# Separated from Wife - Really want her back.



## GotLifeBack

*Separated from Wife - Don't want her back!!*

Hi All, 

I'm new here, although over the last week and a half I've read a lot of posts.

A week and a half my wife left me because she was unhappy. Unhappy with my jealousy of her friends, particularly other male friends. She is staying with a friend currently but has sorted out a place to live.

Firstly, I'm 25 and my Wife is 24. We've been living together for almost 6 years and got married four months ago. 

Now let me explain my jealousy, I have very low self-esteem and also depression and anxiety. This has been going on for some time, however three weeks ago I began seeking help. I have explained to her that it's not that I don't trust her, it's that I felt like any guy she met was going to be better than me. I had an epiphany last week and my self-esteem is on the up again, which is good and she is pleased to see this.

Since we have split her mind has changed from "No way never" to "I'm falling in love with you again" back to "No way never" (after a fight) and to "I'm confused and I don't know what I want, give me space". We have been the most open and honest with each other we've ever been during this period also, it seems that both of us have been withholding our sexual fantasies for fear of scaring the other away, it turns out sexually, we're a perfect match. We have been "sexual" with each other but have not actually had sex. We have kissed and cuddled, and she has looked at me with the adoration that I used to see in her eyes.

I have seen her every day for commuting purposes since we parted ways. We have had some good discussions, and some bad ones. Some laughs and some sad times. 

A week or so before we split, an old friend of hers (they went out on a date in high school once) contacted her on Facebook and they met for lunch. I got jealous of this and I think this was the straw that broke the camels back.

Today while commuting with her, I inquired about her plans for the weekend and she told me that she is seeing this guy for dinner on Saturday. Foolishly I said "I thought he may have something to do with this!" rather than "Oh cool, have fun". As my self-esteem increases I have gotten over my jealousy, but my emotions are a little raw right now and I explained this to her and she understood.

Do you think she is testing me?

We are going in to NC for 2 weeks as of tonight, as I have arranged an alternative way to commute to work.

This morning she also told me she still fantasizes about me sexually, and that she's sad about NC because she is going to miss me.

I've been so up and down over the last 10 days. The mixed signals are driving me insane, but I hope NC helps.

I really do want to share my life with this woman, and as she only married me four months ago, I find it difficult to believe that she has completely given up on us. I asked her if I could take her on a date after the period of NC and she just said "We'll see".

Any opinions?


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## GutPunch

WantWifeBack said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm new here, although over the last week and a half I've read a lot of posts.
> 
> A week and a half my wife left me because she was unhappy. Unhappy with my jealousy of her friends, particularly other male friends. She is staying with a friend currently but has sorted out a place to live.
> 
> Firstly, I'm 25 and my Wife is 24. We've been living together for almost 6 years and got married four months ago.
> 
> Now let me explain my jealousy, I have very low self-esteem and also depression and anxiety. This has been going on for some time, however three weeks ago I began seeking help. I have explained to her that it's not that I don't trust her, it's that I felt like any guy she met was going to be better than me. I had an epiphany last week and my self-esteem is on the up again, which is good and she is pleased to see this.
> 
> Since we have split her mind has changed from "No way never" to "I'm falling in love with you again" back to "No way never" (after a fight) and to "I'm confused and I don't know what I want, give me space". We have been the most open and honest with each other we've ever been during this period also, it seems that both of us have been withholding our sexual fantasies for fear of scaring the other away, it turns out sexually, we're a perfect match. We have been "sexual" with each other but have not actually had sex. We have kissed and cuddled, and she has looked at me with the adoration that I used to see in her eyes.
> 
> I have seen her every day for commuting purposes since we parted ways. We have had some good discussions, and some bad ones. Some laughs and some sad times.
> 
> A week or so before we split, an old friend of hers (they went out on a date in high school once) contacted her on Facebook and they met for lunch. I got jealous of this and I think this was the straw that broke the camels back.
> 
> Today while commuting with her, I inquired about her plans for the weekend and she told me that she is seeing this guy for dinner on Saturday. Foolishly I said "I thought he may have something to do with this!" rather than "Oh cool, have fun". As my self-esteem increases I have gotten over my jealousy, but my emotions are a little raw right now and I explained this to her and she understood.
> 
> Do you think she is testing me?
> 
> We are going in to NC for 2 weeks as of tonight, as I have arranged an alternative way to commute to work.
> 
> This morning she also told me she still fantasizes about me sexually, and that she's sad about NC because she is going to miss me.
> 
> I've been so up and down over the last 10 days. The mixed signals are driving me insane, but I hope NC helps.
> 
> I really do want to share my life with this woman, and as she only married me four months ago, I find it difficult to believe that she has completely given up on us. I asked her if I could take her on a date after the period of NC and she just said "We'll see".
> 
> Any opinions?


Sorry you are here. Are you ok with your wife dating other men? That is exactly what she is doing. Don't let her spin the obvious. Next time she has a date why don't you tag along.

Here's the scoop. You are a doormat. She thinks she can do as she pleases and you'll just take it. ...and she is right.

Click the 180 link and live it. The Healing Heart: The 180

Read the following books:

No More Mr. Nice Guy
Not just Friends....
Married Mans Sex Life Primer

I promise you this, YOU WILL NOT NICE HER BACK!

Considering the amount of time you have been married I would see an attorney about an annulment. I know it is not what you want but in life shyt happens. You have poor boundaries. See a counselor for your grief and boundary issues. 

Good Luck


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## ThreeStrikes

Would your wife be OK with you having lunch with an old HS flame?


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## tulsy

WantWifeBack said:


> ...
> A week and a half my wife left me because she was unhappy.
> Unhappy with my jealousy of her male friends. She is staying with a friend currently but has sorted out a place to live.


Ya, I think that is pretty understandable that you would be jealous, given the situation you are in. Why does your wife have multiple guy friends? That's not right at all. Who convinced you this is YOUR problem?

Is she staying with a man right now?



WantWifeBack said:


> ...
> Firstly, I'm 25 and my Wife is 24. We've been living together for almost 6 years and got married four months ago.
> 
> .... We have been "sexual" with each other but have not actually had sex. We have kissed and cuddled


Umm...lived together for 6 years, married now for 4 months, never had sex?? Sounds more like a sister or roommate. That's not normal or common...the marriage has never ever been consummated.



WantWifeBack said:


> ...
> A week or so before we split, an old friend of hers (they went out on a date in high school once) contacted her on Facebook and they met for lunch. I got jealous of this and I think this was the straw that broke the camels back.
> 
> Today while commuting with her, I inquired about her plans for the weekend and she told me that she is seeing this guy for dinner on Saturday. Foolishly I said "I thought he may have something to do with this!" rather than "Oh cool, have fun".


There was nothing foolish about getting jealous here....you'd be a fool to think this wasn't really a problem. She's dating someone else...any man would be pissed off. 

So she has some how convinced you that YOU are the one with the problem?...because you get jealous that she won't have sex with you, her husband, but hangs out and goes on dates with other men? 

SHE is the one with the problem. This is ridiculous and childish, and you guys shouldn't have gotten married. You both need to grow up....she is not worth your time, at all. You would spend the rest of your life playing this game of, "you're just jealous and controlling....he's just a friend".

You should get an annulment or divorce and cut all ties with this baby. You need to grow up too, and start dating other grown-ups who respect reasonable relationship boundaries. 

Seriously, annulment, 180, and no more contact with the kid you married.


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## GotLifeBack

tulsy said:


> Umm...lived together for 6 years, married now for 4 months, never had sex?? Sounds more like a sister or roommate. That's not normal or common...the marriage has never ever been consummated.


Sorry - I meant we have been 'sexual' since the split but not had sex. Of course we've had sex in our relationship/marriage.

She says he's just a friend and it isn't a date, and my jealousy is a problem - it's pretty much what drove a wedge between us. There's nothing wrong with a married woman having male friends.

She doesn't go on dates with men, she has a male friend who she dated once back in high school, she's adamant there is nothing between them, and I believe her. and I sometimes get paranoid that she might meet someone when she goes out drinking with her friends due to my self-esteem issues.

She is currently living with a female friend.

I'm going to tell her that if anything happens with anyone during our separation, then it's over because I won't be second best.

I am also seeking counselling to get over my self-esteem issues and we are starting no contact tonight.

I love this woman to death, I don't want to get an annulment, or a divorce.


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## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> she has a male friend who she dated once back in high school, she's adamant there is nothing between them, and I believe her.


My ex's first affair was with a "friend" she dated while in HS. They re-connected on MySpace (Pre-Facebook times).

You are naive to believe there is nothing between them.

Time to wake up....


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## GotLifeBack

Well, I hope you're wrong this time.

She only dated him once in HS to get back at an ex. 

I'm not going to lie, my wife is quite selfish, and quite immature, but I love her despite flaws.

If I do find out something has happened with this guy, or any other guy, I will kick her to the curb. Until I have proof however, I have to believe she is innocent.


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## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, I hope you're wrong this time.
> 
> She only dated him once in HS to get back at an ex.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, my wife is quite selfish, and quite immature, but I love her despite flaws.
> 
> If I do find out something has happened with this guy, or any other guy, I will kick her to the curb. Until I have proof however, I have to believe she is innocent.


How will you find out? Do you expect her to tell you?


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## GotLifeBack

In all honesty, yes I do. She doesn't want to lead me on anymore than I want to be led on. I know how she feels about me and I am confident in that.

She needs to decide what she wants, and she needs to see that things can be different. I can show her that, no problem. I am sorting my life out, for me, not for her - if it doesn't work out with her, I'll get over it one day and be able to move on.


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## BeachGuy

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, I hope you're wrong this time.
> 
> She only dated him once in HS to get back at an ex.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, my wife is quite selfish, and quite immature, but I love her despite flaws.
> 
> If I do find out something has happened with this guy, or any other guy, I will kick her to the curb. Until I have proof however, I have to believe she is innocent.



Do you provide for her? Could she survive on her own?

Meeting an "old friend" for lunch while unhappy in her current marriage and you don't think this is sexual? Bro.....wake the f*** up. Let her go. Start completely ignoring her. That's the best/worst thing you can do to her at this point.


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## GotLifeBack

I don't think it's sexual. Honestly I don't.

I did provide for her yeah, I don't any more though. She provides for herself, and is doing okay at the moment but I think she'll struggle when she moves out of her friend's place.


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## lifeistooshort

Your jealousy may or may not be a problem but it sounds to me like she isn't ready to be married, and you can't force that. You can't force her to grow up on your timetable. She's still enjoying lots of male attention from her "friends"; don't know who she thinks she's kidding there. Be glad you found out now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotLifeBack

She is very young, we met when we were 18 and within 3 months had moved in together. It was all very sudden.

She does want to recapture her teenage years and have a busy social calendar, but I know that she also loves me. This is why she is conflicted. She needs to see that she can have me, and friends, as long as they are nothing more.


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## Conrad

ThreeStrikes said:


> How will you find out? Do you expect her to tell you?


I think his moniker says it all.


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## GutPunch

I know you think your situation is different.

We all did. I can assure you it is not.

We veterans have seen this over and over again. 

Let me ask you some questions.

1. Before your wife left, did you have access to her cell and could you read her text messages? Or was it passcode protected.

2. Do you have access to her cell records now? Can you see who she is texting and how much?

I already know the answer to question number 1, but I want you to tell me.


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## tom67

GutPunch said:


> I know you think your situation is different.
> 
> We all did. I can assure you it is not.
> 
> We veterans have seen this over and over again.
> 
> Let me ask you some questions.
> 
> 1. Before your wife left, did you have access to her cell and could you read her text messages? Or was it passcode protected.
> 
> 2. Do you have access to her cell records now? Can you see who she is texting and how much?
> 
> I already know the answer to question number 1, but I want you to tell me.


That would be a good start.:iagree:


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## GotLifeBack

GutPunch said:


> I know you think your situation is different.
> 
> We all did. I can assure you it is not.
> 
> We veterans have seen this over and over again.
> 
> Let me ask you some questions.
> 
> 1. Before your wife left, did you have access to her cell and could you read her text messages? Or was it passcode protected.
> 
> 2. Do you have access to her cell records now? Can you see who she is texting and how much?
> 
> I already know the answer to question number 1, but I want you to tell me.


I had access to her cell, I also know her facebook and email passwords - unless she has changed them since leaving.


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## GutPunch

Did you see the texts from her bff?

Can you see her texting records online?


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## upacreek

If the texts are from iPhone to iPhone, they're sent as iMessages, and there's no record of them on a cell phone bill.


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## Jntrs

upacreek said:


> If the texts are from iPhone to iPhone, they're sent as iMessages, and there's no record of them on a cell phone bill.


if he can get a hold of the iphone he could turn off imessage... its what i did


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## harrybrown

Tell you to go on the date with you.


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## tulsy

WantWifeBack said:


> ...
> She says he's just a friend and it isn't a date, and *my jealousy is a problem* - it's pretty much what drove a wedge between us. *There's nothing wrong with a married woman having male friends*.
> 
> *She doesn't go on dates with men, she has a male friend who she dated once back in high school, she's adamant there is nothing between them, and I believe her*. and I sometimes get paranoid that she might meet someone when she goes out drinking with her friends due to my self-esteem issues.
> 
> She is currently living with a female friend.
> 
> I'm going to tell her that if anything happens with anyone during our separation, then it's over because I won't be second best.
> 
> I am also seeking counselling to get over my self-esteem issues and we are starting no contact tonight.
> 
> I love this woman to death, I don't want to get an annulment, or a divorce.


*Like, how many male friends does she have?*

You better wake up. There is definitely something wrong with:

- married person going out with any ex, in any capacity if the spouse is uncomfortable with it
- married person going out with someone of the opposite-sex without the spouse having knowledge before hand, and then dismissing their spouses feelings by calling them jealous after they learns about it
- married person going out with someone of the opposite-sex that their spouse doesn't know when the spouse is uncomfortable with it
- married person going out to dinner with someone of the opposite-sex, regardless of what their spouse thinks about it

I guess if you are sure that you are the one with the problem, then keep going down this path. 

This path leads to:

- you taking all of the blame for the relationship issues, since she will insist it's all because of your jealousy, and you agree with anything she says so she will stay
- she will no longer respect you and it will get progressively worse until you catch her cheating
- she will continue to go on dates with men and you will continue to try and accept it but inside you will keep fighting with yourself because you don't like it and never will




WantWifeBack said:


> She is very young, we met when we were 18 and within 3 months had moved in together. It was all very sudden.
> 
> *She does want to recapture her teenage years and have a busy social calendar, but I know that she also loves me. This is why she is conflicted. She needs to see that she can have me, and friends, as long as they are nothing more.*


Ya, she needs to know that she can have you and other men as well....but they're just friends, right? 

Then you go get yourself female friends. Lots of them. Go out with girls and have fun, just friends right? Go to bars and meet girls for new friends. Contact past girlfriends on Facebook and meet up for dinner, one on one. Go on...why not? Just friends, right?

Dude, someone already said it, but you really are naive. She's not a teenager anymore, and she's your wife. 

Why are you here, and what do you want to hear? That you are the one with the problem and what your wife is doing is acceptable? That's not the case.

What's your plan? To learn to accept her having lots of male attention and going out with other guys whenever she wants; to learn how to not get jealous when this happens for the rest of your life so that you can stay married to her? Is that the plan?


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## helolover

Don't allow yourself to be cuckold'd by this woman. It's not okay. If you go along with it, you're just being a beta orbiter - waiting for her to find you desirable again. It seems you're already second place. She wants her separation to date other dudes. 

Pull your head out of the sand. Put your big boy pants on and state your position. You will not get her back by accommodating her. 

Go NC, stay NC. Stop supporting her trash. Start and maintain the 180 (remember, this isn't a ploy to get her back). Get your stuff together and stop making excuses for her. 

HL


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## GotLifeBack

I wish you guys knew her - then you'd know, she just wants to be more socially active. I fully get that she doesn't quite realise what marriage is - she's not mature enough and I accept that. I shouldn't have married her, and more to the point she definitely shouldn't have married me as she's told me she had "doubts" about us but figured they'd pass. I still love this woman very much though and I want her in my life.

It's not just jealousy that was my problem, I pushed her away, rejected her compliments, and at times rejected her sexually because of my depression, which made her feel unwanted.

I know it's not all my fault and I've told her that - at the start of our relationship on two occasions she sought to make me jealous by chatting to other guys in bars and ignoring me all night. She told me some months later that she was "testing" me - I believe this is what she is doing now by going to dinner with this guy. She's as much to blame as I.

She also didn't communicate with me, she bottled everything up then snapped. Classic WAW. 

We have started NC, for two weeks as of last night. I saw her to say "goodbye" (i got emotional...) and she pretty much told me that there is no chance of her ever getting back together with me, as it's "too late" - but as she said "You know that I love you" and that we'd see how she felt after a couple of weeks. She's hurt that I've been miserable even though we're newly wed - she doesn't seem to get that it's a sickness. I've been on medication for the past four weeks and have started counselling though.

This happened before 3 years ago, I got depressed and she left me, so this relapse has really driven her away - she says she doesn't believe in "third chances".

She's confusing the hell out of me. I'm not going to lie to you guys though, I hope this time apart makes her see what she's missing out on.

I've taken all of our wedding photos down, taken my wedding ring off and have been trying to occupy my mind so as not to dwell on it.


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## ThreeStrikes

She's going to use this time apart to bang the other guy.

Let her go. Go to an attorney and file. You are both too young for marriage.


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## LongWalk

The person who wants the relationship less has all the power. You say that if your wife slept with another man it would be over. Be honest, in your current state of neediness if she revealed that she had ONS and discovered that it was you she wanted, you'd probably reconcile. She knows this. To win respect you have walk away, file to annul. If she loves you, that will catch her attention. Discussion of depression and relationship will just sink you lower and lower in her eyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

ThreeStrikes said:


> She's going to use this time apart to bang the other guy.
> 
> Let her go. Go to an attorney and file. You are both too young for marriage.


Too young for marriage at 25, the onset of middle age? Hardly. Prior to 200 years ago, a person of such an age could be expected to have 10 kids after 10 years of marriage.

This is merely mother nature at work, redirecting attraction to males with higher testosterone levels and greater attractiveness. OP knows his "sex rank" and he seems to think this is the best woman he's ever going to get. Once he gets his testosterone levels sorted out, he'll be able to get it together and move on.


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## Ceegee

You have been brainwashed by society to believe that women should be able to do whatever they want. If we question it we're jealous and controlling. 

It's why men have such poor boundaries and why the divorce rate is so high. 

Don't feel bad. All of us were brainwashed too. That's why we're here. Most of our stories sound a lot like yours. 

Your wife flirts with other men in front of you. Now she's going on a date with an old BF. Of course you have low self esteem. A wife should be supportive of you. Instead she's doubling down on the behavior to make you feel worse. 

She's a selfish cake-eater.


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## ThreeStrikes

Machiavelli said:


> Too young for marriage at 25, the onset of middle age? Hardly. Prior to 200 years ago, a person of such an age could be expected to have 10 kids after 10 years of marriage.
> 
> This is merely mother nature at work, redirecting attraction to males with higher testosterone levels and greater attractiveness. OP knows his "sex rank" and he seems to think this is the best woman he's ever going to get. Once he gets his testosterone levels sorted out, he'll be able to get it together and move on.


I'm not talking about reproducing. I'm talking about marriage. Marriage is a social construct.

Which society are you referring to, 200 years ago? There were many.

The reason we have society, and social rules,ethics,and customs, is to overcome the animalistic nature of humanity. 

Choosing to betray your spouse is a matter of integrity, not biology.

In today's society, in the US, 25 is too young for marriage. The OP even admits it.

In the middle east, where society is more primitive, then sure.. A 25 year old can have 10 kids. And multiple wives.

Sorry for the topic derailment.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

She's not testing you. She's done with the marriage.

I'm sorry, but you need to move on.


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## LongWalk

Agree with all the posters above. Your wife regrets marrying you. That seed of doubt has come so early on. Go dark on her. Only interact with regards to the annulment. She will be looking for you to return with the anxious look of a young dog desperate to mate. Deny her that predictability. On the day after the day that your exile ends have the goodbye papers in the registered post to her. Don't be at home if she returns. Come back late. Hang out with friends. Go to shooting range or theater.

Don't let her reject or pity you. You can do better than her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

ThreeStrikes said:


> I'm not talking about reproducing. I'm talking about marriage. Marriage is a social construct.


All societies constructed it as a means of regulating reproduction. Are you advocating reproduction absent marriage?



ThreeStrikes said:


> Which society are you referring to, 200 years ago? There were many.


Colonial America, Native America (including the matrilineal ones), Europe, Africa, ME, Asia, we can go all the way back to the ancient world.



ThreeStrikes said:


> The reason we have society, and social rules,ethics,and customs, is to overcome the animalistic nature of humanity.


Society is an attempt to overcome nature. Obviously, an increasingly less successful attempt as feral behaviors such as those exhibited by this WW reassert their dominance.




ThreeStrikes said:


> Choosing to betray your spouse is a matter of integrity, not biology.


Actually, the urge is quite biological and the success or failure to control the urge also has a biological component. Willpower is in short supply until male testosterone levels start plateauing around age 25, and that's why it was called "middle age"; i.e. the end of "youth."




ThreeStrikes said:


> In today's society, in the US, 25 is too young for marriage. The OP even admits it.


That's just the excuse, but in the present environment marriage is a very risky proposition for the delta males.




ThreeStrikes said:


> In the middle east, where society is more primitive, then sure.. A 25 year old can have 10 kids. And multiple wives.
> 
> Sorry for the topic derailment.


While there is nothing inherently wrong with polygyny, I don't really consider 1950's USA to be particularly "primitive." Same goes for Renaissance Europe and even Rome.


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## LongWalk

In this debate, and there are very few TAM women posters who engage or show interest in this subject, men feel strongly. My take is that long ago human societies that gave beta males a better shot a reproduction via a wife who was bound to him by moral stricture were more successful. Twelve men with spears who advanced as team beat the average super athletic alpha male warrior.

The men who participated in this scheme were not interested in having their leaders sleep with their wives. Marriage reduced strife (e.g., jealous murders). Population increased as a result. Agriculture and industry further magnified the success of the monogamous nuclear family.

As Mach points out all societies are primarily concerned with regulation of sexual and reproductive behavior. Even if some Islamic societies permit polygamy, the average Muslim family is probably closer to a Western nuclear family for economic reasons.

So, for men who marry in modern Western society, the desire of women switch partners is major shock. Women are looking for different DNA to create a new combination that increases the chances of their genes going on. Adulterous sex is often without a condom for good reason.

Are men net winners or losers? Is the current system, i.e., no fault divorce, this can be debated.

As far as ethics go. Yes, this is a matter of integrity.

By the way, an old buddy of mine (corporate IT middle manager) called to shot the breeze and wanted to express how frustrated he was because a smart beautiful woman who had just joined his team was flirting with him. “I think because I am one of the two senior persons in the group, she wants to be on my good side for the sake of job security.”

For him her flirting underlined the dullness and frustration his married life. He has two small sons and he and his wife and don’t have a good sex life anymore. He is quite a moral person. However, his family background – he was abandoned early on by his father to be raised as the only child of a nutty single mom – has left the sort of void and scars that create cheaters. I don’t think will try if for no other reason than the woman engaging him in flirtation but she is not in love with him and there is no LTR there to be had.

But it was torture to be paired with her at a team-building event that led to physical contact (modern work life in which companies undermine marriages by demanding emotional allegiance to colleagues). He could have sex with her after at that sort of event but it would probably blow up in his face and he knows it.

The moral difference between the cheaters and non-cheaters is not always so great as we might like to believe.

There is plenty of dull misery in marriages that have better and worse periods. Infidelity may give happiness to some when they get away with it but when it blows up the pain is rather raw.


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## GotLifeBack

So first day of No Contact is almost over, and she has already text me.

The text was just to let me know she'd taken care of a financial arrangement, that she had already told me she would do and thus a pointless text. It was in a light-hearted tone, and she tagged a "hope you're ok" on the end.

I haven't replied and nor am I going to. She needs to respect that I am strong, and this is how to show her.

I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.


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## LongWalk

You are placing too much emphasis on surviving NC and hoping for a result from it. You need to change yourself and the dynamics of your relationship. That will take more time.


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## GutPunch

WantWifeBack said:


> So first day of No Contact is almost over, and she has already text me.
> 
> The text was just to let me know she'd taken care of a financial arrangement, that she had already told me she would do and thus a pointless text. It was in a light-hearted tone, and she tagged a "hope you're ok" on the end.
> 
> I haven't replied and nor am I going to. She needs to respect that I am strong, and this is how to show her.
> 
> I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.


She will test you and your resolve. Don't fold like a pup tent when she does.

What did you find out from the phone records?

How does she support herself financially? Do you help?


----------



## Iver

WantWifeBack said:


> ...I won't be second best to anyone, and I won't be her safety net. I deserve better than that. If NC gets her to come back, then great, if not, then great cause I'll still have me, and my friends.


Good.

Keep that attitude and you'll be A.O.K. (and you'll have your self-respect as well.)


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, little update.

I've been keeping a journal of everything lately. A female friend (only a friend) had invited me to stay with her for a while. I wrote this in my journal.

Yesterday my wife decided to read my journal when she was moving her stuff out. She read about that and went crazy.

Now she tells me she's in bed lying next to her new man, and that she's moved on.

Obviously a rebound, but that **** can take a hike.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm so damn angry right now 

She was the biggest mistake of my life.


----------



## smallsteps

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm so damn angry right now
> 
> She was the biggest mistake of my life.


Good you realized it now. Pick yourself up, walk away from her and start over.
You are young enough that someday you will find the right person an live a happy life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm so damn angry right now
> 
> She was the biggest mistake of my life.


Yep.

This is the moment of clarity you needed.

Use your anger to fuel the upcoming days. Go file. Refuse to tolerate this relationship any longer.


----------



## Conrad

WWB,

Keep in mind, she was YOUR mistake.

Get right with you before you do it again.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah, I'm done with her.

I'm going to focus on myself and heal. I won't be ready for another relationship, or to trust someone for a very long time (if at all). Doesn't mean I can't be happy in myself though.

I wish I'd listened to you guys before, but she kept leading me on and I only saw what I wanted to see. Things have been gradually going downwards this week until they hit rock bottom yesterday.

Her family are very angry at her for putting me through this, as they are very fond of me.

She will regret this, I know it, and when she tries to come crawling back in to my life, I will laugh in her face.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Yep.
> 
> This is the moment of clarity you needed.
> 
> Use your anger to fuel the upcoming days. Go file. Refuse to tolerate this relationship any longer.


I can't file for divorce as in the UK you need to have been married for a year. 

I can't get an annulment as in the UK adultery is not grounds for annulment.

I've gotta ride it out for another 8 months, but this marriage ended today in my heart.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

What *is* grounds for an annulment in the UK?


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Her family are very angry at her for putting me through this, as they are very fond of me.


Do not bank on this lasting.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Do not bank on this lasting.


Don't worry, i'm not.

Ground for annulment in the UK are:

1. You can annul a marriage if it was not legally valid in the first place, eg:

you are closely related
you are the same sex
one of you was under 16
one of you was already married or in a civil partnership

2. Your marriage is defective - ‘voidable’ marriages
You can annul a marriage if:

it wasn’t consummated (you haven’t had sex with the person you married since the wedding)
you didn’t properly consent to the marriage - eg you were drunk or forced into it
the other person had a sexually transmitted disease when you got married
the woman was pregnant by another man when you got married

So, based upon that I have no grounds for annulment.

I'm not even sure I have grounds to file for adultery, as we separated?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not even sure I have grounds to file for adultery, as we separated?


Check with an attorney on that one. 

From here on out, make sure you maintain separate finances. I think you mentioned that you were already doing that. But be sure she doesn't take out credit in your name.


----------



## Tron

OP,

Why wouldn't your STBX simply consent to one of those excuses to annul the marriage?

Seems the best one that doesn't make anyone look bad is just to say you were too drunk or that it was never consummated. Just put it out there and see if she will go along with. Get the sham of a M you are in over and done with. Noone wants to be a "divorcee" and go through the process if you don't have to. An annulment seems so much easier and quicker with fewer long term ramifications.


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



ThreeStrikes said:


> My ex's first affair was with a "friend" she dated while in HS. They re-connected on MySpace (Pre-Facebook times).
> 
> You are naive to believe there is nothing between them.
> 
> Time to wake up....


Facebook is the Devil IMO. Too easy to see and contact old flames. Ugh


----------



## GotLifeBack

It's funny you should say that, because I have suggested we agree to an annulment and just say we never consummated the marriage. She's going to look in to it further and decide.

We both said and did some very hurtful things to each other over the weekend, and now we're being civil and she's saying things like she'll always love me but can't be with me, that she doesn't like the way things are etc.

I'm not sure if she's reaching out to try fix things, or not, but I'll assume not and go for that annulment. If she does want to try, she's going to need to come out and say it rather than just hinting.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> It's funny you should say that, because I have suggested we agree to an annulment and just say we never consummated the marriage. She's going to look in to it further and decide.
> 
> We both said and did some very hurtful things to each other over the weekend, and now we're being civil and she's saying things like she'll always love me but can't be with me, that she doesn't like the way things are etc.
> 
> I'm not sure if she's reaching out to try fix things, or not, but I'll assume not and go for that annulment. If she does want to try, she's going to need to come out and say it rather than just hinting.


If she follows the script, she wants to be "friends"

I would 100% advise against that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> If she follows the script, she wants to be "friends"
> 
> I would 100% advise against that.


We both know that we can't be friends unfortunately, the feelings between us are just too strong for it to be healthy for either of us. She still loves me and I still love her. As of around ten minutes ago, we said goodbye for the final time. It was not easy at all. 

I hope that once her grass is greener syndrome passes, she'll realise what a mistake she has made. Whether I'd still take her back at that point however, remains to be seen. In my head I want her gone, but my heart would take her back right away.

Maybe in a couple of years when I'm completely over her, we can be friends, but I guess we'll see.

Really going to struggle with this permanent no contact.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> We both know that we can't be friends unfortunately, the feelings between us are just too strong for it to be healthy for either of us. She still loves me and I still love her. As of around ten minutes ago, we said goodbye for the final time. It was not easy at all.
> 
> I hope that once her grass is greener syndrome passes, she'll realise what a mistake she has made. Whether I'd still take her back at that point however, remains to be seen. In my head I want her gone, but my heart would take her back right away.
> 
> Maybe in a couple of years when I'm completely over her, we can be friends, but I guess we'll see.
> 
> Really going to struggle with this permanent no contact.


Forgive me if I've already asked... are you in counseling?


----------



## MSC71

My wife said she loved me but could not come back. Annoyed me.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad - Yes I'm in counselling for my low self-esteem and depression/anxiety. It's really helping and I'm also taking medication.

MSC71 - My wife said this to me yesterday, the "I'll always love you but I can't be with you after everything that has happened".
I always think that given time anything is possible, but I'm not about to sit and wait for her to realise she wants to come back. We've both done a lot of hurtful things to one another over the course of the break-up, maybe things will seem different once the dust has settled?

Today is the first day of "permanent" no contact, however at some point we will need to discuss divorce/annulment proceedings.

I still have a glimmer of hope that she'll realise her mistake before it gets that far, but I'm really trying not to hang on to that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, the no contact never really started as we have a few financial arrangements to take care of that got overlooked.

We have been texting for most of the morning, and have even flirted a little. However she asked that we stop flirting, and she then began to talk to me about how I hurt her at the weekend. 

I'm not quite sure where this is leading, but I don't want things to turn nasty again so I am doing my best to keep the situation under control.

After the finances have been sorted out, I believe no contact will truly begin.


----------



## MSC71

Best thing to do is no flirting. No talks about anything but business. Any effort you make to talk to her ir flirt etc will only make it worse. Best bet is to do the 180.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I have been 180'ing apart from no contact really, and have been doing it for myself, not for her. I want her to see that I'm changed, and she won't if I'm not in her life.

I do still want her back though, I wish I didn't.


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



WantWifeBack said:


> I have been 180'ing apart from no contact really, and have been doing it for myself, not for her. I want her to see that I'm changed, and she won't if I'm not in her life.
> 
> I do still want her back though, I wish I didn't.


I know how you feel. My ex . started showing some interest after a month of me ignoring her. My mistake was I took that interest of hers and stopped doing the 180 and it pushed her further away.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm not going to stop doing the 180 - I need to make a lot of changes to my life for myself and my own happiness, so there's no danger of that.

I know that when I'm all good again and my depression is fully under control (it's hugely improved thanks to meds and counselling) she's going to want to come back.

It's just a matter of time.... and how much emotional rollercoaster I can handle.


----------



## MSC71

Yeah. It is very hard to ignore them when you want them back. Just have to remind yourself that as much as you want to talk to them, it only makes it worse.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah it's not easy is it? 

The fact that she says she'll always love me but can't be with me is what's getting me - if she'll always love me, surely that's as good a reason as any to give it a shot?

And if I know her half as well as I think I do, that love will tear her up in time.


----------



## LongWalk

Her eternal love, sorry, just words at this point.


----------



## hereinthemidwest

Your sixth sense maybe kicking in....you are feeling jealous when she's hanging out with guy friends because she's blowing them! 

My opinion....my life experience...wisdom. No single male should be a married womens companion. NEVER Now if he gay and you know for sure...( gay guys make great GF) fine. If it's a co-worker and YOU ARE INCLUDED fine. 

Take your blinders off....LOCKED PHONE?? A married couple do not lock / keep secrets.


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah it's not easy is it?
> 
> The fact that she says she'll always love me but can't be with me is what's getting me - if she'll always love me, surely that's as good a reason as any to give it a shot?
> 
> And if I know her half as well as I think I do, that love will tear her up in time.


It may tear her up. But if it does then that will be determined by you not contacting her. And dont look for business reasons to contact her. I did that. Looked for an excuse to call. Just bite the bullet. Maybe even email her business stuff instead as its documented then.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah it's not easy is it?
> 
> The fact that she says she'll always love me but can't be with me is what's getting me - if she'll always love me, surely that's as good a reason as any to give it a shot?
> 
> And if I know her half as well as I think I do, that love will tear her up in time.


WWB -

Do her actions tell you that she still loves you?

That doesn't necessarily mean that she's lying. She probably just doesn't know what love is.

Show me don't tell me...


----------



## GotLifeBack

This Saturday we are sorting out our finances and going for coffee afterwards, so she can explain why it is that she can't get back together with me. After this, I will be going in to complete no contact.

I know words are cheap, but her actions since we split do suggest she still loves me. Even though we are supposed to be in no contact at the moment, she has text me every day. When we had separated but were still seeing each other for her to move her stuff out of the house and so on, we were affectionate and sometimes sexual. She is still attracted to me. I have seen the love in the way she has looked at me at times. 

A week or so ago an old female friend (purely 100% platonic) who has just split with her boyfriend of 5 years invited me to go and stay with her for the weekend, so I can get away from this situation for a bit. I wrote this in my journal and one day when collecting her stuff my wife read the journal, she absolutely freaked out about it and I have never seen her so furious in our six years together. What would have caused a reaction such as that if not love? If she was done with me, she would have been indifferent, but clearly she felt threatened.

Maybe I'm reading too much in to all this, I don't know.


----------



## angstire

Cake eating behavior. She wants to keep you locked down away from other women, platonic or not.

As to the I love you, but I'm not in love with you. My experience (narrow as that is), women can say this, but what it means to men (me anyway), I used to love you and I will always care about you, but I don't love you anymore. 

I'd prefer they sub care for love when they don't love anymore. But, wishes, fishes....yada, yada


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Cake eating behavior. She wants to keep you locked down away from other women, platonic or not.
> 
> As to the I love you, but I'm not in love with you. My experience (narrow as that is), women can say this, but what it means to men (me anyway), I used to love you and I will always care about you, but I don't love you anymore. I'd prefer they sub care for love when they don't love anymore. But, wishes, fishes....yada, yada


Maybe you're right - I guess time will tell.

I am going to go stay with my friend the weekend after next though, a change of scenery will do me good.

As for ILYB - I see what you're saying, and at first I thought of it this way, but as time has gone on I've seen more and more that there are romantic feelings there. Or, maybe I just want to see it, I don't know.

I just don't know anything really, it's all so confusing.


----------



## angstire

Chuck said, and I believe it, the left behind will look for meaning where there isn't any. If she doesn't show you with actions that she loves you, she doesn't. She cares for you, most likely, but she isn't acting like she loves you.

My $.02


----------



## GotLifeBack

Fair enough - I guess we'll see in time.

If she does love me, the no contact will drive her crazy. If she doesn't, then it won't.

I know it'll drive me crazy, but I need to find constructive ways to deal with it.


----------



## angstire

Do all the stuff to try and focus on other things and distract yourself, until you're strong enough to do no contact easily.

Work out, do hobbies, go out with friends, work. That will all help.

Try to focus on you as much as you can. You are only responsible for you. Your happiness, getting your needs met, etc. 

Try not to focus on her, including it driving her crazy. She started this, she wanted out, so give it to her. Work on you. She might come back and like the new you, but you have to live with you for the rest of your life (weird, right?).

People will come and go: wives, lovers, kids, friends, parents, etc. You will always have you, so focus on being who you want to be and the best at that. I'll be the first to say that a good SO adds a lot to life, but she's not necessary. Try not to care or think actively about how what you're doing is impacting her, what she's thinking, etc.

After you focus on yourself and detach, you may want her back. And you may not. But, if you're happy with you, it will be the right choice either way.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Fair enough - I guess we'll see in time.
> 
> If she does love me, the no contact will drive her crazy. If she doesn't, then it won't.
> 
> I know it'll drive me crazy, but I need to find constructive ways to deal with it.


WWB, if she loved you she wouldn't be putting you through this. This is the action you should be focusing on.

Affections, words, etc. are remnants...habits. They have no meaning.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah I get that - I am going to try detach myself from the situation after Saturday. It's too painful to be "so close yet so far" so to speak.

I have been working out more and focusing on hobbies, I've also been socialising a lot which helps a lot.

Unfortunately I'm still at the stage of heartache and longing. I know that will pass, and I know I am capable of being happy with, or without her, I'd just rather it was with her.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Unfortunately I'm still at the stage of heartache and longing. I know that will pass, and I know I am capable of being happy with, or without her, I'd just rather it was with her.


I totally get it bro. I'm still there on some days too. I'm in a different spot than I was when this first went down for me, but it was SO intense then. It's more like a dull ache now. I miss her, the relationship, the family. I think xmas and when I'm on a beach vacation will always have a little tinge of "this sucks".

Time heals. It doesn't cure, the ache may not ever go away completely, but as you work on you, it will get bearable. Then it will fade to something that only comes up a few times a year. That may take years, but even six months in, it's so much better than it was.

This points to your good stuff. Emotionally mature people realize what they've lost and feel the grief. Feel the emotions, don't bottle them up and get stuck without moving thru all the grief. But it's ok to distract yourself with focus on yourself with hobbies, socializing, work, exercise. And just keep in mind that it will get better, week by week. My experience is not day by day, because there are really good and bad days in a given week, but eventually the weekly trend is towards an even level of ache that just gets less with time.

You're doing well and will be ok.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I totally get it bro. I'm still there on some days too. I'm in a different spot than I was when this first went down for me, but it was SO intense then. It's more like a dull ache now. I miss her, the relationship, the family. I think xmas and when I'm on a beach vacation will always have a little tinge of "this sucks".
> 
> Time heals. It doesn't cure, the ache may not ever go away completely, but as you work on you, it will get bearable. Then it will fade to something that only comes up a few times a year. That may take years, but even six months in, it's so much better than it was.
> 
> This points to your good stuff. Emotionally mature people realize what they've lost and feel the grief. Feel the emotions, don't bottle them up and get stuck without moving thru all the grief. But it's ok to distract yourself with focus on yourself with hobbies, socializing, work, exercise. And just keep in mind that it will get better, week by week. My experience is not day by day, because there are really good and bad days in a given week, but eventually the weekly trend is towards an even level of ache that just gets less with time.
> 
> You're doing well and will be ok.


I know it will get easier in time. She keeps contacting me via text every day though - so today I'm not going to reply, or if I do I'm going to leave it a good long while, and then by short on words.

I do have a lot of things to look forward to from singledom I guess. Like I can finally learn to drive - we couldn't afford for us both to drive so I made the sacrifice and let her get a car and a licence. Now I've had to move back in with my father, I should be able to afford to do that. I'll have more time to focus on hobbies and doing what I enjoy. I don't have to worry about her getting angry with me for being hungover if I want to go out! 

I'd like to say I'd still trade all of that for her, but I don't know if I would. She was jealous, and controlling, maybe even bordering on emotionally abusive. She needs to change too before I can take her back.


----------



## GotLifeBack

She's already text me today saying "Morning  How are you today?".

I don't know what she's playing at but in that moment I made the decision not to reply. I'm not going to be strung along as her plan B.

She needs to sh*t or get off the pot.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> She's already text me today saying "Morning  How are you today?".
> 
> I don't know what she's playing at but in that moment I made the decision not to reply. I'm not going to be strung along as her plan B.
> 
> She needs to sh*t or get off the pot.


She's just stringing you along. She needs you to want her. 

It's just plain selfishness. 

Don't reply. Think about yourself for once.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> She's just stringing you along. She needs you to want her.
> 
> It's just plain selfishness.
> 
> Don't reply. Think about yourself for once.


I haven't replied and three hours after she sent me another text saying "Have I done something to upset you?".

I don't think I'm going to reply to that either. She needs to see what she's losing.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I haven't replied and three hours after she sent me another text saying "Have I done something to upset you?".
> 
> I don't think I'm going to reply to that either. *She needs to see what she's losing.*


Maybe, but more importantly you need to start focusing on you. Try not to think about how things may affect her. Do what's best for you.

When she married you she made you a promise. She broke that promise. Do friends do that to each other?

She is not your friend.

Only do what's healthy for you. 

The "Have I done something to upset you?" is baiting you for drama.

Has anyone given you this yet?

An Overview of the Drama Triangle


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Maybe, but more importantly you need to start focusing on you. Try not to think about how things may affect her. Do what's best for you.
> 
> When she married you she made you a promise. She broke that promise. Do friends do that to each other?
> 
> She is not your friend.
> 
> Only do what's healthy for you.
> 
> The "Have I done something to upset you?" is baiting you for drama.
> 
> Has anyone given you this yet?
> 
> An Overview of the Drama Triangle


Nobody has linked me to that yet, no.

It's really difficult, my every instinct is to try my hardest to win back the woman I love, but I really do need to just forget about it.

I'm both looking forward to and dreading the day I lose my remaining shred of hope.

Now I've ignored her for almost 5 hours, even if I were to respond, she would be p*ssed off about my not replying.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Nobody has linked me to that yet, no.
> 
> It's really difficult, my every instinct is to try my hardest to win back the woman I love, but I really do need to just forget about it.
> 
> I'm both looking forward to and dreading the day I lose my remaining shred of hope.
> 
> Now I've ignored her for almost 5 hours, even if I were to respond, she would be p*ssed off about my not replying.


If you know that she'll be pizzed off then you already know, at least subconsciously, how selfish she is.

"How dare he not answer me?"

She wants you at her beckon call. She wants to dump you but wants you to keep her as a priority. 

That's f'ed up.

But you let her do this to you. You need to learn why you let her treat you this way. 

You have self esteem issues. Do you believe you let her treat you the way she does because of your low self esteem or do you have low self esteem because of how she treats you?

And STOP WORRYING about how she might react to what you do or don't do.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB, 

As Angstire said, your wife is a classic cake-eater:

http://chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/

Cake-eaters love to play this game:

http://chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/

Don't play her game. Be strong. She's a user.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> If you know that she'll be pizzed off then you already know, at least subconsciously, how selfish she is.
> 
> "How dare he not answer me?"
> 
> She wants you at her beckon call. She wants to dump you but wants you to keep her as a priority.
> 
> That's f'ed up.
> 
> But you let her do this to you. You need to learn why you let her treat you this way.
> 
> You have self esteem issues. Do you believe you let her treat you the way she does because of your low self esteem or do you have low self esteem because of how she treats you?
> 
> And STOP WORRYING about how she might react to what you do or don't do.


Yeah, I get that it's f'ed up, and I get that people will only treat you the way you let them. At the moment she's out having her lovely new single life, and she's still got me right where she wants me.

I've always had self-esteem issues, and I believe I've let her walk all over me for fear of losing her.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I've always had self-esteem issues, and I believe I've let her walk all over me for fear of losing her.


How did that work out for you?


----------



## Jntrs

have you read "No more mr. nice guy"?

if not here's the link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/66n5n8319vkkvua/No More Mr. Nice Guy!.pdf


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah, it didn't work out too well did it? :/

Thanks for the link Jntrs - I'll download it when I get home from work 

It's so difficult not talking to someone that you really want to talk to, especially when they are initiating the contact!


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I haven't replied and three hours after she sent me another text saying *"Have I done something to upset you?"*..


Really? Is she really asking this? Being left hurts something fierce. She can't even begin to comprehend the pain you're going through.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Really? Is she really asking this? Being left hurts something fierce. She can't even begin to comprehend the pain you're going through.


I think she's referring to recently, as we spoke almost all day yesterday and got on pretty well, and even had a little flirt.

If anything that just made me realise all the more that I can't be in contact with her - I'll always want more from her.


----------



## angstire

If you flirt back with her, she's still getting an emotional bump from you. Also, she still knows she has you, heart and body. You need to work on you, for you. But, if she has any chance of coming back to you, she needs to realize that you are becoming better, fitter, more centered, more confident and that you don't need her. You don't need her, but she needs to see that you will move on without her. Wives, GF, SOs are really nice to haves, but they are wants, not needs.

Work on you. You don't need her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> If you flirt back with her, she's still getting an emotional bump from you. Also, she still knows she has you, heart and body. You need to work on you, for you. But, if she has any chance of coming back to you, she needs to realize that you are becoming better, fitter, more centered, more confident and that you don't need her. You don't need her, but she needs to see that you will move on without her. Wives, GF, SOs are really nice to haves, but they are wants, not needs.
> 
> Work on you. You don't need her.


Yeah, I did flirt back with her - and I'm 100% sure she knows she's got me right where she wants me. 

I just can't ride this emotional roller-coaster anymore. It's too draining.

You're right and she does need to realise that if she's ever going to come back - but even if she doesn't if I focus on me, I'll be alright anyway. I have weak moments in which I just want to break and tell her how much I miss her etc etc - but I also have moments of extreme determination to get through this for myself. It's a really weird mixed bag.

I still haven't responded, and she hasn't chased me any further yet. I wonder if she will try to make contact again, and if so, what she'll say to spark some kind of reaction from me.


----------



## angstire

It is draining and tough. Just let that stuff flow and don't be hard on yourself. It's a rollercoaster, but it does even out over time.

Try not to wonder about what she's going to do, how she'll react, etc. The more you think about her, the more it creates a feedback loop, reinforcing your thoughts staying on her. 

It's tough for humans to focus our minds on more than one thing, so find something else to think about. I'm not a huge fan of TV, but I watched a ton of 30 Rock when this first happened to me. Funny, no serious relationships and they don't call TV mindless for no reason. Workout, watch something funny in your sparetime, get outside. 

Try hard not think about her, what she'll do, etc. It's not easy and you won't always be successful, but try.

And don't worry about backslides, we all have those. However, I recommend journaling about this stuff. Get your feelings and thoughts out about what happened, what she did and how it made you feel, think, etc. Dissect what happened, resolve to do better, put it on a shelf and watch Wedding Crashers or Old School. 

This will get better. There are many men here that can attest to it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> It is draining and tough. Just let that stuff flow and don't be hard on yourself. It's a rollercoaster, but it does even out over time.
> 
> Try not to wonder about what she's going to do, how she'll react, etc. The more you think about her, the more it creates a feedback loop, reinforcing your thoughts staying on her.
> 
> It's tough for humans to focus our minds on more than one thing, so find something else to think about. I'm not a huge fan of TV, but I watched a ton of 30 Rock when this first happened to me. Funny, no serious relationships and they don't call TV mindless for no reason. Workout, watch something funny in your sparetime, get outside.
> 
> Try hard not think about her, what she'll do, etc. It's not easy and you won't always be successful, but try.
> 
> And don't worry about backslides, we all have those. However, I recommend journaling about this stuff. Get your feelings and thoughts out about what happened, what she did and how it made you feel, think, etc. Dissect what happened, resolve to do better, put it on a shelf and watch Wedding Crashers or Old School.
> 
> This will get better. There are many men here that can attest to it.


I'm really dreading seeing her this weekend, however I feel I may have to give her an ultimatum. If she wants me in her life, we need to try and work on this, otherwise I'm gone and going for good, because I can't do this any longer.

I've been trying to get out more and see friends, and have been PC gaming a lot, which whilst fun, is something we both used to do, so it does kind of remind me of her.

I have been journalling since the last day I saw her, which was two weeks ago today. It really helps, although I'm still really angry at her for reading it when I was out of the house. Huge invasion of my privacy.

My next relationship, whether with her or anyone else, won't go the same way as this one, that's for sure. I won't let it.


----------



## angstire

I'd skip the ultimatum. She started this, you're engaging by issuing an utlimatum. Work on you. If she wants to reconcile, she'll let you know, just like she let you know she wanted to try out being single.


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## Ceegee

angstire said:


> I'd skip the ultimatum. She started this, you're engaging by issuing an utlimatum. Work on you. If she wants to reconcile, she'll let you know, just like she let you know she wanted to try out being single.


Agreed.

The ultimatum is not in your best interest.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I'd skip the ultimatum. She started this, you're engaging by issuing an utlimatum. Work on you. If she wants to reconcile, she'll let you know, just like she let you know she wanted to try out being single.


Yeah makes sense I guess. I don't know what I'd do without this forum! :smthumbup:

I may shoot her a quick message on Friday just to confirm we're still okay for Saturday. I know she's expecting something to arrive in the mail as well, so if that arrives I'll inform her. Then after Saturday, I'll go completely no contact. It's going to be really difficult, but I know I'll pull through. I've had my share of hard times in life and I've always pulled through.

If she truly loves me like she says she does, it won't be the last I hear of her. If she doesn't, then I'm wasting time I could be using to find someone who does.


----------



## Syco

Hit the gym and work on yourself.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> If she truly loves me like she says she does, it won't be the last I hear of her. If she doesn't, then I'm wasting time I could be using to find someone who does.


Exactly


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## Jntrs

the outcome of the ultimatum is that you're expecting for her to say, yes lets work it out, but it wont happen, and that will be a low blow, so the others are right avoid it, and let her know that this is what she wanted and you giving it to her, and you need to get your head right, but keep it briefly, and dont show any anger


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## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> If she truly loves me like she says she does, it won't be the last I hear of her. If she doesn't, then I'm wasting time I could be using to find someone who does.


Work on you first.


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## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Work on you first.


I am working on me and it's going pretty well so far. My counselling is helping no end, as is my journalling.

I miss her and I long to be with her, but I'm having fun and learning to make myself happy all over again.

I find exercise helps as it takes my mind off things because I'm focused solely on the exercise. I plan to start doing more to be honest.


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## Syco

WantWifeBack said:


> I find exercise helps as it takes my mind off things because I'm focused solely on the exercise. I plan to start doing more to be honest.


Nice


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## GotLifeBack

Today I'm feeling very much like I want to give it my all and fight to get her back. I thought I'd given up, but apparently I haven't.

I wish there was some surefire way to win her heart back, I really do.

I'm seeing her tomorrow, so I guess I'll try to show her the man she fell in love with in the first place.


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## GotLifeBack

It's like all of the hope I've let go of has come flooding back today, and I'm not even sure why.

Is this normal?


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> It's like all of the hope I've let go of has come flooding back today, and I'm not even sure why.
> 
> Is this normal?


Of course it is. Part of the roller coaster.

Guess what, I've been separated (now divorced) for over a year and still get those feelings from time to time.

It's illogical as the woman I married no longer exists. 

It's not "her" you want but the memory of the "old her".

Separating the two makes it easier.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Today I'm feeling very much like I want to give it my all and fight to get her back. I thought I'd given up, but apparently I haven't..


Nothing wrong with giving it your all. I am going through the exact same thing right now. I gave it my all my over 4 months, and I have finally just given up. I can say my mind is finally at peace with her decision to leave...and it feels much better. Good luck my friend. There are many in our situation. We will get through this.


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## tulsy

WantWifeBack said:


> This Saturday we are sorting out our finances and going for coffee afterwards, so she can explain why it is that she can't get back together with me. *After this, I will be going in to complete no contact.*


The 180 never happened.



WantWifeBack said:


> I know words are cheap, but her actions since we split do suggest she still loves me. Even though we are supposed to be in no contact at the moment, she has text me every day. When we had separated but were still seeing each other for her to move her stuff out of the house and so on, we were affectionate and sometimes sexual. She is still attracted to me. I have seen the love in the way she has looked at me at times.
> 
> A week or so ago an old female friend (purely 100% platonic) who has just split with her boyfriend of 5 years invited me to go and stay with her for the weekend, so I can get away from this situation for a bit. I wrote this in my journal and one day when collecting her stuff my wife read the journal, she absolutely freaked out about it and I have never seen her so furious in our six years together. What would have caused a reaction such as that if not love? If she was done with me, she would have been indifferent, but clearly she felt threatened.
> 
> *Maybe I'm reading too much in to all this*, I don't know.


Ya, you are definitely reading too much into that. You only see what you want to see, which isn't reality. Even though she doesn't want to be with you, tells you this to your face, leaves you 4 months after you got married and is dating other men, you seem to think she still loves you and may want you back some day.

Do you want to appear as a pathetic, weak man who will put up with anything she dishes out? I swear to you, women do NOT find that attractive at all...in fact, it's a huge turn off, that is a fact.

Even though she doesn't want to be with you, she will still have a hard time with you being with any other woman. That is extremely common, and doesn't mean that she wants you back. You are definitely reading too much into that.



WantWifeBack said:


> Today I'm feeling very much like I want to give it my all and fight to get her back. I thought I'd given up, but apparently I haven't.
> 
> I wish there was some surefire way to win her heart back, I really do.
> 
> I'm seeing her tomorrow, so I guess I'll try to show her the man she fell in love with in the first place.


So, you are going to fight to get her back? Accept that she will date other men? Accept all the blame? Accept that it's all because you are jealous? You're now gonna show her the man she fell in love with? You are wasting you time, honestly.

You never actually pulled a 180, never had no-contact, and never really tried to detach, which is why you are still in the same boat. You were only hoping that she may miss you if you go no-contact, and hoping that this would make her suddenly want you back. The 180 is about preparing you for life without her, not about winning her back, which is all you ever wanted. Regardless, you are still spinning the same wheels, and you will get hurt all over again.

She likes that you are pining away for her, all while she gets to act like a teenager and do whatever she wants. She doesn't want to be your wife. 

You can't make someone love you. And really, is that what you are hoping for? That you can convince her to come back and stay with you? You know she doesn't want to be with you...do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?

You really gotta try life on your own, bro. You have to stand up and be a man, actually sever ties, and attempt to move on from her. 

Even if you 2 got back together again one day, wouldn't you want to be THAT guy, the strong, confident, attractive and capable man, who won't put up with B.S, and won't let people trample all over his feelings? Or do just want to skip all of that, take all the blame for anything that ever happened in the relationship, put up with her doing whatever she wants, for as long as she wants, just so you can be with her again?

Would that be good enough for you? It shouldn't be. You gotta grow up and apart from her. You can't be happily married to someone who doesn't want to be married to you. It just can't be.


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## GotLifeBack

Wow, way to not pull any punches tulsy 

You're right in everything you said, and logically I can see it, but I'm still so emotionally attached to her. I can't seem to sever that.



> You can't make someone love you. And really, is that what you are hoping for? That you can convince her to come back and stay with you? You know she doesn't want to be with you...do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?


I get this - I really do, and what I'm talking about doing is severing ties to her, moving on, and then if I still feel like I want to get back with her, I'll contact her. I can't convince her or change her feelings, only she can change herself, and she needs to change herself, because right now, me, or any guy that gets involved with her is doomed to the same fate as me right now.

She'll get that one day, and that'll probably also be the day she realises what she had.



> Even though she doesn't want to be with you, she will still have a hard time with you being with any other woman. That is extremely common, and doesn't mean that she wants you back. You are definitely reading too much into that.


I don't get this though - I mean, if she doesn't want to be with me and is completely done with me, why should she care? Surely she would be indifferent, not angry or hurt? Either way, she gave up the right to be concerned about what I do or don't do with other women the moment she walked out of the door.

It's still pretty early days, on Monday we will have been separated for four weeks. I need to get my emotions in check, they're lagging behind my brain too much.


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## tulsy

WantWifeBack said:


> Wow, way to not pull any punches tulsy


Ya, I'm extremely blunt, but I mean well. 



WantWifeBack said:


> You're right in everything you said, and logically I can see it, but I'm still so emotionally attached to her. I can't seem to sever that.


I've been there, man. Many of us have...no one said it was easy, but think of it like "making a decision, and sticking to your guns", since it's the right thing for you to do. 



WantWifeBack said:


> I get this - I really do, and what I'm talking about doing is severing ties to her, moving on, and then if I still feel like I want to get back with her, I'll contact her. I can't convince her or change her feelings, only she can change herself, *and she needs to change herself, because right now, me, or any guy that gets involved with her is doomed to the same fate as me right now.*


You can't sit there and think about it like that. You need to realize that she may NEVER get it! Believe me, I waited 16 years for my ex to get it, and it's been another 3.5 years...she still hasn't got it. It's something she won't ever get...it's me.

People don't change the way we want them to, and some people never get it. Just because you and I think and feel a certain way, doesn't mean someone else will ever think/feel that way. People waste their whole lives waiting for someone to "get it"... they never do.



WantWifeBack said:


> *She'll get that one day, and that'll probably also be the day she realises what she had*.


What you're actually doing is hoping she wakes up one morning, real soon, and suddenly has an epiphany, realizing, "Oh my god...what have I done? I had the best thing going with this guy, and I just threw it all away to act like a kid again. What have I done?! I have to let him know I made a mistake"...

Stop dreaming, bro. 



WantWifeBack said:


> I don't get this though - I mean, if she doesn't want to be with me and is completely done with me, why should she care? Surely she would be indifferent, not angry or hurt? Either way, she gave up the right to be concerned about what I do or don't do with other women the moment she walked out of the door.
> 
> It's still pretty early days, on Monday we will have been separated for four weeks. I need to get my emotions in check, they're lagging behind my brain too much.


Call it nostalgia, call it selfish, call it possessiveness...it's just something that happens sometimes. Just because you don't want to be with the person anymore doesn't mean you won't have a weird feeling about them being with someone else. It's like you never pictured them with that person, or they always just imagined you'd be there waiting for them to come around...whatever that is, it's pretty common after a break up.

You guys spent a long time together, late teens to mid-twenty's, and it was the first major relationship. Now that you guys are broken up, it's very unfamiliar for both of you, and that is not always the most enticing scenario. 

People naturally like familiarity, but you do change throughout life, and those changes push you in other directions, even though they may seem uninviting/strange/new/unfamiliar. She doesn't want you going on the same path with her.

She doesn't want to be with you as husband/wife, but you guys were together so long, you are kinda one of her oldest friends. It's hard for her to hear that you may have someone else lined up (even though you don't, but she read your journal and thought that), and she would rather you sit there and miss her so much because that would make her feel that someone in the world thinks she's so freaking awesome and hard to get over. It's a huge ego boost for her, which came crashing down when she read your journal (BTW, get locks on your doors dude...she shouldn't even be around your stuff).

Don't read anything else into it. Believe her when she says she doesn't want to be with you anymore, and shut that door for good. 

You NEED to focus on yourself, your health, and YOUR future now. We're pullin' for you, buddy. You got this in you, and you know you do.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

stop throwing away your recovery process to throw your self at her feetjust so she can continue to feel in charge. She hated your depression so stop being so weak.

She left you. Do not try to get her back. There is a stronger you and a person that will love that you out there. She wants an easy life and she will one day learn those do not exist. If you are a strong man you have a chance with her later, and if not you will be strong and attractive to lots of woman who are mature enough for marriage. Your W is not mature enough for marriage. She gave up on you way too easily. You wanting her makes her feel good so you going 180 makes her try to reek you back in. Stop allowing it!


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## angstire

Tulsy said it, so I won't rehash, but he's correct about waiting for her to wake up and get it. She most likely never will. Most people don't. I wanted this from my stbxw months ago; it's what I hoped for. 

If you're waiting for her to wake up and get it, you're not focused on you. When you focus on you, you won't care if she does or not. When you focus on you, she will likely look very unattractive to you.

Until you accept that you can live without her, you'll be stuck focusing on her.


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## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Tulsy said it, so I won't rehash, but he's correct about waiting for her to wake up and get it. She most likely never will. Most people don't. I wanted this from my stbxw months ago; it's what I hoped for.
> 
> If you're waiting for her to wake up and get it, you're not focused on you. When you focus on you, you won't care if she does or not. When you focus on you, she will likely look very unattractive to you.
> 
> Until you accept that you can live without her, you'll be stuck focusing on her.


How do I do that though? I've put her first in everything for the past six years - I need to re-learn how to put me first. I've been so focused on her it's like it's all I know.

I know she isn't going to wake up and smell the coffee, and _if_ she does ever realise her mistake, it will be a gradual thing, and even that is unlikely. I want to let it all go and begin to move on, I just don't know how.

With regards to locks, I've taken her key to the house back and I'll be changing the locks this weekend just in case she made a copy.


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## ne9907

> What you're actually doing is hoping she wakes up one morning, real soon, and suddenly has an epiphany, realizing, "Oh my god...what have I done? I had the best thing going with this guy, and I just threw it all away to act like a kid again. What have I done?! I have to let him know I made a mistake"...


Be honest to yourself Iwantwifeback, do you wish this because you really want her back or because you need to feel validate as a person??

At the beginning of my separation, and even now still, I feel like that. I want him to realized he was a fool for wanting to be single and letting me go but I don't want him back. These two conflicting thoughts make me feel guilty and make me sad.
But it will get better.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> How do I do that though? I've put her first in everything for the past six years - I need to re-learn how to put me first. I've been so focused on her it's like it's all I know.


You've answered your own question. You need to relearn how to be and that starts by focusing on you. I'm telling you from experience, it will get better. You won't notice it at first, but you will two months in. Focus on you. Do selfish things that involve your interests and your hobbies and your time and your money. Focus on you and you will be happy. And you will learn thru this process how to put you first.


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## GotLifeBack

So, an eventful weekend, where do I start?

Yesterday I met her to finalise our finances and get her removed from my account, that all went smoothly and we went for a coffee afterwards. We sat an talked and laughed with each other for an hour in Starbucks and it was really good, we got on like a house on fire, the way we used to. We parted on good terms.

A few hours after that she called me. We have a dog together and I've been looking in to re-homing him as I work too long hours to care for him myself, and she's unable to take him. I was going to take him to an animal shelter, however she had a family lined up. We arranged for her to come and collect the dog to take to meet this family today (Sunday).

She showed up to collect the dog, and within a few minutes of being in the same room, we were getting quite intimate. We didn't have actual intercourse, but we may as well have.

Anyway, she had to go as this family were expecting her. So we stopped, as she took the dog she said she'd be back with him in a couple of hours, and we could talk when she got back. Now, after a good day yesterday, and the obvious sexual attraction, I was feeling pretty hopeful. Two hours pass, and she doesn't come back. Three hours pass and she calls me, saying that she wouldn't be bringing the dog back as the new family were able to take him in immediately, I didn't even get to say goodbye. She also said that she wouldn't be coming back. Now, I wanted to have a talk as this weekend has left me very confused, so we talked on the phone.

I asked her how she felt seeing me for the first time in over two weeks yesterday, she said she felt happy.

I asked her how she felt being around me, she said confused.

I asked her how she felt after I left Starbucks yesterday, and she said she felt sad.

I suggested that we try salvage this marriage by dating once a week, and she said no. She told me that I can have no part of her life. Why the f*ck does she keep dragging me back in to it then?

Whilst this was crushing, and was like a miniature heartbreak in itself, I feel like I've finally lost that final shred of hope, and whilst it feels terrible right now, logically I know that's progress. I just hope I don't backslide.

It's been a pretty emotional weekend.


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## LongWalk

She fed and hugged the cur before dumping it with new owners. She treated you in similar fashion. Go dark on her. If she wants you, she will go to great lengths.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

You are dragging yourself back into it by talking to her. I know it's the hope you have. Stop asking her how she feels. Stop asking her anything. Ignore her for your own good.


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## Ceegee

LongWalk said:


> She fed and hugged the cur before dumping it with new owners. She treated you in similar fashion. Go dark on her. If she wants you, she will go to great lengths.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I asked her...

She said...

Words words words....

Enough!!!

Her actions tell you everything you need to know.


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## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> I asked her...
> 
> She said...
> 
> Words words words....
> 
> Enough!!!
> 
> Her actions tell you everything you need to know.


You're right Ceegee, words mean nothing.

Her actions are mixed though, on one hand, we had a really great time together, and the following day got pretty intimate, on the other, she's acting like a total b*tch,

I'm glad the hope is gone in a way, although I hate feeling like I've given up on our marriage - I guess I just can't do anything more now though. It's her loss at the end of the day, and she doesn't deserve me.



> She fed and hugged the cur before dumping it with new owners. She treated you in similar fashion. Go dark on her. If she wants you, she will go to great lengths.


I hadn't looked at it that way, but you're right. She's being so childish and selfish right now, and she's upset or hurt a lot of people. Her mother and step father want nothing to do with her at the moment.



> You are dragging yourself back into it by talking to her. I know it's the hope you have. Stop asking her how she feels. Stop asking her anything. Ignore her for your own good.


I can appreciate this, but it's so difficult when I'm still in love with her, and when I'm so attracted to her. She re-iterated the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" yesterday as well. I honestly think she doesn't know what love is now, surely you don't put someone you love through all of this?


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## PBear

Your question shouldn't be "why does she keep dragging me back into her life". It should be "why do I keep letting her drag me back into her life". 

She's going to do whatever she wants to do. She's proven that already. What you need to do is figure out YOUR needs and boundaries, and start enforcing them. If you can't do that, expect this limbo cycle to keep dragging in a LONG time. Possibly even after she starts dating other guys and is "confused" about who she wants to be with.

Oddly enough, standing up for yourself and showing some self respect is probably the best way to get her to start respecting you as well. 

C


----------



## GotLifeBack

PBear said:


> Your question shouldn't be "why does she keep dragging me back into her life". It should be "why do I keep letting her drag me back into her life".
> 
> She's going to do whatever she wants to do. She's proven that already. What you need to do is figure out YOUR needs and boundaries, and start enforcing them. If you can't do that, expect this limbo cycle to keep dragging in a LONG time. Possibly even after she starts dating other guys and is "confused" about who she wants to be with.
> 
> Oddly enough, standing up for yourself and showing some self respect is probably the best way to get her to start respecting you as well.
> 
> C


You're right, I shouldn't let her. It's difficult though. I've asked her today to stop contacting me unless it's regarding divorce/annulment. She said she would.

I wish there was a magic way you could stop loving someone.


----------



## PBear

WantWifeBack said:


> You're right, I shouldn't let her. It's difficult though. I've asked her today to stop contacting me unless it's regarding divorce/annulment. She said she would.
> 
> I wish there was a magic way you could stop loving someone.


Take ownership of your life, man! You don't "ask" her to leave you alone. You stop taking her calls. Let her leave a voicemail or email. And if it's something you need to deal with it, send her bad a one sentence answer (if possible) in an email. Stop letting her control YOUR situation. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

> Take ownership of your life, man! You don't "ask" her to leave you alone. You stop taking her calls. Let her leave a voicemail or email. And if it's something you need to deal with it, send her bad a one sentence answer (if possible) in an email. Stop letting her control YOUR situation.


You're right - I do need to stop letting her control my situation. As we're now in NC it's a little late though, but I doubt it will be the last I hear of her.

I'm going to start reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" tonight. Hopefully that will help put things in to perspective a little bit.

I've never been as attracted to any other woman in my life as I am her though.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I've never been as attracted to any other woman in my life as I am her though.


 I felt the same way for many months after my wife left me too. I think this is human nature at work of wanting what you can't have. You will probably always be physically attracted to her, but this feeling with fade with time. I had a HUGE libido spike after she left me too. Sucked because I wasn't getting any lol. If it helps, just think how emotionally UN-attractive she is.


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## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> I felt the same way for many months after my wife left me too. I think this is human nature at work of wanting what you can't have. You will probably always be physically attracted to her, but this feeling with fade with time. I had a HUGE libido spike after she left me too. Sucked because I wasn't getting any lol. If it helps, just think how emotionally UN-attractive she is.


Yup - my libido has gone through the roof too. And she's made herself even more physically attractive since we split, new haircut, had certain areas waxed (which she only used to do on special occasions previously), new clothes that drive me crazy.

She always has been a beautiful woman, just my type.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> You're right - I do need to stop letting her control my situation. As we're now in NC it's a little late though, but I doubt it will be the last I hear of her.
> 
> I'm going to start reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" tonight. Hopefully that will help put things in to perspective a little bit.
> 
> I've never been as attracted to any other woman in my life as I am her though.


How long have you had her on a pedestal?

Has she been there the whole time or did it happen gradually over the relationship. 

If you can pinpoint that moment you'll know when your marriage started going downhill.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Yup - my libido has gone through the roof too.* And she's made herself even more physically attractive since we split, new haircut, had certain areas waxed (which she only used to do on special occasions previously), new clothes* that drive me crazy.
> 
> She always has been a beautiful woman, just my type.


Wake up call!

She did that for OM, not you.

You're addicted to hopium, and your physical relationship with her. 

The way to break addictions/attachments is to go without for about 3-4 weeks. Which means complete, utter no contact (no excuses!). No 'hits'. Changing your thought process. Exercising. Remembering what you were like before you met her. Getting IC. 

You do realize that there are countless women out there that are "just your type"?

Read this article. It helped me in the early stages, when I was where you are:

Nine Steps To Avoid Neediness and Oneitis | The Blackdragon Blog


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> How long have you had her on a pedestal?


Pretty much right from the start of our relationship. I wasn't in a good place when we met, my counsellor believes I viewed her as my "saviour". I guess to an extent, that's true.

I have some codependency issues with her, I know this. I believe she has, or at least had them with me too. 

She keeps cycling herself back to Victim on the Drama Triangle. She alternates between Victim and Persecutor. I alternate between all three roles, but mostly Persecutor/Rescuer.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Wake up call!
> 
> She did that for OM, not you.
> 
> You're addicted to hopium, and your physical relationship with her.


Her reasons for doing it are irrelevant now. 

I've also had a haircut, got new clothes, new aftershave and so on, but in an effort to make me feel better about myself and more confident. I've also been surrounding myself with females, which is helping me realise that I am worth something to other women.


----------



## tulsy

WantWifeBack said:


> ...
> 
> I'm going to start reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" tonight.....





PHP:


http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I didn't actually get around to starting that yesterday, I was literally swamped by a couple of the women I've been talking to, I spent over two hours on the phone with one of them, and I'm really tired at work today.

Tonight, I will *definitely* start reading it.

So far I'm feeling pretty good about no contact with my wife, and I'm very nearly at the point where I've resigned myself to the fact that she isn't coming back. After the way she treated me at the weekend, my capacity to care about her feelings is hanging by a very fine thread.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, earlier I felt okay with no contact. Now I really want to message her . I'm not going to, but I guess this is the first of many times when I'll feel this way. It's such a hard adjustment, having always envisioned her in my future. 

I keep dreaming about her too, and every time, whether it's a good dream, in which we are together and happy, or whether it's a bad dream in which she is with someone else, I wake up in a cold sweat.

I had to go out on my lunch break today, and we both work in the same town and have break at the same time. I always worry that I'll bump in to her while I'm out and about.


----------



## Brokenman85

It is normal to feel like this. It's a rollercoaster ride. Resist temptation and don't message her. I also used to dream about my wife every night too. Just within the last couple of weeks I stopped dreaming about her every night. Still do most nights, but it is getting better. It's a slow and steady grind. There is no way around that. Lets get through this thing together man. We can do this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> It is normal to feel like this. It's a rollercoaster ride. Resist temptation and don't message her. I also used to dream about my wife every night too. Just within the last couple of weeks I stopped dreaming about her every night. Still do most nights, but it is getting better. It's a slow and steady grind. There is no way around that. Lets get through this thing together man. We can do this.


Yeah I see what you mean.

It's weird, I know that I could easily find someone else, and I'm quite popular with women, they are attracted to me, but none of them are her . 

Maybe it's something to do with trying to obtain the unobtainable? I don't know. Millions of men have been through this and got through it, so there's no reason why me, or you, shouldn't, so I know I'll get better from a logical point of view, but I just can't "see" it happening.

Some friends of mine have suggested I go play the field and sleep around a bit, but I'm just not wired that way, I'm not that guy. I think that would probably make me feel worse, because in all honesty I think I'd feel like I had cheated on her.

I fully expect her to move on before me (if she hasn't already) or at the very least, get physical with someone else before me. But I guess she emotionally detached a long time ago, and is further in to the healing process than I am. She did tell me a while back that she was "lying next to her man", but later she told me that was a lie and she only said it to try and get me to back off. All it did was infuriate me.

As for getting through this together - I'm all for that. People in our situation need all the support the can find.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I see what you mean.
> 
> It's weird, I know that I could easily find someone else, and I'm quite popular with women, they are attracted to me, but none of them are her .
> 
> Maybe it's something to do with trying to obtain the unobtainable? I don't know. Millions of men have been through this and got through it, so there's no reason why me, or you, shouldn't, so I know I'll get better from a logical point of view, but I just can't "see" it happening.



This is codependency. 

It has more to do with you than her.

Read about it. Understand it. 

Then you'll know how to break it.






WantWifeBack said:


> Some friends of mine have suggested I go play the field and sleep around a bit, but I'm just not wired that way, I'm not that guy. I think that would probably make me feel worse, because in all honesty I think I'd feel like I had cheated on her.



Your guy friends will always tell you this. It's how guys think.

Truth is, if you're not ready don't do it. It will make you feel worse and delay recovery.




WantWifeBack said:


> I fully expect her to move on before me (if she hasn't already) or at the very least, get physical with someone else before me. But I guess she emotionally detached a long time ago, and is further in to the healing process than I am. She did tell me a while back that she was "lying next to her man", but later she told me that was a lie and she only said it to try and get me to back off. All it did was infuriate me.



Truthfully? Who cares if/when she moves on?

Stop focusing on her and focus on you. 

Easier said than done? Sure.

But if we don't keep reminding you nobody will.

It's not a race. Rushing into something with someone new to try and show your X that you're just as desirable as she is will hurt you more than her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I do need to address my codependency issues. 

Shortly after my wife left she bought me a book (using my money -_-) called "Codependency No More". I was a little strapped for cash at the time so I returned it. In hindsight I probably should have kept it, but I'll read about it online and perhaps re-purchase it if I feel the need.

I'm definitely not ready to be emotionally or physically intimate with anyone else, and I know how much it would mess me up. I've never rebounded before and I don't plan to start now. I've seen how messy things can get when rebounds get involved.

I know I shouldn't care what she's doing, and there are genuinely times when I could care less. But sometimes I just can't stop obsessing over her. I think the obsessing over her is becoming less frequent though.


----------



## FC Dynamite

WWB,

I want to tell you a bit of a story. You make take something out of it, or u may not. I'll try to make it brief:

My wife left me 2 months ago. Like you I wanted her back (maybe a part of me still does). I made the rookie mistakes, I begged and pleaded intially. I started reading here and it helped alot. Helped me develop a strategy for me. Helped me to start moving on. Now I know you say you don't want to get intimate with chicks, and I understand completely as I don't either. However, here's the story.

This Saturday I went to visit my younger brother out of town. He's single and has his own 2 bedroom apt right downtown in a prime location. So my attitude going in was, I'm going to try and work my game as best as I can. It's been a LONG time since I tried to pick up a chick, so for me, it was a learning experience. We hit up some clubs and we're talking to some chicks and everything is going alot better than expected. I'm feeling pretty confident and I see two chicks that catch my eye. One is a brunette with a great body and I'm instantly attracted. Go up, start talking, things go well, and she asks for my number. Perfect. At this point it's getting late so I throw it out there "Hey, I'm taking off back to my brothers place, wanna come with me and have another beer"? She says yes!!! Now I'm kinda ****ting my pants. I'm trying to keep this brief so basically, we start making out, she bites my lip and I'm thinking WTF? Then she bites it harder and won't let go. Then she starts clawing my neck, biting my chest, the list goes on. This chick was insane, and I was a bit scared lol. Anyway, I didn't bang her, cause I didn't have protection, but we spent the night together. In the morning I went out and bought a case of neosporin to heal my scratches and bite marks. I felt guilty. Felt like I cheated. At this point your thinking, sure great story, but how is this relevant to me, to which I'll say this; It was an EXPERIENCE. Today I feel incredible about it. I picked up a chick, and she kicked the **** out of me. This is so far out of my daily routine, so far out of my comfort zone, but it's awesome.

So go out and have some fun. Get your ass kicked by some crazy chick with daddy issues.

This chick is still lighting up my phone asking to do it again, and the F'd up part is that I think I'm actually going to.


----------



## angstire

FC Dynamite said:


> This chick is still lighting up my phone asking to do it again, and the F'd up part is that I think I'm actually going to.


Great post, funny about daddy issues and go. Take condoms and go get your a$$ kicked by her. The best way to get over someone is to get on someone. You sound ready and like it won't damage your healing process, but aid it. Go. Now.


----------



## GotLifeBack

FC Dynamite said:


> WWB,
> 
> I want to tell you a bit of a story. You make take something out of it, or u may not. I'll try to make it brief:
> 
> My wife left me 2 months ago. Like you I wanted her back (maybe a part of me still does). I made the rookie mistakes, I begged and pleaded intially. I started reading here and it helped alot. Helped me develop a strategy for me. Helped me to start moving on. Now I know you say you don't want to get intimate with chicks, and I understand completely as I don't either. However, here's the story.
> 
> This Saturday I went to visit my younger brother out of town. He's single and has his own 2 bedroom apt right downtown in a prime location. So my attitude going in was, I'm going to try and work my game as best as I can. It's been a LONG time since I tried to pick up a chick, so for me, it was a learning experience. We hit up some clubs and we're talking to some chicks and everything is going alot better than expected. I'm feeling pretty confident and I see two chicks that catch my eye. One is a brunette with a great body and I'm instantly attracted. Go up, start talking, things go well, and she asks for my number. Perfect. At this point it's getting late so I throw it out there "Hey, I'm taking off back to my brothers place, wanna come with me and have another beer"? She says yes!!! Now I'm kinda ****ting my pants. I'm trying to keep this brief so basically, we start making out, she bites my lip and I'm thinking WTF? Then she bites it harder and won't let go. Then she starts clawing my neck, biting my chest, the list goes on. This chick was insane, and I was a bit scared lol. Anyway, I didn't bang her, cause I didn't have protection, but we spent the night together. In the morning I went out and bought a case of neosporin to heal my scratches and bite marks. I felt guilty. Felt like I cheated. At this point your thinking, sure great story, but how is this relevant to me, to which I'll say this; It was an EXPERIENCE. Today I feel incredible about it. I picked up a chick, and she kicked the **** out of me. This is so far out of my daily routine, so far out of my comfort zone, but it's awesome.
> 
> So go out and have some fun. Get your ass kicked by some crazy chick with daddy issues.
> 
> This chick is still lighting up my phone asking to do it again, and the F'd up part is that I think I'm actually going to.


Haha, well I'm actually going away this weekend and am planning to check out a few bars and clubs, although my intentions are entirely pure. But I guess we'll see how I feel once I get a few beers down. I'm also staying with a very attractive and newly single female friend - under better circumstances, I would so hit that, but I think we'd just end up messing each other up right now and she deserves better. We do talk like every single day lately and spent 2 hours on the phone last night.

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't have any trouble attracting women, so I don't need to do so to make myself feel better in that department. It's more a case of the one woman that I am insanely and intensely attracted to, I can't have.

Edit: Good for you by the way - If it makes you feel good then do it!


----------



## angstire

If you're insanely and intensely attracted to her, you still have lots of detaching to do. There are lots of other women out there and they've got the same, ah, assets that your ex does. 

But, since the emotional attachment is still there, you need to detach further. Try to think less about her and focus on your self and do activities that distract from her. It's a process, but detachment will happen.

Synth said, and I agree, when you detach, her attractiveness will diminish signficantly.


----------



## LongWalk

FC, hilarious. She sounds the girl to take home to meet mom and dad... Right away. Oneitis can become a terrible affliction, especially without a social network.

Statistically WAW don't return. Do something to completely change her image of you, huge promotion and raise, new beautiful woman on FB. But when you achieve those things and she puts out a feeler, you won't want her.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> If you're insanely and intensely attracted to her, you still have lots of detaching to do. There are lots of other women out there and they've got the same, ah, assets that your ex does.
> 
> But, since the emotional attachment is still there, you need to detach further. Try to think less about her and focus on your self and do activities that distract from her. It's a process, but detachment will happen.
> 
> Synth said, and I agree, when you detach, her attractiveness will diminish signficantly.


I'm sure her attractiveness will diminish, I'm counting on it in fact. I'm sure there are women that can compare to her on a physical level, and probably even exceed - I'm incapable of seeing it at the moment though.

The thing is, I know I can do better, I know I deserve better, and I know she doesn't love me, and likely never did, not truly - so why do I still want her? It makes no sense.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure her attractiveness will diminish, I'm counting on it in fact. I'm sure there are women that can compare to her on a physical level, and probably even exceed - I'm incapable of seeing it at the moment though.
> 
> The thing is, I know I can do better, I know I deserve better, and I know she doesn't love me, and likely never did, not truly - so *why do I still want her? It makes no sense.*


You brainwashed yourself.

Years of building her up in your own mind. 

It's what we codependents do.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> The thing is, I know I can do better, I know I deserve better, and I know she doesn't love me, and likely never did, not truly - so why do I still want her? It makes no sense.


You're detaching. Your mind can know it rationally, but your heart is still emotionally attached to her. Accept that and that it's a process. Don't beat yourself up over slow progress. Accept that it will take a while and work on you. Work on detaching. It will come.

I know what you're talking about. I was there.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> Years of building her up in your own mind.


This.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> The thing is, I know I can do better, I know I deserve better, and I know she doesn't love me, and likely never did, not truly - so why do I still want her? *It makes no sense*.


It makes sense to me. You married this woman, so you love her very much. Apparently she didn't love you the same, but you figured she would because she married you too. Your love is blinding you right now and that will fade with time. Also, you don't want her back. You want the _idea_ of her back. That isn't going to happen. What is done is done. Even if she came back things wouldn't be the same. It's a sad reality us betrayed live in.


----------



## southernsurf

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure her attractiveness will diminish, I'm counting on it in fact. I'm sure there are women that can compare to her on a physical level, and probably even exceed - I'm incapable of seeing it at the moment though.
> 
> The thing is, I know I can do better, I know I deserve better, and I know she doesn't love me, and likely never did, not truly - so why do I still want her? It makes no sense.


I know this is a hard thing to accept but you haven't even tried to separate from her or go true NC. You've been in her hip pocket and at her call the whole time. Now the best advice for you - in addition to DON'T CALL HER EVER and treat her bad like she did you - is to go sit under a tree all alone, and try to figure out why on earth you would want this woman back. I sure would forget her name and never talk to her again. And don't get up until you convince yourself that you have wasted your time thinking about her. Move on, go out, have some fun, life is too short for this.


----------



## MSC71

So if you met a new woman who treated you exactly like your ex did, would you keep seeing them? Probably not. Divorce and being alone is scary. To the point where settling for a half ass marriage seems better at first. Feeling the need to contact her is normal. That will fade. And how you act will determine how fast that fades. Be strong. ...:beer:


----------



## FC Dynamite

angstire said:


> If you're insanely and intensely attracted to her, you still have lots of detaching to do. There are lots of other women out there and they've got the same, ah, assets that your ex does.
> 
> But, since the emotional attachment is still there, you need to detach further. Try to think less about her and focus on your self and do activities that distract from her. It's a process, but detachment will happen.
> 
> Synth said, and I agree, when you detach, her attractiveness will diminish signficantly.


This man speaks the truth. I've been where your at. She's perfect, she's the only one for you, you could never love another. The truth is, your afraid to lose her, cause she's yours, and your afraid to be alone.

If you really think about it, what makes her so great? How is she so perfect? She left you after just 4 months previously devoting her love and loyalty to you. If you ask me, she isn't all that great.

You and I are similar guys. I'm only 29, still a young guy. I have self-esteem and anxiety issues too. Answer this: When your wife went out with friends, how well did you sleep? Was your anxiety level so high that you couldn't fall asleep? Were you up looking out the window till she finally came home? Would you ask probing question to her regarding who she was with, where she was at, if guys ever hit on her? I did all these things.

Now that I have tried to detach I really don't think of her that much or what she's doing. I still love her, but I'm not in love with her anymore. I can't stomach being "in love" with someone who would just walk out on me. So now, everything I do is for myself or my kids.

I think your doing a good job considering the position your in, but you need to focus more on detachment and less on her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

FC Dynamite said:


> You and I are similar guys. I'm only 29, still a young guy. I have self-esteem and anxiety issues too. Answer this: When your wife went out with friends, how well did you sleep? Was your anxiety level so high that you couldn't fall asleep? Were you up looking out the window till she finally came home? Would you ask probing question to her regarding who she was with, where she was at, if guys ever hit on her? I did all these things.


This is pretty much spot on. I used to be so terrified of losing her because I genuinely believed that *any* guy she met while out would be twice the man I am. I know now that isn't the case, but maybe because I believed that, it became so in her mind also.



> So if you met a new woman who treated you exactly like your ex did, would you keep seeing them? Probably not.


No probably not, I want and *deserve* better. I've already resigned myself to the fact that if my wife tried to walk back in to my life, as things stand right now, I'd turn her away. If she could make some changes, and finally go get the IC she needs, then maybe, just maybe.



> It makes sense to me. You married this woman, so you love her very much. Apparently she didn't love you the same, but you figured she would because she married you too. Your love is blinding you right now and that will fade with time. Also, you don't want her back. You want the idea of her back. That isn't going to happen. What is done is done. Even if she came back things wouldn't be the same. It's a sad reality us betrayed live in.


Yeah - I do love this woman. I never actually believed in the idea of marriage until I met her. In a way I feel cheated, it's like she handed me everything I wanted on a silver platter, just to yank it all away so shortly afterwards. I do want the idea of her back, but the truth is, she's changed a lot, and I think it may have been you that said it Brokenman, but the woman I married no longer exists.



> Years of building her up in your own mind.


Yeah, to me she was perfect. I thought I'd been in love before I met this woman, but the truth is I really hadn't. She was, and still is my first love, but there are points now where I feel like she won't be my last.



> You're detaching. Your mind can know it rationally, but your heart is still emotionally attached to her. Accept that and that it's a process. Don't beat yourself up over slow progress. Accept that it will take a while and work on you. Work on detaching. It will come.
> 
> I know what you're talking about. I was there.


It's a sh*tty place to be too. I'm pleased that I am detaching, but in a way it also saddens me. I never wanted to, or never thought I'd even be capable of detaching from this woman, and on some weird psychological level, that makes me feel worthless, even though I know it's the right thing to do for me and that I deserve so much more.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So day two of full no contact is nearly over. I do really want to talk to her, but it hasn't been quite as difficult as I thought it would. It's kind of a relief to have removed myself from the situation too. Talking to her was so painful.

Luckily for me, she's deactivated her facebook profile, so even if I wanted to I couldn't check up on her on there.

If I can make it to Friday, I'll be able to keep busy enough over the weekend to keep my mind off contacting her. Although a purely platonic visit, I am looking forward to spending some quality time with a physically attractive female, especially out in bars. If you're perceived to be with an attractive lady, other women find you desirable :smthumbup:


----------



## FC Dynamite

WantWifeBack said:


> So day two of full no contact is nearly over. I do really want to talk to her, but it hasn't been quite as difficult as I thought it would. It's kind of a relief to have removed myself from the situation too. Talking to her was so painful.
> 
> Luckily for me, she's deactivated her facebook profile, so even if I wanted to I couldn't check up on her on there.
> 
> If I can make it to Friday, I'll be able to keep busy enough over the weekend to keep my mind off contacting her. Although a purely platonic visit, I am looking forward to spending some quality time with a physically attractive female, especially out in bars. If you're perceived to be with an attractive lady, other women find you desirable :smthumbup:


Little steps man. Nice to see your handling it well. When my wife left me, I asked her to get a new cell phone account (so that I couldn't check her texts) and to change her passwords to her Facebook and E-mail. I just didn't want to snoop on her, and I thought at the time it would make me appear strong and give her a sense I was letting control go. It actually helped me alot. It's all part of the detachment process, just letting go.

Do yourself a favour this weekend and just work a little game into your evening festivities. Approach a few chicks, maybe buy them a drink, exchange some numbers etc. Just have fun with it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

FC Dynamite said:


> Little steps man. Nice to see your handling it well. When my wife left me, I asked her to get a new cell phone account (so that I couldn't check her texts) and to change her passwords to her Facebook and E-mail. I just didn't want to snoop on her, and I thought at the time it would make me appear strong and give her a sense I was letting control go. It actually helped me alot. It's all part of the detachment process, just letting go.
> 
> Do yourself a favour this weekend and just work a little game into your evening festivities. Approach a few chicks, maybe buy them a drink, exchange some numbers etc. Just have fun with it.


I'm not sure I'm handling it quite as well as I thought I was - I saw a TV show earlier about weddings, and it really crushed me. I completely lost it, broke down in to tears and ended up contacting her.

I really just wish I could forget she even exists. I wish I could un-feel the things that I have felt. It's so difficult knowing she's still out there.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not sure I'm handling it quite as well as I thought I was - I saw a TV show earlier about weddings, and it really crushed me. I completely lost it, broke down in to tears and ended up contacting her.
> 
> I really just wish I could forget she even exists. I wish I could un-feel the things that I have felt. It's so difficult knowing she's still out there.


How's the IC going?


----------



## southernsurf

The person you are thinking about and remembering is not not your real wife, its the person you wish she could be not the real her. Think about the person that cheated and lied to you. Don't talk to that person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I really just wish I could forget she even exists. I wish I could un-feel the things that I have felt. It's so difficult knowing she's still out there.


You have to feel it to heal it. 

Feel the pain all the way through so next time you get the urge to call her you remember the pain she caused you. 

She, as you remember her, doesn't exist and she's not out there. 

You are calling her body snatcher. 

You need to understand that the more you follow her around like a puppy dog the more she loses respect for you.


----------



## Jntrs

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not sure I'm handling it quite as well as I thought I was - I saw a TV show earlier about weddings, and it really crushed me. I completely lost it, broke down in to tears and ended up contacting her.
> 
> I really just wish I could forget she even exists. I wish I could un-feel the things that I have felt. It's so difficult knowing she's still out there.


when shows like that come up you need to change the channel and watch something that doesnt remind you of anything of her at all, or else you will never be able to detach


watch "swingers" this will cheer you up a bit

Swingers (1996) - IMDb


----------



## terrence4159

wantwifeback im a little late to this party, but you are me 9 yrs ago when my wife cheated on me (we had a 6month old son at the time) i was so so so like you so wanting her back holding on to anything she said for hope. 3 months i got dragged along.

one morning i woke up said enough (she still sleeping with the om, now her husband) called my lawyer got the D rolling and went to the first tattoo shop i saw and got a tattoo of a knife sticking out of my back with my soon to be ex wife's name in the handle (yes actual photo by my name)

we were done no more stringing along. now i dont recommend doing the tattoo but it took me 3 months to get to that point you are not even at the month mark yet. 3 years before i dated again then remarried now been with new wife 6 years have my son 5 nights a week and NEVER BEEN HAPPIER!!

hang in there you WILL be fine.


----------



## Conrad

terrence4159 said:


> wantwifeback im a little late to this party, but you are me 9 yrs ago when my wife cheated on me (we had a 6month old son at the time) i was so so so like you so wanting her back holding on to anything she said for hope. 3 months i got dragged along.
> 
> one morning i woke up said enough (she still sleeping with the om, now her husband) called my lawyer got the D rolling and went to the first tattoo shop i saw and got a tattoo of a knife sticking out of my back with my soon to be ex wife's name in the handle (yes actual photo by my name)
> 
> we were done no more stringing along. now i dont recommend doing the tattoo but it took me 3 months to get to that point you are not even at the month mark yet. 3 years before i dated again then remarried now been with new wife 6 years have my son 5 nights a week and NEVER BEEN HAPPIER!!
> 
> hang in there you WILL be fine.


Still have the tattoo?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> How's the IC going?


It's going well thanks - Although I feel a little as though I'm figuring everything out myself, and verbalising it with my counsellor just cements it in my mind kind of, but talking about it with an impartial party definitely helps.



> The person you are thinking about and remembering is not not your real wife, its the person you wish she could be not the real her. Think about the person that cheated and lied to you. Don't talk to that person.


I realise this from a logical perspective, but emotionally it's tough to see - emotionally I feel like this isn't the real her, but I'm probably wrong. I don't know if she did or didn't cheat, and that doesn't really matter to me at the moment, I don't think she could hurt me any more than she already has.



> Feel the pain all the way through so next time you get the urge to call her you remember the pain she caused you.


This is good advice, and I can put it in to practice until I'm overwhelmed by emotion. I still love this woman, or at least the memory of her. This might sound stupid but sometimes I think it would be easier if she were dead, knowing that she's still out there is emotionally crippling. Knowing that she chose to leave me rather than was forced to, is somehow worse for me.



> when shows like that come up you need to change the channel and watch something that doesnt remind you of anything of her at all, or else you will never be able to detach


Normally I don't even watch TV - but last night I was at my sisters house to meet her housemate. It would have been rude to flip the channel or leave.



> one morning i woke up said enough (she still sleeping with the om, now her husband) called my lawyer got the D rolling and went to the first tattoo shop i saw and got a tattoo of a knife sticking out of my back with my soon to be ex wife's name in the handle (yes actual photo by my name)


Haha, this reminded me - I'm not sure if I put this in my original post but a month before she left me we both got the date of our wedding tattooed on us. I like to get tattoo's to symbolise major life events, whether good or bad.


----------



## FC Dynamite

It's funny how you mention it would be easier if she died because I have a particular memory from my early teens that stands out.

My uncle's wife had left him, cheated, and went to be with the other man. My uncle was completely destroyed, as most of us are in these situations. I remember being around my grandmother and some of my aunts who were talking about the situation and remember my grandmother saying "It would be easier if she was dead". She wasn't wishing for her to die (although maybe deep down she was), but she was saying that when you lose someone to death, it is final. It's tragic, but you don't have to see them on a daily basis. You don't have to deal with the betrayal. You need to grieve their loss and that's it.

So your feelings are very natural and in many ways true.


----------



## angstire

Divorce is like death, except the other person goes on living, developing relationships, making mistakes, buying new houses, getting a new job, etc., etc.

Grieving the death is final, because, well, death is final.

We can grieve the relationship, but the other person lives on and reminds us of what was lost. I think the trick is to get to the point where them continuing on with their lives, triggers our grief, less and less. Time helps with this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

FC Dynamite said:


> It's funny how you mention it would be easier if she died because I have a particular memory from my early teens that stands out.
> 
> My uncle's wife had left him, cheated, and went to be with the other man. My uncle was completely destroyed, as most of us are in these situations. I remember being around my grandmother and some of my aunts who were talking about the situation and remember my grandmother saying "It would be easier if she was dead". She wasn't wishing for her to die (although maybe deep down she was), but she was saying that when you lose someone to death, it is final. It's tragic, but you don't have to see them on a daily basis. You don't have to deal with the betrayal. You need to grieve their loss and that's it.
> 
> So your feelings are very natural and in many ways true.





> Divorce is like death, except the other person goes on living, developing relationships, making mistakes, buying new houses, getting a new job, etc., etc.
> 
> Grieving the death is final, because, well, death is final.
> 
> We can grieve the relationship, but the other person lives on and reminds us of what was lost. I think the trick is to get to the point where them continuing on with their lives, triggers our grief, less and less. Time helps with this.


These pretty much sum the way I feel up. Knowing what I've lost, and knowing that someone else will get to be with her/already is with her is absolutely gut wrenching. 

When I contacted her last night, I told her I'd never forget how I felt on our wedding day, and she told me she'd never forget me. Then I told her that I wished I could forget her, and that I wish I didn't know she existed. Although she has changed and she is no longer the woman I love, that person resides within her somewhere, unless it was all fake - putting up a front for six years would be too exhausting. 

I need to try and let go of the memory of her, so perhaps I'll start viewing it as if that woman I loved is dead. The problem here is that would be a lie, she's not dead, she's just gone. Who knows how long for, maybe a few months, maybe forever.

There can be no finality in a break up, because as long as the other person goes on living, nothing in their life is certain, just as nothing in yours is. She seems to have a sense of finality in the whole situation, and as crushing as that is, I also envy that.


----------



## angstire

A-Don't talk to her about your relationship, you will hurt yourself and give her emotional support and emotional ammo against you.

B-She is portraying finality. Not that it will impact you, help you, etc., but she will have many hours in the coming decades of doubt, remorse or just uncofortable feelings that she can't ID based on this breakup. She will likely never let you know she feels these things, but she will on some level.

Focus on you. This will impact her, but that won't help you heal.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> A-Don't talk to her about your relationship, you will hurt yourself and give her emotional support and emotional ammo against you.
> 
> B-She is portraying finality. Not that it will impact you, help you, etc., but she will have many hours in the coming decades of doubt, remorse or just uncofortable feelings that she can't ID based on this breakup. She will likely never let you know she feels these things, but she will on some level.
> 
> Focus on you. This will impact her, but that won't help you heal.


Perhaps she is portraying finality - she always was so stubborn . I'm sure she has tough times just as I do, and I know that the next guy she is with will be harshly compared to me in every way, just as the next woman I am with will be compared to her if I don't take the time to fully heal. The difference is, I think she'll get in to a relationship before she's ready, to fill the void (no pun intended).

She rebounded 3 years ago when we split up, and afterwards she realised she wanted to be with me. I don't know if it was guilt or disappointment with Mr. Rebound. She isn't emotionally mature yet to be honest. I forgave her for her rebound, although at times I did struggle with it a little, and I did bring it up a couple of times in fights, which I shouldn't have. I felt so betrayed though.

Even if she doesn't rebound this time, I just don't think I can trust her not to break my heart again.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> to fill the void (no pun intended).


*smirk*

All good stuff to discuss in IC, but my takes:

1. You will compare her and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What better way to judge other women than by relationships you've already been in. Good and bad outcomes. Try not to go looking for the opposite or a replacement for her, the replacement in particular is where you could get in trouble.

2. She may not compare him to you harshly at all. She may talk about what a d!ck you are and how he's so much better, blah, blah, blah. Either way, you can't control it, so let it go.

3. Work on your reactions to her rebound. Not forgiving her is ok, but then don't take her back. If you try to forgive and make an honest run at it, good for you and your relationship. But bringing it up in fights isn't cool. The fight should be about what it's about, not all the stuff that you both are keeping on your tally sheets. This is hard to do, but IC can help with conflict resolution skills with others in your life (SO, work, etc.).

You really need to work on you and think HARD about if you can trust her. It doesn't sound like you can, so if she comes back and you agree to take her back, you'll be in the same spot of breaking up in a year or less. You need to work on being who you want to be, detaching from her and figuring out what you want in a relationship. If she comes back, she'll likely not look like a very good SO, if you've done the above.

This is where talking about during IC your bad tendencies, why the relationship wasn't what you wanted and what you do want, will really help you prepare for the next relationship.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Even if she doesn't rebound this time, I just don't think I can trust her not to break my heart again.


You can't. Your wife seems to display some of the same traits as mine. My stbxw is extremely emotionally immature. I looked past it all these years and it finally came back to bite me. These type of women typically don't change. They will always be chasing butterflies and greener grass without realizing that isn't sustainable with anyone. You are better off. I'm telling you man...it will get better. I promise. The last few weeks I have started to turn a corner and you will be there too soon. It took me 4 months, so buckle up for the ride. You will be a better person from this. You are learning a lot about life and relationships. Your wife isn't learning anything. You will get the last laugh.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> *smirk*
> 
> All good stuff to discuss in IC, but my takes:
> 
> 1. You will compare her and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What better way to judge other women than by relationships you've already been in. Good and bad outcomes. Try not to go looking for the opposite or a replacement for her, the replacement in particular is where you could get in trouble.
> 
> 2. She may not compare him to you harshly at all. She may talk about what a d!ck you are and how he's so much better, blah, blah, blah. Either way, you can't control it, so let it go.
> 
> 3. Work on your reactions to her rebound. Not forgiving her is ok, but then don't take her back. If you try to forgive and make an honest run at it, good for you and your relationship. But bringing it up in fights isn't cool. The fight should be about what it's about, not all the stuff that you both are keeping on your tally sheets. This is hard to do, but IC can help with conflict resolution skills with others in your life (SO, work, etc.).
> 
> You really need to work on you and think HARD about if you can trust her. It doesn't sound like you can, so if she comes back and you agree to take her back, you'll be in the same spot of breaking up in a year or less. You need to work on being who you want to be, detaching from her and figuring out what you want in a relationship. If she comes back, she'll likely not look like a very good SO, if you've done the above.
> 
> This is where talking about during IC your bad tendencies, why the relationship wasn't what you wanted and what you do want, will really help you prepare for the next relationship.


I wouldn't even know how she could earn my trust again, I guess last time it just kind of happened over time. But this time feels somehow different for me, I'm just not going to make myself vulnerable to this again.

I know it's not cool to drag the past up in fights, and it very rarely happened, but I always felt bad when it did. I know she felt guilty about it and it was kind of an easy hurt button. I regret it, but it was difficult to let go of, especially as the guy was sniffing around her before she left.



> You can't. Your wife seems to display some of the same traits as mine. My stbxw is extremely emotionally immature. I looked past it all these years and it finally came back to bite me. These type of women typically don't change. They will always be chasing butterflies and greener grass without realizing that isn't sustainable with anyone. You are better off. I'm telling you man...it will get better. I promise. The last few weeks I have started to turn a corner and you will be there too soon. It took me 4 months, so buckle up for the ride. You will be a better person from this. You are learning a lot about life and relationships. Your wife isn't learning anything. You will get the last laugh.


My STBXW is very emotionally immature, very selfish and very spoiled. She also seems to live in her own little ideological world. I'm not sure what it'll take to make her see that life isn't a fairy tale but I don't think she'll grow up until it does. She has a lot of childhood issues with her parents, and I think that may have something to do with the way she is.

She isn't learning anything no, she told me last Saturday that she's been keeping too busy to mourn the death of our marriage, and that she's been drinking a lot. She doesn't earn much, and when she can't afford to keep busy or go out drinking, it's going to hit her like a freight train.

I kind of want to be a fly on the wall when that happens, as cruel as that may be.


----------



## bandit.45

WantWifeBack said:


> I wouldn't even know how she could earn my trust again, I guess last time it just kind of happened over time. But this time feels somehow different for me, I'm just not going to make myself vulnerable to this again.
> 
> I know it's not cool to drag the past up in fights, and it very rarely happened, but I always felt bad when it did. I know she felt guilty about it and it was kind of an easy hurt button. I regret it, but it was difficult to let go of, especially as the guy was sniffing around her before she left.
> 
> 
> 
> My STBXW is very emotionally immature, very selfish and vey spoiled. She also seems to live in her own little ideological world. I'm not sure what it'll take to make her see that life isn't a fairy tale but I don't think she'll grow up until it does. She has a lot of childhood issues with her parents, and I think that may have something to do with the way she is.
> 
> She isn't learning anything no, she told me last Saturday that she's been keeping too busy to mourn the death of our marriage, and that she's been drinking a lot. She doesn't earn much, and when she can't afford to keep busy or go out drinking, it's going to hit her like a freight train.
> 
> I kind of want to be a fly on the wall when that happens, as cruel as that may be.



Why not try dating a woman who is emotionally mature? Might be refreshing. Just a suggestion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

She is using you absorb her insecurities. All this talking about her fickleness. She's baiting you. The admissions that she is boozing to avoid reality are a call for you express concern. Don't talk to her anymore.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## angstire

:iagree:


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> She is using you absorb her insecurities. All this talking about her fickleness. She's baiting you. The admissions that she is boozing to avoid reality are a call for you express concern. Don't talk to her anymore.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


You're right - she is. She's playing victim in an attempt to get me to play rescuer, so she can make the shift to persecutor. I didn't rise to the bait at the time, I just said "Oh cool, I've only had a few beers lately."

I've managed to plow through another 5 chapters of NMMNG. Such an awesome book. It's quite inspiring.


----------



## Brokenman85

How are doing today WWB? Any plans for the weekend? Try to make yourself get out and do something. I know it's hard. You have to make yourself at first. I'm supposed to be meeting a woman tonight. We'll see how that goes


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> How are doing today WWB? Any plans for the weekend? Try to make yourself get out and do something. I know it's hard. You have to make yourself at first. I'm supposed to be meeting a woman tonight. We'll see how that goes


Hey BM85 - How did it go?

I traveled halfway across the county to stay with a female friend who'd invited me. We spent the weekend just chilling, drinking, and she showed me her................. city. I actually had a really good weekend and haven't laughed like that in years.

The last time I saw her we were good friends in high school, ten years ago. When I met up with her it was literally like I'd seen her yesterday, except that she's become a very beautiful woman. We laughed so much, but unfortunately I am entirely useless at reading women so I couldn't tell if she had any interest in me beyond having a laugh. Even if she did, I'm still nowhere near that place where I can become romantically interested in anyone.

It was nice to spend some time in female company though, and I chatted with a few random women in bars which was good practice


----------



## alte Dame

I know you still love your W, but you love a girl, not a woman. She isn't really marriage material, in my opinion. She leaves you when you suffer depression. She keeps you on a string, always pulling on it just enough to not let you detach. It's all for her.

A marriage is supposed to be in sickness and in health, for better or worse. Your W doesn't get any of that and is too immature and self-absorbed to treat you with the empathy that a spouse who is truly loved deserves.

I don't believe at all that she is the prize that you think she is. I know that your heart says that she is, but your heart is deceiving you. She hasn't treated you with love, not real, adult, selfless love. You should want that type of love. That's marriage material.


----------



## Ceegee

alte Dame said:


> I know you still love your W, but you love a girl, not a woman. She isn't really marriage material, in my opinion. She leaves you when you suffer depression. She keeps you on a string, always pulling on it just enough to not let you detach. It's all for her.
> 
> A marriage is supposed to be in sickness and in health, for better or worse. Your W doesn't get any of that and is too immature and self-absorbed to treat you with the empathy that a spouse who is truly loved deserves.
> 
> I don't believe at all that she is the prize that you think she is. I know that your heart says that she is, but your heart is deceiving you. She hasn't treated you with love, not real, adult, selfless love. You should want that type of love. That's marriage material.


Well said.


----------



## GotLifeBack

alte Dame said:


> I know you still love your W, but you love a girl, not a woman. She isn't really marriage material, in my opinion. She leaves you when you suffer depression. She keeps you on a string, always pulling on it just enough to not let you detach. It's all for her.
> 
> A marriage is supposed to be in sickness and in health, for better or worse. Your W doesn't get any of that and is too immature and self-absorbed to treat you with the empathy that a spouse who is truly loved deserves.
> 
> I don't believe at all that she is the prize that you think she is. I know that your heart says that she is, but your heart is deceiving you. She hasn't treated you with love, not real, adult, selfless love. You should want that type of love. That's marriage material.


Yeah, very well said. I know from a logical perspective that she isn't emotionally mature enough to understand what real love is. 

The love you described, however is the way that I love her - which is why I feel the way I do despite everything.

Have been without contact since last Thursday now, which is the longest I haven't spoken to her for in the past 6 years. Keeping busy at the weekend was a huge help though.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Hey BM85 - How did it go?
> 
> The last time I saw her we were good friends in high school, ten years ago. When I met up with her it was literally like I'd seen her yesterday, except that she's become a very beautiful woman. We laughed so much, but unfortunately I am entirely useless at reading women so I couldn't tell if she had any interest in me beyond having a laugh. Even if she did, I'm still nowhere near that place where I can become romantically interested in anyone.


So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:

-She laughed at everything I said

-At times I noticed her playing with her hair

-At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.

-The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.

-When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.

-When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.

Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.

But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.

Any thoughts?


----------



## tom67

WantWifeBack said:


> So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:
> 
> -She laughed at everything I said
> 
> -At times I noticed her playing with her hair
> 
> -At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.
> 
> -The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.
> 
> -When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.
> 
> -When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.
> 
> Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Just go for it!


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:
> 
> -She laughed at everything I said
> 
> -At times I noticed her playing with her hair
> 
> -At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.
> 
> -The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.
> 
> -When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.
> 
> -When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.
> 
> Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I would let her know you need to have some physical contact with a female during one of your chats. I bet she will take the bait. You have been talking to her a lot so she knows how you are doing and knows you are not ready for a new relationship. Sounds very much like she is interested in the same but neither of you knows exactly how to approach.
Much like the playful bumps and sitting closely on the couch, just be playful about the topic and after a few ****tails you both will be off in self esteem building class together . Just be ready man, it will happen fast and when it does don't hold back.


----------



## GotLifeBack

tom67 said:


> Just go for it!


Maybe in the future... I'll remain friends with her, see how things pan out. I'm not ready yet, and neither is she having just come out of a five year relationship herself. 



> I would let her know you need to have some physical contact with a female during one of your chats. I bet she will take the bait. You have been talking to her a lot so she knows how you are doing and knows you are not ready for a new relationship. Sounds very much like she is interested in the same but neither of you knows exactly how to approach.
> Much like the playful bumps and sitting closely on the couch, just be playful about the topic and after a few ****tails you both will be off in self esteem building class together . Just be ready man, it will happen fast and when it does don't hold back.


She actually noted how frustrated I was and commented on it, I'm not sure if this was just a general comment or was intended to steer the conversation in that direction.

I was taking some photographs of her city too and she was quite happy to be in one of them. She also took a couple of pictures of us together to send to a mutual friend.


----------



## FC Dynamite

WantWifeBack said:


> So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:
> 
> -She laughed at everything I said
> 
> -At times I noticed her playing with her hair
> 
> -At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.
> 
> -The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.
> 
> -When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.
> 
> -When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.
> 
> Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.
> 
> Any thoughts?


We are going through a lot of the same things right now man. Both of our wives left us. Both of us want/wanted desperately to get them back.

Now we are getting some attention from girls and it's stroking our self-confidence, which I think is an extremely good thing. I too feel that it's way too soon for a relationship, but I have been physical with some girls, one in particular which I have explained before. I catch myself thinking about her often, and wondering what a relationship would be like with her. I'm thinking about cooling it off with her and just taking some more time and maybe revisit it in 6months to a 1year or so from now.

Anyway, I think it's great that you had an awesome weekend. My personal opinion is, if your having fun, don't feel guilty about it. She left the marriage not you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> We are going through a lot of the same things right now man. Both of our wives left us. Both of us want/wanted desperately to get them back.
> 
> Now we are getting some attention from girls and it's stroking our self-confidence, which I think is an extremely good thing. I too feel that it's way too soon for a relationship, but I have been physical with some girls, one in particular which I have explained before. I catch myself thinking about her often, and wondering what a relationship would be like with her. I'm thinking about cooling it off with her and just taking some more time and maybe revisit it in 6months to a 1year or so from now.
> 
> Anyway, I think it's great that you had an awesome weekend. My personal opinion is, if your having fun, don't feel guilty about it. She left the marriage not you.


I'm not feeling guilty about it, well really there isn't anything to feel guilty about as nothing happened other than two people having a good weekend 

The reason I'm not so sure about getting involved with her (_if she is even interested at all - I'm not sure_) is that I need to take care of myself and get myself right before I can be in another relationship. I've only been separated from my wife for 6 weeks, and I'm feeling a lot better, but nowhere near ready.

I did have a great weekend though and we have agreed to see each other again soon.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:
> 
> -She laughed at everything I said
> 
> -At times I noticed her playing with her hair
> 
> -At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.
> 
> -The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.
> 
> -When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.
> 
> -When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.
> 
> Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Ahh, puppy love...

WWB, have you seen the Three Amigos?

"When you want a woman, you take the woman"

I know you're not ready, but when you are, and you want or desire a woman, you take her. Meaning, you just make the first move. That's our job as men. 

Stop trying to read her so much. If you have any suspicion whatsoever that she's into you and you know you are into her, you just do it!!!!

Don't be afraid of rejection. Confidence is key.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Ahh, puppy love...
> 
> WWB, have you seen the Three Amigos?
> 
> "When you want a woman, you take the woman"
> 
> I know you're not ready, but when you are, and you want or desire a woman, you take her. Meaning, you just make the first move. That's our job as men.
> 
> Stop trying to read her so much. If you have any suspicion whatsoever that she's into you and you know you are into her, you just do it!!!!
> 
> Don't be afraid of rejection. Confidence is key.


I haven't seen that - I'll have to give it a watch!

It's not the rejection that I fear - she's been very supportive to me throughout all of this and she's a good friend, I don't really want to jeopardise that, especially not right now.

She's not ready for anything either as her boyfriend left her a week prior to my wife leaving. 

I think, that perhaps when the time is right, and if I do develop any feelings for her (which I can potentially see happening) I'll speak to her then. The only issue is she lives 150 miles away


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> So I spoke with a friend about my weekend earlier, and he seems to think that she's in to me. Some of the things I noticed:
> 
> -She laughed at everything I said
> 
> -At times I noticed her playing with her hair
> 
> -At times we were sat on her couch very close physically, our legs were touching, every now and then while talking we'd make eye contact and it would linger a little bit _too_ long.
> 
> -The subject of sex was discussed a few times, including her telling me how long it's been for her and that her and her ex were not very sexually compatible.
> 
> -When we made jokes, she wanted to high-five quite often. She also playfully "bumped" in to me a few times.
> 
> -When we were in a bar, several guys were trying to talk to her but she kept coming to talk to me.
> 
> Now, I'm useless at reading women, and I'm in no way saying that I'd want a relationship with this woman right now, as it would be doomed to fail anyway. She's a great girl, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> But, if she is in to me, that would be a nice confidence boost as my self-esteem has been pretty much crushed by my wife leaving.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Agree with the others, she wants you. Go get her.


----------



## Ceegee

It's funny, as we grow older, expectations between men and women change. In many areas they begin to get closer to aligning. 

When you are attracted to a woman, do you begin to think what a relationship would be like with them? And does that estimation have an influence in whether or not you pursue her?

Many women are much more open to casual relationships as they mature. Even if they're not, making an unreciprocated move on them does not mean they will be angry with you. 

Just don't get too tied up in what a woman might think of you if you make a move. 

When you're ready, get out there and test the waters. You don't need to jump into a relationship with the first girl you go out with.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> I haven't seen that - I'll have to give it a watch!
> 
> It's not the rejection that I fear - she's been very supportive to me throughout all of this and she's a good friend, I don't really want to jeopardise that, especially not right now.
> 
> She's not ready for anything either as her boyfriend left her a week prior to my wife leaving.
> 
> I think, that perhaps when the time is right, and if I do develop any feelings for her (which I can potentially see happening) I'll speak to her then. The only issue is she lives 150 miles away


actually that distance of 150 miles is perfect. You can be there any friday night you want and stay until sunday. Have a week with no obligation and back again. This can go on for quite sometime and neither of you would have a need to feel suffocated. It might be a great arrangement of a good friend with some benefits. After all you are both humans with needs and both of you will have a better outlook if you feel desired by someone new.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> It's funny, as we grow older, expectations between men and women change. In many areas they begin to get closer to aligning.
> 
> When you are attracted to a woman, do you begin to think what a relationship would be like with them? And does that estimation have an influence in whether or not you pursue her?
> 
> Many women are much more open to casual relationships as they mature. Even if they're not, making an unreciprocated move on them does not mean they will be angry with you.
> 
> Just don't get too tied up in what a woman might think of you if you make a move.
> 
> When you're ready, get out there and test the waters. You don't need to jump into a relationship with the first girl you go out with.


Yeah - I do begin to imagine what a relationship with them would be like, and I also try to imagine how it could pan out. If I don't think it's got a shot at being the real deal, then generally I don't pursue.

You're right about not needing to jump in to a relationship - I do need to meet lots of women, and build my confidence when I'm ready to do so. 

It's difficult not to worry about the potential repercussions of a failed attempt at making a move on a woman who is a good friend - I wouldn't want things to become weird.



> actually that distance of 150 miles is perfect. You can be there any friday night you want and stay until sunday. Have a week with no obligation and back again. This can go on for quite sometime and neither of you would have a need to feel suffocated. It might be a great arrangement of a good friend with some benefits. After all you are both humans with needs and both of you will have a better outlook if you feel desired by someone new.


I hadn't thought of this - although friends with benefits would be off the table, I just don't seem to be able to get in to sex with no emotional attachment. From what was said at the weekend - nor can she.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah - I do begin to imagine what a relationship with them would be like, and I also try to imagine how it could pan out. If I don't think it's got a shot at being the real deal, then generally I don't pursue.
> 
> You're right about not needing to jump in to a relationship - I do need to meet lots of women, and build my confidence when I'm ready to do so.
> 
> It's difficult not to worry about the potential repercussions of a failed attempt at making a move on a woman who is a good friend - I wouldn't want things to become weird.
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't thought of this - although friends with benefits would be off the table, I just don't seem to be able to get in to sex with no emotional attachment. From what was said at the weekend - nor can she.


I am the same way and think that is a genuine quality in both of you. Nothing wrong with cuddling up for a movie though..


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> I am the same way and think that is a genuine quality in both of you. Nothing wrong with cuddling up for a movie though..


Yeah, that's true. We did end up sitting very close when we were watching movies hehe 

I keep playing the weekend over in my head to see if I can see anything else that may have been a sign.... I have so much to learn!


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I have so much to learn!


Yes, you do.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> Yes, you do.


I've been out of the "game" for too long - I guess I'll get better at reading women again - I must have been able to do so in the past.

I still haven't broken no contact with my stbxw, which I'm proud of myself for. I miss her like crazy, and would give anything to talk to her, but I know if I do it's just going to drag the hurt up all over again and I just can't deal with that.

I've been keeping busy talking to friends, going out a lot, and trying to keep my mind occupied. 

It's quite good that I have a friend going through a very similar situation to me, we can kind of lean on each other for support.

I'm still not sleeping properly since my wife left, but my appetite is back at full strength. I'm constantly tired though, which makes it that much more difficult. Even if I have a couple of beers I don't seem to be able to sleep very well.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> I still haven't broken no contact with my stbxw, which I'm proud of myself for. I miss her like crazy, and would give anything to talk to her, but I know if I do it's just going to drag the hurt up all over again and I just can't deal with that.


I find myself thinking about my wife more and more as the day goes on. I'm not sure why but it's a difficult day today. 

I really want to talk to her, but the difference is I want her to contact me, I don't want to contact her. She isn't the woman I loved any more and she never truly loved me. I keep trying to remind myself of this. 

I'd just like to know if she's missing me as much as I miss her, or just that she's okay. But, on the flip-side, I don't want to because I'm not sure I even care enough any more. I know these feelings will pass though, and in all likelihood I'll probably feel a whole lot different in a few hours.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I find myself thinking about my wife more and more as the day goes on. I'm not sure why but it's a difficult day today.
> 
> I really want to talk to her, but the difference is I want her to contact me, I don't want to contact her. She isn't the woman I loved any more and she never truly loved me. I keep trying to remind myself of this.
> 
> I'd just like to know if she's missing me as much as I miss her, or just that she's okay. But, on the flip-side, I don't want to because I'm not sure I even care enough any more. I know these feelings will pass though, and in all likelihood I'll probably feel a whole lot different in a few hours.


Why do you insist on putting conditions on your happiness?

I'll be happy when I can no longer thing about her...

If I knew this girl was interested I'd make a move...


----------



## Ceegee

WWB,

Read this http://arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf.

Anytime you are feeling down again read it again.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> If I knew this girl was interested I'd make a move...


If I _knew_ she was interested I'd make a move too - she's gorgeous and very fun to be around.

But, I don't _know_. It's too soon to tell, I think perhaps I need to hang out with her some more to gauge the situation further.

She's comfortable with me touching her, as she let me help her button up her shirt sleeve and to do so I had to support her hand.

She also leaned on my leg for a while when we were sat.

And she gave me a hug as I was leaving, but it was a full frontal hug, not what I like to call a "sideways friend hug" that women sometimes give you.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> If I _knew_ she was interested I'd make a move too - she's gorgeous and very fun to be around.
> 
> But, I don't _know_. It's too soon to tell, I think perhaps I need to hang out with her some more to gauge the situation further.
> 
> She's comfortable with me touching her, as she let me help her button up her shirt sleeve and to do so I had to support her hand.
> 
> She also leaned on my leg for a while when we were sat.
> 
> And she gave me a hug as I was leaving, but it was a full frontal hug, not what I like to call a "sideways friend hug" that women sometimes give you.


WWB,

Here's a little secret.

You know how to find out if she's interested? 

Make a move! 

If she doesn't feel that way she'll let you know. She won't be mad or hate you. You're adults. This is what adults who are attracted to each other do.

If that's what *you* want then do it.

Don't make a bigger deal about it than it is.

I'm not saying jump her bones. When the moment feels right just move in for a kiss and let it go wherever it goes.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I know these feelings will pass though, and in all likelihood I'll probably feel a whole lot different in a few hours.


Yes, you will feel differently in a few hours. This is truly a rollercoaster we're on. It will take months or years for it level off, but the work takes place every day and does get better and easier.


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> You know how to find out if she's interested?
> 
> Make a move!


Yep, do this!


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Hey BM85 - How did it go?


Hey WWB - It went alright. She turned out to be a beautiful woman and there is definitely some attraction there. I got the vibe she wasn't interested because she left Friday early in the night. I asked her friend and she said she was interested and she just doesn't stay out late Fridays. So I don't know, maybe something will happen, maybe it won't. I'm hoping we can all go out again this weekend and I can get a better feel for things. I'm glad to hear you had a good weekend. This woman is DEFINITELY into you man. All of the signs are there. I think you(and I) have been out of the game so long we probably are over-analyzing things with regards to woman having interest or not. In your case, it sounds like she is interested for sure. I would say ask her out if you think you are emotionally ready. Remember, it doesn't have to be serious right away. Good luck man.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WWB- good advice from a movie - "just lean into it: the outcome doesn't matter. What matters is that you were there for it."

If she says no, you go back to being friends, no biggie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

Brokenman85 said:


> Hey WWB - It went alright. She turned out to be a beautiful woman and there is definitely some attraction there. I got the vibe she wasn't interested because she left Friday early in the night. I asked her friend and she said she was interested and she just doesn't stay out late Fridays. So I don't know, maybe something will happen, maybe it won't. I'm hoping we can all go out again this weekend and I can get a better feel for things. I'm glad to hear you had a good weekend. This woman is DEFINITELY into you man. All of the signs are there. I think you(and I) have been out of the game so long we probably are over-analyzing things with regards to woman having interest or not. In your case, it sounds like she is interested for sure. I would say ask her out if you think you are emotionally ready. Remember, it doesn't have to be serious right away. Good luck man.


BM85,

Sometimes girls go home early because they tire of waiting for something to happen...

Just saying.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> WWB,
> 
> Here's a little secret.
> 
> You know how to find out if she's interested?
> 
> Make a move!
> 
> If she doesn't feel that way she'll let you know. She won't be mad or hate you. You're adults. This is what adults who are attracted to each other do.
> 
> If that's what *you* want then do it.
> 
> Don't make a bigger deal about it than it is.
> 
> I'm not saying jump her bones. When the moment feels right just move in for a kiss and let it go wherever it goes.


I guess I could, if the right moment arises. I've done this before with other women, there's no reason I can't do it again, it's just been so long!

It is the only way I'll find out for sure though, when I'm ready that is.

Regarding what I want, I don't even know what I want - Part of me wants my Wife back still. Another part wants to see how things may well pan out with this woman, and again another part of me just wants to be alone and do my own thing for a while. I'm so confused at the moment.



> Yes, you will feel differently in a few hours. This is truly a rollercoaster we're on. It will take months or years for it level off, but the work takes place every day and does get better and easier.


As suspected I do feel different now. In fact a letter arrived for her in the mail today, and I considered sending her a quick text to ask if she'd prefer me to forward it to her mother's house or to her work address, then it dawned on me that I don't give a damn what she prefers and I'll just send it to her work address. I'm also going to address it in her maiden name. :rofl:



> Hey WWB - It went alright. She turned out to be a beautiful woman and there is definitely some attraction there. I got the vibe she wasn't interested because she left Friday early in the night. I asked her friend and she said she was interested and she just doesn't stay out late Fridays. So I don't know, maybe something will happen, maybe it won't. I'm hoping we can all go out again this weekend and I can get a better feel for things. I'm glad to hear you had a good weekend. This woman is DEFINITELY into you man. All of the signs are there. I think you(and I) have been out of the game so long we probably are over-analyzing things with regards to woman having interest or not. In your case, it sounds like she is interested for sure. I would say ask her out if you think you are emotionally ready. Remember, it doesn't have to be serious right away. Good luck man.


I think you're right about the over analysing things, it has been way too long.

I'm hoping to see her again in another three weeks time, me and a few friends are going out for halloween and I've asked her to join us. She said she'd try get the day off work and travel down  I guess if she's willing to travel 150 miles to spend a night out with me... that could be taken as a good sign!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I forwarded her mail to her work today. I included a brief one sentence note asking her to change her address.

I wanted to write so much more, but I exercised restraint.

I'm thinking about her a lot again today, and I really just want to reach out to her and try to reconcile - but I know that it won't work, so I'm not going to.

I also know that I don't want her back the way she is. She needs to do some serious work on herself, and I think I've been blaming myself far too much. Of course I am partially to blame, but through time spent thinking, journalling and IC I'm coming to realise that she actually has a lot of the problems and issues.

When I started this thread I was saying how a married woman should be able to go to dinner with a male friend if she wished. Now I think I was so stupid and I should have put my foot down. It made me uncomfortable, I wasn't happy about it, but because I'm a "Nice Guy" I'd convinced myself that this was acceptable and I was the one in the wrong for feeling the way I did. 

A loving spouse should never have done *anything* that made me uncomfortable. The more I look back over our relationship, the more convinced I am that she never loved me, and that she doesn't even know what love is.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I forwarded her mail to her work today. I included a brief one sentence note asking her to change her address.
> 
> I wanted to write so much more, but I exercised restraint.
> 
> I'm thinking about her a lot again today, and I really just want to reach out to her and try to reconcile - but I know that it won't work, so I'm not going to.
> 
> I also know that I don't want her back the way she is. She needs to do some serious work on herself, and I think I've been blaming myself far too much. Of course I am partially to blame, but through time spent thinking, journalling and IC I'm coming to realise that she actually has a lot of the problems and issues.
> 
> When I started this thread I was saying how a married woman should be able to go to dinner with a male friend if she wished. Now I think I was so stupid and I should have put my foot down. It made me uncomfortable, I wasn't happy about it, but because I'm a "Nice Guy" I'd convinced myself that this was acceptable and I was the one in the wrong for feeling the way I did.
> 
> A loving spouse should never have done *anything* that made me uncomfortable. The more I look back over our relationship, the more convinced I am that she never loved me, and that she doesn't even know what love is.


WWB- you hold your ground and stay strong. I think you are doing a great job so far! Do not engage in a conversation with her. Just continue to gain strength in yourself. Keep it up!


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> WWB- you hold your ground and stay strong. I think you are doing a great job so far! Do not engage in a conversation with her. Just continue to gain strength in yourself. Keep it up!


I'm going to  6 weeks separated now and things don't seem quite so bad as they did to begin with. I think that's helping a lot.

My friends and family have been very supportive of me too, as well as all of you guys here at TAM. I couldn't do this without all of you.

When I want to talk to her I'm really trying to remember all of the hurtful things she has said and done, not just since the break-up, but over the course of our entire relationship, and in hindsight, there were many red flags at the start of our relationship. 

A few months in to our relationship I asked her to give me more space, and she flipped out, went and got drunk with her friends and went to visit a different ex-boyfriend. She called me while she was there purely to upset me. You just don't do that. 

My request for more space was entirely harmless, but because she reacted the way she did, I felt I was in the wrong once again, I backed down. I felt guilty for wanting to be able to do my own thing, and gradually, I gave up almost everything I enjoyed, my music, playing my guitar, my friends, drinking & socialising. It all went because I didn't stand up for myself and take the space that I needed.

Hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I forwarded her mail to her work today. I included a brief one sentence note asking her to change her address.
> 
> I wanted to write so much more, but I exercised restraint.
> 
> I'm thinking about her a lot again today, and I really just want to reach out to her and try to reconcile - but I know that it won't work, so I'm not going to.
> 
> I also know that I don't want her back the way she is. She needs to do some serious work on herself, and I think I've been blaming myself far too much. Of course I am partially to blame, but through time spent thinking, journalling and IC I'm coming to realise that she actually has a lot of the problems and issues.
> 
> When I started this thread I was saying how a married woman should be able to go to dinner with a male friend if she wished. Now I think I was so stupid and I should have put my foot down. It made me uncomfortable, I wasn't happy about it, but because I'm a "Nice Guy" I'd convinced myself that this was acceptable and I was the one in the wrong for feeling the way I did.
> 
> A loving spouse should never have done *anything* that made me uncomfortable. The more I look back over our relationship, the more convinced I am that she never loved me, and that she doesn't even know what love is.


A lot of great progress is shown in this post. Keep it up.

I will say, however, that you don't know that she never loved you. She may have.

A lot of your "Nice Guy" doormat tendencies are ingrained due to societal expectations.

If this is true, the same could be true for your wife.

Just as men are conditioned to be doormats, women can be trained to be entitled princesses. 

Point being, instead of focusing on whether or not she ever loved you, learn from your experiences and move on with the knowledge you've gained. You'll be much better prepared finding someone more balanced and aware.

Have you read DeMello yet?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> A lot of great progress is shown in this post. Keep it up.
> 
> I will say, however, that you don't know that she never loved you. She may have.
> 
> A lot of your "Nice Guy" doormat tendencies are ingrained due to societal expectations.
> 
> If this is true, the same could be true for your wife.
> 
> Just as men are conditioned to be doormats, women can be trained to be entitled princesses.
> 
> Point being, instead of focusing on whether or not she ever loved you, learn from your experiences and move on with the knowledge you've gained. You'll be much better prepared finding someone more balanced and aware.
> 
> Have you read DeMello yet?


I'm not so sure that she did - at least not unconditionally. Obviously I can't say 100% that she didn't, but looking to the past, I find it more and more difficult to believe.

She is an entitled princess, completely. She's always got her own way, and has always been spoiled and bossy. I knew this at the start, but love allowed me to look past that. Whilst I love her dearly and we shared some great times together, I am starting to think that she isn't the right one for me, and never truly was. 

I believe that everything happens for a reason, and I'm thinking perhaps the reason for my relationship/marriage with my STBXW was to teach me what true love really means. I love her truly, completely and unconditionally, however she did not reciprocate. Now I know what "false" love looks like, and now I know that I feel true love for her, I can look for someone who feels that way about me in the future. 

There were always conditions, at the start of our relationship, she made me quit smoking, otherwise she would have left me. Whilst quitting smoking is a good thing, this was a condition she placed on her love. She did something similar with my eating habits, made me change those and would act "disappointed" in me should I stray slightly from my healthy diet. I'm not a big guy, I didn't need to change my eating habits.

In many ways she's poison for a guy with a "Nice Guy" mentality, because she would make my life miserable if I didn't keep her 100% happy all of the time. If I did something she didn't agree with, she would be cold towards me, would withhold affection, would make digs at me, try to start fights and sometimes give me the silent treatment. This could be anything from me having a few beers with buddies all the way up to saying something insulting to one of her friends, and anything in between.

I started reading DeMello this morning. I really liked the anecdote in the foreword about the eagle and the chickens.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not so sure that she did - at least not unconditionally. Obviously I can't say 100% that she didn't, but looking to the past, I find it more and more difficult to believe.
> 
> She is an entitled princess, completely. She's always got her own way, and has always been spoiled and bossy. I knew this at the start, but love allowed me to look past that. Whilst I love her dearly and we shared some great times together, I am starting to think that she isn't the right one for me, and never truly was.
> 
> I believe that everything happens for a reason, and I'm thinking perhaps the reason for my relationship/marriage with my STBXW was to teach me what true love really means. I love her truly, completely and unconditionally, however she did not reciprocate. Now I know what "false" love looks like, and now I know that I feel true love for her, I can look for someone who feels that way about me in the future.
> 
> There were always conditions, at the start of our relationship, she made me quit smoking, otherwise she would have left me. Whilst quitting smoking is a good thing, this was a condition she placed on her love. She did something similar with my eating habits, made me change those and would act "disappointed" in me should I stray slightly from my healthy diet. I'm not a big guy, I didn't need to change my eating habits.
> 
> In many ways she's poison for a guy with a "Nice Guy" mentality, because she would make my life miserable if I didn't keep her 100% happy all of the time. If I did something she didn't agree with, she would be cold towards me, would withhold affection, would make digs at me, try to start fights and sometimes give me the silent treatment. This could be anything from me having a few beers with buddies all the way up to saying something insulting to one of her friends, and anything in between.
> 
> I started reading DeMello this morning. I really liked the anecdote in the foreword about the eagle and the chickens.


I don't know that everything happens for a reason but I believe there are lessons to be learned in everything we do. 

Take your time thinking back in all of the lessons you were taught in your marriage. 

Eventually you need to detach the resentments from them so you can move on. 

All entitled princesses are poison for Nice Guys. That doesn't necessarily mean they are doomed for failure. It takes one to become aware and see things the way they are. 

As you move on, the roller coaster will continue. I've been separated from my wife for 16 months now (divorced almost 2) and I still have my highs and lows. You'll do well to learn how to separate logic and emotion. 

Yes, you love her (emotional).

You can't be in a one-sided relationship (logical). 

Learn when to apply this and you can manage those lows better. 

When all else fails, fake it til you make it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> I don't know that everything happens for a reason but I believe there are lessons to be learned in everything we do.
> 
> Take your time thinking back in all of the lessons you were taught in your marriage.
> 
> Eventually you need to detach the resentments from them so you can move on.
> 
> All entitled princesses are poison for Nice Guys. That doesn't necessarily mean they are doomed for failure. It takes one to become aware and see things the way they are.
> 
> As you move on, the roller coaster will continue. I've been separated from my wife for 16 months now (divorced almost 2) and I still have my highs and lows. You'll do well to learn how to separate logic and emotion.
> 
> Yes, you love her (emotional).
> 
> You can't be in a one-sided relationship (logical).
> 
> Learn when to apply this and you can manage those lows better.
> 
> When all else fails, fake it til you make it.


The lessons we learn in everything are the reasons, I think.

I feel like I've learned a lot over the time spent with my wife, however I'm only seeing it on reflection, maybe it's because I'm emotionally detaching from her that I am able to see this things, I don't know.

I don't doubt that the roller coaster will continue, and I don't doubt that things will get worse again, far worse. Particularly with our anniversary of becoming a couple coming up, and my birthday. I'm not looking forward to those days at all.

I need to practice separating my emotions and thoughts some more, I think I'm getting better at it though. All of my friends and family have commented on how well I'm doing given the circumstances... but what other choice do I have but to get on with things, right?


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I need to practice separating my emotions and thoughts some more, I think I'm getting better at it though. All of my friends and family have commented on how well I'm doing given the circumstances... but what other choice do I have but to get on with things, right?


Your thoughts are just thoughts.

You can choose to attach an emotion to them and have a feeling or you can choose to apply logic and learn a lesson.

Your birthday...you feel this will be difficult because you love your wife? Or is it because you'll miss having someone to share it with?

These are not the same. Anyone else could potentially fill in to share your birthday with you. 

Imagine how much better it could be if that someone actually loved you and cared about you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Your thoughts are just thoughts.
> 
> You can choose to attach an emotion to them and have a feeling or you can choose to apply logic and learn a lesson.
> 
> Your birthday...you feel this will be difficult because you love your wife? Or is it because you'll miss having someone to share it with?
> 
> These are not the same. Anyone else could potentially fill in to share your birthday with you.
> 
> Imagine how much better it could be if that someone actually loved you and cared about you.


I feel it will be difficult because I've always shared it with my wife. I can spend it with friends and family this year, but I will still miss my wife on that particular day. We always used to spend the day doing something together on each other's birthdays. Same at Christmas and New Year too.

I'm also dreading those two days, as I think that if she is going to break her no contact, it will be either of those days. I will most likely be emotional on these days, and if she does contact me, I worry that I may not have the strength to ignore her.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I feel it will be difficult because I've always shared it with my wife. I can spend it with friends and family this year, but I will still miss my wife on that particular day. We always used to spend the day doing something together on each other's birthdays. Same at Christmas and New Year too.
> 
> I'm also dreading those two days, as I think that if she is going to break her no contact, it will be either of those days. I will most likely be emotional on these days, and if she does contact me, I worry that I may not have the strength to ignore her.


And if you fail to ignore her?

You start again the next day. Another lesson learned.

Most of the stress we have going through all of this (aside from the stress we put on ourselves to do everything "right") is worrying what they may or may not do.

I do it too sometimes.

When you focus on them you lose focus of yourself.


----------



## Conrad

Damn, Ceegee, you are rendering me irrelevant.

Great stuff.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Damn, Ceegee, you are rendering me irrelevant.
> 
> Great stuff.


Some of these things I just learned yesterday.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> And if you fail to ignore her?
> 
> You start again the next day. Another lesson learned.
> 
> Most of the stress we have going through all of this (aside from the stress we put on ourselves to do everything "right") is worrying what they may or may not do.
> 
> I do it too sometimes.
> 
> When you focus on them you lose focus of yourself.


I know it's not the end of the world if I fail to ignore her, but I don't want to take that step backwards, I feel like I've come on leaps and bounds over the last two weeks. I'm kind of terrified of backsliding.

I'll agree worrying about what she may or may not do in certain situations, and sometimes wondering "I wonder what she's doing right now" is a huge stress. Lately I've just been not caring, and have been worrying about what I'm doing, and it's a huge load off to be honest. I'm really trying not to sweat the things that I can't control.

But like you said, sometimes it's just the way your thought process goes - it can't be helped. I don't know your story Ceegee, but I spent the last 6 years on eggshells, worrying about her reaction to absolutely everything I did or said, it's a tough habit to break. 

I'm sure in good time all will be right again, and things are improving at the moment. I'm almost a week with no contact, and I have had a few moments where I've wanted to talk to her, but nothing insurmountable.

I'm not sure if talking to other women has been helping, but I feel more confident in myself, and I'm feeling a lot less like I _need_ my STBXW, and if I'm honest, I'm feeling less like I _want_ her too.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I know it's not the end of the world if I fail to ignore her, but I don't want to take that step backwards, I feel like I've come on leaps and bounds over the last two weeks. I'm kind of terrified of backsliding.
> 
> I'll agree worrying about what she may or may not do in certain situations, and sometimes wondering "I wonder what she's doing right now" is a huge stress. Lately I've just been not caring, and have been worrying about what I'm doing, and it's a huge load off to be honest. I'm really trying not to sweat the things that I can't control.
> 
> But like you said, sometimes it's just the way your thought process goes - it can't be helped. *I don't know your story Ceegee*, but *I spent the last 6 years on eggshells, worrying about her reaction to absolutely everything I did or said*, it's a tough habit to break.
> 
> I'm sure in good time all will be right again, and things are improving at the moment. I'm almost a week with no contact, and I have had a few moments where I've wanted to talk to her, but nothing insurmountable.
> 
> I'm not sure if talking to other women has been helping, but I feel more confident in myself, and I'm feeling a lot less like I _need_ my STBXW, and if I'm honest, I'm feeling less like I _want_ her too.


I thought you said you didn't know my story???


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> I thought you said you didn't know my story???


Sounds like he's the janitor on Crazy Train II


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not sure if talking to other women has been helping, but I feel more confident in myself, and I'm feeling a lot less like I _need_ my STBXW, and if I'm honest, I'm feeling less like I _want_ her too.


I'd imagine that after 6 years of walking on eggshells, your confidence may have taken a hit.

Talk to other women. The pretty ones, the ugly ones. The skinny ones and the fat ones. Talk to all of them.

The more you talk to the more comfortable and confident you become. 

You should feel like you could walk into any room anywhere and begin a conversation with anyone - even the hottest girl in the room - and feel just as comfortable as if you were talking to your best friend.

What happens then?

You don't have to worry about what they think or how they feel because it'll be so obvious you can't miss it.


----------



## angstire

Great advice CeeGee.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> I thought you said you didn't know my story???


I'm guessing that perhaps a lot of our stories are similar in a lot of ways.



> I'd imagine that after 6 years of walking on eggshells, your confidence may have taken a hit.
> 
> Talk to other women. The pretty ones, the ugly ones. The skinny ones and the fat ones. Talk to all of them.
> 
> The more you talk to the more comfortable and confident you become.
> 
> You should feel like you could walk into any room anywhere and begin a conversation with anyone - even the hottest girl in the room - and feel just as comfortable as if you were talking to your best friend.
> 
> What happens then?
> 
> You don't have to worry about what they think or how they feel because it'll be so obvious you can't miss it.


While I was with my STBXW, I felt worthless. I felt like every guy in the world was better than me. She made me feel that way by never appreciating me and always complaining or criticising me. She used to compliment me, but my low self-esteem caused me to reject them, and then she stopped complimenting me. This made my low self-esteem lower. Coupled with some of the things she did during her relationship that made me feel completely and worthless and unloved, it just made me up my "Nice Guy" game. F*ck that.

I wrote a very good journal entry last night, basically in the form of a letter to my STBXW as all my entries are. I wrote all of the things that she did wrong in our relationship, and how I felt about them, mostly pretty angry. I think I'm starting to recognise the difference between anger and justified anger. I was scared to show anger, or stand up for myself in our relationship as I thought it could be viewed as aggression or hostility. I should have got mad, I should have stood my ground on things. Instead, I always backed down, apologised and put all the effort in.

The first time we split up, and she very quickly got involved with another man - after they got physical, she wanted to reconcile. Can you guess who did all the work? Can you guess who was the one to apologise? Bingo - Me. She made me feel like I'd pushed her to do what she did, and I believed that. Seriously, what the f*ck.

She used to compliment everything, from the way I looked, to my "endowment". I'd always say things like "You're deluded" or "I disagree but thank you". But she was right, I do look good, and I am rather well endowed - TMI perhaps, but I don't care - one of the things that I did wrong was caring what others think too much, including my wife - no longer - I say what I want when I want, I do what I want when I want, if you don't like it, that's your problem . These things help boost my confidence.

A few weeks back, I was sat staring in to a mirror (Yeah, I'm not sure why either), but I had a good look at myself. In that moment I realised that I am actually a pretty good looking guy, and for the first time in my life, I believed it. After realising that, I realised that I have a lot to offer a woman emotionally and physically. 

Six years of walking on eggshells has not only killed my confidence, but it's absolutely exhausting. Since my STBXW left, I've actually been able to stay up later, sleep less, and feel just as fine as I did when I slept longer before she left. The stress must have been subconsciously wearing me out.

I will talk to other women - I think the weekend helped boost my confidence a lot. Although nothing happened physically, it was nice to spend some time with a beautiful woman who was very clearly enjoying my company.

I need to get out more! I'm not sure quite where to meet women aside from bars though, and I can't drink every night  I guess I could meet them anywhere, but I really struggle to start conversations with strangers! I guess this will get better with practice though.


----------



## angstire

Hey WWB, good post. You're correct that much stress will take a toll and you're catching up now.

You can meet women at the grocery store, through single Meetup groups, the bar, church (if you're so inclined) and online. I have kids, so online is the best way for me; it gets that kid question right out of the way. But you're younger, so online may not be as necessary.

A couple of pieces of feedback:

1. Anger is normal and during the healing process can be good. It can help detach from her and get you focused on being selfish (i.e. taking care of you). Being resentful and angry because I couldn't control things is something I am fixing about me now, so I know how this can affect your life.

2. I think this is a language thing for many of us, using the phrase, she made me.... You may know this, but as part of being a recovering Nice Guy, no one can make you feel or act anyway. That's all you. You can ask for people to give you what you want and they can say yes or no. However, no one can make you feel anything. That's you feeling rejected or hurt or angy or controlling or whatever. As you get better at focusing on your actions and your needs and wants, it will be easier to disengage from blaming others for how you feel. I don't mean to be harsh, but this is the truth.

3. Try to accept compliments and be gracious without dismissing them or devaluing them. It takes effort to reach out of oneself and compliment someone else, so take a compliment from somoeone else with a "thank you" and don't diminish it verbally or in your head.

4. Should is a vulgar word, but we can chat about that as you move through this. You've got plenty to work on already. 

You're doing a great job in a short time period. I'm glad you're on TAM for you. CeeGee has given great advice too and you are receptive to what TAM has to say. Welcome.


----------



## Ceegee

Great post.

The rate of your recover is directly related to the work you put in.

A few notes/comments...



WantWifeBack said:


> I'm guessing that perhaps a lot of our stories are similar in a lot of ways.


You'll be amazed at how similar similar some of our stories are.




> While I was with my STBXW, I felt worthless. I felt like every guy in the world was better than me. She made me feel that way by never appreciating me and always complaining or criticising me. She used to compliment me, but my low self-esteem caused me to reject them, and then she stopped complimenting me. This made my low self-esteem lower. Coupled with some of the things she did during her relationship that made me feel completely and worthless and unloved, it just made me up my "Nice Guy" game. F*ck that.


She didn't make you but she had an active hand in it. Compliments are nice but whether or not you receive them should not determine your self worth.

Doubling-up on doormat behavior is all Nice Guys know to do when faced with controversy. I was also this way and figuring out that I was complicit in the demise of my marriage because of it was a hard pill to swallow. These are all lessons though so you take it what you learn and move on.



> I wrote a very good journal entry last night, basically in the form of a letter to my STBXW as all my entries are. I wrote all of the things that she did wrong in our relationship, and how I felt about them, mostly pretty angry. I think I'm starting to recognise the difference between anger and justified anger. I was scared to show anger, or stand up for myself in our relationship as I thought it could be viewed as aggression or hostility. I should have got mad, I should have stood my ground on things. Instead, I always backed down, apologised and put all the effort in.


Anger is a normal human emotion. These is no shame in being angry. Having a cool, calm and dispassionate demeanor is the key. Restraint is masculine. You set boundaries. When boundaries are crossed you simply let them know that you are not ok with it. Further infractions require consequences - and you have to stick to them.



> The first time we split up, and she very quickly got involved with another man - after they got physical, she wanted to reconcile. Can you guess who did all the work? Can you guess who was the one to apologise? Bingo - Me. She made me feel like I'd pushed her to do what she did, and I believed that. Seriously, what the f*ck.


You know better...enough said.



> She used to compliment everything, from the way I looked, to my "endowment". I'd always say things like "You're deluded" or "I disagree but thank you". But she was right, I do look good, and I am rather well endowed - TMI perhaps, but I don't care - one of the things that I did wrong was caring what others think too much, including my wife - no longer - I say what I want when I want, I do what I want when I want, if you don't like it, that's your problem . These things help boost my confidence.


Caring too much about what others think is a symptom of ________?



> A few weeks back, I was sat staring in to a mirror (Yeah, I'm not sure why either), but I had a good look at myself. In that moment I realised that I am actually a pretty good looking guy, and for the first time in my life, I believed it. After realising that, I realised that I have a lot to offer a woman emotionally and physically.


Now that you know it, walk tall with your chest out. Smile more. Literally. You won't believe how much more attention you will get.



> Six years of walking on eggshells has not only killed my confidence, but it's absolutely exhausting. Since my STBXW left, I've actually been able to stay up later, sleep less, and feel just as fine as I did when I slept longer before she left. The stress must have been subconsciously wearing me out.


You can only blame yourself for this.



> I will talk to other women - I think the weekend helped boost my confidence a lot. Although nothing happened physically, it was nice to spend some time with a beautiful woman who was very clearly enjoying my company.
> 
> I need to get out more! I'm not sure quite where to meet women aside from bars though, and I can't drink every night  I guess I could meet them anywhere, but I really struggle to start conversations with strangers! I guess this will get better with practice though.


You can meet women wherever they are. EVERYWHERE!

The best way to start a conversation? Say something funny. You see a woman that catches your eye find something funny to say. Anything, it doesn't matter. Everyone likes to laugh.


ETA: Continue writing your journals to STBXW. Add a journal directed to yourself and then compare the two.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Hey WWB, good post. You're correct that much stress will take a toll and you're catching up now.
> 
> You can meet women at the grocery store, through single Meetup groups, the bar, church (if you're so inclined) and online. I have kids, so online is the best way for me; it gets that kid question right out of the way. But you're younger, so online may not be as necessary.
> 
> A couple of pieces of feedback:
> 
> 1. Anger is normal and during the healing process can be good. It can help detach from her and get you focused on being selfish (i.e. taking care of you). Being resentful and angry because I couldn't control things is something I am fixing about me now, so I know how this can affect your life.
> 
> 2. I think this is a language thing for many of us, using the phrase, she made me.... You may know this, but as part of being a recovering Nice Guy, no one can make you feel or act anyway. That's all you. You can ask for people to give you what you want and they can say yes or no. However, no one can make you feel anything. That's you feeling rejected or hurt or angy or controlling or whatever. As you get better at focusing on your actions and your needs and wants, it will be easier to disengage from blaming others for how you feel. I don't mean to be harsh, but this is the truth.
> 
> 3. Try to accept compliments and be gracious without dismissing them or devaluing them. It takes effort to reach out of oneself and compliment someone else, so take a compliment from somoeone else with a "thank you" and don't diminish it verbally or in your head.
> 
> 4. Should is a vulgar word, but we can chat about that as you move through this. You've got plenty to work on already.
> 
> You're doing a great job in a short time period. I'm glad you're on TAM for you. CeeGee has given great advice too and you are receptive to what TAM has to say. Welcome.


You're right, she didn't make me feel any way at all. I allowed myself to feel that way. I made myself feel like I was in the wrong, to make her feel happier. That was wrong of me, I should have stood my ground, and trusted in my gut reactions to the things she did. I'm done allowing myself to be a pushover. It just not happening any more.

I'm getting better at accepting compliments, not that I have received many of late! I need to go hang out around women more and let them stroke my........ ego. 

Why is should a vulgar word? I appreciate there's a difference between "Should do" and "doing" - is this why?

TAM is amazing - I really don't think I'd have made anywhere near this much progress without everyone's support here. I spend so much time reading the boards I'm considering making it my homepage!

I'm finding myself thinking more and more about the woman I spent the weekend with. I'm quite confused at the moment. 

I'm still in love with my wife, or at least my idealised memories of her. Not the person she is now. She did a lot of wrong, but when it was good, it was *good*.

On the other hand, I'm quite interested to see where things may or may not lead with this woman - but I guess nothing can be forced, what will be will be.

And again, I kind of just want to be alone and do my own thing for a while, and given the other two options, really I think this is my only option.

I think I've just solved my confusion, or at the very least rationalised it. I don't want to stop talking to this new woman, but if I don't I fear I'll end up more confused. Or worse, if I develop feelings for her that aren't reciprocated, I'll just have my confidence crushed again.


----------



## angstire

Being alone is always a good idea; esp. if you think that's what you need. 

The physical distance may help with this woman. You can keep chatting without it moving too fast. 

I know what you mean about being in love with the idealized woman. If you've read my thread, I went thru a period of reaching an understanding of loving the idealized her, that she created with her lies and I created with my hope. Blame rests on me for loving an idealized version of stbxw.

Should implies control and judgement. "You should not date" is obvious control and judgement. "I should mow the grass" is also judgement of myself and expectations which are not enforced and may come from the outside. I sometimes still slip and say should, or use it intentionally. However, even with my internal dialogue, I try to use "need" or "want" or "may". If I say to myself, "I should do the laundry", I try to restate as, "I need to do the laundry this week and I will. Tonight, I'm going to take time for me and watch Game of Thrones." Being so rigid about the word should is a way to back away from control and judgement of not just others, but ourselves as well.

Agreed, TAM has been amazing.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> She didn't make you but she had an active hand in it. Compliments are nice but whether or not you receive them should not determine your self worth.


I realise that compliments do not determine my self worth - as I have always been unable to accept them, for me they never have. However, when she stopped complimenting me, it did take its toll on my confidence.



> Doubling-up on doormat behavior is all Nice Guys know to do when faced with controversy. I was also this way and figuring out that I was complicit in the demise of my marriage because of it was a hard pill to swallow. These are all lessons though so you take it what you learn and move on.


This was a factor in the demise of my marriage too. She lost respect for me as a man for my inability to stand my ground. As a result, the more respect she lost, the more disrespectful her behaviour, and so the cycle goes on and on, until I end up here.



> Anger is a normal human emotion. These is no shame in being angry. Having a cool, calm and dispassionate demeanor is the key. Restraint is masculine. You set boundaries. When boundaries are crossed you simply let them know that you are not ok with it. Further infractions require consequences - and you have to stick to them.


I got two of the three down - The boundaries were there, she crossed them, I got angry. It's the consequences and sticking to them that I couldn't enforce. She always said that she'd have to be the one to discipline our hypothetical children as I'm too much of a soft touch.



> Caring too much about what others think is a symptom of ________?


Exactly. I don't even need to answer this.



> Now that you know it, walk tall with your chest out. Smile more. Literally. You won't believe how much more attention you will get.


Now this is what I need to put in to practice. I need to exude confidence in everything that I do. Even if I "fake it til I make it", it will make me feel better about myself, and it will also draw more women to me 



> The best way to start a conversation? Say something funny. You see a woman that catches your eye find something funny to say. Anything, it doesn't matter. Everyone likes to laugh.


See, this never occurred to me. I always toned down my sense of humour for fear of offending someone. _For fear of what others might think._ At the weekend when I was out with this woman, I didn't hold back, and she laughed so much, genuine uncontrollable fits of hearty laughter.



> Continue writing your journals to STBXW. Add a journal directed to yourself and then compare the two.


Although I write my journal entries to STBXW - I do include things about myself, things I've discovered, progress I am making and so forth, but I write it as if I'm telling her. I've literally just realised that *I write it as if I'm still seeking her approval.* I'll admit, the entries get less needy as time goes on, in fact the last few are mostly about why she doesn't deserve me, and less about how I miss her, or how I've bettered myself.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm getting better at accepting compliments, not that I have received many of late! I need to go hang out around women more and let them stroke my........ ego.
> 
> I'm finding myself thinking more and more about the woman I spent the weekend with. I'm quite confused at the moment.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm quite interested to see where things may or may not lead with this woman - but I guess nothing can be forced, what will be will be.
> 
> I think I've just solved my confusion, or at the very least rationalised it. I don't want to stop talking to this new woman, but if I don't I fear I'll end up more confused. Or worse, if I develop feelings for her that aren't reciprocated, I'll just have my confidence crushed again.


There are more ways to accept compliments than thank you, etc.

If a woman pays you a compliment you can open more doors with a witty comment. 

Woman: Hey, that's a nice shirt.

WWB: Aww, I bet you say that to all the guys.

Use your imagination.

Do you see any correlation in the way you are pining for this new friend and the way you pined for your wife in the marriage?

Be careful to not be the wimpy kid sitting on the sidelines waiting to be picked.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Being alone is always a good idea; esp. if you think that's what you need.
> 
> The physical distance may help with this woman. You can keep chatting without it moving too fast.
> 
> I know what you mean about being in love with the idealized woman. If you've read my thread, I went thru a period of reaching an understanding of loving the idealized her, that she created with her lies and I created with my hope. Blame rests on me for loving an idealized version of stbxw.
> 
> Should implies control and judgement. "You should not date" is obvious control and judgement. "I should mow the grass" is also judgement of myself and expectations which are not enforced and may come from the outside. I sometimes still slip and say should, or use it intentionally. However, even with my internal dialogue, I try to use "need" or "want" or "may". If I say to myself, "I should do the laundry", I try to restate as, "I need to do the laundry this week and I will. Tonight, I'm going to take time for me and watch Game of Thrones." Being so rigid about the word should is a way to back away from control and judgement of not just others, but ourselves as well.
> 
> Agreed, TAM has been amazing.


The physical distance could be a blessing I agree. Time will tell on this one I guess!

I also created my idealised wife out of hope. I revered her like a goddess. She was perfect in my eyes. That's a lot of pressure to place on someone's shoulders. Blame is also mine for loving an idealised woman. The way I see it now, as soon as you start loving something that isn't genuine, it all goes down hill from there.

I'll try to cut "should" from my vocabulary - I'd never viewed it as a judgmental word.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> There are more ways to accept compliments than thank you, etc.
> 
> If a woman pays you a compliment you can open more doors with a witty comment.
> 
> Woman: Hey, that's a nice shirt.
> 
> WWB: Aww, I bet you say that to all the guys.
> 
> Use your imagination.
> 
> Do you see any correlation in the way you are pining for this new friend and the way you pined for your wife in the marriage?
> 
> Be careful to not be the wimpy kid sitting on the sidelines waiting to be picked.


Woman: Hey, that's a nice shirt.

WWB: Thanks, I bought it to match your bedroom carpet.

I don't see any correlation in this no. As I've learned more about myself I realise that I want a completely different relationship. Me and my STBXW are both guilty of smothering one another. I want freedom now. I want a relationship in which I can feel free to by myself, and do what I want, without worrying about what my girlfriend thinks. That's entirely possible, especially with this new friend of mine, as she wants the same.

I'm not going to sit on the sidelines - but we're both quite emotionally delicate at the moment, so it can't even be nudged slightly in the right direction.... yet.


----------



## angstire

I disagree with CeeGee on this one. Accept compliments with a thank you and move on. Honor it.

If you can turn it into a flirty exchange, great. Try not to dismiss compliments though. Accept that you're great and don't deflect the meaning to something else.

Just my opinion. I don't know everything.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Woman: Hey, that's a nice shirt.
> 
> WWB: Thanks, I bought it to match your bedroom carpet.


Now, this thank you, I like.

Honor the compliment and be a c0cky flirt. Excellent.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I disagree with CeeGee on this one. Accept compliments with a thank you and move on. Honor it.
> 
> If you can turn it into a flirty exchange, great. Try not to dismiss compliments though. Accept that you're great and don't deflect the meaning to something else.
> 
> Just my opinion. I don't know everything.


I think this one would depend on the situation/woman.

My STBXW used to dig my flirty banter, some women wouldn't however.


----------



## angstire

Flirting and being confident is a turn on to women that you want to know. 

If they don't like your flirting, they're not into you (for whatever reason), move on.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Flirting and being confident is a turn on to women that you want to know.
> 
> If they don't like your flirting, they're not into you (for whatever reason), move on.


Valid point. 

If I compliment a woman and she accepts the compliment from me happily, I can assume this is a good sign, yes?


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I think this one would depend on the situation/woman.
> 
> My STBXW used to dig my flirty banter, some women wouldn't however.


Which type of woman do you want?

Do what you're comfortable with. The confidence in which you display it is what matters most.


----------



## angstire

Yes, flirting is good. Perverted is bad (until it's not).

The grey area between is large, but honestly, that's part of the fun of dating.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Valid point.
> 
> If I compliment a woman and she accepts the compliment from me happily, I can assume this is a good sign, yes?


Ahh, this is a great question.

Do you assume men and women receive compliments the same?


----------



## GotLifeBack

> Ahh, this is a great question.
> 
> Do you assume men and women receive compliments the same?


I think that compliments mean more to women, and that they wouldn't accept one from just anybody.



> Which type of woman do you want?
> 
> Do what you're comfortable with. The confidence in which you display it is what matters most.


I'd definitely go for the fun loving, flirty woman with a bit of a naughty side. 



> Yes, flirting is good. Perverted is bad (until it's not).
> 
> The grey area between is large, but honestly, that's part of the fun of dating.


Agreed. Perverted only becomes fair game once you're in a relationship with the person


----------



## angstire

Ceegee said:


> Do you assume men and women receive compliments the same?


It's different between the sexes, but more so for individuals too. This is one of those fun things about getting to know someone's sense of humor, likes and dislikes, music tastes, food tastes, etc. 

We throw stuff out there, watch their reaction and adjust.

There's likely a baseline for how men and women receive compliments and a lot of this is societal training.

I do not care for the way some people fish for compliments by denigrating themselves, "oh, I'm such a sloppy dresser, I'm lost in the kitchen, etc." This is lack of confidence and need for external validation.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I do not care for the way some people fish for compliments by denigrating themselves, "oh, I'm such a sloppy dresser, I'm lost in the kitchen, etc." This is lack of confidence and need for external validation.


I think two kinds of people do this, the people with low self-esteem that genuinely believe this to be the case, and then they will reject the compliments.

And attention seekers. I despise attention seekers.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I think that compliments mean more to women, and that they wouldn't accept one from just anybody.


Sure, but it's how they react that matters in your situation.

Body language is key.

WWB: That's a nice dress.

Woman: (Looks you in the eye, smiles a little) Thank you. I just bought it last week.(Turns back to whatever she was doing)

or

Woman: (Looks at you, smiles with teeth showing, twirls her hair) Thank you! (looks away briefly then back to you, still smiling) I just bought it last week.




> I'd definitely go for the fun loving, flirty woman with a bit of a naughty side.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. *Perverted only becomes fair game once you're in a relationship with the person*


Hmmmm


----------



## Ceegee

angstire said:


> It's different between the sexes, but more so for individuals too. This is one of those fun things about getting to know someone's sense of humor, likes and dislikes, music tastes, food tastes, etc.
> 
> We throw stuff out there, watch their reaction and adjust.
> 
> There's likely a baseline for how men and women receive compliments and a lot of this is societal training.
> 
> I do not care for the way some people fish for compliments by denigrating themselves, "oh, I'm such a sloppy dresser, I'm lost in the kitchen, etc." This is lack of confidence and need for external validation.


I was assuming we were talking about complimenting a woman with the intention of meeting her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Sure, but it's how they react that matters in your situation.
> 
> Body language is key.
> 
> WWB: That's a nice dress.
> 
> Woman: (Looks you in the eye, smiles a little) Thank you. I just bought it last week.(Turns back to whatever she was doing)
> 
> or
> 
> Woman: (Looks at you, smiles with teeth showing, twirls her hair) Thank you! (looks away briefly then back to you, still smiling) I just bought it last week.


Obviously the second scenario is the winner.

The reason I ask is because I gave the woman I saw at the weekend a few compliments, and she very happily accepted them with a big smile.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Obviously the second scenario is the winner.
> 
> The reason I ask is because I gave the woman I saw at the weekend a few compliments, and she very happily accepted them with a big smile.


Gotcha


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Gotcha


I need to (need, not the S word) stop over analysing everything about the weekend and just go with the flow.

I need to apply that to life in general, I think.


----------



## LongWalk

> Woman: Hey, that's a nice shirt.
> 
> WWB: Thanks, I bought it to match your bedroom carpet.


Good one, gotta laugh when you deliver it.

CeeGee made a comment way back about men being socialized to be doormats and women entitled. Too true. It's complicated deal civilization. The basis of all societies is control of sexual behavior. Thou shalt not wait and the end of the street in your car and run down the dude who seduced your wife when he moves the water sprinkler.

Lets face it that violent uncertain world is something we don't want to be in. Sure we still have those emotions and thoughts but we release these watching films (in which wronged alpha males slaughter their (evil) rivals or better yet the beta guy become alpha because he must and slaughters the competitors.

On top of that we have the cult of sports. The super alpha physical guys duel on Saturday and Sunday and all the beta guys watch and get excited. Wives and girlfriends either dislike it or they are fans and they are into the jocks as sex gods. NFL and college football replaces the tribal need to get all the guys together to invade some neighboring land to rape and plunder.

In short we live in a state of ideological confusion about our relationship to the natural order of things.

Marriage is such a well sold contract. We, both genders, would like to believe that it protects some right or condition in our lives: sexual exclusivity and economic union. The $25,000 spent on the wedding (average cost in the US) is just like the dowery or bride price or whatever. It's signal to the couple that they cannot mess around because the investment is so great.

The truth is the divorce rate is high and 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women. Most men and women don't measure up the figures in the media. Tiger Woods slept with IHOP waitress, but his "disgrace" hasn't stopped him from getting Lindsey Vonn into an LTR. 

The only way to make sense of this stuff on a personal level is to have had a good upbringing, good genes, etc. But we don't all have that stuff, so we come to TAM to learn late in the game. Better late than never.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I need to (need, not the S word) stop over analysing everything about the weekend and just go with the flow.
> 
> I need to apply that to life in general, I think.


As a fellow over analyzer myself, yes you might want to stop doing that and just go with the flow. Perhaps apply it to some things in life. It's hard though and it takes time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> As a fellow over analyzer myself, yes you might want to stop doing that and just go with the flow. Perhaps apply it to some things in life. It's hard though and it takes time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I've always been an over analyser unfortunately, it's a tough habit to break, but I'll get there I'm sure 

So, today is day number 8 of full no contact - The 1 week milestone was yesterday. Strangely, the fact that it was a whole week made me feel worse than 8 days, maybe because I'd set it as a milestone in my mind.

Either way, I had a pretty rough night last night. Lately my journal entries have been trending towards confident and assertive. Last night's entry came across as a little sad and needy. I was pretty sad about it all, there are moments when I still can't believe that this has happened.

I guess that's all part of this rollercoaster ride that we're all strapped in to until the end. I just hope that when it does end I'm not the guy that gets straight back in the queue to do it all over again, but if I am, at least I'll know what to expect.

I still feel pretty sad today and like I want to reach out to her again - I'm not going to because it would be a pointless endeavour, but I feel like I want to. I know it will pass though, and I'll sit tight and stay strong until it does.

*I'm better than her, I deserve better than her*. This is becoming something of a mantra for me lately. Unfortunately, even though I know this, part of me still wants her.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I've always been an over analyser unfortunately, it's a tough habit to break, but I'll get there I'm sure
> 
> So, today is day number 8 of full no contact - The 1 week milestone was yesterday. Strangely, the fact that it was a whole week made me feel worse than 8 days, maybe because I'd set it as a milestone in my mind.
> 
> Either way, I had a pretty rough night last night. Lately my journal entries have been trending towards confident and assertive. Last night's entry came across as a little sad and needy. I was pretty sad about it all, there are moments when I still can't believe that this has happened.
> 
> I guess that's all part of this rollercoaster ride that we're all strapped in to until the end. I just hope that when it does end I'm not the guy that gets straight back in the queue to do it all over again, but if I am, at least I'll know what to expect.
> 
> I still feel pretty sad today and like I want to reach out to her again - I'm not going to because it would be a pointless endeavour, but I feel like I want to. I know it will pass though, and I'll sit tight and stay strong until it does.
> 
> *I'm better than her, I deserve better than her*. This is becoming something of a mantra for me lately. Unfortunately, even though I know this, part of me still wants her.


go do something for yourself today. Massage, a good outfit and a haircut...you get the idea.
These days the old you is sad, I really think it best to step up the new you with purpose. get ready for next time you run into a new gorgeous woman that seems flirty, get a new pair of shoes..anything to treat yourself. a reminder that you are concentrating on you. 
hope your day gets better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> go do something for yourself today. Massage, a good outfit and a haircut...you get the idea.
> These days the old you is sad, I really think it best to step up the new you with purpose. get ready for next time you run into a new gorgeous woman that seems flirty, get a new pair of shoes..anything to treat yourself. a reminder that you are concentrating on you.
> hope your day gets better.


I treated myself to a nice gruesome movie to watch tonight while I have a few beers with the boys . That should take my mind off of things. I don't have a whole lot of money to treat myself to anything much more than that right now - spent way too much at the weekend. Worthwhile though 

I'm really missing her today. I miss her company, her affection - I'm going to stop listing things there, otherwise this could be the longest post in the history of TAM.

The conflict within me between emotion and logic is absolutely exhausting. I know that she's no good for me, and that I deserve better. But my heart is screaming "Just contact her, try to work things out". I'm not going to because I _know_ that it wouldn't help at all. 

The weekends are always the hardest, and I had such a good weekend last weekend. This one is going to suck though . 

I've just gotta keep on keeping on, grit my teeth and push on through - cause I know this feeling will pass, it always does.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I treated myself to a nice gruesome movie to watch tonight while I have a few beers with the boys . That should take my mind off of things. I don't have a whole lot of money to treat myself to anything much more than that right now - spent way too much at the weekend. Worthwhile though
> 
> I'm really missing her today. I miss her company, her affection - I'm going to stop listing things there, otherwise this could be the longest post in the history of TAM.
> 
> The conflict within me between emotion and logic is absolutely exhausting. I know that she's no good for me, and that I deserve better. But my heart is screaming "Just contact her, try to work things out". I'm not going to because I _know_ that it wouldn't help at all.
> 
> The weekends are always the hardest, and I had such a good weekend last weekend. This one is going to suck though .
> 
> I've just gotta keep on keeping on, grit my teeth and push on through - cause I know this feeling will pass, it always does.


Hang in there. It will pass. It will get better. And try to think positively about the weekend. Who knows, maybe it turns out to be a great weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Hang in there. It will pass. It will get better. And try to think positively about the weekend. Who knows, maybe it turns out to be a great weekend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It could turn out to be a great weekend - I guess I'll find out soon enough! 

Really I just need to try my hardest to stay occupied and not dwell on things. I'd quite like to go out and try meet some women, and spend some time in female company, but my friends are either all being anti-social, or are as broke as I am right now! 

I guess there's always the weekend after next - I'm going out for halloween. Lots of women will be about, dressed in very little  happy times. The women will mostly be university students too .

Beer will make everything better once I get off work .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> It could turn out to be a great weekend - I guess I'll find out soon enough!
> 
> Really I just need to try my hardest to stay occupied and not dwell on things. I'd quite like to go out and try meet some women, and spend some time in female company, but my friends are either all being anti-social, or are as broke as I am right now!
> 
> I guess there's always the weekend after next - I'm going out for halloween. Lots of women will be about, dressed in very little  happy times. The women will mostly be university students too .
> 
> Beer will make everything better once I get off work .


Why don't you look for things to do that are not that expensive, and if you see a lady there that catches your eye, say hello and smile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Why don't you look for things to do that are not that expensive, and if you see a lady there that catches your eye, say hello and smile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess I could do this yeah, my problem is I need a beer or two to help with my shyness generally! .

It can't hurt to try and come up with some ideas though!

I'm starting to feel a bit better than I did earlier, maybe it's because I only have 30 minutes of work left, and I know once I get home my friends will keep me sane! :smthumbup:

Shame they aren't female .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I guess I could do this yeah, my problem is I need a beer or two to help with my shyness generally! .
> 
> It can't hurt to try and come up with some ideas though!
> 
> I'm starting to feel a bit better than I did earlier, maybe it's because I only have 30 minutes of work left, and I know once I get home my friends will keep me sane! :smthumbup:
> 
> Shame they aren't female .


Lucky you. I have 5 more work hours to go.

I am sure if you google things to do in your area this weekend, you can find some things that are not that expensive.

Try to say Hi to a girl without 1 beer, see how it goes. It's just hi. And she could just become a friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Lucky you. I have 5 more work hours to go.
> 
> I am sure if you google things to do in your area this weekend, you can find some things that are not that expensive.
> 
> Try to say Hi to a girl without 1 beer, see how it goes. It's just hi. And she could just become a friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm guessing we may be in different time zones?

That's a good idea, there's quite a lot of free/cheap historical stuff to do around the area I live in, and I do like an intellectual and well cultured lady, so it may be a good idea to check these places out!

Hmm, that sounds kind of scary!


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm guessing we may be in different time zones?
> 
> That's a good idea, there's quite a lot of free/cheap historical stuff to do around the area I live in, and I do like an intellectual and well cultured lady, so it may be a good idea to check these places out!
> 
> Hmm, that sounds kind of scary!


It appears we are in different time zones. Or could just be we have different work schedules. Maybe you work at night and I work in the day or vice versa.

I have a friend who says that when you are getting out of your comfort zone you are really just growing. I think that's a good way of looking at it when getting out of your comfort zone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I'd definitely go for the fun loving, flirty woman with a bit of a naughty side.





WantWifeBack said:


> That's a good idea, there's quite a lot of free/cheap historical stuff to do around the area I live in, and I do like an intellectual and well cultured lady, so it may be a good idea to check these places out!


A little early for threesomes. 

I'm sure there will be those who disagree with this, but I see no problem with a little liquid courage.

Especially for someone whose confidence has been eroded over years of emotional abuse. 

Just don't overdo it. Bad choices would not be good for your healing.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> It appears we are in different time zones. Or could just be we have different work schedules. Maybe you work at night and I work in the day or vice versa.
> 
> I have a friend who says that when you are getting out of your comfort zone you are really just growing. I think that's a good way of looking at it when getting out of your comfort zone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I'm in the U.K and I work a 9-5 .

That is a good way of looking at it, in fact the last few times I've left my comfort zone, I've actually had a really good time!



> A little early for threesomes.
> 
> I'm sure there will be those who disagree with this, but I see no problem with a little liquid courage.
> 
> Especially for someone whose confidence has been eroded over years of emotional abuse.
> 
> Just don't overdo it. Bad choices would not be good for your healing.


It's *never* too early for threesomes. 

I don't ever drink to excess, just get nicely buzzed, it allows me to be more laid back and care less what people think of me. I'm a very charismatic chap after a couple of beers! Women tend to be drawn to me when I'm that guy. I want to be that guy all the time, I'm getting there, slowly.

Emotional abuse... I guess that's what it was really. I've been toying with the idea that she could have been labelled an "emotional abuser" but now, I'm almost certain of it. I don't like thinking of her that way though.

Luckily, I had a pretty wild time as a teenager, I know how to drink and retain my senses these days .


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> It's *never* too early for threesomes.


hahahahahaha


----------



## Ceegee

> *I'm a very charismatic chap after a couple of beers*! Women tend to be drawn to me when I'm that guy. *I want to be that guy all the time*, I'm getting there, slowly.



Just be careful.

Many people going through what we are going through fall into the alcoholism trap.


----------



## Ceegee

Read this checklist and see how many abusive traits you see in your wife. In yourself.

The 15 Characteristics of Verbal Abuse | Married to Mr Mean

My X fits all 15.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Just be careful.
> 
> Many people going through what we are going through fall into the alcoholism trap.


Yeah - I know, I won't fall in to the trap don't worry! I can't drink often anyway .

What I meant by "I want to be that guy all the time" is, I'd like to be that comfortable with myself that I can be that guy without a few beers .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Read this checklist and see how many abusive traits you see in your wife. In yourself.
> 
> The 15 Characteristics of Verbal Abuse | Married to Mr Mean
> 
> My X fits all 15.


Yeah, I've seen all 15 at some point or another too. But I'm not going to lie, some of those fit me as well.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I've seen all 15 at some point or another too. But I'm not going to lie, some of those fit me as well.


Codependents take it until they snap.

They're then capable of big time rage.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Codependents take it until they snap.
> 
> They're then capable of big time rage.


Being a codependent myself, this is very true. I'm generally a calm or level headed guy, but when I lose it, I *lose* it.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, I'm in the U.K and I work a 9-5 .
> 
> That is a good way of looking at it, in fact the last few times I've left my comfort zone, I've actually had a really good time!
> 
> 
> 
> It's *never* too early for threesomes.
> 
> I don't ever drink to excess, just get nicely buzzed, it allows me to be more laid back and care less what people think of me. I'm a very charismatic chap after a couple of beers! Women tend to be drawn to me when I'm that guy. I want to be that guy all the time, I'm getting there, slowly.
> 
> Emotional abuse... I guess that's what it was really. I've been toying with the idea that she could have been labelled an "emotional abuser" but now, I'm almost certain of it. I don't like thinking of her that way though.
> 
> Luckily, I had a pretty wild time as a teenager, I know how to drink and retain my senses these days .


I am in NY and have a 9-5 as well. So there is the time difference for you.

Now what is this business about threesomes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Being a codependent myself, this is very true. I'm generally a calm or level headed guy, but when I lose it, I *lose* it.


Me too. Working on it.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Being a codependent myself, this is very true. I'm generally a calm or level headed guy, but when I lose it, I *lose* it.


That's why you have to get the #3's out of your life.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> That's why you have to get the #3's out of your life.



I don't think we've covered #3's in this thread yet.

WWB -

You'll read about them in DeMello's Awareness if you haven't already.

#1 is something you do for yourself. 

#2 is something you do for someone else because you want to out of the kindness of your heart. 

#3 is something you do that you don't want to do in order to make someone love you more or avoid conflict. You feel bad about yourself.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> That's why you have to get the #3's out of your life.


I also like Mavs brick theory.



Mavash. said:


> For a long time I considered myself a magnet for dysfunctional people. And then I got it.
> 
> Those things I once considered subtle are now glaringly obvious.
> 
> Another thing is the story of bricks.
> 
> All relationships have conflict. Every time someone does something that bothers you it's a brick between you. Could be something small like showing up late for a date or hateful words said in an argument.
> 
> Most people to avoid conflict let these things go not realizing there is now a brick between you. Every instance adds another brick until now you have a wall and you wonder what happened to the intimacy.
> 
> Deal with the bricks each and every one. Don't let them pile up. Learn to deal with conflict effectively. Communicate your hurts and your needs. Stand up for yourself. Speak up. Don't let fear stop you. Tell that person you're upset that they are late. Tell them it's not okay to talk to you that way.
> 
> Make this a habit in all your relationships and you will avoid years of misery.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> I don't think we've covered #3's in this thread yet.
> 
> WWB -
> 
> You'll read about them in DeMello's Awareness if you haven't already.
> 
> #1 is something you do for yourself.
> 
> #2 is something you do for someone else because you want to out of the kindness of your heart.
> 
> #3 is something you do that you don't want to do in order to make someone love you more or avoid conflict. You feel bad about yourself.


WWB,

How many times did she do or say something outrageous and you made that "internal bargain" with yourself to keep your mouth shut, swallow hard, and cave in to "make her happy"?


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> How many times did she do or say something outrageous and you made that "internal bargain" with yourself to keep your mouth shut, swallow hard, and cave in to "make her happy"?



Like this....




WantWifeBack said:


> The first time we split up, and she very quickly got involved with another man - after they got physical, she wanted to reconcile. Can you guess who did all the work? Can you guess who was the one to apologise? Bingo - Me. She made me feel like I'd pushed her to do what she did, and I believed that. Seriously, what the f*ck.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Like this....


Exactly like that.

She pushes pushes and pushes until you overreact... then you end up apologizing to her for what she did.

Lather, rinse, repeat


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> How many times did she do or say something outrageous and you made that "internal bargain" with yourself to keep your mouth shut, swallow hard, and cave in to "make her happy"?


I did that for 2 years. Then I realized nothing will make her happy and grew my ball's back!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> How many times did she do or say something outrageous and you made that "internal bargain" with yourself to keep your mouth shut, swallow hard, and cave in to "make her happy"?


Countless, countless times. I wish I hadn't. This breeds resentment over time. I'm starting to realise just how much I resent my STBXW.

I need to learn that it's okay to say no to someone if I don't want to do something. Whilst I can apply this to any other person, I couldn't apply it to my wife. She'd sulk and treat me poorly until I caved in. There are a lot of examples of this throughout the relationship.

I'm struggling with NC again today - I really do miss her. Some days I want nothing more than to talk to her, other days I could quite happily go about my day as if she didn't exist. It's weird. 

Life goes on though. One day I'll find the right one , as we all will.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I went back over your thread and am confused about one point. In your earlier posts now 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 24 etc it was mainly about her not being able to cope with your jealousy, still being in love with you, fantasising about you sexually, sad about NC etc and then suddenly in the space of 8 days it went to she is lying beside her new man (post 38 I think). That sudden change/development threw me the first time I read it as it seemed to be sudden etc. Was this new man the one she went out with on "not a date" ? How did this suddenly go from what it was to this ? Just confused.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Countless, countless times. I wish I hadn't. This breeds resentment over time. I'm starting to realise just how much I resent my STBXW.
> 
> I need to learn that it's okay to say no to someone if I don't want to do something. Whilst I can apply this to any other person, I couldn't apply it to my wife. She'd sulk and treat me poorly until I caved in. There are a lot of examples of this throughout the relationship.
> 
> I'm struggling with NC again today - I really do miss her. Some days I want nothing more than to talk to her, other days I could quite happily go about my day as if she didn't exist. It's weird.
> 
> Life goes on though. One day I'll find the right one , as we all will.


Find yourself first.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Countless, countless times. I wish I hadn't. This breeds resentment over time. I'm starting to realise just how much I resent my STBXW.
> 
> I need to learn that it's okay to say no to someone if I don't want to do something. Whilst I can apply this to any other person, I couldn't apply it to my wife. She'd sulk and treat me poorly until I caved in. There are a lot of examples of this throughout the relationship.
> 
> I'm struggling with NC again today - I really do miss her. Some days I want nothing more than to talk to her, other days I could quite happily go about my day as if she didn't exist. It's weird.
> 
> Life goes on though. One day I'll find the right one , as we all will.


All good stuff here WWB, except that last sentence.

No is an excellent word. Use it. Otherwise resentment will build.

There is no "one". There are lots of women out there we could partner with, for decades or a couple years or six months. Be really happy with them and then move on. I would like to find one woman to hang out with for the rest of my life, but it might not happen that way.

But if you get happy with yourself, the woman part doesn't matter as much and is easier. Having an SO is the frosting on an otherwise excellent life. Not necessary, but sure adds a lot.


----------



## GotLifeBack

manfromlamancha said:


> I went back over your thread and am confused about one point. In your earlier posts now 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 24 etc it was mainly about her not being able to cope with your jealousy, still being in love with you, fantasising about you sexually, sad about NC etc and then suddenly in the space of 8 days it went to she is lying beside her new man (post 38 I think). That sudden change/development threw me the first time I read it as it seemed to be sudden etc. Was this new man the one she went out with on "not a date" ? How did this suddenly go from what it was to this ? Just confused.


The "new man" was a lie to get me to "back off" in her words. At least that's what she says. It could have been true, doesn't change my situation much right now so I'm not dwelling on it.

I'm not entirely sure how it suddenly went from what it was to this, I guess she just pushed me too far and I'm done taking all her sh*t.



> Find yourself first.


Definitely.



> All good stuff here WWB, except that last sentence.
> 
> No is an excellent word. Use it. Otherwise resentment will build.
> 
> There is no "one". There are lots of women out there we could partner with, for decades or a couple years or six months. Be really happy with them and then move on. I would like to find one woman to hang out with for the rest of my life, but it might not happen that way.
> 
> But if you get happy with yourself, the woman part doesn't matter as much and is easier. Having an SO is the frosting on an otherwise excellent life. Not necessary, but sure adds a lot.


Yeah I guess you're right. I'm in the process of getting happy with myself, but after years of low-self esteem, low confidence and being a Nice Guy, it's pretty difficult at times.

I'm really struggling again today with the NC, with all of it actually. I'm not entirely sure I'm ready to 100% give up on my wife. I'm conflicted between my head and my heart. Today is day 11 of NC, I never imagined not speaking to this woman for this long. Makes me kind of sad to think about it . I really miss her fiercely.

Last night I was thinking about maybe contacting her in the future to see where things stand and if anything has changed between us, but then I thought if I do that and she's with someone else, I don't quite know how I'd handle that. 

I've really got to try my best to not contact her today, but it's only 08:43 and I'm already struggling with it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also, a week ago I started smoking cigarettes again.... I gave myself a week to just do whatever I wanted without questioning consequences. It was a fun week, but today I find myself wanting a cigarette. I'm considering buying a packet at lunch and gradually cutting down on them.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Be careful mate. I've been there - the gradually cutting down actually becomes gradually ramping up. Sorry you are going through this but you sound strong so stay strong and things will definitely work out for you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

manfromlamancha said:


> Be careful mate. I've been there - the gradually cutting down actually becomes gradually ramping up. Sorry you are going through this but you sound strong so stay strong and things will definitely work out for you.


Yeah, it's a risk :/ I actually find that cigarettes help a lot to cope with the stress and anxiety. I'd actually been quit for 5 and a half years, I guess the stress of everything has triggered a relapse .

I think I'll get a pack at lunch time, I feel like I need it today - this is probably the worst day so far . I'm not even sure why that is either, the rollercoaster I suppose.


----------



## LongWalk

WantWifeBack said:


> Also, a week ago I started smoking cigarettes again.... I gave myself a week to just do whatever I wanted without questioning consequences. It was a fun week, but today I find myself wanting a cigarette. I'm considering buying a packet at lunch and gradually cutting down on them.


Smoking causes impotence. You can find all sorts of signs that smoking damages your body long before something like cancer occurs.

Go to the gym and become an endogenous morphine addict. Take up cross fit or something that will give you enormous confidence.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Smoking causes impotence. You can find all sorts of signs that smoking damages your body long before something like cancer occurs.
> 
> Go to the gym and become an endogenous morphine addict. Take up cross fit or something that will give you enormous confidence.


Yeah I am aware of the risks  I will quit after this packet, at the moment it's just a nice way to go chill out somewhere quietly and for the nicotine to have a soothing affect on my brain. I know that it isn't a sustainable long term habit, I smoked for 6 years, and had quit for almost as many. 

I am joining the gym once I have been paid - this will be really good for me, and I'm looking forward to it. A good friend of mine happens to be a personal trainer, so he's going to train with me .


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I am aware of the risks  I will quit after this packet, at the moment it's just a nice way to go chill out somewhere quietly and for the nicotine to have a soothing affect on my brain. I know that it isn't a sustainable long term habit, I smoked for 6 years, and had quit for almost as many.
> 
> I am joining the gym once I have been paid - this will be really good for me, and I'm looking forward to it. A good friend of mine happens to be a personal trainer, so he's going to train with me .


Slippery slope...

Just this one pack.

Well, one more pack - I just won't mention this one in my post on TAM.

I'll just smoke when I go out and drink.

The easiest time to quit is now.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Slippery slope...
> 
> Just this one pack.
> 
> Well, one more pack - I just won't mention this one in my post on TAM.
> 
> I'll just smoke when I go out and drink.
> 
> The easiest time to quit is now.


It is a slippery slope, but I'm able to exercise self control. I will manage to quit again. I agree the longer I smoke for the harder it will be to quit - but I'll do it.

Last time I quit I did it for my STBXW, she hated it - in a weird kind of way I want to quit again to prove to myself that I can do it for me, and nobody else, and I will . I should have never started again but I had an intense craving for cigarettes a week and a bit ago. My doctor thinks it's a stress induced relapse.

EDIT: Besides, I know how disgusting smoking is - not many women find smokers attractive.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> It is a slippery slope, but I'm able to exercise self control. I will manage to quit again. I agree the longer I smoke for the harder it will be to quit - but I'll do it.
> 
> Last time I quit I did it for my STBXW, she hated it - in a weird kind of way I want to quit again to prove to myself that I can do it for me, and nobody else, and I will . I should have never started again but I had an intense craving for cigarettes a week and a bit ago. My doctor thinks it's a stress induced relapse.
> 
> EDIT: Besides, I know how disgusting smoking is - not many women find smokers attractive.


You've said it and I believe you.

But the importance bears repeating; do it for yourself.

If you don't you'll never really quit. You're the only one that you have to live with the rest of your life.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> You've said it and I believe you.
> 
> But the importance bears repeating; do it for yourself.
> 
> If you don't you'll never really quit. You're the only one that you have to live with the rest of your life.


Yeah, I didn't do it for myself before, not really. I did it because she told me she wouldn't stay with me if I didn't. I appreciate that quitting smoking is a good thing, but emotionally blackmailing me in to it was the wrong way to go.

I'll do it and i'll do it for myself, just like everything else I'm going to do in the coming months .

Got a driving lesson booked for Saturday, and have been looking at cars, may get one when I've been paid for extra motivation! 

Also, I've been invited to go stay with my female friend again at some point over the Christmas break, which will be great as it's going to be a difficult time.


----------



## LongWalk

Look at your finger nails. Look a child's finger nails. Examine a healthy non-smoking adult's finger nails. You should be able to identify the permanent tissue damage to your body.

My brother whose a doctor told me about this. He refuses to certain operations (foot and ankle) on certain patients because they smoke. They recovery is slower or doesn't happen. 

I will always be a nicotine addict but I have been clean for over 10 years. If I stopped exercising. I would probably start smoking again. My cousin is dying of lung cancer. Her daughter took her on a Danube River cruise. Not much fun doing fun things as the clock races to the finish. Her daughter, who is couple of years younger than me, went cold turkey.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Look at your finger nails. Look a child's finger nails. Examine a healthy non-smoking adult's finger nails. You should be able to identify the permanent tissue damage to your body.
> 
> My brother whose a doctor told me about this. He refuses to certain operations (foot and ankle) on certain patients because they smoke. They recovery is slower or doesn't happen.
> 
> I will always be a nicotine addict but I have been clean for over 10 years. If I stopped exercising. I would probably start smoking again. My cousin is dying of lung cancer. Her daughter took her on a Danube River cruise. Not much fun doing fun things as the clock races to the finish. Her daughter, who is couple of years younger than me, went cold turkey.


My fingernails have ridges in them, maybe it's because of smoking?

I'm going to cold turkey it soon, I really should never have started again but I was overwhelmed by a craving.... and every time I get a bit stressed about the STBXW I always want a cig at the moment .

I'll get there though, I've not been smoking heavily, less than 5 a day I'd say. It shouldn't be too bad to go cold turkey, not like last time when I was smoking 30 a day, then I halved it and stopped altogether.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, maintaining no contact still, even though I really want to talk to her . I never thought I could miss a person as much as I miss her. It's extremely frustrating and extremely tiring. I'm still unable to sleep well, I'm still unable to focus at work. I still have times when I just want to isolate myself and cry, and I keep thinking about her, wondering what/who she's doing. I need the roller coaster to shift again, because I'm exhausted. 

I keep catching myself thinking about how NC is affecting her, but then I try my best to put that thought aside. Half of me thinks she's suffering as much as I am and the other half thinks she doesn't even care. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground in my thinking on this. There's no point in going over and over this in my head though, because I'll never know. Even if I asked her and she said that it was pure hell, how would I know she wasn't lying?

Saturday will be our 6 year anniversary (of becoming a couple, not wedding). I'm expecting her to contact me on that day. Part of me wants to send her a card or flowers, just so she knows I'm thinking of her, but I'm sure she probably knows that anyway.

Feeling very emotionally unstable today .

I miss my wife fiercely.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Feeling very emotionally unstable today .
> 
> I miss my wife fiercely.


And now after going through everything she's put me through in my head, in the past as well as in our separation; I actually hate her. 

Imagine I'll be all sad and missing her again by lunchtime .

Please keep your arms and legs inside the car at all times.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Imagine I'll be all sad and missing her again by lunchtime .


This - I had to go out on my lunch break and was really worried about bumping in to her. Luckily I didn't.

Still, feeling low again now!


----------



## angstire

Rollercoaster brother, all you can do is ride it. Don't try to get off, don't get stuck, just ride and embrace the pain. It will heal you and it will get less. I promise.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Rollercoaster brother, all you can do is ride it. Don't try to get off, don't get stuck, just ride and embrace the pain. It will heal you and it will get less. I promise.


Yeah, it sure is.

Right now I'm feeling like I want to send her a letter with everything that I want to say to her, I don't know maybe it'll help me find closure or something.

I'm really feeling like I'm not ready to give up on her today, but any attempt I make to draw her back in is just going to drive her further away.

It's so weird both intensely wanting someone back in your life, but knowing that they aren't good for you. I sometimes catch myself thinking that if she changes I'd take her back, but I can't force her to, I don't want to force her to. That's down to her at the end of the day.


----------



## angstire

It's like an addiction. The detachment takes a while. Right now your brain is wired to her and that software doesn't disappear overnight.

If you want to write to her, write the letter, but don't send it. Get it out. The longing, hate, love, loss, anger, distaste, etc. It will help.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> It's like an addiction. The detachment takes a while. Right now your brain is wired to her and that software doesn't disappear overnight.
> 
> If you want to write to her, write the letter, but don't send it. Get it out. The longing, hate, love, loss, anger, distaste, etc. It will help.


I write a letter to her every night in my journal, I think tonight's entry is going to be a long one (I wish I didn't have such a dirty mind, I couldn't help but giggle like a teenager as I typed that).

This morning I was feeling the loss, then mid-morning I was fuming with hatred, and now I'm longing and feeling the love - I want so badly to reach out to her.

It plays out so nicely in my mind, I contact her, tell her that I still miss her and love her and I want her to come home. She agrees excitedly and hangs up the phone, shortly after she bursts through the door crying tears of joy, and sprints up to me and jumps in to my arms.

In reality, she'd either ignore the call, or just crush me again (emotionally I mean, she's not heavy) .

I think maybe I need to get out of the house tonight, but it's difficult enough dragging my friends out on weekends, so a Tuesday night is going to be tough.

Maybe I'll go for a run or go cycling.


----------



## angstire

It's good see humor in your situation. It's serious business, but seeing the lighter side is a good sign that you're not consumed.

I've played that same fantasy. Don't let is sway what you do in RL.

Run or cycling sounds good. How are you doing on the cancer sticks?


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> It's good see humor in your situation. It's serious business, but seeing the lighter side is a good sign that you're not consumed.
> 
> I've played that same fantasy. Don't let is sway what you do in RL.
> 
> Run or cycling sounds good. How are you doing on the cancer sticks?


I can always find humour - it's one of my many talents .

Yeah, I've played out many reconciliation fantasies. Including several in which she wants to R and I've moved on and I cooly decline. Others where she wants to R and I laugh in her face .

It's a little cold for cycling but maybe I'll go for a run. I'm not doing too badly, I've only smoked two today so far, and the working day is almost over.

I seem to be shifting back to a "happy" state, in which I just shrug her off and I think to myself "Ah well, her loss". These are my favourite states at the moment, let's hope it lasts.


----------



## angstire

"Her loss" is an ok crutch for now, but try to reframe it about you, as you can. "Your freedom, your gain, your lessons learned" all sound better to me. Less her as you can, and more you. It will rebuild your outlook on life and your confidence as you go forth.


----------



## angstire

Oh and quit the cigs.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> "Her loss" is an ok crutch for now, but try to reframe it about you, as you can. "Your freedom, your gain, your lessons learned" all sound better to me. Less her as you can, and more you. It will rebuild your outlook on life and your confidence as you go forth.


You're right - I do have everything to gain right now. I'll make an effort to think of it this way.

"Her loss" implies resentment and that I want her to feel as heart broken as I. And that's true to an extent, but when I'm at the place where I no longer care either way what she feels, then it's when I'll start seeing it as "My gain".



> Oh and quit the cigs.


Working on it, and caffeine again.


----------



## hopefulbuthonest

Resentment will keep you from moving on. You can feel like you have moved on and still harbor those feelings. They will pick the most inopportune time to pop up. Sometimes it is better to forgive but not totally forget. That way you aren't bound to repeat your history.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WWB, I don't know if you have said before, but have you gone to IC?


----------



## GotLifeBack

hopefulbuthonest said:


> Resentment will keep you from moving on. You can feel like you have moved on and still harbor those feelings. They will pick the most inopportune time to pop up. Sometimes it is better to forgive but not totally forget. That way you aren't bound to repeat your history.


I couldn't agree more. I won't ever forget what has happened, the good or the bad.



> WWB, I don't know if you have said before, but have you gone to IC?


Yep I am KS - currently attending one session per week. Mostly I talk about my STBXW but I'm hoping to get to the root of my self-esteem issues.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Yep I am KS - currently attending one session per week. Mostly I talk about my STBXW but I'm hoping to get to the root of my self-esteem issues.


Good! I'm sorry for all the hurt your STBXW has caused you. It will get better though.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Good! I'm sorry for all the hurt your STBXW has caused you. It will get better though.


I'm sure it will, it already is I guess, but still a long way to go. We've only been separated 6 weeks as of yesterday. 

On Thursday we won't have spoken for two weeks .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure it will, it already is I guess, but still a long way to go. We've only been separated 6 weeks as of yesterday.
> 
> On Thursday we won't have spoken for two weeks .


When you think about the 2 weeks think about all the progress you have made. All the good times you have had. All the people you have befriended. These are moments that you wouldn't have had if she was around.


----------



## hopefulbuthonest

I didn't make it a week of NC... Starting over. It's not an easy thing. But at least you know you have people who will support you here and are going through similar things. makes it easier to talk when you know people have an understanding.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> When you think about the 2 weeks think about all the progress you have made. All the good times you have had. All the people you have befriended. These are moments that you wouldn't have had if she was around.


As I said on your thread - everything happens for a reason. I have done a lot of fun things over the last two weeks .

I was just outside work having a smoke and I saw the same model and colour car we had drive past (now her car)... not sure if it was her or not, cause I didn't see the plate. I hate seeing those cars. If it was her and she saw me smoking, I'd expect some fury to be coming my way shortly. She may not have even looked down the road.

Guess I'll find out soon enough!


----------



## GotLifeBack

hopefulbuthonest said:


> I didn't make it a week of NC... Starting over. It's not an easy thing. But at least you know you have people who will support you here and are going through similar things. makes it easier to talk when you know people have an understanding.


It sure does - and NC is so tough. I've given up a lot of things in my life, nicotine, cannabis, my party lifestyle, my friends, some hobbies that I loved.

Giving up my wife is 1,000 times more difficult than that. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> As I said on your thread - everything happens for a reason. I have done a lot of fun things over the last two weeks .
> 
> I was just outside work having a smoke and I saw the same model and colour car we had drive past (now her car)... not sure if it was her or not, cause I didn't see the plate. I hate seeing those cars. If it was her and she saw me smoking, I'd expect some fury to be coming my way shortly. She may not have even looked down the road.
> 
> Guess I'll find out soon enough!


One day you will see the car model and not even bat an eye or think about her. I look forward to that day for you my friend.


----------



## jeffthechef

WWB, we're virtually on the same separation schedule. Stbx left 6 weeks ago. I don't have the benefit of NC though, kids an all. I realized that I miss the comfort and obvious perks of the relationship, more than her specifically. Being alone really sucks. It sucks because we are not happy with just ourselves. We all need to find contentment in being alone. Only then can we truly be okay. Until then, we will depend on them to validate us, by choosing us. Marriage is the ultimate illusion of control, comfort and security, and we know this. But, that comfort and joy of being wanted is so nourishing, and blinding. It puts us to sleep. 

It's time to wake up.

I'm with you WWB, and we will fight on. There is no other option.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> It sure does - and NC is so tough. I've given up a lot of things in my life, nicotine, cannabis, my party lifestyle, my friends, some hobbies that I loved.
> 
> Giving up my wife is 1,000 times more difficult than that. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.


Keep plowing through this WWB. I know it is hard to not contact your wife but it is for the best and it will get easier as time passes. You are doing much better than I was at 6 weeks. I'm approaching month 5 and things are still rough but getting better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> One day you will see the car model and not even bat an eye or think about her. I look forward to that day for you my friend.


I don't know.... I don't feel like that'll ever happen. I hope you're right though .



> WWB, we're virtually on the same separation schedule. Stbx left 6 weeks ago. I don't have the benefit of NC though, kids an all. I realized that I miss the comfort and obvious perks of the relationship, more than her specifically. Being alone really sucks. It sucks because we are not happy with just ourselves. We all need to find contentment in being alone. Only then can we truly be okay. Until then, we will depend on them to validate us, by choosing us. Marriage is the ultimate illusion of control, comfort and security, and we know this. But, that comfort and joy of being wanted is so nourishing, and blinding. It puts us to sleep.
> 
> It's time to wake up.
> 
> I'm with you WWB, and we will fight on. There is no other option.


Yeah, I'm not so good at being alone, I'm getting better though, I think.

Marriage is an illusion. I married my wife fully expecting that was it, that I'd spend my life with her, and I was overjoyed at the thought. Nothing in life is sacred anymore, and unfortunately marriage can be walked away from just as easily as any other relationship it seems.

It is time to wake up, but I'm not a morning person . But you're right, there is no other choice, so we do what we must to get through this.



> Keep plowing through this WWB. I know it is hard to not contact your wife but it is for the best and it will get easier as time passes. You are doing much better than I was at 6 weeks. I'm approaching month 5 and things are still rough but getting better.


Believe me, things are still pretty rough for me. They have improved since I removed my wife from the equation, I guess, at least from an anxiety point of view. I still miss her intensely though, but I need to learn that she's gone, that woman is gone.

It also occurred to me last night that she never really was my wife, she was in law, but not in spirit, because she doesn't understand what it means to be a wife. I'm not sure if that thought is comforting or if it makes things worse.

In other news, I received a random message on facebook last night from a girl I hooked up with at a party about 7 or 8 years ago. The attention was flattering, I felt pretty pimpin' .

Still, I wouldn't go there if my life depended on it, but that's not the point.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> In other news, I received a random message on facebook last night from a girl I hooked up with at a party about 7 or 8 years ago. The attention was flattering, I felt pretty pimpin' .
> 
> Still, I wouldn't go there if my life depended on it, but that's not the point.


I forgot to mention that this woman is an acquaintance of my STBXW - they aren't close friends by any stretch, but they met up a couple of times in the last year.

There's a slim chance that I could be being interrogated, she's too clever to pick one of her close friends to do it. 

There's also a slim chance that my ex was there with her. The conversation ended very abruptly. 

I didn't say anything other than general chat, and even kept that vague .


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm very much feeling like I want to make one last attempt to R with my wife. With our anniversary approaching, it's going to be so difficult to not reach out one more time.

I still love her fiercely, and I think I need to try again because I fear I'll never forgive myself if I don't.

I'm so sick of this roller coaster ride. So tired of it all.


----------



## LongWalk

If you approach trying to R, it will just come off as needy and hasten the evaporation of any feelings she has for you. She is probably seeing other men and will never return.

Your best chance of making an impression on her is to get into good physical shape and start socializing.

Are you still friends on FB? Doesn't matter if you leave your photos public shell see them. Work on yourself. If I were young and did not have sport passion, I would take up Cross Fit.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> If you approach trying to R, it will just come off as needy and hasten the evaporation of any feelings she has for you. She is probably seeing other men and will never return.
> 
> Your best chance of making an impression on her is to get into good physical shape and start socializing.
> 
> Are you still friends on FB? Doesn't matter if you leave your photos public shell see them. Work on yourself. If I were young and did not have sport passion, I would take up Cross Fit.


I know how it will come off, but I can't help but feel like I need to try again for my own peace of mind. It's really driving me crazy.

We aren't friends on facebook and she has de-activated her account. I have also changed the spelling of my name so she can't find me easily.

I don't know, I just really miss her and I think about all the good times we shared and how in love we once were. I want all of that back .

I really hope I can be strong enough to not try again, but will I be able to live with myself if I don't?


----------



## GotLifeBack

It's so frustrating - I know exactly what the outcome of any attempt would be, and I know that I'd just end up being hurt all over again.

So why do I feel so compelled to do it?


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> It's so frustrating - I know exactly what the outcome of any attempt would be, and I know that I'd just end up being hurt all over again.
> 
> So why do I feel so compelled to do it?


Because it's hard to let go of someone you loved so much.

Here is a question for you - if she hasn't reached out to you, why would you reach out to her? If she was interested in R wouldn't she make that move herself?

I know it's hard, but you have to try and move forward. Think of life without her. 

I too wish, even now, that my H and I could R, but every day its more clear that it isn't going to happen. As painful as it is, I know I have to move forward without him, for my own happiness.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Because it's hard to let go of someone you loved so much.
> 
> Here is a question for you - if she hasn't reached out to you, why would you reach out to her? If she was interested in R wouldn't she make that move herself?
> 
> I know it's hard, but you have to try and move forward. Think of life without her.
> 
> I too wish, even now, that my H and I could R, but every day its more clear that it isn't going to happen. As painful as it is, I know I have to move forward without him, for my own happiness.


Yeah you're right - if she's interested in R, she'll make the move, although she is extremely stubborn.

I also know logically that she isn't the woman I loved anymore, and that if we were to R she would need to change. Emotionally though I'm still in love with the memory of how it used to be. Not her as she is now. Now she's cold and selfish and heartless.

I know I have to move forward without her too, and I'm trying, but it's difficult sometimes .

I get angry at myself for feeling like this because I shouldn't want her back at all after the way she's treated me over the years.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah you're right - if she's interested in R, she'll make the move, although she is extremely stubborn.
> 
> I also know logically that she isn't the woman I loved anymore, and that if we were to R she would need to change. Emotionally though* I'm still in love with the memory of how it used to be*. Not her as she is now. Now she's cold and selfish and heartless.
> 
> I know I have to move forward without her too, and I'm trying, but it's difficult sometimes .
> 
> I get angry at myself for feeling like this because I shouldn't want her back at all after the way she's treated me over the years.


Interesting choice of words. In love with her memory. Doesn't that tell you something?

I said something similar in therapy yesterday about my H. My therapist was quick to point it out for me.

It doesn't matter if she is stubborn. If she wants to be with you she will try to be with you.

I want my H back even now, and he is not the nicest person. I think part of it is fear, fear of moving into the unknown.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Interesting choice of words. In love with her memory. Doesn't that tell you something?
> 
> I said something similar in therapy yesterday about my H. My therapist was quick to point it out for me.
> 
> It doesn't matter if she is stubborn. If she wants to be with you she will try to be with you.
> 
> I want my H back even now, and he is not the nicest person. I think part of it is fear, fear of moving into the unknown.


Yeah, I chose those words carefully, I'm trying to reinforce the fact that she is no longer that woman.

Things don't look good at the moment for her wanting to be with me. Then again, time does wonderful things, or so I keep hearing .

I just struggle to thing that we only got married 5 months ago, and now it's like this. It's just so... surreal I guess.

One of the last times we spoke she told me "I don't feel like this is really happening yet". Who knows what will happen when she does feel like that.

It's a scary experience, going from seeing you future so clearly to suddenly having no idea at all how things could pan out.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I chose those words carefully, I'm trying to reinforce the fact that she is no longer that woman.
> 
> Things don't look good at the moment for her wanting to be with me. Then again, time does wonderful things, or so I keep hearing .
> 
> I just struggle to thing that we only got married 5 months ago, and now it's like this. It's just so... surreal I guess.
> 
> One of the last times we spoke she told me "I don't feel like this is really happening yet". Who knows what will happen when she does feel like that.
> 
> It's a scary experience, going from seeing you future so clearly to suddenly having no idea at all how things could pan out.


Time does do wonderful things. You will see.

The way I see it, you dodged a bullet, better to find this out now, and move forward with your life than spend a lifetime unhappy.

It is scary. To some degree, I think a lot of us are scared of the unknown.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Time does do wonderful things. You will see.
> 
> The way I see it, you dodged a bullet, better to find this out now, and move forward with your life than spend a lifetime unhappy.
> 
> It is scary. To some degree, I think a lot of us are scared of the unknown.


Did I really dodge it though? I feel like it's hit me right in the heart.

I mean, yeah I was unhappy in the last couple of months, but before that I've never been so happy in my life. I don't know when she stopped being happy. Given all the trends I've observed here, I'm starting to wonder if there was some kind of EA/PA involved. That would explain her behaviour towards me, the so called "affair fog".

I am going to move forward and be happy - it's just that part of me still wants that to be with her, the real her, not her impostor.

I'm terrified of the unknown.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I am going to move forward and be happy - it's just that part of me still wants that to be with her, the real her, not her impostor.


And, just who would that be?


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Did I really dodge it though? I feel like it's hit me right in the heart.
> 
> I mean, yeah I was unhappy in the last couple of months, but before that I've never been so happy in my life. I don't know when she stopped being happy. Given all the trends I've observed here, I'm starting to wonder if there was some kind of EA/PA involved. That would explain her behaviour towards me, the so called "affair fog".
> 
> I am going to move forward and be happy - it's just that part of me still wants that to be with her, the real her, not her impostor.
> 
> I'm terrified of the unknown.


Yes it did hit you right in the heart. But in the long run, I would think its better to know these things now.

I spent 13 years with a man I loved. A man that I have known for 19 years. I gave it my all. I was hoping for a family and a life with this man, and now it's all gone poof. I have to start from scratch. I am afraid. The time that I spent with him, I will never get back. I could have been happy with someone else. I could have had a life with someone else. The life I was trying to build with him, I could have build with someone else. Wouldn't it be better to not spend 20 yrs with someone who treated you badly and find someone that wants to be happy with you.

Why does it matter if there was someone else or not? She was unhappy for whatever reason and she left. I don't know. Maybe I am strange, but I never really think about whether or not my H met someone or not. I just don't think its of that great consequence in the end. He was unhappy, he didn't come to me, he gave up on us. Those are the things that matter to me. Something in the relationship made him unhappy. The OM/OW was just something to gravitate towards in that unhappiness.

That makes two of us that are terrified.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Yes it did hit you right in the heart. But in the long run, I would think its better to know these things now.
> 
> I spent 13 years with a man I loved. A man that I have known for 19 years. I gave it my all. I was hoping for a family and a life with this man, and now it's all gone poof. I have to start from scratch. I am afraid. The time that I spent with him, I will never get back. I could have been happy with someone else. I could have had a life with someone else. The life I was trying to build with him, I could have build with someone else. Wouldn't it be better to not spend 20 yrs with someone who treated you badly and find someone that wants to be happy with you.
> 
> Why does it matter if there was someone else or not? She was unhappy for whatever reason and she left. I don't know. Maybe I am strange, but I never really think about whether or not my H met someone or not. I just don't think its of that great consequence in the end. He was unhappy, he didn't come to me, he gave up on us. Those are the things that matter to me. Something in the relationship made him unhappy. The OM/OW was just something to gravitate towards in that unhappiness.
> 
> That makes two of us that are terrified.


It doesn't matter if there's anyone else or not really, it doesn't change the fact that she's no longer with me.

I spent very nearly 6 years of my life with her, and within 3 weeks of meeting her I was hopelessly in love with her. I couldn't picture a future without her in it even then. Now when I try to picture a future without her in it I just see... nothing. There's just nothing there.

I too could have built the life I wanted with her with someone else, but I didn't, and pretty much still don't want that live with anyone else.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> It doesn't matter if there's anyone else or not really, it doesn't change the fact that she's no longer with me.
> 
> I spent very nearly 6 years of my life with her, and within 3 weeks of meeting her I was hopelessly in love with her. I couldn't picture a future without her in it even then. Now when I try to picture a future without her in it I just see... nothing. There's just nothing there.
> 
> I too could have built the life I wanted with her with someone else, but I didn't, and pretty much still don't want that live with anyone else.


I see nothing too :-(

It's understandable not to want that life with anyone else at this moment.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I spent very nearly 6 years of my life with her, and within 3 weeks of meeting her I was hopelessly in love with her. I couldn't picture a future without her in it even then. Now when I try to picture a future without her in it I just see... nothing. There's just nothing there.


What would you tell a friend who said this to you?


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> I see nothing too :-(
> 
> It's understandable not to want that life with anyone else at this moment.


I'm sure things will become clearer regarding our futures, all in good time.

Some days I think I'm coping really well, then I have days like today and think I'm going to be stuck in this hell for years.



> What would you tell a friend who said this to you?


I don't know to be honest. Perhaps I'd tell them to slow down. 

It just happened so quickly, the chemistry, the passion, the attraction, our personalities. Everything just clicked and we hit it off. It all felt so right, like it was meant to be. We were both massively infatuated with each other to start with, and we couldn't leave one another alone.

What would _you_ tell a friend that said this?


----------



## ArmyofJuan

WantWifeBack said:


> I know how it will come off, but I can't help but feel like I need to try again for my own peace of mind. It's really driving me crazy.


You'll fail and then hate yourself for even trying because you have to sacrifice your pride and self-respect to do it. 



> I don't know, I just really miss her and I think about all the good times we shared and how in love we once were. I want all of that back .


This is where you have to give up those thoughts, even if you were to R things will never be the same.



> I really hope I can be strong enough to not try again, but will I be able to live with myself if I don't?


Nobody ever regrets divorcing a cheating spouse but many regret giving them a second chance.



> It's so frustrating - I know exactly what the outcome of any attempt would be, and I know that I'd just end up being hurt all over again.
> 
> So why do I feel so compelled to do it?


It's been theorized that we subconsciously sabotage ourselves and burn our bridges to past relationships so we can never go back. If you give in to your feelings right now you stand to kill all feelings with her (which may be a good thing). 

You keep thinking you'll regret not trying one more time (though there's nothing you can actually do) but the reality is you'd regret giving her the time of day.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> There's a slim chance that I could be being interrogated, she's too clever to pick one of her close friends to do it.


It's best to not think this way. 

If you continue to come up with theories about your wife organizing plans involving you - that she's putting effort toward you - your detachment will be much harder. 

If she didn't put effort into you when you were together she certainly isn't now.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't know to be honest. Perhaps I'd tell them to slow down.


I want you to slow down.

Think of yourself at 50,000 feet looking at a friend of yours pouring his heart out like that over some woman. Thinking his life is basically over - after saying something like this:

I also know logically that she isn't the woman I loved anymore, and that if we were to R she would need to change. Emotionally though I'm still in love with the memory of how it used to be. Not her as she is now. Now she's cold and selfish and heartless.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> It's best to not think this way.
> 
> If you continue to come up with theories about your wife organizing plans involving you - that she's putting effort toward you - your detachment will be much harder.
> 
> If she didn't put effort into you when you were together she certainly isn't now.


Yeah, this is true - it was just a thought that occurred to me, I'm not sure why this woman would have contacted me otherwise. Maybe she liked what she saw . 

Still, I'm not going near that woman, she has something of a reputation.....



> I want you to slow down.
> 
> Think of yourself at 50,000 feet looking at a friend of yours pouring his heart out like that over some woman. Thinking his life is basically over - after saying something like this:
> 
> I also know logically that she isn't the woman I loved anymore, and that if we were to R she would need to change. Emotionally though I'm still in love with the memory of how it used to be. Not her as she is now. Now she's cold and selfish and heartless.


I hear you Conrad - I don't know how it is for other people though, but for me, logic and emotions don't mix well.

I _know_ my life isn't over. The life I envisaged with her is over, my life with myself continues, and I'm going to do my best to live it well.

I _feel_ devastated and like I'll always love her, miss her, and like I'll never get over her.

It's a contradiction that I'm struggling with internally. But compared to where I was 6 weeks ago, I think I've come along leaps and bounds.


----------



## Conrad

It's called human nature.

Our left brain sees the world intellectually and it's how we solve problems and understand things.

Our right brain is spacial and it works on intuition - it's the place where we "get" things.

A HUGE number of our perceptions and feelings truly come from our subconscious. It's where we begin to sense danger... and realize we need to fight for survival.

You are in a battle with emotions that are somewhat warped... based on your own personal insecurities that likely come from childhood... perhaps a relationship with your mother.

But, these feelings are like a floodtide.

The people that really soar after leaving here are those that detach their thinking from their emotions and learn to examine them. Ask yourself... is this real? Where does it come from?

A good therapist who will challenge you really helps.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I hear you Conrad - I don't know how it is for other people though, but for me, logic and emotions don't mix well.
> 
> I _know_ my life isn't over. The life I envisaged with her is over, my life with myself continues, and I'm going to do my best to live it well.
> 
> I _feel_ devastated and like I'll always love her, miss her, and like I'll never get over her.
> 
> It's a contradiction that I'm struggling with internally. But compared to where I was 6 weeks ago, I think I've come along leaps and bounds.


The only life you ever have is the one with yourself.

Others come and go.

Some stay longer; some play a bigger.

You are the one constant. 

Take care of yourself and reject those that do you harm.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> It's called human nature.
> 
> Our left brain sees the world intellectually and it's how we solve problems and understand things.
> 
> Our right brain is spacial and it works on intuition - it's the place where we "get" things.
> 
> A HUGE number of our perceptions and feelings truly come from our subconscious. It's where we begin to sense danger... and realize we need to fight for survival.
> 
> You are in a battle with emotions that are somewhat warped... based on your own personal insecurities that likely come from childhood... perhaps a relationship with your mother.
> 
> But, these feelings are like a floodtide.
> 
> The people that really soar after leaving here are those that detach their thinking from their emotions and learn to examine them. Ask yourself... is this real? Where does it come from?
> 
> A good therapist who will challenge you really helps.


My emotions are extremely warped, not only am I battling my own insecurities, but I'm head over heels for a woman that doesn't exist. I've been insecure for as long as I remember, so those insecurities probably do stem to my childhood. Probably not entirely dissimilar to my STBXW's issues with her parents.

I want to soar, like the Eagle in DeMello, not the Eagle that thought he was a Chicken. I don't doubt that I'll get there one day. How do I learn to detach my thinking from my emotions though?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> The only life you ever have is the one with yourself.
> 
> Others come and go.
> 
> Some stay longer; some play a bigger.
> 
> You are the one constant.
> 
> Take care of yourself and reject those that do you harm.


I agree Ceegee. I've spent all of my life seeking validation of my worth in others. I should look for that inside myself.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> I agree Ceegee. I've spent all of my life seeking validation of my worth in others. I should look for that inside myself.


You know, I used to wonder why my wife even wanted to be with me. I went through a period of believing that perhaps she didn't think she could do any better, so she settled on me.

Now I realise that she genuinely wanted to be with me for the same reason that I wanted to be with her. It's sad that I've realised this too late.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> You know, I used to wonder why my wife even wanted to be with me. I went through a period of believing that perhaps she didn't think she could do any better, so she settled on me.
> 
> Now I realise that she genuinely wanted to be with me for the same reason that I wanted to be with her. It's sad that I've realised this too late.


What reason was that?


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Marriage is an illusion. I married my wife fully expecting that was it, that I'd spend my life with her, and I was overjoyed at the thought. Nothing in life is sacred anymore, and unfortunately marriage can be walked away from just as easily as any other relationship it seems.
> 
> It is time to wake up, but I'm not a morning person . But you're right, there is no other choice, so we do what we must to get through this.


Very true statement. Nicely said. From the way I am currently feeling, that hit the nail right on the head...It truly is sad how marriage isn't taken seriously anymore. It's almost like...whats the point? I'll probably give marriage one more shot and if that doesn't work...I'm done.


----------



## Conrad

Brokenman85 said:


> Very true statement. Nicely said. From the way I am currently feeling, that hit the nail right on the head...It truly is sad how marriage isn't taken seriously anymore. It's almost like...whats the point? I'll probably give marriage one more shot and if that doesn't work...I'm done.


You guys do realize that the people who don't take it seriously are the ones who don't understand themselves - and buy into the Hollywood malarkey.

You may want to check the mirror to find those guys.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> You guys do realize that the people who don't take it seriously are the ones who don't understand themselves - and buy into the Hollywood malarkey.
> 
> You may want to check the mirror to find those guys.


Truth.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> What reason was that?


Because I never felt deserving of her love, or anyone else's for that matter. I always tried to make everyone happy to "win" their love, but it can't be "won". I know this now.



> You guys do realize that the people who don't take it seriously are the ones who don't understand themselves - and buy into the Hollywood malarkey.
> 
> You may want to check the mirror to find those guys.


I've always been a romantic at heart, believing in soulmates and "the one". That isn't real, it's fiction, it's Disney, it's Hollywood. I've done a lot of looking at myself recently. I still don't understand myself, but I'm working on it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Very true statement. Nicely said. From the way I am currently feeling, that hit the nail right on the head...It truly is sad how marriage isn't taken seriously anymore. It's almost like...whats the point? I'll probably give marriage one more shot and if that doesn't work...I'm done.


I don't even think I'll give it another shot - what's the point? It doesn't mean anything anymore. 

After my parents divorced when I was a teen, I lost all hope in the construct of marriage, and love in general. It wasn't until I met my STBXW that I started to find hope again. How wrong was I? Marriage is an outdated social construct that nobody truly honours anymore, and I was an idiot for believing otherwise. I was ready to spend the rest of my life with this woman, right up until my last breath. She had other ideas.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't even think I'll give it another shot - what's the point? It doesn't mean anything anymore.
> 
> After my parents divorced when I was a teen, I lost all hope in the construct of marriage, and love in general. It wasn't until I met my STBXW that I started to find hope again. How wrong was I? Marriage is an outdated social construct that nobody truly honours anymore, and I was an idiot for believing otherwise. I was ready to spend the rest of my life with this woman, right up until my last breath. She had other ideas.


How does the victim chair feel?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> How does the victim chair feel?


Justified.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Justified.


I'll sign off now.

Good luck to you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> I'll sign off now.
> 
> Good luck to you.


I'm sure the way I'm feeling isn't abnormal. All part of the roller coaster.

Just yesterday, my emotional state shifted 4 times.

Today it has shifted several times:

This morning I was angry.
Then I was sad.
Then I felt victimised.
Now I feel angry again.

How does the condescension chair feel?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure the way I'm feeling isn't abnormal. All part of the roller coaster.
> 
> Just yesterday, my emotional state shifted 4 times.
> 
> Today it has shifted several times:
> 
> This morning I was angry.
> Then I was sad.
> Then I felt victimised.
> Now I feel angry again.
> 
> How does the condescension chair feel?


Add 'persecutor' to your emotional state.

You have read about the victim triangle, right?

The roller coaster ride ends when you stay at 50K.

When someone is hitting you with 2x4's, it's time to come to your senses.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Add 'persecutor' to your emotional state.
> 
> You have read about the victim triangle, right?
> 
> The roller coaster ride ends when you stay at 50K.
> 
> When someone is hitting you with 2x4's, it's time to come to your senses.


Yeah I've read about the drama triangle.

And I apologise Conrad, I'm just a little fraught right now.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure the way I'm feeling isn't abnormal. All part of the roller coaster.
> 
> Just yesterday, my emotional state shifted 4 times.
> 
> Today it has shifted several times:
> 
> This morning I was angry.
> Then I was sad.
> Then I felt victimised.
> Now I feel angry again.
> 
> How does the condescension chair feel?


It's completely normal man. Don't sweat it. While I have been getting better like I've explained recently, I feel in the past week or so I have been backsliding a bit in my progress. It looks like it's going to be a long long process. I know it sucks....we didn't deserve this. We just have to push through it anyway.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> It's completely normal man. Don't sweat it. While I have been getting better like I've explained recently, I feel in the past week or so I have been backsliding a bit in my progress. It looks like it's going to be a long long process. I know it sucks....we didn't deserve this. We just have to push through it anyway.


Yeah, I was doing really well and then this week my emotions have been all over the place. My feelings towards my STBXW have literally been changing 4-5 times a day. It's a really strange feeling. I'm sure it'll pass.

You're right about it being a long process. If I could get over my wife in 6 weeks, I wouldn't be here, because I would never have really cared about our marriage.


----------



## Ceegee

Brokenman85 said:


> It's completely normal man. Don't sweat it. While I have been getting better like I've explained recently, I feel in the past week or so I have been backsliding a bit in my progress. It looks like it's going to be a long long process. I know it sucks....*we didn't deserve this*. We just have to push through it anyway.


I know you're trying to be understanding.

This, however, is victim-speak.

You won't ever truly heal until you've realized your own POS tendencies that got you where you are.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> I know you're trying to be understanding.
> 
> This, however, is victim-speak.
> 
> You won't ever truly heal until you've realized your own POS tendencies that got you where you are.


I'm learning what mine are and I'm actively working on them. It's not easy but it's the only way to go.

I still have bad days though - to be expected.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> I know you're trying to be understanding.
> 
> This, however, is victim-speak.
> 
> You won't ever truly heal until you've realized your own POS tendencies that got you where you are.


I call it wallowing.

Sympathy might feel good.

But, it rarely helps anyone move forward.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

Have you talked about your FOO issues with your IC?


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> It's sad that I've realised this too late.


It's excellent that you've realized rather than never realizing it at all. Your wife may never. You are in charge of you and now you know that. You've won; it's not sad. 

Your history is your history and it brought you here.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I was doing really well and then this week my emotions have been all over the place. My feelings towards my STBXW have literally been changing 4-5 times a day. It's a really strange feeling. I'm sure it'll pass.
> 
> You're right about it being a long process. If I could get over my wife in 6 weeks, I wouldn't be here, because I would never have really cared about our marriage.


You don't need to get over your wife. You need to get over* you.*

Here's the deal, WWB. You are no different than the rest of us schmucks. You idealized your partner. You idealized your 'family'. You idealized who you thought you were. You got very good at playing "pretend."

Now you are starting to become self-aware. You are starting to figure out that maybe this is all about you. Because a healthy, emotionally sound person would not have tolerated this relationship. And he wouldn't have put his partner up on this ridiculous pedestal.

None of this has anything to do with *her*. It's all about *you*!

Practice staying at 50K. You know you are there when you can observe yourself and laugh at *you*. I laugh at myself all the time now, because I see what an ass I am. It's a great place to be.

So some practical steps:

1.) Practice getting to and staying at 50K. You have to do this with intention at first. It becomes second nature after much practice.

2.) Find a damn good IC, and get to the root of you FOO issues. So you can learn about what makes you tick, why you put your partner on a pedestal, etc.

3.) Read, read, read. Read DeMello. Read Codependent No More. Read NMMNG. Read Married Man's Sex Life Primer.

4.) Exercise. Get into shape. Seriously.

5.) Recognize when you are on the corners of the victim triangle. Get centered.

6.) Keep blogging here.

When you get whacked by 2x4's, its not because the TAMer is wanting to be mean or a jerk. It's because he/she is trying to help.


----------



## Brokenman85

Ceegee said:


> I know you're trying to be understanding.
> 
> This, however, is victim-speak.
> 
> You won't ever truly heal until you've realized your own POS tendencies that got you where you are.


Gotta Disagree on this a bit. Sure, I had my flaws, but overall I was a pretty good husband. Didn't stop my wife from having an affair and leaving me out of the blue after 9 years together, without any attempt to fix our marriage at all. She simply got bored and split.


----------



## Conrad

Brokenman85 said:


> Gotta Disagree on this a bit. Sure, I had my flaws, but overall I was a pretty good husband. Didn't stop my wife from having an affair and leaving me out of the blue after 9 years together, without any attempt to fix our marriage at all. She simply got bored and split.


What have you learned from the experience?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Gotta Disagree on this a bit. Sure, I had my flaws, but overall I was a pretty good husband. Didn't stop my wife from having an affair and leaving me out of the blue after 9 years together, without any attempt to fix our marriage at all. She simply got bored and split.


You need to look at why she got bored... nobody has a passive role in a break up, even me, and I'm damn near perfect .


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> It's excellent that you've realized rather than never realizing it at all. Your wife may never. You are in charge of you and now you know that. You've won; it's not sad.
> 
> Your history is your history and it brought you here.


It's never too late, is something I used to tell myself all the time. I realised this was a crutch giving me false hope so I stopped when I realised that it's not too late for me, but it's too late for my marriage.



> You don't need to get over your wife. You need to get over you.
> 
> Here's the deal, WWB. You are no different than the rest of us schmucks. You idealized your partner. You idealized your 'family'. You idealized who you thought you were. You got very good at playing "pretend."
> 
> Now you are starting to become self-aware. You are starting to figure out that maybe this is all about you. Because a healthy, emotionally sound person would not have tolerated this relationship. And he wouldn't have put his partner up on this ridiculous pedestal.
> 
> None of this has anything to do with her. It's all about you!
> 
> Practice staying at 50K. You know you are there when you can observe yourself and laugh at you. I laugh at myself all the time now, because I see what an ass I am. It's a great place to be.
> 
> So some practical steps:
> 
> 1.) Practice getting to and staying at 50K. You have to do this with intention at first. It becomes second nature after much practice.
> 
> 2.) Find a damn good IC, and get to the root of you FOO issues. So you can learn about what makes you tick, why you put your partner on a pedestal, etc.
> 
> 3.) Read, read, read. Read DeMello. Read Codependent No More. Read NMMNG. Read Married Man's Sex Life Primer.
> 
> 4.) Exercise. Get into shape. Seriously.
> 
> 5.) Recognize when you are on the corners of the victim triangle. Get centered.
> 
> 6.) Keep blogging here.
> 
> When you get whacked by 2x4's, its not because the TAMer is wanting to be mean or a jerk. It's because he/she is trying to help.


A couple of questions - what's 50K and what's a FOO?

3.) Am currently reading NMMNG, and have read some of DeMello. Will look in to the others once I've finished with these two, and I have been paid.

4.) I have been doing some exercise - and when I've been paid I'm joining the local gym with a couple of buddies. We're going to train and train hard four nights a week.

5.) I actually saw myself on the triangle a few times over the last week and realised which role I was playing, this allowed me to detach from what I was feeling and look at it logically - sometimes my emotions cloud that clarity though.

6.) I don't have any intention to stop posting here - this forum has been a godsend.



> I call it wallowing.
> 
> Sympathy might feel good.
> 
> But, it rarely helps anyone move forward.


This is truth - however I think that it's a normal part of the grieving process. I'm sure I'm not the only one that was a complete mess for the first few weeks after their SO walked out.

I have no shame in admitting that I couldn't sleep, eat, shower, or stop crying, or do anything at all without breaking down.

Whilst I have come a long way from that point, I still have moments of intense grief.


----------



## MSC71

Well if you contact her it will only make things worse. You want to contact her to make YOU feel better. ..Been there done that. It wont change anything and make your recovery time much longer.


----------



## Conrad

50K = 50,000 feet view

FOO = Family of Origin

Have you told any of us about your childhood?


----------



## GotLifeBack

MSC71 said:


> Well if you contact her it will only make things worse. You want to contact her to make YOU feel better. ..Been there done that. It wont change anything and make your recovery time much longer.


Which is exactly why I didn't contact her and won't do .

I know that all it will do is hurt me more, and I've had enough of that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> 50K = 50,000 feet view
> 
> FOO = Family of Origin
> 
> Have you told any of us about your childhood?


I'm unsure - I'll post it here. Clearly this will identify me if my wife is reading these forums, but I don't care. It's very unlikely that she is anyway.

As a very young child I was an extremely intelligent kid, I had an IQ that was off the charts. My mother, aunt and grandmother put a tremendous amount of pressure on me from the age of 4 to become a doctor, or some other highly regarded professional. My family are working class, and have always had low paying manual jobs.

I'm not sure what age I was when it began, but my mother became a fanatical christian. The kind that preach in the streets, and the kind that look for Satan in everything. I wanted to learn Karate with my friends as a kid - I couldn't because it was "demonic" because according to my mother they prayed to "the dragon" which was another word for Satan. There are many other examples of this kind of fanaticism - I wasn't allowed to read Harry Potter in middle school English class, because magic is "demonic" (that was her favourite word). Pokemon - demonic. The music I liked - demonic. Everything - demonic.

I was bullied at school for the evangelical things my mother did. I was bullied at school for being the smart kid. School as a child was not a happy time for me.

My father worked long hours, and when he was at home he would mostly fall asleep due to how hard he was working to support our family. He's a classic "Nice Guy".

At the age of 9, I started acting out, getting in to fights at school and misbehaving.

When I turned 10 my father was diagnosed with Lymphoma and the odds were stacked against him. Whilst he was having chemotherapy, my mother just berated him for his inability to work cause of how unwell the chemo made him. He battled it for two years, and eventually went in to remission. 

After he had finished his chemotherapy, my mother pressured him to get a second job. So, my father would come home from work, shower, and the go back out to his night job. At this time I was about to turn 13.

Aged 13 I made a lot of friends who were older than I, and I guess you could say I fell in with a bad crowd.

Aged 14 I started smoking tobacco, and cannabis. Things weren't good at home and subconsciously I think I knew my parents were heading for divorce.

Aged 15 parents divorce, my father's world imploded around him. He was suicidal, and talked openly about his wished to end his life to me and my younger sister. He always said he wouldn't because of us though. My sister went with my mother, I stayed with my father because I didn't want him to be alone, and I worried about what he might do if I left. My sister wasn't given a choice as she was only 11 at the time. I can still remember how it felt then, lying in bed, listening to my father cry himself to sleep every night, and not being able to do anything about it.

Aged 16 I finish my education, due to all the time I spent getting high at school, my grades weren't fantastic. To say I pretty much high for the entirety of high school would not be an understatement. I even got drunk at school a few times. Bad bad choices. Shortly after leaving school I manage to get a job at my fathers company, but I got laid off 3 months afterwards due to redundancy.

Aged 17 I got another job and worked at a race track for six months. Again I got laid off due to redundancy.

Aged 18 I got a job working at a pharmaceutical company.

Aged 19 I finally gave up the cannabis, as I wanted to get my life together. Shortly after I gave up I met my now STBXW at a house party. We hit it off, and 3 weeks later it was official. 6 months later, we moved in together.

Aged 20 I quit smoking for my STBXW.

Aged 21 I got laid off due to redundancy again, due to the economic downturn. This really knocked my confidence, and I struggled to find another job as I had poor grades from school.

Aged 22 I managed to land an office job that paid the best I've ever had a job pay. A month after I started me and my STBXW separated for a few months due to my depression from being unable to find a job. After 18 months here, again I was made redundant due to the company wanting to "cost save". They centralised my job at the head office and laid off me and the rest of my team. This pretty much destroyed my confidence and also put a lot of strain on my relationship with my STBXW as a few months before this happened, we reconciled. 

Aged 23 I still couldn't find work, and I sank further in to my depression.

Aged 24 I got another office job, the best paying job I've had yet, and I still work there now, and I'm about to turn 26.

Hmm.... That's a little bit more than my childhood.... sorry.


----------



## Brokenman85

Conrad said:


> What have you learned from the experience?


That I married a Wh0re....In all seriousness, I learned a TON. I learned to not take someone for granted. That you can't get too comfortable with ANYONE no matter how "secure" you think things are. I learned that you have to make a conscious effort to make a woman feel special, no matter how long you have been together. I've learned that I need to be more spontaneous and exciting....I could go on. Suffice to say, I have learned a lot! Now did I deserve to be cheated on and abandoned because I was a little boring? Hell no, but I DID learn that I can't ignore character issues or they will bite me in the ass later. She kissed a guy about a year before we got married. I forgave her. Stupid me I guess. My next relationship will definitely benefit from me going through this....just wish it didn't have to come to this. Didn't mean to hijack the thread WWB, but he asked!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> That I married a Wh0re....In all seriousness, I learned a TON. I learned to not take someone for granted. That you can't get too comfortable with ANYONE no matter how "secure" you think things are. I learned that you have to take a conscious effort to make a woman feel special, no matter how long you have been together. I've learned not to ignore character issue red flags early in the relationship. I've learned that I need to be more spontaneous and exciting....I could go on. Suffice to say, I have learned a lot! Now did I deserve to be cheated on and abandoned because I was a little boring? Hell no, but I DID learn that I can't ignore character issues or they will bite my in the ass later. She kissed a guy about a year before we got married. I forgave her. Stupid me I guess. My next relationship will definitely benefit from me going through this....just wish it didn't have to come to this. Didn't mean to hijack the thread WWB, but he asked!


Hijack all you like buddy  we're all here for support.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also, I forgot to mention that aged 11 my mother became extremely addicted to online chat rooms. She would sit in front of the PC every night and leave me and my sister to fend for ourselves. This got worse once my father took on his second job.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Also, I forgot to mention that aged 11 my mother became extremely addicted to online chat rooms. She would sit in front of the PC every night and leave me and my sister to fend for ourselves. This got worse once my father took on his second job.


Sounds like having a best friend was really important for you in a wife.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Sounds like having a best friend was really important for you in a wife.


It was. She was my best friend.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> It was. She was my best friend.


Sorry to hear that man...same for me.  It's one thing to lose a wife, but losing a wife AND a best friend just plain sucks. I guess in reality she wasn't my friend because a friend wouldn't do what she did to me.


----------



## jeffthechef

:iagree:


----------



## Conrad

You three guys realize how common that is among codependent men?

We may have felt neglected or lonely as boys... and had to earn the praise of our moms... or of our sisters.

We take all that pent up desire for love and pour it out on our wives, placing her on a pedestal she neither deserves, nor wants.

When she behaves like a female, we get frustrated and angry... and we double-down on the loving behavior that doesn't work.

Rage builds inside.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Sorry to hear that man...same for me.  It's one thing to lose a wife, but losing a wife AND a best friend just plain sucks. I guess in reality she wasn't my friend because a friend wouldn't do what she did to me.


I'm sure she was your friend, much like mine was. People change though, especially WAWs. For my wife it was like a switch flipped in her head and she became a totally different person.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You three guys realize how common that is among codependent men?
> 
> We may have felt neglected or lonely as boys... and had to earn the praise of our moms... or of our sisters.
> 
> We take all that pent up desire for love and pour it out on our wives, placing her on a pedestal she neither deserves, nor wants.
> 
> When she behaves like a female, we get frustrated and angry... and we double-down on the loving behavior that doesn't work.
> 
> Rage builds inside.


I'm sure it's extremely common. 

I realised that I'd placed my wife on a pedestal very shortly after she left. Never again will I place anyone on a pedestal.

Love is a drug, one that I had very little experience of from childhood & my teenage years. So when I found it and I felt it, I almost convinced myself that she was some divine being. Beautiful and radiant, and that I should worship at her feet.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm sure it's extremely common.
> 
> I realised that I'd placed my wife on a pedestal very shortly after she left. Never again will I place anyone on a pedestal.
> 
> Love is a drug, one that I had very little experience of from childhood & my teenage years. So when I found it and I felt it, I almost convinced myself that she was some divine being. Beautiful and radiant, and that I should worship at her feet.


She certainly knows she isn't all that. She could never respect anyone (long term) who felt that way.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> She certainly knows she isn't all that. She could never respect anyone (long term) who felt that way.


As has been proven it seems!

I certainly don't have her on that pedestal any more though .


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> As has been proven it seems!
> 
> I certainly don't have her on that pedestal any more though .


She doesn't know that.


----------



## angstire

My wife was my best friend too and I'd gladly make my next SO my best friend. However, I still have a best male friend and a number of really good friends too. 

The issue is the pedestal. Not being a good friend to your wife.

Divine beings that you worship at their feet, that's the issue.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> She doesn't know that.


She does now. I've been forwarding her mail at my own expense, this morning I sent her a polite message letting her know that I wouldn't be forwarding any more.

I figure she's been gone for nearly 7 weeks, she will have changed her address with all of the important people, and if she hasn't, that's her own fault.



> My wife was my best friend too and I'd gladly make my next SO my best friend. However, I still have a best male friend and a number of really good friends too.
> 
> The issue is the pedestal. Not being a good friend to your wife.
> 
> Divine beings that you worship at their feet, that's the issue.


I know that I wasn't a good friend to her, I was more like a subordinate to her. 

Never again will I make that mistake.

Despite all of this, I still love her and have a small hope that things will work out, I _know_ they won't, but that feeling is still there.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> She does now. I've been forwarding her mail at my own expense, this morning I sent her a polite message letting her know that I wouldn't be forwarding any more.
> 
> I figure she's been gone for nearly 7 weeks, she will have changed her address with all of the important people, and if she hasn't, that's her own fault.


Now, I was expecting silence or fury at this. 

She replied in a courteous manner and said that she would reimburse me for the costs, and thanked me for forwarding it on.

Hmm....


----------



## GotLifeBack

It seems telling her this was a bad move. 

The lines of communication have opened again, I need to shut them down again.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, she asked me to continue forwarding her mail for a week to give her time to get it redirected.

I said no.

She got nasty, told me that I'm immature and every time she speaks to me she realises what a lucky escape she has had.

.

I didn't cave in though. I stood my ground, no more mr. nice guy.


----------



## GotLifeBack

And the barrage of hurtful comments continues.

She tells me I'm a horrible person, she tells me that I'm self-righteous, and that she has wasted her time with me.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

No.

Contact.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> No.
> 
> Contact.


>_<

At the moment I feel okay with contact, if anything she's just proving how spiteful she is.


----------



## oviid

First of all let me say that I am so sorry for your situation. My marriage has been not so good for YEARS. Because of that perhaps the sting now is less, I don't know. 

It's hard though either way especially when they act cold towards you. My wife has not been rude with me in the ways yours has, that must really hurt, but I also understand that I can't allow her actions to control mine. I think what we need to do is look forward and try really hard not to look back with hope. If we can just better ourselves for ourselves either way we will be better for it in the end. I'm trying to keep busy doing things so I don't think about her so much.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> First of all let me say that I am so sorry for your situation. My marriage has been not so good for YEARS. Because of that perhaps the sting now is less, I don't know.
> 
> It's hard though either way especially when they act cold towards you. My wife has not been rude with me in the ways yours has, that must really hurt, but I also understand that I can't allow her actions to control mine. I think what we need to do is look forward and try really hard not to look back with hope. If we can just better ourselves for ourselves either way we will be better for it in the end. I'm trying to keep busy doing things so I don't think about her so much.


Thanks oviid 

I've been trying to keep busy and not look back too - it's difficult. Part of me wants to R with my wife regardless of everything. I know that she would love the progress I have made. If only she could see it.

Part of me also doesn't want to R with her after the way she's treated me. I won't be treated that way again, by anyone, and I think she would expect me to just roll over and take all her sh*t again.


----------



## oviid

Exactly. It's like you love this person and really you want them back but then you think about things and for a moment there's this clarity and understanding that you don't deserve to be treated this way. I'd be lying if I said there's no way because if she turned today and said we should work it out I would try. 

The problem is in thinking that way though. It's hard not to think that way but I find that when I just look ahead it clears my mind just enough to see past the fog. I start to see how things are without the emotions during those minutes. I realized that I deserve to be treated better and I know I have plenty to offer, hell I could actually be happy one day if I just focus on that and stop looking back so much.

Anyway I appreciate your posts and hope you can stay positive, look forward with confidence and make your life better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> Exactly. It's like you love this person and really you want them back but then you think about things and for a moment there's this clarity and understanding that you don't deserve to be treated this way. I'd be lying if I said there's no way because if she turned today and said we should work it out I would try.
> 
> The problem is in thinking that way though. It's hard not to think that way but I find that when I just look ahead it clears my mind just enough to see past the fog. I start to see how things are without the emotions during those minutes. I realized that I deserve to be treated better and I know I have plenty to offer, hell I could actually be happy one day if I just focus on that and stop looking back so much.
> 
> Anyway I appreciate your posts and hope you can stay positive, look forward with confidence and make your life better.


Yeah, I fear I would potentially try to R if she turned around and said she wanted to. She isn't going to though, she hates me.

I know what you're saying about looking ahead and knowing you have plenty to offer, I know this too. Sometimes I feel it as well, other times, not so much. Just gotta push on!


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> >_<
> 
> At the moment I feel okay with contact, if anything she's just proving how spiteful she is.


As long as you stay at 50K.

"I'm not ok with your insults"


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> As long as you stay at 50K.
> 
> "I'm not ok with your insults"


I stayed at 50K. I held my ground for the first time ever with her. I didn't back down. It felt good, and it angered her even more, and I still didn't back down, despite all the hurtful things she said.

Contact has now ended also.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> And the barrage of hurtful comments continues.
> 
> She tells me I'm a horrible person, she tells me that I'm self-righteous, and that she has wasted her time with me.


I'm not ok with invective.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> I'm not ok with invective.


Me either, Conrad.

She knows this now. That used to be her method for triggering my Nice Guy tendencies, not any more.

The cycle:

I disagree with something she says/wants.

She hits me with either sulking, silence, or a stream of invective.

I back down and give her what she wants for fear of losing her love.

The cycle was broken today, and she didn't like it .

I did.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Me either, Conrad.
> 
> She knows this now. That used to be her method for triggering my Nice Guy tendencies, not any more.
> 
> The cycle:
> 
> I disagree with something she says/wants.
> 
> She hits me with either sulking, silence, or a stream of invective.
> 
> I back down and give her what she wants for fear of losing her love.
> 
> The cycle was broken today, and she didn't like it .
> 
> I did.


No, "I'm not ok with invective" is what you say TO HER.

If she persists, you stop the conversation by leaving the premises.

You do not put up with her crap.

That's step #1

Remember... no defensiveness. No hostility.

Cool, firm, dispassionate


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> No, "I'm not ok with invective" is what you say TO HER.
> 
> If she persists, you stop the conversation by leaving the premises.
> 
> You do not put up with her crap.
> 
> That's step #1
> 
> Remember... no defensiveness. No hostility.
> 
> Cool, firm, dispassionate


I didn't word it that way, but she knew that I wasn't ok with the way she was speaking to me. 

Dispassionate is not easy for me when I am talking to her, there's a lot of passion between us in many forms, be it anger, hatred, or sexual tension.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Nobody said its easy. Do it anyways.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I didn't word it that way, but she knew that I wasn't ok with the way she was speaking to me.
> 
> Dispassionate is not easy for me when I am talking to her, there's a lot of passion between us in many forms, be it anger, hatred, or sexual tension.


The way you will be able to discover your own future - with or without her - is by emotional control.

That's how men lead.

Don't make excuses for yourself. That leads nowhere good.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Nobody said its easy. Do it anyways.


Nothing worthwhile in life is easy, that's what I tried to tell my wife when she walked away. She's all for running and the easy option though.

I was as dispassionate as I could have been. It was easier this time.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> The way you will be able to discover your own future - with or without her - is by emotional control.
> 
> That's how men lead.
> 
> Don't make excuses for yourself. That leads nowhere good.


I know I need to learn to get my emotions under control. I'm getting better at it, I think. I guess now is the best time to learn as there are so many emotions flying around.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I know I need to learn to get my emotions under control. I'm getting better at it, I think. I guess now is the best time to learn as there are so many emotions flying around.


She is the best person to practice this on.

You know the over-the-top reaction you used to give her.

Put a stop to that... now.

Remember, she's an emotional vampire. She DESIRES that reaction to get her fix.

Don't give it to her.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I know I need to learn to get my emotions under control. I'm getting better at it, I think. I guess now is the best time to learn as there are so many emotions flying around.


If you feel that you can't get your emotions in check during one of these situations it is better to just turn around and walk away than to engage in her drama.

This will force her to own her emotions herself and you can't be pinned as an abusive psycho.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> If you feel that you can't get your emotions in check during one of these situations it is better to just turn around and walk away than to engage in her drama.
> 
> This will force her to own her emotions herself and you can't be pinned as an abusive psycho.


I'd be willing to wager she finds a way to blame most of her behavior on him.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Ceegee said:


> If you feel that you can't get your emotions in check during one of these situations it is better to just turn around and walk away than to engage in her drama.
> 
> *This will force her to own her emotions herself and you can't be pinned as an abusive psycho.*


Couldn't resist

Puddle Of Mudd - Psycho - YouTube


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> I'd be willing to wager she finds a way to blame most of her behavior on him.


She does. She told me just earlier - in her words "I'm not saying my behaviour since we broke up has been great, but yours has been beyond terrible". I didn't take the bait, I just let it go. She wanted me to ask "Wtf?".



> If you feel that you can't get your emotions in check during one of these situations it is better to just turn around and walk away than to engage in her drama.
> 
> This will force her to own her emotions herself and you can't be pinned as an abusive psycho.


Sadly, I can be pinned as whatever she wants me to be pinned as, among her friends and family. Although, I don't really care what she tells people about me, the important people know the truth.



> She is the best person to practice this on.
> 
> You know the over-the-top reaction you used to give her.
> 
> Put a stop to that... now.
> 
> Remember, she's an emotional vampire. She DESIRES that reaction to get her fix.
> 
> Don't give it to her.


I'm giving her nothing. She is getting no reactions from me whatsoever. I'll talk business, and I'll be professional, but that's it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

She also told me earlier "You made me miserable, you brought out the worst in me".

I pointed out that *she* did that herself, and that I have no control over her emotions.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> She also told me earlier "You made me miserable, you brought out the worst in me".
> 
> I pointed out that *she* did that herself, and that I have no control over her emotions.


Criticizing her is an exercise in futility. Think it, don't say it.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> She also told me earlier "You made me miserable, you brought out the worst in me".
> 
> I pointed out that *she* did that herself, and that I have no control over her emotions.


Been there, done that.

They all say this.

They don't like themselves but instead of looking inward and taking responsibility for their own emotions/behaviors they blame it on the one closest to them.

In the future, it's best to just ignore not point out the error. That justifies their belief in their mind.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> They all say this.
> 
> They don't like themselves but instead of looking inward and taking responsibility for their own emotions/behaviors they blame it on the one closest to them.
> 
> In the future, it's best to just ignore not point out the error. That justifies their belief in their mind.


The cool, firm, dispassionate response to blameshifting is to shut it down - in its tracks.

Attempting to blameshift back is escalation.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> She also told me earlier "You made me miserable, you brought out the worst in me".
> 
> I pointed out that *she* did that herself, and that I have no control over her emotions.


So, you're going to reason with an unreasonable person.

Good luck with that.

What are you hoping to accomplish?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> So, you're going to reason with an unreasonable person.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> What are you hoping to accomplish?


I was trying to help her, I still care for her deeply. Obviously, my help isn't wanted, and I don't know why I felt I wanted to anyway.



> Been there, done that.
> 
> They all say this.
> 
> They don't like themselves but instead of looking inward and taking responsibility for their own emotions/behaviors they blame it on the one closest to them.
> 
> In the future, it's best to just ignore not point out the error. That justifies their belief in their mind.


She never takes responsibility for anything. She doesn't know how to admit when she's in the wrong. Something she learned from her stubborn parents I suppose.



> The cool, firm, dispassionate response to blameshifting is to shut it down - in its tracks.
> 
> Attempting to blameshift back is escalation.


Yup - Although I didn't insult her or anything, things did escalate, and she grew increasingly spiteful.

I wish I hadn't spoken to her, I thought it polite to inform her that I would no longer be forwarding her mail. In hindsight I wish I'd just left it.

She also told me that in the last two weeks she's "been the happiest she's ever been in her life, felt more confident, felt sexier and has laughed more in the last two weeks than in the last 6 years".

I'm not sure what she was trying to achieve with this, perhaps baiting for drama? I just replied "Me too".


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I was trying to help her, I still care for her deeply. Obviously, my help isn't wanted, and I don't know why I felt I wanted to anyway.


Not your job. 

Any attempt to help her will be seen as being controlling.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Not your job.
> 
> Any attempt to help her will be seen as being controlling.


I know it's not my job anymore, yet I had to try one last time, for my own peace of mind. Now I can truly say I've tried my best for her, I won't regret. I was scared that in the future I'd look back and think "If only I'd done this, if only I'd done that". 

It's difficult watching someone you care for become someone you never thought they were. Especially when they're on a self-destructive path.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yup - Although I didn't insult her or anything, things did escalate, and she grew increasingly spiteful.


That's never happened before, has it?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> She also told me that in the last two weeks she's "been the happiest she's ever been in her life, felt more confident, felt sexier and has laughed more in the last two weeks than in the last 6 years".


Believe it or not, you are going to feel the same when this is all over.

WWB, many of us have been where you are. Your thread has attracted some posters who are real veterans. Keep doing your best to follow their advice.

I was exactly where you are a little over a year ago. I can honestly say I am a much more happy, emotionally mature person now. And when I think of the crap I tolerated while I was married to my ex, I still want to kick my own @ss.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> That's never happened before, has it?


Nope, not once .

In all seriousness, this was a pattern throughout our relationship. Things would escalate until I apologised and gave her what she wanted. Looking back at how many times I apologised when she was bang out of order, I wish I could travel back and tell myself to grow a pair.



> Believe it or not, you are going to feel the same when this is all over.
> 
> WWB, many of us have been where you are. Your thread has attracted some posters who are real veterans. Keep doing your best to follow their advice.
> 
> I was exactly where you are a little over a year ago. I can honestly say I am a much more happy, emotionally mature person now. And when I think of the crap I tolerated while I was married to my ex, I still want to kick my own @ss.


I know I'll feel that way, I'm already beginning to. So today was a bit of a backslide, but given the way she acted earlier, I'm feeling pretty good compared to how I would have done a fortnight ago.

I'm really pleased to have all of you vets onboard offering me advice and support. I truly don't know what I'd do without this thread. I do my best to listen to the advice - sometimes my emotions cloud my judgement still though.

I feel angry with myself for the way I allowed myself to be treated. Never again.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> She also told me that in the last two weeks she's "been the happiest she's ever been in her life, felt more confident, felt sexier and has laughed more in the last two weeks than in the last 6 years".


This is called "Live Bait"


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> This is called "Live Bait"


Well, I'm not taking the bait. 

I just don't understand why it is she's baiting me, what does she want to achieve from that?

I know - "Don't focus on her, focus on you" .


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, I'm not taking the bait.
> 
> I just don't understand why it is she's baiting me, what does she want to achieve from that?
> 
> I know - "Don't focus on her, focus on you" .


She wants to draw your ire. 

She wants to incite you.

She wants the drama to validate her emotion.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> She wants to draw your ire.
> 
> She wants to incite you.
> 
> She wants the drama to validate her emotion.


I'm not going to validate her.

When she asked me to continue forwarding her mail for another week and I said no, her reply was:

"That's really mature of you WWB, every time I speak to you I realise what a lucky escape I have had, thank you for showing me the error of my ways" - She felt her anger was valid.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not going to validate her.
> 
> When she asked me to continue forwarding her mail for another week and I said no, her reply was:
> 
> "That's really mature of you WWB, every time I speak to you I realise what a lucky escape I have had, thank you for showing me the error of my ways" - She felt her anger was valid.


Why did you say no?


----------



## oviid

Do you feel like her anger and harsh words make it easier for you to move on? I wonder if my wife acted that way if it might allow me to begin to harden my heart faster.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I really think you would do best if you maintained No Contact.

There's really nothing to discuss, is there? Maybe some legal things?

WWB, you will detox from her more quickly and completely if you maintain NC.

Legal questions can be handled via text/email. And you should take a day to reply to those.


----------



## Conrad

ThreeStrikes said:


> I really think you would do best if you maintained No Contact.
> 
> There's really nothing to discuss, is there? Maybe some legal things?
> 
> WWB, you will detox from her more quickly and completely if you maintain NC.
> 
> Legal questions can be handled via text/email. And you should take a day to reply to those.


Sounds like he needs to work with a therapist for awhile before he squares off with her.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB, TAM is great, but is not a substitute for IC.

Make sure you find a good one....not one that's just looking to collect co-pays.


----------



## Ceegee

ThreeStrikes said:


> WWB, TAM is great, but is not a substitute for IC.
> 
> *Make sure you find a good one*....not one that's just looking to collect co-pays.


Most likely won't be the first one you choose.

I'm currently shopping for my fourth one.

Don't settle and don't rush the process.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Most likely won't be the first one you choose.
> 
> I'm currently shopping for my fourth one.
> 
> Don't settle and don't rush the process.


We can help with that also.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Why did you say no?


Because I've been forwarding her mail at my own expense, and I realised last night that I'm doing it as a Nice Guy - I'm doing it so she thinks "Aww, he's sweet, he's being nice even after all this".

F*ck that. If the mail was important, she should have changed her address with the senders. It's not my job to do her these little favours any more. She's always lived in a fantasy world, she needs to land squarely in the real world, financially and emotionally, and she needs to learn that she can't walk all over people and then expect any form of favour.



> Do you feel like her anger and harsh words make it easier for you to move on? I wonder if my wife acted that way if it might allow me to begin to harden my heart faster.


In a sense, yes I do. Whilst her words saddened me, I'm not sure if that's because of what she said, or the fact that she had underlined just how spiteful and vindictive she can be, and that she truly isn't the woman I fell for.



> Sounds like he needs to work with a therapist for awhile before he squares off with her.


I'm working with my therapist on many things. I have until May 2014 before we can begin legal proceedings anyhow, she didn't outright say it earlier, but I think she's given up on the idea of annulment.



> I really think you would do best if you maintained No Contact.
> 
> There's really nothing to discuss, is there? Maybe some legal things?
> 
> WWB, you will detox from her more quickly and completely if you maintain NC.
> 
> Legal questions can be handled via text/email. And you should take a day to reply to those.


I agree wholeheartedly. My recovery over the last two weeks of NC has amazed me. It can only get better with time.



> WWB, TAM is great, but is not a substitute for IC.
> 
> Make sure you find a good one....not one that's just looking to collect co-pays.


I know it's not a substitute, I'm still visiting IC once a week. My counsellor is good, we've spoken about grieving for the marriage, my childhood, my abandonment issues, my self-esteem issues, why I behaved the way I did in my marriage, and she pointed out that my wife became my "obsession" - I was at IC earlier and I realised that I share the same obsessive tendencies that my mother does whilst talking. It was then that she suggested that perhaps my WTBXW was a replacement for my old obsessions - which I think has some truth to it.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

In the US, if we get mail that is not ours, we write "Wrong address, Return to Sender" on the envelope and put it back in the mail.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> In the US, if we get mail that is not ours, we write "Wrong address, Return to Sender" on the envelope and put it back in the mail.


I don't know if that works in the UK - I do know the postal service offers a redirection service - she's going to set that up.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Because I've been forwarding her mail at my own expense, and I realised last night that I'm doing it as a Nice Guy - I'm doing it so she thinks "Aww, he's sweet, he's being nice even after all this".
> 
> F*ck that. If the mail was important, she should have changed her address with the senders. It's not my job to do her these little favours any more. She's always lived in a fantasy world, she needs to land squarely in the real world, financially and emotionally, and she needs to learn that she can't walk all over people and then expect any form of favour.
> 
> 
> 
> In a sense, yes I do. Whilst her words saddened me, I'm not sure if that's because of what she said, or the fact that she had underlined just how spiteful and vindictive she can be, and that she truly isn't the woman I fell for.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working with my therapist on many things. I have until May 2014 before we can begin legal proceedings anyhow, she didn't outright say it earlier, but I think she's given up on the idea of annulment.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly. My recovery over the last two weeks of NC has amazed me. It can only get better with time.
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's not a substitute, I'm still visiting IC once a week. My counsellor is good, we've spoken about grieving for the marriage, my childhood, my abandonment issues, my self-esteem issues, why I behaved the way I did in my marriage, and she pointed out that my wife became my "obsession" - I was at IC earlier and I realised that I share the same obsessive tendencies that my mother does whilst talking. It was then that she suggested that perhaps my WTBXW was a replacement for my old obsessions - which I think has some truth to it.


Those are called FOO issues.

I recommend getting to the bottom of those.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Those are called FOO issues.
> 
> I recommend getting to the bottom of those.


Family Of Origin right? I'm not sure what that means.

She has text me again, aggressively "asking" me to continue to forward her mail.

I'm just going to ignore it.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> She has text me again, aggressively "asking" me to continue to forward her mail.
> 
> I'm just going to ignore it.


Good man. Now you're seeing the real her. She wants.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Good man. Now you're seeing the real her. She wants.


She wants?

Sorry, had a rough day and I'm pretty tired


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> F*ck that. If the mail was important, she should have changed her address with the senders. It's not my job to do her these little favours any more.


Precisely


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> She wants?
> 
> Sorry, had a rough day and I'm pretty tired


Sorry, I fixed my comment, by quoting your comment. She wants you to forward her mail. You ignored her. Good man.

Take a nap and then plug back in.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Family Of Origin right? I'm not sure what that means.
> 
> She has text me again, aggressively "asking" me to continue to forward her mail.
> 
> I'm just going to ignore it.


Family of Origin... means issues with your mom, nuclear family, etc.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Sorry, I fixed my comment, by quoting your comment. She wants you to forward her mail. You ignored her. Good man.
> 
> Take a nap and then plug back in.


It feels good ignoring her. I feel pretty detached after earlier, so that's making things easier. I don't doubt that it won't be the last I hear.

Hehe, I'm gonna take a nap shortly, a long one, hopefully about 8 hours or so 



> Family of Origin... means issues with your mom, nuclear family, etc.


Ah, I see, thanks for explaining it. I discussed a lot of family/childhood issues during IC earlier today.


----------



## MSC71

Just remember. ...if she contacts you or replies to a message you sent, you don't have to respond. Especially if you are trying to defend yourself against her accusations. Its a lost cause doing that. Trust me. I have been there and tried to defend myself till my face turned blue. I now know it's a waste of breath. Nothing you can say will sway the other persons view. Hang tough. It gets better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

MSC71 said:


> Just remember. ...if she contacts you or replies to a message you sent, you don't have to respond. Especially if you are trying to defend yourself against her accusations. Its a lost cause doing that. Trust me. I have been there and tried to defend myself till my face turned blue. I now know it's a waste of breath. Nothing you can say will sway the other persons view. Hang tough. It gets better.


Yeah I know .

She left me a voicemail this morning saying that her wages have been paid in to my account, and she has no money, and that her mother is in hospital and she wants to go visit.

I checked my account and her money isn't there. I feel really bad for her, which is probably what she intended, but it's not my responsibility to bail her out any longer.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I know .
> 
> She left me a voicemail this morning saying that her wages have been paid in to my account, and she has no money, and that her mother is in hospital and she wants to go visit.
> 
> I checked my account and her money isn't there. I feel really bad for her, which is probably what she intended, but it's not my responsibility to bail her out any longer.


I'm not sure why she assumed it had been paid in to my account, considering it's been going in to hers just fine for the weeks prior to this one.

I still haven't kicked the cigarettes unfortunately, they're my "go to" when I'm stressed out it seems. I'm going to speak with my doctor about this when I see him next month, and if I haven't managed to kick them by then, I'll ask for some nicotine replacement therapy.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm really worried about her and her lack of finances.

Why am I worried? Why should I worry? It's not my problem anymore so why am I stressing over it? :scratchhead:

I kind of just want to give her some money, but that's just my Nice Guy tendencies, again. I want to rescue her.


----------



## LongWalk

Each cigarette reduces your your maleness. You don't need anything from the doctor. Just crumble each cigarette over a garbage can and say I am not going to destroy and degrade my blood circulation to make some shareholders in Philip Morris richer.

By the way, since she got you to quit smoking, by resuming you are proving to yourself that you cannot live without her:

"She made me better. She left and I am back to smoking. Smoking is for losers. She left – I am a loser. My junk will be soft and useless but who cares, I have no woman."

Go to f'ing Cross Fit and get your self confidence back. Your will suffer but no pain, no gain. 

re: her missing pay check

Let her starve. Not your problem. She is just trying to get a rise out of you but nothing will come of it. Ignore her. If she wants to reconcile, you need to seriously examine your powers of reason. She needs IC.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Each cigarette reduces your your maleness. You don't need anything from the doctor. Just crumble each cigarette over a garbage can and say I am not going to destroy and degrade my blood circulation to make some shareholders in Philip Morris richer.
> 
> By the way, since she got you to quit smoking, by resuming you are proving to yourself that you cannot live without her:
> 
> "She made me better. She left and I am back to smoking. Smoking is for losers. She left – I am a loser. My junk will be soft and useless but who cares, I have no woman."
> 
> Go to f'ing Cross Fit and get your self confidence back. Your will suffer but no pain, no gain.
> 
> re: her missing pay check
> 
> Let her starve. Not your problem. She is just trying to get a rise out of you but nothing will come of it. Ignore her. If she wants to reconcile, you need to seriously examine your powers of reason. She needs IC.


I'm aware of the dangers of smoking. It's a vice for me, a bad habit, I use it as a crutch when stressed. I know this isn't good, the last two days have been particularly tough though.

I've been working out at home, and will join the gym with my friends at the start of November - I'm really looking forward to it.

She does need IC, she was supposed to be getting it through her employer, but I don't know if this has happened yet, or if it's going to.


----------



## GotLifeBack

She doesn't want to reconcile by the way - she has given me no reason to believe that to be the case.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm worrying about her still. I want to ask her if she's managed to get her money sorted out. I won't because it's not my business, and it's not my job to worry about her.

When we spoke briefly earlier, it was very amicable. The amicable conversations are always the hardest. They breed hope, they make me want to carry on talking to her, they intensify my feelings for her. The sad thing is I enjoy our amicable chats.

Regardless of my enjoyment, I cut the conversation off. 

I'm half glad that I cut it off, and I'm half upset that I did. That needy & longing part of me feels like we could have had a nice chat today.

Let it go WWB, it's for the best.


----------



## Conrad

Remove your focus from her.

What do you like to to?


----------



## oviid

It's the same for me. When we talk, laugh and get along it makes me wonder why that does not translate to us being happy together and working it out. But I believe that thought pattern is toxic and only serves to hurt me further. I'm trying not to entertain those thoughts.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Remove your focus from her.
> 
> What do you like to to?


I've been trying to have a laugh with my colleagues, which is helping me focus on something other than her.

I also went out at lunch and bought myself a CD to listen to later. The girl at the checkout was majorly flirting with me - nice ego boost.

I like to do all sorts, I like to read, I like to draw, I like to play guitar, I like to play PC games, I like to socialise.



> It's the same for me. When we talk, laugh and get along it makes me wonder why that does not translate to us being happy together and working it out. But I believe that thought pattern is toxic and only serves to hurt me further. I'm trying not to entertain those thoughts.


It is a very toxic thought pattern and it leads only to weakness and more hurt.

I'm trying to get out of that thought pattern.

Based on the language my STBXW used earlier, and her tone of voice in the voicemail she left, she's starting to feel the effects of being self-sufficient. She sounded extremely miserable.


----------



## Conrad

PLAN to do things you like to do - and do them with zest.

Fill your days and keep busy.

If you just drift in an out of things on whim, you'll just continue to wallow over her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> PLAN to do things you like to do - and do them with zest.
> 
> Fill your days and keep busy.
> 
> If you just drift in an out of things on whim, you'll just continue to wallow over her.


I've got my entire weekend planned out well in advance, and I'm not going to have time to wallow this weekend.

Weekdays are different, due to using public transport to commute, my 7.5 hour working day becomes 11.5 hours. By the time I get home, sort out the house, cook dinner and so on, I have very little time for plans, if I'm lucky I'll get a couple of hours free. I usually just listen to music, play games or pick up my guitar.

I find the guitar extremely therapeutic. I can get lost in it for extended periods of time quite easily.


----------



## MSC71

Dont read into anything she says. Don't get your hopes up. Trust me. I tried to analyze everything. Looking for that little bit of hope. It only prolonged my misery.


----------



## GotLifeBack

MSC71 said:


> Dont read into anything she says. Don't get your hopes up. Trust me. I tried to analyze everything. Looking for that little bit of hope. It only prolonged my misery.


This is very true, I know this - I'm trying my best not to .

I found out today that she has blocked me on facebook rather than having deactivated her account. Do you know if this means she can't see me either?

I'm not sure why but learning this actually hurt a little bit. Weird.

I guess I'm just sad at her hatred/dislike towards me. I never thought she'd be like this towards me. Some of the things she has said to me I wouldn't ever say to anyone, no matter how angry I was at them, or how much I hated them.

I really just want to let go completely now, but it's not something I can force .


----------



## Conrad

WWB,

What percentage of your posts would you say are about her vs. about you?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> What percentage of your posts would you say are about her vs. about you?


I'd say the majority are about her . I couldn't give an exact ratio, but maybe 70/30?

I get what your saying - "Don't focus on her". I am trying not to, but I focused on nothing other than her for 6 years. I neglected friends, I neglected family.

Luckily I had a few real friends who despite all this, are here for me.

Some days I do better at focusing on me, other days I just think about her constantly.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I really just want to let go completely now, but it's not something I can force .


It took time to fall in love and it takes time to detach. I've heard everything from one month per year, to one year per year (yikes!).

Give it time and follow your program to work on you. It will get better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> It took time to fall in love and it takes time to detach. I've heard everything from one month per year, to one year per year (yikes!).
> 
> Give it time and follow your program to work on you. It will get better.


I've heard both of those. I've also heard it takes double the time that the relationship lasted! I'll be like 38 by then! f*ck that.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'd say the majority are about her . I couldn't give an exact ratio, but maybe 70/30?
> 
> I get what your saying - "Don't focus on her". I am trying not to, but I focused on nothing other than her for 6 years.


Time to grow up, don't you think?


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm worrying about her still. I want to ask her if she's managed to get her money sorted out. I won't because it's not my business, and it's not my job to worry about her.
> 
> When we spoke briefly earlier, it was very amicable. The amicable conversations are always the hardest. They breed hope, they make me want to carry on talking to her, they intensify my feelings for her. The sad thing is I enjoy our amicable chats.
> 
> Regardless of my enjoyment, I cut the conversation off.
> 
> I'm half glad that I cut it off, and I'm half upset that I did. That needy & longing part of me feels like we could have had a nice chat today.
> 
> Let it go WWB, it's for the best.


I know how you feel. I have the same issues. But we do have to let them go. It is for the best, even if its hard to see.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I'd say the majority are about her . I couldn't give an exact ratio, but maybe 70/30?
> 
> I get what your saying - "Don't focus on her". I am trying not to, but I focused on nothing other than her for 6 years. I neglected friends, I neglected family.
> 
> Luckily I had a few real friends who despite all this, are here for me.
> 
> Some days I do better at focusing on me, other days I just think about her constantly.


WWB, if you neglected people in your life, wouldn't this be a good time to reach out to them.

Also, why don't you try not talking to her. Make the text conversations short and don't talk to her on the phone. Might help.


----------



## MSC71

She cant see you on facebook either if she blocks you. I would go ahead and block her too.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I've heard both of those. I've also heard it takes double the time that the relationship lasted! I'll be like 38 by then! f*ck that.


For what it's worth, here's my timeline: I found out 6 months ago that she was leaving. She moved out 4 months ago. I'm dating again. We filed for our divorce last week and it may be done as soon as Dec 1 (or sooner!).

I'm not detached completely, but pretty hugely.

I moved fast, because I was unhappy too, and I did a lot of work to realize it.

I think a month per year is about right, but it depends on the person and the work. Some people get stuck for years. Or they're so badly hurt and betrayed that their ability to trust is badly damaged and they don't recover. 

Do you work with IC, here, journal, think about and embrace your mistakes, commit to change and feel the emotional roller coaster day to day. You'll come out of this a different person (I will say a better person), but you will come out. 

I'm not there yet, but I think one day you just realize you haven't thought about her and how angry you are at her, how much you miss her, how much you long for the future you had planned. Even now, I have hours at work or home that I will not think of her and when I do it's a surprise that I was able to disengage for so long.

You have no choice but to move on, but you can choose how you move on. I don't believe you will get stuck, due to my experience with you, but keep moving, accepting, reflecting and focusing elsewhere. You'll make it through.

One day you'll look back years from now and realize how you weren't happy, feel bittersweet about the good and bad times and be satisfied with where you that day. One day, just not tomorrow.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> For what it's worth, here's my timeline: I found out 6 months ago that she was leaving. She moved out 4 months ago. I'm dating again. We filed for our divorce last week and it may be done as soon as Dec 1 (or sooner!).
> 
> I'm not detached completely, but pretty hugely.
> 
> I moved fast, because I was unhappy too, and I did a lot of work to realize it.
> 
> I think a month per year is about right, but it depends on the person and the work. Some people get stuck for years. Or they're so badly hurt and betrayed that their ability to trust is badly damaged and they don't recover.
> 
> Do you work with IC, here, journal, think about and embrace your mistakes, commit to change and feel the emotional roller coaster day to day. You'll come out of this a different person (I will say a better person), but you will come out.
> 
> I'm not there yet, but I think one day you just realize you haven't thought about her and how angry you are at her, how much you miss her, how much you long for the future you had planned. Even now, I have hours at work or home that I will not think of her and when I do it's a surprise that I was able to disengage for so long.
> 
> You have no choice but to move on, but you can choose how you move on. I don't believe you will get stuck, due to my experience with you, but keep moving, accepting, reflecting and focusing elsewhere. You'll make it through.
> 
> One day you'll look back years from now and realize how you weren't happy, feel bittersweet about the good and bad times and be satisfied with where you that day. One day, just not tomorrow.


I guess it's still early days for me.

I guess there were some things I was unhappy with too, but I'd rather have worked on them than thrown it all away. It'll be 7 weeks tomorrow that she left.

I do feel like I'm improving - I think it was you that said that it's a week by week thing rather than day by day, and I'd agree with that. My ability to trust has been fairly shaken though.

I still think about her a lot, I look forward to thinking about her less. It's always a downer, when I think about her.

I hope one back I can look back and see happy memories, rather than loss.

I didn't hear from her on our anniversary - not entirely sure if I'm happy about that or not. I have thought about her an awful lot this weekend, probably because we had contact last week, I really wish we hadn't not as speaking to her is no doubt a set back.


----------



## angstire

Don't worry about the backslides, your progress arc is on the right track. Just recognize them and do better next time.

Yes, week by week is the metric. Day by day can be impacted too much by memories or other stressors on a given day. If you're detaching and focusing on you more each week, you're doing really well.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Don't worry about the backslides, your progress arc is on the right track. Just recognize them and do better next time.
> 
> Yes, week by week is the metric. Day by day can be impacted too much by memories or other stressors on a given day. If you're detaching and focusing on you more each week, you're doing really well.


I guess when love is involved backslides are inevitable, I guess I just need to try to ignore my instincts, which is easier said than done. But, I'm sure I'll manage .

I do feel like I'm detaching somewhat - compared to when she left I'm much improved. I still think about her a lot, but it doesn't have the same emotional impact that it did. The first two weeks, I couldn't even think about her without crying. 

Didn't have a good day today really, but I'm a little hungover, and that never helps.


----------



## Conrad

When codependence is involved.

When pride and competition are involved...

When cosmic scorecards are involved.

Backslides are inevitable


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> When codependence is involved.
> 
> When pride and competition are involved...
> 
> When cosmic scorecards are involved.
> 
> Backslides are inevitable


Very true. 

I spoke to her briefly yesterday, and send my best to my MIL who is in hospital currently. I didn't ask why she was in hospital though. My MIL & FIL are nice people and I was quite close with them. They were fond of me, although that has most likely changed now.

When we spoke it was all very civil, but quite formal. I guess that's something at least. 

I spent way too much time thinking about her yesterday, more than I have any other day for quite a while. Feeling a bit stronger today, but I still miss my best friend. I miss her company and her companionship, and her affection.

But, there'll be other women in my life eventually I'm sure. 

I'm making a conscious effort to not end up like my father, my mother left us around 12 years ago now, and he has never moved on, never dated, he's just given up. I won't be that guy.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm making a conscious effort to not end up like my father, my mother left us around 12 years ago now, and he has never moved on, never dated, he's just given up. I won't be that guy.


Why so harsh on ole Dad?

There's nothing wrong with choosing to live a single, solitary life.

In fact, if you can't be happy and fulfilled living alone, then you will most likely make someone a lousy partner.

I'm wondering if there's something more to "I won't be that guy".:scratchhead:


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Why so harsh on ole Dad?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with choosing to live a single, solitary life.
> 
> In fact, if you can't be happy and fulfilled living alone, then you will most likely make someone a lousy partner.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something more to "I won't be that guy".:scratchhead:


I don't mean to be harsh on him, but he should have gotten out there. When she left he was 40, he's now 52, and he says he's "too old" to meet someone, or "I don't go out". I tell him to start.

I know that "I won't be that guy" isn't good, but I just don't want to end up spending every spare moment in front of the TV on my own eating junk. 

I'm not necessarily chastising him for remaining solitary, but I've seen what it's done to him, he's never really moved on. I'm terrified of ending up like that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I was forwarding a message on from my STBXW to my sister who was curious to see how she's been talking to me.

I accidentally forwarded it on to my STBXW.

Slightly embarrassing.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I was forwarding a message on from my STBXW to my sister who was curious to see how she's been talking to me.
> 
> I accidentally forwarded it on to my STBXW.
> 
> Slightly embarrassing.


Wait.

You are forwarding your STBX's texts to your sister?

Really?


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Wait.
> 
> You are forwarding your STBX's texts to your sister?
> 
> Really?


Yeah, my sister wanted to know what she had said and if she was civil. It's easier to forward than type out a whole text....

As a result, me and the STBX seem to be having an amicable conversation. I'm going to cut the conversation soon.

I have realised today that even if we were to get back together, I just don't think I could trust her. She's just done too much to hurt me.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm going to cut the conversation soon.


This is getting repetitive.

Are you waiting for something to happen?


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> This is getting repetitive.
> 
> Are you waiting for something to happen?


No because nothing will happen. I know nothing will happen. The amount of times she has told me there's no possibility of us getting back together, I think I finally believe it now.

I don't love her anymore either, just the memory of what we had.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not necessarily chastising him for remaining solitary, but I've seen what it's done to him, he's never really moved on. I'm terrified of ending up like that.


Wow, that is really sad. I hear what you are saying about not wanting to end up like that. I certainly feel like there is a chance I spend the rest of of my days alone too. It's pretty preposterous I feel this way...I'm only 28. In reality though, _I know_ I won't end up alone in the long run and you won't either. We're both just feeling the pain of heartbreak and it's going to take awhile for us to start seeing things more clearly.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Wow, that is really sad. I hear what you are saying about not wanting to end up like that. I certainly feel like there is a chance I spend the rest of of my days alone too. It's pretty preposterous I feel this way...I'm only 28. In reality though,_I know_ I won't end up alone in the long run and you won't either. We're both just feeling the pain of heartbreak and it's going to take awhile for us to start seeing things more clearly.


I know, I'm soon going to be 26 and when I think like that I remind myself that I have a lot of years ahead of me.

I'm starting to feel like I need to get out there and meet some women . Going out for Halloween this weekend should be a decent opportunity.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm starting to feel like I need to get out there and meet some women . Going out for Halloween this weekend should be a decent opportunity.


You definitely should. It will make you fell _a little_ better. I just joined an online dating site and a woman messaged me and we have a date in about a week. I won't lie, it is kind of exciting. It's been so long since I have gone out with another woman. I still wish my marriage could of been fixed, but the thought of my future being an open book and completely controlled by me is kind of cool. I always wished my wife and I had more in common and now I _actually can_ find someone more like myself. The unknown can be both scary and exciting. We just need to learn to embrace the latter.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> You definitely should. It will make you fell _a little_ better. I just joined an online dating site and a woman messaged me and we have a date in about a week. I won't lie, it is kind of exciting. It's been so long since I have gone out with another woman. I still wish my marriage could of been fixed, but the thought of my future being an open book and completely controlled by me is kind of cool. I always wished my wife and I had more in common and now I _actually can_ find someone more like myself. The unknown can be both scary and exciting. We just need to learn to embrace the latter.


I know what you mean - I have so much more freedom and so many more possibilities now. Whilst I miss my wife, and I am scared of the unknown, it is also quite exciting. 

It's only been 7 weeks since she left, so maybe I'll give it a little longer before I get back in to the dating game... Starting to contemplate the idea though.


----------



## KnottedStomach

Brokenman85 said:


> The unknown can be both scary and exciting. We just need to learn to embrace the latter.


I agree with that.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I know what you mean - I have so much more freedom and so many more possibilities now. Whilst I miss my wife, and I am scared of the unknown, it is also quite exciting.
> 
> It's only been 7 weeks since she left, so maybe I'll give it a little longer before I get back in to the dating game... Starting to contemplate the idea though.


Good for you WWB. Get out there.


----------



## angstire

WWB, you're only 26. You have plenty of time. I know you feel bummed now, but it will get better.

This isn't meant as cruel, but hey, you've got time for at least a half dozen girlfriends and couple more divorces. 

Or at least time to know you, focus on you and have relationships that are good for you from now on. Plenty of time WWB. Enjoy it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Good for you WWB. Get out there.


Well, coincidentally a woman actually asked me to go out for a drink with her this weekend, but I've already got plans. 

I'm not entirely sure that I'm ready yet anyway so it's probably for the best.

After speaking to the STBXW earlier, we are going to try to be friends. I set a boundary though, and told her that if it begins to hurt me, or if my feelings for her begin to return, that I'll be walking away.

I'm not sure if it'll be a sustainable friendship, or if it's even a good idea, but I gotta try right? Whilst I don't love her any more, I do still care for her a lot and she's having a rough time with her mother being in hospital.

I know I probably shouldn't care after everything, but I do and I don't know how to change that really. I'll always care for her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> WWB, you're only 26. You have plenty of time. I know you feel bummed now, but it will get better.
> 
> This isn't meant as cruel, but hey, you've got time for at least a half dozen girlfriends and couple more divorces.
> 
> Or at least time to know you, focus on you and have relationships that are good for you from now on. Plenty of time WWB. Enjoy it.


I know I do  My life is mine to do what I want with, which is the way it should have always been.

No more divorces - I'm not remarrying, ever .

Yeah I'm focusing on myself a lot lately, and I think I'm getting to know myself quite quickly. Still a lot to know, but I'm pleased with what I've learned so far .


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> After speaking to the STBXW earlier, we are going to try to be friends. I set a boundary though, and told her that if it begins to hurt me, or if my feelings for her begin to return, that I'll be walking away.


*It will hurt you*. I'm sorry but I don't see you being friends with her is a realistic option. As people have explained before, friends don't hurt other friends. She has hurt you too much to overlook what she has done. She just wants to be "friends" to help her ease her own guilt. Just let her go. You don't have kids....cut the cord completely. I know it hurts man....I know.


----------



## angstire

:iagree:

Yep


----------



## warlock07

> After speaking to the STBXW earlier, we are going to try to be friends. I set a boundary though, and told her that if it begins to hurt me, or if my feelings for her begin to return, that I'll be walking away.


this is going to end in failure. you and your wife are too immature to go through with it. You must like humiliation and constant feelings of rejection.


----------



## Conrad

WWB,

Friends, eh?

Visualize the future with her confiding in you about her wonderful new boyfriend.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Friends, eh?
> 
> Visualize the future with her confiding in you about her wonderful new boyfriend.


:rofl::lol:


----------



## MSC71

You wanting to be friends means you are hoping for more. her wanting to be friends is only to ease her guilt and be a cake eater.


----------



## FC Dynamite

WWB,

Follow my step by step program for getting over your wife

1) Disregard STBXW
2) Acquire aesthetics
3) Acquire self confidence with new aesthetics
4) Bang sloots

Not serious... but semi-serious. Naw, I'm totally being serious.


----------



## MSC71

I can confirm #4 works.


----------



## philglossop

Mate just catching up with your thread, trust me the trying to be friends just doesn't work as I've discovered to my own cost over the last few months. 

It's taken me 7 months to break the circle with my now XH and I had endure the lovely statement that I should get on with his new partner because he's fantastic. I nearly got into serious trouble when I heard that but managed to just hold my temper (and trust me I'm not the violent, nasty type by any stretch). When I refused, I got the same "victim" response calling me every name under the sun.

That was the point I walked totally away for ever. And you know what- boy does it feel better.

Friends? Never. We're strangers who just happen to share a common past.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Friends, eh?
> 
> Visualize the future with her confiding in you about her wonderful new boyfriend.


Yeah, the thought has already crossed my mind. Maybe I'll just leave the friends thing - I don't really see any good coming of it to be honest. At least, not yet. I guess I just don't know what I want from her really. I know I should want *nothing* but emotionally is a different story. 



> this is going to end in failure. you and your wife are too immature to go through with it. You must like humiliation and constant feelings of rejection.


Hmm, nah I don't think I do enjoy this really.



> WWB,
> 
> Follow my step by step program for getting over your wife
> 
> 1) Disregard STBXW
> 2) Acquire aesthetics
> 3) Acquire self confidence with new aesthetics
> 4) Bang sloots
> 
> Not serious... but semi-serious. Naw, I'm totally being serious.


#1 is the toughest one - If I could do this I wouldn't have a problem  

#2 isn't too difficult really, just need to put the work in!

#3 goes hand in hand with #2

#4 is something that I don't really want to end up doing if I can help it, I don't want to devalue myself .



> Mate just catching up with your thread, trust me the trying to be friends just doesn't work as I've discovered to my own cost over the last few months.
> 
> It's taken me 7 months to break the circle with my now XH and I had endure the lovely statement that I should get on with his new partner because he's fantastic. I nearly got into serious trouble when I heard that but managed to just hold my temper (and trust me I'm not the violent, nasty type by any stretch). When I refused, I got the same "victim" response calling me every name under the sun.
> 
> That was the point I walked totally away for ever. And you know what- boy does it feel better.
> 
> Friends? Never. We're strangers who just happen to share a common past.


I need to break that circle too, it's just difficult getting to that point, we had no contact for over two weeks, and since we've been contacting one another again, it's just made things harder.

I don't want to be there to witness her getting with someone else, hell she probably already is!

Strangers with a common past, I like that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

MSC71 said:


> You wanting to be friends means you are hoping for more. her wanting to be friends is only to ease her guilt and be a cake eater.


I guess, but at the same time I don't want her to feel guilty, I don't wish anything bad for her, even though I probably should.

Tough one .


----------



## RandomDude

In my case, I'm too much of a harda$$
In your case, you're too much of a softie

How about I do what you suggested I do in my situation, and you do what I suggested you do in yours? See what happens!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> In my case, I'm too much of a harda$$
> In your case, you're too much of a softie
> 
> How about I do what you suggested I do in my situation, and you do what I suggested you do in yours? See what happens!


Yeah I think you're right, I am too soft!

What do you suggest I do?


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I think the STBXW has a new man - she keeps saying how she feels so much sexier now, so I baited her. I said that "I'm glad that someone is making you feel that way" to which she just replied "Yah" and then changed the subject.

Obviously that's very vague, perhaps that was her intention, I don't know.

Surprisingly I don't really seem to care - At first I guess I did for half an hour or so I felt kinda down, but now I'm just feeling pretty indifferent.


----------



## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I think you're right, I am too soft!
> 
> What do you suggest I do?


Harden up, it's as simple as that

My situation is different, as STBX came forward with reconciliation and I shot her down because I was confused in regards to how I felt due to the hardening.

In your situation however it's very clear where you stand when it comes to your STBX; right at her feet. It's not a very good position, and it stinks. You have no kids, just cut loose, cut contact and free yourself from her already.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Harden up, it's as simple as that
> 
> My situation is different, as STBX came forward with reconciliation and I shot her down because I was confused in regards to how I felt due to the hardening.
> 
> In your situation however it's very clear where you stand when it comes to your STBX; right at her feet. It's not a very good position, and it stinks. You have no kids, just cut loose, cut contact and free yourself from her already.


I don't stand at her feet any longer, I used to, for a very long time. I'd like to think I'm more equal now.

I am going to need to cut contact though. I'm nowhere near as in to her as I was, I mean, physically she's gorgeous, but other than that, I just don't think she's LTR material. Definitely not marriage material. I don't want to jeopardise my recovery though, although I have no feelings for her, I am enjoying talking to her - this could lead down a bad path.


----------



## RandomDude

Equal? Nah, things are rarely equal, somebody's holding the ball and based on what's been mentioned thus far that somebody doesn't seem to be you.

Stop playing the pointless game, cut contact and that means -> no friends. Even my STBXW was smart enough to tell me "I'm not ready to be friends" recently as a response to me rejecting her, even if we can never cut contact due to co-parenting. 

You have a real luxury having no kids - use it!


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> After speaking to the STBXW earlier, *we are going to try to be friends*. I set a boundary though, and told her that if it begins to hurt me, or if my feelings for her begin to return, that I'll be walking away.



WTF? :slap:

You are nowhere near even contemplating this.

You can't be friends with someone you are in NC with. (Remember NC? It's what you are supposed to be doing).

Get right with yourself first then maybe you can revisit this and decide what's best for you.




WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not sure if it'll be a sustainable friendship, or if it's even a good idea, but I gotta try right? Whilst* I don't love her any more*, I do still care for her a lot and she's having a rough time with her mother being in hospital.


:bsflag:

Feel free to lie to her. Don't lie to yourself. 

Who says you have to try to be friends with someone that treated you like sh!t? 

WWB - you're regressing. You need to re-read your thread. Start from the beginning.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Equal? Nah, things are rarely equal, somebody's holding the ball and based on what's been mentioned thus far that somebody doesn't seem to be you.
> 
> Stop playing the pointless game, cut contact and that means -> no friends. Even my STBXW was smart enough to tell me "I'm not ready to be friends" recently as a response to me rejecting her, even if we can never cut contact due to co-parenting.
> 
> You have a real luxury having no kids - use it!


Neither of us can hold the ball on this one, the ball has been dropped. 

I know it's pointless - I'll cut contact again, just trying to decide whether to just stop or tell her that I'm cutting contact. 

No kids is a blessing, we were going to have kids someday, and she kept asking to try, I'm pretty glad that I didn't back down on that one now.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I know it's pointless - I'll cut contact again, just trying to decide whether to just stop or tell her that I'm cutting contact.


Less talk. Just do it.

Let your actions speak.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> WTF? :slap:
> 
> You are nowhere near even contemplating this.
> 
> You can't be friends with someone you are in NC with. (Remember NC? It's what you are supposed to be doing).
> 
> Get right with yourself first then maybe you can revisit this and decide what's best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :bsflag:
> 
> Feel free to lie to her. Don't lie to yourself.
> 
> Who says you have to try to be friends with someone that treated you like sh!t?
> 
> WWB - you're regressing. You need to re-read your thread. Start from the beginning.


You're right Ceegee, as always . I will cut contact again. I do need to get completely right with myself - making a little progress isn't enough.

I genuinely don't feel like I love her any more, I care for her, but I don't think I love her. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Less talk. Just do it.
> 
> Let your actions speak.


I like this idea best, I think this is the way it has to be.

I've been thinking a lot about the being "friends" thing, and I can't see any happy outcome.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I know it's pointless - I'll cut contact again, just trying to decide whether to just stop or tell her that I'm cutting contact.


Think about why you are contemplating telling her why you are cutting contact.

Because you think you should explain it to her so she won't be mad at you or hurt.

You are thinking about her feelings instead of your own.

Codependency.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WWB, I know it's hard to let go of someone you wanted to be with for so long. But don't go backwards. As painful as it is, you have to let her go, and move forward.

As I wrote in another thread, what I think helps - write a list of everything that went wrong in your relationship with your spouse (all the problems, issues, personality differences, whatever it is) and keep it somewhere where you know you are going to see it everyday. It might help fight the urge to reach out to them. After a while, you wont need the list.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Think about why you are contemplating telling her why you are cutting contact.
> 
> Because you think you should explain it to her so she won't be mad at you or hurt.
> 
> You are thinking about her feelings instead of your own.
> 
> Codependency.


Yep, I am putting her feelings before mine - I'm not going to do this, I'm just going to go quiet on her without warning.

She can be as mad and as hurt as she likes, I just need to get out of the habit of thinking that if she's mad and hurt, it will somehow affect me. It won't. 

I still haven't read "Codependent No More" but it's on my list!


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> WWB, I know it's hard to let go of someone you wanted to be with for so long. But don't go backwards. As painful as it is, you have to let her go, and move forward.
> 
> As I wrote in another thread, what I think helps - write a list of everything that went wrong in your relationship with your spouse (all the problems, issues, personality differences, whatever it is) and keep it somewhere where you know you are going to see it everyday. It might help fight the urge to reach out to them. After a while, you wont need the list.


Yeah, it is hard, but not impossible, and I do like a challenge . I guess one of the hardest things is letting go of the future we had planned together.

I have a list in my journal of all the things, sometimes I re-read that. It does help .

I know that things will get better in time .


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Letting go of the future..That's the hard part for me too. It makes it even harder knowing that this person I vowed to love forever has already stopped looking towards the future.

Just by reading through your thread I can see that you've come a long way in the past month, you're doing well. I hope I can find the strength you have found!


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Letting go of the future..That's the hard part for me too. It makes it even harder knowing that this person I vowed to love forever has already stopped looking towards the future.
> 
> Just by reading through your thread I can see that you've come a long way in the past month, you're doing well. I hope I can find the strength you have found!


We don't know how strong we truly are until we are faced with no other option but to be. You'll find your strength too I assure you  You just need to remember your worth. Remember what you have to offer in a relationship, but more importantly, remember what you have to offer to yourself.

It's easy to feel like your world is imploding around you, I did for a while. But the reality is, the world isn't imploding around you, it's just changing.

Change doesn't take sides, it isn't good, and it isn't bad. It's what you make it.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> We don't know how strong we truly are until we are faced with no other option but to be. You'll find your strength too I assure you  You just need to remember your worth. Remember what you have to offer in a relationship, but more importantly, remember what you have to offer to yourself.
> 
> It's easy to feel like your world is imploding around you, I did for a while. But the reality is, the world isn't imploding around you, it's just changing.
> 
> Change doesn't take sides, it isn't good, and it isn't bad. It's what you make it.


This is all so true. I need to write it down and carry it with me. I keep telling myself that I have to be okay, simply because I have no other choice at this point. I know I need to take care of myself and my daughter, and continue living my life. The only thing different is there is one less person involved, which I have no control over.

It's easy to write. Hopefully it gets easier to live by! Have I mentioned that I HATE change..?


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> This is all so true. I need to write it down and carry it with me. I keep telling myself that I have to be okay, simply because I have no other choice at this point. I know I need to take care of myself and my daughter, and continue living my life. The only thing different is there is one less person involved, which I have no control over.
> 
> It's easy to write. Hopefully it gets easier to live by! Have I mentioned that I HATE change..?


Exactly, you and your daughter are what's important now . There is one less person involved now yeah, but that won't always be the case. 

Being left by someone is like being stuck in a long, dark tunnel. At first, you just don't know what you are doing or where you are going, but you keep pushing forwards. You get scared in the dark, and you can still see the light behind you, so you take a few steps back towards the light. But then you realise that you need to get to the other end of the tunnel, and move forward again. Eventually you see a little glimmer of light at the other end of the tunnel, but it seems so far away, the light behind you still seems closer. Keep on keeping on and after time, the light in front of you becomes brighter and nearer, and the one behind you fades away.

I used to fear change, now I embrace it and try to make the most of it.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Exactly, you and your daughter are what's important now . There is one less person involved now yeah, but that won't always be the case.
> 
> Being left by someone is like being stuck in a long, dark tunnel. At first, you just don't know what you are doing or where you are going, but you keep pushing forwards. You get scared in the dark, and you can still see the light behind you, so you take a few steps back towards the light. But then you realise that you need to get to the other end of the tunnel, and move forward again. Eventually you see a little glimmer of light at the other end of the tunnel, but it seems so far away, the light behind you still seems closer. Keep on keeping on and after time, the light in front of you becomes brighter and nearer, and the one behind you fades away.
> 
> I used to fear change, now I embrace it and try to make the most of it.


I think right now my tunnel is dark at both ends  it's a long way forward to the light at the end, and the one behind me seems to have flickered and died as my husband has disconnected from me over the past month.

Have you made it to the end of your tunnel yet?


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I think right now my tunnel is dark at both ends  it's a long way forward to the light at the end, and the one behind me seems to have flickered and died as my husband has disconnected from me over the past month.
> 
> Have you made it to the end of your tunnel yet?


Keep on going until you see the light on the other side.

Nope, for the last few days I seem to have made camp right in the middle of my tunnel, the light at both ends is equally bright. I haven't made any progress and it's my own fault. I'm feeling like packing up and carrying on though .

It's a very long tunnel. I'll be in here for a while.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Keep on going until you see the light on the other side.
> 
> Nope, for the last few days I seem to have made camp right in the middle of my tunnel, the light at both ends is equally bright. I haven't made any progress and it's my own fault. I'm feeling like packing up and carrying on though .
> 
> It's a very long tunnel. I'll be in here for a while.


There's nothing wrong with taking a break in the middle, as long as you continue on in the right direction


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> There's nothing wrong with taking a break in the middle, as long as you continue on in the right direction


I intend to . 

I'm not sure what's at the other end of the tunnel, but I'll find out when I get there. It's kind of exciting.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, a little update....

The woman who asked me out for a drink yesterday, is now inviting me to her house....

I might actually go.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> So, a little update....
> 
> The woman who asked me out for a drink yesterday, is now inviting me to her house....
> 
> I might actually go.


:smthumbup: If you're up to it, why not?


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> :smthumbup: If you're up to it, why not?


I'm not so sure... maybe I will, I don't know.

I guess no harm could come of it and I could always use more friends.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Actually, I'm just going to go. Gotta get back in to it some time right? Will be a good trial run.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

I believe if you go into it with no expectations, it could be a good thing. Who knows where it could lead, if anywhere at all.

I commend you for going for it, if you choose. I also would understand if you changed your mind. It's gotta be a tough decision, I can't even imagine it at this point. Either way, you'll be happy because YOU made the choice, for YOUrself!

Maybe I'll just stay here in the middle of my tunnel for now, it's warm and comfy. :sleeping:


----------



## angstire

KnottedStomach said:


> As I wrote in another thread, what I think helps - write a list of everything that went wrong in your relationship with your spouse (all the problems, issues, personality differences, whatever it is) and keep it somewhere where you know you are going to see it everyday. It might help fight the urge to reach out to them. After a while, you wont need the list.


I did this and it helped. The stuff she did, to remind me who she really is. And the stuff I did, to remind me who I don't want to be.


----------



## MSC71

Any time you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.


----------



## angstire

MSC71 said:


> Any timee you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.


hahahahahahahahahahaha

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## angstire

Oh, yep, balls. check.

No, I won't be your friend, you vampiric harpy. Leave me alone.


----------



## jeffthechef

MSC71 said:


> Any timee you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.



so much YES!!:smthumbup:


----------



## MSC71

Trust me. I check to make sure I have mine lots of times. My checking gets further and further apart as time goes by.


----------



## Brokenman85

MSC71 said:


> Any time you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.


LOL. I will need to remember this technique for myself as well. :lol:


----------



## FC Dynamite

MSC71 said:


> Any time you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.


Oh lord, I literally lol when I read this. Deep down, I'm hoping the majority of us can see our balls without bending over though.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

FC Dynamite said:


> Oh lord, I literally lol when I read this. Deep down, I'm hoping the majority of us can see our balls without bending over though.


What about those of us without balls? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I believe if you go into it with no expectations, it could be a good thing. Who knows where it could lead, if anywhere at all.
> 
> I commend you for going for it, if you choose. I also would understand if you changed your mind. It's gotta be a tough decision, I can't even imagine it at this point. Either way, you'll be happy because YOU made the choice, for YOUrself!
> 
> Maybe I'll just stay here in the middle of my tunnel for now, it's warm and comfy. :sleeping:


Well, I went, figured I could always use more friends, even if I don't want anything more.

It started out quite friendly and nice, but she became increasingly flirty and it got a little bit weird. She kept pulling my sleeves up to look at my tattoos without asking, then she kept poking me and tickling me, then she laid across my lap, and then when she sat up she cuddled up to me and put her head on my shoulder. She kept making innuendos and saying how she needs sex. I felt pretty uncomfortable to be honest, but I think I handled it well.

It's pretty obvious to me what she wanted, but firstly, I'm just not there yet, and secondly, I like a challenge.



> Any time you feel the need to contact your ex, pull down your pants and bend over. If you see balls, then remind yourself not to contact her.


Haha this is brilliant, I'll have to remember this. Might get a bit weird if I'm at work though, no?



> No, I won't be your friend, you vampiric harpy. Leave me alone.


Well, I stopped talking to my ex, she said that she had a lot of studying to do and had to sort her car out for a safety check. 

About and hour and a half after this she text me again saying that it was nice talking to me, I ignored it, and then she text me again trying to start a general conversation, I was very distant with her and in the end she said "Ok, I'll take the hint, have a nice night" - I just replied "Have a nice night too" and that was the last I heard . She was hoping I'd say "Oh no problem, please please keep talking to me".


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> What about those of us without balls? Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm... good question.

Tape a couple of oranges down there?


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, now STBXW is telling me that it's difficult to distinguish between being friends and more....

Confusing statement.

I told her that we both know it can't be more.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> So, now STBXW is telling me that it's difficult to distinguish between being friends and more....
> 
> Confusing statement.
> 
> I told her that we both know it can't be more.


Not confusing from 50k feet.

You'll never get there until you go no contact; but you just can't help yourself can you?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Not confusing from 50k feet.
> 
> You'll never get there until you go no contact; but you just can't help yourself can you?


And how does it look from 50k feet?

In all honesty, since we've been getting on really really well, I'm struggling to go dark on her, we're talking just like we used to and I'm enjoying it... But I know that it's 99% certain that I'm just setting myself up for more hurt.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> And how does it look from 50k feet?
> 
> In all honesty, since we've been getting on really really well, I'm struggling to go dark on her, we're talking just like we used to and I'm enjoying it... But I know that it's 99% certain that I'm just setting myself up for more hurt.


What has she been doing from the beginning?

Nothing has changed.

She still has you where she wants you.

You allow it by continuing to communicate with her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> What has she been doing from the beginning?
> 
> Nothing has changed.
> 
> She still has you where she wants you.
> 
> You allow it by continuing to communicate with her.


She doesn't have me where she wants me, I think that's her reason for saying what she did.

She knows that I don't want to get back together with her, and she knows that I have been seeing other women. Although nothing happened with them by my own choice, I have still been putting myself out there and meeting people.

Perhaps this scares her a little?


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> So, now STBXW is telling me that it's difficult to distinguish between being friends and more....
> 
> Confusing statement.
> 
> I told her that we both know it can't be more.


Why does this confuse you?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Why does this confuse you?


Because I'm not sure what exactly she's trying to say.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> She doesn't have me where she wants me, I think that's her reason for saying what she did.


WWB,

When people get defensive, I start thinking about signing off their threads.

Ceegee has lived this. Listen to him.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> Because I'm not sure what exactly she's trying to say.


Why do you care?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Why do you care?


I guess because I still have some feelings for her... and because part of me still doesn't want it to be over. Especially as the last couple of days she's been "herself" again.



> WWB,
> 
> When people get defensive, I start thinking about signing off their threads.
> 
> Ceegee has lived this. Listen to him.


I didn't intend this to come across as defensive. I was merely expressing my thoughts on the situation.

To a degree she does still have me where she wants me, you're right Ceegee. I'd still like to R with her down the line once I've worked on myself. I need to figure out how to let it go.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I guess because I still have some feelings for her... and because part of me still doesn't want it to be over. Especially as the last couple of days she's been "herself" again.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't intend this to come across as defensive. I was merely expressing my thoughts on the situation.
> 
> To a degree she does still have me where she wants me, you're right Ceegee. I'd still like to R with her down the line once I've worked on myself. *I need to figure out how to let it go.*


I have an idea...why don't you start with no contact.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> I have an idea...why don't you start with no contact.


I don't know what I want. I need to figure it out.

I'll focus on what I do know.

She's hurt me.
I can't go back to what it was.
I can't take her back unless she works on herself too.
I can't take her back until I'm done working on me.
I can't be in her physical presence, and she can't be in mine.
I still have feelings for her.
I still find her very attractive.
I had every intention of spending my life with her.
I miss her.
I don't like the things she's done.
I don't know if I can trust her.
I know I wish I could trust her.
I know that I never wanted this to happen.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> I guess because I still have some feelings for her... and because part of me still doesn't want it to be over. Especially as the last couple of days she's been "herself" again.


I have the same problem, especially when I start seeing remnants of my old H. Just last week I had distanced myself, and begun looking into filing D because I felt that much stronger. A few days later he has begun showing himself a bit more, and being more open with me (even about the tough stuff..) and I'm right back to square one.

Nobody can tell you not to love her, or want her back.. It's up to you. I'm glad you're working on yourself and putting yourself out there, and I'm sure that she's a bit confused at the "new" you. I notice my H has already noted some changes in my personality, and he's not quite sure how to take it.

If you would like to R with her at some point, I would go with your gut. If you guys are getting along well, keep your guard up and go with it. Just remember, you may be setting yourself up for more hurt (I've just had to make this choice myself). Only you can decide, maybe it's time for her to operate on your terms for a while.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't know what I want. I need to figure it out.
> 
> I'll focus on what I do know.
> 
> She's hurt me.
> I can't go back to what it was.
> I can't take her back unless she works on herself too.
> I can't take her back until I'm done working on me.
> I can't be in her physical presence, and she can't be in mine.
> I still have feelings for her.
> I still find her very attractive.
> I had every intention of spending my life with her.
> I miss her.
> I don't like the things she's done.
> I don't know if I can trust her.
> I know I wish I could trust her.
> I know that I never wanted this to happen.


Slow down.

You don't need to know what you want right now.

First, you need to find your peace.

You need to allow for time for these two things to begin.

I can't take her back unless she works on herself too.
I can't take her back until I'm done working on me.​
Talking about what happens after this is premature.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I have the same problem, especially when I start seeing remnants of my old H. Just last week I had distanced myself, and begun looking into filing D because I felt that much stronger. A few days later he has begun showing himself a bit more, and being more open with me (even about the tough stuff..) and I'm right back to square one.
> 
> Nobody can tell you not to love her, or want her back.. It's up to you. I'm glad you're working on yourself and putting yourself out there, and I'm sure that she's a bit confused at the "new" you. I notice my H has already noted some changes in my personality, and he's not quite sure how to take it.
> 
> If you would like to R with her at some point, I would go with your gut. If you guys are getting along well, keep your guard up and go with it. Just remember, you may be setting yourself up for more hurt (I've just had to make this choice myself). Only you can decide, maybe it's time for her to operate on your terms for a while.


I'm just not sure what I want to be honest. I know I was doing really well at detaching from her, but since her comment earlier I'm in a bit of a tailspin. I stayed calm and dispassionate though, and I didn't mention any possibility of R.

The problem is that my heart is saying one thing, and my mind is saying another. My mind is screaming at me to forget about it, and move on, cut her off completely and for good. My heart is screaming to see where this is leading. I just need to figure out which is the loudest.

I think I'm going to have to have some serious quiet time to collect my thoughts tonight.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Slow down.
> 
> You don't need to know what you want right now.
> 
> First, you need to find your peace.
> 
> You need to allow for time for these two things to begin.
> 
> I can't take her back unless she works on herself too.
> I can't take her back until I'm done working on me.​
> Talking about what happens after this is premature.


As always, you are right Ceegee. 

I'm trying my hardest to carry on operating under the belief that there is no hope, but it's difficult.

When we decided to be "friends" I did place the condition on the friendship that if I began to fall for her again, or if our friendship in any way hurt me, I'd be cutting her off. I told her if either of those things happen to her, it's her call what she wants to do about it.

Whilst I'm not "falling for her" all over again, I am realising that I do still have feelings for her, and that it's quite probable that I'll have to enforce my boundary on our friendship.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> The problem is that my heart is saying one thing, and my mind is saying another. My mind is screaming at me to forget about it, and move on, cut her off completely and for good. My heart is screaming to see where this is leading. I just need to figure out which is the loudest.


Instead of listening to the louder of the two, ask yourself which one got you into this mess to begin with.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm just not sure what I want to be honest. I know I was doing really well at detaching from her, but since her comment earlier I'm in a bit of a tailspin. I stayed calm and dispassionate though, and I didn't mention any possibility of R.
> 
> The problem is that my heart is saying one thing, and my mind is saying another. My mind is screaming at me to forget about it, and move on, cut her off completely and for good. My heart is screaming to see where this is leading. I just need to figure out which is the loudest.
> 
> I think I'm going to have to have some serious quiet time to collect my thoughts tonight.


Quiet time always helps. My mom has told me to shut down my heart, because my mind and heart are having this same battle. I tried shutting down my heart, but one conversation and it's back in action.

Definitely take time to collect your thoughts, and don't mention the R. This could cause her to back away, or even cling tighter, neither would make it any easier on you.

I have yet to mention anything regarding R to my H, other than telling him I'm here for him, and our M, if things go well. I had no shame in telling him that I would file for D if I made up my mind to do so as well.

NC sucks, so I can't tell you to do that. Although it would probably be helpful while you make up your mind, it could also push her away (then making up your mind wouldn't even be necessary). So this one is totally up to you. 

Maybe hit the gym with some good, loud music; this is where I do my best thinking


----------



## jeffthechef

I'll just leave this right here...

"Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see". (This will be on my gravestone)


What has she done, to work on herself? Does she even think she needs work?


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Slow down.
> 
> You don't need to know what you want right now.
> 
> First, you need to find your peace.
> 
> You need to allow for time for these two things to begin.
> 
> I can't take her back unless she works on herself too.
> I can't take her back until I'm done working on me.​
> Talking about what happens after this is premature.


Life happens in stages.

This stage isn't close to over.

You will know this stage is over when you've learned something from it.

Your inability to see the path forward is an indication there is more work to do observing the current situation and getting acquainted with yourself.


----------



## Conrad

jeffthechef said:


> I'll just leave this right here...
> 
> "Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see". (This will be on my gravestone)
> 
> 
> What has she done, to work on herself? Does she even think she needs work?


My read is she wishes to assuage her guilt.

And, she's counting on his codependence to bail her out.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> Instead of listening to the louder of the two, ask yourself which one got you into this mess to begin with.


I know which is the culprit, I've always followed my heart though. Sometimes I wish I could ignore it, now being one of them. I try to, but it only lasts for so long. I'm going to make a better effort to ignore it this time.



> What has she done, to work on herself? Does she even think she needs work?


I know before she left she said she needed to work on herself, but I don't know if this is still the case, it hasn't come up in discussion really.



> I tried shutting down my heart, but one conversation and it's back in action.


This is true for me too, which is exactly why I need to go NC. I made a lot of progress over the last two weeks, and now we're talking again I'm struggling with it all.




> Life happens in stages.
> 
> This stage isn't close to over.
> 
> You will know this stage is over when you've learned something from it.
> 
> Your inability to see the path forward is an indication there is more work to do observing the current situation and getting acquainted with yourself.


I know that it isn't close to over. I just wish I could either see the outcome of this stage, or at least decide what I want and put my all in to getting it. I know I still need to do a lot more work on myself, and to observe the situation at 50k.



> My read is she wishes to assuage her guilt.
> 
> And, she's counting on his codependence to bail her out.


You're probably right.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm just not sure what I want to be honest. I know I was doing really well at detaching from her, but since her comment earlier I'm in a bit of a tailspin. I stayed calm and dispassionate though, and I didn't mention any possibility of R.
> 
> The problem is that my heart is saying one thing, and my mind is saying another. My mind is screaming at me to forget about it, and move on, cut her off completely and for good. My heart is screaming to see where this is leading. I just need to figure out which is the loudest.
> 
> I think I'm going to have to have some serious quiet time to collect my thoughts tonight.


Listen to your logical mind, it is trying to protect you. Your heart is arguing for the easy answer, for a want. Your mind (and we) are telling you what you need. NC. Room to work on you. Room to think.

She's manipulating you when she says these things, even if she doesn't intend it consciously. 

Focus on you, protecting yourself or you'll be in the same sh!tstorm marriage you were before within a year.

Now is the time to be selfish. She has been initially, learn from it.

Take quiet time to observe, but she's running a game on you and it's working.

NC. NC. NC. Only then will you get distance and clarity to figure out what you want and need.

You are in a similiar place to me that CeeGee doesn't get the luxury of. You don't have kids, so you don't have to deal with her. CeeGee has to put up with a lot more because there HAS to be contact. The only thing pushing you for her contact is her need to soak up your emotions and give her a fix and your hurt that wants to rescue she and you and make this pain go away.

NC, brother. Do it for you. My stbxw allowed me that space and I am so much better for it. Protect yourself. NC.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Listen to your logical mind, it is trying to protect you. Your heart is arguing for the easy answer, for a want. Your mind (and we) are telling you what you need. NC. Room to work on you. Room to think.
> 
> She's manipulating you when she says these things, even if she doesn't intend it consciously.
> 
> Focus on you, protecting yourself or you'll be in the same sh!tstorm marriage you were before within a year.
> 
> Now is the time to be selfish. She has been initially, learn from it.
> 
> Take quiet time to observe, but she's running a game on you and it's working.
> 
> NC. NC. NC. Only then will you get distance and clarity to figure out what you want and need.
> 
> You are in a similiar place to me that CeeGee doesn't get the luxury of. You don't have kids, so you don't have to deal with her. CeeGee has to put up with a lot more because there HAS to be contact. The only thing pushing you for her contact is her need to soak up your emotions and give her a fix and your hurt that wants to rescue she and you and make this pain go away.
> 
> NC, brother. Do it for you. My stbxw allowed me that space and I am so much better for it. Protect yourself. NC.


I honestly wish she hadn't said that, words like that instill hope, hope that I had worked so hard to let go of. 

I'm glad we don't have kids, although I always wanted her to be the mother of my children, this would be so much more difficult right now if we did.

I was definitely improving during NC, I just need to find that strength again to go dark.


----------



## angstire

PS, she has made no significant changes in two months. It hasn't happened. She's looking for a quick fix, which will end in ruin, if you give it to her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> PS, she has made no significant changes in two months. It hasn't happened. She's looking for a quick fix, which will end in ruin, if you give it to her.


I'm not going to give it to her (the quick fix, I mean )

But in all seriousness, I don't know what changes she has or hasn't made as I've hardly seen her or spoken to her over the last two months.


----------



## Ceegee

WantWifeBack said:


> I honestly wish she hadn't said that, words like that instill hope, hope that I had worked so hard to let go of.


You can eventually get to a place where hearing words like this mean nothing. 

A place where you observe actions to see the real story.

It all begins with __ _______.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> You can eventually get to a place where hearing words like this mean nothing.
> 
> A place where you observe actions to see the real story.
> 
> It all begins with __ _______.


It begins with changing your avatar to a very attractive braying jackass.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> You can eventually get to a place where hearing words like this mean nothing.
> 
> A place where you observe actions to see the real story.
> 
> It all begins with __ _______.


I know.... I'm kind of worried about switching off my emotions though, especially as that was a contributing factor to the downfall of the relationship. I shut her out.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not going to give it to her (the quick fix, I mean )
> 
> But in all seriousness, I don't know what changes she has or hasn't made as I've hardly seen her or spoken to her over the last two months.


My guess is that she hasn't changed much then. Important changes should already be in progress, and even with little contact you should definitely be seeing something, at least that's what I think.

Have you guys tried MC in the past? Would you both be open to it now? I know everyone else is telling you to go NC, but it doesn't seem as if you're ready to fully commit to going down that road, without turning back.

I'm not trying to convince you to go back and get hurt, just going with your statement that you don't know what you want. I hate being indecisive, and feeling as if I have to make a quick decision.. Maybe you don't have to decide either way for now? Maybe just keep working on you, and limiting contact with her, until things get a bit more clear?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> It begins with changing your avatar to a very attractive braying jackass.


I'll get right on that! :lol:


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I know.... I'm kind of worried about switching off my emotions though, especially as that was a contributing factor to the downfall of the relationship. I shut her out.


With all due respect, that wasn't what did it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> My guess is that she hasn't changed much then. Important changes should already be in progress, and even with little contact you should definitely be seeing something, at least that's what I think.
> 
> Have you guys tried MC in the past? Would you both be open to it now? I know everyone else is telling you to go NC, but it doesn't seem as if you're ready to fully commit to going down that road, without turning back.
> 
> I'm not trying to convince you to go back and get hurt, just going with your statement that you don't know what you want. I hate being indecisive, and feeling as if I have to make a quick decision.. Maybe you don't have to decide either way for now? Maybe just keep working on you, and limiting contact with her, until things get a bit more clear?


Nope we haven't tried MC. She wasn't open to it, and I'm certain she still isn't. I did suggest it, but I think by that point it was just too late.

I'm not sure if not deciding now is a good idea, that would leave me hanging on to a hope I think.

I keep feeling like I'm ready to fully commit to that road, and then something happens that makes me question my decision.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Nope we haven't tried MC. She wasn't open to it, and I'm certain she still isn't. I did suggest it, but I think by that point it was just too late.
> 
> I'm not sure if not deciding now is a good idea, that would leave me hanging on to a hope I think.
> 
> I keep feeling like I'm ready to fully commit to that road, and then something happens that makes me question my decision.


If we'd ask her, she'd blame you.

I'd like to tell you that makes her unique.

If that was "unique", this board would not exist.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> With all due respect, that wasn't what did it.


No I get that - but it certainly contributed.

I was scared to let her in fully for fear of being hurt again after we split up once in the past, and then I got hurt again anyway.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> If we'd ask her, she'd blame you.
> 
> I'd like to tell you that makes her unique.
> 
> If that was "unique", this board would not exist.


Of course, she blames me for everything.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Nope we haven't tried MC. She wasn't open to it, and I'm certain she still isn't. I did suggest it, but I think by that point it was just too late.
> 
> I'm not sure if not deciding now is a good idea, that would leave me hanging on to a hope I think.
> 
> I keep feeling like I'm ready to fully commit to that road, and then something happens that makes me question my decision.


Is that "something" enough to make you fully change your mind, or just question your decision?

I think you've got this one figured out, but I can tell it's hard. Is it time to pick up and keep moving through that tunnel? 

Don't you have a possible date this weekend? :smthumbup: Maybe it's just what you need!


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> No I get that - but it certainly contributed.
> 
> I was scared to let her in fully for fear of being hurt again after we split up once in the past, and then I got hurt again anyway.


I see you two as running the hamster wheel of the triangle.

You saw her vulnerability and stepped in to be her friend, support her, and make her life easier.

What's missing in this is "making someone's life easier so they will love you" is codependence.

Your acts of service to her were more about "giving to get" than it was about actually loving her.

People have a spidey sense about this stuff. When it's really about them, they know.

So, you pour all this out hoping for a return.

When it doesn't happen, you move to the victim chair - resenting and feeling bitterness.

Your shut-down was you moving to persecutor.

A professional disordered victim like her will have none of that.

So, when you say "your shut down" caused this... it's technically correct, but it's a mile wide of the truth.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Of course, she blames me for everything.


How do you think I know that?

I've never been to the UK


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Is that "something" enough to make you fully change your mind, or just question your decision?
> 
> I think you've got this one figured out, but I can tell it's hard. Is it time to pick up and keep moving through that tunnel?
> 
> Don't you have a possible date this weekend? :smthumbup: Maybe it's just what you need!


I don't know to be honest. It definitely makes me question my decision, but I think for my mind to be fully changed I'd need to see something more concrete and direct than her statement earlier. She has made several "hints" like this before as to her feelings towards me. None of them have been enough to make me really want to make a go of working things out, yet.

I'm still sat firmly in the middle of the tunnel, trying to decide whether I should carry on in one direction or the other.

I had my "date" last night - I posted about it in an earlier post today. It was a strange experience.



> I see you two as running the hamster wheel of the triangle.
> 
> You saw her vulnerability and stepped in to be her friend, support her, and make her life easier.
> 
> What's missing in this is "making someone's life easier so they will love you" is codependence.
> 
> Your acts of service to her were more about "giving to get" than it was about actually loving her.
> 
> People have a spidey sense about this stuff. When it's really about them, they know.
> 
> So, you pour all this out hoping for a return.
> 
> When it doesn't happen, you move to the victim chair - resenting and feeling bitterness.
> 
> Your shut-down was you moving to persecutor.
> 
> A professional disordered victim like her will have none of that.
> 
> So, when you say "your shut down" caused this... it's technically correct, but it's a mile wide of the truth.


The thing is, I did genuinely want nothing from her when we began talking, but as time goes on, and statements like earlier are made, it gets my mind whirring.

I realise that my shut down causing this is a mile wide of the truth, I have other issues that caused this too.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> How do you think I know that?
> 
> I've never been to the UK


You aren't missing much 

You know that because it's the same in 99% of break ups. You know that because you've seen it a thousand times before. You know that because you've more than likely been through it yourself.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> You aren't missing much
> 
> You know that because it's the same in 99% of break ups. You know that because you've seen it a thousand times before. You know that because you've more than likely been through it yourself.


My friend.

I've lived it.

I've come out the other side.

Human beings are wired for survival. And, our emotions (which largely begin the subconscious) "inform" us of situations where we're in danger and prompt us to take evasive action.

Our buddy Ceegee (with the cool avatar) is observing that his X tells people she had to leave the marriage "to survive"

While that seems ridiculous, this is the disordered thinking of those that are emotionally broken. Abuse victims... victims of trauma... people that were injured very early in life and had to build primitive defense mechanisms before they were ready.

They carry these defenses into adulthood.

We encounter them. Those of us that learned we needed to please and earn love in our families of origin. Our spidey sense latches onto their vulnerability and we conclude THIS is the one I can SAVE! She'll love me for it and we'll live happily ever after.

Nothing could be further from the truth.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't know to be honest. It definitely makes me question my decision, but I think for my mind to be fully changed I'd need to see something more concrete and direct than her statement earlier. She has made several "hints" like this before as to her feelings towards me. None of them have been enough to make me really want to make a go of working things out, yet.
> 
> I'm still sat firmly in the middle of the tunnel, trying to decide whether I should carry on in one direction or the other.
> 
> I had my "date" last night - I posted about it in an earlier post today. It was a strange experience.


I think this thread is moving too fast for me, I must go look for that post!

I think the middle of the tunnel is the best place, safe and warm. You just keep doing what you're doing for YOU, you're on the right track. Who knows, maybe she'll amaze you and do something direct. But if not, you're doing great, and you'll be ok  Even though you may be confused, your brain is winning here from what I can see.


----------



## Conrad

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I think this thread is moving too fast for me, I must go look for that post!
> 
> I think the middle of the tunnel is the best place, safe and warm. You just keep doing what you're doing for YOU, you're on the right track. Who knows, maybe she'll amaze you and do something direct. But if not, you're doing great, and you'll be ok  Even though you may be confused, your brain is winning here from what I can see.


It doesn't feel safe there for him.

His internal disquiet bleeds off the page.

He wants to DO something.

But, first he needs to Learn to Be Still.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> My friend.
> 
> I've lived it.
> 
> I've come out the other side.
> 
> Human beings are wired for survival. And, our emotions (which largely begin the subconscious) "inform" us of situations where we're in danger and prompt us to take evasive action.
> 
> Our buddy Ceegee (with the cool avatar) is observing that his X tells people she had to leave the marriage "to survive"
> 
> While that seems ridiculous, this is the disordered thinking of those that are emotionally broken. Abuse victims... victims of trauma... people that were injured very early in life and had to build primitive defense mechanisms before they were ready.
> 
> They carry these defenses into adulthood.
> 
> We encounter them. Those of us that learned we needed to please and earn love in our families of origin. Our spidey sense latches onto their vulnerability and we conclude THIS is the one I can SAVE! She'll love me for it and we'll live happily ever after.
> 
> Nothing could be further from the truth.


I always had to earn love in my family of origin. It's sad and it shouldn't be that way. 

She was going through a rough time when I met her. I tried to be a good friend and tried to support her, but subconsciously I think I had ulterior motives. When everything happened at the start it all happened very fast too.



> I think this thread is moving too fast for me, I must go look for that post!
> 
> I think the middle of the tunnel is the best place, safe and warm. You just keep doing what you're doing for YOU, you're on the right track. Who knows, maybe she'll amaze you and do something direct. But if not, you're doing great, and you'll be ok Even though you may be confused, your brain is winning here from what I can see.


The thread is snowballing really, I never thought it would get so many posts/views!

In the middle is the best place for me right now, until I decide on a direction. I don't want to be stuck there forever though! I need to spend some time reflecting on that tonight. I think I'm going to shut myself away with my thoughts, and try and get myself together.

I know I have the strength to carry out whatever course of action I decide on, I know it's there somewhere. I just need to find it again.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, I went, figured I could always use more friends, even if I don't want anything more.
> 
> It started out quite friendly and nice, but she became increasingly flirty and it got a little bit weird. She kept pulling my sleeves up to look at my tattoos without asking, then she kept poking me and tickling me, then she laid across my lap, and then when she sat up she cuddled up to me and put her head on my shoulder. She kept making innuendos and saying how she needs sex. I felt pretty uncomfortable to be honest, but I think I handled it well.
> 
> It's pretty obvious to me what she wanted, but firstly, I'm just not there yet, and secondly, I like a challenge.


Ah ha, I found it. Wow, sounds like an awkward situation! I'm sure you did handle it well, lol she sounds a bit..um. forward?

Great job going out and doing it though, it's gotta feel good to be wanted 



WantWifeBack said:


> Hmm... good question.
> 
> Tape a couple of oranges down there?


I missed this too! Haha I dunno if I could fit oranges in my pants..Maybe something a bit smaller?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> It doesn't feel safe there for him.
> 
> His internal disquiet bleeds off the page.
> 
> He wants to DO something.
> 
> But, first he needs to Learn to Be Still.


I don't take big decisions lightly.

I do want to DO something, you're right. I just need to figure out what. I don't want to end up doing the wrong thing.


----------



## Ceegee

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I think this thread is moving too fast for me, I must go look for that post!
> 
> I think the middle of the tunnel is the best place, safe and warm. You just keep doing what you're doing for YOU, you're on the right track. Who knows, *maybe she'll amaze you and do something direct*. But if not, you're doing great, and you'll be ok  Even though you may be confused, your brain is winning here from what I can see.


CB1,

Where WWB is, right now, do you think this would be a good thing or bad thing?

Is there any one thing she could "do" that should inspire WWB to pick up with STBX and carry on?

How can WWB be on the right track if he has yet to choose one?


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Conrad said:


> It doesn't feel safe there for him.
> 
> His internal disquiet bleeds off the page.
> 
> He wants to DO something.
> 
> But, first he needs to Learn to Be Still.


Being still is the hardest part, but I absolutely love the wisdom here.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Ah ha, I found it. Wow, sounds like an awkward situation! I'm sure you did handle it well, lol she sounds a bit..um. forward?
> 
> Great job going out and doing it though, it's gotta feel good to be wanted
> 
> 
> 
> I missed this too! Haha I dunno if I could fit oranges in my pants..Maybe something a bit smaller?


Yeah I guess it did feel good, but yeah she was very very forward. No challenge, no interest. 

Hmm, Kiwis?


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't take big decisions lightly.
> 
> I do want to DO something, you're right. I just need to figure out what. I don't want to end up doing the wrong thing.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ceegee said:


> CB1,
> 
> Where WWB is, right now, do you think this would be a good thing or bad thing?


I'm not sure either. Earlier when she said about finding it difficult to distinguish between friends and more, it took a lot of strength to reply and say "We both know we can't be more".



> Is there any one thing she could "do" that should inspire WWB to pick up with STBX and carry on?


There isn't any "one" thing. There are a combination of several things, and they won't happen quickly, and are unlikely to happen at all.



> How can WWB be on the right track if he has yet to choose one?


I'm at a crossroads again now. I should never have made camp here, I should have kept on.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Ceegee said:


> CB1,
> 
> Where WWB is, right now, do you think this would be a good thing or bad thing?
> 
> Is there any one thing she could "do" that should inspire WWB to pick up with STBX and carry on?
> 
> How can WWB be on the right track if he has yet to choose one?


Sometimes being on the right track doesn't have to involve making a choice.. At least, not in my eyes. Sometimes I find it better to take a wait and see approach, especially if WWB is continuing to better himself in the meantime.

It may not be the way everyone handles things, but personally, I'd rather not jump into a decision either way, if I'm not ready to. So remaining undecided for a period of time, while you weigh your options, can still be considered on the right track.. Just my opinion though.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I guess it did feel good, but yeah she was very very forward. No challenge, no interest.
> 
> Hmm, Kiwis?


It's never any fun without a chase! Lol

Kiwis.. :rofl: Those might work


----------



## Conrad

Conrad said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html


WWB,

Conquer the desire to "do" something.

That's codependent fixing behavior.

And, guess what?

"Fixing" by trying to force it with your wife isn't any worse or better than "fixing" it by forcing yourself on someone new.

There is no cosmic scorecard about "who came out better" or worse.

Your life is about you.

You should not compete with anyone else.

Just be your best.

But, you first have to discover who you are.

Learning to be still is the first step.

There are all sorts of competing voices in your head.

Only one is your authentic self.

After years of ignoring you.... it's time to get acquainted.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Conquer the desire to "do" something.
> 
> That's codependent fixing behavior.
> 
> And, guess what?
> 
> "Fixing" by trying to force it with your wife isn't any worse or better than "fixing" it by forcing yourself on someone new.
> 
> There is no cosmic scorecard about "who came out better" or worse.
> 
> Your life is about you.
> 
> You should not compete with anyone else.
> 
> Just be your best.
> 
> But, you first have to discover who you are.
> 
> Learning to be still is the first step.
> 
> There are all sorts of competing voices in your head.
> 
> Only one is your authentic self.
> 
> After years of ignoring you.... it's time to get acquainted.


How do I learn to be still?

You're right about all sorts of competing voices - I'm constantly conflicted.

I want to find my authentic self, I have memories of him, I liked that guy.


----------



## jeffthechef

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/68411-submitting-truth.html


That link is pure gold. I read it every couple days.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> How do I learn to be still?
> 
> You're right about all sorts of competing voices - I'm constantly conflicted.
> 
> I want to find my authentic self, I have memories of him, I liked that guy.


You will like him again.

I guarantee it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You will like him again.
> 
> I guarantee it.


I know I will. He's a pretty awesome guy .

Now, where to find him? I feel kind of like I am finding him, but days like today, he's nowhere to be seen again.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not going to give it to her (the quick fix, I mean )
> 
> But in all seriousness, I don't know what changes she has or hasn't made as I've hardly seen her or spoken to her over the last two months.


A. Serious changes don't happen that fast.

B. If she made serious changes, she would come to you and tell you she understands what she's done to hurt you, claim her part and talk about what she will do to make things right.

People don't make that kind of change often and even if they do, the damage can be so great that pride keeps them from returning to repair the damage by taking responsibility. This is why you need to work on you. If she works on her and can reengage with you, you'll know because she'll tell you. Most likely she won't do the work, but she may go for the quick fix to temporarily end the disquieting pain she feels inside. That will just hurt you (and her) if you accept the quick fix.

NC, work on you. Who cares what she's thinking or what work she's done. Those are not your issue. She took you caring about those with her when she left.


----------



## KnottedStomach

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Sometimes being on the right track doesn't have to involve making a choice.. At least, not in my eyes. Sometimes I find it better to take a wait and see approach, especially if WWB is continuing to better himself in the meantime.
> 
> It may not be the way everyone handles things, but personally, I'd rather not jump into a decision either way, if I'm not ready to. So remaining undecided for a period of time, while you weigh your options, can still be considered on the right track.. Just my opinion though.


I agree with this.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I know I will. He's a pretty awesome guy .
> 
> Now, where to find him? I feel kind of like I am finding him, *but days like today, he's nowhere to be seen again.*


Because she's blocking your view.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> A. Serious changes don't happen that fast.
> 
> B. If she made serious changes, she would come to you and tell you she understands what she's done to hurt you, claim her part and talk about what she will do to make things right.
> 
> People don't make that kind of change often and even if they do, the damage can be so great that pride keeps them from returning to repair the damage by taking responsibility. This is why you need to work on you. If she works on her and can reengage with you, you'll know because she'll tell you. Most likely she won't do the work, but she may go for the quick fix to temporarily end the disquieting pain she feels inside. That will just hurt you (and her) if you accept the quick fix.
> 
> NC, work on you. Who cares what she's thinking or what work she's done. Those are not your issue. She took you caring about those with her when she left.


You're absolutely right. I'm almost certain that she's not going to make the changes, and I'm even more certain if she does her pride will stop her from ever approaching me as a result.

By quick fix, do you mean R too soon? or just contact?



> Because she's blocking your view.


She's not just blocking my view, she's blinding me.


----------



## angstire

I mean contact, and maybe a false R, that she thinks will make her an ok person and maybe work out for herself and hide the pain she's feeling inside.

The quick fix of married couples trying to get back together so they don't face the shame of having failed. They don't fix their individual issues, so they can work on their couple issues to be a successful couple. And they fail. A year later or 6 months later or 5 years later. They buy a new house or have a baby or go on vacation, but the fundamental issues are there; just glossed over. And since the core issues are individual, the couple issues cannot be resolved. 

Accept what I said about her and change and the quick fix. Try to have this be the last thing you focus on about her for a long while. Realize she won't change and you can't make her change and you can't DO anything for her.

And then work on you. There will be time to come back and think about her.

Once I made my list about what I didn't want from my stbxw and what I didn't want from me anymore, it was much easier to detach. Reach the place where you realize basic truths, like you can't fix or control, or that she won't change and move on to focus on you.

There are plenty of people on TAM, and in RL, who are still focused on their exes and they are not making progress. They are stuck. Don't be that guy.


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> What about those of us without balls? Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


www.google.com LMAO!


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



FC Dynamite said:


> Oh lord, I literally lol when I read this. Deep down, I'm hoping the majority of us can see our balls without bending over though.


Lol. True. Plus when you get older I heard they drop down a little. He he.


----------



## MSC71

Dont read into anything she says. Trust me. Shes doing this for her own guilt. Me and others here who are telling you this are speaking from experience. I would do a lot different if I could go back. I would of gone dark from day 1 and got divorce done ASAP.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I mean contact, and maybe a false R, that she thinks will make her an ok person and maybe work out for herself and hide the pain she's feeling inside.
> 
> The quick fix of married couples trying to get back together so they don't face the shame of having failed. They don't fix their individual issues, so they can work on their couple issues to be a successful couple. And they fail. A year later or 6 months later or 5 years later. They buy a new house or have a baby or go on vacation, but the fundamental issues are there; just glossed over. And since the core issues are individual, the couple issues cannot be resolved.
> 
> Accept what I said about her and change and the quick fix. Try to have this be the last thing you focus on about her for a long while. Realize she won't change and you can't make her change and you can't DO anything for her.
> 
> And then work on you. There will be time to come back and think about her.
> 
> Once I made my list about what I didn't want from my stbxw and what I didn't want from me anymore, it was much easier to detach. Reach the place where you realize basic truths, like you can't fix or control, or that she won't change and move on to focus on you.
> 
> There are plenty of people on TAM, and in RL, who are still focused on their exes and they are not making progress. They are stuck. Don't be that guy.


I'm not going to be that guy, that's my worst nightmare. I accept that I can't change her or help her change, she needs to do it alone. I wouldn't go for an R if she reached out for one right now, because I know that the individual issues need to be addressed.



> Dont read into anything she says. Trust me. Shes doing this for her own guilt. Me and others here who are telling you this are speaking from experience. I would do a lot different if I could go back. I would of gone dark from day 1 and got divorce done ASAP.


I'm not reading in to anything she says, that would be foolish. 

She was texting me quite a lot tonight, and she started getting flirtatious. I've also just noticed that she's unblocked me on facebook cause I can now see her on mutual friend's pages.

I'm wondering if I should now block her, or if I should just leave it. I'm not a friend of hers so I can't see any posts, and won't be greeted with her updates every time I log on.

I've been doing a lot of thinking tonight, and I think I know what I'd like, but I'm not sure if it's a wise choice. I want to just continue to be a friend, without reading too much in to anything, continue to work on myself and let whatever is going to happen happen.

I've made a conscious decision to make myself a priority though, so if things get tough or go sour again, I'll remove myself from the situation. I've also decided that I'm not going to initiate contact.

I say "decided" - what I mean is I've decided that I'd like this, now I just need to decide if it's wise to do so in terms of my own wellbeing.


----------



## MSC71

I would block her. No sense in putting yourself through misery if you see something you don't want to see.


----------



## MSC71

Been there too!


----------



## oviid

angstire said:


> Once I made my list about what I didn't want from my stbxw and what I didn't want from me anymore, it was much easier to detach. Reach the place where you realize basic truths, like you can't fix or control, or that she won't change and move on to focus on you.


I like that idea. I just made that list too and will look at it often. I think realizing the things I want and understanding the fact the she can't provide those things helps me focus on where I need to be.


----------



## Ceegee

Best of luck to you WWB.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I just don't know what to do.... so so confused now.

On one hand, I've got the side of me that wants to try and salvage our marriage, not right away, but in time.

On the other hand, I wonder if she wants to feel wanted, and is just using me for that, and that part of me wants to move on.

Both options make me happy, but both options also make me sad at the same time.

I just don't know..... It's been driving me crazy.


----------



## RandomDude

You have no reason not to harden your heart at this point and every reason to do so.

So...


> On one hand, I've got the side of me that wants to try and salvage our marriage, not right away, but in time.


Kill it, remind yourself of all the negatives and the fact that she's getting drilled by someone else as we speak. Sorry to be harsh but this is the stuff you need to remind yourself of.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> You have no reason not to harden your heart at this point and every reason to do so.
> 
> So...
> 
> Kill it, remind yourself of all the negatives and the fact that she's getting drilled by someone else as we speak. Sorry to be harsh but this is the stuff you need to remind yourself of.


Harsh is fine - I can be harsh too.

I don't know if she does have someone else. Last night she told me that she was "playing with her toys". If she had OM, she wouldn't need them, unless he's an under performer.

I haven't initiated contact today, and find myself wondering if she will, but not placing any hope on the fact.

Yes, there are a lot of negatives, but when things were good, they were insanely good. I know in my heart that we can get that back, I just need to figure out if it's worth it, and all of the potential pain that could come with it.

I don't want to regret not seeing where this might go - but if I don't do it, I'll regret it, if I end up hurt again, I'll regret it. There's only one positive outcome in this whole thing, and I need to evaluate how likely that is.


----------



## RandomDude

Now why would she randomly tell you "I'm playing with my toys"


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Now why would she randomly tell you "I'm playing with my toys"


I'm not sure exactly, to get a reaction? To see if I still want her?


----------



## RandomDude

She's keeping you hanging mate don't you see?

Cut loose, seriously


----------



## GotLifeBack

But then I start thinking along the lines of:

"If she was truly done with me and didn't want to be with me one bit, why would she keep me hanging?"

Maybe she's entertaining the possibility of a future together? Or maybe she's boosting her own ego? I just don't know either way, but I don't want to end up regretting. The only way I can see the answer is by seeing where this path leads. But, I'm also terrified of what may be at the end of it, either way actually.

Neither path will be easy, neither outcome will be easy.


----------



## RandomDude

Judging by her lack of change and behavior up to this point it seems more likely that she's using you for validation/promoting her ego/keeping you hanging.

Entertaining the possibility of a future together is wishful thinking mate and is not consistent with all other evidence. I don't think she's recognised your 180, she still believes she can get the hook on you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Judging by her lack of change and behavior up to this point it seems more likely that she's using you for validation/promoting her ego/keeping you hanging.
> 
> Entertaining the possibility of a future together is wishful thinking mate and is not consistent with all other evidence. I don't think she's recognised your 180, she still believes she can get the hook on you.


We were so intensely in love once, and I know I can get that back. I also know that it doesn't have to be her that I get that back with. She has changed in the sense that she seems a lot more like the woman I first met than the woman she became in the last 6 months of our relationship. I like that woman a lot, she's magnetic.

Your right about it not being consistent with all other evidence, and her believing she can get the hook on me. I fear that she's already staring to reel me in again. 

I haven't contacted her today. I think that's for the best really. 

Guess I'll just play it by ear, see what happens.


----------



## RandomDude

Well, your decision. I still reckon you should cut loose but meh.

But at least the next time she tells you something like that just call her out and tell her you don't need to hear that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Well, your decision. I still reckon you should cut loose but meh.
> 
> But at least the next time she tells you something like that just call her out and tell her you don't need to hear that.


I've decided I'm going NC. If she wants to reconcile, she'll reach out.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Think I've made a pretty big realisation this morning.

At the end of our relationship, I loved her, but I don't think I was in love with her, not like I used to be. She became a different person. I've been in love with the memory of her, and the hope of getting back those feelings that we had for longer than I had realised.

I want that feeling back, I really do, but it could be with her, or it could be with someone else. Either way, I'll have that again some day.

I'm just hanging on to hope because I know that I've had that with her, and that it could be brought back.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I'm not sure if you've read these or not...

Obsessing Over an Abusive Ex: Thoughts on Being Stuck | Shrink4Men

More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath | Shrink4Men

I especially like his excerpt:

Do I really miss her or the drama?

What void is her drama filling in my life?

Do I really miss her or does she provide an endless distraction from dealing with my own issues, which is probably what caused me to become involved with her in the first place?

Do I really miss and “love” him or am I re-creating a troubled and painful relationship from my childhood (e.g., with a parent) and insisting on a different outcome with an equally damaged person who is just as incapable of being in a healthy, reciprocal relationship as the individual(s) who caused me the original damage?

Do I really miss her or the fantasy woman she portrayed herself to be when we first met?

Do I have unrealistic fantasies about meeting a perfect woman or man who will meet all of my needs all the time, which is why I fell for her or him during the love bombing stage?

Is this because I didn’t receive enough unconditional love and positive regard from my parents when I was a child?

Is this what attracted me to her and, if so, how can I work through these issues and love myself enough so I am no longer vulnerable to emotional predators?


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> I'm not sure if you've read these or not...
> 
> Obsessing Over an Abusive Ex: Thoughts on Being Stuck | Shrink4Men
> 
> More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath | Shrink4Men


I haven't read these, I'll read them when I get home tonight.


----------



## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> I've decided I'm going NC. If she wants to reconcile, she'll reach out.


BLING!










:smthumbup:


----------



## oviid

I think when you reach that point where you realize it's the idea of her and not necessarily her that you love, that's a turning point. Think, really think, do you love her or do you love the idea of her and what things used to be? That idea you are thinking about, like you said, doesn't have to be with her but it's much easier to imagine it because it might seem just an arm's length away to recapture that. Man I know life would be so much easier for me right now too if that would happen, but is it the right thing and should I dwell on it?

Remember too when we talked about holding onto hope when you know it's only hurtful in the end? I think now is the time to pull your boot straps up and soldier on with self confidence and NOT running back to her just because you think she's going to change or she throws you a bone. I'm not saying that can't happen eventually but now is not the time in my opinion. When she's able to show a real change, displayed by consistency, then you might want to entertain thoughts of getting back together if you believe that's the right thing to do. 

You know I'm no expert, what the hell do I know really? It's just my opinion.

I wish you the best of luck in this WWB.


----------



## MSC71

Fyi. Women dont use toys because the other man is a under performer. Do you masturbate? Does that mean your wife is no good in bed? 

I think its time for a nut check. No contact means no contact. Even if she sends the first text or phone call. You dont have kids so there us zero reason to talk.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> I think when you reach that point where you realize it's the idea of her and not necessarily her that you love, that's a turning point. Think, really think, do you love her or do you love the idea of her and what things used to be? That idea you are thinking about, like you said, doesn't have to be with her but it's much easier to imagine it because it might seem just an arm's length away to recapture that. Man I know life would be so much easier for me right now too if that would happen, but is it the right thing and should I dwell on it?
> 
> Remember too when we talked about holding onto hope when you know it's only hurtful in the end? I think now is the time to pull your boot straps up and soldier on with self confidence and NOT running back to her just because you think she's going to change or she throws you a bone. I'm not saying that can't happen eventually but now is not the time in my opinion. When she's able to show a real change, displayed by consistency, then you might want to entertain thoughts of getting back together if you believe that's the right thing to do.
> 
> You know I'm no expert, what the hell do I know really? It's just my opinion.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck in this WWB.


You pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I love what things used to be, the way she used to make me feel. That all got lost somewhere way before she left, not just for her, but for me too. I wasn't happy. 

For her to display these changes, first of all she'll need to reach out for an R. Then we'll see how I feel. Given the almost zero likelihood of this happening, I don't have any other choice. I'm 100% certain that I can be happy in myself, and eventually find someone who makes me feel that way again. It's a 100% chance or a 0.000001% chance. Why am I hanging on to the slim odds?



> Fyi. Women dont use toys because the other man is a under performer. Do you masturbate? Does that mean your wife is no good in bed?
> 
> I think its time for a nut check. No contact means no contact. Even if she sends the first text or phone call. You dont have kids so there us zero reason to talk.


Even so, I still don't know if she has OM or not. Her behaviour patterns would certainly suggest this to be the case though.

No contact does mean no contact. I guess over the last few days she's had a "taste" of what she's missing. 

The only reason I would talk to her, would be to discuss working towards an R.


----------



## RandomDude

Now we're getting somewhere!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Now we're getting somewhere!


Looks like I've found my strength again. I had a couple of days of weakness and longing. That part of me is still floating around, but my strength is what's driving me now.

Come on WWB, you've got this, it's time to move forwards instead of backwards.


----------



## RandomDude

Keep it up, and remind yourself of your decision. You have a burst of strength now to pull yourself out but the race isn't over, now it's all about endurance. But you know you have it in you, so keep it up mate!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Keep it up, and remind yourself of your decision. You have a burst of strength now to pull yourself out but the race isn't over, now it's all about endurance. But you know you have it in you, so keep it up mate!


The race is only just beginning. I'm sure there'll be weak days again, but I need to endure them, like you say.

The days in which she initiates contact will be the hardest I think, so far I haven't heard anything today though. Yesterday I would have been sad about that, today I see it as a blessing.

I've gotta do what I need to do for my own peace of mind, talking to her has just caused me to become conflicted.


----------



## RandomDude

Do what STBX did before I dropped a bomb on her.

As before the bomb she had no reason to keep chasing after me, so she told me her wishes to limit our contact and that she was not ready to be friends again yet. In other words, she knew I was holding her back and she needed space - hence she enforced it.

In the same regard, you know you need your space, she's trying to keep you holding on, so be cool - and let her know politely "honey please fk off"


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Do what STBX did before I dropped a bomb on her.
> 
> As before the bomb she had no reason to keep chasing after me, so she told me her wishes to limit our contact and that she was not ready to be friends again yet. In other words, she knew I was holding her back and she needed space - hence she enforced it.
> 
> In the same regard, you know you need your space, she's trying to keep you holding on, so be cool - and let her know politely "honey please fk off"


I don't even know if I'm going to let her know we can't be friends, or let my silence do all the talking.

The polite thing to do would be to tell her, but she'd see that as me being weak and needy. The other way I could do it would be to say something like:

"I was thinking about what you said yesterday about it being hard to differentiate between friends and more, if you're finding it difficult, I think it's best we stop being friends."

I'll figure out what I'm going to do about that, but until then, I won't do anything.


----------



## RandomDude

> The polite thing to do would be to tell her, but she'd see that as me being weak and needy.


Well, when STBX told me politely to F off I sure didn't see her as weak or needy.



> The other way I could do it would be to say something like:
> 
> "I was thinking about what you said yesterday about it being hard to differentiate between friends and more, if you're finding it difficult, I think it's best we stop being friends."


Sounds good, use it.



> I'll figure out what I'm going to do about that, but until then, I won't do anything.


Well I guess you can always just go dark and if she initiates contact then tell her what you mentioned above. STBX and I have to maintain civility due to co-parenting, but you however don't have that drawback so you can get away with simple silence.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Well, when STBX told me politely to F off I sure didn't see her as weak or needy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good, use it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess you can always just go dark and if she initiates contact then tell her what you mentioned above. STBX and I have to maintain civility due to co-parenting, but you however don't have that drawback so you can get away with simple silence.


Well, she has sent me a text, and an email. I haven't responded to either. They didn't say anything other than a warning if an incoming storm.

I've gone dark on her and am remaining so, if she sends me a text looking for a reply, I'll respond as I have put above.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Come on WWB, you've got this, it's time to move forwards instead of backwards.


Exactly! Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, she has sent me a text, and an email. I haven't responded to either. They didn't say anything other than a warning if an incoming storm.
> 
> I've gone dark on her and am remaining so, if she sends me a text looking for a reply, I'll respond as I have put above.


You're getting the hang of it


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Exactly! Keep telling yourself that.


I'm trying to 



> You're getting the hang of it


Her concern was that I'm going out this weekend when the storm is supposed to hit. I'm not sure if she recalls I'm going out from me telling her, or if she's been checking up on my facebook, as I posted something about going out this weekend earlier.

Either doesn't really matter does it?

I am expecting a further message from her soon, either today or by the end of the week!


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Either doesn't really matter does it?


Nope, it doesn't really matter how she find out what you are up to.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Nope, it doesn't really matter how she find out what you are up to.


Nope it doesn't.

I think she was trying to use that message as an ice-breaker to initiate conversation with me today.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Nope it doesn't.
> 
> I think she was trying to use that message as an ice-breaker to initiate conversation with me today.


Hopefully it doesn't work.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Hopefully it doesn't work.


It won't. 

I only think this because when she followed up with an email, she sent it to my work address rather than my personal address.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> I am expecting a further message from her soon, either today or by the end of the week!


As expected, I just received a further message from her.

I haven't read the entire thing, but the preview says "Take it I've done something wrong again...."

Not sure what it says beyond that.

Edit: That's all it says.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm just going to explain to her tonight.


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Separated from Wife - Really want her back.*



WantWifeBack said:


> I'm just going to explain to her tonight.


No contact means not explaining things. !!


----------



## GotLifeBack

If I were angry at her for something, I wouldn't explain, but I'm not angry.

I'm scared that by being friends I'll fall head over heels for her again and just end up being hurt.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> If I were angry at her for something, I wouldn't explain, but I'm not angry.
> 
> I'm scared that by being friends I'll fall head over heels for her again and just end up being hurt.


Seems like u r going back and forth again. You don't owe her any explanations. If you don't want to talk to her just don't talk to her. She is the one who left and decided not to work on things. If she wants to talk to you let her keep trying. Let her try harder. If u do, she is going to pull you back into her web.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Seems like u r going back and forth again. You don't owe her any explanations. If you don't want to talk to her just don't talk to her. She is the one who left and decided not to work on things. If she wants to talk to you let her keep trying. Let her try harder. If u do, she is going to pull you back into her web.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm firm in my decision, I'm not going to talk to her unless she wants to work on our marriage.

But I would like to explain my decision to end our friendship to her. I know I don't owe her that explanation, I want to do that for me.


----------



## angstire

Disagree, you're trying to control her, fix her, whatever. You don't owe her an explanation. If she can't figure out you don't want to be friends because, as your wife, she left you, that's her issue.

Explain to yourself in a letter why you don't want to be friends. Explain to TAM here why you don't want to be friends. 

You will extend your hurt by explaining to her. War game it out; what happens after you explain to her? She suddenly sees the error of her ways? She wants to bang? She acts like a child and reinforces for you that you don't want her? 

What are the possibilities if you explain it to her and how do you react to each of them?

If you don't explain, you don't have to deal with her reaction. You deal with your issues and what you want.

Explaining to her is just continuing to interact with her and feed her emotional vampirism. It will just hurt you.


----------



## alte Dame

I apologize for jumping into your thread so late. I have been reading it but not commenting.

I think since you developed such an intense relationship at such a young age, she is your lifeline & only real experience of a 'mate' in life. It's extremely hard to let go of something when it is both your first and only experience.

I think, though, that it would be best for you to just go cold turkey with her. You need to find your own life again, a life that is yours. Eventually you'll find another, better mate for yourself. You have to have faith in that. It will happen.

The pain you will feel as you withdraw will be real, but it is survivable and it passes. On the other end is a better existence for you.

Your W is stringing you along in the self-absorbed way that a very young woman does. It is unself-consciously thoughtless and awkward. She doesn't want you anymore, but she doesn't want to be the one to hurt you, so she sends conflicting signals. You should just cut this out and try to focus on your own life. It may seem at first that it doesn't exist without her, but I assure you that it does.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm just going to explain to her tonight.


:wtf:

WWB, are you for real?

Are you here to learn?

44 pages and still on page 1


----------



## MSC71

So going dark lasted a half day? If u were one of my friends I would kick you In the ass and tell you to man up


----------



## oviid

Keep in mind too the people here have been down this road too and they see things differently, sometimes clearer than we can being in the 'early' stages of this. I'm not saying you are wrong WWB but you should really step back and think about this. The text messages and reaching out to you are probably things you wish for right? I know I would like if my wife reached out to me and offered something but would that mean things can be good again? I don't know the answer to that but I do know we are here right now for a reason and reaching out a few times to me would not be reason enough for me to come running back. 

Once again I'm not saying that's what you should do but really take out the emotions and think about what is right for you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Disagree, you're trying to control her, fix her, whatever. You don't owe her an explanation. If she can't figure out you don't want to be friends because, as your wife, she left you, that's her issue.
> 
> Explain to yourself in a letter why you don't want to be friends. Explain to TAM here why you don't want to be friends.
> 
> You will extend your hurt by explaining to her. War game it out; what happens after you explain to her? She suddenly sees the error of her ways? She wants to bang? She acts like a child and reinforces for you that you don't want her?
> 
> What are the possibilities if you explain it to her and how do you react to each of them?
> 
> If you don't explain, you don't have to deal with her reaction. You deal with your issues and what you want.
> 
> Explaining to her is just continuing to interact with her and feed her emotional vampirism. It will just hurt you.


I explained to her, not to control her, or to get a reaction, but for myself, as an exercise of strength. It was extremely difficult to tell her that I can't talk to her for fear of setting myself up for a fall again, especially when things have been going very well and she was chasing me for contact today. Old WWB would have done this to get a reaction. New WWB did this for himself, to help with letting go, and genuinely meant what he said to her.

The possibilities are redundant as I had no intentions of instigating a reaction from her.

I feel a lot better, and a lot more clear headed after doing that, too.



> So going dark lasted a half day? If u were one of my friends I would kick you In the ass and tell you to man up


I have had no contact with her outside of explaining to her. Going dark begins now. I needed space earlier to figure out what I wanted and where this "friendship" could lead, and every outcome led to somewhere I didn't want to go. I figured it out, and enforced it.



> I apologize for jumping into your thread so late. I have been reading it but not commenting.
> 
> I think since you developed such an intense relationship at such a young age, she is your lifeline & only real experience of a 'mate' in life. It's extremely hard to let go of something when it is both your first and only experience.
> 
> I think, though, that it would be best for you to just go cold turkey with her. You need to find your own life again, a life that is yours. Eventually you'll find another, better mate for yourself. You have to have faith in that. It will happen.
> 
> The pain you will feel as you withdraw will be real, but it is survivable and it passes. On the other end is a better existence for you.
> 
> Your W is stringing you along in the self-absorbed way that a very young woman does. It is unself-consciously thoughtless and awkward. She doesn't want you anymore, but she doesn't want to be the one to hurt you, so she sends conflicting signals. You should just cut this out and try to focus on your own life. It may seem at first that it doesn't exist without her, but I assure you that it does.


No need to apologise, this is a free-for-all .

I have already been through the pain of withdrawal, and had begun to seriously detach from her - I didn't want to get "hooked" on her again, the pain is far far less this time, in fact, I actually feel good about it.

My life does exist without her, it did before her, and it will continue to after D-day. I've enjoyed the tastes I have had of getting my life back, and didn't want to jeapordise that.



> Keep in mind too the people here have been down this road too and they see things differently, sometimes clearer than we can being in the 'early' stages of this. I'm not saying you are wrong WWB but you should really step back and think about this. The text messages and reaching out to you are probably things you wish for right? I know I would like if my wife reached out to me and offered something but would that mean things can be good again? I don't know the answer to that but I do know we are here right now for a reason and reaching out a few times to me would not be reason enough for me to come running back.
> 
> Once again I'm not saying that's what you should do but really take out the emotions and think about what is right for you.


You're precisely right oviid - she just wasn't doing enough. It was all vague and left open to interpretation. I'm done with the head games and trying to look for the meaning in everything. Tired of it all, so tired.

Feeling pretty good right now.


----------



## Conrad

Explaining to someone is seeking approval.

Seeking approval is codependent in nature.


----------



## MSC71

Going dark begins now is what you said yesterday. You can keep convincing yourself that you contacted her for yourself. You will go dark until the next thing you need to explain to her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Explaining to someone is seeking approval.
> 
> Seeking approval is codependent in nature.


Perhaps it is, but it's done now. I can't keep playing this game of back and forth. I looked back in to my tunnel, and saw that the entrance has caved in, there's only one way I can go now.



> Going dark begins now is what you said yesterday. You can keep convincing yourself that you contacted her for yourself. You will go dark until the next thing you need to explain to her.


I don't need to explain anything to her now. 

All I told her last night was that I couldn't be her friend as I needed to protect myself.


----------



## GotLifeBack

It's not going to be easy, because I was starting to see the woman I fell for in her again. But it's what is right for me, it's what I need to do to be able to focus on myself, and sort out my pos tendencies.


----------



## RandomDude

It's an illusion mate, remind yourself what kind of person she's proven herself to be


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> It's an illusion mate, remind yourself what kind of person she's proven herself to be


You're probably right mate.

Just gotta stay strong. I'm feeling pretty good about it.

It's like giving up a drug, except she was better than any drug. I'm sure I'll find that feeling again someday, when I'm ready.

For now, it's WWB time.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> You're probably right mate.
> 
> Just gotta stay strong. I'm feeling pretty good about it.
> 
> It's like giving up a drug, except she was better than any drug. I'm sure I'll find that feeling again someday, when I'm ready.
> 
> For now, it's WWB time.


Lets hear 2 days of posts from you without any the words "she", "her", "my wife", etc.

Let's hear about WWB. What are you learning from your reading? What hobby are you rediscovering? How are your workouts coming?

Tell us about your safe place.

A safe place is a mental place you go when you find yourself obssessing about her. 

For me, it was fishing on a sunny, cool day at a pond in our back woods (when I was a young kid). I can see the bluegills and bass just below the water's surface. I can feel the cool breeze and the warmth of the sun on my face. I can smell the odor of earthworms on my fingers. I can hear the birds warbling, and an occasional frog jumping or croaking. I was perfectly happy. Without her.

Practice going to your safe place. Train your mind, WWB. It takes mental *effort *to break attachments.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Lets hear 2 days of posts from you without any the words "she", "her", "my wife", etc.
> 
> Let's hear about WWB. What are you learning from your reading? What hobby are you rediscovering? How are your workouts coming?
> 
> Tell us about your safe place.
> 
> A safe place is a mental place you go when you find yourself obssessing about her.
> 
> For me, it was fishing on a sunny, cool day at a pond in our back woods (when I was a young kid). I can see the bluegills and bass just below the water's surface. I can feel the cool breeze and the warmth of the sun on my face. I can smell the odor of earthworms on my fingers. I can hear the birds warbling, and an occasional frog jumping or croaking. I was perfectly happy. Without her.
> 
> Practice going to your safe place. Train your mind, WWB. It takes mental *effort *to break attachments.


I'll take that challenge, two days of not mentioning ___.

What I am learning from my reading is that I'm a Nice Guy, I'm a codependent. That I focus on others instead of myself by habit, not by nature. I always thought of myself as "good natured" but I'm just a doormat. I'm learning that I have little confidence and little self-respect, and that's why I allow myself to be treated the way I have been, and that's why I still feel what I do.

I've been rediscovering playing my guitar, it was always something I loved, but didn't have the self-confidence to play in front of anyone, despite the fact that on the rare occasion I have had the courage to play in front of people, they have always told me that I'm very talented, asked me to teach them etc etc. I absolutely love playing my guitar.

The workouts are going well, although I have had an increasing number of rest days. This will stop now as I have re-found my motivation, and my workouts will resume every other day as before. I'm also really looking forward to joining the gym when I get paid next week, especially as I'll be going with two close friends, and it should be a really good laugh. I'm looking forward to improving myself physically. I have a good frame to work on, I'm 6'2", broad shouldered, not overweight or anything. I've been drawing quite a lot of female attention on the occasions that I have gone out and about, improving my physique can only increase this, and boost my confidence.

My safe place, if I'm completely honest. I don't have one. I had a miserable childhood, and miserable teenage years. I can't think of a single time that I was happy before I fell in love. The closest thing I have to my safe place is my guitar - I just plug it in, close my eyes, and can get lost in the music for hours on end. I feel content when I play. Like I don't need anything else. Could that be considered my safe place?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> My safe place, if I'm completely honest. I don't have one. I had a miserable childhood, and miserable teenage years. I can't think of a single time that I was happy before I fell in love. The closest thing I have to my safe place is my guitar - I just plug it in, close my eyes, and can get lost in the music for hours on end. I feel content when I play. Like I don't need anything else. Could that be considered my safe place?


Work with your IC on this. Surely you can identify a happy or fun moment when you were a child.

I would also recommend EMDR therapy to help with your traumatic childhood memories. Ask your IC about it.

Limit yourself here to 1-2 posts per day. Read other guys' threads to fill your time. Zillard's, ReGroup's, Lifescript (private forum), Synthetic's, staystrong's.

That will keep you plenty occupied


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Work with your IC on this. Surely you can identify a happy or fun moment when you were a child.
> 
> I would also recommend EMDR therapy to help with your traumatic childhood memories. Ask your IC about it.
> 
> Limit yourself here to 1-2 posts per day. Read other guys' threads to fill your time. Zillard's, ReGroup's, Lifescript (private forum), Synthetic's, staystrong's.
> 
> That will keep you plenty occupied


I've been thinking a lot about a happy memory and I think I've found one.

When I was 15 I went on holiday with my parents (Well, mother and step-father) and my best friend came along. They were staying in a caravan and we were staying in a tent outside it. One night we were just chilling and drinking vodka (underage, I know...) and looking up at the stars. Little known to either of us, there was a meteor shower headed our way that night, and it was awesome seeing all of them burning up on the atmosphere. I felt very at peace that night, and I believe this was the first time I experienced true happiness.

I think that's my safe place.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Cool. Expand on it. Try to remember it with all five senses. 

When you find yourself obsessing, redirect your thoughts to your safe place.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Cool. Expand on it. Try to remember it with all five senses.
> 
> When you find yourself obsessing, redirect your thoughts to your safe place.


I'll do my best. It may help if I write about all five senses here.

I could feel the grass against the back of my neck, and my hands. It was a warm night as it was the middle of Summer and it had been one of the hottest days of the year.

I could smell and hear the ocean & my friend's voice. Nothing else, no traffic, no birds, no disturbances. 

I felt a little buzzed from the vodka, and was completely relaxed.

I could see the stars, and a few thin, whispy clouds, and then the meteor shower started, it was like a constant stream of shooting stars as the rocks bounced along the atmosphere.

I can close my eyes and be in that place in seconds.


----------



## MSC71

I still have the urge to call my ex and ***** about how she never tried. Trust me. It's hard. I think its codependency for sure. Wish I were not that way. But im still bitter. It sucks when one person can **** up a family and there is nothing you can do.


----------



## GotLifeBack

MSC71 said:


> I still have the urge to call my ex and ***** about how she never tried. Trust me. It's hard. I think its codependency for sure. Wish I were not that way. But im still bitter. It sucks when one person can **** up a family and there is nothing you can do.


Yeah, it does suck, but these things happen in life.

I struggle with my codepenency. It really is something I need to address. I'll get there though, in time .

Going out tonight for Halloween, it's going to be a heavy one. Going out in the biggest University city in the country. Lots of drunk student chicks .


----------



## southernsurf

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm firm in my decision, I'm not going to talk to her unless she wants to work on our marriage.
> 
> But I would like to explain my decision to end our friendship to her. I know I don't owe her that explanation, I want to do that for me.


Why do you keep doing this - I think she already knows, no explanation needed. You are trying to ping her to keep any possible contact. Come on she isn't waiting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

enjoy the Halloween parties!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Halloween was AWESOME.

So many hot chicks, and they wen't crazy for my costume.

Just pure awesome.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, after an awesome Saturday night I'm feeling pretty damn good at the moment. I had a blast. I actually danced for the first time in my life, and spent hours dancing with women, being groped by women, being kissed by women, it was amazing. So much female attention .

Would love to do that again soon.


----------



## RandomDude

Lol good stuff 

Relive your youth and embrace your freedom! 

Wait... danced for the FIRST time in your life? =O 
Mate! It's one of the best things in life! Definitely do it again 

STBX and I used to rock the dance floor... *sigh* It was better than sex at times, the beats, the lights, the touches, the flow, its magical 

Keep going out, if you're short of events, look it up on meetup.com and join the parties! Just watch the booze lol


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Lol good stuff
> 
> Relive your youth and embrace your freedom!
> 
> Wait... danced for the FIRST time in your life? =O
> Mate! It's one of the best things in life! Definitely do it again
> 
> STBX and I used to rock the dance floor... *sigh* It was better than sex at times, the beats, the lights, the touches, the flow, its magical
> 
> Keep going out, if you're short of events, look it up on meetup.com and join the parties! Just watch the booze lol


Damn right! People are trying to drag me out clubbing again this coming weekend. Might skip it though as I've got a pretty busy weekend on! Got a 6 hour tattoo session on Saturday, then going to a firework display in the early evening. 

Yeah, first time in my life... it was great! Never did it before because of low self esteem, but this weekend, I just didn't care. Probably because I was wearing a costume and a mask for most of the night .

The women though . Awesome.


----------



## RandomDude

Heh just get drunk and you'll be fine 

Let yourself go and have fun! Just follow the beat, and if you're with a lady friend - don't be nervous - follow her hips and shoulders and go with the flow.

I'm sure you can squeeze in clubbing if you want to, besides it's a LATE evening thing


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Heh just get drunk and you'll be fine
> 
> Let yourself go and have fun! Just follow the beat, and if you're with a lady friend - don't be nervous - follow her hips and shoulders and go with the flow.
> 
> I'm sure you can squeeze in clubbing if you want to, besides it's a LATE evening thing


Beer makes everything awesome .

That's exactly what I did on Saturday. Such a great night. I danced with several lady friends. I've been told at one point I had two girls grinding on me at the same time... I didn't remember it but then I got shown photos .

I'll think about going next weekend - trying to save for a car! The weekend after that is my Birthday weekend, so maybe I'll skip next weekend and go the following one .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, after an awesome Saturday night I'm feeling pretty damn good at the moment. I had a blast. I actually danced for the first time in my life, and spent hours dancing with women, being groped by women, being kissed by women, it was amazing. So much female attention .
> 
> Would love to do that again soon.


Cool WWB! Happy for you. You deserve to have fun. What was your Halloween Costume btw?


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Cool WWB! Happy for you. You deserve to have fun. What was your Halloween Costume btw?


I went dressed as a scary jester . The women loved it .

It was really good fun, I haven't let my hair down like that in a very long while. Years in fact.

Been in such a good mood since, will definitely have to go out and do it again soon, but without the costume .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I went dressed as a scary jester . The women loved it .
> 
> It was really good fun, I haven't let my hair down like that in a very long while. Years in fact.
> 
> Been in such a good mood since, will definitely have to go out and do it again soon, but without the costume .


As someone said above, I would try meetup, just to see what events are out there in your area.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Damn right! People are trying to drag me out clubbing again this coming weekend. Might skip it though as I've got a pretty busy weekend on! Got a 6 hour tattoo session on Saturday, then going to a firework display in the early evening.
> 
> Yeah, first time in my life... it was great! Never did it before because of low self esteem, but this weekend, I just didn't care. Probably because I was wearing a costume and a mask for most of the night .
> 
> The women though . Awesome.


I'm really glad to hear you had a great weekend man! I guess that makes two of us then, because I did too! I met this woman I had been talking online with the past week and we finally met up Friday. We instantly clicked with each other. 

She also came over to my place Saturday night, and she is coming over tonight now too! She totally digs me. We ended up making out on Saturday, so that was weird. I haven't kissed another woman in nearly a decade! Felt good though! 

I could probably end up sleeping with her if I wanted, but I'm not going to. Not _quite_ ready for that yet. Plus, in my opinion you should wait a couple of weeks while dating to do that. Get out there and live it up man! We have nobody to answer to but ourselves now. We're free!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> I'm really glad to hear you had a great weekend man! I guess that makes two of us then, because I did too! I met this woman I had been talking online with the past week and we finally met up Friday. We instantly clicked with each other. She also came over to my place Saturday night, and she is coming over tonight now too! She totally digs me. We ended up making out on Saturday, so that was weird. I haven't kissed another woman in nearly a decade! Felt good though! I could probably end up sleeping with her if I wanted, but I'm not going to. Not quite _ready_ for that. Plus, in my opinion you should wait a couple of weeks while dating to do that. Get out there and live it up man! We have nobody to answer to but ourselves now. We're free!


It was awesome, I couldn't believe just how many hot girls there are out there. Guess now I've got my blinders off I realise that I am attracted to other women. It's a pretty big realisation! A couple of girls wanted to see what I looked like under my mask at two separate points in the night, so I took it off and both times they kissed me. Was nice to feel attractive and like I wasn't just getting the attention for my awesome costume!

Good news about the woman man! Play it cool, and don't rush in to anything . I'm certainly not - though I do regret not asking those girls for their numbers! Live and learn. Next time I go out I'm going to try get at least one phone number.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Feeling pretty low today, although I was expecting it to happen again at some point. All part of the roller coaster I guess. Although since Friday I've been feeling pretty good, and this is by far the longest I've gone yet without a low-point.

Just got to keep reminding myself of how much fun I had at the weekend and how I wouldn't have been able to do that before without suffering some serious wrath. Keep looking at the upsides WWB, there are many.

But, it doesn't feel like it today. Guess things will start looking up again soon .


----------



## RandomDude

What wrath? From your ex? You two are done!

Keep the 'energy flow' moving, aka music - to maintain the positive atmosphere.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> What wrath? From your ex? You two are done!
> 
> Keep the 'energy flow' moving, aka music - to maintain the positive atmosphere.


In the past I would have yeah. Now I do what I like, when I like . I used to get given the silent treatment, or treated coldly for going out, so even when I did go out it was always fairly tame. Maybe a couple of beers and home by 11pm, and even then I'd be made to suffer for it!

Music is good, I couldn't live without it. It keeps me sane at the moment, but unfortunately I can't listen to any music while I'm at work. Soon as I finish I'll be getting my headphones out though .

Think I need to do something tonight to cheer me up, but I'm not sure what yet. Preferably something involving women .


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Just got to keep reminding myself of how much fun I had at the weekend and how I wouldn't have been able to do that before without suffering some serious wrath. Keep looking at the upsides WWB, there are many.


I remember when I was separated and going through my D, I bought a new pair of Sketchers. I show up at my kid's ballgame, she's there, and she comes up and says that she doesn't like my new shoes. I smiled and said "It's so great that I no longer have to consider you or what you will think, in any of my decisions, any more!"

Boy, was she ticked-off. Hee hee

It's dysfunctional how we let these women weasel their way into every aspect of our thought process. To the point where we were always thinking of them first. What would she think? How will she react? Blah blah blah. Co-dependent nice guy pu$$y.

WWB, you are beginning to experience the freedom of being you. Keep focusing on you. 

If you are feeling low, go exercise  

If you are obsessing? Safe place

Learn to enjoy your solitude


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> I remember when I was separated and going through my D, I bought a new pair of Sketchers. I show up at my kid's ballgame, she's there, and she comes up and says that she doesn't like my new shoes. I smiled and said "It's so great that I no longer have to consider you or what you will think, in any of my decisions, any more!"
> 
> Boy, was she ticked-off. Hee hee
> 
> It's dysfunctional how we let these women weasel their way into every aspect of our thought process. To the point where we were always thinking of them first. What would she think? How will she react? Blah blah blah. Co-dependent nice guy pu$$y.
> 
> WWB, you are beginning to experience the freedom of being you. Keep focusing on you.
> 
> If you are feeling low, go exercise
> 
> If you are obsessing? Safe place
> 
> Learn to enjoy your solitude


It's not just dysfunctional, it's completely broken. I won't let anyone get under my skin like that again. I won't put anyone before myself. I'm done being a nice guy, and I'm done being a codependent, and I'm done being a doormat.

Pictures of me at the weekend keep appearing on facebook, the majority of which I have women hanging off me. I imagine she'll be pretty ticked off if she sees them . I don't know if she checks my facebook page out anymore, and I don't really care. 

I'm enjoying being free, and I'm enjoying being my true self, that guy has been gone for far too long. Ironically, if I'd just been my true self all along, I probably wouldn't be here, but lesson learned, and learned well. 

I am slowly learning to enjoy my solitude, but I do find it much easier to be happy when I'm socialising. Things are definitely getting easier though. I look forward to the day when I can go a whole day without thinking of ___.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Just realised how happy I am to be shot of my Father-In-Law, and his Wife. Infact almost the whole of that side of her family. They aren't good people, materialistic and overly competitive and show-offish. We never got on well and I was always treated as an unwanted guest. I didn't like them either to be fair.

Positives +1.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Feeling pretty low today, although I was expecting it to happen again at some point. All part of the roller coaster I guess. Although since Friday I've been feeling pretty good, and this is by far the longest I've gone yet without a low-point.
> 
> Just got to keep reminding myself of how much fun I had at the weekend and how I wouldn't have been able to do that before without suffering some serious wrath. Keep looking at the upsides WWB, there are many.
> 
> But, it doesn't feel like it today. Guess things will start looking up again soon .


Ugh, I feel you here. I had an amazing weekend, even shared bits of it with my H and our daughter.. Still, Monday brought the roller coaster right back.

Sorry you were feelin low WWB. I hope you hang on to that night, dancing with all of the women. I've noticed that even though I'm totally not into the idea of dating, etc. that I enjoy the bits of attention I do receive. It's nice to be able to notice other people, without feeling held back.

Hold on to those feelings WWB. There are TONS of other people in the world, and slowly we get to start discovering this.. :smthumbup:


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Feeling pretty low today, although I was expecting it to happen again at some point. All part of the roller coaster I guess. Although since Friday I've been feeling pretty good, and this is by far the longest I've gone yet without a low-point.
> 
> Just got to keep reminding myself of how much fun I had at the weekend and how I wouldn't have been able to do that before without suffering some serious wrath. Keep looking at the upsides WWB, there are many.
> 
> But, it doesn't feel like it today. Guess things will start looking up again soon .


WWB look on the bright side of things. From your post above - "this is by far the longest I've gone yet without a low-point" - that my friend is progress.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Ugh, I feel you here. I had an amazing weekend, even shared bits of it with my H and our daughter.. Still, Monday brought the roller coaster right back.
> 
> Sorry you were feelin low WWB. I hope you hang on to that night, dancing with all of the women. I've noticed that even though I'm totally not into the idea of dating, etc. that I enjoy the bits of attention I do receive. It's nice to be able to notice other people, without feeling held back.
> 
> Hold on to those feelings WWB. There are TONS of other people in the world, and slowly we get to start discovering this.. :smthumbup:


I think I'm pretty emotionally conflicted at the moment. On one side, I'm enjoying my freedom and I'm living life to the full, and doing it for me. On the other side, I still miss my W. I miss her voice, her touch, her eyes, her presence, cuddles, sex etc. just everything really. I look forward to the day I'm ready to have that again with someone else, but a much improved version. 

Heh, nothing to be sorry for  it happens. Feel a lot better today, all part of the roller coaster. 

I'm not in to the idea of dating either really yet, but last night I paid a visit to Miss Flirt that I visited last week. It was a lot less awkward this time and we had a good laugh. All purely platonic of course  (although I did catch her checking me out a few times ). She's a nice girl, and she could be a good friend, but I doubt there could be anything beyond that.

I'm trying to hold on to the weekend, I've even set a picture of me and a random girl as my background on my phone, so every time I get my phone out or briefly consider contacting my STBXW, I just look at that and remind myself of how much fun I can have without her.

There sure are a lot of people out there, I didn't realise just how many. I also had this idea that single women were a rarity, but it turns out I was wrong .


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> WWB look on the bright side of things. From your post above - "this is by far the longest I've gone yet without a low-point" - that my friend is progress.


Progress is good  I do try to look on the bright side as often as I can, some days it's more difficult than others though! With time, it can only get easier.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> I think I'm pretty emotionally conflicted at the moment. On one side, I'm enjoying my freedom and I'm living life to the full, and doing it for me. On the other side, I still miss my W. I miss her voice, her touch, her eyes, her presence, cuddles, sex etc. just everything really. I look forward to the day I'm ready to have that again with someone else, but a much improved version.
> 
> Heh, nothing to be sorry for  it happens. Feel a lot better today, all part of the roller coaster.
> 
> I'm not in to the idea of dating either really yet, but last night I paid a visit to Miss Flirt that I visited last week. It was a lot less awkward this time and we had a good laugh. All purely platonic of course  (although I did catch her checking me out a few times ). She's a nice girl, and she could be a good friend, but I doubt there could be anything beyond that.
> 
> I'm trying to hold on to the weekend, I've even set a picture of me and a random girl as my background on my phone, so every time I get my phone out or briefly consider contacting my STBXW, I just look at that and remind myself of how much fun I can have without her.
> 
> There sure are a lot of people out there, I didn't realise just how many. I also had this idea that single women were a rarity, but it turns out I was wrong .


Glad you're doing better, and that you've got little reminders in place. You CAN and WILL have a good time, with or without her. And in reality, it's her loss, not yours. You've been given another chance to do it right, whenever that time may come!

Sounds like you're moving right along in that tunnel of yours, even though it's hard sometimes 

Haha, and I totally agree. I've always thought that since I was attached/married, most everyone else was. Come to find out, there are PLENTY of single people around, and often, quite a few of them have their own horror stories. It doesn't do much for pursuing a new relationship, but sometimes it's just nice to meet other people who are thrown back into the real world, just like we were!


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Glad you're doing better, and that you've got little reminders in place. You CAN and WILL have a good time, with or without her. And in reality, it's her loss, not yours. You've been given another chance to do it right, whenever that time may come!
> 
> Sounds like you're moving right along in that tunnel of yours, even though it's hard sometimes
> 
> Haha, and I totally agree. I've always thought that since I was attached/married, most everyone else was. Come to find out, there are PLENTY of single people around, and often, quite a few of them have their own horror stories. It doesn't do much for pursuing a new relationship, but sometimes it's just nice to meet other people who are thrown back into the real world, just like we were!


Yeah I seem to be doing better today . I know I'll have a good time with or without her! I've proven that to myself a few times now! I'm trying not to look at it as her loss though, because in reality, I wasn't a good husband, and I had my own parts in the downfall of my M. I'm trying to see it more as my gain. I gain my freedom, and I'm getting myself back. I like the guy I'm becoming again. 

I do enjoy moving through a good tunnel  haha. But seriously - I do feel like I'm making progress here, and like I've learned a lot and grown as a person. Most importantly I feel like I still have a lot more to learn.

There really are so many attractive single people out there, I just didn't realise it before. When I'm ready, I know that there are good things waiting out there for me, and there are for you too .


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I seem to be doing better today . I know I'll have a good time with or without her! I've proven that to myself a few times now! I'm trying not to look at it as her loss though, because in reality, I wasn't a good husband, and I had my own parts in the downfall of my M. I'm trying to see it more as my gain. I gain my freedom, and I'm getting myself back. I like the guy I'm becoming again.
> 
> I do enjoy moving through a good tunnel  haha. But seriously - I do feel like I'm making progress here, and like I've learned a lot and grown as a person. Most importantly I feel like I still have a lot more to learn.
> 
> There really are so many attractive single people out there, I just didn't realise it before. When I'm ready, I know that there are good things waiting out there for me, and there are for you too .


That's a good way of looking at it, as your gain. I want to adopt that attitude!

You definitely do seem to be making progress, and you seem more excited about it as well  I can tell just in the past few weeks that things have taken a turn for you, and despite the rough days that come and go, you seem to bounce back quickly, and keep moving forward.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not in to the idea of dating either really yet, but last night I paid a visit to Miss Flirt that I visited last week. It was a lot less awkward this time and we had a good laugh. All purely platonic of course  (although I did catch her checking me out a few times ). She's a nice girl, and she could be a good friend, but I doubt there could be anything beyond that.


Well WWB, I can now say that you are probably right about not being ready to date and definitely not ready to engage in a new physical relationship. 

You should wait until you _know_ you are over your wife. How do I know? I went out with that woman I was telling you about again...and I ended up sleeping with her.

I thought it would make me feel better...WRONG. I felt _*absolutely terrible*_.

It's kind of ironic that I felt this terrible after doing that _knowing _my ex and I are through, and she had no problem cheating on me _while_ together.

This put a lot of things into prospective for me though. My ex-wife and I _clearly_ have different hearts. I can now peacefully let her go knowing we just aren't the same type of people.

So I would advise you to not make the same mistake as me. From what I know about you, you would end up feeling the same way as me. You're better off waiting for awhile. Take care man.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Brokenman85 said:


> I thought it would make me feel better...WRONG. I felt _*absolutely terrible*_.


This is exactly how I'm afraid of feeling. I'm sorry you're going through this 

I'm wondering if it will always feel bad the first time, for everyone.. I mean, it's going to be weird for sure. And hard. And sad. And on and on. So maybe it's kind of normal?

I'm truly sorry you had to experience this, but at least it helped you gain a little perspective.


----------



## KnottedStomach

Well Brokenman and crazybeautiful, I think when you meet someone that you really and I mean really like, you wont feel terrible. You will be happy. At least I like to think this. It really depends on your state of mind.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> That's a good way of looking at it, as your gain. I want to adopt that attitude!
> 
> You definitely do seem to be making progress, and you seem more excited about it as well  I can tell just in the past few weeks that things have taken a turn for you, and despite the rough days that come and go, you seem to bounce back quickly, and keep moving forward.


Looking at it as "her loss" places the focus on her again. I'm done focusing on her. Why should I when she didn't/doesn't focus on me .

I try hard to bounce back, and it takes a lot of determination and effort, but I manage . Things have taken a turn, I'm growing more confident and outgoing. I'm starting to get used to and _enjoy_ the benefits of being single.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Well WWB, I can now say that you are probably right about not being ready to date and definitely not ready to engage in a new physical relationship.
> 
> You should wait until you _know_ you are over your wife. How do I know? I went out with that woman I was telling you about again...and I ended up sleeping with her.
> 
> I thought it would make me feel better...WRONG. I felt _*absolutely terrible*_.
> 
> It's kind of ironic that I felt this terrible after doing that _knowing _my ex and I are through, and she had no problem cheating on me _while_ together.
> 
> This put a lot of things into prospective for me though. My ex-wife and I _clearly_ have different hearts. I can now peacefully let her go knowing we just aren't the same type of people.
> 
> So I would advise you don't make the same mistake as me. From what I know about you, you would end up feeling the same way as me. You're better off waiting for awhile. Take care man.


Man sorry to hear this BM . I'd imagine you're feeling guilty, like I would, but you've done nothing wrong so try not to beat yourself up about it. When those two girls kissed me on Saturday, I felt indifferent in my feelings towards my W. I actually kind of enjoyed it. That could be because I was a little bit on the tipsy side though .

The way I see it, I'll know when the time is right and when I'm ready, just like I knew the first time I got physical with STBXW, it just felt right. I can't pinpoint exactly why or explain it any further, but I just knew I was ready to take it to that level with her. That'll happen again, I trust my gut .

Remember, you're your own man again now. What you do, or don't do with other women, is down to you. You have to answer to nobody but yourself.


----------



## oviid

WWB it's good to read updates from you that show hope and confidence returning. While I have not been out the way you have getting kisses  I have noticed things lately that I have not in many years like a smile directed at me or someone checking me out. Those things I totally forgot about for a long time. Also it's been almost two weeks since I've had my head in my hands in disrepair. My confidence level has really shot up and I don't feel like a victim right now but someone who is going to have a kick a$$ future.

Here's to more days of clarity.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> WWB it's good to read updates from you that show hope and confidence returning. While I have not been out the way you have getting kisses  I have noticed things lately that I have not in many years like a smile directed at me or someone checking me out. Those things I totally forgot about for a long time. Also it's been almost two weeks since I've had my head in my hands in disrepair. My confidence level has really shot up and I don't feel like a victim right now but someone who is going to have a kick a$$ future.
> 
> Here's to more days of clarity.


That's awesome news oviid  I'm glad things are on the up for you! Keep it up, and keep focusing on you. You'll become a happier and more fulfilled person for it!

Hehe, I didn't intend to get those kisses, they just happened. I guess they liked my awful dancing, then liked what they saw under the mask. I plan to go out again clubbing the weekend after my birthday. May get a hotel room and stay in the city though, I'm 

I've also been noticing women checking me out, and smiles directed my way. My low self-esteem programming however immediately causes me to think "Oh they must be looking at someone else" but I'm starting to think more like "They are looking at me, and they should be" .

Here's definitely to more days of clarity, more days of independence, more days of freedom, and more days of being carefree and living life to the full!

*Holds up beer*


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, STBXW contacted me today to discuss her vehicle tax. She renewed it but forgot to change her address with the DVLA (DMV for Americans). She contacted me about this on Saturday, and I said that I'd forward it on to her. This morning she asked if I'd received it, and as luck would have it, I got it yesterday when I got home from work.

I responded, just telling her that I would be putting it in the mail today. I didn't leave anything open for further conversation, and I kept it strictly business.

Proud of myself.


----------



## RandomDude

> How do I know? I went out with that woman I was telling you about again...and I ended up sleeping with her.
> 
> I thought it would make me feel better...WRONG. I felt absolutely terrible.


Hell and I thought there was something wrong with ME because I felt rotten after making out with my date. I agree with you BM - guess we shouldn't rush things when we're not ready.



> So, STBXW contacted me today to discuss her vehicle tax. She renewed it but forgot to change her address with the DVLA (DMV for Americans). She contacted me about this on Saturday, and I said that I'd forward it on to her. This morning she asked if I'd received it, and as luck would have it, I got it yesterday when I got home from work.
> 
> I responded, just telling her that I would be putting it in the mail today. I didn't leave anything open for further conversation, and I kept it strictly business.
> 
> Proud of myself.


Well fking done mate! 
Proud of you too

So you heading out this weekend or what?


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> So, STBXW contacted me today to discuss her vehicle tax. She renewed it but forgot to change her address with the DVLA (DMV for Americans). She contacted me about this on Saturday, and I said that I'd forward it on to her. This morning she asked if I'd received it, and as luck would have it, I got it yesterday when I got home from work.
> 
> I responded, just telling her that I would be putting it in the mail today. I didn't leave anything open for further conversation, and I kept it strictly business.
> 
> Proud of myself.


Good on you WWB.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Hell and I thought there was something wrong with ME because I felt rotten after making out with my date. I agree with you BM - guess we shouldn't rush things when we're not ready.
> 
> 
> 
> Well fking done mate!
> Proud of you too
> 
> So you heading out this weekend or what?


I'd like to head out and socialise, maybe work a bit of game in to my night, but I don't think I can unfortunately. Can't go out on Friday because I've got a 6 hour tattoo session on Saturday, and they won't tattoo me if I'm hungover. Can't drink Saturday night because I have to drive Sunday morning. 

So a quiet one this weekend for me!

Might make next weekend a quiet one too, and then go crazy the following weekend for my birthday. Thinking of going in to the city, hitting a club and staying in a hotel room (alone of course.... ).


----------



## Brokenman85

RandomDude said:


> Hell and I thought there was something wrong with ME because I felt rotten after making out with my date. I agree with you BM - guess we shouldn't rush things when we're not ready.


Making out is one thing, but for the love of God don't sleep with anyone lol. As men know, once you typically sleep with a woman they become attached to you. The very reason that causes wives to leave after an affair. Well, now it seems this woman has fallen for me hard....I think we got a clinger here. Sh!t


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Can't go out on Friday because I've got a 6 hour tattoo session on Saturday.


What are you getting done man?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Making out is one thing, but for the love of God don't sleep with anyone lol. As men know, once you typically sleep with a woman they become attached you. The very reason that causes wives to leave after an affair. Well, now it seems this woman has fallen for me hard....I think we got a clinger here. Sh!t


I still couldn't imagine sleeping with anyone other than my STBXW, and I think it will probably be a long time until I do unfortunately. I still find my STBXW very physically attractive. I miss the physical aspect of our relationship a lot at the moment. I miss a lot of it to be honest, the way I used to feel too. 

Also feeling a bit like I want to talk to her at the moment, but I know that it will just set me back, and cause me more hurt, so I'm not going to.

Sometimes I really just want to try for R, but it'd be a wasted effort.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> What are you getting done man?


Getting an old one re-worked, and then having some lotus flowers and a dotwork mandala done on my left shoulder/bicep.

Completely unplanned, but by the time it's done I'll have a half-sleeve.


----------



## mark33

Hey man I read your entire thread and I think your doing a great job. From the way it seems the best thing to do is move on and find a woman who loves and respects you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

Brokenman85 said:


> Making out is one thing, but for the love of God don't sleep with anyone lol. As men know, once you typically sleep with a woman they become attached to you. The very reason that causes wives to leave after an affair. Well, now it seems this woman has fallen for me hard....I think we got a clinger here. Sh!t


Like a stage 5 clinger?


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I still couldn't imagine sleeping with anyone other than my STBXW, and I think it will probably be a long time until I do unfortunately. I still find my STBXW very physically attractive. I miss the physical aspect of our relationship a lot at the moment. I miss a lot of it to be honest, the way I used to feel too.
> 
> Also feeling a bit like I want to talk to her at the moment, but I know that it will just set me back, and cause me more hurt, so I'm not going to.
> 
> Sometimes I really just want to try for R, but it'd be a wasted effort.


My experience with sex after marriage is that it took a while to feel totally into it. I think some of the hardwiring of the XW is still there and tells you you're cheating, so it's hard to enjoy it as much. 

ONS can be difficult for the same reason, lack of emotional commitment.

Sex is awesome, but like double awesome if you love the one you're bonking.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> My experience with sex after marriage is that it took a while to feel totally into it. I think some of the hardwiring of the XW is still there and tells you you're cheating, so it's hard to enjoy it as much.
> 
> ONS can be difficult for the same reason, lack of emotional commitment.
> 
> Sex is awesome, but like double awesome if you love the one you're bonking.


I couldn't agree more. I've only ever had one ONS and afterwards vowed that I wouldn't do it again, not because I didn't enjoy it, but because it's not as fun when there is no meaning to it.

I know that I wouldn't be cheating if I were to have sex with someone, but I still don't know how it will affect me. It could either boost my confidence, or make me an emotional wreck. Big risk to take. I'm sure I'll get to a point where I feel I can take that risk though, in time.


----------



## GotLifeBack

mark33 said:


> Hey man I read your entire thread and I think your doing a great job. From the way it seems the best thing to do is move on and find a woman who loves and respects you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks dude . I'm trying to move on and would like to find that woman, but first I need to love and respect myself.

Then I'll worry about the hordes of hotties queuing up for me .


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Thanks dude . I'm trying to move on and would like to find that woman, but first I need to love and respect myself.
> 
> Then I'll worry about the hordes of hotties queuing up for me .


I like the confidence.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I like the confidence.


Me too  

I think the weekend helped boost my confidence a bit, I also have two women constantly flirting with me via facebook on a daily basis. It's nice to feel wanted again. Really looking forward to getting out on the town again soon.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So usually on Halloween me and the STBXW would chill out together and watch a nice scary movie, maybe have a few drinks.

Not sure what to do tonight to stop me thinking about how we aren't doing that this year.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> So usually on Halloween me and the STBXW would chill out together and watch a nice scary movie, maybe have a few drinks.
> 
> Not sure what to do tonight to stop me thinking about how we aren't doing that this year.


Do it with a friend or solo. I'm solo tonight, so drinks and zombie flicks and handing out candy to the kids. Should be fun.


----------



## oviid

WantWifeBack said:


> So usually on Halloween me and the STBXW would chill out together and watch a nice scary movie, maybe have a few drinks.
> 
> Not sure what to do tonight to stop me thinking about how we aren't doing that this year.


Focus. Just stay focused and don't, I mean whatever you do don't think about the stbx too much. Keep your head on straight and remember you are actually doing good, heck you are doing better than good. No matter what happens you are going to be fine and have a kick arse future.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Do it with a friend or solo. I'm solo tonight, so drinks and zombie flicks and handy out candy to the kids. Should be fun.


In the end I just chilled out, played some guitar and some video games, actually had quite a nice evening. I must admit, I do enjoy just being able to do things for me, as an when I feel like it. 

Positives +1 again.



> Focus. Just stay focused and don't, I mean whatever you do don't think about the stbx too much. Keep your head on straight and remember you are actually doing good, heck you are doing better than good. No matter what happens you are going to be fine and have a kick arse future.


I managed to not think of her too much, and didn't lose my head. I'm looking forward to my kick arse future, but I'm trying to just live in the present. People spend so much time regretting the past, or fearing/dreaming of the future, that they forget to enjoy the present. That's what I'm trying to do.

I spent years stuck in the past, hoping for a better future. I've decided I'm not going to do that any more, I'll take each day as it comes. Why dwell on what we can't change, why dwell on what we have no control over?

Carpe Diem


----------



## GotLifeBack

Urgh, STBXW text me today fishing for conversation. 

She thanked me for something that she thanked me for yesterday, and taggged a "I hope you're well" on the end of the text. She really had no reason to text me at all. 

I think she was hoping to illicit a response along the lines of "No problem  I'm good thanks, how are you?".

I'm ignoring it. I used to feel happy or look to find hope when she contacted me. Now I just feel exasperated and I just want her to leave me alone.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Urgh, STBXW text me today fishing for conversation.
> 
> She thanked me for something that she thanked me for yesterday, and taggged a "I hope you're well" on the end of the text. She really had no reason to text me at all.
> 
> I think she was hoping to illicit a response along the lines of "No problem  I'm good thanks, how are you?".
> 
> I'm ignoring it. I used to feel happy or look to find hope when she contacted me. Now I just feel exasperated and I just want her to leave me alone.


Good. Keep the focus on you. 

You seem to be on the right track.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Good. Keep the focus on you.
> 
> You seem to be on the right track.


Trying my best to . So far so good.

When I focus on me and remove her, I feel so much better. It's when I focus on her that I feel down. I'm doing my best to act as if she doesn't exist. That's not entirely untrue, because the her I knew, doesn't any longer.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I ignored STBXW all weekend and she sent me another text yesterday, asking if I'd seen something of hers about the house, and saying that she has some of my books.

I haven't seen this item of hers, I even had a quick look around yesterday. I'm not sure whether to ignore her or to tell her that I haven't seen it and to keep/dispose of the books. I don't want to have to see her to get my books back. 

Had a pretty good weekend again, tattoo session went great, little sore but worth it, went to a firework display, paid a visit to Miss Flirt, had a driving lesson and joined the gym!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I just decided to reply and told her I couldn't find it, and to keep or dispose of the books.

Calm. Collected. Businesslike. Dispassionate.

She was likely expecting me to make a big thing of it as an excuse to see her, but I really don't want to. It wouldn't do me any good at all right now. Although, not sure why I care what she was expecting.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Spoke to STBXW briefly today, about her remaining possessions at the house, her mail etc, then she brought up our relationship, and that it was "f*cked up". I just agreed and thanked her for showing me what a POS I has been.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Now STBXW is trying to talk about our relationship, where it went wrong and why etc. I told her my views on what went wrong, and that I hope she's happy in the future.

Nice unambiguous "Good luck because I won't be around to see it" message.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Now STBXW is trying to talk about our relationship, where it went wrong and why etc. I told her my views on what went wrong, and that I hope she's happy in the future.
> 
> Nice unambiguous "Good luck because I won't be around to see it" message.


It really doesn't matter what went wrong from her point of view. She didn't even try to fix things and just walked out. There is no excuse for that. This wasn't just a relationship, this was a marriage. She failed to keep her commitment. Once again, she is just trying to justify her actions. Typical wayward BS talk. Continue with No contact man...


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> It really doesn't matter what went wrong from her point of view. She didn't even try to fix things and just walked out. There is no excuse for that. This wasn't just a relationship, this was a marriage. She failed to keep her commitment. Once again, she is just trying to justify her actions. Typical wayward BS talk. Continue with No contact man...


No it doesn't matter, I know what went wrong on my end, what went wrong on her end is irrelevant to me. It's not my problem, I can't do anything to change it so I'm not going to waste the time or effort. 

I don't agree with some of the stuff she said yesterday, but I let it go and haven't over thought it. There's no point. It just causes me unnecessary stress. 

Who knows what will happen once I've sorted my issues, and she's sorted hers. The future isn't clear, nobody knows what it holds. All I know about the future is that I'm going to prepare myself, so whatever it may hold, I'll be ready for it.

The best way to prepare for the future is to live in the present, which is something I'm slowly learning.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

What is the status of the D process? Have papers been filed?

Be thankful you don't have any kids with you STBX. Just chalk this relationship up as a learning experience.

Your next go-round will be so much better. 

Keep growing. Keep learning.

Good to see you joined a gym.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> WWB,
> 
> What is the status of the D process? Have papers been filed?
> 
> Be thankful you don't have any kids with you STBX. Just chalk this relationship up as a learning experience.
> 
> Your next go-round will be so much better.
> 
> Keep growing. Keep learning.
> 
> Good to see you joined a gym.


No D has been filed yet as legally we can't begin proceedings until May next year. I'm not entirely sure what the plan is when this time rolls around.

I think I'm still partially hoping that it won't come to that, but I'm at a place now where whatever happens, I know I'll be happy. The future is uncertain and full of infinite possibilities, therefore I can't overlook the fact that one of those possibilities is R.

I am thankful we don't have any children, and I'm also pleased that not having children yet was the one thing that I stood my ground on with STBXW, else this would now be a lot more difficult.

I'm looking forward to the next go-round, whenever that may be. I don't have an idea of a timeline for which I'll be able to enter another relationship, all I do know is that time isn't yet.

I'm trying my best to learn and grow, and to work through my issues and my pos tendencies. I do feel like I have learned a lot about myself since she left, I've also learned a lot about life, relationships, and women in general. 

Looking forward to hitting the gym tomorrow night, I think it will do me a lot of good .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Huh, feeling like I want to R with my wife today. Weird. I thought I was past that. Guess not.

Obviously I can't act on those feelings, not yet, if ever.


----------



## angstire

I still will have fleeting moments of it too. Ride the emotions. You need to feel them to heal and they'll pass.

I found emails from when we first started dating and came the closest I have in months to reaching out to her. It lasted for 2 minutes, but it was strong for that time. Then I remembered where we are and what's been done and it passed.

Ride the emotions and they'll pass.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I still will have fleeting moments of it too. Ride the emotions. You need to feel them to heal and they'll pass.
> 
> I found emails from when we first started dating and came the closest I have in months to reaching out to her. It lasted for 2 minutes, but it was strong for that time. Then I remembered where we are and what's been done and it passed.
> 
> Ride the emotions and they'll pass.


The problem is I think I'm starting to realise that I actually still love my wife quite a bit more than I thought. Don't get me wrong - I still know I'm going to be okay regardless, and I'm far from heartbroken. But feeling like I want to do all I can to see if there is any possibility of R. The last few times we've spoken it's gone well, friendly and amicable, and STBXW has even said that she doesn't know what the future holds for us. Part of me thinks that maybe that door isn't completely closed, and part of me thinks she's just trying to be gentle.

She also let me know that she's been working on herself, taking time to reflect on her as a person and that she's realised a lot about herself that she doesn't like. Of course, this could be false, I guess I'll never find out.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Maintain No Contact.

Stop talking about your past relationship with her, your feelings, her feelings, etc.

When she engages you with this stuff, it's just to assuage her guilt. Or she might momentarily feel sentimental. But, they are just words. 

All it does is hoover you back in, and get you hooked on the hopium.

Breaking attachments (what you think is love) isn't easy. The best way is no contact.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> She also let me know that she's been working on herself, taking time to reflect on her as a person and that she's realised a lot about herself that she doesn't like. Of course, this could be false, I guess I'll never find out.


Maintain no contact to work on your own stuff. She'll come back to you and say what she has to say if she makes some big realizations. In the meantime, she's just hoovering you back in, per 3Strikes.

Focus on you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Maintain No Contact.
> 
> Stop talking about your past relationship with her, your feelings, her feelings, etc.
> 
> When she engages you with this stuff, it's just to assuage her guilt. Or she might momentarily feel sentimental. But, they are just words.
> 
> All it does is hoover you back in, and get you hooked on the hopium.
> 
> Breaking attachments (what you think is love) isn't easy. The best way is no contact.


Yeah you're right. 

I keep needing to remind myself to ignore words, actions speak louder. Funnily enough I gave my sister this piece of advice yesterday as she's having some trouble with an ex. 

I would say I wish STBXW would come out and say what she wants from me, but on reflection, she already has, many times. Until her actions say otherwise, I need to take it for what it is.

The attachment will be broken in time I'm sure. It's already fading. 



> Maintain no contact to work on your own stuff. She'll come back to you and say what she has to say if she makes some big realizations. In the meantime, she's just hoovering you back in, per 3Strikes.
> 
> Focus on you.


I don't think she'll ever make those realisations anyway. It's extremely unlikely. I won't be hoovered back in again, I can't feel that pain again. 

She's talking to me again today. I think it's time to put an end to it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ok.... so STBXW has said that she needs to think about whether divorce is the right answer for us. She's also asked me to meet her for coffee.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Ok.... so STBXW has said that she needs to think about whether divorce is the right answer for us. She's also asked me to meet her for coffee.


What do* you *want?

A face-to-face is the antithesis of NC, ya know?

Do you see her hoovering attempts are increasing in intensity?

If you choose to meet her, be forewarned that this is merely an attempt for her to control you. Going in with that knowledge will be helpful.

I think it would be best, though, to put her off. Tell her there's nothing left to be said. Or, she can write her thoughts down and send them via email.

It's your journey, though.


----------



## oviid

WantWifeBack said:


> Ok.... so STBXW has said that she needs to think about whether divorce is the right answer for us. She's also asked me to meet her for coffee.


The problem we have is when we work so hard to distance ourselves from them you think that whole time you wish they would throw you a bone but when they do all those emotions come back. The hope you feel right then is also hurt because it's hard to let yourself keep hoping.

By her wanting to talk to you about whether or not the divorce is the right thing gives you that hope. If this is the person you love and you think there's some chance at a R and you really think that might work then talk to her. But be sure to protect yourself, keep you mind strong and protect your heart. Don't go into the conversation like a lost puppy begging for a scrap from her. Be confident and if you two do talk about a R be sure to stand your ground and also talk about expectations. 

I wish you all the best in this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> What do* you *want?
> 
> A face-to-face is the antithesis of NC, ya know?
> 
> Do you see her hoovering attempts are increasing in intensity?
> 
> If you choose to meet her, be forewarned that this is merely an attempt for her to control you. Going in with that knowledge will be helpful.
> 
> I think it would be best, though, to put her off. Tell her there's nothing left to be said. Or, she can write her thoughts down and send them via email.
> 
> It's your journey, though.


I know a face-to-face may not be the best idea. If I decide to go I'll go in with no expectations, no hopes. I'm not setting myself up for another fall.

At the same time, I wanted to spend my life with this woman. I wanted her to be the mother of my children, hell if I'm honest, I think I still do.

I'm not sure what to do, but I don't want to be kicking myself in the future for not exploring where this may lead.




> The problem we have is when we work so hard to distance ourselves from them you think that whole time you wish they would throw you a bone but when they do all those emotions come back. The hope you feel right then is also hurt because it's hard to let yourself keep hoping.
> 
> By her wanting to talk to you about whether or not the divorce is the right thing gives you that hope. If this is the person you love and you think there's some chance at a R and you really think that might work then talk to her. But be sure to protect yourself, keep you mind strong and protect your heart. Don't go into the conversation like a lost puppy begging for a scrap from her. Be confident and if you two do talk about a R be sure to stand your ground and also talk about expectations.
> 
> I wish you all the best in this.


Thanks oviid. This is so difficult, because I love her, but I've also discovered I love myself too. I don't want to hurt myself.

I just don't know


----------



## oviid

Be true to yourself. Really at this point you are in control of whether or not you want to talk about a R or tell her you have had enough and can't do it. Don't let your judgement be clouded by emotions and the idea of what could be. You will be fine just focus.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> Be true to yourself. Really at this point you are in control of whether or not you want to talk about a R or tell her you have had enough and can't do it. Don't let your judgement be clouded by emotions and the idea of what could be. You will be fine just focus.


If I follow my heart, I already know what my decision will be.

I know that I could forgive all of this, and I know that R is possible. 

From a purely mental judgement, I think maybe I shouldn't get back with her, but is that to spite her? to punish her? to show her what she lost? 

If I'm true to myself, I still love my wife dearly. I still want to be with her, to have a family with her, to build a happy and healthy life together.


----------



## GotLifeBack

The thing is, is she genuinely considering an R.... or is she just screwing with my head?

I can't be certain of either. 

But what can I be certain of?


----------



## ReGroup

I agree with 3X. I would put off the meet. 

She's trying to feel you out and/or dump her anger on you.

If you feel strong enough where you are be able to deflect her anger and emotional abuse - then go ahead.

Be prepared for lots of blaming. 

It's all part of the script. 3X, is pretty well versed in decoding what will go on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> I agree with 3X. I would put off the meet.
> 
> She's trying to feel you out and/or dump her anger on you.
> 
> If you feel strong enough where you are be able to deflect her anger and emotional abuse - then go ahead.
> 
> Be prepared for lots of blaming.
> 
> It's all part of the script. 3X, is pretty well versed in decoding what will go on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know I'm strong enough, I wasn't before, but I am now.

I know this because I'm 100% certain that regardless of the outcome, regardless of R or not, I'll be fine.

I have nothing to lose here.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> The thing is, is she genuinely considering an R.... or is she just screwing with my head?
> 
> I can't be certain of either.
> 
> But what can I be certain of?


You can be certain of what you want. Her, no guarantees. if you're not certain, put it off.

If she wants to talk R, she'll understand. If she wants to drain emotions, she'll explode.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> You can be certain of what you want. Her, no guarantees. if you're not certain, put it off.
> 
> If she wants to talk R, she'll understand. If she wants to drain emotions, she'll explode.


I am certain of what I want. She's undecided, but the possibility is there. She said she wants to meet for coffee to discuss it with me. 

This is more than I've had from her in the past few months.

If I do meet her, I'll go in guarded and leave my emotions at home.

This is such a curveball for me, I really didn't expect this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Today I find myself wondering if this is such a good idea.

I don't want to get my hopes up for her to just crush them again.

But I do want to see where this could lead...


----------



## LongWalk

If I were in that situation, the caffine would have me on edge. Make her pay for it.

Ang is right about the blame shifting. If she just wants to do an autopsy of your marriage and what you hear is tiresome, just break it off and leave.

Let her start the conversation. Make he spill her guts first. After her first speech, if she sounds mixed up, maybe you can ask her:

"So does this mean we are going to have wild monkey sex soon?"

And later ask:

"Does she imagine being pregnant with your baby?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> If I were in that situation, the caffine would have me on edge. Make her pay for it.
> 
> Ang is right about the blame shifting. If she just wants to do an autopsy of your marriage and what you hear is tiresome, just break it off and leave.
> 
> Let her start the conversation. Make he spill her guts first. After her first speech, if she sounds mixed up, maybe you can ask her:
> 
> "So does this mean we are going to have wild monkey sex soon?"
> 
> And later ask:
> 
> "Does she imagine being pregnant with your baby?


The autopsy has already been done several times. She says she needs to think about things and whether she wants to give it a shot. If it does become blame shifting, I'll just leave.

I'll probably opt for decaf .

Haha, wild monkey sex, I like that .

I know she wanted to have kids with me, and I've recently learned that was part of the reason she left, because I wasn't ready for that. I do want to have kids with her, and that may be possible if we R, but it won't be possible until we are fully R.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> The autopsy has already been done several times. She says she needs to think about things and whether she wants to give it a shot. If it does become blame shifting, I'll just leave.
> 
> I'll probably opt for decaf .
> 
> Haha, wild monkey sex, I like that .
> 
> *I know she wanted to have kids with me, and I've recently learned that was part of the reason she left, because I wasn't ready for that.* I do want to have kids with her, and that may be possible if we R, but it won't be possible until we are fully R.


Don't buy that. That's blameshifting on her part.

You're starting to put her on that pedestal again. Don't do it!

When you meet with her, since it seems you will, be calm, firm and dispassionate. Do not show emotion. Hear her out, but do very little talking. Don't beg, don't plead. Don't tell her how you've changed. Stay at 50K.

Remember, this is most likely a Hoover attempt. She misses her WWB doormat,

She needs to give you very good reasons _to even consider_ taking her back.

I'm thinking this isn't going to go as you hope, but perhaps you need to do it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Don't buy that. That's blameshifting on her part.
> 
> You're starting to put her on that pedestal again. Don't do it!
> 
> When you meet with her, since it seems you will, be calm, firm and dispassionate. Do not show emotion. Hear her out, but do very little talking. Don't beg, don't plead. Don't tell her how you've changed. Stay at 50K.
> 
> Remember, this is most likely a Hoover attempt. She misses her WWB doormat,
> 
> She needs to give you very good reasons _to even consider_ taking her back.
> 
> I'm thinking this isn't going to go as you hope, but perhaps you need to do it.


I guess it is blameshifting in a way.

I'm not putting her on a pedestal, she doesn't belong there. I belong on the pedestal, she can have a place at my right hand, or another woman could. Never again will I place anyone else on a pedestal.

I won't get emotional, I'll be at 50k the entire time. If it is a hoover attempt, then I've protected myself. If it's not, then it'll become clear very quickly. 

She does need to give me good reasons, I need to give her good reasons also though. It's not entirely her fault, I'm more than happy to accept my share of the blame, where it's justified and true.

It probably won't go down the route of R, but I'm ok with that. You're right about me needing to do it, because I'll live with that regret for the rest of my life if I don't.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

I have been following this with no need to interject, until now.

You are allowing her to weaken you, she is lost without having you pining for her. It is that control over you she wants and nothing more. She does not even realize it as such, but your posts are a complete contradiction. Stop seeing yourself as a better person with her in your life, you are not.
Read your earlier posts and realize you are just being the same weak person that started this thread.
You are coming into your own and finding independence and strength but she is what weakens you, yet you hold onto her like a security blanket.
You claim to not need the blanket, you just want to find out if it still can keep you warm. Wake up.
Your most recent posts are very telling to the reader, it is clear she is still in charge of your emotions and you are still waiting for her to say I want you back.
Don't do this to your self. She will fail and there is no point but to delay this process further.
Do what you want, I will not post further. Just what I see and read here.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> I have been following this with no need to interject, until now.
> 
> You are allowing her to weaken you, she is lost without having you pining for her. It is that control over you she wants and nothing more. She does not even realize it as such, but your posts are a complete contradiction. Stop seeing yourself as a better person with her in your life, you are not.
> Read your earlier posts and realize you are just being the same weak person that started this thread.
> You are coming into your own and finding independence and strength but she is what weakens you, yet you hold onto her like a security blanket.
> You claim to not need the blanket, you just want to find out if it still can keep you warm. Wake up.
> Your most recent posts are very telling to the reader, it is clear she is still in charge of your emotions and you are still waiting for her to say I want you back.
> Don't do this to your self. She will fail and there is no point but to delay this process further.
> Do what you want, I will not post further. Just what I see and read here.


I'm not a better person with her in my life, I'm the same person I am now. That's why I know that if it doesn't go down the road of R, I'll be just fine.

I don't feel weak, I feel strong. The strongest I've felt in a long time. That's why I feel comfortable exploring this. I feel ready for whatever life can throw at me, be it good or bad. Really good and bad are one and the same, as everything has positives and negatives.

Trust me, a few weeks ago, I would have been like an excited puppy and completely emotional. Right now, I've got this. I've got the stones for it, whatever "it" may be.


----------



## LongWalk

So when you talk to her. Listen. Let her talk. Don't say too much. Make certain that what you say you mean. Even if you say you don't know, just say is once.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> So when you talk to her. Listen. Let her talk. Don't say too much. Make certain that what you say you mean. Even if you say you don't know, just say is once.


That's the plan LW . I'm not going to recite an epic love poem, or give her a million and one reasons why she should get back together with me. If that's what she decides she wants, she needs to come to that decision on her own, otherwise it will never work.

Is it strange that I find strength from the fact that I am willing to lose her?


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Is it strange that I find strength from the fact that I am willing to lose her?


Nope, that's normal.

Stop planning for what she can do to get to you to consider an R. She left. You two are not together. Work on you. If she looks attractive to you at some point and she says she wants you, then you can figure out what needs to happen for you two to recommit.

Stop putting energy into thinking about how she can make this right. She hasn't said she wants to do that. Use that energy for you. Eff her, she left.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Nope, that's normal.
> 
> Stop planning for what she can do to get to you to consider an R. She left. You two are not together. Work on you. If she looks attractive to you at some point and she says she wants you, then you can figure out what needs to happen for you two to recommit.
> 
> Stop putting energy into thinking about how she can make this right. She hasn't said she wants to do that. Use that energy for you. Eff her, she left.


I am still working on me  It's going well. I'm going to continue working on me, whether we R or not, because I can't go back to the codependent doormat that I was, no way. I'm so much better, so much happier in myself, so much more self-confident - and that comes from me, not from her. I know I can make myself happy now, and that's a huge step for me.

The thing is, she does look attractive to me at the moment, and I her. It's a tricky situation, I'll just have to be patient, and continue looking out for myself. It's all I can do at the moment.


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> I am still working on me  It's going well. I'm going to continue working on me, whether we R or not, because I can't go back to the codependent doormat that I was, no way. I'm so much better, so much happier in myself, so much more self-confident - and that comes from me, not from her. I know I can make myself happy now, and that's a huge step for me.
> 
> The thing is, she does look attractive to me at the moment, and I her. It's a tricky situation, I'll just have to be patient, and continue looking out for myself. It's all I can do at the moment.


I don't say this to be an a$$ (or maybe I do), but I think the best thing to do is go talk to her and then come back here and tell us how it went. You'll either get beat to a pulp or high fives for how you relate what happened. Just sayin.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I don't say this to be an a$$ (or maybe I do), but I think the best thing to do is go talk to her and then come back here and tell us how it went. You'll either get beat to a pulp or high fives for how you relate what happened. Just sayin.


Haha, I'll definitely be updating my thread if I do go see her. 

She's been texting me all day, getting quite flirty, quite sexual at times. She also sent me a suggestive picture yesterday.

She told me that she still loves me, she misses me, we get on great and she loves talking to me, but that doesn't mean we'll get back together. I can't really argue with that, it's her choice at the end of the day.

Just gotta be patient, not like it'll kill me as I'm not looking to start a relationship with anyone else right now, so really nothing has changed.

Just waiting to see an action to back up her words. It may never come, but I'd like to find out.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So today I haven't spoken to my wife (STBXW, ex, I don't quite know what to call her anymore).

I'm wondering if I should leave it and let her come to me, or if I should send her a message to keep this ball rolling.

I've been doing a lot of thinking, and I know that an R won't be easy, but if I can have that R, and not jeapordise my happiness, my sanity, my space and my freedom, I'm going to go for it. Anything less than that is a deal breaker. 

I won't change to suit her, I won't try to "win" her approval by being a Nice Guy. I won't be a doormat. I'm a man. I have my dignity, I have my honour, I have my pride and I have the code I live my life by.

At the same time I recognise my faults, and those I'm changing and correcting for me. Nobody else. For my own future.


----------



## GotLifeBack

STBXW is now saying that she can't do it.

I was expecting this.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Will you go NC now? For real?


----------



## GotLifeBack

She's unsure of whether she wants to get back together, she needs time to think.

She's scared, and I understand that, I am too.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Do you see how her Hoovering has placed the focus back on her?


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Will you go NC now? For real?


I'm going NC to give her some space to think.

I'll use the time to continue working on myself.


----------



## woosaa

My wife is doing something very similar to me at the moment. This time it is different for me. At the moment she is calling me and texting and just trying to be part of my day to day life. Sometimes I do not answer and sometimes I do. I am in a place where her attempt is not slowing me down on my own moving forward. 


This has to be your train of thought. Do not engage in conversation unless you know you are always moving forward. If not that glimmer of false hope is going to set you back. This will also set boundaries and eventually show your spouse that you are not F**king around. For her to even have a chance with you she needs to do the real work. Then and only then you will consider to take her back.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Do you see how her Hoovering has placed the focus back on her?


Yes, I do. It has placed some of the focus back on her, but my primary focus is still on me.

If after this period of NC she decides she doesn't want to pursue an R any further, then so be it. I'll be fine, and I know I will.

I know I can be happy without her, I know I can still find love again, and have a family and all the things I ever dreamed of. I don't _need_ her for that to happen. I'd love to share that with her though, as it's what I always envisaged.

But, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. I've got the strength to get through whatever the outcome may be.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Yes, I do. It has placed some of the focus back on her, but my primary focus is still on me.
> 
> If after this period of NC she decides she doesn't want to pursue an R any further, then so be it. I'll be fine, and I know I will.
> 
> I know I can be happy without her, I know I can still find love again, and have a family and all the things I ever dreamed of. I don't _need_ her for that to happen. I'd love to share that with her though, *as it's what I always envisaged.*
> 
> *But, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.* I've got the strength to get through whatever the outcome may be.


The red highlights are red flags. Ruminate on those thoughts.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> My wife is doing something very similar to me at the moment. This time it is different for me. At the moment she is calling me and texting and just trying to be part of my day to day life. Sometimes I do not answer and sometimes I do. I am in a place where her attempt is not slowing me down on my own moving forward.
> 
> 
> This has to be your train of thought. Do not engage in conversation unless you know you are always moving forward. If not that glimmer of false hope is going to set you back. This will also set boundaries and eventually show your spouse that you are not F**king around. For her to even have a chance with you she needs to do the real work. Then and only then you will consider to take her back.


I am still moving forward. Before when I spoke to her it was painful and I was dragged backwards. Only after I was completely ready to lose her, did I find that I was able to talk to her. That's also when I realised that I have an awesome future ahead of me, regardless of whether she is a part of it or not. I'd like to share it with her, but it's not *necessary*.

I realise that everything I've done since I started this thread, all of the improvements, I've done for myself. I've proven to myself that I don't need her in order to be happy. That gives me so much strength.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> The red highlights are red flags. Ruminate on those thoughts.


I have spent countless hours thinking about those things.

Just because I always envisaged that future with her, it doesn't mean I can't have it without her. I'd like to have it with her, I'd love to have it with her, but if it's not her, there will be others.

Just as if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be - on the flipside, if it is meant to be, then it will be. Time will tell on this one. Either way, I'm ready.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Yes, I do. It has placed some of the focus back on her, but my primary focus is still on me.
> 
> If after this period of NC she decides she doesn't want to pursue an R any further, then so be it. I'll be fine, and I know I will.
> 
> I know I can be happy without her, I know I can still find love again, and have a family and all the things I ever dreamed of. I don't _need_ her for that to happen. I'd love to share that with her though, as it's what I always envisaged.
> 
> But, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. I've got the strength to get through whatever the outcome may be.


Do you now see she just wants you to want her. It has little to nothing to do with her feelings for you. It is her way of defining her value. You need to stop allowing her to have it this way.
She used to send you any message and you would get all excited, then you started to toughen a bit so she has taken it a bit further with mentioning her maybe wanting you and you start being agreeable and flirty with her, now she has pulled away again because she got what she wanted and all that is left is for you to get something out of this, so it is pull back time again for her, until she needs to feel validated once again, and she will eventually take this all the way back to sex with her, and maybe moving back in, but that will not change the fact it is all happening just to validate her and once she receives what she needs she will pull back again.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> Do you now see she just wants you to want her. It has little to nothing to do with her feelings for you. It is her way of defining her value. You need to stop allowing her to have it this way.
> She used to send you any message and you would get all excited, then you started to toughen a bit so she has taken it a bit further with mentioning her maybe wanting you and you start being agreeable and flirty with her, now she has pulled away again because she got what she wanted and all that is left is for you to get something out of this, so it is pull back time again for her, until she needs to feel validated once again, and she will eventually take this all the way back to sex with her, and maybe moving back in, but that will not change the fact it is all happening just to validate her and once she receives what she needs she will pull back again.


I know she wants me to want her. There's no doubt about that. I genuinely believe that she also wants me though. I know her better than anyone. I believe she's just scared that we'll fall apart again.

I doubt very much she needs validation from me, she's very beautiful and has always had a lot of male attention. She works as a model in catalogues and advertisements.

If she does need validation from me, then it's either to assuage her guilt, or due to some form of emotional attachment. She's said several things to indicate that she still loves me etc etc.

Guess we'll see if there are any actions to back it up.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I genuinely believe that she also wants me though.


How have her actions demonstrated this sentiment?


----------



## RandomDude

STBX also gets alot of attention where ever she goes, never stopped her from wanting validation from me.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> How have her actions demonstrated this sentiment?


Her actions have somewhat. She spent all day yesterday and the day before texting me. The texts became quite sexual. She has also sent me suggestive photographs, and suggested we meet for coffee.

Whilst they aren't the ultimate "action" of "I want to try and save our M" - they are actions nonetheless outside of the realms of the way you'd be with anyone other than someone you wanted to be with.



> STBX also gets alot of attention where ever she goes, never stopped her from wanting validation from me.


I'm not going to give her any more validation. She has had enough validation from me now. She can come to this decision on her own. There's nothing I can do to change it.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Texting is not an action. It's talking. Words.

WWB, learn to differentiate Hoovering vs. demonstrating real affection and love.

She has done nothing to demonstrate that she wants to R. Is she in IC? Has she gone NC with her FB OM?

Take this recent lesson to heart.

She doesn't want you. She's hoovering. It's disordered behavior. She wants to keep you hanging.

Emotionally mature women do not behave like this.

Here's some hard advice, and I said it earlier in your thread. You are both too young to be married and start a family. Grow up, get your act together, date several women, and then around age 30 think about settling down. 

Go sow some oats


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Texting is not an action. It's talking. Words.
> 
> WWB, learn to differentiate Hoovering vs. demonstrating real affection and love.
> 
> She has done nothing to demonstrate that she wants to R. Is she in IC? Has she gone NC with her FB OM?
> 
> Take this recent lesson to heart.
> 
> She doesn't want you. She's hoovering. It's disordered behavior. She wants to keep you hanging.
> 
> Emotionally mature women do not behave like this.
> 
> Here's some hard advice, and I said it earlier in your thread. You are both too young to be married and start a family. Grow up, get your act together, date several women, and then around age 30 think about settling down.
> 
> Go sow some oats


Texting isn't the action that I'm looking at, it's the frequency of the texts and the content of the texts that I'm looking at, yes just words, but I wouldn't send those words to just anybody, nor so frequently.

I don't know about IC, I don't know about NC with "OM" who may or may not be more than a friend.

Your advice, it's good advice. That is my plan, if there is no shot at R here. I need to explore it for myself, so I can at least feel comfortable with myself that I tried.


----------



## angstire

WWB, there is not an R here. There is an immature girl who's hinting at using her body to get your attention to validate her low self-esteem. Follow 3Strikes advice.

I'm not giving up on you, but I see the same message from you each time. You're not focused on you. You care too much if she wants an R. You're willing to forgive her not doing the work. You talk about if it's meant to be. Nothing is meant to be. Nothing. 

Relationships start and they end. Sometimes they end with the death of one of the parties. But nothing is meant to be.

Go NC, focus on you. You're not doing either of these now.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> WWB, there is not an R here. There is an immature girl who's hinting at using her body to get your attention to validate her low self-esteem. Follow 3Strikes advice.
> 
> I'm not giving up on you, but I see the same message from you each time. You're not focused on you. You care too much if she wants an R. You're willing to forgive her not doing the work. You talk about if it's meant to be. Nothing is meant to be. Nothing.
> 
> Relationships start and they end. Sometimes they end with the death of one of the parties. But nothing is meant to be.
> 
> Go NC, focus on you. You're not doing either of these now.


There may not be an R here, and I'm cool with that. I just don't want to look back a couple years from now and think "I didn't try hard enough, I gave up on my marriage too easily" - that won't help my confidence or self-esteem.

I'm not giving up on me either, don't worry . IF (and that's a big IF) there is an R, there will be some major changes in the dynamic of the relationship. No more doormat, no more codependency. It's time for WWB to wear the trousers. If she doesn't like that, then there will be no R. Those are my terms, my boundaries. 

The relationship has ended, I get that. I'm not trying to resume my old relationship. I really don't want that, it wasn't a good relationship, it wasn't healthy. Neither of us were happy. What I'd like is to start over, something new. I just want to explore if that is a possibility with my wife or not. I'm 90% certain that it won't be.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, I knew today was going to be bad, but I had no idea it would be this bad.

Today is my birthday, the first one I've spent without my wife in 6 years. It feels wrong.

Feeling pretty miserable. Just sat at work, which is also the first time I've ever worked on my birthday. I didn't take the day off this year cause I figured the distraction would help.

I can't even describe how I feel. I really didn't want to get out of bed this morning, could have laid there all day.


----------



## GotLifeBack

After a weekend of no contact, she text me to wish me a happy birthday.

I really wish she hadn't to be honest. Just an extra reminder that I'm not with her today.


----------



## RandomDude

You'll feel better in the morning mate, just let it go.

Personally though, if I was you I would be WAY more hardened by now considering your wife's behaviour. I would be MEH about it all


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> You'll feel better in the morning mate, just let it go.
> 
> Personally though, if I was you I would be WAY more hardened by now considering your wife's behaviour. I would be MEH about it all


Yeah I need to harden up a bit more again, I was doing well, today I just feel so sad .

Just feels wrong not spending the day with her today.


----------



## RandomDude

Next time spend it with friends or even better - a date if you're ready for it


----------



## GotLifeBack

Heh, I should hope I'll be ready for it by then! 

Spending it with friends is difficult, as they all have to work too. 

She's continuing to text me, being all very friendly. It's difficult not to get drawn back in to the web of chatting. She asked for space, that's what she'll get.


----------



## RandomDude

-.-

Time to change your number

What loose ends are left? You have no kids correct?


----------



## GotLifeBack

No loose ends nope, aside from the actual divorce proceedings. 

She still hasn't come to a decision on a possible R, so once she's decided, I'll consider changing my number. 

So difficult to not talk to her today.


----------



## RandomDude

She's already decided from looks of things but doesn't want you to cut loose until she's happy for you to cut loose
AKA - she's stringing you along

What she's doing doesn't even come remotely close to wanting a R


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah, I know I'm probably just seeing it that way because I want one.

The thing is, I had cut loose, but she kind of roped me back in. Well, what I actually mean is I allowed myself to be roped back in.


----------



## RandomDude

Yet the solution is simple:


----------



## GotLifeBack

It is a simple solution, but it's difficult to put in to action.


----------



## RandomDude

Not really

Back when I was a kid I always had a saying -> 
"Dont worry about what may happen, just do what you have to do"

Shut your mind blank and... *snip*!


----------



## GotLifeBack

I am doing what I have to do - If there's any chance of R at all, I need to see how it pans out, as I know that if I don't I'll regret it in the future.

I'd rather spend a couple weeks stuck in limbo, and there be no R and regret that couple weeks, than regret not trying for the rest of my life.


----------



## RandomDude

You've already tried, you've already waited, and she's done nothing to faciliate any shot at reconciliation

So no, you're not doing what you have to do, you're finding excuses to avoid it, feeding off the scraps of every little sign of hope that she gives you to string you along... sorry mate but this is how it looks like from my perspective


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> You've already tried, you've already waited, and she's done nothing to faciliate any shot at reconciliation
> 
> So no, you're not doing what you have to do, you're finding excuses to avoid it, feeding off the scraps of every little sign of hope that she gives you to string you along... sorry mate but this is how it looks like from my perspective


I don't know, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see.



She asks for space, I ask her why she's texting me when she wants space, apparently it's ok to talk to her as long as we don't talk about "us". I just don't understand her, probably never will.


----------



## woosaa

She is just stringing you along there bro.....you need to cut all ties and go completely dark (you are concentrating too much on her instead of yourself) if she wants you back eventually then she will come knocking and her actions will completely change. Until that day then you NEED to block her number and move forward. Limbo is dangerous and will eventually break you down, when you go dark you will show you are strong and she will have to actually do some real change in order to be your Woman/wife. The real pressure will be on her, but most likely she will run from that (which is fine because you will already be a better man).


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> She is just stringing you along there bro.....you need to cut all ties and go completely dark (you are concentrating too much on her instead of yourself) if she wants you back eventually then she will come knocking and her actions will completely change. Until that day then you NEED to block her number and move forward. Limbo is dangerous and will eventually break you down, when you go dark you will show you are strong and she will have to actually do some real change in order to be your Woman/wife. The real pressure will be on her, but most likely she will run from that (which is fine because you will already be a better man).


Yeah, I understand that it's quite likely that she is, that's why I'm not placing too much hope on there being an R. 

I do need to see some actions on her part, because the words are growing tiresome. Not that I don't enjoy talking to her, it just seems overly complicated right now, I mean she either wants me, or she doesn't.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I fully realise that this path in all likelihood leads to more pain.

I know it may seem strange to you all, and that she doesn't deserve a chance, but I'm a romantic at heart, I always used to be, but not so much in the last year of the relationship.


----------



## woosaa

WWB, 

I have to be honest here my man, your making excuses for her and you are certainly holding on to this hope buddy. It is all fine and dandy to be a romantic at heart, I am too (at times), but you need to hardened up right now. Sure you can be romantic and all that in the future if things work out, but she needs to do certain things to even deserve that kind of treatment from you.

You really need to go completely dark on her, block her FB and make her wonder WTH you are doing. Even with that do not do these things for her. I am telling you once you start really taking your energy off that false hope then everything will fall into place. She will try to come back prob more then a few times (most will be false). But you will be in a better state of mind to decipher what is real and also what you expect from her in order to be a couple. 

I understand you are def stronger then you were at first and it is def ok to have a set back here and there, but you need to bust out of this fog right now. You are stronger then this and deserve better. Do not make excuses for her, take that hard step forward to be a new man and if she doesnt catch up....F**k her then


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> WWB,
> 
> I have to be honest here my man, your making excuses for her and you are certainly holding on to this hope buddy. It is all fine and dandy to be a romantic at heart, I am too (at times), but you need to hardened up right now. Sure you can be romantic and all that in the future if things work out, but she needs to do certain things to even deserve that kind of treatment from you.
> 
> You really need to go completely dark on her, block her FB and make her wonder WTH you are doing. Even with that do not do these things for her. I am telling you once you start really taking your energy off that false hope then everything will fall into place. She will try to come back prob more then a few times (most will be false). But you will be in a better state of mind to decipher what is real and also what you expect from her in order to be a couple.
> 
> I understand you are def stronger then you were at first and it is def ok to have a set back here and there, but you need to bust out of this fog right now. You are stronger then this and deserve better. Do not make excuses for her, take that hard step forward to be a new man and if she doesnt catch up....F**k her then


Honesty is always appreciated woosaa .

I've already gone dark on her before, I think that perhaps this is what has led to her "change". I say "change" in inverted commas, because it remains to be seen if it's genuine or not. It could just be the case that she saw her back-up plan slipping away, and freaked out so decided to try reel me back in, and if that's the case, I can't lie, it's working to a degree.

But, I'm under no illusions that an R will happen, and I'm not pushing her for it, it's more a case of leaving that door unlocked. Believe me, I know better than to get my hopes up here. That would be very foolish.


----------



## woosaa

I hear you bud, I will say though that leaving that door open is fine, but the thing is she knows that the door is open. Its ok to leave the option open in your head, but you cannot let her know it is. Show her that it is completely shut, if she has the fortitude to stand up and do what is right then she will. If not then you should know that real change is not going to occur within her and move on. 

I know you understand and do implement everything that is being said, but we all need to hear it again and again, I just feel you are getting caught up somewhat at the moment.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> I hear you bud, I will say though that leaving that door open is fine, but the thing is she knows that the door is open. Its ok to leave the option open in your head, but you cannot let her know it is. Show her that it is completely shut, if she has the fortitude to stand up and do what is right then she will. If not then you should know that real change is not going to occur within her and move on.
> 
> I know you understand and do implement everything that is being said, but we all need to hear it again and again, I just feel you are getting caught up somewhat at the moment.


Yeah, last time I showed her it was completely shut, she kept finding reasons to contact me, or ways to start prying it open again. At the moment she's on the doorstep trying to kick the door down. If she succeeds, will she regret it and run, or will she walk in? Who knows. I'm curious, and I'm not expecting anything.

We do need reminding of things sometimes, it's so difficult to not get caught up when I still love her as much as I do. She has her moments, as we all do, but she can be a genuinely amazing woman to be with.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Her actions have somewhat. She spent all day yesterday and the day before texting me. *The texts became quite sexual. She has also sent me suggestive photographs,* and suggested we meet for coffee.
> 
> Whilst they aren't the ultimate "action" of "I want to try and save our M" - they are actions nonetheless outside of the realms of the way you'd be with anyone other than someone you wanted to be with.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to give her any more validation. She has had enough validation from me now. She can come to this decision on her own. There's nothing I can do to change it.


They are nothing more than a way to string you along. If she wanted you she would come home. She is cake eating, and you are allowing it.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Honesty is always appreciated woosaa .
> 
> I've already gone dark on her before, I think that perhaps this is what has led to her "change". I say "change" in inverted commas, because it remains to be seen if it's genuine or not. It could just be the case that she saw her back-up plan slipping away, and freaked out so decided to try reel me back in, and if that's the case, I can't lie, it's working to a degree.
> 
> But, I'm under no illusions that an R will happen, and I'm not pushing her for it, it's more a case of leaving that door unlocked. Believe me, I know better than to get my hopes up here. That would be very foolish.


I suggest the next couple of times she tries to meet up with you, that you are sorry but have other things going on. When she asks what, let her know you are meeting someone for coffee. The next time let her know you are going out with some friends instead. Show her she is not at the top of the list, right now. It is time for her to meet your needs, not just you meeting hers.


----------



## LongWalk

Are you friends with her on Fakebook?

Do real things that are fun for you and post them.

Go into Indieband concerts. Get to events. Visit friends. Show that your life is going forward and is happy.

Also, would you please consider changing your avatar to something that reflects your maturity and determination? I suggest this so that you gain confidence in yourself. You are going forward and it cannot hurt to reflect that progress.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> They are nothing more than a way to string you along. If she wanted you she would come home. She is cake eating, and you are allowing it.


You're right. I can't argue with that.



> I suggest the next couple of times she tries to meet up with you, that you are sorry but have other things going on. When she asks what, let her know you are meeting someone for coffee. The next time let her know you are going out with some friends instead. Show her she is not at the top of the list, right now. It is time for her to meet your needs, not just you meeting hers.


That's probably a good idea. My needs are unimportant to her, and hers are becoming more unimportant to me at the moment. I notice that she only wants to talk to me when it suits her, which is usually during the day. As soon as the evening arrives and her friends get off work, I get silence. Feeling a bit like I'm being used at her convenience. I'm not ok with that. 



> Are you friends with her on Fakebook?
> 
> Do real things that are fun for you and post them.
> 
> Go into Indieband concerts. Get to events. Visit friends. Show that your life is going forward and is happy.
> 
> Also, would you please consider changing your avatar to something that reflects your maturity and determination? I suggest this so that you gain confidence in yourself. You are going forward and it cannot hurt to reflect that progress.


We aren't friends on FB - but my profile is public so anyone who searches for me can see me.

I have been posting lots of pictures of me doing fun and exciting things lately, but that's not for her, that's for me, to remind myself that I can have a good time without her. 

Regarding the avatar, I will think. I like the one I have.

Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach - A strong guy who doesn't take any sh*t, stands up and fights for what he believes in. He gets knocked down sometimes, but he always gets back up. 

Also, he has a cool sword.


----------



## GotLifeBack

On a side note - I left my cigarettes at home today. First day of quitting


----------



## LongWalk

Good. Cigarettes cause ED. Kurosaki must rise to eternally


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Good. Cigarettes cause ED. Kurosaki must rise to eternally


Yeah, I have some gum to help with cravings. Should be ok, I've done it before .

So far, nothing from STBX today. I'm kind of hoping I don't hear from her. Not in a good frame of mind today, I'm feeling pretty angry.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> So far, nothing from STBX today. I'm kind of hoping I don't hear from her. Not in a good frame of mind today, I'm feeling pretty angry.


In fact, I think if she does send me any messages, I'll just ignore them. She needs to make her damn mind up, before I make it up for her.


----------



## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> In fact, I think if she does send me any messages, I'll just ignore them. *She needs to make her damn mind up, before I make it up for her.*


Haha, now THAT is what I like to hear! :smthumbup:


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Haha, now THAT is what I like to hear! :smthumbup:


Driving me pretty crazy with her indecisiveness. The hot/cold thing is also driving me up the wall.

Not sure how much more I can take!


----------



## ReGroup

I think it's fear that is keeping you from doing what you need to do - I would know.
It took along time for me to overcome it. 

You need to ask yourself, "Who is she to have me waiting on her to make a decision? Why am I putting up with this emotional abuse?"

Why are you giving this woman this type of power over you? You are choosing to let it happen. That's NOT the man that she wants.

It's time for you to start making decisions and sticking to them. 

Become the Man that you were meant to be. 

We know you can do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> I think it's fear that is keeping you from doing what you need to do - I would know.
> It took along time for me to overcome it.
> 
> You need to ask yourself, "Who is she to have me waiting on her to make a decision? Why am I putting up with this emotional abuse?"
> 
> Why are you giving this woman this type of power over you? You are choosing to let it happen. That's NOT the man that she wants.
> 
> It's time for you to start making decisions and sticking to them.
> 
> Become the Man that you were meant to be.
> 
> We know you can do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I honestly don't fear losing her any more. Not one shred. I fear regret. I hate regret.

I have asked myself who she is to have me waiting on her decision, I always get the same answer - *a* woman I love. I value love above all other emotions.

Yes I am choosing to let it happen, I am putting myself through this torture, I know. I probably shouldn't bother and nothing will come of it, but I need to to abate that regret.

I am becoming the man I was always meant to be. I've learned so much. I now have a "code" to live by, which is as follows.

-Be authentic
-Always be honest
-Follow your heart
-Fight for your dreams
-Be a leader
-Be dependable
-Love you friends and family unconditionally
-Always wear the trousers

In addition to this, my low self-esteem is near non-existant, my confidence is on the rise, and I'm really enjoying life again .

I know I can do it too.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

Pe-des-tal. Really. Get rid of it. Loving someone who plays with your emotions (emotional abuse), strings you along, and otherwise snubs you is not healthy. 

You're getting sucked back in by the idealistic version of her...that is of your creation! The fantasy her is not the real her. This is all co-dependent behavior. It's a b!tch! 

Observe her actions. What do you see?

I would recommend another "re-set".

Go 5 days with complete no contact. Ignore all correspondence from her. ALL!

Put the focus entirely back on you. 

Exercise. Hobbies. Out with friends. Reading. Living the independent, single life.

Work on thought control. Mind control. Use your safe place.

Oh, and go get laid. You gotta break the physical connection (which is also in your codependent mind).


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> WWB,
> 
> Pe-des-tal. Really. Get rid of it. Loving someone who plays with your emotions (emotional abuse), strings you along, and otherwise snubs you is not healthy.
> 
> You're getting sucked back in by the idealistic version of her...that is of your creation! The fantasy her is not the real her. This is all co-dependent behavior. It's a b!tch!
> 
> Observe her actions. What do you see?
> 
> I would recommend another "re-set".
> 
> Go 5 days with complete no contact. Ignore all correspondence from her. ALL!
> 
> Put the focus entirely back on you.
> 
> Exercise. Hobbies. Out with friends. Reading. Living the independent, single life.
> 
> Work on thought control. Mind control. Use your safe place.
> 
> Oh, and go get laid. You gotta break the physical connection (which is also in your codependent mind).


I don't choose to love her, I just do. 

The thing is, I don't _want_ my marriage to end. I never did, I'm sure nobody here who was left wanted their marriages to end. She's opening up to the possibility of R - I need to explore that. As difficult as it may be for me to do so, I need to do it. Believe me right now, going NC would be the easy option. I believe in 99% of cases, the easy option isn't the best.

I'm still focusing on my hobbies, still exercising (hitting the gym tonight actually ), still socialising with friends a lot. I haven't given up on myself, and I depend on myself for my happiness. Nobody else.

When I find myself thinking about her too much I do use my safe place, it clears my head when no guitar is at hand .

Believe me, I'd love some sex right about now, it's been far too long, but I'm just not ready to be sexual with someone else right now.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't choose to love her, I just do.


Really?

Explore this idea in IC.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Have you read Lifescript's thread in the Private forum?


----------



## woosaa

WWB, 

You need to make the decision for her bud. You are still giving her this power and you certainly are putting her on a pedestal. Yes maybe she was amazing and all that sh*t prior, but right now she is just playing games. DO NOT let her make the decision. Her only method to get you back is to put in the real work and over time show you she is ready to be a wife. Until then you close that door to her.

There are many benefits by choosing this route. You will be better off, you will attract better woman, and if your wife does come back she will know she needs to shape up. THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION. 

The other day my ex wants back so bad, wants to come see me for my BDAY coming up. Then we get in an argument because I was going to go out over the weekend (she left me 6 months ago). Sh*t she tried to say that she is trying and I would be mad if she went out and talked to guys. haha she is the one that needs to put in the full effort, in the meantime I do what the hell I want when my daughter is not with me. Either way she thinks we are somehow on equal ground because she "sees the light." Again that is all talk from her, I hanged up and havent talked to her since. See you will know when your wife is truly ready, and if not you will push forward. Again take her off that damn pedestal already.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WantWifeBack said:


> Believe me right now, going NC would be the easy option. I believe in 99% of cases, the easy option isn't the best.


You have yet to go complete NC for any respectable length of time. It's not easy. Not at all. :scratchhead:

Every guy who has gone down this road is telling you to go NC. But for some reason, you need to forge your own trail.

It's ok. It's your journey, and perhaps you need to suffer more before you start to grow. I was hard-headed as well.

Good luck, WWB.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Really?
> 
> Explore this idea in IC.


Really. I can talk about this in IC, but I genuine believe I don't choose to love her.

I haven't read Lifescript's thread yet.


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## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> WWB,
> 
> You need to make the decision for her bud. You are still giving her this power and you certainly are putting her on a pedestal. Yes maybe she was amazing and all that sh*t prior, but right now she is just playing games. DO NOT let her make the decision. Her only method to get you back is to put in the real work and over time show you she is ready to be a wife. Until then you close that door to her.


You're probably right woosaa. I'm 99% certain that she is just playing games. But I can't close that door until I'm 100% certain.



> You have yet to go complete NC for any respectable length of time. It's not easy. Not at all.
> 
> Every guy who has gone down this road is telling you to go NC. But for some reason, you need to forge your own trail.
> 
> It's ok. It's your journey, and perhaps you need to suffer more before you start to grow. I was hard-headed as well.
> 
> Good luck, WWB.


The longest period of NC was two weeks, not very long I know. 

I know that everyone is telling me to go NC - but from an R perspective, I'm not sure if that's the best way.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> Really. I can talk about this in IC, but I genuine believe I don't choose to love her.
> 
> I haven't read Lifescript's thread yet.


You are wrong on this point. All of the things that we do to allow someone close enough to us to be in love, and all of importance we place on what they give us are our personal choices.
Yes the emotion of love is not a choice, but all of the things that we allow, and we place importance on, that bring love into our lives are done through our choices.
This is why having her on the pedestal you do is a huge mistake. It gives her the power and the choices. You are deciding to allow her to make the decision of you being important enough to her, for her to work on your R. Instead her actions thus far should be enough to tell you to move on, she only comes around at her convenience and that is not love. She does not love you.
You choose to not place enough importance on the things that show she is not a loving spouse, even though you acknowledge this fact. You choose to give her as much rope as she needs and these are all choices. Do you love her, sure. Is she worthy of that love? Her actions certainly say no, she is no where near as invested in you, as you are in her.


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## woosaa

The only way you will be 100% certain is if she PROVES it to you WWB. Until then make her sweat it out when she thinks she is ready. I am telling you it is going to take her quite a few attempts at first to at least recognize she was wrong. When this FINALLY happens she prob will let her pride get in the way. That is why I gave you the example of mine. Yeah my wifes words are all perfect, but she thinks we can just go back to being in some fantasy together without her righting her wrongs. H*ll no that is not going down like that and I told her. Now she ran away again....and I keep doing my thing.


----------



## woosaa

nogutsnoglory said:


> You are wrong on this point. All of the things that we do to allow someone close enough to us to be in love, and all of importance we place on what they give us are our personal choices.
> Yes the emotion of love is not a choice, but all of the things that we allow, and we place importance on, that bring love into our lives are done through our choices.
> This is why having her on the pedestal you do is a huge mistake. It gives her the power and the choices. You are deciding to allow her to make the decision of you being important enough to her, for her to work on your R. Instead her actions thus far should be enough to tell you to move on, she only comes around at her convenience and that is not love. She does not love you.
> You choose to not place enough importance on the things that show she is not a loving spouse, even though you acknowledge this fact. You choose to give her as much rope as she needs and these are all choices. Do you love her, sure. Is she worthy of that love? Her actions certainly say no, she is no where near as invested in you, as you are in her.


This is def on point. Essentially during my session it was explained that once you unconditionally love yourself you can take or leave those people who do not mesh with you. You do not rely on other people to show you your own worth, you know you are worthy and then become confident in your abilities to realize when you are being taken advantage of. The pain of being left will sting yes....but you have the confidence and fortitude to not stay stuck on being left.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> You are wrong on this point. All of the things that we do to allow someone close enough to us to be in love, and all of importance we place on what they give us are our personal choices.
> Yes the emotion of love is not a choice, but all of the things that we allow, and we place importance on, that bring love into our lives are done through our choices.
> This is why having her on the pedestal you do is a huge mistake. It gives her the power and the choices. You are deciding to allow her to make the decision of you being important enough to her, for her to work on your R. Instead her actions thus far should be enough to tell you to move on, she only comes around at her convenience and that is not love. She does not love you.
> You choose to not place enough importance on the things that show she is not a loving spouse, even though you acknowledge this fact. You choose to give her as much rope as she needs and these are all choices. Do you love her, sure. Is she worthy of that love? Her actions certainly say no, she is no where near as invested in you, as you are in her.


I can understand what you are saying. I know that she is not as invested in me as I am her. I'm the one putting in all of the effort here. I am so tempted to drop it and go NC I truly am, I'm just not sure if I'll be able to live with myself if I do.



> The only way you will be 100% certain is if she PROVES it to you WWB


How can she prove it if I don't give her the chance?


----------



## woosaa

She needs to do some real changing. For me mine needs to be a mother first and show some stability also seek IC. 

Right now she is just stringing you along. Let her go hit rock bottom and when she comes back with some consistency in her actions then you will consider taking her back and putting in the work.


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## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> She needs to do some real changing. For me mine needs to be a mother first and show some stability also seek IC.
> 
> Right now she is just stringing you along. Let her go hit rock bottom and when she comes back with some consistency in her actions then you will consider taking her back and putting in the work.


Mine has agreed to attend MC with me, if she decides she wants to try R. It's a bit weird to be honest. Surely if she can agree to do MC, she can agree to try for an R. She needs to do more work on herself and I will see that she gets some IC if she isn't already.


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## GotLifeBack

You know what, NC it is. 

The more I speak to her, the more my feelings for her intensify.

If she wants me back, well then she'll let me know.


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## ReGroup

You are rocking from side to side.

Stick to the plan no matter what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> Really. I can talk about this in IC, but I genuine believe I don't choose to love her.
> 
> I haven't read Lifescript's thread yet.


We choose who we love. There are aspects we have low control on (love of children due to biology), but we are in control. Any other statement is an abdication of responsibility.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> You are rocking from side to side.
> 
> Stick to the plan no matter what.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll try my best to . 



> We choose who we love. There are aspects we have low control on (love of children due to biology), but we are in control. Any other statement is an abdication of responsibility.


I'm not so sure - I mean, we can choose who we show our love to sure, but can you actually choose who you love on an emotional level?


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> I'll try my best to .
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure - I mean, we can choose who we show our love to sure, but can you actually choose who you love on an emotional level?


Each attempt at NC, has been a failed attempt, but each time you make her do a bit more, then when you show her you want her, she backs off.
This is not because she is afraid of being with you, or trying, this is due to her need to be wanted. Once filled, she feels no need to do anything else.
I suspect she has been given a lot in this life, and is not used to having to hear the word no.
If you want to find out the answers to your questions for her, you need to make her come back to you, and not just for a date, or coffee, or a single romp in the hay. That just, again, will show her she can have you if she wants to. You need to make her understand you demand to be wanted, demand to have a partner, and anything else is less than you deserve and will accept. If she cannot deliver, you have not failed at giving this your best shot, you have nothing to feel regret for. Her actions indicate you are her back up plan, plan B, her safety net. You need to demand to be plan A. You can sleep well if this relationship fails, if you know and realize she could not treat you as her plan A.


----------



## LongWalk

She may be attracted to you at some level and love you at some level but she doesn't see you as a challenge. If there something wrong with her? Probably... almost certainly. You need to reach the stage that you are not longing for her and it triggers her wanting you back, but it doesn't seem like you can keep her entertained. She wants to be single too much.

I wouldn't be surprised if after divorce a couple of years down the road she would want to have sex with you, but still not want to be in a LTR. It also sounds as if your sex ranking can change things. If you are more successful at work, date someone hot, she'll think about you more. But still she sounds like she cannot easily commit to LTR with anyone at this point.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> Each attempt at NC, has been a failed attempt, but each time you make her do a bit more, then when you show her you want her, she backs off.
> This is not because she is afraid of being with you, or trying, this is due to her need to be wanted. Once filled, she feels no need to do anything else.
> I suspect she has been given a lot in this life, and is not used to having to hear the word no.
> If you want to find out the answers to your questions for her, you need to make her come back to you, and not just for a date, or coffee, or a single romp in the hay. That just, again, will show her she can have you if she wants to. You need to make her understand you demand to be wanted, demand to have a partner, and anything else is less than you deserve and will accept. If she cannot deliver, you have not failed at giving this your best shot, you have nothing to feel regret for. Her actions indicate you are her back up plan, plan B, her safety net. You need to demand to be plan A. You can sleep well if this relationship fails, if you know and realize she could not treat you as her plan A.


She isn't used to hearing the word no, you're right.

You say I need to make her come back to me, like that's something I can do - I can't make her do anything. I'm not sure I'd want to even if I could.

I like your reasoning her - perhaps I will be able to forgive myself if I let it go.



> She may be attracted to you at some level and love you at some level but she doesn't see you as a challenge. If there something wrong with her? Probably... almost certainly. You need to reach the stage that you are not longing for her and it triggers her wanting you back, but it doesn't seem like you can keep her entertained. She wants to be single too much.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if after divorce a couple of years down the road she would want to have sex with you, but still not want to be in a LTR. It also sounds as if your sex ranking can change things. If you are more successful at work, date someone hot, she'll think about you more. But still she sounds like she cannot easily commit to LTR with anyone at this point.


I'm not a challenge to her at the moment, if I need to be a challenge for her to be interested, then it won't be a sustainable relationship anyway - as I couldn't always be a challenge. 

I wouldn't be surprised by that either, but by then I will be able to decline.

To be honest, I'm pretty much sick of the games, the maybes and all the uncertainty. It can't continue.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Aaaaaand the results are in!

*Drumroll*

The wife doesn't want to reconcile!

No surprises there. 

Fuel for NC, fuel for moving forward. I'll take it as a gift.

I stated my position to her, I told her that it was all or nothing, I don't think she liked it.


----------



## RandomDude

Congratulations, now you just have to show her your royal flush while she's still holding her meager two pair.

In non-poker terms -> Put your money where your mouth is and cut contact... NOW!


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> She isn't used to hearing the word no, you're right.
> 
> *You say I need to make her come back to me, like that's something I can do - I can't make her do anything. I'm not sure I'd want to even if I could.*
> _
> -It is not about "making her come back" it is about acknowledging to yourself, that she has to come back if you can R. You may not want to R at the time she decides, if she decides, that she wants only you. You IMO are as good an example of a person that needs to implement the 180 process and follow it to the letter. It is designed for you as much as anyone.
> The benefit of the 180, is that as you build your self worth, and stop allowing her opinion of you to matter (takes time), then there will be a day that if she was to come back and commit her heart to you, you would look her in the face and let her know you will think about it. That is the day that the decisions of how you are to be treated, loved, and cherished is your decision to make. You may very well decide that it is too much of a risk to re-commit to the self entitled type that she represents.
> There are beautiful wonderful woman out there, that love to enjoy life for the beauty it holds, that want to make you happy as much as you want to make them happy. There are many unselfish woman and you may decide you would rather give your heart to someone that deserves it, not someone that has rejected it, over and over._
> 
> I like your reasoning her - perhaps I will be able to forgive myself if I let it go.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a challenge to her at the moment, if I need to be a challenge for her to be interested, then it won't be a sustainable relationship anyway - as I couldn't always be a challenge.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised by that either, but by then I will be able to decline.
> 
> To be honest, I'm pretty much sick of the games, the maybes and all the uncertainty. It can't continue.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Congratulations, now you just have to show her your royal flush while she's still holding her meager two pair.
> 
> In non-poker terms -> Put your money where your mouth is and cut contact... NOW!


Indeed, feel like a weight has been lifted somewhat now. It's a pretty good feeling. Shame I can't get this joke of a marriage ended before next May.


----------



## RandomDude

That's not that long away, just keep yourself busy and surrounded by new friends and new potentials. Weekend is coming up too, time to party!!!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> That's not that long away, just keep yourself busy and surrounded by new friends and new potentials. Weekend is coming up too, time to party!!!


I wish - I really wan't to hit a club this weekend but I'm flat broke  my own fault for spending so much on a tattoo session at the start of the month.

I guess it's only 6 months away.... that's not too long really. Still not soon enough! Wish I hadn't married her to be quite honest, but wish in one hand, sh*t in the other and see which fills up first .


----------



## RandomDude

Our mistakes in life teaches us how and why we should do better for the next time mate, now you've learnt.

Just hang out with your mates at least, do something cheap


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Our mistakes in life teaches us how and why we should do better for the next time mate, now you've learnt.
> 
> Just hang out with your mates at least, do something cheap


Yeah, the lessons I have learned throughout all of this really are invaluable. Next time won't be for a long time, but I won't be repeating any mistakes. Nor will I choose to be with someone who is emotionally immature, entitled and selfish. 

I'm sure I'll figure something out, I'm good for Friday, hanging with a few friends and my sister, eating pizza and watching movies, which should be fun! 

I want to go out and find some women to flirt with though.... maybe more . I'm struggling with celibacy at the moment, but I don't want a relationship either. It's tricky, as I'm not a ONS kind of guy.


----------



## LongWalk

Go dark on her and move on. Give her zero chat.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Go dark on her and move on. Give her zero chat.


That's exactly what I'm doing LW . When she told me she didn't want to R. I just calmly said:

"If that's what you want then so be it, we need to discuss divorce options."

She replied saying we'd spoken about it already, which we had briefly. I couldn't be bothered to argue about it so I just responded with.

"Ok, I'll figure it out when it happens. Talk to you next May."

Then deleted all messages from her, blocked her on facebook, and I will delete all of my pictures of her when I get off work.

I'll miss the more saucy pictures .


----------



## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, the lessons I have learned throughout all of this really are invaluable. Next time won't be for a long time, but I won't be repeating any mistakes. Nor will I choose to be with someone who is emotionally immature, entitled and selfish.
> 
> I'm sure I'll figure something out, I'm good for Friday, hanging with a few friends and my sister, eating pizza and watching movies, which should be fun!
> 
> I want to go out and find some women to flirt with though.... maybe more . I'm struggling with celibacy at the moment, but I don't want a relationship either. It's tricky, as I'm not a ONS kind of guy.


Try NSA 
The sex is much better anyways, and normally lasts from 1-3 months at a time, more than enough time to learn each other's bodies and triggers. The only risk is emotional attachment.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Try NSA
> The sex is much better anyways, and normally lasts from 1-3 months at a time, more than enough time to learn each other's bodies and triggers. The only risk is emotional attachment.


Not sure if NSA will work for me to be honest. I find it's not the same without the emotional attachment aspect, but that could just be my limited past experience of NSA .

I'm sure I'll figure something out when the time is right.

The world is full of beautiful women, I need to get out and at least start meeting some!


----------



## RandomDude

No casual sex can compare to love sex true, but it's better than celibacy!

And yup, you do need to get out there, but not to worry, just take your time and have fun. You're free now, embrace it!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> No casual sex can compare to love sex true, but it's better than celibacy!
> 
> And yup, you do need to get out there, but not to worry, just take your time and have fun. You're free now, embrace it!


I've been free for 3 months, but I kept stepping back in to my cage.

As soon as I can afford to, I'm going to hit up a few clubs, dance with some girls and so on .

Looking forward to making an awesome life for myself - I don't have to worry about what the wife might think!


----------



## woosaa

WantWifeBack said:


> I've been free for 3 months, but I kept stepping back in to my cage.
> 
> As soon as I can afford to, I'm going to hit up a few clubs, dance with some girls and so on .
> 
> Looking forward to making an awesome life for myself - I don't have to worry about what the wife might think!


WWB this is advice from my own personal experience, but for me it was good to go out and hook up. ONS may not be for you, but I always look for a female that I am comfortable with. Last time it was fun, but for me that was the extent of it. With that said, it did help me detach from my ex even more (good thing). It is funny because the very next day my ex wanted to get back really bad and my head was just clear. I was confident to tell her come back when I see real action. 

You may think you will feel guilty, but honestly when I do have a ONS or a casual thing going on, both of us are always on the same page. This eases any guilt and if you ultimately are not attracted to that person anymore then move on.

All and all, just try it out.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> WWB this is advice from my own personal experience, but for me it was good to go out and hook up. ONS may not be for you, but I always look for a female that I am comfortable with. Last time it was fun, but for me that was the extent of it. With that said, it did help me detach from my ex even more (good thing). It is funny because the very next day my ex wanted to get back really bad and my head was just clear. I was confident to tell her come back when I see real action.
> 
> You may think you will feel guilty, but honestly when I do have a ONS or a casual thing going on, both of us are always on the same page. This eases any guilt and if you ultimately are not attracted to that person anymore then move on.
> 
> All and all, just try it out.


Perhaps I will, I'm considering it. I guess I'll see how things go - I'm not going to intentionally look for it, but if it happens, it happens.

If my wife ever wants to get back with me, I'll tell her to try again once she's made some changes to herself. I can't tolerate her sh*t any longer. She needs to get it together or get lost.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So I'm feeling pretty angry today, I guess that's normal though.

I spent a lot of time replaying all of the events that have led me from break up to where I sit today. The more I think about it, the more I am certain that there is someone else involved. All the blame-shifting, her ever-changing reasons for not being able to get back together, her complete unwillingness to work on our marriage. Her secrecy and behaviour patterns. All the while we were talking, as soon as her lovely new toxic "friends" got off work, she'd go dead quiet on me. Every. Single. Time. It just doesn't add up any other way.

The fact that she told me she was with someone, and then a few days later took that statement back just proves that she's capable of telling outright and hurtful lies. Regardless of which is true, she lied to me. I can't trust her. I can't believe her in anything. Even if she called me right now and said she wanted to R, I don't think I'd be able to believe her. In fact, I know I wouldn't. 

That girl is an absolute train wreck of a human being, and for the first time I genuinely feel like I'm better off without her. I think this is a good step. I really do feel for the next guy who has to put up with her sh*t. 

I'm feeling strong, feeling like I am now truly done, and that I can look back and say I gave it my all for that girl (I won't call her a woman until she actually becomes one). No regrets now. I did all that I could. 

Onwards and upwards WWB, you have your life back, time to make something of it and continue to be happy.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

WantWifeBack said:


> So I'm feeling pretty angry today, I guess that's normal though.
> 
> I spent a lot of time replaying all of the events that have led me from break up to where I sit today. The more I think about it, the more I am certain that there is someone else involved. All the blame-shifting, her ever-changing reasons for not being able to get back together, her complete unwillingness to work on our marriage. Her secrecy and behaviour patterns. All the while we were talking, as soon as her lovely new toxic "friends" got off work, she'd go dead quiet on me. Every. Single. Time. It just doesn't add up any other way.
> 
> The fact that she told me she was with someone, and then a few days later took that statement back just proves that she's capable of telling outright and hurtful lies. Regardless of which is true, she lied to me. I can't trust her. I can't believe her in anything. Even if she called me right now and said she wanted to R, I don't think I'd be able to believe her. In fact, I know I wouldn't.
> 
> That girl is an absolute train wreck of a human being, and for the first time I genuinely feel like I'm better off without her. I think this is a good step. I really do feel for the next guy who has to put up with her sh*t.
> 
> I'm feeling strong, feeling like I am now truly done, and that I can look back and say I gave it my all for that girl (I won't call her a woman until she actually becomes one). No regrets now. I did all that I could.
> 
> Onwards and upwards WWB, you have your life back, time to make something of it and continue to be happy.


love glasses are much like beer goggles, take them off and the person is not very attractive. Sounds like you are seeing her for what she is, finally. I hope it sticks. Time to D.


----------



## GotLifeBack

nogutsnoglory said:


> love glasses are much like beer goggles, take them off and the person is not very attractive. Sounds like you are seeing her for what she is, finally. I hope it sticks. Time to D.


It will stick, I'm done with her now. I can't keep putting myself through all of this. I can't keep making myself vulnerable to her. 

She is not attractive to me any longer, not emotionally. Her physical attractiveness is diminishing also as I don't like her personality any more. Personality is a big deal for me.

I wish it were time to D... I have to wait until May 2014.


----------



## LongWalk

> The more I think about it, the more I am certain that there is someone else involved. All the blame-shifting, her ever-changing reasons for not being able to get back together, her complete unwillingness to work on our marriage. Her secrecy and behaviour patterns. All the while we were talking, as soon as her lovely new toxic "friends" got off work, she'd go dead quiet on me. Every. Single. Time. It just doesn't add up any other way.


Realizing this is going to set you free. Eliminating her on FB, etc. may have been a good 180 move. Just erase her from you life. You can find some photos of her later for the sake of the historical record of you life.

When friends and family ask why you are divorcing, just say she's a cheater. She did admit it to you once and take it back. Come on, you cannot take such statements as lies because they attract negative judgments.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Realizing this is going to set you free. Eliminating her on FB, etc. may have been a good 180 move. Just erase her from you life. You can find some photos of her later for the sake of the historical record of you life.
> 
> When friends and family ask why you are divorcing, just say she's a cheater. She did admit it to you once and take it back. Come on, you cannot take such statements as lies because they attract negative judgments.


I have blocked her, I have deleted all photos of her, barring a few that I need to wipe from my SD card. 

I feel free from her, I really do. I just can't place any more effort or focus on her after she has treated me so badly. I can't allow myself to for my own self-respect. I don't doubt that she will try to hoover me in again, but it's not going to happen. I'm done with her now, I've given her the benefit of the doubt for long enough, I've given her enough chances. I don't think I could reconcile with her, even if she wanted to. I'm not going to be strung along as her safety net, I'm option A, or I'm not an option at all. She is either my wife, or she is nothing. She chose nothing. I just can't place any more effort or focus on someone who could do the things she has, it's not right.

I don't know if I could call her a cheater, because I have no proof. But as far as I am concerned, she is. Regardless of whether she cheated or not, she betrayed me, she betrayed our marriage, and she has shown her true colours. I don't like them.

I still love the memory of her, how things used to be, how she used to be, but that is gone and is irretrievable. I know this with absolute certainty and clarity.

It's very nearly time to emerge from my tunnel.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Still trekking through my tunnel, the end is getting closer. I find myself doing things differently now. Instead of looking for reasons and ways to communicate with her, I now look for ways to block those paths of communication. I only have two ways that she can get in touch with me now, one I need to leave open so we can discuss divorce in the future. The other, I haven't figured out how to close yet. It's an app called WhatsApp, it's an internet based messenger. The only way I can think at the moment is to uninstall the app, but I keep in contact with a friend on there, maybe I'll move to texts/calls instead.

The thing with WhatsApp is, she can see when I've been online, and vice versa. She uses it very infrequently though but I'm not comfortable with her knowing anything about me, even something as simple and unimportant as that.

I still miss her, and I'm sure I will for a long time. But I feel like I have more resolve to let it go now, more resolve to remain silent, more resolve to move on. More resolve to come out of the other side of this a better, happier man. I feel like I'm already a better man than I was when she left. 

I really enjoy some of the new aspects of my life, such as being able to play my guitar as much and as loud as I like, without worrying about her reaction. On reflection I find it so ridiculous that she used to get jealous of an inanimate object. I remember a year or so in to our relationship, I bought myself a new guitar, and she went and stayed at her mother's the same night, and put something up on Facebook saying she felt like she'd been replaced by my new guitar. Complete madness.

I'm going to make my dreams happen, one of them is to be an awesome guitarist. I'm not quite pro level yet... but I have enough time to practice . I'm actually thinking of putting a video up on YouTube when I am a little more confident. Before I would never have dreamed of it. Some dreams, I have to let go though, my wife, my future with her. I can still have that dream some day, she just can't be a part of it any more.

I enjoy hitting the gym with my friends too, I enjoy working out, it makes me feel good, and I'm seeing improvements in my physical strength already. I'm able to lift more than I could in my first week. I also enjoy the social aspect of it, it's nice to catch up with friends there, and meet new people. Also, it doesn't hurt at all that there are a lot of attractive women there.... on treadmills .

Life is good, life will continue to be good. Without her. I have a lot to look forward to from my life now.


----------



## LongWalk

Awesome. PM the guitar linl when it happens. Jeff Beck fan? Who are you favs?

Tread mill chicks wear tight shorts, why?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Awesome. PM the guitar linl when it happens. Jeff Beck fan? Who are you favs?
> 
> Tread mill chicks wear tight shorts, why?


Heh, I will do, will probably be a while yet, still got a little brushing up to do . I've never actually listened to Jeff Beck. I don't really have any favourites as such, but if pressed I'd say Paul Gilbert, old school Randy Rhoads, Joe Satriani and Jeff Loomis. I tend to just improvise my own stuff, which is really good fun, especially now I have software that provides a dynamic backing track in a certain key/mode.

I don't know why, I do know I like it though. There were some very attractive girls at the gym last night, I didn't have the confidence to talk to any of them though! Maybe one day .


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> The other, I haven't figured out how to close yet. It's an app called WhatsApp, it's an internet based messenger. The only way I can think at the moment is to uninstall the app, but I keep in contact with a friend on there, maybe I'll move to texts/calls instead.
> 
> The thing with WhatsApp is, she can see when I've been online, and vice versa. She uses it very infrequently though but I'm not comfortable with her knowing anything about me, even something as simple and unimportant as that.


Found out how to block her, it's done . One less line of communication open.


----------



## RandomDude

> There were some very attractive girls at the gym last night, I didn't have the confidence to talk to any of them though!


Meh, you just need excuses to talk to them and strike a conversation. Since you're at the gym a good way is just to compliment her while she's taking a break. If all else fails you can also fall back on the "Mistaking them for someone else" approach heh


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Meh, you just need excuses to talk to them and strike a conversation. Since you're at the gym a good way is just to compliment her while she's taking a break. If all else fails you can also fall back on the "Mistaking them for someone else" approach heh


I don't know, whenever I see guys hitting on girls at the gym, I always cringe. I'm not sure why.

I actually considered the "Hey, don't I know you?" approach, immediately thought better of it .

I'm sure I'll figure it out one day. I've never been good at striking up conversations with women, I usually let them start the conversation with me first.


----------



## angstire

I wouldn't play games when striking up the convo. Notice something about her (without staring like a creeper) and go say, "Hi, I'm WWB and I noticed xyz about you. I used to use the machine too or I went to school there too or whatevs." 

Be yourself, be sincere and be confident. Rejection is good, you'll get used to it and it will build confidence too. We all get rejected, so don't go into it afraid of failure, because you increase the chances of failure that way or the chance you won't even go over.

Make it a goal to start with just a hi to a woman next time you're at the gym. Good looking dude, at the gym, smiles and says hi. What's not to like? She'll respond. You don't need digits or to see what her bedroom looks like in the morning on the first go to call it a success.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I wouldn't play games when striking up the convo. Notice something about her (without staring like a creeper) and go say, "Hi, I'm WWB and I noticed xyz about you. I used to use the machine too or I went to school there too or whatevs."
> 
> Be yourself, be sincere and be confident. Rejection is good, you'll get used to it and it will build confidence too. We all get rejected, so don't go into it afraid of failure, because you increase the chances of failure that way or the chance you won't even go over.
> 
> Make it a goal to start with just a hi to a woman next time you're at the gym. Good looking dude, at the gym, smiles and says hi. What's not to like? She'll respond. You don't need digits or to see what her bedroom looks like in the morning on the first go to call it a success.


Yeah true, so next time I see a girl I like the look of on a treadmill, I'll go up to her and say "I noticed you have very tight shorts on, that's why I've been sat on the machine behind you for the last 30 minutes".

Or, more seriously, all good suggestions. I guess I do need to work on my confidence in approaching women, it's just something I've never been good at. I'm not even sure why. Probably life-long low self-esteem has programmed me that way. It can't hurt to say hi though, right?


----------



## angstire

Right, hi is good. How are you today? works too. Just focus on connecting with another person.

The time for commenting on the tight shorts, <Bane voice>, "That comes later."


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> Right, hi is good. How are you today? works too. Just focus on connecting with another person.
> 
> The time for commenting on the tight shorts, <Bane voice>, "That comes later."


Yeah, probably wouldn't open with the shorts comment. I'll give it a shot once I've got my confidence up  

How are you doing anyhow angstire? I haven't seen you posting too much lately.


----------



## FC Dynamite

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah true, so next time I see a girl I like the look of on a treadmill, I'll go up to her and say "I noticed you have very tight shorts on, that's why I've been sat on the machine behind you for the last 30 minutes".
> 
> Or, more seriously, all good suggestions. I guess I do need to work on my confidence in approaching women, it's just something I've never been good at. I'm not even sure why. Probably life-long low self-esteem has programmed me that way. It can't hurt to say hi though, right?


I know you were joking, but never approach a girl when she is working out. Instead, catch her when she's leaving... I know alot of women who have been approached at the gym, and this is the general consensus. Don't be afraid to make some eye contact with them though.


----------



## angstire

FC Dynamite said:


> I know you were joking, but never approach a girl when she is working out. Instead, catch her when she's leaving... I know alot of women who have been approached at the gym, and this is the general consensus. Don't be afraid to make some eye contact with them though.


Or just say hi or how are you as you walk by. Sets it up for chatting later.


----------



## GotLifeBack

FC Dynamite said:


> I know you were joking, but never approach a girl when she is working out. Instead, catch her when she's leaving... I know alot of women who have been approached at the gym, and this is the general consensus. Don't be afraid to make some eye contact with them though.


Yeah I was joking, but the eye contact is a good idea, maybe throw in a sly smile .



> Or just say hi or how are you as you walk by. Sets it up for chatting later.


This is also good! I don't think I'm quite ready yet though, just enjoying going there, chatting with friends and doing my thing .


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> How are you doing anyhow angstire? I haven't seen you posting too much lately.


I'm doing fine. I just don't post as much when I'm busy. My kids come back home tonight and of the last 7 days, I was only home last night. I was out every other night, either with friends (2 nights) or dates (4 nights). It's been a busy week. 

I tend to focus on RL and check in on TAM when I have time. I haven't posted on a new thread for a while, but I still check in on my faves (that's you, etc.).

I thought I had a good exchange on my thread about dating, but haven't had anything new to say. Maybe I start posting an update on Fridays (end of Dad week, beginning of Bad week, etc.)?

I'm pretty well over X2. I miss the facade, but I've embraced that's not who she is. It sucks to have lost her, the family we shared and to realize my pos behaviors. But, if I hadn't gone through this, I'd still be a controlling, angry a-hole to my SO. I don't ever want to be that guy again. I cut bait with a woman who I could see redflags and I'm trying to have fun with dating, without worrying about the end-game. But, I want to be in an LTR again. I like the support and romance and intimacy of that. Dating is ok, but it's a means to end on working on my relationship skills and eventually having just one woman to hang out with. Besides, I've exhausted my dating budget for the month. 

Thanks for asking and my apologies for the long response. Someone called me the Tolstoy of TAM due to the length of my posts. That was sweet and guilty as charged. I like my words.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I'm doing fine. I just don't post as much when I'm busy. My kids come back home tonight and of the last 7 days, I was only home last night. I was out every other night, either with friends (2 nights) or dates (4 nights). It's been a busy week.
> 
> I tend to focus on RL and check in on TAM when I have time. I haven't posted on a new thread for a while, but I still check in on my faves (that's you, etc.).
> 
> I thought I had a good exchange on my thread about dating, but haven't had anything new to say. Maybe I start posting an update on Fridays (end of Dad week, beginning of Bad week, etc.)?
> 
> I'm pretty well over X2. I miss the facade, but I've embraced that's not who she is. It sucks to have lost her, the family we shared and to realize my pos behaviors. But, if I hadn't gone through this, I'd still be a controlling, angry a-hole to my SO. I don't ever want to be that guy again. I cut bait with a woman who I could see redflags and I'm trying to have fun with dating, without worrying about the end-game. But, I want to be in an LTR again. I like the support and romance and intimacy of that. Dating is ok, but it's a means to end on working on my relationship skills and eventually having just one woman to hang out with. Besides, I've exhausted my dating budget for the month.
> 
> Thanks for asking and my apologies for the long response. Someone called me the Tolstoy of TAM due to the length of my posts. That was sweet and guilty as charged. I like my words.


Good to hear you're doing well buddy. 4 dates? I'm envious. I've had zero... but then I haven't really tried to find any! Same woman or 4 different ones? .

I know what you mean about missing the facade. I miss it too, but I'm surprisingly emotionally detached from my STBXW. It's an odd feeling, but I'm glad that I am. When she told me she didn't want to R, I fully expected to feel crushed again. But I didn't. I guess mild disappointment best describes it, and anger, lots of anger.

Yeah, our marriages are over, but we've gained a lot too. We've learned a lot, and are better men for it. I'd like to be in a LTR again one day, I really miss the companionship, and the intimacy. I'm sure I will be again some day 

No need to apologise for the length (that's what she said! - movie reference ).


----------



## angstire

I love a nice movie reference. Good job, that was well-placed. 

Dates: 1 & 2 with woman with GF possibilities, 2nd with woman with GF possibilities, 1st with woman who is excellent to chat with but no physical chemistry so done and 1st with woman I will ask out again. I guess that's 5 dates. Yes, my budget is tapped out for now.


----------



## KnottedStomach

Hi WWB, 

Sounds like you are slowly but surely moving on. I am happy for you. Even though, like me, you still have those bad moments, overall your post have become very upbeat. I am happy that you are on the mend.


----------



## GotLifeBack

angstire said:


> I love a nice movie reference. Good job, that was well-placed.
> 
> Dates: 1 & 2 with woman with GF possibilities, 2nd with woman with GF possibilities, 1st with woman who is excellent to chat with but no physical chemistry so done and 1st with woman I will ask out again. I guess that's 5 dates. Yes, my budget is tapped out for now.


Movie references are always good .

Sounds like you've been keeping busy! I'm kind of looking forward to the dating phase, but also kind of scared of it. It's still a long way away though.

Feeling pretty unwell today so have taken the day off - this might seem strange but usually me and STBXW would take sick days together so we could take care of each other, it feels kind of weird being at home sick on my own!



> Hi WWB,
> 
> Sounds like you are slowly but surely moving on. I am happy for you. Even though, like me, you still have those bad moments, overall your post have become very upbeat. I am happy that you are on the mend.


Hey KS,

I'm getting there I think, slowly but surely. The bad moments are less and less frequent, but still too frequent. I'm glad to be on the mend too, being heartbroken is awful.

Haven't spoken to STBXW in 5 days now, and feeling pretty good about it. I still have my moments of longing for her, of wanting to talk to her and so on, but I distract myself until the feeling passes.


----------



## LongWalk

Chatting up women is all about not creating the a needy vibe. I once went on a cruise and went to the gym every day. There was French Canadian woman on the stationary bike she was in really good shape. I always trained hard and to did she.

I was on the stairs climbing machine. I made sure I did a hard 45 minutes so I look at her.

On maybe the third time we were there (it was a week long cruise) I told I was impressed.

"Pretty good for me my age," she said and smiled.

We chatted and I got good vibe. She was with a bunch colleagues or friends.

I was also chatting with a woman from Minnesota. She was a big University of Minnesota hockey. She and her recent ex had season tickets. I guesss it was going to be complicated. She was definitely not over being dumped. They had no kids. I thought okay, if I listen to her I can get laid. Crass, I know. Oh yeah, she was on the cruise with her mother.

Her mother warned her to be careful of me. It was towards the end of the cruise and the ship director, the guy responsible for running all entertainment dived into a pool with all his clothes on for some event announcement. Afterwards when I was swimming in the pool I found his badge, which had his name and position.

He was a radio personality and real jerk. He asked the old retired couples to talk about the sex lives on stage out of the blue. I decided to put on his badge as a joke. it was pretty funny for most of the personnel because they knew I was just kidding. Although one guy said, "I am sorry, sir, I didn't know." I felt bad about that.

Anyway I met up with woman who had been dumped. I thought I could cheer her up, my chances of scoring would go up. She thought it was funny but in the end all I got was one ****ty kiss.

However, at one point in the I crossed paths with the gym woman and I could tell she wanted to stop and talk. She got swept up by her friends, but realized that was the woman I should have been pursuing. After I split from the depressed dumpee, I wandered around looking for the Canadian woman. Sadly the ships are just too big. Never found her.

But women in gyms can be picked up.


----------



## angstire

Dating is tricky.

Don't jump in until the interest of chatting and having sex outweighs the nervousness of starting up. Once you get in, there's other considerations, obstacles, etc. that pop up that will tell you if you're really ready or not.

I have up and down days on dating. I got rejected this weekend for second date and I was cool with it, because I wasn't as interested in her. I'm finding a harder time being cool with the women I am interested in and things not moving along as quickly as I'd like on an emotional level. In our 30s and 40s, sex seems to move along pretty easily, but the emotional stuff not as much. 

What I've taken out of that is that I do want to replace what I've lost and it's been a good outcome to realize that and force myself to slow down. That said, I had a fourth date with a woman this weekend and I think we click pretty well. Could turn into something exclusive. 

Anyway, hold off on dating until the desire to do it outweighs your nervousness on it. Don't force yourself because you think you need to date to get over the stbxw. Just let it happen when you really want to; that's when you'll know you're ready to try it out. And you can always shut down dating after you start, if it turns out to be more than you bargained for.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Chatting up women is all about not creating the a needy vibe. I once went on a cruise and went to the gym every day. There was French Canadian woman on the stationary bike she was in really good shape. I always trained hard and to did she.
> 
> I was on the stairs climbing machine. I made sure I did a hard 45 minutes so I look at her.
> 
> On maybe the third time we were there (it was a week long cruise) I told I was impressed.
> 
> "Pretty good for me my age," she said and smiled.
> 
> We chatted and I got good vibe. She was with a bunch colleagues or friends.
> 
> I was also chatting with a woman from Minnesota. She was a big University of Minnesota hockey. She and her recent ex had season tickets. I guesss it was going to be complicated. She was definitely not over being dumped. They had no kids. I thought okay, if I listen to her I can get laid. Crass, I know. Oh yeah, she was on the cruise with her mother.
> 
> Her mother warned her to be careful of me. It was towards the end of the cruise and the ship director, the guy responsible for running all entertainment dived into a pool with all his clothes on for some event announcement. Afterwards when I was swimming in the pool I found his badge, which had his name and position.
> 
> He was a radio personality and real jerk. He asked the old retired couples to talk about the sex lives on stage out of the blue. I decided to put on his badge as a joke. it was pretty funny for most of the personnel because they knew I was just kidding. Although one guy said, "I am sorry, sir, I didn't know." I felt bad about that.
> 
> Anyway I met up with woman who had been dumped. I thought I could cheer her up, my chances of scoring would go up. She thought it was funny but in the end all I got was one ****ty kiss.
> 
> However, at one point in the I crossed paths with the gym woman and I could tell she wanted to stop and talk. She got swept up by her friends, but realized that was the woman I should have been pursuing. After I split from the depressed dumpee, I wandered around looking for the Canadian woman. Sadly the ships are just too big. Never found her.
> 
> But women in gyms can be picked up.


Quite a detailed recollection LW  the "one that got away"?

It's a shame you never found her, but your life may have taken an entirely different course if you had, you just don't know. I haven't actually been to the gym for a few days cause I'm still feeling unwell, hoping to go back to work/gym tomorrow.



> Dating is tricky.
> 
> Don't jump in until the interest of chatting and having sex outweighs the nervousness of starting up. Once you get in, there's other considerations, obstacles, etc. that pop up that will tell you if you're really ready or not.
> 
> I have up and down days on dating. I got rejected this weekend for second date and I was cool with it, because I wasn't as interested in her. I'm finding a harder time being cool with the women I am interested in and things not moving along as quickly as I'd like on an emotional level. In our 30s and 40s, sex seems to move along pretty easily, but the emotional stuff not as much.
> 
> What I've taken out of that is that I do want to replace what I've lost and it's been a good outcome to realize that and force myself to slow down. That said, I had a fourth date with a woman this weekend and I think we click pretty well. Could turn into something exclusive.
> 
> Anyway, hold off on dating until the desire to do it outweighs your nervousness on it. Don't force yourself because you think you need to date to get over the stbxw. Just let it happen when you really want to; that's when you'll know you're ready to try it out. And you can always shut down dating after you start, if it turns out to be more than you bargained for.


Dating is tricky, and I think it will be a while before I can seriously "date". I think if I happen to be in a club and pick up a woman, I'd be ok with that. One on one dating or being in any sort of relationship with a woman that isn't my STBXW would just feel wrong right now. I'm sure it won't always be that way though. At least I hope it won't. I miss the companionship of an LTR.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Dating is tricky, and I think it will be a while before I can seriously "date". I think if I happen to be in a club and pick up a woman, I'd be ok with that. One on one dating or being in any sort of relationship with a woman that isn't my STBXW would just feel wrong right now. I'm sure it won't always be that way though. At least I hope it won't. I miss the companionship of an LTR.


WWB, I am no expert, but it sounds like you are over-thinking things a bit. Just go with the flow. It will happen.

Feel better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> WWB, I am no expert, but it sounds like you are over-thinking things a bit. Just go with the flow. It will happen.
> 
> Feel better.


I always over-think everything, so you're probably right. 

Going with the flow sounds like a good plan .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I always over-think everything, so you're probably right.
> 
> Going with the flow sounds like a good plan .


It's scary I know. But can be quite nice to go with the flow.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> It's scary I know. But can be quite nice to go with the flow.


It can be scary yeah, but what are the other options? I can't see any! Nothing in life is certain.

So, full week of NC today. Feeling pretty good considering, but still have my moments of "I really want to talk to her". I hope they'll become less and less as time goes on. 

I honestly never thought I'd be getting a divorce, it's a pretty weird concept to get my head around.

I still have moments where I feel like I'd like to try again, but I just don't see the point really. She's had numerous chances to R. Still, sometimes I feel like giving her another chance. I'm not sure why.


----------



## LongWalk

If she wants R, she knows where to find you.

Work out, enjoy the eye candy. Read books.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> If she wants R, she knows where to find you.
> 
> Work out, enjoy the eye candy. Read books.


Yeah that's very true.

I haven't been to the gym since Saturday as I've been feeling unwell. Hoping I'll be able to go back tomorrow. I miss working out and I do like the eye candy .

Also hoping I'll be able to hit a club this weekend, to boost my confidence and just meet some women. My friend owes me some money, so if he pays me back I'll be able to afford it, if he doesn't, it looks like I'll be having another weekend in!


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Also hoping I'll be able to hit a club this weekend, to boost my confidence and just meet some women. My friend owes me some money, so if he pays me back I'll be able to afford it, if he doesn't, it looks like I'll be having another weekend in!


Well, I spoke to my friends, looks like I'm hitting the club this weekend! 

Should be a fun night!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Finding myself thinking about STBXW today constantly. I really wish I could just stop. 

Having a day full of those "I want to try again" feelings. Is there any way to stop these feelings from occurring? 

I don't want to feel compelled to do anything for her or our M right now. I just want to focus entirely on myself. Any suggestions to make this easier?


----------



## BlueCalcite

WantWifeBack said:


> Having a day full of those "I want to try again" feelings. Is there any way to stop these feelings from occurring?


If you can figure out a way to stop them before they've naturally run their course, write the book and be a rich man some day.


----------



## jeffthechef

To quote Conrad

"Submit to the truth"

If my stbx worked on herself, or put any effort into rebuilding our marriage, we could do it (sound familiar?). But, she doesn't want me anymore, and her feelings will never be what they were.

So be it.

Do you understand WWB? She doesn't want you. She wants pieces of you that fit certain needs and that's it.

The only thing that can make this horrible f!cking ordeal any easier is time, and the commitment to moving on with your life.

You've read all the books on how to deal with this, now read them again. Those philosophies must be refreshed, especially after some backsliding.


----------



## GotLifeBack

BlueCalcite said:


> If you can figure out a way to stop them before they've naturally run their course, write the book and be a rich man some day.


"How to not think about that person that you don't want to think about all the time" by WWB.

It's going to be a best seller.



> To quote Conrad
> 
> "Submit to the truth"
> 
> If my stbx worked on herself, or put any effort into rebuilding our marriage, we could do it (sound familiar?). But, she doesn't want me anymore, and her feelings will never be what they were.
> 
> So be it.
> 
> Do you understand WWB? She doesn't want you. She wants pieces of you that fit certain needs and that's it.
> 
> The only thing that can make this horrible f!cking ordeal any easier is time, and the commitment to moving on with your life.
> 
> You've read all the books on how to deal with this, now read them again. Those philosophies must be refreshed, especially after some backsliding.


You're right Jeff, thank you, this is exactly what I needed.

Yesterday morning I had a moment of weakness and I sent STBXW a message. I immediately regretted it afterwards and tried to forget about it, felt ashamed. She responded shortly afterwards being quite grouchy with me, and saying that she was very unwell and didn't want to talk to me.

Now, in the past, I would have given sympathy, support, tried to make her laugh and smile, and tried to keep her from getting bored. Even since the separation, when she has been unwell, I have done this for her.

This time, I just simply didn't respond with anything other than a "Fair enough", and left it at that.

About 12 hours later, she sent me another message, apologising for being grouchy, and telling me that she's so unwell she's in hospital. I think this was fishing for the reaction that I didn't give her in the first instance. I ignored it completely and deleted the message.

Anyway, at this point, I realised just how emotionally detached from her I am now. It was both a good realisation and a sad one. I really wanted to care that she's so unwell and that she's in hospital, but I just couldn't. I even tried to care, I tried to make myself feel like I wanted to help her, but I couldn't, I just kept shrugging it off. It's not my problem any more, and I actually genuinely felt it, rather than reminding myself of that when emotionally I'm screaming at myself to do something about it.

I guess this is "being still"?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Oh and by the by, she has Glandular Fever, A.K.A Mono, A.K.A The Kissing Disease. 

Its possible she could have contracted it through an innocent means, but I won't rule out the obvious infection method of swapping bodily fluids.

Also, she'll carry it for the rest of her life, and could very well infect people years from now. Glad I won't be one of them .


----------



## GotLifeBack

> I won't rule out the obvious infection method of swapping bodily fluids.


Especially when studies show that in 85-90% of cases, it's spread by sexual intercourse/kissing.

I'm not a believer in karma, but she sure has had some very bad luck since she left. To list a few things:

- She was told that by next March, it's very likely she'll no longer have a job.

- Her mother was hospitalised and had some emergency surgery. There were complications and she was re-admitted.

- Her grandfather was diagnosed with leukemia. 

- She had some serious financial struggles at points.

- Now she has Mono, and I'm 99% sure her employers won't be paying her for her absence.

And what's happened to me?

- I've made new friends

- I've reconnected with old friends

- I'm closer with my family

- I've been getting some female attention

- I've rediscovered how much I love playing my guitar, and have set myself a goal of becoming a guitar teacher. 

- I've worked on myself, and am in a much better head space now.

- I've started learning to drive, which is going really well.

- My self confidence is ever increasing.

WWB 1 - STBXW 0


----------



## RandomDude

Well, considering she's now diseased and infectious, you have to be rather semi-suicidal to want back with her! lol


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Well, considering she's now diseased and infectious, you have to be rather semi-suicidal to want back with her! lol


Haha yep. This really is too hilarious.

Although mono isn't life-threatening, it's certainly something I don't want to experience, or carry for the rest of my life.

When I discovered how it's transmitted, I thought I'd be sad. I'm not though, I find the irony too funny.


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## Honorbound

WWB, take this a sign that you were probably right about the PA and her lying about it all of this time. Sometimes Karma is a little quicker for some folks than it is others.

As for: 


BlueCalcite said:


> If you can figure out a way to stop them before they've naturally run their course, write the book and be a rich man some day.


I've written one. It's a thick book. When you open it up there's a hammer inside with the instructions for whacking yourself in the skull every time you get to feeling bad. :scratchhead:

I haven't sold very many for some reason....


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> WWB, take this a sign that you were probably right about the PA and her lying about it all of this time. Sometimes Karma is a little quicker for some folks than it is others.
> 
> As for:
> 
> 
> I've written one. It's a thick book. When you open it up there's a hammer inside with the instructions for whacking yourself in the skull every time you get to feeling bad. :scratchhead:
> 
> I haven't sold very many for some reason....


It doesn't confirm a PA as such, although technically she's still my wife, then again I've kissed two women since she left so did I have a PA? I don't know.

But, yes, whilst I'm not a believer of Karma, I do think that she brought this on herself. I always had a thought in the back of my mind, that she'd either fall pregnant, or contract a disease shortly after leaving. I'm not sure why, but I guess I was right.

It's possible that she caught it through sharing food or drink, or utensils, or a straw etc, but very unlikely. Either way, she's screwed and stuck carrying it for life, even after the symptoms clear up.

I have a similar book. It's not very thick. It reads:

"Walk towards and face wall. Bash head against wall until either

a.) you pass out
b.) you stop thinking about her.

In case of a.) repeat process after waking up."


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> It doesn't confirm a PA as such, although technically she's still my wife, then again I've kissed two women since she left so did I have a PA? I don't know.
> 
> But, yes, whilst I'm not a believer of Karma, I do think that she brought this on herself. I always had a thought in the back of my mind, that she'd either fall pregnant, or contract a disease shortly after leaving. I'm not sure why, but I guess I was right.
> 
> It's possible that she caught it through sharing food or drink, or utensils, or a straw etc, but very unlikely. Either way, she's screwed and stuck carrying it for life, even after the symptoms clear up.
> 
> I have a similar book. It's not very thick. It reads:
> 
> "Walk towards and face wall. Bash head against wall until either
> 
> a.) you pass out
> b.) you stop thinking about her.
> 
> In case of a.) repeat process after waking up."


I know it doesn't confirm it, as such, any more than I can confirm mine has... but we both have to acknowledge that the end-result is indistinguishable from if they had.

even if you don't believe in karma, you have to believe in physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The whole universe works on that principal - from the movement of galaxies to the interaction of atoms. What makes you think human emotional interactions don't?

Hahah. I had that same book at one time, but it was causing h*ll with all of the wall patching going on.


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I know it doesn't confirm it, as such, any more than I can confirm mine has... but we both have to acknowledge that the end-result is indistinguishable from if they had.
> 
> even if you don't believe in karma, you have to believe in physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The whole universe works on that principal - from the movement of galaxies to the interaction of atoms. What makes you think human emotional interactions don't?
> 
> Hahah. I had that same book at one time, but it was causing h*ll with all of the wall patching going on.


Yep, the end result is that she still isn't with me, so it makes little difference.

Physics I'm down with, for sure.

Maybe this is her opposite reaction, who knows.

Been chuckling to myself about this all morning.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Still chuckling away to myself, the irony is just too funny.

Stupid stupid girl.


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## CrazyBeautiful1

Ahh WWB.. Way to go for not getting sucked into her pity party. Her follow up text about being sick was obviously just seeking some type of reaction, and comfort. Even though you "mean nothing" to her, and she has no intent on fixing your M, she still wants you to feel bad for her.

And ew, she deserves the kissing disease! Just one more reason why you're much better off without her 

You're so much better than this, and her.. And sadly, even with all of that horrible stuff that's happened to her since leaving, she still hasn't woken up and realized that she's given up her number one supporter! Kudos to you for maintaining your distance 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Ahh WWB.. Way to go for not getting sucked into her pity party. Her follow up text about being sick was obviously just seeking some type of reaction, and comfort. Even though you "mean nothing" to her, and she has no intent on fixing your M, she still wants you to feel bad for her.
> 
> And ew, she deserves the kissing disease! Just one more reason why you're much better off without her
> 
> You're so much better than this, and her.. And sadly, even with all of that horrible stuff that's happened to her since leaving, she still hasn't woken up and realized that she's given up her number one supporter! Kudos to you for maintaining your distance
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It felt both good and bad to not care, I felt good because it's clearly progress and a sign that I'm getting over it. I felt bad because part of me still doesn't want to get over it, I felt like I should have cared. But you're right, she's undeserving. She didn't get any reaction from me about her being hospitalised, I didn't even respond, I just deleted the message. Someone tried to tell me that perhaps she wanted me to go visit, I laughed.

I don't wish her any harm, illness or problems in her life, but they seem to be prevalent at the moment. I think now it would take nothing short of a miracle to bring us back together. I am a lot happier without her I think. I enjoy my life a lot more, I'm more socially active, I enjoy my hobbies a lot more. There was a time when I wanted to explore the possibility if I could keep that happiness and be with her. She's no longer a priority in my life though.

I wouldn't say that I'm better than her, but I'm starting to believe that I deserve better than her. I don't think she'll ever have that "Eureka" moment, but whether she does or not, I know I'll continue to be mostly happy. I still have my dark times, but I imagine I will for a long time to come yet. 

It feels good maintaining my distance. It makes me feel strong. I'm actually pretty proud of myself for coming along as far as I have in the last two and a half months. I didn't realise just how strong I can be.

I always thought that if my wife ever left me, I'd be a mess for a very long time, I'd give up on life completely. In reality, I feel like I'm actually getting my life back now.


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## oviid

That disconnect feeling is weird isn't it. You spend so much time missing them and wishing things were better then one day it's different. You just don't miss them as much and you feel like things are actually better without them but there's something in that too that makes you sad. To think that this person you loved so much is no longer that important in your life and to realize that.

My stbx went away for most of the week and I slept better at night, felt really good for those few days and didn't miss her the way I thought I would. That was a good feeling but I also felt sad that I didn't miss her the way I used to.


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## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> That disconnect feeling is weird isn't it. You spend so much time missing them and wishing things were better then one day it's different. You just don't miss them as much and you feel like things are actually better without them but there's something in that too that makes you sad. To think that this person you loved so much is no longer that important in your life and to realize that.
> 
> My stbx went away for most of the week and I slept better at night, felt really good for those few days and didn't miss her the way I thought I would. That was a good feeling but I also felt sad that I didn't miss her the way I used to.


It's very weird. I know it's good for me, but at the same time, I feel disappointed in myself. I know I shouldn't, but I'm disappointed that my love for the woman I thought I'd spend my life with is fading so quickly. But, when I think that she has driven me to this with her hurtful actions, cake eating, stringing me along and such, I know that it's her I should be disappointed in, and I am disappointed in her. She was a wonderful person most of the time. We could have had a bright and beautiful future. Now she's thrown it all away and seems to be on a self-destructive path. I don't like the thought of her going down that path, but it's no longer my responsibility to ensure that she doesn't.

I tend to sleep better and be less stressed when me and STBXW aren't in contact. But I completely know what you mean about feeling sad too. I'm sad because I genuinely believed this impossible, I genuinely believed that I would always love her and care about her, but right now, I don't. I may have times again in the coming months where I do, and I'm ready for that to happen if it does. 

I do have moments of wanting to ask how she's doing, or moments that I want to send her a message wishing her well, but they pass. I just have to resist the urge.


----------



## BlueCalcite

Honorbound said:


> I've written one. It's a thick book. When you open it up there's a hammer inside with the instructions for whacking yourself in the skull every time you get to feeling bad. :scratchhead:
> 
> I haven't sold very many for some reason....


That sounds like the book Andy Dufresne smuggled into Shawshank. It worked for him. Maybe we all need one just like it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, I had a pretty mixed weekend. Saturday night out clubbing was brilliant, I had a really good time. So many women . Had a few nice confidence boosts, several dances with several girls, several compliments too. According to my friend I also made out with a woman, but I think he's mistaken as I literally have zero memory of that happening. None. He must have seen someone else and thought it was me.

I did get a little bit too drunk though, and after I left the club, I text my STBXW. Drunk texting is never a good idea. She wasn't happy cause I basically called her a skank. Oops.

Anyway, while out, I managed to lose my ID, my house keys and my ATM card. I called the bank up on Sunday to order a new card, and they had the complete wrong address on my account. The address was somewhere in the town where STBXW's FB OM lives. I find myself wondering if when she changed her address at the bank, they messed up and put her address on my account, which is what used to be our joint account, which would mean she's been lying to me about where she is living. When we went to the bank together and split our account, she asked me to leave the room while she changed her address. That would explain the secrecy too.

I'll be hurt if I find out she has been lying to me, but it would also make things easier for me. I'll be so angry.

Also, what this has made me realise is that I really don't trust her anymore, not a word she says.


----------



## LongWalk

So she left you for another man. Skank? Is she promiscuious? Certainly dishonest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> So she left you for another man. Skank? Is she promiscuious? Certainly dishonest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no proof, but it's the only way I can see that an incorrect address got put on to my bank account. It seems to be quite a coincidence that of all the towns, it happens to be the one her FB OM lives in. She never was promiscuous, but she does flirt a lot when she's had a drink. I woke up to a nice message from her the following day saying that when she's recovered she's going to "become the wh*re that I think she is". So incredibly immature, but that's quite hypocritical of me seeing as I text her. 

She certainly is dishonest, which again is new, or is it? I guess I'll never know!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, not sure if it was a good idea or not but I confronted STBXW. She obviously says she isn't lying and she has no reason to lie. Sadly I can't believe that because I just don't trust her. I guess that's kind of new behaviour for me though, previously I always avoided confrontation.

It's so f*cked when I think about how we used to be, and how we are now. So cold with each other, so distant and withdrawn. When I called the bank yesterday I needed to dig through some paperwork to find my account number. While doing so I found an old Valentines day card she sent me. Inside she'd written things like "I'll love you forever", "I'm so happy to have you in my life", "I want you to be mine forever" etc.

I probably shouldn't have read it but it was there and I was feeling pretty low. Nevermind.


----------



## RandomDude

> I did get a little bit too drunk though, and after I left the club, I text my STBXW. Drunk texting is never a good idea. She wasn't happy cause I basically called her a skank. Oops.


:rofl:

Oops? Nah more like WELL DONE lol!



> "I'll love you forever", "I'm so happy to have you in my life", "I want you to be mine forever"


Pffft, my wife said the same BS to me as I've said it to her, it's meaningless in the end.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Oops? Nah more like WELL DONE lol!
> 
> 
> 
> Pffft, my wife said the same BS to me as I've said it to her, it's meaningless in the end.


I feel bad about it. I don't want to go down that route. She keeps saying she's going to block my number, but hasn't yet. I've even told her how to do it.

Yeah, it is meaningless. Just words. At the time it felt great reading those words, but they were lies.


----------



## RandomDude

What happened to NC anyway?


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> What happened to NC anyway?


Beer happened .

Then I found out about the address thing and wanted answers, which I still haven't got. The last thing she said was that she's been the mature one in this whole break up process . Massive Narcissistic Personality Disorder red flag.

We've both been really bad throughout all of this, but at least I can accept my wrongdoings and accept responsibility for them.

She has so much growing up to do.


----------



## RandomDude

Ah! Beer! The cause and solution to all of life's problems!

Well just cancel the new card and get it sent to your proper address. The good thing about this detour is that you found out about more lies in regards to her OM. Some higher power out there is looking out for you mate, supporting you and giving you reasons to be content with your decision to move on.

Back to NC!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Ah! Beer! The cause and solution to all of life's problems!
> 
> Well just cancel the new card and get it sent to your proper address. The good thing about this detour is that you found out about more lies in regards to her OM. Some higher power out there is looking out for you mate, supporting you and giving you reasons to be content with your decision to move on.
> 
> Back to NC!


Indeed, I look forward to my next encounter with beer on Saturday . Hitting a club... again! 

Yeah I've sorted it all out with the bank now, thankfully.

I told STBXW that she wasn't mature at all and that we're both as bad as each other. She responded with a very nice very long message telling me that I'm a POS, and that the only reason we reconciled 3 years ago was because she felt guilty, oh and that I'll never become the man I want to be. 

Also, she apparently only lied and deceived to protect herself from me (wtf???) and she only led me on because she felt guilty. Weird. I wasn't aware that I could control her behaviour or actions. Ah well, doesn't matter now. Think I'll be blocking her number with the phone company later, that way I can't easily unblock it.


----------



## RandomDude

:rofl:

If I was you I would have been laughing at her face! lol

Aye, you don't need her BS in your life mate, unless you enjoy the entertainment!


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## helolover

WantWifeBack, 

What helped me forward is that I took all of those cards, letters, pics and bagged them up. No more looking at them for clues, no more wanting to show them to her to prove she loved me.... No more crap. Then, when I was sure I was done with the relationship : right into the trash bin. I walked down to the river next to my house and plunked by wedding ring in too. No theatrics, no public displays. Just me moving forward. 

Your wife is a liar. When the spouse is involved with another person, they always lie. They lie about ridiculous stuff they don't even need to lie about. 

Keep the high ground, WWB. I wish you could change your avatar name to DontNeedWifeBack. You don't. 

Give her room to do her thing. You're not in control of anything except for how you handle things. 

Here for you.

HL


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> :rofl:
> 
> If I was you I would have been laughing at her face! lol
> 
> Aye, you don't need her BS in your life mate, unless you enjoy the entertainment!


She's literally gone bat sh*t crazy. I think she needs some psychiatric help.

Nah I don't need it, nor do I want it. 

She knows how to get a rise out of me though, I told her that she was an emotionally abusive narcissist and the leaving me was the best gift she ever gave me.



> WantWifeBack,
> 
> What helped me forward is that I took all of those cards, letters, pics and bagged them up. No more looking at them for clues, no more wanting to show them to her to prove she loved me.... No more crap. Then, when I was sure I was done with the relationship : right into the trash bin. I walked down to the river next to my house and plunked by wedding ring in too. No theatrics, no public displays. Just me moving forward.
> 
> Your wife is a liar. When the spouse is involved with another person, they always lie. They lie about ridiculous stuff they don't even need to lie about.
> 
> Keep the high ground, WWB. I wish you could change your avatar name to DontNeedWifeBack. You don't.
> 
> Give her room to do her thing. You're not in control of anything except for how you handle things.
> 
> Here for you.
> 
> HL


Thanks HL .

At the moment all of my important documents and keepsakes are in a box all jumbled up, at some point I'll sort through it and throw away the reminders. The ring... I'm not sure what I'll do with that yet but I'll figure it out in time!

She is a liar, she's malicious, vindictive and intentionally hurtful too.

I wish I could change my name too haha, when I signed up here I was still in shock & grief. Now I see her for what she is, I find myself wondering why it wasn't me that left her, and a long time ago too.

I'll give her the rest of her life to do her thing .


----------



## RandomDude

Just re-register, or ask a mod if possible


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Just re-register, or ask a mod if possible


Yeah, that's a good plan actually, I'll contact a mod!

Lmao, STBXW says I could never handle the fact that she was out of my league. Trying to damage my new found confidence. Won't work. Can't wait to block her number on my lunch break.


----------



## RandomDude

Yes, because a disease-ridden lying abusive immature cheating hoe is so desirable :rofl:


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Yes, because a disease-ridden lying abusive immature cheating hoe is so desirable :rofl:


Haha, yeah.

She knows I have low self-esteem, or at least I did, she's trying to hurt my confidence. But I think of all the women I danced with on Saturday and it's all good .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Went to the phone shop, apparently they can't block numbers but pointed me to an app that can.

Ironically STBXW is being all nice and friendly now. I have the app but haven't blocked her yet, building up the strength.


----------



## RandomDude

> Ironically STBXW is being all nice and friendly now.


-.-

Read up


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> -.-
> 
> Read up


Or, re-read the entire thread. That would probably help .

I always knew that the last avenue of contact would be the hardest one to close.


----------



## Brokenman85

Hey WWB, thought I would check in with you to see how you are doing since it has been awhile since I've been on. Glad to see you are holding up pretty well. So you think there is another man? I wouldn't be surprised really. I always thought it was extremely likely. It's just the cheaters script. Almost every story of a wife walking out on this site is almost the exact same. It's pretty laughable actually. You really need to stop contact with her. I know it's hard, but you have to. The woman you know and love is dead. We don't want to believe it but it's true. She isn't a good person. Try to remember that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Hey WWB, thought I would check in with you to see how you are doing since it has been awhile since I've been on. Glad to see you are holding up pretty well. So you think there is another man? I wouldn't be surprised really. I always thought it was extremely likely. It's just the cheaters script. Almost every story of a wife walking out on this site is almost the exact same. It's pretty laughable actually. You really need to stop contact with her. I know it's hard, but you have to. The woman you know and love is dead. We don't want to believe it but it's true. She isn't a good person. Try to remember that.


Hey BM, how are you doing? 

I'm holding up pretty well, I've had a few slips but generally I'm doing ok. Of course she has said there is no OM, but she would say that. I'm beyond caring if there is or isn't now. It doesn't change anything, besides giving me one more reason to be angry, and I'm tired of being angry!

I have stopped contact with her, I blocked her number yesterday. When she started being nice again, I told her I was going to block her number, she asked me for one last day of conversation. It was the wrong choice, but I gave her that. In hindsight I should have just blocked her straight away, but it was difficult to not take that last day. I guess it made it harder to cut her off though.

But, on the flip-side, she said some of the most hurtful things she has ever said to me yesterday, and when I think about those, it's easier. She said that she didn't mean them and only said them in anger, but I think people always mean what they say in anger.

She isn't a good person, and she knows it. She told me yesterday that she knows she isn't a good person, and that she knows how wrongly she's treated me, and apologised. Whilst it's too late now for any sort of R, it was kind of nice to get that apology.

The woman I knew is gone, but there were times when I still got glimpses of that woman, those were the times that I wanted to try for R.

Anyway, no more glimpses, no more thoughts of R, no more contact. It's all done and I'm looking forward to living my awesome life.... and being a massive flirt whilst I'm out clubbing .

That's something I never really got to experience in my youth, and nor did she as we got together when we were very young.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Quite pleasantly surprised that today I haven't thought about my STBXW too much. I've mostly been thinking about how much I enjoyed Saturday night, and how much I'm looking forward to this coming Saturday night (clubbing again..... I'm turning in to a bit of a party animal!). I'm sure that eventually I'll feel tired of feeling attractive to women though, but at the moment, it's great for my confidence.

It's strange but I'm actually happy. The happiest I've been in a long time, and I've learned to be happy alone. I've made so many new happy memories since STBXW left, and I think they're starting to outweigh the happy memories I have with her.


----------



## helolover

WWB, have fun clubbing and flirting. Don't drink too much (I know I'm a party pooper.....) as you don't want to replace hurt with drink. It gets in the way of you improving your health/physique. Which btw, if you're not doing, you are limiting your prospects.

Also, i hope you walk away spouse sees you flirting and clubbing. It shows you have options. A confident man with choices and options is a powerful thing.....(and attractive to women).


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> WWB, have fun clubbing and flirting. Don't drink too much (I know I'm a party pooper.....) as you don't want to replace hurt with drink. It gets in the way of you improving your health/physique. Which btw, if you're not doing, you are limiting your prospects.
> 
> Also, i hope you walk away spouse sees you flirting and clubbing. It shows you have options. A confident man with choices and options is a powerful thing.....(and attractive to women).


I always do have lots of fun when I hit the club  I also flirt so badly. I'm usually quite shy and reserved, but after a few drinks, I just can't help myself.

On Saturday, I saw this really hot blonde, she had some tattoos that caught my eye. I walked right up to her whilst some guy was hitting on her, made eye contact and smiled, she smiled back so I moved in to speak. I said five words to her ("Your tattoos are f*cking sexy") and she ditched the other guy and danced with me. After dancing we talked a bit, I gave her my name, and she gave me hers (I don't remember it though!). The other guy looked so p*ssed off. He was staring at me, I just stared back until he left. Anyway, shortly after that me and my friends moved on to a different establishment .

We went in to a pub for a few drinks before hitting the bars & clubs. Before I'd even got in to the first pub, an attractive girl told me that I was "gorgeous". I just smiled, said thanks, and kept on walking past her.

Those were just two of several women that flirted with me & danced with me on Saturday. It was a good night. I never go out seeking to "hook up", I go out to have a good time, the flirting and the dancing seems to go hand in hand with that though.

I think if women see that you're confident and fun, they're instantly more attracted to you. I also like to play a little aloof. I never ask for numbers, or buy drinks for them, I flirt a bit, or have one dance, then move on.

Anyway, I'm insanely confident after a few drinks, I wish I could have that confidence whilst entirely sober .

I don't drink to mask my pain, if I'm honest, the hurt isn't near as bad as it used to be. I drink to feel relaxed and more confident in myself.


----------



## RandomDude

Man, you're making me wanna go back on the booze lol

Glad to see you're finally moving on though, you know for sure now that you deserve better, and can achieve MUCH better


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Man, you're making me wanna go back on the booze lol
> 
> Glad to see you're finally moving on though, you know for sure now that you deserve better, and can achieve MUCH better


Haha, drink is good . It was a pretty wild night. I'm going out with a guy I've never met this weekend, a friend of my sister. He's told me that he's going to "make sure I wake up next to some chick I don't even know".... could be interesting. I'm not sure how he'll manage that if I don't allow it .

After I have a few I just don't care what people think of me. No social inhibitions = extreme confidence.


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## Honorbound

I am exactly the same way WWB. Strictly social drinker, but once I have a few I _know_ I can more than hold my own with anybody there - and it shows. I restrict myself to just enough to maintain that and the self-consciousness that I've been experiencing since the STBX left melts away.

I can't dance for crap (unless it's slow), but I have no problem talking to women and getting them to smile and laugh once the self-consciousness goes away. I've been different places all weekend, and - even though I start out sitting by myself at each place - by the end of the night I had a table full of women hanging out and flirting with me at each place. I wasn't interested in any of them other than for friendly conversation, but until that gavel ends my vows for me that is the way I choose to keep things (for my own sense of honor, not for anyone else). I still have some downs - usually when home alone in an empty house - but going out has done wonders for improving my outlook on things.

I know you've been in the same boat. When they left we took it as there must be something wrong/ugly/undesirable/repellant about us... now we know for a fact it isn't _us_ that has the major issues. :smthumbup:

It's the lesson I learned a long time ago... confidence is the key to _everything_. I hate that I lost that for even a minute.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Honorbound said:


> I know you've been in the same boat. When they left we took it as there must be something wrong/ugly/undesirable/repellant about us... now we know for a fact it isn't _us_ that has the major issues. :smthumbup:


From what I can tell, there is NOTHING wrong with either one of you. So glad you both are going out and having a good time :smthumbup: Nothing wrong with getting ego boosts from pretty ladies in my opinion


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## Brokenman85

Well WWB, I'm glad to know you are getting attention from women while you're out. It sounds like you are a pretty good looking guy. It reinforces my point on a different thread that once a women detaches emotionally from someone, they typically lose physical attraction as well. I struggled with this at first because it made me feel bad about myself and started being really critical over my appearance. I'm now starting to remember that I'm good looking guy again. It takes awhile to get confidence back.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I am exactly the same way WWB. Strictly social drinker, but once I have a few I _know_ I can more than hold my own with anybody there - and it shows. I restrict myself to just enough to maintain that and the self-consciousness that I've been experiencing since the STBX left melts away.
> 
> I can't dance for crap (unless it's slow), but I have no problem talking to women and getting them to smile and laugh once the self-consciousness goes away. I've been different places all weekend, and - even though I start out sitting by myself at each place - by the end of the night I had a table full of women hanging out and flirting with me at each place. I wasn't interested in any of them other than for friendly conversation, but until that gavel ends my vows for me that is the way I choose to keep things (for my own sense of honor, not for anyone else). I still have some downs - usually when home alone in an empty house - but going out has done wonders for improving my outlook on things.
> 
> I know you've been in the same boat. When they left we took it as there must be something wrong/ugly/undesirable/repellant about us... now we know for a fact it isn't _us_ that has the major issues. :smthumbup:
> 
> It's the lesson I learned a long time ago... confidence is the key to _everything_. I hate that I lost that for even a minute.


My entire life I've suffered with poor self-esteem, I feel so stupid for not realising sooner that I'm actually not too bad a person. I always felt ugly, boring, undesirable and like a waste of space, but I know I'm none of those things now. I guess the time to myself to really evaluate myself and my life has done me good!

I'm sure one day I'll get to the point where I can be more confident whilst sober, especially if my self-esteem keeps rising the way it is at the moment.

I can't dance either, but I have fun and I don't care if people ridicule my dancing. Sure, I can't dance, people might laugh at me, but if I were to give them a guitar, I'd doubt they'd be able to wail out a killer blues solo! My turn to laugh . I always focused on what I couldn't do, what my failings were. Now I appreciate my good points and my talents and it does wonders for my happiness.

The way you are describing that you felt, I've felt that way my whole life, and add undeserving to the list. When my wife left, I really did feel the lowest I have ever felt in my life. I'm just glad I realised that I had no reason to feel so low. Sure she doesn't love me, she doesn't want to spend time with me and so on. But lots of people do, my friends, my family. People like me, I have a good sense of humour and a good personality!

Confidence truly is key, it's just a case of knowing exactly how confident to be in certain situations, which is what I am now learning.


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## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> From what I can tell, there is NOTHING wrong with either one of you. So glad you both are going out and having a good time :smthumbup: Nothing wrong with getting ego boosts from pretty ladies in my opinion


There's definitely nothing wrong with getting ego boosts from women! I think during every break-up/divorce it should be mandatory .

I agree, there is nothing wrong with HB, or me. I have my POS tendencies, I've made mistakes, but it's the present that matters, and I'm working to change those things. I will be a good man one day, despite what my STBXW says! I know she doesn't want me to become the man that I want to be, because in the past she has told me if I become the man I used to be, she wouldn't want to miss out on that. But she will miss out on it now. I gave her plenty of chances to not miss out on it,


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## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Well WWB, I'm glad to know you are getting attention from women while you're out. It sounds like you are a pretty good looking guy. It reinforces my point on a different thread that once a women detaches emotionally from someone, they typically lose physical attraction as well. I struggled with this at first because it made me feel bad about myself and started being really critical over my appearance. I'm now starting to remember that I'm good looking guy again. It takes awhile to get confidence back.


Haha thanks BM, I wouldn't say I'm "good looking", but I'm no lagoon creature either . I completely agree that women lose physical attraction when they lose that emotional connection. I always thought my STBXW used to tell me that I was "gorgeous" and "sexy" and so on because she loved me. Then when she told me she wasn't attracted to me any more, I felt pretty low, and like I was right the whole time. But I was wrong, I was wrong for years and I'm so happy I know that now.

Don't be critical of yourself, get out there, get a few beers, have some fun and grab a few women for a dance or a chat . Your confidence will return full strength in time buddy.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> My entire life I've suffered with poor self-esteem, I feel so stupid for not realising sooner that I'm actually not too bad a person. I always felt ugly, boring, undesirable and like a waste of space, but I know I'm none of those things now. I guess the time to myself to really evaluate myself and my life has done me good!
> 
> I'm sure one day I'll get to the point where I can be more confident whilst sober, especially if my self-esteem keeps rising the way it is at the moment.
> 
> I can't dance either, but I have fun and I don't care if people ridicule my dancing. Sure, I can't dance, people might laugh at me, but if I were to give them a guitar, I'd doubt they'd be able to wail out a killer blues solo! My turn to laugh . I always focused on what I couldn't do, what my failings were. Now I appreciate my good points and my talents and it does wonders for my happiness.
> 
> The way you are describing that you felt, I've felt that way my whole life, and add undeserving to the list. When my wife left, I really did feel the lowest I have ever felt in my life. I'm just glad I realised that I had no reason to feel so low. Sure she doesn't love me, she doesn't want to spend time with me and so on. But lots of people do, my friends, my family. People like me, I have a good sense of humour and a good personality!
> 
> Confidence truly is key, it's just a case of knowing exactly how confident to be in certain situations, which is what I am now learning.


I have had that too, WWB. That is how I know the feeling so well. I know exactly where mine springs from - a physically abusive Father for whom nothing I or my brother did was good enough. We made straight A's, worked every day after school from 3rd grade on, played sports and were good at them... yet we were still beat, called stupid, lazy, and ugly. It scarred us forever. Your head can tell you all day long that what you are feeling is bs, but the heart rarely listens. It is a constant struggle. Shortly before he died from cancer he tried to justify it all as 'making us tough'. I just looked at him with pity and said, "It certainly did that" before walking out on him without looking back. If it wasn't for having one of the best men on the planet as a grandfather to model myself on, I'd probably be even more thoroughly screwed up.

I don't know about in the UK, but here in the US places often have 'Open Mic' nights where you can take your guitar in and play whatever you want. It is great fun when there is an appreciative audience. I've done it a few times myself when wanting to get a reaction to songs I have written. It sure beats me trying to dance. 

You are on the right track and mending nicely imo. Keep it up and keep us updated.


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I have had that too, WWB. That is how I know the feeling so well. I know exactly where mine springs from - a physically abusive Father for whom nothing I or my brother did was good enough. We made straight A's, worked every day after school from 3rd grade on, played sports and were good at them... yet we were still beat, called stupid, lazy, and ugly. It scarred us forever. Your head can tell you all day long that what you are feeling is bs, but the heart rarely listens. It is a constant struggle. Shortly before he died from cancer he tried to justify it all as 'making us tough'. I just looked at him with pity and said, "It certainly did that" before walking out on him without looking back. If it wasn't for having one of the best men on the planet as a grandfather to model myself on, I'd probably be even more thoroughly screwed up.
> 
> I don't know about in the UK, but here in the US places often have 'Open Mic' nights where you can take your guitar in and play whatever you want. It is great fun when there is an appreciative audience. I've done it a few times myself when wanting to get a reaction to songs I have written. It sure beats me trying to dance.
> 
> You are on the right track and mending nicely imo. Keep it up and keep us updated.


I know where mine stems from too, both of my parents. Nothing I ever did was good enough and they always pressured me to do more. My IQ was off the charts when I was a child and my mother was never happy with what I did. Also I have some abandonment issues from childhood, both of my parents abandoned me, not physically but emotionally. There were times when both of them "punished" me physically. My mother used to hit me across the back of my knuckles with a wooden spoon. My father was only ever physical once, he punched me when I was about 11.

We do have those in the UK, but they are few and far between. I don't have the confidence for that though, at least not yet . Maybe one day. I'm seriously considering getting a tripod for my smartphone and uploading some videos of me playing to YouTube however. I've never shared my music with anyone, even STBXW due to lack of confidence.

I think I'm doing okay all things considered. The several issues that I have from childhood make this process much more difficult, but I am resolving those issues!

I post here on an almost daily basis so the updates will keep coming . Though, I'll probably have less to say now STBXW is no longer in my life.


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## Honorbound

Good! If you do that, PM me a link to the vids. I'd love to listen.


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## GotLifeBack

Will do! It probably won't be for a while yet though.

If I'm feeling confident I may even post links in the thread!


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## GotLifeBack

Thread title updated 

I've also contacted the mods to request a username change.

Edit: It seems have only updated the title on the first post!


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## Honorbound

Hahahah! Yes, I see the 'new' title on the first one. Lol.

:rofl:


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## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I know where mine stems from too, both of my parents. Nothing I ever did was good enough and they always pressured me to do more. My IQ was off the charts when I was a child and my mother was never happy with what I did. Also I have some abandonment issues from childhood, both of my parents abandoned me, not physically but emotionally. There were times when both of them "punished" me physically. My mother used to hit me across the back of my knuckles with a wooden spoon. My father was only ever physical once, he punched me when I was about 11.
> 
> We do have those in the UK, but they are few and far between. I don't have the confidence for that though, at least not yet . Maybe one day. I'm seriously considering getting a tripod for my smartphone and uploading some videos of me playing to YouTube however. I've never shared my music with anyone, even STBXW due to lack of confidence.
> 
> I think I'm doing okay all things considered. The several issues that I have from childhood make this process much more difficult, but I am resolving those issues!
> 
> I post here on an almost daily basis so the updates will keep coming . Though, I'll probably have less to say now STBXW is no longer in my life.


I can relate to a lot of what you wrote here WWB.


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## KnottedStomach

Hey WWB, 

Sorry to hear about what happened with you and your STBXW, but I am happy you are handling everything so well and with a positive attitude, that's the way to open yourself to a bright future and to heal.


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## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Hey WWB,
> 
> Sorry to hear about what happened with you and your STBXW, but I am happy you are handling everything so well and with a positive attitude, that's the way to open yourself to a bright future and to heal.


Thanks KS 

I think now I'm comfortable being alone, I've learned to make myself happy, I know what was missing from my life that made my miserable, namely a social life and my guitar. I still have moments when I'm sad things have ended up this way, but it is what it is and there's nothing I can do to change it, I just have to get on with my life, and let STBXW get on with hers.

I still miss her some times, but that's mostly when I don't have anything to do, or I'm bored. If I'm occupied, I hardly think about her.

A couple of times I've felt like contacting her, but then I think of all the awful things she said on Monday, and that feeling fades quickly!


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## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Thanks KS
> 
> I think now I'm comfortable being alone, I've learned to make myself happy, I know what was missing from my life that made my miserable, namely a social life and my guitar. I still have moments when I'm sad things have ended up this way, but it is what it is and there's nothing I can do to change it, I just have to get on with my life, and let STBXW get on with hers.
> 
> I still miss her some times, but that's mostly when I don't have anything to do, or I'm bored. If I'm occupied, I hardly think about her.
> 
> A couple of times I've felt like contacting her, but then I think of all the awful things she said on Monday, and that feeling fades quickly!


Yeah I know the feeling. At least you have distance from her, which I am sure helps. I am still stuck in the house with my STBX, I do and don't look forward to the day he finally moves out.

Like I said before, write a list of all the wrong things, and when you have the urge to contact her, look at the list, it will stop you.

Overall, you sound happier than when you first wrote here. I am glad for you my friend.


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## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Yeah I know the feeling. At least you have distance from her, which I am sure helps. I am still stuck in the house with my STBX, I do and don't look forward to the day he finally moves out.
> 
> Like I said before, write a list of all the wrong things, and when you have the urge to contact her, look at the list, it will stop you.
> 
> Overall, you sound happier than when you first wrote here. I am glad for you my friend.


Things will get easier once your H moves out. It's good to have distance from her, but it's sad too. I never wanted distance from her, but I was blinded by love, and couldn't see that she was no good for me.

I sometimes read over my journal, and I can see how I've gone from being a desperate, lonely person to where I am today, it's a good affirmation of my progress.

I feel happier than when I first came here, things are looking up, life's not all that bad .


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## RandomDude

WantWifeBack said:


> Thread title updated
> 
> I've also contacted the mods to request a username change.
> 
> Edit: It seems have only updated the title on the first post!


:rofl:

I wonder which mod did it lol


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## GotLifeBack

I don't know, but I'm looking forward to having a new username 

This one is so last month.


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## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I don't know, but I'm looking forward to having a new username
> 
> This one is so last month.


LOL! 

Sorry WWB, but to me you will always be WWB - Whole Wheat Bread


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## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> LOL!
> 
> Sorry WWB, but to me you will always be WWB - Whole Wheat Bread


Well hopefully soon I'll be GLB 

Edit: Strangely, wholewheat bread is the only kind I eat!


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## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Well hopefully soon I'll be GLB
> 
> Edit: Strangely, wholewheat bread is the only kind I eat!


GLB?

GoofyLookinBast***? :scratchhead:


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> GLB?
> 
> GoofyLookinBast***? :scratchhead:


Yeah, exactly that 

But, not that.


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## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I can't dance either, but I have fun and I don't care if people ridicule my dancing. Sure, I can't dance, people might laugh at me, but if I were to give them a guitar, I'd doubt they'd be able to wail out a killer blues solo! My turn to laugh . I always focused on what I couldn't do, what my failings were. Now I appreciate my good points and my talents and it does wonders for my happiness.


Do you want to know the secret of being a good dancer?

Rule #1 KNOW you are a good dancer
Rule #2 There are no other rules. Please yourself. That's it.



> Confidence truly is key, it's just a case of knowing exactly how confident to be in certain situations, which is what I am now learning.


One thing I've noticed about Nice Guys is that they set themselves impossible to meet standards. Which when you fail to meet them makes you feel bad about yourself. As you said above, you used to focus on what you couldn't do; a precious waste of run-time. 

Something to think about; A sign I read about in an American penitentiary:

*No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
*

Ps. I'm an AWESOME dancer. I do not have self-esteem issues. There is a correlation


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## CrazyBeautiful1

GLB = got life back?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrazyBeautiful1

I think I'm a horrible dancer. I will only slow dance.. Sober lol

If I have a few drinks, I stop caring about looking crazy and just have fun. Who knows what I look like! 

Although, apparently during my separation I danced with someone while out one night... And he didn't complain one bit  maybe I'm not so bad after all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound

azteca1986 said:


> Ps. I'm an AWESOME dancer. I do not have self-esteem issues. There is a correlation


You know, I used to think EXACTLY the same thing. Then I saw this Seinfeld episode... and I was like "OMG, She STOLE my moves!!... wait a minute, why is everyone edging away from her....?" :banghead:

Some people really can't dance certain kinds of dance.


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## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> GLB = got life back?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bingo  I'm on the road and in meetings all day today so probably won't be able to post much! 

I'm sure you're a good dancer CB1! I don't think I am, but if I'm having fun I just don't care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986

Honorbound said:


> You know, I used to think EXACTLY the same thing. Then I saw this Seinfeld episode... and I was like "OMG, She STOLE my moves!!... wait a minute, why is everyone edging away from her....?" :banghead:


 Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "look at me" type of person at all. I'd say IRL I'm shy and reserved. But I KNOW I can dance which is the most important step. I'm only dancing to please myself. You can tell I'm comfortable with myself and have the confidence to do things my own way. These are attractive qualities on and off the dance floor.



> Some people really can't dance certain kinds of dance.


True. If there's something I can't dance to, I don't. I had the good fortune of being at just the right age when dance music and rave culture hit the UK. Good times.



WantWifeBack said:


> 'm sure you're a good dancer CB1! I don't think I am, but if I'm having fun I just don't care!


In the previous post I quoted, WWB/stbGLB, you said you were a crap dancer twice and added an element of likely ridicule too. That's a lot of baggage to bring on to the dance floor. This is what I mean about giving your consent to feeling inferior. You've spent a long time inadvertantly putting yourself down and allowing others to treat you poorly. It's a pleasure to see how you've grown more comfortable with yourself over the course of your thread.

Next time you go dancing, just do me (and yourself) this favour; leave the negative thoughts behind. KNOW you can dance and you're there to have fun. It's just you and the tunes. Have the confidence to know it's nobody's f*cking business as to how you choose to amuse yourself.


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## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> One thing I've noticed about Nice Guys is that they set themselves impossible to meet standards. Which when you fail to meet them makes you feel bad about yourself. As you said above, you used to focus on what you couldn't do; a precious waste of run-time.
> 
> Something to think about; A sign I read about in an American penitentiary:
> 
> *No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
> *


This is so true about Nice Guys, we hold ourselves to impossible standards, something which I'm slowly breaking.

No longer will anyone be permitted to make me feel inferior.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> This is so true about Nice Guys, we hold ourselves to impossible standards, something which I'm slowly breaking.


Good stuff. You won't achieve anything in any aspect of your life without standards. Unattainable standards, however, will only serve to chip away at your self-confidence. It'll take time to fix, so... don't be too hard on yourself.



> No longer will anyone be permitted to make me feel inferior.


This on the other hand was like flicking a switch, for me. People will _try_ and put you down; it's inevitable. You no longer have to play along.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Good stuff. You won't achieve anything in any aspect of your life without standards. Unattainable standards, however, will only serve to chip away at your self-confidence. It'll take time to fix, so... don't be too hard on yourself.
> 
> This on the other hand was like flicking a switch, for me. People will _try_ and put you down; it's inevitable. You no longer have to play along.


My unattainable standards were one of the things that were damaging my self-esteem. I'm working to fix it and I think it's going well so far, but I still have a long way to go.

My STBXW tried to put me down earlier this week, she tried to crush my confidence, I didn't allow her to. It was empowering. I think it was easier because I _knew_ that she was just trying to hurt me, that I could cast it all aside, there was no truth in what she said.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Although, I still set myself "unattainable" standards on a physical level for the women that I am attracted to.

I put "unattainable" in speech marks, because it's not truly unattainable, it's just difficult. I managed to get with my STBXW, and she's stunning on a physical level. Emotionally she's ugly, and in terms of maturity too. 

In all honesty, when I hit clubs and dance, I'm not there looking for the next potential for a relationship, but in terms of physical beauty, there's some really attractive women around. I enjoy the eye candy/dancing.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Having a bad day today it seems. Feeling like I really want to contact STBXW. 

I'm not going to, because I know it will serve no purpose, other than to make me feel worse. 

Must keep reminding myself that the woman I want to talk to is long gone. She's not there anymore, she's been taken over by a spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl. 

This whole situation is so frustrating at times!

Ah well, I'll just keep looking forward to my awesome night out tomorrow .


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## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Must keep reminding myself that the woman I want to talk to is long gone. She's not there anymore, she's been taken over by a spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl.


The person you're pining for is not the complete person. She didn't change. This is the whole her. She may have been strikingly good-looking but this only helped masked the true her; the spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl. That's the complete picture. 

People blessed with good looks do have it easier in life. Studies have actually shown mothers favour their better looking offspring. When we choose our friends, the ones we really trust, their looks don't come into it. When picking a life partner we have to be a bit Dr. Martin Luther King about things; it' not the pretty wrapper, but the content of their character. 

If you married one stunning girl you'll be able to find a stunning well-rounded, loyal woman sometime in the future. They are not easy to find, so enjoy the hunt!



> Ah well, I'll just *keep looking forward* to my awesome night out tomorrow .


The best policy.


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## Honorbound

azteca1986 said:


> The person you're pining for is not the complete person. She didn't change. This is the whole her. She may have been strikingly good-looking but this only helped masked the true her; the spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl. That's the complete picture.
> 
> People blessed with good looks do have it easier in life. Studies have actually shown mothers favour their better looking offspring. When we choose our friends, the ones we really trust, their looks don't come into it. When picking a life partner we have to be a bit Dr. Martin Luther King about things; it' not the pretty wrapper, but the content of their character.
> 
> If you married one stunning girl you'll be able to find a stunning well-rounded, loyal woman sometime in the future. They are not easy to find, so enjoy the hunt!
> 
> The best policy.


:iagree:

Only problem I've found with this philosophy are the ones that are quite adept at pretending to be pretty on the inside too....sometimes for years on end. You really need to watch for the signs and not dismiss/ignore them out of hand, I guess.<---- More a reminder for myself, but works for all of us I reckon.

I don't know why anyone would pretend to be something they aren't, but some folks do. Hoping enough acting will make it so, I guess?


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## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> The person you're pining for is not the complete person. She didn't change. This is the whole her. She may have been strikingly good-looking but this only helped masked the true her; the spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl. That's the complete picture.
> 
> People blessed with good looks do have it easier in life. Studies have actually shown mothers favour their better looking offspring. When we choose our friends, the ones we really trust, their looks don't come into it. When picking a life partner we have to be a bit Dr. Martin Luther King about things; it' not the pretty wrapper, but the content of their character.
> 
> If you married one stunning girl you'll be able to find a stunning well-rounded, loyal woman sometime in the future. They are not easy to find, so enjoy the hunt!
> 
> The best policy.


I hope for her sake that one day she can become a well-rounded loyal woman, that day isn't today though, and is extremely unlikely to be tomorrow! Whenever it is, there's very little chance that I'll be around to see it. When I last spoke to her, I wished her a speedy recovery from her Glandular Fever. She said "We'll see". I couldn't resist pointing out that she'll see, but I won't be around to see it.

That's very true about people blessed with good looks having it easier in life, this is doubly true for females. I agree that it's not the pretty wrapper, but for me, I have to be extremely physically attracted to my partner. My sex drive tailed off significantly over the last 6 months, I believe it was as a result of low testosterone. Since I've been hitting the gym, my sex drive is through the roof. I also had other symptoms of low testosterone. My STBXW thought that my low sex drive was a result of me not finding her physically attractive. This wasn't the case though.

They aren't easy to find, and the hunt hasn't truly begun yet. I see lots of "pretty wrappers" in clubs, but it's not the ideal setting to find out about the content of their character. I guess that's where dating comes in, which is something I don't feel quite ready for or confident enough for yet. I'll get there though. Right now I'm quite happy being alone. I sure do miss sex though.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Only problem I've found with this philosophy are the ones that are quite adept at pretending to be pretty on the inside too....sometimes for years on end. You really need to watch for the signs and not dismiss/ignore them out of hand, I guess.<---- More a reminder for myself, but works for all of us I reckon.
> 
> I don't know why anyone would pretend to be something they aren't, but some folks do. Hoping enough acting will make it so, I guess?


Yeah, they are extremely good at it. It's all part of NPD. The more I look back the more I think my STBXW has NPD and did right from the start. Yes she had low self-esteem at times, but she always considered herself better than others. Always considered herself superior. I should have seen those red flags, but love is blind.

I guess it's a case of "fake it 'til you make it".


----------



## azteca1986

Honorbound said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Only problem I've found with this philosophy are the ones that are quite adept at pretending to be pretty on the inside too....sometimes for years on end. You really need to watch for the signs and not dismiss/ignore them out of hand, I guess.<---- More a reminder for myself, but works for all of us I reckon.


Out of interest what kind of signs?

One non-obvious sign, I've noticed here, is women with low self-esteem. The CWI board is full of them. In married life they seem susceptible to falling for the attention of other men.



> I don't know why anyone would pretend to be something they aren't, but some folks do. Hoping enough acting will make it so, I guess?


Authenticity is for me a very attractive quality. I don't keep false people around me. Of course recognising if a person is genuine and authentic can only be gauged over a period of time.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> That's very true about people blessed with good looks having it easier in life, this is doubly true for females. I agree that it's not the pretty wrapper, but for me, I have to be extremely physically attracted to my partner.


I agree. Settling for somebody you don't find attractive comes with its own set of future problems - a recipe for disaster. As I said earlier, set high standards in all aspects of your life.

Part of my job entails working with models. At first I was surprised how insecure some of them were. I shouldn't have been. They get judged on their looks and attract a certain kind of attention. They have to be wary of people's intentions. Then they fret that they aren't taken seriously. In relationships they are not used to people saying "No", etc



> They aren't easy to find, and the hunt hasn't truly begun yet. I see lots of "pretty wrappers" in clubs, but it's not the ideal setting to find out about the content of their character. I guess that's where dating comes in, which is something I don't feel quite ready for or confident enough for yet. I'll get there though. Right now I'm quite happy being alone. I sure do miss sex though.


When you're content with yourself you'll be ready to for a relationship. You're right, take your time when you date someone and look for those warning signs.


----------



## Honorbound

azteca1986 said:


> Out of interest what kind of signs?
> 
> One non-obvious sign, I've noticed here, is women with low self-esteem. The CWI board is full of them. In married life they seem susceptible to falling for the attention of other men.


That is indeed one of the signs - a major one that is easy to overlook or take out of context.



azteca1986 said:


> Authenticity is for me a very attractive quality. I don't keep false people around me. Of course recognising if a person is genuine and authentic can only be gauged over a period of time.


It is for all of us, I'm sure. Some are really good actors, though. At least with me, by the time the cracks started to show I was unable or unwilling to recognize them for what they were. After all, I think most of us have self-esteem issues every now and then. I always tended to prop my STBX up whenever she was down about herself. Reassuring her that everything was fine. She did the same for me after my surgery where I was blinded in one eye, so I took it as just something couples do for each other.

To tell the truth, I'm still not sure how you can spot the fakes from the genuine ones until the fakes decide to quit pretending anymore (at least the Oscar-level ones).

I does seem they try to "fake it until they make it" as WWB, said. Then just give up at some point.

If someone always keeps their word to you. Tells you their core beliefs and live by them for years (words backed up by actions). Then suddenly, years later, goes against every bit of that. What do you do?

Come here and get it out. Family, friends, 180, IC. Try to continue on as best you can... and do your best to fine-tune your BS detector for the next one you meet, I reckon.

I used to consider myself pretty good at spotting the ugly-on-the-inside ones. Some might take a few weeks, but it was always eventually easy to spot the flaws. I've been out with a lot of women. This latest one had me completely snowed, though, for a long time. It was maddening and ego crushing for a week or two.

I know I am as much to blame too, though. Somewhere in all of those years I lost the part of myself that knew I didn't need anyone else to make me happy. I couldn't tell you _when_ it happened, but it did. Ahhh, co-dependence... not attractive for anyone. I guess that was the trigger to not even bother pretending anymore - for both WWB's and mine.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> I agree. Settling for somebody you don't find attractive comes with its own set of future problems - a recipe for disaster. As I said earlier, set high standards in all aspects of your life.
> 
> Part of my job entails working with models. At first I was surprised how insecure some of them were. I shouldn't have been. They get judged on their looks and attract a certain kind of attention. They have to be wary of people's intentions. Then they fret that they aren't taken seriously. In relationships they are not used to people saying "No", etc


No, I'd never be able to settle for someone I didn't have a physical connection with, no matter how beautiful they were in character. It's sad, but it's true.

Strangely, STBXW works as a model, and she had low self-esteem for so long. I think she still does but she's putting on a false bravado, or at least she seemed to be the last few times I spoke with her. She also doesn't know how to handle "No".


----------



## GotLifeBack

Oops, double post


----------



## woosaa

azteca1986 said:


> When you're content with yourself you'll be ready to for a relationship. You're right, take your time when you date someone and look for those warning signs.


:iagree: Once you love yourself to the fullest this is when you look for a partner that loves themselves as well. You do not need to seek a partner to fill those holes. It is not easy and def a continuous cycle of "coaching yourself up" daily. 

WWB I feel your pain still on this rollercoaster. And it is tough to let go when you just cannot grasp how someone can be so cold. I still struggle with this, but have to tell myself that she does what she wants now and for me the same. Not easy and like I said currently I am having similar thoughts, but keep telling yourself you do deserve better and look at the positives. 

In the meantime have fun like you are doing. When it comes time to date you will be more prepared and will see those red flags. No rush.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> It is for all of us, I'm sure. Some are really good actors, though. At least with me, by the time the cracks started to show I was unable or unwilling to recognize them for what they were. After all, I think most of us have self-esteem issues every now and then. I always tended to prop my STBX up whenever she was down about herself. Reassuring her that everything was fine. She did the same for me after my surgery where I was blinded in one eye, so I took it as just something couples do for each other.
> 
> To tell the truth, I'm still not sure how you can spot the fakes from the genuine ones until the fakes decide to quit pretending anymore (at least the Oscar-level ones).
> 
> I does seem they try to "fake it until they make it" as WWB, said. Then just give up at some point.
> 
> If someone always keeps their word to you. Tells you their core beliefs and live by them for years (words backed up by actions). Then suddenly, years later, goes against every bit of that. What do you do?
> 
> Come here and get it out. Family, friends, 180, IC. Try to continue on as best you can... and do your best to fine-tune your BS detector for the next one you meet, I reckon.
> 
> I used to consider myself pretty good at spotting the ugly-on-the-inside ones. Some might take a few weeks, but it was always eventually easy to spot the flaws. I've been out with a lot of women. This latest one had me completely snowed, though, for a long time. It was maddening and ego crushing for a week or two.
> 
> I know I am as much to blame too, though. Somewhere in all of those years I lost the part of myself that knew I didn't need anyone else to make me happy. I couldn't tell you _when_ it happened, but it did. Ahhh, co-dependence... not attractive for anyone. I guess that was the trigger to not even bother pretending anymore - for both WWB's and mine.


Authenticity plays hugely on how attracted to a person I am. I think it's to do with confidence. People are attracted to confidence, confident people are happy being themselves.

Only time will tell if someone is being false or not, the real trick is finding who is worthy of that time. I thought STBXW was, but now I want my 6 years back. Well, parts of the last 6 years, we had a lot of good times too.

Co-dependence is a killer for both partners. Both me and my STBXW were co-dependent. From my end, my co-dependency did the following:

Killed my self-esteem;
Destroyed my self-respect;
Made me believe I was unable to make myself happy;
Exacerbated my Nice Guy tendencies;
Caused me to become jealous, and
Made me lose who I truly am.

I'd imagine her co-dependency did the same things to her.

My co-dependency caused her to:

Lose her respect for me;
Use me like a doormat;
Lose her physical attraction to me;
Lose her emotional attachment to me, and
Caused resentment to build.

Co-dependency was a major player in the downfall of my marriage.


----------



## Honorbound

By the way, WWB. Even though you are feeling better, it wouldn't hurt to get your T checked. That's what led to my self-esteem issues. I suddenly was tired - all the time. Put on 70-80 lbs in a little over a year. The whole time I kept going to various doctor's telling them something was wrong and I did NOT feel like myself. I even carried a picture of me from a year before with a time-stamp on it. "Look, this was me just last year! Something is wrong!". They either checked things, like thyroid, and said it wasn't that or that they just didn't know (insinuating I was just being lazy). Not once did they check my testosterone levels (I know, right?). Through sheer willpower I was able to drop most of the weight, but I still didn't feel like "me".

I finally saw a commercial on TV a few years ago about Low-T and a light bulb went off in my head. It matched my symptoms perfectly. I went to the doctor's office and asked to be checked. The nurse actually scoffed at me and said that would be very rare in someone my age (40 at the time), but it was my money - she'd run the blood test if I wanted. She acted like she was going to prove me wrong (I'm sure they do get tired of people self-diagnosing... but still). She must have run it right away, because she called me that afternoon (with a completely different attitude) and said it was well below normal. I was given a prescription for some stuff you absorb through your skin that day. It wasn't quite doing the trick, so I was switched to injections I give myself.

Ever since I have felt more and more like myself every day. Working out 6 days a week and looking better and better.

I wouldn't hurt for any of you guys out there to get it checked if you start exhibiting any of the symptoms I described.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> :iagree: Once you love yourself to the fullest this is when you look for a partner that loves themselves as well. You do not need to seek a partner to fill those holes. It is not easy and def a continuous cycle of "coaching yourself up" daily.
> 
> WWB I feel your pain still on this rollercoaster. And it is tough to let go when you just cannot grasp how someone can be so cold. I still struggle with this, but have to tell myself that she does what she wants now and for me the same. Not easy and like I said currently I am having similar thoughts, but keep telling yourself you do deserve better and look at the positives.
> 
> In the meantime have fun like you are doing. When it comes time to date you will be more prepared and will see those red flags. No rush.


I'm sure I'll get there eventually. I'm already a lot more confident, and my self-esteem is rising. I don't want a partner yet anyway, I'm quite happy just having fun and learning to love myself. 

I am still on the rollercoaster, but the climbs and dips are getting smaller and less frequent. Looking forward to hitting that continuous level track. There are many positives here for me to focus on, and so I am trying my best to!

I'll definitely keep having fun, I'm loving certain aspects of my life at the moment.


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> By the way, WWB. Even though you are feeling better, it wouldn't hurt to get your T checked. That's what led to my self-esteem issues. I suddenly was tired - all the time. Put on 70-80 lbs in a little over a year. The whole time I kept going to various doctor's telling them something was wrong and I did NOT feel like myself. I even carried a picture of me from a year before with a time-stamp on it. "Look, this was me just last year! Something is wrong!". They either checked things, like thyroid, and said it wasn't that or that they just didn't know (insinuating I was just being lazy). Not once did they check my testosterone levels (I know, right?). Through sheer willpower I was able to drop most of the weight, but I still didn't feel like "me".
> 
> I finally saw a commercial on TV a few years ago about Low-T and a light bulb went off in my head. It matched my symptoms perfectly. I went to the doctor's office and asked to be checked. The nurse actually scoffed at me and said that would be very rare in someone my age (40 at the time), but it was my money - she'd run the blood test if I wanted. She acted like she was going to prove me wrong (I'm sure they do get tired of people self-diagnosing... but still). She must have run it right away, because she called me that afternoon (with a completely different attitude) and said it was well below normal. I was given a prescription for some stuff you absorb through your skin that day. It wasn't quite doing the trick, so I was switched to injections I give myself.
> 
> Ever since I have felt more and more like myself every day. Working out 6 days a week and looking better and better.
> 
> I wouldn't hurt for any of you guys out there to get it checked if you start exhibiting any of the symptoms I described.


My symptoms of low T have abated quite a lot since I stopped drinking caffeine, started hitting the gym, and started surrounding myself with women. Also, as my T increases, my sex drive increases. You have sex (or the other far less fun alternative) and what does it do? Increases your T levels, and so it cycles. Also as you train more in the gym you become more muscular and the greater your muscle mass, the greater your T production. 

As an example, towards the end of my M, me and STBXW would have sex once, maybe twice a week. Since doing all of the above, I feel the "urge" daily, sometimes twice. Ironic that I now have no one to help me release those urges .

Also, on a side note, I lost a lot of weight when STBXW left, I dropped down to about 150lb, and I'm 6'2, so I looked pretty unwell. I weighed myself yesterday for the first time since she left - up to 183lb now, and what's even greater is for the first time in a long time, it's more muscle than fat!


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## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> My co-dependency caused her to:
> 
> Lose her respect for me;
> *Use me like a doormat;
> *Lose her physical attraction to me;
> Lose her emotional attachment to me, and
> Caused resentment to build.
> 
> Co-dependency was a major player in the downfall of my marriage.


This is the key. Allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat leads to loss of attraction and all the other things you pointed out. I read No More Mr. Nice Guy, well I didn't finish the first chapter because I couldn't relate. Interestingly one of the good posters here, Thorburn, is a counsellor and doesn't agree with the idea of co-denpency.

As *woosa* intimated you cannot love someone else until you love yourself. It's good to see you're getting there WWB.


----------



## azteca1986

Honorbound said:


> It is for all of us, I'm sure. Some are really good actors, though. At least with me, by the time the cracks started to show I was unable or unwilling to recognize them for what they were. After all, I think most of us have self-esteem issues every now and then. I always tended to prop my STBX up whenever she was down about herself. Reassuring her that everything was fine. She did the same for me after my surgery where I was blinded in one eye, so I took it as just something couples do for each other.


Those sound quite normal to me. Are they signs of low self-esteem? When we were dating my future wife would be weepy, needy and felt unworthy once a month. But that wasn't her usual character. And a elk in the park with what I occasionally have to deal with now 



> If someone always keeps their word to you. Tells you their core beliefs and live by them for years (words backed up by actions). Then suddenly, years later, goes against every bit of that. What do you do?


Reading both your threads I think you both had to deal with infidelity which is a major game changer. Some signs are obvious, some a lot less so. 



> I know I am as much to blame too, though. *Somewhere in all of those years I lost the part of myself that knew I didn't need anyone else to make me happy. *I couldn't tell you _when_ it happened, but it did. Ahhh, co-dependence... not attractive for anyone. I guess that was the trigger to not even bother pretending anymore - for both WWB's and mine.


A key learning for us all.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> This is the key. Allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat leads to loss of attraction and all the other things you pointed out. I read No More Mr. Nice Guy, well I didn't finish the first chapter because I couldn't relate. Interestingly one of the good posters here, Thorburn, is a counsellor and doesn't agree with the idea of co-denpency.
> 
> As *woosa* intimated you cannot love someone else until you love yourself. It's good to see you're getting there WWB.


I have read No More Mr. Nice Guy and I can relate to it fully, to the point where it's almost as if it was written about me. 

Allowing myself to be a doormat made me look weak, she lost her respect for me, and ultimately her attraction for me. When I met her I was an alpha male, I was strong, confident, and I loved myself. She slowly chipped away at me until I became a beta. Never again. Every man is an alpha, it's just a case of knowing how to get that back once it's been lost.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Those sound quite normal to me. Are they signs of low self-esteem? When we were dating my future wife would be weepy, needy and felt unworthy once a month. But that wasn't her usual character. And a elk in the park with what I occasionally have to deal with now
> 
> Reading both your threads I think you both had to deal with infidelity which is a major game changer. Some signs are obvious, some a lot less so.
> 
> A key learning for us all.


My STBXW used to have days where she would just lay and sleep all day out of sheer depression. Sometimes I'd get home from work to find her still in bed fast asleep. She also used to get weepy, needy and self-depreciating at times, but there was no real pattern to it. 

I have no proof of infidelity, but I certainly suspect it, not that it makes any difference now so I don't dwell on it. All the signs were there though.


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## Honorbound

That is the key. Not dwelling and focusing on you.

I did read the No More Mr. Nice guy book. I didn't identify with it at all. I generally do what I think is right and don't care what others think... even though that bites me in the buttocks occasionally. Whereas the guys in the book changed their personalities in a constant attempt to seek validation from others. I genuinely don't care if people like me or not (some don't...some do) and don't need their validation... still hurts when you realize your faith and trust was misplaced, though. I imagine it is easier for me to shrug it off and chalk it up to "at least now I know who she really is" than one of the examples in the book. The initial hurt is still the same, though.

Mine showed the signs for infidelity too. That was the first conclusion I came to. After a lot of checking, I no longer think it is the case. It is likely something else that is going to bite her in the a$$ one day. It doesn't matter. The result is indistinguishable. Would have just made it easier for me to laugh in her face and move on if that is what it was - I've dealt with that before. I found this harder to just let go, even though I know that is the proper method for dealing with either. I am bad about wanting to know "why" and get frustrated when I don't, and will likely never, really know.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> That is the key.
> 
> I did read the No More Mr. Nice guy book. I didn't identify with it at all. I usually do what I think is right and don't care what others think. Whereas the guys in the book changed their personalities in a constant attempt to seek validation from others. I genuinely don't care if people like me or not (some don't...some do) and don't need their validation... still hurts when you realize your faith and trust was misplaced, though. I imagine it is easier to shrug off and chalk it up to "at least now I know who she really is" when you don't need others for validating yourself. The initial hurt is still the same, though.


For me, my Nice Guy tendencies stem from my childhood, nothing I did was ever good enough, add abandonment in to the mix and then the Nice Guy tendencies are born. 

I now no longer care though, I know I can't please everyone or be liked by everyone. That's just the way it is. If what I do isn't good enough, if I am not good enough, well then that's their problem, not mine. 

The hurt is the same, but it's so much easier to handle now. Probably because of everything I've learned about her, and about myself. I know I'm setting myself up to be in the best possible position for an awesome future, and that I can share that future with someone worthy of it.


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## LostViking

Reading through this thread, I wonder if she ever really loved you? I know you have CD issues and you have done a good job getting over that, but even if you had been the perfect stud- muffin husband with no CD issues, I still think the end game would have been the same. 

She is far more broken than you. I don't see much happiness in her life, and I hope she never remarries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I have read No More Mr. Nice Guy and I can relate to it fully, to the point where it's almost as if it was written about me.
> 
> Allowing myself to be a doormat made me look weak, she lost her respect for me, and ultimately her attraction for me. When I met her I was an alpha male, I was strong, confident, and I loved myself. She slowly chipped away at me until I became a beta. Never again. *Every man is an alpha*, it's just a case of knowing how to get that back once it's been lost.


I like this. Anybody who managed to get somebody to commit to them and marry them posses some Alpha traits. What happens is in a LTR we often make some mis-steps that lead to the women in our lives losing attraction for us. We lose our good Alpha traits and replace them with bad Beta ones. And we also fail to pass their regular fitness tests.

Good Alpha: Decisiveness, Leadership, things that help maintain sexual attraction, (plus the things you mentioned)

Bad Alpha: Not listening (bad leadership), being too independent

Bad Beta: Doormat behaviour

Good Beta: Reading bedtime stories in funny voices

We gotta remember when considering the Alpha/Beta relationship they are not two opposing ends of a continuum. There are four quadrants at play and to maintain a healthy LTR we have to balance two of them and avoid the others.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I now no longer care though, I know I can't please everyone or be liked by everyone. That's just the way it is. If what I do isn't good enough, if *I am not good enough*, well then that's their problem, not mine.


Not to sound like Yoda but - There is only giving it your best shot. No one can ask for more.


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## Honorbound

azteca1986 said:


> Not to sound like Yoda but - There is only giving it your best shot. No on can ask for more.


I agree. As long as you are happy with you, then who cares what anyone else thinks? Good to see you accepting that as a given now, WWB! You are doing very well. :smthumbup:


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> Reading through this thread, I wonder if she ever really loved you? I know you have CD issues and you have done a good job getting over that, but even if you had been the perfect stud- muffin husband with no CD issues, I still think the end game would have been the same.
> 
> She is far more broken than you. I don't see much happiness in her life, and I hope she never remarries.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure if she did either, and I'll never know. I know she was massively infatuated with me to begin with. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that she revered me like a god. Perhaps she doesn't know what love is because of her childhood.

She is far more broken, and I know all of the factors that led to it. I won't type out the full story but in a nutshell:

Her mother is a diabetic and an alcoholic, she frequently drank to the point she'd vomit all over herself or lose control of her bladder.

When she was two, her parents divorced, her father didn't fight for custody of her or her brother, leaving them both with an alcoholic mother.

After her father left, her mother got in to another relationship with a man who was physically abusive. I'm not sure if he was ever abusive to my STBXW or her brother.

During this relationship, when STBXW was 7, her mother attempted suicide by refusing to take her insulin, and drinking extremely heavily. Her mother went in to a diabetic coma. My STBXW found her in a puddle of her own mess at the age of 7. She called an ambulance and was told her mother had mere hours to live. Miraculously her mother came to and recovered. STBXW used to sometimes talk about this, but I never got the full story as everytime she tried to let it out, she'd end up too hysterical to talk. She'd sob her eyes out and say things like "Why did my mum want to leave me?". It was truly heartbreaking to see.

A few years later, her mother had a massive heart attack as a result of her alcoholism & diabetes, and again was given a very small chance of survival.

Fast forward some years to when I met her when she was 18, and her mother was in hospital at the time having a leg amputate, again due to poor lifestyle choices.

During all of this, her father was mostly absent, and in a new relationship. He had a son which he massively dotes on. This always upset STBXW how he could be such a wonderful father to his son, but not to her or her brother from his previous marriage. He always treated my STBXW and her brother with indifference, and as if they were a burden.

Then, during our relationship/marriage her father has been downright cruel towards her (I think because he didn't like me) and he became a non-entity in her life, rather than just mostly absent. Shortly before she left, her and her father started speaking again. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in all of this, he's extremely manipulative, and despite his treatment of STBXW, she loves him dearly and always longed for a "normal" relationship with him.

Add to this that her mother's health has deteriorated over the last six years, she's lost two toes, and last I spoke to STBXW may be losing her remaining leg. Her mothers kidneys are also failing and she needs a transplant, but has been waiting for years.

To say that my STBXW is "broken" would be something of an understatement.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Not to sound like Yoda but - There is only giving it your best shot. No one can ask for more.


Precisely. All you can do in life is your best. If you give it your best shot, then you have no regrets. If you don't do your best, well that's your own problem to deal with.



> I agree. As long as you are happy with you, then who cares what anyone else thinks? Good to see you accepting that as a given now, WWB! You are doing very well.


Thanks HB, I feel like I'm doing well. In fact this is one of the few times in my life I've genuinely felt proud of myself.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> I like this. Anybody who managed to get somebody to commit to them and marry them posses some Alpha traits. What happens is in a LTR we often make some mis-steps that lead to the women in our lives losing attraction for us. We lose our good Alpha traits and replace them with bad Beta ones. And we also fail to pass their regular fitness tests.
> 
> Good Alpha: Decisiveness, Leadership, things that help maintain sexual attraction, (plus the things you mentioned)
> 
> Bad Alpha: Not listening (bad leadership), being too independent
> 
> Bad Beta: Doormat behaviour
> 
> Good Beta: Reading bedtime stories in funny voices
> 
> We gotta remember when considering the Alpha/Beta relationship they are not two opposing ends of a continuum. There are four quadrants at play and to maintain a healthy LTR we have to balance two of them and avoid the others.


It's a case of finding that fine line between Alpha and *********. 

I know how to be Alpha, I *AM* Alpha. I just forgot that.


----------



## LostViking

Next time you are interested in a LTR with a woman , do your research and make sure she isn't carrying a gang of monkeys on her back like your STBXW. Hell your wife is hauling a whole zoo!

By the way, what has been her reaction to you self improving and dating other women. Has she show any jealousy and regret?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> Next time you are interested in a LTR with a woman , do your research and make sure she isn't carrying a gang of monkeys on her back like your STBXW. Hell your wife is hauling a whole zoo!
> 
> By the way, what has been her reaction to you self improving and dating other women. Has she show any jealousy and regret?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't "dated" other women per se. I have enjoyed the company of other women, she found out I was going to stay with a female friend as mentioned way back at the start of the thread. She was absolutely furious. 

As for the flirting and dancing with other women, I don't know if she knows about that. I haven't mentioned it. I don't want to make her jealous. I have no reason to.

There have however been times where she has told me that she misses me, still "loves" me (if she knows what that is), and for a while she briefly considered R. 

Now I'm just staying NC, what will be will be. I know I'll be happy whatever happens in the future.


----------



## Honorbound

LostViking said:


> Next time you are interested in a LTR with a woman , do your research and make sure she isn't carrying a gang of monkeys on her back like your STBXW. Hell your wife is hauling a whole zoo!
> 
> By the way, what has been her reaction to you self improving and dating other women. Has she show any jealousy and regret?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No kidding. Wow...

Her trying to tear him down in the last week or so is the start of the jealousy phase, in my experience.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> No kidding. Wow...
> 
> Her trying to tear him down in the last week or so is the start of the jealousy phase, in my experience.


Yeah, my childhood sucked, but I don't envy hers one bit. But, being a Nice Guy, the more I got to know about her and her past, the more I wanted to play White Knight and be her hero. I know now that she's the only one that can rescue herself from those skeletons. I wanted to make her happy.

When I met her, she was a kind, caring and sweet girl. She deserved to be happy, I wanted to make her happy.

Perhaps it is the start, I don't know. What I do know is it's too late now, and as she can no longer call or text me, I won't be subjected to that again. I guess she could still email or write to me though.

As I said in a previous post though, my life has been getting better and better, her's worse and worse. Jealousy would be understandable.


----------



## LostViking

She's too messed up to be able to fix her marriage but still lucid enough to watch as WWB move on with his life, a better and stronger man. 

My prediction is that she will look back and consider walking away from WWB as the great regret of her life. 

They often do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> She's too messed up I be able to fix her marriage but still lucid enough to watch as WWB move on with his life, a better and stronger man.
> 
> My prediction is that she will look back and consider walking away from WWB as the great regret of her life.
> 
> They often do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There was a time when I would have loved her to feel the weight of her decision for the rest of her life. Now however, I don't wish that on her. I've regretted my mistakes in the marriage for the past 3 months and it's taking it's toll. A lifetime of that? No thanks. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I try not to make predictions regarding what she will do in the future, because they instill a false hope within me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting her to contact me at some point though. I don't want to speculate as to the reason, though.

In her eyes, at the moment, leaving me was the best thing she ever did. I'm sure now that we are in strict and complete NC, she will begin to have her doubts. She's very stubborn and very prideful though, so they will never amount to anything more than just doubts.


----------



## Honorbound

LostViking said:


> She's too messed up I be able to fix her marriage but still lucid enough to watch as WWB move on with his life, a better and stronger man.
> 
> My prediction is that she will look back and consider walking away from WWB as the great regret of her life.
> 
> They often do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. I've had that happen to me twice now. 1st XW and one XGF both begging for me to give them another chance after a few months of being back on my own, but why the h*ll would I do that? I'd been down both of those particular roads before and knew exactly where they led. I didn't like it there the first time, so why would I go back? 

I predict WWB's will do the same as well.

If she does, brother, it will be hard. She knows how to pull your strings (or thinks she does). Just remember who you are and try not to ever forget it again.

And never allow our predictions to color what you are doing now. I know you hoped for just that when this started, but you are realizing now how disastrous that would have been.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I agree. I've had that happen to me twice now. 1st XW and one XGF both begging for me to give them another chance after a few months of being back on my own, but why the h*ll would I do that? I'd been down both of those particular roads before and knew exactly where they led. I didn't like it there the first time, so why would I go back?
> 
> I predict WWB's will do the same as well.
> 
> If she does, brother, it will be hard. She knows how to pull your strings (or thinks she does). Just remember who you are and try not to ever forget it again.
> 
> And never allow our predictions to color what you are doing now. I know you hoped for just that when this started, but you are realizing now how disastrous that would have been.


Don't worry buddy, I'm not going to forget who I am again. If she approaches me wanting to discuss R, I don't know how I'd react in all honesty. I'd do one of two things:

Say no.

Or

Tell her to go spend some time working on herself and come back at a later date, and ask again.

Knowing her as well as I do though, I don't think she will come back begging. She doesn't know how to say "I was wrong" "I made a mistake" - her pride won't allow it.


----------



## Honorbound

When you are at the point that the only thing you feel towards her is mild pity tinged with a bit of contempt (if not outright indifference), then you will be ready to look at what is right for you.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Knowing her as well as I do though, I don't think she will come back begging. She doesn't know how to say "I was wrong" "I made a mistake" - her pride won't allow it.


You'd be surprised what they'll do when the regrets start piling on. That's part of the problem. They will cry and promise everything under the sun. H*ll, at that point you can make them promise anything you wanted - even something ludicrous. It doesn't matter. Unless they have worked out their own demons, then you can't believe anything they say.

They only work on themselves after hitting bottom and going through what we already went through. Them wanting back is just more validation seeking behavior which doesn't force them to better themselves.


----------



## azteca1986

Apologies as the thread has moved on since you posted this.


WantWifeBack said:


> It's a case of finding that fine line between Alpha


Good Alpha



> and *********.


Bad Alpha.

My big worry with the Alpha/Beta debate on these boards is that it becomes Alpha=Things that get you laid, Beta=Things that lose your woman. We need a balance of the good aspects of both these to hold a relationship. 

The difference between (Good) Alpha and A*shole can be illustrated with one word: Leadership

Women may not want to admit it but this is the key quality they want from their SO. Defer too often in a LTR and the Way of the Doormat beckons.

Leadership traits include: Confidence, courage of your convictions, ability to listen, decisiveness, clarity of purpose, clarity of communication, ability to get people to get onboard with new ideas, motivation in others, drive, remain unruffled in a crisis (even if the present crisis is your spouse), humour in adversity...

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea. As you can see none of those traits are gender specific. Leadership is an attractive trait to everyone. 

A*sholes can't be leaders because they don't give a sh!t about anyone but themselves. There is no fine line. It's clear cut.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> When you are at the point that the only thing you feel towards her is mild pity tinged with a bit of contempt (if not outright indifference), then you will be ready to look at what is right for you.


I don't think I'm far off this point now. I'd say I feel indifferent towards her the majority of the time now.



> You'd be surprised what they'll do when the regrets start piling on. That's part of the problem. They will cry and promise everything under the sun. H*ll, at that point you can make them promise anything you wanted - even something ludicrous. It doesn't matter. Unless they have worked out their own demons, then you can't believe anything they say.
> 
> They only work on themselves after hitting bottom and going through what we already went through. Them wanting back is just more validation seeking behavior which doesn't force them to better themselves.


STBXW hates looking "weak". She's been raised to hold her emotions in as much as possible, and to be proud and stubborn. Her mother is the same way. Maybe you're right though, even if I can't see it. 

As far as I know, she hasn't done any work on herself since she left. In fact quite the opposite really - when she left she was taking anti-depressant medication, shortly after she left she stopped taking it. Perhaps I was the one causing her depression, and she mine? Who knows. Either way, given her mental state, I don't think stopping her medication was the right choice. But, it's her life, her decision.


----------



## LostViking

You cannot compete with pride. Pride is a form of fear, and until she gets help and let's go if her pride she will not have any long term meaningful relationships. 

What is so sad is that pride is encouraged in people today. So I don't see her changing unless she has some sort of epiphany.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Apologies as the thread has moved on since you posted this.
> Good Alpha
> 
> Bad Alpha.
> 
> My big worry with the Alpha/Beta debate on these boards is that it becomes Alpha=Things that get you laid, Beta=Things that lose your woman. We need a balance of the good aspects of both these to hold a relationship.
> 
> The difference between (Good) Alpha and A*shole can be illustrated with one word: Leadership
> 
> Women may not want to admit it but this is the key quality they want from their SO. Defer too often in a LTR and the Way of the Doormat beckons.
> 
> Leadership traits include: Confidence, courage of your convictions, ability to listen, decisiveness, clarity of purpose, clarity of communication, ability to get people to get onboard with new ideas, motivation in others, drive, remain unruffled in a crisis (even if the present crisis is your spouse), humour in adversity...
> 
> I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea. As you can see none of those traits are gender specific. Leadership is an attractive trait to everyone.
> 
> A*sholes can't be leaders because they don't give a sh!t about anyone but themselves. There is no fine line. It's clear cut.


My views on being Alpha is not that it gets you laid, it's about being a good man, the best man you can be. Standing up for your beliefs, having integrity, being honest, and protecting the family. For me "Alpha" is something like being the chieftain of a tribe. Being the "king" in your family unit/marriage. I handed my crown to my wife.

Leadership is definitely attractive. Massively so in fact. Look at popular culture - in sports, women always want the team captain. In music, women always want the "front man". Oddly, I can't think of any examples that men want, but I'm not hugely in to pop culture. I think it's a power thing, leadership = power and power = sexy.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> You cannot compete with pride. Pride is a form of fear, and until she gets help and let's go if her pride she will not have any long term meaningful relationships.
> 
> What is so sad is that pride is encouraged in people today. So I don't see her changing unless she has some sort of epiphany.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As far as she is aware, she's already had that epiphany. 

I encourage "being proud of" but "being proud of" and "pride" are entirely different things.

"Being proud of" is acknowledging your achievements and successes and feeling good about them.

"Pride" is a delusional state of mind in which you are infallible.


----------



## Honorbound

That's right. I think Azteca was just warning others that Alpha doesn't mean always putting _your_ needs before those of others... that's an A$$h*le. 

You have the right definition... putting what is _right_ first and leading by example. Proud of you.


----------



## LostViking

Exactly. I feel bad for any guy who gets involved with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Honorbound

LostViking said:


> Exactly. I feel bad for any guy who gets involved with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me too... they are in for a lot of baggage hauling.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> Exactly. I feel bad for any guy who gets involved with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> Me too... they are in for a lot of baggage hauling.


That makes three of us.

She'd be a wonderful woman if she'd face her problems head on instead of burying them. Maybe one day she'll learn that and she'll be happy. I hope so anyway.

She kept telling me how happy she is now, and how people tell her she's so much happier with out me, but I know her well enough to know it's all a front.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> That makes three of us.
> 
> She'd be a wonderful woman if she'd face her problems head on instead of burying them. Maybe one day she'll learn that and she'll be happy. I hope so anyway.
> 
> She kept telling me how happy she is now, and how people tell her she's so much happier with out me, *but I know her well enough to know it's all a front.*


Or maybe I don't? I'll rephrase.

I think I know her well enough to know it's all a front, but in all honesty, I'm starting to wonder how well I know her.


----------



## azteca1986

You know her well enough to know she's:



WantWifeBack said:


> spiteful, selfish, shallow, cruel and immature girl.


----------



## LostViking

Well she's a POS for saying that and telling other people that. So on top of having pride and daddy issues, she's also a blame shifter. If and when you ever do talk to her again, you may want to put on your Alpha cap and tell her you don't appreciate her talking smack about you and telling everybody how better off she is without you. She is responsible for at least 50% of the marital issues. You did not beat her. You did not emotionally or mentally abuse her. The only issue you seem to have had was being needy and suffocating. Other than that? She needs. To keep her fvcking mouth shut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, a pretty uneventful weekend it seems.

My plans for Saturday night got cancelled, so I spent most of the weekend home alone. I occupied myself as best I could, but there came a point where I had to get out, so I went to the cinema with my sister.

A few points came where I felt like I wanted to contact STBXW, but I didn't. I felt pretty low at points. Then when I though of everything she's put me through over the last 6 years, things started to get a little easier. Feeling pretty low today too, I miss my wife and my best friend. I miss talking to her. 

I'm determined not to contact her though, it won't change anything and will just serve to make me feel worse.

In a way I wish I had some solid evidence of an affair, it would make things easier. Instead I have unanswered questions and "what ifs".


----------



## azteca1986

Sorry to hear you're feeling low fella. Your determination to do what's best for you is a good sign. You know breaking NC will set you back. Regaining your sense of self is not linear, so hold tight and ride this out.



WantWifeBack said:


> In a way I wish I had some solid evidence of an affair, it would make things easier. Instead I have unanswered questions and "what ifs".


Your first post has a few of the red flags that you find all over the CWI board. You'd only replace one set of "what ifs" with another. 

Take your focus off her and back to you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Sorry to hear you're feeling low fella. Your determination to do what's best for you is a good sign. You know breaking NC will set you back. Regaining your sense of self is not linear, so hold tight and ride this out.
> 
> Your first post has a few of the red flags that you find all over the CWI board. You'd only replace one set of "what ifs" with another.
> 
> Take your focus off her and back to you.


I have days like this, they pass though - and seem to be getting less frequent which is good.

There were a lot of red flags to be honest, I wish I'd seen them sooner.

-She started becoming more withdrawn.
-Sex became less frequent.
-She started going out more and more and staying with "friends".
-She started texting/facebooking more and didn't like me asking. who she was talking to (even though, if I got a text she'd ask me who it was straightaway).
-Lunch date with ex boyfriend.
-Toxic MIL.
-Reconnected with her father briefly before leaving, who has never liked me.

Then, after she left there were more.

-Dinner date with ex boyfriend.
-Huge amounts of blame shifting.
-ILYBINILWY.
-Ever changing reasons and excuses to not work on our marriage. 
-Secrecy over where she is living.

I'm sure there are others but my memory is failing me at the moment.

Infact, typing it out and looking at it this way, it's almost exactly the same as the first time we separated, and there was an EA involved then.

Anyway, the end result is the same so there's no point dwelling on it.

I'll try to focus on myself a bit more, think I may start up my journalling again too. Re-read NMMNG, things like that.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I Infact, typing it out and looking at it this way, it's almost exactly the same as the first time we separated, and there was an EA involved then.


The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. Sadly on these boards we see time and again how dangerous EA's are to relationships. In the two years before we got married we never once broke up. Of course we argued, but we never entertained the idea that our problems could be solved by separation.

There are two types of behaviour that I can see that pose a real threat to relationship stability (maybe showing my age here). 

1. Keeping in contact with exes. I think this is a bit of a modern phenomena and presented as an indication a healthy break up. But in reality it isn't healthy to have people who have slept with your partner still in contact with them. They have to be booted permanently. This is your boundary, so it's not controlling. My wife was engaged when we first met, so there was no way he would be a part of our life moving forward. I/we behaved perfectly horourably though I'm sure he wouldn't think so. 

2. If you get into a relationship with an attractive woman there are likely beta-orbiters in her life. Men she keeps around her who think they have a chance with her if the 'stars align'. As men we know why they hang around with her. You're in for a difficult time if turns to them for advice. She has to have cast iron boundaries in place or they have to go. Again this is your boundary. If she can't prioritise your relationship adequately or fail to heed your concerns and act on it, you have to walk away.



> Anyway, the end result is the same so there's no point dwelling on it.


Spot on.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. Sadly on these boards we see time and again how dangerous EA's are to relationships. In the two years before we got married we never once broke up. Of course we argued, but we never entertained the idea that our problems could be solved by separation.


This is too true, she did it once, we gave it another shot, it failed. If I were to take her back, how long before she does it again? I can see a long string of failed relationships/one night stands in her future. Every time I consider the path she could take from here, the outcome is always self-destructive. I hate seeing her go down this path, but it's no longer my job to guide her.



> 1. Keeping in contact with exes. I think this is a bit of a modern phenomena and presented as an indication a healthy break up. But in reality it isn't healthy to have people who have slept with your partner still in contact with them. They have to be booted permanently. This is your boundary, so it's not controlling. My wife was engaged when we first met, so there was no way he would be a part of our life moving forward. I/we behaved perfectly horourably though I'm sure he wouldn't think so.


Facebook, it makes it too easy. It facilitates EAs. The ex in question never slept with her, they had one date in high school, but he's still an ex. On the day she met him for lunch, I told her I felt uncomfortable about it and asked her not to go. She went anyway. On that day she was supposed to come back to the house to pick me up, then we were going to visit her mother in hospital. She "lost track of time" and didn't have time to come collect me before visiting hours finished. I was pretty angry on that day. I agree though that keeping in contact with exes is a bad idea. It's no so bad if you're just dating, but in a LTR/marriage, it just can't happen.



> 2. If you get into a relationship with an attractive woman there are likely beta-orbiters in her life. Men she keeps around her who think they have a chance with her if the 'stars align'. As men we know why they hang around with her. You're in for a difficult time if turns to them for advice. She has to have cast iron boundaries in place or they have to go. Again this is your boundary. If she can't prioritise your relationship adequately or fail to heed your concerns and act on it, you have to walk away.


All the times I tried to put boundaries in place, or even voice my concerns about her behaviour, she became irate, called me "jealous and controlling" or gave me the cold shoulder. I should have cut loose back then, but in all honesty, I didn't feel I deserved better. But now I know differently.


----------



## RandomDude

Beta orbiters lol










Sad really


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Beta orbiters lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sad really


Very sad, but you see it all the time. I'm never going to be a beta orbiter, waiting for some alpha's scraps.

STBXW has had several beta orbiters at points in our relationship. It used to p*ss me off, but certain ones were downright laughable too.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> I have days like this, they pass though - and seem to be getting less frequent which is good.
> 
> There were a lot of red flags to be honest, I wish I'd seen them sooner.
> 
> -She started becoming more withdrawn.
> -Sex became less frequent.
> -She started texting/facebooking more and didn't like me asking. who she was talking to (even though, if I got a text she'd ask me who it was straightaway).
> -Toxic MIL.


Wow, those parts seem familiar.



WantWifeBack said:


> Then, after she left there were more.
> 
> -Dinner date with *co-worker*. - _*I went on a dinner date the same night - I had originally asked out STBXW, she told me she already had plans. I had already told the woman that asked me out that I couldn't go and called her back after hearing the STBXW's plans to tell her I had changed my mind*._
> -Huge amounts of blame shifting. *Although mine has been having a really hard time doing this... had to go back 8 years when I was 'grouchy'.*
> -ILYBINILWY.
> -Ever changing reasons and excuses to not work on our marriage.
> -Secrecy over where she is living.


Those are eerily familiar too. She claims to be living with a girlfriend co-worker, but who knows for sure? Not I.

Sorry you have had a tough weekend, WWB. I know the feeling. Stay strong, brother.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Very sad, but you see it all the time. I'm never going to be a beta orbiter, waiting for some alpha's scraps.
> 
> STBXW has had several beta orbiters at points in our relationship. It used to p*ss me off, but certain ones were downright laughable too.


Yeah, I never really had that particular problem. I'm a scary [email protected]@rd to men I don't care for. Although, with the advent of Facebook, this is much tougher these days. If you demand complete transparency you are labeled "jealous" and "controlling", although it seems it is okay for them to know all about your business.

From now on we should all demand equal transparency.


----------



## RandomDude

Heh, once we were married STBXW simply avoided them / cut them out of her life. I never had to tell her to do so, guess she was always naturally loyal, in that way she was a very good wife.

Just not in others... meh

Nonetheless, it is a good standard to have when it comes to women come to think of it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Wow, those parts seem familiar.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are eerily familiar too. She claims to be living with a girlfriend co-worker, but who knows for sure? Not I.
> 
> Sorry you have had a tough weekend, WWB. I know the feeling. Stay strong, brother.


Mine claims to be living with a girlfriend co-worked too, strange coincidence.

The tough times happen buddy, it's all part of the process. I know now that I just need to ride them out and focus on myself though.



> Heh, once we were married STBXW simply avoided them / cut them out of her life. I never had to tell her to do so, guess she was always naturally loyal, in that way she was a very good wife.
> 
> Just not in others... meh
> 
> Nonetheless, it is a good standard to have when it comes to women come to think of it.


My STBXW had them when we first got together, and slowly they lost interest. Then throughout the relationship, she picked up several more through going out with her friends and so on. Again they gradually lost interest. There was one that didn't lose interest, and she had an EA with him, that got physical after we separated. 

She told me that this ex of hers contacted her randomly on facebook (around 2 weeks before she left) but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they'd been talking for a lot longer than that.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Facebook, it makes it too easy. It facilitates EAs. The ex in question never slept with her, they had one date in high school, but he's still an ex. On the day she met him for lunch, I told her I felt uncomfortable about it and asked her not to go. She went anyway. On that day she was supposed to come back to the house to pick me up, then we were going to visit her mother in hospital. She "lost track of time" and didn't have time to come collect me before visiting hours finished. I was pretty angry on that day. I agree though that keeping in contact with exes is a bad idea. It's no so bad if you're just dating, but in a LTR/marriage, it just can't happen.


I dislike the term "uncomfortable". I much prefer Conrad's "I'm not okay with you going on a lunch date without me". If it's innocent, friends catching up there's no reason for you to not go along too. If you're not welcome, if she insists on spending alone time with other men, well the problem is clear.



> All the times I tried to put boundaries in place, or even voice my concerns about her behaviour, she became irate, called me "jealous and controlling" or gave me the cold shoulder. I should have cut loose back then, but in all honesty, I didn't feel I deserved better. But now I know differently.


Boundaries are for ourselves; we state explicitly what we are willing to put up with. You can't enforce boundaries on other people. You can't control them.

I can illustrate this from an example in my own life:
This summer I pulled the plug on my relationship with my only sibling. Some people said that I had given him an ultimatum. They were wrong. 

"If you do x, we are done. Do you understand?"

I didn't tell him he couldn't do x. I suggested he pick another letter of the alphabet. I told him with precision and clarity what *I *would do if he chose x. He chose x. We are done. The End. 

As Honorbound has said, boundaries in a LTR have to be mutual and equal. Equal transparency. If we both abide by the same rules, neither party can be more "controlling" than the other. We both agreed to give up some single-lfe freedoms when we entered into our LTR.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> There was one that didn't lose interest, and she had an EA with him, that got physical after we separated.


So predictable.


----------



## RandomDude

Well, the next time you'll know exactly what to do in that situation 

Ne ways on the topic of jealousy and controlling behaviour what I found interesting is that women do want their men to be protective of them, to cherish them as their own.

I never wanted to be jealous or controlling hence I adopted a very naive standpoint in regards to open relationships - the way I saw it, if I can't control one's fidelity I want to control her infidelity, so in the end I was ironically controlling after all. 

My wife would have nothing to do with it however, rejected every proposal I made in regards to sharing her and me having other women. It made her feel unwanted, undesired, unloved. One of my major mistakes in my relationship. So put it this way; when a woman loves you, she wants you to only want her for yourself.

Boundaries is a win/win.


----------



## Honorbound

azteca1986 said:


> I dislike the term "uncomfortable". I much prefer Conrad's "I'm not okay with you going on a lunch date without me". If it's innocent, friends catching up there's no reason for you to not go along too. If you're not welcome, if she insists on spending alone time with other men, well the problem is clear.
> 
> Boundaries are for ourselves; we state explicitly what we are willing to put up with. You can't enforce boundaries on other people. You can't control them.
> 
> I can illustrate this from an example in my own life:
> This summer I pulled the plug on my relationship with my only sibling. Some people said that I had given him an ultimatum. They were wrong.
> 
> "If you do x, we are done. Do you understand?"
> 
> I didn't tell him he couldn't do x. I suggested he pick another letter of the alphabet. I told him with precision and clarity what *I *would do if he chose x. He chose x. We are done. The End.
> 
> As Honorbound has said, boundaries in a LTR have to be mutual and equal. Equal transparency. If we both abide by the same rules, neither party can be more "controlling" than the other. We both agreed to give up some single-lfe freedoms when we entered into our LTR.


I have to agree with this. My STBXW and I had a rule we made together when we first started going out. No going to bars/clubs without the other. It just causes too many problems. While several of her family and girlfriends called me 'controlling' for it when they wanted a 'girls night out', she didn't want me having a 'guys night out' at one either. Meanwhile her family and friends didn't see her being able to as a double standard at all.

Going to have to borrow RandomDude's phrase here... Meh. I personally don't see a problem with having such rules in place to avoid hurt and lack of trust. We all know how both men and women behave in bars. It does go both ways.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I have to agree with this. My STBXW and I had a rule we made together when we first started going out. No going to bars/clubs without the other. It just causes too many problems. While several of her family and girlfriends called me 'controlling' for it when they wanted a 'girls night out', she didn't want me having a 'guys night out' at one either. Meanwhile her family and friends didn't see her being able to as a double standard at all.
> 
> Going to have to borrow RandomDude's phrase here... Meh. I personally don't see a problem with having such rules in place to avoid hurt and lack of trust. We all know how both men and women behave in bars. It does go both ways.


See, if I had tried to enforce such a rule, I would have been told I was being jealous and controlling, and insecure. Yet she didn't like me going out with the guys... double standards again.

I feel sad to have lost her, but sometimes I'm so happy I don't have to put up with her BS anymore.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> See, if I had tried to enforce such a rule, I would have been told I was being jealous and controlling, and insecure. Yet she didn't like me going out with the guys... double standards again.


Honorbounds scenario is absolutely healthy for a married couple. Getting married or into an exclusive LTR means giving up 'single' pastimes. GNO's to a restaurant or a film are fine. Bars without your SO, no way. 

"I'm not okay with an evening where the rest of the world's male population are welcome, but I'm not"

How could you be okay with that? Of course you'll be insecure. A GNO to a bar or a club can't do anything but that. We're men. We know how men act in those environments. SO's are supposed to allay your fears not contribute to them.



> I feel sad to have lost her, but sometimes I'm so happy I don't have to put up with her BS anymore.


I'm glad you see it as BS, because double standards are BS.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Honorbounds scenario is absolutely healthy for a married couple. Getting married or into an exclusive LTR means giving up 'single' pastimes. GNO's to a restaurant or a film are fine. Bars without your SO, no way.
> 
> "I'm not okay with an evening where the rest of the world's male population are welcome, but I'm not"
> 
> How could you be okay with that? Of course you'll be insecure. A GNO to a bar or a club can't do anything but that. We're men. We know how men act in those environments. SO's are supposed to allay your fears not contribute to them.
> 
> I'm glad you see it as BS, because double standards are BS.


They are supposed to allay your fears, mine didn't. She fed them, and as such reinforced my fearful behaviour, and it just cycled from there.

Today I'm feeling like I want to talk to her still, just to check in and see if she's ok. I know it's a bad idea though, and I probably shouldn't. It's my brother in-law's birthday today and it doesn't help that he has been speaking to me since I wished him a happy birthday this morning (we were friends before I met STBXW).


----------



## Honorbound

If she checks in with you, okay. Otherwise, you'll just be feeding her ego... you don't want that.

(Yes, I know you know that)


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> If she checks in with you, okay. Otherwise, you'll just be feeding her ego... you don't want that.
> 
> (Yes, I know you know that)


Yeah, no ego boosts from me. She doesn't deserve them from me.

Guess I'm just feeling sad at this whole situation today, it really sucks to have failed in my marriage so early. I loved her so much... urgh. Really wanted to settle with her, have kids, the whole lot.

Now I'm back to finding that woman again.


----------



## LostViking

That woman exists only in your mind. The real thing does not exist. 

That is why you cannot move on....why you are stuck.

Free your mind and your azz will follow.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LostViking said:


> That woman exists only in your mind. The real thing does not exist.
> 
> That is why you cannot move on....why you are stuck.
> 
> Free your mind and your azz will follow.


I know that she doesn't exist. I know the idealised version of her is of my own creation. Just having a bit of a bad day today! The last time we spoke (a week ago) she seemed genuinely sad about what had happened between us, but "too much has been said and done" for an R to happen. 

I'll just persevere with the no contact, talking to her, contacting her in any way, isn't going to help me. I'll gain nothing from it, so why bother? If she contacts me at some point, I'll evaluate whether I should reply or not.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I don't know why the urge to contact her is so strong today! 

Why do I put myself through this mental and emotional anguish? She isn't worth my time or attention, yet I want to give her it.

And to what end? I'll get nothing from it.

I really wish I understood myself better.


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## Honorbound

I think you not getting out like you wanted this weekend might have set you back a bit. It's okay. Stay strong.

Could also be a bit of, "Look how good I am doing without you, b****!". It doesn't matter. She'll either figure that out on her own, or not... 

...the point is when you really are doing good without her you won't care anymore.


----------



## LongWalk

She is not going to be the woman in your life. How long does it take to get divorced?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I think you not getting out like you wanted this weekend might have set you back a bit. It's okay. Stay strong.
> 
> Could also be a bit of, "Look how good I am doing without you, b****!". It doesn't matter. She'll either figure that out on her own, or not...
> 
> ...the point is when you really are doing good without her you won't care anymore.


Yeah maybe it does have something to do with not getting out this weekend, coupled with speaking to her brother earlier. I'm going to stay strong, just really miss her today. It's days like today that I feel like I'm not ready to let it all go, not ready to give up on my vows, but in reality I haven't given up, I've just been stripped of the right to uphold them. I need to keep reminding myself of this.

I still can't imagine being with any other woman. Sexually or emotionally.

I don't think it's a case of "Look how awesome I'm doing", cause frankly, whether I was having the time of my life, or lying in a gutter minutes from death, I think it would make little difference to her.

I'm looking forward to consistently doing good, rather than doing good for a while and then suffering a set back.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> She is not going to be the woman in your life. How long does it take to get divorced?


I'm honestly not sure how long it takes to get divorced. I know we can't file until May. I'm not sure beyond that, but if it's a "no fault" divorce on grounds of irreconcilable differences, I believe it takes two years from filing to be finalised!


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> *She is not going to be the woman in your life.*


I keep telling myself this, and most of the time I believe it. Not today though.


----------



## woosaa

WWB I feel some of that pain my friend. You have to try to keep my mind straight and stay on the positive path you are on. I think some of your anguish is a combination of your spouse not contacting you (even though she is in the wrong) and that you are doing good, but she is not seeing your improvements. You need to keep doing those improvements for you. Try to take her out of the equation. 

All easier said then done. You know WWB i rarely write in my thread anymore because whenever you are down im feeling down for some reason at the same time. My wife doesnt call at all and I have our daughter for a month at the moment. This upsets me, but I just try to tell myself it is her loss. I do not share pics or anything with her because she doesnt care (through her actions). 

You need to just keep doing what you are doing. One day she may apologize or maybe not. F**k it, but trust you will be better off in the future. These days do suck, but you and I both know that it will pass. Just refrain from making any text or calls. It will do no good to unload on her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> WWB I feel some of that pain my friend. You have to try to keep my mind straight and stay on the positive path you are on. I think some of your anguish is a combination of your spouse not contacting you (even though she is in the wrong) and that you are doing good, but she is not seeing your improvements. You need to keep doing those improvements for you. Try to take her out of the equation.
> 
> All easier said then done. You know WWB i rarely write in my thread anymore because whenever you are down im feeling down for some reason at the same time. My wife doesnt call at all and I have our daughter for a month at the moment. This upsets me, but I just try to tell myself it is her loss. I do not share pics or anything with her because she doesnt care (through her actions).
> 
> You need to just keep doing what you are doing. One day she may apologize or maybe not. F**k it, but trust you will be better off in the future. These days do suck, but you and I both know that it will pass. Just refrain from making any text or calls. It will do no good to unload on her.


Yeah I tried my best to keep busy last night and stay positive, and I didn't make any contact with her which I'm pleased about. You're probably right about the source of my anguish, I haven't really considered the reasons behind it. Maybe on some level I want her to recognise my progress, maybe that's why I want to contact her, to demonstrate it. I know whatever my actions are though she's blind to them, and my words fall on deaf ears.

I think I'm feeling a little better today, but in all honesty I didn't sleep well so I'm pretty tired today, I'll have a clearer idea once I'm more awake! It's upsetting how you can go from being the most important person in someones life, to a stranger with a common past in such a short space of time. 

I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, I have no other option! The bad days pass, they always do. Just gotta ride it out .


----------



## azteca1986

SHE was always the most important person in her life mate.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> SHE was always the most important person in her life mate.


Yeah, that's true, and that's the way it should be right?

I made her the most important person in my life, but it should have been me all along.

Live and learn .

Think I'm struggling at the moment because I'm really starting to miss the intimacy and sex now, more so than before.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, that's true, and that's the way it should be right?
> 
> I made her the most important person in my life, but it should have been me all along.
> 
> Live and learn .


It's supposed the be a reciprocal agreement. Take the "jealousy" issue. You tell her that you don't trust the intentions of beta-orbiter no.1. You trust her. You don't trust him. She trusts your judgement. She responds to your concerns and boots him immediately. That's healthy. That's the way it works.

What doesn't work is if you both have her as the most important person. Then you're in "putting her on a pedestal" territory. This is not in your best interests, which is where you have to look after yourself.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.



> Think I'm struggling at the moment because I'm really starting to miss the intimacy and sex now, more so than before.


Of course, but to get sex and intimacy from her you have to enter into an imbalanced relationship, as these are the only ones she's known.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> It's supposed the be a reciprocal agreement. Take the "jealousy" issue. You tell her that you don't trust the intentions of beta-orbiter no.1. You trust her. You don't trust him. She trusts your judgement. She responds to your concerns and boots him immediately. That's healthy. That's the way it works.
> 
> What doesn't work is if you both have her as the most important person. Then you're in "putting her on a pedestal" territory. This is not in your best interests, which is where you have to look after yourself.
> 
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> 
> Of course, but to get sex and intimacy from her you have to enter into an imbalanced relationship, as these are the only ones she's known.


See, in the past when I explained to her that I didn't trust beta orbiter no.1's intentions, she would get defensive, and angry, and act hurt because she felt I didn't trust her. I told her time and time again that it wasn't her I didn't trust, it was the beta orbiter. I've seen drunk guys try to move in for a kiss on her before, I've seen guys hit on her, flirt etc. I don't trust 90% of the male population where alcohol is involved.

She was on a pedestal, but I've smashed it out from under her (that sounds a bit dirty ). I've rebuilt a pedestal for myself now, and it's taller than the one she was stood on.

She's entitled. I hate the culture of entitlement in the western world. So many women think that because they are female they can do whatever they like, if a man questions it, there's always some form of backlash. "You're jealous and controlling" is common. I saw a woman post something on facebook once to her boyfriend, it said "I have the vagina, I make the rules". Entitled princesses .

The rise of feminism has made men subservient to women. Note I said feminism, and not equality, because I believe the scales are tipped in the favour of females in most cases. 

I wasn't alive when the world was rife with sexist inequality, so I don't know much about how it was then, but to me it seems now that society and the media has brainwashed the vast majority of men to believe that women are superior. Also with the increasing divorce rate and the number of single mothers, lots of young men are being raised by women, that cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The end result is a beta doormat.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I don't mean to cause offence to any female posters by the way.

I wasn't generalising women as a whole, just the subset of women represented by entitled princesses .


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> See, in the past when I explained to her that I didn't trust beta orbiter no.1's intentions, she would get defensive, and angry, and act hurt because she felt I didn't trust her. I told her time and time again that it wasn't her I didn't trust, it was the beta orbiter. I've seen drunk guys try to move in for a kiss on her before, I've seen guys hit on her, flirt etc. I don't trust 90% of the male population where alcohol is involved.
> 
> She was on a pedestal, but I've smashed it out from under her (that sounds a bit dirty ). I've rebuilt a pedestal for myself now, and it's taller than the one she was stood on.
> 
> She's entitled. I hate the culture of entitlement in the western world. So many women think that because they are female they can do whatever they like, if a man questions it, there's always some form of backlash. "You're jealous and controlling" is common. I saw a woman post something on facebook once to her boyfriend, it said "I have the vagina, I make the rules". Entitled princesses .
> 
> The rise of feminism has made men subservient to women. Note I said feminism, and not equality, because I believe the scales are tipped in the favour of females in most cases.
> 
> I wasn't alive when the world was rife with sexist inequality, so I don't know much about how it was then, but to me it seems now that society and the media has brainwashed the vast majority of men to believe that women are superior. Also with the increasing divorce rate and the number of single mothers, lots of young men are being raised by women, that cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The end result is a beta doormat.


I have to agree with this. In today's society the vast majority of men are _taught_ to be Beta's. Just think about how many female teachers you had in school versus male ones. Here in the US women make up probably more than 75% (and I am being generous here - closer to 95% in my case) of teachers. I'm not sure of the exact number, but - having been in multiple school systems growing up as a military brat - I can attest that, in my sample size anyway, it is a very large percentage. Couple that with all of the books, movies, and (God forbid) daytime soaps where the 'ideal' man is shown to be a Beta doormat whenever dealing with a woman - only Alpha when dealing with other men - and the message is even more clear. The ladies can chime in here if they wish, but I don't think that is actually what they want when all is said and done either. Just reading almost any thread in these forums should be proof enough of that.

I love women. Love everything about them... but I think they too are victims of having a one sided message continually fed to them as they mature. It seems to me that the whole feminism movement was less about the equality they professed than about wielding the big end of the stick in retribution. It doesn't work that way. As a species both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other... it is how we evolved. Trying to make it any other way is a recipe for loneliness and a lifetime of being incomplete for both sexes.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> See, in the past when I explained to her that I didn't trust beta orbiter no.1's intentions, she would get defensive, and angry, and act hurt because she felt I didn't trust her. I told her time and time again that it wasn't her I didn't trust, it was the beta orbiter. I've seen drunk guys try to move in for a kiss on her before, I've seen guys hit on her, flirt etc. I don't trust 90% of the male population where alcohol is involved.


The alcohol is not a factor, it just emboldens them. Their intentions are clear. Don't trust the majority of the male population with your partner. As someone memorably said on here - No matter how unattractive your wife is, there'll always be some clown willing to sleep with her. A certain amount of jealousy is healthy. You can't be complacent about your SO. As good men we have to be aware of our environment. As men we need to recognise the difference between threats and feeling threatened. Of course you need to find a partner that doesn't constantly need to find validation from other men.

There's only been one time someone has hit on my wife right in front of me and that was only because my dad said it would be amusing (it was).



> She was on a pedestal, but I've smashed it out from under her (that sounds a bit dirty ). I've rebuilt a pedestal for myself now, and it's taller than the one she was stood on.


Good and bad here. Stop measuring yourself against her. Your own standards and worth are the only factor. 



> She's entitled. I hate the culture of entitlement in the western world. So many women think that because they are female they can do whatever they like, if a man questions it, there's always some form of backlash. "You're jealous and controlling" is common. I saw a woman post something on facebook once to her boyfriend, it said "I have the vagina, I make the rules". Entitled princesses .


The culture of entitlement isn't gender specific, but it is a sign of the times.



> The rise of feminism has made men subservient to women. Note I said feminism, and not equality, because I believe the scales are tipped in the favour of females in most cases.


I also believe absolutely in equality (gender, race, sexual preference). Feminism, however, falls down in the bedroom. Making sweet love together is great and necessary. But, if a woman wants to be f*cked, she requires a man's dominance. This is the natural order of things  



> I wasn't alive when the world was rife with sexist inequality, so I don't know much about how it was then, but to me it seems now that society and the media has brainwashed the vast majority of men to believe that women are superior. Also with the increasing divorce rate and the number of single mothers, lots of young men are being raised by women, that cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The end result is a beta doormat.


Agree with all of this, though absent father's with no sense of responsibilty have played a role too. Women are unceasing marrying boys instead of men and then divorcing them when they find out that a deferential, subservient spouse is not what they actually want.

EDIT: I'm older than you, but not _that_ old  I just had the good fortune to live in Aisa for the last fifteen years and missed out on all the ultra feminist propaganda.


----------



## azteca1986

Good post Honorbound.


Honorbound said:


> I love women. Love everything about them... but I think they too are victims of having a one sided message continually fed to them as they mature. It seems to me that the whole feminism movement was less about the equality they professed than about wielding the big end of the stick in retribution.


I do get the impression that the young men of today (under 30's) are paying for the 'sins of their fathers'. 



> It doesn't work that way. As a species both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other... it is how we evolved. Trying to make it any other way is a recipe for loneliness and a lifetime of being incomplete for both sexes.


Absolutely. It's a complemnetary skill set that only thrives with true equality.


----------



## ReGroup

Honorbound said:


> I have to agree with this. In today's society the vast majority of men are _taught_ to be Beta's. Just think about how many female teachers you had in school versus male ones. Here in the US women make up probably more than 75% (and I am being generous here - closer to 95% in my case) of teachers. I'm not sure of the exact number, but - having been in multiple school systems growing up as a military brat - I can attest that, in my sample size anyway, it is a very large percentage. Couple that with all of the books, movies, and (God forbid) daytime soaps where the 'ideal' man is shown to be a Beta doormat whenever dealing with a woman - only Alpha when dealing with other men - and the message is even more clear. The ladies can chime in here if they wish, but I don't think that is actually what they want when all is said and done either. Just reading almost any thread in these forums should be proof enough of that.
> 
> I love women. Love everything about them... but I think they too are victims of having a one sided message continually fed to them as they mature. It seems to me that the whole feminism movement was less about the equality they professed than about wielding the big end of the stick in retribution. It doesn't work that way. As a species both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other... it is how we evolved. Trying to make it any other way is a recipe for loneliness and a lifetime of being incomplete for both sexes.


It's what they "think" they want.

I heard the same thing over and over again this Thanksgiving from female relatives and friends: Women do not want doormats, guys who won't lead, and who are indecisive. Those mannerisms are attraction killers.

Those are the men who get chewed up and spit out.

But there needs to be a balance. Can't be too Alpha all the time.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html

Read the link... It's a good start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I have to agree with this. In today's society the vast majority of men are _taught_ to be Beta's. Just think about how many female teachers you had in school versus male ones. Here in the US women make up probably more than 75% (and I am being generous here - closer to 95% in my case) of teachers. I'm not sure of the exact number, but - having been in multiple school systems growing up as a military brat - I can attest that, in my sample size anyway, it is a very large percentage. Couple that with all of the books, movies, and (God forbid) daytime soaps where the 'ideal' man is shown to be a Beta doormat whenever dealing with a woman - only Alpha when dealing with other men - and the message is even more clear. The ladies can chime in here if they wish, but I don't think that is actually what they want when all is said and done either. Just reading almost any thread in these forums should be proof enough of that.
> 
> I love women. Love everything about them... but I think they too are victims of having a one sided message continually fed to them as they mature. It seems to me that the whole feminism movement was less about the equality they professed than about wielding the big end of the stick in retribution. It doesn't work that way. As a species both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other... it is how we evolved. Trying to make it any other way is a recipe for loneliness and a lifetime of being incomplete for both sexes.


It's sad that society and the media preach this kind of behaviour. I wish I'd figured that out sooner. A man needs to be an alpha, or his mate will get bored and leave or stray. That's pretty much all there is to it. Won't be making that mistake again!



> The alcohol is not a factor, it just emboldens them. Their intentions are clear. Don't trust the majority of the male population with your partner.


Very true, I stand corrected .

I'm on day 8 of no contact now, so far the record is 14 days. Hoping that will be well and truly smashed. I do think she'll contact me again some day, potentially over Christmas. I guess we'll see.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> It's what they "think" they want.
> 
> I heard the same thing over and over again this Thanksgiving from female relatives and friends: Women do not want doormats, guys who won't lead, and who are indecisive. Those mannerisms are attraction killers.
> 
> Those are the men who get chewed up and spit out.
> 
> But there needs to be a balance. Can't be too Alpha all the time.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html
> 
> Read the link... It's a good start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess that depends on your definition of Alpha . But, I get what you're saying.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I guess that depends on your definition of Alpha . But, I get what you're saying.


That is an excellent thread. Read it all, but pay particular attention to the posts by BigBadWolf. His posts illustrate how nuanced being Alpha/A Man is.


----------



## Honorbound

ReGroup said:


> It's what they "think" they want.
> 
> I heard the same thing over and over again this Thanksgiving from female relatives and friends: Women do not want doormats, guys who won't lead, and who are indecisive. Those mannerisms are attraction killers.
> 
> Those are the men who get chewed up and spit out.
> 
> But there needs to be a balance. Can't be too Alpha all the time.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html
> 
> Read the link... It's a good start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Heh, good link. I like reading Conrad's posts. Pretty sharp fellow.

All of that is true. It also needs to be stated that even if you do have the perfect Alpha/Beta balance, you can still lose her. The difference being that you then _know_ the problem is inherent in _them_... not you.


----------



## ReGroup

Honorbound said:


> Heh, good link. I like reading Conrad's posts. Pretty sharp fellow.
> 
> All of that is true. It also needs to be stated that even if you do have the perfect Alpha/Beta balance, you can still lose her. The difference being that you then _know_ the problem is inherent in _them_... not you.


Conrad will be back soon... Class will be in session.

Bound, that's right. Sometimes things fall apart no matter what. A man who is right with himself, will dust himself off and call "next!".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> Conrad will be back soon... Class will be in session.
> 
> Bound, that's right. Sometimes things fall apart no matter what. A man who is right with himself, will dust himself off and call "next!".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And this is exactly what I'm trying to do... just need to carry on getting right with myself!


----------



## Chaparral

WantWifeBack said:


> I know that she doesn't exist. I know the idealised version of her is of my own creation. Just having a bit of a bad day today! The last time we spoke (a week ago) she seemed genuinely sad about what had happened between us, but "too much has been said and done" for an R to happen.
> 
> I'll just persevere with the no contact, talking to her, contacting her in any way, isn't going to help me. I'll gain nothing from it, so why bother? If she contacts me at some point, I'll evaluate whether I should reply or not.


Your wife has been in an affair since before this all started. You don't even know who she lives with right? She started keeping her self shaved all of a sudden and it wasn't for you.

Its hard to tell when it really started. Did you ever go back and check all the phone/text records?

The reason she keeps pulling you back in every once in a while is because things aren't going quite as well as they should be with her other man. If the om has half a brain, he knows all about you. That mans he knows she is a cheater. He knows he would be a fool to think something long term will last with her. She knows he's holding back. If she's not living with him, its probably because he is married. Why haven't you done anything to find out who it is?

The odds a long term relationship will last between two cheaters 3 out of 100. Their relationship can't be that good.

Find out where she lives, who her lover is and qut letting her play you. You will probaly be shocked at what she has picked over you. You are a good person, your wife, unfortunately due to her family, is a basket case.

Get the books linked to in my signature now and also investigate so you will be able to set yourself free.

I have read and posted on over a thousand threads in the cwi section. It was obvious from the beginning of your thread she had found a new man.

Good luck and prayers.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chaparral said:


> Your wife has been in an affair since before this all started. You don't even know who she lives with right? She started keeping her self shaved all of a sudden and it wasn't for you.
> 
> Its hard to tell when it really started. Did you ever go back and check all the phone/text records?
> 
> The reason she keeps pulling you back in every once in a while is because things aren't going quite as well as they should be with her other man. If the om has half a brain, he knows all about you. That mans he knows she is a cheater. He knows he would be a fool to think something long term will last with her. She knows he's holding back. If she's not living with him, its probably because he is married. Why haven't you done anything to find out who it is?
> 
> The odds a long term relationship will last between two cheaters 3 out of 100. Their relationship can't be that good.
> 
> Find out where she lives, who her lover is and qut letting her play you. You will probaly be shocked at what she has picked over you. You are a good person, your wife, unfortunately due to her family, is a basket case.
> 
> Get the books linked to in my signature now and also investigate so you will be able to set yourself free.
> 
> I have read and posted on over a thousand threads in the cwi section. It was obvious from the beginning of your thread she had found a new man.
> 
> Good luck and prayers.


Sadly it became more and more obvious to me too Chaparral.

She always kept herself shaved, but after she left she started keeping herself waxed. She said it was for her, to make her "feel sexy" but I know that's BS.

I didn't check the phone or texting records because I didn't have access to her account. Our phone accounts were always separate. I could have accessed her phone easily enough though, but by the time I realised she'd already gone.

I'm not going to let her pull me back in any more, she's made her bed and now she can lay in it. The OM probably does have half a brain. 

Shortly after she left she started saying that she wanted to have kids etc, I know that her facebook OM has a son from a previous relationship, but I have no evidence of who it is. Not that it even matters. The end result is the same, we won't be reconciling, so that's that really. I can't be bothered to waste my time and energy unraveling the mystery of her suspected infidelity. If she has OM, he's welcome to her. Not only is she an emotional disease, but she now carries a physical disease.

If it is the OM I suspect, then I am shocked at what she picked over me. If it is him, she's downgraded. Not my problem anymore though . 

The pattern certainly does fit though.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Re-read the first ten pages or so of my thread. 

My determination has been renewed. Also it's amazing to see how far I've come from way back then. 

She can f*ck off .

Plenty of other women out there!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I've been making an effort to write in my journal again lately as I've been having some ups and downs.

I started out just writing about my day, and how I was feeling about the whole STBXW situation. It started out quite sad, about how I missed her, but that it was too late now etc.

Then something happened, I started thinking about everything she's put me through, every little clue that she left me for OM, all the false promises and our broken vows.

I became enraged, and my journal entry took a bit of a turn. I wrote some pretty horrible things in there about my STBXW, and it's sad that I meant them. A few choice phrases were:

"You are the lowest of the low. You aren't even worthy of sitting at my feet, much less being my wife."

"I don't wish you bliss and happiness, all I wish is that you get what you deserve, whatever that may be. It's not up to me to decide."

"You're broken, completely headf*cked, and if you don't get yourself together, all I see in your future is a string of failed relationships, and misery."

I don't like being angry, I really don't, but last night, I let the anger flow and I feel better for it.

I briefly considered drafting an email to STBXW telling her exactly what I think of her. Obviously I didn't, because it would serve no purpose and would just be me feeling victimised, and lashing out as a persecutor.

I'm still feeling quite angry today, I hope the anger subsides. I have absolutely no desire to waste my energy being angry at her. Indifference is what I strive for.


----------



## azteca1986

It's probably good to get that out, but don't make this a ritual. Hatred is a bond that keeps you attached to her. It's just the other side of the coin of Love.

Learn to stop expending energy and time, your most valuable resources, on someone so unworthy. 

What did you learn about yourself?


----------



## helolover

WWB, journaling is a good tool. I have used it extensively. That's where all my letters to STBX are too. I never sent them. No need, but my anger allowed me to see areas where I was blaming instead of taking responsibility and some other things I needed to work on and still do.

A note about anger. You're going to feel a lot of it. I think this is ok and you need to feel it. You can't skip it and its one of the abandonment stages. You can't skip the grieving of your lost relationship and all of the things that went with it (friendship, love, hopes, dreams, goals, etc..) It's a big deal. Keep going to IC, keep journaling. You are going to write some hateful stuff. That's cool - you own what you feel. Do not live by your emotions and feelings. Feelings are not your mandates. Feel them, recognize them, and let them pass. Abandonment is in its own class of rejection. It's almost easier when someone you love dies. In that case, its the Grim Reaper that took them. Everyone mourns their loss. In abandonment, your loved one left you standing and has chosen not to be with you anymore and is maybe investing their love and attention on someone else. That rejection is very painful and very personal. 

A very good resource is: Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. It's helped me and I recommend it to any left behind spouse. 

Keep invest in yourself. Keep reading. Keep learning.


----------



## LongWalk

Do you know about her cheating?


----------



## Chaparral

How close is your wife journey to the one her mother took? I'm wondering if she is just following in her mothers footsteps.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> It's probably good to get that out, but don't make this a ritual. Hatred is a bond that keeps you attached to her. It's just the other side of the coin of Love.
> 
> Learn to stop expending energy and time, your most valuable resources, on someone so unworthy.
> 
> What did you learn about yourself?


I think hatred is a pretty strong word, I don't _hate_ STBXW, just dislike her. When I write my journal, I don't think about what I write before I pen it down, I just write exactly what I've felt, and quite often what I feel at the time of writing. As I said above, indifference is what I strive for. I do still have some attachment to STBXW, which is to be expected after 6 years together. It's definitely fading though, but I'm yet to go an entire day without thinking of her.

When you ask what I've learned about myself, can you be more specific? Is that in general throughout this entire process?



> WWB, journaling is a good tool. I have used it extensively. That's where all my letters to STBX are too. I never sent them. No need, but my anger allowed me to see areas where I was blaming instead of taking responsibility and some other things I needed to work on and still do.
> 
> A note about anger. You're going to feel a lot of it. I think this is ok and you need to feel it. You can't skip it and its one of the abandonment stages. You can't skip the grieving of your lost relationship and all of the things that went with it (friendship, love, hopes, dreams, goals, etc..) It's a big deal. Keep going to IC, keep journaling. You are going to write some hateful stuff. That's cool - you own what you feel. Do not live by your emotions and feelings. Feelings are not your mandates. Feel them, recognize them, and let them pass. Abandonment is in its own class of rejection. It's almost easier when someone you love dies. In that case, its the Grim Reaper that took them. Everyone mourns their loss. In abandonment, your loved one left you standing and has chosen not to be with you anymore and is maybe investing their love and attention on someone else. That rejection is very painful and very personal.
> 
> A very good resource is: Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. It's helped me and I recommend it to any left behind spouse.
> 
> Keep invest in yourself. Keep reading. Keep learning.


I thought I'd already been through the anger stage, I guess not. I understand that it's natural, and as my self-esteem grows and my self-respect, I think the anger comes with that. I can't think of a good way to describe what I mean other than "what gives her the right to trample all over my feelings?". I know that the _logical_ answer to this is, she's a human being and she has every right to do what makes her happy. But what I _feel_ for myself, is different.

The anger is good at the moment, because it fuels my determination, but it also saps my energy and puts her in my thoughts more often than I'd like. I'll keep journalling, but eventually I'll run out of things to say I'm sure. 

I do want the anger to stop however, and I'm sure that it will. I'm not constantly angry, I just have times when I start thinking of her, and I get angry and just say to myself "You know what, WWB? F*ck her."

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread how it would be easier if she was taken from me, rather than choosing to abandon me. Knowing that she _chose_ to do this makes it a lot more difficult. 

I'll have a look in to that book you suggested, I'm all for reading anything that could be of use.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Do you know about her cheating?


It's not confirmed, but it's obvious. 

I think that's the source of my anger right now. For so long I didn't want to believe it, and when I did I told myself "But you don't *know* that for sure". I didn't want to think so badly of her, but that time has past. I'm truly seeing it all for what it is now, and if I'm honest I'd file for divorce today if that were an option.

But, on reflection of her behaviour, and her actions, it's plain to see. As far as I am concerned, she was unfaithful, whether physically or emotionally I don't know, but I know that she was unfaithful. 

I'm angry at her betrayal. Furious at times if I'm honest.

I can now safely say, that there is absolutely zero chance of me taking her back if she reaches out to R (I don't think she will anyway). I don't want a person capable of what she has done in my life in any capacity, let alone as a wife.



> How close is your wife journey to the one her mother took? I'm wondering if she is just following in her mothers footsteps.


This is a tough one to answer as I know very little about STBXW's life these days, but I have seen some similarities.

On a path of self-destruction? Check.
Selfish and immature? Check.
Failed marriage at a young age? Check.
Self-centered? Check.
Blame-shifting and extreme hostility? Check.

The first time we separated as a result of her EA, her father contacted me (even though he dislikes me) to wish me well. I told him about her EA and he told me that her mother did the same thing when they split up.

A month or so ago, STBXW told me she's been drinking a lot more than usual, and has even started drinking a glass of wine or two on weeknights. Her mother is an alcoholic.

It's hard to compare this to her mother too, as I didn't know her mother when she was STBXW's age, but STBXW believes she is superior to almost everyone. We lived with my father, and he doesn't live in a very nice house, or in a very nice area. She always used to say how she was "better than this" and "didn't fit in with all of these common people". I know her mother believes she is a wonderful person and a wonderful mother, but I don't know if she feels "superior" to others.

Her father on the other hand, is extremely self-absorbed and looks down on everyone, talks down to everyone, and believes himself to be vastly superior to everyone. In reality all he does is make backhanded compliments and snide remarks to make people feel small, thus making himself feel superior. As I got to know him more, I didn't tolerate his comments, and always turned them around on him. I would say that's why he didn't like me, but in reality it was because I'm not rich, have had employment issues in the past and because of my "common" family. I was never good enough for his daughter, which is ironic considering he was mostly absent from her life.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I think hatred is a pretty strong word, I don't _hate_ STBXW, just dislike her. When I write my journal, I don't think about what I write before I pen it down, I just write exactly what I've felt, and quite often what I feel at the time of writing. As I said above, indifference is what I strive for. I do still have some attachment to STBXW, which is to be expected after 6 years together. It's definitely fading though, but I'm yet to go an entire day without thinking of her.


helolover's input is more valuable than mine; this is a necessary part of the grieving process.



> When you ask what I've learned about myself, can you be more specific? Is that in general throughout this entire process?


Perhaps my question was misguided. It's good to vent and maybe it's asking too much to gain insight from it.



> I can't think of a good way to describe what I mean other than "what gives her the right to trample all over my feelings?". I know that the _logical_ answer to this is, she's a human being and she has every right to do what makes her happy. But what I _feel_ for myself, is different.


The simple answer is because you allow it. No one has the right to treat you badly.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> helolover's input is more valuable than mine; this is a necessary part of the grieving process.
> 
> Perhaps my question was misguided. It's good to vent and maybe it's asking too much to gain insight from it.
> 
> The simple answer is because you allow it. No one has the right to treat you badly.


I did gain some insight from my venting, that she only treated me the way she did because I allowed it. As for behaving the way she did, only she could answer that because chances are she would have behaved the way she did whether I allowed it or not.

I also realise I have a lot a pent up resentment from some of her actions during our relationship, which is unhealthy to keep in. When she sent me abusive messages last week, I laid everything out straight with her, told her that I only became the man that I did because she chipped away at every piece of my life that made me who I am. I don't know why she did it, but it's irrelevant now. But, she always made me feel like she'd leave me if I didn't cave in to her demands to "change" to please her. In reality I did, and she left anyway, so that was a huge waste of time and effort.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> ... I laid everything out straight with her, told her that I only became the man that I did because she chipped away at every piece of my life that made me who I am...


Watch the blame statements to her, bro. You give her A LOT of power over you (even retroactively) by statements like this. You may feel this way (and feelings aren't reality), but she doesn't own what you've become. You do.

She owns her stuff. You own yours. You agreed (overtly or tacitly) to be her Average Frustrated Chump (AFC). 

The beauty of this is that you can go back to the person you want to be and was destined to be. This was an interesting side journey you took with this woman. It's over, now get back on your path and learn from this. 

I've already learned a lot of these lessons the hard way. I've been in and am in your shoes. I've felt (and still feel) the anger, disappointment, rejection, fear and abandonment. This experience will not be my defining moment. Do not let it be yours. 

Orbit up high. Stay out of intentional fray. Keep your head up.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Watch the blame statements to her, bro. You give her A LOT of power over you (even retroactively) by statements like this. You may feel this way (and feelings aren't reality), but she doesn't own what you've become. You do.
> 
> She owns her stuff. You own yours. You agreed (overtly or tacitly) to be her Average Frustrated Chump (AFC).
> 
> The beauty of this is that you can go back to the person you want to be and was destined to be. This was an interesting side journey you took with this woman. It's over, now get back on your path and learn from this.
> 
> I've already learned a lot of these lessons the hard way. I've been in and am in your shoes. I've felt (and still feel) the anger, disappointment, rejection, fear and abandonment. This experience will not be my defining moment. Do not let it be yours.
> 
> Orbit up high. Stay out of intentional fray. Keep your head up.


Yeah, in retrospect I shouldn't have blamed her for what I allowed to happen. In hindsight, I should have stood my ground and said "take me as I am, if you can't, you know where the door is". I own what I became, because _I_ became it. She didn't force me, she just set unreasonable boundaries, which when blinded by love, didn't seem unreasonable. Now I own what I am becoming, and I like this guy.

I chose the path of the Beta/AFC when I should have stayed Alpha. I obviously have Alpha qualities, and an Alpha mindset otherwise I wouldn't have attracted her in the first place. 

I'm becoming the person I want to be, that I was meant to be. I'd say I'm that person 70% of the time now, with 30% being me slipping back in to Beta/AFC WWB. That 30% correlates with the times that I want to talk to STBXW, the times that I pine for her and want her back.

The hard way to learn a lesson is usually the best way, sadly. If someone says "Don't put your hand on that stove, it's hot", _you_ don't know that it's hot, you just know that the other person _thinks_ it's hot. You won't truly know until you put your hand on the stove. 

I can honestly say, I don't want any moment in life to "define" me, I just want to "be". How do you define a person anyway? Definition implies a constant, and people are variables.

I'm at 50k, and staying at 50k. I'm not going to seek confrontation with STBXW, even if she initiates it. I'll ignore, or tell her to stop contacting me.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I did gain some insight from my venting, that she only treated me the way she did because I allowed it. As for behaving the way she did, only she could answer that because chances are she would have behaved the way she did whether I allowed it or not.


This comes back to not being able to control other people or allowing them to behave in a certain way. We don't have that power. We can only choose if keeping someone like this is close proximity is in our best interests or not.



helolover said:


> Watch the blame statements to her, bro. You give her A LOT of power over you (even retroactively) by statements like this. You may feel this way (and feelings aren't reality), but she doesn't own what you've become. You do.


Wise words.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> This comes back to not being able to control other people or allowing them to behave in a certain way. We don't have that power. We can only choose if keeping someone like this is close proximity is in our best interests or not.


Indeed it does, that was quite a tough lesson for me to learn, as a "Nice Guy". I used to try to control people by being nice, always agreeing to things or allowing things that internally I was uncomfortable with. I thought this would win me favour with people, but that's not the case. 

At least I know better now though .


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed it does, that was quite a tough lesson for me to learn, as a "Nice Guy". I used to try to control people by being nice, always agreeing to things or allowing things that internally I was uncomfortable with. I thought this would win me favour with people, but that's not the case.


Some of it might be "Nice Guy". Some just part and parcel of a long term relationship/marriage. You defer here, acquiesce there. You just have to draw the line when it, as you say, makes you "uncomfortable" with yourself. That's why the fitness tests thread is so valuable. The women in our lives do test our mettle regularly. I think it's largely unconscious on their part. Learning when to ignore, laugh at or creatively turn the tables is part of the challenge.



> At least I know better now though .


Yes. There's a world of difference from how you express yourself now to your first post. Keep it up fella.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Some of it might be "Nice Guy". Some just part and parcel of a long term relationship/marriage. You defer here, acquiesce there. You just have to draw the line when it, as you say, makes you "uncomfortable" with yourself. That's why the fitness tests thread is so valuable. The women in our lives do test our mettle regularly. I think it's largely unconscious on their part. Learning when to ignore, laugh at or creatively turn the tables is part of the challenge.
> 
> Yes. There's a world of difference from how you express yourself now to your first post. Keep it up fella.


I agree, there does have to be some compromise in relationships, but that needs to be exactly that. I didn't compromise, I sacrificed. There's a massive difference. She didn't compromise either, she demanded. The fitness tests thread is very good, and in the future I hope I'm more savvy to recognise them.

Even I can see the difference between now and then, it's pleasing. I fully intend to keep it up, and improve further .


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> I agree, there does have to be some compromise in relationships, but that needs to be exactly that. I didn't compromise, I sacrificed. There's a massive difference. She didn't compromise either, she demanded. The fitness tests thread is very good, and in the future I hope I'm more savvy to recognise them.
> 
> Even I can see the difference between now and then, it's pleasing. I fully intend to keep it up, and improve further .


I think the biggest problem is what I call the "Boiling the Frog" phenomenon. You see, if you want to boil a frog you don't get the water up to a boil and toss his a$$ in - he'll just jump right back out again. However, if you put him in a pan of nice room temperature water and slowly turn up the heat, he'll sit in there until he is boiled alive.

I think a lot of us have the same issue in a relationship. The SO doesn't _suddenly_ want all of these things that are totally out of character for us - we'd all bolt as fast as we could - the changes are gradual... one compromise at a time. Eventually we look around and are no longer the people we were when we started the relationship - and feeling a lot of kinship with that boiling frog.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I think the biggest problem is what I call the "Boiling the Frog" phenomenon. You see, if you want to boil a frog you don't get the water up to a boil and toss his a$$ in - he'll just jump right back out again. However, if you put him in a pan of nice room temperature water and slowly turn up the heat, he'll sit in there until he is boiled alive.
> 
> I think a lot of us have the same issue in a relationship. The SO doesn't _suddenly_ want all of these things that are totally out of character for us - we'd all bolt as fast as we could - the changes are gradual... one compromise at a time. Eventually we look around and are no longer the people we were when we started the relationship - and feeling a lot of kinship with that boiling frog.


This is a good analogy. 

The "compromises" were gradual. Some of them were good and for my health, which I understand. But sacrificing too much of who you truly are leads to misery, and it happens so gradually you don't even realise the reasons behind it. 

You stop being yourself, you stop being true to yourself, you become depressed. You loathe yourself for the fake that you have become, your self-respect plummets as that was lost the moment you sacrificed.


----------



## Mo42

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I've been making an effort to write in my journal again lately as I've been having some ups and downs.
> 
> I started out just writing about my day, and how I was feeling about the whole STBXW situation. It started out quite sad, about how I missed her, but that it was too late now etc.
> 
> Then something happened, I started thinking about everything she's put me through, every little clue that she left me for OM, all the false promises and our broken vows.
> 
> I became enraged, and my journal entry took a bit of a turn. I wrote some pretty horrible things in there about my STBXW, and it's sad that I meant them. A few choice phrases were:
> 
> "You are the lowest of the low. You aren't even worthy of sitting at my feet, much less being my wife."
> 
> "I don't wish you bliss and happiness, all I wish is that you get what you deserve, whatever that may be. It's not up to me to decide."
> 
> "You're broken, completely headf*cked, and if you don't get yourself together, all I see in your future is a string of failed relationships, and misery."
> 
> I don't like being angry, I really don't, but last night, I let the anger flow and I feel better for it.
> 
> I briefly considered drafting an email to STBXW telling her exactly what I think of her. Obviously I didn't, because it would serve no purpose and would just be me feeling victimised, and lashing out as a persecutor.
> 
> I'm still feeling quite angry today, I hope the anger subsides. I have absolutely no desire to waste my energy being angry at her. Indifference is what I strive for.


Do not bother to send that email. Write it up, but dont send. Realize that is your Freddy seeing her Freddy. 

Remember your LIFE'S GREATEST MOMENT. Get that on your iTV and be relaxed and confident. Do not let her Freddy ruin your day. 

Eventually she will wonder how you got so happy without you. WONDER being the key word. You are mysterious. 

Clean, clean, observe, enjoy.


----------



## KnottedStomach

Mo42 said:


> Do not bother to send that email. Write it up, but dont send. Realize that is your Freddy seeing her Freddy.
> 
> Remember your LIFE'S GREATEST MOMENT. Get that on your iTV and be relaxed and confident. Do not let her Freddy ruin your day.
> 
> Eventually she will wonder how you got so happy without you. WONDER being the key word. You are mysterious.
> 
> Clean, clean, observe, enjoy.


I agree with Mo here. Do not send such an email or any email for that matter. You are in NC.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> This is a good analogy.
> 
> The "compromises" were gradual. Some of them were good and for my health, which I understand. *But sacrificing too much of who you truly are leads to misery*, and it happens so gradually you don't even realise the reasons behind it.
> 
> You stop being yourself, you stop being true to yourself, you become depressed. You loathe yourself for the fake that you have become, your self-respect plummets as that was lost the moment you sacrificed.


And, I suspect, each step you take away from your true self leaves you that little bit more disorientated. Pretty soon you are second guessing your actions and applying that other "Nice Guy" trait of over-thinking. There was a poor guy on here, he was so paralysed by the thought of making the wrong decision her couldn't make a decision at all (I had a good analogy to help him, but I'm not sure if it's relevant here). 

When you're being true to yourself, authentic, you don't worry - you just do.


----------



## ReGroup

azteca1986 said:


> And, I suspect, each step you take away from your true self leaves you that little bit more disorientated. Pretty soon you are second guessing your actions and applying that other "Nice Guy" trait of over-thinking. There was a poor guy on here, he was so paralysed by the thought of making the wrong decision her couldn't make a decision at all (I had a good analogy to help him, but I'm not sure if it's relevant here).
> 
> When you're being true to yourself, authentic, you don't worry - you just do.


This.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

Mo42 said:


> Do not bother to send that email. Write it up, but dont send. Realize that is your Freddy seeing her Freddy.
> 
> Remember your LIFE'S GREATEST MOMENT. Get that on your iTV and be relaxed and confident. Do not let her Freddy ruin your day.
> 
> Eventually she will wonder how you got so happy without you. WONDER being the key word. You are mysterious.
> 
> Clean, clean, observe, enjoy.





> I agree with Mo here. Do not send such an email or any email for that matter. You are in NC.


I didn't actually write any email out, it was a fleeting thought that I immediately dismissed . I know how foolish and frankly childish that would be. Just because she has hurt me, I don't need to retaliate. I'm better than that .



> And, I suspect, each step you take away from your true self leaves you that little bit more disorientated. Pretty soon you are second guessing your actions and applying that other "Nice Guy" trait of over-thinking. There was a poor guy on here, he was so paralysed by the thought of making the wrong decision her couldn't make a decision at all (I had a good analogy to help him, but I'm not sure if it's relevant here).
> 
> When you're being true to yourself, authentic, you don't worry - you just do.


Yep, that's so accurate it's almost like you were there. I'm also indecisive for fear of making the wrong choice or causing inconvenience.

I'm trying to be authentic and not worry, I'm definitely getting better but I have a long way to go still. Most days I'm enjoying the journey and the self-re-discovery though!


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Yep, that's so accurate it's almost like you were there. I'm also indecisive for fear of making the wrong choice or causing inconvenience.


Okay, I know it's bad form on a forum to quote yourself but I think this might help you:


SteelerGuy said:


> I also have a problem with being decisive. I would never want to make a decision for fear that I would choose the wrong thing and be judged for it.


Here's an analogy that might help:

_When I was taught to sketch we were told that we should never erase a wrong stroke. Each line in the wrong place would be a guide to get it right next time. Another mis-stroke? Well now I've got two guides._

So, your 'bad' decisions, so long as you learn from them, help you make good decisions in the future. In time you'll realise that the vast amount of decisions you make fall into these two categories and you learn to trust your judgement as a consequence. I also learned not to emotionally invest in any actual decision; it clouds your judgement. I don't _always_ get it 'right', but then who does? Not worth worrying about.

See, in my head there are only good decisions and bad decisions I learn from (hence my question this morning). Win, win. A few years back there was a TAG Heuer campaign with the line - Success is a Mind Game. True.



> I'm trying to be authentic and not worry, I'm definitely getting better but I have a long way to go still. Most days I'm enjoying the journey and the self-re-discovery though!


You'll find it easier now you don't have someone close to you deliberately de-stabilising you and pulling you away from your true self. This is why the focus has to come off her and back to you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Okay, I know it's bad form on a forum to quote yourself but I think this might help you:
> 
> 
> Here's an analogy that might help:
> 
> _When I was taught to sketch we were told that we should never erase a wrong stroke. Each line in the wrong place would be a guide to get it right next time. Another mis-stroke? Well now I've got two guides._
> 
> So, your 'bad' decisions, so long as you learn from them, help you make good decisions in the future. In time you'll realise that the vast amount of decisions you make fall into these two categories and you learn to trust your judgement as a consequence. I also learned not to emotionally invest in any actual decision; it clouds your judgement. I don't _always_ get it 'right', but then who does? Not worth worrying about.
> 
> See, in my head there are only good decisions and bad decisions I learn from (hence my question this morning). Win, win. A few years back there was a TAG Heuer campaign with the line - Success is a Mind Game. True.
> 
> You'll find it easier now you don't have someone close to you deliberately de-stabilising you and pulling you away from your true self. This is why the focus has to come off her and back to you.


Those two quotes at the top of your post, are almost the same word for word. Maybe indecisiveness is a symptom of being a "Nice Guy"?

The sketching analogy is a good one. I think the problem for me is that I judge _myself_ too harshly for my bad decisions. I always beat myself up over my failings and my mistakes, but I'm trying not to lately. Rather than being harsh on myself for what I can't do/get wrong, I congratulate myself for what I can do/get right. It's quite a mental shift, but it feels great. 

You're right it's definitely easier now I'm "free" to be myself. Before you point it out, I know I've always had that freedom, but I didn't feel like it before. Because she pressured me to change so much, I felt there must be something wrong with my true self, but in reality, there was just something wrong with _her_. My true self is awesome.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Those two quotes at the top of your post, are almost the same word for word. Maybe indecisive nice is a symptom of being a "Nice Guy"?


Yes, it is a symptom that stems from that idea I mooted that "Nice Guys" set themselves unattainable standards. Nobody gets every decision right. But a "Nice Guy" places unbelievable pressure on themselves to achieve the unachievable.



> The sketching analogy is a good one. I think the problem for me is that I judge _myself_ too harshly for my bad decisions. I always beat myself up over my failings and my mistakes, but I'm trying not to lately. Rather than being harsh on myself for what I can't do/get wrong, I congratulate myself for what I can do/get right. It's quite a mental shift, but it feels great.


You're definitely swimming into healthier mental waters, that's plain to see/read. It'll take a little time to activate the positive feedback circuit that exists in your head; the one where good and bad decisions=win/win. You'll get there when you realise your only obligation to yourself is to learn from your mistakes. 



> You're right it's definitely easier now I'm "free" to be myself. Before you point it out, *I know I've always had that freedom*, but I didn't feel like it before. Because she pressured me to change so much, I felt there must be something wrong with my true self, but in reality, there was just something wrong with _her_. My true self is awesome.


I'm not convinced you have had until recently.

Your comments on STBXW's father are enlightening. A man who feels he's superior to everybody. If he truly were he wouldn't feel the need to knock everyone around him. You saw through him. You saw his back-handed compliments for what they were; giving with one hand, whilst taking away with the other. This man exerts a lot of influence on his daughter...

Thankfully this is not your problem anymore. You now free to become again the awesome guy you always were. A "Good Guy" not a "Nice Guy".


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Yes, it is a symptom that stems from that idea I mooted that "Nice Guys" set themselves unattainable standards. Nobody gets every decision right. But a "Nice Guy" places unbelievable pressure on themselves to achieve the unachievable.
> 
> You're definitely swimming into healthier mental waters, that's plain to see/read. It'll take a little time to activate the positive feedback circuit that exists in your head; the one where good and bad decisions=win/win. You'll get there when you realise your only obligation to yourself is to learn from your mistakes.
> 
> I'm not convinced you have had until recently.
> 
> Your comments on STBXW's father are enlightening. A man who feels he's superior to everybody. If he truly were he wouldn't feel the need to knock everyone around him. You saw through him. You saw his back-handed compliments for what they were; giving with one hand, whilst taking away with the other. This man exerts a lot of influence on his daughter...
> 
> Thankfully this is not your problem anymore. You now free to become again the awesome guy you always were. A "Good Guy" not a "Nice Guy".


I do set myself unattainable standards, I'm quite the perfectionist, and anything less has never been good enough for me. That's why even though I'm a talented guitar player, I've never played in front of anyone barring a very small handful of family who had to hear me practice when growing up. I'm trying to move away from being a perfectionist.

I'm sure I'll get there eventually, and I'm definitely learning to go easier on myself. I just want to get to the point where I can maintain that mindset permanently and effortlessly. All in good time though . In the past I would have told myself "So, you're 70% fixed, but you're still 30% broken", now I tell myself "Hey dude, you're 70% fixed, good for you!".

What I meant about the freedom was, I always had the capacity and the right to that freedom, but I felt undeserving of it I guess. I felt broken and worthless, and I was broken, but never worthless. That feeling of worthlessness is what prevented me from looking inside myself and embracing my life, and my true self.

He certainly does hold a lot of influence over her, he always has done. Ever since I've known her she's striven to please her father. Despite his treatment of her (and the fact that he's a bellend) if he said jump, she'd ask how high. He's also extremely pro-materialism and would always boast about his money, his possessions, his salary etc. I think this impacted STBXW also - we didn't have a lot, we owned very few "nice" things, didn't earn a lot of money and so on. I learned that shortly after my STBXW left, daddy started throwing money at her.

I'm so pleased to have my father in-law out of my life, he isn't a pleasant person, and having to pretend to enjoy his company quite frankly made me feel sick, and even more worthless. Falseness kills self-respect, self-esteem and self-identity.

Never again.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> What I meant about the freedom was, I always had the capacity and the right to that freedom, but I felt undeserving of it I guess. I felt broken and worthless, and I was broken, but never worthless. That feeling of worthlessness is what prevented me from looking inside myself and embracing my life, and my true self.


You have all the pieces in place to get you where you're going. Just be easy on yourself, there's no quick fix. Your goal, I'd suggest, is not perfection but contentment. When you're content with who you are all the other positive aspects will be in place too; confidence, self esteem, self respect, etc.



> He certainly does hold a lot of influence over her, he always has done. Ever since I've known her she's striven to please her father. Despite his treatment of her (and the fact that he's a bellend) if he said jump, she'd ask how high.


You can see the relationship model she strives for is not a healthy one. It's not one of two equals.



> But, she always made me feel like she'd leave me if I didn't cave in to her demands to "change" to please her.


It doesn't work that way. A good partnership enriches you both. I don't think she'll ever get it.



> I learned that shortly after my STBXW left, daddy started throwing money at her.


Yeah because the way to get your child's affection is to buy it :roll eyes: He sounds a twat (love the words we can sneak past the censorship software). No wonder she turned out the way she did.


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## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> You have all the pieces in place to get you where you're going. Just be easy on yourself, there's no quick fix. Your goal, I'd suggest, is not perfection but contentment. When you're content with who you are all the other positive aspects will be in place too; confidence, self esteem, self respect, etc.
> 
> You can see the relationship model she strives for is not a healthy one. It's not one of two equals.
> 
> It doesn't work that way. A good partnership enriches you both. I don't think she'll ever get it.
> 
> Yeah because the way to get your child's affection is to buy it :roll eyes: He sounds a twat (love the words we can sneak past the censorship software). No wonder she turned out the way she did.


Indeed the pieces are falling in to place. I read a quote somewhere once that said "Sometimes when everything falls apart it's actually falling in to place". Quite apt really.

Her "relationship" model is too one-sided, and you're right I don't think she will ever get it.

She always wanted a good relationship with her father, I think he's trying to buy her love to kind of say "See, you don't need WWB, things are great without him".

He paid for her to take a trip to Rome, which she can't go on now because she's gotten herself infected. Shame.

The more "English" profanities tend to pass the filter .


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, pretty big day yesterday.

I believe yesterday was the first day, in which I went the entire day without missing/longing for STBXW. That pleases me. I still thought of her at times, but I didn't _miss_ her.

I'm genuinely starting to see the benefits of life without her. 

I think I'm getting the hang of this "focusing on myself" thing.


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## woosaa

WantWifeBack said:


> So, pretty big day yesterday.
> 
> I believe yesterday was the first day, in which I went the entire day without missing/longing for STBXW. That pleases me. I still thought of her at times, but I didn't _miss_ her.
> 
> I'm genuinely starting to see the benefits of life without her.
> 
> I think I'm getting the hang of this "focusing on myself" thing.


Great to hear, you will think about her constantly, but def keep the focus on you as much as you can. You need to give yourself that unconditional love. It takes constant reassuring and coaching from yourself. Keep working at it and when it comes time to fall in love you will not be filling holes.


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## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> Great to hear, you will think about her constantly, but def keep the focus on you as much as you can. You need to give yourself that unconditional love. It takes constant reassuring and coaching from yourself. Keep working at it and when it comes time to fall in love you will not be filling holes.


Indeed, it is good - I haven't missed her today yet either, although I have thought about her a little more than yesterday. I'm learning to love myself and at the moment I feel like I take a step forward each day!


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## GotLifeBack

Not really much to report today, but I have missed STBXW at points today, I think mostly because I've just been sitting about the house. All of my friends are either paupers or boring, nobody wants to go out.

Tried to stay busy and have spent several hours playing guitar today, I'm trying to learn a song and so far, it's going well but it's definitely one of the most challenging songs I've ever tried to play. But that's good, because it keeps my mind otherwise occupied! Managed to learn around three quarters of it today, which is pretty good going.

(Song: Karawan - Desolate Motion (Instrumental Song) - YouTube)

Anyway, side tracked by guitar stuff. Apologies.

On this coming Monday, it will be the longest I have been in NC with STBXW. This time, I don't feel half as bad as I did before. I rarely consider contacting her, and when I do it's a fleeting thought which I dismiss within seconds.


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## Sandfly

Dear Original Poster (time to change your username ;-)) I'm really pleased to see how you have absorbed and adapted the truth about your situation. I have come to care about you (as a fella!), and about your new independent-mindset, I hope you carry on adding to and updating 'you'.

More generally, I would like to sincerely thank both male and female contributors for your insight and your skilful ways of getting the message across. I have been reading lots of other threads too. The women are best at 'this is what she's really doing' and the men are best at 'this is what You now need to do'.

Luckily I did all these things by instinct anyway - acting on suspicion instead of ignoring it, shutting off contact permanently (no 'friends' nonsense) and placing the fault where it belongs - with the disloyal Other; but it still helps me at this difficult time to see that I have done the right thing, and that I mustn't be tempted to extend any olive branch to the girl gone cold. 7 years, this last time, but proud of myself that I didn't try to fix what are HER problems (i.e. excuses). 

It means that maybe I can do this all again someday, and still continue to be myself - an no-nonsense self-respecting man, averse to dishonesty. 
:smthumbup:


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## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Dear Original Poster (time to change your username ;-)) I'm really pleased to see how you have absorbed and adapted the truth about your situation. I have come to care about you (as a fella!), and about your new independent-mindset, I hope you carry on adding to and updating 'you'.
> 
> More generally, I would like to sincerely thank both male and female contributors for your insight and your skilful ways of getting the message across. I have been reading lots of other threads too. The women are best at 'this is what she's really doing' and the men are best at 'this is what You now need to do'.
> 
> Luckily I did all these things by instinct anyway - acting on suspicion instead of ignoring it, shutting off contact permanently (no 'friends' nonsense) and placing the fault where it belongs - with the disloyal Other; but it still helps me at this difficult time to see that I have done the right thing, and that I mustn't be tempted to extend any olive branch to the girl gone cold. 7 years, this last time, but proud of myself that I didn't try to fix what are HER problems (i.e. excuses).
> 
> It means that maybe I can do this all again someday, and still continue to be myself - an no-nonsense self-respecting man, averse to dishonesty.
> :smthumbup:


Thanks Sandfly .

I've actually contacted the mods and asked them to change my username but I'm still waiting - I'm not sure how long the process takes!

The threads here are a goldmine of information, and although it took me a while to detach my emotions and thoughts, I'm glad that I did. It's allowed me to see what's happening for what it truly is, which is aiding me in moving forward and becoming a better man. I'll keep working on myself and bettering myself, and I feel that I will continue to for the rest of my life. Self-realisation and self-improvement has so far been one of the most gratifying experiences of my life.

It sounds like you have a good handle on things, and I'm pleased for you . Keep it up!

We can all do it again one day, but we'll be better prepared for it by being our best self. 

I'm certain I will have other failed relationships, but now I am prepared for those. But the real lesson here is, being prepared for the one that doesn't fail, a priceless lesson.


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## Sandfly

[/QUOTE] I'm certain I will have other failed relationships, but now I am prepared for those. But the real lesson here is, being prepared for the one that doesn't fail, a priceless lesson.[/QUOTE]

Well, I feel that you won't have 'failed' relationships, you will instead have some exciting 'practice' relationships. But that's for *after* you sort out your fitness, 3/4 times a week and never more than that - 10-15 mins cycling (=stamina) and light (then medium) weightlifting (testosterone) to begin with. When you got your body in six months, then take up a bit of latin dancing. Always plenty of spare partners, and the trick is to deliberately keep your focus on yourself and learning, not to start breathing heavily on the first few girls! The right girls take at least a couple of weeks before trying to pull your pants off, and you'll be more comfortable if you make sure you get to know them anyway.

The best is still to come, gee I wish I were your age, you're just coming up to the time when I had the most memorable short-term flings with some very lovely older women - nothing serious, but parting amicably and knowing that I had energy, had a good body and had plenty of options (I didn't have to do the asking, so I must have been radiant) was a real boost, a permanent boost. Now that I think of it, maybe they weren't all 'separated' from their husbands as they claimed (*shudder!*) 

Wish my father hadn't been so clueless (or maybe shy? Or taciturn?) about what REALLY matters... You know I discovered this wellworn path by accident (or instinct?), simply because I wanted to be a fitter, more competent 'me' and the sudden interest from stalkers was just a side effect...!

Work on yourself, and don't 'expect' anything for a while, just enjoy being single, plan it, stick to it.

My very best wishes!


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## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> I'm certain I will have other failed relationships, but now I am prepared for those. But the real lesson here is, being prepared for the one that doesn't fail, a priceless lesson.
> 
> Well, I feel that you won't have 'failed' relationships, you will instead have some exciting 'practice' relationships. But that's for *after* you sort out your fitness, 3/4 times a week and never more than that - 10-15 mins cycling (=stamina) and light (then medium) weightlifting (testosterone) to begin with. When you got your body in six months, then take up a bit of latin dancing. Always plenty of spare partners, and the trick is to deliberately keep your focus on yourself and learning, not to start breathing heavily on the first few girls! The right girls take at least a couple of weeks before trying to pull your pants off, and you'll be more comfortable if you make sure you get to know them anyway.
> 
> The best is still to come, gee I wish I were your age, you're just coming up to the time when I had the most memorable short-term flings with some very lovely older women - nothing serious, but parting amicably and knowing that I had energy, had a good body and had plenty of options (I didn't have to do the asking, so I must have been radiant) was a real boost, a permanent boost. Now that I think of it, maybe they weren't all 'separated' from their husbands as they claimed (*shudder!*)
> 
> Wish my father hadn't been so clueless (or maybe shy? Or taciturn?) about what REALLY matters... You know I discovered this wellworn path by accident (or instinct?), simply because I wanted to be a fitter, more competent 'me' and the sudden interest from stalkers was just a side effect...!
> 
> Work on yourself, and don't 'expect' anything for a while, just enjoy being single, plan it, stick to it.
> 
> My very best wishes!


That's a good way of looking at it actually. Currently I have no plans to enter in to any relationships. I'm hitting the gym around 4 times a week, doing weight training and cardio and my testosterone is going through the roof, as a result my confidence is too, but so is my sex drive . I've never been "out of shape" as such, but since I swithed from a manual job top an office job my testosterone dropped, and my body has been in a catabolic state for years, I lost so much strength and muscle mass. Currently I'm at 185lbs (or 13 stone 3 for us Englishmen I think?) and I'm 6'2" so I'm relatively in shape.

I really should learn how to dance to be honest, it's something I never really learned by I get by due to my natural affinity for music.

It sounds like you had a blast when you were my age, hopefully the same is true for me .

Interestingly, your father sounds a lot like my father.

At the moment I have two goals, to better myself and to have fun. A relationship isn't one of them, even with my STBXW. I have too much work to do on myself mentally and physically.


----------



## Sandfly

Yeah, our Dad's didn't give us the full set of tools, but it's not their fault. Part of it is that we wouldn't believe them, we have to witness the ridiculous behaviour first hand. 

That you now have an office job is PERFECT. You don't put on muscle or lose weight during exercise.The changes take place when you are resting and eating (post-workout weight loss due to a raised resting metabolic rate) and when you are sleeping (muscle repair and extension). That 'bulk' effect after workout is extra blood being stored, and over time, glycogen (local muscle fuel). It's a common mistake to over-exercise in the belief that this is when the muscles are being remodelled. In fact, you should eat soon after to prevent your muscle being recycled as glucose. The workout is the trigger to the body which says 'oooh, this is difficult. I must adapt' and the adapting itself is done when the stress factor (cardio, weights) goes away - during rest and repair. So taking rest days when you're not up to it is good! and spacing your weight training at 48 or 72 hours is also good practice for everyone but a genetically enhanced muscle-freak. 
You might already know all this, but maybe not.

At the office you will be getting more resting to complement your exertion, you won't be 'run ragged' at work and therefore you won't skip your gym. 

You're lucky: 6 foot 2? Pretty much in shape already? And you still have a raging sex-drive...? Count your blessings, a year from now you'll need all of it! 

I'm envious.


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## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Yeah, our Dad's didn't give us the full set of tools, but it's not their fault. Part of it is that we wouldn't believe them, we have to witness the ridiculous behaviour first hand.
> 
> That you now have an office job is PERFECT. You don't put on muscle or lose weight during exercise.The changes take place when you are resting and eating (post-workout weight loss due to a raised resting metabolic rate) and when you are sleeping (muscle repair and extension). That 'bulk' effect after workout is extra blood being stored, and over time, glycogen (local muscle fuel). It's a common mistake to over-exercise in the belief that this is when the muscles are being remodelled. In fact, you should eat soon after to prevent your muscle being recycled as glucose. The workout is the trigger to the body which says 'oooh, this is difficult. I must adapt' and the adapting itself is done when the stress factor (cardio, weights) goes away - during rest and repair. So taking rest days when you're not up to it is good! and spacing your weight training at 48 or 72 hours is also good practice for everyone but a genetically enhanced muscle-freak.
> You might already know all this, but maybe not.
> 
> At the office you will be getting more resting to complement your exertion, you won't be 'run ragged' at work and therefore you won't skip your gym.
> 
> You're lucky: 6 foot 2? Pretty much in shape already? And you still have a raging sex-drive...? Count your blessings, a year from now you'll need all of it!
> 
> I'm envious.


At least we can learn now .

Yeah the rest is definitely a good aspect of it, I was quite strong before I started office work though. I don't over exercise but I do train on consecutive days, but I focus on particular muscle groups then mix it up the next day to allow the muscles worked the previous day to recover. For example, Friday is always leg day, then they get a whole week to recover.

I always drink a protein shake post-work out (with water) and eat around an hour afterwards. I eat carbs pre-workout and have a shake (with milk) a few hours beforehand too. Trying to build lean mass, have been at it for 6 weeks and am already seeing results!

I guess I am lucky in some respects yeah, women do like my height! The sex drive is a little frustrating at the moment, but I guess it won't always be .


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## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> At least we can learn now .
> 
> Yeah the rest is definitely a good aspect of it, I was quite strong before I started office work though. I don't over exercise but I do train on consecutive days, but I focus on particular muscle groups then mix it up the next day to allow the muscles worked the previous day to recover. For example, Friday is always leg day, then they get a whole week to recover.
> 
> I always drink a protein shake post-work out (with water) and eat around an hour afterwards. I eat carbs pre-workout and have a shake (with milk) a few hours beforehand too. Trying to build lean mass, have been at it for 6 weeks and am already seeing results!
> 
> I guess I am lucky in some respects yeah, women do like my height! The sex drive is a little frustrating at the moment, but I guess it won't always be .


The 5/3/1 is a pretty good strength building regimen:

Link to book


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> The 5/3/1 is a pretty good strength building regimen:
> 
> Link to book


Cheers HL, I'll look in to it!

I've actually missed STBXW quite a lot today and have come to the conclusion that sitting about and not doing much leads to me missing STBXW. The weekends are tough when all my friends are busy.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Cheers HL, I'll look in to it!
> 
> I've actually missed STBXW quite a lot today and have come to the conclusion that sitting about and not doing much leads to me missing STBXW. The weekends are tough when all my friends are busy.


Come visit the states. I'll go bar hopping with you… DC area.


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## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Come visit the states. I'll go bar hopping with you… DC area.


Haha, I would but I'm pretty broke .

Oh, and I have work in 11 hours, so I wouldn't even have time to fly there .


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## GotLifeBack

So, I missed my STBXW quite a bit over the weekend. It sucked, but I know it was just boredom/lonliness. It wasn't _her_ that I missed as such, it was that connection, the companionship and the company.

Last night I had a very vivid and disturbing dream about STBXW, and this morning I woke in a cold sweat. It's been playing on my mind quite a bit this morning, but it was just a dream.

The weekend is over now, and I never thought I'd say this but I'm glad. Grateful for the distraction and the company of my colleagues. 

Today is day 14 of NC. After today it will be the longest we have gone without any form of contact. I feel pretty good about NC, although I was tempted to break it over the weekend. I'm glad I didn't.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Today is day 14 of NC. After today it will be the longest we have gone without any form of contact. I feel pretty good about NC, although I was tempted to break it over the weekend. I'm glad I didn't.


Still tempted to break NC, I don't know why I am allowing myself to feel this way. I really can't wait to hit the gym later, that always helps me clear my head.

I keep reminding myself that if I break NC, it will be a step backwards, and it won't change anything. I'm all for moving forwards.


----------



## woosaa

WantWifeBack said:


> Still tempted to break NC, I don't know why I am allowing myself to feel this way. I really can't wait to hit the gym later, that always helps me clear my head.
> 
> I keep reminding myself that if I break NC, it will be a step backwards, and it won't change anything. I'm all for moving forwards.


It is understandable man. Keep busy and keep telling yourself that you are better off. It is completely normal to still miss those feelings and that companionship. Just yesterday I sent a message to my ex to call our daughter (2 weeks that I have had her and zero phone calls or text from wife). It bothers me, but I try to stay busy to not get consumed by the negative thoughts.

The dream you had could also be because your wife and the situation is in your mind before you go to bed. I had a few dreams this week and I know for some reason the no contact from her considering I have our daughter is bothering me more than usual. You are prob bothered because you are continously seeing where your wife is and how she can be cold. Let her be cold and hey f**k her, you are going to keep doing you and keep it moving forward.


----------



## GotLifeBack

woosaa said:


> It is understandable man. Keep busy and keep telling yourself that you are better off. It is completely normal to still miss those feelings and that companionship. Just yesterday I sent a message to my ex to call our daughter (2 weeks that I have had her and zero phone calls or text from wife). It bothers me, but I try to stay busy to not get consumed by the negative thoughts.
> 
> The dream you had could also be because your wife and the situation is in your mind before you go to bed. I had a few dreams this week and I know for some reason the no contact from her considering I have our daughter is bothering me more than usual. You are prob bothered because you are continously seeing where your wife is and how she can be cold. Let her be cold and hey f**k her, you are going to keep doing you and keep it moving forward.


Yeah, it's all part of the rollercoaster. This time it's different though, this time I _know_ that I'm doing the right thing by not contacting her. I know I'm doing the right thing for me. I no longer know or trust that woman. So what purpose would contact serve? It wouldn't bring her back, it wouldn't make her want to R (not that I would really be able to now, unless she spent a year or so really working on herself). So, I'll just leave it.

So I miss her, I miss the company and companionship, but when I think of all I have gained, it seems like a fair price.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, it's all part of the rollercoaster. This time it's different though, this time I _know_ that I'm doing the right thing by not contacting her. I know I'm doing the right thing for me. I no longer know or trust that woman. So what purpose would contact serve? It wouldn't bring her back, it wouldn't make her want to R (not that I would really be able to now, unless she spent a year or so really working on herself). So, I'll just leave it.
> 
> So I miss her, I miss the company and companionship, but when I think of all I have gained, it seems like a fair price.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ers-triggers-triggers-what-do-about-them.html


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## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ers-triggers-triggers-what-do-about-them.html


Oddly, I saw the title of that thread and thought it may apply to me and I clicked it before I checked this one .


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## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Oddly, I saw the title of that thread and thought it may apply to me and I clicked it before I checked this one .


You're urge to contact her when you're feeling lonely is also a trigger.

Self-regulate it.

50k young man.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You're urge to contact her when you're feeling lonely is also a trigger.
> 
> Self-regulate it.
> 
> 50k young man.


Indeed.

If/when it happens again, I think I'll take a walk through the forest and leave all methods of communication at home. I did this when we separated three years ago, however it's only now occurred to me to re-instate this practice. :scratchhead:


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## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed.
> 
> If/when it happens again, I think I'll take a walk through the forest and leave all methods of communication at home. I did this when we separated three years ago, however it's only now occurred to me to re-instate this practice. :scratchhead:


Excellent idea!


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Excellent idea!


It's a great way to clear your head. Years ago I went out and told myself I wouldn't go home until I was done thinking about her or wanting to contact her. I was out for almost 12 hours. Sometimes you just need to remove yourself from temptation and re-evaluate.

Luckily tonight should be easier as I'll be hitting the gym with some friends, and I always feel good after a work out, maybe it's all the extra testosterone .


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> It's a great way to clear your head. Years ago I went out and told myself I wouldn't go home until I was done thinking about her or wanting to contact her. I was out for almost 12 hours. Sometimes you just need to remove yourself from temptation and re-evaluate.
> 
> Luckily tonight should be easier as I'll be hitting the gym with some friends, and I always feel good after a work out, maybe it's all the extra testosterone .


Me too, brother. Me too. 

Sometimes I even work out twice a day. :scratchhead:


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Me too, brother. Me too.
> 
> Sometimes I even work out twice a day. :scratchhead:


Hehe, I work out 4 days and rest 3. It's going well so far, my confidence is improving, I'm starting to get bigger and more defined too.

I've never had much confidence in myself, and that goes for both body and personality. I'm hoping by improving myself physically and mentally that I may be able to find a little confidence.

The little that I did have was torn away from me when STBXW left.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Hehe, I work out 4 days and rest 3. It's going well so far, my confidence is improving, I'm starting to get bigger and more defined too.
> 
> I've never had much confidence in myself, and that goes for both body and personality. I'm hoping by improving myself physically and mentally that I may be able to find a little confidence.
> 
> The little that I did have was torn away from me when STBXW left.


You mean you surrendered the last of it.... don't you?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You mean you surrendered the last of it.... don't you?


Yeah, I'd say that's more accurate than my previous statement .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Just what I needed, an awesome gym session and now I feel really good .

I'm feeling pretty Alpha. When I feel like this, STBXW is a nothing floating in the back of my mind.

I like it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, the NC record has been broken, day 15 today! Pretty proud of myself. :smthumbup:

No dreams of STBXW last night either, at least not that I remember! 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fleeting thoughts that maybe one day she'll want to try R, but I _know_ that even if that happens, it just can't be anymore. Not without a monumental effort from her.

With Christmas fast approaching, I'm trying to mentally prepare for what will undoubtedly be a difficult time. I've made plans to stay with family and keep as busy as possible, but if anyone has any other tips on how to cope over the holidays, I'm all ears.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> Just what I needed, an awesome gym session and now I feel really good .
> 
> I'm feeling pretty Alpha. When I feel like this, STBXW is a nothing floating in the back of my mind.
> 
> I like it.


I also didn't mention yesterday because it slipped my mind, but I caught a woman checking me out in the gym last night, which was a nice boost .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Hmmm, today is weird.

I don't miss STBXW per se, but I'm feeling like I want to show her how much I've improved. I obviously won't because unless she wants to see it for herself, she won't see it anyway. I know it would be fruitless.

I'm sure I'll feel like this many times. 

I still feel weird without my wedding ring on, even though I've now had it off for almost as long as I had it on.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Hmmm, today is weird.
> 
> I don't miss STBXW per se, but I'm feeling like I want to show her how much I've improved.


That's called approval seeking.

Another term for it is codependence.

It has many tentacles.


----------



## Honorbound

Conrad said:


> That's called approval seeking.
> 
> Another term for it is codependence.
> 
> It has many tentacles.


:iagree:

Your improvements are for you. Repeat after me:

"Who care what she, or anyone, else thinks? I rock... I have the scars, callouses, and the T-shirt to prove it."


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> That's called approval seeking.
> 
> Another term for it is codependence.
> 
> It has many tentacles.


Unsurprisingly you're right Conrad. 

It's one thing to curb the approval seeking/codependent behaviour, and another to break free of the mental shackles of it that have been ingrained in me since childhood. I'm seeing more and more that people like me for who I am and I don't need to earn that. I guess I just need to remind myself of that.



> Your improvements are for you. Repeat after me:
> 
> "Who care what she, or anyone, else thinks? I rock... I have the scars, callouses, and the T-shirt to prove it."


That shall become my mantra.

My improvements are for me. This situation puts me in mind of the saying:

"If you aren't present during my struggle, don't expect to be present during my success."


----------



## Sandfly

"If you aren't present during my struggle, don't expect to be present during my success"

That one blew me away! :smthumbup:

Did you yourself come up with that?


----------



## Conrad

Sandfly said:


> "If you aren't present during my struggle, don't expect to be present during my success"
> 
> That one blew me away! :smthumbup:
> 
> Did you yourself come up with that?


WantWifeBack is going to change his handle to the Little Red Hen.


----------



## Sandfly

Brilliant, Conrad. I hope he does!!

Seriously though, he's got a perceptive head on him when once the fog is cleared. Some gems on this thread.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/stories/fairytale/littleredhen/story/


----------



## LongWalk

What about the legal formalities of divorce? Do you have to have contact?

Do you live in metropolitan area? Try playing underwater hockey. Many cute women and you get to know them via sport.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> "If you aren't present during my struggle, don't expect to be present during my success"
> 
> That one blew me away! :smthumbup:
> 
> Did you yourself come up with that?


Unfortunately not Sandfly, I read it somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where.



> WantWifeBack is going to change his handle to the Little Red Hen.


I've never heard of this crimson chicken. But I have requested a username change, around a week ago .



> Seriously though, he's got a perceptive head on him when once the fog is cleared. Some gems on this thread.


Hehe, thanks. Some days are a little foggier than others, but from where I was 3 months ago, to where I am now, it's night and day.



> What about the legal formalities of divorce? Do you have to have contact?
> 
> Do you live in metropolitan area? Try playing underwater hockey. Many cute women and you get to know them via sport.


I shouldn't need to have any contact for the divorce proceedings as far as I am aware. It should be as simple as her mailing me papers, me filling them out and returning them. Assets are divided, no children, no property, it should be straightforward.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Do you live in metropolitan area? Try playing underwater hockey. Many cute women and you get to know them via sport.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Oh, and nope, I don't unfortunately, I live out in the sticks. Nearest city isn't too far though, the world will open up once I have a car/driving licence .


----------



## Honorbound

...looking up 'underwater hockey'....

I've never heard of it.

Oh... probably something us ******** shouldn't play. Someone is liable to drink too many beers and throw a gator or something in there just for laughs.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> Hehe, thanks. Some days are a little foggier than others, but from where I was 3 months ago, to where I am now, it's night and day.


You reminded me of a sentence I read in a book which hit me:

"No one can tell the exact moment when day becomes night, but everyone can tell the difference between light and darkness."

You are firmly in the light now!


----------



## Conrad

Sandfly said:


> You reminded me of a sentence I read in a book which hit me:
> 
> "No one can tell the exact moment when day becomes night, but everyone can tell the difference between light and darkness."
> 
> You are firmly in the light now!


Once you know something, it's impossible to "un-know" it.


----------



## Sandfly

Careful Conrad ! that was a Marxist quotation I slipped in there 

Yeah, but to truly 'know' the ins and outs of something, you have to put it into practice.

(careful !!)


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> You reminded me of a sentence I read in a book which hit me:
> 
> "No one can tell the exact moment when day becomes night, but everyone can tell the difference between light and darkness."
> 
> You are firmly in the light now!


Firmly in the light today, but there is no light without darkness to measure it against. We'll see what tomorrow brings .


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> Firmly in the light today, but there is no light without darkness to measure it against. We'll see what tomorrow brings .


A bit of Taoism, too huh? Good stuff. 

My favourite is this one by Lao ze:

If you are depressed you are living in the past. 
If you are anxious you are living in the future. 
If you are at peace you are living in the present.” 

I guess I better go, I have to get up early tomorrow.

Take care!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> A bit of Taoism, too huh? Good stuff.
> 
> My favourite is this one by Lao ze:
> 
> If you are depressed you are living in the past.
> If you are anxious you are living in the future.
> If you are at peace you are living in the present.”
> 
> I guess I better go, I have to get up early tomorrow.
> 
> Take care!


Rest well SF


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, another day of NC. Day 16. Still feeling like I'd like to try and talk to STBXW, I'm not sure why though. If I'm honest I've been missing sex A LOT lately, and I think that definitely plays a part in it. 

I know if I can make it to the weekend, I'll be fine. I just need to get out, have some fun and some form of female interaction to refresh my determination, to remind myself that it's not the end for me and there are plenty of other attractive women in the world.

Bring on Saturday.


----------



## LongWalk

Did you give some thought to Octopush?

If you go to this link they have photograph of a female player hovering in the water. The photo is quite small. But if you download it and look at it in full resolution, you will be highly motivated to start playing, if you like the water at all.

The thing that is great about sports is that you get to meet people in a non dating situation.

In the UK, there are also hiking clubs. Awesome exercise on a weekend.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Did you give some thought to Octopush?
> 
> If you go to this link they have photograph of a female player hovering in the water. The photo is quite small. But if you download it and look at it in full resolution, you will be highly motivated to start playing, if you like the water at all.
> 
> The thing that is great about sports is that you get to meet people in a non dating situation.
> 
> In the UK, there are also hiking clubs. Awesome exercise on a weekend.


I did look in to it but there don't seem to be any clubs near me unfortunately. The photos were quite nice however haha .

I've never really been a sports guy, but I guess it could be a good way to meet women.

Again, there aren't any hiking clubs nearby, I think there are a few tennis clubs and golf clubs, but neither of those sports interest me. 

I'll think of something, I'm sure.

Really trying to dismiss these thoughts of contacting STBXW, but they seem rather persistent today. I didn't sleep well last night, and feel quite tired, which is probably making it more difficult.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Oneitis seems to be rearing it's ugly head today. I'm not sure how best to break it permanently.

It seems going out and dancing with women etc is a temporary solution.

I want to treat the cause, not the symptoms. 

Infact, scratch that. I am treating the cause, it's just taking time, but I never expected it to be broken overnight.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I found this, and I thought it might be worth a share.

It certainly applies to ONEitis  I may have this printed in A2 and hang it on my wall.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I found this, and I thought it might be worth a share.
> 
> It certainly applies to ONEitis  I may have this printed in A2 and hang it on my wall.
> 
> )


Hahahahah! I like it! That was me for _years_ after the first time - let that be a lesson to us all...

Anybody that says, "I just want someone to take care of me" - RUN... run like h*ll and don't look back. She'll have you if you look back.

You _can_ get through this and be that 'prince' if you choose to be.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Hahahahah! I like it! That was me for _years_ after the first time - let that be a lesson to us all...
> 
> Anybody that says, "I just want someone to take care of me" - RUN... run like h*ll and don't look back. She'll have you if you look back.
> 
> You _can_ get through this and be that 'prince' if you choose to be.


Indeed. 

My STBXW was very needy and it was a constant drain on my energy, but that was only because I allowed it to be. I allowed myself to put her above me. Never again!

I know I can get through this, and be the guy I want to be. Not necessarily that 'prince' but something to that effect .


----------



## Sandfly

1- Initiating contact would only tell her that you are still the weaker person, which isn't attractive. 
2- the path back leads nowhere, back to being used. But who knows what might be in your future if you take a new path on your own?
3- She's not the same person you used to know. They've got a switch in their brains which we don't have, where overnight they turn off all feelings, and project them onto someone new. I've heard that it's biology, chemicals... but whatever it is, it really has nothing to do with you and you can't change it. It's chemicals. It's like trying to convince a Heroin user that it might kill them, that they'll get aids. You can spend hours trying to convince them, they will agree, they will repeat your words back to you, they will see the hurt, they will cry over their kids pictures, they will promise to make amends, they will join a revivalist church or pick up a Koran, begin volunteering at the old folks home. 

An hour after waking up the next day, they're back at the squat sharing a needle.

In a small way, this is sort of happening to you too, you are addicted, but if you go back, you won't even get a high - there'll be no heroin waiting for you, just a beating off the dealer. But you won't remember the beating, and you'll still go back the day after hoping to score.

Her addiction to you 'switched off' and went elsewhere, and you're not to blame for her chemicals. But it looks like you still need to replace your chemicals, and exercise is part of that, and finding new interests. It's not to become more attractive, that will be a side-effect, don't you worry about that ! The point is, when you feel your strength growing, your mental strength will grow with it, thanks to that MAN-chemical testosterone.

When a guy has lots of testosterone, he doesn't even notice women anymore. They are no longer the sun around which he orbits, he no longer thinks about what they might be thinking about him. He just notices that 'magically' they are all treating him better - but even then his Man-chemicals tell him: don't be tempted, they are a distraction, get on with your goals. Eventually they start flushing and smiling coyly and mixing up their words whenever he talks to them.

Experience talking! 

In fact, I need to get back in shape myself, because sometimes I forget how that felt...
Gym tomorrow! Quit smoking again... er... in a week maybe.... (another chemical addiction!)


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> 1- Initiating contact would only tell her that you are still the weaker person, which isn't attractive.
> 2- the path back leads nowhere, back to being used. But who knows what might be in your future if you take a new path on your own?
> 3- She's not the same person you used to know. They've got a switch in their brains which we don't have, where overnight they turn off all feelings, and project them onto someone new. I've heard that it's biology, chemicals... but whatever it is, it really has nothing to do with you and you can't change it. It's chemicals. It's like trying to convince a Heroin user that it might kill them, that they'll get aids. You can spend hours trying to convince them, they will agree, they will repeat your words back to you, they will see the hurt, they will cry over their kids pictures, they will promise to make amends, they will join a revivalist church or pick up a Koran, begin volunteering at the old folks home.
> 
> An hour after waking up the next day, they're back at the squat sharing a needle.
> 
> In a small way, this is sort of happening to you too, you are addicted, but if you go back, you won't even get a high - there'll be no heroin waiting for you, just a beating off the dealer. But you won't remember the beating, and you'll still go back the day after hoping to score.
> 
> Her addiction to you 'switched off' and went elsewhere, and you're not to blame for her chemicals. But it looks like you still need to replace your chemicals, and exercise is part of that, and finding new interests. It's not to become more attractive, that will be a side-effect, don't you worry about that ! The point is, when you feel your strength growing, your mental strength will grow with it, thanks to that MAN-chemical testosterone.
> 
> When a guy has lots of testosterone, he doesn't even notice women anymore. They are no longer the sun around which he orbits, he no longer thinks about what they might be thinking about him. He just notices that 'magically' they are all treating him better - but even then his Man-chemicals tell him: don't be tempted, they are a distraction, get on with your goals. Eventually they start flushing and smiling coyly and mixing up their words whenever he talks to them.
> 
> Experience talking!
> 
> In fact, I need to get back in shape myself, because sometimes I forget how that felt...
> Gym tomorrow! Quit smoking again... er... in a week maybe.... (another chemical addiction!)


Oddly, I was just reading about a scientific study on the similarities between dopamine (the chemical the brain releases when in love) and heroin. They are shockingly similar chemicals. 

Your points, 1, 2 and 3 are all valid and correct.

Regarding testosterone - I was just also reading about that in the context of manliness. Studies have shown that women are more attracted to the scent of a male with higher testosterone levels. I always "feel" my T levels go through the roof when I'm in the gym, and in general since I've been working out I feel more masculine, and attractive. With that comes confidence and bravado (another benefit of T). But given my current situation, it seems I want to try and apply that confidence, bravado and "can do" attitude to fixing my marriage. 

But, at the same time I realise in order for the marriage to be fixed, _she_ needs to be fixed, and I know that is something beyond my scope of control. 

So what's a fella to do? Take each day as it comes, ride the waves (hopefully not just waves... if you catch my drift ) and roll with the punches. That's all there is for it.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> I always "feel" my T levels go through the roof when I'm in the gym, and in general since I've been working out I feel more masculine, and attractive. ....
> 
> ....But, at the same time I realise in order for the marriage to be fixed, _she_ needs to be fixed, and I know that is something beyond my scope of control.
> 
> So what's a fella to do? Take each day as it comes, ride the waves (hopefully not just waves... if you catch my drift ) and roll with the punches. That's all there is for it.


Yeah, she's a drug, but she's also a poison. I know that, from day to day, you will not see the 'difference' in your appearance, and this is the danger. You will become discouraged. But you see yourself on a DAILY basis. Other people, who see you once a month, once every six months they will be thinking

"JESUS CHRIST HE'S LOOKING WAY BETTER THAN BEFORE!" 

while you'll be thinking - "huh. Not much change this week. Is this gym-stuff even working??"

Before I first started going to gym, while at Uni, I was fat and I didn't even know it. How weird right? But when I look back at those pictures of me - WHO IS THAT GUY?

I remember I was at a wedding reception, about a year after I lost the weight. I was p!ssed off my head. My partner's cousin had a wife, and she was there at the wedding.

She starts hitting on me in front of her husband, and trying to get me to dance. That's OK, so far, so normal. But then she was trying to kiss me with everyone watching - With everyone watching me, man! How Awkward!!!

Needless to say, she didn't attend any future family functions,
But that was the power of testosterone (no steroids BTW, you don't want to end up with tits). That she would openly sacrifice her dignity to get a kiss.... at a wedding, no less.

So day by day? No. You'll get discouraged. Monthly goals? Better way to go.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Yeah, she's a drug, but she's also a poison. I know that, from day to day, you will not see the 'difference' in your appearance, and this is the danger. You will become discouraged. But you see yourself on a DAILY basis. Other people, who see you once a month, once every six months they will be thinking
> 
> "JESUS CHRIST HE'S LOOKING WAY BETTER THAN BEFORE!"
> 
> while you'll be thinking - "huh. Not much change this week. Is this gym-stuff even working??"
> 
> Before I first started going to gym, while at Uni, I was fat and I didn't even know it. How weird right? But when I look back at those pictures of me - WHO IS THAT GUY?
> 
> I remember I was at a wedding reception, about a year after I lost the weight. I was p!ssed off my head. My partner's cousin had a wife, and she was there at the wedding.
> 
> She starts hitting on me in front of her husband, and trying to get me to dance. That's OK, so far, so normal. But then she was trying to kiss me with everyone watching - With everyone watching me, man! How Awkward!!!
> 
> Needless to say, she didn't attend any future family functions,
> But that was the power of testosterone (no steroids BTW, you don't want to end up with tits). That she would openly sacrifice her dignity to get a kiss.... at a wedding, no less.
> 
> So day by day? No. You'll get discouraged. Monthly goals? Better way to go.


Indeed she is, all drugs are poisons . I've been training for 5 or 6 weeks now, and am starting to notice differences in myself, which is pleasing. One of the huge benefits of the gym for me is the mental shift that comes with the T boost.

Back when I was 17 I weighed quite a bit (18 stone) and I decided to clean up my diet and exercise, at my lowest weight I was just over 10 stone, which is not a good look on a 6'2 guy. But I guess from years of being fat, and having self-esteem and self-image issues I took it too far. 

Haha yeah that does sound pretty awkward, sounds like you handled it well .

No steroids for me! I am taking D-Aspartic Acid (All natural, amino acid, tastes horrible) though to boost T levels, and as a precautionary measure I'm taking an OTC aromatose inhibitor to stop my body ramping up estrogen to match the T levels. Almost a week in to a 6 week cycle on these. I did my research and most sources cite no need for the AI, but I didn't want to take any risks.

My friend who I train with is big in to body building, he's huge. I'm aiming for more of a Ryan Gosling/Brad Pitt in Fight Club look .

Day by day with regards to STBXW and my ever shifting feelings I meant. Month by month is a good measure at the gym!


----------



## Sandfly

That OTC - what's the brand name, and what are the risks? I've noticed that at a certain point I start taking on fat as well as muscle, about three months in. I suspect other hormones coming up to match the Testosterone... and, maybe this would help?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> That OTC - what's the brand name, and what are the risks? I've noticed that at a certain point I start taking on fat as well as muscle, about three months in. I suspect other hormones coming up to match the Testosterone... and, maybe this would help?


It's called PES Erase.

The only reported side effects are dry joints from dosing too highly as the bottle only says "1-3 caps daily", it can be a bit of trial and error, I just played it safe and opted to take two a day, one morning, one evening. I'm getting on fine with it - I also take a fish oil capsule to negate the chances of this problem .

I got it from Amazon, I think it's around £24.99 a bottle.

Edit: It also has a beneficial side effect in that it lowers cortisol levels. Cortisol inhibits T production, so just taking Erase will boost T in a roundabout way.


----------



## Sandfly

Thanks fella!

I will give that a go, together with the fish juice.

I suppose a health food shop will have it too, right? Don't wanna use Amazon you see.

Any other info - like a pile of estrogen hitting you when you come off it? After all, if it's a suppressant...


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Thanks fella!
> 
> I will give that a go, together with the fish juice.
> 
> I suppose a health food shop will have it too, right? Don't wanna use Amazon you see.
> 
> Any other info - like a pile of estrogen hitting you when you come off it? After all, if it's a suppressant...


It's worth trying a health food shop or a supplement shop . I did look for it in the local Holland and Barrett but they didn't have it. If you can't find it you can always google alternative Aromatose Inhibitors. There's a herb called L-Dopa which I believe inhibits, but don't quote me on that. 

I order most of my stuff from Amazon for cost & convenience . 

It doesn't suppress estrogen completely, it inhibits the body's natural function of aromatisation (turning T in to E). There shouldn't be any ill effects when coming off of it - read up about it online


----------



## Sandfly

Appreciate the info, will look into the literature next week.

By the way, does the new you know how to cook healthy? It's another thing which will accelerate your fitness and strength training to feed yourself right.
It's also another accomplishment which you can add with little effort that makes you both more of a confident and independent man. Finally, much much later in the future, it gives you the option of entertaining new friends and companions at home.

If you're new to good cooking, I recommend 1. Delia Smith and 2. this one:



You should be able to order it through your library, to see if it's right for you. I chose this particular edition and publisher, because it gives TONS of incidental information on nutritional value, 'what not to do' etc. Finally, it starts with the most basic thing: How to boil vegetables! Sound silly? Well, plenty of self-taught people I know can't even boil a carrot without making it mushy and tasteless!

A good man is an independent and capable bloke...
Real men cook!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Appreciate the info, will look into the literature next week.
> 
> By the way, does the new you know how to cook healthy? It's another thing which will accelerate your fitness and strength training to feed yourself right.
> It's also another accomplishment which you can add with little effort that makes you both more of a confident and independent man. Finally, much much later in the future, it gives you the option of entertaining new friends and companions at home.
> 
> If you're new to good cooking, I recommend 1. Delia Smith and 2. this one:
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to order it through your library, to see if it's right for you. I chose this particular edition and publisher, because it gives TONS of incidental information on nutritional value, 'what not to do' etc. Finally, it starts with the most basic thing: How to boil vegetables! Sound silly? Well, plenty of self-taught people I know can't even boil a carrot without making it mushy and tasteless!
> 
> A good man is an independent and capable bloke...
> Real men cook!


I can indeed cook - STBXW hated cooking so I used to cook all of our meals 

At the moment due to time constraints I tend to cook quick, easy and healthy meals. Albeit small meals as I eat 5 smaller meals a day roughly to try to maintain an anabolic state.

I actually really enjoy cooking - but only get time to cook something really snazzy at the weekends.


----------



## Sandfly

You cook - great stuff. Tell you what I made just now - a stew which I can eat over several days. Think of the nutritional value of this:

Cabbage (lots) - better guts, anti-cancer in men, slimming in women
Leeks - Flavour
Nettle leaves - Vitamins and minerals
white beans - better guts, complementary protein to grains
Millet - iron
Garlic (4 cloves) - blood cleaner
Mushrooms - Vitamins and minerals
A bit of lard (keep vitamins in the veggies)
Pork steaks, fat removed and given to neighbour's cat.

The main Q is 'how many ways can I get cabbage and beans into my diet?' 

Here's how your kids turn out on cabbages, beans, beetroot and rye - instead of kebabs and chip butties:



Not to mention that so many 'world's strongest men' are from cabbage-muncher countries?


----------



## Honorbound

Sandfly said:


> You should be able to order it through your library, to see if it's right for you. I chose this particular edition and publisher, because it gives TONS of incidental information on nutritional value, 'what not to do' etc. Finally, it starts with the most basic thing: How to boil vegetables! Sound silly? Well, plenty of self-taught people I know can't even boil a carrot without making it mushy and tasteless!


I always thought people did carrots that way to make them palatable...


----------



## Honorbound

I asked my doctor once about nutrition. How to tell what is good for you and what isn't.

He said, "Son, if it tastes good - spit it out"

:rofl:


----------



## Sandfly

Honorbound said:


> I asked my doctor once about nutrition. How to tell what is good for you and what isn't.
> 
> He said, "Son, if it tastes good - spit it out"
> 
> :rofl:


Love it!!

I read somewhere why women prefer jerks -

For the same reason they like chocolate:

"Tastes good - not good for you!"


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


>


Screw the cooking, I'm joining the military. Those legs :O.

In all seriousness, that recipe sounds pretty good. When I do cook I do so in bulk as I have little time to cook most weeknights. I tend to cook up a batch of something at the weekend and eat it for a few days.



> He said, "Son, if it tastes good - spit it out"


Funny, I said this to STBXW, in an entirely different context . Bwahahah.

I always make sure that I check the nutritional values of whatever I eat, and check ingredients for preservatives etc!


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm considering stopping IC now I'm at a better place.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm considering stopping IC now I'm at a better place.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Bad move


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Decrease the frequency. Don't stop yet.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Perhaps a decrease in frequency is the best way forward.

I feel like I'm in a much better position emotionally and mentally now, and a weekly IC session is making a bit of a dent in my finances.

I'm more comfortable with myself now, and I realise my POS tendencies and I know what I need to do to correct them (and I'm doing so).

I have another appointment scheduled for next week, I'll discuss decreasing the frequency of the sessions then.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So today is a good day.

I haven't longed for or missed STBXW one bit. I have thought about her at times, but I haven't _missed_ her. :smthumbup:

I've noticed a decrease in frequency of my moments of longing, of missing her and entertaining thoughts of R.

I feel like I'm truly getting towards the end of my tunnel now, I'm looking forward to emerging in to the light. The air is stale in here.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> So today is a good day.
> 
> I haven't longed for or missed STBXW one bit. I have thought about her at times, but I haven't _missed_ her. :smthumbup:
> 
> I've noticed a decrease in frequency of my moments of longing, of missing her and entertaining thoughts of R.
> 
> I feel like I'm truly getting towards the end of my tunnel now, I'm looking forward to emerging in to the light. The air is stale in here.


Awesome. You can always come back to give updates on things you've learnt (like new songs) or things you've realised or your gym goals and stuff.

This naturally matches your shift in focus, from fickle females to working on yourself and your goals.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Awesome. You can always come back to give updates on things you've learnt (like new songs) or things you've realised or your gym goals and stuff.
> 
> This naturally matches your shift in focus, from fickle females to working on yourself and your goals.


Currently my goal in the gym is go get a little bigger and a little leaner, so far it's going well.

As far as songs go, I'm still learning the one I posted earlier in the thread, I haven't had much time to play this week, I get more time at weekends though.

My focus definitely is shifting now, before it used to take some amount of mental effort to focus on myself, but now it's almost second nature. I still have times where I think about STBXW, and the occasional thought of reconciliation pops in to my head, but I just remind myself of everything I've learnt and push those thoughts aside.

I've noticed also that I tend to miss her more/think about her more when I'm sexually frustrated. If I can break that physical attachment, I think I'll finally be free of her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, it may be pointless but I'm going to ask some advice on a situation that may not, and probably won't even happen.

With Christmas fast approaching, it occurs to me that this may be a time in which STBXW makes contact with me, perhaps just a "Merry Christmas" and nothing more.

If so, what would you guys suggest? Should I respond in kind, or should I ignore it?


----------



## LongWalk

Ignore. What about the papers for your divorce, are they all completed? Did she file?

You should plunge ahead and build up other interests to help you forget her.

At this point you hardly see reconciliation even she makes some half-hearted attempt to connect again.

She is probably having sex with other men. You need to keep the 180 strong.


----------



## helolover

I got reached out to on by birthday and on T-giving. I just responded "Thanks." 

No need to take contact as an opening to R.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> So, it may be pointless but I'm going to ask some advice on a situation that may not, and probably won't even happen.
> 
> With Christmas fast approaching, it occurs to me that this may be a time in which STBXW makes contact with me, perhaps just a "Merry Christmas" and nothing more.
> 
> If so, what would you guys suggest? Should I respond in kind, or should I ignore it?


I ignore it all. But that's just me.

I NEVER reach out unless it's about my daughter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Ignore. What about the papers for your divorce, are they all completed? Did she file?
> 
> You should plunge ahead and build up other interests to help you forget her.
> 
> At this point you hardly see reconciliation even she makes some half-hearted attempt to connect again.
> 
> She is probably having sex with other men. You need to keep the 180 strong.


Yeah, you're right. Divorce papers haven't been signed or anything yet. They can't be filed until May 2014 anyway.

I'll maintain the 180, even over Christmas.



> I'm expecting the same thing. So what I was thinking is that...
> 
> The nice guy wants to respond because 'that's what a decent person does'. But then I think ...
> 
> What is the motive on her side (conscious motive or not it doesn't matter) and because it can't be out of true friendship (remember that person you used to know didn't fade away gradually, she evaporated) her motive must be something else:
> 
> *To make herself feel better (ego stroke)
> *To see if you can still be dangled like a puppet (ego stroke)
> *To follow up with more questions to nosy on what you're up to (control)
> 
> All the signs point to manipulation to give herself a boost, for one reason or another.
> 
> Let's say hypothetically that consciously, she sees herself as reaching out to someone she sort of recognises she has wronged. That's a HUGE if, by the way.
> Even in this scenario, what would the *effect* of acknowledgement be in practice? It would say:
> 
> "He forgives me. I can't be that bad. I've done nothing wrong after all, because look, he still thinks we're friends."
> 
> You've given her an ego-stroke, but she won't see it as a just a decent gesture, remember anything she does, it's all about 'her' and you are just one of the actors in her play. And you don't want that, because she keeps giving you the villain's parts!
> 
> In other words, it's rewarding her for her rubbish behaviour, and is a green light for her to carry on picking you up and putting you down whenever the fancy takes her.
> 
> Put yourself first, always, then much much later, when you are ready, you'll have an abundance of compassion to share or not share according to who has EARNED it.


Some good insight there Sandfly, I hadn't looked at it from that perspective. I'm not going to give her an ego boost, or let her pry in my life (hence blocking her facebook!).

Whatever her reason may be for contacting me, no good can come of it for me, so I won't engage in it.



> I got reached out to on by birthday and on T-giving. I just responded "Thanks."
> 
> No need to take contact as an opening to R.


Believe me I wouldn't assume she wanted to R just because she contacted me hehe. More to the point, I don't want to R anymore. Even if I were to R, I just couldn't risk that she'd put me through all this again years down the line. I've wasted enough of my life on her, she doesn't deserve any more of my time. I have no need to keep things civil with her as we have no children. 

Honestly I hope she doesn't contact me, it's a lot more difficult to maintain NC when STBXW initiates contact. I could quite happily never hear from her again, for my own peace of mind and my own progression towards becoming the man that I want to be.

I'd like to make my first Christmas without STBXW a good one.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> I'd like to make my first Christmas without STBXW a good one.


I watched The Karate Kid Marathon last Christmas.

Sky is the limit for you champ.

You are making quicker progress than I did. I'm sure you'll be divorced first than I will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm going to get drunk and play games with family.

And eat loads .


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, day 18 of NC is over. Feeling pretty good about it and I'm realising more and more that when I want to contact STBXW now, it's only for sexual purposes. I think it's safe to say that I am now emotionally detached - however an email or a letter could change that so I'm hoping I receive nothing. In fact if it's an email, if I can muster the strength and self-discipline, I'll delete it without reading it. 

To be honest it's not worth worrying about anyway as it's unlikely to even happen. I'd imagine she's either still sick or lost in an affair fog. 

Also wondering if obtaining proof of infidelity may have helped me detach sooner. Unfortunately, every time I tell myself she cheated, a small voice in my head says "No, you _suspect_ she cheated". The time for proving it has passed now anyway.


----------



## Conrad

You'll know it's really true when you don't have to announce it


----------



## GotLifeBack

> You'll know it's really true when you don't have to announce it


The emotional detachment?


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, today I am missing my STBXW like crazy. I drank quite a bit last night and am hungover, I'm pretty sure that the missing her, the longing and the urge to make contact are a result of the depressant effects of alcohol. I also only got 3 hours sleep last night which is probably contributing.

I feel like I've taken a huge leap backwards today and it's frustrating me. I know I'll be fine tomorrow, but still trying to tell myself to snap out of it.

Looking forward to a nice early night tonight. :sleeping:


----------



## GotLifeBack

Feeling better after a good sleep. Still not 100% but I'm sure I will be after I've hit the gym later.

Not sure why I felt the way I did, maybe because I was exhausted and I wanted nothing more than to just cuddle up on the sofa and watch TV all day, but had nobody to cuddle up with. Anyway, yesterday was a rough day.

3 weeks of NC today, which I'm quite pleased about. I came so close to breaking NC yesterday but I'm really glad that I didn't.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Hmm, having similar feelings to yesterday again now. They aren't as strong, but they are definitely there.

I'm feeling like I want to try and save my marriage, but I wouldn't even know where to begin anyway.

The more I think about things, I just can't see myself ever feeling about anyone else they way I felt about her. I know that's not right, and I know I shouldn't think like that, but it's just what I'm feeling right now! 

I think I need some 2x4s.


----------



## Honorbound

Always here for you, brother.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Haha thanks .

The feeling is subsiding a little more now, it still sucks though. I really need to stop dwelling in the past today. It's driving me completely insane. Some days I'm still sat thinking "WTF happened to my marriage?".

I guess some backsliding is normal, it's just frustrating though. At least this time I haven't broken NC .


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm feeling like I want to try and save my marriage, but I wouldn't even know where to begin anyway.


Hypothetically, how could someone save a marriage with an unwilling spouse?

Is it even possible?


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Haha thanks .
> 
> The feeling is subsiding a little more now, it still sucks though. I really need to stop dwelling in the past today. It's driving me completely insane. Some days I'm still sat thinking "WTF happened to my marriage?".
> 
> I guess some backsliding is normal, it's just frustrating though. At least this time I haven't broken NC .


Yes. Me too... and it does suck.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Yes. Me too... and it does suck.


Sure does.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> Hypothetically, how could someone save a marriage with an unwilling spouse?
> 
> Is it even possible?


Can't happen. 

It's why it's why we insist that you work on yourself. 

I know you have heard it 3000 times already. It must be driven home. So we'll mention it 3000 more times if it comes to that... it's what we're here for. 

You're doing great, but you still have that annoying little "WWB" asking: "how could someone save a marriage with an unwilling spouse".

We need to duck tape that little co dependent version of you and throw him in the river.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> Can't happen.
> 
> It's why it's why we insist that you work on yourself.
> 
> I know you have heard it 3000 times already. It must be driven home. So we'll mention it 3000 more times if it comes to that... it's what we're here for.
> 
> You're doing great, but you still have that annoying little "WWB" asking: "how could someone save a marriage with an unwilling spouse".
> 
> We need to duck tape that little co dependent version of you and throw him in the river.


Yeah, please do. I don't like that version of me. 

I caved, sent STBXW a short message just saying that I hope she's feeling better now. Immediately regretted it. For the first time I'm actually hoping that she _doesn't_ reply. No mention of me, or of our marriage or R, but I still majorly regret it.

I just ripped my own balls off and handed them to her on a silver platter.

So p*ssed off at myself right now . Really disappointed. Literally feel like I want to scream!


----------



## GotLifeBack

I really need to get myself together.

Why do I miss someone who treated me so badly? Why should I feel like I want to try save the marriage, when she doesn't deserve me? If anyone should be putting the work in, it's _her_.

So, tonight I think I need some quiet time after the gym, and I'll re-read NMMNG.

I also ordered myself a book about how to become confident today, I figure it can't hurt. I'll look at that tomorrow.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, please do. I don't like that version of me.
> 
> I caved, sent STBXW a short message just saying that I hope she's feeling better now. Immediately regretted it. For the first time I'm actually hoping that she _doesn't_ reply. No mention of me, or of our marriage or R, but I still majorly regret it.
> 
> I just ripped my own balls off and handed them to her on a silver platter.
> 
> So p*ssed off at myself right now . Really disappointed. Literally feel like I want to scream!


Hey WWB, don't beat yourself up over it. Just accept it and move on. It will happen, where you will reach out some times, but as I am sure you can see, it will and has become less of something that you do or want to do.


----------



## Honorbound

This was in my thread, but works here too:



Conrad said:


> Brother... this is a process.
> 
> Simply get back up, dust yourself off and vow "never again"
> 
> She actually gets pleasure out of the encounters where you lose emotional control.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I really need to get myself together.
> 
> Why do I miss someone who treated me so badly? Why should I feel like I want to try save the marriage, when she doesn't deserve me? If anyone should be putting the work in, it's _her_.
> 
> So, tonight I think I need some quiet time after the gym, and I'll re-read NMMNG.
> 
> I also ordered myself a book about how to become confident today, I figure it can't hurt. I'll look at that tomorrow.


Well I don't know if the same applies to you, but for me, I think sometimes I want him back because mentally, after being with someone for a while and getting use to them, etc, at times it appears far easier in some way to see yourself working it out with them than going at it alone, meeting new people, starting over, etc.

Maybe that is part of it.

I think you are being a little too hard on yourself today. This is a process. Sometimes you will miss her. Take comfort in the fact that over time, it will be less and less.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Hey WWB, don't beat yourself up over it. Just accept it and move on. It will happen, where you will reach out some times, but as I am sure you can see, it will and has become less of something that you do or want to do.


Yeah you're probably right. Can't believe I did that though, I'm determined not to let this turn in to a full scale backslide. I was doing pretty well.



> Well I don't know if the same applies to you, but for me, I think sometimes I want him back because mentally, after being with someone for a while and getting use to them, etc, at times it appears far easier in some way to see yourself working it out with them than going at it alone, meeting new people, starting over, etc.
> 
> Maybe that is part of it.


Yeah, this is definitely part of it. I thought the emotional roller coaster was coming to an end, but I guess not. 

Must remember to stay at 50k at all times.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I have an idea, maybe I'll break my fingers to stop me doing stupid things in future .

On a serious note - how can I stop being angry at myself?


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> On a serious note - how can I stop being angry at myself?


By forgiving yourself. 

How about that?


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I have an idea, maybe I'll break my fingers to stop me doing stupid things in future .
> 
> On a serious note - how can I stop being angry at myself?


You'll know you're "done" with IC when you are no longer angry with yourself.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, please do. I don't like that version of me.
> 
> I caved, sent STBXW a short message just saying that I hope she's feeling better now. Immediately regretted it. For the first time I'm actually hoping that she _doesn't_ reply. No mention of me, or of our marriage or R, but I still majorly regret it.
> 
> I just ripped my own balls off and handed them to her on a silver platter.
> 
> So p*ssed off at myself right now . Really disappointed. Literally feel like I want to scream!


WWB,

I want to point something out to you.

ReGroup was not always the tower of strength you now see behind his moniker.

If you start reading his thread on page #1, you won't recognize him one bit.

Somewhere around page #50... yes... page #50.... he said, "I think I'm starting to understand this codependent thing..."

Be patient with yourself.

And, remember what I told you a few pages back.

You will have "arrived" when you no longer feel the need to proclaim it. You shouldn't seek approval from us either.

True self-love comes from within.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> By forgiving yourself.
> 
> How about that?


Is it as simple as just shrugging it off and resolving to do better? I feel like I've failed myself. I'm probably being too self-critical. Slipped back in to "Nice Guy" mode. I'm being too self-critical.

It's not like I sent her a message declaring my undying love for her. It was as simple as a "Hey, I hope you're feeling better now". But... I ask myself, do I hope that? Do I care how she's feeling? Or was I just saying that because it's the "Nice" thing to do? Was it a covert contract? Was it just an attempt to say "Hey, current Mrs. WWB, I'm still here you know!".

I'm questioning my motives and the true nature of what I've been feeling over the last couple of days. Maybe it's a mixture of all of the above.



> You'll know you're "done" with IC when you are no longer angry with yourself.


Good job I didn't fire my IC then! .

I need to be stronger. I know I can do it, too.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> I want to point something out to you.
> 
> ReGroup was not always the tower of strength you now see behind his moniker.
> 
> If you start reading his thread on page #1, you won't recognize him one bit.
> 
> Somewhere around page #50... yes... page #50.... he said, "I think I'm starting to understand this codependent thing..."
> 
> Be patient with yourself.
> 
> And, remember what I told you a few pages back.
> 
> You will have "arrived" when you no longer feel the need to proclaim it. You shouldn't seek approval from us either.
> 
> True self-love comes from within.


Does anything other than pure gold come out of your keyboard Conrad? 

I know my posts have been a bit all over the place of late, my head has been in such a mess since yesterday. I'm not sure what triggered it either, I'll look over my journal later to see if I can spot anything.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Does anything other than pure gold come out of your keyboard Conrad?
> 
> I know my posts have been a bit all over the place of late, my head has been in such a mess since yesterday. I'm not sure what triggered it either, I'll look over my journal later to see if I can spot anything.


The mental self-discipline required when you feel this way is to get back to 50k and observe your own reactions.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> The mental self-discipline required when you feel this way is to get back to 50k and observe your own reactions.


Yeah, it seems I just got swept away with the emotions.

I need to get a handle on my emotions. I need to make it a habit to take a step back and observe anytime I feel _anything_.

I need to know what caused it, why I allow myself to feel it, what I could possibly do about it, if I want to do something about it.

I would say that I need to observe any outcomes or fallout too, but I feel that perhaps that would be too calculating on my part. Too "Nice Guy". If I envision a certain outcome, I'll always chose to react in the manner most "favourable" to me given how I'm feeling - covert contract.

That needs to stop.

I need to make my decisions and react purely out of self-preservation.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, it seems I just got swept away with the emotions.
> 
> I need to get a handle on my emotions. I need to make it a habit to take a step back and observe anytime I feel _anything_.
> 
> I need to know what caused it, why I allow myself to feel it, what I could possibly do about it, if I want to do something about it.
> 
> I would say that I need to observe any outcomes or fallout too, but I feel that perhaps that would be too calculating on my part. Too "Nice Guy". If I envision a certain outcome, I'll always chose to react in the manner most "favourable" to me given how I'm feeling - covert contract.
> 
> That needs to stop.
> 
> I need to make my decisions and react purely out of self-preservation.


That sort of detachment makes it possible to choose your response... and respond in ways that you are ok with.

It's a liberating feeling to do that - instead of the panicky sort of stopgap fixing associated with codependence


----------



## LongWalk

The trick is to be detached but not indifferent to the world.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> That sort of detachment makes it possible to choose your response... and respond in ways that you are ok with.
> 
> It's a liberating feeling to do that - instead of the panicky sort of stopgap fixing associated with codependence


Indeed, I'm working on it.

STBXW has replied. I can't bring myself to read it though. I think perhaps I need to think about whether I want to look at it or just delete it. Time to get back to 50k.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed, I'm working on it.
> 
> STBXW has replied. I can't bring myself to read it though. I think perhaps I need to think about whether I want to look at it or just delete it. Time to get back to 50k.


Get to 50k... then open it and share it with us.

Observe your reaction - and report on that also.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, it seems I just got swept away with the emotions.
> 
> I need to get a handle on my emotions. I need to make it a habit to take a step back and observe anytime I feel _anything_.
> 
> I need to know what caused it, why I allow myself to feel it, what I could possibly do about it, if I want to do something about it.
> 
> I would say that I need to observe any outcomes or fallout too, but I feel that perhaps that would be too calculating on my part. Too "Nice Guy". If I envision a certain outcome, I'll always chose to react in the manner most "favourable" to me given how I'm feeling - covert contract.
> 
> That needs to stop.
> 
> I need to make my decisions and react purely out of self-preservation.


I'll give you an example... 

Last night Mrs. RG texts me past midnight 2x: "hey" and then 15 mintues later ... "Are you asleep???"

8 months ago, I would have jumped out of my bed to answer it... Now?... If it doesn't have anything to do w/ my daughter or our never ending divorce... I don't want to know nor do I care what she wants. 

You'll get there soon... stay the course.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Get to 50k... then open it and share it with us.
> 
> Observe your reaction - and report on that also.


A sound plan. Firstly I'll put what I wrote to her. I sent it via WhatsApp as I have her phone number blocked.

"Hi, I don't know if you've blocked me on WhatsApp or not, but I just wanted to say hey and that I hope you're feeling better now. If you want to reply, feel free, if not, I understand. You might not even get this message anyway "

Haven't looked at her reply as yet.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> I'll give you an example...
> 
> Last night Mrs. RG texts me past midnight 2x: "hey" and then 15 mintues later ... "Are you asleep???"
> 
> 8 months ago, I would have jumped out of my bed to answer it... Now?... If it doesn't have anything to do w/ my daughter or our never ending divorce... I don't want to know nor do I care what she wants.
> 
> You'll get there soon... stay the course.


I'm trying to RG . We've only been separated for 3.5 months now, which although it feels like an eternity, really isn't that long.

I look forward to getting to where you are. It sounds peaceful, at least in a sense.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> "Hi, I don't know if you've blocked me on WhatsApp or not, but I just wanted to say hey and that I hope you're feeling better now. If you want to reply, feel free, if not, I understand. You might not even get this message anyway "


Her reply:

"Hi, no I didn't think to block WhatsApp. What's up? Also just to let you know I'm going to drop a box of stuff outside your house this week that contains some bits of yours"

My gut feeling upon reading this was "She's coming to the house????" then I took a step back, and I think I'm going to tell her to dispose of the stuff, I haven't noticed it's gone whatever it is so it can't be important. It's probably just the books that I told her to throw out before.


----------



## GotLifeBack

WantWifeBack said:


> "Hi, no I didn't think to block WhatsApp. What's up? Also just to let you know I'm going to drop a box of stuff outside your house this week that contains some bits of yours"


My response:

"Nothing's up, just wanted to say I hoped you were feeling better or on the mend. Don't worry about the stuff, just dispose of it. Whatever it is I haven't missed it yet so it must be unimportant."

If I'm honest, I don't want her anywhere near my home, considering she tried to take one of my cats without my permission, and the stunt she pulled with our dog.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, it seems I just got swept away with the emotions.
> 
> I need to get a handle on my emotions. I need to make it a habit to take a step back and observe anytime I feel _anything_.
> 
> I need to know what caused it, why I allow myself to feel it, what I could possibly do about it, if I want to do something about it.
> 
> I would say that I need to observe any outcomes or fallout too, but I feel that perhaps that would be too calculating on my part. Too "Nice Guy". If I envision a certain outcome, I'll always chose to react in the manner most "favourable" to me given how I'm feeling - covert contract.
> 
> That needs to stop.
> 
> I need to make my decisions and react purely out of self-preservation.


Some advice from my therapist, to me albeit, but it might help you. Sometimes, when you catch yourself doing something you don't like or thinking something you don't like, just observe that you are doing/thinking in that way. Don't do anything different, otherwise you are forcing change upon yourself too strongly, just observe what you are doing.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Some advice from my therapist, to me albeit, but it might help you. Sometimes, when you catch yourself doing something you don't like or thinking something you don't like, just observe that you are doing/thinking in that way. Don't do anything different, otherwise you are forcing change upon yourself too strongly, just observe what you are doing.


That's some good advice actually - I'll have to remember that.

So, when I got out of the gym I had 3 messages from STBXW.

Me: Nothing's up, just wanted to say I hoped you were feeling better or on the mend. Don't worry about the stuff, just dispose of it. Whatever it is I haven't missed it yet so it must be unimportant.

STBXW: Do you still have MIL & FIL's stairgate?

STBXW: & thank you, that's kind  I'm feeling a bit better but not back at work yet.

STBXW: Oh & the stuff I've got includes some paperwork & books.

Me: I've arranged for my dad to drop the stairgate off after work one night this week. Honestly don't worry about the stuff, if I ever feel the need to re-read them I can replace them. You can either keep them or throw them.

I tried to stay at 50k and be calm and dispassionate, almost apathetic really. The only reason I'm returning the stairgate is because it's MIL's and FIL's.

Edit: she replied with - "Okay, that's good. Thanks."

And thus ends the conversation, I have no need to reply to that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So I've been pondering STBXW's replies - not to look for any hidden meaning or anything - quite the opposite.

There's no emotion, no feeling there. She didn't want to talk to me, she clearly doesn't miss me (which was evident anyway, otherwise she would have made contact). She didn't ask any questions about me (unsurprising really).

I think I needed this reminder of the reality of her, I think over the last couple days the idealised version of her evicted the reality of her from my mind. Memories of how she _was _overpowering the truth of how she _is_.

Again I've been reminded that she isn't who I thought she was, that everything we ever shared was an act, a lie. Her NPD traits drew me in at first, and those same traits chewed me up and spat me back out.

For the last couple days, I haven't been able to see the wood for the trees. Today I see an ocean of 2x4s .


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Accept that it's over.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Accept that it's over.


I know that it's over  I've known it for a while, just a minor backslide this weekend which I pulled myself out of before it got out of hand.


----------



## Sandfly

Conrad said:


> observe your own reactions.


Really agree with this one. This is another route to confidence and self-control. 

Observe and don't identify with them. Don't mistake your casual thoughts and passing feelings as being the real 'you'.
They are just things that 'happen', you accept that they are there, but you don't let them influence you, get you down etc. You just acknowledge them, observe them, and they pass.
When they pass, you then 'realise' that you are in control now, ... you are not the wandering thoughts and feelings (which are natural, and can't be suppressed), you are above/beyond them and you watch them from another place.

Like a man watching the clouds in the sky, he doesn't say "this cloud is me, this cloud is out to get me etc." He just says: oh look, an interesting cloud. Then it slowly drifts off. You watch the clouds inside you and realise that they are just your chemicals and your subconscious and all that sh*t, not you.

When you can recognise that you are angry or sad for example, and acknowledge it, and 'feel' it without getting sucked into an inner dialogue, then it just disappears. It's amazing how it works.


----------



## Honorbound

Sandfly said:


> Really agree with this one. This is another route to confidence and self-control.
> 
> Observe and don't identify with them. Don't mistake your casual thoughts and passing feelings as being the real 'you'.
> They are just things that 'happen', you accept that they are there, but you don't let them influence you, get you down etc. You just acknowledge them, observe them, and they pass.
> When they pass, you then 'realise' that you are in control now, ... you are not the wandering thoughts and feelings (which are natural, and can't be suppressed), you are above/beyond them and you watch them from another place.
> 
> Like a man watching the clouds in the sky, he doesn't say "this cloud is me, this cloud is out to get me etc." He just says: oh look, an interesting cloud. Then it slowly drifts off. You watch the clouds inside you and realise that they are just your chemicals and your subconscious and all that sh*t, not you.
> 
> When you can recognise that you are angry or sad for example, and acknowledge it, and 'feel' it without getting sucked into an inner dialogue, then it just disappears. It's amazing how it works.


... sometimes that cloud IS OUT TO GET YOU!!! MWAAAHAHAHA!!

Sorry, couldn't help it. 

Very good points, Sandfly. It is occasionally hard to put into practice 'during the moment', but an excellent technique to put into practice. Hopefully it will become second nature.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Really agree with this one. This is another route to confidence and self-control.
> 
> Observe and don't identify with them. Don't mistake your casual thoughts and passing feelings as being the real 'you'.
> They are just things that 'happen', you accept that they are there, but you don't let them influence you, get you down etc. You just acknowledge them, observe them, and they pass.
> When they pass, you then 'realise' that you are in control now, ... you are not the wandering thoughts and feelings (which are natural, and can't be suppressed), you are above/beyond them and you watch them from another place.
> 
> Like a man watching the clouds in the sky, he doesn't say "this cloud is me, this cloud is out to get me etc." He just says: oh look, an interesting cloud. Then it slowly drifts off. You watch the clouds inside you and realise that they are just your chemicals and your subconscious and all that sh*t, not you.
> 
> When you can recognise that you are angry or sad for example, and acknowledge it, and 'feel' it without getting sucked into an inner dialogue, then it just disappears. It's amazing how it works.


Sandfly - this is brilliant. I really need to learn to put this in to practice in future. I wish I'd put it in to practice yesterday! Never mind though .

I look forward to being a fully confident WWB, and I look forward to having stronger willpower and resolve. I feel like I'm getting there most of the time, but it's still a long road ahead. 

Essentially I'm completely re-aligning my belief system about life, love, relationships, and most of all - myself. I get frustrated at myself sometimes, but when I step back and think, what I'm going through and working towards is huge. Rome wasn't built in a day.


----------



## Sandfly

Honorbound said:


> ... sometimes that cloud IS OUT TO GET YOU!!! MWAAAHAHAHA!!
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help it.
> 
> Very good points, Sandfly. It is occasionally hard to put into practice 'during the moment', but an excellent technique to put into practice. Hopefully it will become second nature.


Well, there is that, ha ha!

You know, the weather often matches how I feel, and I secretly wonder sometimes if my moods control the weather. But of course, a simpler explanation is that the weather influences me 

Also, who hasn't been out in the countryside during an epic thunderstorm and thought "Today's my day to die! I'm gonna get hit with a bolt of lightening! God/thor/perun is angry and he's gonna kill me!!" Nobody else? Oh. A-hem.

Well, this happens. And I could follow that silly stream of thought, make the mistake of engaging in the inner dialogue instead of just observing the panic feeling. Instead I just let it be felt, acknowledge it, and it goes away by itself. I even say to myself: "you're not even afraid of dying, sandfly. If you got struck by lightening, you'd think it was an interesting experience. So what is this really about?"

Yeah so, Honorbound and WWB, no-one and nothing is really out to get you... except the NSA/NWO . Tin hats at the ready!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Well, there is that, ha ha!
> 
> You know, the weather often matches how I feel, and I secretly wonder sometimes if my moods control the weather. But of course, a simpler explanation is that the weather influences me
> 
> Also, who hasn't been out in the countryside during an epic thunderstorm and thought "Today's my day to die! I'm gonna get hit with a bolt of lightening! God/thor/perun is angry and he's gonna kill me!!" Nobody else? Oh. A-hem.
> 
> Well, this happens. And I could follow that silly stream of thought, make the mistake of engaging in the inner dialogue instead of just observing the panic feeling. Instead I just let it be felt, acknowledge it, and it goes away by itself. I even say to myself: "you're not even afraid of dying, sandfly. If you got struck by lightening, you'd think it was an interesting experience. So what is this really about?"
> 
> Yeah so, Honorbound and WWB, no-one and nothing is really out to get you... except the NSA/NWO . Tin hats at the ready!


I get the thunderstorm thing too - especially if I'm in Yorkshire, scary storms out on those hills!

As I went out at lunch to buy some ingredients for dinner later, I found myself thinking of STBXW - I employed the tactic you suggested and it worked. I quieted my mind and just let the thoughts and feelings drift away.

STBXW has sure seemed out to get me sometimes too - but now I realise that was only because I allowed it.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Rome wasn't built in a day.


That's right WWB. Give it time. You will get there.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> That's right WWB. Give it time. You will get there.


Thanks KS, I know I will!

I feel so much better today than I did yesterday, today I feel strong again and like the improved WWB. 

I want to make sure this guy is here to stay. WWB 2.0.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, please do. I don't like that version of me.
> 
> I caved, sent STBXW a short message just saying that I hope she's feeling better now. Immediately regretted it. For the first time I'm actually hoping that she _doesn't_ reply. No mention of me, or of our marriage or R, but I still majorly regret it.


In honor or Anchorman 2 being released today, I thought of this. lol.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> In honor or Anchorman 2 being released today, I thought of this. lol.


Haha, I love Anchorman.

Stay classy BM85


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Haha, I love Anchorman.
> 
> Stay classy BM85


Haha, you too man. Don't jump into any more bear pits.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Again I've been reminded that she isn't who I thought she was, that everything we ever shared was an act, a lie.


Keep trying to remember this WWB. I have to keep telling myself this every single day. Sooner or later we won't have to remind ourselves anymore.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Haha, you too man. Don't jump into any more bear pits.


I don't intend to - I'm keeping my feet firmly rooted on the path of self-improvement and self-discovery. I have no time for bear pits.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Keep trying to remember this WWB. I have to keep telling myself this every single day. Sooner or later we won't have to remind ourselves anymore.


Yeah I will, I forgot this yesterday, but I had a pretty stark reminder.


----------



## GotLifeBack

This morning whilst travelling to work I found myself thinking about STBXW, again. About how I miss her blah blah blah. In my half-asleep state it took a few minutes before I remembered Sandfly's advice from yesterday and put it in to action again. It truly is a huge help.

When I got to the office I fired up my PC and started re-reading random pages from my thread. This also helped, but it also made me feel sad today - sad that I don't even know the person my wife has become (or, always was?). Sad that things have come to this. I started being self-critical and blaming myself too much for the downfall of the marriage again, but I cast this aside.

I reminded myself that it's not all my fault, I mean sure I wasn't always a perfect husband (who is?) but at least half of the "blame" (I don't like that word, I prefer responsibility) lay with her. I'm not going to reel of a list of these things, I know what they are, and listing them would make me feel as though I was blame-shifting or attacking her. I have no need to do either of those things.

I wrote in my journal last night, I've been trying to keep writing in it more often. I always find it helps. I wrote about how it's clear that she is done with the relationship, and she no longer cares for me in any capacity. She's cold and disconnected - it's almost as if she's implementing a 180 of her own, but when I think of it like that I immediately dismiss it. Thoughts like that ("It's all an act") give me a small amount of hope that the STBXW I know is still in there somewhere. But, she isn't, she has shown me this countless times now.

Whilst I know that my marriage is over, I still feel like I'm somewhat stuck in limbo - I really need this divorce to be finalised I think, I'm actually beginning to look forward to it. That also saddens me.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, a question for you guys - I think I know the answer already but:

I've arranged for my father to drop off the stairgate mentioned earlier in the thread, this coming Thursday after work, as he works in the town where MIL and FIL live.

Should I let STBXW know that he will be returning it tomorrow, or should I just let it go and hope that they are at home?

As I said, I think I know the answer, which is to just let it go.


----------



## Honorbound

Let it go. You already told her he was going to drop it off this week.

Unless you _want_ a repeat of a couple of days ago. 

At least she isn't trying to string you along and cake-eat. She was perfectly clear that she just doesn't feel anything towards you. Sorry, brother, I know that is a hard pill to swallow - but it is what it is.

NC really is the best thing for your own peace of mind. IMO.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Let it go. You already told her he was going to drop it off this week.
> 
> Unless you _want_ a repeat of a couple of days ago.
> 
> At least she isn't trying to string you along and cake-eat. She was perfectly clear that she just doesn't feel anything towards you. Sorry, brother, I know that is a hard pill to swallow - but it is what it is.
> 
> NC really is the best thing for your own peace of mind. IMO.


Yeah buddy, I know  Was just a consideration for MIL and FIL's sake, but if they aren't home, then that's not my problem anymore.

I don't want a repeat of a couple days ago - whilst it was a good reminder of who she is and that she feels nothing for me, it was kind of sad too.

NC is definitely the best thing - It's surprising how little I feel for her now too, except in the odd moments, such as Monday (Urgh )


----------



## Brokenman85

I know it's hard man.  Some days I still struggle to get up out of bed. You are doing great with your progress though. Keep it up. You deserve better man. She was able to give up very easily. You have been here for months almost everyday trying to get through this. It just shows how her capacity to love is not on the same level as yours. You married a very emotionally immature and selfish woman. I did as well. It sucks, but we can learn from this. Hard as hell...but we'll get through it...I think.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> I know it's hard man.  Some days I still struggle to get up out of bed. You are doing great with your progress though. Keep it up. You deserve better man. She was able to give up very easily. You have been here for months almost everyday trying to get through this. It just shows how her capacity to love is not on the same level as yours. You married a very emotionally immature and selfish woman. I did as well. It sucks, but we can learn from this. Hard as hell...but we'll get through it...I think.


Yeah man, some days suck. I still have those days too, but I force myself to get out of bed, smile and go about my day as usual. Fake it 'til you make it, right?

I do deserve better, and so do you. She gave up way too easily in my opinion - which just adds more weight to the theory that she's in some kind of affair fog. She's a very damaged person, and honestly I think you're right about her capacity to love - I'd bet the farm that's just one of the issues from her childhood traumas. We can learn, and we are learning, I'm starting to know myself, to understand myself, and I'm becoming more comfortable just being myself.

We'll get through this buddy, we're both made of tough stuff.


----------



## RandomDude

Getting infactuated by someone else is working wonders for me lol

Hows the playing field at your end mate?


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Getting infactuated by someone else is working wonders for me lol
> 
> Hows the playing field at your end mate?


Plenty of options, plenty of attention. Still in the warm up though, the real game hasn't begun yet .


----------



## RandomDude

Haha fair enough bro 

Soon enough this will be you:
The Black Eyed Peas - The Time (Dirty Bit) - YouTube


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Haha fair enough bro
> 
> Soon enough this will be you:
> The Black Eyed Peas - The Time (Dirty Bit) - YouTube


I can only hope .

I feel ready to be honest - my bank balance however, isn't ready for dating, or any more nights out on the town just yet


----------



## RandomDude

I have a similar problem, except that I'm busy till CNY as it's peak season so no time! Not to mention she works as well and my busiest times are in the weekends - so only flirting/texting and such for now.

Bah! It sucks


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> I have a similar problem, except that I'm busy till CNY as it's peak season so no time! Not to mention she works as well and my busiest times are in the weekends - so only flirting/texting and such for now.
> 
> Bah! It sucks


Gives you something to look forward to though buddy - I have nothing "concrete" lined up as yet... a few potentials though, all hotties, none relationship material though, which is good for me right now.


----------



## RandomDude

Yeah well... I just hope she's patient! lol

Like why now >.< Why not next year when I'll be more free! Oh thats right - cause I'll be whining left right and center about loneliness and celibacy all the way to next year lol - next time, I'll be careful what I wish for!

So I guess, in a way, you're actually fortunate you can take your time! Haha, whenever you're ready mate, unless you find someone you click with - then well, fk it! Grab that opportunity like its the last ass you'll ever get to squeeze!

Fk that sounds crude  But you get what I mean!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Yeah well... I just hope she's patient! lol
> 
> Like why now >.< Why not next year when I'll be more free! Oh thats right - cause I'll be whining left right and center about loneliness and celibacy all the way to next year lol - next time, I'll be careful what I wish for!
> 
> So I guess, in a way, you're actually fortunate you can take your time! Haha, whenever you're ready mate, unless you find someone you click with - then well, fk it! Grab that opportunity like its the last ass you'll ever get to squeeze!
> 
> Fk that sounds crude  But you get what I mean!


I'm sure she'll be patient for you if she's that in to you . Just play it cool dude, try not to stress about what might never happen! She'll still be there next year 

I guess so yeah, I want to break my celibacy - but I'm in no hurry to do so. My mates are trying to get me out clubbing again this weekend, but I'm not sure if my bank balance can stretch to it two weekends in a row - besides I went last weekend, might not be as fun if I go again this weekend!

Haha, yeah I get what you mean


----------



## RandomDude

Yeah too often it'll lose its charm  Just have fun and they'll come to you, and you'll be picking them! Fun fun!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Yeah too often it'll lose its charm  Just have fun and they'll come to you, and you'll be picking them! Fun fun!


Exactly - and I've made that exact observation whilst out clubbing - if you go out to intentionally hit on women, they don't want to know. If you pretend they aren't there and just have a good time, they'll be drawn to you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Good morning fellow TAMers,

I hope you're all well today?

I'm feeling particularly chipper this morning, albeit tired. I'm not sure why. It may have something to do with the self-help book I started reading last night. It's called "Instant Confidence" by Paul McKenna. It's good in that it doesn't teach you rubbish techniques to _appear_ more confident, the book is primarily concerned with helping you to discover and be comfortable with your authentic self. I practiced a few exercises last night, and I must say I did feel better about myself afterwards.

Also had a pretty epic workout again yesterday - which always helps lift my mood and make me feel quite frankly, like a god.

When I get home from work, I may share some of the exercises here for those that would benefit from them. I know not everyone has confidence problems, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that does.

I didn't think of STBXW much at all last night, nor have I this morning really, aside from a few fleeting thoughts about my father visiting MIL and SFIL later (I thought that maybe STBXW will be there? I'm not sure where she is living now as when she fell ill with mono (read: contracted mono), she had to leave the place she was living so she didn't infect the household). I always got on really with MIL and SFIL (Step-Father-in-Law). On my wedding day SFIL told me that I was like a second son to him. It was a touching moment.

Anyways, feeling good today, lets hope it continues!


----------



## RandomDude

Ey? I just have to look at myself in the mirror (especially after a workout) and boom, I'm ready to score 



lol


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Ey? I just have to look at myself in the mirror (especially after a workout) and boom, I'm ready to score
> 
> 
> 
> lol


Heh, I do catch myself checking myself out more often these days, especially after a work out like you say.

My lack of confidence comes from:

1. Setting unattainable standards for myself - nothing is ever good enough for me.

2. Childhood conditioning - nothing I did was ever good enough for my parents, which ties in with 1.

3. Comparing myself to others.

4. Being constantly put down by my father & uncle during childhood or adolescence. (I actually saw my uncle at the gym yesterday, he walked up to me and said "You might as well give up mate, it's not working".) He's such a prick. Funny that he can comment on my physique when he's a lazy 19 stone sack of sh*t. I just ignored him and carried on. Unfortunately it's how my grandfather raised them, and probably his father before him and so on. I know my work outs are working, I'm getting bigger, more vascular, leaner and I'm adding around 10lbs to my lifts each week . The amount of definition I see in my body now to when I started 6 weeks ago is vastly different . I can't wait to see how I look in another 6 weeks time!

My father and uncle are like that with everyone though, not just family. They are both lazy, fat, slobs. My uncle married a woman who looks more like a man than he does (with the facial hair to boot) and my father has been single for 13 years. They both lead miserable lives with no direction or achievement, and neither of them have any friends because they have such a negative energy. They need to make others feel small to make themselves feel big. It's sad really. But when you're subjected to taunts about your appearance and personality on a daily basis as a child/teen, it becomes ingrained in your mind as the truth.

It's BS though - Oh, I'm ugly am I dad? That's funny how people tell me I look a lot like you, and yet when I go out I ALWAYS get female interest. Funny how I even though she was broken, I managed to attract, keep and marry a hotty for 6 years too, right?

Every time I try to do something to improve my life or better myself, my father puts a downer on it because he lacks the motivation to do anything for himself and feels that others shouldn't be able to.

For example, my driving lessons and saving for a car. Instead of saying "Good for you, good luck" he said "You're going to struggle financially when you get a car, they always go wrong". He talks to me about finances? The fact that I'm 26, and he's 52 and I earn more per year than he does speaks volumes.

I changed my diet a few years ago and instead of "Good for you", he said "Healthy food is so expensive, and it's not as nice, and it's hard work". That's fine mate, you just keep stuffing those pies & peanuts down, looking like you're f*cking 8 and a half months pregnant. I'll stand her with my (almost) flat stomach and remember how much better off I am now.

When I joined the gym after STBXW left, again, no "good for you WWB!", instead - "You're going to hurt yourself, you don't know what you're doing, you can't lift you sit in an office all day, you're weak". Oh really? Weak? So I can't leg press 1.5x my own body weight PLUS my own body weight? Weird, because I just did that. 

Also, he always questions me "What made you decide to join the gym then? Why are you bothering?" etc etc etc.

Wankers, the pair of 'em.

Anyhow, got a bit sidetracked there, it's all good though.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Heh, I do catch myself checking myself out more often these days, especially after a work out like you say.
> 
> My lack of confidence comes from:
> 
> 1. Setting unattainable standards for myself - nothing is ever good enough for me.
> 
> 2. Childhood conditioning - nothing I did was ever good enough for my parents, which ties in with 1.
> 
> 3. Comparing myself to others.
> 
> 4. Being constantly put down by my father & uncle during childhood or adolescence. (I actually saw my uncle at the gym yesterday, he walked up to me and said "You might as well give up mate, it's not working".) He's such a prick. Funny that he can comment on my physique when he's a lazy 19 stone sack of sh*t. I just ignored him and carried on. Unfortunately it's how my grandfather raised them, and probably his father before him and so on. I know my work outs are working, I'm getting bigger, more vascular, leaner and I'm adding around 10lbs to my lifts each week . The amount of definition I see in my body now to when I started 6 weeks ago is vastly different . I can't wait to see how I look in another 6 weeks time!
> 
> My father and uncle are like that with everyone though, not just family. They are both lazy, fat, slobs. My uncle married a woman who looks more like a man than he does (with the facial hair to boot) and my father has been single for 13 years. They both lead miserable lives with no direction or achievement, and neither of them have any friends because they have such a negative energy. They need to make others feel small to make themselves feel big. It's sad really. But when you're subjected to taunts about your appearance and personality on a daily basis as a child/teen, it becomes ingrained in your mind as the truth.
> 
> It's BS though - Oh, I'm ugly am I dad? That's funny how people tell me I look a lot like you, and yet when I go out I ALWAYS get female interest. Funny how I even though she was broken, I managed to attract, keep and marry a hotty for 6 years too, right?
> 
> Every time I try to do something to improve my life or better myself, my father puts a downer on it because he lacks the motivation to do anything for himself and feels that others shouldn't be able to.
> 
> For example, my driving lessons and saving for a car. Instead of saying "Good for you, good luck" he said "You're going to struggle financially when you get a car, they always go wrong". He talks to me about finances? The fact that I'm 26, and he's 52 and I earn more per year than he does speaks volumes.
> 
> I changed my diet a few years ago and instead of "Good for you", he said "Healthy food is so expensive, and it's not as nice, and it's hard work". That's fine mate, you just keep stuffing those pies & peanuts down, looking like you're f*cking 8 and a half months pregnant. I'll stand her with my (almost) flat stomach and remember how much better off I am now.
> 
> When I joined the gym after STBXW left, again, no "good for you WWB!", instead - "You're going to hurt yourself, you don't know what you're doing, you can't lift you sit in an office all day, you're weak". Oh really? Weak? So I can't leg press 1.5x my own body weight PLUS my own body weight? Weird, because I just did that.
> 
> Also, he always questions me "What made you decide to join the gym then? Why are you bothering?" etc etc etc.
> 
> Wankers, the pair of 'em.
> 
> Anyhow, got a bit sidetracked there, it's all good though.


You know it's not just STBX's you can go dark on, don't you?

Mine was exactly the same - and physically abusive to boot. I always just tried to ignore him, until about 13 years ago - when he took a swing at me one night at a bar.

Something snapped. I dodged the swing and the next thing I know 4 people were doing all they could to pull me off of him. He was on the ground bleeding and unconscious.

Part of me was appalled at what I had done.

Part of me, a large part, felt at peace for the first time I could remember.

I tried to be ashamed of the latter, but just couldn't. He had purchased that a$$ kicking one hit, one kick, one derogatory comment at a time for 30 years. The bill had just come due.

I didn't talk to him again until shortly before he died. Although he did admit to my brothers (I was their hero for that) that he deserved what happened, I no longer felt any need to be around him. I was much better off cutting his toxicity out of my life. Even two weeks before he died he was trying to re-write history about what a 'Good Father' he was. He denied all of the beatings and unfounded criticisms. I got up and walked out of his hospital room without saying a word and only talked to him again the day before he died.

That day he admitted to being an a$$ his whole life and was scared of dying. He begged me to forgive him. I gripped his hand and did.

I don't think he ever would have done that if I hadn't finally stood up to him.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> You know it's not just STBX's you can go dark on, don't you?
> 
> Mine was exactly the same - and physically abusive to boot. I always just tried to ignore him, until about 13 years ago - when he took a swing at me one night at a bar.
> 
> Something snapped. I dodged the swing and the next thing I know 4 people were doing all they could to pull me off of him. He was on the ground bleeding and unconscious.
> 
> Part of me was appalled at what I had done.
> 
> Part of me, a large part, felt at peace for the first time I could remember.
> 
> I tried to be ashamed of the latter, but just couldn't. He had purchased that a$$ kicking one hit, one kick, one derogatory comment at a time for 30 years. The bill had just come due.
> 
> I didn't talk to him again until shortly before he died. Although he did admit to my brothers (I was their hero for that) that he deserved what happened, I no longer felt any need to be around him. I was much better off cutting his toxicity out of my life. Even two weeks before he died he was trying to re-write history about what a 'Good Father' he was. He denied all of the beatings and unfounded criticisms. I got up and walked out of his hospital room without saying a word and only talked to him again the day before he died.
> 
> That day he admitted to being an a$$ his whole life and was scared of dying. He begged me to forgive him. I gripped his hand and did.
> 
> I don't think he ever would have done that if I hadn't finally stood up to him.


Unfortunately I live with him at the moment so it would be difficult to go dark on him, my interactions are mostly limited to a "Hi" or a "Bye". I have nothing to talk about with that man. It's just the way he is sadly, he's like it with his colleagues too. Always trying to tell me stories about how he makes fun of them etc.

Mine was only ever physically abusive once, I can't remember how old I was but I was young. I never witnessed it either but my mother accuses him of being physically abusive to her throughout their relationship.

He wouldn't dare raise a hand to me now, he's too much of a coward.

I hope you're not suggesting that I pummel my father in to a messy pulp?  haha. In all honesty though, if he did take a swing for me nowadays, that's exactly what would happen.

He is toxic though, I try to distance myself from him as much as possible. He has been slightly "better" in recent years, but he's still the same guy. My younger sister wants as little to do with him as possible, and doesn't even call him "dad" any more.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> Unfortunately I live with him at the moment so it would be difficult to go dark on him, my interactions are mostly limited to a "Hi" or a "Bye". I have nothing to talk about with that man. It's just the way he is sadly, he's like it with his colleagues too. Always trying to tell me stories about how he makes fun of them etc.
> 
> Mine was only ever physically abusive once, I can't remember how old I was but I was young. I never witnessed it either but my mother accuses him of being physically abusive to her throughout their relationship.
> 
> He wouldn't dare raise a hand to me now, he's too much of a coward.
> 
> I hope you're not suggesting that I pummel my father in to a messy pulp?  haha. In all honesty though, if he did take a swing for me nowadays, that's exactly what would happen.
> 
> He is toxic though, I try to distance myself for it as much as possible. He has been slightly "better" in recent years, but he's still the same guy. My younger sister wants as little to do with him as possible, and doesn't even call him "dad" any more.


No, I am not suggesting you pummel him. 

Mine earned every bit of it - everyone in my family admitted as much. According to them, he was a much nicer person to be around afterwards, too.... but I wouldn't know since I avoided him. I have a much younger sister. He was very good to her afterwards... so the only memories she has of him are fond ones. I can't help but wonder, though, if she still would if I hadn't done what I did.

Just ignore his put-downs - your Uncle's too. They mean less than crap.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> No, I am not suggesting you pummel him.
> 
> Mine earned every bit of it - everyone in my family admitted as much. According to them, he was a much nicer person to be around afterwards, too.... but I wouldn't know since I avoided him. I have a much younger sister. He was very good to her afterwards... so the only memories she has of him are fond ones. I can't help but wonder, though, if she still would if I hadn't done what I did.
> 
> Just ignore his put-downs - your Uncle's too. They mean less than crap.


I do ignore them now, it's more the way they affected me when I was younger, I think it's a huge contributing factor to my lack of confidence, and maybe self-respect too. 

When my uncle approached me in the gym yesterday, I literally didn't say a word to him. He knows what I'm going through, the decent thing to do would have been to ask how I was, not try to put me down when I'm doing something positive. I have no room for people like that in my life anymore.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> I do ignore them now, it's more the way they affected me when I was younger, I think it's a huge contributing factor to my lack of confidence, and maybe self-respect too.


I agree. Being scarred like that as a child sticks with you your whole life... even though you _know_ it is BS. It'll be a constant struggle to remind yourself that it isn't true. My brother and I go through the same thing to this day due to all of the abuse and belittlement.



WantWifeBack said:


> When my uncle approached me in the gym yesterday, I literally didn't say a word to him. He knows what I'm going through, the decent thing to do would have been to ask how I was, not try to put me down when I'm doing something positive. I have no room for people like that in my life anymore.


Yes. He sounds like an A$$. Ignore him.

... or ask him to workout with you


----------



## RandomDude

I stood up to my old man when I was a kid, 9 or 10, can't remember now, so many years ago. He tried to whack me with a metal pole, I grabbed it, knocked it out of his hand and whacked him back. Then got kicked out and stayed with mum lol

Been fighting since I was 5 really, expelled at second grade for throwing an Aussie down a flight of stairs for calling me some racist crap. Family always said I had my mum's temper, but unlike her - as I'm male - ended up loving physical confrontations.

Quite frankly I despise the laws in terms of assault, you can't even defend yourself nowadays or risk a court case. The whole philosophy of 'turn the other cheek' does not comprehend in my mind, never has. So nowadays I just grapple and humiliate them instead and make them cry in holds without beating them to a pulp.

In the end, I believe everyone should have the right to stand up for themselves.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I agree. Being scarred like that as a child sticks with you your whole life... even though you _know_ it is BS. It'll be a constant struggle to remind yourself that it isn't true. My brother and I go through the same thing to this day due to all of the abuse and belittlement.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. He sounds like an A$$. Ignore him.
> 
> ... or ask him to workout with you


Yeah absolutely, however I'm working on healing those scars as much as I possibly can. The struggle will get easier. The people who behave that way are the inferior ones, not me, nor you.

He is an a$$hat. I would ask him to workout with me, but I wouldn't want to embarrass someone with an already fragile ego .



> I stood up to my old man when I was a kid, 9 or 10, can't remember now, so many years ago. He tried to whack me with a metal pole, I grabbed it, knocked it out of his hand and whacked him back. Then got kicked out and stayed with mum lol


I never stood up to my father, if I'm honest when I was a kid I looked up to him - because that was all I knew. That's the way I thought things were meant to be.



> Been fighting since I was 5 really, expelled at second grade for throwing an Aussie down a flight of stairs for calling me some racist crap. Family always said I had my mum's temper, but unlike her - as I'm male - ended up loving physical confrontations.


This was me in school - I got expelled for hitting someone with a cricket bat who made fun of my family. Then again at my next school for breaking the school bully's nose. After that I calmed down but did end up getting in a few scrapes now and then. Once I was out drunk and a guy tried to hit me with a fence post, I blocked it and knocked it out of his hand, KO'd him and walked away. I don't regret KO'ing him, because he would have just come after me if he was still conscious.


----------



## RandomDude

> I never stood up to my father, if I'm honest when I was a kid I looked up to him - because that was all I knew. That's the way I thought things were meant to be.


I never looked up to my father until much later, I was poisoned all my life against him by my mum, who later betrayed me lol - also the reason why I wish to maintain civil co-parenting terms with my STBX, I don't know if I can control my own anger if she decides to poison our daughter - and I think she knows better than to do such a thing (touchwood). You're lucky you don't have kids with your STBX mate.



> This was me in school - I got expelled for hitting someone with a cricket bat who made fun of my family. Then again at my next school for breaking the school bully's nose. After that I calmed down but did end up getting in a few scrapes now and then. Once I was out drunk and a guy tried to hit me with a fence post, I blocked it and knocked it out of his hand, KO'd him and walked away. I don't regret KO'ing him, because he would have just come after me if he was still conscious.


Aye, and then you hit 18, and its no longer expulsions it's fines and jailtime! Bah!


----------



## just got it 55

RandomDude said:


> I stood up to my old man when I was a kid, 9 or 10, can't remember now, so many years ago. He tried to whack me with a metal pole, I grabbed it, knocked it out of his hand and whacked him back. Then got kicked out and stayed with mum lol
> 
> Been fighting since I was 5 really, expelled at second grade for throwing an Aussie down a flight of stairs for calling me some racist crap. Family always said I had my mum's temper, but unlike her - as I'm male - ended up loving physical confrontations.
> 
> Quite frankly I despise the laws in terms of assault, you can't even defend yourself nowadays or risk a court case. The whole philosophy of 'turn the other cheek' does not comprehend in my mind, never has. So nowadays I just grapple and humiliate them instead and make them cry in holds without beating them to a pulp.
> 
> In the end, I believe everyone should have the right to stand up for themselves.


I have a childhood buddy that had a contentious relationship with his father. His father sent him out to get a stick to "learn him" with
He came back with a big thick branch of thorns

His father said 'You really want me to use this?'

My buddy said 'If your man enough to use it I'm man enough to take it"

The Old man really respects him now


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> I never looked up to my father until much later, I was poisoned all my life against him by my mum, who later betrayed me lol - also the reason why I wish to maintain civil co-parenting terms with my STBX, I don't know if I can control my own anger if she decides to poison our daughter - and I think she knows better than to do such a thing (touchwood). You're lucky you don't have kids with your STBX mate.
> 
> 
> 
> Aye, and then you hit 18, and its no longer expulsions it's fines and jailtime! Bah!


My mother lived in fear of my father I think. Although I never witnessed it myself, to this day she swears he was violent towards her. I'm starting to think there could be some truth to that.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> My mother lived in fear of my father I think. Although I never witnessed it myself, to this day she swears he was violent towards her. I'm starting to think there could be some truth to that.


Gee, I wonder where you learned to walk on eggshells?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Gee, I wonder where you learned to walk on eggshells?


It's a mystery Conrad 

I'm un-learning though.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Wankers, the pair of 'em.


Quote of the day.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Quote of the day.


Indeed helo.

No more spineless and timid AFC WWB.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed helo.
> 
> No more spineless and timid AFC WWB.


I suggest you practice it with everyone in your life.

You don't like something? Voice it in a productive manner.

Caution though... It might become addictive and you'll become a happier person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> I suggest you practice it with everyone in your life.
> 
> You don't like something? Voice it in a productive manner.
> 
> Caution though... It might become addictive and you'll become a happier person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the plan RG 

My order of priorities in life is:

1. Me.
2. Everyone else.






3. STBXW


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> That's the plan RG
> 
> My order of priorities in life is:
> 
> 1. Me.
> 2. Everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. STBXW


That's far too high (for her)


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> That's far too high (for her)


Maybe I'll swap the 3 out for 999,999,999,999?

Or, here's a crazy idea, remove her from the list entirely.


----------



## Brokenman85

WantWifeBack said:


> Maybe I'll swap the 3 out for 999,999,999,999?
> 
> Or, here's a crazy idea, remove her from the list entirely.


Entirely


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Entirely


Agreed .

If at any point ever she wants to get back on the list, she's going to have to work her a$$ off for bottom spot.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, the stairgate has been returned.

SFIL asked after me and sent his best regards, and that he doesn't know what's going on and he's keeping out of it all.

My father told him that I'm "doing okay" (sh*tty choice of words, but what should I expect?) and that everything that's happened between me and STBXW is "for me and her to sort out". I told my father that there's nothing more to sort out, and he knows that so I don't know why he said it.

Nevermind, he could have gone there and told SFIL that I was a crying emotional wreck and I hadn't showered since she left - it still would make no difference to me.

STBXW was there also - I'm not sure if she's living back home with her parents now or not to be honest but I'd assume so. I don't know why my father needed to tell me that. It makes little difference to me whether she lives with her parents or on a different continent.


----------



## philglossop

She's probably on a different continent mate.

Considering you're at 50,000ft most of the time she could be in Europe for all you know!


----------



## GotLifeBack

philglossop said:


> She's probably on a different continent mate.
> 
> Considering you're at 50,000ft most of the time she could be in Europe for all you know!


Haha very true. She looks small and insignificant from up here .


----------



## RandomDude

just got it 55 said:


> I have a childhood buddy that had a contentious relationship with his father. His father sent him out to get a stick to "learn him" with
> He came back with a big thick branch of thorns
> 
> His father said 'You really want me to use this?'
> 
> My buddy said 'If your man enough to use it I'm man enough to take it"
> 
> The Old man really respects him now


Whao now that kid has some serious balls lol


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Whao now that kid has some serious balls lol


At least he did until his father embedded a dozen thorns in to them


----------



## just got it 55

WantWifeBack said:


> At least he did until his father embedded a dozen thorns in to them


Believe me he would take it every effen day


----------



## GotLifeBack

Feeling epic again today .

Tired, but epic.

Looking forward to an awesome workout later - Friday is leg day, always brutal, but always worth it!

Haven't thought too much of STBXW yet, which is good, I've mostly been focusing on myself today so far, trying to push myself to be more confident, and happier.

Life is good, life is exciting. I feel motivated to make something of myself, to improve myself in every aspect.

The sad news is, today I got paid early, and it's also the start of the Steam Holiday Sale  My poor finances.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm considering contacting STBXW to ask when it is she plans on filing for divorce. I'd like some kind of certainty on when that's going to happen.

Would this be a bad idea?


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm considering contacting STBXW to ask when it is she plans on filing for divorce. I'd like some kind of certainty on when that's going to happen.
> 
> Would this be a bad idea?


Terrible


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah I know.

It's just frustrating, she wouldn't really discuss divorce with me other than saying she would pay for it - I have no idea of when she will file, if she still plans to pay for it or anything like that.

I tried to discuss it with her a few weeks ago - she just said "We've already talked about this WWB."

I didn't argue back, I just said "I know very little, but I'm not going to argue about it, goodbye".


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah I know.
> 
> It's just frustrating, she wouldn't really discuss divorce with me other than saying she would pay for it - I have no idea of when she will file, if she still plans to pay for it or anything like that.
> 
> I tried to discuss it with her a few weeks ago - she just said "We've already talked about this WWB."
> 
> I didn't argue back, I just said "I know very little, but I'm not going to argue about it, goodbye".


You realize this urge to fix is part of the codependent cycle.

Learn to be still.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You realize this urge to fix is part of the codependent cycle.
> 
> Learn to be still.


Yes, I do.

I just wish I had something concrete - I want this D to happen, the sooner the better. If I had it my way, and if I was willing to pay, I'd file on our first wedding anniversary.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm considering contacting STBXW to ask when it is she plans on filing for divorce. I'd like some kind of certainty on when that's going to happen.
> 
> Would this be a bad idea?


I did this, I had ignored all attempts of my W to contact me but when it came to D (she filed and we had to wait 90 days to do anything) I sent an email out of the blue saying "When are we going to get this embarrassment of a marriage over with?"

She did not like that. From then on I pushed her to finalize our D. In the end we ended up reconciling (was not my intention).


----------



## Conrad

ArmyofJuan said:


> I did this, I had ignored all attempts of my W to contact me but when it came to D (she filed and we had to wait 90 days to do anything) I sent an email out of the blue saying "When are we going to get this embarrassment of a marriage over with?"
> 
> She did not like that. From then on I pushed her to finalize our D. In the end we ended up reconciling (was not my intention).


Just like riding a motorcycle.

Counterintuitive


----------



## GotLifeBack

ArmyofJuan said:


> I did this, I had ignored all attempts of my W to contact me but when it came to D (she filed and we had to wait 90 days to do anything) I sent an email out of the blue saying "When are we going to get this embarrassment of a marriage over with?"
> 
> She did not like that. From then on I pushed her to finalize our D. In the end we ended up reconciling (was not my intention).


That's the sort of message I was considering sending, however probably best not to. I'm sure she'll let me know when she files. If not I'll contact her on what would be our first wedding anniversary and ask if she has filed.


----------



## Honorbound

WantWifeBack said:


> That's the sort of message I was considering sending, however probably best not to. I'm sure she'll let me know when she files. If not I'll contact her on what would be our first wedding anniversary and ask if she has filed.


Not a good idea....


----------



## LongWalk

Get throught the holidays


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Not a good idea....


Really? It would be a bad idea to say:

"Hey STBXW, Happy Anniversary! Have you started the divorce process yet? "

Yeah... looking at it like that, probably not a good idea.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Get throught the holidays


The holidays aren't bothering me today. I'm centered, and calm, and will remain so.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Really? It would be a bad idea to say:
> 
> "Hey STBXW, Happy Anniversary! Have you started the divorce process yet? "
> 
> Yeah... looking at it like that, probably not a good idea.


A leader starts the divorce process when he is ok with it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> A leader starts the divorce process when he is ok with it.


I'd start it myself today if:

A.) I was willing to spend another penny on STBXW's wishes. 

B.) We'd been married for the required year by UK Law.

C.) She hadn't taken our certificate of marriage, which you need in the UK to file for divorce.


----------



## Honorbound

I would just consider myself divorced as of now, then - if she has taken your ability to file yourself.

What else can you do? If it goes on much longer than that required year and you haven't heard anything, try to get your own attorney to lean on her (expensive, I know - but have him bill her for it, since she effectively abandoned you).


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> I would just consider myself divorced as of now, then - if she has taken your ability to file yourself.
> 
> What else can you do? If it goes on much longer than that required year and you haven't heard anything, try to get your own attorney to lean on her (expensive, I know - but have him bill her for it, since she effectively abandoned you).


Very true indeed. It's not like I can even get an attorney to write to her asking she relinquish the marriage certificate as I don't know where she's living (although, from what I learned yesterday I think she's staying with her parents until her mono clears up and she's no longer contagious). I'll give it until next August I think, that gives her 3 clear months to file. I have a feeling she'll try to get me to pay for some of it. 

Or to be honest, I wouldn't put it past her to falsely try for R, so I decline, and then she can say "Well, I don't want the divorce now so you can pay for it".

Weird, I would never have thought her capable of something like that before, and now I foresee the possibility of it happening.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> Very true indeed. It's not like I can even get an attorney to write to her asking she relinquish the marriage certificate as I don't know where she's living (although, from what I learned yesterday I think she's staying with her parents *until her mono clears up *and she's no longer contagious). I'll give it until next August I think, that gives her 3 clear months to file. I have a feeling she'll try to get me to pay for some of it.
> 
> Or to be honest, I wouldn't put it past her to falsely try for R, so I decline, and then she can say "*Well, I don't want the divorce now so you can pay for it*".
> 
> Weird, I would never have thought her capable of something like that before, and now I foresee the possibility of it happening.


Classy lass 

As long as you document and focus on her actions and not her words, every normal person will see through such a ploy.

Despite the sadness, it must be a liberating experience that you can see through the tricks for what they are. Just wait till you turn thirty, then you'll be surprised at your powers of seeing through the lies.... and people's laughable attempts at ego-attacks... I was!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Classy lass
> 
> As long as you document and focus on her actions and not her words, every normal person will see through such a ploy.
> 
> Despite the sadness, it must be a liberating experience that you can see through the tricks for what they are. Just wait till you turn thirty, then you'll be surprised at your powers of seeing through the lies.... I was!


Indeed Sandfly - she said she caught it through innocent means, but I find that hard to believe given recent events .

She may not do that, but it's just something I have considered to prepare for. I hope she doesn't and I hope it goes well and smoothly. I hope after 6 years together and going through all of this the least she can grant me is a peaceful divorce.

But, I wouldn't be surprised otherwise any more.


----------



## philglossop

Quick tip reference marriage cert.

You go to your local registry office with your name/ her name and the place you were married.

Then you get a legal copy- think my cost £25 as I wanted the same day service- bingo- there it'll be.

Your registry office will be fantastic, they're used to this sort of thing all the time.


----------



## philglossop

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed Sandfly - she said she caught it through innocent means, but I find that hard to believe given recent events .
> 
> She may not do that, but it's just something I have considered to prepare for. I hope she doesn't and I hope it goes well and smoothly. I hope after 6 years together and going through all of this the least she can grant me is a peaceful divorce.
> 
> But, I wouldn't be surprised otherwise any more.


I have a feeling on this you'd be surprised- she checked out remember, she could make it all rather pain free as in her eyes It was over long before you split.

Besides if in English/Welsh law it's a total breakdown, as I discovered, all they have to do is sign 2 pieces of paper, whilst you do the donkey work. Hurts man, boy it hurts but there is some closure on having pulled the final trigger. Plus they get the added bonus of being in the victim chair......


----------



## GotLifeBack

philglossop said:


> I have a feeling on this you'd be surprised- she checked out remember, she could make it all rather pain free as in her eyes It was over long before you split.
> 
> Besides if in English/Welsh law it's a total breakdown, as I discovered, all they have to do is sign 2 pieces of paper, whilst you do the donkey work. Hurts man, boy it hurts but there is some closure on having pulled the final trigger. Plus they get the added bonus of being in the victim chair......


She can have the victim chair. I'm no victim. Let her wallow in self-pity and invite all of her friends for a pity-party.

Maybe you're right, I'll see how my financial situation looks in May. I know she would be utterly shocked if I had her served.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Not sure why, but really missing STBXW today.

Feeling like I want to fight for my marriage.

I don't want to feel like this though. Guess I'll just ride it out and stay busy.


----------



## deejov

WantWifeBack said:


> Not sure why, but really missing STBXW today.
> 
> Feeling like I want to fight for my marriage.
> 
> I don't want to feel like this though. Guess I'll just ride it out and stay busy.


Been reading your thread for quite awhile. Proud of you.
Don't have much advice to offer except something I do that I never thought to share until now...

I put my wedding ring on my right hand.
It "reminds" me of something.

"The voice inside of me is who I am really married to. All marriage is a mirror of that marriage. My true lover is the place inside me where an honest yes or no comes from. That's my true partner. It's always there. And to tell YOU yes when my integrity says NO is to divorce that partner".

My ring is getting worn a bit, from me rubbing it lately, to remind myself that my relationship with MYSELF, being my true self, is the real thing I need to focus on.

The holidays are extra tough.


----------



## GotLifeBack

deejov said:


> Been reading your thread for quite awhile. Proud of you.
> Don't have much advice to offer except something I do that I never thought to share until now...
> 
> I put my wedding ring on my right hand.
> It "reminds" me of something.
> 
> "The voice inside of me is who I am really married to. All marriage is a mirror of that marriage. My true lover is the place inside me where an honest yes or no comes from. That's my true partner. It's always there. And to tell YOU yes when my integrity says NO is to divorce that partner".
> 
> My ring is getting worn a bit, from me rubbing it lately, to remind myself that my relationship with MYSELF, being my true self, is the real thing I need to focus on.
> 
> The holidays are extra tough.


Thanks .

The first time STBXW and I separated, we were engaged and had our wedding rings. I started wearing mine on my right hand, but for all the wrong reasons. I wore it to remind me what I'd lost and what I had to fight for, and I fought hard and got her back. It was tough, in many ways tougher than the situation now.

This time, my wedding ring sits in my toolbox among fixings and hex keys etc. I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it. I did leave it on the counter in front of the TV, but one say STBXW came in to the house and hid it (I found it in her jewellery box). This was about a week after she left and I panicked when it disappeared. Maybe some kind of head-game, I don't know. But I didn't tell her I noticed it was gone, nor where I found it.

Right now my relationship with my true self is what matters - you're right.

I guess today I'm feeling like "I married this woman, I love this woman more than I thought possible, I'm not going to give up on her" - But, from 50k, it looks like it was _her_ that gave up on _me_. Why should I make the effort?


----------



## GotLifeBack

And yes, the holidays are extra tough. I'm faced with 10 days off work, which usually I'd be overjoyed about, except I won't be spending any of those days with her.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> And yes, the holidays are extra tough. I'm faced with 10 days off work, which usually I'd be overjoyed about, except I won't be spending any of those days with her.


Think of all that ass you don't have to kiss.

Be grateful


----------



## hitbyabrick

WantWifeBack said:


> And yes, the holidays are extra tough. I'm faced with 10 days off work, which usually I'd be overjoyed about, except I won't be spending any of those days with her.


Maybe I can offer another way to look at this. Imagine if you did have to spend those 10 days with your STBXW. Not the wife you remember the good times with, but your STBXW as she is today.

I spent a week off with my ex in the same house, over our favorite holiday. A week filled with suffering, false hope, depression, & rejection. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Find some things to do that will make you happy. Spend time with friends & family. Do something new.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Think of all that ass you don't have to kiss.
> 
> Be grateful


And all of those presents I don't have to buy .

No visit to my a$$hat of a FIL (not SFIL - he's cool).

No arguing about which family members we'll visit and when (STBXW always wanted to visit her family at Christmas. She didn't like my family.)

Those are the pros.

I'm not going to list the cons.



> Maybe I can offer another way to look at this. Imagine if you did have to spend those 10 days with your STBXW. Not the wife you remember the good times with, but your STBXW as she is today.
> 
> I spent a week off with my ex in the same house, over our favorite holiday. A week filled with suffering, false hope, depression, & rejection. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
> 
> Find some things to do that will make you happy. Spend time with friends & family. Do something new.


This is good HBAB - I wouldn't want to spend those 10 days in that situation or atmosphere.

I'll do my best to keep busy and socialise a lot. It also wouldn't hurt to get out and meet some women .


----------



## Sandfly

Good to see you're doing well.

You know the challenge that's coming up for both of us: the Christmas greeting. 

I have an idea for both of us. I'm going to turn my mobile off on Christmas eve and turn back on boxing day.

People who care can still reach us on the home phone... but it cuts out the temptation to 'reply' until Christmas is passed. Then when it's boxing day, it's too late anyway.

Good idea? Because I will be tempted... and she's only going to send one to massage her 'I'm a nice person' ego...


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Good to see you're doing well.
> 
> You know the challenge that's coming up for both of us: the Christmas greeting.
> 
> I have an idea for both of us. I'm going to turn my mobile off on Christmas eve and turn back on boxing day.
> 
> People who care can still reach us on the home phone... but it cuts out the temptation to 'reply' until Christmas is passed. Then when it's boxing day, it's too late anyway.
> 
> Good idea? Because I will be tempted... and she's only going to send one to massage her 'I'm a nice person' ego...


I'm doing ok I think. 

The Christmas greeting - I'm not sure I'll get one. I hope I don't to be honest. I'm away for Christmas so my mobile will be my only source of contacting the outside world - therefore I'll leave it on. 

In a moment of weakness and a completely stupid emotion-based decision, I sent STBXW a quick message yesterday - just a "Hey how are you?". She didn't reply yesterday but replied this morning. I'm not sure how to react, so I'll do nothing. I'm 90% certain I should just ignore it.


----------



## LongWalk

What did she say?

If you sent a message and she replied, why would you ignore her reply. That's just rude. 

You should have stuck to the 180, but all you can do is respond appropriately and go back to disengaging.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> What did she say?
> 
> If you sent a message and she replied, why would you ignore her reply. That's just rude.
> 
> You should have stuck to the 180, but all you can do is respond appropriately and go back to disengaging.


Just "I'm ok thanks, how about you?"

My gut is telling me to ignore it and not respond. I think we're beyond being concerned about being rude - walking out on me a measly 4 months in to our marriage, is pretty rude .

I should have stuck to the 180, you're right, for some reason I keep making these same mistakes, and it's always weekends - probably because they were when we spend the most time together.


----------



## helolover

tell her you were texting someone else and got her by mistake.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> tell her you were texting someone else and got her by mistake.


Not a bad idea... I'll think on it, or I could just ignore her entirely.

Bah I don't know. Should never have sent her a message in the first place.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Still ignoring her message, and will do so indefinitely.

The fact that I sent it yesterday afternoon, and she's only just replied cements the fact that she was waiting for someone to get out of the way before replying - be it her friends, or OM.

Either way, I'm not ok with that.


----------



## LongWalk

WantWifeBack said:


> Just "I'm ok thanks, how about you?"
> 
> My gut is telling me to ignore it and not respond. I think we're beyond being concerned about being rude - walking out on me a measly 4 months in to our marriage, is pretty rude .
> 
> I should have stuck to the 180, you're right, for some reason I keep making these same mistakes, and it's always weekends - probably because they were when we spend the most time together.


Reply: "Fine, thanks. Merry Christmas! Let me know when you've filed the divorce papers."


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Reply: "Fine, thanks. Merry Christmas! Let me know when you've filed the divorce papers."


Nope 

No reply at all.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> In a moment of weakness and a completely stupid emotion-based decision, I sent STBXW a quick message yesterday - just a "Hey how are you?". She didn't reply yesterday but replied this morning. I'm not sure how to react, so I'll do nothing. I'm 90% certain I should just ignore it.


You keep sneaking off to chat with the cute girl.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> You keep sneaking off to chat with the cute girl.


I know, I really shouldn't. The weekends are tough though, especially Sundays - I think because on Saturday I feel like:

"Awesome, it's the weekend, time to get some things done and chill out!"

Then Sunday arrives and it's like "Well, I've done everything now... I'm bored and lonely."

I think ignoring her response entirely is the best way forward though.

I need to find other cute girls to chat with .


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm tired, and hungover - and I'm *not* thinking about STBXW! This is good. Usually when I feel like this I get down and mope about, however today, nope.

I also haven't thought about whether me ignoring her message is starting to grate on her or not - I just don't care.

I'm actually looking forward to Christmas today too, I didn't think I would this year at all, but it'll be nice to spend some quality time with the family! They've been great to me throughout all of this, especially my little sister.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm tired, and hungover - and I'm *not* thinking about STBXW! This is good.


WWB - it's not horrible that you still think about her.

You're still withdrawing.

Don't fight against the emotion/thought - you give "it" more power when you do. 
"50K" the emotion and let it pass naturally. It will.


----------



## jeffthechef

WantWifeBack said:


> I know, I really shouldn't. The weekends are tough though, especially Sundays - I think because on Saturday I feel like:
> 
> "Awesome, it's the weekend, time to get some things done and chill out!"
> 
> Then Sunday arrives and it's like "Well, I've done everything now... I'm bored and lonely."
> 
> I think ignoring her response entirely is the best way forward though.
> 
> *I need to find other cute girls to chat with* .



No, you don't.

You *need* to be okay with the fact that bored and lonely happens. Searching out some girl at a club to validate you may feel nice, stroke your ego a bit. But, in the end it's just a distraction from the truth. And that is, you're not okay.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> WWB - it's not horrible that you still think about her.
> 
> You're still withdrawing.
> 
> Don't fight against the emotion/thought - you give "it" more power when you do.
> "50K" the emotion and let it pass naturally. It will.


Yeah, you're right. If at any point I find myself thinking about her or feeling anything towards her, I'll do this.



> No, you don't.
> 
> You need to be okay with the fact that bored and lonely happens. Searching out some girl at a club to validate you may feel nice, stroke your ego a bit. But, in the end it's just a distraction from the truth. And that is, you're not okay.


Yeah I know fella - It's why I'm not looking for anything right now. I'm doing as much as I can to work on myself, get familiar with being alone, and learning to love myself


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, Christmas came and went. I actually had a really awesome Christmas and didn't think of STBXW too much. I also didn't receive any communications from her wishing me a merry Christmas, which I was both pleased and sad about (although, I shouldn't have been sad). 

My first Christmas without her was nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be.

I find myself reflecting on where I was four months ago, to where I am now. I truly have surprised myself. I didn't realise the strength that I had, and as my confidence grows, my self-respect grows. As my self-respect grows, the less and less I have the odd thought of "I want her back".


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> So, Christmas came and went. I actually had a really awesome Christmas and didn't think of STBXW too much. I also didn't receive any communications from her wishing me a merry Christmas, which I was both pleased and sad about (although, I shouldn't have been sad).
> 
> My first Christmas without her was nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be.
> 
> I find myself reflecting on where I was four months ago, to where I am now. I truly have surprised myself. I didn't realise the strength that I had, and as my confidence grows, my self-respect grows. As my self-respect grows, the less and less I have the odd thought of "I want her back".


Good to hear WWB. So happy for you.


----------



## LongWalk

The essence of her betrayal was the using. The surgery you paid for so that she could up her sex ranking, the driving lessons you paid for so that she could improve her mobility, etc. all of leeching behavior.

You will not repeat in your next relationship.

Get your license and a nice car.

In your D settlement you get half the value of the car, make sure you fight for that.

Next woman will feel secure about her body

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, I haven't been posting much lately, I've been keeping really busy socialising over the holidays. 

During my socialising, I have piqued the interest of two attractive women, but only one of which our personalities are compatible.

It's a shame that I'm not looking for any relationships right now, 'cause I'll be missing out. 

I met her at a house party (awkwardly, hosted by the other female of the two) and we hit it off. We laid in bed together (I was a perfect gent) and talked until 5am this morning. She has been texting me all day too.

Both of them are joining me in the local pub for New Year's Eve celebrations soon.


----------



## just got it 55

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I haven't been posting much lately, I've been keeping really busy socialising over the holidays.
> 
> During my socialising, I have piqued the interest of two attractive women, but only one of which our personalities are compatible.
> 
> It's a shame that I'm not looking for any relationships right now, 'cause I'll be missing out.
> 
> I met her at a house party (awkwardly, hosted by the other female of the two) and we hit it off. We laid in bed together (I was a perfect gent) and talked until 5am this morning. She has been texting me all day too.
> 
> Both of them are joining me in the local pub for New Year's Eve celebrations soon.


Who needs "whatshername" ?

Keep her in the rear view


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I haven't been posting much lately, I've been keeping really busy socialising over the holidays.
> 
> During my socialising, I have piqued the interest of two attractive women, but only one of which our personalities are compatible.
> 
> It's a shame that I'm not looking for any relationships right now, 'cause I'll be missing out.
> 
> I met her at a house party (awkwardly, hosted by the other female of the two) and we hit it off. We laid in bed together (I was a perfect gent) and talked until 5am this morning. She has been texting me all day too.
> 
> Both of them are joining me in the local pub for New Year's Eve celebrations soon.


That's good news. 

I don't know whether to suggest playing hard to get, or to go for it. That's up to your gut-instinct though.

Whatever you decide, I've written an essay, in the hope that one or two things in it may be new and useful for you:

- Beautiful women are not a rare commodity and they don't want to be worshipped and flattered, they want real and interesting conversation. People don't approach and talk to them like human beings as much as you might expect, so some of the most beautiful ones are literally starving for intelligent conversation... and not worship. But even If this one doesn't bite... another one will come along. Nothing lost by friendly chatting is there. "Isn't It Fun To Hang Out, no expectations" = "I'm not needy". 

- From the woman's perspective however... a confident, easy-going, self-respecting man is gold-dust... there are so many weak willed males, that if a man stands out in this way, she can't help at the very least liking him. Even if he were bald and broke. Of course, you should never verbalise this attitude to her. Never 'say' your attitude or boast, just live it.

Mystery - "Why is he confident? He's happy - why?" they say to themselves. He doesn't have a Ferrari... doesn't look like Clooney... They can't come up with "He just is.", so they fantasise. Maybe he's a good dancer. Maybe he's an artist, a traveller, a gentleman, maybe there's muscles under his shirt... 

This woman who was older than me, came out with a zinger when I was dating her. 

I asked her "what do customers think about when they're chatting with me?" (you know, long enough for the boss to be getting annoyed about it) She said "Well, when it was me, and we were chatting, I was wondering what your c*ck would be like." Of course, this made me laugh for a few days every time some female customer was keeping me from my work with long conversation.

- Don't you be the one to verbalise your feelings for her. At least, not in words! Example: mentioning that you're thinking of going to a concert (must be true! She'll ask 'when'?) when talking about a band, and then " maybe you could come along." - "says" you're interested in her in womanspeak, but also leaves room for a little doubt - this little bit of "does-he doesn't-he" tension excites them. Never "say" bluntly when you can "show" or suggest.

- Don't wait for conversation to run out. This will be leaving her at a low point. When it's starting to wane, offer her a cup of tea, buy a pint of beer, ask if she wants to go for a walk, tell her about your guitar, show her it, ask if she plays... just do something else. A new convo might develop, or she might come up with something to add to the old one in the intermission.

- If you're on the phone, have a good conversation, short or long... but discipline yourself to sign off a good while before you've run out of things to say. "Can I call you back later? I'm just going to go and put dinner on/feed the cat/hang out the washing. Shall I call you tomorrow maybe?" 
When she is still happy and into the conversation, then start to think about leaving it "there". This way the last memory of you is good, and the tension of looking forward to the next conversation is higher. Same goes with text messages. It's well mannered to send one when you said you would, but there's no need for text-essays, or to respond straight away to every text = well mannered, but not needy.

- Don't talk negatively about your Ex or any other woman. Take the attitude that she wasn't what you were looking for (ooooh, a fella with standards!), so you went your own ways.

- When you are talking, if you listen with an open mind instead of planning the words of your next sentence, you automatically pick up clues of where to take the conversation. You start to 'read minds' through taking in the body language you didn't notice before. Just like magic. Your words will come out naturally too, you won't be self-conscious if you are lost in listening. Ignore internal conversations that feature doubt, or 'I'm losing her interest'. Focus instead on: 'this is fun. this conversation lark is challenging but I'm enjoying the challenge and I'm getting good at it.'

-Someone asks you a question. You don't immediately know how to respond. No need to panic and come out with some irrelevant bollocks... have a pause, look away for a couple of seconds before looking back (or whatever you do when you're accessing your brain banks) Show that you're putting thought into your answer. Pauses can be beneficial when what comes after the pause is mind-blowing or well-considered, or is well tailored to the other person (such as 'picks up on' something they've said and expands on it. shows you're really listening.)

- It's OK to talk about sex. In my experience, women who are a bit experienced try to shock or provoke embarrassment in men by discussing sex. It makes me laugh because I'm very experimental and they think they know something I don't. It doesn't really matter what you answer, you can joke about it or whatever, the real answer they are looking at is non-verbal: whether you are comfortable with your body, and confident enough to talk about sex without swallowing your tongue. Don't be tempted to boast, just show that you find this topic OK, maybe even interesting.

-It's always a good idea to be aware of your lungs expanding and deflating, and to let this be calm, regular and relaxed. Practice it even when you're not with anyone, so that awareness becomes normal. Your voice will be naturally deeper if you are mindful of your breath coming in and out regularly. This is the true essence of meditation, not folding your legs or closing your eyes and trying to 'force' your mind to stop thinking. Non-thinking comes naturally in an awareness-state. You'll find you don't flush as often, stratch your face (etc) because your blood pressure will be cool and manageable.

- A deeper voice also comes with this relaxed breathing, and it with a deeper voice you will sound like you've got more Testosterone, but more than that, a voice that does not suddenly break pitch says "honesty". Trust me, whenever I had done something at work which could get me fired - at least a few times every year - I controlled my breathing and it was easy to seem honest and unruffled.

It's not manipulation - when you're feeling confident, you do these things naturally. It's just about giving people the 'confident' side of you that they really want you to be; As time goes on, It will feel completely natural.

Have a good time, I'm rooting for the new you ! :smthumbup:


----------



## Sandfly

Oof finished. So much editing


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> That's good news.
> 
> I don't know whether to suggest playing hard to get, or to go for it. That's up to your gut-instinct though.
> 
> Whatever you decide, I've written an essay, in the hope that one or two things in it may be new and useful for you:
> 
> - Beautiful women are not a rare commodity and they don't want to be worshipped and flattered, they want real and interesting conversation. People don't approach and talk to them like human beings as much as you might expect, so some of the most beautiful ones are literally starving for intelligent conversation... and not worship. But even If this one doesn't bite... another one will come along. Nothing lost by friendly chatting is there. "Isn't It Fun To Hang Out, no expectations" = "I'm not needy".
> 
> - From the woman's perspective however... a confident, easy-going, self-respecting man is gold-dust... there are so many weak willed males, that if a man stands out in this way, she can't help at the very least liking him. Even if he were bald and broke. Of course, you should never verbalise this attitude to her. Never 'say' your attitude or boast, just live it.
> 
> Mystery - "Why is he confident? He's happy - why?" they say to themselves. He doesn't have a Ferrari... doesn't look like Clooney... They can't come up with "He just is.", so they fantasise. Maybe he's a good dancer. Maybe he's an artist, a traveller, a gentleman, maybe there's muscles under his shirt...
> 
> This woman who was older than me, came out with a zinger when I was dating her.
> 
> I asked her "what do customers think about when they're chatting with me?" (you know, long enough for the boss to be getting annoyed about it) She said "Well, when it was me, and we were chatting, I was wondering what your c*ck would be like." Of course, this made me laugh for a few days every time some female customer was keeping me from my work with long conversation.
> 
> - Don't you be the one to verbalise your feelings for her. At least, not in words! Example: mentioning that you're thinking of going to a concert (must be true! She'll ask 'when'?) when talking about a band, and then " maybe you could come along." - "says" you're interested in her in womanspeak, but also leaves room for a little doubt - this little bit of "does-he doesn't-he" tension excites them. Never "say" bluntly when you can "show" or suggest.
> 
> - Don't wait for conversation to run out. This will be leaving her at a low point. When it's starting to wane, offer her a cup of tea, buy a pint of beer, ask if she wants to go for a walk, tell her about your guitar, show her it, ask if she plays... just do something else. A new convo might develop, or she might come up with something to add to the old one in the intermission.
> 
> - If you're on the phone, have a good conversation, short or long... but discipline yourself to sign off a good while before you've run out of things to say. "Can I call you back later? I'm just going to go and put dinner on/feed the cat/hang out the washing. Shall I call you tomorrow maybe?"
> When she is still happy and into the conversation, then start to think about leaving it "there". This way the last memory of you is good, and the tension of looking forward to the next conversation is higher. Same goes with text messages. It's well mannered to send one when you said you would, but there's no need for text-essays, or to respond straight away to every text = well mannered, but not needy.
> 
> - Don't talk negatively about your Ex or any other woman. Take the attitude that she wasn't what you were looking for (ooooh, a fella with standards!), so you went your own ways.
> 
> - When you are talking, if you listen with an open mind instead of planning the words of your next sentence, you automatically pick up clues of where to take the conversation. You start to 'read minds' through taking in the body language you didn't notice before. Just like magic. Your words will come out naturally too, you won't be self-conscious if you are lost in listening. Ignore internal conversations that feature doubt, or 'I'm losing her interest'. Focus instead on: 'this is fun. this conversation lark is challenging but I'm enjoying the challenge and I'm getting good at it.'
> 
> -Someone asks you a question. You don't immediately know how to respond. No need to panic and come out with some irrelevant bollocks... have a pause, look away for a couple of seconds before looking back (or whatever you do when you're accessing your brain banks) Show that you're putting thought into your answer. Pauses can be beneficial when what comes after the pause is mind-blowing or well-considered, or is well tailored to the other person (such as 'picks up on' something they've said and expands on it. shows you're really listening.)
> 
> - It's OK to talk about sex. In my experience, women who are a bit experienced try to shock or provoke embarrassment in men by discussing sex. It makes me laugh because I'm very experimental and they think they know something I don't. It doesn't really matter what you answer, you can joke about it or whatever, the real answer they are looking at is non-verbal: whether you are comfortable with your body, and confident enough to talk about sex without swallowing your tongue. Don't be tempted to boast, just show that you find this topic OK, maybe even interesting.
> 
> -It's always a good idea to be aware of your lungs expanding and deflating, and to let this be calm, regular and relaxed. Practice it even when you're not with anyone, so that awareness becomes normal. Your voice will be naturally deeper if you are mindful of your breath coming in and out regularly. This is the true essence of meditation, not folding your legs or closing your eyes and trying to 'force' your mind to stop thinking. Non-thinking comes naturally in an awareness-state. You'll find you don't flush as often, stratch your face (etc) because your blood pressure will be cool and manageable.
> 
> - A deeper voice also comes with this relaxed breathing, and it with a deeper voice you will sound like you've got more Testosterone, but more than that, a voice that does not suddenly break pitch says "honesty". Trust me, whenever I had done something at work which could get me fired - at least a few times every year - I controlled my breathing and it was easy to seem honest and unruffled.
> 
> It's not manipulation - when you're feeling confident, you do these things naturally. It's just about giving people the 'confident' side of you that they really want you to be; As time goes on, It will feel completely natural.
> 
> Have a good time, I'm rooting for the new you ! :smthumbup:


That's some great advice Sandfly, a lot of that applies to how I was with her yesterday, and how I am being with our further communication today.

As I said before, I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment, but she's a really nice woman - however she is only 20 years old - I don't want to but I find myself perhaps wondering if she is mature enough.


----------



## GotLifeBack

And concerning gut instinct - I think maybe a mix of both.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> That's some great advice Sandfly, a lot of that applies to how I was with her yesterday, and how I am being with our further communication today.
> 
> As I said before, *I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment*, but she's a really nice woman - however she is only 20 years old - I don't want to but *I find myself perhaps wondering if she is mature enough*.


Good to hear - Yes... When you are comfortable, these things come naturally anyway !

This bits in bold show the right attitude. There is no reason to rush anything. You control your life.

You are the one doing the choosing this time. A confident man is a rare prize for women. While being friendly and communicative, He doesn't give away his power, and his time is valuable.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> So, I haven't been posting much lately, I've been keeping really busy socialising over the holidays.
> 
> During my socialising, I have piqued the interest of two attractive women, but only one of which our personalities are compatible.
> 
> It's a shame that I'm not looking for any relationships right now, 'cause I'll be missing out.
> 
> I met her at a house party (awkwardly, hosted by the other female of the two) and we hit it off. We laid in bed together (I was a perfect gent) and talked until 5am this morning. She has been texting me all day too.
> 
> Both of them are joining me in the local pub for New Year's Eve celebrations soon.


Wow WWB. Good for you.

You know, usually when you are not looking for any relationships, that's when they show up.

You could just continue to talk and see what happens. There is no pressure. 

Freedom = being able to do whatever you want.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Good to hear - Yes... When you are comfortable, these things come naturally anyway !
> 
> This bits in bold show the right attitude. There is no reason to rush anything. You control your life.
> 
> You are the one doing the choosing this time. A confident man is a rare prize for women. While being friendly and communicative, He doesn't give away his power, and his time is valuable.


Indeed SF, I agree completely. I am becoming more comfortable .

I guess I'll keep talking to her, seeing her and see where things could lead. I'm starting to think it may be an idea to stay at 50k with potential relationships as well as broken ones.



> Wow WWB. Good for you.
> 
> You know, usually when you are not looking for any relationships, that's when they show up.
> 
> You could just continue to talk and see what happens. There is no pressure.
> 
> Freedom = being able to do whatever you want.


Thanks KS 

Yeah, I have noticed that's when things happen - Irony!

I like freedom .


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed SF, I agree completely. I am becoming more comfortable .
> 
> I guess I'll keep talking to her, seeing her and see where things could lead. I'm starting to think it may be an idea to stay at 50k with potential relationships as well as broken ones.


Why would you ever wish to descend back into the weeds of codependence?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> Why would you ever wish to descend back into the weeds of codependence?


Hence staying at 50k  I do not ever wish to become codependent again. It simply can't be allowed to happen.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Happy New Year guys!  I hope you all had a good New Years Eve.

I met up with both of them on NYE as part of a large group - it was an amazing night and I kissed one of them at midnight (we'll call her Miss T). At the end of the night I ended up going and staying at her place, and spending most of New Years Day with her. I didn't have sex with her, but we cuddled and kissed a lot, and did so too throughout the next day.

The other girl, who I'll call Miss L, got a little irate with me at one point in the night saying "I can't believe you picked Miss T over me!" - she had had a little much to drink though.


----------



## Sandfly

WantWifeBack said:


> Happy New Year guys!  I hope you all had a good New Years Eve.
> 
> I met up with both of them on NYE as part of a large group - it was an amazing night and I kissed one of them at midnight (we'll call her Miss T). At the end of the night I ended up going and staying at her place, and spending most of New Years Day with her. I didn't have sex with her, but we cuddled and kissed a lot, and did so too throughout the next day.
> 
> The other girl, who I'll call Miss L, got a little irate with me at one point in the night saying "I can't believe you picked Miss T over me!" - she had had a little much to drink though.


Nice to hear!

There's a little boost for you ! They'll all be fighting over you soon


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Nice to hear!
> 
> There's a little boost for you ! They'll all be fighting over you soon


Indeed it was, they are both very attractive physically, but in terms of personality, me and Miss T get on really well.

I'm considering asking Miss T if she wants to do something with me soon. I don't know what though. Both Miss T and Miss L are friends of my sister, Miss T has confided in my sister that she "likes me".

Despite everything, the little old un-confident WWB voice in the back of my head says "is she really interested?". It's clear to see that she is, but I still have the small doubt which frustrates me. Either way, when I ask her to do something with me, I'll know then.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed it was, they are both very attractive physically, but in terms of personality, me and Miss T get on really well.
> 
> I'm considering asking Miss T if she wants to do something with me soon. I don't know what though. Both Miss T and Miss L are friends of my sister, Miss T has confided in my sister that she "likes me".
> 
> Despite everything, the little old un-confident WWB voice in the back of my head says "is she really interested?". It's clear to see that she is, but I still have the small doubt which frustrates me. Either way, when I ask her to do something with me, I'll know then.


Plate spinning. Do not forget this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Plate spinning. Do not forget this.


Indeed, I won't. I still have plates spinning, and have made a lot more female acquaintances than I had before, over the last couple of weeks!

I actually have a few plates spinning still, Miss T's seems to be spinning faster than the others though, and I'm not even putting any effort in really aside from communicating.

I think Miss L's plate will drop, as she's a close friend of Miss T.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, I feel as though my time at TAM is coming to an end, or at least a hiatus. I have no real updates regarding my marriage anymore. I have a handle on the situation, and on myself. I'll check in from time to time, and who knows what the future holds, I may end up back here when coping with my divorce.

If anyone would like to stay in contact, private message me and I'll happily add you to facebook.

Thank you to everyone for everything you've done for me, everything you've helped me with, and every kind, and harsh but fair word on this thread.

WWB.


----------



## Sandfly

It's been a pleasure to read your posts and see you get to a better place.

I don't use facebook, it's the devil's work.

But send a PM when you pop in from time to time.

Actually, truth be told, I should be getting on with other stuff instead of filling up on people's stories.

Ciao, bello!


----------



## KnottedStomach

Sandfly said:


> I don't use facebook, it's the devil's work.


Ditto on this.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Well guys, I feel as though my time at TAM is coming to an end, or at least a hiatus. I have no real updates regarding my marriage anymore. I have a handle on the situation, and on myself. I'll check in from time to time, and who knows what the future holds, I may end up back here when coping with my divorce.
> 
> If anyone would like to stay in contact, private message me and I'll happily add you to facebook.
> 
> Thank you to everyone for everything you've done for me, everything you've helped me with, and every kind, and harsh but fair word on this thread.
> 
> WWB.


Wow WWB. Good to hear you are doing better. May things stay on the up and up.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also, worth mentioning - I have a date with Miss T on Saturday night :smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

WWB,

Update if the mood seizes you.

Best of luck!


----------



## azteca1986

Best of luck to you, WWB. I hope 2014 brings you everything you deserve. 

Don't be a stranger, let us know how you're doing if you can.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Actually, I will update this from time to time. I can't leave all my friends here behind! 

My date on Saturday night went exceptionally well, she ended up staying at my place. No sex though as we're just taking things slow and whatever happens, happens. But as on NYE, lots of kissing and touching, things got pretty heated and the following day she confessed that she's having extreme difficulty resisting. I think that's wise though considering we both got hurt last year. The next day we spent most of the day hanging out together, went out and got some lunch and met up with some of my friends etc. All in all it was good. She keeps talking about the near future (1-2 months time) like I'll be a part of it. I actually quite like that idea. Whilst she was at my place, we arranged a big party night out together and booked a hotel in the city for afterwards - that's in a month's time so hopefully things will continue to go well.

She also wants to see me again this weekend coming, and I don't have many plans, so I'll arrange something with her soon to fit around what I have got planned. 

We also seem to have a lot in common, the main thing is music, we both absolutely love music.

I also did something on Saturday that I didn't do with my ex for years - I played my guitar in front of her. Unlike STBXW, Miss T seems amazed and captivated by my playing. STBXW didn't like it because when I play my sole focus is my guitar, STBXW didn't like not being the centre of attention.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, in a bizarre turn of events, STBXW messaged me last night after over a month of NC.

"Hi, I don't know why I am sending this but I just wanted to know how you are."

I didn't reply, I have no time for her.

If I had replied, I would have said 

"I know why you are sending this, it's one of:

You're trying to f*ck with my head again;
You're lonely, or;
You miss me

Whichever it is, I'm not interested."


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, in a bizarre turn of events, STBXW messaged me last night after over a month of NC.
> 
> "Hi, I don't know why I am sending this but I just wanted to know how you are."
> 
> I didn't reply, I have no time for her.
> 
> If I had replied, I would have said
> 
> "I know why you are sending this, it's one of:
> 
> You're trying to f*ck with my head again;
> You're lonely, or;
> You miss me
> 
> Whichever it is, I'm not interested."


Brother......maintain your NC!!!! If she wanted to see you, she would come see you and not text. 

Proud of you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Brother......maintain your NC!!!! If she wanted to see you, she would come see you and not text.
> 
> Proud of you.


NC maintained fella .

She can try to see me all she wants, I don't want to see her though so it won't work .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also worth mentioning, I had a discussion with Miss T about whatever it is that's between us. 

We both made it clear to each other that neither one of us are ready for a relationship, and we're not rushing in to anything. Just taking things slowly and what will be will be.

She hasn't even explicitly told me that she's in to me, but it's shockingly obvious. I see it when she looks at me, I feel it when she kisses me and touches me. I don't need her words, her actions speak loud enough.


----------



## RandomDude

Keep your heart in a safe place and go at a steady pace mate

As for your disease-ridden STBXW... HA!


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> Keep your heart in a safe place and go at a steady pace mate
> 
> As for your disease-ridden STBXW... HA!


I am mate, keeping well guarded, not rushing anything. She is keeping guarded too - she had a 4 year LTR end last year and it was painful for her, and also two further relationships end within a month - I'd imagine they were rebounds but I don't know, nor do I need to.

As a rule, I don't pursue a relationship with anyone unless I fully believe it could be the real deal - I don't know her well enough to determine that yet.

Time will tell, for now I'll have fun enjoying her company and attention.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, in a bizarre turn of events, STBXW messaged me last night after over a month of NC.
> 
> "Hi, I don't know why I am sending this but I just wanted to know how you are."
> 
> I didn't reply, I have no time for her.
> 
> If I had replied, I would have said
> 
> "I know why you are sending this, it's one of:
> 
> You're trying to f*ck with my head again;
> You're lonely, or;
> You miss me
> 
> Whichever it is, I'm not interested."


Life at 50K. Good job.

Women have a sense when they are losing their "Plan B".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> Life at 50K. Good job.
> 
> Women have a sense when they are losing their "Plan B".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you're right, it's like some emotional empathetic link.

She's fixed in the rear view now, I'm looking forward, I don't know what's around the corner, but I'll deal with that when it comes to it.


----------



## LongWalk

Great the way you denied STBX any ego boost. There are various possibilities to explain her behavior:

1) Sentimentality. You were into her. Now you are not. She misses you as the source of adoration that she held in contempt.

2) Some guy told her she was great in bed. They met some more but he started avoiding her because her face grimaced in orgasm did not excite love feelings. Sex was not enough to compensate for the flaws in her character.

"Hi,* I don't know why* I am sending this but I just wanted to know how you are."

She had to say "I don't know why" to put you down yet again. Rude to the max.

The only answer is no reply. But if you were to play a mind game, the return message would have been: "*I do*."

She'd spend two and half days, trying to figure out "what did he mean".


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Great the way you denied STBX any ego boost. There are various possibilities to explain her behavior:
> 
> 1) Sentimentality. You were into her. Now you are not. She misses you as the source of adoration that she held in contempt.
> 
> 2) Some guy told her she was great in bed. They met some more but he started avoiding her because her face grimaced in orgasm did not excite love feelings. Sex was enough to compensate for the flaws in her character.
> 
> "Hi,* I don't know why* I am sending this but I just wanted to know how you are."
> 
> She had to say "I don't know why" to put you down yet again. Rude to the max.
> 
> The only answer is no reply. But if you were to play a mind game, the return message would have been: "*I do*."
> 
> She'd spend two and half days, trying to figure out "what did he mean".


Yeah, yet another put down, you're right.

"Why would I even bother talking to you"
"Why would I bother trying to establish contact with you"

Yet.... she did .

I won't be replying at all. I'm actually surprised that when I read the message my initial reaction was laughter, followed by thinking "what the f*ck is she playing at??".

I have no time for her, no time for boosting her ego, no time for R. No time.

The past stays in the past, the future is where I'm headed.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Still haven't responded to STBXW, I'm pretty happy with myself for that :smthumbup:.

She sent the message via whatsapp - and I noticed that she had logged in yesterday, to check if I'd been online and hadn't replied to her. I use whatsapp frequently to communicate with Miss T. So she will have seen that I had been using it .

Speaking of Miss T - I have another date with her this weekend, potentially two dates :smthumbup:. She's also joining my gym later today to come and train with me and my buddies.


----------



## LongWalk

Great that you are now the dumper. Have you read LostLove77's thread?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Great that you are now the dumper. Have you read LostLove77's thread?


I'm not sure if me not responding to her message qualifies me as the dumper haha, but I'd imagine it's somewhat of a shock to her.

I don't believe I have read that thread.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not sure if me not responding to her message qualifies me as the dumper haha, but I'd imagine it's somewhat of a shock to her.
> 
> I don't believe I have read that thread.


A win is a win. 

They'll be several attempts in the near-future. I won't be surprised if she dials it up a bit.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> A win is a win.
> 
> They'll be several attempts in the near-future. I won't be surprised if she dials it up a bit.


I'm not entirely sure she will make any further attempts. She's extremely stubborn and bears grudges. Me not replying to her will outrage her and just add to her "He's an a$$hole, I'm so glad I left him" mentality, which works out just fine for me.

Knowing what I now know about her as a person, I'm 99.9% confident that she only tried to initiate contact to see if she still had me hanging. Sadly for her, that thread broke about a week before Christmas. No looking back for me now. I've left my tunnel and the exit has caved in.

I hope she doesn't persist to be honest, I could do without that.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm not entirely sure she will make any further attempts. She's extremely stubborn and bears grudges. Me not replying to her will outrage her and just add to her "He's an a$$hole, I'm so glad I left him" mentality, which works out just fine for me..


That's not how their mind works.
You're taking a counter intuitive approach - It's likely, that their is more to come.



WantWifeBack said:


> I hope she doesn't persist to be honest, I could do without that.


If only life was that simple. :rofl:

Keep moving fwd brother.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> That's not how their mind works.
> You're taking a counter intuitive approach - It's likely, that their is more to come.
> 
> 
> If only life was that simple. :rofl:
> 
> Keep moving fwd brother.


Well, if there is more to come, bring it on. I got this. 

When you finally stay at 50k, it's so easy to deal with. I spent months whining about NC, about missing her etc etc. Now I realise the best thing to do is nothing, for my own sanity that is. It's easy to not get drawn in to the drama, the pain, and all of the stress that comes with it. I just needed to get to a point emotionally where I could put it in to practice without faltering. 

If she bothers me too much, I'll simply block her on Whatsapp. I only left it unblocked in case she needed to discuss something important. Initially that was R or D. Now, it's just D. R is no longer important to me. 

Heh, I wish life was that simple too mate. Then again, in my experience, simplicity + time = boredom.


----------



## bandit.45

Block her calls. Block her e-mails. You have no children with her is there is no reason not to block her from your life completely.


----------



## GotLifeBack

bandit.45 said:


> Block her calls. Block her e-mails. You have no children with her is there is no reason not to block her from your life completely.


Her calls and emails are blocked. Her facebook is also blocked. 

Ideally, as we have such a straightforward divorce ahead, I'd like to keep lawyers out of it as I don't have a great deal of money. This is my reasoning for leaving Whatsapp unblocked.


----------



## LongWalk

It's good to have one channel of communication. It's not like you are are easily available for emotional buggery.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> It's good to have one channel of communication. It's not like you are are easily available for emotional buggery.


Yeah I'd say it is. It's not open for talking or being friends, it's open for business only .

The only other channel of communication would be via physical mail, and that's just too slow nowadays.


----------



## LongWalk

You'll have more contact with her and when she sees that you've move on, she'll feel funny inside.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> You'll have more contact with her and when she sees that you've move on, she'll feel funny inside.


She may have contact with me, but I won't have any with her . I'm beyond caring now.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, another date with Miss T tonight  looking forward to it!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, Sunday morning STBXW tried to call me, but as her number is blocked it hung up on her and notified me of her attempt. She followed up with a message.

She wanted to know if I still had the vaccination records for our dog as the new owners were asking about it. However, the dog has been gone for 3-4 months now, I find it hard to believe the new owners are only just asking about it now. She also said she'd meet me to collect the paperwork if I had it (perhaps this is the real reason behind her message?)

I searched for the paperwork and couldn't find it, I responded with "I don't have it anymore, I must have thrown it away."

She didn't reply after that.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also, my date with Miss T went very well again, I ended up spending most of the weekend with her, and she stayed at my place on Friday and Saturday night.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Also, my date with Miss T went very well again, I ended up spending most of the weekend with her, and she stayed at my place on Friday and Saturday night.


Happy for you WWB.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Happy for you WWB.


Thanks KS. It's early days and we're still taking things slowly, but there's potential there.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> Thanks KS. It's early days and we're still taking things slowly, but there's potential there.


You know what the best thing about a new relationship is - it's a clean slate


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> You know what the best thing about a new relationship is - it's a clean slate


A clean slate indeed - it may not bloom in to a relationship yet however. We're affectionate with one another, we kiss, cuddle etc, are flirty and playful and it's great fun.

I must say, whilst I agree with her choice to take things slowly, and I think that's best for me too, I do find it rather frustrating now knowing exactly where I stand. I've known her a little over two weeks now, so it's still way too soon to have that talk with her though.


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> A clean slate indeed - it may not bloom in to a relationship yet however. We're affectionate with one another, we kiss, cuddle etc, are flirty and playful and it's great fun.
> 
> I must say, whilst I agree with her choice to take things slowly, and I think that's best for me too, I do find it rather frustrating now knowing exactly where I stand. I've known her a little over two weeks now, so it's still way too soon to have that talk with her though.


I don't know. I think it just depends on how you feel. You should do whatever you want to do, instead of working on some time frame. Just be you, the rest will fall into place. It's not like there is a manual for this stuff.

And always remember - "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> I don't know. I think it just depends on how you feel. You should do whatever you want to do, instead of working on some time frame. Just be you, the rest will fall into place. It's not like there is a manual for this stuff.
> 
> And always remember - "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss


As I said, there's definitely potential there, no rush though. It's like being stuck in the other end of Limbo sometimes though .

I'm sure it'll all be clear eventually.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So guys, I could use some advice I think.

I'm starting to think that Miss T may be falling for me, I'll list some of the things that make me think this:

- She constantly messages me.

- She always wants to see me (weekends, and joining the gym in my home town instead of her home town).

- She cares about me (I have a bad eczema flare up on my hands at the moment, she always nags to me apply ointment, and has applied it for me completely unprompted too).

- She has told me what she wants from the future, from a relationship, and often speaks about her future as if it includes me.

- She was extremely happy when we were mistaken for a couple.

- She demonstrates her household value by sending me pictures of meals she has cooked. 

- She demonstrates her sexual value by sending me suggestive pictures of her.

- When I do see her she always has to be near me or touching me.

- A look in her eyes when she looks at me that I can't quite describe, but I saw this same look from STBXW.

- Obvious sexual attraction/tension.

- She always wants to know more about me.

- Yesterday I was supposed to meet her at the gym but was delayed due to a road accident, she seemed very sad and anxious about whether I'd make it in time to see her or not.

- At the weekend she was scrolling through pictures on her phone, and I noticed she had pictures of me that I haven't sent her, so she must have downloaded them from my facebook profile.

- She's usually very careful with her words, but after she's had a few drinks, she talks about us entering a relationship in the future like it's a certainty.

- She's told me things like she thinks I'm sexy, intelligent, funny, a good man, and that she finds me very attractive.

It's clear that she's in to me, I'm just trying to determine if that's on more than a physical level.

Any thoughts?


----------



## LongWalk

Have you already been having sex?


----------



## GotLifeBack

No, not yet, we both want to, but we're taking it slowly.


----------



## Honorbound

Of course it's on more than a physical level. She is falling for you and wants to see where it goes. If it was _just_ physical you'd have had a ONS and been done with it.

Enjoy the ride, but KEEP IT SLOW!!! You both need to make sure you aren't mirroring or overlooking things that might be problems in the future.

... and never be afraid to walk away.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> Of course it's on more than a physical level. She is falling for you and wants to see where it goes. If it was _just_ physical you'd have had a ONS and been done with it.
> 
> Enjoy the ride, but KEEP IT SLOW!!! You both need to make sure you aren't mirroring or overlooking things that might be problems in the future.
> 
> ... and never be afraid to walk away.


Definitely keeping it slow brother, there is no other way right now .

I'm not afraid to walk away or pull back if things go wrong or move too fast.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Good to see you're back on the horse.

You're a changed man, WWB. Have some fun


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Good to see you're back on the horse.
> 
> You're a changed man, WWB. Have some fun


Haha, I will do - I feel like a changed man. I feel wiser, more confident, authentic and generally a lot happier than I was in the last couple years of my relationship/marriage.

On to better things for me, eventually .

Infact, I think I'd be utterly stupid to go through all of this and not come out the other side a better man for it.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

And only 93 pages

Some of the guys here can learn from you...

If you ever want a self-kick in the a$$, re-read the first half of your thread sometime.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> And only 93 pages
> 
> Some of the guys here can learn from you...
> 
> If you ever want a self-kick in the a$$, re-read the first half of your thread sometime.


"Only" 93 haha 

I actually do re-read the first half every now and then, sometimes just random pages etc. I shudder when I look at the "man" I was.

I owe a lot of the man I have become to all you guys here, for pointing me in the right direction. Sure, I put the work in, but you were all my guides .


----------



## angstire

WantWifeBack said:


> "Only" 93 haha
> 
> I actually do re-read the first half every now and then, sometimes just random pages etc. I shudder when I look at the "man" I was.
> 
> I owe a lot of the man I have become to all you guys here, for pointing me in the right direction. Sure, I put the work in, but you were all my guides .


I don't like who I would still be without TAM, IC, books, my 2nd divorce as a catalyst to wake the fvck up. 

I'm grateful. I'm glad to see you are too.

Few wake up from the a$$holes they were to become their new shiny selves.


----------



## just got it 55

WantWifeBack said:


> So guys, I could use some advice I think.
> 
> I'm starting to think that Miss T may be falling for me, I'll list some of the things that make me think this:
> 
> - She constantly messages me.
> 
> - She always wants to see me (weekends, and joining the gym in my home town instead of her home town).
> 
> - She cares about me (I have a bad eczema flare up on my hands at the moment, she always nags to me apply ointment, and has applied it for me completely unprompted too).
> 
> - She has told me what she wants from the future, from a relationship, and often speaks about her future as if it includes me.
> 
> - She was extremely happy when we were mistaken for a couple.
> 
> - She demonstrates her household value by sending me pictures of meals she has cooked.
> 
> - She demonstrates her sexual value by sending me suggestive pictures of her.
> 
> - When I do see her she always has to be near me or touching me.
> 
> - A look in her eyes when she looks at me that I can't quite describe, but I saw this same look from STBXW.
> 
> - Obvious sexual attraction/tension.
> 
> - She always wants to know more about me.
> 
> - Yesterday I was supposed to meet her at the gym but was delayed due to a road accident, she seemed very sad and anxious about whether I'd make it in time to see her or not.
> 
> - At the weekend she was scrolling through pictures on her phone, and I noticed she had pictures of me that I haven't sent her, so she must have downloaded them from my facebook profile.
> 
> - She's usually very careful with her words, but after she's had a few drinks, she talks about us entering a relationship in the future like it's a certainty.
> 
> - She's told me things like she thinks I'm sexy, intelligent, funny, a good man, and that she finds me very attractive.
> 
> It's clear that she's in to me, I'm just trying to determine if that's on more than a physical level.
> 
> Any thoughts?



Yup Dude She is most definitely into you.
She seems insecure.
Something to be watchful of 

Other than that I love when chicks dig me 

55


----------



## Red Sonja

WantWifeBack said:


> So guys, I could use some advice I think.
> 
> I'm starting to think that Miss T may be falling for me, I'll list some of the things that make me think this:
> 
> - She constantly messages me.
> 
> - She always wants to see me (weekends, and joining the gym in my home town instead of her home town).
> 
> - She cares about me (I have a bad eczema flare up on my hands at the moment, she always nags to me apply ointment, and has applied it for me completely unprompted too).
> 
> - She has told me what she wants from the future, from a relationship, and often speaks about her future as if it includes me.
> 
> - She was extremely happy when we were mistaken for a couple.
> 
> - She demonstrates her household value by sending me pictures of meals she has cooked.
> 
> - She demonstrates her sexual value by sending me suggestive pictures of her.
> 
> - When I do see her she always has to be near me or touching me.
> 
> - A look in her eyes when she looks at me that I can't quite describe, but I saw this same look from STBXW.
> 
> - Obvious sexual attraction/tension.
> 
> - She always wants to know more about me.
> 
> - Yesterday I was supposed to meet her at the gym but was delayed due to a road accident, she seemed very sad and anxious about whether I'd make it in time to see her or not.
> 
> - At the weekend she was scrolling through pictures on her phone, and I noticed she had pictures of me that I haven't sent her, so she must have downloaded them from my facebook profile.
> 
> - She's usually very careful with her words, but after she's had a few drinks, she talks about us entering a relationship in the future like it's a certainty.
> 
> - She's told me things like she thinks I'm sexy, intelligent, funny, a good man, and that she finds me very attractive.
> 
> It's clear that she's in to me, I'm just trying to determine if that's on more than a physical level.
> 
> Any thoughts?


JMO, however this type of behavior happening after only 2 weeks of knowing each other is a red flag in my book. Me thinks she has a fantasy life with you building inside her head. Enjoy, but proceed with caution.


----------



## Conrad

WWB,

Is she criticizing you for not returning her expressions of love?


----------



## just got it 55

Red Sonja said:


> JMO, however this type of behavior happening after only 2 weeks of knowing each other is a red flag in my book. Me thinks she has a fantasy life with you building inside her head. Enjoy, but *proceed with caution*.


Wooh 2 weeks I missed that

Red Red Flag get that in check

you still have time but yes

Proceed with caution

55


----------



## GotLifeBack

Red Sonja said:


> JMO, however this type of behavior happening after only 2 weeks of knowing each other is a red flag in my book. Me thinks she has a fantasy life with you building inside her head. Enjoy, but proceed with caution.





> Wooh 2 weeks I missed that
> 
> Red Red Flag get that in check
> 
> you still have time but yes
> 
> Proceed with caution
> 
> 55


I'm aware that things seem to be moving faster for her than they are for me, at least emotionally.

It's more like 3 weeks now, but yeah I see where you're coming from - caution is the Sesame Street word of the day. I'm particularly cautious because of my experience with STBXW - 3 weeks after meeting her she wanted to be exclusive with me.

We both had long-term relationships end last year, 6 years for me, 4 for her, which is another reason to be cautious. I won't be anyone's rebound. We've both agreed to not rush in to anything, and just see where things go.



> WWB,
> 
> Is she criticizing you for not returning her expressions of love?


No criticisms at all Conrad, no pressure from her to commit, or anything like that. She respects my space, and encourages me to do the things I love, even if they don't include her.

She's very independent, and so am I nowadays rather than codependent.


----------



## KnottedStomach

She is into you, in more than a physical way. 

Of all the things you wrote, the only red flag is this one:
- At the weekend she was scrolling through pictures on her phone, and I noticed she had pictures of me that I haven't sent her, so she must have downloaded them from my facebook profile.

I think that's a little weird.

The rest is typical of women who get very attached quickly. She sounds like she has gotten very attached and very quickly. Be careful. Maybe try not to hang out with her this weekend, to slow things down.


----------



## DT123

WantWifeBack said:


> There's nothing wrong with a married woman having male friends.


Wrong, there is nothing wrong in you two having mutual friends. When she starts having male friends that she goes on dates with(because that is what they are) with out you, it is very wrong. 

My wife started talking to a guy 8 months ago that she never dated in high school, but had a thing for back then. We have been out of school for 11 years and married for 9 of them. his attention to her lead to a full blown affair with another guy that was "Just a friend." Girls can think that guys are friends all day, but if a guy says he is a friend, he usually has one thing on his mind and it isn't shopping and gossip. 

Wake up. She is young, childish, and using you. I made a lot of the mistakes I see you making and it only prolonged the inevitable for me.... Divorce. Do what is right and what you deserve and get an annulment or divorce now. Do you not think you are worth more than how she is too you? I can assure you that there is someone out there that can appreciate the attributes you have to offer.


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> She is into you, in more than a physical way.
> 
> Of all the things you wrote, the only red flag is this one:
> - At the weekend she was scrolling through pictures on her phone, and I noticed she had pictures of me that I haven't sent her, so she must have downloaded them from my facebook profile.
> 
> I think that's a little weird.
> 
> The rest is typical of women who get very attached quickly. She sounds like she has gotten very attached and very quickly. Be careful. Maybe try not to hang out with her this weekend, to slow things down.


I agree, it is quite weird, but is it any weirder than her visiting my profile to look at them? It's also oddly flattering. Like when gay guys hit on me. Weird, yet flattering .

She does seem to have gotten attached very quickly, but I'm maintaining my own pace and not allowing anything to happen before I'm ready. I'm being extremely cautious with this.


----------



## GotLifeBack

DT123 said:


> Wrong, there is nothing wrong in you two having mutual friends. When she starts having male friends that she goes on dates with(because that is what they are) with out you, it is very wrong.
> 
> My wife started talking to a guy 8 months ago that she never dated in high school, but had a thing for back then. We have been out of school for 11 years and married for 9 of them. his attention to her lead to a full blown affair with another guy that was "Just a friend." Girls can think that guys are friends all day, but if a guy says he is a friend, he usually has one thing on his mind and it isn't shopping and gossip.
> 
> Wake up. She is young, childish, and using you. I made a lot of the mistakes I see you making and it only prolonged the inevitable for me.... Divorce. Do what is right and what you deserve and get an annulment or divorce now. Do you not think you are worth more than how she is too you? I can assure you that there is someone out there that can appreciate the attributes you have to offer.


Hey DT123,

Thanks for posting - A few months ago I would have given a rebuttal for everything you said. Now I agree entirely.

She's a part of my history now, and no part of my present or future. I'm looking forward to D-day .


----------



## KnottedStomach

WantWifeBack said:


> I agree, it is quite weird, but is it any weirder than her visiting my profile to look at them? It's also oddly flattering. Like when gay guys hit on me. Weird, yet flattering .
> 
> She does seem to have gotten attached very quickly, but I'm maintaining my own pace and not allowing anything to happen before I'm ready. I'm being extremely cautious with this.


I don't know. I think it's a little weird considering you just met/started dating and she as well as you don't quite know where this is going yet. 

I have pictures on my phone of my H that I got off facebook, but I usually pulled them from there for a reason, and obviously not after just 3 weeks of knowing someone. Seems a bit clingy to me, but to each his/her own.

And no, looking at someone's facebook page/pictures does not equal pulling pictures from their facebook page.

I think being cautious is the best approach.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

Ease your mind. The crew here at TAM are professional over-analyzers.

Enjoy yourself. Have fun. Meet and date many women. 

You are young. Keep working on you. Become financially set. Physically fit. Emotionally strong and stable. 

The last thing you need is to immediately jump into another LTR. Enjoy being single


----------



## PBear

All I can say is pay more attention to her actions than her words. She might say that she's taking things slow, but that doesn't mean she's not latching on. Her actions say she is. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helolover

ThreeStrikes said:


> Enjoy yourself. Have fun. Meet and date MANY MANY women.


ThreeStrikes, I added to your quote. You might agree...


----------



## GotLifeBack

PBear said:


> All I can say is pay more attention to her actions than her words. She might say that she's taking things slow, but that doesn't mean she's not latching on. Her actions say she is.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm the one setting the pace though - I won't do anything I'm not ready for .



> WWB,
> 
> Ease your mind. The crew here at TAM are professional over-analyzers.
> 
> Enjoy yourself. Have fun. Meet and date many women.
> 
> You are young. Keep working on you. Become financially set. Physically fit. Emotionally strong and stable.
> 
> The last thing you need is to immediately jump into another LTR. Enjoy being single


Being single is great - I have enjoyed it and still do. 

To be honest, if this relationship does go anywhere, it will most likely be a weekend visit thing due to work commitments for a long time to come anyway.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So another weekend passed, another weekend spend with Miss T. It was good, we had a lot of fun. We get on really well, but we are still taking things very slowly.


I haven't made any plans to see her again as yet though, aside from going to the gym. I kind of want to see if she brings up the subject of seeing me again, I'm sure that she will.


----------



## GotLifeBack

As predicted, Miss T has asked me to go to a party with her on Saturday night


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, I'm starting to have feelings for Miss T.

It seems different however to when I began to have feelings for STBXW.

With STBXW I loved every second we spent together, and used to mope when she wasn't around.

With Miss T, I love every second we spend together, but I'm also quite happy being alone.

Seems healthier to me .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Little update.

Myself and Miss T are now dating exclusively.

Still taking things extremely slow however, and not smothering one another.

I'm pretty happy with this arrangement as I have no interest in seeing anyone else at the moment, and of the women I have spent time with since STBXW, I have had no interest in at all either.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, it's been a while so I thought I'd share a quick update.

Went to that party with Miss T on Saturday. Her "friend" who is 40 and separated from her husband was practically throwing herself at me, even though she knows the situation between myself and Miss T. I remained completely disinterested. and Miss T found it to be quite amusing. No hint of possessiveness, no hint of jealously, no anger, with me, or her friend. She did speak to me about it briefly and she said she had no need to react because she trusts me to not take things anywhere. Her speaking to me about it however, tells me that she's noticed that other women are attracted to me.

Her "friend" ended up leaving the party with a 19 year old single guy, classy lady.

Had that have happened with STBXW, she would have been jealous, furious, and possibly left the party, and dragged me with her. What's more is that I would have been the one in trouble too.

It was a refreshing experience.

A couple weeks ago or so, myself and Miss T were in a club, and some guy was hitting on her, she acted much in the same way I did when her "friend" was hitting on me. My friend came up to me and said "Dude, that guy is all over your girl". I just replied "She's not my girl (She wasn't then), and it doesn't matter because she's still coming home with me afterwards".

Old WWB would have freaked out, got jealous, insecure and quite possibly left the club. Proud of myself. I know I can behave this way whilst being exclusive with Miss T too, should the same situation arise. I trust her, whenever we've been out and guys have tried to dance with her or flirt, she's just brushed them off and come to find me, even before we were officially "exclusive".

STBXW used to revel in the attention, and would openly flirt back and try to make me jealous. It worked too.

Now I no longer fear losing anyone, and I no longer fear being alone, it's so much easier to keep my emotions in check at all times. Even under the influence of alcohol .


----------



## KnottedStomach

Hey WWB. I am happy for you. Glad things are coming together.


----------



## Brokenman85

Glad you're in a good place right now. You've came along very well in this process. I'm hoping I can get to where you're at soon. I've been struggling.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Brokenman85 said:


> Glad you're in a good place right now. You've came along very well in this process. I'm hoping I can get to where you're at soon. I've been struggling.


Hey BM85,

All in good time, you'll get there fella .


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, yesterday I was scrolling through my whatsapp contacts, and saw STBXW had changed her picture. I couldn't resist looking.

For some reason seeing a new picture of her after not seeing her in months stirred me a little, I ended up thinking about her for 5 minutes.

A whole 5 minutes, whilst I would have rather not thought about her at all, I'm pleased that I managed to dismiss her from my mind so quickly still.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> For some reason seeing a new picture of her after not seeing her in months stirred me a little, I ended up thinking about her for 5 minutes.


Hardly surprising as she was an important part of your life for so long. Five minutes and then on with your life.

Keep taking good care of yourself mate.


----------



## LongWalk

The divorce formalities are not yet done, are they?


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> Hardly surprising as she was an important part of your life for so long. Five minutes and then on with your life.
> 
> Keep taking good care of yourself mate.


Yeah that's true. Ideally I don't want to spend any time thinking about her, even 5 minutes!

Still doing well over here, keeping active, still hitting the gym 5 times a week too. Feeling more and more Alpha each day. More confident. Not afraid to go after what I want, be it a goal, or a woman. Not afraid of failure, not afraid of the judgement of others. It's very freeing. 



> The divorce formalities are not yet done, are they?


Unfortunately not LW, otherwise I wouldn't even have her on whatsapp anyway .


----------



## oviid

Been thinking about your off an on over the past few months. I hope you are doing better, moving forward, feeling confident and most of all I hope the hurt has diminished greatly.


----------



## GotLifeBack

oviid said:


> Been thinking about your off an on over the past few months. I hope you are doing better, moving forward, feeling confident and most of all I hope the hurt has diminished greatly.


Hey oviid,

I'm doing a lot better thanks, the hurt has diminished greatly indeed. I no longer really feel sad. More indifferent to the whole situation, and grateful for the lessons I've learned.

I hope things are improving for you too.


----------



## Heartbroken84

This thread gives me hope that I can move on someday, right now it hurts so bad that I can barely breath  I'm glad to hear your doing better.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Hey HB84,

Things do get easier with time I assure you.

Things that will help (in no particular order):

Focusing on yourself.
A hobby (old or new, just something you love to occupy your time).
TAM.
IC.
Cutting contact with STBX, where possible.
Going out with friends.
Visiting family.
Joining a gym.

Once you hit the point where you promise yourself to make something better of you, and to do it for you regardless of what the future may hold, that's when I found things began to improve.

Keep your chin up, you'll get there, just like everyone else has. I know it's difficult to see in the early stages, but give it time and you'll look back and say "Wow, WWB was so right" .


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, it's been a while since I've posted, I don't have a great deal to share really.

Things are going well with Miss T, she seems rather smitten. She told me she has feelings for me, which was unexpectedly nice.

I've been scared that she'd have feelings for me, or my feelings for her would progress, because of my experiences with STBXW.

This morning I was thinking things through a little, and I realised that I have nothing to fear. Yeah I had bad experiences with STBXW, but Miss T isn't STBXW. She's a different person.

Hope you're all doing good 

WWB


----------



## LongWalk

Still curious about the divorce. Post when some action occurs. Have a good weekend


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Still curious about the divorce. Post when some action occurs. Have a good weekend


There won't be any divorce action occurring for at least another 3 months sadly . I'd sign the papers today if I could.

I have had no contact from STBXW since the start of January now either, which is pleasing.

Hopefully I won't hear anymore other than divorce proceedings.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Made a rather dire mistake whilst drunk at the weekend.

I told Miss T that I love her. She didn't reciprocate but it didn't seem to scare her off either. Her reaction was "Are you serious!??!?" (I think she smiled too, but I was drunk & it was dark) and then she kissed me.

No idea what I was thinking.

Note to self: Keep your mouth shut when drinking.


----------



## ReGroup

WantWifeBack said:


> Made a rather dire mistake whilst drunk at the weekend.
> 
> I told Miss T that I love her. She didn't reciprocate but it didn't seem to scare her off either. Her reaction was "Are you serious!??!?" (I think she smiled too, but I was drunk & it was dark) and then she kissed me.
> 
> No idea what I was thinking.
> 
> Note to self: Keep your mouth shut when drinking.


Lol.

Lets see how it plays out.

Never say, "I love you" first... Hahaha

Don't bring it up. If she does, don't apologize for it, but try to swat down the conversation with some humor.


----------



## Chaparral

WantWifeBack said:


> Made a rather dire mistake whilst drunk at the weekend.
> 
> I told Miss T that I love her. She didn't reciprocate but it didn't seem to scare her off either. Her reaction was "Are you serious!??!?" (I think she smiled too, but I was drunk & it was dark) and then she kissed me.
> 
> No idea what I was thinking.
> 
> Note to self: Keep your mouth shut when drinking.


You didn't read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER did you? a major faux pas. Get and read it now. Avoid the same situation you are in with your wife.


----------



## Honorbound

Chaparral said:


> You didn't read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER did you? a major faux pas. Get and read it now. Avoid the same situation you are in with your wife.


Hahahah! I loaned this book to him last week... Did you ever read it, WWB?

Anyway, what's done is done. Play a little distant and give her some space to think about it. Do not bring it up again. RG had the right advice. Also, don't feel shame that you did it... they were your true feelings. She was likely just too shocked and scared to reciprocate right away.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ReGroup said:


> Lol.
> 
> Lets see how it plays out.
> 
> Never say, "I love you" first... Hahaha
> 
> Don't bring it up. If she does, don't apologize for it, but try to swat down the conversation with some humor.


Nah I'm not going to bring it up. I backed off a bit last night, just small things like going to bed without texting her and saying goodnight. I woke up to two messages from her, one of which she sent at 5am this morning, so she was clearly awake and thinking about me.

What an error though, not going to kick myself for it though. It's done.



> You didn't read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER did you? a major faux pas. Get and read it now. Avoid the same situation you are in with your wife.


Haven't gotten round to it nope, but I will make the time to read it tonight! Will download the kindle app on my laptop.



> Hahahah! I loaned this book to him last week... Did you ever read it, WWB?
> 
> Anyway, what's done is done. Play a little distant and give her some space to think about it. Do not bring it up again. RG had the right advice. Also, don't feel shame that you did it... they were your true feelings. She was likely just too shocked and scared to reciprocate right away.


The fact that she didn't reciprocate didn't bother me too much to be honest, I'm more annoyed that I did something so stupid, and handed her all of the "power". I'll back off, be more of a challenge, create some attraction and see how it goes.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ok, I've bought a copy of MMSLP - I'll be reading it tonight.

Stepped back from everything a bit, saw where I was headed, back in to oneitis & AFCism. Scary stuff.

Gotta get that in check.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Started reading MMSLP - I must say it's very insightful and I have been struggling to put it down since I started.


----------



## LongWalk

What is happening with the divorce formalities?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> What is happening with the divorce formalities?


Nothing yet unfortunately .

I'm not sure if it's worth discussing with STBXW before we are legally able to file or not. Any thoughts?


----------



## LongWalk

Do not contact her. 

Hopefully she'll call you and you'll hesitate very naturally in surprise but without anything but self confident indifference.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Do not contact her.
> 
> Hopefully she'll call you and you'll hesitate very naturally in surprise but without anything but self confident indifference.


Oh I have no intention of contacting her.

I have no intention of hesitating either, just the self-confident indifference bit .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Just a quick message to say I hope Valentine's Day goes as well as possible for all of you guys. Thinking of you all today.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, today I set a boundary for the first time in any relationship ever. Early on in the relationship to be setting boundaries, but I don't want to establish patterns of poor behaviour. Not this time.

To quote Conrad - "I'm not okay with that."

It went about as well as can be expected. She's a little p*ssed at me I think, but she'll either calm down, accept the boundary and live to it, or she won't and I'll enforce the consequences.

The "Nice Guy" in me is screaming at me to back down and make her happy. But no, I'm sticking to my guns.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Feels good, doesn't it?


----------



## tom67

WantWifeBack said:


> So, today I set a boundary for the first time in any relationship ever. Early on in the relationship to be setting boundaries, but I don't want to establish patterns of poor behaviour. Not this time.
> 
> To quote Conrad - "I'm not okay with that."
> 
> It went about as well as can be expected. She's a little p*ssed at me I think, but she'll either calm down, accept the boundary and live to it, or she won't and I'll enforce the consequences.
> 
> The "Nice Guy" in me is screaming at me to back down and make her happy. But no, I'm sticking to my guns.


So in general what happened.


----------



## ReGroup

Tell us more!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Must be around Day #100


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Feels good, doesn't it?


Yeah it does feel good, at least once I got past the initial "Nice Guy" thoughts that were causing doubt about my actions.



> Tell us more!


Ok, well it's a bit of a long story. Firstly, I'll say she's a live wire. She has so much energy and a fun-loving spirit.

Before we became exclusive, on occasion she'd have a few drinks and make out with her female friends. She said that it was "for a laugh" (personally I see two reasons why any female would do this - bi/lesbian tendencies or to gain male attention, neither of those reasons justify the behaviour whilst in a relationship). As we weren't an item I took no notice and didn't mention it to her.

However, she told me that she kissed a "couple of bi girls" on Saturday when she was drunk that were hitting on her. I thought about it for 24 hours, and made my decision.

I told her that I'm not OK with it, it's disrespectful to me, and if she does it again I'll consider it as her being unfaithful and will be ending the relationship. As I turned a blind eye when we weren't exclusive, I feel that I should let it slide this time as I didn't make that clear from the onset. 

She retorted with excuses like "I've always done it, it's just a laugh". I asked her would she find it funny if I made out with girls. She then said that she's talking about the same sex, not the opposite. To me, the sex is irrelevant, acts of intimacy should be reserved for your SO, and your SO alone.

She also tried to say that I was being "controlling". I replied with something along the lines of "I think it's a fairly reasonable boundary that you don't make out with other people whilst in a relationship."

She went quiet on me for a few hours, wasn't holding conversation etc, but now she seems fine and has told me she respects my feelings and won't be doing it again. Time will tell. I'll be vigilant with this, if she wants to behave like a single person, then I'll make her one .



> Must be around Day #100


It's closer to around day 70 since I met her, day 30 since we've been an item.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> I'll be vigilant with this, if she wants to behave like a single person, then I'll make her one .


I like this line. It's at the crux of - You can't control other people, you can only control yourself.

I thought you played that perfectly. It would have been premature, perhaps, to bring it up sooner. And ultimately fatal to not address her behaviour at all. It's good we think in terms of boundaries. To me, it's a continuous process where you communicate 'course corrections' as your relationship progresses. Better than relying on the mind-reading act I've tried (and failed with) in the past.

Good for you. You've come a long, long way.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> I like this line. It's at the crux of - You can't control other people, you can only control yourself.
> 
> I thought you played that perfectly. It would have been premature, perhaps, to bring it up sooner. And ultimately fatal to not address her behaviour at all. It's good we think in terms of boundaries. To me, it's a continuous process where you communicate 'course corrections' as your relationship progresses. Better than relying on the mind-reading act I've tried (and failed with) in the past.
> 
> Good for you. You've come a long, long way.


Indeed, addressing it too early would have stopped the relationship before it even started. 

I realised that if I'd ignored it, resentment would build and would ultimately cause the relationship to fail. By addressing it, the onus is now on her to uphold that boundary. Of course I can't control her, and she may not uphold that boundary, but I've stated my position, and should she cross that boundary, it will be her failure, not mine.

The mind-reading act never works, nor does being a "Nice Guy" or a codependent. What does work however, is being a strong and confident man - "Alpha". To earn respect, you must be respectable. Stick to your guns, hold your values, don't take any sh*t and so on.

Thanks azteca, I feel like a completely different person to the man I was 6 months ago. I feel like a better, more authentic person.


----------



## helolover

mate, you know I think you should next her and move on to other plates. I think this will become an issue again. This next time, underground. She's already playing around but rationalizing it by using the drunk excuse. Red flag, dude. 

Anyways, my 2 pence for you. I'm in your corner.


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> mate, you know I think you should next her and move on to other plates. I think this will become an issue again. This next time, underground. She's already playing around but rationalizing it by using the drunk excuse. Red flag, dude.
> 
> Anyways, my 2 pence for you. I'm in your corner.


Yeah, I agree that it's definitely a red flag. 

The only reason I know about it is because she told me about it the following day. The manner in which she told me, was just in conversation and she gave the impression that she didn't realise it was wrong. I've now told her that I won't tolerate it.

It may well become an issue again, I'd say it's likely. It may not though, she has been warned, and if it does repeat, then I will be nexting her and moving on to other plates .

Edit: I'm going to add that I was looking for a relationship with someone, rather than a long string of sexual partners. I've always wanted it, but this time I know to make sure it's right and not stick around if it isn't.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I agree that it's definitely a red flag.
> 
> The only reason I know about it is because she told me about it the following day. The manner in which she told me, was just in conversation and she gave the impression that she didn't realise it was wrong. I've now told her that I won't tolerate it.
> 
> It may well become an issue again, I'd say it's likely. It may not though, she has been warned, and if it does repeat, then I will be nexting her and moving on to other plates .
> 
> Edit: I'm going to add that I was looking for a relationship with someone, rather than a long string of sexual partners. I've always wanted it, but this time I know to make sure it's right and not stick around if it isn't.


WWB,

Here's the key thing.

If you are truly not ok with the behavior and it continues, what do you do?

Make up your mind ahead of time, and make it stick.

My gut tells me she'll keep doing it. I would imagine it gets her plenty of attention from both sexes.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Edit: I'm going to add that I was looking for a relationship with someone, rather than a long string of sexual partners. I've always wanted it, but this time I know to make sure it's right and not stick around if it isn't.


No shame in your game, mate. Not suggesting your looking for a string of sexual partners (although nothing wrong with that). I've seen you come a long way and I hate to see you get hamstrung by another broken relationship while you're still healing from the last one. 

I'm not the proverbial crab in the barrel trying to pull you back in. I just wanted to check your back for you.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Here's the key thing.
> 
> If you are truly not ok with the behavior and it continues, what do you do?
> 
> Make up your mind ahead of time, and make it stick.
> 
> My gut tells me she'll keep doing it. I would imagine it gets her plenty of attention from both sexes.


I am truly not ok with it. My plan of action should it happen again is set and he is aware of the consequences. I've come too far to revert to Nice WWB, I've learned too much about myself and my faults to let them resurface, for anyone.

She may well keep doing it. My gut told me to set the boundary and observe. I'm 100% comfortable to walk away if I need to.



> No shame in your game, mate. Not suggesting your looking for a string of sexual partners (although nothing wrong with that). I've seen you come a long way and I hate to see you get hamstrung by another broken relationship while you're still healing from the last one.
> 
> I'm not the proverbial crab in the barrel trying to pull you back in. I just wanted to check your back for you.


Thanks helo, I appreciate it.

I'm not going to be hamstrung. I have strong feelings for this girl, sure. I'd like it to work out, but if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

I've proven to myself that women are attracted to me, and there are other women out there besides STBXW that I can connect with on an emotional level.

She's one woman, should it fail, there are multitudes more .

Edit: She's also really hot - yet not even a hint of Oneitis or thoughts of "This is the best I'll ever get" etc.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I guess, I feel like I'm free to have feelings for someone, without the codependence or Oneitis.

It's extremely liberating.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Interesting....

Was just browsing facebook and STBXW's facebook OM from the start of the thread came up as a suggested friend. 

Out of curiosity, I clicked his profile.

The first person on his friends list was STBXW's aunt, and then STBXWs friends (STBXW will be on there somewhere but as I've blocked her I can't see her). I also noted that all of her friends have "unfriended" me.

So, her aunt has clearly met him because she's a very private person (she's also completely mentally unstable and STBXW went to her for advice all the time, but that's a different story entirely). He friends have all unfriended me and added him too.

I know this still isn't 100% conclusive proof, but then again nothing short of catching her in the act would be. But it is just another nail in the coffin of my marriage.

Surprisingly, it felt good to find this out. 

Would explain why she is secretive of where she's been living, would also explain why when I ordered a new bank card on the account that used to be our joint account, the address they had on file was an address in fb OMs hometown. It explains a lot of things.


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> Yeah, I agree that it's definitely a red flag.
> 
> The only reason I know about it is because she told me about it the following day. The manner in which she told me, was just in conversation and she gave the impression that* she didn't realise it was wrong. *I've now told her that I won't tolerate it.


I realise I have nothing else to go on; no context, body language, general manner, etc. , but to me this is a red flag in itself. 

She's really hot and you have strong feelings for her, both of which will cloud your judgement and, if you're not entirely mindful of the situation, will have you making excuses for her. I say this only because we have duty to look out for each other -Proceed with caution ,WWB.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> I realise I have nothing else to go on; no context, body language, general manner, etc. , but to me this is a red flag in itself.
> 
> She's really hot and you have strong feelings for her, both of which will cloud your judgement and, if you're not entirely mindful of the situation, will have you making excuses for her. I say this only because we have duty to look out for each other -Proceed with caution ,WWB.


Believe me I am cautious! 

It certainly is a red flag, hence why I had that discussion with her and set the boundary in place. I think she didn't see anything wrong with it because to her it was "just having a laugh". Perhaps if she had enjoyed it or was doing it for attention, she would have seen it as doing something wrong.

Perhaps her past boyfriends were ok with it? I don't know.

I'm not in any way trying to excuse her behaviour here, because it was unacceptable. She now knows where I stand on such behaviour. It's her choice if she wishes to repeat it at such a high "cost".

I appreciate the concern fella . My judgement isn't clouded by her hotness or my feelings. As I said in a previous post, she's one woman, and last time I checked there were millions of others out there .

I was reading MMSLP this morning and it put in to words how I've been feeling lately - "Women are replaceable". I don't mean to say that she's an object or I don't care about her, but what I mean is should it fail, there will be other women who are more than qualified to step up to the job .

Also, the fact that I met Miss T at a house party that I was invited to by a woman who also wanted to get in to my pants tells me a lot hehe . Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy to cheat, or go for poly-amorous relationships, but it's nice to feel wanted and nice to know I have options. 

I've also learned that everything is temporary and not to expect otherwise. With STBXW I 100% believed our relationship would be permanent, big mistake. I'm not saying that me and Miss T don't have a shot at going long-term, but I am in no way expecting it and taking each day as it comes.


----------



## Conrad

WWB,

Since she seems a bit wild, you could have some fun with it.

When it happens again, (not if) and you find out - you could simply look at her and say, "I'm only ok with this behavior if it's a recruitment tool for us."

Then watch her jaw hit the floor.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Since she seems a bit wild, you could have some fun with it.
> 
> When it happens again, (not if) and you find out - you could simply look at her and say, "I'm only ok with this behavior if it's a recruitment tool for us."
> 
> Then watch her jaw hit the floor.


Haha, I actually considered this Conrad.

"I'm only ok with this if I can join in."

When I said to her "If you want to kiss other women, then I should be able to kiss other women", she wasn't happy. Double-standards.

I know most men would love this, or even a faint possibility of a threesome. Not myself though.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Coincidentally, just passed STBXW's whatsapp contact whilst scrolling, she's changed her profile picture to one of her and her fb OM. 

Hope she enjoys the downgrade!


----------



## ThreeStrikes

This is the guy she had lunch with...way back at the beginning of your thread?

Gee, who woulda thunk?


----------



## Conrad

ThreeStrikes said:


> This is the guy she had lunch with...way back at the beginning of your thread?
> 
> Gee, who woulda thunk?


I heard he was "just a friend"


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> This is the guy she had lunch with...way back at the beginning of your thread?
> 
> Gee, who woulda thunk?


Yup, the very one  they deserve each other.



> I heard he was "just a friend"


Weird, I heard that too!

Also during the separation when she kept getting sexual with me, kept sending me suggestive pictures, kept telling me things like "I've never experienced pleasure like I have with you" etc. She's already "cheated" on this guy with me.

Stupid, stupid girl .


----------



## GotLifeBack

Machiavelli said:


> Too young for marriage at 25, the onset of middle age? Hardly. Prior to 200 years ago, a person of such an age could be expected to have 10 kids after 10 years of marriage.
> 
> This is merely mother nature at work, redirecting attraction to males with higher testosterone levels and greater attractiveness. OP knows his "sex rank" and he seems to think this is the best woman he's ever going to get. Once he gets his testosterone levels sorted out, he'll be able to get it together and move on.


Quoting a post from wayyy back at the start.

Testosterone. Funny thing that is.

I actually now believe I was never depressed or anxious, I believe I had low testosterone, for several reasons.

1. When STBXW met me, I had an extremely physical job, was quite muscular, had an insanely high sex drive too. Heavy lifting = testosterone.

2. I got made redundant from said job, slipped in to inactivity and depression, my sex drive dropped, I didn't "feel" masculine.

(2.5) Switched to a very low fat, low calorie diet. The body needs fats and calories to create testosterone.

3. Got a new job in an office, this did nothing for my testosterone, but it did afford me a gym membership, whilst I was a member I began to improve, I felt more masculine, sex drive began to return etc. But I got made redundant again and had to cancel my membership. STBXW left for the first time

4. See 2.

5. Got a new job in an office, didn't rejoin the gym however. Stayed in the same state as 2.

6. Started taking anti-depressant medication, 3 weeks later STBXW left for the second (and final!) time. The AD meds did a little but I never felt they were fully helping. Couple months after she left I joined the gym, and since I have been feeling increasingly better, more masculine, facial hair is filling in nicely (I'm 26 and have very little, but it seems to be coming in fast now). My sex drive is through the roof, and without going in to too much detail, I have insane amounts of stamina, just the way I did back when STBXW met me. I have confidence, I have self respect, I have no anxieties, but I do feel a little more aggressive sometimes.

I think that the cause of my "depression" was merely low testosterone levels. Since I made this realisation, I've been researching ways to (legally and safely) maximise my testosterone levels, through diet and supplements, and workout routines. I feel the best I ever have, mentally, physically and emotionally.

I've actually been progressively lowering the dosage of my anti-depressant medication, and I am still feeling increasingly better. I figured if it's not that that's helping me, then why put up with the side effects? I should be off it completely within a few days. I can't wait.

Another reason I believe I had low testosterone levels is that I have lost an inch in height. I used to 6'2", I measured myself a few weeks back and I'm now 6'1" - This is a symptom of low testosterone, due to a decrease in bone density causing minor skeletal compression.


----------



## GotLifeBack

To add to the above post - I have also noticed as I've felt more and more like my testosterone levels are increasing, I've received increasingly more female attention. Even from women I've known for years, I can't explain it but they just seem to look at me differently.

I'm not sure if it's pheromones, or if women can "sense" these things on a subconscious or biological level, from what I've read in MMSLP - they can.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Married men have lower T than single men, in general.

You are awfully young to be worried about clinically low T. But I understand why you feel you need something to blame

Me? I think that you're a changed man. You exude confidence now. You aren't needy. You're in shape. You are becoming more "alpha".

But at your age, I don't think T had much to do with it


----------



## azteca1986

WantWifeBack said:


> To add to the above post - I have also noticed as I've felt more and more like my testosterone levels are increasing, I've received increasingly more female attention. Even from women I've known for years, I can't explain it but they just seem to look at me differently.


I'd suggest it's because you are a significantly different man to the one who started this thread. A confident man, who's comfortable with themselves will be communicating that fact through all kinds of non-verbal communication.

You may be right, but I think the above is more likely.


----------



## Machiavelli

Outstanding developments. Hormones are really powerful and really underrated, even by people who should know better (pill pushers). 

Check this, if you haven't already:

How I Doubled My Testosterone, Naturally


----------



## Machiavelli

azteca1986 said:


> I'd suggest it's because you are a significantly different man to the one who started this thread. A confident man, who's comfortable with themselves will be communicating that fact through all kinds of non-verbal communication.
> 
> You may be right, but I think the above is more likely.


It's all one ball of wax. Testosterone affects all the above. It's a personality transformer.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> Married men have lower T than single men, in general.
> 
> You are awfully young to be worried about clinically low T. But I understand why you feel you need something to blame
> 
> Me? I think that you're a changed man. You exude confidence now. You aren't needy. You're in shape. You are becoming more "alpha".
> 
> But at your age, I don't think T had much to do with it


I definitely feel more "alpha", and people notice.

Whilst I am young to be worrying about clinically low T, it's not unheard of. I've heard of 18-19 year old males with the T levels of an 80 year old man.

I do feel like I've changed and I'm a better man, more confident and so on, but I can't ignore the correlation between my bouts of "depression", low sex drive, low self-esteem, no motivation, no ambition & lack of that dominant "male" feeling, and a lack of physical activity & poor (in terms of T-production) diet.

I could be wrong. I haven't seen an endocrinologist or had any blood work done regarding this, but I can literally feel the higher levels of T. I'm not saying that it's all down to increased T, because that wouldn't make sense. I could have bucket loads of T, but if I didn't put the work in, where would I be?

Either way, I'm all good now, and I like it .



> I'd suggest it's because you are a significantly different man to the one who started this thread. A confident man, who's comfortable with themselves will be communicating that fact through all kinds of non-verbal communication.
> 
> You may be right, but I think the above is more likely.


You may also be right, or perhaps it's a combination of the two. I don't know. All I know is it's awesome .



> Outstanding developments. Hormones are really powerful and really underrated, even by people who should know better (pill pushers).
> 
> Check this, if you haven't already:
> 
> How I Doubled My Testosterone, Naturally


Hormones are incredibly powerful, I agree. They affect our mentality, our behaviour, and our physique.

I've read a few studies about the effects of dosing animals with different hormones and observing their behaviour, it's really quite interesting.

Everything is chemistry, love for example is on a purely chemical level a mixture of dopamine, oxytocin and vasopressin. 

As a semi-interesting side note to the above, if any of you have seen the movie "Equilibrium" - it's not entirely crazy to suggest that some sort of drug similar to the one in the movie could exist some day, if it doesn't already.



> It's all one ball of wax. Testosterone affects all the above. It's a personality transformer.


Again, I agree with this. Testosterone is what makes a man, a man, in the most literal sense.


----------



## Machiavelli

WantWifeBack said:


> I
> Again, I agree with this. Testosterone is what makes a man, a man, in the most literal sense.


Manipulating testosterone levels effects competitiveness, motivation, and aggression. Lower T and those things go away, raise it again and they return.

Bodybuilding forums are full of comments from men talking about women's change in behavior when men's T levels are raised. You constantly see comments speculating about "pheromones." I have experienced it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I seem to be experiencing it myself currently 

It's amazing haha.

I actually read a study - 50 women were given 50 t shirts worn by 50 men of varying T levels. The ones they said smelled the best were worn by the men with higher T levels.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Weirdly, after months of indifference, I'm feeling quite angry towards STBXW today. I wonder if it's because what I learned prior to the weekend? 

I really want to serve her with D papers, but I can't yet .


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> Weirdly, after months of indifference, I'm feeling quite angry towards STBXW today. I wonder if it's because what I learned prior to the weekend?
> 
> I really want to serve her with D papers, but I can't yet .


why can't you serve her now?


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> why can't you serve her now?


Haven't been married for a year. Damn law!


----------



## LongWalk

You learned what sort of woman she was pretty quickly. Fortune in misfortune.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> You learned what sort of woman she was pretty quickly. Fortune in misfortune.


I was thinking about this the other day LW - I'm actually happy that I learned it so soon, rather than wasting another 10 years as the shell of the man that I was, just waiting for the inevitable heartbreak.


----------



## Sandfly

Good to see you are continuing to do well.

You sound better each time. 

On the T-shirt theme:

My last two girlfriends had a habit of wanting to wear my T-shirts to sleep, but always the ones I'd been wearing.

So it turns out my T-shirts were getting them high? Nice. I was having trouble explaining why they keep hanging out with someone who is no good for them. Drugs!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Sandfly said:


> Good to see you are continuing to do well.
> 
> You sound better each time.
> 
> On the T-shirt theme:
> 
> My last two girlfriends had a habit of wanting to wear my T-shirts to sleep, but always the ones I'd been wearing.
> 
> So it turns out my T-shirts were getting them high? Nice. I was having trouble explaining why they keep hanging out with someone who is no good for them. Drugs!


Hey SF,

Hope you're keeping well mate!

I'm still doing good and on the up!

Sweaty T-shirts make the ladies crazy . 

I'm starting to think that everything is about testosterone for a man. People say confidence is key, but higher T = higher confidence. Obviously there are other places confidence can be drawn from, but you just don't appreciate them if you feel bad about yourself/depressed/self-conscious due to low T.

I actually saw my doctor yesterday and he's agreed that I should come off of my anti-depressant medication and continue my exercise regime (which I plan to anyway). I can't wait to get off these tablets!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Haven't posted in a while, I don't really have that many updates to share to be honest.

I saw my doctor and he's agreed that I can stop taking my AD meds, which I'm happy about, I'm down to a quarter dose now and in another 10 days I'll be off them completely.

I also had my last IC session yesterday - my counsellor and I both agreed that I no longer need the sessions. I have kept her number however in case I decide I need to go back.

Things with Miss T are going well, life is generally going well.


----------



## LongWalk

Just waiting for your eventual tbx breaks radio silence because she is curious. Even if she doesn't want you, she probably still desires your admiration. Keep working out hard to overcome the shift in brain chemistry.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Just waiting for your eventual tbx breaks radio silence because she is curious. Even if she doesn't want you, she probably still desires your admiration. Keep working out hard to overcome the shift in brain chemistry.


If she does she does, it will make no difference to me whatsoever. I have no desire for anything from her other than her signature on the D papers.

So far I have suffered no ill effects from reducing my dosage. Still working out hard, have also overhauled and balanced my diet in the last week and I am already feeling better for it. It's amazing how good you can feel when all of your nutritional needs are met.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, time for a quick update.

I was sorting through stuff in storage yesterday, found some old pics of me and STBXW.

They evoked absolutely zero emotional response, and still zero as I threw them out.

I also sold my wedding ring about 30 minutes ago, again, no emotional response at all.

Happy with that!


----------



## Chaparral

WantWifeBack said:


> Well, time for a quick update.
> 
> I was sorting through stuff in storage yesterday, found some old pics of me and STBXW.
> 
> They evoked absolutely zero emotional response, and still zero as I threw them out.
> 
> I also sold my wedding ring about 30 minutes ago, again, no emotional response at all.
> 
> Happy with that!


Lol, my first thought was to spend some of the money on a lap dance. Seriously, you should spend it on one nice thing for yourself you would not ordinarily spend on.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chaparral said:


> Lol, my first thought was to spend some of the money on a lap dance. Seriously, you should spend it on one nice thing for yourself you would not ordinarily spend on.


I'm currently saving for a new car, so it can go towards that


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, two days ago STBXW contacted me to let me know she'd be filing for divorce soon. I'm not sure why she needed to do this, but I think she wanted to see if I was still pining for her. Her opening message read along the lines of:

"Hi WWB, Just wanted to let you know that I'll be filing for divorce soon. *I know it won't be an easy read for you* but please sign and return the papers asap so we can both get on with our lives, thanks STBXW."

The bit in bold, she's either feeling out my emotional state, or insulting my intelligence.

I replied along the lines of "Sure, I just want it over now too."

We exchanged some conversation about divorce. No lawyers are being involved and she is going to pay the fees as she originally said she would.

I made sure the last thing I said to her was "No hard feelings any more, this really is the best thing for both of us " and she responded with "Oh, good to know, bye".

It was nice to be able to say that to her and genuinely mean it. I don't think she expected that at all however, and perhaps was a little shocked by it.


----------



## LongWalk

Hard for us, your TAM friends to know what the exchange sounded like, but regardless it is over and she is not the only woman in the world.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, time for a quick update.

Less than two weeks until I can legally divorce now, I'm fairly happy about that!

Aside from the messages exchanged with STBXW a couple of weeks or so ago, I received a small note in the mail with some documents from her saying "I found these whilst I was clearing out some things, I thought you might need them". That's the only contact I've had with STBXW since my last update.

Still in a relationship with Miss T, however things are a little strained at the moment and I'm unsure how much longer it'll last.

To cut a long story short, she got stressed out about her finances, and started acting cold and distant towards me because of it. I pulled her up on it and her reasoning was along the lines of:

"I didn't want to be short with you or be nasty to you because I'm stressed"

I pointed out that she was taking it out on me anyway by acting cold and distant, and she got angry rather than doing the mature thing and talking it over. I haven't spoken to her in two days, I did offer her something of an olive branch yesterday, without reverting to Nice Guy mode and taking the blame and pretending everything is fine. I'm yet to hear from her however.

Hope you're all doing well 

WWB


----------



## GotLifeBack

Ha, two updates in two days.

Yesterday was a very strange day. 

Firstly, my relationship with miss T ended. I was considering ending it myself, but she actually ended it with me. She said I had treated her unfairly by raising my issue with her. I know this isn't true, and that she's clearly not mature enough for the kind of relationship I want, so I feel this is for the best. She sent me a lengthy message explaining her reasons, but to paraphrase it it essentially said:

"You have too much self-respect to let me treat you badly and get away with it, that isn't going to work for me."

Also, in a bizarre turn of events, I was clearing out some storage I'd forgotten about, and found a box of very sentimental childhood things of STBXW's. I actually messaged her to arrange posting them, provided she bank transfer me the postage costs. I told her the box contained a lot of books, and she felt it was too heavy to post, and wants to collect it from me in person. It'll be the first time I've seen her in 6 months. I'm confident I can keep my calm though. I plan to hand her the box and then walk away, this isn't a social arrangement .


----------



## Piggy

Well good luck to you
My stbxh text me saying he will drop by to collect some stuff. I hidmyself in other room so as to not have any contact with him.


----------



## LongWalk

You can always leave the box outside the door.

If you meet her and can't maintain indifference, it will plague you.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

It would rock if you can have a lady friend there, with you, when ex comes to get her stuff.

Make sure she's a hottie.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Haha, I can maintain indifference, don't worry 

As for having a lady friend there, I'm not sure it's an option right now, I have a few women I talk to, but none of them will be about on the day. I set the terms for the collection, and she agreed to them. She's coming to my house to collect the box, I plan to meet her outside with it, pass it over and then that will be done.

After my recent relationship, I think I'll stay single for a while.


----------



## LongWalk

Was Miss T better in bed than you ex? Did being with her erase thoughts of your ex?


----------



## KnottedStomach

Sorry to hear about you and Ms T. 

About the package, I would avoid your STBXW. Seeing as how you and Ms T have just broken up, it might not work seeing your STBXW too soon.


----------



## azteca1986

You sound really good, mate. It was good of you not to just chuck the box out. I like your plan. No games. No drama. Just hand it over and get on with your day.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Was Miss T better in bed than you ex? Did being with her erase thoughts of your ex?


LW - Unfortunately Miss T wasn't, but my thoughts of being with STBXW were erased regardless!



> Sorry to hear about you and Ms T.
> 
> About the package, I would avoid your STBXW. Seeing as how you and Ms T have just broken up, it might not work seeing your STBXW too soon.


Hey KS, how are you?

I handled the break up with Miss T extremely well considering. She actually started messaging me yesterday after a few days of NC. I responded and was polite, but I have no desire to resume my relationship with her.



> You sound really good, mate. It was good of you not to just chuck the box out. I like your plan. No games. No drama. Just hand it over and get on with your day.


Hey azteca, hope you're well mate.

I saw STBXW yesterday, the look on her face was priceless. She looked absolutely gutted when she saw me.

I literally took the box outside, placed it in her car, we exchanged a few sentences such as "hey, how are you?" etc. General chat.

We did exchange a few messages throughout the day. Two that played on my mind a little but I dismissed them.

One was "I'm really happy for you WWB, you seem so much more upbeat and like the man you used to be and that's really good to know ".

The other was a few hours after she saw me, she send me a message saying:

"Thanks for the box, you looked really good. Bye for now WWB, Take care!"

I responded in kind.

For some reason I have a feeling I'll be hearing from her again soon, perhaps it's the "Bye *for now*". We have no outstanding business aside from the divorce proceedings and they won't be carried out in person.


----------



## Chaparral

She can't understand how you are doing so well with out her. Oh well, she is where the grass is greener now. Of course she has that cheating sl+t thing under her belt. She is with a guy that doesn't mind going after married women. But other than those things...............


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chaparral said:


> She can't understand how you are doing so well with out her. Oh well, she is where the grass is greener now. Of course she has that cheating sl+t thing under her belt. She is with a guy that doesn't mind going after married women. But other than those things...............


Yeah I think you're right.

She used to have this way of looking at me, years ago, and I instantly knew she wanted me when she looked at me that way. It wasn't a conscious thing on her part. It just happened.

Anyway, she looked at me that way yesterday, and it made me feel pretty good 

Despite breaking up with Miss T, she did give me a lot of confidence boosts.

Not sure whether I should post this here or not, but she told me I'm the best she's ever had sexually, and she isn't the first woman to tell me that :smthumbup:.


----------



## KnottedStomach

Well WWB, I can't say I am surprised by your STBXW's response. Just like I would not be surprised if she wants to work things out in the next few weeks or starts messaging you more. The same with Miss T.

You sound like you are doing great, so up and on.

I am doing okay. Life has been much better and calmer after I moved out of the house. That's all I will say, don't want to hijack your thread.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

You should be the poster-child of someone who came here, took the advice, and ran with it.

Good to hear you are doing well:smthumbup:


----------



## GotLifeBack

KnottedStomach said:


> Well WWB, I can't say I am surprised by your STBXW's response. Just like I would not be surprised if she wants to work things out in the next few weeks or starts messaging you more. The same with Miss T.
> 
> You sound like you are doing great, so up and on.
> 
> I am doing okay. Life has been much better and calmer after I moved out of the house. That's all I will say, don't want to hijack your thread.


Hey KS, glad to hear things are better for you!

Oddly, STBXW has messaged me again as you predicted. She said it was good talking the other day, but a little weird. I ran with it curious to see where it would lead. 

She gave me an apology, said she had realised the way she treated me was completely wrong and she's been wanting to apologise for a while. She said it's been "eating her away inside".

She also dropped the line "I wish things weren't like this between us you know".

She the proceeded to tell me that she hasn't had any sexual experiences nearly as good as with me. I guess that grass isn't greener after all .

Then she said "Sorry to drag up the past, there's just so much I want to say to you". She had told me she was out with friends, but she was messaging me every 30 seconds it seemed, so I just replied saying. "Don't be anti-social, say it when you're not busy, goodnight STBXW".



> WWB,
> 
> You should be the poster-child of someone who came here, took the advice, and ran with it.
> 
> Good to hear you are doing well


I'm doing great thanks TS, hope all is well with you too!

50k is a great place to be. Also I've learned how to find that healthy balance of selfishness required to do what's best for myself. :smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

She is rewriting her total rejection of you.

Part of her might want to have you back because she hates relinquishing what she once possessed. But aren't you worried that the small talk with for the sake of the validation you gain is going to set you back?

When she said she was sorry did you reply, confirming that you were wounded. Far better to leave her with the impression that she nobody anymore.

Since she talked about sex she is more or less implying that she would hook up with you for old times sake, don't you think?

And if you went for it you'd find her fangs in you to take a drink a few more times before she's end it anyway.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> She is rewriting her total rejection of you.
> 
> Part of her might want to have you back because she hates relinquishing what she once possessed. But aren't you worried that the small talk with for the sake of the validation you gain is going to set you back?
> 
> When she said she was sorry did you reply, confirming that you were wounded. Far better to leave her with the impression that she nobody anymore.
> 
> Since she talked about sex she is more or less implying that she would hook up with you for old times sake, don't you think?
> 
> And if you went for it you'd find her fangs in you to take a drink a few more times before she's end it anyway.


I know exactly what she's doing hehe 

When she apologised, I shrugged it off and said that it really doesn't bother me any more.

She may be wanting to hook up for old times sake, but it isn't going to happen! No matter how good the sex was. That is a dangerous road I don't want to go down. If we were to hook up, I'd be hit with a flood of old feelings, feelings that would leave me vulnerable to being destroyed again.

I'm not going to lie to you guys though, I will always have a place in my heart for STBXW.


----------



## LongWalk

Keep her at a distance. NC.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Yeah definitely! I've come too far to let her back in now.


----------



## LongWalk

Read Sandfly's post on the what is feminism thread. There he describes the restlessness of female desire. Very accurate.


----------



## LongWalk

Out of pride she will probably not approach you anymore.


----------



## Chaparral

Tell your girlfriends have taught you there is more to life than great sex. Like loyalty and courage.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you ever find out anything about her other man?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Out of pride she will probably not approach you anymore.


She is still messaging me. I'm not giving her anything.

Last night she asked "How do you feel about he divorce?" I responded saying that I felt okay about it.

I keep letting the conversations drop and then she will message me changing the subject, or asking what my plans for the day are. I keep it brief.

Good things have come of contact with STBXW, we've talked a lot about where we went wrong, what happened between us and so on. It's almost like closure I guess.



> Tell your girlfriends have taught you there is more to life than great sex. Like loyalty and courage.


This would be somewhat of a lie unforunately 



> Did you ever find out anything about her other man?


I know that the two of them are in a relationship now, but she has implied that when she left she rebounded around with a few guys before settling in to a relationship.


----------



## LongWalk

So why is getting into this discourse now that she chose one out the post separation guys?

If everyone of these exchanges leaves your stronger, then the discourse is not hurting you. Don't you think that in some way she trying to confirm that she made the right decision?

By going into this relationship discussion and talking about your past sex life, she is cheating on her SO. For no guy dating a woman in midst of divorce or newly divorced would want to hear that she was in some conversation with the ex about sex.

How did you ex dress when she picked up the books? If she casually but well and in something that showed off her figure, that would suggest that she was trying to make some impression on you.


----------



## Chaparral

WantWifeBack said:


> She is still messaging me. I'm not giving her anything.
> 
> Last night she asked "How do you feel about he divorce?" I responded saying that I felt okay about it.
> 
> I keep letting the conversations drop and then she will message me changing the subject, or asking what my plans for the day are. I keep it brief.
> 
> Good things have come of contact with STBXW, we've talked a lot about where we went wrong, what happened between us and so on. It's almost like closure I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> This would be somewhat of a lie unforunately you missed the point
> 
> 
> 
> I know that the two of them are in a relationship now, but she has implied that when she left she rebounded around with a few guys before settling in to a relationship.


well that's a bare faced lie, hmmm ,wonder why


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> So why is getting into this discourse now that she chose one out the post separation guys?
> 
> If everyone of these exchanges leaves your stronger, then the discourse is not hurting you. Don't you think that in some way she trying to confirm that she made the right decision?
> 
> By going into this relationship discussion and talking about your past sex life, she is cheating on her SO. For no guy dating a woman in midst of divorce or newly divorced would want to hear that she was in some conversation with the ex about sex.
> 
> How did you ex dress when she picked up the books? If she casually but well and in something that showed off her figure, that would suggest that she was trying to make some impression on you.


She dressed in her work attire as she came straight from work, she had clearly spent a lot of time on her make-up though.

These discourses do leave me stronger, but every now and then she says things that play on my mind a little, but I just ignore them and go about my day. 

She may be trying to confirm that she made the right decision, I don't know. I know she made the wrong decision myself, and perhaps she is feeling that too, and trying to convince herself otherwise.

Whatever her motives, or reasons, they are of little interest to me anyway.


----------



## Pictureless

WWB,

Congratulations on your progress and success. Your XW's texts are signals that she has doubts and possibly regrets about her choices. 

Yours is one of the few instances where the X lets the other one know that the grass wasn't necessarily greener.

Enjoy your "victory" but evaluate it for what it is. The damage is done and there's no going back. BTW she's still using you for her own validation. 

You know you will be completely over her when you feel no need to reply to these types of messages.


----------



## LongWalk

The strength of you affection for you ex was impressive, probably even to her. She will want you to worship her image at the shrine of your dead marriage for eternity. She likes it. 

Indifference will be harder for her to cope with than hatred would. 

Also, your history drives home the truth. The 180 is essential. If you had chased her, she never would have wanted to chat by the car. She would have sent a friend to get the books instead of coming in person. She came by herself.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

WantWifeBack said:


> She may be trying to confirm that she made the right decision, I don't know. I know she made the wrong decision myself, and perhaps she is feeling that too, and trying to convince herself otherwise.


Pride before the fall.

During my W's A, I told her that it wouldn't last 6 months but all that did was try to prove me wrong. She did not want to admit she was making a mistake so stuck with it and tried to make it work with the OM. She failed of course.

Nobody likes to admit they are wrong and in these cases will put on a front and make it look like they are happier than they are. Its just a matter of time before her relationship with the OM implodes.


----------



## woosaa

Do not entertain her messages. She is trying to keep tabs on you. It is great to maintain your indifference but in the same sense you have no reason to talk to her. Stay with not responding at all unless absolutely necessary which at this point there should be no reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

Pictureless said:


> WWB,
> 
> Congratulations on your progress and success. Your XW's texts are signals that she has doubts and possibly regrets about her choices.
> 
> Yours is one of the few instances where the X lets the other one know that the grass wasn't necessarily greener.
> 
> Enjoy your "victory" but evaluate it for what it is. The damage is done and there's no going back. BTW she's still using you for her own validation.
> 
> You know you will be completely over her when you feel no need to reply to these types of messages.


I know there's no going back ,

Even if there were, my family would never accept her after the way she acted.

It seems strange that I so badly wanted this, and now it's happening, I feel nothing aside from a mild curiosity and a nostalgia for something that died a long time ago.



> Also, your history drives home the truth. The 180 is essential. If you had chased her, she never would have wanted to chat by the car. She would have sent a friend to get the books instead of coming in person. She came by herself.


Spot on as always LW .



> Nobody likes to admit they are wrong and in these cases will put on a front and make it look like they are happier than they are. Its just a matter of time before her relationship with the OM implodes.


This is true, she keeps saying how she's happier now one minute, then the next will reminisce about old times, telling me how certain dates we went on will always be her favourite, and then there's the whole sex thing too.


----------



## GotLifeBack

So I have re-established NC with STBXW.

Last night she told me she missed me and talking to me was confusing her feelings. I told her to stop talking to me and that there could be no happy outcome from this going any further.

This morning she messaged me again saying:

"WWB, I know we said goodbye last night, but can we please talk for one more day? Then I promise that will be it."

I responded with "We both know that's a bad idea, sorry."

She replied with "This f*cking sucks :-( I'm sorry, ignore me, I'm just having a bad day."

I responded with "Take care."

And that was that.

Was hoping last night would be the last I heard from her, but it wasn't. I'm now hoping today will be the last I heard from her. She'll be filing for D in less than a week, as this coming Saturday will mark our first and last wedding anniversary.

It has taken me an insane amount of strength to reject what could be the beginnings of something I wanted so desperately for so long, but I just don't see that I could ever trust her again. I don't want to live with that constant fear.


----------



## RandomDude

Wow, it's been a while... I thought the ex-dramas were done like... ages ago


----------



## GotLifeBack

Haha, yeah me too RD. Seems since she saw me to collect her stuff it's all come back around again. I'm in a much better position to deal with it now though


----------



## RandomDude

It's interesting, I see my ex every weekend but there's no longer any dramas - we've both moved on, acknowledging the relationship is dead.


----------



## GotLifeBack

RandomDude said:


> It's interesting, I see my ex every weekend but there's no longer any dramas - we've both moved on, acknowledging the relationship is dead.


Whilst I have acknowledged that and from a logical perspective I know, and am doing what must be done. I can honestly say I have never been so tempted in my life.


----------



## happy as a clam

Stay the course, WWB...!!


----------



## GotLifeBack

I know. I know I should.

It has raised a lot of questions in my mind though.

People say I'll find someone, people say I'll be happy. What if that someone is STBXW, what if she's truly changed.

What if our separation was the right choice, but we've both learned a lot of lessons and it's no longer the right choice.

She told me she spent months playing out scenarios in her head that could lead to us being together again, what if this is the start of that scenario?

I know I loved her like I've never loved anyone else.

Then again, what if she hasn't changed, what if divorce is the right choice. What if this isn't the start of that scenario?

Feeling rather confused today.


----------



## Sammy64

If you guys are not devorced yet, why not spend a little time with her and see what has changed, dont have to sleep with her just hang out. I have read your thread from day one, i also understand how you feel about her, and what she has said. There is no reasion IMO that if both of you feel maybe it might be a mistake then why not. You will know what the right direction is after a few hours or a day or two. I hate leaveing things behind and always 2nd guessing myself if i have done the right thing or not.


----------



## woosaa

Your stbxw held nc and "strong" for so long that once she saw you and that you're moving on she lost it. She is just seeking validation from you and to reel you back in. Think about all her actions, even now all those messages are just words. There is zero action. Once you remain nc and truly show her you are done then you will see if she really wants you or wants you as an option. Let her go, stay busy, delete her messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Want wife back became didn't want her back and now maybe he wants her back. There is no rule that says you cannot meet her for wild monkey sex and reconcile.

Your family does not have to spend their lives with her. If you reconciled, you might ask her if she would apologize to them for hurting you.

You could have pizza or coffee and listen to her.

p.s. does she have strawberry blond hair and freckles and bake tuna casserole?

Many intangibles. But she is a cheater.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## KnottedStomach

WWB - I have to go here with woosaa, listen to her actions not her words. Just because someone says something doesn't mean they are any different. If she truly wants to work things out, she should act upon that, not just say things.


----------



## Pictureless

WWB,

Let her go. For your sake. She doesn't know what she wants. You will get hurt again. Hers is an immature love. Search your soul. You will do better than her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

You guys are all right in one way or another.

I am not reading anything in to her words, they are exactly that.

I haven't seen any actions yet, and I won't be making any decisions or even begin to make decisions until I do.

I know better than that.


----------



## helolover

Rollo's cardinal rule:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

Your overall indifference has become mighty sexy to her. You're a man with options - mighty sexy to her. You're a man who other women want - mighty sexy to her.

Let her want you and regret what she did. Move forward WWB.

HL


----------



## happy as a clam

WWB,

I've read your whole thread. I get it... you are an accomplished GIGOLO in bed!!

I agree with others... if the separation has put a glimmer in your mind of reconnecting, then HAVE AT IT!!

On the other hand, if you are as good in bed (and I believe you are) as SHE and OTHERS (latest GF) have said you are, leave her SCREAMING for more. I know exactly what this is... my SO is the BEST lover I've ever known. If this r'ship ever doesn't work out I will just pack it in... there could NEVER be another like him. Sound dramatic? It isn't. I just KNOW.

No one will fault you if you want to give this another shot. Just be aware of her Mono diagnosis... also, what about STD's? Whatever you do, wear a condom so YOU won't contract anything and she won't get preggers. And no French kissing (the whole Mono thing)... kiss her neck, her shoulders, but NOT her mouth.

I say b*ng away to kingdom come... then re-assess.


----------



## GusPolinski

She's currently in a relationship w/ OM, right (thought I read that a few pages back)? If so (IMO), any thoughts of reconciliation are worth little more than the neural energy spent on them.

500!


----------



## GusPolinski

And, on an unrelated (albeit humorous) note...

happy, every time I see your avatar next to one of your posts, I think that I'm reading a post by "LuvMyJava". So you can imagine my confusion on reading things like this...



happy as a clam said:


> I know exactly what this is... my SO is the BEST lover I've ever known. If this r'ship ever doesn't work out I will just pack it in... there could NEVER be another like *him*.


LOL


----------



## happy as a clam

Gus...

You ALWAYS make me smile... 99.9% I agree with your posts and opinions, but I can ASSURE you, I am NOT "Luvmyjava"...

:rofl: :lol:


----------



## evolver

No advice. I think this is one of those decisions only you can make. I just want to say I totally relate to how her latest move is making you feel.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chaparral

I think you should ask her out to dinner and see what happens. Better than living with doubt. It would however, be a date with a cheater.


----------



## GotLifeBack

I am aware of all the risks surrounding all of this.

The way I see it, I know I'm all good without STBXW. I've never been surer of it. So in a way, I guess it can't hurt to explore this. 90% certain it will lead nowhere anyway, as knowing STBXW, there will be too much work involved for her. She always was a lazy mare .

I'm not pinning any hopes on this, and am still getting out, meeting women, talking to women on a daily basis too.

I know what I want from life, a good woman, good sex, and eventually a family.

Who is that woman?

I have no idea, but I've always had an open mind. As long as I keep my emotions and head in check, which I am successfully at the moment, that open mind can't hurt me.


----------



## LongWalk

WWB,

I am probably not alone among the followers of your thread in expecting some drama with your ex. Her disappearance from your life was very sudden. But was this because we have a desire for closure to your story? By the very same token does she has a desire for closure to the mystery she herself created. Anybody who had a child and walked out the door might be curious to see how the child turned out. A marriage without children is the promise of something. So, she thought and thought and then turned her head to look back.

The one thing you don't want to do is chase a lazy mare. Getting the horses in the field is always tricky. A bunch of girls needing all those hundreds of kilos of skittish muscle to start the riding lesson sometimes must be close to crying when it doesn't go well.

Whatever game she is now playing you'll be might peeved at yourself if she runs off and expects you to jog after her.

Are you going to actively email her? That would already send major signal to her. The book pick up was a legit reason to contact her.

Now when you are active your heart will to some degree be vulnerable. One alternative is to call her out the next time she texts you. Tell her that you need to see her in person. 

If it's too easy to get you back, it'll be easy for her to walk away again. Don't you think?


----------



## angstire

LongWalk said:


> If it's too easy to get you back, it'll be easy for her to walk away again. Don't you think?


I think so.


----------



## LongWalk

Who knows maybe the mare is tired and confused after running wild and just wants to be in the old pasture. WWB is a much tougher guy now. He will sort it out.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> WWB,
> 
> I am probably not alone among the followers of your thread in expecting some drama with your ex. Her disappearance from your life was very sudden. But was this because we have a desire for closure to your story? By the very same token does she has a desire for closure to the mystery she herself created. Anybody who had a child and walked out the door might be curious to see how the child turned out. A marriage without children is the promise of something. So, she thought and thought and then turned her head to look back.
> 
> The one thing you don't want to do is chase a lazy mare. Getting the horses in the field is always tricky. A bunch of girls needing all those hundreds of kilos of skittish muscle to start the riding lesson sometimes must be close to crying when it doesn't go well.
> 
> Whatever game she is now playing you'll be might peeved at yourself if she runs off and expects you to jog after her.
> 
> Are you going to actively email her? That would already send major signal to her. The book pick up was a legit reason to contact her.
> 
> Now when you are active your heart will to some degree be vulnerable. One alternative is to call her out the next time she texts you. Tell her that you need to see her in person.
> 
> If it's too easy to get you back, it'll be easy for her to walk away again. Don't you think?


She's the one doing the chasing here. She always contacts me, and never do I contact her first. During our conversations I will give a short reply that would shut down the conversation, so she changes the subject or follows up with a question to keep the conversation rolling.

If she's going to play this game, it's on my terms and no other way, and I most definitely will not make it easy for her .



> Who knows maybe the mare is tired and confused after running wild and just wants to be in the old pasture. WWB is a much tougher guy now. He will sort it out.


I feel a lot stronger, I know I can handle this. I have nothing to lose here by keeping an open mind, I've already lost her. However, I am also keeping an open mind about other women too .


----------



## GotLifeBack

As it stands, she's unsure as to whether I even want contact with her. And I am also unsure.

She keeps asking me like an anxious child "Have you decided yet???"

I keep saying no I haven't. Because I haven't.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, I've made my decision.

I still don't know what I want, all I do know is it's not STBXW.

My friends here at TAM, my friends in real life, and my family have all been trying to remind me of what she put me through, twice.

I guess I have got a little carried away with emotions over the last week. 

Tonight I checked her facebook, saw pictures of her and the OM all over the place, all loved up.

Was the moment of clarity I needed.

She didn't take the news well.

No more cake for her.


----------



## Chaparral

What did you tell her? What was her response?


----------



## GotLifeBack

I told her to put the past in the past and move forwards with her life. That our little interactions can bring no happiness.

Her response was:

"Fair enough. Bye."

These were the kind of responses I used to get from her when I had made her mad whilst we were together. To the onlooker it may seem like nothing, but knowing her as I do, I could tell she was pretty angry.

I realised that she is still with OM, and therefore is engaging in an emotional affair with me. She hasn't changed one bit, and likely never will.


----------



## Chuck71

is she the type who defines herself solely by the fact she has a man?

until she proves (if ever) with compassion why and what she did

could you honestly trust her? if you can't trust, you can't love.

you are young, love always finds you at that age...you're worth more

she can't even give up other guys enough to attempt....attempt for 

the two of you to make an inch of any headway.

they all think the grass is greener, until they learn it grows on a 

septic tank. I left 15 years...and after the last seven, I forgot

what a relationship was all about. I've been learning with new gal

since Jan '13......you will too....bet the farm


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> is she the type who defines herself solely by the fact she has a man?
> 
> until she proves (if ever) with compassion why and what she did
> 
> could you honestly trust her? if you can't trust, you can't love.
> 
> you are young, love always finds you at that age...you're worth more
> 
> she can't even give up other guys enough to attempt....attempt for
> 
> the two of you to make an inch of any headway.
> 
> they all think the grass is greener, until they learn it grows on a
> 
> septic tank. I left 15 years...and after the last seven, I forgot
> 
> what a relationship was all about. I've been learning with new gal
> 
> since Jan '13......you will too....bet the farm


She has the need to feel wanted, she always has done. I don't think she minds where she gets that feeling from, or who she hurts to get it.

As soon as I had the moment of clarity I needed, I knew what to do. I hesitated for a couple of minutes, but I made the right choice.

She had an EA years ago, and left me for OM, a few months later, she came back. She had another EA and left for a different OM, and now she has been having an EA with me.

It's just the same old pattern, and I'm on the other end.

I kept telling myself that she's my wife, it's different. But it really is no different. Having experienced the pain of EAs, the last thing that I ever want to do is involve myself in one.

She will always think the grass is greener, no matter what.


----------



## Chuck71

I noticed your nickname thread, if you haven't labeled her yet

how about Boomerang? I would say Trampoline but 

LostLove77's X already garnished that. She bounces from guy to

guy; whereas yours just goes back and forth.


----------



## Pictureless

WantWifeBack said:


> I told her to put the past in the past and move forwards with her life. That our little interactions can bring no happiness.
> 
> Her response was:
> 
> "Fair enough. Bye."


There's your answer. After all this time and through all the ordeals you would think she might have learned something by now. If she did her reply would have been different, don't you think?

Something like....can we talk about this more? Are you sure? 

Nope, she sounds prideful and entitled. You know her history and patterns. She's unstable and unable to stay committed. Sh doesn't know what she wants.

Try to find compassion for her behaviors. It makes letting go easier. It must suck to be her; never knowing happiness and throwing it away with your own hands. Some day she might grow up.


----------



## GusPolinski

Contact OM and let him know that she was fishing.


----------



## LongWalk

Chuck71 said:


> I noticed your nickname thread, if you haven't labeled her yet
> 
> how about Boomerang? I would say Trampoline but
> 
> LostLove77's X already garnished that. She bounces from guy to
> 
> guy; whereas yours just goes back and forth.


Boomerang is a good one. And there is a reason for it. WWB's ex has invested herself in him and she hates to see the emotional capital outlay (measured in MGPU (my gold pvssy units plus time) thrown away. Cake eaters don't throw it away. They put it in the fridge.

So, WWB what happens with the D formalities? Is there anything more than a document mailed from the court? There is no reason to meet her ever again, is there?

I think men and women both feel ambivalent about sexual pleasure as the measure of importance in a relationship. We can want the perfect person: hot in bed, good job, kind when you're down, kicks your butt when you need it, independent when you're busy, needs you when you need to be needed, etc.

WWB's wife will always flit back and forth over the points of dissatisfaction.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

WWB,

You had a temporary flirtation with the weeds of codependence.

Nice to see you realize that, and get back to 50K.

Onward!


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Boomerang is a good one. And there is a reason for it. WWB's ex has invested herself in him and she hates to see the emotional capital outlay (measured in MGPU (my gold pvssy units plus time) thrown away. Cake eaters don't throw it away. They put it in the fridge.
> 
> So, WWB what happens with the D formalities? Is there anything more than a document mailed from the court? There is no reason to meet her ever again, is there?
> 
> I think men and women both feel ambivalent about sexual pleasure as the measure of importance in a relationship. We can want the perfect person: hot in bed, good job, kind when you're down, kicks your butt when you need it, independent when you're busy, needs you when you need to be needed, etc.
> 
> WWB's wife will always flit back and forth over the points of dissatisfaction.


dated those types, luckily only once. they're one of the type pop

warned me about. Boomerang (I will stop using it WWB if it 

bothers you) could be dating two guys on GBs 2014 World Cup 

team and would, as you say, be dissatisfied. I'm sure Conrad 

asked about her childhood, so I won't ask to rehash. But 

whatever is wrong with her, it runs deep. Nothing you can do

to fix it, it's her problem and she has to solve it. Be glad you

didn't spend 15 years with her or have four kids.


----------



## GotLifeBack

> Contact OM and let him know that she was fishing.


I'm not going to sabotage her relationship with OM, she's perfectly capable of doing that herself .



LongWalk said:


> Boomerang is a good one. And there is a reason for it. WWB's ex has invested herself in him and she hates to see the emotional capital outlay (measured in MGPU (my gold pvssy units plus time) thrown away. Cake eaters don't throw it away. They put it in the fridge.
> 
> So, WWB what happens with the D formalities? Is there anything more than a document mailed from the court? There is no reason to meet her ever again, is there?
> 
> I think men and women both feel ambivalent about sexual pleasure as the measure of importance in a relationship. We can want the perfect person: hot in bed, good job, kind when you're down, kicks your butt when you need it, independent when you're busy, needs you when you need to be needed, etc.
> 
> WWB's wife will always flit back and forth over the points of dissatisfaction.


The divorce formalities are as simple as dropping a document in the mail, and then waiting. Two days away from our first anniversary which falls on a Saturday, she will be filing on the following Monday, so in 4 days time. At least that's what she has said. I am curious to see if she has any more emotional outbursts or attempts to reel me in before then.

You're right LW, she will never settle and be happy. During our conversations she said to me, in these words "I used to always think the grass was greener, but now I know different". If anything her behaviour over the past week proves that she may have that information, but hasn't taken the lesson to heart.



> WWB,
> 
> You had a temporary flirtation with the weeds of codependence.
> 
> Nice to see you realize that, and get back to 50K.
> 
> Onward!


It was definitely dangerous territory - and sometimes I do find danger quite alluring, I think it's the adrenaline rush. But the danger was too great with STBXW. I'm not going to put myself in the same position I was in back at the start of this thread. Ultimately, she would have just left again, no matter what I did. It's who she is.



> dated those types, luckily only once. they're one of the type pop
> 
> warned me about. Boomerang (I will stop using it WWB if it
> 
> bothers you) could be dating two guys on GBs 2014 World Cup
> 
> team and would, as you say, be dissatisfied. I'm sure Conrad
> 
> asked about her childhood, so I won't ask to rehash. But
> 
> whatever is wrong with her, it runs deep. Nothing you can do
> 
> to fix it, it's her problem and she has to solve it. Be glad you
> 
> didn't spend 15 years with her or have four kids.


Yeah Conrad has asked about her childhood, I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere. I notice her behaviour when she doesn't get her own way mirrors that of her mother's. Also, when she left the first time, her father contacted me and told me that the way she was behaving was identical to the way her mother behaved when they split. Behaviour is learned, it isn't part of our core. 

I don't have any ill feelings towards STBXW/Boomerang, she is just behaving the way her family has taught her after all. But, she isn't right for me, and that's what is important.


----------



## Chuck71

you've came a long way from last spring. kudos WWB


----------



## LongWalk

> Yeah Conrad has asked about her childhood, I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere. I notice her behaviour when she doesn't get her own way mirrors that of her mother's. Also, when she left the first time, her father contacted me and told me that the way she was behaving was identical to the way her mother behaved when they split. Behaviour is learned, it isn't part of our core.
> 
> I don't have any ill feelings towards STBXW/Boomerang, she is just behaving the way her family has taught her after all. But, she isn't right for me, and that's what is important.


Indeed. And if she engages in a final flurry of relationship talk, you might just say to her:

*"Boomerang, I don't bear any ill feelings towards you. I will always be fond of you and have good memories our best times together. You were a wonderful lover and friend. But you wanted out of our marriage because you didn't see a way to get past discontent. I don't blame you for that. Just like your mom realized your dad wasn't right for her, you realized I wasn't right for you and that is what's important."*


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Indeed. And if she engages in a final flurry of relationship talk, you might just say to her:
> 
> *"Boomerang, I don't bear any ill feelings towards you. I will always be fond of you and have good memories our best times together. You were a wonderful lover and friend. But you wanted out of our marriage because you didn't see a way to get past discontent. I don't blame you for that. Just like your mom realized your dad wasn't right for her, you realized I wasn't right for you and that is what's important."*


there's a reason why we (Conrad and I, I'm sure there are others)
ask about their childhood. Trauma carries with people

it never fades away unless dealt with


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> you've came a long way from last spring. kudos WWB


Thanks Chuck, I feel like I have .



> there's a reason why we (Conrad and I, I'm sure there are others)
> ask about their childhood. Trauma carries with people
> 
> it never fades away unless dealt with


It does stay with people, I know first hand. 

I'm expecting to feel a little sad tomorrow. I guess that's natural though. But part of me thinks why should I bother lamenting something that's dead and gone, why bother lamenting something that turned out to be so destructive and painful.

I guess I'll see how I feel tomorrow! 



> "Boomerang, I don't bear any ill feelings towards you. I will always be fond of you and have good memories our best times together. You were a wonderful lover and friend. But you wanted out of our marriage because you didn't see a way to get past discontent. I don't blame you for that. Just like your mom realized your dad wasn't right for her, you realized I wasn't right for you and that is what's important."


Or, I could quite simply say "No" and then let her figure out the rest, it's not my job to fix her or even put her on the path, I owe her no favours or explanations .


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Congratulations!

Wow, I hope someday soon I'll be in such a good place as you are, especially emotionally!

Good luck in your next, better chapter of your life!


----------



## LongWalk

WantWifeBack said:


> Or, I could quite simply say "No" and then let her figure out the rest, it's not my job to fix her or even put her on the path, I owe her no favours or explanations .


Silence often speaks louder than words and has more profound impact over time.

You are fortunate it ended sooner rather than later.


----------



## GotLifeBack

HobbesTheTiger said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Wow, I hope someday soon I'll be in such a good place as you are, especially emotionally!
> 
> Good luck in your next, better chapter of your life!


You'll get there, with the right advice, good support and the right attitude .

Thanks, and good luck to you too!



> Silence often speaks louder than words and has more profound impact over time.
> 
> You are fortunate it ended sooner rather than later.


Indeed it does LW. I have no plans of speaking to STBXW again. I came close to getting drawn back in to her cake-eating behaviour. I won't be repeating that.


----------



## Chuck71

TAM, these ads need to stop....I was about to post on WWBs thread

pertaining to divorce...when I have to look at a Revlon mascara

ad. Anyway we all know Clinique is the best :rofl:

WWB you are leaving this mess at about the same age I was

when I left my 2nd love. You are at the age where you will

have numerous opportunities. Heck I thought I knew all there

was to know about love when I was 25. I was so wrong. I 

would love to go back to 25 and know then what I do know.

WWB you have the chance. Chalk her up as a learning

experience as I did my 2nd love. If you were married in 

GB you have a really good shot at having it annulled.


----------



## LongWalk

Boomerang is supposed to pay for this divorce. Let WWB get out of the hassle of trying to do it some other way.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> TAM, these ads need to stop....I was about to post on WWBs thread
> 
> pertaining to divorce...when I have to look at a Revlon mascara
> 
> ad. Anyway we all know Clinique is the best :rofl:
> 
> WWB you are leaving this mess at about the same age I was
> 
> when I left my 2nd love. You are at the age where you will
> 
> have numerous opportunities. Heck I thought I knew all there
> 
> was to know about love when I was 25. I was so wrong. I
> 
> would love to go back to 25 and know then what I do know.
> 
> WWB you have the chance. Chalk her up as a learning
> 
> experience as I did my 2nd love. If you were married in
> 
> GB you have a really good shot at having it annulled.


I know I have many years ahead of me  and I have taken some valuable lessons away from all of this which will help me in the future .



> Boomerang is supposed to pay for this divorce. Let WWB get out of the hassle of trying to do it some other way.


After everything that I paid for for her, I think it's only fair she pays for the divorce as originally agreed .


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WWB! So glad to see that you're doing well! You have come so far, and I see that you just recently passed the ultimate test! Congratulations on your strength in shutting her down, your STBXW must have finally realized what she gave up.


----------



## LongWalk

WantWifeBack said:


> After everything that I paid for for her, I think it's only fair she pays for the divorce as originally agreed .


Ironic that initially she without much thought offered to pay for the divorce because she thought it was a mere irritating detail that your hurt you more, make you more resistant. It was also a point over which your could not resist or argue.

"I can skip some unpleasant discussion with WWB," she thought.

Little did she realize that over time the formality of paperwork would become more important to her symbolically and tactically. She is the one who is pained by filing. She is one who was for weeks, thinking about the divorce proceedings as an opportunity to entice WWB into her magical sex trap.

At the end she did not know what she wanted. If she had had courage she could have tried harder. But she also has her pride and self respect, as she defines it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> WWB! So glad to see that you're doing well! You have come so far, and I see that you just recently passed the ultimate test! Congratulations on your strength in shutting her down, your STBXW must have finally realized what she gave up.


Hey CB1! Hope all is good with you 

Thanks, it did take a lot of strength, it was actually exhausting!

I'm not sure if she has realised. I think maybe she just wanted to cake eat again. She kept telling me about how she had changed, but really she hasn't. Same unfaithful, selfish and entitled Boomerang!

Today is our wedding anniversary. I am feeling a little sad about it. Not so much sad for losing Boomerang, more that I though my dreams had come true, but they hadn't.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Ironic that initially she without much thought offered to pay for the divorce because she thought it was a mere irritating detail that your hurt you more, make you more resistant. It was also a point over which your could not resist or argue.
> 
> "I can skip some unpleasant discussion with WWB," she thought.
> 
> Little did she realize that over time the formality of paperwork would become more important to her symbolically and tactically. She is the one who is pained by filing. She is one who was for weeks, thinking about the divorce proceedings as an opportunity to entice WWB into her magical sex trap.
> 
> At the end she did not know what she wanted. If she had had courage she could have tried harder. But she also has her pride and self respect, as she defines it.


It is ironic really yeah, I think she was expecting me to be heartbroken and pining for her still, but that's not the case. She was not happy when she learned that.

I do find myself wondering if I'll hear from her today as it's our anniversary. I guess time will tell.


----------



## LongWalk

If she contacts you, reply: "Do you remember that time we had sex against a tree in that park? Haha, the memories. Have a great day."

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> Hey CB1! Hope all is good with you
> 
> Thanks, it did take a lot of strength, it was actually exhausting!
> 
> I'm not sure if she has realised. I think maybe she just wanted to cake eat again. She kept telling me about how she had changed, but really she hasn't. Same unfaithful, selfish and entitled Boomerang!
> 
> Today is our wedding anniversary. I am feeling a little sad about it. Not so much sad for losing Boomerang, more that I though my dreams had come true, but they hadn't.


Love the nickname! I'm hoping you are doing something exciting today, to celebrate yourself and your courage!! My first anniversary passed and we had just started our false R, so it was uneventful. I do remember feeling down, same reason as you. My dream has become a nightmare. I definitely had much higher hopes for the first anniversary, and never imagined he'd be cheating by then

Go out and do something special for yourself 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> If she contacts you, reply: "Do you remember that time we had sex against a tree in that park? Haha, the memories. Have a great day."
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Haha LW, luckily no contact yet, unlikely she will out of pride after my rejection of her. It was a good memory though .



> Love the nickname! I'm hoping you are doing something exciting today, to celebrate yourself and your courage!! My first anniversary passed and we had just started our false R, so it was uneventful. I do remember feeling down, same reason as you. My dream has become a nightmare. I definitely had much higher hopes for the first anniversary, and never imagined he'd be cheating by then
> 
> Go out and do something special for yourself


It's a good name, I can thank Chuck for that  I wonder if she'll come back now I've thrown her away! .

I would go out but all of my friends seem to be being anti-social at the moment, so instead, I have cooked myself a nice meal, which Boomerang used to hate . Eating it whilst listening to music that she hated too. A good reminder of a few of the simple pleasures there are in a Boomerangless life.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> It's a good name, I can thank Chuck for that  I wonder if she'll come back now I've thrown her away! .
> 
> I would go out but all of my friends seem to be being anti-social at the moment, so instead, I have cooked myself a nice meal, which Boomerang used to hate . Eating it whilst listening to music that she hated too. A good reminder of a few of the simple pleasures there are in a Boomerangless life.


Sounds like a wonderful way to spend the day  I find solace in alone time these days, even though it seems that I should be feeling lonely I actually prefer the peace!

And I must say, any boomerang I've ever thrown has always just gone away and fallen out of the sky. Those things are never much fun 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> If she contacts you, reply: "Do you remember that time we had sex against a tree in that park? Haha, the memories. Have a great day."
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


You-Do you remember that time we made love in the park, with your red garter belt and stockings on?

Boomerang-THAT wasn't me

You-Oh...okay. Take care


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Sounds like a wonderful way to spend the day  I find solace in alone time these days, even though it seems that I should be feeling lonely I actually prefer the peace!
> 
> And I must say, any boomerang I've ever thrown has always just gone away and fallen out of the sky. Those things are never much fun
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was pretty good! I spent most of the evening playing guitar, and recorded a short video which I uploaded to facebook. Have been trying to build my confidence by uploading a few little videos .

Haha yep, I've never had a boomerang come back properly.They always fly away, then look like they're coming back, only to change direction at the last minute. Kinda like Boomerang at the start of the separation .



> You-Do you remember that time we made love in the park, with your red garter belt and stockings on?
> 
> Boomerang-THAT wasn't me
> 
> You-Oh...okay. Take care


Lol Chuck! Thankfully she hasn't contacted me .


----------



## Honorbound

Chuck71 said:


> You-Do you remember that time we made love in the park, with your red garter belt and stockings on?
> 
> Boomerang-THAT wasn't me
> 
> You-Oh...okay. Take care


:lol::rofl:


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> It was pretty good! I spent most of the evening playing guitar, and recorded a short video which I uploaded to facebook. Have been trying to build my confidence by uploading a few little videos .
> 
> Haha yep, I've never had a boomerang come back properly.They always fly away, then look like they're coming back, only to change direction at the last minute. Kinda like Boomerang at the start of the separation .


Sounds like a great evening, having fun and working on YOU still  Those darn boomerangs.. Man, I so wish I could have used that nickname for my STBXH! Now I need to figure something else out lol


----------



## azteca1986

Hey WWB. Just catching up. I thought I was witnessing a car crash over the last few pages. There she was in a relationship with the OM, escalating things over text with you, getting all 'confused', and you're wondering whether she's changed!

The thing I'm most proud of is you came to the right conclusion on your own. Good man. 

All is well with me, thanks for asking.


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Sounds like a great evening, having fun and working on YOU still  Those darn boomerangs.. Man, I so wish I could have used that nickname for my STBXH! Now I need to figure something else out lol


How about Pong? Bouncing around from woman to woman, like that old Atari Game, except with paddles, not women.



> Hey WWB. Just catching up. I thought I was witnessing a car crash over the last few pages. There she was in a relationship with the OM, escalating things over text with you, getting all 'confused', and you're wondering whether she's changed!
> 
> The thing I'm most proud of is you came to the right conclusion on your own. Good man.
> 
> All is well with me, thanks for asking.


Seems I managed to swerve at the last minute. I was heading for a tree at 100mph, just dodged it though, was a little shaken but back on the road cruising steadily .


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WantWifeBack said:


> How about Pong? Bouncing around from woman to woman, like that old Atari Game, except with paddles, not women.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems I managed to swerve at the last minute. I was heading for a tree at 100mph, just dodged it though, was a little shaken but back on the road cruising steadily .


Ahhh hahahaha. Yes, I like Pong. Thanks WWB, I knew you'd help me come up with something great! :smthumbup:


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, I shot Boomerang a quick message, just to make sure she's still filing for divorce tomorrow as planned. I said:

"Hi Boomerang, are you filing for divorce tomorrow as planned?"

She responded with:

"No unfortunately not tomorrow as I have had an unexpected expense, but will hopefully do it later this week. Can I please ask that you don't contact me any more as agreed. No offense, but this is getting silly."

I replied with:

"I asked you a question that I deemed important. I like to know what's going on. Bye."

I haven't contacted her since I told her that we should stop talking and move on with our lives. I have a feeling that she may be angry because I shut down her cake-eating behaviour.

But, now I have no clue as to when I'll be getting my D papers through .

Maybe this is a play of hers to try and force me to file first?


----------



## LongWalk

How much does it cost to file?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> How much does it cost to file?


£400.

I don't have that kind of money spare. My driving test is coming up soon and I really need a car. Boomerang has had enough of my money already!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Oh I forgot!

Whilst I was talking to Boomerang last week, I gave her a little test.

Happened to mention I was training the new girl at work and she didn't seem to take any information in.

Boomerang said she must be an idiot.

I said "It's too early to say, but she's cute so I'll let her off."

Boomerang's response was "Well, maybe you should go f*ck her then."


----------



## LongWalk

Let her pay the whole fee. Did she get an expensive engagement ring?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Let her pay the whole fee. Did she get an expensive engagement ring?


Yeah I'm going to, that was the agreement after all.

Her engagement ring should cover the cost of the D filing yeah, however she's a very "sentimental" person, therefore she probably won't want to sell it.


----------



## LongWalk

Funny how wealth and money are tied up in engagement and marriage. Why do men have give expensive engagement rings or goat herds to cinch these deals? Why are brides burned in India.

People spend enormous amounts of weddings and the failure rate is probably no different. After a divorce I suppose a lot of people never want to look at the wedding photos again. Although women might be sentimental over their own beauty.

The really wealthy usually have plenty of trouble extracting themselves from marriage financially. Society still punishes people for ending marriages. You can't just declare it over on your own.


----------



## Pictureless

WWB,

This may be unwelcomed advice but I suggest picking a date for a deadline. Start saving up money for court costs and fees. When the date arrives and if she hasn't filed for the D, I think you should. It will be the best money you've ever spent and it will signal you're so over her you're willing to pay to get her out of your life. 

No need for further discussion with her either. Just wait. If she doesn't file by such and such date, you file and be done with it. No talk about it; it speaks for itself.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Pictureless said:


> WWB,
> 
> This may be unwelcomed advice but I suggest picking a date for a deadline. Start saving up money for court costs and fees. When the date arrives and if she hasn't filed for the D, I think you should. It will be the best money you've ever spent and it will signal you're so over her you're willing to pay to get her out of your life.
> 
> No need for further discussion with her either. Just wait. If she doesn't file by such and such date, you file and be done with it. No talk about it; it speaks for itself.


That's actually not bad advice and I will definitely consider it once I've bought a car, at the moment being mobile is more important to me as it will give me significantly less commuting time for work, and significantly more options for dating/socialising.

Thanks


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

I like the idea of a deadline.. I think I'll be doing that as well. WWB, I have a feeling she's going to keep pushing it off, for one reason or another.. I say save up and get yourself a nice car, then start saving for the D.

I don't want to pay for mine either, especially since he's the one who wants all of this! But now, I think that if I don't do it, it will never get done. I would hate to be married to him for another 5 years lol


----------



## Chuck71

WWB funny her comment about female trainee, what does that make her?

she married you. Boomerang is depriving a village of a Queen Derelict.

It grates on her you are moving on. Everytime she says do not contact me,

she hopes you do. I do not see her filing D anytime soon. It is 

something she wishes to "lord over you" with. If you have to pay for D, can 

you sue her in small claims court for at least half $ back? She has no

control over her life so she will subconsciously try to manipulate 

you into allowing her to dictate yours. 

LW-I agree, don't know why people spend $35k on a wedding and end 

up spending another $35k on D. Why not give a respectable ring and, 

say on the 20th ann. a more spectacular one? I will never forget what a

female friend told me many years ago, "It's not the size of the rock that 

matters, it's the size of the heart in the one who gave it"


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I like the idea of a deadline.. I think I'll be doing that as well. WWB, I have a feeling she's going to keep pushing it off, for one reason or another.. I say save up and get yourself a nice car, then start saving for the D.
> 
> I don't want to pay for mine either, especially since he's the one who wants all of this! But now, I think that if I don't do it, it will never get done. I would hate to be married to him for another 5 years lol


Yeah I think I will be setting a deadline. I'm hoping to get a car in the next few weeks, but I guess we shall see.

I do have one problem with filing, I don't know her address, she'd never give it to me. I guess I can always send her the D papers at work!



> WWB funny her comment about female trainee, what does that make her?
> 
> she married you. Boomerang is depriving a village of a Queen Derelict.
> 
> It grates on her you are moving on. Everytime she says do not contact me,
> 
> she hopes you do. I do not see her filing D anytime soon. It is
> 
> something she wishes to "lord over you" with. If you have to pay for D, can
> 
> you sue her in small claims court for at least half $ back? She has no
> 
> control over her life so she will subconsciously try to manipulate
> 
> you into allowing her to dictate yours.
> 
> LW-I agree, don't know why people spend $35k on a wedding and end
> 
> up spending another $35k on D. Why not give a respectable ring and,
> 
> say on the 20th ann. a more spectacular one? I will never forget what a
> 
> female friend told me many years ago, "It's not the size of the rock that
> 
> matters, it's the size of the heart in the one who gave it"


I think it damaged her ego when I told her we should stop talking and get on with her lives. I can see how. 

Imagine somoene begging you to stay, someone who you were everything to, finding their strength and pushing you out of their lives. It's going to upset the ego.


----------



## LongWalk

This is how it was with LostLove. His WW/WAW loved having the security of his devotion even though Chuck nicknamed her Mattress. Finally when he found a girlfriend and did not fawn all over her, she regretted losing him.

I wonder how it is for some women to go from having a magnetic pull on guys in their teens, when a pretty, flirtatious girl can have different guys chasing and then choose who they date. Psychologically, do they believe in that power? And when they walk away or cheat don't they still think they are going to choose.

Boomerang wasn't just with OM, was she? She wanted to compare among suitors.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> This is how it was with LostLove. His WW/WAW loved having the security of his devotion even though Chuck nicknamed her Mattress. Finally when he found a girlfriend and did not fawn all over her, she regretted losing him.
> 
> I wonder how it is for some women to go from having a magnetic pull on guys in their teens, when a pretty, flirtatious girl can have different guys chasing and then choose who they date. Psychologically, do they believe in that power? And when they walk away or cheat don't they still think they are going to choose.
> 
> Boomerang wasn't just with OM, was she? She wanted to compare among suitors.


I think you're right.

Me, 9 months ago, I would have done _anything_ to get her back, to save my M. I worshiped her (unhealthily, I might add!). Then fast forward 9 months, and she isn't all that. She must be thinking:

"What's wrong with me? This guy loved me and was totally devoted to me, and now _he_ doesn't want to be with _me_. How can such a thing happen, WWB should be pining over me for years to come yet!"

The impression she gave me was after she left, she didn't get straight in to a relationship with OM, but slept around a little before getting in to another relationship. I don't know exact numbers but she said she'd had a "fair few compliments" on her performance. Quite nice that whatever the number is, I'm still the best . Haha.


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> This is how it was with LostLove. His WW/WAW loved having the security of his devotion even though Chuck nicknamed her Mattress. .


I nick'd her Trampoline

since she bounced from guy to guy


----------



## GotLifeBack

Wondering how much "nearer the end of the week" she means. I class Wednesday as nearer the end of the week, but maybe that's just because my job bores me .


----------



## LongWalk

The onus of filing is on her. Let her eat the £400 cost. Ouch, right in her purse. She'll hate you when she forks over the money. It'll be over in her mind at that point, unless you accidentally give her some signal of hope.

As to the sex, well, she married you for some reason. You're not very wealthy, so it must have been for the sex.

She doesn't want to get back together with you for the sex. She hates having the failed marriage stamp on her forehead. Whatever official explanation she cooks up will require some sort of dishonest rationalization.

"We were married a year and drifted apart," she says.

"Oh, how fortunate you got out before having children," replies other.

_"The marriage didn't last a year? WTF,"_ thinks other, letting eyebrows wrinkle ever so slightly.

"He was a nice guy but we wanted different things from life," she adds.

"What did he do for a living?" other continues.

etc, etc.

These conversations must be horrible. Of course, there is a version for friends and relations. You only have one version:



> My wife turned out to be a cheater and dumped me but then wanted to get back together while she was still with one of her lovers. I said, "thanks but no thanks, Boomerang."


Her story never mentions Australian hunting methods.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> The onus of filing is on her. Let her eat the £400 cost. Ouch, right in her purse. She'll hate you when she forks over the money. It'll be over in her mind at that point, unless you accidentally give her some signal of hope.
> 
> As to the sex, well, she married you for some reason. You're not very wealthy, so it must have been for the sex.
> 
> She doesn't want to get back together with you for the sex. She hates having the failed marriage stamp on her forehead. Whatever official explanation she cooks up will require some sort of dishonest rationalization.
> 
> "We were married a year and drifted apart," she says.
> 
> "Oh, how fortunate you got out before having children," replies other.
> 
> _"The marriage didn't last a year? WTF,"_ thinks other, letting eyebrows wrinkle ever so slightly.
> 
> "He was a nice guy but we wanted different things from life," she adds.
> 
> "What did he do for a living?" other continues.
> 
> etc, etc.
> 
> These conversations must be horrible. Of course, there is a version for friends and relations. You only have one version:
> 
> 
> 
> Her story never mentions Australian hunting methods.


I'm not so sure, in this day and age is being divorced really that abnormal? Does society still frown upon it?

I'm sure she will have to cook up dishonest explanations, if she's honest, she will be the one in the wrong, and well, Boomerang can never be wrong.

I like your version of my events LW, you have a way with words haha .


----------



## Chuck71

D does not have the stigma it once did, not in US

even churches have backed away

but why is that? some old based churches still denounce D

and guess what..... attendance dwindled

churches should know, take cue from their sibling

the government.... when a mass of people file bankruptcy

you must cater to them to stay viable, just........ :rofl:

raise intrest rates. not much different in Europe


----------



## LongWalk

Of course divorce is no longer a big deal, but it still is big deal in any case. There are few institutions that openly punish people for being divorced.

I'll be insurance and credit rating formulas increase costs (where it is legal) for divorced men. At the very least actuaries consider divorce a factor in calculations.

Employment interviews should not bring up marital status, but I am sure some HR background checks note it. 

A divorced person has some sort of story behind the failure of their relationship. A single person has some sort of story behind their failure to marry. I'll be 45 year old guy who has never been married or had a LTR would raise questions among women who dated him.

Divorced 6 times... stigmatised.

WWB, you don't have a complicated story. Your stbxw cheated ran off. She can never tell the truth, except to strangers in an Internet forum.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, it's the end of the week, and still no news regarding filing. She may have filed and I may be just receiving the paperwork in the post, but I would assume she'd let me know when she's filed.


----------



## LongWalk

Maybe she'll drag her feet a little but there's nothing to do but wait.


----------



## movealong

Go to the county website and see if there is a case filed. Easy to google it and find out for sure.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Just like movealong said, I would try to get on to the county website and look. I'm able to go through family court and look at recent filings and hearing dates. I wonder if it's some kind of strange sign... But when I look, I see my last name multiple times.... My STBX's parents divorce, his brothers custody battles, and his sisters divorce and multiple custody battles. The family law division goes back 20 years, and my married name is in there almost 10 times... But not for my D yet!

Patience WWB  I'm sure she'll probably even contact you again before she files.. Just to make sure you're "sure"! I love how they second guess themselves and try to let us make the final call!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> Just like movealong said, I would try to get on to the county website and look. I'm able to go through family court and look at recent filings and hearing dates. I wonder if it's some kind of strange sign... But when I look, I see my last name multiple times.... My STBX's parents divorce, his brothers custody battles, and his sisters divorce and multiple custody battles. The family law division goes back 20 years, and my married name is in there almost 10 times... But not for my D yet!
> 
> Patience WWB  I'm sure she'll probably even contact you again before she files.. Just to make sure you're "sure"! I love how they second guess themselves and try to let us make the final call!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll check it out 

You're probably right, she probably will contact me. It's so strange how the tables have turned, I didn't expect it all. As far as I'm concerned I've already made the final call though .


----------



## Chuck71

WantWifeBack said:


> I'll check it out
> 
> You're probably right, she probably will contact me. It's so strange how the tables have turned, I didn't expect it all. As far as I'm concerned I've already made the final call though .


WWB.... I have tried to recall where I saw / heard it

but isn't there a "yeoman" D procedure you could look into?

I just can't see Boomerang doing anything over a snail's pace.

LW may know more about this. If it means you having to pay,

is it worth the piece of mind to move on? In the US, a couple

can separate, date others, form LTRs. But when it comes time

for a wedding...:lol: can't. How would you feel if you got on

with your life, met someone, wanted to marry and start family?

Can't, still married to Boomerang. Think she would agree, much 

less pay...for one? She will do everything in her power to hold

you back.... but in her mind, she still has you, can in some way

control you.


----------



## LongWalk

There is debate about how bad being separated is when dating. I wouldn't agonize over it. As long as you are upfront and tell women that you are getting divorced, that is enough. If Boomy drags it out once there is a woman to whom you want to propose, you can pay and get it done without talking about it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, still no news of filing. I really hope she has filed and just hasn't told me. I couldn't find anything online when I looked.

No way am I going to contact her to ask again, so i'll just stay patient.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Still no news on the divorce to report .

Been having some contact from Miss T lately, but yesterday I decided to cut her off. Deleted her phone number and cleared all my call logs.

I also deleted her from facebook again, she re-added me a couple of weeks ago, but last night I decided that I'm not going to be demoted from her boyfriend to just another +1 on her friend list.

I don't want her keeping tabs on me or my life.

We aren't going to be friends, and we aren't going to hang out anymore, so what's the point of having her on there?


----------



## Chuck71

again, she does not intend to pay for a D


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> again, she does not intend to pay for a D


Probably not Chuck.

I'll remain patient though, I've set a deadline in my mind. If she doesn't file by then, I will.


----------



## movinonup

Man I would do it asap if I were you, just to get it out of the way. I've read up on your whole story and it is amazing to see where you started and where you are now. Any advice to provide? Been separated three months, divorce has been filed, already going through the steps on each side, we both have lawyers, and there's kids, but still working my way past the randomly depressed stage. You seem like you've arrived, how do I get there?


----------



## Chuck71

movinonup said:


> Man I would do it asap if I were you, just to get it out of the way. I've read up on your whole story and it is amazing to see where you started and where you are now. Any advice to provide? Been separated three months, divorce has been filed, already going through the steps on each side, we both have lawyers, and there's kids, but still working my way past the randomly depressed stage. You seem like you've arrived, how do I get there?



movinonup start your own blog and we will all help you out

give you support or a 2x4 when you need it. I was once in a 

state of desperation, not knowing what to do. So was ReGroup,

Zillard, GutPunch. We all graduated with honors. So can you.

WWB....I would not say this if I didn't think you could do it....

file D, have her served. That will attract her to you. Manliness.

But you have pooped her out of your system. Showing her you 

have your nads..... is an important part in moving on.

edit-movingonup disregard comment. you have started a blog


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> movinonup start your own blog and we will all help you out
> 
> give you support or a 2x4 when you need it. I was once in a
> 
> state of desperation, not knowing what to do. So was ReGroup,
> 
> Zillard, GutPunch. We all graduated with honors. So can you.
> 
> WWB....I would not say this if I didn't think you could do it....
> 
> file D, have her served. That will attract her to you. Manliness.
> 
> But you have pooped her out of your system. Showing her you
> 
> have your nads..... is an important part in moving on.
> 
> edit-movingonup disregard comment. you have started a blog


I will file as soon as I have the money together, unfortunately as it stands I have other priorities for my finances rather than granting her what she wants, yet again.

I'm just a bit frustrated at the moment, she'd had a long time to plan for this, she agreed to pay for the D, so why hasn't it happened yet? Did she genuinely need the money for something else? I doubt it. Is she dragging it to either:

A.) Force me to file and pay all associated costs
or
B.) Dragging it out hoping to play on my emotions again in the coming months.



> Man I would do it asap if I were you, just to get it out of the way. I've read up on your whole story and it is amazing to see where you started and where you are now. Any advice to provide? Been separated three months, divorce has been filed, already going through the steps on each side, we both have lawyers, and there's kids, but still working my way past the randomly depressed stage. You seem like you've arrived, how do I get there?


It's difficult to advise exactly, as I haven't read your thread yet (I will do at some point today ).

Some general tips are:

Focus on yourself - think about what you want, do what you want to do.

Set yourself goals to work towards - then work towards them.

Join a gym if you aren't already a member of one - This really helped me at the start, it gave me downtime from thinking about Boomerang. When I'm lifting the only thing I'm capable of thinking is "Holy sh!t this is heavy, I hope my wrists don't snap". Since then it's become something of a passion of mine.

If you have any hobbies, throw yourself in to them - I play guitar, I found it extremely therapeutic.

Surround yourself with friends and family who love you - This was important for me, it helped me realise that even though Boomerang didn't love me, there are people who genuinely love me for my authentic self.


----------



## Pictureless

WWB,

I'd like to share with you a consequence of waiting to file that I've recently discovered which has become a minor issue for my recovery. 

My wife ended the marriage and filed the divorce. We had the hearing and the court approved our agreement. Now the problem is waiting for the divorce to become legal and final. It's like dating purgatory. 

I'm sharing this because you might not have considered it. Suppose you meet someone you can really become interested in romantically. While you might be ready emotionally and spiritually, LEGALLY you are still married. This matters to some people. 

I'd hate to see you lose out on a chance with a quality person because of the divorce laws mandatory cooling off period. Just sharing for you to consider.


----------



## Chuck71

if a female lists separated on a dating site, she gets more PMs

a guy separated, gets nothing. a guy does not care what a girl's 

relationship status is. females do care what a guy's status is.


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

Chuck71 said:


> if a female lists separated on a dating site, she gets more PMs
> 
> a guy separated, gets nothing. a guy does not care what a girl's
> 
> relationship status is. females do care what a guy's status is.


Especially if that guy is posting separated while he's still married and living in the home!! That's what my STBX did before we split... Oddly enough, he also put that he has no kids and doesn't want any. How do you explain later down the road that you're going through divorce and custody battles? Lmao!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CrazyBeautiful1

WWB, I admire your patience throughout all of this! I'm hoping for your sake that boomerang files as she said she would. You shouldn't have to pay to grant her wish.

If she doesn't file by your deadline, can't you file and ask for reimbursement for legal fees? Just a thought!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> WWB, I admire your patience throughout all of this! I'm hoping for your sake that boomerang files as she said she would. You shouldn't have to pay to grant her wish.
> 
> If she doesn't file by your deadline, can't you file and ask for reimbursement for legal fees? Just a thought!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure if you can do that in the UK - I've never heard of it in the context of divorce anyway.

I'll look in to it though for sure  Thanks CB1.


----------



## LongWalk

She should pay.

Hold out for week and then call her.

You still don't know where she lives right? You cannot file withou that information anyway, can you?


----------



## LongWalk

WWB,

Great post. Boomie loved/loves you about as well as she could but she is disloyal and weak. For any person to give up on her marriage with so little effort or soul searching shows no character.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chuck71

WWB.... Boomerang wants you to pay check

WWB wants Boomerang to pay check

How much would it bother you if a D was not filed for.... a year?

If it will not hold you back emotionally ...... wait her out ...... 

Both of you will find someone else

Boomerang's cycle will draw in a victim

for her to cast the web, she must be D, 

maybe she plays victim and coaxes the next guy into paying

It will help in your growth if you filed and gave her the middle finger

cost vs. peace of mind; what is best for you


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> WWB.... Boomerang wants you to pay check
> 
> WWB wants Boomerang to pay check
> 
> How much would it bother you if a D was not filed for.... a year?
> 
> If it will not hold you back emotionally ...... wait her out ......
> 
> Both of you will find someone else
> 
> Boomerang's cycle will draw in a victim
> 
> for her to cast the web, she must be D,
> 
> maybe she plays victim and coaxes the next guy into paying
> 
> It will help in your growth if you filed and gave her the middle finger
> 
> cost vs. peace of mind; what is best for you


If the deadline comes and goes and she hasn't filed, I will see if I can file, although I don't have her address. I may be able to send it to her place of employment however? I'm unsure. I have some details to figure out before filing will even be possible. I guess I'll see what happens.


----------



## azteca1986

I'll chuck in my two penn'oth, though admittedly as someone who hasn't gone through a divorce.

WWB, you mentioned you were saving for a car, right? Well, I think you should go for it. It's an important step, for a man - gaining your mobility, literally going places & moving on. If the deadline you've set yourself is in the not too distant future, get the car. Don't put your life on hold for her just because stbx hasn't got her sh!t together or is trying to suck you into some drama.


----------



## GotLifeBack

azteca1986 said:


> I'll chuck in my two penn'oth, though admittedly as someone who hasn't gone through a divorce.
> 
> WWB, you mentioned you were saving for a car, right? Well, I think you should go for it. It's an important step, for a man - gaining your mobility, literally going places & moving on. If the deadline you've set yourself is in the not too distant future, get the car. Don't put your life on hold for her just because stbx hasn't got her sh!t together or is trying to suck you into some drama.


Exactly my thoughts azteca. The car comes first because it will have a far bigger positive impact on my life right now than a divorce will. The divorce can come afterwards!


----------



## movinonup

Yeah man, you've moved on, f her dude. Get the car, you deserve it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

movinonup said:


> Yeah man, you've moved on, f her dude. Get the car, you deserve it.


Haha, I will do soon. England is a small country. The dating possibilities will be endless .


----------



## Chuck71

after you file D on her, can you deliver them to her, in your car???


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> after you file D on her, can you deliver them to her, in your car???


Haha perhaps I can yeah, roll up looking sharp in a nice BMW, leather seats etc .


----------



## LongWalk

You could rent or borrow one. Tell her to meet you at some coffee shop and ask her to sign them. Great idea.

Let her stew for as long as you can stand it.

You can truthfully tell any woman you date that your flakey wife cheated on you, walked out, promising to file for divorce to save you the pain and expense. After less than a year she wanted reconcile but you declined. Now you are just waiting and wonder from time to time if she is going to keep her promise....

Did she take your surname by the way? If so, you can wait her out. She will destroy her prospects of marriage by keeping the name of a man she left but refused to divorce.


----------



## Chuck71

The day Boomerang keeps a promise to WWB

is the day I will show up at Parliament

in a French maid outfit and six inch pumps


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> You could rent or borrow one. Tell her to meet you at some coffee shop and ask her to sign them. Great idea.
> 
> Let her stew for as long as you can stand it.
> 
> You can truthfully tell any woman you date that your flakey wife cheated on you, walked out, promising to file for divorce to save you the pain and expense. After less than a year she wanted reconcile but you declined. Now you are just waiting and wonder from time to time if she is going to keep her promise....
> 
> Did she take your surname by the way? If so, you can wait her out. She will destroy her prospects of marriage by keeping the name of a man she left but refused to divorce.


Not a bad idea at all, I'll give it some thought 

She stopped using my name the moment we separated, but legally, she still has my surname. 

In other news, couple of new ladies on my radar, we'll call them Miss N and Miss L2 (different woman to Miss L from earlier in the thread! When it gets up to Miss L73 and Miss R42, I'll begin to worry.)

They're both attractive, both easy to talk to, and both seem interested in me. I'm not 100% sure how to proceed because they are both younger than me, and after my experiences with Miss T, I think I need to look for less of an age gap - but, I can't tar them all with the same brush I suppose.

I'm going out for dinner with family tonight to a pub-restaurant, which has been planned for weeks. Yesterday, I learned that Miss L2 has just started working there, so I'd best make sure I look good tonight, in case she's working .

Miss N frequently sends me flirty messages, and a lot of my friends tell me she's definitely interested in me. I'm not 100% sure she is (or Miss L2 for that matter). 

I believe of the two that Miss L2 is slightly younger.

I guess I'll see how it goes and let things unfold as they unfold .


----------



## LongWalk

Every time she signs a legal document she has to write your name. What a f'ing trigger. It doesn't matter what she thinks, hates you, loves you, wonders, wonders not. It's all about you. Now we know what patriarchy means. Haha.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Every time she signs a legal document she has to write your name. What a f'ing trigger. It doesn't matter what she thinks, hates you, loves you, wonders, wonders not. It's all about you. Now we know what patriarchy means. Haha.


How do you mean "it's all about you"? I'm not sure I quite understand heh.


----------



## LongWalk

When she writes your name she must think of you. Whatever she thinks may vary but the only thought she can have is about you, unless she completely accepts your name as her identity. She didn't.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chuck71

:iagree:


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> When she writes your name she must think of you. Whatever she thinks may vary but the only thought she can have is about you, unless she completely accepts your name as her identity. She didn't.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Ahh, I understand now, hehe


----------



## LongWalk

Of course it is possible that she consciously signs legal documents with her maiden name, but even then she wonders if it could get her in trouble. I don't think it would, but it must pop up in her mind in any case.

If she has a child out of wedlock.... oops, there is a reason to file for the divorce. Probably she is not trying to have child but still, it is possible. Buy the car first and worry about her later.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Of course it is possible that she consciously signs legal documents with her maiden name, but even then she wonders if it could get her in trouble. I don't think it would, but it must pop up in her mind in any case.
> 
> If she has a child out of wedlock.... oops, there is a reason to file for the divorce. Probably she is not trying to have child but still, it is possible. Buy the car first and worry about her later.


Yeah that's the plan mate. Car is more important than Boomerang.

Sadly Miss L2 wasn't working last night  shame.


----------



## Chuck71

Boomerang: Why didn't you D me and instead got a car?

WWB: (Silence)

Boomerang: Did you hear me? Give me attention! Don't you dare 

ignore me. Come help me! Can I drive your car?

WWB: (smiles and gives her the middle finger)


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> Boomerang: Why didn't you D me and instead got a car?
> 
> WWB: (Silence)
> 
> Boomerang: Did you hear me? Give me attention! Don't you dare
> 
> ignore me. Come help me! Can I drive your car?
> 
> WWB: (smiles and gives her the middle finger)


Yeah I'd say that about sums it up actually.

I'd probably omit the smile though


----------



## LongWalk

WWB,

I can't remember the details, but I guess that boomerang is good looking and you were kind of proud and happy to married her. Now you will be looking for character as well as looks.

One thing about women: although some are so beautiful it hurts, there a large number who are sort of attractive. You say well, yeah not perfect looking but wouldn't mind sleeping with her. But then there is the x factor. A warm smile. Intelligent eyes. Quality conversation. Loyalty.

I think a lot of people are capable of cheating, but there are some who won't. If you have a woman whom you know is trusty worthy that count for something in my books.

Every morning she has to get up and look at her face and think that's me, Boomerang the cheater who is still Mrs. WWB because I'm too stingy to file for divorce. You're over her... haha, someday you have to take a vacation to Australia


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> WWB,
> 
> I can't remember the details, but I guess that boomerang is good looking and you were kind of proud and happy to married her. Now you will be looking for character as well as looks.
> 
> One thing about women: although some are so beautiful it hurts, there a large number who are sort of attractive. You say well, yeah not perfect looking but wouldn't mind sleeping with her. But then there is the x factor. A warm smile. Intelligent eyes. Quality conversation. Loyalty.
> 
> I think a lot of people are capable of cheating, but there are some who won't. If you have a woman whom you know is trusty worthy that count for something in my books.
> 
> Every morning she has to get up and look at her face and think that's me, Boomerang the cheater who is still Mrs. WWB because I'm too stingy to file for divorce. You're over her... haha, someday you have to take a vacation to Australia


Yeah Boomerang was a very physically attractive woman. I kind of was proud. Having always considered myself an ugly person growing up as a teenager, and low self-esteem, I was amazed that I could get such a good looking woman!

Speaking of good-looking women, there's yet another new potential on the scene. I have so many plates spinning right now, it's insane. Most of them just spin themselves, with a little nudge from me every now and then.

We'll call this one Miss V. We have an awful lot in common in terms of hobbies. She enjoys the odd video game, she plays guitar, she's a fitness enthusiast, and we both work in the same industry. 

She has been messaging me almost all day, every day for the past week and I've really been enjoying talking to her. May organise a date with her soon  She has mentioned us going to the beach together, so maybe that's an idea.


----------



## LongWalk

Beach = she welcomes you to see her in swim wear = if you are cool = soon welcome to see her without swim wear


----------



## Chuck71

plates spinning by themselves? Do you live near Uri Geller?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> plates spinning by themselves? Do you live near Uri Geller?



I thought that was the bending spoon?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Beach = she welcomes you to see her in swim wear = if you are cool = soon welcome to see her without swim wear


Indeed, our conversations are effortless and flowing. I'll be keeping an eye on this one


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> plates spinning by themselves? Do you live near Uri Geller?


tom67 is right, Uri Gellar bends spoons 

But what I mean by them spinning themselves, is it's fairly effortless.

I don't need to even make contact with most of them, I'll just put a post up on facebook and one of them will hijack the comments section. I have noticed that if one hijacks the comments, none of the others will comment on that particular post  It's like whoever gets there first claims it.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Also forgot to mention, STBXW/Boomerang still hasn't filed.

Also Miss T started getting in contact again over the weekend, obviously my ignorance didn't get the message across as she kept contacting me. I told her outright to stop contacting me, and that we aren't friends. She didn't take it well.


----------



## LongWalk

Miss T's breaking up with you was a shxt text to see if you cared.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Miss T's breaking up with you was a shxt text to see if you cared.


I know mate, I didn't bite though, and I guess she found it attractive as this is now the 3rd time she's broken NC.


----------



## LongWalk

Ask her if she just wants sex to see what it feels like.


----------



## Chuck71

is she Anglican?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Ask her if she just wants sex to see what it feels like.


I'm actually pretty sure she'd say yes.



> is she Anglican?


Anglican as in the sect of Christianity? Nope.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Quick question, a little unrelated to recent topics, but not entirely.

What's the maximum distance you'd consider dating someone over?

One of the women I've been speaking with lives 60 miles away, and the more I think about it, the more I'd like to ask her for a date... but is that too far?

Looking at around an hour by car...


----------



## movealong

WantWifeBack said:


> Quick question, a little unrelated to recent topics, but not entirely.
> 
> What's the maximum distance you'd consider dating someone over?
> 
> One of the women I've been speaking with lives 60 miles away, and the more I think about it, the more I'd like to ask her for a date... but is that too far?
> 
> Looking at around an hour by car...


I drive 40 miles one way to work. I'd drive 60 for a good date, lol!


----------



## GotLifeBack

movealong said:


> I drive 40 miles one way to work. I'd drive 60 for a good date, lol!


Fair point! hehe.


----------



## Chuck71

if it's a how ya doing date, meet halfway, you buy dinner

if it's potential, you drive and pay, maybe she reciprocate driving

halfway or to you for next

I drove around 100 for one right after college for first date

I drove for the next few... but I stayed the weekend too, danm she

could cook like a master chef .... in the end, it was cheaper for me

to do all the driving and her putting out spreads that would cost

quite a bit of $$ if we went out


----------



## LongWalk

Is this why you are anxious to buy a car?


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Is this why you are anxious to buy a car?


No this isn't why I'm anxious to buy a car  I've been saving for a car for months and months now, this new lady, Miss V, has only been on the scene for two weeks.

Also, I went ahead and arranged a date with her. We'll both travel to London by train as it's a mid-point train station on that journey, and spend the day together in the city.


----------



## Chuck71

but you have to admit, the passion is a lot more 

making out in a car than a crowded train


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> but you have to admit, the passion is a lot more
> 
> making out in a car than a crowded train


Unless you're an exhibitionist.... which i'm not, by the way 

But all joking aside, it's in just under two weeks


----------



## LongWalk

I've done both, OK sex in train was in a private compartment but there is always a risk that the conductor would open the door. Had horrible bed bug bites on one.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> I've done both, OK sex in train was in a private compartment but there is always a risk that the conductor would open the door. Had horrible bed bug bites on one.


Crazy 

I don't think I've ever been on a train with a private compartment.

Already feeling slightly nervous about my date. Not sure if that's a good thing or not....


----------



## Chuck71

it's a good thing but, above all BE YOURSELF

she is just as curious about you as you are her

what do you have planned for the date?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> it's a good thing but, above all BE YOURSELF
> 
> she is just as curious about you as you are her
> 
> what do you have planned for the date?


So far the plan is to meet in London in the morning, then check out the aquarium, and do some tourist style sight-seeing things (even though, being a Brit, both of us will have done this 100 times, it's still fun )

I'm looking forward to it too though  

Still no word from Boomerang on filing


----------



## Chuck71

one day, I'd love to see the bunker Churchill was in during WW2

don't expect anything from Boomerang

until...... she catches wind you're involved with someone


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> one day, I'd love to see the bunker Churchill was in during WW2
> 
> don't expect anything from Boomerang
> 
> until...... she catches wind you're involved with someone


I'm just looking forward to spending the day with an attractive woman, I don't care whether we look at bunkers or fish 

Boomerang may pop up soon if she learns of my involvement with other ladies.


----------



## LongWalk

Facebook a picture of something while your in London, not necessarily your date. If she tags herself or reposts it, Boomerang may see it. But just ignore her. She owes you one 400 quid divorce.


----------



## Chuck71

Morning hike, always great for a first date with cerebral gal


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Facebook a picture of something while your in London, not necessarily your date. If she tags herself or reposts it, Boomerang may see it. But just ignore her. She owes you one 400 quid divorce.


If Boomerang does not see it, one of her spies will for sure


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Facebook a picture of something while your in London, not necessarily your date. If she tags herself or reposts it, Boomerang may see it. But just ignore her. She owes you one 400 quid divorce.


I will probably take some pictures of the cool stuff in the aquarium, maybe some buildings and stuff like that  maybe one of me and my date doing something, if she's agreeable :O


----------



## GotLifeBack

Struggling to remain patient waiting for Boomerang to file.

Have had no further contact from her to indicate if/when she's going to file so I'm assuming she isn't going to at all.

Just seems like a childish final protest against her not getting her own way again.


----------



## Chuck71

Boomerang will never file, when in past has she been accountable?

the only way you will not have to pay for it is

she meets some guy and he pays for it for her

that action would sound familiar wouldn't it?


----------



## LongWalk

Do you know her postal address?

You could submit information to a few companies on her behalf, just three or four, giving her married name Mrs. First Name and her official surname.

So some garden tool supply catalog comes with this irritating reminder that she does not have some cozy English home with a garden with a husband.

Furniture, financial services, family clothing.

Don't fill out the forms online with your IP address. No joke items, e.g., sex toys, etc. Only do three so that it doesn't look like some one is behind it. Change the name slightly so that they are not identical, e.g., add her maiden name initial on one. Write Ms. on another.


----------



## SamuraiJack

LongWalk said:


> Do you know her postal address?
> 
> You could submit information to a few companies on her behalf, just three or four, giving her married name Mrs. First Name and her official surname.
> 
> So some garden tool supply catalog comes with this irritating reminder that she does not have some cozy English home with a garden with a husband.
> 
> Furniture, financial services, family clothing.
> 
> Don't fill out the forms online with your IP address. No joke items, e.g., sex toys, etc. Only do three so that it doesn't look like some one is behind it. Change the name slightly so that they are not identical, e.g., add her maiden name initial on one. Write Ms. on another.


Oh the sheer deliciousness of this...you think like I do. :rofl:


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> Boomerang will never file, when in past has she been accountable?
> 
> the only way you will not have to pay for it is
> 
> she meets some guy and he pays for it for her
> 
> that action would sound familiar wouldn't it?


Yes, this sounds familiar and i'd say is quite likely. It works for me though .



> Do you know her postal address?
> 
> You could submit information to a few companies on her behalf, just three or four, giving her married name Mrs. First Name and her official surname.
> 
> So some garden tool supply catalog comes with this irritating reminder that she does not have some cozy English home with a garden with a husband.
> 
> Furniture, financial services, family clothing.
> 
> Don't fill out the forms online with your IP address. No joke items, e.g., sex toys, etc. Only do three so that it doesn't look like some one is behind it. Change the name slightly so that they are not identical, e.g., add her maiden name initial on one. Write Ms. on another.


Whilst I can see the humour in this, it seems somewhat pointless, perhaps even a little bitter.

I just have no feelings towards her at all, including bitterness.


----------



## LongWalk

The only point was to motivate her to file. But perhaps she needs an ardent fiancé who wants to end the entanglement.

This thread could run a long time.


----------



## Chuck71

didn't ReGroup's go for 425 pages? I think Lifescript's is longer, not sure


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> The only point was to motivate her to file. But perhaps she needs an ardent fiancé who wants to end the entanglement.
> 
> This thread could run a long time.


I doubt anything will motivate her to file, unless it's for her own selfish needs.

I guess we'll see in time.


----------



## helolover

WantWifeBack said:


> I doubt anything will motivate her to file, unless it's for her own selfish needs.
> 
> I guess we'll see in time.


Mate, 

Take control of this shyte and file immediately. You have the stones to do this. Take your life back. 

My two pence.

HL


----------



## LongWalk

It doesn't matter that much at present. Let her stew for a while.


----------



## Rugs

Can someone give a brief history here? I skipped around but can't figure out what OP is doing. 

Does OP finally have a handle on his situation? 

Thanks.


----------



## LongWalk

Yes, Rugs. OP finally managed to accept that he lost his wife. He dated. After all the pain came insight. Eventually, when it came time to meet her for some reason, she had changed her mind and wanted to try again because he was still best in bed. OP rejected her.


----------



## upsetDan

Hi.
I have sat and read all 112 pages of this, and i have to say your the man! i am currently 4 months into separation and struggling and you have given me motivation and light at the end of the tunnel. is there anyway i can direct message you? i am also in UK and i also am about to start a divorce....
UpsetDan


----------



## GotLifeBack

helolover said:


> Mate,
> 
> Take control of this shyte and file immediately. You have the stones to do this. Take your life back.
> 
> My two pence.
> 
> HL


Got the stones mate, not the cash :/ I have a deadline in mind, I'll have the cash by then and will be filing if she hasn't 

I see where you're coming from though mate!



> Hi.
> I have sat and read all 112 pages of this, and i have to say your the man! i am currently 4 months into separation and struggling and you have given me motivation and light at the end of the tunnel. is there anyway i can direct message you? i am also in UK and i also am about to start a divorce....
> UpsetDan


Haha thanks  you'll get there too in time.

Inbox me your name and location and I'll try to find you on facebook if you like?


----------



## GotLifeBack

Rugs said:


> Can someone give a brief history here? I skipped around but can't figure out what OP is doing.
> 
> Does OP finally have a handle on his situation?
> 
> Thanks.


I like to think so  it was more getting a handle of myself, rather than getting a handle of the separation/divorce though.



> Yes, Rugs. OP finally managed to accept that he lost his wife. He dated. After all the pain came insight. Eventually, when it came time to meet her for some reason, she had changed her mind and wanted to try again because he was still best in bed. OP rejected her.


Way to summarize a thread that spans over 100 pages and almost a years worth of contributions  haha.

My own summary would be as follows

I was a doormat.
Was blind to her faults and poor behaviours.
Sought advice.
Listened to advice.
Acted upon advice where I agreed with it.
Now I'm no longer a doormat.
I actually get more female attention than I ever have in my life too.

I'm actually pleased all this happened, it helped make me the person I am now, and for the first time in my life, I actually like myself .


----------



## Chuck71

WWB you have indeed come a long way, I remember you posted a 

lot on Angst's thread last summer. I see these journeys like climbing

a mountain. 18 months ago, I needed someone to help me up the 

mountain. When you see the view, and others coming behind you...

you wish to help those up too.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> WWB you have indeed come a long way, I remember you posted a
> 
> lot on Angst's thread last summer. I see these journeys like climbing
> 
> a mountain. 18 months ago, I needed someone to help me up the
> 
> mountain. When you see the view, and others coming behind you...
> 
> you wish to help those up too.


That's a good way to look at it Chuck .

The view from the top of the mountain is not only breath-taking, but it's worth every step.


----------



## Chuck71

it is WWB, yes it is. I know you almost want to kick yourself in the 

a$$ for putting up with so much. Your thread is now being read by

newbys. That's what it's all about. Learn and allow to be learned

from. I recall... you were distraught last summer and I said

something about your W thinking you were a vomiting ATM. You

said you laughed while reading it, the first time you had laughed

in awhile.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> it is WWB, yes it is. I know you almost want to kick yourself in the
> 
> a$$ for putting up with so much. Your thread is now being read by
> 
> newbys. That's what it's all about. Learn and allow to be learned
> 
> from. I recall... you were distraught last summer and I said
> 
> something about your W thinking you were a vomiting ATM. You
> 
> said you laughed while reading it, the first time you had laughed
> 
> in awhile.


Haha yeah I remember 

I'm glad that the thread can help newbies, nice to be able to give something back for all the help I was given when I needed it :smthumbup:

Every now and then I still read the first half of my thread and think "Wtf, who was that guy?"


----------



## GotLifeBack

Quick update, my date was a success :smthumbup:. It went insanely well for a first date, and we didn't even really do anything.

We went to the aquarium and then just spent 11 hours straight just walking around the centre of London talking and stopping for the occasional coffee or bite to eat.

Second date has been arranged for a few weeks time, and involves an overnight stay in a hotel


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, the second date has been brought forwards and is now tomorrow! 

I arranged a date with her originally for a few weeks time, she said she wished she could see me sooner, both of us swapped some things about and we'll be spending the day together tomorrow.

Can't afford a hotel until I've been paid though, and nor can she, so, the plan has changed somewhat to a day in the city, then back to my hometown for drinks, followed by back to mine for...... well, we'll see .

Pretty excited about it :smthumbup:


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well, two updates, firstly, date two was a huge success, it couldn't have gone better really .

Secondly, I received the D papers in the mail, it looks like STBXW has finally filed.

Her address in the D papers proves that she had been lying to me the entire time about where she was living, as I'd thought. Her address happens to be an address in the OMs hometown. So, odds are it's the OMs house, explains so much. She was still lying to me when she contacted me a while back, making out as though she still lived with her friend in a different town.

Naturally all of the blame has been placed on me in the divorce papers, I've been made out to sound like an angry, jealous & controlling psychopath. I'm not sure whether to sign it or contest her reasoning, but that will just delay the process and cost more money in the end.

Words like "Intimidating" and "Emotional Blackmail" and "Jealous" appear throughout her statement. 

She wrote that I constantly checked up on her movements and that she felt necessarily monitored. I can only recall ever asking her where she was going when she was going out, and if she was going out drinking and staying at a friends, asking her to text me when she go home so I knew she'd made it home safely. That's normal, right?


----------



## Chaparral

If that's going into the public record, I would contest it come hell or high water.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> If that's going into the public record, I would contest it come hell or high water.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

Can you Google map the address?

Does the filing affect you in any way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

"Words like "Intimidating" and "Emotional Blackmail" and "Jealous" appear throughout her statement."

Yeah WWB.... you were such the a=hole weren't you 

so much so........ Boomerang wanted you back. The irony!

She thinks if you just want D, she can slam you on the way out

If it is public record there, it can possibly hinder you in a 

desired job, a future g/f may read it and think you are a 

control freak. Are there any assets being contested?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> "Words like "Intimidating" and "Emotional Blackmail" and "Jealous" appear throughout her statement."
> 
> Yeah WWB.... you were such the a=hole weren't you
> 
> so much so........ Boomerang wanted you back. The irony!
> 
> She thinks if you just want D, she can slam you on the way out
> 
> If it is public record there, it can possibly hinder you in a
> 
> desired job, a future g/f may read it and think you are a
> 
> control freak. Are there any assets being contested?


Can we do a Conrad and say "I'm not okay with this paperwork"
Just sayin


----------



## GotLifeBack

Chaparral said:


> If that's going into the public record, I would contest it come hell or high water.


I think I need to do some research and see what my options are. Part of me just wants it all over and finalised as soon as possible really.



> Can you Google map the address?
> 
> Does the filing affect you in any way?


I could Google the address, but I don't see what purpose it would serve?

The filing itself has not affected me emotionally, but the content of the papers did shock me a little, and I'm kinda p*ssed off .



> "Words like "Intimidating" and "Emotional Blackmail" and "Jealous" appear throughout her statement."
> 
> Yeah WWB.... you were such the a=hole weren't you
> 
> so much so........ Boomerang wanted you back. The irony!


Yeah, I was such an a$$hole she told me she wished she'd had children with me because I'd make a great father, too.

Such an a$$hole that she said "Everyday when I drive past your office, I always want to stop in and see you"

She's crazy :/.



> If it is public record there, it can possibly hinder you in a
> 
> desired job, a future g/f may read it and think you are a
> 
> control freak. Are there any assets being contested?


These things do concern me.

No assets are being contested, no money is involved or anything like that.


----------



## LongWalk

There is your answer: you don't want all those lies on a document that will follow you. You have two choices: approach her personally and request that she redo or amend it. Alternatively, you spend money on a lawyer. Horrible. 

Of course you can try route one before two.

She wrote all this crud because she is profoundly insecure. You are lucky to have gotten rid of her.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> There is your answer: you don't want all those lies on a document that will follow you. You have two choices: approach her personally and request that she redo or amend it. Alternatively, you spend money on a lawyer. Horrible.
> 
> Of course you can try route one before two.
> 
> She wrote all this crud because she is profoundly insecure. You are lucky to have gotten rid of her.


Indeed, she wrote the lies because she felt personally attacked at my rejection of her offer to reconcile. It's upsetting to her narcissistic ego.

I think I'm going to contact her and ask if she is able to amend what the document says. It's worth a shot. There must be a reason my gut tells me not to sign it as it is, so therefore I won't.

Some of the stuff she has put in there was true, but the lies need to be changed.


----------



## PBear

Only you can decide what you need to do about the statements made. You can ask her to amend them. If she doesn't,you'll have to decide if you'll take it to court to make your statement. Practically speaking, it's not likely to make a bit of difference to the outcome, I'd guess. The legal system rarely seems to care about infidity, much less jealousy and other unproven statements. You should probably talk to a lawyer in your area, though. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GotLifeBack

PBear said:


> Only you can decide what you need to do about the statements made. You can ask her to amend them. If she doesn't,you'll have to decide if you'll take it to court to make your statement. Practically speaking, it's not likely to make a bit of difference to the outcome, I'd guess. The legal system rarely seems to care about infidity, much less jealousy and other unproven statements. You should probably talk to a lawyer in your area, though.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've sent her a short message asking her to change it, but it's failed to deliver, indicating she's blocked our final remaining path of communication, or she's changed her number.

I guess I have her address now and could write to her, but I'm not sure I can be bothered and sending something to her and OMs house may be perceived as a form of harassment, especially by her.


----------



## movealong

WantWifeBack said:


> I've sent her a short message asking her to change it, but it's failed to deliver, indicating she's blocked our final remaining path of communication, or she's changed her number.
> 
> I guess I have her address now and could write to her, but I'm not sure I can be bothered and sending something to her and OMs house may be perceived as a form of harassment, especially by her.


She _really_ wants to have the last word, eh?

It is not harassment to negotiate the final divorce wording. And it may be that a cell tower was having issues when you tried to text. Give it at least two tries and then send a certified letter (or equivalent) with your requests.


----------



## bandit.45

Why can't your lawyer file a response citing adultery, mental anguish and emotional abuse? Worthless in the scheme of things but at least you will be able to rebut her lies.


----------



## Chuck71

if it is public record, it may not now but....... in future

if she wants to degrade you

take off the gloves, game on, treat her like you would a man

and yes "You are not down with paperwork...."


----------



## Chuck71

there was an old saying when I grew up

"if she puts herself in a man's position, treat her as one"

that was taken by many, sadly, as physical

was never meant as such.......full steam ahead


----------



## LongWalk

Agree with Chuck. Write her a registered letter, politely requesting that the grounds for divorce be simpler.

If she refuses, you can respond and state that she committed adultery. Let a judge rule.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## warlock07

I missed it but she wanted to reconcile and WWB rejected her ? Awesome!!


----------



## GotLifeBack

warlock07 said:


> I missed it but she wanted to reconcile and WWB rejected her ? Awesome!!


Haha, yeah that happened like a couple of months ago I think .

I spoke with her about D last night. 

She wrote a couple of things in the D papers that I disagree with, and rightly so. The first was that I:

"Displayed threatening and physically intimidating behaviour on various occasions"

I asked her wtf this meant, and her response was:

"You raised your voice sometimes when we were fighting, and remember that time 3 years ago when you got really mad and hit a wall?"

The other thing, which is even more laughable she accused me of

"Keeping track of her and conducting unnecessary surveillance"

Again, I asked wtf this meant.

Her response was:

"You used to ask me where I was going when I was going out, and if I was staying at a friends place and drinking you asked me to send you a message to let me know that I was home safe at the end of the night."

Apparently the above behaviour is controlling and jealous, whereas I always thought it was quite normal of a concerned and loving spouse, am I wrong here?

I believe there is an option on the D papers that I can sign to say that I disagree with her statement, but would like the divorce to go ahead anyway. I'm thinking this may be the best option.


----------



## LongWalk

If you ever seek a job that requires a thorough background check, her words might create a black mark. You could tell her that her opinion is valid as a subjective perception but might be too extreme.

Appeal to her better nature. Say that divorce is something that naturally hurts but you can remember the good times.

Give her a chance to think well of herself.

How did you get her phone?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## warlock07

WantWifeBack said:


> So I have re-established NC with STBXW.
> 
> Last night she told me she missed me and talking to me was confusing her feelings. I told her to stop talking to me and that there could be no happy outcome from this going any further.
> 
> This morning she messaged me again saying:
> 
> "WWB, I know we said goodbye last night, but can we please talk for one more day? Then I promise that will be it."
> 
> I responded with "We both know that's a bad idea, sorry."
> 
> She replied with "This f*cking sucks :-( I'm sorry, ignore me, I'm just having a bad day."
> 
> I responded with "Take care."
> 
> And that was that.
> 
> Was hoping last night would be the last I heard from her, but it wasn't. I'm now hoping today will be the last I heard from her. She'll be filing for D in less than a week, as this coming Saturday will mark our first and last wedding anniversary.
> 
> It has taken me an insane amount of strength to reject what could be the beginnings of something I wanted so desperately for so long, but I just don't see that I could ever trust her again. I don't want to live with that constant fear.


that must have stung real bad for her...and she is lashing out


----------



## GotLifeBack

warlock07 said:


> that must have stung real bad for her...and she is lashing out


Yeah it definitely upset her ego, she lashed out when I rejected her but I didn't bite.

From my research, I see that the divorce petition is not a public record, the actual decree absolute is, but that just states that the divorce is final and the date on which it was finalised. Nothing more than that.

As this is the case, I think I should be okay to sign the papers and disagree with her reasoning, for the sake of the record.


----------



## bandit.45

If it will free you of her insanity more quickly then sign it. Let her live with her lying self.


----------



## LongWalk

Just disagree and leave it at that.

You never have to have any form of intercourse from now on.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chuck71

add into it "no allegations proved, zero police reports"

let Boomerang sit at the table munching on a bagel and

stew over that. she seems to be the type to make a copy

of the accusations filed and post them on a site somewhere.

just be wary


----------



## GotLifeBack

Well guys, I signed it and filed.

In a couple of months, roughly, I should be free of Boomerang in every way possible.

In other news, things are progressing nicely between me and Miss V.


----------



## LongWalk

Update?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Update?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Hey,

It's been a while since I've updated. I haven't heard anything further from the courts regarding my divorce.

I finally passed my driving test and bought myself a car, which I'm waiting to pick up at the moment, should be ready in a few days! 

Also, myself and Miss V are now in an exclusive relationship that's going very well, we see each other at weekends. She's meeting my sister/parents this weekend.

That's about all that's going on at the moment, I'm hoping for more news regarding the divorce soon!


----------



## GotLifeBack

Time for a very quick update.

D process has been delayed due to the courts losing our paperwork, I have re-filed my half and am awaiting further updates from them.

Also, I find I seem to dream about Boomerang at least twice a week, but never in my dreams are we together again, which is a good sign I guess? Did many of you continue to dream about your STBX so long after separation?

Finally, things with me and Miss V are going well. 

Sorry for the brief update, I'm at work and pressed for time.


----------



## LongWalk

Lost paperwork? Sounds like the US tax authorities.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I sometimes still dream about Raider...they are not nightmares, but they do include her in them. Sometimes we are together as a couple, but I guess that's normal. In my case, we were together for 24 years. I think it's normal....but sometimes it hurts. I can't lie.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Lost paperwork? Sounds like the US tax authorities.


Of course you are not paying a refiling fee right?


----------



## Chuck71

I sometimes daydream about WC but the way it was many years ago.

I sometimes mirror our actions in comparison to characters in my 

book(s). No actual dreams...maybe it was due to already detaching

subconsciously beforehand 

Baby steps...... you are in the journey


----------



## angstire

I only dream about X2 every few months and it's a subconscious reaction to some interaction we've had (which happens only every few months via email). Your dreams of her will fade, it will just take time to continue detaching. If you're dreaming about her, your subconscious is still working through some things about her.

The challenge on the divorce paperwork and having to think front and center about the end of marriage could also be a strong trigger for the dreams. They're always tied to the real world, Neo.


----------



## Chuck71

sometimes I dream about being an ex husband to Rene Russo

and dream up scenarios of wild nights of passion,

Does that count?


----------



## jeffthechef

funny, I dream about the ex once a month or so, but there is zero sadness when I wake. I always remember shortly there after, "I am so f'ing happy to be away from that mess"


----------



## GotLifeBack

I'm never sad about dreaming of her, but I do wish I didn't dream of her, I'd rather dream of something good, than her.

We have had a few interactions lately regarding the lost D papers and so on (I didn't have to pay to re-file thankfully) and as angstire said, with everything coming to an end, maybe it's in the back of my mind. The frequency of the dreams has increased since filing.


----------



## Chuck71

it's the finality that a D will bring


----------



## Chaparral

I occasionally dream of a girl I had a ltr with over thirty years ago that ended because of infidelity. I actually find them amusing. They come and go and often include me being in college again,lol. In the dream I always realize I forgot to go to class and then I think, who cares, iv already graduated.

Once you move on and start dating, she just becomes someone you used to know.


----------



## angstire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY

Just somebody that you used to know!


----------



## GotLifeBack

So, still no further updates on divorce, however Boomerang's Step-Father contacted me over the weekend, he sent me a text saying.

"Hi WWB, STBXW's Step Father here. Do you want to meet for a beer on Sunday at about 1? I have something for you that I think will amuse you. Best regards, STBXW's Step Father."

I haven't heard from this guy in a year, but I was busy with Miss V at the weekend. Current girlfriend > Ex's parents.

I did get on well with the guy though so I responded saying.

"Hi STBXW's Step-Father, what's that? I hope you and STBXW's mum are well. I'm actually busy this weekend though."

He didn't respond, the next day he tried to call me, but I missed the call. I haven't called back, I'm not sure I can be bothered to drag the past up, even if it's via her parents. I can't imagine what it may be, but i'll be 99% sure it involves Boomerang somehow and I just don't want to waste the time or energy.

Any thoughts?

Also, the dreams of Boomerang are becoming less frequent it seems.


----------



## LongWalk

Of course it has to do with Boomy. I'd be curious, though. Only you know if she has the power to wound you again.

Perhaps she has searched long and hard for some way to say sorry and found something physical from the past would touch you sentimentally.


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Of course it has to do with Boomy. I'd be curious, though. Only you know if she has the power to wound you again.
> 
> Perhaps she has searched long and hard for some way to say sorry and found something physical from the past would touch you sentimentally.


I would imagine it does. Or perhaps she's unaware that her step-father has been in contact? I don't know, nor can I be bothered to find out  hehe.

I've deleted the message from him and ignored his missed call. I guess if it's important he'll either try again, or Boomerang will get in touch herself.


----------



## LongWalk

She may now feel you are the one and she cooked up some pretext to create an opening.

She does not have the wherewithal to approach you directly. Your alpha status is too high


----------



## Chuck71

I don't think it has anything to do with Boomerang. But... she will be 

brought up. Maybe she is wanting her step dad to run interference


----------



## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> She may now feel you are the one and she cooked up some pretext to create an opening.
> 
> She does not have the wherewithal to approach you directly. Your alpha status is too high


I doubt this somehow, I would have thought that if this were true, she would have come to me herself, for the drama if nothing else.



> I don't think it has anything to do with Boomerang. But... she will be
> 
> brought up. Maybe she is wanting her step dad to run interference


Maybe, but her step father was a decent guy, I always got on with him really well.


----------



## LongWalk

Well, maybe it has nothing to do with her. He has tickets to Manchester United.


----------



## GotLifeBack

Been a while since I updated here, I have been so busy!

Life is still good, still enjoying a good relationship with Miss V. 

Also I received my decree nisi about 4-5 weeks ago now, so I am expecting the decree absolute to arrive roughly on my birthday  best present ever.

Other than that I have no real updates to share.


----------



## LongWalk

Without kids your ex will just fade away.... leaving you with higher self esteem. She'll likely have lingering regrets because she was rejected.


----------



## GotLifeBack

That's true.

I haven't heard anything from Boomerang in a long time now, which I am happy about. Her step father still tries to make contact, but that opens a door back in to a part of my life I have no interest in any longer.


----------



## DayOne

Spent most of my morning reading through your thread. Glad things have worked out for you. :smthumbup:


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Without kids your ex will just fade away.... leaving you with higher self esteem. She'll likely have lingering regrets because she was rejected.


fade away as what she actually was..... a bad fart


----------



## LongWalk

If she is fishing through her stepdad, she could take the trouble to make contact directly.


----------



## LongWalk

From DayOne's latest post:



> But work is kinda quiet, so browsed and found myself in the *Separated from Wife - Really want her back*. thread, where i found a lot of inspiration. Copied out a lot of quotes that i'll be adding to my kitchen gallery.
> 
> eg: (credit to the posters below for some great reading)
> 
> 
> _What I am learning from my reading is that I'm a Nice Guy, I'm a codependent. That I focus on others instead of myself by habit, not by nature. I always thought of myself as "good natured" but I'm just a doormat. I'm learning that I have little confidence and little self-respect, and that's why I allow myself to be treated the way I have been, and that's why I still feel what I do._
> 
> _I want to find my authentic self, I have memories of him, I liked that guy. Now, where to find him? I feel kind of like I am finding him, but days like today, he's nowhere to be seen again._
> _
> Because she's blocking your view._
> 
> _I truly hate who I was during the marriage; with a passion. I always made an excuse for who I was and what I wanted to do (nothing for myself - therefore becoming a less productive husband and father).
> I didn't take the initiative to better myself on a daily basis; convinced that being the stagnant ME was the "right" way to live.
> I sank and sank - never realizing that there was something wrong... It took "this" to realize that there were major issues with the way I conducted myself, who I was, and accepting that there is work to be done.
> I wasn't true to myself - how could be truthful to anyone else. Damn it all._
> 
> _If you lose someone, they will keep living their lives without you and you'll just be hurting yourself even more. So stop obsessing over them and obsess over yourself. If you want them to ever want to be with you after leaving you, you'll need to become someone they want to be with. Don't do it just for that purpose, either. Do it for yourself, because you don't need someone who doesn't want you right now..
> /I]
> I think when you reach that point where you realize it's the idea of her and not necessarily her that you love, that's a turning point. Think, really think, do you love her or do you love the idea of her and what things used to be? That idea you are thinking about, like you said, doesn't have to be with her but it's much easier to imagine it because it might seem just an arm's length away to recapture that. Man I know life would be so much easier for me right now too if that would happen, but is it the right thing and should I dwell on it?
> 
> Remember too when we talked about holding onto hope when you know it's only hurtful in the end? I think now is the time to pull your boot straps up and soldier on with self confidence and NOT running back to her just because you think she's going to change or she throws you a bone. I'm not saying that can't happen eventually but now is not the time in my opinion. When she's able to show a real change, displayed by consistency, then you might want to entertain thoughts of getting back together if you believe that's the right thing to do._


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## GotLifeBack

Really pleased this thread is helping other people! 

I know everyone will get to a good point in life again some day!


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## Chuck71

a great thread will get more hits after it is completed than it did during it's "life"


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## DayOne

WantWifeBack said:


> Really pleased this thread is helping other people!
> 
> I know everyone will get to a good point in life again some day!


Your thread is inspiring. :smthumbup:


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## Chuck71

I am VERY proud of WWB. He seemed to almost "break free" a few times but was pulled

back in. But you could see in his posts, maybe a couple weeks before

he actually did it... he was accomplishing a metamorphosis

Every time I would check his updates, I kept thinking of that book.

Great read BTW.


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## LongWalk

I found WWB's thread inspiring because a person who felt he had low self esteem was very invested in his marriage and fought hard to survive its casual destruction. I think everyone can identify with great unrequited love. His ex did not deserve him but it took his survival and growth to really demonstrate this.

Although we will never know if ex stepdad-in-law was fishing for her, it seems that she realized she hadn't gained by being a quitter. 

WWB is probably a much tougher person in general. Not less kind or compassionate, but definitely saying yes to please people when it is the wrong thing to do.


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## GotLifeBack

Hey,

Just checking in quickly.

Still no real updates regarding the divorce. Would have expected to have received the decree absolute by now, as it's been about 10 weeks since I received the decree nisi.

I did receive some paperwork around my birthday saying the divorce had gone before the judge and it could be finalised, and that the decree absolute has to be applied for. I'm hoping to receive it soon.

Other than that, things are generally good in life. Still enjoying a healthy relationship with Miss V, still hitting the gym hard and loving it too.

Hope everyone's all good!


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## Chuck71

don't forget to get your cap n gown WWB, you have graduated!!!


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## warlock07

I still am curious about what the SFIL had to say.


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## LongWalk

He was helping STBX fish.

Maybe she is now sorry and wants him back but the fish ain't biting.


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## GotLifeBack

warlock07 said:


> I still am curious about what the SFIL had to say.


I was curious for a day or two, so I got to 50k, thought about it for a couple of days before I acted.

In that couple of days I realised that regardless of SFIL's intent, regardless of whether it was connected to Boomerang or not, it would still open a path to her, or a connection by association. Ultimately it was a path back in to the past, or a semblance of the past and I didn't want to take it. 

So I decided to not allow myself to be curious. I think it was for the best.


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## Chuck71

WantWifeBack said:


> I was curious for a day or two, so I got to 50k, thought about it for a couple of days before I acted.
> 
> In that couple of days I realised that regardless of SFIL's intent, regardless of whether it was connected to Boomerang or not, it would still open a path to her, or a connection by association. Ultimately it was a path back in to the past, or a semblance of the past and I didn't want to take it.
> 
> So I decided to not allow myself to be curious. I think it was for the best.


such a far cry from about 18 months ago huh? if you ever doubt yourself again

re-read this post.


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## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> such a far cry from about 18 months ago huh? if you ever doubt yourself again
> 
> re-read this post.


Sometimes I re-read random pages from the thread, it amazes me how different I was, or how different some of my posts sounded in the earlier days.

When I posted for the first time, I had no confidence, no self-respect, I was miserable. It's quite astounding how I can see the differences, just be reading a thread. The real-world differences are hugely noticeable too.


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## LongWalk

Ironic that the man whom your WW chose to marry changed so much. She perhaps sensed that, hence the desire to reconcile.

As to STBXFIL's fishing, your analysis about the contact having a ulterior motive. It is also possible that your ex was not thriving and her own parents saw you as a positive force in her life. They may have been trying to create some opening for reconciliation based on what they perceived as her best interests.


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## Chuck71

LW...that post is very familiar. UG's parents liked me a lot. Her dad took me in

as a son....even though he would pi$$ me off sometimes. He was blunt and

to the point...kinda like how pop was. Pop was just several standard 

deviations smarter. Her dad used the Corvette as an olive branch with me, in the end.

I told him he is welcome to stop by any time...and he is. I am in no way "Yoda"

but more Luke in Episode VI. I sense a visit from him. And am aware of how

the conversation would go. UG's parents also saw me as a positive force in her life. 

But....until then....my needs are being met by an

older woman who is bring an A+ game.


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## LongWalk

Wonder how Dadof2 is doing.

WWB had no kids. Made the pain simple.


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## Chuck71

so did Window Cork. Plus her son, even though I raised him, surrendered 

to thugs and drugs. A nice drink or joint is nice but when it is the all consuming

part of your life....you destroy yourself from within.


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## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> Wonder how Dadof2 is doing.
> 
> WWB had no kids. Made the pain simple.


So glad I didn't have any kids with Boomerang. It would have made the whole situation far far worse. Also the outcome may have been entirely different, and I like this outcome.


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## LongWalk

And she maybe wishing that she had a little WWB, which would have made everything perfect and saved her from being distracted by other males. Now you are the one who got away. Nice.

The fact that you wanted her back for so long made you more desirable. Great that when she looked for WWB cake it was gone. Not even a crumb remains.


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## GotLifeBack

LongWalk said:


> And she maybe wishing that she had a little WWB, which would have made everything perfect and saved her from being distracted by other males. Now you are the one who got away. Nice.
> 
> The fact that you wanted her back for so long made you more desirable. Great that when she looked for WWB cake it was gone. Not even a crumb remains.


She told me she regretted not having children with me back in May when she wanted to R. I think I responded saying that given our situation, I would have regretted having children with her and I was happy that I didn't. I didn't say it out of spite, it was purely just blunt truth.

I don't know how she feels about the divorce etc now, I don't really care to know. My focus moved from her a long time ago.


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## GotLifeBack

Well guys, I haven't had time to update as I've been so busy with family things over the holidays, but my divorce was finalised on the 23rd of December. I received the news on the 24th, best Christmas gift Boomerang ever gave me. :smthumbup:


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## happy as a clam

FREEDOM!! :smthumbup:

Good news, WWB... Adios, Boomerang!


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## LongWalk

When she got the notice in the mail she probably wished she could see you one more time. Someday you will run into her on the street or in a store. You'll be able to smile because it won't matter.


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## GotLifeBack

happy as a clam said:


> FREEDOM!! :smthumbup:
> 
> Good news, WWB... Adios, Boomerang!


Freedom indeed!

It'd be more fitting to say Au Revoir, Boomerang, as her OM is French 



> When she got the notice in the mail she probably wished she could see you one more time. Someday you will run into her on the street or in a store. You'll be able to smile because it won't matter.


Maybe, maybe not. It's not important anymore 

Happy to be free of any form of connection to her though!


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## Chuck71

Boomerang will have as many guys as a pee trough at halftime of a Notre Dame home game.

Happiness....maybe....yet fleeting. You're not part of that drama any longer.

I do hope you post in LaD and DO NOT nuke this thread.


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## GotLifeBack

Chuck71 said:


> Boomerang will have as many guys as a pee trough at halftime of a Notre Dame home game.
> 
> Happiness....maybe....yet fleeting. You're not part of that drama any longer.
> 
> I do hope you post in LaD and DO NOT nuke this thread.


The thread will remain - it helps me to see how far I've come. Sometimes I need that.

Happy to be free of that drama, her life will be one wreck after another.


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## Chuck71

I hope WWB deletes post #1767.....really?


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## GusPolinski

Chuck71 said:


> I hope WWB deletes post #1767.....really?


Spammer. He/she/it has posted the same thing on a number of threads.


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## LongWalk

WWB,

Hope you're having a good summer.


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## GotLifeBack

Hey,

Been a very long time since I posted here, just thought I'd check in.

I did have a good summer thanks LW, it was eventful. I moved in to a house with my girlfriend, things are pretty serious and I couldn't be happier. 

I hope everyone here is keeping well!


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## Chuck71

WantWifeBack said:


> Hey,
> 
> Been a very long time since I posted here, just thought I'd check in.
> 
> I did have a good summer thanks LW, it was eventful. I moved in to a house with my girlfriend, things are pretty serious and I couldn't be happier.
> 
> I hope everyone here is keeping well!


Remember what you learned.......... I'd much rather see you back here giving advice 

than asking for it. 

I do recommend your thread to others often..... so they can see the "before" and "after"


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## LongWalk

Agree with Chuck.


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## Lilac23

WantWifeBack said:


> This Saturday we are sorting out our finances and going for coffee afterwards, so she can explain why it is that she can't get back together with me. After this, I will be going in to complete no contact.
> 
> I know words are cheap, but her actions since we split do suggest she still loves me. Even though we are supposed to be in no contact at the moment, she has text me every day. When we had separated but were still seeing each other for her to move her stuff out of the house and so on, we were affectionate and sometimes sexual. She is still attracted to me. I have seen the love in the way she has looked at me at times.


Before anyone tells me, I know this is an old thread! But hadn't she just texted you that she was laying in bed with a new dude?


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## GotLifeBack

5 year necro bump, but I came back to post in the LAD forum.

For those interested it has complete closure of my journey through divorce:

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/members/wantwifeback.html#/topics/434279


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