# He says very hurtful things - should I forgive him?



## Mademoi (Nov 19, 2012)

Last night, in middle of an argument about money (we went out with friends who didn't pay their fair share and he got very upset about it in front of everyone so I told him how much his behavior upset me when we got home, saying it wasn't a big deal that they didn't pay and it escalated from there). I told him I don't trust him because he often says things that hurt me, and his response to me was, and I quote:

"If it wasn't for me your *** would be out on the street."

I told him how dare he make me feel like a charity case, and I haven't wanted to hear anything he has to say since. I feel humiliated, like he thinks he controls me financially and that he truly thinks he's the one keeping me afloat. He does make more money than I do but we both work full time jobs and it's not like I don't make enough to support myself if it came down to it. It really, really hurt me that he would say this.

The thing is, this isn't the first time he has said something this hurtful. A year ago, he told me if I ever got pregnant that he would abort the baby (rather than stand by me and try to work out having a child and taking responsibility for it). The day before my friend's wedding he told me he could never see us getting married. Two weeks ago he told me that his step-dad thinks I'm high maintenance and that his friends think I expect too much from him. Last week he told me I'm nuts and to get the hell out of his life.

I feel like I am nuts. He always says he's sorry and wants me to stay and loves me and dreams of a future together and that he is sorry for the things he said, but I don't feel loved at all lately. I told him last week that if he wanted me to stay that he needed to get individual counseling but he got very defensive about that. After what he said last night he finally texted me this morning saying he called counselors but hasn't decided which one to go to yet, but I hate that it takes him attacking me yet again in order for things to progress in this regard, and I hate the fact that he attacks me at all. I know he has a good heart but I feel like I'm bringing out the worst in him and for his sake I should leave (as well as for the sake of my feelings).

Part of me still does have very strong feelings for him and hopes that things can go back to how they were before he started being so hurtful, but I have lost all trust in him and am worried about what he might say next, and I can tell that this is affecting my ability to love him. I really, really miss that love and who he used to be and how loved and cherished he used to make me feel. He tells me that his love for is still there but it is very hard for me to believe him. 

I feel that if he works through these issues that make him lash out and attack me then maybe we could get back to that good, happy place we used to have in our relationship, or am I just fooling myself? Should I forgive the things he's said? I feel like if we were in a healthy relationship and he still really, truly did love me then he never would have said any of those things to begin with.

I know that our relationship problems come from both sides, FYI. Which is why we're already seeing couples counseling. He is not to blame for all our problems. I have major issues with forgiveness, I know that. I do, however, want him to seek counseling for the hurtful things he feels the desire to say because I feel like he either is telling the truth and loves me but feels this desire to push me around emotionally which needs to stop NOW and he needs to figure out why he does this, or else he doesn't love me and needs to see a counselor privately to help him figure that out.

For perspective, we've been together for 3 years, 9 months. We've been living together for a year and two months. We've been seeing couples counselors off and on for the past year, didn't really like the first two counselors, so we've been seeing the most recent counselor for the past three months.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Mademoi said:


> *it's not like I don't make enough to support myself if it came down to it. *
> 
> 
> * he told me if I ever got pregnant that he would abort the baby*
> ...


And you're still with him because..................................???? :scratchhead: No way in h#ll would I let a man treat me that way. I'd be out the door so fast, his head would spin.

Seriously, :wtf:


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Giving people some kind of ultimatum works sometimes. If a person truly loves another person, then the fear of losing her/him will compel the offending party to change. Especially if an adamant person changes and gets the acts together then it is permanent and beneficial for everyone.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

he's abusing you

stop waiting for him to change back into 'what he used to be'

he's showing you who he REALLY is right now


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

you two sound totally incompatible. you have two totally different value systems. he is callous, hurtful, sicko (he'll abort the baby???!?). he doesn't know or care that he hurts you. He's an egomaniac (he'll throw you out on your a**). What the h*ll is that about? why in the world would you take that. people who love you don't say that. people who like you don't say that. this is a big big warning sign. you're seeing counselors before a marriage because you want so badly to make this work? you're trying too hard. he said he won't marry you. he's mean and not nice. my heart goes out to you. nobody deserves to be treated that way and don't for one minute think it's ok. what is so good about him that it's worth fighting for? what he used to be? he was charming when he courted you and you didn't live together. now you live together and you see what he's really all about. want more for yourself.


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## Mademoi (Nov 19, 2012)

I know. I guess I stay because he can be sweet and caring and supportive, and I feel like his saying these things to me is my fault. I never used to say anything to him that was disrespectful at all. But once he told me the abortion thing I started calling him an ******* when he said things like that to me, or saying **** you, or threatening to leave but I never actually have. After he told me some of these things I have responded with "are you stupid?!", and when he told me he believed in something I found silly I told him he was an idiot. I have told him he was a mean, hurtful person. I have been just as mean and callous. Since I am not blameless, I feel like there is a chance that we can fix this.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Stop the threats....................and just leave!


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Mademoi said:


> Since I am not blameless, I feel like there is a chance that we can fix this.


Uggghhh the whole situation is toxic. You two are toxic for each other. Get out while you still can. Childless and unmarried!!!


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Mademoi said:


> Part of me still does have very strong feelings for him and hope
> that things can go back to how they were before he started being so hurtful....


Hope is not a plan.

He's emotionally & vebally abusive. Quit blaming yourself.

Remember, you are not a victim of abuse, you are a "volunteer" as long as you "allow" him to abuse you.

If you love him so much, then by all means give him a chance to stop abusing you but he probably cannot do it on his own. He needs anger management & counseling & that might not even work.

I'm so glad you came to this forum before you married this man.


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## Mademoi (Nov 19, 2012)

I showed him this forum, in the hopes that he would see how toxic we are for each other and we could come to an end mutually, both knowing that we're toxic for each other and I'm not crazy for having hurt feelings and that it's NOT all his fault!!

He told me that I am making myself look good and not to take anything seriously on here given what people are saying. And that I'm not being fair because I'm not giving the whole story. 

So the whole story is, I've pushed him away five times throughout our relationship, I smoke occasionally which he hates and I still do it even though for awhile he wouldn't even kiss me because of it but he has since agreed to kiss me afterward. I've said **** you to him multiple times during our arguments, I am in debt and depend on his support because my own income isn't enough to pay our rent, I've kicked him out of the house or I myself have left the house after the major arguments I've discussed before, I tell him to wash his hands too often, I don't like his jokes, and I don't have enough empathy for his feelings.

We went seven months without being intimate (though to be fair he never once asked to be intimate that whole time), and we don't sleep in the same bed five out of seven nights of the week lately, usually with him on the couch after I have told him to stop talking and get out. Is there anything I've left out, dear?? 

I don't want to make myself look good. I want to make myself look as bad as possible because I truly want to know: if I am a bad person, should I still leave or should I stay?


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

where's the joy and happiness here? where's the love? the mutual respect? the support for each other? the being on the same team part? although successful marriages are great before and after the wedding, they should at least be great before the wedding. you are totally not seeing the red flags and warning signs and caution ahead signs. it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong or deserve this or not - the bottom line is that you two are not compatible. you are not friends. friends don't tell each other to f*** off, or that they are an a****** or that they're an idiot. even if you are to blame, so what? that means you should stick this out? he's bringing out the worst in you, not the best.


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## Mademoi (Nov 19, 2012)

Oh, I also forgot that he told me that all the counselors he spoke to on the phone today while making an appointment told him that he's right and that I'm in the wrong.

You're right. I know it's over I'm just scared because we live in a very expensive city and I have no one to stay with during the moving out/apartment hunting process. And getting an apartment here is very difficult. The process of all that coupled with starting over while all my friends are getting married and are deliriously happy makes me feel very scared and like a total failure. I know it has to be done, but it's the hardest thing I've ever had to face.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Yes, it is HARD to leave, I agree with you. So make a plan.

Pay off your debts or get a debt consolidation plan. Look for a better job so you can support yourself. Move in with a friend or family member until you can be financially independent.

Baby steps. You will get there.


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## Athena1 (Nov 7, 2012)

Mademoi said:


> Oh, I also forgot that he told me that all the counselors he spoke to on the phone today while making an appointment told him that he's right and that I'm in the wrong.
> 
> You're right. I know it's over I'm just scared because we live in a very expensive city and I have no one to stay with during the moving out/apartment hunting process. And getting an apartment here is very difficult. The process of all that coupled with starting over while all my friends are getting married and are deliriously happy makes me feel very scared and like a total failure. I know it has to be done, but it's the hardest thing I've ever had to face.


I think once you get out of the situation you will feel like you have a lot more power to solve these logistic problems. Being around him is draining your energy, and it's filling you with self-doubt. It's hard to make any kind of positive change in that environment. 

Just get out. Stay with a family member or friend and I think you'll find yourself able to make a plan. Take your life back and move on with the next step.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Why is this so common!!!!

Okay, if he kicks the dog while at the same time saying "I love you," what is that dog going to remember? THE FKCUKING KICK!!!! Words are just words and most of them are lies. "I'm sorry" doesn't work anymore since it seems some of us lost our morals years ago. Now, I'm Sorry says "here is a bandaid to put on that huge cut in your back, now leave me alone."

This will only escalate as time goes by. Think about your future. I know you always thought your future would be with HIM, but just because you want it doesn't make it so. 

Mental abuse is sometimes more damaging than physical abuse. The physical pain and bruising go away, but mental abuse? That stays inside you, festering, making you question everything about you. Makes you doubt things. Makes you doubt yourself as a person because if you had a friend in a similar relationship you would tell her to run. Why don't you run? 

I was horribly mentally abused my whole childhood so I know how it feels, even little comments that no one else notices, but you and your abuser notice. He won't change, he probably thinks you are good for nothing and enjoy putting you down since deep inside he knows he is not a real man. No real man would pick a woman, any woman. 

You need to take action and not put it off. It is going to escalate. For now, try to emotionally pull away from him so his barbs don't effect you emotionally. Indifference is much harder to deal with than anger and crying and if he is not getting the responses he wants from you (crying, pleading with him to stop), he is going to be confused. Most men like this have caveman brains. Their thinking patterns are like this:

BELLY GRUMBLE

WHERE'S WOMAN? BELLY GRUMBLE

WOMAN? WOMAN? (never even coming to the conclusion that he can get his butt up and make himself something).

After caveman eats and needs to be hosed down in the back yard by you he will complain at you WATER TOO COLD! WATER TOO COLD! MAKE WARMER WOMAN, NOW!!!! Then he will beat on his chest and fart, walk away wet scratching his balls.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I know exactly how to fix him...for his NEXT woman. Too bad it always works out that way. Leave him. It will CRUSH him. But that will be NOTHING compared to the realization that it was his fault. If someone wants to FIX the marriage, I would explain how to go dark and wait for him to take SERIOUS action to change, but that won;t work for you guys. No kids, only a few years invested...

Just leave. For BOTH of you. I KNOW he'll get better once tough love kicks him in the cajones. But YOU are too far gone. You'll never be able to NOT see the abuser. 5 years of perfect man and ONE SLIP and he's back to an abuser in your eyes.

Just leave. Start over. Living in a womans shelter for a few months while you figure things out will be lightyears better than the life in store for BOTH OF YOU if you stay. 

So leave. I wish my wife did 15 years ago. She stayed because the alternatives were not as good. Now there are five of us in a broken home.


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