# Menopause = no sex....EVER?



## NtheToolManD (Jun 28, 2012)

I'll try to keep it short. We are both 52. Wife and I both have been married before. 6 years into our marriage. She started menopause early - about 6.5 or 7 years ago. Sex was always awesome! Not always a marathon not always every day, but awesome. Then about 2 months ago, the excuses start flying. I'm tired, I hate my job, I hate my body, it's menopause's fault. The menopause one seems to be the one she's sticking with. 
I love her FAR BEYOND her body and sex! We have an excellent relationship. Don't get me wrong - we kibitz at times - but we have a great relationship and a strong marriage!
So - here's my question: am I just to sit back and blindly accept that no sex is the new status quo? Because I'm just a selfish man and I still want sex is just too damn bad for me?
I get and understand that menopause is a natural progression and a difficult time. And I've been supportive and accommodating. I'd do anything for her. But - is that just part of it? I should just forget myself in the mix? I've tried - I'm having a difficult time with that. I know the first response is "go to counseling - with or without her". Fine. Ok. Therapy fixes everything. (What the hell ever happened to ice cream fixes everything???) What I would like to hear - from others that have been or are in this situation! What are your thoughts? How did you handle? What is YOUR advice? ANYTHING besides becoming best friends with my right hand?
Thank you in advance for reading as well as any input!!!!!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

NtheToolManD said:


> I'll try to keep it short. We are both 52. Wife and I both have been married before. 6 years into our marriage. She started menopause early - about 6.5 or 7 years ago. Sex was always awesome! Not always a marathon not always every day, but awesome. Then about 2 months ago, the excuses start flying. I'm tired, I hate my job, I hate my body, it's menopause's fault. The menopause one seems to be the one she's sticking with.
> I love her FAR BEYOND her body and sex! We have an excellent relationship. Don't get me wrong - we kibitz at times - but we have a great relationship and a strong marriage!
> So - here's my question: am I just to sit back and blindly accept that no sex is the new status quo? Because I'm just a selfish man and I still want sex is just too damn bad for me?
> I get and understand that menopause is a natural progression and a difficult time. And I've been supportive and accommodating. I'd do anything for her. But - is that just part of it? I should just forget myself in the mix? I've tried - I'm having a difficult time with that. I know the first response is "go to counseling - with or without her". Fine. Ok. Therapy fixes everything. (What the hell ever happened to ice cream fixes everything???) What I would like to hear - from others that have been or are in this situation! What are your thoughts? How did you handle? What is YOUR advice? ANYTHING besides becoming best friends with my right hand?
> Thank you in advance for reading as well as any input!!!!!


How much have you actually talked to your wife about this? By this I mean, not after she's rejected sex, but at a neutral point where there is no stress to have sex. You need to make sure she knows how this affects you as well. Has she checked with her doctor to see if there are other issues, maybe being masked by, or presenting as, the menopause?

One of the first things to determine is whether this will be permanent or not. Then you have to determine if a lack of sex is going to be a deal breaker or not. After that you have to determine what you are willing to do, assuming that it is permanent and you are not going to do without sex.

You might want to start with some basic relationship councilling. I tend to recommend Touch of Flavor as a starting point. While they do tend to cater to the kink and ENM communities, most of their relationship advice applies to mono as much as poly. Maybe look at the desire chart. You can also call and set up for live help.

This is the point where several will sigh and say, "I knew he'd bring that up." But when weighing options this is the logical point to start, because it brings the least changes, at least IMHO. Is open or poly an option? If so, the two of you need to determine what your limits are. Be prepared to reevaluate or adjust as you go through it. The big this here is do not do anything behind her back. She may give permission and not want to know the details, but still is consent. 

If open/poly is out and sex is a requirement then divorce might well be the path left. I highly recommend that you do not explore this option until you know that it is highly unlikely that she will regain her sex drive. You might be waiting a few years before you take this step. 

Hope this helps. If you have questions that you don't want to ask here about ENM, you are free to PM me. I'm sure the few others like me will say as much, but I won't speak for them.

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’ve been shoe shopping with my wife plenty times when I didn’t want to go. She can have sex with her partner even if she isn’t in the mood.
The real deal is to get down to the reason she is no longer in doing things with you. My wife and I have had plenty of sex that was “just for one of us” with a smile on our face.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@NtheToolManD 

#1 Ice cream still fixes everything! LOL 

#2 Nope menopause does not = no sex ever!

#3 If menopause is constantly being brought up as "the reason" she doesn't want to have sex, my first advice to you would be to book a doctor's appointment with her primary care physician, attend WITH HER so that you two can speak to a doctor, and then find out if there are physical issues via blood test, examination, and whatever other tests a doctor deems necessary. 
a) if some physical reason is found (hey at 52yo our bodies start to have issues!), then get a treatment plan, do what you can do to help her follow the treatment plan, and actively participate in treating the physical issue AND communicating with the doctor about how it is/is not affecting your sex life. 
b) if no physical reason is found, ask the doctor for a referral to whatever counseling, therapy, or sex therapy they think is appropriate. Here's why: it may be a mental health issue, a couples counseling kind of issue, or just some odd sex thing she's gotten into her head and the referral would be different depending on the issue. She may need a counselor and a psychiatrist. The point is to let the doctor open up the next door, whatever that next door might be. 

#4 Final thought: I am a 58yo lady. I started menopause in my mid-40's (so also fairly early) and I can't even remember the last time I had a period. My libido went from "I gotta scratch this itch!!" to "Yeah that's a fun thing to do. I would enjoy that." So what may be happening is that she's waiting until she feels that "scratch that itch" feeling of being horny, and as you age that drooling horniness may or may not be as intense or may not show up at all. That doesn't mean sex stops!!!!!!! And shoot, once it gets started, it's passionate. It just is different (not the same) as in your 30's and 40's. So the "excuse" about menopause is just that...an excuse. Don't accept that. What you do accept is that sex in the 50's and 60's is different than younger years, and maybe more deliberate. Things change, take longer, take more friction (or too much friction), need more lube, whatever! It is not the same, it's still that close, loving physical connection! Sex goes on for a lifetime in whatever way it can go on. 

So if it's a physical thing...treat it. If it's not a physical thing, then figure out what's up and address it.


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## NtheToolManD (Jun 28, 2012)

Thank you! There's a part of me that feels sex (or lack thereof) is a deal breaker. BUT - I couldn't imagine my life without her either. I know - I'm selfish!! We've discussed the issue extensively at neutral times as we are both working from home because of pandemic. She says it's all because of menopause - but sure was abrupt! I truly thought maybe she was involved with someone else. However, that'd be virtually impossible since we're always home together. As for poly - never really gave it much thought. She keeps saying she worries that I'll go outside the marriage for sex - so not so sure that'd fly. I'm just at a loss!!! And - I've "done for her" with a smile on my face (shoe shopping AND sexually)!! Never even gave it a second thought. I don't "demand" - but I DO feel selfish as hell *****ing!! Am so confused and, well, I guess that's why I'm here! 
I cannot even begin to thank you both for responding!!! Was expecting to be blown off as just another guy only worrying about himself and getting laid. And that is not the case at all!!! Just feel as though I'm expected to flip a switch and shut myself down when I'm not ready..... Am I making sense? Or am I an idiot? (Its ok - I can take the truth!)


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I was in somewhat of the same situation you are in.
In the interest of brevity, I'll link to it:Why so many sexless marriages?
Basically after my wife pushed the envelope too far, I gave her three options. If it hadn't been for me getting mad as hell and changing the dynamic, I'd still be in the same situation as you.
However if you do what I did, you better be ready to walk the talk.
Best of luck.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Well, my wife has always been LD. She has never been able to keep up with me sexually. I'm a twice a day, every day guy, even now at age 65.

When menopause hit her, it hit hard! Her LD became ND very qucikly even though she no longer had to worry about pregnancy. Pregnancy fears was one of her excuses for her LD.

Now, after a radical hysterectomy, sex isn't even a consideration.

I'm sure there are women out there that buck this trend, however, I wouldn't know.

I wish you happiness, and good health for the structural integrity of your dominate hand.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You make complete sense. Let me make it easy for you:

“As a man I feel validated, desired, and loved by my partner when we have physical bonding.”

It’s universal for most men... it’s just that most men can’t seem to get it out in those words...or clarity of thought.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel that from your parter .... human touch.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

NtheToolManD said:


> Thank you! There's a part of me that feels sex (or lack thereof) is a deal breaker. BUT - I couldn't imagine my life without her either. I know - I'm selfish!! We've discussed the issue extensively at neutral times as we are both working from home because of pandemic. She says it's all because of menopause - but sure was abrupt! I truly thought maybe she was involved with someone else. However, that'd be virtually impossible since we're always home together. As for poly - never really gave it much thought. She keeps saying she worries that I'll go outside the marriage for sex - so not so sure that'd fly. I'm just at a loss!!! And - I've "done for her" with a smile on my face (shoe shopping AND sexually)!! Never even gave it a second thought. I don't "demand" - but I DO feel selfish as hell *****ing!! Am so confused and, well, I guess that's why I'm here!
> I cannot even begin to thank you both for responding!!! Was expecting to be blown off as just another guy only worrying about himself and getting laid. And that is not the case at all!!! Just feel as though I'm expected to flip a switch and shut myself down when I'm not ready..... Am I making sense? Or am I an idiot? (Its ok - I can take the truth!)


I have real problems with this idea that you can't derive great joy and pleasure doing something for and with someone else, doing something that might not be your favorite thing, but it becomes something you enjoy _because_ it's special for your partner. It's a love & empathy & friend thing. It's what people do for one another. My own weird example- the last thing in the world I want to do is clean the kitchen. And for years, ok decades, the kitchen was my wife's place, not mine. About 10 years ago I got religion. Don't know why, but I had that moment where I realized, I love my wife, I enjoy spending time with her, why not help her in the kitchen. And so I did. And I really, really enjoy it. I look forward to it. Why? Because it's doing something for her, something she appreciates. I love it. It makes her feel good. It makes me feel good because it makes her feel good. Similarly I'll go shopping with her. She thinks this is weird.

So why isn't sex like that, only more so? In a marriage, assuming you're not poly, isn't sex that ultimate expression of marriage, something shared exclusively with your husband or wife, nobody else? 

The other thing, a really serious danger, is the effect long-term rejection has on the partner with the unmet desires & needs. Do a search on "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage." Watch if first by yourself, and then with your wife. She might have that "OMG is that me?" moment. My wife watched it twice and wants to see it again. One of the issues many people have is that they'll "get" something for a while, and then lose awareness of the issue. 

Sorry, late night ramble. Just get this stuff dealt with sooner than later.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> You make complete sense. Let me make it easy for you:
> 
> “As a man I feel validated, desired, and loved by my partner when we have physical bonding.”
> 
> ...


I agree with everything except the “validate” part in that you’re basing your self-worth on someone else’s opinion/feelings. Men express love/emotion through sex and most women aren’t like that, don’t get it or reject the premise. Anything in bed more than what she wants is “porn reenactment” You should know whether you’re good in bed or not or attractive enough.

Women go through a series of software updates through life: Dating, marriage, child birth, divorce, menopause, grandma and widow. Very similar to going from Windows 98 to XP to Vista to 7 and so one. Same operating system just some differences. Some features you like and dislike are added and removed. 

The point is most men grieve the loss of sexual love that has been replaced by familial love. One partner can’t give you that love anymore and sure as hell won’t let you get it somewhere else. So you feel trapped. 

This isn’t much different from one partner (the breadwinner) retiring from a lucrative career as a professional (doctor, lawyer, pilot) at 45. They lost the career drive and now just wants to just hang out on the boat all day. The other partner, used to a cushy lifestyle, mourns the loss of material things and the cushy retirement they were gonna have (and the one they’re friends have). They’re only option now, is to meet their own material needs. So out of love for other, the breadwinner takes a job as a part-time tourist boat captain at $20/hr to make ends meet. They still love their partner just as much. They just don’t have any urge to show love through things anymore but realize the other’s need. The other just has to readjust their expectations.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Showing love through acts of service is different than lovemaking. Erotic love is different than all the others (platonic, familial).

Embodying a partner’s desire for a clean kitchen as a form of love is a whole different thing. You appreciate her strong desire to have a clean kitchen... are in essence now on the same sheet of music in terms of desire for cleanliness.

WRT sex, one partner is expressing physical, erotic love while the other is receiving an “act of service” in return. One parter is there for positive connection and expression of emotion. The other, all things being equal, wouldn’t be thinking about sex absent their partner. They’re not on the same desire page. She only acknowledges he needs sex but she honestly doesn’t have desire for it. She is expressing a platonic/familial love by having sex. It’s not what he is seeking but that’s all he’s gonna get. In the kitchen example, you BOTH now desire a clean kitchen. That’s the big difference.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Menopause doesn't equal no sex.
Hysterectomies don't equal no sex.
Consult a physician, make sure any fears she has are allayed. 

After an all clear, look for the real reasons she doesn't want to be intimate


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> About 10 years ago I got religion. Don't know why, but I had that moment where I realized, I love my wife, I enjoy spending time with her, why not help her in the kitchen. And so I did. And I really, really enjoy it. I look forward to it. Why? Because it's doing something for her, something she appreciates. I love it. It makes her feel good. It makes me feel good because it makes her feel good. Similarly I'll go shopping with her. She thinks this is weird.


I would love if my husband grabbed this concept right here!
ALL of the housework is mine, All of it! He will do things if asked, toss towels in the wash, load the dishwasher... and I am truly thankful for that. I guess there are guys that won't even do this? He would say every cup or plate he puts in the dishwasher is for me. And its a struggle, because of "my high demands and being a neat freak" which is false. 
I would love to laugh over cleaning the kitchen in the evenings, or weeding the garden together on a Saturday. Something! Something where he enjoys working or being in MY world! 
Sorry for my pity party, I just woke frustrated.
From one wife to you though, thats great that you do this for/with her!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NtheToolManD said:


> So - here's my question: am I just to sit back and blindly accept that no sex is the new status quo? Because I'm just a selfish man and I still want sex is just too damn bad for me?


Hormones and an active libido will help facilitate sex, but a person is still fully capable of enjoying sex without that.

Will things be different? Yes! 

The primary thing is that you need to learn all over again about how to have sex with your wife and learn what it takes to make her feel loved and emotionally connected to you. You have to allow her to completely see you with your flaws and all. Likewise you have to help her with the confidence to allow her to show herself to you. 

Easier said than done.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage."


I just watched this. AMAZING! I know you recommended this for someone else, but I am glad I came across it!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NtheToolManD said:


> Thank you! There's a part of me that feels sex (or lack thereof) is a deal breaker. BUT - I couldn't imagine my life without her either. I know - I'm selfish!! We've discussed the issue extensively at neutral times as we are both working from home because of pandemic. She says it's all because of menopause - but sure was abrupt! I truly thought maybe she was involved with someone else. However, that'd be virtually impossible since we're always home together. As for poly - never really gave it much thought. She keeps saying she worries that I'll go outside the marriage for sex - so not so sure that'd fly. I'm just at a loss!!! And - I've "done for her" with a smile on my face (shoe shopping AND sexually)!! Never even gave it a second thought. I don't "demand" - but I DO feel selfish as hell *****ing!! Am so confused and, well, I guess that's why I'm here!
> I cannot even begin to thank you both for responding!!! Was expecting to be blown off as just another guy only worrying about himself and getting laid. And that is not the case at all!!! Just feel as though I'm expected to flip a switch and shut myself down when I'm not ready..... Am I making sense? Or am I an idiot? (Its ok - I can take the truth!)


You and her need to figure this out. I have told my Fiancé, when we were just dating how important sex was. 

This can be fixed and she HAS to want to fix it. 

For the record, not all woman are the same, my F is 62 I think, has been through MP and is hot to trot all the time. 

Our sex is great, and as much as I love her, if it was not we would not be together. Short of some type of REAL HEALTH issue that actually prevents having sex, it is on. And it has to stay on. 

Other women will say they are not like mine, ok, that is good because we are not dating. 

You need to be firm but gentle about this, and let her know how important the sexual part of your relationship is and has to continue to be. 

Do not let this continue, or it will end badly...


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Menopause changed things be time for us. Sex is different now than it was 20+ years ago. The in the bedroom charge were fairly easy for us. The getting into the bedroom changes were more difficult. It’s different, not better, not worse, it’s just is.

We both still want and expect “sex” (in quotes for a broad sense of the word). It won’t be PiV every time, and sometimes it may be me finishing my self off on her boobs, but we are getting naked and up to something. Taking pressure off (for her knowing she doesn’t have to provide PiV every time and well me just pressing the issue, she already knows it’s important) helped get us into the sack more easily/often.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Hormones and an active libido will help facilitate sex, but a person is still fully capable of enjoying sex without that.
> 
> Will things be different? Yes!
> 
> ...


The bolded part is a real issue and it's possible that sex itself may reinforce her feelings of inadequacy elsewhere... as in, is that all I'm good for. 

But I think you put too much emphasis on what the guy (in this case) has to do when, unfortunately, it's the wife (in this case) who has to have a change of heart and see things very differently. She has to understand what rejection feels like, and she has to understand that, in a way, she's putting too much importance on a single thing (sex), or perhaps too much "this is me, mine, I can do what I want with my body" which is OK to a point, but marriage is a shared emotional and physical experience, not just one or the other. In that way it's similar to every other thing you do for each other that shows you care about them and it makes you feel good doing something for them, with them.

When a partner decides to withhold physical intimacy, the other partner may "retaliate" and withold various niceties that had become taken for granted, and somehow that doesn't seem "fair." Why not? Why isn't it fair to become withdrawn and question commitment when that happens?

Sex is an invasion of our privacy. It can be a welcome invasion, or an annoying intrusion. I wonder how much of this does go to strange notions of privacy? Maybe not so strange, but at the very least, not understood or discussed.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> Showing love through acts of service is different than lovemaking. Erotic love is different than all the others (platonic, familial).
> 
> Embodying a partner’s desire for a clean kitchen as a form of love is a whole different thing. You appreciate her strong desire to have a clean kitchen... are in essence now on the same sheet of music in terms of desire for cleanliness.
> 
> ...


"New car sex", "Diamond ring sex", "Expensive vacation sex" are all quite real and all could be seen as a response to an "act of service." He or she thinks so much of me that he or she did this and I'm going to do something special for him or her tonight. The desire wasn't there before the act of service. In a negative way you could look at this as transactional sex, but I don't think it's really all that negative a thing. Marriage itself is a transaction, with promises made till death do you part. 

OK, the kitchen example. Yes, you both get a clean kitchen. But I never made that big a deal about it. It never bothered me before. What makes me feel good about it is that it's something SHE wants, and I can help with it. It's really that simple. Sex may be something I want and she should, seriously, get some pleasure from doing something for me. With me. As would be the case for so many other things that are NOT unique, that would have so much less importance, than sex. The context here is sex within an LTR or marriage, for people who view that as the appropriate place for sex. In other words, this is their only acceptable outlet. Affairs and hookers are not allowed.

When we say "I do" we should be promising, for as long as we love each other, to not build a wall from our partner around our bodies. As long as love is still there and physical issues don't prevent it, rejection of sex either puts sex on way too high or way too low a pedestal.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> *marriage is a shared emotional and physical experience, not just one or the other.*


It might be important to note that the emotional side of things is the key to better unlocking physical pleasure. Not the other way around. Perhaps in the early years one can use hormones and physical pleasure as the key to unlock emotional closeness which is likely how most men work.

So in the movie cars you know how you have to learn how to "turn right to go left" in order really do it? Well now can you do that in reverse?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> So in the movie cars you know how you have to learn how to "turn right to go left" in order really do it? Well now can you do that in reverse?


It can be done!

Here is a guy driving his race car in reverse around the track!


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> "In a negative way you could look at this as transactional sex, but I don't think it's really all that negative a thing. Marriage itself is a transaction, with promises made till death do you part.


Not negative so much as reality. Hell millennial girls are blowing their dates after they bought dinner as a “thank you.”

I think it’s common that sex is about just sex initially but tends to eventually become transactional. The _insert high-priced item here_ sex has always rubbed me the wrong way. Now if the situation is he knows her car needs new brakes so he just does it and afterwards she says “OMG you looked sooo sexy all greasy and changing my brakes... that’s manly... come up here I got something for ya once you shower.” That’s one thing. If you just bought her a new car that she’s been begging for and she says “OMG I love my new car” and just goes down on you then the hooker-vibe would make me a little nauseous after it was over.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

aaarghdub said:


> Not negative so much as reality. Hell millennial girls are blowing their dates after they bought dinner as a “thank you.”
> 
> I think it’s common that sex is about just sex initially but tends to eventually become transactional. The _insert high-priced item here_ sex has always rubbed me the wrong way. Now if the situation is he knows her car needs new brakes so he just does it and afterwards she says “OMG you looked sooo sexy all greasy and changing my brakes... that’s manly... come up here I got something for ya once you shower.” That’s one thing. If you just bought her a new car that she’s been begging for and she says “OMG I love my new car” and just goes down on you then the hooker-vibe would make me a little nauseous after it was over.


No way man, I assume you are a man, regardless of what all the kids are doing...

Even at my age 56, the sex with my F is super special. It is actually making love and that makes a difference.

No way it is a transaction. If a woman that I was in love with made it sound like sex was a transaction, I think I would kick her to the curb. I can get sex just about any time I want it.

I love HER, and l love making love with her... Not to sound like a girl or anything...


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

NtheToolManD said:


> I'll try to keep it short. We are both 52. Wife and I both have been married before. 6 years into our marriage. She started menopause early - about 6.5 or 7 years ago. Sex was always awesome! Not always a marathon not always every day, but awesome. Then about 2 months ago, the excuses start flying. I'm tired, I hate my job, I hate my body, it's menopause's fault. The menopause one seems to be the one she's sticking with.
> I love her FAR BEYOND her body and sex! We have an excellent relationship. Don't get me wrong - we kibitz at times - but we have a great relationship and a strong marriage!
> So - here's my question: am I just to sit back and blindly accept that no sex is the new status quo? Because I'm just a selfish man and I still want sex is just too damn bad for me?
> I get and understand that menopause is a natural progression and a difficult time. And I've been supportive and accommodating. I'd do anything for her. But - is that just part of it? I should just forget myself in the mix? I've tried - I'm having a difficult time with that. I know the first response is "go to counseling - with or without her". Fine. Ok. Therapy fixes everything. (What the hell ever happened to ice cream fixes everything???) What I would like to hear - from others that have been or are in this situation! What are your thoughts? How did you handle? What is YOUR advice? ANYTHING besides becoming best friends with my right hand?
> Thank you in advance for reading as well as any input!!!!!


You have to decide as a couple what your mission is and what your guiding principles are. For example, if you were both followers of Jesus, you could anchor on the truth. The truth is that the woman is to give conjugal rights to the man and vice versa. There is a reason for this, which at this time I won't get into, but let's just assume it makes everything better and better is good, right?

Now if you have a marriage that isn't anchored in Christ, then what can you do? You will be stuck with what the world has to offer:

Argue your point of view and demand to get whatever you think you can get away with in terms of "negotiating"
Cheat
Divorce
Live with it
If I were you I'd be taking the family to church so I could find the truth and not live in this hell without any support. None of those other options are appealing and they all lead to nothing.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

My wife used to have a very robust libido and we had an awesome sex life and we have pictures and videos to prove it. Then several years ago as menopause started rearing it's ugly head, things started to change drastically. Not only did menopause bring hormonal changes and changes to her various rythms and cycles, but she also developed a number of health issues that she had not had before such as asthma and migraines and much increased anxiety issues. All of those things along with several medications to treat all of that, not only did she lose 98% of her libido and desire for me but she basically became an entirely different person. It was like she was abducted by aliens and left some kind of pod person in her place. She looks somewhat similar.... but every about her personality, person and her relationship with me and the rest of our friends and family is different. 

I wouldn't say that we have 'no' sex because technically we do occasionally have some kind of sexual activity every now and then. Sometimes she even seems to find some things pleasurable and even appears to have an orgasm now and then (assuming it's not fake) 

And, I would also say that she likes to cuddle for a short period of time every couple weeks. 

But it is obviously duty sex and is an accomidation and appeasement to me. 

In short, she will accommodate/appease if I ask nicely and she doesn't have anything better to do. She will give me a hand if I ask for one. Sometimes she may even like me giving her a hand as well. 
But most of the time if we do anything at all, it is an accomidation/appeasement. And often she will be watching the clock and telling me to hurry up. 

I've gotten to where it's basically a turn off and gross to me and I am losing interest as well. 
Those of you saying people should suck it up and do it even though they aren't in the mood have obviously never been with someone who is truly not in the mood. 

I have offered a cooperative divorce on a silver platter and I have offered to outsource my needs and desires. She claims she wants to stay together and she claims that she doesn't want me going elsewhere and that she does want to maintain some semblance of a marital sex life. Occasionally she even seems to find some things pleasurable. 

So menopause did not technically end our sex life. But it did drastically change it forever. 

The loss of her libido and her desire for me and our marital sexuality was a true loss and we have each gone through our own grief over it. It was a true grief process with denial, anger, bargaining etc etc. 

I don't know if I am actually at acceptance yet but I do realize that if I ever want to have passionate, high-energy, desirous sex with someone that has an innate libido and is sexually attracted to me - it will have to be with someone else. That part of her is gone now. 

I have shifted gears in my sexuality to try to find a place that is mutually satisfying for both of us that doesn't make her feel pressured or doing things she doesn't want to do and that is at least pleasurable and loving for her while at the same time, not having me climbing the walls and not being a threat to society. 

I haven't found that sweet spot yet but I am working on it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> My wife used to have a very robust libido and we had an awesome sex life and we have pictures and videos to prove it. Then several years ago as menopause started rearing it's ugly head, things started to change drastically. Not only did menopause bring hormonal changes and changes to her various rythms and cycles, but she also developed a number of health issues that she had not had before such as asthma and migraines and much increased anxiety issues. All of those things along with several medications to treat all of that, not only did she lose 98% of her libido and desire for me but she basically became an entirely different person. It was like she was abducted by aliens and left some kind of pod person in her place. She looks somewhat similar.... but every about her personality, person and her relationship with me and the rest of our friends and family is different.
> 
> I wouldn't say that we have 'no' sex because technically we do occasionally have some kind of sexual activity every now and then. Sometimes she even seems to find some things pleasurable and even appears to have an orgasm now and then (assuming it's not fake)
> 
> ...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

"Those of you saying people should suck it up and do it even though they aren't in the mood have obviously never been with someone who is truly not in the mood."

Does having your wife tell you she's resented sex for 40 years count? That's what mine did. And she believes we've had a happy marriage those same 40 years.

I don't think menopause allows someone a free ride. I wouldn't give up before IC, MC and a Sex Therapist. And I'm not just saying that because that's the path my wife and I are on. OK. I am. You got me. But you obviously have the financial means (silver platter divorce packages are expensive) to go through some at least semi-heroic measures before giving up on her.

And, since you have nothing to lose, google "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage". Watch it yourself first. If she has any rational thinking capability at all, if her brain hasn't gone 100% to mush, that 15 minutes could be a very important 15 minutes in your lives. If she doesn't connect, then it's probably time to cut and run. Especially after hearing you say she doesn't even want to cuddle for very long. There's a very large group of women who aren't into sex yet remain very into cuddling. They still desire to be close. Maybe your wife did turn into a monster. I hope not.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> "Those of you saying people should suck it up and do it even though they aren't in the mood have obviously never been with someone who is truly not in the mood."
> 
> Does having your wife tell you she's resented sex for 40 years count? That's what mine did. And she believes we've had a happy marriage those same 40 years.
> 
> ...


She didn't turn into a monster. She just turned into another person that sits on her phone for hours on end and doesn't speak unless spoken to and has very little, if any, interest or desire in sex with me or apparently even anyone else. 

She does occasionally seem to at least welcome some cuddling every now and then and sometimes even seems to find some fleeting pleasure in sex. We do not have a completely sexless marriage. 

But the before vs after is night and day. She is a different person than she was several years ago and even she will say that. 

We have been to MC a couple different with a couple different counselors. Both said she basically had to choose whether to try to meet me part way or be single. 

Now to be fair, they basically said the same to me and that people and circumstances change over time and that it was unrealistic for me to judge a 50 year old woman's libido and sexual prowess compared to when she was younger. 

As far as divorce, we have very similar incomes, both gainfully employed, both have our own 401Ks and our own accounts and credit cards etc, one kid is now 18 and a college student living in the home and the other is almost 16. A divorce would basically just be divvying up the furniture and pots and pans with each walking away with their clothes and own personal items and splitting up the equity in the house unless we agreed upon some other arrangement. 

I'd be sad of course, but she really doesn't talk to me in any meaningful manner now or have any interest in me as a spouse. I'm just kind of the guy that helps makes house payments and helps with the dishes and lawn etc. I would mourn the loss of my hopes and dreams of being together, but I have already been mourning that for several years. 

Honestly, I get more conversation and eye contact and personal interaction out of strangers. 

I'm not saying I'm any kind of stud or lady's man or anything and I have no delusions of hooking up with lots of women or finding any kind of true love or soul mate if we split. But if I were able to get a Sat night date at some point, that person would at least ask me something about myself over coffee and listen to my response and would look me in the eye and answer any question I were to ask about her. That's basically more interaction than I get now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> "Those of you saying people should suck it up and do it even though they aren't in the mood have obviously never been with someone who is truly not in the mood."
> 
> Does having your wife tell you she's resented sex for 40 years count? That's what mine did. And she believes we've had a happy marriage those same 40 years.


Oh and no, she doesn't say she resents our sex life. Quite the opposite actually. She admits we did have a good sex life and that she misses it very much too. She misses her libido and misses feeling alive and vigorous. 

We have looked into hormonal treatments but either her doctors are reluctant to prescribe anything more than estrogen creams or full HRT is cost prohibitive and not covered by insurance.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Oh and no, she doesn't say she resents our sex life. Quite the opposite actually. She admits we did have a good sex life and that she misses it very much too. She misses her libido and misses feeling alive and vigorous.
> 
> We have looked into hormonal treatments but either her doctors are reluctant to prescribe anything more than estrogen creams or full HRT is cost prohibitive and not covered by insurance.


If she misses it, then try the sex therapist thing. We can compare notes. What have you got to lose. And again, watch that Ted Talk I mentioned. You never know.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I've gotten to where it's basically a turn off and gross to me and I am losing interest as well.
> Those of you saying people should suck it up and do it even though they aren't in the mood have obviously never been with someone who is truly not in the mood.


My take on this is not necessarily to "do it" but to suck it up and try and create am opportunity for both of you to get in the mood. It can be an emotionally unpleasant experience at first if nothing seems to happen and you are both stressed out about things. But that is what you have to work through first in order to get to the good stuff.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> My take on this is not necessarily to "do it" but to suck it up and try and create am opportunity for both of you to get in the mood. It can be an emotionally unpleasant experience at first if nothing seems to happen and you are both stressed out about things. But that is what you have to work through first in order to get to the good stuff.


You are going on the presumption that once things get started that in a reasonable amount of time, the lesser-interested party will become aroused and will eventually get into it and ultimately a good time will be had by all. 

If that works for you -great!

But that does not always work that way. For some post menopausal people that simply do not get that hormonal response anymore or something that is truly not attracted to their partner or they harbor resentments and such, trying to continue an encounter with someone not responding will result in contempt and resentment as well as an actual sex aversion. 

Once someone develops an actual aversion, anything relating to or even hinting at sex can result in actual damage to the relationship and make a positive sexual experience almost impossible.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

NtheToolManD said:


> I'll try to keep it short. We are both 52. Wife and I both have been married before. 6 years into our marriage. She started menopause early - about 6.5 or 7 years ago. Sex was always awesome! Not always a marathon not always every day, but awesome. Then about 2 months ago, the excuses start flying. I'm tired, I hate my job, I hate my body, it's menopause's fault. The menopause one seems to be the one she's sticking with.
> I love her FAR BEYOND her body and sex! We have an excellent relationship. Don't get me wrong - we kibitz at times - but we have a great relationship and a strong marriage!
> So - here's my question: am I just to sit back and blindly accept that no sex is the new status quo? Because I'm just a selfish man and I still want sex is just too damn bad for me?
> I get and understand that menopause is a natural progression and a difficult time. And I've been supportive and accommodating. I'd do anything for her. But - is that just part of it? I should just forget myself in the mix? I've tried - I'm having a difficult time with that. I know the first response is "go to counseling - with or without her". Fine. Ok. Therapy fixes everything. (What the hell ever happened to ice cream fixes everything???) What I would like to hear - from others that have been or are in this situation! What are your thoughts? How did you handle? What is YOUR advice? ANYTHING besides becoming best friends with my right hand?
> Thank you in advance for reading as well as any input!!!!!


Is your wife on hormone replacement therapy?
I’m on it. If I wasn’t sex would be like sandpaper inside. You suffer from thinner walls, vaginal atrophy and much more.
For me hormone replacement therapy fixed all that. I still need to adjust my dose on a regular basis but no soreness or pain anymore.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> but a person is still fully capable of enjoying sex without that


One thing (and a few other things in this thread) a man has no business saying when talking about a woman.

Ask your wife to go see her doctor. There are hormone replacements and other therapy suggestions that can help her if she wants to be helped. However, do not think you are going with her. You are not her father. She is not your child. Don't think you need to be there to see what the doctor says as if you have some kind of right to know. ASK her if she would like you to go along or ASK her if you may go along. Also ASK her if you may be included in the consultation. She probably won't appreciate you asking or expecting to be there, but at least you asked instead of just thinking you're going because someone told you to go.

Other than that, you can make a doc appointment for yourself to have a doctor to discuss these things with. It can be educational to have for discussing with your wife. Maybe you can find something helpful from *this Google search*. And I suggest googling more for additional information.

But before discussing with her, you have to ascertain if she wants to find a solution because no woman wants to feel hounded for sex. It may be that she never wants to have sex ever again, which is her choice. You will have to make your decisions based on that.

I don't believe one partner should be able to control the bedroom like your wife is doing, but she may have her reasons. At the same time, I absolutely abhor the just do it mentality that always dominates the responses in threads like this. It's ridiculous. Nobody should be telling people they are entitled to sex and their spouse should just give it to them just because they want it. They have no idea what the deal is and why s/he doesn't want to. There could be any number of reasons. No one here has any idea about any of them, but they don't hesitate to make posters like you think you're entitled and your wife is a terrible person for doing this awful thing to you. For all they know, you could be an awful person to your wife. Sexual relations could be painful to her. It could be that she doesn't derive satisfaction from sex so it makes her feel used. It could be almost anything. Like I said, they have no idea what her reasons are and don't know what goes on in your marriage, but practically everybody comes here tooting their horn of wonderfulness.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

To note something I just remembered for all those just do it because he's entitled mentalities out there, I remember reading an article that states "Between 2014 and 2017, diagnosis rates for herpes simplex, gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, hepatitis B, and trichomoniasis rose 23 percent in patients over the age of 60." That obviously means this man's wife has her own reasons for not wanting sex with him since it is obvious that menopause alone is not always the independent deterrent.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Different women have different menopauses. There literally is no one way it goes for women. Counseling is unlikely to help. For one thing, she hates her job, so she's just unhappy right now. For another, she is likely having hormonal changes making her unhappy right now. 

This may change.  And since you told me you had a vibrant love life before, I think it will eventually, but as Diana Ross once said, "You Can't Hurry Love." (Sorry bout that.)

Things happen as women age, so get ready. WARNING I'm going to be a little graphic here. Common things that can happen are vaginal fragility, bleeding tears, feeling painful like tissue paper. Prolapses, where things slip downward, and there's different kinds and they all affect sex. Look that one up if you want. 

The main thing you need to do is make sure she has seen a real gynecologist for a thorough workup. Not her obgyn because they specialize in childbirth (my primary doc told me that) but get on google and even call his nurse if you must (her, not you) and find one who stays up on hormone therapy so they are well versed in it. It may be she needs to get on hormones to keep her from being miserable. She could wait a bit and see if she feels better after she sees the doc, which she should do annually anyway, but if not, with her new gyn's blessing, she should consider hormone therapy. There's all forms of it these days. Some is topical, some is insertable, and then the pills and patches. 

Just be sure she gets to a good gyn.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> But before discussing with her, you have to ascertain if she wants to find a solution because no woman wants to feel hounded for sex. It may be that she never wants to have sex ever again, which is her choice. You will have to make your decisions based on that.


After my wife's hysterectomy she told me repeatedly that she would be happy to be done with sex and that she did not need it again. She was becoming increasingly emotionally exhausted with me wanting sex all the time and needed that to stop.

Did I stop wanting her? No. 

Did I stop hounding her? No. 

What does she have to say about that now many years later and no HRT. She thanks me for not giving up on her and us. She thanks me for pushing her to try and find opportunities for us to connect and enjoy one another sexually. Today she enjoys sex more than she ever did before.

I'll also point out that in all the research that was done by Masters and Johnson regarding the "hormone starved female reproduction system" for women past menopause... It was the presence a man keeping her active (once a week or more) that significantly improved her overall health and wellbeing (I guess it did not have to be her husband in case someone needs to point that out). Without regular activity Masters and Johnson observed that women's bodies would accelerate their rate of aging and things overall shutting down. That is not my opinion, it is simply what they documented and concluded from their research.


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## NtheToolManD (Jun 28, 2012)

Ok - so I NEVER expected SO MANY responses and ideas!!! I thank you ALL from the bottom of my heart!!!! 
I _do_ believe I need to take the ideas and information and advice here and formulate a plan. (Former military - always have to have a plan!) I watched the TED TALK as well and kinda felt validated that I'm not asking too much or just being a selfish jerk! Feel that there was good info there for BOTH of us!
All that being said - I'm going to try to screw my head on straight, give this ALL alot of thought, and try to move my marriage forward!
Again - thank you ALL very much!!!


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## NtheToolManD (Jun 28, 2012)

NtheToolManD said:


> Ok - so I NEVER expected SO MANY responses and ideas!!! I thank you ALL from the bottom of my heart!!!!
> I _do_ believe I need to take the ideas and information and advice here and formulate a plan. (Former military - always have to have a plan!) I watched the TED TALK as well and kinda felt validated that I'm not asking too much or just being a selfish jerk! Feel that there was good info there for BOTH of us!
> All that being said - I'm going to try to screw my head on straight, give this ALL alot of thought, and try to move my marriage forward!
> Again - thank you ALL very much!!!



Also - I should note that she is anti HRT as she says it increases her odds for cancer and cancer runs in her family. I don't know anything about how all that works but will be doing some reading over the weekend!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's forms of it that are not at all increasing the risk, topicals called bioidenticals that you put on the skin, not in the body.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> After my wife's hysterectomy she told me repeatedly that she would be happy to be done with sex and that she did not need it again. She was becoming increasingly emotionally exhausted with me wanting sex all the time and needed that to stop.
> 
> Did I stop wanting her? No.
> 
> ...


It’s fortunate that the gamble worked out for you. It could have very easily swung the other way and she could have ended up resenting you badly and vice versa. 

I think the devil can be in the details and the verbiage in how things are presented and communicated. 

Some people have very rigid beliefs on what “sex” is and what it is not.

For some people, sex is PIV. No more, no less. If PIV doesn’t work anymore for whatever reason, they see sex and sexuality itself as over and done. 

Menopause or any medical or physiological reason for that matter should never spell the ‘end’ of sex. 

But it can spell a change or transition and a shift of emphasis from certain activities and techniques to other activities. 

Our sex life looks nothing like it did before menopause. I miss our old sex life. So does she.

It can be terribly frustrating for both of us at times.

But we are not sexless and we are not without love and pleasure. 

What used to be sweaty and breathless porn sex and orgies and swinging from chandeliers, now looks more like cuddles and smooches, backrubs and footrubs and handjobs etc.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Maybe it could be renamed men-o-pause


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Oh and no, she doesn't say she resents our sex life. Quite the opposite actually. She admits we did have a good sex life and that she misses it very much too. She misses her libido and misses feeling alive and vigorous.
> 
> We have looked into hormonal treatments but either her doctors are reluctant to prescribe anything more than estrogen creams or full HRT is cost prohibitive and not covered by insurance.


Drives me nuts when women use menopaus as an excuse. Get it fixed. My BCBS covers hrt for my wife and test injections for me. The pelet implants not so much. The testosterone cream is compounded she applies a dab daily to her forearms. Estrodial under the tongue.
To me a woman refusing to try to address this is her choosing to starve her husband and says he is not important to him. It is very easy to fix. My wife had complete hystorectomy in early 40s and GTG with HRT.


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## ScottEis (Jul 9, 2020)

My wife has been in menopause for 5 years with one orgasm during that time. We are both nurses and not afraid to bring this up to doctors. Our problem is her gyn doesn’t seem to care and her PCP also blows it off, both female docs. I am blessed that she never denies me my pleasure, but it has become very old not bringing her to pleasure. This woman used to have a high sex drive, now, nothing. I keep praying something comes back. Like Neil Peart wrote, sadder still to watch it die than never to have known it.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe it could be renamed men-o-pause


More like men-o-STOP!

I could handle a temporary pause.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ScottEis said:


> My wife has been in menopause for 5 years with one orgasm during that time. We are both nurses and not afraid to bring this up to doctors. Our problem is her gyn doesn’t seem to care and her PCP also blows it off, both female docs. I am blessed that she never denies me my pleasure, but it has become very old not bringing her to pleasure. This woman used to have a high sex drive, now, nothing. I keep praying something comes back. Like Neil Peart wrote, sadder still to watch it die than never to have known it.


Then it is time to find a Dr. that gives a crap about their patients quality of life. My wife has no prpblem at all...but she takes HRT. Start searching for Drs in your aarea for HRT. I ho to a urologist for my testosterone rx. And blood work. Yall do not have tp live with a Dr bad practice...go else where!.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm in peri-menopause at the moment, so far my symptoms are all hormonal, nothing physical yet - not looking forward to that. I posted a thread last year (I think) about some of the changes, namely a complete lack of interest in sex which is very unusual for me. I've always been high drive and I was really upset about it, and worried about the effect it would have on my husband. I wanted to want to have sex, I just didn't want to, lol.

After an appointment with a great male (ironic?) gyno, I felt much better and had a better understanding of what was happening. My hormones are going a bit crazy right now, like a roller coaster lol. I have peaks where I'm insatiable, my poor husband - the last 3 nights I've woken him each night because I'm so horny lol. These peaks are followed by troughs of lows, where I have zero interest in nor think about, sex. Now that I'm aware of what's happening and why, these times are easier to navigate. As for the troughs, my husband isn't bothered by them - quite frankly, I think he enjoys the respite 🤣

I'm also one who feels that sometimes, if you care about your spouse, even if you're not in the mood you should still have sex. The exception being if it causes physical pain - and some menopause symptoms left untreated, can be very painful for the woman. But, it's also up to her to get that looked at and fixed.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

NtheToolManD said:


> Also - I should note that she is anti HRT as she says it increases her odds for cancer and cancer runs in her family. I don't know anything about how all that works but will be doing some reading over the weekend!



I would like to address two topics.

First that HRT is too expensive. No it is not, there are a number of national compounding pharmacies that can provide HRT at far less cost than the use of big pharma patented compounds.

In HRT Estradiol may or may not be cancer causing. Estriol protects against cancer. Some women can convert Estradiol into Estriol, and some can't. If a woman is on HTR, her Estriol and Estradiol should be tested and her Estriol levels should be kept higher. This kind of hormone customization is best handled by a compounding pharmacy and a doctor that understands these kinds AMA Journal published studies (done back in the 60's). Higher Estriol levels have been shown to have dramatically less cancers and if it occurs the survival times are far longer and better survival rates.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear OldShirt and Casual observer;

My heart goes out to both of you. I have been there. My wife and I are now in our early 70's and soon will have been married 49 years. About 10 years ago, I reached my limit in my sex starved marriage. 

I read about every relationship book I could get my hands on. I decided that by a certain milestone birthday, I would promise myself I would be in a loving sexual relationship with a woman. While I wanted it to be my wife, I was prepared mentally to divorce her. However, I wanted to try to fix my marriage and myself so any future relationship would stand a better chance of success.

In my reading and introspection, I learned that I was part of the problem and not just a victim. My wife had told me she had absolutely no sexual desire for me or anyone. She felt she was a victim in our marriage, even though she told me she would never have sex with me again. I think I understand some of what you are both feeling. 

M.W. Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage, Glovers No More Mr. Nice Guy, and Chapman's 5 Languages of Love inspired and taught me a lot.

I worked on changing myself or "Getting a Life." I lost weight, got in shape, trained for and ran half marathons, took up outdoor hobbies I had given up shortly after marriage, and started to dress better. I then started to do things that made her feel loved and cherished. I also indicated my sexual interest in her, but stopped being needy about sex. She liked the changes. I asked her to go to a naturopathic doctor specializing in women and hormone issues. I also asked her to go with me to a sex therapist. She did.

In addition to several months with the ST, we went to a Gottmans weekend workshop. Jointly read and discussed several relationship books on a chapter by chapter basis. Then a Marriage counceler
for a tune-up prior to retirement. 

It was hard work for both of us, but our marriage was rebuilt. We now typically have sex twice a week. There were times I didn't think we would make it. 

You may or may not choose to divorce, but sometimes it might work out. If nothing else if you try you and your next significant other will likely have a better relationship.

Good luck.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Dear OldShirt and Casual observer;
> 
> My heart goes out to both of you. I have been there. My wife and I are now in our early 70's and soon will have been married 49 years. About 10 years ago, I reached my limit in my sex starved marriage.
> 
> ...


We have kind of BTDT and have the matching t-shirts. 

Compared to most people in their 50s that have been together 25+ years, kids etc we probably actually have a pretty enviable marital sex life to many. 

We do still have a functional marital sex life, do still have physical affection and warmth. We have been to a couple different MCs a few years ago and I have the feeling if we were to go to MC or sex therapy now, the counselor/therapist would probably ask us what the problem is because he/she would likely think we were already ahead of the curve of 50+ year old married for 25 years. 

It's not that we don't have a marital sex life - it's that it is nothing like it was. Now admittedly, our previous sex life was something most porn stars would envy, so I am judging from a bar that I acknowledge is unrealistically high. 

And for me at this time in my life, it is very frustrating and border satisfactory. (and the reason I say 'borderline' is because I have not left or sought out someone else yet, so it must be somewhat good enough for now) 

If she was to tell me she wanted to divorce or tell me that she no longer wanted any kind of sex or physical life with me but wanted to be platonic roommates, I would give her a hug, wish her well, sit down and work out a fair and equitable asset division and parenting plan and then be on my way. No hard feelings on my end. No anger or resentment or bad blood. I would be sad and bummed, but no ill will. 

Cont.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

cont.....

So far what is helping me on my end is redefining what I view as "sex." 

If I were to see sex as strictly PIV, then yeah, things probably wouldn't be looking so good for the home team. 

But as I see sexuality as a whole constellation of activities and attitudes and mindsets, there is still a lot of ground to cover. 

She has basically lost all of her initiative and spontaneous desire. But she still wants and seems to enjoy some physical affection and warmth. She is good with cuddling and touching etc and if I get aroused (which I invariably will) she is good with doing a HJ or BJ or something to take care of me. 

And if things get warmed up enough, she will still want PIV and PIV still seems to be her primary source of orgasm. Approximately two weeks seems to be her threshold when she will want full contact and orgasm. 

So all things considered, our sex life is far from dead and like I said above, many 50+ year olds that have been together over 25 years would probably be envious.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sounds like this could be COVID, “stuck in doors to much” depression as much as menopause... perhaps her saying menopause is just a generalization about feeling kind of blah. I think we’re all feeling a bit blah these days. Stuck at home with no place to go and no romance isn’t exactly a recipe for great sex.

Just keep trying to be creative and romantic... maybe dress up and take her dancing in the living room or stargazing in the backyard.... try and get her out of her own head a bit and then make a move and see what happens....


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