# two roads diverge...



## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

I have never thought it possible that I would be turning to a forum for help with my marriage or that I would ever need help at all, but I guess who does? Or why would we? That being said, I am lost and wonder if there is a direction to be found in any outlet so I will try them all to find a path.

Here is the backstory :

I met my husband in 9th grade. We have been in the kind of "be all end all love" that no one really believes in. Passion, and fun, and love, we have it all. I am not saying we have never had any problems. For goodness sake we met when we were teenagers, there has been angst and drama and love and fights. But we have always put the pieces back together in a way that made us stronger each time. We have been together since 1997 and married since 2001.

Problem #1 2005 : 
Some time after we got married, his mother died. Too soon, too young, and she was the glue that held his entire family together and an amazing woman. He understandably had a difficult time dealing with it. He started taking time off of work, understandable. And then I found out he was taking time off to be with his ex-girlfriend behind my back. She was at our house everyday. And with his family everyday. I was devestated because of the betrayl. He assures me it wasn't about sex. He wanted to be near someone who loved his mother (they were very close, and so were she and I). I could not understand why I was not enough to take care of him. Why did he need her? Why couldn't he come to me? We talked through it, got past it, got better, got GREAT again.

Problem #2 2007:
My husband gained a lot of weight between marriage and this point. (On a side note --weight is what killed his mother) I never found him less attractive. Our sex life has always been at least once a day if not multiple times. And it is always loving and good and fun. We don't get into ruts. He decided it would be a good idea to get into shape. We bought rollerblades. He broke his leg... During this time he continued to diet and lost something close to 100 pounds. He felt attractive again. I tried not to make a huge deal about it because I didn't want him to think I found him any less atractive while he was "fat" and he was so obsessed with loosing the weight I was kind of worried he may go overboard and get sick so I tried to make it seem unimportant I guess. During his time off from being injured, he found a girl online to tell him how attractive he was. He was texting her all day everyday. He assured me they were just friends. It went on for about 2 months. We even went to lunch with this girl. I started to become suspicious at one point and logged into his facebook and found a message to her that said, "I am dying without you, Baby Girl." and worse. I freaked. I called him immediately and told him to stay away from me. He came home from work and cried in the living room while I screamed at him. I didn't want to loose him, and I let him appologize for it. I also changed his password on FB and corresponded with this girl for some time to find out all of the details of their relationship. It was bad but not physical. Very emotional, and damn close to being physical. 

I truly believe he is sorry and enamored with me. I cant understand. I know people go through darkness and make mistakes. Things are again GREAT for a few years.

Problem #3 :

He gets laid off from work, and gets a new job. At this new job he begins to make new friends. He hasn't really had a close girl friend since Problem #2. The new friendship starts off on a lie. Not really a lie.. But an omission of truth. He started a friendship with a girl at work and didn't tell me anything about her. He brought her all his favorite music from the house and his favorite book to read. So he was thinking of her in the house, next to me, and not telling me. We tell each other everything and do everything together by the way. So he tells me when I start to find out. Tells me he didn't want me to think too much of it and was scared after he did it that I would be upset. Well it gets deeper and deeper this friendship. He starts showing me the emails they exchange. Showing me!!! And it is too much. It is like they are dating. Nothing sexual, but very emotional. And they have at this point, today, known each other a total of 3 months. I get uncomfortable and ask for some back off time. He says no. They are perfect best friends and he wants us all 4 to be happy together. She and her husband and he and I. The problems between us get worse. There are little things he says about her that kill me,
1. He used to draw a lot and hasn't for a while. He recently started again for her, and says, "Creativity must not only come from angst, but from extreme happiness."
2. "I wish you could find someone that makes you as happy as she makes me."
3. Tells her, "I wouldn't change a thing about you."
4. Tells her, "Did I tell you that your picture looks like a fairytale masterpiece?" (In fairness, it is a cool picture of her)
5. He says he loves her.
There are other things. Little things. Any ways, it seems like last time so we get worse and he tells her.. everything. The past problems and what I am going through now. She takes it upon her self to take herself out of the picture and he writes her the most beautiful letter about how well they fit as friends, how they are 5 year old buddies playing space pirates together, how (if she has a baby) he would like to be it's God parent. We aren't religious, and he does not want a child with me. He assures me that it is a weird and beautiful friendship and that he loves me and I am the center of his world and he would like me to share in his friendship, but I get jealous at every turn. He treats her so well. I asked him why last night that she is so WOW and he says, "It is like I got a new motorcylce." He loves motorcycles almost as much as me. I flipped at that statement. He says it was an exaggeration and he shouldn't have said it that way... but it seems it has been like this the whole time. I feel like I should just step aside and let them be together. He says he doesn't want her and he would never talk to her again if I asked.. but if he needs her and he is so much happier now... do I want to stand in the way of that. It seems I am the only one miserable in this situation. I don't know if it is because of past hurt or if the emotional boundry of friendship has truely been crossed here. I know that now I have cried so much over it, he feels like we may not make it. He says if I tell him how to fix it he will, but I don't know how. He cant take any of it back. It isn't like he thinks he made a mistake this time.. It isn't an "Im sorry I am wrong". He loves her and me and I don't know if I am capable of dealing with it. Should I be? Am I too broken to understand that it is just a wonderful friendship too often not found? I don't know what I know anymore.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

He is having emotional affairs looking for something. Not to say that you aren't providing all that you can, but you both need to find out what he is looking for.
I would demand that this stop and see a counselor as soon as you can.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

He needs to make a decision and live with it. Calmly explain to him that you choose to be #1 in someone's life. You are unwilling to share your man or compete with any other woman for his affection. You will not tell him who he can and can't talk to or how he should behave. He is an adult, responsible for his own actions. If he chooses to continue extramarital emotional or physical affairs, he is choosing to live without you. If he chooses to remain your husband, he must choose to do so 100%, every day, because you don't intend to deal with any future monkeybusiness. Nobody gets more than three strikes. If you two need to go to counseling to help him find contentment, you're willing to go, but if you aren't enough woman to keep him entertained, he needs to put his feet in the street and not look back.


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

So this is a third strike?? I should be viewing it that way?? Her husband and she and my husband don't have any issues with it... To be honest, as a couple, they would be great friends for us. If it weren't for the fact that she and mine were so deeply engrained in each other, it would be the funnest time of our lives. 

I am kind of playing devil's advocate because while I think it is too much to say some of the things he says to her and feel the way he does for her, but I need to know if it is or if I am jealous. I didn't expect everyone to take my side so quickly..... And if everyone takes my side then it is bad and our marriage in it's greatness is a falsity. If it is true, then can we be great??

I mean if it weren't for the first two betrayls would this still be wrong?? Am I grasping at straws so I don't have to give up the love of my life??


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## Marigold (Oct 29, 2010)

He is wrong to tell another woman that he loves her and he is wrong to be telling and writing intimate details of your marriage to another woman. 

This is not fair on you (or indeed on the other woman and her husband - imagine what her husband must feel...does he even know?). The fact that so are feeling so terrible and hurt over this is because he has crossed the line here, please don't feel unreasonable, he is not respecting your feelings and your position as his wife. 

I understand your emotions totally, my husband had an emotional affair (+/- also physical - I suspect this, he never admitted physical) and I also had to read internet messages and texts they had written to each other things like 'I miss you so much, I need to see you', 'i'm thinking of you every day' ' I love you xxxx' and also a pet name they used to each other....The pain was indescribable, please don't feel that you are unreasonable, truly what he is doing is way way way over the line. 

Is it possible that you have idolized this man and because you love him, you are finding it difficult to accept that he really has done something totally unacceptable because accepting that puts the whole marriage on the line? Please be strong, remember you are a lovely person and you deserve to be respected. If he can see how much you are hurting inside and he truly loves you, he will stop, irrespective of this other woman, he will put you first and stop this crazy 'friendship'


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

Marigold said:


> This is not fair on you (or indeed on the other woman and her husband - imagine what her husband must feel...does he even know?).


I have been under the assumption that her husband knows a lot more than I think he does. When talking to my husband, even he assumes that her husband had read the sweet, don't give up on our friendship letter. Today, I made him ask her. 

HIM:She has not let him read it. 12:19 PM 
ME: Did you ask her why? Did she ask you why? 12:22 PM 
HIM: No but I asked if she ever would. She said if it seemed appropriate she probably would. I'm not sure what that means. In the same question I asked what she thought he would say and got he would probably be curious and ask questions and then probably ask what is for dinner. She did not ask why. 12:34 PM 

I also asked if she has ever written him such a thing. He says no. Now I am feeling like maybe she wouldn't do anything wrong, but really likes the attention she is getting... Trust me I get that. He is really good at making someone feel like they are the center of the world when he wants to. I can see how she wouldn't want to show her husband and give that up.




Marigold said:


> Is it possible that you have idolized this man and because you love him, you are finding it difficult to accept that he really has done something totally unacceptable because accepting that puts the whole marriage on the line?


I do. I love him beyond what I ever imagined I could. Maybe to a fault it seems.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

he could be getting invloved with someone else, i dont know enough about you and him to say: yea, thats not how he usually acts. anyway, did you work out your past resetment? did he, thoes are the times you can remember the most. are thoes the times he thinks about? what if thoes things never bothered him, and his problem is something entirely different?

if he is still bothered by something, and he never said, then maybe he checked out a long time ago. you fixed what was bothering you but what bothered him?

my h and i have been together like that right out of school, and its hard to think you know someone then they do something completely out of their nature. 

you prob have to get to know one another again. people grow and change. find out if the love is trully gone and wont return, but thats your man, you already know what to do to get him back with you.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

You describe your relationship as a perfect relationship. Some people can put things into perspective, and be truly happy to the point of bliss. Deep down, hoever, that doesn't mean that he is capable of keeping true to that same perspective.

Everyone always told my wife that we had the perfect relationship. I was the dreamer, so I overlooked the little things. I wrote poems that were even published, took on the wondmills for her, and loved her to the best of my ability. One day, I realized that she had never once said anything positive about me as a person. Tons of critical, though. Never said 'I love you' unless it was in response to me. To her, it was perfect. But she barely knew me. And one day, when I really pushed, explaining how much I loved her, she admitted that she literally hates me at times. She has BPD.

Does your husband truly know you? If so, how could he do this repeatedly? I am not at all suggesting that he is like my wife, but the disparity between you two is becoming a trend. I can't help but think he's not worthy.


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

Maybe I am putting the whole thing up on a pedestool. Maybe it is a trend, and maybe he isn't worthy. 

It is hard to imagine that is truth becuase he is so good to me on every other occasion. Anyone I could talk to would tell me how "So in love he is with me." If this ends, there may be an earthquake in our tiny town since no one will have imagined it possible... they may all fall on the floor and cause seismic activity. 

He is never critical of me (except sometimes to say I have no logic but only in fun) 

He even tells Problem#3 about how much he loves me, and he honestly doesn't see a problem with the way he acts with her. But then again, he told Problem#2 that he loved me so much and would be devestated without me. It didn't stop either of them from continuing forward. 

I am to the point where I know I feel love in my heart and I know I feel love from him. I can feel it. But if it isn't the same love or if it is all a manipulation, I don't know how I can possibly handle that. The fairytale is a lie? OR too much for anyone else to possibly live up to??

This is a lesson on the world and life and love that I don't want to learn. I don't know how or why anyone would write love stories and poetry and music if it isn't real somewhere, somehow... I mean people latch on to ideas and it spreads I guess with no proof: religion, urban legends, internet rumors... Is love just an idea spawned by the romantic to torture everyone with??


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## Marigold (Oct 29, 2010)

I think love means different things to different people. I don't think the love that my husband felt for me was the same as what I was feeling for him.....also some people 'love to be in love'...could that be the case for your husband? does he enjoy to 'feel' his emotions and live them intensely?

....different people are happy and content with different levels of emotional intensity....is not the same for everyone, some people feel most happy when they are 'at peace'.... but it doesn't mean that those people don't experience love deeply, others don't feel alive unless they are living very intensely....I think that is just because we are all different...

...I might be rambling though....


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

So is it possible that we can both actually love each other, but he needs to love someone else sometimes?? 

He even says his feelings for anyone else *never* detract from me... And how could I ever even think that... 

Sometimes I question myself and my values based on how strongly he believes there is nothing wrong with his actions. I was even going to give in and try to live it his way (unless something actually came of Problem #3, and it turned out to be more than a great friendship), but I couldn't. Just making the decision drove me to know in my heart that I wouldn't be able to live that way.

So what do I do with that? I don't want to have to make up rules... I don't want to control him... I don't want him to not be himself and not live life to the fullest, and enjoy every minute of it....

If he can't understand the boundries, truely can't see them, then what will keep it from happening again??? And if I can't live without the boundries, where do I go? Lame.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

He is living under the illusion that if he is totally open there is nothing wrong with his behaviour. He is having an affair. He is hurting you. Put your foot down. Don't accept this.

I will also bet my bottom dollar that the husband has no idea how deep this 'friendship' is. Call him. Send him the letters, if everything is above board it shouldn't be a problem.


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

Everyone else in the situation seems ok with it. I know that her husband doesn't know about the super sweet one letter, but I don't know whether she showed him any of the "lets get to know each other" letters that were so intimate. I do know that he knows how much they text and that doesn't seem to be an issue. 

She has told my husband that they (she and her husband) don't have trust issues and they don't fight because they have a bond to God or something. She says he (my husband) has no idea how close she and her husband are. 

They don't act like us... They aren't sweet and cuddly when we are out. They don't spend a lot of time together. She has a ton of outside friends and activities as does he. It truly makes me wonder if the one thing she is lacking in her marriage is the "sweep me off my feet feeling"... 

I could not begin to tell you what my husband would be missing.

But irregardless, I don't want to get her in trouble or cause a dramatic scene. She isn't the one sending my husband sweetnesses.. just perpetrating it.

My only goal is fixing mine if I can, and being happy together forever if it is possible or finding out if it cant be and wont be so that I can go on with life in a different direction.

I hate that I was right, that it is wrong. I wish I could show him that it is wrong, but he has to decide that for himself. I almost went out and tried to show him how the shoe feels on the other foot, but I couldn't bring myself to do so... I could never. I wouldn't waste the love I have for him on vindication or winning an argument. If it is over, I have had what I had and really loved it (even if it wasn't as it seemed to me)... and that is probably more than most people get.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

4intheMorning said:


> I hate that I was right, that it is wrong. I wish I could show him that it is wrong, but he has to decide that for himself. I almost went out and tried to show him how the shoe feels on the other foot, but I couldn't bring myself to do so... I could never. I wouldn't waste the love I have for him on vindication or winning an argument. If it is over, I have had what I had and really loved it (even if it wasn't as it seemed to me)... and that is probably more than most people get.


Can certainly understand the temptation to show him how it feels. I admire your integrity and ability to try to build a perfect relationship, and am sorry this is happening.

Have you tried to tell him to imagine what it would be like if the situation were reversed?

Still, it is obvious that he is crossing the line when he seeks a relationship that mirrors the one with his wife, minus the sex. Problem is, most can't stop it at this stage.

If you decide so, he needs an ultimatum. A final ultimatum. One with consequences. Let him know there will be no number four.


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## 4intheMorning (Nov 19, 2010)

Update: 

I don't know who I am doing this for or if writing is giving me a theraputic outlet, but I guess it is whatever it takes.

We have talked at length. He understands that his actions were too much. He says he made it seem like it was more than it was. He "overstated his feelings". He doesn't see it as another "like last time" kind of thing because his intent was not a bad one.

He says he doesn't know who he is anymore, and he never wants to hurt me again, so he is thinking of seeing a therapist, but he cant promise that he can fix anything. 

I feel hopeful and hopeless. He doesn't really want to talk about anything. He will if I want to, but he doesn't have answers. He is happy to go on like nothing is wrong. He is saying he isn't her friend anymore. They work together. Closely.

I just want to shake him. Snap him out of it. Say look at what we are what we have... just stop. just understand. He knows we are amazing, but doesn't know if he can stop being selfish... I don't know what is really going on his head but I have to assume it isn't bad and that he is working on a solution. I try to keep that in my heart but I get scared. Why am I scared? I did nothing wrong. He should be so lucky to stay with me, but here I am. I can't even put up the Christmas tree because I am terrified I will have to take it down. What if we don't make it to then, to our vacation at the end of the year, to next year, to the rest of our lives. 

And then sometimes I forget and we are fine. I don't know what to do with that. I am glad I have a place to let it all come out. If it doesn't come out somewhere, I feel like I am going crazy.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

It just really sounds like he's wishing he could push the boundaries and see how far you will let it go. You made him uncomfortable, so he just put it in neutral for a while. From the pain in your words, its hard to see you being able to let it rest too long. Maybe you fear that he'll begin exploring the boundaries again.

Do you think he needs to declare once and for all where his heart stands in the relationship?

I don't mean this to be taken wrong, but one day, if he pushes too far, he'll really see how stupid he was all along. It's a pity he can't see this before its too late.


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