# Newbie - Bit lost on whether boundaries are known



## Uk1985

Hi all, I'm new, been lurking for about a week looking at advice on old post. 
Im 37(m) with 33 GF, been together 6 years and have 2 young daughters 2yr old and 6 months.

My issue is my GF has been invited to a drag show by her mam. I mentioned that they are strippers there as i had seen the post for the show on Facebook. They are trying to tell me its just a drag show when i know its not. It wasn't organised by either of them so I don't know if they realise they are going to be there or just basically lying about it (probably the latter but my GF doesn't really look into what a show is about she just agrees to go) when i mentioned they would be there she just calls me paranoid and huffy.
I thought i had made it clear that i wasn't comfortable with her going to see strippers when we 1st started dating. 

Now to me it is a big boundary, as i class it as borderline cheating but this is the 2nd time she has arranged a night to go and see strippers. The 1st one was an obvious strip show amd she knew i wasn't happy, again got called huffy. The night never happened but that was because her friend couldn't make it. I don't know if she knows its a big deal to me or if she even cares.

My question is when is best time to bring it up? Wait until its a few days away and mention it or bring it up now and have a possible frosty atmosphere leading up to it, especially if she doesn't cancel going. I think when i bring it up it will cause an argument, probably get called controlling and then she'll bring up times I've done something wrong so she might get more stubborn to go because she knows how much i dont like it.
I don't even know what the consequences would be. If we never had the kids i would've been prepared to walk away but now its not so easy. Will i look like the bad guy if i walk away over it? Is it worth walking over it as i know a lot of people don't see it as a big deal and will call me pathetic. But every time i think about her going i feel physically sick and start to get overcome by anxiety to the point im shaking. I'm not sure the best way to handle it.


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## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> Hi all, I'm new, been lurking for about a week looking at advice on old post.
> Im 37(m) with 33 GF, been together 6 years and have 2 young daughters 2yr old and 6 months.
> 
> My issue is my GF has been invited to a drag show by her mam. I mentioned that they are strippers there as i had seen the post for the show on Facebook. They are trying to tell me its just a drag show when i know its not. It wasn't organised by either of them so I don't know if they realise they are going to be there or just basically lying about it (probably the latter but my GF doesn't really look into what a show is about she just agrees to go) when i mentioned they would be there she just calls me paranoid and huffy.
> I thought i had made it clear that i wasn't comfortable with her going to see strippers when we 1st started dating.
> 
> Now to me it is a big boundary, as i class it as borderline cheating but this is the 2nd time she has arranged a night to go and see strippers. The 1st one was an obvious strip show amd she knew i wasn't happy, again got called huffy. The night never happened but that was because her friend couldn't make it. I don't know if she knows its a big deal to me or if she even cares.
> 
> My question is when is best time to bring it up? Wait until its a few days away and mention it or bring it up now and have a possible frosty atmosphere leading up to it, especially if she doesn't cancel going. I think when i bring it up it will cause an argument, probably get called controlling and then she'll bring up times I've done something wrong so she might get more stubborn to go because she knows how much i dont like it.
> I don't even know what the consequences would be. If we never had the kids i would've been prepared to walk away but now its not so easy. Will i look like the bad guy if i walk away over it? Is it worth walking over it as i know a lot of people don't see it as a big deal and will call me pathetic. But every time i think about her going i feel physically sick and start to get overcome by anxiety to the point im shaking. I'm not sure the best way to handle it.


Welcome to TAM.

You need to be very clear with yourself about how big of a deal this is to you. Be very clear with yourself about what happens if she tells you she’s going anyway, no matter what you think.

If you consider this cheating, then that’s your prerogative. Many might come here and challenge that, but it doesn’t matter. It’s your right to have that boundary.

One you are clear about the issue in your own mind, do not delay ”the talk”. Do not tell her she can’t go, do not try to control her actions. She has a right to go if she wants. And you have a right to not be there when she returns. It’s her choice whether to respect your boundary or not.

But do not make idle threats, you will just look weak and pathetic. If this is really a hard line for you, then enforce it.

Now that I’ve said that, I wonder if there are other reasons that you don’t trust your gf? Is it a self-esteem issue with you or does she have a history of risky behavior or?


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## Diceplayer

You're not married, there's no commitment, no vows so she can do whatever she wants.


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## gameopoly5

Good point by, Diceplayer.
You`re not married and although your girlfriend is the mother of your children, technically she is still a free agent and she has no moral duty to stay loyal to you as would an official wife.
All the OP can do is explain his girlfriend his dissatisfaction of her attending such events.
Any reasons why this couple have not got married?


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## Jimi007

I know you don't like it.....But , are you really going to leave your relationship over a drag queen show ?

Do you not trust your wife ?

Has she cheated before ?

Seems pretty extreme to me.


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## Uk1985

[


BeyondRepair007 said:


> Welcome to TAM.
> 
> You need to be very clear with yourself about how big of a deal this is to you. Be very clear with yourself about what happens if she tells you she’s going anyway, no matter what you think.
> 
> If you consider this cheating, then that’s your prerogative. Many might come here and challenge that, but it doesn’t matter. It’s your right to have that boundary.
> 
> One you are clear about the issue in your own mind, do not delay ”the talk”. Do not tell her she can’t go, do not try to control her actions. She has a right to go if she wants. And you have a right to not be there when she returns. It’s her choice whether to respect your boundary or not.
> 
> But do not make idle threats, you will just look weak and pathetic. If this is really a hard line for you, then enforce it.
> 
> Now that I’ve said that, I wonder if there are other reasons that you don’t trust your gf? Is it a self-esteem issue with you or does she have a history of risky behavior or?


Thats the issue im having with the consequences as it is something i tgink is a big deal and matters to me even if others dont. But is it big enough to walk away from? What other consequences are they?

It isn't a trust issue, its just what i considered acceptable in a relationship and getting dry humped by a stripper isn't acceptable to me.


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## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> Good point by, Diceplayer.
> You`re not married and although your girlfriend is the mother of your children, technically she is still a free agent and she has no moral duty to stay loyal to you as would an official wife.
> All the OP can do is explain his girlfriend his dissatisfaction of her attending such events.
> Any reasons why this couple have not got married?


Not married but still have boundaries in a relationship. It wouldn't make a difference if we were married as I couldn't control what she does then either, shes still free to do what she wants. 
We have lived together 5 years, joint mortgage/bank accounts and got the kids, basically married in all but name. Plus in debt that shelling out for a wedding doesn't seem worthwhile.


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## Uk1985

Jimi007 said:


> I know you don't like it.....But , are you really going to leave your relationship over a drag queen show ?
> 
> Do you not trust your wife ?
> 
> Has she cheated before ?
> 
> Seems pretty extreme to me.


Yeah it seems extreme but I don't know what else i could do to show that its not acceptable or I don't do anything and then its pointless having any boundaries.

Never cheated before but that isnt the issue,more what I'm comfortable with


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## Jimi007

So your saying it's a deal breaker ?

I guess it really bothers you...

It's a personal choice boundary that you have. 

Tell her , if you go its over.... Give her the ultimatum. 

I still think it is extreme.


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## D0nnivain

You need to bring it up now, not sandbag her with it later. 

She is the mother of your children & you seem like you are not willing to walk away from this relationship over it. So that leaves you with what options exactly? Very few.

Try being calm. Talk to her. Tell her your views on strip shows that you see them as borderline cheating. I disagree with your assessment & she may too but if it's how you feel you need to tell her in no uncertain terms. Ask why she wants to go. Ask why she thinks it's OK to disrespect you & hurt you. Do not raise your voice or make idle threats. Really listen to her answers. Offer alternatives that you are OK with. 

But before you start down this road you have to know in your own heart how far you are prepared to go over this. If you are not willing to walk away there aren't mechanisms by which you can punish undesirable behavior. 

What are you going to do if she says that she's going because she is an unmarried woman free to do what she wants? You claim marriage isn't worth the cost but I think you are mixing up marriage with a wedding Two kids & a mortgage later, all the trappings but not of the legal protections, your GF may see things very differently.


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## Uk1985

Jimi007 said:


> So your saying it's a deal breaker ?
> 
> I guess it really bothers you...
> 
> It's a personal choice boundary that you have.
> 
> Tell her , if you go its over.... Give her the ultimatum.
> 
> I still think it is extreme.


Giving her the ultimatum willcome across as controlling though I would've thought


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## Uk1985

D0nnivain said:


> You need to bring it up now, not sandbag her with it later.
> 
> She is the mother of your children & you seem like you are not willing to walk away from this relationship over it. So that leaves you with what options exactly? Very few.
> 
> Try being calm. Talk to her. Tell her your views on strip shows that you see them as borderline cheating. I disagree with your assessment & she may too but if it's how you feel you need to tell her in no uncertain terms. Ask why she wants to go. Ask why she thinks it's OK to disrespect you & hurt you. Do not raise your voice or make idle threats. Really listen to her answers. Offer alternatives that you are OK with.
> 
> But before you start down this road you have to know in your own heart how far you are prepared to go over this. If you are not willing to walk away there aren't mechanisms by which you can punish undesirable behavior.
> 
> What are you going to do if she says that she's going because she is an unmarried woman free to do what she wants? You claim marriage isn't worth the cost but I think you are mixing up marriage with a wedding Two kids & a mortgage later, all the trappings but not of the legal protections, your GF may see things very differently.


Once you're married you can't control them to what they do or where they go. You're still in the boat as in a long term commited relationship where it depends if they respect you enough not to do what you find as unreasonable.

Just because we are not married doesn't mean I can't have boundaries I wouldn't like crossed and I would like her respect them. She has her boundaries, one of them is if i start smoking again instead of vaping she'll leave me, might not be that big an issue in other peoples relationships byt to her its important so i respect it. Now she might feel that she doesn't have to respect them as you say that is why she is prepared to go the strippers or she doesn't fully understand that it is a boundary for me.

You're right about talking to her but i dont want it to sound like an ultimatum nor do I want to say it then do nothing if she still goes because then im just a doormat but in truth i dont want to walk away altogether. I'm at a loss really


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## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> My issue is my GF has been invited to a drag show by her mam. I mentioned that they are strippers there


So is her mum going with her? (And I assume you mean male strippers?) 

And, is it possible her mum is trying to stoke trouble between you? Just a thought. 



> I don't know if they realise they are going to be there or just basically lying about it (probably the latter but my GF doesn't really look into what a show is about she just agrees to go)


You are a little bit contradicting yourself here. Do you think she doesn't know, or that she does (and is disregarding your preferences)??



> Now to me it is a big boundary


That's really NOT what a boundary is. Boundaries are NOT where you try to set rules for what someone else can do. That never works.



> she knew i wasn't happy, again got called huffy. .... *I don't know* if she knows its a big deal to me or if she even cares.


Again, this sounds a bit foggy. From what you say, yes you know that she DOES know it's a big deal to you, and is not willing to submit. And *that* is your issue. What do you do with a partner who's not willing to take account of your feelings about it. 



> My question is when is best time to bring it up?


_Not _the most important question. 

The important question is why does this mean so much to you that you feel physically sick? 
*You need to find that out*. 



> I think when i bring it up it will cause an argument


It might depend how you bring it up. Are you afraid of arguments? 



> so she might get more stubborn to go because she knows how much i dont like it.


Is that how she is? Find out why. 



> Will i look like the bad guy if i walk away over it?


To who? To most people, yes, you probably will. I think it would be a big mistake to "walk away" over this, but it sounds like the relationship could use some improvment. 

Let me ask you, if she was telling it, what would be her side of the story?


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## SunCMars

Diceplayer said:


> You're not married, there's no commitment, no vows so she can do whatever she wants.


Not quite.. 

Even if they were married she can choose to do whatever she likes.

Those choices can lead to consequences, however.

Life is all about compromises.


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## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> So is her mum going with her? (And I assume you mean male strippers?)
> 
> And, is it possible her mum is trying to stoke trouble between you? Just a thought.
> 
> 
> You are a little bit contradicting yourself here. Do you think she doesn't know, or that she does (and is disregarding your preferences)??
> 
> 
> That's really NOT what a boundary is. Boundaries are NOT where you try to set rules for what someone else can do. That never works.
> 
> 
> Again, this sounds a bit foggy. From what you say, yes you know that she DOES know it's a big deal to you, and is not willing to submit. And *that* is your issue. What do you do with a partner who's not willing to take account of your feelings about it.
> 
> 
> _Not _the most important question.
> 
> The important question is why does this mean so much to you that you feel physically sick?
> *You need to find that out*.
> 
> 
> It might depend how you bring it up. Are you afraid of arguments?
> 
> 
> Is that how she is? Find out why.
> 
> 
> To who? To most people, yes, you probably will. I think it would be a big mistake to "walk away" over this, but it sounds like the relationship could use some improvment.
> 
> Let me ask you, if she was telling it, what would be her side of the story?


Never had no issue with her mam so cant imagine it being that. Yes male strippers and her mam is going.

I think she doesn't know that they are going to be strippers there. If she does she is telling me she doesn't as she knows i won't like it and doesn't want me to make an issue of it. I would've thought she knew my take on going to see strippers as it had been mentioned so maybe ive answered my own question that she just doesnt care. I have said before if we were to get married and she had strippers at her hen id call off the wedding, so she should know how i feel.

I think the reason i feel physically sick over it is because i class it as borderline cheating and i get the same response as if i found out she had cheated. The thought of her getting sexually close to another man makes me feel sick, whether its with strippers or fully cheating with PIV.

I don't know how she would describe it but she would probably think i was trying to tell her what to do and that is where she would get stubborn and do the opposite as she doesn't like being told what to do.

Not afraid of an argument but if it becomes an argument it won't solve my problem of telling her im unhappy about her going, it will just be a big argument that will cause resentment and tension in the house.


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## D0nnivain

Start by telling her how hurt you are.


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## Diceplayer

Uk1985 said:


> Just because we are not married doesn't mean I can't have boundaries I wouldn't like crossed and I would like her respect them. She has her boundaries, one of them is if i start smoking again instead of vaping she'll leave me, might not be that big an issue in other peoples relationships byt to her its important so i respect it. Now she might feel that she doesn't have to respect them as you say that is why she is prepared to go the strippers or she doesn't fully understand that it is a boundary for me.


All this boundary talk is a bunch of psycho babble. The way it works is that a person states that, 'if you do this, then my response will be this. It's like when my wife told me that if I grew a beard that she would not kiss me as long as I had it. She didn't tell me that I couldn't grow one, that would be controlling. She just informed me of the consequences. Same with your GF when she told you that if you start smoking, she will leave. She didn't tell you that you can't smoke, she just informed you of the consequences. That's how it works. So you talk to her and tell her what your response will be if she goes to the drag show. Then you do what you say. It's that simple.


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## Mybabysgotit

Uk1985 said:


> Hi all, I'm new, been lurking for about a week looking at advice on old post.
> Im 37(m) with 33 GF, been together 6 years and have 2 young daughters 2yr old and 6 months.
> 
> My issue is my GF has been invited to a drag show by her mam. I mentioned that they are strippers there as i had seen the post for the show on Facebook. They are trying to tell me its just a drag show when i know its not. It wasn't organised by either of them so I don't know if they realise they are going to be there or just basically lying about it (probably the latter but my GF doesn't really look into what a show is about she just agrees to go) when i mentioned they would be there she just calls me paranoid and huffy.
> I thought i had made it clear that i wasn't comfortable with her going to see strippers when we 1st started dating.
> 
> Now to me it is a big boundary, as i class it as borderline cheating but this is the 2nd time she has arranged a night to go and see strippers. The 1st one was an obvious strip show amd she knew i wasn't happy, again got called huffy. The night never happened but that was because her friend couldn't make it. I don't know if she knows its a big deal to me or if she even cares.
> 
> My question is when is best time to bring it up? Wait until its a few days away and mention it or bring it up now and have a possible frosty atmosphere leading up to it, especially if she doesn't cancel going. I think when i bring it up it will cause an argument, probably get called controlling and then she'll bring up times I've done something wrong so she might get more stubborn to go because she knows how much i dont like it.
> I don't even know what the consequences would be. If we never had the kids i would've been prepared to walk away but now its not so easy. Will i look like the bad guy if i walk away over it? Is it worth walking over it as i know a lot of people don't see it as a big deal and will call me pathetic. But every time i think about her going i feel physically sick and start to get overcome by anxiety to the point im shaking. I'm not sure the best way to handle it.


No drag show I've ever been to had strippers. I am all for boundaries but this seems over the top.


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## Uk1985

[


Mybabysgotit said:


> No drag show I've ever been to had strippers. I am all for boundaries but this seems over the top.


Says on the advertisement, "Male helpers" and 2 warnings that there will be full nudity. 
Drag show I wouldn't have a problem with. We went to one on holiday that was all drag and that was a good laugh. This one is a drag artist with strippers.


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## BootsAndJeans

This really is about the two of you coming to acceptable boundaries. I find it difficult to understand having children with a woman outside of marriage. In my opinion, you have some very leaky boundaries in your relationship already.

My wife and I have firm, mutually agreed to boundaries. We don't go to sex clubs (strippers, etc), we don't go out partying without each other and we do not drink (I used to drink socially until cancer). 

You cannot make her follow your rules. What you can do is communicate what your actions are going to be (consequences) if she crosses your boundaries. Frankly, I find it strange fir a mother of young children, regardless of marital status, to behave like a care free 19 year old.


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## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> she would probably think i was trying to tell her what to do and that is where she would get stubborn and do the opposite as she doesn't like being told what to do.


That's interesting, isn't it?

So don't tell her what to do. Tell her how you feel about it.


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## Uk1985

BootsAndJeans said:


> This really is about the two of you coming to acceptable boundaries. I find it difficult to understand having children with a woman outside of marriage. In my opinion, you have some very leaky boundaries in your relationship already.
> 
> My wife and I have firm, mutually agreed to boundaries. We don't go to sex clubs (strippers, etc), we don't go out partying without each other and we do not drink (I used to drink socially until cancer).
> 
> You cannot make her follow your rules. What you can do is communicate what your actions are going to be (consequences) if she crosses your boundaries. Frankly, I find it strange fir a mother of young children, regardless of marital status, to behave like a care free 19 year old.


Very common to have children outside of marriage, not exactly no sex before marriage. The only difference between us as a couple and a married couple is a piece of paper to say we are married. Everything else is the same. 

Im not bothered if she wants to go out, shes not exactly acting care free but shes free to go out whenever, its just going to strippers I have a problem with and think its unacceptable in a committed relationship.


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## SunCMars

It could be, she wants only to get a rise out of you.

To see if you remain protective of your union 🤔?

Some women like drama, enjoy those gambits.

Or, it is her, bringing the curtain down on the whole not-married relationship.

We shall see, shan't we?


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## Diana7

Uk1985 said:


> Very common to have children outside of marriage, not exactly no sex before marriage. The only difference between us as a couple and a married couple is a piece of paper to say we are married. Everything else is the same.
> 
> Im not bothered if she wants to go out, shes not exactly acting care free but shes free to go out whenever, its just going to strippers I have a problem with and think its unacceptable in a committed relationship.


That's not the only difference. The 'piece of paper' is the legal proof that a couple have made a commitment to each other in front of others and are legally married. It's not the same. 

As far as the show, there is no way I would put up with it. 
Trouble is you have 2 small children who are dependant on you not to walk out.


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## Uk1985

SunCMars said:


> It could be, she wants only to get a rise out of you.
> 
> To see if you remain protective of your union 🤔?
> 
> Some women like drama, enjoy those gambits.
> 
> Or, it is her, bringing the curtain down on the whole not-married relationship.
> 
> We shall see, shan't we?


I don't think shes trying to create drama. Maybe testing me to see if its still a big issue or just doesnt care at all.


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## Uk1985

Diana7 said:


> That's not the only difference. The 'piece of paper' is the legal proof that a couple have made a commitment to each other in front of others and are legally married. It's not the same.
> 
> As far as the show, there is no way I would put up with it.
> Trouble is you have 2 small children who are dependant on you not to walk out.


The kids are the biggest problem when it comes to consequences because I'm not only walking out on my GF for doing something I don't like but walking out on them as well and it is not fair on them to suffer.


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## TRy

Uk1985 said:


> Giving her the ultimatum willcome across as controlling though I would've thought


By definition being in a committed relationship with any boundaries require that you both control your actions. There is nothing wrong with having relationship boundaries.


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## Laurentium

SunCMars said:


> Or, it is her, bringing the curtain down on the whole not-married relationship.


Good point. ... this may be a side point, but do you know @Uk1985 whether she really wants to be legally married? Or the opposite?


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## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> Good point. ... this may be a side point, but do you know @Uk1985 whether she really wants to be legally married? Or the opposite?


She has always said she wanted to be engaged, to "belong" to someone. She has said before she doesnt want to get married or doesn't think she wants to be married because her mam and dad divorced and she doesn't want to go through that. 
I've always told her we will get engaged but want to be the right time and the right setting to propose not just do it anywhere for the sake of it.


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## Uk1985

TRy said:


> By definition being in a committed relationship with any boundaries require that you both control your actions. There is nothing wrong with having relationship boundaries.


That is my thinking too but I seem to get push back when i raise an issue.
She used to have communication over text with our next door neighbour sometimes, i said i wasn't comfortable with it and she said i need to trust her. She then received a message from him one day when i was at work saying "hello Sexy" she sent me the message to say she wasn't happy about it, told him that she wasn't happy and I told him myself that it wasn't on, he got the message. But because of that i know I can trust her and not as uncomfortable now if she messages someone of the opposite sex as she always tells me about it.


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## gameopoly5

Diceplayer said:


> All this boundary talk is a bunch of psycho babble. The way it works is that a person states that, 'if you do this, then my response will be this. It's like when my wife told me that if I grew a beard that she would not kiss me as long as I had it. She didn't tell me that I couldn't grow one, that would be controlling. She just informed me of the consequences. *Same with your GF when she told you that if you start smoking, she will leave. She didn't tell you that you can't smoke, she just informed you of the consequences.* That's how it works. So you talk to her and tell her what your response will be if she goes to the drag show. Then you do what you say. It's that simple.


Actually you make another very good point.
If my wife hated cigarettes and I told her I`m going to start smoking again, she wouldn`t say if I do, she`ll leave, my wife would probably give me a heated lecture on the health risks associated with smoking and then conclude with, provided I do not smoke in the house or near her. My wife wouldn`t threaten to leave over something so trivial.
This suggests to me that the OP`s girlfriend is not as committed to the OP as he is to her.and she doesn`t care if he approves of her attending that event or not, she`s going anyway.
Those hen dos have become renowned for girlfriends, fiancees and wives getting up to no good at these events and considering the OP`s girlfriend has threatened to go the full 180 if he starts smoking, I can see now why he has insecurities regarding his GF attending that hen do.
Also, does he know for sure his GF`s mother is going with her?
Perhaps the OP should unexpectedly turn up, hide in the background and watch what his girlfriend is up to, because at first I thought the OP was being paranoid but on second thoughts, I don`t think I`d trust her either.


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## *Deidre*

There's nothing wrong with boundaries, even if you're not married. Does she have any boundaries with you (that she'd like you to respect), OP?


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## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> Actually you make another very good point.
> If my wife hated cigarettes and I told her I`m going to start smoking again, she wouldn`t say if I do, she`ll leave, my wife would probably give me a heated lecture on the health risks associated with smoking and then conclude with, provided I do not smoke in the house or near her. My wife wouldn`t threaten to leave over something so trivial.
> This suggests to me that the OP`s girlfriend is not as committed to the OP as he is to her.and she doesn`t care if he approves of her attending that event or not, she`s going anyway.
> Those hen dos have become renowned for girlfriends, fiancees and wives getting up to no good at these events and considering the OP`s girlfriend has threatened to go the full 180 if he starts smoking, I can see now why he has insecurities regarding his GF attending that hen do.
> Also, does he know for sure his GF`s mother is going with her?
> Perhaps the OP should unexpectedly turn up, hide in the background and watch what his girlfriend is up to, because at first I thought the OP was being paranoid but on second thoughts, I don`t think I`d trust her either.


Thats the thing whenever I raise an issue I don't agree with its met with push back and an attitude of stubbornness and "deal with it".
Maybe you're right and she doesn't care enough to actually stop doing something because I don't like it. Or thinks not doing something because I've asked is dictating her behaviour or controlling her.
Its not a hen party, just a night out, but woman going to watch male strippers when they're full of drink are notorious for getting out of hand. Her mam is going because shes treated her to the ticket and said it was just a drag show.
I won't turn up out the blue as i have the kids to watch but i think the best thing is to sit down and have a conversation about it, try not to have an argument over it and if she insists on going I'll have to have a good think of how much of an issue it is to me.

Maybe going to see strippers isnt such a big deal to some but maybe the lack of respect with a "deal with it" attitude after i make my feelings clear is much worse and damaging for our relationship.


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## Uk1985

*Deidre* said:


> There's nothing wrong with boundaries, even if you're not married. Does she have any boundaries with you (that she'd like you to respect), OP?


Yes she has, dont start smoking again. 
No contact with exes. 
No going to away football matches as i met one of my exes through football and my exes friends still travel to them. 
No lapdances (ironically)
And shes very questionable if i have contact with opposite sex, even if its through work. Even thou theres no history of cheating. 

They what i can think off the top of my head but shes not shy to voice her objections if she doesn't like something and i respect them. I just don't think she respects mine as like i say this is the 2nd time shes arranged to see strippers but the 1st time didn't happen


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> if she insists on going I'll have to have a good think of how much of an issue it is to me.


That's a key point right there. You need clarity on this before you ever talk to her. "How much does this mean to you."

In a scenario where smoking is a boundary, her consequence for you could be "If you smoke, then I won't be in the same room with you until you brush your teeth, take a shower, and change your clothes".

But in your case, going to the show violates something emotional and causes lack of trust and a realization of her disregard for you.
Taking a shower won't help that. Nothing will help that in the short term, and you'll have to find a way to deal with it.

Or

Have the conversation, but be confident in your position and state clear consequences. Then she will make the choice about what she wants for her future.

You can't be faulted for having a position and sticking by it.
She might not agree with the position you are taking, but maybe you don't agree with her smoking or football boundary.
That's the way relationships are conducted...communicate and decide if you're ok with what the other person requires in a partner.

So communicate _now_ and let her decide. Don't lead her on with silence.


----------



## *Deidre*

Uk1985 said:


> Yes she has, dont start smoking again.
> No contact with exes.
> No going to away football matches as i met one of my exes through football and my exes friends still travel to them.
> No lapdances (ironically)
> And shes very questionable if i have contact with opposite sex, even if its through work. Even thou theres no history of cheating.
> 
> They what i can think off the top of my head but shes not shy to voice her objections if she doesn't like something and i respect them. I just don't think she respects mine as like i say this is the 2nd time shes arranged to see strippers but the 1st time didn't happen


So, you're expected to respect her boundaries, but she doesn't have to respect yours?

I feel for couples on here with these issues. You have kids, and she knows you're not going anywhere. You can hope she listens and learns to respect you, but somewhere along the way, she has learned that it's okay to not respect your boundaries. If we're honest, you'll likely rug sweep this topic to avoid arguments. And I'm not judging you for that, but that is what you're left with, to keep the peace.

I think this is how many people become invisible over time, in their relationships. Maybe you need to reflect on if the cost of becoming invisible is worth it.


----------



## Uk1985

BeyondRepair007 said:


> That's a key point right there. You need clarity on this before you ever talk to her. "How much does this mean to you."
> 
> In a scenario where smoking is a boundary, her consequence for you could be "If you smoke, then I won't be in the same room with you until you brush your teeth, take a shower, and change your clothes".
> 
> But in your case, going to the show violates something emotional and causes lack of trust and a realization of her disregard for you.
> Taking a shower won't help that. Nothing will help that in the short term, and you'll have to find a way to deal with it.
> 
> Or
> 
> Have the conversation, but be confident in your position and state clear consequences. Then she will make the choice about what she wants for her future.
> 
> You can't be faulted for having a position and sticking by it.
> She might not agree with the position you are taking, but maybe you don't agree with her smoking or football boundary.
> That's the way relationships are conducted...communicate and decide if you're ok with what the other person requires in a partner.
> 
> So communicate _now_ and let her decide. Don't lead her on with silence.


Thanks for the post. I'll have a good think before I talk to her. I need to talk to her about it, soshe knows where i stand. Then I'll realise if she never fully understood what it meant to me or if she just doesnt care.


----------



## Uk1985

*Deidre* said:


> So, you're expected to respect her boundaries, but she doesn't have to respect yours?
> 
> I feel for couples on here with these issues. You have kids, and she knows you're not going anywhere. You can hope she listens and learns to respect you, but somewhere along the way, she has learned that it's okay to not respect your boundaries. If we're honest, you'll likely rug sweep this topic to avoid arguments. And I'm not judging you for that, but that is what you're left with, to keep the peace.
> 
> I think this is how many people become invisible over time, in their relationships. Maybe you need to reflect on if the cost of becoming invisible is worth it.


Pretty much how i feel, its a bit one sided in terms of boundaries. I'll have to talk rather than sweep it under the rug but need to be sure of the consequences if shes still adamant on going.

Suppose I'll only know if she does respect me or not after we talk but being invisible isn't worth it to stay in a relationship that makes you feel terrible as the resentment will build up and then I'll explode!


----------



## *Deidre*

Uk1985 said:


> Pretty much how i feel, its a bit one sided in terms of boundaries. I'll have to talk rather than sweep it under the rug but need to be sure of the consequences if shes still adamant on going.
> 
> Suppose I'll only know if she does respect me or not after we talk but being invisible isn't worth it to stay in a relationship that makes you feel terrible as the resentment will build up and then I'll explode!


I'd say for people that I've known in marriages with one-sided respect and from stories I've read on TAM, when one partner or the other, comes to realizing that they've become invisible, breaking up is the only way out. There's no going back to whatever you once thought ''normal'' was, once you've become invisible. But, in some of these stories, one spouse or the other didn't even realize they were invisible. They still fought with their spouses, trying to be heard about their boundaries. Eventually, you stop fighting when you realize you're not being taken seriously, I'd imagine.

It's a slow fade, and I'd suspect, some spouses just give up. To keep the peace, maybe. I don't know what consequences would get through in your situation, to be honest. If you threaten to leave, you'll not be able to see your kids as often as you do, now. If you say nothing, you run the risk of becoming invisible.

On another note, I can't imagine wanting to see other men strip so badly, that I'd fight with my husband over it, demand to be able to do it, and cause all this pain in my marriage. Let alone men dressed up in drag. lol I can think of a zillion other places I'd rather be, if I'm not with my husband, than _that_. 🙄

To each their own, eh?

All this to say, you're not crazy and you deserve to be heard and taken seriously in your relationship. Your equal partners, and I hope she chooses to listen to you.


----------



## Uk1985

*Deidre* said:


> I'd say for people that I've known in marriages with one-sided respect and from stories I've read on TAM, when one partner or the other, comes to realizing that they've become invisible, breaking up is the only way out. There's no going back to whatever you once thought ''normal'' was, once you've become invisible. But, in some of these stories, one spouse or the other didn't even realize they were invisible. They still fought with their spouses, trying to be heard about their boundaries. Eventually, you stop fighting when you realize you're not being taken seriously, I'd imagine.
> 
> It's a slow fade, and I'd suspect, some spouses just give up. To keep the peace, maybe. I don't know what consequences would get through in your situation, to be honest. If you threaten to leave, you'll not be able to see your kids as often as you do, now. If you say nothing, you run the risk of becoming invisible.
> 
> On another note, I can't imagine wanting to see other men strip so badly, that I'd fight with my husband over it, demand to be able to do it, and cause all this pain in my marriage. Let alone men dressed up in drag. lol I can think of a zillion other places I'd rather be, if I'm not with my husband, than _that_. 🙄
> 
> To each their own, eh?
> 
> All this to say, you're not crazy and you deserve to be heard and taken seriously in your relationship. Your equal partners, and I hope she chooses to listen to you.


If she doesn't agree and pushes to go maybe it is already too late and I am the invisible one in the relationship. Not sure yet and hopefully im just thinking of the worst outcome for me.

Leaving may be the only consequence to get through to her but with kids as young as ours it'll hurt them more in the long run. Although people say don't stay in a unhappy relationship just for the sake of the kids, so you never know what to do for the best.

Its just one drag queen with strippers supporting. If it was just a drag act it wouldn't be an issue. I think she just says yes to everything she gets invited to just to get out. Seems to forget i haven't had a BNO since July though! 

Maybe we just stay together but throw all boundaries out the window, that would be fun then wouldn't it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> If she doesn't agree and pushes to go maybe it is already too late and I am the invisible one in the relationship. Not sure yet and hopefully im just thinking of the worst outcome for me.
> 
> Leaving may be the only consequence to get through to her but with kids as young as ours it'll hurt them more in the long run. Although people say don't stay in a unhappy relationship just for the sake of the kids, so you never know what to do for the best.
> 
> Its just one drag queen with strippers supporting. If it was just a drag act it wouldn't be an issue. I think she just says yes to everything she gets invited to just to get out. Seems to forget i haven't had a BNO since July though!
> 
> Maybe we just stay together but throw all boundaries out the window, that would be fun then wouldn't it 🤷‍♂️


Yea that'd be great. /s

So she has GNO pretty often?
And you're 100% certain she's behaving herself (no cheating)?

I'm asking this because if you talk about your boundary and she pushes back and goes anyway, it may not be for the reason you think. But I guess that would likely have the same worst outcome... you'll either rugsweep this and continue being invisible or pull the plug and learn to co-parent apart. 

My suggestion is to consider your kids. Consider how you would want them to behave when they have an SO that disrespects them. Then model that for them and explain it to them in age-appropriate ways (when they are old enough).

Lead by example, including when it's hard. _Especially_ when it's hard.


----------



## Uk1985

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Yea that'd be great. /s
> 
> So she has GNO pretty often?
> And you're 100% certain she's behaving herself (no cheating)?
> 
> I'm asking this because if you talk about your boundary and she pushes back and goes anyway, it may not be for the reason you think. But I guess that would likely have the same worst outcome... you'll either rugsweep this and continue being invisible or pull the plug and learn to co-parent apart.
> 
> My suggestion is to consider your kids. Consider how you would want them to behave when they have an SO that disrespects them. Then model that for them and explain it to them in age-appropriate ways (when they are old enough).
> 
> Lead by example, including when it's hard. _Especially_ when it's hard.


She has them often but not always big nights out, sometimes local with female friends. They're no tell tale signs shes misbehaving and nothing to lead me to believe she is. So got to take it that shes still faithful.

I think if we talk about it this week she has a couple of weeks before the night out to decide if she respects me enough not to go and I have time to be sure of the consequences if she does go.

Good point about being an example for the kids, I wouldn't want them walked all over but wouldn't want them to be disrespectful to long term partner either.


----------



## gameopoly5

Uk1985 said:


> Very common to have children outside of marriage, not exactly no sex before marriage. The only difference between us as a couple and a married couple is a piece of paper to say we are married. Everything else is the same.
> 
> Im not bothered if she wants to go out, shes not exactly acting care free but shes free to go out whenever, its just going to strippers I have a problem with and think its unacceptable in a committed relationship.


It seems your girlfriend in the dominant partner in this relationship.
I had male friends who were forever complaining about how much their wives were disrespecting them but never actually acted upon it.
Eventually listening to those guys moaning about their wives wore me down and I began to distance myself from them, couldn`t be bothered listening to their domestic sob stories any more.
Regardless that you think what your girlfriend is doing or going to do is unacceptable in a committed relationship, you are weak and will still defend and won`t make any attempts to stop her, regardless.
So what is your point, what exactly do you want to hear? Otherwise this thread will continue going around in a circles.


----------



## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> It seems your girlfriend in the dominant partner in this relationship.
> I had male friends who were forever complaining about how much their wives were disrespecting them but never actually acted upon it.
> Eventually listening to those guys moaning about their wives wore me down and I began to distance myself from them, couldn`t be bothered listening to their domestic sob stories any more.
> Regardless that you think what your girlfriend is doing or going to do is unacceptable in a committed relationship, you are weak and will still defend and won`t make any attempts to stop her, regardless.
> So what is your point, what exactly do you want to hear? Otherwise this thread will continue going around in a circles.


You're probably right as i worry about what others think so don't try to enforce something if i think it will appear as controlling or petty to others. But this is an issue that really effects me.

I think being here i was looking for advice on whether to raise the issue or just stay silent. Obviously i need to raise the issue.

Secondly It would be what consequences would suit the issue if she is still adamant on going. Is it big enough to walk out on her and the kids? Does it appear petty and childish to walk out when she doesn't respect my boundaries or is it right that being disrespected would result in the end of a LTR. 
What other consequences are there except walking out that show that i won't accept being disrespected and walked all over?

What advice did you give your friends? Or did you just distance yourself and leave them to it?


----------



## bygone

You should not argue with your wife

If your limits are exceeded, your reaction should be clear, if you do not have sanctions, do not enter into arguments, otherwise your spouse or people around you will always cross your limits.

My comment about you considering staying for the kids is a bit rude, a lot of people here will be mad at me.

"I think it's an excuse for people who like to say they're good dads to hide that they're doormats."


----------



## Mr.Married

Are you a stay at home dad ?

What is the worse thing that you believe will happen at this drag show with your GF ?


----------



## Uk1985

bygone said:


> You should not argue with your wife
> 
> If your limits are exceeded, your reaction should be clear, if you do not have sanctions, do not enter into arguments, otherwise your spouse or people around you will always cross your limits.
> 
> My comment about you considering staying for the kids is a bit rude, a lot of people here will be mad at me.
> 
> "I think it's an excuse for people who like to say they're good dads to hide that they're doormats."


You may think its an excuse but i always think its better for kids to grow up in a home with both parents. And i won't see them ss much as i like as it will be just every other weekend and around work. Can be very unstable for them, especially as mine are so young.


----------



## Uk1985

Mr.Married said:


> Are you a stay at home dad ?
> 
> What is the worse thing that you believe will happen at this drag show with your GF ?


No i work at least 5 days a week, sometimes in on weekends. 

Its not so much the worse thing that will happen, its the fact she is going to see strippers when i thought i had been clear that i think its unacceptable when you're in a LTR. Basically its that she doesn't care what i think


----------



## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> Hi all, I'm new, been lurking for about a week looking at advice on old post.
> Im 37(m) with 33 GF, been together 6 years and have 2 young daughters 2yr old and 6 months.
> 
> My issue is my GF has been invited to a drag show by her mam. I mentioned that


YOU make some good points 
just the use of boundaries and what boundaries are and should be are a little gray and what happens if they a broken 


Laurentium said:


> That's really NOT what a boundary is. Boundaries are NOT where you try to set rules for what someone else can do. That never works.











Hen Night Entertainment - Adonis Cabaret


A saucy comedy cabaret show perfect for hen night entertainment - Book Adonis now for the ultimate hen party experience.




www.adoniscabaret.co.uk




after doing a search on goggle when it is a public show and they have a facebook account it would be best to post it so we know what we are talking about


----------



## bygone

Uk1985 said:


> You may think its an excuse but i always think its better for kids to grow up in a home with both parents. And i won't see them ss much as i like as it will be just every other weekend and around work. Can be very unstable for them, especially as mine are so young.



It's not hard to understand why your wife doesn't care about your words and your boundaries.

Living with a spouse determined to stay for the kids gives your wife a backdoor she'll always use.

children and you will not be happy or healthy

I will continue to see it as an excuse for two strangers to stay together and say "we are married for the kids."


----------



## gameopoly5

Uk1985 said:


> You're probably right as i worry about what others think so don't try to enforce something if i think it will appear as controlling or petty to others. But this is an issue that really effects me.
> 
> I think being here i was looking for advice on whether to raise the issue or just stay silent. Obviously i need to raise the issue.
> 
> Secondly It would be what consequences would suit the issue if she is still adamant on going. Is it big enough to walk out on her and the kids? Does it appear petty and childish to walk out when she doesn't respect my boundaries or is it right that being disrespected would result in the end of a LTR.
> What other consequences are there except walking out that show that i won't accept being disrespected and walked all over?
> 
> What advice did you give your friends? Or did you just distance yourself and leave them to it?


I had 1 male friend who continuously moaned about his wife.
He used to tell me his wife was often out with friends and she was particularly close to a male friend and they were frequently phoning each other. I used to listen and say nothing.
On one afternoon my friend and I were suppose to meet for a coffee and then he sent me an email saying, sorry can`t make it Honey Bunny as he described his wife wants him to take her shopping for a pair of shoes.
Eventually I began to perceive this guy as somewhat pathetic and I rarely communicate with him now as did our mutual friends.
You have not been clear on what type of event your wife will be attending. Is it a hen do or bachelorette party type of affair or is this just a stage show? How do you know there will be male strippers there?
Anyway, as for advice, it`s really up to you according to your boundary and tolerance levels.
Good luck.


----------



## Diceplayer

Uk1985 said:


> I think being here i was looking for advice on whether to raise the issue or just stay silent. Obviously i need to raise the issue.


You think? It's been a couple of days and you haven't done this yet despite the good advice you received here? What are you waiting for? What are you afraid of?


----------



## Uk1985

Diceplayer said:


> You think? It's been a couple of days and you haven't done this yet despite the good advice you received here? What are you waiting for? What are you afraid of?


Just about to come on to post that we did have the talk. Basically she said she didn't see the problem so she is still going and felt like she was being controlled. Said she wouldn't want to go through life thinking she was missing out on a night out or weekend away in case there was strippers there.

Said she respects me but because she hasn't got an issue with seeing strippers and she wants a night out with her mam, shes going.

So its the "deal with it" attitude that I expected.


----------



## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> I had 1 male friend who continuously moaned about his wife.
> He used to tell me his wife was often out with friends and she was particularly close to a male friend and they were frequently phoning each other. I used to listen and say nothing.
> On one afternoon my friend and I were suppose to meet for a coffee and then he sent me an email saying, sorry can`t make it Honey Bunny as he described his wife wants him to take her shopping for a pair of shoes.
> Eventually I began to perceive this guy as somewhat pathetic and I rarely communicate with him now as did our mutual friends.
> You have not been clear on what type of event your wife will be attending. Is it a hen do or bachelorette party type of affair or is this just a stage show? How do you know there will be male strippers there?
> Anyway, as for advice, it`s really up to you according to your boundary and tolerance levels.
> Good luck.


Its a night out not a hen party. Spoke to her now and said I was being controlling and she doesnt seen the issue so shes going. 
Said she won't touch and won't get up on stage but she'll be caught up in the moment no way she'll refuse.


----------



## Uk1985

And now after having the convo, previous issues were brought up and there is a frosty atmosphere in the house.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Change the locks and put her **** on the lawn.


----------



## gameopoly5

Uk1985 said:


> Its a night out not a hen party. Spoke to her now and said I was being controlling and she doesnt seen the issue so shes going.
> *Said she won't touch and won't get up on stage but she'll be caught up in the moment no way she'll refuse.*


I don`t like the sound of that. This seems to be more of a threat than a maybe.
Doesn`t appear your girlfriend is committing to having any loyalty to you, in other words what she is saying in-between the lines is, shall do what she likes because you have no say in the matter.
Well, she has now let the cat out of the bag and let you know the score with her..
If it were me I`d be seeing a lawyer obtaining legal advice because your gf is a cheater waiting to happen, that`s if she hasn`t already cheated.
Good luck with this one if you stay with her and what appears to be her toxic mother.


----------



## Diceplayer

Uk1985 said:


> And now after having the convo, previous issues were brought up and there is a frosty atmosphere in the house.


Of course, you spoke your mind and now you have to be punished for it. That's how they keep you in line, with passive aggressive BS. Then later on, they will cry and lament saying, "I don't understand why you don't talk to me." It's because they train you to not talk to them.


----------



## D0nnivain

A married person can go out with friends & not have strippers involved. In fact, I have never gone out with my GFs & had strippers involved. I don't know what kind of friends your wife has or why she thinks she's missing out. I don't hear you saying she can't go out. You are saying that you feel disrespected by her going out to this drag show where there will be strippers. That seems to leave a whole lot of other entertainment options open to her within your boundaries. 

Heck I have 4 GNOs planned for December. One will even be a weekend night away with my sorority sisters in Bethlehem PA, Christmastown USA. The only men involved may be the waiters, the bartenders, the store clerks when we go shopping & 1 photo with Santa Claus. Even then nobody sits on the old guy's lap. It's hardly racy stuff 

Why is your wife so hellbent on going to this show over your objection? If my husband took your stance, I can't say I would understand his reasons nor would I agree that watching a drag show or strippers is tantamount to cheating but because I love & respect him I would honor his wish & do something else. Her failure to consider your perspective is the real problem. 

When she says she doesn't know why you are so upset & that you should just "deal with it" she is saying that you don't matter. This frosty attitude of hers is BS She's gaslighting you. 

She's not a child so there aren't consequences other than you leaving the relationship. What are you going to do -- not talk to her? withhold sex? not make her car payments? She's not a teenager whose allowance you can take away or make her go to her room. 

Good luck. If you aren't willing to walk away it may be time for relationship counseling. If she won't go so you two can get to the heart of this power play (on both sides) then you know you have a real problem on your hands. I understand that you believe children are better off in a home with 2 parents but honestly what will they learn from this dynamic? You are not married but have kids. She disrespects you. You let her for the sake of the kids. How in there will they have a healthy relationship modeled for them?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Uk1985 said:


> Just about to come on to post that we did have the talk. Basically she said she didn't see the problem so she is still going and felt like she was being controlled. Said she wouldn't want to go through life thinking she was missing out on a night out or weekend away in case there was strippers there.
> 
> Said she respects me but because she hasn't got an issue with seeing strippers and she wants a night out with her mam, shes going.
> 
> So its the "deal with it" attitude that I expected.


She will continue to walk all over you until you change something.


----------



## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> I don`t like the sound of that. This seems to be more of a threat than a maybe.
> Doesn`t appear your girlfriend is committing to having any loyalty to you, in other words what she is saying in-between the lines is, shall do what she likes because you have no say in the matter.
> Well, she has now let the cat out of the bag and let you know the score with her..
> If it were me I`d be seeing a lawyer obtaining legal advice because your gf is a cheater waiting to happen, that`s if she hasn`t already cheated.
> Good luck with this one if you stay with her and what appears to be her toxic mother.


Her argument is always i dont trust her. I did have trust issues when we 1st moved in together, more so because she is flirty and outgoing. Now i do trust her but I'm beginning to realise she doesn't respect me or really care. I think when she is there she will get carried away and end up all over them, maybe even more so as she knows i would hate it. 
I think because we have the kids she thinks I won't walk away and believes because she hasn't got an issue with it she can do anything she wants.


----------



## Uk1985

BigDaddyNY said:


> She will continue to walk all over you until you change something.


I know im starting to realise that, yet im called the controlling one!


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Uk1985 said:


> I know im starting to realise that, yet im called the controlling one!


She is gaslighting you. Every couple should have boundaries and respect when something bothers the other.


----------



## Uk1985

D0nnivain said:


> A married person can go out with friends & not have strippers involved. In fact, I have never gone out with my GFs & had strippers involved. I don't know what kind of friends your wife has or why she thinks she's missing out. I don't hear you saying she can't go out. You are saying that you feel disrespected by her going out to this drag show where there will be strippers. That seems to leave a whole lot of other entertainment options open to her within your boundaries.
> 
> Heck I have 4 GNOs planned for December. One will even be a weekend night away with my sorority sisters in Bethlehem PA, Christmastown USA. The only men involved may be the waiters, the bartenders, the store clerks when we go shopping & 1 photo with Santa Claus. Even then nobody sits on the old guy's lap. It's hardly racy stuff
> 
> Why is your wife so hellbent on going to this show over your objection? If my husband took your stance, I can't say I would understand his reasons nor would I agree that watching a drag show or strippers is tantamount to cheating but because I love & respect him I would honor his wish & do something else. Her failure to consider your perspective is the real problem.
> 
> When she says she doesn't know why you are so upset & that you should just "deal with it" she is saying that you don't matter. This frosty attitude of hers is BS She's gaslighting you.
> 
> She's not a child so there aren't consequences other than you leaving the relationship. What are you going to do -- not talk to her? withhold sex? not make her car payments? She's not a teenager whose allowance you can take away or make her go to her room.
> 
> Good luck. If you aren't willing to walk away it may be time for relationship counseling. If she won't go so you two can get to the heart of this power play (on both sides) then you know you have a real problem on your hands. I understand that you believe children are better off in a home with 2 parents but honestly what will they learn from this dynamic? You are not married but have kids. She disrespects you. You let her for the sake of the kids. How in there will they have a healthy relationship modeled for them?


Shes adamant to go out because her mam has bought the tickets and she says she never gets out with her mam. I said we'll give her the money back and go out with her the next day but she just says she wants to go here. 

I said i was prepared to leave over it and she just said she had never heard anything like that before and thinks its stupid. She doesnt see the issue so she is going. Like i say she has a deal with it attitude. Its really starting to grind me down. It wasn't until reading these forums i realise how much of a doormat i am. 

I dont stop her from going out, she can enjoy herself, she deserves it for looking after the kids but I think she can take my feelings in to it as well when she is picking where to go. 

Only real consequence is leave and she either seems ok with that or doesn't think i will.


----------



## Uk1985

BootsAndJeans said:


> She is gaslighting you. Every couple should have boundaries and respect when something bothers the other.


I think she just knows shes got control and I cant do anything to stop it and won't do anything to punish it. 
I was hoping she would respect me enough to see my issue, guess not


----------



## gameopoly5

Uk1985 said:


> I think she just knows shes got control and I cant do anything to stop it and won't do anything to punish it.
> I was hoping she would respect me enough to see my issue, guess not


As I said previously, what exactly do you want to hear?
I`m done with this thread, waste of time.


----------



## Uk1985

gameopoly5 said:


> As I said previously, what exactly do you want to hear?
> I`m done with this thread, waste of time.


Ok bye


----------



## D0nnivain

Uk1985 said:


> Only real consequence is leave and she either seems ok with that or doesn't think i will.


She knows you won't go through with it. Leaving is an idle threat. Once you give an ultimatum like that & don't follow through she knows she can walk all over you like a doormat. He behavior will never improve.


----------



## Jimi007

The bottom line is you don't trust your wife...

That's why you don't like it....


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> I think she just knows shes got control and I cant do anything to stop it and won't do anything to punish it.
> I was hoping she would respect me enough to see my issue, guess not


Is she right?
She has control and you won't do anything about it?

If so then you're right where you belong.
If not then grab your man-parts and take charge of your life.
Your call.


----------



## Rob_1

Come on people, this dude won't move a finger. Same all, same all. Wife (girlfriend) will do as she pleases, regardless of his supposed "boundaries". NEXT.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Rob_1 said:


> Come on people, this dude won't move a finger. Same all, same all. Wife (girlfriend) will do as she pleases, regardless of his supposed "boundaries". NEXT.


Once in a blue moon someone snaps out of it. Will this be the one? 
Prolly not. I'm sure you're right.


----------



## Uk1985

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Is she right?
> She has control and you won't do anything about it?
> 
> If so then you're right where you belong.
> If not then grab your man-parts and take charge of your life.
> Your call.


Reading hold on to you N.U.T.s at the minute, maybe that will help. She basically does have control at the minute as she just does what she wants if she doesn't think its a problem. Now it looks like I need to change that or be the weak, pathetic doormat i seem to be getting called on here.


----------



## Uk1985

Rob_1 said:


> Come on people, this dude won't move a finger. Same all, same all. Wife (girlfriend) will do as she pleases, regardless of his supposed "boundaries". NEXT.


What would you do? Forget what the issue is, but if your issue/boundary had been disrespected and she was going to carry on with an activity you had an issue you with no matter how you felt, what would be your reaction? Bearing in mind been together 6 years with 2 kids at 2year old and 6 months old. 
I would like to hear other peoples response if they were in this situation.


----------



## Uk1985

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Once in a blue moon someone snaps out of it. Will this be the one?
> Prolly not. I'm sure you're right.


Im trying to be, but don't want to throw a relationship and family away either


----------



## leftfield

Uk1985 said:


> What would you do? Forget what the issue is, but if your issue/boundary had been disrespected and she was going to carry on with an activity you had an issue you with no matter how you felt, what would be your reaction? Bearing in mind been together 6 years with 2 kids at 2year old and 6 months old.
> I would like to hear other peoples response if they were in this situation.


This is why your boundaries don't have any meaning. If you can't figure out how you are going to respond to something than you have no boundary.

Your boundary needs to be about what you will tolerate and if you find something that is intolerable, how will you take care of yourself. (Notice how none of that has anything to do with a partner/spouse?)

P.S. If your wife calls you controlling. Simply agree that you are in control of yourself and what is best for you.


----------



## leftfield

Uk1985 said:


> Im trying to be, but don't want to throw a relationship and family away either


Your bondaries do not depend on your relationship or your family. They are your boundaries, nobody else's.


----------



## Rob_1

Uk1985 said:


> What would you do?


Forget what I would do, because, supposedly it is your boundary, not mine. But, I can tell you as a matter of fact that knowing myself as much as I do in respect to my boundaries, that if my wife were not in the same page as me, and chooses to not respect my boundaries, regardless of kids or not, I would either separate until boundaries are agreed, or if not, end the relationship because what's the point of being together if we are not in the same team. I'm not saying this as some internet keyboard warrior puffing up. I know my boundaries, and I always have gone by them, just as much as my spouse has her boundaries, and I accept them. 

You are supposed to be one unit in this respect, but obviously, she does not respect you. She knows she has you where she wants you, and you have allowed it. Your choice to enforce or not your so called "boundaries", because the way I see it, if you are not willing or are afraid to enforce them, then they not your boundaries, and what are you asking here? everything in life has consequences.


----------



## Rob_1

Uk1985 said:


> Im trying to be, but don't want to throw a relationship and family away either


That's the thing, sometimes, it is inevitable to end a relationship when your partner does not match you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand, that if you feel that you are being disrespected, not taking seriously, gaslighted, looked upon, or just taken for a doormat, then, if you have dignity and self respect, you immediately know that the relationship is unbalanced and that sometimes, the only way is out.

Why don't you say something like "girlfriend/partner, we have a problem here, and I'm not sure if we can solve it between ourselves. Why don't we seek professional advice to see if we can remain as a couple, because the way I see it, we are not anymore, Lets give it one more chance to see if we can remain together, what do you say?". If she calls you a domineering, asshole, then you have your answer, and proceed by either staying as a doormat, or go your separate way. Your kids are your kids. You're not losing them.


----------



## Uk1985

Thank you for the responses. I asked what others would do, as i wanted to know if people would stand their ground that such behaviour was unacceptable even if to the outside world (family and friends of the relationship) it is petty and pathetic.

The way i feel at the minute, totally rejected and disrespected i will be packing my bags if she goes on this night out. It might be a short term separation until we can agree or permanent if she insists on doing what she wants if she doesn't have an issue about it even if I do. Only time will tell how our relationship goes but i think everyone is right when they say I cant carry on with me being the doormat.

Thanks for the responses


----------



## Rob_1

Uk1985 said:


> but i think everyone is right when they say I cant carry on with me being the doormat.


It might sound like a cliché, but women in general, admire and respect a man that is strong in his convictions, and won't bend over because those convictions might be perceived as inconsequential to others. You do you, and let others worry about their perceptions.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> Im trying to be, but don't want to throw a relationship and family away either


 can I ask you a few questions to see if WE can find a way to advance here ,

do you look at porn ?
Does your wife look at porn ?
If you do are your open to looking at it together ?


----------



## Diana7

II 


Uk1985 said:


> She has always said she wanted to be engaged, to "belong" to someone. She has said before she doesnt want to get married or doesn't think she wants to be married because her mam and dad divorced and she doesn't want to go through that.
> I've always told her we will get engaged but want to be the right time and the right setting to propose not just do it anywhere for the sake of it.


I will never understand this weird idea that because so and so got divorced then we will so I dont want to get married. 
Plus an engagement is when you plan to marry. No point in being engaged if she won't marry.


----------



## Diana7

Uk1985 said:


> Just about to come on to post that we did have the talk. Basically she said she didn't see the problem so she is still going and felt like she was being controlled. Said she wouldn't want to go through life thinking she was missing out on a night out or weekend away in case there was strippers there.
> 
> Said she respects me but because she hasn't got an issue with seeing strippers and she wants a night out with her mam, shes going.
> 
> So its the "deal with it" attitude that I expected.


These are the sorts of things that should have been discussed and agreed on before getting serious and especially before having children. 
I wouldn't accept a guy I was with going to a strip club or whatever but neither would I go to one. 
She appears to have little respect for you. If Mr D said he was very unhappy that I was going somewhere there is no way I would go.


----------



## Uk1985

frenchpaddy said:


> can I ask you a few questions to see if WE can find a way to advance here ,
> 
> do you look at porn ?
> Does your wife look at porn ?
> If you do are your open to looking at it together ?


No neither of us watch porn, at least i don't think she does.
Together we are good, get on well, have a laugh together, enjoy each others company and have a good sex life. But when it comes to me saying im not comfortable with something and she doesn't think its a problem then she does what she likes.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> Thank you for the responses. I asked what others would do, as i wanted to know if people would stand their ground that such behaviour was unacceptable even if to the outside world (family and friends of the relationship) it is petty and pathetic.
> 
> The way i feel at the minute, totally rejected and disrespected i will be packing my bags if she goes on this night out. It might be a short term separation until we can agree or permanent if she insists on doing what she wants if she doesn't have an issue about it even if I do. Only time will tell how our relationship goes but i think everyone is right when they say I cant carry on with me being the doormat.
> 
> Thanks for the responses


I don't or does my wife have boundaries as such , 
because doth have the same outlook to life and the same up bringing same morals , we think alike on most things ,

I understand why she would think you are controlling and I understand why you feel as you do about her going ,

the thing is both have very different ideas about what this night is going to be like , 
if it was the type night you think it will be I would not like my wife going to this night and I could not imagine my MIL taking her to it 
I have seen a tv report of some of the new type stripper shows women go to and from what they showed makes the stripper shows men go to look like a boys camp 

with the strippers walking from table to table among all the women and many of the women lining up to suck off the strippers with no mind for STD and the strippers ejaculating every where women swallowing and licking it off them 

so called girls night out , 

on the other hand the show could be more along the type that the strippers are only on a stage and don't come into any contact with any of the girls and indeed you MIL + GF could be stuck to the middle or back of the room and see very little , but without been there you will never fully know what went on 
would that be a good idea to go along with the two women , but that too could be turned into her saying you are controlling her


----------



## frenchpaddy

Diana7 said:


> These are the sorts of things that should have been discussed and agreed on before getting serious and especially before having children.
> I wouldn't accept a guy I was with going to a strip club or whatever but neither would I go to one.
> She appears to have little respect for you. If Mr D said he was very unhappy that I was going somewhere there is no way I would go.


but you would not have 3 children outside marriage we can not make others do as we do , each to their own ,


----------



## Uk1985

Diana7 said:


> These are the sorts of things that should have been discussed and agreed on before getting serious and especially before having children.
> I wouldn't accept a guy I was with going to a strip club or whatever but neither would I go to one.
> She appears to have little respect for you. If Mr D said he was very unhappy that I was going somewhere there is no way I would go.


Your Comment about marriage, i don't know what to say but that is how she thinks of it. Can't see it happening now so she doesn't need to worry.

With regards to above, when we had the conversation she said she can't remember me mentioning it before that it was a no no,although I have, and she thought my issues with her going to strippers was to do with self confidence. I can't compete with them physically, if i could id probably be one. but confidence isn't the issue its the fact I dont agree with it and she goes on as if my views don't matter, thats the problem. As long as she doesn't have a problem with it no one else should is her thinking i guess.


----------



## Uk1985

frenchpaddy said:


> I don't or does my wife have boundaries as such ,
> because doth have the same outlook to life and the same up bringing same morals , we think alike on most things ,
> 
> I understand why she would think you are controlling and I understand why you feel as you do about her going ,
> 
> the thing is both have very different ideas about what this night is going to be like ,
> if it was the type night you think it will be I would not like my wife going to this night and I could not imagine my MIL taking her to it
> I have seen a tv report of some of the new type stripper shows women go to and from what they showed makes the stripper shows men go to look like a boys camp
> 
> with the strippers walking from table to table among all the women and many of the women lining up to suck off the strippers with no mind for STD and the strippers ejaculating every where women swallowing and licking it off them
> 
> so called girls night out ,
> 
> on the other hand the show could be more along the type that the strippers are only on a stage and don't come into any contact with any of the girls and indeed you MIL + GF could be stuck to the middle or back of the room and see very little , but without been there you will never fully know what went on
> would that be a good idea to go along with the two women , but that too could be turned into her saying you are controlling her


Yeah I've seen some videos of that ilk and i hope they are fake rather than what really happens because if it is there won't be a question of if i leave, it will be im off!!

Ive never had a problem with the MIL so i don't think she is trying to make trouble. I think the whole issue is my GF thinking she can do what she wants with no regards to me.


----------



## Diana7

Uk1985 said:


> Your Comment about marriage, i don't know what to say but that is how she thinks of it. Can't see it happening now so she doesn't need to worry.
> 
> With regards to above, when we had the conversation she said she can't remember me mentioning it before that it was a no no,although I have, and she thought my issues with her going to strippers was to do with self confidence. I can't compete with them physically, if i could id probably be one. but confidence isn't the issue its the fact I dont agree with it and she goes on as if my views don't matter, thats the problem. As long as she doesn't have a problem with it no one else should is her thinking i guess.


So is she ok about you doing the same? 
Sadly you have different standards and she doesnt seem to care that you are unhappy about something.


----------



## Uk1985

Diana7 said:


> So is she ok about you doing the same?
> Sadly you have different standards and she doesnt seem to care that you are unhappy about something.


I don't think she has any boundaries, its always after the fact she make an issue of something if she doesn't like it. I dont even know now if she expects me to respect them, i just do because I thought that was the way relationships would work.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Uk1985 said:


> I don't think she has any boundaries, its always after the fact she make an issue of something if she doesn't like it. I dont even know now if she expects me to respect them, i just do because I thought that was the way relationships would work.


That is how healthy relationships work.


----------



## MattMatt

Some female colleagues at a former workplace went to a male stripper show at a local nightclub. It was quite tame, no touching or anything like that.

The highpoint was when the compare came on stage, he was a drag act dressed as a nun in fishnet stockings and high heels. *They recognised him as a former colleague who had been fired for gross misconduct when he had embezzled money from the company.* So, that was fun! 🤣


----------



## D0nnivain

Uk1985 said:


> What would you do? * * * but if your issue/boundary had been disrespected and she was going to carry on with an activity you had an issue you with no matter how you felt, what would be your reaction?





Uk1985 said:


> The way i feel at the minute, totally rejected and disrespected i will be packing my bags if she goes on this night out.





Uk1985 said:


> But when it comes to me saying im not comfortable with something and she doesn't think its a problem then she does what she likes.


Boundaries are important but the timing of setting those boundaries, informing your SO about your preferences & enforcing the boundaries is also important. 

You are now trying to draw a line in the sand: if she goes to the show which may or may not have strippers you are saying you will walk. You absolutely can do that & if your boundary has been ignored perhaps you should 

But here's the thing if the issue whatever it may be is that critical to your happiness & commitment to the relationship you needed to make sure you were on the same page about this from the outset, not 2 kids later. Ultimatums are only effective if used. The minute you back down you are doormat. I would not throw away a relationship because my SO looked at another. Strip clubs every week, throwing all that money on tips, that is a dealbreaker DH & I discussed while we were dating before we even talked about marriage. I actually helped him plan his brother's bachelor party which included bar hopping to strip clubs in Vegas. That lasted about an hour because the beers were too expensive & the whole party preferred something more low key with cheaper drinks. 

There is a lot more going on here than just the one show. There is no power balance in your relationship. She does what she wants & you get upset. That is not healthy but it's about more than this particular show, although it may be the straw that broke your back.


----------



## Uk1985

D0nnivain said:


> Boundaries are important but the timing of setting those boundaries, informing your SO about your preferences & enforcing the boundaries is also important.
> 
> You are now trying to draw a line in the sand: if she goes to the show which may or may not have strippers you are saying you will walk. You absolutely can do that & if your boundary has been ignored perhaps you should
> 
> But here's the thing if the issue whatever it may be is that critical to your happiness & commitment to the relationship you needed to make sure you were on the same page about this from the outset, not 2 kids later. Ultimatums are only effective if used. The minute you back down you are doormat. I would not throw away a relationship because my SO looked at another. Strip clubs every week, throwing all that money on tips, that is a dealbreaker DH & I discussed while we were dating before we even talked about marriage. I actually helped him plan his brother's bachelor party which included bar hopping to strip clubs in Vegas. That lasted about an hour because the beers were too expensive & the whole party preferred something more low key with cheaper drinks.
> 
> There is a lot more going on here than just the one show. There is no power balance in your relationship. She does what she wants & you get upset. That is not healthy but it's about more than this particular show, although it may be the straw that broke your back.


We spoke about it when we 1st started dating, she says she can't remember talking about it and she says she would've thought I was being dramatic and not serious about the whole issue. I told her if(it was a when back then) we got engaged and she had a hen party if they were strippers there id call off the wedding, says she cant remember that either.

I don't dictate what she can and can't do but would like to be heard and respected when I say something is such a big issue for me. You're right about no power balance as she wants to be care free and do whatever she wants and me to still be here when she comes back and not have a problem with whatever she gets up to.


----------



## Jimi007

This thread does bring back a memory. Back in the early 80's I had a roommate that was a union Mason helper. Stacked cinder block by hand onto scaffolding . His arms and upper body were very well defined. He was also above average in looks and his package down. Below . He was also an excellent dancer. He worked on Friday and Saturdays with an all male review dance troop. A knock off of the Chippendales. After every show he would bed a married woman. ( they came on to him ) They would go crazy after alcohol was introduced 😜 
Many of these shows are not tame at all.
Ì can see why you would be concerned 
Sorry 4 the TJ


----------



## Uk1985

Jimi007 said:


> This thread does bring back a memory. Back in the early 80's I had a roommate that was a union Mason helper. Stacked cinder block by hand onto scaffolding . His arms and upper body were very well defined. He was also above average in looks and his package down. Below . He was also an excellent dancer. He worked on Friday and Saturdays with an all male review dance troop. A knock off of the Chippendales. After every show he would bed a married woman. ( they came on to him ) They would go crazy after alcohol was introduced 😜
> Many of these shows are not tame at all.
> Ì can see why you would be concerned
> Sorry 4 the TJ


Yeah I've heard a lot of stories of married/GF sleeping with the strippers. I am concerned but trust that she wouldn't sleep with one.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Jimi007 said:


> A knock off of the Chippendales. After every show he would bed a married woman. ( they came on to him ) They would go crazy after alcohol was introduced 😜
> Many of these shows are not tame at all.
> Ì can see why you would be concerned


while strip clubs for men go back a long time in history 
I can't think of when they started , but we all here know of the Chippendales , which was quite tame compared to some of the new knock offs ,

strip clubs where women behave abominably – howling, screaming, scratching, tearing and objectifying the hell out of the bloke paid to shake his body in their wild-eyed faces. In this crowd I would be embarrassed to be there , embarrassed to be watching a strip show and embarrassed for the stripper who smiled through it all. but in knowing my wife I know she would not be one of the ones making a fool of herself for the enjoyment of others , and engaging in sex acts with the stripper , 

I would not think it is hard for the stripper to find one (there is all ways one or even 10 in a room full of may be a thousand women , I have just goggled women go wild at strip show and what I saw was one stripper so I think very different to THE TYPE SHOW the OP is talking about the male stripper is fully stripped at this stage walking around the tables where he comes to one table the first girl takes his penis into her mouth he then passes to the next very fast where she takes over , where she ends up on her knees but what I say in the facies of most of the other women was " embarrassment and they seemed to be looking many clapping while hoping he stays with the girl on her knees, most near by moved back and even some walked away from the table , staying a safe distance , 

women behave in an uncivilised manner around male strippers because, unlike men, they lack years of civilising experience with sexually provocative performance.

The whole idea that women can ogle male bodies, and desire them, publicly, is a notion that’s only recently crawled out of the deep pool of lusty carnal history.
Thus, women don’t have a history of entertaining courtesans in private dining rooms with friends to fall back on, hence, crude behaviour. And there’s also the fact women are generally pretty darn excited that Carrie and the gals made it OK to do what we probably always wanted to do, even before the Bronte sisters wrote out the sex fantasies of the weaker sex in all their broody, animal glory.
So perhaps women need to develop the same sort of gentlemen’s agreement that prevails among well bred blokes which insists upon decorous treatment of all, including those who strip for a living.

Men strippers vs women strippers, men stripper audiences vs female stripper audiences - same/different/how? 

As I have never been inside a stripper bar or show for men I have the idea men in most part are better behaved , is it because men have been trained over centuries knowing that if they don't they will find themselves on the street very fast but this is all very new to women 

Would I stop my wife from going to this type night with other women ! No I would not 
I don't think you should impose boundaries on another person it is up to them to have their own boundaries their own limits and respect themselves and the others around them , 
Knowing my wife I know how she would react we have been to a nude beach by chance one half was for nude swimming the other was for none nude we stayed in our side and did our own thing , there was no one trying to peep at the nude side from a safe distance , 

I think in the long run it is better to have a healthy mind set about nude or near nude people but that is another debate for another day , we have been to saunas and to swing clubs and used to seen others nude ,


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Uk1985 said:


> Yeah I've heard a lot of stories of married/GF sleeping with the strippers. I am concerned but trust that she wouldn't sleep with one.


Here's the thing. I trust my wife to not cheat with a stripper, not grab his junk, etc. That doesn't change the fact that I really don't want her at a strip club. I would prefer she not hang around in a bar with men dancing around nude. Where maybe those nude men rub against her. Where environment and drinking collide and who knows what bad choices get made. Just not worth it or appropriate for a person in a committed relationship. You have every right to have this boundary even if you do trust your wife.


----------



## Uk1985

BigDaddyNY said:


> Here's the thing. I trust my wife to not cheat with a stripper, not grab his junk, etc. That doesn't change the fact that I really don't want her at a strip club. I would prefer she not hang around in a bar with men dancing around nude. Where maybe those nude men rub against her. Where environment and drinking collide and who knows what bad choices get made. Just not worth it or appropriate for a person in a committed relationship. You have every right to have this boundary even if you do trust your wife.


That is exactly my thinking and what i tried to get across to her. But she doesn't think it matters, its not an issue for her. She is more open about sex and nudity than me so she doesn't see the problem of going looking, except i think the environment and the atmosphere looking can quickly become unsatisfactory and a grab or rub is required especially when drink is involved. 

She says it wouldn't bother her if i went to a strip club but I know if i told her i had been she wouldn't be happy about, plus you get away with a lot more with male strippers than female strippers.


----------



## Kput

I get the impression that she is going to go and you will back down and suck it up and the next time she disregards your feelings you will do the same.


----------



## Quad73

Uk1985 said:


> That is exactly my thinking and what i tried to get across to her. But she doesn't think it matters, its not an issue for her. She is more open about sex and nudity than me so she doesn't see the problem of going looking, except i think the environment and the atmosphere looking can quickly become unsatisfactory and a grab or rub is required especially when drink is involved.
> 
> She says it wouldn't bother her if i went to a strip club but I know if i told her i had been she wouldn't be happy about, plus you get away with a lot more with male strippers than female strippers.


Bit of a double standard that she won't stand for you getting a lap dance... does she not see that she has rules that she expects you to abide by even if they're no big deal to you? She's asking you to respect her wishes, but does not see that RESPECT needing to be a two way dynamic...


----------



## Uk1985

Kput said:


> I get the impression that she is going to go and you will back down and suck it up and the next time she disregards your feelings you will do the same.


I've got no doubt she'll go after we talked yesterday, she doesn't think its a problem. Think now though this issue and reading these forums has made me realise how much she doesn't care about my feelings if it going to stop her having 'Fun'. maybe it is time to go


----------



## Kput

Tough with kids but sometimes necessary.

Don't be afraid to give her an ultimatum.


----------



## Uk1985

Quad73 said:


> Bit of a double standard that she won't stand for you getting a lap dance... does she not see that she has rules that she expects you to abide by even if they're no big deal to you? She's asking you to respect her wishes, but does not see that RESPECT needing to be a two way dynamic...


she said it wouldn't bother her, but every time she sees me talking to some other lass, she gets very jealous and questions everything so I know if went to strippers and had a lap dance she'd hate it. maybe not as much as me but she definitely would.

When I mention her boundaries she now says she didn't mean them or was being over dramatic, i.e. she would leave if I started smoking again. Just says what she wants to justify her actions.


----------



## Uk1985

Kput said:


> Tough with kids but sometimes necessary.
> 
> Don't be afraid to give her an ultimatum.


pretty much did but don't think she believes I'll do anything


----------



## D0nnivain

Uk1985 said:


> Yeah I've heard a lot of stories of married/GF sleeping with the strippers. I am concerned but trust that she wouldn't sleep with one.


I am a woman. In college the bar I tended had male strippers on Sunday nights. The strippers were all gay. Not one of them would have touched a member of the crowd with somebody else's johnson. The only straight men in the place were the male bartenders. To a man, every one of the bartenders thought the female customers were gross & unattractive based on the vulgar ways they behaved with the strippers. 

At least in that bar there was no way a customer was leaving that bar with a man for sex.


----------



## Kput

Because you probably won't.


----------



## Uk1985

Kput said:


> Because you probably won't.


thats the decision I have to make


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Uk1985 said:


> pretty much did but don't think she believes I'll do anything


Are your parents or other family nearby? What if you told her you were packing up the kids and going to your parents for a few days to evaluate your relationship while she is having fun watching swinging Richards with her mom?

Have you asked her why she doesn't consider your feelings to be valid? How do you think she would react to reading the comments in this thread?


----------



## Quad73

Uk1985 said:


> she said it wouldn't bother her, but every time she sees me talking to some other lass, she gets very jealous and questions everything so I know if went to strippers and had a lap dance she'd hate it. maybe not as much as me but she definitely would.
> 
> When I mention her boundaries she now says she didn't mean them or was being over dramatic, i.e. she would leave if I started smoking again. Just says what she wants to justify her actions.


I'm not the type to play games, I hate 'em, so take that into account when I say, I'd be tempted to go to a strip club with the guys before she goes on her strip club get together with her mom. She needs to see her own hypocrisy in the full light of day and make a decision re her level of respect for you. I know others here will disagree with this tactic, so would I normally.


----------



## ButtPunch

Quad73 said:


> I'm not the type to play games, I hate 'em, so take that into account when I say, I'd be tempted to go to a strip club with the guys before she goes on her strip club get together with her mom. She needs to see her own hypocrisy in the full light of day and make a decision re her level of respect for you. I know others here will disagree with this tactic, so would I normally.


How often do you go out with your guy friends to places where the opposite sex is frequented? I'm guessing not near as much as your gf does.

You are now backed into a corner where your only response is to leave. Your gf has very little respect for you and talking to her about it isn't going to help.

She needs to see actions from you and that starts by holding firm to your boundaries. Women respect men who follow thru with what they say. 

You also need to be prepared for her to be ok with it too. She has already demonstrated a lack of emotional attachment to you so be prepared for her to let you go and play the victim.

Your only other option is to accept your role as doormat and she will push your boundaries further and further making your life a living hell.


----------



## Uk1985

BigDaddyNY said:


> Are your parents or other family nearby? What if you told her you were packing up the kids and going to your parents for a few days to evaluate your relationship while she is having fun watching swinging Richards with her mom?
> 
> Have you asked her why she doesn't consider your feelings to be valid? How do you think she would react to reading the comments in this thread?


That would cause mayhem if I said I was taking the kids with me as well. I work full time as well so wouldn't be able to look after them, she is off on maternity at the minute. 

She just says she doesn't see the issue and thinks it is unheard of the have a problem with it and I'm being controlling by stopping her going. She always brings up my mistakes from the past, but once she made her feelings known I have never disrespected her or made the same mistake twice. 
i think she would probably disagree with nearly every comment on here


----------



## Uk1985

Quad73 said:


> I'm not the type to play games, I hate 'em, so take that into account when I say, I'd be tempted to go to a strip club with the guys before she goes on her strip club get together with her mom. She needs to see her own hypocrisy in the full light of day and make a decision re her level of respect for you. I know others here will disagree with this tactic, so would I normally.


then it'll be a tit for tat that I've been she can go. And she knows I hate it so she will go more often.


----------



## Uk1985

ButtPunch said:


> How often do you go out with your guy friends to places where the opposite sex is frequented? I'm guessing not near as much as your gf does.
> 
> You are now backed into a corner where your only response is to leave. Your gf has very little respect for you and talking to her about it isn't going to help.
> 
> She needs to see actions from you and that starts by holding firm to your boundaries. Women respect men who follow thru with what they say.
> 
> You also need to be prepared for her to be ok with it too. She has already demonstrated a lack of emotional attachment to you so be prepared for her to let you go and play the victim.
> 
> Your only other option is to accept your role as doormat and she will push your boundaries further and further making your life a living hell.


No where near as much as her. I'm usually working and struggle to get people to go out with. Or I think to give her a break with the kids has she has them all week when I am at work.

Yeah that is the only option I can see I don't know if she will be o.k. with me leaving but out of stubbornness she will not pursue me to come back as she'll believe she hasn't done anything wrong and I'm being over dramatic. 
It is a drastic step to leave but like you say there is no other option. Unless I stay, learn to be emotionally unattached as well, ignore any boundaries she has and we live in anarchy.


----------



## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> It is a drastic step to leave but like you say there is no other option.


Maybe you can use it as leverage to get her into counselling?


----------



## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> Maybe you can use it as leverage to get her into counselling?


Maybe something to look in to


----------



## ButtPunch

Uk1985 said:


> No where near as much as her. I'm usually working and struggle to get people to go out with. Or I think to give her a break with the kids has she has them all week when I am at work.
> 
> Yeah that is the only option I can see I don't know if she will be o.k. with me leaving but out of stubbornness she will not pursue me to come back as she'll believe she hasn't done anything wrong and I'm being over dramatic.
> It is a drastic step to leave but like you say there is no other option. Unless I stay, learn to be emotionally unattached as well, ignore any boundaries she has and we live in anarchy.


I think there is a lot of room for you to grow in the self-improvement area on your part.

I would maybe start seeing a counselor or at a minimum begin to read some male self help books.

No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover
Hold Onto Your NUTS by Wayne Levine
Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay 

These three are where id start


----------



## SunCMars

Uk1985 said:


> Its a night out not a hen party. Spoke to her now and said I was being controlling and she doesnt seen the issue so shes going.
> Said she won't touch and won't get up on stage but she'll be caught up in the moment no way she'll refuse.


I would suspect, at some point, that the male strippers will come out into the audience (?)
And, you will never know.

I agree, if other females touch the strange, wagging wangs, (when they are invited onstage, or [when and if], the naked men come forward and stand before each lady) she too, will give that appendage a tug..

Hell, you know her randy Mum, certainly will.

Seeing others do the touching may not inspire her to do the same, but if it comes to these penises being in her face, or at hand, she will not want to be seen the party-pooper.

I see this as a class thing.
Men and women who have class, _do not attend _such activities.

Your wife and her mum, have no class.

You do.

It's time to bail on her.


----------



## Uk1985

ButtPunch said:


> I think there is a lot of room for you to grow in the self-improvement area on your part.
> 
> I would maybe start seeing a counselor or at a minimum begin to read some male self help books.
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover
> Hold Onto Your NUTS by Wayne Levine
> Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay
> 
> These three are where id start


Yeah I've started reading hold on to your nuts after seeing it mentioned on here. See if it helps


----------



## Uk1985

SunCMars said:


> I would suspect, at some point, that the male strippers will come out into the audience (?)
> And, you will never know.
> 
> I agree, if other females touch the strange, wagging wangs, (when they are invited onstage, or [when and if], the naked men come forward and stand before each lady) she too, will give that appendage a tug..
> 
> Hell, you know her randy Mum, certainly will.
> 
> Seeing others do the touching may not inspire her to do the same, but if it comes to these penises being in her face, or at hand, she will not want to be seen the party-pooper.
> 
> I see this as a class thing.
> Men and women who have class, _do not attend _such activities.
> 
> Your wife and her mum, have no class.
> 
> You do.
> 
> It's time to bail on her.


Exactly, no one shes not going to touch if everyone else does and I don't think shes going to refuse to go on stage as she will be deemed a party pooper then! She won't be able to contain herself plus shes not afraid to become centre of attention and try to make people laugh by doing something crazy.


----------



## SunCMars

BigDaddyNY said:


> Are your parents or other family nearby? What if you told her *you were packing up the kids and going to your parents for a few days *to evaluate your relationship while she is having fun watching swinging Richards with her mom?
> 
> Have you asked her why she doesn't consider your feelings to be valid? How do you think she would react to reading the comments in this thread?


I like this idea and action. 

When she goes.....and returns, do not be home.
And, ghost her *for a day.*

I would add.....*do not tell her,* *in advance.*
Let her realize those consequences, after the fact.
After, she gaped at those semi-flaccid, flip-floppers.

Oh, my, the look on her face, when she finds you and the young-ins, are off and away.

When she raises the predicted stink, just tell her this is what consequences look like!

This is the perfect set-up for putting her in the place, you choose.

She will now look at you in a different light.
Not necessarily (or likely) a good light, but who cares?


----------



## Uk1985

SunCMars said:


> I like this idea and action.
> 
> When she goes.....and returns, do not be home.
> And, ghost her *for a day.*
> 
> I would add.....*do not tell her,* *in advance.*
> Let her realize those consequences, after the fact.
> After, she gaped at those semi-flaccid, flip-floppers.
> 
> Oh, my, the look on her face, when she finds you and the young-ins, are off and away.
> 
> When she raises the predicted stink, just tell her this is what consequences look like!
> 
> This is the perfect set-up for putting her in the place, you choose.
> 
> She will now look at you in a different light.
> Not necessarily (or likely) a good light, but who cares?


She would probably enjoy the peace and quiet with no one in the house 😂

Don't want to start using the kids to get back at her. Its betweeen me and her and trying to establish the difference between respect and controlling. She thinks im being controlling, i think shes being disrespectful. Need to find that middle ground if we are going to save the relationship


----------



## ButtPunch

Uk1985 said:


> She would probably enjoy the peace and quiet with no one in the house 😂
> 
> Don't want to start using the kids to get back at her. Its between me and her and trying to establish the difference between respect and controlling. She thinks im being controlling, i think shes being disrespectful. Need to find that middle ground if we are going to save the relationship


You are correct in this line of thinking. She will see you going somewhere as a manipulation tactic. You have stated where you stand now you must be a man and live by it. You must be willing to lose this relationship in order to save it. You have clearly stated what the consequences are if she breaks your boundary. You must follow thru with action. Talk Less and Do More!


----------



## Quad73

Uk1985 said:


> She would probably enjoy the peace and quiet with no one in the house
> 
> Don't want to start using the kids to get back at her. Its betweeen me and her and trying to establish the difference between respect and controlling. She thinks im being controlling, i think shes being disrespectful. Need to find that middle ground if we are going to save the relationship


From everything you've said about her, it sounds to me like she's not LTR material.

She's emotionally careless, likes to live the single life, do as she pleases and gets her kicks out of having control over others. 

I got a taste of all that from my ex-finance and decided to end it. I could not imagine living in a somewhat manipulative dictatorship for the rest of my life. Unfortunately I dragged out the process by attempting reconciliation, which left me pretty much broken. She was a wonderful person, but simply did not know how to treat me any differently that any other people in her life. I was not going to 'get in her way'. The thing is, I love independent women. It was not independence so much as a lack of regard for our relationship. I get that sense from how you describe your fiance as well. I'm likely biased though.


----------



## Uk1985

ButtPunch said:


> You are correct in this line of thinking. She will see you going somewhere as a manipulation tactic. You have stated where you stand now you must be a man and live by it. You must be willing to lose this relationship in order to save it. You have clearly stated what the consequences are if she breaks your boundary. You must follow thru with action. Talk Less and Do More!


Bit confused here do you mean going somewhere with the kids as being manipulative or threatening to leave/leaving the relationship as manipulative?


----------



## Uk1985

Quad73 said:


> From everything you've said about her, it sounds to me like she's not LTR material.
> 
> She's emotionally careless, likes to live the single life, do as she pleases and gets her kicks out of having control over others.
> 
> I got a taste of all that from my ex-finance and decided to end it. I could not imagine living in a somewhat manipulative dictatorship for the rest of my life. Unfortunately I dragged out the process by attempting reconciliation, which left me pretty much broken. She was a wonderful person, but simply did not know how to treat me any differently that any other people in her life. I was not going to 'get in her way'. The thing is, I love independent women. It was not independence so much as a lack of regard for our relationship. I get that sense from how you describe your fiance as well. I'm likely biased though.


She usually goes out of her way to help people and can be a people pleaser but it seems like when it comes to us she just sees it as controlling and doesn't seem to want to listen to any reasoning if it spoils her fun. Guess she wants the best of both worlds, single and LTR.


----------



## ButtPunch

Uk1985 said:


> Bit confused here do you mean going somewhere with the kids as being manipulative or threatening to leave/leaving the relationship as manipulative?


Yes taking the kids somewhere would be manipulative in my opinion. Of course, any type of threat would be the definition of manipulative. Stating your boundary and sticking to it however is the trait of a strong man. Women like strong men.


----------



## ButtPunch

Uk1985 said:


> She usually goes out of her way to help people and can be a people pleaser but it seems like when it comes to us she just sees it as controlling and doesn't seem to want to listen to any reasoning if it spoils her fun. Guess she wants the best of both worlds, single and LTR.


She gets to live how she wants too. Plenty of women like her. However, she isn't compatible for you or for me either as I wouldn't tolerate that mess for very long either. She needs a man who will sit at home and watch the kids while she goes and has fun. I'm fairly certain she wouldn't tolerate the situation if the roles were reversed and you liked to go hang with boys constantly.


----------



## Young at Heart

Uk1985 said:


> [
> 
> 
> Thats the issue im having with the consequences as it is something i tgink is a big deal and matters to me even if others dont. But is it big enough to walk away from? What other consequences are they?
> 
> It isn't a trust issue, its just what i considered acceptable in a relationship and getting dry humped by a stripper isn't acceptable to me.


I am 73, been married 51 years. This is not big enough to destroy a relationship with the mother of your children. You may not like it, but learn to pick your battles.

Even if they are male strippers .....they are probably drag queens dressed as strippers trying to arouse the straight male or gay members of the audience not the female audience members. Or If they are men dressed as male strippers they are probably to add humor to the show now sexual arousal of the female audience.

Oh and by the way, get around to marrying the mother of your children, it is much more the right thing to do than controlling the shows your girlfriend wants to see.

Good Luck to you.


----------



## Uk1985

ButtPunch said:


> She gets to live how she wants too. Plenty of women like her. However, she isn't compatible for you or for me either as I wouldn't tolerate that mess for very long either. She needs a man who will sit at home and watch the kids while she goes and has fun. I'm fairly certain she wouldn't tolerate the situation if the roles were reversed and you liked to go hang with boys constantly.


This is now the issue that she doesn't care how i feel about it she just wants to do as she pleases. There isn't even a compromise on her part to try and see it how I do and have some respect for me. She wouldn't like it if I was out all the time or just done as i pleased.


----------



## Uk1985

Young at Heart said:


> I am 73, been married 51 years. This is not big enough to destroy a relationship with the mother of your children. You may not like it, but learn to pick your battles.
> 
> Even if they are male strippers .....they are probably drag queens dressed as strippers trying to arouse the straight male or gay members of the audience not the female audience members. Or If they are men dressed as male strippers they are probably to add humor to the show now sexual arousal of the female audience.
> 
> Oh and by the way, get around to marrying the mother of your children, it is much more the right thing to do than controlling the shows your girlfriend wants to see.
> 
> Good Luck to you.


I think we are past the issue of her going to the strippers as a reason to separate, its now become the issue she doesn't care how i feel. If she doesn't see an issue with it shes going to do it regardless. It's about having mutual respect in a relationship and me raising this topic it shows theres no respect for me on her part. 

It doesn't matter why they are there, its the fact of going to see them that i disagree with when in a LTR. Something she can't see, doesn't want to see or doesn't care.

As far as marriage, that is the last thing on my mind until we can sort this out and she shows that she can respect me. Why marry someone who has no respect for you?


----------



## Jimi007

Young at Heart said:


> I am 73, been married 51 years. This is not big enough to destroy a relationship with the mother of your children. You may not like it, but learn to pick your battles.
> 
> Even if they are male strippers .....they are probably drag queens dressed as strippers trying to arouse the straight male or gay members of the audience not the female audience members. Or If they are men dressed as male strippers they are probably to add humor to the show now sexual arousal of the female audience.
> 
> Oh and by the way, get around to marrying the mother of your children, it is much more the right thing to do than controlling the shows your girlfriend wants to see.
> 
> Good Luck to you.


I said the same thing awhile back...Leaving seems a bit over the top. He says he trusts his wife , but he doesn't . I get the boundary thing


----------



## Uk1985

Jimi007 said:


> I said the same thing awhile back...Leaving seems a bit over the top. He says he trusts his wife , but he doesn't . I get the boundary thing


Maybe it is a bit OTT to throw a relationship and family away over going to strippers but if I don't do anything this time, what happens next time she does what she wants with no regard to how i feel about it? Is it worth being in a relationship like that?


----------



## Jimi007

Uk1985 said:


> Maybe it is a bit OTT to throw a relationship and family away over going to strippers but if I don't do anything this time, what happens next time she does what she wants with no regard to how i feel about it? Is it worth being in a relationship like that?


Only YOU can answer that question. 
Best of luck


----------



## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> I think we are past the issue of her going to the strippers as a reason to separate, its now become the issue she doesn't care how i feel. If she doesn't see an issue with it shes going to do it regardless. It's about having mutual respect in a relationship


This is correct. 

Are you able to see what *her *point of view is?

(I am STILL suspicious that her mother is a factor in this. Do you know anything about her mother's marriage?)


----------



## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> This is correct.
> 
> Are you able to see what *her *point of view is?
> 
> (I am STILL suspicious that her mother is a factor in this. Do you know anything about her mother's marriage?)


I guess I can as she is very open in her nature so she doesn't think its an issue. Has a female friend who is a stripper so knows what goes on there and doesn't have an issue with me going to one but would be upset if I got a lapdance. Bit hypocritical to me as men can't touch but woman can. She has said she won't touch or get up on stage for a dance but i think she'll get caught up in the moment and won't say no, if thats me not having trust in her to keep her word then so be it.

I don't know much about her mams marriage, except it wasn't a very good one. Her dad always worked and didn't care for the kids, it was all left to her mam. When they split up they think her dad was having an affair but not sure if it was proven but he got with someone else quick.
Her mam has a care free open nature attitude as well so she'll believe theres nothing wrong with it and im being an ahole!


----------



## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> I guess I can as she is very open in her nature so she doesn't think its an issue. Has a female friend who is a stripper so knows what goes on there and doesn't have an issue with me going to one but would be upset if I got a lapdance. Bit hypocritical to me as men can't touch but woman can. She has said she won't touch or get up on stage for a dance but i think she'll get caught up in the moment and won't say no, if thats me not having trust in her to keep her word then so be it.


No, you've gone back to the stripper issue! 
I meant, what's her point of view about the real issue, of does it matter to her that you feel bad about whatever it might be? You said that was the real issue, and I agree -- what would she say about it?


----------



## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> I don't know much about her mams marriage, except it wasn't a very good one. Her dad always worked and didn't care for the kids, it was all left to her mam. When they split up they think her dad was having an affair but not sure if it was proven but he got with someone else quick.


So she may have inherited an idea like "don't make yourself completely dependent on a man".


----------



## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> No, you've gone back to the stripper issue!
> I meant, what's her point of view about the real issue, of does it matter to her that you feel bad about whatever it might be? You said that was the real issue, and I agree -- what would she say about it?


Sorry I thought you meant her take on the stripper issue.

She says that she does respect me and that i need to trust her and i am trying to control her. She said if she doesn't think something is not an issue shes not going to not do it in case i have a problem. Her example was doesn't want to miss out on GNO and future hen parties in case there is going to be strippers there (this was during the conversation this week so that is why strippers was brought back up). 
Doesn't see it as disrespect that she won't agree not to do something because i have a problem, its my problem deal with it type attitude.


----------



## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> So she may have inherited an idea like "don't make yourself completely dependent on a man".


Maybe so, like ive said previously i think she wants the best of both worlds. In a relationship but act like shes single and do as she pleases with no one questioning her.


----------



## Quad73

Uk1985 said:


> She usually goes out of her way to help people and can be a people pleaser but it seems like when it comes to us she just sees it as controlling and doesn't seem to want to listen to any reasoning if it spoils her fun. Guess she wants the best of both worlds, single and LTR.


People do overuse "narcissistic tendency" but from what I've read here on TAM, this is one of the characteristics of a "covert narcissist". i. e. everyone outside their home life sees them as a generous person, always ready to jump in, make special considerations, go out of their way for them. The family gets second class consideration, is taken for granted or ignored. Not saying she is one, just an insight.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Uk1985,

You need to determine what you will accept as acceptable behaviors in your spouse. She sounds like she is a cake-eater and the "you are controlling me" response is telling. She sounds like a covert narcissist, with little regard for your feelings.

Now, as a married man of 38+ years: Going to see strippers is an absolute no-go for either my wife and I. Secondly, girls nights outs and boys nights out, clubbing is also a no-go. 

It may be that you and her are fundamentally incompatible as marital partners. 

As others have said, ONLY you can determine what is acceptable or unacceptable for you as a husband and father. Only YOU, must determine what battle you want to fight. 

I can only tell you how I think. My wife and I have defined moral values on what is and is not acceptable behaviors.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> I think we are past the issue of her going to the strippers as a reason to separate, its now become the issue she doesn't care how i feel. If she doesn't see an issue with it shes going to do it regardless. It's about having mutual respect in a relationship and me raising this topic it shows theres no respect for me on her part.
> 
> It doesn't matter why they are there, its the fact of going to see them that i disagree with when in a LTR. Something she can't see, doesn't want to see or doesn't care.
> 
> As far as marriage, that is the last thing on my mind until we can sort this out and she shows that she can respect me. Why marry someone who has no respect for you?





Uk1985 said:


> Sorry I thought you meant her take on the stripper issue.
> 
> She says that she does respect me and that i need to trust her and i am trying to control her. She said if she doesn't think something is not an issue shes not going to not do it in case i have a problem. Her example was doesn't want to miss out on GNO and future hen parties in case there is going to be strippers there (this was during the conversation this week so that is why strippers was brought back up).
> Doesn't see it as disrespect that she won't agree not to do something because i have a problem, its my problem deal with it type attitude.


I can easy say you have been the most level headed of husbands that has come here with this type issue as many would be out the door over this 
I think there is a lot been said in this "She says that she does respect me and that i need to trust her and i am trying to control her" she has reason as so do you but both are staying on your high ground , 
Now I have seen many couples brake marriages over this type issue or less your doing well just need to find the way to lesson to what she is saying and her what your saying


----------



## In Absentia

Why do you have a problem with your partner seeing a couple of penises in a show?


----------



## Young at Heart

Uk1985 said:


> Maybe it is a bit OTT to throw a relationship and family away over going to strippers but if I don't do anything this time, what happens next time she does what she wants with no regard to how i feel about it? Is it worth being in a relationship like that?


As I said, you need to learn to pick which battles are worth fighting over. Fighting on principal will get you nowhere.


----------



## Uk1985

Young at Heart said:


> As I said, you need to learn to pick which battles are worth fighting over. Fighting on principal will get you nowhere.


Maybe need to pick my battles but no I've made an issue out of it and its now showing she has no respect i think the battle has become much bigger. If i stay im just the doormat she can walk all over. If i leave I'll be walking out on my family and 2 young kids and I'll be the ahole.


----------



## Uk1985

frenchpaddy said:


> I can easy say you have been the most level headed of husbands that has come here with this type issue as many would be out the door over this
> I think there is a lot been said in this "She says that she does respect me and that i need to trust her and i am trying to control her" she has reason as so do you but both are staying on your high ground ,
> Now I have seen many couples brake marriages over this type issue or less your doing well just need to find the way to lesson to what she is saying and her what your saying


I want to at least come to common ground on it all. I would rather stay together as a family but im not sure if it is possible unless she changes her attitude towards me or i change my attitude overall and know now no boundaries exists and do as I please, doesn't matter how it will effect her.


----------



## Uk1985

BootsAndJeans said:


> Uk1985,
> 
> You need to determine what you will accept as acceptable behaviors in your spouse. She sounds like she is a cake-eater and the "you are controlling me" response is telling. She sounds like a covert narcissist, with little regard for your feelings.
> 
> Now, as a married man of 38+ years: Going to see strippers is an absolute no-go for either my wife and I. Secondly, girls nights outs and boys nights out, clubbing is also a no-go.
> 
> It may be that you and her are fundamentally incompatible as marital partners.
> 
> As others have said, ONLY you can determine what is acceptable or unacceptable for you as a husband and father. Only YOU, must determine what battle you want to fight.
> 
> I can only tell you how I think. My wife and I have defined moral values on what is and is not acceptable behaviors.


I think she may have some of the tendency when I've looked it up, but not sure if she is one totally. 
Surely its not much to want respect and compromise in a relationship. Sounds like you have it. 

Maybe you're right we are not compatible, maybe now after all this time it is the realisation we are not. Suppose i have to do what is best for me but i also want what is best for the kids and not miss out on seeing them everyday. 

No kids involved i would've been gone but it makes the decision even hard and not one to do on a whim to break up a family.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Uk1985 said:


> I think she may have some of the tendency when I've looked it up, but not sure if she is one totally.
> Surely its not much to want respect and compromise in a relationship. Sounds like you have it.
> 
> Maybe you're right we are not compatible, maybe now after all this time it is the realisation we are not. Suppose i have to do what is best for me but i also want what is best for the kids and not miss out on seeing them everyday.
> 
> No kids involved i would've been gone but it makes the decision even hard and not one to do on a whim to break up a family.


Look fella, she is just walking on you, with zero consequences. What I am about to say next, is based upon my own moral position. 

A wife/mother has no business running around like a single 20 something. I 100% agree with your issue of strippers, etc. 

I will illustrate my next point with how I raised my children. I taught my children that there are two types of discipline. External, given by parents, police, employer, etc. This is usually punative and creates resentment. The other type and better IMO, is self-discipline. It appears your lady has little self-discipline or empathy towards you and your joint children. Self-discipline comes from inside, from knowing limitations and being moral and ethical. 

Your lady appears to be living her life without consequences. I find it bizarre for her to be encouraged to do this by her mother. I could not imagine going to a strip bar with my dad. What is her mother's relationship history? 

There is some truth in that a woman will be like her mother. Ultimately, you need to protect yourself and your children. If my wife, even now after 38 years, dud what yours is doing....she would find herself single and not supported by me, my salary or the security I can provide.


----------



## leftfield

Uk1985 said:


> She says that she does respect me and that i need to trust her and i am trying to control her. She said if she doesn't think something is not an issue shes not going to not do it in case i have a problem. Her example was doesn't want to miss out on GNO and future hen parties in case there is going to be strippers there (this was during the conversation this week so that is why strippers was brought back up).
> *Doesn't see it as disrespect that she won't agree not to do something because i have a problem, its my problem deal with it type attitude.*


You need to make sure that she understand that if it is your problem, that you will deal with it. Then you need to go deal with it. If it was me, I would make sure my wife knows that she should not bother coming back, because her behavior is the problem and will be dealt with. Oh wait, my wife already know that so this would not be a problem for us.


----------



## Uk1985

BootsAndJeans said:


> Look fella, she is just walking on you, with zero consequences. What I am about to say next, is based upon my own moral position.
> 
> A wife/mother has no business running around like a single 20 something. I 100% agree with your issue of strippers, etc.
> 
> I will illustrate my next point with how I raised my children. I taught my children that there are two types of discipline. External, given by parents, police, employer, etc. This is usually punative and creates resentment. The other type and better IMO, is self-discipline. It appears your lady has little self-discipline or empathy towards you and your joint children. Self-discipline comes from inside, from knowing limitations and being moral and ethical.
> 
> Your lady appears to be living her life without consequences. I find it bizarre for her to be encouraged to do this by her mother. I could not imagine going to a strip bar with my dad. What is her mother's relationship history?
> 
> There is some truth in that a woman will be like her mother. Ultimately, you need to protect yourself and your children. If my wife, even now after 38 years, dud what yours is doing....she would find herself single and not supported by me, my salary or the security I can provide.


I think its there attitude to life. Nothing serious seems to phase them. Everything ends up being a big joke. 

She does act as there is no consequences, and its obvious now she doesn't think I will leave as she is talking about decorating the house and doing stuff after xmas. I'm just agreeing at the minute and not getting involved with the future talk.

Seems easy to leave but its easier said than done when i have been happy with every other aspect of our relationship and family life, up until now. Its a lot to throw away but also exhausting to live out a future of being treat like crap.


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## Uk1985

leftfield said:


> You need to make sure that she understand that if it is your problem, that you will deal with it. Then you need to go deal with it. If it was me, I would make sure my wife knows that she should not bother coming back, because her behavior is the problem and will be dealt with. Oh wait, my wife already know that so this would not be a problem for us.


Like i say that is all easier said than done and she will just see them as idle threats. I need to have a good think on if it is right for me. 
If she goes to this maybe a trial separation would be the best solution so we can both evaluate what we want


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## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> Like i say that is all easier said than done and she will just see them as idle threats. I need to have a good think on if it is right for me.
> If she goes to this maybe a trial separation would be the best solution so we can both evaluate what we want


a trial separation will end in a for ever separation,
you have kids with this gf if you separate what do you think your input in their life will be , you say your work stops you from taking them now what changes will you make ,
If you stay together what subjects are going to be on the table for that to happen , is marriage going to be on the table


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## In Absentia

I hope you are enjoying your holiday in France...


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## Uk1985

frenchpaddy said:


> a trial separation will end in a for ever separation,
> you have kids with this gf if you separate what do you think your input in their life will be , you say your work stops you from taking them now what changes will you make ,
> If you stay together what subjects are going to be on the table for that to happen , is marriage going to be on the table


Maybe it will, maybe it'll make her realise im not happy being walk all over. I need to decide if im happy with either of them outcomes happening. 

I probably won't have a whole lot of influence in their lives unless my work situation changes as it'll just be weekends. Would have to make the best of the situation i suppose. Then if she got with someone else quickly would i be happy with them being around my kids all the time and not me, especially from such a young age. The lines may get blurred to who is dad.

Marriage was always on the table, looking at rings to propose at the right time because things have been good. Wouldn't have been together so long and had kids if i didnt want to marry her but this has put that well out the window for now. Think a lot needs to be sorted out before we can consider that again.


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## Uk1985

In Absentia said:


> I hope you are enjoying your holiday in France...


On work wifi, its network must have a vpn for france. Very much still in the uk


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## Laurentium

Uk1985 said:


> she will just see them as idle threats


do you have a history of making idle threats that never come to anything?


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## In Absentia

Uk1985 said:


> On work wifi, its network must have a vpn for france. Very much still in the uk


well, that's a bit of a shame!


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## frenchpaddy

Uk1985 said:


> Maybe it will, maybe it'll make her realise im not happy being walk all over. I need to decide if im happy with either of them outcomes happening.
> 
> I probably won't have a whole lot of influence in their lives unless my work situation changes as it'll just be weekends. Would have to make the best of the situation i suppose. Then if she got with someone else quickly would i be happy with them being around my kids all the time and not me, especially from such a young age. The lines may get blurred to who is dad.
> 
> Marriage was always on the table, looking at rings to propose at the right time because things have been good. Wouldn't have been together so long and had kids if i didnt want to marry her but this has put that well out the window for now. Think a lot needs to be sorted out before we can consider that again.


I think your looking for reasons why your relationship should not work , 
I would love to get her side of the story , as we know now you are hard working , nice guy , that never looks at porn , every thing is good except your mother of your children has been asked to go to a kind of strip event that we don't know the full extent of what is going to be involved , 

I can't help but wonder if she was reading this topic would she have any idea who this nice guy is


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## Uk1985

Laurentium said:


> do you have a history of making idle threats that never come to anything?


Nah never made any previous threats


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## Uk1985

frenchpaddy said:


> I think your looking for reasons why your relationship should not work ,
> I would love to get her side of the story , as we know now you are hard working , nice guy , that never looks at porn , every thing is good except your mother of your children has been asked to go to a kind of strip event that we don't know the full extent of what is going to be involved ,
> 
> I can't help but wonder if she was reading this topic would she have any idea who this nice guy is


Im not perfect by any stretch and i have made mistakes in the past (nothing serious like cheating or that) but when she made out she wasn't happy with my behaviour I never done it again or made the same mistake twice.

I'm looking for reasons why it should work and after realising her attitude towards me I not sure if it will. I don't want to break up but don't want to be treated like crap. 

Like everyone has said only i can make a decision which is best for me, i just don't want to do it on a whim or out of haste.
Think we need to talk again about it all as the last convo hasn't solved anything, just made it worse in my eyes.


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## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> Think we need to talk again about it all as the last convo hasn't solved anything, just made it worse in my eyes.


I think that won't help and will only make things even 'more worse'

I also think that if you say "I want a temporary separation" then that won't help either.

In both things here, you will appear weak and not in control. She will know that you're going to rant and rave and stomp your feet and maybe even move out for a minute, but you'll be back.

I think the best chance of success comes if you act right now. Today.

Tell her you are done, she doesn't respect you and you're not going to be in a relationship with someone who treats you like this. Then leave. Pack and walk away.

If there is a snowballs chance in hell for your relationship to continue after this, you will know. If she truly loves you, you will know. She will move heaven and earth to try to fix things, and wouldn't dream of going to the strip bar.

If that doesn't happen then it's best to end it anyway and now you're on the right path for that.


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## Uk1985

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I think that won't help and will only make things even 'more worse'
> 
> I also think that if you say "I want a temporary separation" then that won't help either.
> 
> In both things here, you will appear weak and not in control. She will know that you're going to rant and rave and stomp your feet and maybe even move out for a minute, but you'll be back.
> 
> I think the best chance of success comes if you act right now. Today.
> 
> Tell her you are done, she doesn't respect you and you're not going to be in a relationship with someone who treats you like this. Then leave. Pack and walk away.
> 
> If there is a snowballs chance in hell for your relationship to continue after this, you will know. If she truly loves you, you will know. She will move heaven and earth to try to fix things, and wouldn't dream of going to the strip bar.
> 
> If that doesn't happen then it's best to end it anyway and now you're on the right path for that.


Im not bringing up the topic again, I've made my feelings known, its up to her to bring it up again. I think it would help clear the air and set some boundaries then that we can both respect, if she is willing to. But i think I'll appear weak if i bring it up again.

I'm waiting to see if she goes, as i think she will see me leaving before the event as manipulation not to go and she'll dig her heels in even more.

If she goes, without bringing the subject up again, it shows she really doesn't care.
If i leave i wont ask for a trial separation, i will just pack my bags and go. Whether that would turn in to a permanent separation or just a short period trial separation, i wouldn't know until i do it.


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## BeyondRepair007

Uk1985 said:


> I'm waiting to see if she goes, as i think she will see me leaving before the event as manipulation not to go and she'll dig her heels in even more.


Maybe she will see you leaving as the equivalent of you pouting and will dig her heels in. That would be a mistake, but it's her mistake to make. Stop trying to control that.

It's your relationship and you have lots to consider.
But also consider that you're here because of the way you've handled things up till now.


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## frenchpaddy

i think both need to talk , and talk now not let it get to big or worse get lost in what the problem really is 
which from here looks like the stripper gig is only a small part , 
but don't forget and this is where both seem to be falling down as they say god gave you one mouth but 2 ears so lesion twice as much , for me the difference here is very little , but there is a high risk of the relationship blowing up over what is little 

as much as you say she wants it all her way I think you do as well a case of two hard nuts hopping off each other


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