# How to help my husbands anger



## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

Long story short but we've been together 26 yrs, married over 20...high school sweethearts. 5 yrs ago, a lot of things went on in our lives...husbands dad died, mom found out she had cancer, husbands job was on the line and he kindof snapped...threw his hands up and walked out on me. Now our marriage wasn't perfect but not that bad! We were separated for 6 mths and worked hard to be stronger then ever. During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back. Wanted a divorce, didnt'. Two weeks after he moved out, he got divorce papers & moved out all his stuff. I wound up going out a few times with another guy during this time & yes we had sex a few times. Fast forward 4 yrs and things are great with hubby and I...we've worked hard to be where we are and are happy. I got diagnosed with breast cancer last Feb. Been a long rough year and my husband was my rock. I went thru chemo and 2 surgeries. I've beat it and am finally recouping! three week ago, my husband starts telling me he's not sure how he feels anymore, etc. Apparently the "affair" as he calls it that I had during our separation almost 5 yrs ago is haunting him. He never really dealt with it at the time and now the anger has hit him. I'm told this does happen. How can I help him? Things have been awesome with us since we got back together and now we're separated again and he's a mess!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> Long story short but we've been together 26 yrs, married over 20...high school sweethearts. 5 yrs ago, a lot of things went on in our lives...husbands dad died, mom found out she had cancer, husbands job was on the line and he kindof snapped...threw his hands up and walked out on me. Now our marriage wasn't perfect but not that bad! We were separated for 6 mths and worked hard to be stronger then ever. During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back. Wanted a divorce, didnt'. Two weeks after he moved out, he got divorce papers & moved out all his stuff. I wound up going out a few times with another guy during this time & yes we had sex a few times. Fast forward 4 yrs and things are great with hubby and I...we've worked hard to be where we are and are happy. I got diagnosed with breast cancer last Feb. Been a long rough year and my husband was my rock. I went thru chemo and 2 surgeries. I've beat it and am finally recouping! three week ago, my husband starts telling me he's not sure how he feels anymore, etc. Apparently the "affair" as he calls it that I had during our separation almost 5 yrs ago is haunting him. He never really dealt with it at the time and now the anger has hit him. I'm told this does happen. How can I help him? Things have been awesome with us since we got back together and now we're separated again and he's a mess!


You can help him by getting him to see a trained psychologist for some deep counselling.

Yeah, he stepped up to the batting crease when you had cancer and that's good. But that doesn't excuse his earlier bad behaviour.

Was he having an affair at the time, when he left you?:scratchhead:


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

No, no affair. He used to have a bad tendency to not talk about things and I think with his dad dying, mom being diagnosed with cancer, his job on the line and things werent' great with us, it's like he snapped.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Help him? He threw you away. He ran out on you like a cowardly little b!tch those 5 years ago. You should ask him how he's going to help you cope with the fact that he discarded you like a piece of trash. 

You just beat cancer. Last thing you need to do is to relive a crappy time in your life when your husband left you. Your husband is being an ass.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I started seeing a marriage counselor who says what my husbands experiencing is like PtSD where he gets flashes of things, the anger is like I just cheated on him. It's all raw. I"m not trying to excuse his behavior by any means. I handled things wrong when we split up before....I felt like he was throwing me away and reacted bad! The past few years have been awesome. But as much as I understand what's goingon in his head, it's frustrating as all hell!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> No, no affair. He used to have a bad tendency to not talk about things and I think with his dad dying, mom being diagnosed with cancer, his job on the line and things werent' great with us, it's like he snapped.


Snapped so much he needed a divorce? That doesn't sound right.

There may be stuff you do not know about.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> I started seeing a marriage counselor who says what my husbands experiencing is like PtSD where he gets flashes of things, the anger is like I just cheated on him. It's all raw. I"m not trying to excuse his behavior by any means. I handled things wrong when we split up before....I felt like he was throwing me away and reacted bad! The past few years have been awesome. But as much as I understand what's goingon in his head, it's frustrating as all hell!!


Excuse me, sdcp16 your husband *DID* throw you away.

If there's anyone who should be suffering from PTSD, it is you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How did your affair go down? Two weeks after 20 years and your having sex with another man?

How did your H find out? Did you bring OM into your marital bed?

Is OM still around? Did you know him before your H moved?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> No, no affair. He used to have a bad tendency to not talk about things and I think with his dad dying, mom being diagnosed with cancer, his job on the line and things werent' great with us, it's like he snapped.


I just went through both of my parents dying in the past few months and my girlfriend thought we were done because I needed to be alone.

I was dealing with so much pain that it is not that I didn't want her around, it was that I was in a very bad mood and I did not want to have to entertain her if that make sense.

When crunch time came, he was there for you. To me, that is a big thing.

Matt is right. I think you need to talk about it. You were sleeping with some guy while you were married and that is not ok. He left you and that is not ok either. You were both wrong... He was there for you when you absolutely needed him. He may feel like you won't be there for him. This is something you need to discuss with him. 

If you want to be with him, talk to him, reassure him, tell him about your hurts and talk to him about his and do it without demeaning each other and casting blame. See where that takes you.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I absolutely agree that how I handled things 5 years ago was wrong! I'm mortified that I did what I did. This other guy was out of the picture once my husband & I got back together and has been out of our lives. He was never at my house. Unfortunately we live in a small town so we see him sometimes. I thought we'd worked through all this. I told my husband all about what I'd done 5 years ago when we were getting back together. At the time he seemed more hurt then angry. Now the anger is coming out like it all just happened!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> I just went through both of my parents dying in the past few months and my girlfriend thought we were done because I needed to be alone.
> 
> I was dealing with so much pain that it is not that I didn't want her around, it was that I was in a very bad mood and I did not want to have to entertain her if that make sense.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but...


> *Two weeks after he moved out, he got divorce papers & moved out all his stuff. *I wound up going out a few times with another guy during this time & yes we had sex a few times.


Looks like he had made his mind up to get shot of his missus. 

And then changed his mind. 

Why'd he do that?:scratchhead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> How did your affair go down? Two weeks after 20 years and your having sex with another man?
> 
> How did your H find out? Did you bring OM into your marital bed?
> 
> ...


You know, I'm not convinced she had an affair. Husband presented the divorce papers, moved all his stuff out and she decided to date.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your affair was rug swept. Have you examined why you moved so fast and picked the man you did? Was he an acquaintance before?

Your H is finally in anger phase.

Did he have all his questions answered about the affair?

Is moving a possibility? The whole town probably knows of your indiscretion. Why did OM sleep with a married woman? How did he take your affair ending?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I think I did what I did because I was hurt and felt like my husband threw me away. I admit now it was inappropriate and not something I ever did before or have done again. I regret deeply what I did. I answered all my husbands questions about the affair and was honest about it all. Its a guy I knew from high school. Didnt' know him well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You know, I'm not convinced she had an affair. Husband presented the divorce papers, moved all his stuff out and she decided to date.


It was. She knows it was and her H does too. They were working hard for 6 months to repair their marriage. Not sure how screwing another man was working on the marriage so I was trying to see what went down. It is unclear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah, but...
> 
> Looks like he had made his mind up to get shot of his missus.
> 
> ...


He fell apart.... Too much at one time. Losing both parents, job etc... being able to be a provider all lost in such a short time. He probably thought in some way things would be better without him or that he just couldn't take it any more. Those were the thoughts that went through my head just a few months ago. It was a very brutal time. I had to really focus on the positive as I would just break down sometimes.

He does feel betrayed but he knows he really brought it on himself to an extent. OP did not have to sleep with someone but I am not bashing her either as this is a tough one.

Most likely he is thinking about mortality having lost both parents and being there for his wife when she went through chemo. He was there for her in her darkest hour. To him in his darkest hour, she left him and slept with some guy... (This is a thought going through his head)

To OP, make it perfectly clear that if you want to be with him that he is the man for you, that you appreciate him being your rock and that you will never leave him. If he brings it up about the other guy, tell him you are so sorry and that when your husband threw you away you felt unwanted.

Communicate and Reassure. Do something nice for him, something that takes time and effort.

I am sorry you are here by the way. The price of admission for most of us is way too steep. He was there for you when you had breast cancer. I bet he really wants to make sure you will be there for him always too.

Just my thoughts.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I think it was because during the six months, he would take one step forward, two steps back. It was a hard time for us and I felt like crap. Part of me felt like as much as I wanted my marriage, that maybe I needed to move on. Again, I handled things wrong. I slept with this guy a handful of times. I didn't want a relationship with him....I think he was there at a bad time for me when I felt like my husband wasn't. Again, wrong and I can look back now and see that. At the time, I felt it was ok. My husband didn't move home for 6 months so even though we were working on things, he wasn't home. Keep in mind we have two kids who are now 18 and 16. So he up and left me, our kids and our home. I was hurt by what he didn and reacted poorly! I have owned what I did and apologize profusely. Again, this all happened almost 5 yrs ago and since then we've been great.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> You know, I'm not convinced she had an affair. Husband presented the divorce papers, moved all his stuff out and she decided to date.


It was adultery if it was not an affair. I am not giving you grief OP. People do some stupid things when they have been hurt really badly. Yes, you should not have done it. Yes it was wrong, but it is understandable.

I told you what I believe are his underlying issues. You should talk to him.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Have you read any books on how to help your husband afterwards your affair?

You are going to have to treat this like it recently happened. Your H did not work through this and it is coming out now.

Some men have gone 20 years and blown.

Do you know what heavy lifting means?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> He fell apart.... Too much at one time. Losing both parents, job etc... being able to be a provider all lost in such a short time. He probably thought in some way things would be better without him or that he just couldn't take it any more. Those were the thoughts that went through my head just a few months ago. It was a very brutal time. I had to really focus on the positive as I would just break down sometimes.
> 
> He does feel betrayed but he knows he really brought it on himself to an extent. OP did not have to sleep with someone but I am not bashing her either as this is a tough one.
> 
> ...


Where did he stay? Who with?

I have seen situations where a wife/husband has left home, made the beast with two backs themselves, yet screamed blue murder when their spouse got a bit of the ol' carnal congress, too.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

And I absolutely positively am here for him! I love him with all my heart and have told him so numerous times. He and our kids are my world. Honestly, after being diagnosed with cancer, it made me cherish what I have more then ever before! Puts a new perspective on life!!


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

He actually stayed at his moms house during our separation


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> It was. She knows it was and her H does too. They were working hard for 6 months to repair their marriage. Not sure how screwing another man was working on the marriage so I was trying to see what went down. It is unclear.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree. He left her and then shortly after produced divorce papers. Then he played games for 6 months. I get what he suffered was tremendous loss, but it was not due to anything his wife did yet he threw away the one person who he should have confided in most. I believe neither worked hard tbh. He told he was done with her and she found solace in another. Too fast? IDK, but clearly she took him at his word at the time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There seems to be a whole lot of stuff happening, here.

You know, your husband might be channeling anger toward you that he should not be.

He went through a lot of bad, traumatic events. 

He might harbour anger toward his parents, along the lines of feeling abandoned by them. Now, that's utterly unfair and irrational, but people often feel that way.

The anger's there, but he can't express it at his parents, that would be wrong, so he looks around for another target. Oh, look! There's his wife who did X, Y, Z! 

And all unconsciously.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> And I absolutely positively am here for him! I love him with all my heart and have told him so numerous times. He and our kids are my world. Honestly, after being diagnosed with cancer, it made me cherish what I have more then ever before! Puts a new perspective on life!!


My kids know that I love them. They also know that I love them because I tell them all the time. I wrote them each a page full of reasons on there Valentines day cards. I told them about all of the things that they do that make them special. 

Write down 50 reason why you love him in a nice list and read it to him in front of your kids. Go to his work and bring him his favorite meal for lunch and kiss him in front of all his co-workers.

I hug and kiss my 3 boys in front of all of their friends. I will never be embarrassed to show love so I do theses things. He is probably afraid you might leave if he gets sick but he would never admit it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I disagree. He left her and then shortly after produced divorce papers. Then he played games for 6 months. I get what he suffered was tremendous loss, but it was not due to anything his wife did yet he threw away the one person who he should have confided in most. I believe neither worked hard tbh. He told he was done with her and she found solace in another. Too fast? IDK, but clearly she took him at his word at the time.


They feel it was an affair. He didn't go right out and start screwing an old classmate. She feels remorseful and he is hitting anger phase. Call it whatever you want if she doesn't do some learning to do heavy lifting and help him heal, they might be done.

This was never dealt with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

He's pissed because he filed, moved his stuff, and you, my girl, showed him he can be replaced. Its a bitter pill and lesson in reality where sometimes your arrogance and related actions come back to bite you in the azz.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> They feel it was an affair. He didn't go right out and start screwing an old classmate. She feels remorseful and he is hitting anger phase. Call it whatever you want if she doesn't do some learning to do heavy lifting and help him heal, they might be done.
> 
> This was never dealt with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately it's going down that road. What's bad about it is she gets the brunt of this. His role in this will be rug swept and the full attention goes to her reaction to him abandoning his family and throwing divorce papers at her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He cheated... his children out of a stable family. And that's bad.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> He's pissed because he filed, moved his stuff, and you, my girl, showed him he can be replaced. Its a bitter pill and lesson in reality where sometimes your arrogance and related actions come back to bite you in the azz.


_This_ is the bottom line.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Unfortunately it's going down that road. What's bad about it is she gets the brunt of this. His role in this will be rug swept and the full attention goes to her reaction to him abandoning his family and throwing divorce papers at her.


I agree that those issues need dealt with and maybe were already instead of the aftermath of the affair. They were having a very hard time and he caused damage. That was probably dealt with in the 6 month period and after. OP sounds very satisfied with her marriage. Her bringing another man into her after 20 years with her H has not been dealt with and does lay solely at her feet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I agree that those issues need dealt with and maybe were already instead of the aftermath of the affair. They were having a very hard time and he caused damage. That was probably dealt with in the 6 month period and after. OP sounds very satisfied with her marriage. Her bringing another man into her after 20 years with her H has not been dealt with and does lay solely at her feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it was apparently resolved then. Yet has become a problem for him again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I think it was apparently resolved then. Yet has become a problem for him again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am fairly sure that the adultery doesn't bother him as much as he is afraid of her leaving if he gets sick. He just took care of her when she went through chemo and he is probably wondering who she is. He most likely wants to be sure she will be there for him, but he is a guy and doesn't want to seem weak so he would never say those things out loud. 

Just my thoughts, but I'm right


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP. It sounds like you worked out the marriage issues but maybe didn't deal with the affair? What counseling did you two get to deal specifically with your affair?

BTW. MovingAhead is really giving some treasures for you. Good stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Her bringing another man into her after 20 years with her H has not been dealt with and does lay solely at her feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Out of curiosity, how many days should her estranged husband had to change his mind and mossy back home after pulling his packing up and filing shenanigan.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Out of curiosity, how many days should her estranged husband had to change his mind and mossy back home after pulling his packing up and filing shenanigan.


Really depends on what they were discussing when separated and "working" on the marriage. I sincerely doubt that during their conversations she let her husband know that she was going to start having sex with an old classmate just to make herself feel better. It was obviously done without her Hs knowledge and then when it looked like they were making headway, she breaks it off with her lover and tells her H. I wonder if they were in counseling when she was seeing her lover?

Anyway, Phoenix, if he was so replaceable, why does OP want to hold on so hard. I don't think he is that replaceable.

I think OP acted very stupidly in a hard situation when she was hurt, I will even say she was selfish, she wasn't thinking of future impact on her boys or marriage that was still being hammered out.

From her own posts, it does not sound like her husband is replaceable. Certainly not by the shytstain that slept with a married woman going through pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> I am fairly sure that the adultery doesn't bother him as much as he is afraid of her leaving if he gets sick. He just took care of her when she went through chemo and he is probably wondering who she is. He most likely wants to be sure she will be there for him, but he is a guy and doesn't want to seem weak so he would never say those things out loud.
> 
> Just my thoughts, but I'm right


There might be something to this. I read about a man who had just decided to give R a try with his WW. She then hurt her back and he had to wait on her hand and foot. All the time he was steaming thinking why isn’t the OM here taking care of her. 

I’m not sure of the timing but the OP’s cancer was an emergency and he pitched in without giving it a second thought. He didn’t have time to think until she got better. He probably thought I lived up to my end of the bargain (in sickness and in health) and she didn’t (to forsake all others).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sdcp16 said:


> I started seeing a marriage counselor who says what my husbands experiencing is like PtSD where he gets flashes of things, the anger is like I just cheated on him. It's all raw. I"m not trying to excuse his behavior by any means. I handled things wrong when we split up before....I felt like he was throwing me away and reacted bad! The past few years have been awesome. But as much as I understand what's goingon in his head, it's frustrating as all hell!!


I see a pattern here with your husband. His parents have health problems and die. He falls apart and leaves you.

You get seriously ill, what he stepped up the plate now that it's safe... he's falling apart and he is threatening your marriage again.

Your husband walked out on you 5 years ago, filed for divorce. You did nothing wrong. He needs to see a therapist to deal with HIS problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Unfortunately it's going down that road. What's bad about it is she gets the brunt of this. *His role in this will be rug swept and the full attention goes to her reaction to him abandoning his family and throwing divorce papers at her. *


sdcp16
I would like to address the bolded part above.

With all this talk going on between the two of you about what you did after he filed for divorce, what percentage of the talk is going to address what he did? What you did cannot be dealt with in a healthy manner in while his actions and contribution are being ignored.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Graywolf2 said:


> There might be something to this. I read about a man who had just decided to give R a try with his WW. She then hurt her back and he had to wait on her hand and foot. All the time he was steaming thinking why isn’t the OM here taking care of her.
> 
> I’m not sure of the timing but the OP’s cancer was an emergency and he pitched in without giving it a second thought. He didn’t have time to think until she got better. He probably thought I lived up to my end of the bargain (in sickness and in health) and she didn’t (to forsake all others).


Isn't part of the bargain that you don't abandon your spouse and children?

He walked out on her and the children. He played games for months. 

She had every reason to not give him another chance and reconcile. But she did. That should go a long way.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Anyway, Phoenix, if he was so replaceable, why does OP want to hold on so hard. I don't think he is that replaceable.


When a man tells a woman he's hitting the trail, he better realize she may not spend a lot of time pining over him and waiting for his return. Just like its a punch to a mans ego when his wife walks out, a woman experiences the same thing. Sometimes that ego can't resist a boost. When you're playing those games, you need to be careful about letting your mouth overload your azz.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

A spouse moves out and serves his/her spouse with divorce papers, how is that working on the marriage? To me it says - no make that *screams "We're through. We're done. I no longer want to be married to you"*. Sure, it isn't smart to start becoming intimate with another person so soon after what looks like the end of a marriage, especially if there are some very strong feelings for the STBX, but then when people are hurting they tend to do stupid crap they later regret.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OPs words. They were trying to work really hard for 6 months.

He was going back and forth about divorce and she was screwing an old classmate. Sounds pretty bad all around. I am still wondering what they worked on that made her so satisfied for 5 years?

His issues apparently weren't resolved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

SDCP,

With all of the things that happened with your H's parents, job, and other stresses, it sounds like he broke is some way 5 years ago...you say he is being treated for PTSD like symptoms now, and that isn't too surprising given what you say happened.

His behavior and your M struggles during separation and attempted R back then certainly seem to suggest he was in a crisis period.

But you were able to recover and R and you thought the A was dealt with at that time (yes it was an A if there was still ANY talk and communication between you about recovering the M even if he did have papers served).

Then he is your rock and helps you get through your fight against cancer.

Now he is angry after you thought things were great and this was all in the past.

Why?

I think it could be that he is reflecting back on what happened with him and comparing it to your recent struggles with cancer as a couple.

He may be thinking that he stood by you faithfully and lovingly when you needed him most, but when he was in a total meltdown/crisis in his life 5 years ago, instead of you being patient, understanding, and his rock at the worst time of his life, you reacted to his crisis driven poor choices and actions by quickly moving into a sexual relationship with another man.

The disparity between the two situations in terms of being your partner's unshakeable rock at a time of crisis may be what has re awoken his anger and bitterness.

I know you have apologized for the A....maybe an acknowledgement from you that you failed him in his time of crisis, and how his rock solid support for you recently has made you truly realize this, followed by a heartfelt apology for this failure in addition to the A, will help to ease his anger and help you to move forward.

I wish you the best of luck in getting through this.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> He's pissed because he filed, moved his stuff, and you, my girl, showed him he can be replaced. Its a bitter pill and lesson in reality where sometimes your arrogance and related actions come back to bite you in the azz.


Totally agree. 

I have a feeling some of these responses would be different if the genders were reversed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

soccermom2three said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> I have a feeling some of these responses would be different if the genders were reversed.


No kidding.

Yes he seems to have had a melt down 5 years ago.

And when he walked out on her and their children, SHE had a melt down.

His meltdown is not worse than the meltdown what she had when her husband abandoned her and their children and then his filing for divorce.

She did not contribute to his meltdown. He caused her meltdown.

Posters here on TAM tell men to got ahead and start dating as soon as the divorce is filed. That's what the OP did. Male posters are told all the time to go out and get a hot young thing to make themselves feel better. 

But nope... I guess it's wrong when a woman does it.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, would your husband be willing to come to TAM to give his side of the story?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

TBH it sounds like your husband is more in the wrong than you are :scratchhead:

Is what you did even an affair:scratchhead:


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Ele and Soccermom,

I agree that his actions during his crisis were deplorable....but I disagree with your assertion Ele that he CAUSED her meltdown....she made a choice plain and simple.

And if they were still discussing working on a recovery at all, even after the D papers were filed, then she has to face the fact that she chose to quit on him during the crisis he was going through.

She knew his life was falling apart on him and he was behaving erratically...that was the time to stand up and be there for her M...it obviously WASN'T unfixable because they were able to recover after 6 months...and she said they were working and communicating at it the entire time if I read her posts right.

That means she made a choice to quit.

Hey, believe me, I can see and feel sympathy for the tremendous stress and pain she was undoubtedly under at the time as well...but that doesn't undo the choice she made.

And I can't recall a thread where any H or W, was encouraged to go out and get a new partner in a situation like this....in a situation where it is a BS who has filed D on a WS, yes it is sometimes suggested.....but I don't ever recall this advice being given when the other spouse is not cheating but instead in some type of life crisis.

The only advice I've ever seen given then, to a H or W, is to be patient and try to assist them to get help and get through it if possible...and to NOT make rash decisions like running off to find a new sex partner ASAP.

I really think the re emergence of his anger may be because he feels he was there for her 100% when her cancer crisis hit, but now looking back he sees she just quit on him when he was in the most difficult period of his life.

I think OP is truly regretful and loves her BH...I know she has shared that she has apologized for the poor choice of an A.

I think she would help with the healing immensely if she was to apologize for failing him when she should have stood by him the most.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello sdcp and sorry to have you here. Here is my view of what happened and I will try and state it as plainly as possible since there almost seems to be a gender based split on what happened:


Your husband has issues especially since the death of his father, mother's cancer and loss of his job. God knows what I would have done in his shoes. So I understand his melt down.


You had been together for 26 years but for some reason he did not see you as being there for him (only you can say if there was any truth to this) but it certainly seems that he thought so ("throwing his hands up and walking out").


While separated you both agree to work on the marriage. As part of his melt down problems, he rants and raves (understandable) since he had the melt down AND didn't think that you were supporting him (enough for him to walk out).


During this time he completes divorce paperwork (probably fully knowing that he could retract it) to maybe shock you into reality.


You react badly. "Showing him that he could be replaced" should really be replaced with "showing him that you would be fine without him" and would involve telling him that you are giving up on trying to recover the marriage and proceeding with the divorce.


Instead two weeks after you are sleeping with an old high school acquaintance "for whom you did not have any feelings" and "did not plan any long term life/relationship with". I would say that this was pretty bad.


And here's the thing, he didn't know about it until after you had reconciled. So it couldn't have been "to show him that he could be replaced" ! He came back for other reasons, and not because you showed him he could be replaced.


I don't know if as part of coming clean about it, you were really honest with him or tried to justify the cheating by saying that you had a melt down or felt he wasn't coming back etc. Trying to justify it would be creating a ticking time bomb.


He probably needs to know that you understand this if you haven't told him just this - that you know you were wrong, it was an opportunity to try out someone else, it was enjoyable but nothing more. He probably needs the real truth.


Like others have asked, I am curious as to what you both did to reconcile, and cause him to move back in. You said you told him about the cheating after you did it and not while. This would have been a major stumbling block for me. So what happened and what was said ?


He clearly needs help and you need to clearly understand and (in the case of the cheating) really own your own wrong doing (which you say you do but I am not sure as you are trying to justify it).

I truly hope that you both can recover and undo what appears to be a considerable amount of rug sweeping here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> You were wrong. He was wrong.
> 
> If I am being redundant, a couple of my posts got screwed up, but I had just gone through this myself.
> 
> ...


You want to risk being banned just keep on using abusive language to people who have opinions you do not agree with.

That generally works quite well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> You want to risk being banned just keep on using abusive language to people who have opinions you do not agree with.
> 
> That generally works quite well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


PS Husband could not cope, so he ran away.

Now he is looking like running away again?

He has problems that perhaps pre-date his marriage and which need to be addressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband walked out on you 5 years ago, filed for divorce. You did nothing wrong. He needs to see a therapist to deal with HIS problem.





Plan 9 from OS said:


> He left her and then shortly after produced divorce papers. Then he played games for 6 months.





Plan 9 from OS said:


> He told he was done with her and she found solace in another. Too fast? IDK, but clearly she took him at his word at the time.


Losing a parent or any loved one is devastating and can annihilate your entire world. The pain of loss is powerful and all consuming and it can take years to work through it, the anger, the depression and heal and adjust to life again.

But..

What you had was absolutely not an affair. Sure you could have hung in there longer but it takes a lot of patience and understanding that is beyond what most people are capable of or are aware is required during this period. The bereaved may react in a number of ways and behave erractically and emotionally for months at a time.

He walked out and he filed for divorce and meant it. So no, you were not unfaithful to him.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Glad that you beat the cancer scare.

Sorry about all the hurt in your family.

How are the kids doing? How are they handling this? 

I do hope you and your family get some help. You and your family are in some deep pain. It is hard to work thru these problems by yourself.

However, some counseling I have had has helped and some has hurt. You do need to find the right counselor.

See if you and your H can take walks together. The exercise does help. There are other kinds of exercise activities, but the exercise can help.

I do not want to get into the male/female fight. No one is perfect and some bad choices were made. In your present and future, new good memories can help. It will take time for both of you to get over the pain. 

Hope you and your family can do some good things together and enjoy that you have beat the cancer. Time to do some things to make good memories before the kids are out of the house. 

Hope you find some peace.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

When we split up 5 yrs ago, he repeatedly said he was done, that he wasn't happy and hadn't been for a while. We barely spoke for a month. At that point he called me and said he was confused, his world was spinning and he had no idea what he wanted. We sat and talked and discussed what we needed from each other in order to work on things. So for the next 5 mths of us "working on things" he would come here when he felt like it, didn't sleep here and didn't move home. To me, I felt like yes part of him wanted his family but part of him reallly didnt'. So yes I did see this other guy a few times during that time. It wasn't a serious thing and it happened a handful of times. I think i was hurt, confused and honestly it was a knee jerk reaction to what my husband was doing and how he was making me feel. He suspected things were going on with this guy adn yes, toward the end of us being separated I told him all. He was hurt and sad but we seemed to have moved beyond it. In the four plus years since all this we have worked hard to be more open, talk more, spend more quality time together. Now, for some reason this whole "affair" is fresh in his head and he's now feeling the anger he should have felt 4 1/2 yrs ago. In the past few years we have grown so strong and he acknowleges that but he can't figure otu what to do with this anger adn he knows it's crazy to be feeling it now and can't explain why he is.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You did not have an affair. You were not unfaithful to your husband, except that retroactively you feel guilty because your bond is strong. Why would a man who has separated and filed for divorce have right to decide whether his stbx dates?

Stop feeling guilty for doing something wrong. Forgive yourself to start.

Ask your husband to explain how he feels. Listen. Give him physical reassurance. Answer his questions. Do not give him details about sex that will bother him. Tell him that he is your husband and you are his wife and that you expect to spend the rest of your lives together.

Who does the cooking in your home? Doesn't matter. Ask him to sit in the kitchen and watch you while you cook his favorite meal. Tell him how you enjoy doing it.

You've been through a lot together. You can overcome his anger.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

*OP, I wrote the following before your last post*



sdcp16 said:


> *We were separated for 6 mths and worked hard to be stronger then ever. * During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back. Wanted a divorce, didnt'. Two weeks after he moved out, he got divorce papers & moved out all his stuff.!


OP, I’m not saying that you did anything wrong. I’m trying to help you understand your husband.

He didn’t leave you for another woman but moved in with his mom who had cancer. Did he see the kids and financially support you during those six months? How much of those six months was devoted to being “stronger than ever” and how much was devoted to getting a divorce. 

Everyone is saying that he “filed.” Did he actually go to the trouble and expense of filing or just print from papers from the web? What was your husband’s understanding about dating during this time? Did he know you were dating at the time you were? I know that would help snap me out of it if I knew my wife was going to start dating.

I think that the idea of seeing other people never entered your husband’s mind. That’s why his reaction was “hurt” when he found out you did. In a way it’s worse for your husband. In his mind you have him on a technically and he had no right to complain. 

In his mind you couldn’t wait to take advantage of a window of opportunity to get some strange. At the time you had reconciled and he was all set to move back in. Then you hit him with the news (which was commendable on your part). He was hurt but put one foot in front or the other and stayed on the course he had decided to take. Now he feels that he can express his true feelings. 

Seeing the OM around town is bad. Your husband thinks that the OM got your goodies for free and feels inferior when he sees him.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

He never actually filed. He went and got papers and gave me my side of them to fill out. He also signed us both up and paid for classes we would have to take before we could get a divorce. I absolutely admit what I did was wrong. Again, I think it was a combo of feeling thrown away, his indecisiveness, and quite honestly I felt like crap. It was a bad choice I made. I have regretted my behavior and have repeatedly told him so. During our split, he saw our kids a couple times and still paid our mortgage. The issue now is since this anger is so raw, he can't see past it. He feels like the affair just happened and he's hurt and angry. I am trying to be understanding of his feelings. But I can't handle another 6 mth or more split. I'm just feeling really lost on how to help him so we can continue our life. I want to celebrate life now that cancer is over and live everyday to its fullest. And now I'm back almost 5 yrs ago rehashing a terrible time in our marriage


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

He hasn't dealt with his demons very well on his own. Is he willing to seek therapy to address his unresolved issues?


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I started seeing a therapist two weeks ago. Initially he said no because he doesnt' feel like a stranger can get into his head. Now he's saying maybe. I'll take that for now!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

sdcp

Where is your H staying right now?

Did you ever respond in ager to him walking out the first time?

Did you show him any emotion when he walked out the 2nd time?

And have you ever thought of fighting for him/your marriage by going to him and dragging his ass home?

Maybe just maybe he is looking for you to show him that you will fight for him? That you will fight for your marriage?

He stuck by you during your fight with cancer did he not?

Think about it.

HM


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> but now looking back he sees she just quit on him when he was in the most difficult period of his life.
> 
> I think she would help with the healing immensely if she was to apologize for failing him when she should have stood by him the most.


Lets see, she said he;

_During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back. 

Wanted a divorce, didnt'. 

Two weeks after he moved out, he got divorce papers & moved out all his stuff.

my husband starts telling me he's not sure how he feels anymore, etc. (sounds similar to the old ILYBINILWY speech)

now we're separated again and he's a mess!
_

I sure wish my daughter would have met a tower of strength and one as dedicated to his marriage as this cat. I agree with women folk here. I think some of ya'll would be singing a different tune if the shoe were on a different foot. 
I've got some advise for him. He created problem by caving in where most men have faced (me included) or will face similar situations, convinced himself he'd be better of jettisoning his wife and marriage and made his woman feel he no longer wanted her. It backfired on him. He needs to admit his screw up, get off the pity-pot and stay in the marriage or decide that overplaying his hand caused him to lose more than he can live with and get the hell once and for all. 
Sdcp16 needs to realize that, although she may have been a little quick on the gun getting back out there when her husband dumped her and the marriage, she responded with the frame of mind she was in at the time, how she perceived the situation at the time and maybe in a bit of survival mode. Anyway you cut it, her husband set the wheels in motion that resulted in the wreck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Again. The affair was rug swept and the damage that was done was never repaired. If you want your marriage to survive, you are going to have to treat this like it just happened. I know you probably don't want to but if you love your H, want your marriage to heal and regret having sex with OM while still talking with your H about reconciliation, then you have to pull up your panties and dig in. I believe you do want to help him and sincerely regret your actions BTW.

A quick read that has some very helpful tips is "How to help your spouse heal from your affair." By Linda J. MacDonald.

It is available in audio format. Would you be willing to get it and use the advice? It might just do the trick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

Right now he's staying at a friends house. I flipped out the first time he walked out! I was pissed and hurt! But after a couple weeks of him repeatedly telling me he didnt' want to be married, I had to try to regroup and be strong. This time around, I flipped out even more because things have been so good and I had no idea what was going on. I have begged him to come home. I have repeatedly asked him to work on this with me, to talkto me and move forward with me. I have cried/begged as much as I can. He keeps saying he can't see past his anger. He wont' come home. I have owned what I did 5 yrs ago, apologized profusely, regret it, and would never ever do anything like that again. He knows the whole truth and has for years. I'm not sure what else I can do


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your husband's way of dealing with stress is to throw his marriage into disarray. This is his quality and not yours. He did it 5 years ago and he's' doing it now. Your "affair" is just a channel. 

The way to fix this is for him to get individual counseling. Whether he can or will do this is not something you can control. I would probably tell him that he needs to get his head right and seek counseling or you will be getting a divorce.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hang tough and give him space while being supportive when you can. Him saying he might do therapy or counseling is a good sign.

Be patient and breathe slowly. I know life must really hurt right now but stay calm. Rash decisions 5 years ago helped to cause this destruction. Calmness is needed now. You can go to counseling or therapy on your own to start and show your serious about saving your marriage. Make sure they have experience with infidelity and knowing how to treat PTSD is definitely a bonus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This time YOU file the divorce papers. And see if it wakes him up.

Was he a little Prince at home? Spoiled a bit, perhaps?

Because something has messed up his ability to cope with bad situations.

Either that or he is the kind of person who likes to make a drama out of a crisis?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> I'm not sure what else I can do


SD my girl, I'll tell you the same thing I tell the guys. Whether he stays depends on how he feels about you; not how much you need him, love him, etc. You're in a situation, and have been for a while, yoked to a man that can't handle and has a low threshold for pressure and goes running for the woods anytime it gets to be a little much. Based on his history, you may need to decide just how much more time, measured in years, you want to spend his behavior and the insecurity he's making you feel.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This time YOU file the divorce papers. And see if it wakes him up.
> 
> Was he a little Prince at home? Spoiled a bit, perhaps?
> 
> ...


This is really confusing. He went through severe trauma 5 years ago, had a crisis where he separated and he and OP worked it out only for him to find out there was another man.involved. He still works on it and sticks through it helping her through her cancer scare and now he is apparently dealing with the anger phase because it never was dealt with in the first place.

He doesn't come off as spoiled at all but as a caring but damaged man.

He hasn't tried to have sex with anyone else through all.of this. He simply doesn't know how to heal from his anger or even why it is hitting him now. He probably moved to keep from blowing up.in front of his family and logically, he knows his wife doesn't deserve it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Is it possible he's just using your fling with that guy as an excuse to walk again???


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I will say it again. He flipped for very justifiable reasons - a dad dying, a mother getting cancer and a lost job - added to his feeling that your marriage wasn't working out.

He separated and continued to support the family and work on his demons. You were supposed to do the same. Part of his flipping was simply waving a threat of divorce at you (he did not file as I suspected). You "needed" to sleep with someone you didn't care about to "cope".

Absolutely, you were wrong and unfaithful! And you (and he) didn't deal with the cheating properly - rug swept it. And it has come back to bite you.

You are about to do the same thing all over again if you don't treat this like a proper affair and start helping him to heal.

Take Conan's advice - he seems to be the only other person here who sees this as clearly as I do.

Your "flipping" out was caused by what - his grief and problems ?!?

It is very clear to me that he expected support and an equal effort to try and work things out - not sleeping with other men was a given.

Be very careful here as I expect he will definitely walk away this time - infidelity can be as bad as a parent dying for some.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Also just wanted to say that I went through something *very very similar* and when my dad died I was ready to walk away from the world, and almost had to drop out of uni because I couldn't afford it anymore - and my then fiancé (now my wife) was confused at my behaviour. 

Our relationship after having been together for 4 years at the time, was severely damaged by her reaction to my behaviour. Not once did I think of cheating and yes, I threatened to leave several times but we agreed to work on it. I moved out and did just that.

She went on holiday with scummy friends and cheated. Blamed me and my behaviour.

But then she put in a super human effort and we got married.

So I can hand on heart say that I do identify with a lot of what you have said.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

How could anyone respect a partner who decided to run away from his/her spouse and children because he/she could not handle the stress? Many of us have had loved ones pass away (I had 2 grandparents who were like extended parents plus my father) die along with job stresses that entailed anything from wondering if I'll still have a job to doing something I really did not like and also traveling more than I wanted to. I also had to deal with spotty finances from time to time and try to live on $20 after all the bills and obligations were budgeted for. There was also a time where I had high debts that ate into our money and we wondered if we'd ever see daylight. I also have a son who is on the spectrum. 

The point is - we ALL have a lot of stress, pain and messy situations to deal with. It's called life! Never once did I think that I should run away from my wife and kids. Never! They help me through all of these messes I have in my life. My messes are my wife's messes and her messes are mine. I truly believe that love grows stronger as you live through difficulties in life. It has between my wife and I. I see a lot of people writing about how "yeah, the husband shouldn't have ran away, printed divorce papers up, moved all his stuff out of the house, ask you to fill your portion of the divorce papers out and tell your wife and family you no longer want them... But you cheated!" What a load of bunk! Of course, if the sexes were reversed I have no doubt that the "trade her in for a hotter model" crowd would be cheering the fact the "abandoned H" got over the loss so quickly and moved on.

Why are some people linking the abandonment and the caretaker role the H later played when the OP had cancer? Isn't the abandonment and the cancer treatments separated by 4 years?People are linking these 2 and stating the H needs to be evaluated based on these acts as if they're intertwined, but then turn around and won't link her sleeping with the OM to the abandonment? This is backwards thinking. In a marriage, one spouse will need more attention than the other. One will likely get sick while the other has to be a caretaker. This is a fact of life and it comes with the territory when it comes to marriage.

I may be wired differently than most - and I'll admit that. But can someone explain to me why it's so damn admirable that the H stuck around to care for his wife who was dealing with cancer ? This is what marriage is SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE. If my wife has cancer, I will stick by her and give her the best care I could . I would never consider leaving her because she got cancer. WTF people? Does so many people have such a cynical view of marriage that people need to be rewarded for doing the things they are supposed to be doing in a marriage? I'm not talking about acknowledgements here because we all need affirmation from our spouses. But that's not the same as thinking that the OP "owes" her H because he stuck by her when she got cancer.

Sorry, I'm getting off the soapbox now.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

During your separation he didn't filed for D, so it was only a separation and you were not allowed to see other person, it makes a cheating.

Then, why he is angry now, this is very certain in every R cases after infidelity if they didnt address the cheating properly. When he found out you have been cheating as the usual response of BS, he wanted to reclaim his spouse home and children. He didnt want OM playing dad to his children. so he came back. 

He may not have expressed his anger in the fear of being replaced by OM. As he didnt dealt with the A as he wanted it to be, he may have developed anger and resentments over time which is exploding now.

Be supportive of him, get yourself and him into IC and MC. show empathy and support. Dont get defensive, be honest. This anger phase may last for some time but it will fade over time, if you do the right thing.

As you had a good relationship before his anger phase, you can have the same if both of you address this together as a team, with good IC and MC (who is good in dealing with infidelity). so this phase of anger is not unusual or misdirected.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I have seen some stupids comments about sexism in many threads. Simply arguing on threads if it was male you will ask him to stick it in the....., if its a female you will ask her to stic it .....

Whether male or female, cheaters are cheaters, they came from same place, learned the same cheaters hand book, so they should be dealt with same standards.

Please stop arguing in about sex........


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

sdcp16 said:


> So for the next 5 mths of us "working on things" he would come here when he felt like it, didn't sleep here and didn't move home. To me, I felt like yes part of him wanted his family but part of him reallly didnt'. So yes I did see this other guy a few times during that time. It wasn't a serious thing and it happened a handful of times. I think i was hurt, confused and honestly it was a knee jerk reaction to what my husband was doing and how he was making me feel. He suspected things were going on with this guy adn yes, toward the end of us being separated I told him all.


I guess I must have misunderstood what went on from your previous posts. If you saw your lover while you and your husband were working on things and you were being secretive and kept it hidden from him then I would consider that adultery.




sdcp16 said:


> Keep in mind we have two kids who are now 18 and 16. So he up and left me, our kids and our home





sdcp16 said:


> So for the next 5 mths of us "working on things" he would come here when he felt like it, didn't sleep here and didn't move home.





sdcp16 said:


> He actually stayed at his moms house during our separation


So during the separation he didn't really just up and leave, he went to take care of his mom who had cancer.




sdcp16 said:


> 5 yrs ago, a lot of things went on in our lives...husbands dad died, mom found out she had cancer, husbands job was on the line and he kindof snapped





sdcp16 said:


> Then he played games for 6 months


I wouldn't say he was playing games. His world was falling apart. He was emotional, grieving, confused and spiralling from all that was happening in his life then.




sdcp16 said:


> I handled things wrong when we split up before....I felt like he was throwing me away and reacted bad!


Many do. Most people do not have the capacity for the empathy and understanding needed to be patient and bear through the pain, anger and confusion someone goes through with grief and various hardships.




sdcp16 said:


> Now, for some reason this whole "affair" is fresh in his head and he's now feeling the anger he should have felt 4 1/2 yrs ago.


It's not for 'some reason'. It takes years for one to work through grief. Four and a half years ago he was still dealing with the loss of his dad, processing his mom's cancer diagnosis with the fear of losing her too, then the possibility of losing you due to your affair and then your cancer diagnosis afterwards. He didn't have the emotional surplus to process your affair until now.




sdcp16 said:


> I am trying to be understanding of his feelings. But I can't handle another 6 mth or more split.


You say you want to be understanding and help him but you seem more concerned with yourself and how all of this affects you. In your writing about your husband losing his dad, his mom's cancer diagnosis and his employment issues you only mention how you felt, what you were going through and how your husband wasn't there for you. You never once mentioned your husband's emotional state or caring and being there for him.




sdcp16 said:


> Part of me felt like as much as I wanted my marriage, that maybe I needed to move on.


To love and to cherish for better or worse is easy enough to declare, but after months or even weeks of hardhips, adversities and problems, that love many claim to have pales in comparison to their wants and desires, their impatience and self-interests win out and that love is sidelined.

If you don't love your husband enough to be patient and see him through the fallout of your affair then do yourselves both a favour and end the marriage.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Have you ever considered that you may indeed be better off without this guy who seems like an emotional train wreck?

I say flip the script.

Serve him with divorce papers and see if that gives him some 'clarity'.

Else, why specifically do you want to jump through these hoops to preserve this marriage, with this man?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sdcp16 said:


> I've beat it and am finally recouping! three weeks ago, my husband starts telling me he's not sure how he feels anymore, etc. Apparently the "affair" as he calls it that I had during our separation almost 5 yrs ago is haunting him. He never really dealt with it at the time and now the anger has hit him. I'm told this does happen. How can I help him? Things have been awesome with us since we got back together and now we're separated again and he's a mess!


I'm glad you're better.

You realize, right, that he might be using what YOU did as an excuse for HIM to either cheat on you or to leave you.

This isn't about what you did. It just keeps him from looking bad.

Have you snooped?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sdcp16 said:


> I told my husband all about what I'd done 5 years ago when we were getting back together.


Did you tell your husband about the guy BEFORE or AFTER you two had decided to get back together?

ETA:
Ah, got it.


> He suspected things were going on with this guy and yes, toward the end of us being separated I told him all.


So he found out that you WOULD and COULD choose someone else, so he decided to come home.

That's what I thought.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

OP, you did NOT have an affair, please stop letting your husband manipulate you into thinking you did. You were separated and he was going to divorce you. He has zero right to be upset with what you did at that point, and stop letting people here guilt you into thinking you had an affair!! Your husband is an abuser - he manipulates you by leaving and threatening divorce. You are married to a child who never developed healthy coping mechanisms. His coping mechanism is to run away like a child instead of facing things like a man. You don't have to answer this publicly, but think about it - why have you not left him? I know you love him and blah blah blah, but how can you stand to be manipulated so easily by him? Please don't listen to those drumming that you had an affair - they see the world as very black and white and when something doesn't fit into their schema, they try to make it fit any way they can. 

It's not your job or responsibility to fix your husband's abusive behavior - it's his. It's time he grows up and stops acting like a child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

OP, I think your options are limited with regards to saving your marriage. He's made his decision on how he wants to deal with _his_ problem. A unilateral decision to end the relationship by walking away from the marriage......for the second time. My advise is to read some of the threads over on Considering Separation and Going Through Divorce that discuss dealing with Walk Away Wives. Replace wife with husband and you have your situation. 

I would strongly discourage you from chasing after your husband. As his wife and life partner, he is completely wrong for treating you and your marriage like a disposable afterthought when things don't go his way. Calling it quits when life throws us curve balls is weak. He needs to understand that you won't be there, waiting in the wings, every time he has a melt down. 

I would encourage you to help him seek out independent counseling if he so chooses. He desperately needs to learn the coping mechanisms necessary for dealing with life stress. 

I would also encourage you to look into implementing elements of the 180 in your life. Become the best person you can be regardless of the status of your relationship with your husband. If he decides he's out, then you'll still come out on top.

Best of luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Graywolf2 said:


> He probably thought I lived up to my end of the bargain (in sickness and in health) and *she didn’t *(to forsake all others).


AFTER he abandoned her.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> I told my husband all about what I'd done 5 years ago when we were getting back together. At the time he seemed more hurt then angry. Now the anger is coming out like it all just happened!


That's how it works. Its hurt, initially, and eventually, for most of us guys, comes the anger. 

You asked what can you do. Honestly, IMO....nothing. Now it all depends on the kind of guy he is, but so far, he seems a lot like me and many other men. Once their wives/girlfriends have sex with someone else while still in a relationship or still married, we are never completely the same again and will never look at you the same ever again. Again note, I said for most of us guys, not all.

And here it is 5 years later and he is angry and cannot get past it. It may be you have to take the initiative for him and file for divorce.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> Long story short but we've been together 26 yrs, married over 20...high school sweethearts. 5 yrs ago, a lot of things went on in our lives...husbands dad died, mom found out she had cancer, husbands job was on the line and he kindof snapped...threw his hands up and walked out on me. Now our marriage wasn't perfect but not that bad!


Something is missing here. Why did he walk out on you? I can't imagine wanting to divorce just because things that have nothing to do with the marriage are bad.

What was the reason he left?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

so you separated, not clear who served who, were working things, then OP had an affair. My guess is the OP's H felt you abandoned him when his world went to heck, then the OP has an affair, then they get back togehter, he helps her through thick and thin. Was the OP having an affair while they were trying to work stuff out?

My guess is, if I were in his shoes, I would feel very slighted by the OP and her actions.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> What was the reason he left?


Because of course she must have driven him away...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Something in the milk ain't clean...

I don't trust the behavior of your husband at all.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

how can this not be considered an affair is beyond me. No one ever filed and she was with the OM while they were working on things. I don't care if switch sexes, it still is an affair. Especially if he didn't know about the OM, while they were trying to R.

To many posters on this thread - he goes through incredible strain - father dies, mother gets cancer and then loses his job. How in the world is this all his fault and he is abandoning his life. He is not innocent, but he is not scum of the earth either. He needed help and never go it. From his POV, he probably felt like the OP abandoned him at his darkest hour. Not that that is correct, but opinions count here.

They both need a lot of counciling


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

naiveonedave said:


> so you separated, not clear who served who, were working things, then OP had an affair. My guess is the OP's H felt you abandoned him when his world went to heck, then the OP has an affair, then they get back togehter, he helps her through thick and thin. Was the OP having an affair while they were trying to work stuff out?
> 
> My guess is, if I were in his shoes, I would feel very slighted by the OP and her actions.


Not clear as in, you don't believe her?

His dad passed, his mom was diagnosed with cancer, and he feared for his job. He flaked, and left ... and then served her with divorce papers.

I wouldn't say they were 'working' on the marriage so much as he was deciding whether to sh!t or get off the pot.

Unclear how much work they have done since. But ... once again, people tend to focus on their pain point here.

The betrayed men are focused on why the husband left and what she's doing to help HIM.

Others ... are focused on why this cat is freaking out about it now, relatively out of the blue, and once again, he has ditched his family, and claims he can't deal with his anger.

Arguing about whether or not her relationship while separated, was or wasn't an affair appears to be relatively moot, given the circumstances.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> how can this not be considered an affair is beyond me. No one ever filed and she was with the OM while they were working on things.


No, she was abandoned and separated and told he didn't want to be married to her any more when she went out with the other guy. Then her husband had doubts and said I don't know what I want. So they started talking again - while still living apart. While she was still seeing the other guy. And then she told him about the other guy. And then he said he wanted to come home. So she stopped seeing the other guy.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I would recommend that some details about the relationship post first separation, and during the cancer scare would be relevant and helpful in filling in the blanks.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I suggest you seek help for yourself and detach. He flip-flop in between leaving you and wanting to be with you. He left the children too. My guess is that he sensed you moving on and I think he probably knew there was a chance of you finding someone else, so he decided to come back.

My guess here is if you sent him divorce papers and started dating again, he would want to work on the marriage. My reasoning is, when he was flip-flopping between leaving you or deciding to stay,he thought you would wait for him till he made a decision. When you were getting some of your needs met elsewhere, you probably didn't pursue him like you once did. You probably did not try and beg him to come back as you once did. Just an educated guess. Fact is he is replaceable as a spouse, not a person. He only decided to come back when he probably sense that he could lose you and the family.

When he came back, you hyper bonded, and that attachment was strong enough for him to help support you when you had cancer. Over the years, the bond has faded and his hormones are probably reduced to a normal level again. He cannot get over the anger and so he abandons you again.

If you were giving him divorce papers, and said you had enough. That you will start dating again, he will try and hook you back. It is a biological response, and then you will hyper bond again.

You really cannot help him. It is his issue to work on. You had to work on the anger of his abandonment on your own. He did not stop you from feeling anger, you decided to move on from it. Your response was anger and, he left you confused. You really had no clue whether he would leave or go. If you kept probably begging him, he would of ran off again. The only reason why he stuck around was the huge amount of oxytocin that was released when the two of you bonded again.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

turnera said:


> No, she was abandoned and separated and told he didn't want to be married to her any more when she went out with the other guy. Then her husband had doubts and said I don't know what I want. So they started talking again - while still living apart. While she was still seeing the other guy. And then she told him about the other guy. And then he said he wanted to come home. So she stopped seeing the other guy.


He didn't serve her with papers, he gave her a copy of the default forms to fill out, big difference. IN her own words they were working on things while she was dating the OM.

Not saying he has no fault in this, but to say this is not adultery / infidelity is ludicrous.

he has some real issues that he needs to deal with, but with the stress he was under, he should get some sympathy. Especially when you only hear the OP side of things. Hell, he probably felt like she gave him no choice but to bail. There is a lot messed up here, neither the OP or her H are saints.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> He didn't serve her with papers, he gave her a copy of the default forms to fill out, big difference. IN her own words they were working on things while she was dating the OM.


Not a big difference - he TOLD HER to divorce and signed her up for divorce classes. And she continued seeing the other guy BEFORE he moved back home, BEFORE he said he wanted to come back. They were DISCUSSING things, 'working on things' but he wasn't saying he was coming home. Once he decided to commit to the marriage and he came back home, she stopped seeing the other guy.

I would have done the same thing if my H abandoned us. I wouldn't have given up some other guy just because my H now said he was reconsidering. I would have said 'really? and I'm just supposed to drop everything and wait for you to decide you want us back? Not happening.'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> Hell, he probably felt like *she gave him no choice but to bail*. There is a lot messed up here, neither the OP or her H are saints.


Huh? What did SHE do? He had issues, there is no mention of her giving him a hard time or not being supportive or ANYTHING that suggests she drove him away.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

who left who again?7!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OP, as for what you can do, a few things: be patient and supportive in his attempt to work through it. He's having a midlife crisis and only he can figure out if he has to 'start a new life' or work on the one he has.

You've apologized enough. WAY more than you should have, IMO. Go to therapy with him if he wants to hash out the details of why/when/where so he can 'decide' if you're some sort of sl*t in his mind, but aside from that, stop apologizing.

Accept that he came back because you scared him, you let him see you COULD be with someone else if he was going to abandon you. Because of that, he may not have ever really wanted to come home, he may have just been re-claiming his property, and now, as Mr. Fisty says, the PEA chemicals have worn off and he's left with his decision.

Work on you in therapy and in the rest of your life. Don't become so dependent on him that you make wrong choices. Be supportive of him, allow him to make his own decisions, don't beg any more, and respect yourself so he will see how to do it.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sounds to me like he has periodic bouts of depression.

Some antidepressants may be the key to resolve his anger and obsessive thoughts.


I know he is reluctant to marriage counseling. Would be opposed to seeing his GP for some trial antidepressants?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because of course she must have driven him away...


No. I'm saying that deaths in the family, ill family members, etc are generally not reasons to say "F it, I don't want to be married". Note I said generally.

Divorces typically happen for a reason, whether its one spouse or both spouses that make one want to leave.

I'm thinking there has to be a reason. It could be on him, it could be on her, or both of them. Hell, it could be that he just decided he didn't want married life anymore, who knows. But I wouldn't ditch a perfectly good marriage because of problems or heartache that had nothing to do with the marriage.

So you can take off your defensive cloak.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Here is a guess. The pressure of still having to be a husband and father, while he had his other issue to work on, he had a meltdown and ran off to escape it all. He couldn't cope with reality. I was 15, dealing with a deceased parent, being a father figure for my brother, going to school, and nearly working full time. I didn't break because I have been through worse. Not to mention I was battling a history of abuse and anger. Life is not fair, and I had to learn to adapt to that reality. Life did not stop around me to let me try and figure things out. I had to learn as I go.

His reaction when it came to his problems was fight the issues, or run from them. He chose the latter. His issue is now his anger at her, and I would guess some anger at himself too. So once again, he runs off. She is willing to go help him through this, but he has put up a wall. Just because you have the status of marriage, when there is not at least two people fully committed, you do not have a relationship. You cannot be in a relationship of one. So what if they are married, he chose to stop being a partner. When he was flip-flopping, he was not even committed to the relationship. He stopped being a husband. Just because he holds title of a husband, it does not make him one.

Once she detaches again, she will probably be angry that he once again abandoned her, and chose not to work on the issues. He is the one choosing when he feels like being a husband, but she has to stay a wife for him until he chooses to be a husband again, how convenient for him.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

turnera said:


> Huh? What did SHE do? He had issues, there is no mention of her giving him a hard time or not being supportive or ANYTHING that suggests she drove him away.


he exhibited afight or flight response. He tried fight, then fled. In his mind (maybe), eventhough he left, he was abandoned emotionally. Then during attempted reconcilliation, she has sex with OM. He finds out about it later, when he thought they were exclusive. He is back to DDay.

The context of him leaving is vital to this story. He was broken and she knew he was broken. Without his side of the story, he likely feels like she is selfish. He helped her through cancer, she bailed on him emotionally when his world went to heck in a hand basket.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> He didn't serve her with papers, he gave her a copy of the default forms to fill out, big difference. IN her own words they were working on things while she was dating the OM.
> 
> Not saying he has no fault in this, but to say this is not adultery / infidelity is ludicrous.
> 
> he has some real issues that he needs to deal with, but with the stress he was under, he should get some sympathy. Especially when you only hear the OP side of things. Hell, he probably felt like she gave him no choice but to bail. There is a lot messed up here, *neither the OP or her H are saints.*


That's a harsh assessment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> He finds out about it later, when he thought they were exclusive. He is back to DDay.
> 
> The context of him leaving is vital to this story. He was broken and she knew he was broken. Without his side of the story, he likely feels like she is selfish. He helped her through cancer, she bailed on him emotionally when his world went to heck in a hand basket.


First, she says he already suspected she was seeing someone else when they started talking again, after a MONTH of him ignoring her. Second, according to her they were NOT exclusive, they were working through things without any decision, so it was NOT when he 'thought' they were exclusive. Third, she told him about the other guy BEFORE they decided to get back together. Fourth, how did she bail on him emotionally? By not sitting by the phone hoping he would call her and vowing to celibacy until her husband decided he wasn't going to divorce her? I went back and reread this twice to figure out where you guys are getting that she treated him badly or wasn't supportive of his issues. There IS no post that says anything of the sort. She has made NO such comment other than believing him when he said he was done with her and being hurt, abandoned, and devastated at having this dropped on her out of nowhere. 

Did she seek out another guy too soon? Maybe. But it's no different than all the guys on here who cheer other men on here to go out and sew their oats when they are abandoned so they will feel better about themselves. Why is it ok for men and not for women?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> he exhibited afight or flight response. He tried fight, then fled. In his mind (maybe), eventhough he left, he was abandoned emotionally. *Then during attempted reconcilliation, she has sex with OM. He finds out about it later, when he thought they were exclusive. He is back to DDay.*
> 
> The context of him leaving is vital to this story. He was broken and she knew he was broken. Without his side of the story, he likely feels like she is selfish. *He helped her through cancer, she bailed on him emotionally when his world went to heck in a hand basket.*


This was not a trial separation that was agreed to by both parties with a set of rules in place to abide by while both sort their feelings. The H abandoned his family. He took all of his things. He prints out divorce papers, fills out part of them and asks her to fill out her side of them. He flat out tells her that he wants a divorce. He may have had second thoughts and tried to tell her that he may have made a mistake. However, he waffled back and forth between sticking it out and divorcing. There was NO R going on. Sure she made a mistake with this other guy but it was not because she wanted to cheat on her husband. In her mind, he left. The last impression he gave her before she found solace from this OM was the marriage was over. 

Again, why are you linking the abandonment and the care he gave her while she battled cancer? That was a 4 year separation at a minimum. Also, since when did we give out bonus points for a spouse who does what most everyone else on this thread would have done if one of our spouses was dealing with cancer? On top of that you and a few other posters are twisting this into "he stayed with her when she had cancer, but she abandoned him when he was distraught with life"... WTF!?!?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

OP, perhaps on a technicality you were an adulterer, or perhaps in the mutual view your marriage at the time was literally dissolved (and only the paperwork remained).

But what happened in the past is moot because you both chose to reconcile the marriage and did so as fully informed as possible. Yes you were both in a place where making healthy decisions wasn't happening, and since then you've faced, and overcome, a lot of other adversity.

It appears now the storm is over, and so you are here wondering what the deal is. I offer three alternatives: 1) your H has now had a chance to fully assess all of this and is coming to the realization there may just be too much damage to continue trying to salvage the relationship 2) The pain of your betrayal (not excusing his own in the least) is finally catching up with him and he needs to lash out and reclaim his pride or 3) He is blind to the progress you've both made together, and is now suddenly rewriting history and blame-shifting due to an outside influence such as another woman who is showing him affection or whom he is pursuing.

If I were you I would first do some thorough checking before excluding #3 from the list. if you know for certain there is no extra-marital influence, then be patient and loyal and keep working hard to keep the lines of communication open while he processes his feelings (but do not tolerate abuse).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> He didn't serve her with papers, he gave her a copy of the default forms to fill out, big difference. IN her own words they were working on things while she was dating the OM.
> 
> Not saying he has no fault in this, but to say this is not adultery / infidelity is ludicrous.
> 
> he has some real issues that he needs to deal with, but with the stress he was under, he should get some sympathy. Especially when you only hear the OP side of things. Hell, he probably felt like she gave him no choice but to bail. There is a lot messed up here, neither the OP or her H are saints.


So, then, he didn't *really* want to divorce her? He was just playing with her mind and the minds of his own children?  :wtf:

That's some really serious allegations to be levelled against him. But sadly, I think this point is right.

In his anger at the world he lashed out at his wife and children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep. Like I said, have you snooped to see if he's got one number showing up all over his phone?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

turnera said:


> Did she seek out another guy too soon? Maybe. But it's no different than all the guys on here who cheer other men on here to go out and sew their oats when they are abandoned so they will feel better about themselves. Why is it ok for men and not for women?


Nope. I cheer another man on when he goes out and sews his oats AFTER they divorced or if the paperwork has been filed and the divorce is underway. And even then, only when they have been cheated on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*In his own mind he divorced his wife and abandoned his children.*

She saw someone else.

Well, why would her husband have any cause to be upset? 

Because remember...

*In his own mind he divorced his wife and abandoned his children.*

This could quite easily be a thread about how

*In his own mind he divorced his wife and abandoned his children.*

and how she moved on and found someone else.

But that didn't happen. Why? Because when he found that she was not a quivering jelly of a wreck pining for him at home, he suddenly revoked his mental divorce and realised he wanted her, and his children, again.

Why? Did his on the side honey tell him to go away? Or, if he didn't have any love action going on the side, was he suddenly jealous of his wife?

Either way we must remember that...

*In his own mind he divorced his wife and abandoned his children.*


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Why did he leave the first time? Why is he angry? I can't recall having seen these missing pieces. Very few people leave out of the blue (I know it happens, though).

OP, I think you have some serious choices to make - stay or file. If you choose to stay and want to help him with his anger, I think it's important that you both find and acknowledge the source of his anger.

What I get from the discussion between posters is that it would probably have been better if he had just cheated instead of leaving to take care of his mother. Much healthier coping mechanism - or is there a male/female difference as well in this aspect?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's slick...reworking this to be that he abandoned his family and started divorce...to take care of his mother.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

We are making assumptions. 

We assumed he went to his mother's house to look after her when she had cancer. He might not have looked after her, just gone to live with her.

Also, we assumed he lost his job. Did he? Not sure that's what OP said, she said his job was on the line.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh for fek's sake. Lets get it from the OP.

sdcp16, WHY did your H leave? Was it that he just couldn't take all the pressure? Was that all there was to it?

Why did he decide he didn't want to be married any longer. Was it just as simple as he couldn't take it and just wanted out having, and it didn't have anything to do with anything regarding the marriage?

Why? If he just went off the deep end because of all that was going on, well, ok. But help us understand this because the reasons as to why he left are not being stated here.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh for fek's sake. Let get it from the OP.

sdcp16, WHY did your H leave? Was it that he just couldn't take all the pressure? Was that all there was to it?


Why did he decide he didn't want to be married any longer. Was it just as simple as he couldn't take it and just wanted out having, and it didn't have anything to do with anything regarding the marriage?

Why? If he just went off the deep end because of all that was going on, well, ok. But help us understand this because the reasons as to why he left are not being stated here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Oh for fek's sake. Let get it from the OP.
> 
> sdcp16, WHY did your H leave? Was it that he just couldn't take all the pressure? Was that all there was to it?
> 
> ...


Actually, sdcp16 can't answer that question.

She might assume she knows why he abandoned her and their children, he might, in fact, have told her some reason or excuse, but the only person who really knows is her husband.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Actually, sdcp16 can't answer that question.
> 
> She might assume she knows why he abandoned her and their children, he might, in fact, have told her some reason or excuse, but the only person who really knows is her husband.


If that's the case, we can then dispense with all the speculation of why he left then, can't we?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

vellocet said:


> If that's the case, we can then dispense with all the speculation of why he left then, can't we?


Uhhh, how about No?

Why would no work in this context?

Because by using the speculation we can help the abandoned wife and mother explore possible reasons as to why he chose to abandon his wife and children and then suddenly say: "Divorce? Who? Me? As if!"

Speculation has worked very well in a number of cases. I can think of at least one case when a loyal husband tossed out a throwaway line, which was pounced on and speculated about.

And the speculations caused the husband to be very vigilant and to realise his wife and his best friend had been cheating on him for years.

But maybe you are right. Maybe nobody should ever speculate on anything at TAM?


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

He left the first time I think because of all the pressure....his Dad has just died. He mom had found out she had cancer and hsi job was on the line. Things with us hadn't been great....no fighting but we had let life get in the way of us...working, taking care of kids and werent' doing much together. Let this be known also, he DID NOT leave me to go stay with his mom and care for her....he wound up moving in there because he had nowhere else to go....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What matters here is how to help the OP help her husband, AND herself. We've torn this to shreds. Let's just get back to her question.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> He left the first time I think because of all the pressure....his Dad has just died. He mom had found out she had cancer and hsi job was on the line. Things with us hadn't been great....no fighting but we had let life get in the way of us...working, taking care of kids and werent' doing much together. Let this be known also, he DID NOT leave me to go stay with his mom and care for her....he wound up moving in there because he had nowhere else to go....


In view of all that, do you rule out depression as a very powerful factor in his behavior?


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank you...turnera....I need help to help him! Again, we have been through a lot...I told him the truth about all this stuff 5 years ago so it's not like he's learned something new. We worked hard the last 5 yrs to stay connected, talk, spend time together, etc and when cancer hit last year, we went through it together....now this "affair" is coming back to haunt us. he says he can't explain why it's now hitting him and he knows it makes no sense. I need help on how to help him work through it! I know he loves me and i know part of him wishes his anger would disappear and we could be normal again!


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

sdcp16 you need to take a stance and inform your husband that you'd be willing to support his recovery, but that he must be willing to go to a therapist of his choosing and be committed to healing himself for his own well being. Consider making it a deal breaker and if he waffles then consider filing for divorce.

It's no sin being sick - physically, mentally or emotionally - but it is a sin to recognize his sickness and do absolutely nothing about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, stay in therapy. He needs it, you need it. IC as well as MC.

Start a once-a-week state of the marriage meeting. Like on Sunday night, 30 minutes. Each of you gets to talk about how things are going, what you're feeling, what you'd like the other to know. Keep it safe - NO blaming, NO anger. Walk away if that happens and regroup later when you can learn to control your emotions. Use a Talking Stick if you have to, to stop from interrupting each other.

Buy His Needs Her Needs and start reading it together, every night, before bed, a little at a time. It will be an eye opener; it's the best book I've ever read for explaining how marriages work and how they fail.

Answer any and all questions about the guy you were seeing when you were separated - honestly, without emotion, NO lying just to spare his feelings. Let him see where you were coming from. He's going to have to see it in the context of what YOU were going through at the time, and you're going to have to see it in the context of how proprietary men are about sex.

After you finish HNHN, print out the Love Buster questionnaire, there's one for each of you. Fill it out and share the info. Learn how you LB him (do things that make him unhappy) and let him learn how he LBs you. Vow to each other to REMOVE those habits from your lives. Take about 3 months of solid attention on removing those habits from your lives; discuss it in your weekly meeting, see how it's progressing.

Once you've gotten that under control, then fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Learn EXACTLY how to meet each other's needs; we're all different, so pay close attention. If one of his is admiration, make sure you find ways to show you admire him. If one of yours is touch, make sure you show him how to touch you to help you feel loved. And so on.

If you do all these things, you two should be in great shape in six months' time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How about that book OP? It is short and sweet and only requires your participation.

Therapy is still an excellent idea if he agrees to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Once you're helping your H with his anger, hopefully he can get through it, turnera just gave a good list.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Not clear as in, you don't believe her?
> 
> His dad passed, his mom was diagnosed with cancer, and he feared for his job. He flaked, and left ... *and then served her with divorce papers.*
> 
> ...



He did not serve her with divorce papers (as OP has confirmed). He threatened divorce in much the same vein as the rest of his "flake out".

And again according to OP they were meant to be working on things. Somebody really needs to define "separation" as in did they agree they could see/date/sleep with others.

They were still legally married - and do we not advise everyone to not sleep with others while still married - that the right thing to do is get divorced first - and even then take some time to cool off before jumping into another relationship.

Here is the real issue now: she did not tell him about the affair, he found out and then she came clean. His big mistake at that time was not dealing with it properly. And of course the anger has now hit him. 

Sure he maybe a flaky person - and if he is, then the OP can forget about the "in sickness and in health" bit and divorce him by all means. But the OP did cheat and has not in the slightest taken on real responsibility for her actions. All we have are her "words". I don't think she is capable of sustaining a relationship with him anymore and really wants out.

He seems to have accepted he had issues and still needs to deal with them. I think he should have not come back as quickly as he did and should have got help for himself (not for the marriage - because while there was another man around, no amount of counselling would help with that).

I am sensing that yes he is emotionally unstable and also that the OP isn't far off this in the sense that she is prone to cheat the minute things get really difficult.

So pretty fvcked up all round!

As for abandonment (if that is what he did is being called), I am hoping that we are not saying that the way to deal with it is to go have cheap meaningless sex with someone you are not particularly attracted to.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

sdcp16 sometimes a little tough love with the ones we love is necessary.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> How did your affair go down? Two weeks after 20 years and your having sex with another man?
> 
> How did your H find out? Did you bring OM into your marital bed?
> 
> ...


DUDE, slow your roll and realize that she didn't cheat no matter how much you stomp your feet about it, pal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> DUDE, slow your roll and realize that she didn't cheat no matter how much you stomp your feet about it, pal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No she just needed some "stress relief" with someone she was not emotionally attached to after 20 years of putting up with hell and his subsequent abandonment !!!! Also chose not to mention this "stress relief" until he found out.

Really???


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> DUDE, slow your roll and realize that she didn't cheat no matter how much you stomp your feet about it, pal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not stomping at all but listening to her and going off what she is saying and answering the best I can based on what she is asking for.

Both her and her husband believe she had an affair and her H is apparently going through anger phase. Whether or not she had an affair has already been worked out between them. They need help on how to deal from this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> Here is the real issue now: she did not tell him about the affair, he found out and then she came clean


No,


> He suspected things were going on with this guy and yes, toward the end of us being separated I told him all.


And 



> This other guy was out of the picture once my husband & I got back together


 She wasn't hiding it from him, she didn't share what she was doing WHILE THEY WERE SEPARATED and even BEFORE they decided to reconcile, she told him what she'd been doing. Yet it still didn't sit well, so she has apologized what sounds like a FAIR amount of times. He knew going into R that she had gone to another man and he still chose to R. 

Let's help BOTH of them deal with what they did, and stop bashing the woman, ok?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

P51Geo1980 said:


> DUDE, slow your roll and realize that she didn't cheat no matter how much you stomp your feet about it, pal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


they were still legally married = adultery = cheating

if she wanted to get l*id, she should have formalized the D, or given her H noticed that separated = dating others.

Same if you switched roles, btw.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> No,
> 
> 
> And
> ...




if we could add stop blaming the man for how he feels about it as well that would be good as well. Both do need help

OP

It seems your husband has a lot of problems processing stress and emotions. Seems in times of high stress he maybe won't communicate or conceals his pain? 5 years for him to finally say he was angered by what happened when separated? No way I could wait that long. He needs counseling. Probably both IC and MC with you. 20 years of marriage is a long time and no doubt some good times in there as well. This is going to take work form both of you but he is going to HAVE to want this as badly as you. Does he? If not you might be the one to have to let this go.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Debating amongst ourselves about whether she had an affair or not is not going to solve the question the OP titled her thread "Hot to help my husbands anger". So aside from therapy, what else can she do to help her husband?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Uhhh, how about No?
> 
> Why would no work in this context?
> 
> ...


Nope, speculation is just fine. But if its ok to speculate as to his reasons for leaving on one side of the coin, then we can speculate his reasons on the other side.

And if we can speculate, so can she. She CAN tell us why she thinks he left.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I do agree with Turnera and Conan who both seem to be saying the same thing (mostly).

At this stage we should be helping them both IF she really wants to get back together with her husband and fix the marriage (there seems to be some doubt lurking in her mind, but I could be misreading this).

And all I was trying to do was empathise with him to get a better understanding of why he is now acting this way.

I do understand her saying how she felt at the time and lets just say she opted for the wrong choice of action (as it didn't appear to really help her).

What needs to be understood after she empathises with his current anger is whether he is ready to receive help for it or not. Maybe he should be sent here to vent and possibly get some help. It might be more acceptable to him.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I absolutely positively want my marriage!!! I made a huge mistake 5 years ago during a really tough time. He had walked out on me, wouldn't talk to me for days on end and repeatedly told me he was done. I honestly felt thrown away. I never ever should have been with another guy. It was stupid and I regret it. I am the one who first told my husband I had gone out with this other guy Of course it was tomake him jealous! But we stayed separated. I waited 4 more months before seeing this guy again.....so at that point my husband had been gone for 5 months. I had begged him to come home and we would take one step forward, two steps back. Again, I handled things wrong! I just hate that 5 years later we are dealing with this!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> The guy who posted this and the people who liked this should look at themselves . Maybe some new posters, but veteran posters like Elegirl, jld and MattMatt ?
> 
> He is not right and OP did not have an affair. But calling him a little b*tch ?


When a man abandons his wife and children, you're damn right he is!


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

warlock07 I completely agree that he did crash during a tough time and he was so supportive during my cancer...we had been back together 3 years before I was diagnosed. So, he didnt come back just because of that. He really is a good guy but seems to be in a spot right now where this repressed anger is making is presence known. I know he loves me ad doesn't want to live like this. Maybe me having cancer and knowing how aggressive it was and knowing how close he came to losing me made this all come up after we knew I was okay. I don't know.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So ...

Let's focus on the now, rather than what has already occurred.

What are you doing now?

Are you reaching out to him? Is he reaching out to you?

You both need to find your feet before we can make any movement in any direction.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

sdcp16 said:


> warlock07 I completely agree that he did crash during a tough time and he was so supportive during my cancer...we had been back together 3 years before I was diagnosed. So, he didnt come back just because of that. He really is a good guy but seems to be in a spot right now where this repressed anger is making is presence known. I know he loves me ad doesn't want to live like this. Maybe me having cancer and knowing how aggressive it was and knowing how close he came to losing me made this all come up after we knew I was okay. I don't know.


This is just my opinion, your husband thinks you had an affair and he has not yet processed it correctly yet. I think it there are several books out there that would help (how to heal your spouse from an affair seems to be mentioned often.) I think you should read such books and see what you can do to help out your H process this. 

You appear to be coming from a strong place wanting to do 'whatever it takes'. This is excellent. Getting him into therapy with you or with out you would help as well.

I wish you well, sorry if I threadjacked too much.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sdcp16 said:


> I absolutely positively want my marriage!!! I made a huge mistake 5 years ago during a really tough time. He had walked out on me, wouldn't talk to me for days on end and repeatedly told me he was done. I honestly felt thrown away. I never ever should have been with another guy. It was stupid and I regret it. I am the one who first told my husband I had gone out with this other guy Of course it was tomake him jealous! But we stayed separated. I waited 4 more months before seeing this guy again.....so at that point my husband had been gone for 5 months. I had begged him to come home and we would take one step forward, two steps back. Again, I handled things wrong!* I just hate that 5 years later we are dealing with this!*


Yes the consequences of infidelity are disastrous on marriages, and the damage will persist until it is actually overcome. I am still damaged from my divorce, when after separating I found her affairs, and that was almost 4 years ago and I never even had to contend with a reconciliation on top of it all. I am certainly not trying to compare or minimize the grief you were going though either.

But like a couple others have said, whether or not you can overcome this depends first on both you and your H actually wanting that. If it's what you both want there is nothing else to stop you from achieving that, just a matter of ironing out the wrinkles. The hard part just may be facing the truth should deep down he does not actually want what you want.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

Locke.Stratos said:


> So during the separation he didn't really just up and leave, he went to take care of his mom who had cancer.





sdcp16 said:


> Let this be known also, he DID NOT leave me to go stay with his mom and care for her....he wound up moving in there because he had nowhere else to go....


My mistake.




sdcp16 said:


> now this "affair" is coming back to haunt us.


A delayed reaction to infidelity is not uncommon. My ex's father had an affair and it took a years before her mom's anger set in.

Your husband has had quite a lot to deal with and process in the last few years and likely rugswept your affair in order to cope.

Now that your lives have normalized and quietened down all those unresolved feelings have awakened in him.

Have you thought of suggesting a trip somewhere for just the two of you, a change of scenery can really do wonders. Select a destination and travel to somewhere you've always wanted to visit, anywhere to "escape" for a while.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Not clear as in, you don't believe her?
> 
> His dad passed, his mom was diagnosed with cancer, and he feared for his job. He flaked, and left ... and then served her with divorce papers.
> 
> ...


well, his current issue is that she had an affair. That is the point. The advice to the OP that she didn't have an affair isn't going to help him. He feels she did and is having issues due to it. Since she wants to save the marriage (she has stated this many times in this thread), she is going to have to help him process the affair. It appears it was rugswept in the past or not dealt with properly. 

We can debate the exact ethics of did she or not, but that won't help her. Dealing with what he sees as an affair might.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back."

Well Phoenix....SHE used the words games.

I doubt a man who just lost his father, had a mother just diagnosed with cancer, and was in danger of losing his job had the time or inclination to engaging in game playing....sounds like a perfect storm of adversity and personal crisis to me....I'm pretty sure if we had his side of the story he would not be calling the pain and confusion he was in games.

And I don't give a f*ck what gender a person is in a situation like this....based on the most recent posts by OP I think even more that she just reacted in a very poor and unsupportive way towards her BH because of her own feelings of hurt and abandonment....she failed to be patient and strong IMO while her BH needed her most.

For example, yeah his WORDS were all over the place, saying he was done, saying he was confused....but he never cut contact completely (in fact her A happened AFTER the month of limited NC she OP says happened), he never filed for D, he continued to pay the mortgage.

I have seen threads from many posters, men and women, on TAM where a spouse was in a crisis like this, BUT NOT cheating....and the advice has ALWAYS been to stay patient, try to get them to seek help, DON'T take any rash steps or make snap decisions.

In this situation OP did not respond with patience and understanding of the crisis her BH was in...and unless she has zero empathy (which I do not believe is true) she knew exactly WHY he was in this erratic episode and crisis....yet she failed to take any of that into account in her own decisions.

Instead she ran off an had an A.

But you and those other posters go ahead and continue blaming the BH for his struggles during what was probably the worst time of his life....keep telling OP that she was OK to totally give up on her M because her probably PTSD H had emotionally and physically abandoned her...she had the right to be hurt and give up on him I guess, and seek some quick comfort in the bed of another man.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue....but you and these other posters should knock off this stupid gender war bullsh*t.

Abandoning a spouse obviously in a meltdown and crisis is a reprehensible thing to do irregardless of gender....but if you and these others want to coddle and justify OP's choices at least have the honesty to do it without throwing accusations of sexism at the rest of us.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

sdcp16 said:


> I absolutely positively want my marriage!!! I made a huge mistake 5 years ago during a really tough time. He had walked out on me, wouldn't talk to me for days on end and repeatedly told me he was done. I honestly felt thrown away. I never ever should have been with another guy. It was stupid and I regret it. I am the one who first told my husband I had gone out with this other guy Of course it was tomake him jealous! But we stayed separated. I waited 4 more months before seeing this guy again.....so at that point my husband had been gone for 5 months. I had begged him to come home and we would take one step forward, two steps back. Again, I handled things wrong! I just hate that 5 years later we are dealing with this!



Now imagine him being in your place 5 years back and making mistakes. Extend him the same grace and sympathy. Be strong when he is weak. But do draw a definitive boundary on how much he can stretch it


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> "During our separation, he played games..wanted me back, didn't want me back."
> 
> Well Phoenix....SHE used the words games.
> 
> ...


Her affair is not even the major issue here. It happened during a very uncertain time in their relationship. While not ideal, it is very understandable action. It is part that people are villianizing him about it seems absurd. 

sdcp16, I have a question for you. Imagine that he reads your posts. Would he agree with you description of you "affair" ?

Can you tell you a bit more about his recent anger. You also go into more detail about it ? Your details seem to be very sparse about it ?What does he say ? What triggered his anger ?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

OP, you said that you and your husband are separated once again. 

When did this latest separation occur?

Where is he living now?

If he did in fact leave the marital home, has he initiated contact with you or the children since the separation?


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

The present situation is obviously the result of unresolved issues from the past.

The most obvious seems to be the "rugswept affair".

What needs to be determined is if it is an affair. Not in the opinion of posters here, not technically. It doesn't matter really. What must be determined is if it was an affair for OP and her H. That's what matters here. We know her H's opinion, but we don't really know OP's opinion. In the Opening Post she refers to it as "The "affair" as he calls it" so it would look like she doesn't consider it an affair, but in subsequent post she talks about it as if she does consider it cheating. 

So, OP, do you consider what happened five years ago an affair or not? How do you feel about it? If roles were reversed would you think it was cheating or not? In these years have you ever corrected your husband when he called it "the affair" with a "not really" or "not exactly"? Maybe here could lie an unresolved conflict. Maybe he feels you minimized what you did and consequently aren't really remorseful about it. If this is the case you need to talk frankly about it and reach common ground on this episode of your marital history. Or maybe you two just never really talked about it after you got together again and he feels you are not really remorseful when in fact you are.

Another unresolved conflict could be in the motivation of the first separation. Depression or great stress can make people do strange things, and after an important loss it's possible to feel the need of some alone time. He could tell the OP that he wanted to spend some time alone at her mom's but there was no need to talk about divorce or to begin procedures. So his behavior is strange, unless he felt some resentment toward the OP. Do you think it's possible that he somehow felt that you didn't support him like you should in his times of trouble? Has he ever hinted about it, then or later? It would be important to find out, because I think this is the other place in the history of your marriage where a reason for his anger could lie.

As for the "why now?" : When you go through a difficult ordeal you find strength you didn't know you had. You pay for it later, when you can relax and all the weight of what you went through fall upon you. 

In a moment like that he might have considered that he was there for you in your time of need, while, in his hour of darkness, you turned around and went with another guy. Beware, OP, I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think this is how he now feels, his perception of the facts, so to speak, and that's what has ignited his anger, IMO

So I think you need a lot of professional help (IC and MC) and some "wide open" heart to heart talks. You need to explore those dark corners, listen to each other, explain your behavior and your feelings to each other, withholding no secrets, and try to reach common ground, making amends if needed and giving 2x4s if needed .
Don't just agree with him so he will be happy, that will be like rugsweeping, you need to stand by your opinions if they are different from his, and explain why you see things in a different way.

I hope you can sort it out.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I think he'd agree with my affair. It happened maybe 5 times. He was an outlet I guess during a time when my husband didn't seem to want me. Again, I have admitted repeatedly this was wrong. My husband has known about the affair since soon after it happened. I told him the whole truth about it. I answered every question he had. His anger now seem to have stemmed from a few week ago, we were heading to dinner and this other guy and his girlfriend came out as we went into the restaurant. It's like that made my husband have this wave of emotions hit him. I didnt' talk or even look at the other guy. About a week after this incident, my husband left. He says the anger in him today is what he shouldhave felt 5 years ago. He feels like the affair just happened. He has trouble talking to me because within a few minutes, he gets red, hot and you can see the sweat on him! And then he leaves!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Anybody actually want to help the lady or should we continue arguing with one another about whether or not she cheated?

She's owned her behavior.

They mended their marriage, so she thought, and now her husband has walked out of the marriage for a second time, rather than actually sticking around to address the actual problem.

This isn't reasonable behavior, regardless of the gender perpetrating it.

So, I'll ask again OP. When did you notice or did he verbalize that this was becoming a problem once again?

Has he been talking about it to you, or is this out of the blue?


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

I absolutely agree I had an affair now. Though at the time I didn't see it that way because my husband was so back and forth on whether he wanted me or not. Again, it was a tough time for us and I shouldn't have turned to someone else. Now, I need help working him through the anger.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Ah ... 

That helps a lot.

You and hubs ran into the dude.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What is the status of communication between you and your husband currently?


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Does the other guy know that your H knows?
Maybe he looked at your husband in the wrong way, like making fun of him? Could he be that kind of guy?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Ah ...
> 
> That helps a lot.
> 
> You and hubs ran into the dude.


Very understandable trigger. Ouch. As Deej said, are you two communicating often? This might be out of bounds but is moving a possibility?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

My husband and I communicate. We talk daily. I have asked that he be here more then once every 5 or 6 days. We still have a house to take care of and shouldn't all be left up to me. We have talked a few times about the affair and he asked some questions that I know have been discussed before but I answer any that he has. I don't talk to or see the OM at all and haven't in a long time.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

sdcp16,

If your husband is the type that can't stand to talk about the issues face to face regarding his anger, without putting an emotional barrier and shutting down emotionally, then please consider writing him a letter(s) and/or e-mails (both would be preferable because one could serve as a time stamp document for reference purposes). You can express to him, not an ultimatum, but a warning that it is essential that he seek therapy otherwise the marriage will end.

Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Letters are a fantastic idea. Gets good communication without immediate confrontation. Several couples used letters to help them recover. Good call Dogbert! &#55357;&#56842;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

We actually text quite often. Sometimes things can be said that way and the other person can't interrupt. As long as we're talking and he's coming here every couple days helps. I just wish I could help him work through the anger he has


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> We actually text quite often. Sometimes things can be said that way and the other person can't interrupt. As long as we're talking and he's coming here every couple days helps. I just wish I could help him work through the anger he has


Has your therapist given you any ideas? That book I mentioned is available for Audible download and could probably help you help him.

I know you're really sorry but having a productive way to work with your regret and help.your husband is what you're looking for.

Get your hands on some tools to help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

But in those texts have you actually conveyed the dire need for him to seek professional help for his anger? Have you actually expressed to him that without it the marriage will eventually end? He needs to know this explicitly. 

We men, in general, need direct statements of fact for we are not very good at reading implied, between the lines, types of messages.


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes I have told him he needs to see a therapist. I have now seen the therapist 4 times and he's helping me make sense of it all. I honestly see the only way for this all to be put to rest is if we see a counselor and my husband can be helped to manage his feelings and anger


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therapy is the only way this gets addressed.

We can certainly chime in with suggestions and contributions from similar experiences, but as you seem to clearly understand, neither we, nor you, can do the work for your husband.

He has to be able to process and understand his feelings, and importantly, decide what it is that he wants, and determine if he can work through it.

You can be open, honest and supportive. Those are important.

But ... I'll throw in my caveat. He does not get to simply keep bringing this up and throwing it in your face for the remainder of your relationship, or during times of stress.

If he deals with it, and forgives you, and himself in terms of the behavior that precipitated his leaving in the first place, then it needs to be processed and put in it's place, rather than be dragged out and used like a bludgeon whenever he is unhappy.

Hope that make sense.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Deejo said:


> But ... I'll throw in my caveat. He does not get to simply keep bringing this up and throwing it in your face for the remainder of your relationship, or during times of stress.


I agree. With one exception. If for some reason she ever strikes up a "friendship" of some sort with this other guy she was with. Then he'd be within his rights to bring up a reminder.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Good job sdcp16! Don't let up on the counseling or therapy. Make it a deal breaker.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

In the mean time, don't forget to work on your pain either. Keep working on yourself to be mentally strong as possible. Do not take all the blame for this debacle either. Just like your owning your actions, he needs to do the same. His actions does not get absolved either, and beyond his anger issue, he needs to work on his coping issues.

Do not be a doormat. He cannot learn that every time he has an issue, he can walk away, and choose to come back whenever he wants and expects you to wait for him to make a decision. He does not get to place your life on hold. When he decided to make this journey of life with you, he agreed to walk with you together. If he decided to choose a different path, he should not expect you to wait at the crossroads to see if he will come back for you.

Your trying to help him with his anger, while your dealing with him walking away from you again. Your at another crossroad again.

Also, I would not take him back until he learns better coping mechanism. You do not want this to be a reoccurring theme in the future.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sdcp16 said:


> He left the first time I think because of all the pressure....his Dad has just died. He mom had found out she had cancer and hsi job was on the line. Things with us hadn't been great....no fighting but we had let life get in the way of us...working, taking care of kids and werent' doing much together. Let this be known also, he DID NOT leave me to go stay with his mom and care for her....he wound up moving in there because he had nowhere else to go....


Which is what I suspected was the case.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Running into the a-hole that slept with his wife certainly didn't help.

I don't know how that trigger can be resolved in such a small community.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> they were still legally married = adultery = cheating
> 
> if she wanted to get l*id, she should have formalized the D, or given her H noticed that separated = dating others.
> 
> Same if you switched roles, btw.


He threw away his wife and his children.

And that's all we need to know.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> He had walked out on me, wouldn't talk to me for days on end and repeatedly told me he was done. I honestly felt thrown away. I never ever should have been with another guy. It was stupid and I regret it. I am the one who first told my husband I had gone out with this other guy Of course it was to make him jealous! But we stayed separated.


If your marriage was over then you had every right to do what you did. The way I see it the problem is that no declarative statement was made. You should have told your husband that you considered the marriage over and were free to have sex with other men. When he learned that you had a date with the OM he should have made it clear that if sex was involved there would be no going back. You both avoided the subject. 



sdcp16 said:


> I know he loves me ad doesn't want to live like this. Maybe me having cancer and knowing how aggressive it was and knowing how close he came to losing me made this all come up after we knew I was okay.


I think the problem is that you guys weathered the storm and now your husband realizes how much he loves you. Your affair didn’t matter as much before when he wasn’t as sure of his feelings. Seeing the OM brought it all back and now you’re very special to him.


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## Trader1 (Oct 27, 2013)

If it's his perspective that he's just now dealing with the aftermath of your "affair" then you're going to have to be willing to go through all the motions of that process. There is no shortcut through or around it. I would guess that things will work out between you if this assessment is correct since you had a long period of happiness in your relationship prior to recent events.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Running into the a-hole that slept with his wife certainly didn't help.
> 
> I don't know how that trigger can be resolved in such a small community.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Been, there, done that. Mind you, the fact OM was with his new wife (very tall, breasts like out of control melons!) made me laugh.:smthumbup:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Been, there, done that. Mind you, the fact OM was with his new wife (very tall, breasts like out of control melons!) made me laugh.:smthumbup:


I know Matt. OPs H is probably a little more wired like me. Running into OM would soon look like the aftermath of a battle scene from "Vikings".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I know Matt. OPs H is probably a little more wired like me. Running into OM would soon look like the aftermath of a battle scene from "Vikings".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OM looks like an extra from The Hobbit. Yeah. Mr Hobbit and Melonwoman. It was all I could do not to laugh at them.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> I absolutely positively want my marriage!!! I made a huge mistake 5 years ago during a really tough time. He had walked out on me, wouldn't talk to me for days on end and repeatedly told me he was done. I honestly felt thrown away. I never ever should have been with another guy. It was stupid and I regret it. I am the one who first told my husband I had gone out with this other guy Of course it was tomake him jealous! But we stayed separated. I waited 4 more months before seeing this guy again.....so at that point my husband had been gone for 5 months. I had begged him to come home and we would take one step forward, two steps back. Again, I handled things wrong! I just hate that 5 years later we are dealing with this!


sdcp, this (and a couple of your other posts) are the best you have made so far. Why ? Because:


You own your actions to step out - you understand that you (and he) were in a bad place relationship wise but there was no excuse for cheating even if you thought the marriage might end.


You have stated categorically that you still love him and want to fight for this marriage.


You recognise that he loves you which is why he came back.


You recognise that he has triggered and want to help him with this (5 years on) anger he is experiencing as a result.


You are pushing forward with the counselling.


So thats all good - there is no need for any further "he said she said" and "he did she did" discussions. What you don't appear to have are the tools to deal with this going forward and in order to deal with this you need to clearly understand what might be going on his head. This is where the good folk of TAM can collectively help regardless of whose fault it might have been.



OK so firstly, he triggered on seeing the OM! Pure and simple! Something we did not know about but now understand when you explained it. Its something you need to know about because triggers will continue to come now and you need to know how to deal with them. When they occur you need to be very comforting to him and let him deal with his pain but be there for him. NEVER try and justify the affair and connect it to the failure in the marriage at the time.


Secondly, it is clear that the "affair" was never properly dealt with by him (or you for that matter). Dealing with it would have been him (and you) taking responsibility for the failure in the marriage (maybe 50:50), but with you taking full responsibility for the cheating and showing active remorse for it (just as he would have had to do had there been any physical violence from him). So now, he needs to understand that while you both might share responsibility for the marriage failure at the time, you accept the responsibility for the cheating completely and will do whatever it takes to make it right. Actively (go out of your way) ensure that he has full transparency in accessing your communications and full knowledge of your whereabouts. Do little things for him that make him feel happy or that he enjoys.


Thirdly, this remorse should go on but only if he sets a date and sticks to it by which time he has to go and get help with how he is feeling. Offer to set it up for him and make sure that he has IC in addition to you both attending MC. Make sure that he understands that it is in nobody's interests to let this behaviour carry on ad infinitum as it is disrespectful to you and damaging to you both and is helping no one.


Finally he needs a safe place to vent and discuss his feelings and ideally he should come here.


The continued perseverance and little steps you are taking is the right thing to do so well done (as your instincts are right on this).

I wish you the best and hope to see improvements in him as soon as possible.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

So he leaves.....gets divorce papers....says he is going to leave you and divorce you. And then he is angry that you spent alone time with another man. Well I hate to break it to you but he probably was seeing someone during this. He wants to put this on you. He opened this can of **** on his own. You went along for the ride the best you could. Should you have waited for the divorce first? Yes.....but everyone I know that separates from their spouse sleeps with someone else before the divorce is final.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> Now, I need help working him through the anger.


You can't. The one thing you can do is continue to make it safe for him to come to you if he feels like it. Or help him find places to go to get help.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> You mean the wife he abandoned and filed for divorce from? Poor baby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So the husband left. We only have OP's side of the story as to what happened and nobody has heard from the husband... so because we only hear one side of the story, the man is an utter piece of sh.. 

I am not sure I would call that a double standard as much as reserving judgement. 

/begin sarcasm I mean it is not like any WS has ever come on this site and said their BS did awful things and thus deserved to be cheated on... oh wait that has happened about 95% of the time... my fault. /end sarcasm


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MovingAhead said:


> So the husband left.


And has left - *AGAIN*.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> So the husband left. We only have OP's side of the story as to what happened and nobody has heard from the husband... so because we only hear one side of the story, the man is an utter piece of sh..
> 
> I am not sure I would call that a double standard as much as reserving judgement.
> 
> /begin sarcasm I mean it is not like any WS has ever come on this site and said their BS did awful things and thus deserved to be cheated on... oh wait that has happened about 95% of the time... my fault. /end sarcasm


Regardless of how much pain you are in, when you abandon the spouse you made vows to, leave them in the lurch and give then every indicator that you have fired them as your partner, you can't expect loyalty.

He walked from the marriage and that is not only a crappy thing to do, for any reasonable person that is a deal breaker no matter how much that walkaway spouse could use your help.

The double standard is in regards to what a left behind spouse chooses to do to cope with their loss. Most guys on TAM are encouraged to get out there, most women on TAM are encouraged to take their time. For me personally, which advice I dole out depends on the finality of the relationship and not at all their gender.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MovingAhead said:


> So the husband left. We only have OP's side of the story as to what happened and nobody has heard from the husband... so because we only hear one side of the story, the man is an utter piece of sh..
> 
> I am not sure I would call that a double standard as much as reserving judgement.
> 
> /begin sarcasm I mean it is not like any WS has ever come on this site and said their BS did awful things and thus deserved to be cheated on... oh wait that has happened about 95% of the time... my fault. /end sarcasm


Everyone knows that there's always two sides to a story but unfortunately, we here at TAM rarely get both sides. Therefore, the next best option is to base any advise given on the information provided by the original poster of the thread. 

In this case, there's a history of abandonment by the OP's husband which, as he's learned, has led to terrible consequences. The question is now what can the OP do to help her husband deal with his anger over the consequences of his poor decisions 5 years ago. That's it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Lon said:


> Regardless of how much pain you are in, when you abandon the spouse you made vows to, leave them in the lurch and give then every indicator that you have fired them as your partner, you can't expect loyalty.
> 
> He walked from the marriage and that is not only a crappy thing to do, for any reasonable person that is a deal breaker no matter how much that walkaway spouse could use your help.
> 
> The double standard is in regards to what a left behind spouse chooses to do to cope with their loss. *Most guys on TAM are encouraged to get out there,* most women on TAM are encouraged to take their time. For me personally, which advice I dole out depends on the finality of the relationship and not at all their gender.


I'll also add that when dealing with walk away wives, most men are encouraged to do the 180 and detach, never apologize unnecessarily, never beg the spouse to return, go NC, so on and so forth. Then when the WW returns, _there are consequences_ for crossing boundaries to ensure that this sort of behavior is never repeated again.

-----------------------------

sdcp16:

Were there consequences to your husband for abandoning you and the children?

Did you establish any boundaries with regards to future abandonment?

Look, I'm all about giving people a second chance as long as the requirement for reconciliation are met. However, I advise people against sticking their necks out a third time.

Your husband's anger is misdirected. He's blaming you for the consequences of his poor judgement. I'm sure seeing the OM was a slap in the face and reminded him of how awful he handled things 5 years earlier. 

Your best bet for getting her husband to return to you is to follow the playbook you used 5 years earlier. Disengage and show him you _CAN_ have a happy life without him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lila said:


> Were there consequences to your husband for abandoning you and the children?
> 
> Did you establish any boundaries with regards to future abandonment?
> 
> ...


THANK you! OP, please read this several times. 

I don't see ANYWHERE in your posts where your H has had to address how easily he could ABANDON his entire family. And now that he has done it again, IMO, THIS should be the number one topic in ANY discussion in therapy.

He can't just keep taking his toys and going home every time he feels put out.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lila said:


> Disengage and show him you _CAN_ have a happy life without him.


Uhhh... I've got some catching up to do, but for now I'll say this...

It sounds like you're suggesting that OP implement the 180. I'd like to point out that doing this will serve only to help her to more fully detach from her husband, and it doesn't sound like that's what she wants. If he were in some sort of affair fog, or on the fence trying to decide between her and another women, then it _might_ work. But, given his current frame of mind (again, still reading), I don't think that it will have the effect that OP wants.

And I'd certainly recommend that she not begin dating or seeing someone else. Or even talking to OM.

And yes, LTS... I'd say the same thing to a guy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > Disengage and show him you _CAN_ have a happy life without him.
> ...



She's got a walk away husband...what would you suggest?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

In all honesty there are two separate issues here and yes there is a bunch of squabbling like little children.

1. OP-Husband we are told left the marriage... As to the exact circumstances we don't know what really happened. This is a separate issue. You can argue causality or not but it is still separate.

2. OP had a fling with other man while husband was at mothers house. OP was still married, this was over a 6 month separation period. I believe if I am not wrong that if you are married and having sex with someone else and not legally separated that is adultery or an affair.

Can we agree that two wrongs do not make a right? Obviously not as some people are posting that he deserved what he got be cause he left...

Well you hurt me so I get to hurt you back... That is the argument of a child.

If OP is hurt about being left, they should discuss this and work on this together.

The issue at hand is OP-Husband is hurt because of the fling. That is what needs to be discusses and worked on. It does no one any good to point fingers and ascribe blame. Fix the problem not the blame and stop the whining.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

He had de facto left the marriage when he packed up and moved however they were de jure still married. Take your pick but he moved out, she dated another guy, he knew it before he moved back in, and therefore sanctioned her seeing the other guy while he was AWOL. He now claims to have buyers remorse and wants to run off again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sdcp16,

After your husband abandoned you and your children the first time, how much remorse did he show? Did he ask for your forgiveness? What did he do to help you and your children heal from what he did?


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

OP, unfortunately this thread turned into a completely side debate unrelated to the question you posed. How to help your husband with his anger. Although your affair, or whatever you two decide it was, was a few years ago, if he didn't ever deal with his anger then when it surfaces, which appears it is now, it'll be as fresh as when this happened. The event of seeing the OM was a huge trigger and maybe now he's finally feeling and expressing it.

There's a silver lining here. You two probably wouldn't be able to have a true R if he continued to swallow that anger. That never works. At least now it's surfacing so you two can address it and hopefully get past it.

I think you've both made some mistakes but don't we all. If you both love each other, and it's actually important to have that discussion with 100% truth, if that answer is yes, you do love each other, then all this other bullsh*t going on can be worked through. If he tries to run you grab him. Tell him not to run away again. Remind him that he stuck close to you when you needed him most so you know he's not a coward. Tell him that if you both are dedicated to each other and making this work then there's nothing you can't get past.

I'd advise you to do MC but be careful in choosing them. Read as many online reviews as you can first. My wife and I made the mistake of picking a bad MC (the ladies here would have loved her ) and it caused us both problems. We haven't settled on another one yet but we're shopping. Together. Just focus on the love that's still there. Remind him to focus on it. If that mutual love is there then all things are possible. If either party truly doesn't feel that love (really truly, not dumb things said during the heat of an argument) then you need to split. I'm hoping the best for you. I hate to see marriages fail.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> 6. Ele, that last post was just silly! That was just a post to prove a point to show you have OP's back...


It is not silly at all. What they each did can be seen equally as issues. Apparently neither his walking out on her nor her "affair/fling/whatever" have been adequately dealt with.

There is more than one issue here. There is her "affair/fling/whatever". They need to work through it. He says it's bothering him now so if they are ever going to get back together, they need to work through this. They will have to do all of the stuff that will help heal their relationship.

But there is another issue that seems to have also been swept under the rung. The OP does not even know why he left 5 years ago. She's speculating. Well he owes her an explanation of why he walked out. He also has to address why he's walked out again. In order to take him back, she needs to know that he is not going to be doing this every few years. Abandoning one's spouse is not normal behavior. 

If this marriage is going to be repaired they have to address BOTH of these issues.



MovingAhead said:


> You usually have great advice and I am frankly disappointed in you and a lot of you other posters who are seriously acting like children.
> 
> Stop choosing sides and help or don't and just be bitter old shrews and foolish azzes... I don't know what you would call a foolish old man.
> 
> Ban me please!


A bit dramatic?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> This is a husband who toyed with his wife, walked out, reconciled and is now preparing to walk out again only this time he is going to blame her and this "affair."


You know, my BIL is going through something similar to the OP except he hasn't slept with anyone, (though I wouldn't blame him if he did). My SIL has been toying with him for more that a year, "i want to be married, I don't want to be married" crap. Most likely having an affair with a co-worker and moving out of the house "to find herself" and moved back in, but nothing has changed. She's still playing the "I don't know what I want" game. It has taken such a toll on my BIL. I've lost count on how many times she's raised his hopes and then dashed them. I know he's thinking of the kids but gosh, I wish he would just move on, go out and meet someone else and get laid already. See that he doesn't have to be treated like dirt.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Because he had sex with a married woman in a tough spot. Still not a lot of info but he more than likely is anything but a saint.
> 
> You could be right, he could be a beautiful human being but I don't believe he is with currently available information.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My current partner and I were both still married when we met. We had both been separated for over a year. (Me for over two) We met at a divorce group.  

I don't see any issue with it. We have now been together three years and are divorced from our former spouses.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I think it's very distracting to blame her and tell her the woman that she is in the wrong.
> 
> The first order of the day should be why did he leave in the first place? What has he done to make amends for that? Was he cheating when he left? How not to be a doormat to a man who comes and goes as he pleases.
> 
> One answer would be to 180 and get yourself back into dating. Which she did do and now apparently the marriage problems are her fault.* I think he's gas lighting her.*


That is what I think too! He is either gas lighting her or he is sinking into another depression but this time he is blaming her...so still kind of gas lighting only he himself may not be fully aware of it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that this discussion has been on topic. Before an issue can be solved, it has to be identified.

There is not one issue here as the OP started out with. The issue is not 'just' that she had an affair/fling/whatever. There is also the issue of her husband abandoning her and the children, not once but twice.

It seems that there has been a lot of rug sweeping going on and they need to deal with both of them. If the OP only deals with a way to get her husband over his anger about what she did, there is little hope for their marriage. Both issues have to be readdressed. And this time without rug sweeping.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> It can be productive. It is up to us to make it happen. ��
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She wants her marriage. He loves her. He was there for her at a terrible time in her life. They love each other but all this crap got in the way. They can get past it. Together. His anger is not her problem to fix alone. His anger is not his problem to fix alone. In a marriage all problems are their problems to work through together. I think they can make it, they just need to work through the anger with a lot of heart to heart talks, and possibly MC, and also focus on the things that made them fall in love in the first place.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dogbert said:


> True but why didn't anybody interested in engaging in the topic of gender double standards, started their own thread to begin with? Why hijack someone else's?


TAM's gender double standards were only brought up because some posters were trying to guilt trip the OP into taking 100% blame as an adulteress and trying to guilt trip her.

The issues in this marriage are much more than that. If all they address is what she did.. recovery will not work.


So the topic only came up to stop the railroading.
.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

italianjob said:


> The OP actually said she considered it an affair a number of pages ago, but yeah, we shouldn't let what she thinks or feels about it get in the way of her own thread...


Exactly. It's important to listen to the OP and maybe address the topic they asked to be addressed. We have far too many Internet-educated "therapists" here that don't listen to posters.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hmm... looks like this thread has been pruned a bit.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> In all honesty there are two separate issues here and yes there is a bunch of squabbling like little children.
> 
> 1. OP-Husband we are told left the marriage... As to the exact circumstances we don't know what really happened. This is a separate issue. You can argue causality or not but it is still separate.
> 
> ...


First of all, I dispute that she did this to hurt him. He walked out on her and his kids and she met someone. That happens. 

Second, they didn't discuss a separation with boundaries, like people are advised to do here, he just walked, so he gave up any say in what she did with her personal life. I'd tell a guy the same thing. .... your wife walks and moves in with her mother so she really doesn't get a say in his personal life. 

As to the greater question of how you his anger, she first needs clarity on what her wrongdoings are. Don't feed the victim beast where not appropriate. What if he was angry she went to the movies with a friend he doesn't like? Is that her problem? So you tell him that you're genuinely sorry he's upset but he walked out with no discussion of separation boundaries and she can't be expected to sit on her bum while he decides what he wants. For all we know he had another woman, aren't we always being told that the only reason people leave marriages without abuse or adultery are for others?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm... looks like this thread has been pruned a bit.


86 posts, but who's counting?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)




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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> He threw away his wife and his children.
> 
> And that's all we need to know.


He did not do that. He did not file, he paid the bills. He had incredible stress in his life and he was broken. SO, while trying to recover from this SHE HAD AN AFFAIR, WHICH SHE ADMITTED IS AN AFFAIR. HE TRIGGERED WHEN THEY RAN INTO THE OM. THEY BOTH ARE WRONG, BUT THE CURRENT WRONG IS they need to deal with this trigger.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> He did not do that. He did not file, he paid the bills. He had incredible stress in his life and he was broken. SO, while trying to recover from this SHE HAD AN AFFAIR, WHICH SHE ADMITTED IS AN AFFAIR. HE TRIGGERED WHEN THEY RAN INTO THE OM. THEY BOTH ARE WRONG, BUT THE CURRENT WRONG IS they need to deal with this trigger.


No, the current wrong is ALSO that they need to deal with him LEAVING THE HOME - AGAIN.

How many times is he allowed to let his kids watch him walk away and get to come back?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lila said:


> She's got a walk away husband...what would you suggest?


I'd replied to this, but it's since been deleted. And, while I can't quite remember the entirety of my reply, basically...

Disengaging a bit would probably be a good idea, but I'd advise her to stop well short of a full 180.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Looks like the recent pruning won't be the last...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OP, is he trying to work on things currently, or is he just gone? What's the actual status?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

naiveonedave said:


> He did not do that. He did not file, he paid the bills. He had incredible stress in his life and he was broken. SO, while trying to recover from this SHE HAD AN AFFAIR, WHICH SHE ADMITTED IS AN AFFAIR. HE TRIGGERED WHEN THEY RAN INTO THE OM. THEY BOTH ARE WRONG, BUT THE CURRENT WRONG IS they need to deal with this trigger.



She was broken, her husband left her and decided that he doesn't want to be her husband anymore. Then he put her through mental gymnastics. So while trying to move on, she finds comfort with another person. But hey, if he decides to stop being her partner, he should get her loyalty. Either he is a husband or not, if one moment he decides no, what right does he have to dictate how she lives her life, especially when he stops being a partner to her.

Think of it this way, he gets to decide when they are a couple and when they are not. But, she should wait around like a doormat for him when he decides to be again. So when she sleeps with the other man, she decides that she is single at the moment, and when she is ready, she will be a partner again.

If your wife says she is no longer your wife, can you force her to be. OP could not make her off again and on again husband a husband. She could not place that label on him. Convenient for him to be able to decide if he is a husband or not, and expects someone to wait around for him.

I feel sorry for his loss, but he still chose those actions of his own volition. Whatever his state of mind, is he not still responsible for his action, or that only counts when it comes to cheating. Leaving the marriage is okay, because their is an excuse, but hey if infidelity occurs instead, then there is no excuse.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I also see that no guys have jumped on the he must be cheating bandwagon like they would for a wife that walked. Unless I've missed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sdcp16 (Feb 18, 2015)

He has told me that he can't see past his anger at this point to do much of anything. He has said he loves me and in the end would like us to stay married. I have apologized hundreds of times for what I did. We both did things that we shouldnt' have during our breakup 5 yrs ago. But we have been so good since then. I kinda flipped out earlier this week because of him having left again and behaving like he has no responsibilities here. He agreed to come around more and help. We'll see how that goes. Him not living here though makes more issues for us and makes it harder to work on things.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You're taking responsibility for things you shouldn't and letting him behave like a spoiled brat. That's on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sdcp16 said:


> He has told me that he can't see past his anger at this point to do much of anything. He has said he loves me and in the end would like us to stay married. I have apologized hundreds of times for what I did. We both did things that we shouldnt' have during our breakup 5 yrs ago. But we have been so good since then. I kinda flipped out earlier this week because of him having left again and behaving like he has no responsibilities here. * He agreed to come around more and help. We'll see how that goes. Him not living here though makes more issues for us and makes it harder to work on things.*


Then put your foot down. Either he comes home and works on things or it's over and start the paperwork. He needs to know he can't just run away and play single every time he wants to. He's blaming this on you because he can, because you're letting him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Think of it this way, *he gets to decide when they are a couple and when they are not*.


Repeatedly leaving a spouse or even threatening to leave a spouse is actually on the list of abusive actions. He's only done it twice now, for fairly valid reasons, but if it happens again, I will tell her to leave him, as the act is creating an abuse victim mentality in her in which she has to walk on eggshells and put all her focus on never upsetting him, lest he walk out again.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

sdcp16 said:


> He has told me that he can't see past his anger at this point to do much of anything. He has said he loves me and in the end would like us to stay married. I have apologized hundreds of times for what I did. We both did things that we shouldnt' have during our breakup 5 yrs ago. But we have been so good since then. I kinda flipped out earlier this week because of him having left again and behaving like he has no responsibilities here. He agreed to come around more and help. We'll see how that goes. Him not living here though makes more issues for us and makes it harder to work on things.


I agree. If he loves you and you love him then he probably needs to come home. I've recently come to that realization in my own marriage but this is not my thread so we'll focus on yours. Remind him that all of your problems are both of your problems. In a marriage there are no singular problems. You don't have your own problems and he doesn't have his own. You're husband and wife. All problems are both your problems and both of you need to work together. Tell him he needs to come home and be the husband in the household. Remind him that he loves you and you love him and, therefore, any and all "noise" in the relationship can be fixed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> I also see that no guys have jumped on the he must be cheating bandwagon like they would for a wife that walked. Unless I've missed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I've asked her twice now to check the phone records.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sdcp16 said:


> He has told me that he can't see past his anger at this point to do much of anything. He has said he loves me and in the end would like us to stay married.


Ok, then, at this point I will tell you to do this:

Tell him that if he wants to work on the marriage he will move back home. If he won't do that, you consider yourself being divorced. He owes you that much. There is NO reason for you to be groveling aside from the HUNDREDS of times you have apologized.

You've set a VERY bad balance here by doing this. Have some respect for yourself; he won't do it for you. He has subconsciously taken your groveling and built it into a 'I have all the power' situation and that won't fix your marriage. 

Respectfully tell him that if he wants to leave, you won't stop him, but you won't beg him to come back either, and you won't work with him AGAIN from another home to try to beg/convince him to choose you again. Tell him that you are done apologizing for something you did because of HIS abandonment. Then wait and see if he comes back home. If he doesn't, make it clear you assume you will be divorcing.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I also see that *no guys* have jumped on the he must be cheating bandwagon like they would for a wife that walked. Unless I've missed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what indication is there of him now cheating? Seriously can some people just not turn everthing into some ridiculcious gender war nonsense. I know several of the posters here and none would give him a pass if he was cheating...myself included but what indication of any of that is here? As I understand the thread was weeded a bit.....was thier a post I missed that he now has a GF or are you just speculating??


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I also see that no guys have jumped on the he must be cheating bandwagon like they would for a wife that walked. Unless I've missed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what I meant by saying I was suspicious. I ain't buying what he is selling.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> Ok, then, at this point I will tell you to do this:
> 
> Tell him that if he wants to work on the marriage he will move back home. If he won't do that, you consider yourself being divorced. He owes you that much. There is NO reason for you to be groveling aside from the HUNDREDS of times you have apologized.
> 
> ...


I agree with your premise but not the way it's delivered here. This comes off as...this is your issue and tough luck. That approach wouldn't work with me at all as it sounds a lot like blame shifting. You, and others here, don't need to think it was cheating if you don't want to....SHE does....HE does, so they have to deal with that. 

I do 100% agree with you that this needs a direction. I think she should also say you need to come home to work on this OR we need to move on and then do so. They are going to have to go to counseling to make this work and my speculation is he needs some IC to learn how to communicate and process emotions better. I'm not a guy like this so I admit it's hard for me to understand people who can't communicate well however I do know they exist. 

Most importantly this guy has got to make a decision. He is either in or out. The fact that he has harbored anger for 5 years means this is on his mind a lot and while I can appreciate the conflict he must feel he has had years to process.....

My total personal opinion is he has made is decision but he is having a lot of trouble saying to his wife this is over and admitting it to himself.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> And what indication is there of him now cheating? Seriously can some people just not turn everthing into some ridiculcious gender war nonsense. I know several of the posters here and none would give him a pass if he was cheating...myself included but what indication of any of that is here? As I understand the thread was weeded a bit.....was thier a post I missed that he now has a GF or are you just speculating??


Usually when a husband posts that his wife needs a "break" and wants to separate for a while but stay married, especially when there is no recent issue or reason for the split, one thing they are told to check is if she is wanting to pursue an affair while still keeping her "plan B" on the hook in case it fails. In fact, any time a wife has become distant or leaves the house or needs some space or acts differently people are told to check for an affair. It's not gender war nonsense.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sdcp16 said:


> He has told me that he can't see past his anger at this point to do much of anything. He has said he loves me and in the end would like us to stay married. I have apologized hundreds of times for what I did. We both did things that we shouldnt' have during our breakup 5 yrs ago. But we have been so good since then. I kinda flipped out earlier this week because of him having left again and behaving like he has no responsibilities here. He agreed to come around more and help. We'll see how that goes. Him not living here though makes more issues for us and makes it harder to work on things.


First, stop apologizing for your fling. It wasn't an affair. He left you. Once he walked out that door with no plan to come back he lost the right to be the only person warming your bed. (Unless you two had previous agreed that there would be no one else in either of your lives until the divorce papers were signed and sealed. Without this specific agreement on NOT dating, you were free to date.)

Ask yourself why you want this man in your life? A man who cannot be counted upon? A man who has no constraints on ditching his wife and kids whenever the mood hits? This is what you want to be married to?

Someone posted an article a few weeks ago about more men ditching their wives with cancer than women ditching their husbands with cancer. At least your husband had enough sense to realize that ditching you while you were in treatment would have effectively ruined any relationship he could ever have with his kids. Credit for having stood by you on that. But did he stand by you because he loved you and wanted to take care of you? Or did he realize ditching you would have marked him as the utter slim ball he is permanently?

Do you currently have an agreement not to date other people? If so who brought it up?

When my H and I talked about separating that was one of the first things he wanted cleared up. 

Look, he is either your husband in name and deed or not. Right now, and 5 years ago he was not.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

SDCP,

When you dealt with the issues 5 years ago, it seems that you two never dealt with the issues 5 years ago but rather really rug swept them and hence they resurfaced.

It is my opinion that you both need to talk about this and deal with this head on whether directly or with MC/IC that is up to you.

You both acted wrong and you have been remorseful so there is little more you can do.

To get past where you are now you have to look at your current actions. You posted that you love your H and it seems that you are carrying all the weight.

One of the things most women want in a mate is a man. They don't want a boy or a fop they want a man. A man does NOT abandon his family. I understand the reasons why he left but I do not excuse his actions. You should never making excuses for acting badly it just causes more issues.

You are letting him treat you badly and that is not ok. He either should forgive you which means not holding it over your head or not but this back and forth is really bad.

When the times got tough he ran home to his room where he felt safe like a little boy. It is time for the little boy to grow up. The example he is setting for your children is one that is to be blunt pathetic. 

Lifeistooshort made the point. You are taking responsibility for things that you should not and he is acting like a spoiled brat. I understand why, but it's no excuse.

It is time to put away the childish things and become the man. So tell him if he doesn't come home and work on the mess you will pull him back by his hair and smack his azz

You get the picture. Casting blame will not fix any problems. Only working on the issues will do that. Don't defend the indefensible. Just apologize but also more importantly hold each other accountable for behaving like people need to behave to have a good marriage. Love him but do not coddle him. He is acting too much the brat and not enough the man he should be.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Usually when a husband posts that his wife needs a "break" and wants to separate for a while but stay married, especially when there is *no recent issue* or reason for the split, one thing they are told to check is if she is wanting to pursue an affair while still keeping her "plan B" on the hook in case it fails. In fact, any time a wife has become distant or leaves the house or needs some space or acts differently people are told to check for an affair. It's not gender war nonsense.


in that case I would agree but that's not what happend. He went through a stressful time and shut down and checked out of his marriage. It wasn't an out of the blue type thing. That is how the OP described it. 

And yes I do think that anytime a man or a woman in a marriage just suddenly and without warning says I'm done here I want a divorce they are likely having an affair. That's exactly what happens when my x wife cheated.....was totally out of the blue. But again is not the case here. He had reasons to check out...not good ones my opinion but they existed. Unless I missed a post where she suspected cheating or it was removed I don't see that here. Just a guy who can't seem handle marriage and maybe never will


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> This is what I meant by saying I was suspicious. I ain't buying what he is selling.


Call me a cynic, but after seeing the likes and recent posts by scdp16, I'm not buying any of it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> in that case I would agree but that's not what happend. He went through a stressful time and shut down and checked out of his marriage. It wasn't an out of the blue type thing. That is how the OP described it.


I'm talking about _this _time that he left, not the first time. This time he decided that her fling 5 years ago is suddenly reason for him to take off and live the single life for a while.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree with your premise but not the way it's delivered here. This comes off as...this is your issue and tough luck. That approach wouldn't work with me at all as it sounds a lot like blame shifting. You, and others here, don't need to think it was cheating if you don't want to....SHE does....HE does, so they have to deal with that.
> 
> I do 100% agree with you that this needs a direction. I think she should also say you need to come home to work on this OR we need to move on and then do so. They are going to have to go to counseling to make this work and my speculation is he needs some IC to learn how to communicate and process emotions better. I'm not a guy like this so I admit it's hard for me to understand people who can't communicate well however I do know they exist.
> 
> ...


I'm sure she will state it in her own way. I'm just saying stop making this ALL about what she did, and start making it about how they are BOTH being hurt. Her taking 100% of the blame for 5 years has only exacerbated their problems.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> in that case I would agree but that's not what happend. He went through a stressful time and shut down and checked out of his marriage. It wasn't an out of the blue type thing. That is how the OP described it.
> 
> And yes I do think that anytime a man or a woman in a marriage just suddenly and without warning says I'm done here I want a divorce they are likely having an affair. That's exactly what happens when my x wife cheated.....was totally out of the blue. But again is not the case here. He had reasons to check out...not good ones my opinion but they existed. Unless I missed a post where she suspected cheating or it was removed I don't see that here. Just a guy who can't seem handle marriage and maybe never will


Yeah, you never know how extremely stressful things are going to affect someone's psyche. When I was in the war we got into a nasty firefight one day while on patrol. We were a rifle platoon strength (about 40 Marines) and they were about 300 in strength armed with AK's, RPG's, and couple heavy mounted machine guns. For a bit it didn't look too good. We were taking casualties by the second. We were able to fight our way through the ambush and get the hell out of there. Back in base camp we all high-fived each other and were thankful that we made it back. One of the guys in my squad wasn't taking it so well. He had wet his trousers and we found him laying in his cot sobbing and shaking uncontrollably. We tried to snap him out of it but he was gone. Two corpsman took him to BAS and then we never saw him again. I heard much later that he had a complete breakdown and was in a psychiatric hospital.

We all went through the same high stress situation. Some of us came through just fine. For this guy it ruined his life. We all have our limits to the stressful stuff we can endure. This husband seems to have a hard time dealing with high stress events. I'm pulling for both of them. As long as there is mutual love then all the rest is just noise that can be fixed. Sometimes the noise is so loud that you can't hear anything else but it's still just noise and can be fixed.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm talking about _this _time that he left, not the first time. This time he decided that her fling 5 years ago is suddenly reason for him to take off and live the single life for a while.


Ok you weren't clear. It's possible he is using the thing from 5 years has an excuse to leave now when in reality he is having an affair?



It's a possible scenario...not the only one but cheaters do find ways to justify.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> TAM's gender double standards were only brought up because some posters were trying to guilt trip the OP into taking 100% blame as an adulteress and trying to guilt trip her.


Well you know me and my stance on cheating, etc. But not even I think this is a case of cheating, even though they were still married.

But I have asked the question over and over and would like OP to tell us what she thinks. 

So I'll ask again. Why did he leave? Could he just not handle the pressure of everything going on in his life? 

If so, that's pretty bad that he'd just up and leave his family due to pressure. A man has to stand up and be strong for his family in those times.

Or was something else going on with him, her, or the marriage in general?

I'm inclined to believe that he couldn't handle the pressure and just up and left. But we really haven't gotten an answer to this yet.....why? If it was the pressure of it all, then no, this can't be put all on her, not even a majority of it.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I also see that no guys have jumped on the he must be cheating bandwagon like they would for a wife that walked. Unless I've missed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't asked that outright, other than what you see above hoping that OP can shed some light on WHY he left if it wasn't just the pressure of it all. But its a possibility. 

We just aren't getting much detail on that from OP


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

vellocet said:


> I haven't asked that outright, other than what you see above hoping that OP can shed some light on WHY he left if it wasn't just the pressure of it all. But its a possibility.
> 
> We just aren't getting much detail on that from OP


I don't think she knows his true reasons for reasons. From what I read from her posts, she assumes it's due to loss of his parents plus job stresses put him over the edge.

It does not appear the they delt with much of anything aside from get back together and try to be better people.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She said that this time he left because he's angry. And that he doesn't want to work on anything.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I AM questioning why she wants to save this marriage.

I wish you would stop labeling women who disagree with you man haters. It is dismissive and rude. I don't label men who disagree with me mysogynists. 

The big sticking point is I'm not giving this husband a pass for his first desertion 5 years ago. Yes, dad dying, mom with cancer and job is on the line, tough stuff to deal with. His world was crumbling and he had no anchor. Perhaps he felt like his wife wasn't supporting him enough? Perhaps he felt like there were too many responsibilities on his plate? Perhaps his wife's lack of appropriate support at that time made him even less capable of finding his way through the constant tidal waves of emotional trauma? 

BTDT myself. Also wanted to leave because I didn't feel my H was even slightly supportive during those times. We are STILL working on those resentments! Still!

So my opinion is that perhaps he had resentments, and still does, for not feeling supported when he needed it. But instead of focusing on the real issues for which she IS responsible, he is focusing on this fling to make her responsible. He felt emotionally abandoned but can't deal with that...because emotions and feeeeelllings...yuck. It's easier to focus on this fling/affair where he can clearly and easily identify that she did wrong without having to open up about feeling abandoned when the sh!t hit the fan.

The fling/affair is a red herring here.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

turnera said:


> She said that this time he left because he's angry. And that he doesn't want to work on anything.


That I get. I want to know if his leaving the first time was just because he couldn't handle the pressure. OR if there was something else going on such as:

he was cheating while she was recovering from cancer

she has cheated

other marriage problems they both contributed to

or anything else. 

It makes a difference on whether or not his anger is misplaced over her tryst with this other guy.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> I'm sure she will state it in her own way. I'm just saying stop making this ALL about what she did, and start making it about how they are BOTH being hurt. Her taking 100% of the blame for 5 years has only exacerbated their problems.


I agree she is only responsible what she did and he for what he did....

Both need to be responsible and both make a decision about moving forward together or apart.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

vellocet said:


> If that's true, I'd like clarification from her. That would make the difference in how most of us, I think, would see this.
> 
> But I keep asking the question and never an answer.
> 
> ...


One of her posts:


> When we split up 5 yrs ago, *he repeatedly said he was done, that he wasn't happy and hadn't been for a while.* We barely spoke for a month. At that point he called me and said he was confused, his world was spinning and he had no idea what he wanted. We sat and talked and discussed what we needed from each other in order to work on things. So for the next 5 mths of us "working on things" he would come here when he felt like it, didn't sleep here and didn't move home. To me, I felt like yes part of him wanted his family but part of him reallly didnt'. So yes I did see this other guy a few times during that time. It wasn't a serious thing and it happened a handful of times. I think i was hurt, confused and honestly it was a knee jerk reaction to what my husband was doing and how he was making me feel. He suspected things were going on with this guy adn yes, toward the end of us being separated I told him all. He was hurt and sad but we seemed to have moved beyond it. In the four plus years since all this we have worked hard to be more open, talk more, spend more quality time together. Now, for some reason this whole "affair" is fresh in his head and he's now feeling the anger he should have felt 4 1/2 yrs ago. In the past few years we have grown so strong and he acknowleges that but he can't figure otu what to do with this anger adn he knows it's crazy to be feeling it now and can't explain why he is.


It looks like that's all she got from him for a reason. I know, you want her to clarify that. But I think this is the best "why" we're going to get. Same reason given on a slew of other threads.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It looks like that's all she got from him for a reason. I know, you want her to clarify that. But I think this is the best "why" we're going to get. Same reason given on a slew of other threads.


I think its the best "why" we are going to get because for some reason we aren't going to find out "why" he said he is unhappy.

For some reason that question is being avoided.

Again, if its because of all the turmoil, then he needed to be a rock for his family.  And really, it is safe to assume this is why he said he was unhappy. 

But when the question is asked, and its avoided like the plague, red flags go up.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

vellocet said:


> I think its the best "why" we are going to get because for some reason we aren't going to find out "why" he said he is unhappy.
> 
> For some reason that question is being avoided.
> 
> ...


If they were separated, and he had already filed for divorce, (which I'm still not clear on) then I don't think he, any longer, had a say in her personal life, beyond how it might affect their children. But, that doesn't mean that it hurts him any less, now. His feelings would still need to be acknowledged, and validated. Though, using it as an excuse to up and leave, again, 5 years later, after they reconciled, with his full knowledge of her relationship with the other man, seems "off" to me.

I tend to feel a lot of empathy for the OP in this scenario. _But,_ I do have to add that it might be unreasonable to expect that he could truly be a rock for his family right after the death of his father, his mother's cancer diagnosis, and with the _potential_ loss of his job hanging over his head. Those are huge life changing events and they all happened very close together. Some people do have limits as too how much they can bear before they find themselves unable to cope in a healthy manner. Did we ever learn whether he actually lost his job? 

Finally, though, the one thing I can't understand is that when he was under such extreme stress, he ran away from his wife and kids, when most people would have turned towards the ones they were closest to, during that time. Yet, when his wife had cancer, he was there for her throughout her illness. 

It's very interesting. There are some people who are very strong for their family, _throughout stressful events,_ but who, ultimately, will collapse from the weight of it, after the initial crises has passed. I wonder if he fits that mold.

I don't always agree when TAMers suggest that a spouse should be introduced to TAM, but in this case, I think it might do this couple a world of good. The OP has a good amount of varied support, here, even if there are lots of unanswered questions, but I think her husband would likely find support, here, too.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I AM questioning why she wants to save this marriage.
> 
> I wish you would stop labeling women who disagree with you man haters. It is dismissive and rude. I don't label men who disagree with me mysogynists.
> 
> ...


OK - then your advice should be simple - go straight to D, eventhough the OP has repeated ad naseum, that is not what she wants

the OP H was wrong to leave, no doubt about it. However, you are totally ignoring any mitigating circumstances and you don't have his side. He needed help 5 years ago and didn't get it. We don't know enough of why he didn't get it. They were trying to work things out and apparently did.

He triggered when he saw the OM. So his feelings don't count? - that is my biggest complaint with your posts. The OP and her H feel this was an affair and he triggered. He needs help to get past this and she (the OP wants to help him). 

The fling/affair is not the only part of the story, but it is not a red herring. That is absurd, he clearly triggered over the encounter with the OM.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Over 300 posts in less than 48 hours.

A third of those have been removed.

This is ridiculous. The OP has exactly 22 posts on the site, all in this thread.

This isn't help and support. It's assault.

To scdp16, PM me if you want the thread reopened. If you do, that's fine.

I would suggest however that you craft a post that at least outlines the perceived struggles or circumstances surrounding your husband's need to leave the marriage 5 years ago, and what exactly he told you prior to choosing to leave again.

You have made it clear you want to salvage your marriage.

Do you have a clear statement of the same from him?

Have you set up individual or couples counseling to deal with the issues, that despite your efforts over the last 5 years, apparently were not as resolved on your husband's part as you had hoped.

Bottom line, you are asking the forum for help.

There isn't enough information about you, your husband, your marriage, or the circumstances that have prompted him to walk out on his family twice.


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