# Singles of TAM 2018



## Ynot

The other two Singles thread have over a 1000 posts each. So I thought I would start one for the new year (about three weeks too late)
Here is my update for the new year:
I broke up with my most recent GF the day after Christmas. It was a mutual thing. I had been feeling like the walls were closing in and there were a few red flags that I had been trying to ignore. She said she just stopped feeling "it". We decided to part as friends, and have since done a few things and texted occasionally. In fact I am supposed to see her at a MeetUp on Thursday.
In the meantime, I have realized that I had been spending a lot of time doing relationship stuff and not enough time on me stuff. So I have taken this opportunity to refocus on me and my wants.
One of the things that I have realized about myself and what may have become an issue in my most recent relationship was this kernel of anger that still festers inside of me about how everything went down during my divorce. I realize that I really need to snuff that out so that I can begin to truly enjoy my new life. So that is one of the things I am working on.


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## bkyln309

Ynot: Working through your anger is a great place to start. Relationships in the future will benefit from that being resolved.


My update: Still with the Older Man. Every time I decide to tell him lets be friends something happens to change my mind. Not sure what I am going to do. He still isnt involved with my kids except for sharing a meal or two. He does make me happy even if I cannot see ever living together or getting married. But I am not sure I want to do either of those in the future with anyone. 

Work life is good. I have made some new friends and social life is improving. 

2017 was a bad year but here's to 2018!


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## MovingForward

I still have anger at times towards my XW and how I was treated but life is good mostly and still seeing my girlfriend and everything is progressing nicely.

Reading is something i do often on relationship advice and other peoples stories, i want to ensure I never put myself in the position I put myself with my XW but also not have that stop me from being in another good relationship.


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## TheGoodGuy

well I'm not single but I do like keeping up with you crazy kids. So I'm subscribing to this thread. People are still posting to the other one as well so it might be good to put a link to the new one and then lock the old one.


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## RandomDude

The thread needs a kick start... hmm...

Well guys! 

I was flirting with a married woman today, and I have no shame. Thinking of tapping her since she's been pretty full on.


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## Bananapeel

I guess I'll add to this thread. I had a great date last Sunday night ;-) and recently had a few totally hilarious online conversations with a couple of women. I'm almost thinking about posting them, but I'd hate to give up really good material that I might need in the future.


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## Middle of Everything

RandomDude said:


> The thread needs a kick start... hmm...
> 
> Well guys!
> 
> I was flirting with a married woman today, and I have no shame. Thinking of tapping her since she's been pretty full on.


Are you sure shame is the word you are looking for?


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## bkyln309

Bananapeel said:


> I guess I'll add to this thread. I had a great date last Sunday night ;-) and recently had a few totally hilarious online conversations with a couple of women. I'm almost thinking about posting them, but I'd hate to give up really good material that I might need in the future.


Please post them!!


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## Bananapeel

Edit - in case I want to reuse this material later


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## Ynot

I have been messing around with OLD as well. Some very interesting conversations to say the least.
So I went out with a woman on a second date over the weekend. After seeing a band we stopped at another bar for a night cap, where we had the "conversation". As we were leaving she proceeds to tell me she has genital herpes. Ok, so that was a bucket of cold water on that night.
Today I was chatting with a 50 year old woman. She asked what defined me. Later I asked her. She said 'being a mother". Ok, so how many kids and how old are they? She told she had just one, he was 26 and she hopes he gets a full time job soon. She isn't the first woman I have met with mid-20's children still at home. I am beginning to wonder if keeping a kid around is a way to put off life.
OTOH, it has been fun working on my communication skills.


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## Um Excuse Me

Ynot said:


> So I went out with a woman on a second date over the weekend. After seeing a band we stopped at another bar for a night cap, where we had the "conversation". As we were leaving she proceeds to tell me she has genital herpes.


Ahhh yes, the gift that keeps on giving....:soapbox:


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## Ynot

Um Excuse Me said:


> Ahhh yes, the gift that keeps on giving....:soapbox:


I guess. She told me she got it from her ex who never told her. I have no reason to doubt her. Really I felt bad for her, she didn't ask for this to happen. I still declined to move forward, it appears that 1 out 6 people knowingly carry the virus. But it has been estimated that as many as 80% of us are carriers but have never had an outbreak or been tested.


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## RandomDude

Whao there... *1 in 6 ?!*


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## Livvie

I like my eye doctor and next time I go I might ask him out!


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## chillymorn69

RandomDude said:


> The thread needs a kick start... hmm...
> 
> Well guys!
> 
> I was flirting with a married woman today, and I have no shame. Thinking of tapping her since she's been pretty full on.


Along with no shame comes with no class.

Knowingly partisipating in ruining a marriage and maybe a family is vile.

Imo.

Not that my opinion matters.


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## RandomDude

chillymorn69 said:


> Along with no shame comes with no class.
> 
> Knowingly partisipating in ruining a marriage and maybe a family is vile.
> 
> Imo.
> 
> Not that my opinion matters.


Hehe - it doesn't! But it helps grow the thread!


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## Blacksmith01

I started out this year by getting back with my old FWB. We have been friends for years. I know that she want's more but doesn't have her ducks in a row. I also am having a hard time with the way she did me in the past. Her and I have talked about it some but it really didn't help. As you would expect from friends we have a lot of the same interests and we are very compatible in the bedroom. I know that she wants more from me but it is not there to give. I mean she went ghost on me last time for over a week then got pissy with me because she met someone else from her home town and had so much in common. Even planing on getting married. I wished her the best of luck. A month later they had broke up as he couldn't get it up. lol. She talked to me a little bit after but then pushed me away hard as she tried to make it work with an ex bf of 10yrs. She cut it off with him when she realized it was a game she couldn't win. I do enjoy her company but I really don't think it can be anything more that that. Even if she has learned her lesson.


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Whao there... *1 in 6 ?!*


That is ratio of people who have been tested with positive results, it doesn't include all of those who may carry but never been tested or had an outbreak which is estimated to be upwards of 80% of the population or 4 out 5!


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## Ynot

Blacksmith01 said:


> I started out this year by getting back with my old FWB. We have been friends for years. I know that she want's more but doesn't have her ducks in a row. I also am having a hard time with the way she did me in the past. Her and I have talked about it some but it really didn't help. As you would expect from friends we have a lot of the same interests and we are very compatible in the bedroom. I know that she wants more from me but it is not there to give. I mean she went ghost on me last time for over a week then got pissy with me because she met someone else from her home town and had so much in common. Even planing on getting married. I wished her the best of luck. A month later they had broke up as he couldn't get it up. lol. She talked to me a little bit after but then pushed me away hard as she tried to make it work with an ex bf of 10yrs. She cut it off with him when she realized it was a game she couldn't win. I do enjoy her company but I really don't think it can be anything more that that. Even if she has learned her lesson.


I have had the opposite experience. My GF and I broke up between Xmas and NYE. Because we were spending too much time together and not getting anything done for our selves. Since then we have gotten together a few times. The last time we were out we were talking about how we both missed the conversations we used to have. I mentioned I missed the sex too. She agreed. So about an hour later we were at my place knocking boots.


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## Blacksmith01

Ynot said:


> I have had the opposite experience. My GF and I broke up between Xmas and NYE. Because we were spending too much time together and not getting anything done for our selves. Since then we have gotten together a few times. The last time we were out we were talking about how we both missed the conversations we used to have. I mentioned I missed the sex too. She agreed. So about an hour later we were at my place knocking boots.


Oh no her and I are like bunny rabbits. What I meant was that I really don't think it will be anything more that that. She has brushed me to the side more than a few times going after an easy win or bigger better deal.


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## Ynot

Blacksmith01 said:


> Oh no her and I are like bunny rabbits. What I meant was that I really don't think it will be anything more that that. She has brushed me to the side more than a few times going after an easy win or bigger better deal.


When we were BF/GF we used to go at it like rabbits too. But we both were spending way too much time on the relationship and not enough time on ourselves. She is going to school to be certified as a teacher. She didn't take any classes thru the fall. I had plans for my house that I never even started on. Now it is just whenever our schedules permit.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> That is ratio of people who have been tested with positive results, it doesn't include all of those who may carry but never been tested or had an outbreak which is estimated to be upwards of 80% of the population or 4 out 5!




Have you been tested? It is not included in a standard STD panel. You have to ask for it specifically. 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Have you been tested? It is not included in a standard STD panel. You have to ask for it specifically.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have never been tested for any STDs.


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## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> That is ratio of people who have been tested with positive results, it doesn't include all of those who may carry but never been tested or had an outbreak which is estimated to be upwards of 80% of the population or 4 out 5!


Argh... so I checked out the stats for my country, it's one in 8 >.<

Maybe I should stick to the hand! :crying:


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I have never been tested for any STDs.




*mike drop*


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Argh... so I checked out the stats for my country, it's one in 8 >.<
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I should stick to the hand! :crying:




I dunno...have you been tested? Might open up a whole new dating avenue for you 


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## RandomDude

Elizabeth001 said:


> I dunno...have you been tested? Might open up a whole new dating avenue for you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How does being tested for an STD open up a whole new dating avenue for me? lol

Or you mean like close 7 doors to open 1? >.<


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## Blacksmith01

Ynot said:


> I have never been tested for any STDs.


Get tested ASAP.


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## Ynot

Blacksmith01 said:


> Get tested ASAP.


Why? I don't get tested for a new drivers license every time I drive my car. You have a greater chance of being in a traffic accident than you do getting an STD.


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## Livvie

Ynot said:


> Blacksmith01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get tested ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? I don't get tested for a new drivers license every time I drive my car. You have a greater chance of being in a traffic accident than you do getting an STD.
Click to expand...

Where did you get this statistic?


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## doobie

Here's my story of the last year or so. Having left my abusive drunkard of a husband 2.5 years ago, by the beginning of last year I had started a relationship with a guy whose marriage split up not long after mine. We spent nearly a year getting to know each other well before it became physical. We spent a lot of time together but I was aware that he seemed quite emotionally needy and would turn up on my doorstep when things got too much for him. About three months into last year, he turned up one day (we'd been out earlier in the week) and told me that the previous evening he'd begun an affair with a married woman, whose other long-term lover (not her husband) was now incensed about it and out to get him. 

I then joined Tinder and had dates with a few different guys. Two of these were really nice men, very interesting and the conversation was great, but they were just visiting the country I live in. We've kept in touch as friends and I see one of them whenever he visits my country - we go out for a meal or a drink, enjoy each other's company, but I don't fancy him at all, it really is just a friends thing.

Then I went on another date with a guy who lives locally - we had dinner and he seemed really nice. Conversation was a little stilted as his English, though very good, wasn't fluent. No matter, we arranged to go and see a band together the following week. I met him out on the main road through the village and we drove to the bar where the band was playing. We seemed to have a nice evening, I had only one drink and didn't get up to dance much as I was conscious that it would be rude to leave him sitting alone at the table. When the evening came to an end, we got in his car to go home and I asked him to drop me at the end of my street. He pulled the car over, lunged at me and wouldn't stop kissing me, though I kept trying to push him off. His hands kept going down my top and grabbing my boobs, I was fighting him off. Eventually, I managed to open the door, get out of the car and I was gone.

I got home, deleted my Tinder account and have barely left the house since then. I've refused most invitations from friends to go out (friends are always married couples) unless it's a lunch invitation, in which case I go on most occasions to meet up with a woman friend of mine who lives about 50km away and wouldn't get to see her otherwise.

I go out walking sometimes during the day, sometimes call into a local cafe/bar for a coffee - I know the owner really well and he always looks out for me. I go walking with a guy friend who visits this country regularly when he's here - he's 20 years younger than me, so there's no romance or anything involved - he's just a really good friend, a guy whom I trust. Other than that, I tend to stay in with the door locked nowadays. A new guy has moved in a couple of doors away - he's well educated, speaks great English and keeps inviting me in for a coffee - I keep refusing and will only speak to him out of doors. I have noticed that he always seems to smell of booze, no matter what time of day it is. 

It's quite common nowadays for me to go two or three weeks at a time without actually speaking to anybody, other than when I visit the local shops. I feel like a hermit but have become so aware of the need to ensure that I don't take risks, etc, that I'm finding it really difficult to snap out of this and am becoming more and more isolated and alone (but at least I'm safe).


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## Ynot

Livvie said:


> Where did you get this statistic?


Google it -
2,000,000 new cases of STDs in 2016 vs 5,500,000 car accidents.


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## RandomDude

But most car accidents you can recover from, minus the ones folks die or get disabled. STDs have no cure  

And if you have sex you pass it around like a plague >.<

Give me a car accident anyday! Just let me have sex


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> But most car accidents you can recover from, minus the ones folks die or get disabled. STDs have no cure
> 
> And if you have sex you pass it around like a plague >.<
> 
> Give me a car accident anyday! Just let me have sex


Actually the vast majority of STDs do have a cure in antibiotics. Plus if you do the least bit of research you will find that in the case of Chlamydia, the huge majority of these cases are in those 25 years and younger or in the case of Syphilis of Gonorrhea the vast majority are among men having sex with other men. So unless you are part of either of those groups, go have fun. There is no need to live your life cowering in fear.


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## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> Actually the vast majority of STDs do have a cure in antibiotics. Plus if you do the least bit of research you will find that in the case of Chlamydia, the huge majority of these cases are in those 25 years and younger or in the case of Syphilis of Gonorrhea the vast majority are among men having sex with other men. So unless you are part of either of those groups, go have fun. There is no need to live your life cowering in fear.


Errr, genital herpes, which you mentioned is 1 in 6 in your country (1 in 8 in mine), has no cure... :|

Not to worry though, 'tis why I stick to FWBs not ONSs, and only go skin to skin on the most trusted partners. So far, so good


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Errr, genital herpes, which you mentioned is 1 in 6 in your country (1 in 8 in mine), has no cure... :|
> 
> Not to worry though, 'tis why I stick to FWBs not ONSs, and only go skin to skin on the most trusted partners. So far, so good


Yabbut 80% of the population carries the virus. 1 out 6 are just the numbers of the ones who have been tested/had outbreaks. You can carry the virus for years and never have an outbreak nor know you have it.

But no problem, like many of the fearsome dangers we face, much of the hype is designed to suck money out of the unsuspecting by scaring the crap out of them.

So continue to enjoy!


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## RandomDude

Ey? Think I'll worry about it if I start growing spots anywhere on my body. 

I'm clean and I wanna keep it that way!


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Ey? Think I'll worry about it if I start growing spots anywhere on my body.
> 
> I'm clean and I wanna keep it that way!


Yeah, me too. Besides if you hang out with the right people you greatly lessen your chances.


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## Red Sonja

doobie said:


> Then I went on another date with a guy who lives locally - we had dinner and he seemed really nice. Conversation was a little stilted as his English, though very good, wasn't fluent. No matter, we arranged to go and see a band together the following week. I met him out on the main road through the village and we drove to the bar where the band was playing. We seemed to have a nice evening, I had only one drink and didn't get up to dance much as I was conscious that it would be rude to leave him sitting alone at the table. When the evening came to an end, we got in his car to go home and I asked him to drop me at the end of my street. He pulled the car over, lunged at me and wouldn't stop kissing me, though I kept trying to push him off. His hands kept going down my top and grabbing my boobs, I was fighting him off. Eventually, I managed to open the door, get out of the car and I was gone.


I am so sorry that happened to you. It’s happened to me too, on more than one occasion, once outside in broad daylight.

Don’t become a hermit or let these types cause you to live in fear. Take a self-defense class, they are many simple moves that take no real strength that cause enough pain for these louts to let go of you long enough for you to get away. There’s also mace as small as a lipstick tube that can be concealed in your hand. I carry a small military-type flashlight that will blind someone temporarily and the bezel can be used as an impact weapon if necessary ... it's always in my hand.

If you are prepared, your confidence will return. Hugs.


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## RandomDude

OMG I missed that >.<

Highly recommend JJJ or Muay Thai or both. Or Krav Maga, stick to practical martial arts. Those have techniques I found most useful and practical on the street, regardless of size and strength ratio.

For now, he lives locally? Tell people, and also where he lives. Subhuman rapists like that need to be made examples of.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Yeah, me too. Besides if you hang out with the right people you greatly lessen your chances.




How do you know you’re clean? What about HPV & HIV? Drugs have a good hold on HIV now but I hear they are VERY expensive and you’re still a carrier. 

And...who exactly are these “right people”, how did you know they are “right people”? How would a “right person” feel if you’re a carrier of anything and pass it on? I bet the vast majority of these “right people” have been tested. 

Wow dude...my respect meter for you dropped about 98% today. 


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## FeministInPink

@doobie I'm also sorry to hear that this happened to you. I was also sexually assaulted on a date when I was dating post-divorce. In fact, I posted about it on the original Singles thread--other TAMers here will remember. And talking about it here helped me a lot.

We've all had bad experiences dating, and we hear you.

But you can't let fear rule your life. That's no way to live. It can be hard, because you're scared that it may happen again, and you don't know who, and you don't know when. But living the way you have been since this incident is not good for ypu, and it's very limiting.

I agree with the other posters that you should seek put some self-defense training. This will help boost your confidence, knowing that you can defend yourself if you find yourself in such a situation again.

I would also strongly recommend seeing a therapist, because you clearly have a lot of anxiety now, and you need to learn how to deal with that in a healthy way. Turning into a hermit because of your anxiety isn't healthy.

I would also recommend checking out a book called "How to Spot a Dangerous Man." I want you to read this because from the few examples you've given, it sounds like your picker may be a little off. I think this book will give you a little more confidence and guidance in that area.

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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> How do you know you’re clean? What about HPV & HIV? Drugs have a good hold on HIV now but I hear they are VERY expensive and you’re still a carrier.
> 
> And...who exactly are these “right people”, how did you know they are “right people”? How would a “right person” feel if you’re a carrier of anything and pass it on? I bet the vast majority of these “right people” have been tested.
> 
> Wow dude...my respect meter for you dropped about 98% today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am sorry to hear that. But if you read the actual reports you find, that most cases are limited to select populations or activities. What I meant to say was if you avoid those populations or people engaging in those activities you stand a much lower chance of ever contracting anything. There is no guarantee that some one who has been tested won't pass something to you.

So, no I don't hang around with people who use IV drugs, I don't engage in man on man sex, I don't engage in sex with multiple people at once, for instance. My chances of ever contracting anything has been radically reduced from whatever it was. Unless you have a test completed every time BEFORE you have sex with another person, you can never be absolutely sure.

I am sorry if you lost respect for me.


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## RandomDude

Elizabeth001 said:


> How do you know you’re clean? What about HPV & HIV? Drugs have a good hold on HIV now but I hear they are VERY expensive and you’re still a carrier.
> 
> And...who exactly are these “right people”, how did you know they are “right people”? How would a “right person” feel if you’re a carrier of anything and pass it on? I bet the vast majority of these “right people” have been tested.
> 
> Wow dude...my respect meter for you dropped about 98% today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ey? Choosing more trusted or conservative individuals and/or having a more conservative lifestyle and/or wearing condoms does help to minimalise the risk, so does sticking to the hand. Risk is still there sure, unless your hand has herpes!

I can live with having a trusted sexual partner reveal that she had an outbreak, but I can't live with catching herpes while not adequately protecting myself. 

What is your suggestion? That he sleeps around skin to skin with everyone he gets to bed?


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Ey? Choosing more trusted or conservative individuals and/or having a more conservative lifestyle and/or wearing condoms does help to minimalise the risk, so does sticking to the hand. Risk is still there sure, unless your hand has herpes!
> 
> 
> 
> I can live with having a trusted sexual partner reveal that she had an outbreak, but I can't live with catching herpes while not adequately protecting myself.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your suggestion? That he sleeps around skin to skin with everyone he gets to bed?




RD...condoms do not protect you from herpes. Both of you guys come across as pretty uneducated on the subject. Good luck with that. 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> RD...condoms do not protect you from herpes. Both of you guys come across as pretty uneducated on the subject. Good luck with that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


80% of the population carries the virus. And Condoms do protect you from herpes. It is in fact a recommended method to control the spread of the virus. Others recommendations are to not have sex at all during outbreaks and to wash exposed parts with soap and water profusely. But none of them are 100% fail safe.
I have educated myself about the virus. I have gone well beyond reading headlines which hype the issue to sell advertising. Based on my research I refuse to live my life in abject fear. Rather I choose to take the necessary precautions and live my life.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> 80% of the population carries the virus. And Condoms do protect you from herpes. It is in fact a recommended method to control the spread of the virus. Others recommendations are to not have sex at all during outbreaks and to wash exposed parts with soap and water profusely. But none of them are 100% fail safe.
> I have educated myself about the virus. I have gone well beyond reading headlines which hype the issue to sell advertising. Based on my research I refuse to live my life in abject fear. Rather I choose to take the necessary precautions and live my life.




Herpes is spread from skin to skin contact. If someone’s site preference (where their virus prefers to shed with or without symptoms) is in an area that is not covered by the condom (which only covers the shaft of the penis), the condom does NOTHING to protect the non-infected person. 

ETA: Some people are asymptomatic and have no idea when they are shedding and I’m sure a great portion of those folks don’t know they have it. 

Your body, your choice but don’t misunderstand the facts and rely on the myths 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Herpes is spread from skin to skin contact. If someone’s site preference (where their virus prefers to shed with or without symptoms) is in an area that is not covered by the condom (which only covers the shaft of the penis), the condom does NOTHING to protect the non-infected person.
> 
> ETA: Some people are asymptomatic and have no idea when they are shedding and I’m sure a great portion of those folks don’t know they have it.
> 
> Your body, your choice but don’t misunderstand the facts and rely on the myths
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I already acknowledge that 80% of the population may be carriers! So what is one to do? Live in abject of fear of the world? Avoid all contact with all people? Wear a full body hazmat suit? Or exercise appropriate precaution and get on with their life?


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I already acknowledge that 80% of the population may be carriers! So what is one to do? Live in abject of fear of the world? Avoid all contact with all people? Wear a full body hazmat suit? Or exercise appropriate precaution and get on with their life?




** see last paragraph of last post 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> ** see last paragraph of last post
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, but you seem intent on promoting the myth.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I agree, but you seem intent on promoting the myth.




What myth? I’m sticking to facts. 

When I referred to myths, I was talking about you saying that condoms protect you from herpes, which is simply not true. 

One of the biggest myths is that if someone isn’t having an active outbreak, they can’t pass it on. That’s one of the biggest myths of all. Ask me how I know!




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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> What myth? I’m sticking to facts.
> 
> When I referred to myths, I was talking about you saying that condoms protect you from herpes, which is simply not true.
> 
> One of the biggest myths is that if someone isn’t having an active outbreak, they can’t pass it on. That’s one of the biggest myths of all. Ask me how I know!


So do I! I just don't limit myself to the cherry picked ones used to hype headlines to sell ad space.

I already know all those facts. Yet:

https://www.webmd.com/genital-herpes/news/20090713/condoms-help-cut-risk-of-genital-herpes

And since I am not gay or bisexual, do not have sex with women under the age of 50 (younger than 24 being the majority of the new cases), nor hang around with people who use IV drugs, I have dramatically lowered my chances of getting an STD.

If you have herpes. I am truly sorry for you.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> So do I! I just don't limit myself to the cherry picked ones used to hype headlines to sell ad space.




No no no. You are most definitely NOT sticking to facts, as I have already clearly pointed out twice. If you’re seeing cherry picked headlines, you are researching on the wrong sites. 


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> So do I! I just don't limit myself to the cherry picked ones used to hype headlines to sell ad space.
> 
> I already know all those facts. Yet:
> 
> https://www.webmd.com/genital-herpes/news/20090713/condoms-help-cut-risk-of-genital-herpes
> 
> And since I am not gay or bisexual, do not have sex with women under the age of 50 (younger than 24 being the majority of the new cases), nor hang around with people who use IV drugs, I have dramatically lowered my chances of getting an STD.
> 
> If you have herpes. I am truly sorry for you.




Oh please. Do not feel sorry for me...I’m good 

Btw...my “giver” didn’t fall into any of those categories either. You know... he was a “right” kind of person 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> No no no. You are most definitely NOT sticking to facts, as I have already clearly pointed out twice. If you’re seeing cherry picked headlines, you are researching on the wrong sites.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok if you say. I have done my research. Most cases of STDs are amongst those 24 and younger, gat and bisexual men and/o IV drug users. I have never said there is no chance that I could still get something, but I am NOT in the high risk groups so I refuse to live my life afraid of something that in all probability will never happen. 

The cherry picked headlines are when they hype an "explosion in infections" and cite some statistic about a 25% increase. Then you go look at CDC data and find out that, that 25% increase means the rate went from something like 6 per thousand to 7.5 per thousand which is well within their own margin of error.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Ok if you say. I have done my research. Most cases of STDs are amongst those 24 and younger, gat and bisexual men and/o IV drug users. I have never said there is no chance that I could still get something, but I am NOT in the high risk groups so I refuse to live my life afraid of something that in all probability will never happen.
> 
> 
> 
> The cherry picked headlines are when they hype an "explosion in infections" and cite some statistic about a 25% increase. Then you go look at CDC data and find out that, that 25% increase means the rate went from something like 6 per thousand to 7.5 per thousand which is well within their own margin of error.




I do understand the point you are (trying) to make. The key word for me is “most”. I know factually that I fell outside the parameters of “most”. As long as you are aware of your risks, then the outcome is on you, just as it was for me. To each their own. 

However...when you are saying in a FACTUAL way that condoms protect you from hsv and that sex with no active outbreak is okie-dokie, then I feel a certain humanitarian duty to tell people who might be reading that, that it’s a crock of sh*t. 

I get you...I really do. I was fresh out of a long term marriage and ready to **** like a bunny too. I definitely learned a life-long lesson though. Be careful dude...some life lessons are just that, life LONG lessons. 

Good luck...I’m out of this conversation. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

How about we change the topic? STDs aren't really a good topic for a singles thread!

Let's talk about... oh that's right, the married woman who I'm flirting with


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Well, not to interrupt these scintillating topics of conversation....

Thought I would say hi, as I've been MIA for awhile. Seems that we have started over again (the thread).

I can't really add anything exciting because I am doing exactly nothing fascinating lately.


----------



## john117

As a recent member of the single community at 58, I really don't care about dating, relationships, and the such. Ok it's only been six weeks but I really don't think much of it. 

I enjoy the peace and quiet of the McMansion as I'm fixing it up for sale later on. I can take 3 days to fix drywall MY WAY. This isn't SpaceX launch stress. It's fun.

Today I'm cooking chili in the Crock-Pot. Looks good. I'll run the bread machine and be good for a few days. 

I'll save on flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day. Grrreat. I'll bring donuts for the lab team at work.

This is what I want for my 60th birthday in a couple years. 

https://youtu.be/4n2_dRiG8wg


----------



## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> I can't really add anything exciting because I am doing exactly nothing fascinating lately.


Me either, all I can think of is my evil deeds lol



john117 said:


> As a recent member of the single community at 58, I really don't care about dating, relationships, and the such. Ok it's only been six weeks but I really don't think much of it.
> 
> I enjoy the peace and quiet of the McMansion as I'm fixing it up for sale later on. I can take 3 days to fix drywall MY WAY. This isn't SpaceX launch stress. It's fun.
> 
> Today I'm cooking chili in the Crock-Pot. Looks good. I'll run the bread machine and be good for a few days.
> 
> I'll save on flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day. Grrreat. I'll bring donuts for the lab team at work.
> 
> This is what I want for my 60th birthday in a couple years.
> 
> https://youtu.be/4n2_dRiG8wg


Last V-day I was on vacation with my then-girlfriend, got her flowers and we proceeded to **** like rabbits several times during the day, and again at night, and the morning of the next day. My GF at the time said that our local tour guide mentioned that I even inspired him to do the same by buying flowers for his fiancee! lol

Ah... good times


----------



## Hope Shimmers

john117 said:


> As a recent member of the single community at 58, I really don't care about dating, relationships, and the such. Ok it's only been six weeks but I really don't think much of it.
> 
> I enjoy the peace and quiet of the McMansion as I'm fixing it up for sale later on. I can take 3 days to fix drywall MY WAY. This isn't SpaceX launch stress. It's fun.
> 
> Today I'm cooking chili in the Crock-Pot. Looks good. I'll run the bread machine and be good for a few days.
> 
> I'll save on flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day. Grrreat. I'll bring donuts for the lab team at work.
> 
> This is what I want for my 60th birthday in a couple years.
> 
> https://youtu.be/4n2_dRiG8wg


A MINI Cooper race car? Hmmm.

I'm doing the same thing you are. Fixing up the McMansion to sell. It has 5 bedrooms and a theater room. There are rooms in this house that I haven't gone into in months. Whole families could be squatting here and I wouldn't even know it.

I never want a big house again. I'm thinking about buying an RV and touring the US or else maybe getting one of those tiny houses.


----------



## john117

It's a racing inspired car - John Cooper Works is a customizer like AMG, Shelby, etc. Some more horsepower but vastly better handling and other components. Not too bad for low mid $30's.

I'm not into the RV lifestyle yet, tho it's intriguing. I need to work another 6-7 years at least, and now it's fun times in my industry.


----------



## Andy1001

john117 said:


> As a recent member of the single community at 58, I really don't care about dating, relationships, and the such. Ok it's only been six weeks but I really don't think much of it.
> 
> I enjoy the peace and quiet of the McMansion as I'm fixing it up for sale later on. I can take 3 days to fix drywall MY WAY. This isn't SpaceX launch stress. It's fun.
> 
> Today I'm cooking chili in the Crock-Pot. Looks good. I'll run the bread machine and be good for a few days.
> 
> I'll save on flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day. Grrreat. I'll bring donuts for the lab team at work.
> 
> This is what I want for my 60th birthday in a couple years.
> 
> https://youtu.be/4n2_dRiG8wg


You could at least send a card to the intern mom.
Any movement on that front?


----------



## john117

Andy1001 said:


> You could at least send a card to the intern mom.
> Any movement on that front?


Not really. I'm playing the patient game on this front.


----------



## Andy1001

john117 said:


> Not really. I'm playing the patient game on this front.


I hate to see any man (or woman) missing out on a full sex life.
I keep telling you not to sell the McMansion,to a lot of women a big house with one man living in it is a magnet.And this is speaking from experience.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Andy1001 said:


> I hate to see any man (or woman) missing out on a full sex life.
> I keep telling you not to sell the McMansion,to a lot of women a big house with one man living in it is a magnet.And this is speaking from experience.


I don't think it's a magnet. Unless she likes to clean. Or maybe because she thinks she's getting a rich guy?

Who is the intern mom? (Sorry if this was in one of the other iterations of this thread and I missed it)


----------



## RandomDude

Andy1001 said:


> I hate to see any man (or woman) missing out on a full sex life.
> I keep telling you not to sell the McMansion,to a lot of women a big house with one man living in it is a magnet.And this is speaking from experience.


Hahaha yeah but using it as a magnet will make you question why the woman is with you in the first place


----------



## Andy1001

RandomDude said:


> Hahaha yeah but using it as a magnet will make you question why the woman is with you in the first place


You’re thinking long term relationship dude.
I’m not.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I didnt realize we had another singles thread going!  Hey ya'll...


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> I didnt realize we had another singles thread going!  Hey ya'll...


We should have our own sub-forum. So that you don't have to weed thru 4 or 5 other on-going conversations. Life After Divorce takes on many different meanings for many different people.


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> As a recent member of the single community at 58, I really don't care about dating, relationships, and the such. Ok it's only been six weeks but I really don't think much of it.
> 
> I enjoy the peace and quiet of the McMansion as I'm fixing it up for sale later on. I can take 3 days to fix drywall MY WAY. This isn't SpaceX launch stress. It's fun.
> 
> Today I'm cooking chili in the Crock-Pot. Looks good. I'll run the bread machine and be good for a few days.
> 
> I'll save on flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day. Grrreat. I'll bring donuts for the lab team at work.
> 
> This is what I want for my 60th birthday in a couple years.
> 
> https://youtu.be/4n2_dRiG8wg


Welcome to the club?


----------



## john117

Andy1001 said:


> I hate to see any man (or woman) missing out on a full sex life.
> I keep telling you not to sell the McMansion,to a lot of women a big house with one man living in it is a magnet.And this is speaking from experience.


Ehem, it's joint ownership  Neither of us is interested in buying out the other. All I want is my share of the proceeds and half the stuff. That won't be hard as we have enough furniture and crap for 4 houses. 

I get to keep the Keurig machine, I'm the only one who can clean it. What a pain..


----------



## john117

Hope Shimmers said:


> I don't think it's a magnet. Unless she likes to clean. Or maybe because she thinks she's getting a rich guy?
> 
> Who is the intern mom? (Sorry if this was in one of the other iterations of this thread and I missed it)


I'm not wealthy like the Koch brothers but I'm very well off. Nice solid job, income, education... 

She's about the only person I know that's intelligent enough for my taste and available. We'll see how it plays out a year from now.


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> Welcome to the club?


Not yet, officially at least. Dating and drywall are not very compatible


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> Not yet, officially at least. Dating and drywall are not very compatible


You don't have to be dating. You just have to be free


----------



## Bananapeel

Red Sonja said:


> I am so sorry that happened to you. It’s happened to me too, on more than one occasion, once outside in broad daylight.
> 
> Don’t become a hermit or let these types cause you to live in fear. Take a self-defense class, they are many simple moves that take no real strength that cause enough pain for these louts to let go of you long enough for you to get away. There’s also mace as small as a lipstick tube that can be concealed in your hand. I carry a small military-type flashlight that will blind someone temporarily and the bezel can be used as an impact weapon if necessary ... it's always in my hand.
> 
> If you are prepared, your confidence will return. Hugs.


Mace/pepper spray in a car is not going to feel good for either of you. A kubotan for your keys is a much better choice. Or even better, just meet out at the location with each of you driving yourself until you feel comfortable being alone around the man. I always do that for a first date anyway, because I don't want some crazy woman stalking me at my house.


----------



## RandomDude

I hate how western countries make it practically illegal to defend yourself these days. I had to resort to learning grappling techniques and only forcing them to submit (after I have my fun torturing and humiliating them first) instead of the fun of beating them to a pulp like in the old days. 

It just makes me feel bad for the people who aren't trained in unarmed and vulnerable to all this sh-t, especially women.


----------



## RandomDude

Ah crap... turns out this lady is ripe for an affair, husband pulled a bait and switch. Not sure if I can resist the temptation if she ever made a move, at first it was just a fun fantasy and casual fun-flirts, now it's a real opportunity. A part of me says "who cares, their marriage is not your problem, if she cheats, it's going to be with someone else, if not you, someone else." Another part of me says "its just wrong, will cause drama, break up a marriage", the latter being the weaker voice.

Decisions decisions...


----------



## Red Sonja

RandomDude said:


> I hate how western countries make it practically illegal to defend yourself these days. I had to resort to learning grappling techniques and only forcing them to submit (after I have my fun torturing and humiliating them first) instead of the fun of beating them to a pulp like in the old days.
> 
> It just makes me feel bad for the people who aren't trained in unarmed and vulnerable to all this sh-t, especially women.


Who wants to grapple? I just make a quick strike that causes maximum (debilitating) pain or lands them on their ass and then GTF away from them. I have no delusions that I can overpower a man in a grappling contest.


----------



## RandomDude

Red Sonja said:


> Who wants to grapple? I just make a quick strike that causes maximum (debilitating) pain or lands them on their ass and then GTF away from them. I have no delusions that I can overpower a man in a grappling contest.


You can, it's not all strength  Basic techniques also help you get out of grapples themselves.

I guess I resorted to it (and grew a liking to it) due to the assault/battery charges in previous years. I even heard of a man being sued because he beat up some people trying to mug him.

Though true, rarely hear of men pressing charges on women who kicked their butt however, thankfully.


----------



## TooNice

I have a friend circle question for you. I have been on my own for 3.5 years; officially divorced for three as of next week. I've shared much of my dating life here - lots of men with 1-4 dates, a few 3 month relationships. Nothing lasting or with long term potential - and some of that is admittedly due to my own issues - but not all of it. 

In my group of very good friends, I have friends who have never been married, and friends who are divorced and dating. (And some of those friends are with people they met during their divorce processes - they have not actually had to enter the dating pool!) I feel like a complete jerk for saying this, but I feel like I get bombarded sometimes, with the good and the bad for several of them. From the "oh my gosh, I am so freaking happy with this person - what did I do to deserve this? to the "why do I destroy everything I touch"? reactions.

Forgive my short rant, but I got the short straw in the marriage department. My story is pretty crappy. And dating has genuinely sucked. But I am at peace and happy and love the woman I have become. I have male friends (unavailable ones) who I trust and respect tell me what an amazing woman I am and how some man is going to be so lucky to find me one day. One recently even looked at me in disbelief and said he cannot believe I haven't been snatched up yet.

I pride myself on being a good friend, and always want to be there when people need me. But how do you all deal with the days when you just want to tell someone to please consider their audience when covering some of this? I am truly happy for my friends who are happy... but some days it is so difficult to hear about it. And when they want advice... clearly I am no expert in this subject!

Honestly, I feel like a horrible person for saying anything, but I would love some feedback from some of you. I simply adore my friends, but I don't even feel like I can relate to any of them.


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> I have a friend circle question for you. I have been on my own for 3.5 years; officially divorced for three as of next week. I've shared much of my dating life here - lots of men with 1-4 dates, a few 3 month relationships. Nothing lasting or with long term potential - and some of that is admittedly due to my own issues - but not all of it.
> 
> In my group of very good friends, I have friends who have never been married, and friends who are divorced and dating. (And some of those friends are with people they met during their divorce processes - they have not actually had to enter the dating pool!) I feel like a complete jerk for saying this, but I feel like I get bombarded sometimes, with the good and the bad for several of them. From the "oh my gosh, I am so freaking happy with this person - what did I do to deserve this? to the "why do I destroy everything I touch"? reactions.
> 
> Forgive my short rant, but I got the short straw in the marriage department. My story is pretty crappy. And dating has genuinely sucked. But I am at peace and happy and love the woman I have become. I have male friends (unavailable ones) who I trust and respect tell me what an amazing woman I am and how some man is going to be so lucky to find me one day. One recently even looked at me in disbelief and said he cannot believe I haven't been snatched up yet.
> 
> I pride myself on being a good friend, and always want to be there when people need me. But how do you all deal with the days when you just want to tell someone to please consider their audience when covering some of this? I am truly happy for my friends who are happy... but some days it is so difficult to hear about it. And when they want advice... clearly I am no expert in this subject!
> 
> Honestly, I feel like a horrible person for saying anything, but I would love some feedback from some of you. I simply adore my friends, but I don't even feel like I can relate to any of them.


What kind of feed back are you looking for?


----------



## TooNice

Ynot said:


> What kind of feed back are you looking for?


Do others feel this way, too? How do you deal with it? 

I'm not a person who typically feels sorry for herself, but these conversations often leave me feeling as though everyone is finding someone but me. Or on the flip side, feeling out of touch with friends who want to rant about dating and try to compare their past relationships of 2 years or less to my 21 year marriage...

I just feel like a bad friend for even complaining about it. I guess I'd like to know that others maybe experience it, too.


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Do others feel this way, too? How do you deal with it?
> 
> I'm not a person who typically feels sorry for herself, but these conversations often leave me feeling as though everyone is finding someone but me. Or on the flip side, feeling out of touch with friends who want to rant about dating and try to compare their past relationships of 2 years or less to my 21 year marriage...
> 
> I just feel like a bad friend for even complaining about it. I guess I'd like to know that others maybe experience it, too.


I have a brother who is "happily" married. If he ever listened to his own stories, he would probably have a different opinion about being "happy". I have given up doing anything but simply listening. Many of my married friends are the same way. I keep reminding myself that misery loves company.

I do feel out of sync with many of my friends. It seems that they have never taken the time to get to know who they are and feel this overwhelming need to with someone. I am getting to the point of just being comfortable with who I am. Maybe someone will come along to enjoy the journey. But it will only happen when if I put myself out there. It won't happen if I sit at home crying. Or, probably even worse, if I allow myself to be tied down in a less than satisfying relationship just so I can say I am with someone.

I am like you, about 3.5 years out. I am just now getting to my comfort zone with myself. Just remember that all of those dates and the short term relationship are your way of finding yourself. There is no reason to allow others, whether they be friends, family or potential mates to pressure you into commitment if you are not ready. So don't blame yourself, rather be happy you are single and not settling (because I am sure there are a few people you know who really are, but just putting on that "happy" face)


----------



## RandomDude

ARGH... diversity quotas... bah! Already I'm pissed at how all businesses are encouraged by "social justice BS" to add people from all colors and genders and to not do so is considered racist and sexist. Yet even when I try to chill at home, it's in the media and entertainment. Just when I thought I'd relax and enjoy a new historical game set in 15th century Bohemia, I hear folks trying to push a boycott of it because there's no black people as well as female heroines! What the hell?! This isn't 15th century America FFS! "I just learnt about 15th century Bohemia today, there were black people, and brown people, and yellow people, and female warriors, and transverstites, and gays, all holding hands and singing songs about rainbows in church!"... bah! FACTS are FACTS >.<! Because the developer won't entertain such idiocy, he gets called a racist and sexist. 

What the hell is with people and "representation"? Even in historical fiction? Do they want to rewrite history? Burn books? Bah, leftist nazis 

/end random vent


----------



## TooNice

Ynot said:


> I have a brother who is "happily" married. If he ever listened to his own stories, he would probably have a different opinion about being "happy". I have given up doing anything but simply listening. Many of my married friends are the same way. I keep reminding myself that misery loves company.
> 
> I do feel out of sync with many of my friends. It seems that they have never taken the time to get to know who they are and feel this overwhelming need to with someone. I am getting to the point of just being comfortable with who I am. Maybe someone will come along to enjoy the journey. But it will only happen when if I put myself out there. It won't happen if I sit at home crying. Or, probably even worse, if I allow myself to be tied down in a less than satisfying relationship just so I can say I am with someone.
> 
> I am like you, about 3.5 years out. I am just now getting to my comfort zone with myself. Just remember that all of those dates and the short term relationship are your way of finding yourself. There is no reason to allow others, whether they be friends, family or potential mates to pressure you into commitment if you are not ready. So don't blame yourself, rather be happy you are single and not settling (because I am sure there are a few people you know who really are, but just putting on that "happy" face)


Thank you - this does help. And I have definitely reached a point where I am comfortable with myself, and I have stopped actively dating. Online dating is not good for my self esteem! I am enjoying focusing on me, and my health and fitness, but I admit that the loneliness still creeps in, especially when I attend events where I am the only single person. But all of that aside, I had two incidents yesterday that really set this off - one was a friend who has NOT taken time to rediscover herself post divorce. I love her dearly, and get sad for her when she struggles in her relationship. I love her partner as well, but they both dove headfirst into this before their divorces were even filed. Of course issues are going to come up for them - neither of them took time to heal. But I try to help her whenever she needs me. And I try to celebrate with her when things are great, too. I only wish sometimes that she would consider what it feels like from my perspective.

My other friend has never been married, and I found myself counseling her last night because she was in tears after being gently let go after 3 dates with a man. 3 dates. I happen to be good friends with the man she went out with, too. She told me that she can't remain friends with him because she is too hurt by the fact that he told her he is attracted to her, but is not sure what he wants, and ultimately doesn't want to harm our friend circle. Sigh. Maybe I am hardened a bit, but that just doesn't seem worth losing a friendship over. My brain doesn't work that way. And now I am also sad for my male friend - he will be disappointed to have lost a friend because he wanted to get to know her better. (Mind you, this whole time I felt that she is not emotionally strong enough for him, but did not think it was my place to say anything. If he had asked me directly, I would have said something.) I tried to help my friend see that this should be an opportunity for her to learn and grow. I told her that as much as I have disliked dating at points, I have always been grateful for the new men I have met - I have learned something about myself, and about what I want from every encounter. I hold no ill will toward any man who has been kind enough to say that we simply don't have the connection he is looking for. I would hope that works both ways in the the times I have said that myself. My friend told me outright last night that she is not mature enough to look at relationships this way. 

Anyway, I am rambling now. I am better today - I will continue to work on not comparing my life to others. I know there is a reason I haven't met the man who makes my heart skip a beat yet. He's out there... probably wondering where I am, too - lol.


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Thank you - this does help. And I have definitely reached a point where I am comfortable with myself, and I have stopped actively dating. Online dating is not good for my self esteem! I am enjoying focusing on me, and my health and fitness, but I admit that the loneliness still creeps in, especially when I attend events where I am the only single person. But all of that aside, I had two incidents yesterday that really set this off - one was a friend who has NOT taken time to rediscover herself post divorce. I love her dearly, and get sad for her when she struggles in her relationship. I love her partner as well, but they both dove headfirst into this before their divorces were even filed. Of course issues are going to come up for them - neither of them took time to heal. But I try to help her whenever she needs me. And I try to celebrate with her when things are great, too. I only wish sometimes that she would consider what it feels like from my perspective.
> 
> My other friend has never been married, and I found myself counseling her last night because she was in tears after being gently let go after 3 dates with a man. 3 dates. I happen to be good friends with the man she went out with, too. She told me that she can't remain friends with him because she is too hurt by the fact that he told her he is attracted to her, but is not sure what he wants, and ultimately doesn't want to harm our friend circle. Sigh. Maybe I am hardened a bit, but that just doesn't seem worth losing a friendship over. My brain doesn't work that way. And now I am also sad for my male friend - he will be disappointed to have lost a friend because he wanted to get to know her better. (Mind you, this whole time I felt that she is not emotionally strong enough for him, but did not think it was my place to say anything. If he had asked me directly, I would have said something.) I tried to help my friend see that this should be an opportunity for her to learn and grow. I told her that as much as I have disliked dating at points, I have always been grateful for the new men I have met - I have learned something about myself, and about what I want from every encounter. I hold no ill will toward any man who has been kind enough to say that we simply don't have the connection he is looking for. I would hope that works both ways in the the times I have said that myself. My friend told me outright last night that she is not mature enough to look at relationships this way.
> 
> Anyway, I am rambling now. I am better today - I will continue to work on not comparing my life to others. I know there is a reason I haven't met the man who makes my heart skip a beat yet. He's out there... probably wondering where I am, too - lol.


Well, rest assured that any person, who can't handle being told there is no connection, has issues of their own and you are better off without them in your life. 
While I was very guilty of that myself post divorce (although to be honest there was no conversation and thus I was never told the connection had been lost) It took me a long time to get to the point of understanding, that just because I feel some way, does not mean the other person is feeling the same thing.
I would rather they be honest with me (because honesty is the only thing we truly owe another) and set me free to continue my journey/search than to try to fool themselves and me by pretending to be engaged. Another person's feelings is no reflection on you as a person, it is just their feelings. 
You can never truly know where some one else's heart and mind are. They may claim to be recovered, but they may just be fooling themselves and in doing so they are doing a disservice to others.


----------



## TooNice

Ynot said:


> Well, rest assured that any person, who can't handle being told there is no connection, has issues of their own and you are better off without them in your life.
> While I was very guilty of that myself post divorce (although to be honest there was no conversation and thus I was never told the connection had been lost) It took me a long time to get to the point of understanding, that just because I feel some way, does not mean the other person is feeling the same thing.
> I would rather they be honest with me (because honesty is the only thing we truly owe another) and set me free to continue my journey/search than to try to fool themselves and me by pretending to be engaged. Another person's feelings is no reflection on you as a person, it is just their feelings.
> You can never truly know where some one else's heart and mind are. They may claim to be recovered, but they may just be fooling themselves and in doing so they are doing a disservice to others.


Yes, exactly! This is so true. I am far more irritated when I am ghosted by a man than I am when I get honesty. I'm a grown woman, and unlike some of the people in my life, I will not fall into a heaping pile of hot mess if you tell me you don't see a future for us after a few dates. After being trapped in a marriage I didn't belong in for years, I am grateful for anyone who releases me with honesty. 

I would just love for my friend to reach this understanding, too. She's going to miserable until she does.


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Yes, exactly! This is so true. I am far more irritated when I am ghosted by a man than I am when I get honesty. I'm a grown woman, and unlike some of the people in my life, I will not fall into a heaping pile of hot mess if you tell me you don't see a future for us after a few dates. After being trapped in a marriage I didn't belong in for years, I am grateful for anyone who releases me with honesty.
> 
> I would just love for my friend to reach this understanding, too. She's going to miserable until she does.


One of the things I have come to realize is that I had issues communicating my wants, needs and desires to others. I allowed myself to become a door mat. Most especially with my ex wife. I was so afraid of being alone that I allowed her to invalidate my feelings, whenever I did express them. She was also bad at communicating (although she claimed to be the great communicator). 
So post divorce, honest communication is my policy. I have been with women who said one thing, and the acted totally differently. The old saying that actions speak louder than words is absolutely true. In those cases I have ended things and inevitably, there has been a blow up and angry words coming from her.
I imagine, that I have acted in ways that were counter to my words as well since then. In which case the woman ended it. 
Regardless, I have learned a little more about myself.
The most amazing thing is, just how liberating honesty actually is. Instead of pretending to like this or that or tolerate something. If I act honestly, I don't have to. That includes people as well. Plus many times, making my own needs known, or accepting someone else's, opens so many doors that remained unopened before.


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Yes, exactly! This is so true. I am far more irritated when I am ghosted by a man than I am when I get honesty. I'm a grown woman, and unlike some of the people in my life, I will not fall into a heaping pile of hot mess if you tell me you don't see a future for us after a few dates. After being trapped in a marriage I didn't belong in for years, I am grateful for anyone who releases me with honesty.
> 
> I would just love for my friend to reach this understanding, too. She's going to miserable until she does.


Grr, ghosting always drove me up a wall. But I figure that someone who can't be honest with me about something so simple at that early stage isn't worth my time or effort.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

RandomDude said:


> Ah crap... turns out this lady is ripe for an affair, husband pulled a bait and switch. Not sure if I can resist the temptation if she ever made a move, at first it was just a fun fantasy and casual fun-flirts, now it's a real opportunity. A part of me says "who cares, their marriage is not your problem, if she cheats, it's going to be with someone else, if not you, someone else." Another part of me says "its just wrong, will cause drama, break up a marriage", the latter being the weaker voice.
> 
> Decisions decisions...


DUDE. Are you freaking kidding me? Please don't become the OM. Whether you think it would be no big deal, their marriage is already on the rocks, or whatever, please don't stoop that low. I've never met you and you could be just blowing smoke, but from what you share here online you have no problem finding the ladies. Walk away from the this one. Have some integrity to not participate in the demise of a marriage. Tell her that she can call you when she's divorced if you want to play.


----------



## FeministInPink

TheGoodGuy said:


> DUDE. Are you freaking kidding me? Please don't become the OM. Whether you think it would be no big deal, their marriage is already on the rocks, or whatever, please don't stoop that low. I've never met you and you could be just blowing smoke, but from what you share here online you have no problem finding the ladies. Walk away from the this one. Have some integrity to not participate in the demise of a marriage. Tell her that she can call you when she's divorced if you want to play.


*Q*uoted *F*or *T*ruth!

This woman is BAD NEWS. STAY AWAY FROM HER. Seriously, cut off contact, or if you can't, minimize contact.


----------



## RandomDude

I know, just the temptation 'tis all.

Not to worry I am being distracted at the moment by my new little "racist" video game where one hour into the game there's Turks but it's still racist because there's no black people lol

Guess it's racist to make a setting based on eastern Europe with Asians, the political correct thing is make a setting based on Moorish Spain because there must be black people in it otherwise it's not diverse enough >.<!

*sigh* Social justice, political agendas and creative freedom...


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> I know, just the temptation 'tis all.
> 
> Not to worry I am being distracted at the moment by my new little "racist" video game where one hour into the game there's Turks but it's still racist because there's no black people lol
> 
> Guess it's racist to make a setting based on eastern Europe with Asians, the political correct thing is make a setting based on Moorish Spain because there must be black people in it otherwise it's not diverse enough >.<!
> 
> *sigh* Social justice, political agendas and creative freedom...


Dude. Slap upside the head.

I don't know you, except from your previous posts, and this isn't you. 

I know what it's like to be in a crappy place (right there with ya on that one) but suck it up. Stop all this stuff about maybe having an affair. Jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Don't do it. And you know it.


----------



## RandomDude

Wouldn't have been the first time. I'm not exactly a moral person, but I do enjoy my peace nowadays, so chances are I won't do it.

Still, it's never been a black/white thing when it comes to being the OM for me. With my previous partners I always thought if they cheated, it's not the OM's fault. If it's not them it's someone else. I don't understand spouses who cage their husbands or wives in fear of infidelity, if the trust isn't there, what kind of relationship is that? But meh, that's just me. I tend to be picky with my selection too so even though I don't have problems with finding a partner, I enjoyed having the best picks, their relationship status irrelevant. I haven't done it for over a decade though, being an OM that is. It's not that I actively go out to bang other people's wives, it just happened in the past.

Not saying it will happen again, and repeat that I do enjoy my peace so just blowing off smoke, and fighting temptation from a beautiful charming woman like anybody else.

Regardless I have other distractions right now to keep me entertained...


----------



## RandomDude

Had a weird dream, that people had hologram projectors on their smartphones, meeting Sean Connery who offered me a role in an upcoming James Bond movie, and the world was facing three alien invasions at the same time. WTF?! So random! I noticed my dreams seem to be weirder than others, maybe I am just a total weirdo >.<


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Had a weird dream, that people had hologram projectors on their smartphones, meeting Sean Connery who offered me a role in an upcoming James Bond movie, and the world was facing three alien invasions at the same time. WTF?! So random! I noticed my dreams seem to be weirder than others, maybe I am just a total weirdo >.<


Yeah Dude. That's kinda weird.



RandomDude said:


> Wouldn't have been the first time. I'm not exactly a moral person, but I do enjoy my peace nowadays, so chances are I won't do it.
> 
> Still, it's never been a black/white thing when it comes to being the OM for me. With my previous partners I always thought if they cheated, it's not the OM's fault. If it's not them it's someone else. I don't understand spouses who cage their husbands or wives in fear of infidelity, if the trust isn't there, what kind of relationship is that? But meh, that's just me. I tend to be picky with my selection too so even though I don't have problems with finding a partner, I enjoyed having the best picks, their relationship status irrelevant. I haven't done it for over a decade though, being an OM that is. It's not that I actively go out to bang other people's wives, it just happened in the past.
> 
> Not saying it will happen again, and repeat that I do enjoy my peace so just blowing off smoke, and fighting temptation from a beautiful charming woman like anybody else.
> 
> Regardless I have other distractions right now to keep me entertained...


Know what I think? I think that you are just trying to create a reaction. I don't believe that you believe that.

But if I'm wrong and you do, then think about the person on the other end of the relationship with your taken woman. What would it feel like if you were in his shoes? 

You say you don't understand people who cage their husbands or wives in fear of infidelity; that trust should prevail. With a post like what you put out there, where is the basis for trust?


----------



## RandomDude

At first yeah, just to kick off the thread lol, and chances are I'm not going to do anything, but morally, it's a blur for me, hence the temptation isn't as easy for me to fight off now that I realised how ripe she is for an affair. When I think about the other person in the other end of the relationship, if I was him, I would want the OM to come to me after he banged my wife and reveal everything, time and place and details. However, that will obviously be me getting involved in something that isn't mine to deal with, same reasoning that's holding me back from being the OM. Still, for me, that's the right thing to do if I ever do get into an affair with her. I don't know her husband but I already know where they live. It's a trap.

As for trust, ex-wife had complete freedom and has my trust to this day even though we are divorced and co-parents. I know the reality that many people cheat, but fidelity is not the responsibility of the OM, it's my partners.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> At first yeah, just to kick off the thread lol, and chances are I'm not going to do anything, but morally, it's a blur for me, hence the temptation isn't as easy for me to fight off now that I realised how ripe she is for an affair. When I think about the other person in the other end of the relationship, if I was him, I would want the OM to come to me after he banged my wife and reveal everything, time and place and details. However, that will obviously be me getting involved in something that isn't mine to deal with, same reasoning that's holding me back from being the OM. Still, for me, that's the right thing to do if I ever do get into an affair with her. I don't know her husband but I already know where they live. It's a trap.
> 
> As for trust, ex-wife had complete freedom and has my trust to this day even though we are divorced and co-parents. I know the reality that many people cheat, but fidelity is not the responsibility of the OM, it's my partners.


Fidelity is the responsibility of everyone involved.

If this was morally a blur for you, as you state, then you wouldn't be here posting about it.


----------



## RandomDude

I post my thoughts, which don't always translate into action. Many times I find posting my thoughts helps prevent further action, this is one such case.

Deep down I guess, I don't really want to get involved. Been distracting myself in the meantime and sooner later there will be another lady to steal my attention for a time.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> sooner later there will be another lady to steal my attention for a time.


Maybe you should strive for more.


----------



## RandomDude

Strive for more? What exactly? Quite frankly I'm no longer really interested in pursuing, just a few fun-flirts here and there with the women who inevitably come into my life and that's that.

I already met another quality marriage-material woman mere years after divorcing my ex-wife and like ex-wife I still can't love her. In the end I'm happy with being independent for the rest of my life with ladies on the side every now and then.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Strive for more? What exactly? Quite frankly I'm no longer really interested in pursuing, just a few fun-flirts here and there with the women who inevitably come into my life and that's that.
> 
> I already met another quality marriage-material woman mere years after divorcing my ex-wife and like ex-wife I still can't love her. In the end I'm happy with being independent for the rest of my life with ladies on the side every now and then.


Meh.


----------



## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> Meh.


Exactly!


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Fidelity is the responsibility of everyone involved.
> 
> If this was morally a blur for you, as you state, then you wouldn't be here posting about it.


You can't be responsible for anyone else's actions - ever.

There is a whole OLD site dedicated to having an affair, ****** *******. In that case you may know if the other person is cheating.
But IRL and most other OLD, you usually have no clue other than what they have told you.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> You can't be responsible for anyone else's actions - ever.
> 
> There is a whole OLD site dedicated to having an affair, ****** *******. In that case you may know if the other person is cheating.
> But IRL and most other OLD, you usually have no clue other than what they have told you.


Which is why I remain single.

You can't be responsible for anyone else's actions, but you don't have to partake in it either. 

BTW, I like your signature. I should try that.


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Which is why I remain single.
> 
> You can't be responsible for anyone else's actions, but you don't have to partake in it either.
> 
> BTW, I like your signature. I should try that.


Thanks, feel free to try it. But in order to be brave enough to live, you have no choice other than to partake of the actions of others. The only think you ultimately control is your response to it.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Thanks, feel free to try it. But in order to be brave enough to live, you have no choice other than to partake of the actions of others. The only think you ultimately control is your response to it.


You don't have to partake in actions that you know will cause others harm. But you do have to engage and trust. And that's tough.


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> You don't have to partake in actions that you know will cause others harm. But you do have to engage and trust. And that's tough.


Absolutely, but my point was that you often do not know those actions will cause harm to others. So you are right WHEN you do, you shouldn't. Unfortunately often times you don't.


----------



## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> I know the reality that many people cheat, but fidelity is not the responsibility of the OM, it's my partners.


I strongly disagree with this statement. Given the high level of deception involved in my ex's long term affair, and the fact that the OW publicly flaunted their relationship in the small town she was in, I blame her every bit as much as my ex.

Since my divorce, I have found myself in numerous situations with men who are married and came on to me. Every time, I have told them that I will not be the OW. I tell them that if they are coming on to me because something is missing in their marriage, to either go home and fix it, or get out. Period.


----------



## Ynot

So, for those who imagine me to be some kind player due to my outlook on sex, dating and relationships, this update:

I am sitting here on a Friday alone at my house. It is totally by choice. If I wanted, I have absolutely no doubt that I could be out with some woman who I was going to bed tonight. But I choose to be alone rather than settle for less than what I am willing to accept.
I have said over and over that every experience is a lesson to be learned. I am learning my lessons. I had to have those experiences to be who I am today.
Last week I met a woman for a second date. We met at a local tavern. She doesn't drink, but I had two bourbons. We talked for two hours. As we finished our meals and drinks I suggested we go back to my place to have a smoke, as she had said she would be into doing that on our first date.
At several points in our communications, before and during our date, she suggested that she was down for having some fun and that was really all she was looking for.
So, back at my place, we smoked a bowl and sat on the couch talking until 4 in the morning. As surprised as she was about some of my tales, she had quite a few stories herself. But, there was no sparks and nothing happened.
Now, before anyone starts to shame her or me for that matter. Know this about her, she is an attorney, she heads a trust and owns multiple farms, she was married for many years, has three successful adult children. IOW she is what many people would consider to be a successful woman.
Anyways, that's my story


----------



## FeministInPink

@Ynot No shame coming from this direction. I know lots of successful and responsible people who smoke.

And I don't think you're a player. Players don't have respect for the women they mess with. I've never gotten that impression from you.


----------



## RandomDude

Ahhh! Good o' grass!


----------



## RandomDude

Time to get back in the game! 






Back in the game, breaking hearts again!









Body? Check!  
Wallet? Check!  
Cologne? Check! 
Wheels? Check! 
Face? Bleh... 

Ok time to see that dermatologist...


----------



## FeministInPink

Ha ha ha, @RandomDude 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## 3Xnocharm

......


----------



## RandomDude

....

Thank you 3X


----------



## Ynot

Removed post


----------



## RandomDude

Damn... looks like the spots on my face will take more visits to the derm 

*sigh* I want to go back to the game NOW >.<!


----------



## RandomDude

Ok folks, there's this lady I see her every now and then. Had my eye on her for quite some time but always held back. She's been pretty obvious with her signals, which I just played off teasingly. I hold back because she's a romantic, like most women. I fear I may corrupt her innocence lol

However, then there's the truth that even though most women may desire a relationship, like most men, it doesn't mean they aren't open to men on the side every now on then. Yet I dunno...

What you think? Greenlight? Redlight? Not to mention she's absolutely gorgeous and I had my eye on her for quite some time, but she's young...


----------



## jorgegene

If you look anything like your picture, she'll melt in your arms!


----------



## RandomDude

jorgegene said:


> If you look anything like your picture, she'll melt in your arms!


That's irrelevant! lol

More curious if it's even a good idea considering what I'm looking for...

I don't want relationship, I just want... bang bang bang!


----------



## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> Ok folks, there's this lady I see her every now and then. Had my eye on her for quite some time but always held back. She's been pretty obvious with her signals, which I just played off teasingly. I hold back because she's a romantic, like most women. I fear I may corrupt her innocence lol
> 
> However, then there's the truth that even though most women may desire a relationship, like most men, it doesn't mean they aren't open to men on the side every now on then. Yet I dunno...
> 
> What you think? Greenlight? Redlight? Not to mention she's absolutely gorgeous and I had my eye on her for quite some time, but she's young...


It's not your job to maintain her "innocence", or whatever you think constitutes that. Plus in my experience that's just an act and with the right guy/situation they can become a complete ****. Just ask her out and see where it goes. If you don't want a relationship then treat any dates with her like it's purely casual. So basically no overnight stays after sex, don't call her afterwards, go on cheap dates that are basically just grabbing a drink then going home for some hanky panky, etc.


----------



## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> It's not your job to maintain her "innocence", or whatever you think constitutes that. Plus in my experience that's just an act and with the right guy/situation they can become a complete ****. Just ask her out and see where it goes. If you don't want a relationship then treat any dates with her like it's purely casual. So basically no overnight stays after sex, don't call her afterwards, go on cheap dates that are basically just grabbing a drink then going home for some hanky panky, etc.


Thanks Bananapeel, I've been haunted by self-guilt since ex-FWB-turned-GF, even though we are still very good friends and in contact. On paper, I believe I've done everything right, at the same time, she still fell in love, and even though I couldn't reciprocate and was honest with her, she still wanted to stay with me. It's kept me from the game for quite some time now.


----------



## minimalME

Bananapeel said:


> It's not your job to maintain her "innocence", or whatever you think constitutes that. Plus in my experience that's just an act and with the right guy/situation they can become a complete ****. Just ask her out and see where it goes. If you don't want a relationship then treat any dates with her like it's purely casual. So basically no overnight stays after sex, don't call her afterwards, go on cheap dates that are basically just grabbing a drink then going home for some hanky panky, etc.


OMG - you guys are awful.


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> OMG - you guys are awful.


Lol are we? Why?


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Lol are we? Why?


Do women really agree to this kind of behavior and treatment? Casual, cheap dates, no spending the night, go straight for the sex?


----------



## Ynot

minimalME said:


> Do women really agree to this kind of behavior and treatment? Casual, cheap dates, no spending the night, go straight for the sex?


Yes, because many women just want to have fun too. Not everyone thinks they need to be constantly treated like a queen in order to grant access to their crown jewels.


----------



## minimalME

Ynot said:


> Yes, because many women just want to have fun too. Not everyone thinks they need to be constantly treated like a queen in order to grant access to their crown jewels.


Speaking only for myself of course, I'd need to be treated like a man's queen before I'd have fun playing his *****.


----------



## TooNice

Ynot said:


> Yes, because many women just want to have fun too. Not everyone thinks they need to be constantly treated like a queen in order to grant access to their crown jewels.




And to be fair, you can have arrangements where you enjoy each other’s company, treat each other with respect, but still know that you’re in it for fun. It’s rare, but definitely possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## minimalME

TooNice said:


> And to be fair, you can have arrangements where you enjoy each other’s company, *treat each other with respect*, but still know that you’re in it for fun. It’s rare, but definitely possible.


Yeah, I just can't wrap my head around that. Casual wouldn't work for me. It wouldn't be fun.


----------



## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> And to be fair, you can have arrangements where you enjoy each other’s company, treat each other with respect, but still know that you’re in it for fun. *It’s rare, but definitely possible.*


And unfortunately, it's what I want.

I want a FWB, I want the friendship along with the benefits, not just sex, not just a fkbuddy in other words.


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> And to be fair, you can have arrangements where you enjoy each other’s company, treat each other with respect, but still know that you’re in it for fun. It’s rare, but definitely possible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is what is so sad. We should be focusing on respect instead of on what we think we are entitled to or what they think they are entitled to.


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> And unfortunately, it's what I want.
> 
> I want a FWB, I want the friendship along with the benefits, not just sex, not just a fkbuddy in other words.


It is your life. Seek what you want and you shall find it. It sounds like you have created a fantasy of what this woman wants based on past experiences with other women. Go for it. She might surprise you by being all the things you think she isn't. Heck she might even bust your balls if you end up falling for her and then she dumps you for getting to emotional. I have had it happen to me.


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> It is your life. Seek what you want and you shall find it. It sounds like you have created a fantasy of what this woman wants based on past experiences with other women. Go for it. She might surprise you by being all the things you think she isn't. Heck she might even bust your balls if you end up falling for her and then she dumps you for getting to emotional. I have had it happen to me.


Sad thing is looking back the best FWB that I've had was ex-GF and that's probably because for her there was love, even if one-sided. I had a few other FWBs who didn't fall but the friendships were quite distant, and it was more towards a 'fkbuddy' arrangement hence the complications were less. I do wonder if it's just a fantasy, but I don't know anymore really.


----------



## minimalME

Ynot said:


> That is what is so sad. We should be focusing on respect instead of on what we think we are entitled to or what they think they are entitled to.


Well, you believe that you're entitled (have the right) to date women in order to take - sex, friendship, company, etc. And without the 'complications' of commitment, responsiblity and/or obligation.

To respect someone is to honor and admire them. I'm sure they're out there, but I have hard time believing that women who're taken on casual, cheap dates where you don't spend the night with them after having sex feel honored and admired.

A woman may feel temporarily sexually satisfied (which is really more the goal), but I doubt she feels _respected_.


----------



## Ynot

minimalME said:


> Well, you believe that you're entitled (have the right) to date women in order to take - sex, friendship, company, etc. And without the 'complications' of commitment, responsiblity and/or obligation.
> 
> To respect someone is to honor and admire them. I'm sure they're out there, but I have hard time believing that women who're taken on casual, cheap dates where you don't spend the night with them after having sex feel honored and admired.
> 
> A woman may feel temporarily sexually satisfied (which is really more the goal), but I doubt she feels _respected_.


I don't believe I am entitled to anything. I do have the right, as a living human being to want my wants and desires to be fulfilled. I do not take anything from anyone. I can only accept what they are willing to provide.
I agree that respecting someone is in part honoring them and admiring them. I do, as a human being. Which is much more respectable than treating them like a fictional Disney Princess, predicated on their demands that I fulfill some romantic fantasy. They (the women I date) have every opportunity and all of the choice to either accept or reject what ever I have to offer. Respect is a two way street, but one thing it does not include is entitlement.
What you can't seem to able to do is recognize or accept, dare I say respect, the fact that many do not share your entitlement mentality. Rather they look at life as a mutually gratifying exchange. I have something they desire. They have something I desire. We have a meeting of the minds and we exchange our goods and services.


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Sad thing is looking back the best FWB that I've had was ex-GF and that's probably because for her there was love, even if one-sided. I had a few other FWBs who didn't fall but the friendships were quite distant, and it was more towards a 'fkbuddy' arrangement hence the complications were less. I do wonder if it's just a fantasy, but I don't know anymore really.


Perhaps it is a fantasy. But it is your fantasy. Would you rather live it or think about it? As long as you are not hurting anyone and everybody is in agreement, why concern yourself with what others (outside of the relationship) think?

Maybe she is some entitled Disney Princess waiting to be swept off her feet by the handsome prince. That is cool, but that is her fantasy, not yours. Maybe she is raging nympho that just wants to get down and dirty and nothing more. That is cool as well. But that is her fantasy, not yours (well maybe). Regardless, you will never know if your fantasies, desires, or wants align, until you find out. So go find out. It won't be the end of the world.


----------



## Bananapeel

minimalME said:


> Do women really agree to this kind of behavior and treatment? Casual, cheap dates, no spending the night, go straight for the sex?


Of course they do. The key with my recommendation is about RD being honest with his intentions so he can find a like minded woman. As long as both parties are honest, open, and agree to it then there is nothing inherently wrong with it. In fact you could argue it's far more respectful than trying to pretend to be someone you are not just to get laid. 



minimalME said:


> Speaking only for myself of course, I'd need to be treated like a man's queen before I'd have fun playing his *****.


Some women are like that, most notably the ones looking for a relationship. But women are very diverse in what they want, expect, and enjoy. There is no single standard that applies to all of them. My mindset is that women should not be put on pedestals and treated like a queen, rather I do much better with someone that I can treat as my equal. 

Also, as far as cheap dates go, it really makes no difference how much you spend on a date as long as you plan a fun evening because if a woman isn't into you there is no way to buy her affection. Likewise, if she is into you then you don't need to buy it. I spend less than $40 the first few dates and ideally less than $20, until I decide whether I really like her or not. If we start dating seriously then the money doesn't matter to me because I'm not hurting financially, and instead I'll focus on the experience and enjoyment rather than the price. 



minimalME said:


> Yeah, I just can't wrap my head around that. Casual wouldn't work for me. It wouldn't be fun.


Some women and some men think the same way as you and others do not. Nothing wrong with either mindset.


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> Perhaps it is a fantasy. But it is your fantasy. Would you rather live it or think about it? As long as you are not hurting anyone and everybody is in agreement, why concern yourself with what others (outside of the relationship) think?
> 
> Maybe she is some entitled Disney Princess waiting to be swept off her feet by the handsome prince. That is cool, but that is her fantasy, not yours. Maybe she is raging nympho that just wants to get down and dirty and nothing more. That is cool as well. But that is her fantasy, not yours (well maybe). Regardless, you will never know if your fantasies, desires, or wants align, until you find out. So go find out. It won't be the end of the world.


Sure but fantasies tend to lead to unrealistic expectations and disappointments.


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Sure but fantasies tend to lead to unrealistic expectations and disappointments.


Some do. Then you realize the unrealistic aspects and modulate it. But you will never know until you experience it.


----------



## Ynot

Sometimes a little outside validation is nice to hear. I was having lunch with my daughter. We started discussing someone we both knew from when she was a kid. My daughter interjected "yeah, that woman was crazy!" I said "how so?". so she said "Like Mom! Controlling, manipulative. over bearing!" Wow, I am glad I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

Then later we were discussing how corporations tend to think they own you if they pay you a salary. I mentioned how her mother had worked for a large non-profit. They told her she was making $X per year for the 38.5 hours a week. Then she ended up working 70-80 just to try to meet her goals. My daughter chimed in "I wonder how much of that was spent talking on the phone"

Before anybody says maybe she was picking up on cues from me. I wasn't even hinting at any of the things she said. These were her observations. I simply agree with them.

Regardless, it is nice to hear that maybe you aren't crazy after all.


----------



## minimalME

Ynot said:


> Sometimes a little outside validation is nice to hear. I was having lunch with my daughter. We started discussing someone we both knew from when she was a kid. My daughter interjected "yeah, that woman was crazy!" I said "how so?". so she said "Like Mom! Controlling, manipulative. over bearing!" Wow, I am glad I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
> 
> Then later we were discussing how corporations tend to think they own you if they pay you a salary. I mentioned how her mother had worked for a large non-profit. They told her she was making $X per year for the 38.5 hours a week. Then she ended up working 70-80 just to try to meet her goals. My daughter chimed in "I wonder how much of that was spent talking on the phone"
> 
> Before anybody says maybe she was picking up on cues from me. I wasn't even hinting at any of the things she said. These were her observations. I simply agree with them.
> 
> Regardless, *it is nice to hear that maybe you aren't crazy after all*.


I'm glad you had a nice time with your daughter. 

I only know a little of your history - from a recent post about illness, business and your divorce. 

Why would think you're crazy?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

minimalME said:


> Well, you believe that you're entitled (have the right) to date women in order to take - sex, friendship, company, etc. And without the 'complications' of commitment, responsiblity and/or obligation.
> 
> To respect someone is to honor and admire them. I'm sure they're out there, but I have hard time believing that women who're taken on casual, cheap dates where you don't spend the night with them after having sex feel honored and admired.
> 
> A woman may feel temporarily sexually satisfied (which is really more the goal), but I doubt she feels _respected_.


Just because casual doesn't work for you doesn't mean that that EVERYONE feels the same way! There are plenty of women out here that feel exactly as these men do, and are looking for fun only, not commitment. And sorry but you (or anyone else) are not "entitled" to be treated like a queen by anyone! 

Please don't sit in judgment about what works for other people.


----------



## Ynot

minimalME said:


> I'm glad you had a nice time with your daughter.
> 
> I only know a little of your history - from a recent post about illness, business and your divorce.
> 
> Why would think you're crazy?


Perhaps crazy was too strong of a word. But I have to admit that sometimes I doubt my own thinking. I think my ex was narcissistic, but I have no idea what others think of her. It is just nice to know I am not alone in my assessment.


----------



## minimalME

3Xnocharm said:


> Just because casual doesn't work for you doesn't mean that that EVERYONE feels the same way! There are plenty of women out here that feel exactly as these men do, and are looking for fun only, not commitment. And sorry but you (or anyone else) are not "entitled" to be treated like a queen by anyone!
> 
> Please don't sit in judgment about what works for other people.


It's interesting how when I disagree, all of the sudden I'm judgemental. Please feel free to point out _exactly_ what I said that was judgy against you or your choices? 

In terms of how I decide to be treated, that's up to me. If you'll take the time to read the posts prior to mine, I didn't initiate the title of queen, but was merely responding (and repeating) to the two men who did.


----------



## TooNice

I think the bottom line is that we all get to choose to look for what we want. For some, that may be waiting patiently for for Ms. or Mr. Right to come along. For others, that may mean spending time with Ms. or Mr. Right Now while we wait. It not right or wrong, good or bad - it just is. As long as we can make our own choices with confidence and be ok moving forward, that's what matters - not what anyone else thinks.


----------



## TooNice

It's been a whopping 2.5 weeks since I met my recent guy, but I think it's time to update here. 

I had stopped online dating in the fall. I have been focusing on myself and working out a good deal more, and simply not worrying about meeting men. In a moment of weakness a few weeks ago, I did pop back onto two sites one night, and peeked around for about three days. During that time, I set up coffee with a man in my neighborhood. We had dinner two days later. We even went for runs together twice that week. And spent much of last weekend together. Had dinner last night. 

I think I like this guy. He is my age (not typical for me, as you may know!), but very healthy and fit and active. We both love that we can be active together. He seems very kind and good, and so far, fits into my strict dating requirement of being a good human. 

Stay tuned, but I am more optimistic than I think I have been at any point in the past...


----------



## minimalME

Ynot said:


> Perhaps crazy was too strong of a word. But I have to admit that sometimes I doubt my own thinking. I think my ex was narcissistic, but I have no idea what others think of her. It is just nice to know I am not alone in my assessment.


It is comforting to know we're not alone in terms of how we experience someone. 

In my marriage (at the end of it) I was accused of re-writing history, which is amusing because we were either having sex or we weren't. I certainly didn't imagine being in a sexless marriage. But since that's just between me and him, I live with that knowledge alone.

One thing I believe to be true is that each of us experiences history differently. We all have our own interpretations.

Knowing that, it would be very hard for me to tell someone that their version was completely wrong.


----------



## Ynot

minimalME said:


> It is comforting to know we're not alone in terms of how we experience someone.
> 
> In my marriage (at the end of it) I was accused of re-writing history, which is amusing because we were either having sex or we weren't. I certainly didn't imagine being in a sexless marriage. But since that's just between me and him, I live with that knowledge alone.
> 
> One thing I believe to be true is that each of us experiences history differently. We all have our own interpretations.
> 
> Knowing that, it would be very hard for me to tell someone that their version was completely wrong.


I agree. But she experienced life with my ex, just as I did. It is one thing to have a casual acquaintance agree with you. It is another to have someone who sat in the foxhole with you agree with you.
It took me several years to truly understand the depths of my brainwashing. I had my ex on such a high pedestal that I really believed it was all my fault. It has only been the distance of time to realize how wrong I was. Such an experience leaves you questioning your own judgment. So it was good to have that external validation of my own thoughts. I am sure my daughter has no idea just how good.


----------



## Red Sonja

> Not everyone thinks they need to be constantly treated like a queen in order to grant access to their crown jewels.


The opposite of being "treated like a queen" does not equate to being "treated like an object to stick your penis into".

Have some respect for your fellow human beings.


----------



## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> The opposite of being "treated like a queen" does not equate to being "treated like an object to stick your penis into".
> 
> Have some respect for your fellow human beings.


Have I ever said it did? Have I ever said I didn't respect my fellow human beings or is that just an assumption you like to make? If you read anything that I wrote you would know that RESPECT is EVERYTHING I have written about. For example:
"We should be focusing on respect instead of on what we think we are entitled to or what they think they are entitled to. "
and
"I don't believe I am entitled to anything. I do have the right, as a living human being to want my wants and desires to be fulfilled. I do not take anything from anyone. I can only accept what they are willing to provide.
I agree that respecting someone is in part honoring them and admiring them. I do, as a human being. Which is much more respectable than treating them like a fictional Disney Princess, predicated on their demands that I fulfill some romantic fantasy. They (the women I date) have every opportunity and all of the choice to either accept or reject what ever I have to offer. Respect is a two way street, but one thing it does not include is entitlement."
So keep your sanctimonious BS to yourself!


----------



## Not

The latest conversation in this thread has been interesting to me. I’ll be joining the dating scene in the not to distant future. I don’t want a serious relationship but I don’t want to be taken on cheap dates and ignored when the guy isn’t in the mood to “hang out” either. So what does the middle ground look like exactly?


----------



## RandomDude

With my ex-FWB-turned GF, for a time we were in bliss. In fact we were in bliss until she started having more and more expectations due to her feelings. I didn't cheap out with her as she was a really good friend who I grew close with. We broke alot of 'FWB' rules (which are more akin to fkbuddies), we hanged out from time to time, travelled together, had great sex, msged each other during the day but understood space. I still remained completely free and she too. No expectations of marriage, no plans for our future together, just companionship. We weren't interested in others so even though there was no explicit commitment to be loyal - we stuck with each other. It was great, clean, skin-to-skin fun sex (and thankfully, my pullout game strong ) Alas, all good things end.

Sometimes I wonder if FWB is even the right term anymore, it's more like "casual relationship". I did have feelings too but it's more friendship, don't think I'm capable of anything more anyway.


----------



## Bananapeel

Not said:


> The latest conversation in this thread has been interesting to me. I’ll be joining the dating scene in the not to distant future. I don’t want a serious relationship but I don’t want to be taken on cheap dates and ignored when the guy isn’t in the mood to “hang out” either. So what does the middle ground look like exactly?


The middle ground is to find a guy that wants a relationship but doesn't want to prioritize it above his kids/work/etc. That way you can both date each other casually as the time allows but have some degree of exclusivity, if that is what you want. Regarding the cheap date idea, that is for the first few dates while you are getting to know the other person. For men we figure that many of the people we go on first dates with we won't want to see again or they won't want to see us again; therefore, we like to keep the initial investment to the minimum. From my point of view there's no point in taking a woman out three times at $100-$150 each time if there is no potential with her (I've got better far ways to spend a few hundred dollars then on a woman that isn't really interested in me). I dated a woman recently for a year and took her on two out of state trips (including flying her to vegas for a long weekend) as well as taking her to the nice places to eat, going to concerts, renting a boat for a weekend on the lake, etc. She was worth spending the money on because she was a great companion, but I didn't know that until after we went out a few times. My suggestion is that if you want to go out on more expensive dates early on then you should offer to pay for them, or at least your share of the bill.

Edit: The other cheap date was referring to people you want to keep as casual (i.e. F buddies). I recommend treating people in a way that there is no doubt what your intentions are and then they can decide for themselves whether it works for them. So if you don't want to be treated as casual don't spend time with guys that treat you like a casual option. If you are looking for casual then don't treat your partner like it's a relationship. Basically, just keep it honest.


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## TooNice

Bananapeel said:


> The middle ground is to find a guy that wants a relationship but doesn't want to prioritize it above his kids/work/etc. That way you can both date each other casually as the time allows but have some degree of exclusivity, if that is what you want. Regarding the cheap date idea, that is for the first few dates while you are getting to know the other person. For men we figure that many of the people we go on first dates with we won't want to see again or they won't want to see us again; therefore, we like to keep the initial investment to the minimum. From my point of view there's no point in taking a woman out three times at $100-$150 each time if there is no potential with her (I've got better far ways to spend a few hundred dollars then on a woman that isn't really interested in me). I dated a woman recently for a year and took her on two out of state trips (including flying her to vegas for a long weekend) as well as taking her to the nice places to eat, going to concerts, renting a boat for a weekend on the lake, etc. She was worth spending the money on because she was a great companion, but I didn't know that until after we went out a few times. My suggestion is that if you want to go out on more expensive dates early on then you should offer to pay for them, or at least your share of the bill.



Wow...I’m clearly dating in the wrong circles. 


(I’m kidding! Sort of...)



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## Red Sonja

@Ynot … you posted your clarifications relating to “respect” _after _you posted your (sexist) comment about “queens”. I was responding to the “queens” statement only and I stand by what I said in the context of the conversation that was happening at the time. I am glad that you respect others but you need to cool off ... please.

@RandomDude … remember I told you some time ago how to find what you seek; what type of personality to look for? Any progress on that front?


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## RandomDude

Red Sonja said:


> … remember I told you some time ago how to find what you seek; what type of personality to look for? Any progress on that front?


Yeah, she's taken lol

And entrapped in an arrangement she'd rather escape. But, not going there again.


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## RandomDude

Anyway, going to go for a dive soon! 










I've conquered the fear of the skies, now I need to conquer my fear of the depths!


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## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> @Ynot … you posted your clarifications relating to “respect” _after _you posted your (sexist) comment about “queens”. I was responding to the “queens” statement only and I stand by what I said in the context of the conversation that was happening at the time. I am glad that you respect others but you need to cool off ... please.


I have written of respect any number of times prior to posting my clarifications to your condescending comments. Maybe you should learn to respect others yourself. I take offense to being accused of just wanting a piece of meat to stick my **** into. There was nothing "sexist" about my comment, it is commonly discussed in these forums about the entitlement mentality of some women.


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## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> I have written of respect any number of times prior to posting my clarifications to your condescending comments. Maybe you should learn to respect others yourself. I take offense to being accused of just wanting a piece of meat to stick my **** into. There was nothing "sexist" about my comment, it is commonly discussed in these forums about the entitlement mentality of some women.


Sigh ... I should have just put the quote without a name attached to it, I truly did not think anyone would take it as a personal attack.


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## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> Sigh ... I should have just put the quote without a name attached to it, I truly did not think anyone would take it as a personal attack.


Well I did. Because it was.


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## Elizabeth001

I’m taking my Scatagories and going home!

Sorry...those last few exchanges made me visualize that old commercial. Hahaaa. Does anyone remember it?



ETA: scattergories. My bad. 


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## Not

Thanks Random and BP for answering. I think it would be difficult to balance the feelings and expectations that may develop without very clearly drawn boundaries right from the get go. I can see how there would be problems/misunderstanding without very clear communication. So I very much agree with this....



Bananapeel said:


> Edit: The other cheap date was referring to people you want to keep as casual (i.e. F buddies). I recommend treating people in a way that there is no doubt what your intentions are and then they can decide for themselves whether it works for them. So if you don't want to be treated as casual don't spend time with guys that treat you like a casual option. If you are looking for casual then don't treat your partner like it's a relationship. Basically, just keep it honest.


The idea of a casual but exclusive relationship sounds great but the actual reality of being both casual and exclusive doesn’t sound so easy. If it’s casual there are no strings attached but if it’s exclusive there are certain expectations. I would want exclusive because I’m not interested in sharing a bed partner for obvious reasons. Sigh. Just thinking about it scares me off a little because it sounds complicated.


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## Bananapeel

@Not - If you want casual but exclusive just find someone that is super busy/engaged in life. Then they'll want to spend time with you but will be limited in the amount of time they have to offer. 

For example, here's a snapshot of my life. I work full time in a professional career, have custody of my kids half time and like to be engaged with them (i.e. I cook and eat all meals together as a family, do family activities, check their homework, etc.), significantly involved religiously, volunteer on several boards including being president of an organization, volunteer time civically, workout 5+ days a week, play a recreational sport, own a home with land/animals to tend to. I also like to have a social life, spend time with friends, and time pursing hobbies. Due to that I only have the time to offer a date once per week and I need advance notice for that to get scheduled. Late invitations from women are nearly always declined by me. I also don't spend much time texting between dates (I hardly ever initiate text conversations) or even talking on the phone/skype/etc. because I don't have the time. Instead contact is done in person while we are on a date. I do really well with either a NSA or a casual but exclusive relationship. At this point in my life I don't have more time to devote than for those two options. I'm upfront about this so there are no doubts.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Bananapeel said:


> For example, here's a snapshot of my life. I work full time in a professional career, have custody of my kids half time and like to be engaged with them (i.e. I cook and eat all meals together as a family, do family activities, check their homework, etc.), significantly involved religiously, volunteer on several boards including being president of an organization, volunteer time civically, workout 5+ days a week, play a recreational sport, own a home with land/animals to tend to. I also like to have a social life, spend time with friends, and time pursing hobbies. Due to that I only have the time to offer a date once per week and I need advance notice for that to get scheduled. Late invitations from women are nearly always declined by me. I also don't spend much time texting between dates (I hardly ever initiate text conversations) or even talking on the phone/skype/etc. because I don't have the time. Instead contact is done in person while we are on a date. I do really well with either a NSA or a casual but exclusive relationship. At this point in my life I don't have more time to devote than for those two options. I'm upfront about this so there are no doubts.


Your life sounds much like mine, and my issues with dating. There may be someone perfect out there for me, but if our rare free time doesn't happen to align, we'll never get to find each other. I have to make surprisingly deep initial judgements about people I meet - are you worth taking time off work and/or getting a babysitter just to get to know better?


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## Elizabeth001

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Your life sounds much like mine, and my issues with dating. There may be someone perfect out there for me, but if our rare free time doesn't happen to align, we'll never get to find each other. I have to make surprisingly deep initial judgements about people I meet - are you worth taking time off work and/or getting a babysitter just to get to know better?




Orrr...would I rather stay home and cuddle with my dogs? Hahaaaa I work so much and feel that they already spend enough time away from me. Whoever chances to fall in love with me had better fall in love with them too. lol 


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## john117

Ok people. Single is overrated.

Conservative estimates indicate I will run out of frozen casseroles and chili by mid April. DD1 will be here a month later. Does anyone predict my demise? Martian movie kind of demise?


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## Livvie

john117 said:


> Ok people. Single is overrated.
> 
> Conservative estimates indicate I will run out of frozen casseroles and chili by mid April. DD1 will be here a month later. Does anyone predict my demise? Martian movie kind of demise?


Serious question: Would you rather still be living with your wife?


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## WildMustang

john117 said:


> Ok people. Single is overrated.
> 
> Conservative estimates indicate I will run out of frozen casseroles and chili by mid April. DD1 will be here a month later. Does anyone predict my demise? Martian movie kind of demise?


You need to get the word out among friends and work colleagues that you are now single. 

And don't be surprised when women knock on your door with a casserole and pie in hand.


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## TooNice

WildMustang said:


> And don't be surprised when women knock on your door with a casserole and pie in hand.



I haven’t made a single casserole or pie since my divorce, let alone delivered one to a man. Who’s got time for that? 

(I sincerely hope this post was made in jest...)


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## Ynot

john117 said:


> Ok people. Single is overrated.
> 
> Conservative estimates indicate I will run out of frozen casseroles and chili by mid April. DD1 will be here a month later. Does anyone predict my demise? Martian movie kind of demise?


Stop eating frozen casseroles and chili and get out there and meet people. You will find the single life much more enjoyable once you start enjoying it. Sitting at home waiting for it to happen doesn't work.


----------



## RandomDude

Not said:


> Thanks Random and BP for answering. I think it would be difficult to balance the feelings and expectations that may develop without very clearly drawn boundaries right from the get go. I can see how there would be problems/misunderstanding without very clear communication. So I very much agree with this....
> 
> The idea of a casual but exclusive relationship sounds great but the actual reality of being both casual and exclusive doesn’t sound so easy. If it’s casual there are no strings attached but if it’s exclusive there are certain expectations. I would want exclusive because I’m not interested in sharing a bed partner for obvious reasons. Sigh. Just thinking about it scares me off a little because it sounds complicated.


With boundaries it can work but it gets complicated because most people seem to inevitably fall in love. Over the years though I identified a certain 'type' who are more resistant to feelings, and can have a deep sexual friendship without the expectations. Rare though. As even with clearly drawn boundaries, boundaries seem to inevitably get crossed as feelings develop. Expectations creep up, and it hurts to have them denied and feelings not reciprocated. They deny it to themselves but you can see the danger signs and you know it way before they tell you but it's hard to discuss and you can't exactly say "fess up, you're in love"

Kinda like this:





Still, when I think of ex-GF, we had a great relationship from start to finish, even though I hurt her by not reciprocating on her feelings, desires and hopes for a future, she handled it like an adult, moved on with her life with fond memories of our time together. Think I'm just going to go ahead, break hearts, but continue to be as gentlemanly as I was with my ex. Or maybe, I myself can finally experience this alien feeling called "love" that I always hear about and imagine but never feel.


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## WildMustang

TooNice said:


> I haven’t made a single casserole or pie since my divorce, let alone delivered one to a man. Who’s got time for that?
> 
> (I sincerely hope this post was made in jest...)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahaha...I hear ya...I don't have time either.

Friend of mine, a guy in his early 50s, recently divorced after 30 years married, has women knock on his door and bring him casseroles and pies 3-4 times a week. I kid you not. 

I was floored. That's what you do when someone dies! LOL. 

Now, Dude is a catch. A serious catch! So I can see why it's happening. 

But yeah...I didn't know this type thing happened until he told me about it. He actually got so much home made food delivered to him last week, he made me take some. I was like, "WTH? Where did all this food come from?" 

Apparently, it's a common thing women do nowadays when they find out a "good catch" is suddenly on the market.

I live in the South, so there's that...could be a cultural hospitality thing?


----------



## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> I haven’t made a single casserole or pie since my divorce, let alone delivered one to a man. Who’s got time for that?
> 
> (I sincerely hope this post was made in jest...)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I love it when you take the time to type out what I’m thinking 🤣


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## john117

Livvie said:


> Serious question: Would you rather still be living with your wife?


No, but practical aspects of marriage need to be resolved somehow. Preparing a huge house for sale alone is no fun. At least DD1 and future husband are dropping by for spring break next week. The cat too.

It's really scary how quickly the whole marriage thing went out of my head. Dd2 is with her during spring break and she reports she's mostly happy.


----------



## chillymorn69

WildMustang said:


> Hahaha...I hear ya...I don't have time either.
> 
> Friend of mine, a guy in his early 50s, recently divorced after 30 years married, has women knock on his door and bring him casseroles and pies 3-4 times a week. I kid you not.
> 
> I was floored. That's what you do when someone dies! LOL.
> 
> Now, Dude is a catch. A serious catch! So I can see why it's happening.
> 
> But yeah...I didn't know this type thing happened until he told me about it. He actually got so much home made food delivered to him last week, he made me take some. I was like, "WTH? Where did all this food come from?"
> 
> Apparently, it's a common thing women do nowadays when they find out a "good catch" is suddenly on the market.
> 
> I live in the South, so there's that...could be a cultural hospitality thing?


I'm moving south!

Reminds me of a Coach episode. Where Luther buys a condo and all the ladies keep bringing him food! He thinks he died and went to heaven.


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> Stop eating frozen casseroles and chili and get out there and meet people. You will find the single life much more enjoyable once you start enjoying it. Sitting at home waiting for it to happen doesn't work.


Meet people... What a concept . No time. Maybe once the McMansion sells. Owning a house while single has to be about the same as owning a castle. Without hired help. 

On top of that DD1 wants to get married. Like in a year. Her BF has two interviews next week in the same city she decided to go for her PhD and it's very likely he'll have an offer or two. No moving together quite yet but in a year or two. Sigh. 

At least it's under 2 hours away. And 1 hour from s-wife. Good to have DD back.


----------



## WildMustang

chillymorn69 said:


> I'm moving south!
> 
> Reminds me of a Coach episode. Where Luther buys a condo and all the ladies keep bringing him food! He thinks he died and went to heaven.


Hahahahaha I semi-jokingly asked him if he got a steak and a Blow Job yesterday too.:surprise:

I think he did, based on the look on his face when I asked him.:smile2:


----------



## chillymorn69

WildMustang said:


> Hahahahaha I semi-jokingly asked him if he got a steak and a Blow Job yesterday too.:surprise:
> 
> I think he did, based on the look on his face when I asked him.:smile2:


Now your just rubbing it in!

No steak or .......nevermind!


----------



## WildMustang

chillymorn69 said:


> Now your just rubbing it in!
> 
> No steak or .......nevermind!


Nah...I'm not rubbing it in. I am sorry if I came across that way. Didn't mean to.

Never have seen that Coach show, but I heard it was good (was it an old comedy show in the 90s about a coach?)


----------



## chillymorn69

WildMustang said:


> Nah...I'm not rubbing it in. I am sorry if I came across that way. Didn't mean to.
> 
> Never have seen that Coach show, but I heard it was good (was it an old comedy show in the 90s about a coach?)


Lol just joking.

Coach , yes 90s sitcom, very funny.

Might be some on youtube..


----------



## WildMustang

chillymorn69 said:


> Lol just joking.
> 
> Coach , yes 90s sitcom, very funny.
> 
> Might be some on youtube..


I vaguely recall it being on air, but I don't think I ever watched it.


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## Bananapeel

john117 said:


> Ok people. Single is overrated.
> 
> Conservative estimates indicate I will run out of frozen casseroles and chili by mid April. DD1 will be here a month later. Does anyone predict my demise? Martian movie kind of demise?


There's solid proof a bachelor can live on rotisserie chickens from Costco year round with no ill effects. I think you'll make it!


----------



## 2&out

I have to disagree John - being a single guy in early/mid 50's is effin great IMO. Once you get the house behind you I hope you get out some and enjoy life. I live in the mid-west (in a big old century home I bought after divorce that I think rocks and no I'm not lonely at all in) so I don't get casseroles brought to me much but for some reason I seem to get plenty of booze. LOL. If I do say so myself I cook pretty well - better than most women I've met/know - so they invite themselves over and bring deserts and alcohol. I am not a fancy wine critic but by default I seem to have become a collector. I have at least 100 bottles and haven't bought one of them - and most times wine is consumed with my company.


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## bkyln309

Bananapeel said:


> @Not - If you want casual but exclusive just find someone that is super busy/engaged in life. Then they'll want to spend time with you but will be limited in the amount of time they have to offer.
> 
> For example, here's a snapshot of my life. I work full time in a professional career, have custody of my kids half time and like to be engaged with them (i.e. I cook and eat all meals together as a family, do family activities, check their homework, etc.), significantly involved religiously, volunteer on several boards including being president of an organization, volunteer time civically, workout 5+ days a week, play a recreational sport, own a home with land/animals to tend to. I also like to have a social life, spend time with friends, and time pursing hobbies. Due to that I only have the time to offer a date once per week and I need advance notice for that to get scheduled. Late invitations from women are nearly always declined by me. I also don't spend much time texting between dates (I hardly ever initiate text conversations) or even talking on the phone/skype/etc. because I don't have the time. Instead contact is done in person while we are on a date. I do really well with either a NSA or a casual but exclusive relationship. At this point in my life I don't have more time to devote than for those two options. I'm upfront about this so there are no doubts.


If truly you are this busy, you shouldn't date. No woman worth her salt would be put at the bottom of this list when you feel like she can have the honor of your presence. And the reality is no one is so busy they cannot text a few times a week or have a phone call or two even for a few minutes. If you have time to socialize with friends, you have time in your life to build more of a relationship with a woman. The reality is you either dont want a relationship or you want it handed to you on a silver platter with no work involved and no commitment. Like I said, quality women wont put up with this BS.


----------



## Bananapeel

@bkyln309 - Whether I should or shouldn't date is solely up to me to decide. What I've found is that quality women are as busy as I am so they seem to understand and actually appreciate that I'm not nagging them for their constant attention. The fact is that guys like me are almost never single so women are thrilled to have the opportunity to go out with me and are more than willing to work within my schedule constraints. Those that want otherwise are free to go elsewhere.


----------



## john117

Bananapeel said:


> There's solid proof a bachelor can live on rotisserie chickens from Costco year round with no ill effects. I think you'll make it!


I'm now collecting field data as to whether a bachelor can live on free Costco samples year round, ill effects or not .


----------



## john117

The thing is, after seeing the no maintenance rental route, it takes enormous will power to do any housework... Especially when the house was a major sticking point in my marriage. 

Took an hour to mount a new fancy shower curtain rod - a 5 min job with 2 people . 

Costco chicken tonight!!!


----------



## TooNice

WildMustang said:


> Apparently, it's a common thing women do nowadays when they find out a "good catch" is suddenly on the market.
> 
> I live in the South, so there's that...could be a cultural hospitality thing?


Wow. Maybe this is a regional thing. I have a *very* wide social network, and I just can't see this happening here. First off, I can't see word spreading like that, nor can I see women being that bold. Even if they had the time. 

And frankly, from my own perspective, I wouldn't want to set any unrealistic expectations. I won't be popping casseroles on the table at 5:30pm if we are in a relationship, so...

Good for your friend, though.


----------



## 2&out

I can see that point John and that's probably a good decision. One thing about being divorced and kids mostly on their own - you don't need to do anything for anyone but yourself - and you can do whatever floats your boat with no unwanted opinion/ "help". I have found that to be great. 

I don't mind and actually like putzing / doing maintenance on my house. My house is pretty high maintenance because of the huge amount of ornate woodwork in it and just being so old - but I knew that going in and actually wanted that. I have trouble sitting/relaxing - I feel like I'm wasting time. For me seeing people jaws drop when I close up one of the 3 sets of oversized pocket type double mahogany doors is very rewarding. They aren't just doors - they are works of art. Of course if you like modern / clean / minimalistic type décor it isn't for you - and that's just fine. Different strokes for different folks. A dumb but I think funny thing is one of the things women seem to comment a lot about on my house is the toilets ! They are a little unusual and now totally illegal to sell - they double flush and probably consume 50 gallons a time. Never have to flush them twice ! LOL


----------



## john117

I have trouble relaxing too (ADHD ). But I'm 58 years old. I'm getting tired. I don't sleep well thanks to the expletive deleted medicine Dr Quack prescribed. 

Just taking an inventory of what's in the stupid house for property settlement is a career. It's like inventorying the freaking Louvre. Everything exists in duplicate or worse. I could host a dinner for 50 and not borrow one plate.

Finally this week I gave up, got myself some ham & cheese and survived a week on sandwiches. Hopefully after I find a new place I can start cooking.


----------



## Not

RandomDude said:


> With boundaries it can work but it gets complicated because most people seem to inevitably fall in love. Over the years though I identified a certain 'type' who are more resistant to feelings, and can have a deep sexual friendship without the expectations. Rare though. As even with clearly drawn boundaries, boundaries seem to inevitably get crossed as feelings develop. Expectations creep up, and it hurts to have them denied and feelings not reciprocated. They deny it to themselves but you can see the danger signs and you know it way before they tell you but it's hard to discuss and you can't exactly say "fess up, you're in love"
> 
> Kinda like this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bEWXs_FX4
> 
> Still, when I think of ex-GF, we had a great relationship from start to finish, even though I hurt her by not reciprocating on her feelings, desires and hopes for a future, she handled it like an adult, moved on with her life with fond memories of our time together. Think I'm just going to go ahead, break hearts, but continue to be as gentlemanly as I was with my ex. Or maybe, I myself can finally experience this alien feeling called "love" that I always hear about and imagine but never feel.


This is all so ironic for me because years ago I was struggling with the dilemma of being in love with my xH (thought I was at the time at least) but not wanting to have sex with him. Was love and companionship enough? The sex was never good (PE) but I assumed he would grow out of it. I struggled for a long time asking myself if it’s possible to live that way. I never got my answer due to other issues overshadowing the sex issue and now we’ve divorced. 

I also spent a lot of time trying to define what love itself actually is but never came up with a satisfactory answer because everything that I thought love was actually seemed a little bit selfish. Not selfish in an outright greedy sort of way, it was more like realizing that the feelings may not be a benefit to both of us. For instance, love is not wanting anyone else to experience the same level of intimacy and bonding with my partner. (selfish) Is that love? I’m not convinced that it is, it seems more like jealousy. Or is love more like respect, admiration and concern for the partners well being, to the point of being willing to sacrifice ones own well being to protect the partner? (not selfish) That’s more like the love of a parent for their child, not the romantic type.

I dont know what love is either and I don’t know that love necessarily follows good/great sex. I do know we get attached and we don’t want our partners to be with others when we’re attached but I don’t know that that constitutes genuine love. Why does feeling such strong attachment cause us to expect so much more? I don’t know the answer to that either but it seems to be embedded in our DNA or some such thing. Sort of like the nesting instinct mothers experience in the later part of pregnancy, the urge is so strong it becomes what we want. Not the best example but it gets my point across.

I think maybe the casual but exclusive thing could probably be successful if both partners are aware of what’s going on inside themselves as far as feelings and expectations go and are aware of the fact that what they want may not actually be a conscious choice they made themselves.


----------



## bkyln309

Bananapeel said:


> @bkyln309 - Whether I should or shouldn't date is solely up to me to decide. What I've found is that quality women are as busy as I am so they seem to understand and actually appreciate that I'm not nagging them for their constant attention. The fact is that guys like me are almost never single so women are thrilled to have the opportunity to go out with me and are more than willing to work within my schedule constraints. Those that want otherwise are free to go elsewhere.


There are plenty of good guys who will gladly see me once a week. In fact, they are a dime a dozen. Once a week with no phone calls or texts is a booty call. And those women who put up with that will end up with the guy who values them enough to give them his time and his attention. That doesnt mean they are NAGGING. That means they want to know you as more than a bang buddy.

I am a single mom, two kids, senior manager at a tech company, tons of friends, who is also involved in sports. Guess what? Still have more than one day a week I can manage a date. And gasp! I even text and call multiple times a week. I am not looking for marriage or a living arrangement. I want someone who wants to be a friend and not just a lover. 

You want FB fine but dont say you dont have time. That is clearly not true.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> @bkyln309 - Whether I should or shouldn't date is solely up to me to decide. What I've found is that quality women are as busy as I am so they seem to understand and actually appreciate that I'm not nagging them for their constant attention. The fact is that guys like me are almost never single so women are thrilled to have the opportunity to go out with me and are more than willing to work within my schedule constraints. Those that want otherwise are free to go elsewhere.


Great response. You answered a post that just gets me riled up - "maybe you shouldn't date." It is up to each of us to decide when, how and why we date. The only thing we owe anyone else is honesty. I got castigated a few days to "Have some respect for your fellow human beings." What is more respectful than honesty? If someone wants to build a fantasy based on their own expectations, perhaps they owe me (or you) the respect to be honest instead of getting all butt hurt.


----------



## Not

Bananapeel said:


> @Not - If you want casual but exclusive just find someone that is super busy/engaged in life. Then they'll want to spend time with you but will be limited in the amount of time they have to offer.
> 
> For example, here's a snapshot of my life. I work full time in a professional career, have custody of my kids half time and like to be engaged with them (i.e. I cook and eat all meals together as a family, do family activities, check their homework, etc.), significantly involved religiously, volunteer on several boards including being president of an organization, volunteer time civically, workout 5+ days a week, play a recreational sport, own a home with land/animals to tend to. I also like to have a social life, spend time with friends, and time pursing hobbies. Due to that I only have the time to offer a date once per week and I need advance notice for that to get scheduled. Late invitations from women are nearly always declined by me. I also don't spend much time texting between dates (I hardly ever initiate text conversations) or even talking on the phone/skype/etc. because I don't have the time. Instead contact is done in person while we are on a date. I do really well with either a NSA or a casual but exclusive relationship. At this point in my life I don't have more time to devote than for those two options. I'm upfront about this so there are no doubts.


Reading your post left me wondering, when do you find time to rest and recharge your batteries? I’m the exact opposite and wouldn’t cope well in your situation. I get very cranky if I don’t get my me time. :grin2:

What you say makes sense though. Definite food for thought.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

bkyln309 said:


> If truly you are this busy, you shouldn't date. No woman worth her salt would be put at the bottom of this list when you feel like she can have the honor of your presence. And the reality is no one is so busy they cannot text a few times a week or have a phone call or two even for a few minutes. If you have time to socialize with friends, you have time in your life to build more of a relationship with a woman. The reality is you either dont want a relationship or you want it handed to you on a silver platter with no work involved and no commitment. Like I said, quality women wont put up with this BS.


Why shouldn't busy people date? I'd rather date someone who had a full life too, than someone who just sat around relying on others to fill their schedule.

If I find someone who turns out to be wonderful, I will MAKE more time for them. But until that happens, I am not going to prioritize near-strangers over my normal life.

It takes time and sometimes unpleasant effort to separate wheat from chaff, especially with online dating, and that's the part I am not prioritizing.


----------



## Bananapeel

bkyln309 said:


> There are plenty of good guys who will gladly see me once a week. In fact, they are a dime a dozen. If that's what you're good for then more power to you. Once a week with no phone calls or texts is a booty call. And those women who put up with that will end up with the guy who values them enough to give them his time and his attention. You act like women have all the power here, and can pick and choose which quality guy they are going to date, which is not the current dating dynamic. That doesnt mean they are NAGGING. Sure it does, if it is unwanted contact. That means they want to know you as more than a bang buddy.
> 
> I am a single mom, two kids, senior manager at a tech company, tons of friends, who is also involved in sports. Guess what? Still have more than one day a week I can manage a date. But you are not in high demand by the guys that have lots of choices. We aren't going to pick people that don't fit into our schedule. And gasp! I even text and call multiple times a week. I am not looking for marriage or a living arrangement. I want someone who wants to be a friend and not just a lover. Look, we're obviously dating in different pools.
> 
> You want FB fine but dont say you dont have time. That is clearly not true. Everything I've said is completely true.


You obviously have a hard time understanding relationships that are different than what you are used to.

I do respect your point of view though, even though I wouldn't tolerate it. If I went on a date with a woman that didn't value my time and acted entitled, there is about a 90% chance I'd walk out in the middle of the date and never contact you again.


----------



## john117

Who needs casseroles?


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> You obviously have a hard time understanding relationships that are different than what you are used to.
> 
> I do respect your point of view though, even though I wouldn't tolerate it. If I went on a date with a woman that didn't value my time and acted entitled, there is about a 90% chance I'd walk out in the middle of the date and never contact you again.


It does seem that the people most vehemently opposed to your thinking are women who are determined to maintain control over the whole dating process. They get angry whenever that control is challenged. Sometimes going so far as to accuse you of not respecting others! They can't seem to understand, the only person they can control is themselves. Others are free to accept or reject whatever is offered. I can't wrap my brain around how this is misogynistic, sexist or disrespectful.


----------



## RandomDude

@Not

Haha yeah and alot of folks say FWBs is selfish! Funny that...


----------



## Bananapeel

Ynot said:


> It does seem that the people most vehemently opposed to your thinking are women who are determined to maintain control over the whole dating process. They get angry whenever that control is challenged. Sometimes going so far as to accuse you of not respecting others! They can't seem to understand, the only person they can control is themselves. Others are free to accept or reject whatever is offered. I can't wrap my brain around how this is misogynistic, sexist or disrespectful.


It's actually just misandry that is prevalent in the rabid feminist camp, especially from women that have dropped in sexual desirability due to their age and having kids.


----------



## Red Sonja

john117 said:


> Just taking an inventory of what's in the stupid house for property settlement is a career. It's like inventorying the freaking Louvre. Everything exists in duplicate or worse. I could host a dinner for 50 and not borrow one plate.


I had a similar problem during my divorce (house full of a lifetime of "stuff"). I hired an estate seller/auctioneer, they do everything ... inventory, setting up an online auction, pickup after the auction ... and then hand you a check, the amount of that check then becomes part of the property settlement. Everything sold, even stuff I thought no one would want. It took two weeks from start to finish.

All you have to do is identify property that you want to keep, put that in a separate area in the house and let the estate workers have at the rest.


----------



## minimalME

john117 said:


> Costco chicken tonight!!!


Costco seafood is insane! Scallops the size of steaks.


----------



## Elizabeth001

minimalME said:


> Costco seafood is insane! Scallops the size of steaks.













Yep...these babies are a little tough unless you cook them just right. Gotta love Costco tho!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

I'm such a coward. So frightened on the sea, yet so intrigued. You know what I did on my scuba dive? I went, freaked out. And sat there on an underwater log just watching the fishies, took me a while before I calmed down, so scared of something big coming towards me from outta the fog. Yet, it was so... surreal.

I love the water and marine life (especially eating it!), but wanna get rid of this bathophobia so I can actually enjoy it (which I do) without freaking out as soon as I see even a hint of a shadow.

Then again... maybe the fear is wise, considering my country is known for its bloody monsters and sea monsters >.<


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> I'm such a coward. So frightened on the sea, yet so intrigued. You know what I did on my scuba dive? I went, freaked out. And sat there on an underwater log just watching the fishies, took me a while before I calmed down, so scared of something big coming towards me from outta the fog. Yet, it was so... surreal.
> 
> I love the water and marine life (especially eating it!), but wanna get rid of this bathophobia so I can actually enjoy it (which I do) without freaking out as soon as I see even a hint of a shadow.
> 
> Then again... maybe the fear is wise, considering my country is known for its bloody monsters and sea monsters >.<


I did the same thing on my first scuba dive. So don't sweat it. As a matter of fact I did the same thing the first time I ever went caving. Then I looked around and thought "all of these people are smart intelligent people (they were all grad students). None of them would purposefully be doing anything so stupid as to risk their lives" Then I calmed down and thoroughly enjoyed myself.


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> I did the same thing on my first scuba dive. So don't sweat it. As a matter of fact I did the same thing the first time I ever went caving. Then I looked around and thought "all of these people are smart intelligent people (they were all grad students). None of them would purposefully be doing anything so stupid as to risk their lives" Then I calmed down and thoroughly enjoyed myself.


I dunno, I had this phobia since when I was much younger I freaked the hell out when snorkeling and saw one of these:










A mini-kraken!!! Wonder if I'm ever to get over this fear to enjoy myself. Though I guess I did enjoy myself so far sure - as much as I enjoy scaring the crap outta myself watching a horror movie lol


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> A mini-kraken!!!


----------



## Ynot

Have one of these - hair of the dog type response!


----------



## RandomDude

Heh its fun to think about it now, but I might panic if I see one of those again!


----------



## RandomDude

WTF... weirdest dream, had a dream I had a ONS with one of my female friends. I didn't think I liked her, but I liked the dream!

Must... get... back... in the game... soon... think this recent celibacy is driving me further into insanity!


----------



## Bananapeel

I got contacted a couple days ago on FB by a woman I met over a year ago at a party. Weird that she remembered me from that long ago and was able to find me on FB.


----------



## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> I got contacted a couple days ago on FB by a woman I met over a year ago at a party. Weird that she remembered me from that long ago and was able to find me on FB.


And? Got a date?


----------



## Bananapeel

I asked her out on a date (she accepted) and started to plan one but there's some drama going on in her life now (ex-bf stuff) so we're going to postpone this for a bit. I've still got others I'm casually seeing so it's no big deal either way. I am a sucker for European women, so hopefully the drama clears up. It was quite flattering for her to reach out after all this time.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> I asked her out on a date (she accepted) and started to plan one but there's some drama going on in her life now (ex-bf stuff) so we're going to postpone this for a bit. I've still got others I'm casually seeing so it's no big deal either way. I am a sucker for European women, so hopefully the drama clears up. It was quite flattering for her to reach out after all this time.


Yeah I was contacted by a woman I never even talked to from a MeetUp. She asked me to join her at a Christmas Party. If I hadn't just started into a relationship with someone else I would have taken her up on the invite. It is flattering.


----------



## Ynot

Ok, so I have had a few drinks and I am feeling a little pissed off at the moment. My step-sons Dad had an aneurysm and is on a ventilator. His long time GF had broken up with him right after New Years. So he is pretty much alone right now. It started me thinking about our mutual ex and how big of a quitter she is. When our relationship hit a crisis, she couldn't be bothered to work on it. It was a waste of her time. Who gives a sh!t after 24 years. Anyways I am sure tomorrow when I sober up a little I will get back to not caring. But ****! Right now I am so pissed!


----------



## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> I asked her out on a date (she accepted) and started to plan one but there's some drama going on in her life now (ex-bf stuff) so we're going to postpone this for a bit. I've still got others I'm casually seeing so it's no big deal either way. I am a sucker for European women, so hopefully the drama clears up. It was quite flattering for her to reach out after all this time.


Haha maybe she had a dream about you and decided to stalk you and message you? That's what happened to me


----------



## minimalME

@Ursula

Just stumbled across this article and loved it:

Dating Doesn't Work

_Dating is merely a technique for gaining sex, not relationships. It’s a miracle invention for men who want no-strings attached fun, and I have benefited from it for over 15 years. I almost can’t believe that I can **** a girl after only knowing her for a couple of hours, all from making a few jokes and maintaining a beautiful beard, but that’s exactly what dating allows. All parties come to an end, however, leaving me and many others of my generation with no partner we love or otherwise happy ending that you see in Pedowood movies, because dating was never designed to help you find life-long partners. It’s a dead-end that explains why so many Western adults in their 30’s have never had a committed monogamous relationship of even a year in length._ ~ Roosh


----------



## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> @Ursula
> 
> Just stumbled across this article and loved it:
> 
> Dating Doesn't Work
> 
> _Dating is merely a technique for gaining sex, not relationships. It’s a miracle invention for men who want no-strings attached fun, and I have benefited from it for over 15 years. I almost can’t believe that I can **** a girl after only knowing her for a couple of hours, all from making a few jokes and maintaining a beautiful beard, but that’s exactly what dating allows. All parties come to an end, however, leaving me and many others of my generation with no partner we love or otherwise happy ending that you see in Pedowood movies, because dating was never designed to help you find life-long partners. It’s a dead-end that explains why so many Western adults in their 30’s have never had a committed monogamous relationship of even a year in length._ ~ Roosh


So... if dating does work, what do we do? lol


----------



## FeministInPink

minimalME said:


> @Ursula
> 
> Just stumbled across this article and loved it:
> 
> Dating Doesn't Work
> 
> _Dating is merely a technique for gaining sex, not relationships. It’s a miracle invention for men who want no-strings attached fun, and I have benefited from it for over 15 years. I almost can’t believe that I can **** a girl after only knowing her for a couple of hours, all from making a few jokes and maintaining a beautiful beard, but that’s exactly what dating allows. All parties come to an end, however, leaving me and many others of my generation with no partner we love or otherwise happy ending that you see in Pedowood movies, because dating was never designed to help you find life-long partners. It’s a dead-end that explains why so many Western adults in their 30’s have never had a committed monogamous relationship of even a year in length._ ~ Roosh


Ah, yes, Roosh V, the patron saint of douchey guys:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-roosh-v-valizadeh-and-his-acolytes-pilloried

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Ah, yes, Roosh V, the patron saint of douchey guys:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-roosh-v-valizadeh-and-his-acolytes-pilloried
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Wow, followed a link on that article, also found this:

Are Roosh V?s ?Bang? books how-to guides for rape? :: We Hunted The Mammoth



> While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated.
> 
> I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.
> 
> If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the **** no matter how much she has drunk. …
> 
> I figure my **** was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her ***** was drier than the Sahara desert.
> 
> We moved to my bed. I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.” I was so turned on by her beauty and petite figure that I told myself she’s not walking out my door without getting ****ed. At that moment I accepted the idea of getting locked up in a Polish prison to make it happen.
> 
> I put on a condom, lubed up, and finally got her consent to put it in. … I put her on her stomach and went deep, pounding her ***** like a pedophile. She took it like a champ even though I imagine it must have felt like being ****ed by a telescope. My orgasm was from another world.


Well that's disturbing.


----------



## Ynot

Yeah, *********s like Roosh are not exactly the sort of person anyone should be taking advice from, male or female.


----------



## Ursula

Yikes, that is disturbing. And yeah, if dating doesn't work then the world's single population are all hooped.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Wow, followed a link on that article, also found this:
> 
> Are Roosh V?s ?Bang? books how-to guides for rape? :: We Hunted The Mammoth
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's disturbing.


Yup, this guy is human garbage. He's a horrible person.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Stupid potty filter. You can call some douchey which implies the same thing as a ********* and the potty filter strikes it out. Are people here really that sensitive that they have to be protected from words?
Even funnier it will strike out ********* but not douche bag


----------



## RandomDude

Why hasn't he been charged? Unless he's just full of sh-t.

Yet even if he's just full of sh-t I'm surprised people published his crap.


----------



## Bananapeel

I'm surprised he'd be so desperate to get laid that he'd have bad sex with women that were clearly not into him, and then brag about it. I'd be interested in knowing his backstory and the psychological trauma that made him that way because it just isn't normal.


----------



## RandomDude

Pffft, subhuman trash... Not worth trying to understand him, only to clean him out off the streets and become some entertainment for his jail mates.

Anyway I don't get these pick-up artists and the men who follow them, this "person" is the worst but he's not the only "PUA". Hell to be honest the whole alpha/beta sh-t is going too far. Yes there are some balanced books out there apparently (TBH I never read them but it seems to be universally acclaimed) such as Mr. Nice Guy or Married Man Sex Life mentioned here on this forum.

But then you get all sorts of "PUAs". What's the deal with scoring as many women as possible? Hell I'm happy with just ONE cuddlebunny to have as long as I can before she starts complicating things, and the sex has always been better with a friend than with complete strangers. Relationships isn't rocket science, you don't need to be anyone else either than yourself and if you don't have confidence in who you are at your core, trying to fake confidence by being someone else most women will see right through that anyway.

Meh


----------



## Bananapeel

I can explain it to you. Being a PUA is just a simple marketing tool. The business is to sell the possibility of getting laid to guys that have historically had poor luck meeting women. The guys are desperate enough that they'll follow any "leader" that they think will give them an edge. The fame the leaders have is based on their so called stats with the number of phone numbers they get or women they sleep with. If you read the book "the game" it mentions the seminars these guys are giving and the types of guys paying for them, and it's somewhat pathetic. However, there is some good stuff the PUA's can teach such as how to read body language in women, how to have body language that makes you approachable vs standoffish, etc. that can really help some guys that don't know how to read social situations or interact with women.


----------



## RandomDude

Reading body language/being more approachable is all well and good but then the rest is mubble gumble about their idea of an "alpha male", giving these vulnerable men poor role models. But I guess misoygny sells better.

A socially inept nice guy you can work with, he has the foundation, he just needs to learn how to assert himself. A socially inept nice guy who tries to be someone he's not though? It's funny sure but it's also quite pathetic. Worse if people like Roosh encourage them to go out and abuse women.

Bah, but I guess there's no solution is there? There was a recent thread about arranged marriages and everyone assumed that arranged marriage meant 'forced marriage' when it seemed to me more like an 'introduction' and marriage was a choice they made themselves. It makes me wonder if that structure is simply superior than others, a nice guy would have had help from others to meet some compatible with him, problem solved, no need for all this misoygny and alpha/beta BS. Not everyone can be leaders or whatever society expects us all to be to be 'successful', a humble loyal man is more respectable than an incompetent leader after all.


----------



## Bananapeel

I think there is credence to the alpha/beta stuff, just that many people misinterpret what it actually means. Again, this PUA stuff is just a business so what "coaches" are doing is trying to find their business niche so they can stand out and make $$$. There is some good stuff they teach that can help a subset of the population, and I'm sure even a douche like Roosh probably has a few good points that can be taken after you discard the mounds of other crap he's spewing. I guess my point is look at it with an open mind and realize that for the target audience there may be value in some of what is being taught by some of the coaches. But like anything else, it's buyer beware. 

There actually is a great solution to this problem. It is for men to stay involved in their son's lives and teach them how to interact properly with women. That's what I do with my boys and they are going to have no problems interacting with girls when they get older. We've already worked through how to read body language, how to determine interest level so they know when to continue their interaction and when to move on, how much money to spend on a date, how to deal with a maybe/vague response when you ask a girl out, how to not care about rejection and understand how it benefits you, how to break out of the friend zone, etc. We've also chatted about safe sex and consent. My oldest son is reading about leadership skills and interpersonal relationships (he reads adult books and usually takes my books after I'm done with them), so he'll be well ahead of the curve when he becomes a teenager. That, IMO, is the best option, but lots of boys don't get that from their fathers and struggle to find a role model to look up to.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> I think there is credence to the alpha/beta stuff, just that many people misinterpret what it actually means. Again, this PUA stuff is just a business so what "coaches" are doing is trying to find their business niche so they can stand out and make $$$. There is some good stuff they teach that can help a subset of the population, and I'm sure even a douche like Roosh probably has a few good points that can be taken after you discard the mounds of other crap he's spewing. I guess my point is look at it with an open mind and realize that for the target audience there may be value in some of what is being taught by some of the coaches. But like anything else, it's buyer beware.
> 
> There actually is a great solution to this problem. It is for men to stay involved in their son's lives and teach them how to interact properly with women. That's what I do with my boys and they are going to have no problems interacting with girls when they get older. We've already worked through how to read body language, how to determine interest level so they know when to continue their interaction and when to move on, how much money to spend on a date, how to deal with a maybe/vague response when you ask a girl out, how to not care about rejection and understand how it benefits you, how to break out of the friend zone, etc. We've also chatted about safe sex and consent. My oldest son is reading about leadership skills and interpersonal relationships (he reads adult books and usually takes my books after I'm done with them), so he'll be well ahead of the curve when he becomes a teenager. That, IMO, is the best option, but lots of boys don't get that from their fathers and struggle to find a role model to look up to.


The last paragraph is something that I see more and more often. For the most part fathers have been removed from the home, either because of work or sometimes because of divorce. The children are often raised by their mothers. When they go to school most primary teachers are women. So for the most part children (boys and girls) are raised and socialized by women. Most boys and young men grow up with no male role models in their lives.
I know that was the case with me. My dad worked nights. He slept during the day. I might have seen him for an hour or two everyday. We didn't play catch. He didn't come to any of my games. He was largely uninvolved in my life. I can draw a direct line to some of my past issues to that reality.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Ynot said:


> The last paragraph is something that I see more and more often. For the most part fathers have been removed from the home, either because of work or sometimes because of divorce. The children are often raised by their mothers. When they go to school most primary teachers are women. So for the most part children (boys and girls) are raised and socialized by women. Most boys and young men grow up with no male role models in their lives.
> I know that was the case with me. My dad worked nights. He slept during the day. I might have seen him for an hour or two everyday. We didn't play catch. He didn't come to any of my games. He was largely uninvolved in my life. I can draw a direct line to some of my past issues to that reality.


But why can't mothers teach these skills as well? A parent of any gender can teach a child of any gender how to be a good human being.

Your dad taught you that some people care more about their career or personal life than their children. There's no reason to think that's gender-linked.


----------



## Ynot

Hopeful Cynic said:


> But why can't mothers teach these skills as well? A parent of any gender can teach a child of any gender how to be a good human being.
> 
> Your dad taught you that some people care more about their career or personal life than their children. There's no reason to think that's gender-linked.


I am sorry but women can't teach men to be men. Yes, anyone can teach someone how to be a good, generic, human being, but regardless of what is politically correct these days, men and women are wired differently. Men are not just girls without curves and women are not just men with curves.

As to my father, he worked the night shift because he had a family to feed. Believe me if anyone cared less about his career, that was my father. It also had nothing to do with his personal life. I am sure he would have rather not had to work midnights, but with eight kids and some hefty medical bills from my mother's cancer such was not his station in life.

And YES, there is absolutely reason to think the current state of masculinity is gender based. We are not the same whatever you imagine.


----------



## Ynot

Hopeful Cynic said:


> But why can't mothers teach these skills as well? A parent of any gender can teach a child of any gender how to be a good human being.


I should add unless you think being a good human being involves denying your self to make others happy. Because a large part of the problem (the one BP was talking about - men who do not know how to be men) arises from this mistaken idea. In many ways it is the Trojan Horse of feminism, to which only more recently have men been waking up to the terrible impact it is having on their lives (as well as the other wise innocent women it was intended to empower)


----------



## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> *I should add unless you think being a good human being involves denying your self to make others happy.* Because a large part of the problem (the one BP was talking about - men who do not know how to be men) arises from this mistaken idea. In many ways it is the Trojan Horse of feminism, to which only more recently have men been waking up to the terrible impact it is having on their lives (as well as the other wise innocent women it was intended to empower)


I cannot speak for others however that is NOT my definition of a "good human being" and is NOT what I taught my child. The bolded is disordered thinking.


----------



## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> I cannot speak for others however that is NOT my definition of a "good human being" and is NOT what I taught *my child.* The bolded is disordered thinking.


Yes, the bolded part is disordered thinking. Either you had a son or you had a daughter. Regardless of which way they may choose, they chose one and THAT is what you had. A child is too generic. I can tell you that I have just as little inside knowledge on how it feels to have my first period as you do the first time a boy has nocturnal emissions. I didn't have a child or children. I had a son and a daughter.


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## RandomDude

Hopeful Cynic said:


> But why can't mothers teach these skills as well? A parent of any gender can teach a child of any gender how to be a good human being.
> 
> Your dad taught you that some people care more about their career or personal life than their children. There's no reason to think that's gender-linked.





Ynot said:


> I am sorry but women can't teach men to be men. Yes, anyone can teach someone how to be a good, generic, human being, but regardless of what is politically correct these days, men and women are wired differently. Men are not just girls without curves and women are not just men with curves.
> 
> As to my father, he worked the night shift because he had a family to feed. Believe me if anyone cared less about his career, that was my father. It also had nothing to do with his personal life. I am sure he would have rather not had to work midnights, but with eight kids and some hefty medical bills from my mother's cancer such was not his station in life.
> 
> And YES, there is absolutely reason to think the current state of masculinity is gender based. We are not the same whatever you imagine.


Heh I dunno, my mum was the wisest dating couch ever. She simply said, earn $$$, then I can pick and choose. And wow, she was right for the most part :rofl:

Hell deep down I always hated that lol


----------



## Ynot

I had an interesting first date last night. It was all sort of impromptu. But I met this woman for a beer and we seemed to hit it off pretty well. We started getting hungry and we ended up going back to her Dad and step mom's place, where her daughter, sister and two of her daughter's friends were at. Her daughter stayed in a different room and her dad is bed ridden. So neither of those two were really involved. My date, her step mom, sister and her sister's friends ended up sitting around the kitchen table BSing most of the evening into the morning. He step mom is probably in her late 60's, my date in her late 50's and her sister and friends were mid 20's. 
The conversation careened from one subject to the next. It covered practically anything you can imagine. The step mom's lack of sexual activity, her sister thinking some guy liked her, her friend's anger at taking her drunk boyfriend home and not getting any action, her other friend's wedding fantasy. I participated in the discussions, but for the most part I was just an observer, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
These women acted as if I wasn't there and didn't pull any punches (as far as I knew). It was interesting to get the perspective from all the different age groups.
All I can say is that all in all it was an interesting first date.


----------



## RandomDude

You met her family on the first date?! You are a very brave man! Patient too it seems, as I would have been bored out of my brain listening to the blah blahs of strangers lol

Unless it's TAM, which tends to be more amusing


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## Ynot

Nah, it wasn't like she took me home to meet her family, it wasn't like she took me home to meet her family, it was more like we just went to a party. Although we both thought it was weird. She asked me if I was OK with going to that party. I said I was. I am at the point in my life where I would rather have the experience than worry about being uncomfortable. It was far from boring, it was extremely interesting hearing the various POV on different topics. They made me feel very welcome. It was a situation I had not been in for many years - a family sitting around talking and partying together. I had fun. My own family (siblings) had been like that before my Dad died. Now everyone has an agenda and an image to uphold. I do enjoy some of that with my kids, but I think they hold back a little out of uncertainty.


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## RandomDude

Hehe 

I have a date!!!  Hehehe

Why do I feel so happy? Hehe 

Went back to work after lunch with a MASSIVE grin on my face everyone was asking me what happened lol


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Hehe
> 
> I have a date!!!  Hehehe
> 
> Why do I feel so happy? Hehe
> 
> Went back to work after lunch with a MASSIVE grin on my face everyone was asking me what happened lol


Yay!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

So... Real Estate and I have been together now for 2 years! I kind of can't believe it... it doesn't feel like that long. And we've both come a long way in that time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> So... Real Estate and I have been together now for 2 years! I kind of can't believe it... it doesn't feel like that long. And we've both come a long way in that time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Congrats!


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Yay!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Lol I honestly can't even believe it worked. I saw her, drop dead gorgeous, stunning, and decided to myself, you know what, I'm making my move. But it was so difficult as she was at work and it was public, I didn't want to put her on the spot and potentially embarrass her, so I came up with what I thought was a solution... I slipped her a note with my card 

And it actually worked! She texted >.<! :rofl:

... and now, I dunno what to do :| I didn't expect such a fast response - and I had an eight month break since cuddlebunny!


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## RandomDude

I feel soooooooooooooooo SEXY!  Hahahaha lol 

I mean happy lol ... or both hehe

Just stepped back out on the field and got a positive response from the first stunner I hit on... well, theoretically she hit on me first with her eyes, posture, my instinct says, 'she thinks you're cute', and instinct in this case was 100% sharp. Can't describe how good that feels... like, just wow. Confidence boost.

I doubt I would have got such a response doing what everyone is doing going online dating and all that. OLD FASHION WAY WORKS! And maybe would even work better nowadays considering there are very few people bold enough to make a move face to face these days. So guys! Even if the environment makes it difficult, just slip a note! IT WORKS! :rofl:


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> So... Real Estate and I have been together now for 2 years! I kind of can't believe it... it doesn't feel like that long. And we've both come a long way in that time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That's... a long time! Any plans to take it further?


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> my instinct says, 'she thinks you're cute'


You are cute. 

Even when I 100% disagree with you, I find your personality delightful.


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## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> You are cute.
> 
> Even when I 100% disagree with you, I find your personality delightful.


Lol I'm already blushing please don't...  hehe


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> I feel soooooooooooooooo SEXY!  Hahahaha lol
> 
> I mean happy lol ... or both hehe
> 
> Just stepped back out on the field and got a positive response from the first stunner I hit on... well, theoretically she hit on me first with her eyes, posture, my instinct says, 'she thinks you're cute', and instinct in this case was 100% sharp. Can't describe how good that feels... like, just wow. Confidence boost.
> 
> I doubt I would have got such a response doing what everyone is doing going online dating and all that. OLD FASHION WAY WORKS! And maybe would even work better nowadays considering there are very few people bold enough to make a move face to face these days. So guys! Even if the environment makes it difficult, just slip a note! IT WORKS! :rofl:


Yeah, I am finding the same thing. Meeting IRL works best. I was out for drinks last night with one of my recent women of interest. We were talking about meeting people and dating. We were both in agreement that very few people are willing to put themselves out there. Instead they will sit behind a computer screen and tentatively make or allow contact with someone, knowing all they have risked nothing in doing so
BTW, this one I met at a MeetUp. I didn't even get a chance to talk to her at the MeetUp event. She was leaving as I was entering. But she caught my eye and as she later told me I caught hers as well. I emailed her thru MeetUp and we ended up going out for drinks. Plus it turns out she had met a woman I had dated previously at a different Meet Up. The ex-GF had nothing but good things to say about me. So another lesson would be to act like an adult and treat everyone with respect and courtesy even if things don't turn out as you had hoped.


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## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> Yeah, I am finding the same thing. Meeting IRL works best. I was out for drinks last night with one of my recent women of interest. We were talking about meeting people and dating. We were both in agreement that very few people are willing to put themselves out there. Instead they will sit behind a computer screen and tentatively make or allow contact with someone, knowing all they have risked nothing in doing so. BTW, this one I met at a MeetUp. I didn't even get a chance to talk to her at the MeetUp event. She was leaving as I was entering. But she caught my eye and as she later told me I caught hers as well. I emailed her thru MeetUp and we ended up going out for drinks. Plus it turns out she had met a woman I had dated previously at a different Meet Up. The ex-GF had nothing but good things to say about me. So another lesson would be to act like an adult and treat everyone with respect and courtesy.


Yup!










Hell this new lady also mentioned "not sure if this is the safest thing to do..." when she texted me, so she also took a risk! Which is... very flattering I must admit  lol

And damn right women talk! It's best to be mature and respectful, which is another reason I just facepalm when I see all these "PUA"s with horrid attitudes towards women!


----------



## Ynot

On a completely unrelated topic, I just scheduled surgery to repair an inguinal hernia that has been bothering me for a few years. I tried to go the traditional route of going to my PCP for a referral to a specialist. No one could given me any clue as to how much it was going to cost me. And seeing how badly they tried to rape me for just an office visit, I figured it would exceed my deductible and then some. 
I asked him about a vasectomy and he said we would need to get another surgeon in but it would require co-ordinating schedules and would cost even more money.
I checked around for alternatives and found a general surgeon who does the hernia procedure for a flat rate of less than $2000. He will also do a vasectomy for an additional $450. So for less than half of my deductible, I will have both procedures done at one time and I will take a short vacation where I am having it done.
In the meantime, I am just laying low and casually pursuing life.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> On a completely unrelated topic, I just scheduled surgery to repair an inguinal hernia that has been bothering me for a few years. I tried to go the traditional route of going to my PCP for a referral to a specialist. No one could given me any clue as to how much it was going to cost me. And seeing how badly they tried to rape me for just an office visit, I figured it would exceed my deductible and then some.
> I asked him about a vasectomy and he said we would need to get another surgeon in but it would require co-ordinating schedules and would cost even more money.
> I checked around for alternatives and found a general surgeon who does the hernia procedure for a flat rate of less than $2000. He will also do a vasectomy for an additional $450. So for less than half of my deductible, I will have both procedures done at one time and I will take a short vacation where I am having it done.
> In the meantime, I am just laying low and casually pursuing life.


It is beneficial to shop around, clearly.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Medical tourism for the win! 

I saved like $12K the last time. It's incredible the price variance.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> That's... a long time! Any plans to take it further?


Honestly, it would be difficult to take it any further. He is dead set against ever getting married again or even living together, and you can't plan a future with someone who isn't willing to make a commitment.

And this morning, he brought up that he wants to start experimenting more, kink-wise, beyond our present parameters. He wants us to move in a direction that frankly I have no desire for, and which really goes beyond GGG and taking one for the team.

I didn't say much in response to all this when he brought it up, because I needed to sort through my feelings and really understand where I was coming from before responding. 

ETA: This may be something that will cause us to split up. It may really be that divisive; it's a question of whether he thinks this is a need or just a want for him.


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## growing_weary

john117 said:


> Who needs casseroles?


I feed this to my cat. He loves all the fish flavors and hates the beef or duck.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Honestly, it would be difficult to take it any further. He is dead set against ever getting married again or even living together, and you can't plan a future with someone who isn't willing to make a commitment.


Damn... but if you two can be happy with that, like, hell I would be happy with that. Marriage and living together is not for everyone.

It gives me some hope too, like, think this is what I'm going to try with this new lady, a relationship with no expectations. (Which btw, I still can't believe, I'm like a ricochet coming back to the game this year lol)



> And this morning, he brought up that he wants to start experimenting more, kink-wise, beyond our present parameters. He wants us to move in a direction that frankly I have no desire for, and which really goes beyond GGG and taking one for the team.
> 
> I didn't say much in response to all this when he brought it up, because I needed to sort through my feelings and really understand where I was coming from before responding.
> 
> ETA: This may be something that will cause us to split up. It may really be that divisive; it's a question of whether he thinks this is a need or just a want for him.


Hmmm, I hope it isn't what I think it is. Let's hope it's just a kink, as somethings are best left to fantasies. You can role-play some of it as a compromise.


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## growing_weary

FeministInPink said:


> Honestly, it would be difficult to take it any further. He is dead set against ever getting married again or even living together, and you can't plan a future with someone who isn't willing to make a commitment.
> 
> And this morning, he brought up that he wants to start experimenting more, kink-wise, beyond our present parameters. He wants us to move in a direction that frankly I have no desire for, and which really goes beyond GGG and taking one for the team.
> 
> I didn't say much in response to all this when he brought it up, because I needed to sort through my feelings and really understand where I was coming from before responding.
> 
> ETA: This may be something that will cause us to split up. It may really be that divisive; it's a question of whether he thinks this is a need or just a want for him.



That sounds like it could be a dealbreaker. Really depends on what it represents for you. :/


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Damn... but if you two can be happy with that, like, hell I would be happy with that. Marriage and living together is not for everyone.
> 
> It gives me some hope too, like, think this is what I'm going to try with this new lady, a relationship with no expectations. (Which btw, I still can't believe, I'm like a ricochet coming back to the game this year lol)


I would like to get married again, and things would be a helluva lot easier in general if we lived together... But I'm not living with a man again unless we're married. I'm not willing to give up my independence for anyone who's not willing to make an actual commitment to me.

But I would be content to stay in a healthy LTR in which I am loved and valued, even if it means we will never marry. I was married before, and I was neither valued nor loved. In this arrangement, however, there are still expectations. Don't kid yourself thinking this means no expectations.



RandomDude said:


> Hmmm, I hope it isn't what I think it is. Let's hope it's just a kink, as somethings are best left to fantasies. You can role-play some of it as a compromise.


He mentioned swinging, initially--he wants to go to a swingers night at our local club. And I said that I don't want to swing, and he responded that he's not looking for it, but he wants to be open to it if the right opportunity presents itself.

I made it clear that I am not sharing him. So then he brought up the possibility of a MMF three-way; his fantasy is seeing me pleasured by another man. I will admit that I've had the fantasy of two men doing me at once, but I also think this is the type of fantasy left unexplored IRL. I have always been, and will always be, a one-man kind of woman. And I also can't separate the emotion from sex. If I allow another man to **** me, it is a recipe for disaster in our relationship. My emotions will get all mixed up, and there will be a lot of self-loathing involved, and I will be angry with him for talking me into something I didn't want to do in the first place.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I would like to get married again, and things would be a helluva lot easier in general if we lived together... But I'm not living with a man again unless we're married. I'm not willing to give up my independence for anyone who's not willing to make an actual commitment to me.
> 
> But I would be content to stay in a healthy LTR in which I am loved and valued, even if it means we will never marry. I was married before, and I was neither valued nor loved. In this arrangement, however, there are still expectations. Don't kid yourself thinking this means no expectations.


Mmmm what expectations?



> He mentioned swinging, initially--he wants to go to a swingers night at our local club. And I said that I don't want to swing, and he responded that he's not looking for it, but he wants to be open to it if the right opportunity presents itself.
> 
> I made it clear that I am not sharing him. So then he brought up the possibility of a MMF three-way; his fantasy is seeing me pleasured by another man. I will admit that I've had the fantasy of two men doing me at once, but I also think this is the type of fantasy left unexplored IRL. I have always been, and will always be, a one-man kind of woman. And I also can't separate the emotion from sex. If I allow another man to **** me, it is a recipe for disaster in our relationship. My emotions will get all mixed up, and there will be a lot of self-loathing involved, and I will be angry with him for talking me into something I didn't want to do in the first place.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I knew it >.<! Oh no!

Be strong and really stand your ground on this, and yes he will respect you more. I also offered ex-wife but when she told me "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your friends" I never asked her again, and glad she told me off. If he really wants to be humiliated sexually just roleplay, just get him to blindfold you and pretend to be an OM and just tease and cuckold him like "mmm much better than my bf" or something . Argh... hard to describe without making it so silly


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Mmmm what expectations?


The same expectations as any other LTR, including fidelity.



RandomDude said:


> I knew it >.<! Oh no!
> 
> Be strong and really stand your ground on this, and yes he will respect you more. I also offered ex-wife but when she told me "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your friends" I never asked her again, and glad she told me off. If he really wants to be humiliated sexually just roleplay, just get him to blindfold you and pretend to be an OM and just tease and cuckold him like "mmm much better than my bf" or something . Argh... hard to describe without making it so silly


I don't think he realizes how much it HURTS when he basically says that he would be ok with sharing me. And the more I think about it and talk about it here, the more this pissed me off, because he and I already talked about this. I established my boundaries previously. Maybe he didn't take me seriously before. Maybe he thought I would change my mind. Maybe he thought he could change my mind.

Whatever. I'm not doing anything I don't want to do, and he and I will be having a conversation about this when I get done with work this evening.



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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> The same expectations as any other LTR, including fidelity.


Well, if the expectations are like what I had with ex-FWB-turned-GF, honesty, fidelity, can live with that, happy with that actually. 

Marriage, living together and more children though? Not a chance!



> I don't think he realizes how much it HURTS when he basically says that he would be ok with sharing me. And the more I think about it and talk about it here, the more this pissed me off, because he and I already talked about this. I established my boundaries previously. Maybe he didn't take me seriously before. Maybe he thought I would change my mind. Maybe he thought he could change my mind.
> 
> Whatever. I'm not doing anything I don't want to do, and he and I will be having a conversation about this when I get done with work this evening.
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


:|

Be strong, you'll get through this. I don't think he's stupid to throw everything away just for a silly fantasy, just make it very clear: NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

I'm sure he'll come around.


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## FeministInPink

growing_weary said:


> That sounds like it could be a dealbreaker. Really depends on what it represents for you. :/


Yes, it could be. If he decides this is something he needs, or thinks he has to experience, he is free to do so. But not with me as his partner/girlfriend.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Well, if the expectations are like what I had with ex-FWB-turned-GF, honesty, fidelity, can live with that, happy with that actually.
> 
> Marriage, living together and more children though? Not a chance!
> 
> 
> 
> :|
> 
> Be strong, you'll get through this. I don't think he's stupid to throw everything away just for a silly fantasy, just make it very clear: NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
> 
> I'm sure he'll come around.


We'll see. He said, "If I'm going to live in this lifestyle, I might as well try everything there is." At the same time, he has clear limits that he won't cross and certain things he won't do.

I do not agree with this statement. There is plenty in the "lifestyle" which I don't need to try to know it isn't right for me.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> We'll see. He said, "If I'm going to live in this lifestyle, I might as well try everything there is." At the same time, *he has clear limits that he won't cross and certain things he won't do.*
> 
> I do not agree with this statement. There is plenty in the "lifestyle" which I don't need to try to know it isn't right for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


There's your leverage. Use it tonight, but I'm sure you will 

You'll both be fine FIP, I have faith in both of you, two years is no joke


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> There's your leverage. Use it tonight, but I'm sure you will
> 
> You'll both be fine FIP, I have faith in both of you, two years is no joke


Oh, I will. There are certain, specific things that I love about sex that I am not getting in this relationship because he made it clear they were off the table for him. Those were the concessions I had to make to be in a relationship with him, but I'm not sure that he realizes this. But they will be brought up tonight.

I'm glad to know you are so confident in the outcome. However, I can't help but wonder... If this doesn't break us up now, is it only delaying the inevitable? That's the thing about having living together and marriage completely off the table... If you're not working towards a more permanent future together, then you have to assume that you will eventually break up. If that's the case, what's the point in staying together when you want something that you're not getting in the relationship?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, I will. There are certain, specific things that I love about sex that I am not getting in this relationship because he made it clear they were off the table for him. Those were the concessions I had to make to be in a relationship with him, but I'm not sure that he realizes this. But they will be brought up tonight.
> 
> I'm glad to know you are so confident in the outcome. However, I can't help but wonder... If this doesn't break us up now, is it only delaying the inevitable? That's the thing about having living together and marriage completely off the table... If you're not working towards a more permanent future together, then you have to assume that you will eventually break up. If that's the case, what's the point in staying together when you want something that you're not getting in the relationship?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You may break up eventually, or you may get married eventually, anything could happen. But even if it's the former it doesn't mean it has to be a bad experience. Cuddlebunny and I ended on a good note with no regrets, and still look back fondly on our time together.

Try not to think too much, I'm trying too, in the breaks between new lady's messages I always ponder "what if" "did I fk up", and even in the night after I sent her my note I didn't expect her to text at all. So don't overthink it, talk to him tonight, maybe things won't work out, but chances are it will.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> You may break up eventually, or you may get married eventually, anything could happen. But even if it's the former it doesn't mean it has to be a bad experience. Cuddlebunny and I ended on a good note with no regrets, and still look back fondly on our time together.
> 
> Try not to think too much, I'm trying too, in the breaks between new lady's messages I always ponder "what if" "did I fk up", and even in the night after I sent her my note I didn't expect her to text at all. So don't overthink it, talk to him tonight, maybe things won't work out, but chances are it will.


If this breaks us up, then it breaks us up. I'm prepared for that; I know it's a possible outcome. It would be worse for me if I went ahead and did this because he wants it (ignoring my own gut and doing something I don't want to do). I have to be true to myself first. That's more important.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> If this breaks us up, then it breaks us up. I'm prepared for that; I know it's a possible outcome. It would be worse for me if I went ahead and did this because he wants it (ignoring my own gut and doing something I don't want to do). I have to be true to myself first. That's more important.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


And that's why I'm sure you guys will be fine


----------



## FeministInPink

So, I talked to him. I think he is processing, because he didn't have much of a response.

He did say that he was testing the water this morning to see if I had changed my mind since the last time the topic came up.

I told him that I knew myself well enough to know that I'm not going to change my mind. And if he's staying with me because he needs swinging or a threesome or an open relationship, and he thinks that I'm going to change my mind at some point, then he probably needs to be with someone else.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FIP, you need to be true to yourself, but also be prepared if he chooses to be true to his self. We each get to choose what is best for each of us. He may choose something other than what you might choose for your self. Just be prepared because this isn't HS or college. Each of us has been thru the wringer of life and each of us gets to choose based on whatever our experiences have been. Hopefully at this point we are no longer bound by the expectations of others.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> So, I talked to him. I think he is processing, because he didn't have much of a response.
> 
> *He did say that he was testing the water this morning to see if I had changed my mind since the last time the topic came up.*
> 
> I told him that I knew myself well enough to know that I'm not going to change my mind. And if he's staying with me because he needs swinging or a threesome or an open relationship, and he thinks that I'm going to change my mind at some point, then he probably needs to be with someone else.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I knew it, and I would take his word for it. I don't think he understood how much it hurts though. If you communicate that, even if it shows some vulnerability, he would learn his lesson.

I don't think he would end things over something like this (he doesn't seem like a stupid guy), if anything it would show him you're marriage material  Maybe this is one step towards something more!


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## Bananapeel

FIP - the MFM three way is often used as an excuse to then do a FMF three way (i.e. you've gotten your fantasy so now I want mine excuse). So once you open that door then it is hard to go back. It's good that you've thought about it and discussed it because I have friends that have had negative repercussions in their committed relationships because they've tried it and it caused jealousy. IMO those things work great if you're in a casual relationship or both really want to do it, but anything different and it shouldn't be explored. I've done three ways while in a casual relationship and had a great time but I wouldn't do one in a committed relationship. 

On an unrelated note, last night I got a long text message from a woman that I broke up with about 18 months ago. She keeps texting me every few months and I thought she finally gave up because it's been about 8 months since the last one. This text was her telling me she loved me and would keep saying it until I believed her. If our genders were reversed I'd be worried about her becoming a stalker and would be a bit freaked out about now. We only dated about 6 months, the whole time I told her it was only casual and non-exclusive, and I broke up with her because she tried to force a committed relationship on me that I didn't want. I didn't respond to her message.


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## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> On an unrelated note, last night I got a long text message from a woman that I broke up with about 18 months ago. She keeps texting me every few months and I thought she finally gave up because it's been about 8 months since the last one. This text was her telling me she loved me and would keep saying it until I believed her. If our genders were reversed I'd be worried about her becoming a stalker and would be a bit freaked out about now. We only dated about 6 months, the whole time I told her it was only casual and non-exclusive, and I broke up with her because she tried to force a committed relationship on me that I didn't want. I didn't respond to her message.


ARGH... block the number if she tries again.


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## TooNice

Bananapeel said:


> If our genders were reversed I'd be worried about her becoming a stalker and would be a bit freaked out about now.


Im not sure that stalking is gender-specific... yikes.


----------



## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> ARGH... block the number if she tries again.


Already blocked her. It was insane, almost like a 7th grade girl in a sappy romance trying to win me over. I was joking with my buddy and told him that if she really wanted me to reply she should have said she had two hot friends waiting at her house to help me "relax" while she brings me a beer, turns on a UFC fight, and pulls the prime rib out of the oven. That would sure get my attention far better than some stalkerish love letter. :rofl:


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> FIP - the MFM three way is often used as an excuse to then do a FMF three way (i.e. you've gotten your fantasy so now I want mine excuse). So once you open that door then it is hard to go back. It's good that you've thought about it and discussed it because I have friends that have had negative repercussions in their committed relationships because they've tried it and it caused jealousy. IMO those things work great if you're in a casual relationship or both really want to do it, but anything different and it shouldn't be explored. I've done three ways while in a casual relationship and had a great time but I wouldn't do one in a committed relationship.


I wasn't really concerned that it would lead to a request for a FMF, as he made clear that he wasn't really interested in that, and commented that we both know he doesn't have *ahem* the staying power for two women. I have also made it really clear previously, on multiple occasions, that if his penis goes anywhere another woman's mouth, hand, or vagina, we are DONE. Unless I explicitly say it's ok. (One time at sex camp, one of our neighbors who was a big fan of our scenes, wanted to touch it. But she asked for MY permission, and was totally respectful, and in my mind it wasn't a sexual thing, it was more an appreciation thing, and I knew he would enjoy it, so I consented. Like she wanted to shake the hand of the man who made me so happy, except it was a penis instead of a hand.)

I know there would be negative percussions for our relationship if we moved forward something like this, primarily because I would be consenting to something I really don't want to do. And he sometimes doesn't think stuff through, he just thinks, "I want to do XYZ," but he doesn't think through to the potential consequences of those actions. He relies on me to do that for him sometimes, and this may be one of those situations.



Bananapeel said:


> On an unrelated note, last night I got a long text message from a woman that I broke up with about 18 months ago. She keeps texting me every few months and I thought she finally gave up because it's been about 8 months since the last one. This text was her telling me she loved me and would keep saying it until I believed her. If our genders were reversed I'd be worried about her becoming a stalker and would be a bit freaked out about now. We only dated about 6 months, the whole time I told her it was only casual and non-exclusive, and I broke up with her because she tried to force a committed relationship on me that I didn't want. I didn't respond to her message.


Can you block her number? This sounds a little ridiculous.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> Already blocked her. It was insane, almost like a 7th grade girl in a sappy romance trying to win me over. I was joking with my buddy and told him that if she really wanted me to reply she should have said she had two hot friends waiting at her house to help me "relax" while she brings me a beer, turns on a UFC fight, and pulls the prime rib out of the oven. That would sure get my attention far better than some stalkerish love letter. :rofl:


Hahaha yeah good stuff, at least it's a story to laugh about with your mates. Seriously WTF lol


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## FeministInPink

So, things were a little tense today... he's still thinking, I suppose. But he was also agitated over some work stuff. He just brought me home. I think we're ok for now, but I'm going to give him a little space to work through things.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> So, things were a little tense today... he's still thinking, I suppose. But he was also agitated over some work stuff. He just brought me home. I think we're ok for now, but I'm going to give him a little space to work through things.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Bah! Better things to think about! He'll get over it.


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## RandomDude

This new lady is intruding in my thoughts, argh! The first date anticipation is killing me...

I'm subconsciously date-planning. If we go karaoke, I'm going to sing this song: "Hey I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, so call me maybe!" 






:rofl:

ARGH... snap out of it RD >.<!


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## RandomDude

Been texting her... and is this just my eight month craziness talking... or do we actually have a sh-tload in common? It's fking scary, I can't strike the jackpot at first go.

Or can I? >.< This is insanity!


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Bah! Better things to think about! He'll get over it.


Well, I'll say this... I've definitely been challenging his way of thinking the entire time we've been together.

I DID give him a lot to think about, though. There was obviously more to the conversation that I posted on here. I told him that if he wants to improve my sexual experience (which pursuing this fantasy supposedly would do, according to him), instead of pushing something that I don't want, he should consider 1) what I actually want sexually, and 2) actually do something about his death grip syndrome. We've talked about the second one, but this far he's refused because it means that he would have to forego masturbation for a few weeks, tops.

I also said something to him similar to what your XW said, about the suggestion making me feel like he was trying to pump me out, and it made me feel devalued.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Been texting her... and is this just my eight month craziness talking... or do we actually have a sh-tload in common? It's fking scary, I can't strike the jackpot at first go.
> 
> Or can I? >.< This is insanity!


It's ok to be a little excited, but don't get ahead of yourself 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Well, I'll say this... I've definitely been challenging his way of thinking the entire time we've been together.
> 
> I DID give him a lot to think about, though. There was obviously more to the conversation that I posted on here. I told him that if he wants to improve my sexual experience (which pursuing this fantasy supposedly would do, according to him), instead of pushing something that I don't want, he should consider 1) what I actually want sexually, and 2) actually do something about his death grip syndrome. We've talked about the second one, but this far he's refused because it means that he would have to forego masturbation for a few weeks, tops.
> 
> I also said something to him similar to what your XW said, about the suggestion making me feel like he was trying to pump me out, and it made me feel devalued.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I'm sorry you are going through this, but I am glad you are able to communicate your needs so well. If it does end up that you part ways, at least you will know you stood up for yourself and what is important to you. That is an important thing to be able to walk away with.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Well, I'll say this... I've definitely been challenging his way of thinking the entire time we've been together.
> 
> I DID give him a lot to think about, though. There was obviously more to the conversation that I posted on here. I told him that if he wants to improve my sexual experience (which pursuing this fantasy supposedly would do, according to him), instead of pushing something that I don't want, he should consider 1) what I actually want sexually, and 2) actually do something about his death grip syndrome. We've talked about the second one, but this far he's refused because it means that he would have to forego masturbation for a few weeks, tops.
> 
> I also said something to him similar to what your XW said, about the suggestion making me feel like he was trying to pump me out, and it made me feel devalued.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Although many of us won't admit it, or even know it - we men do like to be challenged at times 



FeministInPink said:


> It's ok to be a little excited, but don't get ahead of yourself
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know I know... sooner or later something will come up. A little too good to be true, red flags everywhere.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this, but I am glad you are able to communicate your needs so well. If it does end up that you part ways, at least you will know you stood up for yourself and what is important to you. That is an important thing to be able to walk away with.


It hasn't been easy, communicating my needs. Overcoming FOO conditioning and all, fear of rejection, etc. It creates a lot of anxiety for me to bring these things up and to tell him this stuff. 

It is made a little easier because he is open to me and really listens, and is glad that I will talk to him rather than keep it to myself--his XW refused to talk about things that bothered/upset her, and I know he wants to make sure we keep these lines of communication open, as we've both experienced the fallout from not being able to communicate in our previous marriages.

But it's made more difficult for me by his need to take time to process; if I bring something up, he doesn't respond in the moment, because he needs time to process. Which on one hand is good, because he's really thinking about it and not going into defensive gut-reaction mode, but the time in between can be a real nail-biter for me, because I'm in an emotionally vulnerable state during that in-between time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> It is beneficial to shop around, clearly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yep, I was on line paying some outstanding bills today and just for giggles I logged onto the local hospitals website. They have a list of the cost of their services. Just to use an operating room at the facility the local surgeon uses, cost $5,410 for the first 30 minutes plus $1,712 for every add'l 15 minutes of time. That doesn't even begin to cover the surgeons fee, the anesthesiologist or any other thing they can use to try to squeeze my last dime out of me.
I was also looking at my insurance benefits. I have a $6,500 deductible and pay $550 a month for insurance. The insurance pays NOTHING until I have met my deductible
All so some CEO gets a $10M quarterly bonus.
What a friggin joke. I so hope we get over the "everything is a profit item" mentality and get real about health care in this country.


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## RandomDude

*sigh* Well guys, it was too good to be true. Quite a shocker actually. I'm going to post in the private section due to sensitivity of the issue, and delete the thread after it runs its course. I'm still in shock.


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## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> *sigh* Well guys, it was too good to be true. Quite a shocker actually. I'm going to post in the private section due to sensitivity of the issue, and delete the thread after it runs its course. I'm still in shock.


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> *sigh* Well guys, it was too good to be true. Quite a shocker actually. I'm going to post in the private section due to sensitivity of the issue, and delete the thread after it runs its course. I'm still in shock.


Live and learn, live and learn


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## RandomDude

EDIT: oops


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## RandomDude

Had an interesting discussion with my new date, turned out I wasn't the only one with the idea of the note. I was about to open up a seminar lol. But, she's not stupid, she gets it all the time and more. I'm honestly quite shocked, not surprised sure since she's a stunner, but guys have tried EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRYTHING. 

She simply had a good feeling about me hence she texted me. With that revelation it makes me wonder about all this crap about the game and all that. All this alpha/beta BS and the game and what not. Yet in the end, it still boils down to simple compatibility. Funny really, the whole reality check.


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Had an interesting discussion with my new date, turned out I wasn't the only one with the idea of the note. I was about to open up a seminar lol. But, she's not stupid, she gets it all the time and more. I'm honestly quite shocked, not surprised sure since she's a stunner, but guys have tried EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRYTHING.
> 
> She simply had a good feeling about me hence she texted me. With that revelation it makes me wonder about all this crap about the game and all that. All this alpha/beta BS and the game and what not. Yet in the end, it still boils down to simple compatibility. Funny really, the whole reality check.


There is a reason its called "getting lucky" because that is all most things are, sheer dumb luck. Of course part of benefitting from that luck involves putting yourself in position to take advantage of it in the first place. So regardless, it was your lucky day, enjoy it.


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## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> There is a reason its called "getting lucky" because that is all most things are, sheer dumb luck. Of course part of benefitting from that luck involves putting yourself in position to take advantage of it in the first place. So regardless, it was your lucky day, enjoy it.


More than lucky, this is a 100% click (aside from... you know). We talk about EVERYTHING even the most darkest sh-t and it's just click click click click click, and even though I part of me gets suspicious she responds in our conversations with real confidence, unafraid of her opinions and tells me of her experiences that made her the way she is and everything just makes sense. Zero red flags, nothing picked up intuitively off, the conversations just flow so naturally and her sense of humor! And she's hot as hell! You know I get reminded of people telling me "one day you'll meet someone who will blow your mind away" and I'm like pffft, yeah right, what are the chances of that? The stars have to fking align for that...

... and it did! It actually fking did! It actually happened to me!!! It IS happening to me!!! WTF?!


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> More than lucky, this is a 100% click (aside from... you know). We talk about EVERYTHING even the most darkest sh-t and it's just click click click click click, and even though I part of me gets suspicious she responds in our conversations with real confidence, unafraid of her opinions and tells me of her experiences that made her the way she is and everything just makes sense. Zero red flags, nothing picked up intuitively off, the conversations just flow so naturally and her sense of humor! And she's hot as hell! You know I get reminded of people telling me "one day you'll meet someone who will blow your mind away" and I'm like pffft, yeah right, what are the chances of that? The stars have to fking align for that...
> 
> ... and it did! It actually fking did! It actually happened to me!!! It IS happening to me!!! WTF?!


Cool down! Don't get carried away. Take it one day at a time. etc etc.


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## RandomDude

We're both getting carried away, this is intense. But yes, you're right, must take one day at a time.


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## bkyln309

RandomDude said:


> We're both getting carried away, this is intense. But yes, you're right, must take one day at a time.


AWWW teenage love!


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## RandomDude

Ya I do feel like a teenager lol

Never had such a click I guess


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## FeministInPink

So, RD was right--things seem to be ok with Real Estate and I, so it seems I was worried for nothing.

I think there is a part of me that is always waiting for the other shoe to drop, that is waiting for him to decide to finally reject me and end the relationship. Part of this is because of my history with men (and my FOO issues), but also because RE from the beginning has said that this relationship will eventually end, because in his mind and experience, every woman in his life has left/deserted him at some point... which is kind of how I feel about men in my life.

Which makes me wonder if he wasn't thinking the same thing I was, which is, "Is this the thing she's going to leave me over? Is this the thing that ends our relationship?"

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> So, RD was right--things seem to be ok with Real Estate and I, so it seems I was worried for nothing.
> 
> I think there is a part of me that is always waiting for the other shoe to drop, that is waiting for him to decide to finally reject me and end the relationship. Part of this is because of my history with men (and my FOO issues), but also because RE from the beginning has said that this relationship will eventually end, because in his mind and experience, every woman in his life has left/deserted him at some point... which is kind of how I feel about men in my life.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if he wasn't thinking the same thing I was, which is, "Is this the thing she's going to leave me over? Is this the thing that ends our relationship?"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yay!

Besides, he just doesn't seem THAT stupid lol


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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> So, RD was right--things seem to be ok with Real Estate and I, so it seems I was worried for nothing.
> 
> I think there is a part of me that is always waiting for the other shoe to drop, that is waiting for him to decide to finally reject me and end the relationship. Part of this is because of my history with men (and my FOO issues), but also because RE from the beginning has said that this relationship will eventually end, because in his mind and experience, every woman in his life has left/deserted him at some point... which is kind of how I feel about men in my life.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if he wasn't thinking the same thing I was, which is, "Is this the thing she's going to leave me over? Is this the thing that ends our relationship?"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



I am glad that you and Real Estate are still doing well. These are just bumps in the road.


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## RandomDude

Trying to get back in serious shape, that's the problem with dating 9s or 10s, every guy is hitting on them. Bah!






Motivation music! Got a new set of weights too! ^_^


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Yay!
> 
> Besides, he just doesn't seem THAT stupid lol


Ha ha, yeah. My friend (the one who is psychic) has said on a multiple occasions that he's not stupid, that he recognizes my value and realizes it would be foolish to let me go, and knows that he better not mess things up with me, because he's not going to find another woman like me.

I have to remind myself of that sometimes. It's easy to forget... I'm accustomed to men NOT valuing me and not treating me well, so I just assume I will be discarded at some point. It's hard to shake that with Real Estate, but that's my issue, not his.



bkyln309 said:


> I am glad that you and Real Estate are still doing well. These are just bumps in the road.


I'm sure you're right. I just don't know, because this is the only LTR I've been in, other than my XH. And my XH and I never had any bumps--which should have been a sign, right? So I have a hard time telling the difference between a bump and a complete derailment.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I'm sure you're right. I just don't know, because this is the only LTR I've been in, other than my XH. *And my XH and I never had any bumps--which should have been a sign, right?* So I have a hard time telling the difference between a bump and a complete derailment.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Maybe start looking at the bumps more positively. Sure, it can always swing the other way, but bumps is also how people learn about each other, their boundaries, what makes them who they are.

Each of these bumps offer opportunities, to make the decision to leave, or to stay and grow together.

Perhaps having none of these bumps, as you said, was a sign, as the opportunity did not present itself, and hence, people just grew apart.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Maybe start looking at the bumps more positively. Sure, it can always swing the other way, but bumps is also how people learn about each other, their boundaries, what makes them who they are.
> 
> Each of these bumps offer opportunities, to make the decision to leave, or to stay and grow together.
> 
> Perhaps having none of these bumps, as you said, was a sign, as the opportunity did not present itself, and hence, people just grew apart.


In my experience with Real Estate thus far, we both tend to learn from these bumps and grow together... each bump brings us closer together, rather than pushing us apart.

My psychic friend K says that these are growing pains in our relationship, as we are learning how to be with each other and taking down our defenses. Which is hard for both of us, and we try to fight against it, because we've both been hurt so much before, and this causes the bumps. But ultimately we eventually stop fighting, because being together is more important.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> In my experience with Real Estate thus far, we both tend to learn from these bumps and grow together... each bump brings us closer together, rather than pushing us apart.
> 
> My psychic friend K says that these are growing pains in our relationship, as we are learning how to be with each other and taking down our defenses. Which is hard for both of us, and we try to fight against it, because we've both been hurt so much before, and this causes the bumps. But ultimately we eventually stop fighting, because being together is more important.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Aye, and there were quite a few hard bumps too. All been resolved 

Reminds that I forgot to mention one detail however - ex-wife and I had our bumps but we took neither of the options, we didn't leave, we didn't grow together, we became toxic harboring resentment. 

So another way to grow apart I guess. In the end I think that's how relationships just fail - when in the end people just grow apart.


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## Ynot

Ynot said:


> On a completely unrelated topic, I just scheduled surgery to repair an inguinal hernia that has been bothering me for a few years. I tried to go the traditional route of going to my PCP for a referral to a specialist. No one could given me any clue as to how much it was going to cost me. And seeing how badly they tried to rape me for just an office visit, I figured it would exceed my deductible and then some.
> I asked him about a vasectomy and he said we would need to get another surgeon in but it would require co-ordinating schedules and would cost even more money.
> I checked around for alternatives and found a general surgeon who does the hernia procedure for a flat rate of less than $2000. He will also do a vasectomy for an additional $450. So for less than half of my deductible, I will have both procedures done at one time and I will take a short vacation where I am having it done.
> In the meantime, I am just laying low and casually pursuing life.


I am back from my surgery. Everything went right as planned. This place is like a machine - in and out. But I was treated great at every point of contact. If anybody needs hernia surgery feel free to PM me I will gladly recommend this place.
My hernia was repaired with a mesh insert. I have an 1.5 inch incision on my left about 2 inches above my testicle. From there down, the whole area is swollen and hurts like an SOB. They did my vasectomy on the left thru that incision. On the right I have a small incision on my testicle. My testicles are turning blue from the bruising, but that is expected.
I have a prescription for oxycodone and I am wearing a support. My hernia incision hurts a heck of a lot more than my balls do. So far so good.


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> I am back from my surgery. Everything went right as planned. This place is like a machine - in and out. But I was treated great at every point of contact. If anybody needs hernia surgery feel free to PM me I will gladly recommend this place.
> My hernia was repaired with a mesh insert. I have an 1.5 inch incision on my left about 2 inches above my testicle. From there down, the whole area is swollen and hurts like an SOB. They did my vasectomy on the left thru that incision. On the right I have a small incision on my testicle. My testicles are turning blue from the bruising, but that is expected.
> I have a prescription for oxycodone and I am wearing a support. My hernia incision hurts a heck of a lot more than my balls do. So far so good.


Glad to hear it, I hope I'll never have to have stuff piercing into my ballsacs but damn lol


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Glad to hear it, I hope I'll never have to have stuff piercing into my ballsacs but damn lol


Honestly my balls are not the issue. The upper incision and constipation is far worse.
If you are done having kids, I recommend you do it. This way no one can ever come back a year down the road with a story that begins "remember that night when...?"


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## RandomDude

EDIT: Double post


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> Honestly my balls are not the issue. The upper incision and constipation is far worse.
> If you are done having kids, I recommend you do it. This way no one can ever come back a year down the road with a story that begins "remember that night when...?"


Heh well I thought I was done, but recent events... I dunno, maybe not done yet


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Heh well I thought I was done, but recent events... I dunno, maybe not done yet


I am few years older than you are. And I can tell you without a doubt that I absotively, posilutely do not ever want another baby in my life as a son or daughter. I would be pushing 80 before they even made it thru college. So it was a no brainer for me.
I am not looking for some young honey at this point, but I have met a few woman who are still fertile and they do not want children either at this point. In at least half the women I have been with are still fertile. Several told me they liked it (sex) here, there, anywhere and everywhere. But needing condom made that somewhat of a challenge. And it seldom worked out like that.


----------



## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> I am few years older than you are. And I can tell you without a doubt that I absotively, posilutely do not ever want another baby in my life as a son or daughter. I would be pushing 80 before they even made it thru college. So it was a no brainer for me.
> I am not looking for some young honey at this point, but I have met a few woman who are still fertile and they do not want children either at this point. In at least half the women I have been with are still fertile. Several told me they liked it (sex) here, there, anywhere and everywhere. But needing condom made that somewhat of a challenge. And it seldom worked out like that.


Fair enough, and fair call.

I guess for me I just stick to my pull-out game at my age but hey, still a calculated risk unlike vasectomy.


----------



## Ynot

On another note. I visited the Manassas National Battlefield while I was out there. First and second battles of Bull Run. The whole park was perhaps 3 miles by 6 miles. Pretty amazing to imagine the tens of thousands of troops, and the thousands of casualities in this small space. The whole eastern theatre of the civil war is a pretty compact space. One could easily drive most of it in a day. To think of the weeks and months it took to move an army from point A to point B back then is mindboggling.


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## RandomDude

You guys had such great songs during that war!






"And we'll all feel GAY when Johnny comes marching home"

Always wondered how GAY went from "happy" to homosexual.


----------



## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> I am few years older than you are. And I can tell you without a doubt that I absotively, posilutely do not ever want another baby in my life as a son or daughter. I would be pushing 80 before they even made it thru college. So it was a no brainer for me.
> I am not looking for some young honey at this point, but I have met a few woman who are still fertile and they do not want children either at this point. In at least half the women I have been with are still fertile. Several told me they liked it (sex) here, there, anywhere and everywhere. But needing condom made that somewhat of a challenge. And it seldom worked out like that.


That's why I love menopause ... means the playground is safe from getting knocked up, women are lucky that way and no surgery required. 

Hope you heal up quickly!


----------



## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> That's why I love menopause ... means the playground is safe from getting knocked up, women are lucky that way and no surgery required.
> 
> Hope you heal up quickly!


Thanks, but I still meet a few that aren't quite there yet. So I would rather be safe than sorry. Pain is already fading, but now the bruising is coming on. Not very appealing


----------



## bkyln309

Red Sonja said:


> That's why I love menopause ... means the playground is safe from getting knocked up, women are lucky that way and no surgery required.
> 
> Hope you heal up quickly!


Cant wait for that day!! Hopefully in the next year or two. My baby making days are long over. No more kids. Shop is closed. A man with a V is the best!


----------



## ReformedHubby

I take it this thread is where you go if you want to vent about the cons of being single. I guess everyone's situation is different. My experience in dating has made me really appreciate what I had in my marriage. I certainly have no problems finding dates. I have met people online or even out and about on my own. My problem is I just can't seem to find anyone "normal". My ex-girlfriend keyed my car badly two weeks ago, and our breakup was mutual! I had to block her because of all the venom she sends my way. What's that all about? I had a lunch date with a woman on the rebound, who I thought for sure would be normal. she is a C-level exec for one of my competitors. She invited me back to her place and even though I told her I thought we should wait, she insisted we be intimate anyway because she said it had been a while for her. So we did. But then she got weird and said I am not making her a priority in my life. Literally only three days afterwards. I saw that as a red flag and started keeping my distance. She has pretty much been stalking me ever since, and saying mean things. I have blocked her on more than one number.

The woman I am most serious about and am spending the most time with is awesome in every way except one. Everything was perfect until we were intimate...we get along really well.....but....I am pretty sure we are NOT sexually compatible. She just got out of a sexless marriage, with a very religious guy that just wasn't interested, and even though she is in her mid thirties she wants to experience it all in a short amount of time apparently, she was with him since she was nineteen. She actually asked for something on the first date that surprised me, and being honest I am not into that all. Been seeing her about three weeks and its clear that a lot of what she wants me to do to her is outside my comfort level. She escalates when I try to meet her halfway, so it looks like there isn't any long term relationship possibilities there either. I am not trying to be celibate, so I guess I will just treat this phase of my life as an adventure and just roll with it. Been thinking I might fare better if a I met a woman that wanted to wait a bit before hopping in the sack, but that appears to be not how things work these days.


----------



## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> I take it this thread is where you go if you want to vent about the cons of being single. I guess everyone's situation is different. My experience in dating has made me really appreciate what I had in my marriage. I certainly have no problems finding dates. I have met people online or even out and about on my own. My problem is I just can't seem to find anyone "normal". My ex-girlfriend keyed my car badly two weeks ago, and our breakup was mutual! I had to block her because of all the venom she sends my way. What's that all about? I had a lunch date with a woman on the rebound, who I thought for sure would be normal. she is a C-level exec for one of my competitors. She invited me back to her place and even though I told her I thought we should wait, she insisted we be intimate anyway because she said it had been a while for her. So we did. But then she got weird and said I am not making her a priority in my life. Literally only three days afterwards. I saw that as a red flag and started keeping my distance. She has pretty much been stalking me ever since, and saying mean things. I have blocked her on more than one number.
> 
> The woman I am most serious about and am spending the most time with is awesome in every way except one. Everything was perfect until we were intimate...we get along really well.....but....I am pretty sure we are NOT sexually compatible. She just got out of a sexless marriage, with a very religious guy that just wasn't interested, and even though she is in her mid thirties she wants to experience it all in a short amount of time apparently, she was with him since she was nineteen. She actually asked for something on the first date that surprised me, and being honest I am not into that all. Been seeing her about three weeks and its clear that a lot of what she wants me to do to her is outside my comfort level. She escalates when I try to meet her halfway, so it looks like there isn't any long term relationship possibilities there either. I am not trying to be celibate, so I guess I will just treat this phase of my life as an adventure and just roll with it. Been thinking I might fare better if a I met a woman that wanted to wait a bit before hopping in the sack, but that appears to be not how things work these days.


This thread was not intended to be a thread to vent, but rather a thread to discuss issues we have all had since becoming single again. Venting is fine though, even if the thread was not intended for that.

Your experience is not really any different than that of many others or even of your own past. The difference is that now you are aware. Rather than take the red flags as negatives, instead look at them as positives, because these are things you probably never even noticed before.

At this point in our lives, we have all been around the block a time or two. We all have baggage (usually those who claim to have none are the ones who have the most). So what you have experienced is totally normal. As I said, you just didn't recognize the red flags as red flags like you do now, because you have experienced the pain that ignoring them inflicts.

Roll with the punches, understand that the world will tend to your needs in its own time. All you have to do is be available when that happens. Do not jump into things you are not comfortable with, (although you need to question whether that discomfort comes from knowing or not knowing why - because it matters). Otherwise enjoy the adventure. There is no going back, so you might as well move forward.

Appreciating certain things about your marriage is also a step in the right direction. You got married for a reason after all. I am sure there were good times as well as bad. But you did get divorced as well, the reasons for which are also important to keep in mind. As I said there is no going back. Even if you reconciled with your ex, it would still be under the cloud of your pasts.


----------



## minimalME

ReformedHubby said:


> ...and our breakup was mutual!


Obviously not.


----------



## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> Cant wait for that day!! Hopefully in the next year or two. My baby making days are long over. No more kids. Shop is closed. A man with a V is the best!


I have met women who have told me "this is for recreation and not for procreation anymore" pointing to their groins. 
I am sure my dad never expected to be raising a child 20 years after my mother passed. But there he was. It was sort of sad when teachers and other parents would say how nice it was for her grandfather to be so involved in her life.


----------



## ReformedHubby

minimalME said:


> Obviously not.


Ha, ha...yeah..I kind of figured that when I saw my car. I honestly would not have even thought it was her if it wasn't for the angry after midnight text messages that I woke up to following morning, followed by seeing my car all messed up. Well...that....and she is on video :rofl:

I am noticing a theme here though. Both of the woman that are upset with me seem to be upset that I didn't fight for them. When they mentioned that they had an issue with something instead of changing I just opted to use it as an out instead. Maybe I am handling things in a way that could bring out the worst?


----------



## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> Ha, ha...yeah..I kind of figured that when I saw my car. I honestly would not have even thought it was her if it wasn't for the angry after midnight text messages that I woke up to following morning, followed by seeing my car all messed up. Well...that....and she is on video :rofl:
> 
> I am noticing a theme though. Both of the woman that are upset with me seem to be upset that I didn't fight for them. When they mentioned that they had an issue with something instead of changing I just opted to use it as an out instead. Maybe I am handling things in a way that could bring out the worst?


I am noticing a theme as well. You are internalizing the short comings of others and trying to rationalize them away. The reality is that there are all kinds of crazies out there. But as I said, it is just that now you have the ability to recognize some of them that you didn't have before.
Those two women - they have issues. If they cannot accept that you are not compatible with them, then that is their issue, not yours. Do not make the mistake of assuming you are to blame. The only person in this world that you are responsible for and can control is you. Whatever some one else's reaction is, is on them.
The only thing you owe anybody is honesty. If someone cannot accept honesty that is their problem, not yours.


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## Bananapeel

Not fighting for women will either drive them away or make them more into you, and there's no way to know what's going to happen ahead of time. There are usually some signs you can pick up on early that will help predict their behavior such as how they talk about their exes and whether they seem independent and OK with being single or jump from relationship to relationship. Nothing wrong with dating either type as long as you're driving an old beater car that doesn't mind a good keying! Or, if you drive a new car just make sure to park it in a locked garage...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

If it's your woman, always fight for her and protect her. And when she's not your woman, fight only if you choose to, knowing in advance it could go either way for you. Another no brainer.


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## Ynot

gowithuhtred said:


> If it's your woman, always fight for her and protect her. And when she's not your woman, fight only if you choose to, knowing in advance it could go either way for you. Another no brainer.


This is such universally bad advice that I feel compelled to respond. Even if it is "your" woman, you fight for what you believe in. No one should have your unconditional approval, not even "your" woman. My ex started all kinds of petty stupid battles. At first I followed the advice given here. Now I realize that I was fighting battles I did not believe in and it made me uncomfortable and unhappy as I had to act against my own self interests.
Fight for what you believe in. If "your" woman happens to believe in the same things, then great. If not too bad. Blindly fighting for "her" is one aspect of the weakness we often hear women lament about as they move on. 
Fight for your principles and not for someone else.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

First, you have to know "you didn't marry a stupid battles woman" (your words), yes don't unconditionally fight for a woman if she's not your wife....in my case if there's something she can't handle, like another stupid man....the fights on.

To date I'll confront someone paying over zealous attention to my wife. That usually calms things down right quick. Im 6"4 189lbs. Used to be 225, but hey I've lost some weight on purpose. Durn cholesterol. 

We don't hang around heavy drinkers, being more settled at our age is better. Drinking causes stupid arguments obviously. 

But in my example it's assumed the conflaguration isn't a childish issue. 😊 give me a little credit here.....


----------



## Ynot

gowithuhtred said:


> First, you have to know "you didn't marry a stupid battles woman" (your words), yes don't unconditionally fight for a woman if she's not your wife....in my case if there's something she can't handle, like another stupid man....the fights on.
> 
> To date I'll confront someone paying over zealous attention to my wife. That usually calms things down right quick. Im 6"4 189lbs. Used to be 225, but hey I've lost some weight on purpose. Durn cholesterol.
> 
> We don't hang around heavy drinkers, being more settled at our age is better. Drinking causes stupid arguments obviously.
> 
> But in my example it's assumed the conflaguration isn't a childish issue. &#55357;&#56842; give me a little credit here.....


I normally would give you the benefit of the doubt, except for the fact that this a post divorce thread, in which many of us (men and women) have been burned before. The whole "happy wife, happy life" thing comes to mind. It is another one of the overwhelmingly stupid pieces of advise one might see here on TAM usually from someone who has yet to be burned by it.

As to the "stupid battles woman", it isn't just women, it isn't just battles and it isn't just about stupidity. It is about being comfortable with what you are defending. I have my own principles that I live by. As does everyone else. If someone else wants to fight a battle over something they believe in, they had better be willing to go to war on their own and not rely on me or my support (unless I agree). Having said that NO ONE is 1005 in agreement with anyone else. Therefore, they should not assume they can count on your support (ie fighting for them) when they are not in agreement with you. Saying you should ALWAYS fight for them is just saying you should give your SO a blank check to rule over you.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Ynot said:


> This is such universally bad advice that I feel compelled to respond. Even if it is "your" woman, you fight for what you believe in. No one should have your unconditional approval, not even "your" woman. My ex started all kinds of petty stupid battles. At first I followed the advice given here. Now I realize that I was fighting battles I did not believe in and it made me uncomfortable and unhappy as I had to act against my own self interests.
> Fight for what you believe in. If "your" woman happens to believe in the same things, then great. If not too bad. Blindly fighting for "her" is one aspect of the weakness we often hear women lament about as they move on.
> Fight for your principles and not for someone else.


Ha, ha...yeah...When I was dating my ex girlfriend her we would get into little spats. And one day she showed me this quote supposedly from Bob Marley:

* “If she's amazing, she won't be easy. If she's easy, she won't be amazing. If she's worth it, you wont give up. If you give up, you're not worthy. ... Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.”*

The fact that that particular quote resonated with her so much is the reason why we would never have worked. She literally never apologized for poor behavior, after a while, no matter how hot I thought she was, I was happy to walk away. I would rather have a less hot companion that isn't so difficult to get along with. But as fate would have it, the woman I am seeing now is just as attractive, probably more so, but a little too kinky for me. I guess I'll just keep going until we find the one again, or I won't....doesn't matter I suppose.


----------



## Bananapeel

ReformedHubby said:


> Ha, ha...yeah...When I was dating my ex girlfriend her we would get into little spats. And one day she showed me this quote supposedly from Bob Marley:
> 
> * “If she's amazing, she won't be easy. If she's easy, she won't be amazing. If she's worth it, you wont give up. If you give up, you're not worthy. ... Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.”*
> 
> The fact that that particular quote resonated with her so much is the reason why we would never have worked. She literally never apologized for poor behavior, after a while, no matter how hot I thought she was, I was happy to walk away. I would rather have a less hot companion that isn't so difficult to get along with. But as fate would have it, the woman I am seeing now is just as attractive, probably more so, but a little too kinky for me. I guess I'll just keep going until we find the one again, or I won't....doesn't matter I suppose.


:crazy:


----------



## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> Ha, ha...yeah...When I was dating my ex girlfriend her we would get into little spats. And one day she showed me this quote supposedly from Bob Marley:
> 
> * “If she's amazing, she won't be easy. If she's easy, she won't be amazing. If she's worth it, you wont give up. If you give up, you're not worthy. ... Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.”*
> 
> The fact that that particular quote resonated with her so much is the reason why we would never have worked. She literally never apologized for poor behavior, after a while, no matter how hot I thought she was, I was happy to walk away. I would rather have a less hot companion that isn't so difficult to get along with. But as fate would have it, the woman I am seeing now is just as attractive, probably more so, but a little too kinky for me. I guess I'll just keep going until we find the one again, or I won't....doesn't matter I suppose.


Give up the idea of the ONE. It is a myth that does not exist. It is the basis of scarcity thinking and will only lead to disappointment. The reality is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of people out there who can and will satisfy your needs, whatever they may be. Stop thinking in terms of scarcity and start thinking in terms of abundance. The universe is able to meet every need you have, if you are willing to accept its gifts. The problem for most people is that they never see that because they are focused on the One. the pain you felt or may be feeling is a direct result of your refusal to accept the gifts. 
In my case, the world was telling me my ex wasn't right for me, but like most people, I chose to fight for us, for her, because she was the ONE. I felt that way for years afterwards, even after I began to realize just how limiting those thoughts had been. I was willing to settle for less just to have her. 
Now I realize that I only have to accept what I want to accept. If someone doesn't or won't live up to my standards than so be it. And the reverse holds true as well. If I can't or won't live up to someone else's standards then we are both better off without each other (at least I am - they may go right on down the path looking for the One who never existed in the first place and will usually end up disappointed)


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> :crazy:


I agree, but sadly some (many?) women have adopted this as another truism to be adhered to. It is what leads to the entitlement mentality that some have. 
I am personally not entitled to anything. I am worthy of a lot however. But not entitled to anything.


----------



## Bananapeel

I know a lot of women like that and men as well that share that gynocentric attitude. But hey, if it works for them then it's fine by me. I just personally won't take part in it because I learned long ago that relationships work much better for my personality type to function on a more even level and not have a power imbalance.

Also my recent experience has been that western European women are much less likely to have that entitled attitude than American women. I've gone out with two recently and it is quite refreshing compared to the American women I've dated.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ynot said:


> I normally would give you the benefit of the doubt, except for the fact that this a post divorce thread, in which many of us (men and women) have been burned before. The whole "happy wife, happy life" thing comes to mind. It is another one of the overwhelmingly stupid pieces of advise one might see here on TAM usually from someone who has yet to be burned by it.
> 
> As to the "stupid battles woman", it isn't just women, it isn't just battles and it isn't just about stupidity. It is about being comfortable with what you are defending. I have my own principles that I live by. As does everyone else. If someone else wants to fight a battle over something they believe in, they had better be willing to go to war on their own and not rely on me or my support (unless I agree). Having said that NO ONE is 1005 in agreement with anyone else. Therefore, they should not assume they can count on your support (ie fighting for them) when they are not in agreement with you. Saying you should ALWAYS fight for them is just saying you should give your SO a blank check to rule over you.


I think we're saying the same thing. Don't fight for stupid reasons or for something or someone you don't believe in. But there are good friends a person knows that if in a scuffle it's a good reason and it's ok to help if unequal sides.. But no, I don't condone fighting. I get the feeling you believe I'd go at the drop of a hat. My younger days it was more likely, but infrequently and never over the top. I never started a fight in my life. But we were taught not to wait, if it was going to be unavoidable. 

PS on me not having gone through a divorce, thank goodness I've never had a divorce discussion myself, my exposure to the widely varying circumstances of divorces and multiple divorces re immediate family at young age, again at adolescence, again as a teenager, then as older; close friends, more family divorcing, has been great. I could give 15 years of divorce advice sht at 20yrs old, and how to deal with physical abuse. So you can kiss my a$$ really.

I've been married 33yrs. Do you really think we've never had knock down drag outs? Please.


----------



## Ynot

gowithuhtred said:


> I think we're saying the same thing. Don't fight for stupid reasons or for something or someone you don't believe in. But there are good friends a person knows that if in a scuffle it's a good reason and it's ok to help if unequal sides.. But no, I don't condone fighting. I get the feeling you believe I'd go at the drop of a hat. My younger days it was more likely, but infrequently and never over the top. I never started a fight in my life. But we were taught not to wait, if it was going to be unavoidable.
> 
> PS on me not having gone through a divorce, thank goodness I've never had a divorce discussion myself, my exposure to the widely varying circumstances of divorces and multiple divorces re immediate family at young age, again at adolescence, again as a teenager, then as older; close friends, more family divorcing, has been great. I could give 15 years of divorce advice sht at 20yrs old, and how to deal with physical abuse. So you can kiss my a$$ really.
> 
> I've been married 33yrs. Do you really think we've never had knock down drag outs? Please.


Didn't say you haven't but if you want to assume go right ahead. 
And yes you may have experienced divorce from the outside. So did I, but until you have been through it your self, well you really don't know what you don't know, as I found out myself. Another thing is that life is very different now than it was when you were young, so whatever you experienced than may or may not apply now.
As far as taking a side because a buddy decides to pop off, again that is on them. I fight for my principles and no one else's. Personally I do not know jack squat about you. So I don't know if you would or wouldn't fight at the drop of a hat. I really do not care either.
You posted that if she was your woman you should ALWAYS fight for her and protect her. I disagreed. I told you my reasons, if you don't like them, too bad. If you take offense to them, too bad. Have a nice day.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

And you.
Truly I mean no continuing offence. I do think we may disagree on a couple of things but that's ok with me at least.
I'll now contain my "would I fight and for what" comment on the only thing you perceive I have personal experience or ability to have any comment in, would I fight for and to protect my wife; at the drop of a hat of required. And have when quite a bit younger, in Texas. Some of that was fun. It's like you live under a rock if you don't believe sometimes things work out how they work out when both spouses are out and active out in the world, hot days and hot nights. Before any Texas questions, yes this was in Texas. 

But my other comments still apply.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

@Ynot, 

This is a quote from your disagreeing with me: 

"You posted that if she was your woman you should ALWAYS fight for her and protect her. I disagreed. I told you my reasons, if you don't like them, too bad. If you take offense to them, too bad. Have a nice day."

Here's my question to you, @Ynot...do you mean there's any circumstance a man shouldn't fight for his wife? That condition doesn't exist.


----------



## Ynot

gowithuhtred said:


> @Ynot,
> 
> This is a quote from your disagreeing with me:
> 
> "You posted that if she was your woman you should ALWAYS fight for her and protect her. I disagreed. I told you my reasons, if you don't like them, too bad. If you take offense to them, too bad. Have a nice day."
> 
> Here's my question to you, @Ynot...do you mean there's any circumstance a man shouldn't fight for his wife? That condition doesn't exist.


That condition does exist - when she is wrong. Always means everytime, not when some condition allows you to opt out.
Furthermore, the person you were originally responding to was not talking about a physical altercation, but was talking about fighting for a relationship or time with a woman he was not comfortable with. When a woman expects you to fight for her or a relationship as your default, then she has very little concern about making sure whatever crap she might be playing might make you uncomfortable. Those are the very type of women who will react as the OP had stated.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

OK.
I have dated such women long ago and your comments are agreeable.
I do treat my wife as my equal in our relationship and there wouldn't be that game on. If there was an issue it would be a real issue.


----------



## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> I know a lot of women like that and men as well that share that gynocentric attitude. But hey, if it works for them then it's fine by me. I just personally won't take part in it because I learned long ago that relationships work much better for my personality type to function on a more even level and not have a power imbalance.
> *
> Also my recent experience has been that western European women are much less likely to have that entitled attitude than American women. I've gone out with two recently and it is quite refreshing compared to the American women I've dated*.


Heh not just American woman. Personally I think western society these days has the wrong idea of what makes a strong woman. For many a strong woman is a "bitter entitled man-hating b---h!" :rofl:

Yet at the same time it's almost like a natural occurence due to the lack of respect that men in western society look at women. I don't even get how they look down on me for having FWBs, it was always honest and I treat my partners with respect - as long as they earn it, otherwise I don't even bother with anything with them. Yet others they lie and play games with women to get laid, take advantage of them when they are under the influence of alcohol, cheat on their wives because it's become socially acceptable, etc etc. And they judge me. Pffft.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I guess I’ll put myself into the TAM dating thread. Hey, fellow TAM daters!!

I’ve had a really fun time dating after my divorce 2 years ago. At first I just dated casually because my heart wasn’t ready to get involved. Then after about 6 months I met a guy I really clicked with and we had an on again off again thing for over a year. We did fall in love, but there were issues in our relationship that made it a dead end for me so I ended it in January.

It’s been a whirlwind of online dating since then, mostly first dates that didn’t go anywhere but it was still fun meeting different people. Had one who was an absolute hunk (literally built like The Rock) and a few dates with him but for some reason I never got more into him. Sometimes there is amazing chemistry but it doesn’t develop past the desire to boink each other. That’s not enough for me.

As is normal for me, I kept getting asked out by much younger men in the online apps. Normally I tell them that I appreciate their offer and loved their pictures but that I’m more interested in people my own age. 

A couple of weeks ago, another young one hit me up on the app. I gave him my usual speech, but he came back with enough maturity and class that I decided he was worth meeting at least.

Met him and immediately decided to see him again to see where it goes.

He is 14 years younger than me, yet I don’t think anyone seeing us on a date would think there was any age difference at all. We both appear about 40. His demeanor and intelligence make him seem older than he is. He is a scientist working on a fellowship at our medical university. He is not from the US and has a lovely accent. He is black, I am white. He is not looking for a wife or kids, he is focused on his career and after his fellowship will be pursuing a very prestigious career path. 

I have a full life and am glad to meet someone who is not wanting to spend all of our time together. When we see each other it’s fantastic. The rest of the week we stay in touch just enough but not too much.

We had the exclusivity talk and established what I would need to be intimate. Then we were, and it was awesome. 

So far, so good! Really shocked that we are such a great fit given the age difference. Though he doesn’t see it that way because to him the age difference is irrelevant.

Will post updates. 🙂


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> So far, so good! Really shocked that we are such a great fit given the age difference. Though he doesn’t see it that way because to him the age difference is irrelevant.
> 
> Will post updates. 🙂


The issue in those other threads really had nothing to do with the age difference for many of us. I think there were a few but even then it wasn't the age difference as much as it was how young one of them were. Many felt that the GF might not be mature enough, but given the way that thread went sideways I would say those fears were placed on the wrong side of the equation.
Anyways, good for you. I hope it works out to whatever end you have in mind. Enjoy the moment and just let your life flow.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far, so good! Really shocked that we are such a great fit given the age difference. Though he doesn’t see it that way because to him the age difference is irrelevant.
> 
> Will post updates. 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> The issue in those other threads really had nothing to do with the age difference for many of us. I think there were a few but even then it wasn't the age difference as much as it was how young one of them were. Many felt that the GF might not be mature enough, but given the way that thread went sideways I would say those fears were placed on the wrong side of the equation.
> Anyways, good for you. I hope it works out to whatever end you have in mind. Enjoy the moment and just let your life flow.
Click to expand...

I was only referring to my own standards in the part you quoted. Nothing to do with RD’s situation. It’s just been my experience that most men of his age don’t have enough life experience and maturity to interest me.

This one does, and I’m glad I gave him a chance. So far so good! Not really reaching for anything in particular, I just want a fun, smart and attractive guy to spend time with and have a great sex life. Not going any further than that is preferable to me at this time in my life. I have too much else going on to try to make a deeper commitment to someone.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I was only referring to my own standards in the part you quoted. Nothing to do with RD’s situation. It’s just been my experience that most men of his age don’t have enough life experience and maturity to interest me.
> 
> This one does, and I’m glad I gave him a chance. So far so good! Not really reaching for anything in particular, I just want a fun, smart and attractive guy to spend time with and have a great sex life. Not going any further than that is preferable to me at this time in my life. I have too much else going on to try to make a deeper commitment to someone.


Good deal. I wish more people would just enjoy the moment and not put so much pressure on themselves and others.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> He is 14 years younger than me, yet I don’t think anyone seeing us on a date would think there was any age difference at all. We both appear about 40. His demeanor and intelligence make him seem older than he is. He is a scientist working on a fellowship at our medical university. He is not from the US and has a lovely accent. He is black, I am white. He is not looking for a wife or kids, he is focused on his career and after his fellowship will be pursuing a very prestigious career path.


FW, question for you. It had been forever since I dated, my first girlfriend post separation was white. I noticed that people would sometimes give her and me a hard time because of it, or make comments to her about me that were really messed up. I know its 2018, but have you had negative experiences based on your choice of companion? Just curious.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is 14 years younger than me, yet I don’t think anyone seeing us on a date would think there was any age difference at all. We both appear about 40. His demeanor and intelligence make him seem older than he is. He is a scientist working on a fellowship at our medical university. He is not from the US and has a lovely accent. He is black, I am white. He is not looking for a wife or kids, he is focused on his career and after his fellowship will be pursuing a very prestigious career path.
> 
> 
> 
> FW, question for you. It had been forever since I dated, my first girlfriend post separation was white. I noticed that people would sometimes give her and me a hard time because of it, or make comments to her about me that were really messed up. I know its 2018, but have you had negative experiences based on your choice of companion? Just curious.
Click to expand...

No, no one I know personally would say anything weird to me. But we will see going forward if any stranger says anything. If one did I would be pretty unfriendly to them in response.

Portland is interesting in that there is not a very big black population here (something the black residents are very aware of because it’s so obvious) but it is very colorful here with many other races and ethnicities. In my part of the city which is very liberal, hippie-loving and diverse, there are multi racial couples, friends, and groups of people everywhere. It would be weird for anyone in my area to say anything at all about the black/white thing to us. 

In observing my new guy - will call him P - he comes from a predominantly black country and seems very laid back about it all. A friend of mine who is Asian and married to a black guy and I were talking about this. She said that her H one time said that every time he walks into a restaurant here, he’s suddenly very aware that he’s black. Makes sense, because at any given restaurant he goes to no matter what time, he’s likely to be the only black person in there...again and again and again. Not that he feels threatened, he’s just very aware of it.

P doesn’t seem to notice this or feel quite the same about it. My friend and I speculate that because he grew up where everyone was mostly black he probably never felt that phenomenon in his formative years and has a different vibe about it all now.

We are still getting to know each other and I will find out more about his thoughts on that. Also I don’t know if any of his previous partners were a different color, nor does he know that about me. It’s fun discussing these things with him though so I look forward to those talks. 

I hate to ask what was said to you, yeesh. Were they being rude or nosey?


----------



## FeministInPink

My first BF was Japanese; I'm white. We never experienced any problems, but we were in college, so...

Now, I'm with Real Estate. But my best friend is an African American male, and when we are out together (and this happened a lot more frequently before Real Estate was in the picture), people assumed we were a couple all the time, and we never had any problems or run-ins, but I may just be oblivious to it. We are technically in the south, so I would expect some issues to arise, but nothing ever did. 

The funny this is, my friend would never in a million years consider dating a white woman. He's from the deep South, and that sort of thing runs deep. But he prefers to date black women who are originally from outside the US, either from Africa or the Caribbean.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I hate to ask what was said to you, yeesh. Were they being rude or nosey?


There were all kinds of incidents, but the most blatant was an acquaintance of my girlfriend. Someone she hung out with on occasion. She had told this woman of me and how happy she was, but never told her I was black. So one night when out we run into this woman. My girlfriend introduces us, she seems like a cool person, but I noticed her whispering something to my girlfriend. Next thing I know my girlfriend is upset and wants to leave. So I close our tab and we leave. When walking to my car my girlfriend starts crying, she says her friend whispered in her ear, "He's a ****."


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to ask what was said to you, yeesh. Were they being rude or nosey?
> 
> 
> 
> There were all kinds of incidents, but the most blatant was an acquaintance of my girlfriend. Someone she hung out with on occasion. She had told this woman of me and how happy she was, but never told her I was black. So one night when out we run into this woman. My girlfriend introduces us, she seems like a cool person, but I noticed her whispering something to my girlfriend. Next thing I know my girlfriend is upset and wants to leave. So I close our tab and we leave. When walking to my car my girlfriend starts crying, she says her friend whispered in her ear, "He's a ****."
Click to expand...

What the holy hell? 

No, no one in my circle would speak that way, I’ve never heard anyone in my life use that term! I know some people are underground racists like that, and so I’m sure someone in my life would think things I may not like....but seriously no one would speak them out loud and for the most part my white friends easily see why I’m dating this guy and love that he is black. There’s a whole lotta love here in hippie land, USA. Attitudes like you described are not tolerated at all. To be that way would mean you would be ostracized.


----------



## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> What the holy hell?
> 
> No, no one in my circle would speak that way, I’ve never heard anyone in my life use that term! I know some people are underground racists like that, and so I’m sure someone in my life would think things I may not like....but seriously no one would speak them out loud and for the most part my white friends easily see why I’m dating this guy and love that he is black. There’s a whole lotta love here in hippie land, USA. Attitudes like you described are not tolerated at all. To be that way would mean you would be ostracized.



Yikes! Who the heck thinks like that anymore? 

My ex and I are different races. We lived in NYC for most of our marriage and then Texas and never noticed any type of attention due to our differing skin tones. The only thing we did see is my ex with our kids. Both the kids are light skinned and my ex is not. When the kids were young and they were throwing a tantrum in public, he would take them out to the car to settle down. He would get looks like he was kidnapping our kids as he did not look like their father.


----------



## ReformedHubby

bkyln309 said:


> Yikes! Who the heck thinks like that anymore?


Funny you should say that, I gave her points for creativity, I hadn't actually heard that particular slur in over two decades.


----------



## minimalME

ReformedHubby said:


> Funny you should say that, I gave her points for creativity, I hadn't actually heard that particular slur in over two decades.


I was born and raised in the South, and I've never hear that from anyone. Ever.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Funny you should say that, I gave her points for creativity, I hadn't actually heard that particular slur in over two decades.


I've only heard that word in movies...and typically the movie was making the case that the person using the slur was an ignoramus. 

I have some relatives who live in the deep south who are off the walls racist, Trump lovers, yet also claim to be Christians and love Jesus....ugh. 

I have removed them from my life and refuse to even see them when they are in town. They don't really understand why, but I don't care one way or the other. I wish I could say to them directly "I don't want to see you because you are racist scum" but doing things like that don't end the way you hope they will. You don't get to just say it and then walk away all smug...no, instead you say it and then your insane relatives begin a literal civil war in your family and label you as the turncoat who started it.  

Being that I rarely have to interact with them and they live across the country, thankfully I don't have to be around their weirdness. They are the only ones in my family who are like that, while I've got some very small town red neck type relatives too who are not the brightest stars in the sky and have a lot of ignorance based racism, but they are not the same as those from the deep south, not even close. Thankfully, the biggest majority of my relatives are open, loving, accepting, and tolerant of diversity and want to know more about people, especially those who are different than us in some way. All of my friends are also cool, liberal, some are gay, various ethnic backgrounds, etc. 

Life is so much easier when you don't hate people, I don't get why people do it. Takes too much energy and is so illogical.


----------



## Blondilocks

ReformedHubby said:


> There were all kinds of incidents, but the most blatant was an acquaintance of my girlfriend. Someone she hung out with on occasion. She had told this woman of me and how happy she was, but never told her I was black. So one night when out we run into this woman. My girlfriend introduces us, she seems like a cool person, but I noticed her whispering something to my girlfriend. Next thing I know my girlfriend is upset and wants to leave. So I close our tab and we leave. When walking to my car my girlfriend starts crying, she says her friend whispered in her ear, "He's a ****."


Unbelievable. On the funny side, did the acquaintance think your girlfriend hadn't noticed you're black? GF could have had all kinds of fun with that.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Blondilocks said:


> Unbelievable. On the funny side, did the acquaintance think your girlfriend hadn't noticed you're black? GF could have had all kinds of fun with that.


Ha, ha...that would have been funny. But...my girlfriend at the time didn't think anything of me being black, which is why she never thought to mention it. She just told all of her friends that she was happy...well...and that I'm hot...


----------



## bkyln309

ReformedHubby said:


> Ha, ha...that would have been funny. But...my girlfriend at the time didn't think anything of me being black, which is why she never thought to mention it. She just told all of her friends that she was happy...well...and that I'm hot...


Being hot trumps alot of things. :grin2:


----------



## Wolf1974

ReformedHubby said:


> There were all kinds of incidents, but the most blatant was an acquaintance of my girlfriend. Someone she hung out with on occasion. She had told this woman of me and how happy she was, but never told her I was black. So one night when out we run into this woman. My girlfriend introduces us, she seems like a cool person, but I noticed her whispering something to my girlfriend. Next thing I know my girlfriend is upset and wants to leave. So I close our tab and we leave. When walking to my car my girlfriend starts crying, she says her friend whispered in her ear, "He's a ****."


That’s crazy!! I live in conservative USA and dated both black and Hispanic women. No one ever said anything like that to me. Unreal. I have on the other hand been “debated”by various GF’s friends over my profession. Those who watch alittle to much CNN and social justice warriors who think they know more about my profession than I do because they “saw it on the whatever”. Unfortunately For them I’m never one back down in the face of stupidity and ignorance lol.


----------



## Ynot

On a different tangent, my hernia/vasectomy surgery is healing nicely. I actually played 18 holes of golf today. I can still feel the edge of the mesh. It feels like I have sand in my underwear. But other than that I am just tired. Too much time off from life activities while I waited for surgery and then to heal. I am excited to get back to living again.


----------



## Bananapeel

Hey Guys, I had two major accomplishments over the weekend that I thought I'd share. I don't know if anyone remembers but about six months ago @TooNice was talking about running a half marathon and I was inspired to try one myself. Well, I completed it in 2:01, which I think is a decent time for my first one especially considering I am not much of a runner. The second accomplishment was afterwards I stopped off at Sam's club with my kids and at the food court I let out a burp so loud that a guy from the checkout stand down at the end gave me a thumbs up and said it sounded like that scene from Elf! Anyway, I've got two great memories from yesterday to cherish.


----------



## TooNice

Bananapeel said:


> Hey Guys, I had two major accomplishments over the weekend that I thought I'd share. I don't know if anyone remembers but about six months ago @TooNice was talking about running a half marathon and I was inspired to try one myself. Well, I completed it in 2:01, which I think is a decent time for my first one especially considering I am not much of a runner. The second accomplishment was afterwards I stopped off at Sam's club with my kids and at the food court I let out a burp so loud that a guy from the checkout stand down at the end gave me a thumbs up and said it sounded like that scene from Elf! Anyway, I've got two great memories from yesterday to cherish.


Congratulations, @Bananapeel! And um... 2:01???? Seriously??? I'd say calling that a "decent time" as a first half is a bit of an understatement. 

Well done!


----------



## TooNice

I posted back in March about the runner guy that I started seeing. Since I popped in here, thought I would mention that he's still in the picture. We've been running together a good deal more as the weather has been turning nice, and he's met a lot of the friends I have in my run circle. Our schedule is dependent on when he has his kids, but it's actually sort of nice. One weekend, we do lots of things together, and the next is mine to do what I like with. And we have a few days mingled into the week where we can meet for dinner or a bike ride or run. We even talked a little this weekend about him meeting my son. With the way his schedule is, it's pretty easy for me to not meet his kids, and I don't need to. But my son will be living with me after college for a bit, and it makes sense that they should meet fairly soon. We spend a fair amount of time together when both of our schedules permit, and I think it will be best for them to just meet. And I'm not weirded out by it, which is nice. 

I'm continuing to focus on taking care of myself physically, too. I have four more half marathons I am signed up for this summer (my first of the year was last month). I like the plan I have laid out for myself, and I'm excited to see how I feel when the summer comes to a close. I still feel unsettled about things in my life such as my job and whether I should just pick up and find an opportunity out of state - that's a little tougher to tackle. I am riding along with what life brings now, and trying not to stress about that. I need to get my son home and support him in the next stage of his life. At the same time, if an opportunity presents itself, I am ready for it. I think. 

In the meantime, I am just enjoying the chance to spend time with a nice guy, doing things we both like to do.


----------



## FeministInPink

Good news all around from my peeps here on the Singles thread! Glad to hear the updates, @Bananapeel, @TooNice, and @Ynot.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Ynot

Past lovers. For some reason I have spent time with several this week. First on Tuesday spent some time with an old FWB. Then yesterday a text from another asking if I can help her finish her taxes. And just today, lunch with the last one. Nothing happened with any of them. The last one I wouldn't object to giving it another go, but we still parted as friends. The other ones as well. In the meantime working on a new one. I have a golf date this weekend, so we shall see. In fact the last one put in a good word with the potential one.


----------



## Lifescript

Hi guys, 

It’s been a long time. Have to catch up on the new thread. Hope everyone is doing ok. 

I had a date set up with this girl I’ve gone out with once. This was to be our second date. 

She said was probably not going to be able to meet up this coming Saturday. Then she confirmed she can’t make it. 

We are not exclusive so could be that she’s going out with someone else. She didn’t offer an explanation as to why she can’t go out anymore. 

Should I ask? I don’t want to come off as needed but also feel like since we had made plans Im owed some kind of explanation even if its BS lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> It’s been a long time. Have to catch up on the new thread. Hope everyone is doing ok.
> 
> I had a date set up with this girl I’ve gone out with once. This was to be our second date.
> 
> She said was probably not going to be able to meet up this coming Saturday. Then she confirmed she can’t make it.
> 
> We are not exclusive so could be that she’s going out with someone else. She didn’t offer an explanation as to why she can’t go out anymore.
> 
> Should I ask? I don’t want to come off as needed but also feel like since we had made plans Im owed some kind of explanation even if its BS lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope, don't wait for an explanation. Move on to the next one. If she decides she wants to move forward, let her make the move. There are literally millions of possibilities out there. Do not place all your hopes on the One.


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> Nope, don't wait for an explanation. Move on to the next one. If she decides she wants to move forward, let her make the move. There are literally millions of possibilities out there. Do not place all your hopes on the One.




I know. I’m saying is it not proper etiquette to let the other person know why you can’t make it. I haven’t asked because don’t want to come off weak. 

Moving on.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lifescript said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, don't wait for an explanation. Move on to the next one. If she decides she wants to move forward, let her make the move. There are literally millions of possibilities out there. Do not place all your hopes on the One.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know. I’m saying is it not proper etiquette to let the other person know why you can’t make it. I haven’t asked because don’t want to come off weak.
> 
> Moving on.
Click to expand...

I say don’t ask. Act as if (or actually this might be the case) you are quickly busy with other things in your life. Keep checking out other potential pathways.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> It’s been a long time. Have to catch up on the new thread. Hope everyone is doing ok.
> 
> I had a date set up with this girl I’ve gone out with once. This was to be our second date.
> 
> She said was probably not going to be able to meet up this coming Saturday. Then she confirmed she can’t make it.
> 
> We are not exclusive so could be that she’s going out with someone else. She didn’t offer an explanation as to why she can’t go out anymore.
> 
> Should I ask? I don’t want to come off as needed but also feel like since we had made plans Im owed some kind of explanation even if its BS lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's how you read the situation. Did she cancel and try to reschedule for a different time? If she did then something legitimate probably happened. If there was no attempt to reschedule, she's not interested in you and you should ignore her unless she contacts you first.


----------



## TooNice

Lifescript said:


> I know. I’m saying is it not proper etiquette to let the other person know why you can’t make it. I haven’t asked because don’t want to come off weak.
> 
> Moving on.


I assume men I date are potentially dating other women until we have a discussion about it. I wouldn't ask; I think it's far too early. Even if she does have another date, it may have been set up before your first date happened. Don't worry about it. If you like her and she comes around for date number two, then roll with it and see where it goes.


----------



## Lifescript

Thanks guys. I didn’t ask. Will wait to see if she texts wanting to go out. In the meantime will continue dating other women. Joined OLD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReformedHubby

This seems to be the thread to talk about the good AND the bad of dating. Well...I had a stalker a few months ago. It was a woman I went on one lunch date with. She just couldn't believe I wasn't interested in pursuing things. She called me and texted me from different numbers for weeks. Even put a pic of my you know what all over the web with hashtags because she was upset I didn't want to move forward. 

Eventually it stopped, until this weekend. She messaged me saying we really needed to talk. I didn't respond. Then yesterday she messaged me saying her mother died and she wanted to talk. I still haven't responded. I am just a guy that she had a lunch date with months ago. I feel like she is using her own mother's death to guilt me into responding, and it really creeps me out....


----------



## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> This seems to be the thread to talk about the good AND the bad of dating. Well...I had a stalker a few months ago. It was a woman I went on one lunch date with. She just couldn't believe I wasn't interested in pursuing things. She called me and texted me from different numbers for weeks. Even put a pic of my you know what all over the web with hashtags because she was upset I didn't want to move forward.
> 
> Eventually it stopped, until this weekend. She messaged me saying we really needed to talk. I didn't respond. Then yesterday she messaged me saying her mother died and she wanted to talk. I still haven't responded. I am just a guy that she had a lunch date with months ago. I feel like she is using her own mother's death to guilt me into responding, and it really creeps me out....


I had a similar experience. Except she used the fact that it was the 2nd anniversary of her dog dying. Besides becoming a hermit, what else can you do?


----------



## TooNice

ReformedHubby said:


> This seems to be the thread to talk about the good AND the bad of dating. Well...I had a stalker a few months ago. It was a woman I went on one lunch date with. She just couldn't believe I wasn't interested in pursuing things. She called me and texted me from different numbers for weeks. Even put a pic of my you know what all over the web with hashtags because she was upset I didn't want to move forward.
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually it stopped, until this weekend. She messaged me saying we really needed to talk. I didn't respond. Then yesterday she messaged me saying her mother died and she wanted to talk. I still haven't responded. I am just a guy that she had a lunch date with months ago. I feel like she is using her own mother's death to guilt me into responding, and it really creeps me out....




I am in no way justifying her behavior, but one must wonder how she acquired a pic of your “you know what” to post all of the web after “just one lunch date”...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReformedHubby

TooNice said:


> I am in no way justifying her behavior, but one must wonder how she acquired a pic of your “you know what” to post all of the web after “just one lunch date”...?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well...I try to keep my posts G rated. Long story short I certainly wasn't expecting to get lucky on a lunch date. But it did end up happening. She was the aggressor, I even asked if she was sure because I had zero expectations going into that date. We did sext a bit after that date. But she got really weird. If she called me at work or when I was with my kids she expected me to drop everything and talk to her. I can't do that. She gave me an ultimatum, I told her I can't be what she needs. She flipped out on me for not, "fighting for us". I was like who fights for someone they have only had one date with?!?!?!?!? The whole situation has been somewhat of a nightmare. Really surprised she reached out again. I blocked her on at least four different numbers!!!!


----------



## TooNice

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I try to keep my posts G rated. Long story short I certainly wasn't expecting to get lucky on a lunch date. But it did end up happening. She was the aggressor, I even asked if she was sure because I had zero expectations going into that date. We did sext a bit after that date. But she got really weird. If she called me at work or when I was with my kids she expected me to drop everything and talk to her. I can't do that. She gave me an ultimatum, I told her I can't be what she needs. She flipped out on me for not, "fighting for us". I was like who fights for someone they have only had one date with?!?!?!?!? The whole situation has been somewhat of a nightmare. Really surprised she reached out again. I blocked her on at least four different numbers!!!!


Ahhhh... I understand. Again, I am not justifying her actions - that is still stalker-ish. I am afraid you lose the right to say that you simply had lunch with her, though. Whether she instigated the activities or not, it's a game changer that you went beyond lunch. YOU may have thought it was just one date, but the emotions of taking it further have a strong impact on some people. Clearly, she is one of them. FWIW, I would continue to block her, but please understand and respect that this was not just a simple lunch date.


----------



## ne9907

Hello all,
it has been a while since I posted. I have been well, been seeing a guy for about a year a half. We have had our ups and downs, our ups are amazing, downs are very low.
I am in love with him. We are both learning a lot about each other, I am learning oh so much about myself. 

I knew I had baggage from my marriage, but being with this man has made me realize that I have LOTS of baggage. I have also discovered a lot about myself, I am finding out things about me that make me a better person for me. I am becoming more selfish, saying "no" a lot more often. Doing what I like to do and not what others might expect of me.
In the past, I have been very judgmental of myself, I have wanted to achieve perfection because I thought if I was perfect, then I deserved love.
I am not perfect. I am not judging myself as harshly as before. 
In one word, I am carefree. Or becoming carefree.

Sometimes I feel as if I am finally living my authentic self; I was a woman who always hid herself from the world because she was afraid. I am learning to just let go of my expectations, judgments, fears, and accept myself more. 
Gosh... 
I find it rather strange that this particular relationship is helping me overcome so much of my past insecurities and fears. 
He is not perfect, gosh, he is not even the best or most loving person I have ever met, yet he just is.

I love reading everyone's updates!


----------



## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> Hello all,
> it has been a while since I posted. I have been well, been seeing a guy for about a year a half. We have had our ups and downs, our ups are amazing, downs are very low.
> I am in love with him. We are both learning a lot about each other, I am learning oh so much about myself.
> 
> I knew I had baggage from my marriage, but being with this man has made me realize that I have LOTS of baggage. I have also discovered a lot about myself, I am finding out things about me that make me a better person for me. I am becoming more selfish, saying "no" a lot more often. Doing what I like to do and not what others might expect of me.
> In the past, I have been very judgmental of myself, I have wanted to achieve perfection because I thought if I was perfect, then I deserved love.
> I am not perfect. I am not judging myself as harshly as before.
> In one word, I am carefree. Or becoming carefree.
> 
> Sometimes I feel as if I am finally living my authentic self; I was a woman who always hid herself from the world because she was afraid. I am learning to just let go of my expectations, judgments, fears, and accept myself more.
> Gosh...
> I find it rather strange that this particular relationship is helping me overcome so much of my past insecurities and fears.
> He is not perfect, gosh, he is not even the best or most loving person I have ever met, yet he just is.
> 
> I love reading everyone's updates!


 @ne9907 - it is wonderful to read such a happy update from you. I am thrilled that you are putting yourself first and allowing room for forgiveness and self-love. You deserve nothing less.


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## ReformedHubby

Feeling kind of bummed today. I try not to overshare here but my current dating situation has me a little down. I met someone who checks all the boxes, in fact she is my dream girl if I had a list. She is sweet, super attractive, fun to hang out with, and also really good in bed. She also has a very nurturing personality as well. Its only been two months but we have spent a lot of time together. We look happy when we're together, I know this because strangers walk up to us and tell us so. 

But at this point I feel we simply are not sexually compatible. Over the weekend I asked questions I probably should not have and the answers floored me. I asked because when we "play" rough or I am more aggressive I could tell it excites her a lot. Like a LOT. Well, turns out her last boyfriend was a sadist. He would slap, choke, and degrade her during sex. I asked her if she was into that, she says she did enjoy it. Apparently he never even told her he was a sadist, he just did it to her one day and she said it turned her on so much they just kept doing it. I felt bad because even though she said she enjoyed it, to me it sounded like abuse.

This issue isn't about my sexual confidence, its about my limits. I have zero desire to slap a woman in the face or choke her during sex. I asked her if she ever would want me to do that and she said that to her my presence within itself is dominate enough to keep her interested. Her saying that doesn't mean much though. I know I can never do that to her even if she wants me to. I can't imagine her being happy with "vanilla" sex as they say all the time. I worry she will be unsatisfied, so its best to get out now. Its crazy, I never would have thought she was into this particular kink/lifestyle. I do like her a lot though. But given it hasn't been that long, perhaps best to walk away now, so she can find someone who is into that.


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## Bananapeel

@ReformedHubby - A lot of women adapt to the man they are with so just because she liked it really rough with someone else doesn't mean she doesn't like what you are doing with her. You can dominate her with dirty talk without the physical component or try to compromise on things that aren't so physical that you are uncomfortable and not so vanilla that she gets bored (e.g. spanking, hair pulling, pulling her down on you for oral). One woman I was dating recently told me I could be as rough with her as I wanted, so I just looked her in the eye and said "I know...you're mine to do what I want with" and then gave her a great night.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Feeling kind of bummed today. I try not to overshare here but my current dating situation has me a little down. I met someone who checks all the boxes, in fact she is my dream girl if I had a list. She is sweet, super attractive, fun to hang out with, and also really good in bed. She also has a very nurturing personality as well. Its only been two months but we have spent a lot of time together. We look happy when we're together, I know this because strangers walk up to us and tell us so.
> 
> But at this point I feel we simply are not sexually compatible. Over the weekend I asked questions I probably should not have and the answers floored me. I asked because when we "play" rough or I am more aggressive I could tell it excites her a lot. Like a LOT. Well, turns out her last boyfriend was a sadist. He would slap, choke, and degrade her during sex. I asked her if she was into that, she says she did enjoy it. Apparently he never even told her he was a sadist, he just did it to her one day and she said it turned her on so much they just kept doing it. I felt bad because even though she said she enjoyed it, to me it sounded like abuse.
> 
> This issue isn't about my sexual confidence, its about my limits. I have zero desire to slap a woman in the face or choke her during sex. *I asked her if she ever would want me to do that and she said that to her my presence within itself is dominate enough to keep her interested.* Her saying that doesn't mean much though. I know I can never do that to her even if she wants me to. I can't imagine her being happy with "vanilla" sex as they say all the time. I worry she will be unsatisfied, so its best to get out now. Its crazy, I never would have thought she was into this particular kink/lifestyle. I do like her a lot though. But given it hasn't been that long, perhaps best to walk away now, so she can find someone who is into that.


I mean....I have been really REALLY kinky in the past....and I really enjoyed it....but it is not something I require in order to have good sex. Also, in relationships where the kink was not present, I still had lots of fun and did not miss it.

It all depends on if the kink is required for her to have good sex or not and it sounds like it is not. It sounds like she is totally into you.

So is there more to your feelings on ending this? Maybe you just aren't ready to move forward with anyone?


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I mean....I have been really REALLY kinky in the past....and I really enjoyed it....but it is not something I require in order to have good sex. Also, in relationships where the kink was not present, I still had lots of fun and did not miss it.
> 
> It all depends on if the kink is required for her to have good sex or not and it sounds like it is not. It sounds like she is totally into you.
> 
> So is there more to your feelings on ending this? Maybe you just aren't ready to move forward with anyone?


Well it isn't retroactive jealousy that's for sure. Read lots of posts on that and she doesn't put ANY limits on anything. Its in my head though that if I'm not giving that to her that something will always be missing for her. I have talked to one other female friend about this who used to be a FWB and she set me straight, and said something similar to you. She said I had nothing to worry about. She said she had tried all kinds of kinky stuff too yet still liked our time together (that's the G rated version of her exact words). Its a dumb reason to break up with someone. She has been open and honest up til this point. I just have to take her at her word that she is ok with our sex life. I don't know...I guess I have been lucky. Everyone I met has been straight up about their needs and wants in a relationship. Much different than dating when I was much younger.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Well it isn't retroactive jealousy that's for sure. Read lots of posts on that and she doesn't put ANY limits on anything. Its in my head though that if I'm not giving that to her that something will always be missing for her. I have talked to one other female friend about this who used to be a FWB and she set me straight, and said something similar to you. She said I had nothing to worry about. She said she had tried all kinds of kinky stuff too yet still liked our time together (that's the G rated version of her exact words). Its a dumb reason to break up with someone. She has been open and honest up til this point. I just have to take her at her word that she is ok with our sex life. I don't know...I guess I have been lucky. Everyone I met has been straight up about their needs and wants in a relationship. Much different than dating when I was much younger.


Ok so - - not going to break up? I hope not, unless there is more to it than what you have shared. Like I'm wondering if it is just too soon for you after your divorce, how long has it been since your D was final? Maybe you are "finding reasons" to break up because you just aren't ready to be more committed.


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## Faithful Wife

I guess I'll post a quick update from me, too....

I'm still exclusively dating the younger guy. Things are going really well. We just enjoy each other so much, and things are so mature and sweet with him. Because he is not from the US, I find his worldview refreshing and fascinating. We have endless conversation, that is mostly what we are doing on dates. The sex is great, too! But it is not our main activity when we are together. It is the companionship and conversation that we can't get enough of.

For now, things cannot go any further with this guy. We are just exclusively enjoying each other but we can't move toward a future together, it just isn't in the cards. We have talked about it and have just left it at: This is wonderful right now, we don't know if it can go anywhere else but the now part is really good and we are going to savor it for all it's worth.

I'm going to have him meet my BFF this week. I know she will love him.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok so - - not going to break up? I hope not, unless there is more to it than what you have shared. Like I'm wondering if it is just too soon for you after your divorce, how long has it been since your D was final? Maybe you are "finding reasons" to break up because you just aren't ready to be more committed.


Well she hasn't been my first girlfriend since separating, and she is also somewhat recently separated so we are kind of in the same boat. I am also her second boyfriend post separation. We do think we have a lot of potential. I just didn't want to enter into a LTR with someone that has needs I could never fulfill. I don't think that's the case anymore. It was a little frightening to hear about her sexual past, because I know I can't take things to that level should she ever need that from me.

There is one other thing that was somewhat of a red flag. When I stepped away for a bit when we were out this weekend. She started dancing with two Navy guys in uniform. When I came back she came over to me and said she wanted to be punished for it later. I think she likes playing games like that. I don't mind it as long as it doesn't go too far. Its not like she was making out with them, it was just enough to make me jealous.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> There is one other thing that was somewhat of a red flag. When I stepped away for a bit when we were out this weekend. She started dancing with two Navy guys in uniform. When I came back she came over to me and said she wanted to be punished for it later. I think she likes playing games like that. I don't mind it as long as it doesn't go too far. Its not like she was making out with them, it was just enough to make me jealous.


Yeah I can see how that is a bit of a red flag. It implies that she wants a certain dynamic in a relationship that you may not be into.

But straight up - - did you kind of like the little game she played? Or no? If you did I'm sure it is something you can work with. If you didn't, you most likely will end up not liking how you feel in the future when she does other similar things.


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## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> Well she hasn't been my first girlfriend since separating, and she is also somewhat recently separated so we are kind of in the same boat. I am also her second boyfriend post separation. We do think we have a lot of potential. I just didn't want to enter into a LTR with someone that has needs I could never fulfill. I don't think that's the case anymore. It was a little frightening to hear about her sexual past, because I know I can't take things to that level should she ever need that from me.
> 
> There is one other thing that was somewhat of a red flag. When I stepped away for a bit when we were out this weekend. She started dancing with two Navy guys in uniform. When I came back she came over to me and said she wanted to be punished for it later. I think she likes playing games like that. I don't mind it as long as it doesn't go too far. Its not like she was making out with them, it was just enough to make me jealous.


Here is the thing. You do NOT have to play any games whether hers or your own. If she wants to play games you are not comfortable with, don't play them. Because they will only make you more and more uncomfortable. Also, I don't think you should even begin thinking about anything being an LTR, until it happens. Until then just enjoy the fun and go as far as you are comfortable with. If she gets bored, so what? She will have identified herself as someone you are incompatible with. At least you will know and can move forward. But as I said if she is cool with what you have then just enjoy it.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah I can see how that is a bit of a red flag. It implies that she wants a certain dynamic in a relationship that you may not be into.
> 
> But straight up - - did you kind of like the little game she played? Or no? If you did I'm sure it is something you can work with. If you didn't, you most likely will end up not liking how you feel in the future when she does other similar things.


Ok...I will admit..the game was a little bit fun. I have never seen someone get so turned on by being spanked, it was kind of hot. TMI..but she even put on a school girl outfit for her "punishment". I am not at all worried about her pushing things too far with other guys, everything she did was part of the "game", and for our entertainment. I did tell her that next time I want to be let in on the "game", ahead of time.


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## Bananapeel

@ReformedHubby 

If you didn't leave a handprint on her ass that was still there 3 days later then you didn't spank her right...LOL! That's just the standard metric to go by because women that like it rough enjoy the reminder when they are getting dressed in the morning. You actually sound like you've got a keeper there so enjoy and appreciate her!


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Ok...I will admit..the game was a little bit fun. I have never seen someone get so turned on by being spanked, it was kind of hot. TMI..but she even put on a school girl outfit for her "punishment". I am not at all worried about her pushing things too far with other guys, everything she did was part of the "game", and for our entertainment. I did tell her that next time I want to be let in on the "game", ahead of time.


Now that you know she likes this game, you don't need her to initiate it.

My ex-h used to play this game all the time, and I loved it. He would see me talk to someone or would see someone else checking me out, and he would (at the perfect moment) come and grab me by the arm, pull me in close to him, and start telling me to stop being so sexy that I stop traffic everywhere we go, or to stop talking to that guy and "the poor guy is just trying to have a nice day and then you come along like a vixen and now he can't even think straight". He would say it as if he was angry and was going to punish me later, but sometimes the funnest part was just him grabbing my arm and yanking me into him and saying these hysterical things. (I didn't do the talk to or dance with other guys part in the way your gf does, in fact, I honestly never did anything worthy of punishment...I was totally locked down for him...but he punished me anyway just for being too sexy or for "stopping traffic", etc). >

Later in bed he would punish me more and tell me all about how ****ty I am and the many ways I need to be punished.

For us it was always just hysterical and fun, not actual punishment. For your gf, she may like it a bit more structured like punishment. But if you just try it in a more fun way first you may find it can be less formal and more frivolous and fun.


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## ReformedHubby

Bananapeel said:


> @ReformedHubby
> 
> If you didn't leave a handprint on her ass that was still there 3 days later then you didn't spank her right...LOL! That's just the standard metric to go by because women that like it rough enjoy the reminder when they are getting dressed in the morning. You actually sound like you've got a keeper there so enjoy and appreciate her!


I was somewhat apprehensive at first, but...perhaps this an opportunity to safely push my boundaries and have some fun in the process. One thing I can tell that whatever that ceiling is I am fairly certain its lower than hers. The woman has no limits, and appears intent on "corrupting" me .  My last girlfriend was 11 years older and had a few tricks up her sleeve as well. Ha, ha...its good to be a 20 percenter...sorry couldn't resist a joke from another thread. On a serious note, I must say I have very much enjoyed meeting new people and having different experiences. Honestly I am in no hurry to find "the one" right now.


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## Bananapeel

RH, Here's one I got a couple weeks ago and it was two days after we got together that she noticed. There were a few more messages after this that I'm not going to include here, but let's just say she was absolutely beaming and giddy about it. 

With yours work on other ways to dominate her. If you need some suggestions I can PM you. 

Oh, and I totally agree about the fun of being a 20 percenter!


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## ReformedHubby

@Bananapeel PM me, thanks.


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## Bananapeel

Done


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## ReformedHubby

Bananapeel said:


> Done


:allhail:

Wow...thanks for the tips. Seems like I have much to learn still. Apparently getting laid a lot doesn't actually mean you know everything there is to know about sex and what turns people on. I certainly can't put what you sent me out here on the public forum, but I liked how your tips centered more on the mental aspects of domination. I agree that is the most important part. I will mix some of it in this evening, it should be really fun for both of us, and I think it will make her happy to see that I am "getting it" and adding my own wrinkles to things.


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## Ynot

It has been a week without any updates from @ReformedHubby. So I assume he has taken his new found talent to heart and has perhaps broken a finger or two and cannot type. Haha!


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## Ynot

Here is my update. I have been casually dating and just taking things as they come. I met a woman at a MeetUp. She had gone to a different MeetUp with an old girl friend of mine. My old GF told her that she definitely needed to go out with me because I was a great guy. The new girl and I dated a few times but we just weren't on the same page so we ended it on a friendly basis. In the meantime I meant another woman while I was out one evening. She gave me her number and we are meeting for drinks tomorrow evening and have been texting/flirting in the meantime. Last week end out of the blue a woman contacted me via an OLD site I had subscribed to and we have started talking and planning a date for Saturday. Yesterday I helped a different old GF do her taxes and we got to talking about a possible FWB relationship. 
I am not bragging. I hope that some poor guy who thinks his life is over because he is divorced now (as I did) will read my update and realize that his life is just beginning. There are more opportunities out there, than any of us can handle.


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## ReformedHubby

Ynot said:


> It has been a week without any updates from @ReformedHubby. So I assume he has taken his new found talent to heart and has perhaps broken a finger or two and cannot type. Haha!


Ha, ha...no broken fingers. We don't always get crazy, sometimes we're sweet. I must say though I really like her. She totally spoils me. She is like a dream girl, model pretty, smart, not at all materialistic, and fun to hang out with. She also does this thing I love. After sex she'll offer to make me a sandwich. Nothing sexier than seeing a woman in lingerie in your kitchen making you a bacon egg and cheese sandwich. We've had the "talk". So at this point both of us are off the market for others. We enjoy each other's company a lot. I wouldn't say we are "in love" yet, but I can definitely see that as a possibility. This one definitely feels like the start of a LTR.


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## ReformedHubby

Ynot said:


> I hope that some poor guy who thinks his life is over because he is divorced now (as I did) will read my update and realize that his life is just beginning. There are more opportunities out there, than any of us can handle.


Agreed...so many people stay in bad situations out of fear of being alone. I especially feel for the ones that are holding on to someone that doesn't even want to be there. I do think some of our "life after" stories would do some folks some good. Although there are also those that would probably judge. Some here are very uptight.


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## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> Agreed...so many people stay in bad situations out of fear of being alone. I especially feel for the ones that are holding on to someone that doesn't even want to be there. I do think some of our "life after" stories would do some folks some good. Although there are also those that would probably judge. Some here are very uptight.


I agree with that as well. Some people look at a divorce as a failure of a relationship that needs to be relived, like Ground Hog Day, so they try to recreate what they had. I have come to the conclusion that it was just the close of one chapter of my life and now I am starting another one. I was married for 24 years. There are some things I liked about it, but I am now finding that as a 57 year old man, I can do whatever I want, whenever I want. I don't answer to anyone about anything, except myself. 
I was telling a friend the other day, how when I was married, I used to fantasize about things I wanted to do. Now I don't fantasize anymore. I just go out and do it. I might find out that some of my fantasies are not what I imagined. But at least I know, which is a lot more than I could be saying if I was still married, whether happily or unhappily. 
The uptight people who would shame me for living my life the way I want to live it, are for the most part people who continue to play whatever role society, family or religion has assigned to them at this point in their lives. They simply lack the ability to think for themselves. I have always had issues with being told what to do, and how to think, and how to act.


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## Bananapeel

I guess if others are posting updates I will too. The woman that I left a handprint on her ass I ended up friend zoning. She's really cool and amazing in bed but wanted a committed relationship and I couldn't give that to her, and it ended up causing a bit of an adversarial relationship. So I told her we'd be better off as friends and she offered FWB, which I declined. We've hung out a couple times platonically and get along much better now but there's still some major sexual tension there. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future but for now it's strictly platonic. I'm still seeing another woman casually. She's amazingly cool but we haven't made seeing each other a priority and we've not agreed to any sort of exclusivity.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> I guess if others are posting updates I will too. The woman that I left a handprint on her ass I ended up friend zoning. She's really cool and amazing in bed but wanted a committed relationship and I couldn't give that to her, and it ended up causing a bit of an adversarial relationship. So I told her we'd be better off as friends and she offered FWB, which I declined. We've hung out a couple times platonically and get along much better now but there's still some major sexual tension there. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future but for now it's strictly platonic. I'm still seeing another woman casually. She's amazingly cool but we haven't made seeing each other a priority and we've not agreed to any sort of exclusivity.


That is the thing, it is all about honesty and openness. As long as no one is forcing someone else do something they don't want to do, what is the harm? In your case I think you did the right thing. I think her FWB offer might have been an attempt to get you into something you weren't looking for.


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## Bananapeel

That's exactly what it was. I originally offered her casual when we first started dating which she said she was OK with but her actions said otherwise. A FWB situation is exactly the same as casual so it wouldn't have worked. She's a really cool person though, so no harm in changing the relationship to one that has a workable dynamic between us.


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## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> That's exactly what it was. I originally offered her casual when we first started dating which she said she was OK with but her actions said otherwise. A FWB situation is exactly the same as casual so it wouldn't have worked. She's a really cool person though, so no harm in changing the relationship to one that has a workable dynamic between us.


Isn't it great to be in charge of your own life?


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## ReformedHubby

@Ynot and @Bananapeel

It sounds like both of you are honest and at the end of the day thats all anyone can really ask. But I must admit even when you're honest sometimes it can still bite you in the butt. I think sometimes people (men or women) see someone they like and go along with casual because they think they can change your mind. It can get awkward when that happens. In those scenarios I actually still feel guilty even though I was always upfront with my intensions. I guess because we have all also been in situations where you are adamant you don't want a relationship, but someone you like enough actually does come along and change your mind. So I can actually understand why someone would take the risk of entering a situation knowing you both aren't on the same page emotionally. 

But yes the coolest thing about being single is you can do whatever you want when you want, and because I am older I have more disposable income. A few weeks ago on May 5th we woke up early. I said lets fly to Mexico, back when I was married I would have been scolded on how impractical that was. But we looked and found two round trip tickets and a place to stay for not much more than the night out in the city we had planned, we're talking a few hundred bucks, I had no idea last minute travel was doable. We literally packed up and left that morning, got to Cancun early that afternoon and came back the very next next day. We had a blast, we didn't even sleep! Sat on the beach by the pool all day then hit the clubs. Of course...we did get delayed in Customs for about two hours when we returned, I guess flying down for just a day looks kind of fishy. But still....things like this are what I love about being single.


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## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> @Ynot and @Bananapeel
> 
> It sounds like both of you are honest and at the end of the day thats all anyone can really ask. But I must admit even when you're honest sometimes it can still bite you in the butt. I think sometimes people (men or women) see someone they like and go along with casual because they think they can change your mind. It can get awkward when that happens. In those scenarios I actually still feel guilty even though I was always upfront with my intensions. I guess because we have all also been in situations where you are adamant you don't want a relationship, but someone you like enough actually does come along and change your mind. So I can actually understand why someone would take the risk of entering a situation knowing you both aren't on the same page emotionally.
> 
> But yes the coolest thing about being single is you can do whatever you want when you want, and because I am older I have more disposable income. A few weeks ago on May 5th we woke up early. I said lets fly to Mexico, back when I was married I would have been scolded on how impractical that was. But we looked and found two round trip tickets and a place to stay for not much more than the night out in the city we had planned, we're talking a few hundred bucks, I had no idea last minute travel was doable. We literally packed up and left that morning, got to Cancun early that afternoon and came back the very next next day. We had a blast, we didn't even sleep! Sat on the beach by the pool all day then hit the clubs. Of course...we did get delayed in Customs for about two hours when we returned, I guess flying down for just a day looks kind of fishy. But still....things like this are what I love about being single.


Been there. I did feel guilty at first, but upon reflection I came to realize I had been honest and upfront. She was the one who made the assumptions she could change me. I have also been on the opposite, where we went into it on a casual basis and I developed feelings. She decided to end it. I was a little upset. But then I started thinking about it and realized what had happened and got over it much sooner than I would have in my past. I guess for me, I feel that honesty is the only thing I owe anyone else. If they can't handle the truth, that is their problem, not mine. I lived too long where I tried to figure out what someone else wanted and how I could be that person. I am long past that now. I am who I am. I like what I like and want what I want. If they aren't cool with that, I respect it.


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## GA HEART

Hi, GA HEART checking in. 

About "casual" or not and intentions and honesty......from what I've found, it's all bull crap and hit or miss anyway. I've been single for so long (and mostly loving it) that none of it makes any sense anymore. You can be honest and your feelings can change, they can lie and their feelings can change. Or you can ask for honesty and be lied to. I trust no one anymore because it's literally all bull crap. All of it. 

Being middle aged and single in this day and age is what it is. We are all single for a reason. I'd like to think that eventually I will find someone that I'm compatible with and that we have mutual attraction, but I know it's never going to happen. (And don't come at me with "never say never, blah, blah.") I'm being a realist here. I've tried it. I've been hurt. Too much. I'm over it. Don't want to have anything to do with it. I hate my desire for intimacy. HATE IT. Most of the time I'm great and happy. Sometimes I'm not. (Hence the reason I wandered in here to blow off some steam.)

My self esteem is fine, thanks. I know I'm a great woman that has a lot to offer. Unfortunately, my attraction apparently does not exist for good men. Or good, single men that I might be attracted to don't exist. Oh sure, I have my pick at any given time from a plethora of men clamoring for my attention.......20 years my senior, or the pizza delivery guy who just wants to smoke dope, or the bubba who can't compile two sentences, or the racist fella, or the stalker, or the one who wants me to be his emotional crutch, or maybe the dude who lives 3 states over. (And no, I'm actually not a pretentious bia, thanks for asking.....)

So, do I lower my standards and "settle?" No. I just get stupid emotional and have an occasional pity party because I actually allowed someone in for the first time in 6 months but about 15 seconds into it I realized I was being played. Again. I'm nearly 40. And apparently I am still an idiot.

So how are yall?


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## ReformedHubby

GA HEART said:


> So, do I lower my standards and "settle?" No. I just get stupid emotional and have an occasional pity party because I actually allowed someone in for the first time in 6 months but about 15 seconds into it I realized I was being played. Again. I'm nearly 40. And apparently I am still an idiot.
> 
> So how are yall?


You know, the thing I see most often in dating profiles is the phrase "no games". For the life of me I don't know why people feel like they need to lie. I thought most men evolve as they get older. Of course men love sex, but there is no need to lie or misrepresent yourself to get laid. Literally plenty of woman out there that would be just fine with FWB and even prefer that depending on where they are in life. Not sure why so many people haven't actually realized they would find someone quicker when they are upfront.


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## GA HEART

Liars and game players absolutely still exist in hoards. I'm assuming in both genders but since I'm straight, I will only speak for men. 

I am HUGE on honesty. Been accused of being "a little too straightforward" by men who like to see their women in the kitchen making them a sandwich. By no means am I rude or tactless with my honesty. I am gentle, but I am firm.

Apparently it's a turn off to anyone but bubba, pothead, emotional 2 year old, etc. (The struggle is real.)


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## Hope Shimmers

GA HEART said:


> Liars and game players absolutely still exist in hoards. I'm assuming in both genders but since I'm straight, I will only speak for men.
> 
> I am HUGE on honesty. Been accused of being "a little too straightforward" by men who like to see their women in the kitchen making them a sandwich. By no means am I rude or tactless with my honesty. I am gentle, but I am firm.
> 
> Apparently it's a turn off to anyone but bubba, pothead, emotional 2 year old, etc. (The struggle is real.)


The key is not to worry about it. Do your thing and let the rest of it just go.

At this point in my life, I live for me. Well of course for my kids too, but they are adults. So finally it can be about me.

Men are just an unnecessary complication. God knows I have been there and done that for way too many of the past ten years. You apparently are into horses, as I am. I am into dressage. So I have been focusing on that. Plus, my dog. He's terrific.

I am moving back (literally, right now) to the little town I grew up in.... in the Midwest. My mom keeps telling me I'll be "bored", etc. I won't be bored. I can find things to do -- and people -- anywhere. 

Don't hinge your happiness on any man.


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## GA HEART

I'm not. Lol. No worries. I just have my moments, which today is one of. I will get over it and disappear off the webpage until the next time I'm struggling. LOL!

Yes, I do love my ponies. I rarely see them anymore due to being too busy with the kids. Boo.


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## Ynot

Ok so this is something I do not understand. Apparently there is some sort of cognitive dissonance where what some assume reality to be is not validated by the experiences they have. For instance people who marry the ONE, end up divorced from the person they thought were the ONE and never come to the conclusion that there really isn't a ONE. More often than not we need to alter our assumptions and beliefs in the face of the evidence we experience. 


I had to do exactly that. I thought my marriage was forever, because that is how I was raised. Turned out it was not. So here I am. I am not a player, I am just a human being with human wants and desires. But I realize that people (and the world in general) change. Therefore, I will get into relationships with women, but I am no longer devastated when they don not work out. Rather I see them as learning experiences and just move in.


Like most people, I would love to be in a LTR, but that is something that will happen, not something I can look for. I think that is where the heartache comes from is when our desires cannot be met by reality, yet we continue to pine for it.


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## ReformedHubby

I guess I still have a lot of optimism. I have seen a lot of people get it right the second time around. I am still hoping to be someone's Prince Charming (not White Knight LoL). There seem to be plenty of nice looking normal women that fit what I am looking for. So I feel very, very optimistic about my prospects. Time will tell if my current lady is the one. I do like her a lot, but I think we're both in the "we're perfect" phase. Meaning its got that new relationship feeling, where you feel all warm and fuzzy, like, all the time. Yes, I am a man and I admitted that I feel warm and fuzzy at times! At least I recognize it for what it is, those bonding hormones are powerful stuff...but...they make everything better...provided you haven't bonded with a psycho. Anyways, time will tell with me and her.


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## RandomDude

GA HEART said:


> Hi, GA HEART checking in.
> 
> About "casual" or not and intentions and honesty......from what I've found, it's all bull crap and hit or miss anyway. I've been single for so long (and mostly loving it) that none of it makes any sense anymore. You can be honest and your feelings can change, they can lie and their feelings can change. Or you can ask for honesty and be lied to. I trust no one anymore because it's literally all bull crap. All of it.
> 
> Being middle aged and single in this day and age is what it is. We are all single for a reason. I'd like to think that eventually I will find someone that I'm compatible with and that we have mutual attraction, but I know it's never going to happen. (And don't come at me with "never say never, blah, blah.") I'm being a realist here. I've tried it. I've been hurt. Too much. I'm over it. Don't want to have anything to do with it. I hate my desire for intimacy. HATE IT. Most of the time I'm great and happy. Sometimes I'm not. (Hence the reason I wandered in here to blow off some steam.)
> 
> My self esteem is fine, thanks. I know I'm a great woman that has a lot to offer. Unfortunately, my attraction apparently does not exist for good men. Or good, single men that I might be attracted to don't exist. Oh sure, I have my pick at any given time from a plethora of men clamoring for my attention.......20 years my senior, or the pizza delivery guy who just wants to smoke dope, or the bubba who can't compile two sentences, or the racist fella, or the stalker, or the one who wants me to be his emotional crutch, or maybe the dude who lives 3 states over. (And no, I'm actually not a pretentious bia, thanks for asking.....)
> 
> So, do I lower my standards and "settle?" No. I just get stupid emotional and have an occasional pity party because I actually allowed someone in for the first time in 6 months but about 15 seconds into it I realized I was being played. Again. I'm nearly 40. And apparently I am still an idiot.
> 
> So how are yall?


You can't trust anyone but your own instincts, so you have to hone it. And one day, these very instincts that's supposed to filter out the wheat from the chaff will actually lead you to someone special, though it's alot of chaff.

I used to be the one of most hopeless on this forum as well, even convinced myself I'm not capable of love. Then it actually happens. But there's always a risk, yet in the end that's what love is, it hurts. Whether it happens when one of you are your deathbeds or if something happens in your relationship to destroy what you have, there's always a risk but you can't experience love if you are afraid of it and the pain it inevitably brings.

Never lower your standards and settle, I did that enough times and the relationships were sub-par, even my last girlfriend who was wife-material (loyal, loving, calm, respectful, hell perfect in terms of qualities actually) still wasn't enough. One day you may meet someone who you decide is worth going all in for but it's not something to wait for, it just happens when it is time. The right person will just blow your mind away, don't accept any less. 

Single life is great, it's not worth giving it up for anything less than someone perfect for you, and not just in quality, but something else and you'll know when its the right one.


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> You can't trust anyone but your own instincts, so you have to hone it. And one day, these very instincts that's supposed to filter out the wheat from the chaff will actually lead you to someone special, though it's alot of chaff.
> 
> I used to be the one of most hopeless on this forum as well, even convinced myself I'm not capable of love. Then it actually happens. But there's always a risk, yet in the end that's what love is, it hurts. Whether it happens when one of you are your deathbeds or if something happens in your relationship to destroy what you have, there's always a risk but you can't experience love if you are afraid of it and the pain it inevitably brings.
> 
> Never lower your standards and settle, I did that enough times and the relationships were sub-par, even my last girlfriend who was wife-material (loyal, loving, calm, respectful, hell perfect in terms of qualities actually) still wasn't enough. One day you may meet someone who you decide is worth going all in for but it's not something to wait for, it just happens when it is time. The right person will just blow your mind away, don't accept any less.
> 
> Single life is great, it's not worth giving it up for anything less than someone perfect for you, and not just in quality, but something else and you'll know when its the right one.


You'r back :smthumbup:


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> You'r back :smthumbup:


Heh maybe, I don't know if it's the same RD anymore though, alot has changed. It was a good and needed break. I would say it's a more positive and balanced RD now.


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## GA HEART

Agreed on "pining" not being good. I'm generally great, but like I said I have my moments. I'm human and I'm allowed my moments and I'm not going to beat myself up for them (too much, ha!)

Single life is good. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if I ever actually meet someone anyway. I'm so set in my ways, so comfortable with MY lifestyle.......not sure how easy it is going to be to mesh with someone else. Not sure I really want to. Haha.

I still have one son at home, and have two foster children now as well. I don't really "date," but occasionally run across someone online and strike up a friendship with them. That's usually about as far as it goes and I'm perfectly happy with that. (Most try, but I don't have interest.) I was just grumpy the other day because I allowed myself to actually meet someone in person, one time, and while it went great at the time and immediately afterward......3 days later I'm ghosted. Ouch. I'm not torn up about it, but it was a bit of a kick in the teeth because this is the first person I have attempted to meet in FOREVER. My time is too valuable to blow it on someone with **** intentions. He was real distant the 3rd day after we met and I flat out asked him if he's lost interest (in a "joking" manner, to not seem attacking.) Instead of answering me, that was it. Haven't heard from him since and haven't reached out since. It wasn't the loss of the person (that I barely knew) nor even the loss of the potential that had me grouchy. It was more about how I allowed myself to "try" when I was perfectly happy NOT trying. And the one I picked after turning down countless others was a massive flake. I was mostly mad at MYSELF. Because it's times like this that make me feel like I'm NEVER going to learn, or that there is just something in me that is only attracted to dysfunction, etc. And if that's the case, how the hell does one ever overcome THAT?


----------



## ReformedHubby

Well, looks like it may be time to end this current relationship. We had our first fight last night. It was so stupid, we poured a bit too much wine I guess. Anyways during the argument she mentioned something that her ex was willing to do sexually that I am not. She could tell by the look I had that she had crossed the line. She has apologized profusely, tearfully so this morning, but I can't help shake that I will never be "rough" enough for her. Never really had a woman make me feel insecure about what I bring to the table sexually. I don't like that feeling. She said again this morning that she doesn't need me to smack her around sometimes during sex, but....I don't believe her. She likes pain, I just ignored this because I liked everything else about her. But we have no long term future if I can't believe her when she says I don't have to do that. It doesn't help at ALL that she bought it up during an argument. Sad really...sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship. I think she really likes me, maybe even falling for me, and I think its clouding her judgment a bit as for as what she needs. Why say it during an argument if it isn't her true feelings?


----------



## RandomDude

ReformedHubby said:


> Well, looks like it may be time to end this current relationship. We had our first fight last night. It was so stupid, we poured a bit too much wine I guess. Anyways during the argument she mentioned something that her ex was willing to do sexually that I am not. She could tell by the look I had that she had crossed the line. She has apologized profusely, tearfully so this morning, but I can't help shake that I will never be "rough" enough for her. Never really had a woman make me feel insecure about what I bring to the table sexually. I don't like that feeling. She said again this morning that she doesn't need me to smack her around sometimes during sex, but....I don't believe her. She likes pain, I just ignored this because I liked everything else about her. But we have no long term future if I can't believe her when she says I don't have to do that. It doesn't help at ALL that she bought it up during an argument. Sad really...sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship. I think she really likes me, maybe even falling for me, and I think its clouding her judgment a bit as for as what she needs. Why say it during an argument if it isn't her true feelings?


Well... this is troubling. You mention that you two are compatible in every other way, but just this one? Problem for sure, guess she can't even be a FWB considering the sexual compatibility isn't even there.

I believe she slipped further by showing you one thing and then in the midst of nearing breakup she tells you another. Words are meaningless. Consistency is everything. It isn't very trustworthy what she did. It's weak and really makes me wonder if she had been honest with you in the past when it comes to her compatibility.

I don't like pain either and I understand completely where you stand. Even if I do BDSM the only pain is possibly just light tickling but the rest is pure pleasure. You do not need pain for domination. Though I guess for some people they need it. Shame really, but it is what it is. I'm sure she'll be happier with someone more into her kink.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Well, looks like it may be time to end this current relationship. We had our first fight last night. It was so stupid, we poured a bit too much wine I guess. Anyways during the argument she mentioned something that her ex was willing to do sexually that I am not. She could tell by the look I had that she had crossed the line. She has apologized profusely, tearfully so this morning, but I can't help shake that I will never be "rough" enough for her. Never really had a woman make me feel insecure about what I bring to the table sexually. I don't like that feeling. She said again this morning that she doesn't need me to smack her around sometimes during sex, but....I don't believe her. She likes pain, I just ignored this because I liked everything else about her. But we have no long term future if I can't believe her when she says I don't have to do that. It doesn't help at ALL that she bought it up during an argument. Sad really...sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship. I think she really likes me, maybe even falling for me, and I think its clouding her judgment a bit as for as what she needs. Why say it during an argument if it isn't her true feelings?


Hmmm...that sucks. But given this, I think you should trust your gut (which had already pinged you about her kinks) and just end things. No hard feelings, hopefully. I know she will protest and claim she doesn't need that stuff but your gut is telling you what you need to know and do.

My update: my thing with my new guy is going great. I went out of town on a family vacay last week and get to see him tonight for the first time...I missed him a lot.

On my family vacay, I told my kids about my new guy a bit. They are both happy for me and proud that I'm in an multi racial relationship. Also I found out that my adult daughter has a "thing" for black dudes that I didn't know about before. So she was actually a bit jealous. I started singing that song to her "if I was you, I'd wanna be me, too!"  I also told the kids about the age difference and they both teased me about that but in a sweet way.

The one thing I was under-prepared for on my vacay is that a few others in my family who are racist idiots were gleefully making racist comments with no regard for my feelings. Two of the relatives did not know I was dating a black man so therefore didn't know I would take any personal offense (even though one does not have to be dating someone of a different race in order to be offended by stupid racists comments, and I would have been offended whether I was dating one or not). But one of them DID know, and completely ignored the pleas of my children to try to be sensitive on my behalf (and on behalf of common decency and humanity). All 3 of them basically laughed off any attempts at asking for more sensitivity and after that I was reminded....oh yeah, that's right. These people are REAL racists. They get pissed when you ask them not to offend people (even white people who simply don't want to hear their racist bullcrap). There is nothing like this in my normal circles so I'm just simply stunned about it, at the time. I thought at the worst, they would still have their idiotic racist thoughts but would keep their mouths shut at least while I was around. But no. They are racists no matter who else is around and they don't care if they offend. It was so shocking to me.

By the end of the vacay, I was really just keeping to myself and my kids and not making much conversation with any of them, which I know they did not even notice.

I will not be mentioning it to them, either. I'm just going to limit (even further) my interactions with that part of my family. And even though my relationship with my new guy likely won't last, I'm still not going to tolerate blatant racism by someone and continue talking to them. I won't challenge them as there is no point. But I also won't give them any of my time or energy in the good ways either.

That makes me sad though. I wish these particular relatives just hadn't been jerks about it instead. But this is kind of a bell that can't be un-rung for me. I lost respect for them in one moment and it is not going to come back. And all because their parents taught them to hate. What could they possibly be getting out of being racists? How can they value their own hatred? 

Sigh.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmmm...that sucks. But given this, I think you should trust your gut (which had already pinged you about her kinks) and just end things. No hard feelings, hopefully. I know she will protest and claim she doesn't need that stuff but your gut is telling you what you need to know and do.
> 
> My update: my thing with my new guy is going great. I went out of town on a family vacay last week and get to see him tonight for the first time...I missed him a lot.
> 
> On my family vacay, I told my kids about my new guy a bit. They are both happy for me and proud that I'm in an multi racial relationship. Also I found out that my adult daughter has a "thing" for black dudes that I didn't know about before. So she was actually a bit jealous. I started singing that song to her "if I was you, I'd wanna be me, too!"  I also told the kids about the age difference and they both teased me about that but in a sweet way.
> 
> The one thing I was under-prepared for on my vacay is that a few others in my family who are racist idiots were gleefully making racist comments with no regard for my feelings. Two of the relatives did not know I was dating a black man so therefore didn't know I would take any personal offense (even though one does not have to be dating someone of a different race in order to be offended by stupid racists comments, and I would have been offended whether I was dating one or not). But one of them DID know, and completely ignored the pleas of my children to try to be sensitive on my behalf (and on behalf of common decency and humanity). All 3 of them basically laughed off any attempts at asking for more sensitivity and after that I was reminded....oh yeah, that's right. These people are REAL racists. They get pissed when you ask them not to offend people (even white people who simply don't want to hear their racist bullcrap). There is nothing like this in my normal circles so I'm just simply stunned about it, at the time. I thought at the worst, they would still have their idiotic racist thoughts but would keep their mouths shut at least while I was around. But no. They are racists no matter who else is around and they don't care if they offend. It was so shocking to me.
> 
> By the end of the vacay, I was really just keeping to myself and my kids and not making much conversation with any of them, which I know they did not even notice.
> 
> I will not be mentioning it to them, either. I'm just going to limit (even further) my interactions with that part of my family. And even though my relationship with my new guy likely won't last, I'm still not going to tolerate blatant racism by someone and continue talking to them. I won't challenge them as there is no point. But I also won't give them any of my time or energy in the good ways either.
> 
> That makes me sad though. I wish these particular relatives just hadn't been jerks about it instead. But this is kind of a bell that can't be un-rung for me. I lost respect for them in one moment and it is not going to come back. And all because their parents taught them to hate. What could they possibly be getting out of being racists? How can they value their own hatred?
> 
> Sigh.


Sorry to hear this happened to you FW, I asked you a few pages back if you had experienced anything like this before and I was surprised how open and accepting things were where you live. It happens to me all the time. Like ALL the time. When we're together we are pretty into each other so I don't really notice much around me...but...if I stop and pay attention or actually listen to conversations around me, I am shocked at what I hear. In any case it doesn't matter. Don't let someone's bitterness stand in the way of your happiness.

Regarding me, I haven't broken up with her yet, she is out of town on vacay with her kids. She is sending me pics every day too, so I feel kind of bad that I am contemplating our future while she is away. I have used this time wisely to figure out my path. I really want to understand BDSM. I even met with a dominatrix last night (not for a session!!!) for drinks. It was funny. She bought her slave. A non-descript guy that sat at the end of the bar and watched me talk to her without saying a word. Oh....did I mention that she also has a husband at home that she keeps locked in a chastity belt 24/7. She was a very ummm...interesting woman to say the least. I learned an awful lot about the lifestyle, and had a lot of laughs. When I left I saw her comforting her slave with soft kisses. I guess he was jealous although he had no reason to be. I no longer think my girlfriend is broken or damaged because of occasionally wanting it really rough. I think its only an occasional itch for her and I can oblige that, most times she is a cuddlebug. Also, she felt really really awful about saying what she did, she has gone out of her way to make up for it. I forgive her.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Sorry to hear this happened to you FW, I asked you a few pages back if you had experienced anything like this before and I was surprised how open and accepting things were where you live. It happens to me all the time. Like ALL the time. When we're together we are pretty into each other so I don't really notice much around me...but...if I stop and pay attention or actually listen to conversations around me, I am shocked at what I hear. In any case it doesn't matter. Don't let someone's bitterness stand in the way of your happiness.
> 
> Regarding me, I haven't broken up with her yet, she is out of town on vacay with her kids. She is sending me pics every day too, so I feel kind of bad that I am contemplating our future while she is away. I have used this time wisely to figure out my path. I really want to understand BDSM. I even met with a dominatrix last night (not for a session!!!) for drinks. It was funny. She bought her slave. A non-descript guy that sat at the end of the bar and watched me talk to her without saying a word. Oh....did I mention that she also has a husband at home that she keeps locked in a chastity belt 24/7. She was a very ummm...interesting woman to say the least. I learned an awful lot about the lifestyle, and had a lot of laughs. When I left I saw her comforting her slave with soft kisses. I guess he was jealous although he had no reason to be. I no longer think my girlfriend is broken or damaged because of occasionally wanting it really rough. I think its only an occasional itch for her and I can oblige that, most times she is a cuddlebug. Also, she felt really really awful about saying what she did, she has gone out of her way to make up for it. I forgive her.


Yeah when you asked about people saying weird things, I mentioned my racist relatives...I don't see them very much as they live so far away. When we went on vacay to see them (and these were not the worst of the racist relatives), it just didn't even dawn on me that I'd be hearing such crap (because these are not the worst of the bunch, I figured it wouldn't be an issue). Though I will say, no one was saying anything specifically about my guy or any black person in particular. They were just making random weird comments, thinking they were being funny. So it really has no bearing on my relationship or my happiness at all. I'm just bummed that I now can't really enjoy those particular relatives again in the future because I'm going to avoid them. Their loss.

Re: your girl...I never assumed she was messed up for her BDSM desires. Just figured you wouldn't be into the delivering of pain, so how can you move past that? Or was it just that you were worried she is messed up rather than worried you wouldn't be able to play that way because you aren't into hitting people for pleasure?


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Re: your girl...I never assumed she was messed up for her BDSM desires. Just figured you wouldn't be into the delivering of pain, so how can you move past that? Or was it just that you were worried she is messed up rather than worried you wouldn't be able to play that way because you aren't into hitting people for pleasure?


Hmmm...perhaps messed up or damaged was too strong of a word when I used or implied it. I guess I didn't really understand it. I also really needed to talk to people to truly understand it. I did a LOT of research. Look my past is no secret on here, I wasn't the best husband. I even reached out to a few former mistresses of mine, honestly I am still friends with most of them (yeah, my life is complicated at times). What I discovered floored me, most have actually participated in this type of play before. Yet they were perfectly happy with vanilla sex too if they were attracted to the guy.

I was worried that trying something that is so far outside my comfort zone may change me forever. I guess I saw it as Pandora's box. Weird for someone as sexual as I am. But....after talking with a handful of women I had vanilla relationships with along with the dom that was kind enough to talk to me about how doing this would make my girlfriend happy. I am alright with it. Its just different, I had to get it out of my head that it isn't abuse.

This woman has bent over backwards to make me happy in every way imaginable, and now that I know this is something that she wants and needs to make her happy, I am willing to give it a shot, I just needed to understand it first. Not saying it will be something I am into, but I am willing to try. In a relationship I think you should definitely explore new things and push boundaries. Especially if you care about that person. Instead of being a prude about this I have decided to embrace it. When she comes back from her vacation with her kids, I am going to have a few new tricks up my sleeve. She is going to love it! 

Honestly I feel fortunate, a lot of guys are with women that aren't as sexual as they are, and they settle. I should be happy to have one that wants to push my limits. Of course in retrospect...I always seem to end up with the ones that are very free spirited, I think something in them draws me to them. I have learned a LOT about sex from women, and they have enjoyed trying to corrupt me in the process. Its going to be fun exploring and if I don't like it, thats cool too. She would respect that, although it may mean we are not compatible, but at least then I could say I tried. I don't think she would dump me over it, but if its not something I can handle I will let her go, and there isn't anything wrong with that. No longer overthinking it. Thanks to all for listening I will continue to update.


----------



## *Deidre*

ReformedHubby said:


> Well, looks like it may be time to end this current relationship. We had our first fight last night. It was so stupid, we poured a bit too much wine I guess. Anyways during the argument she mentioned something that her ex was willing to do sexually that I am not. She could tell by the look I had that she had crossed the line. She has apologized profusely, tearfully so this morning, but I can't help shake that I will never be "rough" enough for her. Never really had a woman make me feel insecure about what I bring to the table sexually. I don't like that feeling. She said again this morning that she doesn't need me to smack her around sometimes during sex, but....I don't believe her. She likes pain, I just ignored this because I liked everything else about her. But we have no long term future if I can't believe her when she says I don't have to do that. It doesn't help at ALL that she bought it up during an argument. Sad really...sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship. I think she really likes me, maybe even falling for me, and I think its clouding her judgment a bit as for as what she needs. Why say it during an argument if it isn't her true feelings?


There's never a reason to bring up what has been done in the past with exes, sexually, with new people. None. Except to get a reaction. She got one.


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah when you asked about people saying weird things, I mentioned my racist relatives...I don't see them very much as they live so far away. When we went on vacay to see them (and these were not the worst of the racist relatives), it just didn't even dawn on me that I'd be hearing such crap (because these are not the worst of the bunch, I figured it wouldn't be an issue). Though I will say, no one was saying anything specifically about my guy or any black person in particular. They were just making random weird comments, thinking they were being funny. So it really has no bearing on my relationship or my happiness at all. I'm just bummed that I now can't really enjoy those particular relatives again in the future because I'm going to avoid them. Their loss.
> 
> Re: your girl...I never assumed she was messed up for her BDSM desires. Just figured you wouldn't be into the delivering of pain, so how can you move past that? Or was it just that you were worried she is messed up rather than worried you wouldn't be able to play that way because you aren't into hitting people for pleasure?


FW, I used to live in a small very conservative town in the Bible belt. I was amazed at what I found once I moved to the big city. I remember thinking, because I had been immersed in it for so long, about how bad it would be to live where I live now. Once I moved here I found that so much of it was just hyperbole, often endlessly repeated on certain media, to the point that everyone there actually believed it.


----------



## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> Honestly I feel fortunate, a lot of guys are with women that aren't as sexual as they are, and they settle. I should be happy to have one that wants to push my limits. Of course in retrospect...I always seem to end up with the ones that are very free spirited, I think something in them draws me to them. I have learned a LOT about sex from women, and they have enjoyed trying to corrupt me in the process. Its going to be fun exploring and if I don't like it, thats cool too. She would respect that, although it may mean we are not compatible, but at least then I could say I tried. I don't think she would dump me over it, but if its not something I can handle I will let her go, and there isn't anything wrong with that. No longer overthinking it. Thanks to all for listening I will continue to update.


I think you need to also realize that something in YOU draws them to you and not just the other way around. The fact that you are open to exploring this side of yourself is also attractive to women. Sometimes we forget that.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Potentially new guy to date....

Just got home awhile ago after going on a first date with a guy who farms about 1000 acres, horses, cattle, all of it. Very cool....

I didn't hold much hope, but he was quick-witted and so funny, he made me laugh all evening. Conversation was so easy.

He is 6'5 and 240 and I am 5'6 and 120 so I felt protected. Important physically for me.

He made me laugh all night and I wasn't ready to laugh! I could tell he didn't want to leave when the date was over.


----------



## growing_weary

I get to be here officially now. 😊 Got the papers in the mail. 

So many men in ethically non monagamous relationships to weed through on the dating apps.

No one has piqued my permanent interest. There are an awful lot of guys who fancy themselves Doms that seem to flock to my profile.


----------



## ReformedHubby

growing_weary said:


> I get to be here officially now. 😊 Got the papers in the mail.
> 
> So many men in ethically non monagamous relationships to weed through on the dating apps.
> 
> No one has piqued my permanent interest. There are an awful lot of guys who fancy themselves Doms that seem to flock to my profile.



Just be careful and be on the look out for red flags and you should be fine. And about those guys in ethically non monogamous relationships....yeah roughly half of them are probably lying and their partner is clueless. I have heard all sorts of interesting stories from people I have met. Yeah the whole dom thing throws me for a loop too. Some women actually want that and are really into it. I have had to do a little homework on it actually. I don't mind engaging in that type of play on occasion, but I don't want it to be my lifestyle.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah when you asked about people saying weird things, I mentioned my racist relatives...I don't see them very much as they live so far away. When we went on vacay to see them (and these were not the worst of the racist relatives), it just didn't even dawn on me that I'd be hearing such crap (because these are not the worst of the bunch, I figured it wouldn't be an issue). Though I will say, no one was saying anything specifically about my guy or any black person in particular. They were just making random weird comments, thinking they were being funny. So it really has no bearing on my relationship or my happiness at all. I'm just bummed that I now can't really enjoy those particular relatives again in the future because I'm going to avoid them. Their loss.


I don't think they as individuals are to blame alone. It's simply an integral part of western culture, and they are only repeating what the media and society considers socially acceptable. If I was to avoid people who make racist comments I'll end up avoiding the majority of the population. They simply do not possess the ability to treat people as individuals. It is what it is. Who cares about the sheep anyway, you make your own decision and your guy, well, I'm sure he's used to it anyway.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> I don't think they as individuals are to blame alone. It's simply an integral part of western culture, and they are only repeating what the media and society considers socially acceptable. If I was to avoid people who make racist comments I'll end up avoiding the majority of the population. They simply do not possess the ability to treat people as individuals. It is what it is. Who cares about the sheep anyway, you make your own decision and your guy, well, I'm sure he's used to it anyway.


Um, no.

I will not remain in close proximity to someone who makes blatant racist comments or jokes. They can be how they be, but I will not be near them.

My guy has no clue any of this even happened, it was while I was on vacation and he wasn't there. Whatever his thoughts are as as person of color, that is up to him and he may not be as offended by it as I am. He is not from this country so I don't know what his experience has been.

Where I live, it is quite rare to hear anyone make racist comments or jokes. My little area of the city is extremely diverse and liberal and we are all about love for all. There are of course areas nearby that are not the same. You can travel 10 miles or so from where I'm at and be filled with all the racist crap you'd ever want to hear from any number of people. But not where I live, it just isn't a thing. Inclusion and fairness and equality are a thing here. When I went on vacay, I traveled across the entire US into the deep south. I expected it from those who live there. That's why I do NOT live there, nor will I ever live the 10 miles away from me where there is also plenty of racism. 

On another note....

Fun date tomorrow night! It is the NAKED BIKE RIDE 2018! My guy and I are meeting another couple for dinner and to hang out and watch the parade of fascination passing by. If your city doesn't have one of these, maybe you don't know about it but many large cities do this so I assume most people know what I'm talking about. My guy is fascinated by the weirdness of it. Should be so much fun!


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Um, no.
> 
> I will not remain in close proximity to someone who makes blatant racist comments or jokes. They can be how they be, but I will not be near them.
> 
> My guy has no clue any of this even happened, it was while I was on vacation and he wasn't there. Whatever his thoughts are as as person of color, that is up to him and he may not be as offended by it as I am. He is not from this country so I don't know what his experience has been.
> 
> Where I live, it is quite rare to hear anyone make racist comments or jokes. My little area of the city is extremely diverse and liberal and we are all about love for all. There are of course areas nearby that are not the same. You can travel 10 miles or so from where I'm at and be filled with all the racist crap you'd ever want to hear from any number of people. But not where I live, it just isn't a thing. Inclusion and fairness and equality are a thing here. When I went on vacay, I traveled across the entire US into the deep south. I expected it from those who live there. That's why I do NOT live there, nor will I ever live the 10 miles away from me where there is also plenty of racism.


Ah, you live in a multi-cultural hub. It's a nice bubble, but still a bubble  10 miles is a short distance, I drive more than that in a day. 

In my city there's racial territories, and multi-cultural hubs here and there. It's nicer than other places I've lived in my country, I guess I just got used to it - the racism that is. After a while you just learn to ridicule other people's racist stupidity, also what I teach my daughter as she deals with it all the time, but handles it like daddy! Best way to deal with it really.

Just don't let it bother you or your guy that much, that's all I'm saying.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Ah, you live in a multi-cultural hub. It's a nice bubble, but still a bubble  10 miles is a short distance, I drive more than that in a day.
> 
> In my city there's racial territories, and multi-cultural hubs here and there. It's nicer than other places I've lived in my country, I guess I just got used to it - the racism that is. After a while you just learn to ridicule other people's racist stupidity, also what I teach my daughter as she deals with it all the time, but handles it like daddy! Best way to deal with it really.
> 
> Just don't let it bother you or your guy that much, that's all I'm saying.


Again, none of this was about my guy. He wasn’t even there and I would never tell him what went down.

Also, I’m not bothered by what people say in general. What I was bothered by was the rude and offensive things my relatives did and said while I was on vacay with them, and that just means I have distanced myself from them even more. Problem solved.

If we ever hear or see anything racist being said while we are out together sometime, we would probably end up discussing it and then I would have an idea on his thoughts about it. So far that has not happened and it likely won’t due to our lovely diverse bubble we live in. It’s not something I even think about. People here are so open and kind, generally.


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Potentially new guy to date....
> 
> Just got home awhile ago after going on a first date with a guy who farms about 1000 acres, horses, cattle, all of it. Very cool....
> 
> I didn't hold much hope, but he was quick-witted and so funny, he made me laugh all evening. Conversation was so easy.
> 
> He is 6'5 and 240 and I am 5'6 and 120 so I felt protected. Important physically for me.
> 
> He made me laugh all night and I wasn't ready to laugh! I could tell he didn't want to leave when the date was over.


So, it has been a week...


----------



## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Again, none of this was about my guy. He wasn’t even there and I would never tell him what went down.
> 
> Also, I’m not bothered by what people say in general. What I was bothered by was the rude and offensive things my relatives did and said while I was on vacay with them, and that just means I have distanced myself from them even more. Problem solved.
> 
> If we ever hear or see anything racist being said while we are out together sometime, we would probably end up discussing it and then I would have an idea on his thoughts about it. So far that has not happened and it likely won’t due to our lovely diverse bubble we live in. It’s not something I even think about. People here are so open and kind, generally.



I was married to a man whom was a different race than me. You just ignore it. You cannot change anyone's opinion. You live your life and dont get offended if others dont approve. We rarely "felt" the racism because we chose not to let it bother us. Maybe because we lived in NYC, it really was not much of an issue at all. In fact, it was quite common to see interracial/inter cultural couples.


----------



## RandomDude

I noticed the bogans and ******** and other associated trash tend to avoid multicultural hubs anyway, there's even a demographic term for it "white flight" lol

Still, it's just a hub. My marriage was interracial, and overall I found it best to stick to my own "race" for serious relationships. Now I have a multi-racial child who can only really blend in within the hubs despite how I'm raising her to cope with the trash and our racist society. You need the numbers on your side after all, if your local demographics have a large racial imbalance and she sticks out she will struggle, but in the hubs it's a different story where you can gang up on the minority of racists.


----------



## Bananapeel

Uggg, it's been a crazy week for me so I just thought I'd post here to help me decompress. 

Here's the story: I was dating a pretty cool lady for about six months. We had a great time together, but her schedule was always super busy (mine too) and she never tried to make me a priority in her life, so I didn't ever ask for anything more than just casual/non-committed/non-exclusive with her. About two weeks ago after a date she texted me that she wanted to see me more regularly, which I also though was a good idea and agreed to because to be honest I had been developing feelings for her. I then planned a date with her for last week and when the day came she flaked on me and then just stopped texting me. About the same time she starts posting on FB a couple pictures doing things with a new guy that she met and he starts liking her posts. I figured she'd found someone else but didn't feel comfortable just being direct with me [she has a conflict avoider personality type], so I took the initiative and sent her a nice text telling her that I enjoyed the time we had spent together, that I wished her happiness, and that if she wanted to include me in her life in the future to let me know. She said she would and that was our last communication. 

Well, we have a couple of mutual friends and one of them invited both of us on a group camping trip by a river for the 3rd-4th. I ended up going camping with my friend, and this woman ended up coming the following day to hang out and play on the river. There were a total of six of us plus a couple kids running around so there was enough of a buffer that it shouldn't have been awkward...but it was. We were both polite to each other but she was definitely keeping her distance from me. A couple hours after she arrived there ended up being some drama where she got pissed off at my friend for not having the gathering kid friendly enough and she just took off like a bat out of hell and went home. I kind of figured it was partly that she was uncomfortable having me around [she knew I was going to be there ahead of time] or possibly something else was bothering her emotionally and she was reacting outwardly, but who knows. 

So to make a long story short I felt really bad about the possibility of my presence inadvertently bringing drama to gathering. Plus, seeing her again stirred up some emotions/feeling that I hadn't quite recognized were as strong as they were. I've lined up several activities to do over the next while (mud run, concert, kayaking, etc.) to keep me busy and keep my mind off of her so all of the brain chemicals can return to their normal levels. I hate drama and this kind of sucked. But other than that I had a great time on the 4th.


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## Ynot

@Bananapeel, I know the feeling of thinking you are responsible for some drama that takes place. I recently went thru that myself. But one thing to keep in mind, is that YOU didn't create the drama, SHE did when she said she wanted to move forward and then blew you off. Plus she knew you were there and then showed up anyways. So to me the drama would be hers and hers alone.
Great job moving forward anyways! It is her loss not yours.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> So, it has been a week...


He turned into a psycho stalker clingy texter. The next day!!!


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> He turned into a psycho stalker clingy texter. The next day!!!


Too bad. Sorry. Keep trying.


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## Ynot

So here is my update. I have been seeing this woman for about a month or so. She is my age and we share a lot of the same interests. She is a widow so she doesn't have a lot of the baggage that a divorcee might have. She does have baggage though, it is just different. 

She is very complimentary and seems to relish and enjoy new activities. One thing that really bothers me is everything seems to be a first for her, or it has been a long time.

She goes to church and sings in a praise and worship choir. She has never tried to convert me. We have discussed religion and belief and she is OK with me not being religious. So, I don't know if I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop or if it bothers me that she is religious.

Then we have the fact that she is a widow, which is something I cannot relate to. She spent 15 years taking care of her husband, which is admirable. It has been a year since her husband died. But she says her life was on hold and she wants to make up for lost time (?). So in some ways I feel like a rebound relationship.

I feel like she wants to move the relationship along faster than I am willing to. So I am confused as to whether it is me or her or both of us that need to slow down or even end it. 
I honestly never want to use another human being. I felt used at the end of my marriage. 

So on the one hand I feel like I am using her, by stringing her along when I have some real reservations about how and where this will end up. But on the other hand I think my reservations are all in my head and I should just go with the flow and see where it ends up.
So that is where I am - confused.


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## Hope Shimmers

Why does it bother you that everything is a first for her (or that it's been a long time)? Because you feel like she hasn't lived?

The religion thing will probably rear its ugly head eventually. When I was dating the very religious Catholic guy, he too said he didn't care if I was religious or not, then next thing I knew he was asking me to get my 15-year marriage annulled so the Catholic church could treat it like it never happened. Ummm.... no.

She does not sound like someone who has casual relationships, which is what I am guessing bothers you because you don't want to lead her on. However, you two haven't been seeing each other for that long (or else I missed some posts here, which is very possible) and I don't think you owe her the talk about "where this is going". She may get to the point that she asks you, and if you still feel the same way you have your answer.

If I'm being honest she really doesn't sound like your type.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Too bad. Sorry. Keep trying.


He texted me about 35 times the next day after that date. Then when I ignored the messages, he got angry that I was ignoring him.

I think I'm going to stop trying, and just let it happen. I just moved across the country so I'll just focus on getting to know people.


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## Bananapeel

@Ynot - if you just want to communicate that you aren't ready to move fast in the relationship at the moment without having the talk just make yourself less available to her. Don't respond to her texts/calls right away and don't change your schedule to make her a priority. Instead just work her in where it is convenient for you. That's a pretty effective general strategy on how to take things slowly. 
@Hope Shimmers - that's too bad. Clingy is a sign of insecurity which would lead to an unbalanced relationship.


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## Lila

Not exactly single yet but I'm on back in the dating market after 20 + years. (everything is on the up and up). All I can say is Wow! I've talked to many and went through a handful (big handful) of first dates until I found one guy that seems to be "normal". The level of insanity is amazing. I'm not sure if it's the swipe culture or something else but people are less afraid now to show their crazy than they were 20 years ago. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> Not exactly single yet but I'm on back in the dating market after 20 + years. (everything is on the up and up). All I can say is Wow! I've talked to many and went through a handful (big handful) of first dates until I found one guy that seems to be "normal". The level of insanity is amazing. I'm not sure if it's the swipe culture or something else but people are less afraid now to show their crazy than they were 20 years ago.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I have wondered about this as well. But I really do not think people are anymore willing to show their crazy than before, as much as it is that now I am more aware of it and on the out look for it. They say you find what you seek. So sometimes I struggle with the idea that I am finding it because I am looking for it. But honestly, if I had been looking for it sooner, when I was married, I probably would have gotten out of my marriage much sooner and saved myself from years of anxiety and depression.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Too bad. Sorry. Keep trying.


I don't know how to try anymore. In fact maybe I am trying too hard. 

I hadn't heard from Clingy Psycho Texter in several days (this was after getting several hundred texts from him spread over the course of a week, which I ignored). The one today said the same thing most of his others said: "Hey cutie can I see you again?"

What is it that makes him think there is still a chance that will happen?

I really don't believe in alpha versus beta. But man.... this guy is BETA. Beta, beta, beta, BETA!!!!


----------



## TooNice

Ok, I need to turn to you guys for help. Or venting. Or both. 

I'm still seeing runner guy, which is good... I think. I've been struggling with a couple of things for a little bit now, and working hard to not just turn away and move on, as I normally seem to do. I like him, so I am trying to be patient and work through this. 

I mentioned that it was sort of cool that we have time together and time apart, based on our family schedules and such. But I'm starting to feel differently. I miss him when I have events to go to and I have to go solo. He should be with his kids, so pease don't think I am faulting that. I just wonder if maybe I should choose to date someone with a more open schedule. 

On an even bigger note, we haven't had time alone in awhile now. Like weeks. He seems to still really like me, and reaches out to plan things. He even talks about things months away. But we haven't been intimate in quite some time. My son is home now, so the frequency of the bf spending the night has diminished greatly, but he has a house, too. Which I haven't been in. I've sat in his driveway with lingering goodbyes... and no invite in. I know he is pretty regimented in his routine, and clearly a pretty girl won't even distract him when he's got his routine laid out. But the pretty girl is getting frustrated. 

I'm beginning to feel a bit self conscious here, since he is the third man I have dated for more than a month or two who has not been compatible in terms of sex drive. I never considered myself high drive, but I have also never been in my 40s and as fit as I am right now. I thought this guy would be different, since he is also extremely athletic. And our first few weeks after we started dating were going great in that department. 

I know I need to talk to him, but I've tried to broach the subject, I've tried to be direct in my intentions... I guess I just need to really be blunt with him. It's a challenging conversation, though. 

I know we won't have any opportunity to really be alone again until Friday, so I will see how the weekend goes. I don't want to break up with him, but the combination of things is beginning to be a bit much.


----------



## farsidejunky

TooNice said:


> Ok, I need to turn to you guys for help. Or venting. Or both.
> 
> I'm still seeing runner guy, which is good... I think. I've been struggling with a couple of things for little bit now, and working hard to not just turn away and move on, as I normally seem to do. I like him, so I am trying to be patient and work through this.
> 
> I mentioned that it was sort of cool that we have time together and time apart, based on our family schedules and such. But I'm starting to feel differently. I miss him when I have events to go to and I have to go solo. He should be with his kids, so pease don't think I am faulting that. I just wonder if maybe I should choose to date someone with a more open schedule.
> 
> On an even bigger note, we haven't had time alone in awhile now. Like weeks. He seems to still really like me, and reaches out to plan things. He even talks about things months away. But we haven't been intimate. My son is home now, so the frequency of the bf spending the night has diminished greatly, but he has a house, too. Which I haven't been in. I've sat in his driveway with lingering goodbyes... and no invite in. I know he is pretty regimented in his routine, and clearly a pretty girl won't even distract him when he's got his routine laid out. But the pretty girl is getting frustrated.
> 
> I'm beginning to feel a bit self conscious here, since he is the third man I have dated for more than a month or two who has not been compatible in terms of sex drive. I never considered myself high drive, but I have also never been in my 40s and as fit as I am right now. I thought this guy would be different, since he is also extremely athletic. And our first few weeks after we started dating were going great in that department.
> 
> I know I need to talk to him, but I've tried to broach the subject, I've tried to be direct in my intentions... I guess I just need to really be blunt with him. It's a challenging conversation, though.
> 
> I know we won't have any opportunity to really be alone again until Friday, so I will see how the weekend goes. I don't want to break up with him, but the combination of things is beginning to be a bit much.


It sounds awfully difficult for such a new relationship.

Granted, I have never dated as a single parent in my 40's...but shouldn't this be the time that limerence makes everything appear great?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

I think it’s time for blunt. Find your lady balls. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Red Sonja

TooNice said:


> I thought this guy would be different, since he is also extremely athletic. And our first few weeks after we started dating were going great in that department.


For what it's worth ... I have dated more than one athlete-type guy that started out great initially and then turned out to have the sex drive of a turnip in the longer term. I don't think fitness and sex drive are closely correlated.


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## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> I know I need to talk to him, but I've tried to broach the subject, I've tried to be direct in my intentions... I guess I just need to really be blunt with him. It's a challenging conversation, though.
> 
> I know we won't have any opportunity to really be alone again until Friday, so I will see how the weekend goes. I don't want to break up with him, but the combination of things is beginning to be a bit much.


Just be honest and transparent.


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Just be honest and transparent.



I’d love to... but I can’t even get time alone to have the conversation. I even used “we need to talk” last night, and I don’t think he even realizes that I’m in the verge of breaking up. Our last night of quality time together was July 4th, and I likely won’t see him until Saturday now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974

Lila said:


> Not exactly single yet but I'm on back in the dating market after 20 + years. (everything is on the up and up). All I can say is Wow! I've talked to many and went through a handful (big handful) of first dates until I found one guy that seems to be "normal". The level of insanity is amazing. I'm not sure if it's the swipe culture or something else but people are less afraid now to show their crazy than they were 20 years ago.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


For sure. I had hundreds of 1st dates. Few 2nd. Lots of wow stories. Enjoy the ride lol


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## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> I’d love to... but I can’t even get time alone to have the conversation. I even used “we need to talk” last night, and I don’t think he even realizes that I’m in the verge of breaking up. Our last night of quality time together was July 4th, and I likely won’t see him until Saturday now.


Well, it's Saturday


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Well, it's Saturday




Ha! Still Friday here. I feel like a heel, it I’m probably sending a text in a little bit. I need to get it over with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

TooNice said:


> Ha! Still Friday here. I feel like a heel, it I’m probably sending a text in a little bit. I need to get it over with.


I did end up handling it via text on Friday. He took it just like I thought he would - very matter of factly. Yep, we've both been busy. Yep, both of our schedules are not going to get any easier in the coming weeks. I feel badly for doing it via text, but I didn't see any other way. 

I'm glad it's done. I did like spending time with him, but it was really feeling like we were just friends. 

Oh well. Back to the drawing board. 


Again.


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## Hope Shimmers

I'm so sorry TooNice. I've been wondering how that was going for you. 

Better to find out that incompatibility now than years down the road.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> I did end up handling it via text on Friday. He took it just like I thought he would - very matter of factly. Yep, we've both been busy. Yep, both of our schedules are not going to get any easier in the coming weeks. I feel badly for doing it via text, but I didn't see any other way.
> 
> I'm glad it's done. I did like spending time with him, but it was really feeling like we were just friends.
> 
> Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
> 
> 
> Again.


I am not sorry for you. I am happy for you. Now you are free to pursue what you want instead of feeling tied down by some tenuous commitment. 

Just this morning I had the very same thing happen to me. The woman I had been seeing sent me a text saying she had been struggling with her own feelings and thought it would be best if we went our separate ways. I was more relieved than anything. We had a lot in common but we also had a lot NOT in common. I really saw no long term future. So all is good. As you said, "Oh well. Back to the drawing board."


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## Hope Shimmers

What is this crazy thing about breaking up by text message after you have been seeing someone for months?


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> I am not sorry for you. I am happy for you. Now you are free to pursue what you want instead of feeling tied down by some tenuous commitment.
> 
> Just this morning I had the very same thing happen to me. The woman I had been seeing sent me a text saying she had been struggling with her own feelings and thought it would be best if we went our separate ways. I was more relieved than anything. We had a lot in common but we also had a lot NOT in common. I really saw no long term future. So all is good. As you said, "Oh well. Back to the drawing board."


Agreed. There were other things with my guy that didn't feel right, but I really liked him and was trying to not be overly critical this time. (I know that's a thing I do!) It's better to move forward and not feel like I am working to overlook things. Same for you!



Hope Shimmers said:


> What is this crazy thing about breaking up by text message after you have been seeing someone for months?


Believe, me - it was not a thing I wanted to do. I still feel awful about it. We were going 7-10 days without seeing each other, though. He was the longest relationship I have had post-D. I like him and respect him, but I simply couldn't let it drag out any longer.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Agreed. There were other things with my guy that didn't feel right, but I really liked him and was trying to not be overly critical this time. (I know that's a thing I do!) It's better to move forward and not feel like I am working to overlook things. Same for you!


Yeah, I probably gave it more time than I should have. There were things I liked, but there were a lot of things that I couldn't. Post divorce I question myself that I am being too picky. But if it bothers me it bothers me. So either she wasn't right or the time wasn't right, but either way it wasn't right.
One of the great things about being divorced is that now you get to be in charge of your own life.


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## honcho

Hope Shimmers said:


> What is this crazy thing about breaking up by text message after you have been seeing someone for months?


This seems to be the new normal. It bugs you the first time then not so much afterwards


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## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> What is this crazy thing about breaking up by text message after you have been seeing someone for months?


It seems in this case that he was not giving her any face to face time so she COULD do this in person, even blew off her "we need to talk" comment.


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## TooNice

3Xnocharm said:


> It seems in this case that he was not giving her any face to face time so she COULD do this in person, even blew off her "we need to talk" comment.


Exactly. Thank you!

I can assure you that this will continue to bug me for some time, and at no point will it become MY new normal.


----------



## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> Agreed. There were other things with my guy that didn't feel right, but I really liked him and was trying to not be overly critical this time. (I know that's a thing I do!) It's better to move forward and not feel like I am working to overlook things. Same for you!


Best be critical, and not rely on just how you feel alone. I always hear people say to lower standards and be realistic about them but I don't know, especially not now. I had rather impossible standards and expectations, yet I found someone that exceeded them beyond my wildest dreams and continues to be consistent. Beyond perfection actually.

No time is not an excuse. If someone doesn't make time for you they simply aren't interested. My girlfriend and I have very intense, busy, and rotating schedules juggling work life, study life, family life, friend life, etc. I am still having difficulties delegating and trying to study at the same time while committed to my daughter. At the same time she studies two degrees and works nearly everyday while having commitments to her family as well as tons of friends calling her for hours for advice as she's incredibly mature and intelligent both intellectually and emotionally. Still we find time and dedicate it to each other.

There's simply no excuses. Also if a relationship is tiring it's not worth it either, you should feel rejuvenated with each other.


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## Ynot

Lesson learned! So I recently met another guy who got divorced about 6 months ago. Our stories are very similar so we hit it off pretty well. He has introduced to me to some of his neighbors, who I only knew casually. This lead to invitations to neighborhood parties and gatherings. 
These neighbors had introduced my friend to a woman whom he has since started dating. Last week he invited me to a fundraiser at a local bar, where his new GF and several of her friends were going to be at. So I went. 
While I was there I met another woman, who was there with her husband. This woman decided I should meet her friend. She showed me a few pics, but they were all face pics. I asked about her and she said her friend was nice, liked to have fun, liked to dance and loved to laugh.
Now this woman and her friend (my friends GF) are pretty well put together, height and weight appropriate, generally in and attractive. So I stupidly assumed maybe their friend was also. Anyways I said "OK, I am up for any adventure" so she took my number and said she would have her friend contact me. 
Her friend texted me and we chatted a while and she sent me some pics. All of them were face pics again. So forward to this week and I get invited to a gathering at a local restaurant where this woman was going to be. 
She arrived a few minutes late and needless to say, there was a reason why all I saw was face pics. She was about 5'2" and probably 5'2" around and looked about ten years older than the pics I had seen. 
She was nice enough but she definitely was not attractive to me. Next time I'll insist on more info before I accept an invitation.
Now I need to figure out how to get out of this situation with some tact. As she is most definitely who I am looking for.


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## Hope Shimmers

TooNice said:


> Exactly. Thank you!
> 
> I can assure you that this will continue to bug me for some time, and at no point will it become MY new normal.


I totally get it, and I didn't mean to be critical. Sounds like maybe he knew what was coming and was trying to avoid it.


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## Bananapeel

That's hilarious, @Ynot! So glad it is you and not me! In the future just tell your friends that you're superficial and like thin/attractive women and don't be apologetic about it. Personally, I'd give them crap about it and have a good laugh about their selection criteria. My common joke with my friends that want to set me up is that my top two qualities I look for in women are low self esteem and daddy issues, plus of course they have to be hot...anything else is negotiable.

For the current woman, just don't initiate contact with her again. If she contacts you just tell her that it was nice meeting her but you don't see compatibility between you too.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Lesson learned! So I recently met another guy who got divorced about 6 months ago. Our stories are very similar so we hit it off pretty well. He has introduced to me to some of his neighbors, who I only knew casually. This lead to invitations to neighborhood parties and gatherings.
> These neighbors had introduced my friend to a woman whom he has since started dating. Last week he invited me to a fundraiser at a local bar, where his new GF and several of her friends were going to be at. So I went.
> While I was there I met another woman, who was there with her husband. This woman decided I should meet her friend. She showed me a few pics, but they were all face pics. I asked about her and she said her friend was nice, liked to have fun, liked to dance and loved to laugh.
> Now this woman and her friend (my friends GF) are pretty well put together, height and weight appropriate, generally in and attractive. So I stupidly assumed maybe their friend was also. Anyways I said "OK, I am up for any adventure" so she took my number and said she would have her friend contact me.
> Her friend texted me and we chatted a while and she sent me some pics. All of them were face pics again. So forward to this week and I get invited to a gathering at a local restaurant where this woman was going to be.
> She arrived a few minutes late and needless to say, there was a reason why all I saw was face pics. She was about 5'2" and probably 5'2" around and looked about ten years older than the pics I had seen.
> She was nice enough but she definitely was not attractive to me. Next time I'll insist on more info before I accept an invitation.
> Now I need to figure out how to get out of this situation with some tact. As she is most definitely who I am looking for.


You haven't committed to anything with her yet, have you?

Just tell her you've decided to take a break from dating and you may be in touch later if that changes.


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## Hope Shimmers

Did you ever realize that maybe you had everything once, and you threw it all away for stupid reasons?

That's what I did.

Recent events have made that clear.


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Did you ever realize that maybe you had everything once, and you threw it all away for stupid reasons?
> 
> That's what I did.
> 
> Recent events have made that clear.


That is "what if" thinking and second guessing. It is not reality. You did what you did and your ex did what they did based on what you both knew at that time. They say hindsight is 20/20 but that is not true. You are looking at what you had from a different perspective than you were then. It sounds like you are not in a good place and are wishing you could go back to what seems like a better place. But at the time that "better" place was obviously not good enough to make you want to stay there. So you left. You made a decision to change things in your life for the better, so now go make them better.


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## arbitrator

Ynot said:


> I guess. She told me she got it from her ex who never told her. I have no reason to doubt her. Really I felt bad for her, she didn't ask for this to happen. I still declined to move forward, it appears that 1 out 6 people knowingly carry the virus. But it has been estimated that as many as 80% of us are carriers but have never had an outbreak or been tested.


*So exactly how did you and my RSXW come to meet up?*


----------



## Sue4473

Guess I’ll post my date fails too!
Been chatting with a man online for awhile and we’ve been seeing each other about few weeks now- conversations are always good and chemistry is there! Well after dinner last night we get into this convo.
He has trust issues from failed relationships and I guess I do to... he says we can continue to do this and hang out our little secret.
What? We aren’t exclusive but we have been intimate and we agreed to not sleep with others 
Now he wants to have a secret relationship and be able to date but come over to play. Another FWB, hookup, in the making I see. 
I ended up texting him that I want to go out in public and have fun and date. This is the 3rd man that’s tried to do this- and they are looking for relationships is what they say.
So tired of this crud!


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## Ynot

Sue4473 said:


> Guess I’ll post my date fails too!
> Been chatting with a man online for awhile and we’ve been seeing each other about few weeks now- conversations are always good and chemistry is there! Well after dinner last night we get into this convo.
> He has trust issues from failed relationships and I guess I do to... he says we can continue to do this and hang out our little secret.
> What? We aren’t exclusive but we have been intimate and we agreed to not sleep with others
> Now he wants to have a secret relationship and be able to date but come over to play. Another FWB, hookup, in the making I see.
> I ended up texting him that I want to go out in public and have fun and date. This is the 3rd man that’s tried to do this- and they are looking for relationships is what they say.
> So tired of this crud!


I don't know. I have struggled with this as well. I wonder how much of it has to do with the expectations we have now vs the expectations we had earlier in our lives. I am not suggesting that you accept guys who just want FWBs. Just that our expectations, as men and women have changed as we have gotten older and also as the world has evolved in our absence from the dating scene.


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## Sue4473

Yea maybe I’m expecting too much lol! Dating has become insanely different as it was when I was in my 20’s. I’m 45 and most will jump into bed before knowing little about you- men and women.
I don’t mind a consistent companion, one who likes to go eat and maybe travel and go to concerts etc. my issue is the oh there might be better out there, so we need not to label whatever we are doing in case that better option comes along. 
To me, this is another nail in the coffin


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## Faithful Wife

Sue4473 said:


> Guess I’ll post my date fails too!
> Been chatting with a man online for awhile and we’ve been seeing each other about few weeks now- conversations are always good and chemistry is there! Well after dinner last night we get into this convo.
> He has trust issues from failed relationships and I guess I do to... he says we can continue to do this and hang out our little secret.
> What? We aren’t exclusive but we have been intimate and we agreed to not sleep with others
> Now he wants to have a secret relationship and be able to date but come over to play. Another FWB, hookup, in the making I see.
> I ended up texting him that I want to go out in public and have fun and date. This is the 3rd man that’s tried to do this- and they are looking for relationships is what they say.
> So tired of this crud!


What does he mean, our little secret?

Like he doesn't want to go out in public with you?

WTF? I would think he was married if he wanted to keep me a "secret".


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## Bananapeel

Sue4473 said:


> Yea maybe I’m expecting too much lol! Dating has become insanely different as it was when I was in my 20’s. I’m 45 and most will jump into bed before knowing little about you- men and women.
> I don’t mind a consistent companion, one who likes to go eat and maybe travel and go to concerts etc. my issue is the oh there might be better out there, so we need not to label whatever we are doing in case that better option comes along.
> To me, this is another nail in the coffin


But to be fair is there really that much difference between not have a relationship label vs having one and then just breaking up if you happen to meet someone else that you are a better match for? I think that in your 20's people are looking more for a life partner to raise a family with. But once you've been burned and divorced and are in your 40's some people are just looking for a different sort of relationship where they maintain their freedom because they recognize that relationships often don't last forever.


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## Sue4473

Good point. But how do you keep them from dating others? I like my freedom to and not sure I want the full responsibility of another person 
But man, it hurts when you know they are still looking for the better, bigger option


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## wilson

Sue4473 said:


> Yea maybe I’m expecting too much lol! Dating has become insanely different as it was when I was in my 20’s. I’m 45 and most will jump into bed before knowing little about you- men and women.


I saw something on Twitter that said modern dating is like this:

First base: Sex
Second base: Hanging out
Third base: Spitting in each other's mouths
Fourth base: Sharing music


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## Ynot

Sue4473 said:


> Good point. But how do you keep them from dating others? I like my freedom to and not sure I want the full responsibility of another person
> But man, it hurts when you know they are still looking for the better, bigger option


I think the reality is, at least at this age, after a divorce, the idea of the "one" has been destroyed. So I do not know if most ever stop looking for the next best thing. I guess they key is to just be the best you can be, and expect that from others as well. What else can you do?


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## Sue4473

Yes agreed! That’s really all you can do. 🙂 be the best and do your best to be a good person.


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## BruceBanner

Sue4473 said:


> Guess I’ll post my date fails too!
> Been chatting with a man online for awhile and we’ve been seeing each other about few weeks now- conversations are always good and chemistry is there! Well after dinner last night we get into this convo.
> He has trust issues from failed relationships and I guess I do to... he says we can continue to do this and hang out our little secret.
> What? We aren’t exclusive but we have been intimate and we agreed to not sleep with others
> Now he wants to have a secret relationship and be able to date but come over to play. Another FWB, hookup, in the making I see.
> I ended up texting him that I want to go out in public and have fun and date. This is the 3rd man that’s tried to do this- and they are looking for relationships is what they say.
> So tired of this crud!


Here's some advice: Stop using dating sites. They're garbage.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> That is "what if" thinking and second guessing. It is not reality. You did what you did and your ex did what they did based on what you both knew at that time. They say hindsight is 20/20 but that is not true. You are looking at what you had from a different perspective than you were then. It sounds like you are not in a good place and are wishing you could go back to what seems like a better place. But at the time that "better" place was obviously not good enough to make you want to stay there. So you left. You made a decision to change things in your life for the better, so now go make them better.


Terrific post, thank you.

No, I'm not in a good place right now, but that will change.

In my original post (the one you responded to above), I wasn't really referring to men. I haven't been emotionally involved with a man in awhile. It was more of a general post and referred to a group of friends that I had and now no longer have, because they chose to make judgment calls on me based on very little information and then chose to gossip about it endlessly. Not one single person asked me for my version of events. These are people who are 40+ and in many cases, 60+ years old. I would think they would be more mature, but I learn something new every day.

I don't lie and I won't cheat. Been there and involved in that. Learned my lesson. I don't need false judgment. 

So that is the end of that, and it's more than fine. You find out who your real friends are the hard way, and I learned a lot through that. 

The father of my 4th child (the one who died just after birth) stopped by today. I knew he was in the area. He will always be the a** that he always was, but at least this time he brought up the conversation about her and commented that she would be in elementary school now. Does he not know I think about that every DAY?


----------



## Hope Shimmers

ReformedHubby said:


> This seems to be the thread to talk about the good AND the bad of dating. Well...I had a stalker a few months ago. It was a woman I went on one lunch date with. She just couldn't believe I wasn't interested in pursuing things. She called me and texted me from different numbers for weeks. Even put a pic of my you know what all over the web with hashtags because she was upset I didn't want to move forward.
> 
> Eventually it stopped, until this weekend. She messaged me saying we really needed to talk. I didn't respond. Then yesterday she messaged me saying her mother died and she wanted to talk. I still haven't responded. I am just a guy that she had a lunch date with months ago. I feel like she is using her own mother's death to guilt me into responding, and it really creeps me out....


How did she manage to get a photo of your "you know what" even before all you did was go on a lunch date with her? Really?

Perhaps you led her on, since you were sending d*ck photos? Maybe you should be prepared for what you get when you do that.

You are "just a guy that she had a lunch date with months ago". Yeah. And just a guy who sent her d*ck pics. YOU are the one who needs to get a clue.

You seem to think you are in charge. That everyone else's emotions should coincide with yours. Well, Newsflash. I have read your threads. You don't get to just decide one day that you want something different than your wife, then go find it and then decide you want your wife a week later. Grow UP.

You are the example that other people should know about so they don't follow it.

You may regret the fact that you are getting divorced, but it is 100 percent on YOU. This is all YOUR decision. YOU are responsible for their hurt -- all of it. All the implications it has on your kids -- that is what YOU did. Now live with it. If you can find a woman who would possibly, ever, trust you.

PS. I will never understand why everyone supported you and sh$t on me. But it is what it is.


----------



## Bananapeel

Today's not going to be a relationship post. I know how so many people when they are newly divorced find themselves sitting around unsure of what to do with their time and it can be a bit depressing. I've found a bunch of local activities to do, some by myself, some with my kids, some with friends, and some for dates. In the past two weeks I've done a mud run, an acrobatic yoga class, a family cooking class with my kids, a free outdoor jazz concert, kayaking, and a practice ninja warrior obstacle course (I completed my first salmon ladder, keylock hang, and warped wall!!!), and this weekend I'm hosting a party at my house. Add to that a full time career, parenting, exercise, yardwork, religious activities, volunteering, reading, and family vacations and it seems like a lifetime ago when I was newly divorced and sitting on the couch by myself unsure of what I was going to do to fill in an evening. Life does get much better once you take control of your life and decide how you want to live!


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## SentHereForAReason

Not ready to date but I figure I can start thinking about it so that when I am 'ready' I can hit the ground running. I'm in no rush but I want to balance the no rush with my outright shyness/anxiety of getting back at it. 

I work out everyday at a gym that happens to be a University Fitness Center so a majority of the userbase is around the 20-25 year range. I don't think I'm crazy but I think I can sense when someone is 'noticing' me, when I look over and they are looking at me, situating themselves in equipment next to me as I move around. Thing is, I don't want to be a creep. I'm not super old as it relates to the entire population but not a spring chicken age wise in the gym (38) .... is it crazy to even think about acting on what I think is a mutual attraction? 

For many years, most of the people I play basketball with thought I was an actual student. I still look 'younger' but got a little gray in my facial hair and in my hair that paints the picture of being a little older 

As a disclaimer, I am not specifically shooting for a young age range, I would say if I cast a net I would look ideally between the range of 25-40. It's just that I haven't dated in about 20 years, have little to no idea what I'm doing and most of my 'facetime' with people of the opposite sex comes in the gym.


----------



## wilson

stillfightingforus said:


> I work out everyday at a gym that happens to be a University Fitness Center so a majority of the userbase is around the 20-25 year range. I don't think I'm crazy but I think I can sense when someone is 'noticing' me, when I look over and they are looking at me, situating themselves in equipment next to me as I move around. Thing is, I don't want to be a creep. I'm not super old as it relates to the entire population but not a spring chicken age wise in the gym (38) .... is it crazy to even think about acting on what I think is a mutual attraction?


There are many reasons someone may be looking at you, especially in that setting. If 99% of the people there are students, you might stand out and be noticed just because you're not like the others. She may be thinking "I wonder why the teacher is working out here?".

As for approaching women at the gym, follow this rule: DO NOT HIT ON WOMEN AT THE GYM!!!!! Most women are sick of men coming up to them in the gym to say hi, help them with the machine, complement their outfit, etc. And it gets awkward if she doesn't want to go along, as she goes to the gym on a regular basis and will have to see you. Wait until it's clear that she's interested, which usually means she initiates contact regularly when you're there. I would even go so far as to say to ignore the women completely, as they are also tired of guys starting at them.

But since you are working out anyway, there are great opportunities to meet women while working out. Join a small group, instructor-led exercise class, such as boot camp. In these classes you'll see the same people time after time and there's plenty of opportunity for conversation to happen naturally. If there is mutual attraction, there will be plenty of time for that to develop and there won't be any awkward interactions.

Always try to be respectful. You don't want to ruin the gym for her and make feel like she has to quit to go somewhere else.


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## Ynot

I agree! Do not hit on women, at the gym of any other place for that matter. Just be yourself and be friendly to everybody. The one's who are interested in you will reach out and from there you can make your choice of who to take into your life.
Doing things the way most people go about it is largely self defeating and usually a big part of the reason they feel the need to hit on women at all. Hitting on women leads to a disproportionate number of negative reactions. Usually with the only feedback being what you remember and no clue as to why.
Being friendly on the other hand places the decision back in your hands, and you get to remain in control of your life, rather than being controlled by how you think others may want to be with you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Thanks for the feedback guys. I just need to gauge if my mindset is held back by my own timidness with the opposite sex or if I really am sincere with my intentions of not doing anything. Just trying to find the middle ground of coming out of my shell of being Mr. Ultra Nice and actually going out and doing something to further my social aspirations with those of the opposite sex. My level of interaction with them up to this point has been when I see them on a machine next to me and I know they are looking, I most of the time keep on doing with what I am doing but sometimes will glance in that direction to catch a smile and then give a brief smile back. 

I got a nice laugh a few days ago. There was a girl on the 2nd half of the cable machine next time me and as she was working out a graduated football player came over to her and tried talking to her and I got the gist of what he was doing. I looked over and smiled and she looked over at me with the look of get this guy away from me. 1 Minute later he walks away trying to save face and says sorry for interrupting you to the girl, I didn't know you were deep into concentration lol. 

My issue before my EW and the challenge after is that I do know when someone is interested it's just when it comes to acting on it, I fold under the pressure of doing something about it. Again, I understand there's a middleground and that's the message I got from you guys. It's still early in the process and as I continue to work on myself and meet by physical goals, I can start to feel out how I can make the plunge of trial and error.


----------



## Ynot

stillfightingforus said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I just need to gauge if my mindset is held back by my own timidness with the opposite sex or if I really am sincere with my intentions of not doing anything. Just trying to find the middle ground of coming out of my shell of being Mr. Ultra Nice and actually going out and doing something to further my social aspirations with those of the opposite sex. My level of interaction with them up to this point has been when I see them on a machine next to me and I know they are looking, I most of the time keep on doing with what I am doing but sometimes will glance in that direction to catch a smile and then give a brief smile back.
> 
> I got a nice laugh a few days ago. There was a girl on the 2nd half of the cable machine next time me and as she was working out a graduated football player came over to her and tried talking to her and I got the gist of what he was doing. I looked over and smiled and she looked over at me with the look of get this guy away from me. 1 Minute later he walks away trying to save face and says sorry for interrupting you to the girl, I didn't know you were deep into concentration lol.
> 
> My issue before my EW and the challenge after is that I do know when someone is interested it's just when it comes to acting on it, I fold under the pressure of doing something about it. Again, I understand there's a middleground and that's the message I got from you guys. It's still early in the process and as I continue to work on myself and meet by physical goals, I can start to feel out how I can make the plunge of trial and error.


Like I said, just be friendly to everybody, that takes away the pressure to act on a feeling of attraction. Because acting on that feeling of attraction will become a natural aspect of any interaction.


----------



## Bananapeel

stillfightingforus said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I just need to gauge if my mindset is held back by my own timidness with the opposite sex or if I really am sincere with my intentions of not doing anything. Just trying to find the middle ground of coming out of my shell of being Mr. Ultra Nice and actually going out and doing something to further my social aspirations with those of the opposite sex. My level of interaction with them up to this point has been when I see them on a machine next to me and I know they are looking, I most of the time keep on doing with what I am doing but sometimes will glance in that direction to catch a smile and then give a brief smile back.
> 
> I got a nice laugh a few days ago. There was a girl on the 2nd half of the cable machine next time me and as she was working out a graduated football player came over to her and tried talking to her and I got the gist of what he was doing. I looked over and smiled and she looked over at me with the look of get this guy away from me. 1 Minute later he walks away trying to save face and says sorry for interrupting you to the girl, I didn't know you were deep into concentration lol.
> 
> My issue before my EW and the challenge after is that I do know when someone is interested it's just when it comes to acting on it, I fold under the pressure of doing something about it. Again, I understand there's a middleground and that's the message I got from you guys. It's still early in the process and as I continue to work on myself and meet by physical goals, I can start to feel out how I can make the plunge of trial and error.


I disagree with the above statement. I bet your real issue is you don't actually know if a woman is interested in you romantically or just being polite, so you have doubt and thus fear rejection. If you learn to read them better you will be able to pick up on their true intentions and then it becomes very easy to ask them out because you don't have to worry about rejection. Likewise if you can read them and know they aren't interested you'll know to not waste any of your time and move on, which is empowering. If you need pointers just let me know.


----------



## RandomDude

Played a game with my girlfriend, placed bets, how many guys hit on her per day, including stares, compliments, outright hit-ons, suggestions, flirts, love-notes, gifts... she lost count but guessed roughly 60 in three hours, so 20 per hour, 1 every 3 minutes when she's at work. Roughly 15 actual proposals and suggestions, e.g. asking for her contact or when she finishes work in 3 hours, so 5 per hour, 1 every 12 minutes. Granted she gets alot of traffic, still would have thought people would be more professional at a corporate reception. We were both way off today lol. Reminder for me not to get complacent and too comfortable! She still has like, unlimited options lol


----------



## Andy1001

RandomDude said:


> Played a game with my girlfriend, placed bets, how many guys hit on her per day, including stares, compliments, outright hit-ons, suggestions, flirts, love-notes, gifts... she lost count but guessed roughly 60 in three hours, so 20 per hour, 1 every 3 minutes when she's at work. Roughly 15 actual proposals and suggestions, e.g. asking for her contact or when she finishes work in 3 hours, so 5 per hour, 1 every 12 minutes. Granted she gets alot of traffic, still would have thought people would be more professional at a corporate reception. We were both way off today lol. Reminder for me not to get complacent and too comfortable! She still has like, unlimited options lol


This may not be as clear cut as you think. 
If so many men at her workplace feel comfortable enough to hit on her when she is working then it seems they see her as giving off a vibe that she is available. 
I’m not saying she is doing this intentionally but if she wants to be seen as a professional colleague rather than some sort of office mascot then this behavior needs to stop. 
You don’t make it clear whether these are work colleagues or clients hitting on her but in a professional situation this behavior is unacceptable.


----------



## RandomDude

Andy1001 said:


> This may not be as clear cut as you think.
> If so many men at her workplace feel comfortable enough to hit on her when she is working then it seems they see her as giving off a vibe that she is available.
> I’m not saying she is doing this intentionally but if she wants to be seen as a professional colleague rather than some sort of office mascot then this behavior needs to stop.
> You don’t make it clear whether these are work colleagues or clients hitting on her but in a professional situation this behavior is unacceptable.


Not colleagues lol, well not anymore we did an R18+ style PDA right in front of this guy because he wouldn't stop asking her out even when he knew she was with me lol, he didn't do it inappropriately though so she didn't see cause to report him. He got the message, VERY loud and clear lol

Otherwise it's all clients and visitors, she's at the reception - hence lots of traffic. She has dropped her smile with guys since she met me, a colleague of mine also visited her reception and he said she wasn't very friendly to him which I was surprised about. When I asked her about it she says it helps to stop guys hitting on her lol, though her boss criticised her for it as it's her job to be warm and set a good first impression. Today was weird, normally its around half the number so 1 guy every half hour. Our bets today way off!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

RandomDude said:


> Played a game with my girlfriend, placed bets, how many guys hit on her per day, including stares, compliments, outright hit-ons, suggestions, flirts, love-notes, gifts... she lost count but guessed roughly 60 in three hours, so 20 per hour, 1 every 3 minutes when she's at work. Roughly 15 actual proposals and suggestions, e.g. asking for her contact or when she finishes work in 3 hours, so 5 per hour, 1 every 12 minutes. Granted she gets alot of traffic, still would have thought people would be more professional at a corporate reception. We were both way off today lol. Reminder for me not to get complacent and too comfortable! She still has like, unlimited options lol


Wow, so what do you want, an "atta-boy" or what?


----------



## growing_weary

Reception, hostesses, greeters and the like get a lot more random traffic so I'd assume that's normal for the role.


----------



## RandomDude

growing_weary said:


> Reception, hostesses, greeters and the like get a lot more random traffic so I'd assume that's normal for the role.


This is what I'm telling myself, as it's ALOT! Kinda makes me feel like I'm punching above my weight with her lol


----------



## Faithful Wife

I guess I'll update, but mine seem boring at this point. Boring updates mean everything is going very well!

I'm still dating my younger guy. We enjoy each other soooo much. The sex is great, but the BEST part of our relationship is the conversation. It is out of this world, we literally can't stop talking sometimes when we are on some extremely delicious topic - - it can be midnight and I need to get going and we will say that and then just keep talking and talking - - suddenly it is 2 am and we thought we only talked for like, 10 extra minutes.

I have experienced a "we could have talked all night, we have so much in common, we can never get enough of each other" dynamic before, but this is definitely different this time. For instance, our awesome conversations don't make me think this means "he's the one" or anything like that. And although we can't stop talking at the end of a date, I have no urge to rush back and see him again the next day or anything. 

Everything just feels great and smooth and easy. We see each other 2 times a week, once on a weeknight for just a few hours in the evening together after work, and then we usually about 6 - 8 hours together on Saturday. We do not do overnights because I can't be away from my mom (lives with me) that long. So that's it, just twice a week, no over nights, and yet, it feels like it is just the right amount. When I see him, I'm filled up with his loveliness. When I'm not with him, I'm still visiting him in my memories and feeling just great about him.

Since there is no pressure on either of us to get closer or move in or make our relationship be anything other than what it is, everything just feels so....free and easy. This is new to me, where we clearly care about each other so deeply and there is a really tight bond there, yet we aren't compelled (for our own reasons or outside reasons) to push for "more". Usually, if I feel so bonded to someone and enjoy them so much, I will automatically start feeling or wondering "where is this going?"

This time, I just don't even care where it is going. I only know that I like and respect him so much that no matter how, where or why we have to end things, I'm still going to care about him deeply for the rest of my life.


----------



## RandomDude

Yeah when you're with someone special the hours turn to minutes. When my GF and I spend 12 hours together feels like 2 hours. Wish it was other way around as we have other commitments to pull us from each other, we always miss each other when we go.


----------



## Ynot

So my newest update. I just got back from a trip to see my step son, DIL and grand son. My daughter and SIL came down as well. The night I got there I got to spend the evening chatting with my DIL. She brought up the subject of my ex wife. We had a pretty good discussion about her. 
According to my DIL, my ex is living in a fantasy world. She imagines her condo is going to be worth $1m because of some urban renewal project the city she lives in is doing. She belongs to a "yacht" club which is on a small mud puddle that no one in the area is even willing to swim in and the "yachts" are just a bunch of small pontoon boats. She thinks she is going to make a $100,000 a year selling radio advertising.
She is dating a guy who has his divorced daughter and GS living with him. The guy is basically raising his GS. Apparently he is close to his daughter and GS and my ex wants to have the same thing. But, she is estranged from her own daughter and her own son has described their relationship as superficial and wants to live his own life.
My DIL told me, she is disgusted that my ex only wants them to be props in her life. That I am not alone in thinking her whole life is all about style over substance and that her kids all agree that I got shafted in the divorce but that I am better off with out her. 
All in all, just hearing this, made the trip worth it. My ex is jealous that I have such a good relationship with my daughter. She was angry when her son and our daughter decided to spend Christmas with me, and she was angry that she was told that she was only a guest at my GS's birthday party and that she should act like one as well instead of trying to make it all about her.
The rest of the time we (me and my children, their spouses and grandson) spent the days out on the water, boating, tubing, swimming and partying. I had a great time. Something that would not have happened if my ex were still around.


----------



## RandomDude

Hmmm, reminds me, ex-wife wants to meet my GF, first time she's showed an interest in it, possibly because my GF is the first woman I've introduced to our daughter. I'm not quite sure how to handle that. Ex-wife is still a friend and co-parent and she's with someone else too. Just... awkward. Think I'll give it a year.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm, reminds me, ex-wife wants to meet my GF, first time she's showed an interest in it, possibly because my GF is the first woman I've introduced to our daughter. I'm not quite sure how to handle that. Ex-wife is still a friend and co-parent and she's with someone else too. Just... awkward. Think I'll give it a year.


Time will help with that. I've been divorced for 10 years now and we have both had serious relationships since then. It doesn't bother me at all, although it did the first year or so.

Spent the day painting in my new house. I have met some of the neighbors and made good friends with the next door neighbor. We are going to an outdoor concert together this weekend (just friends). He is hilarious and really helps me a lot. He also boosts my ego!

It's weird having family only a few minutes away. My sister's boyfriend lives 2 blocks away which is really handy because he can fix anything. 

Lots and lots and lots of paint. I'm covered in it. Uggh.


----------



## Lifescript

Hey guys, 

How do y’all respond when doing online dating and someone you haven’t met wants to follow on Instagram? I feel is too early for that.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> How do y’all respond when doing online dating and someone you haven’t met wants to follow on Instagram? I feel is too early for that.


My feeling about Facebook is that I only have people that I actually know as "friends." On Instagram, I don't really care... anyone can follow me. (I also don't post much there.)

I think it's really a personal preference. Some people like their Instagram to be private, and there's nothing wrong with that. Go with your gut. If it makes you uncomfortable, say so. If this person is cool, they will understand. If they make a deal of it, that would be a red flag to me.


----------



## FeministInPink

So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.


----------



## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Yikes. Sorry about this FIP.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Oh wow. Sorry fip. Sort of. I haven’t been feeling he was right for you but I regret that you are hurting. Take care & update when you can. Hugs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


OMFG 

Take your time FIP


----------



## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Very sorry to hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReformedHubby

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow, so what do you want, an "atta-boy" or what?


I actually get it. Its actually a huge ego boost when so many guys want the woman you're with. Well...unless you're insecure. Having read his posts for so long I am just happy @RandomDude has someone he cares about.


----------



## sunsetmist

Faithful Wife said:


> :
> I think there is a part of me that is always waiting for the other shoe to drop, that is waiting for him to decide to finally reject me and end the relationship. Part of this is because of my history with men (and my FOO issues), but also because RE from the beginning has said that this relationship will eventually end, because in his mind and experience, every woman in his life has left/deserted him at some point... which is kind of how I feel about men in my life.(



No, no, no. So very sorry. You have been so hopeful and upbeat.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sunsetmist said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> :
> I think there is a part of me that is always waiting for the other shoe to drop, that is waiting for him to decide to finally reject me and end the relationship. Part of this is because of my history with men (and my FOO issues), but also because RE from the beginning has said that this relationship will eventually end, because in his mind and experience, every woman in his life has left/deserted him at some point... which is kind of how I feel about men in my life.(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, no, no. So very sorry. You have been so hopeful and upbeat.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out that this post accidentally quoted me, but it was written by Feminist in Pink. No worries, I just wanted to be clear so people know who you were really addressing.


----------



## farsidejunky

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Sorry, FIP. 

Not something you want to hear, but ought to...it always seems like you were trying to fit a square peg I to a round hole with him.

Sorry again. 



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, so what do you want, an "atta-boy" or what?
> 
> 
> 
> I actually get it. Its actually a huge ego boost when so many guys want the woman you're with. Well...unless you're insecure. Having read his posts for so long I am just happy @RandomDude has someone he cares about.
Click to expand...

As a woman, it is sometimes cute and flattering to have a man get his ego stroked because of how he perceives other men want me. But if it goes too far, it kind of annoys me when a man enjoys it too much. It crosses a line into “hmm, it seems like he’s making too much out of himself through some outward image of me”.

Also, my ex-h, I loved the way he acknowledged that other men were checking me out or whatever, but he was very protective of me and did not call attention to those guys. He dealt with it separately from me, usually by just shooting the guy a look over my head that I never even saw. Then maybe later at home he would say “man that dude at the restaurant, I mean go ahead and look, she’s beautiful, I get it, but you don’t have to be rude and stare like an idiot”. Then I would bat my eyes and say “can’t help it, just drawn that way” and he would tackle me and say “best be watching your ass it’s trying to wag around and stop traffic like it always does” and that would be the end of it. He kept a watchful eye on all other males in my presence when we were in public. He knew which ones had an eye on me and he made sure those ones were respectful to me, just using his presence.

That was so sexy and attractive to me. I’m sure he also soaked up some ego kibbles in his way, but he was far more concerned with keeping stray wolves at bay if any were circling me.

Then I had the opposite extreme, a guy who wanted to walk behind me and watch other men check me out while he felt such a kick out of it. His way of doing this was endearing to me, it was playful and fun and light hearted. So with him it did not turn me off. He loved “showing me off” (the walking behind me thing was just one cute little thing, he usually “showed me off” by having me on his arm).

But with some guys that kind of attitude does turn me off and I then long for the way it was with my ex-h.

My current boyfriend is unfazed by any attention I get. He is just chill about everything basically. He notices but makes no action that makes me think he feels any ego kibbles from it. If he does, he is so sweet and untainted, he likely feels something more like “gosh how’d I get so lucky that this amazing girl likes me?” rather than “ha those horny guys wish they could be me!” 

I appreciate his sweet attitude and views on things like this.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Wow, FIP. I'm so sorry. :frown2:


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## RandomDude

ReformedHubby said:


> I actually get it. Its actually a huge ego boost when so many guys want the woman you're with. Well...unless you're insecure. Having read his posts for so long I am just happy @RandomDude has someone he cares about.


Nice for the ego in small amounts, but this is kinda too much that makes me go like "WTF". I think some insecurity/jealousy/fear is a good thing, it makes us human. I like the feeling actually.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Then I had the opposite extreme, a guy who wanted to walk behind me and watch other men check me out while he felt such a kick out of it. His way of doing this was endearing to me, it was playful and fun and light hearted. So with him it did not turn me off. He loved “showing me off” (the walking behind me thing was just one cute little thing, he usually “showed me off” by having me on his arm).


For me it's more disrespect and I get mad. I don't know if that makes me insecure. Still I do compare how many guys she gets hitting on her to how many girls I get... like a pitiful 1 stare per week or 1 flirt per month, compared to her bloody 15 pickup-attempts per 3 hours. Sure, for guys it's different, but meh. Hell she even gets jealous over my ex-wife or ex-GFs who are still friends messaging me, so I show her all the texts because I have nothing to hide, still I find it cute that she's jealous too even if I find it kinda silly. My recent ex is understandable though because she still has feelings for me. I made our relationship public on FB however to help her curb her insecurities.

I dunno, like the whole tough act thing is kinda old for me now. I like that I'm jealous and 'beta' now, emotional with insecurities. I like that the thought of losing her hurts me. I feel alive being able to feel both the positive and negative emotions that I only imagined about for so many years. But yet with all these feelings I don't let my insecurities control me or jeopardise my relationship, like hurting her or suspecting her or playing games etc. I am also willing to let her go if I know I'm not the right person for her. She has extremely high standards and expectations when it comes to love that many may find unrealistic but the way I feel I know I can give it to her, and I have the same, that's why we match.


----------



## ReformedHubby

RandomDude said:


> For me it's more disrespect and I get mad. I don't know if that makes me insecure. Still I do compare how many guys she gets hitting on her to how many girls I get... like a pitiful 1 stare per week or 1 flirt per month, compared to her bloody 15 pickup-attempts per 3 hours. Sure, for guys it's different, but meh. Hell she even gets jealous over my ex-wife or ex-GFs who are still friends messaging me, so I show her all the texts because I have nothing to hide, still I find it cute that she's jealous too even if I find it kinda silly.


I agree, its only flattering when I'm NOT there. I like hearing the stories about other guys hitting on her. Some of the stories are funny, but some are scary and concerning. With that said if someone is staring when I'm standing right there, I take that as disrespect.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Oh, hun... I am sorry. Take the time you need to process. Sending you love and good energy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananapeel

So sorry, FIP.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


:frown2:


----------



## growing_weary

FeministInPink said:


> So, after 2.5 yrs with Real Estate, it looks like I'm single again. I'll post more when I'm feeling up to it. I'm kind of in shock at the moment. Didn't see this coming.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 *hugs*


----------



## TheGoodGuy

farsidejunky said:


> Sorry, FIP.
> 
> Not something you want to hear, but ought to...it always seems like you were trying to fit a square peg I to a round hole with him.
> 
> Sorry again.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


My thoughts as well.. sorry FIP.


----------



## growing_weary

I'm getting too good to be true (via text) vibes from someone I'm meeting tonight. I picked the wine bar so hopefully it goes well.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Still I do compare how many guys she gets hitting on her to how many girls I get... like a pitiful 1 stare per week or 1 flirt per month, compared to her bloody 15 pickup-attempts per 3 hours.


It's apples to oranges. But I've heard other men express similar. Like they just can't believe there is such a huge disparity. Sorry! There will always be a huge disparity. :x

I do think it is cute that you are jealous and protective. I love it when a man executes those emotions without crowding me or making any of it my fault. My ex just perfectly handled it, making me feel like his most valued treasure.


----------



## Faithful Wife

growing_weary said:


> I'm getting too good to be true (via text) vibes from someone I'm meeting tonight. I picked the wine bar so hopefully it goes well.


Good luck!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ReformedHubby said:


> I agree, its only flattering when I'm NOT there. I like hearing the stories about other guys hitting on her. Some of the stories are funny, but some are scary and concerning. *With that said if someone is staring when I'm standing right there, I take that as disrespect.*


My bf and I were out at our usual Wed night outing, and there was a new-ish woman there, had been coming around the previous couple of weeks. We were standing by our table and she comes up and pretty much flounced on him about how she had seen him online on FB etc, and introduced herself. With ME standing right there. She introduced herself to me like two minutes later. I.. was.. PISSED. That was soooo disrespectful! I would never in a million years take it upon myself to introduce myself to some other woman's boyfriend/husband/whatever like that! That would not even cross my mind. The next week she tried to buddy up to me and I blew her off, so she got all pissy and offended... b!tch I don't have to be your damn friend...


----------



## ReformedHubby

3Xnocharm said:


> My bf and I were out at our usual Wed night outing, and there was a new-ish woman there, had been coming around the previous couple of weeks. We were standing by our table and she comes up and pretty much flounced on him about how she had seen him online on FB etc, and introduced herself. With ME standing right there. She introduced herself to me like two minutes later. I.. was.. PISSED. That was soooo disrespectful! I would never in a million years take it upon myself to introduce myself to some other woman's boyfriend/husband/whatever like that! That would not even cross my mind. The next week she tried to buddy up to me and I blew her off, so she got all pissy and offended... b!tch I don't have to be your damn friend...


LoL, I shouldn't laugh at this but your anger is so palpable I can't help it. I can literally picture it in my head. Sounds like she likes him and she only tried to befriend you so you wouldn't suspect she has a crush on your boyfriend. 

I love FB for entertainment purposes, I swear every attractive person male or female literally has their own fan club that will "like" everything they post. I don't even think most people are aware of their "fan club". I feel like a hot woman could literally post a pic of herself doing something awful like kicking a puppy, and her "fan club" would immediately chime in with likes and enthusiastic comments.


----------



## RandomDude

3Xnocharm said:


> My bf and I were out at our usual Wed night outing, and there was a new-ish woman there, had been coming around the previous couple of weeks. We were standing by our table and she comes up and pretty much flounced on him about how she had seen him online on FB etc, and introduced herself. With ME standing right there. She introduced herself to me like two minutes later. I.. was.. PISSED. That was soooo disrespectful! I would never in a million years take it upon myself to introduce myself to some other woman's boyfriend/husband/whatever like that! That would not even cross my mind. The next week she tried to buddy up to me and I blew her off, so she got all pissy and offended... b!tch I don't have to be your damn friend...


Hell what did your bf do? I would have blew her off right there and then and said "Nice meeting you, if you excuse us, my girlfriend and I would like to have some quality time alone" and that's that. And if I didn't do that my girlfriend would probably have tore her a new butthole lol


----------



## bkyln309

FIP, Im so sorry to hear about your break up.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, I shouldn't laugh at this but your anger is so palpable I can't help it. I can literally picture it in my head. Sounds like she likes him and she only tried to befriend you so you wouldn't suspect she has a crush on your boyfriend.
> 
> I love FB for entertainment purposes, I swear every attractive person male or female literally has their own fan club that will "like" everything they post. I don't even think most people are aware of their "fan club". I feel like a hot woman could literally post a pic of herself doing something awful like kicking a puppy, and her "fan club" would immediately chime in with likes and enthusiastic comments.


Oh, that came through in my post, did it?? :grin2: As far as FB, what I find funny is the women who ARENT hot, who post selfie after selfie that have the pathetic fan clubs who make comments about how hot and amazing they are, lol. Seems these women think that this means something....


RD, my bf is a musician so he is used to women approaching him and acting like dumb-asses, so even though you could tell she took him by surprise, he was just short and polite, and didn't leave my side.


----------



## RandomDude

I thought it's a mostly an instagram thing. My GF's past account had thousands (!!) of followers and I always tease her about it because even several of my friends who work hard putting on makeup and taking selfies after selfies for followers never reached her numbers lol. She rarely even posted let alone posted photos of herself, I still don't understand how she got so bloody many. I encouraged her to open a new one however considering how many followers she gets so we can use it as marketing  Can't help but have a brain that monetises everything >.<


----------



## 269370

RandomDude said:


> I thought it's a mostly an instagram thing. My GF's past account had thousands (!!) of followers and I always tease her about it because even several of my friends who work hard putting on makeup and taking selfies after selfies for followers never reached her numbers lol. She rarely even posted let alone posted photos of herself, I still don't understand how she got so bloody many. I encouraged her to open a new one however considering how many followers she gets so we can use it as marketing  Can't help but have a brain that monetises everything >.<



Yeah you have to be careful not to appear jealous. Some women are ok with that dynamic (it’s a way to control parts of a relationship) but for the majority of women, jealousy is not an attractive feature and can be suffocating to a relationship.

If my wife gets hit on by men, I usually just play along and encourage her to flirt back or appear intrigued at how she would react.

Not that I’m particularly jealous; I find it more of an irritation, because I don’t like interruptions. 

I don’t have a reason to be jealous: she’s with ME now and other guys’ attention on her is, if anything, a turn on. Because after all said and done, she’s mine.
When she wasn’t with me and other guys were after her, that was different. I still wasn’t jealous; just a bit more proactive in how to ‘deal’ and get rid of the other guys.

The more you show insecurity, the more likely it is that you might not be able to hang onto her.
Remember when you used to be more indifferent when you claimed you had some kind of condition? Do a bit more of that, if in doubt. But obviously still be caring and don’t act like an *******.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Yeah you have to be careful not to appear jealous. Some women are ok with that dynamic (it’s a way to control parts of a relationship) but for the majority of women, jealousy is not an attractive feature and can be suffocating to a relationship.
> 
> If my wife gets hit on by men, I usually just play along and encourage her to flirt back or appear intrigued at how she would react.
> 
> Not that I’m particularly jealous; I find it more of an irritation, because I don’t like interruptions.
> 
> I don’t have a reason to be jealous: she’s with ME now and other guys’ attention on her is, if anything, a turn on. Because after all said and done, she’s mine.
> When she wasn’t with me and other guys were after her, that was different. I still wasn’t jealous; just a bit more proactive in how to ‘deal’ and get rid of the other guys.
> 
> The more you show insecurity, the more likely it is that you might not be able to hang onto her.
> Remember when you used to be more indifferent when you claimed you had some kind of condition? Do a bit more of that, if in doubt. But obviously still be caring and don’t act like an *******.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


IMO jealousy can be only suffocating in a relationship when it becomes controlling. I believe jealousy is healthy and a good thing. Remember, feelings don't come naturally or normally to me. I even wanted to pimp out my ex-wife and several past partners which resulted in hurting them because I showed them that I never cared or wanted them to be mine. "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your friends".

I think it's silly how she gets jealous when a girl talks to me or when she thinks about the female colleagues at my workplace or my exs but she's not the type to go "don't talk to them" or "cut contact", I just find it cute really she wants me to herself. At the same time sometimes I also tease her about the orbiters we shot down and she takes my jealousy as a sign that I do want her to be mine and I don't think that's a bad thing nor does she. My GF also does not like the attention from other men. Sometimes when guys hit on her it's funny because they say the dumbest sh-t and we laugh about it but other times, the majority of the time, it's eye-rapes, uncomfortable stares, guys staring at her on the bus while touching themselves, following her yelling after her, stalking her, etc. I need to be able to be ready to protect her from these and she appreciates that.

When it comes to insecurities we do share them, doubts, fears, what kind of relationship would we have if we can't share our deepest fears and weaknesses? I used to have a rule that says never to show weakness so I opened up to no one and struggled to open up with my wife. I'd rather not have that kind of 'relationship' again. Besides I've shutdown emotionally a few times already when the emotions became too much and I've already brought her to tears as she reached out to me while I felt nothing only for her to melt every part of me as she does and when ice melts it floods. Vulnerability, insecurity, I want all of that!

Also at this point I simply want to love her as best I can, and I would leave her if I am certain I'm not the best man for her. So I don't really fear not being able to hang onto her. She's the best that I've found and I believe that I will ever find considering the 100% match and a breakup with her would be powerful enough to silence the softer sides of me that I've kept locked up for many years. The part of me that despises everything that I am becoming - is still very much alive. Either way, I win, whether soft RD or hard RD.


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> IMO jealousy can be only suffocating in a relationship when it becomes controlling. I believe jealousy is healthy and a good thing. Remember, feelings don't come naturally or normally to me. I even wanted to pimp out my ex-wife and several past partners which resulted in hurting them because I showed them that I never cared or wanted them to be mine. "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your friends".
> 
> I think it's silly how she gets jealous when a girl talks to me or when she thinks about the female colleagues at my workplace or my exs but she's not the type to go "don't talk to them" or "cut contact", I just find it cute really she wants me to herself. At the same time sometimes I also tease her about the orbiters we shot down and she takes my jealousy as a sign that I do want her to be mine and I don't think that's a bad thing nor does she. My GF also does not like the attention from other men. Sometimes when guys hit on her it's funny because they say the dumbest sh-t and we laugh about it but other times, the majority of the time, it's eye-rapes, uncomfortable stares, guys staring at her on the bus while touching themselves, following her yelling after her, stalking her, etc. I need to be able to be ready to protect her from these and she appreciates that.
> 
> When it comes to insecurities we do share them, doubts, fears, what kind of relationship would we have if we can't share our deepest fears and weaknesses? I used to have a rule that says never to show weakness so I opened up to no one and struggled to open up with my wife. I'd rather not have that kind of 'relationship' again. Besides I've shutdown emotionally a few times already when the emotions became too much and I've already brought her to tears as she reached out to me while I felt nothing only for her to melt every part of me as she does and when ice melts it floods. Vulnerability, insecurity, I want all of that!
> 
> Also at this point I simply want to love her as best I can, and I would leave her if I am certain I'm not the best man for her. So I don't really fear not being able to hang onto her. She's the best that I've found and I believe that I will ever find considering the 100% match and a breakup with her would be powerful enough to silence the softer sides of me that I've kept locked up for many years. The part of me that despises everything that I am becoming - is still very much alive. Either way, I win, whether soft RD or hard RD.




Maybe you don’t mean jealousy but care for someone? Jealousy has negative connotations. It’s good that you have all these feelings for her. Just be aware that it’s early days, and keep something back to yourself (of yourself) until more time passed otherwise you might expose yourself to unnecessary pain. Love develops asymmetrically.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Also come to think about it, why is jealousy so frowned upon these days in society?

If I think about her spending time with another guy instead of me, of course my thoughts would be running wild. And if I spend time with my exs and she just accepts it with no emotion, no feelings, I think I would question the depth of our feelings for each other. Jealousy isn't a bad thing as long as it isn't controlling. I don't tell her not to go out, I only tell her how I feel about it and let her make her own decisions. She does the same for me. Is that controlling? We each have to make our own decisions and suffer the consequences of each. So far we have each other's feelings in our minds when we make our decisions and we stick to each other's boundaries willingly because how we make the other person feel is important to us. 

I like the fact she wants me to herself and she likes it that I want her to myself. Society these days hates this, and even though I'm new to actually loving someone, when I look at past relationships that have all failed. I question society's standards when it comes to love.


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Maybe you don’t mean jealousy but care for someone? Jealousy has negative connotations. It’s good that you have all these feelings for her. Just be aware that it’s early days, and keep something back to yourself (of yourself) until more time passed otherwise you might expose yourself to unnecessary pain. Love develops asymmetrically.


Sure, her family, her friends, also tell her the same thing. Don't fall in love so hard for someone, keep something back. Have options. Don't risk it all, don't risk getting hurt so badly. Fear.

It's all fear.

We are both past that fear. Hell I don't even fear being heartbroken cause a part of me even wants it lol - I only want to love her with all I am as she loves me with all she is. Whatever happens happens, why fear what may or may not happen?

Who cares about the unnecessary pain, who cares about what may happen? Heartbreak is bloody overrated when the feeling of loving someone, it's worth all the risk in my opinion. I spent so many years in fear of opening up, it's about time I open up completely and with no reservations.


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## RandomDude

"To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket - safe, dark, motionless, airless - it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell."

- C.S. Lewis


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## 3Xnocharm

I actually appreciate a little jealousy, it shows that they are invested in you and the relationship. A little bit is good, too much is toxic.


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## RandomDude

3Xnocharm said:


> I actually appreciate a little jealousy, it shows that they are invested in you and the relationship. A little bit is good, too much is toxic.


Ha! Think that goes with everything really 

Balance is key!


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## Red Sonja

(((((((((FIP)))))))))


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> Sure, her family, her friends, also tell her the same thing. Don't fall in love so hard for someone, keep something back. Have options. Don't risk it all, don't risk getting hurt so badly. Fear.
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fear.
> 
> 
> 
> We are both past that fear. Hell I don't even fear being heartbroken cause a part of me even wants it lol - I only want to love her with all I am as she loves me with all she is. Whatever happens happens, why fear what may or may not happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares about the unnecessary pain, who cares about what may happen? Heartbreak is bloody overrated when the feeling of loving someone, it's worth all the risk in my opinion. I spent so many years in fear of opening up, it's about time I open up completely and with no reservations.



Sure. But I guess you haven’t really been heart broken yet.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Sure. But I guess you haven’t really been heart broken yet.


Maybe, last time I think was when I was in teens and abandoned on the street. 20 years kinda makes you forget heartbreak or betrayal I guess


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## ReformedHubby

@RandomDude sounds like you are very much in love, I am with someone I care about but I'll admit I am holding back. I hate to say it, but I think the reason why is karma. Its inevitable at some point I will fall hard for someone and they will hurt me badly. Like you I was never really emotionally deep in my relationships. So I understand the whole fear thing you say some people have. Hopefully when I grow up I can be like you and find someone I trust enough to give all of myself to. That's story book stuff, but it would be nice.


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## RandomDude

ReformedHubby said:


> @RandomDude sounds like you are very much in love, I am with someone I care about but I'll admit I am holding back. I hate to say it, but I think the reason why is karma. Its inevitable at some point I will fall hard for someone and they will hurt me badly. Like you I was never really emotionally deep in my relationships. So I understand the whole fear thing you say some people have. Hopefully when I grow up I can be like you and find someone I trust enough to give all of myself to. That's story book stuff, but it would be nice.


Heh, I always like to say karma dictates I should be dead or in jail, but I'm neither, so therefore karma doesn't exist  Which isn't necessarily a good thing. I wish I can believe in karma so I'm not so vengeful all the time believing we all have to be instruments of 'karma' otherwise no justice would occur. My girlfriend believes it though, but I see it as more action and consequences. I did ask her how she can believe that when I've done so much harm in my past, she forgives me for what I did in my youth, as well as what I did to my exs and says she believes I've become a better person for it. So hey, if that's enough for someone who believes in karma, why isn't enough for you? Forgive yourself too.

The fear I had of relationships and any deep bond with anyone is twofold really, one I simply didn't meet anyone that my instincts could trust 100% (I STILL don't trust people, it's still not about who I trust but what I trust them to do), and two, I simply made a silly promise in my youth not to be an idiot again and be taken advantage of. Overcoming my fear to love, I didn't have to sacrifice neither. The first is a given, she's proven herself thus far, the second is a tad more complicated. I have two sides to me, the softer sides of me, and the more hardened side. The hardened side of me wishes for me to remain in the internal hell I've been in all my life, because I'm comfy with it. The softer side is a dreamer, and dreams of having what only a few these days have, undying love. The two were at odds, but now have reached an agreement.

The softer side of me could never have been killed off because the fact of the matter is, I simply didn't meet anyone that I could consider soulmate material enough to try. Sure I met wife-material, gf-material, and very admirable women in my life but none that could complete me in such a fashion as my girlfriend. Without such a person, I can't say that I have fully tried, and if I don't try the softer side of me will always be bugging me deep down 'what if' 'what if'. Now the hardened side of me has an opportunity to silence the softer side once and for all. If a soulmate breaks my heart then hard-ass RD would have been right all along. But if I had given my heart to someone who I don't or can't trust 100% then it wouldn't work either. So because of that, hard-ass RD is also on board even if he wants a different outcome to soft-RD 

But my instincts don't see us breaking up anytime soon. She has earned my confidence consistently. There's a difference between paranoia and instincts, paranoia says "what if", instincts says "I know", and somehow I just know we have a future. I DARE and tempt fate to prove it otherwise. Add all this to how amazing my girlfriend is, I can't help it but be a fool! 

But that is my journey, everyone is on their own. I just hope one day too, you'll meet someone that you can give your all, or if you have already met that person I hope that you will overcome your fear - because it's the best feeling in the world to love someone and want to spoil them endlessly. Girlfriend complains I spoil her too much but I complain about that too, I have a habit of feeling indebted to all the little things she does, the way she takes care of me, supports me, and sacrifices she makes for me without any thought of receiving. When people once told me relationships isn't 50/50 it's 100/100 I understand that now and so does she. 

I've never been this happy 

But anyway, just for the record, I'm still me. Despite what we have if we don't put in the yards we will fail, the passion, chemistry, compatibility and soul-matey stuff is all there but all relationships I know take work. As I mentioned I'll always be willing to let her go if I am certain I'm not a good influence on her, and if she does betray me I will force her to suffer the consequences of her actions - which I even consider an act of love. Why would I encourage her to be a cheater by forgiving her? She has the same standard as me when it comes to that. Sometimes I wonder if she's like a female/better version of me.


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## ReformedHubby

RandomDude said:


> Also come to think about it, why is jealousy so frowned upon these days in society?
> 
> If I think about her spending time with another guy instead of me, of course my thoughts would be running wild. And if I spend time with my exs and she just accepts it with no emotion, no feelings, I think I would question the depth of our feelings for each other. Jealousy isn't a bad thing as long as it isn't controlling. I don't tell her not to go out, I only tell her how I feel about it and let her make her own decisions. She does the same for me. Is that controlling? We each have to make our own decisions and suffer the consequences of each.


I don't like jealousy at all. Its a reminder of my vulnerability. My girlfriend has been in Disney World all week. Which isn't a place you'd expect for a woman with her kids to be hit on. Well there is a divorced dad from the UK that kept "bumping" into her yesterday. It got to the point when she saw him at the pool later that she actually had to be rude to him and leave sooner than she wanted to. She uploads trip photos every night on her FB. I look at them in the morning. This morning I noticed some random guy "loving" or "liking" every picture. Not just the recent Disney photos....going back and doing the same thing to much older photos too. It was the guy from yesterday. You don't have to be a friend to like something on her page. Sigh....I am jealous but at the same time legitimately concerned for her safety sometimes. Stuff like this makes me mad at my gender. I mean who would think it is normal to do something like this. Its just creepy.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> RandomDude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also come to think about it, why is jealousy so frowned upon these days in society?
> 
> If I think about her spending time with another guy instead of me, of course my thoughts would be running wild. And if I spend time with my exs and she just accepts it with no emotion, no feelings, I think I would question the depth of our feelings for each other. Jealousy isn't a bad thing as long as it isn't controlling. I don't tell her not to go out, I only tell her how I feel about it and let her make her own decisions. She does the same for me. Is that controlling? We each have to make our own decisions and suffer the consequences of each.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like jealousy at all. Its a reminder of my vulnerability. My girlfriend has been in Disney World all week. Which isn't a place you'd expect for a woman with her kids to be hit on. Well there is a divorced dad from the UK that kept "bumping" into her yesterday. It got to the point when she saw him at the pool later that she actually had to be rude to him and leave sooner than she wanted to. She uploads trip photos every night on her FB. I look at them in the morning. This morning I noticed some random guy "loving" or "liking" every picture. Not just the recent Disney photos....going back and doing the same thing to much older photos too. It was the guy from yesterday. You don't have to be a friend to like something on her page. Sigh....I am jealous but at the same time legitimately concerned for her safety sometimes. Stuff like this makes me mad at my gender. I mean who would think it is normal to do something like this. Its just creepy.
Click to expand...

I think it’s good for you to feel this way.

Yes it makes you feel vulnerable. Yes it feels icky. It feels illogical. It makes you struggle with how to react. It makes you stalk your girl’s FB page for all the likes from men.

It makes you uneasy and unsure. It makes you think things you don’t want to think.

But these uneasy feelings are natural and are making you grow. If all goes well in the relationship, over time those feelings will become less uneasy and more solid. They help you develop boundaries together. They help you understand that nothing in life is guaranteed and that you have to keep precious things protected and cherished.

And even after that, you still may get hurt. But eventually the fear of this happening changes into confidence that you’ve done the best you can with your heart in the right place. And from there, even if you are hurt you will still take away the love lessons and good times and can move on with your head held high.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I think it’s good for you to feel this way.
> 
> Yes it makes you feel vulnerable. Yes it feels icky. It feels illogical. It makes you struggle with how to react. It makes you stalk your girl’s FB page for all the likes from men.
> 
> It makes you uneasy and unsure. It makes you think things you don’t want to think.
> 
> But these uneasy feelings are natural and are making you grow. If all goes well in the relationship, over time those feelings will become less uneasy and more solid. They help you develop boundaries together. They help you understand that nothing in life is guaranteed and that you have to keep precious things protected and cherished.
> 
> And even after that, you still may get hurt. But eventually the fear of this happening changes into confidence that you’ve done the best you can with your heart in the right place. And from there, even if you are hurt you will still take away the love lessons and good times and can move on with your head held high.


Thanks for the encouragement and advice. Both of us wanted something casual, yet here we are. It rocked us both, to the point that neither of us wanted to admit that it was real at first. Both of us in denial. Feels like this is going to be a thing for a while, we are looking at places together now. At times its overwhelming, it makes you want to run. 

I do like this thread....its a good place to talk to other singles about life after marriage and share stories. Had I placed this in the General Relationship Discussion section someone probably would have suggested I get a VAR and implied that she wants the attention bla, bla, bla. Hmmmm....I think the next time she goes out with her girlfriends I will post a Girls Night Out thread in the General forum. Its been a while since TAM had one >


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## RandomDude

Aye, and if I don't, I know I will always regret that I didn't give my girlfriend a chance that she has proven she at the very least deserves.



ReformedHubby said:


> I don't like jealousy at all. Its a reminder of my vulnerability. My girlfriend has been in Disney World all week. Which isn't a place you'd expect for a woman with her kids to be hit on. Well there is a divorced dad from the UK that kept "bumping" into her yesterday. It got to the point when she saw him at the pool later that she actually had to be rude to him and leave sooner than she wanted to. She uploads trip photos every night on her FB. I look at them in the morning. This morning I noticed some random guy "loving" or "liking" every picture. Not just the recent Disney photos....going back and doing the same thing to much older photos too. It was the guy from yesterday. You don't have to be a friend to like something on her page. Sigh....I am jealous but at the same time legitimately concerned for her safety sometimes. Stuff like this makes me mad at my gender. I mean who would think it is normal to do something like this. Its just creepy.


Lol yeah I know what you mean. My girlfriend has had to run quite a few times already from stalkers on the street who waited until she finished work or having to go to the back office from guys salivating in front of her. With all that I taught quite a few self-defense techniques for her to use in case she was grabbed when alone while making sure she understands the first option is always to run. Even simple things like how to escape a man's grip is vital IMO, and we practice it when we wrestle and tickle lol. Still it's only a matter of time before I drop someone I think, I've come close already with this drunk on the street but I shielded her and he didn't come too close. I just hope I can restrain myself from breaking their arms once I do get someone in a joint lock. Hopefully though, it'll never happen as long as we keep ourselves away from dangerous situations and environments. We both don't drink thankfully, so maybe we will remain lucky.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Thanks for the encouragement and advice. Both of us wanted something casual, yet here we are. It rocked us both, to the point that neither of us wanted to admit that it was real at first. Both of us in denial. Feels like this is going to be a thing for a while, we are looking at places together now. At times its overwhelming, it makes you want to run.
> 
> I do like this thread....its a good place to talk to other singles about life after marriage and share stories. Had I placed this in the General Relationship Discussion section someone probably would have suggested I get a VAR and implied that she wants the attention bla, bla, bla. Hmmmm....I think the next time she goes out with her girlfriends I will post a Girls Night Out thread in the General forum. Its been a while since TAM had one >


Actually I hope you do start a thread like that. And I'd like to hear it from the perspective of a man who didn't care about things like that before (and you have cheated before as well), but now you find yourself feeling things you used to make fun of other men for (even if not out loud).

When I first came here and described how possessive my ex-h and I were with each other (we actually created sex games out of our possessiveness), some people said it was weird and that we must not trust each other and other unsupportive things. And people who had never felt possessiveness (especially men) really came down on my ex-h as if he had excessive jealousy issues. But that's just not how it was, at all. It was awesome and created strength in our relationship and our love for each other. The fact that we still love each other today in ways far beyond jealousy or possessiveness was born from that extreme care and attention we gave to each other when we were together.


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## DustyDog

Ynot said:


> The other two Singles thread have over a 1000 posts each. So I thought I would start one for the new year (about three weeks too late)
> Here is my update for the new year:
> I broke up with my most recent GF the day after Christmas. It was a mutual thing. I had been feeling like the walls were closing in and there were a few red flags that I had been trying to ignore. She said she just stopped feeling "it". We decided to part as friends, and have since done a few things and texted occasionally. In fact I am supposed to see her at a MeetUp on Thursday.
> In the meantime, I have realized that I had been spending a lot of time doing relationship stuff and not enough time on me stuff. So I have taken this opportunity to refocus on me and my wants.
> One of the things that I have realized about myself and what may have become an issue in my most recent relationship was this kernel of anger that still festers inside of me about how everything went down during my divorce. I realize that I really need to snuff that out so that I can begin to truly enjoy my new life. So that is one of the things I am working on.


"You never really get over Big Problems. What you must do, instead, is outgrow them - by developing new and more important things in your life, such that the old problems seem like they never mattered anyway". Karl Jung


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> When I first came here and described how possessive my ex-h and I were with each other (we actually created sex games out of our possessiveness), some people said it was weird and that we must not trust each other and other unsupportive things. And people who had never felt possessiveness (especially men) really came down on my ex-h as if he had excessive jealousy issues. But that's just not how it was, at all. It was awesome and created strength in our relationship and our love for each other. The fact that we still love each other today in ways far beyond jealousy or possessiveness was born from that extreme care and attention we gave to each other when we were together.


THIS is honestly what I crave to have in a relationship! (haven't gotten it yet) I always say, I am NOT jealous, I am territorial! :grin2:

FW, after all this time I have never read your story, what happened with you and XH? (cliffs notes, lol) Scary that you could share this kind of closeness and yet still divorce...


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Actually I hope you do start a thread like that. And I'd like to hear it from the perspective of a man who didn't care about things like that before (and you have cheated before as well), but now you find yourself feeling things you used to make fun of other men for (even if not out loud).
> 
> When I first came here and described how possessive my ex-h and I were with each other (we actually created sex games out of our possessiveness), some people said it was weird and that we must not trust each other and other unsupportive things. And people who had never felt possessiveness (especially men) really came down on my ex-h as if he had excessive jealousy issues. But that's just not how it was, at all. It was awesome and created strength in our relationship and our love for each other. The fact that we still love each other today in ways far beyond jealousy or possessiveness was born from that extreme care and attention we gave to each other when we were together.


The next time she goes out I will definitely start that thread. Most of her friends are younger than her and also very attractive. They get a lot of attention when they are out, and they go to trendy night spots. It does make me feel worried when she is out, and I am NOT used to that. Its like I am learning about things now that I never experienced before. I would be very very hurt if she cheated on me. That is also a new feeling for me. Sigh....I am beta now :rofl: It doesn't help that her record of fidelity is very similar to mine. I don't ever rain on her parade though even though it makes me anxious when she is out. She sends me pics throughout the evening and usually comes over to my place afterwards. That thread will be a doozy though, I think most of the guys here would flip out if they knew I was "ok" with my girlfriend going out even though she had multiple EAs and one PA on her ex-husband. We both feel that its different for us though. I am learning now what it feels like to be invested.

We also sometimes play sex games based on jealousy when we go out, the first time happened by accident though, well actually I think it was a test on her part. I passed. It helped bring me out of my vanilla world and more into one of her kinks. I like having a partner that challenges me in this way, not used to that either. She doesn't explicitly say what she wants, but she dropped enough hints, good thing I am empathic enough to figure it out.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Sigh....I am beta now :rofl:


I don't know why you think this is beta.

My ex-h would literally beat his chest with his fists like a gorilla and say things like "mine! you woman - *only mine!*" as he then pretended to be attacking and chasing off some dude, then swoop back by and pick me up off my feet and toss me on the bed.

Other times he said things like "hey, you don't leave your treasure laying around unattended, you _treasure it_ and keep it safe from thieves."

Or things like, "quit stopping traffic all the time, they are just men, they are powerless against you!" (he would say this if a dude honked while driving by or something).

In some cases, and not in a kidding way, he would forbid me from wearing certain clothes. Too low, too short, too revealing for his tastes for that occasion, and he would say "sorry babe, you are just toooo sexy in that and I don't want to spend the evening murdering all the men with my stare". (Keeping in mind, I'm sexy even if no skin is showing, so it was not that he didn't like me to look sexy, it was that he gauged the situation and didn't want to leave his treasure laying around for others to be scheming about).

Or times when some dude would hit on me because he walked around the corner or something, and he comes back, scares the dude off, then grabs me by the arm and whispers in my ear "I see you are out here shaking that tail around again, we are going to have a talk about this when we get home"...and then at home come the spankings and pretend scoldings and then awesome sex.

What he is really telling me in all of these things:

*he recognizes I am a catch

*he wants me all to himself and doesn't care if this seems jealous, he outwardly admits he wants to possess me

*he knows that (some) men are wolves and they intend to do more than just steal a look and he is constantly on guard for my body's well being 

*he knows I love him and am not at all naughty and that I only want him and want to be possessed by him

*he also wants to be possessed by me and is faithful

......

Being faithful and possessive is sexy, RH. It is a whole new level of intimacy. And for me, a whole different level of sex. A level that is far better than less committed sex. There's soooo far you can go when you point all your focus in one direction and keep learning that partner and yourself together over time, while holding on to each other tight and not allowing others in - at all!


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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> IMO jealousy can be only suffocating in a relationship when it becomes controlling. I believe jealousy is healthy and a good thing. Remember, feelings don't come naturally or normally to me. I even wanted to pimp out my ex-wife and several past partners which resulted in hurting them because I showed them that I never cared or wanted them to be mine. "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your friends".
> 
> I think it's silly how she gets jealous when a girl talks to me or when she thinks about the female colleagues at my workplace or my exs but she's not the type to go "don't talk to them" or "cut contact", I just find it cute really she wants me to herself. At the same time sometimes I also tease her about the orbiters we shot down and she takes my jealousy as a sign that I do want her to be mine and I don't think that's a bad thing nor does she. My GF also does not like the attention from other men. Sometimes when guys hit on her it's funny because they say the dumbest sh-t and we laugh about it but other times, the majority of the time, it's eye-rapes, uncomfortable stares, guys staring at her on the bus while touching themselves, following her yelling after her, stalking her, etc. I need to be able to be ready to protect her from these and she appreciates that.
> 
> When it comes to insecurities we do share them, doubts, fears, what kind of relationship would we have if we can't share our deepest fears and weaknesses? I used to have a rule that says never to show weakness so I opened up to no one and struggled to open up with my wife. I'd rather not have that kind of 'relationship' again. Besides I've shutdown emotionally a few times already when the emotions became too much and I've already brought her to tears as she reached out to me while I felt nothing only for her to melt every part of me as she does and when ice melts it floods. Vulnerability, insecurity, I want all of that!
> 
> Also at this point I simply want to love her as best I can, and I would leave her if I am certain I'm not the best man for her. So I don't really fear not being able to hang onto her. She's the best that I've found and I believe that I will ever find considering the 100% match and a breakup with her would be powerful enough to silence the softer sides of me that I've kept locked up for many years. The part of me that despises everything that I am becoming - is still very much alive. Either way, I win, whether soft RD or hard RD.


You seem to put a lot of importance on what other men think of your girlfriend.

I get that you like that she is desirable to others, but why at this point (since you are a couple) is that even relevant? It almost sounds like you put all her value on how much other men think of her. 

You haven't been with her long, so please just be wary. If this woman truly had/has thousands of followers and tons of men still hitting on her, don't discount the possible fact that she is welcoming this and it's feeding her ego. Lots of women are beautiful; men don't fall to their feet like you describe unless there is some sort of encouragement.


----------



## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> You seem to put a lot of importance on what other men think of your girlfriend.
> 
> I get that you like that she is desirable to others, but why at this point (since you are a couple) is that even relevant? It almost sounds like you put all her value on how much other men think of her.
> 
> You haven't been with her long, so please just be wary. If this woman truly had/has thousands of followers and tons of men still hitting on her, don't discount the possible fact that she is welcoming this and it's feeding her ego. Lots of women are beautiful; men don't fall to their feet like you describe unless there is some sort of encouragement.


Erm, actually I'm more annoyed about it if anything. I'm not used to it, so it's both wonder and annoyance. She is the most stunning I've ever had though. She's not welcoming the attention deliberately, but I guess with her role it's normal. I don't get the thousands of followers on instagram though. A friend of mine is also very attractive but she had less then a thousand and she's much more active in it. I don't know really, I do avoid attention-seeking divas like the friend of mine and I know my girlfriend isn't one of them.


----------



## bkyln309

Hope Shimmers said:


> You seem to put a lot of importance on what other men think of your girlfriend.
> 
> I get that you like that she is desirable to others, but why at this point (since you are a couple) is that even relevant? It almost sounds like you put all her value on how much other men think of her.
> 
> You haven't been with her long, so please just be wary. If this woman truly had/has thousands of followers and tons of men still hitting on her, don't discount the possible fact that she is welcoming this and it's feeding her ego. Lots of women are beautiful; men don't fall to their feet like you describe unless there is some sort of encouragement.


Honestly I think Random Dude is feeding his ego by all the boasting on her looks and followers. RD you seem to have low esteem. Be careful! She doesnt have thousands of followers on her looks alone. She is encouraging the behavior.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Hope Shimmers said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to put a lot of importance on what other men think of your girlfriend.
> 
> I get that you like that she is desirable to others, but why at this point (since you are a couple) is that even relevant? It almost sounds like you put all her value on how much other men think of her.
> 
> You haven't been with her long, so please just be wary. If this woman truly had/has thousands of followers and tons of men still hitting on her, don't discount the possible fact that she is welcoming this and it's feeding her ego. Lots of women are beautiful; men don't fall to their feet like you describe unless there is some sort of encouragement.
> 
> 
> 
> Erm, actually I'm more annoyed about it if anything. I'm not used to it, so it's both wonder and annoyance. She is the most stunning I've ever had though. She's not welcoming the attention deliberately, but I guess with her role it's normal. I don't get the thousands of followers on instagram though. A friend of mine is also very attractive but she had less then a thousand and she's much more active in it. I don't know really, I do avoid attention-seeking divas like the friend of mine and I know my girlfriend isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

The thing with followers is not a big deal and doesn’t mean anything. It is quite easy and quick to gain followers, even when you aren’t trying that hard. There are people who follow everyone even if they don’t know you, so right away you can see people following you for no real reason. Those types of followers tend to follow everyone they see other people following so as soon as a few follow you, next thing you know ten times more follow you because of it. Then if you yourself follow a few people, those people plus all of their followers sometimes follow you back.

My daughter had a Facebook page for her dog that racked up thousands of followers. She wasn’t even posting anything new on it anymore and it was still gaining followers last time she checked.

Also I signed up on a photography app recently, and literally before I added any pictures or into to my profile I had 5 followers.

Many of these types of followers are actually hoping to sell you something and so they literally follow anyone and everyone.

As for your girl, most girls I know her age have thousands of followers but don’t really care or think it means anything.

But as for your feelings about all of this...I love it that she has cracked your hard shell and made you feel at all. 🙂


----------



## Ynot

Oh crap, I can see this leading to another RD meltdown, where he lashes out at anyone who cautions him to keep it together.


----------



## RandomDude

bkyln309 said:


> Honestly I think Random Dude is feeding his ego by all the boasting on her looks and followers. RD you seem to have low esteem. Be careful! She doesnt have thousands of followers on her looks alone. She is encouraging the behavior.


Well, flattered you have such a low opinion of me.



Faithful Wife said:


> The thing with followers is not a big deal and doesn’t mean anything. It is quite easy and quick to gain followers, even when you aren’t trying that hard. There are people who follow everyone even if they don’t know you, so right away you can see people following you for no real reason. Those types of followers tend to follow everyone they see other people following so as soon as a few follow you, next thing you know ten times more follow you because of it. Then if you yourself follow a few people, those people plus all of their followers sometimes follow you back.
> 
> My daughter had a Facebook page for her dog that racked up thousands of followers. She wasn’t even posting anything new on it anymore and it was still gaining followers last time she checked.
> 
> Also I signed up on a photography app recently, and literally before I added any pictures or into to my profile I had 5 followers.
> 
> Many of these types of followers are actually hoping to sell you something and so they literally follow anyone and everyone.
> 
> As for your girl, most girls I know her age have thousands of followers but don’t really care or think it means anything.
> 
> But as for your feelings about all of this...I love it that she has cracked your hard shell and made you feel at all. 🙂


Bandwagon effect eh? I teased her about actually trying to get more followers, so then I'll have a 'social media influencer' to aid in marketing in the future lol

I'm hoping that's the case, that her instagram just got somewhat viral. She showed me it, its mostly random stuff like food. The friend of mine who had less than a thousand had lots of model shots. My girlfriend's is quite innocent hence never understood why she got such numbers.


----------



## 269370

Ynot said:


> Oh crap, I can see this leading to another RD meltdown, where he lashes out at anyone who cautions him to keep it together.



Yeah, it’s funny that jealousy and possessiveness is being encouraged. Every psychologist and relationship counsellor knows that those traits or symptoms in a relationship don’t end well, as countless cases have shown.

Women (generally) like confident and secure men. Letting these feelings take hold of you is the exact opposite. Plus a woman shouldn’t feel she needs to give reasons for you to be jealous (unless she herself is insecure, has low self esteem and needs excessive male attention to compensate for that).

Having said that, there’s nothing wrong with showing care and affection. But there is a fine line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Ynot said:


> Oh crap, I can see this leading to another RD meltdown, where he lashes out at anyone who cautions him to keep it together.


Still not over the past I see. Move on bro.


----------



## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Yeah, it’s funny that jealousy and possessiveness is being encouraged. Every psychologist and relationship counsellor knows that those traits or symptoms in a relationship don’t end well, as countless cases have shown.
> 
> Women (generally) like confident and secure men. Letting these feelings take hold of you is the exact opposite. Plus a woman shouldn’t feel she needs to give reasons for you to be jealous (unless she herself is insecure, has low self esteem and needs excessive male attention to compensate for that).
> 
> Having said that, there’s nothing wrong with showing care and affection. But there is a fine line.


Why not? Are we all to be so indifferent when a spouse gets hit on by others? When others push past the boundaries of your relationship? Isn't jealousy a natural emotion that is actually healthy as long as it's not overboard?

Besides it's not like my girlfriend goes out of her way to tell me she has guys hitting on her every day or how many followers she has. I found out naturally, and cases like this I was shocked as I didn't expect it.


----------



## john117

Thousands of followers, lolz. I spot checked a few of my kids friends on Instagram, and the highest was 900, a young woman who has been blessed with great looks, great wit, and lots of money to travel and post interesting stuff. 

If your average young lady can gather several thousand followers by posting random pictures, I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## RandomDude

john117 said:


> Thousands of followers, lolz. I spot checked a few of my kids friends on Instagram, and the highest was 900, a young woman who has been blessed with great looks, great wit, and lots of money to travel and post interesting stuff.
> 
> If your average young lady can gather several thousand followers by posting random pictures, I haven't seen it yet.


Yeah so you can understand why I'm like WTF, unless we are just clueless as FW claims it's quite common.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Thousands of followers, lolz. I spot checked a few of my kids friends on Instagram, and the highest was 900, a young woman who has been blessed with great looks, great wit, and lots of money to travel and post interesting stuff.
> 
> If your average young lady can gather several thousand followers by posting random pictures, I haven't seen it yet.


Hmm so you haven’t seen it but I have. Sooooo it means you are correct?

I could give several examples. But since you haven’t seen them they don’t exist? 

Umm...they do exist. It is quite common.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmm so you haven’t seen it but I have. Sooooo it means you are correct?
> 
> I could give several examples. But since you haven’t seen them they don’t exist?
> 
> Umm...they do exist. It is quite common.


I don't even have an instagram. Maybe I should make one and see for myself lol

Sometimes I wonder if I'm too old school, hell I didn't even get a smartphone until someone got one for me because they couldn't stand seeing me with my brick anymore 

Can work just fine without all these gadgets like Ipads and crap too, now the millennials can't live without them.


----------



## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmm so you haven’t seen it but I have. Sooooo it means you are correct?
> 
> I could give several examples. But since you haven’t seen them they don’t exist?
> 
> Umm...they do exist. It is quite common.


I don't doubt it's common. I just don't see how a rather young lady that does not have a "hook", ie an unusual hobby, pet, activities, or - imho - spends endless amounts of time to prep for the inevitable look at me selfie, can get to multiple thousands...


----------



## 269370

RandomDude said:


> Why not? Are we all to be so indifferent when a spouse gets hit on by others? When others push past the boundaries of your relationship? Isn't jealousy a natural emotion that is actually healthy as long as it's not overboard?
> 
> 
> 
> Besides it's not like my girlfriend goes out of her way to tell me she has guys hitting on her every day or how many followers she has. I found out naturally, and cases like this I was shocked as I didn't expect it.




Yes. I didn’t say jealousy wasn’t natural. However what matters most is whether you feel deep inside that she is ‘yours’ (in a positive, non possessive way). 
It wouldn’t matter to me if my wife got hit by men which she does), what matters to me would be how she deals with it or whether it is in her personality to crave for that type of affection. I can tell that all that matters to her, is the reaction and affection she gets from ME and how she sees herself, not how the world sees her. I always loved this about her. She knows her self worth and nobody and nothing can shake this or take a piece out of it.

I obviously don’t know what your gf is like (and it doesn’t sound like she is superficial) but I always steered clear of that type of personality that likes attention and outside validation. 
Good to have fun with (if you were so inclined), 
but not relationship material and just too high maintenance for anything more serious. Obviously a huge generalisation but you have to start sorting somewhere.

But lets forget theoretical: what do you think might happen with her Instagram followers or men flirting with her, on worst case scenario?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> I don't doubt it's common. I just don't see how a rather young lady that does not have a "hook", ie an unusual hobby, pet, activities, or - imho - spends endless amounts of time to prep for the inevitable look at me selfie, can get to multiple thousands...


It is a strange phenomenon, but is very common.


----------



## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Yes. I didn’t say jealousy wasn’t natural. However what matters most is whether you feel deep inside that she is ‘yours’ (in a positive, non possessive way).
> It wouldn’t matter to me if my wife got hit by men which she does), what matters to me would be how she deals with it or whether it is in her personality to crave for that type of affection. I can tell that all that matters to her, is the reaction and affection she gets from ME and how she sees herself, not how the world sees her. I always loved this about her. She knows her self worth and nobody and nothing can shake this or take a piece out of it.
> 
> I obviously don’t know what your gf is like (and it doesn’t sound like she is superficial) but I always steered clear of that type of personality that likes attention and outside validation.
> Good to have fun with (if you were so inclined),
> but not relationship material and just too high maintenance for anything more serious. Obviously a huge generalisation but you have to start sorting somewhere.
> 
> But lets forget theoretical: what do you think might happen with her Instagram followers or men flirting with her, on worst case scenario?


She is mine, and I trust her in that. Like your wife, she cares only about the reaction and affection from me and not the world. She is also very humble as she does not wish to be like many other women who become entitled due to their charms. When I praise her it's always mine, she never praises herself. 

For instagram well I don't even know how the thing even works to be honest. For men flirting with her at her uni or at work I'm getting desensitised to it now over the months, flirting with her in front of me or touching her and definitely going to be in his way. If he pushes it, then would need to educate him about boundaries in a language that everyone understands. I guess you can use your imagination what that is.

Doesn't stop me overthinking sometimes though. I don't always share my insecurities with her but when I do she doesn't seem fazzed about it, flattered actually. Nor am I fazzed about her insecurities, and it shows me she cares. We don't control each other or tell each other don't do this, don't do that. Well she does nag when it comes to my health and speeding - which surprisingly to me - I appreciate, where as for anyone else I would have been like "oh fk off, I do what I want and I don't care how you feel about it".

It's this experience that I always wanted - to feel that is - that also makes me wonder why jealousy/insecurity is all so bad. Why do people have to be hardasses all the time? Like ok, alot of women would be turned off by it, but if they are turned off by a man having actual emotions then is that really the type of woman you want who won't love and cherish you at your weakest moments?


----------



## ReformedHubby

bkyln309 said:


> Honestly I think Random Dude is feeding his ego by all the boasting on her looks and followers. RD you seem to have low esteem. Be careful! She doesnt have thousands of followers on her looks alone. She is encouraging the behavior.


I am going to play devil's advocate. When I first got separated I was very, and I mean very shallow. All I cared about was if they were hot and if they were attracted to me. The woman I ended up dating was stunning. She looked like she was ripped off the page of a Playboy magazine. In any case she got all kinds of attention all the time. I had never seen anything like it before or since. My current girlfriend gets hit on, but nothing like her, she was unique. Some people just have something that drives the opposite sex absolutely crazy. Everything about this women screamed sex. Its hard to explain, she had a presence. I think my girlfriend is prettier based on photos, but something about my ex-girlfriend was smoldering. I think RD's girlfriend also has that "it" factor.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Why not? Are we all to be so indifferent when a spouse gets hit on by others? When others push past the boundaries of your relationship? Isn't jealousy a natural emotion that is actually healthy as long as it's not overboard?
> 
> Besides it's not like my girlfriend goes out of her way to tell me she has guys hitting on her every day or how many followers she has. I found out naturally, and cases like this I was shocked as I didn't expect it.


Yes it is normal and endearing to be possessive and a little jealous. 

I know that in relationships where I felt no jealousy or possessiveness, in those cases I really did not feel that deeply about the person. 

And in relationships where someone displays excessive jealousy and possessiveness that is not warranted, that doesn’t mean their feelings are so deep, it means they are truly just insecure. Sometimes it even means THEY are cheating.

Your level of possessiveness as you are describing it here is the endearing type.


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Still not over the past I see. Move on bro.


hadn't given it a second thought until I saw others telling you to be careful, but I am glad you are over it. It didn't bother me one way or the other.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I know that in relationships where I felt no jealousy or possessiveness, in those cases I really did not feel that deeply about the person.


:iagree: I totally get this. I now know to use jealousy as a benchmark. Regardless of what happens in my current relationship, if I am with someone and I never get jealous, I'll know the level of attraction and emotional attachment isn't where I would like it to be. I wouldn't expect this level of attraction immediately, but after a few months I will know.


----------



## Haiku

Ynot said:


> I already acknowledge that 80% of the population may be carriers!


Good grief, I hope someone has pointed out the difference between HSV1 and HSV2.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes it is normal and endearing to be possessive and a little jealous.
> 
> I know that in relationships where I felt no jealousy or possessiveness, in those cases I really did not feel that deeply about the person.
> 
> And in relationships where someone displays excessive jealousy and possessiveness that is not warranted, that doesn’t mean their feelings are so deep, it means they are truly just insecure. Sometimes it even means THEY are cheating.
> 
> Your level of possessiveness as you are describing it here is the endearing type.





ReformedHubby said:


> :iagree: I totally get this. I now know to use jealousy as a benchmark. Regardless of what happens in my current relationship, if I am with someone and I never get jealous, I'll know the level of attraction and emotional attachment isn't where I would like it to be. I wouldn't expect this level of attraction immediately, but after a few months I will know.


Exactly! ^_^


----------



## Haiku

We divorced four years ago and I still haven’t dated. I’m not avoiding or looking for it. I’m actually personally content being alone at this point in life. Perhaps we find some of the best people when we’re not looking.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Haiku said:


> We divorced four years ago and I still haven’t dated. I’m not avoiding or looking for it. I’m actually personally content being alone at this point in life. Perhaps we find some of the best people when we’re not looking.


My ex h hasn’t dated either. He is content and focused on himself. He has traveled the world with friends since we divorced. He is still my best friend and I admire him so much.


----------



## Haiku

Faithful Wife said:


> My ex h hasn’t dated either. He is content and focused on himself. He has traveled the world with friends since we divorced. He is still my best friend and I admire him so much.


My former wife and I split amicably and remain friends too. She’s dated quite a bit at first but has been in a stable relationship (cohabiting) for over a year now. It looks good for them! 

Work is consuming but that may change in the next 12 months so we’ll see then. I’d like to visit Japan (springtime for the Apple & cherry blossoms), Indonesia, Poland, Russia, Dubai, and Central America. Perhaps I’ll take time off to travel a bit or work a decade or so longer and stop altogether. 

Since I have no ties anywhere there’s some preliminary thoughts bumping around in my gourd to live out of the country for a while, but they are so vague and undeveloped.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

I agree with you Haiku.

The longer I am single, the more content it is. I don't want to marry someone just for companionship like some of my friends did. I am content being with myself, and if there are times I do want to be with someone, I can find that. But I like living alone and I like being able to do exactly what I want in my life.

I have also thought about working abroad for awhile. But mainly I have been thinking about buying a beach front condo and just living life the way I want to live it.


----------



## Haiku

Hope Shimmers said:


> The longer I am single, the more content it is. I don't want to marry someone just for companionship like some of my friends did. I am content being with myself, and if there are times I do want to be with someone, I can find that. But I like living alone and I like being able to do exactly what I want in my life.


Honestly, I feel the same; thank you for verbalizing it. I wrestle at times with the notion that I’m becoming a tad selfish. If that’s what I’m becoming at the least no one suffers from it. 

I have some physical issues from the past that are starting to catch up with me. I have no desire to make someone a nurse as time keeps creeping. 😊 



Hope Shimmers said:


> I have also thought about working abroad for awhile. But mainly I have been thinking about buying a beach front condo and just living life the way I want to live it.


Give me a deserted slice of beach by the sorrowless sea...choppy or lying smooth and blue...azure skies, some books and magazines, and Internet! 😅


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Haiku said:


> Honestly, I feel the same; thank you for verbalizing it. I wrestle at times with the notion that I’m becoming a tad selfish. If that’s what I’m becoming at the least no one suffers from it.
> 
> I have some physical issues from the past that are starting to catch up with me. I have no desire to make someone a nurse as time keeps creeping. 😊


So what if you're selfish. In my case, I have lived life for someone else for the last 25 years at least. Now it's my time to live for me. 

However, if you do find a woman to settle down with permanently, she isn't going to think that taking care of you is a burden. 



Haiku said:


> Give me a deserted slice of beach by the sorrowless sea...choppy or lying smooth and blue...azure skies, some books and magazines, and Internet! 😅


That's exactly what I want too. I think about it more every day.


----------



## Haiku

Hope Shimmers said:


> I have lived life for someone else for the last....


Whew, spooky. My exact feeling and the catalyst for being content alone.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Haiku said:


> Whew, spooky. My exact feeling and the catalyst for being content alone.




I’m totally with you guys. I think IF I meet the right person, it will be someone who adds to my life instead of taking. But “adding” is different for everyone. I am a caregiver by nature so that isn’t necessarily a bad thing for some people. The main deal breaker for me is negativity...glass half empty sort of thing. 

However I am so content being by myself that if this is it, then I’m ok with that. 

Paradise is where you make it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

I don’t want to start a thread for this question so I’ll post it here. I’m newly single and think about dating quit a bit but am going to wait at least a year. With that said though I question how would a guy take it when he finds out I haven’t had sex in 9 years because it will be nine years by the time I start dating. I can’t even imagine how a man would react to that news? Is it a big deal or am I worried about nothing?


----------



## Haiku

Not said:


> I can’t even imagine how a man would react to that news? Is it a big deal or am I worried about nothing?


I wouldn’t think anything of it at all because I can relate. I’ve been celibate (is that the right word?) for almost five years now. Some might be scared you’ll break them in half. joke...joke...

Try not to let it trouble you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Not said:


> I don’t want to start a thread for this question so I’ll post it here. I’m newly single and think about dating quit a bit but am going to wait at least a year. With that said though I question how would a guy take it when he finds out I haven’t had sex in 9 years because it will be nine years by the time I start dating. I can’t even imagine how a man would react to that news? Is it a big deal or am I worried about nothing?


Ok I was set to respond to this then I thought of something else. Are you worried about what they might think when you start dating and they may pass, thinking it's too much work? Or were you asking from the point of view that you might want to have sex with them and they might be turned off by that?


----------



## Not

Haiku said:


> I wouldn’t think anything of it at all because I can relate. I’ve been celibate (is that the right word?) for almost five years now. Some might be scared you’ll break them in half. joke...joke...
> 
> Try not to let it trouble you.


Thank you for sharing your point of view Haiku. Your joke has crossed my mind! 😁


----------



## Not

stillfightingforus said:


> Ok I was set to respond to this then I thought of something else. Are you worried about what they might think when you start dating and they may pass, thinking it's too much work? Or were you asking from the point of view that you might want to have sex with them and they might be turned off by that?



Good questions! I think both. I don’t know, I guess I’m wondering if lack of current activity may somehow be a turn off in some way?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Not said:


> Good questions! I think both. I don’t know, I guess I’m wondering if lack of current activity may somehow be a turn off in some way?


My only concern for most guys is that they may see that as not a turn off in terms of an attraction turn off but a red flag to their own efforts that they either 1. think they may never get the chance to have sex with you or 2. that it will take too much work. 

That could eliminate some potential good mates. You would still get guys that 1. think they are so good they, see this as a challenge to get you to break your streak or 2. they have had a long cold streak themselves and value other things IN ADDITION to sex.

Hope that made sense, in summary, I don't think it will be a TURN OFF but it could TURN AWAY potential candidates that don't want to wait 9 years lol.


----------



## Ynot

Not said:


> I don’t want to start a thread for this question so I’ll post it here. I’m newly single and think about dating quit a bit but am going to wait at least a year. With that said though I question how would a guy take it when he finds out I haven’t had sex in 9 years because it will be nine years by the time I start dating. I can’t even imagine how a man would react to that news? Is it a big deal or am I worried about nothing?


Two thoughts come to mind. The first is that is Okay by me. I just got out a relationship with a woman who claimed to have not had sex in 15 years. She is a widow and her deceased husband could not have sex. She was pretty wild and definitely got into it.
The second thought is, Why? Some guys might want to dig deeper. If you hadn't had sex because you had no partner, then it probably wouldn't bother them. If it is because you didn't want to, then they might think you are LD. Some guys might be OK with that, others might decide to pass.
I think in your case it really depends on what the reason was and who the guy is. You only have control over the why and not the who. That is the case in every case. So just be honest and let the universe do its job.


----------



## minimalME

Not said:


> I don’t want to start a thread for this question so I’ll post it here. I’m newly single and think about dating quit a bit but am going to wait at least a year. With that said though* I question how would a guy take it when he finds out I haven’t had sex in 9 years because it will be nine years by the time I start dating*. I can’t even imagine how a man would react to that news? Is it a big deal or am I worried about nothing?


Your history is yours to share - or not. 

Why would you even give a second thought to a stranger's opinion about your sexual past? 

I realize that oversharing is in vogue right now, but your timeline is no one's business - until you choose to make it so. And if you open that door, then that's on you.

Personally, it would take a great deal of investment for a man to earn that sort of information.

Create the relational standards that are vital for you and that you want to live by. Anchor yourself in those, and don't let anyone pressure to do otherwise.


----------



## Not

Thank you for the responses. If I could leave out the details of my marriage/divorce and all it entailed when getting involved with a new person I’d rather do that but I know there will be questions and I truly don’t care to share any of it but know I will have to at some point if I find myself in a relationship that gets serious. Life would be so much easier if I could leave the past in the past but I know our pasts play a role in who we are today so sharing will have to happen. I would want to know the same things. 

The sex part though...I don’t want to scare them off lol!

Maybe waiting until a fabulous sex life with a new partner has already been established and then saying something would be best. Show them what I am and then tell that story.


----------



## RandomDude

Not said:


> Maybe waiting until a fabulous sex life with a new partner has already been established and then saying something would be best. Show them what I am and then tell that story.


Sounds like a plan. If they ask just tell them it's quite a personal question. Dates don't have know everything straight off the bat.


----------



## wilson

Not said:


> With that said though I question how would a guy take it when he finds out I haven’t had sex in 9 years because it will be nine years by the time I start dating.


No guy worth dating will ask how long since your last sexual encounter. The only guys I can imagine asking are oily, manboy, Axe-using players who you should dump as soon as the question comes out of their mouths. The only appropriate time that you would bring it up would be well into your relationship when you are deeply in love and you're telling him how you never thought you'd be this happy ever again.


----------



## ne9907

Hi all,
Checking in. I am still dating that one guy, we have our ups and downs and what nots, but now I am getting a bit cold feet since I really really like him and visualize our golden years together sitting down on our porch while we listen to the rain and thunder.

So I am Mexican American. Once upon a time when I was married and met some of my ex husband's family (his cousin)they were a bit vocal against my race statements like "dirty mexicans etc" just ignorant language. 

During this particular occasion, my ex and I had been married for about 2 years, we went to Oregon to visit his family. I was about 24 and totally in love. His cousin started bad mouthing my race, exh didnt say anything. He pretended he did not hear. I said nothing either. I always remembered this incident as a mark in our marriage. Perhaps I could have been more vocal and asked his cousin to stop but I did not. I expected my ex to do that... 

Fast forward to know. We go to the lake to meet up with my guy's brother, his brother's wife and brother's friends.
All was well, his brother drinks a lot.

Then his brother began being very low key prejudice against other races ( they are white) to include my own.
My guy did not let him, they both got a bit loud and argumentative and we ended up leaving the lake. 
They are now back to talking normally, my guy and his brother

I have never loved him as much as I did that night. I can defend myself, but I do love him for doing that. I was floored. I do not have a lot of people who see life the way I do and when I find them, I am amazed. 

That is it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> Thank you for the responses. If I could leave out the details of my marriage/divorce and all it entailed when getting involved with a new person I’d rather do that but I know there will be questions and I truly don’t care to share any of it but know I will have to at some point if I find myself in a relationship that gets serious. Life would be so much easier if I could leave the past in the past but I know our pasts play a role in who we are today so sharing will have to happen. I would want to know the same things.
> 
> The sex part though...I don’t want to scare them off lol!
> 
> Maybe waiting until a fabulous sex life with a new partner has already been established and then saying something would be best. Show them what I am and then tell that story.


I think that its very important to share what has gone on in your life with a new partner. Not disclosing your past would make it seem you were hiding something, and would possibly make a new person afraid of what may blow up in their face later. (not saying something would, but how are they to know that?) What makes you hesitate to share? Do you feel shame? You absolutely shouldn't. Maybe by the time you decide you are ready to date, you may feel more comfortable with the idea of opening up with your past to someone new.


----------



## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> Hi all,
> Checking in. I am still dating that one guy, we have our ups and downs and what nots, but now I am getting a bit cold feet since I really really like him and visualize our golden years together sitting down on our porch while we listen to the rain and thunder.
> 
> So I am Mexican American. Once upon a time when I was married and met some of my ex husband's family (his cousin)they were a bit vocal against my race statements like "dirty mexicans etc" just ignorant language.
> 
> During this particular occasion, my ex and I had been married for about 2 years, we went to Oregon to visit his family. I was about 24 and totally in love. His cousin started bad mouthing my race, exh didnt say anything. He pretended he did not hear. I said nothing either. I always remembered this incident as a mark in our marriage. Perhaps I could have been more vocal and asked his cousin to stop but I did not. I expected my ex to do that...
> 
> Fast forward to know. We go to the lake to meet up with my guy's brother, his brother's wife and brother's friends.
> All was well, his brother drinks a lot.
> 
> Then his brother began being very low key prejudice against other races ( they are white) to include my own.
> My guy did not let him, they both got a bit loud and argumentative and we ended up leaving the lake.
> They are now back to talking normally, my guy and his brother
> 
> I have never loved him as much as I did that night. I can defend myself, but I do love him for doing that. I was floored. I do not have a lot of people who see life the way I do and when I find them, I am amazed.
> 
> That is it.


You just need to put them in their place. 

Ex-wife and I did when we were an interracial couple. My girlfriend and I too, even though we are of the same race there's always folks in need of 'education'. Was about to educate someone recently too but girlfriend stopped me. Don't know why, was just going to walk past and kick his seat from under him so he would fall on his ass lol - oopsies!  And if he got pissed and attacked he would give me the license to educate him completely  Alas, girlfriend has better restraint than me.


----------



## Wolf1974

Not said:


> Thank you for the responses. If I could leave out the details of my marriage/divorce and all it entailed when getting involved with a new person I’d rather do that but I know there will be questions and I truly don’t care to share any of it but know I will have to at some point if I find myself in a relationship that gets serious. Life would be so much easier if I could leave the past in the past but I know our pasts play a role in who we are today so sharing will have to happen. I would want to know the same things.
> 
> The sex part though...I don’t want to scare them off lol!
> 
> Maybe waiting until a fabulous sex life with a new partner has already been established and then saying something would be best. Show them what I am and then tell that story.


It will scare some off others won’t care. Me I would need to know the reason why so if that’s not shared I may have to assume the worse and leave. I am high drive though and can’t really relate to someone who can go without sex for 9 years unless they have a great reason for it. Everyone is different. Just concentrate on what your comfortable with and being with people your compatible with. That’s all that matters. :smile2:


----------



## ReformedHubby

Last night was special and I didn't expect it to be. My girlfriend came over and we were hanging. I actually had work to do, I told her that but she wanted to hang anyway, fine by me, I like having her around, even if we are doing our own thing, so she was on her laptop on Facebook. Honestly I could care less about facebook, well lately a little jealous of it but I digress, what she did last night seriously melted my heart. I didn't ask her to do it, but she changed her status from single to "in a relationship", she then told me she loves me. Its so weird. That tiny little gesture meant so much to me. Ha, ha modern times....when you let everyone know, "you got a man". Yeah she got inundated with private messages afterwards. Many from friends back home, asking who is this guy. I will admit I got a kick out of the handful of guys writing her saying....I always liked you bla, bla, bla....is this guy really the one bla, bla, bla.....I was sitting right their reading the responses....yeah just FYI, if you're a guy and a woman you have a crush on changes her relationship status. Its too late to profess your feelings...she is very taken. And....likely her and her guy are sitting together laughing at your message if she just changed the status. Also, if you liked her and you have known her longer than I have, don't get mad at me antalk crap about me for realizing she is amazing and swooping her up. Also, if you're married shame on you for being like I'm unhappy in my marriage and I wish I was with you. Also a bird flip to the couple saying you were happy for her, but that you were hoping she would have been your "unicorn" Good Lord...I don't know what happens after death, but....if reincarnation is a thing, and I have to be a woman. Make me a plain jane, being an attractive woman is a burden and a PITA.

/End TAMS Singles Diary Entry


----------



## RandomDude

ReformedHubby said:


> Last night was special and I didn't expect it to be. My girlfriend came over and we were hanging. I actually had work to do, I told her that but she wanted to hang anyway, fine by me, I like having her around, even if we are doing our own thing, so she was on her laptop on Facebook. Honestly I could care less about facebook, well lately a little jealous of it but I digress, what she did last night seriously melted my heart. I didn't ask her to do it, but she changed her status from single to "in a relationship", she then told me she loves me. Its so weird. That tiny little gesture meant so much to me. Ha, ha modern times....when you let everyone know, "you got a man". Yeah she got inundated with private messages afterwards. Many from friends back home, asking who is this guy. I will admit I got a kick out of the handful of guys writing her saying....I always liked you bla, bla, bla....is this guy really the one bla, bla, bla.....I was sitting right their reading the responses....yeah just FYI, if you're a guy and a woman you have a crush on changes her relationship status. Its too late to profess your feelings...she is very taken. And....likely her and her guy are sitting together laughing at your message if she just changed the status. Also, if you liked her and you have known her longer than I have, don't get mad at me antalk crap about me for realizing she is amazing and swooping her up. Also, if you're married shame on you for being like I'm unhappy in my marriage and I wish I was with you. Also a bird flip to the couple saying you were happy for her, but that you were hoping she would have been your "unicorn" Good Lord...I don't know what happens after death, but....if reincarnation is a thing, and I have to be a woman. Make me a plain jane, being an attractive woman is a burden and a PITA.
> 
> /End TAMS Singles Diary Entry


Gawwww 

For the first time since marriage I also changed my relationship status to "in a relationship" tagging my girlfriend and vice versa. Kinda goes from official to really official at that point. It does get abit weird as people become rather curious. Awkward with ex-partners, may lose a few 'friends' in the process, but that's life. Worth it.


----------



## Lifescript

Hey guys,

Listen to this crap.

I’ve been dating this girl. Last night was going to be our 7th date. She tells me she has to make a quick stop at one of her friends apartment who is leaving back to her country tomorrow. I said ok no problem. So I drive her to her friends house. 30 mins passed by. She comes down and says she has no service up there and didn’t get my text asking how long she was going be. She noticed I was annoyed and asked if I was mad. I said can you please hurry up. I had made reservations at a place. She said ok just need to grab my purse and come back down. She goes up.

Another 30 mins passed and that’s when she came down with her friend. I waited an entire hour for her. I even began to think something had happened to her. She wasn’t getting my texts or answering my calls. 

I was beyond pissed and felt disrespected at her lack of consideration for my time. She said sorry when she got in the car. I said we are not going anywhere I’m dropping you home. I even thought of leaving but didn’t want to embarrass her in front of her friend. She begged me to stay and said sorry a lot but I left. I just knew I wasn’t going to have a good time and the night was ruined by her inconsideration. 

She texted me that is best we stop seeing each other because me leaving shows her I’m not capable of dealing with issues the way she would want me to in a relationship. I said I can deal with issues just not ok with people being inconsiderate with my time.

What bothers me most is she came down, saw I was annoyed and that it had been 30 mins already went back up and took another 30 mins to come back down.

She explained another friend arrived who she had not seen in a long time and that she lost track of time. I told her if she wanted to see her friend I understand and we shouldn’t have agreed to meet. She needed to tell me she couldn’t see me last night and go see her friend. Not drag me along and make me wait an hr there like an idiot. 

What would you guys have done in this situation? Maybe I shouldn’t have left but I was just too angry to have a good night with her at that point.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LS, I don't blame you one bit for getting mad or for ending the evening. What she did was inconsiderate and out of line. I cant imagine letting my date just sit there in his car for an hour while I chat with someone else, that is just beyond rude. And she got mad at YOU? Pffft. You dodged a bullet with this one.


----------



## Lifescript

3Xnocharm said:


> LS, I don't blame you one bit for getting mad or for ending the evening. What she did was inconsiderate and out of line. I cant imaging letting my date just sit there in his car for an hour while I chat with someone else, that is just beyond rude. And she got mad at YOU? Pffft. You dodged a bullet with this one.




Hey 3X,

I couldn’t believe that was happening to me. To put me in that situation. Unbelievable.


----------



## wilson

Lifescript said:


> She texted me that is best we stop seeing each other because me leaving shows her I’m not capable of dealing with issues the way she would want me to in a relationship. I said I can deal with issues just not ok with people being inconsiderate with my time.


LOL! The nerve of her. "Lifescript, we should break up because you're not happy being my chauffeur waiting endlessly while I do whatever I like." Oh boy, you dodged a bullet on this one. I would suspect this kind of inconsideration would manifest itself in other areas of your relationship as well.


----------



## ne9907

Something odd happened yesterday

Lets recap a bit.
When I was married, ex and I had a lot of mutual friends that I unfriended when I left. After a year, one of our mutual friends, who was his first sent me a FB invite and I accepted.
We did not say much at all. We liked each other's post etc. Btw I have been his FB friend for 4 years. 
So yesterday morning I woke up to find a FB message from him to me (he lives 1000 miles away). The message was one of those silly FB videos that people send to each other, the man in the video just kept saying "you, you are awesome!"

I wrote "aw, thank you J. Hope you are well."
He wrote "I am well, how are you?"

I said I am good. I am actually really great. THank you.

THen he wrote back "makes me happy, your happy"

that sent a small shiver down my spine.... 
because once we divorced, ex wanted to stay in touch, I did not. Finally he sent sent me a message and said "I hope you are happy because if you are happy, I am happy"

I do not know how to proceed. I am thinking about unfriending this person. 
Just strange behavior on his part. I do not want ex near me, not even my online persona.

Any thoughts?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ne, don't respond any more if that makes you uncomfortable. Are you worried this is the XH and not the friend?


----------



## Lifescript

Seems odd and you are right to have radar up. Is unfriendly this friend if you think is the ex.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript, I would have left her there and driven away by the first 30 minutes.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> Lifescript, I would have left her there and driven away by the first 30 minutes.




I was trying my very best to be patient but couldn’t anymore.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Last night was special and I didn't expect it to be. My girlfriend came over and we were hanging. I actually had work to do, I told her that but she wanted to hang anyway, fine by me, I like having her around, even if we are doing our own thing, so she was on her laptop on Facebook. Honestly I could care less about facebook, well lately a little jealous of it but I digress, what she did last night seriously melted my heart. I didn't ask her to do it, but she changed her status from single to "in a relationship", she then told me she loves me. Its so weird. That tiny little gesture meant so much to me. Ha, ha modern times....when you let everyone know, "you got a man". Yeah she got inundated with private messages afterwards. Many from friends back home, asking who is this guy. I will admit I got a kick out of the handful of guys writing her saying....I always liked you bla, bla, bla....is this guy really the one bla, bla, bla.....I was sitting right their reading the responses....yeah just FYI, if you're a guy and a woman you have a crush on changes her relationship status. Its too late to profess your feelings...she is very taken. And....likely her and her guy are sitting together laughing at your message if she just changed the status. Also, if you liked her and you have known her longer than I have, don't get mad at me antalk crap about me for realizing she is amazing and swooping her up. Also, if you're married shame on you for being like I'm unhappy in my marriage and I wish I was with you. Also a bird flip to the couple saying you were happy for her, but that you were hoping she would have been your "unicorn" Good Lord...I don't know what happens after death, but....if reincarnation is a thing, and I have to be a woman. Make me a plain jane, being an attractive woman is a burden and a PITA.
> 
> /End TAMS Singles Diary Entry


It is endearing to hear how you are feeling about this girl. ❤

The burden and pain in the ass thing...it’s also cool you are seeing this and understand it. It’s just another side of the human experience to incorporate into overall understanding. Which helps us appreciate each other by tearing down our assumptions and being open.

Do you also notice that the more you care about her, the more beautiful she is? I swear that my ex h made me feel that I was more and more beautiful to him by the day, and I know I felt that way about him too. One time, we were at an outdoor music festival with thousands of people of all shapes and sizes but plenty of scantily clad beautiful women. He took a look across the crowd and contemplated, then said to me “no one here even compares to you, honey” and I knew he meant it completely. His love blinders were solid. It was so sweet. I knew and felt that change came over him from batchelor to committed man. And it just got deeper and more fun for us both over time. Our other issues never interfered with that passion and devotion. 

You’re on a good path!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lifescript said:


> Bananapeel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lifescript, I would have left her there and driven away by the first 30 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying my very best to be patient but couldn’t anymore.
Click to expand...

I don’t know any more about this girl, was she otherwise a nice person? I think it was unfortunate that she left you hanging but I can see how something like this can happen. She should have canceled your date and just saw her friend. But I’m not sure it was a **** test? It may have been bone headed but innocent poor planning and execution on her part. Is she kind of dingy in general?

I dated a guy who would talk to anyone and would end up in half hour conversations with anyone, anywhere. This was annoying to me but I found out how to work with him on it or simply not go with him anywhere that I didn’t want to get stuck. So he invited me to run to Home Depot with him? Answer is no because I know he will be talking to the cashier, the floor staff, and the electrical staff for half an hour each. 

I accommodated it because I liked him enough and he was a good guy, just different than me. 

Did you like this girl a lot? Or just meh?


----------



## Lifescript

I like her a lot. 

I just don’t understand how in the world someone leaves someone else waiting an hour. This after she came back down to say she didn’t have service, saw I was annoyed and then went up again just to get her purse. 

She is not like this. It came to me as a shock that she would do this.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife;19653109
I dated a guy who would talk to anyone and would end up in half hour conversations with anyone said:


> LoL, this is me 100 percent!!! I talk to everyone, anywhere, all the time. Absolutely fascinated by people, and most people I talk to like me too. I remember once I was traveling with a retired general that worked for me. When our plane landed I literally spent forever talking to some random dude polishing the floor the moment our plane landed. My colleague wasn't annoyed, after my conversation he looked at me and told me that I was a man that truly understood what real leadership is all about. Coming from a man like him that meant a lot. It actually made me understand why he chose to work for me when he literally could have worked for anyone. For more money even. I have always loved making every person feel like they are the most important person in the room. My current girlfriend loves this about me, says I am the only man she has ever been with that people gravitate towards more than her. Its not something I am trying to do, I just love people...all of them. When single again my friends were amazed at how many women I would meet, but what they never realized is I honestly was never focused on the women when we went out, I wasn't looking for a way in, I literally enjoyed talking to everyone the same. I know pick up culture, its a lifestyle that recommends playing a numbers game, and treating people like objects. Discarding those you can't use. The reality is you get much further and reap far more rewards when you treat everyone special.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> I like her a lot.
> 
> I just don’t understand how in the world someone leaves someone else waiting an hour. This after she came back down to say she didn’t have service, saw I was annoyed and then went up again just to get her purse.
> 
> She is not like this. It came to me as a shock that she would do this.


People are really good hiding who they actually are for the first 3-6 months of a relationship. So don't be surprised when someone shows their true colors and they are different than what you expected. I consider myself very good at reading people but have been blown away at how some people that seem like responsible/caring adults can act like self centered B's. Do yourself a favor and accept her suggestion of a breakup and don't chase after her. If she realizes she was stupid and really wants you back, then she needs to be the one to recognize that her behavior was inappropriate and contact you to apologize.


----------



## Not

Lifescript said:


> I like her a lot.
> 
> I just don’t understand how in the world someone leaves someone else waiting an hour. This after she came back down to say she didn’t have service, saw I was annoyed and then went up again just to get her purse.
> 
> She is not like this. It came to me as a shock that she would do this.


What I don’t understand is why she didn’t invite you in with her, especially after the first 30 minutes, instead of leaving you out there waiting by yourself.


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> I think that its very important to share what has gone on in your life with a new partner. Not disclosing your past would make it seem you were hiding something, and would possibly make a new person afraid of what may blow up in their face later. (not saying something would, but how are they to know that?) What makes you hesitate to share? Do you feel shame? You absolutely shouldn't. Maybe by the time you decide you are ready to date, you may feel more comfortable with the idea of opening up with your past to someone new.


Yeah, I know, sharing will have to happen. Maybe in a year or so the past won’t feel like so much yuck. Everyone who knows me thinks I got divorced because xH and I just grew apart because that’s what I’ve told them. I really don’t care to talk about it all with anyone.


----------



## Not

Wolf1974 said:


> It will scare some off others won’t care. Me I would need to know the reason why so if that’s not shared I may have to assume the worse and leave. I am high drive though and can’t really relate to someone who can go without sex for 9 years unless they have a great reason for it. Everyone is different. Just concentrate on what your comfortable with and being with people your compatible with. That’s all that matters. :smile2:



Thanks for sharing your perspective Wolf, I appreciate it. I’m actually high drive also! But life had other plans for me in that department. PE, lack of respect and finally outright hostility were the reasons.


----------



## Not

wilson said:


> No guy worth dating will ask how long since your last sexual encounter. The only guys I can imagine asking are oily, manboy, Axe-using players who you should dump as soon as the question comes out of their mouths. The only appropriate time that you would bring it up would be well into your relationship when you are deeply in love and you're telling him how you never thought you'd be this happy ever again.


I do wonder about that, the men that would ask that is. I think it’s something I would be curious about if I met a divorced man.


----------



## Lifescript

Not said:


> What I don’t understand is why she didn’t invite you in with her, especially after the first 30 minutes, instead of leaving you out there waiting by yourself.




I’ve been thinking the same thing.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Listen to this crap.
> 
> I’ve been dating this girl. Last night was going to be our 7th date. She tells me she has to make a quick stop at one of her friends apartment who is leaving back to her country tomorrow. I said ok no problem. So I drive her to her friends house. 30 mins passed by. She comes down and says she has no service up there and didn’t get my text asking how long she was going be. She noticed I was annoyed and asked if I was mad. I said can you please hurry up. I had made reservations at a place. She said ok just need to grab my purse and come back down. She goes up.
> 
> Another 30 mins passed and that’s when she came down with her friend. I waited an entire hour for her. I even began to think something had happened to her. She wasn’t getting my texts or answering my calls.
> 
> I was beyond pissed and felt disrespected at her lack of consideration for my time. She said sorry when she got in the car. I said we are not going anywhere I’m dropping you home. I even thought of leaving but didn’t want to embarrass her in front of her friend. She begged me to stay and said sorry a lot but I left. I just knew I wasn’t going to have a good time and the night was ruined by her inconsideration.
> 
> *She texted me that is best we stop seeing each other because me leaving shows her I’m not capable of dealing with issues the way she would want me to in a relationship.* I said I can deal with issues just not ok with people being inconsiderate with my time.
> 
> What bothers me most is she came down, saw I was annoyed and that it had been 30 mins already went back up and took another 30 mins to come back down.
> 
> She explained another friend arrived who she had not seen in a long time and that she lost track of time. I told her if she wanted to see her friend I understand and we shouldn’t have agreed to meet. She needed to tell me she couldn’t see me last night and go see her friend. Not drag me along and make me wait an hr there like an idiot.
> 
> What would you guys have done in this situation? Maybe I shouldn’t have left but I was just too angry to have a good night with her at that point.


Unapologetic and she initiated the breakup. End it. No other options.


----------



## Bananapeel

I've been dating a woman for a little while now and I made a really big relationship step (at least for me). I gave her a drawer in my guest bathroom so she can sleep over and not have to bring everything each time. We're actually a really bad match for each other on paper (emotional vs logical, artsy vs scientific, liberal vs conservative, etc.) but still have a great time together.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, this is me 100 percent!!! I talk to everyone, anywhere, all the time. Absolutely fascinated by people, and most people I talk to like me too. I remember once I was traveling with a retired general that worked for me. When our plane landed I literally spent forever talking to some random dude polishing the floor the moment our plane landed. My colleague wasn't annoyed, after my conversation he looked at me and told me that I was a man that truly understood what real leadership is all about. Coming from a man like him that meant a lot. It actually made me understand why he chose to work for me when he literally could have worked for anyone. For more money even. I have always loved making every person feel like they are the most important person in the room. My current girlfriend loves this about me, says I am the only man she has ever been with that people gravitate towards more than her. Its not something I am trying to do, I just love people...all of them. When single again my friends were amazed at how many women I would meet, but what they never realized is I honestly was never focused on the women when we went out, I wasn't looking for a way in, I literally enjoyed talking to everyone the same. I know pick up culture, its a lifestyle that recommends playing a numbers game, and treating people like objects. Discarding those you can't use. The reality is you get much further and reap far more rewards when you treat everyone special.


Yes, this is how my guy was. He was like an extremely friendly golden retriever. He would go bounding off to say hello to everyone. Truly happy to see and meet ANYONE and assumed the best of all of them, until or unless they did something that didn't set right with him. Then in those cases...snarl, woof.

If they were friendly and happy, he would stay there totally engaged in conversation as long as they were. It could go on forever, close down the stores, the bars, the concert, whatever. Just depending on what the other party was up to, he might actually wander off with them to talk more somewhere.

I found it sweet...but being introverted myself, I couldn't stand this. It caused me soooo much anxiety. I dislike talking to strangers, but I especially disliked it around him because he and the strangers would get into some topic and then start including me in their conversation, making it seem like it would be rude for me not to join in. So he and the stranger would be there with their happy golden retriever faces waiting for my reply to their joining me in the convo....while I was cringing inside and feeling like a trapped feral cat, wishing I could jump right over the top of them both and climb a tree and escape.

Since there was no stopping him from doing his golden retriever thing, I just stopped going out in public with him except when totally necessary. And even when necessary, I found ways to escape. For instance, in a restaurant, tell him what I'd like to order then head to the restroom as soon as the server comes to the table. That way he will order for us both, then have his half hour conversation with her, meanwhile I'm playing on my phone in the bathroom. When I come back he may still be in a conversation, I slide in to my seat still looking at my phone so they will not include me. Usually worked.


----------



## wilson

> LoL, this is me 100 percent!!! I talk to everyone, anywhere, all the time. Absolutely fascinated by people, and most people I talk to like me too. I remember once I was traveling with a retired general that worked for me. When our plane landed I literally spent forever talking to some random dude polishing the floor the moment our plane landed.


As an introvert, I'm begging you, and all people like this, to please consider if the other person is actually interested or is just being polite. For example, there are days I dread taking my dog for a walk because of neighbors who will not stop talking to me. They're perfectly nice people and talk about interesting things, but I just want to take my dog for a walk and go home. I don't want to stand there for 30 minutes having a chat. It's gotten to the point that I know what times they walk their dogs, leave for work, work in the yard, etc. and I avoid going by their houses at those times. If I run into them, my first thought is if I can turn down a side street and avoid them. If that's not possible, I have to make up an excuse to break away as soon as possible.

It's fine to enjoy chatting with people, but please carefully consider if the other person is really enjoying it as much as you are.


----------



## Faithful Wife

wilson said:


> As an introvert, I'm begging you, and all people like this, to please consider if the other person is actually interested or is just being polite. For example, there are days I dread taking my dog for a walk because of neighbors who will not stop talking to me. They're perfectly nice people and talk about interesting things, but I just want to take my dog for a walk and go home. I don't want to stand there for 30 minutes having a chat. It's gotten to the point that I know what times they walk their dogs, leave for work, work in the yard, etc. and I avoid going by their houses at those times. If I run into them, my first thought is if I can turn down a side street and avoid them. If that's not possible, I have to make up an excuse to break away as soon as possible.
> 
> It's fine to enjoy chatting with people, but please carefully consider if the other person is really enjoying it as much as you are.


This is me too. I avoid my neighbors because I just don't want to talk to anyone when I am out in my yard, or packing things in and out of my car, or taking a walk. So I peek out and make sure no one is around before I go out of my house. I'll sneak out the back if anyone is in front, or out the front if anyone is near the back. It is nothing personal at all. It wouldn't matter if it was one neighbor versus another, they are all just people I don't want to talk to.

In the event that I am trapped and can't get away and have to converse with someone, I don't blame them, they don't realize I am trying to avoid them. They are nice and polite and I stand there and chat for as little time as I can get away with, nicely and politely.

I don't think it is anything extroverted people can understand. They mean no harm and enjoy it so much themselves, and many of them believe they are "bringing you out of your shell" if you are introverted. They don't realize we don't want to be brought out of our shells, that we are happy and snug in here. Since they can't imagine being happy without being extroverted, they see us in our little shells and think we want out. It makes sense, coming from their perspective.

Fewer people are introverted than extroverted, and extroverted people tend to not understand introversion whereas we introverts have no choice but to understand extroverts...since they are everywhere, trying to pry our shells open.


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> As an introvert, I'm begging you, and all people like this, to please consider if the other person is actually interested or is just being polite. For example, there are days I dread taking my dog for a walk because of neighbors who will not stop talking to me. They're perfectly nice people and talk about interesting things, but I just want to take my dog for a walk and go home. I don't want to stand there for 30 minutes having a chat. It's gotten to the point that I know what times they walk their dogs, leave for work, work in the yard, etc. and I avoid going by their houses at those times. If I run into them, my first thought is if I can turn down a side street and avoid them. If that's not possible, I have to make up an excuse to break away as soon as possible.
> 
> It's fine to enjoy chatting with people, but please carefully consider if the other person is really enjoying it as much as you are.


I'm not an introvert, but I say yes to this. A talker needs to become very good at reading cues and body language. I have a couple of friends who are like this, and I can see when the person they are talking to starts pulling back, their eyes glaze over, they look at their watch, the smile becomes pained......and my friends just keep talking. As the mother of 2 big time introverts, it makes me uncomfortable to watch it lol

I like to talk, so I might frequently lob a remark at a stranger about their cool shoes or what is in their cart. But unless they lob back, I don't continue.


----------



## Lifescript

My date is not an introvert but I do most of the talking when we go out so this doesn’t apply to her. She just got too into conversations with her very good friend who was visiting from overseas and acted very rude and disrespectful in the process. 

She is still apologizing. I still can’t wrap my head around it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lifescript said:


> My date is not an introvert but I do most of the talking when we go out so this doesn’t apply to her. She just got too into conversations with her very good friend who was visiting from overseas and acted very rude and disrespectful in the process.
> 
> She is still apologizing. I still can’t wrap my head around it.


If you like her, give her a mulligan and see what happens. Fool me twice, and all that.


----------



## Lifescript

Faithful Wife said:


> If you like her, give her a mulligan and see what happens. Fool me twice, and all that.




I have given it some thought to give her another chance but what I don’t like is that sometimes she’s apologizing and then sometimes she’s acting as if I don’t have the right to feel the way I didn’t say that she expected me to be more patient and handle things differently. 

Reminds me of my ex-wife who would say she was sorry but then little by little she would start saying that she didn’t do anything wrong and backtracking on her apologies.


----------



## Bananapeel

@Lifescript - Then it's time to pull back. Either she has the relationship style you accept, which is one of mutual respect and care, or she doesn't. If she's waffling now on her apologies then cut your dating effort with her down to nothing and let her do all the contact/pursuing so she has to put in the effort to win you back rather than the other way around. She should initiate 100% of the texts/calls. You should also keep your dates to doing nothing other than her coming over to your place to cook dinner and hang out for the next few times until she proves she's worth your time and money. So if she calls and wants to go out just tell her you've had a busy week and want to stay in, but you'd welcome her to come over and bring a bottle of wine and you'll cook dinner together or watch a movie at home, etc. Then use this time to judge her by her actions not her words. If she is putting in the effort to see you and build a relationship and you want to keep seeing her then do so. But if she is all talk and no action then dump her and move on.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

wilson said:


> *As an introvert, I'm begging you, and all people like this, to please consider if the other person is actually interested or is just being polite. * For example, there are days I dread taking my dog for a walk because of neighbors who will not stop talking to me. They're perfectly nice people and talk about interesting things, but I just want to take my dog for a walk and go home. I don't want to stand there for 30 minutes having a chat. It's gotten to the point that I know what times they walk their dogs, leave for work, work in the yard, etc. and I avoid going by their houses at those times. If I run into them, my first thought is if I can turn down a side street and avoid them. If that's not possible, I have to make up an excuse to break away as soon as possible.
> 
> It's fine to enjoy chatting with people, but please carefully consider if the other person is really enjoying it as much as you are.


As another introvert, YES to this! Please for the love of God notice when we just DO NOT want to engage! lol



Faithful Wife said:


> *I don't think it is anything extroverted people can understand. They mean no harm and enjoy it so much themselves, and many of them believe they are "bringing you out of your shell" if you are introverted. They don't realize we don't want to be brought out of our shells, that we are happy and snug in here. Since they can't imagine being happy without being extroverted, they see us in our little shells and think we want out. It makes sense, coming from their perspective.*
> 
> Fewer people are introverted than extroverted, and extroverted people tend to not understand introversion whereas we introverts have no choice but to understand extroverts...since they are everywhere, trying to pry our shells open.


Very well put, FW!

I had one very extroverted boyfriend, who in all honesty had an annoying personality. And he felt the need to talk to EVERYONE. You could see the other people looking horrified and trapped, wishing he would just stop, lol! I would just want to crawl under a chair when he would get going, I would be so embarrassed. Then to add to my mortification, there were many times that he would just be making crap up! Omg why would anyone do this?? He had this inherent need to be the center of attention all the time, where I was the exact opposite and never like any attention at all. We were NOT a good match lol, it worked for a while, kind of a balancing each other out thing, but between his weirdness and his inability to let go of his previous girlfriend.. yeah that just didn't work out. 

Now my last husband was an outgoing guy, and people loved to talk with him. He was very personable and charming, and could talk to anyone and make them comfortable. I never got that same vibe with him that people wanted to run away, lol!


----------



## personofinterest

My hubby talks to people everywhere we go, but he knows them all. Between his work, his involvement in music, hunting and fishing clubs, and other community things, I sometimes joke that if we went to Alaska he'd bump into the one person he knows lol


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> I have given it some thought to give her another chance but what I don’t like is that sometimes she’s apologizing and then sometimes she’s acting as if I don’t have the right to feel the way I didn’t say that she expected me to be more patient and handle things differently.
> 
> Reminds me of my ex-wife who would say she was sorry but then little by little she would start saying that she didn’t do anything wrong and backtracking on her apologies.


My experience is that many times mulligans come back to bite you in the ass and you end up cutting bait anyways. Typically the way someone treats you when they think they can get away with it, is really how they would treat you regardless. If she was this inconsiderate, especially after she knew you were pissed off when it was happening, chances are good it will just continue.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> @Lifescript - Then it's time to pull back. Either she has the relationship style you accept, which is one of mutual respect and care, or she doesn't. If she's waffling now on her apologies then cut your dating effort with her down to nothing and let her do all the contact/pursuing so she has to put in the effort to win you back rather than the other way around. She should initiate 100% of the texts/calls. You should also keep your dates to doing nothing other than her coming over to your place to cook dinner and hang out for the next few times until she proves she's worth your time and money. So if she calls and wants to go out just tell her you've had a busy week and want to stay in, but you'd welcome her to come over and bring a bottle of wine and you'll cook dinner together or watch a movie at home, etc. Then use this time to judge her by her actions not her words. If she is putting in the effort to see you and build a relationship and you want to keep seeing her then do so. But if she is all talk and no action then dump her and move on.



Well said. Would be interesting to see her behavior if we just hanging out at home and not going to bars, restaurants, etc.


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> My experience is that many times mulligans come back to bite you in the ass and you end up cutting bait anyways. Typically the way someone treats you when they think they can get away with it, is really how they would treat you regardless. If she was this inconsiderate, especially after she knew you were pissed off when it was happening, chances are good it will just continue.




Yep. That’s the thing. SHE KNEW I was pissed because she Sawyer face when she came down. To go back up and AGAIN take 30 more mins to come back down put the nail in the coffin for me. Looking back I should have left 10 mins after she went back up. I waited too long.


----------



## ReformedHubby

wilson said:


> As an introvert, I'm begging you, and all people like this, to please consider if the other person is actually interested or is just being polite. For example, there are days I dread taking my dog for a walk because of neighbors who will not stop talking to me. They're perfectly nice people and talk about interesting things, but I just want to take my dog for a walk and go home. I don't want to stand there for 30 minutes having a chat. It's gotten to the point that I know what times they walk their dogs, leave for work, work in the yard, etc. and I avoid going by their houses at those times. If I run into them, my first thought is if I can turn down a side street and avoid them. If that's not possible, I have to make up an excuse to break away as soon as possible.
> 
> It's fine to enjoy chatting with people, but please carefully consider if the other person is really enjoying it as much as you are.


Well stated...very well stated. I think people that have my personality type but happen to be type A as well are clueless about introverts. I don't actually enjoy talking to people like that any more than you do. There is no give and take, its only one way. People like that are really only interested in hearing themselves talk. I am actually type B, I like engaging people, but I am far more interested in listening than I am talking. I don't need control, I don't even want it to be about me, I simply enjoy going along for the ride. You learn a lot that way. I joke about being so called alpha on here, but in reality I don't see myself that way at all. Being honest I just look that part. The truth is I am just a man that has learned you get further by listening and understanding others than you do by force. I don't need to be the loudest person in the room to control and influence things. I don't pound my chest. The loyalty gained through empathy is real, it comes from mutual respect, not out of fear.


----------



## Not

😁


----------



## RandomDude

I don't really get this introversion/extroversion stuff, when GF and I did the quizzes I am normally introverted and she's extroverted. In real life, it depends. Many times I'm quite social and able to approach and talk to strangers and hold long random conversations with them while my girlfriend would feel uncomfortable and shy away. At the same time I enjoy my solitude and keep a small inner circle who respects my space while when she's at home my girlfriend's phone is bombarded by her friends for hours and telling her about their lives and asking her for her thoughts.



Not said:


> ��


Haha reminds me of a story on a thread about meetup groups, a member went to one for introverts and no one came lol


----------



## Faithful Wife

An update....I ended things with my sweet younger guy. It was an odd and quick decision for me...we were enjoying each other more and more every time we saw each other. But in the bigger picture, we are not headed in the same direction, and knowing there would be an end date anyway meant that feeling deeper and deeper for each other was just going to make it harder to end things later. He is immersed in the early part of a brilliant career that takes all his time and focus, and the time he made to see me was wonderful but I knew as we went forward it wouldn’t be enough for me. He was sweet and said I do deserve more, he is sad and wishes his career didn’t prevent him from more recreational time...but it is what it is for now in his life. He will have time for relationships later in his career and I know he will find a great woman. We also raised each other’s bar for what we want in a partner. There are certain things about him that I will always look for in a partner now.

Which brings me to the other thing...yes my ex h and I are still in love with each other. Yes we may end up back together. Yes this weighs on my decisions when dating other people. 

The problem is we are not “there”yet, and although we may be getting there, it is not a guaranteed thing nor is it necessarily what we want. If we can remain friends, we prioritize this above getting back together. We are in no rush to decide. I am also open to finding out if there is a better long term partner out there for me than him. I haven’t been dating trying to find that type of guy since our divorce. I’ve been dating guys who know I’m not ready for a big commitment right now. I’ve planned to only date in search of a committed LTR when I knew I was honestly ready for one. I’m not really ready for that yet with anyone new either.

In the meantime, meeting and dating men has been fun. This last one was the best of them all. I don’t feel like dating anyone right now, I didn’t break it off to immediately find a new one. He was very hard to beat and I don’t even want to try right now.

Eventually, I will want to have a sex life again and will be looking around for someone.

In the meantime, I spend a lot of time with my ex. We hang out usually 2 nights a week, after work. One of us will call or text the other near the end of the day and ask about hanging out. He will come to my place and we will have a drink and watch trashy tv shows we love or do karaoke in the living room. Or we will meet for a drink at a bar that is between his place and mine. My family is around my home all the time, and they love him and see him all the time, he’s treated like family as he always was. My son works for him on weekends, and they have an awesome step-family connection, beyond either of their relationship with me. He and my brother are like good BIL’s still.

Lately we have even more fun things to do together because it is summer and my race car is road ready. 

It’s too bad he and I can’t just have a sex life without getting all entangled again, but we know we can’t. So I’ll be good without sex for a bit...and then we will see what happens. 

My life is in an odd but really awesome place.


----------



## Lifescript

I’ve already been betrayed in different levels twice by two women I’ve dated after my divorce. One showed me how dark and heartless material women can be; those who only care about status and power and wealth and use men for fun; at their mercy. 

Another one showed me in many different ways that she really cared for me. I at times felt bad because she showed me she loved me and I wasn’t there yet until I was and then she betrayed me as well. Bad timing perhaps. Maybe I took too long to fall for her? 

Now I sometimes think that I’m becoming something else and with each betrayal I grow darker and more distant. Perhaps one day I will not be capable to love again. Perhaps it won’t be about putting down the shield. My heart would have become essentially a shield to avoid the hurt. 

I can’t trust. 

Morning reflections. Taking some things off my mind.


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> I’ve already been betrayed in different levels twice by two women I’ve dated after my divorce. One showed me how dark and heartless material women can be; those who only care about status and power and wealth and use men for fun; at their mercy.
> 
> Another one showed me in many different ways that she really cared for me. I at times felt bad because she showed me she loved me and I wasn’t there yet until I was and then she betrayed me as well. Bad timing perhaps. Maybe I took too long to fall for her?
> 
> Now I sometimes think that I’m becoming something else and with each betrayal I grow darker and more distant. Perhaps one day I will not be capable to love again. Perhaps it won’t be about putting down the shield. My heart would have become essentially a shield to avoid the hurt.
> 
> I can’t trust.
> 
> Morning reflections. Taking some things off my mind.


I think, that after talking to many other men, that most of us have gone thru something similar (women as well). I do not think it is about becoming more darker or distant. Perhaps in relative terms to who you used to be. But not in absolute terms.
Relatively speaking I think, that most of us had simply not learned the lessons we should have learned. Perhaps thru inexperience or perhaps out of sheer blind luck (to the point of being betrayed). But in absolute terms, I think we finally get it and understand that this is how life is. Looking back at our former innocent selves, we see how much our worldview has changed, but it is only us. Now that we have learned the lessons, we are not willing to be fooled again and approach life with a more refined approach and no longer allow ourselves to be lulled into some one else's web.


----------



## minimalME

Lifescript said:


> I’ve already been betrayed in different levels twice by two women I’ve dated after my divorce. One showed me how dark and heartless material women can be; those who only care about status and power and wealth and use men for fun; at their mercy.
> 
> Another one showed me in many different ways that she really cared for me. I at times felt bad because she showed me she loved me and I wasn’t there yet until I was and then she betrayed me as well. Bad timing perhaps. *Maybe I took too long to fall for her? *
> 
> Now I sometimes think that I’m becoming something else and with each betrayal I grow darker and more distant. Perhaps one day I will not be capable to love again. Perhaps it won’t be about putting down the shield. My heart would have become essentially a shield to avoid the hurt.
> 
> I can’t trust.
> 
> Morning reflections. Taking some things off my mind.


I'm sorry, Lifescript. 

Many people here don't seem to mind rushing into new situations (I won't call them relationships) with people they don't even know, and then there are people like me who prefer to take our time, so that we can learn what someone is made of and hopefully avoid the type of pain you're dealing with.

Although I think there is a balance to timing, I doubt you waited too long.


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> I think, that after talking to many other men, that most of us have gone thru something similar (women as well). I do not think it is about becoming more darker or distant. Perhaps in relative terms to who you used to be. But not in absolute terms.
> Relatively speaking I think, that most of us had simply not learned the lessons we should have learned. Perhaps thru inexperience or perhaps out of sheer blind luck (to the point of being betrayed). But in absolute terms, I think we finally get it and understand that this is how life is. Looking back at our former innocent selves, we see how much our worldview has changed, but it is only us. Now that we have learned the lessons, we are not willing to be fooled again and approach life with a more refined approach and no longer allow ourselves to be lulled into some one else's web.



The lessons were definitely not learned when they should have been and although there’s always lessons and things to learn these were fundamental ones that I’ll for one will make sure my son knows so he hopefully doesn’t have to go through the same things I’ve been through. 

With this particular woman, what is different is that she was the one showing lots of interest and caring attitude towards me to the point where I felt bad (nice guy behavior perhaps) about not being able to give her what she wanted at the time. I was being careful. But with time and spending time with her I began to develop feelings and falling for her. 

She confessed she had been with someone else. She apologized profoundly and said she couldn’t bear not telling me and wanted me to know so there were no secrets. She says this was around the time I wasn’t sure about us long term. But we had talked about being honest and transparent and telling each other/breaking things up if we wanted to date other people.


----------



## Lifescript

minimalME said:


> I'm sorry, Lifescript.
> 
> 
> 
> Many people here don't seem to mind rushing into new situations (I won't call them relationships) with people they don't even know, and then there are people like me who prefer to take our time, so that we can learn what someone is made of and hopefully avoid the type of pain you're dealing with.
> 
> 
> 
> Although I think there is a balance to timing, I doubt you waited too long.



I know this woman for a long time. Took a long time (months) to open up to her. She knew about the divorce and everything I went through. She knew I was cheated on and promised not to do that ever to me.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> I’ve already been betrayed in different levels twice by two women I’ve dated after my divorce. One showed me how dark and heartless material women can be; those who only care about status and power and wealth and use men for fun; at their mercy.
> 
> Another one showed me in many different ways that she really cared for me. I at times felt bad because she showed me she loved me and I wasn’t there yet until I was and then she betrayed me as well. Bad timing perhaps. Maybe I took too long to fall for her?
> 
> Now I sometimes think that I’m becoming something else and with each betrayal I grow darker and more distant. Perhaps one day I will not be capable to love again. Perhaps it won’t be about putting down the shield. My heart would have become essentially a shield to avoid the hurt.
> 
> I can’t trust.
> 
> Morning reflections. Taking some things off my mind.


Not who you trust it's what you trust them to do. Trust only in your own instincts. Watch for consistency and anything off, act and don't react when faced with it, be calculative and alert, add everything up yourself even if someone is this or that, find out what makes them 'that' type of person, it's not enough what they say or what they do, learn why they do it. Challenge their strength of will under pressure, watch for red flags, even minor ones, keep them in mind. And be unforgiving when it comes to trust, don't accept anything less than 100%. Everyone makes mistakes sure, but some mistakes carry consequences they must suffer, don't accept anyone into your heart who disagrees with that.

Don't fight it. Nothing wrong with being reserved. People call it trust issues, I call it not being a fool. Unicorns do exist. But unicorns may also change, so always trust your instincts.


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> Not who you trust it's what you trust them to do. Trust only in your own instincts. Watch for consistency and anything off, act and don't react when faced with it, be calculative and alert, add everything up yourself even if someone is this or that, find out what makes them 'that' type of person, it's not enough what they say or what they do, learn why they do it. Challenge their strength of will under pressure, watch for red flags, even minor ones, keep them in mind. And be unforgiving when it comes to trust, don't accept anything less than 100%. Everyone makes mistakes sure, but some mistakes carry consequences they must suffer, don't accept anyone into your heart who disagrees with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't fight it. Nothing wrong with being reserved. People call it trust issues, I call it not being a fool. Unicorns do exist. But unicorns may also change, so always trust your instincts.




I’m leaning towards not trusting at all. But can you really be happy with such lowered expectations? Loyalty had always been key for me.


----------



## Haiku

Faithful Wife said:


> ...
> 
> My life is in an odd but really awesome place.


I think so too. Your life, I mean. I like your wise unjudgmental perspective. You indeed project fun and contentment. As for being odd, I won’t judge ‘cuz mine has always been a bit odd too. I think I’m in the best place in life ever...content and in peace. 

Do you mind saying why the two of you divorced...like in one short sentence? (I don’t want to hijack the thread.) My former wife and I remain friends too, but I’d never remarry (or be intimate with) her. 

So, what I’m hoping to understand is what triggered the divorce that may be fixed or forgotten so the two of you might someday reunite?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Haiku said:


> So, what I’m hoping to understand is what triggered the divorce that may be fixed or forgotten so the two of you might someday reunite?


We realize now that we cannot live together and combine all of our lives and money like that. If we got back together, we would ideally live next door to each other or in a duplex. I’ve also got the additional issue that my mother lives with me and will until she passes on, which could be another 10 years. So anything I do relationship-wise with anyone in the next 10 years will be influenced by this. I would not move any man in with us, it just would not be feasible for me right now. 

So our issues would be the same if we tried to couple up the same way we did before. We know now that if we try again it will be with a better game plan. Again, we are in no rush though. We are enjoying our friendship and are so close right now that we don’t want to rock the boat. Just rowing gently down the stream seems the better plan for now.


----------



## Haiku

Thank you.


----------



## honcho

Faithful Wife said:


> We realize now that we cannot live together and combine all of our lives and money like that. If we got back together, we would ideally live next door to each other or in a duplex. I’ve also got the additional issue that my mother lives with me and will until she passes on, which could be another 10 years. So anything I do relationship-wise with anyone in the next 10 years will be influenced by this. I would not move any man in with us, it just would not be feasible for me right now.
> 
> So our issues would be the same if we tried to couple up the same way we did before. We know now that if we try again it will be with a better game plan. Again, we are in no rush though. We are enjoying our friendship and are so close right now that we don’t want to rock the boat. Just rowing gently down the stream seems the better plan for now.


I think many unhappy married couples would be happy couples if they lived next door to each other instead of together.


----------



## 269370

Lifescript said:


> I’ve already been betrayed in different levels twice by two women I’ve dated after my divorce. One showed me how dark and heartless material women can be; those who only care about status and power and wealth and use men for fun; at their mercy.
> 
> Another one showed me in many different ways that she really cared for me. I at times felt bad because she showed me she loved me and I wasn’t there yet until I was and then she betrayed me as well. Bad timing perhaps. Maybe I took too long to fall for her?
> 
> Now I sometimes think that I’m becoming something else and with each betrayal I grow darker and more distant. Perhaps one day I will not be capable to love again. Perhaps it won’t be about putting down the shield. My heart would have become essentially a shield to avoid the hurt.
> 
> I can’t trust.
> 
> Morning reflections. Taking some things off my mind.



That shield you talk about should IMO be up and running whether you have been in relationships before or not. I feel I was lucky to have been born with that shield in ‘active mode’. But never say never...Everyone has a blind spot somewhere. (At least it stands to reason).

I need to try to instil this into my kids too but I don’t know how. I know too many people whose personalities, lives and world views have been completely ruined from heart ache for good. It is tragic really and shouldn’t happen.


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## 269370

Lifescript said:


> The lessons were definitely not learned when they should have been and although there’s always lessons and things to learn these were fundamental ones that I’ll for one will make sure my son knows so he hopefully doesn’t have to go through the same things I’ve been through.
> 
> With this particular woman, what is different is that she was the one showing lots of interest and caring attitude towards me to the point where I felt bad (nice guy behavior perhaps) about not being able to give her what she wanted at the time. I was being careful. But with time and spending time with her I began to develop feelings and falling for her.
> 
> She confessed she had been with someone else. She apologized profoundly and said she couldn’t bear not telling me and wanted me to know so there were no secrets. She says this was around the time I wasn’t sure about us long term. But we had talked about being honest and transparent and telling each other/breaking things up if we wanted to date other people.



Stay away from this person. 


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## 3Xnocharm

@faithfulwife, in all honesty, I think its time you let go of your ex husband. To stop you both living in the past and give yourself (and him) a real, honest chance to find happiness elsewhere. If two people as much in love as you two cannot make a relationship work, then you need to come to terms that there is a real reason for that. I do admire that the two of you were able to still care about each other so much, but that doesn't bode well for any future relationships either of you were to get into. I know I for one would NOT be ok with my husband having this kind of relationship with his ex wife, and I know Im not the only one.


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## 3Xnocharm

So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.


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## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> I’m leaning towards not trusting at all. But can you really be happy with such lowered expectations? Loyalty had always been key for me.


That's the thing. It isn't about trusting another (you've done that before) as much as it is about trusting yourself (which you have never done). Now you know, before you didn't. The trust part is not about trusting some one else as much as it is about trusting your self.


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## TheGoodGuy

3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.


NO. When I’m in a committed, exclusive relationship all other chit chat ceases. If you have guys saying that “all men do this” then that’s the worst excuse I’ve ever heard.


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> @faithfulwife, in all honesty, I think its time you let go of your ex husband. To stop you both living in the past and give yourself (and him) a real, honest chance to find happiness elsewhere. If two people as much in love as you two cannot make a relationship work, then you need to come to terms that there is a real reason for that. I do admire that the two of you were able to still care about each other so much, but that doesn't bode well for any future relationships either of you were to get into. I know I for one would NOT be ok with my husband having this kind of relationship with his ex wife, and I know Im not the only one.


Don’t get me wrong...if either of us want to move on to another committed partner, we will of course let go of any and all ties. We may go that route. We are not holding each other back. We are both free to move on. We are not sure at this time, and we are not making any plans either way.

Of course I wouldn’t expect you to be ok with your husband having this kind of relationship with his ex wife! Goodness, why would that even come up? Do you mean like if my ex h got remarried would he and I still be in each other’s lives? Of course not.

I appreciate your sentiment that you feel we should let each other go....but please don’t make it into anything it isn’t. I would never be a thorn in any new relationship of his, nor he in mine.


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.


Do you mean like chit chatting here at TAM? The question is kind of confusing.


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## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> I’m leaning towards not trusting at all. But can you really be happy with such lowered expectations? Loyalty had always been key for me.


Trust is earned. I found it best to be 'distrusting' but quite frankly it's more simply being cautious. When you find someone you can trust, it's not something you can choose. Like respect. For me that's a better standard than having to choose to trust someone which in my opinion is bleh.



3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.


I have quite a few female friends on FB, some of whom are ex-dates etc. I simply give full transparency to my girlfriend with those. Same as how she gives full transparency to me with her male friends. However, we don't go meet them one on one.


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you mean like chit chatting here at TAM? The question is kind of confusing.


I mean like chatting online or over text. And I am referring to just normal talk, not like heavy flirting or sexting or anything so in your face. 

@RandomDude... so you do chat with ex's? Why do you feel the need to do that? I would not be (am not) cool with that at all.


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## honcho

3Xnocharm said:


> I mean like chatting online or over text. And I am referring to just normal talk, not like heavy flirting or sexting or anything so in your face.
> 
> @RandomDude... so you do chat with ex's? Why do you feel the need to do that? I would not be (am not) cool with that at all.


If I'm in a committed relationship I avoid it as much as I could. I've had wives or girlfriends of my friends in the past who would actively want to chat with me and it's always made me feel uncomfortable. It's one thing if they are asking for help finding a birthday present or planning an event but just normal chit chat banter not so much.


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## RandomDude

3Xnocharm said:


> I mean like chatting online or over text. And I am referring to just normal talk, not like heavy flirting or sexting or anything so in your face.
> 
> @RandomDude... so you do chat with ex's? Why do you feel the need to do that? I would not be (am not) cool with that at all.


Well I don't see why not as long as it was amicable. Ex-wife obviously have to maintain contact as a co-parent and we are friends, though no longer close. Several other exs or past dates including last one we still chat every now and then. It's not like everyday, more like once every few months or even once or twice a year. Girlfriend has them too and I don't mind, alot of it is just asking for random opinions. Ex-gf for example was asking for advice in regards to her workplace issues and girlfriend's ex-bf was texting her for advice with his current relationship. We both show each other and talk about it so there's nothing really to worry about for us.

If it's everyday or something though then yeah, that's a tad suspicious.


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## 269370

3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.




If I answer that question, will I be falling into that category? 

It depends on the reasons. I do it sometimes if I don’t want to burden her with crap or if I want to find out about something that could benefit our marriage. I DONT do it out of interest towards other women ‘cos that can be a slippery slope. 

You also need a trusting wife to me this a non-problem...


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> Well I don't see why not as long as it was amicable. Ex-wife obviously have to maintain contact as a co-parent and we are friends, though no longer close. Several other exs or past dates including last one we still chat every now and then. It's not like everyday, more like once every few months or even once or twice a year. Girlfriend has them too and I don't mind, alot of it is just asking for random opinions. Ex-gf for example was asking for advice in regards to her workplace issues and girlfriend's ex-bf was texting her for advice with his current relationship. We both show each other and talk about it so there's nothing really to worry about for us.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's everyday or something though then yeah, that's a tad suspicious.




If you know there are girls you chat with on FB who will de-friend you after you announce your new relationship status, then I would not find it ok to chat / be friends with them in the first place. Im not sure what the appeal of that is?


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## Lifescript

3Xnocharm said:


> @faithfulwife, in all honesty, I think its time you let go of your ex husband. To stop you both living in the past and give yourself (and him) a real, honest chance to find happiness elsewhere. If two people as much in love as you two cannot make a relationship work, then you need to come to terms that there is a real reason for that. I do admire that the two of you were able to still care about each other so much, but that doesn't bode well for any future relationships either of you were to get into. I know I for one would NOT be ok with my husband having this kind of relationship with his ex wife, and I know Im not the only one.



I was thinking similarly. After reading wife’s latest post it seems to me like what they are doing is admirable and rare for exes to remain friends but if I was in the situation I’d feel like staying friends and hanging out with my ex is preventing me from moving on and finding someone new.


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## Lifescript

3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.




I don’t. And I think whoever does this is going down a slippery slope. But I’m weird and perhaps old fashion in this respect. I haven’t learned how to talk to women and not be interested especially if I’m attracted so when I was married I stayed away from girls who “wanted to be friends”.


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## 3Xnocharm

Lifescript said:


> I don’t. And I think whoever does this is going down a slippery slope. But I’m weird and perhaps old fashion in this respect. I haven’t learned how to talk to women and not be interested especially if I’m attracted so when I was married I stayed away from girls who “wanted to be friends”.


So you and Honcho both say, no, you don't. Good to know. I am by no means a control freak, but I don't like the idea of my significant other chatting online with another woman who is not a friend of our relationship. Mine has several old friends, and we have several mutual friends, who I would be ok with occasional chat, so I am not completely anti-female contact. And yes, I do realize that just because they chat doesn't mean he wants to be with her... but I don't like the idea of my SO putting energy toward someone else.


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## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> I’m leaning towards not trusting at all. But can you really be happy with such lowered expectations? Loyalty had always been key for me.


You just need to learn to identify/screen for people that share your same ideals and values. Being loyal and honest are my top features I look for in women. I've dated women that are that way and others that aren't. But as long as I can identify which they are and I'm not lying to myself about them, then it's easy to decide what sort of relationship to have. The non-loyal women are only good for F'ing and are worthless for dating/relationship. The hard part comes in when you really like a non-loyal woman and you can read the signs that show they aren't right for you, but you still feel drawn to them and hope they'll change to the point you deceive yourself and try to have a real relationship with them.


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## Bananapeel

3Xnocharm said:


> So men, a question... do ALL men chit chat with other women online when they are in a committed relationship?? I don't mean the one who has been like your sister since you were 12.


I have some female friends that I periodically chat with digitally. It's not a big deal and shouldn't be, even if I'm in a committed relationship. I can see where it might bother women I date because some of those females are orbiters that want to date me. Others are purely platonic friends that nothing would ever happen with. I wouldn't go chatting with strangers on online dating platforms though, if I'm in a committed relationship.


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## 3Xnocharm

Yeah, orbiters are not cool. Those kind are prevalent, and one of the main reasons for my stance. You can hover in the distance and wait til the dude is single, lol....


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> If you know there are girls you chat with on FB who will de-friend you after you announce your new relationship status, then I would not find it ok to chat / be friends with them in the first place. Im not sure what the appeal of that is?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The exs/dates I chat on FB from time to time haven't defriended me after announcing my relationship status and if they did they aren't being sincere about being friends in the first place. So good riddance. However, the exs/dates I have right now are solid friends as many years had passed. My recent ex had showed some signs of jealousy however in the end she's quite happy for me and I encourage her that she will find someone as well, someone who actually loves her considering the quality that she had shown me. My girlfriend also respects her, though she does like to know whenever she messages me lol. She's also met my ex-wife who's much more comfortable now after meeting her considering she's spending alot of time with our daughter as well.


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## RandomDude

3Xnocharm said:


> Yeah, orbiters are not cool. Those kind are prevalent, and one of the main reasons for my stance. You can hover in the distance and wait til the dude is single, lol....


My girlfriend has/had an orbiter. This guy at work. It's quite amusing actually. Since she started he's showered her with lots of gifts all of which she rejected and returned lol. Then I came along and picked her up in one day lol, and due to his persistence even after she told him she has a boyfriend, my girlfriend and I proceeded to do an R18+ style demonstration of our affection right in front of him. Was her idea actually, and I asked her about what if he no longer wants to be friends, and she tells me "that's his problem, and if he is only friends with me because he thinks he can get me then he's not a real friend at all".

She always considers how I would feel, and even with friends who she knows will never hit on her - she doesn't cross the boundaries of our relationship by getting a ride from them etc. I do the same for her even when I know the girls won't hit on me, like my exs, we've been there done that. Still I let her know when they text and show her the messages. Most of the time she just smiles and says she trusts me.


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## RandomDude

Ah she cracks me up too sometimes, just recently we went to a coffee store, she was giving evils to two girls checking me out, tells me, then blurts out "well I'm hotter than both of them anyway" - which was so unlike her! And then when I laughed and asked her where that came from, then she goes "some things you just admit" :rofl: 

She regrets saying it now and says it's not her, and she doesn't want to be like 'one of those girls' who think they are everything. But doesn't stop me from teasing her endlessly about it since then lol - She's normally very humble till she shows her claws I guess, which is cute! I tease her that despite her humility deep down she knows she's hot, which she denies haha

Too late!


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## Bananapeel

3Xnocharm said:


> Yeah, orbiters are not cool. Those kind are prevalent, and one of the main reasons for my stance. You can hover in the distance and wait til the dude is single, lol....


That's usually what they do. It's not a big deal IMO, especially since guys with orbiters aren't usually really interested in them or we'd already be dating them instead of dating our current partners.


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## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> That's usually what they do. It's not a big deal IMO, especially since* guys with orbiters aren't usually really interested in them or we'd already be dating them instead of dating our current partners.*


Yes, this is true, good point LOL! It just really annoying, its being disrespectful to the person's relationship to try and keep yourself in their face. My expectation of course is that they are rebuffed and put in their place.


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## Bananapeel

I don't rebuff them, I just don't spend much time (in person or digitally) with them because that effectively conveys their importance level in my life. I was chatting this weekend with the woman I've been dating and explained to her that she can tell how much I like her based on the amount of time I carve out of my schedule for her. I'm always super busy so I guard my time very carefully and only spend it on things/people that are important to me. Same thing with orbiters. I might chat a bit but they don't get access to very much of my time.


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## Elizabeth001

I only had one guy friend in my entire life that wasn’t an “orbiter” and he was gay 


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## Hope Shimmers

Well, I had a great first date this past weekend. Fingers crossed; knock on wood....

I had decided I was done looking and dating for awhile, but then I got asked out and I thought.... why not. It was fun. Who knows if it will go anywhere.


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## bkyln309

Found out the end of last week: A man I had dated before my current bf is married. Funny I questioned him about being married when we were first dating. He texted me the first page of his divorce papers. I assume he never filed them. 

Looks like I made the right choice when I chose my current instead of him.


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## hope4family

bkyln309 said:


> Found out the end of last week: A man I had dated before my current bf is married. Funny I questioned him about being married when we were first dating. He texted me the first page of his divorce papers. I assume he never filed them.
> 
> Looks like I made the right choice when I chose my current instead of him.


Men like this disgust me. It's not surprising that you have to navigate through it. Just wish it wasn't so.


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## hope4family

Hey singles of TAM. 

I am single. At the moment, I am mostly just grieving the breakup. I did the breaking up. So I am going to grieve for a while, and then re-enter. 

What's the latest on dating in your mid 30's?


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## RandomDude

hope4family said:


> Hey singles of TAM.
> 
> I am single. At the moment, I am mostly just grieving the breakup. I did the breaking up. So I am going to grieve for a while, and then re-enter.
> 
> What's the latest on dating in your mid 30's?


Dating my potential future wife, now nearing half a year with no sign of slowing down, after dating quite a few since divorce. Met many great women, also some not so great ones, followed my instincts and never been steered astray. Took breaks in between, went at my own pace, even if it meant a year of celibacy here and there to recollect myself.

Worth it. So take your time. There's hope for even sociopaths, so there's bound to be hope for you


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## Bananapeel

hope4family said:


> Hey singles of TAM.
> 
> I am single. At the moment, I am mostly just grieving the breakup. I did the breaking up. So I am going to grieve for a while, and then re-enter.
> 
> What's the latest on dating in your mid 30's?


I'm very early 40's but the 30's weren't any different than any other time. You meet people, go out, and see if you have fun together and are compatible. The big difference is vs your 20's, people are now financially independent and if you're lucky their kids are old enough that they don't need constant attention.


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## ReformedHubby

Bananapeel said:


> I'm very early 40's but the 30's weren't any different than any other time. You meet people, go out, and see if you have fun together and are compatible. The big difference is vs your 20's, people are now financially independent and if *you're lucky their kids are old enough that they don't need constant attention*.


Yes, I saw in many OLD profiles that women didn't want to date a guy with young kids. For many it was a deal breaker. I found that interesting. But I can understand why people feel that way.


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## Bananapeel

I wouldn't want to date a woman with young kids either because their attention isn't going to be focused on me or alternatively they are looking for a replacement father figure.


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## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> I'm very early 40's but the 30's weren't any different than any other time. You meet people, go out, and see if you have fun together and are compatible. The big difference is vs your 20's, people are now financially independent and if you're lucky their kids are old enough that they don't need constant attention.


Makes sense, I am interested in one or two more biological children. Is this an overall unrealistic expectation or should I be willing to compromise that?

Overall, I understand the complications in what I am looking for. Still doesn't mean that it isn't worth looking into. I am on the young side of mid 30's still. So I personally feel I still have the time and energy to chase toddlers.


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## Bananapeel

Hope, that's a realistic expectation and you could easily meet someone that wants the same. Plus, you shouldn't compromise on things that are important to you. Some guys also really like big families and want more kids. You're still young enough that you have time to meet someone and develop a proper relationship that develops into a family, without being forced by your biological clock to fast track things. I have a female friend that is 40 and has never been married, but she wants to find someone, get married, and have kids. She's had a real hard time finding guys because her time table is moving at light speed which tends to scare guys off.


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## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> I wouldn't want to date a woman with young kids either because their attention isn't going to be focused on me or alternatively they are looking for a replacement father figure.


I can relate to this, I have a 21 year old daughter, I'm free, essentially, LOL... You have a 12 year old? Cool! You have a 6 year old? NOPE.


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## Hope Shimmers

3Xnocharm said:


> I can relate to this, I have a 21 year old daughter, I'm free, essentially, LOL... You have a 12 year old? Cool! You have a 6 year old? NOPE.


^^^ This.


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## Faithful Wife

@FeministInPink

I hope you come give us an update. We hope you are ok.

(I'm not positive my mention of her actually works or will notify her...)


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## Ynot

Wow, how time flies. Today I was talking to my daughter and she asked me what the date was. Well I looked at my phone and realized that today is the 24th of August, which means that I had completely missed the 4th anniversary of the date my ex left (8/21). I have been too busy living life to even notice it. Just a reminder to those who are so early into the pain to not believe the old saying that "time heals all".


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## Wolf1974

So been awhile since I posted an update. Long time coming but I had a decision to make and took me forever to make it.

Things are still going strong with my GF. Still living together and still moving through life. My promotion has been hard. I work mids now and have ****ty days off. All part of the territory and this should be my last year of it thankfully but as a result our time spent together is limited.

The real update is that I was thinking earlier this year I would ask her to marry me. I had a suprise trip to Paris planned for the engagement. I thought and analyzed and maybe did that to much. At the end the time came for commitment to plan our trip next month and I just couldn’t do it. Not ready I guess. I wish I was, I wish I had met her earlier in life, But I didn’t. 

It has been 8 years since my divorce, hard to believe even typing it but true. I worked really really hard to get myself back together, get my finances back in order, get my career back on track. The risk and fears of marriage is just overwhelming and I don’t want to ask until I know I can do so whole hearted. And I don’t think she would want it any other way. Next year is another year and I will think more on it. A little disappointed but it’s just not the time. It has been a heavy decision weighing on me. Glad it’s made for now


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## Faithful Wife

Wolf1974 said:


> So been awhile since I posted an update. Long time coming but I had a decision to make and took me forever to make it.
> 
> Things are still going strong with my GF. Still living together and still moving through life. My promotion has been hard. I work mids now and have ****ty days off. All part of the territory and this should be my last year of it thankfully but as a result our time spent together is limited.
> 
> The real update is that I was thinking earlier this year I would ask her to marry me. I had a suprise trip to Paris planned for the engagement. I thought and analyzed and maybe did that to much. At the end the time came for commitment to plan our trip next month and I just couldn’t do it. Not ready I guess. I wish I was, I wish I had met her earlier in life, But I didn’t.
> 
> It has been 8 years since my divorce, hard to believe even typing it but true. I worked really really hard to get myself back together, get my finances back in order, get my career back on track. The risk and fears of marriage is just overwhelming and I don’t want to ask until I know I can do so whole hearted. And I don’t think she would want it any other way. Next year is another year and I will think more on it. A little disappointed but it’s just not the time. It has been a heavy decision weighing on me. Glad it’s made for now


There’s no rush! More time is always good and you literally have all the time you need to make this decision. Also once you do decide and if you propose, you can have a long-ish engagement and that’s even more time you have to just know for sure before you say I do.

Keep your head on straight and you will know when the time is right, or if it is not.


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## minimalME

Wolf1974 said:


> The real update is that I was thinking earlier this year I would ask her to marry me. I had a suprise trip to Paris planned for the engagement. I thought and analyzed and maybe did that to much. At the end the time came for commitment to plan our trip next month and I just couldn’t do it. Not ready I guess. I wish I was, I wish I had met her earlier in life, But I didn’t.


Even though you're not quite there, I'm very happy for you - that you've found someone you love! And that you planned on taking her to Paris is just so thoughtful. It all sounds very exciting!


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## Bellalashay37

I think is great and it's great to see a post like this ,I wish u the best .


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## FeministInPink

ReformedHubby said:


> Yes, I saw in many OLD profiles that women didn't want to date a guy with young kids. For many it was a deal breaker. I found that interesting. But I can understand why people feel that way.


I don't have kids. I don't want kids. Why would I want to date someone who has kids? One of the reasons I don't want them is because of the way it would restrict my time and finances... which is exactly what I would get if I dated a man who has kids.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Sorry for just dropping that and not posting anything further. I just really didn't want to go into it. I still don't want to go into it in detail, but I'll give a small update.

I'm doing ok. I spent two weeks chain smoking and obsessively playing video games on my phone, when I wasn't in bed or at work. Not the healthiest behavior, but you do what you have to do to get through. 

But I'm doing better now, and am thinking about what I want my life to be, and what the future looks like, without Real Estate in it. While I am optimistic about what the future holds, I don't relish the idea of dating again. 

I have never really liked dating to begin with. I know that some of you think it's great, getting to meet new people, etc etc, even if it doesn't go anywhere, but I find it incredibly tiresome. So I have no intention of dating again any time soon. I just want to take this time and focus on myself, and try to become the best version of myself. I'm not really sure where to start, but I'm figuring it out.

I have no illusions of us getting back together. He simply has too many defenses up to allow himself to love another person, and he's not sure about me which is the only thing that might spur him to make those changes. He turns 50 next month, and he is very stubborn and resistant to change, and he does not approach things with the same open mind that I do. He clearly cares very deeply for me, but that simply wasn't enough.

I sometimes wonder if I loved him for the way he made me feel, father than really loving him for himself. It's hard to say. But I find myself missing the way that I felt when I was with him than the actual missing of him. I think that says a lot.

That being said, there will always be a part of me that loves him for everything he gave me and everything I learned in our relationship. And he helped me to un-learn a lot of the relationship BS that I learned from my FOO. He was very nurturing in that way, and I have grown so much in the past 2.5 yrs. And because of that, I will never regret the time spent with him, or feel that it was time wasted, which I know was a great fear of his.
@farsidejunky and @TheGoodGuy are both right about the square peg in a round hole. And there are a lot of things that I would like in a long-term partnership that I simply was never going to get with him. But because of this relationship, I feel that I am better prepared to find a more compatible partner in the future.

(@Faithful Wife No, I did not receive notification of your tag because of my settings, but I appreciate the intent.)


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## FeministInPink

Oh, and I failed to mention that a few days after I posted the initial post, we did meet and had a long talk. We decided to stay friends, but I'm not really sure what that will look like. I'm not sure what I WANT that to look like right now. We agreed to not be in contact for a month so that we could each have our space. He doesn't want it to be awkward if we see each other at a link event, but everything considered, I'm not sure how it wouldn't be awkward. So I will probably just avoid going to events he's going to (I can see this on the link social site we're both on). But I don't really foresee this being a problem, as I prefer to go to kink events with a partner, anyway.

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## hope4family

FeministInPink said:


> I have no illusions of us getting back together. He simply has too many defenses up to allow himself to love another person, and he's not sure about me which is the only thing that might spur him to make those changes. He turns 50 next month, and he is very stubborn and resistant to change, and he does not approach things with the same open mind that I do. He clearly cares very deeply for me, but that simply wasn't enough.


I am sorry to read this. I could have written this with the person I just broke up with, just change the sex, play with the age number and whammo! 

You seem to be in the right place though. Still sucks.


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## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> Hope, that's a realistic expectation and you could easily meet someone that wants the same. Plus, you shouldn't compromise on things that are important to you. Some guys also really like big families and want more kids. You're still young enough that you have time to meet someone and develop a proper relationship that develops into a family, without being forced by your biological clock to fast track things. I have a female friend that is 40 and has never been married, but she wants to find someone, get married, and have kids. She's had a real hard time finding guys because her time table is moving at light speed which tends to scare guys off.


Thanks, after my 2 year stint in this current relationship I was left asking myself if I really can go back into the 20's early 30's for a nice woman with these expectations. 

At my current phase, i'd be ok with a lightning round of speed dating to find the one. I would REQUIRE marriage counseling, financial counseling, ect ect down the line. But that's my clock ticking, which was ticking hard for the past few years like a bump in my heart and loins at the same time. 

I'll still try and take it slow though, for now, just grieving enough to not carry it in my next relationship.


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I have no illusions of us getting back together. He simply has too many defenses up to allow himself to love another person, and he's not sure about me which is the only thing that might spur him to make those changes. He turns 50 next month, and he is very stubborn and resistant to change, and he does not approach things with the same open mind that I do. He clearly cares very deeply for me, but that simply wasn't enough.


Damn FIP... I don't know what I can say. 
I'm not sure it's right of me to share this but...

You always said he has defences, and you are 100% right to believe that if he truly loved you he would have thrown all these silly defences away, as I have for the first time in my life, it wasn't even possible to stop, and it happened so fast. I never experienced this with any of my ex-gfs or my ex-wife and I reckon it's important now, to have standards of love.



> I sometimes wonder if I loved him for the way he made me feel, father than really loving him for himself. It's hard to say. But I find myself missing the way that I felt when I was with him than the actual missing of him. I think that says a lot.


I'm not sure if I'm the best person to advocate for what love is but... I just know - now that is, that when you do love someone, there is just no doubt about what it is.
Hang in there FIP, take as long as you need to, love comes when it's ready. There's always hope even when you lose all hope.


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## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> I am sorry to read this. I could have written this with the person I just broke up with, just change the sex, play with the age number and whammo!
> 
> You seem to be in the right place though. Still sucks.


You know what, though? It's ok. These problems? They're about him and his limitations, and not about me. If he wants to limit his life in this way, that's his choice.

I can't understand why someone would limit themselves in such a manner. And he doesn't understand how I can be so open after what I've been through. I believe that you can only receive great love and joy in life if you are also open to the possibility of pain and hurt--you can't be selectively open to one and not the other.

There was part of me that knew this relationship was going to end, if only because of his insistence that nothing ever lasts. He doomed us from the beginning in that way. Even so, I embraced the relationship, intent on soaking up all the love and happiness it brought me in the present, rather than ending it prematurely to protect myself from the pain of its ultimate end. And I'm glad that I did.

I know that not every relationship is meant to last a lifetime. I'm not naive. But I wanted to experience this relationship to its fullest potential, and I think that I did. 

So it's ok. Yes, I'm sad that it's over, but given his limitations and his inability to overcome them, it wasn't meant to last forever. What is more sad, to me, is the fact that someone I care for so deeply, chooses to live his life alone and without love because he is scared. He is a good man, and he deserves better than that. He, more than many people I know, really needs love in his life, but he is so scared of losing it (love) that he won't even try.

That is what's really sad about this whole thing.

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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> You know what, though? It's ok. These problems? They're about him and his limitations, and not about me. If he wants to limit his life in this way, that's his choice.
> 
> I can't understand why someone would limit themselves in such a manner. And he doesn't understand how I can be so open after what I've been through. I believe that you can only receive great love and joy in life if you are also open to the possibility of pain and hurt--you can't be selectively open to one and not the other.


Seems like he simply never loved you, whether if it's because you simply werent the right one or that he was just so far gone I dunno... 

I thought I was far gone too, heck I thought I was worse than him. And yet, I still fell head over heels. So I dunno.



> There was part of me that knew this relationship was going to end, if only because of his insistence that nothing ever lasts. He doomed us from the beginning in that way. Even so, I embraced the relationship, intent on soaking up all the love and happiness it brought me in the present, rather than ending it prematurely to protect myself from the pain of its ultimate end. And I'm glad that I did.
> 
> I know that not every relationship is meant to last a lifetime. I'm not naive. But I wanted to experience this relationship to its fullest potential, and I think that I did.
> 
> So it's ok. Yes, I'm sad that it's over, but given his limitations and his inability to overcome them, it wasn't meant to last forever.


Don't you want better? :/

Don't you feel you deserve better?

Quite frankly, with some of the stuff you mentioned, I can't help but feel like you've settled for him abit. Correct me if wrong.



> What is more sad, to me, is the fact that someone I care for so deeply, chooses to live his life alone and without love because he is scared. He is a good man, and he deserves better than that. He, more than many people I know, really needs love in his life, but he is so scared of losing it (love) that he won't even try.
> 
> That is what's really sad about this whole thing.


He will either regret this for the rest of his life, and think of you on this death bed, or find someone who will shatter his walls. 

Either way, I hope you're truly ok.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Seems like he simply never loved you, whether if it's because you simply werent the right one or that he was just so far gone I dunno...
> 
> I thought I was far gone too, heck I thought I was worse than him. And yet, I still fell head over heels. So I dunno.


I think he loved me to the extent he could, but he certainly wasn't in love with me. Whether it's because I wasn't "the one" or because of his defenses, I will never know. Regardless, it doesn't really matter, and it's not worth trying to figure out, because the answer doesnt change anything.





RandomDude said:


> Don't you want better? :/
> 
> Don't you feel you deserve better?
> 
> Quite frankly, with some of the stuff you mentioned, I can't help but feel like you've settled for him abit. Correct me if wrong.


Better than what, exactly? Despite what he said about love, he always made me feel loved and cherished, and looked at me like I was the only woman in the room. He always listened to me, and really heard and understood. He made me, and my needs, a priority in our relationship. We always had fun together, he made me laugh like crazy, and he made me really happy.

How is that settling?

If anything, he raised the bar and my expectations for future relationships.



RandomDude said:


> He will either regret this for the rest of his life, and think of you on this death bed, or find someone who will shatter his walls.
> 
> Either way, I hope you're truly ok.


Again, neither of those options really matters, because they don't change the fact that he's decided to end our relationship, and I have to move on.



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## hope4family

Seems like it was a great relationship for what it was worth. I do agree with Random dude. He needs his itch scratched just the right way. Frankly, I ended my relationship because after a hard look at each other. I realized I wasn't the cats meow to my ex. The, "I would rather marry then lose you" argument was nice to an extent and from her meant I had made it further then any other man had. I just wasn't the one to say "hell yes" over. 

Once I realized that. I spoke my needs to her asking if I could be this. The answer,(which took several days) was no. The hardest part after that is moving on.


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## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> Seems like it was a great relationship for what it was worth. I do agree with Random dude. He needs his itch scratched just the right way. Frankly, I ended my relationship because after a hard look at each other. I realized I wasn't the cats meow to my ex. The, "I would rather marry then lose you" argument was nice to an extent and from her meant I had made it further then any other man had. I just wasn't the one to say "hell yes" over.
> 
> Once I realized that. I spoke my needs to her asking if I could be this. The answer,(which took several days) was no. The hardest part after that is moving on.


It WAS a great relationship, the best I've ever had. Which is why I say he raised the bar... and he validated my high expectations and my needs. And it wasn't great just from my perspective... he said that I'm the only woman who has every fully accepted him as he is, without judgement.

There were some things he wanted, though, that I simply couldn't provide. He was really turned on by cuckholding, and he very much wanted to try. But I don't want to be shared, and I wasn't interested in being physically intimate with any person other than him. I don't know if this played a role in his decision making or not. For my part, there is something sex-wise that I gave up (because he wouldn't do it), but I decided that the trade off for everything else he DID do (and did very well) was worth the sacrifice. 

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## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> Seems like it was a great relationship for what it was worth. I do agree with Random dude. He needs his itch scratched just the right way. Frankly, I ended my relationship because after a hard look at each other. I realized I wasn't the cats meow to my ex. The, "I would rather marry then lose you" argument was nice to an extent and from her meant I had made it further then any other man had. I just wasn't the one to say "hell yes" over.
> 
> Once I realized that. I spoke my needs to her asking if I could be this. The answer,(which took several days) was no. The hardest part after that is moving on.


And he also thought that I could "do better" than him, which always broke my heart a little bit, because he thought I couldn't see my own worth. But really, HE couldn't see his own worth.

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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> And he also thought that I could "do better" than him, which always broke my heart a little bit, because he thought I couldn't see my own worth. But really, HE couldn't see his own worth.


This is interesting due to conversations I’ve had with one girlfriend over a period of time. She had 2 boyfriends in a row who both told her that they “didn’t deserve her”. 

The first one turned out to be a serial cheater, unknown to her until after they broke up and then she heard from several women about it. He was truly in love with her, but apparently had some kind of complete mental disorder that made him keep cheating, and that’s why he knew he did not deserve her. (Perhaps he simply needed to realize he is poly...but his issues ran way deeper than just the cheating). I know people will say if he truly loved her he wouldn’t have cheated, but in this guys case I know he really did love her.

The next one was also madly in love with her, and also said he didn’t deserve her or she deserved better quite regularly, and he meant it. He knew she deserved a man with a certain professional stature and also physical fitness, to match her own. He also was just kind of a flake and had ADD possibly. He knew he could not really control his ADD type behaviors beyond a certain point, and he had other medical issues which he hated. She had no problem with his medical issues, was ready and willing to help him with them. And she was understanding about the ADD stuff. She always thought he was just feeling low self esteem when he said these things. 

But here’s where it gets very subtle....he would not have been so patient with her if she were the one with these issues. He did love her madly but in some areas was just not a great boyfriend (though he was one in so many other ways). I’m not saying he was aware of this, but I do know that when he sized up just what a great woman and girlfriend she was in so many ways, and compared to himself and what he felt he could give to her, he knew she was miles ahead of him. 

He couldn’t really handle that. Like I said, when she was understanding and helpful about his medical issues, he took her gracious loving care, but he knew he could not give back at the same level. On that and on other things. He knew - fairly objectively - that she was a better partner to him than he “deserved”. 

Again all of this was very subtle in his head. It was not that he said the things I just said. My friend and I sussed that out on our own later, with retrospect. But he knew it, inside. And he was right. He just wasn’t as good of a bf as she was a gf. He weighed it in his manly and logical way, and declared himself undeserving.

She loved him and wanted to try longer. But he pulled back eventually completely and broke it off. It turned out for the best.

After that, my friend concluded that for her, a man saying he doesn’t deserve her, is to be believed. She said she would now see it as a red flag of either a cheater, or someone with enough self awareness to see that he won’t be a good partner for her. 

She says she will never again feel something like “oh poor guy just doesn’t have good self esteem because he’s been beaten down by life”. She will instead now just know that this is a dead end, because if a guy has determined he isn’t deserving of you, he’s either correct or he will make himself correct soon.

I’m not saying RE wasn’t deserving of you, it seems to me you are both very deserving. What I’m sharing is more about how once a guy decides this, it is probably self fulfilling, no matter what the reasons are. 

This may have a corollary in women speak too. Or maybe guys have experienced the same - someone saying they don’t deserve you and then insisting on ending things. Whether the guy agreed with the deserve thing or not, if she has made up her mind, maybe it’s just going to be always true in her head.

Just thought I would throw that out there. I am actually listening for those words too, in dating.

It sounds like you are processing and doing well. I understand not wanting to date again soon. Was this the first relationship after your divorce? 

.....

Little update on me....my ex h and I are still hanging out and I’m still broken up from my most recent sweetheart. Things are going well. I haven’t wanted to date again but I know I will eventually want sex again...long before my ex h and I consider that with each other, if we ever do. 

I went for a drive with my ex bf this weekend. This is a guy I dated on and off for a year and a half, who I know I don’t want a commitment with, yet who I was actually very fond of and it was hard to break it off, thus the on and off. We haven’t hung out since we broke up in January of this year. I think if he and I played it right we could be very good FWB’s...so that’s on my back burner. I’m not to that point yet, so we’ll see.

Other than that, my life has been incredibly good. Which really helps when you are in a transition like this. I’m enjoying a lot of family and friends lately, and pursuing very fun endeavors that are totally new to me. New areas of enjoyment have opened up for me everywhere.


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## Hope Shimmers

Date 3. 

He's way taller than me, which I love. I invited him in to watch TV the other night, only I don't have any living room furniture yet. :rofl: He has this thing, which he did when he came in the door, where he looked at the room, looked at me sideways, and busted out laughing. I love it.... so we just put blankets and pillows on the floor. Who needs furniture?

I like him...


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> This is interesting due to conversations I’ve had with one girlfriend over a period of time. She had 2 boyfriends in a row who both told her that they “didn’t deserve her”.
> ...
> I’m not saying RE wasn’t deserving of you, it seems to me you are both very deserving. What I’m sharing is more about how once a guy decides this, it is probably self fulfilling, no matter what the reasons are.
> 
> This may have a corollary in women speak too. Or maybe guys have experienced the same - someone saying they don’t deserve you and then insisting on ending things. Whether the guy agreed with the deserve thing or not, if she has made up her mind, maybe it’s just going to be always true in her head.
> 
> Just thought I would throw that out there. I am actually listening for those words too, in dating.
> 
> It sounds like you are processing and doing well. I understand not wanting to date again soon. Was this the first relationship after your divorce?


In the interest of space, I didn't feel like quoting your entire post. But I think that your friend's experience with the second guy, while not exactly the same as my situation, does bear some similarities, and it makes a lot of sense. And yes, I believe it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy fueled by a negative self-image and perception on the part of whomever says it, and it also, as an absolute statement, becomes an excuse for why he "can't" grow or improve so that he could earn deserving her. It's both self-fulfilling and self-defeating at the same time.

This wasn't my first relationship after my divorce; I dated a bit and had several shorter relationships lasting a few months each after divorce/pre-Real Estate. This was the first one that I considered to be long-term, and the longest relationship I've ever had, other than with my ex-husband.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Better than what, exactly? Despite what he said about love, he always made me feel loved and cherished, and looked at me like I was the only woman in the room. He always listened to me, and really heard and understood. He made me, and my needs, a priority in our relationship. We always had fun together, he made me laugh like crazy, and he made me really happy.
> 
> How is that settling?
> 
> If anything, he raised the bar and my expectations for future relationships.


A future FIP, when you are able to see a future in his eyes.

It's great that you had a good relationship even though it didn't last, I also thought of my ex-GF that way, even though I didn't love her. But I knew deep down there wasn't a future.

She felt great sure, 'loved', cherished as well. But it was all mental love. I reckon the bar and expectations can be raised further.


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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> And he also thought that I could "do better" than him, which always broke my heart a little bit, because he thought I couldn't see my own worth. But really, HE couldn't see his own worth.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



When somebody says this or “I don’t deserve you”; what they usually mean is “I deserve better”. At least that’s the standard cliche.
Either way: there is only one person who should be able to determine best who they deserve and it is you.


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## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> When somebody says this or “I don’t deserve you”; what they usually mean is “I deserve better”. At least that’s the standard cliche.
> Either way: there is only one person who should be able to determine best who they deserve and it is you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I doubt this is the case with Real Estate. I know him better than anyone, and I know all his insecurities. And he's honest to a fault; perhaps frank or blunt is a better word. He knows he's not going to find someone better than me, or another woman like me.

But that's all irrelevant, and doesn't change anything.

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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> I doubt this is the case with Real Estate. I know him better than anyone, and I know all his insecurities. And he's honest to a fault; perhaps frank or blunt is a better word. He knows he's not going to find someone better than me, or another woman like me.
> 
> But that's all irrelevant, and doesn't change anything.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes, I am sure you are right. 
It's just weird that when someone _knows_ they are not going to find anyone better, to let go of them. 
Also the whole cuckolding thing seems odd....and that he isn't into certain sexual stuff you like (is it oral?)....not that I judge him or there is anything wrong with that...but could he be into men? (a little bit)
Sorry if I am off. I will shut up!


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## wilson

inmyprime said:


> Yes, I am sure you are right.
> It's just weird that when someone _knows_ they are not going to find anyone better, to let go of them.


If someone has been emotionally burned in the past--from parents, lovers, friends, etc--they may cut off future relationships early to avoid the pain from being dumped later. If they feel like they're unlovable or undeserving, they feel certain that their partner will dump them eventually. So to avoid that pain and maintain some control, they break up when it starts to get too serious. 

You sometimes hear something similar from people when they say why they don't get a pet. They say that losing the pet at the end is too hard, so they don't want one to begin with. But even though death is inevitable, there's still 10+ years of enjoyment. 

For those people who continually feel the looming weight of future pain, it is often easier to avoid the situation entirely. Of course, this means they miss out on a lot of joy, but they may be less stressed without it.


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Yes, I am sure you are right.
> It's just weird that when someone _knows_ they are not going to find anyone better, to let go of them.
> Also the whole cuckolding thing seems odd....and that he isn't into certain sexual stuff you like (is it oral?)....not that I judge him or there is anything wrong with that...but could he be into men? (a little bit)
> Sorry if I am off. I will shut up!


Well, some people are able to have open relationships and have no issues, and in fact makes them stronger.
With one ex-gf I had an open relationship, never loved her though. With ex-wife I tried, and she was like "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your mates". But I never loved her either.

Now, the thought of my current girlfriend being touched by someone else, I think about some hardware tools in response, namely, a hammer, maybe a hacksaw, or maybe even some pliers would do...

Hmmm... *drifts off in murderous thoughts*


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## 269370

wilson said:


> If someone has been emotionally burned in the past--from parents, lovers, friends, etc--they may cut off future relationships early to avoid the pain from being dumped later. If they feel like they're unlovable or undeserving, they feel certain that their partner will dump them eventually. So to avoid that pain and maintain some control, they break up when it starts to get too serious.
> 
> 
> 
> You sometimes hear something similar from people when they say why they don't get a pet. They say that losing the pet at the end is too hard, so they don't want one to begin with. But even though death is inevitable, there's still 10+ years of enjoyment.
> 
> 
> 
> For those people who continually feel the looming weight of future pain, it is often easier to avoid the situation entirely. Of course, this means they miss out on a lot of joy, but they may be less stressed without it.




Yes exactly, ‘they don’t get a pet’ to begin with. The people who are not ready for serious relationships should....not have relationships or make it clear at the beginning what it is.
Otherwise it’s misleading. Anyway, we are in danger of extrapolating what happened.
Some things just don’t work out 🏋*♂. Sometimes for the best.
****. Wrong emoji.


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> Well, some people are able to have open relationships and have no issues, and in fact makes them stronger.
> 
> With one ex-gf I had an open relationship, never loved her though. With ex-wife I tried, and she was like "I'm not some ***** that you pass around to your mates". But I never loved her either.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, the thought of my current girlfriend being touched by someone else, I think about some hardware tools in response, namely, a hammer, maybe a hacksaw, or maybe even some pliers would do...
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm... *drifts off in murderous thoughts*




Use those thoughts productively and go make a cupboard or repair something in the house.
That’s what I do with those thoughts anyway.


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## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> Yes, I am sure you are right.
> It's just weird that when someone _knows_ they are not going to find anyone better, to let go of them.
> Also the whole cuckolding thing seems odd....and that he isn't into certain sexual stuff you like (is it oral?)....not that I judge him or there is anything wrong with that...but could he be into men? (a little bit)
> Sorry if I am off. I will shut up!


Yes, it's weird, and shows how much baggage the man has.

And no, he is definitely not interested in men. It's more that he's turned on by the whole my partner is so hot/she's such a **** she screws other men. Hotwife (except I'm not his wife). 

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## FeministInPink

wilson said:


> If someone has been emotionally burned in the past--from parents, lovers, friends, etc--they may cut off future relationships early to avoid the pain from being dumped later. If they feel like they're unlovable or undeserving, they feel certain that their partner will dump them eventually. So to avoid that pain and maintain some control, they break up when it starts to get too serious.
> 
> You sometimes hear something similar from people when they say why they don't get a pet. They say that losing the pet at the end is too hard, so they don't want one to begin with. But even though death is inevitable, there's still 10+ years of enjoyment.
> 
> For those people who continually feel the looming weight of future pain, it is often easier to avoid the situation entirely. Of course, this means they miss out on a lot of joy, but they may be less stressed without it.


Nail on head with this post, you've got Real Estate pinned down exactly.

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## TheGoodGuy

FIP, for what it's worth, I don't think it's a case of deserving better as in "a better person". You (and RE) just deserve a better fit in a partner. Sounds like he as a great guy and we know you're a great girl. You guys just weren't the 100% right fit for each other, as heart breaking as that is.. It was close, but off enough that it wouldn't have worked to keep trying to force things or change his core values (or yours). Again, nothing you said leads me to believe he's a bad dude, just not the one for you.


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## minimalME

TheGoodGuy said:


> You guys just weren't the 100% right fit for each other, as heart breaking as that is.


But that's the problem with modern dating vs. reality. _No one_ is going to be 100% right for another person.

Who knows why he broke it off, but they seemed extremely well suited for one another. And if he indeed ended the relationship because FIP wouldn't have sex with other men? That's absurd.


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## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> _No one_ is going to be 100% right for another person.


I used to believe that, not anymore.

No one is perfect sure, but flaws and virtues can be combined to make two people a perfect match.


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## TheGoodGuy

minimalME said:


> But that's the problem with modern dating vs. reality. _No one_ is going to be 100% right for another person.
> 
> Who knows why he broke it off, but they seemed extremely well suited for one another. And if he indeed ended the relationship because FIP wouldn't have sex with other men? That's absurd.


I agree. 100% was a poor choice of words. No one is going to be 100%, and a relationship takes some give and take. But it should not take having to change one's core values to make up for the difference. 



RandomDude said:


> I used to believe that, not anymore.
> 
> No one is perfect sure, but flaws and virtues can be combined to make two people a perfect match.


Yep, flaws are one thing - we all have them. Core value differences or sexual incompatibility is a whole different conversation. For example, RE's kink being that he wanted to share FIP.


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## minimalME

TheGoodGuy said:


> I agree. 100% was a poor choice of words. No one is going to be 100%, and a relationship takes some give and take. But it should not take having to change one's core values to make up for the difference.
> 
> Yep, flaws are one thing - we all have them. Core value differences or sexual incompatibility is a whole different conversation. For example, RE's kink being that he wanted to share FIP.


Although I'd agree that authenticity, honesty, openness, kindness, etc. are values that play into a sexual relationship, kinks are not values.


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## 269370

minimalME said:


> And if he indeed ended the relationship because FIP wouldn't have sex with other men? That's absurd.


I agree. It is crazy (though I doubt that's the reason he ended it). 
There should be a board: Coping with Fidelity. Where husbands get support when their wife is *not* cheating on them, poor things.


----------



## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> I agree. It is crazy (though I doubt that's the reason he ended it).
> There should be a board: Coping with Fidelity. Where husbands get support when their wife is *not* cheating on them, poor things.


It's just born from seeing your sexual companion as simply a sex object, a trophy, a strumpet to be blown. 

When you start to see your partner as more than that, the desire to have her passed around fades, and you want her to yourself.

Of course those in open relationships will disagree, but to each their own, everyone is different. Those who can pass around their partners AND still love her as much as a monogamous person would are rather rare.


----------



## RandomDude

Hmmm... I'm getting fat. Looks like I've got the love chubs, with flabby arms and thighs and man bewbies and now even a one-pack.

I think I need to start doing cardio too instead of just weight training. Don't get it though, I'm normally a fast metaboliser =/


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... I'm getting fat. Looks like I've got the love chubs, with flabby arms and thighs and man bewbies and now even a one-pack.
> 
> I think I need to start doing cardio too instead of just weight training. Don't get it though, I'm normally a fast metaboliser =/


Awww. Literal love handles.


----------



## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... I'm getting fat. Looks like I've got the love chubs, with flabby arms and thighs and man bewbies and now even a one-pack.
> 
> I think I need to start doing cardio too instead of just weight training. Don't get it though, I'm normally a fast metaboliser =/


Bahahaha! Sounds like you're getting really comfortable in your relationship! Good for you RD!

But back to the point. Less calories ingested is a lot easier fix than burning it with cardio. I can eat a half bagel and cream cheese in two minutes but it will take me a 30 minute run to burn it off. It's so much easier to watch your diet than have to make up for it with exercise.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... I'm getting fat. Looks like I've got the love chubs, with flabby arms and thighs and man bewbies and now even a one-pack.
> 
> I think I need to start doing cardio too instead of just weight training. Don't get it though, I'm normally a fast metaboliser =/


My XH called this "the luv chubs." When you're with someone and you're happy, you're more interested in staying in and cuddling with them and sharing good meals and treats, rather than going to the gym and watching what you eat.

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## FeministInPink

minimalME said:


> But that's the problem with modern dating vs. reality. _No one_ is going to be 100% right for another person.
> 
> Who knows why he broke it off, but they seemed extremely well suited for one another. And if he indeed ended the relationship because FIP wouldn't have sex with other men? That's absurd.


I've always believed that you never find someone who is "the one" or who is 100% perfect for you... you find someone who is damn close and you round up.

I doubt this is the reason he broke it off. I find it hard to believe that a man whose marriage ended due to infidelity on his XW's part would have a problem with a woman who wants to remain faithful. I think it goes along with him wanting to not get attached.

Being "open" or "poly" has become the norm in the kink world, which makes me an outlier, I suppose. And a relationship with me means he doesn't get to experience "everything" the kink world has to offer. But he forgets what it was like without me. Single men are typically not allowed at most play parties (but single women are), and single male exhibitionists, while welcome, are generally avoided by most people at clubs and events. He was able to do and experience a lot more with me than without.

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## RandomDude

minimalME said:


> Awww. Literal love handles.





Bananapeel said:


> Bahahaha! Sounds like you're getting really comfortable in your relationship! Good for you RD!
> But back to the point. Less calories ingested is a lot easier fix than burning it with cardio. I can eat a half bagel and cream cheese in two minutes but it will take me a 30 minute run to burn it off. It's so much easier to watch your diet than have to make up for it with exercise.





FeministInPink said:


> My XH called this "the luv chubs." When you're with someone and you're happy, you're more interested in staying in and cuddling with them and sharing good meals and treats, rather than going to the gym and watching what you eat.


I just stepped on the scales, a whooping 10KG (22 pounds) >.<! Heck, I can even feel my man bewbies jiggling as I rush down staircases >.<!

Not sure I can watch the eating either, she keeps feeding me! lol


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> But he forgets what it was like without me. Single men are typically not allowed at most play parties (but single women are), and single male exhibitionists, while welcome, are generally avoided by most people at clubs and events. He was able to do and experience a lot more with me than without.


Heh. :grin2:


----------



## 269370

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... I'm getting fat. Looks like I've got the love chubs, with flabby arms and thighs and man bewbies and now even a one-pack.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I need to start doing cardio too instead of just weight training. Don't get it though, I'm normally a fast metaboliser =/




It slows down, once you settle down 


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## 269370

RandomDude said:


> It's just born from seeing your sexual companion as simply a sex object, a trophy, a strumpet to be blown.
> 
> 
> 
> When you start to see your partner as more than that, the desire to have her passed around fades, and you want her to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course those in open relationships will disagree, but to each their own, everyone is different. Those who can pass around their partners AND still love her as much as a monogamous person would are rather rare.




Could be the other way. You could be having her all to yourself for so long, get bored, then start feeling that maybe it’s time to share the ‘good stuff’ with the world and not just be all selfish. Isn’t it what Jesus said, when he made a woman out of a man’s rib cage?


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Heh. :grin2:


Yup. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Could be the other way. You could be having her all to yourself for so long, get bored, then start feeling that maybe it’s time to share the ‘good stuff’ with the world and not just be all selfish. Isn’t it what Jesus said, when he made a woman out of a man’s rib cage?


For me, the way I love my girlfriend, there's no way I would want to share with the world, nor am I with her for entertainment. With past women, sure, I got bored, but it's like night and day; one is a soulmate, the rest were just sex partners to satisfy my urges.

And who cares what Jebus said lol


----------



## 269370

RandomDude said:


> For me, the way I love my girlfriend, there's no way I would want to share with the world, nor am I with her for entertainment. With past women, sure, I got bored, but it's like night and day; one is a soulmate, the rest were just sex partners to satisfy my urges.
> 
> 
> 
> And who cares what Jebus said lol



You are still infatuated. 


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> You are still infatuated.


I prefer to say, I'm simply still in love. And hopefully I won't lose this feeling!


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> I prefer to say, I'm simply still in love. And hopefully I won't lose this feeling!


It's been six months and you will lose the "giddy" in love feeling that you are feeling now. But hopefully the love will just grow stronger and you two will persevere. You deserve it!


----------



## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's been six months and you will lose the *"giddy" in love feeling* that you are feeling now. But hopefully *the love will just grow stronger* and you two will persevere. You deserve it!


What is the difference? I thought I knew, but this whole experience has taught me that I know nothing of love being a hardened shrew most of my life.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> What is the difference? I thought I knew, but this whole experience has taught me that I know nothing of love being a hardened shrew most of my life.


One really important thing I've learned the hard way is that love is an action -- or a series of actions -- not a feeling.

The euphoria-high feeling fades. But when you love someone, you want to be there and do things for that person, to make them happy. It makes you happy. You want to be with them.


----------



## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> One really important thing I've learned the hard way is that love is an action -- or a series of actions -- not a feeling.
> 
> The euphoria-high feeling fades. But when you love someone, you want to be there and do things for that person, to make them happy. It makes you happy. You want to be with them.


Hmm, it's been like that since we started =/


----------



## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> One really important thing I've learned the hard way is that love is an action -- or a series of actions -- not a feeling.
> 
> The euphoria-high feeling fades. But when you love someone, you want to be there and do things for that person, to make them happy. It makes you happy. You want to be with them.


This is what Real Estate still doesn't understand, and this is basically the reason for our breakup.

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## Lifescript

Hey guys, 

One of my coworkers left to another company and we had a get together for her Friday. We had drinks and got tipsy lol she confessed she liked me and we kissed. Called her the next day and said to let me know when she is free so I can take her out. She said she would love that and would let me know after the first week at her new job when she is free. That seemed odd since she works during the day. 

What should I do here? Wait for her or hit her up and suggest we meet day Friday or Saturday? 

Don’t want to be pushy but also don’t want to show no persistence.


----------



## RandomDude

Its a new job so shes right to dedicate her time to it. Be patient its her first weeknafter all. Let her contact you.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> One of my coworkers left to another company and we had a get together for her Friday. We had drinks and got tipsy lol she confessed she liked me and we kissed. Called her the next day and *said to let me know when she is free so I can take her out. She said she would love that and would let me know after the first week at her new job when she is free*. That seemed odd since she works during the day.
> 
> What should I do here? Wait for her or hit her up and suggest we meet day Friday or Saturday?
> 
> Don’t want to be pushy but also don’t want to show no persistence.


You said for her to let you know when she is free and she said she'd do that. Now all you have to do is be patient and wait. If she's really interested in you she'll make contact and then that is when you set the plans for the date.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Yep, wait it out. You could run her off if you try contact before then, trust that she will follow through.


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## Lifescript

Ok guys. Will do that. Next time I’ll propose specific dates and not ask to let me know when she is free. I think would have worked better.


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> Ok guys. Will do that. Next time I’ll propose specific dates and not ask to let me know when she is free. I think would have worked better.


There really is nothing wrong with asking her when she is free. But you have to be prepared for her answer, just as you would had you suggested a specific date and time. So you asked and she told you, accept her answer and live your life. If she calls you, great. If she doesn't? So what, what has actually changed in your life?


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> There really is nothing wrong with asking her when she is free. But you have to be prepared for her answer, just as you would had you suggested a specific date and time. So you asked and she told you, accept her answer and live your life. If she calls you, great. If she doesn't? So what, what has actually changed in your life?




Yep. It is what it is. If she is interested she will text me.


----------



## Lifescript

So I had to text her about an issue with her final check. I’m operations Manager and supervise Payroll for the dept. Then we started talking about how are weeks went and so good tomorrow is Friday. 

She says she’s been wanting to go to a rooftop bar. I mentioned one I’ve been wanting to go to that I hear is really good. I said let’s do meet next weekend since I have plans this weekend. I proposed Friday or Sunday next weekend. She replies “ok. Sounds good. Let’s try for one night next weekend.”

Is it me or she doesn’t sound too interested? I have her 2 options. I don’t want to leave it ok let’s try one night next weekend. I want to make concrete plans. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> So I had to text her about an issue with her final check. I’m operations Manager and supervise Payroll for the dept. Then we started talking about how are weeks went and so good tomorrow is Friday.
> 
> She says she’s been wanting to go to a rooftop bar. I mentioned one I’ve been wanting to go to that I hear is really good. I said let’s do meet next weekend since I have plans this weekend. I proposed Friday or Sunday next weekend. She replies “ok. Sounds good. Let’s try for one night next weekend.”
> 
> Is it me or she doesn’t sound too interested? I have her 2 options. I don’t want to leave it ok let’s try one night next weekend. I want to make concrete plans.
> 
> Thoughts?


Ok now you are the one giving out the mixed signals. She told her she wanted to meet this weekend. You made other plans. Which is cool. But now you are upset that she wants to meet one day next weekend. Tell her you are free next Friday or next Saturday. Don't be so open ended all the time. And it is like I said. If she wants to play games, then so what? Your life hasn't changed at all. You were all stressed out about this week end, last week end, but now YOU have plans.


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> Ok now you are the one giving out the mixed signals. She told her she wanted to meet this weekend. You made other plans. Which is cool. But now you are upset that she wants to meet one day next weekend. Tell her you are free next Friday or next Saturday. Don't be so open ended all the time. And it is like I said. If she wants to play games, then so what? Your life hasn't changed at all. You were all stressed out about this week end, last week end, but now YOU have plans.



I didn’t say let’s meet up this weekend. I asked when are you free. She said How about I let you know after my first week at my new job. I said ok. Now I legitimately have plans this weekend. I could meet her Sunday but rather go o dates on Friday or Saturdays. 

Like you said. So what? What will be will be.


----------



## Bananapeel

@Lifescript, you did the right thing being unavailable this weekend. After all you should have plans this weekend because you are a busy man with an active social life and you aren't going to drop everything on a whim for someone. Remember, she needs to integrate into your schedule too if you value yourself and your time, rather than just you being the one to integrate into her schedule. Where you messed up is you didn't set a "definitive" date when she brought it up. Instead you set a "maybe" date, where now you'll be putting next weekends plan on hold until she decides to let you know what works for her. To set a "definitive" date you say, how about I pick you up at 8 PM, next Friday, and we'll get a drink at ---- bar. Does that work for you? Then when she says yes, you tell her that if an emergency comes up between now and then that forces you to change plans then you'll call her but otherwise you'll see her next week. Then you get off the phone and don't contact her for any more confirmation between now and your date.


----------



## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> @Lifescript, you did the right thing being unavailable this weekend. After all you should have plans this weekend because you are a busy man with an active social life and you aren't going to drop everything on a whim for someone. Remember, she needs to integrate into your schedule too if you value yourself and your time, rather than just you being the one to integrate into her schedule. Where you messed up is you didn't set a "definitive" date when she brought it up. Instead you set a "maybe" date, where now you'll be putting next weekends plan on hold until she decides to let you know what works for her. To set a "definitive" date you say, how about I pick you up at 8 PM, next Friday, and we'll get a drink at ---- bar. Does that work for you? Then when she says yes, you tell her that if an emergency comes up between now and then that forces you to change plans then you'll call her but otherwise you'll see her next week. Then you get off the phone and don't contact her for any more confirmation between now and your date.


So I said the exact same thing as you to myself when I read his post. 

How will I add to this wonderful dissertation? Ahem. Dear Script. Print this out, and put it on a wall. 

The other side of this, is while this is all going down. Are you remembering to have fun with it? 

Story. Knew this girl once. Let's call her Asian. Finished college, followed the money, was moving out of state. We met up at a party, can't even remember the party. While talking I mention Disney, she mentions Disney I throw my date on the wall, she accepts. 

I had no idea I was walking into a date, that turned into 4 more dates before she left. Although I have no romance about the long term aspect of it. The point was, it was fun. She many times jokingly said she wished I could move with her. It was about to become date 6 when she texted she couldn't come over because she needed to finish packing. Too much time with me, so it seemed like a reasonable moment to be excused.


Frankly, you might be robbing yourself of that one fun moment of making out in a bar.


----------



## Bananapeel

Time for an update on my dating life. 

Brief background (mentioned before on TAM): I had met a cute European woman at a party a while back and we started dating this past spring. It was not exclusive (my choice) and I was actively dating other people at the time. She didn't like dating a guy in a non-exclusive manner; it caused a lot of emotional stress for her which made dating her uncomfortable for me, so we mutually decided to break up. But, we kept in contact and decided that we'd try just being friends since we still enjoyed spending time together. Since we weren't dating each other anymore she was able to relax and be herself without worrying about what I was doing with other women when she wasn't around, and we had a good time getting to really know each other as friends, so we decided to date again. The actual story of getting back together is a lot more passionate and uninhibited than that, but you get the point. 

Current update: She brought up exclusivity, which this time I agreed to since I knew her better. So I am actually just dating one person now. Incidentally, this is the first time I've been close enough to a woman to agree to exclusivity since my D, despite multiple women I've dated trying to push me in that direction. We have very opposite personality types which makes me question if we'd be long term compatible, but since I'm not looking to get married again and she's going to move back to Europe in several years after her kids graduate HS, it really isn't a big deal. We're just having fun with each other and enjoying our time together. She's recently started using the GF label and dropped the L word a couple times. I could tell by her body language and behavior over the past month that it was coming so it didn't catch me off guard when it happened. I told her that I'm not quite there yet but I like that she's comfortable enough with me to be uninhibited and express her feelings. 

Summary: I now have a cute European GF, that's worldly and cultured, highly sexual and uninhibited in bed, smart and educated, and fun to spend time with.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> @Lifescript, you did the right thing being unavailable this weekend. After all you should have plans this weekend because you are a busy man with an active social life and you aren't going to drop everything on a whim for someone. Remember, she needs to integrate into your schedule too if you value yourself and your time, rather than just you being the one to integrate into her schedule. Where you messed up is you didn't set a "definitive" date when she brought it up. Instead you set a "maybe" date, where now you'll be putting next weekends plan on hold until she decides to let you know what works for her. To set a "definitive" date you say, how about I pick you up at 8 PM, next Friday, and we'll get a drink at ---- bar. Does that work for you? Then when she says yes, you tell her that if an emergency comes up between now and then that forces you to change plans then you'll call her but otherwise you'll see her next week. Then you get off the phone and don't contact her for any more confirmation between now and your date.



Like the wording here. Straight to the point. Thanks. 

She texted today that she will let me know about next Friday because it’s her friend bday weekend and she doesn’t know yet when that weekend they will get together.


----------



## Lifescript

hope4family said:


> So I said the exact same thing as you to myself when I read his post.
> 
> How will I add to this wonderful dissertation? Ahem. Dear Script. Print this out, and put it on a wall.
> 
> The other side of this, is while this is all going down. Are you remembering to have fun with it?
> 
> Story. Knew this girl once. Let's call her Asian. Finished college, followed the money, was moving out of state. We met up at a party, can't even remember the party. While talking I mention Disney, she mentions Disney I throw my date on the wall, she accepts.
> 
> I had no idea I was walking into a date, that turned into 4 more dates before she left. Although I have no romance about the long term aspect of it. The point was, it was fun. She many times jokingly said she wished I could move with her. It was about to become date 6 when she texted she couldn't come over because she needed to finish packing. Too much time with me, so it seemed like a reasonable moment to be excused.
> 
> 
> Frankly, you might be robbing yourself of that one fun moment of making out in a bar.




I hear you. I’m having fun with it. Not stressing about it. Cool story. Some things just happen out of the blue.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Bananapeel said:


> Time for an update on my dating life.
> 
> Brief background (mentioned before on TAM): I had met a cute European woman at a party a while back and we started dating this past spring. It was not exclusive (my choice) and I was actively dating other people at the time. She didn't like dating a guy in a non-exclusive manner; it caused a lot of emotional stress for her which made dating her uncomfortable for me, so we mutually decided to break up. But, we kept in contact and decided that we'd try just being friends since we still enjoyed spending time together. Since we weren't dating each other anymore she was able to relax and be herself without worrying about what I was doing with other women when she wasn't around, and we had a good time getting to really know each other as friends, so we decided to date again. The actual story of getting back together is a lot more passionate and uninhibited than that, but you get the point.
> 
> Current update: She brought up exclusivity, which this time I agreed to since I knew her better. So I am actually just dating one person now. Incidentally, this is the first time I've been close enough to a woman to agree to exclusivity since my D, despite multiple women I've dated trying to push me in that direction. We have very opposite personality types which makes me question if we'd be long term compatible, but since I'm not looking to get married again and she's going to move back to Europe in several years after her kids graduate HS, it really isn't a big deal. We're just having fun with each other and enjoying our time together. She's recently started using the GF label and dropped the L word a couple times. I could tell by her body language and behavior over the past month that it was coming so it didn't catch me off guard when it happened. I told her that I'm not quite there yet but I like that she's comfortable enough with me to be uninhibited and express her feelings.
> 
> Summary: I now have a cute European GF, that's worldly and cultured, highly sexual and uninhibited in bed, smart and educated, and fun to spend time with.


Good update! Sounds like you are enjoying life, gotta admit this post went over just a tad better than the guy who keeps an active pool of women on the ready to keep his new hot young wife on her toes at all times and doesn't really care to spend time with his son from his first marriage and the more recent update of the guy who dumped his sick wife for a hot young wife and came here to tell everyone they were so wrong about him  Best of luck to you!


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> Time for an update on my dating life.
> 
> 
> 
> Brief background (mentioned before on TAM): I had met a cute European woman at a party a while back and we started dating this past spring. It was not exclusive (my choice) and I was actively dating other people at the time. She didn't like dating a guy in a non-exclusive manner; it caused a lot of emotional stress for her which made dating her uncomfortable for me, so we mutually decided to break up. But, we kept in contact and decided that we'd try just being friends since we still enjoyed spending time together. Since we weren't dating each other anymore she was able to relax and be herself without worrying about what I was doing with other women when she wasn't around, and we had a good time getting to really know each other as friends, so we decided to date again. The actual story of getting back together is a lot more passionate and uninhibited than that, but you get the point.
> 
> 
> 
> Current update: She brought up exclusivity, which this time I agreed to since I knew her better. So I am actually just dating one person now. Incidentally, this is the first time I've been close enough to a woman to agree to exclusivity since my D, despite multiple women I've dated trying to push me in that direction. We have very opposite personality types which makes me question if we'd be long term compatible, but since I'm not looking to get married again and she's going to move back to Europe in several years after her kids graduate HS, it really isn't a big deal. We're just having fun with each other and enjoying our time together. She's recently started using the GF label and dropped the L word a couple times. I could tell by her body language and behavior over the past month that it was coming so it didn't catch me off guard when it happened. I told her that I'm not quite there yet but I like that she's comfortable enough with me to be uninhibited and express her feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> Summary: I now have a cute European GF, that's worldly and cultured, highly sexual and uninhibited in bed, smart and educated, and fun to spend time with.




Sounds great to me. Can you offer some tips on how to not catch feelings when dating? I eventually start catching feelings and can’t keep it just fun. That’s when things have gone wrong in the past when I’ve started dating and also some of them have just been disrespectful which I don’t tolerate.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> Sounds great to me. Can you offer some tips on how to not catch feelings when dating? I eventually start catching feelings and can’t keep it just fun. That’s when things have gone wrong in the past when I’ve started dating and also some of them have just been disrespectful which I don’t tolerate.


It's normal to catch feelings if you date for any length of time. Just embrace it for what it is, recognize it, and don't let it control you. Additionally, dating multiple women at the same time helps immensely, until you both mutually decide to settle down with just one person. 

I recommend this to just about everyone but read Corey Wayne's book, How to be a 3% Man. You can download it free if you sign up for his e-mail list.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> It's normal to catch feelings if you date for any length of time. Just embrace it for what it is, recognize it, and don't let it control you. Additionally, dating multiple women at the same time helps immensely, until you both mutually decide to settle down with just one person.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend this to just about everyone but read Corey Wayne's book, How to be a 3% Man. You can download it free if you sign up for his e-mail list.




I downloaded his book but haven’t read it. 

Would have to be very clear with the women I’m dating that it’s casual and open relationship otherwise I would feel really bad about being with someone else if she doesn’t know it’s an open relationship.


----------



## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> I downloaded his book but haven’t read it.
> 
> Would have to be very clear with the women I’m dating that it’s casual and open relationship otherwise I would feel really bad about being with someone else if she doesn’t know it’s an open relationship.


Honesty is the ONLY thing you owe anyone else. Just be honest.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Lifescript said:


> I downloaded his book but haven’t read it.
> 
> Would have to be very clear with the women I’m dating that it’s casual and open relationship otherwise I would feel really bad about being with someone else if she doesn’t know it’s an open relationship.


I guess that's the way I am too. I really don't see any point of being in a relationship at all if it's "casual", even though I don't want to get married again. That's why I never multi-date. And I get close to people emotionally, so it wouldn't work for me.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> I downloaded his book but haven’t read it.
> 
> Would have to be very clear with the women I’m dating that it’s casual and open relationship otherwise I would feel really bad about being with someone else if she doesn’t know it’s an open relationship.



That's a difference between us. I assume everything is casual and open unless discussed and otherwise agreed to. Remember a date is not a commitment to any sort of relationship. It is just an opportunity to go out, have fun, and see if you like the other person. If you are viewing it as otherwise you're at risk of projecting the needy/relationship vibe before the woman is ready and that tends to drive them away. It's far better to just accept things as they develop without any expectations and live in the moment. Plus, if a woman thinks you have other options (which you should have) they tend to enjoy the satisfaction of locking you down, so don't take that away from them. Let them compete for you just as much as you have been competing for them. 

The way I deal with exclusivity is that I just let the women know that if it is something she wants in the future that we can discuss it and decide what is right for us.


----------



## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> That's a difference between us. I assume everything is casual and open unless discussed and otherwise agreed to. Remember a date is not a commitment to any sort of relationship. It is just an opportunity to go out, have fun, and see if you like the other person. If you are viewing it as otherwise you're at risk of projecting the needy/relationship vibe before the woman is ready and that tends to drive them away. It's far better to just accept things as they develop without any expectations and live in the moment. Plus, if a woman thinks you have other options (which you should have) they tend to enjoy the satisfaction of locking you down, so don't take that away from them. Let them compete for you just as much as you have been competing for them.
> 
> The way I deal with exclusivity is that I just let the women know that if it is something she wants in the future that we can discuss it and decide what is right for us.


This is a very good way of looking at it. 

Another way of looking at it. If you are OLD ten it is a competition where you better bet you are being compared. If you are comparing it to non online dating. Usually a quick mention towards what you are looking for is a good way of setting the expectation. IE what do you want, just dating, or a relationship / commitment. 
@Lifescript - I know we talk about male friends. Do you have any female friends as well? Preferably single just friends female friends?


----------



## Lifescript

hope4family said:


> This is a very good way of looking at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Another way of looking at it. If you are OLD ten it is a competition where you better bet you are being compared. If you are comparing it to non online dating. Usually a quick mention towards what you are looking for is a good way of setting the expectation. IE what do you want, just dating, or a relationship / commitment.
> 
> 
> @Lifescript - I know we talk about male friends. Do you have any female friends as well? Preferably single just friends female friends?




No female friends really. Well my neighbors wife and I talk and she’s cool. She’s been trying to hook me up with of her friends. But not many female friends no.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Okay, so the guy I've been seeing (a handful of times) left about half an hour ago. He and I are going to the Iowa/ISU football game tomorrow.

But, he decided it was time to have the talk. He knows I don't multi-date and neither does he - because we talked about that earlier. But tonight he said he wanted to make it clear that he is interested in me and doesn't want competition (he didn't phrase it exactly like that). It sounded almost like the 'exclusivity' talk. But by definition we are exclusive. Which to me doesn't mean I have committed to him forever; it just means that right now, I'm dating him and only him. 

So what did he mean?

I was caught kind of off-guard and didn't ask that question. I basically didn't say anything other than we will talk tomorrow.

It almost sounds like he wants to figuratively lock me in a closet so he is the only one. I don't know what I want yet - what is wrong with that?

Part of it might be that I just moved here, and I haven't met many people here yet. Maybe he doesn't want me to meet any new people and that's what he meant?

Oddly enough, I was sitting on my front step last night after dark talking to my next-door neighbor (a divorced woman my age) and she commented that the man who lives down the street (she pointed to the house) wants to meet me. Then she said, Well hell, I'll just say it, practically every man in this neighborhood wants to meet you!

So I found that to be good news, for making friends if nothing else! I don't know if that's what he's afraid of. I haven't exactly been exotically dressed around here lately when I work in my yard - mostly wearing old ripped paint clothes. 

Do I just just let the whole thing go and hope it resolves itself, or ask what he meant? :frown2:


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Okay, so the guy I've been seeing (a handful of times) left about half an hour ago. He and I are going to the Iowa/ISU football game tomorrow.
> 
> But, he decided it was time to have the talk. He knows I don't multi-date and neither does he - because we talked about that earlier. But tonight he said he wanted to make it clear that he is interested in me and doesn't want competition (he didn't phrase it exactly like that). It sounded almost like the 'exclusivity' talk. But by definition we are exclusive. Which to me doesn't mean I have committed to him forever; it just means that right now, I'm dating him and only him.
> 
> So what did he mean?
> 
> I was caught kind of off-guard and didn't ask that question. I basically didn't say anything other than we will talk tomorrow.
> 
> It almost sounds like he wants to figuratively lock me in a closet so he is the only one. I don't know what I want yet - what is wrong with that?
> 
> Part of it might be that I just moved here, and I haven't met many people here yet. Maybe he doesn't want me to meet any new people and that's what he meant?
> 
> Oddly enough, I was sitting on my front step last night after dark talking to my next-door neighbor (a divorced woman my age) and she commented that the man who lives down the street (she pointed to the house) wants to meet me. Then she said, Well hell, I'll just say it, practically every man in this neighborhood wants to meet you!
> 
> So I found that to be good news, for making friends if nothing else! I don't know if that's what he's afraid of. I haven't exactly been exotically dressed around here lately when I work in my yard - mostly wearing old ripped paint clothes.
> 
> Do I just just let the whole thing go and hope it resolves itself, or ask what he meant? :frown2:


It sounds like your scarcity thinking is in direct conflict with the reality of abundance.


----------



## Lifescript

Lifescript said:


> No female friends really. Well my neighbors wife and I talk and she’s cool. She’s been trying to hook me up with of her friends. But not many female friends no.




I was thinking this. I feel if I approach women in a friendly way to be friends that they won’t believe it and will think I have other motives.


----------



## Lifescript

Hope Shimmers said:


> Okay, so the guy I've been seeing (a handful of times) left about half an hour ago. He and I are going to the Iowa/ISU football game tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> But, he decided it was time to have the talk. He knows I don't multi-date and neither does he - because we talked about that earlier. But tonight he said he wanted to make it clear that he is interested in me and doesn't want competition (he didn't phrase it exactly like that). It sounded almost like the 'exclusivity' talk. But by definition we are exclusive. Which to me doesn't mean I have committed to him forever; it just means that right now, I'm dating him and only him.
> 
> 
> 
> So what did he mean?
> 
> 
> 
> I was caught kind of off-guard and didn't ask that question. I basically didn't say anything other than we will talk tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> It almost sounds like he wants to figuratively lock me in a closet so he is the only one. I don't know what I want yet - what is wrong with that?
> 
> 
> 
> Part of it might be that I just moved here, and I haven't met many people here yet. Maybe he doesn't want me to meet any new people and that's what he meant?
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, I was sitting on my front step last night after dark talking to my next-door neighbor (a divorced woman my age) and she commented that the man who lives down the street (she pointed to the house) wants to meet me. Then she said, Well hell, I'll just say it, practically every man in this neighborhood wants to meet you!
> 
> 
> 
> So I found that to be good news, for making friends if nothing else! I don't know if that's what he's afraid of. I haven't exactly been exotically dressed around here lately when I work in my yard - mostly wearing old ripped paint clothes.
> 
> 
> 
> Do I just just let the whole thing go and hope it resolves itself, or ask what he meant? :frown2:




Sounds like he’s having such an awesome time with you that he wants to let you know he sees you as long term. Also, he may have some baggage from before with someone leaving him because he wasn’t clear he wanted her exclusively. 

But if you are not there yet nothing wrong with letting him know that.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> It sounds like your scarcity thinking is in direct conflict with the reality of abundance.


Is my scarcity thinking wrong? I don't think it is. Not based on my life experience.



Lifescript said:


> I was thinking this. I feel if I approach women in a friendly way to be friends that they won’t believe it and will think I have other motives.


I think that friendships between men and women don't really happen from "approaching". It just sort of forms, if you meet someone and they are not a romantic candidate yet you get along with them. I agree that approaching women with the goal to be friends would probably not go over well or be believable by them.



Lifescript said:


> Sounds like he’s having such an awesome time with you that he wants to let you know he sees you as long term. Also, he may have some baggage from before with someone leaving him because he wasn’t clear he wanted her exclusively.
> 
> But if you are not there yet nothing wrong with letting him know that.


I'm not there yet. I don't want to be tied down when I have just moved here.


----------



## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Is my scarcity thinking wrong? I don't think it is. Not based on my life experience.
> 
> Actually it is. Based on your own posts. You have lamented the lack of opportunity in your life, yet now you have neighbors telling you that there are many men just in your own neighborhood that would like to meet you.
> 
> I think that friendships between men and women don't really happen from "approaching". It just sort of forms, if you meet someone and they are not a romantic candidate yet you get along with them. I agree that approaching women with the goal to be friends would probably not go over well or be believable by them.
> 
> I agree, the whole idea of "approaching" is probably not the right way to speak about. Approach implies some wanted outcome. Rather just be friendly to everybody. The friendships will either happen or they won't. If the don't it is not you fault. They just weren't open to friendship.
> 
> I'm not there yet. I don't want to be tied down when I have just moved here.


And that is perfectly fine. Just enjoy the process and let it take you where it will, with your eyes wide open.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> Would have to be very clear with the women I’m dating that it’s casual and open relationship otherwise I would feel really bad about being with someone else if she doesn’t know it’s an open relationship.





Bananapeel said:


> That's a difference between us. I assume everything is casual and open unless discussed and otherwise agreed to. Remember a date is not a commitment to any sort of relationship. It is just an opportunity to go out, have fun, and see if you like the other person. If you are viewing it as otherwise you're at risk of projecting the needy/relationship vibe before the woman is ready and that tends to drive them away. It's far better to just accept things as they develop without any expectations and live in the moment. Plus, if a woman thinks you have other options (which you should have) they tend to enjoy the satisfaction of locking you down, so don't take that away from them. Let them compete for you just as much as you have been competing for them.
> 
> The way I deal with exclusivity is that I just let the women know that if it is something she wants in the future that we can discuss it and decide what is right for us.





Hope Shimmers said:


> Okay, so the guy I've been seeing (a handful of times) left about half an hour ago. He and I are going to the Iowa/ISU football game tomorrow.
> 
> But, he decided it was time to have the talk. He knows I don't multi-date and neither does he - because we talked about that earlier. But tonight he said he wanted to make it clear that he is interested in me and doesn't want competition (he didn't phrase it exactly like that). It sounded almost like the 'exclusivity' talk. But by definition we are exclusive. Which to me doesn't mean I have committed to him forever; it just means that right now, I'm dating him and only him.
> 
> So what did he mean?
> 
> I was caught kind of off-guard and didn't ask that question. I basically didn't say anything other than we will talk tomorrow.
> 
> It almost sounds like he wants to figuratively lock me in a closet so he is the only one. I don't know what I want yet - what is wrong with that?
> 
> Part of it might be that I just moved here, and I haven't met many people here yet. Maybe he doesn't want me to meet any new people and that's what he meant?
> 
> Oddly enough, I was sitting on my front step last night after dark talking to my next-door neighbor (a divorced woman my age) and she commented that the man who lives down the street (she pointed to the house) wants to meet me. Then she said, Well hell, I'll just say it, practically every man in this neighborhood wants to meet you!
> 
> So I found that to be good news, for making friends if nothing else! I don't know if that's what he's afraid of. I haven't exactly been exotically dressed around here lately when I work in my yard - mostly wearing old ripped paint clothes.
> 
> Do I just just let the whole thing go and hope it resolves itself, or ask what he meant? :frown2:


Lifescript, remember what I said earlier about trying to lock a woman down causes you to project a needy/relationship vibe that lowers their interest. Here is Hope validating that is exactly what just happened to her. She was interested in the guy but then him pushing for a relationship before she was ready for that level of commitment is lowering her interest level and causing her to rethink things. The guy should have just lived in the moment and waited for signs/talk *from her* that she was interested in being in a committed relationship from him. It's a bit of a cat and mouse game, but the psychology behind it is really fascinating. Hope, part of the issue with this guy trying to lock you down is that you are realizing you have many options (abundance mentality) and he is acting like he has few (scarcity mentality). There's a saying that if a man treats a woman like she's out of his league, then she'll believe it. That's why his attempt at a relationship is falling flat. He'd be better off having the confidence to let the relationship develop (or not) naturally rather than trying to force a commitment out of fear.


----------



## Deejo

Singles of TAM ... Still the most prolific thread over the last 10 years. 


10 FREAKIN YEARS KID!

Kudos folks.

When people ask how my wife and I met, I just say, "We both swiped right baby."

I am willfully no longer single, but certainly remember the magical, mystery of that ecosystem.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> Lifescript, remember what I said earlier about trying to lock a woman down causes you to project a needy/relationship vibe that lowers their interest. Here is Hope validating that is exactly what just happened to her. She was interested in the guy but then him pushing for a relationship before she was ready for that level of commitment is lowering her interest level and causing her to rethink things. The guy should have just lived in the moment and waited for signs/talk *from her* that she was interested in being in a committed relationship from him. It's a bit of a cat and mouse game, but the psychology behind it is really fascinating. Hope, part of the issue with this guy trying to lock you down is that you are realizing you have many options (abundance mentality) and he is acting like he has few (scarcity mentality). There's a saying that if a man treats a woman like she's out of his league, then she'll believe it. That's why his attempt at a relationship is falling flat. He'd be better off having the confidence to let the relationship develop (or not) naturally rather than trying to force a commitment out of fear.




Yep. I see it. 

**** can hit the fan though regardless. I dated a girl who was into me from the get go. I let things develop, didn’t show my feelings or that I like her a lot until later. Well guess what? When I told her that I was developing feelings and that like her I enjoyed our time together a lot. She became more distant and eventually gave me the boot.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> Yep. I see it.
> 
> **** can hit the fan though regardless. I dated a girl who was into me from the get go. I let things develop, didn’t show my feelings or that I like her a lot until later. Well guess what? When I told her that I was developing feelings and that like her I enjoyed our time together a lot. She became more distant and eventually gave me the boot.


There could have also been other factors at play, like when she started pulling away you reacted by pushing more for a relationship instead of pulling away too? Seriously, read 3% man a few times and you'll get better at selecting for women that are really into you and you'll also get better at not chasing them away.


----------



## ne9907

@3Xnocharm I have a feeling the "friend" who has been my FB for the past 3 or 4 years was really ex h. 
After I deleted "friend" I received two FB from obviously fake profiles, but get this, we had friends in common!

So obviously I messaged my friends and they did not know the person who was sending me friends request!!

I never accept unknown request.


----------



## bkyln309

Lifescript said:


> Yep. I see it.
> 
> **** can hit the fan though regardless. I dated a girl who was into me from the get go. I let things develop, didn’t show my feelings or that I like her a lot until later. Well guess what? When I told her that I was developing feelings and that like her I enjoyed our time together a lot. She became more distant and eventually gave me the boot.


Maybe you not showing your interest from the beginning was the issue. I have been with a man 3.5 years. For the first 2 years, he was emotionally disconnected. My friends begged me to dump him. I didnt. He started showing his feelings but the first two years have created such doubt that what he is expressing now is genuine.


----------



## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> Maybe you not showing your interest from the beginning was the issue. I have been with a man 3.5 years. For the first 2 years, he was emotionally disconnected. My friends begged me to dump him. I didnt. He started showing his feelings but the first two years have created such doubt that what he is expressing now is genuine.


Um, wouldn't the fact that he was with you for the first two years be evidence that he was interested? I think in this case, you are the one having doubts now, but you are looking for a way to blame someone else for your doubts. Then some women wonder why men seem gun shy?


----------



## hope4family

Ynot said:


> Um, wouldn't the fact that he was with you for the first two years be evidence that he was interested? I think in this case, you are the one having doubts now, but you are looking for a way to blame someone else for your doubts. Then some women wonder why men seem gun shy?


Disagree. I don't think she is the one with the issue here. I dated a wonderful lady for 2 years. She wasn't sure about marriage + kids and we agreed to give it time. 

Well, I couldn't wait any longer. She at first said it was what she wanted, then suddenly got cold feet when I said Ok let's move forward. 

Point is, life happens. After 2 years of uncertainly it's perfectly normal to expect or be cautious about a sudden commitment with what has happened already for 2 years. A sudden change like that is huge when you are ready to walk away and then they come at you with the "now and forever" stuff. 

At least, in my opinion.


----------



## Ynot

hope4family said:


> Disagree. I don't think she is the one with the issue here. I dated a wonderful lady for 2 years. She wasn't sure about marriage + kids and we agreed to give it time.
> 
> Well, I couldn't wait any longer. She at first said it was what she wanted, then suddenly got cold feet when I said Ok let's move forward.
> 
> Point is, life happens. After 2 years of uncertainly it's perfectly normal to expect or be cautious about a sudden commitment with what has happened already for 2 years. A sudden change like that is huge when you are ready to walk away and then they come at you with the "now and forever" stuff.
> 
> At least, in my opinion.


Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it appears that your situation in not at all similar to the one I was responding to. OTOH, I agree that life happens, but the fact that it is now 1.5 years AFTER he overcame his emotional detachment, would lead me to believe that it is her that is getting cold feet but she is trying to blame him for it. Not saying he or she is right or wrong to get cold feet, but at least accept responsibility for something that you are feeling and not try to blame it on some crap from the past.


----------



## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it appears that your situation in not at all similar to the one I was responding to. OTOH, I agree that life happens, but the fact that it is now 1.5 years AFTER he overcame his emotional detachment, would lead me to believe that it is her that is getting cold feet but she is trying to blame him for it. Not saying he or she is right or wrong to get cold feet, but at least accept responsibility for something that you are feeling and not try to blame it on some crap from the past.


I dont have cold feet. But the fact he is glacial in dealing with the issues at hand is concerning. We have some big issues to overcome should we move forward into the next steps. I am not sure he really wants to go the distance as he has been silent on alot for so long.

The fact he lacked confidence in the beginning and played it close to the vest did not set a precedence of trust from the get go. A man holding back early on in the relationship creates a shaky foundation. Had he been more forthcoming from the beginning there would be less doubt now.


----------



## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> I dont have cold feet. But the fact he is glacial in dealing with the issues at hand is concerning. We have some big issues to overcome should we move forward into the next steps. I am not sure he really wants to go the distance as he has been silent on alot for so long.
> 
> The fact he lacked confidence in the beginning and played it close to the vest did not set a precedence of trust from the get go. A man holding back early on in the relationship creates a shaky foundation. Had he been more forthcoming from the beginning there would be less doubt now.


But his cold feet did not stop YOU from sticking around for the first 2 years nor the 1.5 years since. You accepted his cold feet then otherwise you wouldn't have stuck around. As I said, I think you are using this as an excuse for your current state of doubt.


----------



## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> But his cold feet did not stop YOU from sticking around for the first 2 years nor the 1.5 years since. You accepted his cold feet then otherwise you wouldn't have stuck around. As I said, I think you are using this as an excuse for your current state of doubt.


What can I say I tend to tough it out even when I should throw in the towel (I should have divorced my X at year 5 not 15.5). Didnt really accept it. I coped with it. It put distance between us that didnt have to be there.


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> Maybe you not showing your interest from the beginning was the issue. I have been with a man 3.5 years. For the first 2 years, he was emotionally disconnected. My friends begged me to dump him. I didnt. He started showing his feelings but the first two years have created such doubt that what he is expressing now is genuine.



It could be. But this felt more like she was chasing me and chasing and chasing but then when I started to show interest and affection (which she said she wanted) she suddenly changed and became distant slowly but surely.


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> I dont have cold feet. But the fact he is glacial in dealing with the issues at hand is concerning. We have some big issues to overcome should we move forward into the next steps. I am not sure he really wants to go the distance as he has been silent on alot for so long.
> 
> The fact he lacked confidence in the beginning and played it close to the vest did not set a precedence of trust from the get go. A man holding back early on in the relationship creates a shaky foundation. Had he been more forthcoming from the beginning there would be less doubt now.




This doesn’t bode well for me. I know for sure I will be guarded and have been guarded when meeting women and is because I have been lied to and deceived many times. I hope the lady in my future has patience and understanding. It will need time and will have to grow organically.


----------



## Lifescript

It’s Friday. My ex coworker didn’t text like she said she would to let me know if she could meet up today. 

Thought of texting her but her not resting is a clear sign she is not interested as I though. Guess it was the booze.


----------



## hope4family

bkyln309 said:


> What can I say I tend to tough it out even when I should throw in the towel (I should have divorced my X at year 5 not 15.5). Didnt really accept it. I coped with it. It put distance between us that didnt have to be there.


In my opinion, where you are probably at fault. Your friends tell you someone isn't good for you and you don't listen. 

Now you have 1 or 2 types of friends. The one that give you the medicine, but at the very least they love you and knowing you they have an idea what will or wont work for you. Or the ones that smile and go with it, one way or another always giving bad or selfish advice. 
@Ynot - I certainly notice where you are coming from. What I have learned, is that a lot of relationships for whatever reason sound familiar, but each time there is there own particular twist or turn in the story. Another thing I have learned, is that good advice, is always good advice. Overall, I thought your advice was good. There is a reason why these "voices of doubt" can be in our head. It might have nothing to do with her fault, in my opinion. 
@bkyln309 - I know why I wait in relationships. That's like a huge huge huge issue that I am working through. I'll keep myself positive about it. I would encourage you to navigate the answer as to why you didn't break up with your first husband, and maybe this second relationship before going into any further level of commitment. (IF You haven't already remarried.) If you have, work on resolving your emotions about it, and give him the love you both deserve. As it seems at the very least he is genuine.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bkyln309 said:


> What can I say I tend to tough it out even when I should throw in the towel (I should have divorced my X at year 5 not 15.5). Didnt really accept it. I coped with it. It put distance between us that didnt have to be there.


Omg you too?? This is very much me! In fact, I am pretty much here right now.


----------



## bkyln309

hope4family said:


> In my opinion, where you are probably at fault. Your friends tell you someone isn't good for you and you don't listen.
> 
> Now you have 1 or 2 types of friends. The one that give you the medicine, but at the very least they love you and knowing you they have an idea what will or wont work for you. Or the ones that smile and go with it, one way or another always giving bad or selfish advice.
> 
> @Ynot - I certainly notice where you are coming from. What I have learned, is that a lot of relationships for whatever reason sound familiar, but each time there is there own particular twist or turn in the story. Another thing I have learned, is that good advice, is always good advice. Overall, I thought your advice was good. There is a reason why these "voices of doubt" can be in our head. It might have nothing to do with her fault, in my opinion.
> 
> @bkyln309 - I know why I wait in relationships. That's like a huge huge huge issue that I am working through. I'll keep myself positive about it. I would encourage you to navigate the answer as to why you didn't break up with your first husband, and maybe this second relationship before going into any further level of commitment. (IF You haven't already remarried.) If you have, work on resolving your emotions about it, and give him the love you both deserve. As it seems at the very least he is genuine.


I was talked into staying with my ex by my Christian pastors and friends. The death do us part LIE. HUGE mistake. Spent years fighting the guilt of wanting out until I couldnt take it anymore. My ex did try to alter his ways for a few years but what I now know, people do not change. The core of their character stays the same. He is still spinning in his major issues even after all this time.

My current BF is a good guy. I am just not sure that our futures align despite the fact he says he is interested in that. We are in two very different stages of life. He says he doesnt mind my kids but he doesnt get involved in their lives.


----------



## hope4family

Lifescript said:


> It’s Friday. My ex coworker didn’t text like she said she would to let me know if she could meet up today.
> 
> Thought of texting her but her not resting is a clear sign she is not interested as I though. Guess my hot body, the atmosphere, the sudden discovery of mutual feeling and forbidden office love, the steemy kiss, and perhaps too much tongue and booze was enough to leave it as a "good memory category for her and me."


Fixed. Happy Friday man. She could also be lazy and overly embarrassed. On to the next one. You want someone where the level of effort is a scooch easier.


----------



## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> I was talked into staying with my ex by my Christian pastors and friends. The death do us part LIE. HUGE mistake. Spent years fighting the guilt of wanting out until I couldnt take it anymore. My ex did try to alter his ways for a few years but what I now know, people do not change. The core of their character stays the same. He is still spinning in his major issues even after all this time.
> 
> My current BF is a good guy. I am just not sure that our futures align despite the fact he says he is interested in that. We are in two very different stages of life. He says he doesnt mind my kids but he doesnt get involved in their lives.


IMO, there is nothing wrong with being in different places. Things happen, it sounds like you have good reason to feel as you do. My point was just that you shouldn't try blaming how you feel now on how others were then. At the time how was then, must have been acceptable to you. But now you feel differently. That is fine, but it is how you feel now, not how he was then. Unless, what you are saying is that as long as he wasn't serious, you were OK with it, but now that he is getting serious, you are not quite so comfortable. But then, that is not how you have come across. Just be honest, first and foremost with yourself but also with him. 
I am not busting your chops. But I have been in similar situations, most notably with my ex. She tried to pawn the whole thing off on me. For years I felt a great deal of guilt. But now I realize at that time, I was only doing the best that I knew how to do at that time. If I knew then what I know now, things would have been very different. And the thing is, even now she still is incapable of being honest.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> It’s Friday. My ex coworker didn’t text like she said she would to let me know if she could meet up today.
> 
> Thought of texting her but her not resting is a clear sign she is not interested as I though. Guess it was the booze.


Don't text her! She said she would text and she didn't. If you were to text a woman that is blowing you off you'd just come off as weak and needy. It sucks, but it wasn't unexpected. If she does contact you for a last minute date tell her you can't because you've already got plans this weekend but then ask her for her schedule next weekend and set a definitive date then. Never do a last minute date because it conveys you don't have a life. Your "plans" for this weekend could be doing laundry and walking your dog, but don't share them and don't change them for her. Also, this might not be over. I've been contacted by women I've asked out over a year after (turned out she had a BF but remembered me and contacted me after they broke up), so just put her in the maybe category and go out with other women.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it appears that your situation in not at all similar to the one I was responding to. OTOH, I agree that life happens, but the fact that it is now 1.5 years AFTER he overcame his emotional detachment, would lead me to believe that it is her that is getting cold feet but she is trying to blame him for it. Not saying he or she is right or wrong to get cold feet, but at least accept responsibility for something that you are feeling and not try to blame it on some crap from the past.






bkyln309 said:


> I dont have cold feet. But the fact he is glacial in dealing with the issues at hand is concerning. We have some big issues to overcome should we move forward into the next steps. I am not sure he really wants to go the distance as he has been silent on alot for so long.
> 
> The fact he lacked confidence in the beginning and played it close to the vest did not set a precedence of trust from the get go. A man holding back early on in the relationship creates a shaky foundation. Had he been more forthcoming from the beginning there would be less doubt now.


I have to say, I'm with @bkyln309 here, and see where she is coming from. If Real Estate came back to me a year [and a half] from now, and said that he was over his commitment issues and wanted to get back together, I would be skeptical and cautious until he backed up those words with actions extensively.

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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> I have to say, I'm with @bkyln309 here, and see where she is coming from. If Real Estate came back to me a year [and a half] from now, and said that he was over his commitment issues and wanted to get back together, I would be skeptical and cautious until he backed up those words with actions extensively.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


But again, this guy didn't break it off or go away for a year and a half. He was there the whole time and bklyn309 was fine with it. Otherwise I agree because to come back after breaking it off would be a different situation altogether.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> But again, this guy didn't break it off or go away for a year and a half. He was there the whole time and bklyn309 was fine with it. Otherwise I agree because to come back after breaking it off would be a different situation altogether.


Good point.

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## Hope Shimmers

I am just done.

I don't know what to do. I want Brian L back but I won't get him back because he won't hear me and already has someone else to marry. 

I am thinking of going back to my ex-husband, just as what I should do at 54 years of age (today, happy birthday to me). I've been divorced since 2011. I know he wants me back. I think about our kids (adults now), future grandkids. Wouldn't it be easier? If I could deal with it?

He was emotionally abusive during our 15 year marriage; not physically abusive until the end when he hit me in the face and raped me.


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> I am just done.
> 
> I don't know what to do. I want Brian L back but I won't get him back because he won't hear me and already has someone else to marry.
> 
> I am thinking of going back to my ex-husband, just as what I should do at 54 years of age (today, happy birthday to me). I've been divorced since 2011. I know he wants me back. I think about our kids (adults now), future grandkids. Wouldn't it be easier? If I could deal with it?
> 
> He was emotionally abusive during our 15 year marriage; not physically abusive until the end when he hit me in the face and raped me.


So being abused, beaten and raped is better than being alone? I think you need to keep working on yourself.
I am not sure where this is coming from, but seriously Hope, you are an intelligent, well educated woman. Stop and think about what you are saying here.


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## minimalME

Hope Shimmers said:


> ...at 54 years of age (today, happy birthday to me).


Happy Birthday!!!


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## sunsetmist

Hope Shimmers said:


> I am just done.
> 
> I don't know what to do. I want Brian L back but I won't get him back because he won't hear me and already has someone else to marry.
> 
> I am thinking of going back to my ex-husband, just as what I should do at 54 years of age (today, happy birthday to me). I've been divorced since 2011. I know he wants me back. I think about our kids (adults now), future grandkids. Wouldn't it be easier? If I could deal with it?
> 
> He was emotionally abusive during our 15 year marriage; not physically abusive until the end when he hit me in the face and raped me.


Birthday blessings to you. You have many good years ahead of you!

You are thinking about going back to an emotionally and physically abusive marriage as what you *should do*?

To me this is unclear thinking. Once physical abuse has occurred, it is easier the next time. Emotional abuse is just as damaging if not more so. Is someone else putting these ideas into your head? What kind of example will you really be setting for kids and grand-kids?

Is this depression speaking? Please think long and hard before settling....


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## Hope Shimmers

The night he hit me, it was something I could see. I could look in the mirror and SEE it. It was proof. Before that I kept thinking that if I did X or didn't do Y then I would fix it. But finally there was proof.

My family could see it, all of those years we were married. My mom, dad, siblings. They begged me to get out. But I had to have a fist in my eye to SEE it. It only happened once, and it healed. All the emotional/verbal abuse crap doesn't heal. But still, I had to see it to get out.


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## Hope Shimmers

I hate reading posts on here about how women cheat on their husbands who are great to them. I hate it.


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## Hope Shimmers

It's my ex-husband who drives me into the corner crying. I wish I could learn to ignore him, but it's been 15 years of marriage plus 11 years of divorce, and it hasn't stopped.

He attacks me. He usually does it by text. He will just send text after text saying that i am a worthless b$tch, that I'm a horrible mom since I don't throw money at the kids, etc. He does it for HOURS on end. At the end of the barrage, I am just literally crying in a corner somewhere.


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's my ex-husband who drives me into the corner crying. I wish I could learn to ignore him, but it's been 15 years of marriage plus 11 years of divorce, and it hasn't stopped.
> 
> He attacks me. He usually does it by text. He will just send text after text saying that i am a worthless b$tch, that I'm a horrible mom since I don't throw money at the kids, etc. He does it for HOURS on end. At the end of the barrage, I am just literally crying in a corner somewhere.


Block him, do not respond, do not allow him to live in your head rent free. He is what is holding back, because you are letting him. IMO anyone who bullies, cajoles, threatens or physically strikes another person is a worthless POS. I wish you could adopt the same attitude. This guy is not worthy of your concern, regardless of the fact that he was your husband and is the father of your children. If you just ignore him, he will go away. That is what bullies do, they look for weak people to pick on. Become strong.


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## Bananapeel

I agree 100% with Ynot. Your kids are adults so there is absolutely no need to have any contact with him again. Block him on your phone, block him on all social media, and ignore any other attempts at contact. By blocking him you are taking the control rather than leaving it up to him, which is empowering.


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## Bananapeel

Hope Shimmers said:


> I hate reading posts on here about how women cheat on their husbands who are great to them. I hate it.


But, usually the guys end up much better off without those women in their lives. So there's a silver lining.


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## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's my ex-husband who drives me into the corner crying. I wish I could learn to ignore him, but it's been 15 years of marriage plus 11 years of divorce, and it hasn't stopped.
> 
> He attacks me. He usually does it by text. He will just send text after text saying that i am a worthless b$tch, that I'm a horrible mom since I don't throw money at the kids, etc. He does it for HOURS on end. At the end of the barrage, I am just literally crying in a corner somewhere.


Why the F* do you allow this????? Block his ass! If he finds another way to contact you then get ahold of authorities and report him for harassment! And, I say this with all the love I can muster... you are INSANE if you seriously think about going back to this piece of crap! Get yourself some help!


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## SentHereForAReason

Bananapeel said:


> But, usually the guys end up much better off without those women in their lives. So there's a silver lining.


I never wanted to believe this when I was in the midst of everything (the denial). Then came the I sure hope it's that way but it's tough to see now. And then at the stage I am at now where the guilt of enjoying myself is starting to dissipate and the zest of life coming back.


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## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> But, usually the guys end up much better off without those women in their lives. So there's a silver lining.


It mean doesn't they race off into the world and find someone better either. Rather, they discover the true meaning of the word gaslighting and discover that life can be so much easier when you don't have the emotional /physical abandonment to worry about. 


Overall I agree. I am 100% better off being alone then with my ex.


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## honcho

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's my ex-husband who drives me into the corner crying. I wish I could learn to ignore him, but it's been 15 years of marriage plus 11 years of divorce, and it hasn't stopped.
> 
> He attacks me. He usually does it by text. He will just send text after text saying that i am a worthless b$tch, that I'm a horrible mom since I don't throw money at the kids, etc. He does it for HOURS on end. At the end of the barrage, I am just literally crying in a corner somewhere.


Play hardball with the clown. Show a lawyer the texts, have him draw up no contact letter and send it to ex with the clear understanding he breaks it you go get a restraining order. This is harassment, the courts hand them out like candy and you got divorced so you wouldn't have to endure this sort of treatment.


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## hope4family

honcho said:


> Play hardball with the clown. Show a lawyer the texts, have him draw up no contact letter and send it to ex with the clear understanding he breaks it you go get a restraining order. This is harassment, the courts hand them out like candy and you got divorced so you wouldn't have to endure this sort of treatment.


I was going to type out this exact same response once I got out of work. However, I want to type out a response adding this food for thought. 

Hope it sounds like you are a brave person who is always used to dealing with problems on their own. I want you to breathe, and know that it IS OK to get a lawyer and make it stop. Most people on the PLANET do not treat other people this way. It is harassment and abuse and worthy of a restraining order in most states if you live in the US. 

Take this from someone who was used to getting verbally threatened (and having to physically defend himself) my whole life and one day woke up when talking to a District Attorney and realized that this behavior was not legal! 

My heart goes out for you.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's my ex-husband who drives me into the corner crying. I wish I could learn to ignore him, but it's been 15 years of marriage plus 11 years of divorce, and it hasn't stopped.
> 
> He attacks me. He usually does it by text. He will just send text after text saying that i am a worthless b$tch, that I'm a horrible mom since I don't throw money at the kids, etc. He does it for HOURS on end. At the end of the barrage, I am just literally crying in a corner somewhere.


Hope, re-read what you have posted here. If this was written by your daughter or your sister or your best friend, would you encourage them to tolerate this behavior? Would you encourage them to get back together with a man like this?

No, you wouldn't. You would tell them that they deserve better than this.

YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS.

I'm not sure that you realize that. Actually, I know you don't... if you loved yourself enough to internalize that you deserve better than your XH's abusive behavior, you would have established and reinforced that boundary by blocking him ages ago.

Hope, why do you think you deserve this type of treatment? Because you don't deserve this. You deserve love, and to be treated well. YOU ARE LOVEABLE. What he is offering you isn't love. He is using you as an emotional punching bag, and if you go back to him, you will eventually become a physical punching bag.

This man doesn't deserve the emotional and mental space he is taking up in your life. You need to give him the boot, block him, and enforce boundaries.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## sunsetmist

Hope Shimmers said:


> I hate reading posts on here about how women cheat on their husbands who are great to them. I hate it.


I'm thinking you hate the pain and hopelessness that emanate from the situation and the knowing you have of the process.

You deserved a husband who was great to you! Life is sooo unfair sometimes.

You describe so many years of mistreatment--you are almost comfortable with what you know--his ongoing abuse. It takes so much emotional energy to change the norm, but you are strong enough to do it.


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## Hope Shimmers

It's just been a really long time that I have had to deal with him. Twenty-six years plus the time before we got married.

Every time I read that someone thinks I should block and ignore him, it reads to me like blocking and ignoring my kids. We have a legal agreement (that I signed in 2007) to put our kids through college. We still have one to go.

I just can't put into words what his crap does to me. 

I'm not going back to him. But it is guilt.


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## Hope Shimmers

It's not new. Everyone knows he has anger issues. He got fired from his first professional job, and that was after they made him take anger management courses (waste of time)


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's just been a really long time that I have had to deal with him. Twenty-six years plus the time before we got married.
> 
> Every time I read that someone thinks I should block and ignore him, it reads to me like blocking and ignoring my kids. We have a legal agreement (that I signed in 2007) to put our kids through college. We still have one to go.
> 
> I just can't put into words what his crap does to me.
> 
> I'm not going back to him. But it is guilt.


Your ex is not your kids. So blocking him is nothing like blocking your kids. Your kids are adults (even if they are in college). If you need to communicate with them, you should be able to do it directly and not thru him. If they need something he is to provide, they can contact him. At this point there should be little for you to coordinate with him. If there is advise him to limit any and all communications to only be pertaining to your kids and to otherwise go screw himself.


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## FeministInPink

In other news, the last couple of days have been rough for me. 

I opted not to go to kink/sex camp over Labor Day weekend, because I knew it would be painful and would make me miserable. Not to mention that it would cost me an arm and a leg, because Real Estate had all our camping gear (he paid for it, he gets to keep it), so I would have to pay to stay in a cabin. And as those dates came and went, I knew that I had made the right call in not going.

I had not been to a kink event or club since Real Estate and I broke up... and I have never been to a kink event or club without him. I met him at a munch [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munch_(BDSM) ] when I was just starting to learn about the kink scene.

This past Saturday, two [kinkster] friends were coming up to DC to attend a big event at a local club; during the day, there's a vendor fair, and in the evening, there's a big play party. I decided to meet them for the vendor fair and lunch, but I was on the fence about going to the play party in the evening. I wasn't sure if I was ready, and this club would have a lot of memories for me, so I wanted to see how I did at the vendor fair.

That went well, and I felt encouraged enough to go to the play party in the evening. One of my friends said she would love to top me in a rope scene, and assured me that even though she is bisexual, rope (for her) is completely non-sexual. I've always wanted to do more rope, but Real Estate never wanted to put in the time and effort necessary to really learn it (even though he said he wanted to), so that convinced me to come out to the play party.

I got to the party, and we were able to start our rope scene right away, and initially I was fine as she started the ties. I let my mind go blank and just kind of surrendered to the sensations... which is where I went wrong. Letting my mind go blank allowef everything else to rush in, all these memories and emotions, and I just lost it and started sobbing, which caused my friend to panic and frantically get me out of the rope.

I was so miserable being there without him, and realized I've been suppressing a lot. I'm just really unhappy without him. I've been frustrated by the job search and the financial difficulties created by being underemployed, but the fact that I had him in my life made all that bearable. But now I don't. And it really, really sucks. And this has put me in a funk that will not go away.

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## Elizabeth001

Fip...yes it WILL go away. Stay strong. Accept the lows and process. Set goals and concentrate on them. You’ve got this. 

As has been said before, I am in the exact same place as you with the employment situation. I get it...I really do. I’ve just decided to buckle down and be the best I can at whatever I do and if something different/better comes along, super. The pay SUCKS! I finally sat down and did a budget and I can do it with a tiny bit left over (without tapping into 401k) if I discipline myself to spend better. I can do it...I’ve done it before.

I do sometimes think it would have been so much easier if I had stayed in my marriage. I wasn’t prepared for getting laid off. I do remember that some things aren’t worth the money though. Or whatever currency you place on your relationship. I hope you meet someone who is the best match for you and wish you true happiness. It will happen. Stay positive and look forward. 

((((fip))))


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## Hope Shimmers

Thanks to all of you for your messages. Especially YNot. I won't take up any more space here.

FIP..... I don't understand your lifestyle so I can't comment on that part. But, I am wondering if Real Estate is really out of your life. Is he? Is there any chance you could make it work?

It's worth it, if he's a great guy, treats you right, and you miss him.


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## Ynot

First off @Hope Shimmers you are not wasting space here, that is what this place is about. So feel free to post whatever. We all need a 2"x4" upside the head once in a while, at least I know I do.
Secondly @FeministInPink, ask yourself why you are underemployed. More than likely because the time you could have spent looking for something better was taken up by something else, like time with RE. Now you are free to improve our situation. 
Both of you keep your chin up and get back to enjoying life!


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## personofinterest

Feminist in pink, I am not single, but I happened upon your long post about missing your old boyfriend. Was he the dominant? I can't remember if you say it. I think that the really intense trust that it takes to be in that sort of lifestyle relationship makes a break up take on a whole new level of toughness. I'm not dismissing all other break UPS. I'm just saying that particular style of relationship creates this level of bonding and surrender that I would think makes breaking up gut wrenching. Please give yourself time to mourn and don't feel badd about taking the healing slow. I was only a part of that lifestyle for a short time, but I was able to see just how in tents the bonding is. Just sending you a hug. I'll go back with the old married people now lol


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> I was so miserable being there without him, and realized I've been suppressing a lot. I'm just really unhappy without him. I've been frustrated by the job search and the financial difficulties created by being underemployed, but the fact that I had him in my life made all that bearable. But now I don't. And it really, really sucks. And this has put me in a funk that will not go away.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I am SO sorry to read that you are struggling with all of this, I don't like seeing that you are so unhappy. I can relate to being underemployed, for sure. Maybe let yourself wallow for a bit, then punch your resume up and get searching for real.


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## FeministInPink

I'm doing a little better today. Thanks for the comments. I will respond to each a little later tonight... I'm at work right now, so I can't immediately.

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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> @FeministInPink, ask yourself why you are underemployed. More than likely because the time you could have spent looking for something better was taken up by something else, like time with RE. Now you are free to improve our situation.
> Both of you keep your chin up and get back to enjoying life!


I am underemployed because I left a toxic work environment last year, and couldn't stomach the idea of going back right into another office job immediately. It took about 6+months at the two jobs I'm working right now to rebuild my professional confidence, but I also have no idea of what I want to do. I've been applying for jobs that interest me and for which I'm well-qualified, but I'm not even getting interviews. I'm using my network to get my foot in the door, but it's not working for me. I know I'm not applying for ENOUGH jobs, and I find the whole process overwhelming and it makes me anxious.




Hope Shimmers said:


> Thanks to all of you for your messages. Especially YNot. I won't take up any more space here.
> 
> FIP..... I don't understand your lifestyle so I can't comment on that part. But, I am wondering if Real Estate is really out of your life. Is he? Is there any chance you could make it work?
> 
> It's worth it, if he's a great guy, treats you right, and you miss him.


Hope, I know where you're coming from with this, and your heart is in the right place. But trying to get him back and re-starting the relationship will be time and energy poorly spent.

Yes, he's a great guy; yes, he treated me wonderfully; yes, I miss him. And I'm sure he misses me, too.

But he has issues with commitment and is emotionally unavailable, and if we get back together without him working on those issues with a therapist, I will be in this exact same spot a year from now. We have broken up before, for the exact same reasons, and have reconciled before. I cannot continue to do the same thing and expect different results, and I am not going to put myself in a position where I know he will break my heart AGAIN.

If he sees fit to see a therapist, makes strides towards emotional availability, realizes he made a mistake in breaking up with me, and wants to try again, then I will consider it. But he is a stubborn man, and hoping that all four of these will happen is wishful thinking at best.

This is part of the grieving process, and I just have to work through it.

He's not completely out of my life. I asked for a month of no contact after the breakup, and we exchanged a few texts and spoke on the phone for about an hour last week. This may have played a part in what happened on Saturday, but I can't say for sure.

He wants to still be friend after all this, and I'm not sure what he thinks that will entail. I also don't know if that is right for me, or not.

And you're not "taking up space." Please don't stop posting. We are here for you.



personofinterest said:


> Feminist in pink, I am not single, but I happened upon your long post about missing your old boyfriend. Was he the dominant? I can't remember if you say it. I think that the really intense trust that it takes to be in that sort of lifestyle relationship makes a break up take on a whole new level of toughness. I'm not dismissing all other break UPS. I'm just saying that particular style of relationship creates this level of bonding and surrender that I would think makes breaking up gut wrenching. Please give yourself time to mourn and don't feel badd about taking the healing slow. I was only a part of that lifestyle for a short time, but I was able to see just how in tents the bonding is. Just sending you a hug. I'll go back with the old married people now lol


Yes, he was the dominant. He primarily identifies simply as a kinkster or an exhibitionist, but in our relationship he took on the role of dominant, but in a sexual sense only. He does have a dominant personality, but the rest of our relationship was still very egalitarian, even though the D/s dynamic was always there, because a romantic relationship is a sexual relationship. And this dynamic--and all the physical things that went along with it--required a great deal of trust and honesty, and opened up both of us to significant vulnerability. I don't think I've ever trusted anyone as much and as implicitly as I have trusted Real Estate... and I think that goes both ways. So, yes, the bond was very strong.

I'm not sure that kinky breakups are more difficult/intense than vanilla breakups, but I have heard that from other sources as well, and this certainly seems to apply in my situation. I think it's a lot more than that, though. 

Thanks for the hugs and kind words.



3Xnocharm said:


> I am SO sorry to read that you are struggling with all of this, I don't like seeing that you are so unhappy. I can relate to being underemployed, for sure. Maybe let yourself wallow for a bit, then punch your resume up and get searching for real.


Thank you. I really don't like being unhappy, either. But the lows help you appreciate the highs, I suppose.

I've been applying for jobs I'm perfectly qualified for, and it seems like I can't even get an interview, even when I take advantage and use my network. It's been very discouraging.

The resume has already been punched multiple times. I don't know what else I can do, frankly, except apply for every job under the sun and see what sticks. I may have to apply for higher ed admissions jobs (which I was doing previously), even though I would rather stick a fork in my eye than do that again.

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## FeministInPink

Interestingly enough, I learned today that there is a workshop at a local kink club tomorrow night, titled "Surviving the Ending of a Committed Power-Exchange Relationship." And I happen to have tomorrow evening off work, so I'm going to try to make it. It's in Baltimore, and I have to leave directly from work and fight rush hour traffic, but I think it will be worth going.

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## FeministInPink

And... a mutual acquaintance of Real Estate and myself just found out that RE and I split, and he wasted no time. He just asked me out.

Not going there. He's poly (I've actually posted about/described this guy's relationships/dynamics on TAM before), and I don't want any of that, I don't do poly. I knew that he was into me, but he's always been respectful of my relationship with RE. I let him down gently, and let him know that I am monogamous by choice, not circumstance.

It did boost my ego a little bit, though.

I was very tempted to text Real Estate and tell him about it, because he and I have previously discussed this guy's interest in me on several occasions, and I thought he might get a kick out of it. But then I decided that it's probably better that I not.

So I posted it here instead.

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## Hope Shimmers

FeministInPink said:


> And... a mutual acquaintance of Real Estate and myself just found out that RE and I split, and he wasted no time. He just asked me out.
> 
> Not going there. He's poly (I've actually posted about/described this guy's relationships/dynamics on TAM before), and I don't want any of that, I don't do poly. I knew that he was into me, but he's always been respectful of my relationship with RE. I let him down gently, and let him know that I am monogamous by choice, not circumstance.
> 
> It did boost my ego a little bit, though.
> 
> I was very tempted to text Real Estate and tell him about it, because he and I have previously discussed this guy's interest in me on several occasions, and I thought he might get a kick out of it. But then I decided that it's probably better that I not.
> 
> So I posted it here instead.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It's probably better that you didn't text RE about it. But it's an ego booster for sure.

I have to apologize for putting you in the position of defending your decision of ending things with RE. I just really want you to be happy.

The job thing is really hard to deal with and it takes a toll on self confidence. Just keep applying and something will happen. It will. i know the feeling, though. Every time you don't get an interview for an application, you wonder what's wrong with you. The answer is, nothing. Sometimes I think that 95% of the posted jobs are only posted for the benefit of Human Resources so they can prove they didn't discriminate and hire from inside before advertising the position. Of COURSE they hire from inside. Hard battle to fight.

I guess I was thinking (and didn't express it well) that RE might work to get past his commitment phobia issues. You two were together for quite awhile. He might still step up. If he's ever going to be with anyone for any length of time, he's going to have to deal with it.

Not sure I would be his "friend". That just gives him the benefit of having you in his life and still not changing. 

You are a strong woman.

I've changed my own attitude today, about 180 degrees. If someone doesn't want me as Plan A, then so be it. My ex Charger tried to get me to be with him, to see him, while he was with his supposed fiancee. I don't want a man who is capable of that, and I feel sorry for her because she knows she will never be his Plan A. Not that I ever was either; I was his Plan Nothing. 

But I can do better than that.

I predict, FIP, that you and RE might not be totally over yet. Please be careful.

The workshop tomorrow sounds like it might really help. Will be thinking of you.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's probably better that you didn't text RE about it. But it's an ego booster for sure.
> 
> I have to apologize for putting you in the position of defending your decision of ending things with RE. I just really want you to be happy.
> 
> The job thing is really hard to deal with and it takes a toll on self confidence. Just keep applying and something will happen. It will. i know the feeling, though. Every time you don't get an interview for an application, you wonder what's wrong with you. The answer is, nothing. Sometimes I think that 95% of the posted jobs are only posted for the benefit of Human Resources so they can prove they didn't discriminate and hire from inside before advertising the position. Of COURSE they hire from inside. Hard battle to fight.
> 
> I guess I was thinking (and didn't express it well) that RE might work to get past his commitment phobia issues. You two were together for quite awhile. He might still step up. If he's ever going to be with anyone for any length of time, he's going to have to deal with it.
> 
> Not sure I would be his "friend". That just gives him the benefit of having you in his life and still not changing.
> 
> You are a strong woman.
> 
> I've changed my own attitude today, about 180 degrees. If someone doesn't want me as Plan A, then so be it. My ex Charger tried to get me to be with him, to see him, while he was with his supposed fiancee. I don't want a man who is capable of that, and I feel sorry for her because she knows she will never be his Plan A. Not that I ever was either; I was his Plan Nothing.
> 
> But I can do better than that.
> 
> I predict, FIP, that you and RE might not be totally over yet. Please be careful.
> 
> The workshop tomorrow sounds like it might really help. Will be thinking of you.


Just to clarify, he ended the relationship, not me. And I didn't feel like I needed to defend anything, so no apologies necessary.

I'm feeling the same way about the friendship. And what's in it for me, really? He gets to keep me around, and I'm just reminded that he wants me, but not quite enough? Yeah, I don't know about that... like you said, I want to be his plan A. Not his back up plan.

I think you're right about 95% of the jobs... unfortunately, that's never worked in my favor! On more than one occasion, I've been the internal favorite candidate, but they still interview multiple people for the exact reasons described above... and I lose the position to an external candidate. WTF?

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## Hope Shimmers

FeministInPink said:


> Just to clarify, he ended the relationship, not me. And I didn't feel like I needed to defend anything, so no apologies necessary.
> 
> I'm feeling the same way about the friendship. And what's in it for me, really? He gets to keep me around, and I'm just reminded that he wants me, but not quite enough? Yeah, I don't know about that... like you said, I want to be his plan A. Not his back up plan.
> 
> I think you're right about 95% of the jobs... unfortunately, that's never worked in my favor! On more than one occasion, I've been the internal favorite candidate, but they still interview multiple people for the exact reasons described above... and I lose the position to an external candidate. WTF?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know... sorry. You are monogamous, and he didn't want that. So he broke up with you.

I don't think there's anything in it for you, in terms of a friendship. 

Same story goes for external candidates. Even back in the 1990's when I was hiring people at a state university. Had to advertise the position; already had a candidate basically hired for it. It sucks.

Be glad you had the guts to get out of a crappy job from before. I did the same. I worked at a company for a couple of years and walked out in 2012. And I mean, I walked out, literally. No notice. But I was a single mom; my daughter had a chronic disease; and they would not support me. I could have worked from home 2 days a week or so and got the same amount, or more, done. And I did. I couldn't always find a babysitter, so I worked from home when I had to. I remember being on the damn phone while holding my daughter's hair back when she was throwing up in the toilet.

It's just not worth it. It's not worth giving up your family and your soul. It isn't.

And you know what I was making when I walked out? $360,000 a year. lol And great benefits. So okay, money can't buy the important things, and I allowed them to hire someone else. Still stings a little though 

Hope your program goes well tonight, and hang in. It's going to get better for both of us.


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## FeministInPink

Oh, I don't think being monogamous was the issue. Real Estate just wasn't "sure" about me, and his insecurities lead him to believe that I will grow cold and leave him eventually. In his mind, it is better to break things off before I can leave and hurt him.

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## Hope Shimmers

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, I don't think being monogamous was the issue. Real Estate just wasn't "sure" about me, and his insecurities lead him to believe that I will grow cold and leave him eventually. In his mind, it is better to break things off before I can leave and hurt him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Okay. I am sorry I didn't understand all of it.

I'm out. I'm a mess, but I still love Charger But he is in love with Amazon woman (I call her that because she is like twice my size).

He never loved me, and loves Amazon Woman now. I need to move on.


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, I don't think being monogamous was the issue. Real Estate just wasn't "sure" about me, and his insecurities lead him to believe that I will grow cold and leave him eventually. In his mind, it is better to break things off before I can leave and hurt him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I remember you talking about him before but I can’t recall was he cheated on and heart broken? I was in the same boat if so and it has taken me years and years to heal. Finally took a woman to stand by my side no matter what I could or couldn’t give and as it turned out the more she stayed, and never asked for anything, the more I willing give. I am now close to purposing which I never ever ever thought possible but her patience and understanding wore me down and built trust. I think it’s hard for some men to recover from being cheated on especially when they were good husbands. Took me 6 years to get to this place with her. Just wondered if he was in the same situation as I was.


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> I remember you talking about him before but I can’t recall was he cheated on and heart broken? I was in the same boat if so and it has taken me years and years to heal. Finally took a woman to stand by my side no matter what I could or couldn’t give and as it turned out the more she stayed, and never asked for anything, the more I willing give. I am now close to purposing which I never ever ever thought possible but her patience and understanding wore me down and built trust. I think it’s hard for some men to recover from being cheated on especially when they were good husbands. Took me 6 years to get to this place with her. Just wondered if he was in the same situation as I was.


 @Wolf1974 That's exactly it... not to mention his FOO issues. I have been willing to stand by his side, and have tried to do so... it has been very hard to do so when he pushes me away (and breaks up with me). I've never pushed him or asked for more than he is capable of at any point in time. And the amount in which he's grown and healed over the last 2.5 years is palpable, and I can only imagine where he would be if given 6 years together.

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## FeministInPink

I killed the Singles thread 

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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I killed the Singles thread


Just not sure what else to say FIP, or what is safe to say. 2.5 years is a long time... still, looking back at all my past relationships I am now of a firm belief that 'what ifs' are rather pointless, and that if it didn't work out it just wasn't meant to be, and likely would have just meant dodging a bullet.

With real estate I guess you can say; what if you two had 6 more years.... etc etc. But it could have been worse IMO.

For me, despite being a hardass with all my past relationships, with my current girlfriend she's just the type of person who clicks with me so much to the point that I just knew I would regret it forever if I didn't risk the vulnerability. And it has to be mutual, both have to take the plunge, not just one and expect the other to follow. Sometimes it just takes the right person, and I don't think unfortunately, that the two of you were of that level, you know.

My girlfriend would have left me quite quickly if I didn't take the risk. She has heard all the advice people tell the world these days; guard your heart, don't love too hard, be careful, etc etc. She chose to risk it, and if I didn't too, she would have left. I also admire her standards for transparency, honesty, affection, she simply knows what she wants from a relatioship. Perhaps you should adopt a similar standard.

I didn't believe in soulmates before and perhaps you don't either, but I dunno, at the very least one should hold higher standards of connection you know what I mean.


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## FeministInPink

Oh, I didn't mean I was looking for more responses to ME. Just that nobody has posted anything about anything in a week.
@RandomDude I think you're right, on all counts. If he wasn't willing to make the leap, I can't make him do it, and there's no sense in wasting more time hoping that he will or trying to convince him.

I've actually seen him a few times over the past two weeks, most recently yesterday. And I'll see him today and tomorrow--he is assisting me with a minor medical thing on my back. Long story not worth explaining. Anyway, I think the attraction and desire is fading, and that I'm feeling ready to move on from this.

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, I didn't mean I was looking for more responses to ME. Just that nobody has posted anything about anything in a week.
> @RandomDude I think you're right, on all counts. If he wasn't willing to make the leap, I can't make him do it, and there's no sense in wasting more time hoping that he will or trying to convince him.
> 
> I've actually seen him a few times over the past two weeks, most recently yesterday. And I'll see him today and tomorrow--he is assisting me with a minor medical thing on my back. Long story not worth explaining. Anyway, I think the attraction and desire is fading, and that I'm feeling ready to move on from this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I like the sound of that fip. You sound MUCH better! (Ahem! ...besides the fact that a bunch of us here knew he wasn’t the “one” for you 

I wish I had something awesome to report in the matter of romance but I don’t. Well...actually....

After all the rain with the hurricane and stuff, I was working in my yard today. I realized that I’m just so damned in love with my house and my dogs right now that I don’t miss the romantic stuff at this point. Would I like a little romance in my life? You betcha! However, I’ve reached the point that it just doesn’t matter anymore and I think that’s a good thing, right? Doesn’t it mean I’m ready to treat it properly if it does come along? And so what if it doesn’t?

lol...I think I’ve been TAMERIZED. hahaaa




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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> @RandomDude I think you're right, on all counts. If he wasn't willing to make the leap, I can't make him do it, and there's no sense in wasting more time hoping that he will or trying to convince him.
> 
> I've actually seen him a few times over the past two weeks, most recently yesterday. And I'll see him today and tomorrow--he is assisting me with a minor medical thing on my back. Long story not worth explaining. Anyway, I think the attraction and desire is fading, and that I'm feeling ready to move on from this.


Whao now... so much contact after a recent breakup? Well I dunno, but I hope you know what you are doing 



> Oh, I didn't mean I was looking for more responses to ME. Just that nobody has posted anything about anything in a week.


Heh well, nothing new on my front myself. Still together, still strong, more me stressing over our financial future. My girlfriend is so spoilable, we keep fighting over who pays (we both want to pay for everything), we developed our little 'shotgun paying' game, and if we both end up saying shotgun at the same time we play scissors paper rock or flip a coin in front of rather annoyed cashiers. We plan to make a joint account next year to solve this little issue as well as invest in our future. 

Compared to my income in the past I am very humble now financially and my girlfriend wants me to continue my studies rather than going back to something I hate just because of $$$, and says I shouldn't count her own contribution out of our financial future and wants to work instead of me paying for everything. 

But, I don't believe her, not yet. She can't be this perfect, so I'm putting deadlines and milestones for my success, and seeking plan Bs and Cs.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Whao now... so much contact after a recent breakup? Well I dunno, but I hope you know what you are doing


It's not like THAT. I went out with him and several of his friends on his birthday, and barely got to talk to him the entire night. And I needed his help with an medical issue. I have an abscess on my back, and I went to the doctor for an IND on Thursday night (they cut it open to drain the fluid) because I thought it was getting infected, and the incision needed to irrigated for the three following days. I can't do it myself because it's on my back--I can reach it to change the dressing, but I can't reach it well enough to do the irrigation. I would have asked my roommates to help me, but the one is out of town, and the other is hella sick and I don't want his germs anywhere near me. Real Estate is the only other person who is close enough and with enough time flexibility, and with whom I feel comfortable enough, to help me out with this particular issue. The last irrigation is tonight, and I doubt I will be seeing him any time soon after this. I go over, he does the thing, we chit chat for a few minutes, and then I leave.

So yes, I've seen him, but NOTHING is happening. If anything, it's shown me that there isn't much there to sustain a friendship moving forward, because friendships require a certain amount of emotional intimacy, and his defensive walls are up again, and with that in place, it feels like we don't know how to talk to each other anymore. We never really had many shared interests in common... while we were dating, we participated in each other's interests, because we were together. And we could talk for hours about damn near everything, but now the conversation is very top level and superficial.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Heh well, nothing new on my front myself. Still together, still strong, more me stressing over our financial future. My girlfriend is so spoilable, we keep fighting over who pays (we both want to pay for everything), we developed our little 'shotgun paying' game, and if we both end up saying shotgun at the same time we play scissors paper rock or flip a coin in front of rather annoyed cashiers. We plan to make a joint account next year to solve this little issue as well as invest in our future.
> 
> Compared to my income in the past I am very humble now financially and my girlfriend wants me to continue my studies rather than going back to something I hate just because of $$$, and says I shouldn't count her own contribution out of our financial future and wants to work instead of me paying for everything.
> 
> But, I don't believe her, not yet. She can't be this perfect, so I'm putting deadlines and milestones for my success, and seeking plan Bs and Cs.


Trust, but verify. Before going all in, you may want to wait and see if her actions follow up with what she says. But it sounds legit, since she is already trying to pay her fair share of stuff.

And I think it's awesome that she is supporting/encouraging you to continue your studies. Don't discount that.



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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> It's not like THAT. I went out with him and several of his friends on his birthday, and barely got to talk to him the entire night. And I needed his help with an medical issue. I have an abscess on my back, and I went to the doctor for an IND on Thursday night (they cut it open to drain the fluid) because I thought it was getting infected, and the incision needed to irrigated for the three following days. I can't do it myself because it's on my back--I can reach it to change the dressing, but I can't reach it well enough to do the irrigation. I would have asked my roommates to help me, but the one is out of town, and the other is hella sick and I don't want his germs anywhere near me. Real Estate is the only other person who is close enough and with enough time flexibility, and with whom I feel comfortable enough, to help me out with this particular issue. The last irrigation is tonight, and I doubt I will be seeing him any time soon after this. I go over, he does the thing, we chit chat for a few minutes, and then I leave.
> 
> So yes, I've seen him, but NOTHING is happening. If anything, it's shown me that there isn't much there to sustain a friendship moving forward, because friendships require a certain amount of emotional intimacy, and his defensive walls are up again, and with that in place, it feels like we don't know how to talk to each other anymore. We never really had many shared interests in common... while we were dating, we participated in each other's interests, because we were together. And we could talk for hours about damn near everything, but now the conversation is very top level and superficial.


Fair enough I guess, though for me like... independence is very complete.



FeministInPink said:


> Trust, but verify. Before going all in, you may want to wait and see if her actions follow up with what she says. But it sounds legit, since she is already trying to pay her fair share of stuff.
> 
> And I think it's awesome that she is supporting/encouraging you to continue your studies. Don't discount that.


Heh true, her actions always follow up with her words, and her words only reinforce her actions. She's 100%, but that's so far. It's not been a year yet so I'm watchful as the only constant is change. Still, we both know trust has to be earnt and she's also paranoid with other things, like what if I get bored of her or no longer love her or get sick of her. She was played by past dates already, even though she had only one serious relationship, the other two dates she was played. Three times in a row, which she caught them all three times as she's very sharp. When I tried to reassure her to trust her instincts that have been proven to be sharp, she says it's not enough that she still found out, she's still paranoid. Why anyone would risk playing a unicorn like her I do not really understand but their loss.

I'm also on a tightrope as well as her, although in some ways we are opposites we are very much alike - still, for us the high expectations we have of each other we seem to consider quite easy, like duh don't lie, be honest, be transparent, etc. So we understand. Still, if she remains consistent in a few years I admit I am already considering the possibility of something more permanent, hence already no problem with an early joint account to stop us 'fighting' over paying a bill as well as start saving for our future. We're already discussing finances and our potential future living arrangements, she's already incredibly smart and aware of financial management, which again speaks of her maturity. When it comes to my studies I was actually prepared to abandon them to focus on my business again but she talked me out of it over the course of two weeks about how that's the last thing she wants for me to do something I no longer want to do just because of $$$. We had a few arguments and in the end I relented because I knew she was right but I just didn't believe she truly wanted me to study and take risks when I can go back to my nice comfy income again and provide for us both.

So yeah she's a real potential alright, but like myself, she has to stand the test of time. Think I'll give it around 5 or so years. She's too perfect so I'm waiting for a slip. And if she doesn't slip then well, I'm putting a ring on it.


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## Bananapeel

FeministInPink said:


> I killed the Singles thread
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I'll continue with the resurrection process then.

I had a great weekend with my GF since neither of us had our kids this weekend (we still haven't done the kid introduction so we only get to date about very other week). We went to a free cooking class together on Friday night and had a great time. Then Saturday night we cooked a romantic dinner together and enjoyed a few cocktails. Then Sunday morning went on a run and accidently went too far because we weren't paying attention and ran a half marathon distance in record time for both of us. 

I still had time this weekend to hang out with a friend I hadn't seen in a few months, get a bunch of chores done, and watch my kids play their midget football games. 

I've got the next few date ideas to surprise her with cooking up right now. I've always loved dating and am having a lot of fun keeping activities varied and exciting. The next few things are zombie paintball hunting followed by wine tasting (I've done this a couple times before and it's always a blast), an overnight backpacking trip at a local area, and mini-golf if the weather holds out long enough. For the spring I've already found a free weekly learn to sail class that I'm going to do with her, if we're still together then.


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## ReformedHubby

I will update as well. I am no longer dating the same woman. I must say I care really deeply for her...but...I realized she can't handle her wine at times. She is fine on two or three glasses, which honestly I am fine with too. However if she has four glasses all bets are off, sometimes she is fun in a good way, but at other times she can be dark, and mean spirited. I gave her a pass the first time it happened. Figuring it was an aberration. The second time it happened even though she was tearfully apologetic I said if it happens again I would break up with her. So when it happened again I had no choice but to do that, I wasn't a jerk about it. I didn't tell her until the next morning when she had sobered up. I calmly said I had told her it was something I wouldn't tolerate and ended it. She has said she is sorry and says if she has to she will quit drinking if it means getting me back, but I honestly need to think about. She doesn't actually drink all that often, but in all honesty I do like to drink, and not knowing who you're going to get when your partner throws back a couple of drinks isn't fun. I am not saying its over, I am just evaluating if its something I want to deal with or not. I say this because I doubt quitting altogether is going to stick, because its not something that happens every time, but when it does it ruins the evening.


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## FeministInPink

@Bananapeel Those sound like great ideas!
@ReformedHubby If it's a deal breaker, it's a deal breaker. If she wants to change her habits, she should change them for herself, not for you. If she changes for you... that's a slippery slope.

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## 3Xnocharm

ReformedHubby said:


> I am not saying its over, I am just evaluating if its something I want to deal with or not. I say this because I doubt quitting altogether is going to stick, because its not something that happens every time, but when it does it ruins the evening.


Honestly, this does NOT sound worth dealing with. You shouldn't have to worry about how your night will end because she has wine with dinner, or whatever. It doesn't sound like she has much self control, and is this something you really want to be required to keep an eye on, when you enjoy casual drinks? You should be able to enjoy yourself. I think you should move on.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> She doesn't actually drink all that often, but in all honesty I do like to drink, and not knowing who you're going to get when your partner throws back a couple of drinks isn't fun. I am not saying its over, I am just evaluating if its something I want to deal with or not. I say this because I doubt quitting altogether is going to stick, because its not something that happens every time, but when it does it ruins the evening.


Here's my update, plus a response to RH...I guess I'm still in the stage where I know I am not ready for a full commitment. So I can handle things within a dating relationship that I would not want in a more committed relationship. Because I know this isn't going down into forever land, it is ok to accept some flaws that I would not accept if it was going down into forever land. Not to excess, I mean, but something like the occasional "wow, what the heck was up with last night?" drunken evening might be ok.

I'm back to dating my on again off again post divorce rebound boyfriend. It sounds hysterical and slightly mean to describe him that way, but the truth is...I really, really dig him. That's why I keep coming back. But he has several characteristics that I can not accept in a more committed relationship...meaning that there is no forever land with him and me. It just isn't in the cards.

But those things are only a tiny part of our interactions, and 99% of our interactions are very, very good. So since I am not racing to some finish line of finding a more committed relationship and we dig each other so much, why not just chill and focus on the 99% good (while knowing we can still escape for the evening if the 1% bad comes out). When I'm dating him, I don't date (or have sex with) anyone else. We are exclusive that way - and I enjoy that. It is nice to only date him. I do not want to go merry go round dating again at this time (though I may again in the future, it is fun for me! Just that currently dating only him is more fun).

@ReformedHubby can you just date this woman without being so committed that you have to think of a future with her? Can you accept her in your life "for now" and just see how it goes and focus on the good stuff? Does her thing with occasional bad drunk nights mean she can't be a good "for now" relationship?

.....................................

I miss my sweet younger guy...but we have gone no contact, and that's for the best in our case, so we don't just miss each other more by being in contact.

My ex-h and I continue to hang out as friends and family type support.

Personally - - I'm gaining a whole new life in the world of cars and car shows. Something I'd always thought would cool to do but nothing I had any knowledge of or way to include myself. Long story short, now I'm in it and wading through as a newbie at it. I'm learning the culture, the people, learning about cars (mechanical stuff and other knowledge). It is always a huge sausage fest at every car show or cruise in or meet up, so sometimes there are some hotties among them for me to check out (but typically not). Mostly married, middle aged guys. They are usually sweet guys though and it is always a lot of fun. I'm kind of an anomaly there, a car chick (or on my way to earning that title). It has really been a lot of fun, way more than I expected. Fall (and rain) are pretty much here, so there won't be a lot more shows until spring but...I'll be there.


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## Bananapeel

Thanks, FIP. Some friends of mine have joked that I should write a book about dating because I'm the king of planning cheap dates that are a lot of fun. It seems like there is always an idea I'm working on getting set up. I actually just signed up for a swimming class too because my GF wants me to go to Europe with her this summer and stay at her families vacation home on the sea. I can swim but I get tired out quickly because I'm just not very comfortable in the water. I think I'd be fine in the salt water but the fresh water lakes around the cabin would be a different story.


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## FeministInPink

I got half my Christmas shopping done today! I am working at Barnes & Noble, and they are having a big clearance sale right now... clearing out old inventory before the new stuff for Christmas comes in, mostly toys, games, and gift items. A few weeks ago, stuff was 30% off... last week it was 50% off... and yesterday, it switched to 75% off, which is what I was waiting for! I got some really nice gifts for my nieces and nephew and my sister, and $250 worth of gifts and only spent $60. I'm psyched because I'm on a tight budget this year, and getting this done now means less financial stress come December.

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## TooNice

Oh goodness, you guys. I have missed a great deal on here, haven't I? 

In the past few months, I have had a good deal of change, hence MY lack of posting! New apartment, my son moved back home, I had abdominal surgery, and got a new job!

On the job front, my last workplace was toxic, which I know several of you can relate to. It was not at all team-based, and a few women were starting to make it feel like it was worse than a high school clique scenario. Just not a good situation. I wasn't actively looking, but a dream job kind of blew in my direction. I just finished my first week, and I feel like I am in a dream. The people are kind to each other, know about each other's lives and families, and support and respect one another in their jobs. I've heard about places like this, but wow. My boss even told me today that they are really glad I am there. I feel like I won the lottery.

So, I have also been dating. And given my story above, I had a staggering moment tonight. I feel more confident and bold in my profession than I have ever felt in my life. It's so empowering and amazing. And I have been seeing a man who thinks my passion for my work is beyond sexy. He's kind, and treats me so well. I went to his place for the first time tonight, and he made me dinner. We had an amazing time together, but when we talked about me spending the night, I couldn't do it. Once again, I was paralyzed at the thought of being in a situation that could be a real, true relationship. It hit me HARD how damaged I still am from my marriage. I may be strong professionally, and I may have a confidence I never had while married, but when faced with a true and genuine guy, I suddenly feel like a hot mess who isn't worthy of a man who is that kind. 

Thankfully, we have been very open about several issues for both of us, and I warned him a couple of weeks ago that I tend to flee at the sign of real potential. We talked things through, and he told me he's in no rush and that I'm worth waiting for. He doesn't want to do anything to scare me off, so he'll take things as slowly as I need. He walked me to my car, we kissed, we laughed... and then I cried all the way home.

My son wanted to know what happened... he had thought I would be staying there tonight. So then I started crying again. But my wonderful "kid" thought what I was saying actually made sense. He wished he had words of advice, or knew how to make me feel better... but just acknowledging that I'm not a crazy hot mess was nice. Because I sure feel like a crazy hot mess. 

<smh>

Anyway, I am wiped out right now, but hope to catch up soon on the 15 pages of posts I have missed. <3


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice Congrats on the new job! That's a great feeling... I felt that way when I started at Barnes & Noble, and working there has really improved my professional confidence after leaving my toxic work environment and abusive boss.

It's ok to take it slow with this new guy, and keep it casual until you're ready for something real. It's good that you recognize that you're not ready. Stay true to yourself, and if he is everything he seems to be, he will be ok with that and supportive. If he has a problem with that, then he's not the guy for you, anyway.

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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> [MENTION=104322]
> It's ok to take it slow with this new guy, and keep it casual until you're ready for something real. It's good that you recognize that you're not ready. Stay true to yourself, and if he is everything he seems to be, he will be ok with that and supportive. If he has a problem with that, then he's not the guy for you, anyway.


Thanks, FiP. We had dinner again tonight, and talked a lot about it. And about some of his own stuff, too. I haven't been so honest with anyone since I started dating again... most men express little interest in talking through your issues even 8 dates in. He says he wants to start our relationship with honesty and communication, and he wants to be there with me as I figure this out. This is still strange for me, but it was a great talk tonight. Everything I said makes sense to him, and he doesn't think I'm broken or crazy... I was just treated badly. 

We had already agreed that we are not seeing other people, but we agreed tonight that we are taking things slow. We'll just take the time to get to know each other and be comfortable together... and see what happens without pressure.


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## hope4family

Trying to date casually at the moment. Keeping my attention with no more then 3. Anymore I feel is a disservice and not really genuine. 

First one is young 23, kinda more friends at the moment. Still in school / part time job. Feeling it out. 

Second one is 31. Established - has her life in order and roots in town. 


Both on the surface share a lot of similar needs and wants out of life to me. I am working on talking into a 3rd to actively date. She however isn't as responsive, so it may be she falls by the wayside.


----------



## Bananapeel

@hope4family - You're not being efficient with your time and act like you might be orbiting around in the friend zone and hoping the women will take the initiative. Be decisive, it works much better. For #1, just ask her out directly. For #2, just ask her out directly. For #3, ask her out directly. Then you really will know what your options are and who you are going to divert your time towards. Nothing is worse than waiting for a woman to make up her mind while you are unsure of where you stand. If any don't want to date you then cut contact with them completely and focus on the others. If they want to date but aren't enthusiastic about it and making it easy for you then you cut contact with them completely and focus on the others. If they want to date and are enthusiastic about it then enjoy yourself. 

When you ask them out be prepared with a plan rather than just ask if they want to go somewhere and use the word "date" when you ask them. 

For example: I'd like to take you out on a date. Are you free to go to Chuckee Cheeses and play skee-ball next Friday at 7 PM? 

Do not say: Want to get a coffee sometime?


----------



## 2&out

FW - what kind of cars are you learning about ? Is there a particular type of car that you especially like and interested in ? I think I read before you have a "special" one of your own. What is it ? Just being nosey.


----------



## 2&out

Chuckee Cheeses ?? LOL.


----------



## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> @hope4family - You're not being efficient with your time and act like you might be orbiting around in the friend zone and hoping the women will take the initiative. Be decisive, it works much better. For #1, just ask her out directly. For #2, just ask her out directly. For #3, ask her out directly. Then you really will know what your options are and who you are going to divert your time towards. Nothing is worse than waiting for a woman to make up her mind while you are unsure of where you stand. If any don't want to date you then cut contact with them completely and focus on the others. If they want to date but aren't enthusiastic about it and making it easy for you then you cut contact with them completely and focus on the others. If they want to date and are enthusiastic about it then enjoy yourself.
> 
> When you ask them out be prepared with a plan rather than just ask if they want to go somewhere and use the word "date" when you ask them.
> 
> For example: I'd like to take you out on a date. Are you free to go to Chuckee Cheeses and play skee-ball next Friday at 7 PM?
> 
> Do not say: Want to get a coffee sometime?


Whoops, I already am dating them both.....at the same time. Both are pretty responsive over text. I am quickly responsive, because that's my end of the deal. 

Due to my single Dad situation. I am trying to go out once a week with the two. I might add a 3rd in, but that may be too much. 

There is a part of me that just wants to push and keep pushing in line with you. Also navigating the "don't be too attached" feeling. It's a balancing act for me. 

Thanks for the cheerleading / coaching. I need this in my life.


----------



## john117

2&out said:


> Chuckee Cheeses ?? LOL.


Best place to hit on single moms actually.


----------



## 2&out

Maybe for a quick bang of an easy hoe but that's about it. Otherwise no way. IMO that could be about the worst place. Meet the kid/s same time as the Mom ? What kind of creep goes to a little kids entertainment area to pick up women ? Child molesters ? Just yuck. I'd seriously question the character of any women wanting and open to getting picked up at Chuckee Cheeses unless it was thru a group of established friends.


----------



## RandomDude

Bloody orbiters seriously, I thought we made it loud and clear with one (by making out R18+ style right in front of him) and he keeps trying very subtly - a colleague of hers, txting her what he should do because "his friend" loves a girl but she got into a relationship before he even asked her out. Girlfriend knew what he was on about and told him to tell "his friend" to stay the hell away and that "the girl" loves her boyfriend not "his friend". And he replies, "he can't". She's distanced herself since then. But now just before this issue is resolved there's another orbiter wannabe. 

It never seems to end. I swear if it wasn't for the fact that she matches me in every way I wouldn't want to deal with this. Just infuriates me especially how they try to do it so subtly.


----------



## Bananapeel

2&out said:


> Maybe for a quick bang of an easy hoe but that's about it. Otherwise no way. IMO that could be about the worst place. Meet the kid/s same time as the Mom ? What kind of creep goes to a little kids entertainment area to pick up women ? Child molesters ? Just yuck. I'd seriously question the character of any women wanting and open to getting picked up at Chuckee Cheeses unless it was thru a group of established friends.


You do know that Chuckee Cheese was a joke and the others here are just playing along??


----------



## 2&out

I thought so until John's response. Sorry -- just really creeps me out.

Random - why are you so insecure ? Lack of trust ?


----------



## Bananapeel

Women don't usually respect orbiters very much especially being the way Random is describing them.


----------



## RandomDude

My girlfriend has earned my trust thus far, it's the lack of damn respect these orbiters seem to have, even after we have done everything to make it obvious (nicely) to them to back off. The way the current orbiter is doing it she can't even confront him directly to back off, and even going to HR would make things very awkward. So far we've both been looking for a solution that doesn't involve that.

She's already going for interviews for new jobs as she's hoping for better pay, recent one she mentioned she felt uncomfortable being sized up by every guy there on her way to the interview room and doesn't like the environment. Her getting hit on I've got used to, though hell some of the stories worry me about her safety, there was a guy who stalked her from work and chased her calling out her name and she freaked out and ran, another who sat in front of her on a bus and then looked back at her to just stare and when she changed her seat he came right up to her and asked her why she changed seats. There was another guy there who saw she was uncomfortable and stepped in thankfully but damn would I love to crack his spine.

At least those are one offs every once in a while and they've never approached her while with me but how do you deal with a subtle one who's a colleague and team member of hers who won't back off even knowing full well she's with me? Girlfriend and I are already planning to do this to him until he gets it:










Which sure, would probably be hilarious and we are already laughing about and entertaining the idea but quite frankly I'd rather not involve him at all in our lives nor hear about him from her.


----------



## RandomDude

Sometimes I wonder if this transparency thing really works... like sure I appreciate how transparent she is - she tells me EVERYTHING and never shuts up - which I love but some things probably best not knowing!

Meh

/end vent


----------



## 2&out

I agree. I'm a bit confused on why it bothers RD so much - he's posted about it several times. It sounds like she is fully capable of dealing with it with little problem. He doesn't seem to be though. To me it's a normal life thing. When you've got a prize catch of course others want it and will make attempts to aquire it. Even a ring on their finger makes little difference. I think his reaction about it may be a noteworthy red flag to her and I don't think his helicopter behavior is going to help the relationship. Smells of a maybe control and/or insecurity/trust problem.

Maybe it's me. Other guys have always been interested in my dates/girlfriends/wives. To me it's a normal thing and nothing to be concerned about unless she is encouraging the extra attention. And then it's not a "the other guys problem" - it's a her and a maybe not fully invested in her current partner problem.


----------



## john117

I raised two kids largely alone as wife was busy with her career. I've gone to enough piano lessons / Kumon / gymnastics / fencing / PTO / orthodontics type venues to have seen quite a bit . 

Single mom magnet material: early 1990s Saab 900 SPG, car seats in back, stroller in hatchback.


----------



## 2&out

I assume she carries mace or pepper spray ? Is she afraid to use it ? I buy 3 or 4 a year the last couple years for my 19 yr old daughter as she used one she had on some dhead. Daddy told his girl try to play nice twice and blast them the third time - unless the first time is an assault. Your girl shouldn't run away - she should be strong and stand her ground clearly ready to take action. Word will got around she's no one to mess with. Especially at work.


----------



## 2&out

LOL John ! Must be some killer kid car seats as I'm sure it's not the car !  Where do you get something like that serviced considering they went under/out of business many years ago ? Kind of reminds me of Columbo's Volvo.


----------



## john117

2&out said:


> LOL John ! Must be some killer kid car seats as I'm sure it's not the car !  Where do you get something like that serviced considering they went under/out of business many years ago ? Kind of reminds me of Columbo's Volvo.


Traded it in unfortunately in 2012 for a Mini Cooper S.... Once the legal dust settles post January I'm upgrading to a 2019 Mini Cooper JCW...


----------



## 2&out

Thread drift... Back in June I ran into a car for sale I've wanted a long time but frankly there was never any way I could justify it. I'm not the nose in the air stuffy type and this is a car that reeks of it. For what it is, it was semi reasonable and cared for/gently used. It's widely considered one of the best years for it for performance and reliability. I decided I'm getting older and to go for it. I sold 3 I had to help me not feel so guilty. I needed to downsize anyway. I don't think a kid car seat will fit in it and I'll never know. The giddy little kid sits in the drivers seat. I now know why many consider them the ultimate street car. I got a 2008 911 Turbo. The thing is beautiful and absolutely rocks, and is amazingly comfortable. I'm semi old and tainted... seems hard for me to believe a "committed" woman relationship could make me feel as happy and good about myself as this damn car does. It doesn't b*tch - is just sings. lol.


----------



## ReformedHubby

RandomDude said:


> Sometimes I wonder if this transparency thing really works... like sure I appreciate how transparent she is - she tells me EVERYTHING and never shuts up - which I love but some things probably best not knowing!
> 
> Meh
> 
> /end vent


I honestly wouldn't worry about it RD, whenever I had a head turner as a girlfriend I actually found the orbtiters entertaining, and truth be told some I honestly just felt sorry for. Keep in mind though my definition of orbiter is different than creepers. I have zero tolerance for creepers who try to touch a woman or send creepy messages unsolicited. Creepers are aggressive, and scary at times. IMO the orbiters I encountered are lonely guys that sort of hang around hoping to get noticed. They may build up enough nerve to ask for a date, but when friend zoned they still stay close hoping things will change. I see them as harmless. My ex girlfriend saw her orbiters as friends. I would always chuckle at that. My question was always, "If you weighed 400 lbs would he still be your friend?". She'd laugh...because she knew I had a point. For an orbiter that 1 in 1000 chance is worth it I guess.


----------



## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> FW - what kind of cars are you learning about ? Is there a particular type of car that you especially like and interested in ? I think I read before you have a "special" one of your own. What is it ? Just being nosey. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


https://www.google.com/amp/motonetw...d-can-win-spectacular-plymouth-superbird/amp/


----------



## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Thread drift... Back in June I ran into a car for sale I've wanted a long time but frankly there was never any way I could justify it. I'm not the nose in the air stuffy type and this is a car that reeks of it. For what it is, it was semi reasonable and cared for/gently used. It's widely considered one of the best years for it for performance and reliability. I decided I'm getting older and to go for it. I sold 3 I had to help me not feel so guilty. I needed to downsize anyway. I don't think a kid car seat will fit in it and I'll never know. The giddy little kid sits in the drivers seat. I now know why many consider them the ultimate street car. I got a 2008 911 Turbo. The thing is beautiful and absolutely rocks, and is amazingly comfortable. I'm semi old and tainted... seems hard for me to believe a "committed" woman relationship could make me feel as happy and good about myself as this damn car does. It doesn't b*tch - is just sings. lol.


I find that my car is the best boyfriend I’ve ever had. No real guy can compare to the raw rush of driving and owning this car. Also as you said, no *****ing. Mine just growls like a beast which makes my panties wet every time I turn over the engine. Rawr!


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> My girlfriend has earned my trust thus far, it's the lack of damn respect these orbiters seem to have, even after we have done everything to make it obvious (nicely) to them to back off. The way the current orbiter is doing it she can't even confront him directly to back off, and even going to HR would make things very awkward. So far we've both been looking for a solution that doesn't involve that.
> 
> She's already going for interviews for new jobs as she's hoping for better pay, recent one she mentioned she felt uncomfortable being sized up by every guy there on her way to the interview room and doesn't like the environment. Her getting hit on I've got used to, though hell some of the stories worry me about her safety, there was a guy who stalked her from work and chased her calling out her name and she freaked out and ran, another who sat in front of her on a bus and then looked back at her to just stare and when she changed her seat he came right up to her and asked her why she changed seats. There was another guy there who saw she was uncomfortable and stepped in thankfully but damn would I love to crack his spine.
> 
> At least those are one offs every once in a while and they've never approached her while with me but how do you deal with a subtle one who's a colleague and team member of hers who won't back off even knowing full well she's with me? Girlfriend and I are already planning to do this to him until he gets it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which sure, would probably be hilarious and we are already laughing about and entertaining the idea but quite frankly I'd rather not involve him at all in our lives nor hear about him from her.


But this kind of stuff happens to women all the time. Not just young model looking babes like your girlfriend, but any woman you ask has stories similar to what you described above.

It’s confusing to me that this isn’t obvious to men without women detailing it out for them. Don’t you guys see these things happen? Even if it isn’t happening to me, I see it happening to other people all the time, out in the world. What it looks like is different, sometimes very subtle like a creepy guy angling himself to be able to look up a woman’s skirt on a bus. If I see something like that I’ll try to make eye contact with the guy to let him know I see what he’s doing. This may or may not make any difference and it certainly won’t stop the creep in the future. Creeps are everywhere and bold guys who are perhaps harmless but we don’t know the difference, are also everywhere. They say and do things to get in your space with a sexual vibe that isn’t comfortable. Every day there is the potential for something like this to happen.

You don’t already see it?

Your daughter probably already sees it. Since most men have daughters or sisters or mothers or wives or girlfriends, I don’t know why they also sometimes poo poo when women talk about the potential problems we face in this way. Also you’ve all known men who speak about women like they are objects haven’t you? Those are probably the same guys who do this crap. You know they are out there. Why is it surprising to hear how often these things happen to your girlfriend?


----------



## 269370

I was never into cars. Couldn’t care less about them and never understood people who can’t **** up about cars. Until I bought my wife a Tesla Model S.
Coolest thing ever. Acceleration gives you whiplash and you can get to your destination pretty much without any driving on autopilot.
The reason I bought it was because i thought it was cool you could drive it with your cellphone  would never drive any other car. Everything else feels like something very clumsy from last century.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

That particular Porsche is the kind of car that sings single-hood... 

If you have time to kill () read up on Dr Ing Ferdinand Porsche. And get a Porsche coffee table book or two.


----------



## ReformedHubby

inmyprime said:


> I was never into cars. Couldn’t care less about them and never understood people who can’t **** up about cars. Until I bought my wife a Tesla Model S.
> Coolest thing ever. Acceleration gives you whiplash and you can get to your destination pretty much without any driving on autopilot.
> The reason I bought it was because i thought it was cool you could drive it with your cellphone  would never drive any other car. Everything else feels like something very clumsy from last century.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Teslas are neat but I just can't do it. I need to hear my car, I need to feel them. Both of mine you can hear coming from behind, and my neighbors tell me that if I get up early they are loud enough to wake the dead. I wouldn't have it any other way. I didn't get special exhausts, its just how a V12 and biturbo V8 are supposed to sound.


----------



## RandomDude

2&out said:


> I agree. I'm a bit confused on why it bothers RD so much - he's posted about it several times. It sounds like she is fully capable of dealing with it with little problem. He doesn't seem to be though. To me it's a normal life thing. When you've got a prize catch of course others want it and will make attempts to aquire it. Even a ring on their finger makes little difference. I think his reaction about it may be a noteworthy red flag to her and I don't think his helicopter behavior is going to help the relationship. Smells of a maybe control and/or insecurity/trust problem.
> 
> Maybe it's me. Other guys have always been interested in my dates/girlfriends/wives. To me it's a normal thing and nothing to be concerned about unless she is encouraging the extra attention. And then it's not a "the other guys problem" - it's a her and a maybe not fully invested in her current partner problem.


Ha! For her she told me it'd be a red flag if I wasn't protective of her. This "insecurity" is so looked down upon in our culture to the point people fear showing it and many wonder if their partners even care.
And they would be right in my opinion, as I tried to pimp out my ex-wife because I didn't care, and the ex-girlfriend before her I had an open relationship. Didn't love either.



ReformedHubby said:


> I honestly wouldn't worry about it RD, whenever I had a head turner as a girlfriend I actually found the orbtiters entertaining, and truth be told some I honestly just felt sorry for. Keep in mind though my definition of orbiter is different than creepers. I have zero tolerance for creepers who try to touch a woman or send creepy messages unsolicited. Creepers are aggressive, and scary at times. IMO the orbiters I encountered are lonely guys that sort of hang around hoping to get noticed. They may build up enough nerve to ask for a date, but when friend zoned they still stay close hoping things will change. I see them as harmless. My ex girlfriend saw her orbiters as friends. I would always chuckle at that. My question was always, "If you weighed 400 lbs would he still be your friend?". She'd laugh...because she knew I had a point. For an orbiter that 1 in 1000 chance is worth it I guess.


For me it's like they are disrespecting me when they hit on my girlfriend even though they know she's with me. If he did it in front of me I would have stood up and got in his face. My girlfriend has my trust and it's not that she's going to go with them, I just have a temper I guess.



Faithful Wife said:


> But this kind of stuff happens to women all the time. Not just young model looking babes like your girlfriend, but any woman you ask has stories similar to what you described above.
> 
> It’s confusing to me that this isn’t obvious to men without women detailing it out for them. Don’t you guys see these things happen? Even if it isn’t happening to me, I see it happening to other people all the time, out in the world. What it looks like is different, sometimes very subtle like a creepy guy angling himself to be able to look up a woman’s skirt on a bus. If I see something like that I’ll try to make eye contact with the guy to let him know I see what he’s doing. This may or may not make any difference and it certainly won’t stop the creep in the future. Creeps are everywhere and bold guys who are perhaps harmless but we don’t know the difference, are also everywhere. They say and do things to get in your space with a sexual vibe that isn’t comfortable. Every day there is the potential for something like this to happen.
> 
> You don’t already see it?


Yeah that's how she ended up telling me. I took a train during rush hour and there was this guy sitting on the train staring at this girl so obviously, like he was sitting on the seat facing sideways directly opposite her. I mentioned it to my girlfriend like WTF and asked her like "why didn't she just change seats, that's what I would do" - which there was still some available even though it's rush hour. Then my girlfriend was like "changing seats make it worse, I've tried", and then proceeded to tell me her experience which made me go wtf!



> Your daughter probably already sees it. Since most men have daughters or sisters or mothers or wives or girlfriends, I don’t know why they also sometimes poo poo when women talk about the potential problems we face in this way. Also you’ve all known men who speak about women like they are objects haven’t you? Those are probably the same guys who do this crap. You know they are out there. Why is it surprising to hear how often these things happen to your girlfriend?


My daughter is still VERY young and thankfully subhuman pedophiles are less in number than your usual creeps. Sure I know guys can be creeps but the extent of it surprises me sometimes actually. She's still quite innocent actually, or maybe there's stuff she's not telling daddy, which would annoy me actually... Daddy should know everything! -.-

Yes I've know men who speak about women like they are objects but it's all locker room talk, but I've never associated myself with a guy who would be that creepy and actually does sh-t. Well I did once, and cut him off completely. Last thing I heard about him was that he had to marry a gay guy and give up his butthole to stay in the country lol. Meh, just pathetic really.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RD...I thought your daughter was about 12. My mistake. Though all weaker people are vulnerable to creeps so she still may understand what a “creep” is if you asked her. She may have a story. If she doesn’t, she will soon, sadly. Every girl I knew, as soon as we hit puberty, adult male creeps were right there doing this stuff. Leering and invading space and making you feel afraid, just because they enjoyed seeing you squirm.

It’s probably just as common that men face similar men who “want to start something”. I think most men have been challenged by unsavory characters in their lives, sometimes several times. Men want to challenge and fight sometimes for no reason (or very little provocation). Well, it’s the same for us women, only those men don’t want to pick a fight with us. They want to make us feel unsafe and know that we are vulnerable and that they don’t care. They even enjoy it. Just like when some *******s on a bus start picking on some younger or weaker kid.


----------



## RandomDude

Heh and once you wondered why I don't consider some people human at all. Would impale them on a spike and watch them slide down all day if I could get away with it.

Bloody pisses me off really, there should be consequences for it but what can society do? Can't pass a law for it we are already having enough trouble with affirmative consent by itself and assault charges are so bloody malicious in western countries where it forces people to not be want to be a samaritan at all.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Heh and once you wondered why I don't consider some people human at all. Would impale them on a spike and watch them slide down all day if I could get away with it.
> 
> Bloody pisses me off really, there should be consequences for it but what can society do? Can't pass a law for it we are already having enough trouble with affirmative consent by itself and assault charges are so bloody malicious in western countries where it forces people to not be want to be a samaritan at all.


I think the most important thing you can do as a man and a father is just acknowledging that this happens to women everywhere all the time. Be aware of it and don’t disregard it.


----------



## hope4family

Saturday brunch setup with 1. 

Other female and I are discussing when our schedules meetup. I take it that dialogue is good.


----------



## 2&out

Those are very cool FW. One of the prime examples of how American tastes can change. They had a hard time selling those when made - they were deemed too outrageous and many sat unsold for a while. Now they are coveted collector items. Enjoy ! IMHO car meets/shows are not a bad place for a lady to maybe meet a guy of at least some semi quality. They are mostly people who have a hobby they have a passion for and put time into something they care about - not a bad trait.


----------



## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> Heh and once you wondered why I don't consider some people human at all. Would impale them on a spike and watch them slide down all day if I could get away with it.
> .


We should change your name to Vlad the Impailer.


----------



## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Those are very cool FW. One of the prime examples of how American tastes can change. They had a hard time selling those when made - they were deemed too outrageous and many sat unsold for a while. Now they are coveted collector items. Enjoy ! IMHO car meets/shows are not a bad place for a lady to maybe meet a guy of at least some semi quality. They are mostly people who have a hobby they have a passion for and put time into something they care about - not a bad trait.


Car shows have been really fun. Men literally mob my car as soon as I pull in anywhere. I actually get away from the car as fast as I can once I park it, because 20-30 guys will suddenly be surrounding the car and I feel trapped if I'm still around. The car itself is the biggest man magnet I've ever seen! Men turn into zombie like creatures as they stare wide eyed at my amazing muscle car and walk toward it with jaw hanging open.

Generally speaking, the guys are cool at these shows but almost all of them are not my type. Seems that lots of car dudes are also politically on the opposite end of the spectrum that I am on. So it is not quite the crowd I will generally want to date within. Not saying I would never meet a cool guy that way, but the chances are low. 

Though I'm quite the anomaly at these shows anyway, my car is one of a kind and my look is pretty unforgettable (pink hair and all) and the crowd is 95% men and then - - here's me. So I've dubbed myself a Superbird Spokemodel and present myself that way. It is a role I'm enjoying very much. 

Even though it does not lead to dates. 

It is really just for me anyway. My own little bit of fun in a new hobby.


----------



## Bananapeel

I hear a lot about politics being a deal breaker for a lot of people but don't get why. If you can enjoy the other person, have a good time with them, and respect each other then you can just find a million other things to talk about that are far more interesting. I grew up with parents that voted opposite and joked that their votes always cancelled each others out. They also only talked about politics for the night before they voted and then it was off limits. My GF is practically a socialist and I'm a libertarian, so we are polar opposites. @Faithful Wife - why is it such a deal breaker? Don't you have friends from the whole political spectrum that you respect and enjoy spending time with? I understand being that picky if there were a million guys lined up outside your door waiting on you, but I doubt that's really the case for anyone other than a very minute slice of the population. You're free to have any value system you want but this one seems pretty insignificant compared to the major values we ascribe to such as loyalty, honesty, being a genuinely good individual, community service, etc.


----------



## SunCMars

Hope Shimmers said:


> Do I just just let the whole thing go and hope it resolves itself, or ask what he meant? :frown2:


Follow your heart. 

It cannot lie.
It cannot make excuses.
It beats for you, not for anyone else.

The thing is....

When you follow your heart, butterflies join in.
They inject 'feel-good' chemicals.

Butterflies only last a short while. 
Don't waste them.
That hatch never comes back.

And the next hatch is promised to no one.

Since love if fleeting and hard to attain, face it head on and embrace it.
Face it full length.

Head to toe, close.




The Typist I-


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> @Faithful Wife - why is it such a deal breaker? Don't you have friends from the whole political spectrum that you respect and enjoy spending time with? I understand being that picky if there were a million guys lined up outside your door waiting on you, but I doubt that's really the case for anyone other than a very minute slice of the population. You're free to have any value system you want but this one seems pretty insignificant compared to the major values we ascribe to such as loyalty, honesty, being a genuinely good individual, community service, etc.


Why is it such a deal breaker?

Because #metoo. Because as far as dating and relationships, I would rather have a thousand paper cuts than to sit across the table from someone who thinks we should build a wall on our south border. Because if someone thinks that racist or sexist jokes and slurs are "funny" and that people who take offense are "snowflakes", this is a person I'm never, ever going to have sex with. Likewise, a man who thinks that false rape accusations are more of a problem than actual sexual assault, that's just not someone I'm going to be able to speak to at all.

I don't really understand why anyone who is on the opposite end of the spectrum would want to date me either. Since my opinions and values would be seen as such "snowflake" issues to them.

Perhaps some people do not hold their politics so close to their heart as I do. Perhaps some who want a wall on our south border would not be offended if they knew I think their mindset is a sign they may have a mental illness, or extremely low intelligence, or racist, or all of the above.

But even if THEY do not hold their politics so close to their heart, why would they want to be with ME, since I do? It would just be a constant judgment festival. With me judging them to be not worthy of my time. How much fun would it be for them to date me in this case? I'm doing them a favor by not even considering them, that way they will never have to feel how much I can't stand their values and they can go find someone with similar values or someone who doesn't care they have different values.

As for having options....I would literally be celibate before I would date or couple up with someone on the opposite end of the scale from me, if that were my ONLY option, I'd just literally go off on my own somewhere forever.

Thankfully, that is not even remotely close to being the case. I can pick and choose between so many beautiful, intelligent, well adjusted men who are aligned with me value wise and politically. Not sure why anyone would ever encourage me to go for someone I would not have any respect for, even if I didn't have so many options? Seems weird to me.

Again - maybe some just don't hold it so close. I do, and I need to partner/couple with men who I'm compatible with that way.

I've had 2 men recently who literally tried to bully me into dating or considering dating them by using all the same words you just said above. That it "isn't that important" and "those are small things, the big things are what matter". In their opinion, them being racist should not matter to me, because that's just you know, a "small thing" (and these are men who literally admit to being racist, I'm not just name calling).

The very idea that blatant racism is a "small thing" is going to receive a quick and final "NEXT!" from me. 

And what was it about me that was so amazing that these guys wanted to date me so bad? I'm hot. That's it. Nothing about my inner self, my mind, my beliefs, my intelligence, my kindness, my essence. I'm just hot and nothing else should matter, including my deeply held values. 

Screw that!

On the other hand, when I meet a lovely man who thinks I am hot AND who is not a racist, who doesn't think I'm a "snowflake" just because I actually care about human beings who are different than me, and who knows why consent is a thing.......now I'm in my dating pool.

Thankfully, this is most of the men I meet, because I've weeded the others out before a first date.


----------



## SunCMars

Hope Shimmers said:


> It's been six months and you will lose the "giddy" in love feeling that you are feeling now. But hopefully the love will just grow stronger and you two will persevere. You deserve it!


Uh, I misplaced your post about his and your definition on exclusivity.

He wants it, you respect that but are not ready to pull the trigger.

You are new to the neighborhood.

Tell your nice divorcee neighbor to hold a block party, a welcome party for you. 
Offer to pay half.

Tell her to invite all the neighbors, especially the single men, the one's who are interested.

Give all enough lead time to arrange their affairs. 
Uh, not affairs, arrange their schedules!

By doing this, you get to meet the neighbors, meet some single men while not on a date.
This will give you cover for meeting new men.


This will put to bed any doubt on these guys.
It may put you to bed with someone new. 

Maybe.
Maybe not.


Just Sayin'



[THRD]


----------



## Bananapeel

@Faithful Wife - OK, you're just radically tied to your political beliefs and that's fine. I have friends of all political backgrounds that are really great people so I care far more about their character than their political ideology. Plus, I've learned that most people really want the same major things in life, just they have a different pathway/priorities to get there. Really, neither of the major political parties wants there to be violence, starvation, disease, or to live under oppression. They just have a different set of plans to deal with those issues and place them on different priority levels. Also, many of your points aren't mutually exclusive. For example, both sexual assault and false rape claims are very damaging and need to be addressed. Addressing one does not invalidate the other or make it less of a problem. I am in various leadership positions, so realizing that most people are good people that want the same core things makes it far easier to find compromises and to be able to interact with all different personality types and political opinions. That's why I don't really care how the women I date vote or whether they watch MSNBC or Fox news. 

I am also a bit skeptical that you have a gluttony of high quality male suitors. If you do then you are truly the exception to the rule. Every woman I've dated has told me there is a very short supply of high quality men.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> @Faithful Wife - OK, you're just radically tied to your political beliefs and that's fine. I have friends of all political backgrounds that are really great people so I care far more about their character than their political ideology. Plus, I've learned that most people really want the same major things in life, just they have a different pathway/priorities to get there. Really, neither of the major political parties wants there to be violence, starvation, disease, or to live under oppression. They just have a different set of plans to deal with those issues and place them on different priority levels. Also, many of your points aren't mutually exclusive. For example, both sexual assault and false rape claims are very damaging and need to be addressed. Addressing one does not invalidate the other or make it less of a problem. I am in various leadership positions, so realizing that most people are good people that want the same core things makes it far easier to find compromises and to be able to interact with all different personality types and political opinions. That's why I don't really care how the women I date vote or whether they watch MSNBC or Fox news.
> 
> I am also a bit skeptical that you have a gluttony of high quality male suitors. If you do then you are truly the exception to the rule. Every woman I've dated has told me there is a very short supply of high quality men.


Dealing with “people” who have different political views than I do is easy.

Dating someone with opposite political views than I have is not even possible for me. I don’t date men I’m not attracted to and that means physically, spiritually, and mentally attracted. 

As for your being skeptical about my available options, not sure what reason I would have to lie or exaggerate here. Are there plenty of low quality men everywhere? Of course. But in my experience it isn’t difficult to weed out the low quality ones since there are so many high quality ones. When I hear people say they can’t find quality people to date it makes me think there is something wrong with their mindset, their beliefs, their picker, or their attitude. People like this usually figure it out and eventually find quality people to date, if they are high quality themselves.

Or just go ahead and think I’m either lying or the exception to the rule. Matters not to me! Cheers.


----------



## Lila

So I'm going to add my 2 cents to this thread. I agreed to go on a "date" with a friend of a friend. I met him at cousin's friend's party a couple of years ago. Dude had taken latin dance lessons and I love dancing (STBX didn't do much dancing) so I was his defacto dance partner most of the night. He asked for my number after finding out about my divorce, at least that's what my cousin says but I have my doubts. I think he called dude to ask me out. He's worried I'm turning into a hermit. Anyhoo...I'm going dancing two weeks from Thurs. Regardless whether it's a pity date or not, I am sure to have fun 😊


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> We should change your name to Vlad the Impailer.


We already have a Vlad Dracul who is based on the same historical figure.


----------



## Red Sonja

Bananapeel said:


> I hear a lot about politics being a deal breaker for a lot of people but don't get why. If you can enjoy the other person, have a good time with them, and respect each other then you can just find a million other things to talk about that are far more interesting.


I agree completely.





Faithful Wife said:


> Why is it such a deal breaker?
> 
> Because #metoo. Because as far as dating and relationships, I would rather have a thousand paper cuts than to sit across the table from someone who thinks we should build a wall on our south border. Because if someone thinks that racist or sexist jokes and slurs are "funny" and that people who take offense are "snowflakes", this is a person I'm never, ever going to have sex with. Likewise, a man who thinks that false rape accusations are more of a problem than actual sexual assault, that's just not someone I'm going to be able to speak to at all.




The thing about this that I don't quite understand is that, aside from "the wall", these things are not political issues rather they are character issues. Persons of all political persuasions can be racists, disrespectful to women, etc. So using political affiliations or who they voted for in a particular election will not weed out the "undesirables".


----------



## Faithful Wife

Red Sonja said:


> Bananapeel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear a lot about politics being a deal breaker for a lot of people but don't get why. If you can enjoy the other person, have a good time with them, and respect each other then you can just find a million other things to talk about that are far more interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it such a deal breaker?
> 
> Because #metoo. Because as far as dating and relationships, I would rather have a thousand paper cuts than to sit across the table from someone who thinks we should build a wall on our south border. Because if someone thinks that racist or sexist jokes and slurs are "funny" and that people who take offense are "snowflakes", this is a person I'm never, ever going to have sex with. Likewise, a man who thinks that false rape accusations are more of a problem than actual sexual assault, that's just not someone I'm going to be able to speak to at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The thing about this that I don't quite understand is that, aside from "the wall", these things are not political issues rather they are character issues. Persons of all political persuasions can be racists, disrespectful to women, etc. So using political affiliations or who they voted for in a particular election will not weed out the "undesirables".
Click to expand...

There are a lot more things about a Trump voter that make me not willing to date one. If I said all those things, someone else will come along and say those things are also not only applicable to Trumpers and therefore won’t weed out the undesirables. However, the undesirables in other political affiliations will get weeded out as well, based on whatever is undesirable about them.

For anyone who is a Trump supporter, trust me, THEY would not want to date me. I’m not going to be good company or conversation for them at all. Maybe it wouldn’t be a big deal for other liberals and they could just avoid the topic of politics. But it is a big deal to me and I do speak my mind enough that any conservative would be quick to flee once I started taking. It’s just never going to be a match for me, even if they never speak their mind or try to avoid the topic. I will not avoid the topic. 

Plenty of liberal men wouldn’t be a match for me either. 

I don’t know why my preferences this way seem unusual. Who wants to date someone they don’t respect? (Meaning that goes both ways).


----------



## hope4family

@Faithful Wife

As a person, who started off Republican, went independent, but at this second is considering libertarian. I empathize with a lot of what you say. It is unfortunate that so many topics have become polarizing that if you do not pick a side 110% you are instantly tossed one way or another. 

I used to think I could date a feminist for example. This turns sideways as the majority believe I should be a felon for owning guns. At the moment, in the dating world it is like navigating a minefield where because I am not 100% committed to a particular world view, be it "the wall" or "trust women" or "pick a bathroom" and so on and so forth.


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> @Faithful Wife
> 
> As a person, who started off Republican, went independent, but at this second is considering libertarian. I empathize with a lot of what you say. It is unfortunate that so many topics have become polarizing that if you do not pick a side 110% you are instantly tossed one way or another.
> 
> I used to think I could date a feminist for example. This turns sideways as the majority believe I should be a felon for owning guns. At the moment, in the dating world it is like navigating a minefield where because I am not 100% committed to a particular world view, be it "the wall" or "trust women" or "pick a bathroom" and so on and so forth.


Do you see the dating scene as a place where women do the picking and choosing and men just wait to be chosen? Just curious about part of the wording in your post. I see the dating world as a place where men and women both seek their match and one gender does not hold more power than the other in these choices. 

So if a man doesn’t choose me to date because I’m a feminist for instance, I consider that a bullet dodged. I feel he is smart and knows we are not going to be a match so why waste time. Not that the guy himself is the dodged bullett, the wasting time is.

I have plenty of things about myself that lots of men would never want in a partner (besides politics). This doesn’t make me wish those guys would give it a chance. The guys who would not be into me for these reasons should absolutely not pursue me. People should be true to what they know they want and don’t want in a partner.

Exceptions can happen of course, but I’m never going to be looking to date in a pool of Trump supporters and just cross my fingers to find the exception. 

There is no shortage of compatible people to date so why would anyone be open to dating someone they may have a constant deep conflict with? Again, this only applies when 2 people both have strong, opposing views and who will not avoid the topic. If 2 people both can just avoid the topic, then it may never be a problem. But I already know I can’t and won’t keep my mouth shut so there’s no reason for me to try to “overlook” such a huge political difference.

I mentioned already I’ve had right wing men try to convince me (via shaming and bullying tactics) to date them anyway. That just made me have even more disgust for them. They wanted to date me because they wanted to eventually be able to **** me. That’s it. That’s their only reason for wanting to date me. Now let’s say a right wing man was actually interested in ME and my thoughts and beliefs. If he was interested in how and why I believe the way I do, and if he did not dismiss my beliefs, then I may actually also be interested in his beliefs, how and why he has them, and may find in an adult discussion that I find him interesting and his views respectable.

But similar to your dating a feminist who feels you should be jailed for having guns, every conservative person I’ve ever had any kind of date discussion with felt that I must a silly, loud mouthed and mercurial dingbat who doesn’t actually understand anything about the world (that’s the view of feminism these men had). 

So I learned quickly it isn’t a good match and to avoid it. I’ve literally stopped speaking to certain relatives and dumped friends and acquaintances who were so far to the right that I simply cannot relate to them or respect them anymore. I don’t have time to be around people who make me cringe and upset my stomach. I’m done reading or joining certain threads here at TAM for the same reason.


----------



## Bananapeel

There is a huge amount of intolerance for people that don't fit another's political ideology, which is really unfortunate. Like I said before my GF is on the opposite end of the spectrum as I am and it's not a big deal. She's prefer to pay more taxes to support social programs and I'd prefer to pay less taxes and have more money available for charitable donations of things that are important to me. She believes it's societies job to take care of the poor and I believe it's a personal responsibility of those that have more to help those that have less but not one that should codified into our tax system. But we both believe in giving back (and both actively do it) so our core values are similar even though the political methodology is divergent. 

It's also important to realize that sometimes people vote for a candidate and sometimes they vote against a different candidate. So a person that voted for Trump could be of completely different ideology than one that voted against Clinton and picked the "other" candidate which they didn't really like. 

Anyway, I hate this time of year because several of my friends turn into rabid political activists and I can't stand to be around them. I just had to delete some posts on my FB page that a buddy posted attacking another friend of both of ours for belonging to a different political party. Why does anyone, let alone very intelligent and successful professionals, think that is OK? Seriously, just chat over a beer like a mature adult then respect each other's choice to vote the way they want.

@Faithful Wife - it sounds like the right wing guys you've talked with don't understand feminism. I'm 100% on board with first wave but don't support third wave. That goes back to my belief that society shouldn't be trying to equalize by picking winners and losers to offset balances. It should try to be equal by promoting equality. If you're third wave you'd disagree with me on this, and I have several third wave friends that I have had very interesting conversations with about their beliefs, the justification for it, and practical vs ideological ramifications of each of our beliefs. There are valid points on both sides.

@hope4family - my GF is highly antigun but came to a target shooting event I hosted. She'll also eat the wild game I harvest. We disagree on whether it should be law or personal responsibility to keep firearms locked up, but again, we both share the core belief that they need to be properly secured and inaccessible to people that shouldn't access them. So again, the core values are similar although the methodology is divergent.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> There is a huge amount of intolerance for people that don't fit another's political ideology, which is really unfortunate. Like I said before my GF is on the opposite end of the spectrum as I am and it's not a big deal. She's prefer to pay more taxes to support social programs and I'd prefer to pay less taxes and have more money available for charitable donations of things that are important to me. She believes it's societies job to take care of the poor and I believe it's a personal responsibility of those that have more to help those that have less but not one that should codified into our tax system. But we both believe in giving back (and both actively do it) so our core values are similar even though the political methodology is divergent.
> 
> It's also important to realize that sometimes people vote for a candidate and sometimes they vote against a different candidate. So a person that voted for Trump could be of completely different ideology than one that voted against Clinton and picked the "other" candidate which they didn't really like.
> 
> Anyway, I hate this time of year because several of my friends turn into rabid political activists and I can't stand to be around them. I just had to delete some posts on my FB page that a buddy posted attacking another friend of both of ours for belonging to a different political party. Why does anyone, let alone very intelligent and successful professionals, think that is OK? Seriously, just chat over a beer like a mature adult then respect each other's choice to vote the way they want.
> 
> @Faithful Wife - it sounds like the right wing guys you've talked with don't understand feminism. I'm 100% on board with first wave but don't support third wave. That goes back to my belief that society shouldn't be trying to equalize by picking winners and losers to offset balances. It should try to be equal by promoting equality. If you're third wave you'd disagree with me on this, and I have several third wave friends that I have had very interesting conversations with about their beliefs, the justification for it, and practical vs ideological ramifications of each of our beliefs. There are valid points on both sides.


Actually most of the conservative guys I’ve spoken to seem to “understand” feminism the same way you do. 

Ie: not a match for me. If I had to listen to someone talk about how feminism shouldn’t be about picking winners and losers, I would quickly know that this person doesn’t understand my beliefs at all and isn’t open to hearing them since he has already decided what third wave feminism is and why it is wrong.

Similarly, if a conservative heard me say that Trump is a raving lunatic, he or she may assume immediately that there would not be a good discussion with us about anything related to Trump himself since I’ve already made up my mind. 

If a mind is made up that the other side is wrong, there’s no moving past that into a good discussion where everyone is respected and heard.

It doesn’t bug me at all that I would be resoundly rejected by numerous men for numerous reasons. I want to be nexted by any man who can’t respect my beliefs, and I have no problem nexting a man if I don’t respect his beliefs either.

I do not judge these men as unworthy of love or a good woman. I know they will find a good woman who is compatible with them. It’s all good.

For the record, I have literally never had a discussion about my views on feminism or my own slant on that with any date, ever. I’ve never used the word patriarchy or talked about the wage gap or abortion. Not once. It is not something I discuss on dates.Yet I have heard men on dates go off on why third wave feminism is “wrong” and only first wave feminism is “right”. 

Those dates ended early and there was not a second date. It has been my experience that a guy like this is not actually open to what I think and I also am not open to what he thinks at that point.


----------



## wilson

One reason to be agreeable about politics is that politics plays a much larger role in day-to-day society now. It's one thing if you differ but are in outlying political ideologies (e.g. socialist + libertarian), but an R+D will have lots of conflicts just in normal life. You're going to be hanging around with friends and political discussions will come up. For example, whether or not to build the wall. If you and your spouse are on differing ends of the political spectrum, you'll end up arguing against your spouse in these group settings which can create conflicts in your relationship. If your relationship is solid enough to be okay--great!--but most relationships will suffer.

I personally hate that almost every conversation seems to include politics. Even when I'm with people who share my political beliefs, I hate it. It's like no one has anything else to talk about any more. The last thing I want to do is to have political discussions where we disagree on fundamental levels. There is very little attempt at getting to common ground. It's all just arguing for the sake of winning.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I never really put much thought into politics and dating until recently. I don't really talk politics too often. Its obvious because I didn't even know my ex-girlfriend was a Trump supporter until well into the relationship. By the time I found out I was already attached to her at that point. I was floored when I found out. To put it lightly I assumed that most female Trump supporters wouldn't have been interested at all in dating someone like me (a big black guy). But as it turns out all of her friends and family were die hard Trump supporters too, and all of them were a part of my life at that point. It opened my eyes quite a bit. I had made the assumption you had to be at least somewhat racist to be a diehard Trump supporter, or at least crazy. Being honest it is something that would have been a total deal breaker for me had I known it upfront. But by the time I found out I was already falling for her. I really enjoyed our time together even though it ended badly. Political affiliation is no longer a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

wilson said:


> One reason to be agreeable about politics is that politics plays a much larger role in day-to-day society now. It's one thing if you differ but are in outlying political ideologies (e.g. socialist + libertarian), but an R+D will have lots of conflicts just in normal life. You're going to be hanging around with friends and political discussions will come up. For example, whether or not to build the wall. If you and your spouse are on differing ends of the political spectrum, you'll end up arguing against your spouse in these group settings which can create conflicts in your relationship. If your relationship is solid enough to be okay--great!--but most relationships will suffer.
> 
> I personally hate that almost every conversation seems to include politics. Even when I'm with people who share my political beliefs, I hate it. It's like no one has anything else to talk about any more. The last thing I want to do is to have political discussions where we disagree on fundamental levels. There is very little attempt at getting to common ground. It's all just arguing for the sake of winning.


Although I do have strong beliefs, I don’t actually talk about politics much to anyone. 

When I say I won’t keep my mouth shut, I mean in cases where something has come up. Such as when someone uses racist language, jokes, or slurs. I’m going to speak my mind about that and it won’t be very civil towards the racist. If the racist is my date, obviously this isn’t going to go over well.

So in a relationship, like you said, issues come up everywhere around you and as a couple, if you are diametrically opposed in views and are both outspoken, I mean it’s a disaster waiting to happen. For ME anyway.

The conservatives who wanted to date me also felt that my views were just silly little things to be overcome. Like my deeply held beliefs shouldn’t matter. It wasn’t as if they actually respected me and would respect my views. For them, “not talking about it” would mean they would talk about it and expect me to bite my tongue. **** that.

The best match I’ve ever had in this sense was my awesome, amazing younger guy (not that his age mattered in this way, just that’s what I’ve called him around here, my amazing younger guy).

He is a brilliant scientist. He is a liberal. He is black. He is an immigrant. He understood why #metoo is a thing and didn’t understand why men everywhere pretend it isn’t a thing.

This did not mean that we agreed on every single topic, but on the matters that are most important to me we generally agreed.

But talking to him wasn’t like just a constant stream of agreement on things. We explored each other’s minds much deeper than the agreed upon topics. He asked my opinion about everything and truly wanted to know me that way, he wanted to know who I am and what is in my mind. Not having the same background, we had hours and hours of conversation about how we each came to our conclusions. 

We challenged each other on some topics, but never in an attempt to disrespect either of us. Our combined intellect gave us so much satisfaction in conversation. We went all through history and discussed our thoughts on all of it, natural history, political history, cultural heritage, global history. We spent hours on just racial issues, here and around the world.

Damn I miss him.

But that relationship gave me a great thing: now I know what it feels like to have an excellent match that way and it raised my standards a lot.

The guy I’m currently seeing, there are some topics we know we aren’t aligned on and we avoid them because we don’t want to disagree and we don’t care enough about those topics to make it a thing. 

He is extremely political in general with very stark opinions. 

Though we are mostly not opposed on politics, we don’t discuss it much because he doesn’t actually discuss it, he just rants. And while I sometimes agree with his rant, I’m not interested in hearing a rant. So he keeps it to himself and around me and rants to other people. This works for me but is not ideal. However, I’m not in the market for ideal right now. I’m in the market for exactly what we have, a very close bond and huge respect and mutual caring for each other, but not a commitment beyond dating and enjoying each other for what it is. 

The sex is ideal, so that goes a long way with me. 🙂


----------



## 2&out

Third wave feminism ?? I've never even heard of it till mentioned here. Will I look it up ? Nope. LOL


----------



## Ynot

Personally I am with FW on this one. Regardless of which party or ideology one aligns with, there has to be some compatibility there to begin with. There are of course those who identify one way or the other, but if they had ever stopped to think about it, they would probably do exactly what I have done which is to identify as myself. That is all I actually look for in a person - authenticity. When they come out spouting off about this and that for everyone else but then carve special exemptions for themselves, I have issues with that type of person. Especially if the only reason given is because they are different.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> When I say I won’t keep my mouth shut, I mean in cases where something has come up. Such as when someone uses racist language, jokes, or slurs. I’m going to speak my mind about that and it won’t be very civil towards the racist. If the racist is my date, obviously this isn’t going to go over well.
> 
> ...
> 
> He is a brilliant scientist. He is a liberal. He is black. He is an immigrant.


I always find it quite troubling how the majority of people aren't educated in the intelligence of blacks, they lock their doors at night and forget it was a black person who invented the modern lock, they sit their butt to chuck a poop and forget its a black person who invented the modern toilet, they enjoy driving without shifting and forget it was a black person who invented automatic transmission, they suffered through gas attacks in world war two and forget it was a black guy who saved their lives with gas masks.

It's an issue with western colonials culture it seems, it was born of exploitation and slavery, race being a social invention to drive it. Rather difficult to get rid of its roots.


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you see the dating scene as a place where women do the picking and choosing and men just wait to be chosen? Just curious about part of the wording in your post. I see the dating world as a place where men and women both seek their match and one gender does not hold more power than the other in these choices.
> 
> So if a man doesn’t choose me to date because I’m a feminist for instance, I consider that a bullet dodged. I feel he is smart and knows we are not going to be a match so why waste time. Not that the guy himself is the dodged bullett, the wasting time is.
> 
> I have plenty of things about myself that lots of men would never want in a partner (besides politics). This doesn’t make me wish those guys would give it a chance. The guys who would not be into me for these reasons should absolutely not pursue me. People should be true to what they know they want and don’t want in a partner.
> 
> Exceptions can happen of course, but I’m never going to be looking to date in a pool of Trump supporters and just cross my fingers to find the exception.
> 
> There is no shortage of compatible people to date so why would anyone be open to dating someone they may have a constant deep conflict with? Again, this only applies when 2 people both have strong, opposing views and who will not avoid the topic. If 2 people both can just avoid the topic, then it may never be a problem. But I already know I can’t and won’t keep my mouth shut so there’s no reason for me to try to “overlook” such a huge political difference.
> 
> I mentioned already I’ve had right wing men try to convince me (via shaming and bullying tactics) to date them anyway. That just made me have even more disgust for them. They wanted to date me because they wanted to eventually be able to **** me. That’s it. That’s their only reason for wanting to date me. Now let’s say a right wing man was actually interested in ME and my thoughts and beliefs. If he was interested in how and why I believe the way I do, and if he did not dismiss my beliefs, then I may actually also be interested in his beliefs, how and why he has them, and may find in an adult discussion that I find him interesting and his views respectable.
> 
> But similar to your dating a feminist who feels you should be jailed for having guns, every conservative person I’ve ever had any kind of date discussion with felt that I must a silly, loud mouthed and mercurial dingbat who doesn’t actually understand anything about the world (that’s the view of feminism these men had).
> 
> So I learned quickly it isn’t a good match and to avoid it. I’ve literally stopped speaking to certain relatives and dumped friends and acquaintances who were so far to the right that I simply cannot relate to them or respect them anymore. I don’t have time to be around people who make me cringe and upset my stomach. I’m done reading or joining certain threads here at TAM for the same reason.


There is a lot to unpack here. On the topic of choice. No, I actually see it more like a "is it a match", "is there chemistry". I have had combinations of both. Politics, in general, used to matter far less to me in terms of D or R or I or L. First or third wave whatevermacallit (that's my sense of humor) I didn't have and in a way still don't have much of an opinion over. 

Now, I am OK with people having different opinions. Maybe it means we aren't a match as you say. As to, "Do women choose." Well, I think we both do. I admit, I never targeted politics as potential deal breakers until recently so I am working on adjusting that. In that regards I am not sure if we are saying the same things just different ways as you sound grounded and you already have a clear vision of your deal breakers. 

If you were to ask me 8 months ago. Could I date someone who hates trump? The answer would have been absolutely. I got my skeleton in the closet, which seems to now be a polarizing issue. (IE I am a gun guy.) 

As many here have suggested, I feel as if I need to narrow my search for certain political agendas. Which is unfortunate, but isn't that life? 

Also, ignoring the feminist part. You probably have great options because you are a great person who sees beyond the surface and connects deeply at an emotional level. You likely have high standards, but the needs and wants that are there for you are realistic. It has nothing to do with idealogy IMHO. 


I have friends, both male and female who have turned each other down after admitting feelings for each other later for the craziest things like. "I want to be with a partner that drinks more with me...." :laugh:.


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> As many here have suggested, I feel as if I need to narrow my search for certain political agendas. Which is unfortunate, but isn't that life?
> 
> Also, ignoring the feminist part. You probably have great options because you are a great person who sees beyond the surface and connects deeply at an emotional level. You likely have high standards, but the needs and wants that are there for you are realistic. It has nothing to do with idealogy IMHO.
> 
> I have friends, both male and female who have turned each other down after admitting feelings for each other later for the craziest things like. "I want to be with a partner that drinks more with me...." :laugh:.


....it is really unfortunate though? I mean, it truly helps me. I like having something objective to help me sort things out. Like for some who are strictly religious, they usually wouldn't be with someone who identifies as a pagan or wiccan, right? And no one would think it was odd that they would want to know upfront if a person was so far outside of their religious beliefs before they dated them. To me this is just common sense, however before the Trump years, I would not have ruled out an R necessarily just based on that alone. And actually, I would probably date an R now as long as he was middle of the road and held the same views I do about Trump. That's why for me, the Trump question is all I need to know for this kind of weeding out.

When I was chatting with new guys, getting to know them (usually by text, like before the first date), I would ask their opinion on Trump. There were ever only 2 types of answers.

1. I think he's a raving lunatic (my words, they may have used other words but similar meaning).

2. I don't think politics are that important.

The second answer always - and I mean ALWAYS - meant that this person was most certainly a Trump lover but just didn't want to say it (again, because hey! She won't let me **** her eventually if I say I support Trump). So I would inquire further until I got what I needed, the truth that yes, they are Trump lovers. Now I'm even more turned off by them. They were trying to downplay THAT to try to get into my pants?? Ugh.

Someone asks me if I am a feminist, I'm not going to hedge and say it "isn't important" just so some guy might want to continue dating me. Sheesh.

When I was on Bumble earlier this year, I was so delighted to see LOTS of guys who said straight up in their profile "if you voted for Trump, swipe left" (which means - pass me by). I had something similar in my profile. This makes things even easier. I don't want to waste time getting to know someone's surface traits only to end up finding out later that their political stance is abhorrent to me.

As far as me having great options....awww, what you said was very sweet. And yes, I think that describes it pretty well. 

And as far as "I want a partner that drinks more with me"....ha ha! That also sounds like a perfectly reasonable reason to next someone. :laugh:


----------



## 269370

2&out said:


> Third wave feminism ?? I've never even heard of it till mentioned here. Will I look it up ? Nope. LOL



My favourite is the 4th wave: it’s when all the 3rd wave feminists sell all their cats and become normal again, because they got sick of being alone all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Not

I had no idea politics plays such an insidious role in the dating world. I’m in trouble then. I absolutely hate politics with a passion and wish all sides would just STFU. It’s like watching a hurricane made of millions of people screaming at each other as it sweeps across our country. Trump doesn’t have the power to do the kind of damage this hurricane can. It’s all on us. 

I have no idea what party that places me in and I really don’t give two ****s. I guess if a man decides to not take an interest in me simply because I feel this way, then thank god I dodged that bullet.


----------



## Ynot

Not said:


> I had no idea politics plays such an insidious role in the dating world. I’m in trouble then. I absolutely hate politics with a passion and wish all sides would just STFU. It’s like watching a hurricane made of millions of people screaming at each other as it sweeps across our country. Trump doesn’t have the power to do the kind of damage this hurricane can. It’s all on us.
> 
> I have no idea what party that places me in and I really don’t give two ****s. I guess if a man decides to not take an interest in me simply because I feel this way, then thank god I dodged that bullet.


Hey don't sweat it. The reality is that most of this only pertains to hardcore extremists on either side. The 10% on the extreme right or left will still accept the middle 80%, but they will still reject each other. IOW if someone really thinks Dipstick Donald is going the make America great again, they will reject someone who thinks Has Been Hillary was the second coming and vice versa.


----------



## Red Sonja

Faithful Wife said:


> When I was on Bumble earlier this year, I was so delighted to see LOTS of guys who said straight up in their profile *"if you voted for Trump, swipe left"* (which means - pass me by). I had something similar in my profile. This makes things even easier. I don't want to waste time getting to know someone's surface traits only to end up finding out later that their political stance is abhorrent to me.



I look at this as an indication of "black or white thinking" and happily swipe left. I am not a Trump supporter (I personally think he's a narcissistic ass) however in general if someone is that focused on filtering others through a specific criterion then we would be incompatible.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Red Sonja said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was on Bumble earlier this year, I was so delighted to see LOTS of guys who said straight up in their profile *"if you voted for Trump, swipe left"* (which means - pass me by). I had something similar in my profile. This makes things even easier. I don't want to waste time getting to know someone's surface traits only to end up finding out later that their political stance is abhorrent to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I look at this as an indication of "black or white thinking" and happily swipe left. I am not a Trump supporter (I personally think he's a narcissistic ass) however in general if someone is that focused on filtering others through a specific criterion then we would be incompatible.
Click to expand...

It was funny too because when I was on bumble and traveled to a much more conservative state recently, (bumble accesses your location in real time), I saw lots of profiles that said “libtards swipe left”. I just found such a stark difference in this way between dating pools based on location. 

For me, if it’s black and white thinking on my part, I’m good with that. I’m pretty black and white on certain things and don’t have much preference on other things. To me Trump is a black thing.


----------



## wilson

Politics are often a source of contention, and sources of contention are often wedges that drive relationships apart. If you're looking for a long-term relationship, there's no point in starting it with someone who is going to obviously disagree with you on many things you hold dear. What's going to happen on the day when there are demonstrations about building the wall and one of you is for and the other against? Are you going to spend the evening before sipping wine and helping make each other's signs, then go to the protest and yell at each other across the barricades, then come home and fondly reminisce? 

So if you're looking for a partner for marriage, being different in this area will likely contribute to marriage problems. But you're looking for a bit of short-term fun, go for it! The drama will make the relationship more exciting.


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## 269370

ReformedHubby said:


> Teslas are neat but I just can't do it. I need to hear my car, I need to feel them. Both of mine you can hear coming from behind, and my neighbors tell me that if I get up early they are loud enough to wake the dead. I wouldn't have it any other way. I didn't get special exhausts, its just how a V12 and biturbo V8 are supposed to sound.




I don’t understand why noise is important. I love the fact that Teslas are basically completely silent. You can listen to music.
And also turn on that autopilot and you have both hands free to jerk off or eat a sandwich or whatever. The car was designed with men in mind


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## 3Xnocharm

ReformedHubby said:


> Teslas are neat but I just can't do it. I need to hear my car, I need to feel them. Both of mine you can hear coming from behind, and my neighbors tell me that if I get up early they are loud enough to wake the dead. I wouldn't have it any other way. I didn't get special exhausts, its just how a V12 and biturbo V8 are supposed to sound.


I wish I could afford to have a car like this! I am impressed how loud the modern GTO's are, I can always hear them coming and know what it is! Also the thought of our society eventually being stuck with self driving cars makes me absolutely sick.  Driving is part of our culture, part who we are. I cant imagine just sitting there, being forced to trust in this machine. No thank you!!!

Regarding politics... I have always been of the "we don't talk about that" camp. I prefer NOT to talk about politics with ANYONE. However with the current climate, I think its important that you either agree with each other's politics, or you openly agree to respectfully disagree. (I have never been so disgusted with my country!) And I do see it being a fairly important point to consider when starting to date.


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## Red Sonja

inmyprime said:


> I don’t understand why noise is important. I love the fact that Teslas are basically completely silent.


Because there are _very_ few things that are more sexy than the sound of a well-tuned American muscle car, that's why. 

Just sold my '69 Camaro R/S to a collector in Australia, now on the lookout for a '67 GTO, in mopar purple if possible.


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## 2&out

My son recently bought a Tesla SUV. It is very fast and silent. And very cool. They are the near future that the new generation wants/expects. Self drive safer than humans. It's not "driving" as an experience or fun/satisfaction tho IMO.

As far as the political opinion thing. I'm that older male, over 50 type. One of those that feels/sees no reason to marry again. Politics to me is an endless useless boring discussion. Little changes these days regardless of party in power both POTUS or Congress. Reading FW posts, - I'm one of "those" guys she has no interest in. I have never/don't "online" but if I did I'd likely answer the bland no answer on politics. She wants someone to agree and understand her. Fair enough. I just want to F her/you and do social and fun stuff. I have the $ to treat you well. Do I want to be your "soul mate" and discuss politics ? LOL. LOL. No. I will respect you for being fun to be with and not tell me how to live or think. I will return the same.

Weirdly - I'm about 7 months "in" on a "relationship". LOL. I expected her to kick me to the curb 6 months ago. I'm expecting she will at some point so I treat each convo/meeting as maybe the last. And I will be fine/good if it is. But damn she is interesting and fun. But so am I.


----------



## 2&out

Plum Crazy Sonja ?  No MOPAR cool unique paint on GM cars so buy and paint !  It actually only took selling 1 of my others to finance almost all of my "new" car. 1973 "Brewster Green" TransAm SD455. I bought about 30 yrs ago. Not worth a lot then but I kind of knew...  Rarely drove and now collector and pretty "hot" right now - so time to sell. Even I am surprised a very good, original, but not perfect/show TransAm could be worth 62K. Took a whole 3 days to sell. But hey - about 8 MPG ! LOL. It didn't drink gas - it beer bong chugged it and premium at that.


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## ne9907

Good Morning guys~

Here is a little update on me. I have been dating the same man for close to two years now. I love him like crazy. Our relationship has been like a long summer vacation. However I think our time together is coming to an end. About five months ago, he nonchalantly asked me to marry me. I said no, and told him I was not getting married again
Last weekend I met his mom and sister for the first time at his niece's party. I had already met his dad and brother. 
When we arrived from the party, I was drinking wine and he smoked a joint. He suddenly got on his knees and began saying stuff like "i am going to ask your family to marry you" 
He was smiling so hard and we were joking so I laughed out loud. He knows my views on marriage. He knows I do not wish to get married again.
Yesterday we got into a small argument and he said we were just wasting each other times, I agree. 
I love this guy like crazy. Yet, I know he is not marriage material. The situation is not fair for him, because I am willing to **** him and not marry him. THe thing is that I will be devastated if he walks away, but I also know I will be fine.

I do not want to marry. If he walks, I will be crying my eyes out here, but I will be okay in the end


----------



## hope4family

ne9907 said:


> Good Morning guys~
> 
> Here is a little update on me. I have been dating the same man for close to two years now. I love him like crazy. Our relationship has been like a long summer vacation. However I think our time together is coming to an end. About five months ago, he nonchalantly asked me to marry me. I said no, and told him I was not getting married again
> Last weekend I met his mom and sister for the first time at his niece's party. I had already met his dad and brother.
> When we arrived from the party, I was drinking wine and he smoked a joint. He suddenly got on his knees and began saying stuff like "i am going to ask your family to marry you"
> He was smiling so hard and we were joking so I laughed out loud. He knows my views on marriage. He knows I do not wish to get married again.
> Yesterday we got into a small argument and he said we were just wasting each other times, I agree.
> I love this guy like crazy. Yet, I know he is not marriage material. The situation is not fair for him, because I am willing to **** him and not marry him. THe thing is that I will be devastated if he walks away, but I also know I will be fine.
> 
> I do not want to marry. If he walks, I will be crying my eyes out here, but I will be okay in the end


Three things stand out. 
1) You don't want to get married. 
2) He wants to. 
3) You say he isn't marriage material. (On top of the other 2) 

Why are you with him again? Or you just sticking with him until he fires you? To sound silly, would you stay in a job where you were happy enough but waiting to get fired?


----------



## Red Sonja

2&out said:


> Plum Crazy Sonja ?  No MOPAR cool unique paint on GM cars so buy and paint !  It actually only took selling 1 of my others to finance almost all of my "new" car. 1973 "Brewster Green" TransAm SD455. I bought about 30 yrs ago. Not worth a lot then but I kind of knew...  Rarely drove and now collector and pretty "hot" right now - so time to sell. Even I am surprised a very good, original, but not perfect/show TransAm could be worth 62K. Took a whole 3 days to sell. *But hey - about 8 MPG ! LOL. It didn't drink gas - it beer bong chugged it and premium at that.*


:lol:

But gas was only $0.75 per gallon back then and beer was $5.00 per case, so no problem!


----------



## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> As far as the political opinion thing. I'm that older male, over 50 type. One of those that feels/sees no reason to marry again. Politics to me is an endless useless boring discussion. Little changes these days regardless of party in power both POTUS or Congress. Reading FW posts, - I'm one of "those" guys she has no interest in. I have never/don't "online" but if I did I'd likely answer the bland no answer on politics. She wants someone to agree and understand her. Fair enough. I just want to F her/you and do social and fun stuff. I have the $ to treat you well. Do I want to be your "soul mate" and discuss politics ? LOL. LOL. No. I will respect you for being fun to be with and not tell me how to live or think. I will return the same.


I know that this is how it sounds, but it isn't actually like what you've described here.

I am perfectly fine with not talking about politics. I prefer that actually.

When I say I will not shut up about certain things and will always speak my mind, I don't mean I must be discussing politics all the time. What I mean is this...

Say I have Mr. Conservative who wants to date/F me. 

Mr. Conservative _really isn't_ that into politics and doesn't discuss them often with anyone. He may not even know what all the issues are on our ballots right now. OK, that's all fine and good. We can avoid the topic of politics and neither of us will feel any strain there.

BUT....now I'm out with Mr. Conservative on date number 2 and he makes a racist joke or statement. He thinks it was funny or timely, I think it is just a shadow forebearing of more (and worse) things like this to come. I make a gesture that indicates I didn't really think the joke or statement was funny or appreciated (while inside I'm already seeing where this is going and I'm right...) aaaaaaand his response is something along the lines of calling me a snowflake and telling me that blatant racism is a "small thing that shouldn't matter".

This is based on a true story.

How did I respond? Did I give him an earful about how wrong and racist he is? Heck no. I said I can see we are not a match, thanks. To which he twisted himself in knots trying to convince me that these small things "shouldn't matter" and that I'm wrong for expecting everything to be "perfect". I never responded to any of it. Am I an outspoken activist? No. I'm just exercising my picker to choose a good match for me. I'm not going to go lead a parade up to the guy's work doorstep and hold a protest. I'm just going to poof on him and never look back.

Now, if I met _Mr. Wonderful Conservative Who Also Isn't A Racist_ (I'm sorry, but where I'm at, so far, I haven't found one in my dating pool) and if this Mr. WC and I really could avoid the topic of politics, OR even better, if Mr. WC and I could ask each other thoughtful questions about our beliefs and then basically drop it, and if Mr. WC wanted to date and F and all that...I'd be down for that. No problem at all.

You see, this is not my first rodeo. And I've sniffed out literally thousands of men in my lifetime. What I have found in terms of patterns in my demographic is that the men who identify as conservative also have these other traits I can't be around...homophobia, racism, sexism, no matter how slight, I just can't be around it if it is deep within someone's nature. I have lots of friends and relatives who are like this. Some I don't mind being around because it just never comes up. Some are openly making statements that are abhorrent to me, and those I one way or another cut out of my life.

I know what "types" I can mix well with. And there are lots of them around me. I've never lowered my standards in this area and never will. It is a personal preference based on years of experience, not just in dating but also in friendships and other relationships. I won't stick around if someone displays certain character traits (that I consider flaws). And as soon as someone calls me a snowflake if I show any resistance to their blatant attitudes, I know this relationship is done. 

So again...once Mr. WC shows up and doesn't display racist, sexist or homophobic tendencies and also doesn't call anyone a snowflake just because they care about people who are not like themselves, give him my number. We don't need to be soul mates. But even to be F buddies, I have a minimum standard of non-racist.


----------



## azimuth

Faithful Wife said:


> What I have found in terms of patterns in my demographic is that the men who identify as conservative also have these other traits I can't be around...homophobia, racism, sexism, no matter how slight, I just can't be around it if it is *deep within someone's nature. * I have lots of friends and relatives who are like this. Some I don't mind being around because it just never comes up. Some are openly making statements that are abhorrent to me, and those I one way or another cut out of my life.
> 
> I know what "types" I can mix well with. And there are lots of them around me. I've never lowered my standards in this area and never will. It is a personal preference based on years of experience, not just in dating but also in friendships and other relationships. I won't stick around if someone displays certain* character traits *(that I consider flaws). And as soon as someone calls me a snowflake if I show any resistance to their blatant attitudes, I know this relationship is done.
> 
> So again...once Mr. WC shows up and doesn't display racist, sexist or homophobic tendencies and also doesn't call anyone a snowflake just because they care about people who are not like themselves, give him my number. We don't need to be soul mates. *But even to be F buddies, I have a minimum standard of non-racist*.



Just because someone votes conservative doesn't mean that they are inherently racist. Liberal voters can be racist too, were you aware?

We're all stuck with the same ****ty options to vote for president. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. Just because someone votes for a certain person, doesn't mean that they 100% support everything that they do.

It would be good to not paint with such a broad brush and maybe have a little bit of an open mind and a smidge of tolerance when interacting with people.


----------



## Faithful Wife

azimuth said:


> Just because someone votes conservative doesn't mean that they are inherently racist. *Liberal voters can be racist too, were you aware?*
> 
> We're all stuck with the same ****ty options to vote for president. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. Just because someone votes for a certain person, doesn't mean that they 100% support everything that they do.
> 
> It would be good to not paint with such a broad brush and maybe have a little bit of an open mind and *a smidge of tolerance when interacting with people*.


To the first bolded, yes, those get sorted out soon enough as well.

To the second bolded...as to the smidge of tolerance, are you suggesting that if a date really *IS* displaying a racist attitude, that I should tolerate it? Sorry, no can do. At least not tolerate it as in go on dates with that person again. Again, not that I'm going to discuss it with him or try to tell him he's wrong. I'm just going to disappear. 

What you think is tolerable is on you for who you date.

What I think is tolerable is on me.

Blatant displays of racism, sexism, or homophobia or even just a mean spirit....completely intolerable to me and sorry, not sorry.

ETA: I've mentioned before but will say again, there are MANY reasons men would next me. Many attitudes I hold, habits I engage in, beliefs I have, my past and sexual orientation....I'm like a bucket full of deal breakers for a LOT of men. 

Do I think these men should be "more tolerant" and "give me a chance"? Um, NO. I think they should respect their own preferences and look for someone who is more compatible.

Still not sure why people seem to be trying to talk me out of a practice that has worked well for me for my entire life.


----------



## azimuth

Faithful Wife said:


> To the first bolded, yes, those get sorted out soon enough as well.
> 
> To the second bolded...as to the smidge of tolerance, *are you suggesting that if a date really *IS* displaying a racist attitude, that I should tolerate it?* Sorry, no can do. At least not tolerate it as in go on dates with that person again. Again, not that I'm going to discuss it with him or try to tell him he's wrong. I'm just going to disappear.
> 
> What you think is tolerable is on you for who you date.
> 
> What I think is tolerable is on me.
> 
> Blatant displays of racism, sexism, or homophobia or even just a mean spirit....completely intolerable to me and sorry, not sorry.



No, I'm saying you shouldn't paint people with such a broad brush and call people who vote a certain way inherently racist.


----------



## Faithful Wife

azimuth said:


> No, I'm saying you shouldn't paint people with such a broad brush and call people who vote a certain way inherently racist.


I have been quite clear....the men I have been on dates with who identified as conservative ALSO displayed blatant racism. I obviously have not dated all of them. 

I know that there are R and C people who are not racist. So far I haven't dated one. I would be open to it if one asked me out.

However, since I have plenty of options of people to date who are not R or C, it really works out better for me if I stick to people I'm more compatible with.


----------



## Bananapeel

azimuth said:


> No, I'm saying you shouldn't paint people with such a broad brush and call people who vote a certain way inherently racist.


Some people are inherently judgmental and you can't change them because they feel that their opinions/judgements are more valid or righteous than other peoples opinions/judgements. It's not worth arguing with her about this topic because her belief system is part of her identity.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> azimuth said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm saying you shouldn't paint people with such a broad brush and call people who vote a certain way inherently racist.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people are inherently judgmental and you can't change them because they feel that their opinions/judgements are more valid or righteous than other peoples opinions/judgements. It's not worth arguing with her about this topic because her belief system is part of her identity.
Click to expand...

Yes, I use my judgment when picking who I will date. It has worked well for me. Lots of people would use their judgment to not date me either.

As far as deal breakers go, I’ve got way more of them on my side of the ledger than most people. And those who don’t want to date someone like me, I feel they are smart and using their judgment wisely. I would never try to convince someone I was the exception to their deal breaker rules. I would never say for instance that a guy who wouldn’t want to date a bisexual person should give me a chance. I would just say since they know their preference in this area I’m glad we didn’t waste each other’s time.


----------



## Red Sonja

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, I use my judgment when picking who I will date. It has worked well for me. Lots of people would use their judgment to not date me either.


Tip: don't move to the south eastern USA as there are plenty of so-called southern democrats who are racist, sexist and homophobic in residence there. Stay north of Maryland and west of Kansas, in general, if you want to avoid large concentrations of no-go dating pools.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Red Sonja said:


> Tip: don't move to the south eastern USA as there are plenty of so-called southern democrats who are racist, sexist and homophobic in residence there. Stay north of Maryland and west of Kansas, in general, if you want to avoid large concentrations of no-go dating pools.


I find many lovely like minded (to me) men to date right here in my awesome Portland, Oregon. No plans to move.


----------



## Bananapeel

FW - Here's some food for thought. When does a person doing a behavior deserve a label? For example, does one racist or homosexual joke make someone a "racist" or a "homophobe"? If not one joke, then how many and where do you draw the line? What if the jokes are made to a person's black or gay friends and they think they are hilarious, then are they racist or homophobic? Back when I was getting divorced my counselor had a long philosophical chat with me about this topic (more specifically when does someone that cheats become a "cheater") and it was eye opening from a psychological perspective, especially, when you also include situational ethics in the discussion. 

I don't think anyone here really cares who you date or how you screen people. Those of us that have commented just think it's strange to judge/label people the way that you have.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> FW - Here's some food for thought. When does a person doing a behavior deserve a label? For example, does one racist or homosexual joke make someone a "racist" or a "homophobe"? If not one joke, then how many and where do you draw the line? What if the jokes are made to a person's black or gay friends and they think they are hilarious, then are they racist or homophobic? Back when I was getting divorced my counselor had a long philosophical chat with me about this topic (more specifically when does someone that cheats become a "cheater") and it was eye opening from a psychological perspective, especially, when you also include situational ethics in the discussion.
> 
> I don't think anyone here really cares who you date or how you screen people. Those of us that have commented just think it's strange to judge/label people the way that you have.


There are people in my life who make jokes that are truly jokes and are funny and are not racist or homophobic. I know the difference.

In a new relationship, I just wait and watch and see where the person's heart is at. I get to know them and feel around for compatible/incompatible issues. There are many other issues that could be incompatible, not just these that we've been discussing. Usually if a person is truly racist/homophobic/sexist/mean spirited (here forth known as "those things"), it turns up in a few different ways and it looks consistent. At whatever point that is made evident to me, I walk away. Maybe it is the 2nd date, maybe it wouldn't be for a few more dates or whatever, but so far I have not ended up long term dating anyone who is "those things".

As for not wanting to date a Trump supporter in general, I don't know why it seems so "strange". Again, no true Trump supporter would find me a good match. Also, this...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...al-politics-plays-big-role-dating/1648976002/

https://www.npr.org/2017/02/14/5151...isive-politics-both-sides-stick-to-themselves

Swipe left if you voted for Trump - STATE - CNN Politics


Whether this is a good way to screen for dates or not, I don't see how it is "strange" when it is quite common these days.


----------



## Bananapeel

Maybe I'm just behind the curve but it is bizarre to me that political affiliation makes that much of a difference. My GF is strongly anti-gun and she went to a shooting event that I hosted because she wanted to be involved with my life (she didn't shoot and I wouldn't pressure her to anything she didn't want to do). If she was going to march for a cause I didn't agree with and wanted me there to support her, I would do that (simply because I am in her corner supporting her). Like I said before, I grew up in a house where my parents votes cancelled each others out and it wasn't a big deal. They even had times where they'd have debates the night before the election and both were so convincing they both changed sides and still cancelled each other out. I think that understanding and acceptance of another person is a far more important trait than what box they check on an election. But maybe that is because where I live and the people I meet just aren't racist/homophobic/sexist/mean spirited, regardless of whom they vote for.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> Maybe I'm just behind the curve but it is bizarre to me that political affiliation makes that much of a difference. My GF is strongly anti-gun and she went to a shooting event that I hosted because she wanted to be involved with my life (she didn't shoot and I wouldn't pressure her to anything she didn't want to do). If she was going to march for a cause I didn't agree with and wanted me there to support her, I would do that (simply because I am in her corner supporting her). Like I said before, I grew up in a house where my parents votes cancelled each others out and it wasn't a big deal. They even had times where they'd have debates the night before the election and both were so convincing they both changed sides and still cancelled each other out. I think that understanding and acceptance of another person is a far more important trait than what box they check on an election. But maybe that is because where I live and the people I meet just aren't racist/homophobic/sexist/mean spirited, regardless of whom they vote for.


I guess I'm just used to having so many qualities and a history that are most guys' deal breakers, it just seems normal to me to be sorted out by certain criteria that we have no control over (because it is the other person's decision). It doesn't seem odd to me, no matter what their criteria is.

I think we have our preferences for a reason, to help guide us toward those we may have the most attraction and compatibility with. Or at least, that is how my preferences have always worked well for me. I expect others should use whatever criteria they want to weed me out. Weed, being just one example (lol).

People tell me (here at TAM) that it is odd that I also have a preference for tall, fit, well endowed men, and that I must be a very superficial person for those things to matter to me so much. 

To me, it is simply a fact that I want to feel that lovely amazing physical attraction to my date/partner and I want to always feel it. My preferences so far have been fulfilled in that area enough to be sufficiently and consistently attracted to my mate. 

If someone has "smokers" as a deal breaker, are they being shallow for not considering that some smoker might just be the best match they've ever had?

For me I'm like "whatever deal breaker you have is up to you and I'm good with it, even if it puts me out of the running". I want to be weeded out quickly if they have a strong preference of some kind that I don't meet.


----------



## 269370

Bananapeel said:


> FW - Here's some food for thought. When does a person doing a behavior deserve a label? For example, does one racist or homosexual joke make someone a "racist" or a "homophobe"? If not one joke, then how many and where do you draw the line? What if the jokes are made to a person's black or gay friends and they think they are hilarious, then are they racist or homophobic? Back when I was getting divorced my counselor had a long philosophical chat with me about this topic (more specifically when does someone that cheats become a "cheater") and it was eye opening from a psychological perspective, especially, when you also include situational ethics in the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone here really cares who you date or how you screen people. Those of us that have commented just think it's strange to judge/label people the way that you have.




People often think I’m a racist, antisemitic, homophobic, trump supporter (I know, I’m Mr Perfect) because of the jokes I make (which are about racist, antisemitic, homophobic trump supporters). There are people out there who have no sense of humour whatsoever (mostly new age feminists, though some of them do, let’s not generalise  and it’s funny actually in itself.

I don’t know much about screening. I have only ever had to screen once properly, so I must be bad at it.
I guess the more you screen, the better you get at it? 🧐


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## Bananapeel

I won't comment on your physical preferences, but they seem normal. I like thin athletic women that are slightly on the short side. I won't date a fat woman. I'm superficial and readily admit that.


----------



## Lila

Bananapeel said:


> I won't comment on your physical preferences, but they seem normal. I like thin athletic women that are slightly on the short side. I won't date a fat woman. I'm superficial and readily admit that.


 @Bananapeel, why can you accept physical preferences but don't understand why someone would have politically preferences? They are both superficial, no?


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I'm just used to having so many qualities and a history that are most guys' deal breakers, it just seems normal to me to be sorted out by certain criteria that we have no control over (because it is the other person's decision). It doesn't seem odd to me, no matter what their criteria is.
> 
> *I think we have our preferences for a reason, to help guide us toward those we may have the most attraction and compatibility with*. Or at least, that is how my preferences have always worked well for me. I expect others should use whatever criteria they want to weed me out. Weed, being just one example (lol).
> 
> *For me I'm like "whatever deal breaker you have is up to you and I'm good with it, even if it puts me out of the running". * I want to be weeded out quickly if they have a strong preference of some kind that I don't meet.


For what it's worth, I agree with you whole heartedly. My life is an example of why common values, morals, beliefs is so important to share with a partner. When I do actually take dating seriously, I'm be damned if our political and philosophical ideologies don't match.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I'm just used to having so many qualities and a history that are most guys' deal breakers, it just seems normal to me to be sorted out by certain criteria that we have no control over (because it is the other person's decision). It doesn't seem odd to me, no matter what their criteria is.
> 
> *I think we have our preferences for a reason, to help guide us toward those we may have the most attraction and compatibility with*. Or at least, that is how my preferences have always worked well for me. I expect others should use whatever criteria they want to weed me out. Weed, being just one example (lol).
> 
> *For me I'm like "whatever deal breaker you have is up to you and I'm good with it, even if it puts me out of the running". * I want to be weeded out quickly if they have a strong preference of some kind that I don't meet.


For what it's worth, I agree with you whole heartedly. My life is an example of why common values, morals, beliefs is so important to share with a partner. When I do actually take dating seriously, I'll be damned if our political and philosophical ideologies don't match.


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## 269370

To be fair, if I allowed my wife to vote or have an opinion in any way whatsoever, we would probably not be as compatible since it means that she might be thinking independently. Or just thinking. (Is that the kind of thing that would put people off? ‘Cos this has served me well so far 


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## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> I won't comment on your physical preferences, but they seem normal. I like thin athletic women that are slightly on the short side. I won't date a fat woman. I'm superficial and readily admit that.


To me they are the same. Political leanings and physical preferences and many other preferences go into my dating decision making. I have a “type” and typically am very happy dating that type. Works well for me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just used to having so many qualities and a history that are most guys' deal breakers, it just seems normal to me to be sorted out by certain criteria that we have no control over (because it is the other person's decision). It doesn't seem odd to me, no matter what their criteria is.
> 
> *I think we have our preferences for a reason, to help guide us toward those we may have the most attraction and compatibility with*. Or at least, that is how my preferences have always worked well for me. I expect others should use whatever criteria they want to weed me out. Weed, being just one example (lol).
> 
> *For me I'm like "whatever deal breaker you have is up to you and I'm good with it, even if it puts me out of the running". * I want to be weeded out quickly if they have a strong preference of some kind that I don't meet.
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I agree with you whole heartedly. My life is an example of why common values, morals, beliefs is so important to share with a partner. When I do actually take dating seriously, I'll be damned if our political and philosophical ideologies don't match.
Click to expand...

If it makes me intolerant to say I won’t tolerate a basic incompatibility in any area that is important to me, then I’m intolerant for sure. 

Life really is too short.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lila said:


> @Bananapeel, why can you accept physical preferences but don't understand why someone would have politically preferences? They are both superficial, no?


Good question. The basis of dating is physical attraction and attraction either is or isn't there...it can't be negotiated. The purpose of dating is sex and companionship. Politics don't affect physical attraction and if people disagree on politics they can just choose to not discuss it. If I don't like how a woman looks I can't agree to just not look at her.


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## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Bananapeel, why can you accept physical preferences but don't understand why someone would have politically preferences? They are both superficial, no?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. The basis of dating is physical attraction and attraction either is or isn't there...it can't be negotiated. The purpose of dating is sex and companionship. Politics don't affect physical attraction and if people disagree on politics they can just choose to not discuss it. If I don't like how a woman looks I can't agree to just not look at her.
Click to expand...

A person’s mind directly affects my attraction to them. Certain minds are so unattractive to me that no amount of physical attraction could overcome it.

We have different ways of feeling attraction based on different things.


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## 269370

Bananapeel said:


> Good question. The basis of dating is physical attraction and attraction either is or isn't there...it can't be negotiated. The purpose of dating is sex and companionship. Politics don't affect physical attraction and if people disagree on politics they can just choose to not discuss it. If I don't like how a woman looks I can't agree to just not look at her.



Not true. You could turn her over, stick your Trump into her and talk politics until all three of you cum. Problem solved.

I hardly ever talk about politics to anyone. It’s bound to result in some sort of an argument. And i don’t expect others to conform to my opinions/views. I think we generally know too little what is REALLY going on. (And no, I still think Trump comes across as douchy-baggy but then maybe the country needs somebody douchy, for whatever reason. People dislike Putin too but who knows what Russia would be like if some other lunatic was in power. Same when Saddam was in power. Is it much better now over there? Doubt it. It’s the people that make or break a country). Why the hell do we think we are experts in politics if politicians themselves don’t understand what it is they are supposed to be doing? I try to stick to stuff I know.

Dominant sex for instance. Oh and Jews for Jesus.


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## 2&out

LOL inmyprime ! Touche!


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## Lila

Bananapeel said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Bananapeel, why can you accept physical preferences but don't understand why someone would have politically preferences? They are both superficial, no?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. *The basis of dating is physical attraction* and attraction either is or isn't there...it can't be negotiated. *The purpose of dating is sex and companionship*. Politics don't affect physical attraction and if people disagree on politics they can just choose to not discuss it. If I don't like how a woman looks I can't agree to just not look at her.
Click to expand...

Okay so I see the disconnect here. People date for different purposes. You state you date for sex and companionship. And I agree with you.... I know that if I was just looking for the occasional shag and/or recreational/hobby companion then nothing but looks and/or recreational/hobby interests would matter to me. However for a deeper emotional connection, there has to be philosophical, political, social, religious, etc. compatibility. 

Personally, I can't imagine trying to establish an emotionally deep relationship knowing that either he or I have to hide or never mention our political views for fear of stirring up animosity. Like it or not, Americans are highly politically divided especially under the current administration. Wouldn't avoiding political talk be kind of like having to walk on eggshells? It's the 600 lb gorilla in the room.


----------



## Red Sonja

Lila said:


> Okay so I see the disconnect here. People date for different purposes. You state you date for sex and companionship. And I agree with you.... I know that if I was just looking for the occasional shag and/or recreational/hobby companion then nothing but looks and/or recreational/hobby interests would matter to me. However for a deeper emotional connection, there has to be philosophical, political, social, religious, etc. compatibility.
> 
> *Personally, I can't imagine trying to establish an emotionally deep relationship knowing that either he or I have to hide or never mention our political views for fear of stirring up animosity.* Like it or not, Americans are highly politically divided especially under the current administration. Wouldn't avoiding political talk be kind of like having to walk on eggshells? It's the 600 lb gorilla in the room.


This is the part I do not understand ... why does disagreement on politics stir up animosity (even hatred when it involves Trump)? I don't go out in the world thinking that everyone should or must agree with me in that area or any other.


----------



## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> I find many lovely like minded (to me) men to date right here in my awesome Portland, Oregon. No plans to move.


Cleveland is north of Maryland 

People are trainable. DD's "fiance" started off as a conservative from Missouri. He's now slowly trending progressive, having seen the light. DD was the first "foreigner" his family ever met. And the first progressive. 

So far so good.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find many lovely like minded (to me) men to date right here in my awesome Portland, Oregon. No plans to move.
> 
> 
> 
> Cleveland is north of Maryland
> 
> People are trainable. DD's "fiance" started off as a conservative from Missouri. He's now slowly trending progressive, having seen the light. DD was the first "foreigner" his family ever met. And the first progressive.
> 
> So far so good.
Click to expand...

Not sure that is as true at our age.

But good for them!


----------



## Elizabeth001

I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t share the majority of my core values. Political views most often hold hands with them. 

FW...I get it sister 

ETA: kudos to you for having the patience to try and keep explaining. lol 


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## RandomDude

inmyprime said:


> Not true. You could turn her over, stick your Trump into her and talk politics until all three of you cum. Problem solved.


:rofl:


----------



## bkyln309

My family is politically diverse. We grew up in the DC area where my mom was heavily involved at politics. Parents were Democrats, aunts and uncles are evenly split, two sons are Republicans and I am a libertarian. Honestly, we always debate vigorously and let the differences roll off our backs. Politics is nothing compared to the relationships in your life. There are very good people on both sides. 

If you are not a shallow person, you can handle the differences without dividing over them. I will say the Democrats are making it very difficult with their attempt to suppress free speech with violence and vitriol. I see the Democrats of my family beginning to flee the party due to the radical and lack of tolerance for a different viewpoint. These people are hate filled. If that person came across my dating profile, I wouldnt hesitate to block. However, I think most Democrats are more central than the "leaders" of their party.


----------



## Bananapeel

Red Sonja said:


> This is the part I do not understand ... why does disagreement on politics stir up animosity (even hatred when it involves Trump)? I don't go out in the world thinking that everyone should or must agree with me in that area or any other.





bkyln309 said:


> My family is politically diverse. We grew up in the DC area where my mom was heavily involved at politics. Parents were Democrats, aunts and uncles are evenly split, two sons are Republicans and I am a libertarian. Honestly, we always debate vigorously and let the differences roll off our backs. Politics is nothing compared to the relationships in your life. There are very good people on both sides.
> 
> If you are not a shallow person, you can handle the differences without dividing over them.


I agree 100% with both of you. Thanks!


----------



## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> My family is politically diverse. We grew up in the DC area where my mom was heavily involved at politics. Parents were Democrats, aunts and uncles are evenly split, two sons are Republicans and I am a libertarian. Honestly, we always debate vigorously and let the differences roll off our backs. Politics is nothing compared to the relationships in your life. There are very good people on both sides.
> 
> If you are not a shallow person, you can handle the differences without dividing over them. I will say the Democrats are making it very difficult with their attempt to suppress free speech with violence and vitriol. I see the Democrats of my family beginning to flee the party due to the radical and lack of tolerance for a different viewpoint. These people are hate filled. If that person came across my dating profile, I wouldnt hesitate to block. However, I think most Democrats are more central than the "leaders" of their party.


Yes, of course the Democrats are the ones who are filled with hate. Please do block us, do us a favor. (Sarcasm)


----------



## hope4family

This thread has taken some fun turns. 

As stated before, I initially entered the dating world years ago thinking separate ideals on politics was OK. So I am left with two options. 

1) Find a strongly like minded woman who is well grounded in this line of thinking.....

2) Find someone of similar political background. 

On a separate note. Something I am looking for is someone who has an active lifestyle. I run/exercise about 3-5x a week. Now some of it is what I call "no fail workouts" as a workout you do that's crappy is always better than zero. 

Recently got rid of my Wrangler and went with a Acura RDX. More fun on the road while not sacrificing some of the active lifestyle parts. The JKU will someday return. Just not today. 

I also have another date lined up tonight. 3rd date, so I am pretty excited.


----------



## 269370

Red Sonja said:


> This is the part I do not understand ... why does disagreement on politics stir up animosity (even hatred when it involves Trump)? I don't go out in the world thinking that everyone should or must agree with me in that area or any other.




Yes I find this very strange. If anything, at least it’s a conversation starter...Better than sitting in silence, having dinner and nothing to talk about and wanting to stick a fork in each other’s leg.


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----------



## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, of course the Democrats are the ones who are filled with hate. Please do block us, do us a favor. (Sarcasm)



You prove my point. You need to be more centrist.


----------



## personofinterest

"Yes, of course the Democrats are the ones who are filled with hate. Please do block us, do us a favor. (Sarcasm)"


So classy and tolerant. Love trumps hate....or something


----------



## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> You prove my point. You need to be more centrist.


If only there were cameras on my shoulder when I've been on a date with a Trump supporter. It would make for such a great reality show!


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> This thread has taken some fun turns.
> 
> As stated before, I initially entered the dating world years ago thinking separate ideals on politics was OK. So I am left with two options.
> 
> 1) Find a strongly like minded woman who is well grounded in this line of thinking.....
> 
> 2) Find someone of similar political background.
> 
> On a separate note. Something I am looking for is someone who has an active lifestyle. I run/exercise about 3-5x a week. Now some of it is what I call "no fail workouts" as a workout you do that's crappy is always better than zero.
> 
> Recently got rid of my Wrangler and went with a Acura RDX. More fun on the road while not sacrificing some of the active lifestyle parts. The JKU will someday return. Just not today.
> 
> I also have another date lined up tonight. 3rd date, so I am pretty excited.


Good luck and be sure to update us!

Seems like the 3rd date is the one where people decide if they are moving forward or not.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t share the majority of my core values. Political views most often hold hands with them.
> 
> FW...I get it sister
> 
> ETA: kudos to you for having the patience to try and keep explaining. lol


Now that the same people who typically come around just to make jabs at me even though I don't even respond to them and have done nothing to them, they just like to show up where I've been posting and try to jump in on it with whoever seems to be "against me", they have nothing to add to this conversation because they aren't even single, but they are sure here to make sure to take jabs me, call me names.....yep, THOSE people.....ANYWAY....now that they are here I have lost my patience to explain any longer. That way they can just jab at air like they always do with no response from me.

Tra la la!


----------



## azimuth

ne9907 said:


> Good Morning guys~
> 
> Here is a little update on me. I have been dating the same man for close to two years now. I love him like crazy. Our relationship has been like a long summer vacation. However I think our time together is coming to an end. About five months ago, he nonchalantly asked me to marry me. I said no, and told him I was not getting married again
> Last weekend I met his mom and sister for the first time at his niece's party. I had already met his dad and brother.
> When we arrived from the party, I was drinking wine and he smoked a joint. He suddenly got on his knees and began saying stuff like "i am going to ask your family to marry you"
> He was smiling so hard and we were joking so I laughed out loud. He knows my views on marriage. He knows I do not wish to get married again.
> Yesterday we got into a small argument and he said we were just wasting each other times, I agree.
> I love this guy like crazy. Yet, I know he is not marriage material. The situation is not fair for him, because I am willing to **** him and not marry him. THe thing is that I will be devastated if he walks away, but I also know I will be fine.
> 
> I do not want to marry. If he walks, I will be crying my eyes out here, but I will be okay in the end



I'm sorry your post was buried since you have a real relationship problem. You said you love him like crazy, and he seems to love you, too. What makes him not marriage material? Do you think if he would work on those issues that you might reconsider? But if you know in your heart you definitely don't want to marry him then maybe it would be best to let him go. Do you feel ok with that or do you think it would be devastating? I'm sorry you're going through this.


----------



## ReformedHubby

bkyln309 said:


> If you are not a *shallow* person, you can handle the differences without dividing over them. I will say the Democrats are making it very difficult with their attempt to suppress free speech with violence and vitriol. I see the Democrats of my family beginning to flee the party due to the radical and lack of tolerance for a different viewpoint. These people are hate filled. If that person came across my dating profile, I wouldnt hesitate to block. However, I think most Democrats are more central than the "leaders" of their party.


I like this discussion..but I think most are looking at it incorrectly. There is no right or wrong opinion on this. Dating has nothing to do with PCness. You are allowed to discriminate and be as shallow as you want to be. I literally was attracted to my last girlfriend because I said to myself hmmmm....I have never dated a red head. The funny thing was on our first date I admitted this, and come to find out she swiped on me because she had never dated a black guy. It doesn't get more shallow than that. But...when we met we had awesome chemistry immediately. I guess the point I am trying to make is dating is an area where I think all of us should be allowed to discriminate. Gosh....that sounds awful. But I think we all do it. We all have our "type" and we rule out others based on that criteria. I don't think there is a right or a wrong here. Politics is a deal breaker for some, and for others it isn't. It doesn't mean any of us are wrong for feeing the way we do. I've got all kinds of weird quirks and things that are deal breakers that others wouldn't bat an eye at. But...its my right...and my choice.


----------



## personofinterest

Faithful Wife said:


> Now that the same people who typically come around just to make jabs at me even though I don't even respond to them and have done nothing to them, they just like to show up where I've been posting and try to jump in on it with whoever seems to be "against me", they have nothing to add to this conversation because they aren't even single, but they are sure here to make sure to take jabs me, call me names.....yep, THOSE people.....ANYWAY....now that they are here I have lost my patience to explain any longer. That way they can just jab at air like they always do with no response from me.
> 
> Tra la la!


Remember that girl in school who saw enemies everywhere? The one who was always upset and assuming everyone was out to get her?

I always had mixed feelings about her. On one hand, my heart really went out to her because she seemed lonely and unhappy, and I tried to befriend her when I could.

On the other hand, she was just SOOOO abrasive and victimy and confrontational, I sort of understood why she was lonely.


----------



## Faithful Wife

personofinterest said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the same people who typically come around just to make jabs at me even though I don't even respond to them and have done nothing to them, they just like to show up where I've been posting and try to jump in on it with whoever seems to be "against me", they have nothing to add to this conversation because they aren't even single, but they are sure here to make sure to take jabs me, call me names.....yep, THOSE people.....ANYWAY....now that they are here I have lost my patience to explain any longer. That way they can just jab at air like they always do with no response from me.
> 
> Tra la la!
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that girl in school who saw enemies everywhere? The one who was always upset and assuming everyone was out to get her?
> 
> I always had mixed feelings about her. On one hand, my heart really went out to her because she seemed lonely and unhappy, and I tried to befriend her when I could.
> 
> On the other hand, she was just SOOOO abrasive and victimy and confrontational, I sort of understood why she was lonely.
Click to expand...

You know one thing I don’t do? Is go around behind your posts and make insulting comments. Yet you regularly do this to me. Not sure why you do that but you do it consistently. I get that you don’t like me or whatever but I don’t know why you must chase me around the board just to jab me again. Like here you are, no contribution to this thread for dozens and dozens of posts and then out of the blue, you just have to come in and talk about how not classy and intolerant I am. As if jabbing me has any value to the discussion.

Sure yeah deny that you do this, even though that’s exactly what you have done here.

And going forward, I still will not follow around behind your posts just to jab you, instead I will ignore you like I always do. But you will likely continue to follow around behind me just to keep jabbing me.

Whatever reason you have for doing that is a mystery to me, but your posts to me and talking sideways about me speak for themselves.


----------



## Lila

ReformedHubby said:


> I like this discussion..but I think most are looking at it incorrectly. *There is no right or wrong opinion on this. Dating has nothing to do with PCness. You are allowed to discriminate and be as shallow as you want to be.* .......But I think we all do it. We all have our "type" and we rule out others based on that criteria. I don't think there is a right or a wrong here. *Politics is a deal breaker for some, and for others it isn't. It doesn't mean any of us are wrong for feeing the way we do. *


Like x 1000


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> bkyln309 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are not a *shallow* person, you can handle the differences without dividing over them. I will say the Democrats are making it very difficult with their attempt to suppress free speech with violence and vitriol. I see the Democrats of my family beginning to flee the party due to the radical and lack of tolerance for a different viewpoint. These people are hate filled. If that person came across my dating profile, I wouldnt hesitate to block. However, I think most Democrats are more central than the "leaders" of their party.
> 
> 
> 
> I like this discussion..but I think most are looking at it incorrectly. There is no right or wrong opinion on this. Dating has nothing to do with PCness. You are allowed to discriminate and be as shallow as you want to be. I literally was attracted to my last girlfriend because I said to myself hmmmm....I have never dated a red head. The funny thing was on our first date I admitted this, and come to find out she swiped on me because she had never dated a black guy. It doesn't get more shallow than that. But...when we met we had awesome chemistry immediately. I guess the point I am trying to make is dating is an area where I think all of us should be allowed to discriminate. Gosh....that sounds awful. But I think we all do it. We all have our "type" and we rule out others based on that criteria. I don't think there is a right or a wrong here. Politics is a deal breaker for some, and for others it isn't. It doesn't mean any of us are wrong for feeing the way we do. I've got all kinds of weird quirks and things that are deal breakers that others wouldn't bat an eye at. But...its my right...and my choice.
Click to expand...

If you lived in my area, I’d probably want to date you. lol


----------



## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> If only there were cameras on my shoulder when I've been on a date with a Trump supporter. It would make for such a great reality show!


My daughter spent Thanksgiving with her in-laws to be and actually sent a stream of hilarious pictures, including a 30 gun safe, NRA coffee table books, "how to defeat liberals" newsletters, and the like.


----------



## wilson

john117 said:


> My daughter spent Thanksgiving with her in-laws to be and actually sent a stream of hilarious pictures, including a 30 gun safe, NRA coffee table books, "how to defeat liberals" newsletters, and the like.


For many people, politics is more of a lifestyle than a topic of conversation. It's hard to see how someone like that would be happy with someone who does not share their political views. Their lifestyle and political views are intertwined.


----------



## personofinterest

Faithful Wife said:


> You know one thing I don’t do? Is go around behind your posts and make insulting comments. Yet you regularly do this to me. Not sure why you do that but you do it consistently. I get that you don’t like me or whatever but I don’t know why you must chase me around the board just to jab me again. Like here you are, no contribution to this thread for dozens and dozens of posts and then out of the blue, you just have to come in and talk about how not classy and intolerant I am. As if jabbing me has any value to the discussion.
> 
> Sure yeah deny that you do this, even though that’s exactly what you have done here.
> 
> And going forward, I still will not follow around behind your posts just to jab you, instead I will ignore you like I always do. But you will likely continue to follow around behind me just to keep jabbing me.
> 
> Whatever reason you have for doing that is a mystery to me, but your posts to me and talking sideways about me speak for themselves.



Actually, you post a lot of things I really like. Especially about sex and relationships. We are just far apart politically and with regard to which "wave" of feminism we hold to. I usually read and respond on my phone, so I don't even always know who I am responding to - bad eyes. It's also why I use talk to text a lot and come up with weirdo typos.

But yes, I admit I did know what I was doing with that last one. I get rubbed wrong with people who constantly think someone is after them....mainly because I used to be that way.


----------



## Faithful Wife

personofinterest said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know one thing I don’t do? Is go around behind your posts and make insulting comments. Yet you regularly do this to me. Not sure why you do that but you do it consistently. I get that you don’t like me or whatever but I don’t know why you must chase me around the board just to jab me again. Like here you are, no contribution to this thread for dozens and dozens of posts and then out of the blue, you just have to come in and talk about how not classy and intolerant I am. As if jabbing me has any value to the discussion.
> 
> Sure yeah deny that you do this, even though that’s exactly what you have done here.
> 
> And going forward, I still will not follow around behind your posts just to jab you, instead I will ignore you like I always do. But you will likely continue to follow around behind me just to keep jabbing me.
> 
> Whatever reason you have for doing that is a mystery to me, but your posts to me and talking sideways about me speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you post a lot of things I really like. Especially about sex and relationships. We are just far apart politically and with regard to which "wave" of feminism we hold to. I usually read and respond on my phone, so I don't even always know who I am responding to - bad eyes. It's also why I use talk to text a lot and come up with weirdo typos.
> 
> But yes, I admit I did know what I was doing with that last one. I get rubbed wrong with people who constantly think someone is after them....mainly because I used to be that way.
Click to expand...

Ok maybe some of the jabs you’ve taken at me were actually done without knowing who you were jabbing.

I just know that I don’t go jabbing you or other posters, so when someone has done it to me multiple times, I assume that person doesn’t like me or what I have to say. Which is fine - - but I don’t understand why jabbing someone out of the blue for saying something you didn’t agree with is ok. You weren’t even part of the discussion but had to come tell me I’m intolerant and not classy.

Ok ....gee ....thanks? What did you expect me to respond to such snark? And why do I even deserve such snark? I’m literally just answering questions about my own practices.

Anyway....I don’t jab others randomly in discussions I’m not part of so it confuses me when people do it to me.


----------



## personofinterest

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok maybe some of the jabs you’ve taken at me were actually done without knowing who you were jabbing.
> 
> I just know that I don’t go jabbing you or other posters, so when someone has done it to me multiple times, I assume that person doesn’t like me or what I have to say. Which is fine - - but I don’t understand why jabbing someone out of the blue for saying something you didn’t agree with is ok. You weren’t even part of the discussion but had to come tell me I’m intolerant and not classy.
> 
> Ok ....gee ....thanks? What did you expect me to respond to such snark? And why do I even deserve such snark? I’m literally just answering questions about my own practices.
> 
> Anyway....I don’t jab others randomly in discussions I’m not part of so it confuses me when people do it to me.


You make some good points here. I'm letting my annoyance over FB and other stuff dictate how I respond to strangers - not good.

I'm gonna stop bugging the single people now


----------



## Bananapeel

My bad for dragging out this political talk with my comments earlier, so I'll change the subject. Anybody have any great suggestions of things to do in Washington D.C. other than the usual Smithsonian and the like? I haven't been there in over 25 years and will be there for work for a few days. Any really good authentic ethnic restaurants that I should try? I'll be staying near the national zoo and plan on walking around town. I assume most of the crime isn't too bad in that area?


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## ReformedHubby

Bananapeel said:


> My bad for dragging out this political talk with my comments earlier, so I'll change the subject. Anybody have any great suggestions of things to do in Washington D.C. other than the usual Smithsonian and the like? I haven't been there in over 25 years and will be there for work for a few days. Any really good authentic ethnic restaurants that I should try? I'll be staying near the national zoo and plan on walking around town. I assume most of the crime isn't too bad in that area?


What are you looking to do? PM me if that makes it easier. With that said the majority of the city is safe, unless you're looking for me to tell you where you can score some crack or something....I am kidding!!!! I don't even think people smoke crack anymore. Wait...Trump supporters might :rofl:....relax folks...its a joke


----------



## Ynot

My update. I have been casually dating. I have had a few short term FBs over the past six months or so. But lately just haven't felt like putting myself out there. Currently, I have no real prospects on the horizon. But otherwise I have just been laying low. I go out a few times a week for happy hours, been working out semi-regularly, golfing about once a week with some buddies, but just not feeling like trying to get anything else going at this point.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> My bad for dragging out this political talk with my comments earlier, so I'll change the subject. Anybody have any great suggestions of things to do in Washington D.C. other than the usual Smithsonian and the like? I haven't been there in over 25 years and will be there for work for a few days. Any really good authentic ethnic restaurants that I should try? I'll be staying near the national zoo and plan on walking around town. I assume most of the crime isn't too bad in that area?


Go to the International Spy Museum (I know kind of like the usual Smithsonian stuff). They have a lot of interesting stuff there and a good James Bond exhibit. If you find any sunglasses there, let me know. I lost a pair there earlier this year.
Manassas Is near by as well. The exhibits for the First and Second Battles of Bull Run are pretty fascinating.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> If you lived in my area, I’d probably want to date you. lol


Ditto...I mean DC and Portland aren't that far apart...well...actually they are LoL.


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## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> My bad for dragging out this political talk with my comments earlier, so I'll change the subject. Anybody have any great suggestions of things to do in Washington D.C. other than the usual Smithsonian and the like? I haven't been there in over 25 years and will be there for work for a few days. Any really good authentic ethnic restaurants that I should try? I'll be staying near the national zoo and plan on walking around town. I assume most of the crime isn't too bad in that area?


 @FeministInPink should be able to give you the low down on DC! :smile2:


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## john117

wilson said:


> For many people, politics is more of a lifestyle than a topic of conversation. It's hard to see how someone like that would be happy with someone who does not share their political views. Their lifestyle and political views are intertwined.


Well, BF started like that but my daughter, good Komsomol card carrying member she is, showed him the True Path. He was ambivalent at first are switching allegiance then he met the resident political Apprachik, her younger sister. Out went Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh and in came Michael Moore, John Stewart, and Anderson Cooper. They both experienced Euro-socialism for 5 months in Italy together. 

Take that, Mitch McConnell


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## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> Go to the International Spy Museum (I know kind of like the usual Smithsonian stuff). They have a lot of interesting stuff there and a good James Bond exhibit. If you find any sunglasses there, let me know. I lost a pair there earlier this year.
> Manassas Is near by as well. The exhibits for the First and Second Battles of Bull Run are pretty fascinating.



I love the International Spy Museum.


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## FeministInPink

Hey @Bananapeel the area around the zoo is a pretty good/safe area. There isn't a lot to do there, in terms of sights. The zoo is pretty much it, if you want to see anything else, you'll have to take the Metro to other places. I believe the zoo is doing some nighttime Halloween-themed stuff at present.

The monuments are always fun, of course. I recommend seeing them at night, which can be very beautiful, especially if it's close to a full moon. 

The Intl Spy Museum is fun, but seems more geared towards kids/teens, and does tend to lean more towards the pop culture understanding of spies... it focuses more on the "sexy" stuff, rather than the mundane. It's fun, but I think they charge more than it's worth. I think it's a bit of a tourist trap, to be honest.

If you haven't been to the Smithsonian, you could spend all your time at their various locations. My personal favorite is the American History Museum. They have a full floor dedicated to the history of transportation, which is more interesting than it sounds, and they have a gallery of US pop culture memorabilia, which they change put all the time, so every time you go, there's something different. The Air and Space museum is always popular, and if you have access to a car, there is a second location out in Chantilly (about a 30-45 minute drive), which is essentially an airplane hangar with all kinds of planes that don't fit in the museum downtown.

If you like historical sites, I think the Ford Theater does tours. There's also Frederick Douglas's house, and Lincoln's summer cottage. I also really like Mt. Vernon, which is George Washington's plantation. They do house tours, but there are lots of additional building and the grounds are extensive, and the on-site restaurant is quite good. Also, in recent years they have added the grist mill and distillery, which is about a half mile away, has been restored, and is now fully functional.

If you're there over a weekend, you can go to Eastern Market, which is the only original market still in operation in DC. It's open 7 days a week, but on weekends they also have a farmer's market and arts/crafts vendors outside. There are also a lot of great food/restaurant options in the Eastern Market area.

For something newer and a little more hipster than Eastern Market, and with beer, you can check out Union Market.

If the outdoors is more your thing, the arboretum should be beautiful this time of year with all the leaves changing color, or there are plenty of hiking trails in Rock Creek Park. I'm a personal fan of Great Falls park, which overlooks the waterfalls on the Potomac. If you have a whole day, you can actually hike or bike the entire length of the canal path from Georgetown all the way up to Great Falls.

That's an overview... I can offer further suggestions if you need.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## john117

No trip to DC is complete without a visit to the Pentagon City Costco . Visit it and the surrounding area and you'll see why. Georgetown is nice, too. The Smithsonian air and space museum is yawn compared to the Udvar Hays (sp?) Annex at the airport. The White House Gift Shop (not in the White House ) has funny stuff galore. The Native American and Jewish Holocaust museums have excellent architecture if you're into that, and have awesome exhibits too).


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## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> No trip to DC is complete without a visit to the Pentagon City Costco . Visit it and the surrounding area and you'll see why. Georgetown is nice, too. The Smithsonian air and space museum is yawn compared to the Udvar Hays (sp?) Annex at the airport. The White House Gift Shop (not in the White House ) has funny stuff galore. The Native American and Jewish Holocaust museums have excellent architecture if you're into that, and have awesome exhibits too).


What's so special about the Pentagon City Costco? (Disclaimer: it's the only Costco I've ever been to, so I don't know what other Costcos are like.) That's my hood.

If you want to go to the Holocaust museum, my understanding is you need to reserve your time slot in advance. I haven't been yet, but I've heard you need all day for it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Not

I was over in DC, traveling between Quantico and DC, for about a week last summer and we had difficulty finding anything to do outside of the usual tours of the monuments and such but now I can say I’ve been there! The traffic on 95 though is an absolute nightmare.

We did visit the Marine Corps museum in Quantico, very humbling.


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## john117

If you normally go to other Costco stores that one is mind boggling bigger... A lot more interesting stuff. And gelato!!


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## Elizabeth001

I advise staying clear of NOVA altogether. There are many things to see outside of that area that take much less money & time or the equivalent of time driving 

BUT... If necessary... I prefer the museum of natural history. Park somewhere cheap and ride the train. 

Great Falls was also worth the drive/time. I was shocked to see people canoeing in there.  


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## hope4family

The date no 3 got moved to tonight. Here goes try number 2.


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## Livvie

john117 said:


> If you normally go to other Costco stores that one is mind boggling bigger... A lot more interesting stuff. And gelato!!


I've never been to a Costco!


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## Bananapeel

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm really looking forward to the trip.


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## ReformedHubby

john117 said:


> If you normally go to other Costco stores that one is mind boggling bigger... A lot more interesting stuff. And gelato!!


I happen to be a huge fan of the $1.50 Costco Hot Dog and a Drink special. Its been the same price for decades!!! But....I can't say I would want to see a Costco if I was traveling. How would I even bring anything back? Not knocking you John, we all have our interests. As I have grown older my activities when I travel have changed so much. When I was younger I was all about the night life. Its amazing how many cool things I missed in each city I traveled to because I was too busy being a party animal. Being hungover isn't really helpful for exploring during the day. These days I am more foodie and local history/sightseeing than I am party animal...but...I do still party some.


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## john117

Livvie said:


> I've never been to a Costco!


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## john117

Costco is an integral part of our travel plans when we travel (past) via car. You can get a pizza or two and enjoy, alcohol for predictable prices, cheaper gasoline, etc. I've been to Costco's in many states, Puerto Rico, Canada, and so on. Some Costco's in places like Florida or Kentucky have awesome area liquor.


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## 269370

john117 said:


> Costco is an integral part of our travel plans when we travel (past) via car. You can get a pizza or two and enjoy, alcohol for predictable prices, cheaper gasoline, etc. I've been to Costco's in many states, Puerto Rico, Canada, and so on. Some Costco's in places like Florida or Kentucky have awesome area liquor.




I know people who more or less live in Costco. They do tasting of food for free so basically eat & drink there for free.
We have one not far from our house but the problem is their ketchup bottles are larger than my children. So not sure you actually save money. Unless you prepare for nuclear war.


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## john117

Costco is not for single people either... Sigh.


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## Andy1001

@inmyprime and @john117 you guys need to get out more.


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## john117

Andy1001 said:


> @inmyprime and @john117 you guys need to get out more.


Every Saturday


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## Andy1001

john117 said:


> Every Saturday


I’ve never been in a Costco and judging by your photo I have no inkling to change this.
I was in a Walmart once.


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> @inmyprime and @john117 you guys need to get out more.



I am trying to get out of Costco since last Wednesday...I cannot find the door....those family sized Gin bottles (lifetime pack of 200x) make me dizzy.


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> I’ve never been in a Costco and judging by your photo I have no inkling to change this.
> 
> I was in a Walmart once.



Costco is where family dreams come true. You can buy amazing bargains for the next three generations and feel warm and smug inside because you saved 13p per toilet roll.
Do you have a family? Do you have dreams? Do they have healthy bowel movements? Go to Costco. But toilet paper. Let your dreams come true.


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## ReformedHubby

inmyprime said:


> Costco is where family dreams come true. You can buy amazing bargains for the next three generations and feel warm and smug inside because you saved 13p per toilet roll.
> Do you have a family? Do you have dreams? Do they have healthy bowel movements? Go to Costco. But toilet paper. Let your dreams come true.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok....no more holding back for me. I'll admit that I hate the place. I'm not saying its not awesome and unique. I hate it because I would always end up buying crap that I had no intention of buying. No such thing as a Costco trip for under $250. Even if you are going in only to buy laundry detergent, you end up coming out with a bunch of weird food you sampled....and for some reason a Kirkland Signature flanel plaid shirt....and you hate plaid, and it doesn't even fit your style :wtf: Its like somehow the store gets mind control over you. Sigh..../End Rant 

One thing for sure if I was one of the married TAMers that came over here and saw the turn this thread has made over the last page or so, I would swear up and down that Costco is all that single people care about, LoL.


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## john117

For you singles and newly singles, it's a good place to buy inexpensive furniture, mattresses, TV's, laptops,bulk food, etc. I routinely deliver $200 grocery volume to each of my daughters. S-wife's awesome urban loft was furnished entirely from there. Most of the gasoline I use comes from there. Great prescription prices, bakery, and so on. Depending on where you live, phenomenal liquor prices. Great small appliance prices. Great selection of utilitarian clothes. Perishables not a great idea if you're single. 

Can you meet cute singles there? Nope. Lots of spandex clad moms tho .


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## 269370

I never spent under a grand there...Don’t know about US ones but in UK, the wine selection is pretty good. Plus I always end up buying another flat screen tv and a Wendy house for the kids if it’s summer...

Yeah I know about the flannel shirts  Those are mainly for role play, pretending being a Costco boy who shows a bored yet desperate housewife around the aisles while her successful husband is jetting the world...He then overpowers and (pretend)rapes her on top of the multi-saving piles of giant bags of crisps until they pop open and squirt salt & vinegar all over the place...

My wife loves shopping there.



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## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> For you singles and newly singles, it's a good place to buy inexpensive furniture, mattresses, TV's, laptops,bulk food, etc. I routinely deliver $200 grocery volume to each of my daughters. S-wife's awesome urban loft was furnished entirely from there. Most of the gasoline I use comes from there. Great prescription prices, bakery, and so on. Depending on where you live, phenomenal liquor prices. Great small appliance prices. Great selection of utilitarian clothes. Perishables not a great idea if you're single.
> 
> Can you meet cute singles there? Nope. Lots of spandex clad moms tho .


Oh, come on. You like spandex as much as the next guy. Bet you own your fair share.:grin2:


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## Elizabeth001

I get my coffee beans from Costco. Single or not, I go through a ton of coffee and you simply can’t beat the taste! Or the price!!

I also get jerky treats for my dogs there. They are so expensive at pet stores and grocery stores. 

Also for singles, they have some really yummy frozen noodle bowls that blow the usual ones out of the water. 

Laundry soap? I only need to buy it once per year at Costco. What’s not to love about that? lol 

So I only go about once per month or 2. I take my oldest son with me who stocks up on his meats and lunchable stuff for my grand brats. 

A couple of odd items I have grabbed lately are a banging lunchbox (came with all the containers and 2 ice packs) for $10 and a new pair of gloves for this winter as my old ones were worn out. The gloves are SO warm and touchscreen friendly. 

In the Spring, I treated myself to a box of dahlia bulbs and have enjoyed them all Summer. They are still producing daily bouquets!










The biggest thing for me is that I have never purchased anything that wasn’t of excellent quality and they have an amazing return policy.


Costco is one of the few stores I don’t mind going to! 


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## Blondilocks

Their paper towels are the best. As john said, Costco doesn't really make sense for a single person. I let my membership lapse after husband passed on.


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## Robbie1234

Andy1001 said:


> I’ve never been in a Costco and judging by your photo I have no inkling to change this.
> I was in a Walmart once.


When you get married you will have to help with grocery shopping Andy, it's one of the rules that they don't tell you about. 
You will have to update your old thread on Friday.


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## john117

Blondilocks said:


> Oh, come on. You like spandex as much as the next guy. Bet you own your fair share.:grin2:


Nope. I cycle using regular gym shorts . 

Some people can find romance at Costco. For the rest of us it's not happening...


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## Andy1001

john117 said:


> Nope. I cycle using regular gym shorts .
> 
> Some people can find romance at Costco. For the rest of us it's not happening...


Does this place not have shelves like a normal store?
All I’m seeing is pallets of crap.(Ok,cheap crap).


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## john117

Andy1001 said:


> Does this place not have shelves like a normal store?
> All I’m seeing is pallets of crap.(Ok,cheap crap).


Some shelves... mostly pallets tho. As far as craposity of merchandise, I feel you're way off the mark. Costco got where they are largely because they offer top of the line stuff at great prices. They attract upscale customers, and make a ton doing so. If the 2% rebate I got last year is any indication, I spent about $10k there .


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## Livvie

So in case of a zombie apocalypse, Costco is a good place to head to to load up on supplies...


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## Ynot

I stopped going to Costco and Sam's Club after I got divorced. I don't need anything in bulk anymore. Now I shop are Fresh Thyme and World Market. Lots of hot healthy women in yoga pants. Mayne you guys should try there for a change of pace.


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## john117

True enough. 

A few months back Costco had their art easel on sale and a young couple with a little girl maybe 5 or 6 had one. The girl was so excited. They bought the 1000 crayon package too. I really had to control myself from falling to pieces. 20 years ago me, s-wife, and the girls had bought the exact thing for Dd1 to begin her art career. Memories are a bad thing...


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## ReformedHubby

Have any of you people (not meant in the offensive way) tried your hand at celibacy by choice for a sustained period of time? I have been thinking about it a lot lately. Mainly because looking back at my life I have pretty much jumped from one thing to the next, and even when I am not in a relationship there were always former flings that were happy to hang out with me while I was in between serious relationships. I don't think it means I am needy.....but there are probably those that would disagree. 

So I can't really think of anytime in my adult life where I didn't have a female companion that I am intimate with. I don't think there is anything wrong with my lifestyle. But...... lately I have been really curious about just choosing to abstain from sexual intimacy for at least six months. I guess I feel like I might discover some things about myself. I never really took the time to be alone when I got separated years ago. I sort of jumped into dating with both feet. But now I am thinking I should have taken a time out. For those of you that have done this, did you find it beneficial? Did you learn things about yourself? I am thinking doing something different might do me some good. My guy friends think I am nuts and I am over thinking things, my female friends think its an awesome idea.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Have any of you people (not meant in the offensive way) tried your hand at celibacy by choice for a sustained period of time? I have been thinking about it a lot lately. Mainly because looking back at my life I have pretty much jumped from one thing to the next, and even when I am not in a relationship there were always former flings that were happy to hang out with me while I was in between serious relationships. I don't think it means I am needy.....but there are probably those that would disagree.
> 
> So I can't really think of anytime in my adult life where I didn't have a female companion that I am intimate with. I don't think there is anything wrong with my lifestyle. But...... lately I have been really curious about just choosing to abstain from sexual intimacy for at least six months. I guess I feel like I might discover some things about myself. I never really took the time to be alone when I got separated years ago. I sort of jumped into dating with both feet. But now I am thinking I should have taken a time out. For those of you that have done this, did you find it beneficial? Did you learn things about yourself? I am thinking doing something different might do me some good. My guy friends think I am nuts and I am over thinking things, my female friends think its an awesome idea.


Yes I took some time and it was awesome for me. I went over a year without sex or even a kiss. 

I really needed this time and I was in a very bad place for most of it. But I could not mix in anyone else during it, I just had to plow through it.

Maybe you really didn’t/don’t need that time? Maybe you just really enjoy the companionship of women? 

You don’t seem very messed up to me, whereas I was a total wreck. Maybe you’re just ok with yourself and prefer female companionship to alone time? 

After my year of celibacy and getting my head back together, I waded into sex and dating with some rules and boundaries. Basically, for the first 6 months I wasn’t ready to actually have sex with anyone, so just wanted make out buddies and fun companionship from people who were ok with not getting more than that. Like either they were also dating others or they were also not wanting to get more deeply involved. That turned out to be the funnest six months of my entire journey! It helped me stay grounded, not get any emotions involved (beyond fondness and respect), and still have some hot fun with awesome people. 

I assume it’s over with this last lady?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ReformedHubby said:


> So I can't really think of anytime in my adult life where I didn't have a female companion that I am intimate with. I don't think there is anything wrong with my lifestyle. But...... lately I have been really curious about just choosing to abstain from sexual intimacy for at least six months. I guess I feel like I might discover some things about myself. I never really took the time to be alone when I got separated years ago. I sort of jumped into dating with both feet. But now I am thinking I should have taken a time out. For those of you that have done this, did you find it beneficial? Did you learn things about yourself? I am thinking doing something different might do me some good. My guy friends think I am nuts and I am over thinking things, my female friends think its an awesome idea.


Give it a try, its not like its going to hurt anything. Sometimes shaking things up can adjust your perspective on things. 

Four years, people...I've been without for four years now. And I'm in a relationship... :crazy:


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> Four years, people...I've been without for four years now. And I'm in a relationship... :crazy:


:crying:


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I took some time and it was awesome for me. I went over a year without sex or even a kiss.
> 
> I really needed this time and I was in a very bad place for most of it. But I could not mix in anyone else during it, I just had to plow through it.
> 
> Maybe you really didn’t/don’t need that time? Maybe you just really enjoy the companionship of women?
> 
> You don’t seem very messed up to me, whereas I was a total wreck. Maybe you’re just ok with yourself and prefer female companionship to alone time?
> 
> After my year of celibacy and getting my head back together, I waded into sex and dating with some rules and boundaries. Basically, for the first 6 months I wasn’t ready to actually have sex with anyone, so just wanted make out buddies and fun companionship from people who were ok with not getting more than that. Like either they were also dating others or they were also not wanting to get more deeply involved. That turned out to be the funnest six months of my entire journey! It helped me stay grounded, not get any emotions involved (beyond fondness and respect), and still have some hot fun with awesome people.
> 
> I assume it’s over with this last lady?


Thanks for sharing your experience. You make some good points. I don't think I need alone time now. I probably actually needed it back when I first got separated. I was actually dating back then when I should have been alone. Everybody in my life has an opinion . Those who went about their separation differently think its odd that I have dated a bit and have had two very serious girlfriends in the last three years. I am not easily influenced by the opinion of others, but I have to admit...I can't remember what its like to be alone. I can say that so far it sucks....LoL. Going without intimacy is the toughest part. For all the things that didn't work in my last relationship sex wasn't one of them. Do you ever stop missing it? 

Regarding my last girlfriend, she was an awesome person, but my feelings for her cooled a lot recently. It started because she was like Jeckyll and Hyde when drinking, she did lay off the sauce, but it was so hard to forget all the turmoil it caused. I also wondered if it would return, I didn't want to never drink in front of her ever again. I still am attracted to her, and I do think we would both still have fun together, but..... I just think there were a lot of things that made us incompatible for the long term. She said she was okay with moving forward as we were, but honestly I didn't feel right moving forward knowing that it will remain status quo for me, but she probably wants more even though she was telling me otherwise. Its hard to explain. Her words didn't exactly match her actions when it came to her expectations for us.

I guess I am at a point where I want to see what all the hype is about concerning celibacy. I think I am going to keep it up. I had a set back a few weeks ago but other than that its been ok, with that said six months of it was a probably too ambitious of a goal!


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## Bananapeel

After I filed for D I didn't date or have sex for a few months because I was recovering emotionally. My sex drive dramatically decreased after about a month (I didn't even want to jerk off), but came back almost immediately once I started dating. I wouldn't choose celibacy unless I was recovering from a pretty emotional breakup and just needed time to myself.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Do you ever stop missing it?
> 
> ....
> 
> I think I am going to keep it up. I had a set back a few weeks ago but other than that its been ok, with that said six months of it was a probably too ambitious of a goal!


When I was celibate, my heart was so broken that I did not want anyone to touch me in anyway. That made it so that I did not miss it at all.

Other times, when I've been a few months between partners, YES I MISSED IT every damn minute of every damn day. But you just learn to distract yourself with other things that are lovely (sex isn't the ONLY lovely thing we can do). 

Still my favorite, though!


----------



## 2&out

I have had a few periods of substained celibacy both by choice and not by choice - when I was married.


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## FeministInPink

When my XH and I split, the marriage was sexless anyway, so I had already spent a long time being celibate, but not really by choice. The last time we had sex was May 2012, he moved out in Feb 2013, and the divorce was final in Dec 2013... I waited another 8 months before dating again, and immediately had sex with the first guy I dated. It had been 2 yrs and 2 months at that point, so I was like a kid in a candy store... that guy and I had nothing in common but sex. And after him, I never went more than a month or two without.

But like I said, that 2 yrs 2 months wasn't my choice. I spent a lot of that time healing and growing, and I think the final step in that process was getting a lot of sex, to rebuild my confidence in terms of my attractiveness. In a sexless marriage, this is where the most damage happens. It makes you feel ugly and unattractive and worthless in a society where a woman's beauty is valued above everything else.

In this respect, I think being with Real Estate finally healed me. Up until the last day with him, he always made it clear that I was beautiful, attractive, and sexy. And I know our breakup doesn't nullify that, so I don't feel compelled to go out and get laid right away. If I wanted to, I could.

But this was a very emotional breakup for me. I was in love with him, and part of me still is, and my heart needs time to heal. I need time to grow and learn from this experience, and to focus on myself and building the life I want for myself. Now, I don't just want sex. (If I did, I have options and phone numbers!) I want a relationship with a quality man, a relationship with real long term potential, and I'm not going to find that if I just focus on getting laid. It's a little odd, considering that I'm a high-sexual-drive kind of gal... but I also don't have any interest in sex with anyone right now, and I think that's because I'm still healing.

So right now, I'm in a self-imposed period of celibacy. I don't know how long this will last; I think only time will tell.

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## 269370

ReformedHubby said:


> Have any of you people (not meant in the offensive way) tried your hand at celibacy



Every time I use my hand when celibating, I tend to cum.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you are trying to do btw and hope it helps you.



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## ReformedHubby

Thanks for responses. For most of us it seems that the choice to remain celibate was caused due to the grieving process at the end of a relationship. I totally get that. I wasn't really able to have any sort of emotions for a solid six to eight months after getting separated. I learned first hand just how important an emotional connection is to intimacy, because when its not there its just not as good. You can't feel anything. A lot of folks are under the impression they can screw there way out of a broken heart. It doesn't work....only time does....and for some poor bastards they never really move past it. I am far past the grieving stage, but I still want to do this whole celibacy thing for the time being. However, I am not going to make a big deal out of it. I suppose the right woman could convince me its not the path I should be on :wink2:.


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## Lila

Last night I went to a costume party at a bar for the first time in 6 years. I danced for almost three hours straight, met some good people, and had a blast! I did have a moment or two when I missed my STBX but overall, I was just happy to get out of the house.


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## Ynot

I went out tonight. I forgot it was amateur hour. Halloween, that together with St Patricks day and NYE, are the triumvirate for people who seldom go out and then dress up to pretend to be their alter ego. They spend the other 362 days of the year being some one they are not.


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## ReformedHubby

Ynot said:


> I went out tonight. I forgot it was amateur hour. Halloween, that together with St Patricks day and NYE, are the triumvirate for people who seldom go out and then dress up to pretend to be their alter ego. They spend the other 362 days of the year being some one they are not.


You don't like Halloween? I guess it depends on ones perspective. For me its good grown up fun, and sexy too. I haven't regretted breaking up with my girlfriend, but I know we would have a blast on Hallloween. We had even picked out costumes. I was going as Prince Akeem from Coming to America, and she was going as an angel, her "costume" was basically just white lingerie with a halo and angel wings...she said it would be fun for her dressed like that because she felt safe with me....sigh...I won't get to see that now...but I digress. I like Halloween because I think its fun to escape and play pretend for a while.


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## Ynot

ReformedHubby said:


> You don't like Halloween? I guess it depends on ones perspective. For me its good grown up fun, and sexy too. I haven't regretted breaking up with my girlfriend, but I know we would have a blast on Hallloween. We had even picked out costumes. I was going as Prince Akeem from Coming to America, and she was going as an angel, her "costume" was basically just white lingerie with a halo and angel wings...she said it would be fun for her dressed like that because she felt safe with me....sigh...I won't get to see that now...but I digress. I like Halloween because I think its fun to escape and play pretend for a while.


I guess I prefer not to need to escape and pretend. I prefer to just be myself. I don't need an excuse. But last night I guess I did wear a costume. You see, I was dressed up like a normal guy, no one knew in real life I am a sex fiend - LOL
But as I said, Halloween together with St Patrick's day and NYE are the three big days when all those people who spend the other 362 days of the year living up to everyone else's expectations try on their alter egos. They usually drink too much and get stupid.


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## FeministInPink

I went out last night to a karaoke Halloween party, and chose the character I've always wanted to dress as: Wonder Woman! Complete with cloak, sword, and shield. I had a blast... and nobody there was obnoxious or stupid drunk.

I sang "Holding Out for a Hero," which I felt was entirely appropriate.

I loved my costume so much, I may have to dress up again on Wednesday night after I finish my work shift and go to the hay bar down the street from my house. They will appreciate it.









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## ReformedHubby

@FeministInPink I love the costume! I might post a pic of me in mine on Wednesday.


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## Lila

@FeministInPink, you rocked that costume! And the fact that you belted 'I need a Hero' while wearing it makes you MY hero.. 

I totally agree with you and @ReformedHubby with regards to the fun atmosphere at costume events but now I'm wondering if @Ynot"s comment about alter egos is not off base? I wore a sexy leopard outfit that was misread by many for a cougar. I did get a lot of attention from younger men 😉. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>


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## FeministInPink

Thank you, @Lila and @ReformedHubby 

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## minimalME

@FeministInPink You're so brave. I could never do that.


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## hope4family

Anyone else get dating burnout? 

Currently talking to 3. Somewhere mid afternoon, I just put the phone down and left it there. As an introvert it's tiring. 

I had several social events. Went back to dancing, with lots of people wanting to talk. Very draining. 

So for now, going to see how the current 3 play out. IE swiper, no swiping...lolz. Oh man, back to Dad jokes.


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## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> Anyone else get dating burnout?
> 
> Currently talking to 3. Somewhere mid afternoon, I just put the phone down and left it there. As an introvert it's tiring.
> 
> I had several social events. Went back to dancing, with lots of people wanting to talk. Very draining.
> 
> So for now, going to see how the current 3 play out. IE swiper, no swiping...lolz. Oh man, back to Dad jokes.


Yes, each time I'm dating I reach a burn out period. Then I either take a break, or settle in on one of the dates and focus on them.

I'm also an introvert and I just can't keep it up for too long. However in the beginning of each run at dating I am exhiliarated and have a lot of fun and energy from it. Talking to 3 or more at a time is fun and the possibilities are fun to think about. But ultimately I can't have sex with more than one at a time so the dating has to stop at some point so a relationship (and sex) can start.


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## Idyit

Well... After a really rough run the last 5 years (two of the last three separated) I called it quits and filed. Moved out two months ago and I am now one of the "singles of TAM".

This thread has been interesting and sometimes depressing(?). And I'm here to learn and contribute where I can. Thanks for having me.


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## Ynot

Idyit said:


> Well... After a really rough run the last 5 years (two of the last three separated) I called it quits and filed. Moved out two months ago and I am now one of the "singles of TAM".
> 
> This thread has been interesting and sometimes depressing(?). And I'm here to learn and contribute where I can. Thanks for having me.


Welcome (?) aboard. I have been single for four years now. Yes it can get a little depressing, but probably less so than when I was married. At least now I know if I am alone on a Friday or Saturday night it by my own choice. Chime in whenever you feel like it.


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## Ynot

hope4family said:


> Anyone else get dating burnout?
> 
> Currently talking to 3. Somewhere mid afternoon, I just put the phone down and left it there. As an introvert it's tiring.
> 
> I had several social events. Went back to dancing, with lots of people wanting to talk. Very draining.
> 
> So for now, going to see how the current 3 play out. IE swiper, no swiping...lolz. Oh man, back to Dad jokes.


Yea, I am going through that now. I too am somewhat of an introvert and find myself getting tired of being "on". I have to withdraw and recharge my batteries, even in regards to friends. Sometimes I just want to be left alone.


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## Idyit

Ynot said:


> Welcome (?) aboard. I have been single for four years now. Yes it can get a little depressing, but probably less so than when I was married. At least now I know if I am alone on a Friday or Saturday night it by my own choice. Chime in whenever you feel like it.


I have had my bits of lonely creep in when I miss my kids or home. Short lived, because as you've said this is by far better than the last several years.


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## honcho

Ynot said:


> Yea, I am going through that now. I too am somewhat of an introvert and find myself getting tired of being "on". I have to withdraw and recharge my batteries, even in regards to friends. Sometimes I just want to be left alone.


Being "on" describes it perfect. It just gets tiring.


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## Elizabeth001

Yaaaa...too many bad dates for me and @Ynot won’t drive south or date anyone with herps. Not to mention he shops at Home Depot instead of Lowes 

So... I’m not dating but you know what? I’m GREAT! I’ve discovered that I don’t need no stinkin’ man (a little Blazing Saddles thrown in for good measure). I’ve been pretty happy with me and my dawgs!

OH! I start a new job on Monday. Getting back into the field that I spent so many years in and can’t wait. Getting my creative juices flowing and redecorated my bathroom today. That was the last of things held over from my marriage life. So hard to ditch bath towels that are already broken in!! 


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## FeministInPink

minimalME said:


> @FeministInPink You're so brave. I could never do that.


Which part, the costume or the singing?

ETA: And thanks for the compliment. People tell me I'm brave or strong all the time, but I don't feel particularly brave or strong. I frequently feel the exact opposite, actually.


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## minimalME

FeministInPink said:


> Which part, the costume or the singing?
> 
> ETA: And thanks for the compliment. People tell me I'm brave or strong all the time, but I don't feel particularly brave or strong. I frequently feel the exact opposite, actually.


Singing (or dancing or talking) in public. 

I'm starting a new business/website, and I was thinking about creating a video instead of writing for my 'About' page, because I've not seen that before. But there's a lot of fear and a lot of feelingl exposed. But I think it'd be good for me.


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## ReformedHubby

FeministInPink said:


> Which part, the costume or the singing?
> 
> ETA: And thanks for the compliment. People tell me I'm brave or strong all the time, but I don't feel particularly brave or strong. I frequently feel the exact opposite, actually.


Well...I maintain you are brave. I was too chicken to post a pic of me in my costume on here. It turned out pretty good though, I got a lot of compliments on it. I was out in DC on Wednesday night. Bar hopped a bit. Was hoping to see you and scream, "I know you from TAM!!!". Kidding of course. I would have said hi though. I hope the healing process is going well for you.


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## ReformedHubby

Screw it...can't have @FeministInPink being the only one posting a costume pic. I will leave it up for a bit. Its the only non group photo I have from the evening.


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## minimalME

ReformedHubby said:


> Screw it...can't have @FeministInPink being the only one posting a costume pic. I will leave it up for a bit. Its the only non group photo I have from the evening.
> 
> View attachment 63635


You look amazing! Well done!!!


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## FeministInPink

ReformedHubby said:


> Screw it...can't have @FeministInPink being the only one posting a costume pic. I will leave it up for a bit. Its the only non group photo I have from the evening.
> 
> View attachment 63635


That's an amazing costume!!! Did the millenials get it, or was it only recognizable to old farts like us? LOL

I didn't go out on Halloween night, since I went out over the weekend. I also had to work Halloween evening, so I didnt get home until 11 PM, and didnt feel like going out after.

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## ReformedHubby

FeministInPink said:


> That's an amazing costume!!! Did the millenials get it, or was it only recognizable to old farts like us? LOL
> 
> I didn't go out on Halloween night, since I went out over the weekend. I also had to work Halloween evening, so I didnt get home until 11 PM, and didnt feel like going out after.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


The millennials actually did get it. I was surprised, I didn't know the movie was that much of a classic. I had a lot of fun with it. Everytime I saw someone with a Black Panther related costume on I would say Zamunda and Wakanda forever!!!!....of course two completely fictitious African countries from their respective movies. I was out in the midtown area for a bit, not too far from Dupont...It was a good night...but I must say...there is a reason why I don't party like a college kid all the time. I had to take the next TWO DAYS off!!!


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## FeministInPink

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I maintain you are brave. I was too chicken to post a pic of me in my costume on here. It turned out pretty good though, I got a lot of compliments on it. I was out in DC on Wednesday night. Bar hopped a bit. Was hoping to see you and scream, "I know you from TAM!!!". Kidding of course. I would have said hi though. I hope the healing process is going well for you.


Thanks 

I totally missed the fact that you are in the DC area. We should get together some time!

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## FeministInPink

minimalME said:


> Singing (or dancing or talking) in public.
> 
> I'm starting a new business/website, and I was thinking about creating a video instead of writing for my 'About' page, because I've not seen that before. But there's a lot of fear and a lot of feel exposed. But I think it'd be good for me.


I love performing and public speaking, so I rarely get nervous. This past May, however, I had an amazing opportunity... a friend gave me his tickets to see Waitress when it was playing in DC, and it just happened to be that his tickets were for karaoke night! Audience members can enter their name in a lottery to sing onstage after the performance with the show band, and I was the second name they picked! That made me super nervous, because it was a huge audience and there were cast members up on stage as well. My legs were shaking the entire time.

Luckily, I have a video! (It's easier to watch on a phone because the orientation is messed up.)

https://youtu.be/y_9A0q4ZTdw

(You can hear Real Estate laughing in the video at the end.)
@minimalME I think you should do the video. Embrace the things that scare you, and conquer them! My one piece of advice is to get a professional to film it, rather than doing it yourself.

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## sunsetmist

FeministInPink said:


> I love performing and public speaking, so I rarely get nervous. This past May, however, I had an amazing opportunity... a friend gave me his tickets to see Waitress when it was playing in DC, and it just happened to be that his tickets were for karaoke night! Audience members can enter their name in a lottery to sing onstage after the performance with the show band, and I was the second name they picked! That made me super nervous, because it was a huge audience and there were cast members up on stage as well. My legs were shaking the entire time.
> 
> Luckily, I have a video! (It's easier to watch on a phone because the orientation is messed up.)
> 
> https://youtu.be/y_9A0q4ZTdw
> 
> (You can hear Real Estate laughing in the video at the end.)
> @minimalME I think you should do the video. Embrace the things that scare you, and conquer them! My one piece of advice is to get a professional to film it, rather than doing it yourself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Really special video. Thanks for sharing. Audience really liked you...


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## Faithful Wife

FIP - re: the video......wowwww!!!!!!! Are you a pro???

Reformed Hubby....Price Charming, hubba hubba!! :x


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## Lila

@FeministInPink WOW lady! You have some serious skills as a singer and performer. Ever tried performing in local theater/musicals?
@ReformedHubby, that's a fun costume. Did you get asked for pics?

Halloween is my all time favorite holiday. I hadn't dressed up in several years but decided to undo that trend this year. Here I am as a leopard. My friend was my partner in crime.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Reformed Hubby....Price Charming, hubba hubba!! :x


There has to be a business reason to go to Portland :scratchhead:


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## FeministInPink

sunsetmist said:


> Really special video. Thanks for sharing. Audience really liked you...


I'm SO glad I got it on video. It was an amazing experience. After we left, we got turned around trying to find our car, and ended up walking back towards the theatre... we were stopped by a couple people who recognized me and wanted to tell me how much they enjoyed it, which was definitely an ego boost.

A sign that Real Estate isn't a good fit for me: he made a comment that I was a good singer, but I wasn't great. He didn't fully appreciate my vocal skills.

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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> FIP - re: the video......wowwww!!!!!!! Are you a pro???


No, but I took years of vocal training when I was younger. I'm thinking of taking it up again when I can afford it. I've been approached by vocal coaches who have heard me sing and want to work with me, but I haven't had the money to do it... when I had the money, I didn't have the time.

I'm thinking of doing some local open mics in the future, but I need to brush up my piano and/or guitar skills before I do that.



Lila said:


> @FeministInPink WOW lady! You have some serious skills as a singer and performer. Ever tried performing in local theater/musicals?


I did a lot of theater when I was younger, but didn't do any shows since college, up until 3 yrs ago, when I was in a local production of Once Upon a Mattress. During that production, I realized that I didn't LOVE the whole process. You have to put in a lot of time doing chorus roles in shows to earn a reputation that will eventually get you cast in larger roles/leads, and I don't want to put all my free time into that. You do a show, and it literally eats up ALL your free time for a 2-3 month span, and I'm not willing to do that for chorus roles. If I got a lead, it would be worth it. But outside of that, I have other creative pursuits that I want to dedicate my time to.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> There has to be a business reason to go to Portland :scratchhead:


Yes, there’s an emergency TAM conference your presence is required at. :smile2:


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, there’s an emergency TAM conference your presence is required at. :smile2:


An emergency? Well if TAM needs me I think I'd better go. It should be a conference for two though....no need to invite anyone else :rofl:


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## Andy1001

FeministInPink said:


> I'm SO glad I got it on video. It was an amazing experience. After we left, we got turned around trying to find our car, and ended up walking back towards the theatre... we were stopped by a couple people who recognized me and wanted to tell me how much they enjoyed it, which was definitely an ego boost.
> 
> A sign that Real Estate isn't a good fit for me: he made a comment that I was a good singer, but I wasn't great. He didn't fully appreciate my vocal skills.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You have a great voice,it reminds me of Janis Joplin in her heyday.


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> A sign that Real Estate isn't a good fit for me: he made a comment that I was a good singer, but I wasn't great. He didn't fully appreciate my vocal skills.


What the hell??? He actually made the point to say you were good but not great? 

First of all, Simon Cowell wouldn’t even say that to you he would say you are great.

Second of all, since you are obviously GREAT, why would he try to minimize you that way?

Grrrr.....

Now I don’t like him :laugh:


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> An emergency? Well if TAM needs me I think I'd better go. It should be a conference for two though....no need to invite anyone else :rofl:


Yes I forgot to say it is a super secret meeting, shhhhhh! No one is invited unless they meet certain parameters :grin2:


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## Hope Shimmers

Haven't been on in awhile. Just got out of the hospital - about 2 weeks. Went in because I was throwing up blood for about 48 hours.

Turns out that I have liver damage. I had hepatitis C (probably a needlestick years ago) and although it was treated about three years ago and I no longer have it, it caused substantial liver damage while dormant all those years when I didn't know I had it. So now it is progressing, and the outlook is not good.

I will tell you one thing... when something like this happens, you learn who your true friends are.

I reached out to my ex last night because he said he would always care and always be a loving friend. Truth is, all he cared about was himself. He did not even reply. I do not understand how people can do that kind of thing and live with themselves. Bottom line is that I was lied to for lots of years and none of it was the truth. To say it hurts is an understatement. But at least I know it was all a lie.

I hope that all is well. Having just moved, I don't have a lot of friends yet in my current state of residence, but I'm going to change that. I do believe that most people are not like the above.


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## sunsetmist

Sorry about your serious illness and lack of support. Will keep you in my prayers.


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## 3Xnocharm

Hope, I am sorry to read of your diagnosis. Hopefully now that its been caught it can be treated. 

And I for one am NOT surprised about your ex's non response, sad to say. I hope you have family you can look to for support.


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## Ynot

Hope, that sucks. But let it remind you that life is short. So stop thinking about your ex and go forth with your plan to make new friends!


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## FeministInPink

Andy1001 said:


> You have a great voice,it reminds me of Janis Joplin in her heyday.


Thank you 

I haven't done any Janis Joplin songs at karaoke yet, simply because I don't know any well enough to sing them. But I have a couple of her songs on my list of "to-learn songs."

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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> What the hell??? He actually made the point to say you were good but not great?
> 
> First of all, Simon Cowell wouldn’t even say that to you he would say you are great.
> 
> Second of all, since you are obviously GREAT, why would he try to minimize you that way?
> 
> Grrrr.....
> 
> Now I don’t like him


RIGHT?!?

He did say that before he saw/heard me do this one... he might not say the same thing now.

I feel like a good partner would be supportive and brag about this. A good friend of mine, whom I do karaoke with, whenever he introduces me to someone else, always adds, "and you should hear her sing, she's amazing!!!"

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## FeministInPink

Hope, I am so sorry to hear about this! I am glad that they found it, though, and there is treatment for this sort of thing. If it reaches the point where you need a transplant, this is one of the few organs where it is possible to use tissue from a living donor. So I'm sure there are options for you.

It sucks that the ex, who claimed to care deeply for you, could not be bothered to respond. Just proves he's a trash person.

Know that all of us here care, and we'll offer support in any way we can.

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## Hope Shimmers

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate it.

I do strongly believe that this is how you find out who your real friends are. I've learned some interesting things about that over the last several months.

I have to go back and read about this singing thing, FIP. I'm behind!


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> What the hell??? He actually made the point to say you were good but not great?
> 
> First of all, Simon Cowell wouldn’t even say that to you he would say you are great.
> 
> Second of all, since you are obviously GREAT, why would he try to minimize you that way?
> 
> Grrrr.....
> 
> Now I don’t like him :laugh:


PS the funny thing is, I auditioned for American Idol back in the day, and I didn't even make it past the first round. I think I made a poor song choice--I chose a song that was difficult to sing, so while it showed off my technical ability, it didn't demonstrate my range or ability to kill it 

The judge was very kind to me (but quite brutal with the other people in my audition group). He said I had a beautiful voice, he enjoyed my audition, and that he would love to have me sing him to sleep every night, but I wasn't American Idol quality.


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## Lila

@Hope Shimmers I am so sorry to hear about your health problems. Your ex sounds like an ******* but I am hopeful the doctors will be able to help you.


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## Lila

Anyone else watch Frankie and Grace on Netflix?

I cannot get enough of this show. I binge it whenever I'm emotionally flooding. It's such a great show. Even though I'm not in the same age brackets as the characters, I can so relate to their struggles after the end of a long marriage.


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## Idyit

Lila said:


> Anyone else watch Frankie and Grace on Netflix?
> 
> I cannot get enough of this show. I binge it whenever I'm emotionally flooding. It's such a great show. Even though I'm not in the same age brackets as the characters, I can so relate to their struggles after the end of a long marriage.


Hello Lila. Your post mirrors what I mentioned in my first posts on this thread. What does emotional flooding look like for you? More direct what is the cause? 

I'm asking because I wonder if I'm weird for not missing her at all. Maybe the nature of how it ended or why?

<--- Havent watched Frankie and Grace


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## Lila

Idyit said:


> Hello Lila. Your post mirrors what I mentioned in my first posts on this thread. What does emotional flooding look like for you? More direct what is the cause?
> 
> I'm asking because I wonder if I'm weird for not missing her at all. Maybe the nature of how it ended or why?


Hi @Idyit. Long time no talk. 😊

The emotional flooding for me is an overwhelming wave of emotions, in my case sadness, that usually happen when triggered by a memory. Photos and songs are big triggers for me. 

In my case my marriage has come to an end rather suddenly and unexpectedly. My STBX told me he was done in August, moved out 5 days later, and our divorce will be final next week. I have essentially been trying to figure out my new life and playing catch up the last 3 months. Add to it that i have been doing so alone as I don't have family nearby. 

Due to circumstances, the adjustment curve has been steep. I think the emotional flooding episodes are my mind's way of decompressing. My emotions are like a volcano - dormant for a long time building up pressure, then they erupt for a short but turbulent period, then go dormant again. The process repeated often at the beginning but has slowed down significantly. It still happens pretty regularly though and will probably continue for a long time. 

I think I still have these emotional flooding episodes because I do still love my STBX. I didn't want the divorce and I wish he would not have given up on the marriage, especially not for reasons like "we drifted apart" and "we have nothing in common". I still dwell on the shoulda, coulda, wouldas and occasionally get stuck in the rumminating. It's something that'll take time to get over I'm sure. 

I think if you are done and were the one to choose divorce then you've probably done all of your emotional processing over a period of years. 




> <--- Havent watched Frankie and Grace


I think it's targeted more to women but definitely worth a peek.


----------



## Idyit

@Lila Thank you. 

Your explanation made me sad. For you. An abrupt end to a marriage you still wanted sounds like a punch in the gut...and face. Was this a walkaway husband type of thing? Anyway, your explanation makes complete sense. Wish there was some sage advice or something to give but newbie to newbie doesn't work well. 

My marriage dissolved over a long period of time. Bit by bit I let go, kind of mourning the way you are now. Makes sense too that I don't miss her at all. Gives me some peace that I'm not a coldhearted jerk.
I have been told to not sit around and let the blues marinate, get out, meet people and engage the next phase of my life. So far so good.

And just for the fun of it... I travel all over the western US for work. It would be fun to meet any of the TAM folks (M or F) if I happen to be in your neck of the woods. Except @Faithful Wife, she scares me... JK


----------



## Faithful Wife

Idyit said:


> And just for the fun of it... I travel all over the western US for work. It would be fun to meet any of the TAM folks (M or F) if I happen to be in your neck of the woods. Except @Faithful Wife, she scares me... JK


It's alright, I'm used to being scary. :laugh:


----------



## Lila

Idyit said:


> @Lila Thank you.
> 
> Your explanation made me sad. For you. An abrupt end to a marriage you still wanted sounds like a punch in the gut...and face. Was this a walkaway husband type of thing? Anyway, your explanation makes complete sense. Wish there was some sage advice or something to give but newbie to newbie doesn't work well.


It was a walkaway husband but with and added twist. If I take him at his word then he couldn't communicate his feelings to save his life or our marriage. He literally admits fault with the failure of the marriage due to his inability to communicate even given a venue to do so (2 marriage counselors in 3 years - never said a word about his unhappiness).

But don't feel sad for me. As the saying goes, if it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger. I am going to come out of this stronger than the hulk 



Idyit said:


> My marriage dissolved over a long period of time. Bit by bit I let go, kind of mourning the way you are now. Makes sense too that I don't miss her at all. Gives me some peace that I'm not a coldhearted jerk.
> I have been told to not sit around and let the blues marinate, get out, meet people and engage the next phase of my life. So far so good.
> 
> And just for the fun of it... I travel all over the western US for work. It would be fun to meet any of the TAM folks (M or F) if I happen to be in your neck of the woods. Except @Faithful Wife, she scares me... JK


No not a coldhearted jerk at all. You've just had more time to disconnect. 

You definitely have the right idea to get out and not let the ruminating overwhelm you. It's time to start a new chapter in your life. Make the most of it.

Hit me up if you ever find yourself in SE US. At the very least, I'm good for a drink and a laugh


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> Hi @Idyit. Long time no talk. 😊
> 
> The emotional flooding for me is an overwhelming wave of emotions, in my case sadness, that usually happen when triggered by a memory. Photos and songs are big triggers for me.
> 
> In my case my marriage has come to an end rather suddenly and unexpectedly. My STBX told me he was done in August, moved out 5 days later, and our divorce will be final next week. I have essentially been trying to figure out my new life and playing catch up the last 3 months. Add to it that i have been doing so alone as I don't have family nearby.
> 
> Due to circumstances, the adjustment curve has been steep. I think the emotional flooding episodes are my mind's way of decompressing. My emotions are like a volcano - dormant for a long time building up pressure, then they erupt for a short but turbulent period, then go dormant again. The process repeated often at the beginning but has slowed down significantly. It still happens pretty regularly though and will probably continue for a long time.
> 
> I think I still have these emotional flooding episodes because I do still love my STBX. I didn't want the divorce and I wish he would not have given up on the marriage, especially not for reasons like "we drifted apart" and "we have nothing in common". I still dwell on the shoulda, coulda, wouldas and occasionally get stuck in the rumminating. It's something that'll take time to get over I'm sure.
> 
> I think if you are done and were the one to choose divorce then you've probably done all of your emotional processing over a period of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's targeted more to women but definitely worth a peek.


Sorry Lila.


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> Which part, the costume or the singing?
> 
> ETA: And thanks for the compliment. People tell me I'm brave or strong all the time, but I don't feel particularly brave or strong. I frequently feel the exact opposite, actually.


Stumbled here by accident and glad I did!

Great costume!

Is there a recording of you singing?


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> Stumbled here by accident and glad I did!
> 
> Great costume!
> 
> Is there a recording of you singing?


Not in costume, unfortunately. A friend took photos, but no video. I did link to a different video of me singing, and on that (my) YouTube channel, there are several other videos of me singing. The other videos are several years old... the one I posted here is the only recent one.


----------



## ConanHub

Elizabeth001 said:


> I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t share the majority of my core values. Political views most often hold hands with them.
> 
> FW...I get it sister
> 
> ETA: kudos to you for having the patience to try and keep explaining. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just to illustrate that this is definitely not always the case.... I am a very moderate conservative with a lot of liberal view points and Mrs. Conan is a very conservative right wing antifeminist staunch traditional values gal. We clash on many issues, political and otherwise but work pretty well as a couple.

Neither of us are racist, I'm actually part of a multi ethnic family, and I have no imaginary phobia about decisions concerning sex partners.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I have what is certainly the most exciting first date ever in my life tonight! It’s almost too exciting, like can this be real? I don’t want to jinx anything, so I won’t share any details just yet. But if the date goes even half as well as I had hoped, it will be one for the Big Coffee Table Book of Most Epic First Dates in History.


----------



## Ynot

ConanHub said:


> Just to illustrate that this is definitely not always the case.... I am a very moderate conservative with a lot of liberal view points and Mrs. Conan is a very conservative right wing antifeminist staunch traditional values gal. We clash on many issues, political and otherwise but work pretty well as a couple.
> 
> Neither of us are racist, I'm actually part of a multi ethnic family, and I have no imaginary phobia about decisions concerning sex partners.


I am not sure how this illustrates the point you are trying to make. Both of you self identify as "conservatives". You might have a point if one of you were a card carrying liberal, who worships Gaia, strongly support global warming and invests in carbon credits, thinks Hillary walks on water and believes in open borders and the other one of you were a dyed in the wool "conservative" who takes the Bible literally, accepts Jesus as your lord and savior, thinks global warming is a scam, imagines Trump is one of your own and wants to build a wall. Otherwise it seems like minor issues of no real concern.


----------



## ConanHub

Ynot said:


> I am not sure how this illustrates the point you are trying to make. Both of you self identify as "conservatives". You might have a point if one of you were a card carrying liberal, who worships Gaia, strongly support global warming and invests in carbon credits, thinks Hillary walks on water and believes in open borders and the other one of you were a dyed in the wool "conservative" who takes the Bible literally, accepts Jesus as your lord and savior, thinks global warming is a scam, imagines Trump is one of your own and wants to build a wall. Otherwise it seems like minor issues of no real concern.


There are many degrees of differences between some couples and some abide more than others.

My point is that it isn't an insurmountable obstacle by any means.

I'm also very compatible with many women who are opposite spectrum from Mrs. Conan.

Two people, who want to work together, will figure it out.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ConanHub said:


> There are many degrees of differences between some couples and some abide more than others.
> 
> My point is that it isn't an insurmountable obstacle by any means.
> 
> I'm also very compatible with many women who are opposite spectrum from Mrs. Conan.
> 
> Two people, who want to work together, will figure it out.


While it may be true that two people who want to work together will figure it out, that doesn’t mean that all people who would be willing to work it out with you is a good potential partner. The ability to overcome problems and differences is an entirely different topic. 

Your wife does not worship Satan or think that cheaters should be celebrated. She does not think “childhood abuse is not that big of a deal and people who perpetrate crimes against children should just be forgiven and rehabilitated”. In other words, her beliefs and values are not diametrically opposed to yours. 

You aren’t comparing apples to apples. You are describing the lovely same values you SHARE with your wife, while also mentioning that there are a “few areas” where you differ in opinions. Then you are trying to make it sound like this is a superior tactic to take than the one I have been taking, which is to deliberately avoid people who I am diametrically opposed values wise with.

I don’t care what you say, if your wife had diametrically opposed values or undesirable characteristics which made you want to flee, you would have fled just like you did from many other women in the past.

You get to decide what those opposite values are for YOU. And you used your good judgment in picking a woman.

I know that for ME I have to use MY parameters to judge what opposite values I may or may not be a match with.

It’s honestly weird to me that you seem to be saying that your way is somehow superior because it’s more “evolved” or something. Show me how evolved you are going to be if your wife suddenly decides she wants to be a swinger.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I have what is certainly the most exciting first date ever in my life tonight! It’s almost too exciting, like can this be real? I don’t want to jinx anything, so I won’t share any details just yet. But if the date goes even half as well as I had hoped, it will be one for the Big Coffee Table Book of Most Epic First Dates in History.


Fingers crossed for you @faithfulwife :wink2:


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> I have what is certainly the most exciting first date ever in my life tonight! It’s almost too exciting, like can this be real? I don’t want to jinx anything, so I won’t share any details just yet. But if the date goes even half as well as I had hoped, it will be one for the Big Coffee Table Book of Most Epic First Dates in History.


Looking forward to hearing an update!


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> While it may be true that two people who want to work together will figure it out, that doesn’t mean that all people who would be willing to work it out with you is a good potential partner. The ability to overcome problems and differences is an entirely different topic.
> 
> Your wife does not worship Satan or think that cheaters should be celebrated. She does not think “childhood abuse is not that big of a deal and people who perpetrate crimes against children should just be forgiven and rehabilitated”. In other words, her beliefs and values are not diametrically opposed to yours.
> 
> You aren’t comparing apples to apples. You are describing the lovely same values you SHARE with your wife, while also mentioning that there are a “few areas” where you differ in opinions. Then you are trying to make it sound like this is a superior tactic to take than the one I have been taking, which is to deliberately avoid people who I am diametrically opposed values wise with.
> 
> I don’t care what you say, if your wife had diametrically opposed values or undesirable characteristics which made you want to flee, you would have fled just like you did from many other women in the past.
> 
> You get to decide what those opposite values are for YOU. And you used your good judgment in picking a woman.
> 
> I know that for ME I have to use MY parameters to judge what opposite values I may or may not be a match with.
> 
> It’s honestly weird to me that you seem to be saying that your way is somehow superior because it’s more “evolved” or something. Show me how evolved you are going to be if your wife suddenly decides she wants to be a swinger.


Quit weirding out.

I would hope no one is agreeable towards child abuse.

The examples above are cartoonish compared with what was being discussed.

Were you really feeling it necessary to say you were not compatible with child abusers, swingers or human blood drinkers.

You were referring to far more mundane differences until I posted.

Seriously.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ConanHub said:


> Quit weirding out.
> 
> I would hope no one is agreeable towards child abuse.
> 
> The examples above are cartoonish compared with what was being discussed.
> 
> Were you really feeling it necessary to say you were not compatible with child abusers, swingers or human blood drinkers.
> 
> You were referring to far more mundane differences until I posted.
> 
> Seriously.


Conan - I’m comparing for you the diametrically opposed values to your values which you would make choices about.

For me, swingers would not necessarily be out. Neither would any religious affiliation I can think of. Those two things (sorry about the other exaggerated examples) are things you would count as out, but I would not.

Do you see my point now, less weirded out version?

For you, those are vastly important things to you. 

For me, they are not.

For you, a difference in some political views is acceptable.

For me, difference is acceptable but I have a hard limit on Trump voters the same way you probably have one on swingers (though I am speculating and perhaps you don’t actually have a hard limit on swingers, but I know you have a hard limit about your wife in particular becoming one).


----------



## Hope Shimmers

ReformedHubby said:


> Fingers crossed for you @faithfulwife :wink2:


faithfulwife -- I truly hope you two have a wonderful time.


----------



## Red Sonja

ConanHub said:


> Quit weirding out.
> 
> I would hope no one is agreeable towards child abuse.
> 
> *The examples above are cartoonish compared with what was being discussed.
> 
> Were you really feeling it necessary to say you were not compatible with child abusers, swingers or human blood drinkers.*
> 
> You were referring to far more mundane differences until I posted.
> 
> Seriously.


Yup, classic straw-man argument ... UFB.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

3Xnocharm said:


> Hope, I am sorry to read of your diagnosis. Hopefully now that its been caught it can be treated.
> 
> And I for one am NOT surprised about your ex's non response, sad to say. I hope you have family you can look to for support.


Same here. Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, and please call some friends or family for support. Your local church or community organization may have some options to talk as well. Just not your ex. He’s an ex for a reason, and no I don’t think it makes him a bad person or a jerk for not picking up the phone when HIS EX calls him out of the blue. I certainly wouldn’t. Not my job anymore. 

Sorry if that sounds harsh.


----------



## ConanHub

Red Sonja said:


> Yup, classic straw-man argument ... UFB.


Yeah. I'm done with it.

If they were claiming that they were having insurmountable differences that were too much to overcome to date child abusing blood drinking swingers, I would heartily agree.

So bad on me for not discerning that only satanic swingers should date other satanic swingers was the actual content of the discussion instead of political or idealistic differences.

I guess I agree after all.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. I'm done with it.
> 
> If they were claiming that they were having insurmountable differences that were too much to overcome to date child abusing blood drinking swingers, I would heartily agree.
> 
> So bad on me for not discerning that only satanic swingers should date other satanic swingers was the actual content of the discussion instead of political or idealistic differences.
> 
> I guess I agree after all.


I would absolutely date a satanic swinger before I’d date a Trump voter.


----------



## sunsetmist

Faithful Wife said:


> I have what is certainly the most exciting first date ever in my life tonight! It’s almost too exciting, like can this be real? I don’t want to jinx anything, so I won’t share any details just yet. But if the date goes even half as well as I had hoped, it will be one for the Big Coffee Table Book of Most Epic First Dates in History.


So, How was your date? Hard to live up to the build-up I expect. For all we know, your are still on the date!


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Looking forward to hearing an update!


Very brief update....

Date was wonderful and fun but very short. We have another date today.

Still most epic date ever for many reasons and it’s not even over yet. 

He is tall dark and handsome....younger than me (which I didn’t know or had forgotten)...and really, really sexy. He is funny and smart and fun. We have things in common that I don’t have with most people.

More updates to follow after today’s date. :grin2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

sunsetmist said:


> So, How was your date? Hard to live up to the build-up I expect. For all we know, your are still on the date!


Just now posted one! No, not still there. He is a gentleman.


----------



## RandomDude

So... in other news, how was the date FW?

I'm still with my category five sweetheart, it's been eight months so far and we're only falling more in love with each other. Friends are wondering why we are still in honeymoon stage. We're always together nowadays when we go out, she's always asking me if she's too clingy, but for some reason I don't need my space with her compared to how I was in the past, she just blends into my life like she's always meant to be, first woman to be able to just click like this with me, at this insane level. I have her friends and mother's approval so far, despite the odds.

My whole perspective on love and life has shifted completely it's strange.

EDIT: Oh wtf... someone beat me to asking you about your date lol - but wait, you are in one now? Quit texting and focus!  Tell us when you get home!


----------



## ReformedHubby

Happy that you're happy @RandomDude. 

Glad your date went well @faithfulwife. Even though I am currently in self imposed celibacy 0, I had a date last night too. It was also brief as most first dates usually are. Someone I've kind of known for a while. Not someone I ever expected to go on a date with but I kind of always wanted to. We had a great time also, felt like two old friends getting together...except....there was some tension there because well....she is sexy as hell >, but of course I am a gentleman. I do think we'll keep hanging out, time will tell...


----------



## 269370

ReformedHubby said:


> Happy that you're happy @RandomDude.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad your date went well @faithfulwife. Even though I am currently in self imposed celibacy 0, I had a date last night too. It was also brief as most first dates usually are. Someone I've kind of known for a while. Not someone I ever expected to go on a date with but I kind of always wanted to. We had a great time also, felt like two old friends getting together...except....there was some tension there because well....she is sexy as hell >, but of course I am a gentleman. I do think we'll keep hanging out, time will tell...



You guys/girls are so obvious 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hope Shimmers

TheGoodGuy said:


> Same here. Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, and please call some friends or family for support. Your local church or community organization may have some options to talk as well. Just not your ex. He’s an ex for a reason, and no I don’t think it makes him a bad person or a jerk for not picking up the phone when HIS EX calls him out of the blue. I certainly wouldn’t. Not my job anymore.
> 
> Sorry if that sounds harsh.


Are you sorry? Because it really doesn't sound like it.

Having said that, you are entitled to your opinion.

For some reason he expected ME to pick up the phone when HE called after we were 'exes'. And he remains friends with his exes - even went on a trip with one of them.

I'm not a shallow person (and I keep seeing this more and more with people I initially connect to). If I ever loved someone, I would go out of my way to help them when they needed it. And I have done so in the past. I guess that's just me, though. I'm okay with it now. I don't switch my friendships or caring off like a light switch like many men do. In my book that's called being shallow and I don't need or want it.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I would absolutely date a satanic swinger before I’d date a Trump voter.


The question now becomes - is there really any difference between the two?


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> The question now becomes - is there really any difference between the two?


Not sure many Dear Leader voters are into swinging...


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> Not sure many Dear Leader voters are into swinging...


Perhaps not sexually but definitely on principles. That guy is as far from being a "conservative" as Hillary was.


----------



## 269370

Oh good. Politics now for singles too...
Really, who cares if political views diverge or not? What does it have to do whether people can love each other? 
“Oh you don’t agree with all of MY views? I will ignore you then!” Can it get more kindergarden and intolerant than that, for a political stance that promotes liberalism, equality and free thinking? No one else sees any ironies in this?
There are these constant internal logical inconsistencies on the far left that would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Epic date part 2...We had a day date today. Took him to my favorite breakfast place to impress him with the uncommonly good food we have here. Then drove all over the city to just give him a feel for it. Thankfully it was sunny and not raining! It’s so dreary and depressing when it’s raining, which is most of the time. You can’t see Mt. Hood and Mt. Saint Helens when it is raining but you see them clearly when it’s not, so he got to see both of them.

It was great! He’s funny and great company and again...so sexy! Fun chauffeuring around such a sexy passenger. 

He has beautiful clothes (casual) which are probably normal to him but you can’t buy fine ass threads like that out here, so I love them. (I know he has awesome non casual clothes too but only needed casual on this trip).

I took him back to his hotel and we talked some more. Then I left to come home for a few hours. Soon I’m going back to pick him up and we go for part 3 of the date, dinner!

I wanted to wear a sexy dress but it’s cold as F so.....looks like jeans it is. Dang.


----------



## FeministInPink

What's with all the married people posting in the Singles thread recently?


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> What's with all the married people posting in the Singles thread recently?


They like to come tell us we are wrong about our dating choices/styles/preferences. 

Because we really need and want their thoughts on who they would date as it is so relevant to this discussion. And if we aren’t doing it the way they would then we are intolerant.


----------



## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> What's with all the married people posting in the Singles thread recently?


Jealousy?


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Jealousy?


Ha ha ha 

I don't think Conan is jealous. He seems to be pretty happy with his marriage.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> Jealousy?


And occasional stalking.


----------



## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> Amazingly enough, the "conservatives" who claim to be for personal responsibility and freedom only support that as long as you comply with their ideas of personal responsibility and exercise your freedom in ways that they agree with. IOW it is a two way street.


This is hardly true for all "conservatives". I am a die-hard libertarian (which many confuse with conservatism) and frankly IDGAF how others choose to conduct their lives ... as long as they are not hurting others (not talking hurt feelings here). I even believe they are free to hurt themselves if they are so inclined.

I usually don't mind engaging if others want to discuss these subjects and if they are interested in _civil_ discussions. I consider such discussions to be an exchange of ideas rather than some type of "combat" and, I am never inclined to change anyone's mind. The problem is that most people are not capable of engaging in civil discussions of this type without going "off the rails"; that would include liberals, conservatives and all other "flavors" of persons.


----------



## john117

FeministInPink said:


> What's with all the married people posting in the Singles thread recently?


Practice.

March is coming.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Faithful Wife said:


> He has beautiful clothes (casual) which are probably normal to him but you can’t buy fine ass threads like that out here, so I love them.


Do you live in the boonies somewhere?



Faithful Wife said:


> wanted to wear a sexy dress but it’s cold as F so.....looks like jeans it is. Dang.


Jeans?

Ain't NO weather too cold for a sexy dress and heels.

As for married versus single members posting here, last time I checked there was no rule either way. Perhaps being less caustic to everyone would benefit all of us. 

To all: Thanks to the vast majority of you for being such good friends. I'm off to Worcester MA tomorrow (spending some time with an old ex-boyfriend, totally platonically, who has become one of my best friends), then to the DC area for a medical conference for a few days. Originally had plans to meet a forum member who I know lives in the DC area, but that didn't work out since the person is being shallow. :rofl: Lots of great single people in that area, both men and women, last time I checked, so I can't wait. REAL gentlemen.

Hope everyone has a good holiday season and a terrific New Year! Thanks again ~


----------



## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> This is hardly true for all "conservatives". I am a die-hard libertarian (which many confuse with conservatism) and frankly IDGAF how others choose to conduct their lives ... as long as they are not hurting others (not talking hurt feelings here). I even believe they are free to hurt themselves if they are so inclined.
> 
> I usually don't mind engaging if others want to discuss these subjects and if they are interested in _civil_ discussions. I consider such discussions to be an exchange of ideas rather than some type of "combat" and, I am never inclined to change anyone's mind. The problem is that most people are not capable of engaging in civil discussions of this type without going "off the rails"; that would include liberals, conservatives and all other "flavors" of persons.


I am very much a libertarian myself, But when some one comes along and tries to make the case that the "far left" is this or that, I like to point out the far right is just as bad. Also please notice I placed the term conservative in quotation marks, because the reality is that they are anything but conservative.


----------



## honcho

Hope Shimmers said:


> Do you live in the boonies somewhere?
> 
> 
> 
> Jeans?
> 
> Ain't NO weather too cold for a sexy dress and heels.


I know a woman who's a fwb more than anything. After a couple of days we drive each other nuts, but those couple of days, it's bedroom Olympic's haha! 

Anyway she lives across the country in a hot climate, couple years ago she was flying into chicago so we meet, she's wearing the shortest short dress she could find and killer heels.....only problem it's 10 below zero and the wind is howling. I've never seen anyone turn into a popsicle as fast as she did walking out of the airport haha!


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> I am very much a libertarian myself, But when some one comes along and tries to make the case that the "far left" is this or that, I like to point out the far right is just as bad. Also please notice I placed the term conservative in quotation marks, because the reality is that they are anything but conservative.


Trump was a Democrat.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

honcho said:


> I know a woman who's a fwb more than anything. After a couple of days we drive each other nuts, but those couple of days, it's bedroom Olympic's haha!
> 
> Anyway she lives across the country in a hot climate, couple years ago she was flying into chicago so we meet, she's wearing the shortest short dress she could find and killer heels.....only problem it's 10 below zero and the wind is howling. I've never seen anyone turn into a popsicle as fast as she did walking out of the airport haha!


That's hilarious!

I have had this Little Black Dress that's made of this expensive knit material that pops back into place no matter what I do with it. I can literally squish the whole dress in my fist before putting it on and it comes out looking perfect, like a dream. I take it every trip I go, lol

The cold, for me, is mind over matter. I can deal


----------



## Faithful Wife

Red Sonja said:


> This is hardly true for all "conservatives". I am a die-hard libertarian (which many confuse with conservatism) and frankly IDGAF how others choose to conduct their lives ... as long as they are not hurting others (not talking hurt feelings here). I even believe they are free to hurt themselves if they are so inclined.
> 
> I usually don't mind engaging if others want to discuss these subjects and if they are interested in _civil_ discussions. I consider such discussions to be an exchange of ideas rather than some type of "combat" and, I am never inclined to change anyone's mind. The problem is that most people are not capable of engaging in civil discussions of this type without going "off the rails"; that would include liberals, conservatives and all other "flavors" of persons.


Well except I don’t see how you have tried to have any kind of civil discussion with me. You’ve just said the way I do things is wrong in your opinion and you have implied the way you do things is better. 

At no time do I ever say your way is wrong (for you) or my way is right (for you).

Yet you come back and tell me 8 more times that my way is wrong, and again, I do not tell you that your way is wrong or try to say you should do anything my way.

Round and round. I’m wrong, you are right.

How is that civil discussion? Keeping in mind, I am never discussing what anyone else should do in their dating life, I’m just talking about my preferences.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Epic date update part 3....

I’m smitten and hope to see him again. I’m pretty sure I will. 

We had some sweet kisses and snuggles at the end of a great dinner date. Just the perfect amount! I kept joking him about getting his consent for more. It was fun. But it couldn’t go further tonight. (Not easy to resist, but had to).

I feel so happy and light tonight and will sleep like the dead. :grin2:


----------



## Red Sonja

Faithful Wife said:


> Well except I don’t see how you have tried to have any kind of civil discussion with me. You’ve just said the way I do things is wrong in your opinion and you have implied the way you do things is better.
> 
> At no time do I ever say your way is wrong (for you) or my way is right (for you).
> 
> Yet you come back and tell me 8 more times that my way is wrong, and again, I do not tell you that your way is wrong or try to say you should do anything my way.
> 
> Round and round. I’m wrong, you are right.
> 
> How is that civil discussion? Keeping in mind, I am never discussing what anyone else should do in their dating life, I’m just talking about my preferences.


Not even close. All I did was ask you why you thought the way you did in the (previous) discussion about not dating others because of political beliefs. My question was asked to gain understanding because the concept is foreign to me.

Your above statement is part of what I mean by these discussions "going off the rails" ... you put words in my mouth that were never spoken.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Faithful Wife said:


> Well except I don’t see how you have tried to have any kind of civil discussion with me. You’ve just said the way I do things is wrong in your opinion and you have implied the way you do things is better.
> 
> At no time do I ever say your way is wrong (for you) or my way is right (for you).
> 
> Yet you come back and tell me 8 more times that my way is wrong, and again, I do not tell you that your way is wrong or try to say you should do anything my way.
> 
> Round and round. I’m wrong, you are right.
> 
> How is that civil discussion? Keeping in mind, I am never discussing what anyone else should do in their dating life, I’m just talking about my preferences.


Good GOD! WTF is WRONG with you?

Can't you just let people BE? Who CARES if people think "your way" -- whatever that means -- is wrong! 

Just do your own thing, be secure in it already, and stop fighting everyone who disagrees with you. And Stop the caustic posts!

Jeez.

You can have ReformedHubby. I want nothing to do with him. A 'gentleman' doesn't cheat on his wife multiple times or his girlfriend multiple times too. Wake UP.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Message*

There is a politics section for a reason. Please keep all political content there.

Also, people who insult other members are on notice.


----------



## FeministInPink

MattMatt said:


> *Moderator Message*
> 
> There is a politics section for a reason. Please keep all political content there.
> 
> Also, people who insult other members are on notice.


THANK YOU!!!

I avoid the politics section because I don't enjoy talking about it, and I was unhappy that it invaded the fun Singles thread. It makes the Singles thread less fun.


----------



## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> THANK YOU!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I avoid the politics section because I don't enjoy talking about it, and I was unhappy that it invaded the fun Singles thread. It makes the Singles thread less fun.



I agree. Discussions about politics themselves don’t belong here.
Where can one inquire regarding the attitude towards using TAM as a dating site? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

MattMatt said:


> *Moderator Message*
> 
> There is a politics section for a reason. Please keep all political content there.
> 
> Also, people who insult other members are on notice.


Any chance we could also ask married folks to not thread jack the single folks, since this is the singles thread after all? The topic is single people dating and their adventures, right? Not to discuss what married think single people should or shouldn’t do and then judge and insult us.


----------



## hope4family

Well, now that this is a single thread. 

Up to date 5 now with one girl. Last woman standing I guess. Not sure if that means relationship. Her Mom got diagnosed with cancer a few weeks ago. I don't like pushing for a relationship with these sorts of events happening in a life, we already feel kinship though. It's on pause, continuing to get to know each other. Currently we will see each other Thursday. 

Life is a marathon, not a sprint. I am keeping my eyes open should someone new come into it. For now, considering what's happening we are both pretty cool with each other which is a nice start.


----------



## wilson

Faithful Wife said:


> Any chance we could also ask married folks to not thread jack the single folks, since this is the singles thread after all? The topic is single people dating and their adventures, right? Not to discuss what married think single people should or shouldn’t do and then judge and insult us.


Should this be more of a blanket statement for the whole board? I can see your point, but what about single people giving advice for married people in the other areas of the board? For many of those threads, I feel similar to what you're saying. If someone is single or only in a short marriage, do they really have the the right advice for the problems someone is facing in a multi-decades long marriage?


----------



## Faithful Wife

wilson said:


> Should this be more of a blanket statement for the whole board? I can see your point, but what about single people giving advice for married people in the other areas of the board? For many of those threads, I feel similar to what you're saying. If someone is single or only in a short marriage, do they really have the the right advice for the problems someone is facing in a multi-decades long marriage?


Well does the other poster cause a thread jack or not? That’s all I’m objecting to. I enjoy hearing married people’s anecdotes and history and opinions. But it’s pretty obvious when someone doesn’t have anything relevant to add and they simply want insult us (or frequently, just me), which is a thread jack.


----------



## 269370

A difference of opinion is not the same as an insult nor does it give the argument more weight calling it a T/J. Let’s not redefine words. Name calling is an insult for example.
I propose the thread gets back to its topic before mods lock it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> Well, now that this is a single thread.
> 
> Up to date 5 now with one girl. Last woman standing I guess. Not sure if that means relationship. Her Mom got diagnosed with cancer a few weeks ago. I don't like pushing for a relationship with these sorts of events happening in a life, we already feel kinship though. It's on pause, continuing to get to know each other. Currently we will see each other Thursday.
> 
> Life is a marathon, not a sprint. I am keeping my eyes open should someone new come into it. For now, considering what's happening we are both pretty cool with each other which is a nice start.


Have you stopped talking to and dating the other 2 you had in the ho-tation? :laugh:

I’ve found that when significant life things like a death come up in the beginning of a relationship, sometimes that actually helps form a bond. When you see how someone treats you during a crisis (even someone you just met), it can make your feelings for them be much deeper.

When my ex and I were first dating, a good friend of his died unexpectedly. I had met the friend once and was shocked and saddened by the news. I offered to go to the funeral to support my ex who at that time wasn’t even a full boyfriend yet. I just knew he did not have anyone to lean on at that time. I thought of it more like something I’d do for a friend, not a romantic gesture.

It turned out that we both were swept away by the grief and emotions of the funeral, and we both sobbed and held each other’s hand the whole time. I had lost my father a few years earlier and his funeral was still with me. But also hearing this man’s young wife and children speak at his funeral so bravely and lovingly...it killed me.

We had lunch after that, and just sat and remained in that highly emotion state for some time, and we talked about what is important in life and how it is fleeting and what we are most grateful for. It helped us see each other’s core very transparently in a brief window of openness. Normally such topics would not have been discussed except over time as we got to know each other.

That glimpse we had into each other showed us what we were made of in a fascinating way.

Anyway, of course being open to other things coming along is best. But if you like this one I have a feeling she’s feeling it too and will be settled soon.


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> Any chance we could also ask married folks to not thread jack the single folks, since this is the singles thread after all? The topic is single people dating and their adventures, right? Not to discuss what married think single people should or shouldn’t do and then judge and insult us.


That also bothered me. Not that they aren't allowed commenting in discussion. Hence, I am going to touch on something touchy. 

Dating, is fun, but also rough. One of the females i'm currently seeing dated a guy for months. Then when he asked her opinion on a "mandatory" thing for him. They had to break up as it was a deal breaker. 

So I have coined a phrase in my own mind, "let's play the game deal breakers" and see where we stand on key issues. If we touch something touchy. We agree we haven't waisted each others time beyond this and hopefully finish on good terms.

This concept, might be hard to reach when you are in a monogamous marriage for x number of years. It might also be hard to reach if you are really rooted and grounded in an echo chamber of thought on what is right or wrong.

Frankly, I can't go person to person hitting all the things I don't like and end it on a judging note, I would only become more jaded. It's a deal breaker. How I choose to handle that deal breaker is up to me, and I would like to say that we are just not compatible, so let's find someone who is with a warm smile on my face and the best wishes to you and your personal journey. 

I married someone who ticked a whole lot of similar value boxes and similar interests. Not a single deal breaker on the list. Still cheated. Lesson learned? Compatibility doesn't equate to marital success. Integrity cannot be measured by ones proposed initial anecdotal perceptions of life and the world. Although, by base instinct we still want it to. 


Off the soap box.


----------



## ne9907

Good morning all~

I would like some input or advice please. First of all, let me start by saying I am sure I have PTSD from my previous marriage and am distrustful and jealous. 

My boyfriend has a lot of ex girlfriends, at least two of them have tried to reconnect with him. He also has an ex fiancee from 10 years ago, I will call her J, she is about 20 years older than boyfriend and me. J is now married to M. 
M is retired about 65 years old (J is about 63). 

Last saturday boyfriend and I were in my house just hanging out and having a pleasant evening together. 
He gets a FB messenger phone call from ex fiancee's FB. He does not answer, and goes to voice mail.

I go outside to smoke and he comes out too a bit later, says to me "hey NE, listen to this message"
The message was from J's husband and he said "listen mother****er you need to leave my wife alone or I will ****ing kill you"

I became a bit upset but waited for his explanation. Was a long night, boyfriend said he hasnt contacted J since May when J sent him a message because boyfriend's old dog died (she kept her).
In the messages she says she will help boyfriend find a new dog, a nice one, because boyfriend is special and deserves a special dog as well.

I saw the messages and did not see his reply if there was any. Boyfriend said that is only conversation they had. 
Anyway, boyfriend called her back to speak to him but no answer at all. 

Finally, boyfriend could not get a hold of him, but did speak with J. She apologized and said everything was a big misunderstanding. I saw the messages.


I am debating whether to contact J's husband and ask for explanation or not.
What are your thoughts?

Thank you


----------



## Faithful Wife

@hope4family Those are all excellent points. I recently learned that one of my deal breakers was in fact somewhat flexible for the right person. Namely, long distance relationships.


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> Good morning all~
> 
> I would like some input or advice please. First of all, let me start by saying I am sure I have PTSD from my previous marriage and am distrustful and jealous.
> 
> My boyfriend has a lot of ex girlfriends, at least two of them have tried to reconnect with him. He also has an ex fiancee from 10 years ago, I will call her J, she is about 20 years older than boyfriend and me. J is now married to M.
> M is retired about 65 years old (J is about 63).
> 
> Last saturday boyfriend and I were in my house just hanging out and having a pleasant evening together.
> He gets a FB messenger phone call from ex fiancee's FB. He does not answer, and goes to voice mail.
> 
> I go outside to smoke and he comes out too a bit later, says to me "hey NE, listen to this message"
> The message was from J's husband and he said "listen mother****er you need to leave my wife alone or I will ****ing kill you"
> 
> I became a bit upset but waited for his explanation. Was a long night, boyfriend said he hasnt contacted J since May when J sent him a message because boyfriend's old dog died (she kept her).
> In the messages she says she will help boyfriend find a new dog, a nice one, because boyfriend is special and deserves a special dog as well.
> 
> I saw the messages and did not see his reply if there was any. Boyfriend said that is only conversation they had.
> Anyway, boyfriend called her back to speak to him but no answer at all.
> 
> Finally, boyfriend could not get a hold of him, but did speak with J. She apologized and said everything was a big misunderstanding. I saw the messages.
> 
> 
> I am debating whether to contact J's husband and ask for explanation or not.
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> Thank you


Well, Ne... I think the fact that he is being transparent with all of this (without you having to pressure him for transparency) is a very good sign regarding his candidacy as a partner.

That being said, I do NOT think you should ask for an explanation from M. This is not your circus. It sounds to me like there is some turmoil in the J/M house, and somehow your BF got dragged into it, and not by his own accord. It sounds like J is trying to get back into BF's life by offering to get him a new dog. It would be my recommendation that BF decline the offer, and try to distance himself from the J/M situation as much as possible to avoid getting dragged into their drama.

BTW, who offers to get someone a new dog? That's weird.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Have you stopped talking to and dating the other 2 you had in the ho-tation?
> 
> I’ve found that when significant life things like a death come up in the beginning of a relationship, sometimes that actually helps form a bond. When you see how someone treats you during a crisis (even someone you just met), it can make your feelings for them be much deeper.
> 
> When my ex and I were first dating, a good friend of his died unexpectedly. I had met the friend once and was shocked and saddened by the news. I offered to go to the funeral to support my ex who at that time wasn’t even a full boyfriend yet. I just knew he did not have anyone to lean on at that time. I thought of it more like something I’d do for a friend, not a romantic gesture.
> 
> It turned out that we both were swept away by the grief and emotions of the funeral, and we both sobbed and held each other’s hand the whole time. I had lost my father a few years earlier and his funeral was still with me. But also hearing this man’s young wife and children speak at his funeral so bravely and lovingly...it killed me.
> 
> We had lunch after that, and just sat and remained in that highly emotion state for some time, and we talked about what is important in life and how it is fleeting and what we are most grateful for. It helped us see each other’s core very transparently in a brief window of openness. Normally such topics would not have been discussed except over time as we got to know each other.
> 
> That glimpse we had into each other showed us what we were made of in a fascinating way.
> 
> Anyway, of course being open to other things coming along is best. But if you like this one I have a feeling she’s feeling it too and will be settled soon.


While it is true that these experiences can accelerate bonding, I think it is also important to be wary of potentially bonding with someone you shouldn't bond with.

However, @hope4family I would still hope that you try to support her as much as possible but don't attempt to escalate the relationship at this time. Let her know that you are still into her and want to continue to see her, but you understand that your relationship is not her top priority at this time, and that your primary interest at present is to support her in whatever way she needs.

What she might need, in terms of support, is to spend some time with someone (you) who isn't also grieving, and who can help keep things light. Or she may need someone to vent to, and whose shoulder she can cry on. Ask her what she needs, and try to provide it if you can.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> Have you stopped talking to and dating the other 2 you had in the ho-tation? :laugh:
> 
> I’ve found that when significant life things like a death come up in the beginning of a relationship, sometimes that actually helps form a bond. When you see how someone treats you during a crisis (even someone you just met), it can make your feelings for them be much deeper.
> 
> When my ex and I were first dating, a good friend of his died unexpectedly. I had met the friend once and was shocked and saddened by the news. I offered to go to the funeral to support my ex who at that time wasn’t even a full boyfriend yet. I just knew he did not have anyone to lean on at that time. I thought of it more like something I’d do for a friend, not a romantic gesture.
> 
> It turned out that we both were swept away by the grief and emotions of the funeral, and we both sobbed and held each other’s hand the whole time. I had lost my father a few years earlier and his funeral was still with me. But also hearing this man’s young wife and children speak at his funeral so bravely and lovingly...it killed me.
> 
> We had lunch after that, and just sat and remained in that highly emotion state for some time, and we talked about what is important in life and how it is fleeting and what we are most grateful for. It helped us see each other’s core very transparently in a brief window of openness. Normally such topics would not have been discussed except over time as we got to know each other.
> 
> That glimpse we had into each other showed us what we were made of in a fascinating way.
> 
> Anyway, of course being open to other things coming along is best. But if you like this one I have a feeling she’s feeling it too and will be settled soon.


There is a lot to unpack in your post. Thank you for sharing it. Also, I am exploring other hoe ptions.  

On our last date. We talked a lot about deal breakers. We talked about expectations or desires. I gave her the option of considering the circumstances just being friends. That I can take in one female friend at this time, but no more. If she wants to pursue a relationship we will take it slow. I have a kiddo, she is going through cancer with a parent. Whose survival beyond 6 months is not understood or guaranteed. (It went from breast to breast a lung cancer.)

So there is a lot going on there. My mom died a 2 years ago this December. My Father, erm that is a mixed bad of violent crazy that I have distanced myself from. 


So I can empathize with where she is at. I realize that it makes us both vulnerable. Which usually causes a bond. The good part is I am aware of it, the bad news is I am aware of it. Done it before, and I am not sure if this is the time in a relationship where I want it becoming serious. 

So day by day, and not entering into "let's not date other people" territory.


----------



## ne9907

THank you FIP. Your advice is always the soundest


----------



## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> There is a lot to unpack in your post. Thank you for sharing it. Also, I am exploring other hoe ptions.
> 
> On our last date. We talked a lot about deal breakers. We talked about expectations or desires. I gave her the option of considering the circumstances just being friends. That I can take in one female friend at this time, but no more. If she wants to pursue a relationship we will take it slow. I have a kiddo, she is going through cancer with a parent. Whose survival beyond 6 months is not understood or guaranteed. (It went from breast to breast a lung cancer.)
> 
> So there is a lot going on there. My mom died a 2 years ago this December. My Father, erm that is a mixed bad of violent crazy that I have distanced myself from.
> 
> 
> So I can empathize with where she is at. I realize that it makes us both vulnerable. Which usually causes a bond. The good part is I am aware of it, the bad news is I am aware of it. Done it before, and I am not sure if this is the time in a relationship where I want it becoming serious.
> 
> So day by day, and not entering into "let's not date other people" territory.


It sounds like taking it slow with her is the way to go, especially with everything going on in both of your lives. And kiddo is going to go through a lot, emotionally, in the next year or two (regardless of cancer outcome), and that will require a lot of you as well.


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> THank you FIP. Your advice is always the soundest


You're welcome. My distance from situations makes it easier.

I can give great advice, but it's always harder when trying to apply that advice to my own life.


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I can give great advice, but it's always harder when trying to apply that advice to my own life.


FIP I'm not sure about historically, but you seem to be giving yourself and taking your own good advice, particularly since the break up but before that, too. You seem to be doing great and healing and settling in as expected. :x


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> While it is true that these experiences can accelerate bonding, I think it is also important to be wary of potentially bonding with someone you shouldn't bond with.


Is a great point. I think hope4 and this lady are probably in the safe zone for bonding by now.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> FIP I'm not sure about historically, but you seem to be giving yourself and taking your own good advice, particularly since the break up but before that, too. You seem to be doing great and healing and settling in as expected. :x


Thanks 

You should have seen me when I started dating after my divorce was final. I was a mess, LOL!

It's an ongoing process. I'm getting better as it as time goes on, but I think that is because I am making a concerted effort to actually work at self-development and growing. Intention is half the battle, I think.

I am doing much better than I was initially after the breakup. I think I've gotten through most of the emotions and the grief, and that was the big destabilizing factor for me. And the first month was difficult, because it also included the "when will we make up and get back together?" because that was our pattern... and that conflicted with actually working through the grief.

I'm still not interested in dating anyone, and don't think that I will be for a long time. I have other things in my life which are more important to me, and more deserving of my time and attention. I will post more about that later, simply because I have stuff to accomplish before I go to work later this afternoon. But let's just say I am making big plans for my future, and I'm really excited.


----------



## hope4family

FeministInPink said:


> It sounds like taking it slow with her is the way to go, especially with everything going on in both of your lives. And kiddo is going to go through a lot, emotionally, in the next year or two (regardless of cancer outcome), and that will require a lot of you as well.


Pretty much. 

Being a single Dad. I mandatory take things slow. I have my own issues, that even if I tell them to your face they could take days, weeks, months, even years to potentially surface in any meaningful way. 

But, she didn't choose her circumstance with her Mom. She is choosing to continue to date, and has said she taking a hard look at the long game right now. I'm sure as we talk we will continue to define what this all means. I could only repeat and insist in the short term that I am willing to take this slow.


----------



## Blondilocks

Hope Shimmers said:


> Good GOD! WTF is WRONG with you?
> 
> Can't you just let people BE? Who CARES if people think "your way" -- whatever that means -- is wrong!
> 
> Just do your own thing, be secure in it already, and stop fighting everyone who disagrees with you. And Stop the caustic posts!
> 
> Jeez.
> 
> You can have ReformedHubby. I want nothing to do with him. A 'gentleman' doesn't cheat on his wife multiple times or his girlfriend multiple times too. Wake UP.


Trying to start a cat fight will not get you permanently banned. You'll need to do something more egregious like tell off a moderator or two or three to accomplish that. Of course, you could always just block yourself from posting on TAM if you're serious about having your account removed. Good luck!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Epic date after effects....still smiling!

I had to tell the whole story of my epic date adventure to practically everyone I know yesterday. Since they all knew I had this upcoming event, they were on pins and needles waiting to hear how it went. Also of course, they wanted to make sure it wasn’t catfish. I loved telling the story every time and my listeners were captivated while I told them.

They all were so happy for me but I’m sure some of them doubted if this was real or not. Now relieved that he is real, they couldn’t wait to hear all of it.

At this time I just hope to see him again but the logistics of doing so aren’t simple so, time will tell.

Without further smoke screening....I want to tell you all, @ReformedHubby is real. He’s really real! He’s also a super cool and chill guy, and he’s honestly not trying to jerk me or anyone else around. He simply took me up on my offer to come see me because we have both had an unspoken crush on each other for awhile here. He is spontaneous and fun like that, and if we had had no chemistry he still would have had a great time (because I do know how to show someone a great time in my city!). 

No matter what happens next, RH is definitely an epic level friend! Maybe more. But never less. :x


----------



## Lila

@Faithful Wife I'm so happy to hear you had a lovely time meeting a fellow TAM member IRL. I hope your friendship can continue regardless of distance.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Epic date after effects....still smiling!
> 
> I had to tell the whole story of my epic date adventure to practically everyone I know yesterday. Since they all knew I had this upcoming event, they were on pins and needles waiting to hear how it went. Also of course, they wanted to make sure it wasn’t catfish. I loved telling the story every time and my listeners were captivated while I told them.
> 
> They all were so happy for me but I’m sure some of them doubted if this was real or not. Now relieved that he is real, they couldn’t wait to hear all of it.
> 
> At this time I just hope to see him again but the logistics of doing so aren’t simple so, time will tell.
> 
> Without further smoke screening....I want to tell you all, @ReformedHubby is real. He’s really real! He’s also a super cool and chill guy, and he’s honestly not trying to jerk me or anyone else around. He simply took me up on my offer to come see me because we have both had an unspoken crush on each other for awhile here. He is spontaneous and fun like that, and if we had had no chemistry he still would have had a great time (because I do know how to show someone a great time in my city!).
> 
> No matter what happens next, RH is definitely an epic level friend! Maybe more. But never less. :x


Whao now lol

Looks like you two may be busy stalking each other's posts on TAM for 'background research' if you haven't already, cause I know that's what I would be doing lol 

Logistics are easy, you both are in the same country, hope the best for you guys


----------



## Hope Shimmers

.......


----------



## Blondilocks

Hope Shimmers said:


> @faithfulwife , you clearly know this because I tried to send you a PM and I was blocked.
> 
> Please don't go forward with ReformedHubby. He has spent the last couple of days texting me "I want you back".
> 
> Please don't do it. I tried to say that in a post earlier and I was attacked. Please, just run.


Who attacked you?


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

Hope Shimmers said:


> .......




Hope, are you okay?


----------



## ne9907

@Hope Shimmers
are you okay? 
PM me if you want to talk. As I recall we were both heavily involved in this forum for a bit, then I sort of went off the radar, hope you are doing well lady.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Just to change the subject.....

Leaving in about 45 minutes for a first date.... horseback riding. It's a perfect day. I can't wait to get out and on my horse. 

I hope everyone is doing well


----------



## Blondilocks

Please stop. All parties involved are adults and this is just plain undignified.


----------



## 269370

john117 said:


> Besides, I'm available beginning in April. Few available guys on TAM can match my current events knowledge and conversation skills
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mod cleanup on aisle 9....



How can you stay on top of events with a gorgeous p6ssy blocking the view? 
(I bet you heard that one before).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

Hope Shimmers said:


> Wow. Okay.
> 
> I've tried to be more than civil.


*MODERATOR MESSAGE:-*

It is time that you all put each other on ignore.

Please start to behave with some decorum, all of you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Here is the real update about my epic date with @ReformedHubby ....

After a week of reflection, we both realize that the distance is just too much to overcome. We can’t get to know each other this way. We both felt that if we had an established relationship first, then one of us had to move, we would be able to overcome it. But not without some established way to get to know each other first, it just can’t work.

So we have decided to remain friends and possibly see each other again but with no expectations and just as friends. We both would still enjoy that.

We are both going to date locally again and will post our adventures here like we used to (or I will, I can’t speak for him). 

So that means we are now officially in a long distance, sexless, open relationship. Or in other words, friends. :laugh:


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Here is the real update about my epic date with @ReformedHubby ....
> 
> After a week of reflection, we both realize that the distance is just too much to overcome. We can’t get to know each other this way. We both felt that if we had an established relationship first, then one of us had to move, we would be able to overcome it. But not without some established way to get to know each other first, it just can’t work.
> 
> So we have decided to remain friends and possibly see each other again but with no expectations and just as friends. We both would still enjoy that.
> 
> We are both going to date locally again and will post our adventures here like we used to (or I will, I can’t speak for him).
> 
> _*So that means we are now officially in a long distance, sexless, open relationship. Or in other words, friends*_. :laugh:


I haven't said much ....but there is something I should probably confess, even though what we have is a long distance, sexless, open relationship, that makes us just friends. I did still put a VAR in your car just so you won't cheat on me. I figure I have to retrieve it at some point. In the mean time going to read NMMNG as this whole sexless relationship thing is new to me :rofl:

On another note. Move along folks nothing to see here!!! Going to keep my dating life private for the foreseeable future, but will still lurk and say hello from time to time.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

ne9907 said:


> @Hope Shimmers
> are you okay?
> PM me if you want to talk. As I recall we were both heavily involved in this forum for a bit, then I sort of went off the radar, hope you are doing well lady.


Hey there NE, thank you for the message! I have missed your posts.

I'm good, but since battling some health issues I notice myself being very sensitive about people getting hurt. Not just people I guess, because I can barely stand Facebook anymore because of all the animal abuse videos that my friends keep sending me, lol. When I see others hurt it just hurts me more than it ever has. Clearly I over-react. No one can fix the world.

Regarding the issue you posted about before with your boyfriend..... I tend to agree with FIP. He's being transparent, and that means a lot. He really can't control what other people do. I would probably just let it go (easier said than done, I know). I too have to agree that buying the dog is weird, though. Can you remind me how long you two have been together?


----------



## RandomDude

WTF?!

Ne way moving along...


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Dammit looks like I missed all the good stuff! Oops, I'll go back to lurking quietly since I'm a married person..


----------



## Lifescript

Hey guys, 

I have a question as I’m not sure how to handle this situation. 

Seeing this girl who I’m really into. In the past, she was with a guy (relationship lasted 6 months) who plays in a band. They broke things up because he cheated on her. 

She told me she was going out with her sister this weekend to see a local artist that’s playing. I was fine with it and encouraged her to go out. Now she tells me the sister wants to go out the next day when the artist will play along with the band my girls’ ex plays in. So she will most likely see him there and he was after her even after they broke up. Now I’ve told her and we talked about this and she agreed going to bars and places where she will likely see him is not ok and not a good idea. 

And now she tells me this. 

I’ve exhibited jealous behavior before. This girls gets hit on by guys a ton and has lots of male attention. 

So one hand I don’t want to come off as controlling or over jealous but also don’t want to come off as someone she can push boundaries with. In my mind she should have told the sister she would pass on going to see both bands and just go see the other artist that has nothing to do with the band her ex plays in. 

What should I do here? How should I handle this? 

If I say ok and don’t make a big deal I show her I trust her and I’m confident and not controlling. But also can come off as a pushover, someone she can push boundaries with and she is going against what she said she would do. 

Do I say fine you can go but only if I’m coming along as well. My instinct is not to do that.

LS


----------



## sunsetmist

Do/say what you are comfortable with--what you want to happen.. Don't worry about appearances. Then you won't blame yourself if something should go wrong.


----------



## Lifescript

sunsetmist said:


> Do/say what you are comfortable with--what you want to happen.. Don't worry about appearances. Then you won't blame yourself if something should go wrong.



I see what you are saying but is not that easy. I don’t want her to go. I think is disrespectful for her to go unless she is uncertain her ex won’t be there. But I’ve acted jealous a lot before and don’t want to do that. Have also let women push boundaries and don’t want to do that either. 

I almost feel like saying ok. Part of me thinks she is testing me to see what I’ll say. She has complained that I’m too jealous.


----------



## sunsetmist

Lifescript said:


> I see what you are saying but is not that easy. I don’t want her to go. I think is disrespectful for her to go unless she is uncertain her ex won’t be there. But I’ve acted jealous a lot before and don’t want to do that. Have also let women push boundaries and don’t want to do that either.
> 
> I almost feel like saying ok. Part of me thinks she is testing me to see what I’ll say. She has complained that I’m too jealous.


My advice still stands. I'd say,"I'm jealous, please don't go." Then she decides whether to listen to you or do otherwise. Then you react accordingly. This is a matter of respect--don't lie about your feelings--they are honest and you should be genuine in your interactions. If you care about her, let her know that is why you feel as you do. 

If she wants to move on, it won't be because you waffled....


----------



## Lifescript

sunsetmist said:


> My advice still stands. I'd say,"I'm jealous, please don't go." Then she decides whether to listen to you or do otherwise. Then you react accordingly. This is a matter of respect--don't lie about your feelings--they are honest and you should be genuine in your interactions. If you care about her, let her know that is why you feel as you do.
> 
> 
> 
> If she wants to move on, it won't be because you waffled....




I wouldn’t say I’m jealous please don’t go. That sounds very weak. Although I know what you mean that honesty is better than not saying exactly how you feel. To me is a matter of respect more than jealousy. I wouldn’t go somewhere I knew I could run into an ex of mine out of respect for her.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> What should I do here? How should I handle this?
> 
> If I say ok and don’t make a big deal I show her I trust her and I’m confident and not controlling. But also can come off as a pushover, someone she can push boundaries with and she is going against what she said she would do.
> 
> Do I say fine you can go but only if I’m coming along as well. My instinct is not to do that.
> 
> LS


Why is your instinct not to do that? Perhaps you know deep down this girl doesn't really care how you feel about the situation.

Some jealousy isn't a bad thing, people including myself once upon a time saw it as a bad thing but now I actually appreciate it as long as its not excessive. My girlfriend and I simply consider each others feelings with it comes to certain opposite sex friends and if it doesn't feel right to both of us neither of us disrespect the other enough to just go anyway. 

We don't have to go "you can't go", we simply have the standard for each other to go "you can go if you want, but this is how I would feel", and then see what happens.

Besides she's already agreed seeing him is a bad idea, why is she backtracking?


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> Why is your instinct not to do that? Perhaps you know deep down this girl doesn't really care how you feel about the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Some jealousy isn't a bad thing, people including myself once upon a time saw it as a bad thing but now I actually appreciate it as long as its not excessive. My girlfriend and I simply consider each others feelings with it comes to certain opposite sex friends and if it doesn't feel right to both of us neither of us disrespect the other enough to just go anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have to go "you can't go", we simply have the standard for each other to go "you can go if you want, but this is how I would feel", and then see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides she's already agreed seeing him is a bad idea, why is she backtracking?




It’s very complicated with her. She has done stuff that has hurt me like talking to a guy that has been after her forever even after I told her to cut contact with him. She said she only see him as a friend to which I replied fine but he doesn’t see you like that and is trying to get in your pants so stop talking to him. She did block him after our last talk about that. 

She has slowly realized how having these guys as orbiters is bad and not ok. 

Not sure why she is backtracking now. Maybe I should just remind her of our conversation about this where she said she wouldn’t go to these events.


----------



## sunsetmist

Lifescript said:


> I wouldn’t say I’m jealous please don’t go. That sounds very weak. Although I know what you mean that honesty is better than not saying exactly how you feel. To me is a matter of respect more than jealousy. I wouldn’t go somewhere I knew I could run into an ex of mine out of respect for her.


Good for you--ask for respect--leave out the please if you choose. (I guess I'm the one who would have been jealous--especially since you know they had a connection and he still wants her.) I'm hoping she is trustworthy and does not want to be with a cheater. Otherwise, you don't want her either, right?


----------



## Lifescript

sunsetmist said:


> Good for you--ask for respect--leave out the please if you choose. (I guess I'm the one who would have been jealous--especially since you know they had a connection and he still wants her.) I'm hoping she is trustworthy and does not want to be with a cheater. Otherwise, you don't want her either, right?




No way in hell. If she wants to be back with the ex she can go with him. Just don’t string me along. I won’t be there for that ride.


----------



## sunsetmist

Lifescript said:


> No way in hell. If she wants to be back with the ex she can go with him. Just don’t string me along. I won’t be there for that ride.


Expected, perfect response--thank you. Aren't you tired of carrying this in two threads?


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> It’s very complicated with her. She has done stuff that has hurt me like talking to a guy that has been after her forever even after I told her to cut contact with him. She said she only see him as a friend to which I replied fine but he doesn’t see you like that and is trying to get in your pants so stop talking to him. She did block him after our last talk about that.
> 
> She has slowly realized how having these guys as orbiters is bad and not ok.
> 
> Not sure why she is backtracking now. Maybe I should just remind her of our conversation about this where she said she wouldn’t go to these events.


She likes the attention. She's not ready for a committed relationship. I would bump her to category 2; friends or FWB material, nothing more.

As you said it's a matter of respect, she's either stupid or insensitive or selfish to not know or care about how you feel. Next her.


----------



## Lifescript

sunsetmist said:


> Expected, perfect response--thank you. Aren't you tired of carrying this in two threads?




I have my private thread where I post about lots of stuff and I post here mainly about dating and relationship stuff.


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> She likes the attention. She's not ready for a committed relationship. I would bump her to category 2; friends or FWB material, nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> As you said it's a matter of respect, she's either stupid or insensitive or selfish to not know or care about how you feel. Next her.




She says this guy wouldn’t be there because this is an acoustic show. She doesn’t get that whether he’s there or not is not the issue. It’s that she would rather say yes to her sister and go do something she know I’m not ok with.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> She says this guy wouldn’t be there because this is an acoustic show. She doesn’t get that whether he’s there or not is not the issue. It’s that she would rather say yes to her sister and go do something she know I’m not ok with.


My girlfriend and I wouldn't think twice when it comes to situations like this, we both put each other's feelings first. But that's our standard.

It's a tough one to have sure, most don't, but it's your choice whether you want this standard in your relationship I guess. I recommend it, but that's just me.


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> My girlfriend and I wouldn't think twice when it comes to situations like this, we both put each other's feelings first. But that's our standard.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a tough one to have sure, most don't, but it's your choice whether you want this standard in your relationship I guess. I recommend it, but that's just me.




Yep. She says she loves me. If she did she wouldn’t even be considering this and would have told the sister dude I want to hang out with you but we gotta go see another band.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> Yep. She says she loves me. If she did she wouldn’t even be considering this and would have told the sister dude I want to hang out with you but we gotta go see another band.


Exactly!

Saying ILU means sh-t to me, it's what she shows. If your feelings are so low priority for her, than her ILUs should go in one ear and out the other.


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> Saying ILU means sh-t to me, it's what she shows. If your feelings are so low priority for her, than her ILUs should go in one ear and out the other.




Yep. 

She’s saying she won’t stop seeing a singer she loves to see live because of fear of running into her ex. So I guess that’s that. Funny thing is unlike the Saturday outing I haven’t been invited to this one.


----------



## 2&out

Good for her. She shouldn't make decisions solely based on what someone else might think/feel - it's a never ending losing battle. She can't fix if your insecure about your place in her life - only you can.


----------



## Lifescript

2&out said:


> Good for her. She shouldn't make decisions based on what someone else might think/feel - it's a never ending losing battle. She can't fix if your insecure about your place in her life - only you can.




Well yes I get that but in a relationship people can act in ways that show your what your place in the relationship is. Boundaries are set and if one is not comfortable about something compromises can be made.


----------



## bkyln309

Lifescript said:


> Well yes I get that but in a relationship people can act in ways that show your what your place in the relationship is. Boundaries are set and if one is not comfortable about something compromises can be made.



Honestly, this says alot about your relationship if you cannot trust her to be in a public place with an ex. Has he given you reason to think she is using this as an excuse to hang out with him? 

I can tell you I could be in a room full of my exes listening to music and I wouldnt do anything with any of them if I had a boyfriend. It comes down to trust. I would be put off if my boyfriend said you cannot go to a concert because a band where your ex is playing will be there. Because my boyfriend would have no reason NOT to trust me. Period. Jealousy like that would send me running.


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> Honestly, this says alot about your relationship if you cannot trust her to be in a public place with an ex. Has he given you reason to think she is using this as an excuse to hang out with him?
> 
> I can tell you I could be in a room full of my exes listening to music and I wouldnt do anything with any of them if I had a boyfriend. It comes down to trust. I would be put off if my boyfriend said you cannot go to a concert because a band where your ex is playing will be there. Because my boyfriend would have no reason NOT to trust me. Period. Jealousy like that would send me running.




Trust is an issue. It’s not a perfect relationship but things have gotten better. 

She has had issues with setting boundaries with guys in the past. I have my issues from past relationships so I’m trying to not be overly jealous or act controlling but it’s not easy. 

The trust is better but still an issue that we are working on and this is why it bothers me off that she is pushing on this.


----------



## bkyln309

Lifescript said:


> Trust is an issue. It’s not a perfect relationship but things have gotten better.
> 
> She has had issues with setting boundaries with guys in the past. I have my issues from past relationships so I’m trying to not be overly jealous or act controlling but it’s not easy.
> 
> The trust is better but still an issue that we are working on and this is why it bothers me off that she is pushing on this.


She may be pushing back because she feels she has reassured you in the past and had to give up perfectly platonic relationships to appease you. Maybe your insecurity is exhausting her. A girl is only give up so much before she pushes back or leaves. Or she is up to something but to think that you should have hard and fast examples. 

What type of boundary setting was violated if you done mind me asking to create such doubt in you mind?


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> She may be pushing back because she feels she has reassured you in the past and had to give up perfectly platonic relationships to appease you. Maybe your insecurity is exhausting her. A girl is only give up so much before she pushes back or leaves. Or she is up to something but to think that you should have hard and fast examples.
> 
> 
> 
> What type of boundary setting was violated if you done mind me asking to create such doubt in you mind?




There is this guy who has been after her for more than a decade. He’s even asked her to marry him even though according to her they have never been together. He has gone overseas and contacts her when he gets back in the state. I told her to block him. She says he’s no threat because she sees him just as a friend. 

She said she would block him and stop talking to him. Later I found out they were still talking. They had at least some kind of emotional affair where she tells him stuff about us. It’s weird. 

Now she blocked him but sometimes says she did it for me and didn’t think she needed to and feel bad that she didn’t even told him she was going to block him.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lifescript said:


> There is this guy who has been after her for more than a decade. He’s even asked her to marry him even though according to her they have never been together. He has gone overseas and contacts her when he gets back in the state. I told her to block him. She says he’s no threat because she sees him just as a friend.
> 
> She said she would block him and stop talking to him. Later I found out they were still talking. They had at least some kind of emotional affair where she tells him stuff about us. It’s weird.
> 
> Now she blocked him but sometimes says she did it for me and didn’t think she needed to and feel bad that she didn’t even told him she was going to block him.


It sounds like she just isn’t willing to be locked down. Some people don’t like being locked down and will never feel good in that position.

If that’s how she feels, it’s hard but yeah, that’s not what you want so....


----------



## Lifescript

Faithful Wife said:


> It sounds like she just isn’t willing to be locked down. Some people don’t like being locked down and will never feel good in that position.
> 
> 
> 
> If that’s how she feels, it’s hard but yeah, that’s not what you want so....




We were talking about a future together and kids and all that good stuff just yesterday. So it confuses me that she is taking this hard stance on this.


----------



## Affaircare

<Redacted link>

Oops I didn't want to repeat twice but also didn't consider it was a link to the private area.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> We were talking about a future together and kids and all that good stuff just yesterday. So it confuses me that she is taking this hard stance on this.


There's nothing to be confused about. Judge her based on her actions and not her words. That will show her true intent and priorities.


----------



## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> There's nothing to be confused about. Judge her based on her actions and not her words. That will show her true intent and priorities.


Does she talk to you about her interest rates on her 401k? How about her debt? Or her lack of divorcing? 

Time to go to bands, no time to go to divorce court? I guess booze and sex is pretty cheap when there are willing ****s around. 

As with ex-w, the sex must just be that bonding with new gal so I get it. 

Guy question, did you do no-nut November? Science says after day 7 you max out on testosterone and then it slows down on day 8 for testosterone. You might need the build up to put this woman in her place in terms of what your boundaries are. Remember no more Mr nice guy and the chapter about masturbation and sex? Said a lot about awareness and male energy. Go re-read it. I could PM you some fun stuff I learned from it. 

My advice for the female contraption you are in? Hell, put a smile and your face and say, "well I am uncomfortable with this, so I guess i'll just go do something that would make you potentially uncomfortable and we will see how this feels together. Who knows, maybe i'll enjoy it, maybe it'll be a learning experience for my "hard no"." Did you ever tell her that you have to randomly trial the workout exercises from "no more mr nice guy"? Might be time for a reminder.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I feel like if she really wants to see this other artist that particular night, then she should invite you along. Why have you not been invited? She is disrespecting your feelings on this. I personally have a SERIOUS issue with ex's. She has already shown you disrespect with that other guy she said she cut contact with and didn't. Why did you stick around after that one? While she may not have feelings for this particular ex any more, she should still take your feelings into consideration, and if she doesn't, she is sending you a clear message where you rate in her life's priorities.


----------



## Lifescript

3Xnocharm said:


> I feel like if she really wants to see this other artist that particular night, then she should invite you along. Why have you not been invited? She is disrespecting your feelings on this. I personally have a SERIOUS issue with ex's. She has already shown you disrespect with that other guy she said she cut contact with and didn't. Why did you stick around after that one? While she may not have feelings for this particular ex any more, she should still take your feelings into consideration, and if she doesn't, she is sending you a clear message where you rate in her life's priorities.




I stuck around because I believe they did nothing physical and she was just using him to vent and talk about stuff.

Right. I get that she may really want to go see this guy play who her ex plays with but is it worth it disrespecting me and putting the relationship in jeopardy? 

I have not been invited to this new outing. No.


----------



## FeministInPink

@Lifescript I would say to her something like, "Listen, you going to this thing is a clear violation of our previous agreement, and shows me that you don't really care about my feelings in this situation. It would be one thing if you invited me along, but you have explicitly NOT invited me. So this poses a problem. I don't want to control you, but I need to be with someone who respects me and my needs/feelings in this relationship, and your choice in this matter is very telling. Go if you want to go, but don't expect this relationship to last if you do."

However, I did take a peek at your private thread while the link was still up, and I think this girl is hella unstable and you should NEXT her anyway. The right woman for you will help ease your jealousy, not make it worse. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## EleGirl

Faithful Wife said:


> Don't think we are supposed to copy links from private to public?


The link will only work for those who have access to the private forum.


----------



## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> I stuck around because I believe they did nothing physical and she was just using him to vent and talk about stuff.
> 
> Right. I get that she may really want to go see this guy play who her ex plays with but is it worth it disrespecting me and putting the relationship in jeopardy?
> 
> I have not been invited to this new outing. No.


My girlfriend gets invited to parties all the time, she tells me about each of the guests, and if she even suspects a certain guest would make me uncomfortable (such as a stalker or orbiter or ex), she rejects straight away. I always encourage her to go out and have fun, but she makes decisions based on what she feels is best for both of us. With many of them she tells them she's only coming along if she brings me. In fact, she always wants to introduce me to everyone so I can 'claim' her in front of all the guys who hit on her, letting them know loud and clear she's my girl. And if they say no plus ones (which is common), she declines. With that, it's rather obvious where I stand with her priorities.

I also recently got invited to an upcoming party, I don't even know many of the people there, and I asked if I could bring her, they said no, so I ain't going. Not a chance; as we go as a pair or not at all. Not going to put my girlfriend through all that crap. Now we don't tell each other we can't go, we respect each other's decisions, but we don't hide our feelings from each other either. And we both make decisions to make each other happy, rather than just ourselves. It's been like this since we met.

Now compare this to your girlfriend:

1) She knows it bothers you, but she wants to do it anyway
2) She even agreed to cut contact, but she broke her word
3) She could have invited you, but she didn't.

It's night and day. I wouldn't say you're at fault, she is.


----------



## Lifescript

What can I say guys... as I sit in my living room in my apartment, drink in hand, staring at the big skyscrapers in the distance... I contemplate about everything that has happened since I met her and where things went wrong and feel so much sadness. The pain is not as quite as when I found out my ex cheated on me but similar. 

There was again the savior complex. She was unhappy, neglected when I met her. She told me about her life and her dreams and her likes and we are so alike. She is from same place I’m from. At 5 different stages of our lives without knowing we were living really closed to each other. I bought into the idea that maybe this was destiny, that we were meant to be together. 

There were things that happened to me after I met her where she had my back and supported me. I felt special and if you remember my ex never made me feel that way. This girl made me feel like I was a king, like she loved me. 

We talked today. She explained her sister already bought tickets and that’s why she has to go. She also said her mom is going with them. Not sure I can believe that. 

I told her if she goes to this event she can forget about me. She went on and on about me needing to be more understanding and compromise. 

Then I said ok... say I tell you is ok to go this ONE time because you are going with your mom and sister. Can you promise you won’t go to any more of these events? She said she couldn’t promise that. She started saying I was being controlling and wanted a woman who is submissive and that’s not who she is. 

I said I want a woman who cares about my needs and who would take into consideration my opinion and respect boundaries. 

I ended things with her. She then called me crying and said she would not go to any more of his concerts. I said why did we have to go through all this to agree to this? She said she is doing it because I’m forcing her to, not because she wants to. 

I said bye and ended the call.


----------



## FeministInPink

@Lifescript That's tough, I'm sorry the conversation didn't work out how you hoped. Someone wise once told me, "Sometimes what you want isn't the best thing for you; sometimes getting what you want is actually the worst that could happen, but you don't see it until later." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you understand. If she WAS good/right for you, I think this would have turned out differently... then again, if she was right for you, this never would have been an issue in the first place.

It strikes me that it never occurred to her to get you a ticket, which would have been a simple solution, if she HAS to go because tickets have been purchased. (Which is total BS, by the way... her sister could always find someone else to take the ticket.) And it bothers me that she couldn't say, "Ok, now that I know how you feel about this, I won't go again."

I don't feel like you're asking too much of her. It's ONE band, and her ex is in the band. And you're ok with it if you're with her at the show, which seems reasonable. If you're in a relationship, don't you want your person to do this kind of stuff with you?

If it was my ex, I wouldn't be interested in going at all... because he's the ex. But that's me.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

So, it appears that Real Estate is not handling our breakup as well as I am. I didn't go digging for anything, it just found me.

This past Saturday afternoon, I was working at the bookstore, and a friend of RE showed up. We will call him Kenya, because he lives in Kenya, but he rents a condo here in RE's building because he is in DC a lot. They've known each other going on probably 10 yrs now.

Anyway, he came to the bookstore hoping to find me, and he's like, "We need to talk about RE." Kenya flew in a few days earlier, and was flying out the next morning. So we agreed to go grab a drink when I was done with work.

Apparently, RE is refusing to even talk about the breakup--the only reason Kenya knew we had broken up was because I texted him to tell him I wouldn't be planning anything for RE's birthday because we broke up (Kenya was planning on flying back for RE's birthday). It's almost as if he isn't even acknowledging that we broke up. Almost four months in, and he still has my pictures up and the "I Love You" bear sitting out. And Kenya says that RE keeps mentioning me, like we never broke up and I'm still in his life. 

However, Kenya also said that RE is also clearly unhappy, and that his temper is out of control and he's lashing out at people and distancing himself from his friends. (I went with some of his friends to trivia last week, and no one has heard from him since his birthday in September.) Even the maintenance guy at his building, who also is RE's contractor for the properties he manages, has been avoiding RE because of it, and they are really buddy-buddy. Kenya says that RE is drinking way more than usual and smoking more than usual, and basically won't leave his condo unless he absolutely needs to.

I'm not planning on doing anything with this information, but I've thought about talking to some of his other friends and passing this on. I don't know... I understand now why his friends said I was good for him. One of his friends repeatedly told me, "You make RE a better person." I never really got that, because all I knew was who he was WITH me. I guess this is what he was like before he met me?

His friends have invited me to spend New Year's Eve with them--they're having a game night--and I assume RE will be there. His friends really like me and want to keep me, and I enjoy their company as well. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Lifescript said:


> We talked today. She explained her sister already bought tickets and that’s why she has to go. She also said her mom is going with them. Not sure I can believe that.
> I told her if she goes to this event she can forget about me. She went on and on about me needing to be more understanding and compromise.
> Then I said ok... say I tell you is ok to go this ONE time because you are going with your mom and sister. Can you promise you won’t go to any more of these events? She said she couldn’t promise that. She started saying I was being controlling and wanted a woman who is submissive and that’s not who she is.
> I said I want a woman who cares about my needs and who would take into consideration my opinion and respect boundaries.
> I ended things with her. She then called me crying and said she would not go to any more of his concerts. I said why did we have to go through all this to agree to this? *She said she is doing it because I’m forcing her to, not because she wants to. *
> I said bye and ended the call.


Then it's obvious she does not love you. You rank low in her priorities. She wants to do what she wants regardless of whether or not it makes you happy.

My girlfriend and I are polar opposites when it comes to this, she makes decisions based on what would make me most happy and vice versa, just as I made the decision immediately after being invited to an outing not to go as it didn't give me the option to bring her. It's what I WANT to do, not because she's forcing me to decline.

Proud of you for ending things, she's obviously not ready for a committed relationship. You've dodged a bullet with this one.



FeministInPink said:


> @Lifescript That's tough, I'm sorry the conversation didn't work out how you hoped. Someone wise once told me, "Sometimes what you want isn't the best thing for you; sometimes getting what you want is actually the worst that could happen, but you don't see it until later." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you understand. If she WAS good/right for you, I think this would have turned out differently... then again, if she was right for you, this never would have been an issue in the first place.
> 
> *It strikes me that it never occurred to her to get you a ticket, which would have been a simple solution, if she HAS to go because tickets have been purchased. (Which is total BS, by the way... her sister could always find someone else to take the ticket.) And it bothers me that she couldn't say, "Ok, now that I know how you feel about this, I won't go again."*
> 
> I don't feel like you're asking too much of her. It's ONE band, and her ex is in the band. And you're ok with it if you're with her at the show, which seems reasonable. If you're in a relationship, don't you want your person to do this kind of stuff with you?
> 
> If it was my ex, I wouldn't be interested in going at all... because he's the ex. But that's me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Exactly, my girlfriend mentioned the same thing when I told her about this. It's such a simple solution.

This whole thing could have been different if the dynamics were different. I had a similar situation a few months ago with my girlfriend, it's not like there was an ex there wanting for me, but it was clubbing, a dangerous environment for attached folk who go alone.

My cousins were visiting from overseas, so I had to take them around. They were on a tight schedule but we made time for them, she was with me as we all met up. However, on their last night they wanted to see my city's nightlife - aka clubbing, I invited my girlfriend but she had plans with her family, and I couldn't reschedule with my cousins as obviously they had to fly back. I told her that I'm not going to go and that we can just have dinner instead.

But she insisted I take them, we actually argued about it, but it was the other way around - I wanted to cancel, she wanted me to go! That's how far we were willing to go to make each other happy. In the end she convinced me as it's not an opportunity my cousins are going to have for a long time, so I took photos of the outing, videos, updated my girlfriend each step of the way. I avoided alcohol and was more the big brother for my cousins, making sure they are safe and guiding them around the scene. She stayed up all night, worried, but we made it home safe and I told her about the night.

We made sacrifices for each other, and it was a two way street, the relationship is 100/100, not 50/50, not 60/40, we are each other's priorities.

@Lifescript

Now I'm not saying you should make that sacrifice for your now ex-girlfriend, because if you do, that is a ONE-SIDED affair.

Up your standards, and don't care about people who say "don't be so controlling" "give them some freedom". Relationships come with sacrifices to a single lifestyle, if you aren't willing to make such sacrifices you aren't ready for a committed relationship. It's about two, not just one. Your ex simply does not understand this. I didn't understand it either until I fell in love for the first time in my bloody 30s.

I shared your story with my girlfriend, her words exactly; "is this guy fking stupid?!" lol

Be glad bro, you're wising up.


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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> So, it appears that Real Estate is not handling our breakup as well as I am. I didn't go digging for anything, it just found me.
> 
> This past Saturday afternoon, I was working at the bookstore, and a friend of RE showed up. We will call him Kenya, because he lives in Kenya, but he rents a condo here in RE's building because he is in DC a lot. They've known each other going on probably 10 yrs now.
> 
> Anyway, he came to the bookstore hoping to find me, and he's like, "We need to talk about RE." Kenya flew in a few days earlier, and was flying out the next morning. So we agreed to go grab a drink when I was done with work.
> 
> Apparently, RE is refusing to even talk about the breakup--the only reason Kenya knew we had broken up was because I texted him to tell him I wouldn't be planning anything for RE's birthday because we broke up (Kenya was planning on flying back for RE's birthday). It's almost as if he isn't even acknowledging that we broke up. Almost four months in, and he still has my pictures up and the "I Love You" bear sitting out. And Kenya says that RE keeps mentioning me, like we never broke up and I'm still in his life.
> 
> However, Kenya also said that RE is also clearly unhappy, and that his temper is out of control and he's lashing out at people and distancing himself from his friends. (I went with some of his friends to trivia last week, and no one has heard from him since his birthday in September.) Even the maintenance guy at his building, who also is RE's contractor for the properties he manages, has been avoiding RE because of it, and they are really buddy-buddy. Kenya says that RE is drinking way more than usual and smoking more than usual, and basically won't leave his condo unless he absolutely needs to.
> 
> I'm not planning on doing anything with this information, but I've thought about talking to some of his other friends and passing this on. I don't know... I understand now why his friends said I was good for him. One of his friends repeatedly told me, "You make RE a better person." I never really got that, because all I knew was who he was WITH me. I guess this is what he was like before he met me?
> 
> His friends have invited me to spend New Year's Eve with them--they're having a game night--and I assume RE will be there. His friends really like me and want to keep me, and I enjoy their company as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Honestly sounds like you dodged a bullet with a man who has major life issues. I would not go to New Years Eve. No sense in putting yourself in that position. You seem like you have plenty of friends.


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## Lifescript

Couldn’t sleep well last night and this will be very tough. 

We’ve been seeing each other for months and shared so many great moments. 

When we were talking last night in person she wanted to kiss me. “Please kiss me. I want you to kiss me.” She said. We did. 

Guess she thought that would solve things. 

I did say some things to her I regret. I became a bit agitated (triggers from past relationship). 

Feeling in the dumps.

I feel like a failure. Gotta get out of this funk. 

I’ll be fine I know. Willl just take time.


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## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> @Lifescript And it bothers me that she couldn't say, "Ok, now that I know how you feel about this, I won't go again."
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Exactly. This is when I knew there was no compromise or fixing this. I told her ok go this one time with your sis and mom and promise this won’t be an issue again. And she said she couldn’t do that. 

Then she said ok I won’t go unless you are with me. This is when she called me later. But said she was doing it because I was forcing her. And I don’t want to force anybody to do anything.


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## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> Honestly sounds like you dodged a bullet with a man who has major life issues. I would not go to New Years Eve. No sense in putting yourself in that position. You seem like you have plenty of friends.




I agree. Don’t go FIP.


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## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Exactly. This is when I knew there was no compromise or fixing this. I told her ok go this one time with your sis and mom and promise this won’t be an issue again. And she said she couldn’t do that.
> 
> Then she said ok I won’t go unless you are with me. This is when she called me later. But said she was doing it because I was forcing her. And I don’t want to force anybody to do anything.


You're not FORCING anyone to do anything. You are establishing your boundaries and letting her know what is and is not acceptable to you, and letting her know what the consequences of those actions are. You're not holding a gun to her head. You're giving her a choice.

If she sees this as you "forcing" her to do something, she needs to grow up, because the doesn't understand boundaries in adult relationships.

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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Honestly sounds like you dodged a bullet with a man who has major life issues. I would not go to New Years Eve. No sense in putting yourself in that position. You seem like you have plenty of friends.


I told them them thanks for the invite, but if RE goes, I likely will not. They understand my desire not to see him right now.

They all play on a trivia team together, and they want me to continue to play on their team. I've told them I will come out when I know RE won't be joining. But that will become tiresome. If I want to keep them in my life, I will have to eventually see him again.

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## Bananapeel

@Lifescript - I'm proud of you. It's always best to end things on your terms when they aren't working rather than hanging around hoping they'll change or waiting for another person to take action. And you finally established a boundary and backed it up. Carry that feeling into your future relationships and project that confidence and you will have a lot less of that inconsiderate behavior to deal with in the future. 
@FeministInPink - You're obviously a caring person and I imagine this is probably affecting you somewhat, even though you recognized that it isn't your problem to deal with. I'm sure it still hurts a bit. 


I guess I'll do a relationship update so we can put some happy news on this thread. Things are still going great with my GF and I now have a key to her place and she has one to mine, but we still haven't done the kid introduction. Last night we talked about how we met and she reminded me of some things I forgot and what she felt about them at the time. One of the biggest things that sucked post-D is that my XW and I had so many stories/memories/history that we were the gatekeepers for and that is now gone. It's really nice starting to have that type of history developing with someone new and we are starting to discuss taking some trips together this spring and summer, including to neighboring states and to Europe. One of the best things is we have the most intimate and emotionally vulnerable talks, and that is something I've never been able to do with anyone else I've dated. We're a great match in the bedroom too, but I'll leave that up to everyone's imagination rather than posting details.


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## FeministInPink

@Bananapeel I'm happy to hear that (your update). I'm glad things are going well for you, she sounds like a good fit 

Regarding RE, yes, it has been on my mind quite a bit... this conversation happened almost a week ago, but I'm posting about it now, so it's obviously something I'm thinking about. I also recognize that this is not my problem; HE broke up with me, HE ended the relationship, HE created this problem, and it is his to deal with. My job is to take care of me.

It occurs to me that because it was our pattern to break up (in this exact same fashion) and get back together, he was probably expecting that we would get back together after a month or so apart. And now he's realizing that isn't going to happen, and he's starting to really understand what he's done... and that's why he's so angry. (Which is, of course, a mask for a whole assortment of emotions.) He's also discovering that his attempts to protect himself emotionally (claiming he doesn't love me, breaking off the relationship prematurely) didn't do anything to protect him, and hurt him far more than helped.

I told him when we broke up that I wasn't going to close the door on us getting back together, but if that was going to happen, he needed to start seeing a therapist and deal with his issues, because I need someone who can make a commitment, not someone who has a compulsion to break up with me every 3-6 months. It's safe to assume that he's not seeing a therapist. Honestly, there's probably a <1% chance of that happening.

It makes me sad for him. He really is a great guy, and he has a big heart, but he's letting his fear hold him prisoner.

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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> @Bananapeel I'm happy to hear that (your update). I'm glad things are going well for you, she sounds like a good fit
> 
> Regarding RE, yes, it has been on my mind quite a bit... this conversation happened almost a week ago, but I'm posting about it now, so it's obviously something I'm thinking about. I also recognize that this is not my problem; HE broke up with me, HE ended the relationship, HE created this problem, and it is his to deal with. My job is to take care of me.
> 
> It occurs to me that because it was our pattern to break up (in this exact same fashion) and get back together, he was probably expecting that we would get back together after a month or so apart. And now he's realizing that isn't going to happen, and he's starting to really understand what he's done... and that's why he's so angry. (Which is, of course, a mask for a whole assortment of emotions.) He's also discovering that his attempts to protect himself emotionally (claiming he doesn't love me, breaking off the relationship prematurely) didn't do anything to protect him, and hurt him far more than helped.
> 
> I told him when we broke up that I wasn't going to close the door on us getting back together, but if that was going to happen, he needed to start seeing a therapist and deal with his issues, because I need someone who can make a commitment, not someone who has a compulsion to break up with me every 3-6 months. It's safe to assume that he's not seeing a therapist. Honestly, there's probably a <1% chance of that happening.
> 
> It makes me sad for him. He really is a great guy, and he has a big heart, but he's letting his fear hold him prisoner.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Do you really want to be with someone who has an out of control temper and drinking/smoking problems when things dont go his way? This is indicative of a larger psychological and addiction issue that is not healthy for any person. This goes way deeper than a lack of commitment issues. I would not even consider going back. RE doesnt sound healthy at all.


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## sunsetmist

FeministInPink said:


> @Bananapeel I'm happy to hear that (your update). I'm glad things are going well for you, she sounds like a good fit
> 
> Regarding RE, yes, it has been on my mind quite a bit... this conversation happened almost a week ago, but I'm posting about it now, *so it's obviously something I'm thinking about. I also recognize that this is not my problem; HE broke up with me, HE ended the relationship, HE created this problem, and it is his to deal with. My job is to take care of me.*
> 
> It occurs to me that because it was our pattern to break up (in this exact same fashion) and get back together, he was probably expecting that we would get back together after a month or so apart. And now he's realizing that isn't going to happen, and he's starting to really understand what he's done... and that's why he's so angry. (Which is, of course, a mask for a whole assortment of emotions.) He's also discovering that his attempts to protect himself emotionally (claiming he doesn't love me, breaking off the relationship prematurely) didn't do anything to protect him, and hurt him far more than helped.
> 
> *I told him when we broke up that I wasn't going to close the door on us getting back together, but if that was going to happen, he needed to start seeing a therapist and deal with his issues, because I need someone who can make a commitment*, not someone who has a compulsion to break up with me every 3-6 months. It's safe to assume that he's not seeing a therapist. Honestly, there's probably a <1% chance of that happening.
> 
> *It makes me sad for him. He really is a great guy, and he has a big heart, but he's letting his fear hold him prisoner.
> *
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I was about to bring up the bolded above. If he wanted to change, he knew therapy was needed or, if not, it was a deal-breaker. I remember how devastated you were. It took guts for you to change the flip-flop norm of the past. 

To me, he is letting outside things (extrinsic) rule his life and does not have an authentic self within (intrinsic) to live the life he would like. IMO: this is more than self-preservation--more like immaturity and lack of self worth?


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Do you really want to be with someone who has an out of control temper and drinking/smoking problems when things dont go his way? This is indicative of a larger psychological and addiction issue that is not healthy for any person. This goes way deeper than a lack of commitment issues. I would not even consider going back. RE doesnt sound healthy at all.


You know, I never saw this extreme of him when we were together, and I imagine this is what his friends meant when they said I made him a better person. And when I say he needs to work on his issues, I don't just mean commitment, I mean ALL of it, because I think it's all interconnected. And no, I don't want him back, not in this present state.

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## FeministInPink

sunsetmist said:


> I was about to bring up the bolded above. If he wanted to change, he knew therapy was needed or, if not, it was a deal-breaker. I remember how devastated you were. It took guts for you to change the flip-flop norm of the past.
> 
> To me, he is letting outside things (extrinsic) rule his life and does not have an authentic self within (intrinsic) to live the life he would like. IMO: this is more than self-preservation--more like immaturity and lack of self worth?


I think you hit the nail on the head with this, especially the 2nd paragraph. And that is the fundamental difference between he and I. I am happy the majority of the time, unless there is something external imposing pain on me, and I look at that situation and think, what can I do so this won't continue to cause me pain? Is there something I can do differently, or better, to improve this situation?

He doesn't think that way.

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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I told him when we broke up that I wasn't going to close the door on us getting back together


Errr, I would have, especially after some of the crap he's pulled on you. You shouldn't let his friends influence you to go see him either. If he wants to reconcile, the ball is on his court.

In the meantime, enjoy!



Lifescript said:


> Couldn’t sleep well last night and this will be very tough.
> We’ve been seeing each other for months and shared so many great moments.
> When we were talking last night in person she wanted to kiss me. “Please kiss me. I want you to kiss me.” She said. We did.
> Guess she thought that would solve things.
> I did say some things to her I regret. I became a bit agitated (triggers from past relationship).
> Feeling in the dumps.
> I feel like a failure. Gotta get out of this funk.
> I’ll be fine I know. Willl just take time.


You would have been a failure if you kept it up with that bimbo, sorry but that's what she is. 

By doing what you did, you have instead upped your chances for success in the future. You now know what to avoid.


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## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> You would have been a failure if you kept it up with that bimbo, sorry but that's what she is.
> .


She's not a bimbo. She just doesn't want to be locked down. They are a mismatch.

It may be easier sometimes to "blame" the other person when a mismatch causes you to break up. But it is not either person's fault. It is a matter of not being a match, that's all, not about blame or fault.

Sometimes it hurts when the other person won't change themselves to be what you hoped they would be, instead of what they are.

But with hindsight you usually see that you both found better matches with other people and are happy you didn't waste more of each other's time.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Errr, I would have, especially after some of the crap he's pulled on you. You shouldn't let his friends influence you to go see him either. If he wants to reconcile, the ball is on his court.
> 
> In the meantime, enjoy!


His friends fully respect and support my desire to not see him, especially now that they've finally had a chance to hear from me on what happened. 

Given how reclusive he's become, I wouldn't be surprised if they become more my friends than his, simply because I am better at keeping in touch with people.



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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> His friends fully respect and support my desire to not see him, especially now that they've finally had a chance to hear from me on what happened.
> 
> Given how reclusive he's become, *I wouldn't be surprised if they become more my friends than his*, simply because I am better at keeping in touch with people.


My on-off post divorce boyfriend, he had a few friends who I really clicked with, and we became FB friends.

I just the other day unfriended them. And him, too. Just because I knew keeping that little thread would make me tempted to reach out to the friends, but if I did so, I would not be totally honest in my intentions and although I would have loved to see them, I also would have inevitably asked about the ex bf. I also sometimes scanned their FB page and secretly I was hoping to see anything my ex bf was up to, maybe tagged on their page.

I honestly just wish him well, I'm not looking for what he is up to because I want him back or I want to know who he is seeing or anything like that. But I know he does not want me to remain friends with him *or* with his friends. He would have never said that to me, but I concluded it on my own and unfriended them all.

He wants a clean break (this time, finally) and I gave it to him by also breaking from his friends.

I would respond if any of them reached out to me, but I will not be reaching out to them or following them at all from now on. Same with his profile.

Every time I've tried to stay friends with the ex's friends, I always found myself still associating them with the ex and then I would be inquiring about him, thinking about him, etc. With some break ups that's no big deal, but with some it has to end and even end with the extended friends. Are you sure you would want to keep them as friends? Maybe after you are seeing someone else would be better. :laugh:


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## farsidejunky

I'm obviously not one of the singles, but I still keep up with this thread. 

I just wanted to say that you guys really have a great core of folks supporting each other here. This isn't a resource that everybody has. It would have been invaluable to me in my single days.

Take care, y'all. 

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## Faithful Wife

farsidejunky said:


> I'm obviously not one of the singles, but I still keep up with this thread.
> 
> I just wanted to say that you guys really have a great core of folks supporting each other here. This isn't a resource that everybody has. It would have been invaluable to me in my single days.
> 
> Take care, y'all.


Yes, it's awesome! Our singles posse is da best. :x


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> My on-off post divorce boyfriend, he had a few friends who I really clicked with, and we became FB friends.
> 
> I just the other day unfriended them. And him, too. Just because I knew keeping that little thread would make me tempted to reach out to the friends, but if I did so, I would not be totally honest in my intentions and although I would have loved to see them, I also would have inevitably asked about the ex bf. I also sometimes scanned their FB page and secretly I was hoping to see anything my ex bf was up to, maybe tagged on their page.
> 
> I honestly just wish him well, I'm not looking for what he is up to because I want him back or I want to know who he is seeing or anything like that. But I know he does not want me to remain friends with him *or* with his friends. He would have never said that to me, but I concluded it on my own and unfriended them all.
> 
> He wants a clean break (this time, finally) and I gave it to him by also breaking from his friends.
> 
> I would respond if any of them reached out to me, but I will not be reaching out to them or following them at all from now on. Same with his profile.
> 
> Every time I've tried to stay friends with the ex's friends, I always found myself still associating them with the ex and then I would be inquiring about him, thinking about him, etc. With some break ups that's no big deal, but with some it has to end and even end with the extended friends. Are you sure you would want to keep them as friends? Maybe after you are seeing someone else would be better.


I'm not really worried about any of that being an issue. As I said, I keep up with them more than he does, and he's never on Facebook anyway, so I wouldn't be reminded of him in this respect. They are good people, and we mutually enjoy the other's company without RE.

I have been in this position once before, in college, when an XBF's friend group decided they wanted to keep me, despite the breakup. It was weird initially, seeing him on the regular, but ultimately it was an excellent decision, as that group became my core group of friends in college (one of whom became my best friend), and I'm still close with them now. And because of that, that particular XBF and I became actual friends. I don't see him much these days, even though we are in the same city, because we are both busy people, but I know he's someone I will always be able to count on.

Despite everything, I do hope that someday RE and I can be friends. He is a good guy, one with a lot of issues that make him a poor choice as a long-term partner, but someone who has a lot of qualities to be a good friend. It's not the right time for that, obviously, but somewhere along the line, maybe it will be possible.

At any rate, I don't automatically associate them with him, and I think that's partially because I have socialized with them, without RE, during the course of the relationship, and I've developed friendships with them separate from him. When I divorced, there were a few of his family members who maintained a relationship with me after the split, because I had taken the time to develop these relationships apart from my XH. 

I guess my point is that if I continue friendships with an ex's friend or family, it's because I have grown an actual relationship separate from my ex with the person, not because I want to maintain a connection with an ex.

People who care about you and your well-being, and whom you connect with, are valuable, and I don't see the sense in tossing people I care about (and who care about me) because of someone else's bad choices.

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## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> She's not a bimbo. She just doesn't want to be locked down. They are a mismatch.
> 
> It may be easier sometimes to "blame" the other person when a mismatch causes you to break up. But it is not either person's fault. It is a matter of not being a match, that's all, not about blame or fault.
> 
> Sometimes it hurts when the other person won't change themselves to be what you hoped they would be, instead of what they are.
> 
> But with hindsight you usually see that you both found better matches with other people and are happy you didn't waste more of each other's time.


She is to me, if she doesn't want to be locked down there's so many other better ways to live an honest single lifestyle than leading someone on with ILUs and crap. Even as bad as I was in my single years I never threw the L word around. So yeah, bimbo to me, and Lifescript can do better.


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## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> I'm not really worried about any of that being an issue. As I said, I keep up with them more than he does, and he's never on Facebook anyway, so I wouldn't be reminded of him in this respect. They are good people, and we mutually enjoy the other's company without RE.
> 
> I have been in this position once before, in college, when an XBF's friend group decided they wanted to keep me, despite the breakup. It was weird initially, seeing him on the regular, but ultimately it was an excellent decision, as that group became my core group of friends in college (one of whom became my best friend), and I'm still close with them now. And because of that, that particular XBF and I became actual friends. I don't see him much these days, even though we are in the same city, because we are both busy people, but I know he's someone I will always be able to count on.
> 
> Despite everything, I do hope that someday RE and I can be friends. He is a good guy, one with a lot of issues that make him a poor choice as a long-term partner, but someone who has a lot of qualities to be a good friend. It's not the right time for that, obviously, but somewhere along the line, maybe it will be possible.
> 
> At any rate, I don't automatically associate them with him, and I think that's partially because I have socialized with them, without RE, during the course of the relationship, and I've developed friendships with them separate from him. When I divorced, there were a few of his family members who maintained a relationship with me after the split, because I had taken the time to develop these relationships apart from my XH.
> 
> I guess my point is that if I continue friendships with an ex's friend or family, it's because I have grown an actual relationship separate from my ex with the person, not because I want to maintain a connection with an ex.
> 
> People who care about you and your well-being, and whom you connect with, are valuable, and I don't see the sense in tossing people I care about (and who care about me) because of someone else's bad choices.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I think staying in touch is tricky and I’d only recommend it if you are truly over the ex.


----------



## Lifescript

RandomDude said:


> She is to me, if she doesn't want to be locked down there's so many other better ways to live an honest single lifestyle than leading someone on with ILUs and crap. Even as bad as I was in my single years I never threw the L word around. So yeah, bimbo to me, and Lifescript can do better.




She’s definitely being sending mixed signals and showed much more interest in me than I in her initially. I thought to myself wow this woman really likes me. And then she was there for in tough situations and I guess this is how we get trapped in this situations. Because they are not all bad and they have good qualities too . It’s just that the bad outweighs the good and in some cases more glaring than others. 

She said “I Don’t want to cave and do what you want it’s to make you happy.” 

So she is basically seeing this from a “I’m my own person and can make my own decisions without being controlled kind of view.” 

Whoever thinks this way needs to be single. Respecting boundaries is not being controlled and whoever thinks that has some unresolved issue.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> I think staying in touch is tricky and I’d only recommend it if you are truly over the ex.


Which is why they all know that if he is in attendance for any gathering, I will not be, until that point in time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Always give defiant people what they say they want, Script.


Lifescript said:


> She’s definitely being sending mixed signals and showed much more interest in me than I in her initially. I thought to myself wow this woman really likes me. And then she was there for in tough situations and I guess this is how we get trapped in this situations. Because they are not all bad and they have good qualities too . It’s just that the bad outweighs the good and in some cases more glaring than others.
> 
> She said “I Don’t want to cave and do what you want it’s to make you happy.”
> 
> So she is basically seeing this from a “I’m my own person and can make my own decisions without being controlled kind of view.”
> 
> Whoever thinks this way needs to be single. Respecting boundaries is not being controlled and whoever thinks that has some unresolved issue.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

“We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”

She texted this. 

Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways. 

I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage. 

So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not. 

Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this: 

Don’t text with guys. 

Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants. 

Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them. 

Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested. 

She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries. 

When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.


----------



## Livvie

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.


Here's my opinion: none of that is too much to ask. I'd ask that of a man I was in a relationship with! 

I'm not interested in being with a man who texts with women, communicates and is friends on social media with and refuses to block women who are interested in him and want to **** him!! And it doesn't work for me if he's intentionally going to social events he knows an ex will be at--the way you were describing.

NONE of that would work for me. No thank you!!! Ick.

I think you have boundaries that are just fine. 

You and this woman are not right for each other. Let her go find a man who accepts this ****ing crap stuff, and you go find a woman who doesn't have these ties to other men. They DO exist! A woman free and clear.


----------



## Lifescript

Livvie said:


> Here's my opinion: none of that is too much to ask. I'd ask that of a man I was in a relationship with!
> 
> I'm not interested in being with a man who texts with women, communicates and is friends on social media with and refuses to block women who are interested in him and want to **** him!! And it doesn't work for me if he's intentionally going to social events he knows an ex will be at--the way you were describing.
> 
> NONE of that would work for me. No thank you!!! Ick.
> 
> I think you have boundaries that are just fine.
> 
> You and this woman are not right for each other. Let her go find a man who accepts this ****ing crap stuff, and you go find a woman who doesn't have these ties to other men. They DO exist! A woman free and clear.




Thanks Livvie. 

Just wanted to see if maybe I’m going overboard with some of the boundaries. I can see some women saying that it’s ok to have guys on social media even if they are interested in them because they are not actually doing anything with them. 

I understand we live in a different world where women have more freedom (which is great). When she said she was going out with her sister I encouraged it and was genuinely happy she was spending some time apart from me. 

Sometimes I feel my cultural beliefs crash with the thinking and how many people see things nowadays. Seems like us guys who have these boundaries end up being labeled as controlling when that is not the case. We just know what we will accept and what we won’t.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.




Dude...a woman who would want to do these things in the first place should be a deal breaker for you. **** arguing about it. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion. Now you’re questioning your own morals. Let it go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> *So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not. *
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.


Why does it matter what others think about your boundaries? They are your boundaries and you are entitled to them. You need to find someone compatible who will respect those boundaries. Your (Ex) gf did not and that's all there is to it. She's not evil. She's not a *****. She's not some she-demon. She's just NOT compatible with you. Save yourself some time and heartache in the future and talk about boundaries early on with potential partners. If they disagree with you, then move on quickly. You will not be compatible for a long term relationship. 
@Lifescript, I get the feeling you are hung up with this woman because she's very attractive. Are you worried you will not find someone as attractive as her who will also agree to your boundaries?


----------



## Laurentium

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”


Yeah, people who don't like your boundaries will always say "insecure". I think your boundaries are reasonable and are the same as I would have. *However,* it is important to express them in an appropriate tone. 
Less like "you're not allowed to do X" and more like "I am looking for a relationship where the partners don't do X". Or "I don't do X, and I don't think I could be with someone who's OK with doing X". It's just a nicer way to say the same thing.


----------



## Lifescript

Elizabeth001 said:


> Dude...a woman who would want to do these things in the first place should be a deal breaker for you. **** arguing about it. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion. Now you’re questioning your own morals. Let it go.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Right. Just putting it out there to see if I was going a bit overboard on the IG issue. Since I’ve heard many women argue in my place of work that is common for people to have followers of opposite sex and it doesn’t mean anything or shouldn’t be an issue if they are not talking to them.


----------



## Lifescript

Lila said:


> Why does it matter what others think about your boundaries? They are your boundaries and you are entitled to them. You need to find someone compatible who will respect those boundaries. Your (Ex) gf did not and that's all there is to it. She's not evil. She's not a *****. She's not some she-demon. She's just NOT compatible with you. Save yourself some time and heartache in the future and talk about boundaries early on with potential partners. If they disagree with you, then move on quickly. You will not be compatible for a long term relationship.
> 
> 
> @Lifescript, I get the feeling you are hung up with this woman because she's very attractive. Are you worried you will not find someone as attractive as her who will also agree to your boundaries?




They are my boundaries and I get that but and it’s maybe because I’m in the fog of this situation, couldn’t there be boundaries one has that are too strict and therefore not easy for others to respect? I’m not talking about these boundaries I’ve talked about. They are fine. But other stuff. 

Like if a man says, “I don’t want you going out with your girlfriends at night”. I can see why that could be excessive. 

I’m not worried that I won’t find another attractive woman. That’s not it. I honestly feel like she was also a really good friend to me (she was on my side and supported me through some rough stuff including all these issues at work). I thought she was the one despite these issues. Part of me felt like because she always said and showed she loved me at the beginning that I could change her. That she had made mistakes in the past but she would see she had a chance of a new start with me. 

I miss all the little things about her. Not just her looks.


----------



## Lifescript

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, people who don't like your boundaries will always say "insecure". I think your boundaries are reasonable and are the same as I would have. *However,* it is important to express them in an appropriate tone.
> 
> Less like "you're not allowed to do X" and more like "I am looking for a relationship where the partners don't do X". Or "I don't do X, and I don't think I could be with someone who's OK with doing X". It's just a nicer way to say the same thing.




Yes. And looking back when we talked I got agitated and expressed my boundaries In not the best way. I could have said it differently. Like you suggested.


----------



## Lila

Lifescript said:


> They are my boundaries and I get that but and it’s maybe because I’m in the fog of this situation, couldn’t there be boundaries one has that are too strict and therefore not easy for others to respect? I’m not talking about these boundaries I’ve talked about. They are fine. But other stuff.


 I don't know if anyone here can tell you whether your boundaries are over the top or not. I feel like that's such an individual thing. There are certain boundaries you mentioned that would never fly with me. Doesn't mean your boundaries are out of line for all. They just don't fit in with my approach to life. We wouldn't be compatible without some compromise.

I think the only way you'll know if they are too "strict" is to test them out on somene else. If you keep getting the same response, then you either have to change your expectations or focus on finding the kind of woman that would accept your boundaries, ykwim?


----------



## Lifescript

Lila said:


> I don't know if anyone here can tell you whether your boundaries are over the top or not. I feel like that's such an individual thing. There are certain boundaries you mentioned that would never fly with me. Doesn't mean your boundaries are out of line for all. They just don't fit in with my approach to life. We wouldn't be compatible without some compromise.
> 
> I think the only way you'll know if they are too "strict" is to test them out on somene else. If you keep getting the same response, then you either have to change your expectations or focus on finding the kind of woman that would accept your boundaries, ykwim?




Which boundaries would not fly with you?


----------



## Lila

Lifescript said:


> Which boundaries would not fly with you?


The absolute non starter for me would be: 

"Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.​"

I feel like this is allowing the ex to dictate your life. I personally wouldn't stop visiting a particular place or stop participating in my hobbies/recreational activities for fear of running into an ex. They're an ex for a reason. 

As far as the other boundaries you described....

The not texting with guys is something you need to work out prior to starting a new relationship. For some it's acceptable. For other's it is not. I have also found that this is age dependent. Younger people are much more lax on this one than older folks. Just my experience. 

The blocking guys on social media who are interested in her is IMHO, unrealistic. I mean, this IS the price for dating a beautiful woman. She's going to get a lot of attention from other men. And given the chance, they would absolutely want to date her. She's beautiful! She would have to block most if not every man on social media. My sister is drop dead gorgeous. She has genuinely great guy friends but there's no doubt they would jump at the chance to 'get into her pants". That's the nature of the beast. She will not be kept in a gilded cage. Having said that, she doesn't encourage flirtation. She accepts all compliments but she tends to keep conversations friendly but not flirty. If your gf is straight up flirting, then you have a problem. 

So a) is your girlfriend younger-ish? and b) does she encourage flirtatious conversations with her male friends?


----------



## Lifescript

Lila said:


> The absolute non starter for me would be:
> 
> 
> 
> "Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.​"
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like this is allowing the ex to dictate your life. I personally wouldn't stop visiting a particular place or stop participating in my hobbies/recreational activities for fear of running into an ex. They're an ex for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the other boundaries you described....
> 
> 
> 
> The not texting with guys is something you need to work out prior to starting a new relationship. For some it's acceptable. For other's it is not. I have also found that this is age dependent. Younger people are much more lax on this one than older folks. Just my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> The blocking guys on social media who are interested in her is IMHO, unrealistic. I mean, this IS the price for dating a beautiful woman. She's going to get a lot of attention from other men. And given the chance, they would absolutely want to date her. She's beautiful! She would have to block most if not every man on social media. My sister is drop dead gorgeous. She has genuinely great guy friends but there's no doubt they would jump at the chance to 'get into her pants". That's the nature of the beast. She will not be kept in a gilded cage. Having said that, she doesn't encourage flirtation. She accepts all compliments but she tends to keep conversations friendly but not flirty. If your gf is straight up flirting, then you have a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> So a) is your girlfriend younger-ish? and b) does she encourage flirtatious conversations with her male friends?




Some clarifications because reading this again I can see why it seems unrealistic. 

I’m talking about going to going to see this singer play. Her ex plays with the band. So if she goes to see the band play, she will most likely than not bump into him. I’m not saying don’t go to a restaurant because the ex may be there. But going to see the band guarantees she will see the ex and she says she doesn’t understand why she has to stop seeing this band which she loves. She and her ex hit it off after he invited her out to go see them one night. She hasn’t seen this band play in years so I don’t get the resistance and the back and forth about this. 

I believe it’s hard to be friends with a woman especially if she’s beautiful. Usually guys act like friends just waiting for a chance to make a move. So I prefer no texting with guys unless is a guy friend she has that I know and also friends with. 

When I say block guys on social media who are interested I mean guys who have already made a move and been turned down, told she’s taken and still are hitting her up to see if they get lucky. I’m not asking her to block all guys. 

She is 30.


----------



## sunsetmist

I'm thinking this would be the first of many disagreements should you stay together. Either y'all are incompatible or she is testing you. You thought y'all were closer than it now seems. Your questioning your self to such an extreme seems more insecure than balanced to me. Take some deep, deep breaths and give yourself some space.


----------



## 2&out

My opinion is not the popular one. I think your "rules" boarder on redicules. Your going to decide who I can communicate and be friends with ? You've got to be kidding me. Talk about a red flag.. that is a monster one. 

You appear to me to be a very untrusting and suspicious person. Frankly I think she just dodged a bullet. We read on here regularly about a spouse who constantly questions their partners actions, motives, friends, commitment, etc.. - and posters are quick to label them as insecure, controlling, and tell them to run. I see little difference here. This lady isn't/wasn't a good match for you. Nothing wrong with that. Move on.

“We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.” This sounds pretty much right on the money to me. Wanting or expecting someone to avoid going places, doing things, or seeing other friends because an ex or previous pursuer might be there is over the top IMHO. Until your ready to trust someone I would agree your not ready for a relationship.


----------



## Faithful Wife

@Lifescript your situation is a good one for discussion because it hits people differently.

Though I know you are hurting and wanted to offer ... support or whatever can be offered here in words. I know it hurts when things end, even if everything wasn’t perfect. My heart is broken at the end of every relationship because I know I’ll never get to do those special things I loved to do with that person, the little life we built together (even just sexually and emotionally) will be dashed away. I don’t want you to think you need to just “snap out of” this. This is hard and will hurt for a bit of time. Take care of yourself.

I hope you’ve limited contact with her, or gone NC. Even though I’m never able to do that myself....but we should do that. It makes the hurt stop sooner.


----------



## Bananapeel

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.


First off, I personally am thrilled you broke up with her and think it was a great move on your part since you two are not compatible. She can't see things from your perspective or doesn't care enough to worry about how you feel, so she's a bad match for you. 

But you should recognize that there is also truth in what she is saying. You are insecure...don't hide from it. In future relationships address these problems directly and you'll be better off.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Livvie said:


> Here's my opinion: none of that is too much to ask. I'd ask that of a man I was in a relationship with!
> 
> I'm not interested in being with a man who texts with women, communicates and is friends on social media with and refuses to block women who are interested in him and want to **** him!! And it doesn't work for me if he's intentionally going to social events he knows an ex will be at--the way you were describing.
> 
> NONE of that would work for me. No thank you!!! Ick.
> 
> I think you have boundaries that are just fine.
> 
> You and this woman are not right for each other. Let her go find a man who accepts this ****ing crap stuff, and you go find a woman who doesn't have these ties to other men. They DO exist! A woman free and clear.


Quoting for agreement. 

In our current time of technology and social media, my feeling is that you HAVE to have boundaries when it comes to communications with the opposite sex. People who go on the defensive touting about trust are clueless (usually younger) and clearly have never been screwed over in this regard. Its just TOO EASY. Most of these things should be no brainer common sense, and should just be automatic, but so often are not. 
You cant MAKE people respect your boundaries... you can only enforce them by not staying in the relationship if they are continually crossed.


----------



## Affaircare

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.


Let me interpret for you: "I want to do what I want to do, and I don't want to have to consider a partner." She is the one who is not ready for a relationship, because relationships mean RELATING...and that means taking your partner into consideration. If you are dating...you think about how it might impact them and decide if it's a dealbreaker kind of thing. If you are exclusive...you consider how it might impact them and the fact that you made a promise to be exclusive TO THEM. If you are engaged/committed/living together...you consider how it would impact them and actively put a protection around them and the relationship even from your own weaknesses. And if you're married...heck you consider your partner in every single thing you do. How will this choice impact them? What is my part in this...my weakness? What is healthy and what is not? What is relating and sharing with my partner and only my partner (and not every other breathing person on the planet)? LOL

She doesn't want to relate. @Lifescript, every choice has both a cost and a benefit. She wants the benefit of a steady, devoted boyfriend without paying the cost, which is going ONLY TO THE BOYFRIEND for attention, flirting, and thrills. The price of exclusivity is exactly that--cutting off everyone else. She is not willing to cut off everyone else, and thus, she is not ready to relate. See? 



> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.


Okay, so just a small "note to self"-- here is the way you tell the difference between boundaries and controlling. It's pretty easy really! Boundaries are about YOU...controlling is about THEM. My boundary is that I won't be with someone who has a character pattern of being dishonest and untrustworthy. Now... I'm not telling anyone what to do or how to act, I'm just saying this is my line for me: if someone demonstrates to me that they are consistently dishonest and untrustworthy, I choose to "next" them. They are completely free to choose to be honest or dishonest. But what they CAN NOT DO is choose for me whether I stay with them or not! My boundary is about ME for myself. 

Controlling would be if I tried to tell someone I wanted to be with "Hey you! You can not lie or hide things or be untransparent. You can not keep secrets from me," and then I tried to manipulate the situation so that I was snooping on them to see if they're lying or not. See, in this example, they are not free to choose whatever they want to be...I'm trying to force them to be what I want, and that is controlling. 

See the difference?



> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.


So I get why you are asking, because at this point you can't see clearly--it's like you can't see the forest for the trees, and you are second-guessing yourself. So on one hand, I will offer my opinion that the types of things you are asking for are not unreasonable. However I do think the WAY you're asking indicates control and not boundaries. So let's go over them one by one and digest them.

Overall, you are asking for whoever you are with to be exclusive to you. You want them to act OF THEIR OWN ACCORD to protect you and protect the relationship by actively not engaging exes and flirting with others. In and of itself, this is not "bad" but is it a request or a demand? If it's a demand and the other person doesn't have the right to say "no" then you are forcing someone to be who you want (rather than who they are) and you are controlling. 

*Don’t text with guys. * Can you see how this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something? That's controlling. To make this a boundary, keep it focused on YOU and what YOU will do: "I won't be with a girl who sees no problem texting with a bunch of other guys once we are exclusive. I only will accept someone who stops texting other men voluntarily because I'm her priority." 

*Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants. * Can you see how this is also not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something? That's controlling. So again, keep the focus on YOU. Envision a fence around you and you are describing what it takes to get past that fence to get close to you: "I won't move to exclusivity with a girl who stays in contact with guys who have made their intentions clear and she doesn't put them immediately in their place FIRMLY." Look, we all know that guys will be guys and you can't stop them. And girls sometimes just don't think all the guy wants is in her pants. But once there is even a clue that he's heading there, if she doesn't very firmly put a full and immediate stop to it, tell him off, tell you, and end contact, then that means she kind of likes it and wants to continue. She's not protecting you or the relationship...so let her go. The boundary is about YOU...not about "making her ____."

*Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.* Yep--this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something--so this is controlling too. You can't tel her where to go, when to go, or who to see...not even once you're married! Not ever! But what you CAN do is say that you won't get serious with a girl who doesn't take those kinds of places off her "go to" list. Ideally you might say "I won't even consider a girl who purposely "on accident" keeps her ex involved in her life." See how that is about YOU? You are saying what YOU will do...not her. She's free to choose to keep the ex involved or not, but if she does choose that--you won't touch it with a ten foot pole!

*Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested. * Are you getting the hang of this? Can you see how this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to give her a rule she has to live by? That's force, and force is controlling. Now...you may not be a "forceful" kind of guy, but force here just means that you aren't giving her the option to choose for herself but rather you are trying to make her do what you think she should do! See, it's reasonable to say "I do not choose to get intimately close with someone who choose to stay friends on social media with other men and their exes" because you know as well as I do that if you do that, you're increasing the chances of being cheated on and hurt. You are talking about YOU. But she is free to do whatever she wants. If she wants to be the kind of girl who stays friend on social media with a bunch of men, and flirt with them and get her ego kibbles, hey that's her choice--it's who SHE is. But your boundary is that you want nothing to do with someone who is like that. YOU want someone who is faithful, true, and exclusive. 

You know my definition of fidelity, right? "Giving 100% of your affection, loyalty and companionship to your spouse--the one to whom you made a promise." Now there are a variety of levels of commitment during the dating process, but at some point "I love yous" are exchanged, promises of exclusivity are made, etc. So although 100% is due after marriage vows are stated...I think it's reasonable to at minimum see the ability to give 100% during the dating process. That is to say, you should be able to see in the person that they are capable of being faithful, exclusive and committed. THAT is what all of your rules stated above are about: show me through these kinds of actions that I get all your affection and no one else does...show me that I get all of your loyalty and you aren't loyal to anyone else...show me that you will give all of your closeness and friendship to only me. THAT IS REASONABLE!! You should be able to see they are able to do that even before your married. 

Okay? Does that help a bit?


----------



## sunsetmist

Lots of time and effort involved in Cindy's answer. Wise, wise woman...


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.




I find this controlling and think she dodged a bullet. You’re controlling. I would never put up with the above demands ... NEVER.


----------



## 269370

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”
> 
> She texted this.
> 
> Days before I had told her I wasn’t happy with her accepting an IG invite from a guy she used to work with (the one that showed her a condom) and was hitting on her when they worked together. She even told me when he sent her the invite. I said you know what he wants so I wouldn’t accept. She accepted anyways.
> 
> I’ve been reading about boundaries vs controlling. I don’t want to make mistakes in the future. I have insecurity issues? Not sure is that or that the person I’m with talking or not being able to shut down men trigger me because of what happened in my marriage.
> 
> So I ask you guys (want to know what the women here think about this but also the men) and I know that this is different in all relationships and both partners can agree to what they are ok or not.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for. What would you say if your partner tells you this:
> 
> Don’t text with guys.
> 
> Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants.
> 
> Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.
> 
> Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested.
> 
> She told me the way I asl for these things come off as controlling and macho. I can wise up on how I talk about this boundaries.
> 
> When I told her if she goes to this event today we are done she thought that was very rude and macho of me. She thinks I to have her in a cage.



I hate generalising but from what you are describing, with this type, the less you give a ****, the more she will cling to you. Ignore her and then expect questions like ‘do you still love me?’

And the better you treat her and the more you care for her, the more she will feel you are ‘controlling’ her. You really have two options: stop caring (and that means letting her go and do whatever she wants) and just see her as a fb. Or break up.
She obviously isn’t ready for a committed relationship with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

@Lifescript I think @Affaircare hit the nail on the head with her analysis, and shows why several (female) posters here found your "boundaries" to be controlling, even though they all agreed that this woman's behavior was bad, and encouraged you to drop her.

Personally, I would find these boundaries extreme, because I have opposite sex platonic friends--my best friend happens to be a guy. Ironically, while I couldn't abide by your boundaries, I am very trustworthy and fidelity is of the utmost importance to me, and as such I have strong personal boundaries for myself when I am in a relationship. My boyfriend is my number one. But I'm not going to give up half my social circle/life because he's insecure.

You felt the need to impose these boundaries on her because her previous and continued behavior showed that she wasn't trustworthy, and you questioned her ability to be faithful. In an attempt to make her be more trustworthy and faithful, you tried to impose boundaries--you tried to control her behavior and control the relationship. It also tells her that you don't think she's competent enough to make her own decisions. Do you see how this is controlling?

Now, here's the real question: why do you want to be with someone who you need to control in order for them to be a good partner to you? Why did you choose someone like this? Wouldn't it make more sense, wouldn't it be easier to choose a woman with clear, strong boundaries of her own, so you don't have to create boundaries for her? Someone whose natural behavior, of her own free will, is in sync with your expectations? I think you need to take this inquiry farther and look at your picker, and ask yourself why you would choose a woman like your recent girlfriend, who was such a clear mis-match in this respect.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

I wasn’t following Life’s story before now....but if I’m reading it correctly, she was married at the time they met.

This is about the most difficult way to try to begin a relationship possible. And it should be fairly common knowledge that divorcing/still married people are a mess. They have too much to go through still. It’s one thing to date one, another thing to try to get them into a committed relationship with you.

Gosh, I’m 3 years out and I’m certainly not ready for a serious commitment. I feel good that I’m just ready to be in love again. That’s huge progress!
@Lifescript I hope you’re hanging in there....


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## 269370

Lifescript said:


> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.”



To me, this part says everything about her character. 
One thing is to not wanting or not be ready to be committed to a relationship and SAYING SO beforehand, but quite another thing is to pretend to be in a relationship (or lead someone on) but then not actually committing to it AND blame shift it onto the other person. This is classic immature, hypocritical and entitled behaviour (wanting all the benefits of a relationship yet not taking any responsibility for it) - there are no two ways that you can look at it that i can see. She revealed herself with that condescending text.
Be careful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> @Lifescript I think @Affaircare hit the nail on the head with her analysis, and shows why several (female) posters here found your "boundaries" to be controlling, even though they all agreed that this woman's behavior was bad, and encouraged you to drop her.
> 
> Personally, I would find these boundaries extreme, because I have opposite sex platonic friends--my best friend happens to be a guy. Ironically, while I couldn't abide by your boundaries, I am very trustworthy and fidelity is of the utmost importance to me, and as such I have strong personal boundaries for myself when I am in a relationship. My boyfriend is my number one. But I'm not going to give up half my social circle/life because he's insecure.
> 
> You felt the need to impose these boundaries on her because her previous and continued behavior showed that she wasn't trustworthy, and you questioned her ability to be faithful. In an attempt to make her be more trustworthy and faithful, you tried to impose boundaries--you tried to control her behavior and control the relationship. It also tells her that you don't think she's competent enough to make her own decisions. Do you see how this is controlling?
> 
> Now, here's the real question: why do you want to be with someone who you need to control in order for them to be a good partner to you? Why did you choose someone like this? Wouldn't it make more sense, wouldn't it be easier to choose a woman with clear, strong boundaries of her own, so you don't have to create boundaries for her? Someone whose natural behavior, of her own free will, is in sync with your expectations? I think you need to take this inquiry farther and look at your picker, and ask yourself why you would choose a woman like your recent girlfriend, who was such a clear mis-match in this respect.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I agree with you. I would find Lifescript's list undoeble. I would call controlling, because in my case, I would not do anything to cause distrust. I realize it was different for this woman because of her previous actions but someone mentioned she was still married when he started seeing her. I think that speaks alot to the character of Lifescript if that is true. Whether they are beautiful or not, married is married. Maybe LS likes the unattainable (married and beautiful)?? 

I am glad they broke up because it sounds unhealthy all around. Seems like both people need to work on alot before they venture into relationship territory again.


----------



## Lifescript

2&out said:


> My opinion is not the popular one. I think your "rules" boarder on redicules. Your going to decide who I can communicate and be friends with ? You've got to be kidding me. Talk about a red flag.. that is a monster one.
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to me to be a very untrusting and suspicious person. Frankly I think she just dodged a bullet. We read on here regularly about a spouse who constantly questions their partners actions, motives, friends, commitment, etc.. - and posters are quick to label them as insecure, controlling, and tell them to run. I see little difference here. This lady isn't/wasn't a good match for you. Nothing wrong with that. Move on.
> 
> 
> 
> “We could have been fine if you weren’t so controlling about guys. You are not ready for a relationship, you are insecure and you need to work on that.” This sounds pretty much right on the money to me. Wanting or expecting someone to avoid going places, doing things, or seeing other friends because an ex or previous pursuer might be there is over the top IMHO. Until your ready to trust someone I would agree your not ready for a relationship.



Different opinions are welcomed and reading your post I can see why would would think that. I’m dealing with a person who had lied to me before so that’s where the lack of trust comes from. Now stepping back I can see how some of my actions can be seen as red flags and seem controlling. 

Bottom line is either I trust her or not. She has done stuff to regain my trust like telling me when someone from her past texted her recently and then blocked him. 

My boundaries would be different if dealing with a different women who have have not done anything to break my trust. 

Do I acknowledge how my boundaries can be seen as over the top. The question is and this is probably where I went wrong, should one be in a relationship with someone who make you feel like you need to set so stringent boundaries. Most will say no.


----------



## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> First off, I personally am thrilled you broke up with her and think it was a great move on your part since you two are not compatible. She can't see things from your perspective or doesn't care enough to worry about how you feel, so she's a bad match for you.
> 
> 
> 
> But you should recognize that there is also truth in what she is saying. You are insecure...don't hide from it. In future relationships address these problems directly and you'll be better off.




Yep. Been doing a lot of thinking and seeing how things I’ve done and said can be seen as insecurity and even turn her off. Bottom line is if she wants to cheat on me she will. Nothing I can do. I can’t stop her from cheating so would have been best to not express concern about that and avoid looking insecure and instead just focus on my purpose as a man in life and having fun whenever we are together. I also could have done a better job at telling her what I was ok and not ok with. To avoid it coming off as demands instead of putting out there how I felt about the situation.


----------



## Lifescript

3Xnocharm said:


> Quoting for agreement.
> 
> In our current time of technology and social media, my feeling is that you HAVE to have boundaries when it comes to communications with the opposite sex. People who go on the defensive touting about trust are clueless (usually younger) and clearly have never been screwed over in this regard. Its just TOO EASY. Most of these things should be no brainer common sense, and should just be automatic, but so often are not.
> You cant MAKE people respect your boundaries... you can only enforce them by not staying in the relationship if they are continually crossed.




3X,

If your partner tells you of a coworker that has expressed interest and there’s a talk about setting boundaries with such coworker to let her know he’s not available. Would you be angry/disappointed if you find out that your partner accepted a social media invite from such person? 

This was one of the issues we had. I told her She shouldn’t have accepted the invite since she knows she will take it as an opportunity to try to get in her pants. I asked her to unfriend the guy.


----------



## Lifescript

Ms. Hawaii said:


> I find this controlling and think she dodged a bullet. You’re controlling. I would never put up with the above demands ... NEVER.




Ok. Appreciate the honesty.


----------



## Lifescript

Affaircare said:


> Let me interpret for you: "I want to do what I want to do, and I don't want to have to consider a partner." She is the one who is not ready for a relationship, because relationships mean RELATING...and that means taking your partner into consideration. If you are dating...you think about how it might impact them and decide if it's a dealbreaker kind of thing. If you are exclusive...you consider how it might impact them and the fact that you made a promise to be exclusive TO THEM. If you are engaged/committed/living together...you consider how it would impact them and actively put a protection around them and the relationship even from your own weaknesses. And if you're married...heck you consider your partner in every single thing you do. How will this choice impact them? What is my part in this...my weakness? What is healthy and what is not? What is relating and sharing with my partner and only my partner (and not every other breathing person on the planet)? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't want to relate. @Lifescript, every choice has both a cost and a benefit. She wants the benefit of a steady, devoted boyfriend without paying the cost, which is going ONLY TO THE BOYFRIEND for attention, flirting, and thrills. The price of exclusivity is exactly that--cutting off everyone else. She is not willing to cut off everyone else, and thus, she is not ready to relate. See?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so just a small "note to self"-- here is the way you tell the difference between boundaries and controlling. It's pretty easy really! Boundaries are about YOU...controlling is about THEM. My boundary is that I won't be with someone who has a character pattern of being dishonest and untrustworthy. Now... I'm not telling anyone what to do or how to act, I'm just saying this is my line for me: if someone demonstrates to me that they are consistently dishonest and untrustworthy, I choose to "next" them. They are completely free to choose to be honest or dishonest. But what they CAN NOT DO is choose for me whether I stay with them or not! My boundary is about ME for myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Controlling would be if I tried to tell someone I wanted to be with "Hey you! You can not lie or hide things or be untransparent. You can not keep secrets from me," and then I tried to manipulate the situation so that I was snooping on them to see if they're lying or not. See, in this example, they are not free to choose whatever they want to be...I'm trying to force them to be what I want, and that is controlling.
> 
> 
> 
> See the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I get why you are asking, because at this point you can't see clearly--it's like you can't see the forest for the trees, and you are second-guessing yourself. So on one hand, I will offer my opinion that the types of things you are asking for are not unreasonable. However I do think the WAY you're asking indicates control and not boundaries. So let's go over them one by one and digest them.
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, you are asking for whoever you are with to be exclusive to you. You want them to act OF THEIR OWN ACCORD to protect you and protect the relationship by actively not engaging exes and flirting with others. In and of itself, this is not "bad" but is it a request or a demand? If it's a demand and the other person doesn't have the right to say "no" then you are forcing someone to be who you want (rather than who they are) and you are controlling.
> 
> 
> 
> *Don’t text with guys. * Can you see how this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something? That's controlling. To make this a boundary, keep it focused on YOU and what YOU will do: "I won't be with a girl who sees no problem texting with a bunch of other guys once we are exclusive. I only will accept someone who stops texting other men voluntarily because I'm her priority."
> 
> 
> 
> *Block ones you know won’t leave you alone and will just keep after you hoping they get in your pants. * Can you see how this is also not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something? That's controlling. So again, keep the focus on YOU. Envision a fence around you and you are describing what it takes to get past that fence to get close to you: "I won't move to exclusivity with a girl who stays in contact with guys who have made their intentions clear and she doesn't put them immediately in their place FIRMLY." Look, we all know that guys will be guys and you can't stop them. And girls sometimes just don't think all the guy wants is in her pants. But once there is even a clue that he's heading there, if she doesn't very firmly put a full and immediate stop to it, tell him off, tell you, and end contact, then that means she kind of likes it and wants to continue. She's not protecting you or the relationship...so let her go. The boundary is about YOU...not about "making her ____."
> 
> 
> 
> *Don’t go to places where you can see one of your exes. If you bump into one that’s fine an inevitable but don’t go to places where most likely then not you will bump into them.* Yep--this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to make her do something--so this is controlling too. You can't tel her where to go, when to go, or who to see...not even once you're married! Not ever! But what you CAN do is say that you won't get serious with a girl who doesn't take those kinds of places off her "go to" list. Ideally you might say "I won't even consider a girl who purposely "on accident" keeps her ex involved in her life." See how that is about YOU? You are saying what YOU will do...not her. She's free to choose to keep the ex involved or not, but if she does choose that--you won't touch it with a ten foot pole!
> 
> 
> 
> *Don’t be friends on social media with people who are trying to take you out and are interested. * Are you getting the hang of this? Can you see how this is not a rule about "you" and what you will and will not accept in a partner, but rather an attempt to give her a rule she has to live by? That's force, and force is controlling. Now...you may not be a "forceful" kind of guy, but force here just means that you aren't giving her the option to choose for herself but rather you are trying to make her do what you think she should do! See, it's reasonable to say "I do not choose to get intimately close with someone who choose to stay friends on social media with other men and their exes" because you know as well as I do that if you do that, you're increasing the chances of being cheated on and hurt. You are talking about YOU. But she is free to do whatever she wants. If she wants to be the kind of girl who stays friend on social media with a bunch of men, and flirt with them and get her ego kibbles, hey that's her choice--it's who SHE is. But your boundary is that you want nothing to do with someone who is like that. YOU want someone who is faithful, true, and exclusive.
> 
> 
> 
> You know my definition of fidelity, right? "Giving 100% of your affection, loyalty and companionship to your spouse--the one to whom you made a promise." Now there are a variety of levels of commitment during the dating process, but at some point "I love yous" are exchanged, promises of exclusivity are made, etc. So although 100% is due after marriage vows are stated...I think it's reasonable to at minimum see the ability to give 100% during the dating process. That is to say, you should be able to see in the person that they are capable of being faithful, exclusive and committed. THAT is what all of your rules stated above are about: show me through these kinds of actions that I get all your affection and no one else does...show me that I get all of your loyalty and you aren't loyal to anyone else...show me that you will give all of your closeness and friendship to only me. THAT IS REASONABLE!! You should be able to see they are able to do that even before your married.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay? Does that help a bit?




AC,

Can’t thank you enough for taking the time to dissect “my boundaries” and explain in such detailed way. I totally get it now. And yes. I was really controlling in the way communicated my boundaries. I could have done much better. Wish I understood this then like I do now. 

Because of how I’ve acted she fears she will be in a relationship with someone controlling and there will always be drama.

I have to trust her and give her the benefit of the doubt or don’t trust her and let her go. Can’t be in both sides.


----------



## Lifescript

inmyprime said:


> I hate generalising but from what you are describing, with this type, the less you give a ****, the more she will cling to you. Ignore her and then expect questions like ‘do you still love me?’
> 
> And the better you treat her and the more you care for her, the more she will feel you are ‘controlling’ her. You really have two options: stop caring (and that means letting her go and do whatever she wants) and just see her as a fb. Or break up.
> She obviously isn’t ready for a committed relationship with you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Can’t to the friends with benefits thing with her anymore. I’m too invested and have feelings. That wouldn’t work.


----------



## 269370

Lifescript said:


> Can’t to the friends with benefits thing with her anymore. I’m too invested and have feelings. That wouldn’t work.




I know. That’s for the future 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> @Lifescript I think @Affaircare hit the nail on the head with her analysis, and shows why several (female) posters here found your "boundaries" to be controlling, even though they all agreed that this woman's behavior was bad, and encouraged you to drop her.
> 
> Personally, I would find these boundaries extreme, because I have opposite sex platonic friends--my best friend happens to be a guy. Ironically, while I couldn't abide by your boundaries, I am very trustworthy and fidelity is of the utmost importance to me, and as such I have strong personal boundaries for myself when I am in a relationship. My boyfriend is my number one. But I'm not going to give up half my social circle/life because he's insecure.
> 
> You felt the need to impose these boundaries on her because her previous and continued behavior showed that she wasn't trustworthy, and you questioned her ability to be faithful. In an attempt to make her be more trustworthy and faithful, you tried to impose boundaries--you tried to control her behavior and control the relationship. It also tells her that you don't think she's competent enough to make her own decisions. Do you see how this is controlling?
> 
> Now, here's the real question: why do you want to be with someone who you need to control in order for them to be a good partner to you? Why did you choose someone like this? Wouldn't it make more sense, wouldn't it be easier to choose a woman with clear, strong boundaries of her own, so you don't have to create boundaries for her? Someone whose natural behavior, of her own free will, is in sync with your expectations? I think you need to take this inquiry farther and look at your picker, and ask yourself why you would choose a woman like your recent girlfriend, who was such a clear mis-match in this respect.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




FIP, 

I see this now. How my way of asking her for these things was controlling. 

I think I said this before but I resisted getting deeper emotionally with her because there were red flags. We grew more and more closer and she shared things with me that although was not an excuse for her behavior did make me see why she would act that way. How her past could have put her in the wrong path.

Why try? At this point the answer would be because I love her. Does she love me back the same way and can she be committed to a relationship? She says she does. Her acting would have to start talking, not just words. 

I said this before but she showed me so much interest and love in the beginning, much more than I. 

Then I started having feelings and the drama started. 

FIP, 

Have you been with a guy you really liked and pursued and then when he started falling for you you lost interest?


----------



## Lifescript

Faithful Wife said:


> I wasn’t following Life’s story before now....but if I’m reading it correctly, she was married at the time they met.
> 
> 
> 
> This is about the most difficult way to try to begin a relationship possible. And it should be fairly common knowledge that divorcing/still married people are a mess. They have too much to go through still. It’s one thing to date one, another thing to try to get them into a committed relationship with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, I’m 3 years out and I’m certainly not ready for a serious commitment. I feel good that I’m just ready to be in love again. That’s huge progress!
> 
> 
> @Lifescript I hope you’re hanging in there....



She was separated when we met. We started hanging out/dating. Things were going good. At one point she said she wanted to be with me and was going to file for divorce. At that time I wasn’t ready and not sure about things. Months later I was where she was as far investment goes and she said she would do whatever it took for us to be together. Still waiting.


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> I agree with you. I would find Lifescript's list undoeble. I would call controlling, because in my case, I would not do anything to cause distrust. I realize it was different for this woman because of her previous actions but someone mentioned she was still married when he started seeing her. I think that speaks alot to the character of Lifescript if that is true. Whether they are beautiful or not, married is married. Maybe LS likes the unattainable (married and beautiful)??
> 
> I am glad they broke up because it sounds unhealthy all around. Seems like both people need to work on alot before they venture into relationship territory again.




Ouch bklyn. 

They were separated but still married. Yes, It was a mistake to get involved with her. My character took a hit and I’ve done things I didn’t think I would do. 

No excuses. I accept the blame and responsibility.


----------



## Lifescript

Here’s an update on the situation. 

I still have her on social media and saw posts from the concert she went to on Sunday. She was not lying when she said it was her, her mom and her sister. I was shocked. I thought her mom going was definitely not true. 

She texted me that night saying she is sorry for not putting my feelings first and she wants to talk. She said she wanted me to know she loves me and that she is just scared of being with me if I’m going to be this controlling. 

She told me she wanted me to go pick her up so I could she wasn’t going home with the ex bf who was not in the concert like she said he wouldn’t be. 

I didn’t go although I felt very tempted. 

She also told me her father used to be super controlling and fight with her mom all the time about nonsense. Her mom couldn’t even be late coming back from church because he would accuse her of stuff. Then they found out he was cheating on her. 

So she says me being this way reminds her of that and she vowed never to be in a situation like her mom was. 

She says I need to trust her and let her make these decisions. In the future if she wants to go to see this singer play again she says she will only go if I’m there. That’s her compromise. 

Would be lying if I said I’m sure what to do. She also said she knows for sure now that she doesn’t want to be with anyone other than me and will be seeing a lawyer to file papers.


----------



## bkyln309

Lifescript said:


> Here’s an update on the situation.
> 
> I still have her on social media and saw posts from the concert she went to on Sunday. She was not lying when she said it was her, her mom and her sister. I was shocked. I thought her mom going was definitely not true.
> 
> She texted me that night saying she is sorry for not putting my feelings first and she wants to talk. She said she wanted me to know she loves me and that she is just scared of being with me if I’m going to be this controlling.
> 
> She told me she wanted me to go pick her up so I could she wasn’t going home with the ex bf who was not in the concert like she said he wouldn’t be.
> 
> I didn’t go although I felt very tempted.
> 
> She also told me her father used to be super controlling and fight with her mom all the time about nonsense. Her mom couldn’t even be late coming back from church because he would accuse her of stuff. Then they found out he was cheating on her.
> 
> So she says me being this way reminds her of that and she vowed never to be in a situation like her mom was.
> 
> She says I need to trust her and let her make these decisions. In the future if she wants to go to see this singer play again she says she will only go if I’m there. That’s her compromise.
> 
> Would be lying if I said I’m not sure what to do. She also said she knows for sure now that she doesn’t want to be with anyone other than me and will be seeing a lawyer to file papers.


Funny she had the epiphany AFTER she went to the concert. Just saying. And she is still married. Let her go and find someone who is already available and ready for a relationship. If she hasnt even filed for divorce, she has a long way to go before she is single.


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## hope4family

I'd say take your lumps and learn a valuable lesson. 

As an aside. Do you think she is going to change after the fact going forward? 

She got what she wanted, she still gets to play with you. Win-win for her potentially. 

Walk away, there has got to be a single woman in her 20's who is thirsty for a taste of dating. 

Here is a mental exercise. Do you think this is it and you can't do better?


----------



## Ynot

Alrighty! Straight off a 3 week ban for "name calling" I am back! Not sure who I called a name, but whoever it was probably deserved it. Anyways, after catching up on this thread, some observations:
Lifescript - I think part of your problem is not that you have boundaries, but that you expect that you just need to state what they are and who ever will magically comply. Then when they don't, you don't enforce your own boundaries. You teach others how you want to be treated by your actions, not your words. 
FIP - I hope you stay away from RE, he doesn't deserve you
BananaPeel - I am happy for you
Now my update - I am now over four years out from my divorce and all the other turmoil that happened in my life in the aftermath. I am still a work in progress and I continue to learn and grow everyday. One of the things I had to overcome was my imagination. 
I used to imagine that I was the one looking thru the window and that my ex was the one on the inside enjoying her life. Well, as I have become more stable myself and started embracing my own life and my own self, my children have become more open with me and more honest about their own feelings.
So one day last week, my daughter asked me to breakfast, where she proceeded to tell me that she was pretty much done with her mother. Apparently, my ex has continued to refer to my daughter as autistic. She dismisses anything my daughter says, because my daughter is the child (26 y/o, IC nurse, going to school to become a CNP, married, home owner etc) and my ex is THE mother! She accuses my daughter of not caring about family because my daughter refuses to bend to her will (you come visit me, you do as I say) and has stopped accepting her mother's criticism of anything and everything she does. My daughter said she feels like she is going crazy, because she loves her mother but can't stand to be around her. Her mother is angry at her, my daughter's husband, our son and his wife. My ex's old friends do not speak to her any longer. She is estranged from her sister. She is seeing some dude who has all three of his adult children and his grand child living with him, in a town over an hour from where my ex lives.
So, I told my daughter that I don't ever want her to imagine I am taking any pleasure in her discomfort, but that all of the things she has told me, has validated many of the things I had felt myself. I do have to admit, seeing my ex imploding like this does give me a degree of satisfaction. I realize that as messed up as I sometimes have felt, that I am nothing like this bundle of red flags that my ex is and was. I am not the crazy one, neither is my daughter. Karma has a way of dealing with life.


----------



## Faithful Wife

A quick funny update...I got 2 unsolicited **** pics yesterday! Woot!

Both were guys I was chatting with from OLD. Both seemed ok at the start. Both very hot, one a bit older than me and the other a lot younger. 

Both start taking the convo to sexual which is sometimes ok. So I’m going along with it so far. The younger guy sends the pic out of the blue and says “I hope it’s not too soon”. 

When this happens, I always know it’s not going anywhere for me. Guys who do this unsolicited are not the type of guy I want to date.

So I tell him well, it’s maybe too soon but thanks for the pic anyway. Then he ghosts.

The older guy was talking more and more sexual and then just says straight up that he’s hung.

This is always an invitation to say “oh can I see?” Which I did not say. But a few texts later, there’s my pic! 

So the older guy is clearly one of these guys who has a huge **** and is gorgeous and never really developed anything else about himself and truly thinks his **** is the only thing he has to offer.

Which at his age since he did not develop his mind or emotions during his lifetime, it really probably is all he has to offer.

I tell him his **** is amazing, and it was. Then I start making small talk, knowing this isn’t going anywhere. I began asking about his job which he is evasive about, and where he lives, which turns out to be in a house that is not his with 2 roommates.

Then he tells me he thinks I’m too superficial and says “he’ll pass, sorry”. Lol

I didn’t answer so he kept saying things trying to get me to respond until I blocked him.

And then I added my 2 new pics to my random **** pic collection!

I haven’t had an unsolicited one in over a year so it was weird to get 2 in one day. 

Onward...


----------



## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> FIP,
> 
> I see this now. How my way of asking her for these things was controlling.
> 
> I think I said this before but I resisted getting deeper emotionally with her because there were red flags. We grew more and more closer and she shared things with me that although was not an excuse for her behavior did make me see why she would act that way. How her past could have put her in the wrong path.
> 
> Why try? At this point the answer would be because I love her. Does she love me back the same way and can she be committed to a relationship? She says she does. Her acting would have to start talking, not just words.
> 
> I said this before but she showed me so much interest and love in the beginning, much more than I.
> 
> Then I started having feelings and the drama started.
> 
> FIP,
> 
> Have you been with a guy you really liked and pursued and then when he started falling for you you lost interest?


I have been, yes... but when I lose interest, it happens QUICK. Like, <2 months. If I make it past 2 months with someone, I know I'm not going to lose interest, and if we break up, it will be because of a major incompatibility issue, and not a lack of interest.

Why do you ask?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> FIP - I hope you stay away from RE, he doesn't deserve you.


Don't worry, I will.

And you're right, he doesn't. I've definitely learned that these past few months.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> Funny she had the epiphany AFTER she went to the concert. Just saying. And she is still married. Let her go and find someone who is already available and ready for a relationship. If she hasnt even filed for divorce, she has a long way to go before she is single.




I know. 

I know is not advisable but is it morally wrong to be with someone who is separated but not yet divorced if the marriage is really done?


----------



## Lifescript

hope4family said:


> I'd say take your lumps and learn a valuable lesson.
> 
> 
> 
> As an aside. Do you think she is going to change after the fact going forward?
> 
> 
> 
> She got what she wanted, she still gets to play with you. Win-win for her potentially.
> 
> 
> 
> Walk away, there has got to be a single woman in her 20's who is thirsty for a taste of dating.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a mental exercise. Do you think this is it and you can't do better?



I know I can find someone else. 

Will she change? Would like to talk to her in person to see what’s in her mind. 

Actually filling would be a good indicator that she’s for real this time.


----------



## bkyln309

Lifescript said:


> I know.
> 
> I know is not advisable but is it morally wrong to be with someone who is separated but not yet divorced if the marriage is really done?




Yes because she hasn’t even filed. It was not like she was waiting for the divorce to finalize. She was separated from her husband with the intent of deciding to stay married or not. She is still a wife! Reverse the tables, what if your wife was living apart but sleeping with another man and nothing had been decided about your relationship. Yes morally wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> Alrighty! Straight off a 3 week ban for "name calling" I am back! Not sure who I called a name, but whoever it was probably deserved it. Anyways, after catching up on this thread, some observations:
> Lifescript - I think part of your problem is not that you have boundaries, but that you expect that you just need to state what they are and who ever will magically comply. Then when they don't, you don't enforce your own boundaries. You teach others how you want to be treated by your actions, not your words.
> FIP - I hope you stay away from RE, he doesn't deserve you
> BananaPeel - I am happy for you
> Now my update - I am now over four years out from my divorce and all the other turmoil that happened in my life in the aftermath. I am still a work in progress and I continue to learn and grow everyday. One of the things I had to overcome was my imagination.
> I used to imagine that I was the one looking thru the window and that my ex was the one on the inside enjoying her life. Well, as I have become more stable myself and started embracing my own life and my own self, my children have become more open with me and more honest about their own feelings.
> So one day last week, my daughter asked me to breakfast, where she proceeded to tell me that she was pretty much done with her mother. Apparently, my ex has continued to refer to my daughter as autistic. She dismisses anything my daughter says, because my daughter is the child (26 y/o, IC nurse, going to school to become a CNP, married, home owner etc) and my ex is THE mother! She accuses my daughter of not caring about family because my daughter refuses to bend to her will (you come visit me, you do as I say) and has stopped accepting her mother's criticism of anything and everything she does. My daughter said she feels like she is going crazy, because she loves her mother but can't stand to be around her. Her mother is angry at her, my daughter's husband, our son and his wife. My ex's old friends do not speak to her any longer. She is estranged from her sister. She is seeing some dude who has all three of his adult children and his grand child living with him, in a town over an hour from where my ex lives.
> So, I told my daughter that I don't ever want her to imagine I am taking any pleasure in her discomfort, but that all of the things she has told me, has validated many of the things I had felt myself. I do have to admit, seeing my ex imploding like this does give me a degree of satisfaction. I realize that as messed up as I sometimes have felt, that I am nothing like this bundle of red flags that my ex is and was. I am not the crazy one, neither is my daughter. Karma has a way of dealing with life.




Ynot, 

I think that’s the problem yes. I state my boundaries and really feel like I shouldn’t even have to be saying those tings that it should be automatic that people know that is wrong but as I get older I understand that I’m a bit close minded and not as liberal/open/whatever you want to call it as other people are. So I have to understand that and state my boundaries, stick to them and lay consequences when they are not respected. 

Your ex sounds like the prize.


----------



## Lifescript

bkyln309 said:


> Yes because she hasn’t even filed. It was not like she was waiting for the divorce to finalize. She was separated from her husband with the intent of deciding to stay married or not. She is still a wife! Reverse the tables, what if your wife was living apart but sleeping with another man and nothing had been decided about your relationship. Yes morally wrong
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I see your point. I can see that. When you are the situation sometimes you rationalize and make up why x y or z is ok. 

I guess I was insensitive to the situation after she told me her husband didnt care and would actually go out with other people and probably had an affair with a cousin of hers (she found pics of him asking for nude pics and saying she misses her). 

After that I didn’t care. I knew he is not a good man.


----------



## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> I have been, yes... but when I lose interest, it happens QUICK. Like, <2 months. If I make it past 2 months with someone, I know I'm not going to lose interest, and if we break up, it will be because of a major incompatibility issue, and not a lack of interest.
> 
> Why do you ask?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Because I’ve read and had a number of people tell me that once you let a woman know she had you, it’s game over. She loses interest and starts focusing somewhere else. I know this can’t be true all the time but was wondering if some of the women here has experience this.


----------



## hope4family

Lifescript said:


> I know I can find someone else.
> 
> Will she change? Would like to talk to her in person to see what’s in her mind.
> 
> Actually filling would be a good indicator that she’s for real this time.


Find someone else then. 

What intangible does she bring to the table that outways the risk of you even considering "what if"? 

Is she wealthy? 
Have the perfect waist to hip ratio according to science? 
Have a long proven track record of relationship stability and this is her first ever offense in her life? 

Mourn what she hadn't done if you want to. Not whether or not she will do it in the future. 

Let her go, find someone who isn't legally married and is more ready to commit. This is too much drama. 


Rip the covert contract up.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

hope4family said:


> Find someone else then.
> 
> What intangible does she bring to the table that outways the risk of you even considering "what if"?
> 
> Is she wealthy?
> Have the perfect waist to hip ratio according to science?
> Have a long proven track record of relationship stability and this is her first ever offense in her life?
> 
> Mourn what she hadn't done if you want to. Not whether or not she will do it in the future.
> 
> Let her go, find someone who isn't legally married and is more ready to commit. This is too much drama.
> 
> 
> Rip the covert contract up.


QFT. I never knew there as a name for covert contracts until I started my healing journey in 2013. Read up on covert contracts and boundaries. Reread AC's post as it's spot on as well.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Lifescript said:


> Here’s an update on the situation.
> 
> I still have her on social media and saw posts from the concert she went to on Sunday. She was not lying when she said it was her, her mom and her sister. I was shocked. I thought her mom going was definitely not true.
> 
> She texted me that night saying she is sorry for not putting my feelings first and she wants to talk. *She said she wanted me to know she loves me and that she is just scared of being with me if I’m going to be this controlling.
> *
> She told me she wanted me to go pick her up so I could she wasn’t going home with the ex bf who was not in the concert like she said he wouldn’t be.
> 
> I didn’t go although I felt very tempted.
> 
> She also told me her father used to be super controlling and fight with her mom all the time about nonsense. Her mom couldn’t even be late coming back from church because he would accuse her of stuff. Then they found out he was cheating on her.
> 
> So she says me being this way reminds her of that and she vowed never to be in a situation like her mom was.
> 
> *She says I need to trust her and let her make these decisions.* In the future if she wants to go to see this singer play again she says she will only go if I’m there. That’s her compromise.
> 
> Would be lying if I said I’m sure what to do. She also said she knows for sure now that she doesn’t want to be with anyone other than me and will be seeing a lawyer to file papers.


Um no. Just don't. You are still going to have the same boundaries as before, and she is trying to talk you out of them, calling you controlling and telling you you need to "trust her." Trust her based on what, her awesome track record so far?? Stop communicating with her and just let it go.


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> A quick funny update...I got 2 unsolicited **** pics yesterday! Woot!
> 
> Both were guys I was chatting with from OLD. Both seemed ok at the start. Both very hot, one a bit older than me and the other a lot younger.
> 
> Both start taking the convo to sexual which is sometimes ok. So I’m going along with it so far. The younger guy sends the pic out of the blue and says “I hope it’s not too soon”.
> 
> When this happens, I always know it’s not going anywhere for me. Guys who do this unsolicited are not the type of guy I want to date.
> 
> So I tell him well, it’s maybe too soon but thanks for the pic anyway. Then he ghosts.
> 
> The older guy was talking more and more sexual and then just says straight up that he’s hung.
> 
> This is always an invitation to say “oh can I see?” Which I did not say. But a few texts later, there’s my pic!
> 
> So the older guy is clearly one of these guys who has a huge **** and is gorgeous and never really developed anything else about himself and truly thinks his **** is the only thing he has to offer.
> 
> Which at his age since he did not develop his mind or emotions during his lifetime, it really probably is all he has to offer.
> 
> I tell him his **** is amazing, and it was. Then I start making small talk, knowing this isn’t going anywhere. I began asking about his job which he is evasive about, and where he lives, which turns out to be in a house that is not his with 2 roommates.
> 
> Then he tells me he thinks I’m too superficial and says “he’ll pass, sorry”. Lol
> 
> I didn’t answer so he kept saying things trying to get me to respond until I blocked him.
> 
> And then I added my 2 new pics to my random **** pic collection!
> 
> I haven’t had an unsolicited one in over a year so it was weird to get 2 in one day.
> 
> Onward...


I can't help but think that they are super shallow and have nothing to offer if not mental illness. In the OLD realm it is very common I keep being told. 

I prioritize talking about sexuality. Because I am in fact a sexual being and I've been horribly mismatched. I couldn't think of sending something so intimate and private so quickly. 

Frankly i'd start a collection too if I was dealing with that. :laugh:


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> I can't help but think that they are super shallow and have nothing to offer if not mental illness. In the OLD realm it is very common I keep being told.
> 
> I prioritize talking about sexuality. Because I am in fact a sexual being and I've been horribly mismatched. I couldn't think of sending something so intimate and private so quickly.
> 
> Frankly i'd start a collection too if I was dealing with that. :laugh:


The **** pic is a fascinating phenomenon. Though I have to guess it is just as common for women to send unsolicited or barely hinted at boob pics. I have heard from many men anyway that women have no problem sending boob and other naughty pics.

As soon as everyone had a camera in their hand that didn’t require photo processing to see the images, everyone also simultaneously tried taking a pic of their junk. Some pics turn out well, some don’t.

People with cameras and junk (most everyone) have been fascinated with pics ever since, their own and other’s pics.

In the dating world, there are different types of guys who did it right out the gate like that.

There are the ones who have nothing else to offer and it’s usually huge. They don’t care if you show all your friends the pics, or if they never even meet you.

Then there are the ones who don’t really know if you’ll like it or not but they are obsessed with their own **** enough to hope that you will like it. These ones aren’t usually nut cases, they are just porn hobbled young guys.

Then there are the actual nut cases. They usually get weird and demanding after they send the **** pic. I had one guy who I knew was not going anywhere immediately talking about how huge he was. So I respond with interest about his apparently ginormous **** but not asking for a pic. He offered the pic. I told him that since I didn’t think we were a match that we probably wouldn’t ever actually meet, and therefore if he sent me a pic it would just end up in my random **** pic folder. He laughed and asked if I actually had one. I said yes, I can’t believe all these chumps actually sent me these pics. So I save them and revel in their stupidity. He laughed st their stupidity with me, then sent a pic of his ****.

I told him it was awesome (it was). Then he demanded pics of some part of me. I laughed and said this isn’t high school. He got all puffy and weird and then demanded that I delete his **** pic.

So I did. I am ethical, after all.

He texted a day or two later and said did you really delete my pic? I said of course. So he sent it again and said “for your gallery” with hearts.

I see that guy around once in awhile now and I just give him a wink.

There are the rest of the guys....normal guys....

Normal guys I end up dating and having sex with don’t do that, but we swap pics of every body part eventually and take them of each other. I love sexy pics. I especially love taking them of my lover because it’s nearly impossible for guys to take sexy selfies. The angles where they are the sexiest, you can’t reach with a phone by yourself. 

I send sexy pics to guys I’m chatting with if I actually think we will meet. But not naked ones. However, nearly naked can be just as erotic. I appreciate nearly naked ones back from them because I want to get an idea of their body and already start to map it with my mind. I want to imagine it and get to know it before meeting them, if possible.

Sometimes I’ll get muscle pics from young dudes. I always appreciate those. Some guys won’t take that kind of pic for me, but the younger ones figure out a way (selfie masters). Sometimes like I said, it’s hard to get your own best angles and they fail miserably and the pic I get looks terrible and then later i see a good pic in better light and it’s like BAM! Where did alllllllll of that come from?

My sweet younger guy I dated this summer who had a simply divine body, was absolutely clueless about how beautiful he was and he did not have any selfies nor would he have wanted to take one. It wasn’t a cultural thing for him either so he never got into it. I am happy that I will never have a pic of his ****, it was too beautiful to be captured on camera and will just have to stay perfect in my mind for all eternity. :grin2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

BTW...I have had reported by several men that there is a similar phenomenon with some women. They lead with “by the way, my ***** is soooo tight...” inviting a request or if no request comes then “wanna see?” and pics. Some people just love their junk so much.


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> BTW...I have had reported by several men that there is a similar phenomenon with some women. They lead with “by the way, my ***** is soooo tight...” inviting a request or if no request comes then “wanna see?” and pics. Some people just love their junk so much.


Fascinating. I lead such a simple life, lolz. 

In all my years of dating. I had one woman send me a nude unprovoked. 

Considering she was dating a friend at the time. This was an easy next for me. Yes, I informed my friend.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Because I’ve read and had a number of people tell me that once you let a woman know she had you, it’s game over. She loses interest and starts focusing somewhere else. I know this can’t be true all the time but was wondering if some of the women here has experience this.


This reeks of "The Game." Whether or not it's "game over" depends on the woman, I think. But I think it's much bigger and more complex than they make it sound.

Let me put it this way... if she knows she's got with you, and you don't have clear boundaries, or she steamrolls right through them, and you just roll over and take her crap because "she has you," then she'll think you're a wuss and less of a man, and she will lose interest. Not because you're into her, but because there's no pushback and backbone.

Conversely, you can be into her, and willing to move heaven and earth to give her what she wants and need (and you do so), but have strong boundaries that you enforce, she won't lose interest. Because you have backbone and pushback.

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## Bananapeel

@Lifescript - I wholeheartedly agree with FIP. The way to apply it is if the woman is not treating you the way you want then you decrease your time/attention that you give to her rather than just rolling over and taking it. If she's treating you the way you like then you give her more time/attention. Think about it this way, if she's treating you suboptimally do you really want to spend your time with her or would you rather do other things? That's all having a backbone is. Just knowing what you want and being able to stand up for yourself. 

In my mind I picture a teeter totter that I try to keep balanced. Whatever level of closeness/affection/attention I am receiving I want to mirror. If she's pulling away from me then I pull away too, and when she moves closer then I move closer too. The women that lose interest usually occurs when the woman pulls away so the man moves closer and gives her more time/attention to try to appease her. That causes an imbalance, boredom, and the thought that you don't have a backbone to set in.


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## Lifescript

hope4family said:


> Find someone else then.
> 
> 
> 
> What intangible does she bring to the table that outways the risk of you even considering "what if"?
> 
> 
> 
> Is she wealthy?
> 
> Have the perfect waist to hip ratio according to science?
> 
> Have a long proven track record of relationship stability and this is her first ever offense in her life?
> 
> 
> 
> Mourn what she hadn't done if you want to. Not whether or not she will do it in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Let her go, find someone who isn't legally married and is more ready to commit. This is too much drama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rip the covert contract up.



Intangibles: 

She cares about me and has shown this in the form of being there for me while I went through a rough patch in my personal life and also all these issues at work. 

She doesn’t want my money. I’ve been offered to help with financial debts she has (she refuses to accept my help). 

She is very thoughtful and shows me she understands me. 

Best sex I’ve ever had. 

She is family oriented (I see this is sort of a contradiction) being that she is contemplating breaking up her family but she is grieving that right now and never wanted that. She is just not happy and not a good match with her partner. 

She is intelligent as F%%*

She is a hard worker. 

She doesn’t go out and do the club thing like many other girls do. She rarely goes out unless she is celebrating a friends bday or going out with her family (aunts, cousins, etc). 

She is my biggest fan and supports my goals. 

These are some of the intangibles. 

Not saying she is the one or that I shouldn’t walk but Is more complicated than that. Taking my time to decide what I want to do and whether I tell her we will just be done forever or that we can try once she is divorced.


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## Lifescript

TheGoodGuy said:


> QFT. I never knew there as a name for covert contracts until I started my healing journey in 2013. Read up on covert contracts and boundaries. Reread AC's post as it's spot on as well.




I printed ACs post and have read it a bunch of times. Has really helped me see the difference.


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## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> This reeks of "The Game." Whether or not it's "game over" depends on the woman, I think. But I think it's much bigger and more complex than they make it sound.
> 
> Let me put it this way... if she knows she's got with you, and you don't have clear boundaries, or she steamrolls right through them, and you just roll over and take her crap because "she has you," then she'll think you're a wuss and less of a man, and she will lose interest. Not because you're into her, but because there's no pushback and backbone.
> 
> Conversely, you can be into her, and willing to move heaven and earth to give her what she wants and need (and you do so), but have strong boundaries that you enforce, she won't lose interest. Because you have backbone and pushback.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Gotcha. Makes sense.


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## Lifescript

Bananapeel said:


> @Lifescript - I wholeheartedly agree with FIP. The way to apply it is if the woman is not treating you the way you want then you decrease your time/attention that you give to her rather than just rolling over and taking it. If she's treating you the way you like then you give her more time/attention. Think about it this way, if she's treating you suboptimally do you really want to spend your time with her or would you rather do other things? That's all having a backbone is. Just knowing what you want and being able to stand up for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> In my mind I picture a teeter totter that I try to keep balanced. Whatever level of closeness/affection/attention I am receiving I want to mirror. If she's pulling away from me then I pull away too, and when she moves closer then I move closer too. The women that lose interest usually occurs when the woman pulls away so the man moves closer and gives her more time/attention to try to appease her. That causes an imbalance, boredom, and the thought that you don't have a backbone to set in.



Yes. I do think there are women out there who are addicted to the thrill of the chase so they are interested until they have you and then move on to someone else they have to chase and seduce all over again. But someone like that is a next.


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## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> Intangibles:
> 
> She cares about me and has shown this in the form of being there for me while I went through a rough patch in my personal life and also all these issues at work.
> 
> She doesn’t want my money. I’ve been offered to help with financial debts she has (she refuses to accept my help).
> 
> She is very thoughtful and shows me she understands me.
> 
> Best sex I’ve ever had.
> 
> She is family oriented (I see this is sort of a contradiction) being that she is contemplating breaking up her family but she is grieving that right now and never wanted that. She is just not happy and not a good match with her partner.
> 
> She is intelligent as F%%*
> 
> She is a hard worker.
> 
> She doesn’t go out and do the club thing like many other girls do. She rarely goes out unless she is celebrating a friends bday or going out with her family (aunts, cousins, etc).
> 
> She is my biggest fan and supports my goals.
> 
> These are some of the intangibles.
> 
> Not saying she is the one or that I shouldn’t walk but Is more complicated than that. Taking my time to decide what I want to do and whether I tell her we will just be done forever or that we can try once she is divorced.


But the one thing missing from your list of all the things she is, is the one thing she isn't. Which is someone to comply with your wishes. That is what is really bothering you and that is why you are having this on going discussion. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries, But if some else is not interested in abiding by them, then you have to decide - are your boundaries unrealistic to begin with or is this person just not interested. The only way to know the first to apply them to many and see what the results are. The only way to know if the second is true is to move on to someone who can and will respect them. Either was you need to do what makes you happy. There is no such thing as the one. So if she isn't capable of meeting your needs , go find someone who will.


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## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> But the one thing missing from your list of all the things she is, is the one thing she isn't. Which is someone to comply with your wishes. That is what is really bothering you and that is why you are having this on going discussion. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries, But if some else is not interested in abiding by them, then you have to decide - are your boundaries unrealistic to begin with or is this person just not interested. The only way to know the first to apply them to many and see what the results are. The only way to know if the second is true is to move on to someone who can and will respect them. Either was you need to do what makes you happy. There is no such thing as the one. So if she isn't capable of meeting your needs , go find someone who will.



My boundaries are my boundaries and now I know how to communicate them better so they don’t come off as demands or trying to control another. 

Some of the women here did say my boundaries were unrealistic so that was a reality check.


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## 3Xnocharm

I don't think your boundaries are unrealistic.


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## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> My boundaries are my boundaries and now I know how to communicate them better so they don’t come off as demands or trying to control another.
> 
> Some of the women here did say my boundaries were unrealistic so that was a reality check.


Some will and some won't think they are unrealistic. That is to be expected. But as you have said, now you know. Perhaps that is all you needed to do was to be better at communicating them. Or, perhaps this woman is not right for you. Regardless of what anyone says, each of us, everyone, is a work in progress and remains so until the day we die. Live and learn.


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## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> Some will and some won't think they are unrealistic. That is to be expected. But as you have said, now you know. Perhaps that is all you needed to do was to be better at communicating them. Or, perhaps this woman is not right for you. Regardless of what anyone says, each of us, everyone, is a work in progress and remains so until the day we die. Live and learn.




I agree. We all have stuff to fix and the first step is realizing it. 

We are supposed to talk tomorrow. Im thinking of telling her we need to remain broken up until she is divorced. 

I would like to remain in contact as friends in the time being.


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## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> I agree. We all have stuff to fix and the first step is realizing it.
> 
> We are supposed to talk tomorrow. Im thinking of telling her we need to remain broken up until she is divorced.
> 
> I would like to remain in contact as friends in the time being.


Just my own observation, but many times, both men and women have a hard time dealing with someone else's boundaries while going thru this process. Oftentimes they are still struggling to establish their own, regardless of the reasons why they are divorcing or how long they have been going thru the process.
I dated a woman about a year ago, who had just divorced. She told me it had been coming for a long time and that she was over it and had moved on. It turns out she might have been over her divorce, but she had not come to terms with who she was or what she wanted. I noticed a distinct change in her demeanor and we had a talk and decided to go our own ways. In the end, I really think she needed time by herself to determine who and what she wanted to be. We parted as friends, she recognized her issues (not that I didn't have some myself) so that was helpful.
My ex was still married when we met. Her divorce was in process, but it was not final. Looking back, had I known then, what I know now, that would have been a HUGE red flag to me. Now I have a buddy, less than 6 months from his own divorce. He has been seeing this woman for 4 months now. Our mutual friends tease him and tell him to not get divorced and married in the same year. But they are taking bets as to how soon he will get married. I keep telling them both to take it very slow, so we shall see.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Just my own observation, but many times, both men and women have a hard time dealing with someone else's boundaries while going thru this process. Oftentimes they are still struggling to establish their own, regardless of the reasons why they are divorcing or how long they have been going thru the process.
> I dated a woman about a year ago, who had just divorced. She told me it had been coming for a long time and that she was over it and had moved on. It turns out she might have been over her divorce, but she had not come to terms with who she was or what she wanted. I noticed a distinct change in her demeanor and we had a talk and decided to go our own ways. In the end, I really think she needed time by herself to determine who and what she wanted to be. We parted as friends, she recognized her issues (not that I didn't have some myself) so that was helpful.
> My ex was still married when we met. Her divorce was in process, but it was not final. Looking back, had I known then, what I know now, that would have been a HUGE red flag to me. Now I have a buddy, less than 6 months from his own divorce. He has been seeing this woman for 4 months now. Our mutual friends tease him and tell him to not get divorced and married in the same year. But they are taking bets as to how soon he will get married. I keep telling them both to take it very slow, so we shall see.


This doesn't just apply to people who are presently going through, or have recently gone through, a divorce. Those who have divorced in the past but have never actually dealt with their issues, worked on themselves, or figured out who they are post-divorce, these people will still have problems dealing with boundaries and the other issues we've discussed here.

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## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> My boundaries are my boundaries and now I know how to communicate them better so they don’t come off as demands or trying to control another.
> 
> Some of the women here did say my boundaries were unrealistic so that was a reality check.


It's not that your boundaries are unreasonable... it's that you have presented/expressed them as demands and as a device to control. If you can re-frame them and utilize them differently, they will be far more palatable to a reasonable woman.

The way you presented them in your initial question asking if they were unreasonable, I was one of those who said yes, they were unreasonable and would be unacceptable to me, because they were clearly controlling. However, when those same ideas were re-framed and phrased differently by @Affaircare, they seemed completely reasonable.

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## honcho

​


Ynot said:


> Just my own observation, but many times, both men and women have a hard time dealing with someone else's boundaries while going thru this process. Oftentimes they are still struggling to establish their own, regardless of the reasons why they are divorcing or how long they have been going thru the process.
> I dated a woman about a year ago, who had just divorced. She told me it had been coming for a long time and that she was over it and had moved on. It turns out she might have been over her divorce, but she had not come to terms with who she was or what she wanted. I noticed a distinct change in her demeanor and we had a talk and decided to go our own ways. In the end, I really think she needed time by herself to determine who and what she wanted to be. We parted as friends, she recognized her issues (not that I didn't have some myself) so that was helpful.
> My ex was still married when we met. Her divorce was in process, but it was not final. Looking back, had I known then, what I know now, that would have been a HUGE red flag to me. Now I have a buddy, less than 6 months from his own divorce. He has been seeing this woman for 4 months now. Our mutual friends tease him and tell him to not get divorced and married in the same year. But they are taking bets as to how soon he will get married. I keep telling them both to take it very slow, so we shall see.


I've dated 2 women who fell into the recently divorced category, one had been final a couple months, one finalize a month prior to me actually dating her. In both instances start out great and then as time went on you could see them change as they started to figure out what they truly wanted and gained confidence in themselves and being independent. Neither relationship ended badly at all but both realized they needed/should've taken some time to explore the "new world" of single.


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## Ynot

honcho said:


> ​
> I've dated 2 women who fell into the recently divorced category, one had been final a couple months, one finalize a month prior to me actually dating her. In both instances start out great and then as time went on you could see them change as they started to figure out what they truly wanted and gained confidence in themselves and being independent. Neither relationship ended badly at all but both realized they needed/should've taken some time to explore the "new world" of single.


Yes, from my own experience, I remember how I was after my divorce. Everything, every idea, every assumption, every conclusion, every rule for life, every aspect of who I was, was in question. I tried to put on the brave face and put myself out there. But I was a mess inside. Looking back four years later, I am amazed how much different I am now than I was then or before my divorce. Luckily for me, I have spent enough time alone figuring out my self for my self, rather than trying to muddle thru it while in the midst of a relationship and having the prism of that input to factor in or out. Heck, I still consider myself a work in progress and advise anyone I get involved with of that right up front so there are no illusions.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Yes, from my own experience, I remember how I was after my divorce. Everything, every idea, every assumption, every conclusion, every rule for life, every aspect of who I was, was in question. I tried to put on the brave face and put myself out there. But I was a mess inside. Looking back four years later, I am amazed how much different I am now than I was then or before my divorce. Luckily for me, I have spent enough time alone figuring out my self for my self, rather than trying to muddle thru it while in the midst of a relationship and having the prism of that input to factor in or out. Heck, I still consider myself a work in progress and advise anyone I get involved with of that right up front so there are no illusions.




I haven’t really liked you that much lately but this is a great post. Looks like the break from TAM did you some good 


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Yes, from my own experience, I remember how I was after my divorce. Everything, every idea, every assumption, every conclusion, every rule for life, every aspect of who I was, was in question. I tried to put on the brave face and put myself out there. But I was a mess inside. Looking back four years later, I am amazed how much different I am now than I was then or before my divorce. Luckily for me, I have spent enough time alone figuring out my self for my self, rather than trying to muddle thru it while in the midst of a relationship and having the prism of that input to factor in or out. Heck, I still consider myself a work in progress and advise anyone I get involved with of that right up front so there are no illusions.


All of this--exactly how I felt immediately after my divorce. I'm now leaps and bounds from where I was initially, but I too am still a work in progress, and believe I will be for the rest of my life.

And that's not just ok, I think it's great. To know that I'm just fine as I am, but that I have the opportunity to be better, more than I already am, and that I have the power in myself to do that--it's freaking AMAZING.

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## FeministInPink

I have a date tomorrow night! A guy from Germany, in town on business, looking for "casual." So, if I like him, I will be getting laid on Monday night. So, by "date" I mean "sex." LOL 

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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I have a date tomorrow night! A guy from Germany, in town on business, looking for "casual." So, if I like him, I will be getting laid on Monday night. So, by "date" I mean "sex." LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yay, sex date!


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## FeministInPink

Dammit, sex date no longer happening. Bumble deleted our match/convoluted before we could exchange info. I have no way to get in touch with this guy, nor him to contact me.

No sex for FiP.

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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Dammit, sex date no longer happening. Bumble deleted our match/convoluted before we could exchange info. I have no way to get in touch with this guy, nor him to contact me.
> 
> No sex for FiP.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Aw dang.

You know, I have to be talking to about 10 guys to make an actual date stick with one of them. People disappear all the time. And I sometimes disappear on them, too. 

Onward!


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## lifeistooshort

Hey everyone, thought I'd drop in and say hi now that I'm among all of the singles.

Many of you know my story from my private members section thread. 

I initiated my divorce and detached quite awhile ago, so I'm doing fine.... enjoying my my new house with my teenage boys. It's peaceful.

Looking forward to reading up on how everyone is doing.


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## Ynot

lifeistooshort said:


> Hey everyone, thought I'd drop in and say hi now that I'm among all of the singles.
> 
> Many of you know my story from my private members section thread.
> 
> I initiated my divorce and detached quite awhile ago, so I'm doing fine.... enjoying my my new house with my teenage boys. It's peaceful.
> 
> Looking forward to reading up on how everyone is doing.


Welcome to the club?


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Bumble deleted our match/convoluted before we could exchange info.


This happened to me yesterday too, it was so weird! I could see he had messaged me then when I opened the thread his message wasn't there. So I message back and say something is screwy. Then MY message disappeared! But he could see it. Whatever he wrote back I couldn't see, but thankfully I had sent him my # up thread so we connected that way. It was the weirdest glitch I've ever seen!

The guy in question I ended up on a great date with but he is just a friend. And in this case, it is a mutual friend zoning, we just felt that vibe immediately. He is fascinating, has lived an incredible life (grew up in Cyprus and also Jordan, and has lived all over the world), and I loved hearing all of his stories. We have another friend date set for next week and I'm actually bringing on of my co workers with us so she can hear all his amazing stories, too.

Did you know that camels who are hand raised by a loving person develop a bond deeper than even horses do with their trainer? Camels also are very affectionate with their person, love to be hugged, pet, kissed, brushed, and talked to. And they kiss you back! They also recognize themselves and their person in pictures or on screens, so you can literally skype with your camel and he will recognize you on a screen and try to nuzzle you. 

They have these beautiful, muppet like faces and eyes with eye lashes as if they are made of ostrich feathers. Now on my bucket list to make friends with a camel!

I found this adorable video that shows some of these behaviors....


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## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> This happened to me yesterday too, it was so weird! I could see he had messaged me then when I opened the thread his message wasn't there. So I message back and say something is screwy. Then MY message disappeared! But he could see it. Whatever he wrote back I couldn't see, but thankfully I had sent him my # up thread so we connected that way. It was the weirdest glitch I've ever seen!
> 
> The guy in question I ended up on a great date with but he is just a friend. And in this case, it is a mutual friend zoning, we just felt that vibe immediately. He is fascinating, has lived an incredible life (grew up in Cyprus and also Jordan, and has lived all over the world), and I loved hearing all of his stories. We have another friend date set for next week and I'm actually bringing on of my co workers with us so she can hear all his amazing stories, too.
> 
> Did you know that camels who are hand raised by a loving person develop a bond deeper than even horses do with their trainer? Camels also are very affectionate with their person, love to be hugged, pet, kissed, brushed, and talked to. And they kiss you back! They also recognize themselves and their person in pictures or on screens, so you can literally skype with your camel and he will recognize you on a screen and try to nuzzle you.
> 
> They have these beautiful, muppet like faces and eyes with eye lashes as if they are made of ostrich feathers. Now on my bucket list to make friends with a camel!
> 
> I found this adorable video that shows some of these behaviors....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCkI3bqF9zs


Sorry but the camel guy is creepy


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> Sorry but the camel guy is creepy


Means nothing to me, I just found a random video about camels.


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## Ynot

So since the conversation has turned to sex. I had a nice day yesterday.
Started off like a typical day. Did some work. Went to the gym. Did a little more work. Did some much needed yard work and cleaned out my gutters. Then I took a shower and headed to a party that the college I teach at was having. Two hours, a free meal and three free beers later, I went to my local water hole for a glass of Blanton's on the rocks and to check in with my buddy who is the bartender. Spent a pleasant hour talking to him and the other female bar tender who had just gotten off. Then my FB texted and said she was free if I was available. I went home and she came over about a half hour later. Then we had sex, fell asleep and she was gone by the time I woke up.
So all in all a good day - made some money, worked out, did somethings I needed to do, socialized with colleagues, ate and drank for free, got a nice buzz and had sex.
Sometimes when I think about my life, I realize that I live a life that many would kill for. I can do what I want, when I want. I don't have to worry about getting someone else's approval or meeting anyone else's expectations. I realize that had I still been married, none of that would have been the case. The single life is growing on me.


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## 2&out

And it may continue to do so Ynot. You might come to think what's the upside of not being ? My pro/con list is very heavily tilted... so far so that I don't see/think it is likely, or even possible, to ever being close to considering not being single.


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## Ynot

2&out said:


> And it may continue to do so Ynot. You might come to think what's the upside of not being ? My pro/con list is very heavily tilted... so far so that I don't see/think it is likely, or even possible, to ever being close to considering not being single.


I am already in that camp. Despite the loneliness I sometimes feel, all I have to do is remember how lonely I was when I was married and suddenly that feeling goes away.


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## sunsetmist

ynot said:


> i am already in that camp. Despite the loneliness i sometimes feel, all i have to do is remember how lonely i was when i was married and suddenly that feeling goes away.


ditto...


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## Not

Sex? I’m single but am discovering the awesomeness of not actually needing a man. I never orgasmed when I was married and thought I wasn’t able to. I have recently discovered that is not the case at all lol! I love me some man but will be just fine without one for the time being! My moods have been awesome lately lol! 😁


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Sex? I’m single but am discovering the awesomeness of not actually needing a man. I never orgasmed when I was married and thought I wasn’t able to. I have recently discovered that is not the case at all lol! I love me some man but will be just fine without one for the time being! My moods have been awesome lately lol! 😁


Are you saying you just recently had your first orgasm? And now you’re on a roll! Rock it, sister. Check in when you come up for air eventually. If I hadn’t had one ever in my life and just now had one, I would quit my job and devote my life to it.

Having had them since before puberty, now I’m good. They don’t thrill me like they used to. Now sex is always about connection and I rarely masturbate. 

But if I could have the thrill back they once gave me, I’d take it for sure!


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> I am already in that camp. Despite the loneliness I sometimes feel, all I have to do is remember how lonely I was when I was married and suddenly that feeling goes away.


THIS! I never felt as lonely as I did when I was married. It was like my XH had the attitude of, "I married you, my job is done." He completely stopped trying, like it never occurred to him that I would even consider divorcing him.

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## FeministInPink

Not said:


> Sex? I’m single but am discovering the awesomeness of not actually needing a man. I never orgasmed when I was married and thought I wasn’t able to. I have recently discovered that is not the case at all lol! I love me some man but will be just fine without one for the time being! My moods have been awesome lately lol!


Way to go, lady! Live it up!

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## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Are you saying you just recently had your first orgasm? And now you’re on a roll! Rock it, sister. Check in when you come up for air eventually. If I hadn’t had one ever in my life and just now had one, I would quit my job and devote my life to it.
> 
> Having had them since before puberty, now I’m good. They don’t thrill me like they used to. Now sex is always about connection and I rarely masturbate.
> 
> But if I could have the thrill back they once gave me, I’d take it for sure!



Yep, late bloomer here! I do look forward to someday being close to someone again and who ever he ends up being he will have a very primed and ready chick on his hands! 😊


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## Lifescript

Read somewhere that only a low % of women actually orgasm during sex. I was shocked.


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## Ynot

Lifescript said:


> Read somewhere that only a low % of women actually orgasm during sex. I was shocked.


Don't be shocked. Make it your mission to change that!


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## Lifescript

Ynot said:


> Don't be shocked. Make it your mission to change that!




That’s why I was shocked lol. It’s been my mission  

One way or the other she’s coming.


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## hope4family

Unless you have religious requirements, want to have kids, or like the tax and legal benefits of marriage. I can't see a reason to get married again ever. 

I have 1 & 2 working against me, so might as well take advantage of the legal and tax sides. 

As to the dating circle. I am at the point where I get "heys" that I do not respond to because I can't fit them into the single Dad life. I also got some other things brewing in the pot. 

I still have 1 female that survived the original string of dates I went on. We see each other 1-2x per week. I can't comment on where it's headed as we haven't talked about it one way or the other. 

Although if things continue its current pace and no other female steps up. We might be in a relationship by valentines day. I don't see us seeing each other past then and it not be in committed relationship form. 


There is one new female that keeps messaging me after I write her off. So well try coffee and see where it goes. Her last message was "let's do coffee" now were at the sharing schedules phase.


----------



## Ynot

hope4family said:


> Unless you have religious requirements, want to have kids, or like the tax and legal benefits of marriage. I can't see a reason to get married again ever.
> 
> I have 1 & 2 working against me, so might as well take advantage of the legal and tax sides.
> 
> As to the dating circle. I am at the point where I get "heys" that I do not respond to because I can't fit them into the single Dad life. I also got some other things brewing in the pot.
> 
> I still have 1 female that survived the original string of dates I went on. We see each other 1-2x per week. I can't comment on where it's headed as we haven't talked about it one way or the other.
> 
> Although if things continue its current pace and no other female steps up. We might be in a relationship by valentines day. I don't see us seeing each other past then and it not be in committed relationship form.
> 
> 
> There is one new female that keeps messaging me after I write her off. So well try coffee and see where it goes. Her last message was "let's do coffee" now were at the sharing schedules phase.


Dude, you need to lay down #1, because it is just man made ie you are letting someone else tell you how you are supposed to live. But the reality is that you need to live the way you want to live, not the way someone tells you is the "right" way. No one should attempt to tell you how you relationship with God should be. Only you can find that true path, for yourself.
You may decide that you really wish to pursue #2, even if you have set aside #1. And that is cool. Once you do what you need to do you won't be as passive as you seem.


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## hope4family

Ynot said:


> Dude, you need to lay down #1, because it is just man made ie you are letting someone else tell you how you are supposed to live. But the reality is that you need to live the way you want to live, not the way someone tells you is the "right" way. No one should attempt to tell you how you relationship with God should be. Only you can find that true path, for yourself.
> You may decide that you really wish to pursue #2, even if you have set aside #1. And that is cool. Once you do what you need to do you won't be as passive as you seem.


Not really passive as much as it is me letting time move at it's own pace. Time can't punish you if you feel patient. 

At the moment, I'm mainly just trying to enjoy time with my son at this Christmas season.

As to my religious comments, I believe what I believe. I'm not here to convince someone else that my way is best either though. So that's why I wrote it the way I did.


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## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Read somewhere that only a low % of women actually orgasm during sex. I was shocked.


Well, most women need clitoral stimulation--very few can orgasm from PIV alone. Now, if you give her a few via clit stim beforehand, her likelihood of PIV orgasm increases but isn't guaranteed.

I've had some amazing PIV sex where I didn't orgasm, but it didn't make it any less amazing! But I will always appreciate the man who takes the time to make sure I orgasm as well.

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## Ynot

hope4family said:


> Not really passive as much as it is me letting time move at it's own pace. Time can't punish you if you feel patient.
> 
> At the moment, I'm mainly just trying to enjoy time with my son at this Christmas season.
> 
> As to my religious comments, I believe what I believe. I'm not here to convince someone else that my way is best either though. So that's why I wrote it the way I did.


Nothing wrong with moving at your own pace, as long as it is really your own pace and not someone else's. You seem to be content with taking your time, such as when you mention that you might be in a relationship by Valentines day. But I think that comes across as passive. Especially when you couple that with the fact that you are still going to go out with a woman because she wants to even though you had already written her off.


As for religion, I am not telling you what to believe or what not to believe. I am only telling you that religion will hold you back if what you intend is what you really want. Religion is nothing more that another man's idea of how your life should be lived. As long as you live by anyone's rules, you will always be held back from fulfilling your own potential

IMO, your whole post comes across as living your life under someone else's rules and hoping it brings you the happiness you seek.


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## Faithful Wife

Saw this and had to share!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KswaaSDIoc


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## Not

Lifescript said:


> Read somewhere that only a low % of women actually orgasm during sex. I was shocked.


I read that as well, probably a year ago and felt better after reading it but still wondered about myself. Then I read that PIV usually isn’t enough which shocked me because, for me, I enjoy PIV more than oral. I believe that if PIV could have lasted long enough I would have been orgasmic in my marraige but it was not meant to be.


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## RandomDude

Ok it's official, I'm having a midlife crisis, I just got a new car took it to the shop installed an aftermarket subwoofer with custom exhaust but not too loud, did it up like mad - took me a month, and now rolling around going boom boom, room room, and zoom zoom :/

Feels like a party on wheels now especially with my GF and I dancing and singing in the car on our road trips, dunno why I didn't do this before lol


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## FeministInPink

So, on Sunday I received a Facebook message from an old friend from college. He lives in Nevada now, but flies into DC every 4-6 weeks for work these days. He asked me if I wanted to get together sometime, and given that I had the next night off work, I agreed to meet him for drinks.

It never occurred to me that this might be a date until one of my coworkers suggested it, but I really didn't think much of it--he and I have kept in touch over the years, but I've never thought of him in a romantic way, even though he is an absolute delight. I've never felt a spark with him, or inferred any romantic intentions from his behavior.

We got together last night and had a lovely time. He is just as I remembered, with the obvious exception that we are both older and wiser now. We had great conversation and he would like to get together again when he is in town next time. 

The problem? It was clear to me from our night out that he would like to see if this could be more than friends. He made a comment about how he should have asked me out back when we were in college, and that he regrets that a bit. Among other clues throughout the evening. 

And I'm just not feeling it. He is an amazing person, and I enjoy his company, and is the type of person I would like to keep in my life as a friend. I've always felt that he is a kindred spirit. But there's no spark, no click, no attraction for me. He's a good looking guy, but I'm just not attracted to him.

I don't want to lead him on, so I will have to tell him at some point. But I am loathe to do something that will certainly hurt him... if he was someone I had just met, I would have no problem, but I've known him for 20 years, so he is someone I KNOW and who I care about, and that makes it harder. I suppose I could wait, because he hasn't made a hard pass at me yet, and one could argue that since he has made his interest clear, and I have not responded in kind, that I don't need to do anything else.

He asked if I would like to get together again the next time he is in town. And I said yes, because I DO want to see him. I enjoy his friendship, and I like spending time with him. I just don't want a romantic relationship with him.

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## Bananapeel

FIP, I've gone out with a couple friends that I've known for a long time and it definitely can cause problems if you two don't want the same thing. I always asked them on a "date" directly so there were no misconceptions. One ended really well because we had absolutely no chemistry, so it was a mutual decision to keep things as friends only. The other one I had liked for almost 20 years but on our second date it was obvious she wasn't really into me enough so I just stopped being friends with her because I realized I really only liked her romantically and not as a friend. So just be aware that your friendship could go in different directions depending on him and how honest he is with himself. I'm going to guess though that if he's just hinting he likes you and not going after a date directly and confidently he'll just go alone with whatever you say. Usually it's best to just be direct with guys like that rather than waiting for a good time to tell him.


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## Bananapeel

Update for me. I'm taking my girlfriend out of town for the weekend. It will be our first trip together and we're both really excited. I also have a big surprise for her that I'm working on. She's European and wants to take me to back to her home to meet her family over the summer. I don't speak the language so I'm learning it on my own. I figure that I want to understand her background better and seeing the country as just an American tourist won't really give me that perspective, so I'll learn the language so I can communicate more freely with the locals there. I know I can get by with just English but you get treated differently when you visit countries if you speak their native language. Fortunately, I'm good with languages and there are enough cognates in that language and a similar enough grammar that it really isn't that hard to learn. Six months should allow basic conversation skills with a 500-1000 word vocab. I'm keeping it a total surprise until our trip.


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> FIP, I've gone out with a couple friends that I've known for a long time and it definitely can cause problems if you two don't want the same thing. I always asked them on a "date" directly so there were no misconceptions. One ended really well because we had absolutely no chemistry, so it was a mutual decision to keep things as friends only. The other one I had liked for almost 20 years but on our second date it was obvious she wasn't really into me enough so I just stopped being friends with her because I realized I really only liked her romantically and not as a friend. So just be aware that your friendship could go in different directions depending on him and how honest he is with himself. I'm going to guess though that if he's just hinting he likes you and not going after a date directly and confidently he'll just go alone with whatever you say. Usually it's best to just be direct with guys like that rather than waiting for a good time to tell him.


He lives on the other side of the country, so it's not like we hang out on the regular anyway. He is the kind of guy who would be ok with and would want to keep me as a friend if I'm not interested romantically, and I think he's realistic enough to not hope that something would develop eventually if he keeps hanging put with me. I'll make a point to bring it up before he comes back to town.

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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> Update for me. I'm taking my girlfriend out of town for the weekend. It will be our first trip together and we're both really excited. I also have a big surprise for her that I'm working on. She's European and wants to take me to back to her home to meet her family over the summer. I don't speak the language so I'm learning it on my own. I figure that I want to understand her background better and seeing the country as just an American tourist won't really give me that perspective, so I'll learn the language so I can communicate more freely with the locals there. I know I can get by with just English but you get treated differently when you visit countries if you speak their native language. Fortunately, I'm good with languages and there are enough cognates in that language and a similar enough grammar that it really isn't that hard to learn. Six months should allow basic conversation skills with a 500-1000 word vocab. I'm keeping it a total surprise until our trip.


I love this 

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## Lifescript

FIP,

I went through something similar with a girl I knew from high school. Lovely girl but she didn’t see me that way. We went on a couple of dates or so I thought that’s what they were. No kiss or anything but she kept saying yes to going out until later she told me she couldn’t give me what I wanted. I would have wished she had said that from the get go. My advice would be to let the guy know as soon as possible.


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## FeministInPink

I will send him a message this week.

In other news, I have a date tonight! We are going to karaoke 

ETA: I realized that I should add more context. Slightly younger guy, who I met on Bumble. He was flirtatious from the beginning of our text conversation, but he didn't make it sexual. (Point for him.) Bumble requires that women send the first message, but he initiated the meet/asked me out after we chatted on/off for a few hours, which strikes me as a good sign for various reasons. He likes karaoke, which is a definite plus, and he wasn't weird when I suggested we go to a gay bar for karaoke. So he's cool like that.

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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I will send him a message this week.
> 
> In other news, I have a date tonight! We are going to karaoke
> 
> ETA: I realized that I should add more context. Slightly younger guy, who I met on Bumble. He was flirtatious from the beginning of our text conversation, but he didn't make it sexual. (Point for him.) Bumble requires that women send the first message, but he initiated the meet/asked me out after we chatted on/off for a few hours, which strikes me as a good sign for various reasons. He likes karaoke, which is a definite plus, and he wasn't weird when I suggested we go to a gay bar for karaoke. So he's cool like that.


OMG, does he know that you can SING??? Not (sing) but SING?????

In other words, does he know what a treat he has in store for himself to get to hear you?


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> OMG, does he know that you can SING??? Not (sing) but SING?????
> 
> In other words, does he know what a treat he has in store for himself to get to hear you?


Well, he does now 

The date was ok. I had fun, and he's a nice enough guy, but there wasn't really much of a spark. I would enjoy hanging out with him again, but there isn't much attraction, from my end, anyway. 

If he had been more of a gentleman, I would have liked him more. He wasn't rude or disrespectful by any stretch (quite the opposite, in fact), but he didn't do any of those little things... he didn't open the door for me, like that. He did walk me home (we went to the karaoke bar by my house), and he did ask me to dance during one of the songs, both of which were nice. But he also doesn't strike me as very assertive, and I want someone who's assertive and can balance being "the man" in a relationship with respect. (He came across more assertive when we were chatting--he definitively asked me out without much prompting.) He was also a little awkward initially, but got over that as the night progressed. 

I did notice a tattoo peeking out from under his sleeve, but I didn't ask, so that tells me there might be a little more to him than meets the eye, so I might go out with him again, if he asks. I think he will--he sent me a message on the app as soon as he got home.





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## 2&out

You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


It wasn’t my date, however, if a guy I’m on a date with can’t be assertive just because of the venue we are in, he’s not going to impress me much. 

Gay bars are usually some of the funnest, easiest places for early dates.


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Well, he does now
> 
> The date was ok. I had fun, and he's a nice enough guy, but there wasn't really much of a spark. I would enjoy hanging out with him again, but there isn't much attraction, from my end, anyway.
> 
> If he had been more of a gentleman, I would have liked him more. He wasn't rude or disrespectful by any stretch (quite the opposite, in fact), but he didn't do any of those little things... he didn't open the door for me, like that. He did walk me home (we went to the karaoke bar by my house), and he did ask me to dance during one of the songs, both of which were nice. But he also doesn't strike me as very assertive, and I want someone who's assertive and can balance being "the man" in a relationship with respect. (He came across more assertive when we were chatting--he definitively asked me out without much prompting.) He was also a little awkward initially, but got over that as the night progressed.
> 
> I did notice a tattoo peeking out from under his sleeve, but I didn't ask, so that tells me there might be a little more to him than meets the eye, so I might go out with him again, if he asks. I think he will--he sent me a message on the app as soon as he got home.



Yay! Maybe not a match but a fun date is always nice.

The door holding thing is always hard for me. On one hand I really don’t expect it and I don’t think anything one way or another about a guy who doesn’t hold doors. It’s not his job, it doesn’t matter.

But on the other hand, my feelings are greatly positive toward a date when he does open the doors. I can’t help it. It gives him bonus points in a way that men who don’t open doors will never understand. 

So while I don’t demand or expect a door holder, when I am with one, my heart is melting over the simple gesture and I do tend to end up in LTR’s only with door holders. I think non door holders are ok for awhile and I never, ever say anything about the doors. But I do end up losing interest.


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## 2&out

Once you know someone no problem - but to meet someone you don't know with potential romantic interest ? Not me. I wouldn't have agreed to it to begin with. To me a self respect thing - I mean how desperate does a guy have to be to go to a gay bar to meet for a first date ? LOL !


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Once you know someone no problem - but to meet someone you don't know with potential romantic interest ? Not me. I wouldn't have agreed to it to begin with. To me a self respect thing - I mean how desperate does a guy have to be to go to a gay bar to meet for a first date ? LOL !


Glad you just wouldn’t accept the date. That’s the best thing in that circumstance if you truly couldn’t be a mature person and enjoy yourself just because you were in a gay bar doing karaoke. Auto next.


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## bkyln309

2&out said:


> You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


I agree with this. A gay bar on the first date is not conductive for a straight man to relax and be his natural self. At least NOT on a first date.

Sounds like it was more you wanted to sing than wanting to be on the date with him. Next time, pick a place where you both can engage with each other and relax.


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> I agree with this. A gay bar on the first date is not conductive for a straight man to relax and be his natural self. At least NOT on a first date.
> 
> Sounds like it was more you wanted to sing than wanting to be on the date with him. Next time, pick a place where you both can engage with each other and relax.


Did you note that FIP actually gave the guy bonus points for thinking it was no big deal to go to a gay bar for karaoke? Do you think women should only do things that we think manly straight alphas males are willing to do and avoid things we think they may feel unmanly about? Because manly men are so unstable in their manliness that being in a gay bar with us might make them act unmanly? 

Again, auto next.


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## 2&out

Well Faithful, we are all products of our experiences. I have been to a few gay bars and I don't really like them - because I get hit on. That has never been or ever will be something I like or am comfortable with. That persuasion also seems to be especially handsy, and guys I don't know VERY well touching me makes me freak a bit. I have seen some pretty funny comedy though...


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## 2&out

Your correct about one statement you've repeated. Any chick that wants to or takes no consideration of and put me in an uncomfortable position is auto next. Pretty self centered only care what they think and aren't concerned how a potential partner might feel.


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Well Faithful, we are all products of our experiences. I have been to a few gay bars and I don't really like them - because I get hit on. That has never been or ever will be something I like or am comfortable with. That persuasion also seems to be especially handsy, and guys I don't know VERY well touching me makes me freak a bit. I have seen some pretty funny comedy though...


I can see why past experiences would make anyone reticent about future experiences, if one was worried about the same thing happening.

But do you honestly think gay men would hit on you and put their hands on you while you were on a date with a woman doing karaoke? Do you think that you would be so absolutely irresistible to the gay men there that they would come interupt your date with her just to touch you or hit on you? 

And let’s say that did happen. You went up to the bar or something and were temporarily away from your date and a guy hits on you or tries to flirt. At that point, do you think FIP would be afraid you might turn gay and leave her to run off with the guy? In other words, after you politely exit the flirter’s company and return to the table and tell FIP “yeah that one was flirting with me”, don’t you think she would probably just give a laugh and then you’d go back to normal conversation? If you couldn’t get over it, I’m sure she would be like “ugh, this guy is weird”.

I’m not saying straight dates in gay bars should be the norm or happen all the time, I’m just saying that if that’s the venue, it shouldn’t be a big deal.

As for getting hit on, this is possible on nearly any date, anywhere. You could be hit on by another straight woman if you went to a straight bar for a date. Why is it different? 

Again, I’m just saying for this one date for kareoke, it should not be a big deal, and as per FIP’s report, the gay bar aspect of it wasn’t a big deal.


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Your correct about one statement you've repeated. Any chick that wants to or takes no consideration of and put me in an uncomfortable position is auto next. Pretty self centered only care what they think and aren't concerned how a potential partner might feel.


Yes, any guy who needs special consideration because he isn’t comfortable going to a gay bar for karaoke would definitely not be someone I wanted to have any consideration for at all and I would be glad to know upfront he felt this way.


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## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Did you note that FIP actually gave the guy bonus points for thinking it was no big deal to go to a gay bar for karaoke? Do you think women should only do things that we think manly straight alphas males are willing to do and avoid things we think they may feel unmanly about? Because manly men are so unstable in their manliness that being in a gay bar with us might make them act unmanly?
> 
> Again, auto next.


NOT ON A FIRST DATE. Whether she gave him so called bonus points are not isnt the point. You need to consider both parties and put yourself in the best place to get to know each other. He is a straight man. The best place to get to know him better on the first date is not a gay bar. 

It has nothing to do with some rabid feminist ideas of one upping the man. Pushing his boundaries to show your womanhood and pushing your ideas of rightness on men. 
It has to do with using common sense and making another person most comfortable. Straight men are NOT most comfortable with strangers in gay bars. There are plenty of karaoke places in the city.

Gay bars are great but not on first dates.


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> NOT ON A FIRST DATE. Whether she gave him so called bonus points are not isnt the point. You need to consider both parties and put yourself in the best place to get to know each other. He is a straight man. The best place to get to know him better on the first date is not a gay bar.
> 
> It has nothing to do with some rabid feminist ideas of one upping the man. Pushing his boundaries to show your womanhood. It has to do with using common sense and making another person most comfortable. Straight men are NOT most comfortable with strangers in gay bars.


Thankfully not all men think a woman is a rabid feminist who wants to push her womanhood/agenda/boundaries just because she suggests a kareoke bar that is close to her home that also happens to be a gay bar for a first date.


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## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Thankfully not all men think a woman is a rabid feminist who wants to push her womanhood/agenda/boundaries just because she suggests a kareoke bar that is close to her home that also happens to be a gay bar for a first date.


I was responding to your alpha man nonsense. 

NOT FIP choice of a bar.


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## FeministInPink

2&out said:


> You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


The location wasn't my choice. He wanted to go out with me for karaoke, I mentioned about 4 different options for Wednesday night karaoke, and this was the one he chose. And he knows full well it's a gay bar, he's been there before.

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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> The location wasn't my choice. He wanted to go put with me for karaoke, I mentioned about 4 different options for Wednesday night karaoke, and this was the one he chose. And he knows full well it's a gay bar, he's been there before.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well if he picked it than thats different. But most straight men wouldnt as a first date.


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> I was responding to your alpha man nonsense.
> 
> NOT FIP choice of a bar.


You had agreed with a post by 2&out that said a gay bar is about the worst place for a straight alpha type guy. All of my comments mocking said straight alpha type guys came up because of his bringing up how fragile some guys are, so fragile that they would not even accept a date with her if she merely suggested a kareoke bar that was also a gay bar.


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## Bananapeel

2&out said:


> You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


Did you catch the part where FIP suggested it to him (with the other options) and he agreed? It's easy to tell he wasn't going to be an assertive man based on how the date was planned. An assertive man would have suggested the venue, transportation, time, date, etc. at the time he asked FIP out on the date. A passive man waits for the woman to make the suggestion and follows her lead. I don't really care about it being in a gay bar at all or consider that a problem with an assertive man, if that was HIS suggestion. 

@FeministInPink - if you decide to go out with him again pay close attention to who is setting the details of the date. If you want an assertive man then don't agree to a date if he doesn't take the lead in planning all of it without your prompting.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> I agree with this. A gay bar on the first date is not conductive for a straight man to relax and be his natural self. At least NOT on a first date.
> 
> Sounds like it was more you wanted to sing than wanting to be on the date with him. Next time, pick a place where you both can engage with each other and relax.


I will say again, he wanted to meet for karaoke, I told him all the place I knew that had karaoke on Wednesday night (4 or 5 options) and this is the one he chose. And he knew it was a gay bar, he'd been there before for work/political fundraisers. 

And I'll also add that their clientele tends to include a lot of straight people as well. I'd say about 30% last night.

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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> bkyln309 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. A gay bar on the first date is not conductive for a straight man to relax and be his natural self. At least NOT on a first date.
> 
> Sounds like it was more you wanted to sing than wanting to be on the date with him. Next time, pick a place where you both can engage with each other and relax.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say again, he wanted to meet for karaoke, I told him all the place I knew that had karaoke on Wednesday night (4 or 5 options) and this is the one he chose. And he knew it was a gay bar, he'd been there before for work/political fundraisers.
> 
> And I'll also add that their clientele tends to include a lot of straight people as well. I'd say about 30% last night.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

In Portland, that’s just called “a bar”.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> NOT ON A FIRST DATE. Whether she gave him so called bonus points are not isnt the point. You need to consider both parties and put yourself in the best place to get to know each other. He is a straight man. The best place to get to know him better on the first date is not a gay bar.
> 
> It has nothing to do with some rabid feminist ideas of one upping the man. Pushing his boundaries to show your womanhood and pushing your ideas of rightness on men.
> It has to do with using common sense and making another person most comfortable. Straight men are NOT most comfortable with strangers in gay bars. There are plenty of karaoke places in the city.
> 
> Gay bars are great but not on first dates.


He seemed totally fine and comfortable with strangers at a gay bar. There were even a few people who met him at the previous fundraising events there and said hello.

Nobody hit on him. People knew we were on a date. The people who know him know he plays for the away team, and one or two people who didn't know either of us said we made a cute couple. (Which was flattering.) 

And again, I'll repeat, I DID NOT CHOOSE THE VENUE.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> Did you catch the part where FIP suggested it to him (with the other options) and he agreed? It's easy to tell he wasn't going to be an assertive man based on how the date was planned. An assertive man would have suggested the venue, transportation, time, date, etc. at the time he asked FIP out on the date. A passive man waits for the woman to make the suggestion and follows her lead. I don't really care about it being in a gay bar at all or consider that a problem with an assertive man, if that was HIS suggestion.
> 
> @FeministInPink - if you decide to go out with him again pay close attention to who is setting the details of the date. If you want an assertive man then don't agree to a date if he doesn't take the lead in planning all of it without your prompting.


This is good advice. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Any guys want to weigh in on door holding? Do you do it? Do you like doing it? If you don’t do it, are you strongly against it?


----------



## Bananapeel

Faithful Wife said:


> Any guys want to weigh in on door holding? Do you do it? Do you like doing it? If you don’t do it, are you strongly against it?


I'm a door holder. It's the best way to check out her ass as she walks by.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guys want to weigh in on door holding? Do you do it? Do you like doing it? If you don’t do it, are you strongly against it?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a door holder. It's the best way to check out her ass as she walks by.
Click to expand...

Um...ok cool. Is that supposed to make me all wigged out or something? You can’t answer an honest question?

I’ll make my question easier. I always give my dates plenty of time to admire my ass in any number of situations including:

When I take off my coat

When I go to the restroom and walk away from the table

When I deliberately walk ahead of him to the car

When I stand up and have to “adjust my pants because these silly things always slip down”

Now....question: If you knew your date didn’t care at all when and where you were checking out her heavenly ass, and therefore did not have to hold doors in order to sneak a peek, are you a door opener for other reasons?


----------



## Bananapeel

That was an honest answer to the question. It's the absolute best time to take a peak without staring. 

As far as other times, well yes I still do it. It was how I was raised. Also, it makes sure my GF gets into the right car (yes, there's a funny story I could share) or goes into the right building. She sometimes gets so caught up in a conversation that she doesn't pay attention so I give her the cue by getting the door.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Bananapeel said:


> That was an honest answer to the question. It's the absolute best time to take a peak without staring.
> 
> As far as other times, well yes I still do it. It was how I was raised. Also, it makes sure my GF gets into the right car (yes, there's a funny story I could share)


Ok and if staring wasn’t a problem, like she has a fine ass and she’s totally ok with you staring at it anytime....then is it really the reason for opening the door?

Sometimes I think guys think they are “getting away with things” and they just want to think that, even if it’s being offered to them or isn’t scarce.


----------



## Bananapeel

It's how I was raised. Part of being polite. If she wants to get the door for me, I don't mind that.

Edit: I should probably ad that after I've been dating a woman for a while she knows I'm checking her out when she walks by (because I'm direct about it and own it) and they always seem to enjoy the flirtation.


----------



## hope4family

Faithful Wife said:


> Any guys want to weigh in on door holding? Do you do it? Do you like doing it? If you don’t do it, are you strongly against it?


I open doors in most situations. It's called being polite. I have a child, i'll raise him similar. If I had a daughter, I can't see me changing my mind. 

As to views of behinds. That's creepy, but sounds OK if you are in a relationship.


----------



## Bananapeel

Eh, creepy does not apply evenly. Just follow 3 simple rules: be handsome, be attractive, and don't be unattractive

https://view.yahoo.com/show/saturday-night-live/clip/40058288/sexual-harassment-and-you


----------



## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> Eh, creepy does not apply evenly. Just follow 3 simple rules: be handsome, be attractive, and don't be unattractive
> 
> https://view.yahoo.com/show/saturday-night-live/clip/40058288/sexual-harassment-and-you


Ha ha, I remember this skit... but, as is the case with humor, there is an element of truth as well.

However, what I have found to be the case with men I find unattractive but who have still made passes at me... they don't pick up the cues that I'm NOT INTERESTED, or they do, and they still make a pass. Which makes me even LESS interested, because it shows that they are only focused on what they want, and aren't even considering what I might want (or not want).


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guys want to weigh in on door holding? Do you do it? Do you like doing it? If you don’t do it, are you strongly against it?
> 
> 
> 
> I open doors in most situations. It's called being polite. I have a child, i'll raise him similar. If I had a daughter, I can't see me changing my mind.
> 
> As to views of behinds. That's creepy, but sounds OK if you are in a relationship.
Click to expand...

Yeah when a stranger holds your door and their only reason is to check out your ass, that is for sure creepy. 

But if my date checks out my ass, I just figure that’s normal (and that if they don’t catch a good glimpse then, they will later). I think most women understand that most men will be scanning their body shape over on a date. Some of us like it (I don’t match very well with a guy who doesn’t notice my shape).

I’m also checking his shape at every opportunity. I like man shapes.

I’m glad you are teaching your child. I’m grateful my son had good education on these matters from my ex. He was taught that it’s a simple kindness and courtesy and also extends to men any time you get to a door first, it’s polite to hold it for the next person.

When dating, it’s also nice to open the car door for a woman, but not so much female friends. It seems a little too romantic to have a car door opened by a guy who is just a friend. My son learned this too. But in some cases a woman isn’t a date but you still do it. For instance my ex h still opens doors but not car doors for me. However he would still today open the car door for my mother or any elderly person. My son has chosen to put me on the open the car door for list, which is sweet. He is 30 now.


----------



## Bananapeel

FIP, I completely get that and I think it's absolutely insane. I have boys that are pre-dating age and I regularly flirt with women around them as a teaching opportunity, then afterwards we go over whether the women were actually interested or just being polite and how to tell the difference. I also show them how to make that ascertation quickly and then not waste time on those that aren't interested so they also know how to quickly and politely end an interaction that isn't going anywhere. There's a problem in our society that a lot of boys aren't properly coached by a strong male role model on how to behave so they get into social situations where they are completely clueless then they don't understand why their attempts with women aren't working. Most women tend to be absolutely amazing communicators if the men just pay attention and watch the non-verbals.


----------



## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> FIP, I completely get that and I think it's absolutely insane. I have boys that are pre-dating age and I regularly flirt with women around them as a teaching opportunity, then afterwards we go over whether the women were actually interested or just being polite and how to tell the difference. I also show them how to make that ascertation quickly and then not waste time on those that aren't interested so they also know how to quickly and politely end an interaction that isn't going anywhere. There's a problem in our society that a lot of boys aren't properly coached by a strong male role model on how to behave so they get into social situations where they are completely clueless then they don't understand why their attempts with women aren't working. Most women tend to be absolutely amazing communicators if the men just pay attention and watch the non-verbals.


I absolutely applaud this.


----------



## 2&out

Geesh. Sorry I misinterpreted "and he wasn't weird when I suggested we go to a gay bar for karaoke." that FIP wrote.

On the son thing, some things are relative and situations are sometimes different. I feel I've taught my son (23) excellent manners and he is extremely polite. But these skills are for life in general not for trying to impress women. In his case he doesn't need to - they pursue him. Young women these days seem a lot more forward and aggressive than I remember but maybe I was too dumb to realize/notice.


----------



## Lila

@FeministInPink will you be giving him a second chance or is he going into the friend zone?


----------



## Lila

Per @Ynot"s encouragement, here is my contribution to the singles of TAM 2018 thread. 

I've met several men "in the wild" and through meet ups but have only gone on dates with three. 

The first was a pretty cool, semi-pro musician who, true to stereotype, was perpetually broke. My sister affectionately named him 5¢. Setting up dates was extremely difficult as he had to wait until the day of to know whether he could afford his half of the evening's activities. He was friend zoned after the first date because frankly I don't date Dutch. We went out a couple more times as friends but that fizzled due to the difficulty in scheduling anything. 

The second was a very, very attractive young accountant who let me know on the third date he was poly amorous. Yep, he had a live-in girlfriend waiting for him at home. Too bad because the first two dates were quick coffee grabs where we quickly learned we were two peas in a pod personality-wise. We did have fun on that third date but I'm glad he was upfront about the poly thing before we let it go too far. 

The third was a "blind" date. I had met the guy at my cousin's friends house but hadn't seen him in a couple of years. He was a very sweet man but there was no attraction on my end. I feel bad about that one. He's since asked me out "as friends" and we've had good times but there's no chemistry there and I know he's interested in more. Sigh. 

So as you can see, I'm 3 for 3 on the failed romantic dating front but the good news is that I have genuinely enjoyed myself on each and every date. 

I do like going out and meeting new people. Meetups are my favorite. I'm still trying to find groups with others in my own age bracket. I'm either the oldest or the youngest, both of which have been a lot of fun, but it would be nice to find people that relate to having a teenage kid in the house. As a side note, the people in the older age bracket groups go out all.of.the.time! They don't stay home for ****. Love them!


----------



## RandomDude

Bananapeel said:


> I'm a door holder. It's the best way to check out her ass as she walks by.


:rofl:

Hahaha!



Faithful Wife said:


> It wasn’t my date, however, if a guy I’m on a date with can’t be assertive just because of the venue we are in, he’s not going to impress me much.
> 
> Gay bars are usually some of the funnest, easiest places for early dates.


My GF would have dragged me out of the bar as soon as we walked in. 

She likes gays, but I have a habit of replicating accents and how people act, I do ze French accents, Asia ack cent, and even GAY accents - for fun... like totally girlfriend! ^_^ *flicks wrist*

She would be too embarrassed :grin2:


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> @FeministInPink will you be giving him a second chance or is he going into the friend zone?


Friend zone. I would be selling myself short otherwise. I know what I'm worth, and I know what I deserve.

If anything, Real Estate (my now ex-bf) taught me that I deserve more/better. He set the bar very high for any man I might date after him.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> She would be too embarrassed :grin2:


Well yes, I would think she would be embarassed for you if you went into an establishment and were literally mocking the patrons. Kind of like going into a mostly black bar and trying on your best "southern black" accent. Why would that be ok?


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> @FeministInPink will you be giving him a second chance or is he going into the friend zone?
> 
> 
> 
> Friend zone. I would be selling myself short otherwise. I know what I'm worth, and I know what I deserve.
> 
> If anything, Real Estate (my now ex-bf) taught me that I deserve more/better. He set the bar very high for any man I might date after him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Perfect.

And it’s all good because the friend zone guy needs a woman who digs him for who he is. 

It’s feels difficult to let people down sometimes, but it’s best. We all deserve to feel those sparks. Sometimes if they felt sparks for you they will be hurt by it initially. But later they will get it.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

FeministInPink said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> @FeministInPink will you be giving him a second chance or is he going into the friend zone?
> 
> 
> 
> Friend zone. I would be selling myself short otherwise. I know what I'm worth, and I know what I deserve.
> 
> If anything, Real Estate (my now ex-bf) taught me that I deserve more/better. He set the bar very high for any man I might date after him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

By friend-zone, how does that work? Do you actually tell him you just want to be friends? Or do you simply ghost or say sorry, no and leave it at that? You both go your separate ways. Do you expect he may want to just be friends?


----------



## Personal

2&out said:


> You went to a gay bar for an initial date and wanted him to be more assertive towards a woman ? A gay bar is about the worst place for an early date for a straight alpha type guy. Going to a gay bar is about as bright a light signal to NOT be assertive as I can think of. Poor choice of venue.


I don't mean to intrude, but as a reader of this discussion. I've gotta say I've never thought a gay bar, is a place where a heterosexual man can't be assertive and sure of himself.

Many years ago on a very early date with my wife, she had me go with her to a gay bar, to see a show with one of her self proclaimed "*** hag" friends.

Anyway she took me there, because she didn't know me very well and thought she would shock me. She thought I was quite conservative, mostly because I was a former (full-time) Regular Army soldier. Who outside my day job was a then (part-time) Army Reserve infantry Section Commander (Squad Leader). That had just successfully completed one of two promotion courses to be an infantry platoon sergeant.

Plus where she was taking me was a secret, with me not knowing what her plans were and where she was taking me that evening.

When we got there, I laughed and asked her is she trying to shock me, and she said yes. The thing is I was laughing because that didn't and doesn't shock me. Since the first time I got drunk in my life was during a gay bar pub crawl (at a famed strip for it) with two of my 18 year old gay friends when I was 15.

Though I don't bat that way at all, and have never been interested in that. I had fun and have seen plenty more than that. While the last time I had been to such a venue with other friends back then, was just a couple of weeks before that. So I told her all that and more (which shocked her). Since even then when I was 25, I could have filled a book with a smorgasbord of rich and varied life experiences.

Unless a so called straight "alpha" type guy, might bat both ways, or the other way and isn't facing it. I don't see why a gay bar would be intimidating to an "alpha" type guy, despite some of the hyper-masculinity that one can find within such venues.

At the end of the day/evening a gay venue can be cool, you can have a chat, enjoy the music and dance as well. Otherwise meh, it isn't a big deal.


----------



## FeministInPink

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> By friend-zone, how does that work? Do you actually tell him you just want to be friends? Or do you simply ghost or say sorry, no and leave it at that? You both go your separate ways. Do you expect he may want to just be friends?


If he contacts me and says he wants to go out again, then I'll be up front and tell him that I enjoyed our evening and his company, but that I didn't feel the chemistry that I need to move forward with a romantic sense, but that he is always welcome to join me and my friends for karaoke (as a friend). 

If he doesn't follow up, then I'll know that he either got my signals and doesn't plan to pursue, or he also recognized that there wasn't any chemistry and decided not to pursue.

Either way is fine with me. But I'm not going to follow up (without him contacting me) and say, hey, that was fun, but I don't want to pursue anything with you. If he really DID like me but picked up on my signals that I wasn't interested, I feel like following up to say, "hey, I don't like you that way" feels like it just adds insult to injury.

And honestly, I've been ghosted by enough guys to not feel bad about not contacting him.


----------



## FeministInPink

Personal said:


> I don't mean to intrude, but as a reader of this discussion. I've gotta say I've never thought a gay bar, is a place where a heterosexual man can't be assertive and sure of himself.
> 
> Many years ago on a very early date with my wife, she had me go with her to a gay bar, to see a show with one of her self proclaimed "*** hag" friends.
> 
> Anyway she took me there, because she didn't know me very well and thought she would shock me. She thought I was quite conservative, mostly because I was a former (full-time) Regular Army soldier. Who outside my day job was a then (part-time) Army Reserve infantry Section Commander (Squad Leader). That had just successfully completed one of two promotion courses to be an infantry platoon sergeant.
> 
> Plus where she was taking me was a secret, with me not knowing what her plans were and where she was taking me that evening.
> 
> When we got there, I laughed and asked her is she trying to shock me, and she said yes. The thing is I was laughing because that didn't and doesn't shock me. Since the first time I got drunk in my life was during a gay bar pub crawl (at a famed strip for it) with two of my 18 year old gay friends when I was 15.
> 
> Though I don't bat that way at all, and have never been interested in that. I had fun and have seen plenty more than that. While the last time I had been to such a venue with other friends back then, was just a couple of weeks before that. So I told her all that and more (which shocked her). Since even then when I was 25, I could have filled a book with a smorgasbord of rich and varied life experiences.
> 
> Unless a so called straight "alpha" type guy, might bat both ways, or the other way and isn't facing it. I don't see why a gay bar would be intimidating to an "alpha" type guy, despite some of the hyper-masculinity that one can find within such venues.
> 
> At the end of the day/evening a gay venue can be cool, you can have a chat, enjoy the music and dance as well. Otherwise meh, it isn't a big deal.


You're not intruding--anyone reading is welcome to offer their opinion.

And your response is exactly what I would expect from a confident, assertive man.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Personal said:


> I don't mean to intrude, but as a reader of this discussion. I've gotta say I've never thought a gay bar, is a place where a heterosexual man can't be assertive and sure of himself.
> 
> Many years ago on a very early date with my wife, she had me go with her to a gay bar, to see a show with one of her self proclaimed "*** hag" friends.
> 
> Anyway she took me there, because she didn't know me very well and thought she would shock me. She thought I was quite conservative, mostly because I was a former (full-time) Regular Army soldier. Who outside my day job was a then (part-time) Army Reserve infantry Section Commander (Squad Leader). That had just successfully completed one of two promotion courses to be an infantry platoon sergeant.
> 
> Plus where she was taking me was a secret, with me not knowing what her plans were and where she was taking me that evening.
> 
> When we got there, I laughed and asked her is she trying to shock me, and she said yes. The thing is I was laughing because that didn't and doesn't shock me. Since the first time I got drunk in my life was during a gay bar pub crawl (at a famed strip for it) with two of my 18 year old gay friends when I was 15.
> 
> Though I don't bat that way at all, and have never been interested in that. I had fun and have seen plenty more than that. While the last time I had been to such a venue with other friends back then, was just a couple of weeks before that. So I told her all that and more (which shocked her). Since even then when I was 25, I could have filled a book with a smorgasbord of rich and varied life experiences.
> 
> Unless a so called straight "alpha" type guy, might bat both ways, or the other way and isn't facing it. I don't see why a gay bar would be intimidating to an "alpha" type guy, despite some of the hyper-masculinity that one can find within such venues.
> 
> At the end of the day/evening a gay venue can be cool, you can have a chat, enjoy the music and dance as well. Otherwise meh, it isn't a big deal.


Not a big deal. At all.

And if a gay bar is a big deal, I know for sure my date can’t handle the reality of my life. Which is fine, better to know sooner than later. 

Also it would mean he’s “not from around here”, which is the nice way that Portland people describe people who aren’t woke.


----------



## FeministInPink

So, the karaoke date guy didn't pick up on my signals, and he's texted me a few times (but hasn't asked for second date). I feel that ghosting is beyond rude, so I sent him a message today saying that I had fun, but there wasn't any spark or chemistry for me, so I didn't see this going any farther.

It's something I hate doing, but it had to be done.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Bananapeel

So, instead of doing a Christmas gift exchange I took my GF out of town for the weekend and we had an amazing vacation. She's not used to getting so spoiled and really appreciated it, especially knowing how selective I am with my time and resources and that I don't share with everyone (i.e. she gets special treatment from me that no one else gets). We created some great memories between us that we'll be able to laugh at for a really long time, but I can't in good conscious talk about them here. One thing I can share is we were waiting for our dinner table at the restaurant's bar and she tried to buy the drinks but I couldn't let her. I looked her in the eyes and told her she was looking so beautiful that some guy here was going to buy her a drink and it really should be me. I don't know what it is but my sweet side really comes out with her and my a-hole side naturally gets mostly repressed.


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> So, the karaoke date guy didn't pick up on my signals, and he's texted me a few times (but hasn't asked for second date). I feel that ghosting is beyond rude, so I sent him a message today saying that I had fun, but there wasn't any spark or chemistry for me, so I didn't see this going any farther.
> 
> It's something I hate doing, but it had to be done.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Good job, it’s hard but it’s best.

Do you have plans for the holidays, do you have family around?


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Well yes, I would think she would be embarassed for you if you went into an establishment and were literally mocking the patrons. Kind of like going into a mostly black bar and trying on your best "southern black" accent. Why would that be ok?


Mocking? It's acting! And it's fun when I do it right!  Accents are great and should be celebrated!

If I wanted to mock them I wouldn't be trying to act the part, I would be deliberately acting offensively which I don't unless I want to taunt someone, which I do from time to time too


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes, I would think she would be embarassed for you if you went into an establishment and were literally mocking the patrons. Kind of like going into a mostly black bar and trying on your best "southern black" accent. Why would that be ok?
> 
> 
> 
> Mocking? It's acting! And it's fun when I do it right! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" ></a> Accents are great and should be celebrated!
> 
> If I wanted to mock them I wouldn't be trying to act the part, I would be deliberately acting offensively which I don't unless I want to taunt someone, which I do from time to time too <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure if a straight man went into a gay bar and was “acting like them” by being flamboyant and flicking his wrist, the gay patrons would feel he was mocking them.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Good job, it’s hard but it’s best.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have plans for the holidays, do you have family around?


I'm at my parents' home, visiting with the family. I don't really like being here, but I feel obligated, and I have been missing Real Estate something fierce this week, yesterday and today especially.

I think it's just the holiday season, and New Year's is coming up... I spent the last two NYEs with him, and this year I'm not. And the fact that I'm *supposed* to be happy during the holidays makes it so much worse.

ETA: And my mom has been talking non stop and won't shut up and yet she hasn't asked a single question about me or how I'm doing. This is one of the reasons I hate being here. Everything is about HER.


----------



## Not

My first xmas as a single mom went great! My son is home on leave so I had all three over here with me on xmas eve. They’re with their dad today. I bought my son a Roku TV for his room in the barracks because his room mate moved out and took his TV with him. My son is uber happy with it. Poor kid was sitting in his room with nothing but his phone for entertainment in the evenings because his laptop died. My two oldest are both over 21 now so of course they bought each other booze lol! After opening gifts we all camped out on the couch with popcorn and watched Bird Box with Sandra Bullock, good movie. 

The first thing my son did after getting to his dads house this morning was ask his dad for the Netflix password so he can watch Netflix on the new TV and things got a little crappy at that point. X couldn’t remember the password or email he used when he took my name off the account and switched it over to his direct debit account a year ago and made my son call me to figure it out. No clue why he thought I would know how to figure this out when it’s in his name but he was in the background pushing my son to tell me to do this and to do that and to call customer service. I could hear so much stress in my sons voice. I told my son I’d try and then call him back. So we hang up, I checked laundry, made a bagel then took the recycling out then called back and said I couldn’t figure it out. I don’t even know what to think anymore when it comes to my x, there are so many screws loose, so much dysfunction.

It’s sometimes hard to remember to be thankful for what I have now because I’m still dealing with fears of being alone but I am thankful, so thankful that I’m away from all of that and that I have a beautiful home all my own and my kids have a place to go to get away from him when they need to. So I’m smiling on this Christmas Day, my first, done my way. Merry Christmast everyone!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Sad days here. Majorly depressed and just trying to drag through it all. Would feel better if I had godparents for my dogs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sad days here. Majorly depressed and just trying to drag through it all. Would feel better if I had godparents for my dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m sorry Elizabeth. (Hugs)


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## Ynot

I am hanging out in hotel in St Augustine Florida. Stopped at my son’s on way down and then headed to Georgia. We went to Savannah and hit 4 bars. Didn’t go to bed until 4am. Then went out and played 22 holes of golf. I went back to Savannah yesterday and spent the day seeing things besides bars. Then I hit 3 new places last night. Today I meandered down US 17 to Florida and then jumped on Fl A1A and hit Amelia Island.


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## TooNice

I’ve gone out of state for the past few Christmases, but my new job made that unrealistic this year. I wasn’t really sure what the last couple days would look like. My son has been out of town for a few days-at his girlfriend’s family, then with his dad’s side. So on Christmas Eve, I went out with a friend who is also divorced and her kids were away-and we had a blast.

So last week, I had an awesome first date with a new man. I knew he had no plans today, so on a whim, I called and invited him to a gathering at my aunt’s house. AND HE CAME! We had a great time, and got to spend some time together after. Really weird second date, but it made Christmas really enjoyable for us both. 

My son got home not long after I did, and I realized it’s the first time I’ve seen him on Christmas Day since the divorce. Happy momma here.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> I am hanging out in hotel in St Augustine Florida. Stopped at my son’s on way down and then headed to Georgia. We went to Savannah and hit 4 bars. Didn’t go to bed until 4am. Then went out and played 22 holes of golf. I went back to Savannah yesterday and spent the day seeing things besides bars. Then I hit 3 new places last night. Today I meandered down US 17 to Florida and then jumped on Fl A1A and hit Amelia Island.


Savannah is fun--I spent Thanksgiving week there a few years ago, and had a blast!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sad days here. Majorly depressed and just trying to drag through it all. Would feel better if I had godparents for my dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel you, sister. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sad days here. Majorly depressed and just trying to drag through it all. Would feel better if I had godparents for my dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Hugs from here, too. It can be so hard, but you’re not alone.


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## ReformedHubby

I am from Savannah originally. Its cool to hear that folks dig your hometown. I didn't see it as a unique place until I moved away. I don't have the accent though. Well...on a few words I do.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> I’ve gone out of state for the past few Christmases, but my new job made that unrealistic this year. I wasn’t really sure what the last couple days would look like. My son has been out of town for a few days-at his girlfriend’s family, then with his dad’s side. So on Christmas Eve, I went out with a friend who is also divorced and her kids were away-and we had a blast.
> 
> So last week, I had an awesome first date with a new man. I knew he had no plans today, so on a whim, I called and invited him to a gathering at my aunt’s house. AND HE CAME! We had a great time, and got to spend some time together after. Really weird second date, but it made Christmas really enjoyable for us both.
> 
> My son got home not long after I did, and I realized it’s the first time I’ve seen him on Christmas Day since the divorce. Happy momma here.


I had a similar first date this past Easter. Turned out she did not live in the immediate area. We ended up going back to her elderly parents house. Her younger sisters and their friends were having a party. It was a fun time.


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Sad days here. Majorly depressed and just trying to drag through it all. Would feel better if I had godparents for my dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry you are feeling blue. I was feeling bad sitting in a hotel room by myself on Xmas eve and then Xmas night. But then I realized I had complete freedom and went out and found something to do. So find something to do and don’t let life suck you down!


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## lifeistooshort

This Christmas was definitely different for me. Much quieter......

I made dinner for myself and my boys Christmas eve, then breakfast Christmas morning. They went to their dad's for dinner and I met the guy I've been out with a few times for a movie. 

He mentioned that he was going to dinner with his parents and brothers, and I considered for a minute that it was just going to be me for the evening. But I was ok with that.....I spoke to my mom and niece on the phone and hung out with three affectionate cats. I'd say it was a nice evening. 

I did meet a group Christmas morning to run, and that was nice.


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## Livvie

I had my boys with me for last weekend though today, they just went to their dad's until next week. For some reason missing them more than usual. I think even if I were in a new relationship, I'd still be missing them.


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## Bananapeel

Holy crap. I'm in love.


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## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> Holy crap. I'm in love.


Haha, YAY!!


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## FeministInPink

Been quiet in here as of late. Hope you all are doing well.

The holidays had me feeling a bit melancholy and that combined with stress intensified how much I've been missing Real Estate. I still think of him quite often. And @Faithful Wife's post about empathy got me thinking about our relationship, but from his perspective rather than my own, which brought me to some new revelations, one of which is that I am as much at fault as he was for our relationship ending. I believed I had given him plenty of proof that I wouldn't leave him, but he still clung to the idea that our relationship would end eventually because I would leave him. I have recently realized I had actually done the exact opposite, from his perspective: from his point of view, whenever he began expressing doubts about the longevity of our relationship (by saying our relationship wouldn't last and maybe we should just end it), it triggered my fears of abandonment, and I would panic and run. So from his POV, I was always running away. (Yes, he was trying to break up with me in these instances, but he didn't actually want me to leave, as demonstrated by the fact that every time he did this he was simultaneously literally asking me not to leave, but in my panic/triggered emotional state I couldn't hear him.) If I had really wanted to prove to him that I wasn't going to leave, I should have fought my panic and flipped the script, and changed my reaction: talk through his doubts, rather than running, to show him I wasn't leaving. And I realized how much this must have hurt him every time this happened in our relationship--he was in just as much pain as I was. Whether or not this would have changed the eventual outcome of our relationship, I do not know, nor will I ever know.

And when I came to this understanding, I knew immediately that I wanted to at the very least apologize, and got in touch with him several days ago. I'm not going to go into details, but none of that turned out well at all (part of which includes both of us behaving/reacting to one another badly, for which we both apologized, but still means things ended on a sour note). Even so, I know that at the very least I have communicated the above to him, and my own actions have shown me that while I have grown a lot over years since my divorce, especially during my time with Real Estate, I still have a lot to learn and a lot of room for improvement. Most importantly is that I need to learn to be less reactive and more self-aware when I get emotional. I have also learned that while we were together we made each other happy and helped one another grow in a number of ways, there were a lot of ways that we triggered one another, and that was the real reason why our relationship couldn't continue. I may miss him and I am certainly lonely without him, but I have realized that I am better off without him, because the only way I can embrace change and grow is on my own. I've heard it said that sometime the person you want most in your life is the same person you are best off without, and I believe that applies here.

And so I have decided that for 2019, I will be focusing on myself. I will be focusing on my personal growth and working towards several important goals for myself that I have identified in the past few months since Real Estate and I split. Part of this is includes not dating for the foreseeable future, and I will just have to learn how to deal with the occasional roar of loneliness. I want to be the best version of myself, or at least on the way to that point, so that I am ready for THE GUY when I find him, and I know I am not there yet.

This coming week is a big planning week. I will be focusing on creating my vision board and creating a plan to move forward in the new year. Beginning this week, I will be spending far less time on TAM. I love you all, but this is a huge time suck (as is most screen time) and it's not helping me to get closer to my goals. I will likely post something a little later this week to share with all of you some of these goals, and after this week, I will check in from time to time to see how you all are doing, and give some updates on my progress. I will continue to receive PMs, of course, and for those of you who are friends of mine on Facebook, you'll still see me there (but I'm going to start limiting time on Facebook as well).


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Been quiet in here as of late. Hope you all are doing well.
> 
> The holidays had me feeling a bit melancholy and that combined with stress intensified how much I've been missing Real Estate. I still think of him quite often. And @Faithful Wife's post about empathy got me thinking about our relationship, but from his perspective rather than my own, which brought me to some new revelations, one of which is that I am as much at fault as he was for our relationship ending. I believed I had given him plenty of proof that I wouldn't leave him, but he still clung to the idea that our relationship would end eventually because I would leave him. I have recently realized I had actually done the exact opposite, from his perspective: from his point of view, whenever he began expressing doubts about the longevity of our relationship (by saying our relationship wouldn't last and maybe we should just end it), it triggered my fears of abandonment, and I would panic and run. So from his POV, I was always running away. (Yes, he was trying to break up with me in these instances, but he didn't actually want me to leave, as demonstrated by the fact that every time he did this he was simultaneously literally asking me not to leave, but in my panic/triggered emotional state I couldn't hear him.) If I had really wanted to prove to him that I wasn't going to leave, I should have fought my panic and flipped the script, and changed my reaction: talk through his doubts, rather than running, to show him I wasn't leaving. And I realized how much this must have hurt him every time this happened in our relationship--he was in just as much pain as I was. Whether or not this would have changed the eventual outcome of our relationship, I do not know, nor will I ever know.
> 
> And when I came to this understanding, I knew immediately that I wanted to at the very least apologize, and got in touch with him several days ago. I'm not going to go into details, but none of that turned out well at all (part of which includes both of us behaving/reacting to one another badly, for which we both apologized, but still means things ended on a sour note). Even so, I know that at the very least I have communicated the above to him, and my own actions have shown me that while I have grown a lot over years since my divorce, especially during my time with Real Estate, I still have a lot to learn and a lot of room for improvement. Most importantly is that I need to learn to be less reactive and more self-aware when I get emotional. I have also learned that while we were together we made each other happy and helped one another grow in a number of ways, there were a lot of ways that we triggered one another, and that was the real reason why our relationship couldn't continue. I may miss him and I am certainly lonely without him, but I have realized that I am better off without him, because the only way I can embrace change and grow is on my own. I've heard it said that sometime the person you want most in your life is the same person you are best off without, and I believe that applies here.
> 
> And so I have decided that for 2019, I will be focusing on myself. I will be focusing on my personal growth and working towards several important goals for myself that I have identified in the past few months since Real Estate and I split. Part of this is includes not dating for the foreseeable future, and I will just have to learn how to deal with the occasional roar of loneliness. I want to be the best version of myself, or at least on the way to that point, so that I am ready for THE GUY when I find him, and I know I am not there yet.
> 
> This coming week is a big planning week. I will be focusing on creating my vision board and creating a plan to move forward in the new year. Beginning this week, I will be spending far less time on TAM. I love you all, but this is a huge time suck (as is most screen time) and it's not helping me to get closer to my goals. I will likely post something a little later this week to share with all of you some of these goals, and after this week, I will check in from time to time to see how you all are doing, and give some updates on my progress. I will continue to receive PMs, of course, and for those of you who are friends of mine on Facebook, you'll still see me there (but I'm going to start limiting time on Facebook as well).


Epiphanies are good!

And with this post let's put the 2018 thread to bed and start the all new 2019 thread.


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## FeministInPink

For those interested in continuing the conversation on the new thread, you can find it here:

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/430863-singles-tam-2019-a.html


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