# Found explicit text messages in fiance's old phone.....



## EHuntIMF

UGH! 

Ok....I will make this quick, I know I need some wisdom and guidance because my head is spinning between what I saw and what she is telling me.

quick summary: GF(35) and I(36) have been together around 3 years. I asked her to marry me on New Years this year. Well I helped her move into her new apartment this weekend and during the move I found her old phone.

I admit it...I looked. Can't explain it, just a familiar feeling came back to me from my days of being with the ex-wife.

The phone was her old phone that she used before upgrading to her current phone which goes back to November 2015. I found that she was texting 3 others guys during Sept. 2015 and 1 of the guys was an ex that she said," Had a really strong hold on me..." 

The text messages between her and the ex were very explicit and it appeared that she was planning on meeting up with him. Long story short, the only reason it appears that the meeting didn't happen was because I feel asleep on her couch that night. Apparently they were going to meet up when I left, but I didn't.

I confronted her with the phone (I made screenshots on her phone and transferred the screenshots to mine as back-up....she doesn't know). She begins to try and see what I know about what's in the phone, but I just sit and stare at her in silence, waiting for her answers. She finally begins to say that she doesn't remember what was in the text and then she refuses to look at the messages saying, "I am not going to do this right now." (phone was unlocked) 

She then starts to telling me the reason that she did communicate with the Ex....she said that I hurt her when I lied to her about the plane tickets.

_BACKGROUND- I lied about a female friend getting my cousin and I last minute plane tickets for a Superbowl party. I told her we got the tickets through my cousin's military discount (lie) and he was paying for both of our tickets (True)_ 

She also stated that we were in a bad place then, and she was doing it to get attention since I was so busy, but that was 2015 and she is concentrating on 2017. She was different person over a year ago, and that I am the only man she wants to be with. I call her on the fact, that if the situation was reversed; we wouldn't even be having a conversation because she would be to busy trying to pull the knife out of my chest. (Her dad cheated on her mom and she described that as a deal breaker, with lying being a strong #2) {A dealbreaker for me because of my ex-wife}

_Background- 2015 was a rough year for us. We both went through several deaths in 2014 (6 for her, including her mom to cancer & 3 for me [cousin, and friends]) and we actually was in couples counseling in 2016 for all the issues we had (arguments, accusations, etc..) _

Basically I feel lost and unsure what to do, because a part of me wants to believe her and believe it was for attention and try to move forward since we are in a good place right now. BUT I am torn because the messages basically said that the only reason they didn't hook up was because I was acting "like a F%&kin guard dog", by sleeping on her couch. The messages were from 2015, and I don't know what is on her phone now.

I am halfway to just calling it quits because I don';t want to put up with this from anyone else.....Am I being gaslighted here to make me feel sympathy for her?

I don't plan on talking to her today to get my head straight....

Need help... thanks in advance


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## sokillme

This is a mess, first of don't feel guilty about trusting your gut. Next why are you lying to her that is not how a good relationship works. Finally because you lied about tickets she decided to sext an ex. Seriously? She then tells you it was because she is lonely. Um life 101 everyone gets lonely. People who have to contact ex-partners because you are busy have no business being married. A healthy and frankly very normal response for this is saying "hey I am really feeling lonely lets do something, go on a trip, day trip, get coffee every night." This is how normal healthy people deal with this. Seriously call it quits, sounds like you already went through this once. She is no prize. There are thousands and thousands of better women out there.

You need to figure out why you are ending up with these types of women. Your lying because you are afraid to talk about stuff is a good start. It's already a passive aggressive dynamic.


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## TX-SC

You are not married to her. I think you should walk. Your gut is telling you the same thing. She is not a "keeper". 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist

Don't set a wedding date... there is not nearly enough trust and truth between the two you right now.

People do change, all things do, but that is an awful short time for the hurdles this creates for you.

Date your fiancé a good bit more... and if no children are involved, a "no-ex" boundary should apply for you both.


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## lifeistooshort

Why did you feel the need to lie about getting tickets?

I think that question needs to be answered.


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## Keke24

You hurt her because you lied about sourcing plane tickets ... She was doing it for attention ...

Typical cheater MO, blame it on anything but your own choices.

Where is the remorse? She was texting 3 other guys? At the honeymoon stage of your relationship? Cheating is a deal breaker? This from a cheater?

Would you feel any different if she had slept with the OM?

I'd say look at this as dodging a bullet and call it quits.


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## Yeswecan

EHuntIMF said:


> UGH!
> 
> 
> 
> She also stated that we were in a bad place then, and she was doing it to get attention since I was so busy, but that was 2015 and she is concentrating on 2017.


Sigh....so next time you are not dancing around her providing attention she will do this again? Might want to step back and reconsider.


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## badmemory

Dating and an engagement period is tantamount to an audition for both parties - assuming you had an exclusive relationship. You're fortunate to have found out what she is capable of before you tied the knot. Add to that, her explanation demonstrated that she felt little or no remorse.

And, lying about Superbowl tickets showed her, that you are capable of lying to her; but it does not come close to attempting to cheat on you. It should also put a doubt in your mind whether she cheated other times that you don't know about.

If you marry this woman and she eventually is unfaithful, you can't say you couldn't see it coming. My advice; cut the cord now, and appreciate the bullet you dodged. You found out she is not marriage material.


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## snerg

EHuntIMF said:


> UGH!
> 
> Ok....I will make this quick, I know I need some wisdom and guidance because my head is spinning between what I saw and what she is telling me.
> 
> quick summary: GF(35) and I(36) have been together around 3 years. I asked her to marry me on New Years this year. Well I helped her move into her new apartment this weekend and during the move I found her old phone.
> 
> I admit it...I looked. Can't explain it, just a familiar feeling came back to me from my days of being with the ex-wife.
> 
> The phone was her old phone that she used before upgrading to her current phone which goes back to November 2015. I found that she was texting 3 others guys during Sept. 2015 and 1 of the guys was an ex that she said," Had a really strong hold on me..."
> 
> The text messages between her and the ex were very explicit and it appeared that she was planning on meeting up with him. Long story short, the only reason it appears that the meeting didn't happen was because I feel asleep on her couch that night. Apparently they were going to meet up when I left, but I didn't.
> 
> I confronted her with the phone (I made screenshots on her phone and transferred the screenshots to mine as back-up....she doesn't know). She begins to try and see what I know about what's in the phone, but I just sit and stare at her in silence, waiting for her answers. She finally begins to say that she doesn't remember what was in the text and then she refuses to look at the messages saying, "I am not going to do this right now." (phone was unlocked)
> 
> She then starts to telling me the reason that she did communicate with the Ex....she said that I hurt her when I lied to her about the plane tickets.
> 
> _BACKGROUND- I lied about a female friend getting my cousin and I last minute plane tickets for a Superbowl party. I told her we got the tickets through my cousin's military discount (lie) and he was paying for both of our tickets (True)_
> 
> She also stated that we were in a bad place then, and she was doing it to get attention since I was so busy, but that was 2015 and she is concentrating on 2017. She was different person over a year ago, and that I am the only man she wants to be with. I call her on the fact, that if the situation was reversed; we wouldn't even be having a conversation because she would be to busy trying to pull the knife out of my chest. (Her dad cheated on her mom and she described that as a deal breaker, with lying being a strong #2) {A dealbreaker for me because of my ex-wife}
> 
> _Background- 2015 was a rough year for us. We both went through several deaths in 2014 (6 for her, including her mom to cancer & 3 for me [cousin, and friends]) and we actually was in couples counseling in 2016 for all the issues we had (arguments, accusations, etc..) _
> 
> Basically I feel lost and unsure what to do, because a part of me wants to believe her and believe it was for attention and try to move forward since we are in a good place right now. BUT I am torn because the messages basically said that the only reason they didn't hook up was because I was acting "like a F%&kin guard dog", by sleeping on her couch. The messages were from 2015, and I don't know what is on her phone now.
> 
> I am halfway to just calling it quits because I don';t want to put up with this from anyone else.....Am I being gaslighted here to make me feel sympathy for her?
> 
> I don't plan on talking to her today to get my head straight....
> 
> Need help... thanks in advance


For you:
The lie about getting the tickets - beyond dumb. All lies come with a consequence. Just stop that practice.
Never telling a lie means you only have to remember the truth.

For her:
So things got tough and she went looking elsewhere.

The fact that you were there *that* night only prevented her from going over. What about any other night? Too much drama, especially during your honeymoon phase.


For me, this is a deal breaker. Even I was engaged.

I would walk


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## Grapes

the best indication of future behavior is past behavior.

And you really think she hasnt contacted him since she changed phones? Bull****. If the text messages you saw were sexual and there wasn't an end such as "I have a BF we cant be doing this" then she was still contacting him after her phone upgrade. take it to the bank.

and stop lying. Be true to yourself my man. Its the only way.


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## TheTruthHurts

Ask her when she planned to tell you. I'm sure she'll stumble on that one. Then ask her when she plans to tell you about the rest and leave it hanging...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator

*Provided that these communications were going on while you two were not actively going together, then none of that is really germane!

If however it was, then it is something of a rather serious nature!

I really believe that your "gut instincts" will absolutely tell you more than you will ever want to know!*


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## DonaldDuck666

Run for zee hills, man. Fast.


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## azteca1986

EHuntIMF said:


> She also stated that we were in a bad place then, and she was *doing it to get attention since I was so busy*, but that was 2015 and she is concentrating on 2017.


Usual cheater-speak. What happens next time when, not if, you're busy and she doesn't feel she's getting the attention she deserves?

Planning to hook up is bad enough. Save yourself more heartache and don't marry this woman, there are plenty of better life-partners out there.


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## TX-SC

FWIW, my situation was similar to yours. Fiancé cheated not too long before we were to get married. I dumped her immediately. I later met my wife and we have now been married for 21 years. 

Don't settle for a cheater. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## uhtred

Is your relationship otherwise wonderful and worth saving?


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## GusPolinski

EHuntIMF said:


> UGH!
> 
> Ok....I will make this quick, I know I need some wisdom and guidance because my head is spinning between what I saw and what she is telling me.
> 
> quick summary: GF(35) and I(36) have been together around 3 years. I asked her to marry me on New Years this year. Well I helped her move into her new apartment this weekend and during the move I found her old phone.
> 
> I admit it...I looked. Can't explain it, just a familiar feeling came back to me from my days of being with the ex-wife.
> 
> The phone was her old phone that she used before upgrading to her current phone which goes back to November 2015. I found that she was texting 3 others guys during Sept. 2015 and 1 of the guys was an ex that she said," Had a really strong hold on me..."
> 
> The text messages between her and the ex were very explicit and it appeared that she was planning on meeting up with him. Long story short, the only reason it appears that the meeting didn't happen was because I feel asleep on her couch that night. Apparently they were going to meet up when I left, but I didn't.
> 
> I confronted her with the phone (I made screenshots on her phone and transferred the screenshots to mine as back-up....she doesn't know). She begins to try and see what I know about what's in the phone, but I just sit and stare at her in silence, waiting for her answers. She finally begins to say that she doesn't remember what was in the text and then she refuses to look at the messages saying, "I am not going to do this right now." (phone was unlocked)
> 
> She then starts to telling me the reason that she did communicate with the Ex....she said that I hurt her when I lied to her about the plane tickets.
> 
> _BACKGROUND- I lied about a female friend getting my cousin and I last minute plane tickets for a Superbowl party. I told her we got the tickets through my cousin's military discount (lie) and he was paying for both of our tickets (True)_
> 
> She also stated that we were in a bad place then, and she was doing it to get attention since I was so busy, but that was 2015 and she is concentrating on 2017. She was different person over a year ago, and that I am the only man she wants to be with. I call her on the fact, that if the situation was reversed; we wouldn't even be having a conversation because she would be to busy trying to pull the knife out of my chest. (Her dad cheated on her mom and she described that as a deal breaker, with lying being a strong #2) {A dealbreaker for me because of my ex-wife}
> 
> _Background- 2015 was a rough year for us. We both went through several deaths in 2014 (6 for her, including her mom to cancer & 3 for me [cousin, and friends]) and we actually was in couples counseling in 2016 for all the issues we had (arguments, accusations, etc..) _
> 
> Basically I feel lost and unsure what to do, because a part of me wants to believe her and believe it was for attention and try to move forward since we are in a good place right now. BUT I am torn because the messages basically said that the only reason they didn't hook up was because I was acting "like a F%&kin guard dog", by sleeping on her couch. The messages were from 2015, and I don't know what is on her phone now.
> 
> I am halfway to just calling it quits because I don';t want to put up with this from anyone else.....Am I being gaslighted here to make me feel sympathy for her?
> 
> I don't plan on talking to her today to get my head straight....
> 
> Need help... thanks in advance


Immediately -- and permanently -- dump her.


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## GuyInColorado

This one is simple. Access her phone bill and see if she is texting him in the past 15 months. She must allow you access or the engagement is off. This is the only way you will have peace of mind going forward, no matter how it turns out.


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## Talker67

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Don't set a wedding date... there is not nearly enough trust and truth between the two you right now.
> 
> People do change, all things do, but that is an awful short time for the hurdles this creates for you.
> 
> Date your fiancé a good bit more... and if no children are involved, a "no-ex" boundary should apply for you both.


^this^. what is the rush! keep engaged, delay the marriage for a good couple years, and see how it all works out. IF it is to be, it will become obvious over the next year or so.


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## 225985

uhtred said:


> Is your relationship otherwise wonderful and worth saving?




This is what you should be focused on, rather than the dozen guys that say dump her.


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## Talker67

GusPolinski said:


> Immediately -- and permanently -- dump her.


i am not so sure. you guys HAVE been thru hell lately. If you can pop out on the other side and see the sunny day, you will have that as a bonding experience. The question you need to figure out...is she a cheating POS, OR is she just confused and had a moment of weakness (sexting) while under great stress.


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## azteca1986

blueinbr said:


> This is what you should be focused on, rather than the dozen guys that say dump her.


Why's that?


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## sokillme

blueinbr said:


> This is what you should be focused on, rather than the dozen guys that say dump her.


You can have the best chemistry but if the person cheats it doesn't mean squat. The most important thing for a good marriage is character.


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## SunCMars

When a women buys a dog, she does so for one of two reasons.

1) To keep her amused. As a subconscious outlet, as in instinctual, allowing her to be a mother and a nurturer. Even to a pooch.

2) She needs a guard dog. To bark when trouble nears and to bite when it arrives.

Every women worth her salt wants her man to be her guard dog.

Sounds like you are her miniature poodle. Her ex still marks her territory. And likely waters her bush.

She is not over him. She was happy getting over on you. 

It is the lucky women that has two dogs sniffing her crotch. Lucky? Yes, for Waywards have their own code of conduct.


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## sokillme

Talker67 said:


> OR is she just confused and had a moment of weakness (sexting) while under great stress.


Like this makes it OK. :rofl:

Life is stressful. Reading this boards has taught me so many people settle for so little.


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## Maricha75

lifeistooshort said:


> Why did you feel the need to lie about getting tickets?
> 
> I think that question needs to be answered.


I am wondering the same thing. The part about the female friend having been the one who actually got the tickets makes me wonder if he lied because his fiancee doesn't like the female friend... Funny how no one else seems to wonder about that... Only that she was in contact with an ex, and likely would have hooked up with him. Then again, maybe not. Maybe his staying there that night actually DID bring her to her senses. We don't know. And certainly those clamoring for him to just dump her don't know, either. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Openminded

You may be in a good place now but what happens the next time you aren't. Is she likely going to need attention again or do you feel that was a one-time lapse. Obviously, you could be wrong either way but that's the risk you take. 

Up to this point you felt she was worth marrying. Now you have to reevaluate. Take your time and make your best judgment. But if you do decide to marry her you should wait at least a couple of years -- or more. Always easier to end things before marriage than after.


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## 225985

sokillme said:


> You can have the best chemistry but if the person cheats it doesn't mean squat. The most important thing for a good marriage is character.




That's you speaking not OP. My post was to him, not you, and for him to decide what he wants and where to draw the line. 

We all get that you are against reconciliation under any circumstances.


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## GusPolinski

uhtred said:


> Is your relationship otherwise wonderful and worth saving?





blueinbr said:


> This is what you should be focused on, rather than the dozen guys that say dump her.





Talker67 said:


> i am not so sure. you guys HAVE been thru hell lately. If you can pop out on the other side and see the sunny day, you will have that as a bonding experience. The question you need to figure out...is she a cheating POS, OR is she just confused and had a moment of weakness (sexting) while under great stress.


LOL.

It's great and she's awesome.

_That's_ why she's sexting exes.

:lol: :rofl:

OP, roughly two seconds worth of actually thinking about this will have you realizing that she didn't stop at sexting.

Oh and BTW...

Have you looked at her _current_ phone as well?


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## GusPolinski

azteca1986 said:


> Why's that?


Because _feewings_.


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## Maricha75

GusPolinski said:


> LOL.
> 
> It's great and she's awesome.
> 
> _That's_ why she's sexting exes.
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> OP, roughly two seconds worth of actually thinking about this will have you realizing that she didn't stop at sexting.
> 
> Oh and BTW...
> 
> Have you looked at her _current_ phone as well?


Personally, I would like to know more about why he lied about his FEMALE FRIEND actually getting the tickets. But, apparently, that isn't NEARLY as important to some people here. Fiancee didn't care that he went, didn't care when it was thought it was solely the cousin... But he felt the need to lie about his FEMALE friend doing it? Hmmmm... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

Maricha75 said:


> Personally, I would like to know more about why he lied about his FEMALE FRIEND actually getting the tickets. But, apparently, that isn't NEARLY as important to some people here. Fiancee didn't care that he went, didn't care when it was thought it was solely the cousin... But he felt the need to lie about his FEMALE friend doing it? Hmmmm...


So now we're haggling about who should dump who?


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## 225985

GusPolinski said:


> LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> It's great and she's awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> _That's_ why she's sexting exes.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> OP, roughly two seconds worth of actually thinking about this will have you realizing that she didn't stop at sexting.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and BTW...
> 
> 
> 
> Have you looked at her _current_ phone as well?




A clean current phone tells him little. Either she is not cheating or she is but cleaned the phone. 

But by chance there is incriminating texts on the current phone, he should know what to do.


It's easy to laugh at someone suffering and asking for advice.


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## Thor

Get to rejection quickly. Don't waste your valuable time on a poor prospect. She has proven she has the capability to cheat, and she has proven she will shift the blame onto you. There is nothing in what she has said or done which indicates she understands how wrong it was to do what she did. There is good reason to believe she could have cheated many times already but you just have not detected it.

If you were looking to buy something expensive and it had that kind of bad history you would not buy it. The risk of failure is high with this one.

You could choose to spend more years with her and hope it works out ok. Those would be years of your life you can never get back. 

Your choice. Cut your losses now and move on to a better life, or stay with this one while hoping she doesn't cheat again.


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## Maricha75

GusPolinski said:


> So now we're haggling about who should dump who?


Not at all. I am not suggesting either one of them dumping the other. I'm saying maybe we should shut up and he should explain why he LIED to her about the girl who got the tickets. Why would you lie about something like that, if there is nothing to hide? But, it's much easier for him to just put everything in his fiancee, because he saw texts on her old phone, from when they were in a bad place in the relationship, yes? Do I condone explicit texts with her ex? Hell no! But I also don't condone the lying in the first place. And without having the WHOLE picture, I am not quick to jump on the "dump her/him" bandwagon, either. But, what do I know? Maybe that is why he posted in the first place? He knew he would get the "dump her" advice right away, while downplaying what he did in the first place... and he would feel validated in the decision he already made. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

Talker67 said:


> ^this^. what is the rush! keep engaged, delay the marriage for a good couple years, and see how it all works out. IF it is to be, it will become obvious over the next year or so.


Yes, this is fair. 

But only if your heart is bound to her. If you truly love this women.

If not, then risk not. 

If she has been a good partner the last year or so, then consider giving her a chance. She will step up, after this kerfuffle.....or she will not.

Me? I am risk averse when it comes to who I let in my heart.


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## sokillme

blueinbr said:


> That's you speaking not OP. My post was to him, not you, and for him to decide what he wants and where to draw the line.
> 
> We all get that you are against reconciliation under any circumstances.


With your thinking I am not surprised you are for it. He is not even married an you are having him stay with a cheater, this just shows her how she can treat him. But by all means OP follow this advice but don't be surprised when she cheats on you again when times get rough like they always do. Can't say you didn't know how she deals with rough times. When things get rough she doesn't talk to you she starts texting ex boyfriends. The perfect wife and mother. :wink2: 

BIB I would love to sell you this bridge I own in Brooklyn.


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## sokillme

blueinbr said:


> A clean current phone tells him little. Either she is not cheating or she is but cleaned the phone.
> 
> But by chance there is incriminating texts on the current phone, he should know what to do.
> 
> 
> It's easy to laugh at someone suffering and asking for advice.


He is laughing at how bad the advice is. Not OP.


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## sokillme

Maricha75 said:


> Not at all. I am not suggesting either one of them dumping the other. I'm saying maybe we should shut up and he should explain why he LIED to her about the girl who got the tickets. Why would you lie about something like that, if there is nothing to hide? But, it's much easier for him to just put everything in his fiancee, because he saw texts on her old phone, from when they were in a bad place in the relationship, yes? Do I condone explicit texts with her ex? Hell no! But I also don't condone the lying in the first place. And without having the WHOLE picture, I am not quick to jump on the "dump her/him" bandwagon, either. But, what do I know? Maybe that is why he posted in the first place? He knew he would get the "dump her" advice right away, while downplaying what he did in the first place... and he would feel validated in the decision he already made.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


It think it is quite obvious that neither one of these two should be marring anyone right now.


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## Chaparral

Maricha75 said:


> Not at all. I am not suggesting either one of them dumping the other. I'm saying maybe we should shut up and he should explain why he LIED to her about the girl who got the tickets. Why would you lie about something like that, if there is nothing to hide? But, it's much easier for him to just put everything in his fiancee, because he saw texts on her old phone, from when they were in a bad place in the relationship, yes? Do I condone explicit texts with her ex? Hell no! But I also don't condone the lying in the first place. And without having the WHOLE picture, I am not quick to jump on the "dump her/him" bandwagon, either. But, what do I know? Maybe that is why he posted in the first place? He knew he would get the "dump her" advice right away, while downplaying what he did in the first place... and he would feel validated in the decision he already made.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


I don't know but I'm guessing the comment about her pulling a knife out of his chest if he had done this gives us a hint.>


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## uhtred

If the current relationship has other issues as well, then its simple. Leave and move on. Why waste your life finding out exactly what happened. 

OTOH if the current relationship is really great in other ways, then its at least worth considering finding ways to save it. Not everyone reacts the same way to infidelity. For some its a absolute relationship ender, for others it can be forgiven. 






azteca1986 said:


> Why's that?


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## Maricha75

sokillme said:


> It think it is quite obvious that neither one of these two should be marring anyone right now.


On this, I would agree. My only concern is the "dump her" mentality, as if he did nothing wrong. The guy has been on TAM for about 6 years. He KNOWS not to lie to his girlfriend about something like that because, even if there was nothing to it, it APPEARS as if there is something there. And she would retaliate. And if there is a problem between the girlfriend and the friend, what is the usual advice given? I an not one to say "absolutely no OSF, ever". But, if there is a known issue, and you lie to your SO about something regarding that OSF, expect retaliation. And if you can't tell the truth about something as stupid as a plane ticket, then there is something seriously wrong in your relationship... And you shouldn't have proposed in the first place. But, if you think you can work things out after alk this, more power to you. Just both of you need to stop lying and hiding stuff. (That is for the OP, not you, sokillme). And I would advise a long engagement... minimum 1 year, preferably 2-3, to be certain.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

Maricha75 said:


> Not at all. I am not suggesting either one of them dumping the other. I'm saying maybe we should shut up and he should explain why he LIED to her about the girl who got the tickets. Why would you lie about something like that, if there is nothing to hide? But, it's much easier for him to just put everything in his fiancee, because he saw texts on her old phone, from when they were in a bad place in the relationship, yes? Do I condone explicit texts with her ex? Hell no! But I also don't condone the lying in the first place. And without having the WHOLE picture, I am not quick to jump on the "dump her/him" bandwagon, either. But, what do I know? Maybe that is why he posted in the first place? He knew he would get the "dump her" advice right away, while downplaying what he did in the first place... and he would feel validated in the decision he already made.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


I was walking outside today. My daily jaunt. 

On the sidewalk I saw a coin, it was heads up. It told me to be alert. To be aware of my surroundings. Danger may be near. OP is feeling this danger.

Then I flipped the coin over. Another face replaced the tail. It was a bust of Maricha. This side told me to be aware of [not my immediate surroundings], rather to be aware of the hidden clues on the edges of the coin. 

The edges tell "The rest of the Story".

No man owns the total women. He owns the present woman, her past belongs to others.

On TAM....no man owns anything with regards to Women. They only own an explanation to women and it better be good one! !>


----------



## browser

I don't agree that you should just dump and run. Nobody's perfect few of us are completely honest about everything, and the situation happened early in your relationship and they never did actually meet.

I advise you to put the wedding on indefinite hold and just see where things go. Of course keep your eyes open, maybe even plant a VAR in her car and see if she's got anything to say to anyone in your absence about that particular incident or anything else for that matter.

There is no good reason to rush into a marriage and lots of good reasons to be patient and just see where things go.


----------



## Maricha75

Chaparral said:


> I don't know but I'm guessing the comment about her pulling a knife out of his chest if he had done this gives us a hint.>


Well, how often do we hear/read "if you cheat on me, I will kill you"?? 😛

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Maricha75 said:


> On this, I would agree. My only concern is the "dump her" mentality, as if he did nothing wrong. The guy has been on TAM for about 6 years. He KNOWS not to lie to his girlfriend about something like that because, even if there was nothing to it, it APPEARS as if there is something there. And she would retaliate. And if there is a problem between the girlfriend and the friend, what is the usual advice given? I an not one to say "absolutely no OSF, ever". But, if there is a known issue, and you lie to your SO about something regarding that OSF, expect retaliation. And if you can't tell the truth about something as stupid as a plane ticket, then there is something seriously wrong in your relationship... And you shouldn't have proposed in the first place. But, if you think you can work things out after alk this, more power to you. Just both of you need to stop lying and hiding stuff. (That is for the OP, not you, sokillme). And I would advise a long engagement... minimum 1 year, preferably 2-3, to be certain.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Yeah that was my point about him being passive aggressive and lying about stuff. No wonder he has problems.


----------



## Yeswecan

Maricha75 said:


> On this, I would agree. My only concern is the "dump her" mentality, as if he did nothing wrong. The guy has been on TAM for about 6 years. He KNOWS not to lie to his girlfriend about something like that because, even if there was nothing to it, it APPEARS as if there is something there. And she would retaliate. And if there is a problem between the girlfriend and the friend, what is the usual advice given? I an not one to say "absolutely no OSF, ever". But, if there is a known issue, and you lie to your SO about something regarding that OSF, expect retaliation. And if you can't tell the truth about something as stupid as a plane ticket, then there is something seriously wrong in your relationship... And you shouldn't have proposed in the first place. But, if you think you can work things out after alk this, more power to you. Just both of you need to stop lying and hiding stuff. (That is for the OP, not you, sokillme). And I would advise a long engagement... minimum 1 year, preferably 2-3, to be certain.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Two wrongs to not make a right. The lie, although very very bad, is a cause for a fiance to go call the X for a hook up? What else may occur that causes the fiance to dial up the X for a quick one? 

I totally agree with the lie over plane tickets yadda yadda....this is a relationship nowhere near getting a married let alone engaged.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You both lie over stupid crap. Time for you both to find someone new. You knowingly lie to cover up something. When you guys are in a bad place she goes to an ex.

I'm not going to get into the "scales of justice, whose act was worse" derails. You both do bad crap to each other for your own gratification. Why stay with someone when you can't be honest with each other? Sorry, I wouldn't entangle myself in a mess like this at all. Yes, it sucks, but it is only 3 years. She had a clue with your lie concerning a woman and she chose to stay. You now have a clue with her concerning a man and you also have a choice. Yes, some will call you a hypocrite, but oh well. Better to be a hypocrite than be in marriage where, you wonder when you piss each other off if your spouse is going outside the marriage to get what they want.

Time to go.


----------



## sokillme

browser said:


> I don't agree that you should just dump and run. Nobody's perfect few of us are completely honest about everything, and the situation happened early in your relationship and they never did actually meet.
> 
> I advise you to put the wedding on indefinite hold and just see where things go. Of course keep your eyes open, maybe even plant a VAR in her car and see if she's got anything to say to anyone in your absence about that particular incident or anything else for that matter.
> 
> There is no good reason to rush into a marriage and lots of good reasons to be patient and just see where things go.


I just think infidelity does so much damage that for me and a lot of others it is the kind of thing you just don't mess with. It truly can ruin your entire life so it is not your normal risk factor.


----------



## browser

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You both lie over stupid crap. Time for you both to find someone new. You knowingly lie to cover up something. When you guys are in a bad place she goes to an ex.


Then there's this.

The two of you are liars, and have a problem being honest with each other about relatively small things.

What happens when there are big things, and there will be, it's inevitable as the complexity of the relationship increases and the two of you don't see eye to eye on something. The lack of honesty will erode the relationship and it will ultimately fail.

Don't waste your time.

Although I'll go further than @phillybeffandswiss said and suggest that finding someone else won't necessarily fix anything, the dishonesty is within each one of you and will probably continue to follow you into every new relationship until you deal with the underlying cause. People lie out of fear and insecurity. That's something to get you started.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yeah, I didn't want to go there, but it is exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## azteca1986

uhtred said:


> If the current relationship has other issues as well, then its simple. Leave and move on. Why waste your life finding out exactly what happened.
> 
> OTOH if the current relationship is really great in other ways, then its at least worth considering finding ways to save it. Not everyone reacts the same way to infidelity. For some its a absolute relationship ender, for others it can be forgiven.


They're not yet married. This is the period where you find out if your partner is a keeper.

She didn't confess - red flag
When confronted with the phone she still didn't confess - red flag
She was texting three other guys - red flag
She's secretly in touch with her ex - red flag
She's sexting her ex - red flag
She was planning on hooking up with her ex - red flag
When stressed she turns outside her relationship - red flag

She doesn't seem to understand the gravity of what she's done. And if their "relationship is really great in other ways" he still gets to hitch himself up to a partner he knows he cannot trust completely.


----------



## Hope1964

1) Dump her. Now. She isn't marriage material.
2) Get yourself into some kind of therapy - or even just READ A BOOK - and figure out what's wrong with YOU. To lie about something like that, completely unnecessarily, is a HUGE problem, dude. Figure it out before you get into another relationship or you're doomed to failure.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

azteca1986 said:


> They're not yet married. This is the period where you find out if your partner is a keeper.
> 
> She didn't confess - red flag
> When confronted with the phone she still didn't confess - red flag
> She was texting three other guys - red flag
> She's secretly in touch with her ex - red flag
> She's sexting her ex - red flag
> She was planning on hooking up with her ex - red flag
> When stressed she turns outside her relationship - red flag
> 
> She doesn't seem to understand the gravity of what she's done. And if their "relationship is really great in other ways" he still gets to hitch himself up to a partner he knows he cannot trust completely.


I agree.

Still, lies open doors to areas you do not want to go. So, I see why many are waiting to see what he says about SuperBowl woman. Nope, it doesn't absolve the ex and other guys at all, but it is why I say they both should move on.


----------



## 225985

sokillme said:


> He is laughing at how bad the advice is. Not OP.




The advice wasn't for him.


----------



## 225985

sokillme said:


> I just think infidelity does so much damage that for me and a lot of others it is the kind of thing you just don't mess with. It truly can ruin your entire life so it is not your normal risk factor.




Yes, and there are also a lot of others here in the fraternity of brothers that stayed with the wife. 

It is for OP to decide.

It's the same in every thread. The lynch mob comes out. Same members every time. Burn the witch. Laugh at any other posts that don't tow the party line.

Weeds don't grow on a well maintained lawn.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

blueinbr said:


> Yes, and there are also a lot of others here in the fraternity of brothers that stayed with the wife.
> 
> It is for OP to decide.


They are recently engaged, this isn't a marriage. This is what you learn before you carry through with a marriage. So, this is the time to make sure he doesn't join the infidelity brotherhood which contains many categories including Divorce and Reconciliation. They can revisit getting married later, when they both get themselves fixed or not.


----------



## browser

blueinbr said:


> The advice wasn't for him.


Yeah @GusPolinski was LOLing at your supposedly poor advise while jumping to an irrational conclusion that she is currently sexting with other men and the ex boyfriend when nothing was stated to even remotely support that conclusion.


----------



## EHuntIMF

lifeistooshort said:


> Why did you feel the need to lie about getting tickets?
> 
> I think that question needs to be answered.


Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.


----------



## EHuntIMF

Maricha75 said:


> I am wondering the same thing. The part about the female friend having been the one who actually got the tickets makes me wonder if he lied because his fiancee doesn't like the female friend... Funny how no one else seems to wonder about that... Only that she was in contact with an ex, and likely would have hooked up with him. Then again, maybe not. Maybe his staying there that night actually DID bring her to her senses. We don't know. And certainly those clamoring for him to just dump her don't know, either.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Actually she doesn't know my friend. To be honest the only reason my friend got involved was that we were getting the tickets the friday before the Superbowl and everything was sky high. I sent a mass email out to a group of friends to see if they had any discounts or cheaper options and she responded. 

Simple transaction- She gave me the rate, my cousin called her and gave her the card number, and she sent both of us the itinerary. I actually hadn't spoken to her since I started dating my fiance just to keep peace.

I owned up to it and showed her the emails


----------



## GusPolinski

browser said:


> Yeah @GusPolinski was LOLing at your supposedly poor advise while jumping to an irrational conclusion that she is currently sexting with other men and the ex boyfriend when nothing was stated to even remotely support that conclusion.


The LOL was indeed for what I'd consider poor advice.

As for the rest of it, all he has to do is to look at her current phone. But if nothing's there, what's to say she hasn't deleted it? She already knows he's looking.

And that, at last, is my point.

How does he trust what she says from here on out?

And what's the point in even trying? They're not married.


----------



## 225985

EHuntIMF said:


> Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.




Everything else aside, why would you want to marry someone that gets violently jealous and so you have to hide things from her?

For most, that would filter out a potential spouse. 

Unless you want to lose your pecker, fix your picker.


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## straightshooter

OP,

Lying is dumb but sorry, lying about a plane ticket is a bit different than looking to bang an old boyfriend had you not fallen asleep. And the crap about you being in a bad place. ?? I guarantee you if you marry her, sometime in your marriage things will not be going great. And then what's her move??

Like you've been told, check all the cell phone bills and tell him she can take a poly to verify the night you fell asleep was not the only time they planned or did a hook up. Her reaction to your request will probably tell you all you need to know. She might be a different person but she can't erase history. And the machine could give a **** less about her being a different person. Its yes/no and truth or lie.

Your call. Either you verify or go blind trust. None of us can decide that for you.


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## Maricha75

EHuntIMF said:


> Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.






EHuntIMF said:


> Actually she doesn't know my friend. To be honest the only reason my friend got involved was that we were getting the tickets the friday before the Superbowl and everything was sky high. I sent a mass email out to a group of friends to see if they had any discounts or cheaper options and she responded.
> 
> Simple transaction- She gave me the rate, my cousin called her and gave her the card number, and she sent both of us the itinerary. I actually hadn't spoken to her since I started dating my fiance just to keep peace.
> 
> I owned up to it and showed her the emails


So, you knew, or at least suspected, that a female friend *would* be a problem, and lied. Ok, that should have been a big red flag on your relationship at THAT point... that she is so jealous that you even having someone you consider to be a friend of the opposite sex would cause friction. But that is one thing.

You owned up to what you did. When did you tell her the truth, though? The way it was initially presented, it seemed she thought one thing, then it came out that it was something else. You get that, right? How long after did you come clean about it? 

Honestly, regardless of how it all played out, you two are definitely not ready to marry. I'm not saying you could never marry her, but she has a lot to deal with, as you stated that the ex has some kind of hold over her. You knew that for how lobg, though? That should have told you, too, that she really isn't ready to marry... at least, not you, anyway. 

IF you choose to stay in this relationship, you definitely need to do a LOT of talking about boundaries. You should see a counselor to help with this, too. Again, this is IF you choose to stay together. If not, I think you both could still benefit from counseling on your own. 

If you choose to split, so be it. Just learn from this, and don't lie to the next one. No matter how jealous you think she may get. Telling the truth will SHOW you her true colors... which is what you want!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## ButtPunch

Run for the hills bro. There is no better indicator of future behavior than past behavior. 

Thank the good lord you aren't married with kids.

Count your blessings. 

Don't date someone you have to lie to for her to be happy.


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## lifeistooshort

EHuntIMF said:


> Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.


Are there other female friends she's not comfortable with?


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## Andy1001

So your girlfriend is violently jealous and you need to lie to her about even emailing any females to keep the peace.
She tries to **** other guys when she feels she is not getting enough attention.
You seem genuinely scared of her when she loses her temper.
How do you know she didn't call her ex the next night after you slept on the couch and ****ed his brains out.
How do you know she still isn't.
What exactly are you getting out of this relationship.


----------



## browser

EHuntIMF said:


> Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.


You lied to your fiancee, the woman you are about to commit to spending the rest of your life with, because you didn't want to "hear her mouth" and because she's the "jealous and possibly violent type". 

Well alrighty then. I think it's time to start looking at photographers, and discussing the seating at your upcoming wedding.


----------



## Maricha75

browser said:


> You lied to your fiancee, the woman you are about to commit to spending the rest of your life with, because you didn't want to "hear her mouth" and because she's the "jealous and possibly violent type".
> 
> Well alrighty then. I think it's time to start looking at photographers, and discussing the seating at your upcoming wedding.


My hero.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## 225985

lifeistooshort said:


> Are there other female friends she's not comfortable with?




And does she have reason to be comfortable with the others?

In other words, have you given her reason to be jealous?


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## lifeistooshort

blueinbr said:


> And does she have reason to be comfortable with the others?
> 
> In other words, have you given her reason to be jealous?


I tend to dislike the term "jealous" because it's often thrown around to shut down an appropriate conversation about inappropriate boundaries.

There can be times when one is just off the rails controlling, but most of the time it's about boundaries.

Spouse 1: Why are you having dinner alone with an opposite sex "friend"?

Spouse 2: you're just jealous.

Now it can't be discussed.


----------



## lifeistooshort

browser said:


> You lied to your fiancee, the woman you are about to commit to spending the rest of your life with, because you didn't want to "hear her mouth" and because she's the "jealous and possibly violent type".
> 
> Well alrighty then. I think it's time to start looking at photographers, and discussing the seating at your upcoming wedding.


In know, right?

What a nasty, disrespect way to talk about one's partner.


----------



## EHuntIMF

lifeistooshort said:


> In know, right?
> 
> What a nasty, disrespect way to talk about one's partner.


I was wrong and I admit it. The lie about the plane ticket was last year. I told her immediately after we got the plane tickets because I felt bad and knew I was wrong. I called her and told her everything about the transaction, showed her the emails and even gave her the name and number of my friend that helped with the purchasing. Fiancee said, "she appreciated me telling her the truth without having to find out later, but still is hurt I lied to her by leaving out the detail of the female friend." 

As I stated before we both went through a lot in the beginning of our relationship with stuff outside of us, but overall it was good. To answer another question: I don't know of anybody else (female) friend that she is jealous because I don't hang out with or talk to any women unless they are related or through necessity at work.


----------



## browser

EHuntIMF said:


> As I stated before we both went through a lot in the beginning of our relationship with stuff outside of us, but overall it was good.


You went through a lot of lying and deception on both parts, in 2015 and in 2016 you were in couples counseling. How did that work out by the way? Did the therapist say "Ok we're all good here you can discontinue therapy and go live happy lives together" or did the two of you simply stop going because you either felt it wasn't productive or the copays were too expensive?

Either way, all this stuff went down as recently as less than 1 year ago. That's not in the past, that's like yesterday.


----------



## EHuntIMF

blueinbr said:


> And does she have reason to be comfortable with the others?
> 
> In other words, have you given her reason to be jealous?


I have not given her a reason to be jealous to the best of my knowledge. I don't talk to any women outside of work unless I am related, and at work is purely professional. I don't communicate with any female friends unless my Fiancee had known and met them, and any conversation I did had was in my fiancee's presence and on speaker phone. I try to avoid situations that even have a look of anything going on to make sure everything is on the up and up.

The plan ticket incident was no excuse for lying and I immediately confessed and showed everything related to it. Again, I am not making excuses for what I had done.


----------



## EHuntIMF

browser said:


> You went through a lot of lying and deception on both parts, in 2015 and in 2016 you were in couples counseling. How did that work out by the way? Did the therapist say "Ok we're all good here you can discontinue therapy and go live happy lives together" or did the two of you simply stop going because you either felt it wasn't productive or the copays were too expensive?
> 
> Either way, all this stuff went down as recently as less than 1 year ago. That's not in the past, that's like yesterday.


We are still in counseling individually and as a couple only about once a month. We actually went to about 2 other therapist before we settled with our current one. I am finishing up school (full time) and working so finding a consistent time slot for couple's counseling has been a challenge. I go to individual sessions in the morning before work, she goes in the evening, while I am at school. We are still going because we recognize that we still need help, however, my issue is that she didn't come forth with this information...I had to find that out on my own.


----------



## Sparta

Why everybody so fixated on the tickets **** the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.


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## GusPolinski

Couples counseling and you're not even married?

Geez.


----------



## EHuntIMF

Sparta said:


> Why everybody so fixated on the tickets **** the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.


I am trying to be understanding where everyone is coming from is regards to the plane tickets....again I confessed immediately and showed everything to her. 

I will not minimize the lying...it was wrong.


----------



## browser

GusPolinski said:


> Couples counseling and you're not even married?
> 
> Geez.


Yes, that's a real concern. People don't always get along and it's not a bad thing to recognize there are problems and therapy might help find a solution,and maybe the relationship is worth trying to salvage but at some point you really gotta face the hard truth that it just might not be fixable and there are just too many red flags and strikes that the two parties at the very least might want to reconsider jumping into a lifelong commitment. 

Especially given this recent bit of news, there is no logic and common sense involved in planning a wedding. These two aren't even remotely close to being able to have a reasonable shot at going the distance.


----------



## Maricha75

Sparta said:


> Why everybody so fixated on the tickets **** the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.


Idiots? I would refrain from calling people names on here (including a moderator, btw). That can get you banned.

No, we are not fixated on the lying like it's ok for her to cheat. On the contrary, it gives an idea on the dynamic. It tells where his mind was, and is, and how it relates to her. This is, of course, in lieu of the lynch mob mentality. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## browser

Sparta said:


> Why everybody so fixated on the tickets **** the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.


You sound upset. 

Someone call the wambulance!


----------



## Hope1964

Maricha75 said:


> Sparta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why everybody so fixated on the tickets f.uck the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> Idiots? I would refrain from calling people names on here (including a moderator, btw). That can get you banned.
> 
> No, we are not fixated on the lying like it's ok for her to cheat. On the contrary, it gives an idea on the dynamic. It tells where his mind was, and is, and how it relates to her. This is, of course, in lieu of the lynch mob mentality.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Not to mention using the f word like that is a no no now.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Take a step back and keep working on your own growth... speeding it up will only give you grief as you run past the things you need to pay attention to in the present.

Premarital counseling provides you wonderful awareness... in effect you are getting a shotgun approach to a version of it here. 

Not every pellet hits... it's not designed to, but listen to the pellets that sting, those are the ones you need to focus on and heal remembering that scars are there to show that you survived what you did wrong in the past and to not do what injured yourself and others in the present, nor the future.

In the end, if you cannot trust another, you can trust nothing... and no marriage survives a lack of trust.

Not one...


----------



## ButtPunch

I don't care about the tickets. I am certain if a female poster said what you did and came back with 
I was scared of him she would have gotten a completely different reaction. 

THIS IS WHY IT IS CALLED DATING AND NOT MARRIAGE.

You do not need to work thru this and quite frankly there is no bigger red flag than what you
have already gotten. You are not even married yet. 

RUN FORREST RUN


PS....and her reaction to it all couldn't have been any worse.

When someone shows you who they are, be smart and believe them.


----------



## dubsey

Having a relationship shouldn't be this difficult. Do both of you a favor and walk away, or you both need to grow up. As it stands, you both can do better.


----------



## Grapes

EHuntIMF said:


> I have not given her a reason to be jealous to the best of my knowledge. I don't talk to any women outside of work unless I am related, and at work is purely professional. I don't communicate with any female friends unless my Fiancee had known and met them, and any conversation I did had was in my fiancee's presence and on speaker phone. I try to avoid situations that even have a look of anything going on to make sure everything is on the up and up.
> 
> The plan ticket incident was no excuse for lying and I immediately confessed and showed everything related to it. Again, I am not making excuses for what I had done.


reading this along with the violent jealous comment is very interesting. 

I could be wrong here but it seems/sounds/reads like you are tip toeing around life just to keep peace with your F. It seems like every interaction you have you calculate and execute in such a way as to not piss off your F.

Are you constantly on egg shells with everything you do?

Of course lying is BS, and lying about tickets is straight up dumb. Doing this you actually enable her behavior. You allow her to treat you with jealously... then you alter your life to appease her.

whens it stop?


----------



## Sparta

I apologize I don't mean you guys are idiots you're good people and I know this. I was getting frustrated reading his story. I just spent an hour whatever on the phone with Verizon over my bill or whatever so I guess I took it out on you guys I apologize...


----------



## browser

Sparta said:


> I apologize I don't mean you guys are idiots you're good people and I know this. I was getting frustrated reading his story. I just spent an hour whatever on the phone with Verizon over my bill or whatever so I guess I took it out on you guys I apologize...


I have found it in my heart to forgive you.

Upon reading your post containing the word "idiots" and the word filter bypass, the moderators may not be so bighearted about letting you go for not one but two TOS violations in the same post. 

Consider making rapid and effective use of the edit function.


----------



## sokillme

blueinbr said:


> Yes, and there are also a lot of others here in the fraternity of brothers that stayed with the wife.
> 
> It is for OP to decide.
> 
> It's the same in every thread. The lynch mob comes out. Same members every time. Burn the witch. Laugh at any other posts that don't tow the party line.
> 
> Weeds don't grow on a well maintained lawn.


Somehow you equate people saying don't stay with a cheater to a lynch mob. Sounds very codependent in my book. People are allowed to have boundaries doesn't make them big bad meanies.


----------



## ButtPunch

Dang EMF

This isn't your first rodeo. Dump her and figure out what's wrong
with your picker.


----------



## WorkingWife

EHuntIMF said:


> Basically I lied because I didn't want to hear her mouth about another woman getting me a discount on plane tickets for superbowl weekend. Fiance' always came off as the jealous (possible violent type) so I took a chance and lied. I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong and owned up to it.


If she is unreasonably jealous, and you feel she could be violent, I don't think you need to catch her cheating to know she's not the best choice in life mates. 

Are you doing things to make her jealous? For example, do you have feelings for this girl who got you the discount that she picked up on? I personally would not be jealous of a female friend scoring my fiance a discount on tickets unless she was 1) going to the game with him, or 2) I sensed he had a little thing for her, or 3) I sensed she had a thing for him. But if I found out my BF lied about her role in things, that would make me suddenly very suspicious and jealous. It would not make me hook up with someone else, of course, or give me license to lie to my BF. However, it definitely would tell me how UNserious my BF was about our relationship, and if we hadn't explicitly committed to being exclusive at that time, I would feel I had every right to see other guys. After all, she's marrying age and if she wants to find a husband, and she feels jealous and insecure with the guy she's currently seeing, to whom she's NOT yet engaged, and he's lying to her about stupid things, she would be wise to shop around.


----------



## GusPolinski

blueinbr said:


> Yes, and there are also a lot of others here in the fraternity of brothers that stayed with the wife.


Wife.

Not girlfriend.

Not fiancé.

_Wife._

You fail the audition, you don't (or shouldn't) get the job.



blueinbr said:


> It is for OP to decide.


Well sure.



blueinbr said:


> It's the same in every thread. The lynch mob comes out. Same members every time. Burn the witch.


Geez.

Dumping != Burning



blueinbr said:


> Laugh at any other posts that don't tow the party line.


Some of them _are_ pretty funny.



blueinbr said:


> Weeds don't grow on a well maintained lawn.


A well-kept lawn won't keep a hoe at bay.

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## WorkingWife

EHuntIMF said:


> I am trying to be understanding where everyone is coming from is regards to the plane tickets....again I confessed immediately and showed everything to her.
> 
> I will not minimize the lying...it was wrong.


I can't explain anyone else's obsession, but for me it's just an "interesting detail" that may provide some insight into the relationship. It's not that your lie in any way outweighed her cheating.

People lie for different reasons. One reason is to hide a wrong so they can get away with it. Another is to avoid upsetting the other person. It sounds like you lied not because you felt it was wrong, but because your gut told you she would be upset regardless. That raises interesting questions:

1. Are you unwittingly behaving in a manner to make her jealous. (As opposed to she's just a jealous/insecure person.)
2. Do you want to be in a relationship where you are afraid to be honest about innocent things for fear of her reaction?

And I haven't read this entire thread yet but also what was the status of your relationship when she sent the texts. It sounds like you were not engaged, but obviously considered yourselves GF/BF. People date to find the right person, then they get engaged, then they get married. Before you are engaged, obviously it's going to hurt your GF/BF's feelings if you see someone else, but is that really cheating? I think the fact that we have sex so fast in our culture, and usually assume sexual fidelity, kind of screws up the "courting" period when a person can actually shop around to find the best fit in mates.


----------



## Thor

Different members here are prickly about different things.


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> Why did you feel the need to lie about getting tickets?
> 
> I think that question needs to be answered.


Yeah...because getting lied to exonerates her from all responsibility.


----------



## browser

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah...because getting lied to exonerates her from all responsibility.


That is not what is being suggested or stated.


----------



## bandit.45

OP, ditch this gal. You shouldn't lie, but I totally understand what it's like to be with an entitled, controlling harpy like her. Been there done that. 

She's a cheater and a gas lighter. Those reasons alone are enough to tell you that the two of you are a disaster waiting to happen. Walk away and never look back. 

And quit lying about stupid ****!


----------



## farsidejunky

Speaking as a moderator:

A member has earned an infraction due to a filter bypass from a post on this thread. 

Clean it up, folks.


----------



## Maricha75

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah...because getting lied to exonerates her from all responsibility.


Oh, please, bandit. That isn't even close to what any of us were suggesting. We asked to see the circumstances behind the lying. Lying is bad, regardless, but if he had lied because there were feelings, either way, between him and his friend, that would absolutely give her cause to be pissed off. As it turns put, that is not the case and *gasp* those of us who asked are not harping on that part. Unfortunately, we get quoted in later parts of the thread because latecomers quote earlier posts before reading how it has gone. Happens all the time. 

It does not exonerate any intention to cheat. Not in the slightest. And it's actually insulting that you believe we think that. The question was relevant. He stated that he "didn't want to hear her mouth". Yet, he also claims he had never given her any reason to be jealous... And doesn't have any OSF, in general, except this one. The tickets, themselves, are insignificant. The lying, however, is a different story. That whole scenario shows that he really is not in the frame of mind to get married again. Her texts also show she is not ready, either. It doesn't exonerate her, though. And none of us has even hinted that it does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## lucy999

Neither of you are ready for marriage. You both lied. Im not saying yours equals hers: your lie pales in comparison but it's still a lie.


----------



## bandit.45

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, please, bandit. That isn't even close to what any of us were suggesting. We asked to see the circumstances behind the lying. Lying is bad, regardless, but if he had lied because there were feelings, either way, between him and his friend, that would absolutely give her cause to be pissed off. As it turns put, that is not the case and *gasp* those of us who asked are not harping on that part. Unfortunately, we get quoted in later parts of the thread because latecomers quote earlier posts before reading how it has gone. Happens all the time.
> 
> It does not exonerate any intention to cheat. Not in the slightest. And it's actually insulting that you believe we think that. The question was relevant. He stated that he "didn't want to hear her mouth". Yet, he also claims he had never given her any reason to be jealous... And doesn't have any OSF, in general, except this one. The tickets, themselves, are insignificant. The lying, however, is a different story. That whole scenario shows that he really is not in the frame of mind to get married again. Her texts also show she is not ready, either. It doesn't exonerate her, though. And none of us has even hinted that it does.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


He needs to quit his lying. She needs to quit her duplicity and sneaking around like a rat....

They both need to grow up and break up. Neither of them is mature enough for marriage.


----------



## browser

lucy999 said:


> Neither of you are ready for marriage. You both lied. Im not saying yours equals hers: your lie pales in comparison but it's still a lie.


People who lie to their relationship partners shouldn't get married?

If that was the case and everyone did that, just about every catering hall would be out of business by now.


----------



## lucy999

browser said:


> People who lie to their relationship partners shouldn't get married?


Nope.


----------



## browser

Who knew?


----------



## lucy999

browser said:


> Who knew?


??? You talking to me?


----------



## browser

I was talking to you when I wrote that but I'm not talking to you right now.


----------



## TX-SC

Not all lies are created equally. If he lied because he knew it would needlessly escalate on her part, then so be it. 

Can we concentrate on the fact that she wanted to screw her ex and got MAD that her BF fell asleep on the couch "like a guard dog"? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Sparta said:


> Why everybody so fixated on the tickets **** the tickets what about the text messages and all that stuff you haven't said one word about that because these idiots are all fixated on you lying like it's OK for her to cheat.


Everyone is not. I and a few others are talking about the lies from both parties. They are in separate counseling, he admits they had trouble beforehand and they both lie about the opposite sex with excuses.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah...because getting lied to exonerates her from all responsibility.


Of course.....I forgot that any attempt to address anything a betrayed might have done to damage the relationship equates to exonerating the cheater of all responsibility.

They should all be canonized.

I'll try to remember that :banghead:


----------



## lovelygirl

So, everytime she feels lonely she'll turn to her ex?
Everytime she wants attention she'll turn to her ex?
Everytime you're busy she'll turn to her ex?
Everytime you're simply not in the mood to be with her, she'll turn to her ex?

She's a spoiled, attention-seeker and life is WAY TOO LONG and marriage WAY TOO COMPLICATED to be dealing with such woman. There will be times in your marriage when I'd rather you not be with her or simply spend some time alone.



What's her solution??





...


-----




Yep..you guessed it right.



She'll turn to her ex.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

GusPolinski said:


> Wife.
> 
> Not girlfriend.
> 
> Not fiancé.
> 
> _Wife._
> 
> You fail the audition, you don't (or shouldn't) get the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A well-kept lawn won't keep a hoe at bay.*
> 
> :lol: :rofl:


 But the constant grass stains on her knees makes for a big red flag.


----------



## SunCMars

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course.....I forgot that any attempt to address anything a betrayed might have done to damage the relationship equates to exonerating the cheater of all responsibility.
> 
> *They should all be canonized.
> *
> I'll try to remember that :banghead:


Canonized? Nnoooo-

This is a bush league answer.

And I do agree, all sides of an argument must be offered up.

But yours is an unfair comparison. Made, in my opinion to jerk back on the leashes of the gnarling dogs here. Male mutts, in "participle".

Some men on TAM, know the glint of your steel. And some here believe you WOULD Canonize the OP. 

You would fire him out of a cannon if his White Buck shoes had dirty toes.

This case? An unfair comparison, as written by OP. 

Do you remember when we first met ~about one year ago? I think I had made about ten posts....and you put me in your cross-hairs ahead of your cross face.

Some men never learn.


----------



## MattMatt

lifeistooshort said:


> Are there other female friends she's not comfortable with?


Perhaps she is uncomfortable with female friends, relatives, whatever because she knows her own 'problems' with the male friends in her life?

Are we talking about this type of jealousy?


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course.....I forgot that any attempt to address anything a betrayed might have done to damage the relationship equates to exonerating the cheater of all responsibility.
> 
> They should all be canonized.
> 
> I'll try to remember that :banghead:


Can I offer you an aspirin for that sore forehead?


----------



## 225985

browser said:


> Yeah @GusPolinski was LOLing at your supposedly poor advise while jumping to an irrational conclusion that she is currently sexting with other men and the ex boyfriend when nothing was stated to even remotely support that conclusion.




That's my point. 

What's unfortunate here is that a member cannot post differing advice to the OP without the frat boys jumping in and laughing and criticizing.

****, my question to OP was how is the rest of the relationship other that than this? And that gets attacked? WTF!

Just ask the admin to set up a macro so that some of you automatically type "Dump her" in any thread opened in this forum.


----------



## azteca1986

blueinbr said:


> That's my point.
> 
> What's unfortunate here is that a member cannot post differing advice to the OP without the frat boys jumping in and laughing and criticizing.
> 
> ****, my question to OP was how is the rest of the relationship other that than this? And that gets attacked? WTF!


Are you still whining on about this?


blueinbr said:


> This is what you should be focused on, rather than the dozen guys that say dump her.


You were the one encouraging OP to disregard other posters advice because it differed from your own.


----------



## lifeistooshort

MattMatt said:


> Perhaps she is uncomfortable with female friends, relatives, whatever because she knows her own 'problems' with the male friends in her life?
> 
> Are we talking about this type of jealousy?


Maybe. It's just not a good idea to assume that, which is why I asked. Could be lots of things ranging from her projecting to him having questionable boundaries.

He has since clarified this. 

I was trying to to get an idea of the dynamic between the two of them because I think better advice can be given that way, even if it's ultimately to help OP improve for his next relationship.

People who have no reason to lie typically don't lie. He's here and she isn't so I asked him.


----------



## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> Couples counseling and you're not even married?
> 
> Geez.


At one time vicars, parsons and priests used to insist on what was, in effect, couple's counselling before a couple got spliced.

But nowadays? Everyone wants it all and they wants it all *now*.


----------



## 225985

azteca1986 said:


> Are you still whining on about this?
> 
> .



Nah, I just read these for the entertainment. I like to hear what the basement dwellers post. 

Dump her. 

Check the phone. 

Get a VAR. 

If at first you don't succeed, don't help anyone else succeed.


----------



## MattMatt

Sparta said:


> I apologize I don't mean you guys are idiots you're good people and I know this. I was getting frustrated reading his story. I just spent an hour whatever on the phone with Verizon over my bill or whatever so I guess I took it out on you guys I apologize...


Even Spartans have trouble with their phone bills? 








[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]


----------



## Lostinthought61

As i see it EH, yeah you did a stupid thing, fessed up and let's move on to the situation at hand....as you noted this was on her old phone, so the question on the table still remains did she continue her relationship with him on the new phone, and is there any evidence on the new phone to suggest that it is still going on or not going on...and BTW everyone he confessed to her about the plane ticket I don't hear hear confess to him about her indiscretion nor that if hadn't been there they would have had sex....that alone warrants moving on EH....if she is thinking about an old flame now before you get married, can you imagine thinking about someone else when you get settled into a content marriage 10 years down the road....but heck its your life, if you feel this is a solid relationship then go ahead, but plane tickets aside that is not what your hearing on here.


----------



## Blondilocks

Just a little technical question - how did that phone hold a charge for 1 year and 4 months? Or was the charger right there and you plugged it in and stood there and read? She didn't notice you were standing there reading through her old phone?


----------



## EHuntIMF

Blondilocks said:


> Just a little technical question - how did that phone hold a charge for 1 year and 4 months? Or was the charger right there and you plugged it in and stood there and read? She didn't notice you were standing there reading through her old phone?


Found the old phone when I was helping her move. Used my charger to charge the phone and look. found the text messages, confronted her. She cried, asked me forgiveness, she talked some more....I walked out.

Hadn't talked to her since Monday night, she hasn't tried to call or contact me.

Should I continue to go dark?

To address some other questions or comments:

We did couple's counseling now to address issues that both of us have blindspots in. We were trying to be pro active and get help before we got married and things became complicated. I do love her, but my past experience and pride is having me to lean toward leaving.

We have a pretty good relationship, but she had some abuse from her past that I wasn't aware of at first, which caused some major issues. Combined with my past hurt of my previous marriage and both of us going through nearly 10 deaths in a year was hard. We supported each other during that beginning time of the relationship and wanted to love and support each other throughout.


----------



## ABHale

lifeistooshort said:


> Why did you feel the need to lie about getting tickets?
> 
> I think that question needs to be answered.


You are actually comparing lying about tickets with her trying to hook up with her ex.

Have you asked for and looked at her new phone. 

So when she feels she needs attention in the future it will be ok for her to hook up with the ex?

Piss poor excuse.


----------



## EHuntIMF

ABHale said:


> You are actually comparing lying about tickets with her trying to hook up with her ex.
> 
> Have you asked for and looked at her new phone.
> 
> So when she feels she needs attention in the future it will be ok for her to hook up with the ex?
> 
> Piss poor excuse.


I was such in shock, that I actually left the apartment and did some driving to calm down. The thought hit me to ask for the new phone about 10 minutes into the drive and then realized that its probably wiped clean by now. smh I resigned myself that I may not have the answers because she probably erased them, and went further underground if she is still in contact.

I figured that it would take about a solid year for anything else to come up on the phone, and I would have to play dumb for that year in order for her to relax enough to make a mistake.

I don't think I can do it.

I have to go into my therapy appointment. Will probably be on tomorrow.....starting to trigger reading the comments here


----------



## Thor

EHuntIMF said:


> I was such in shock, that I actually left the apartment and did some driving to calm down. The thought hit me to ask for the new phone about 10 minutes into the drive and then realized that its probably wiped clean by now. smh I resigned myself that I may not have the answers because she probably erased them, and went further underground if she is still in contact.


Yeah, classic mistake many of us made of opening our mouths prematurely. That's how I lost secret access to the emails which would have likely proven one way or another whether my wife had had an affair a year or two earlier. Lots of people here have made such mistakes, so don't kick yourself too hard for confronting her.


----------



## browser

EHuntIMF said:


> Found the old phone when I was helping her move. Used my charger to charge the phone and look. found the text messages, confronted her. She cried, asked me forgiveness, she talked some more....I walked out.
> 
> Hadn't talked to her since Monday night, she hasn't tried to call or contact me.
> 
> Should I continue to go dark?


At this point I'm thinking you should not only go dark you should permanently disconnect the electricity.


----------



## bandit.45

EHuntIMF said:


> Found the old phone when I was helping her move. Used my charger to charge the phone and look. found the text messages, confronted her. She cried, asked me forgiveness, she talked some more....I walked out.
> 
> Hadn't talked to her since Monday night, she hasn't tried to call or contact me.
> 
> That is very unusual. Not a good sign. It could mean that she has resigned herself to breaking up with you.
> 
> Should I continue to go dark?
> 
> Yes. Do not contact her or chase her. Let her chase you. If she does not, you have your answer.
> 
> 
> To address some other questions or comments:
> 
> We did couple's counseling now to address issues that both of us have blindspots in. We were trying to be pro active and get help before we got married and things became complicated. I do love her, but my past experience and pride is having me to lean toward leaving.
> 
> This is not pride. It is called "self respect". You value yourself enough not to let another person de-value you. Do not accept the pride label. She is the one too proud to admit she screwed up.
> 
> 
> We have a pretty good relationship, but she had some abuse from her past that I wasn't aware of at first, which caused some major issues.
> 
> Not an excuse. Sorry but her past abuse and her cheating are entirely separate items.
> 
> Combined with my past hurt of my previous marriage and both of us going through nearly 10 deaths in a year was hard. We supported each other during that beginning time of the relationship and wanted to love and support each other throughout.
> 
> None of those things mean squat. She cheated because she had the opportunity and because she chose to. It had nothing to do with the relationship. Stop trying to accept blame for her poor choices.


----------



## browser

Agree with all of the above except that "cheating has nothing to do with the relationship".

Sometimes, it's completely unrelated. More often there are problems that led to the cheating. I know this is when people chime in and say "cheating is never the betrayed partner's fault!"

I tend to disagree with that statement. Not always, but often enough.


----------



## drifter777

EHuntIMF said:


> Found the old phone when I was helping her move. Used my charger to charge the phone and look. found the text messages, confronted her. She cried, asked me forgiveness, she talked some more....I walked out.
> 
> Hadn't talked to her since Monday night, she hasn't tried to call or contact me.
> 
> Should I continue to go dark?


Yes - stay No Contact with her until you are able to detach your emotional reaction from your decision as to staying engaged. To my way of thinking the engagement period is like a dress rehearsal for marriage. During this time you both have a "get out of jail free" card you can play at any time for any reason. Catching her cheating is a great reason to play that card. I mean, why marry a woman you KNOW has cheated on you?


----------



## naiveonedave

browser said:


> Agree with all of the above except that "cheating has nothing to do with the relationship".
> 
> Sometimes, it's completely unrelated. More often there are problems that led to the cheating. I know this is when people chime in and say "cheating is never the betrayed partner's fault!"
> 
> I tend to disagree with that statement. Not always, but often enough.


Cheating has nothing to do with the relationship. If you want out, file D, separate, dump you BF/GF. Cheating = low moral character.

read enough stories on here to see that many/most of the cheaters are ok or better in their relationship with their BS...


----------



## snerg

browser said:


> . More often there are problems that led to the cheating.


I absolutely agree:

1) Poor choices
2) Poor boundaries
3) Selfishness
4) loss of self integrity
5) general entitlement issues

There many problems with the cheater that lead to the act!


----------



## Andy1001

EHuntIMF said:


> Found the old phone when I was helping her move. Used my charger to charge the phone and look. found the text messages, confronted her. She cried, asked me forgiveness, she talked some more....I walked out.
> 
> Hadn't talked to her since Monday night, she hasn't tried to call or contact me.
> 
> Should I continue to go dark?
> 
> To address some other questions or comments:
> 
> We did couple's counseling now to address issues that both of us have blindspots in. We were trying to be pro active and get help before we got married and things became complicated. I do love her, but my past experience and pride is having me to lean toward leaving.
> 
> We have a pretty good relationship, but she had some abuse from her past that I wasn't aware of at first, which caused some major issues. Combined with my past hurt of my previous marriage and both of us going through nearly 10 deaths in a year was hard. We supported each other during that beginning time of the relationship and wanted to love and support each other throughout.


If she hasn't called or messaged you since Monday guess who is comforting her.She know you finally wised up to her and has threw in the towel.Do yourself a favour and never contact her again,a women like this Just screws you up for every other woman you may meet.


----------



## GusPolinski

Andy1001 said:


> *If she hasn't called or messaged you since Monday guess who is comforting her.*She know you finally wised up to her and has threw in the towel.Do yourself a favour and never contact her again,a women like this Just screws you up for every other woman you may meet.


Eggs Zachary.


----------



## browser

naiveonedave said:


> Cheating has nothing to do with the relationship. If you want out, file D, separate, dump you BF/GF. Cheating = low moral character.


You speak way too generally to be even remotely accurate. Then you try to support your incorrect generalization with an unrelated statement "If you want out then leave" as if that somehow correlates with the point you're trying to make. Then you add that all cheaters have low moral character which is of course even more general and even more wrong than your first generalization. 



naiveonedave said:


> read enough stories on here to see that many/most of the cheaters are ok or better in their relationship with their BS...


Then you finish off with "many or most" cheaters are ok or better in their relationship which of course is not "all" which totally undermines your statements above it because it says you accept that there are at least "some" who are in bad relationships when they cheat.


----------



## *Deidre*

Run!! (Seriously, don't marry her. She's proven that she's a liar, and you'll just end up marrying...a liar)


----------



## snerg

browser said:


> You speak way too generally to be even remotely accurate. Then you add that all cheaters have low moral character which is of course even more general and even more wrong than your first generalization.
> .



Chris Rock had a funny line in one of his comedy acts:

There's a reason to kick an old man down a flight of stairs. *JUST DON'T DO IT*!

You can post here a million different reasons to cheat. You can post novels on why a cheater doesn't have low moral character. You can white knight that all cheaters aren't bad people doing really bad things- they just made mistakes.

Bottom line for cheating, quoting Chris Rock - *JUST DON'T DO IT*.


----------



## Maricha75

Andy1001 said:


> If she hasn't called or messaged you since Monday guess who is comforting her.She know you finally wised up to her and has threw in the towel.Do yourself a favour and never contact her again,a women like this Just screws you up for every other woman you may meet.


... And then he finds out from someone else that hecwas advised by a friend or family member to give him space and let him decide if he wants to call/text/meet to talk. Meanwhile, she is sitting at home, upset that she damn near (or probably did) screwed things up because of something said over a year ago, and long forgotten until a couple days ago. 

But, it's easier to assume the worst, right? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

Maricha75 said:


> ... And then he finds out from someone else that hecwas advised by a friend or family member to give him space and let him decide if he wants to call/text/meet to talk. Meanwhile, she is sitting at home, upset that she damn near (or probably did) screwed things up because of something said over a year ago, and long forgotten until a couple days ago.
> 
> But, it's easier to assume the worst, right?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Well maybe before she so generously and selflessly gave him the space that he didn't ask for she could have gave an explanation as to why she was planning on sleeping with an ex bf if her current bf had done the decent thing and went home instead of having the audacity to fall asleep on his girlfriends couch.


----------



## Maricha75

Andy1001 said:


> Well maybe before she so generously and selflessly gave him the space that he didn't ask for she could have gave an explanation as to why she was planning on sleeping with an ex bf if her current bf had done the decent thing and went home instead of having the audacity to fall asleep on his girlfriends couch.


Maybe she could have. And maybe he could have stayed at the apartment for her to tell him exactly what you suggested... But he didn't. He left to "calm down", as he said. I don't blame him for leaving at all. But he could have stayed, even if he didn't believe a word she said. 

But my point was that you assume, like others here, that she ran straight to the ex, rather than best friend/sister/cousin/aunt/etc., saying she royally screwed up and doesn't know what to do to try to fix it. Explaining what she did, his reaction... And then having them tell her to let him calm down and decide if/when he wants to talk to her. Funny... That same advice has been given to cheaters on here... to let the betrayed partner decide when to talk about what happened. But, this is clearly different, right? Because...?? Oh. It really isn't any different.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## ABHale

*Deidre* said:


> Run!! (Seriously, don't marry her. She's proven that she's a liar, and you'll just end up marrying...a liar)


I love this...... 

It's good to laugh. It like someone blurting out something on impulse. But this is so true. 

Thanks Deidre.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

browser said:


> Agree with all of the above except that "cheating has nothing to do with the relationship".
> 
> Sometimes, it's completely unrelated. More often there are problems that led to the cheating. I know this is when people chime in and say "cheating is never the betrayed partner's fault!"
> 
> I tend to disagree with that statement. Not always, but often enough.


 So would that make murder justifiable because "there were problems" that led to the murder? 
The ultimate decision to cheat was made by her. There is no action that justifies that decision. Get a divorce if you are that miserable, don't cheat first, that's cowardly.


----------



## Andy1001

Maricha75 said:


> Maybe she could have. And maybe he could have stayed at the apartment for her to tell him exactly what you suggested... But he didn't. He left to "calm down", as he said. I don't blame him for leaving at all. But he could have stayed, even if he didn't believe a word she said.
> 
> But my point was that you assume, like others here, that she ran straight to the ex, rather than best friend/sister/cousin/aunt/etc., saying she royally screwed up and doesn't know what to do to try to fix it. Explaining what she did, his reaction... And then having them tell her to let him calm down and decide if/when he wants to talk to her. Funny... That same advice has been given to cheaters on here... to let the betrayed partner decide when to talk about what happened. But, this is clearly different, right? Because...?? Oh. It really isn't any different.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


You are trying to make it sound like the op read the texts and then stormed out and you are wrong.He asked her straight away what was going on and she tried to find out exactly what he had read but in his own words he remained silent.She then initially said she refused to discuss it,then she started gaslighting him about plane tickets and then said he wasn't giving her enough attention at the time.She can say what she wants but the one unmitigated truth in this sorry story is she texted an ex boyfriend to explain why she couldn't meet him because her current boyfriend was asleep on her couch as well as other explicit messages which the op hasn't shared with us.


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## browser

Rubix Cubed said:


> So would that make murder justifiable because "there were problems" that led to the murder?
> The ultimate decision to cheat was made by her. There is no action that justifies that decision. Get a divorce if you are that miserable, don't cheat first, that's cowardly.


I will assume your comment is directed at my post:



browser said:


> Agree with all of the above except that "cheating has nothing to do with the relationship".
> 
> Sometimes, it's completely unrelated. More often there are problems that led to the cheating. I know this is when people chime in and say "cheating is never the betrayed partner's fault!"
> 
> I tend to disagree with that statement. Not always, but often enough.


To that end I will respond to your suggestion that I somehow justify or condone cheating.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make that clarification.


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## Maricha75

Andy1001 said:


> You are trying to make it sound like the op read the texts and then stormed out and you are wrong.He asked her straight away what was going on and she tried to find out exactly what he had read but in his own words he remained silent.She then initially said she refused to discuss it,then she started gaslighting him about plane tickets and then said he wasn't giving her enough attention at the time.She can say what she wants but the one unmitigated truth in this sorry story is she texted an ex boyfriend to explain why she couldn't meet him because her current boyfriend was asleep on her couch.


Sigh...No, Andy, I am not. All I said is that HE stated he had to leave to calm down. I DO NOT BLAME HIM ONE BIT FOR DOING THAT. The ONLY thing I am disagreeing with you on is the ASSUMPTION that she ran straight to the ex. YOU do not know she did. *I* do not know that she did. The ONLY thing known is that NEITHER has contacted the other. And my GUESS is that it is because they are BOTH getting the same advice... let the other make the first move to contact. 

But, thank you, SO MUCH, for telling me what I am saying (about which, you are wrong, btw). 

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## ABHale

The thing is you have no idea if they finally go together after she accused you of playing watch dog to her ex. 

Is she still in contact with her ex?

With her holding off to see what you knew looks like she is still in contact with her ex. She only went as far as she had to in telling the truth. 

I wouldn't trust her in this. I don't think you have the whole truth.


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## Lostinthought61

he could ask for her phone logs and check to see if she is in contact with him after those that date.


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## Seppuku

Just ask for her current phone and check the deleted texts. That will give you your answer.

However, in my opinion the is no reason to do this - you already know who she is. When people say "once a cheater always a cheater" they don't mean the cheater will always cheat, but it does mean that the cheater has proven themselves capable of cheating, which is justification enough to end the relationship before you end up paying alimony.

I agree with others, do not contact her. The onus is on her if she wants to come clean and do something to try to save the relationship. If she can't be bothered, why should you?


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## Tatsuhiko

She's got a jealousy problem which might lead to a troubled marriage.
You're in couples counseling _before_ you're even married, because you anticipate a troubled marriage.
She was planning on cheating on you, which would lead to a very troubled marriage.

Conclusion? Don't get married. Let her down easy just to avoid drama and hurt.


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## *Deidre*

ABHale said:


> I love this......
> 
> It's good to laugh. It like someone blurting out something on impulse. But this is so true.
> 
> Thanks Deidre.


YW 

It_ is_ true. If someone is lying to you before you're married to him/her, there's really no point in going forward into marriage with that person.


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## sokillme

Look man, 18% of all future earnings is a big risk when you already know the person is a liar. You already went through this once. People show you their character. Granted yours needs some work too. But usually that doesn't change late in life. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Some of them are just open and honest.


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## GusPolinski

Maricha75 said:


> ... And then he finds out from someone else that hecwas advised by a friend or family member to give him space and let him decide if he wants to call/text/meet to talk. Meanwhile, she is sitting at home, upset that she damn near (or probably did) screwed things up because of something said over a year ago, and long forgotten until a couple days ago.
> 
> But, it's easier to assume the worst, right?


Based on her track record?

It's not an assumption -- it's an educated guess.


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## Maricha75

GusPolinski said:


> Based on her track record?
> 
> It's not an assumption -- it's an educated guess.


For that matter, based in his track record? In her shoes, I would be concerned that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant. See how that works? Call it an "assumption", call it an "educated guess". The point is they BOTH are not ready to marry, and they should not stay together. I am just not quick to jump to the conclusion that she ran straight to the ex. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Whether she contacts him first or vice versa, they should talk, and part ways. JMO

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## phillybeffandswiss

See and this is why you two break up. She carries baggage from your lie, as you see from the comments her lie is worse to many, you now carry baggage from her lie. I know there are different types of counseling, like pre-marriage, but when it is one where you are finding serious flaws I never understand why those two people get married.


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## GusPolinski

Maricha75 said:


> For that matter, based in his track record? In her shoes, I would be concerned that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant. See how that works? Call it an "assumption", call it an "educated guess". The point is they BOTH are not ready to marry, and they should not stay together. I am just not quick to jump to the conclusion that she ran straight to the ex. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Whether she contacts him first or vice versa, they should talk, and part ways. JMO


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## Tatsuhiko

Maricha75 said:


> For that matter, based in his track record? In her shoes, I would be concerned that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant. See how that works? Call it an "assumption", call it an "educated guess". The point is they BOTH are not ready to marry, and they should not stay together. I am just not quick to jump to the conclusion that she ran straight to the ex. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Whether she contacts him first or vice versa, they should talk, and part ways. JMO


Or as Gus asked in post #32, why would we bother haggling about who dumps who?


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## RWB

Keke24 said:


> You hurt her because you lied about sourcing plane tickets ... She was doing it for attention ...
> 
> *Typical cheater MO, blame it on anything but your own choices.*


She is not worth the risk.

Oh she says "We were in a bad place", "I was mad at you about FILL IN THE BLANK", "You were ignoring me"... 

Hmmm... "I know what to do... cheat on you with old BF"

But, you got a glimpse at the future. Think this logic will never happen after you are married, think again.


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## EHuntIMF

Maricha75 said:


> For that matter, based in his track record? In her shoes, I would be concerned that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant. See how that works? Call it an "assumption", call it an "educated guess". The point is they BOTH are not ready to marry, and they should not stay together. I am just not quick to jump to the conclusion that she ran straight to the ex. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Whether she contacts him first or vice versa, they should talk, and part ways. JMO
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Again, I did immediately confessed to what I had done, showed all emails including those with my friend, and even gave her the phone number to her if she wanted to verify the story. You are right in that I shouldn't have lied in the first place, but I did confess and was forthcoming with all information.

Secondly, You are all right in that we shouldn't get married. The information I discovered on the phone was not confessed or presented to me before my marriage proposal to her. I know for a fact that if I had done the same thing to her A) She wouldn't have accepted my proposal B) She would have probably tried to hurt me in some way

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - Arthur Conan Doyle

Truth of the matter is this: I admitted my lie immediately, and as stated before it was over some insignificant. @Maricha: you stated that you would be concerned "that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant". I can see your point, but I also counter that I immediately confessed and presented all evidence to verify the transaction.

My question to you is this: Should I not be concerned about this thing she has withheld that is major?


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## Yeswecan

EHuntIMF said:


> My question to you is this: Should I not be concerned about this thing she has withheld that is major?


you betcha!


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## Maricha75

EHuntIMF said:


> Again, I did immediately confessed to what I had done, showed all emails including those with my friend, and even gave her the phone number to her if she wanted to verify the story. You are right in that I shouldn't have lied in the first place, but I did confess and was forthcoming with all information.
> 
> Secondly, You are all right in that we shouldn't get married. The information I discovered on the phone was not confessed or presented to me before my marriage proposal to her. I know for a fact that if I had done the same thing to her A) She wouldn't have accepted my proposal B) She would have probably tried to hurt me in some way
> 
> Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> Truth of the matter is this: I admitted my lie immediately, and as stated before it was over some insignificant. @Maricha: you stated that you would be concerned "that he would lie to me about important things, since he had already proven he can lie about what some consider insignificant". I can see your point, but I also counter that I immediately confessed and presented all evidence to verify the transaction.
> 
> *My question to you is this: Should I not be concerned about this thing she has withheld that is major?*


You absolutely SHOULD be concerned about that. I have not argued that you shouldn't in ANY way. The only thing I have said, in that respect, is don't jump to the CONCLUSION that she went there, and is still there. Did she? Maybe, maybe not. I explained what COULD have occurred, based on how my friends/family And, yes, even my own husband, would handle it... give the other party space, time to calm down. EHuntIMF, you said it yourself, that you needed to calm down that day. I think that was a good decision, fwiw. And it stands to reason she may think you need the time to figure out what YOU want to do. That would be following YOUR lead. 

Yes, I understand you confessed right away and presented all the evidence. You still lied. And it would still make me question other things that you might lie about. 

Anyway, whether she calls you or you call her, just get it over with. Tell her you don't think you are a good match, in light of alk of this, and go your separate ways.

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## Lostinthought61

EHuntIMF said:


> My question to you is this: Should I not be concerned about this thing she has withheld that is major?



Oh HELL YEAH....we are not even close to comparing apple to oranges we are talking about apples to watermelons 

what you do from here will dictate the foundation of your relationship with her, either in your life or out of your life...and since she had choose not to reach out to you in any manner to further help you understand she had not cross the lines speaks volumes......i would suggest that perhaps she knows she has and if you come back to her and you work thing out....then she has the upper hand in the relationship. in other words you can not live without her she can live with out you


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## bandit.45

He lied, she lied, they both lied.... We get it!!!!

Sheezus!....Just break up wit her man and move on!


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## GusPolinski

EHuntIMF said:


> Should I not be concerned about this thing she has withheld that is major?


I wouldn't be _concerned_ about it, per se. I'd instead simply accept it as truth and use it to steel my resolve to be done with her.


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## nekonamida

I don't think it matters at all if she went there or not. She was going to. You sleeping on the couch was the only thing stopping her. She doesn't even deny that and already had a justification for why it would have been your fault if she did it. At minimum, she had an emotional affair with her ex while dating you. You said this is a hard deal breaker. Now's the time to enact it.


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## harrybrown

hopefully, you are still N/C with her?

then stay N/C. Run as fast as you can.

Good that you found out before you were married.


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## EHuntIMF

harrybrown said:


> hopefully, you are still N/C with her?
> 
> then stay N/C. Run as fast as you can.
> 
> Good that you found out before you were married.


Update: Talked with my therapist the other day and she said for me to take some time and not talk to her for a week. She also wants to go over some Anger release techniques at our next session. She also informed me that she had told my soon-to-be-ex to not contact me until next week at the earliest as well. The therapist apparently gave her some exercises to do to try and understand the why behind what she did, but also wants to meet with us together in the future to discuss this.

I will take this weekend to go out and just have some fun with friends.

That's it....N/C continues


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## ButtPunch

EHuntIMF said:


> Update: Talked with my therapist the other day and she said for me to take some time and not talk to her for a week. She also wants to go over some Anger release techniques at our next session. She also informed me that she had told my soon-to-be-ex to not contact me until next week at the earliest as well. The therapist apparently gave her some exercises to do to try and understand the why behind what she did, but also wants to meet with us together in the future to discuss this.
> 
> I will take this weekend to go out and just have some fun with friends.
> 
> That's it....N/C continues


No contact?

Hell....You better be moving on with your life. 

We don't want you to end up married and starting another thread here in 3 years.


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## Lostinthought61

EF, 


question in her initial argument with her, did she say if she is was in contact with him after she received her new phone?


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## bandit.45

EHuntIMF said:


> Update: Talked with my therapist the other day and she said for me to take some time and not talk to her for a week. She also wants to go over some Anger release techniques at our next session. She also informed me that she had told my soon-to-be-ex to not contact me until next week at the earliest as well. The therapist apparently gave her some exercises to do to try and understand the why behind what she did, but also wants to meet with us together in the future to discuss this.
> 
> I will take this weekend to go out and just have some fun with friends.
> 
> That's it....N/C continues


To what end is all this effort? I thought you were breaking up with her. 

Take the money you are spending on IC and buy a new flat screen TV.


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## Maricha75

bandit.45 said:


> To what end is all this effort? I thought you were breaking up with her.
> 
> Take the money you are spending on IC and buy a new flat screen TV.


Bandit, he has had other issues he has been dealing with, not just the ones related to the stbx. I would agree thst, if she is indeed stbx, then stop the whole couples thing, for sure. But keep seeing the therapist to deal with the other things.

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## bandit.45

deleted


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

Yeswecan said:


> Sigh....so next time you are not dancing around her providing attention she will do this again? Might want to step back and reconsider.


I've dealt with that. It's not worth it man. If it happens once it is likely to happen again. The whole "I was doing it for attention" thing is total bull. If she really did do it for attention the she is an emotionally strong enough to be in a marriage. Things get rough, a marriage has ups and downs. If she's not able to stay loyal when you're at you peak of being in love what is she going to do a few years into marriage when that love changes into something that's not as exciting to her?

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## EunuchMonk

Comparing lying about where he got plane tickets to her trying to physically cheat on him? LOL! Some people are really reaching.


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## *Deidre*

EHuntIMF said:


> Update: Talked with my therapist the other day and she said for me to take some time and not talk to her for a week. She also wants to go over some Anger release techniques at our next session. She also informed me that she had told my soon-to-be-ex to not contact me until next week at the earliest as well. The therapist apparently gave her some exercises to do to try and understand the why behind what she did, but also wants to meet with us together in the future to discuss this.
> 
> I will take this weekend to go out and just have some fun with friends.
> 
> That's it....N/C continues


You need a new therapist, tbh.  You should be NC forever. Seriously. She will continue to hurt you for as long as you let her in your life. Your therapist shouldn't even be sharing with you what your ex fiance is doing. This therapist seems very unprofessional, and honestly...her advice will hurt you in the end. I hope you stay NC for good, and work on healing. Work on getting stronger. NC gives strength, helps you clear your mind. To let her come back in after your hard work, is bad advice, IMO. Hope you stay true to yourself.


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## bandit.45

Therapists are like shoes. You have to try them on until one fits.


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## Maricha75

EunuchMonk said:


> Comparing lying about where he got plane tickets to her trying to physically cheat on him? LOL! Some people are really reaching.


I guessed you missed the part about WHY some of us were asking about that part??? Here, let me break it down for you. IF the female friend had actually been an ex he was on good terms with, that would have been a problem. However, he explained why, and, *gasp* we got it. And we no longer asked about it. But, it seems some feel the need to harp on that particular part, even after it has been resolved. I think it was a valid question, and am glad to learn that was NOT the case. 

Funny thing, though, about why she has not contacted him during this time... As I theorized a few pages back, someone DID advise her not to contact him. I don't think it was professional for the therapist to mention that to him, UNLESS the stbx gave permission to do so, which is possible. 

At any rate, I think he should confront her, at some point, and actually say the words "it's over". Sure, she probably knows, but there is something about saying/hearing the words that strengthens resolve. 

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## Dyokemm

Do you really think you just happened to have the good fortune to unintentionally screw up the ONLY time they ever planned to hook up?

You were only able to catch a snippet of what she was up to in those texts......and she sure as heck hasn't been bending over backwards to present loads of evidence that would prove to you it wasn't longer term, not seriously inappropriate, or the only time they met or planned to....

You know....like the stuff you did when addressing your admittedly foolish lie about who really got you and your cousin a plane ticket discount.

Law of probabilities my friend.....

She didn't confess

She hasn't been forthcoming with any texts or emails that could lead you to think this might not be as bad as it seems

She has been blaming you/the relationship for why she did these things with multiple men, including an ex

Now...is it possible that she has told you the truth and full extent of what has happened?

Yes

But is it probable?

No

In fact, the probability is not even close to 50-50.

You told a stupid lie over a meaningless issue......and yet you did everything possible to apologize and offer proof to her of the extent of what really happened.

She has been caught engaging in relationship ending behaviors......and she has done.....NOTHING.

Wonder why?......could it be because she is well aware that if you ever get all the details about her communications and actions with these turds, she will find herself dumped the next minute? 

Believing that she has most likely betrayed you both emotionally and physically is not making a baseless assumption IMO.....

It is simply using logic and probability to understand what you are really dealing with here so you can decide your future path.

My advice is to dump her......the most probable assumption is you are dealing with an unremorseful serial cheater who is still actively hiding things and being deceitful.


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## phillybeffandswiss

EunuchMonk said:


> Comparing lying about where he got plane tickets to her trying to physically cheat on him? LOL! Some people are really reaching.


I'm comparing acts. He lied about a woman and she lied about a man. That's it for me and they are already in counseling. Nope, move on. Neither of them are honest based on the "she is jealous so, I will lie" and "we were in a bad place so, I lied." Both reasons foster mistrust so, it is time to go.


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## Tatsuhiko

It's great that you two are now doing exercises. I hope the both of you continue to do these "exercises" in your separate, completely-disconnected, never-to-be-reunited lives. In a year, it will be a great feeling to know that she's doing "exercises" many miles away from you and your new girlfriend. 

Instead of an "anger release" exercise, may I suggest a "fiancee-release" exercise that lasts about 80 years? I think this is the best way to mitigate the anger.


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## GusPolinski

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm comparing acts. He lied about a woman and she lied about a man. That's it for me and they are already in counseling. Nope, move on. Neither of them are honest based on the "she is jealous so, I will lie" and "we were in a bad place so, I lied." Both reasons foster mistrust so, it is time to go.


If he's in a relationship w/ someone to whom he feels the need to lie about something so trivial (and apparently he is), he needs to get out of that relationship.

So that's two reasons to dump her.


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## Talker67

EHuntIMF said:


> Update: Talked with my therapist the other day and she said for me to take some time and not talk to her for a week. She also wants to go over some Anger release techniques at our next session. She also informed me that she had told my soon-to-be-ex to not contact me until next week at the earliest as well. The therapist apparently gave her some exercises to do to try and understand the why behind what she did, but also wants to meet with us together in the future to discuss this.
> 
> I will take this weekend to go out and just have some fun with friends.
> 
> That's it....N/C continues


a good "anger release technique" is to punch and kick the **** out of a heavy bag at the gym!


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## CuddleBug

sokillme said:


> This is a mess, first of don't feel guilty about trusting your gut. Next why are you lying to her that is not how a good relationship works. Finally because you lied about tickets she decided to sext an ex. Seriously? She then tells you it was because she is lonely. Um life 101 everyone gets lonely. People who have to contact ex-partners because you are busy have no business being married. A healthy and frankly very normal response for this is saying "hey I am really feeling lonely lets do something, go on a trip, day trip, get coffee every night." This is how normal healthy people deal with this. Seriously call it quits, sounds like you already went through this once. She is no prize. There are thousands and thousands of better women out there.
> 
> You need to figure out why you are ending up with these types of women. Your lying because you are afraid to talk about stuff is a good start. It's already a passive aggressive dynamic.



Couldn't of said it better myself.


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