# Honesty is not always the best policy.



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

My wife claims she wants me to be honest with her, have full disclosure. I changed so much over the past year. No more porn, no more looking at various woman on Facebook, no longer erasing my browsing history. My focus is on my wife and children. My wife finally went back to work, things have gotten back on track. So I figured let's check in with each other since we both are so busy with work and the kids. I wanted assure her that I am not back to my old ways, she has full access to my phone, emails, etc. I did disclosure that one day I looked at a Cinamax after dark movie. Well what followed was 5 hours of arguing. She feels its no different than porn. Asking me to spend hours explaining why I don't believe it is. I tried to be honest with her and it blew up in my face. Not sure I will be so willing to open up to her again. 
Besides that one of my issues with my wife has been in the past is she will put work ahead of anything. Before it was just me, now we have 2 kids its a problem. I address it with her and she blows it off. I just can't understand how one thing I do becomes huge fight but when I tell her to look at what she is doing its not a big deal. We were having such smooth time the last few weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Agree. Been married 21 years and no I don't believe honesty is always the best policy. Sometimes it pays to keep your mouth shut as you just found out.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Lesson learned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

richie33 said:


> I did disclosure that one day I looked at a Cinamax after dark movie. Well what followed was 5 hours of arguing. She feels its no different than porn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's unrealistic and unfair of her to feel that way. Does she _know_ what real porn is, and how it's nothing like anything showing on Cinemax?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> My wife claims she wants me to be honest with her, have full disclosure. I changed so much over the past year. No more porn, no more looking at various woman on Facebook, no longer erasing my browsing history. My focus is on my wife and children. My wife finally went back to work, things have gotten back on track. So I figured let's check in with each other since we both are so busy with work and the kids. I wanted assure her that I am not back to my old ways, she has full access to my phone, emails, etc. I did disclosure that one day I looked at a Cinamax after dark movie. Well what followed was 5 hours of arguing. She feels its no different than porn. Asking me to spend hours explaining why I don't believe it is. I tried to be honest with her and it blew up in my face. Not sure I will be so willing to open up to her again.
> Besides that one of my issues with my wife has been in the past is she will put work ahead of anything. Before it was just me, now we have 2 kids its a problem. I address it with her and she blows it off. I just can't understand how one thing I do becomes huge fight but when I tell her to look at what she is doing its not a big deal. We were having such smooth time the last few weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm answering before I read replies: 

Your wife is right that Cinemax after dark isn't much different than porn. It's like an alcoholic that switches to near beer - it sets up for the next drunk by keeping alcohol a part of his/her life in a small way instead of getting it gone altogether. If porn caused problems in your relationship, get rid of it and be done, not half done.

It sounds like she's got an addiction of her own if her work is interfering with your family life, too. This is a separate issue from the porn, though. Yes, you SHOULD be honest with her, but you also have to find a way to break through her denial about the effect her work is having on your family life. I'm not sure what to advise because I don't have nearly enough info to make any suggestions, but I would encourage you to seek some independent counseling to get help with these issues.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

We spent 6 months in therapy. I will disagree with the Cinamax comment. If its something that was looked at over a month ago and not gone back to I don't see the comparison. If I was looking at porn I would agree, that it could create triggers and I am STAYING very far from. But its not as easy but its something I am standing firm on. Have you seem Spartacus on Cinamax? Every other sceen there is nudity. I don't consider it porn. Some may. There is the problem what one thinks is porn others don't. But I appreciate your input.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Porn is pretty much all explicit movies and books. Even a soap opera to me is soft porn with the sex scenes. On that I agree with your wife Cinemax after dark is porn however there is a vast difference between the kind that causes addiction and a movie like friends with benefits that has nudity in amongst the mostly long story line and plot. 

Had a friend who tried to stop her husband from all things sex including forbidding him from any movie that had nudity in it and yes he had a porn addiction. I think she went too far. But that's just my opinion I'm no porn addict specialist.

One more thing my pastor had a porn addiction and his wife supported him every time he confessed. She didn't brow beat him or argue. She made it so he would always confide in her. That is what is needed here.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Honesty is the best policy.
Own what you do, if you believe it is right. After 10 minutes of arguing, summarize what your position is, and what her position is, and tell her the conversation is now over.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Another thing on the long list of avoidance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't know what movie you watched. I know that CmxAD is not intended to be anything less that a heavy R rating, which could go either way. 

What I said was meant to be taken like this: If a person (anyone) has a sex addiction of any type, and they're trying to be on their best behavior, then they may substitute something they believe to be "like the addiction but not the same" in order to protect their addiction AND be seen as acceptable. 

Now that same person will get very defensive if someone challenges him or her on this behavior. 

Your reply sounded defensive. Shrug. For the record, it's your life. I don't have to live it. You can do whatever you want and if it helps your relationship, great. Doesn't sound to me like your position on the matter is helping yours, but I promise it isn't going to make me lose sleep either way.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

My dad always told me the woman always right...and that sure as hell isn't being honest with them.....but for your own sanity. LOL


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Spartacus on Max is not porn. It does have frequent nudity and sexual situations but so do tons of movies that no one considers porn. Sex sells period and thus it is used in everything. The magazine rack at the local grocery store could be porn in some people's eyes. If someone has a true sex/porn addiction that's one thing. If an adult wants to view adult material with adult themes that is something very different. I'm ranting here a bit but there does seem to be an excessive level of control of one partner over the other that has become accepted when it comes to this topic. More to the point of your post, honest shouldn't be a problem when there is mutual respect and an understanding that part of a relationship is give and take on issues. I'm speaking generally here as I don't know your history and if the issues in your past make this a hot button for her.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe we shouls look at this from the point of view of what's missing and what the OP should Be doing as opposed to not doing.

OP, do you miss out on opportunities to put your children to bed and read to theml to do things around the house; to organise social actitivities for you and the wife.

Is this why she is upset that you max out on Cinemax (sorry,had to say it that way.)


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> Spartacus on Max is not porn. It does have frequent nudity and sexual situations but so do tons of movies that no one considers porn. Sex sells period and thus it is used in everything. The magazine rack at the local grocery store could be porn in some people's eyes. If someone has a true sex/porn addiction that's one thing. If an adult wants to view adult material with adult themes that is something very different. I'm ranting here a bit but there does seem to be an excessive level of control of one partner over the other that has become accepted when it comes to this topic. More to the point of your post, honest shouldn't be a problem when there is mutual respect and an understanding that part of a relationship is give and take on issues. I'm speaking generally here as I don't know your history and if the issues in your past make this a hot button for her.


I agree with you, but he only asked if I'd seen Spartacus, not that it was the movie he watched. I'm thinking it was a different movie that she got mad about. Clearly it was something that at least ONE person (her) thought was pornographic.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Sorry Kathy if you thought I was being dismissive. I didn't mean to. I appreciate your input.
Next time around the time this happened was my wife was one the second day of 13 hour rotation. I had the boys bathed, dressed and asleep. I had the iPad on and it was a brief ten minute look about on Cinamax. But after all said and done I regret being honest with her.
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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Am I right that Cinemax is a movie channel that shows movies that your local cinema down the street once showed? Or is there a porn Cinemax?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Am I right that Cinemax is a movie channel that shows movies that your local cinema down the street once showed? Or is there a porn Cinemax?


It IS a movie channel which airs "regular" movies, but they DO air what some would consider porn, or at the very least soft porn, after a certain time at night.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Your wife sees this as one step closer to you going back to your old ways. She sees it as you faltering. And this is the problem with absolutes. What CAN you watch these days that doesn't have sex and nudity in it? Your agreement should have been that you won't watch hard-core porn but will watch other types of shows that may include "porn".

As for her devoting time to work instead of the family, I think she disconnected from you due to your issues and work became her "other man". You will have to make yourself more attractive to her than work is.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

The work issue has been around a long time. Its something that came back so quickly this time around after being a stay at home mom I thought after the kids it would change.If I owned a business my wife is the 1st person in the world I would hire. She is a extremely hard and dedicated worker. But its something that I thought we addressed in therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mavash. said:


> One more thing my pastor had a porn addiction and his wife supported him every time he confessed. She didn't brow beat him or argue. *She made it so he would always confide in her. That is what is needed here*.


I like this comment, the purpose in coming to each other IN HONESTY is to help each other be accountable...going forth with an effort to change our behaviors...because we do love & want to be better spouses ....But we're human..... we WILL slide back once in a while [email protected]#$%^& A dieter will slip up & eat a big fat chocolate bar....... he didn't sleep with another woman for God sake, I think this could be gotten over...

My attitude towards anything...when another gives their vulnerabilty and honesty to me -when they KNOW it would be so much easier to LIE & save face.... I will NOT abuse that, or make them sorry for bringing that to me...NEVER NEVER NEVER... I may show hurt..I may question, we may talk... but to turn this around an Brow beat...









This has to be the worse reaction a wife can have....she needs to STOP....and realize how this will affect him, it may even further spur him back into the lifestyle he had.... If a woman keeps putting her husband in the dog house....eventually he is going to want to sleep there.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks Simply. I really went to my wife to just talk. That we both have been busy and I just wanted to
let her know I really love her and our marriage. For years I kept
things to myself and it got us nowhere. Last
year with all the fighting was the worst year of my life, that includes watching my brother die in front of me.
The thing is I really love my wife and find her extremely sexy. Will I make mistakes...yes, I am sure I will. But
me going to her I thought was a foot in the right direction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

What is pornography? Since the Supreme Court can't define it legally, then we don't stand much of a chance in this forum.

I believe that in general honesty is a good thing and has to include honesty with yourself. If you are viewing any movie that affects your intimacy with your partner than it is a problem, regardless of the rating. 

As for unconditional honesty....well I'm not sure. All I know is if your wife asks you if her pants make her butt look big, the answer is NO! I don't care if she is knocking lamps over every time she turns around, the answer is NO.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

richie33 said:


> My wife claims she wants me to be honest with her, have full disclosure. I changed so much over the past year. No more porn, no more looking at various woman on Facebook, no longer erasing my browsing history. My focus is on my wife and children. My wife finally went back to work, things have gotten back on track. So I figured let's check in with each other since we both are so busy with work and the kids. I wanted assure her that I am not back to my old ways, she has full access to my phone, emails, etc. I did disclosure that one day I looked at a Cinamax after dark movie. Well what followed was 5 hours of arguing. She feels its no different than porn. Asking me to spend hours explaining why I don't believe it is. I tried to be honest with her and it blew up in my face. Not sure I will be so willing to open up to her again.
> Besides that one of my issues with my wife has been in the past is she will put work ahead of anything. Before it was just me, now we have 2 kids its a problem. I address it with her and she blows it off. I just can't understand how one thing I do becomes huge fight but when I tell her to look at what she is doing its not a big deal. We were having such smooth time the last few weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The long argument is because of your denial. If porn was a problem & you promised no more porn, you broke that promise. Max after dark is soft porn. If you have Max, then you have cable & there are hundreds of other shows that you can choose to watch. I'm with her on this one with a disclaimer that I don't know your full story.

Are you trying to deflect your guilt by saying she puts work ahead of family? What does that mean really? Does she neglect you & your children?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

So Richie, during your ten-minute glimpse, what kinds of scenes were actually on the screen? 

Here's my take on what I am seeing. You're upset that you were honest with her, but it's not your honesty that made her mad. What made HER mad was that you appeared to break your promise to her. 

Being honest does not excuse you from keeping your promises. If you break a promise and deny it, you're only turning one problem into two.

So while you're unhappy that you're dealing with a response you didn't want, you *could* be dealing with a whole lot more anger if you were dishonest and then got found out.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

That's the thing I never made that promise. I knew its a promise that if I failed at would just make matters worse.
For around 5 years my wife chose work and school over our marriage. Our sex life was non existant. We had sex 2 times in two years. 
So after realizing I turned to porn my wife 1st flipped out and then knew we had to change. 
Wife supposed to leave at 8 doesn't get home till after 11. Then will be constantly texting back and forth with fellow employees on her days off. So much so we had to increase her text amounts from 500 to 1000 a month. So yes that takes time away from me and my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

richie33 said:


> Thanks Simply. I really went to my wife to just talk. That we both have been busy and I just wanted to
> let her know I really love her and our marriage. For years I kept
> things to myself and it got us nowhere. Last
> year with all the fighting was the worst year of my life, that includes watching my brother die in front of me.
> ...


And maybe Richie...you spoke too soon on this Pornograghy thing... I don't know your whole story here...if you PUT this over your wife, or if she ignored your needs & you got caught up in it... .if your religious convictions make it a deal breaker... you mentioned something about browsing history, facebook, not sure how -"going over the fence" you were at one time, and how deeply this hurt her. 

I understand you want to kick the porn habit but ...in your heart of hearts... do you feel that is necessary to love your wife.. or she is being too strict on you?? What are your feelings on that? Not hers..but yours...your deep conviction. Are you only trying to please her at this point?? 

Many a husband and wife disagree on this...frankly, it is something to deal with before people marry. 

I am just suggesting this book... if it's something you are having major trouble putting down, feeling she is not understanding YOU this time...and needs to get a clue. It's written by a husband & wife....who was about to divorce over ...what else...PORN!!

But they decided that was too easy...they were bound & determined to hear each other out 1st...I bought the book out of pure curiosity (I believe he gives it up in the end, didn't get that far but it was not because she demanded it - but because it was his own free will to do so- after he felt HEARD...and understood...also hearing her side of things thoroughly). 

Me & mine both enjoy a little Porn together , I would fight with a spouse who didn't allow it -happy I'm not in this situation. When you are on opposite ends...you really need to find common ground and be able to talk about this in a healthy way. 


Love and Pornography: Dealing with Porn and Saving your Relationship:



> Love and Pornography chronicles a couple's struggle to find the openness, honesty and integrity to deal with a subject that is detested by some yet captivating, even compulsive to others. The authors' compassionate nonjudgmental message will defuse the polarized dialogue around porn.
> 
> *Providing the tools to* *understand the needs on both sides,* this ground-breaking approach promotes the insight and awareness necessary to move beyond the conflict and emerge with a relationship stronger, more loving, and more resilient than ever before.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I am goingto order this book. I need a new perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Many a husband and wife disagree on this...frankly, it is something to deal with before people marry.
> 
> :[/url]


:iagree:


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> That's the thing I never made that promise. I knew its a promise that if I failed at would just make matters worse.
> For around 5 years my wife chose work and school over our marriage. Our sex life was non existant. We had sex 2 times in two years.
> So after realizing I turned to porn my wife 1st flipped out and then knew we had to change.
> Wife supposed to leave at 8 doesn't get home till after 11. Then will be constantly texting back and forth with fellow employees on her days off. So much so we had to increase her text amounts from 500 to 1000 a month. So yes that takes time away from me and my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can certainly understand why you might turn to porn if you're not getting sexed up by your wife. I am not trying to make you a bad guy, but I still think you're glossing over a lot. You may not have made a promise explicitly, but I suspect that you implied as much even if it was only by changing the behaviors that you've changed. 

The core issue you two have (on both sides) is that you are not connecting with each other meaningfully. What would happen if you sat your wife down and said, "I want a connected relationship and we don't have one. Are you willing to make our marriage the number one priority in your life?"


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I agree. Our communication is in the toilet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Richie, I don't know your whole history.

It sounds like you are acting like a normal man and your wife is arguing with you for 5 hours.

Act the way you want to act and don't allow yourself to be labeled constatnly wrong.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm wondering what your definition of failure is????

Being the man you want to be, being honest, transparent, not hiding things you've done, admitting when you've made a mistake? 

Dosen't sound like failure to me.

Wife blowing up and arguing with you? Wife in a bad mood? Wife upset??

Dosen't sound like failure to me.

Consider that her reaction is hers. Her problem. Her issue. A reflection of her.

You can't control her.

You shouldn't let her disapproval make you feel like a failure.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your being honest WAS a step in the right direction! Please dont stop being upfront with her, I had a husband who hid things rather than upset me, and it was HELL. Let her know that she runs the risk of alienating you into hiding things again if she is going to go off the deep end when you open up. Like someone else mentioned, you are only human, and we all mess up sometimes. But give her the opportunity I wasnt given and let HER decide how she deals with the truth.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I learn a lot from this site. I read posts and try to apply it to my life. A few weeks ago someone posted about being attracted to a co worker. The responses were to mostly turn to your wife and family. Also admit to your significant other. I brought this up to my wife as a conversation. Our responses were way different. I told her I would want her to tell me and I would process it and we would work it out. That I would handle it. But I would be grateful she trusted me enough to tell me. On the other hand if I were to tell her that I found someone attractive and had say a crush it would be a deal breaker for her. I have a hard time seeing how we are so far apart on our views. For the record I work with all males so this conversation was just that a conversation. Things like this again lead me to believe honesty is not the best policy.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I know there is always a raging debate on here about honesty vs. full disclosure. I think you are referring to full disclosure and I tend to agree with you. You weren't asked a specific question, so is it best to be completely open/honest? I try to evaluate it this way:

Which is worse: 1) tell her up front or 2) don't say anything and she finds out on her own? Understand that although the later may be less likely, it almost ALWAYS is a worse result.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm "brutally honest" my husband says and he doesn't like it.At the same time he says one of my best qualities is how honest I am..

Oh and he is secretive and quite frankly a habitual liar.At least he was honest when he told me one time in a "deeper" conversation that he thinks he learned to lie as a kid...so he wouldn't get in trouble for things he knew were wrong that he did anyway.Im like!!!! OMG!!!! You mean you lie so you don't have to pay consequences for wrong????I never would have guessed THAT was the reason..Hmmm..I totally understand now!Thanks for being honest about that..


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I can relate to your husband Dallas. I grew up as the youngest in a big dis functional family. You learn to survive....not have the spotlight on you. I don't want that for my marriage or children.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you got the 5 hour argument because you're wishy washy about your position on the issue. You need a well formed argument for when shows like CinAD are acceptable and when they are not. Is your wife still mostly denying you sex? I mean, if she's not giving it up AND wants to control your orgasm, that seems like a deal breaker to me. My personal policy is that I'll use porn if I'm not getting sex, but if I turn down actual sex in favor of porn then that is a problem.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

richie33 said:


> I can relate to your husband Dallas. I grew up as the youngest in a big dis functional family. You learn to survive....not have the spotlight on you. I don't want that for my marriage or children.


I understand too..I mean I feel sorry for him.He couldn't "make a mistake" because that meant the dad pretty much beat him.I hate his dad.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

No sex life has been very good the past year. The week this happened my wife was in the mist of working a 5 days in a row 13 hour shift, RN covering for a co workers vacation.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I understand too..I mean I feel sorry for him.He couldn't "make a mistake" because that meant the dad pretty much beat him.I hate his dad.


In my family it was my mother who was the abuser. Verbally not physically.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

I would rather my husband be honest with me even if it sparks an argument. I believe it is essential to open communication.

It seems that you and your wife have different definitions of pornography. You think of pornography as only hard-core. The truth is that soft porn exists as well. So although you may disagree with what she considers porn, she is technically right that "late night cinemax" frequently shows soft porn.

Rather than covering up what you do, which is likely to lead to distrust, why not try establishing clearer guidelines for what constitutes use of pornography in your relationship.

Sure it is likely to be a messy conversation but you just came out of 6 months of therapy. The work you did will go down the tubes if you don't establish clear guidelines.

Honestly, if my husband told me he would not use porn, I would expect that to encompass all of pornography (soft, hard, nude pictures, whatever). Unless he specified exactly what he was willing to refrain from.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

richie33 said:


> In my family it was my mother who was the abuser. Verbally not physically.


((((HUGS))))))

My husbands mother always lied for him to protect him.Sometimes she couldn't..He even told me she helped him learn to lie.Honestly?I don't blame her at the time.I would do the same for my children.But it set the stage...for lying to EVERYONE..and sometimes just for "practice"///

But I blame his dad..I'm sorry hes an ass hole.He should have gotten THERAPY and not been such an SOB...the ripple effect is WOW...watch a rock skip the water..then watch the ripple..Then again I have my issues too..just dealing with a liar (as in my mouth is moving no telling if its truth or ball faced lie) is tricky...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

richie33 said:


> I learn a lot from this site. I read posts and try to apply it to my life. A few weeks ago someone posted about being attracted to a co worker. The responses were to mostly turn to your wife and family. Also admit to your significant other. *I brought this up to my wife as a conversation. Our responses were way different. I told her I would want her to tell me and I would process it and we would work it out. That I would handle it. But I would be grateful she trusted me enough to tell me.* *On the other hand if I were to tell her that I found someone attractive and had say a crush it would be a deal breaker for her. *I have a hard time seeing how we are so far apart on our views. For the record I work with all males so this conversation was just that a conversation. Things like this again lead me to believe honesty is not the best policy.


What I see here is this.. your wife has put a straight jacket on you...and how unfortunate - because of her stubborn deal breakers over basically NOTHING ...but seed issues ...she has put up a wall - to honest free flowing communication... so as communication is further stunted...if she had any sense...she would only blame herself... for leading you in this direction, making your life unbearable..... but of course, she is unlikely to recognize her own hand in anything .... so therefore.. she keeps you silent & under her control. Lovely!

I talked about this dynamic in my Transparency thread >>>  HERE 


> .... A mountain the size of Everest is thrown in here when we are met with an overy sensitive highly offended spouse who will throw their hands up in the air & say 'I am not listening to this, I'm out of here!!" crying betrayal .....before listening. This is very very disheartening. Some likely need counseling dealing specifically with *communication *before true transparency can even be entertained.
> 
> ....I think of a old dusty transparent glass sculpture (this could be the spouse who is stuggling with something) ...and the hearer could either be a hammer -shattering its form to peices ....or a fine linen caring to shine & restore it's beauty again.
> 
> ...


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MrsDavey your right. Our views on what pornography are vastly different. The thing is I never made a promise to never look at anything pornographic. I said it to her directly and in therapy. It's a promise I would most likely fail. The past year it's gone from my life. But can I say a year down the line I won't turn to it again if we fall back into a sexless marriage???? I would like to say I won't because in therapy I learned I need to talk to my wife about my needs not being met. But I don't know what the future 
holds. I know how I feel today. I am doing everything in my power to be a better husband.


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