# devastated



## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

hello everyone, this is my first post. sorry its a downer. i felt compelled to get some help on my situation so here I am.

my wife and i have been married for a little over 2 years now, together for almost 7. i'm 27 she is 26. we met our sophomore year in college and our lives have been joined ever since. after college i moved away to start a job, she got a job nearby but still an hour drive away so we moved in together. we lived together for about 6 months before we got married (engaged for a year). in march she got a new job closer by. for the last year or so we have been fighting about once a month. she complains that shes unhappy, or that she feels like we are just friends. its wierd, but about 75% of the time she apologizes the next day and says she didnt mean those things. i try to make adjustments, to be more affectionate and touchy-feely. well a few months back she started getting close to her co-workers. thats ok, she always complained we didnt have any friends. but she started getting close to one guy in particular, who she now tells everything to (more on him below). now all of the sudden her grandma has a stroke, and i think she is overwhelmed with emotion. 



she convinces me that we should try separating for a week, so i'm crashing at a friends house. we would get back together sunday (tomorrow) and discuss what our next option is. shes living it up, going out after work and staying out very late, i'm miserable and depressed, our separation was supposed to be on the down low, but she told me that she told the other guy. i just know this guy has a self-serving agenda. hes planting the seeds in her head to push her away from me. hes divorced and single. i trust her completely and we agreed before the separation that we are still married and no cheating of course. mean while i'm left thinking about all the things i did wrong or could have done better or should have done. i blame myself for seriously f****** up this marriage. i cant eat or sleep, I'm in no mood to go out and enjoy myself. this separation started well, but i just cant take the fact that shes going out with all these people i have never met, especially the "other guy." i'm driving my self insane thinking about it. 

i love her so deeply and am still very much in love with her, I'm just very afraid of what she gonna tell me tomorrow, she says she has some "things she needs to put on the table." today she tells me that she is not emotionally there. all i can do is push the fact that i would do anything for her and whatever i could possibly do to make her happy in this marriage. i think the problem is we are miserable, and the problem is not necessarily our marriage. i am going to push therapy really hard tomorrow no matter what she says. 

we have a dog and just got done building a house together. i built it myself, it was our decision. i built it in my spare time after work, took about a year. in a way i feel like this house has destroyed our marriage. i never should have built it. 

i feel so lost and depressed, and on top of that i'm just waiting. thats the worst part

i need ideas, words of wisdom or just plain anything i can bring up or say tomorrow to help our marriage

thanks


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wow - you built her a house - most women would love that. 

If she married you - at some point she loved you. What changed?




FloridaGuy said:


> hello everyone, this is my first post. sorry its a downer. i felt compelled to get some help on my situation so here I am.
> 
> my wife and i have been married for a little over 2 years now, together for almost 7. i'm 27 she is 26. we met our sophomore year in college and our lives have been joined ever since. after college i moved away to start a job, she got a job nearby but still an hour drive away so we moved in together. we lived together for about 6 months before we got married (engaged for a year). in march she got a new job closer by. for the last year or so we have been fighting about once a month. she complains that shes unhappy, or that she feels like we are just friends. its wierd, but about 75% of the time she apologizes the next day and says she didnt mean those things. i try to make adjustments, to be more affectionate and touchy-feely. well a few months back she started getting close to her co-workers. thats ok, she always complained we didnt have any friends. but she started getting close to one guy in particular, who she now tells everything to (more on him below). now all of the sudden her grandma has a stroke, and i think she is overwhelmed with emotion.
> 
> ...


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Wow - you built her a house - most women would love that.
> 
> If she married you - at some point she loved you. What changed?


i guess we went to a no worries college life relationship, to an adult relationship, we both have jobs and responsibilities now. i've never been a very sensitive guy but shes always known that

she just left to go shopping. i did some snooping and found some things out. 

we just got a security system installed. it logs everytime an event happens. i left to go to my buddies house last night at 730pm. when i got home this morning around 845, i noticed the security alarm wasn't activated, thats wierd for her not to arm it while shes alone. well i was in the garage this morning while she was sleeping, she took the sheets of our bed and threw them in the washer real quick. i noticed her in the laundry but didnt think much of it. i found a reciept laying on the ground in the kitchen from IHOP, timed at 2.57am last night. i check the sec. system logs, there was an event at 1130pm last night, which would be disarming after i armed it at 730, and 825 am this morning, just 20 min before i got back

so

730 pm i arm the system and leave. 

1130 pm the system is disarmed and then maybe rearmed

300 am she is at IHOP. 

825am the system is disarmed

845am i come home

this makes me thing she came back at 1130 to get something or change. leaves and goes who knows where, prolly a club, then goes to IHOP this morning and doesnt sleep at home, wakes up early and comes home

i dont know how to handle this without making it look like i was snooping? i'm think i need to just sit her down and ask her to be honest with me


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ask her questions to trip her up. She doesn't know you have the proof already. See my thread on lying in the infielity section. Liars are great at changing a story right in front of you. If she F's up a story that bad and you hit her with it, hard and fast, she won't be able to recover (unless she's REALLY good). 

When she IMMEDIATELY tries to dig herself out of that hole by accusing you of snooping, send her to me and I'll explain my theory on liars to her for you. I'll explain how you need to snoop when dealing with a liar.

I know my wife loves me very much, and to see her look me dead in the eye and lie....


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

cody5 said:


> Ask her questions to trip her up. She doesn't know you have the proof already. See my thread on lying in the infielity section. Liars are great at changing a story right in front of you. If she F's up a story that bad and you hit her with it, hard and fast, she won't be able to recover (unless she's REALLY good).
> 
> When she IMMEDIATELY tries to dig herself out of that hole by accusing you of snooping, send her to me and I'll explain my theory on liars to her for you. I'll explain how you need to snoop when dealing with a liar.
> 
> I know my wife loves me very much, and to see her look me dead in the eye and lie....



thanks for the advice. i decided not to confront her with it until our sit down talk tomorrow. I'll see how that goes and then make a decision from there

my anxiety is through the roof right now i'm trembling


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

Sorry dude I feel for you, 

It is a very hard and long road to stay married,

to stay focused on each other.

Women, they go for whats worst for them, 

The guy they need is standing right in front of them

But, not exciting enough, not bad enough not (insert here) _ _ _ _ _

If your the good guy, I have no idea when we good guys finish first.

Good luck to you


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

thanks for the response. i'm the good guy

we are sleeping in the same house tonight, but in separate rooms. she went to bed first. about an hour later i come in to get something from the bathroom. my dog followed and went up to her in the bed. she was up watching tv. i asked her if she would want the dog with her tonight, as she responded her phone vibrated. 

"who is that" i asked

"no one" she says

"is it the other guy" i say

"yes" she says

i look dissapointed and walk away

"hes giving me advice" she says

i say that "you can always talk to me." and walk out

i cant sleep now, i'm taking benadryl to help but this anxiety is so strong


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

well she admitted this guy was an EA. swears its not physical. she says she has no emotion for me cause its all going to him. she told me she had the full intention of walking into this talk telling me she wanted a divorce. whats worse is she has told the EA everything thats going on and everything she told me. i managed to convince her to consider counseling for us. she says she needs time to consider if our marriage is worth saving. she says even if counseling works for us she doesnt want to cut her EA out, she will still be friendly towards him. i think if counseling works, then the love will return to our marriage and the feelings for the EA will fade. i know thats probably a very small possibility, but i still think its worth a shot. 

i hit her with the sec system logs, she said she stayed the night at her female coworkers house and swear on her life that it hasnt gotten physical with the EA

so tomorrow i'm gonna find a good counselor in our area and work out the details, cost etc. and she will make a decision. i know i have been dreading this talk but i feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

FloridaGuy said:


> i hit her with the sec system logs, she said she stayed the night at her female coworkers house and swear on her life that it hasnt gotten physical with the EA


She's probably lying. Sorry, but in these situations, doubt EVERYTHING. 2 last comments then I'll let you go.

1 - Keep her talking. The biggest problem I had with my wife's activities was the secrecy. She would NEVER tell me where she went or what she did. The VERY FEW times she was forced to talk, she gave up clues she didn't even realize she was giving up. Smart strategy for her to be secretive.

2 - Keep a journal. I got that advice too late from another thread. My big talk didn't go very well because I didn't have all of my facts straight. 

3 - OK, one more: The talk WILL NOT go as you are planning on it going. Be ready for some reactions you are not prepared for. Be prepared and stay light on your feet. Dodge and weave.

Good luck.


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

i actually have been keeping a journal from the beginning of our separation. i did it just to help me cope and air out my feelings a little, even if its only on paper. 

i went into the talk knowing what i was going to say and how i was going to ask the questions. as i said she came into wanting to tell me she wants a divorce. but i managed to get her to think about it at least by reminding her how madly in love we were at one point and that shows we have the capacity to get their again. i told her i was in it 100% and willing to forgive anything she has done. i brought up our marriage vows and how we took an oath before God to basically exhaust all our options before giving up. if we end up in a divorce after counseling, then thats that. i just dont want to look back and think we could have done something to make it work

thanks to all for the help. i'll be updating as time passes


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why does she say "we are more like friends then lovers?" 

You mentioned that when she does that, you try to be more affectionate. There is no shame having a spouse with a higher drive than you. Everyone has that to a degree. Meaning no one has a perfectly matched drive with their mate for a whole lifetime. Still - is her drive a lot higher then yours?






FloridaGuy said:


> i actually have been keeping a journal from the beginning of our separation. i did it just to help me cope and air out my feelings a little, even if its only on paper.
> 
> i went into the talk knowing what i was going to say and how i was going to ask the questions. as i said she came into wanting to tell me she wants a divorce. but i managed to get her to think about it at least by reminding her how madly in love we were at one point and that shows we have the capacity to get their again. i told her i was in it 100% and willing to forgive anything she has done. i brought up our marriage vows and how we took an oath before God to basically exhaust all our options before giving up. if we end up in a divorce after counseling, then thats that. i just dont want to look back and think we could have done something to make it work
> 
> thanks to all for the help. i'll be updating as time passes


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Why does she say "we are more like friends then lovers?"
> 
> You mentioned that when she does that, you try to be more affectionate. There is no shame having a spouse with a higher drive than you. Everyone has that to a degree. Meaning no one has a perfectly matched drive with their mate for a whole lifetime. Still - is her drive a lot higher then yours?


i want sex more then she does. she says she would have more sex if we were more intimate and affectionate together while we are not having sex, just around the house, small things like leaving notes etc. she says everytime i cuddle with her its just because i want sex. i cuddle with her all the time and get sex maybe 10% so i cant understand her reasoning for that, and i've told her this. i feel like she isnt attracted to me so i loose self confidence and the cycle continues

i would always try to be more affectionate after we had a fight and she said those things. it would always get better, we would have more sex, things would be great, than a month later same thing. always happened around here period so i attributed it a lot to that. 

i knew she was unhappy, so i tried to give her things to make her happy. i encouraged her to get a new job closer to where we live, i built a house for her because she was unhappy with our small rental. we bought furniture, TV's, surround sound, built a huge deck in the backyard for entertaining etc.etc. 

i know now that we both were trying to cure the unhappiness by adding or removing "things" that we suspect were making us unhappy. i should have been concentrating on us instead, the rest is material. this is my first marriage so its not like i'm a pro at it lol we are both learning. thats a valuable lesson i learned whether this works out or not


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Oh the affection thing. The basic trick with that is you cuddle, stroke, kiss, pat her ass or something as a generally matter of course whenever you see her and then just continue on with your day. Foreplay starts when you get out of bed, not at bedtime.
> 
> Don't touch her with the goal of fclosing on her. Don't whine and beg for sex. Women find that a total turn off.


i never wine for sex and my wife would be the first to tell you that. i try to do what she asks me, i'm very affectionate towards her throughout the entire day. we hug and kiss in the morning, we call each other at lunch, she calls me on her way home, we greet each other affectionately when we come home. 

i would have sex 5 times a day with her if i could and she wanted, i'm a young guy what do you expect. however i understand that isnt reasonable and dont even want to have sex with her if i sense that she doesnt and is just doing it for me. thats a turn off for me. i still cuddle knowing that i wont get sex, i cuddle because i love her and want to be close to her

things arent looking good though, i'd say 99% chance of divorce unless therapy works a damn miracle. i pray it does


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

this thing with the EA is bad and destroying any chance we have at recovery. i basically refused the divorce because the EA is clouding her judgment and not letting the decision be just about us. since he is in the picture, the divorce would be very bitter for me and i told her that. i asked her if she decides to do counseling that she cut off all communication with him while she is doing so. this way it me, her and a therapist. if she holds to this, does therapy and still wants a divorce then i dont think i would be as bitter. 

i told her that i dont want her talking to him in any way shape or form inside my house, the house i built, and doing so is a direct disrespect to me by both of them. she started to get mad but i immediately stomped that notion out of her head. 

i feel anger starting to enter my world of emotion now and it scares me.


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

Once a woman starts down the road of Emotional Attachment, your done for.

My wife of 24 years left me for an emotional attachment at work

You want a good read that started six months ago look at mine

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/5745-hurts-sooooo-bad-right-now.html

My wife and I had a fight, which led to an emotional attachment from a guy at work just giving her advice, she attached, then she moved towards him, first by wanting a separation, then she was "conflicted" which is a secret word for I like the other guy better than you, then she wanted a divorce, then she moved out and right in with him.

If there truly is an emotional attachment, it is going to have to run it's course.

Sorry, I've been there


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## Round2 (Oct 18, 2009)

First of all I want to say that I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. You're obviously hurting and trying to do whatever you can to make things right. 

Please consider that my comments are based on my interpretation of your situation and, as an outsider, I can't possible know all the ins and outs of your actual relationship. None of us can. 

Just some things to consider:

Respectfully, your wife has clearly stated that she's not emotionally invested in the relationship any longer but it appears that what you're doing is trying to coerce her to stay then setting up conditions for her to do so. Do you really and truly believe that this will encourage her to recommit to you? Let me assure you that this will do nothing but drive her away. 

If she has already informed you that she would like a divorce, her incentive for lying is eliminated. What would the primary purpose be? Efforts to interrogate her or "trip her up" are irrelevant. She wants to leave. She has little to gain by lying to you. 

Now, that said, it is perfectly reasonable for you to ask for her to consider counselling. As marriage is a significant commitment, if there is any chance that the marriage can be saved then it's worth exploring, but please remember that, as painful as it sounds, you cannot want it enough for both of you. 
If she is really done with the relationship and has moved on emotionally, there is no amount of cajoling, anger, begging, manipulating etc. that will change that. It will only drive her further away. 

Your stipulation that her EA remains out of the picture is perfectly reasonable but unlikely, as she's not sorry that he's a part of her life. I firmly believe that your best bet is to listen to her, I mean REALLY listen to her, hear what her needs are and be the husband that she has repeatedly told you she is longing for, thus reducing her need to have this man as her emotional crutch. If things only get better for short periods of time and she is continually complaining about the same issues, then she's not feeling that you "get it". Realistically, how angry/hurt/frustrated/undervalued do you think that has made her feel over time? 

You sound like a genuinely nice man and I hope that you and your wife can find your way back to each other. I wish you the absolutely best of luck.


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

outinthecold said:


> Once a woman starts down the road of Emotional Attachment, your done for.
> 
> My wife of 24 years left me for an emotional attachment at work
> 
> ...


i'm starting to see this now. i snooped and went on her facebook. found her EA and saw a sweet little message she sent him earlier today, when she is so depressed at home. its like shes a totally different person now, not who i married. i fully expect divorce now. i still want therapy even if its for myself, although i left the door open for us to start over. what can i say i always have tried to be an optimist

she called the guy and said shes taking a break from everything, including him while she clears her head to make an un-clouded decision. i don think it will work

my wife, best friend, my life for the last 7 years gone just like that. hard to believe and it feels like sometimes it isnt real

the anger resentment and bitterness are just growing inside of me. despite all thisi would still take her back. wtf is wrong with me


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

Round2 said:


> First of all I want to say that I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. You're obviously hurting and trying to do whatever you can to make things right.
> 
> Please consider that my comments are based on my interpretation of your situation and, as an outsider, I can't possible know all the ins and outs of your actual relationship. None of us can.
> 
> ...


my whole purpose for arguing with her to save our marriage was counseling. your right marriage is a significant commitment and thats why i;m not ready to throw in the towel until we've tried everything. i didnt tell her not to divorce me, i told that i am at rock bottom and its clear to me now thats what i needed and i am more motivated than ever to change. she knows when i put my mind to something i get it done. then i told her if she can clear her head (ie not talk to this guy) to clear her head while we are at counseling, and after that she still wanted a divorce than it wouldnt be so bitter for me because the divorce would seem to be more about us than an outside influence on us

thanks for the good wishes. i hope it works out to. i think i'm being pretty reasonable to her through out this ordeal


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## Round2 (Oct 18, 2009)

I agree that your handling of the situation seems more than reasonable and it looks like you are motivated by genuine love for your wife. 

In reading your posts, my major concern for you was the fact that sometimes, in situations like this, we start to get a little desperate and act on some bad judgments. I just wanted to illustrate a couple of potential red flags that I thought I might be seeing, and attempt to give some perspective. 

I sincerely hope it works out for you. 

ETA- we must have posted our earlier comments at around the same time as I didn't see your update. I'm sorry that you're feeling less positive. I hope that, even if you separate, your wife will still consider counselling.


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

Round2 said:


> I agree that your handling of the situation seems more than reasonable and it looks like you are motivated by genuine love for your wife.
> 
> In reading your posts, my major concern for you was the fact that sometimes, in situations like this, we start to get a little desperate and act on some bad judgments. I just wanted to illustrate a couple of potential red flags that I thought I might be seeing, and attempt to give some perspective.
> 
> I sincerely hope it works out for you.


i truly appreciate your advice. thats what i signed up here for. thanks to all that have chimed in. it has really helped me to cope. its just a very hard situation. if we divorce it will take me a very long time to recover (part of me thinks i may never recover), meanwhile she has someone waiting for her and thats a tough pill to swallow.

the pain is just tremendous


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

"giving her advice?!?!?" on what, the stock market? man, that's a conversation i'd love to be a fly on the wall for. i, too, am separated. most of the problems between me and my wife came out saturday. no "om" no "ea". rather, she's suspicious of me using narcotics (nope) or spending money on another woman (nope), just i i was suspicious of her having someone else (nope). she is just extremely hot (think sandra bullock) and i'm extremely outgoing. so both traits led to some jealousy (stupid, i know that now).

she is just now starting to question her reasons for separating. chances are you wife will too, once the newness of separation wears off.

hang in there. be a prince, her knight in shining armor. then reel it in. watch her react to what she'll be missing. timing is everything. there's nothing wrong with using the info you now have to tip the timing question in your favor.

think "WIN." she's YOUR wife. not this new goofs.


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## goldfish14 (Oct 18, 2009)

Florida guy,

Thanks for your thoughts regarding my situation. It does suck big time. I don't know what is gonna happen, I can only hope for the best. I am trying to be upbeat and not overwhelm her. My approach is to hopefully get her to try out therapy for herself as it would seem that that couples therapy is not for us right now. Regarding your situation, it sounds pretty rough and I can completely relate as my ex from my previous marriage had a EA who she left me for and did marry. My ex had a kid with the EA as well. Interestingly, my son has told me that she is miserable with him as he is a head case and verbally abusive. My son hates him to death. As one person had mentioned in their reply to you an EA can turn out to be a nightmare. My ex turned to this EA because he quote unquote understood her and she did claim there was nothing physical but clearly there was. All I can say is if your wife is willing to do therapy then this EA needs to be out of the picture as he will do nothing but poison any chance of reconciliation between the two of you. The one good thing that you have going on is that you do not have kids as that really makes things difficult.. trust me I have been there and I might (hopefully not) be there again. Good luck I really hope it all works out for you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Odds are what I have to say will likely come across as bitter. It isn't meant to be. It is based upon what I have experienced and learned from the same set of circumstances that you now face.

You have no control over her actions. You can't control whether or not she chooses to tell you the truth, you can't make her love you, you can't make her _not _ have feelings for him.

All you can do, is make decisions for you, and what you will do to manage and deal with your own pain. Consider what behavior you can, and cannot tolerate - and start thinking seriously about what you want from marriage and your life. Recognize that what you want in a marriage may determine that you need a new one.

The term 'emotional affair' in many cases is a cop-out. If it is your spouse that has termed the relationship as an 'emotional affair', this is a sure-fire sign that there are already physical elements. They have contact, they embrace, they likely kiss, they spend 'physical' time together - regardless of whether they are dressed or not. But the term 'emotional affair' carries the connotation of being like a rated G affair - it's not as dirty.

However, this is the reality; your wife talks to another man about how unhappy and how unfulfilled she is with _you_. She has talked about sex with _you_ to him. There is little difference in the depth of betrayal, deception, and denial that goes on whether sex is involved or not. She's not telling you the whole truth. You may never get the whole truth.

I strongly urge therapy for yourself. If she will go to marriage counseling, great - but keep in mind where her head is at. Right now, she is invested in the new relationship - not the marriage. 

You should insist that she leave the house, for a week - month, whatever. If she has the expectation that you should leave the home while she is conducting an affair - you are enabling her. Actions have consequences. 

Take care of yourself. See friends and family. Ride a bike. Go to the gym. Architect world peace. It doesn't matter. Do something, other than ruminate on what you wish your wife would do - instead of what she is doing. Keep a journal, post here.

Be prepared for the worst. Don't hope for the best until you have a realistic idea of what 'best' constitutes.


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

voivod said:


> she is just now starting to question her reasons for separating. chances are you wife will too, once the newness of separation wears off.
> 
> hang in there. be a prince, her knight in shining armor. then reel it in. watch her react to what she'll be missing. timing is everything. there's nothing wrong with using the info you now have to tip the timing question in your favor.
> 
> think "WIN." she's YOUR wife. not this new goofs.



thanks, thats encouraging. however i suspect that this is going to be bitter either way, thus destroying our friendship or whatever is left of it at this point. its hard to have hope for us when i've seen what i've seen and heard her say. the depression is just getting to be ridiculous. 

i tried another type of sleep aid last night instead of benadryl. i only had to take 2 to sleep for about 4 hours, which is better than 3 hours with 6 benadryl. thats the only progress i'm seeing in my life right now


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

atholk, good advice about sex. i will stick to that in the future. 


deejo, if anyone leaves, its her. i'm staying put. if we divorce this is my house, i literally built this house myself from the ground up and i'll be damned if there is another man under my roof. not happening. thanks for the advice

goldfish, i really feel for your situation. its nice to know i'm not alone in this. honestly i was shocked to see so many similar stories to mine. why do women do this to us


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## goldfish14 (Oct 18, 2009)

Women do this because they can. Sadly it is a numbers game. Trust me if you went out and it was 3 girls to one guy, I truly believe it would be very different. The laws also don't help, they generally favor women in a divorce, particularly if there are kids involved. Plus women are wired differently and because of this we may not always understand their needs or emotions (my situation). Even if their needs or emotions are to us unreasonable or crazy, they are real to them and if we don't meet them or address them appropriately then kaboom.


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## outinthecold (Apr 30, 2009)

First thing you learn in sales is: "Win the argument loose the sale"

No gimmicks will work, there are plenty out there, don't waste your money on any of these, they don't work.

Counseling is another one of those things that just does not work for couples.

When the EMOTIONAL BOND is gone, everything that ever irritated her about you will be revisited in her mind. Absolutely everything, pimples, the way you chew, your laugh, your gut, your style, your haircut, feet smell, your laundry, your _ _ _ (fill in the blank) and these things will build up in her mind until you pop out at the top as the cause and she has to get rid of it. 

Only a crisis of some kind will bring it back. Hokey as it sounds, movies portray crisis/Love all the time.

Disaster, death, zombies, car crash, savior you name it Hollywood has portrayed crisis/love.

Short of that, no amount of convincing, logic, selflessness will bring her back.

You have to move on, counseling for yourself is powerful, talking to a stranger can elevate a lot of pain. Keeping a journal.

My only advice that I have followed these last painful seven(7) months is:

Love yourself, get plenty of rest, work out, eat well, go out with friends, talk, talk talk, wear your friends out, concentrate on yourself, above all wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a very long time before attempting another relationship. Otherwise you will chew her up for all her emotional worth.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i'm sorry for the trouble in your marriage and the pain it's causing you.

i know firsthand how you're feeling, i remember all too well.

first, a minor point, but a point worth making: the other guy is really pissing on you by calling your wife when she's at her house with you.

that has to stop. now.

it's not about love or in love or not in love, it's about common decency and respect for the man she married and respect for her marriage.

you'll find great solace and hope in counseling. 

counseling will clarify whether the marriage is worth saving and what you and she must do to become strong enough to face what's coming either together or seperately.

understand there's a very good chance the therapist will tell your wife she has to stop seeing this other guy if the marriage is to move forward, and i doubt she's in a place to hear that right now.

i hope things work out well for you.

as for me, i decided early on, in therapy, that i didn't abide broken trust very well and moved on.

and life is very good.
:bounce::toast::bounce:


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> i'm sorry for the trouble in your marriage and the pain it's causing you.
> 
> i know firsthand how you're feeling, i remember all too well.
> 
> ...


thanks for the post, thats very good advice.

good point by him calling her in my house. i made that point to her last night. i started to take command in these little spats. i told her there is no way in hell she is to call or text or facebook message him or him do the same to her inside the house i built. she said she would go outside, i told her stand in the middle of the road cause i dont even want it on my property at all. i told her if he does this its him spitting directly in my eye as well as her. 

she swore it wouldnt happen again and i'll make sure it doesnt. 

right now she has no respect for me with her actions, i'll bring that up tonight. 

i scored big points i think by saying that i am going to counseling regardless even if we divorce. i told her i have things i need to work on in order to better myself for the future to make sure this doesnt happen with someone else. i suspect that really hit home with her. for the first time she realized i wasnt gonna sit around and wait for her to grow tired of her emotional crutch and come running home. 

i've come to realize she has an emotional co-dependancy. she cant stand to not visit her parents very often. IMO if your an adult and you cant go an extended period of time without seeing your parents and it affects your everyday behavior there is something wrong. she was codependant on me. obviously we did everything together, seldom apart other than work. this was wearing of, parents arent around, so she needs to be codependant on someone else. theres the EA saying what she wants to hear. if she divorces she will be walking into another codependancy and not learn a thing. i refuse to take that path. and that explains the difference between us i guess. i've always been a pretty independant guy


btw i'm glad your happy. its good to hear some success stories


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

FG,

I am 46 - have two daughters and pretty high standards. I have to tell you that if this doesn't work out - you are going to have lots of other options. The amount of class you are showing in a terrible, awful situation is really incredible. I seriously question whether your wife deserves you. You built her a house with the knowledge in your head, the skill in your hands and the passion in your heart. And she has repeatedly profaned your home with this EA. I am sure you aren't perfect - everything I read tells me you are going to end up making some other woman very very happy. 

I do have one and only one critique for you. You are too nice. Have one of your close friends help you with this. It is fixable if you focus on it. Women respond very well to nice - and they universally respond very badly to - too nice. 




FloridaGuy said:


> thanks for the post, thats very good advice.
> 
> good point by him calling her in my house. i made that point to her last night. i started to take command in these little spats. i told her there is no way in hell she is to call or text or facebook message him or him do the same to her inside the house i built. she said she would go outside, i told her stand in the middle of the road cause i dont even want it on my property at all. i told her if he does this its him spitting directly in my eye as well as her.
> 
> ...


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

thanks, those are very kind and encouraging words. of course I'm always open to criticism as well. 

when this first started i was the nice guy. i was willing to let things go cause i loved her so much. i may have been smothering her with to much of my emotion in a desperate attempt to get her back. and most of what i read here tells me that will only push her away. 

this forum has really helped me. since i've been here i've changed my attitude, i've gone on the offensive with her. i talk to my best friend about this (the only person i've told) he brings up excellent points and i write them down along with others i have thought of during the day so i can bring them up later to my wife. i dont get mad, i assertively express my points and accuse her of being uncivil as she often gets mad. and of course i have kept a journal from the very beginning

since i have forcefully changed my attitude towards things i have noticed my mental health improve. i find it easier to sleep now, although it still isnt great. 

although my new attitude probably wont help my chances of us salvaging our marriage, they will be very bad regardless, they will improve my mental health there fore i think its worth it

i owe a lot of that to my best friend who has been very helpful in this situation, and this forum

she said she was going out with this guy one more time after work to talk then she was calling it quits with him while she figures out herself. as expected we got into it again when she got home, kinda earlier than expected. i again took control of the fight. i wouldnt let her push her way around. i brought up my points and had good counters for hers (thank my journal for that). i was talking about what i had to do for myself to move on if we divorce. i said if we divorce, i'm taking the dog. there is no joint custody or any of that BS the dog is is staying with me in this house. i didnt even leave room for her to argue. we are both very attached to our dog, 5 yr old chocolate lab we adopted when she was 3. i think that told her i was serious and no longer gonna be a push over on all this. time to step up to the plate

ironically things ended civil and she actually touched me when she went to bed. amazing what a little assertiveness can do and you show your not gonna roll over and die but instead take it like a man i guess lol


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Basically if you can't stand up to her, she figures you can't stand up for her. So sometimes when you nice guy out of an argument and let her win, you actually lose because you kill her attraction to you. Sometimes when you lay down the law and deny her something, that actually sparks her attraction to you.


thats what i'm learning. 

same scenario played out tonight basically but the argument was much more civil, i took control over it and would not let her win any points. then get this, she asks for a HUG before she goes to bed! i was very shocked. but she gave me a good embrace. i dont let it get to me though, i still have very little hope for salvaging this marriage. so anyone in the future definitely listen to atholk's advice here

i feel guilty that i did this, but installed a key logger on the computer sunday night. well you know she agreed no contact with this guy for a while. the key logger says she was on his facebook page looking at his pictures. she didnt send any messages or anything, but she must have looked at 30 of his pictures. she was an maybe 10 more peoples facebook and looked at all their pictures too. i'm thinking maybe i should just let this one go?

i dont want her to question how i know this so i would have to figure out some way to randomly slip it into conversation as a gut feeling or something


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## FloridaGuy (Oct 17, 2009)

your right. i didnt bring it up. 

the relationship has kinda been stationary this week, maybe slight progress forward. 

my problem is that i think i am emotionally tapped. the last few weeks have been the toughest of my life. 

I have no motivation at work. my appetite sucks. sometimes i struggle to feel any emotion at all, and this is happening more and more. the happiest time of the day is when she comes home, how pathetic. 

on top of this i have only talked to my therapist on the phone, shes busy and i wont meet with her until wednesday. she says to fight for her, do little romantic things for her but dont smother her. i have been doing little things, with the reasoning that i am changing who i am for us, or for future relationships. i wish i had a crystal ball


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

you don't need a crystal ball.

you just need to be emotionally healthy enough to own the good that might happen and strong enough to get through the notsogood that might happen.

your best friend has betrayed you, and that's enough to spin the strongest man around and knock him flat on his ass.

i know.

rev sharpton once told me if he hit me and knocked me down, that's on him.

but if i didn't get up, that's on me.

and if i feel i just can't ever get up, if i've been hurt soo bad i don't know how i'll ever recover

then at least i can roll over and look at the sky.
:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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