# Me and my husband need advice on how to handle Husband's Infidelity. Both will post h



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Hi! I am the Betrayed Spouse but my wayward spouses will be posting under this topic as well. We both need insight on how to come to an understanding on full disclosure. Here is from my perspective. We will talk freely here.

We started a relationship in December of 2013. We married quickly in January of 2014. In December of 2013, he slept with another girl and flirted with a Co worker for a few weeks too, trying to have sex with her as well. 

Somewhere around October of 2014, he had an affair with a Co worker that lasted until, no later than June of 2015. We found out I was pregnant in April of 2015. 

She contacted me, to tell me about the affair, in a very vicious way on Facebook. D day was April 16th of 2016. 

Since then, he has trickle truthed me about the affair, flirting with several girls over the course of our marriage and about the girl he slept with in our first month of our relationship. He has also confessed to watching porn our entire relationship, behind my back. He even lied about what type he was looking at. 

He says they did not have sex, the sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot:
If she was in his truck
What attracted him to her
Why he felt he loved her
When it started
When it ended
How it ended
What they talked about
If he put his fingers inside of her 
And much more

He gets irritated when I ask him to talk to me about the affair and give me the answers and full disclosure. He gets annoyed about the polygraph test and says they are not to be trusted and he does not believe in them. 

I will now let him weigh in, IF he is truly wanting to save this marriage, he will participate.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

What is wrong with you?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

What do you mean?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

What can he say? He didn't even have time to come out of the honeymoon phase. The guy is a dog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> What do you mean?


He means, gtfo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> What do you mean?





Jacksgirl37 said:


> We started a relationship in December of 2013. We married quickly in January of 2014.


This!



Jacksgirl37 said:


> In December of 2013, he slept with another girl and flirted with a Co worker for a few weeks too, trying to have sex with her as well.


And that!



Jacksgirl37 said:


> Somewhere around October of 2014, he had an affair with a Co worker that lasted until, no later than June of 2015.


Plus this!

Nuts!


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

We are trying to work on our marriage. He is in counseling and so am I. We are doing an online couples course as well and getting back into marriage counseling. He lied to our first one, did not speak at our second one. Hopefully third time is a charm. 

His polygraph showed inconclusive on 3 questions and deception on the other one. 

I have asked him to take another one. He says he will but believes they are bull crap tests and he does not trust them. 

He is very loving to me except when it comes to anything about the affair. He says it was to boost his ego, he liked the attention but that I boosted his ego too and gave him plenty of attention. He says that he does not want to talk about the affair because he does not have the answers I seek and it makes him feel like I am attacking him or thinking he is a monster. He gets very defensive when his flaws are pointed out.

I love him, but I need him to "get it" and start being honest.


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## Ckone1800 (Jul 13, 2015)

I do not typically post advice here, as I am no expert. 

However, you have got to know that without full disclosure there will be no complete healing for Jacksgirl37. 

If your story is true, there is no excuse for Sallysman not to recall what happened during the affair. He was loving it, and people tend to remember the best and worst times of their lives. 

To fix your marriage you will have to be willing to lose it. At this stage I do not think you would be giving up much of it did end, as Jacksgirl is simply going through the torment of the unknown. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.


What would you tell your sister? I get it that tbis is you, and you want to imagine you are a good guy and all. But what do you expect given the information she put out.

How can you want to save a marriage that never existed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Thank you. I have told him this until I am blue in the face. But his answer is always, "I simply just don't have the answers for you". When I tell him that he is the only one who believes that, he says "No one knows me or what goes on in my head. How can they say I am lying when they are not me". Jack, want to weigh in on this?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@Sallysman21 I think you should tell @Jacksgirl37 nothing at all and tell her to put up with it and get over it. Since as you already know she repeatedly tolerates such behaviour.

@Jacksgirl37 I think you should stop deluding yourself, wake up and dump @Sallysman21 as soon as you read these words. Oh and don't ever again marry anyone within two months or less of dating them.

@Jacksgirl37 you are fooling yourself if you think he's going to stop f**ing other women.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Personal said:


> @Sallysman21 I think you should tell @Jacksgirl37 nothing at all and tell her to put up with it and get over it. Since as you already know she repeatedly tolerates such behaviour.
> 
> @Jacksgirl37 I think you should stop deluding yourself, wake up and dump @Sallysman21 as soon as you read these words. Oh and don't ever again marry anyone within two months or less of dating them.
> 
> @Jacksgirl37 Since you don't seem to want to do the best thing you could possibly do I think you should get over yourself and put up with his having sex with whoever else wants to have sex with him.


He says they never had sex. That part came back inconclusive on the polygraph. 

I don't want him to have sex with anyone else.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.


EXACTLY right, you AREN'T here for judgement.

YOU sir, are looking for the quickest and easiest way for this current round of scrutiny to disappear so you can quietly go back to your old ways. 

If you really want help, you will at least need to tell us what it is you think you are saving. What is it you want. AND BE HONEST. We can smell BS a mile off here.

Perhaps start by listing your top 10 things you want in your marriage.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I gotta imagine that jacksgirl is intentionally asking rhetorical questions so she can shove it in his face. Please tell me you are shoving his face into your screen and saying "*****, you know you lied. Be a man and fess up!" Or something like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?


Dude, the details don't matter. 

Are you trying to distract your wife from the real conversation on purpose?

It's ALL cheating and it is black and white infidelity.

Just being in a car with another stranger is something that any man who has even the smallest ounce of respect for his woman would not do.

You sound like a real douch.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

spinsterdurga said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?
> ...


I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I gotta imagine that jacksgirl is intentionally asking rhetorical questions so she can shove it in his face. Please tell me you are shoving his face into your screen and saying "*****, you know you lied. Be a man and fess up!" Or something like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I letting him plead the case he pleads to me, his therapist, friends and family. Let him get some input on his way of thinking.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?


Then I don't think anyone can help you, since it looks like you want to be a victim.

Good luck or not...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Hi! I am the Betrayed Spouse but my wayward spouses will be posting under this topic as well. We both need insight on how to come to an understanding on full disclosure. Here is from my perspective. We will talk freely here.
> 
> We started a relationship in December of 2013. We married quickly in January of 2014. In December of 2013, he slept with another girl and flirted with a Co worker for a few weeks too, trying to have sex with her as well.
> 
> ...


I don't even need to hear from your husband you can do better.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

My take on this is going to be a little different from most people's. Honestly no judgement, I am in no position to judge others. 

He engaged in some form of intimacy with more than one other woman early in your relationship and marriage. Unless there was some very specific reason he did it, and that reason has gone away, I would assume he will do so again. I think this is true, even if he is honestly remorseful now. Whatever enticed him to cheat will happen again.

She needs to decide if she wants to stay in a marriage with someone who will be intimate with other women again. They can work out rules, which he might be willing to follow, but I think she should only stay if she is willing to accept his behavior. 

He is at fault. She gets to decide what she wants, but for both of their happiness, they should not stay to together on the assumption that he will not cheat again - he will.


No blame, I have not walked a hundred miles in his moccasins, I do not know the situation - but I don't need to know. 

I wish you both well, but maybe not together.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Again, if you are only going to be condescending or rude to my wife, then move on to another thread. I'm not making excuses for my behavior or my actions. I have seriously damaged my wife and our marriage and now I'm just doing whatever I can to help her heal and save it.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

This all sounds awfully familiar.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?


Mate, they were some of your most memorable moments in your life and you know it.

Fingers deep in a stranger in a car park. It probably doesn't get more exciting for you than that.

And again, it is a distraction from the simple fact that you cheated.

Why is it you can't accept this as a black and white thing. Because it is to the betrayed.

To the betrayed, finding out that your partner cheated in any way TOTALLY ERASES ALL TRUST. Your claims become totally irrelevant at that very moment.

Get it?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I letting him plead the case he pleads to me, his therapist, friends and family. Let him get some input on his way of thinking.


OMG, seriously!

Wait until the flamers get here.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Are your ages 21 and 37? What is the money situation? Who is the breadwinner?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> Again, if you are only going to be condescending or rude to my wife, then move on to another thread. I'm not making excuses for my behavior or my actions. I have seriously damaged my wife and our marriage and now I'm just doing whatever I can to help her heal and save it.


How chivalrous of you, didn't stop you when you were with other women though. Guys like you embarrass me as a man. I will probably get banned again for saying this but you are so weak. "I just doing whatever I can to help her save it." You got a kid, what's wrong with you! Why don't you save it! In life so far you are a big fat failure.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> Again, if you are only going to be condescending or rude to my wife, then move on to another thread. I'm not making excuses for my behavior or my actions. I have seriously damaged my wife and our marriage and now I'm just doing whatever I can to help her heal and save it.


Fine with me, this thread is a façade at best designed to fool your wife into allowing even more cake eating.

Well played sir. You have tricked your wife once more.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Are your ages 21 and 37? What is the money situation? Who is the breadwinner?


No. Those are our favorite numbers combined. My wayward husband has all the money. I have 0 access to any of it. He never wanted me to work.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.
> ...


I want to have a healthier and stronger marriage
I want to spend my life with my wife
I want to be able to see her truly happy and enjoy life again
I want us to be able to watch our family grow together
I want to be loved and feel trusted again by my wife
I want us to be able to live our dreams together
I want to be able to provide for her and know that I am the man that she deserves
I want to be able to love and cherish her and for her to feel that from me unconditionally
I want for us to be able to make a lifetimes worth of happy memories together
I want her to be able to feel safe with me again and feel that I deserve her


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

sokillme said:


> How chivalrous of you, didn't stop you when you were with other women though. Guys like you embarrass me as a man. I will probably get banned again for saying this but you are so weak. "I just doing whatever I can to help her save it." You got a kid, what's wrong with you! Why don't you save it! In life so far you are a big fat failure.


Lol, wait till @bandit.45 gets here....


I can't wait.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> No. Those are our favorite numbers combined. My wayward husband has all the money. I have 0 access to any of it. He never wanted me to work.


Favorite numbers? MmmmmK


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> No. Those are our favorite numbers combined. My wayward husband has all the money. I have 0 access to any of it. He never wanted me to work.


It gets better and better. Has he isolated you from your friends and family as well?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> I want to have a healthier and stronger marriage
> I want to spend my life with my wife
> I want to be able to see her truly happy and enjoy life again
> I want us to be able to watch our family grow together
> ...


Step one, be honest with her, and with yourself. Admit what you are.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Zero access????
Waaaahaahaaa. It gets better!!!
This guy is a genius!


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> I want to have a healthier and stronger marriage
> I want to spend my life with my wife
> I want to be able to see her truly happy and enjoy life again
> I want us to be able to watch our family grow together
> ...


You're a smart guy. I'll give you that. 

Ok, here's one for you - When you about to cheat on your wife, why is it that you don't care about how much you are hurting her? It's a choice you are consciously making to hurt her.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

OK, Jackiesgirl and Sally's Man

No one here knows enough to be totally judge mental here, but at this point Sallysman, I hope you can accept the fact that you are not the "hero" here. You have been unfaithful multiple times and that officially makes you a bonfire serial cheater.
Right now, JackiesGirl, you need to accept that the "why" is an elusive and sometimes impossible question to get an answer to. People spend years chasing that one.

The big question is what can your husband do to restore some trust and become a safe partner. It has to start Sallysman with the following
(1) NO CONTACT AT ALL WITH ANYO F THE WOMEN
(2) Transparancy of every electronic device you own. You have forfeited your right to any privacy.
(3) IC for him to find out if anything in his childhood or family has caused him to need to have this ego boost of cheating
(4) I do not believe MC is right now until the two of you go for a period of time where wifey can verify the hubby is not at it again.
(5) Sallysman, you can write off boys night out, hanging out with your buddies in coed situations like bars, and you better be able to account for where you are. It's called consequences my friend and to date you have incurred none. 
(6) Jackiesgirl, your husband does NOT GET TO CALL THE SHOTS HERE. YOU GET TO SET THE RULES AND if he wants to save your marriage, he kisses your ass to thank you for offering him the gift of reconciliation.
(7) Sallysman, you also do not get to dictate what you will discuss with your wife. You answer ALL OF HER QUESTIONS, when she wants answers, and save the bull **** about not telling her the details because you do not want to hurt her more. You write a written timeline of every one of these affairs so that you cannot change the story in the future. 
YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE SEX IS NOT WHAT CAUSES THE DIVORCE IN MANY CASES. It is the lying and deceit that continues.

You two have a LONG road to go ,and it takes 100% committment from BOTH of you. And it is not a straight line sprint without bumps.

B ut it all starts with HONEST TRUTHFUL COMMUNICATION , not you Sallsman refusing to talk about what you do not want to talk about.

People have recovered from much worse and have divorced from much less. But it depends on the cheater being willing to do the heavy lifting. The problems in your marriage are owned 50% by both of you

Sallysman, YOU OWN THE CHEATING 100% and if you think you are going to call the shots the Las Vegas odds I am sure will give you very little chance to new married much longer.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

When a person has cheated on their partner they have no say so what so ever on how long it takes them to stop asking questions, it takes a long time to get over being cheated on and most marriages do not last.

To the cheating husband: your wife has the right to ask you any questions about the affair when and how she wants, if you want to save your marriage you need to be honest with her. Stop trying to rug sweep your affair/s it will only make it worse. If you want to save the marriage then you should be willing to take a lie detector test until she is satisfied. You also do not get to decide when you have answered all her questions, she is the one that gets to decide that. You also need to encourage your wife to get STD test. Getting over an affair takes years not weeks or month and not 1 or 10 therapy sessions. You damaged your marriage and your partner so you have to go above and beyond. I hope you are no longer working with the affair person, because one step is to quite your job or the sl^t quit hers.

To the wife: Getting over being cheating on is a hard road to take, you are looking at years to trust your husband again if at all. He needs to be completely open with you, and have no passwords on any devices also account for his where abouts at all times. Personally if I was you I would leave, he messed up early on in your relationship there is a high chance very high that he will do this again, if you let him get away with rug sweeping and you do not bring it out in the open to friends and family you are liable to be one of us that could not get over it, and would not put up with the cheating and lying. Believe me a cheater will lie and lie tell you what you want to hear. Does he even show remorse at all for his lying and cheating? what has he done thus far to help you move on past this?


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

I Have an extremely low self esteem; so much to the point that I can't even list off 5 positive things that I truly believe and value about myself. So getting the attention and ego boost from the other girl, along with what I was already getting from my wife, gave me a false sense that I wasn't as terrible as I believe myself to be. Trying to fill that void left from my lack of self esteem is like trying to fill up a cup with a broken bottom and it just becomes empty again. That's what happens when you try to fill an internal void externally instead of realizing what your actual issue is and addressing it healthily and appropriately. Instead of dealing with my issues internally, I tried to fix the problem with external influences. In doing so however, obviously only solidified the fact that I am a terrible person and I rightfully so have no reason why I should value myself. I don't use this as an excuse or reason as to why I cheated, because obviously there is never justification for such a horrendous act. And as much as I've tried to remember the details that my wife has asked for, I just can't. The memories just aren't there.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

You would be well advised to read my recent post "Variables to consider when considering R". How many stop signs or warning signs do you recognize?

Your husband is not a good bet for reconciliation. Is a real R impossible? No, just improbable.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Sallysman,

Your self esteem issues are common in men and women. The EGO KIBBLES are part of probably every Waywards explanation. And the need for ego kibbles, or external validation, is not unique. Your problem was that you acted on the ego kibbles.

So how do you avoid doing that again??? And how do you make Jackiesgirl feel safe???

To own what you have done, you have to not look to use the reasons as excuses. Right now, my guess is that Jackiesgirls self esteem ain't too great. My guess is she could go out to a club in a nice sexy outfit and get some ego kibbles of her own. But she has not done that.

Work with your IC on how to every day make your wife feel safe from the moment you get up. There is no man or woman on earth that does not like to be complimented by someone of the opposite sex if they are heterosexual. But your crossed the boundaries and if you do it again you will be a single man probably.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I don't want him to have sex with anyone else.



Why not?

Are 37 and 21 your ages?

This was a creative approach. Both BS and WS in same thread.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> You would be well advised to read my recent post "Variables to consider when considering R". How many stop signs or warning signs do you recognize?
> 
> Your husband is not a good bet for reconciliation. Is a real R impossible? No, just improbable.


One of those on the list, I never really have addressed. My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good". 

There were quite a few stop signs. Yes. 

He no longer works at that job and he quit the job he had before D day so that we could work on our marriage. 

He says he does not remember when the last time they spoke.

He is in individual therapy and starting sexual addiction counseling. 

I took all his privacy away but he called it a punishment and I just recently gave it back. I want HIM to relinquish all privacy to help ME feel safer. Not be his warden.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?




Yes.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> I Have an extremely low self esteem; so much to the point that I can't even list off 5 positive things that I truly believe and value about myself. So getting the attention and ego boost from the other girl, along with what I was already getting from my wife, gave me a false sense that I wasn't as terrible as I believe myself to be. Trying to fill that void left from my lack of self esteem is like trying to fill up a cup with a broken bottom and it just becomes empty again. That's what happens when you try to fill an internal void externally instead of realizing what your actual issue is and addressing it healthily and appropriately. Instead of dealing with my issues internally, I tried to fix the problem with external influences. In doing so however, obviously only solidified the fact that I am a terrible person and I rightfully so have no reason why I should value myself. I don't use this as an excuse or reason as to why I cheated, because obviously there is never justification for such a horrendous act. And as much as I've tried to remember the details that my wife has asked for, I just can't. The memories just aren't there.


You know, it's hard to control how you feel sometimes, but it's not hard NOT to act on them.

Accept you can't control how you feel and work on why you feel that way but take 100% responsibility for your actions.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Sallysman,
> 
> Your self esteem issues are common in men and women. The EGO KIBBLES are part of probably every Waywards explanation. And the need for ego kibbles, or external validation, is not unique. Your problem was that you acted on the ego kibbles.
> 
> ...


My self esteem is pretty intact.  I have already had several men beg me to dump my WS and let them treat me like the Queen I am. I think my WS feels threatened by the fact that I am desired by others. Personally, I would think that would boost his ego enough. But...I guess not.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> One of those on the list, I never really have addressed. My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good".
> 
> There were quite a few stop signs. Yes.
> 
> ...


There you go @SallySman.

Your first step forward.

Hand back full transparency.

Got the guts to take one tiny step forward?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want him to have sex with anyone else.
> ...


No. Not our ages.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My self esteem is pretty intact.  I have already had several men beg me to dump my WS and let them treat me like the Queen I am. I think my WS feels threatened by the fact that I am desired by others. Personally, I would think that would boost his ego enough. But...I guess not.


Sound like pretty good options to me. I know what I'd do.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

poida said:


> OMG, seriously!
> 
> 
> 
> Wait until the flamers get here.



That is a derogatory term.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?
> ...


Can you explain further so I can get a better understanding of how one forgets details of an affair?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> I Have an extremely low self esteem; so much to the point that I can't even list off 5 positive things that I truly believe and value about myself. So getting the attention and ego boost from the other girl, along with what I was already getting from my wife, gave me a false sense that I wasn't as terrible as I believe myself to be. Trying to fill that void left from my lack of self esteem is like trying to fill up a cup with a broken bottom and it just becomes empty again. That's what happens when you try to fill an internal void externally instead of realizing what your actual issue is and addressing it healthily and appropriately. Instead of dealing with my issues internally, I tried to fix the problem with external influences. In doing so however, obviously only solidified the fact that I am a terrible person and I rightfully so have no reason why I should value myself. I don't use this as an excuse or reason as to why I cheated, because obviously there is never justification for such a horrendous act. And as much as I've tried to remember the details that my wife has asked for, I just can't. The memories just aren't there.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

And your wife buys that?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My self esteem is pretty intact.  I have already had several men beg me to dump my WS and let them treat me like the Queen I am. I think my WS feels threatened by the fact that I am desired by others. Personally, I would think that would boost his ego enough. But...I guess not.



Are you sure it's intact? Since the following suggests otherwise.



Jacksgirl37 said:


> We started a relationship in December of 2013. We married quickly in January of 2014.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Can you explain further so I can get a better understanding of how one forgets details of an affair?




I will try. It is sort of like remembering what you ate for dinner two weeks ago. You can try to remember but the details are fuzzy and you are not really sure. You can guess but probably wrong. Most likely you would fail a LD test if you dwell on the fact that you are unsure.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> No. Not our ages.




What are your ages? That matters here.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you explain further so I can get a better understanding of how one forgets details of an affair?
> ...


Are these small details or big details? 

Details I want are big. From an 8 month affair. That only ended about 14 months ago.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > No. Not our ages.
> ...


He is 29. I am 27.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Why not?
> 
> Are 37 and 21 your ages?
> 
> This was a creative approach. Both BS and WS in same thread.


Joe and I both post. So have a few other couples. Not that creative, then again, our stories aren't this elaborate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> I will try. It is sort of like remembering what you ate for dinner two weeks ago. You can try to remember but the details are fuzzy and you are not really sure. You can guess but probably wrong. Most likely you would fail a LD test if you dwell on the fact that you are unsure.


I seriously doubt that someone would "forget" sticking their digits in another person. Especially in a year time frame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Jacksgirl, 

A WS does not forget details of affairs unless the volume of affairs was so high as to make it difficult to remember.

*Your "husband" is clearly an accomplished liar.*

Do not believe any of his excuses (low self esteem etc). He fvcked other women because he could, it felt good and satisfied his lust and because he thought he could get away with it. Throw in a lack of morals and respect (forget about love) and you have a clear reason as to the "why he did it".

You have a problem: you rush into things. The period between courting and marrying and the speed with which you decided to have a baby with, what was to you, a serial cheater (and you kind of knew he wasn't husband material leave alone father material). You REALLY need to work on this.

This is not a marriage and from what I can see of Sallysman, this is not likely to be. He should be on his knees begging and actively proving his remorse. Attacking other members of TAM should be the last thing he should be doing.

You need to be seriously thinking about dumping him and walking away from this "marriage". He does not look like he is going to change.

If you really want to have even the slightest consideration of reconciliation, then he has to do quite a bit! He has to come clean and tell you the whole truth (that you already kind of know in your gut) with no trickle truthing. If he takes polygraph tests, he has to come out with conclusive answers (yes, this is down to him). He has to be completely transparent with ALL of his communications. He has to be prepared to put up with your rants for another 5 years. He is to have NO contact with other women socially without you being there. This needs to be exposed to his family and friends so that he faces the consequences of his actions from them too. He needs to sign a postnup giving you everything if you separate and divorce. And all of this with no guarantee of reconciliation. Do you think he will do this ?

Then and only then can you consider "working on your marriage". Until all of this happens, you shouldn't be in MC since it is a waste of time and money. IC yes, but MC no!

I am not going to address your husband here since he is very clearly not ready to accept criticism or real advice (I don't think he should be here but too late for that).


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't care about blame, I really don't. What I quoted from you is correct: a lack of self esteem is a bottomless pit. Different people try to fill it different ways. For you, attention from other women helps, at least temporarily. That is why I think you will continue to look for other women. Its how you are wired. 

You should be in an open marriage, your psychology won't work for a regular one. 




Sallysman21 said:


> snip
> . Trying to fill that void left from my lack of self esteem is like trying to fill up a cup with a broken bottom and it just becomes empty again.
> snip
> .


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Can you explain further so I can get a better understanding of how one forgets details of an affair?


Lol. So it is. Not what i thought it was.
It's not a word we use in Australia.
Retracted.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> Jacksgirl,
> 
> A WS does not forget details of affairs unless the volume of affairs was so high as to make it difficult to remember.
> 
> ...


He said he was mad for people attacking me.

Honestly, I do not think he would be ever willing to do everything on that list. 

Am I wrong Sallysman (hubbs)????


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?





Sallysman21 said:


> Again, if you are only going to be condescending or rude to my wife, then move on to another thread. *I'm not making excuses for my behavior or my actions.* I have seriously damaged my wife and our marriage and now I'm just doing whatever I can to help her heal and save it.


Ok you two love birds, lets assume I'm buying into "your problems". JG, twenty odd years ago I was a male escort and I can remember details about some of my clients, so hell no he hasn't forgot. He just doesn't want to tell you probably to cover his azz by not wanting you to know the extent of his involvement. And in part keeping you from being more discussed and hurt.

SM, you're full of shyt. Your follow-up post about a low self esteem was nothing but making excuses. You're basically a c*ck hound. If you don't want to hurt her any more, quit chasing bush or cut her loose if you can't quit doing any chick that will let you. 
I agree that a low self esteem will cause a man to try and prove himself. But it don't work. Besides, think how low your self esteem's going to be when your actions lower her interest in you to the point where she ditches you for one of the guys that's already telling her what a catch she is? She's already noticing them noticing her.
Oh, forget about restoring trust. If its every done that light years away even if you walk the line from here on out.

Now a question for ya'll. What was it about your whirlwind romance that made you think it'd be a marriage made in heaven?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I don't care about blame, I really don't. What I quoted from you is correct: a lack of self esteem is a bottomless pit. Different people try to fill it different ways. For you, attention from other women helps, at least temporarily. That is why I think you will continue to look for other women. Its how you are wired.
> 
> You should be in an open marriage, your psychology won't work for a regular one.
> 
> ...


This is what I fear as well. He says that, "now that he knows why he had the affair, he is now working on those issues in therapy so that he won't fall back on bad behaviors". 

His therapist told him something today about "the questions your wife are asking are simplistic and you won't be able to answer them or find the answers because all of this is far deeper and rooted to your past."

I'm not sure how his past can make him forget why he was attracted to this girl. 

He flirted with a lot of girls. Why only the one affair?

If he gets his ego boost by having affairs, why not have many? If it was not about "her" Then why 8 months? What was it that made him stay that long? Why not dump her and move onto another for a higher, new thrill?

I highly doubt if she was a 400lb 70 year old with no personality and no intellect that he would have chosen her. 

Plus. Right after D day, I asked if he thought she was thinner and prettier than me. He said yes. Later when I told him how messed up that was, he claims he only said it because he thought I would not listen to anything else.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

He's already started another thread. He's not liking what he is hearing on this one. 

You're young @Jacksgirl37, move on to a better life. 

I don't see anything to save here.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> This is what I fear as well. He says that, "now that he knows why he had the affair, he is now working on those issues in therapy so that he won't fall back on bad behaviors".
> 
> His therapist told him something today about "the questions your wife are asking are simplistic and you won't be able to answer them or find the answers because all of this is far deeper and rooted to your past."
> 
> ...


All that therapy cr*p is a load of rubbish.

The guy enjoys f*cking other women and knows you will put up with it. It's that simple. He will say absolutely anything to get away with it and to continue it.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?
> ...


He claims he only had sex with one girl in our first month of relationship. He says he did not have sex with the girl he had the 8 month affair with. 

As far as the marriage. We started a relationship in December 2013, did a hand fasting ritual (for my religious beliefs) in January 2014. Legal marriage was October of 2015.

I did not find out about ANY of this; the cheating, lying, affair, flirting, porn...until April of this year. He never went out with friends. He was always with me, except for at work, and treated me like I was everything to him.

I had NO CLUE. None.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Again, he says he did not have sex with the girl he had the 8 month affair with.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Plus. Right after D day, I asked if he thought she was thinner and prettier than me. He said yes. Later when I told him how messed up that was, he claims he only said it because he thought I would not listen to anything else.


You struck gold when you found him. If somebody introduced you to him, I think if I were you I'd have to kill them.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It is possible to forget things, but its also possible to lie. There is no reliable way to tell the difference. 

In this case I don't think it matters. Is it really different if he had one affair or several? Does it matter what sort of sexual activities he engaged in?

If he was having a multi-month affair, then there was something about the woman that attracted him. It could be appearance, personality etc, but its just as likely that she was able to temporally fill the hole in his self esteem. 

If you said "I know he might cheat again, but I can live with that", then I might suggest that you stay together. OTOH, if you are going to spend the rest of your life wondering, but never knowing for sure if he is cheating again, then divorce.

In the end, it is entirely your decision. 




Jacksgirl37 said:


> This is what I fear as well. He says that, "now that he knows why he had the affair, he is now working on those issues in therapy so that he won't fall back on bad behaviors".
> 
> His therapist told him something today about "the questions your wife are asking are simplistic and you won't be able to answer them or find the answers because all of this is far deeper and rooted to your past."
> 
> ...


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Again, he says he did not have sex with the girl he had the 8 month affair with.


Now come on. If you are going to be serious here, take yourself seriously. Tell me how that can be possible.

Even ignoring what he would do, what woman is going to stuff around for 8 months without taking the next step. Would you?

Let's get real here. He was screwing her and there were probably more. To entertain otherwise would be irresponsible of me.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, he says he did not have sex with the girl he had the 8 month affair with.
> ...


Sallysman??? You answer this one. Tell them what you told me.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

@Jacksgirl37, I really can't believe this. 
You are actually facilitating his lies.
I'm out. This is a waste of time.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, he says he did not have sex with the girl he had the 8 month affair with.
> ...


The other girl was also married. And apparently was going on with multiple people. We never had sex because we never put in the effort to make the time or privacy for it. As the affair was carried out primarily through an app where we talked and the only time we physically spent together was right outside of the workplace for 10-15 at most before I clocked in. So no, we didn't have sex.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> @Jacksgirl37, I really can't believe this.
> You are actually facilitating his lies.
> I'm out. This is a waste of time.


He can explain his side of things better than me. I get confused with all the versions of "the truth".


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Several have told him that one way he could build trust back is to willingly, on his own, say, "I have not earned my privacy back, neither your trust. I am willingly letting you take back my privacy to take a step towards your trusting me". But has he???? Nope! And I bet he won't either. He will play dumb like he didn't know, even though I mentioned it too. And why? Because he wants to cheat again. I'm not dumb. Just FYI


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Nuts!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Several have told him that one way he could build trust back is to willingly, on his own, say, "I have not earned my privacy back, neither your trust. I am willingly letting you take back my privacy to take a step towards your trusting me". But has he???? Nope! And I bet he won't either. He will play dumb like he didn't know, even though I mentioned it too. And why? Because he wants to cheat again. I'm not dumb. Just FYI


Wow! Just wow! You know this and you still continue with him?!?!?!

He even told you that the POSOW was thinner and prettier (whatever bull$h!t reason he gave for saying this) and you still continue with him?!?!? 

Are you afraid of raising your baby alone ? Is this why ?

He is refusing to give you full transparency which is the first step (never mind all the other things on my list) - that in itself is enough to walk away!

Jacksgirl you should become Sallysgirl and walk away now - no question or doubt!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> No. Those are our favorite numbers combined. My wayward husband has all the money. I have 0 access to any of it. He never wanted me to work.


Sally, I think you will find that the courts will allow you access to at least 50% of Jack's money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> I Have an extremely low self esteem; so much to the point that I can't even list off 5 positive things that I truly believe and value about myself. So getting the attention and ego boost from the other girl, along with what I was already getting from my wife, gave me a false sense that* I wasn't as terrible as I believe myself to be.* Trying to fill that void left from my lack of self esteem is like trying to fill up a cup with a broken bottom and it just becomes empty again. That's what happens when you try to fill an internal void externally instead of realizing what your actual issue is and addressing it healthily and appropriately. Instead of dealing with my issues internally, I tried to fix the problem with external influences. In doing so however, obviously only solidified the fact that I am a terrible person and I rightfully so have no reason why I should value myself. I don't use this as an excuse or reason as to why I cheated, because obviously there is never justification for such a horrendous act. And as much as I've tried to remember the details that my wife has asked for, I just can't. The memories just aren't there.


Sadly the truth is that you are not as bad as you thought you were. You are, in fact, *far, far worse than you thought you were.*

But! That's good, because now you know how bad you have been and how bad you can be, you can guard against being that bad in the future.

Name one good, positive thing in your life?

I can name two.

1) Sally is in your life.
2) She wants to reconcile with you, even though you cheated on her.

You need counselling for whatever serious (and they are probably pretty serious, including your ability to block out painful memories) issues that brought you to cheat on your wife multiple times.

It might be worth seeing a psychiatrist rather than just seeing someone with qualifications in counselling or might not be fully qualified as a psychologist.

Psychiatrists are also MDs and, unlike counsellors or psychologists, they can prescribe medication should this be required.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Jacksgirl,

You just stated that you believe he wants to cheat again. Well, if that is true, your reconciliation is going no where until he convinces you otherwise through ACTIONS, not WORDS.

This stuff about him forgetting the details is why he needs to write them down, and he should have a deadline to do this. The story cannot be constantly changing or it becomes trickle truth.

The explanation about 8 months and not having sex because they could not find the time is pretty far out. If this OW was banging other men and not your hiusband , which he stated, why on earth would he stick around that long????? You can answer that one Sallysman! This OW must have been some piece of ass to stand in line that long trying.

Lastly, Jacksgirl, if you want your husband to become safe for you, you also need to make sure that you are not throwing up in his face these other men who are urging you to dump him. Him knowing you are actively engaging in personal conversations about your relationship with other men who obviously want in your pants is not the way to make him feel it is worthwhile to put in the effort. And I will advise you that having what is called a revenge affair will in all likelihood doom your marriage at this point and will not make you "even". It will allow Sallysman to call it even and explain nothing to you.

If I were you two, I would also sign the documents to let all therapists involved discuss your situation with both of you. It appears that each IC could be getting a somewhat different story and therefore dolling out different advice.

Sallysman, you need to list to her EXACTLY how you intend on overcoming your self esteem issues, or at least keeping your zipper zipped while you work on it.

And Jacksgirl, you need to STOP the conversations with men who just want to get you in bed about your problems with your husband. That is like putting blood in the water with sharks and don't fool yourself, these other guys are not Prince Charming who want to take you on a magic carpet ride.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Several have told him that one way he could build trust back is to willingly, on his own, say, "I have not earned my privacy back, neither your trust. I am willingly letting you take back my privacy to take a step towards your trusting me". But has he???? Nope! And I bet he won't either. He will play dumb like he didn't know, even though I mentioned it too. And why? Because he wants to cheat again. I'm not dumb. Just FYI


And if he did give it back to you, he can go underground with a burner phone you would never know anything about it....

Edit.. And why not have access to the money, He is hiding something if he is not letting you see the accounts .. IMO..


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.


So it is difficult to understand that you came here for advice to save the marriage. Aside from the obvious question, what marriage? You were barely married when you were fooling around. You know what to do. You know not to lie to your counselors, not to lie to your wife. If you want to be "married" while still eating your cake, no one here is going to tell you how to do that.

As for why she would want to stay married to you, I cannot imagine.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

pidge70 said:


> I seriously doubt that someone would "forget" sticking their digits in another person. Especially in a year time frame.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Sleeping around is not a big deal for many people. So they don't remember the dates, the details, or even names. You are looking at this from your point of view so that is why you do not understand.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Sleeping around is not a big deal for many people. So they don't remember the dates, the details, or even names. You are looking at this from your point of view so that is why you do not understand.


My point of view is the only one I have. I stand by my statement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He can explain his side of things better than me. I get confused with all the versions of "the truth".


*So does he.*


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> *So does he.*




So do we


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Several have told him that one way he could build trust back is to willingly, on his own, say, "I have not earned my privacy back, neither your trust. I am willingly letting you take back my privacy to take a step towards your trusting me". But has he???? Nope! And I bet he won't either. He will play dumb like he didn't know, even though I mentioned it too. And why? Because he wants to cheat again. I'm not dumb. Just FYI


Marriage is a union of two people making a vow of commitment, a promise and resolve to keep it. Otherwise, you are strangers and nothing more.

Since his promises were empty and he is not sincere in his resolve to keep them, there is no commitment. The union was formed under false-pretense and for all intents and purposes, not real. Other than the piece of paper you signed, YOU ARE NOT REALLY MARRIED. There is no relationship and nothing to save.

What is it that makes you want to believe that what you have here can be called a marriage? Did you grow up in a household where such a relationship was an acceptable substitute for an actual matrimony?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?


Ok, I will answer this with yes AND no.

Yes, he could forget HOW MANY times he hooked up with her, in any way. 

However, no, he would NOT forget whether certain things happened or not, even once. He would not forget if she was ever in his truck. He would not forget if he stuck ANY part of himself inside her. 

And, I am sorry, but 10-15 minutes before starting work? As much as he wishes to brush it away as "impossible", it is VERY possible to have a quickie in that time. 

Now, @Sallysman21, if you want to help her heal, give her back access to your accounts/devices. And don't whine if she feels the need to check them. Do NOT delete anything. Start with that, if you are TRULY serious about reconciliation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm wondering what ole Sallysman's (assuming Sally is the wife which at this point I'm not sure) does for a living. My guess is he's a telemarketer, politician, or lobbyist.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Good grief I wish you people would keep it to one thread. You're not going to get helpful answers from anyone by starting new threads that don't supply all the info!

And just FYI - this board isn't policed like others - you can ask that only certain people post to your threads, but you're going to get everyone posting whatever they feel like posting.

Now, as to your problem: Sally, you sound really desperate. This man has proven he's a douche. You are going to regret staying with him. I will not call it reconciling because that will not be what you do. You may stay married, but you won't have a real marriage because he is not able to control his urges. I hope you see the light and divorce him STAT.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> I'm wondering what ole Sallysman's (assuming Sally is the wife which at this point I'm not sure) does for a living. My guess is he's a telemarketer, politician, or lobbyist.


Sallyman is the husband. Jacksgirl is the wife.


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## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Can you explain further so I can get a better understanding of how one forgets details of an affair?




Yes. It's a mental block called "denial." "If I pretend it didn't happen, then everything will be fine." 
Been there, done that. It doesn't work. Marital problems are like mold or rot: address it now or address it later. The longer you wait the worse it gets. 

The very best question your husband can ask is "What do I do now?" Then he can swallow his pride and do it what it takes.


As for you, you have some decisions to make. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Ugh, am I the only one getting a migraine from this thread?

Wife- Divorce him.

Husband- Stay single.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I am asking a serious question. Are any of you wayward spouses and have you forgotten details?


You are in love with this man. You want to believe this man. You so dearly hold on to anything, anything, at all to believe him.

Dear, no. Waywards always remember. I am sorry for you.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

How about he pretends not to be having multiple affairs for the rest of your lives and you pretend to believe him? Nothing I would ever choose. But it seems easier than this since, J, you clearly won't see that he is never stopping but won't grant yourself the dignity of finding someone to be faithful to you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He is 29. I am 27.


I'm sorry but it is only fair that others here know that you have another account and that in that account you said that your husband is 21. Here is the thread where you said that.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/336937-wayward-husband-amnesia-affair-5.html


From the last date on that thread, it looks like you got caught up in the mass password change, so you created another account as many people have done.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Sallysman21 said:


> The other girl was also married. And apparently was going on with multiple people. We never had sex because we never put in the effort to make the time or privacy for it. As the affair was carried out primarily through an app where we talked and the only time we physically spent together was right outside of the workplace for 10-15 at most before I clocked in. So no, we didn't have sex.


How do you know you never had sex if you can't remember any of the details?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Several have told him that one way he could build trust back is to willingly, on his own, say, "I have not earned my privacy back, neither your trust. I am willingly letting you take back my privacy to take a step towards your trusting me". But has he???? Nope! And I bet he won't either. He will play dumb like he didn't know, even though I mentioned it too. And why? Because he wants to cheat again. I'm not dumb. Just FYI


If you aren't dumb then you would cut him loose toot sweet. I suggest a hand uncoupling ceremony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

sorry, unless you were utterly sh!t-faced from drinking too much - doubtful since you supposedly only saw her at work - then you would remember the details.

You were predisposed to cheat, you did that when you first met your wife. To carry on for 8 months, and not do ANYTHING? No BJs? Digital penetration? Nothing? Not buying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry but it is only fair that others here know that you have another account and that in that account you said that your husband is 21. Here is the thread where you said that.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/336937-wayward-husband-amnesia-affair-5.html
> 
> ...


Jacksgirl ?????


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> Jacksgirl ?????


Yep


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Sallysman21 said:


> In doing so however, obviously only solidified the fact that I am a terrible person and I rightfully so have no reason why I should value myself. I don't use this as an excuse or reason as to why I cheated, because obviously there is never justification for such a horrendous act. And as much as I've tried to remember the details that my wife has asked for, I just can't. The memories just aren't there.


Back in the 1990's, I cheated a few times on a couple of girlfriends. I was in my twenties and suddenly somewhat popular with women for the first time. During high school and first year of college, I was tall and skinny and a bit shy, so I never had a date. My first girlfriend left me after three years to be wild and free, so my confidence was pretty smashed. 

Therefore, when I matured and could get dates, it was a rush. I had heard so many times growing up how popular guys would talk about who they scored with last weekend. In summary, I never really deeply thought about how hurtful my actions were. 

Years later when I was more mature, I was cheated on and as poetic justice would have it, I was crushed and still deal with it today. 

Therefore, even though you now are a very selfish cheater, I do think it is possible to change. I hope you can learn how destructive cheating is before you have to experience it the hard way. 

It may be difficult to remember some of the details, but you need to try hard to remember. Do not trickle truth, no matter how tempting that is. 

Good luck.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Sallyman is the husband. Jacksgirl is the wife.


I wasn't clear. I'm assuming Jack is the husband whose screen name is Sallyman. And similarly Jacksgirl is Sally in real life, hence the husband Jack, goes by Sallyman and the wife Sally goes by Jacksgirl. 
Oh the hell with it. It was a bad joke.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Elegirl has suggested that I post what I have posted to her in our PMs so everyone can get a better picture of us two: 

He definitely did get a dose of reality. He had told me, "If you are explaining to them about why I have forgotten a lot of details and about my self esteem issues, I doubt everyone is telling you to divorce me."

His family? If you looked up the definition for Rugsweeping, his mom's and dad's side photos would be next to it. No joke.

His dad shot himself in front of him and his mom when he was 15. So they have coddled him since and made excuses for his bad behaviors.

He is 21, but the only thing I can defend him on is that he is more mature than any other male than I know. Except for his lying and cheating, of course. That is purely juvenile.




EleGirl said:


> Ok, so he's not been allowed to really grow up.
> 
> How old are you?
> 
> Hum, the lying and cheating are the very core of who he is. So no, he is not mature.


He had to grow up way too fast. He had to take care of his mom a sister, has been working since he was 15, took over his Dad's stock market shares and has an incredibly high IQ. He was given way too much responsibility way too early. You don't put children into adult roles and expect them to act like adults. His mom tried to turn him into a 30 year old at 15. But when he failed, she just made excuses for him. Like when he had to miss school to be there for her, she would lie for him. He never lies, that I know of, about anything other than the cheating and porn. Now, I am not making excuses for him, just explaining that he is not all bad. His bad is BAD, yes. But he is not all bad. He has always been very loving, never goes anywhere, except work, without me, he is an AMAZING father..like, wow. He is the dream dad! He treats me like royalty, always has. He loves doing things for me, goes out of his way to help around the house. He took over paying my student loans without me even asking, he helps my 9 year old daughter with her homework, he has a routine down for the house and makes sure we always have family time. He reads to the kids at night, he takes me on dates. He is one of the most responsible people I know (now all of this is aside from the affair and lying about affair and all that). He has never once wanted, or has, gone to "go out with friends" since we met. We go out but it's always together. Movies we want to see, concerts we want to see, road trips he plans to places we want to visit. We set down as a family for breakfast and dinner everyday. We cook together. He has one friend he talks to who is a guy. He is a mutual friend of ours and we both talk to him. He lives back in Texas where we are both from. He takes on a lot. I, personally, think he's takes on too much and feels like he is not a man if he doesn't. He makes sure all the bills get paid, the lawn mowed, the cats fed, etc. He sold his limited edition viper truck, that was his dad's, so that he could buy me a nice family car when I got pregnant and put the rest in our savings. He NEVER talks on the phone, only texts. He stopped talking to his family because they blamed me for the affair. He quit his job after D day so that we could work on our marriage. He just has not been doing it very effectively. I, myself, just turned 37 and he is about to be 22.
---End Quote---




EleGirl said:


> So he has good qualities. Hopefully he can stop the lying about the affair and you both can move on.
> 
> I think that you should post on your thread what you have posted in the PMs because it gives a much more complete picture of both of you.
> 
> ...


{I added the quote box around my own words to make this easier for people to understand}


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

You are 37 and he is 22 and he is playing you like THIS? 

I'm 37 (38 this weekend....ugh....make it stop.....) and my husband is 32.

So I understand the age difference can cause some issues with this. 6 years has caused some issues with us. I work with a guy who’s 32 and his girlfriend is 48 and it seems to be working great for THEM, but he’s also a VERY mature 32 (much more mature than my husband at 32). 

I cannot imagine being with a 22 year old. And you started dating him when he was 19/20? And you were 35/36? You didn’t see any issues with that? In all honesty, what in the world did you expect from a 19/20 year old? 

I met my husband when he was 21 and I was 27 and I was TERRIFIED of that. My husbands father also shot himself when my husband was 15. Our stories are quite similar, just that I’m younger than you. At the current age I am right now which is the same age as you, I cannot imagine being with a 22 year old.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> I wasn't clear. I'm assuming Jack is the husband whose screen name is Sallyman. And similarly Jacksgirl is Sally in real life, hence the husband Jack, goes by Sallyman and the wife Sally goes by Jacksgirl.
> Oh the hell with it. It was a bad joke.


Oh. Stupid me.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I cannot imagine being with a 22 year old. And you started dating him when he was 19/20? And you were 35/36? You didn?t see any issues with that? In all honesty, what in the world did you expect from a 19/20 year old?


This is the reason I normally leave our ages out of the equation. 

When I met my husband he was more mature the my Ex husband who was 1 MONTH younger than me. He was more mature than my male roommate who was 14 years older than him. Hell, he is more mature than my father who is in his 60's. Truly! We had a lot in common, he was kind, had a job, has savings, was smart, we wanted the same things in life, he was shy and had only 4 friends who were male, had been his friends since grade school and he considered them brothers. He had only been in one other relationship. I had lost my brother and an ex to suicide and he had lost his dad to suicide. I cannot explain it, but I never felt like I was with someone younger than I. He is much more responsible than I am too. So what was I thinking? I was thinking I was in love and finally found my match. The age only bothered me until I got to know him. 

We have spoken to MANY couples who have the very exact same difference in age, or very close (I believe we are called Cougars. Though I did not seek him out nor did he) and they have had amazing, rewarding and mature relationships. There was thought and effort and research put into this dynamic and our odds looked good. 

Now...ask how old MOST men are who cheat on their wives. Age means nothing and is no excuse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> This is the reason I normally leave our ages out of the equation.
> 
> When I met my husband he was more mature the my Ex husband who was 1 MONTH younger than me. He was more mature than my male roommate who was 14 years older than him. Hell, he is more mature than my father who is in his 60's. Truly! We had a lot in common, he was kind, had a job, has savings, was smart, we wanted the same things in life, he was shy and had only 4 friends who were male, had been his friends since grade school and he considered them brothers. He had only been in one other relationship. I had lost my brother and an ex to suicide and he had lost his dad to suicide. I cannot explain it, but I never felt like I was with someone younger than I. He is much more responsible than I am too. So what was I thinking? I was thinking I was in love and finally found my match. The age only bothered me until I got to know him.
> 
> ...


You are right that age is not an excuse. Age is not everything, but it's important.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

@Jacksgirl37,

If the age difference is determined to be a part of your problems it will be at the bottom of the list.

I don't know how we can really help "solve" much for you guys. 

Both of you have been through so much it's easy to see how life has had an impact on both of you.

Surely, Jack's situation with his father and the responsibilities heaped on him, played a huge part in his current dysfunction.

He will need to get his own help with that - with your support if you're still willing.

He is still, however, married to you. His tragedies are no excuse for his disloyalty and disrespect to your marriage.

That is all we can help you with here. 

As others have said here I think the place to start is with a written timeline. 

Take this one step at a time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> We are trying to work on our marriage. He is in counseling and so am I. We are doing an online couples course as well and getting back into marriage counseling. He lied to our first one, did not speak at our second one. Hopefully third time is a charm.
> 
> *His polygraph showed inconclusive on 3 questions and deception on the other one. *
> 
> ...


Is this the same polygraph test that showed:



> "Did you have sexual contact with ****** after finding out your wife was pregnant? He said no and failed.


IS it me or is there a discrepancy there? :scratchhead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Elegirl has suggested that I post what I have posted to her in our PMs so everyone can get a better picture of us two:
> 
> He definitely did get a dose of reality. He had told me, "If you are explaining to them about why I have forgotten a lot of details and about my self esteem issues, I doubt everyone is telling you to divorce me."
> 
> ...


But previously you said:



> Are your ages 21 and 37? What is the money situation? Who is the breadwinner?
> 
> No. Those are our favorite numbers combined. My wayward husband has all the money. I have 0 access to any of it. He never wanted me to work.


So, first you are 21 and 37, then you are not, but now you are both again at ages 21 and 37.

Are you *sure* about this? Absolutely *certain*, now what your ages are?:scratchhead:

And how come he has all the money?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He is 29. I am 27.


A big song and dance to lie about your ages. For fear of judgement regarding the big age difference. But yet you weren't so afraid that the ages went into the user names, where folks easily figured it out, and once they did, deny deny deny.

Im not sure which way is up. Good luck to you and your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He had told me, "If you are explaining to them about why I have forgotten a lot of details and about my self esteem issues, I doubt everyone is telling you to divorce me."


Jack,

None of that really matters. It sounds like you are trying to use all kinds of things as an excuse for your bad behavior and choices.

You are an adult now. No one cares if you have self esteem issues. We all do actually. But so what. 

Not one care why you claim to have forgotten details about the affair. The fact is that you have not forgotten the most important details. You are simply lying about this because you think that it will buy you a pass. It does not. If there is any reason that your wife will end up divorcing you, this is the reason right here. 

Here is some reading for you about Radical Honesty in a relationship

The Policy of Radical Honesty


If you have self esteem issues that lead to the cheating, it does not excuse the cheating. It's info that you and your wife can use to help affair-proof your marriage. That means that you have a huge vulnerability.

In marriage, privacy means that you get to close the door when you go to the bathroom. But there is other form of privacy in marriage. Your wife should be able to read your online accounts, your cell phone, your mail and anything else she wants. Just as she has no privacy in marriage. You can read her stuff too.

But for you, since you know that your self esteem is a HUGE vulnerability you need to let her always have access to everything. It's one of the biggest deterrents you will have. Knowing that she knows everything will help you avoid women who flatter you.

There are two books that I think will help the two of you: 

"Love Busters" 
"His Needs, Her Needs"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is that all? You are embarrassed about the age difference?

When I was a couple of years older than your husband I dated a woman who was in her 50s.

Why? I thought she was the sexiest, most gorgeous woman I had ever met.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > We are trying to work on our marriage. He is in counseling and so am I. We are doing an online couples course as well and getting back into marriage counseling. He lied to our first one, did not speak at our second one. Hopefully third time is a charm.
> ...


Yes. Same polygraph. How is there discrepancy? 3 were "inconclusive" and the last question was failed. Where is the discrepancy?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Elegirl has suggested that I post what I have posted to her in our PMs so everyone can get a better picture of us two:
> ...


Please see post above about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. He has all of the money because of his trust fund, inheritance, and savings from working since he was 15. He takes care of all the finances. Though, since D day, he has let me have access to all of the records. Nothing fishy. He has managed our (his) money well and has not lied about any of it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

JG, really, all Matt is trying to do is get to the bottom of this. You did lie about your ages, which is fine, but everyone figured that out, too. He just wants to make sure everything is out there, and correct, now. 

Look, you are married. I don't care if he's 20 and you're 50. Or vice versa. The point is that you vowed to be each other's one and only... and he broke that vow. You had a hand fasting (is that Wiccan?) about a month after you started seeing each other. Ok, cool. But you made it appear you had the license and had the legal ceremony, not just the religious one. I don't mean that to downplay the significance of the hand fasting to YOU, only that it doesn't count in the eyes of the law. That's what some were hung up on... they assumed you were LEGALLY married that soon... and they were wondering WHY. 

Ok, so, he FAILED the polygraph that asked if he had sexual contact with another woman after finding out you were pregnant. So, go from there. 
@Sallysman21, answer her truthfully. You failed the test, which means you *did* have some sort of sexual contact. That you are not budging from your stance, were you my husband, that would tell me it was intercourse. Just tell her the truth. Your only chance at fixing this is if you are HONEST with her. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Reminds me of Dana.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Please see post above about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. He has all of the money because of his trust fund, inheritance, and savings from working since he was 15. He takes care of all the finances. Though, since D day, he has let me have access to all of the records. Nothing fishy. He has managed our (his) money well and has not lied about any of it.


The point about the money is valid. I get that he has control of his inheritance, trust fund, and savings. But why don't YOU have access to any money, yourself? Are you given ANY spending money per pay period, or is he the ONLY one who has access to the money (not the records, but the money, itself)? This is the aspect of the money situation that does not sit well with posters here. Even a stay-at-home parent should have SOME money for herself/himself, in case ofemergencies while the other spouse is not available... or just to get something they want or need.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

My husband was a mature 21 too. I've often joked that he was the grown up and I was the kid. 

UNTIL it caught up with us. He mostly has a good head on his shoulders. Goes up work, does alright with money usually, is great with the kids, wonderful dad......but emotionally, not so much.

Which is where I see your problem. Emotionally, he's 22. Were he emotionally mature, he wouldn't be playing these "I can't remember" games.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Please see post above about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. He has all of the money because of his trust fund, inheritance, and savings from working since he was 15. He takes care of all the finances. Though, since D day, he has let me have access to all of the records. Nothing fishy. He has managed our (his) money well and has not lied about any of it.


All that money that you mention is his sole property. 

Does he have a job and current income?

Do you get child support for your older child?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> In marriage, privacy means that you get to close the door when you go to the bathroom. But there is other form of privacy in marriage. Your wife should be able to read your online accounts, your cell phone, your mail and anything else she wants. Just as she has no privacy in marriage. You can read her stuff too.


Thank you so much for the link and books. And the advice. My WS said he is going to respond to all of the good advice he has gotten here, tonight. Even if it was hard for him to hear. If it was constructive, he is going to respond. If it was snarky, I doubt he will bother. 

But Elegirl, you have been very helpful and I want to point out one flaw with the privacy thing. I am aware this is going to make him look even worse, but it must be said.

He chatted and sexted with her through words with friends chat and it was when I was asleep. Then he would delete the chat. Once the chat is deleted, it cannot be retrieved again. I had full access to his phone his entire affair. Nothing was ever there. It was while he was at work and while he was asleep. He would go up to work 10-15 early to "sit in his truck and drink his monster to get woke up and listen to music". But what he was really doing was...doing whatever with her. He talked to me on both of his breaks, every day and came home every day for his lunch hour. So I know they did not spend a lot of physical time together. Now, I do still believe that they had sex. I know my husband and his sex drive and I have a very hard time believing there was no sexual activities. He also never went anywhere without me, except work, and this has always been his choice. And he always welcomed me to come up and surprise him at work. He also left that job in June of 2015. Take from that what you will. 

Now, since D day, he has decided to go to college instead of going back to work. And he has agreed to do the following: (Some may be far fetched and TMI)
1. Voice activated recorder in his car and on him at all times when I am not with him.
2. Male chastity 
3. His phone to have trackers to I can monitor everything he does on it. No ability to delete history or use private browsers or apps at all. 
4. Spy glasses.
5. Hot pink shirt that says "Happily Married"
6. NO contact with the opposite sex, unless teacher which will be visually and audio monitored.
7. Pre nuptial that states, if he cheats again, I walk with half of everything and custody of our son.

And he agreed to all of this for as long as I need him to...even if it is forever. 

He is in sexual addiction therapy and individual therapy and we are about to start marriage counseling again. 

I don't know why he won't just come clean and stop with this "cheaters amnesia" crap. He gets mad when I talk about it. But sorry hubby, you know I do not believe you have forgotten. 

You need to work on learning how to SHOW true remorse and come clean about the things I need to know. Simple as that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yea, I get that as much as you try, he could still go far underground. And being in school probably gives him even more latitude then being at work.

There are keystroke monitors that take screenshots as well as saving every keystroke. And if the deletes them or shuts them down, it's taken as him having an affair. Or at least seriously breaking your agreement.

At some point the pink "Happily Married" shirt has to go. I doubt it would matter to any woman who wants to cheat with him.

I get that it gets to the point where you feel like you are the marriage cop. It sucks. I know that I gave up after a while. Then there were two times when I spot checked... one about 3 years after the affair and 5 years after the affair. Both times he'd gotten to feel safe and went right back to the on line sexting stuff. Clearly we are no longer married. I tried. He apparently did not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

To continue.

Some people cheat and learn and never do it again.

Some people are serial cheaters and will do it all they can get away with. And once they think you are feeling safe and not looking, they will go back to cheating.

I don't know which of these groups your husband is in. You don't know either. It's up to him to prove which one he's in. And it's up to you to decide if you want to wait long enough to find out.

ONe thing I would do were I you is get a job. You are in a very unstable situation. You being completely dependent on him might actually be embolding him.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good".


So you're Plan B. You know this, right? Are you okay with that?



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, how old is his AP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Please see post above about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. He has all of the money because of his trust fund, inheritance, and savings from working since he was 15. He takes care of all the finances. Though, since D day, he has let me have access to all of the records. Nothing fishy. He has managed our (his) money well and has not lied about any of it.
> ...


I have to ask when I need something or want something but it is rare that he says no. I do wish that, if he is not wanting me to work, that I could have a monthly allowance. We did that for like 2 months then it just stopped. :/ I hate having to ask for everything. I will admit that.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I have to ask when I need something or want something but it is rare that he says no. I do wish that, if he is not wanting me to work, that I could have a monthly allowance. We did that for like 2 months then it just stopped. :/ I hate having to ask for everything. I will admit that.


Then bring that to the table, again. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Please see post above about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. He has all of the money because of his trust fund, inheritance, and savings from working since he was 15. He takes care of all the finances. Though, since D day, he has let me have access to all of the records. Nothing fishy. He has managed our (his) money well and has not lied about any of it.
> ...


He uses his savings right now. We own our home. As in, paid $300,000 up front and in full after selling the house in Texas. 2 of our vehicles are paid off. So he just uses his savings for bills and groceries and life. My daughter's father pays for everything for her. She is a tomboy and is not into toys and such. Such a simple child, she is.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

This story has B.S. written all over it. I don't believe it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GuyInColorado said:


> This story has B.S. written all over it. I don't believe it.


You know the rules. If you think a thread is bogus, do not post that on the thread. Instead report the thread.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, I get that as much as you try, he could still go far underground. And being in school probably gives him even more latitude then being at work.
> 
> There are keystroke monitors that take screenshots as well as saving every keystroke. And if the deletes them or shuts them down, it's taken as him having an affair. Or at least seriously breaking your agreement.
> 
> ...


Yes, key loggers will be on his phone and he will have visual and audio anytime he is not with me (at school). But thankfully he can do his first two years online at home and there are 3 programs and passwords on the laptop he will be using which is in the living room where anyone can see what he's doing and it saves everything he does.

Now, ALL of this was his idea. The pink shirt was his mom's and was sort of a joke that turned into a "I can do that". Put now he wants it tattooed down one arm. 

We have put no time limit on how long he will do this. He said he was kind of excited about me "taking control". So this may become a lifestyle we both enjoy. The male chastity kinda seals the deal on the impossibility of intercourse with another. (SORRY...TMI!!!)

Someone put it to me once, like this; look at it as a colostomy bag. It may be necessary but it will be annoying at first and then you just forget it is there. Your life does not have to revolve around it. He will have special glasses, special devices to help him learn and all these things will just become a way of life for as long as they are wanted or needed. He is willing and wants to do this, so who am I to argue?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He uses his savings right now. We own our home. As in, paid $300,000 up front and in full after selling the house in Texas. 2 of our vehicles are paid off. So he just uses his savings for bills and groceries and life. My daughter's father pays for everything for her. She is a tomboy and is not into toys and such. Such a simple child, she is.


Who paid the $300,00 for the house? And for the cars?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good".
> ...


That is what I told him. No, I am not ok with it. Not at all. He says he does not see it that way. I don't see how he does not see it that way though. I feel he just kept me around in case things did not work out with her.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how old is his AP?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is 26 now. She was 24 and 25 while they were together.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> This story has B.S. written all over it. I don't believe it.


And what about it do you not believe? I can offer you anything you need to prove this hell is all VERY real if you plan to offer advice. Just PM me.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > He uses his savings right now. We own our home. As in, paid $300,000 up front and in full after selling the house in Texas. 2 of our vehicles are paid off. So he just uses his savings for bills and groceries and life. My daughter's father pays for everything for her. She is a tomboy and is not into toys and such. Such a simple child, she is.
> ...


His Mother paid for the house. She is a retired dentist who use to make a lot of money and comes from a lot of money. She purchased the two limited edition trucks, one for her, one for my husband's father. My husband sold the one that was given to him after his father died, to buy me a family car, the day after we found out I was pregnant. Both my husband's dad and mom's side come from a lot of money and they have A LOT of investments. They also all worked very high paying jobs and were smart with money management. I guess he learned that mainly from his grandfather on his mom's side.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> We have spoken to MANY couples who have the very exact same difference in age, or very close (I believe we are called Cougars.


I hate to tell you this JG but if you think his tom catting is bad when you're 37 and he's 21, just wait until you're late fifties and he's barely forty looking at 37 or younger women.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Male chastity? Why bother? 

My husband had an EA, I get it, I monitor, I snoop, I look. But the day I feel I have to put a chastity belt on him, I'm gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

to delete double post


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> And what about it do you not believe? I can offer you anything you need to prove this hell is all VERY real if you plan to offer advice. Just PM me.


Then why don't you be-friend the OW and get all of the details of the affair?

If this is real, then divorce him. The relationship will never be the same. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Once that sacred trust has been broken, the marriage is worthless.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Male chastity? Why bother?
> 
> My husband had an EA, I get it, I monitor, I snoop, I look. But the day I feel I have to put a chastity belt on him, I'm gone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. He should be able to choose to be faithful WITHOUT being on "lockdown"... literally.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry but it is only fair that others here know that you have another account and that in that account you said that your husband is 21. Here is the thread where you said that.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/336937-wayward-husband-amnesia-affair-5.html
> 
> ...


Am I the only one that noticed that the OP from the above link (and obviously the same OP on this thread) was banned after only one day, and has been banned since? That was 2 months ago so that would suggest permanently banned.

Did I miss something, or have the rules here changed again?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

3putt said:


> Am I the only one that noticed that the OP from the above link (and obviously the same OP on this thread) was banned after only one day, and has been banned since? That was 2 months ago so that would suggest permanently banned.
> 
> Did I miss something, or have the rules here changed again?


You apparently you missed that the very post of mine you quoted was me pointing this very thing out to all posters so that they were aware of her other account.

Yes, it's the same OP on both threads under different user names. She, like a lot of others on TAM got caught in the TAM Universal password reset from 6/2016. So when she tried to log in now, she could not get into her original account. A LOT of TAM posters got caught up in this. A lot of other TAM posters created second accounts. I have a list of the ones I've noted and have been working with people to get both of their accounts merged or one of them banned.

I banned her other account today. She can use the current account.


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You apparently you missed that the very post of mine you quoted was me pointing this very thing out to all posters so that they were aware of her other account.
> 
> Yes, it's the same OP on both threads under different user names. She, like a lot of others on TAM got caught in the TAM Universal password reset from 6/2016. So when she tried to log in now, she could not get into her original account. A LOT of TAM posters got caught up in this. A lot of other TAM posters created second accounts. I have a list of the ones I've noted and have been working with people to get both of their accounts merged or one of them banned.
> 
> I banned her other account today. She can use the current account.


Fair enough. I didn't see that.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > We have spoken to MANY couples who have the very exact same difference in age, or very close (I believe we are called Cougars.
> ...


LOL. I will still look better than him at 50. There is no one who would deny that. Even his family. My family ages very well. I just turned 37 a few days ago and I still get carded for vapor juice and wine. He, on the other hand, does not get carded. We have never had anyone think he was my son or anything like that. His family looks older than they are. My mom is 60 and she looks around 38 to 40. I normally hear that I look 22 to 24. That is the average. 

But I get what you are saying.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > And what about it do you not believe? I can offer you anything you need to prove this hell is all VERY real if you plan to offer advice. Just PM me.
> ...


The OW is a psychopath. She is literally a very troubled and scary girl. She believes the God wanted her to have the affair to test her new marriage. WOW! So you are saying that no marriage can survive infidelity?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

@Jacksgirl37,

Yours is a difficult path.

From what I've read about Jack, he's felt incredibly burdened since the age of 15.

He's cared for his family now he cares for you and your daughter.

Most likely, the AP was easy for him. Didn't have to provide. Didn't have to care for. 

It was just easy.

You are another responsibility to him. 

What responsibilities does he allow you to have?


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

3putt said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but it is only fair that others here know that you have another account and that in that account you said that your husband is 21. Here is the thread where you said that.
> ...


I was never banned. I set up a new account when I was unable to get into my old one. Something about some password mixup? Elegirl and I have already spoken about this. I think she was going to close that other account. And I already posted on here about why I stopped including our ages in the equation of this situation. We get good advice until people hear our age then we get bashed for it and not taken seriously. As if it is completely unheard of for such an age gap. There is an entire long post that explains the why if you are curious. 

But age is not the issue. 21 year old males are NOT the only ones who cheat and not all 21 year old males cheat.

Everyone forgets this fact.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Ceegee said:


> @Jacksgirl37,
> 
> Yours is a difficult path.
> 
> ...


Not much. Our son, cleaning. But he always says he likes to do these things for me. I think he puts too much stress on himself. I think he thinks that he is expected to put so much on himself, and when he fails at something (because he has taken on way too much), he gets very down on himself and feels like a huge failure. It is something he is working on in therapy.


----------



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> LosingHim said:
> 
> 
> > Male chastity? Why bother?
> ...


I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > He uses his savings right now. We own our home. As in, paid $300,000 up front and in full after selling the house in Texas. 2 of our vehicles are paid off. So he just uses his savings for bills and groceries and life. My daughter's father pays for everything for her. She is a tomboy and is not into toys and such. Such a simple child, she is.
> ...





Jacksgirl37 said:


> His Mother paid for the house. She is a retired dentist who use to make a lot of money and comes from a lot of money. She purchased the two limited edition trucks, one for her, one for my husband's father. My husband sold the one that was given to him after his father died, to buy me a family car, the day after we found out I was pregnant. Both my husband's dad and mom's side come from a lot of money and they have A LOT of investments. They also all worked very high paying jobs and were smart with money management. I guess he learned that mainly from his grandfather on his mom's side.


You say that you own your own home? Are you on the deed? Does his mother actually own it since she paid for it?

Normally, when we talk about what discretionary money each spouse should have, it’s based on marital income, not on the sole property of one of the spouses. Technically you have zero right to any of sole property. 

But, you say that you are not working because he wants you to not work. This complicates things in your situation. And since he does not want you to work, he really should be giving you an allowance on a monthly or weekly basis. It’s absolutely wrong for him to expect you to not take care of yourself financially but then refuse to allow you to work so you can have money and not have to beg for it. It definitely makes him look like he’s setting up an abusive situation in which he’s so in control of you that you have no option but to stay with him.

In your case, I would seriously also consider that he needs to put some sum of money in an account in your name only so that you have something in case something happens. Even a few grand would be good.


----------



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good".
> ...


She is not Plan B. Never was Plan B. I made the mistake and terrible choices of stepping out of the vows and sanctity of marriage. But it was never because I was looking for a way out or trying to find something better. It had nothing to do with that. So no, I don't feel like she is or ever was Plan B. I am in love with my wife and I am now realizing my own flaws and working on fixing them to be better for her, to be the man she deserves and the man that I know I can and want to be.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Not much. Our son, cleaning. But he always says he likes to do these things for me. I think he puts too much stress on himself. I think he thinks that he is expected to put so much on himself, and when he fails at something (because he has taken on way too much), he gets very down on himself and feels like a huge failure. It is something he is working on in therapy.


You say that he only allows you to take care of your son and do the cleaning.

What are the other things that he takes responsibility for? Besides paying bills, what other responsibilities are there?


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> She is not Plan B. Never was Plan B. I made the mistake and terrible choices of stepping out of the vows and sanctity of marriage. But it was never because I was looking for a way out or trying to find something better. It had nothing to do with that. So no, I don't feel like she is or ever was Plan B. I am in love with my wife and I am now realizing my own flaws and working on fixing them to be better for her, to be the man she deserves and the man that I know I can and want to be.


I think what i previously quoted upthread says otherwise.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.


Why would you be faithful, open, and transparent only until she feels safe? In marriage these are things that you do for life. It will always be necessary. And it's even more necessary for life after your affair. 

You say that you are willing to be open but you have not answered her questions. How is that being transparent? Where is the Radical Honesty?


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.


But that's my point. Why is a chastity device necessary for her to feel "safe" that you won't cheat again? You either are, or you are not. A chastity device isn't going to keep you from cheating. You can still do any number of different sexual things... without using your penis. So, I don't understand how a chastity device would give her any sense of safety as far as your fidelity.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.
> ...


Not until she feels safe, always. What I was referring to when I stated that until she felt safe, was the tools and things we have set into place to help with her feeling safety again. When she feels that they are not necessary anymore for her to feel safe or trust me again. But I will be faithful, open, and transparent with her even after that point.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Jack, I would like for you to answer some questions for me.

1. Why do you think you cannot remember the details I am looking for to heal?

2. What are you doing to find those answers?

3. Why do you not want me to work?

4. Why did you not break it off with her first?

5. When asked, on your polygraph "Did you have any sexual contact with ***** after finding out your wife was pregnant?" Why did you answer no? Why did it come back deceptive?

6. Why did you trickle truth me when you saw how much pain I was in?

7. Why do you get defensive and angry when I want to talk about the affair?

8. If you were just trying to "make things up", why not say something like "I thought she was funnier than you" instead of "Thinner" AND "Prettier"? Which we now both know was a lie. She was bigger than me and not even close to pretty. Even your friends were disappointed in how badly you downgraded.

9. Why did you say such horrible things about me to her while you were with her?

10. What are your thoughts on polygraphs and will you take another one if it means saving our marriage?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I was never banned. I set up a new account when I was unable to get into my old one. Something about some password mixup? Elegirl and I have already spoken about this. I think she was going to close that other account.


Yes, I closed the other account by banning it. It's the only way to close an account.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like you're married to a narcissist. If it was just one incident, I'd not say that, but sounds like this will be your marriage from here on out, because they don't change. They don't self reflect, they only feign that. This isn't a knock on you, sallysman...but probably what will help you most if you hope to save your marriage, is to figure out when you became this person, this narcissist. It usually begins in childhood. Your wife probably isn't the first woman you've lied to. Maybe figure out where all of your behaviors began, and then maybe you can heal.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

[/QUOTE]

You say that you own your own home? Are you on the deed? Does his mother actually own it since she paid for it?

Normally, when we talk about what discretionary money each spouse should have, it’s based on marital income, not on the sole property of one of the spouses. Technically you have zero right to any of sole property. 

But, you say that you are not working because he wants you to not work. This complicates things in your situation. And since he does not want you to work, he really should be giving you an allowance on a monthly or weekly basis. It’s absolutely wrong for him to expect you to not take care of yourself financially but then refuse to allow you to work so you can have money and not have to beg for it. It definitely makes him look like he’s setting up an abusive situation in which he’s so in control of you that you have no option but to stay with him.

In your case, I would seriously also consider that he needs to put some sum of money in an account in your name only so that you have something in case something happens. Even a few grand would be good.[/QUOTE]

His Mother, technically, owns the house, yes. 
And I COMPLETELY AGREE with you. I do not like the situation I have been put in and I do believe that I should either be able to work or have an allowance again. Thankfully, if anything did happen, I have family who could help a lot. But I have been working since I was 14. I have an associate degree in psychology, bachelor degree in business, certified preschool teacher and certified veterinarian technician. I have also owned 3 businesses. 

His reason for him not wanting me to work has always been....wait for it....

He was afraid I would cheat on him with a co-worker. 

Yup.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Excuses... be-friend the OW and get the details. Then you'll have the facts you need to divorce him with good conscience. It's as easy as that, just do it and stop with it. She probably has photos/videos she'd love to share if you ask.

If you're going to R, you should get to sleep with someone else too. It's only fair. Maybe you'll see you're missing out and shouldn't waste anymore time with your unfaithful husband.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

GIC, that isn't helpful in the least.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.
> ...


I wish there was a "LOVE" post button on here. I would tap this one until my finger gave out. 

This is what I keep saying too. It is like saying, "I will never kick you again" and then kicking the person. Words mean nothing without actions. And if the two do not match up, his words could have just been memorized out of a book, for all I know. 

If you are going to say something, be prepared to show it. If you don't know how to show it, don't say it. 

If you want to show it, want to say it, but don't know how....learn how. 

A quote that I have always loved, "It is not nice to say 'I love you' with a mouth full of lies".


----------



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Jack, I would like for you to answer some questions for me.
> 
> 1. Why do you think you cannot remember the details I am looking for to heal?
> 
> ...


1. I don't know why I can't remember, whenever you ask me the questions and I try to find the answer, there is nothing there. The memories aren't there. I don't know how to explain it.
2. I'm working on trying to remember the details that you are looking for by looking at the supposed event that "happened."
3. I don't want you to work because I don't want you to have to work, I want to be able to take care of you and the kids independently and know that I'm providing for all of you and that way you can relax and do the things that you enjoy at home and not have to worry about working like you have for most of your life. 
4. I guess in the end it's because I didn't want to. I was enjoying the attention and ego boost.
5. Because even though I don't know when exactly it ended, I feel like it ended before we found out that you were pregnant. And because I'm not entirely sure when it ended.
6. I don't know why, I thought it would be easier for me and better for you so that you wouldn't have so much thrown at you all at once and I at that point was still trying to save face. 
7. I get angry because I'm shameful of my actions and choices and I'm pissed off at myself for putting you and this family in this situation. And I get defensive because I want to try and correct the misinterpretations and misconceptions instead of validating what you are feeling like I should be doing. Because regardless of whether the information that is causing you to feel that way, whether it is real or not, your feelings are and that is what I should be focusing on.
8. it was because it is what I thought you were trying to pull out of me and what you were expecting to hear and that it would be the only thing you would listen to at the time without instantly telling me I was full of it and that I was a liar. Even though as you said, it was a downright farce and terrible lie. Not just terrible because of how hurtful it was, but also terrible because it could be no further from the truth.
9. It was so that I could try and find some sort of justification within my own mind to keep it going. So I lied to her, and I lied to myself so that I wouldn't feel so guilty and shameful at the time.
10. I don't believe in the test, I think they're bogus and unreliable. I feel there are too many factors that can play into manipulating the stressors that they measure to "test deception". But at this point, it doesn't matter what I believe in or what I feel is appropriate to judge whether or not we should stay together. That is your choice and I will take the test for you as I did before.


----------



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

You say that you own your own home? Are you on the deed? Does his mother actually own it since she paid for it?

Normally, when we talk about what discretionary money each spouse should have, it’s based on marital income, not on the sole property of one of the spouses. Technically you have zero right to any of sole property. 

But, you say that you are not working because he wants you to not work. This complicates things in your situation. And since he does not want you to work, he really should be giving you an allowance on a monthly or weekly basis. It’s absolutely wrong for him to expect you to not take care of yourself financially but then refuse to allow you to work so you can have money and not have to beg for it. It definitely makes him look like he’s setting up an abusive situation in which he’s so in control of you that you have no option but to stay with him.

In your case, I would seriously also consider that he needs to put some sum of money in an account in your name only so that you have something in case something happens. Even a few grand would be good.[/QUOTE]

His Mother, technically, owns the house, yes. 
And I COMPLETELY AGREE with you. I do not like the situation I have been put in and I do believe that I should either be able to work or have an allowance again. Thankfully, if anything did happen, I have family who could help a lot. But I have been working since I was 14. I have an associate degree in psychology, bachelor degree in business, certified preschool teacher and certified veterinarian technician. I have also owned 3 businesses. 

His reason for him not wanting me to work has always been....wait for it....

He was afraid I would cheat on him with a co-worker. 

Yup.[/QUOTE]

And yes, that last statement is another part of my answer towards question #3


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> His Mother, technically, owns the house, yes.


So, if this marriage ends, you walk out of it with the shirt on your back.

Depending on your state, you have zero right to a dime of his sole property. You definitely have no right to a house that’s in his mother’s name. 

He would probably have to pay your child support, even if it comes out of his sole property. 

You are 37. As you get older, it’s harder to find a job and get back into the work force.

You are so setting yourself up for a very hard life if this marriage does not make it. Which means that he has you by the throat (I wanted to be nice and not use the other anology  )



Jacksgirl37 said:


> And I COMPLETELY AGREE with you. I do not like the situation I have been put in and I do believe that I should either be able to work or have an allowance again. Thankfully, if anything did happen, I have family who could help a lot. But I have been working since I was 14. I have an associate degree in psychology, bachelor degree in business, certified preschool teacher and certified veterinarian technician. I have also owned 3 businesses.


So why are you letting him order you around? How can he stop you from working? What this thing that he will not “let” you work? Either he supports you, which means he give you a bank account that is only yours and you get an allowance. 

But, if you take the not-working route, keep in mind that if he cheats again and you have to go back to work, the longer you stay out of the work force, the harder it would be for you to get back in and warn a decent living.

I would think that to feel safe, need a job. I would think that is part of what you need in order for you to heal. 

I have no idea how much he has in inheritance and other things, but again, if he does not want you to work he needs to give you a buffer. This thing that if he cheats again, you get 50% of his sole property does not hold water. Why? Because even if he does cheat, you probably cannot prove to satisfy a court. The court usually requires that you catch them in the act and have a picture of it. Go see an attorney and ask what proof in need in your state and with your local judges.



Jacksgirl37 said:


> His reason for him not wanting me to work has always been....wait for it....
> 
> He was afraid I would cheat on him with a co-worker.


Gee, I wonder where he gets the idea that someone might cheat at work…. Oh yea, that’s what he did. Silly him.

You are married to a control freak. It’s a form of emotional abuse. I have no doubt that he felt that he could cheat because 1) he has you in a place where you cannot leave him easily 2) clearly he thought you were stupid to figure out what he was doing.



Jacksgirl37 said:


> Yup.


Yup

Please go find a good job. You need to work. It's part of you feeling safe. It's part of you feeling that you have control over your own life.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Not much. Our son, cleaning. But he always says he likes to do these things for me. I think he puts too much stress on himself. I think he thinks that he is expected to put so much on himself, and when he fails at something (because he has taken on way too much), he gets very down on himself and feels like a huge failure. It is something he is working on in therapy.




I think you're right. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> 1. I don't know why I can't remember, whenever you ask me the questions and I try to find the answer, there is nothing there. The memories aren't there. I don't know how to explain it..


What other times of your life do you not recall? How many times a week/month are there things that you cannot remember?

How often did you forget important details at work? 

How often do you not forget people you know.. you know like do you ever not recognize your mother? How about your child?

How long has this been going on?

Have you been to a medical doctor to find out if you have some brain damage and what that damage is? I can give you the link to a doctor who does brain cans to figure this out.

Clearly you are developing dementia.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> I have chosen to be faithful, open, and transparent. It's a choice that we both made together that would help her feel more safe until I can earn her trust back to the point where she feels it isn't necessary anymore. I'm willing to do this and more for her to help her feel safe with me again and to work on rebuilding trust.




All due respect, I don't think you are being open and transparent. 

You can't recall details and you resent Sally for checking your phone. 

This needs to stop. 

If you have nothing to hide don't hide it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> She is not Plan B. Never was Plan B. I made the mistake and terrible choices of stepping out of the vows and sanctity of marriage. But it was never because I was looking for a way out or trying to find something better. It had nothing to do with that. So no, I don't feel like she is or ever was Plan B. I am in love with my wife and I am now realizing my own flaws and working on fixing them to be better for her, to be the man she deserves and the man that I know I can and want to be.




I believe you but you aren't doing the things you need to in order to gain that trust back. 

So, instead of telling us what it didn't have to do with, tell us what it did.

Denying isn't the same as being open. 

Open up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Sounds like you're married to a narcissist. If it was just one incident, I'd not say that, but sounds like this will be your marriage from here on out, because they don't change. They don't self reflect, they only feign that. This isn't a knock on you, sallysman...but probably what will help you most if you hope to save your marriage, is to figure out when you became this person, this narcissist. It usually begins in childhood. Your wife probably isn't the first woman you've lied to. Maybe figure out where all of your behaviors began, and then maybe you can heal.


His therapist did say he has Narcissistic traits. And he also does this smirk/smile or looks like he is just about to smile when she asks him things that make him uncomfortable or at inappropriate times. He said that she gets so mad at him for it. He does the same to me and I want to punch him. I forgot what it is called. 

I remember once, I asked him if he ever saw the AP's face in the nude photos she sent him. He smirked and looked away and said he did not remember. If it was not illegal, I would have taken a bat to his legs. 

I'm not normally a violent person. I use to work with Austistic children and I had all the patience and love in the world for them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Why do you think you cannot remember the details I am looking for to heal?
> ...


what are the questions that she asks that you cannot answer because there is nothing there?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Why do you not want me to work?
> ...


How is not giving her an allowance 'taking care of her'?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > 5. When asked, on your polygraph "Did you have any sexual contact with ***** after finding out your wife was pregnant?" Why did you answer no? Why did it come back deceptive?
> ...


Ah, so this is an admission that you had sexual contact with her at some time. You are just not clear on when the last date was when you did.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

TAM friends,

May I make a request?

I am one of the first to beat down an unrepentant cheater. 

My record speaks for itself.

That is not what we have here. 

We have a couple. 

A couple that includes a heartbroken wife. 

Bother desperate to save what they have. 

Let's try to help them as the couple they are. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > 6. Why did you trickle truth me when you saw how much pain I was in?
> ...


This seems to be honest. It's very typical for a cheater to try to save face, or pull the wool over their spouse's eyes. They are seldom actually concerned about the pain their spouse is going through. It's about self preservation.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > 9. Why did you say such horrible things about me to her while you were with her?
> ...


Another one that makes sense.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> She is not Plan B. Never was Plan B. I made the mistake and terrible choices of stepping out of the vows and sanctity of marriage. But it was never because I was looking for a way out or trying to find something better. It had nothing to do with that. So no, I don't feel like she is or ever was Plan B. I am in love with my wife and I am now realizing my own flaws and working on fixing them to be better for her, to be the man she deserves and the man that I know I can and want to be.





Jacksgirl37 said:


> My WH was dumped by the AP. He said he never planned on leaving her because it "felt too good".


Are you ever going to stop lying?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


From original post:

He says they did not have sex, they sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot: 
If she was in his truck or not
What attracted him to her 
Why he felt he loved her 
When it started 
When it ended 
How it ended 
What they talked about 
If he put his fingers inside of her 
And much more


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> *Please go find a good job. You need to work. *It's part of you feeling safe. It's part of you feeling that you have control over your own life.


This^. If your H wants to reconcile, make this part of your condition. You deserve a career. Besides, don't you want to be married by CHOICE, not because you feel you MUST?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> From original post:
> 
> He says they did not have sex, they sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot:
> If she was in his truck or not
> ...


I want to see what he answers to my question.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> From original post:
> 
> He says they did not have sex, they sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot:
> If she was in his truck or not
> ...




If he can't answer questions it is left to your imagination. 

You're going to imagine the worst. 

That's what you have to go on. 

It's his choice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. I don't know why I can't remember, whenever you ask me the questions and I try to find the answer, there is nothing there. The memories aren't there. I don't know how to explain it..
> ...


If I could honestly answer what other times I don't recall, then clearly it would indicate that I could. So I don't really understand the question. I don't remember every event that's ever happened in my life, for example, most of my school years are fuzzy at best.

What do you define as important details?

And I don't forget who the important people are in my life. Not like you're suggesting.

Again, how would I be able to judge if I've had these problems consistently throughout my life, if my memories of my previous years aren't clear and prominent. Yes, there are several moments and events that I can recall on a whim that have occurred in my life. Most of the time when I remember something though, it's usually random and based on the current situation that is going on in the immediate present.

No. I've never been checked for brain damage as there aren't any clear indicators or substantial reason to ever assume that I would have any.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. I don't know why I can't remember, whenever you ask me the questions and I try to find the answer, there is nothing there. The memories aren't there. I don't know how to explain it..
> ...


In general, I have a pretty good memory when I've had to recall or recount something however, but as for the details of the affair. They're just not there, whether it's fuzzy that I can't remember specifics of conversations or just altogether about events to supposedly happened.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> If I could honestly answer what other times I don't recall, then clearly it would indicate that I could. So I don't really understand the question. I don't remember every event that's ever happened in my life, for example, most of my school years are fuzzy at best.
> 
> What do you define as important details?
> 
> ...


Examples of important details:

1. When you met Sally.
2. When you got married... both the handfasting and the legal wedding. 
3. The moment she told you that you were going to be a father.
4. Trying to decipher any/all ultrasounds of your son.
5. The day you found out you were having a son.
6. His birth.

Things like that. Do you remember any of those, and if so, how much detail of each?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> In general, I have a pretty good memory when I've had to recall or recount something however, but as for the details of the affair. They're just not there, whether it's fuzzy that I can't remember specifics of conversations or just altogether about events to supposedly happened.




Dude,

You're going to have to recall some details. 

Anything. 

Start somewhere, anywhere. 

Your complete lack of recall is damning. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> In general, I have a pretty good memory when I've had to recall or recount something however, but as for the details of the affair. They're just not there, whether it's fuzzy that I can't remember specifics of conversations or just altogether about events to supposedly happened.


 @Jacksgirl37 if you stay with this man, you will almost certainly face a lot more infidelity.

If you had any sense of self worth, you would end this farce and take a good hard look at yourself with respect to the men you choose as mates.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tell us what you do remember about the affair. Let's start there. Do a time line of what you recall.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Tell us what you do remember about the affair. Let's start there. Do a time line of what you recall.


Yes. Yes! This!! Do this!! Jack? Maybe we can all collectively help you fill in the blanks.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Yes. Yes! This!! Do this!! Jack? Maybe we can all collectively help you fill in the blanks.



@Sallysman21

If you get nothing else from this, know that details are important to Sally's healing. 

Her healing is important to your reconciliation. 

Without it you're just spinning your wheels. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Ceegee said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > From original post:
> ...


Here is what I think:

He says they did not have sex
(I believe they did have sex and he is afraid to say so because that might mean that, the twins she had 3 days after our son was born, could be his).

They sexted through words with friends 
(I think they talked through other apps as well and I know they sent emails back and forth. I think they sent a bunch of nudes back and forth, Skype, used pinger for sexting and talking on phone. I think he had secret accounts as well)

Kissed and groped at work
(I believe they did more than that. I believe they had sex, oral sex, hand and finger penetration)

If she was in his truck or not 
(I believe she was in his truck a lot. Why take the chance of getting caught outside of work when he had a tinted window truck where they could do whatever they wanted?)

What attracted him to her 
(I know he likes Latino girls with big butts. But I don't know her personality. Only he knows how he felt and what kept him interested)

Why he felt he loved her
(How would he not know this? This is ludicrous. I think he thinks it will hurt me to hear him speak fondly of her. When in reality, it won't bother me. It was in the past. I just need him to admit everything) 

When it started 
(I think it started in August of 2014)

When it ended 
(I think it ended April 4th, 2016. The day before she first contacted me)

How it ended 
(I think he kept promising her he would leave me and she got tired of it)

What they talked about
(How to leave their spouses, where to live, how to do it. How much they were in love. I know he did tell her I was the world's fattest woman. When in reality, I was at a healthy weight and working out with a personal trainer. I'm sure he said the most horrible things about me and shared my whole life story. I'm sure he told her all the generic crap he told me. I am sure he told her all the kinky things he is into and did them with her too).
If he put his fingers inside of her 
(I am very positive he did..among other things)
When the last time he spoke to her
(April of this year)
I am sure he had many other affairs as well. Small and big.

I think he does plan to cheat again. If he was truly committed, he would be honest and remorseful. Not get angry or defensive when I share my feelings. Talk about the affair and let me vent.

The point is that if he cannot respect me enough to be 100% honest with me, how can I trust him again? Honesty is something that has to be shown in order to rebuild trust.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> @Sallysman21
> 
> If you get nothing else from this, know that details are important to Sally's healing.
> 
> ...


In the long run I think @Sallysman21 can just wait out @Jacksgirl37 while effectively doing whatever he pleases. In every post it's pretty obvious Jacksgirl37 wants to save this relationship at any and all cost. From what I can see she has desperate low self esteem and victim written all over her, so Sallysman21 has it all over her.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


Jack?????


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## Purple*Orchid (Aug 7, 2016)

He had an 8 month affair and you believe him when he says they didn't have sex.. Right now you shouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. And actually words are cheap, action is what you look for, not words. 

You didn't cheat on him. He should be kissing your ass and making it right instead of hiding behind excuses. In order to save a marriage you have to be willing to lose it.



He may not remember the details because he can't remember which one she was. Cheaters will only tell you what you already know, they will not give you new information. 

I will tell you right now he's playing dumb he remembers and he remembers all of it.

It's been 4 months now since that affair ended and he still has yet to tell you what you want to know, instead of putting your thoughts at ease by knowing what really happened, if you can believe what he tells you about it anyway. 

If he tells you what really happened he would have to change his entire story about what little he has told you. And it's quite possible that the babies the other woman had are his and your son has half siblings. If the time line fits.....


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Personal said:


> Ceegee said:
> 
> 
> > @Sallysman21
> ...


Just out of curiosity, why do you think I have a low self esteem? I am normally pegged as a bit vain and conceited, though, I try not to be. But I do agree with the victim part. I was blessed with a gorgeous face, body, skin, height, long legs, thick hair, the whole package. But it can be a curse too. All my life I have had people want to F me or F me over. In school, I was tormented by the girls because of the attention I got from the guys. Unwanted attention 99% of the time. I pride myself in my education, my mothering skills, I am a great friend, and amazing wife, and amazing dancer and singer. I can pretty much do everything from build a wall in a house, paint a life size portrait, my photography skills have won awards, I am a writer and ghost writer. I make jewelry, make anything out of polymer clay, make very elaborate hairbows for girls, sew amazing costumes, design my own clothing, run in 8 inch heels, play basketball with my daughter in 8 inch heels, cook or bake anything, restore furniture, lay tile, grow a full garden, I was an international buyer and seller at Sterling Inc at the Dallas World Trade Center. I can act, model, I am tattooed, pierced, amazing in bed, I can do yoga, Zumba, write poetry. I have no criminal record, am very spiritual, teach my children to do nice things for others and our Planet (like volunteer work and plant trees, pick up litter). Needlepoint, make hats, weave baskets, and I am a damn good person. I know I deserve better than who I am married to right now, but I also have the gift of seeing good in even the most evil of things. My husband is not evil, he is not a monster. He is human. Humans make mistakes and he has made A LOT of them. But does that mean he will 100% keep making them, no one can say for sure. But I do know one thing that no one else knows, and that is how strong I am. If I gave up on every person who has hurt me, I would be alone. I can either leave and break up our family or I can give him the chance to prove his promises and change his behaviors. I can walk out and be just fine or I can be strong and potentially watch him grow and learn from his mistakes. Either way, I will do just fine. So, make no mistake. My self esteem is very much intact and I don't need any man, or woman to boost my ego. I have worked very hard to get to where I am and no one can take that away from me. His poor choices have no reflection on who I am or how I view myself. 

So please. Explain to me where my self esteem has gone low and exactly where and when did I become desperate? Please do not mistake determination for desperation. And never challenge my self esteem. I am a proud Leo, Native American Hattie who can run circles around this topic all day and night. That? Yeah, that is called Pride.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Jack’sGirl
You want more detail and you want him to stop the crap about “I cannot remember”

*You have enough detail right now to take action*. Your husband admitted to cheating on you when you were pregnant, lied to you about his porn watching, and sexed through words and kissed and groped at work. You NOT taking decisive actions with the great amount of facts that you have already indicates that you have fear, are compromising, and maybe emotionally to dependent on your husband. In addition, you have to suffer because your husband does not trust you and thinks that you will cheat if you have the chance at work. You may just try to get more information so that you do not have to face the information that you do have. *You seem somewhat trapped of your own doing by delaying your actions.*

Your husband does not try and help when he goes to his counselor, even lies to them, calls the poly “bull crap tests” and gets very defensive when they make him aware of his flaws. He also tells us that he has extremely low self-esteem and when he has the opportunity to help you to start to heal by giving up his privacy he tells you that is “punishment”. *It is not punishment but helpful accountability.*

Your husband saw his father commit suicide at age 15, has made several damaging actions AS AN ADULT, and is severely damaged with his emotions and self-esteem. In addition, you said* “His therapist did say he has Narcissistic traits.” *It is a pity that his father did such a traumatic thing in front of him but* you cannot sacrifice yourself for what his father did.*


*Jack’s gir*l
I do not know how strong you are but it would take an extremely strong person in all areas to even have a chance at helping your husband with his messed up life. You may be faced with saving yourself and your children or trying to save your husband. 

Now I realize that you have yourself in a disadvantage right now in the financial department. Right now you are totally at the mercy of your husband with the financial aspect of your life. He has access to everything financially and you have no access to anything. 

*However, there is no good reason why you do not put a plan in motion to get yourself more self-independent in finances.* You have family that can help a lot and you “have an associate degree in psychology, bachelor degree in business, certified preschool teacher and certified veterinarian technician. I have also owned 3 businesses.” What are you waiting for! * Do you want to keep yourself in a dependent position on your husband that has proven that he will chose himself and his selfish desires over you and your children? *If you do not get yourself in a much better financial situation then you will be a puppet to the puppet master (your husband) for the rest of your life. In fact you will not only be a puppet but you will become a door mat.

Based on what you have written I would say that your husband has a very low chance of overcoming most of his serious character flaws enough to help you significantly heal .* You have to ask yourself, using facts not emotions, if you are better off with him or without him. * You can dodge this very important question if you want but you are the only one that will suffer for making the wrong decision. Conversely, if you make the right decision then you will be on your way to a much better life.

Your husband can make very significant improvements and may even be able to help you when he gets a lot stronger. However, that is going to take a lot of time and his TOTAL dedication and submission to the correct professional guidance and therapy. No more of his calling the shots, lying, not talking to counselors, and getting defensive instead of taking guidance and then DOING IT! With his own decisions He has made his life a disaster and has damaged his wife and children. Now is the time for him to allow a professional to guide him instead of him using his thinking. *He may be able to improve significantly but he will have to prove to you with LOTS OF ACTIONS FOR A LONG TIME! Actions always tell the truth more than words and intentions.*



*Bottom line for husband Jack:
Get the right counsel and then you do it, NO EXCUSES!*


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


I was giving her an allowance, recently her oldest son has moved out and she requested that the money go to helping to pay his rent until he gets money of his own.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


Sexual contact being anything physical including kissing, hugging, holding hands, groping, yes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> I was giving her an allowance, recently her oldest son has moved out and she requested that the money go to helping to pay his rent until he gets money of his own.


She said that you gave her an allowance for a couple of months and then stopped it. And she's not sure why.

So Sally, what's up with this?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> Jack?sGirl
> You want more detail and you want him to stop the crap about ?I cannot remember?
> 
> *You have enough detail right now to take action*. Your husband admitted to cheating on you when you were pregnant, lied to you about his porn watching, and sexed through words and kissed and groped at work. You NOT taking decisive actions with the great amount of facts that you have already indicates that you have fear, are compromising, and maybe emotionally to dependent on your husband. In addition, you have to suffer because your husband does not trust you and thinks that you will cheat if you have the chance at work. You may just try to get more information so that you do not have to face the information that you do have. *You seem somewhat trapped of your own doing by delaying your actions.*
> ...


I cannot love this post enough!!! Very wise and articulated. 

Couple of corrections though. At the beginning, he stated that he was 100% positive that it ended before we found out I was pregnant. That was the ONE thing he was "absolutely sure about". when he took the polygraph, the last question was "Did you have sexual contact with ***** after finding out your wife was pregnant?" He answered no. He told the polygrapher that he was worried about the last question because he did not remember exactly when it ended. He did fail that question. Here is the conversation between me and the polygrapher:

Polygrapher: "Did you discuss why that question bothered him so much"

Me: "He says it's because he does not know when it ended, but he has, in writing and witness signatures, that he was POSITIVE he KNOWS it ended before we found out about our son. Now he says that the only reason he failed was because he's not sure when it ended, but he "feels" it ended before then. Except, before the test, he has maintained, this entire time that it ABSOLUTELY ended before. It was the ONLY thing that he had going in his favor is that he was POSITIVE about that."

Polygrapher: "Understood. Sorry I couldnt give you better news"

Me: "I do not think either one of us have a very good understanding of how the polygraph works. He says he remembers it ending before we found out about our son, but he cannot remember exact date. The question was "Did you have sexual contact with ***** after finding out your wife was pregnant?" He says he did not pass ONLY because he does not remember date but KNOWS it was before we found out."

Polygrapher: "The question did not have a date. It was simply before or after you both found out about the pregnancy. If he knew for certain, he would not have had such a reaction. In addition, he told me that he just wasn't absolutely sure if it was before or right after. That would be a good reason he would have had such a reaction. I would suggest running him through a single issue polygraph on that topic"

He has since confessed that it was no more than 2 weeks after we found out about our son. But, in the last couple of days, he has retracted his story again and said he still feels it was before we found out about the pregnancy. 

Also, if I was to leave him, I would have no problems finding employment, a place to live and reliable child care. I have no doubt about that. I can work from home as well. I was trying to be the supportive wife and let him take care of me because it made him proud of himself. But, honestly, I think everyone is correct. It is time to get control back over my life. For myself, regardless of what happens with us. 

He even lied to me about what kind of porn he was watching. I would not have cared if he was watching porn. I even asked him a few times if we could watch it together and he always said he did not like porn. SMH


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > I was giving her an allowance, recently her oldest son has moved out and she requested that the money go to helping to pay his rent until he gets money of his own.
> ...


I got it in May and June of this year only. Then it just stopped. I did want money to go to my oldest son's rent. He just moved out a week ago because he cannot handle being around my husband. But it was never really a "here is your allotted amount on this card". I still had to ask. I think May was the only month that it was really successful. 

He failed to mention that I have been selling some of my things to make sure my son's rent is paid. It is due September 1st. I never know what to expect so I took it upon myself to make sure it will be taken care of in case my allowance is forgotten again. 

Not trying to bash you, hubs. But wanted to put all the facts out there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I was trying to be the supportive wife and let him take care of me because it made him proud of himself.


This seems a little wacky. It seems strange that there is a need for you to be at home and cared for by him to help his self esteem and help him be proud of himself. 

He was made to take on a lot of responsibility at a young age. I wonder if he's got a distorted self of sense that the only time he has any worth is when he's taking care of things.

There are people who do this. They think that the only way they can be loved is if they are doing for someone else and in charge of that. 

Maybe part of why he fell into the affair is that he had zero responsibility and did not have to take care of her and children. It was a chance for him to be free of all that for a bit. A chance for him to just be a 20 year old kid having some naughty fun.

Basically... maybe he needs to give up all this control and responsibility .. .at least enough of it so that he can be more free.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Sometime in October of 2014, I was a couple months into a new job and still getting adjusted to the workplace. The girl didn't work in my same field, but would at times work in the same general area; 20-30 feet probably. We had brief conversations and flirted a little. One day she came up to me an offered me her number when she was leaving, I took it and thought about it for a while, before I left work that day, I decided against it and threw it away. A few days later I went up to her and told her that I was interested in talking to her but I didn't want my wife to find out. She had said that there were other ways to talk that would be more discreet and we started talking on words with friends. Most of the time we spent sexting and just bsing about work or whatever was going on at the time. This would mainly be after I got off work, which was 1:00 AM. And it would be whenever my wife was asleep. I would stay up for a couple hours while unwinding from work and talk to her then. We started talking more about finding a spot where we could meet up physically and have some privacy. I suggested my truck, but she was worried that it was too conspicuous and somebody would see us and didn't like the idea. She suggested the idea of getting a hotel room that she would pay for and either calling in to work or telling my wife that I had to go in on a day that I actually didn't. I didn't see that being possible so that didn't happen either. She came up with another idea about a place right outside of the work building that nobody really ever went to and so we started meeting up there. It was a few times a week at most, as we worked different shifts and she wasn't always able to take a lunch when I would be going in to start my shift or we would be working different days. It would be for 10-15 minutes at most before I clocked in and we would spend most of the time kissing, holding hands, cuddling, groping, or just bsing. This went on for a couple months like this and we would spend the majority of the time just talking through the app. We would bs about work, hobbies, interests, likes and dislikes, sext, what we were doing at the time. We would occasionally send pictures to each other through email. Around the end of the year or at the beginning of the new year, she moved to a different department with very different hours so we ended up spending even less time together in person. For maybe a week and a half, I would go to her department and wait to see if she was going to be able to take a break before I clocked in and started working. After that time, she told me that it was getting too suspicious and that I should stop doing it so I did. Around the middle of January I moved to a different shift and we saw each other even less after that because I started work early in the morning before she even got there. So after that it was only on the few occasions when I would come back from lunch and had a few minutes that we would meet up. By this point we had already started talking about "running away" together, but I never had any intention to leave my wife, part of the reason why the girl broke it off. We also had discussed what it would be like if we ended up getting married and what our kids would look like. As I stated earlier in a previous post, I had also lied to her and told her some horrible things about my wife that weren't even close to being true and looking back on it, that was a way for me to try to lie to myself to try and justify my actions to lessen my guilt and shame for having the affair. So nearing the end of the affair, we spent pretty much all of the time talking through the app and didn't have much physical contact other than seeing each in the workplace. I don't remember when it was that the girl broke it off but she started getting pissy with me saying that I was just a whiny little beach who was too afraid to stand up to the management when they would berate me and get on to me for the way I did things and having a bad attitude. That I wasn't the hardazz that I pretended to be, that she was tired of dealing with my constant complaining about work and that I would never leave my wife. So there was no point in continuing it. I never had sex with her, I never had oral sex with her, giving or receiving. And I can't think of a single time that she was ever in my truck or that I had my fingers in her. As the groping was on the outside of the clothes. On the same token, I can't think of a single time she ever had her hand down my pants either. That's my story.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I was trying to be the supportive wife and let him take care of me because it made him proud of himself.
> ...


I have been telling him that our entire relationship. 

But you are correct. I bet he did have the affair because he was tired of taking care of me (we did not have children at that time). I kept begging him to let me work, but he would always tell me that it made him uncomfortable and he really wanted me to stay at home and continue my crafting and writing. I can see where me sitting at home, doing my hobbies, while he was busting his butt at a job he hated, just to support me (even though technically he could afford not to work), would drive him into another woman's arms. 

I think the most loving thing I could do for him is release him of all responsibility, move myself and our son to Louisiana and let him just have lots of fun with any woman he wants. Get a few STDS, become an alcoholic and drug addict like his father was, not learn any lessons or change his ways. And then when he is 30, and I am remarried and our son has a new Daddy, he might be ready to settle down and have "gotten it out of his system". 

Sorry. That was snarky. I apologize. It's just, the thought of him expressing his feelings on what made him happy, and me complying, caused him to cheat. Well, that just gives him more power and ammo to avoid the real issue and makes me look like a putz for thinking I was honoring him by fulfilling his wishes. So much for being a compliant and good wife. See where it got me.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I was trying to be the supportive wife and let him take care of me because it made him proud of himself.
> ...


I would have to disagree with this. I do enjoy taking care of my wife and being able to provide for her. It's gives me a lot of satisfaction. But it has no prevalence as to why I had the affair, that was a bad habit I had before I even met my wife. Again, it has more to do with my self esteem than anything. I recognize that. So I just feel like I have to reiterate, that me taking care of and providing for her like I love to be able to do, has nothing to do with why I had the affair. I have given up a lot of control since it all came out to my wife but that is more out of realizing I have a lot control issues, and being one of the things that sets her off when I try to control her too much, I've taken actions to relinquish some of that control.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?


No. They don't forget.

He will cheat again, as sure as the sun will come up tommorrow.

There's a BIG difference between crawling on his knees begging for forgiveness for a ONS, and lying to you for MONTHS on end...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I think he does plan to cheat again. .


Then what more do you need to know? Dont you believe for a hot minute he doesnt remember. He most certainly does. 

She dumped him. You're plan B. Don't you think the timing is weird how he's suddenly contrite and sorry and wants to win you back? He got DUMPED.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

From everything I’m reading here, this just sounds like a power struggle. 

Jack – due to circumstances with his father and home life – needs to be in control of things. The money, taking care of Sally, having her not work, etc.

Sally seems to need to be in control of the emotions, the sex life, the home, being the ‘better mate’.

Jack messed up and had an affair, so now Sally wants COMPLETE power – and Jack continues lying because he can’t give up HIS power. 

Jack probably has control issues because of things that have happened in his life that are out of his control, so he needs to be in control of SOMETHING. Jack was probably happy in his marriage, but wanted the side piece for ‘extra’ happiness. Jack’s like has been pretty sh*tty so he craves happiness and ego stroking to feel good. Feeling good is his drug. 

Sally knows her worth – which she’s stated several times here – but also comes across as she feels she is BETTER than Jack. She’s already stated she’s better looking, will age better, she’s more educated, many men want her, etc. Sally is better than Jack in that she didn’t cheat, but outside of that – she really makes it sound like Jack is beneath her. Is it possible Jack cheated because OW made him feel like an equal? Not someone who was under his heel? 

And lastly – at least to me –Sally comes across in these posts like his mother. Nothing about this whole relationship comes across as equal to me, from either side.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> I was giving her an allowance, recently her oldest son has moved out and she requested that the money go to helping to pay his rent until he gets money of his own.


Now she has a son? One that is old enough to move out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37,

How many children do you have and how old are they?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Just out of curiosity, why do you think I have a low self esteem? I am normally pegged as a bit vain and conceited, though, I try not to be. But I do agree with the victim part. I was blessed with a gorgeous face, body, skin, height, long legs, thick hair, the whole package. But it can be a curse too. All my life I have had people want to F me or F me over. In school, I was tormented by the girls because of the attention I got from the guys. Unwanted attention 99% of the time. I pride myself in my education, my mothering skills, I am a great friend, and amazing wife, and amazing dancer and singer. I can pretty much do everything from build a wall in a house, paint a life size portrait, my photography skills have won awards, I am a writer and ghost writer. I make jewelry, make anything out of polymer clay, make very elaborate hairbows for girls, sew amazing costumes, design my own clothing, run in 8 inch heels, play basketball with my daughter in 8 inch heels, cook or bake anything, restore furniture, lay tile, grow a full garden, I was an international buyer and seller at Sterling Inc at the Dallas World Trade Center. I can act, model, I am tattooed, pierced, amazing in bed, I can do yoga, Zumba, write poetry. I have no criminal record, am very spiritual, teach my children to do nice things for others and our Planet (like volunteer work and plant trees, pick up litter). Needlepoint, make hats, weave baskets, and I am a damn good person. I know I deserve better than who I am married to right now, but I also have the gift of seeing good in even the most evil of things. My husband is not evil, he is not a monster. He is human. Humans make mistakes and he has made A LOT of them. But does that mean he will 100% keep making them, no one can say for sure. But I do know one thing that no one else knows, and that is how strong I am. If I gave up on every person who has hurt me, I would be alone. I can either leave and break up our family or I can give him the chance to prove his promises and change his behaviors. I can walk out and be just fine or I can be strong and potentially watch him grow and learn from his mistakes. Either way, I will do just fine. So, make no mistake. My self esteem is very much intact and I don't need any man, or woman to boost my ego. I have worked very hard to get to where I am and no one can take that away from me. His poor choices have no reflection on who I am or how I view myself.
> 
> So please. Explain to me where my self esteem has gone low and exactly where and when did I become desperate? Please do not mistake determination for desperation. And never challenge my self esteem. I am a proud Leo, Native American Hattie who can run circles around this topic all day and night. That? Yeah, that is called Pride.


You forgot, modest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I have been telling him that our entire relationship.
> 
> But you are correct. I bet he did have the affair because he was tired of taking care of me (we did not have children at that time). I kept begging him to let me work, but he would always tell me that it made him uncomfortable and he really wanted me to stay at home and continue my crafting and writing. I can see where me sitting at home, doing my hobbies, while he was busting his butt at a job he hated, just to support me (even though technically he could afford not to work), would drive him into another woman's arms.
> 
> ...


Yea that was snarky.

So we have at least 3 theories of what lead Jack to have an affair. I think that they all apply. 

1) low self esteem.

2) It was an escape from all the responsibility that he piles on himself. Unnecessary responsibility the way.

3) It just makes him feel good to cheat.. to have multiple women in his life. It’s a huge ego boost and it has the effect of boosting the feel-good chemicals in his brain like dopamine, oxytocin, etc. Note that this is also what heavy porn use is very often about. He said that he’s in counseling for sexual addiction. So this one is clearly one of his motivators. It’s his drug of choice.

Quite taking his cheating so personally. You might think that it’s an odd thing to say. But the fact is that his cheating has zero to do with you. It’s all about him. This is who he is. 

Do you know the parable about the scorpion and the frog.

“A scorpion asks a frog to carry it across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.”

Why do you expect him to behave other than according to his nature?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yea that was snarky.
> 
> So we have at least 3 theories of what lead Jack to have an affair. I think that they all apply.
> 
> ...


4th option is he is just too young to be in this kind of relationship clearly with a woman who has a lot more experience than he has. At 21 he should be playing the field, having fun and enjoying himself until he understands the real meaning of responsibility. He is trying desperately to wear his big boy pants when he isn't yet old enough.

So there is that option to consider too.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm still trying to process "i begged him to let me work".

Wtf? How does he get to decide that? Geez.

He's probably afraid you'll do exactly what he does. 

You're wasting your time with this guy.....he isn't hb material.

If you want to be a martyr go ahead but at least do it with your eyes open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37,
> 
> How many children do you have and how old are they?


I have a son who is 18. I lost my virginity at 17 and that resulted in a pregnancy. I was drugged and used and then left to raise him by myself. 

That man hung himself, on Easter, when my son was 6. I did not add anything about him in here because it was irrelevant to the situation at hand. 

I thought we were talking about my husband's infidelity?

If we need to be adding all of our history in here we can. I know my husband has only been in one other relationship where he raped the girl and was known as a "man *****" after that due to the amount of girls he slept with. 

I have been with more women than men, as women are my preference. 

Anything else we should add to figure out why my husband cannot remember the details of his affair? So much that they have changed twice now from the timeline he wrote here, a few night ago and questions asked 4 months ago.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, why do you think I have a low self esteem? I am normally pegged as a bit vain and conceited, though, I try not to be. But I do agree with the victim part. I was blessed with a gorgeous face, body, skin, height, long legs, thick hair, the whole package. But it can be a curse too. All my life I have had people want to F me or F me over. In school, I was tormented by the girls because of the attention I got from the guys. Unwanted attention 99% of the time. I pride myself in my education, my mothering skills, I am a great friend, and amazing wife, and amazing dancer and singer. I can pretty much do everything from build a wall in a house, paint a life size portrait, my photography skills have won awards, I am a writer and ghost writer. I make jewelry, make anything out of polymer clay, make very elaborate hairbows for girls, sew amazing costumes, design my own clothing, run in 8 inch heels, play basketball with my daughter in 8 inch heels, cook or bake anything, restore furniture, lay tile, grow a full garden, I was an international buyer and seller at Sterling Inc at the Dallas World Trade Center. I can act, model, I am tattooed, pierced, amazing in bed, I can do yoga, Zumba, write poetry. I have no criminal record, am very spiritual, teach my children to do nice things for others and our Planet (like volunteer work and plant trees, pick up litter). Needlepoint, make hats, weave baskets, and I am a damn good person. I know I deserve better than who I am married to right now, but I also have the gift of seeing good in even the most evil of things. My husband is not evil, he is not a monster. He is human. Humans make mistakes and he has made A LOT of them. But does that mean he will 100% keep making them, no one can say for sure. But I do know one thing that no one else knows, and that is how strong I am. If I gave up on every person who has hurt me, I would be alone. I can either leave and break up our family or I can give him the chance to prove his promises and change his behaviors. I can walk out and be just fine or I can be strong and potentially watch him grow and learn from his mistakes. Either way, I will do just fine. So, make no mistake. My self esteem is very much intact and I don't need any man, or woman to boost my ego. I have worked very hard to get to where I am and no one can take that away from me. His poor choices have no reflection on who I am or how I view myself.
> ...


Oh no..I am not modest at all.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I have a son who is 18. I lost my virginity at 17 and that resulted in a pregnancy. I was drugged and used and then left to raise him by myself.
> 
> That man hung himself, on Easter, when my son was 6. I did not add anything about him in here because it was irrelevant to the situation at hand.
> 
> ...


Here's the issue. 

When things keep getting added, it confuses people.

When we were talking about financial issues, mentioned your other child. But you did not mention that your current husband is supporting yet another child... a much older one. That's an important detail when talking about financial support.

So how many children in your husband supporting?

And now you say that your husband raped some girl/woman? How are you ok with that?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I have been telling him that our entire relationship.
> ...


So I can better understand what you are saying, are you saying that, since it is nothing having to do with me, I should just accept his cheating as part of who he is, in order to keep him happy? 

There were A LOT of things he had hid from me that I did not find out about until D day. He is VERY good at keeping his "two lives" separate without detection. I will give him that. 

Ok. So. Maybe our solution really is to just have an open marriage. If he needs the boost from numerous women, I can get that. I can wrap my head around that. 

Hubby? What do you think? Open marriage? Remember Jake? I really did think he was a hottie. 

Since you need numerous women, I can go play too, right? What do you think?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> So I can better understand what you are saying, are you saying that, since it is nothing having to do with me, I should just accept his cheating as part of who he is, in order to keep him happy?


Lord no. I’m saying that you need to stop beating yourself up. It’s not that he loves some woman more than you. It’s not that you did something wrong. It’s that he is not capable of loving in a way that he needs to, in a way that you (or any woman) would need in a marriage.

You need to seriously consider that this is who he is. He has problems that make it so that he is a serial cheater. You even said that he raped a woman. So accept that this is him and it’s all on him.

And then you decide if you want to be in a marriage with a guy who cannot respect you and love you in the way that you need. Me? I’d run for the hills.


Jacksgirl37 said:


> There were A LOT of things he had hid from me that I did not find out about until D day. He is VERY good at keeping his "two lives" separate without detection. I will give him that.


Of course he was. That’s standard for people who cheat. It’s also part of the Narcissistic tendencies. They see each person in their lives as something to use to fill a niche. Everything out of that niche is hidden from that person. They use people this way.


Jacksgirl37 said:


> Ok. So. Maybe our solution really is to just have an open marriage. If he needs the boost from numerous women, I can get that. I can wrap my head around that.


Really? Are his needs, based on his seriously damaged self, so important that you are willing to debase yourself like that? Are you going to date other people too? Is he going to go along with that? Do you really need a man in your life so badly that you would agree to this?


Jacksgirl37 said:


> Hubby? What do you think? Open marriage? Remember Jake? I really did think he was a hottie.
> 
> Since you need numerous women, I can go play too, right? What do you think?


Yea, see how he responds to you doing the same thing. The guy who wants to keep you captive at home, with no money, to make sure that you don’t do what he does? LOL

So Jack, are you ok with a completely open marriage?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a son who is 18. I lost my virginity at 17 and that resulted in a pregnancy. I was drugged and used and then left to raise him by myself.
> ...


My oldest son has been supported by me, his survivor benefits, his grandmother, my best friend and my husband's mother. My oldest son JUST moved out a week ago and has not had to pay for anything. The only money that was given to him was $100 from my best friend. So is my husband, or has my husband been supporting my oldest son? No. Not at all. And he was not going to be as my "allowance" I got that one month actually came from his mother and she is not doing it anymore. That is why it stopped and I just found that out this morning. So no. He has not been supporting him and does not plan to support him. Hope that clears that up. 

My 8 year old daughter is 100% supported by her father, who is and has been my best friend for 14 years. So no, he does not financially support her. 

Our 8 month old son. Yes he does financially support him and he does financially support me. So himself, me and our son. That is it. 

The last time I heard he still had around 1.2 million in savings, investments, stocks and bonds, trust funds, and so on. So if he is stressing about the $1,900 a month he pays in bills and food and such, well...maybe he should let me get a job. 

And yes I say "let" because I have landed several jobs and my life was made into my own personal hell because my husband does not want me to work. 

And am I ok about him raping his girlfriend? No. Not at all. But I just found this out a few weeks ago and I have disclosed this info to his family and friends, all who got mad at me and told me it was none of my business. But since we need to add as much info here as possible, I thought adding a characteristic of the man who cheated on me was more relevant to the son he has nothing to do with.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > So I can better understand what you are saying, are you saying that, since it is nothing having to do with me, I should just accept his cheating as part of who he is, in order to keep him happy?
> ...


EXACTLY!  I really want to know his answer to this.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Wait – your husband was in a relationship where he raped a girl? 

And you yourself were drugged and raped?

You’re 37 with a 22 year old who controls your life and has serially cheated on you and can’t remember details, but you stay?

I’d REALLY re-think that self esteem thing that you think you have….


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Wait ? your husband was in a relationship where he raped a girl?
> 
> And you yourself were drugged and raped?
> 
> ...


I just found out about my husband raping his girlfriend. They were 13, I believe?

I was in my first relationship with a male at 17. He gave me some drugs and took advantage of the situation. This went on for a few months and resulted in a child. That was 20 years ago. A lot has happened since then. 

I never saw it as him controlling me. I allowed him to take care of everything because it made him so happy to do it. I did not mind letting him feel needed. That has nothing to do with my self esteem. 

I just found out about all the cheating, flirting, porn, all of it April 16th. What do you think I have been doing? Letting him beat me, go out every night, beating myself up for it, blaming me for everything I did wrong? 

No. I have called BS everytime he says he cannot remember, hence why I am calling him out here. I insisted he start therapy, sexual addiction therapy, took away all of his privacy and typed out an agreement that stated that I would give him 1 year. During that year he must stay in therapy, get the help he needs, have no privacy, read any and every book or article I give him. Participate in getting outside help and support from professionals or those who are or have gone through this, release his sense of control over me, start doing things on his own to find how to save this marriage because I am not doing all the work. 

Wow, my husband has said very little here but he sure has been able to say just the right things to keep the focus off addressing things to him, huh?

Damn, he is better at manipulation than I thought.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


No. Absolutely not. Not happening. Ever.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why as a 35 year old woman would you be married to a 21 year old little kid?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Damn, he is better at manipulation than I thought.


He’s not manipulating this thread. At ALL. You just don’t care to see what people are saying. 

Jack has issues. Sure. Jack’s done some pretty messed up stuff. JACK has to deal with that because that is JACK’s life. JACK will have to answer to God (or whatever you believe in), Jack will have to deal with the Karma bus or what not, Jack has to deal with whatever consequences are sent Jacks way from all of this.

YOU do not. You can EASILY walk away from this one. And you have PLENTY of reason to. Probably some of the best reasons to walk that I’ve seen on this board since I’ve been here. But yet you choose not to walk………..after knowing all of this and seeing what people are telling you. 

This is honestly so incredible it’s ALMOST comical.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

This isn't about her choices in choosing me as a husband. This is about us trying to restore and creating a new, healthy, stronger and better marriage after my life destroying choices. Can we get back on the subject that the thread is actually trying to accomplish?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> 4th option is he is just too young to be in this kind of relationship clearly with a woman who has a lot more experience than he has.


And now it appears at 21, he's saddled with keeping up her son who is probably and 18 year old slug playing video games all day and she purportedly likes women more than men, hence_ "I have been with more women than men, as women are my preference."_
One another note, have ya'll heard about the new movie "Split" by M. Night Shyamalan about a guy with multiple personalities. For some reason something made me think about it.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> manfromlamancha said:
> 
> 
> > 4th option is he is just too young to be in this kind of relationship clearly with a woman who has a lot more experience than he has.
> ...


Again, not relevant to the actual importance of the thread, so please get back on topic in regards to comments and advice. We are looking for advice on how to rebuild and reconcile.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Sallysman21 said:


> This isn't about her choices in choosing me as a husband. This is about us trying to restore and creating a new, healthy, stronger and better marriage after my life destroying choices. Can we get back on the subject that the thread is actually trying to accomplish?


I think the only answer to this is no. There simply is no advice that would achieve this with you in position of "husband".


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Hi! I am the Betrayed Spouse but my wayward spouses will be posting under this topic as well. We both need insight on how to come to an understanding on full disclosure. Here is from my perspective. We will talk freely here.
> 
> We started a relationship in December of 2013. We married quickly in January of 2014. In December of 2013, he slept with another girl and flirted with a Co worker for a few weeks too, trying to have sex with her as well.
> 
> ...


To you --

He's lying. Stop buying into his bullsh*t.

To your husband --

Cut the bullsh*t, man up, and tell the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> Sometime in October of 2014, I was a couple months into a new job and still getting adjusted to the workplace. The girl didn't work in my same field, but would at times work in the same general area; 20-30 feet probably. We had brief conversations and flirted a little. One day she came up to me an offered me her number when she was leaving, I took it and thought about it for a while, before I left work that day, I decided against it and threw it away. A few days later I went up to her and told her that I was interested in talking to her but I didn't want my wife to find out. She had said that there were other ways to talk that would be more discreet and we started talking on words with friends.


When did you start talking on words with friends? Whose idea was it to use words with friends? Did you use any other apps or ways to communicate? If so, what and when?



Sallysman21 said:


> Most of the time we spent sexting and just bsing about work or whatever was going on at the time. This would mainly be after I got off work, which was 1:00 AM. And it would be whenever my wife was asleep. I would stay up for a couple hours while unwinding from work and talk to her then.


Can you recall any conversations that you had? Did you ever masterbate while sexting with her? Where would you be, while I was sleeping in our bed, and you were talking to her? How much about my life did you share with her? How much about my children? 



Sallysman21 said:


> We started talking more about finding a spot where we could meet up physically and have some privacy. I suggested my truck, but she was worried that it was too conspicuous and somebody would see us and didn't like the idea.


Your truck has tinted windows and you both would have a lot more privacy there then in the smoking gazebo right outside of TLE that you said you two would meet at. Management went out there and it was right outside the area HER husband worked. So can you see why this does not add up for me? And something about a shed, you spoke of once? 




Sallysman21 said:


> She suggested the idea of getting a hotel room that she would pay for and either calling in to work or telling my wife that I had to go in on a day that I actually didn't. I didn't see that being possible so that didn't happen either. She came up with another idea about a place right outside of the work building that nobody really ever went to and so we started meeting up there. It was a few times a week at most, as we worked different shifts and she wasn't always able to take a lunch when I would be going in to start my shift or we would be working different days. It would be for 10-15 minutes at most before I clocked in and we would spend most of the time kissing, holding hands, cuddling, groping, or just bsing.


WOW, she had a lot of suggestions. You would think she had done this before. And how do I know you did not do the hotel thing? Yes, the smoking gazebo where it is very open for everyone to see is much more private. Right! Now, in your time lines you gave me you said no more than 2 or 3 times per week and no more than 10 minutes each time. You also said you stuck your hand down her pants but could not remember if you fingered her, but it was possible. And you were "always shoving her hand down your pants". So where is the info about this? And what was you said about her kissing? And what was it the surveillance cameras caught? Oh yes, her straddling you, both of you siting up and her rocking back and forth and you with your hands on her ass? 



Sallysman21 said:


> This went on for a couple months like this and we would spend the majority of the time just talking through the app. We would bs about work, hobbies, interests, likes and dislikes, sext, what we were doing at the time. We would occasionally send pictures to each other through email. Around the end of the year or at the beginning of the new year, she moved to a different department with very different hours so we ended up spending even less time together in person.


What kind of pictures? How many did you send and of what? How many did she send and of what? Why did you leave that one, non nude, of you to her in your sent box? That was from over a year ago and it was THE ONLY EMAIL IN YOUR SENT BOX. Which means you have been deleting every other sent message from that email, for a year, except that one. Even including the ones you sent me and your mom. But always careful to not delete that one. Why? Why did you smirk, grin and look away when I asked you if you ever saw her face in those photos? How much "less time"? If it was only 2 to 3 times a week to start. How much less did it drop down to?



Sallysman21 said:


> For maybe a week and a half, I would go to her department and wait to see if she was going to be able to take a break before I clocked in and started working. After that time, she told me that it was getting too suspicious and that I should stop doing it so I did.


Is that because her husband was working there? You even spoke to her husband a few times, huh? Being chummy with him. How did that feel? And I even met HER once, huh? As she so rudely told me in her "confession". "We even met once and you had noooooooo clue. I just smiled as you both walked away." Yeah, she was a real sweet girl. Ha! And what was it she said when she realized I was not the monster you made me out to be? How did she react when she realized I was sexy and modeling at the time? How did that conversation go? 




Sallysman21 said:


> Around the middle of January I moved to a different shift and we saw each other even less after that because I started work early in the morning before she even got there. So after that it was only on the few occasions when I would come back from lunch and had a few minutes that we would meet up. By this point we had already started talking about "running away" together, but I never had any intention to leave my wife, part of the reason why the girl broke it off. We also had discussed what it would be like if we ended up getting married and what our kids would look like. As I stated earlier in a previous post, I had also lied to her and told her some horrible things about my wife that weren't even close to being true and looking back on it, that was a way for me to try to lie to myself to try and justify my actions to lessen my guilt and shame for having the affair. So nearing the end of the affair, we spent pretty much all of the time talking through the app and didn't have much physical contact other than seeing each in the workplace.


Where were you going to run off to? How, when? Give some details on how those conversations went. What things did you say to her about me? Don't be shy. We both know they are not true, so just tell me. Did you tell her you were going to leave me at any time? Did she say she was going to leave her husband at any time? Did you ask her to marry you or tell her you wanted to marry her? When you switched shifts, when did you two talk through the app (s)???




Sallysman21 said:


> I don't remember when it was that the girl broke it off but she started getting pissy with me saying that I was just a whiny little beach who was too afraid to stand up to the management when they would berate me and get on to me for the way I did things and having a bad attitude. That I wasn't the hardazz that I pretended to be, that she was tired of dealing with my constant complaining about work and that I would never leave my wife. So there was no point in continuing it.


Do you remember when we found out about me being pregnant? And you remember that you and her broke up. So how can you not remember if it was before or after we found out I was pregnant? I do not believe it for one second. You even failed this on the polygraph. 



Sallysman21 said:


> I never had sex with her, I never had oral sex with her, giving or receiving. And I can't think of a single time that she was ever in my truck or that I had my fingers in her. As the groping was on the outside of the clothes. On the same token, I can't think of a single time she ever had her hand down my pants either. That's my story.


But you told me you did put your hand down her pants and shoved her hand down her pants and you are telling me your hands did not go underneath each other's shirts but you were willing to get married, have sex, throw away your marriages? I have a problem with answers that start with "I can't think of a single time". And what was it she told me? Oh yes, "And he likes it rough. And he tells me when he is Fu**ing the S**t out of you, he is thinking of me".


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I seriously feel like I'm watching a bad episode of Jerry Springer.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> manfromlamancha said:
> 
> 
> > 4th option is he is just too young to be in this kind of relationship clearly with a woman who has a lot more experience than he has.
> ...


Have you even read all of the comments? Everything you just mentioned has been thoroughly covered. 

I have slept with 7 men in my 37 years and over 50 girls (yes, I know that will get me bashed. I spent several years not wanting to settle down and I had a lot of opportunity. I'm sure this will be the reason my husband cheated, the reason I have a low self esteem and the reason I have not left my husband. All because I was once a ****ty **** with the females.)

Let's add more fuel to the fire. Let's see how this can be twisted into the mix. My son has Bipolar (his father did as well), antisocial disorder and Crohn's disease. He has to give himself a shot of Humira every two weeks. If he does not stay in remission he will have to start Remicaid again which is a form of chemotherapy. He reads. Constantly. He is quiet, sweet, smart, socially awkward and has been reading since he was 2. I love him dearly and he has been through a lot with his dad committing suicide. No, my husband does not take care of my son. I take care of him. He is my baby and I am very protective of him. So how dare you bring him into this and how dare you speak poorly of him. May Karma stare you in the face and smile before devouring you whole. I have nothing left to say to you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save.


So in less than 3 years, you have cheated on her - or TRIED to cheat on her at least half a dozen times. What, exactly is you reason you want to save this marriage - assuming she will not let you cheat any more? What is it you're thinking you'll get out of it? Sex whenever you want it? Someone to cook for you? Wash your clothes? Show off? 

Gotta be something like that, cos you obviously don't LOVE her.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> I seriously feel like I'm watching a bad episode of Jerry Springer.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A few years ago there was a couple that did something similar on here. It was interesting to watch in a horror movie sort of way. The most interesting thing was that they did not even talk to each other. They would hit reply but then say something completely unrelated to whatever they were replying to.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Dude,

You keep stepping in it more and more while she's ripping you a knew one. Maybe you need to tap out.


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are looking for advice on how to rebuild and reconcile.


What kind of advice are you looking for? If she wants to reconcile, and its her prerogative, listen to her requirements, give her your best account of what went on with no more of this horse shyt about you don't recall, keep your dyck in your pants, get rid of the female work buddies, if you can't keep your shyt hooks off the phone texting chicks, get rid of the phone. 
You know what you need to do so quit being a douche about it and like Nike sez, "just do it". If you can't make her the one and only chick in your life because you need the attention of other chicks, tell her and cut her loose. It ain't rocket science my man.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> So in less than 3 years, you have cheated on her - or TRIED to cheat on her at least half a dozen times. What, exactly is you reason you want to save this marriage - assuming she will not let you cheat any more? What is it you're thinking you'll get out of it? Sex whenever you want it? Someone to cook for you? Wash your clothes? Show off?
> 
> Gotta be something like that, cos you obviously don't LOVE her.


He is never going to answer this.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Dude,
> 
> You keep stepping in it more and more while she's ripping you a knew one. Maybe you need to tap out.


:rofl:

Hollywood couldn't come up with better sh!t than this.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> LosingHim said:
> 
> 
> > I seriously feel like I'm watching a bad episode of Jerry Springer.....
> ...


At least we are trying to stay on topic. And do not think that all of the advice here is falling on deaf ears. But I am just staying on the topic I started at the moment.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I have slept with 7 men in my 37 years and over *50 girls*....


:surprise:


:grin2: That's hot!


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > We are looking for advice on how to rebuild and reconcile.
> ...


I applaud you. This is actually good advice. Now, will he listen?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I applaud you. This is actually good advice. Now, will he listen?


No one would take my bets.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I have slept with 7 men in my 37 years and over *50 girls*....
> ...


Not really. I find it a bit of destructive behavior. I just could not find a way to allow myself to make a meaningful connection to one of them to stay committed. I always let them know that I was not looking for something serious. One of the few girls that I did make a commitment to ended up dying in our bed of a heroine overdose. I woke up and she was dead. I had not idea she was even using. She never even drank. The corner and police said that it appeared she recently started using and misjudged how much she could handle. She was a tiny little pixie of a girl. I was so lost and devastated after that. Riddled with guilt for not even knowing that my girlfriend was using drugs. After that I think I just kept trying to find her in every girl I slept with. 

Oh crap. See? Now I have gotten way off topic. Sheepshead. We are never going to get anywhere. 

But no, I am not proud of that fact but I will say that I miss her every day and I miss women. Truth.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Good lord, lots of deaths in your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

NobodySpecial said:


> A few years ago there was a couple that did something similar on here. It was interesting to watch in a horror movie sort of way. The most interesting thing was that they did not even talk to each other. They would hit reply but then say something completely unrelated to whatever they were replying to.


Carrie/Walter
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> badmemory said:
> 
> 
> > Dude,
> ...


I would love it if Dr Phil would take our story. Maybe if enough people write in. Get my husband's AP and her husband on there. 

Her husband and my husband can hang out and be all buddy buddy, since, when we spoke to him on the phone so he could confess the affair, the dude yelled at me for being rude back to his wife (after she viciously attacked me while confessing about their affair) but was all nice and forgiving to my husband. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone!

You would all be like, "This...sounds...familiar". Lol


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> No, my husband does not take care of my son. I take care of him. He is my baby and I am very protective of him. So how dare you bring him into this and how dare you speak poorly of him. May Karma stare you in the face and smile before devouring you whole. I have nothing left to say to you.


You said yourself your husband keeps a roof over both of you and food on the table so yes your husband does take care of him. Consider yourself lucky despite you giving no credit to your old man (who is apparently willing to support a handicapped guy not much younger than he is.) 
BTW, since you mentioned Louisiana, my momma's family are Cajuns and I'll tell dim to get ole Loup Garou to take care of Karma before he gets me.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Not really. I find it a bit of destructive behavior. I just could not find a way to allow myself to make a meaningful connection to one of them to stay committed. I always let them know that I was not looking for something serious. One of the few girls that I did make a commitment to ended up dying in our bed of a heroine overdose. I woke up and she was dead. I had not idea she was even using. She never even drank. The corner and police said that it appeared she recently started using and misjudged how much she could handle. She was a tiny little pixie of a girl. I was so lost and devastated after that. Riddled with guilt for not even knowing that my girlfriend was using drugs. After that I think I just kept trying to find her in every girl I slept with.
> 
> Oh crap. See? Now I have gotten way off topic. Sheepshead. We are never going to get anywhere.
> 
> But no, I am not proud of that fact but I will say that I miss her every day and I miss women. Truth.


I'm one of the resident smart-asses. 

My advice? Divorce this guy. He's a typical entitled cheater, and he will not change.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I would love it if Dr Phil would take our story. Maybe if enough people write in. Get my husband's AP and her husband on there.
> 
> Her husband and my husband can hang out and be all buddy buddy, since, when we spoke to him on the phone so he could confess the affair, the dude yelled at me for being rude back to his wife (after she viciously attacked me while confessing about their affair) but was all nice and forgiving to my husband. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone!
> 
> You would all be like, "This...sounds...familiar". Lol


Or you could do the mentally healthy thing. I know. Crazy talk.


----------



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Sometime in October of 2014, I was a couple months into a new job and still getting adjusted to the workplace. The girl didn't work in my same field, but would at times work in the same general area; 20-30 feet probably. We had brief conversations and flirted a little. One day she came up to me an offered me her number when she was leaving, I took it and thought about it for a while, before I left work that day, I decided against it and threw it away. A few days later I went up to her and told her that I was interested in talking to her but I didn't want my wife to find out. She had said that there were other ways to talk that would be more discreet and we started talking on words with friends.
> ...


I don't remember when we started using it. It was probably that day or a couple days after that. I don't remember whose idea it was. And I only remember using words with friends and when we would send pictures through email.

Like I've told you before. I remember her saying the she either grew up in the San Fransisco area or something like that because she was a fan of the 49ers and a Giants fan. She cooked a lot and like Supernatutal. No, I can't think of any time I did that while we were sexting. And usually I was in the living room playing video games. I don't know what I shared with her other than the lies that I fed her and told her about the kids.

Yeah, I can see why you would see it that way but I'm just telling you how it happened. And it was an idea I had later on about where we could have sex but we never got around to it obviously because I never had sex with her. 

Well obviously so, she is a wh0re and as you told me, had even been arrested for prositution before and had been going on with several different guys. There's no way for you to know, but it didn't happen. Plain and simple. I didn't say that, I said that I probably tried sticking my hand down her pants and that I probably tried to get her to stick her hand down mine. I'm not denying this possibility but it's not in my memories that this ever happened and that I supposedly fingered her. I'm not discounting the possibility but I can't think of a single time it ever happened. She was a terrible, sloppy kisser. And I've never seen this supposed camera footage so I can't say anything about it.

Usually body pictures. How am I supposed to remember how many were sent back and forth? And like I said, they were usually body pictures. I don't know why I didn't delete it. I thought I deleted all of them after I sent them but I obviously missed that one. It probably dropped down to maybe once a week or less. 

No, he hadn't started working there yet. I don't remember the details about that conversation or really any of the conversations we had. I would assume the general gist of it was her telling me that I lied to her and said that you weren't anything as I described. 

"Atlantis" is where we would "run off to". I said the you were like the worlds fattest woman. That you were always fighting with me. That you didn't want to have any kids with me and that you didn't want to marry me. No, I never said I was going to leave you. And no, I don't remember her ever saying she was going to leave her husband. No, I never asked her to marry me, we just talked about what it would be like if we were. Whenever I was at work or whenever you weren't around and I had a couple moments to reply to a message. This drastically dropped off because there was less time and ability to do so. 

Yes, I remember when you told me you were pregnant. And I don't remember when it was that it ended. But seeing as I don't ever remember telling her you were pregnant or having any conversation about it. And her husband had already started working there. That is why I feel it ended before. Like I said, I don't remember when it ended, I can only tell you that I feel it ended before that. And I don't care if I failed it on the polygraph because once again, I don't remember when it ended. 

Again, I said that I probably did try to stick my hand down hers or stick hers down mine. I'm not discounting that it's possible or probable. But I can't think of a single time it actually happened. I never said we were willing to get married. We talked about what it would be like. Not actually doing it. And yes, because I was probably "rough" and domineering when we would sext.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> Good lord, lots of deaths in your life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are not kidding. I swear I am cursed or something. It is not just me, my husband too.

I have lost:
My real father to heart failure in 2000
My brother to suicide at Thanksgiving 08
My oldest son's father to suicide at Easter 04
My best friend in a fire when I was 12
My girlfriend to heroine overdose when I was 22
My son's paternal Grandmother to suicide 
My son's paternal uncle to suicide 
2 of my best friends were murdered by their husband's
My 3 year old step brother to accidental shooting 
And several other family and friends

My husband...well, he would have to share that list but it is about as long as mine.

We don't have much family left, to think about it.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > No, my husband does not take care of my son. I take care of him. He is my baby and I am very protective of him. So how dare you bring him into this and how dare you speak poorly of him. May Karma stare you in the face and smile before devouring you whole. I have nothing left to say to you.
> ...


My oldest son? He does not live here. Please read over All comments before posting about this again. Thanks.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> This isn't about her choices in choosing me as a husband. This is about us trying to restore and creating a new, healthy, stronger and better marriage after my life destroying choices. Can we get back on the subject that the thread is actually trying to accomplish?


You and your wife's kind of broken can't create a healthy, stronger and better marriage.

Infidelity is just one of the symptoms of a much greater malaise that appears to be inherent in both of you.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> What is it you're thinking you'll get out of it? Sex whenever you want it? Someone to cook for you? Wash your clothes? Show off?
> 
> Gotta be something like that, cos you obviously don't LOVE her.


Maybe he wants her to mother him?


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

My worry is, since you forget so much...what if you forget our son in the car one day? Or you forget your married again and accidentally let your dong slip into another woman and then you forget about it, remember me again and give me AIDS? Or you forget where you live for a few weeks? I mean, if you can forget big events like those that you have forgotten, how can you be 100% sure that you won't forget more important events?


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

My last post I will make on here. It is obvious that he will not answer my questions, still. Big surprise. And even change his story and add in just enough tiny details to provide a trickle truth. 

So, with that 100% comple knowledge, I have a lot to think about and decisions to be made. 

Thank you to everyone who participated in our crazy, wonky game of life. I hope you were entertained and now are more thankful that you might be finding your situation is "not as bad as it could be".

Blessed be to all.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My last post I will make on here. It is obvious that he will not answer my questions, still. Big surprise. And even change his story and add in just enough tiny details to provide a trickle truth.
> 
> So, with that 100% comple knowledge, I have a lot to think about and decisions to be made.
> 
> ...


Entertained? No. Just saddened that such things can happen.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> And yes I say "let" because I have landed several jobs and my life was made into my own personal hell because my husband does not want me to work.


So are you saying that your husband emotionally abuses you when you try to do something that's important to you like take a job?

Specifics, please. How was your life 'made into your own personal hell?' By whom and how?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I insisted he start therapy, sexual addiction therapy, took away all of his privacy and typed out an agreement that stated that I would give him 1 year.


Uh, the dude's 22 years old. That's not sex addiction. That's a normal sex drive for someone barely out of his teens.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> VladDracul said:
> 
> 
> > Jacksgirl37 said:
> ...


From what has been said previously by you and your husband, your older son lived in the same home with your husband and you until the last two months for so.

Who paid your son's portion of the bills. Did the SS money go to pay 1/5 of all utilities, food, etc? Your son lived in your MIL's house for free I assume since you are not making house payments.

So unless you reimbursed your husband with some of your son's SS money for your son's living expenses, your husband gets credit for helping to support your son.

The same goes for your daughter. How much of the child support from her father goes towards household bills?

Not an inquisition here. Just trying to be fair where credit is due. Your husband as some problems. He's done some bad things. But he's also done some good things.

Being fair to BOTH of you.


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My oldest son? He does not live here. Please read over All comments before posting about this again. Thanks.


Your oldest is the slug I was talking about. I specifically mentioned the 18 year old and you went into a diatribe about your son's poor health and how you hope Kama comes down to smite me so it ain't much of a stretch to think he's living with you and the one your husband is supporting. Hence, 



Jacksgirl37 said:


> No, my husband does not take care of my son. I take care of him. He is my baby and I am very protective of him.


So do you have kids living with you or are you talking about the 18 year old living elsewhere and somebody else dealing with his health problems?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sallysman21 said:


> Again, not relevant to the actual importance of the thread, so please get back on topic in regards to comments and advice. We are looking for advice on how to rebuild and reconcile.


Actually, everything about y'all's lives is relevant to the topic at hand. It is all intertwined. I'm not surprised you can't see that, at your age. My daughter is 5 years older than you and she can barely understand how the world works.

But it's basic psychology, and ALL of one's decisions go into the mix when considering how to fix a marriage.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > VladDracul said:
> ...


My oldest son paid his portion of all bills and bought his own food and clothing. 

As I stated a couple of times. My daughter's father has been and continues to pay 100% of anything for her. Bills, clothes, food, school stuff, everything. 

Has my husband purchased gifts for my other 2 children? Yes. I am not trying to not give him credit where credit is due. 

But the question at hand is...is he having to financially, physically and emotionally support two children that are not his? 

The answer is no. He has not been and won't be. 

Most of the money that is spent comes from his mother and his deceased Grandfather's estate. If I told you how much money was there, you would not believe me. 

Money is not an issue. It should not even be part of the equation of this situation. 

Can you please explain to me why it keeps being brought up?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My oldest son paid his portion of all bills and bought his own food and clothing.
> 
> As I stated a couple of times. My daughter's father has been and continues to pay 100% of anything for her. Bills, clothes, food, school stuff, everything.
> 
> ...


It keeps being brought up because it's relevant to your relationship. Believe me, I'm a step mother who raised and 100% supported my step children. So I know the impact this can have. 

Knowing this helps to clarify a lot of the dynamics of your relationship. And yes it's all relevant.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here, this explains the relevance more clearly.




turnera said:


> Actually, everything about y'all's lives is relevant to the topic at hand. It is all intertwined. I'm not surprised you can't see that, at your age. My daughter is 5 years older than you and she can barely understand how the world works.
> 
> But it's basic psychology, and ALL of one's decisions go into the mix when considering how to fix a marriage.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personal said:


> Maybe he wants her to mother him?


That's my guess. Honestly, a LOT of men marry a woman expecting her to replace their mother (do all the 'female' stuff) as well as give hot sex, so that they can continue feeling complete - got the woman at home holding down the fort just like Mom did, so I can go out and do man's work, and then come home and have the sex, too.

Not a dis, just observation over the years.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My last post I will make on here. It is obvious that he will not answer my questions, still. Big surprise. And even change his story and add in just enough tiny details to provide a trickle truth.
> 
> So, with that 100% comple knowledge, I have a lot to think about and decisions to be made.
> 
> ...


I'm struggling with something.

You husband absolutely needs to answer your reasonable questions until you have no more questions. This could be something that you need for a year or two. Yes a year or two, and fairly often. And he needs to answer them over and over until you are done with this (I mean sick and tired of it all).

But there is also a fine line between you asking questions in a legitimate fashion and you beating up on him.

Some of your questions seem to be in the beating up on him category. For example what day he started to use some chat program. Come on. He used it during the entire affair. You don't really need a date. Pick your questions carefully so that you do not cross in the the badgering side of things.

He also has to feel safe enough to answer. If you attack him every time he answers, he's not going to answer anything in the future.

It's a fine line. You will need to go back through the posts and see what you think about this.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > My oldest son paid his portion of all bills and bought his own food and clothing.
> ...


So now what do you say that you know he has not been supporting them? My oldest, before he moved out, stayed in his room and read. He is very antisocial. They barely spoke.

My daughter has her dad and I who take care of her. My husband will read to her and our 8 month old at night, and we do family meals. He helps her with her math homework because he is REALLY good at math and loves teaching it. But other than that...her dad and I do the rest. 

So what do you say now that you know the full dynamic of the situation with the little involvement he has with my other two children and 0% financial responsibility for them?


----------



## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> *Please go find a good job.* You need to work. It's part of you feeling safe. It's part of you feeling that you have control over your own life.





sapientia said:


> This^. If your H wants to reconcile, make this part of your condition. You deserve a career. Besides, don't you want to be married by CHOICE, not because you feel you MUST?


Is there a reason you are ignoring this excellent advice?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> So now what do you say that you know he has not been supporting them? My oldest, before he moved out, stayed in his room and read. He is very antisocial. They barely spoke.


What do I say. Well clearly the facts are that your husband does not financially support them. But he does get credit for having them live in his home.. yes it’s your home too. But step parenting is hard at any level.

Was he anti-social before moving into a home with Jack?

But.. most kids do not like their step parent. They did not pick that person to be in their lives and don’t want anything to do with it. Then your son also watches how your husband threats you. Clearly he has good reason to be anti-social.




Jacksgirl37 said:


> My daughter has her dad and I who take care of her. My husband will read to her and our 8 month old at night, and we do family meals. He helps her with her math homework because he is REALLY good at math and loves teaching it. But other than that...her dad and I do the rest.


Ok. But again, Jack does get some credit for being an involved step dad.


Jacksgirl37 said:


> So what do you say now that you know the full dynamic of the situation with the little involvement he has with my other two children and 0% financial responsibility for them?


I think that it’s good that he is not taking on the full financial burden of raising your other two children. But he does still have them in his home and still does the step-father thing. He gets credit for that.

What I’ve been saying. It’s a crock that Jack will not “let” you work. It’s a crock that he made your life hell when you did work. And it’s hard to understand why you allow him to push you around like that. 

If he wants you to no work, then he needs to make you financially independent to a degree that you feel safe.


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

turnera said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe he wants her to mother him?
> ...


I would agree except that he likes to do everything himself or together. 

When he was working, he would constantly beg me to wait until he got home to cook and clean. It made him happiest if I just spent time with the kids, unless they were in school or asleep, and do my hobbies (crafting of all kinds, writing, reading). Then when he got home, he would want us to cook together (except when he was working, for a short time, until 1am. But he switch shifts very quick) and he loved to clean or us to turn on swing music and dance and clean together. He does the laundry. He is very OCD about the laundry and he actually likes doing it. We both hate bathrooms, my mother does not mind doing them, so he hired her to clean them twice a week. 

Now that he is not working, we do everything together. We have our own hobbies (He likes playing baseball on the Xbox one and he loves his sports), so we do have separate identities of course. We just have no desire to go out to bars or go hang out with friends. Especially since we only have 2 sets of "couple" friends here and they are always busy. We all hang out when we can. Our other friends are in Texas. We don't do drugs or drink. We do use vapors. We love certain shows on Netflix. NCIS is one of our top faves. We love classic movies, swing music, dancing barefoot on the beach to classic love songs, classic car shows. He is very old fashioned in the sense that he opens the door for me, everytime, even in the car. He pulls my chair out for me at meals. The list could go on. I guess if you all want to ask questions to get a better idea of who we are and our past, well..ask away.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Those sound like wonderful qualities in a man; I can see why you want to stay with him. So how to get him to stay committed, that's the question. I think your first step should be to get him to print out a timeline of ALL the girls he's flirted with since he met you. Sit down together and discuss it all, the why, the how, let him see how each one affected you. it's going to be hard for a 22 year old to fathom what it feels like to be on the receiving end of this, so the more communication you have, the better.

the second thing to talk about is the inequality in the relationship. Discuss, set up some new 'rules' about how the family's going to work, and discuss the consequences that will come if one of you breaks the rules.

PS, did you know Denozo has a new tv show starting this fall?


----------



## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > My last post I will make on here. It is obvious that he will not answer my questions, still. Big surprise. And even change his story and add in just enough tiny details to provide a trickle truth.
> ...


I do agree with you there. That is why I texted him: 

I want to first start by apologizing for being a *****. That was not productive of me. Second, I want to explain with you what my true hang up is about all of this and what has caused me to feel trapped in my own personal hell. I want to truly describe this and pour my heart into it. I want you to hear it, feel it, touch it, learn from it, read it more than once and let it set with you for awhile. I want you to take it all in, accept it and truly appreciate how vulnerable I am about to be with you. 

Everything I have gone through in my life has been either good or horrific. But I have been able to cope with all of it, and grieve and move past it; learn and grow from it. Even when I was raped. It was clear cut what was being done to me and why, and I got help immediately for it. I had a lot of support and rest, comforting words of hope and no judgments when I would cry, scream, have nightmares. Same with deaths in my life. I was able to process. I had all of the info and a lot of support. 

Now the worse thing that has EVER happened in my life was learning that the love of my life, the father of my child, the this-time-I-finally-got-it-right, happily ever after....had been lying and cheating on me. But here is the thing. Not only was I told by the most vicious wh0re I have ever known, but in the most malicious manner possible. Afterwards, I did not have any safety, details to process, had to fight hard to get the help I needed, had to beg to be saved from drowning, had to then live with the person who hurt me the worse as he kept hurting me and lying to me. There was no way to grieve, there was no true support, their were no details to process, I was all alone in a world I did not recognize anymore. I was drowning and ignored. I was in a house full of pain, avoidance, gaslighting, and I was smothered with your anger, unable to even walk away to breathe without you grabbing me and holding me down so that you could shout your pain at me. I was lost, scared, invaded, paralyzed, left in a dark world that I could not escape from. I did not even know who I was anymore and I let you let me make bad choices to please you. I tried to hold onto any limb of detail you held out for me to grab, but then you would yank it back, changing your story, only to let me drown some more. 

Imagine if someone was to come to your home, invade your space and happy life. They start beating you with a baseball bat and screaming at you. Just before they knock the wind out of you, they hold you under water, shouting at you that your entire world is a lie, everyone is dead and you are all alone. They accuse you that it was all your fault and point out your flaws. They keep holding you under and no one is there to save you. You are watching the walls crumble, hearing the distant cry of a baby who needs you, you cannot move, you cannot breathe. 'Surely someone will come save me, right?' You think to yourself. Everything you thought you knew, you thought was your reality, is now tainted with the truth that it was all deception. Yet you still have no true details of why, what, how on Earth all this happened. You do not know what is real or imagined. Your fears are validated by the actions of those around you. They enable the idea that your very self, mind, body and soul, was the one to cause this. 

Not once have you come to me, sat me down, started from the beginning and told me why my world has crumbled, while holding me, gently explaining what all happened and how you felt then, letting every detail sink in for me to process, speaking softly, with remorse and reminding me it was then and how you feel now, reminding me it's not my fault and I am not drowning. Exposing all of your bad mistakes, flaws, bad choices and giving me all the puzzle pieces to put the full picture together so I can face it, process it, learn from it and realize that it was then, and all you feel now is remorse, true remorse and will help me heal. Will let me breathe when I need to, will let me cry when I need to, will let me ask questions if I am having difficulty processing a piece of the puzzle, answering truthfully, and without a callous tone. Gently reminding me you are here and sorry, the whole way through. Because the way I found out, and have had to process it, has been much more like the first scenario. And you have no idea how strong I have had to become to actually survive that. 

So strong that I have realized that neither of us are prepared to have a healthy marriage right now. I have to do what is best, with what I do have. And the best thing for me is for us to temporarily separate. So that you can get the help to give me that second scenario and we can grow from something healthier that what has been bestowed upon me. So that I can begin to heal without having your anger, pain, self pity, and YOUR needs getting in the way of my recovery from what you brought into our lives. When I am crying out in pain, hearing you sigh, watching you roll your eyes...your yelling and screaming, defending your bad choices. It is not helpful in my healing and recovery. My kids...myself...we all need this. I have to heal. I have to process. And I could have done it with you, but you chose to work against me and I have had very little support from others. I am strong enough now to realize that I must let the old you go. If the new and wiser you returns...we were meant to be. If not, I still have my strength and dignity and I now know, I will be just fine, in time. With or without you. I do not NEED you, I want you. But the you I want has to find himself. Don't get lost. Don't lose your way. Now, I am going to go and find mine. I am strong. So very strong. I love you. 

We can be friends and raise our baby boy together. Pour all our love into him and ourselves to heal, recover, restore. I know, in the end, I will have done everything I can to be the person I want to be. It is up to you to do the same for yourself. We can still do recovery work together, we can still go to marriage counseling. No, I am not going to be with anyone else. I'm staying focused on the end prize. To win my life back. To be healthier, better, more solid and more independent. To know my boundaries and how to stick by them. To love myself. In order to love 'us' again, we must learn how to love ourselves. If you see this for what it truly is, and do not fight me on it, I will remain in the home. 

It offers a clean slate to be able to fully engage in the process of repairing the relationship, without the risk further discovery foreclosing on this process. Bottom line: Humans make mistakes, and all they can do is own them, acknowledge them to those they affected, and make repairs where necessary. In doing this, they can share an understanding of themselves by sharing the understanding of their mistakes. I am offering you a clean slate in my "discovery" of the affair. I am wiser and more willing to listen, accept and process all details. You do not have to do damage control. I have stuck by you, giving you chance after chance to come fully clean. Why would I not stick by you after finally giving me what I need to heal? Put your shame aside and let me into the life of your affair. Explain to me how you felt before, during, what it was that attracted you to her and why you stayed attracted to her. Don't speak poorly of her and do not think about how you feel about her now. Tell me how she made you feel and how you felt about us. Everything that happened. You have this amazing gift that you can give us both. I am willing to listen and not judge. It is in the past, so bring it to light so I can stop wondering. This will allow us to have a better understanding of what happened. I promise on our love that I will not judge, yell, get pissed, leave you, nothing. I am willing to hear it all and move forward with you. Clean slate. Forget everything that has been said and done since D day. Let's have a new d day. One full of complete honesty, openness and understanding. You might just be surprised at how much I have grown and how much time has let me be able to take hearing it all. The only reason I will divorce you is if you cannot put your shame and fear aside and let me into that world of your affair; if you stay non-remorsful. The good, bad and ugly. I promise you. It will be received by a wife who has more compassion now than I had before. But not letting me in, not telling me....that is 100% the ONLY thing that is holding us back. You do this and it will change our lives for the better. And I will NOT throw any of it back in your face. I won't be angry anymore because you will have finally shown me that you choose me. Even the hard things to hear, I want it all. And in a loving, compassionate and remorseful way. About 3% of men would get this opportunity. Choose wisely. I love you. 

Maybe use tomorrow's session to discuss this with her and get pointers. Test what to say on her and express your fears. Tell her everything and then you will be able to do the same for me. Is this possible?

His reply after all of this:

"Everything that I've told you is all I'm going to be able to tell her because I don't remember everything"

So....


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

sapientia said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > *Please go find a good job.* You need to work. It's part of you feeling safe. It's part of you feeling that you have control over your own life.
> ...


Not at all. I am going back to work.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > So now what do you say that you know he has not been supporting them? My oldest, before he moved out, stayed in his room and read. He is very antisocial. They barely spoke.
> ...


This was MY home for 5 years before he moved in. I was renting it. When he moved in, his Mother bought it. Yes. My oldest has been anti social all his life. At first I did not feel like it was him pushing me around. He wanted me to stay at home and I obliged. I knew it made him happy, we had plenty of money and I liked being home with the kids. I liked giving him the sense that he was "taking care of me" because he constantly said it made him happy to do so. It was not until I found out about the affair, April 16th of this year, that we started fighting about it. But I am going to start working again. He has no choice. And our son will have THE BEST child care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I like your letter. 

Now, how are you going to actually put it into action. Are you going to ask his mother for money?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

turnera said:


> Those sound like wonderful qualities in a man; I can see why you want to stay with him. So how to get him to stay committed, that's the question. I think your first step should be to get him to print out a timeline of ALL the girls he's flirted with since he met you. Sit down together and discuss it all, the why, the how, let him see how each one affected you. it's going to be hard for a 22 year old to fathom what it feels like to be on the receiving end of this, so the more communication you have, the better.
> 
> the second thing to talk about is the inequality in the relationship. Discuss, set up some new 'rules' about how the family's going to work, and discuss the consequences that will come if one of you breaks the rules.
> 
> PS, did you know Denozo has a new tv show starting this fall?


And that is one of the reasons I do not want to just walk away. He does have some AMAZING qualities. I really do feel like I have found my match. What if these MAJOR flaws are just that? Flaws. And he works very hard on fixing those flaws and comes out an even better person? Then we would have not broken up our family and he would have learned a very valuable lesson. Crazier things have happened. 

As EleGirl said, this is NOT personal and has no reflection on me. It is him and something HE is going to have to work on and he is working on that. 

Just like it may take me years to heal, it may take him years to grow. But if we do it together, not give up and REALLY do everything to change the dynamic that was and keep ourselves safe, why NOT try? 

I would like to hear from Jack. 

What do you think about all this? What do you plan to do to change, change the dynamics of the way things were and to keep from having another affair? How do you plan to make me feel safe? Will you be fully transparent? What will you do to go above and beyond to show that you choose me? And what are your feelings on what everyone is saying about me working or having an allowance and my own bank account with money to support me and our child if you step out again?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He does the laundry. He is very OCD about the laundry and he actually likes doing it..




That is a good way to get rid of evidence.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

What questions did he pass on the polygraph? How many questions were there?


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Did the other woman tell you if they had sex? Was the other woman married?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> This was MY home for 5 years before he moved in. I was renting it.


OK, that does not change the point. You son had a man enter his life, a man that now lives in the same house with him. Your son really had no choice in this. That affects kids.

I went through it with my son and my step kids. I learned a hard lesson. All the kids acted out because of it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If he ever does another polygraph test, ask the question of whether or not he's had sex, PIV, anal, oral on him, or on her or any variation of that with another woman after the two of you became engaged. It's a yes/no answer.

I, like most here, do not believe that he had an 8 month affair with no sex.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> > Those sound like wonderful qualities in a man; I can see why you want to stay with him. So how to get him to stay committed, that's the question. I think your first step should be to get him to print out a timeline of ALL the girls he's flirted with since he met you. Sit down together and discuss it all, the why, the how, let him see how each one affected you. it's going to be hard for a 22 year old to fathom what it feels like to be on the receiving end of this, so the more communication you have, the better.
> ...


Well for one I am working on changing my outlook and perspective on life as a whole, as this has caused many issues throughout my entire life. Changing how I interact, or rather, change to not interact with females unless absolutely necessary. Avoid any situations that would cause discomfort and that I wouldn't want you to be in. I am reminding myself every day how lucky I am to have you, and that you are all that I want in life and that I just want to see you happy again. I plan to make you feel safe by following your guide on what makes you comfortable or not, by consistently checking in with you when I have to go out somewhere and let you know where I am, when I get there, where I'm going next, and when I will be on my way home. I am fully transparent as I have given you back my privacy and allowed you to put whatever programs and what not you feel are necessary so that you can monitor my activity and you know you have access to any of the devices at anytime. I will continue to do the hard work of change and recovery and continue to prove to you through action and reassurances that I have chosen you. I still don't want you to work, you know that, we've already come to a compromise on this however and have discussed this, what all it would entail, etc. I was giving you an allowance, and now that we aren't having to worry about your sons rent, I will continue to do so. If you feel the need of having your own separate bank account then we can set that up. Not out of fear of me stepping out again but for your own security.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> That is a good way to get rid of evidence.


This aligns with my thinking, too. He does the laundry, which means nothing is found in/on his clothing by his wife. He wanted her to wait to do any housework until he got home... penance, of sorts. It was a way to assuage his own guilty conscience, even if it was done subconsciously.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> What questions did he pass on the polygraph? How many questions were there?


He was asked 8 questions. 4 were questions he was suppose to lie on to get a baseline. Like, "Have you ever, in your life, blinked your eyes?" He would answer no. 

The related issues questions were:

Have you ever engaged in vaginal intercourse with *****? No

Other than ******(me) and ******(her), have you had sexual contact with anyone else since December 12th, 2013? No

Have you ever engaged in oral sex with ******? No

Did you have any type of sexual contact with ***** after finding out *****(me) was pregnant?
No

He failed the last one and the other 3 were rendered inconclusive.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> Did the other woman tell you if they had sex? Was the other woman married?


She said they had both oral and vaginal sex. Yes. And yes. She had just gotten married 3 months before she started flirting with my husband.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > This was MY home for 5 years before he moved in. I was renting it.
> ...


I would give you the back story on my oldest but that is too much of a touchy subject. And way too long to get into. But let's just say that he has been "acting out" since he was 2. So much that he was arrested at age 7 and judge ordered him 60 days in state hospital. His "acting out" decreased a lot at age 17. That is when he came out and told us he was Gay. We are all very open in our family so that was no issue. But, right before my D day, my son got a D day of his own from his boyfriend.It triggered him big time. Previous to that, he had no issues with my husband. When he was social, he would play "Cards of humanity" with him. Neither does my daughter, except that she "has a crush on him". Which we all think is cute.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sallysman21 said:


> Well for one I am working on changing my outlook and perspective on life as a whole, as this has caused many issues throughout my entire life. Changing how I interact, or rather, change to not interact with females unless absolutely necessary. .



No, you won't change. It doesn't work that way.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He was asked 8 questions. 4 were questions he was suppose to lie on to get a baseline. Like, "Have you ever, in your life, blinked your eyes?" He would answer no.
> 
> The related issues questions were:
> 
> ...




Well he read up on how to beat a poly. He did pretty good with the inclusive results for a first time test. Don't bother testing him again. With this feedback he will do better on a second try.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> If he ever does another polygraph test, ask the question of whether or not he's had sex, PIV, anal, oral on him, or on her or any variation of that with another woman after the two of you became engaged. It's a yes/no answer.
> 
> I, like most here, do not believe that he had an 8 month affair with no sex.


He was asked 8 questions. 
4 were questions he was suppose to lie on to get a baseline. Like, "Have you ever, in your life, blinked your eyes?" He would answer no. 

The related issues questions were: 
Have you ever engaged in vaginal intercourse with *****? No 

Other than ******(me) and ******(her), have you had sexual contact with anyone else since December 12th, 2013? No 

Have you ever engaged in oral sex with ******? No 

Did you have any type of sexual contact with ***** after finding out *****(me) was pregnant? No 

He failed the last one and the other 3 were rendered inconclusive.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Are we allowed to post links here?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Most links. NO links to porn. No selling stuff.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You know I read somewhere that if you talk to yourself long enough, you will develop schizophrenia even if you never had it before - especially if you argue with yourself!


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> You know I read somewhere that if you talk to yourself long enough, you will develop schizophrenia even if you never had it before - especially if you argue with yourself!


What ever are you talking about????


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

This is who I would like to take my husband to. I actually spoke with him yesterday and he said there was no reason those questions should have come back inconclusive unless my husband was trying to do things to keep from reacting. This guy knows his stuff. If you are bored, curious or both, listen to the interview!!! 

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/use-abuse-polygraph


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Omg, this has turned into a chick thread. 

Longest posts I've ever seen. 

My adhd does not allow me to read. 

Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> This is who I would like to take my husband to. I actually spoke with him yesterday and he said there was no reason those questions should have come back inconclusive unless my husband was trying to do things to keep from reacting. This guy knows his stuff. If you are bored, curious or both, listen to the interview!!!
> 
> https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/use-abuse-polygraph


Here is the thing about polygraphs. They are wrong a good part of the time.. false positives or false negatives. And you will never know if any of the outcome is right. Sure some people are better than others at giving them. But they are not fool proof.

If your husband could mess up the one he already took, he can mess up another one. 

My dad was in the intelligence community. They trained all those guys how to get a polygraph to give the answer they wanted. 

You are not ever going to get the absolute truth. Your husband is holding back. Accept that. And go with what you think happened and what that woman said.... they had sex, all out sex.

There is no way that sexually active adults are going to play teenage games of feel-up for 8 months. I just does not happen.

Decide what you are going to do based on that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The elephant in the room is that your man is basically the same age as your son. And look at how you talk about your son, how you have to protect him, pay for him, etc.

You don't see your son as capable of taking care of himself, making adult decisions, knowing what to do.

Yet you expect your husband, since you married him, to be as mature as you are. I'm here to tell you, they don't. Especially men, who mature much later than women typically. and the brain doesn't stop growing, developing, learning, changing until around age 25. I've watched my DD25 go through about five different stages starting at about age 15. Each time, she felt she knew everything there was to know, she had it all figured out, what she knew at the moment was all there was ever going to be...until the next phase of maturity. When everything shifted. And then the next one. and the next one. 

Sure, if you've had a rough background you often 'grow up' fast and can take on responsibilities. But that doesn't mean your 'persona' is done growing up. I married at 21 and that person is NOTHING like who I am now. What my daughter was at 21 is nothing like what she is now. I am FINALLY starting to see a real, functioning adult now.

What I'm trying to say it, it was folly marrying a 21 year old for a multitude of reasons, not least of which it probably screwed your son up but good. But you've got a guy who lies like butter, evades introspection as well as honesty, and gets off on getting girls interested in him and seemingly didn't see what the problem was until you threatened to walk. 

These are personal characteristics. They won't go away. Not without him going to weekly therapy for a couple of years to peel away all the issues from his FOO that screwed with him.

What I usually tell people in your situation is to go ahead and separate. Tell him you're open to reconciliation, but ONLY after he's gone to a year of therapy and has met your other requirements. And only then will you even consider getting back together (and no booty calls in between).

IF he's willing to live apart for a year and still does all the work and still wants to stay in the picture, after a year, you may have a shot. Odds are good he will give up after a month or two and you'll realize you were just fun for him and now, not so much. and you'll be better off for that knowledge now, rather than later.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

turnera said:


> The elephant in the room is that your man is basically the same age as your son. And look at how you talk about your son, how you have to protect him, pay for him, etc.
> 
> You don't see your son as capable of taking care of himself, making adult decisions, knowing what to do.
> 
> ...


I think 2 years is better. Thanks everyone.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Jack and Sally
*
You are both very damaged emotionally due to your life experiences. Stop trying to heal each other and do what you can*. What you can do is to concentrate on only your issues because you cannot handle your issues and your spouse’s issues at the same time. It is always tempting to point out the other person’s failures and character flaws because that will help you avoid your own. However, that never gets you any better and sometimes makes you worse. I know you do not want to hear that but if you really want to get better and you are strong enough to face your own issues and take the right actions you have a good chance of getting better.


If you both keep trying to fix each other while working yourself you will both wind up even more miserable than you both are right now. *You have the money and resources to get better so you have no excuses*.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

He said 'no' to the poly eye-blink question? Is this another troll thread?

He's completely jerking you around. Leave him. Go find someone who actually respects you. There really isn't more to say.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

sapientia said:


> He said 'no' to the poly eye-blink question? Is this another troll thread?
> 
> He's completely jerking you around. Leave him. Go find someone who actually respects you. There really isn't more to say.


He was SUPPOSE to say no. It was to get a baseline of what it looks like when he is lies. He was told to lie on purpose.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Ah, okay, my bad. Sorry. I know nothing about polygraphs.

I still find his inability/unwillingness to share details disturbing. It would drive me mad to think my spouse is gaslighting me.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> This is who I would like to take my husband to. I actually spoke with him yesterday and he said there was no reason those questions should have come back inconclusive unless my husband was trying to do things to keep from reacting. This guy knows his stuff. If you are bored, curious or both, listen to the interview!!!
> 
> https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/use-abuse-polygraph




Translation: he tried to fake it. 

If this story is accurate and you stay with him then 100% of everything that happens in the future is on you and you own it.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Translation: he tried to fake it.
> 
> If this story is accurate and you stay with him then 100% of everything that happens in the future is on you and you own it.


1)	He cheated. 
2)	He will not give you details
3)	He tried to beat the polygraph, essentially failed
4)	He claims amnesia about the events of the affair
5)	Details OF the affair have changed

What are the consequences of all of this? If there are none, and you’re still going to stay – what is the point of trying to get all the details? You’re at a crossroads right now. You’re NEVER going to get all the details. There’s no way in h-e double hockey sticks he’s gonna give them to you. So right now, you can either A) choose to rugsweep the affair and pray for the best or B) Cut your losses and move on. 

I’m not going to suggest you do either, not my circus. But it’s the truth.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> What ever are you talking about????


Your husband sounds schizophrenic like he is trying to be two different people.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

sapientia said:


> Ah, okay, my bad. Sorry. I know nothing about polygraphs.
> 
> I still find his inability/unwillingness to share details disturbing. It would drive me mad to think my spouse is gaslighting me.


It is OK. I know the real truth, I just wanted him to admit it. Maybe 2 years of separation will help. In process of HIM moving out right now.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > What ever are you talking about????
> ...


Possibility. The lies he tells himself and the lies he tells others. That has to get difficult.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's only 22. I don't expect him to be some deep thoughtful critical thinker. In fact, he's one of only a handful of guys I can think of that age who even WANT to be married. The rest are just focused on having fun, getting to screw a bunch of girls, and hanging with the guys.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Part 1
Jack: 
Sometime in October of 2014, I was a couple months into a new job and still getting adjusted to the workplace. The girl didn't work in my same field, but would at times work in the same general area; 20-30 feet probably. We had brief conversations and flirted a little. One day she came up to me an offered me her number when she was leaving, I took it and thought about it for a while, before I left work that day, I decided against it and threw it away. A few days later I went up to her and told her that I was interested in talking to her but I didn't want my wife to find out. She had said that there were other ways to talk that would be more discreet and we started talking on words with friends.

Sally:
When did you start talking on words with friends? Whose idea was it to use words with friends? Did you use any other apps or ways to communicate? If so, what and when?

Jack:
I don't remember when we started using it. It was probably that day or a couple days after that. I don't remember whose idea it was. And I only remember using words with friends and when we would send pictures through email.

(THIS QUESTION I FEEL IS SATISFACTORY AND I AM CROSSING IT OFF MY LIST)

Part 2
Jack:
Most of the time we spent sexting and just bsing about work or whatever was going on at the time. This would mainly be after I got off work, which was 1:00 AM. And it would be whenever my wife was asleep. I would stay up for a couple hours while unwinding from work and talk to her then.

Sally:
Can you recall any conversations that you had? Did you ever masterbate while sexting with her? Where would you be, while I was sleeping in our bed, and you were talking to her? How much about my life did you share with her? How much about my children?

Jack:
Like I've told you before. I remember her saying the she either grew up in the San Fransisco area or something like that because she was a fan of the 49ers and a Giants fan. She cooked a lot and like Supernatutal. No, I can't think of any time I did that while we were sexting. And usually I was in the living room playing video games. I don't know what I shared with her other than the lies that I fed her and told her about the kids.

Sally:
Did you masterbate anytime involving anything with her? Usually? Where else would you be? What all lies did you tell her about me? What did you tell her about the kids?

Jack:
I honestly don't remember if I ever did or not. Either out in the living room or whenever I was using the restroom. Very rarely would I do it when I was in bed. I don't know what all I told her that you don't already know, for either question as I don't remember the details of the conversations.

Sally:
OK. I don't care if you masterbated to or with her anymore. But I do want you to remember details of what you said to her about me and MY kids. Why did you look up a photo of the world's fattest woman and bookmark it? I was 5'7" and 151 lbs. And what did you do when she sent you the pictures of her?

Part 3
Jack:
We started talking more about finding a spot where we could meet up physically and have some privacy. I suggested my truck, but she was worried that it was too conspicuous and somebody would see us and didn't like the idea.

Sally:
Your truck has tinted windows and you both would have a lot more privacy there then in the smoking gazebo right outside of TLE that you said you two would meet at. Management went out there and it was right outside the area HER husband worked. So can you see why this does not add up for me? And something about a shed, you spoke of once?

Jack:
Yeah, I can see why you would see it that way but I'm just telling you how it happened. And it was an idea I had later on about where we could have sex but we never got around to it obviously because I never had sex with her.

Sally:
So then she was never in your truck? Why did you "never get around to it"? Who has an 8 month affair and not make the time to "get around to" having sex? Explain more to me the logic of this. There has to be a reason. There was plenty of opportunity, you both wanted to, the place was right there, instead of kissing and groping and all that...why not just go in there and have a quicky? And she was willing to do all those things out in the open but never in your truck?

Jack:
No, I can't think of a single time that she ever was. Like I've said before, we never made the time to do it. I don't how else to explain that. Apparently so, like I said, she didn't think the truck was a good idea because people would see us coming and going from there or something like that.

Sally:
OK, since you cannot remember, I want a DNA testing of the inside of your truck for bodily fluids, hair, finger prints and you must pay for it. No one is allowed to touch your truck until this is done. 

Part 4
Jack:
She suggested the idea of getting a hotel room that she would pay for and either calling in to work or telling my wife that I had to go in on a day that I actually didn't. I didn't see that being possible so that didn't happen either. She came up with another idea about a place right outside of the work building that nobody really ever went to and so we started meeting up there. It was a few times a week at most, as we worked different shifts and she wasn't always able to take a lunch when I would be going in to start my shift or we would be working different days. It would be for 10-15 minutes at most before I clocked in and we would spend most of the time kissing, holding hands, cuddling, groping, or just bsing.

Sally:
WOW, she had a lot of suggestions. You would think she had done this before. And how do I know you did not do the hotel thing? Yes, the smoking gazebo where it is very open for everyone to see is much more private. Right! Now, in your time lines you gave me you said no more than 2 or 3 times per week and no more than 10 minutes each time. You also said you stuck your hand down her pants but could not remember if you fingered her, but it was possible. And you were "always shoving her hand down your pants". So where is the info about this? And what was you said about her kissing? And what was it the surveillance cameras caught? Oh yes, her straddling you, both of you siting up and her rocking back and forth and you with your hands on her ass?

Jack:
Well obviously so, she is a wh0re and as you told me, had even been arrested for prositution before and had been going on with several different guys. There's no way for you to know, but it didn't happen. Plain and simple. I didn't say that, I said that I probably tried sticking my hand down her pants and that I probably tried to get her to stick her hand down mine. I'm not denying this possibility but it's not in my memories that this ever happened and that I supposedly fingered her. I'm not discounting the possibility but I can't think of a single time it ever happened. She was a terrible, sloppy kisser. And I've never seen this supposed camera footage so I can't say anything about it.

Sally:
Call your old job and get all of your records for me. Days absent, days late, days left early, time sheets, reason you were fired. All of it. You can legally request all of that info. Does not matter if you have seen it. Why was she sitting in your lap, rocking back and forth?

Jack:
I don't know, I probably asked her to grind on me.

Sally:
Your must call and get ALL of your records from your old job. Why did you avoid this part?


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

turnera said:


> He's only 22. I don't expect him to be some deep thoughtful critical thinker. In fact, he's one of only a handful of guys I can think of that age who even WANT to be married. The rest are just focused on having fun, getting to screw a bunch of girls, and hanging with the guys.


It is true what he told her. I did not want to get married or have anymore kids. He begged me. I told him I would think about the marriage in a few years but I was on birth control. I was getting headaches really bad from that one so they switched me to another and I got pregnant. He wanted the legal marriage, he wanted the baby. I was happy with having no more children (though, of course I do not regret it now at all!) And I was more than pleased with just the hand fasting. I only agreed to making it legal, 2 months before I gave birth. He was persistent.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?


The FIRST times, usually and the last. My WW was very drunk during her infidelity and yet remember feeling, conversations, she answered my questions as best she could. The "fuzzy" memory areas were within reason. The important ones, she did remember enough for straight answers. When I say drunk - I mean, DRINKING at work.

I read many posts on this thread. My take.
1 - He was cheating when your relationship started, into the wedding and during pregnancy and afterwards. That seems to tell me and others - he has NO interest in stopping.

If it was just one woman over a short period of RECENT time, okay. But before you got married?!

2 - He's quite young in age compared to you... sorry, but that is a factor. He's immature. Not surprised.

3 - If he REALLY wants to repair / save the marriage - He's got a lot more to do. Transparency, opening up his phone to you, etc. Telling you the truth. Really, he can't remember if he fingered her?

I can remember sex acts with women from 10+ years ago. Not all of them, but the things worth remembering.

Good luck.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Let me start by saying that I believe most relationships can be fixed, if both parties work to fix the problems. I also know that you desperately want to forgive and live the life that you have always imagined for yourself. However, forgiveness starts with the offending party being contrite. The individual that you have described from 2013 to today has shown no signs of contrition whatsoever. Yes he can be attentive, fun, loving and the appearance of being sorry, but will never answer the tough questions, because it makes him look bad. You can’t get up, until you admit you are down, you can’t get right in your marriage, until you admit the wrong in the marriage. 

You ask about wayward spouses memory issues. ALL cheating spouses suffer from Infidelity Amnesia, for two reasons. Some items may be seem small to them and therefore didn’t keep track. An example of this is “how many times did you sleep with her?”, he may not know an exact number, but that is because it was more than a few times. The other reason is it makes them look bad, they can’t logically explain their behavior. If they explain it as amnesia, it gives an air of doubt and what you don’t know won’t hurt them. Don’t waste your money on the polygraph, if it says he was truthful, he will say see I told you. If it says he is lying, he will say see I told you they are worthless and you are left guessing whether to believe him or not. 

Will he be honest and faithful in the future? The best measure of future behavior is past behavior and so the future does not look good. If I could give any advice to your husband that he needs to start being honest with himself. Every time that he has infidelity amnesia, trickle truth or just right out lies, it is a perpetuation of the affair. It is as hard on you as a spouse as the actual physical act themselves. Bad news never gets better with age, so just start being honest with wife and yourself. For you, I recommend that you set a time for yourself to work on the marriage and if he doesn’t start being honest, then it is time to move on with life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here are some books that I think would really help the two of you....

Probably pick one of these	


How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda MacDonald and Bryan Hall

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair:: How to Heal After An Affair by Carrie Ann Loving

After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful, by Janis A. Spring

And then this one

NOT "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity by Shirley Glass and Jean Coppock Staeheli


To help rebuild/structure your marriage to affair proof it, read this in this order:

Love Busters
His Needs, Her Needs


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I read this thread, and the WH struck me as a bit of my husbands personality. A bit of an Idealist. He wants to look responsible, he WANTS to be married, and have kids, be perceived as a family man, but he is immature and all RUSHY about it. 

To be honest your husband is going to disappoint you grievously MANY times over the course of your marriage. He is still growing up. Im 28, not all that terribly older than your husband but i was married at 19, and i am an entirely different person than who I was at 21. And i was VERY mature and responsible for my peer group as was my husband...But we had a lot of growing up to do. 

We have grown apart and back together and apart many times, but we managed because i think in a way we were bother going through the same feelings. 

YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND are not able to weather the storm of infidelity AND the age gap... Im sorry, this is my opinion. 

Better to end it while you can talk reasonably and still respect each other. After months of attempted reconciliation your feelings could turn very dark and lose all love compassion and respect for each other. 

Good luck, i think separation in this instance is a very good idea.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Has any other wayward spouse, out there, ever forgotten details about an affair like that?
> ...


My husband does not drink. 
My husband does not use drugs.

My husband slept with another girl 2 weeks after we started dating. 

1. He has been flirting with girls on and off our entire relationship from December 1st, 2013 until April 16th, 2016. His actual affair was from, according to him, sometime in October of 2014 until end of April 2015 sometime, before we found out I was pregnant with our son, even though he failed that on the polygraph. He says he failed it because he could not remember exact date. But the polygrapher was not looking for an exact date. The question was, "Did you have sexual contact with ***** after finding out ****** (me) was pregnant?" He said no. He failed. This was before we were legally married. We did a hand fasting January 16th of 2014. Legally married on October 31st, 2015. Found out we were pregnant at end of April 2015. Had our son December 11th, 2015. D day was April 16th, 2016. The AP told me over FBT under a Fake Facebook profile that is now closed. I screen shot everything. 

2. Yes. I get it.

3. He has given me full transparency over his phone and my tablet. No access to private browsers or apps. He also cannot delete history or text messages. But he is still lying about details. He remembers all the things he did with the girls from his past, but just not this affair. He says he repressed it because it is too much for him to think about how much he has hurt me. 

Thank you.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Here are some books that I think would really help the two of you....
> 
> Probably pick one of these
> 
> ...


Thank you. We have both read all of those except the last 2.  Ordered them though. And a workbook that goes with them.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Thank you everyone


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

I wish I could find the words or articulate to him how much his lying hurts me worse than the affair. I truly do not believe he gets it. Even divorce. He just does not get it. Even losing his son. He does not get it. He just keeps swearing "the memories are just not there".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Jack:
> Well obviously so,* she is a wh0re *and as you told me, had even been arrested for prositution before and had been going on with several different guys.


Jack, you don't get to call her "wh0re". You are no better than she. 



Jacksgirl37 said:


> There's no way for you to know, but it didn't happen. Plain and simple. I didn't say that, I said that I probably tried sticking my hand down her pants and that I probably tried to get her to stick her hand down mine. I'm not denying this possibility but it's not in my memories that this ever happened and that I supposedly fingered her. I'm not discounting the possibility but I can't think of a single time it ever happened. She was a terrible, sloppy kisser. And I've never seen this supposed camera footage so I can't say anything about it.


OMG, Jack get real. No one believes that you cannot remember this stuff. If your memory is that bad, you are developing dementia.



Jacksgirl37 said:


> Sally:
> Call your old job and get all of your records for me. Days absent, days late, days left early, time sheets, reason you were fired. All of it. You can legally request all of that info. Does not matter if you have seen it.


Good idea. So he's never told you why he was fired?



Jacksgirl37 said:


> Why was she sitting in your lap, rocking back and forth?
> 
> 
> Jack:
> I don't know, I probably asked her to grind on me.


So it's her fault? Probably? Clearly the two of you were at least grinding, if not having PIV. And clearly you were doing it because you wanted to. Jack, the truth will set you free.



Jacksgirl37 said:


> Sally:
> Your must call and get ALL of your records from your old job. Why did you avoid this part?


Because the records have things in them that he does not want you to see.

Why not type up the letter asking for the records and the video. Then have him sign it. Then you mail it. Have them send all of the info to an address that Jack has not access to.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Jack:
> ...


The saddest part? I found him, late last night, balling in the downstairs bathroom. He was a mess! I asked him what was wrong and he said, "I am fu**ing losing my wife because I cannot remember the stupid s*it that I did to hurt you. I can't even get that right." Then he started looking into a hypnotherapist today to see if they can help bring back suppressed memories. Jeez.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Come-on!!! Really? 

If the questions were things like "Did you kiss her 6 or 7 times on the Tuesday? How many times did you kiss on the Wednesday?" I could understanding not being able to remember.

If you're in a faithful, dedicated relationship for a long time & the only hand (other than your own) that has touched your penis in all these years YOU WOULD remember if another woman had touched you!! Same with fingering...if you've only touched 1 woman for so long you WOULD know if you'd had your fingers in some strange!!


My husband pulls the same memory card. He does have a bad memory but I would hope that if our marriage means anything to him...taking the HUGE leap of betraying me, us, or marriage SHOULD be one of those big memorable things in life!

It's not about remembering every single detail, it's about being completely open & honest in a marriage. That's intimacy!! That's the foundation of marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> The saddest part? I found him, late last night, balling in the downstairs bathroom. He was a mess! I asked him what was wrong and he said, "I am fu**ing losing my wife because I cannot remember the stupid s*it that I did to hurt you. I can't even get that right." Then he started looking into a hypnotherapist today to see if they can help bring back suppressed memories. Jeez.


You know what? Go along with that. If that's what he needs to remember, or have the guts to tell you, so be it. Just make sure that the hypnotherapist can tell if he's game playing.

I don't think he's losing you because he cannot remember. That's putting the blame on something other than himself. It's because he's not doing the stuff that he need to do.

For example, he's made comments that make it seem like his self esteem issues mitigate his cheating. That's him not taking responsibility.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Sallysman21 said:


> We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.


You want to save something which is your ideal marriage, but that is a fantasy in your head.

The dec fling - that can just be new found confidence and excitement.
The fast 1 month courtship, can and does happen.

The Oct affair...shows that you're being played. (when added the other stuff)

ie _you_ might be in a marriage...but he isn't.
So if you're think of golddigging some of his stuff, just pretend and wear it until the minimum communal property time is up.
If you're emotionally involved, bad news, get out now because this guy is going to continue to treat you as unimportant furniture for the rest of your life.

and _whatever_ you do, don't have a kid to him, ever. It won't hold him to you, it won't suddenly tame him or make him feel responsible to his family, and it won't make you suddenly "the mother of his wonder child" in his eyes. He'll actually find a kid more of a burden and spend even less time with you and the child and more with his entertainments. All of which will be hard for your baby.

I know you don't want the bad news. But one thing about this site is that it has people who have been through the good and the bad, and they're not going to feed your fantasies if it's bad for you and your family.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Oh...oh....boy! Do I have something to add to this circus. Now I even feel like this is comical. 

Jack says I cannot take my 19 year old son (Happy birthday to him today) to a gay bar on Halloween. He also says that I cannot work outside of the home still. I told him, fine, then he cannot go to college outside of the home, online only, and work outside the home either. He would have to start a business at home like I did. He blew up, got pi$$ed off and said it was unfair. Are you fu*king kidding me? His reasons? "It is not safe out there" (Are you kidding? I have been taking care of myself longer than he has been alive). And "He is afraid I will cheat". I...cannot...stop....laughing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The more threatened he feels, the worse his need to control you will become. This is ridiculous.

He cannot tell you not to work outside the home. Why on earth do you put up with this?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> You want to save something which is your ideal marriage, but that is a fantasy in your head.
> 
> The dec fling - that can just be new found confidence and excitement.
> The fast 1 month courtship, can and does happen.
> ...


She already has a baby by him.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > We are not here looking for judgement or condescending remarks. We are here trying to salvage a marriage that we both want to save. If you're not going to be helpful and contribute appropriate advice, please move on to a different thread.
> ...


We do have an 8 month old son. He begged me for a baby every day. I stayed on birth control. When they switched my birth control, due to bad headaches, I got pregnant. He was so happy. He may be a crappy husband, but he is an AMAZING father. I do have to give him credit for that. And our son is such a Daddy's boy. They do everything together. I want to bash him in every way...but I have to point out, and have a couple time in this thread, he wanted this baby so bad. He wanted our marriage so bad. He pleaded with me every day. I caved with the legal marriage 2 months before we had our son. He bragged to everyone and still does. It's all he talks about, according to his old bosses and Co workers, his "gorgeous wife and amazing son". I know...I don't get it either. No one saw it coming. Even before I got pregnant. At his old job, all his co workers and bosses said ALL he talked about was me and showed off my pictures. No one had a clue he was cheating, not them, not me, not his family or friends. He would show me off wherever we went and introduce me as his wife. He was so proud, or REALLY good at acting like it. Everyone told him how lucky he was. He loved it. He ate up all the attention. All of his friends and male Co workers were envious. He said I made him feel like a king. He never acted unhappy with me and always told me "how perfect" I was, every day since we started dating. Never missed a day. Always went out of his way to compliment me and show his love.

No.one.saw.it.coming.....and it took an entire year for her to come out and tell me. Very viciously.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> The more threatened he feels, the worse his need to control you will become. This is ridiculous.
> 
> He cannot tell you not to work outside the home. Why on earth do you put up with this?


Oh, I am going to work outside the home. He cannot stop me. Pfft. 

And I actually believe he won't give up all of the details because then he will have lost control of the situation. But you see....by him pulling this crap, he now has lost 100% control over me and I will do what I please. He cannot stop me.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Im sorry, GOOD DADS DO NOT THREATEN THE HOUSE THEIR CHILD GROWS IN. they do not play around with the security and future of their kid. He may have a good disposition around his kid, but he is NOT a good father because CHEATING is not the act of a selfless person, and guess what? A good parent puts their kids needs above their own. BUT THE GOOD NEWS is he CAN choose to be a good father. He can CHOOSE to do the right thing by letting YOU have control of the outcome here. He needs therapy and he needs to get on his feet and not control YOU. you are being manipulated and finically and physically controlled here. If he wants a healthy relationship he needs to BACK OFF. 

IMHO.....sorry jack, that is how I see cheaters. They are BAD ROLE MODELS, and they are Bad parents while they are putting themselves FIRST. Chose your child.... You should have never treated the mother of your child this way. Find remorse, because all your crying and carrying on is just about what you are going to lose in all this. (THAT IS SELFISH) start thinking about how hard your sons life will be if you don't make this all easier on them. Make your wife soften to you by helping her with a amicable separation and and EVEN MORE amicable divorce if it leads to that. 

Under no circumstance Jack, should you EVER forbid her from doing something with her son. Get over yourself and stand down.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

threelittlestars said:


> Im sorry, GOOD DADS DO NOT THREATEN THE HOUSE THEIR CHILD GROWS IN. they do not play around with the security and future of their kid. He may have a good disposition around his kid, but he is NOT a good father because CHEATING is not the act of a selfless person, and guess what? A good parent puts their kids needs above their own. BUT THE GOOD NEWS is he CAN choose to be a good father. He can CHOOSE to do the right thing by letting YOU have control of the outcome here. He needs therapy and he needs to get on his feet and not control YOU. you are being manipulated and finically and physically controlled here. If he wants a healthy relationship he needs to BACK OFF.
> 
> IMHO.....sorry jack, that is how I see cheaters. They are BAD ROLE MODELS, and they are Bad parents while they are putting themselves FIRST. Chose your child.... You should have never treated the mother of your child this way. Find remorse, because all your crying and carrying on is just about what you are going to lose in all this. (THAT IS SELFISH) start thinking about how hard your sons life will be if you don't make this all easier on them. Make your wife soften to you by helping her with a amicable separation and and EVEN MORE amicable divorce if it leads to that.
> 
> Under no circumstance Jack, should you EVER forbid her from doing something with her son. Get over yourself and stand down.


I do agree with you, but I feel it's fair to point out that the affair was before our son and before our marriage. 

Everything else, I completely agree with!


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

You both NEED to read "Not Just friends" - I have 2 copies so we can read and note our own books - together.

Yeah, so what if its PAINFUL to him... those are HIS actions. He needs to OWN THEM. For the first several months when things went BOOM, she denied she was having an affair.
Once she admitted she was lying, has been lying - and started telling the truth, things I already knew, suspected or knew nothing off - that was a big step in our R.

And I told her the that TELLING the TRUTH was healing me. And it does... are things perfect? NO. But we are in a very good place now and looks to be getting better.

We talk a lot more... and we're going to be talking soon.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

PS: thanks for clearing up the history... it seemed confusing.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> You both NEED to read "Not Just friends" - I have 2 copies so we can read and note our own books - together.
> 
> Yeah, so what if its PAINFUL to him... those are HIS actions. He needs to OWN THEM. For the first several months when things went BOOM, she denied she was having an affair.
> Once she admitted she was lying, has been lying - and started telling the truth, things I already knew, suspected or knew nothing off - that was a big step in our R.
> ...


He is not denying the affair, just proclaiming he does not remember certain details. 

When I tell him that his AP is wanting to share ACTUAL proof of things that he "cannot remember", and he does not want me to talk to her and is doing nothing to "try and remember" or "prove his innocence" what am I supposed to think? He says, "If roles were reversed, I would trust my spouse over some lying wh0re". 

I said, "Oh, so you trust me then? So I can work out of the home now?"

He replied, "That is not the same thing and that is not what I meant."

I was sending him things about manipulation and abuse and noticed his phone was not buzzing. I asked him to plug it in because I was sending him some things. He replied, "It is not unchanged, I turned it off. I needed a break."

WOW! Wish I could have one of those. Must be nice. 

Earlier I told him I was going to be taking my oldest son out to a gay bar on Halloween and I was going to start working outside of the home. He asked, "Why are you doing this?" I asked him what I was doing and that I was not going to let him control me anymore." He threw his phone across the room. 

I also sent him the number to get his records from his old job and he said, "mm" real rudely. I asked him what the problem was and he said, "I just don't see the point. You want these to prove I had sex with her and I already told you I didn't. Why can you not just believe me? I am your husband! I took the polygraph!"

Which that question came back inconclusive because he lied on one of them. He keeps turning it around and saying that it showed deception because he did not know exact date it ended. That was not the question. The question was "Did you have sexual contact with ****** after finding out ***** (me) was pregnant?

Me and the polygrapher keep telling him there was no date attached to that question. He says, "yes there is! We found out on April 21st that you were pregnant. Since I do not know the date it ended with ***** then that is why it showed deception when I said no because I simply do not remember!!!"

And boy does he get defensive and he tries to turn everything around and gaslight. It is exhausting!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> We do have an 8 month old son. He begged me for a baby every day. I stayed on birth control. When they switched my birth control, due to bad headaches, I got pregnant. He was so happy. He may be a crappy husband, but he is an AMAZING father. I do have to give him credit for that. And our son is such a Daddy's boy. They do everything together. I want to bash him in every way...but I have to point out, and have a couple time in this thread, he wanted this baby so bad. He wanted our marriage so bad. He pleaded with me every day. I caved with the legal marriage 2 months before we had our son. He bragged to everyone and still does. It's all he talks about, according to his old bosses and Co workers, his "gorgeous wife and amazing son". I know...I don't get it either. No one saw it coming. Even before I got pregnant. At his old job, all his co workers and bosses said ALL he talked about was me and showed off my pictures. No one had a clue he was cheating, not them, not me, not his family or friends. He would show me off wherever we went and introduce me as his wife. He was so proud, or REALLY good at acting like it. Everyone told him how lucky he was. He loved it. He ate up all the attention. All of his friends and male Co workers were envious. He said I made him feel like a king. He never acted unhappy with me and always told me "how perfect" I was, every day since we started dating. Never missed a day. Always went out of his way to compliment me and show his love.
> 
> No.one.saw.it.coming.....and it took an entire year for her to come out and tell me. Very viciously.


When it seems too good to be true, it probably is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I do agree with you, but I feel it's fair to point out that the affair was before our son and before our marriage.
> 
> Everything else, I completely agree with!


The affair was before you married and before you son was born.

But you two were a couple at that time. Look at what his infidelity and controlling has done to your son's home life. It's completely distoryed the family unit. 

And even now, during your attempt at recovery he's not really doing what he needs to do to fix things. Instead he's not opening up and acting like he has amnesia. Further destroying your son's family. 


So he is still not treating the his son's mother well. Mistreating you and destroying his family is a form of emotional harm to your son.

He does need to put his son first, which means doing everything in is power to fix your relationship and truly treat you with love and respect. And you need to do the same for Jack.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree with you, but I feel it's fair to point out that the affair was before our son and before our marriage.
> ...


Very, very true! What kind of example is this going to show our son?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Jacksgirl
> I wish I could find the words or articulate to him how much his lying hurts me worse than the affair. I truly do not believe he gets it. Even divorce.* He just does not get it.* Even losing his son. He does not get it. He just keeps swearing "the memories are just not there".


You are right he does not get it. Even if he gets it and tells you more you will not have addressed the main issue. T*he main issue is that he is not strong enough to help you and you are not strong enough to help him. *

If you ever concentrate on you getting yourself stronger and he getting himself stronger, then there is a chance that you two can heal enough to stay together. You have to get step one before you go to step 2, 3, etc. 

*Talk, talk, words, words have got you where? You need the right ACTIONS ACTIONS ACTIONS!*
The way your circus is going on the merry go round one of you is going to get worse.* Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.*


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

This is where I am: https://youtu.be/NxFRMIQbh10


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He is not denying the affair, just proclaiming he does not remember certain details.


Men often don't bother remember every little detail of their mistakes and errors.... there's not much point when there's plenty of women around to do it for them.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > He is not denying the affair, just proclaiming he does not remember certain details.
> ...


He says they did not have sex, the sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot: 
If she was in his truck 
What attracted him to her 
Why he felt he loved her 
When it started 
When it ended 
How it ended 
What they talked about 
If he put his fingers inside of her 
When was the last time they spoke 
And much more


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He is in individual therapy and starting sexual addiction counseling.


Well, color me confused.

He claims he didn't HAVE sex, so why is he playing the "sex addict" card?

Boy, are you being taken for a ride by a serial cheater.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> He says they did not have sex, the sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot:
> If she was in his truck
> What attracted him to her
> Why he felt he loved her
> ...


They call this 'cheater's amnesia.' They remember just fine. They'd just rather not TELL you because it will make their lives considerably *harder *than it already is. And cheaters don't like handing you nails for their coffins.

And guess what? If you *don't* have tangible evidence of any of these things listed above - which would force his hand and make him have to admit things to you - he's going to continue to claim he has amnesia.

Honestly, cheaters do it ALL the time. It's just another form of CYA is all.

That's why you got the 'inconclusive' result on the poly. He knows more. He's just playing dumb, is all.

It's *all abou*t damage control for hm.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I did want money to go to my oldest son's rent. He just moved out a week ago because he cannot handle being around my husband.


Wow.

So you're willing to lose your *OWN *son because you desperately want hold onto this 21 year old kid like grim death? And since your son moved out and you're *still *there begging your lying, manipulative husband for the truth, the answer to that question is YES.

Just putting out the empirical data where it belongs.

What was it that drove your own flesh and blood out the door? Having a step-daddy HIS age? The humiliation of seeing your husband wear his pink "I'm married!" shaming-shirt around the mall in front of all your son's buddies? Watching his mother get disrespected *over and over and over and over* while she *still* desperately clings to this lying, cheating man-child?

So for THIS, you choose to lose your son?

Shame on you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Taking your son to a gay bar on Halloween.

Is that a common thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> When I tell him that his AP is wanting to share ACTUAL proof of things that he "cannot remember", and he does not want me to talk to her and is doing nothing to "try and remember" or "prove his innocence" what am I supposed to think? He says, "If roles were reversed, I would trust my spouse over some lying wh0re".


LMAO. So now she's a ''wh0re." A "wh0re" he chased for 8 months and apparently thought was worthy enough to lie to YOU about and risk his relationship

So instead of playing games with your lying husband while he cries on the bathroom floor claiming amnesia (good lord, what a performance THAT was) , why haven't you gotten the goods on him from his "wh0re?"

All you have to do is *ask*. I'll bet she'll answer ALL your questions with the evidence she's got. 

Why all the cloak and dagger nonsense of polys and self help books and hypnosis trying to get a *liar *to be honest with you when you can have the proof in your hands almost immediately?

I just think you're stalling. You'd much rather concentrate on this big huge effort you're expending into trying to get him to come clean because that way, you can AVOID knowing the truth which is waiting for you with his "wh0re."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Are you both religious to any extent?

Do you gave a Pastor a Vicar or a Priest who could help you both?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Taking your son to a gay bar on Halloween.
> 
> Is that a common thing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Common or not, it makes no difference, Matt. What matters is that he tried to tell her she cannot do this with her son. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Jacksgirl37 Sally, how did you and Jack get it on in the first place?

Where did you meet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sally, have you ever done any research into this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/friendship-20/201506/20-signs-your-partner-is-controlling


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sally,

How old will your son be on his birthday? 19? 

Would you take a 19 year old girl to a bar (pick up joint) for her birthday? 

Just curious.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > He is in individual therapy and starting sexual addiction counseling.
> ...


Porn addiction


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > He says they did not have sex, the sexted through words with friends and kissed and groped at work. He claims he does not remember a lot:
> ...


Why would someone "so dedicated to repairing the marriage" throw it all away JUST to not admit to these details? Well, he can take them to his grave...but he will be alone. I do not believe him one bit. I wish Our son and myself were more important than his "amnesia".


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sally,
> 
> How old will your son be on his birthday? 19?
> 
> ...


It is not a bar. As I said, it is a gay club. There is no drinking. My son is gay and they are having a Halloween costume contest. He is very socially awkward, Halloween is his favorite holiday and one of his very few friends is going. He asked me to go with.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> It is not a bar. As I said, it is a gay club. There is no drinking. My son is gay and they are having a Halloween costume contest. He is very socially awkward, Halloween is his favorite holiday and one of his very few friends is going. He asked me to go with.


Ok, I thought that by 'gay club' you meant like a night club or bar.. you know a pickup joint... LOL Glad you clarified.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> It is not a bar. As I said, it is a gay club. There is no drinking. My son is gay and they are having a Halloween costume contest. He is very socially awkward, Halloween is his favorite holiday and one of his very few friends is going. He asked me to go with.


That's nice of you, Sally.

You are looking after your boy.

Are you both going to wear fancy dress?

With what you have gone through and how you are coping with it, I see you like this:-


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > It is not a bar. As I said, it is a gay club. There is no drinking. My son is gay and they are having a Halloween costume contest. He is very socially awkward, Halloween is his favorite holiday and one of his very few friends is going. He asked me to go with.
> ...


My son is going as "Light Yagami" from Death Note

And I am going as Harley Quinn Arkham City version. 

Thanks  We love Halloween. Oddly it is the anniversary of mine and my husband's legal marriage. 

But it is his and his AP'S Anniversary of when they started sexting on words with friends too. 

Sad, huh? Bas*ard!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Jack says I cannot take my 19 year old son (Happy birthday to him today) to a gay bar on Halloween.


[quote name="blueinbr" post=16285146]
What are your ages? That matters here.[/QUOTE]
[quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16285010]He is 29. I am 27.[/quote]

Wow! So you were 8 when you got pregnant with your eldest son? That must have made headlines!!!!! 



Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## Ckone1800 (Jul 13, 2015)

Lila said:


> [quote name="blueinbr" post=16285146]
> What are your ages? That matters here.


[quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16285010]He is 29. I am 27.[/quote]

Wow! So you were 8 when you got pregnant with your eldest son? That must have made headlines!!!!! 



Sent from mobile using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



She is 37. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Lila said:


> [quote name="blueinbr" post=16285146]
> What are your ages? That matters here.


[quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16285010]He is 29. I am 27.[/quote]

Wow! So you were 8 when you got pregnant with your eldest son? That must have made headlines!!!!! 



Sent from mobile using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
She has since come clean about their ages... 37 & 21. 😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Ckone1800 said:


> [quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16285010]He is 29. I am 27.


Wow! So you were 8 when you got pregnant with your eldest son? That must have made headlines!!!!! 



Sent from mobile using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



She is 37. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


Really? I thought she claimed they were her favorite numbers. She also denied it in the following post. .
[quote name="blueinbr" post=16284922][quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16284330]
Are 37 and 21 your ages?[/QUOTE]
No. Not our ages.[/quote]

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lila said:


> Wow! So you were 8 when you got pregnant with your eldest son? That must have made headlines!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from mobile using Tapatalk




She is 37. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


Really? I thought she claimed they were her favorite numbers. She also denied it in the following post. .
[quote name="blueinbr" post=16284922][quote name="Jacksgirl37" post=16284330]
Are 37 and 21 your ages?[/QUOTE]
No. Not our ages.[/quote]

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I think the story is they used their ages as their TAM name, then Sally realised some people might be down on them due to the age gap, so she tried to say those weren't their ages.

But then changed her mind and acknowledged they were their ages.

It must be a bit difficult for the son when his mom dates someone close to his own age.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I think the story is they used their ages as their TAM name, then Sally realised some people might be down on them due to the age gap, so she tried to say those weren't their ages.
> 
> But then changed her mind and acknowledged they were their ages.
> 
> It must be a bit difficult for the son when his mom dates someone close to his own age.


Oy Vey!!!!  I'll leave this one to the only person capable of untangling such a mess......Jerry Springer.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lila said:


> Oy Vey!!!!  I'll leave this one to only person capable of untangling such a mess......Jerry Springer.


Hmm. What is it about the name Jeremy? :scratchhead:


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Why would someone "so dedicated to repairing the marriage" throw it all away JUST to not admit to these details? Well, he can take them to his grave...but he will be alone. I do not believe him one bit. I wish Our son and myself were more important than his "amnesia".


My ex filed for divorce, she was never dedicated or even willing to have a conversation about saving our marriage yet she will go to the grave never admitting her affair and she had nothing to lose at that point other than her own warped self image of herself. 

Never underestimate just how much denial a ws will hold onto just to keep a false image of themselves.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

I read the first couple pages, thought, "troll". Skipped a few pages, thought, "troll".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jack, Sally, why don't you try dressing up as each other's fantasy characters?

I'll kick this idea off with a couple of ideas:-



















Why have I posted this? To remind you to have fun together and to keep the magical bridge of communication not only open but regularly swept clean.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Jack, Sally, why don't you try dressing up as each other's fantasy characters?


This would be more accurate, Matt:










and...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

3putt said:


> This would be more accurate, Matt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sadly, this is what Jennifer Lien looks like now


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Death Note - good comic and anime.  Have a good time.


With the crying and "memory loss" and controlling issues he has.

Dump him. How was your WH having FUN = memory loss? He's playing you like the child he is.

When my WW was cheating on me, she lied left and right about everything. Early on "I lied because I didn't want to hurt you" BS.

She's come clean on things. Took her months to get there, to admit her cheating to others and herself. Some people will never admit it... The amount of work he's doing to "forgot" and playing date games with the poly shows that he isn't willing to be honest. 

Sorry to say, but he's a child. My wife enjoyed her time with her 21 yr old and stomped on our family... and yeah, he was a child and only cared about his needs, not others, not children and in truth - not so much with my wife, even when he cried. Maybe some years later, he'll grow up. But right now - he's wasting your time with games. That is how I see it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> My worry is, since you forget so much...what if you forget our son in the car one day? Or you forget your married again and accidentally let your dong slip into another woman and then you forget about it, remember me again and give me AIDS? Or you forget where you live for a few weeks? I mean, if you can forget big events like those that you have forgotten, how can you be 100% sure that you won't forget more important events?


You're afraid this guy could give you aids? He has slept with many women before you 2 married and you have slept with over 50 people. You two combined have slept with over 100 partners...

You lady, need IC a hell of a lot more than him! 

MC is not needed in this case. You 2 have a marriage because a piece of paper was signed, but your so called marriage is a joke. Neither one of you is healthy enough to be in a relationship much less a marriage. 

I'm truly sorry, but you don't have a shot in hell to make this sham of a marriage work because there is no "real marriage".

...and before you shoot blanks at me that my advice is not relevant, (all pun intended) stop thinking you two are reconciliation material when you can't even be taken seriously as marriage material!


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Death Note - good comic and anime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I very much agree with you and very well said. Sorry you had to go through that too. Hugs


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > My worry is, since you forget so much...what if you forget our son in the car one day? Or you forget your married again and accidentally let your dong slip into another woman and then you forget about it, remember me again and give me AIDS? Or you forget where you live for a few weeks? I mean, if you can forget big events like those that you have forgotten, how can you be 100% sure that you won't forget more important events?
> ...


I completely agree with you. It was cathartic shredding the marriage license we both signed. Then one you can't ever "re do". And yes. My sleeping with a lot of women over the span of 25 years was completely self destructive. I do agree with that.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Jack, Sally, why don't you try dressing up as each other's fantasy characters?


Side note: If you haven't seen "Kess" recently, then try not to...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> Side note: If you haven't seen "Kess" recently, then try not to...


I know. So very sad.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> I completely agree with you. It was cathartic shredding the marriage license we both signed. Then one you can't ever "re do". And yes. My sleeping with a lot of women over the span of 25 years was completely self destructive. I do agree with that.


hm


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I know. So very sad.


She posted in earlier posts that in the past she has had sex with a lot of people and more women than men. So not, that post is not in the wrong thread.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I know. So very sad.
> ...


Yes, lost actual virginity at 17, with a male. I am 37 and have slept with 7 males and a lot of women. Very self destructive behavior. 

On a side note. To add to our peculiar story. A dear friend, to both my husband and I, has come to visit from out of state. He is male and a close, mutual friend. 

The most ODD conversation took place between us three at dinner, the other night, and not one I was prepared for nor do I know how to react. I have no clue where this even came from and I feel like I am being set up for some big joke or trap or something. 

My husband looked at me and told me that he still loved me, but that if I was to divorce him and wanted to be with our friend, and it made me happy, he would be happy as long as I was. 

Then our friend looked at me and told me that he loved me (what????) And if I wanted to be with my husband, he would understand and he would be happy as long as I was happy. 

Then my husband said, "basically, we both love you and we just want you to be happy".

Wtf?

Huh?

I...

I keep waiting to wake up and find this is all a dream because.....

How did this even come to this? Wha???

And yes, our mutual friend is closer to my age. 

I'm kinda feeling like becoming a nun is appropriate for me at this time. Yeah....


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I thought you and your husband were separated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I thought you and your husband were separated?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> We are.


That's probably for the best. Really.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I guess I'm confused - and no disrespect - but if you're separated, why are you having dinner together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> I guess I'm confused - and no disrespect - but if you're separated, why are you having dinner together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was their regular weekend dinner date


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I guess I'm confused - and no disrespect - but if you're separated, why are you having dinner together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We took our mutual friend who came into town out for dinner.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > We are.
> ...


It really is. Best decision of my life.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> LosingHim said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I'm confused - and no disrespect - but if you're separated, why are you having dinner together?
> ...


Lmao! That would have been MUCH less eventful and less confusing. But now I will have that image stuck in my head. Lol


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Lmao! That would have been MUCH less eventful and less confusing. But now I will have that image stuck in my head. Lol


That's what I hoped for! I like to give people with problems something to make them smile.


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > Lmao! That would have been MUCH less eventful and less confusing. But now I will have that image stuck in my head. Lol
> ...


I would say you did a satisfactory job! 

I have never felt better letting him go. He confided in a friend the truth and that friend told me. I knew all of this because it was what his AP told me. He lost his wife and children due to pride.

I hope they are happy together. I know I am happy!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I thought that you were separated but were going to work on counseling and seeing if he'd do what was needed? An maybe get back together after some time period?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> Yes, lost actual virginity at 17, with a male. I am 37 and have slept with 7 males and a lot of women. Very self destructive behavior.
> 
> On a side note. To add to our peculiar story. A dear friend, to both my husband and I, has come to visit from out of state. He is male and a close, mutual friend.
> 
> ...


Really?

Sounds like it's time to end contact with your ex. I agree it does sound like the two of them are plotting something.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yep, a very odd conversation. Like he wants to be poly/open with you - so that he can get other women on the side.

who knows.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Or perhaps they're both trying to be supportive.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Jacksgirl37 said:


> The saddest part? I found him, late last night, balling in the downstairs bathroom. He was a mess! I asked him what was wrong and he said, "I am fu**ing losing my wife because I cannot remember the stupid s*it that I did to hurt you. I can't even get that right." Then he started looking into a hypnotherapist today to see if they can help bring back suppressed memories. Jeez.


All sounds like BS tbh, are we all being led on a merry dance here?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Men often don't bother remember every little detail of their mistakes and errors.... there's not much point when there's plenty of women around to do it for them.


Having a bad day are we? :grin2::grin2:


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## Jacksgirl37 (Aug 10, 2016)

aine said:


> Jacksgirl37 said:
> 
> 
> > The saddest part? I found him, late last night, balling in the downstairs bathroom. He was a mess! I asked him what was wrong and he said, "I am fu**ing losing my wife because I cannot remember the stupid s*it that I did to hurt you. I can't even get that right." Then he started looking into a hypnotherapist today to see if they can help bring back suppressed memories. Jeez.
> ...


Yup. That is why he is gone.


----------

