# wow - how to fix this problem?!?! long - sorry!



## gabrielbeth (Oct 1, 2008)

hi everyone, i am new here and definately need some advice big time! i guess i should start off at the beginning. here goes:

i'm nearly 30 and was widowed almost 4 years ago. my late husband and i were married for almost 6 yrs and we have two kids together. even though we were extremely young when met and were only dating 3 months when we got engaged, my parents LOVED AND ADORED him. i mean, my late husband could do no wrong as far as my family was concerned and i agreed. 

fast forward to the present day and i am dating a great guy. we've been seeing each other for 10 mos now and we are pretty sure that will eventuallly marry in a couple of years. my kids luv him, i luv him, he's a wonderful man. he has been divorced for over a year b/c his wife left him when she chose her career over having children. he was crushed, but has moved on. 

from day one of meeting my bf, my parents and he have not gotten along. my parents have been extremely quick to disapprove of him and they don't even know him. they say that they don't know him enough to not like him or to like him, but they say horrible things about him behind his back. they have accused him of beating his ex wife, being abusive in other ways to me, using me for dating and/or sex, we're taking things too fast, he's controlling me and who i see or keep in contact with, say he's never gonna marry me and he's gonna dump me, that he's no good and bad for me. stuff like that. all of which are completely NOT true! my bf has never said anything bad about my mom and dad ever. 

my parents are a bit critical of me anyway and ever since i lost my husband, they have treated me like a complete idiot and a child. it's like they see me as a teenager again or something. my bf is so tired of this that he told me recently that he never wants my parents in his house, that if we get married then he doesn't want anything to do with them, and that if it keeps going the way it is that HE WON'T EVEN MARRY ME AT ALL. it's that much of a deal breaker for him. i keep telling him that he should be a bigger person and just fake being nice, but he's ready to explode on my dad and actually welcomes a confrontation soon. 

what should i do? i don't want to be put in the middle of this b/c i cherish my parents and all they do for me and my kids, but i love my bf too and want a chance at a happy life with him. yikes, this sucks. help! any advice? thanks
gabrielbeth


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

This is a problem. You don't want to have a marriage with this type of conflict looming. Unless things change, I see this potential marriage doomed from the start. Is there any basis for your parents' feelings? For example, is it a small town and gossip at work? Or are there things he has done in front of them that give them doubts?

Is there a member of the clergy you could speak to? If nothing else see a family counselor for advice.

Hope you can get things worked out. You and your children deserve a life filled with happiness.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Trust the man you love and want to marry. It's perfectly normal and natural that the man who loves YOU doesn't want to see you treated poorly by your parents. LET The confrontation happen. Let you parents see that you love this man. Who do you want to live with? your critical, controlling parents or the man who wants to save you from them hurting you. This is a no brainer to me. He doesn't want to be put down by them and he doesn't want you put down by them.

Before there IS a confrontation tell your parents - write them if you have to - that you are sorry they don't approve of your new man, but that you love him and will be making a loving life with him, with or without their approval. Tell them you hope they will come to love him as much as you do. Tell them that you will be happy to see them again when they can be kind and supportive.

Then let them make the next move. Do not see, call, write or have contact with them till they realize you are serious about this new guy, love him and will NOT put up with him being put down by them.


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## Ladyinblue (Sep 18, 2008)

Uggg !!!!!!!!!!! :scratchhead: *Yes you are in a REALLY tough spot!!!! *I can relate to what your boyfriend may be going through and shared a similar situation with my husband's family-(mainly his Mother)
My husband's desire is to live in something resembling a Healthy Family model forced him to make some very difficult decisions. The dynamics of his family of origin more resembled the *Mob Family *model. Everyone has the right and even the obligation before God and their fellow human beings to fight for a Healthy Family!! This means he had to remove the unrepentant and recalcitrant evil doers if there was to exist a Healthy Family. You can't have everything in this life. You have to make choices. If you want a healthy environment for yourself and your own family you are not going to be able to operate by Mob Family rules.(Not that this is the case in your situation) You are certainly not going to achieve a healthy family if you keep the Mob Boss around.In our case, it was my husband's mother.She did not like me from the very start,(although i had no clue why)-i thought she needed to get to know me better.I tried really hard to be polite, and friendly but i couldn't help but always wonder why she disliked me-it really bothered me.After i moved in with my husband i got to see a side of her that frankly, scared the **** outta me.She infamously attempted to damage our marriages and interfere in the upbringing of her grandchildren.(which she wanted to continue doing without my interference) The only problem was that her "grandchildren were spoiled rotten and wild".They needed discipline and structure badly, in order for our marriage to ever work.This was a second marriage for both of us and we wanted to take steps necessary to ensure our success.The fact that we had become a blended family with 5 children didn't make things easy to begin with.His mother only made everything a million times harder.She favoritized and caused divisions between the children.That division was fostered by his mother with lies and with blatantly unfair and favoritizing behavior.The eldest grandson who was her golden child would defend his grandmother and indirectly perpetuate her abuse by finding reasons to blame my husband for his grandmother's actions (loyalty conflicts). As far as i can recall, it began by her belittling my husband in front of his children and myself
(yelling,criticizing him and treating him like a child) I started to understand why my husband's children were so defiant toward my husband.I have lived for thirty-three years now and I can state with absoluteness that I have never met a more controlling person in my life than my husband's mother.My husband simply took her her words and ignored all evidence to the contrary.He can look back at his behaviors starting at age 17 and continuing right up to the total break and see how he took measures to limit her ability to control him. Quite successfully.She constantly chafed at her inability to crack his walls erected to keep her nose out of his business, but she had to maintain her facade of not being controlling, so she chafed quietly.He was able to look back and see how she had her hand in every familial relationship, constantly stirring pots, incessantly creating friction between family members and now she was attempting to push me out of his life. She was sneaky and underhanded which allowed her to proclaim, "just being concerned" while sudden destruction came to anyone in her sphere of influence.It's all about secret things. Its like she created a child that only exists to be an extension of her self. It's about body language. It's about disapproving glances. It's about vocal tone. It's very intimate. And it's very powerful. Everything she did was deniable. There is always a facile excuse or an explanation. Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is "best for you". She only wants to "help you".Many of her put downs are simply by comparison. She’d talk about how wonderful someone else is or what a wonderful job they did on something he'd also done or how highly she thinks of them. The contrast is left up to him. She would let him know that he's no good without saying a word. She'd spoil his pleasure in something by simply congratulating him for it in an angry, envious voice that conveyed how unhappy she was, again, completely deniable. It is impossible to confront someone over their tone of voice, their demeanor or they way they look at you, she could promise terrible punishment without a word. As a result, he was always afraid, always in the wrong, and could never exactly put his finger on why.Because her abusiveness was part of a lifelong campaign of control and because she was so careful to rationalize her abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to other people what was so bad about her. She’s also careful about when and how she engages in her abuses. She’s very secretive, a characteristic of almost all abusers (“Don’t wash our dirty laundry in public!”) and would punish him for telling anyone else what she’s done. The times and locations of her worst abuses were carefully chosen so that no one who might intervene would hear or see her bad behavior, and she would seem like a completely different person in public. She slammed him, but always embed her devaluing nuggets of snide gossip in protestations of concern, love and understanding (“I have always done so much for my son. I always gave him everything he wanted,He seems so angry at me- I just don’t know what I can do for him!”) As a consequence no one believed my husband (“I have to tell you that she always talks about YOU in the most caring way!). Unfortunately even therapists, given the deniable actions of his mother and eager to defend a fellow parent, often jumped to her defense as well, which only reinforced his sense of isolation and helplessness. (“I’m sure she didn’t mean it like that!”)She constantly demean, criticize and denigrate. She lets you know in all sorts of little ways that she thought less of you than she did of his siblings or of other people in general. If he ever complained about mistreatment by someone else, she would take that person’s side even if she didn’t know them at all. She didn’t care about those people or the justice of his complaints. She just wanted to let him know that he's never right.His mother delivered generalized barbs that are almost impossible to rebut (always in a loving, caring tone): “You were always difficult” “You can be very difficult to love” “You never seemed to be able to finish anything” “You were very hard to live with” “You’re always causing trouble” “No one could put up with the things you do.” delivering slams in a sidelong way - for example she’d complain about how “no one” loves her, does anything for her, or cares about her, or she’ll complain that “everyone” is so selfish, when you’re the only person in the room. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.She made him look crazy. If he tried to confront her about something she’d done, she’d tell him that he had “a very vivid imagination” (this is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their abuse) that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or that she has no idea what you’re talking about. She would claim not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten.Your perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that you end up without any confidence in your intuition, your memory or your powers of reasoning. She would employ this method of gaslighting routinely. By either insinuating or telling him outright that he was unstable, otherwise he wouldn’t believe such "ridiculous things" or be so "uncooperative"or was oversensitive,imagining things, hysterical,completely unreasonable,or over-reacting like he always did. Then she'd add that She would talk to him when he calmed down and wasn't so irrational. She even characterized him as being psychotic! Once she constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she’d tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn’t do anything. She has no idea why he's so irrationally angry with her? He's hurt her terribly. She thinks he may need psychotherapy. She loves him very much and would do anything to make him happy, but she just doesn’t know what to do. He keeps pushing her away when all she wants to do is help him.She simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for his obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it’s something fundamentally wrong with him that makes him angry with her, and undermined his credibility with her listeners. She played the role of the doting mother so perfectly (and still does)that no one would ever believe him.She constantly violated his boundaries so he felt like an extension of her.His time was committed without consulting him,(she signed up all 3 of the kids to baseball without even speaking to us about it) She would do these things against our expressed wishes frequently. All of this was done without seeming embarrassment or thought.Her behavior was simply childish, If he ever refused to let her manipulate him into doing something, she would cry that he didn't love her because if he loved her he would do as he wanted. If he hurt her feelings she would aggressively whine to him that he'd be sorry when she’s dead that he didn’t treat her better. These babyish complaints and responses may sound laughable, but was dead serious about them. When he was a child, if he asked her to stop some bad behavior, she would justify it by pointing out something that he did that she felt was comparable, as though the childish behavior of a child is "justification" for the childish behavior of an adult? “Getting even” is a large part of her dealings with him. Anytime he failed to give her the deference, attention or service she felt she deserved, or he thwarted her wishes, she had to show him.She wouldn’t take no for an answer, pushing and arm-twisting and manipulating to get him to give in.She destroyed his first marriage and almost destroyed our relationship.These mothers are like tornadoes: wherever they touch down families are torn apart and wounds are inflicted. My husband was forced to confront his mother and gain back control over his own life to hold our family together. 

All communication between him, his father and siblings is superficial and driven by duty, and they hardly talk to each other at all. In part, his mother fosters dissension between family members because she enjoys the control it gives her. If they all are forced to communicate except through the mother, she can decide what everyone hears. I think she loves the excitement and drama she creates by interfering in his life. Watching people’s lives explode is better than soap operas, especially when you don’t have any empathy for their misery.My poor husband suffered from stomach pains,chest pains headache and nausea for years.It wasn't until he completely regained control over his life that he began to feel better.I can relate to your boyfriend feeling hesitant to not get married,its a very difficult position to be in when the person you love is being tormented by the family and forcing them to choose sides.Because ultimately that's what it will boil down to...its pleasing what your family wants or what you want.

People agonize over the rightness or wrongness of keeping the destructive and tyrannical family member in their family. What you really need to focus on is what kind of family structure are you trying to create for yourself? Are you wanting to live in the Healthy Family model or a Mob Family? This is the decision my husband had to face. He could not live in both. Since you are one human being, you have to make a choice as to where "you" want to live. You can't bi-locate. Neither can your mind. What nobility is there in keeping yourself bound by the laws of the jungle where "might makes right" which the Mob Family model demands? Loyalty to family at the cost of integrity, principle, freedom and human worth does not sanctify your loyalty. Loyalty to principle not personality is what leads to nobility of purpose and character.We were in a war whether or not we were willing to admit it. The Mob Family can not tolerate someone who decides to "get out". So if you are a pacifist, you are sunk. Signs that you are a pacifist would be if you worry about hurting the their feelings, you feel guilty for standing up for your right to make your own decisions, you think you just haven't found the right way to say things so as to convince the "Mob Boss" that their behaviors are not acceptable, you feel that family is everything so it would be wrong for you to do anything which would end up with you cutting off from family, or you are afraid to protect your own children by withholding them from contact from destructive family members because, after all, isn't family everything? If you hold onto these rationalizations you are destined to stay enmeshed with these twisted family dynamics. The war is as good as over. You lose.
If you are someone who is willing to fight, but only to a certain point, then you aren't in this to win and you're screwed too. You have to be willing to take it all the way or you may as well save yourself the headache and not fight at all. If you don't have more determination than they do, then you may as well just roll over now and offer up your tender underbelly.Don't bother to stand up to the your Family unless you're willing to take it all the way. By that, I'm not saying you will absolutely have to end up cutting off from all contact with you. It may not need to go that far depending on you and your ability to deal with them. Some people have the emotional strength to continue some minimal contact with their family members , but it is never without cost. You have to be willing to put up with a certain amount of pain and chaos if you decide to maintain any contact with them. I'm talking about a mindset. Having the mindset that you are no longer going to play by any of the family rules ever again is the only way to successfully engage in this war.This type of Mob family is fearful of a person they can't control. If you decide to live by a different set of "rules and values", they may think you are asserting your "right" to the Mob Boss position of the family. Or, if we look at this in terms of the social structure of pack animals (like dogs), you will be perceived as going for the Alpha position. Depending on the type of person you're dealing with, they may even grant you that position and start looking like they are a milder and gentler version of themselves. This is a ruse designed to buy them the time to reassert their dominance. Hopefully, you have the moral character to not be seduced by this apparent new position of dominance in the family because that would mean you are still playing the Mob Family rules and haven't done anything but beat the them at their own game...for the time being. So, don't engage in this "war" unless you are able to resist being seduced back into their Mob Family when you suddenly find your parents cowering before you.They live by rules and codes that are antithetical in every way to a healthy family dynamic. If you desire to have a healthy family you have to choose between them and your hope for something better. If you want something better...it'll require you armor up and engage in moral warfare.You have decide which you want more. You can never have both.

I'm not saying that this applies to you, its just my personal experience (i know my case is extreme)I don't know what the dynamic is in your family, but i do see some similarities with control,manipulation and emotional blackmail going on here.Just keep your eyes open and see if anything applies to you.I really hope that you can work things out so that you can eventually marry your boyfriend.You deserve to be happy, and nobody should be forced to decide between pleasing their parents and their own happiness.

Good luck,
LAdyINBLUE


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