way. I'll edit whatever it is that gave you that impression in order to make it accurate.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> It really isn't your place to "help" her, OP. That's HER job.
> 
> I'm almost certain that the longer you two are a couple, the two of you will eventually disagree on values and morals of SOME sort.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that it's her job to help her? Why do you say that when I've already emphasised that she asked for my help? She asked because it matters to her, it was she who brought it up. It's something that we agree on, why wouldn't I help her when she has asked for my help?

I also don't understand why you feel that there's a problem in communication. What did I say to make you feel that? I'm happy to go back and clarify and avoid any confusion.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

FrenchFry said:


> Remove the cultural differences from the equation. It's a pretty small part of the question honestly because everyone you meet is different, no matter what country or culture they are from.
> 
> What actions are you looking for the community to suggest to have your GF not change? I'm trying to get a feel for what you think you can do yourself to get another person not to change.


I'd like you to answer FrenchFry's question clearly. Otherwise, I don't see any point in this thread. I don't know what you are looking for. What kinds of things to "help" her do you have in mind?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> This is what I'm trying to figure out and probably the reason you are getting called controlling.
> 
> Everything around a person influences them. Advertising is huge business for a reason. The only way you could potentially not have someone be influenced by their world is to take them out of it.
> 
> I don't think you want to do that. What else do you think you can do to not have your GF be influenced by the world?


Are you saying that the reason why I am being accused of being controlling is because posters don't know if that's what's going on? If so then I'd suggest that they take what I've said at face value, and if you come across anything that confuses you or gives you a negative impression, just let me know and I'll review it.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> I'd like you to answer FrenchFry's question clearly. Otherwise, I don't see any point in this thread. I don't know what you are looking for. What kinds of things to "help" her do you have in mind?


I don't know. What do you think can be done?


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Of course. You've actually touched on something else which is off topic but it might have some relevance I don't know. You say that the guys who go to other parts of the world have success with women whereas they wouldn't have success back home.
> 
> That's absolutely true. Now, it could be that those guys don't have much to offer and therefore they are rejected by western women, or it could be that western women are far more likely to be way too ambitious in terms of what they feel they deserve. That's a matter for debate of course, but you only have to take a look at western media to get a clue as to which is the most plausible of the two explanations.


It's a little of both. One thing to remember is the media in the US mostly reflects the values of the cosmopolitan areas along the west and east coast. There are many areas where the women are still grounded and willing to put in the hard work needed to have a successful family. However, they are definitely an endangered species in LA where I grew up.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> It's a little of both. One thing to remember is the media in the US mostly reflects the values of the cosmopolitan areas along the west and east coast. There are many areas where the women are still grounded and willing to put in the hard work needed to have a successful family. However, they are definitely an endangered species in LA where I grew up.


I guess you're right. But the media is very powerful, and what people in the midwest see on tv day after day tends to become pedastalised, not to mention the exportation of US / UK values on the rest of the world. I think people underestimate the power of the media, and family values (or lack of). Values are what makes a person, and sadly, values in the west are warped. My girlfriend is intelligent and worldly enough to be very aware of this, hence her concerns.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I don't know. What do you think can be done?


Wow. Troll much?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> My cousin and my girlfriend recently had a conversation, after which *he told me to be very careful *about culture. When I asked him what he was talking about he referred to our friend and his failed marriage. He told me that it's not uncommon for guys like us to lose our spouses / girlfriends from south east Asia and other parts of the world due to *negative cultural influences, i.e. the media, and also other women,* *unless they're careful*.
> 
> The problem, he says, is that the good values which these women are raised with tend to become eroded over the years *unless one is careful*, and that I should work with her to minimize that, in order to avoid problems down the line, although* it can certainly be avoided*.
> 
> And because those are the things that I like so much about her (which I very much appreciate, and I tell her this often), I really don't want her to lose any of that, but I fear that *if we're not careful,* that could happen, and I could end up like *my friend who wasn't careful*.


Why don't you ask your cousin and your friend how to be "more careful" and what your friend did specifically that he "wasn't careful"?

Since you and your cousin seem to be so sure that these things can "certainly be avoided," then it seems you are the ones who know what precisely to do to "avoid" and be "careful" of whatever it is you are afraid of.



> If she were to be negatively influenced, I wouldn't try to stop that from playing out, however of course I'd be sad and disappointed, but I'd hope and trust that she finds her own way of evolving without compromising her values. But the problem is that it's risky which is why I'd rather those influences were avoided in the first place, and she totally gets that.


What influences are you talking about? 

You mention media and other women. Is that all media and all women? What about other men? Books? Family and friends?

You can't make your girlfriend avoid all media and other women. Or anything or anyone else.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

norajane said:


> Why don't you ask your cousin and your friend how to be "more careful" and what your friend did specifically that he "wasn't careful"?
> 
> Since you and your cousin seem to be so sure that these things can "certainly be avoided," then it seems you are the ones who know what precisely to do to "avoid" and be "careful" of whatever it is you are afraid of.
> 
> ...


I never said that I want to make her do or not do anything. She brought up the subject and she asked what we can do. I'm happy to go back and edit and correct anything I've said that made you feel that I want to make her do anything.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> No, you are being called controlling because (I'm assuming here)
> 
> Most posters, including myself, cannot imagine a way to make sure an adult doesn't change their values without going to lengths such as: removing internet/tv, disallowing contact with outside people, controlling money etc.
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting that we do nothing, and leave it all to chance? It obviously means an awful lot to her, and to me too, so why would we do that? We take our relationship very seriously and we would never dream of being complacent or neglectful. A lot of relationships fail due a lack of effort, when they could have worked. There's a whole industry built around helping people with relationships, so it's obvious that they are not to be taken lightly. If this was any other issue would you be so quick to say just leave it to the gods?


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I guess you're right. But the media is very powerful, and what people in the midwest see on tv day after day tends to become pedastalised, not to mention the exportation of US / UK values on the rest of the world. I think people underestimate the power of the media, and family values (or lack of). Values are what makes a person, and sadly, values in the west are warped. My girlfriend is intelligent and worldly enough to be very aware of this, hence her concerns.


The West's value system is definitely a bit warped and shallow now but I wouldn't live anywhere else. There are very few countries that have our resources, infrastructure and relative safety.

The media is a total joke and IMO the mainstream media is about to implode due to the internet influence. People in the US don't trust the media anymore.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Edmund Falcon said:


> *I don't know why you think it is a case of me being insecure*. I have no doubt that I'm good for her and that she is good for me too. If I have said anything that implied that I feel insecure about myself please tell me and I will go back and edit for clarification. It is she who brought up the subject to me, she's the one who is concerned that her values could get eroded by the negative western culture, and when she mentioned it, I agreed that it's an issue. Again, to clarify, I have not said that I am against change. What I, and she, is against, is the negativity of western culture and its impact.


Ummm...because of all the words you wrote in your original post and pretty much all the words in every post since then. 

But then these words and indeed your original post keep changing...to suit you and story, of course.

So I'll back out of this thread... good luck.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

The simplest solution to me seems that you should move with her back to the Philippines. Or do you enjoy the trappings of Western civilization too much as long as they aren't influencing your GF?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

waiwera said:


> Ummm...because of all the words you wrote in your original post and pretty much all the words in every post since then.
> 
> But then these words and indeed your original post keep changing...to suit you and story, of course.
> 
> So I'll back out of this thread... good luck.


I was hoping for something specific. I don't want anyone to misinterpret my words, which is why I'm more than happy to edit them.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Are you saying that it's her job to help her? Why do you say that when I've already emphasised that she asked for my help? She asked because it matters to her, it was she who brought it up. It's something that we agree on, why wouldn't I help her when she has asked for my help?
> 
> I also don't understand why you feel that there's a problem in communication. What did I say to make you feel that? I'm happy to go back and clarify and avoid any confusion.


Yes, I'm saying that it's HER job to help herself. SHE is responsible for herself. You are not responsible _*for*_ her. If you love her, you can remind her that it's up to HER to decide what's best for herself. It's up to HER to decide what morals she's going to live by. 

I'm sure it's very flattering to you for her to ask you for your 'help'. But believe me, this is NOT up to you. 

Allowing her to be responsible for herself is actually a loving thing to do...

Vega


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Are you suggesting that we do nothing, and leave it all to chance? It obviously means an awful lot to her, and to me too, so why would we do that? We take our relationship very seriously and we would never dream of being complacent or neglectful. A lot of relationships fail due a lack of effort, when they could have worked. There's a whole industry built around helping people with relationships, so it's obvious that they are not to be taken lightly. If this was any other issue would you be so quick to say just leave it to the gods?


If it means a lot to both of you and you have talked about it and take it seriously, that's ALL you can do. There isn't anything else.

If this is so important to your girlfriend, why do you think she is so likely to be "ruined"? You say she is intelligent, mature and responsible. But you also worry that all of that is going to get thrown out the window by exposure to a new culture. Which is it? Because you have a very low opinion of your gf if you think her values could be swayed so easily.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

The reason you're not getting an answer you like is because what you're asking is just not plausible outside of what French Fry has already told you.
Whether you want to admit it or not, what you're seeking to do is control your partner, it doesn't matter if she asked for your assistance in this, it's still control.
Now, at this time, with her being only 22, she may very well welcome your help controlling her, but years down the road she could revolt from that control, THAT'S what you need to prepare for.
If your partner is all the things you have described, then I don't see how she's going to somehow lose her values.
If she changes, it's HER choice to change, not because of TV, magazines, other people, or even you, it will all be up to her what she may or not not do.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> Yes, I'm saying that it's HER job to help herself. SHE is responsible for herself. You are not responsible _*for*_ her. If you love her, you can remind her that it's up to HER to decide what's best for herself. It's up to HER to decide what morals she's going to live by.
> 
> I'm sure it's very flattering to you for her to ask you for your 'help'. But believe me, this is NOT up to you.
> 
> ...


In relationships people make joint decisions all the time. This is no different. Plus, it is a very serious and important matter, which shouldn't be left to chance. Why are you resistant to the idea of us doing this together? What is it about it that makes you uncomfortable? If she wants my help, why do you object so much to the idea of me giving it to her, and working jointly with her? What makes this any different from anything else?


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I was hoping for something specific. I don't want anyone to misinterpret my words, which is why I'm more than happy to edit them.


All you can do is lead your life according to your values and hope you two grow together. That's all anyone can hope for in the end. You can only influence her in a positive way by controlling what you do. Anything more then that is not healthy.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> I was hoping for something specific. I don't want anyone to misinterpret my words, which is why I'm more than happy to edit them.


Quit editing. Quit arguing. Please. 

You admire her good traits. You want to assure that those traits remain. 

People here are telling you life has no guarantee. People change, like it or not. 

So what's the problem? If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. 

It IS really that simple.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Are you suggesting that we do nothing, and leave it all to chance? It obviously means an awful lot to her, and to me too, so why would we do that? We take our relationship very seriously and we would never dream of being complacent or neglectful. A lot of relationships fail due a lack of effort, when they could have worked. There's a whole industry built around helping people with relationships, so it's obvious that they are not to be taken lightly. If this was any other issue would you be so quick to say just leave it to the gods?


HER values are not YOUR values. YOUR values are not HER values. Values are not a "couples issue"; they're an_ individual _issue. 

You don't get to 'help her' work on HER values any more than SHE gets to 'help you' work on YOURS. YOUR values are _personal_, as are hers. 

You can no more 'help' her to figure out what her values are than you can 'help' her to figure out what her favorite flavor of ice cream is or her favorite color is.

Vega


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm out.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And, P.S., - you have no power whatsoever to make sure she stays the same. Regardless. 

Carry on.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

The only way she can keep her values is if she set's them herself, no one but her can change or keep her values. She sounds like she's pretty unsure of herself or how strong her core values are.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

justonelife said:


> If it means a lot to both of you and you have talked about it and take it seriously, that's ALL you can do. There isn't anything else.
> 
> If this is so important to your girlfriend, why do you think she is so likely to be "ruined"? You say she is intelligent, mature and responsible. But you also worry that all of that is going to get thrown out the window by exposure to a new culture. Which is it? Because you have a very low opinion of your gf if you think her values could be swayed so easily.


This is something that concerns her very much. She knows that no matter how well she's been brought up, she can still be negatively influenced, which I think is very wise judgment on her part. Anybody can be negatively influenced. Anybody who thinks they can't be affected by a negative culture, particularly those who live in one and see it every day, is sadly fooling themselves, which is why I really admire my girlfriend.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> The reason you're not getting an answer you like is because what you're asking is just not plausible outside of what French Fry has already told you.
> Whether you want to admit it or not, what you're seeking to do is control your partner, it doesn't matter if she asked for your assistance in this, it's still control.
> Now, at this time, with her being only 22, she may very well welcome your help controlling her, but years down the road she could revolt from that control, THAT'S what you need to prepare for.
> If your partner is all the things you have described, then I don't see how she's going to somehow lose her values.
> If she changes, it's HER choice to change, not because of TV, magazines, other people, or even you, it will all be up to her what she may or not not do.


Which aspect of it implies control? Maybe I worded it wrong. Let me know and I'll take a look at what I said.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I know I've been affected by a negative culture, I swear too damn much.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

justonelife said:


> I'd like you to answer FrenchFry's question clearly. Otherwise, I don't see any point in this thread. I don't know what you are looking for. What kinds of things to "help" her do you have in mind?


There appears to be no point to this thread.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> In relationships people make joint decisions all the time.


Yes, but this isn't one of those decisions that a couple can make together. People change. 



> This is no different.


I beg to differ...



> Why are you resistant to the idea of us doing this together?


Because it isn't a couple's decision any more than deciding "together" what HER favorite ice cream flavor is.



> If she wants my help, why do you object so much to the idea of me giving it to her, and working jointly with her?


Because I've seen what happens when one partner asks for 'help' on issues like this from the other partner. Also, one of my best friend's is a successful marriage therapist. I met her because I used her when going through my divorce. I told her that my ex asked for 'help' in his own 'moral issue'. She told me pretty much what nearly EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD has been telling you. Eventually, my ex would have RESENTED my 'help', because he's a different person than I am. Luckily, I declined to help him.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> HER values are not YOUR values. YOUR values are not HER values. Values are not a "couples issue"; they're an_ individual _issue.
> 
> You don't get to 'help her' work on HER values any more than SHE gets to 'help you' work on YOURS. YOUR values are _personal_, as are hers.
> 
> ...


If I've somehow made it sound like I feel that her values are my values, let me know so I can correct that. She already knows what her values are, she was instilled with them for many years, and she wants to keep them, not change them. Changing them is the last thing she wants to do.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> No.
> 
> I'm suggesting that the only persons values you can change or not change are yours.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you feel that I want her to change her values. To clarify again she asked me to help her keep her existing values.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> The only way she can keep her values is if she set's them herself, no one but her can change or keep her values. She sounds like she's pretty unsure of herself or how strong her core values are.


I'm sure I've described her as someone who takes her values very seriously, but if anything has given you any other impression of her tell me and I'll take a look at what I said. She already is aware that a negative culture can have an effect on anyone, no matter how well they were brought up.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

She doesn't have to change them if she doesn't want to, how much outside influence effects her is entirely up to her.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

norajane said:


> There appears to be no point to this thread.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Can I hear a loud "AMEN!" from the choir?

Thank you.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Vega said:


> Yes, but this isn't one of those decisions that a couple can make together. People change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a few friends who have married or are with women from other cultures, and the ones that have lasted are those who had the foresight to deal with this issue.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> They are going to change unless you keep her in a box.
> 
> What can your GF do to change your values?


Why do you ask what she can do to change my values? This isn't about anybody changing her values, it's about her asking for help in retaining her existing values.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So pray tell, how did they deal with this issue?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> She doesn't have to change them if she doesn't want to, how much outside influence effects her is entirely up to her.


But she doesn't want to change them, nor does she want me to change them, and neither do I. Did I say anything that made you feel that she wants to change them or that I want to change them? I'm more than happy to review what I said.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Anybody can be negatively influenced.


...including *YOU*, OP! That's WHY _you_ can't 'help' her with HER values! How do you think she would react if YOU were negatively influenced and then told HER how SHE 'should' be? If she found out the truth, she'd be plenty mad at you!

Vega


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Agreed, yes. But she doesn't want to change them.


Exactly, if she doesn't want them to change then she doesn't change them, if they change that's up to her not anything else.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> Exactly, if she doesn't want them to change then she doesn't change them, if they change that's up to her not anything else.


When a person is brought up in any culture, they have very little choice as to how much they're influenced by that culture. No one ever tells a kid that they chose to be a certain way. Most people recognize that it's the culture that shaped them. 

If they move to another country, with a different culture, and over time they adapt and take on to a certain extent the values of that culture, again, they don't have that much control over it. They may have more control than a child, but cultures, all cultures, are very powerful, because when you're surrounded by a way of life and that's all you're surrounded by, it does affect you, regardless of your age. It happens. And again, no one ever says that they chose to become that way because most people recognize that when you move to another culture, it does have an effect on a person. They may be held more accountable than a child would, but again people do acknowledge that being in a culture has an effect on a person. You may not be able to totally eradicate their original way of thinking, but whatever new culture they're now in will over time have an increasing effect on them. Ask any expat who has been living in another country and I'm sure they'll agree. 

So I don't understand why people keep saying that the only person or factor that can do anything to determine my girlfriend's values is her. Clearly, the western culture that she is now in is will mostly be responsible for that, as time passes, just as her culture at home was until recently. But thankfully she has the wisdom to be well aware of this, which is why she wants to do something about reducing its effect.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

My husband is from Canada, and I am from China. The way you describe your wife is like the way my husband describes me. When you have something this good, you don't want to lose it, I can really understand your worries. 

People do change, but some core values won't change. I have changed, but to be better and more mature. One thing my husband does is by telling me how disappointed he is with western society. Tell her why you don't like western society, tell her why you don't like western women. She loves you and she will strive to be the woman you love. 

People from the Philippines go to church, a lot of their core values are shaped by the Bible wisdom. Don't take that away from her. Encourage her to go to church, or even go to church with her. I know a lot of people in western countries are disgusted by religions, but there are a lot of good things there, people who don't go to church don't know. They let the fanatics blind them and scare them. But it is not like that. 

And you have to be a wonderful husband to her. Let her cherish you a lot so that she doesn't want to do anything silly to lose you. My husband always says, respect her, treat her well, and love her, but don't spoil her. Be affectionate, be considerate, and be caring, and of course, a responsible provider.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

As someone who has lived in many places/different cultures I stick by what I said, if she doesn't want to change she doesn't change.
Culture will have as much/little effect on her as she chooses it to have.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

greenpearl said:


> My husband is from Canada, and I am from China. The way you describe your wife is like the way my husband describes me. When you have something this good, you don't want to lose it, I can really understand your worries.
> 
> People do change, but some core values won't change. I have changed, but to be better and more mature. One thing my husband does is by telling me how disappointed he is with western society. Tell her why you don't like western society, tell her why you don't like why western women. She loves you and she will strive to be the woman you love.
> 
> ...


You're suggesting that I talk to her about how bad western culture is and how bad the women are, and I suppose I could do that. Although I'm not sure if there's much need for that as she already feels that way. She's very critical about western women already and she has no wish to change in that direction.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> As someone who has lived in many places/different cultures I stick by what I said, if she doesn't want to change she doesn't change.
> Culture will have as much/little effect on her as she chooses it to have.


If that's the case then she probably has nothing to worry about, since she is determined to retain the good values that she was brought up with. Others have been less fortunate, not so much because they didn't want to be tainted by western culture, but because they sleepwalked into it assuming that they were immune. I've travelled quite a bit myself and I've seen it firsthand.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> You're suggesting that I talk to her about how bad western culture is and how bad the women are, and I suppose I could do that. Although I'm not sure if there's much need for that as she already feels that way. She's very critical about western women already and she has no wish to change in that direction.


See, you have it. That's her core value. She won't change it. 

Don't do it too obviously, like " Honey, I have to tell you something." As a couple, you have daily conversation. Sometimes topics about culture will come up, and you can share your thoughts with her. 

She is a smart girl. A smart girl will try hard to keep the good, and get rid of the bad.

People become wiser and wiser as they grow older, not more and more stupid.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> She's very critical about western women already and *she has no wish to change in that direction*.


Then what are you worried about? Edited to add: If she's 'fine' the way she is, and has no desire to change, then you have no reason to 'help' her. She seems to be doing pretty good _*without*_ your 'help'! 

Look, there can be negative influences all around her. If SHE doesn't want to change, she won't. If she knows herself and has self-control and likes herself the way she is, she won't change.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> If that's the case then she probably has nothing to worry about, since she is determined to retain the good values that she was brought up with. Others have been less fortunate, not so much because they didn't want to be tainted by western culture, but because they sleepwalked into it assuming that they were immune. I've travelled quite a bit myself and I've seen it firsthand.


If she knows this upfront and if she treasures the current interaction that you two share, you may just be a very lucky guy.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

greenpearl said:


> People become wiser and wiser as they grow older, not more and more stupid.


You obviously haven't met my exh...


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

norajane said:


> There appears to be no point to this thread.


The point is to get a rise out of you western women. I've seen more posts on the merits of Asian women over "western" meaning American women in the past 3 weeks than the previous year.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have already lost her. The second you thought to control the direction of her growth, you lost. You talk like an old man with no vision just fear of loss. You have nothing to fear, you don't own a 22 yo. She happens to be with you now. You are making designs and plans for a future that is wide open for her. You had your wide open future, you get only one and you don't get to take another's. 

Maybe you can understand it this way. You are almost 40, are you the same person your were at 22? How and why did you change? I believe you woukd say that you chose to be who you are under the influenced by your surroundings, culture, no? No one tried to control the direction of your growth. In fact, it would have been like reaping the wind. 

You will not be able to suspend this girl in time because it is convenient for you. You may be able to control her now but as she nears 25 or so, she will realize that you are stealing her youth and leave to embrace the vistas before her. 

It you want a more predictable partner pick a woman who is fully grown up and know what she wants. This 22 yo girl has no idea what she is getting into with a man so much older. She is giving up he freedom to grow and develop. Many a middle aged man has tried to glass enclose a young naive girl. Ask them about their success. If it is so easy must be millions around to give advice. 

She will eventually want a young vibrant man full of the promise of his future. One who excites the passion of the woman she becomes. It will be a man who shares her vision and is not trying to shove his vision in her face. It is unlikely to be a 40 yo man who, in an act of extreme selfishness, stiffles her growth and acts like a jailer. She will run from that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She is 22. The human brain isn't even fully developed until about 25.

What someone is/wants before 25 is not what they are/want at 30, 40, or later. The key is to grow together with strong foundations.

If I married the man I was with at 22, I'd been divorced not long after.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

> My husband is from Canada, and I am from China. The way you describe your wife is like the way my husband describes me. When you have something this good, you don't want to lose it, I can really understand your worries.
> 
> People do change, but some core values won't change. I have changed, but to be better and more mature. One thing my husband does is by telling me how disappointed he is with western society. Tell her why you don't like western society, tell her why you don't like western women. She loves you and she will strive to be the woman you love.
> 
> ...


Poor western women.

Women from around the world are empowered by what we have done here. The countries that are so prized for their fine values, are some of the worse places in the world for woman and girls. 

Do the woman who run down western women send their daughters back home for training when they come of age?.

I've always wondered why these pious women from elsewhere dian to taint themselves by living among the unwashed "Western woman"? 

We "Western" women live in a culture with people who are reliable, creative, hard working, innovative, independent, honest, forthright and tolerant. 

Our society is not stymied by a system of bribes and corruption that keeps the economy running to the dirt and the average man poor. We don't blow up people because they are of a different ethnicity, race or creed. 

In fact there is no more diverse a place on that planet than in Western societies yet we are remarkably stable. 

We Western women have a lot to do with that ethic. We bring our kids up to these standards. Thank you. It takes a bit of back bone to make a go of a place that is the envy of everyone on the planet. 

When you non-western woman turn your countries around so that people are flocking to them and not away, then do we can talk about what it takes. 

Otherwise, please enjoy all of the reasons you are in this part of the world and not back "home". Be grateful for the good providence that brought you to a better place for your family. 

Show that outwardly by not running down 50% of the reason for its existence. The "Western" women who were courageous enough to find there own way in a new land. We didn't have traditions handed to us, we had to create them. 

I don't understand why any woman would engage in the criticism of Western women. If our society is bad, is it just woman who make it so? Are the men so weak? Why don't you ask your husband about that. 

Yea that's right, American, born and raised. Proud of it too. I don't have to parrot what men say. The men who don't like a plain speaking woman will stand clear, go home and run me down to the wife. 

I don't like men who need to run down women to feel like they have balls. Give me a man who is sure enough of himself that he'll stand right there and tell me what he thinks. 

If he says "shut up girl you don't know what you're talking about". All the better. 

Be careful you might turn into a ..... ! feminist !.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

that_girl said:


> She is 22. The human brain isn't even fully developed until about 25.
> 
> What someone is/wants before 25 is not what they are/want at 30, 40, or later. The key is to grow together with strong foundations.
> 
> If I married the man I was with at 22, I'd been divorced not long after.


This is true.

But two people could decide to grow together and share their dreams and aspirations and support each other... It's not always an explosive departure... But many times it is 

Just one thing to be aware of. I do still think that two 21 years olds can get married have a great life as long as they don't try to conform to societal pressures and whats on hollywood!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Poor western women.
> 
> Women from around the world are empowered by what we have done here. The countries that are so prized for their fine values, are some of the worse places in the world for woman and girls.
> 
> ...


By the way, I don't live in the States or Canada. Not interested. I live in Taiwan, a wonderful place. 

I believe a culture has its good and bad. Eastern culture has bad points too. I tend to take the good from each culture and apply it into my life. There are a lot of good things about western culture too. For example, people's thinking is not too restricted, people are more open. 

But I do want to point out, I am not interested in family values in western countries, neither am I interested in the over spending lifestyle. 

It's always a good thing to know why some western men are attracted to eastern women. Sometimes it is just opposite attracts. It is always a good thing to learn about another culture.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> My husband is from Canada, and I am from China. The way you describe your wife is like the way my husband describes me. When you have something this good, you don't want to lose it, I can really understand your worries.
> 
> People do change, but some core values won't change. I have changed, but to be better and more mature. One thing my husband does is by telling me how disappointed he is with western society. Tell her why you don't like western society, tell her why you don't like western women. She loves you and she will strive to be the woman you love.
> 
> ...


So are you saying that everything in the Chinese and Philippine cultures are wonderful and good? I hope you are not because we are not that naïve. There are bad things in those cultures as well. Those things influence the people who live in those countries just as much.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Catherine I hear what your saying but really it's best to take with a pinch of salt, if some want to tar all western (more specifically western women) with the same brush that's their choice and not our problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> Catherine I hear what your saying but really it's best to take with a pinch of salt, if some want to tar all western (more specifically western women) with the same brush that's their choice and not our problem.


Yep, it simply shows that they are small minded.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> EDIT Thread title :
> 
> How do we make sure that she doesn't lose her values?
> 
> ...


You are ‘ruined’ by western culture. What does she say about that?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Do you guys always think in the case of age-gap relationships that the younger one is being cheated by the older or the other way around?

Couldn't it be possible that the younger is gaining some ground quicker due to the experience of the older?

Isn't it possible that they relate in ways that the age does not really matter?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> EDIT Thread title : So, back to my original question, how do we minimize the chances of her becoming "ruined" by UK / US culture?
> 
> I've already mentioned this to her, and she is well aware that living in a western country can erode positive values instilled in other cultures and she has said that she is determined not to let it happen to her.


Others have brought this up: she’s 22. She is going to change in so many ways over the next 8 years. It would not matter what country/culture she lives in. The human brain does not finish development until about age 26. 

Think of how you were a 22 and how you were at 30 and now. That is how much she will change even in the best environment.
The UK/US culture does not ‘ruin’ people. We can find as much bad in the Philippines as we can find in the US and UK. What matters is how a person lives their own life.
As others have pointed out, you cannot “make sure she stays the same”. She won’t stay the same. Hopefully she will chose to get even better. But in the end, she is the only one who can do this.

You can in influence on her to the extent that she allows it.

What I suggest is that you not try to keep her isolated or control her. Your post does sound like that might be what you are thinking but that will back fire. I know you say that is not your intent. The best thing you can do is to communicate with her. Talk about everything with her. Share her goals and your goals. Share your values. If you see something that upsets you, talk with her. If you see things you like talk with her. And encourage her to do the same.

You say said somewhere in one of your posts that culture affects everyone. Yes it does. But not everyone in a society is exactly the same.

What people do is to pick and choose where we live, who we let into our lives and what we let into our lives. 

Your posts make it sound like every person form western culture (except you of course) is a low life, drug user, sleaze. Why the extreme paranoia?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Do you guys always think in the case of age-gap relationships that the younger one is being cheated by the older or the other way around?
> 
> Couldn't it be possible that the younger is gaining some ground quicker due to the experience of the older?
> 
> Isn't it possible that they relate in ways that the age does not really matter?


Of course it’s possible that the younger one is getting a lot out of the relationship. 

I think that you are missing the point. Most 22 year olds are not mature enough to be making decision that might last a life-time.
We hear about the high divorce rate in the USA. Do you know why it’s high? It’s because most divorces occur when a woman under 25 marries or a man under 30 marries. The divorce rate in this group is around 60%.

When the man is over 30 and the woman over 25… and she has a college degree, the divorce rate is below 25%.

The older and better educated a couple is, the lower the divorce rate.

Very, very often young women hook up with older guys for the benefits of someone who is stable and has money to spend on her. As one of these young girls matures, she usually leaves the older guy.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> By the way, I don't live in the States or Canada. Not interested. I live in Taiwan, a wonderful place.
> 
> I believe a culture has its good and bad. Eastern culture has bad points too. I tend to take the good from each culture and apply it into my life. There are a lot of good things about western culture too. For example, people's thinking is not too restricted, people are more open.
> 
> ...


I am interested in all culture that make up this wonderful world of ours. Eastern societies have not cornered the market on successful partnerships and attracting men. 

I don't look to eastern culture to learn to captivate the few western men who see superiority there. Why should I. 

As a western woman. I get enough vicarious adoration from the imitators. I hear that its all of the rage for girls to go to plastic surgeons to get their features altered to look western. They seem to crave all things western, including the way our woman dress, wear makeup and behave. Seems they think that they have a lot to learn from us, no?

Western woman go to plastic surgeons to become better selves.

As for overspending by which I assume you mean materialism. Your husband has been feeding you the party line. Clever way to control your spending, those bad materialistic Western woman. 

Don't tell me that eastern woman are not one of the biggest consumers of jewelry, fine shoes, bags and clothing. Some of my students are from Asia.

They are dressed to the nines in designers duds that I would never buy. I saw a $4,000 hand bag for the first time up close this week, the possession of one of my new students.

Speaking of values and materialism, a system of graft and corruption keeps the poor in poverty and the average man a hostage to that mindset.

If you expect to have you palm greased to do your job, what excellent system of values does that follow again?? What happens to the poor people who have no bribe? 

Family values. What is that to you. An obedient wife? We have family values, they are values that suit our culture. I would not be so arrogant as to say that other cultural values are inferior to mine. They are different. I am confident enough in the goodness of my American culture to know that there is more that one way to do a thing well. 

What makes you think there is an absence of family values here? Have you observed this directly or is that another thing your husband tells you that makes you different? He may be feeding you a line.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> Catherine I hear what your saying but really it's best to take with a pinch of salt, if some want to tar all western (more specifically western women) with the same brush that's their choice and not our problem.


It's been sort of a sport on TAM lately.. to tar western woman as undesirable.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I am interested in all culture that make up this wonderful world of ours. Eastern societies have not cornered the market on successful partnerships and attracting men.
> 
> I don't look to eastern culture to learn to captivate the few western men who see superiority there. Why should I.
> 
> ...


You are right about what you said about eastern women. If western men think that all eastern women are all gorgeous, then they are wrong. Vanity is everywhere here, and it's much worse than western women, I think. 

There are good women in western culture, and there are good women in eastern culture. Both cultures have lots of good qualities. But both cultures have bad things. A culture is about people, and people are not perfect, so there isn't a perfect culture. 

When you do find a good woman or a good man, you want her or him to stay the same. Is it possible for them to stay the same? I think it is hard. We have seen so many people change after they get married. Shape changed, attitude changed, and feeling towards each other changed. It's not wrong to hope for the good thing to happen in your life. My opinion now is if you want her or his good qualities to stay, you do your best to impress her or him. 

As spending, my husband actually encourages me to spend more money on clothes. But I view a more simple lifestyle is much more relaxing, I excise self-control ability so I don't get carried away. And by the way, material things don't excite me.


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## celeste (Apr 3, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> EDIT Thread title :
> 
> How do we make sure that she doesn't lose her values?
> 
> ...


Let her be her, and you be the man you told her/showed her you would be. Really I think they only way to help it along is to keep the lines of communication as open as you can. It really boils down to a "want" to succeed rather than a "will." Our sheep society is definitely a let down.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> You have already lost her. The second you thought to control the direction of her growth, you lost. You talk like an old man with no vision just fear of loss. You have nothing to fear, you don't own a 22 yo. She happens to be with you now. You are making designs and plans for a future that is wide open for her. You had your wide open future, you get only one and you don't get to take another's.
> 
> Maybe you can understand it this way. You are almost 40, are you the same person your were at 22? How and why did you change? I believe you woukd say that you chose to be who you are under the influenced by your surroundings, culture, no? No one tried to control the direction of your growth. In fact, it would have been like reaping the wind.
> 
> ...


No one is controlling anyone, don't worry. She actually raised the whole subject first, and she asked me to help her. So everything I'm saying is based on that. 

Do you believe that she is asking me to control her? Who does that? Does that sound to you like something that an intelligent person such as my girlfriend would do?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

that_girl said:


> She is 22. The human brain isn't even fully developed until about 25.
> 
> What someone is/wants before 25 is not what they are/want at 30, 40, or later. The key is to grow together with strong foundations.
> 
> If I married the man I was with at 22, I'd been divorced not long after.


Are you suggesting that I don't take her concerns seriously just because she's only 22? I take my girlfriend very seriously and I would never ignore her or disregard her views like you seem to be suggesting I do. She's a smart young woman who I respect very much and if she says that she doesn't want to be tainted by western culture I respect that.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Poor western women.
> 
> Women from around the world are empowered by what we have done here. The countries that are so prized for their fine values, are some of the worse places in the world for woman and girls.
> 
> ...


Why are you having a go at her? Do you think you're better than her because she's chinese? What gives you the right to look down on others like that?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> So are you saying that everything in the Chinese and Philippine cultures are wonderful and good? I hope you are not because we are not that naïve. There are bad things in those cultures as well. Those things influence the people who live in those countries just as much.


No that's not what she's saying. Why are you being facetious? She's simply pointing out that western culture is not all as rosy as the media paints it to be. There's no need to get so defensive about it. It's not like she's making it up.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What I suggest is that you not try to keep her isolated or control her. Your post does sound like that might be what you are thinking but that will back fire. I know you say that is not your intent. The best thing you can do is to communicate with her. Talk about everything with her. Share her goals and your goals. Share your values. If you see something that upsets you, talk with her. If you see things you like talk with her. And encourage her to do the same.
> 
> You say said somewhere in one of your posts that culture affects everyone. Yes it does. But not everyone in a society is exactly the same.
> 
> ...


I have to correct you. No one is trying to control anyone. She asked me for help, this is her idea. You're not seriously suggesting that I ignore her like she's some silly little kid, are you? I know she's 15 years younger than me but I respect her and I don't understand why you think the age gap is some sort of excuse for me to disregard her.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Western woman go to plastic surgeons to become better selves.


Anybody who thinks that plastic surgery makes someone better is totally missing the point about what self improvement means. Saying that plastic surgery makes you better is just about the most deluded thing I've ever heard. No wonder western values are down the drain. And this is exactly why more western men are opting out of the western dating scene. The women in other cultures are brought up with values which vastly increase their chances of becoming more well rounded individuals and that's why western men are attracted to them. The whole idea that they want a subservient slave is a myth and a strawman.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

greenpearl said:


> You are right about what you said about eastern women. If western men think that all eastern women are all gorgeous, then they are wrong. Vanity is everywhere here, and it's much worse than western women, I think.
> 
> There are good women in western culture, and there are good women in eastern culture. Both cultures have lots of good qualities. But both cultures have bad things. A culture is about people, and people are not perfect, so there isn't a perfect culture.
> 
> ...


Let's not get confused here. No one is saying that all non western women are wonderful, or that all western women are trash. If you really think that, then you haven't been paying attention, and if you don't really think that but you're just saying it, then you're deliberately trying to create a strawman. 

But what I myself am saying is that the values which non western women are brought up with make them far more likely to turn out to be desireable, whereas the values in which western women are brought up with greatly increase the chances of them turning out to be trash. There's nothing wrong with western women as such but their culture brings out the worst in them and makes them undesireable to a lot of men, and that's why western men have been seeking an alternative for quite some time now. But everyone is an individual of course, but your culture largely determines how you will turn out. 

My philosophy is simple : If it don't apply, let it slide. If my criticism of western women doesn't apply to you, then there's nothing to get defensive about and there's no need for you to create strawman arguments (i.e. you just want a servile slave etc).


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Let me take a try here. I'm also married to someone from Asia. I don't even want to read the pages of replies because my guess is that the way you presented the situation in the original post, very few people are understanding what you're trying to say, and a lot of people are off on tangents criticizing what you're saying without understanding it, and have become defensive about the "East vs. west" cultural comparisons. I know this just because I've seen it happen a number of times ... and if I start there, my blood pressure wil boil over at the counterattacks and I'll never get around to answering.

My wife is now 50, and I'm on the doorstep to 50. We have been married for 28 years now. She is from Korea, and I understand that every culture in Asia is independent and different. However; there are parts about her culture that I love. She loves her culture, and doesn't hate the culture I grew up in, either. 

The first thing to understand (and I think you do when I read through) is that you absolutely cannot keep someone from changing. I don't think that's what you were really asking. I think you were asking how to help her keep the positive cultural elements she grew up in. 

I don't know how long the two of you have been together, nor how long you were in her culture, and I bring this up because it sounds like you're either in the honeymoon stages with her culture, or you've adjusted to her culture to the point that when you went back to yours, you're in culture shock in your own culture. Don't worry, I've experienced all the phases of culture shock in both directions, including the first time coming back to the US after being in Korea for 2 1/2 years, one month in, I hated it and wanted SO BADLY to get back to Korea ... but I adjusted back. After those two times, I haven't had that again. But whomever is moving, the first time or two at least, it is normal to go through the phases of honeymoon, then disillusionment, then frustration at your powerlessness to change the culture you are in to what you have come to think of as good. Not everyone adjusts from here to the culture where they live, but my wife and I were ones who have. Now, my wife and I have both lost our anchors to the point that we move frequently and haven't hit the negative parts of culture shock for a long time. (I'm currently living for a time in Shanghai). 

As for what to expect culturally, your wife will need to adjust culturally to live in your culture. However; even if you remain in your culture, you're going to have to adjust culturally to her as well. If you're still in honeymoon phase with her culture, just remember that this will not last ... you will go through the disillusionment and frustration here as well. However; if you go through it and adjust, you'll likely find yourself in a situation much like I'm in where I don't fully fit into the culture where I grew up, and I don't fully fit into the culture where my wife grew up. I like contact with both, though, and I think I feel more of a need to be in contact with my wife's culture than the culture I grew up in, and part of that is comfort with my wife. 

Some other things about her culture that you may need to think about: What happens if her parents are aging and it is her responsibility in her culture to care for them. Are you willing to do this for her? Currently, one of my wife's sisters who is now single and childless and in her 50's is having back trouble to the point of having had surgery. She's alone, and is afraid of being alone and deteriorating like she watched her mother do. She's lonely, and you know, she did something that may have been partly my responsibility, so it is time for me to take up more of my wife's culture where my sis-in-law is concerned. That may mean moving back to Korea (although US taxes would KILL me if I do that - the US is unique in taxing the income of its expats). Whatever the case, I have responsibility now as part of my wife's family just my wife has responsibilities as part of my culture. Just keep in mind that the family culture in the far east very often goes beyond just children, nephews and nieces, and involves needing to help with the aging, too. (I'm not trapped. I love my wife's family, so I'm anxious to help with Sis. It's just something to be aware of.)

I don't think you'll be able to explain to many on here what you mean about the cultural differences. It is likely your wife doesn't want to be too much a part of western culture, but has some elements she likes. If the people who will jump on here had the chance to live in the culture you are trying to describe, they would likely find themselves with similar attitudes to that about your wife's culture ... I'm certain they're displaying a "I don't want to be like that" about that culture currently with very little knowledge of what they are saying ... however; I'm sure they are defensive, too as you described the culture they are comfortable with in terms that tends to raise defensiveness.

My biggest advice is to love your wife and care for her like you would any woman. Enjoy and appreciate the parts of her that you enjoy and it is certain that many of those things are a product of her upbringing just like anybody is a product of their upbringing. Reciprocate with the things she enjoys. Be sure you understand that you are part of her family just like she is part of your family. She will adjust. You adjust, too, and keep her needs in mind, too. It's likely that if you're still together in 28 years (and I hope you are), then you'll look back and realize, like my wife and I have, that you don't fully fit into either culture anymore, but you've developed a culture in your house that is a nice blend of the cultures that produced the two of you. So far as I can tell, that's the best way to do it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> No that's not what she's saying. Why are you being facetious? She's simply pointing out that western culture is not all as rosy as the media paints it to be. There's no need to get so defensive about it. It's not like she's making it up.


Right. Whose to say other cultures and sub-groups may not have ways the prefer to have maintained? The western way is not the right way nor is it the only way. It is good to be aware of the differences.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If this OP is not a troll, there are two possibilities:
a. The gf is indeed immature since she feels the need for help to maintain her core values. Being a mature 22 year old isn't saying much.
b. This is one of those infamous sh*t tests that some men think women set up to weed out the undesirable mates.
Either way, the OP needs a wait and see attitude. Time will tell.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So why hasn't your Western upbringing made you trash, OP, if "your culture largely determines how you will turn out."? Why does it only make Western women "more likely to be trash?"

Also again, if you don't like your culture, and you don't want your GF influenced by a culture you consider "trash" - why aren't you moving to the Philippines with her?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> No one is controlling anyone, don't worry. She actually raised the whole subject first, and she asked me to help her. So everything I'm saying is based on that.
> 
> Do you believe that she is asking me to control her? Who does that? Does that sound to you like something that an intelligent person such as my girlfriend would do?


Edmund, 

This word has been throwing at me for many times. I am used to it. So you need to get used to it. If you say something unpleasant about western culture, they get defensive right away. And the phrases they use against us are " You like to be controlled. Your husband is controlling. You are naive. You are narrow minded." Because they don't like to be controlled. Who likes to be controlled? Things between my husband and me are about mutual respect. 

You have already met a wonderful woman, just cherish her and work together to make your relationship work.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Are you going to answer what other folks did in similar situations to, in your words, deal with this issue?


You seem to have friends in a similar situation that have avoided the "issue" you are facing can you share how they did it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Edmund:

How long have you been dating your girlfriend? How did you meet?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Edmund,
> 
> This word has been throwing at me for many times. I am used to it. So you need to get used to it. If you say something unpleasant about western culture, they get defensive right away. And the phrases they use against us are " You like to be controlled. Your husband is controlling. You are naive. You are narrow minded." Because they don't like to be controlled. Who likes to be controlled? Things between my husband and me are about mutual respect.
> 
> You have already met a wonderful woman, just cherish her and work together to make your relationship work.


The reference was to her age not her ethnicity. 22 yo olds are at the final stage of maturation to full adulthood. They are more open to the influence of others at this stage. 

The OP himself list malleability as one of his gf virtues.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Right. Whose to say other cultures and sub-groups may not have ways the prefer to have maintained? The western way is not the right way nor is it the only way. It is good to be aware of the differences.


Yes and it's amazing how so many in the west automatically assume that the rest of the world is backwards, when all it takes is a little effort and an open mind to see that non western cultures are far better off in many ways, not to mention socially. 

Some cultures really are better than others when it comes to the important things in life. 

The trouble with the west is that their media sells them the idea that they live in the best society in the world, and that everyone else envies them, but that's not true at all. Unfortunately they buy it.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> So why hasn't your Western upbringing made you trash, OP, if "your culture largely determines how you will turn out."? Why does it only make Western women "more likely to be trash?"
> 
> Also again, if you don't like your culture, and you don't want your GF influenced by a culture you consider "trash" - why aren't you moving to the Philippines with her?


Well let's put it this way. Which of these is more common : 

* Western women seeking non western men?
* Western men seeking non western women?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

greenpearl said:


> Edmund,
> 
> This word has been throwing at me for many times. I am used to it. So you need to get used to it. If you say something unpleasant about western culture, they get defensive right away. And the phrases they use against us are " You like to be controlled. Your husband is controlling. You are naive. You are narrow minded." Because they don't like to be controlled. Who likes to be controlled? Things between my husband and me are about mutual respect.
> 
> You have already met a wonderful woman, just cherish her and work together to make your relationship work.


Yes they do seem very defensive. They have pat answers and ready made, automatic assumptions. When they hear "22 years old", "filipina", they automatically have a certain image in their heads and they can't get rid of it. It's interesting to see how far they are prepared to defend their preconceptions no matter how many times the matter is clarified for them.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> The reference was to her age not her ethnicity. 22 yo olds are at the final stage of maturation to full adulthood. They are more open to the influence of others at this stage.
> 
> The OP himself list malleability as one of his gf virtues.


I have just had a look at what I said and I didn't say that. Are you sure it wasn't someone else?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Regardless of the culture, why be so narrow minded. First of all you are worried about something that may not even happen. I will say that if anything the age diffence is a higher risk. But, life is a gamble, no one is guaranteed anything. The best you can do is work on yourself, if you have insecurity fix it. Sometimes we create what we fear the most by letting our insecurities get the best of us. By working on yourself you can guarantee that no matter what happens in life you can overcome it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Why are you having a go at her? Do you think you're better than her because she's chinese? What gives you the right to look down on others like that?


Can you even read? Catherine602 was responding to a Chinese women who looks down her nose at western women and things that she is better than western women. 

Why don’t you say the exact same thing to the person who actually did put down people of another culture and who does actually think that she is better?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Regardless of the culture, why be so narrow minded. First of all you are worried about something that may not even happen. I will say that if anything the age diffence is a higher risk. But, life is a gamble, no one is guaranteed anything. The best you can do is work on yourself, if you have insecurity fix it. Sometimes we create what we fear the most by letting our insecurities get the best of us. By working on yourself you can guarantee that no matter what happens in life you can overcome it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's interesting how you're not asking me to advise my girlfriend to not be narrow minded, to work on herself, and to not be insecure, seeing as this whole thing is her idea.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> No that's not what she's saying. Why are you being facetious? She's simply pointing out that western culture is not all as rosy as the media paints it to be. There's no need to get so defensive about it. It's not like she's making it up.


But for some reason she, and you from all your posts, seem to think that there is something particularly evil/bad about western culture.

Do you use media to define everything? Most people with their heads screwed on straight don't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> What I suggest is that you not try to keep her isolated or control her. Your post does sound like that might be what you are thinking but that will back fire. I know you say that is not your intent. *The best thing you can do is to communicate with her. Talk about everything with her. Share her goals and your goals. Share your values. If you see something that upsets you, talk with her. If you see things you like talk with her. And encourage her to do the same.*
> You say said somewhere in one of your posts that culture affects everyone. Yes it does. But not everyone in a society is exactly the same.
> 
> What people do is to pick and choose where we live, who we let into our lives and what we let into our lives.
> ...





Edmund Falcon said:


> I have to correct you. No one is trying to control anyone. She asked me for help, this is her idea. You're not seriously suggesting that I ignore her like she's some silly little kid, are you? I know she's 15 years younger than me but I respect her and I don't understand why you think the age gap is some sort of excuse for me to disregard her.


You truly must have a problem reading or comprehending. Go back and read the part of my post above that I underlined. See… do you see? I suggested that you communicate with her. I suggested that you each share your goals and values with each other. Now how on earth is that me telling you to ignore her or disregard her?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Can you even read? Catherine602 was responding to a Chinese women who looks down her nose at western women and things that she is better than western women.
> 
> Why don’t you say the exact same thing to the person who actually did put down people of another culture and who does actually think that she is better?


I would be happy to tell off anybody who looks down their nose at an entire culture, and who makes no exceptions. I wouldn't hesitate to do that regardless of where they are from. However in this case she is perfectly justified in her criticism. 

It's funny how you lot can make all sorts of uneducated negative assumptions about non western women, their countries, their way of life, their intelligence, their motivations for wanting to be with western men, and the motivations of western men in wanting to be with them, and yet when someone criticises western culture based on personal experience and being in a position to be able to make a comparison, you can't take it. And that in itself is one of the negative traits of western culture : the assumption, force fed to you by your media, that the west is the best place in the world and the envy of the world.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> But for some reason she, and you from all your posts, seem to think that there is something particularly evil/bad about western culture.
> 
> Do you use media to define everything? Most people with their heads screwed on straight don't.


If you ever get to travel and spend significant amounts of time in other cultures you'll see a huge difference in values and priorities. If you know anyone who is an expat, ask them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> She is 22. The human brain isn't even fully developed until about 25.
> 
> What someone is/wants before 25 is not what they are/want at 30, 40, or later. The key is to grow together with strong foundations.
> 
> If I married the man I was with at 22, I'd been divorced not long after.





Edmund Falcon said:


> Are you suggesting that I don't take her concerns seriously just because she's only 22? I take my girlfriend very seriously and I would never ignore her or disregard her views like you seem to be suggesting I do. She's a smart young woman who I respect very much and if she says that she doesn't want to be tainted by western culture I respect that.


More reading comprehension problems. That_girl is not saying to not take your gf seriously. She’s talking about a fact. A person as young as 22 is going to change so much in the next few years that it’s very unlikely that she will be with you by the time she’s in her last 20’s.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Edmund Falcon said:


> It's interesting how you're not asking me to advise my girlfriend to not be narrow minded, to work on herself, and to not be insecure, seeing as this whole thing is her idea.


When she comes and starts a thread I will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

We can only work in ourselves you need to understand that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Anybody who thinks that plastic surgery makes someone better is totally missing the point about what self improvement means. Saying that plastic surgery makes you better is just about the most deluded thing I've ever heard. No wonder western values are down the drain. And this is exactly why more western men are opting out of the western dating scene. The women in other cultures are brought up with values which vastly increase their chances of becoming more well rounded individuals and that's why western men are attracted to them. The whole idea that they want a subservient slave is a myth and a strawman.


You need to read that over again. If I took statements out of context, I could make Anthony Wiener a statesman. 

Lets stick to what i really said. My statement was to contrast the aim of surgery in the east and the west. You didn't comment on the practice of using plastic surgery to westernize features. Are you outraged about that? 

You should be overjoyed at this stage, your search for a compatible partner is over. Why do you need the "no wonder western men are seeking..."? Do you need the approval of "so many western men" to validate your solution to your problem?

I am certain there are enough positive reasons you selected your gf to focus on those. The need to demonize a large segments of the population makes you seem weak and inadequate. It could be sour grapes, you couldn't make the cut so the team is lousy. 

You failed in your relationship with women in your past. Most other men succeeded. These women were Western and probably close to your age. 

Your solution to your problem is a good one. You found a girl who accepts you the way you are. She is not sensitive to your faults, yet and may never be. 

She is too young and inexperienced to really know what she is taking on by associating with a man as old as you and with your history of failed relationships. 

You are worried and you have reason to be. A 37 yr old man in a relationship with a 22 yr old girl is as uncertain for you as one can get it you are looking for a LTR.

She has many options and opportunities at her age. You don't have so many. You are approaching 40 and you have yet to have a successful LTR. You blame it on outside forces, the women. It is very unlikely that the failure was due to the Western nature of the women. 

If you are operating under that fallacy, your relationship is on shaky ground. Don't mess this up. Face your problems and solve them. If you really care about this girl, become the best man you can be. 

She will have no problem falling deeply in love with a man who knows himself and is sure about where he is headed. Don't engage in talk about the horrors of Western woman. 

These are the real issues. You can dress them up in the east meets west rhetoric but you know that won't help you. Stick to the real issues in your relationship and you will succeed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Anybody who thinks that plastic surgery makes someone better is totally missing the point about what self improvement means. Saying that plastic surgery makes you better is just about the most deluded thing I've ever heard. No wonder western values are down the drain. And this is exactly why more western men are opting out of the western dating scene. The women in other cultures are brought up with values which vastly increase their chances of becoming more well rounded individuals and that's why western men are attracted to them. The whole idea that they want a subservient slave is a myth and a strawman.


Who, besides you, said that they are "a subservient slave"?


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You truly must have a problem reading or comprehending. Go back and read the part of my post above that I underlined. See… do you see? I suggested that you communicate with her. I suggested that you each share your goals and values with each other. Now how on earth is that me telling you to ignore her or disregard her?


Communication is a two way thing. It involves two people listening to each other. What actually happened is that she communicated her concerns to me, and I listened to her, and I said some stuff back to her and she listened too, therefore we both communicated effectively, so there's no need for you to tell me that I have to communicate with her as that is not an issue or a problem. You're just going round in circles clutching at straws. There's no communication problem whatsoever. If you're looking for an angle to use shaming language may I suggest some other way, as you're currently at a dead end.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I can't find the quote now but someone on here asked Edmund something along the lines of:

Think of it this way: Are you the same person now at nearly 40 that you were when you were 22?

That is just it. 

You say you aren't meaning to sound controlling but your entire thread reads that way. 

You want to know how to "make" her stay one way or "make her" not be negatively influenced.

The answer is: YOU CAN'T.

She is no ta doll. She is a real live person who is going to grow, have new experiences, and change throughout her life. Especially if she is displaced from her home country into a Western one. It is inevitable. Does this mean the influences will be all negative? No. It just means t hat she is going to be experiencing a new place, culture, language, food, lifestyle and this is sure to play into her new life experiences which will be involved in her growth into adulthood.

A 22 year old woman was 18 not long ago. She is so very young still. To think she would "stay the same" or that you could 'Cocoon' her from the outside world is stifling and unrealistic. It's also manipulative and controlling.

How long have you guys been involved with eachother?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

_*So, back to my original question, how do we minimize the chances of her becoming "ruined" by UK / US culture? *_


"Ruined?" That is a pretty heavy word to use. 

You say "we" but your thread title says how can *I* make sure she doesn't change/lose her values.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Right. Whose to say other cultures and sub-groups may not have ways the prefer to have maintained? The western way is not the right way nor is it the only way. It is good to be aware of the differences.


No one here is suggesting that his girlfriend, any anyone from any other cultures, should not want to preserve the parts of their own culture that they like.

What we are saying is that she is the one who has to do the major lifting for preserving what she wants.

As we are saying that there is no need to debase, trash western culture and western women as a whole to do this.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Can you even read? Catherine602 was responding to a Chinese women who looks down her nose at western women and things that she is better than western women.
> 
> Why don’t you say the exact same thing to the person who actually did put down people of another culture and who does actually think that she is better?


When did I look down my nose at western women? I said my husband said that he is disappointed with western culture and and most of the western women. It's his opinion, not mine. 

I haven't lived in the western countries, so I really don't know much about your countries and how women there act. But my mother-in-law, a Canadian woman, is also disappointed with a lot of women there. 

The more hostile you are, the less respect I have for you.

And by the way, I am an individual. I belong to neither of the cultures. My personality is shaped by both eastern and western culture.

Did I say I am better than you? Why do you have no confidence? If you are confident that you are better than me, why do you get so nasty?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, I am not really sure what Edmund is looking for in this thread as he seems to counter every single piece of advise/opinion he has been given. He doesn't seem to be accept the fact that people can't change or make people do anything. 

FREE WILL. It's a helluva thing.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Catherine, do you really think you're the first western female to attempt to shame men who like younger, non western women? Of course you're not. Come on, if you're going to try and shame me you should try to at least be more original. 

Let me tell you why it's not even worth you bothering anyway. I have a girlfriend who is willing to do a hell of a lot for me. She's one of those give and take kind of people, she's happy to take what I have to give her and she's happy to give me back in return. It's great. The sex is brilliant. Anytime, anywhere, no hesitation, no drama. She doesn't get defensive, she doesn't demand attention, she doesn't feel entitled to being treated like the queen of sheba, and she's very easy to please. And she doesn't play games, nor is she passive aggressive. Compared to the 30 or so other women that I've been with (a lot of them western) she beats them all hands down. I've seen both types and I know what I prefer. 

So I'm sorry, but I will never go back to western women. By attempting to shame me, you're indirectly trying to deter other men from doing the same but it just doesn't work. There is a trend now, and it's been going for quite some time now, of western men abandoning western women. It's not slowing down, it's increasing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How long have you been dating her?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Edmund Falcon said:


> Yes they do seem very defensive. They have pat answers and ready made, automatic assumptions. When they hear "22 years old", "filipina", they automatically have a certain image in their heads and they can't get rid of it. It's interesting to see how far they are prepared to defend their preconceptions no matter how many times the matter is clarified for them.


The issue of her being 22 is her age... 22 year olds are immature because of incomplete brain development.

Her being "Filipina" has nothing to do with it. Apparently it's you who has the issue with her being "Filipina" because it's you who keeps bringing up cultural things.


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## Edmund Falcon (Aug 6, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I can't find the quote now but someone on here asked Edmund something along the lines of:
> 
> Think of it this way: Are you the same person now at nearly 40 that you were when you were 22?
> 
> ...


You're going round in circles and repeating yourself. It's embarrassing and really it's getting boring. I've already said that no one is controlling anyone.


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