# Recent flood of "pro-affair" articles?



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

http://living.msn.com/love-relationships/love-sex/can-an-affair-save-your-marriage-some-experts-believe-so?_skipscp=true

Is it just me or has there been a recent flood of this drivel.

One thing stands out to me, they are all written from the perspective of the cheater...not the "cheatee". I can't find one iota of "benefit" for the betrayed spouse. EVERYTHING listed is for the benefit of the cheater.

It's like there's a movement trying to say "if your relationship is bad....cheat...that will force the issues to get fixed".....

How about promoting the ideas
1. If your not a monogamous person...don't get married...that's easy right?
2. If you have issues...address them..emphatically if need be including with the threat of divorce (as in take a sexless marriage...if we don't fix our physical intimacy issues I'm going to leave)
3. Stop trying to throw wordings like "puritanical views of marital infidelity" as a way to try and shade monogamy as something "evil" in order to push your agenda. How about we use words like "Gomorrean views of marital (in)fidelity" or "Succubian views of marital sexuality"

EDIT: I'm not discounting that a few select marriages haven't gone through the trial of fire that is infidelity and came out the other side stronger. It happens and I'm happy for those that can, but it's rare for a marriage to be healthy and happy after an affair.


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## PappyJack (Nov 1, 2013)

I don't think there are actually many more new pro cheater articles.

There have always been tons of them, at least, since I started reading in the 50's.

It's the red car phenomena. Buy a red car, you see lots of other red cars...

However, your suggestions have merit.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Can an affair save your marriage? Some experts believe so - MSN Living
> 
> Is it just me or has there been a recent flood of this drivel.
> 
> ...


....it's just the continuing trend toward the complete destruction of the concept of personal responsibility and integrity.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Can an affair save your marriage? Some experts believe so - MSN Living
> 
> Is it just me or has there been a recent flood of this drivel.
> 
> ...


No kidding.. I've seen a lot of these posts on the CWI forum this week. I've seen people saying things like "a non-cheater" is only a non-cheater because they have not cheated yet. Or, "monogamy is un-realistic". I mean, are these people on the right forum? And then they are shocked or offended when they get called out for their lax line of thinking. I do not understand it. I can be courteous and respectful, but I will never understand it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rushwater said:


> No kidding.. I've seen a lot of these posts on the CWI forum this week. I've seen people saying things like "a non-cheater" is only a non-cheater because they have not cheated yet. Or, "monogamy is un-realistic". I mean, are these people on the right forum? And then they are shocked or offended when they get called out for their lax line of thinking. I do not understand it. I can be courteous and respectful, but I will never understand it.


Rushwater, I think it's true to say that nobody ever believes they are capable of cheating. Right up until the point they are cheating and they think: "Surely this can't be me?!"


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Rushwater, I think it's true to say that nobody ever believes they are capable of cheating. Right up until the point they are cheating and they think: "Surely this can't be me?!"


MattMatt, I'm not sure exactly how to respond to you except to say, that I will disagree with you. Self control is self control. A person sees a piece of cake and they want to eat it but it will cause them to gain weight, but they eat it anyway. I'll eat some vegetables instead. You're surely not the first person who has inferred that everyone is a potential cheater. By that definition, everyone is a potential pedophile?; a potential serial killer? I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. I am 44 years old, and have had opportunities to cheat, even when my marriage was not at it's best. But I did not. Oh, so now you may be thinking that my situation was/is not bad enough to warrant cheating? No matter how bad my marriage would become, I would take all the steps necessary to remedy it. And if that failed, I would divorce. I love my babies too much to cheat on them, let alone my wife. That being said, you're welcome to dismiss my words, and go on thinking that we all have a "cheater" inside of us. I will go on, knowing that you are wrong.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Rushwater said:


> No kidding.. I've seen a lot of these posts on the CWI forum this week. I've seen people saying things like "a non-cheater" is only a non-cheater because they have not cheated yet. Or, "monogamy is un-realistic". I mean, are these people on the right forum? And then they are shocked or offended when they get called out for their lax line of thinking. I do not understand it. I can be courteous and respectful, but I will never understand it.


I can only make statements about myself. And I KNOW I would never cheat. But I also am not going to take the stance that there aren't people in the "grey area" about infidelity. 

Some cheating results from 1. a person with a "compromised" boundary (I couldn't think of a term that means they aren't against cheating as the core of who they are, not that it's wrong) and the right set of circumstances. 

My issue isn't the act itself (as wrong as it is) in regards to this topic, it's that infidelity seems to be growing as an issue.

Television shows are being made SPECIFICALLY about the topic, I've read more articles recently such as this one. Maybe I'm more aware, who knows.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I can only make statements about myself. And I KNOW I would never cheat. But I also am not going to take the stance that there aren't people in the "grey area" about infidelity.


Nope, sorry Dad&Hubby... according to other posters, you and I are potential cheaters who just have not yet been submitted to the set of circumstances.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Rushwater said:


> MattMatt, I'm not sure exactly how to respond to you except to say, that I will disagree with you. Self control is self control. A person sees a piece of cake and they want to eat it but it will cause them to gain weight, but they eat it anyway. I'll eat some vegetables instead. You're surely not the first person who has inferred that everyone is a potential cheater. By that definition, everyone is a potential pedophile?; a potential serial killer? I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. I am 44 years old, and have had opportunities to cheat, even when my marriage was not at it's best. But I did not. Oh, so now you may be thinking that my situation was/is not bad enough to warrant cheating? No matter how bad my marriage would become, I would take all the steps necessary to remedy it. And if that failed, I would divorce. I love my babies too much to cheat on them, let alone my wife. That being said, you're welcome to dismiss my words, and go on thinking that we all have a "cheater" inside of us. I will go on, knowing that you are wrong.


I don't think MattMatt is making the generalized statements a few others on this site have made about how we "all can cheat given the right stimuli". All he's saying is SOME are surprised that they can or have cheated.

I'm like you Rushwater. But I have an "overly developed" boundary about fidelity LOL. But I do understand the mindset MattMatt is discussing.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I don't think MattMatt is making the generalized statements a few others on this site have made about how we "all can cheat given the right stimuli". All he's saying is SOME are surprised that they can or have cheated.
> 
> I'm like you Rushwater. But I have an "overly developed" boundary about fidelity LOL. But I do understand the mindset MattMatt is discussing.


Look, I have nothing against MattMatt. But he is inferring something here.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Rushwater said:


> Nope, sorry Dad&Hubby... according to other posters, you and I are potential cheaters who just have not yet been submitted to the set of circumstances.


Here's my checklist from my first marriage

1. Sexless marriage for 2 years
2. Total lack of respect 
3. Manipulation and gradually stripping away from family
4. Fit almost all of the signs for emotional abuse
5. Had numerous nubile young things pursue me in that period of time.
(I could list out a LOT MORE) and I never even came CLOSE to cheating.

I did divorce though after trying to force "fixing the marriage". Then I explored those other avenues LOL.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I don't think MattMatt is making the generalized statements a few others on this site have made about how we "all can cheat given the right stimuli". All he's saying is SOME are surprised that they can or have cheated.
> 
> I'm like you Rushwater. But I have an "overly developed" boundary about fidelity LOL. But I do understand the mindset MattMatt is discussing.


Bear in mind that MattMatt has experience from both sides. If I recall his story correctly, his wife cheated on him first, he cheated too, although I think his was strictly an EA. You'll have ask Matt the details, but as you can see if given the right set of circumstances, anyone can succumb to temptation. 

Before you become all indignant and ask me how I can dare to question your ethics/integrity/morals, just remember that it's commonly accepted knowledge that the capacity to do evil exists in all of us. Why do you think there are so many sayings that dovetails with this theme of human weaknesses? "Pride goeth before the fall", "Everyone has a price", etc...?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Yes I've noticed a lot of articles and threads here, too.

I hear rationalization hamsters are prolific breeders.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bear in mind that MattMatt has experience from both sides. If I recall his story correctly, his wife cheated on him first, he cheated too, although I think his was strictly an EA. You'll have ask Matt the details, but as you can see if given the right set of circumstances, anyone can succumb to temptation.
> 
> Before you become all indignant and ask me how I can dare to question your ethics/integrity/morals, just remember that it's commonly accepted knowledge that the capacity to do evil exists in all of us. Why do you think there are so many sayings that dovetails with this theme of human weaknesses? "Pride goeth before the fall", "Everyone has a price", etc...?


I definitely have my issues that I can succumb to temptation. Just put a properly cooked rack of ribs in front of me or offer me a good Octoberfest and I'll struggle with saying no everytime. So yes..."evil" exists in me, but not when it comes to infidelity.

I'm sorry but not 'everyone' is open to committing infidelity. There are some people who never have and never will. More than you're willing to admit I would guess. Everyone has different levels of commitments to their beliefs. Mine happens to be a 10 against infidelity and 5 against a few foods I shouldn't eat but that I really enjoy. There are some people who NEVER cheat on their diet but will sleep with any number of people who aren't their spouse.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Rushwater, I think it's true to say that nobody ever believes they are capable of cheating. Right up until the point they are cheating and they think: "Surely this can't be me?!"


There are MANY of us who _know_ we aren't capable of cheating, *and never do so*.

I'm tired of people who cheat trying to paint all of us with the same "anyone is capable of cheating" brush. It just. isn't. true. Sorry!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I definitely have my issues that I can succumb to temptation. Just put a properly cooked rack of ribs in front of me or offer me a good Octoberfest and I'll struggle with saying no everytime. So yes..."evil" exists in me, but not when it comes to infidelity.
> 
> I'm sorry but not 'everyone' is open to committing infidelity. There are some people who never have and never will. More than you're willing to admit I would guess. Everyone has different levels of commitments to their beliefs. Mine happens to be a 10 against infidelity and 5 against a few foods I shouldn't eat but that I really enjoy. There are some people who NEVER cheat on their diet but will sleep with any number of people who aren't their spouse.


I'm with you on infidelity because I have no intentions of ever cheating on my wife nor she on me. But I also know that even the best of us are capable of failing at anything if the right circumstance comes up. Those circumstances can come in a variety of ways. If you're a happily married guy with a great sex life, great family and plenty of money, then I'm sure a woman making a pass at you is nothing more than an ego boost as you politely tell her "not interested". But put yourself in a bad situation and you or others may act differently. I get that you were in a bad situation for 2 years. You got out via divorce. That was a great way to handle it after you exhaust your attempts to fix it via communication. If you didn't get divorced and stuck to it and nothing changed after 3 years? 4 years? or maybe 5 years? Would you still have that rock of Gibraltar will to not cheat? I don't know. You will say you would be every bit as strong. I would have my doubts that the temptations wouldn't get stronger and stronger over time. 

I'm not saying that we would all cheat as a guaranteed outcome. But I am saying that there is doubt in all of us no matter how much we may lie to ourselves.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm with you on infidelity because I have no intentions of ever cheating on my wife nor she on me. But I also know that even the best of us are capable of failing at anything if the right circumstance comes up. Those circumstances can come in a variety of ways. If you're a happily married guy with a great sex life, great family and plenty of money, then I'm sure a woman making a pass at you is nothing more than an ego boost as you politely tell her "not interested". But put yourself in a bad situation and you or others may act differently. I get that you were in a bad situation for 2 years. You got out via divorce. That was a great way to handle it after you exhaust your attempts to fix it via communication. If you didn't get divorced and stuck to it and nothing changed after 3 years? 4 years? or maybe 5 years? Would you still have that rock of Gibraltar will to not cheat? I don't know. You will say you would be every bit as strong. I would have my doubts that the temptations wouldn't get stronger and stronger over time.
> 
> I'm not saying that we would all cheat as a guaranteed outcome. But I am saying that there is doubt in all of us no matter how much we may lie to ourselves.


I'm sorry, that's just not always the case. After the living hell of being a BS, there is no way I'd ever wish that shock, panic, battering of your self-esteem, loss of innocence, and destroyed ability to trust on my worst enemy. How in the world could I do it to someone I'm supposed to love?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But I also know that even the best of us are capable of failing at anything if the right circumstance comes up.


Nope. Again - this simply isn't true. Countless people have had the opportunity, the motive, the desire, the impulse, the "right circumstances" to cheat- *AND DON'T*.

No matter how many times you type it - it doesn't make it true.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm with you on infidelity because I have no intentions of ever cheating on my wife nor she on me. But I also know that even the best of us are capable of failing at anything if the right circumstance comes up. Those circumstances can come in a variety of ways. If you're a happily married guy with a great sex life, great family and plenty of money, then I'm sure a woman making a pass at you is nothing more than an ego boost as you politely tell her "not interested". But put yourself in a bad situation and you or others may act differently. I get that you were in a bad situation for 2 years. You got out via divorce. That was a great way to handle it after you exhaust your attempts to fix it via communication. If you didn't get divorced and stuck to it and nothing changed after 3 years? 4 years? or maybe 5 years? Would you still have that rock of Gibraltar will to not cheat? I don't know. You will say you would be every bit as strong. I would have my doubts that the temptations wouldn't get stronger and stronger over time.
> 
> I'm not saying that we would all cheat as a guaranteed outcome. But I am saying that there is doubt in all of us no matter how much we may lie to ourselves.


But I wouldn't wait 3 years, 4 years etc. See that's the flaw in the argument. I make choices. I choose to not cheat. I choose to not wait arbitrarily for 5 or 10 years and then justify my actions. If my current marriage followed a similar path, I'd do the same thing. I'd exhaust EVERY possible situation to make the marriage work and if it was impossible, I'd leave. Me leaving would serve the same wake up call as me cheating, just without the level of pain and betrayal my spouse would feel.

Using unrealistic situations in order to prove your case is weak at best.

If you were in a horrible marriage for 20 years without sex and then got stranded on an island with a victoria secrets model who was also a nympho, while also reading a letter in a bottle that said your wife died in a car accident...I'd bet you'd cheat then.....


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

The title alone is .... I mean for me, anyone who cheats on me is gone, there are no second chances concerning this. I couldn't imagine living with those mind movies for the rest of my life...I don't care if her vagina is made of gold, she's just not worth it.

IMO, any "expert" who thinks cheating could save marriages is trying to save the wrong kind of marriages. People stay together for all kinds of reasons, but I'm only interested in staying with someone who's compatible and loves me. I'm not staying for the kids (it doesn't help them), I'm not staying so I won't have to split assets (money isn't everything to me) and I'm not staying because "we've been together for so long" (history repeating itself is no future). 

Pretty simple, you cheat on me, I'm busting outa' Shawshank. Bu-bye.

Honestly, I don't see many positives to marriage any more, and chit like this just makes it less enticing.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Let me address one thing I can agree with Plan 9 from OS about...your wording.

You are right when you use the words "capable" "susceptible" etc.. so I will grant you that. The difference is the actual actions of a person. The same could be said for murder or any other heinous crime. But again, it's the actions of the person that they choose.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

And if a spaceship landed...

Come on, guys. Are we all tempted? Of course. We're hard-wired to notice attractive people. I notice women all the time and I know I would never cheat. Whether I linger on her and ogle and make a move to say hello is entirely on me. Yes the attraction is hard-wired. But that's as far as biology takes it. The rest is free will.

There are honorable ways out of bad situations, even if divorce is not on the table for whatever reason. You can (though I could never) agree to an open marriage, for example.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Let me address one thing I can agree with Plan 9 from OS about...your wording.
> 
> You are right when you use the words "capable" "susceptible" etc.. so I will grant you that. The difference is the actual actions of a person. The same could be said for murder or any other heinous crime. But again, it's the actions of the person that they choose.


I think we agree more than anything, because that is my point. We are all capable of doing it, and if the circumstances are right it could happen. I never stated that you or any single poster will do it as a guaranteed outcome if things get bad enough. As a whole, all of us are susceptible. And sadly, some of us to succumb to it as a means to cope with a bad marriage. It surely doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean that the person was flawed from birth and always had a "cheaters gene" or is "fundamentally broken in an unknown way", etc. No doubt that there are a breed of cheaters that are evil personified. I believe that the majority of cheaters are not hell spawn roaming the earth. Now are most of them weaker in their convictions? Perhaps. And perhaps they are even lying to themselves by thinking they are stronger than they really are. Again, I don't know. All I do know is that (IMHO) most cheaters don't plan nor intend to go out there and bang other people. They succumb to those temptations for a variety of reasons. I believe that most of the reasons they would have are based upon bad situations that they are experiencing in their marriages. 

Why they don't divorce if it's so bad? I have a number of thoughts on that - such as still loving their spouse, not wanting to break up a family and fearing the unknown. I think mostly it comes down to 1 and 2 in my little list. Those are very powerful reasons to keep plugging away at a bad marriage, so it stands to reason why a cheater "cake eats".


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Rushwater, MattMatt et al, I was the one who made the post I think you're referring to, and I think you're misconstruing what I meant when I said that no one is a "cheater" until they cheat. My point was in response to a thread that seemed to be dividing the world into "cheaters" and "non-cheaters." I believe that people who don't cheat make a continual CHOICE not to cheat, I don't believe it's just something in their "nature." I'm not saying that no one is capable of continuing to choose not to cheat, I just think that people often ultimately rationalize bad moral decisions to themselves with the mindset that they're not "the sort of person" who does "that sort of thing."


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> We are all capable of doing it, and if the circumstances are right it could happen.


There you go again, LOL! "We are all capable". "It could happen". How come it doesn't for so many of us?

Because we have FREE WILL and _choose_ not to cheat.

Speak for yourself - not the rest of us loyal spouses. Mmkay?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

People who are in the business of selling magazines publish pieces that will sell magazines. Why do romance novels sell? Because that is what women want to buy.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think we agree more than anything, because that is my point. We are all capable of doing it, and *if the circumstances are right it could happen*. I never stated that you or any single poster will do it as a guaranteed outcome if things get bad enough. As a whole, all of us are susceptible. And sadly, some of us to succumb to it as a means to cope with a bad marriage. It surely doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean that the person was flawed from birth and always had a "cheaters gene" or is "fundamentally broken in an unknown way", etc. No doubt that there are a breed of cheaters that are evil personified. I believe that the majority of cheaters are not hell spawn roaming the earth. Now are most of them weaker in their convictions? Perhaps. And perhaps they are even lying to themselves by thinking they are stronger than they really are. Again, I don't know. All I do know is that (IMHO) most cheaters don't plan nor intend to go out there and bang other people. They succumb to those temptations for a variety of reasons. I believe that most of the reasons they would have are based upon bad situations that they are experiencing in their marriages.
> 
> Why they don't divorce if it's so bad? I have a number of thoughts on that - such as still loving their spouse, not wanting to break up a family and fearing the unknown. I think mostly it comes down to 1 and 2 in my little list. Those are very powerful reasons to keep plugging away at a bad marriage, so it stands to reason why a cheater "cake eats".


the problem lies within the bold statement : "if the circumstances are right it could happen"
even if the circumstances are wrong still it could happen. you know why because *it has nothing to do with the circumstances*. it's 100% the person's choice. everything else is just excuse to ease the burden, to remove guilt , shame.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I can only make statements about myself. And I KNOW I would never cheat. But I also am not going to take the stance that there aren't people in the "grey area" about infidelity.
> 
> Some cheating results from 1. a person with a "compromised" boundary (I couldn't think of a term that means they aren't against cheating as the core of who they are, not that it's wrong) and the right set of circumstances.
> 
> ...


I knew I'd never cheat and then, well, I did. (Stupid, booze-fuelled revenge EA, but it was still cheating.)


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rushwater said:


> Nope, sorry Dad&Hubby... according to other posters, you and I are potential cheaters who just have not yet been submitted to the set of circumstances.


I'm sure you could cheat if the circumstances were "right". If you can avoid the circumstances, you might never cheat.

As for the idea that willpower will prevent you from cheating, that's incorrect. Willpower gets weaker the more it is used unless you get a break to "recharge" it. Too many hard choices will make you weaker. And I bet even you would sometimeschoose the dessert over the veggies if you were dead tired and had to cook those veggies versus just put a slice of dessert in your mouth.

Perhaps you are incapable of cheating - some people may just be wired that way despite temptation. Most, however, are not. And the most adamant naysayers are often the most susceptible, as they haven't developed the defenses that those who sometimes are tempted have needed to learn.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I'm sure you could cheat if the circumstances were "right". If you can avoid the circumstances, you might never cheat.
> 
> As for the idea that willpower will prevent you from cheating, that's incorrect. Willpower gets weaker the more it is used unless you get a break to "recharge" it. Too many hard choices will make you weaker. And I bet even you would sometimeschoose the dessert over the veggies if you were dead tired and had to cook those veggies versus just put a slice of dessert in your mouth.
> 
> Perhaps you are incapable of cheating - some people may just be wired that way despite temptation. Most, however, are not. And the most adamant naysayers are often the most susceptible, as they haven't developed the defenses that those who sometimes are tempted have needed to learn.


Pure hogwash. My mother had numerous affairs on my father. It got so bad that she included us children (there were 5 of us) in on her deception. It was heinous, despicable and unforgiveable. I will never, EVER forget the look on my dad's face when he discovered that we children had known for YEARS that mom was cheating with another man. It destroyed my family. Oh, she convinced all of us at how abusive my dad was. When it became evident that was NOT the case, she convinced us that he neglected her. The affects from said cheating and deception, haunt me to this day in ways that would require in-depth therapy. This has nothing to do with being "hard-wired". It's about witnessing up close and personal, the raw damage that a cheater inflicts on their spouse and children that remains with them for the majority of their life. No. You can try to convince others that any of us are capable of "cheating" if the circumstances are "right". The problem with your theory is, those of us that will not cheat, prevent the "circumstances" from ever getting there. If it got so bad that the marriage was hopeless: divorce, recovery, back to dating. I CHOOSE not to cheat because of the damage it causes others. I CHOOSE not to cheat because, I will have to answer for it when I face my Creator. Short of someone drugging me, tying me down, forcing Viagra down my throat and wearing a mask that looks like my wife, what you are suggesting is pure fiction.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Rushwater said:


> You're surely not the first person who has inferred that everyone is a potential cheater. By that definition, everyone is a potential pedophile?; a potential serial killer? I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. I am 44 years old, and have had opportunities to cheat, even when my marriage was not at it's best. But I did not.


So true. This kind of thinking (i.e. everyone is a potential cheater when opportunities presents) makes it seems like those who cheats are the pimple-ridden kids at school who, now that they are grown (and married), will cheat as soon as some hottie pays him/her some attention. So pathetic. Some people have a healthy self-esteem and no matter how many hottie hitting on them, they say NO.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> People who are in the business of selling magazines publish pieces that will sell magazines. Why do romance novels sell? Because that is what women want to buy.


Acute observation. Women are hungry for romance. They are hard wired to allure or seduce the most alpha male they fantasize they can tame to stay with them. When a woman gives up this dream she has sex for pleasure, short term self esteem boost and/or material gain.

Few fathers are proud of a daughter who has become a porn star, even if she has wealth and a steady boyfriend. This moral judgment is biologically programmed into our genes.

Men have an emotion stake in sex and romance but is proportionally smaller, hence male cheaters are often willing to reconcile while WAW are not.

Is there a separate realm of free will and moral choice? Yes, of course. But the significance of these values only comes home to us because even good people fail to uphold them. 

If the only cheaters were men and women of a different race or creed of **** sapiens and all the loyal spouses could recognize each other by secret handshakes and knowing glances, we would quickly divide countries in half and seal the borders to rid us of ourselves.

There are all sorts of cheaters. The best example of this on TAM is Dana who had an affair with her tennis instructor and left her millionaire husband for the smooth talking jock.

That was in 2008. Now the TAM BH's wife is with the tennis pro player, a new sad story. However, in retrospect one can see that Dana's first husband was a real cruel POS. He refused to divorce her and split their assets.

How do we know about Dana's husband? Well today prosecutors are going after part of his financial institution for unethically and illegally preying on people in debt. He buys debt and then sets human hounds to chase them down, ignoring law and decency. 

How would such a man be towards a wife who fell out of love with him?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Michael Formica, in his YourTango article "4 Types of Infidelity and How Affairs Help a Marriage", states the that "an affair can add fizz to a flat partnership — what was once stale gets refreshed by a new energy."


:slap:

:rofl:



Healer said:


> There you go again, LOL! "We are all capable". "It could happen". How come it doesn't for so many of us?
> 
> Because we have FREE WILL and _choose_ not to cheat.
> 
> Speak for yourself - not the rest of us loyal spouses. Mmkay?


Plan 9 is correct

Everyone has their breaking point, and it's better to acknowledge and identify one's temptations, weaknesses so affairs can be better prevented than to proclaim one's immunity.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think we agree more than anything, because that is my point. We are all capable of doing it, and if the circumstances are right it could happen. I never stated that you or any single poster will do it as a guaranteed outcome if things get bad enough. As a whole, all of us are susceptible. And sadly, some of us to succumb to it as a means to cope with a bad marriage. It surely doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean that the person was flawed from birth and always had a "cheaters gene" or is "fundamentally broken in an unknown way", etc. No doubt that there are a breed of cheaters that are evil personified. I believe that the majority of cheaters are not hell spawn roaming the earth. Now are most of them weaker in their convictions? Perhaps. And perhaps they are even lying to themselves by thinking they are stronger than they really are. Again, I don't know. All I do know is that (IMHO) most cheaters don't plan nor intend to go out there and bang other people. They succumb to those temptations for a variety of reasons. I believe that most of the reasons they would have are based upon bad situations that they are experiencing in their marriages.
> 
> Why they don't divorce if it's so bad? I have a number of thoughts on that - such as still loving their spouse, not wanting to break up a family and fearing the unknown. I think mostly it comes down to 1 and 2 in my little list. Those are very powerful reasons to keep plugging away at a bad marriage, so it stands to reason why a cheater "cake eats".


I would say "agree" is a strong word LOL. My use of the word capable is literally "having the ability". I have the ability to insanely heinous acts (yes you can use the darkest part of your imagination for that) but I won't and never would.

When I say susceptible, I'm only speaking of someone being in an environment more conducive to promoting an activity. It's like saying a woman who goes out dancing is more susceptible to cheating than a woman who goes out to the movies. It's true as a general rule, but not necessarily to individual people.

I people on my side ("I have never and will never cheat") are looking at your comments as an individual issue of themselves where you're speaking in general terms which goes by the averages within the population and not specific individual people. I TRY (and often fail LOL) to not generalize for that very reason. Your statements are generalizations though and not a sweeping "EVERYONE can cheat if given the right set of circumstances" (as in literally every adult who can be sexually active).

I won't debate your generalization because I do believe the percent of people who would allow themselves to cheat based on circumstances is probably north of 50%, but I know I'm not on that list.

I also recognize I'm "different" when it comes to sex and relationships. I can't have a ONS. I don't mean I won't, I literally mean I PHYSICALLY CAN'T. I've had opportunities, and learned some embarrassing lessons about myself when I was 18 LOL. I need emotional connection and "love" to have sex.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_I'm sure you could cheat if the circumstances were "right". If you can avoid the circumstances, you might never cheat.
_

At one point in my relationship my BF was being a bad BF I was at a college party really wasted one night a guy I was friends with wanted to have sex.

I could have done it that night and my BF would have never known about it.

I could have had a full blown affair if I wanted to but I didn't.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

lovelyblue said:


> _I'm sure you could cheat if the circumstances were "right". If you can avoid the circumstances, you might never cheat.
> _
> 
> At one point in my relationship my BF was being a bad BF I was at a college party really wasted one night a guy I was friends with wanted to have sex.
> ...


Exactly. It's the choices we make that define us, not the stimuli or circumstances that surround us.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

user_zero said:


> the problem lies within the bold statement : "if the circumstances are right it could happen"
> even if the circumstances are wrong still it could happen. you know why because *it has nothing to do with the circumstances*. it's 100% the person's choice. everything else is just excuse to ease the burden, to remove guilt , shame.


One of the key 'circumstances' is the person that cheats has a desire to cheat, the choice they make that they are enjoying the boundary crossing.. the extra attention, and screw the spouse because they've built up tons of resentment and excuses to justify it... They know what they are doing, and choose to do it. Someone that doesn't cheat, knows what they are doing, and choose to not do it. Some people that don't cheat, do it because they know they'll have to look at themselves in a mirror eventually, and would prefer to continue liking what they see..


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Stronger-now said:


> So true. This kind of thinking (i.e. everyone is a potential cheater when opportunities presents) makes it seems like those who cheats are the pimple-ridden kids at school who, now that they are grown (and married), will cheat as soon as some hottie pays him/her some attention. So pathetic. Some people have a healthy self-esteem and no matter how many hottie hitting on them, they say NO.


Some of us don't cheat because we don't want to hurt the one we love and our needs are more than met. As a matter of fact when someone doesn't respect out significant other it causes a huge loss of attraction.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

I've been here for a year and a half. So many times, I've seen people refer to cheating as a mistake, then be violently corrected that it was a CHOICE, and not a mistake. 

My question is this: If you CHOOSE to cheat, then does that not mean that you also choose NOT to cheat?

I choose not to. Period.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I've been here for a year and a half. So many times, I've seen people refer to cheating as a mistake, then be violently corrected that it was a CHOICE, and not a mistake.
> 
> My question is this: If you CHOOSE to cheat, then does that not mean that you also choose NOT to cheat?
> 
> I choose not to. Period.


Yes, I choose not to cheat because I want to protect myself from doing anything I will regret and hurting others. I'm selfish like that.. I do it for me, so I can look in the mirror and like what I see.

... and yes, I have had many 'circumstances' and perfect storms, even old crush offering herself up in a situation where it would have been one time, nobody would know etc... I ran like hell. I've had ladies try to become friendly.. I would tell them about my wonderful wife and how happily married I was to shut it down. It's a choice. Do you think some of my needs weren't being met when my wife was cheating for half a decade?

I got hit on in the supermarket yesterday... I was flattered, but I didn't cheat.


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