# Mutually Abusive Relationship - Can Therapy Help?



## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

Hello everyone!

I am new to the forum, and I am hoping I can get some good advice and input from people who have been through similar situations. Please forgive the length of this post but I want to give as many details as possible. 

My SO and I have been together for a little over 6 years. I am 33 and he is 40. At times throughout the relationship, we have had issues. He has a very unstable background and has been cheated on in all his past relationships. I come from a very emotionally abusive background and witnessed both my parents fight constantly when I was young. My mother is also very controlling, abusive and manipulative. 

That being said, we are now acting out our issues in a vicious cycle with each other that is not getting any better. It reached a point last week where I actually called my father to come help me move out. I am not afraid of physical abuse, but the emotional and mental abuse had gotten to be too much. 

The typical cycle of the fight is this: I confront him with something, usually when I am frustrated. This is not usually something he is done, it is more like a situation that needs fixing (the cat tore one of the screens, something is wrong with the dryer, etc.). He either A. reacts non emotionally to me and we solve the problem together or B. reacts like he is being attacked and then shuts me down with some quick dismissal of the situation (why are you so uptight about it? how did I cause this problem and why are you yelling at me?, etc.). If the latter reaction happens, I then get mad that I am not being heard or that he is not listening to me and I do everything in my power to MAKE him hear me. This includes me yelling at him. If he walks out of the room I will follow him and talk to him until I am blue in the face. He will then at some point lose it with me, scream at me and call me every name in the book, and then leave the house. It should be noted that he has NEVER been physical with me. I, on the other hand, have shoved him, hit him on the shoulder, and thrown things at him. He is VERY verbally abusive with the name calling. 

The last straw was where he told me he wanted me out of his house and out of his life, and then proceeded to tell me what I was doing to him was the equivalent of him spitting on me (he illustrated this by spitting on my feet) and then just saying I was sorry and expecting him to be fine. That was it for me. I said fine, you want me out then I am gone. 

I left, went to stay at my mother in law's house for the night and then went back the next day with my Dad when he was not home to get all of my things. When he came home and saw everything gone, he lost it. Called me, begged me to come home. Asked if my Dad would be willing to talk to both of us and act as mediator. (It should be noted that my Dad and Mom are now divorced and that my Dad went through intense therapy to overcome his issues in the marriage. He is currently going through classes to become a certified counselor to help others who are in his former situation.) 

My Dad listened to both of us for over three hours and came to the conclusion that I am abusing my SO by berating him verbally when I feel like I am not being heard. My SO is abusing me when he is calling me names. He suggested we go to counseling, and both SO and I agreed. We are starting next week. 

Here are my issues:

1. Deep down, I feel like what I have done to my SO is not nearly as bad as what he has done to me. 

2. I feel like my SO does not accept responsibility for his actions ie. "If she didn't just keep pushing me, I would never get to the point of calling her those names". 

These are (I think) going to be the two main things we are really going to have to work on. 

Does anyone have any advice for this?

I will say that we do genuinely love each other and we both do want things to be better. I would also say that not all aspects of the relationship are broken. Neither one of us seeks the other out to abuse them ie. he doesn't just come into the room and say "hey you suck" and I don't just pick a fight to pick a fight. And we do laugh. We laugh so much with each other. Overall I think it's mostly good, we just have one aspect that is unfortunately REALLY bad. 

Again, we both want to work this out. "Just leave him" is not the response I am looking for from anyone. I feel like we do have a good shot with counseling, and I am looking for advice on what I can do to make the counseling as effective as possible. 

Thanks in advance for any imput!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> My Dad listened to both of us for over three hours and came to the conclusion that I am abusing my SO by berating him verbally when I feel like I am not being heard. My SO is abusing me when he is calling me names


I think your Dad is right about both of you. A relationship without respect isn't much of a relationship.

For the record you equally are mistreating one another, it's not you doing something worse or he doing something worse, it's both of you on your worst behavior.

And let's go further. You say you feel he's not accepting responsibility for his actions... what you are saying is that he is responsible for controlling his temper. This is true. But so are YOU. What responsibility are you taking for that? There is such thing as cause and effect. Yelling at him will produce... what? That's right, an equally offensive response (since you both lack self control).

Following him around yelling at him is bullying. If you don't want to get called out of your name, you need to knock it off. Not saying his reaction is right, but you are setting yourself up to be hurt when you do that.

Glad you're going to therapy together. I hope you get some new tools for communicating better.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Life is to short to live in a constant vicious cycle of abuse, of any kind IMO. Usually when two people come from dysfunctional backgrounds to begin with, it makes for an ugly toxic relationship. 

My suggestion, if you both truly want to work on things and unlearn some of these destructive behaviors, then I suggest seeking some therapy. If that is not working or either one of you is not willing to to get some help, then perhaps its time to call it quits.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

PeepBiscuit said:


> Here are my issues:
> 
> 1. Deep down, I feel like what I have done to my SO is not nearly as bad as what he has done to me.
> 
> 2. I feel like my SO does not accept responsibility for his actions ie. "If she didn't just keep pushing me, I would never get to the point of calling her those names".


LOL!!! You both suffer from the same issue! Did you realize that what you wrote in 1, is basically what you blame him in 2?


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

A Bit Much - I agree. I am willing to acknowlege that what I am doing as wrong, but I also don't want him to use that as a get out of jail free card in therapy like "she does this, so I do that". I mean, at the end of the day, he chooses what to say to me. Nothing justifies either of our behaviors. 

Jamison - We are starting counseling ASAP. 

Josh - Yes ! I do realize that! That's why I said I think those are the two things we have to REALLY work on. We both think that what we are doing to the other one is no big deal, and that what the other is doing to us is huge. Neither one of us thinks that OUR OWN behavior is really that bad. 

All - Are there any questions that I could ask a therapist or any topics to bring up that would be beneficial? 

Also, the fallout with my girlfriends has been awful. They all know about the last fight, they know my Dad came up, and now they know we're trying counseling. With the exception of a couple of them, they all think I am Rhianna and he is Chris Brown. A few of them have outright told me I am crazy and just a battered woman who is running back to her abuser. 

It's starting to make me think I AM crazy. Again, he has NEVER been physically abusive with me. Not one single time. I also have never felt threatened in that way. 

I feel like, even if we go to counseling and get help and things change that those friendships will never be the same. Is this something I just have to accept?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

PeepBiscuit said:


> Also, the fallout with my girlfriends has been awful. They all know about the last fight, they know my Dad came up, and now they know we're trying counseling. With the exception of a couple of them, they all think I am Rhianna and he is Chris Brown. A few of them have outright told me I am crazy and just a battered woman who is running back to her abuser.
> 
> It's starting to make me think I AM crazy. Again, he has NEVER been physically abusive with me. Not one single time. I also have never felt threatened in that way.
> 
> I feel like, even if we go to counseling and get help and things change that those friendships will never be the same. Is this something I just have to accept?


This is what happens when you allow your friends to be all up in your business, and your Dad too. I wasn't going to comment before but now I see there are all these other people between you I should say it's not a good idea to do that. 

One thing you should remember when you want to overshare is that you will let things go and forgive once you calm down... you move on and it's a brand new day and you're all in love again. Your friends, your family don't. They don't love him and don't share what you share together. They hear the bad stuff and it stays with them long after you've let it all go.

It's exactly what happened to Chris and Rihanna. See how they got back together? Well not one of us is IN their relationship, we judge what they put out there to us and it looked really bad. At the end of the day though, she forgives him and loves him anyway. Others may not like it, but honestly it's not our business, it's theirs.


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

A Bit Much - Believe me, I am learning that the hard way, unfortunately. In this instance though, I am glad my Dad was there. I don't know that we would have been able to get to this point without him. And also, when I think I am crazy I think, maybe I can't trust myself, and maybe I can't trust my SO, but I can trust the man in my life who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt wants the best for me. 

It's just scary. I know we're both going to probably have to come to terms with a lot of ugly things. I just hope the outcome is good.


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

I feel like a lot of women (this is so sexist, but it is the way I feel) just have a tendency to raise their hackles once they hear the word "abuse" and they say, "that's it, no second chances, you should leave and that's that". 

That's what I mean when I say it makes me think I am crazy. How do you really know you're NOT "that kind of woman"?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

PeepBiscuit said:


> I feel like a lot of women (this is so sexist, but it is the way I feel) just have a tendency to raise their hackles once they hear the word "abuse" and they say, "that's it, no second chances, you should leave and that's that".
> 
> That's what I mean when I say it makes me think I am crazy. How do you really know you're NOT "that kind of woman"?


I think it depends on how long you tolerate that kind of thing. Some people have no tolerance at all for any kind of abuse, and some may tolerate it for awhile in hopes things change.


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

Well, I will say that this is the first time he has acted out like that, and that I have actually LEFT. Who knows, maybe this was the wake up call we both needed. 

Anyone have any actual experience with Marriage Counseling? I seem to be coming across a lot of other threads on here that say for true abusers, MC is pretty ineffective, and that it just gives the abuser more ammo to use against you in the future. Since we both seem to be the abusers here, do we have NO shot of making this work?

It looks pretty discouraging


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PeepBiscuit said:


> The typical cycle of the fight is this: I confront him with something, usually when I am frustrated. This is not usually something he is done, it is more like a situation that needs fixing (the cat tore one of the screens, something is wrong with the dryer, etc.). He either A. reacts non emotionally to me and we solve the problem together or B. reacts like he is being attacked and then shuts me down with some quick dismissal of the situation (why are you so uptight about it? how did I cause this problem and why are you yelling at me?, etc.). If the latter reaction happens, I then get mad that I am not being heard or that he is not listening to me and I do everything in my power to MAKE him hear me. This includes me yelling at him. If he walks out of the room I will follow him and talk to him until I am blue in the face. He will then at some point lose it with me, scream at me and call me every name in the book, and then leave the house. It should be noted that he has NEVER been physical with me. I, on the other hand, have shoved him, hit him on the shoulder, and thrown things at him. He is VERY verbally abusive with the name calling.


I think part of your cycle is that as you state here, you come to him with something that isnt a confrontational issue AS a confrontation.: " I confront him with something, usually when I am frustrated. This is not usually something he is done, it is more like a situation that needs fixing ". Why would you "confront" him about issues like these? It sounds like his defenses immediately go up because you come at him with both guns blazing, instead of like, "hey, can you help me with something?" And NO ONE wants someone following them around screaming their fool head off at them, either. You are lucky he hasnt popped you one for that actually, its probably just a matter of time if you continue. I think you would do well to change your approach to him, ease up. You seem full of a lot of anger and resentment, and what you are doing is counterproductive. I am seeing that YOU are the one being abusive in this situation, and he is responding to that. Responding badly, yes, and that is what HE needs to work on.


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

No Charm - Yikes! I hope he never "pops me one" as you say. That would be the end of things for sure. 

I just come at him frustrated. I am not saying it's right, but that's the truth. I am not trying to confront him, but I can see how he would take that as confrontational. Anyone would. It's easy to get defensive when someone is coming at you like a crazy shrew. 

Yes, I would also agree. I need to work on the approach, and the continuation of the issue, and he needs to work on the response. Same issue, different sides. 

Do you have any experience with this in your personal life? Did counseling help?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I hope he never hits you either! 

In my personal relationships, I have always been the laid back, easy going one, dealing with an angry partner.


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

Ha, I am sure my SO would say that exact same thing! 

All joking aside, I do hope we can make it work.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PeepBiscuit said:


> Ha, I am sure my SO would say that exact same thing!
> 
> All joking aside, I do hope we can make it work.


I think you guys have a great chance, you are both aware that work needs to be done here.  Practice kindness! That would go a long way!


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## PeepBiscuit (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, no charm


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

I agree! If you are willing to work on yourself and he's too, you should make a great couple. Really. It's very rare nowdays.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife and I went to some marriage counseling. I personally didn't find anything going on in the sessions that two calm adults couldn't do on their own, but if folks can't talk without fighting, I'm sure it would be helpful. 
We've also been to some marriage classes where folks learn better communication and negotiation skills. I found the classes to be more helpful for us.
Your goal isn't to find out who's more right or who's more wrong. The relationship isn't working in ways that make you both content so you both need to fix it. The only "win" is to build a relationship you both can live in. 
Now, in the scenario you described, who had the best chance of avoiding or defusing the conflict? That would be you. Whether he spat at your feet or handed you a lollipop, by that point in the argument things were already very heated and unproductive. Speaking to him in accusatory ways about things he had no control over set the conversation on a fast track to a screaming match. It was disrespectful and you couldn't have possibly believed anything good was going to result from you talking to him that way, so you were basically picking a fight...and you got one.
He was wrong for spitting on your feet and for ordering you out of the house in anger. He obviously didn't want you to leave. Threatening divorce, threatening adultery, threatening suicide, telling your partner "get out" are all destructive ways of yelling "shut up!" Spitting at you or on you is assault. It's also childish and disrespectful. 
In a relationship there are no good guys and bad guys there are folks who can get along and folks who can't. There are two winners or there will be two losers.


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