# LD wife and orgasm / intimacy problems



## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Hi 

Not sure if this belongs here or in the counselling forum. Wife and I have been together for 16.5 years, we are both 37. She has never been high sex drive, but there have been times when she has shown decent interest. We have 2 kids, ages 5 and 3. 

Last couple of years before we had kids her interest in sex dropped off so that I was nearly always the one to initiate and most of the time when I would try to initiate she would say she didn't feel like it for some reason or another. I even tested the theory by not initiating and we would go weeks or months without making love. 

Since kids it has been even worse to the point that last year we went 7 months without. In addition our sex life is all one-sided meaning she won't let me stimulate her manually or let me go down on her, won't kiss for extended period, doesn't even feel comfortable for me to see her vagina. She doesn't have a problem giving me oral (as long as I don't ejaculate in her mouth). She doesn't fantasise about sex or romantic thoughts at all. 

When I spoke to her about it last year she initially brushed me off till we had a massive argument about it. This happens quite a bit, I try to talk about this with her in a calm way and she clams up or starts complaining how she's broken, she makes me unhappy, how sex is doesn't work for us and then that feeds into more negative feelings for her about it. I tried to tell her how important it was for me to be able to stimulate her with my mouth and hands and that I wanted to be able to help her orgasm or at least have her experience an orgasm so she "gets" sex a bit better and for us to have it more often. During that discussion I said that I thought the problem was that she doesn't masturbate and has never had an orgasm and that if things are to get better she probably needs to explore that or at least start fantasising. I sent her a bunch of resources on the net to get her thinking about it and see if they help but she said none of them worked for her and she would do her own research (which she didn't as far as I know). 

Her plan was to have a sex night once a week for us to get back into it and hopefully things would improve from there. I agreed and for half the year we were at least making love although she didn't really get any more comfortable with her body. This year started off badly for us - one night while we were making love and changing positions I said I wanted to look at her and she told me I'd spoiled it, we had another argument and I told her we needed professional help. I finally convinced her to see a sex therapist. Before the session she read the website and complained that the therapist's photo reminded her of her mum. Anyway I was hopeful about the session, we went together and discussed the issues. Although she didn't seem happy about it (the whole thing gets her down) she spoke honestly with the therapist and agreed to the therapists plan which was essentially what I had suggested about her learning to orgasm by getting to know her body and learning to masturbate. 

Two and a half weeks later and she had done nothing of what the therapist suggested. When I asked her how she was going with it she said she didn't feel comfortable doing it. When I tried to explain that was the point to build up her comfort with it we ended up having another argument and she said she didn't like the therapist and didn't want to go back or follow her plan and I was putting too much pressure on her asking about it. I told her we could try another therapist and she didn't think that would help because it was unreasonably difficult for her to learn self-pleasure. 

She told me I had a free pass to leave if I make her so unhappy cause I deserve someone who is more suited to me. I got really angry at this, after all we've been through, how understanding I've tried to be and the fact that we have built this life together and she basically tells me to leave because she doesn't want to work through something that she finds a bit difficult. 

We worked through it and she said she will try to do the masturbation thing but she will do it her way in 'baby-steps'. I told her I want to be kept in the loop, she then goes off again saying how I'm putting pressure on her again. I just need to know that there is some progress happening because if she ignores it for months then I want to push back and ensure we go to therapy again, if she refuses to do this then I will definitely be thinking about leaving - I just can't be with someone who cannot put the effort in to making things better. 

I feel like this is something that was ignored for too long. Just before kids I suggested therapy and things improved for a while without actually going to therapy, then kids came along and the issue got sidelined for a while. Now that the kids are older I'm realising this is something that if we don't fix now will define how we will be together in future. 

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Now that we have seen a therapist I want to follow up and keep the momentum, but I don't want to make her feel even worse about sex by pushing the point home too much. Ever since we discussed therapy it's all I can think of and thinking about her having healthy attitudes towards sex. I've read many posts about the MMSL and other guides, but believe me this would have no effect on her, at the moment she would be perfectly happy not to have sex again so me withholding it would suit her fine.

Thanks


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Can-Man said:


> She told me I had a free pass to leave if I make her so unhappy cause I deserve someone who is more suited to me. I got really angry at this, after all we've been through, how understanding I've tried to be and the fact that we have built this life together and she basically tells me to leave because she doesn't want to work through something that she finds a bit difficult.


At least yours gives you BJ's...
I was told the same thing and like you, I fought it... Look at me now! I have just separated from my wife and proceeding with divorce. Marriage is supposed to have a healthy sexual connection, without it makes life not much fun at all.
This tells me she isn't into you any longer and you really do need to take this advise. Take this opportunity to find a woman that does have your sexual pleasure as an importance in their life.

Or you can continue down the route of being the one trying to fix it, all while she doesn't make the effort and you'll find yourself masturbating more and more...resenting her at the same time.

Break yourself free, my fellow sex starved friend...break free!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Just throwing an idea out, there is a supplement named maca root it is great for many things including helping with low libido in females. Look it up, it may be worth it. I would also suggest she talk to her obgyn and see if her hormones are ok. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Been there, done that... She's now my STBXW, and I've been seeing a great woman for about two years. Lo and behold, she actually LIKES we , and even more important, she likes it with ME! Found my second wind at 43 years old! 

My point... Your wife isn't going to change. Your choices are to either accept it and become celibate, accept it and cheat (not advised at all!), or leave. Continuing to fight it will just make you bitter and resentful, and one of the three options will likely be the end result anyway. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I would recommend reading the book No More Mr Nice Guy. This is about control...you need to quit being Mr Nice Guy. This is a two way street you both have to try...you both should be fulfilled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can't micromanage HOW she gets there.
YOU DO have to stop pressuring her.

You are making her feel broken and inadequate. You should be building her up making her feel loved, beautiful and apprecaited.

Then guide her into making a choice to give what she receives in her marriage.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

This isn't "a bit difficult" for her. This is really really big. The fact that you think it is only "a bit" difficult shows that you really don't understand your wife. Women can be preprogrammed with all kinds of negative body issues and anti sex baggage. All our lives we are told we are *****s if we want it, dirty if we do it, bad if we like it and yet we are frigid,selfish, and broken if we DON'T like it or want it. That kind of internal dialogue takes a toll on a person. Add on the fact that statistically, most women have suffered some sort of sexual abuse and its no bloody wonder that so many women have problems with desire.

Be understanding. Don't push or threaten. Remember that you promised for better or worse and try to understand what she may be going through. I would hope that she is willing to work on this for your sake, so don't add any additional baggage to her task.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And there's the problem... She's ok with the way things are. She's not willing to make any effort to change things. If he shuts up, by her standards then HE'S ok with the way things are. It's a big old catch-22. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Just throwing an idea out, there is a supplement named maca root it is great for many things including helping with low libido in females. Look it up, it may be worth it. I would also suggest she talk to her obgyn and see if her hormones are ok. Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks mablenc I'll check maca root out and see if she will get her hormone levels checked


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Hicks and ladyofthelake I have tried being understanding, supportive, kind, complimentary. I've tried discussing it in a calm way to try and improve things. The problem is that now we can't talk about it without her getting angry or feeling hopeless about it. We've tried to fix it ourselves and got pretty much nowhere. I think it's now the point at which we need professional help yet she seems closed off to that. 

If she says she wants to do it at her own pace but I'm not kept in the loop or can't talk to her about it now do I know it's getting addressed? I've tried leaving it up to her before and things didn't change, say didn't do anything because for her it's not a priority. 

With so many negative feelings around it and the issues you both mentioned about societal values how can she "solve" this herself?


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Can-Man said:


> Hicks and ladyofthelake I have tried being understanding, supportive, kind, complimentary. I've tried discussing it in a calm way to try and improve things. The problem is that now we can't talk about it without her getting angry or feeling hopeless about it. We've tried to fix it ourselves and got pretty much nowhere. I think it's now the point at which we need professional help yet she seems closed off to that.
> 
> If she says she wants to do it at her own pace but I'm not kept in the loop or can't talk to her about it now do I know it's getting addressed? I've tried leaving it up to her before and things didn't change, say didn't do anything because for her it's not a priority.
> 
> With so many negative feelings around it and the issues you both mentioned about societal values how can she "solve" this herself?


She is using avoidance as a delay tactic. Wake up while you are still young. She's not being receptive to making it a mutually satisfying marriage/sex life. How much longer are you going to continue to be dissatisfied?


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

I don't know how long I'm willing to wait or even if it is something that can be fixed. Given that we have kids I want to make sure I give it a proper chance, but she has to want to fix it. Her only motivation when we've spoken about it is to keep me happy. That is something I don't get, why she isn't interested in having an orgasm or getting her own pleasure from sex. If she had her own pleasure as motivation then I think we could make better progress. 

Would be interested to hear if any women were in a similar boat (didn't masturbate, hadn't orgasmed, weren't thrilled about sex) and managed to turn this around.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I am in my 40's and when I was much younger the only way my hubby could get me to "O" was oral or with his hand. I didn't "O" during intercourse for the first time until we were married for 7 years. It was a mind thing...I wasn't focusing on what we were doing I was thinking about to many other things. I was brought up very conservative...so I didn't know much other than what my husband taught me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

At least you were happy for him to do oral or manual stimulation. The only way I'm allowed to touch her down there is with my penis during intercourse (I have to put it straight in, not tease or rub her clit) and she doesn't like that lasting too long or it gets too dry or uncomfortable for her


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> This isn't "a bit difficult" for her. This is really really big. The fact that you think it is only "a bit" difficult shows that you really don't understand your wife. Women can be preprogrammed with all kinds of negative body issues and anti sex baggage. All our lives we are told we are *****s if we want it, dirty if we do it, bad if we like it and yet we are frigid,selfish, and broken if we DON'T like it or want it. That kind of internal dialogue takes a toll on a person. Add on the fact that statistically, most women have suffered some sort of sexual abuse and its no bloody wonder that so many women have problems with desire.
> 
> Be understanding. Don't push or threaten. Remember that you promised for better or worse and try to understand what she may be going through. I would hope that she is willing to work on this for your sake, so don't add any additional baggage to her task.



I think the OP has been understanding. I agree that it is a 'really big' to her. I also, think it's fairly common knowledge to most women that sex is a 'really BIG' thing to men...and that marriage is a sexual relationship. So her willingness to get married...but unwillingness to work on it is (seemingly) more a reflection of her lack of concern for the future of this union (with two kids entangled too) than it is the OP being pushy. No sex for over half a year...doesn't seem like he's being overly demanding.

To the OP...well, firstly, I wouldn't dismiss those books NMMNG and MMSL books so off-handedly.

It's not really about you 'holding out' until she breaks...

Basically, you either decide that sex the 'hill you're willing to have your marriage die on"...or not.

And, if you determine that sexlessness isn't a option for you...then both your under lying attitude and outward behavior begin to manifest this position you've settled upon

As long as it's not a condition of marriage...your wife isn't really going to need to have tremendous motivation to change

I don't feel that any of this needs to be done with aggressiveness or abusively...in fact, that's a totally wrong approach

So anyway...consider delving into books like those

Also, if I were you, I'd probably get a hitachi magic wand...ideally for her to try out herself (although, she might not since you gave it to her)....or during sex...if she was amenable...

I feel like it might be a more realistic option (as opposed to oral) if she's really self-conscious and inhibited


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Too dry...that might be part of you problem. If she is not allowing you to turn her on, she will be dry and th as t is very painful. Does she realize not letting you stimulate her is causing her to stay dry and making it uncomfortable....have you tried using lube on her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Thanks for the advice IndiaInk, I will check those books out then. I've also thought about getting a wand after reading a bunch of stuff on dodsonandross and other sites but as you said she may well want nothing to do with it if I get it, whereas if she comes across it herself she might try it. She has mentioned that it drives her nuts (not in a good way) to have her clit touched though which is why i want her to continue seeing a therapist to see if its physical or mental. 

BTW LadyOfTheLake I realise the words "a bit difficult" we're poorly chosen and that it really is a big deal for her. But I would think its less difficult to fix this up than let the relationship fall apart.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense (and I'm not a woman, so take this with a grain of salt). But a Hitachi Magic Wand is NOT the first toy I'd buy for a sexually repressed woman. It's big, scary, intimidating, and I imagine quite noisy. I'd start with something much smaller, like a bullet vibrator. But I suspect for your wife, the best thing to start with would be something cheap, cause I'd expect it won't see much use.

C


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Actually I got her a vibrator early on in our relationship and she never used that so probably not a good idea for the magic wand


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## humdrumbum (Mar 2, 2013)

if shes anything like my wife, she may be repulsed with the whole idea of toys of any sort.


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Too dry...that might be part of you problem. If she is not allowing you to turn her on, she will be dry and th as t is very painful. Does she realize not letting you stimulate her is causing her to stay dry and making it uncomfortable....have you tried using lube on her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes we used to use lube all the time but not for a while. Mind you she usually gets wet by giving me a BJ or kissing for a while but sometimes she wants me to enter her before she is at all wet. She just edges me into her slowly until she gets wet enough. Doesn't make me feel great doing it that way. I've got some lube that I've been using while masturbating lately, might introduce that again.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Sex is not love to a woman. It's because all men want her sexually. So how can sex make her feel loved? 

She gives or shows love through sex. She does not receive it. Ponder that for a while.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Can-Man, I am sorry you are going through this. If your wife will not do what the therapist suggests, you can not force her. It sounds like she went to the therapist with an attitude problem from the git go, so it was pretty much doomed. She has to want to change and right now she does not want to and seems to have no intention of trying. 

She has told you to leave the marriage to get what you need. That's a pretty bold move on her part. IF she really means it (which I am not sure she does), I don't think there is much left of your marriage because she is basically telling you, what you need, you are not going to get from her. 

I would get the books recommended and see if anything in them works for you. But, the words put up or shut up keep coming to mind here. You may want to try giving her a taste of what it will be like if you do divorce by moving out for awhile and make it a condition that she return to therapy with a different attitude if she wants you to come back home. She needs to know you are dead serious about NOT living the way you have. It may serve as the wake up call she needs that you are dead serious, and if not it will let you know she was dead serious and will not meet your needs, ever!!

Good Luck!


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Sex is not love to a woman. It's because all men want her sexually. So how can sex make her feel loved?
> 
> She gives or shows love through sex. She does not receive it. Ponder that for a while.


I know what you are saying and I do show her love in so many ways. Friends and even her siblings have told me more than once she doesn't realise how well I treat her, so it's not that she only gets affection or love from me through sex. It is getting harder for me to be as nice though now that it seems she is willing to give up rather than work through this


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Thanks for the supportive message Mary. What you say has some truth I think, but very difficult to do logistically. I do think it is getting to the point where something like that may be the wake up call that's needed. 

I got a copy of "no more mr nice guy" today so I'll give that a go.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Can-Man said:


> Thanks for the supportive message Mary. What you say has some truth I think, but very difficult to do logistically. I do think it is getting to the point where something like that may be the wake up call that's needed.
> 
> I got a copy of "no more mr nice guy" today so I'll give that a go.


At some point, if you are not happy and are looking to pursue woman that actually will have your sexual desires as a concern, that logistics problem will need to be addressed. Why not go ahead and figure that out, tell her that if she refuses to work on her sexual disfunction issues that you will be moving out and seeking a divorce because sex IS a big part of a healthy marriage.

What I'm saying is that if you do need to leave her, that logistics problem will become your reality. Might as well have a solution for it now, rather than later.


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## vegasruby (Apr 30, 2013)

Can-Man said:


> Since kids it has been even worse to the point that last year we went 7 months without. In addition our sex life is all one-sided meaning she won't let me stimulate her manually or let me go down on her, won't kiss for extended period, doesn't even feel comfortable for me to see her vagina. She doesn't have a problem giving me oral (as long as I don't ejaculate in her mouth). She doesn't fantasise about sex or romantic thoughts at all.


If she doesn't want to masturbate you shouldn't make her. She is fine not having orgasms so why push her to have them. I think you don't have it too bad. She gives you BJ's and allows you to have intercourse. A lot of guys would consider that perfect. (I saw that said on here to another person who was getting what you do)

I don't fantasize either. I gave up any kind of fantasies back when I was in my early 20's. Romantic thoughts are gone too. I have tried reading romance novels but found them out of reality.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

OP you have to decide what you will accept.

You then need to notify you wife in no uncertain terms exactly what it is you need from her sexually.. be graphic.

You then need to give her space and time and not constantly harass her for sex or better sex.

Once you inform her of what it is you need... every discussion from there on out about the issue holds the same message until resolved. Space them out. At the same time listen to her and ask her what she needs from you.

Create an impasse so you both can solve it.

If you find it unacceptable..it is.

One word of warning... you may get less sex than you do now.

The goal is a better sex for life afterwards.


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

vegasruby said:


> She is fine not having orgasms so why push her to have them. I think you don't have it too bad. She gives you BJ's and allows you to have intercourse. A lot of guys would consider that perfect. (I saw that said on here to another person who was getting what you do)


It's unfulfilling having a one-sided sex life. It's unfulfilling not being allowed to touch or pleasure your wife. It's unfulfilling always being the one to initiate or have to ask for a BJ without the possibility of her offering it because she wants the same courtesy. It's unfulfilling feeling like you are on a time limit. I want her to understand the joy that she can get from sex and have motivation to do it for her own pleasure not because she is "allowing" it to keep me happy. If she has her own pleasure as motivation then it will be a more healthy relationship that has more chance of remaining active. 

I want to make her happy in the bedroom rather than feeling like I'm just getting favours from her. I know other people have it worse and I should be happy that we at least have sex, but I want it to be more positive and interactive. If she could orgasm I believe that would change things.


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## Can-Man (Feb 7, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> You then need to notify you wife in no uncertain terms exactly what it is you need from her sexually.. be graphic.
> 
> You then need to give her space and time and not constantly harass her for sex or better sex.


This is where we are at. I've been giving her space. She said she wants to work through it at her pace and not have me bring it up. I haven't for about 6 weeks. We have an agreement to see where we are at in about 6 more weeks. In the meantime we are having scheduled sex night a week and she is receptive to occasional other nights too. 

She doesn't seem to be any less inhibited about me seeing or touching her yet, and certainly won't let me go down on her. I have no idea if she has tried masturbating or fantasising since last discussion. At the moment it's all about building positive associations with sex again.


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## vegasruby (Apr 30, 2013)

Can-Man said:


> It's unfulfilling having a one-sided sex life. It's unfulfilling not being allowed to touch or pleasure your wife. It's unfulfilling always being the one to initiate or have to ask for a BJ without the possibility of her offering it because she wants the same courtesy. It's unfulfilling feeling like you are on a time limit. I want her to understand the joy that she can get from sex and have motivation to do it for her own pleasure not because she is "allowing" it to keep me happy. If she has her own pleasure as motivation then it will be a more healthy relationship that has more chance of remaining active.
> 
> I want to make her happy in the bedroom rather than feeling like I'm just getting favours from her. I know other people have it worse and I should be happy that we at least have sex, but I want it to be more positive and interactive. If she could orgasm I believe that would change things.


I am touched, I receive oral sex, I have orgasms but I don't want sex just because I have these things. It is no guarantee she will be wanting sex if these things are done.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Can-Man,

My wife is the same as yours... 

After 20 years, she never gets wet, she has never stimulated herself, forget fantasizing, on occasion, she will O .This has been going on for our whole relationship. I just accepted it...My bad...

For 17 or so years it was just once a month. After that, I became more aggressive and sex went from 3X a month to 2-3X a week. Sex for me was better...It just wasn't good for her. She never had a real interest. I know she has sex with me because she knows it makes me happy. She would be OK with sex 1X a month or not at all. I even bought her 50 SOG to read. That was comedy for her.
What I want most of all is for her to enjoy it. I've read all the books on marriage and many books suggested on this forum and it had no long lasting effect. 

BTW..sex toys? she would never do that!

Several months ago, I did threaten to leave. Maybe it was one of my weird moments...That helped for a short while. It was for the wrong reason though. I know that sex is for my pleasure. She gets nothing out of it. On occasion, I will push sex 2 nights in a row and OMG! She is like...Again? We just had it last night! I sometimes think she has sex out of fear of me leaving. That may not be true, it's just how she makes me feel.

I know I've said hurtful things to my wife regarding sex and I can't take that back. I just never know how she feels. She will say that she doesn’t think about sex. It's that simple for her. I usually write sexy notes on the mirror or leave a note in her lunch when I make it, so she knows I am interested in sex that night. She needs a warning.

It doesn't matter how romantic I try to be. Nothing gets her excited.

My 2 threads...


We don't say I love you

We have sex 3 times a week, What more do you want?
You don't have to read then. It retells you story. Pretty close anyway.


I feel ya Can-Man


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

IndyTMI said:


> At least yours gives you BJ's...
> I was told the same thing and like you, I fought it... Look at me now! I have just separated from my wife and proceeding with divorce. Marriage is supposed to have a healthy sexual connection, without it makes life not much fun at all.
> This tells me she isn't into you any longer and you really do need to take this advise. Take this opportunity to find a woman that does have your sexual pleasure as an importance in their life.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Mr. OP, Indy speaks the truth, follow him, he's been there, done that.. :smthumbup:


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