# Family Dilema from Tragic Loss of Daughter



## Akjohn

My daughter, beautiful, intelligent, caring 18 years old, tragically passed away last week. We are still mourning and grieving the unimaginable loss.

Apart from the great loss, her death shattered the otherwise fragile foundations of my present marriage. 

I have been divorced from my Ex-wife of 18 year, for 12 years now. I have been married to my present wife for these 12 years. 

From previous marriage I have a son of 24 and a daughter who passed away last week, of 18.

With my present wife I have a boy of 10 and a girl of 8.

The 2 families live about 200 miles apart in different cities.

My Ex-wife did not remarry, instead, chosed to dedicate her life and time raising our 2 children who were 10 and 5 (son, daughter respectively, when I left the family).

Tragically, my first daughter passed away, leaving only her mother and her elder brother all alone. They are a close-knit immigrant family with few friends. 

When I recieved the sad news, I immediately drove the 200 miles to my Ex-wife and first son to mourn and grief. As the father of the deceased, my actions and reactions to be present, grief, co-comfort and co-console with my ex and our first son, in their house, was natural, instantaneous and logical. Am I wrong, please?

This is because my present wife is very much against my going to my previous wife's house to grief and console with my previous family. I travelled down and after 1.5 days, my wife demanded I return back home. On my return home, after 2 days of mourning separately (myself at my home with present wife and 2 kids on one hand, and my Ex and our remaining son in another home 200 miles away on another hand), I couldnt bear the additional pain of leaving my Ex and our son all lone to grief all by themselves with little or no friends/relatives, and travelled back again to spend additional 3 days with them.

Obviously my present wife is not having any of this, and I can feel/see my present marriage being on the line as I still cant help but wanting to go back to provide any support I could to the grieving Ex and son, afterall we are the 3 on the same boat of mourning, we were a family and we lost one of us; who would understand better and feel the pain we are going through? 

My present wife has now practically placed our marriage and family on notice, hence I'm self-locked up in my home while my Ex and son grieve alone. Am I wrong please? Am I doing the right thing? My heart and mind is with them in this difficult times, I wish to be there physically to support them in this grieving times, but my current marriage and family is at stake if I do so. What should I do please?

Right now, as the father of the deceased and with no one to help, I have been working on the funeral arrangements all by telephone, online, via emails etc. But I know/feel the right thing to do is go back to the Ex and son, together make these arrangements...which flowers to choose, which cemetry, which funeral package, costs etc etc. But I dare not go, else my present wife gives me the boot. What should I do???????? Kindly please help!!! Please advise!!! Thank you.


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## blahfridge

I am so sorry for your loss, @Akjohn. I can’t imagine the pain of losing a child. 

As to your wife, she is being incredibly selfish and uncaring. Forget about your ex wife, your son needs his father right now after losing his only sibling. Even if there is a reason for bad blood between your wife and ex, having children of her own should at least give your current wife some understanding of how devastating the loss of a child would be.

Having said that, I think you should begin to distance yourself from the ex soon. But your son will need you more than ever for a while. You and your wife need to sit down and have an adult conversation about what that looks like. 
Again, my deepest condolences for your loss.


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## Trident

Well, if your wife is going to divorce you over this then it's not a matter of right or wrong. 

You're going to have to make the hard choice. Grieve with your first family and lose the second one, or keep your distance from family #1 and save your marriage. But your wife is being unreasonable, there are much bigger issues. here that probably need to be addressed regardless of what you do.


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## happyhusband0005

I'm very sorry about your daughter. Losing a child has to be the most extreme loss there is. It seems very odd to me your current wife wouldn't just set her feelings and insecurities aside as you deal with all of this. I really don't get why she wouldn't accompany you to support you in any way I think that would be the appropriate thing for her to do.


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## lifeistooshort

Are there issues with poor boundaries with your ex in the past?

I feel like that's relevant here. It seems odd that you'd get such a response if there were no prior issues. You said your ex didn't remarry so how involved with her have you been?

I'm so sorry for your loss...it's horrendous.


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## Akjohn

Thank you so much to all for your responses. More than appreciated, thank you.

@lifeistooshort, you are right: there were loose boundaries in the past, within the first 2-4 years of marriage #2 mainly stemming from the need to regularly visit the children in marriage #1. However, wife #2 has been strongly opposed to such extent that, for the preservation of my family and marriage #2, I had to cut down ties with family #1. As example, within the last 5 years prior to my daughter's death, I only saw/visited family #1 only 3 times. Any attempt to be more physically involved in family #1 by regular visit to see the children were always met with feuds and threats of breakup by wife in family #2.

This situation is hitting and eating me hard since deep within my heart I feel and know I should have been more involved in the life of children in family #1, but not given the chance to do so by wife #2.

Should I take the bull by the horn and go fully grief with family #1, knowing fully well that the consequence would be loss of family #2, with subsequent physiological trauma stemming from the guilt of leaving 2 young children in family #2? I wount forgive myself if, while back with family #1 -- if I take that decision--, I learnt of something gone wrong with my children at family #2 due to absence of their father (same devastation I'm feeling now with a loss of life in family #1, with self blaming that I may have been able to, maybe, to some remote degree, avert the tragedy if I had been more present in family #1 children's lives, if that father figure has been present more often... maybe I may have spotted or seen some early signs...). What should I do??? I feel totally lost really!!! I'm grieving the loss of my first daughter, almost still in denial, and now these delicate dilemma. I know I may have messed up somewhere along the line, but no body expected the sudden death of my daughter, with consequential shattering of the thin wall separating families #1 and #2. Kindly please advise.


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## DownByTheRiver

I think if your wife has a big problem with it, she needs to take off work or whatever and go with you. Just banning you from going doesn't make much sense to me. But she should be accompanying you since she has worries about your boundaries. She can't just stay home and then gripe about it. 

So terribly sorry for your loss.


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## lifeistooshort

Why have you been going to visit family number 1 without your wife? Why are you not picking up your kids and forming a family with wife #2? Why has your current wife not been part of your kid visits?

Being divorced means that family doesn't exist anymore. You have no business being remarried if you're going to be hanging out with your ex and kids without your wife. If you want to hang out with your ex like you're still a family then get divorced and get back with your ex. Its not your job to be comforting your ex while married to someone else.


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## Diana7

Firstly I am so sorry for your deep shock in the loss of your daughter.
I am trying to think what we would do one of my husband's sons died. Its different a bit in that they have both left home, plus we are just less than an hour away from his ex, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't stay the night.
Yes maybe they would both organise the funeral etc together but staying several days at her home? I highly doubt it. She is no longer his wife. 

If you must go, could you agree to stay in a hotel nearby rather that in her house? Could your wife and children go down as well? A lot of the arrangements for the funeral can be done by phone or face time or email these days as well.

I wonder, you say you were divorced 20 years ago and remarried 20 years ago so did you leave wife no 1 for wife no 2? If so do you think you may be feeling a lot if guilt now for that? For not living closer?

Does your ex wife have no friends? No family who could come and stay and be a support? Parents? Siblings? Cousins?
It seems odd after all these years that she knows no one.


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## Tested_by_stress

I wouldn't shut my kids out for any woman. I know the choice I would make when presented with such an ultimatum. My sincere condolences on your loss sir.


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## Diana7

Tested_by_stress said:


> I wouldn't shut my kids out for any woman. I know the choice I would make when presented with such an ultimatum. My sincere condolences on your loss sir.


Two of his children are from his second marriage so he has responsibility for them as well.


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## Akjohn

#DownByTheRiver: I appreciate very much your thoughts. That could have been a great solution, maybe, but the family #2 children (8 and 10 yrs old) are in school. Also wife #2 is on 3 months probation in new job. Searched for live-in nanny/aurpair, none.

@lifeistooshort: I highly appreciate very much your words of wisdom. Thank you.

---Why have you been going to visit family number 1 without your wife?---
The two are staunch enemies...they wount see face to face. Wife #1 accuses wife #2 of snatching her husband. Wife #2 accuses wife #1 of trying to destroy her marriage and home.

---Why are you not picking up your kids and forming a family with wife #2?---
Due to above reason, and also Wife #1 categorically rejected any such ideas, moves, plans etc, even though I tried it once, brought all 4 children together to know each other, didnt end well from wife #1.

---Why has your current wife not been part of your kid visits?--- 
Frankly, she has been, during some few times I have visited family #1. But her part has been like this: we family #2 travels 200 miles to family #1 city, we lodge in a hotel, and I alone walk the last mile to see children/family #1. Wife #1 would never allow wife #2 come near her home. And if I h'd taken children #1 out during my visit to family #1 and had taken them to see children #2 lodged in hotel with wife #2, that would've been a big problem with wife #1. But frankly, wife #2's accompaniment in such few cases has been more of a control/check, from my personal perspective.

---Being divorced means that family doesn't exist anymore.---
Thank you very much for the reminder about this harsh reality. I failed to accept it when I divorced 12 years ago. I kept and till today keep saying that I may have divorced wife #1, I never meant to 'divorced' children #1. I never meant to leave my children for another woman. And that was why before marriage to wife #2, I declared my 'assets', my 'cargos', that I have 2 kids, and she was on board all along, promising to be there and blend well. However, the blending didnt go well as the 2 mums became enemies.

---You have no business being remarried if you're going to be hanging out with your ex and kids without your wife.---
Well understood. Again, it wasnt the plan, it wasnt meant to be that wife #2 would not be involved in the visitations and 'hanging outs'. Its due to the feuds/enmity between the 2. As a strong example, son from family #1 came for a 3 months summer internship in city where we family #2 reside. Wife #2 would not have him to stay with us. Had to lodge him in AirBnB. He was just 18 then, in same city, yet could not give him a place under my roof due to wife #2's utter rejection. Just an example of a real case.

---If you want to hang out with your ex like you're still a family then get divorced and get back with your ex.---
Thank you. Harsh, but thank you. But please note that the intention was/is NOT to hang out like family. Its the tragedy of the loss of our common daughter that I see, necessitated this 'grieving hang out'... we (myself, son #1, wife #1) were and are still weeping and crying, comforting each other, holding each other's hands, praying together for daughter #1's soul... with whom else should I grief? With wife #2 that, well, doesnt really feel the pain we are feeling of losing a very beautiful young intelligent promising child? The 'hang out' is not per say a hang out but a moment of grief, to help each other, especially son #1, navigate successfully, pass through this dark moment in the lives of the 3 of us left from family #1.

---Its not your job to be comforting your ex while married to someone else.---
Even if the comforting relates to our joint daughter? I understand of the comforting relates to the loss of her mother or brother or a member of her extended family. But this loss is our joint daughter. You mean I really dont have any business comforting her? Ok, fine. What about my other son #1 with her? I also do not need to be physically present by his side to comfort him because I m married to wife #2? I guess the answers to these last 2 questions are where the keys to my dilemma reside. If I can get some opinion, answers to these, I feel it could help really.

Thank you very much.


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## Diana7

Did you leave your family for wife no 2? You claim to have married the same year you divorced.
Has your ex honestly got no family members who came come and stay? No friends at all?

How long are you wanting to stay with your ex? It seems very unwise being that she hates your wife and wants to break you up. 

You can grieve just as much at home with your wife.


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## Akjohn

Diana7 said:


> Firstly I am so sorry for your deep shock in the loss of your daughter.
> I am trying to think what we would do one of my husband's sons died. Its different a bit in that they have both left home, plus we are just less than an hour away from his ex, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't stay the night.
> Yes maybe they would both organise the funeral etc together but staying several days at her home? I highly doubt it. She is no longer his wife.
> 
> If you must go, could you agree to stay in a hotel nearby rather that in her house? Could your wife and children go down as well? A lot of the arrangements for the funeral can be done by phone or face time or email these days as well.
> 
> I wonder, you say you were divorced 20 years ago and remarried 20 years ago so did you leave wife no 1 for wife no 2? If so do you think you may be feeling a lot if guilt now for that? For not living closer?
> 
> Does your ex wife have no friends? No family who could come and stay and be a support? Parents? Siblings? Cousins?
> It seems odd after all these years that she knows no one.


Thank you very much, Diana7.

"...but I am pretty sure he wouldn't stay the night." --- Ok...thank you very much. That's helpful really. I did stay the night, and wife #2 was extremely mad I did. So I was wrong here?

"...Yes maybe they would both organise the funeral etc together..."--- thats true... we are doing just that now and we had/have to interact.

"...but staying several days at her home? I highly doubt it. She is no longer his wife...."--- Ok, very helpful. I did stayed 5 days: first night of the sad news in her home with her and my first son grieving uncontrollably, and other 4 nights strictly in hotel. Informed wife #2 which hotel, which room, location etc. Please note that my son is also in her house. So even if I m not allowed to stay at her house, cant I stay since my son is there?

"If you must go, could you agree to stay in a hotel nearby rather that in her house?"--- Yes, I have been doing just that.

"Could your wife and children go down as well?"---No, as children are in school and wife goes to work, just started new job.

"A lot of the arrangements for the funeral can be done by phone or face time or email these days as well."---This is exactly wife #2's same opinion which I consider insensitive as a number of items need to be done phsycally, for example visit to the given choices of cemetries, physical viewing of samples of items such as memorial/condolence book, visit to church/pastor/priest for the funeral etc etc. But reading your comments now, I understand I may be have been wrong and should have agreed to do these arrangements remotely?

"I wonder, you say you were divorced 20 years ago and remarried 20 years ago so did you leave wife no 1 for wife no 2?" --- 12 years ago, not 20. But yes, wife #2 for wife #1. With the outcome of events now, I m certainly neither happy nor proud of this.

"If so do you think you may be feeling a lot if guilt now for that? For not living closer?" --- 1000000% affirmative!!! The guilt's been there from year 1, but I felt helpless with the arrival of children #2. The guilt's even so much now compounded by daughter #1's death!! You think this feeling of extreme guilt have anything to do with my current dilemma?

"Does your ex wife have no friends? No family who could come and stay and be a support? Parents? Siblings? Cousins?" --- We emigrated a while back, leaving behind family, parents and core friends. No support at all, few friends and none to stay. I have been trying to organise for them pastoral, psychological and bereavement support for them but its been slow coming. Wife #1 has very little command of English even after 14 years in English speaking country, compounding to the communication problems. No cousins, no siblings except in far away home country.

"It seems odd after all these years that she knows no one." She kept close-knit in part due to above. But yes, children #1 are well know for great academic feats and behaviours. 

What should I do? How should I handle these difficult situations...please???


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## Kaliber

@Akjohn so sorry for you lose..
You can't even grieve because of your current wife!



Akjohn said:


> #DownByTheRiver: I appreciate very much your thoughts. That could have been a great solution, maybe, but the family #2 children (8 and 10 yrs old) are in school. Also wife #2 is on 3 months probation in new job. Searched for live-in nanny/aurpair, none.
> 
> @lifeistooshort: I highly appreciate very much your words of wisdom. Thank you.
> 
> ---Why have you been going to visit family number 1 without your wife?---
> The two are staunch enemies...they wount see face to face. Wife #1 accuses wife #2 of snatching her husband. Wife #2 accuses wife #1 of trying to destroy her marriage and home.
> 
> ---Why are you not picking up your kids and forming a family with wife #2?---
> Due to above reason, and also Wife #1 categorically rejected any such ideas, moves, plans etc, even though I tried it once, brought all 4 children together to know each other, didnt end well from wife #1.
> 
> ---Why has your current wife not been part of your kid visits?---
> Frankly, she has been, during some few times I have visited family #1. But her part has been like this: we family #2 travels 200 miles to family #1 city, we lodge in a hotel, and I alone walk the last mile to see children/family #1. Wife #1 would never allow wife #2 come near her home. And if I h'd taken children #1 out during my visit to family #1 and had taken them to see children #2 lodged in hotel with wife #2, that would've been a big problem with wife #1. But frankly, wife #2's accompaniment in such few cases has been more of a control/check, from my personal perspective.
> 
> ---Being divorced means that family doesn't exist anymore.---
> Thank you very much for the reminder about this harsh reality. I failed to accept it when I divorced 12 years ago. I kept and till today keep saying that I may have divorced wife #1, I never meant to 'divorced' children #1. I never meant to leave my children for another woman. And that was why before marriage to wife #2, I declared my 'assets', my 'cargos', that I have 2 kids, and she was on board all along, promising to be there and blend well. However, the blending didnt go well as the 2 mums became enemies.
> 
> ---You have no business being remarried if you're going to be hanging out with your ex and kids without your wife.---
> Well understood. Again, it wasnt the plan, it wasnt meant to be that wife #2 would not be involved in the visitations and 'hanging outs'. Its due to the feuds/enmity between the 2. As a strong example, son from family #1 came for a 3 months summer internship in city where we family #2 reside. Wife #2 would not have him to stay with us. Had to lodge him in AirBnB. He was just 18 then, in same city, yet could not give him a place under my roof due to wife #2's utter rejection. Just an example of a real case.
> 
> ---If you want to hang out with your ex like you're still a family then get divorced and get back with your ex.---
> Thank you. Harsh, but thank you. But please note that the intention was/is NOT to hang out like family. Its the tragedy of the loss of our common daughter that I see, necessitated this 'grieving hang out'... we (myself, son #1, wife #1) were and are still weeping and crying, comforting each other, holding each other's hands, praying together for daughter #1's soul... with whom else should I grief? With wife #2 that, well, doesnt really feel the pain we are feeling of losing a very beautiful young intelligent promising child? The 'hang out' is not per say a hang out but a moment of grief, to help each other, especially son #1, navigate successfully, pass through this dark moment in the lives of the 3 of us left from family #1.
> 
> ---Its not your job to be comforting your ex while married to someone else.---
> Even if the comforting relates to our joint daughter? I understand of the comforting relates to the loss of her mother or brother or a member of her extended family. But this loss is our joint daughter. You mean I really dont have any business comforting her? Ok, fine. What about my other son #1 with her? I also do not need to be physically present by his side to comfort him because I m married to wife #2? I guess the answers to these last 2 questions are where the keys to my dilemma reside. If I can get some opinion, answers to these, I feel it could help really.
> 
> Thank you very much.


From an outsider I want to tell you that you kind of missed up from the beginning, this stood out for me:


Akjohn said:


> Wife #2 would not have him to stay with us. Had to lodge him in AirBnB. He was just 18 then, in same city, yet could not give him a place under my roof due to wife #2's utter rejection. Just an example of a real case.


You were being controlled in very petty way, and you allowed it!
You can't even have your own son in your own home and you let him lodge in an AirBnB
You basically were bending backwards in every direction you turned, that's why your wife doesn't have much respect for you and doesn't care about your feelings and your tragic lose!
The more you showed your wife weakness and no boundaries the more she treated you like a child, you gave your current wife all the power to boss you around (very unattractive for men)

But I will give you this relationship golden rule:
*The spouse that cares less in a relationship holds all the power!*


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## Akjohn

Diana7 said:


> Did you leave your family for wife no 2? You claim to have married the same year you divorced.
> Has your ex honestly got no family members who came come and stay? No friends at all?
> 
> How long are you wanting to stay with your ex? It seems very unwise being that she hates your wife and wants to break you up.
> 
> You can grieve just as much at home with your wife.


Thank you very much for these, really. Thank you!!

"Did you leave your family for wife no 2? You claim to have married the same year you divorced." --- Thats correct.

"Has your ex honestly got no family members who came come and stay? No friends at all?" --- No families at all. Some few friends only. In tye begining, no one, but as words began to spread, some came. Only 1 stayed overnight for 1 night as they all have their jobs to go to I guess.

"How long are you wanting to stay with your ex?" --- Not as such "wanting to stay with ex". Its more of wanting to be there in this difficult times, to support at least my son. Hoping to do so till after funeral but I guess thats too long? 

It seems very unwise being that she hates your wife and wants to break you up.

"You can grieve just as much at home with your wife." --- Many thanks for this. Very valuable comment really. Will take this on board. However, wife #1's following comment's driving me mad on top of the on-going mourning: "You left when daughter was only 5, in last 5 year of her life you only saw her 3 times, and now she's gone, you're leaving us again in this difficult times to grieve alone. I will never forgive you!"

I feel like I'm being tossed between wife #1 and #2, both saying things that hit hard at the mind and soul, both extremely delicate at this moment.


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## bobert

It's a tricky situation to be in, and I'm sorry for your loss. 

It's understandable that you want to be with your oldest son, but your ex-wife isn't your wife or family anymore. It's a slippery slope to be at her house, consoling her, etc. That could VERY easily lead to an affair when emotions are so high. And I could be wrong, but it sounds like you've already had one affair. So combine that with your poor boundaries and NO wife would want you there, let alone one who hates your ex and was your affair partner. 



Akjohn said:


> "Did you leave your family for wife no 2? You claim to have married the same year you divorced." --- Thats correct.


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## Akjohn

Kaliber said:


> @Akjohn so sorry for you lose..
> You can't even grieve because of your current wife!
> 
> 
> 
> From an outsider I want to tell you that you kind of missed up from the beginning, this stood out for me:
> 
> 
> You were being controlled in very petty way, and you allowed it!
> You can't even have your own son in your own home and you let him lodge in an AirBnB
> You basically were bending backwards in every direction you turned, that's why your wife doesn't have much respect for you and doesn't care about your feelings and your tragic lose!
> The more you showed your wife weakness and no boundaries the more she treated you like a child, you gave your current wife all the power to boss you around (very unattractive for men)
> 
> But I will give you this relationship golden rule:
> *The spouse that cares less in a relationship holds all the power!*


I really dont understand how I got to this point. With wife #1 and marriage #1, I was the king, the absolute emperor, feared, revered, respected and overly-loved. In marriage #2 and wife #2, its the complete oposite: she is the Major-General, while I feel like a petty Corporal. 

So you are absolutely spot-on, @Kaliber.


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## Akjohn

bobert said:


> It's a tricky situation to be in, and I'm sorry for your loss.
> 
> It's understandable that you want to be with your oldest son, but your ex-wife isn't your wife or family anymore. It's a slippery slope to be at her house, consoling her, etc. That could VERY easily lead to an affair when emotions are so high. And I could be wrong, but it sounds like you've already had one affair. So combine that with your poor boundaries and NO wife would want you there, let alone one who hates your ex and was your affair partner.


Thank you very much, @bobert, highly appreciated. I am ruminating on every line of your comments. They're helping me to see from another perspective, how the whole issue is being percieved from outside, from another angle rather than from my insider singular angle of vision.


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## Tested_by_stress

Diana7 said:


> Two of his children are from his second marriage so he has responsibility for them as well


I'm not following you. Why would he need to sacrifice his relationship for the first two? The OP did state that he only saw his first two 3 times in the last 5 years despite only living 200 miles apart. He said this was to keep the peace with wife # 2. What kind of woman would force a man to choose between her and his 2 kids? Again, that's not a hard choice imho.


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## Akjohn

Tested_by_stress said:


> I'm not following you. Why would he need to sacrifice his relationship for the first two? The OP did state that he only saw his first two 3 times in the last 5 years despite only living 200 miles apart. He als said this was to keep the peace with wife # 2. What kingpd of woman would force a man to choose between her and his 2 kids? Again, that's not a hard choice imho.


It wouldnt have been a hard choice if in one of the marriages no children were involved. But in both marriages there were 2 children, making it pretty hard to make a choice. And the question of choice still lingers: go back to wife #1 with now grown up son #1 to compensate for the loss of daughter #1 and to reduce the guilt of not being there for family #1, a family where I may recover my crown as the head with much love, but bear the brunt of leaving children #2 fatherless? Or stick with wife #2 with hefty restrictions and mind controls, but with the massive burden of the loss of daughter #1 and not being there for family #1??? What should I do???

And to those thinking of divorce out there: think twice!!! The grass is greener on the other side till you get there. Been in this battle since 12 years after divorce. Some are lucky its a clean break and all good after; for others, its long years of pshychological, mental, moral, financial and even physical nightmares just beginning.


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## Diana7

I think a lot of the issues between the wives are due to the fact that you cheated on one with the other. 
This will always cause pain. Probably why they hate each other. 

I wonder if a member of her family can come and stay with her from her home country? 

You have stayed a few days already, how long did you want to go for? How long does your ex wife want you to go for? Days? Weeks?


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## Openminded

I’m very sorry about your daughter. 

Is your current wife of the same culture that you and your ex are from?


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## BeyondRepair007

I’m really sorry I for your loss akjohn.

Unfortunately my words probably won’t help your healing in that regard. 18 years old, such a tragic loss.

From what I can tell of your story, neither of these women trust you and there’s real problems between these two women because of that. I really think you should have taken charge of this situation in your life way before now for the sake of your kids.

At this point your message to these two women should be to act like adults, put the war on hold, let grief happen, and get through the ceremonies. Even if they have to be in the same room at times. Once life resumes they can go back to hating each other if they must but ask for a pause in hostilities right now to get through this.

Many others have told you to pull your head out when it comes to xW and start behaving like H to W2. I echo those thoughts.

Get W1 out of your head and let her grieve in her own way. There’s no need for you to be anything but cordial to her, you are divorced and chose a new life with W2. Any thoughts or feelings you have around “family #1” are reasons for W2 to freak out because that includes W1. Stop that. Protect W2s feelings around this issue.

I don’t know what it would take for W2 to support you through this, but she needs to do it. And you need to man up and do everything under the sun to make her feel comfortable with that decision. Even driving 400 miles every day if need be. Whatever she needs, do that. The history here tells me the solution won’t be simple or easy to make this happen so be prepared for some work. In fact you may not get an ideal grieving environment for yourself, but I hope you figure it out for your son. This is the cost for dealing with loss in such a messed up situation. You’ve got to be there for your son while protecting family #2.

You kind of built a mess here and it won’t be smoothed over by a few kind words I’m afraid. Once this time is past, fix the mess.

I sincerely wish I could say the right words to ease pain in a time of unbearable loss. But I fear there really aren’t any.


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## Hopeful Cynic

I'm so sorry to hear about your poor innocent daughter, but you really did create this mess yourself. The pain of infidelity lingers forever.

You have clearly already chosen wife and family #2 many times over in the past 12+ years. Coming back into the lives of family #1 now, even for a funeral, will only cause more heartbreak for them. Stay in contact with your adult son independently, let your ex-wife make all the funeral arrangements like the single mom she's had to be for the last twelve years, and show up to the service on time and leave afterwards. Paying for it could be your contribution instead of your presence. If you couldn't be there for them when you were married to #1, and couldn't be there for them in the 12 years since your divorce, being there for them now is pretty meaningless.

Wife #2 sounds really controlling though. She still feels threatened by #1 and has been really trying hard to pretend you don't have family #1 out there, and force you to join her in that pretense. This is not surprising behaviour since she knows you're capable of cheating. You might want to start standing up to her more if you want to remain in contact with your adult son.


----------



## Talker67

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think if your wife has a big problem with it, she needs to take off work or whatever and go with you. Just banning you from going doesn't make much sense to me. But she should be accompanying you since she has worries about your boundaries. She can't just stay home and then gripe about it.
> 
> So terribly sorry for your loss.


that is what i immediately though. why did you and your current wife not go to the wake and funeral together.

it is a little odd for you to be at your ex wives house outside of those two public events.


----------



## happiness27

Akjohn said:


> My daughter, beautiful, intelligent, caring 18 years old, tragically passed away last week. We are still mourning and grieving the unimaginable loss.
> 
> Apart from the great loss, her death shattered the otherwise fragile foundations of my present marriage.
> 
> I have been divorced from my Ex-wife of 18 year, for 12 years now. I have been married to my present wife for these 12 years.
> 
> From previous marriage I have a son of 24 and a daughter who passed away last week, of 18.
> 
> With my present wife I have a boy of 10 and a girl of 8.
> 
> The 2 families live about 200 miles apart in different cities.
> 
> My Ex-wife did not remarry, instead, chosed to dedicate her life and time raising our 2 children who were 10 and 5 (son, daughter respectively, when I left the family).
> 
> Tragically, my first daughter passed away, leaving only her mother and her elder brother all alone. They are a close-knit immigrant family with few friends.
> 
> When I recieved the sad news, I immediately drove the 200 miles to my Ex-wife and first son to mourn and grief. As the father of the deceased, my actions and reactions to be present, grief, co-comfort and co-console with my ex and our first son, in their house, was natural, instantaneous and logical. Am I wrong, please?
> 
> This is because my present wife is very much against my going to my previous wife's house to grief and console with my previous family. I travelled down and after 1.5 days, my wife demanded I return back home. On my return home, after 2 days of mourning separately (myself at my home with present wife and 2 kids on one hand, and my Ex and our remaining son in another home 200 miles away on another hand), I couldnt bear the additional pain of leaving my Ex and our son all lone to grief all by themselves with little or no friends/relatives, and travelled back again to spend additional 3 days with them.
> 
> Obviously my present wife is not having any of this, and I can feel/see my present marriage being on the line as I still cant help but wanting to go back to provide any support I could to the grieving Ex and son, afterall we are the 3 on the same boat of mourning, we were a family and we lost one of us; who would understand better and feel the pain we are going through?
> 
> My present wife has now practically placed our marriage and family on notice, hence I'm self-locked up in my home while my Ex and son grieve alone. Am I wrong please? Am I doing the right thing? My heart and mind is with them in this difficult times, I wish to be there physically to support them in this grieving times, but my current marriage and family is at stake if I do so. What should I do please?
> 
> Right now, as the father of the deceased and with no one to help, I have been working on the funeral arrangements all by telephone, online, via emails etc. But I know/feel the right thing to do is go back to the Ex and son, together make these arrangements...which flowers to choose, which cemetry, which funeral package, costs etc etc. But I dare not go, else my present wife gives me the boot. What should I do???????? Kindly please help!!! Please advise!!! Thank you.



I lost my oldest daughter in 1995. The grief is excruciating. I can't fathom what it would be like to have an unsupportive spouse. My demeanor was pretty much a short fuse with anyone who didn't understand the boulder of grief that had just come down on me. I remember the minister who was going to conduct the funeral telling me that I couldn't write a eulogy and have her read my guidelines for the funeral - she told me "that's not how I do a funeral" and I told her in front of everybody that she was free to stay or go at that point but she would not be conducting the funeral. (Really proud of myself I said that with such reserve since the rage inside of me was screaming expletives.)

Do what you have to do. GO. Be with your son. Be with your EX with whom you shared your daughter as a parent. Don't apologize. I don't think your present wife is anywhere close to right in this situation. Her demands are outrageous and damaging.

And I don't think you are "odd" in any way, shape or form. I think you are devastated and doing the absolute best you can.


----------



## SunCMars

It seems, no it is prudent...

You need to separate from both these wives.

You lost a young woman, your daughter.
You have two woman, acting as battle-axes, with you in the middle.

This time around, do yourself a favor and become a monk.
Not literally, but figuratively.

You have a bad lady picker, both enjoy picking you apart.

Your life would be so much easier if you had no woman in your life.
Alas, who can do that?

Not one, who is a healthy male.

Get divorced.

Stay single, pick those dates when those sweet dates are ripe for picking.
Take the fruit, spit the seed into the sea, create no more family trees.

You may chuckle, but keep in mind, that this will never end for you unless you can unwind yourself from these lady tentacles.


King Brian-

Thou hast a dastardly afflicted Moon, methinks.


----------



## Talker67

SunCMars said:


> It seems, no it is prudent...
> 
> You need to separate from both these wives.
> 
> You lost a young woman, your daughter.
> You have two woman, acting as battle-axes, with you in the middle.
> 
> This time around, do yourself a favor and become a monk.
> Not literally, but figuratively.
> 
> You have a bad lady picker, both enjoy picking you apart.
> 
> Your life would be so much easier if you had no woman in your life.
> Alas, who can do that?
> 
> Not one, who is a healthy male.
> 
> Get divorced.
> 
> Stay single, pick those dates when those sweet dates are ripe for picking.
> Take the fruit, spit the seed into the sea, create no more family trees.
> 
> You may chuckle, but keep in mind, that this will never end for you unless you can unwind yourself from these lady tentacles.
> 
> 
> King Brian-
> 
> Thou hast a dastardly afflicted Moon, methinks.


i do not think he needs to divorce.
but these two women really are playing with his mind, and using a tragic event for some possibly nefarious other purpose.

his current wife needs to support him. and that means GOING to the funeral and wake, and not causing family feuds along the way. dress in some nice black outfit and keep her friging mouth shut the entire time


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## Diana7

Talker67 said:


> i do not think he needs to divorce.
> but these two women really are playing with his mind, and using a tragic event for some possibly nefarious other purpose.
> 
> his current wife needs to support him. and that means GOING to the funeral and wake, and not causing family feuds along the way. dress in some nice black outfit and keep her friging mouth shut the entire time


Yes agreed, but I dont think he should spend days or weeks with his ex just to try and assuage his guilt over abandoning them for his new wife.


----------



## Talker67

i


Diana7 said:


> Yes agreed, but I dont think he should spend days or weeks with his ex just to try and assuage his guilt over abandoning them for his new wife.


I see what you did there. its a good point


----------



## Akjohn

Just want to say thank you very much for all your comments, responses, advises, words of consolation, condolence and wisdom. A very big thanks to you all. Its been a very difficult time... its hurts deeply hard to loss someone...a daughter with such promising future, beautiful, intelligent, wonderful and perfect in all shape and form... but God knows best.

I really appreciate your taking some time to advise a total stranger so much in need of light to navigate through poorly-illuminated treacherous marriage terrains... again, thank you. Wonderful words have been said, and I m taking all on board.



Diana7 said:


> I think a lot of the issues between the wives are due to the fact that you cheated on one with the other.
> This will always cause pain. Probably why they hate each other.
> 
> I wonder if a member of her family can come and stay with her from her home country?
> 
> You have stayed a few days already, how long did you want to go for? How long does your ex wife want you to go for? Days? Weeks?


Well, not really sure about the cheating, but admittedly, the circumstances at that time 12 years ago were no different to cheating... maybe. But I did tried to remain straight, faithful and loyal all along.

They hate each other, among many other reasons, because wife #1 would not move on, declared she only wants her husband back, her husband or no one else. And its been 12 years!!! Wife #2 sees this as a continual threat unfortunately. Again, please note, I'm not proud of all these and certainly regret my actions with how I have managed these situations.

And no, not possible to have someone come from her home country... visa and time.

My heart yearned to stay till after my daughter's funeral, but reading the kind comments on the forum, I'm beginning to see things from many angles rather than from my previous probably tunnel vision.



Openminded said:


> I’m very sorry about your daughter.
> 
> Is your current wife of the same culture that you and your ex are from?


Yes and no. Me and wife 2 same culture; me and wife 1 different culture.


----------



## Akjohn

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m really sorry I for your loss akjohn.
> 
> Unfortunately my words probably won’t help your healing in that regard. 18 years old, such a tragic loss.
> 
> From what I can tell of your story, neither of these women trust you and there’s real problems between these two women because of that. I really think you should have taken charge of this situation in your life way before now for the sake of your kids.
> 
> At this point your message to these two women should be to act like adults, put the war on hold, let grief happen, and get through the ceremonies. Even if they have to be in the same room at times. Once life resumes they can go back to hating each other if they must but ask for a pause in hostilities right now to get through this.
> 
> Many others have told you to pull your head out when it comes to xW and start behaving like H to W2. I echo those thoughts.
> 
> Get W1 out of your head and let her grieve in her own way. There’s no need for you to be anything but cordial to her, you are divorced and chose a new life with W2. Any thoughts or feelings you have around “family #1” are reasons for W2 to freak out because that includes W1. Stop that. Protect W2s feelings around this issue.
> 
> I don’t know what it would take for W2 to support you through this, but she needs to do it. And you need to man up and do everything under the sun to make her feel comfortable with that decision. Even driving 400 miles every day if need be. Whatever she needs, do that. The history here tells me the solution won’t be simple or easy to make this happen so be prepared for some work. In fact you may not get an ideal grieving environment for yourself, but I hope you figure it out for your son. This is the cost for dealing with loss in such a messed up situation. You’ve got to be there for your son while protecting family #2.
> 
> You kind of built a mess here and it won’t be smoothed over by a few kind words I’m afraid. Once this time is past, fix the mess.
> 
> I sincerely wish I could say the right words to ease pain in a time of unbearable loss. But I fear there really aren’t any.


Thank you very much for these factual words... I have to admit yes, I may have created unwittingly, unintentionally a mess along the line. I pray for strength to bear the loss of my daughter, and the wisdom to navigate through this family minefield. I pray for the opportunity to come out of this in one piece, without further hurting anybody.

I have taken on board very valuable lines, great words of wisdom from your comments... thank you!!! Some are easier said than done, but will have to try.



> Get W1 out of your head and let her grieve in her own way. There’s no need for you to be anything but cordial to her, you are divorced and chose a new life with W2. Any thoughts or feelings you have around “family #1” are reasons for W2 to freak out because that includes W1. Stop that. Protect W2s feelings around this issue.


W1 and family #1 was/were there when I was nobody, was/were there in my struggling days when I could only put 1 meal a day on the table... I cant take off the guilt and the continual sense of responsibility to still be in their lives especially at this tragic moment... but again, I read your lines loud and clear... some hard choices need to be taken...


----------



## Akjohn

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about your poor innocent daughter, but you really did create this mess yourself. The pain of infidelity lingers forever.
> 
> You have clearly already chosen wife and family #2 many times over in the past 12+ years. Coming back into the lives of family #1 now, even for a funeral, will only cause more heartbreak for them. Stay in contact with your adult son independently, let your ex-wife make all the funeral arrangements like the single mom she's had to be for the last twelve years, and show up to the service on time and leave afterwards. Paying for it could be your contribution instead of your presence. If you couldn't be there for them when you were married to #1, and couldn't be there for them in the 12 years since your divorce, being there for them now is pretty meaningless.
> 
> Wife #2 sounds really controlling though. She still feels threatened by #1 and has been really trying hard to pretend you don't have family #1 out there, and force you to join her in that pretense. This is not surprising behaviour since she knows you're capable of cheating. You might want to start standing up to her more if you want to remain in contact with your adult son.


Thank you very much @Hopeful Cynic. Understood well the comments, allowing me the opportunity to view from different more levelled more better perspectives. Thank you!! 



> If you couldn't be there for them when you were married to #1, and couldn't be there for them in the 12 years since your divorce, being there for them now is pretty meaningless.


Pretty strong, but you are certainly very right. Though sometimes its never too late to correct some perceived wrongdoings if that would help the other or both parties? Is it bad to appear on wife #1 doorstep with luggage and words of request for forgiveness?? But then how do I handle not being there for children #2??? 

But sure, I'm fully understanding the direction of the general consensus that my loyalty should remain with family #2 no matter what the circumstances may be, even during these grieving times. Hard, but ok...


----------



## Akjohn

Talker67 said:


> that is what i immediately though. why did you and your current wife not go to the wake and funeral together.
> 
> it is a little odd for you to be at your ex wives house outside of those two public events.


The funeral preparation is ongoing, and wife #1 would not want to see wife #2. Wife #2 specifically asked to come pay tribute/condolence but wife #1 will not have it. Wife #2 will definitely come, but stay in hotel I think.


----------



## Akjohn

happiness27 said:


> I lost my oldest daughter in 1995. The grief is excruciating. I can't fathom what it would be like to have an unsupportive spouse. My demeanor was pretty much a short fuse with anyone who didn't understand the boulder of grief that had just come down on me. I remember the minister who was going to conduct the funeral telling me that I couldn't write a eulogy and have her read my guidelines for the funeral - she told me "that's not how I do a funeral" and I told her in front of everybody that she was free to stay or go at that point but she would not be conducting the funeral. (Really proud of myself I said that with such reserve since the rage inside of me was screaming expletives.)
> 
> Do what you have to do. GO. Be with your son. Be with your EX with whom you shared your daughter as a parent. Don't apologize. I don't think your present wife is anywhere close to right in this situation. Her demands are outrageous and damaging.
> 
> And I don't think you are "odd" in any way, shape or form. I think you are devastated and doing the absolute best you can.


Thank you very much Happiness27. To be deeply sincere and honest, this is what my heart tells me to do, where my heart yearns for. But as you can see, lots of comments here indicate that not necessarily where my heart clamours for I have to go. But again, many thanks for your comments/advise. Taken on board.


----------



## Akjohn

SunCMars said:


> It seems, no it is prudent...
> 
> You need to separate from both these wives.
> 
> You lost a young woman, your daughter.
> You have two woman, acting as battle-axes, with you in the middle.
> 
> This time around, do yourself a favor and become a monk.
> Not literally, but figuratively.
> 
> You have a bad lady picker, both enjoy picking you apart.
> 
> Your life would be so much easier if you had no woman in your life.
> Alas, who can do that?
> 
> Not one, who is a healthy male.
> 
> Get divorced.
> 
> Stay single, pick those dates when those sweet dates are ripe for picking.
> Take the fruit, spit the seed into the sea, create no more family trees.
> 
> You may chuckle, but keep in mind, that this will never end for you unless you can unwind yourself from these lady tentacles.
> 
> 
> King Brian-
> 
> Thou hast a dastardly afflicted Moon, methinks.


This is one of clear options on my desk for after the funeral. Not sure however, if I will have the strength to fight the ensuing battle... another divorce battle. But yes, admittedly, its on the table, not on the top of the list, but a candidate option to be watched as a function of how the current events evolve. I pray I never have to go through a divorce again though, but if needed for peace... well...


----------



## Akjohn

Diana7 said:


> Yes agreed, but I dont think he should spend days or weeks with his ex just to try and assuage his guilt over abandoning them for his new wife.


@Diana7, thank you... I'm seeing your point... it helps to see from the way you put it.

@Talker67, I also appreciate your comment. Thank you


----------



## Akjohn

Again.. I thank everyone for the comments, words of advises, words of wisdom... Highly appreciated🙏🙏🙏


----------



## Tested_by_stress

For the life of me, I can't understand why wife #1 wants you back or anything to do with for that matter. It sounds like she's wasted 12 years of her life waiting for you to come back. I really feel for her. She should have moved on by now. 
As for #2, I'd miss her funeral before I'd ever miss my daughter's.


----------



## Diana7

Akjohn said:


> This is one of clear options on my desk for after the funeral. Not sure however, if I will have the strength to fight the ensuing battle... another divorce battle. But yes, admittedly, its on the table, not on the top of the list, but a candidate option to be watched as a function of how the current events evolve. I pray I never have to go through a divorce again though, but if needed for peace... well...


Abandoning another family is hardly the answer. You have responsibilites, you can't run away again just because things get challenging in the marriage.

Your ex wife must make the effort to integrate. Not knowing the language of the country you live in after 12 years is madness. She has to accept your marriage is over and make a life for herself. Either that or maybe move back to her home country.


----------



## Luckylucky

It was perhaps easier and convenient to have the two women hate each other, rather than be allies, wasn’t it? Because the real problem is not your ex or your current wife. You get to escape both women’s wrath and avoid any responsibility for anything. This was your mistake (or plan). Imagine the last 12 years differently. Your two women bonded and your 4 children bonded. You had something to lose in this scenario: what was it?

What would both women have had to say to eachother, once they were finally allowed to sit together over coffee, without you present. Can you picture this scenario?

It appears to me that there is some significant isolation of every single party here: your first wife in a foreign country left alone (you stated you were king, you were feared and also loved). Yet you still kept tabs here on her life, every aspect of it. How did she decide, as a single mother, with no friends or family, to never ever move on? If my daughters were taken away to a foreign country, and left with two children by a man who left them for another woman, you can bet I’d be crowd funding to have them brought home. Or sent a steady stream of family to visit every six month. How does this happen to a person? 

But we have a picture of a second wife who is controlling. I don’t see it that way, I believe she too has been kept away from the first wife and kid. And that the two sets of kids have been willingly kept apart by you. I do not believe for a minute, that either woman is wrong. Your second wife is reacting to something far greater than just keeping you away from grieving from your daughter.

It is much much easier, for you, to have the women and children at war.

Because for a self-confessed king, it would have been quick and simple, to pass all of this onto the women: here ex and current wife, I demand you sit together and fight it out, get it all out, and decide to be friends. I insist you both get to the task of helping these kids be a family.

Can you do this?


----------



## Akjohn

Luckylucky said:


> It was perhaps easier and convenient to have the two women hate each other, rather than be allies, wasn’t it? Because the real problem is not your ex or your current wife. You get to escape both women’s wrath and avoid any responsibility for anything. This was your mistake (or plan). Imagine the last 12 years differently. Your two women bonded and your 4 children bonded. You had something to lose in this scenario: what was it?
> 
> What would both women have had to say to eachother, once they were finally allowed to sit together over coffee, without you present. Can you picture this scenario?
> 
> It appears to me that there is some significant isolation of every single party here: your first wife in a foreign country left alone (you stated you were king, you were feared and also loved). Yet you still kept tabs here on her life, every aspect of it. How did she decide, as a single mother, with no friends or family, to never ever move on? If my daughters were taken away to a foreign country, and left with two children by a man who left them for another woman, you can bet I’d be crowd funding to have them brought home. Or sent a steady stream of family to visit every six month. How does this happen to a person?
> 
> But we have a picture of a second wife who is controlling. I don’t see it that way, I believe she too has been kept away from the first wife and kid. And that the two sets of kids have been willingly kept apart by you. I do not believe for a minute, that either woman is wrong. Your second wife is reacting to something far greater than just keeping you away from grieving from your daughter.
> 
> It is much much easier, for you, to have the women and children at war.
> 
> Because for a self-confessed king, it would have been quick and simple, to pass all of this onto the women: here ex and current wife, I demand you sit together and fight it out, get it all out, and decide to be friends. I insist you both get to the task of helping these kids be a family.
> 
> Can you do this?


I appreciate your view point, @Luckylucky. I definitely did not keep them apart with prospects of any benefit. The gap between the 2 families evolved naturally due to the separation on one hand, and percieved threats on another hand. 

Yes, I did tried to at least unit both families, it didnt work out. Specific examples: wife #2 asked to reach out to wife #1 to visit and offer condolence, to stay and support wife #1 in this grieve, but wife #1 categorically rejects, she wount want to see wife #2 or have anything to do with her. 

I did not command to have and or intentionally had the 2 families placed apart... they wouldnt just allow any thought of unity even in this moment of grieve. From both sides, their messages are clear "Either here or there!!". No in-betweens, not even in this difficult moment. They wount even allow me to arrange for my daughter's funeral with peace and sound mind. Every step I have to take puts everything at stake.


----------



## Akjohn

Unfortunately my delima still lingers, the problems still persist with no clear path out of the grieve and mess I admit I got everyone into.

Against my wish, against my conscience, against my believe, against my personality and against my heart but for the uphold of family 2 and the 2 little children, for my responsibility as a father (as also opined by @Diana7:


Diana7 said:


> Abandoning another family is hardly the answer. You have responsibilites, you can't run away again just because things get challenging in the marriage.


 ..., and also in line with some of the advises given here, I had to and have watch wife #1 and son #1 grieve without me being able to console adequately when I went to visit couple days ago in preparation for the funeral arrangements. I had to leave a still utterly distraughted wife #2 behind still in tears at the loss of our daughter, our own daughter that we so much loved, that we brought and raised up, that we nurtured up, that we together cared for and saw her rise through her first breath in life to her first steps to the beautiful, intelligent and much loved teenager she was with all her achievements... I had to say sorry but I have to go back to my other family while they (wife #1 and son #1) are deeply hurt and mourning... and just the 2 alone... I had to leave them in this extremely difficult times...????? Just because I have family 2???? Where is the humanity in man???? Why is the world so cruel?????? Just because I'm married to someone else so there should be zero feelings even in this moment of tragedy when we need each other the most????? I pray God forgives me for my actions even though these actions are completely against my comprehension, but all in effort to safe family #2, remain loyal to wife #2, be a father to children #2. Hard, but it is well.


----------



## lifeistooshort

What about it not being your job to console your ex wife do you not understand?

Of course be available to your son, but do it without staying with your ex.


----------



## Akjohn

Small update:
Couple days ago, had to travel to family #1 city to honour an appointment with the funeral director for our beloved daughter. Obviously wife #1 and myself were at the appointment where we had to go through extremely surreal experience in life, selecting which coffin, which flowers, when, what etc for the burial...

I paased the night in wife #1's city in a hotel, and was back to family #2 the next day, as indicated above, with extremely heavy heart at the sight of leaving wife #1 and son #1 alone in this horrible moment.

Due to the grieving and funeral arrangements coupled with workloads, I did not forget but it dawn on me that son #1's birthday is tomorrow the 14th Feb. I called wife #2 and explained, craving for her support and understanding, that it would be ideal I be with son #1 on his special day, to offer support on his birthday which he will be passing through in grief of the lost of his sister. I also explained to wife #2 that my presence with him on his birthday (again, no celebrations... who celebrates when they are grieving????) even if just to hug and support is more significant if she takes into consideration that in last 12 years since I have been married to wife #2, only a couple of times have I been present on son #1's birthday since the day is unique (14th Feb) and Valentine is sacrosanct to her (wife #2) hence typically on these days I have always had to be with her on Valentine rather than honour my son's birthday. These I had to do mainly to preserve my marriage #2. 

However, today, I called wife #2 for a heart to heart conversation, expecting her understanding to waive and allow to go back to family #1 to be with son tomorrow as an exception to the majority of previous 14th Febs., an exception bourne about from this tragedy of loss of daughter... but no, wife #2 wount have it, went ballistic, and asked to choose: here or there!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of her words...:

"You just came back 2 days ago and now you want to go back again???..."

"He's 24 years old and not a baby for christs sake!!! You have no business visiting your 24 yrs old on his birthday even during grieving..."... "...because his mum is there..."

"You make me feel like me and my 2 children are less important to you...you always placed your other 2 children in fore front like they are the only ones you care about..."

"It is never done anywhere...ask anybody. You left them, that's all. No business going to console even during grieve from loss of life..."

"I'm also human and I have feelings..."

"I'm fed up of this marriage!! I dont care any more!!!"

"Make up your mind and leave if you want to leave..."

"How are you sure this marriage is not already broken..."

"I have made up my mind already..."

I reminded here family #1 paved the way for her when I was a labourer, they paved the way for this family #2 when I became CEO, and she: "I never begged you to marry me".

...And loads and loads of other words uttered in anger and shouts as we feuded...

What a mess I have created, but truth is, I never expected this mess.


----------



## Akjohn

lifeistooshort said:


> What about it not being your job to console your ex wife do you not understand?
> 
> Of course be available to your son, but do it without staying with your ex.


Ok..and I fully understand that now. No matter how hard it is, it is now understood. Hard to understand...especially given that the life that was lost was not a third party related to my ex-wife and not directly related to me...for example, we are not talking about wife #1's father or mother or uncle passing away and I am saying hey, I need to go console. We are talking about my daughter, our joint daughter with wife #1, a daughter we saw came to life and rised together...

Again, hard to understand, but ok..understood!!! I'll ignore wife #1.

But the practicallity of just being there for my son #1 is the issue: he still lives with his mum/wife #1. There's no way I would drive down to them, arrive at their house and from the window of my car say "hey son, can you come out of the house and lets have a drive...?" with no decency and heart from me to even knock and say to wife #1 "so sorry we lost our daughter..."??? Is this what you want me to do, @lifeistooshort????????

And to make thing worse, son #1 wount even come out... he's been all by himself locked up, wount go out, wount see anybody...you hear just cries and weeps through the door... He was really close to his younger sister...they grew up together as one even when dad was away with God knows who. I fear for son #1's mental health, but to get to him, i need to step though their doorstep, and I cant do so by just barging in likes its my home, ignoring wife #1.

I dont really get it, but ok... understood... maybe. For peace, understood!!!! It is well!!!


----------



## blahfridge

Your present wife is entitled, selfish, and without compassion for your son. Let her know in no uncertain terms that you WILL be spending the day with your son for his birthday this year and if it’s divorce she wants then she can go ahead and file. I bet you anything that she’ll back down. It’s time you put both the ex and current wife in their respective places.
Spending time with your son does not mean you have to interact with his mother. Take him out to dinner, have him stay the night with you at the hotel so you can console him and spend some quality time with him. Assure him that he can visit whenever he wants, that you will pay for a hotel for him (since your wife doesn’t want him at your house) and that he can get through the loss of his beloved sister with your support.


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## Akjohn

One thing that has to be understood, is that, right now (and for a ling time since I left home), son #1's loyalty is on his mum's side. They're probably feeling this pain more heavily than I do, according to wife #1 even though I disagree. That I come in with interest only to son #1 while sidelining his mum because its not my business consoling his mum for the loss of my daughter, his sister,... I m sure son #1 is watching and assimilating all these. I fear for a time he will say "dad, i dont want to see you again...you cant even help my mum even when my sister died...you have your other family, go and dont come again... dont hurt mum any further..."!!! Then I would be lossing not daughter #1 alone, but also son #1. And I will ask...such huge losses all for who??? Bossy wife #2 and the 2 small children????? What will I say to myself??????


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## Akjohn

Akjohn said:


> with no decency and heart from me to even knock and say to wife #2 "so sorry we lost our daughter..."??? Is this what you want me to do, @lifeistooshort????????


Sorry... here I mean to say wife #1, not wife #2


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## lifeistooshort

Akjohn said:


> Ok..and I fully understand that now. No matter how hard it is, it is now understood. Hard to understand...especially given that the life that was lost was not a third party related to my ex-wife and not directly related to me...for example, we are not talking about wife #1's father or mother or uncle passing away and I am saying hey, I need to go console. We are talking about my daughter, our joint daughter with wife #1, a daughter we saw came to life and rised together...
> 
> Again, hard to understand, but ok..understood!!! I'll ignore wife #1.
> 
> But the practicallity of just being there for my son #1 is the issue: he still lives with his mum/wife #1. There's no way I would drive down to them, arrive at their house and from the window of my car say "hey son, can you come out of the house and lets have a drive...?" with no decency and heart from me to even knock and say to wife #2 "so sorry we lost our daughter..."??? Is this what you want me to do, @lifeistooshort????????
> 
> And to make thing worse, son #1 wount even come out... he's been all by himself locked up, wount go out, wount see anybody...you hear just cries and weeps through the door... He was really close to his younger sister...they grew up together as one even when dad was away with God knows who. I fear for son #1's mental health, but to get to him, i need to step though their doorstep, and I cant do so by just barging in likes its my home, ignoring wife #1.
> 
> I dont really get it, but ok... understood... maybe. For peace, understood!!!! It is well!!!


Stop throwing a tantrum...its a deflection tactic. There is a long road between "ignoring" your ex and staying at her house.

Plan the service with your ex, even take a phone call to talk about your daughter. Meet her for lunch WITH your wife...if ex refuses that's her problem. Ex doesn't get to demand to see you without your wife as long as your wife is respectful.

This would be good boundaries and you wouldn't have to ignore anyone.


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## Akjohn

lifeistooshort said:


> Stop throwing a tantrum...its a deflection tactic. There is a long road between "ignoring" your ex and staying at her house.
> 
> Plan the service with your ex, even take a phone call to talk about your daughter. Meet her for lunch WITH your wife...if ex refuses that's her problem. Ex doesn't get to demand to see you without your wife as long as your wife is respectful.
> 
> This would be good boundaries and you wouldn't have to ignore anyone.


Sorry if it seemed i was throwing tantrum... i was just trying to elaborate on the situation. 

But ok, i get and do respect your points...certainly contains some important takeaways, thanks.

"Ex doesn't get to demand to see you without your wife as long as your wife is respectful." Ex doesnt demand to see me as such; I know its my duty to see her under the tragic circumstances we find ourselves in right now. Remember that in last 5 years, i saw her and children #1 only 3 times. She respected that i am with another family and hence didnt press for the usual life-complicating stuffs Exes do, like weekly visitations or collection of the children to stay with me, unreasonably financial demands/burdens etc., all which, if she (wife 1) had demanded, would have lead to family #2 crumbling long long time ago. So the boundaries were pretty much in place and the distances and mutual respect were there. I would've just expect that due to this exceptional circumstances stemming from a loss of life, some rules could be relaxed, at least in this grieving period. But its hard to believe that grief or no grief, life lost or not, even if its your daughter life that's lost, just be strong and maintain your lane!!! Ok!!!

What wife 1 is saying is that, "dont come here if you have to come with others. If you have to come with wife 2/kids 2, then go away, you are not welcomed here". Its very easy for me to hold on to these her words and walk away to be with family 2, never to look back at family 1 again. But deep within me, I know I shouldnt do that. There should be a better way, especially given that wide 1 never wronged me: i wronged her.

"Meet her for lunch WITH your wife..."...Would've been great!!! But tried getting wife 2 to visit wife 1, wife 1 didnt even want to hear.


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## Akjohn

Tested_by_stress said:


> For the life of me, I can't understand why wife #1 wants you back or anything to do with for that matter. It sounds like she's wasted 12 years of her life waiting for you to come back. I really feel for her. She should have moved on by now.
> As for #2, I'd miss her funeral before I'd ever miss my daughter's.


"It sounds like she's wasted 12 years of her life waiting for you to come back."... Exactly same thing she's saying. But I told her several times that she needs to move on, that she needs to do whats best for her self, what will make her happy, that she shouldn't wait for me because I can not guarantee I will move out of current marriage 2. Yet she wount listen and would cling to anything that looks like hope. When I saw that my coming on visit were like giving hope in her eyes, I allowed myself to agree with wife 2 and then cut back on this visits...hence only 3 times in last 5 years. Similarly, just mere calling to say "how are you and the children"...mere calling alone is like giving hope. Hence many instances of 3 or even 6 months without communication with wife 1, all in effort to give her space to move on, meet people etc, contrary to what many accused me of not giving her breathing space to move on. She just doesn't and wouldnt, instead, dedicating her life to raising the 2 children. She's been singlehandedly doing this since when daughter was 5 till when she clocked 18 and we all thought finally, they are adults now. Then tragedy struck!!! I certainly feel bad and devastated!!! She's even worse, still in denial and not accepting the loss.


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## lifeistooshort

Akjohn said:


> Sorry if it seemed i was throwing tantrum... i was just trying to elaborate on the situation.
> 
> But ok, i get and do respect your points...certainly contains some important takeaways, thanks.
> 
> "Ex doesn't get to demand to see you without your wife as long as your wife is respectful." Ex doesnt demand to see me as such; I know its my duty to see her under the tragic circumstances we find ourselves in right now. Remember that in last 5 years, i saw her and children #1 only 3 times. She respected that i am with another family and hence didnt press for the usual life-complicating stuffs Exes do, like weekly visitations or collection of the children to stay with me, unreasonably financial demands/burdens etc., all which, if she (wife 1) had demanded, would have lead to family #2 crumbling long long time ago. So the boundaries were pretty much in place and the distances and mutual respect were there. I would've just expect that due to this exceptional circumstances stemming from a loss of life, some rules could be relaxed, at least in this grieving period. But its hard to believe that grief or no grief, life lost or not, even if its your daughter life that's lost, just be strong and maintain your lane!!! Ok!!!
> 
> What wife 1 is saying is that, "dont come here if you have to come with others. If you have to come with wife 2/kids 2, then go away, you are not welcomed here". Its very easy for me to hold on to these her words and walk away to be with family 2, never to look back at family 1 again. But deep within me, I know I shouldnt do that. There should be a better way, especially given that wide 1 never wronged me: i wronged her.
> 
> "Meet her for lunch WITH your wife..."...Would've been great!!! But tried getting wife 2 to visit wife 1, wife 1 didnt even want to hear.


It's ok, I understand. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that you've lost your daughter....that is horrendous.

I think a bigger picture is emerging here. This is what I see....please correct if I'm mistaken.

You left wife #1 for wife #2. Wife #1 was understandably pissed off, but she punished you by withholding your kids and you didn't fight that. It's unconscionable that you've barely seen your older children. I can understand wife #1 not wanting #2 around but at a certain point she should've come to terms with the fact that you're married and she shouldn't be keeping her kids from their father because she's pissed off at his wife. It wasn't reasonable to declare that the kids can't see their father if his wife is there even if she has good reason to be upset.

And on top of that she prevented a relationship with their half siblings. So from where I sit, all adults here are selfish. Your wife had an affair with a married man, you had an affair/left your wife/left your kids, and your ex wife penalized her children by preventing a relationship with their father and half siblings in the hope he'd come back.

You cannot help your guilt by staying with your ex and being her main support. That doesn't mean you can't be a kind person, it's just not your place to be the main one. You are not her husband and you have a wife.

If you didn't have kids with #2 this would be easier. But what's going to happen if you're not careful is that wife #2 will divorce you and find another guy to help raise your kids. If you go back to #1 then #2 might pay both of you back by keeping her kids from you if #1 is around. The whole situation is terrible.

If you are otherwise reasonably happy with #2 you need to prioritize her for the sake of your younger kids.

Once again, I'm sorry about your daughter.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

lifeistooshort said:


> It's ok, I understand. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that you've lost your daughter....that is horrendous.
> 
> I think a bigger picture is emerging here. This is what I see....please correct if I'm mistaken.
> 
> You left wife #1 for wife #2. Wife #1 was understandably pissed off, but she punished you by withholding your kids and you didn't fight that. It's unconscionable that you've barely seen your older children. I can understand wife #1 not wanting #2 around but at a certain point she should've come to terms with the fact that you're married and she shouldn't be keeping her kids from their father because she's pissed off at his wife. It wasn't reasonable to declare that the kids can't see their father if his wife is there even if she has good reason to be upset.
> 
> And on top of that she prevented a relationship with their half siblings. So from where I sit, all adults here are selfish. Your wife had an affair with a married man, you had an affair/left your wife/left your kids, and your ex wife penalized her children by preventing a relationship with their father and half siblings in the hope he'd come back.
> 
> You cannot help your guilt by staying with your ex and being her main support. That doesn't mean you can't be a kind person, it's just not your place to be the main one. You are not her husband and you have a wife.
> 
> If you didn't have kids with #2 this would be easier. But what's going to happen if you're not careful is that wife #2 will divorce you and find another guy to help raise your kids. If you go back to #1 then #2 might pay both of you back by keeping her kids from you if #1 is around. The whole situation is terrible.
> 
> If you are otherwise reasonably happy with #2 you need to prioritize her for the sake of your younger kids.
> 
> Once again, I'm sorry about your daughter.


100% this.
OP you can’t be a loving supporting husband to both women. You can be kind, you can even be empathic and compassionate towards wife1 when there are tough times. But you need to make wife2 the priority, and make sure she knows it through your actions (not just words).

Wife2 is taking a hard line with some points I might not completely agree with but I also can’t really blame her for setting tight boundaries when her husband is spending nights with the ex and acting like he has 2 wives.

Be there for son1 as much as possible, but don’t lose sight of boundaries and respect for wife2/family2 or you will lose them.

Im so sorry for your loss. Such a tragedy and parents aren’t built for this sort of pain. I lost my wife at 44 and saw the pain MIL went through. Its just unnatural.


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## Openminded

Is it part of your culture that the funeral takes place weeks later?


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## Akjohn

Openminded said:


> Is it part of your culture that the funeral takes place weeks later?


I tried not to bring in cultural considerations in the funeral preparations since both parents come from different cultures and all living in a third country.

The death was tragic and not natural under circumstances hitherto not fully known and under police investigations, hence the go-ahead for funeral was given by the Coroner only recently. The earliest available date for funeral was given by the Funeral Director, amounting to several weeks after her death. We had no control over the earliest burial date even though I would have preferred it to be much earlier.


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## Akjohn

lifeistooshort said:


> It's ok, I understand. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that you've lost your daughter....that is horrendous.
> 
> I think a bigger picture is emerging here. This is what I see....please correct if I'm mistaken.
> 
> You left wife #1 for wife #2. Wife #1 was understandably pissed off, but she punished you by withholding your kids and you didn't fight that. It's unconscionable that you've barely seen your older children. I can understand wife #1 not wanting #2 around but at a certain point she should've come to terms with the fact that you're married and she shouldn't be keeping her kids from their father because she's pissed off at his wife. It wasn't reasonable to declare that the kids can't see their father if his wife is there even if she has good reason to be upset.
> 
> And on top of that she prevented a relationship with their half siblings. So from where I sit, all adults here are selfish. Your wife had an affair with a married man, you had an affair/left your wife/left your kids, and your ex wife penalized her children by preventing a relationship with their father and half siblings in the hope he'd come back.
> 
> You cannot help your guilt by staying with your ex and being her main support. That doesn't mean you can't be a kind person, it's just not your place to be the main one. You are not her husband and you have a wife.
> 
> If you didn't have kids with #2 this would be easier. But what's going to happen if you're not careful is that wife #2 will divorce you and find another guy to help raise your kids. If you go back to #1 then #2 might pay both of you back by keeping her kids from you if #1 is around. The whole situation is terrible.
> 
> If you are otherwise reasonably happy with #2 you need to prioritize her for the sake of your younger kids.
> 
> Once again, I'm sorry about your daughter.


Bless you, @lifeistooshort. May you continue to be endowed with great understanding and wisdom helping total strangers in these complex terrain called marriage.

All you have said is absolutely correct, line by line all accurate, except just for this: "Your wife had an affair with a married man, you had an affair/left your wife/left your kids...". No, she did not. Wife 1 never cheated, never had any affair, i can authoritatively confirm. Reasons for my leaving were complex at that time, including mid life crisis on my side and my falling in love with wife 2, among many many other reasons which, at today's standpoint, may be completely almost baseless. So wife 1 had no blame at all.

Else, your analysis is very valid.

And thanks for this:
"If you are otherwise reasonably happy with #2 you need to prioritize her for the sake of your younger kids."Taken on board. The problem is just that feeling that the happiness is based on the sorrow of others. How can I be happy if wife 1 not moving on and this tragedy occurs even further shattering wife 1/family 1. How can I be happy driving around in latest Range Rover Vogue and wife 2 in latest Range Rover Evoque while wife 1 rides on bicycle to work and shops even though I talked her out of it after several near-misses on the road but she wouldnt listen...she wouldnt want a driving license??...just a real example...

The price of happiness is even more heavier to bear now with daughter's death. But again, many thanks for the advise; I pray I get the strength to do just as you advised.


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## Openminded

Wife #1 is blameless regarding having an affair with a married man but Wife #2 isn’t. I can’t imagine why Wife #2 would think Wife #1 would ever forgive her (assuming she does think that — maybe she doesn’t). My exH remarried immediately after our divorce but _not _to his affair partner. I accepted his second wife, for the most part, but I never would have accepted him marrying his affair partner. Huge difference. I have to say I feel for Wife #1 but not so much for Wife #2. I wish all of you healing.


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## lifeistooshort

Akjohn said:


> Bless you, @lifeistooshort. May you continue to be endowed with great understanding and wisdom helping total strangers in these complex terrain called marriage.
> 
> All you have said is absolutely correct, line by line all accurate, except just for this: "Your wife had an affair with a married man, you had an affair/left your wife/left your kids...". No, she did not. Wife 1 never cheated, never had any affair, i can authoritatively confirm. Reasons for my leaving were complex at that time, including mid life crisis on my side and my falling in love with wife 2, among many many other reasons which, at today's standpoint, may be completely almost baseless. So wife 1 had no blame at all.
> 
> Else, your analysis is very valid.
> 
> And thanks for this:
> "If you are otherwise reasonably happy with #2 you need to prioritize her for the sake of your younger kids."Taken on board. The problem is just that feeling that the happiness is based on the sorrow of others. How can I be happy if wife 1 not moving on and this tragedy occurs even further shattering wife 1/family 1. How can I be happy driving around in latest Range Rover Vogue and wife 2 in latest Range Rover Evoque while wife 1 rides on bicycle to work and shops even though I talked her out of it after several near-misses on the road but she wouldnt listen...she wouldnt want a driving license??...just a real example...
> 
> The price of happiness is even more heavier to bear now with daughter's death. But again, many thanks for the advise; I pray I get the strength to do just as you advised.


I didn't mean wife #1 had an affair....I assumed she didn't. I meant wife #2....she knew you were married, correct? So she had an affair with a married man.

Wife #1's fault lies in her using the kids to punish you. 

As for her not moving on, there's nothing you can do about that. That's her decision.

What do you want? Do you love your wife? Did you have a good marriage before this tragedy? I'm thinking of your younger kids at this point and how you can manage the damage right now..


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## Akjohn

BeyondRepair007 said:


> OP you can’t be a loving supporting husband to both women. You can be kind, you can even be empathic and compassionate towards wife1 when there are tough times.


The kindness and compassion towards wife1 is all I'm trying to do in this difficult times as we try to get out of the tragedy. Thats all I wanted to do, but wife 2 wount just allow with her actions and tough stance.



BeyondRepair007 said:


> But you need to make wife2 the priority, and make sure she knows it through your actions (not just words).


Ok...thanks...appreciated.



BeyondRepair007 said:


> for setting tight boundaries when her husband is spending nights with the ex and acting like he has 2 wives.


I didnt and wasnt spending nights with wife 1; I stay in hotels and let wife 2 knows which hotel I stay. The only time i stay the night was on the first night of the tragic event, and that "stay" was not something I would wish even my worst enemy, because it was the first night of weeping and wailing from the untimely and tragic loss of a loved child. If anyone considers that to be "stayed the night with Ex-wife" as wife 2 hitherto accuses me of, then I pray they dont have to experience never ever such nights in their lives. It is well!!!



BeyondRepair007 said:


> Be there for son1 as much as possible, but don’t lose sight of boundaries and respect for wife2/family2 or you will lose them.


Thank you, will try do. The balancing is challenging, hence my reaching out in this forum. I feel wife 2 is not being supportive enough in this tough period...but I see from some comments here that I'm wrong.



BeyondRepair007 said:


> Im so sorry for your loss. Such a tragedy and parents aren’t built for this sort of pain. I lost my wife at 44 and saw the pain MIL went through. Its just unnatural.


Very unnatural, @BeyondRepair007, very unnatural!! Extremely tough, unimaginable, painful...


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## Openminded

I agree that Wife #2 isn’t being supportive but is that really surprising? My take (and I could be wrong) is that she wasn’t at all unhappy that you didn’t see your children from your first marriage. Maybe she felt she had replaced them with the children she has with you and that you didn’t need contact with them?


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## blahfridge

This whole situation sounds like a soap opera.
@Akjohn, I thought it was wife #2 that kept you from your children with your first wife? Is this correct?


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## Akjohn

lifeistooshort said:


> What do you want? Do you love your wife? Did you have a good marriage before this tragedy? I'm thinking of your younger kids at this point and how you can manage the damage right now..


Thank you very much, @lifeistooshort. I really appreciate you.

"Do you love your wife?" --- Frankly, I do, but cant stand and cant bear the fact that wife 1 needs me for support at this sad time due to the loss of our joint daughter, and I m not there for her because of restrictions from wife 2/marriage 2.

"Did you have a good marriage before this tragedy?" --- In past 3-4 years, I would say yes. But before then, it was really tough mainly due to same issue of family1/family 2, but we both (wife 2 and I) held on against all odds. The moment I was able to understand to create hard boundaries since last 4-5 years but at the expense of not seeing my first children regularly (though we communicate regularly on phone), frankly, yes, some element of peace and progress settled in in marriage 2, until this tragedy came. But now I feel so horrible at creating such hard boundaries with family 1/children 1 now that daughter 1 is gone. Would have spent much more time in her life instead. No body expected this sad turn of events.


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## Akjohn

Openminded said:


> I agree that Wife #2 isn’t being supportive but is that really surprising? My take (and I could be wrong) is that she wasn’t at all unhappy that you didn’t see your children from your first marriage. Maybe she felt she had replaced them with the children she has with you and that you didn’t need contact with them?


Clearly that's the feeling I think she has, to be honest. Else I feel she should be the one to say, "hey darling, you need to go see your children", but never, she wount, and when I do say it instead, 90% of times it leads to feuds and fightings. I remember her popular saying at some point used to be "In our tradition, the children go to seek their father once they're grown up, and not the father seeking for them..." after the father has remarried. Though admittedly, there were times she did supported, coming with me to family 2 city but staying in hotel with me while I go visit family 1 at their house (which was another point of contention because she believes I shouldnt even step into family 1's house at all).


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## Akjohn

blahfridge said:


> This whole situation sounds like a soap opera.
> @Akjohn, I thought it was wife #2 that kept you from your children with your first wife? Is this correct?


Thats pretty correct, though as I have elaborated here, its a combination of many things all revolving around wife 2 and keeping marriage 2 intact...together with my weakness...maybe?...poor judgement maybe? Missed priorities maybe...? But yes, I feel wife 2 should have been much much much supportive with my interaction with children 1, although if that had happened, family 2/marriage 2 may have been over a long time ago, since to get to children 1 I have to go over wife 1 and wife 2 clearly noticed this. Wife 1 heavily kept the children under her wings such that unless I come with "good face" she was nover going to let me interact with/see the children. But generally wife 2 believes that family 1 "is your past and past should be kept past" and should have nothing to do with and shouldnt disturb current family 2. This is where the pushback from me and the back and forth and ensuing feuds came from all these years, till I gave in to her demands and allowed a bigger gap since 5 years ago. But then this happened.

I just expected that, with this tragic event and the ongoing mourning, she (wife 2) ahould be more relaxed and supportive, at least till after the funeral, but she wount; essentially making me to put her and family 2 on the line at every move or steps I make in this difficult time of grief. As example, re going to be with son 1 to support him on his birthday (remember...not to celebrate as he's still in grieving too, but just to be with him and console) which is tomorrow given that I rarely go to his birthday being on a valentine and instead always chosing to stay with her (wife 2) knowing how she loves the valentines, she put our marriage on the line by saying "chose between your son/them or us, make up your mind. If you go, thats it"!!!


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## Luckylucky

Ok it’s becoming clearer that wife 2 has wanted your past wiped out and has controlled you here. She’s scared, that’s about it. Blended families are tough, but hers seems to be a hard line. She’s reduced humans (your children) to past.

She was never secure in this relationship.

What was wife #2 like as an affair partner? What made you fall in love with her? Who pursues who, and how did you finally end your first marriage?


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## BeyondRepair007

Akjohn said:


> "Do you love your wife?" --- Frankly, I do, but *cant stand and cant bear the fact that wife 1 needs me for support *at this sad time due to the loss of our joint daughter, and I m not there for her because of restrictions from wife 2/marriage 2.


The bolded part is the crux of the problem in my opinion and drives everything else that's wrong here.
Wife2 knows directly or at least senses your emotional connection to wife1.
That causes her to be defensive, set tight boundaries, and try to drive a wedge between you and family1. As @Luckylucky said, she's insecure and reacting to that.
You can have empathy for wife1 in this tragedy, but it should be from a distance. Wife1 should have her own support system after 12 years.

OP and others want to blame wife2 for these reactions and maybe she deserves that to some extent.
But while she is so insecure I don't think you'll get support for doing the very thing she's fighting against (you being around wife1 for any length of time).



Akjohn said:


> but no, wife #2 wount have it, went ballistic, and asked to choose: here or there!!!!!!!!!!!


The Feb14 birthday issue was a huge mistake. Prioritizing son1/wife1 ("_go back to family #1 to be with son_") over wife2 on Valentines Day? Ouch. Your request sent the wrong message to wife2, as evidenced by her reaction.

My thought has been and continues to be, deal with (ie... eliminate) your feelings for wife1 and prioritize wife2/family2/son1. Or be prepared for divorce2.
Then man-up and fix the mess and lead your family.


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## Livvie

Why did you let wife 2 keep you from visiting with your older children all of these years? Make sure you don’t let her continue to do that with your older son. Set up a visitation schedule. He needs you.


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## lifeistooshort

Livvie said:


> Why did you let wife 2 keep you from visiting with your older children all of these years? Make sure you don’t let her continue to do that with your older son. Set up a visitation schedule. He needs you.


I don't think that's entirely what happened. Wife #1 told him he couldn't see his kids if wife #2 was there and he didn't fight that.

When he says #1 was not supportive it seems to me that she was not ok with catering to #1 which meant him going without her to hang with #1. He feels she should've pandered to #1 and told him to go ahead and hang out with #1 and kids without her.

Not saying #1 didn't have reason to be upset, but to demand he come to her without his wife to see his kids isn't reasonable.

He should've stepped up and set boundaries here and he did not.


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## Affaircare

@Akjohn,

I have read along on all 4 pages of this thread, so may I give you an example of a HEALTHY interaction?

My exH and I divorced in 2002, so we've been divorced 20 years now. We had two children together: 2 sons. ExH remarried. My 2nd H and I were married for 12 years, and he had 5 children of his own--so I have 5 step-kids--and he passed away in 2017. I remarried in 2019 and my current husband has 2 daughters--so I have 2 more step-kids. 

In the course of my life, I did not "hate" my ex in-laws (his family). We decided that we were no longer family, but we could choose to stay friends if we wanted. Some of them did stay friends. Some didn't and we just didn't bother each other. And in the course of time, my ex MIL passed away. I am an EX...so even though my exH was grieving his own mom and my children were grieving their grandmother (and I was grieving the loss of someone who once meant something to me) I did not rush to his side to comfort him. I also did not turn to him for my own grief. They lived nearer to where my MIL had lived, so they made the funeral arrangements. I did phone call our children and FaceTime video call our children. I was supportive of my children from a respectful distance. And whatever grief I may have personally felt, I dealt with and addressed with either my kids or my current spouse. 

See, in a more HEALTHY interaction, when my exH and I divorced, I let him go and he let me go. He actually moved to another state. One son lives nearer to me--the other nearer to him (both are grown). Both kids see us both but see the nearer parent more often. And I am no involved AT ALL in my exH's marriage or family...and he is not involved AT ALL with my marriage or family. 

Now ideally, the ex and the new spouse get along at least enough to be civil. That doesn't seem to be the case here. But over and over again, you have argued strenuously that since you and exW share the child, that you would turn to exW and Son to grieve together. You made a pledge to W2 to leave all others and cleave to her! So you're breaking your marriage vows. I get it--grief is HARD. It would be so nice if exW and W2 could be civil during this time. Yep, it would be! But they aren't and your LOYALTY should be 100% to your current wife. To me, it's no wonder she's paranoid because you've shown her time and again that your loyalty is with your exW and Son.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

If I was the wife of someone who had children with his ex wife, those children would be able to come and stay with us anytime. If the x wife was grieving I would go with my husband give her support, or I would stay nearby so they could grieve the loss of their daughter. Can't believe your wife made your son sleep in an airbnb. Why would she do that? Did you not bring him to stay with you, or stay in the airbnb with him? Your wife no 2 is jealous of wife no 1, yet it was this wife you had an affair with. She has no rights at all when she stole you from your 1st wife. Now you need to become a stronger man and stop letting these 2 women say what you can and can't do.


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## Diana7

This thread shows so clearly the awful consequences of cheating and abandoning your family for another person. Very sad for the children.


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