# What does the cheater think/feel?



## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

In an effort to understand my wife's feelings, I wonder what emotions are going through her and what she is really thinking. My best friend says, from his own experience and from what I told him that she knows what she did was wrong and hurtful and that she's probably feeling extremely guilty. My best friend is not married, has had far too many girlfriends and has cheated on all of them. Only in recent years has he gotten serious with one girl and can look back on the mistakes he made etc.

So, for those that have cheated, were caught, what were your feelings towards yourself and your husband after? In the days after, the weeks, the months?

One things my wife has said is "I don't deserve you." My answer was maybe a little silly but I said "I don't deserve 100,000 dollars a month for the work I do, but if my company offered it, I would take it and do whatever it took to keep them paying me that money. I would put in more effort than I normally would." She has also said "I don't think I can be a good wife or a good mother." We don't have kids yet but she may have hinted at it last night when talking about vitamins she recently order that were "...OK to take even if I'm pregnant."


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

RWB said:


> My wife had multiple affairs (3) before she slipped up and was caught. I asked her that very question about "what were you thinking". She said at first, there was guilt about what she was doing. She said she new it was very wrong, but she enjoyed the attention so much that she just buried the shame. After a years of affairs, she no longer felt she was hurting me or our children and justified her ways because "I no longer loved her". I asked her how she could ever see me as loving husband when she was sneaking around and sleeping with other men. How could she except my love for her when she was "running me down" with other men. She says she was trapped. Didn't want a divorce but wanted the thrill and attention of the affair. She knew it was selfish but loved the fantasy. She told me she would slip off her rings and become another person. In retropect, it seems after the first affair was over she wanted another. She would email men she knew and worked with and flirt up. She needed that fix.


Are you still with her?


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

My thoughts exactly, once is enough:scratchhead:, but everyone has a different tolerance level, and also, you only got half the truth, you will never get 100% truth from a cheater, they are not that honest to begin with


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Feel for you RWB, I find the continued lying, the most irritating of all, I once came close to a PA and the guilt was very strong, it would have been so easy to 'cross the line'..even if a person doesn't 'cross that line' it still affects the marriage..I still feel guilty for 'almost' having a PA, but my kids kept pounding my brain:scratchhead:..so I imagine the people who do feel guily, eventually find a way to supress it or justify it..To me..I cheated because I almost did, if that makes sense...the feeling I have is if it sucks that bad in the marriage, don't be selfish, get out before it happens..I can only imagine having the hurt 3x's as strong as is your situation...31 yrs..wow..I thought 17 was long.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> My thoughts exactly, once is enough, but everyone has a different tolerance level, and also, you only got half the truth, you will never get 100% truth from a cheater, they are not that honest to begin with


No one is perfect, and everyone, all of us, are susceptible to an affair, given the right circumstances. It is only through diligent, deliberate work, that any of us can have an affair-proof marriage. 

Nearly ALL who fall for the temptation to cheat do so because they are looking for a solution to a problem they sense at home. I have YET, in all the time I've been involved in this, to find _one_ single person who cheats because they are simply dishonest. Not discounting the idea that they may exist - but haven't run into that yet. The dishonesty comes as a result of choosing to have an affair, the affair does not happen due to dishonesty - at least in every case with which I've ever been involved.

Tis true, everyone has a different tolerance level - and the first occurrence is moral justification for divorce. But I tend to think that much of the trouble we face nowadays is because almost NO one has been taught what it means to keep their word, and affairs are so prevalent because of this; and that in a sad but evident consequence that a broken promise may lead to actually learning HOW to keep a promise: in which case, recovery after an affair is more than just bettering a marriage: it is also an experience in learning the definition of honor.

'Nuff soap box...


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

pete..you are correct about the dishonesty issue, I guess I meant they would not be dishonest in disclosing all the details

but if a person were to come clean with their spouse, not every detail, just admission of it, then I feel a recovery is possible, if the betraying spouse waits too long to come clean, IMO, too much time passes for a true recovery, not saying it can't happen(tolerance level), just makes it more difficult..I admitted to almost cheating, but like you mentioned, never worked on the underlying issues.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I was wondering what the cheater thinks/feels AFTER being caught. My wife seems to feel a distance (So do I) even though we are talking everyday. We don't talk about our marriage (Which could be the reason for that distance) but that's because she says "I need time to fix myself." Right now it seems as though work is a priority. Whether that's an excuse or if she's looking to make an exit an needs the financial stability there first OR she really just needs more time away from home...I don't know.

In the beginning there was panic and some remorse (Not as much as I had hoped). Then anger it seemed, trying to turn the tables and make it seem my fault (Perhaps trying to reason her actions) then came a bit of calm where she opened up about areas in our marriage where she wasn't happy. I've taken steps to better those areas. Then she went about a week feeling depressed and very negative about everything. Today, although she feels a bit under the weather, she's a bit less depressed.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

It take a lot of courage for a spouse to come out and say the things that make them unhappy and why they want to leave, regardless if it is not the true reasons, there is some truth in those reasons, IMO, when the time comes for them to utter those reasons, there has already been a lot of history of negative thoughts to that point, basically they have already reached an emotional or emotionless limit, and a week, 2 weeks, a month even a year of you TRYING does not mean they see a difference, we are talking years of negative feelings which cannot be sugar coated, it is how they feel, to them it is valid, real, now add a possible EA/PA in that mix and the chances are that much slimmer, think about it,they had such a negative outlook in their marriage, they decided to exit, if an EA/PA exist, then they have found some kind of relief, and that is going to be a real uphill battle for you and them.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

After I caught her I gave her the chance to exit. In the beginning she said she didn't want a divorce, she didn't want to leave, she wanted to stay. I waited a few days and asked again, giving her the chance to leave. She said no. She did come out and say 'this is wrong' and 'that wasn't what I wanted' when it came to certain issues in our married life, but I FEEL I did do a lot to make her happy. Although I do realize that what I DID and what she WANTED may be two different things.

I have to wonder though if some of what she says is her grasping at reasons to bring to the table to say 'See...this happened.' in order to make me feel guilty and trying to bring my guilt up to her level. I just wonder...she hasn't said anything else discouraging about our marriage in the last couple weeks.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

They see no reason to bring it up, therefore the silence of 'nothings wrong', while inside a sea of emotion is boiling over, you have a great tolerance level, even superman had his limits (kryptonite), so until the issues are faced like 'tanel' suggest, I see no progress from your current position.


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## moonlover (Dec 30, 2009)

It strange how my feeling are impacted and change as the years go by. My husband slept with more than 20 women during our marriage. I slept with 2 after I found out about his. When he found out about mines, he went into a state of depression then obsession with me and my every move. Putting key loggers on my computer, cloning my cell phone, looking at the cell phone bill to see where I was via the tower location in the cell bill. He will look at the credit card and see when are where I put gas in the car. Then just yesterday after 4 year post affair he questions me if I am having an affair. I got out the good book and placed my hands on it. Then I told him the truth. I have not had an affair. I then asked him if he did and he told me not really. Said that he has had 4 hand jobs from the massage lady. He said that is certainly not the same me with my emotional affairs. He is so annoying and really at this point I wish I could leave and let him be free of me and my non-supportive role. I just feel drained and I really think being alone is best for me.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

How do I bring it up without her feeling pushed? She says she needs time to 'fix herself'. What can I do but wait? She has been sick the last 2 days, stress takes a toll on her stomach. I know she's just coming off her PMS, that has impacted things over the week, but I've handled it with care. I don't want to talk details about the affair, I've told her how I've felt (The pain) and that I want to fix things between us, coming out a stronger couple. Without knowing her feelings now, it's hard to move beyond NOW...hard to put into words...


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## NotJustMe (Jun 24, 2010)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> How do I bring it up without her feeling pushed? She says she needs time to 'fix herself'. What can I do but wait? She has been sick the last 2 days, stress takes a toll on her stomach. I know she's just coming off her PMS, that has impacted things over the week, but I've handled it with care. I don't want to talk details about the affair, I've told her how I've felt (The pain) and that I want to fix things between us, coming out a stronger couple. Without knowing her feelings now, it's hard to move beyond NOW...hard to put into words...


Her working on herself and her working on your marriage are not mutually exclusive actions. Let her know this. She is either willing to work on the marriage or she is not, but right now she isn't letting you know one way or the other. Right now she is basically saying "I don't feel like focusing on our marriage right now, so let me procrastinate by 'fixing myself' for a while."

You need to stand up and let her know that "I don't feel like it right now" isn't an excuse you are going to accept forever. People do things every day that they "don't feel like doing right now".

The bottom line is that the question she needs to answer is "Do I want to put the effort into this marriage that it will take to make it work?" which, when you break it down to the basics is really a very simple Yes or No question.

If her answer is yes, then let her know that it is time for you two to put together a plan as to how you will both be working on the relationship, and then start acting upon it. If her answer is no, then it is time to put together a plan for dissolving the marriage.

Either way, the answer is Yes or the answer is No. "I need time to fix myself" is not an option.


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Good advice, I'm in a similar situation. In our case both of us have singular issues that we are addressing first. We've discussed and agreed that taking a bit of time as individuals will be a benefit. We've been careful not to make the time-to-decide-if-we-stay-married-or-not limited, a couple of months. Meantime we're seeing a couples therapist and putting in sessions as a couple and as individuals. If you're not doing that yet I strongly recommend.

Oddly enough, in my case I'm seeing signs that this time apart may work to our (that is, the marriage's) advantage. We did several weekends with me taking the kids away, leaving her the house to herself. Last weekend I went away, leaving her there with the kids and without my physical/emotional support. She had some trouble and when I came back she experienced two days of a kind of emotional upheaval. She didn't share all of the details with me, but was clearly upset, and gave me the impression that she was applying a more critical eye to her recent behavior. It's too soon for a reversal on her part, but my continued patience appears to be the best thing, for our situation. Believe me, that ain't easy, either.

Guess my point is that, if you favor giving her space and think it will truly help, do it. But do set limits, make sure the time is being used for self-work rather than delays, and make sure you're in couples therapy. 



NotJustMe said:


> Her working on herself and her working on your marriage are not mutually exclusive actions. Let her know this. She is either willing to work on the marriage or she is not, but right now she isn't letting you know one way or the other. Right now she is basically saying "I don't feel like focusing on our marriage right now, so let me procrastinate by 'fixing myself' for a while."
> 
> You need to stand up and let her know that "I don't feel like it right now" isn't an excuse you are going to accept forever. People do things every day that they "don't feel like doing right now".
> 
> ...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Her 'time' is being used well, according to her.

If she feels she's getting the best of both worlds then I suppose she's continuing to be selfish. I don't think my heart could handle another EA. I told her very early on that if she feels the need to be with someone else to wait until the ink is dry on the divorce papers. She was upset to think thay I would think she would allow something like that to happen again. I've been imagining (and I know its not good for my health) that she gets involved again then I leave. If she's going through 'withdrawal' then I was hoping that there would be a general idea of what the WS would think/feel/do. I've set my own timetable for how much time I'm willing to be patient (end of summer). By then it's Yes or No time...at least that's what I say/think now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flowergirl77 (Jun 8, 2010)

I can relate to your situation. My HB and I have gone over the 'should we stay or go' many times since my affair has come to light. We together have decided:
1) we will both work on ourselves as individuals (we both see separate councilors, and we are reading self-help books)
2) We will focus on the positives in our life, and try and build new memories and positive feelings in our marriage. Also, making sure we are relating to eachother in a respectful, polite way.
3) Take it one day at a a time, we are not deciding anything yet. I have read it can take 6 months+ to begin to heal from an affair, and this is ONLY once the affair has completely ended. If one is still even a little bit engaged with another person, the repair can not begin. You can only put the past behind you , if it is indeed in the past. If she is not willing to break it off completely with the 'outsiders' in this situation, you will not even begin to repair and heal. She has to make a decision that while she is 'working on herself' she is not engaged in ANY communication or contact with any other men. That will be a difficult for her, I will not lie to you.What Pete says above is bang on..read it a few more times!


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## flowergirl77 (Jun 8, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> No one is perfect, and everyone, all of us, are susceptible to an affair, given the right circumstances. It is only through diligent, deliberate work, that any of us can have an affair-proof marriage.
> 
> Nearly ALL who fall for the temptation to cheat do so because they are looking for a solution to a problem they sense at home. I have YET, in all the time I've been involved in this, to find _one_ single person who cheats because they are simply dishonest. Not discounting the idea that they may exist - but haven't run into that yet. The dishonesty comes as a result of choosing to have an affair, the affair does not happen due to dishonesty - at least in every case with which I've ever been involved.
> 
> ...



I agree with this..I have been a completely honest spouse in the 9 years I have been with my husband, UNTIL I started trying to cover up little things about my involvement with my co-worker. This was the first time in our marriage I was lying in such a deceitful way-but consider myself an honest, loyal person aside from this. So-just b/c someone is unfaithful DOES NOT make them a bad person! ANYONE can get tied up in an affair given the right circumstance. But at some point the lies do have to stop if you want to redeem yourself and/or your marriage.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

I guess you can justfy it by saying you got 'caught up' or it doesn't make someone a bad person or under the 'right' circumstances...it depends on what 'bad' means to you, if you're the one sneaking around and cheating, you can justify it how ever makes you feel less 'bad', but to the person you're cheating on, well in their 'bad' of you, you are a sneaky lying cheat, not trying to be harsh, but in the case of the betrayed person, how else are they or anyone supposed to see it?:scratchhead: It doesn't change the fact of what you are or what you are doing, just the interpretation.


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

2Daughters said:


> I guess you can justfy it by saying you got 'caught up' or it doesn't make someone a bad person or under the 'right' circumstances...it depends on what 'bad' means to you, if you're the one sneaking around and cheating, you can justify it how ever makes you feel less 'bad', but to the person you're cheating on, well in their 'bad' of you, you are a sneaky lying cheat, not trying to be harsh, but in the case of the betrayed person, how else are they or anyone supposed to see it?:scratchhead: It doesn't change the fact of what you are or what you are doing, just the interpretation.


The cheater is not in his/her right mind when cheating, it's a kind of addiction. PLus, the cheater rarely gets into that situation by him or herself. I think that in most cases both spouses have lost track of one another's love - not necessarily by any one's fault - and then one or the other succumbs to the temptation to cheat. I'm less inclined to assign "bad" labels to initiating the cheating, but more on how he/she reacts to being confronted by it. If, when confronted, they take action to end it and make amends to their spouse - including rebuilding the relationship - I'd be inclined to be easily forgiving. If the spouse lies about the affair, tries to continue it in concealment or refuses to end it, that's more like the kind of "bad" behavior that feels like real betrayal.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Yes Rob, that is the way I would look at it also, what sucks is 'addicts' have a high rate of re-using again, I guess if they really love the person they betray on, then sure, it might work.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I guess you can justfy it by saying you got 'caught up' or it doesn't make someone a bad person or under the 'right' circumstances...


It is not a matter of 'justifying' the behavior - lying in itself is wrong, because it is deceitful. Theft in itself is wrong, because is it the transference of property without permission. In ALL cases, the action itself is wrong. Even the reasons you may make the choice to take part in such a behavior do not change the fact that the action itself is wrong. If your child is starving, and you are broke, and choose to steal a piece of bread - the THEFT is wrong. NOTHING can make that right.

None of the arguments offered are in any stretch of the imagination a desire to make the ACTION of lying (or cheating) wrong. What we ARE saying is entirely different.



> it depends on what 'bad' means to you, if you're the one sneaking around and cheating, you can justify it how ever makes you feel less 'bad', but to the person you're cheating on, well in their 'bad' of you, you are a sneaky lying cheat, not trying to be harsh, but in the case of the betrayed person, how else are they or anyone supposed to see it? It doesn't change the fact of what you are or what you are doing, just the interpretation.


Again, it isn't relevant what how each party feels. What we are trying to get at is that there are prior REASONS why the affair takes place. This is equivalent to the 'society' harshly punishing a starving person who steals a loaf of bread because it was a theft. Yes, it was. But the consequences for that particular theft should morally be determined by the consequences leading up to the theft.

And it is pretty much a guaranteed failure if you decide to insist that the reasons prior to the affair are irrelevant to the case, that what is relevant is that YOU got lied to, and that the focus of your life is to dwell on that fact. Your marriage will most likely fail - if not right now, then sometime in the future - when another affair happens.

And the sad thing is that when that next affair happens, you will justify your feelings of anger and resentment on the thought that this person was a 'serial cheater' rather than on the fact that you refused to do the work necessary in your marriage to make it affair free. Because as I wrote before, I have yet to find an affair that happened 'out of the blue.' There are problems in the relationship that seem to be fixed by an outside person. And unless those problems are located, identified and fixed, the marriage will always be on shaky ground.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

2Daughters said:


> Yes Rob, that is the way I would look at it also, what sucks is 'addicts' have a high rate of re-using again, I guess if they really love the person they betray on, then sure, it might work.


No. That is not the answer. The answer is for both partners to love each other. You are hoping that some sort of mystical, undefined emotion will cause the 'addict' to not cheat again. 'Love' as an emotion is smoke. Love is ACTION. Both partners bust spend time deliberately engaged in acting toward each other in ways that build up the relationship. That is why I argue it is NEVER enough to simply end the affair. A marriage must THEN be created. Work must be done to find out how to work together to create a new relationship in which whatever harm was being done in the past is not repeated.

The fact that people move from one affair to another is, in all my years of working in this area - the result of refusing to work on the marriage, of building a marriage that is affair-proof. And often the 'repeats' I've seen are the direct result of the Loyal Spouse (the one who did NOT cheat) making the conscious decision that they can, from the day their spouse returns to the marriage, seek ways to punish the returned spouse for pain caused. It results in dwelling on the pain, in a strict refusal to forgive, and a new set of Love Busters (Extinguishers) that includes Keeping Score of all the problems, and various forms of control. 

Unless BOTH partners are equally willing to work on the marriage , it cannot survive.



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Now playing: John Prine - Souvenirs (Reprise)
via FoxyTunes


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Unless BOTH partners are equally willing to work on the marriage , it cannot survive.


Agreed. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand therein lies the problem.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Anyone who is having an affair - or is in withdrawal from one, is not in a position to work on the marriage. Hence the idea that there are two parts to the recovery:

1) End the affair
2) Work on the marriage.

It is impossible to do one without the other and expect the marriage to improve.

Hence the idea of Plan A (Carrot & Stick) - or, the Love Dare. By creating a situation where love can flourish, you create the opportunity to make the offer to work on the marriage.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Anyone who is having an affair - or is in withdrawal from one, is not in a position to work on the marriage. Hence the idea that there are two parts to the recovery:
> 
> 1) End the affair
> 2) Work on the marriage.
> ...


I totally understand what you mean by point 1 and 2. But, how do we know for sure if the affair has ended, specifically if the spouse does not want/will not talk about it?

You know my story well enough to know what I mean.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

notreadytoquit said:


> I totally understand what you mean by point 1 and 2. But, how do we know for sure if the affair has ended, specifically if the spouse does not want/will not talk about it?
> 
> You know my story well enough to know what I mean.


If they refuse to talk about it, it's most likely not over.

Assume that he NEVER uses the term 'affair' but he does end all contact, gives absolute transparency, perhaps works through a period of withdrawal, and begins to work on the marriage. Would this not be obvious? Some people NEVER admit it was an affair. They might use euphemisms (an indiscretion, a mistake...) The proof is in the action, not the verbiage.

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Now playing: Haydn - Symphony No. 44 in E minor 'Trauer' - 2 - Menuetto e Trio - Allegretto canone in diapason
via FoxyTunes


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

He has not offered any transparency yet, but his behaviour right now is as if nothing is wrong in our marriage. An outsider would not even have a clue that an affair is/was going on here. It could be also that they are keeping low profile at the moment. The only thing I know from the OW husband is that she has been home a lot more lately but she has been texting a lot(he does not know to whom). Their divorce is almost finalized and he has given up on her.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

So before the marriage can be worked on, work on yourself right? Don't expect your WS to start talking about or taking action on rebuilding the marriage until they have finished their withdrawal and you have done away with Love Busters, right?


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

I was recently talking to a woman who had an affair a few years ago. She was telling me all about it. In fact, I think she was sizing me up to be her next partner. 

Basically she said that her husband, due to not taking care of himself, was on medication that killed his sex drive. Evidently she had a high sex drive. Her other affair lasted a few years and she didn't regret it or feel any remorse at all. He husband found out about it, she didn't say how, and was devastated but she justified it in her mind because he wasn't meeting her needs.

Now here she is a couple years after that thinking about having another one. She gave him an ultimatum to get his act together and start showing her some affection or she might cheat again. She said that this really rattled his cage, but she felt that is what she has to do to get what she wants. Pretty heartless, but that is what this one woman said. 

My wife has been acting very inaproprately at work and had a EA (and possibly more - I will never know). We have been going to a marriage counselor for several months and my wife is still very defensive and combative and making bad choices that show me a complete lack of respect. The marriage counselor keeps talking about good choices and affair proofing our marriage.  Here's a good example of why that needs to happen. I have been trying to affair proof our marriage ever since the s*** started with my wife back in December but she says we don't need to and resists my efforts. Now I am starting to drift away because she has been so selfish and treats me with a total lack of respect and allows her coworkers to do the same. I feel the need to find someone else that will make me happy for the rest of my life. I am vulnerable because we haven't affair proofed our marriage like we should have. Only the respect that I have for MYSELF kept me from being this woman's next sex partner.


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## flowergirl77 (Jun 8, 2010)

This is such a great thread! I will add that just because I have had no contact with the OM in 7 weeks, does not mean that it is over for me completely. I still think of him, and miss talking to him at times-but I am clear in my thinking that we can not get re-involved again in the way that we were-we can`t even be friends because that is what got us into trouble in the first place. We became each others support person, discussing our respective marriages, and how hard it is to be happy in marriage.Then the talks lead to us asking each other questions about this and that, talking about our feelings, revealing highly personal details of our lives to each other then *BAM* I was a goner. I thought of him all the time, and wanted to see him more and more. His attention made me feel so good, It was attention I had not received in my MG in years-and was with this man at work who made me laugh (my HB has a dry sense of humor) and I LOVE to laugh and like being around people who make me laugh! He complemented me freely, and was clearly smitten. But I know that is NOT reality, it was an escape and YES a drug...I agree it became an addiction to the high I would get being around him. I didn`t feel bad for what I was doing because I thought well he doesn`t care enough to work on our marriage so I can do what I want to make myself feel better, and at the same time could justify it because nothing physical happened.


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