# Here We Go Again. (this is long)



## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

I could say that I never thought I would end up here, Coping with Infidelity, but then - I would be lying to you, and to myself. I suppose the most logical first step would be providing you with some background information. I've been married for one year out of a three year relationship. My husband is mid-thirties and I am mid-twenties. We have one child together, one on the way, and I have a child from a previous relationship (although my husband has raised her from the time she was a year old, and she has never known another father). So, all in all, we will soon have three children together.

When I met my husband, he had been "the bachelor" for a decade, and I say THE bachelor because we live in a small town, and he has always been the older, good looking, unmarried teacher that everyone knows. I have known him for eight years now, but hadn't thought twice about him during the first five. Then, three years ago, I found him on Match.com. I had just joined that day, and he was one of the suggested matches that appeared for me. I didn't pursue anything, and had in truth just joined the site to kind of see what it was all about, and wasn't planning to take it seriously - I didn't like the notion of meeting strangers. However, he must have also come across me on Match, because later that same week, he found me on Facebook and sent me a message - asking how things were going with me these days. We got to talking, for hours, about politics, sports, life and love, and wound up deciding to meet up for casual conversation in person the following week. Well, the rest is history. The date-that-wasn't-a-date, as we coined it, was the beginning of our forever. 

The first year of our relationship was tough for me. He had a lot of connections with former girlfriends and lovers, that I was just uncomfortable with. I did realize that the beginning of a relationship isn't the time to be setting guidelines that restrict the other person's behavior. I began by leading by example, removing old flames from Facebook, discontinuing any kind of conversations or relationships that I didn't think were fair to my partner, and explaining to male friends who would often make comments and passes, that it was no longer appropriate. That didn't work, although he was clearly grateful, he didn't award the same respect. Instead, six months in, I discovered he was being entirely inappropriate. The way certain messages and texts read, it appeared that he was leaving some options on the back burner - giving them just enough attention, compliments and conversation to keep the door open with former flings and random women. At this point, I gently asked who these people were, why he kept in contact with them, and said it made me uncomfortable. Nothing changed. After that, any conversation we would have about it would turn volatile in a hurry. It was like he just COULDN'T let go of his past. A year in, I told him I wouldn't be in a relationship that was one sided in terms of full commitment and respect. Although it wasn't meant to be an ultimatum, it worked as one, and he reluctantly stopped contact. Or so I thought. 

Unfortunately for me, I trusted him, and didn't worry about it any further. He proposed to me the fall after our one year anniversary, six months removed from any known issues, and I said yes. We planned a wedding for the following Fall. About six weeks before the big day, I went to a wine tasting with my future sister in law to make selections for the wedding. While I was away (our location was 2 hours from home) he had exchanged texts with one of 2 women I had grown to hate out of the group of them. The content exchanged was how they never stop missing each other, he in fact told her he realized he would miss her every day, and she tore apart marriage as being society's way of validating a relationship and putting bounds on love, she asked him if he struggled to remain faithful, and he told her he did. I was, naturally, distraught. Not only did you contact this person you'd sworn off, the things you said were unforgivable. The conversation also made it clear they had been in touch throughout the year and a half I was promised they had not. I almost called off the wedding, to which he responded that he just had cold feet, and he was being stupid, and he was sorry, and it *wasn't like he'd cheated on me*. I told him if he ever spoke to her again, married or not, we were over, and continued planning. 

Three weeks later, and three weeks away from our wedding day, I was home one day while he was at work, and just got a bad feeling - I can't explain it. So, (being the tech savvy person I am) I hacked into his phone's database. Sure enough, he was exchanging messages with a number not saved in his phone. And here is where my heart shatters into a million jagged pieces. He initiated the text with "Hey beautiful" and I knew it was going to be bad. He told her he missed her, what he missed about her, and apologized for "last time". To which she said she liked hot, kinky, intimate sex and that wasn't what they had. He replied that he liked that too, and wanted that kind of experience, and to not "where the rubber" but he didn't know if he was safe to do so. She told him she didn't feel they were sexually compatible, complained that he wouldn't L her P, and that they could go out again, but she wouldn't be comfortable having sex this time.

When he got home, he tried to lie, as always. So, I sent a message to the number - telling her I was his fiance, and that if she had any decency, she wouldn't let another woman marry a man if there was something going on. She immediately called me, and had no idea I even existed. She told me he took her out for drinks and then they got a hotel, all while I was working and at school all day getting my Master's. I packed my things in silent shock - the first stage, and then went through the second - rage. I told him he was an Fing this, and an Fing that, a liar and a cheater, etc. But it wasn't until I came downstairs with a moving box of clothes and essentials for both myself, and my daughter, that he reacted. He wept, begged me to please stay, told me that he would do anything. We could postpone the wedding, he would change his number, he would block anyone I wasn't comfortable with from his email and call lists, I could have passwords to all of his accounts, we could do counseling, he would put an app on his phone that sent a copy of all of his calls and texts to mine, he would stay in the guest room, he would go to work and come directly home and do nothing else for as long as I needed, etc. Eventually, I agreed. 

I forced him to give me play-by-play details, what she looked like, how he knew her, what he wore, what they did, how he felt, everything. I needed to know his dirty secrets, so they wouldn't be THEIRS anymore. We cancelled our bachelor and bachelorette parties, but still got married, and I WAS happy on that day. God, I love this man, so much so I am blinded by it - I think. I also think I was still in shock, because it wasn't until a few weeks after the wedding, that I feel into a deep depression. I hated him. I hated everyone. I didn't do anything or go anywhere. I cried daily. This stage finally stopped about 2 months ago. 

Which brings us to now. I was looking through old messages, searching for something for a legal case totally unrelated, and found an odd text from the same day he'd texted the "other woman" and I'd found out about the initial infidelity. I'd overlooked it last year, because I was good and distracted with the other. This text just said "tomoro good?" to which he responded "can I see a pic of your friend?" Weird, right? So, I looked up the number....and found it linked to a Call Girl/Escort website and a seedy Massage Parlor. I began to hyperventilate, our daughter was asleep upstairs and due to go to Grandma's for two days the following day, and I knew this would get bad, so I left my laptop screen open to what I had found, sat it on the couch next to him, and went upstairs to bed. We didn't speak, he came in hours later and asked me something sweetly, but I ignored him and fell asleep. After our daughter was gone the following day, I confronted him about it after work. First he promised me he'd never had any sort of physical contact, that he knew her outside her business as a person/acquaintance. I didn't buy it. Eventually, after hours of prodding, begging, and finally crying - he told me the truth - that he used to see her at her home, and pay her for manual sex.

Now, I am back at square one. He knew I wouldn't have forgiven this and stayed, which is why he never told me. I now have doubts about everything he ever told me having to do with infidelity, when I had previously thought I had the full picture with all the details. I am angry, disgusted, appalled, shocked, sad, and indescribably hurt. 

I guess I just needed to finally get that off my chest, as no one else knows about this - I am a private person, and could really use advice and insight.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

If it were me, I don't believe I would have ever married him knowing what kind of man he is. I certainly would not continue to be married to him knowing what kind of man he is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You shouldn't have married him but you know that now. Any suspicions he's cheated since you married him or was it limited to before?


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

karole said:


> If it were me, I don't believe I would have ever married him knowing what kind of man he is. I certainly would not continue to be married to him knowing what kind of man he is.


Thank you for commenting, but I did marry him, so what I should or shouldn't have done isn't really all that relevant. I don't believe in divorce, without doing everything you can to make it work, and we are not there yet. I hate defending him - but he is a good man. Since we have been married, he has done absolutely nothing but be the best husband someone could ask for - this is all a year or two old, what I need help with is moving forward.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Openminded said:


> You shouldn't have married him but you know that now. Any suspicions he's cheated since you married him or was it limited to before?


Limited to before. Of this I am absolutely certain. So, we are a year out at this point. The discovery is fresh.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It hurts now because you only discovered it now so he's going to have to treat it (and fix it) as though it did just happen.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

I perceive you are an intelligent and strong woman therefore you do not need any advise from me... just encouragement.

You know what to do. Your rational thoughts are being clouded by the emotional connection you have with him. It will take you a bit of time to subordinate your heart to your mind, but when you do you'll do what must be done.

Best of luck.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

MrsFrench said:


> ....He knew I wouldn't have forgiven this and stayed, which is why he never told me. I now have doubts about everything he ever told me having to do with infidelity, when I had previously thought I had the full picture with all the details.....


Yup. Similar to "bait and switch", he withheld truth to keep you. You thought you had the whole story, but you may never have the whole story. I would bet the house that there is PLENTY more you don't know about.

So have you asked for transparency for ALL that he did?
Is that something you want, moving forward?

This latest find was a trigger...it brought everything back, made the hurt all fresh again. If you need transparency, you should ask for it, otherwise, be prepared for more triggers over the years, and the misery that comes along with it. 

Also be prepared for plenty of gaps in the "story". These are often met with more triggers along the way, but passed off by the cheater with "oh, I forgot about that", or "I don't remember that"...you'll see people recommend that a "time-line/cheating calendar" get filled out for this very reason.

I don't know what you see in him. He's a serial cheater, liar, trickle-truther who can't be trusted. Do you think he'll change?

I would ask him to get some IC, and maybe some MC for both of you. I wish you the best, but this guy? Seriously?


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks for replying to my post. But reading this, I don't want to be in your shoes down the road.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Maybe I missed something but how do you know if he is being faithful today?


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

IMO, he has shown little respect and commitment to you and by trickle truthing , I fear that you will never get the whole story. He fancies himself as a player, and I believe it is only a matter of time before he cheats on you again. He enjoys the chase and the excitement if illicit texts and meetings. What kind of father figure does this to his childrens Mom? You need to throw his arse out next time and be vigilant in your monitoring of his activities. New cell phone, scrub his old contacts, monitor cell phone bill, etc. Maybe VAR his car even. Certainly be aware of his whereabouts. Hate to see a new marriage begin like this


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

MrsFrench said:


> He knew I wouldn't have forgiven this and stayed, which is why he never told me.


So in effect, he married you under false pretenses. I can certainly respect your view on divorce, but you don't need a better reason to do it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you say you KNOW he hasn't cheated since you got married. I can't imagine how you'd know, but...

It sounded like he was sincere at your confrontation, it sounds like you're saying he had texted this second girl BEFORE your confrontation - but not after. Do I have that right?

If so, if you really want him, I'd say give it a shot but you must exact VERY strong rules about checking him randomly, proving he is in NC, all that. It IS possible that seeing you leave scared him straight. But I wouldn't depend on just that feeling.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't think your husband will ever be faithful. Sadly, he will continue to cheat and has never had any consequences for his behavior. 

Three small children is tough. 

If you don't want a divorce, you should use protection for sex and get checked regularly for STD's. 

He is putting your health at risk with his behavior. 

I'm confused as to why you want to stay with this untrustworthy man but whatever you choose, some individual counseling may help. 

Very sad situation. Sorry you are here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rugs said:


> I don't think your husband will ever be faithful. Sadly, he will continue to cheat and has never had any consequences for his behavior.
> 
> Three small children is tough.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This is not setting a good example for your daughter, is it?


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

I know he is being faithful now, because we have done everything all of you have suggested - as far as the monitoring and ensuring I know his whereabouts and so forth. He goes to work, and comes home, that's it. He has a new phone, fresh contacts, the calls and texts are recorded and monitored on an online account he has no access to. He is a teacher, when he calls in sick or leaves early, it is documented on the school's staff-web, which I have the password to, so he can't sneak off and say he was working, or anything of that sort. I do believe and trust that he isn't doing anything deceitful and hasn't for the past year. Now, granted, I don't spend a lot of time looking in on him like I did at the very beginning - but when I check up every so often, everything is fine. 

I understand some people think divorce isn't something that is a big deal - but to me, it is. And, even if it weren't, I do love this man. We've been through a lot together, including the death of a child. He is the father of my children. Working through this is important to me, doing everything I can to make it work is something I am willing to do given that he:

is remorseful
I see a change in him in several ways
has remained faithful from the day we took our vows

I will say that there is no question if I were to discover he's been unfaithful since we've been married, or something were to happen years down the road, I would leave. Though I have marital values and endless love for him - I am not willing to be in a marriage lacking loyalty.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This is not setting a good example for your daughter, is it?


My daughter certainly isn't aware of anything, she is our number one priority and the examples we set for her are just fine.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Glad things are going better. 

It's hard to find out things after the fact.

Hopefully he will remain faithful and it sounds like he's behaving now. 

Of course anger will rise up every now and again with your spouse. It's totally natural. 

If he's great now, just vent like you did, but don't stay too angry. Try to think of the clean slate he was given and go from there. I'm still mad at a boyfriend that cheated on me in 1983! Lol. 

Totally normal feelings!


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

I am very sorry for the heartache and pain. There is nothing easy about wading through what you have discovered. Have you considered calling a counselor? A good family specialist could really help you outline a plan on how to respond. This is true whether you want to reconcile or divorce. The truth is that your marriage can recover but it will take a lot of effort on the part of both you and your husband. Don't try to do it on your own. I can give more specific recommendations if you are interested. Send me a private message for those. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

WolverineFan said:


> I am very sorry for the heartache and pain. There is nothing easy about wading through what you have discovered. Have you considered calling a counselor? A good family specialist could really help you outline a plan on how to respond. This is true whether you want to reconcile or divorce. The truth is that your marriage can recover but it will take a lot of effort on the part of both you and your husband. Don't try to do it on your own. I can give more specific recommendations if you are interested. Send me a private message for those. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


We saw a couple's therapist once before, to deal with this issue during the first round of discovery. I don't know if it was just the particular woman we saw, but it did nothing for me at the time. I suppose trying to find another counselor is an option. I am willing to try anything. I am either a total mess of heartache, pain, resentment and anger - or I pretend none of it happened to make it through the days. Neither are ways I want to live long term.


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## ShadowBunny (Mar 9, 2011)

MrsFrench said:


> We saw a couple's therapist once before, to deal with this issue during the first round of discovery. I don't know if it was just the particular woman we saw, but it did nothing for me at the time. I suppose trying to find another counselor is an option. I am willing to try anything. I am either a total mess of heartache, pain, resentment and anger - or I pretend none of it happened to make it through the days. Neither are ways I want to live long term.


Couple of thoughts: First, I admire your dedication to your marriage and your family. I have no doubt that your heart aches with this latest discovery, regardless of how long ago it happened. 

Second, individual counseling for you can help you process these feelings and give you an outlet. It's not enough to say "stop thinking about it," because our brains don't work that way. Instead, you need to find ways to keep those thoughts from being intrusive, while at the same time processing the emotions you're having. 

Time WILL make things better. But IC will make it better, quicker. Best to you and your precious family.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

ShadowBunny said:


> Couple of thoughts: First, I admire your dedication to your marriage and your family. I have no doubt that your heart aches with this latest discovery, regardless of how long ago it happened.
> 
> Second, individual counseling for you can help you process these feelings and give you an outlet. It's not enough to say "stop thinking about it," because our brains don't work that way. Instead, you need to find ways to keep those thoughts from being intrusive, while at the same time processing the emotions you're having.
> 
> Time WILL make things better. But IC will make it better, quicker. Best to you and your precious family.


Thank you so much. I know many people find it weak or naive to stay with a wayward partner, but I am not fooling myself into thinking this won't be a battle. I appreciate the lack of judgement and husband beating. 

I hope time helps, a year out from the first discovery, and two years out from the more verbal/emotional stuff, and the only difference is that it crosses my mind a little less often. 

I am suggesting counseling to H again. I will try IC counseling as well.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> Thank you for commenting, but I did marry him, so what I should or shouldn't have done isn't really all that relevant. I don't believe in divorce, without doing everything you can to make it work, and we are not there yet. I hate defending him - but he is a good man. Since we have been married, he has done absolutely nothing but be the best husband someone could ask for - this is all a year or two old, what I need help with is moving forward.


You can't move forward until you are ready to address the past.

VAR and keylogger and access to passwords to ensure his compliance with your marital goals and values.

Anything short of this, you will spend much time spinning your wheels.

You give him too much credit but you know him and have to live with him so your feelings are what matters here. 

Good luck


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

wmn1 said:


> You can't move forward until you are ready to address the past.
> 
> VAR and keylogger and access to passwords to ensure his compliance with your marital goals and values.
> 
> ...


We took all the steps you suggested a year ago - which is why I am confident in his current fidelity and can give him the small sliver of credit he has earned since we've been married. It's not much, but it is something, and without a small shred of confidence in my husband - what would be the point in moving forward? 

Thank you for the well wishes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrsFrench said:


> We saw a couple's therapist once before, to deal with this issue during the first round of discovery. I don't know if it was just the particular woman we saw, but it did nothing for me at the time. I suppose trying to find another counselor is an option. I am willing to try anything. I am either a total mess of heartache, pain, resentment and anger - or I pretend none of it happened to make it through the days. Neither are ways I want to live long term.


Find a different counselor. You truly DO have to pick and choose to find the right one. Go online and type your city, and marriage counselor, and reviews. You'll be able to read other people's experiences, to help narrow it down. 

You're unlikely to be able to just get over this without some professional therapy and guidance.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

turnera said:


> Find a different counselor. You truly DO have to pick and choose to find the right one. Go online and type your city, and marriage counselor, and reviews. You'll be able to read other people's experiences, to help narrow it down.
> 
> You're unlikely to be able to just get over this without some professional therapy and guidance.


I just emailed H, as he's been prodding me for my thoughts and feelings on moving forward - and if I even want to. I told him I need us to see someone again, and I may need some solo sessions as well. 

Our last counselor, had a method that just...well, it actually angered me and mad me understand why people call psychiatrists "quacks". She had us find times in our childhood where we first felt the feelings we were feeling - betrayal and abandonment for me, self-hatred and impulse control issues for him - and more or less blame it on that, and focus on letting go of that time in our lives. My mother's parenting failures aren't what is keeping me up at night - it's my broken heart. But, I suppose that is a totally different topic.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, she was partially right. When you are faced with a certain situation, it's your FOO stuff that DICTATES how you react. If you were raised super confident and an athlete who took no prisoners and your parents raised you to speak your mind, when you discovered his cheating you'd most likely want to beat him with a broom. If you were raised to shut up and not deserve space and were questioned on your choices, you'd most likely react in fear and crying and begging him not to leave you. Stuff like that. It really IS important. Your FOO experience is what hardwires your brain, and what's hardwired in your brain (ie the strongest connections in your brain) become what you do FIRST, without thinking, even if you don't want to. So she was trying to figure out what kind of people you two were, to see what you're likely to do moving forward, and what you're even capable of. If you're a runner, she can't push you hard to face your anger. If you're a natural liar, she can't get you to own up to what you did. Stuff like that. And once you understand that stuff, you can then start to dissociate yourself from it and not let it keep dictating how you react and feel.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

turnera said:


> Well, she was partially right. When you are faced with a certain situation, it's your FOO stuff that DICTATES how you react. If you were raised super confident and an athlete who took no prisoners and your parents raised you to speak your mind, when you discovered his cheating you'd most likely want to beat him with a broom. If you were raised to shut up and not deserve space and were questioned on your choices, you'd most likely react in fear and crying and begging him not to leave you. Stuff like that. It really IS important. Your FOO experience is what hardwires your brain, and what's hardwired in your brain (ie the strongest connections in your brain) become what you do FIRST, without thinking, even if you don't want to. So she was trying to figure out what kind of people you two were, to see what you're likely to do moving forward, and what you're even capable of. If you're a runner, she can't push you hard to face your anger. If you're a natural liar, she can't get you to own up to what you did. Stuff like that. And once you understand that stuff, you can then start to dissociate yourself from it and not let it keep dictating how you react and feel.


I understand the method, I considered being a psychiatric nurse before choosing my specialty, but it was all we focused on for over a month. We got absolutely nowhere. I know a therapist isn't going to "fix" us in a handful of weeks, but I would have liked to leave the visits at least feeling that something was accomplished, or with some tools for every day life until we get there.


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## ShadowBunny (Mar 9, 2011)

While being aware of Family of Origin issues _can_ be useful, I don't feel it's always the most effective modality. I'm a fan of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for dealing with intrusive thoughts and changing your mind-set. Effective and has real-life tools and applications. 

But let's face it: the best type of therapy is the one that works for YOU. You'll know when you click with a therapist and you feel you're making progress.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

ShadowBunny said:


> While being aware of Family of Origin issues _can_ be useful, I don't feel it's always the most effective modality. I'm a fan of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for dealing with intrusive thoughts and changing your mind-set. Effective and has real-life tools and applications.
> 
> But let's face it: the best type of therapy is the one that works for YOU. You'll know when you click with a therapist and you feel you're making progress.


 Thank you. I am definitely ready and willing to see what does work.


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