# Cohabitation & Divorce questions



## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

[I wanna preface this by informing you that i'm running a fever and feel like complete hell... so please forgive any grammatical errors/typos and please forgive me if something doesn't make sense... I tried to be clear, I really did. If anything needs clarified, please don't hesitate to ask for clarification in the comments or in a PM]

Someone urged me in my introduction thread that I shouldn't wait to post my story because they waited and they realized they wasted like 3 months of their lives. I have actually been working on my post for the last several weeks since I joined but it's still a work in progress. My plate is overflowing... I am hardly ever free to just sit and type anything. I *will* get to posting it, I just need time to get everything out. It's agonizingly long but this forum is my last hope... I wanna be sure that I get everything laid out so I can get the best advice I can.

So for now, I just have these questions... 

*
Have any of you separated/divorced but had to remain living with each other because it wasn't financially feasible to move out on your own?


Did it work out well as a temporary solution? If not, may I ask why not?


I have kids involved... So for those that have kids that might have had to remain/currently remain living with their soon-to-be-ex, was it easier on your child(ren) to kinda use cohabitation as a step toward transitioning to living completely separately? 


What are the typical steps for divorcing? 


Say both parties are willing to be completely civil, are able to work out custody of children on their own, and there aren't any properties or other assets to split up... Ballpark, how long would a divorce take from filing to it being completed?
*

I live in Arizona and have not one clue on how it all works... I'd ask my mom, as she's been divorced twice, but my mother has pushed me to divorce him since the couple months of marriage and I just dont' want to hear more of the same thing.

Thanks in advance for all your answers and input. 

**** I haven't decided that I'll be divorcing my spouse (even though my intuition, marriage counselor, individual counselor, and sister have all highly suggested I should)... These are just things that i'm curious about.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Meloetta said:


> [I wanna preface this by informing you that i'm running a fever and feel like complete hell... so please forgive any grammatical errors/typos and please forgive me if something doesn't make sense... I tried to be clear, I really did. If anything needs clarified, please don't hesitate to ask for clarification in the comments or in a PM]
> 
> Someone urged me in my introduction thread that I shouldn't wait to post my story because they waited and they realized they wasted like 3 months of their lives. I have actually been working on my post for the last several weeks since I joined but it's still a work in progress. My plate is overflowing... I am hardly ever free to just sit and type anything. I *will* get to posting it, I just need time to get everything out. It's agonizingly long but this forum is my last hope... I wanna be sure that I get everything laid out so I can get the best advice I can.
> 
> ...


Some of this time framing will just be dependent upon Arizona as they are all different. I am in Colorado and here my divorce, start to finish was 4 months. We had no lawyers involved in process but I consulted several on how to proceed. it was not exactly amicable either because of her infidelity. 

Now even though I caught her cheating I allowed her to live in our house for 3 months while we processed the divorce. I can't be more clear on this, it was a HUGE mistake. I did it only because my x threatend to take my kids and live with this OM. So I voluntarily moved out of the bedroom and into the basement so she wouldn't take the kids. It was heartbreaking to be wallowed in depression in the basement while she was upstairs texting and calling the OM while they plotted their fantasy life together. 

If you can at all possible avoid this. By the end of three months I had to kick her out. It got so bad she was threatening my job and I was walking around with a VAR just in case she made up lies about me. It was horrible. I would do anything for my kids and I did but had I to do over I would have taken them and left...I was told not to because it would hurt my case for sole custody, turns out it didn't matter because I didn't get it anyway.


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> Some of this time framing will just be dependent upon Arizona as they are all different. I am in Colorado and here my divorce, start to finish was 4 months. We had no lawyers involved in process but I consulted several on how to proceed. it was not exactly amicable either because of her infidelity.
> 
> Now even though I caught her cheating I allowed her to live in our house for 3 months while we processed the divorce. I can't be more clear on this, it was a HUGE mistake. I did it only because my x threatend to take my kids and live with this OM. So I voluntarily moved out of the bedroom and into the basement so she wouldn't take the kids. It was heartbreaking to be wallowed in depression in the basement while she was upstairs texting and calling the OM while they plotted their fantasy life together.
> 
> If you can at all possible avoid this. By the end of three months I had to kick her out. It got so bad she was threatening my job and I was walking around with a VAR just in case she made up lies about me. It was horrible. I would do anything for my kids and I did but had I to do over I would have taken them and left...I was told not to because it would hurt my case for sole custody, turns out it didn't matter because I didn't get it anyway.


*Were you able to consult with lawyers for little to no cost?* I believe IF my husband and I were to divorce, we wouldn't need them involved in the process, but I would absolutely need consult as we have children and I would need spousal/child support. Although he is far from wanting divorce, he knows that if that becomes something that needs to happen, he won't be able to stop me. He's the type where he wouldn't fight for me or our kids. He's just kinda fold and go with the flow of things... I wanna say that's great since that means it should be quick, however, it's also quite saddening to know that he doesn't see it as worth the fight... That's all I've done is fight for our marriage since even BEFORE we got married (yes. yes... we had no business marrying at all. but that's a story for a different thread). All he's done is kinda just sit there and do nothing about it. No begging, pleading, crying, fighting, or talking has done any good for him. He just doesn't really care about anything or anyone except himself and his video game consoles.... *sigh* but I digress...

What you went through being kind enough to let her stay, sounds completely f*<king awful... 

I wouldn't necessarily have to deal with what you did, but a part of me worries that if we stay under the same roof during the process of divorce, I would want to cause him physical harm just watching him be so lackadaisical as our marriage crumbles right in front of him... Seeing the little to no emotion at the very though of losing his wife and kids would make me so irate... Just thinking about it does. I'm not a violent person... But I don't know that this would still be the case if we were to have to stay together during the divorce process. Not if he acted exactly as I assume he will. That probably sounds a little extreme, but I assure you, the level of anger I have is completely justified (took a lot of counseling to learn this). 

When I'm desperately pouring my heart out to him trying to express why i'm upset or what he's done that has hurt me... when I'm trying to tell him how I feel AND I tell him what I think he could have done differently (since he's claimed before that he doesn't know what else to do instead of the wrong thing he does)... When I'm trying to ask him why he treats his older son the way he treats him... When I just wanna know what the hell he wants for dinner... he just stares... into space... THE. ENTIRE. TIME.FOR EVERYTHING. And this is how it's ALWAYS been. This isn't new. He's not going through something weird. I have put up with this reaction (or lack of) from the beginning. And I think that once divorce is what's happening, I'll just be so done with him and how he is, and I don't know that I'll hold back anymore... But i'm also extremely emotional right now because i'm very sick and just feel like crud overall... SO who knows.

*sigh*... But I also wouldn't have an alternative option to cohabitation right now. I don't have family that could give me AND my kids shelter during the process and until I can find work or a way to survive with my kids... I'm going to school so that I can WORK. I've only just started this semester and have worked my ass off thus far and don't intend to stop. It would make no sense to stop going to school to work full time because the whole reason I began going to school is because I can't do just any job. I need schooling for what I CAN do. I still have just under two years left. I have to finish this. 

Sure I could go after him for child support and spousal support, but that would leave him with hardly anything. He most certainly couldn't afford to rent even a studio... SO knowing him, he'd give up and go back home to VA with his mom where he then wouldn't work at all... Thus leaving me high and dry with two kids to feed. 

So at this point in time, cohabitation would be my only option if we were to split. I was just hoping that maybe it COULD work... But between hearing your story, and just reading about it online, it very RARELY works out well. *sigh*


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Meloetta said:


> *
> Have any of you separated/divorced but had to remain living with each other because it wasn't financially feasible to move out on your own?
> 
> 
> ...


1) We lived in a quasi-separated state for 6 months until she initiated divorce. Then we lived together another 10 weeks until I could find a new place. It slowly went downhill during those 8 months but remained civil. It took some effort sometimes to keep my mouth shut, but mostly it was a slow transition from spouses to acquaintances. It can be done for a while anyway if both people are making an effort and if there is a definite end point known.

2) Yes it worked, but if I could go back I think I would have just moved out immediately into a 6 month rental. She wanted me out asap, while I was trying to find a new home to purchase rather than throw money away on a rental. As it turns out, the finances worked out to be the same either way. I would say if things are fairly equal either way, move out sooner rather than later. Yes it is a pain to move twice, and nobody wants to spend extra money, but it may be a fairly small difference in the end.

3) Our kids are all adults, with grandkids living a few doors down. I think it was good to give the younger ones advance notice so they could get used to the idea. I also think it was good for them to see us working together politely rather than seeing some big explosion and emotional suddenly moving out. So I would say for your kids as long as things stay fairly calm without tension in the house, it is better to make it a slower transition, but don't drag it out too much or it could become a problem that it is a lingering threat but no resolution actually happening.

4) One of you files. It is officially a lawsuit, not a criminal case. So if you file you are the petitioner. You fill out basic bio information and list what is known about your finances and assets (cars, house, bank accounts, etc). You give a reason for the divorce (irreconcilable differences, substance abuse, etc). You specify how you want the assets divided. Then the other person is the Respondent. If they contest anything, they file a Response. If they agree with everything, they file a specific form stating they agree to it and ask the court to sign of on it as-is. Your court will have specific procedures for serving the papers to the other. So if you file, your husband has to be officially served with the papers. If he is cooperative, you can hand him the papers and he signs a form. If he isn't cooperative, you hire a Process Server to track him down and hand him the papers. Your court will require a few specific documents such as a parenting plan and financial disclosures. If everything is agreeable it will go smoothly. You probably have to attend a parenting class. You may have to attend a mediation session. All of this is easy to find on the internet. Start with your state website, probably the courts website.

5) For us the process took about 3 weeks to get the initial paperwork sorted out and all filed. My state has forms online which can be filled out and filed. The courthouse has a computer room with printers (they charge a lot for printing out, like 25 cents per page I think) with a paralegal who can answer some basic questions. The clerks can also answer questions about the mechanics of the process. Neither of them can give an legal advice, though. So you fill out the forms and take it to the court clerk for filing, and pay the fee ($300+ here to file). Then the other person signs forms and files them. If you're really organized you can do all this in one visit together. We weren't so coordinated so it took a bit longer. Anyhow, then it is a matter of the minimum time by law in your state before the judge can sign off. Because you have kids you will have to do the parenting classes and file whatever forms are required as far as child support, financial disclosures, custody plan, etc. If you're organized you should be able to do this within the state's mandated minimum waiting period.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

AZ has a really well done DIY section for divorces. It can answer the technical parts of your divorce question. 

https://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/SuperiorCourt/Self-ServiceCenter/Forms/alphaList.asp


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There are books that will walk you through the divorce process in Arizona:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=arizona+divorce

Unless you have huge amounts of complicated assets to divide, you can probably do the divorce yourself.

When it comes to the children and child support, just follow the state guidelines. I'm sure that the books talk about those. 

At least start there and see if the two of you can work things out.

If you need some help negotiating with him, a mediator is much less expensive than a lawyer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, do a google search on divorce topics and read up.. a lot of attorneys put a lot of info on the web.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Meloetta said:


> *
> I wouldn't necessarily have to deal with what you did, but a part of me worries that if we stay under the same roof during the process of divorce, I would want to cause him physical harm just watching him be so lackadaisical as our marriage crumbles right in front of him... Seeing the little to no emotion at the very though of losing his wife and kids would make me so irate... Just thinking about it does. I'm not a violent person... But I don't know that this would still be the case if we were to have to stay together during the divorce process. Not if he acted exactly as I assume he will. That probably sounds a little extreme, but I assure you, the level of anger I have is completely justified (took a lot of counseling to learn this).*


*

People's true inner self comes out during divorce. Expect whatever he does to irritate you will amplify during divorce. Not intentionally, but due to the stress of the situation. My wife was nearly literally pushing me out the door. On move-out day I got up and took a shower first thing. I get out of the shower and she had already taken the bed apart to move into a different room. Lots of examples prior to that, like coming from work and not saying a word to me for 15 minutes, then asking something about whether the mortgage had been approved or the seller had accepted my offer, etc.

Anyhow, expect your husband to revert back to his real self. If he's not normally a selfless person, he will become even more self centered. Etc. And to be fair, you'll do the same thing. You'll be under stress even if it is an amicable divorce. If you're prone to harsh words, you'll be more harsh. Whatever it is, you'll be more so. Maybe you'll be more caring and more helpful if that is the real you. Whatever it is, it may not be helpful to you. If you're giving, you may give away too much.

Because you have a child you expect to become responsible for (not meaning have custody but be the responsible adult watching out for the child), you should consult with an atty. You can hire them just for advice, paying by the hour. They can prepare paperwork for you, or they can review the state website paperwork for you. Or they can get involved in actively advocating for you, doing all the communications with your husband's atty. My atty charges $1500 for an uncontested divorce where he provides advice and prepares all the paperwork. For a contested divorce he requires something like $4000 up front as a retainer. Or, I could just hire him by the hour as needed to answer questions and review paperwork.

So, you should probably expect to spend something like $1k at a minimum for legal advice. You may get lucky and get away less than that if your husband is totally cooperative. But I think you should definitely get advice. At the very least go consult with several attys for their free initial consult. Most will give you 15 to 30 minutes free where they answer your basic questions. They can tell you how things usually go with your situation where you live. Nothing is guaranteed but they should be able to inform you on what is typical. You could then proceed without attorneys if your husband agrees to what the attorneys say is typical.

Be aware that if you file, you typically cannot come back and ask for more later in the process. Let's say you do not ask for alimony in your original filing, but then a month later you decide you want it. You can't then ask for it because it wasn't in your original filing. This kind of info is why you need to at least consult with an attorney even if it costs you a little bit of $$.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Meloetta said:


> 1. Have any of you separated/divorced but had to remain living with each other because it wasn't financially feasible to move out on your own?


A lot of divorcing couples do this for a few reasons:
1)	They don’t have the money to live separately until they re-arrange their lives.
2)	Neither is ready to live only part time with their children.
3)	There is often an argument about who will stay in the family home. Neither spouse can legally kick the other out. It takes a court order to do that. That order usually does not come about until the divorce is final.



Meloetta said:


> 2. Did it work out well as a temporary solution? If not, may I ask why not?


IF you two can be amiable, it can work out.

You mentioned your fear of wanting to kill him (figuratively speaking). Look at the link to the 180 in my signature block below. Start interacting with him according to that. You need to learn to separate you emotions from all of this. Even if you end up being able to fix your marriage, you need to get a handle on your emotions.



Meloetta said:


> 3. I have kids involved... So for those that have kids that might have had to remain/currently remain living with their soon-to-be-ex, was it easier on your child(ren) to kinda use cohabitation as a step toward transitioning to living completely separately?


Yes it tends to be easier on the kids. Divorce is hard on kids. They don’t care that your relationship with your husband sucks. They just want their family to not change.


Meloetta said:


> 4. What are the typical steps for divorcing?


I gave info on where to find this out.


Meloetta said:


> 5. Say both parties are willing to be completely civil, are able to work out custody of children on their own, and there aren't any properties or other assets to split up... Ballpark, how long would a divorce take from filing to it being completed?


Q: How long does a typical Arizona divorce take? 

A: In Arizona family law, an uncontested divorce, one in which the parties agree on all aspects of the divorce, usually takes about 90 to 120 days. Arizona has a 60-day waiting period following the filing and service of the initial dissolution documents. After the 60 days, the court, either pursuant to a hearing or upon submission, must sign the final dissolution documents. This is the reason for the additional time. If the dissolution is contested, it usually takes substantially longer, typically between six and eighteen months; however, some divorces take years.

Arizona Divorce and Family Law Q & A - Arizona Divorce Source


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Meloetta,

Do you have a job? If so what % of your joint income do you earn.

I'm assuming that your husband has a job.


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

Thor said:


> 1) We lived in a quasi-separated state for 6 months until she initiated divorce. Then we lived together another 10 weeks until I could find a new place. It slowly went downhill during those 8 months but remained civil. It took some effort sometimes to keep my mouth shut, but mostly it was a slow transition from spouses to acquaintances. It can be done for a while anyway if both people are making an effort and if there is a definite end point known.
> 
> 2) Yes it worked, but if I could go back I think I would have just moved out immediately into a 6 month rental. She wanted me out asap, while I was trying to find a new home to purchase rather than throw money away on a rental. As it turns out, the finances worked out to be the same either way. I would say if things are fairly equal either way, move out sooner rather than later. Yes it is a pain to move twice, and nobody wants to spend extra money, but it may be a fairly small difference in the end.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your input. Do you think it was better to have separated first before jumping into divorce? 

I suppose that answer would depend on the situation, but I'm considering at the very least separation. It seems less "final" to me... But I do wonder what the difference is other than legally you're two different people at that point. I'll have to do some googling. 

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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> AZ has a really well done DIY section for divorces. It can answer the technical parts of your divorce question.
> 
> https://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/SuperiorCourt/Self-ServiceCenter/Forms/alphaList.asp


This is the wrong county for me. I'm in Pima County. But I'm sure it's mostly the same. When I get to my computer again I'll try googling to see if there's similar information for my county. Thank you! 

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Meloetta said:


> Thank you so much for your input. Do you think it was better to have separated first before jumping into divorce?
> 
> I suppose that answer would depend on the situation, but I'm considering at the very least separation. It seems less "final" to me... But I do wonder what the difference is other than legally you're two different people at that point. I'll have to do some googling.


Are you talking about just separating or legal separation. There's a difference.

Legal Separation Arizona FAQ

What would be the purpose of a separation? What would it really do for you?


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

Thor said:


> People's true inner self comes out during divorce. Expect whatever he does to irritate you will amplify during divorce. Not intentionally, but due to the stress of the situation. My wife was nearly literally pushing me out the door. On move-out day I got up and took a shower first thing. I get out of the shower and she had already taken the bed apart to move into a different room. Lots of examples prior to that, like coming from work and not saying a word to me for 15 minutes, then asking something about whether the mortgage had been approved or the seller had accepted my offer, etc.
> 
> Anyhow, expect your husband to revert back to his real self. If he's not normally a selfless person, he will become even more self centered. Etc. And to be fair, you'll do the same thing. You'll be under stress even if it is an amicable divorce. If you're prone to harsh words, you'll be more harsh. Whatever it is, you'll be more so. Maybe you'll be more caring and more helpful if that is the real you. Whatever it is, it may not be helpful to you. If you're giving, you may give away too much.
> 
> ...


Oh wow... I never knew that about making sure what's in my original filing, is everything... You're right. I don't have any money for that now, but that should probably one of my top priorities... Thank you for that tip! As for him reverting back... Honestly it he reverted back to how he used to be, we wouldn't be divorcing. He is normally selfish, inconsiderate, and disrespectful... If he were to be the opposite, that would save our marriage for sure lol. 

The last time he was a decent human being toward me was before I moved to Richmond VA in March of 2010. He was living, kind, selfless, and sweet for 3 whole years of our friendship prior to 2010. 

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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Meloetta,
> 
> Do you have a job? If so what % of your joint income do you earn.
> 
> I'm assuming that your husband has a job.


Thank you so much for the previous information... I've done some googling but not nearly enough. 

And I do not work. I go to college full time and take care of our kids full time. He's the one that works. 

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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Are you talking about just separating or legal separation. There's a difference.
> 
> Legal Separation Arizona FAQ
> 
> What would be the purpose of a separation? What would it really do for you?


Legal separation. Thank you for the links! When I can get back to my computer, I'll be checking them out! 

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Meloetta said:


> Thank you so much for the previous information... I've done some googling but not nearly enough.
> 
> And I do not work. I go to college full time and take care of our kids full time. He's the one that works.


How close are you to graduating and being able to work. The court will most likely expect you to become self supporting as soon as possible.


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> How close are you to graduating and being able to work. The court will most likely expect you to become self supporting as soon as possible.


Nowhere near completion, sadly. I would have been down almost an entire semester but ITT tech closed down and I had to restart at my local community collect. I don't be done till 2018/2019

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old are you and your husband?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Be careful with separation. If you do the official legal separation it becomes a template for your divorce. Not that it is cast in stone, but typically whatever you agreed to in the separation is seen as what should be done in the divorce. So if you agree to share physical custody 50/50, in divorce it is likely you would not get sole physical custody. Or if you agree to pay half the joint bills, it may set up where you don't get any alimony (which you may not be legally entitled to anyway). If you agree he gets to take all the money in the bank accounts, you won't get any of it back in the divorce.

In a short marriage without much assets, you're not going to get a lot in the divorce anyway. The biggest concerns would probably be to set up custody and child support right the first time.

The good part of legal separation is you are financially unhooked from him, so you are no longer responsible for any debts he acquires after the date of separation. But you don't get any of his gains, either, so if he wins the lottery you won't get any of it.

I don't see a good reason to do a separation rather than just go to divorce. There may be circumstances it makes sense, but if you're on the path to divorce you might as well just do it in my opinion. You should google whether there is an advantage or reason to separate before divorce in Arizona. This is another question to ask a lawyer in one of those free consultations.

I think you need to talk to a lawyer about the custody and child support. Your child has many years left before being 18, so you want to get this right. If your husband gets a good lawyer he may sneak something into the agreement which has future implications you don't realize.


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> How old are you and your husband?


Sorry it took so long to reply. It's been pretty bad here at home with my husband. 

Anyway. we're both 25 (26 in January). Married for 6 years. 2 children (1 year old and 5 years old). Gave you more information than you asked for but idk if it might help with whatever advice you might have. 

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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

Thor said:


> Be careful with separation. If you do the official legal separation it becomes a template for your divorce. Not that it is cast in stone, but typically whatever you agreed to in the separation is seen as what should be done in the divorce. So if you agree to share physical custody 50/50, in divorce it is likely you would not get sole physical custody. Or if you agree to pay half the joint bills, it may set up where you don't get any alimony (which you may not be legally entitled to anyway). If you agree he gets to take all the money in the bank accounts, you won't get any of it back in the divorce.
> 
> In a short marriage without much assets, you're not going to get a lot in the divorce anyway. The biggest concerns would probably be to set up custody and child support right the first time.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice. I had no idea that what happens in a separation could remain for a divorce. I will absolutely consult a lawyer if it gets that far (divorce). 

It definitely sounds like separation isn't really worth it... And in my situation every day that passes makes me feel like a separation would just be a huge waste of time. 


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Unless you have huge amounts of complicated assets to divide, you can probably do the divorce yourself.


You can. As long as you both agree to everything then it's really fairly simple. I didn't end up using a lawyer.

If you can do a basic tax return by yourself, you can fill out some paperwork and complete the divorce process without blood sucking lawyers.


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## Meloetta (Aug 26, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> You can. As long as you both agree to everything then it's really fairly simple. I didn't end up using a lawyer.
> 
> If you can do a basic tax return by yourself, you can fill out some paperwork and complete the divorce process without blood sucking lawyers.


That's definitely good to know. I do agree though that I should at least get in touch with a lawyer just for advice though. I want to be protected in the event my passive husband suddenly does a 180 and tries to fight me with custody. 

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