# Never Loved my wife - going thru emotional trauma



## [email protected]

Here is my story (some people may not like me but i am pouring my heart out here)
I was 23 and my wife was 22 when we got married. Our marriage wasnt a marriage where we loved each other before, we just met and due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement. Neither of us loved each other but none of us has the guts or courage to deny the marriage, there was a lot of emotional pressure from our parents and family members.

I am 31 now and she is 29, as it turns out that after 7 years of marriage and 1 kid, she has fallen in love with me but i have never loved her and still dont love her, i dont know if i ever will.
She is a great human being, very caring and takes care of me and my family pretty well but for some reason i was never attracted to her and dont feel the spark at all. I am just living my routine life, i hate to say this but since i dont love her at all, i always look around for flings online and on chat rooms which makes me very sad and makes me realize that i have a failed marriage. I should be married to a person with whom i can wake up in bed everyday and love to see her everyday.

I still am unsure of what to do, i dont think i will ever be able to give her justice and love her. I spoke to her about spending 6 months away from her to test my bonding with her but now she is getting all emotional and doing everything she can emotionally to stop me. I am also tired of explaining it in the right way to her and my family. 

I am in a fix, please help me here as to what next steps should i take so i can live happily.
I love my kid and will always will, but should i compromise my entire life by living with a person i dont love and do injustice to her as she deserves someone who can love her or should i go away from the marriage?

Anybody in a similar situation, I need strong advise guys. Thank you in advance


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## EleGirl

What are you look for from her and your extended families? Permission?

Do her a favor and leave. It will be hard at first but she will get over it. She will then be able to find someone who loves her.

YOu can do the same.


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## EleGirl

Do you have someone now who you want to be with?

Have you ever been with a woman who you felt love for?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement. Neither of us loved each other but none of us has the guts or courage to deny the marriage, there was a lot of emotional pressure from our parents and family members.


What is different *NOW* that makes you think you will have the guts to stand up to

your family
her family
your wife (now that she loves you)
your child

WHY do you think you're strong enough to leave now? Is there someone else in the picture that you can be strong enough for (another woman)?

I hope you have/get the guts to leave! Everyone should be excited about their marriage, working on getting excited about their marriage, or getting out of their marriage.


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## [email protected]

EleGirl said:


> Do you have someone now who you want to be with?
> 
> Have you ever been with a woman who you felt love for?


Thnx for ur response elegirl..to be honest with you, 7 years is a long time and trust me i have tried every possible way to love her but it never happenned. I do live like a robot carrying out all my responsiblities towards her and kid. 
Yes I do love a girl with whom i would like to spend the rest of my life with (and no i havent had sex with her), its not lust, its love. She is also married and a mother of 2, she loves me too but she doesnt have the courage to end her marriage (thats a entirely different story) but even though i may not be able to marry her, this relationship has made me realize that my marriage is a failed marriage, if i ever loved my wife then i would never even think of going anywhere outside in search for love, it makes me really sad.


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## This is me

"Yes I do love a girl with whom i would like to spend the rest of my life with (and no i havent had sex with her), its not lust, its love. She is also married and a mother of 2, she loves me too but she doesnt have the courage to end her marriage (thats a entirely different story)"

No this is the whole story in my humble opinion.

You have detached emotionally from your wife due to this Emotional Affair you are in. Rewriting history and justifying bad behaviors goes hand in hand with any affair.

First thing you need to do is cut off all communication with the other woman and confess to your wife so she is aware of why her marriage is failing. It is not the story you started with, it is the EA.

You should have no relationships like this while you are married.

IMHO!


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## that_girl

What ethnic background are you and your family? It would make a difference to know...


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## This is me

Instead of " Never Loved my wife - going thru emotional trauma"

It should be titled

"Once Loved my wife - going thru emotional affair" and now believe I never loved her to justify my actions......


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## COguy

Before I read your followup post I was thinking, "This guy met another girl..."

You're problem is that you're in an affair, not that you don't love your wife. Love is an action not a feeling. There isn't a woman on this planet that you can marry where you will "feel" love every day.

You must give up this other woman, tell your wife about her to make it easy on yourself.

Then start working on yourself, and start working on BUILDING your marriage instead of trying to escape it. As Dr. Phil says, you need to earn your way out of marriage. Sounds like you are just being selfish and juvenile and believing in hollywood type romance (which is not real).


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## [email protected]

This is me said:


> Instead of " Never Loved my wife - going thru emotional trauma"
> 
> It should be titled
> 
> "Once Loved my wife - going thru emotional affair" and now believe I never loved her to justify my actions......


Sorry to say but thats really not true..i have never really loved my life all these 7 years, like i said i have tried all possible ways to love her but i am just not able to. yes i have been a good husband in terms of carrying out my responsibilities but never really been happy within with our marriage, this emotional affair came in after a long time which made me realize where i stand with my marriage, i just want to be happy and live my life with the person i really love and i can give complete justice to. that maynot necessarily the person i am having emotional affair with.


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## that_girl

Slow down guys. lol. I'm PMing him and it's a totally different culture, so I believe he didn't love his wife. Ever. And that's ok and to be expected with these situations.

This other woman (with whom he should say goodbye) just proved to him that he doesn't, and never has, loved his wife.

It's sad. I've known other stories like this.


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## This is me

Sorry. Anyone married should not have an affair, in any culture. 

I used to work for a French company where I was told it was acceptable for married men there to have mistresses.

Really?


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## that_girl

I'm not saying he should have an affair. Good god. LISTEN.

I'm saying it is quite possible he never loved his wife and never will.


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## [email protected]

ok every one here is thinking that because i am in an emotional affair i am having that feeling that i have never loved my wife, but really honestly thats not true at all. Even if i am not able to marry this another women who is married and has 2 kids, i would still think that i have never loved my wife.

I am really opening up here.
Ever since the day i have been engaged, i dont really like to be with her, i dont like to spend time with her. whenever she used to go away for few days to her mothers place, i used to feel happy, last year she went out of the country for a month, i was feeling excited about her leaving, not cuz she is nagging or something like that, she is very calm but its cuz i just dont love her, i like to be by myself.
now if i really loved my wife, why would i want her to be away from me, rather i would love to spend time with her, would love to go on a drive with her, would love to talk to her, would like to hold her hand and walk on the streets with her, would like to introduce her to all my friends.......all these are feelings which are just not coming into me, and its been 7 years and they havent come to me at all.

Now thats not normal in a marriage, and no i am not being inspired by a hollywood movie, All these things a normal which most happy couples do, isnt it?


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## This is me

I have a hard time getting past the fact that two marriages are being damaged by an EA. That should stop right away.

From personal experience it is clear that people in these affairs can rewrite the true history of the marriage when they start falling for another, to justify it. Common sense over excuses.


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## [email protected]

This is me said:


> I have a hard time getting past the fact that two marriages are being damaged by an EA. That should stop right away.
> 
> From personal experience it is clear that people in these affairs can rewrite the true history of the marriage when they start falling for another, to justify it. Common sense over excuses.



I do get your point of view and what you're thinking about me. but even i faild to understand one thing, why is the other woman or other man being labelled or termed as the wrong ones, isnt it a possibility that they may be the right ones in your life and it just happens that you have found them now after so many years?


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## COguy

You committed to marrying someone and loving them for the rest of your life, KNOWING that you didn't love them at the time. In essence, you should know better than anyone that love isn't a feeling, it's something that grows as you perform loving acts.

You're shortchanging the process by having an emotional affair with someone else.

There are millions, of people that were in arranged or semi-arranged marriages that end up very happy. They don't get that way by having EAs, or moping around all day about how they'll never love their wife.

What are you DOING to create that bond with your wife?

If you don't want to put in the effort, then save yourself and your wife the agony and just get divorced now. You're not just going to wake up one day and magically be in love. Anymore than I'm going to wake up tomorrow with a six-pack.


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## This is me

I look at my neighbors yard from mine and it always looks so much nicer, until I walk into his yard. Then I see the ruts, weeds and dead spots so much more clearly. 

You may find this other person may not be exactly what you think she is when you share all the responsibilities you already have with your current wife. Its always looks better from a distance. Matter of fact you would likely both have suspicions of each other knowing you were both cheating on your previous spouses.


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## 3Xnocharm

The OP NEVER LOVED HIS WIFE. I think this is the issue here, the EA is a not-surprising side effect of this. He needs to let his wife go regardless if he has feelings (right or wrong!) for another woman. She deserves to find someone who will actually love her, and yes, he deserves to find someone else that he can have a real relationship with as well.


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## turnera

[email protected] said:


> Yes I do love a girl with whom i would like to spend the rest of my life with (and no i havent had sex with her), its not lust, its love. She is also married and a mother of 2, she loves me too but she doesnt have the courage to end her marriage


Ah, now we get the truth. 

You're a cheater and you're justifying it. 

blech.

Just do your wife a favor and divorce her.


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## This is me

I hate the excuse they never loved them. How many years and children does it take to realize this? 


Having spent a couple years at this website this is not the first time someone having an affair has rationalized their actions by this new realization.


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## turnera

It's all in the book. The script. It's called rewriting history.


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## ScaredandUnsure

Or it's called an arranged marriage.


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## that_girl

lol Well, hopefully he PMs y'all to get his real story. I don't know why he didn't post it here, but it makes sense.

But please, keep assuming things and telling him how wrong he is.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Again, I ask:



> What is different *NOW* that makes you think you will have the guts to stand up to
> 
> 
> your family
> her family
> your wife (now that she loves you)
> your child
> WHY do you think you're strong enough to leave now?


Is it because you are older/more experienced with life now?
Is it because, although you KNEW you didn't love your wife when you married her, you realize NOW that you will NEVER love her AND you know what REAL LOVE feels like NOW and are unwilling to live without it?

I hope you *DO* have the guts to get a divorce. You deserve to be happy as does your wife. She will be UNHAPPY with a divorce, but she may find a man who LOVES her, and THAT may more than make up for her current unhappiness.

Peace to you AND your family!


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## DvlsAdvc8

So what's the problem? It should be easy to divorce someone you never loved. I imagine a hell of a lot easier than marrying them in the first place.

Trying to convince yourself? Zing.


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## Hopefull363

Is counseling possible? Is it possible that being forced to marry someone you didn't love caused built up resentment within you? After 7 years of marriage and a child is there not some feelings you have for your wife that you can build on? I know you are from a different culture so I hope there is some kind of marriage counseling for the two of you. If possible get rid of the resentment you must feel and find common ground with your wife. Then start building. Good luck to both of you.


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## Zing

I'm from a different culture... I've had an arranged marriage too, but a successful one... I never loved my husband when I married him, because that's not what arranged marriages are about... I've grown to love him... 
My brother, parents, aunts, uncles, friends - at least 50 different examples - all of them have successful arranged marriages...however, I also realize that it's very very very very very very difficult for people who are not part of that culture to understand that concept...
If you have a lot more to your back-story than you are writing here, do write it out here or pm to get a better answer...if you only write a few statements, others would find it very difficult to understand your situation...

Either way, from where I look at it - I do feel very very very sorry for your wife...

I know many say that divorcing your wife and letting her go would be the best option...however if you are from a part of the world similar to where I come from, you'd realize that divorcees rarely get a second 'happy' chance at settling down (yes its slightly more common today, but still in the rarity) Besides, in my country - divorced men can find partners easier than women can (especially those with children)...she's generally by her own rearing her children on her own...and society is quick to judge...
I hope for this sake you are not from (or at least not living in) this kind of society... 

However, whatever the culture - people would not be very welcoming of a married man falling for another married woman...even if it was an arranged marriage...especially one where your wife has been so loving, giving and kind as you say...I could never imagine doing something like that to my husband ...yes, I've never had the 'butterflies' feeling either since it was an arranged marriage...but, I have to keep looking at the positive in him and my love keeps growing...

Anyway, if you think you've reached your end and do not want to work on this marriage any more and at any cost - at least take the proper route...

Please gently tell your wife the whole truth first...
Give her a chance to settle down with it (if you're not ready at all to work it out)...
Go to counselling if necessary...
Then, tell your family...
Then, plan for a mutual divorce...
Be prepared for the angst/hurt you'd be causing your wife/children/family...be prepared for back-lashes and accept it without retaliating...
Make sure your wife and children are well provided for and well settled before separating forever...


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## that_girl

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So what's the problem? It should be easy to divorce someone you never loved. I imagine a hell of a lot easier than marrying them in the first place.
> 
> Trying to convince yourself? Zing.


Family pressure is different in every culture. He wouldn't have married her to begin with if the parents didn't arrange it.

Geebus.


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## DvlsAdvc8

that_girl said:


> Family pressure is different in every culture. He wouldn't have married her to begin with if the parents didn't arrange it.
> 
> Geebus.


I understand that. He shouldn't have any problems ending the marriage then. What does he want, permission to divorce? He doesn't really single out family as his primary reason for staying... so I'm assuming he thinks he's more willing to stand up to them now than he was in the past.

If you never loved someone in the length of time they've been together, then you shouldn't be with them.

You don't need advice unless you're conflicted.


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## turnera

that_girl said:


> Family pressure is different in every culture. He wouldn't have married her to begin with if the parents didn't arrange it.
> 
> Geebus.


 Not true. I've seen parents expect two people to marry once they meet, while the parents had nothing to do with them meeting. Just that, once they did, they weren't allowed to date anyone else. I've also seen parents who wouldn't allow a young woman to date the guy she really wanted to, because he wasn't in the right profession. They refused to allow her, each time, until she gave in and 'picked' a guy they approved of.


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## Zing

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I understand that. *He shouldn't have any problems ending the marriage then. *What does he want, permission to divorce? He doesn't really single out family as his primary reason for staying... so I'm assuming he thinks he's more willing to stand up to them now than he was in the past.
> 
> *If you never loved someone in the length of time they've been together, then you shouldn't be with them.*
> 
> You don't need advice unless you're conflicted.


Hmmm not really...yes I know its difficult to comprehend...but, let's put it this way... 

How difficult is it for many (if not most) people from the western culture to actually imagine living with someone you like, but don't love... 
It is equally difficult in arranged marriage cultures to divorce a husband/wife (without reasons like abuse/infidelity) ....

If he thought that he would never have been able to settle down for a marriage that was arranged for him, he should have retaliated to begin with...there would have been lots of emotional blackmails...family rebuking him etc to begin with...but they would have eventually conceded (unless he comes from a culture that is extreme in their views against a love marriage, which I don't think he is)

Now though, he would definitely face a lot of wrath...and that would be justified since he agreed to the arranged marriage...and yet 7 years on - is leaving a wife who has only been good to him...
now THIS ^ they would find much more difficult to accept/embrace...


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## that_girl

turnera said:


> Not true. I've seen parents expect two people to marry once they meet, while the parents had nothing to do with them meeting. Just that, once they did, they weren't allowed to date anyone else. I've also seen parents who wouldn't allow a young woman to date the guy she really wanted to, because he wasn't in the right profession. They refused to allow her, each time, until she gave in and 'picked' a guy they approved of.


I was talking about his situation. He PMd me. So, it was true, thanks.


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## Zing

turnera said:


> Not true. I've seen parents expect two people to marry once they meet, while the parents had nothing to do with them meeting. Just that, once they did, they weren't allowed to date anyone else. I've also seen parents who wouldn't allow a young woman to date the guy she really wanted to, because he wasn't in the right profession. They refused to allow her, each time, until she gave in and 'picked' a guy they approved of.


true Turnera...there are different kinds, different families, different scenarios when it comes to arranged marriages...
My family was never accepting of the concept of a love marriage till recently...but now, they are...not because the marriages that had been arranged were unsuccessful but because times are changing...my sister told my parents she liked a boy..he came home and asked for her hand...took a bit of convincing but both sides agreed happily and they got married last year...

There are some examples in my family where the parents would have preferred an arranged marriage but gave in to the child's wish to keep them happy...there is an example where the girl's orthodox parents boycotted the entire wedding since the girl was adamant to marry a (nice) boy of her choice (unheard of in my very close-knit culture since girl's parents are the ones who arrange the wedding in the first place!)...there are examples where parents took a few months/years to come around but finally did...so yes we have all types lol!


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## DvlsAdvc8

Zing said:


> Hmmm not really...yes I know its difficult to comprehend...but, let's put it this way...
> 
> How difficult is it for many (if not most) people from the western culture to actually imagine living with someone you like, but don't love...


Perhaps a bad analogy, but its not difficult. Its an opposite sex friend roomate... which I've had. I thought she was awesome, but I didn't love her... and it wasn't hard to move out when the day came.



Zing said:


> Now though, he would definitely face a lot of wrath...and that would be justified since he agreed to the arranged marriage...and yet 7 years on - is leaving a wife who has only been good to him...
> now THIS ^ they would find much more difficult to accept/embrace...


And rightfully so... the price of not speaking up sooner.

Suck it up. Its time to play the man card. I've learned personally no matter who we are, bills come due, and they must eventually be paid... often with interest.

Still, he doesn't word his posts to make it sound like "how do I deal with my family backlash?" It looks more like he wants someone to convince him he's right for divorcing his wife. That sounds like someone with inner conflict... not fear of external reactions.


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## This is me

Everything heard through the internet is true. Read it on the internet.

I find it interesting when cheaters are considered truthful because they say so.


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## This is me

"...we just met and due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement."

Not how most arranged marriages work.


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## COguy

My biggest problem is that the hypocrisy in this guy's life seems to benefit only him.

He doesn't love a woman at all, but he marries her anyway. That's fine, if that's your cultural thing own it and work towards building a relationship. I completely respect arranged marriages and honestly I think they have a better chance of working out then most western marriages (for the reason that everyone here seems to think that if you don't love someone you never can or never will, or that it can "fade").

BUT

If you're having doubts about that, then don't sleep with this woman, or have kids with her. You can't have one foot in your marriage and one foot out. You can't say you don't love her and never have and never will, but act like you're a family and get all the benefits.

You certainly won't learn to love while you're pining over some other woman. That's certainly not a part of your culture. I would say your sense of love is warped buddy. You can't truly love someone if you are systematically sabotaging their life (this chick is married with kids and you are a force in screwing with her family). You are merely infatuated. Addicted to the chemicals in your brain in the same way a drug addict is.

If you really loved this other girl you'd stop talking to her so she could work on her own family. If you want to start loving your wife, act like it, by not being so damn selfish.


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## Zing

This is me said:


> "...we just met and due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement."
> 
> Not how *most * arranged marriages work.


Not how *some * arranged marriages work... 

Coguy.... spot on...


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## that_girl

We should just say he's a piece of scum and stone him. God knows we never made any mistakes.

Dude. I wonder if he'll come back.


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## COguy

that_girl said:


> We should just say he's a piece of scum and stone him. God knows we never made any mistakes.
> 
> Dude. I wonder if he'll come back.


Better than coddling him and making him feel like he's fortune's fool for all the horrible things in life that keep "happening" to him.

I swear we're raising generations of people that just think life is a magic 8-ball.

This guy's a cake eater. He wants his parents and culture to make his decisions for him, but he still wants to get his rocks off with other married chicks.

I feel bad for his wife and kid.


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## turnera

Do we even know how his wife feels?


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## RClawson

that_girl said:


> We should just say he's a piece of scum and stone him. God knows we never made any mistakes.
> 
> Dude. I wonder if he'll come back.


Come on That Girl there are nothing but living oracles on this site. They always have all the answers. I will never forget sharing my situation and how I was going to approach salvaging my marriage and then finding out how "wrong" I was because 90% of the effn genuises that post here said I was. Oh and by the way the plan I put in place worked. My wife and I are doing better than we have in years. 

I am conflicted by the OP's story. I truly believe in love being a verb and that marriages take a great deal of heavy lifting. I have no sympathy for his EA and that needs to stop yesterday. The closest thing I can compare this to is my brothers situation. He married when he was 22 and his wife was 19.They got pregnant and decided to do the "honorable" thing. Now he is 53 and his wife is about 17. If she was my wife I would have left or blown my brains out long ago. There was a time I was convinced he was going to leave but he did not. He hung on even when he caught her having an EA. I know he loves her deeply. 

I remember when they lived with my parents and I was still at home. When she ate toast in the morning it bugged me. Everything she did irritated me. If you are in an arranged marriage to someone that you do not find attractive after 7 years that has got to be hell. Again having an EA with a married woman is not the correct response. The OP needs to man up finally and determine to leave or buy in if he does not have the stones to follow through.


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## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> Here is my story (some people may not like me but i am pouring my heart out here)
> I was 23 and my wife was 22 when we got married. Our marriage wasnt a marriage where we loved each other before, we just met and due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement. Neither of us loved each other but none of us has the guts or courage to deny the marriage, there was a lot of emotional pressure from our parents and family members.
> 
> I am 31 now and she is 29, as it turns out that after 7 years of marriage and 1 kid, she has fallen in love with me but i have never loved her and still dont love her, i dont know if i ever will.
> She is a great human being, very caring and takes care of me and my family pretty well but for some reason i was never attracted to her and dont feel the spark at all. I am just living my routine life, i hate to say this but since i dont love her at all, i always look around for flings online and on chat rooms which makes me very sad and makes me realize that i have a failed marriage. I should be married to a person with whom i can wake up in bed everyday and love to see her everyday.
> 
> I still am unsure of what to do, i dont think i will ever be able to give her justice and love her. I spoke to her about spending 6 months away from her to test my bonding with her but now she is getting all emotional and doing everything she can emotionally to stop me. I am also tired of explaining it in the right way to her and my family.
> 
> I am in a fix, please help me here as to what next steps should i take so i can live happily.
> I love my kid and will always will, but should i compromise my entire life by living with a person i dont love and do injustice to her as she deserves someone who can love her or should i go away from the marriage?
> 
> Anybody in a similar situation, I need strong advise guys. Thank you in advance


Dude you two are still young. You know what the only option is. Divorce.

Now the issue is do you have the guts to do what's best for you, AND her. Because this isn't all about you. She might not realize this, but she deserves to experience a marriage with somebody who actually wants to spend the rest of their life with her.


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## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> Dude you two are still young. You know what the only option is. Divorce.
> 
> Now the issue is do you have the guts to do what's best for you, AND her. Because this isn't all about you. She might not realize this, but she deserves to experience a marriage with somebody who actually wants to spend the rest of their life with her.


This is exactly what i want, i want her to be happy and settle down as well...also i am not shunning my responsibility for my daughter, i will always be there for her.
Honestly speaking i dont have the guts to break this out to her, she is a very emotional person and i dont know how her reaction would be that i want to get a divorce.
The most difficult part is, even though i dont love her, i do care for her and dont want her to be sad and unhappy.


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## TeaLeaves4

turnera said:


> Not true. I've seen parents expect two people to marry once they meet, while the parents had nothing to do with them meeting. Just that, once they did, they weren't allowed to date anyone else. I've also seen parents who wouldn't allow a young woman to date the guy she really wanted to, because he wasn't in the right profession. They refused to allow her, each time, until she gave in and 'picked' a guy they approved of.


How is that not believable? It happens a lot in other cultures.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected]

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Perhaps a bad analogy, but its not difficult. Its an opposite sex friend roomate... which I've had. I thought she was awesome, but I didn't love her... and it wasn't hard to move out when the day came.
> 
> 
> 
> And rightfully so... the price of not speaking up sooner.
> 
> Suck it up. Its time to play the man card. I've learned personally no matter who we are, bills come due, and they must eventually be paid... often with interest.
> 
> Still, he doesn't word his posts to make it sound like "how do I deal with my family backlash?" It looks more like he wants someone to convince him he's right for divorcing his wife. That sounds like someone with inner conflict... not fear of external reactions.


Well my greatest inner conflict is family backlash and emotional disturbance to my wife, when i do break this out if i do to my family and her and her family, i am really afraid of the reactions that might cause....also i want her to be happy and settled in her life and as far as my daughter is concerned, i will definitely be sharing all the responsibilities....the main reason i am writing to you guys here is because i have a big inner conflict in me and need help in figuring out how to handle this situation with care


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## TeaLeaves4

that_girl said:


> We should just say he's a piece of scum and stone him. God knows we never made any mistakes.
> 
> Dude. I wonder if he'll come back.


I agree. And I'd like to say that YES, even in western cultures some people marry and don't love their spouse. For many reasons. Sometimes it's that they think they love them for a time but realize they don't. Sometimes it's family pressure, or it could be financial reasons. Why is that so hard to believe? I don't think it's a fact that WS's are always rewriting history when they say that, like many people on this forum like to insist. And they stick it out, and may try to make things work for years. 

I'm not saying its right, but sometimes people find themselves in these situations, realize it was a mistake when the love never develops, but don't know how to fix it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected]

Zing said:


> Hmmm not really...yes I know its difficult to comprehend...but, let's put it this way...
> 
> How difficult is it for many (if not most) people from the western culture to actually imagine living with someone you like, but don't love...
> It is equally difficult in arranged marriage cultures to divorce a husband/wife (without reasons like abuse/infidelity) ....
> 
> If he thought that he would never have been able to settle down for a marriage that was arranged for him, he should have retaliated to begin with...there would have been lots of emotional blackmails...family rebuking him etc to begin with...but they would have eventually conceded (unless he comes from a culture that is extreme in their views against a love marriage, which I don't think he is)
> 
> Now though, he would definitely face a lot of wrath...and that would be justified since he agreed to the arranged marriage...and yet 7 years on - is leaving a wife who has only been good to him...
> now THIS ^ they would find much more difficult to accept/embrace...


yes you are absolutely right, i will have to face a lot of hardships myself from my family and hers family as well...I think i should have mentioned the family in my original post. I know 7 years is a long time but trust me i have tried every possible way to love her but still am not able to. Because of the conflict and confusion on what should i do...i am seeking advice from you guys here....


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## [email protected]

3Xnocharm said:


> The OP NEVER LOVED HIS WIFE. I think this is the issue here, the EA is a not-surprising side effect of this. He needs to let his wife go regardless if he has feelings (right or wrong!) for another woman. She deserves to find someone who will actually love her, and yes, he deserves to find someone else that he can have a real relationship with as well.


Thnx..i really do not know how to take this step...i am really scared of the emotional hardships that her and my family members will have to go thru because of this one decision...but then again i also do not think that continuing our relationship without love for both of us would be a good decision for our future...m really confused


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## [email protected]

TeaLeaves4 said:


> I agree. And I'd like to say that YES, even in western cultures some people marry and don't love their spouse. For many reasons. Sometimes it's that they think they love them for a time but realize they don't. Sometimes it's family pressure, or it could be financial reasons. Why is that so hard to believe? I don't think it's a fact that WS's are always rewriting history when they say that, like many people on this forum like to insist. And they stick it out, and may try to make things work for years.
> 
> I'm not saying its right, but sometimes people find themselves in these situations, realize it was a mistake when the love never develops, but don't know how to fix it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that is exactly my problem. I do not know how to fix this and really going thru a lot of emotional pain


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## EleGirl

[email protected] said:


> This is exactly what i want, i want her to be happy and settle down as well...also i am not shunning my responsibility for my daughter, i will always be there for her.
> Honestly speaking i dont have the guts to break this out to her, she is a very emotional person and i dont know how her reaction would be that i want to get a divorce.
> The most difficult part is, even though i dont love her, i do care for her and dont want her to be sad and unhappy.


How will the families and your society react to her if you divorce her. In some places a divorced woman is looked down on regardless if she is at fault for the divorce or not.


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## [email protected]

EleGirl said:


> How will the families and your society react to her if you divorce her. In some places a divorced woman is looked down on regardless if she is at fault for the divorce or not.


Hi Elegirl..this is exactly what i am worried about...its the same concept in my culture and that is what bothers me and m afraid to take the futher step as this issue scares me for my wife


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## EleGirl

[email protected] said:


> Hi Elegirl..this is exactly what i am worried about...its the same concept in my culture and that is what bothers me and m afraid to take the futher step as this issue scares me for my wife


If this is the case in your culture, then it will taint your daughters as well. I've lived in a culture like this.

You are getting advice here mostly from people who live in places like the USA where divorce is very common. And most do not understand the ramifications it will have on you, your wife and your daughters. This is not a light matter.

Surely you know that you cannot have a relationship with this woman you feel you are in love with. So if you leave your wife you will be alone and shamed.. your whole family will be.

That's a high price to pay. I think that you do love your wife. The way you talk about her shows it. but it's not that hot, passionate love that a person gets when they first fall in love.


If you are in a relationship, know that love never dies.

The only thing that dies is one or both partner’s energy to create a loving environment. We hear poeple who are in affairs say, “I love my husband but I’m not ‘in love’ with my spouse anymore.” 

Well “I hope not!”

If a couple is in a long-term married relationship and they expect it to feel like the delusion of early romantic love, they will never be happy. 

Love is not a feeling. Romantic love feels wonderful when it's happening but it dies down to a more mature love. Love is a verb... it's a commitment to always put your spouse first, to care for her, to show her affection and appreciation for all that she has done.

Just about every married person goes through a time when they doubt their love and feelings for their spouse.. yes even people who start out madly in love for each other. The odd thing is that there is a very common time for this to happen. It's called the "7 year itch". In, or about, the 7th year of marriage many people experience the feeling of not being in love with their spouse. Those who work through the one or two years of discontent usually find a much richer love on the other side. 

Don't know what it is about people and the 7-year time clock in marriages but it happens all the time.


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## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> This is exactly what i want, i want her to be happy and settle down as well...also i am not shunning my responsibility for my daughter, i will always be there for her.
> *Honestly speaking i dont have the guts to break this out to her*, she is a very emotional person and i dont know how her reaction would be that i want to get a divorce.
> The most difficult part is, even though i dont love her, i do care for her and dont want her to be sad and unhappy.


Well there is your answer. You'll remain unhappy in this marriage until such a time where it becomes so unbearable that you leave, or act out in other ways, or you stay, and make this your norm.


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## [email protected]

EleGirl said:


> If this is the case in your culture, then it will taint your daughters as well. I've lived in a culture like this.
> 
> You are getting advice here mostly from people who live in places like the USA where divorce is very common. And most do not understand the ramifications it will have on you, your wife and your daughters. This is not a light matter.
> 
> Surely you know that you cannot have a relationship with this woman you feel you are in love with. So if you leave your wife you will be alone and shamed.. your whole family will be.
> 
> That's a high price to pay. I think that you do love your wife. The way you talk about her shows it. but it's not that hot, passionate love that a person gets when they first fall in love.
> 
> 
> If you are in a relationship, know that love never dies.
> 
> The only thing that dies is one or both partner’s energy to create a loving environment. We hear poeple who are in affairs say, “I love my husband but I’m not ‘in love’ with my spouse anymore.”
> 
> Well “I hope not!”
> 
> If a couple is in a long-term married relationship and they expect it to feel like the delusion of early romantic love, they will never be happy.
> 
> Love is not a feeling. Romantic love feels wonderful when it's happening but it dies down to a more mature love. Love is a verb... it's a commitment to always put your spouse first, to care for her, to show her affection and appreciation for all that she has done.
> 
> Just about every married person goes through a time when they doubt their love and feelings for their spouse.. yes even people who start out madly in love for each other. The odd thing is that there is a very common time for this to happen. It's called the "7 year itch". In, or about, the 7th year of marriage many people experience the feeling of not being in love with their spouse. Those who work through the one or two years of discontent usually find a much richer love on the other side.
> 
> Don't know what it is about people and the 7-year time clock in marriages but it happens all the time.


Thanks for your reply elegirl...we live in New york so the culture thing does affect but not as much if we would have lived in our ethnic native. But yes my decision would definately affect both families and her. 
Well you said the romantic relationship dies down after 7 year time clock...but atleast it lasts for the first 7 years...in my case 7 years have been a routine thing...i did not even experience the joy of the first 7 years of marriage...
I am not thinking about the other woman anymore...although i would have liked it, i know there is no future for us.

I know i am being selfish at this point of time, and my innerself has asked me that do i really want to compromise my whole life living like this or do i want to do something about it...there will be initial pain for few months but when everything settles down would there be better days for both of us.

I know there are lot of ifs..and thats my inner conflict..and this conflict is causing me emotional pain.


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## jaquen

I do believe most of us understand that there are cultural, social, and familial pressures to remain married in many circles. Even within the US, there are people form backgrounds where divorce is severely frowned upon.

This man does not love his wife. This man, according to him, has never loved his wife. This is not a case of a man who was in love, and then that love waned with time. Under those conditions he could work to get that "loving feeling" back, and have a realistic shot at a happy marriage.

This poster sounds in misery. I equate this to a gay man, or woman, getting married to a member of the opposite sex. Perhaps a feeling of companionship would be fine for years during the marriage, but at some point the desire to live an authentic existence would begin to suffocate their world, and leave them in angst and misery. This is exactly how the OP is coming off to me. He is still a relatively young man, but that time will be up in a few years. So far he's spent his prime youthful years in a relationship that has NONE of the joys, passion, and highs of young love. How awful to spend day in, and day out, with a woman who you are not in love with, in a situation where you are drowning alive.

I have utter empathy for the OP. I can not relate as far as being with someone you are not in love with, but I can relate to the miserable feelings of longing that come from being stuck in a situation that does not feel right, fulfilling, or true at all.

He is terrified that he will throw his entire life away, having never experienced the joys of truly being in love. And he is right to be scared.

I hope he does not waste his life all because he buckled under the pressures of family to marry somebody he never should have wed in the first place. He made a mistake. He should not be expected to suffer for the rest of his natural life because of one mistake.


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## turnera

[email protected] said:


> Thnx..i really do not know how to take this step...i am really scared of the emotional hardships that her and my family members will have to go thru because of this one decision...but then again i also do not think that continuing our relationship without love for both of us would be a good decision for our future...m really confused


 I think if you just sit them down and explain it like you do here, they will have to admit you have a point. And that you're better off not wasting both of your lives in the wrong marriage. 

That said, if you do this, and then go running to the OW's arms, I will be VERY VERY disappointed in you.


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## Zing

jaquen said:


> I do believe most of us understand that there are cultural, social, and familial pressures to remain married in many circles. Even within the US, there are people form backgrounds where divorce is severely frowned upon.
> 
> This man does not love his wife. This man, according to him, has never loved his wife. This is not a case of a man who was in love, and then that love waned with time. Under those conditions he could work to get that "loving feeling" back, and have a realistic shot at a happy marriage.


Jaquen, I totally understand you not accepting the norms of an arranged marriage, but your statement here suggests you not understanding the very concept of it...very few if any couples in an arranged marriage get married because they loved the other partner (forget 'in love')...if they did love each other then its a love marriage, not an arranged one... 
The very basis of an arranged marriage is that you let the elders in your home find a match for you....parents enquire around...relatives make suggestions...your families subtly do all the background checks on the person and his/her family (i.e. that the immediate family and the boy/girl in question is of sound mental/financial/educational and physical standing and that the looks/age etc are compatible etc...) 
Then, the two get introduced....the boy+girl spend some time talking to each other (in my case a day... in some cases a few weeks...sometimes months) they discuss preferences/desires/priorities/backgrounds/ aims/ambitions/loyalties etc and then give the nod if they think they're compatible.... parents arrange the wedding...the couple rarely if ever wait to fall in love when they're wed... the love grows during the period of marriage... 



jaquen said:


> I have utter empathy for the OP. I can not relate as far as being with someone you are not in love with, but I can relate to the miserable feelings of longing that come from being stuck in a situation that does not feel right, fulfilling, or true at all.
> 
> *I hope he does not waste his life all because he buckled under the pressures of family to marry somebody he never should have wed in the first place. He made a mistake. He should not be expected to suffer for the rest of his natural life because of one mistake*.


If that is the case he should have never agreed to an arranged marriage... or if he had the chance to discuss stuff with her before the wedding and realized she wasn't his type, he could have called it off then...

You feel empathetic towards the OP? Can you imagine what the girl is going through... she stayed dutiful to her parent's wishes...married a guy as per her family's wishes who'd given his own consent too...then grown to love and fall in love with him..stay faithful...basically, she's never shown qualities that one wouldn't want in a wife (surmising this from the OP's post) and now her husband states that he's no longer interested and tired of trying...
That would crush her... its not like a person giving the 'I'm no longer in love with you' speech because the whole scenario is different...they were never in love to start with....its basically him saying..'I never loved you..will never love you and can never give to this arranged marriage what you could...I thought wrong, made a mistake and have now ruined your entire life..sorry for that...'

So as per your statement, he goes off and has every chance of finding love again... (this is a male chauvinistic society btw) ...so, what about her..yes her husband never really loved her...but she at least had his male friendship & companionship, someone to sleep next to every night...someone to hold hands with every now and again...someone to go to the movies with...a form of male security...he was her financial support...the children have a father figure...someone she can be intimate with at least once in a while... All that will be snatched from her for no fault of her's...

After this ends, do you think she is just allowed to go off and start hanging out with her girl-friends in malls, clubs/bars in order to meet potential men to date (like its done in the west)...this is a different society where even the concept of dating between singles isn't very common...can you imagine how many would be interested in dating/getting to know a married woman... and that too one who has a kid... if and when SHE does try to develop male friends, she'd be talked ill upon... if anything, THE MAN would have to approach her and her family and ask for her hand in marriage...her chances of finding love and a genuine remarriage are very minimal... besides, since she has a kid from this marriage - she'll still be somewhat tied to her current in-laws...and they'd have to approve too (which I hope they do seeing that it was their son's decision to end the marriage)...Yes yes its all different there

Additionally, there'll always be hushed lingering questions going around in the judgemental society 'What was wrong with her, that the man divorced her' 'Wonder what did she do...' 'Wonder if she is physically/mentally all right?' No no they wouldn't torture or stone her....far from it...in fact, divorces are more common today than say 10 years ago, but still she would find hurdles every time she tries being accepted back into society...(there will always be exceptions)

Not to mention, the security issues that are often encountered with a lone lady living by herself in such a community and how some men could take advantage of that...(obviously, all this would not come into play if she goes on to live with her family and they stay strongly supportive all through!) but this society still considers an unmarried/divorced daughter a bit of a burden on ageing parents.. 

Besides, in a country where most men have their parents finding them virginal young (educated?) brides in their own communities as soon as they get their jobs - why would they even bother trying to fight their families and marry a divorcee with a kid...

A very rare scenario would have to be a man who has genuine intent, falls for the lady strongly enough to go ahead with it, has the guts to approach his family and go against them and stay loyal to his promise to her all through...

Today, in modern cities divorcees do lead independent lives and some do find true love again...most cases would have to be if the girl is lucky enough to work in a large office with forward-thinking men... but again, this is a very small fraction of the entire scenario...whatever it is, the path will be very very very difficult for her henceforth...I really really feel sorry for her...

My intent of the message was not to say that the OP should live it out his entire life like this... my intent was to make people see how its easier said than done (and why possibly even the poster himself would find it quite difficult to opt out)...besides, my long explanation was also to see how badly the girl has it...


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## jaquen

Zing said:


> Jaquen, I totally understand you not accepting the norms of an arranged marriage, but your statement here suggests you not understanding the very concept of it...


The OP never said he was in an "arranged marriage". Other posters have supposed that he was, but he never stated so.

He said that he felt cultural "pressure" to marry this woman. He didn't specify what the specifics of that pressure was, or why his family wanted him to. Plenty of people around the world run into pressure to marry for various reasons without it being a full blown "arranged marriage". People feel pressured in many circles to marry if the woman gets pregnant before marriage. My own grandmother was pressured by those around her to stay with an abusive rapist, but they definitely never had an arranged marriage.

He also wrote the following about the potential fall out from divorce:

"*We live in New York so the culture thing does affect but not as much if we would have lived in our ethnic native.*"

"...*or do i want to do something about it...there will be initial* *pain for few months* *but when everything settles down would there be better days for both of us*."

So the actual OP is the one who is stressing the emotional fall out, but has said that the repercussions, thanks to his location here in the States, would "settle down" after a few months. That is not the language of someone who has no options, which is how many people in traditional arranged marriages feel.

And again, he hasn't flat out said it was arranged. If it's an arranged marriage, which goes beyond general familial pressure, he should clarify that.

So my advice is based off what HE said. Not anybody else in this thread, but him.


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## [email protected]

Zing said:


> Jaquen, I totally understand you not accepting the norms of an arranged marriage, but your statement here suggests you not understanding the very concept of it...very few if any couples in an arranged marriage get married because they loved the other partner (forget 'in love')...if they did love each other then its a love marriage, not an arranged one...
> The very basis of an arranged marriage is that you let the elders in your home find a match for you....parents enquire around...relatives make suggestions...your families subtly do all the background checks on the person and his/her family (i.e. that the immediate family and the boy/girl in question is of sound mental/financial/educational and physical standing and that the looks/age etc are compatible etc...)
> Then, the two get introduced....the boy+girl spend some time talking to each other (in my case a day... in some cases a few weeks...sometimes months) they discuss preferences/desires/priorities/backgrounds/ aims/ambitions/loyalties etc and then give the nod if they think they're compatible.... parents arrange the wedding...the couple rarely if ever wait to fall in love when they're wed... the love grows during the period of marriage...
> 
> 
> 
> If that is the case he should have never agreed to an arranged marriage... or if he had the chance to discuss stuff with her before the wedding and realized she wasn't his type, he could have called it off then...
> 
> You feel empathetic towards the OP? Can you imagine what the girl is going through... she stayed dutiful to her parent's wishes...married a guy as per her family's wishes who'd given his own consent too...then grown to love and fall in love with him..stay faithful...basically, she's never shown qualities that one wouldn't want in a wife (surmising this from the OP's post) and now her husband states that he's no longer interested and tired of trying...
> That would crush her... its not like a person giving the 'I'm no longer in love with you' speech because the whole scenario is different...they were never in love to start with....its basically him saying..'I never loved you..will never love you and can never give to this arranged marriage what you could...I thought wrong, made a mistake and have now ruined your entire life..sorry for that...'
> 
> So as per your statement, he goes off and has every chance of finding love again... (this is a male chauvinistic society btw) ...so, what about her..yes her husband never really loved her...but she at least had his male friendship & companionship, someone to sleep next to every night...someone to hold hands with every now and again...someone to go to the movies with...a form of male security...he was her financial support...the children have a father figure...someone she can be intimate with at least once in a while... All that will be snatched from her for no fault of her's...
> 
> After this ends, do you think she is just allowed to go off and start hanging out with her girl-friends in malls, clubs/bars in order to meet potential men to date (like its done in the west)...this is a different society where even the concept of dating between singles isn't very common...can you imagine how many would be interested in dating/getting to know a married woman... and that too one who has a kid... if and when SHE does try to develop male friends, she'd be talked ill upon... if anything, THE MAN would have to approach her and her family and ask for her hand in marriage...her chances of finding love and a genuine remarriage are very minimal... besides, since she has a kid from this marriage - she'll still be somewhat tied to her current in-laws...and they'd have to approve too (which I hope they do seeing that it was their son's decision to end the marriage)...Yes yes its all different there
> 
> Additionally, there'll always be hushed lingering questions going around in the judgemental society 'What was wrong with her, that the man divorced her' 'Wonder what did she do...' 'Wonder if she is physically/mentally all right?' No no they wouldn't torture or stone her....far from it...in fact, divorces are more common today than say 10 years ago, but still she would find hurdles every time she tries being accepted back into society...(there will always be exceptions)
> 
> Not to mention, the security issues that are often encountered with a lone lady living by herself in such a community and how some men could take advantage of that...(obviously, all this would not come into play if she goes on to live with her family and they stay strongly supportive all through!) but this society still considers an unmarried/divorced daughter a bit of a burden on ageing parents..
> 
> Besides, in a country where most men have their parents finding them virginal young (educated?) brides in their own communities as soon as they get their jobs - why would they even bother trying to fight their families and marry a divorcee with a kid...
> 
> A very rare scenario would have to be a man who has genuine intent, falls for the lady strongly enough to go ahead with it, has the guts to approach his family and go against them and stay loyal to his promise to her all through...
> 
> Today, in modern cities divorcees do lead independent lives and some do find true love again...most cases would have to be if the girl is lucky enough to work in a large office with forward-thinking men... but again, this is a very small fraction of the entire scenario...whatever it is, the path will be very very very difficult for her henceforth...I really really feel sorry for her...
> 
> My intent of the message was not to say that the OP should live it out his entire life like this... my intent was to make people see how its easier said than done (and why possibly even the poster himself would find it quite difficult to opt out)...besides, my long explanation was also to see how badly the girl has it...


Thanks Zing...but you are being little judgemental about me...I completely understand your whole point of view and the reason why i am writing all this here because i have a very high level of inner conflict which is causing me emotional pain...the reason for this is exactly what you wrote above....thinking about my wife and my kid and about their future...i am thinking more about their future and happiness then mine and which is why i am holding back on any decision making and thats where the conflict is coming along....if i was being selfish here i would have straight out left everything...but i am in a big delimma whether to think about myself and break off this marriage or just keep living like the way i have past 7 years.....

To just clarify a little bit, it was a pure arranged marriage but not a normal one where guy meets the girl and then both say yes...we both said yes under family pressure and we were young.she was 21 and i was 23... my mom wanted me to marry this girl and she was suffering from terminal cancer and wanted to see me get married before her death. ..i did not say this before cuz i did not wanted sympathy, i needed honestly advice.

I do understand that you have a very soft corner for my wife and i appreciate that, i also do the same and thats why i in a emotional trauma thinking of what would happen to them after i leave with the cultural background...living in US does help but still mentality would stay the same..and i dont think my wife would consider marrying a guy from another culture (mostly, but it could change with time)
but the split personality within me also tells me sometimes that i have my life too, if i cannot love her now and what if never, wouldnt that be injustice to her and also being ignorant to my own feelings..

You see how difficult it has been for me..


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## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> Franks,
> the last post from Zing and from Jaquen have made it clear that I don't know what I would do if I were you.
> 
> Is separation an option? Maybe to get clarity because many get the freedom they have desired and then realize they are still unhappy. Others realize they shouldn't be married. Just a thought.


This is exactly why i had spoken to my wife about the 6 month seperation to try testing our bond and love for each other...right now we take each other for granted, see each other everyday. sometimes seperation for few months is necessary to come closer..a little diversion might bring me closer to her when i may realize that i do miss her and i am habitual to her and realize her value in my life....
if that happens then i would be wholeheartedly coming back to her, if her love goes down in 6 months or i cannot miss her or start loving her or feeling her absense in 6 months, we know that its over and love will never be part of her life...

She is not trying to understand that point of view..she wants the extreme decision, this way or that way.


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## Zing

Edited my reply after reading Frank's reply...

Jaquen, the OP has been in an arranged marriage... that's something which I knew and he's clarified it now...

@ Franks
All right family pressure...but in most cases that's how it goes doesn't it Franks...in your case your mother emotionally blackmailed you... but even if not...once a guy turns 25..26...27 his family would start pestering him to get married...especially for young men deployed outside...they prefer to send their son away *with a wife* so he'd have someone to take care of his house/kitchen while he's off to work...(true, also in the secret hope that their son didn't end up falling for someone outside their community/religion during his stay outside the country) 
Most guys try and wait it out for a year, but they do give in...

That's how it goes most ways back home...even my brother was pressured 2 years ago...now my cousins are being pressured  but that's the norm...that's the system and they'd grow to love their wives... [my husband was an odd one out ASKING his parents to find a bride for him...since he became fed up of living alone in London...lol] 

You probably felt more pressure than most due to your mother's illness...I understand...but you know that the arranged marriage system is different from the beginning...*if you felt so strongly about love, I wish you'd rebelled from the beginning so they knew...*what guarantee that if you'd waited 4 years and then had the marriage arranged that you'd still love the girl you'd married...you also possibly hold some resentment that the age at which you got married was too early for your liking...[I understand...since one of my friends had to give up her college education since her mother was dying of breast cancer and wanted to see her married...she was sad about the education bit, but she loves her husband nevertheless]

By the way is your wife not attractive? Is she too needy/clingy? Does she have traits that you don't find appealing...sorry if I'm forthright - but, since you say you could never feel attracted to her I'm asking...
Anyway, if you've tried MC and all other venues for sure and have given up...then please approach the issue from the standpoints advised otherwise... 

You only have the following options
You give in to your family since you've grown up with them - you marry the girl of their + your choice and work towards marriage (or)
You put your foot down and rebel to say you want a love marriage...you abandon the family if needs be
Once you've done the deed and you're not happy
You either suck it up and continue trying (or)
End the wedding in the noblest fashion & order possible - counselling, explanations, support, gently putting your foot down about a separation, informing family etc...
What else could we say from other parts of the world that could give you any different options or make you change your mind...

Actually since I'm from your background and country my 'emotionally' tainted replies...I apologize for that...I became distraught at the thought of being in your wife's shoes...Our community has many positive things but 'women's equality' are not one of them... sadly enough...

Will your wife have to go back home after a divorce, then I'd truly truly hope you are supportive enough during the transition and settling...
Again, I'm not saying she'd be isolated back home..but her life will not be smooth in the least...definitely not supportive enough like how its here in the west...the number of options for a divorcee there are much much lesser there than those available here and you know it yourself...
Sorry if I offended you - just that a few things hit home!


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## [email protected]

Zing said:


> Edited my reply after reading Frank's reply...
> 
> Jaquen, the OP has been in an arranged marriage... that's something which I knew and he's clarified it now...
> 
> @ Franks
> All right family pressure...but in most cases that's how it goes doesn't it Franks...in your case your mother emotionally blackmailed you... but even if not...once a guy turns 25..26...27 his family would start pestering him to get married...especially for young men deployed outside...they prefer to send their son away *with a wife* so he'd have someone to take care of his house/kitchen while he's off to work...(true, also in the secret hope that their son didn't end up falling for someone outside their community/religion during his stay outside the country)
> Most guys try and wait it out for a year, but they do give in...
> 
> That's how it goes most ways back home...even my brother was pressured 2 years ago...now my cousins are being pressured  but that's the norm...that's the system and they'd grow to love their wives... [my husband was an odd one out ASKING his parents to find a bride for him...since he became fed up of living alone in London...lol]
> 
> You probably felt more pressure than most due to your mother's illness...I understand...but you know that the arranged marriage system is different from the beginning...*if you felt so strongly about love, I wish you'd rebelled from the beginning so they knew...*what guarantee that if you'd waited 4 years and then had the marriage arranged that you'd still love the girl you'd married...you also possibly hold some resentment that the age at which you got married was too early for your liking...[I understand...since one of my friends had to give up her college education since her mother was dying of breast cancer and wanted to see her married...she was sad about the education bit, but she loves her husband nevertheless]
> 
> By the way is your wife not attractive? Is she too needy/clingy? Does she have traits that you don't find appealing...sorry if I'm forthright - but, since you say you could never feel attracted to her I'm asking...
> Anyway, if you've tried MC and all other venues for sure and have given up...then please approach the issue from the standpoints advised otherwise...
> 
> You only have the following options
> You give in to your family since you've grown up with them - you marry the girl of their + your choice and work towards marriage (or)
> You put your foot down and rebel to say you want a love marriage...you abandon the family if needs be
> Once you've done the deed and you're not happy
> You either suck it up and continue trying (or)
> End the wedding in the noblest fashion & order possible - counselling, explanations, support, gently putting your foot down about a separation, informing family etc...
> What else could we say from other parts of the world that could give you any different options or make you change your mind...
> 
> Actually since I'm from your background and country my 'emotionally' tainted replies...I apologize for that...I became distraught at the thought of being in your wife's shoes...Our community has many positive things but 'women's equality' are not one of them... sadly enough...
> 
> Will your wife have to go back home after a divorce, then I'd truly truly hope you are supportive enough during the transition and settling...
> Again, I'm not saying she'd be isolated back home..but her life will not be smooth in the least...definitely not supportive enough like how its here in the west...the number of options for a divorcee there are much much lesser there than those available here and you know it yourself...
> Sorry if I offended you - just that a few things hit home!


No Zing..please do not apologize...i completely understand your view point...we're from same background so i also share your views about my wife...i do care for her thats what i have been saying since the very beginning..but i dont love her as a wife...
Just a little clarification from me....Me and my wife both are US citizens, i didnt come here for work..i came here on a resident basis back in 99 and she in 98...so she definately doesnt have to go back to the native country..she can definately work and stay in united states....as a matter of fact, she has a decent enough job in New york right now.
Again i wasnt ready for marriage and she wasnt either...and we got married cuz of my mothers illness....me and her wanted to oppose but parents from both sides convinced us....
I WISH I HAD REBELLED THAT TIME...yes i know i should have done that..but didnt have the balls to do that at that time..wasnt mature enough to make a decision of the lifetime...didnt finish my studies, she neither, didnt have a stable work...but again we were convinced that once we get married we will be able to settle down faster....total crap if i think now....one should always finish studying and get stable job before thinking of marriage....

As far as my wife being attractive...thinking differs from person to person...if i show you her picture, you might find her attractive enough...our friends think that we look cute together..but then again i am not attracted to her that means that there are definately some traits in her and things in her that dont appeal to me....its again looking from my eyes...

The options for me are very limited...i had put forth a option of a 6 month seperation in front of my wife to test our bonding and how much we miss each other in those 6 months..sometimes a little diversion is very necessary to bring back the train on the right track....but she straightaway rejected the idea...she wants extreme decision either ways...
I dont know if you understand my view point...most people i spoke to didnt understand that...specially not in my family or hers....i guess its cuz they're too attached to her..


----------



## Zing

All right...if you are US citizens then that should relieve things a bit..she need not go home till she feels like it...and all the comments about being a single divorced woman back home can be negated...besides, having been away from you so long makes me think your family would have a slightly more mordernist approach to the whole issue...

However, because they're attached to her - its no surprise that your family are not going to be on your side (and I'm not going to lie I am on your wife's side too lol)

However, her staying back in the US means she has a more independent life-style and would be financially independent too... even makes me wish she finds a good chance at finding someone who'd truly love her and remarry her wherever the man is from (my friend's sis-in-law lives in the US. she was cheated in an arranged marriage - her ex was mentally unstable. anyway, she's now married a Japanese man against the wishes of her family and is very happy...another distant relative also has a similar story and she's now happy with another man...though I must mention that in both these examples the ladies did not/could not even spend a whole proper day with their exes...) 

Anyway, other than the steps enlightened above there's not much else you can do...if you need any further help or a vent-route do pm me and I'll try to be of assistance... 

sorry once again if I sounded harsh


----------



## Zing

Well said Thundarr 
Franks, if you are separating from her because you want to see if you can rekindle attraction then you'd need to follow the steps accordingly...

Some members here recommend different books/action plans for different types of separation...I'm sure there's a set plan for the 'not attracted' one too...let her try and you should probably too... 

Ele is one lovely member here who has very wise advice wrt this...could you pm her...she's replied here too..


----------



## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> No Zing..please do not apologize...i completely understand your view point...we're from same background so i also share your views about my wife...i do care for her thats what i have been saying since the very beginning..but i dont love her as a wife...
> Just a little clarification from me....Me and my wife both are US citizens, i didnt come here for work..i came here on a resident basis back in 99 and she in 98...so she definately doesnt have to go back to the native country..she can definately work and stay in united states....as a matter of fact, she has a decent enough job in New york right now.
> Again i wasnt ready for marriage and she wasnt either...and we got married cuz of my mothers illness....me and her wanted to oppose but parents from both sides convinced us....
> I WISH I HAD REBELLED THAT TIME...yes i know i should have done that..but didnt have the balls to do that at that time..wasnt mature enough to make a decision of the lifetime...didnt finish my studies, she neither, didnt have a stable work...but again we were convinced that once we get married we will be able to settle down faster....total crap if i think now....one should always finish studying and get stable job before thinking of marriage....
> 
> As far as my wife being attractive...thinking differs from person to person...if i show you her picture, you might find her attractive enough...our friends think that we look cute together..but then again i am not attracted to her that means that there are definately some traits in her and things in her that dont appeal to me....its again looking from my eyes...
> 
> The options for me are very limited...i had put forth a option of a 6 month seperation in front of my wife to test our bonding and how much we miss each other in those 6 months..sometimes a little diversion is very necessary to bring back the train on the right track....but she straightaway rejected the idea...she wants extreme decision either ways...
> I dont know if you understand my view point...most people i spoke to didnt understand that...specially not in my family or hers....i guess its cuz they're too attached to her..



Thanks for clarifying for everyone that this was an arranged marriage (though still the set up still rings as more familial pressure, especially with your mom's illness, than a standard arranged marriage).

And also thank you for reiterating that you DO have options, which is something I believe you made clear from the get go. Your emotional turmoil, and concern for your wife and child, are real. But I definitely wasn't getting the vibe that your wife would basically be going back to her home country for an old fashioned stoning, like Zing tried to paint. You both have options living here in the states, which you made clear pages ago, and while this will be a blow for all involved, including family back home, you are in a much, much stronger position to get out than if you were living back in your home country.

The bottom line; don't squander your life. The last thing you want to do is spend the rest of your life in deep regret, feeling suffocated, isolated, resentful, and angry. Those are the standard norms for people who chose to stay in marriages where they do not belong. I think it's reprehensible for anybody to even suggest you stay in this marriage, considering how miserable you sound. You are in the position to take advantage of the fact that you are NOT living back home, and are freer to make decisions based off your needs, not your family's needs. You made a big, big mistake marrying a woman you never should have been with, under duress, pressure, and coercion, and you shouldn't be expect to pay for that bad decision forever. 

I wish you all well. I hope everyone finds the peace, freedom, and love you all deserve.


----------



## Zing

jaquen said:


> Thanks for clarifying for everyone that this was an arranged marriage (though still the set up still rings as more familial pressure, especially with your mom's illness, than a standard arranged marriage).
> 
> And also thank you for reiterating that you DO have options, which is something I believe you made clear from the get go. Your emotional turmoil, and concern for your wife and child, are real. But I definitely wasn't getting the vibe that your wife would basically be going back to her home country for an old fashioned stoning, like Zing tried to paint. You both have options living here in the states, which you made clear pages ago, and while this will be a blow for all involved, including family back home, you are in a much, much stronger position to get out than if you were living back in your home country.
> 
> The bottom line; don't squander your life. The last thing you want to do is spend the rest of your life in deep regret, feeling suffocated, isolated, resentful, and angry. Those are the standard norms for people who chose to stay in marriages where they do not belong. I think it's reprehensible for anybody to even suggest you stay in this marriage, considering how miserable you sound. You are in the position to take advantage of the fact that you are NOT living back home, and are freer to make decisions based off your needs, not your family's needs. You made a big, big mistake marrying a woman you never should have been with, under duress, pressure, and coercion, and you shouldn't be expect to pay for that bad decision forever.
> 
> I wish you all well. I hope everyone finds the peace, freedom, and love you all deserve.


Ahem...  i clearly stated that there was NO old fashioned stoning...and that wasn't what I was referring to...but that his options were more than hers... And also clarified from the beginning that if she didnt have to return that things are different...since they're here in the US things are obviously different...


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## Honest opinion

To OP,all I see is an immature 31 years old trying to justify his actions and emotions infidelity ..by posting your problem here I don't see you gain remorse responds enough to make you go ahead with your plan ,but still, my advice to you go ahead and leave you will probably regret that later but it's going to be too late,I feel so bad for your wife though,those six month your offering her ,it's time for you to think about to bring her back home,or that what she thought,she had a loving home(poor girl)or hmmm things might not go the way you planned ,then you'll bring her back cuz she is apiece of furniture in the house you might miss her and bring her back have you ever thought how she will feel how damaged ,hurt and sad will be ??but why should she have any feelings she is awomen a wife at home with no rights ,well she went thorugh that before when her parents forced her to marry you..and now your doing the same ,how would you feel if your wife was in love with another guy while shes under your roof ,she in bed with you but her mind with someone else??? And one more thing how about your child is your wife taking him or are you keeping him I mean do you have feelings for him in the past seven years or not??do her a favor and leave and if I were in her position I'll move on and NEVER look back


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## IsGirl3

hi, i've been following this thread for days and thinking about it a lot. I think you need to leave the marriage. I think the arranged marriage part and the family and religious and cultural pressure make this more complicated than most splits, but anyone else who wrote here and said that they didn't love their wife and never did, I think would be advised to leave. Yes - the kid complicates things, and not pursuing your schooling for the marriage, and leaving your wife with a possible stigma is all very upsetting, but your are too young, and seem too full of life, to resign yourself to a life of mediocrity. Many famous people and kings have given up a lot and faced a lot of scorn for following their heart. 

I know it may seem selfish to want happiness for yourself at the expense of your wife (though you don't know that for sure - she may meet a man who truly loves her) , which is why you are wondering if you should endure a life always wondering 'what if' and 'what could have been' and never knowing what true love and happiness is to keep the peace, but you only go around once and I think you owe it to yourself to give yourself the opportunity to find true love. I think you need to go back to school and do whatever it is that you wanted to do before family pressure changed your path.

I think you need to be true to yourself and fair to your wife. She should be with someone who loves her and you should be with someone you love and loves you. This shouldn't be coming too far out of left field for her. I'm sure she knows in her heart of hearts, even though you've discussed a trial separation, that you two might not be meant to be together.

You might have a rough few months and years ahead, but I think leaving is what you should do.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> I have a hard time getting past the fact that two marriages are being damaged by an EA. That should stop right away.
> 
> From personal experience it is clear that people in these affairs can rewrite the true history of the marriage when they start falling for another, to justify it. Common sense over excuses.


I think you're wrong. I'm in a similar boat as the OP. I'm married, with 2 kids, and TBH, I never really romantically loved my husband. And I have to say, I don't think he honestly romantically loves me either. Put it this way -- last time we had sex was when our now 9-year old son was conceived! We've both been floating along in this "marriage" 1) Because we ARE very good friends. and 2) Because of our kids. We've both been on SSRI's for YEARS, which do a tremendous job of creating a warm sense of "everything's okay" and total denial. Plus, SSRI's kill libido. How convenient!  Do YOU think this is a "healthy marriage"? I'll say this much -- I sure as hell don't think we are setting a good example of what a loving marriage is for our kids. My husband has been sleeping on the couch for YEARS. 

Why am I suddenly "waking up" to all of this? 1) I took myself off of SSRI's and 2) In a way, I'm having an EA with someone else. What's funny is *I've never met him*, nor have I spoken to him in a live manner. (there have been a few "tweets" back & forth). The EA has been a catalyst -- a kick in the ass -- _for me to do better by myself and get the feck out of my farce of a "marriage"_. I know full well that I'll never actually hook up with my EA fantasy. But he made me FEEL again!!! He made me realize what love is, and how much I have in me to GIVE.

Sometimes EA's are a positive thing. This has certainly been the case with me.


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## This is me

What EA's do is help the cheater emotionally detach from their spouse and then they usually justify the "feeling", blame their spouse for their wrong actions and rewrite history.

In a world of right and wrong, it is never right to cheat. Right?

I go back to my original comment and rephrase. Stop the cheating, try to fix the marriage and if that fails, then seek divorce before starting any new relationships. This is the right way to do things.

Having an EA is simply wrong, never right, even in a bad marriage. We as adults, choose to enter into marriage (arranged or not) claiming the were going to keep the commitment to our spouse.

No matter if they are couch potatoes or ones we were chosen by loved ones and agreed to marry, we owe them the clarity of mind unaffected by those phony greener pastures.

All in my humble opinion.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> What EA's do is help the cheater emotionally detach from their spouse and then they usually justify the "feeling", blame their spouse for their wrong actions and rewrite history.


I don't think so. Did the OP say he was now blaming his wife for anything? 



This is me said:


> In a world of right and wrong, it is never right to cheat. Right?


Do you think that the OP -- or anyone for that matter -- has a CHOICE when feelings develop for another person? What -- are we supposed to be in state of constant denial? EA's are SYMPTOMS of problems in a marriage (or any romantic relationship), NOT the cause of the problems. They are catalysts for sometimes badly needed change. 



This is me said:


> I go back to my original comment and rephrase. Stop the cheating,


 So.... Shut off ones emotions and blanket yourself in denial. That's emotionally "healthy". 



This is me said:


> Having an EA is simply wrong, never right, even in a bad marriage.


Again -- As if one has a choice.


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## This is me

We all make choices. Simply make the right ones. Don't cheat.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> We all make choices. Simply make the right ones. Don't cheat.


I don't think you're understanding my point. 

When feelings develop for another person, they just happen. No one goes out saying to themselves, "I'm going to make myself have a crush on someone." In fact, feelings for another person usually come as quite a surprise when we finally admit it to ourselves. 

If one is in a healthy relationship already -- where they are truly happy -- "crushes" aren't likely to develop in the first place.


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## This is me

Oh I understand the point. We are all in control of how we act on those feelings. Everything else is excuses.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> Oh I understand the point. We are all in control of how we act on those feelings. Everything else is excuses.


What, precisely, do you consider to be "acting upon" those feelings? Is it merely allowing them to exist? To not allow feelings to exist is to be in denial! 

My point is that it is very unlikely for those types of feelings to come about in the first place _out of the blue_. They are usually a symptom of something missing in the primary relationship.


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## This is me

Lets just say, even imaging about greener pastures, or anything that is emotionally detaching you from your spouse is wrong. I think deep down you know this or you would not keep trying to justify it.

If you have an issue in your marriage, you should meet with a pro-marriage counselor to try and correct it.

You should start your own thread, this one has been hijacked.


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## SecondSkin

Zanne said:


> ........ the point is that if you are committed to your relationship you will stop yourself from "going there" at the first hint of inappropriate feelings.


And my point is that you've got it backwards. The claim here seems to be that any hint of "inappropriate feelings" are, in and of themselves, an "EA". 

I posed the question,_"What, precisely, do you consider to be *"acting upon"* those feelings? Is it merely allowing them to exist? To not allow feelings to exist is to be in denial!"
_



Zanne said:


> .I will share the advice that was given me: figure out if you want to stay married; if not, be honest and tell your spouse EVERYTHING and be brave enough to walk; if you do want to save the M, be honest and tell your spouse EVERYTHING and then make an effort to attend IC and MC and be brave enough to stay and fight.


Sure! I'm not going to dispute that this is good advice. My only point is that "EA's" can be symptoms and catalysts for positive change, if it is indeed better that a marriage be ended.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> You should start your own thread, this one has been hijacked.


That would be up to the OP -- determining if my input classifies "hijacking" his thread. And he has yet to respond.


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## This is me

I don't believe you need to EA to determine a marriage in a bad place. An EA is only adding to the illness within a marriage, not determining it.

IMHO you are looking to justify cheating rather than working on the marriage problems which is at the root of this all.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> I don't believe you need to EA to determine a marriage in a bad place. An EA is only adding to the illness within a marriage, not determining it.


Of course not! As I mentioned, it can be a _symptom_ of a bigger problem.



This is me said:


> IMHO you are looking to justify cheating rather than working on the marriage problems which is at the root of this all.


Again, of course I'm not! The OP has stated that he was pressured into his marriage in the first place. It's not like he's only been married for 6 months. He doesn't seem to be looking for advice as to whether or not to end his marriage. He seems to be looking for reassurance that wanting to do so doesn't make him a horrible person. The apathy has been going on for _many years_. Perhaps the EA is the catalyst he needs in order to let his wife go. He is not being fair to HER by staying with her. She needs to grieve, heal, and move on to someone who _really does_ love her. She is suffering more from this situation than he is!


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## [email protected]

SecondSkin said:


> Of course not! As I mentioned, it can be a _symptom_ of a bigger problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, of course I'm not! The OP has stated that he was pressured into his marriage in the first place. It's not like he's only been married for 6 months. He doesn't seem to be looking for advice as to whether or not to end his marriage. He seems to be looking for reassurance that wanting to do so doesn't make him a horrible person. The apathy has been going on for _many years_. Perhaps the EA is the catalyst he needs in order to let his wife go. He is not being fair to HER by staying with her. She needs to grieve, heal, and move on to someone who _really does_ love her. She is suffering more from this situation than he is!


Hi..no ur not hijacking at all...i am glad that i am getting a reply from somebody who is in my boat...and yes i know that i m not doing the right thing by telling my wife right away that i have never loved her and dont wanna be with her....i am worried for my kid and also my family and her family as well...there will be a lot of grief and i will be termed as a horrible person who is being selfish and not thinking abt family and kid.....thats why all this trauma....thats why i came up with a middle solution of trial seperation from my wife for 6 months and test our bonding....if that doesnt work then we know that its time to end...if that works and i start missing her and think that cannot live without her then i will be wholeheartedly going back to her...but she doesnt seem to get the point at all..she rejects it straightaway so does the family.......m still in the same situation when i started the thread and getting more and more deeper into the confusion and loosing my weight....


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## SecondSkin

At this point in the game, you're going to have to stop worrying about what her family thinks and do what's right for YOU and HER. I know how you feel though. When it comes time for me & mine to separate, I can 100% tell you that both HIS parents and MY parents are going to go convulsive. But FFS, they shouldn't have any say whatsoever in how my husband and I conduct OUR lives. Hopefully, once the dust settles, her family will see it was the right thing for their daughter to not be trapped in a relationship with a man who doesn't love her. 



[email protected] said:


> Hi..no ur not hijacking at all...i am glad that i am getting a reply from somebody who is in my boat...and yes i know that i m not doing the right thing by telling my wife right away that i have never loved her and dont wanna be with her....i am worried for my kid and also my family and her family as well...there will be a lot of grief and i will be termed as a horrible person who is being selfish and not thinking abt family and kid.....thats why all this trauma....thats why i came up with a middle solution of trial seperation from my wife for 6 months and test our bonding....if that doesnt work then we know that its time to end...if that works and i start missing her and think that cannot live without her then i will be wholeheartedly going back to her...but she doesnt seem to get the point at all..she rejects it straightaway so does the family.......m still in the same situation when i started the thread and getting more and more deeper into the confusion and loosing my weight....


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## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> SecondSkin, you will never win that argument in this forum.
> 
> And while I can understand where you are coming from, the point is that if you are committed to your relationship you will stop yourself from "going there" at the first hint of inappropriate feelings. Even the best of marriages are not affair proof - that has already been proven on other threads here at TAM.
> 
> I will share the advice that was given me: figure out if you want to stay married; if not, be honest and tell your spouse EVERYTHING and be brave enough to walk; if you do want to save the M, be honest and tell your spouse EVERYTHING and then make an effort to attend IC and MC and be brave enough to stay and fight.


I agree with the advice that has been given..but then again its so much easier said than done when its time to execute this...."Be Brave enough to walk" well the uncertainties are so much that would you get love of your life that you always wanted from your marriage after you walk away since your in your very early 30's or will you suffer by walking away....along with this question and also my wifes future...all these things really makes me suffer so much......

i know i sound like a super confused man who doesnt know what steps to take and even after hearing all the advices still doesnt know what to do...but beleive me i am in the worst of the traumas of what needs be done with my life and my future as well.....


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## Faithful Wife

franks...Usually when a person who is having an affair (and you claimed you are "in love" with your affair partner, I believe?) the reason they want a separation is so that they can cake eat. That means, they want to sleep with their affair partner (including cyber sex) without the hassle of their spouse being around...yet they don't want to just straight out divorce yet "just in case" it doesn't work out with their affair partner.

This sounds like exactly what you are doing.

I agree with your wife....just put in the effort to have a great marriage with her (including stop the crap on line with other women) or get a divorce. In your case, a separation does not help your WIFE at all, it only helps you eat cake.


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## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> ok every one here is thinking that because i am in an emotional affair i am having that feeling that i have never loved my wife, but really honestly thats not true at all. Even if i am not able to marry this another women who is married and has 2 kids, i would still think that i have never loved my wife.


Jees. I had already written a post about not being afraid to be alone else you would stick around until an EA/PA. Joke's on me snce I didn't see this post. Advice just got very very easy.

1. Drop OW.
2. Do or don't divorce without distraction. Who cares just stop freaking cheating like a coward.


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## turnera

SecondSkin said:


> What, precisely, do you consider to be "acting upon" those feelings?


Acting upon would be ever seeing that person again, if you are currently married to someone else.



SecondSkin said:


> My point is that it is very unlikely for those types of feelings to come about in the first place _out of the blue_. They are usually a symptom of something missing in the primary relationship.


 Either that, or a sign of a selfish a-hole who believes it's his right to make himself happy no matter who he hurts.


----------



## Mr B

[email protected] said:


> Here is my story (some people may not like me but i am pouring my heart out here)
> I was 23 and my wife was 22 when we got married. Our marriage wasnt a marriage where we loved each other before, we just met and due to family circumstances and emotional pressure we got engaged and married within 6 months of enagement. Neither of us loved each other but none of us has the guts or courage to deny the marriage, there was a lot of emotional pressure from our parents and family members.
> 
> I am 31 now and she is 29, as it turns out that after 7 years of marriage and 1 kid, she has fallen in love with me but i have never loved her and still dont love her, i dont know if i ever will.
> She is a great human being, very caring and takes care of me and my family pretty well but for some reason i was never attracted to her and dont feel the spark at all. I am just living my routine life, i hate to say this but since i dont love her at all, i always look around for flings online and on chat rooms which makes me very sad and makes me realize that i have a failed marriage. I should be married to a person with whom i can wake up in bed everyday and love to see her everyday.
> 
> I still am unsure of what to do, i dont think i will ever be able to give her justice and love her. I spoke to her about spending 6 months away from her to test my bonding with her but now she is getting all emotional and doing everything she can emotionally to stop me. I am also tired of explaining it in the right way to her and my family.
> 
> I am in a fix, please help me here as to what next steps should i take so i can live happily.
> I love my kid and will always will, but should i compromise my entire life by living with a person i dont love and do injustice to her as she deserves someone who can love her or should i go away from the marriage?
> 
> Anybody in a similar situation, I need strong advise guys. Thank you in advance


 Yeah I'm in the same situation basically. Was never in love with my wife. Always had trouble getting aroused by her. I dated lots of women in the 15 years I was single before finally getting married at age 40 because I wanted kids. I had never fallen in love with any of them either so at the time it didn't seem all that important. But if you have kids it is no longer about you but what is best for them. We stayed together for the kids and have been sexless for almost 20 years. After awhile no sex just seems normal and you carry on with your life. If I could go out and have casual sex like I did when I was single that would be great but I don't because I don't want to lose my kids. The great irony of my life is I gave up sex to get married and have kids.


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## SecondSkin

turnera said:


> Acting upon would be ever seeing that person again, if you are currently married to someone else.


That's completely unrealistic. 



turnera said:


> Either that, or a sign of a selfish a-hole who believes it's his right to make himself happy no matter who he hurts.


*SIGH*


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## SecondSkin

Mr B said:


> Yeah I'm in the same situation basically. Was never in love with my wife. Always had trouble getting aroused by her. I dated lots of women in the 15 years I was single before finally getting married at age 40 because I wanted kids. I had never fallen in love with any of them either so at the time it didn't seem all that important. But if you have kids it is no longer about you but what is best for them. We stayed together for the kids and have been sexless for almost 20 years. After awhile no sex just seems normal and you carry on with your life. If I could go out and have casual sex like I did when I was single that would be great but I don't because I don't want to lose my kids. The great irony of my life is I gave up sex to get married and have kids.


Are you happy? I thought I had an alarming record of 10 years now with ZERO sex between me and my husband. (NO cheating either.) Aren't your kids all grown up at this point?


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## Honest opinion

I have noticed that the original poster will respond back on those who suite his desires,and applaued his actions,you already made the decision why asking for advice ??? Your wife is refusing the six month separation ( lets see if I miss you excuse) yet your still going ahead with it ,you need to take acourse how to make decisions in life .I was amazed by the wisdom of some responses/ the sucrifices been done by others to keep families together. Just listen please there is no pure happiness in life you might change wives and couple of years down the road face same no love symptoms all over ,will you run away again? You mentioned how much your wife is nice kind and caring for you, do you know how lucky man you are ,and how many guys wish there in your shoes ,go take a tour at other threads and see the pain men face with unfaithful wives ( kinda like the one you share EA with),but we as a human learn only from our own mistakes when it's too late to fix ..may God guide you to the right decision


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## This is me

Mr B said:


> I was single before finally getting married at age 40 because I wanted kids.


Hmmmm. Not the right reason to marry. The love of the person you make the lifetime committment to is the reason to marry. Getting blessed with children is a gift from that love. 

I think we have become such a selfish society that we will use others to get what we want, with no concern of the damage we are doing to others.


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## This is me

Honest opinion said:


> I have noticed that the original poster will respond back on those who suite his desires,and applaued his actionsdecision


I noticed that also and others who are talking about themselves then deflect to the OP when convenient. Its called self justifying.


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## [email protected]

Honest opinion said:


> I have noticed that the original poster will respond back on those who suite his desires,and applaued his actions,you already made the decision why asking for advice ??? Your wife is refusing the six month separation ( lets see if I miss you excuse) yet your still going ahead with it ,you need to take acourse how to make decisions in life .I was amazed by the wisdom of some responses/ the sucrifices been done by others to keep families together. Just listen please there is no pure happiness in life you might change wives and couple of years down the road face same no love symptoms all over ,will you run away again? You mentioned how much your wife is nice kind and caring for you, do you know how lucky man you are ,and how many guys wish there in your shoes ,go take a tour at other threads and see the pain men face with unfaithful wives ( kinda like the one you share EA with),but we as a human learn only from our own mistakes when it's too late to fix ..may God guide you to the right decision


sorry you've got me wrong..i am responding to almost everybody...but i am reading everything what every poster has to say and analyzing it with my life..
i agree with you that there is no pure happiness in life and i am not trying to change wives here because i want to...like i had mentioned, the problem is love, i have never actually loved my wife and i had mentioned why and how things happenned in my previous posts...if i was head over heels in love or very much in love with my wife and then fallen out, then i would have definately felt what you said is absolutely correct, but here my case is i have never been in love with my wife at all...yes she is caring now would that mean my feelings would change and i would fall in love with her which i had been trying all the possible ways for past 7 years....
and yes i am very much indecisive even at this moment...the reason is i also care for her and i want her to be independent and succeed in life..if i was that selfish and horrible i would have straight away left and not have a inner conflict and trauma which i have been going thru for quite some time...


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## [email protected]

Faithful Wife said:


> franks...Usually when a person who is having an affair (and you claimed you are "in love" with your affair partner, I believe?) the reason they want a separation is so that they can cake eat. That means, they want to sleep with their affair partner (including cyber sex) without the hassle of their spouse being around...yet they don't want to just straight out divorce yet "just in case" it doesn't work out with their affair partner.
> 
> This sounds like exactly what you are doing.
> 
> I agree with your wife....just put in the effort to have a great marriage with her (including stop the crap on line with other women) or get a divorce. In your case, a separation does not help your WIFE at all, it only helps you eat cake.


i beg to differ here...like i said i am not thinking like this so i can cake eat...no..if u have read my previous post i was never in love with my wife and i had tried every possible way to fall in love with her over the past 7 years...
my affair partner is also married and with 2 kids and i know there is no future together for both of us but my affair was not the reason i started thinking the way i wrote...this has been the case from very first...

i know i should have taken a decision much before but i culdnt becuz of family pressure from both ends which i had mentioned in my previous posts....


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## [email protected]

Mr B said:


> Yeah I'm in the same situation basically. Was never in love with my wife. Always had trouble getting aroused by her. I dated lots of women in the 15 years I was single before finally getting married at age 40 because I wanted kids. I had never fallen in love with any of them either so at the time it didn't seem all that important. But if you have kids it is no longer about you but what is best for them. We stayed together for the kids and have been sexless for almost 20 years. After awhile no sex just seems normal and you carry on with your life. If I could go out and have casual sex like I did when I was single that would be great but I don't because I don't want to lose my kids. The great irony of my life is I gave up sex to get married and have kids.


ok so what is your suggestion to me?...i am 31 right now and having 1 kid...i have been married for past 7 years...what do you suggest me to do? carry on living loveless life for the rest of my life for the sake of my kid and my wife and family?


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## SecondSkin

Honest opinion said:


> I was amazed by the wisdom of some responses/ the sacrifices been done by others to keep families together.


You do realize that it's equally traumatic to children to find out that their parents are/were *miserable* and only stayed together on their account, right? The majority of adults I speak to who were products of divorced parents were *relieved* when their parents finally split. No more fights. No more fake love. No more walking on eggshells. 



Honest opinion said:


> Just listen please there is no pure happiness in life......


So we should just stop looking and striving for it? 



This is me said:


> Hmmmm. Not the right reason to marry. The love of the person you make the lifetime committment to is the reason to marry. Getting blessed with children is a gift from that love.


You know, some of us who have been through umpteen zillion rejections in life, and also are running out of time on our biological clocks, may ALSO come to the conclusion (as someone said above) that 'there is no true and pure happiness in life' -- and give up looking for it. We consequently settle for our second (or third) choices because we DO want families. Reproduction is human nature's most powerful instinct. And NOT just the sex act part of it. 



This is me said:


> I think we have become such a selfish society that we will use others to get what we want, with no concern of the damage we are doing to others.


If you want to spend your life as a masochistic martyr because it makes you feel good about yourself, then be my guest. It's not always the best choice for everyone involved -- _especially_ the kids.


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## SecondSkin

[email protected] said:


> ok so what is your suggestion to me?...i am 31 right now and having 1 kid...i have been married for past 7 years...what do you suggest me to do? carry on living loveless life for the rest of my life for the sake of my kid and my wife and family?


Yes, I think that IS what they are suggesting. Which is arse-backwards if you ask me.


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## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> ok so what is your suggestion to me?...i am 31 right now and having 1 kid...i have been married for past 7 years...what do you suggest me to do? carry on living loveless life for the rest of my life for the sake of my kid and my wife and family?
> 
> 
> 
> SecondSkin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think that IS what they are suggesting. Which is arse-backwards if you ask me.
Click to expand...




Thundarr said:


> I had already written a post about not being afraid to be alone else you would stick around until an EA/PA. Joke's on me snce I didn't see this post. Advice just got very very easy.
> 
> 1. Drop OW.
> 2. Do or don't divorce without distraction. Who cares just stop freaking cheating like a coward.


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## SecondSkin

Thundarr said:


> I had already written a post about not being afraid to be alone else you would stick around until an EA/PA. Joke's on me snce I didn't see this post. Advice just got very very easy.
> 
> 1. Drop OW.
> 2. Do or don't divorce without distraction. Who cares just stop freaking cheating like a coward.


^^^Living proof that "The Thought Police" do, in fact, exist.


----------



## turnera

SecondSkin said:


> That's completely unrealistic.


Unrealistic to make a marriage vow, discover you don't want that wife but aren't willing to divorce her, see someone else you want, but decide to show a tad bit of integrity by saying 'nope, I'm married; as long as I'm married, I won't break my vows'?


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## Thundarr

SecondSkin said:


> ^^^Living proof that "The Thought Police" do, in fact, exist.


Love to hear you explain what you mean by that comment. Are you saying he is not in an EA or that an EA is thought so it doesn't count? Or do you think he should continue his EA? Seriously if I've misread and he's not in an EA then enlighten me so I can remove my post.

If he is infact in an EA then it's a distraction to OP and should not be in the equation when he's making this choice. It interferes with judgement. And oddly enough, everyone else (not just TAMERS) thinks emotional affairs are dangerous and distracting.


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## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> It's not always the best choice for everyone involved -- _especially_ the kids.


Exactly! Cheating parents and single family homes are never as good for the kids and the children should come first. Its not their fault that an adult made the choice to marry.


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## [email protected]

Yes and i am already in the process of dropping my EA..its not that easy...we really loved each other...i guess she was the one i loved the most in life ever...but we see no future together cuz she is married and has 2 kids as well...so its better to just be friends and move on......but yes to be very honest with u..i am scared of living alone.....at 31 do you think i cannot find a true love of my life? am i too old? 

you must be thinking ahhh..this guy is crazy..but yes all these combination of thoughts are driving me crazy and m loosing weight too 

i am not talking abt EA..i am just talking in general after i seperate from my wife...


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## Thundarr

turnera said:


> Unrealistic to make a marriage vow, discover you don't want that wife but aren't willing to divorce her, see someone else you want, but decide to show a tad bit of integrity by saying 'nope, I'm married; as long as I'm married, I won't break my vows'?


Secondskin is taking a page out of the cheater's handbook and trying to sell it on a pro marriage forum. I'm sure OP loves that viewpoint. Why wouldn't he. He likes his EA.


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## that_girl

I met my husband when i was 31. lol Never too old to find Love.

But....sort out your marriage first. And DO NOT CONTACT the other woman.


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## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> Yes and i am already in the process of dropping my EA..its not that easy...we really loved each other...i guess she was the one i loved the most in life ever...but we see no future together cuz she is married and has 2 kids as well...so its better to just be friends and move on......but yes to be very honest with u..i am scared of living alone.....at 31 do you think i cannot find a true love of my life? am i too old?
> 
> you must be thinking ahhh..this guy is crazy..but yes all these combination of thoughts are driving me crazy and m loosing weight too
> 
> i am not talking abt EA..i am just talking in general after i seperate from my wife...


Dropping EA is good. It's like other addictions though you have to do it cold turkey.
Scared of living alone. Who's not scared of that if you've never done it. I was but it's wasn't very scary once it happened and it's better than feeling trapped.
you must be thinking ahhh..this guy is crazy. no crazier than the rest of us.


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## that_girl

Living alone is awesome. I loved it.


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## SecondSkin

turnera said:


> Unrealistic to make a marriage vow, discover you don't want that wife but aren't willing to divorce her, see someone else you want, but decide to show a tad bit of integrity by saying 'nope, I'm married; as long as I'm married, I won't break my vows'?


My quote of "That's unrealistic" was to your quote that the OP should cut off ALL communication with this "OW". What if she's a co-worker? Should he quit his job? In THIS economy? THAT'S why it's UNREALISTIC. 



Thundarr said:


> Love to hear you explain what you mean by that comment. Are you saying he is not in an EA or that an EA is thought so it doesn't count?


Your response to the OP's "EA" is this:

1. *Drop OW*.
2. Do or don't divorce without distraction. Who cares just _*stop freaking cheating like a coward.*_

No. I don't think _having feelings_ for someone else is full blown "cheating" on their spouse. And yes, you are criminalizing THOUGHT by believing it is. 



This is me said:


> Exactly! Cheating parents and single family homes are never good for the kids and the children should come first. Its not their fault that an adult made the choice to marry.


HUH? So, in other words, misery should come first in your eyes? Wow. That teaches kids about what a loving relationship is! _#sarcasm_

"My mommy and daddy showed me that marriage is about misery, and it's not only acceptable to be miserable -- You're SUPPOSED to be miserable! LOVE? I thought that WAS "love"?

-- And we wonder why people snap emotionally these days and go on rampages.


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## This is me

I was 33 when I married. You have a whole life ahead of you. 

Call me crazy, but I believe we can learn to love almost anyone. It takes faith and plently of "putting in" rather than "taking out", but the payoffs are respect which is really love. Although a different kind of love, it was unconditional love that Mother Theresa gave to those who most would look the other way. Big lesson to be learned that can be done with ones spouse. Unconditionally.

Not everyone has the Hollywood versions of love, especially people in hollywood. They set these unbelievable phony standards and makes some people believe they need to keep looking for this utopian marriage.

I think the generations before were more patient and understanding in their relationships. We are a more selfish society and justify our desires at the costs of those already here rather than working and "putting in" to the relationships that stand the tests of time.

As Paul McCartney sang....In the end the love we get is equal to the love we gave or something like that. Brilliant and true!


IMHO!


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## [email protected]

that_girl said:


> I met my husband when i was 31. lol Never too old to find Love.
> 
> But....sort out your marriage first. And DO NOT CONTACT the other woman.


Thanks That_Girl....yes we have decided to go thru MC and we'll decide based on what they have to say when we give them all the facts....now should i tell the MC about my EA and in front of my wife? cuz i havent told her abt that yet...and i dont know if i should....her thinking might change if i tell her about my EA...


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## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> -- And we wonder why people snap emotionally these days and go on rampages.


Those people are unstable. Don't think clearly. Which came first the Chicken or egg.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> As Paul McCartney sang....In the end the love we get is equal to the love we gave or something like that. Brilliant and true!


And Mr. McCartney has been through at least one _*extremely*_ messy divorce. Lol.


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## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> And Mr. McCartney has been through at least one _*extremely*_ messy divorce. Lol.


Boy but his first marriage to Linda seemed to be one to be modeled after. 

With all his money, his second wife showed her true colors going after his pervious wealth. There is that selfish society again!


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## Thundarr

SecondSkin said:


> No. I don't think _having feelings_ for someone else is full blown "cheating" on their spouse. And yes, you are criminalizing THOUGHT by believing it is.


Fair enough. We disagree on the severity of EA. I too think PA is a leap worse so maybe we don't agree completely but he still needs to drop the distraction until he takes care of his marital busuness.


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## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> Fair enough. We disagree on the severity of EA. I too think PA is a leap worse so maybe we don't agree completely but he still needs to drop the distraction until he takes care of his marital busuness.


what do you mean by PA? i didnt get that term?

I am in process of that...but like i said..it feels like she is the first girl in my life i truly loved and had real true feelings for her..forgetting her would definately cause me lot of pain as well cuz i am very much emotionally attached to her....but i will be doing it...we have already spoken about this to be just friends..


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## that_girl

"And in the end....the love you take...is equal to the love....you make..."



Paul and Linda's marriage was something I looked up to for many years. Still do. But...I'm a Macca nut  Love that man.


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## turnera

[email protected] said:


> Thanks That_Girl....yes we have decided to go thru MC and we'll decide based on what they have to say when we give them all the facts....now should i tell the MC about my EA and in front of my wife? cuz i havent told her abt that yet...and i dont know if i should....her thinking might change if i tell her about my EA...


 My brother didn't meet his wife til he was about 35. He expected to never marry cos he never found the right person. Then she showed up, and they are a perfect fit. He needed to go through all the crappy stuff to give him time to learn and grow and change, to be ready for the right one. You just never know. 

That said, just leaving ONE person thinking you'll find a better one is a crapshoot - because YOU are bringing YOUR baggage with you and you're likely to choose another mismatch. You could instead go through MC with your wife and learn and grow with the person you already know. You're probably at the right age now to start learning how to sort yourself out (both of you).

And I would tell her in front of MC, who can help you through this landmine safely.


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## turnera

SecondSkin said:


> No. I don't think _having feelings_ for someone else is full blown "cheating" on their spouse. And yes, you are criminalizing THOUGHT by believing it is.


AS SOON AS you start 'spending' your feelings/thoughts on someone other than your spouse, you are 'taking' what once belonged to your spouse - your affection - and giving it to another, even if you don't physically give that affection to them. The minute you go down that path - physically realized or not - you are not caring for your spouse and your marriage will suffer.

And let's not even talk about all the gaslighting, the fog, the blameshifting, and the rewriting of history.


----------



## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> what do you mean by PA? i didnt get that term?
> 
> I am in process of that...but like i said..it feels like she is the first girl in my life i truly loved and had real true feelings for her..forgetting her would definately cause me lot of pain as well cuz i am very much emotionally attached to her....but i will be doing it...we have already spoken about this to be just friends..


EA=Emotional Affair. 
PA=Physical Affair.
Generally people talk about EA/PA because normally EA eventually go PA. The exceptions are things like one night stands (ONS).

No one can make you forget. Not having contact with EA partner however is what I'm talking about. If you choose to work on the marriage then contact with your EA partner is not an option. If you divorce then establish a relationship with whoever you want to including this woman your so in love with now. If you and she are special like you think then it can wait and will also be on more stable footing.

Your feelings for someone outside of the marriage clouds your feelings for your spouse. Many people regret leaving someone and are confused about why they were so disillusioned.


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## turnera

> what do you mean by PA? i didnt get that term?


An EA, which is what you're in, is what's called limerence. It means you've given what should be for your wife to another person:

The concept "of 'limerence' provides a particular carving up of the semantic domain of love",[4] and is an attempt at a scientific study into the nature of love. Limerence is considered as a cognitive and emotional state of being emotionally attached or even obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings - a near-obsessive form of romantic love.[5] For Tennov, 'sexual attraction is an essential component of limerence...the limerent is a potential sex partner'.[6]
Limerence is sometimes also interpreted as infatuation, or what is colloquially known as a _*crush*_; but in common speech, infatuation includes aspects of immaturity and extrapolation from insufficient information, and is usually short-lived. 'Tennov notes how limerence may dissolve soon after its initiation, as in an early teenage buzz-centered crush',[7] but is more concerned with the point when 'limerent bonds are characterized by "entropy" crystallization as described by Stendhal in his 1821 treatise _On Love_, where a new love infatuation perceptually begins to transform...attractive characteristics are exaggerated and unattractive characteristics are given little or no attention...[creating] a _limerent object_ '.
According to Tennov, there are at least two types of love: _a_) limerence, which she describes as (_inter alia_) "loving attachment"; and _b_) "loving affection," the bond that exists between an individual and his or her parents and children.[8] She notes however that one form may evolve into the other: 'those whose limerence was replaced by affectional bonding with the same partner might say..."We were very much in love when we married; today we love each other very much"'.[9] The distinction is comparable to that drawn by ethologists 'between the pair-forming and pair-maintaining functions of sexual activity',[3] just as 'the attachment of the attachment theorists is very similar to the emotional reciprocation longed for in Tennov's limerence, and each is linked to sexuality'.[10]
Limerence is characterized by intrusive thinking and pronounced sensitivity to external events that reflect the disposition of the limerent object towards the individual, and can be experienced as intense joy or as extreme despair, depending on whether the feelings are reciprocated. Basically, it is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoned passion or love, even to the point of addictive-type behavior. Usually, one is inspired with an intense passion or admiration for someone. Limerence can be difficult to understand for those who have never experienced it, and it is thus often dismissed by nonlimerents as ridiculous fantasy or a construct of romantic fiction.[11]
Tennov differentiates between limerence and other emotions by asserting that love involves concern for the other person's welfare and feeling. While limerence does not require it, those concerns may certainly be incorporated. Affection and fondness exist only as a disposition towards another person, irrespective of whether those feelings are reciprocated, whereas limerence deeply desires return, but it remains unaltered whether it's returned or not. Physical contact with the object is neither essential nor sufficient to an individual experiencing limerence, unlike one experiencing sexual attraction.[_citation needed_] Where early, unhealthy attachment patterns or trauma influence limerence, the limerent object may be constructed as an idealization of the figure(s) involved in the original unhealthy attachment or trauma. Lack of reciprocation may, in such instances, actually serve to reinforce lessons learned in earlier, unhealthy bonding experiences, and hence to strengthen the limerence.
Limerence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## turnera

Another way to look at it:
18 emotional affair signs to judge your secret relationship better

So could you be cheating on your partner emotionally without even realizing it? Most of us are, and we just don’t know it.

Use these 18 emotional affair signs to find out if you’re having one. And once you get that answer, ask yourself the big question you have to eventually face one day, what are you going to do now? [Read: 10 tips to share a platonic relationship with your friend]

#1 Your behavior. You’re very friendly with this good friend of yours. But subconsciously, both of you keep some distance from each other when your lover is around. There’s more awkwardness and formality in your conversations when your lover’s by your side.

#2 Excitement. You feel really excited to share any new thoughts or ideas with this friend, be it your review of a movie you just watched or gossip about another coworker or classmate.

#3 You need to talk. Do you ever feel incomplete or feel like something’s missing when you don’t speak to your friend for a couple of days? Even when you’re on a vacation, do your thoughts drift and make you wonder what your friend is up to?

#4 You share your secrets. Do you share your innermost secrets with this friend? You may be sharing secrets that even your partner doesn’t know about. It makes you feel good to share such intimate details with your friend. At times, the idea of sharing a new secret may even excite you or make you feel more connected to each other.

#5 You want their attention. You get annoyed if you call your friend up late one night and realize they’re busy on another call with someone else. You find yourself feeling jealous if they date someone else, or speak highly about someone else to you. You’re not dating each other, but both of you like getting each other’s attention.

#6 It’s an addiction. You’re addicted to this friend. Both of you feel really happy to meet each other after a long weekend. And you feel like you’ve missed out on happy time if you don’t get to spend some time talking to this friend. [Read: What should you do when you start liking someone else?]

#7 You’re easily aroused. Do you get easily aroused when you’re having a conversation about sex with this friend? If you feel good talking about your own intimate sexual details with your friend and it somehow arouses you, there’s definitely an emotional affair in the air.

#8 Sexual tension. There’s a lot of sexual tension in the air. Even when both of you sit close to each other, you can clearly sense every part of your bodies that are touching each other.

#9 You flirt naturally. Both of you don’t always realize it, but there’s a lot of flirty conversations in the air when both of you share a moment with each other, and there’s no one around. [Read: 15 obvious flirting signs between a guy and a girl]

#10 You want to make an impression. You always find yourself dressing up better when you have to meet this friend. You may not consciously realize it, but you always try to look your best when you spend time with your friend.

#11 Compliments. If you’re sharing an emotional affair with a friend, big chances are, you take their compliments pretty seriously. If your friend tells you that you look prettier with your hair done a particular way or that red looks beautiful on you, it just makes your day!

#12 You’ve found your secret soulmate. This friend of yours understands you better than anyone else in the whole world. And you respect your friend’s advice more than you care about your own partner’s.

#13 You make sacrifices. You’d be willing to sacrifice anything just to make more time for your friend. You could stay up the whole night just to talk to your friend after your partner’s asleep. Or you could leave your place and head to work an hour early so you can spend more time with your friend. You don’t realize it, but you put your life, love and your career aside just to spend time with this friend. [Read: Understanding your mind - To cheat or not to cheat?]

#14 Together time. You spend more time talking to this friend of yours than you spend time with your own partner. And even if your partner tries to communicate with you, you subconsciously push them away because you’d prefer to have intellectual conversations only with your friend.

#15 Fantasies. Your friend pops into your sexual fantasies all the time. You may be having sex with your own partner, but somehow, you can’t stop thinking about how amazing it would be to make love to your friend.

#16 Downplaying. Whenever you speak about this friend with your partner, you talk about this friend like they’re not important at all. You try not to speak about this person with your partner or you portray your friend as someone insignificant in your life.

Additionally, you make a conscious effort to downplay your friend’s role in your life, and you try hard not to bring up this person’s name while in conversation with your partner. [Read: 10 ways to resist temptation in love]

#17 A secret wish. Even if you’re in a long term relationship with your partner, you spend a lot of time secretly wondering about how your life could have been if you and your friend had met earlier, before you started dating your partner.

#18 Talk of partners. Your friend and you avoid talking about each other’s partners too much. And even if one of you talk about your own lovers, it’s only for a few minutes before the conversation gets back to how nice both of you feel talking to each other and having each other as such good friends.

18 Emotional Affair Signs You Probably Didn't Notice - Lovepanky


----------



## This is me

Thundarr said:


> EA=Emotional Affair.
> PA=Physical Affair.
> Generally people talk about EA/PA because normally EA eventually go PA. The exceptions are things like one night stands (ONS).
> 
> No one can make you forget. Not having contact with EA partner however is what I'm talking about. If you choose to work on the marriage then contact with your EA partner really is not an option. If you divorce then establish a relationship with whoever you want to including this woman your so in love with now. If you and she are special like you think then it can wait and will also be on more stable footing.


From what I have read EAs can be as damaging as PA because of the emotional disconnect. PAs can be strictly physical, but EAs go right to the soul.


----------



## norajane

[email protected] said:


> Thanks That_Girl....yes we have decided to go thru MC and we'll decide based on what they have to say when we give them all the facts....now should i tell the MC about my EA and in front of my wife? *cuz i havent told her abt that yet...and i dont know if i should....her thinking might change if i tell her about my EA...*


YES, you need to tell your wife about your affair!!! You are messing with your wife's life and she has no idea what you're doing. She should have complete information, like you do, so that she can make an informed decision about her own life. 

Of course her thinking will change when she knows what you've been up to behind her back! She has no idea what the real and full story is here, so yes, when she has the information you are keeping from her, her perspective will change.

It's not fair for you to be making these decisions about your marriage while lying to your wife about what is really going on.


----------



## [email protected]

turnera said:


> Another way to look at it:
> 18 emotional affair signs to judge your secret relationship better
> 
> So could you be cheating on your partner emotionally without even realizing it? Most of us are, and we just don’t know it.
> 
> Use these 18 emotional affair signs to find out if you’re having one. And once you get that answer, ask yourself the big question you have to eventually face one day, what are you going to do now? [Read: 10 tips to share a platonic relationship with your friend]
> 
> #1 Your behavior. You’re very friendly with this good friend of yours. But subconsciously, both of you keep some distance from each other when your lover is around. There’s more awkwardness and formality in your conversations when your lover’s by your side.
> 
> #2 Excitement. You feel really excited to share any new thoughts or ideas with this friend, be it your review of a movie you just watched or gossip about another coworker or classmate.
> 
> #3 You need to talk. Do you ever feel incomplete or feel like something’s missing when you don’t speak to your friend for a couple of days? Even when you’re on a vacation, do your thoughts drift and make you wonder what your friend is up to?
> 
> #4 You share your secrets. Do you share your innermost secrets with this friend? You may be sharing secrets that even your partner doesn’t know about. It makes you feel good to share such intimate details with your friend. At times, the idea of sharing a new secret may even excite you or make you feel more connected to each other.
> 
> #5 You want their attention. You get annoyed if you call your friend up late one night and realize they’re busy on another call with someone else. You find yourself feeling jealous if they date someone else, or speak highly about someone else to you. You’re not dating each other, but both of you like getting each other’s attention.
> 
> #6 It’s an addiction. You’re addicted to this friend. Both of you feel really happy to meet each other after a long weekend. And you feel like you’ve missed out on happy time if you don’t get to spend some time talking to this friend. [Read: What should you do when you start liking someone else?]
> 
> #7 You’re easily aroused. Do you get easily aroused when you’re having a conversation about sex with this friend? If you feel good talking about your own intimate sexual details with your friend and it somehow arouses you, there’s definitely an emotional affair in the air.
> 
> #8 Sexual tension. There’s a lot of sexual tension in the air. Even when both of you sit close to each other, you can clearly sense every part of your bodies that are touching each other.
> 
> #9 You flirt naturally. Both of you don’t always realize it, but there’s a lot of flirty conversations in the air when both of you share a moment with each other, and there’s no one around. [Read: 15 obvious flirting signs between a guy and a girl]
> 
> #10 You want to make an impression. You always find yourself dressing up better when you have to meet this friend. You may not consciously realize it, but you always try to look your best when you spend time with your friend.
> 
> #11 Compliments. If you’re sharing an emotional affair with a friend, big chances are, you take their compliments pretty seriously. If your friend tells you that you look prettier with your hair done a particular way or that red looks beautiful on you, it just makes your day!
> 
> #12 You’ve found your secret soulmate. This friend of yours understands you better than anyone else in the whole world. And you respect your friend’s advice more than you care about your own partner’s.
> 
> #13 You make sacrifices. You’d be willing to sacrifice anything just to make more time for your friend. You could stay up the whole night just to talk to your friend after your partner’s asleep. Or you could leave your place and head to work an hour early so you can spend more time with your friend. You don’t realize it, but you put your life, love and your career aside just to spend time with this friend. [Read: Understanding your mind - To cheat or not to cheat?]
> 
> #14 Together time. You spend more time talking to this friend of yours than you spend time with your own partner. And even if your partner tries to communicate with you, you subconsciously push them away because you’d prefer to have intellectual conversations only with your friend.
> 
> #15 Fantasies. Your friend pops into your sexual fantasies all the time. You may be having sex with your own partner, but somehow, you can’t stop thinking about how amazing it would be to make love to your friend.
> 
> #16 Downplaying. Whenever you speak about this friend with your partner, you talk about this friend like they’re not important at all. You try not to speak about this person with your partner or you portray your friend as someone insignificant in your life.
> 
> Additionally, you make a conscious effort to downplay your friend’s role in your life, and you try hard not to bring up this person’s name while in conversation with your partner. [Read: 10 ways to resist temptation in love]
> 
> #17 A secret wish. Even if you’re in a long term relationship with your partner, you spend a lot of time secretly wondering about how your life could have been if you and your friend had met earlier, before you started dating your partner.
> 
> #18 Talk of partners. Your friend and you avoid talking about each other’s partners too much. And even if one of you talk about your own lovers, it’s only for a few minutes before the conversation gets back to how nice both of you feel talking to each other and having each other as such good friends.
> 
> 18 Emotional Affair Signs You Probably Didn't Notice - Lovepanky


Wow...thanks for these 18 points..

Well 15 out of the 18 points definately relate.
The only thing is that my EA is not in US..she is in the neighbouring country so its a long distance relationship EA...
Most of the talking we do is in the phone and i've met her only once..but we do share a very strong emotional connect..and i was amazed that 15 our of these 18 points relate so much to my affair


----------



## norajane

[email protected] said:


> Wow...thanks for these 18 points..
> 
> Well 15 out of the 18 points definately relate.
> The only thing is that my EA is not in US..she is in the neighbouring country so its a long distance relationship EA...
> Most of the talking we do is in the phone and i've met her only once..but we do share a very strong emotional connect..and i was amazed that 15 our of these 18 points relate so much to my affair


They relate to every affair. That's what those 18 points are! Signs that you are in an affair!


----------



## turnera

[email protected] said:


> The only thing is that my EA is not in US..she is in the neighbouring country so its a long distance relationship EA...


Nowadays, more affairs start online, NOT in the same vicinity. 

Still cheating.


----------



## turnera

[email protected] said:


> but we do share a very strong emotional connect..and i was amazed that 15 our of these 18 points relate so much to my affair


 One thing you MUST understand. 

An affair is enticing for one main reason: It's a fantasy. 

There are no babies to diaper or feed at 3am.

There are no bills to pay or argue over how much the other spent.

There are no heads of your spouse to hold over the toilet when they have the flu, or vomit to clean up if they don't get there in time and are too weak to clean it up themselves.

There are no day-to-day drudgeries like seeing each other before shaving or with body odor. No tiny arguments that remain in the back of your head for 20 years and taint your image of that person. No events of your spouse LoveBusting you so that you resent them. No occasions where your spouse took you for granted and failed to meet your Emotional Needs.

In your fantasy, the EA partner is wonderful. Butterflies and rainbows. On their best behavior - as we ALL are when we are DATING (which is what you are doing).

When you marry someone, you agree to love them when they are ON their best behavior, and when they AREN'T. What's happened to you is that you stopped being on your best behavior, your wife withdrew and stopped meeting your ENs, you both grew resentments and took each other for granted, and, suddenly, here's this nice new shiny Lamborgini against which the old Ford can't compete. But marriage isn't supposed to be ABOUT shiny and new. It's supposed to be about 'better and worse.' You're supposed to love that person enough that you'll STILL love them even when someone drives past with the Lamborgini.

You forgot that along the way (or never learned it), and now you're inside the emotional addiction of your affair and your affair fog has got you rewriting your history. Your integrity is now in question. And there's only one way out of this in which you can KEEP the shreds of your integrity that are left - to end all communication with your OW. Even if you end up leaving your wife, ending contact with OW is the only decent solution here. Because no matter how you end up with OW, it will be a tainted relationship and EVERYONE will know what you did. For the rest of your life.


----------



## Faithful Wife

franks...in your first post you said "i always look around for flings online and on chat rooms which makes me very sad and makes me realize that i have a failed marriage."

And yet, you somehow believe that this current affair, the one you are "in love" with, is the reason you want a separation?

You have told us in between the lines, that you have been cheating all along. Do you think we believe that seeking out flings online and chat rooms does not equate to physical cheating? You can tell yourself it does not, but many of us know better. 

Please confess everything to your wife including what is probably dozens of sexual encounters online, and allow her to decide if she wants to be married to a man who betrayed her this way or not.


----------



## [email protected]

Faithful Wife said:


> franks...in your first post you said "i always look around for flings online and on chat rooms which makes me very sad and makes me realize that i have a failed marriage."
> 
> And yet, you somehow believe that this current affair, the one you are "in love" with, is the reason you want a separation?
> 
> You have told us in between the lines, that you have been cheating all along. Do you think we believe that seeking out flings online and chat rooms does not equate to physical cheating? You can tell yourself it does not, but many of us know better.
> 
> Please confess everything to your wife including what is probably dozens of sexual encounters online, and allow her to decide if she wants to be married to a man who betrayed her this way or not.


Yes i did...now let me tell u something....i was not married under normal circumstances...so i never loved my wife...so these were the ways i used to just console myself....never had any physical affair though..and the current EA is the only one i had an emotional connect with..all others were flings..just online flings....but yes since i never loved my wife and didnt have the balls to break that to her or any of the family members..all i did was go online and console my feelings.....i know i was wrong but at that time i didnt know what else to do....there is no future with my affair partner and thats for sure but it was just a trigger to tell me that my marriage is a failed marriage....my wife deserves somebody better who could actually love her...not like me....


----------



## norajane

[email protected] said:


> Yes i did...now let me tell u something....i was not married under normal circumstances...so i never loved my wife...so these were the ways i used to just console myself....never had any physical affair though..and the current EA is the only one i had an emotional connect with..all others were flings..just online flings....but yes since i never loved my wife and didnt have the balls to break that to her or any of the family members..all i did was go online and console my feelings.....i know i was wrong but at that time i didnt know what else to do....there is no future with my affair partner and thats for sure but it was just a trigger to tell me that my marriage is a failed marriage....my wife deserves somebody better who could actually love her...not like me....


I thought it was the norm that people in arranged marriages don't love each other when they marry. They build love as they create a life and family and shared history together. Isn't that correct?

Isn't that how arranged marriages evolve? Do all of those people go online to make themselves feel better? Is the entire subcontinent of India cheating online like you are?

Stop using "I never loved my wife" as an excuse for your multiple online affairs, ahem, flings, as you call them. Just about everyone in an arranged marriage can say "I never loved my spouse when I married him/her".

If this is a problem for you now, then stop feeling sorry for yourself and stop cheating on your wife and get a divorce.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"so these were the ways i used to just console myself....never had any physical affair though"

Right...you never talked about sex, traded naked pictures, or masterbated to/with other women online? Sure you didn't.


----------



## turnera

norajane said:


> I thought it was the norm that people in arranged marriages don't love each other when they marry. They build love as they create a life and family and shared history together. Isn't that correct?


Kind of like Sarah, Plain and Tall.

Sarah, Plain and Tall (TV 1991) - IMDb


----------



## jaquen

This is me said:


> Call me crazy, but I believe we can learn to love almost anyone. It takes faith and plently of "putting in" rather than "taking out", but the payoffs are respect which is really love. Although a different kind of love, it was unconditional love that Mother Theresa gave to those who most would look the other way. Big lesson to be learned that can be done with ones spouse. Unconditionally.
> 
> Not everyone has the Hollywood versions of love, especially people in hollywood. They set these unbelievable phony standards and makes some people believe they need to keep looking for this utopian marriage.
> 
> I think the generations before were more patient and understanding in their relationships. We are a more selfish society and justify our desires at the costs of those already here rather than working and "putting in" to the relationships that stand the tests of time.
> 
> As Paul McCartney sang....In the end the love we get is equal to the love we gave or something like that. Brilliant and true!
> 
> 
> IMHO!


You can learn to love almost anyone, yes.

However you can not learn to be "in love" with anyone. That is beyond conscious effort.

The OP keeps telling the posters on this board that he has tried to be "in love" with his wife for_ seven years_, and has failed miserably. He has put more effort into trying to be in love with a wife when there are millions of couples who were actually in love and didn't work this hard to maintain it.

Some of this advice is so irresponsible, and incredibly unrealistic. It's like telling a gay man he should spend his life trying to be sexually attracted to, and in love with, a woman.

This man is in an unenviable position; there will be negative consequences no matter what avenue he chooses. But recommending that a young man spend his remaining years, however many he will ultimately have, settling with a woman with whom he never wanted to marry, isn't in love with, and hasn't in seven years been able to force himself to be in love with, is cruel, wrong, and emotionally dangerous.


----------



## This is me

"Although a different kind of love, it was unconditional love that Mother Theresa gave to those who most would look the other way. Big lesson to be learned that can be done with ones spouse. Unconditionally."

As explained it is a different kind of love. The thing is this is the more important love in any relationship. The gay love you refer to is more sexual needs which is physical. That is desire, craving, not really the same thing as unconditional love. That is very conditional!


----------



## This is me

I go back to my very first post. The EA is the real story here. Rewritten history is the MO when someone emotionally detaches. You read it all the time on this website. Suddenly this cheater has never loved their spouse. 

In my personal experience my wife made a 95% plus very good marriage a suddenly 95% bad marriage. In the end it was all justification for the cheating.

Arranged marriage or not, there is little clarity in reporting the one side of the story when cheating has been happening. Cheaters rarely tell the truth.


----------



## Catherine602

I call BS on your description of thus situation. You have done many bad things and you know it. Your culture is very different from ours. I think you seek advice knowing that our perspective will not pick out the seriousness of your actions. . 

First you said that divorce is very difficult on women and children in your culture. You are well aware that your wife is unlikely to find the happiness after the divorce. You skirt that issue by stating that you want her to meet someone who will love her. 

That is false hope is it not? She is likely to experience the opposite. She is likely to be marginalized and deeply unhappy and by extension your child will be as well. However, you will be able to get on with your life and forget the whole bothersome thing. 

What imperiled their lives? Is it possible that weak-willed pleasure seeking man who trolled the Internet like a horny teen was responsible? You get entangled with a married woman knowing that you are being deceptive and selfishly breaking up another family. 

You love this OW yet you involve her in cheating? What would happen to her if her husband and community found out about this. What would happen to you? She would be ostracized but not you. so much for love. 

Have you shared your machinations with your friends? Do they know that you engage in Harmful activities with no thought or care about the serious consequences for the lives of those whom you have taken on the responsibility to protect from harm. 

What kind of man would take the lives of his wife and child so lightly? perhaps a man who thinks of himself instead of spending time getting to know his wife and spending time with his child. How sad and so unfortunate that your child did not get a better more involved father. 

How well will a new wife treat your child in your culture? Will you have to cut ties with your child. Your culture would support this action because the needs of men are considered more important than women or children, is that not so? 

You say you were forced into this situation by your relatives? I don't believe that for a minute and neither do you. Did you not enter into this union of your own free will because it was the easy way out. Did you not have a child under the same circumstances. 

I think You lack the ability to control your pleasure seeking for the same reason. Your lack compassion and the ability to protect your child which is a normal characteristic of men. 

You are at a crossroad in your life. You can choose to grow up and put away the toys (porn,virtual cheating) of a boy and face your responsibilities like a man. You carry a much heavier burden to do the right thing than in our culture. The advice here may not be culturally sensitive for your situation. You are fortunate to have more freedom to do as you please relative to women than men in other cultures. 

With that freedom comes an expectation that you will Exert self- control, compassion and selflessness and to work hard to preserve the integrity of your family and to avoid any activity that will tempt you away from your wife and family. The consequences are too serious to do otherwise. Don't you feel bad that their lives were placed into your hands? I feel very sorry for them. . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

This is me said:


> I go back to my very first post. The EA is the real story here. Rewritten history is the MO when someone emotionally detaches. You read it all the time on this website. Suddenly this cheater has never loved their spouse.
> 
> In my personal experience my wife made a 95% plus very good marriage a suddenly 95% bad marriage. In the end it was all justification for the cheating.
> 
> Arranged marriage or not, there is little clarity in reporting the one side of the story when cheating has been happening. Cheaters rarely tell the truth.


Yup. someone currently in an EA is not a good character witness of what's going on. That's why the EA needs to end before he does or does not divorce. At best it's a distraction but likely it's fogged his perception.


----------



## SecondSkin

that_girl said:


> "And in the end....the love you take...is equal to the love....you make..."
> 
> 
> 
> Paul and Linda's marriage was something I looked up to for many years. Still do. But...I'm a Macca nut  Love that man.


In all seriousness -- people never REALLY know what goes on in another couple's private life. You don't KNOW that Paul & Linda had a truly blissful marriage. Heck -- Everyone though Seal and Heidi Klum had a perfect marriage. NOT!


----------



## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> In all seriousness -- people never REALLY know what goes on in another couple's private life. You don't KNOW that Paul & Linda had a truly blissful marriage. Heck -- Everyone though Seal and Heidi Klum had a perfect marriage. NOT!


Let me guess. You see the glass as half empty?


----------



## [email protected]

Catherine602 said:


> I call BS on your description of thus situation. You have done many bad things and you know it. Your culture is very different from ours. I think you seek advice knowing that our perspective will not pick out the seriousness of your actions. .
> 
> First you said that divorce is very difficult on women and children in your culture. You are well aware that your wife is unlikely to find the happiness after the divorce. You skirt that issue by stating that you want her to meet someone who will love her.
> 
> That is false hope is it not? She is likely to experience the opposite. She is likely to be marginalized and deeply unhappy and by extension your child will be as well. However, you will be able to get on with your life and forget the whole bothersome thing.
> 
> What imperiled their lives? Is it possible that weak-willed pleasure seeking man who trolled the Internet like a horny teen was responsible? You get entangled with a married woman knowing that you are being deceptive and selfishly breaking up another family.
> 
> You love this OW yet you involve her in cheating? What would happen to her if her husband and community found out about this. What would happen to you? She would be ostracized but not you. so much for love.
> 
> Have you shared your machinations with your friends? Do they know that you engage in Harmful activities with no thought or care about the serious consequences for the lives of those whom you have taken on the responsibility to protect from harm.
> 
> What kind of man would take the lives of his wife and child so lightly? perhaps a man who thinks of himself instead of spending time getting to know his wife and spending time with his child. How sad and so unfortunate that your child did not get a better more involved father.
> 
> How well will a new wife treat your child in your culture? Will you have to cut ties with your child. Your culture would support this action because the needs of men are considered more important than women or children, is that not so?
> 
> You say you were forced into this situation by your relatives? I don't believe that for a minute and neither do you. Did you not enter into this union of your own free will because it was the easy way out. Did you not have a child under the same circumstances.
> 
> I think You lack the ability to control your pleasure seeking for the same reason. Your lack compassion and the ability to protect your child which is a normal characteristic of men.
> 
> You are at a crossroad in your life. You can choose to grow up and put away the toys (porn,virtual cheating) of a boy and face your responsibilities like a man. You carry a much heavier burden to do the right thing than in our culture. The advice here may not be culturally sensitive for your situation. You are fortunate to have more freedom to do as you please relative to women than men in other cultures.
> 
> With that freedom comes an expectation that you will Exert self- control, compassion and selflessness and to work hard to preserve the integrity of your family and to avoid any activity that will tempt you away from your wife and family. The consequences are too serious to do otherwise. Don't you feel bad that their lives were placed into your hands? I feel very sorry for them. .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well you say that i was lying when i said that i want my wife to be happy in life even without me....ofcourse not..i wasnt lying.if you had read appropriately, i care for my wife very much and i love my kid and thats why i am going thru emotional trauma and being indecisive on what i need to do..had i been so selfish, i wouldnt have been carrying on my responsibities as a husband and father for 7 years...even though i always looked for flings, never did i let her realize that i wasnt happy with the marriage..i always tried to portray that i was happy and carried on with my duties as a husband...

Now you must be thinking what made me realize this after 7 years....well EA was definately a wrong thing and we have mutually decided to end it...but that EA was a trigger that made me realize what i am doing with my marriage and life is wrong....if i cannot be a faithful husband then i dont deserve to be in this marriage just for the sake of it..my wife deserves a man who can give her love from the bottom of his heart...but i will always share responsibilities of my daughter if we decide to seperate...I know that divorce would be bad for her more than me in my culture (both being US citizen makes it a little better)...but atleast that will give her a chance to find a man who can give her more love and same thing goes for me too so in future i dont look outside of marriage anymore...its not going to be easy..it can take months to couple of years for both of us to settle down...but this decision might turn out of be better for both of us eventually...

I agree that i have been a bad person looking for flings outside of marriage but have you ever imagined why would i ever need to do that..well in those 7 years i have tried every possible way to fall in love with my wife but i just wasnt able to..if i had then i would have never looked outside of marriage...

If i had carrying on living with my life like a machine being a good husband and father, nobody would have found out anything about me and i would have been considered a great human being...but now that i have started thinking about myself and started thinking about my happiness and my future..suddenly i am considered a horrible person..

I was having a great conflict within myself and was going thru emotional trauma and thats why i decided to post my story here..


----------



## turnera

[email protected] said:


> well in those 7 years i have tried every possible way to fall in love with my wife but i just wasnt able to..


Really? What did this counselor you've been going to for 7 years say about it? I mean, you SAY you've done EVERYTHING, so you MUST have been going to a counselor with your wife.


----------



## SecondSkin

turnera said:


> An EA, which is what you're in, is what's called limerence. It means you've given what should be for your wife to another person


"Limerence is considered as a cognitive and emotional state of being emotionally attached or even obsessed with another person, *typically experienced involuntarily* and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings" 

So, you're agreeing with me to some extent?


----------



## turnera

Everyone can experience it, SS. It's what they next do, that shows if they have integrity or not.


----------



## Thundarr

Franks. *What's your action plan?*

Are you planning to divorce or do you know yet? I kind of think you should be single for a bit. By single I mean separated from wife and no contact with EA as well. 

I think you'll look back at this time (this thread) and either be proud of how you handled things from this point forward or you'll have regrets about it because you do have perspective from a lot of TAMERS.

It's really not what you decide to do so much as the way you make it happen.


----------



## SecondSkin

turnera said:


> Everyone can experience it, SS. It's what they next do, that shows if they have integrity or not.


Turnera, ^^^this is not what is being said here by certain individuals. Some people are saying that to have feelings for someone other than your spouse constitutes an "EA", (even if nothing is ever acted upon at all whatsoever) and therefore "cheating". MY point from second-one on has been that feelings for another person cannot be prevented. As the piece that was posted (and that I quoted from) states -- it's *involuntary*. My point all along has been that feelings don't develop for other people in a vacuum. 99.9% of the time, such feelings arise as a *symptom* of something awry in one's marriage. If feelings for someone else are involuntary, and never acted upon, how is that an "emotional affair"? IMO, it's NOT. And it's NOT "cheating". Cheating is a _*conscious*_ decision to be unfaithful.


----------



## Thundarr

SecondSkin said:


> Turnera, ^^^this is not what is being said here by certain individuals. Some people are saying that to have feelings for someone other than your spouse constitutes an "EA", *(even if nothing is ever acted upon at all whatsoever)* and therefore "cheating". MY point from second-one on has been that feelings for another person cannot be prevented. As the piece that was posted (and that I quoted from) states -- it's *involuntary*. My point all along has been that feelings don't develop for other people in a vacuum. 99.9% of the time, such feelings arise as a *symptom* of something awry in one's marriage. If feelings for someone else are involuntary, and never acted upon, how is that an "emotional affair"? IMO, it's NOT. And it's NOT "cheating". Cheating is a _*conscious*_ decision to be unfaithful.


The point is if you continue to have contact then that is an action. If you have NC with them and still have feelings then you've done your part.


----------



## jaquen

This is me said:


> "Although a different kind of love, it was unconditional love that Mother Theresa gave to those who most would look the other way. Big lesson to be learned that can be done with ones spouse. Unconditionally."
> 
> As explained it is a different kind of love. The thing is this is the more important love in any relationship. The gay love you refer to is more sexual needs which is physical. That is desire, craving, not really the same thing as unconditional love. That is very conditional!


Umm, gay people aren't gay just because of "sexual needs".

:scratchhead:


----------



## SecondSkin

jaquen said:


> Umm, gay people aren't gay just because of "sexual needs".
> 
> :scratchhead:


No sh*t, eh? :banghead:


----------



## SecondSkin

Thundarr said:


> The point is if you continue to have contact then that is an action. If you have NC with them and still have feelings then you've done your part.


But sometimes people have no choice. They work with the other person. People can't just go and quit their jobs. 

I would define "acting upon" the feelings to be telling the other person how you feel. If the other person doesn't know, and you don't say anything, then that constitutes restraint in my eyes.


----------



## turnera

SecondSkin said:


> Turnera, ^^^this is not what is being said here by certain individuals. Some people are saying that to have feelings for someone other than your spouse constitutes an "EA", (even if nothing is ever acted upon at all whatsoever) and therefore "cheating". MY point from second-one on has been that feelings for another person cannot be prevented.


Maybe they can't. But it you spend even 15 minutes a day pining for another person besides your spouse, (1) that is 15 minutes your spouse didn't get, (2) it just altered how you feel about your spouse (revising history), and (3) it causes you to withdraw from your spouse.

So it IS cheating. And you CAN stop it if you wanted to, badly enough. There are tons of cessation therapies out there to help you do so, if you actually wanted to. But you (whoever is 'having feelings' for an OM/OW) ENJOY those feelings and, because you aren't doing anything physical, you delude yourself into thinking you aren't harming anyone. Meanwhile, your spouse has no idea you're fantasizing about another person and is unable to defend himself or step up and do more work on the marriage to give himself a better chance, because _you aren't being honest_ with him about liking another man (another sign of cheating).


----------



## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> Turnera, ^^^this is not what is being said here by certain individuals. Some people are saying that to have feelings for someone other than your spouse constitutes an "EA", (even if nothing is ever acted upon at all whatsoever) and therefore "cheating". MY point from second-one on has been that feelings for another person cannot be prevented. As the piece that was posted (and that I quoted from) states -- it's *involuntary*. My point all along has been that feelings don't develop for other people in a vacuum. 99.9% of the time, such feelings arise as a *symptom* of something awry in one's marriage. If feelings for someone else are involuntary, and never acted upon, how is that an "emotional affair"? IMO, it's NOT. And it's NOT "cheating". Cheating is a _*conscious*_ decision to be unfaithful.


An example of the devil in the details.


----------



## This is me

"But sometimes people have no choice. They work with the other person. People can't just go and quit their jobs."

*REALLY? I HAVE TO WORK THERE FOREVER. DAMN!*


----------



## SecondSkin

turnera said:


> Maybe they can't. But it you spend even 15 minutes a day pining for another person besides your spouse, (1) that is 15 minutes your spouse didn't get, (2) it just altered how you feel about your spouse (revising history), and (3) it causes you to withdraw from your spouse.


This is very strange reasoning. You're forgetting that the "feelings" are 1) involuntary and 2) not acted upon. Your assumptions that it changes HOW a person feels about their spouse are, IMO, just plain wrong. In fact - backwards. IMO, the feelings for someone else likely develop BECAUSE of how someone feels, either consciously or unconsciously, about their spouse. They are likely already withdrawing (consciously or unconsciously) from their spouse to begin with. Assuming they're "changing history"? That's just ridiculous. I can look back on my past lovers and say with 100% certainty that I DID indeed LOVE them. Do I love them NOW? No. Of course not. The fact that we broke up doesn't change history.

My personal guess? Plain and simple -- you're the jealous type who the mere thought of your S.O. "thinking" about someone else drives you mad. You want to consider romantic thought about anyone but you as cheating on you, rather than find the REAL reason your spouse is thinking of someone else. 



turnera said:


> So it IS cheating. And you CAN stop it if you wanted to, badly enough. There are tons of cessation therapies out there to help you do so, if you actually wanted to.


Yea, and there's plenty of "therapists" out there that claim they can change a gay person into a straight person with "therapy".
:rofl:



turnera said:


> But you (whoever is 'having feelings' for an OM/OW) ENJOY those feelings and, because you aren't doing anything physical, you delude yourself into thinking you aren't harming anyone.


Does it not cross your mind that the person experiencing these feeling just might feel very guilty -- and even more so, confused -- about having them? I would say that the vast majority of people who experience this feel awful about it and KNOW that if their spouse knew, it would hurt them very badly. Like I've said a zillion times -- those feelings existing are a SYMPTOM of something awry in the marriage. If the spouse wants the marriage to work, then they will do their best to address the issues so that the marriage can be saved. If they don't even try, and instead pursue their feelings for the outside person, then the marriage is doomed anyway. And personally, I don't think a discussion about difficulties in a marriage should begin with, _"So, honey -- I've been having feelings for another man/woman, so we need to talk..."_ Some things are best left unsaid FFS.


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## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> "But sometimes people have no choice. They work with the other person. People can't just go and quit their jobs."
> 
> *REALLY? I HAVE TO WORK THERE FOREVER. DAMN!*


^^^This is extremely immature and inconsiderate toward those who really can't quite their jobs. Have you seen the economic numbers lately?


----------



## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> ^^^This is extremely immature and inconsiderate toward those who really can't quite their jobs. Have you seen the economic numbers lately?


Really, I thought the original comment was pretty immature. No immature cartoon icon inserted.


----------



## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> Really, I thought the original comment was pretty immature. No immature cartoon icon inserted.


Really. You call the following "immature"?:



> _"But sometimes people have no choice. They work with the other person. People can't just go and quit their jobs."
> _


And then your sarcastic all-caps, bold italic answer "mature"?:

*



REALLY? I HAVE TO WORK THERE FOREVER. DAMN!

Click to expand...

*No wonder you can't seem to grasp a rational analysis of the subject.


----------



## This is me

Sorry need to clarify for some who may be confused. (no scratching head icon included)

Conditional love example: A gay person who will only be looking for love with another gay person, to be in a relationship to include same sex acts. Requirement or conditions needed.

Unconditional love: The highest level of love. No reservations or restrictions to care and love someone, with reasonable bounderies. No sex required at this level.


----------



## This is me

SecondSkin said:


> Really. You call the following "immature"?:
> 
> 
> 
> And then your sarcastic all-caps, bold italic answer "mature"?:
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder you can't seem to grasp a rational analysis of the subject.


Yes seemed very immature!

Caps do not mean anything other than its bolder.

I grasp the fact you become insulting when someone disagrees with you.

No icon insert..... oh why not:rofl:


----------



## Thundarr

Why are you on this thread Second because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with OP? He already said he doesn't have to see his EA partner. He's only met her once so why the debate about NC and having to quit a job. OP does not have to stop doing anything for NC accept not phone or internet chat.

Start a thread on NC and some will be glad to participate.




SecondSkin said:


> But sometimes people have no choice. They work with the other person. People can't just go and quit their jobs.
> 
> I would define "acting upon" the feelings to be telling the other person how you feel. If the other person doesn't know, and you don't say anything, then that constitutes restraint in my eyes.





[email protected] said:


> Wow...thanks for these 18 points..
> 
> Well 15 out of the 18 points definately relate.
> *The only thing is that my EA is not in US..she is in the neighbouring country so its a long distance relationship EA...
> Most of the talking we do is in the phone and i've met her only once..*but we do share a very strong emotional connect..and i was amazed that 15 our of these 18 points relate so much to my affair


----------



## turnera

SecondSkin said:


> This is very strange reasoning. You're forgetting that the "feelings" are 1) involuntary and 2) not acted upon. Your assumptions that it changes HOW a person feels about their spouse are, IMO, just plain wrong.


Not according to most research on the subject.


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## jaquen

This is me said:


> Unconditional love: The highest level of love. No reservations or restrictions to care and love someone, with reasonable bounderies. No sex required at this level.


If "unconditional love", as you defined it, and using Mother Theresa as the example, is the ultimate destination for marriage than there is no point in being married at all. Marriage is not a prerequisite for "unconditional love". 

You are advocating the OP to stay in a marriage in which he never should have entered into, on the hopes that he will reach some sort of sexless nirvana of "unconditional love".

Nope, sorry, doesn't work that way.


----------



## This is me

jaquen said:


> If "unconditional love", as you defined it, and using Mother Theresa as the example, is the ultimate destination for marriage than there is no point in being married at all. Marriage is not a prerequisite for "unconditional love".
> 
> You are advocating the OP to stay in a marriage in which he never should have entered into, on the hopes that he will reach some sort of sexless nirvana of "unconditional love".
> 
> Nope, sorry, doesn't work that way.


This is the game telephone distorting what was originally said.

Read my words. I never said "is the ultimate destination for marriage"....I even pointed out it is a different kind of love. GEEEZ!

Theres those caps again. Guess they mean more than larger letters this time. 

I guess this is the wrong place for the different levels of love to be understood.

BTW I was not speaking to the OP at this point. Since some posters inserted the whole gay love analygy (not me), some immaturely distorted the reasoning, it needed defining. Now you are using the examples of Unconditional and Conditional love it as if it was directed at the OP. GEEZ!

Caps again. no smiley inserted for accent.


----------



## turnera

jaquen said:


> If "unconditional love", as you defined it, and using Mother Theresa as the example, is the ultimate destination for marriage than there is no point in being married at all. Marriage is not a prerequisite for "unconditional love".
> 
> You are advocating the OP to stay in a marriage in which he never should have entered into, on the hopes that he will reach some sort of sexless nirvana of "unconditional love".
> 
> Nope, sorry, doesn't work that way.


No, we are telling him to make a decision - either leave the marriage to salvage his integrity and stop harming his wife, or accept the marriage as is (or try to improve it) and stop cheating. Either way, we are fine with. But staying married and _continuing_ to cheat is not moral, nor acceptable.


----------



## jaquen

This is me said:


> This is the game telephone distorting what was originally said.
> 
> Read my words. I never said "is the ultimate destination for marriage"....I even pointed out it is a different kind of love. GEEEZ!
> 
> Theres those caps again. Guess they mean more than larger letters this time.
> 
> I guess this is the wrong place for the different levels of love to be understood.
> 
> BTW I was not speaking to the OP at this point. Since some posters inserted the whole gay love analygy (not me), some immaturely distorted the reasoning, it needed defining. Now you are using the examples of Unconditional and Conditional love it as if it was directed at the OP. GEEZ!
> 
> Caps again. no smiley inserted for accent.


First off, the whole cap battle is between you and another poster. Leave it there.

Secondly please don't suppose that this is the "wrong place" for the different levels of love to be "understood". We're not ignorant to the topic, we're just attempting to stay on topic and relate back to the OP as much as is relevant. Want to go on a tangent, and educate the poor, ignorant TAMers on the "different levels of love"? Start your own thread.

Lastly, despite your insistence to the contrary, you did apply your "unconditional love" perimeters to marriage, in response to the OP's plight.



This is me said:


> I was 33 when I married. You have a whole life ahead of you.
> 
> Call me crazy, but I believe we can learn to love almost anyone. It takes faith and plently of "putting in" rather than "taking out", but the payoffs are respect which is really love. Although a different kind of love, it was unconditional love that Mother Theresa gave to those who most would look the other way. Big lesson to be learned that can be done with ones spouse. Unconditionally.
> 
> Not everyone has the Hollywood versions of love, especially people in hollywood. They set these unbelievable phony standards and makes some people believe they need to keep looking for this utopian marriage.
> 
> I think the generations before were more patient and understanding in their relationships. We are a more selfish society and justify our desires at the costs of those already here rather than working and "putting in" to the relationships that stand the tests of time.
> 
> As Paul McCartney sang....In the end the love we get is equal to the love we gave or something like that. Brilliant and true!
> 
> 
> IMHO!


Why you're suggesting otherwise is beyond me.


----------



## SecondSkin

This is me said:


> Sorry need to clarify for some who may be confused. (no scratching head icon included)
> 
> Conditional love example: A gay person who will only be looking for love with another gay person, to be in a relationship to include same sex acts. Requirement or conditions needed.
> 
> Unconditional love: The highest level of love. No reservations or restrictions to care and love someone, with reasonable bounderies. No sex required at this level.


Wow. Just.....wow.

This is probably one of the most flawed arguments I've ever seen.

First of all, here's your first statement replacing your points with "straight" instead of "gay" -- and you'll see it makes no sense:



> _Conditional love example: A *straight* person who will only be looking for love with another *straight* person, to be in a relationship to include *opposite* sex acts. Requirement or conditions needed.
> _


And let's analyze your second point:



> Unconditional love: The highest level of love. No reservations or restrictions to care and love someone, with reasonable bounderies. No sex required at this level.


So, what exactly are you saying here in regards to the gay/straight issue? That for a gay person to be in love, there MUST be sex involved? That it's impossible for a gay person to love someone without sex? 

Also, since you are calling homosexual love "conditional", it can be logically concluded that heterosexual love is also "conditional" upon the same tenets -- that it is conditional upon the object of one's affection to be the opposite sex. 

With the above arguments being made, one can conclude that true unconditional love does not recognize gender. And I believe it doesn't. 

I also agree that unconditional romantic love can certainly exist without sex. However, that situation is almost always a result of one-sided, unreciprocated romantic love. And it's a tragic story with the "lover" being a martyr. It's a situation that I, personally, am well acquainted with, having been in love with a man who loved me back -- but only platonically. That kind of unconditional love is rife with pain for the romantic lover, and is potentially toxic to the soul.


----------



## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> Franks. *What's your action plan?*
> 
> Are you planning to divorce or do you know yet? I kind of think you should be single for a bit. By single I mean separated from wife and no contact with EA as well.
> 
> I think you'll look back at this time (this thread) and either be proud of how you handled things from this point forward or you'll have regrets about it because you do have perspective from a lot of TAMERS.
> 
> It's really not what you decide to do so much as the way you make it happen.


Hi Thundarr...Thanks for asking me my action plan....

After putting a lot of thought into this and reading all the comments...i have come to a particular decision (although its no way a certain decision, cuz m still in a very bad state of mind)

1) i will first go thru Hypno Therapy..even though me and my EA partner have decided not to contact each other, i still cant get her out of my mind since i was emotionally very much connected to her...so i am planning to go thru a hypno therapy ( or is there any other therapy you wanna suggest which could help me better with this?).

2) After i can get some clarity in my thoughts and can get my EA partner out of my mind me and my wife are planning to go thru marriage counselling...i dont know how long it takes to do marriage counselling..

I am also absolutely of the view that i need to be single for a bit away from my wife and also my EA partner. but the problem here is my wife is completely oppossed to this viewpoint..she thinks that will leave her totally to my mercy, if i come back then she has to accept me and if not then she has to move on, so she will have to wait for my decision which will affect her life in the way i move forward, which she is not ready for.

even the family is not ready for that...they think that i am way to forward thinking when i think about the seperation and i am being termed as selfish person in the family cuz i am not thinking the kid and wife which is totally untrue....i will be doing this so there is total clarity in everybodys future...

first of all please suggest if i should take the hypno therapy to flush my EA out of my mind and then go for marriage counselling?
do i need to do marriage counselling if somehow everybody agrees that i live seperate for few months on my own?


----------



## jaquen

Hpyno therapy is not used to "flush" emotion from your head. You can't go to a therapist and expect them to just erase your emotions for this other woman.

Get into therapy because a good psychologist can help you get into touch with the _why_ behind your feelings, and hopefully help equip you to make sound decisions. 

In the meantime stop feeding your emotions for her by going completely no-contact.


----------



## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> Hpyno therapy is not used to "flush" emotion from your head. You can't go to a therapist and expect them to just erase your emotions for this other woman.
> 
> Get into therapy because a good psychologist can help you get into touch with the _why_ behind your feelings, and hopefully help equip you to make sound decisions.
> 
> In the meantime stop feeding your emotions for her by going completely no-contact.


Thanks jaquen..that's what m trying to do...no contact at all but it's so hard..
We've been very emotionally involved with each other for past 3 months..
We used to talk 4 or 5 hours and sometimes even more every day..we met just once but are
Having a strong emotional connect...it's really hard to erase and forget her as I can see
Her everywhere and imagine her with everything...I am sorry but that's the fact
Although I am trying don't know how long it will take for me to forget about her or will I ever 
Be able to cuz according to me she is the most beautiful girl I have ever met
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SecondSkin

Franks -- look into doing an Ibogaine treatment. There are clinics outside of America where you are monitored by doctors the entire time. I'll be going myself -- to Mexico -- in March. It will help you dive into your own mind, and find the answers -- all within yourself. Many say that ONE Ibogaine treatment can equal many years with a psychotherapist. It's NOT just for drug addicts. It can be of invaluable help to anyone who experiencing hard life questions and seeks "answers".

If you don't know what Ibogaine is, here are a couple of links to get you started:

Ibogaine.co.uk
What is Ibogaine?


----------



## Mr B

[email protected] said:


> ok so what is your suggestion to me?...i am 31 right now and having 1 kid...i have been married for past 7 years...what do you suggest me to do? carry on living loveless life for the rest of my life for the sake of my kid and my wife and family?


Life's not perfect. You have to make a decision as to what is more important, the well being of your child or your own need for love. Keep in mind though, the child is a constant and love, if you are lucky enough to find it in the first place, is very fragile and ephemeral.


----------



## [email protected]

SecondSkin said:


> Franks -- look into doing an Ibogaine treatment. There are clinics outside of America where you are monitored by doctors the entire time. I'll be going myself -- to Mexico -- in March. It will help you dive into your own mind, and find the answers -- all within yourself. Many say that ONE Ibogaine treatment can equal many years with a psychotherapist. It's NOT just for drug addicts. It can be of invaluable help to anyone who experiencing hard life questions and seeks "answers".
> 
> If you don't know what Ibogaine is, here are a couple of links to get you started:
> 
> Ibogaine.co.uk
> What is Ibogaine?


Thanks SS..i will look into this....but mostly it says that its for drug addicts or people with any kind of addiction....how could it help in this case?


----------



## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> Thanks SS..i will look into this....but mostly it says that its for drug addicts or people with any kind of addiction....how could it help in this case?


Your EA is an addiction. It's why people have withdrawal and depression when going NC.

It makes sense if you think about it. Drugs only become addictive because they interact with reward receptors in your brain. Receptors that were designed for natural endorphins. The kind of endorphins your body creates when you are infatuated or emotionally connected with someone. In effect, you are addicted to your EA partner.


----------



## jaquen

Thundarr said:


> Your EA is an addiction. It's why people have withdrawal and depression when going NC.
> 
> It makes sense if you think about it. Drugs only become addictive because they interact with reward receptors in your brain. Receptors that were designed for natural endorphins. The kind of endorphins your body creates when you are infatuated or emotionally connected with someone. In effect, you are addicted to your EA partner.


But, to be fair, how does that differ from gold, old fashioned, non-affair love?

Because while I do believe he needs to cut off the EA while he, and his EA partner, sort out their marriage issues, it can not be easy at all to be in a marriage where you've never experienced with your wife what many of us take for granted as having had, at some point at least, with our ours. 

Infatuation, lust, and even genuine love, are all addictive. How much more so when you find it deep into a marriage that never had it to begin with?


----------



## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> Your EA is an addiction. It's why people have withdrawal and depression when going NC.
> 
> It makes sense if you think about it. Drugs only become addictive because they interact with reward receptors in your brain. Receptors that were designed for natural endorphins. The kind of endorphins your body creates when you are infatuated or emotionally connected with someone. In effect, you are addicted to your EA partner.


I wrote a action plan which i am thinking replying to your previous post....what do you think about that? please add your opinion if you think there needs to be some other step or direction...


----------



## Thundarr

[email protected] said:


> I wrote a action plan which i am thinking replying to your previous post....what do you think about that? please add your opinion if you think there needs to be some other step or direction...


I've never been in your position but *I think you should be single for a while*.

See if you want court your wife or not. Staying in a marriage that you feel trapped in and that you feel you didn't want to be to begin with is not a good option. Sure it's a risk. Maybe she'll move on. At least you know what you've been in isn't rewarding. It's not really fair to your wife for you to resent her.


----------



## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> Your EA is an addiction. It's why people have withdrawal and depression when going NC.
> 
> It makes sense if you think about it. Drugs only become addictive because they interact with reward receptors in your brain. Receptors that were designed for natural endorphins. The kind of endorphins your body creates when you are infatuated or emotionally connected with someone. In effect, you are addicted to your EA partner.


I do agree its an addiction..i used to talk everyday..now when i am not talking to her...i see her in everything and everywhere...and think about her all the time...thats how emotionally attached i am...i dont know about her since i am not talking to her....

Just a thought (to take everybody's opinion here) : wouldnt it be better to slow down rather than go completely NC?..i mean instead of talking everyday, slowdown like 2 times a week for couple of weeks and then once a week and then slowly once every 2 weeks and so on and so forth before we go NC....i mean right now i am feeling very lonely and depressed and lost in her thoughts..wouldnt it be better if i proceed the way i thought? 

Please let me know...Thnx


----------



## Maricha75

[email protected] said:


> I do agree its an addiction..i used to talk everyday..now when i am not talking to her...i see her in everything and everywhere...and think about her all the time...thats how emotionally attached i am...i dont know about her since i am not talking to her....
> 
> Just a thought (to take everybody's opinion here) : wouldnt it be better to slow down rather than go completely NC?..i mean instead of talking everyday, slowdown like 2 times a week for couple of weeks and then once a week and then slowly once every 2 weeks and so on and so forth before we go NC....i mean right now i am feeling very lonely and depressed and lost in her thoughts..wouldnt it be better if i proceed the way i thought?
> 
> Please let me know...Thnx


No. If you have any contact at all, it still feeds it. And, as long as you are still married to other people, it is STILL cheating, no matter how anyone tries to rationalize it (and no, I don't recall anyone trying to do that). I've been there. Not in the loveless marriage, but in the emotional connection of an EA. And yes, it IS hard. It IS depressing, going NC. It is VERY depressing. But as long as you are married, and as long as there is even the SLIGHTEST chance that you will REMAIN married, it is important, for BOTH you and your EA to go NC, and STAY NC. SHE cannot be the reason for your marriage failing, if it does. And, if you do end up separating from your wife, and are still in contact with the OW at all, others will see HER as the reason, not that you don't, and never did, love your wife. I hope that makes sense to you.


----------



## [email protected]

Maricha75 said:


> No. If you have any contact at all, it still feeds it. And, as long as you are still married to other people, it is STILL cheating, no matter how anyone tries to rationalize it (and no, I don't recall anyone trying to do that). I've been there. Not in the loveless marriage, but in the emotional connection of an EA. And yes, it IS hard. It IS depressing, going NC. It is VERY depressing. But as long as you are married, and as long as there is even the SLIGHTEST chance that you will REMAIN married, it is important, for BOTH you and your EA to go NC, and STAY NC. SHE cannot be the reason for your marriage failing, if it does. And, if you do end up separating from your wife, and are still in contact with the OW at all, others will see HER as the reason, not that you don't, and never did, love your wife. I hope that makes sense to you.


It totally makes sense to me what you're saying..and yes it is very depressing, very very depressing...i keep seeing her everywhere thinking she is the most beautiful girl i have ever met....

the reason why i was asking what i asked above was because if myself and my wife seperate and then i am in total NC with my EA and if there is a slightest chance of myself and my EA coming together in future ((She has been a victim of domestic violence and wants to seperate from her husband but isnt taking the step becuz of her 2 kids)), wouldnt that ruin that little chance as well? 

i know i am making different statements and i think Thundarr and Janquen would curse me for this as they have been advising me to stay single for a while being seperate from my wife as well as EA and i appreciate their help...but i guess my mind is thinking lot of things at the moment....but wouldnt NC ruin everything including myself and her and does depressed mind think the right way?


----------



## jaquen

It doesn't ultimately matter what Thundarr, or I, believe. You need to make a _choice_. This limbo is killing you, your wife, and even your affair partner.

Stop looking for validation for your decisions. If you believe that your affair partner is the woman you're suppose to be with, than leave your wife, ask her to leave her abusive husband, and hook up.

You are looking for validation from posters about continuing to cheat on your wife. You made a big mistake marrying this woman, but you're only compounding the problem by continuing to remain married to her, while keeping a lady on the side.

Make up your mind, and take action. It's NEVER going to get any easier than it is today.


----------



## Maricha75

Kevin (I'm guessing at your first name because of the email ID), if you were to stay in contact with her NOW, what do you think would happen to her if her husband were to find out? And, what if, like other people who cheat/have cheated, she lied about the domestic abuse? Yes, even I exaggerated how bad things were with my husband. Why? Because I was falling for the EA partner and I needed to "justify" my affair. Does this mean she absolutely is lying? No, not at all. But it isn't inconceivable. And, if she is not lying, I think her husband is more likely to blow his top when the affair comes to light, as long as the two of you are still in contact. I would think that beating her to a bloody pulp, or possibly killing her, would stand a bigger chance of ruining any possible future you MAY have, should you separate/divorce your wife, don't you think?


----------



## [email protected]

Maricha75 said:


> Kevin (I'm guessing at your first name because of the email ID), if you were to stay in contact with her NOW, what do you think would happen to her if her husband were to find out? And, what if, like other people who cheat/have cheated, she lied about the domestic abuse? Yes, even I exaggerated how bad things were with my husband. Why? Because I was falling for the EA partner and I needed to "justify" my affair. Does this mean she absolutely is lying? No, not at all. But it isn't inconceivable. And, if she is not lying, I think her husband is more likely to blow his top when the affair comes to light, as long as the two of you are still in contact. I would think that beating her to a bloody pulp, or possibly killing her, would stand a bigger chance of ruining any possible future you MAY have, should you separate/divorce your wife, don't you think?


Hi Maricha..I know she is not lying..she showed me the letter she received in her name from Canadian court or cops on cam in which it showed that she is a victim and it was in the name of her husband giving him a warning...i agree that if her husband finds out then it would be terrible for her as i dont know what he will do with her..but i am assuming since he has already received a warning, he wouldnt take any steps which would send him to Jail and could be long term.

But wouldnt NC completely ruin any chances i might have with her? 

sorry Janquen i know ur pissed off with me and my indecisiveness and i do agree that i need to make a decision soon.
thats why i will be starting sessions of Hypno Therapy soon and then me and my wife will be going thru marriage counselling so that we exactly know where we stand and how we need to proceed. I am still not able to convince my wife for a 6 month seperation


----------



## Maricha75

[email protected] said:


> Hi Maricha..I know she is not lying..she showed me the letter she received in her name from Canadian court or cops on cam in which it showed that she is a victim and it was in the name of her husband giving him a warning...i agree that if her husband finds out then it would be terrible for her as i dont know what he will do with her..but i am assuming since he has already received a warning, he wouldnt take any steps which would send him to Jail and could be long term.
> *
> But wouldnt NC completely ruin any chances i might have with her? *
> 
> sorry Janquen i know ur pissed off with me and my indecisiveness and i do agree that i need to make a decision soon.
> thats why i will be starting sessions of Hypno Therapy soon and then me and my wife will be going thru marriage counselling so that we exactly know where we stand and how we need to proceed. I am still not able to convince my wife for a 6 month seperation


This is what I am trying to tell you! No! What is MORE likely to ruin any chances is if she is DEAD. And, since you believe he is a threat to her, I'd say it isn't a stretch that he could KILL her if he finds out. Continuing contact with this woman is more likely to ensure something BAD happening to her. If you really care for her as much as you say you do, then STOP talking to her.

At this point, you really need to take a step back and look at the WHOLE picture. You are focusing on THIS woman only. Yes, I get that you don't love your wife. I get that you never did. But the fact remains, you are STILL married to the woman. And, by continuing speaking to the OW, you are CHEATING. You want to be with the OW? Hey, knock yourself out.... AFTER you both are separated/divorced. What you are trying to rationalize now isn't fair to your wife or even to the OW. If you really care for EITHER woman, at all, stop talking to the OW until you get your act together AND you both are no longer with your respective spouses. It really isn't THAT difficult a concept to grasp.


----------



## turnera

[email protected] said:


> But wouldnt NC completely ruin any chances i might have with her?


RUNNING to her after dumping your wife will just guarantee that you will lose HER, too. Why? Because you have done NOTHING to fix the problems that are within YOU and your marriage - you are just replacing one woman with another, shiny new woman who will bring a BOATLOAD of problems to your relationship, as an abuse victim.

She needs AT LEAST a year or TWO of intense therapy, AWAY from her abusive husband, before she will ever be able to have a meaningful relationship. Abuse really destroys a person and she would just heap all that dysfunction down on you and expect YOU to fix HER. 

Leave your wife. Live alone for a year and learn to be ok with yourself, BY yourself. Then, in January 2014, look up the OW and see what's what.


----------



## caligirl81

I find myself in a very similar situation, though I'm the wife "not in love" speaking. There is, admittedly, a person of interest outside the marriage, but he was more a trigger, and there's no relationship happening there.

I get discouraged when I see people assuming the worst of the person in a marriage w/ an incompatible person. At the time that I married, it made SENSE to marry, and it was a very logical decision. My parents provided no emotional guidance for me, and my religion helped me get through the craziness of adolescence without ending up pregnant on the streets. When I joined the military, he was the first person who ever pursued me, so I took that as a sign, although I didn't take the time to really figure out my own emotions. I take full responsibility for this flaw. 

At the time, I thought I was making a good decision, and he's an amazing person - I just feel like I'm married to my best friend and NOT the lover who makes me feel so alive that I blush when I am around him. I pull away from him all the time, and for our entire marriage, he has made jokes about the lack of sex. For this entire time I kept thinking that once I was out of the military, I'd feel the way I was supposed to and this intimacy issue would resolve. But now, I'm a year and a half out of the military, and I am repulsed by his touch. The main difference now is that I'm emotionally aware that it's not just me. I'm not someone incapable of sexual arousal - I just never felt that chemistry. I'd like to think I'm not a horrible person and that I was making the best decision I knew how to make at the time with the tools that I had in my box.

So now, I'm on these forums and searching the issue incessantly, in order to come to some resolution. I'm torn. I don't want a broken relationship on my "record". The world sees enough of that. And I've seen enough of it, in my mother. 

I've talked to him multiple times about it. Finally, he's on cloud nine (???) because he realizes I'm not just giving up on the marriage and I want it to work if it can. But he still isn't hearing me when I talk about the chemistry issue. I asked him if he ever felt "it" and he flat out told me he hadn't, but that he thinks we don't need it because we are unique. Unique we are, indeed, and I love his family, but I'm at the point where I feel life is too short to go without feeling that passion at least once in my life.

So, I feel for ya.


----------



## turnera

caligirl, have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? You should.


----------



## caligirl81

turnera, no, I haven't, but I was just on marriagebuilder.com today and saw that this book might be helpful. Thank you for the recommendation. I'm also reading "Captivating" again. I first read it almost 10 yrs ago, so I'm in a much different place emotionally now. 

I was, frankly, smacked in the face with these emotional/physiological responses (blushing, shaking, sweating, feeling alive) when I ran into the other person that I mentioned, but I'm very conservative in my actions and have learned to remain as stoic as possible. It's the strongest thing I've ever experienced in my life and actually physically took my breath away. I have no desire to have an EA, but I don't want to live dead inside for the rest of my life, either.


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## turnera

I used to hate my husband, couldn't wait to get away from him. I followed the plan in HNHN and the funniest thing happened - once I started paying attention to what his needs were and what my LBs were, he responded in kind, and he started to look not so bad to me.


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## torntrowser

Franks - - Love in marriage is so much more action than feeling. My heart aches for you and everyone else living within a version of marriage that's counter to the blueprint. Marriage is NOT designed to have my needs met. I'm charged with loving appropriately - - with excellence. Simple in theory, but difficult for those of us who aren't in the habit of thinking 'otherly' first. (I learned this the hard way) Most of us guys are batting about 180 when it comes to loving appropriately. When we do the work to 'find out' how our brides need to be loved - - and then reach into, and develop, our loving tool belt to love accordingly, our loving average goes up. That's the blueprint. And before long, loving well become nourishing and fulfilling! It's also very learnable, but is best learned through modeling. You, like most guys, need to see it lived out from someone who 'gets it.' Christ is the ultimate model of course, and a healthy local place of worship should have a few excellent candidate mentors. Of course, the same thing goes for women, but in my experience, us guys typically have more room to grow. To the degree couples try to operate outside of the blueprint - - there will be structural strife. PLEASE choose to learn and grow in loving your wife with great excellence. Life will be beautiful.


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## jaquen

caligirl81 said:


> So now, I'm on these forums and searching the issue incessantly, in order to come to some resolution. I'm torn. I don't want a broken relationship on my "record". The world sees enough of that. And I've seen enough of it, in my mother.


If the only reason you're staying married to somebody is because you're afraid of having a mar on your "record", or out of some misguided attempt to correct your mother's flawed past, the marriage is pretty much over.

You admit that you never felt you had chemistry with your husband, and he says the same. Yet you are a passionate woman, who looks to feel emotionally alive, and sexually excited.

You will never get that with your husband. If you chose to stay, find reasons that will allow you to enjoy life with him, but if the chemistry was never there on your parts, and all this time later it still isn't, it's not going to show up.


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## jaquen

torntrowser said:


> Franks - - Love in marriage is so much more action than feeling. My heart aches for you and everyone else living within a version of marriage that's counter to the blueprint. Marriage is NOT designed to have my needs met. I'm charged with loving appropriately - - with excellence. Simple in theory, but difficult for those of us who aren't in the habit of thinking 'otherly' first. (I learned this the hard way) Most of us guys are batting about 180 when it comes to loving appropriately. When we do the work to 'find out' how our brides need to be loved - - and then reach into, and develop, our loving tool belt to love accordingly, our loving average goes up. That's the blueprint. And before long, loving well become nourishing and fulfilling! It's also very learnable, but is best learned through modeling. You, like most guys, need to see it lived out from someone who 'gets it.' Christ is the ultimate model of course, and a healthy local place of worship should have a few excellent candidate mentors. Of course, the same thing goes for women, but in my experience, us guys typically have more room to grow. To the degree couples try to operate outside of the blueprint - - there will be structural strife. PLEASE choose to learn and grow in loving your wife with great excellence. Life will be beautiful.


None of this will make you fall in love with your wife.

None of this will make you sexually attracted to your wife. Going to church won't make you hot for your spouse, and I say this as a Christian.

What Christians need to start doing is being open, and honest, about their sexual needs with the Lord BEFORE they got married. I know I prayed for my wife before she ever arrived, and told the Lord straight out to guide me toward somebody that I could have a killer, free, open, wonderful, exciting sex life with.

We need to get real. God created us to fall "in love". Love is not just an "action". You can work at loving your fellow human being better, and that can include your spouse, but no amount of "love is action" preaching is going to generate heat, passion, and that great "in love" feeling. It'll improve your day to day relationship, and teach you all kinds of wonderful life lessons, but it won't guide you into passion, it won't set your loins, or your heart, on fire.

Sadly, most churches are the LAST place you want to go when trying to discover who you are sexually, what you want, and what you have the right to expect from a spouse.


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## [email protected]

caligirl81 said:


> I find myself in a very similar situation, though I'm the wife "not in love" speaking. There is, admittedly, a person of interest outside the marriage, but he was more a trigger, and there's no relationship happening there.
> 
> I get discouraged when I see people assuming the worst of the person in a marriage w/ an incompatible person. At the time that I married, it made SENSE to marry, and it was a very logical decision. My parents provided no emotional guidance for me, and my religion helped me get through the craziness of adolescence without ending up pregnant on the streets. When I joined the military, he was the first person who ever pursued me, so I took that as a sign, although I didn't take the time to really figure out my own emotions. I take full responsibility for this flaw.
> 
> At the time, I thought I was making a good decision, and he's an amazing person - I just feel like I'm married to my best friend and NOT the lover who makes me feel so alive that I blush when I am around him. I pull away from him all the time, and for our entire marriage, he has made jokes about the lack of sex. For this entire time I kept thinking that once I was out of the military, I'd feel the way I was supposed to and this intimacy issue would resolve. But now, I'm a year and a half out of the military, and I am repulsed by his touch. The main difference now is that I'm emotionally aware that it's not just me. I'm not someone incapable of sexual arousal - I just never felt that chemistry. I'd like to think I'm not a horrible person and that I was making the best decision I knew how to make at the time with the tools that I had in my box.
> 
> So now, I'm on these forums and searching the issue incessantly, in order to come to some resolution. I'm torn. I don't want a broken relationship on my "record". The world sees enough of that. And I've seen enough of it, in my mother.
> 
> I've talked to him multiple times about it. Finally, he's on cloud nine (???) because he realizes I'm not just giving up on the marriage and I want it to work if it can. But he still isn't hearing me when I talk about the chemistry issue. I asked him if he ever felt "it" and he flat out told me he hadn't, but that he thinks we don't need it because we are unique. Unique we are, indeed, and I love his family, but I'm at the point where I feel life is too short to go without feeling that passion at least once in my life.
> 
> So, I feel for ya.



Yes i also feel that even though i have immense love for my EA partner, its just a trigger, dont think any future permanent relationship can happen there since she is married with 2 kids..and dont want to break her family even though as i had mentioned she is a victim of domestic violence, that will be completely her decision what to do with her life moving forward.

I am in the same boat as you, Torn and in Trauma..
Since i was in a very strong emotional attachment with my EA partner for past 3 months, i am going to go thru Hypno Therapy to get clarity of my thoughts and then i will try to get a marriage counselling with my wife to find out where we stand

What action plan have you thought about going into future? do kids come into your picture as well?


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## jaquen

Zanne said:


> Anymore than the other stuff that's out there? HNHN, MMSL, etc.???
> 
> I think torntrowser does make some interesting points; the part about being around models of good marriages and mentors is one.


I don't believe there is a single self help book on planet Earth that will make you fall "in love" with a spouse you never loved from day one.

Those books can help improve the relationship, help create a more loving, positive marriage, or even help you reconnect to your former passions. But if two people never had fire to begin with, than no amount of HNHN, MMSL, church meetings, or anything else, is going to create fire were none exists.


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## [email protected]

turnera said:


> RUNNING to her after dumping your wife will just guarantee that you will lose HER, too. Why? Because you have done NOTHING to fix the problems that are within YOU and your marriage - you are just replacing one woman with another, shiny new woman who will bring a BOATLOAD of problems to your relationship, as an abuse victim.
> 
> She needs AT LEAST a year or TWO of intense therapy, AWAY from her abusive husband, before she will ever be able to have a meaningful relationship. Abuse really destroys a person and she would just heap all that dysfunction down on you and expect YOU to fix HER.
> 
> Leave your wife. Live alone for a year and learn to be ok with yourself, BY yourself. Then, in January 2014, look up the OW and see what's what.


well first of all i will be starting a Hypno therapy to get clarity of my thoughts and bring out myself from within me..atleast thats the idea..and then marriage counselling..

about my EA partner what you wrote seems to be really what she is going thru right now. you're very right becuz she is very scared of her husband so cannot say anything to him but when it comes to me, she is very comfortable, she loves me and considers me as her laughter therapy...so basically she sometimes gets her anger on me, i dont have a temper or a very controlled temper so i dont get angry on her at all but she is very short tempered.

Even if on some matters if i do get a little upset or take out slightest anger on her, she doesnt like it, she is like i dont like this, my husband gets angry on me and now even you get angry on me

I met her only once and after that it was mostly on the phone for 4-5 hours every day and when i met her i was basically stunned by her beauty and she liked me very much as well and she seemed very relaxed at that time...but then that was just few hours for couple of days..

but as far as i can see she is a wonderful girl by heart but has a very unstable mind, sometimes she thinks about herself, sometimes her kids and family back home and then she tells me this is all wrong, we shouldnt do be in relationship and then very next day she confesses her love to me and says she wants to get married to me...this is how she has been for past month and a half...

so sometimes even i get confused that even if we may have a future relationship, would she still be unstable, or her unstability would go away once she leaves her husband...


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## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> well first of all i will be starting a Hypno therapy to get clarity of my thoughts and bring out myself from within me..atleast thats the idea..and then marriage counselling...


You have some very incorrect beliefs about hypnotherapy.


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## caligirl81

@ jaquen, thank you for your brutal honesty. I need to make sure I've tried everything. Some on here highly recommend HNHN, and I think I will read it. I am saddened that I made such an important life decision when I lacked the emotional maturity to do as you did. I mean, growing up in the church, of course I prayed for my spouse, but not in that way - and all sexual desires were presumed sinful or something so why would I have even thought about that? So, I got the "nice guy" but...anyway.

I don't want to repeat my mother's patterns. But I am realizing that if this all doesn't work out, it doesn't define me and doesn't mean I am like her. 

Still, despite our mutual lack of chemistry, he says he's in it "till death do us part".


@Franks:
No, we have no children. He wants none, and I never really had any strong desire for them either.
I do not have a clear POA. I have another appointment this week to discuss my own issues, and perhaps we will try MC the two of us after that. We are leaving in less than a wk for a trip to the Caribbean for 2 wks, and I'm not sure how that will go. Surely we'll have a great time because we are great friends...but bedtime makes me want to cry.


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## jaquen

caligirl81 said:


> ...but bedtime makes me want to cry.


That's heartbreaking to read.


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## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> You have some very incorrect beliefs about hypnotherapy.


Can you please elaborate Jaquen? what do you exactly mean by i have some incorrect beliefs about hypnotherapy?

Doesnt it bring the clarity in your thoughts and gives you the answer behind why you did what you did?

Please point me to the right direction if i am wrong. Thanks


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## norajane

[email protected] said:


> so sometimes even i get confused that even if we may have a future relationship, would she still be unstable, or her unstability would go away once she leaves her husband...


Yes, THIS. You are currently in love with a fantasy you've created of how things might be if you two were together. Reality is rarely anything like fantasy. Reality might be you'd be worse off with your EA partner than you are now. Your mentally unstable, short-tempered EA partner could end up being your worst nightmare if you were stuck with her.

That's the point of ending the EA - to get yourself out of the affair fog and think more clearly.

And, by the way, MC will absolutely NOT help you if you lie to the counselor and keep lying to your wife by hiding your EA. You have to talk about your affair and be honest in MC or it's useless.


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## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> Can you please elaborate Jaquen? what do you exactly mean by i have some incorrect beliefs about hypnotherapy?
> 
> Doesnt it bring the clarity in your thoughts and gives you the answer behind why you did what you did?
> 
> Please point me to the right direction if i am wrong. Thanks


No, that is not hypnotherapy. You do not just pop over to a psychologist, get hypnotized,, and discover the root to your deepest issues.

It is merely a tool. It is but one small part of therapy. It is typically used to help people recover buried memories, manage anxiety and stress better, even help deal with pain, or psychologically driven diseases. 

You don't go to a hypnotherapist because you never loved your wife, or you want to get rid of feelings for somebody. 

You need to research, and book an appointment with, a good therapist. Let them decide if you need hypnosis. You keep talking like you're just going to pop down to the local hypnotherapist, get patched up, then head off to therapy. I doesn't work that way.


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## Coffee Amore

[email protected] said:


> well first of all i will be starting a Hypno therapy to get clarity of my thoughts and bring out myself from within me..atleast thats the idea..and then marriage counselling..
> 
> about my EA partner what you wrote seems to be really what she is going thru right now. you're very right becuz she is very scared of her husband so cannot say anything to him but when it comes to me, she is very comfortable, she loves me and considers me as her laughter therapy...*so basically she sometimes gets her anger on me,* i dont have a temper or a very controlled temper so i dont get angry on her at all but *she is very short tempered.**Even if on some matters if i do get a little upset or take out slightest anger on her, she doesnt like it*, she is like i dont like this, my husband gets angry on me and now even you get angry on me
> 
> I met her only once and after that it was mostly on the phone for 4-5 hours every day and when i met her i was basically stunned by her beauty and she liked me very much as well and she seemed very relaxed at that time...but then that was just few hours for couple of days..
> 
> but as far as i can see she is a wonderful girl by heart but *has a very unstable mind, *sometimes she thinks about herself, sometimes her kids and family back home and then she tells me this is all wrong, we shouldnt do be in relationship and then very next day she confesses her love to me and says she wants to get married to me...this is how she has been for past month and a half...
> 
> so sometimes even i get confused that even if we may have a future relationship, would she still be unstable, or her unstability would go away once she leaves her husband...


You don't see the red flags? I can see it clearly. She's not a stable person. Her husband is not a stable person. You really want a future with this woman who would have an influence on YOUR DAUGHTER's life? If this woman has two children with her husband then that man could potentially be involved in your child's life if you get involved with her. You're bringing a lot of instability into your daughter's life. You're also potentially risking your life too if he finds out that you spend 4-5 hours a day talking to his wife.

You won't gain any clarity with any therapist until you completely go no contact with this woman. You're addicted to her attention, her affirmations, her compliments. You like how she makes you feel. You're addicted to that feeling. It makes you feel good about yourself. It's hard to leave that ego stroking aside, but if you really mean what you say, that you want clarity, then break it off completely with her. Don't wean yourself slowly off contact. You can't. You have to go cold turkey and completely shut down all contact of any kind. And stay that way for weeks to months. Then and only then will you have clarity. To keep in touch with her while trying to fix your marriage is like an alcoholic trying to go sober by going to the bar only twice a week instead of every day.


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## norajane

jaquen said:


> You need to research, and book an appointment with, a good therapist. Let them decide if you need hypnosis. You keep talking like you're just going to pop down to the local hypnotherapist, get patched up, then head off to therapy. I doesn't work that way.


:iagree:

If hypnosis worked the way you think it does, franks, then you could just be hypnotized to fall in love with your wife. :banghead:


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## DvlsAdvc8

norajane said:


> :iagree:
> 
> If hypnosis worked the way you think it does, franks, then you could just be hypnotized to fall in love with your wife. :banghead:


Oh damn... you just gave me an idea for a new dating strategy. Oh wait... you said that doesn't work.


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## [email protected]

Coffee Amore said:


> You don't see the red flags? I can see it clearly. She's not a stable person. Her husband is not a stable person. You really want a future with this woman who would have an influence on YOUR DAUGHTER's life? If this woman has two children with her husband then that man could potentially be involved in your child's life if you get involved with her. You're bringing a lot of instability into your daughter's life. You're also potentially risking your life too if he finds out that you spend 4-5 hours a day talking to his wife.
> 
> You won't gain any clarity with any therapist until you completely go no contact with this woman. You're addicted to her attention, her affirmations, her compliments. You like how she makes you feel. You're addicted to that feeling. It makes you feel good about yourself. It's hard to leave that ego stroking aside, but if you really mean what you say, that you want clarity, then break it off completely with her. Don't wean yourself slowly off contact. You can't. You have to go cold turkey and completely shut down all contact of any kind. And stay that way for weeks to months. Then and only then will you have clarity. To keep in touch with her while trying to fix your marriage is like an alcoholic trying to go sober by going to the bar only twice a week instead of every day.


Well I have gone completely NC with this woman at the moment for past week and that's why I am feeling very depressed.
But I think I used some inappropriate words for her..i didnt see the red flags because she is actually a really wonderful girl..by unstable I meant that one day
She will be thinking just abt her own self & own life and next day she can turn completely rational thinking abt kids and her parents and thoughts like that...
But I guess isn't that natural for a girl to think like that when u aren't happy with ur marriage, r being a victim of domestic violence and also have a family pressurizing u back from her country to stay in the marriage no matter what becuz it's a question of their image in society?

You're right that if her husband finds out it will be terrible for her..I don't know the threat to myself since I m in US and she is in Canada
But then we always thought before we'll try to resolve these things.

But now her family is pressurizing her too much and she is going crazy over it, so we thought its better to go completely NC and also I can sort out what I want from my own life
That's why I am trying to look for a therapy to get clarity in my thoughts so I can think of a correct way forward..

I do surely know that I need to be single for a while but my wife only wants extreme decision either ways..
M still trying to convince her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected]

norajane said:


> :iagree:
> 
> If hypnosis worked the way you think it does, franks, then you could just be hypnotized to fall in love with your wife. :banghead:


I honestly do not know about all these therapies....a distant friend suggested me to do something like that

Please suggest the correct name of the therapy in these situations...thnx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife

Your wife doesn't know the truth about her own situation, namely, that you are "in love" with someone else. You are duping her into making decisions when she does not have all the facts that affect her own life.

Have you even once stopped to consider how you would feel if your wife was "in love" with someone else? Perhaps you would be relieved because now you could move on without her HOWEVER, do you think you would not feel you deserved to know this truth?

Why don't you think your wife deserves to know the truth about HER OWN LIFE?


----------



## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> I do surely know that I need to be single for a while but my wife only wants extreme decision either ways..
> M still trying to convince her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell your wife that you are cheating on her, and are in love with the most beautiful girl you've ever seen.

That might help grease the wheels for you.


----------



## [email protected]

Faithful Wife said:


> Your wife doesn't know the truth about her own situation, namely, that you are "in love" with someone else. You are duping her into making decisions when she does not have all the facts that affect her own life.
> 
> Have you even once stopped to consider how you would feel if your wife was "in love" with someone else? Perhaps you would be relieved because now you could move on without her HOWEVER, do you think you would not feel you deserved to know this truth?
> 
> Why don't you think your wife deserves to know the truth about HER OWN LIFE?


you are absolutely right my wife deserves to know the truth...but i am just very afraid to bring that out to her for 2 reasons...
1) Now that i am going complete NC with my EA partner, so there is no future with her

2) i am too afraid to bring that out to her since that might change the whole scenario altogether....

I know i am being very selfish and horrible person here but honestly very scared to tell her...as she would breakdown and then dont know what the next steps would be


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## Faithful Wife

"i am too afraid to bring that out to her since that might change the whole scenario altogether...."

Being a mature, responsible adult means you own up to your mistakes and take on any consequences they bring since they were YOUR mistakes.

Hiding from your own mistakes because you don't want to pay the consequences makes you a coward.


----------



## Coffee Amore

[email protected] said:


> you are absolutely right my wife deserves to know the truth...but i am just very afraid to bring that out to her for 2 reasons...
> 1) Now that i am going complete NC with my EA partner, so there is no future with her
> 
> *2) i am too afraid to bring that out to her since that might change the whole scenario altogether....*
> I know i am being very selfish and horrible person here but honestly very scared to tell her...as she would breakdown and then dont know what the next steps would be


What do you mean "change the whole scenario altogether" ? Change how..in what way and to whose detriment?


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## Created2Write

Being able to own your mistakes and be honest when you make them is one of the most important aspects to a healthy relationship. If your current marriage doesn't work out, you're not doing yourself, or the person you marry next or even date next, any favors by being in this habit of dishonesty.


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## caligirl81

jaquen, I value the advice of someone with Christian values. Besides the reasons I've given previously, another big reason I hesitate to indulge thoughts of the big "D" is directly related to my Christian values. We almost split three times while I was in the military - once due to my own infidelity during deployment, which I fully disclosed but which was also very much outside of my normal standard of conducting myself. I took/take full responsibility for the effects of that behavior. But I'm haunted by the thought that I might deserve this lifetime of no spark because of my mistakes, though I realize it wasn't there to begin with. He's all about "till death do us part" and I respect that loyalty...throughout many of our previous discussions, he at first had NO idea how unfulfilled I was and could not understand at all how I could be unsatisfied if he IS satisfied (and I feel like I'm just a hole to stick it in).

Now he's come full circle from confused to angry, back to cloud nine bc as he put it to me yesterday he's "so glad I'm not leaving him." I don't know how he came to that conclusion, but now I must clarify this, and now I don't want to feel like if things don't work out "hey, the trip to the caribbean was great, but I'll see ya later." I'm not sure that 2 wks there can fix the major issues I'm having with our intimacy/lack thereof, and at this point, I'm the one withholding from him now. How do I know when to put this thing out of its misery? I'm a tenacious person and I hate the thought of just giving up on something. I know there are things I can do to coach him through what pleases me, as I've tried in years past, but I'm also overwhelmed by the realization that I don't even like his voice, or his mannerisms, things that are a part of his personality, and I think to myself "what was I thinking"?


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## jaquen

I'm not sure if we share the same value system, or not; even among Christians, that can vary (many Christians would consider me far to "wild").

What I do know is that God is long suffering, has a limitless capacity for forgiving his children, and understands we make mistakes. Marriage, from the Christian perspective, is of utmost importance. But that importance starts _before_ we wed. We are to make sound, strong, spiritually led decisions about who we marry, and truly surrender and let the Holy Spirit direct.

If you did not marry with that deep knowing, you possibly made a mistake. I do not believe God would want you to spend a lifetime in misery because you failed to choose wisely at the top of a marriage. If you made a mistake, truly, you will be forgiven, and you are not to be expected to pay penance for ANY sin you committed, even the close shave with infidelity. God doesn't wrestle with forgiving his children, but we sure do with forgiving ourselves.

But real with yourself. More importantly, be real with God. If you know, deep down, that you are not suppose to be here, in this life, with this man, if you made a big mistake and wed for all the wrong reasons, let that go before the Lord and let him lead you to the next step.


----------



## [email protected]

Coffee Amore said:


> What do you mean "change the whole scenario altogether" ? Change how..in what way and to whose detriment?


change the whole scenario meaning, then i guess what she will want is straightaway divorce....and i to be honest dont want that...i want a seperation for 6 months to a year so we both have space and we can both discover ourselves..


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## Coffee Amore

*Caligirl *- You really should start your own thread to get advice. This thread was started by franks_kevin to get feedback for his own situation. Go to the top of the forum and click on New Thread so you can post your story. That way people can give you advice specific to your situation and we won't threadjack Frank's thread.



[email protected] said:


> change the whole scenario meaning, then i guess what she will want is straightaway divorce....and i to be honest dont want that...i want a seperation for 6 months to a year so we both have space and we can both discover ourselves..


You are being so cowardly. You realize that I'm sure. You cheat on her yet you don't want her to know because if she did, there's the possibility she might leave you for good. You want to manipulate your wife to make a decision about your marriage without knowing ALL the facts about the state of the marriage. 

How can you treat someone that way?

You're manipulating her just as you say your mother manipulated you into marrying your wife. You need to work on your extreme selfishness. You want people in your community to think you're this good father and husband. You want the benefits of a marriage, but you also want something extra on the side. That's called having your cake and eating it too also known as cakeeating. You can't do that. You're either all in with your wife or not.

There's nothing to discover here. Either you want to remain in the marriage or you don't. Really it's pretty binary. Either you want her as your wife or you don't. The day you made a commitment in front of your family and others to be her husband, you agreed to forsake others and be this woman's husband. You don't get to renegotiate those terms in the middle of the marriage and go discover yourself. What kind of father and husband does that? Did your father go to discover himself in the middle of his marriage? If you don't want to be be with her, cut her loose. Have the courage to do that instead of keeping her in limbo. And respect her wishes if she doesn't want to separate. Your proposal is to make your wife the consolation prize. "Hey honey, let me go discover myself, maybe meet a few other women in the time we're apart, then if I feel like you're the best for me, I'll be back." That's what you're saying in so many words and that's what's implied. I can understand why she wouldn't want to be Plan B. Who would?!


----------



## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> You are me, a week ago. Please don't do MC unless your heart is in it. Are you doing it to appease your wife? Just be honest.
> 
> I think this is a good action plan, but I see a lot of pressure here from other people and I want to make sure that you are okay with this plan. Nobody wants to see a marriage with kids fail. I get that. I'm very pro-marriage myself. But you have to stand up for yourself - you are acting too weak when it comes to making decisions about your own life.
> 
> Are you going to go to MC only to sulk and waste the counselor's and your wife's time and efforts, or are you going there because you truly want to live the rest of your life with your wife and you want to make your relationship better.
> 
> Edited to add: I am also of the opinion that you should separate and clear your head and collect your thoughts. You would keep NC with the OW during that time. Perhaps she could do the same, although I understand the predicament she is in and the cultural difficulties you both face could make that difficult.



since you've come very close in judging my nature, I'll be very honest with u Zanne...i am definitely emotionally a very weak person..very sensitive by heart..my problem is once i love somebody, i fall head over heals in love with that person and i get attached and then comes my expectations with that person...i know this is not a good sign and only person who will suffer in this case is me and myself..and due to this yes i am easy to take advantage of....but i dont know how to change that...i cannot hurt somebody at all and thats why it hurts me even more...

is there a possibility that my EA partner could have used me,....well could be but i would not like to think so...becuz she is a nice girl who has her own set of problems in her own world..i am in love with her and my expectations from her had increased a lot and was also being possesive about her..so i think NC with her was the best option and thats whats putting me under depression....

advice from posters here have been great and i am reading and analyzing every posts very carefully..


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## jaquen

I find it unfortunate that your posts, for awhile now, are mainly about the married woman you're cheating on your wife with.

You clearly do not have much real, deep concern for your wife. You're lying to her, you've never loved her, and your heart belongs to someone else.

Be a man. Stop BSing around and tell her the truth. Let her know that you have fallen in love with another woman, that you consider her the love of your life, and that if she were free you'd be with her. 

Then let your wife decide what she wants to do next. She might have the balls to do what you refuse to.


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## caligirl81

Sure thing - I'll definitely do that. Sorry about the interference!


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## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> I find it unfortunate that your posts, for awhile now, are mainly about the married woman you're cheating on your wife with.
> 
> You clearly do not have much real, deep concern for your wife. You're lying to her, you've never loved her, and your heart belongs to someone else.
> 
> Be a man. Stop BSing around and tell her the truth. Let her know that you have fallen in love with another woman, that you consider her the love of your life, and that if she were free you'd be with her.
> 
> Then let your wife decide what she wants to do next. She might have the balls to do what you refuse to.


Its nothing like that at all Janquen....i was just answering the posts..i definitely care about my wife, yes i do not love her but i really do care about her...i am surely going to tell her the truth but i am thinking should i do that after my therapy.

I know that i do not have future with the other married woman and we both think so and thats why i am in complete NC with her right now..and was just answering to the previous posts concerning her..thats it


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## Created2Write

Why wait until after therapy? What will have changed by then? You say you care about your wife, but your actions are proving you contradictory. If you cared about your wife at all you would do the right thing and fess up, and you wouldn't wait until after therapy to do it. You've lead your wife on and on all these years and haven't been honest with her, and now you're stalling for time. 

Let's say there was a chance that you and your wife could fall in love. (I'm not saying you should stay. I actually don't think you should. But for the sake of argument...) Let's say that there was a chance that you could fall in love with your wife. You're _*killing*_ that chance by not being honest! You have no idea what your wife has been feeling or thinking deep down because you haven't been honest with her. And maybe there isn't a chance for you to be in love. But you're being cruel to your wife by not giving her the chance to let you go. And hey, if she wants to straight up divorce you, guess what? _*SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO SO BECAUSE YOU'VE CHEATED ON HER*_. If you didn't want your wife to divorce you, the solution wasn't to cheat and hide it from her, the solution was to not cheat in the first place. 

There are consequences to the choices we make in life and you are doing your best to avoid those consequences. And that is utterly selfish and cruel.


----------



## [email protected]

Created2Write said:


> Why wait until after therapy? What will have changed by then? You say you care about your wife, but your actions are proving you contradictory. If you cared about your wife at all you would do the right thing and fess up, and you wouldn't wait until after therapy to do it. You've lead your wife on and on all these years and haven't been honest with her, and now you're stalling for time.
> 
> Let's say there was a chance that you and your wife could fall in love. (I'm not saying you should stay. I actually don't think you should. But for the sake of argument...) Let's say that there was a chance that you could fall in love with your wife. You're _*killing*_ that chance by not being honest! You have no idea what your wife has been feeling or thinking deep down because you haven't been honest with her. And maybe there isn't a chance for you to be in love. But you're being cruel to your wife by not giving her the chance to let you go. And hey, if she wants to straight up divorce you, guess what? _*SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO SO BECAUSE YOU'VE CHEATED ON HER*_. If you didn't want your wife to divorce you, the solution wasn't to cheat and hide it from her, the solution was to not cheat in the first place.
> 
> There are consequences to the choices we make in life and you are doing your best to avoid those consequences. And that is utterly selfish and cruel.


yes i agree and i know that i am being very selfish and a horrible person at this moment in everybody's eyes, i truly beleive that and i am being cruel to my wife as well...i am going to tell her but i just dont wanna hurt her upfront...i know that she will be hurt when she finds out, thats why i am afraid to tell her and trying to avoid that moment...

I guess you did not read what i wrote about my nature....
"i am emotionally a very weak person..very sensitive by heart..my problem is once i love somebody, i fall head over heals in love with that person and i get attached and then comes my expectations with that person...i know this is not a good sign and only person who will suffer in this case is me and myself..and due to this yes i am easy to take advantage of....but i dont know how to change that...*i cannot hurt somebody at all and thats why it hurts me even more*...

this is the reason why i am trying to delay cuz i dont know how to face that situation and how will i be able to see her reaction when she knows the truth...


----------



## pidge70

You've already hurt your wife, she just doesn't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> Its nothing like that at all Janquen....i was just answering the posts..i definitely care about my wife, yes i do not love her but i really do care about her...i am surely going to tell her the truth but i am thinking should i do that after my therapy.
> 
> I know that i do not have future with the other married woman and we both think so and thats why i am in complete NC with her right now..and was just answering to the previous posts concerning her..thats it


The only reason you do not have a future with the other woman is because she won't choose you over her husband.

I didn't suggest you tell your wife that you plan to leave her for the other woman. You should tell her that you want to, and that the only thing stopping you are circumstances.

Your wife deserves to know, she truly does. This isn't a case of you having some curiosities about another person. You are IN LOVE with another woman.

What do you believe your wife would feel about that?

The only reason you're not telling your wife today is that you're scared. You don't love her, and don't want to be with her anymore, but you're terrified of losing her, terrified of your family, terrified of you culture. 

I know you're scared. My God, trust me, I know how many years you can waste being paralyzed by fear.

But at some point you have to step up, face the music honestly, and get your life together. You do not need a therapist to begin doing that work. All you're doing is using the idea of getting a psychologist as a crutch to avoid facing the tough decisions in front of you.


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## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> The only reason you do not have a future with the other woman is because she won't choose you over her husband.
> 
> I didn't suggest you tell your wife that you plan to leave her for the other woman. You should tell her that you want to, and that the only thing stopping you are circumstances.
> 
> Your wife deserves to know, she truly does. This isn't a case of you having some curiosities about another person. You are IN LOVE with another woman.
> 
> What do you believe your wife would feel about that?
> 
> The only reason you're not telling your wife today is that you're scared. You don't love her, and don't want to be with her anymore, but you're terrified of losing her, terrified of your family, terrified of you culture.
> 
> I know you're scared. My God, trust me, I know how many years you can waste being paralyzed by fear.
> 
> But at some point you have to step up, face the music honestly, and get your life together. You do not need a therapist to begin doing that work. All you're doing is using the idea of getting a psychologist as a crutch to avoid facing the tough decisions in front of you.


well she wont choose me over her husband because of her kids and also same family problem back home pressurizing her to stay in the marriage and she doesnt have the courage to go beyond them....

anyways i am in NC with her now, so i will have to get over her my EA partner soon (atleast i hope so as currently i feel depressed)...

and yes i am super scared of loosing my wife, being alone and facing the wrath of family members from both sides and also concerned about my wifes future along with my kid....but ur so right someday i will have to face the music and its better i do it sooner rather than later while we both are young and can find a right partner in future who we both can love...

Trust me i am trying to gather all the courage possible to get myself ready to face the consequences...


----------



## Created2Write

[email protected] said:


> yes i agree and i know that i am being very selfish and a horrible person at this moment in everybody's eyes, i truly beleive that and i am being cruel to my wife as well...i am going to tell her but i just dont wanna hurt her upfront...i know that she will be hurt when she finds out, thats why i am afraid to tell her and trying to avoid that moment...


Being afraid is understandable. I think that every spouse is usually afraid at least a little to tell them unpleasant things, especially when those things are mistakes that have been made. 



> I guess you did not read what i wrote about my nature....
> "i am emotionally a very weak person..very sensitive by heart..my problem is once i love somebody, i fall head over heals in love with that person and i get attached and then comes my expectations with that person...i know this is not a good sign and only person who will suffer in this case is me and myself..and due to this yes i am easy to take advantage of....but i dont know how to change that...*i cannot hurt somebody at all and thats why it hurts me even more*...


I read this, I just happen to think it's completely irrelevant. We're all emotional up to a point, but that is not a legitimate excuse to continually and knowingly avoid the right thing to do. And guess what? The longer it takes you to be honest with your wife, the worse the outcome will be. 



> this is the reason why i am trying to delay cuz i dont know how to face that situation and how will i be able to see her reaction when she knows the truth...


No one knows how their spouse is going to respond to serious mistakes like this. But the longer you take to tell her the truth, the harder it's going to be to tell the truth at all. Honestly, at this point, I don't think you are going to tell her. Everyone in this thread has said the same thing to you time and time again, and even though you say you agree, you're still not doing the right thing and you continue to offer excuses. Words mean nothing at this point. Intentions mean nothing. The only thing that matters at this point in your situation is your actions. And your delaying this long is quite telling in my opinion.


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## turnera

You know, she may just as well just ignore what you tell her. She may have no intention of leaving you, and may make no changes. Hell, she may even expect you to be doing it.


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## [email protected]

Created2Write said:


> Being afraid is understandable. I think that every spouse is usually afraid at least a little to tell them unpleasant things, especially when those things are mistakes that have been made.
> 
> 
> 
> I read this, I just happen to think it's completely irrelevant. We're all emotional up to a point, but that is not a legitimate excuse to continually and knowingly avoid the right thing to do. And guess what? The longer it takes you to be honest with your wife, the worse the outcome will be.
> 
> 
> 
> No one knows how their spouse is going to respond to serious mistakes like this. But the longer you take to tell her the truth, the harder it's going to be to tell the truth at all. Honestly, at this point, I don't think you are going to tell her. Everyone in this thread has said the same thing to you time and time again, and even though you say you agree, you're still not doing the right thing and you continue to offer excuses. Words mean nothing at this point. Intentions mean nothing. The only thing that matters at this point in your situation is your actions. And your delaying this long is quite telling in my opinion.


ok i am gonna gather enough courage and tell my wife everything today...just open up my book completely in front of her....i will let her decide the future path then..wish me luck friends


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## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> The only reason you do not have a future with the other woman is because she won't choose you over her husband.
> 
> I didn't suggest you tell your wife that you plan to leave her for the other woman. You should tell her that you want to, and that the only thing stopping you are circumstances.
> 
> Your wife deserves to know, she truly does. This isn't a case of you having some curiosities about another person. You are IN LOVE with another woman.
> 
> What do you believe your wife would feel about that?
> 
> The only reason you're not telling your wife today is that you're scared. You don't love her, and don't want to be with her anymore, but you're terrified of losing her, terrified of your family, terrified of you culture.
> 
> I know you're scared. My God, trust me, I know how many years you can waste being paralyzed by fear.
> 
> But at some point you have to step up, face the music honestly, and get your life together. You do not need a therapist to begin doing that work. All you're doing is using the idea of getting a psychologist as a crutch to avoid facing the tough decisions in front of you.


ok i am gonna gather enough courage and tell my wife everything today...just open up my book completely in front of her....i will let her decide the future path then..wish me luck...i dont know what i will be writing next on this forum


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## Faithful Wife

Good luck...I sincerely mean that. And good job for doing the right thing at this crossroads in your life.


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## Created2Write

Good luck. I mean that as well. You're doing the right thing, as difficult as it may be, and as horrible as they outcome might be. Doing the right thing doesn't always benefit us initially, but in the long run we're better people. Even if the worst happens and she wants a divorce and your family shuns you, you'll have this as a learning experience. Our families don't have to live out the effects of our choices, _we_ do. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone you truly do love if this marriage doesn't work out. 

Best of luck to you and your wife.


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## sapientia

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> What is different *NOW* that makes you think you will have the guts to stand up to
> 
> your family
> her family
> your wife (now that she loves you)
> your child
> 
> WHY do you think you're strong enough to leave now? Is there someone else in the picture that you can be strong enough for (another woman)?
> 
> I hope you have/get the guts to leave! Everyone should be excited about their marriage, working on getting excited about their marriage, or getting out of their marriage.


SGW - I like your last comment so much, I'm going to borrow it as my sig. Hope you don't mind.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Don't mind at all, Sapientia! Have at it.


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## [email protected]

Created2Write said:


> Good luck. I mean that as well. You're doing the right thing, as difficult as it may be, and as horrible as they outcome might be. Doing the right thing doesn't always benefit us initially, but in the long run we're better people. Even if the worst happens and she wants a divorce and your family shuns you, you'll have this as a learning experience. Our families don't have to live out the effects of our choices, _we_ do. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone you truly do love if this marriage doesn't work out.
> 
> Best of luck to you and your wife.


Thanks but dont know what kind of learning experience in life would that be...its gonna be very difficult for my wife to digest it, even more so for my family where i stand so much respect...but i guess i will have to face the heat someday...so be it now  ..lets see where future takes me


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## [email protected]

turnera said:


> You know, she may just as well just ignore what you tell her. She may have no intention of leaving you, and may make no changes. Hell, she may even expect you to be doing it.


Well folks so finally i just told my wife everything...she didnt react much except saying that i trusted u a lot and you broke my trust...she said give me couple of days to think...i told her i will accept whatever her decision is and she again said give me couple of days to think...dont know what she is thinking but i from what i understand i doubt she will be going extreme..


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## turnera

Good for you, frank. No matter what happens, you've done the right thing - if you stay married, you can move forward together, not apart, and create a better relationship.


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## Faithful Wife

Good job, Frank. When you have made a mistake but admit to it and try to do better afterward, you can have your integrity remain intact.


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## Created2Write

Good job. I'm sure it was probably the hardest thing you've ever done, but it was the right thing to do. Going through a marital reconciliation, or even a divorce and moving on, will probably feel a lot better without the constant guilt and anxiety.


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## Mr B

SecondSkin said:


> Are you happy? I thought I had an alarming record of 10 years now with ZERO sex between me and my husband. (NO cheating either.) Aren't your kids all grown up at this point?


Do you mean I should leave and seek sex in another relationship now that my kids are grown? Remember I put off marriage until I was almost 40. I am now in my 60's. At this age the chances of finding (free) sex with someone else are slim to none. It's too late for me, I sacrificed sex for the well being of my kids.


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## jaquen

Mr B said:


> Do you mean I should leave and seek sex in another relationship now that my kids are grown? Remember I put off marriage until I was almost 40. *I am now in my 60's. At this age the chances of finding (free) sex with someone else are slim to none. *It's too late for me, I sacrificed sex for the well being of my kids.


Well that's just not true.


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## Mr B

jaquen said:


> Well that's just not true.


I guess you missed my other post. I haven't had sex for more than 20 years. So, yes, unfortunately it is true.


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## chattycathy

What is meant is being 60 years old 
does not denote
you can not find a willing, unpaid
partner.


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## jaquen

chattycathy said:


> What is meant is being 60 years old
> does not denote
> you can not find a willing, unpaid
> partner.


Exactly. There are people in their 60's who do enjoy frequent sex, and have a dating life. I know, because half of my aunts and uncles are in that age range, unmarried, and having active dating lives.

To say that you can't get sex after 60 is absurd. Just because Mr. B's wife was a sexless nightmare doesn't mean there aren't plenty of women who would enjoy sex with a 60+ year old man, especially if he's in decent, healthy shape.


----------



## Coffee Amore

jaquen said:


> Exactly. There are people in their 60's who do enjoy frequent sex, and have a dating life. I know, because half of my aunts and uncles are in that age range, unmarried, and having active dating lives.
> 
> To say that you can't get sex after 60 is absurd. Just because Mr. B's wife was a sexless nightmare doesn't mean there aren't plenty of women who would enjoy sex with a 60+ year old man, especially if he's in decent, healthy shape.


I agree. Just check out 51 Years Till Death Do Us Part thread right here on TAM in the Long Term Marriage section. Caroline who started the thread is in her 70s. She has a very active sex life with her husband. It's better than most people in their 20s or 30s! Just read her thread. It's pure gold.


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## jaquen

Coffee Amore said:


> I agree. Just check out 51 Years Till Death Do Us Part thread right here on TAM in the Long Term Marriage section. Caroline who started the thread is in her 70s. She has a very active sex life with her husband. It's better than most people in their 20s or 30s! Just read her thread. It's pure gold.


Some of the most important comments I've ever read about sexuality in marriage have come from her.


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## Mr B

Interesting. I think though, it really is hard if not impossible to get sex without paying if you prefer to have sex with women in their 30's and 40's. 60's or 70's yes I can see why they wouldn't be as picky. For one thing there are not as many men that age around as they die sooner. And the ones that are tend to prefer younger women. So men over 60 who are willing to have sex with a woman their own age might even have an advantage much like women did when we were all 17 or 18 years old.


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## SecondSkin

Mr B said:


> Do you mean I should leave and seek sex in another relationship now that my kids are grown? Remember I put off marriage until I was almost 40. I am now in my 60's. At this age the chances of finding (free) sex with someone else are slim to none. It's too late for me, I sacrificed sex for the well being of my kids.


Sorry dude. I don't call 20 years without sex as "doing it for the kids". And what exactly are you teaching your kids by going sexless "for them" for 20 years? (Rhetorical question). You didn't make a "sacrifice" for anyone except yourself. 



Mr B said:


> Interesting. I think though, it really is hard if not impossible to get sex without paying if you prefer to have sex with women in their 30's and 40's. 60's or 70's yes I can see why they wouldn't be as picky. For one thing there are not as many men that age around as they die sooner. And the ones that are tend to prefer younger women. So men over 60 who are willing to have sex with a woman their own age might even have an advantage much like women did when we were all 17 or 18 years old.


Why is it that so many men want to f*ck out of their league? If anyone has ever looked on the online dating websites, they're loaded with overweight, mediocre looking men over 45 who are looking for 'fit women 25-35 years old'. They may as well tattoo "I'm a shallow twit" across their forehead.


----------



## jaquen

Mr B said:


> Interesting. I think though, it really is hard if not* impossible to get sex without paying if you prefer to have sex with women in their 30's and 40's*.


Well yes, if you're 60 years old and single, it would be damn foolish to limit your choices to women old enough to be your children, and grand children. There are lots of available, attractive middle and later aged women available to a single sexagenarian. 

And even having said that, I think you have a very different definition of "impossible" than I do. Can all, or even most, 60 year old men frequently date, and bed, much younger women? Of course not. But besides those with fat wallets who have no problem doing so, there are well aged, fit, attractive older men that women my age, and even younger, do enjoy. When I was in my 20's I can't tell you how many women I knew who thought Sean Connery was the hottest thing going, and this was back when he was in his 60's and early 70's. 

Hot dudes, regardless of age, have doors open for them.


----------



## Thundarr

SecondSkin said:


> Why is it that so many men want to f*ck out of their league? If anyone has ever looked on the online dating websites, they're loaded with overweight, mediocre looking men over 45 who are looking for 'fit women 25-35 years old'. They may as well tattoo "I'm a shallow twit" across their forehead.


Evolution made it that way by allowing men to be fertile into old age. Older men with power and money are very successful at taking women from younger guys who are dumbfounded about it. Generally the 45 years old successful man (even balding and out of shape) could take women from his younger unestablished self.


----------



## SecondSkin

Thundarr said:


> Evolution made it that way by allowing men to be fertile into old age. Older men with power and money are very successful at taking women from younger guys who are dumbfounded about it. Generally the 45 years old successful man (even balding and out of shape) could take women from his younger unestablished self.


 

It's not really f*cking out of their league if a man has money, power, fame, or some other aspect that makes him irresistible to women. Money and power mean a man is capable of providing security for a woman. Personally, I find fat, balding, rich guys (if that's ALL they have to offer) utterly revolting. To each their own.


----------



## [email protected]

Created2Write said:


> Good job. I'm sure it was probably the hardest thing you've ever done, but it was the right thing to do. Going through a marital reconciliation, or even a divorce and moving on, will probably feel a lot better without the constant guilt and anxiety.


Here's the update folks....my wife came up with a solution...she said she is going to help me forget my EA partner and then give our relationship another 6 months of final try and then if things dont work out we can take a extreme step....

She is a really nice girl, she brokedown but didnt show much anger towards me....I really really care for her, respect her but dont love her..

I really need advise guys -:

1) I really dont know what to do...i want to give her final 6 months of try, but i really know that i will not be able to love her in those 6 months when i havent loved her for last 7 years...i dont want to tell her that upfront cuz that will be so rude to her since she is ready to forgive me and give our relationship 6 months of try....i dont know what i can do at this moment...i dont wanna break her heart completely but from my heart i know that i wont be able to love her....


----------



## turnera

[email protected] said:


> i really know that i will not be able to love her in those 6 months when i havent loved her for last 7 years...i dont want to tell her that upfront cuz that will be so rude to her since she is ready to forgive me and give our relationship 6 months of try....i dont know what i can do at this moment...i dont wanna break her heart completely but from my heart i know that i wont be able to love her....


 What you can do is be a MAN and ACCEPT her offer of 6 months and approach it like the leader of a family would - with gratitude and respect. Be honest that you don't feel the sparks, but don't just walk away because you will be harming her more than you already have in your selfishness.

And fwiw, I call bullsh*t on 'I KNOW I can never learn to love her crap. Many people fall in love who never intended to - IF they aren't already skimming the pool for a fresh catch.


----------



## turnera

And send her here so we can help her navigate this and learn how to take care of herself.


----------



## daffodilly

turnera said:


> What you can do is be a MAN and ACCEPT her offer of 6 months and approach it like the leader of a family would - with gratitude and respect. Be honest that you don't feel the sparks, but don't just walk away because you will be harming her more than you already have in your selfishness.
> 
> And fwiw, I call bullsh*t on 'I KNOW I can never learn to love her crap. Many people fall in love who never intended to - IF they aren't already skimming the pool for a fresh catch.


And if you go in deciding you will never love her....well then, you won't. So quit making that decision already. Absolutely forget the other woman....people we can't have always seem more attractive.


----------



## norajane

[email protected] said:


> Here's the update folks....my wife came up with a solution...she said she is going to help me forget my EA partner and then give our relationship another 6 months of final try and then if things dont work out we can take a extreme step....
> 
> She is a really nice girl, she brokedown but didnt show much anger towards me....I really really care for her, respect her but dont love her..
> 
> I really need advise guys -:
> 
> 1) I really dont know what to do...i want to give her final 6 months of try, but i really know that i will not be able to love her in those 6 months when i havent loved her for last 7 years...i dont want to tell her that upfront cuz that will be so rude to her since *she is ready to forgive me* and give our relationship 6 months of try....i dont know what i can do at this moment...i dont wanna break her heart completely but from my heart i know that i wont be able to love her....


No, she isn't ready to forgive you. She is in shock and her first impulse was to try to save the marriage. But that won't last. She'll come out of the shock eventually, and then she'll get angry. Very angry. Livid. She'll want to kill you in your sleep. She'll be hurt. She'll cry and become depressed. She might stop eating or will start eating too much. Then she'll get angry again. She may end up deciding she no longer wants a liar and cheater in her home.

All kinds of things will happen during the next 6 months. You have no idea what you'll be feeling or thinking at the end of it. You've only begun this ride.


----------



## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> Here's the update folks....my wife came up with a solution...she said she is going to help me forget my EA partner and then give our relationship another 6 months of final try and then if things dont work out we can take a extreme step....
> 
> She is a really nice girl, she brokedown but didnt show much anger towards me....I really really care for her, respect her but dont love her..
> 
> I really need advise guys -:
> 
> 1) I really dont know what to do...i want to give her final 6 months of try, but i really know that i will not be able to love her in those 6 months when i havent loved her for last 7 years...i dont want to tell her that upfront cuz that will be so rude to her since she is ready to forgive me and give our relationship 6 months of try....i dont know what i can do at this moment...i dont wanna break her heart completely but from my heart i know that i wont be able to love her....


You clearly don't want to do the six months, and see absolutely no point in it, so why are you contemplating doing it?

Just leave, dude. It's clearly over for you. Your wife took the affair well, as far as you can tell, and asked for six months. Yet you are still reluctant to invest even half a year in your marriage.

Just stop being a coward, and do what you know you want to do.


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## turnera

It would be more considerate to the wife, I think, to not just rush out and leave her. He owes her that much.


----------



## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> You clearly don't want to do the six months, and see absolutely no point in it, so why are you contemplating doing it?
> 
> Just leave, dude. It's clearly over for you. Your wife took the affair well, as far as you can tell, and asked for six months. Yet you are still reluctant to invest even half a year in your marriage.
> 
> Just stop being a coward, and do what you know you want to do.


Janquen, my friend...i am not a coward...i am in complete NC with my EA partner and i am trying to minimize the impact of sorrow that would incur on her, my family and hers as well...


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## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> I think your desire to, "minimize the impact of sorrow that would incur on her, my family and hers as well..." is admirable. However, I think you should remember to be honest about your feelings while in counseling.
> 
> Think back to a few weeks ago when you were agonizing over the decision to tell your wife how you felt. And now it's all out in the open!
> 
> You must continue to do the right thing and follow through with counseling, but at the same time be honest about how you feel about your wife. She needs to hear that you believe she is a good person. If you don't think you can spend the rest of your life with her, then she needs to know that too.


Zanne...now she doesnt want to do counselling...now she is saying that i dont want any third person to give us the opinion about our life.....i am being honest to her in everything..i told her that i probably dont see our future together....but she and my family wants to try out 3-6 months from scratch...which i dont know will affect anything...but even after knowing my story she wants to give our relationship a chance....i dont want to accept but at the same time i dont want to outright reject it which will make her feeling really miserable....so again i am not being a coward but want to minimize the whole impact of stressful environment that these things have caused..


----------



## mrstj4sho88

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to say but thats really not true..i have never really loved my life all these 7 years, like i said i have tried all possible ways to love her but i am just not able to. yes i have been a good husband in terms of carrying out my responsibilities but never really been happy within with our marriage, this emotional affair came in after a long time which made me realize where i stand with my marriage, i just want to be happy and live my life with the person i really love and i can give complete justice to. that maynot necessarily the person i am having emotional affair with.


*You are living in a dream world that other woman is not leaving her husband for you. You gone destory your family ,break up your childs' home and you don't see your selfish ways. The looking for other women online was wrong . You think the grass is perfect on the other side. But you forget you don't really know the OW. You only know what that other woman allows you to see. It was something about your wife you liked ( a child tells us so). You have not been a good husband all online looking for other females. Just know your wife might not give you a second change. I have to ask have you ever been happy with life? You sound like a man making excuses for the EA. You have already checked out of the marriage. Just stop hurting your wife leave the home. *


----------



## [email protected]

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *You are living in a dream world that other woman is not leaving her husband for you. You gone destory your family ,break up your childs' home and you don't see your selfish ways. The looking for other women online was wrong . You think the grass is perfect on the other side. But you forget you don't really know the OW. You only know what that other woman allows you to see. It was something about your wife you liked ( a child tells us so). You have not been a good husband all online looking for other females. Just know your wife might not give you a second change. I have to ask have you ever been happy with life? You sound like a man making excuses for the EA. You have already checked out of the marriage. Just stop hurting your wife leave the home. *


I guess u havent read the whole thing...i am in complete NC with my EA from more than 2 weeks now and i know there is no future with my EA partner...i have also told my wife everything and i am trying to find a amicable solution


----------



## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> Well, now I think you are being controlled again. Your wife probably thinks that her biggest allies are family and she thinks that will be enough to keep you there.


I am trying to convince her for doing MC....
but honestly she has been very variable with her thoughts from past few days since i have told her everything...one time of the day she says, i am not going to be in your life for more time now so just be happy of whatever time we have together and then another time of the day she says i am never gonna leave u, after you come out of thoughts about your EA partner, u'll be better again....
and then very next day she says i am not selfish to keep you and hold you in the marriage just because i love you and you dont...if you have never loved me then i dont want to hold you in the marriage for my selfish reasons...and then again few hours later.....she says i have never thought of living my life without you...

I understand her concerns about her future (partially due to our culture as well) and how her family will react to these things as she has been telling her family everything is fine between us....
but i am still stuck at the same crossroads


----------



## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> but i am still stuck at the same crossroads


Nothing as changed because you are still in the same boat as you were 7 years ago.

You do not love this woman.

Before the EA, you did not love this woman.

Before you married her, you did not love this woman.

Nothing you've been able to say, or do, has made you start loving this woman.

You made a huge mistake marrying this woman, because you did it under emotional blackmail, duress, and cultural pressure.

Now here you are, living in the United States, surrounded by people who live freer lives, and it's extremely hard to watch everyone making the choices they want, while you're stuck with the choices you let other people bully you into.

I feel for you. I always have felt for you. I feel very bad for your wife too. You both made a huge mistake.

But there is no reason to continue making this mistake. You are so miserable. Why would your wife even want to stay with someone who DOES NOT want her?


----------



## norajane

> But there is no reason to continue making this mistake. You are so miserable. Why would your wife even want to stay with someone who DOES NOT want her?


Probably because of the same cultural pressures that made her agree to marry a stranger. And they have a child now. And it seems she does have feelings for him.

I happen to agree with you, but I really don't know what her life would be like, and their child's life, if they divorced in their particular culture. That might be worse than being married to a man she loves, a man who is the father of her child. Divorce might not be as easy for her in her culture as it for me in mine.

Also, if this is the first she's hearing of how he never loved her and never will, she might need some time to absorb what that means. She might think he's in affair fog and will change his mind when he comes out.


----------



## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> Nothing as changed because you are still in the same boat as you were 7 years ago.
> 
> You do not love this woman.
> 
> Before the EA, you did not love this woman.
> 
> Before you married her, you did not love this woman.
> 
> Nothing you've been able to say, or do, has made you start loving this woman.
> 
> You made a huge mistake marrying this woman, because you did it under emotional blackmail, duress, and cultural pressure.
> 
> Now here you are, living in the United States, surrounded by people who live freer lives, and it's extremely hard to watch everyone making the choices they want, while you're stuck with the choices you let other people bully you into.
> 
> I feel for you. I always have felt for you. I feel very bad for your wife too. You both made a huge mistake.
> 
> But there is no reason to continue making this mistake. You are so miserable. Why would your wife even want to stay with someone who DOES NOT want her?



it is really a very rough situation for me and as far as can understand i can see few reasons for her not to end this marriage -:

1) She has told her family that everything is fine, she is afraid to break out the news to her family

2) Like i mentioned above, she has never imagined her life without me so she doesnt know what next steps to take for herself and my daughter, maybe more culturally then financially cuz she has pretty good job and earns pretty much the same salary as me

3) It is true that divorce is hard in our culture more towards women then men, so will she get another man who can love her or whom she can love is maybe another question that may be going on in her mind.....

i understand all her dilemmas as well...now i will have to wait for her to recover until she gets clarity in her thoughts.... 

-- I am not sure if MC will help her get that clarity in her thoughts..
and if yes then should we try to find a counsellor who is familiar with our culture or that should not matter?


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## Lyris

I think counselling or mediation would be a really good idea, even if you are just going in to it with the goal of achieving a good, co-operative, co-parenting relationship post-divorce. 

Where I live, mediation between divorcing parents is mandatory. There are classes you can take too. Is there anyone from your culture that you know who has divorced and might have some advice? If not, yes, definitely a counsellor experienced in working with separating couples.


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## curlysue321

She deserves better than you. Passionate love only lasts a couple of years and then a good marriage is left if there is a strong friendship and respect for one another. I have a feeling you will never be happy long term if you are not happy now.


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## norajane

[email protected] said:


> -- I am not sure if MC will help her get that clarity in her thoughts..
> and if yes then *should we try to find a counsellor who is familiar with our culture *or that should not matter?


I think that would be ideal. Someone familiar with your culture will save you a lot of time and energy (and money) explaining it to the counselor. Even with explanations, the nuances can be subtle to grasp.


----------



## [email protected]

norajane said:


> I think that would be ideal. Someone familiar with your culture will save you a lot of time and energy (and money) explaining it to the counselor. Even with explanations, the nuances can be subtle to grasp.


so what do this marriage counsellor would exactly do? i mean do they listen to the whole story from both the sides and then give their opinion whether we should split or would they try to reconcile the marriage first under any circumstances?


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## turnera

I imagine they wouldn't let you get away with your preconceived notions, either of you. Rather, they'd have you discuss your issues in different ways, to see if you're just saying what's comfortable, or if there really are irreconcilable issues. Get to know the 'real' truth, rather than what either of you says it is.


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## jaquen

curlysue321 said:


> She deserves better than you. Passionate love only lasts a couple of years and then a good marriage is left if there is a strong friendship and respect for one another. I have a feeling you will never be happy long term if you are not happy now.


It's very irresponsible for you to be telling people it's OK to live in a loveless marriage. This man says he has never felt love for his wife, and only married her under duress from his family. According to him, he never even had any "passionate love" in the first place to lose.

You are recommending somebody stay in a bad marriage. Perhaps you should be honest about your own situation that you think this is OK.


----------



## norajane

[email protected] said:


> so what do this marriage counsellor would exactly do? i mean do they listen to the whole story from both the sides and then give their opinion whether we should split or would they try to reconcile the marriage first under any circumstances?


No, they do NOT tell you whether you should split or reconcile!

They help you and your wife decide whether you should split or reconcile. And they help you work through the process with you, either way.

MC is about communication and understanding and perspective and challenging you to FACE what you are going through with open eyes and honesty.

But you have to do that hard work of making a decision with your wife.


----------



## [email protected]

norajane said:


> No, they do NOT tell you whether you should split or reconcile!
> 
> They help you and your wife decide whether you should split or reconcile. And they help you work through the process with you, either way.
> 
> MC is about communication and understanding and perspective and challenging you to FACE what you are going through with open eyes and honesty.
> 
> But you have to do that hard work of making a decision with your wife.


Here is the update -: 

We're going for first session of MC on Saturday...

but from all the scenarios at home, it seems i will end up sacrificing my happiness and i wont be able to stand up for myself this time as well....

After disclosing everything to my wife, she had asked time to think, even after what happenned with me over the years...she is ready to continue with this marriage for following reasons....

1) She still loves me and have never imagined living by herself without me and asking me to try to love her

2) If we seperate then she doesnt know if she will be able to love somebody else or trust somebody else or even get married in future even though she is only 29 right now.

3) She has that impression that if we seperate, in future if she decides to get married, she will only find a guy who has a kid or kids, she wont be able to find a unmarried guy..(which may or may not be true in our culture...not entirely sure about that)

4) how will my daughter be able to say daddy to anybody else, it will be so hard for her...

5) My dad and my sister will break relation with me if i seperate from my wife...

6) my wifes mother wont be able to bear the shock, what kind of reason will she give to her relatives and society...


We're going to a MC which belongs to a similar culture and dont know what her opinion would be...

but as far as i can say from current situation, everybody else will be happy if i continue living the way i was in the past....i can see that happenning from the above 6 points i mentioned...


----------



## turnera

Then just leave.


----------



## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> Everybody else will be happy because they are looking out for their own best interests. Of course your wife is not going to let you leave without a fight. She's content to keep you even if you are unhappy. What does that say?


Everybody else will be happy because they will avoid going thru the pain of disintegration in the family and avoid broadcasting the problems to the other relatives...

My wife will be happy because she wont have to tell anything to her parents and brother and life will carry on like before and also because my daughter wont have to go thru the seperation process...

She will not get hostile....she will fight it out emotionally...will try to stop me with all the emotions involved...yesterday she told me that your decision of seperation will give so much pain and sufferring to her and all the people involved in our lives because herself and everybody else loves me so much....


----------



## alte Dame

Social pressure is generally there to help us in life. In your case, though, your culture and family have put you in an emotional prison. You have acquiesced in this all these years for understandable reasons. I know there are millions of people in the world who will say that your life is just fine, they do it & it's OK.

You're not in real prison, though, and since you don't in your heart think it's OK, you want to make your own choices here. If you stay with your W, you already think you know what the future holds for you. If you leave, much of your future is unknown. You're hoping that you'll find real love for a woman in a new life & this could well be the case.

So, balance it out - is the possibility of real love and a fulfilling family life worth being ostracized by your family?

For people in my culture, the answer is usually 'yes.' It would be for me. I would take the unknown possibility over the known dissatisfaction.


----------



## [email protected]

Zanne said:


> Well, it's very sad indeed, to see a family fall apart. That is why you received a lot of advice to think carefully about your decision.
> 
> If you stay, you need to be happy with that choice and put the "what ifs" to rest. It can be done if you're willing.
> 
> But if you feel after all this time of reflecting and asking for advice that you will not be happy unless you are free to live outside of your marriage, then do it.
> 
> If you had a son, what would you want him to do?


lets see what happens in the MC..i hope that will give a clear picture to me and my wife as well......we have found somebody who understands the culture and its details...

i have a daughter and doesnt matter if i had a son, i would still advice them to take their own decision so they can cherish it or regret it depending on the decision they made...so then they have nobody else to blame but themselves if something goes wrong...i would always be available if they need advise.....


----------



## turnera

Just make sure you make it VERY CLEAR to this MC how utterly unhappy you have been your whole marriage. He NEEDS to understand that, to see the real truth.


----------



## This is me

Some people are marriage centered, some family centered, some work centered and some self centered. Happiness comes from within.

Some truths exist in all cultures. THE EMOTIONAL AFFAIR is a powerful detaching mechanism, which creates rewritten histories and dramatic statements to justify bad behaviors.

I stand by my earliest posts. The culture card does not fly with me.


----------



## jaquen

[email protected] said:


> Here is the update -:
> 
> We're going for first session of MC on Saturday...
> 
> but from all the scenarios at home, it seems i will end up sacrificing my happiness and i wont be able to stand up for myself this time as well....
> 
> After disclosing everything to my wife, she had asked time to think, even after what happenned with me over the years...she is ready to continue with this marriage for following reasons....
> 
> 1) She still loves me and have never imagined living by herself without me and asking me to try to love her
> 
> 2) If we seperate then she doesnt know if she will be able to love somebody else or trust somebody else or even get married in future even though she is only 29 right now.
> 
> 3) She has that impression that if we seperate, in future if she decides to get married, she will only find a guy who has a kid or kids, she wont be able to find a unmarried guy..(which may or may not be true in our culture...not entirely sure about that)
> 
> 4) how will my daughter be able to say daddy to anybody else, it will be so hard for her...
> 
> 5) My dad and my sister will break relation with me if i seperate from my wife...
> 
> 6) my wifes mother wont be able to bear the shock, what kind of reason will she give to her relatives and society...
> 
> 
> We're going to a MC which belongs to a similar culture and dont know what her opinion would be...
> 
> but as far as i can say from current situation, everybody else will be happy if i continue living the way i was in the past....i can see that happenning from the above 6 points i mentioned...



You are very good at being emotionally manipulated by other people. You let your mother manipulate you into marrying this woman, using her illness as blackmail.

You let your family, and her family, pressure you into marrying somebody you knew you didn't love, and did not want to enter into matrimony with.

Now you're allowing your wife to manipulate you into remaining married to her. She does not care at all about your personal happiness, or your well being. She is scared, and she is selfish. It takes an extremely selfish person to know that another person is miserable being with them, and STILL expect them to stay for the rest of their lives. If she truly loved you, as hard as it would be, she'd be willing to let you go.

This is why I said earlier that you need to drop the cowardice. Right now you are allowing everybody in your life to manipulate the hell out of you. But the only control they have over you is the control that you allow them.

If you're going to stay, suck it up, and stay. But know that this will be YOUR decision. Not your wife's. Not her family's. Not your family's.* Your* choice.


----------



## [email protected]

jaquen said:


> You are very good at being emotionally manipulated by other people. You let your mother manipulate you into marrying this woman, using her illness as blackmail.
> 
> You let your family, and her family, pressure you into marrying somebody you knew you didn't love, and did not want to enter into matrimony with.
> 
> Now you're allowing your wife to manipulate you into remaining married to her. She does not care at all about your personal happiness, or your well being. She is scared, and she is selfish. It takes an extremely selfish person to know that another person is miserable being with them, and STILL expect them to stay for the rest of their lives. If she truly loved you, as hard as it would be, she'd be willing to let you go.
> 
> This is why I said earlier that you need to drop the cowardice. Right now you are allowing everybody in your life to manipulate the hell out of you. But the only control they have over you is the control that you allow them.
> 
> If you're going to stay, suck it up, and stay. But know that this will be YOUR decision. Not you're wife. Not her family's. Not your family's.* Your* choice.


I completely agree with you Janquen..and i hate myself for being a coward taking a decision for myself becuz all i am thinking right now is about bunch of nice people who love me and thats my family and how sad they're gonna be when i take a decision.

but i am going to make it very clear in the MC and have her tell my wife how i feel rather than me telling her all the time and her getting depressed.

i think sometimes it makes a better impact if the MC tells her about my feelings and what we should be doing in future which will make lives better for both of us.

as of now my wife has reluctantly agreed to do MC because according to her she knows what the outcome is going to be, but we're going for MC this Saturday.


----------



## This is me

jaquen said:


> You are very good at being emotionally manipulated by other people.


I have thought through this whole thread that some here on TAM have been manipulated by the OP's story. 

As if cheating in another culture makes it acceptable to cheat.

Arranged marriages or not. Its the detachment from the AFFAIR that is where it all starts.


----------



## Created2Write

Honestly Frank, you have two options:

1. Be honest with your wife and the MC, and not just verbally. You can talk about how unhappy you are all day long and it won't change a thing. You can try to make yourself some kind of victim so that you have a lot of pity, but none of that will help or change your circumstances. So you can either choose to *just leave*, and take a good amount of time working on yourself. 

Or 

2. You can choose to stay in this marriage, but if you do that, as jacquen said, it need to be _your_ choice. And not some half-hearted, halfa$$ed choice. You either need to 100% commit to your wife and your marriage and make the absolute best out of it that you can, or you need to 100% commit to leaving, regardless of what anyone else says. 

This wishy-washy, "I'm not happy but I don't have the integrity to make a fully committed decision" is not okay. Whatever decision you make it needs to be 100% your decision. That's my opinion, anyway.


----------



## jaquen

This is me said:


> I have thought through this whole thread that some here on TAM have been manipulated by the OP's story.
> 
> *As if cheating in another culture makes it acceptable to cheat.
> *
> Arranged marriages or not. Its the detachment from the AFFAIR that is where it all starts.


Name one single person, in this entire thread, who said that his cheating was alright, or justified.

I'll wait.


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## zappy88200

Kevin - You will ruin 3 lives here...yours, your wife's and your daughter's.
Don't divorce.

Zappy


----------



## [email protected]

This is me said:


> I have thought through this whole thread that some here on TAM have been manipulated by the OP's story.
> 
> As if cheating in another culture makes it acceptable to cheat.
> 
> Arranged marriages or not. Its the detachment from the AFFAIR that is where it all starts.


This is me...i understand that you are super pro-marriage and i appreciate your thoughts and applaud your beliefs...

I do partially agree that i got detached from my wife because of my EA, but like i had said earlier, i am in NC with my EA partner from almost a month and it worked as a trigger for me that made me realize that i have to stand up for myself now which i havent been able to do for past 7 years right from when i agreed to get married until my EA happenned.

your theory of detachment is right when you consider last 3 months which my EA lasted but what about the discontent i had been feeling for past so many years, how would you define that?

Now i agree that i should have stood up in the past which i wasnt able to do because of family reasons and social and cultural pressure, but does that mean i should never stand up for myself and live a loveless marriage 
or 
would you say that i should make an effort to start loving my life now which i havent been able to do in past 7 years after trying every possible way?


----------



## Created2Write

Frank, you are ABSOLUTELY able to stand for yourself. You continue to choose not to and you use your family as an excuse. I get the idea of social pressure, family pressure, religious pressure, yadda yadda yadda. And I get that it's scary. But that does not change the fact that there only two ethical choices here, and choosing to blame your family is a cop out. 

Either commit 100% to your wife and make the best marriage you can, make yourself happy, choose to be happy with where you're at and show love to your wife, OR commit 100% to leaving. You are causing so much damage to yourself and your wife by not devoting yourself to either choice. Staying married because of pressure, while wishing you could be out of the marriage for the rest of your life, is only going to hurt EVERYONE. Stop blaming everyone else around you, take some ownership of your life, and make a decision. Either leave and work on your emotional issues, or stay and devote yourself 100% to your marriage.


----------



## jaquen

zappy88200 said:


> Kevin - You will ruin 3 lives here...yours, your wife's and your daughter's.
> Don't divorce.
> 
> Zappy


So your recommendation is that he stay in a marriage he was coerced into, a marriage he never wanted (and in case some of you didn't read, his wife initially didn't want it either), stay with a woman who doesn't care that he's miserable, and basically commit to being unhappy for the remainder of his days?


----------



## jaquen

Zanne said:


> Well Jaquen, according to advice I've read elsewhere in this forum, he could be happy if he wanted to be happy. If he chooses to stay with his wife, then he must find his happiness and as you said, "But know that this will be YOUR decision."


I suppose that's where I am getting tripped up. I do not believe this. If it were that easy to generate happiness people would find it even in abusive situations, or when married to chronic adulterers, or when they end up homeless on the street. We are all responsible for our own happiness, but it's totally unrealistic to expect that this happiness is devoid of outside influence.

I guess this is up there with that "love is an action, not a feeling" platitude that I see posted around here, and I don't believe that either.

I think a lot of the advice on TAM is geared toward advising people how to make the best out of bad marriages.




Zanne said:


> Likewise if he moves on, he can't blame his loved ones for making him feel guilty either. I think he has demonstrated his desire to be free of his marriage and he should leave. His wife will be fine. She has a good paying job and obviously the support of family.


That's what I see. His desire is clear. The confusion has never even been about his desire, but rather what to do about his desire.

His desire was to NOT marry this woman seven years ago. That hasn't changed.


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## Created2Write

I believe that any marriage can be successful, even if one or both people don't "feel" love, and even if one person no longer wants to be in the marriage, or never wanted to to begin with. If we all just followed our hearts whenever we didn't "feel" love, I don't think any marriage would survive. I absolutely believe that love is a choice AND a feeling. We can choose to put our all into the marriage and try our absolute hardest to show love to our spouse, and I believe it is absolutely possible to create love where it was once nonexistent. But it takes total commitment, which is something I don't think he's had here. And, sometimes, it doesn't work. Unfortunately I think Frank may be at a place where it's just too late. He's been too complacent for too long.

Either you're willing to push as hard as you can, despite what you're fleeting feelings tell you, or you're not. The sitting in the middle being complacent and allowing others to run your life is where the issue lies. He would do better to leave, and fix himself, than just stay due to pressure. 

Honestly, I prefer to see husbands and wives fight tooth and nail to save their marriages and try to build love than just give up and leave, but in this case I just don't think he's even that willing to give all he has to his marriage. He's so focused on being unhappy(which can be fixed in this kind of a situation) that he's missing a big opportunity, imo. 

A lot of marriages can be deemed "bad marriages". Whether or not they become good marriages is based entirely on the spouses themselves. They either want a good marriage and will fight to make one, or they don't. And either their efforts will work, or they won't. And if it doesn't at least they can say they gave it everything they had. But, my opinion.


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## Thundarr

I think OP is having a hard time pulling the trigger on this because making the choice to be alone is scary. What if the grass isn't greener or even green. I think it's the same reason he ended up in the marriage to begin with (maybe added peer pressure as well). The result though is that he felt like he settled which is true to a degree. I think maybe he sees that he played a part in this though.

Living life afraid to make a move is not very fulfilling. At least it wasn't during times I've lived it that way.


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## Emerald

I read your original post & all of the responses.

You don't have the courage to leave.

Maybe you will in the future but IMHO, you are trying to get your wife to "agree" to end the marriage. 

That way you won't be the "bad guy" to family & friends.

Doesn't work that way as you are finding out. I tried to get my husband to "mutually divorce" for 10 years. He didn't want a divorce just like your wife doesn't. So I left. Hardest thing I ever did. I even took my lumps as the "bad guy." I had all the same fears about leaving as you do.

I hope that someday you find the courage to leave your unhappy marriage.

As for "cultural differences" I cannot speak about that because I am not familiar with your culture.


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## This is me

[email protected] said:


> your theory of detachment is right when you consider last 3 months which my EA lasted but what about the discontent i had been feeling for past so many years, how would you define that?


I would define that as foggy memory. My marriage of 17 years was above average. Good partnership, loving relationship, great memories....after her EA and the detachment, her recollection of our marriage was completely different. As if all those years were awful.

Now that you have complicated your marriage with the affair, you have mud on your face and the human nature that allowed the cheating will also produce the excuses going forward. 

There is light if you want to see it.


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## jaquen

This is me said:


> I would define that as foggy memory. My marriage of 17 years was above average. Good partnership, loving relationship, great memories....after her EA and the detachment, her recollection of our marriage was completely different. As if all those years were awful.


Did you actually read this whole thread? The man is from a culture where it's perfectly acceptable to arrange marriages, regardless of how the potential spouses feel. He does admit there was some choice, but his ill mother, and family, pressured him into marriage as a young man. Did you also miss the part where his wife didn't want to marry either, but likewise buckled under coercion? Even she didn't want this marriage.

Some arranged marriages work out. Some, like this one, feature one, or both, parties suffering their entire lives under cultural, or religious, pressure.

You need to stop projecting your pain onto this situation. What happened to you, and your wife, has nothing to do with the circumstances this man has fallen into. His EA is wrong, but it came way late in the game.

You're ignoring key parts of his story about his life, all to pigeonhole him into your painful situation. That's doing this man no good at all.


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## This is me

jaquen said:


> Name one single person, in this entire thread, who said that his cheating was alright, or justified.
> 
> I'll wait.


jaquen!


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## jaquen

This is me said:


> jaquen!


Quote me where I said it was right for him to cheat.


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## *LittleDeer*

This is me said:


> I have thought through this whole thread that some here on TAM have been manipulated by the OP's story.
> 
> As if cheating in another culture makes it acceptable to cheat.
> 
> Arranged marriages or not. Its the detachment from the AFFAIR that is where it all starts.


Agreed.
Arranged marriage or not this guy is a cheater and has probably rewritten history like all cheaters do.

He's not being fair to his marraige or wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected]

Thundarr said:


> I think what "this is me" is saying is that maybe frank's story would not have been what we've read had he posted it before the EA.
> 
> However, I think the marriage has run it's course just like you do.


You're right Thandarr...i probably woudnt have posted this thread at all had i not been involved in an EA...

Because i had written before that even though i was unahppy and didnt feel the love and chemistry in my marriage, i kept fulfillling my responsibilities and was living my day to day life as a robot and everybody thought i was happy while infact i was not at all happy but didnt have the courage to stand up for myself...

EA worked as a trigger for me which made me realize that i need to do something about this marriage or else i will be doing injustice to myself and even my wife living a loveless marriage...i know the realization came a little late and i woke up after 7 years but i think i am only 31 and my wife is 29, we both are young and still have a chance to find true love..if i cannot stand up now, it probably will be never...

Now if my marriage ends and i go back to my EA then i will take the blame for my character and i will take all the character assasination from people..but thats not gonna be the case...
and no i did not rewite the history...all i wrote was absolutely the fact..i poured my heart out completely....


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## jaquen

I'm sorry, but it's a sad damn day on TAM when somebody comes on, admits that they were pushed into a marriage in their early 20's that they never wanted, nor did their spouse want, via some pretty hefty emotional blackmail, and they get told that these facts are pretty much discounted because they're in an affair fog.

Affair fogs can be powerful, but they can not create the type of situation the OP is describing that happened before they ever got married.

The affair fog didn't create a false memory of his mother using her illness to coerce him into marrying somebody he didn't want to, so she could see him wed before her death.

Affair fog didn't create the culture he's from, where arranged marriages are typical, regardless of how people feel about their spouses.

Affair fog doesn't change the fact that his wife initially didn't want to be with him either.

This man was obviously in a terrible situation BEFORE marriage.

I mean, come on guys.


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## janiliya

jaquen said:


> I'm sorry, but it's a sad damn day on TAM when somebody comes on, admits that they were pushed into a marriage in their early 20's that they never wanted, nor did their spouse want, via some pretty hefty emotional blackmail, and they get told that these facts are pretty much discounted because they're in an affair fog.
> 
> Affair fogs can be powerful, but they can not create the type of situation the OP is describing that happened before they ever got married.
> 
> The affair fog didn't create a false memory of his mother using her illness to coerce him into marrying somebody he didn't want to, so she could see him wed before her death.
> 
> Affair fog didn't create the culture he's from, where arranged marriages are typical, regardless of how people feel about their spouses.
> 
> Affair fog doesn't change the fact that his wife initially didn't want to be with him either.
> 
> This man was obviously in a terrible situation BEFORE marriage.
> 
> I mean, come on guys.


Maybe he was coerced into marrying his wife.
but every marriage is a commitment and whether he liked it or not he COMMITTED himself to the woman he was marrying. Marriage is a commitment to be by the side of your spouse through thick and thin and in this case the wife has done nothing wrong. WHen things have not changed in these 7 years then why is he shirking from his commitment?
Or take this: Would he not continue being the same unloving husband had he not gotten into an EA with this other woman? He would have. Therefore the question here is not about how he got married but about how honest he has been in this marriage. It looks like he has really only been pretending his marriage to the world but never really accepted and made peace with his marriage.

Regards,
Janiliya
____________________________________________
Practical Ways to Happiness
--------------------------
Black, White and Grey


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## janiliya

Zanne said:


> I agree. Many arranged marriages are successful, and I think this marriage could be saved if not for the emphatic view of the OP that he will not be happy sharing his life with his current wife. In our westernized view, the easy solution is to divorce her.
> 
> After all, he has a right to be happy.
> 
> In this situation, I can't help but wonder how our culture which is infused with our ability to make our own choices - and with so many "options" to choose from, has influenced the OP's views about his marriage. He has one foot in this culture and one in the culture of his home.


Yes. You cannot sail if you are feet are in 2 different boats. I have myself had an arranged marriage and can understand the disconnect he feels with his wife but instead of trying and working on connecting with each other he has sought this connection outside. 
What he has to understand is that every marriage needs effort from both parties to survive. In the long run, how you married is not as important as how much you are willing to make the marriage work. 
Love always follows the cycle of lust and attraction, the "HIGHS". The cycle of marriage requires being able to stick around during the "LOWS" and this is not possible if there is no connect with the partner. 
Frank, if you still feel you do not want to try to make this marriage work then its time you call it quits but remember you will have to invest time in making a connection - be it on numerous dates before the wedding OR getting to know each other after marriage.
Good luck.

Regards,
Janiliya
_________________________________

Read on for Practical Ways to Happiness
----------------------------------------
Black, White and Grey


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## jaquen

Zanne said:


> I agree. Many arranged marriages are successful, and I think this marriage could be saved if not for the emphatic view of the OP that he will not be happy sharing his life with his current wife. In our westernized view, the easy solution is to divorce her.
> 
> After all, he has a right to be happy.
> 
> In this situation, I can't help but wonder how our culture which is infused with our ability to make our own choices - and with so many "options" to choose from, has influenced the OP's views about his marriage. He has one foot in this culture and one in the culture of his home.
> 
> All along I have felt that if he is truly stifled by his marriage, then he should divorce his wife and begin his new life. But, to be clear, my opinion is influenced by my American view of entitlement to happiness. Not saying that it's wrong. But there it is.


Absolutely. 

But I think, from page one, the OP made it clear that he did have options. He was pushed into marrying this woman, but never highlighted as a matter of force. He could have said no, despite pressure, but chose not to.

He also live in New York.

The advice given would very different if this man was actually living in a country where his arranged marriage came with zero choice, and the consequences for leaving could be detrimental to his, her, and their children's, well being.



janiliya said:


> Maybe he was coerced into marrying his wife.
> but every marriage is a commitment and whether he liked it or not he COMMITTED himself to the woman he was marrying. Marriage is a commitment to be by the side of your spouse through thick and thin and in this case the wife has done nothing wrong. WHen things have not changed in these 7 years then why is he shirking from his commitment?



I do not believe his wife has "done nothing wrong". Based off the details given, I think she has done, and is doing, plenty wrong.


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## janiliya

turnera said:


> One thing you MUST understand.
> 
> An affair is enticing for one main reason: It's a fantasy.
> 
> There are no babies to diaper or feed at 3am.
> 
> There are no bills to pay or argue over how much the other spent.
> 
> There are no heads of your spouse to hold over the toilet when they have the flu, or vomit to clean up if they don't get there in time and are too weak to clean it up themselves.
> 
> There are no day-to-day drudgeries like seeing each other before shaving or with body odor. No tiny arguments that remain in the back of your head for 20 years and taint your image of that person. No events of your spouse LoveBusting you so that you resent them. No occasions where your spouse took you for granted and failed to meet your Emotional Needs.
> 
> In your fantasy, the EA partner is wonderful. Butterflies and rainbows. On their best behavior - as we ALL are when we are DATING (which is what you are doing).
> 
> When you marry someone, you agree to love them when they are ON their best behavior, and when they AREN'T. What's happened to you is that you stopped being on your best behavior, your wife withdrew and stopped meeting your ENs, you both grew resentments and took each other for granted, and, suddenly, here's this nice new shiny Lamborgini against which the old Ford can't compete. But marriage isn't supposed to be ABOUT shiny and new. It's supposed to be about 'better and worse.' You're supposed to love that person enough that you'll STILL love them even when someone drives past with the Lamborgini.
> 
> You forgot that along the way (or never learned it), and now you're inside the emotional addiction of your affair and your affair fog has got you rewriting your history. Your integrity is now in question. And there's only one way out of this in which you can KEEP the shreds of your integrity that are left - to end all communication with your OW. Even if you end up leaving your wife, ending contact with OW is the only decent solution here. Because no matter how you end up with OW, it will be a tainted relationship and EVERYONE will know what you did. For the rest of your life.


So very well said. Something that every married person needs to understand.

Regards,
Janiliya

Read on for Practical Ways to Happiness
___________________________________
Black, White and Grey


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## janiliya

jaquen said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> But I think, from page one, the OP made it clear that he did have options. He was pushed into marrying this woman, but never highlighted as a matter of force. He could have said no, despite pressure, but chose not to.
> 
> He also live in New York.
> 
> The advice given would very different if this man was actually living in a country where his arranged marriage came with zero choice, and the consequences for leaving could be detrimental to his, her, and their children's, well being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe his wife has "done nothing wrong". Based off the details given, I think she has done, and is doing, plenty wrong.


I have not been able to read all the posts in this thread so I might have missed out on the "wrong" of the wife. My apologies for the same.
What I am trying to say is that he definitely has every right to leave his wife and seek greener pastures but he has to make sure that he has in all HONESTY tried to make this marriage work. If he has been from the very beginning adamant that this marriage is not of his choice and will therefore not work, then that prejudiced nature is something that he needs to work on.

Regards,
Janiliya.

Read on for Practical Ways to Happiness
----------------------------------------
Black, White and Grey


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## Kelgirl

[email protected] said:


> ok every one here is thinking that because i am in an emotional affair i am having that feeling that i have never loved my wife, but really honestly thats not true at all. Even if i am not able to marry this another women who is married and has 2 kids, i would still think that i have never loved my wife.
> 
> I am really opening up here.
> Ever since the day i have been engaged, i dont really like to be with her, i dont like to spend time with her. whenever she used to go away for few days to her mothers place, i used to feel happy, last year she went out of the country for a month, i was feeling excited about her leaving, not cuz she is nagging or something like that, she is very calm but its cuz i just dont love her, i like to be by myself.
> now if i really loved my wife, why would i want her to be away from me, rather i would love to spend time with her, would love to go on a drive with her, would love to talk to her, would like to hold her hand and walk on the streets with her, would like to introduce her to all my friends.......all these are feelings which are just not coming into me, and its been 7 years and they havent come to me at all.
> 
> Now thats not normal in a marriage, and no i am not being inspired by a hollywood movie, All these things a normal which most happy couples do, isnt it?


*Frank I can relate to what you are going through and it is tough. I have been married for 28 years and in those years I cannot tell you how many times my husband has told me he love me. I really don't remember... He's not affectionate with me at all. I know he cares for me but I don't think he deeply love me.. I know he's not inlove with me.. The feeling is mutual I care for him deeply but not in-love with him. We are more like roommates than husband and wife.

I am going to counseling to help me deal with this. My husband is so distant which makes me distant as well. I mean we have general conversations but nothing intimate conversations at all. I have tried to open up to him as far as how I feel but he don't want to hear it because he thinks everything is fine. I ask him about counseling but he is against it.

I do have a special male friend that I have know for 30+ years..we are Soulmates. No we are not having a EA. He lives in a different State and hear from each other from time to time. And yes.. talking to him helps me to realize how much my marriage is lacking. Its ok if my husband don't love me anymore or want out.. but I don't either of us have the courage to leave.. we have been together for so long. But he may end up leaving.. I dunno. But I know something has to change.. Living in a loveless marriage is rough. 

Frank I applaude you for being honest with yourself. Have you been honest with your wife and tell her you don't love her? I think the best thing you can do for her is leave....ONLY IF YOU FEEL THERE IS NO HOPE. The longer you stay, the harder it will be on you and her. 

The problem you guys have is you did not love each other from the start - although she learned to love you but the feeling is not mutual..and you cannot make yourself love someone...true love comes naturally...you don't have to face it*


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## Kelgirl

Oops i meant you don't have to force it.. True love comes naturally,


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## Eagles_Fly

turnera said:


> Maybe they can't. But it you spend even 15 minutes a day pining for another person besides your spouse, (1) that is 15 minutes your spouse didn't get, (2) it just altered how you feel about your spouse (revising history), and (3) it causes you to withdraw from your spouse.


 What? Are you saying that if you're married you never fantasize or think about another person (other than your spouse) romantically? I didn't think that was possible. Maybe I'm completely odd. There are a few other men in this world that I find incredibly sexy and I think about them. It doesn't change the way I feel about my husband. The only thing that causes me to withdraw from my husband (who I find very attractive) is his behavior. That said, I've had a major crush on a certain celebrity for 36 years and that's never going to change.


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## This is me

Eagles_Fly said:


> What? Are you saying that if you're married you never fantasize or think about another person (other than your spouse) romantically? I didn't think that was possible. Maybe I'm completely odd. There are a few other men in this world that I find incredibly sexy and I think about them. It doesn't change the way I feel about my husband. The only thing that causes me to withdraw from my husband (who I find very attractive) is his behavior. That said, I've had a major crush on a certain celebrity for 36 years and that's never going to change.


There is a big difference between an EA fantasy and a celebrity fantasy. The EA can cause emotional detachment from a spouse. 

When you get into the EA you are actually trying to invision a future with the person, as you would if you were engaged. Big difference.


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## Eagles_Fly

I think those lines blur. However, I do see that with an EA a future with the other person is farther into the realm of possibility so there's more emotional investment.


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## turnera

My H will occasionally joke about some beautiful woman we see here or there, that he's gonna go and get her to go to bed with him or something. I just laugh and say 'go ahead! If she'll take you and your 55 year old self, you go get her!'

Of course, we know it will never happen. 

It's when there's a possibility that it WILL happen that you have to be careful.


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## zappy88200

Kevin - How did your MC go?

Zappy


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## Faithful Wife

Eagle Eyes said: "What? Are you saying that if you're married you never fantasize or think about another person (other than your spouse) romantically? I didn't think that was possible."

I literally never fantasize about any one other than my husband. I spend most of the day fantasizing about him already, there is no room left in my mind or heart for anyone else.

However...I have had plenty of dating and sexual experience. I think if I had not had that experience, I would likely be "wondering" about other people.

I already know "what's out there", and I know what I've got at home. Why fantasize about eating hamburger when I can actually eat a steak at home?


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