# Need a Woman's Point of View- Is My Situation Fair?



## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

Ladies, first let me thank you for reading and possibly responding to this. This will be my first post on this forum and I am a married husband seeking marital advice. Here is my situation:
Married for 14 years, have 2 kids under the age of 8. I got married young when I was 24 and my wife was 21. I had just completed college and my wife was a sophomore in college. We decided mutually to move away to the beach and start our life. I got a job that paid the bills but nothing more and my wife worked in a government office making a good salary. My wife's parents were paying for her college but she and they decided that she would quit school and use the college money on our wedding ( dumb move I know.)
Fast forward three years and my wife tires of working as a secretary and wants to go back to school to get a degree in education. We agree that she can do this and I will pay for her degree entirely- which takes 3 years and I do so. I am so in love at this point that I also buy my wife a new sportscar as well as support us and pay for school as we go with my regular job. Needless to say that this is a major stretch on our finances but we manage to do this without generating debt by eating ramen noodles and doing nothing extracurricular for that entire time. My wife graduates and gets a job as a teacher with her degree. We live for 2 years on good incomes and save up for a home which we buy. Then my wife decides she wants to have a child and stay at home. I agree and this is what happens.
Fast forward another 7 years and I have been paying for everything for our now 2 kids while my wife stays at home with them except on the weekends when she works as a daycare worker making 10 bucks an hour for 12 hours a week. Needless to say we have zero money to do anything but our kids are our #1 priority and her staying home with them is our number one concern. When this situation was discussed originally it was agreed upon that she would stay home, do the home chores inside, and make sure meals were on the table. That did not happen. She occasionally does chores, makes just heat and serve meals, and focuses on having fun and doing active things with our children only. I am stuck doing chores and other things like grocery shopping, yard work (which I agreed to do), and cleaning the house because I cannot deal with living in filth (by filth I mean unvaccumed dirty floors, dusty furniture, dishes in the sink constantly, dirty bathrooms, and toys everywhere all the time. Anytime I discuss this with her all that I get is "my main concern is that the kids have fun, not if we have a clean house or learning to cook." This constantly pisses me off.
Fast forward to present day and my kids are not entering regular school and preschool so I think that my wife will return to teaching and help out financially so that we can hire a maid and live a regular life. We live in a nice house, drive new cars (leased but modest cars), and survive on my salary alone. She gets a job as a teacher in my youngest son's preschool working 20 hours a week and works as a daycare worker in a church on Sunday mornings for 4 hours a week. I think this is just temporary until my son enters kindergarten but I have recently been told that she does not want to return to work as a teacher full time because it is "too stressful and takes up too much time."
This really pisses me off for several reasons. On one hand she is not using her degree that I paid for at all, so I feel like I got screwed over for 3 years paying for that. On the other hand I feel that she is just concerned with herself and is screwing the other 3 of us out of a more comfortable life so that she can continue only working 20 hours a week at a job she loves. 
This is all building up inside of me to the point where I want to do something insane like have an affair so that I can escape this life that I live in. Any advice is appreciated with me or against me. I know that there are two sides of every story and I know I have not written anything negative about me. I just need some help because at this point I am looking for an escape in all of the wrong places although I have not done anything yet, I refuse to get divorced until my kids are out of the house and frankly that is the plan now.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

*Need Advice- Warning Long*

Guys, first let me thank you for reading and possibly responding to this. This will be my first post on this forum and I am a married husband seeking marital advice. Here is my situation:
Married for 14 years, have 2 kids under the age of 8. I got married young when I was 24 and my wife was 21. I had just completed college and my wife was a sophomore in college. We decided mutually to move away to the beach and start our life. I got a job that paid the bills but nothing more and my wife worked in a government office making a good salary. My wife's parents were paying for her college but she and they decided that she would quit school and use the college money on our wedding ( dumb move I know.)
Fast forward three years and my wife tires of working as a secretary and wants to go back to school to get a degree in education. We agree that she can do this and I will pay for her degree entirely- which takes 3 years and I do so. I am so in love at this point that I also buy my wife a new sportscar as well as support us and pay for school as we go with my regular job. Needless to say that this is a major stretch on our finances but we manage to do this without generating debt by eating ramen noodles and doing nothing extracurricular for that entire time. My wife graduates and gets a job as a teacher with her degree. We live for 2 years on good incomes and save up for a home which we buy. Then my wife decides she wants to have a child and stay at home. I agree and this is what happens.
Fast forward another 7 years and I have been paying for everything for our now 2 kids while my wife stays at home with them except on the weekends when she works as a daycare worker making 10 bucks an hour for 12 hours a week. Needless to say we have zero money to do anything but our kids are our #1 priority and her staying home with them is our number one concern. When this situation was discussed originally it was agreed upon that she would stay home, do the home chores inside, and make sure meals were on the table. That did not happen. She occasionally does chores, makes just heat and serve meals, and focuses on having fun and doing active things with our children only. I am stuck doing chores and other things like grocery shopping, yard work (which I agreed to do), and cleaning the house because I cannot deal with living in filth (by filth I mean unvaccumed dirty floors, dusty furniture, dishes in the sink constantly, dirty bathrooms, and toys everywhere all the time. Anytime I discuss this with her all that I get is "my main concern is that the kids have fun, not if we have a clean house or learning to cook." This constantly pisses me off.
Fast forward to present day and my kids are not entering regular school and preschool so I think that my wife will return to teaching and help out financially so that we can hire a maid and live a regular life. We live in a nice house, drive new cars (leased but modest cars), and survive on my salary alone. She gets a job as a teacher in my youngest son's preschool working 20 hours a week and works as a daycare worker in a church on Sunday mornings for 4 hours a week. I think this is just temporary until my son enters kindergarten but I have recently been told that she does not want to return to work as a teacher full time because it is "too stressful and takes up too much time."
This really pisses me off for several reasons. On one hand she is not using her degree that I paid for at all, so I feel like I got screwed over for 3 years paying for that. On the other hand I feel that she is just concerned with herself and is screwing the other 3 of us out of a more comfortable life so that she can continue only working 20 hours a week at a job she loves. 
This is all building up inside of me to the point where I want to do something insane like have an affair so that I can escape this life that I live in. Any advice is appreciated with me or against me. I know that there are two sides of every story and I know I have not written anything negative about me. I just need some help because at this point I am looking for an escape in all of the wrong places although I have not done anything yet, I refuse to get divorced until my kids are out of the house and frankly that is the plan now. Am I wrong for wanting to experience something secretly for my damn self for once or not? I am intelligent and am sure that I could keep it a secret...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

While I understand your frustration, how exactly do you think having an affair will help with what's going on in your marriage? And I say this not to pick a fight, but to get you to think deeper about your motivations and reasonings, as I am the on the cheated in my marriage. You having an affair will only accelerate the demise of your marriage, with the likelihood of blowing everything up and making an amicable split impossible. 

A better solution... Get your wife into marriage counselling, where you can express to her your thoughts and feelings about how things are. And you can get her input on her thoughts. You're just banking resentments and frustrations. I highly doubt you can contain another 10+ years of them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*

It's a good idea to stick to one post per subject. Otherwise the conversations get all mucked up. It's also the forum rules... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks PBear. One note on the affair, I am just looking for an escape I guess. Some sort of pleasure for myself- maybe just a moment to be selfish for once in this marriage. I have read that sometimes affairs are a good thing and if they can get me out of this current frame of mind then it might be worth a try. I know most if all are not going to agree with me on this. 
Getting my wife in to see a therapist will be impossible, she is too bullheaded for that. Tried before.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that you have reasonable concerns. Your wife is over board with making sure the kids have fun. They need to learn that there are responsibilities in life too.

You need to get her into MC (marriage counseling) to re-negotiate your marriage and family life. Your marriage will not last much longer if you don't.

There are two very good books that I think will help both of you: "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters"

I would make both of you reading those books and doing the work they say to do part the work that you require that both of you do for this marriage to continue.

Is there someone who have in mind when you think about cheating? I'm just curious as to how far those thoughts have progressed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She really is being a good mother. I think you will see that eventually. Her investment in the kids is going to pay off for both of you.

I actually wish I were more like that. Sounds fun.

Be patient, OP. Things will get better as they get older. 

And keep sharing your feelings! Keep being honest with yourself and with her. Tell her you feel you are vulnerable to cheating, and ask for her help. Explain how a divorce would impact her financially.

How about IC for yourself?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*



sparkerchondro said:


> Am I wrong for wanting to experience something secretly for my damn self for once or not? I am intelligent and am sure that I could keep it a secret...


I find it fascinating that you added these two sentences when you posted in the Men's Clubhouse but left them off when posting in the Ladies' Lounge. 

Oh, and yes, you are wrong to be focusing on having an affair instead of on fixing, or honorably ending, your marriage. So, who is the lovely lady you have in mind for this little bit of "something secret" for yourself?


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

This has been going on for a while and I am sad to say that I do have someone in mind that I met online at a dating website. I realize that this will not help my marriage and did not come on here looking for permission to cheat, I just wanted to hear differing opinions on what to do. Maybe they will speak to me and I will make a change. In my mind, I am tired of footing the bills and living a life of have not just so that she can get whatever she wants all the time.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

sparkerchondro said:


> Thanks PBear. One note on the affair, I am just looking for an escape I guess. Some sort of pleasure for myself- maybe just a moment to be selfish for once in this marriage. *I have read that sometimes affairs are a good thing and if they can get me out of this current frame of mind then it might be worth a try. * I know most if all are not going to agree with me on this.
> Getting my wife in to see a therapist will be impossible, she is too bullheaded for that. Tried before.


*Stop* reading whatever you were reading when you came across that little nugget of abject insanity. Cheating will not help your marriage. Your marriage may survive you cheating, but cheating will not save it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

sparkerchondro said:


> This has been going on for a while and I am sad to say that I do have someone in mind that I met online at a dating website. I realize that this will not help my marriage and did not come on here looking for permission to cheat, I just wanted to hear differing opinions on what to do. Maybe they will speak to me and I will make a change. In my mind, I am tired of footing the bills and living a life of have not just so that she can get whatever she wants all the time.


What to do? I would suggest you stop communicating with your girlfriend. Then you should stop going to dating websites. After that, you need to tell your wife that the marriage is in danger of ending if some things do not change, and make going to marriage counseling a requirement. If she won't go to MC, or if nothing improves after several months, then you need to divorce.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Solve the problems in your marriage. Don't just try to escape. If you're not willing to work on the problems with her (including having hard and painful conversations), then end the marriage. 

If you think you can take the "easy" way out for the next 10 years and just live a double life outside your marriage, you're deluding yourself. Things WILL blow up. Just a question of when and how bad.
C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*

Am I wrong for knowing that there are major differences between male and female perceptions of things. When I posted in the guy's forum, I am wanting an all out, no holds barred answer. I want the same from the women's forum but I did not want them to be so focused on me cheating- I am looking for something different there>
The woman I have in mind is not someone I know, it is just a stranger who I have been talking to online for a month or so. I have looked her up on facebook and know she is not a he...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sparkerchondro said:


> *This has been going on for a while and I am sad to say that I do have someone in mind that I met online at a dating website.* I realize that this will not help my marriage and did not come on here looking for permission to cheat, I just wanted to hear differing opinions on what to do. Maybe they will speak to me and I will make a change. *In my mind, I am tired of footing the bills and living a life of have not just so that she can get whatever she wants all the time.*


Please show this to your wife. Give her a chance to see how serious all this is.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*

And I am being truthful in the fact that I have not done anything yet with this woman except casually talk to her. I did find her on a married but looking forum though.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Get off the dating sites. Now. That can only end badly for you, you're going to go from a husband with legitimate grievances to a cheating pos and that's how everyone will see you. Depending on your state it could be held against you if your wife divorces you.

Your problem is that your wife has made unilateral decisions in your marriage that affect both of you. You must tell her now that you can go to MC to discuss or you will file for divorce, then she'll have to get a job. Think about whether you want the marriage though because it seems you don't really have a partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*

I've got news for you. Most of use read all of the forums. There's a "New Post" link at the top of the screen. It lists every new post across all the forums. A lot of us use that and do not go to individual forums.

It is disingenuous for you to basically lie in the woman's forum. When I read your thread in the woman's forum my intuition talk me that your screed was really about putting your wife down to justify an affair. That's why I asked if you had some women I mind.

You are thinking like a cad. There is NO justification for having an affair. You say that you have no plan to leave your wife until your children are grown. Do you really think that doing this while having an affair behind her back makes you a good man? Hardly.

If you do not want to respect your wife, the set her free so that she can find someone who will actually love and respect her.

Also, you are not the only one who gets to decide if you live in the same house with your children until they are grown. Your wife could decide to divorce you at any point. If you cheat you up the chance of her doing this by many times. She is most likely to find out about your cheating.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Solve the problems in your marriage. The grass is never greener on the other side. You don't want to suffer in silence for a couple of decades. You have a number of issues to address.

If she really thinks that "having fun" is what her parenting responsibility is, then she is off her nut. This is the perfect age for kids to start learning to contribute to the family chores. Well a little late actually. She knows this. She works in a preschool!

Sit her down and have a real conversation which goes something like she does not have the right to a life of leisure while you are kicking ass. Tell her that you are going to MC and ask her to go with you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*

Yes, please be honest with her. I think you each have very different values. Women do not have to stay anymore with men who do not treat them in the way they would like.

Put the shoe on the other foot, OP. What would you think if she were doing this to you?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think by having fun, he means she does arts and crafts with them, takes them to the park, stuff like that. But I agree that learning to tidy up together is important, too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The end of his OP in the men’s forum. Note the last sentence that he left out of this thread in the woman’s forum.


sparkerchondro said:


> This is all building up inside of me to the point where I want to do something insane like have an affair so that I can escape this life that I live in. Any advice is appreciated with me or against me. I know that there are two sides of every story and I know I have not written anything negative about me. I just need some help because at this point I am looking for an escape in all of the wrong places although I have not done anything yet, I refuse to get divorced until my kids are out of the house and frankly that is the plan now. *Am I wrong for wanting to experience something secretly for my damn self for once or not? I am intelligent and am sure that I could keep it a secret...*


Here is his response as to why he added those sentences in the men’s forum.



sparkerchondro said:


> Am I wrong for knowing that there are major differences between male and female perceptions of things. When I posted in the guy's forum, I am wanting an all out, no holds barred answer. I want the same from the women's forum but I did not want them to be so focused on me cheating- I am looking for something different there>
> 
> The woman I have in mind is not someone I know, it is just a stranger who I have been talking to online for a month or so. I have looked her up on facebook and know she is not a he...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/196970-need-advice-warning-long.html#post9011434

Just wanted to let folks know the rest of the story over here in the Lady's forum.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you are pretty sure to get a no holds barred answer on any subforum in TAM, OP.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*



sparkerchondro said:


> Am I wrong for knowing that there are major differences between male and female perceptions of things. When I posted in the guy's forum, I am wanting an all out, no holds barred answer. I want the same from the women's forum but I did not want them to be so focused on me cheating- I am looking for something different there>
> The woman I have in mind is not someone I know, it is just a stranger who I have been talking to online for a month or so. I have looked her up on facebook and know she is not a he...


What I cannot figure out is how cheating is going to solve any of the problems you have. You will still be doing all the cleaning, with income lower than you would like. Where are you going to get more time and money for your AP?

(Incidentally your kids would still be raised to be entitled little princes and princesses too.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The fact that you are already on dating sites means that you are already cheating on her and being very disrespectful.

Also think about the fact that you will be blowing up the family of the women you want to have an affair with. 

YOu will be harming your children and hers.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Duplicate threads are not allowed on the forum. The two threads have been combined under "General" Thanks.


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*



sparkerchondro said:


> And I am being truthful in the fact that I have not done anything yet with this woman except casually talk to her. I did find her on a married but looking forum though.


Wherever you found that affairs were good for marriages...burn it, block it, forget about it, and never ever ever go to it again.

Affairs DESTROY marriages. Please get it out of your mind that they're good.

Also, stop talking to that woman. You found her on a married but looking forum so obviously she's looking for extramarital relations and you're entertaining the thought since you were on those forums as well.

Get off of those forums, stop talking to this woman IMMEDIATELY, and get into marriage counseling with your wife if you want to save your marriage.

If your wife isn't receptive to marriage counseling or you find that after seriously going to marriage counseling without any other people involved in your marriage (meaning: PERMANENTLY CUT OFF THE WOMAN YOU'RE TALKING TO) that things still aren't working, then bring up divorce as an ultimatum to your wife.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> She really is being a good mother. [\QUOTE]
> 
> How is she being a good mother?
> 
> Op, since you don't want a divorce, you should get your wife into MC and frankly you should learn to stand up for yourself/take responsibility for your actions instead of running


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Yes, your wife is selifsh.
But having an affair which you are already doing is absolutely the worst possible thing you can do. You are way more wrong than she is and this will end badly for you.

If you can agree to stop the idea of having an affair, people on this board can probably help you.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

I appreciate the responses. I see the general consensus is to just confront her with this stuff and see if we can work it out. The problem here is that I am tired of being the bread winner in this relationship with nothing for myself. I would do anything for my kids but at this point, yes, I really am unconcerned for my wife because of the way she treats me. I am not some sort of a coward who never raises issues, but it seems time and time again she just wants to back out of her end of the bargain and do what makes her happy. I did forget to mention that my wife is a very old fashioned woman who likes being a "kept woman" and wants me to take care of everything serious in our marriage. I treat her as an equal but to her I guess that means she gets treated like a princess while I get the crap end of the stick.
As far as Ellegirl, I can appreciate that you do not agree with me but I am looking for opinions on here- not for personal attacks. If you have nothing to contribute except for attacks on me, just don't comment on my threads anymore.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

And I have don't nothing so far except for a few communications with a woman from a website- this is not cheating in my book. I have not met up, and have talked about vanilla subjects so far- she is not my girlfriend. Just to clarify.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

I'm curious as to what status you used on the dating site.

I'm truly hoping you're not stringing some other woman along who thinks you're in the process of divorce or single.

As for your wife, I agree that what she's doing is a complete deal breaker for the marriage. I would never agree to support any grown up adult. If you've told her that you want her to work and she's refused to get off her butt and do it...you have every right to be upset with her. But in part, you've created the monster by indulging her spending habits and not making her be responsible for them.

In addition, if you divorce her without her going back to work, you're on the hook for alimony. So I'd divorce her sooner rather than later to reduce the duration of you being a slave to her continued laziness.

Having an affair is really, really stupid and inconsiderate. Not only to the mother of your children...but to whomever you're leading on.

If you're going to divorce this woman because she's being lazy and not doing her fair share...that's fine...but do it the right way.

Don't be worse than she is....have some integrity.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

sparkerchondro said:


> And I have don't nothing so far except for a few communications with a woman from a website- this is not cheating in my book. I have not met up, and have talked about vanilla subjects so far- she is not my girlfriend. Just to clarify.


My wife used the same logic on me when I discovered her relationship with another man she met on the internet. They never met in person either but the negative impact on our marriage was immense. Don't kid yourself, you are on a very slipper slope. Research Emotional Affairs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sparkerchondro said:


> I appreciate the responses. I see the general consensus is to just confront her with this stuff and see if we can work it out. The problem here is that I am tired of being the bread winner in this relationship with nothing for myself.


That second sentence sounds like a “but”. That’s why you need to the talk with her because you feel like you are just a paycheck and you get nothing back.



sparkerchondro said:


> I would do anything for my kids but at this point, yes, I really am unconcerned for my wife because of the way she treats me. I am not some sort of a coward who never raises issues, but it seems time and time again she just wants to back out of her end of the bargain and do what makes her happy. I did forget to mention that my wife is a very old fashioned woman who likes being a "kept woman" and wants me to take care of everything serious in our marriage. I treat her as an equal but to her I guess that means she gets treated like a princess while I get the crap end of the stick.


Bring all of this up in your talk with her. 


sparkerchondro said:


> As far as Ellegirl, I can appreciate that you do not agree with me but I am looking for opinions on here- not for personal attacks. If you have nothing to contribute except for attacks on me, just don't comment on my threads anymore.


I have not said anything any harsher than anyone else nor have I personally attacked you.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I hate to say this, but this is a public forum and you will get many opinions. Just because you don't like them does not make them invalid.

I agree that your wife should do more around the house. Maybe contribute equally to hire a housekeeper. 

You say you and kids go without for her. Does she buy diamond jewelry or mink coats? What do your kids want? An enthusiastic SAHM who does "fun" things with them, or a stressed working mom who puts them in daycare?

Could your wife become daycare director, work a position in Head Start preschool that requires her degree? Or should she be a professor who meets your income qualifications for a wife? 

Just saying that daycare workers do it because they LOVE the job, not for the money. We pay more for people to look after our PETS than our KIDS.

What are you missing out on? Newer cars, bigger man toys, new furniture? Your kids won't remember those things. They will remember how much "fun" they had with their mom while their dad was out trolling for other women. 

What does her income go to? Maybe she's saving to hire a divorce lawyer.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

*Re: Need Advice- Warning Long*



sparkerchondro said:


> Am I wrong for knowing that there are major differences between male and female perceptions of things. When I posted in the guy's forum, I am wanting an all out, no holds barred answer. I want the same from the women's forum but I did not want them to be so focused on me cheating- I am looking for something different there>
> The woman I have in mind is not someone I know, it is just a stranger who I have been talking to online for a month or so. I have looked her up on facebook and know she is not a he...


I'm a married woman who cheated and although my husband decided to keep me, I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

My husband stays home and I work and pay on the bills, its not the best situation but its not a reason to cheat.

You married this woman, had children with her and now you have a problem after agreeing to her staying home? 

I too justified my cheating by making my husband out to be horrible, selfish and distant and although he was many of those things, It never justifies cheating and that is what you are trying to do.

My cheating was with a stranger as well, do you think that changes the pain she will be feeling once she find out? 

BTW she will find out, you are already having an EA .

I have a hard time imagining that her working full time will even cover childcare for your children, after school care for my two kids 12 years ago was 1600 a month.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

spinsterdurga said:


> How is she being a good mother?


From what he has written, it sounds like she really spends time with the kids. It sounds like an investment.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sparkerchondro said:


> I did forget to mention that my wife is a very old fashioned woman who likes being a "kept woman" and wants me to take care of everything serious in our marriage. I treat her as an equal but to her I guess that means she gets treated like a princess while I get the crap end of the stick.


It sounds like the boundaries were not clear from the beginning of the relationship. Time to renegotiate . . .


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> From what he has written, it sounds like she really spends time with the kids. It sounds like an investment.



An investment? She is not doing chores/cooking which she agreed to do, and she is making decisions without thinking about her husband and kids. Just because he is thinking about cheating doesn't justify his wife's actions/laziness. In my book, this is not an investment


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

spinsterdurga said:


> An investment? She is not doing chores/cooking which she agreed to do, and she is making decisions without thinking about her husband and kids. Just because he is thinking about cheating doesn't justify his wife's actions/laziness. In my book, this is not an investment


I thought he said she was spending a lot of time with the kids, doing things with them. That is what all the SAHM literature says, to invest your time in your kids, because the housework will always be there. She is probably just following this advice.

The husband basically wants more money, right? To do fun things? 

Obviously, it is all up to them. They need to work out their priorities . . . _together._


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

OP, I agree cheating isn't the answer. Stop talking to the other woman. 

If the kids are in school, she needs to work. She wanted the degree - it is silly not to use it when you need the money. You need to consider an ultimatum of her working FT or else divorce might be an option. Otherwise, what incentive does she have to change. She seems to just like the cushy life and too bad for you. You need to show you are serious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

jld said:


> I thought he said she was spending a lot of time with the kids, doing things with them. That is what all the SAHM literature says, to invest your time in your kids, because the housework will always be there. She is probably just following this advice.
> 
> The husband basically wants more money, right? To do fun things?
> 
> Obviously, it is all up to them. They need to work out their priorities . . . _together._


I believe he said they need more money for the bills, or that's what I understood. She wanted a degree, and he worked to support her in getting that. 

Not everyone can live on one salary. It sounds like they cannot, and it is not fair for him to have to do it on his own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> I thought he said she was spending a lot of time with the kids, doing things with them. That is what all the SAHM literature says, to invest your time in your kids, because the housework will always be there. She is probably just following this advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe you should re-read the op. They need the additional income. Because the housework will always be there they have to live in a filthy house?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I would hate to witness the candid conversation when you bring up that you want HER to vacuum more and get a full time job.

Are you going to add in that your contribution to improving the relationship will be stop preparing to cheat on her?


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## StarTrekFan (Aug 15, 2012)

Others have mentioned about the inappropriateness of continuing relationship with the other woman you met online. I have a couple of other suggestions.

Others have also suggested counselling, however you cannot make your wife go there, if she does not want to. Perhaps in her world view everything is smooth and perfect, even if you think otherwise.

I agree that you need o do something that is "fun" for you. My suggestion is try to do something couple of times a week that will take your mind of the rut of daily routine.

You sound fairly young, can you join join some kind of local group to play sports like football, basketball or softball. Perhaps join a gym and they may have a some kind of group activity that you could enjoy couple of times a week. 

If you are of the religious persuasion you could volunteer at your church. If not try the site volunteermatch.com and type in your zip code and see what's available near you that you could help out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

spinsterdurga said:


> Maybe you should re-read the op. They need the additional income. Because the housework will always be there they have to live in a filthy house?


I reread it, but I did not see anything about debt. He said they live in a nice house and drive new but leased vehicles. She works 24 hours a week. I am guessing he wants her to get a job in a public school where the pay is better. Will she be able to find that? The schools around here have cut positions. Don't know about their area.

I think to her she is investing in the kids, which will pay off later for the parents. The SAHM literature does tend to say stuff like this, so she is not coming out of nowhere on that.

He needs to talk to her and renegotiate the terms. He wants the housework done. That has to be figured out. 

Basically a lot of communication needs to happen.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> I reread it, but I did not see anything about debt. He said they live in a nice house and drive new but leased vehicles. She works 24 hours a week. I am guessing he wants her to get a job in a public school where the pay is better. Will she be able to find that? The schools around here have cut positions. Don't know about their area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She might be investing in the kids or she might be lazy. Me and you don't know that there's not a lot of info to come to that conclusion. He needs to talk to her and get on the same page


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Not going housework...sounds lazy.

I'm amazed that some of us worked FT jobs and raised kids. According to some here, that's unreasonable. She wanted the degree; she needs to use it. The OP has a right to ask his wife to work; millions of moms work in this country. Millions of working moms make good money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

tennisstar said:


> Not going housework...sounds lazy.
> 
> I'm amazed that some of us worked FT jobs and raised kids. According to some here, that's unreasonable. She wanted the degree; she needs to use it. The OP has a right to ask his wife to work; millions of moms work in this country. Millions of working moms make good money.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sounds like it is heading that way. And if they divorce, for sure she will be seeking work.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Hmmmm.

Yep, your cheating. No if's and's or but's.

As Elegirl so eloquently pointed out. She can divorce you at any time and for any reason she chooses. It would be really nice if states would put faults back on the books *in addition to the no-fault status.* If you live in an alimony state, not only can she nail you for child support for each kid, she can also nail you for alimony. 

At this point you dump your internet fling and grow a pair and have an adult conversation with her. Renegotiate and set boundaries.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You really have to look at all the ways that you enable your wife's selfisness and bad wifing and stop doing that. That's really all you can do.

If she states her main concern is that the kids have fun, you tell her that her priorities in life are very screwed up and that your main concern is raising the children in an intact family. Never tolerate her dumb views of marriage, wifing and mothering.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks for all the responses. For those of you who are unclear, yes my wife wanted that degree and yes I expect her to use it, is that being too unfair? Also, is it wrong for me to expect a clean house and good meals on the table when I am essentially paying for my wife to stay home all day with my kids, even when my oldest is in school already and my youngest is in preschool. I had a problem with this in the past when the housework was never done, which was part of our agreement. I have a problem with this arrangement now that my kids are essentially in school and she has the means to get a good job to help us out and she chooses to be a preschool teacher which does not require a degree and pays nothing. I honestly do not care if she loves that job, I freaking hate my job and do it every day. I could just as easily get a WAY less stressful job that paid way less and do the same thing. I am also not wanting more "mantoys" or extravagant things in life. I just want to be able to eat out on occasion, take a vacation on occasion, and buy some things for my kids on occasion. We are all living a VERY financially conservative lifestyle right now and I for one am sick of it.
I also hear you on the affair thing, and I will have no problem at all dropping that. I also want to mention htat I DO talk to my wife about this and I come off as the A*****e every time. I have tried and tried to make her see on this but she refuses, she thinks that just because she has a menial job that is good enough. She could easily be a k-3 teacher and my kids would not have to go to daycare at all. I also have the connections where she could be hired on with the county I work for.
I guess the real point is that I am sick of having to dictate to my wife what has to be done over and over and feeling like a controlling jerk. This is just common sense to me, get a good job and lets live a comfortable life. We have the means to do so so why am I the "badguy" for asking for this???


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Why doesn't your wife want to get a teaching job at the elementary level?

Does she complain about not having extra money, or is she content?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Is it possible you're seeing this through very thick affair goggles,OP? I wonder if the story your wife could tell would be very different.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I suspect the more pressing issue for you is her working full time at a teacher's salary than cooking & cleaning. I don't think if she served you 4-course meals & the house was spotless all of the time, you would be happy.

You want the additional income so focus on that. Your wife is NOT lazy. She works outside of the home 24 hours per week & takes good care of 2 school-age children. Your resentment is about money, so own it.

You can't force her to get another job. Book a marriage counseling appointment & invite her to come along. If she refuses, go alone (I did). If you don't want a divorce, book that appointment asap because the way you are thinking (affairs, resentment) you marriage is headed for one.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Sparker, There is nothing wrong with being tired of being the sole provider, I'm right there with you its a lot of pressure, not to mention if you hate your job (which I do) you have to grin and bare it.

I too look like the A-hole when I say please help me and I had to learn to let it go. I would suggest you tell your wife its your turn to stay home and enjoy watching your children grow up. 

Tell her you will work part time to help out, let her do it for awhile. If she disagrees you ask her calmly why? You feel she has had some wonderful years with the children and you too would like to experience that. 

If she cant understand that then you will have to tell her your unhappy and make the hard decision to tell her that you wont be able to continue down this path, be prepared to tell her the consequences to the continued unhappiness. (not in a threatening way)

Communicate and keep your cool, listen to her and be careful not to sound accusatory, I wish I had learned the language of communication.

Cheating is not the answer.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't think you are a jerk nor should you see yourself as one. You and your wife made an agreement when the family invested the considerable sacrifice for her to go to school. 

She is denying her children the fruits of that sacrifice. I think it's selfish and very unfair to her children not to work now that she has time. I also think it is unfair that she does not do her fair share of the chores. 

Stop feeling that you are wrong. You can't force her to work but you may help her want to work. 

I think you should not keep secrets. Confess about the dating site and OW. It's only fair that she know how serious things are and allow her the chance to fix things, if she wants. Be prepared for the fallout. 

If she is stubborn then she may take things to the brink of D to see who blinks first. Be prepared. You can give her a timeline to get started in her career and honor her commitment. 

Also get MC if you decide to work on staying married. Work on communication and reasonable expectations and responsibilities. 

Find out about your legal position if you D. She should know that if you D, she will have to work full time in a job comparable to her education level and earning potential. She will not be able to collect alimony because she can work.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

as others have pointed out your solution (an affair) does not track well with your problem (inadequate family support from your wife). is there something else going on? how is your sex life? are you guys affectionate? are you attracted to her; she to you?


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

Well to update everyone, I dropped the emotional affair. I also have continued to argue with my wife over working and her new outlook is that she "is" working a full time job as a teacher because teacher's hours vary, and her job just happens to offer only 24 hours. 
To answer your questions Nuclear, our sexlife has been great in the past but now is in decline. I am very outgoing and want to try new things and she is becoming very conservative I think because she has gained about 30 lbs over the last couple of years. BTW, she blames "me" for that because I will not pay for a gym membership for her.
I have gotten myself in the mindset that I will stay as a financial "cuckold" in this situation until my youngest goes to college and then I will just up and leave and do what I have always wanted to do- move to Brazil. Starting over at 55 will not be that bad in my eyes and I really have to pay for my poor decisions now because the number one thing is the kids. My relationship with them is great and we really tend to parent totally separate, I do my own things with them as does she. Not much is done together.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Good for you for dropping the affair, there's no way that was going to end well for you.
You do have legitimate grievances though, but in a way I see her point. 24 hours a week plus two young kids is basically full time, and maybe she'll use the education degree when they get older. Still, I get that you want her to use it now to take financial pressure off of you.

If she does get a teaching job how will child care and chores be split? I know you're doing a lot now but you're also really po'd about it. Do you think they could be equitably split if she works at a job full time, without you being upset? In an ideal world, what would each of you be responsible for?

I'm not surprised your sex life would be suffering from this, tension and resentment are not good for passion. Fwiw, my parents had the same issue, though my dad didn't pay for any education as my mom wasn't interested. He wanted her to work, and she thought it was a man's job to work. She did cook and clean though, so she wasn't lazy, he just didn't want to shoulder the financial burden. Knowing him though I don't think he would've pitched in for anything else though, so all home chores would've still been on her. None of the kids got this attitude though; I make more than my husband. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Your wife is working 24 hours a week PLUS being a good mother to two young children. I think your wife has a lot on her plate.

You are trying to justify an affair so you are looking at your wife through poopie lenses instead of appreciating her. I imagine she feels the resentment and lack of appreciation.

I think you should come clean with her. Tell her you've put yourself out there on sites for married people looking to hook up. IMO it is massively unfair for her to be tarred and feathered as the one who needs to shape up or ship out of this marriage.

Your behavior shows a serious character defect. She needs to know about it so she can decide if its a dealkiller for her.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I think you probably have some legitimate gripes, OP, but an affair is never the answer. In fact, I've found over the years that when I'm interested in someone outside the marriage, it magnifies all the flaws in the marriage and makes them seem worse than they are, because your unconscious mind is looking for a justification to do the feel-good thing. It's good that you completely cut off contact with the other woman -- you'll never sort this out while in the fog of that relationship.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

My mother is an educated and talented person who never pulled much financial weight but also didn't really want to be a housewife. She cooked some, cleaned almost none (their house is filthy to this day and my dad is the only one who picks up around the house) and didn't completely ignore us but seemed a little detached. She liked talking to us like we were her friends, not as our mom.

My father is still working his ass off at 65 and she's still running her "business" (for over 20 years now) that seems more like a fun social project for her than a real business since it barely makes any money. I can see how this kind of thing could make a man resentful -- in fact I don't understand how my dad isn't more resentful.

Your wife at least brings in some income and is involved with the kids. You can work with what you have and try to make the best of it, or you can divorce. An affair isn't going to fix anything.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

And by the way, I would pay for the gym membership unless you really, really can't afford it. I would be a little less stingy with your wife, it sounds almost like you're withholding spending as an expression of your anger, and that's not going to help anything.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

In my mind there would be ABSOLUTELY nothing to gain by telling my wife I was talking with someone else for a couple of weeks. I did not ever meet up with this woman and only conversed a short time via email. Some of you are looking at me like I had a full blown affair, give me a break. I also want to say that I am VERY active with raising the kids. I coach their sports teams, play with them when I get home every day. and basically have them the entire weekend. In effect, I am doing the same as my wife except I am working WAY more than her, AND I do more than my fair share of housework. I probably did not explain this in detail, but I really do not understand the comments stating that I have done something god awful, I have not.


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## sparkerchondro (Jun 2, 2014)

And I have paid for the gym membership in the past but it was never used. I have even bought gym equipment and have it at the house right now- collecting dust.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

sparkerchondro said:


> In my mind there would be ABSOLUTELY nothing to gain by telling my wife I was talking with someone else for a couple of weeks. I did not ever meet up with this woman and only conversed a short time via email. Some of you are looking at me like I had a full blown affair, give me a break. I also want to say that I am VERY active with raising the kids. I coach their sports teams, play with them when I get home every day. and basically have them the entire weekend. In effect, I am doing the same as my wife except I am working WAY more than her, AND I do more than my fair share of housework. I probably did not explain this in detail, but I really do not understand the comments stating that I have done something god awful, I have not.


You didn't do anything "awful" but you were asking our permission to do something awful.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Also no one accused you of not being involved with your kids, so no need to get defensive.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Life is hardly ever fair.

But you have choices.

You can choose to talk to her about all of this.

You can choose to cheat.

But the paths those take are on you. Consequences are not removed from choice.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

If I did this to my husband, I can tell you exactly what he would do. He would not tolerate it. You resent your wife for everything, but yet you do nothing about it. You just continue this way and expect if you occasionally complain something will magically one day change. It doesn't work that way. This sounds old fashioned, but be a man and put your foot down. I respect my husband because if he is completely against something, he says it upfront and to my face. Please be honest with your wife that her behavior is not okay and you will not tolerate it. Either she starts keeping up with her end of the work in the house, or you are out. Never stay in a marriage for kids. My parents tried that, and it was never fun for me or my brother!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

What exactly is she doing that is so awful? Working 24 hours a week, and raising kids the rest of the time? What an awful woman!

Yes she should be doing the majority of the housework...cooking healthy meals at the very least. You both should be. I get the housework issue because my husband and I have the same - I'm not nearly as fussy as he.

If you could afford to pay for a gym membership, why not put that towards a cleaner once a week or fortnight? Take some of the load off both of you - and yes, your wife DOES have a lot on her plate.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Seems to me the biggest gripe is she doesn't do enough housework and she doesn't earn enough money.

End result being that you don't give a damn about her anymore and want to go have fun playing with other women. Even went so far as to go onto a dating site was it?

I saw you 'dropped' the woman you were grooming for an affair and think that makes it all good now. Back to being the knight in shining armour. Unfortunately your armour fell off and rusted a fair ways back.

I know you think you're the good guy in all this but to be the sort of person who has already done that stuff, thought that stuff, planned that stuff, well, you don't come across as a good guy at all.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

You sound really whiny. And now you've basically checked out of the whole marriage and are planning to divorce when your kids are grown up and go and live in Brazil. 

Do you even love your wife? Because it doesn't sound like you do.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Sounds like you have a "check the box" mentality when it comes to relationship. 

I paid for my wife's degree...check
I support my family (and will until legally necessary)....check
I play with my kids...check
I take care of my kids on the weekend, when my wife works...check

When did supporting, caring and loving one's wife and family become a checklist of 'to do's' to be checked off a list?


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## newwife07 (Jan 11, 2011)

Women like to be taken care of financially (I would love to be and think it would make DH more attractive to me). But in those situations, I don't think the wife should spend as much as it sounds like your wife is--she should be as frugal as possible to ease the burden on the husband. Can she lower her standard of living to a point that would make you happy? Think of an exact dollar amount per month.

The other problem is that she's not holding up her end of the deal. You said you feel like you live in filth, and she agreed to do the chores. That is her problem and she needs to fix it if she wants the 20-hour schedule. I once worked 24 hours a week but I still contributed exactly half of all shared expenses (and did all chores, which I resent because of my equal financial contributions). But I'd never ask my DH for an uneven financial arrangement without making sure he felt comfortable with what I was doing for the home. He would resent me.

Also, don't give her a hard time for not using her degree. That's not what you're really upset about, deep down, anyway, and it will just make her defensive. I'm sure she is hard enough on herself about it.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> What exactly is she doing that is so awful? Working 24 hours a week, and raising kids the rest of the time? What an awful woman!


I don't get this mentality.

The guy has asked her to work and she is unilaterally making the decision not to. That's what's wrong.

Its perfectly reasonable for him to ask her to get off her butt and help with the financial burden. Maybe he wants to spend more time with the kids too. Kids need both parents...not just one.

Not to mention, she's not even upholding her end of the household work. There's no way that a grown woman can't clean the house and take care of kids. Women do it every single day. This OP said that he helped his wife pay for getting a degree and he wants her to use it. That's perfectly reasonable.

Personally, I would NEVER sign up to ever financially take care of another grown person. Nor would I ever want or expect someone to financially take care of me. Financial independence isn't something I'd ever be willing to give up.

I know sometimes, its more economically feasible in the temporary for someone to stay home to avoid daycare fees, travel fees, etc. But that has to be negotiated and agreed upon with the two people in a relationship. If he doesn't agree, her making a unilateral decision not to get off her butt is a deal breaker in my opinion.

I'd try to explain to her how serious I felt about it...and if she doesn't do anything, I'd divorce her. I would be very careful about spending any extra time in the marriage due to length of alimony. 

Having an affair is not the way to handle this but its not just the OPs fault. She's betraying their agreement and betraying his trust. Its no wonder he's considering doing the exact same thing to her using a different method.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> Women like to be taken care of financially


Not this woman. I take a lot of pride in being able to take care of myself financially and I teach my children the value of being self-sufficient.

I never want my girls to have to choose or stay in a bad relationship because they don't have the means to make choices.



> I know you think you're the good guy in all this but to be the sort of person who has already done that stuff, thought that stuff, planned that stuff, well, you don't come across as a good guy at all.


So one person in a relationship gets to make the unilateral decision to not work and he's just supposed to accept that? No negotiation? On top of that, she doesn't even bother to keep the house clean while she's home all day and he's supposed to tolerate that too?

Are you kidding me?

Two partners, not one, have to agree upon the terms of someone staying at home. She's betraying her husband's trust and is goodwill in letting her not help with the financial burden and all she's doing is making excuses for not pulling her weight.

I absolutely agree that this guy shouldn't have an affair. He'd be sinking to her level of betrayal. But he SHOULD absolutely explain to her that her behavior is a deal breaker.

I cannot understand why anyone should tolerate having to financially support someone who isn't doing the bare minimum. Why is it suddenly ok for a woman to be held to a substandard level of performance because she's female and a mother? Both partners have a responsibility to perform the duties that they agreed upon.

And by the way, its not just the woman who need to spend time with the kids. Kids need both parents. If one is spending all his time working/cleaning because the other won't pull their weight...you aren't doing these kids any favors.

OP...your frustration is perfectly appropriate but the way you're considering handling it isn't. If you know this woman isn't going to meet you halfway in your relationship and isn't upholding her end of the deal...have the dignity to try to work through it with her...and if that doesn't work, divorce her.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You're asking if this situation is fair. You've got a lot of differing opinions so far. Some say yes, others no.

The end result here is to obtain some sort of happiness. Your view on obtaining your happiness is to convince your wife to go back into teaching full time. Yep, you paid for it. Yep, the extra money would be a plus. Yep, she'll be just as unhappy as you are.

So now, you got not one, but two unhappy people. Maybe that's what you want. A way to make her see exactly how unhappy you are. You hate your job. You want more but without her income, that just won't happen.

Let's just say you are persistent and she goes back to work in the fall as a full time teacher. How does that make you happy? You still are going to hate your job. Will you find something else to complain/blame her for? My thought is yes.

Why? Cuz you ain't happy. And you're not going to BE happy unless you change YOU. Not her, you.

You're complaining now about how the house isn't as clean as you'd like. And that will only get worse when she works full time. You can combat that by hiring it done. More money out the window. More pressure to work more, longer, harder...

Heavy sigh. Get off the merry-go-round. Not everything has to be perfect, just perfect enough to obtain your Happy Zone. So, I ask you, where is YOUR Happy Zone?


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> The solution is simple....downsize the house and drive less expensive, previously owned vehicles. Take the savings from those two items to spend on vacations, date nights, and some of the other things you mentioned yearning for in your original post.


I agree. But again, since she's home and he's out earning a living...it seems like budgeting and cutting expenses should be organized by her. If she hasn't suggested this and worked towards it...it seems another area that she's deficient in.



> Let's just say you are persistent and she goes back to work in the fall as a full time teacher. How does that make you happy? You still are going to hate your job. Will you find something else to complain/blame her for? My thought is yes.
> 
> Why? Cuz you ain't happy. And you're not going to BE happy unless you change YOU. Not her, you


I don't agree with this. I think it greatly exacerbates an already difficult work situation when you've got someone at home not contributing fairly to the relationship. What she's doing is exploitive and wrong. That would definitely make me unhappy. 

I think having an actual partner who's sharing the burden would help a great deal. She's being a leech who can't even manage to keep a clean house. I HATE when my house isn't clean...especially when I come home after work. There's nothing more depressing than coming home from a hard day of work into a trainwreck, dirty, unorganized home. It actually would ruin my day. When I'm busy, my home being clean and organized is a necessity to me managing my stress level effectively.

I totally understand why posters are harping on this guy's potential methodology of dealing with the issue. Having an affair is totally not ok. But I cannot understand why everyone is letting this lazy woman off the hook who's unilaterally deciding not to work and then can't even bother cleaning up the house. To me, she sounds totally lazy...thoughtless...and if she didn't get her act together, I'd divorce her at the speed of light. Its like she thinks that just because she had kids, she doesn't have to contribute her fair share and that's bull.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Nikita2270 said:


> I totally understand why posters are harping on this guy's potential methodology of dealing with the issue. Having an affair is totally not ok. But I cannot understand why everyone is letting this lazy woman off the hook who's unilaterally deciding not to work and then can't even bother cleaning up the house. To me, she sounds totally lazy...thoughtless...and if she didn't get her act together, I'd divorce her at the speed of light. Its like she thinks that just because she had kids, she doesn't have to contribute her fair share and that's bull.


To be honest, everyone telling him how useless his partner is and how much more she should be helping will literally help him in absolutely no way whatsoever. Happens on the forums all the time of course, and still, never helps. We cannot change her. Helping him whine about his situation will not change it.

What can help him is realising his own part to play in his problems and how *he* can take responsibility for his own situation.

On top of that, people will be sceptical that he does so much and she so little when he has questionable morals. Not a huge jump to therefore be untruthful to not only us, but himself.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Nikita2270 said:


> I don't get this mentality.
> 
> The guy has asked her to work and she is unilaterally making the decision not to. That's what's wrong.
> 
> ...


She works 24 hours a week. Did you miss that part? 24 hours plus primary caregiver of two children is a pretty serious workload.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Lyris said:


> She works 24 hours a week. Did you miss that part? 24 hours plus primary caregiver of two children is a pretty serious workload.



Serious workload? Really. Ok. 

Did you miss where she was the one who wanted to get her degree and now refuses to work in that field. 

I can see why the OP is upset. His wife gets all her demands. She wanted a degree; he sacrificed for her to get it. She wanted to stay home; he made it happen, but she did uphold her end of keeping the house clean, etc. Now she refuses to get a job in her field.

I'm astonished at those defending her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Seriously, downgrade the cars and the house. She wants nice cars...she can work more hours. She wants a nice house...she can work more hours. 

Then you can have stuff for your kids and vacations. 

I agree she is wrong for not wanting to use her degree that you paid for. Maybe talk about having her start paying you back for the degree. 

One thing is for sure...you NEEEEEDDDD to tell her how close you were to cheating because you are so unhappy. It's likely she doesn't understand this at all. If she doesn't understand it, she can't fix it, even if she wants to. 

Apparently, she doesn't understand fully how you feel. When you tell her everything..even if it hurts her feelings...she will understand and can then make a choice on whether or not to live up to your standards. If she chooses not to, you need to tell her that you plan on just living together until the kids are grown and then you are taking off to Brazil. 

She needs to know everything - or she cannot possibly begin to work on it.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> Serious workload? Really. Ok.
> 
> Did you miss where she was the one who wanted to get her degree and now refuses to work in that field.
> 
> ...


I'm astonished at those defending him. He decided to cheat. He looked at a website aimed at married people wanting to cheat. He had an emotional affair, which he refuses to come clean about. He's planning to leave and live in Brazil.

This is not some put-upon, stand-up guy. This is a liar and a cheat.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> What can help him is realising his own part to play in his problems and how *he* can take responsibility for his own situation.


If you read my posts I mentioned several times that a) he shouldn't have an affair and b) he should talk to her about the seriousness of the issue and if she doesn't change, divorce her.

Ultimately the change needs to come from her. The only thing he needs to change is his marital status.



> She works 24 hours a week. Did you miss that part? 24 hours plus primary caregiver of two children is a pretty serious workload.


Lol...please. I work full-time, am/have raised two children, and always keep my house clean. Since I got divorced, I do it all by myself and its perfectly achievable. What he's asking for is perfectly reasonable. She's not pulling her weight and more importantly he's not happy with what she's doing...that's the significant point. She is doing whatever she pleases...in her home life and her worklife without having an agreement with her husband. 

I bet if she was even bothering to keep the house clean, he wouldn't be nearly so mad. But she can't even do that which is ridiculous.



> Seriously, downgrade the cars and the house. She wants nice cars...she can work more hours. She wants a nice house...she can work more hours.
> 
> Then you can have stuff for your kids and vacations.
> 
> ...


:iagree: He needs to be honest and admit what he did and then tell her that the marriage will be over if she doesn't start pulling her weight.



> I'm astonished at those defending him. He decided to cheat. He looked at a website aimed at married people wanting to cheat. He had an emotional affair, which he refuses to come clean about. He's planning to leave and live in Brazil.


I'm not defending his potential cheating. But I also understand that cheating is often a symptom of other types of betrayal. This is a woman who ignores her husband's reasonable requests and does whatever she feels like doing. Its betrayal of their marital agreements. Its not that surprising that he's planning vengeance to do exactly the same thing.

Again, its the wrong way to handle it but its a reaction to her being a crappy partner. 

Personally if I was him, I would have put my foot down a long time ago and told her either she pulled her weight or its a divorce. No way I'd take the risk of paying someone like that alimony.

He's handling the problem in completely the wrong way.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

So because you worked full time and raised kids everyone has to? Nonsense. There is more than one way to live. I'd never choose to live like that but I don't have an issue with others doing it. 

People change their minds. People have different standards of cleanliness. I think it's perfectly reasonable to put spending time with children ahead of cleaning the house. Presumably the OP wants his kids taken care of lovingly and well. 

I think it *is* pretty surprising that someone is planning to cheat and leave because their spouse is working 16 less hours a week than he would prefer. It's sh*tty behaviour.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Ok, if the object here is to earn money, what would happen if she pulled an income larger than his OUTSIDE her degree?

Will THAT make this all go away?

I have a BSA in Accounting but work in manufacturing. Why? Economy. My title is Cost Accountant but my job description never mentioned babysitting 12 grown men who ***** more about the price of a 12 pack of beer more than they worry about the job.

OP is bitter. I get that. But to blame his wife who works 24 hours a week and raises 2 kids is rather unbalanced. OP is miserable. Ok, I get that. It isn't her that's all to blame here.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Lyrid, no one said everyone had to work FT, only that it can be done while raising kids, and that 24 hours and raising kids isn't a serious workload. 

I didn't defend his potential cheating, just his wanting her to work in her field and bring in more money. 

How is that wrong of him to ask?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Lyris said:


> So because you worked full time and raised kids everyone has to? Nonsense. There is more than one way to live. I'd never choose to live like that but I don't have an issue with others doing it.
> 
> People change their minds. People have different standards of cleanliness. I think it's perfectly reasonable to put spending time with children ahead of cleaning the house. Presumably the OP wants his kids taken care of lovingly and well.
> 
> I think it *is* pretty surprising that someone is planning to cheat and leave because their spouse is working 16 less hours a week than he would prefer. It's sh*tty behaviour.



I believe the OP said not only is she working only PT, she's working in a low paid field simply because she likes the job. However, he works a job he hates to bring in extra income. If she worked in her field, maybe he could find a job he enjoyed more that paid slightly less. But he can't. He has to pick up her slack. 

It sounds like the OP would like a comfortable lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that. I bet if he tried to downsize, his wife would get upset. Yet she wants to contribute only a little bit. What if the OP decided to quit his job and take a lower paid job? I bet she would throw a fit! 

I definitely think it is wrong for the OP to cheat. But he sounds miserable. I would be miserable being married to a spouse like his. Maybe he will end up getting a divorce. I don't blame him for considering that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> So because you worked full time and raised kids everyone has to? Nonsense. There is more than one way to live. I'd never choose to live like that but I don't have an issue with others doing it.


lol, the only reason that I mentioned that I did it was because you suggested it was impossible to do. Its seriously not...women work full-time and raise families with clean homes every single day.

But my opinion or yours, for that matter, isn't important.

What IS important is that this OP is sick of his wife not living up the agreements that both of them made in good faith. She does what she wants to do and ignores that he's asking her to meet him halfway.

So in response (ill-advisedly), he's going off doing what he wants to do too.

They're both doing the wrong thing...mainly because they aren't complying with the terms of their partnership.

AGAIN, she doesn't get to unilaterally decide to not work a regular job and sit around with a dirty, filthy home unless she wants to lose a husband which is right where this is headed.

This OP needs to explain the seriousness of her betraying her marital agreement and work out a fair arrangement with her or he needs to divorce her and get someone who honors the deals she makes. Period.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> I believe the OP said not only is she working only PT, she's working in a low paid field simply because she likes the job. However, he works a job he hates to bring in extra income. If she worked in her field, maybe he could find a job he enjoyed more that paid slightly less. But he can't. He has to pick up her slack.
> 
> It sounds like the OP would like a comfortable lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that. I bet if he tried to downsize, his wife would get upset. Yet she wants to contribute only a little bit. What if the OP decided to quit his job and take a lower paid job? I bet she would throw a fit!
> 
> I definitely think it is wrong for the OP to cheat. But he sounds miserable. I would be miserable being married to a spouse like his. Maybe he will end up getting a divorce. I don't blame him for considering that.


:iagree: Well said.

I find it interesting that so many people think its absolutely terrible for him to consider betraying her (which it is) but then turn around and suggest what she's doing is ok. She's been betraying his trust and their agreement without his consent for some time which is what led him to consider cheating in the first place.

I'd divorce this woman in a heartbeat. She doesn't care what he wants or needs at all. (Plus I really have an issue with someone who doesn't work full-time not even bothering to clean up....pretty ridiculous. I like my house clean.)


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Nikita2270;
I'd divorce this woman in a heartbeat. She doesn't care what he wants or needs at all. (Plus I really have an issue with someone who doesn't work full-time not even bothering to clean up....pretty ridiculous. I like my house clean.)[/QUOTE said:


> There's a statistic that says somebody will change professions 5-6 times in a lifetime. If he really can't understand that her profession evolved from a teaching education to early childhood education, that's on him. She IS following a career path, just not the one he picked out for her.
> 
> The cleanliness thing is subjective. He'll pick apart anything she does because he's unhappy with her and this is a way for him to show his displeasure about it.
> 
> ...


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Revamped, public school teachers make quite a bit more than day care workers. So the career path argument isn't really valid here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Nikita2270 said:


> lol, the only reason that I mentioned that I did it was because you suggested it was impossible to do. Its seriously not...women work full-time and raise families with clean homes every single day.
> 
> But my opinion or yours, for that matter, isn't important.
> 
> ...


Please show me where I said it was impossible. I am perfectly aware that it's possible, as I've done it. However, working more than half the standard full-time hours plus being the primary caretaker for two children, one below school age, is a serious workload. You can lol as much as you like, it won't change the fact. 

And so what if she originally thought she'd be a primary school teacher, but has changed slightly to the field of early education. That's hardly 'breaking the marital agreement'. It is nowhere close to the breaking of actual martial vows by cheating/planning to cheat. 

Oh and "dirty, filthy home?" Wtf? Where is this said? And if it was said, it's being reported by a cheating, lying man, so hardly reliable.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

tennisstar said:


> Revamped, public school teachers make quite a bit more than day care workers. So the career path argument isn't really valid here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure it is. He's complaining he paid for an education she isn't using. But she is. Just not in the capacity HE wants. Salary or not, it takes a degree to step one foot inside a quality daycare.


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## code20 (Feb 5, 2014)

I think when you have kids you need to put their welfare above all other things. Teaching school is more than 9 to five. Teachers can easliy put in 60-70 hrs per week in while school is in session. My teacher friend has a husband with a flexible schedule so the kids can do sports etc, because she is just too busy during the school year.

You should have a talk with your wife, and see how she feels about being the breadwinner and you making less so you can be primary parent, so the kids don't have to miss out on drama or dance or soccer. Maybe if you say it by telling her she has had her turn, now its yours, it can be something she will understand.

Downgrade if you are stretched money wise. You have so many more years to earn money and only a limited amount of time with your kids. If you put money and material crap in front of your kids and their security and development you are doing the wrong thing. Fancy vacations and designer clothes don't mean crap when you are sitting in a daycare with a bunch of other ignored kids whose parents are chasing $$$.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Day care centers don't require degrees. Maybe is some states, but certainly not where I'm from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Code, day care kids aren't ignored. Their parents love them the same 

Must be nice to think that parents who put their kids in day care are selfish people chasing a dollar. I would hate for you to have to make that choice when it is all you can do because you have to earn a living.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Please show me where I said it was impossible. I am perfectly aware that it's possible, as I've done it. However, working more than half the standard full-time hours plus being the primary caretaker for two children, one below school age, is a serious workload. You can lol as much as you like, it won't change the fact.
> 
> And so what if she originally thought she'd be a primary school teacher, but has changed slightly to the field of early education. That's hardly 'breaking the marital agreement'. It is nowhere close to the breaking of actual martial vows by cheating/planning to cheat.
> 
> Oh and "dirty, filthy home?" Wtf? Where is this said? And if it was said, it's being reported by a cheating, lying man, so hardly reliable.


Lyrics, it's more than a small change, though. Public school teachers make quite a bit more. She probably makes a very small amount. So you can't compare the two.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Wow Code,That's really such an insult to parents who work outside the home
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Scarlet, exactly what I thought! Insulting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Maybe that's why the Great State of Ohio has standards of Education that's above the norm...

All Head Start State employees are REQUIRED to have an Early Childhood Education 4-yr degree before employment. Most day care centers require certification and continuing education to be even considered for employment. 

At least that's here in the Akron/Canton and Cleveland job markets.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I certainly can compare the two. I can do whatever I want.

She's found a career she's happy in. Teaching full time is hard on families. Again, I know because I've done it.

The OP thinks he wants his wife to work full-time. He doesn't know how hard it is to have two parents with small kids working full time. It's hard on the kids, it's hard on the household. If they can manage financially with one parent working part-time, it's better for their kids. 

My husband could earn more in a corporate setting, but he'd be miserable. I totally support him working in a job that he enjoys, even though it means our income is less. If the OP hates his job then it's up to him to get off his ass and make some changes. 

Anyway, none of this matters because obviously the OP is long gone.


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## code20 (Feb 5, 2014)

I feel that people should take care of their kids if they possibly can. My finances went bad, I had to go back to work full time, and my kids missed out on a lot and suffered for it. My kids are older now, but I can't afford camp, my daughters sit at home until I get here after work. I wish I could do more for them. When I hear people wanting to take parent time away from children for the sake of more cash and material possessions (not necessity) it really irritates me. My opinion is that you should put your kids first if you can swing the finances to make it happen.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I taught and had a small child. And I currently work in the corporate world. Im not miserable, so none of this necessarily means it is hard on the household or misery. So your thoughts are not necessarily everyone's thoughts. The majority of women I know work full time and have kids. Millions of women do it. It can be done without causing household issues. 

If you don't have to work full time, consider ourself lucky and be grateful. Most women don't have that option. Life is expensive and anyone staying home is a luxury these days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

code20 said:


> I feel that people should take care of their kids if they possibly can. My finances went bad, I had to go back to work full time, and my kids missed out on a lot and suffered for it. My kids are older now, but I can't afford camp, my daughters sit at home until I get here after work. My opinion is that you should put your kids first if you can swing the finances to make it happen, and I don't feel apologetic about that opinion.


It is your opinion, and that's fine, but you could give your opinion without being insulting to others who made different choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

code20 said:


> I think when you have kids you need to put their welfare above all other things. Teaching school is more than 9 to five. Teachers can easliy put in 60-70 hrs per week in while school is in session. My teacher friend has a husband with a flexible schedule so the kids can do sports etc, because she is just too busy during the school year.
> 
> You should have a talk with your wife, and see how she feels about being the breadwinner and you making less so you can be primary parent, so the kids don't have to miss out on drama or dance or soccer. Maybe if you say it by telling her she has had her turn, now its yours, it can be something she will understand.
> 
> Downgrade if you are stretched money wise. You have so many more years to earn money and only a limited amount of time with your kids. If you put money and material crap in front of your kids and their security and development you are doing the wrong thing. Fancy vacations and designer clothes don't mean crap when you are sitting in a daycare with a bunch of other ignored kids whose parents are chasing $$$.


Yeah "chasing $$$" you know like maybe to put it away for your kids' college, make sure they have health insurance, have savings for bad times, live in a neighborhood with good public schools. Yeesh.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

My parents both worked full time and kept a house pretty ***** and span. Can't remember them ever playing with me. Not once. Thank goodness we had clean floors to walk on and the fence painted and the lawn mowed, 'cause that's all that really matters.


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