# Help Me Save My Marriage



## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm new here (as I suspect lots are in this section) and looking for some advice on how I can save my marriage.

So, the background. We met each other almost 11 years ago now when she was 18 and I was 7 years older than her. She lived with her parents very close to me and about 3 months after meeting we started dating. I wasn't very experienced with relationships but I was happy and she was too, we spent lots of time together going out, staying in and generally in each others company. We had a fantastic holiday together where I think she was a little disappointed that I didn't propose, so I knew things were going well. About a year later I got talking to someone at work, through email and text message. She was older than me and I think interested in me, and although I enjoyed talking I never wanted it to go any further than that. Around 6 months later my wife to be found some text messages on my phone and confronted me, I didn't really have an answer for her but the feelings that I had then really hit me hard, the relationship I was in gave me everything I could ever wish for so why on earth was I jeopardising what I had for something that I just a plastic feeling? I've never ever had any contact from that person again, the following month I proposed and then got married a year later.

Almost 5 years later and now we have 2 kids, one 3 years old and the other soon to be 2 years old. I thought everything was good in our relationship, we were focussed on bringing our kids up and our careers were starting to really take off. Every so often we had a bit of a bust up where my wife confronted me and wasn't happy with the intimate side of our relationship, how she always made the first move and I was a taker not a giver. This changed me temporarily but I fell back into my old ways and nothing was said until a number of months later. I guess over the years this has come up 5 or 6 times, and I'm not sure I can explain why I didn't put more into permanently changing myself.

Then in April this year my wife sat me down and started to talk about how she felt we were drifting apart, how things weren't right as there wasn't anything between us. She asked me what there was for us when the kids left, what we shared, and in all honesty I was so stunned by what was going on I struggled for an answer. A few days later it came around again, and again left me in tears. We then went on a holiday with her family (who were completely unaware of this at the time) and had a great time, but then a few weeks after we got back it came up again, and this time I was told that there was someone else. Nothing physical but she had feelings for someone else that she worked with, and had been going on since before Xmas, at a time when I was really busy with my work. We had a counselling session and off the back of that and some great weekends as a family, my wife said that we should put that behind us, and sort things out. We would try to be closer intimately, I would try to give her more time to herself (I used to play golf once every 2 weeks leaving her with the kids and not repaying the favour), and generally treat her better. 

3 months later and it's come up again, this time more seriously. She doesn't think that we've made progress (we had sex more frequently but only for the first month or so, then after a night where she told me it was her week off, we stopped). She was happy that I was giving her more time now but she just didn't feel like she loved me enough. She loves me as a Daddy, but not as a husband. Then the real kicker - the affair she had earlier in the year (around 3 weeks before this first came up) was physical. Only once on a business trip, but still. She says that is behind her now and while she doesn't want to leave me for him, it's opened her eyes to how she thinks she should feel for someone.

I don't really know what to do from here. We have a counselling session tomorrow night but I fear that we are going for different reasons - me to try and mend things and her to find the most amicable way of splitting. I appreciate that we haven't spent as much time on us as we should have done, but I keep thinking that with our lives how they are, we've been distracted from that. I will do ANYTHING to get us back on track, I love her so much, she is my angel and my champion, but she seems to be be putting up a mental barrier now and either trying to drive us apart of prevent us from carrying on. It pains me to say it but only now I realise that we weren't making much time for us in amongst everything else that we did.

So much of our lives together is so good, the kids, our jobs, our friends and family etc I know the core needs work but truly believe that we can work on it together and solve it. I'm not sure she believes this and it scares me so much.

We still live and sleep together although with next to no physical contact, home life is still great we are so on the same page. Everything I do is focussed towards keeping her happy and letting her enjoy life, but I so want that life to be with me.

I've spoken to her Mum a couple of times but not sure my wife has spoken to her properly, she knows of the problems and other person but not of the physical affair. I can't speak to my family as they think so highly of my wife and I don't want that reputation to be tarnished.

Please give me some advice on what to do. I feel so alone and on a knife-edge, but knowing that this situation is all but out of my hands. I never once thought in a million years that we would be in this situation, we have friends and acquaintances that seem to be in much worse places than us yet we are the ones struggling. I'm having difficulty trying to come to terms with it and some evenings once she's gone to bed I'm in tears trying to understand what's going on.

Thanks for listening to me.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sorry you're here.

First things first....You have to recognize the fact that you are completely blameless for your wife's affair. She is 100% responsible for that. While you do share responsibility for some of the problems in the marriage, she is the one who sought gratification outside of the marriage, putting the marriage, the family and you in jeporady.

Next, you need to get yourself tested for STDs. Even if she said they used protection, that may be a lie (cheaters tend to lie alot). If she said they used protection, then you can be sure that this hook-up didn't "just happen" it was planned in advance.

You also need to find out about the other man. Is he married? Does he have a GF? Who is he? Where does he live? As you will find out here, the best course to stop an affair is to expose it to the light of day. Right now your wife is involved in the fog of the affair. Everything seems better to her because she's living in a fantasy world that doesn't involve 2 small children, a husband and bills. She's got that giddy "just fallen in love" feelin right now.

Oh, by the way, if she said it was only once, it probably was more like 4 times. Again, standard cheater talk to try and minimize the affair.

You should ask the moderators to move this to the coping With Infidelity section too. You'll get tons of great advice there.

Good luck, hang in there and do lots of reading in the CWI section


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks for the reply.

I know the other guy well, we've been friends for some time. He was married with 1 child although has recently been kicked out, seems their marriage was having problems too. I see him occasionally but haven't approached him yet about this, my wife says that he's not the reason this has happened, but that did open her eyes to how she wants to feel about someone.

I agree with the "fog" comment as well, I read this post and it was all too familiar.

The Affair Fog

I think you're spot on, she sees him without our marriage getting in the way and it's probably all too easy then. I've forwarded that link to her as well (probably the wrong thing to do but hey, it might ring some bells).

Can any mods move this please if they feel it's in the wrong section?


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Progress last night. Had a decent night in each others company although she had a lot of work to do, but just before going to bed she sat down and we started talking. I'd sent her the above link earlier and she said she'd read it millions of times and was worried that she wasn't caring for others. I told her that wasn't why I sent it to her, it was the bit about finding someone else in an environment without home life and everything being rosy that I was referring to.

Anyway, she ended up in big tears went up to bed and asked for a cuddle, I laid there and she cried some more. After she said she was going to sleep I then heard her crying some more so went back (I usually stay up after she's gone to bed), comforted her some more, she asked if we could spend Thursday together.

Things seemed normal again this morning, I even got a kiss before going to work which is the first time for a while. Feeling quite positive but still scared going into the counselling session tonight. If anyone has any further advice then it'd be appreciated.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> Progress last night. Had a decent night in each others company although she had a lot of work to do, but just before going to bed she sat down and we started talking. I'd sent her the above link earlier and she said she'd read it millions of times and was worried that she wasn't caring for others. I told her that wasn't why I sent it to her, it was the bit about finding someone else in an environment without home life and everything being rosy that I was referring to.
> 
> Anyway, she ended up in big tears went up to bed and asked for a cuddle, I laid there and she cried some more. After she said she was going to sleep I then heard her crying some more so went back (I usually stay up after she's gone to bed), comforted her some more, she asked if we could spend Thursday together.
> 
> Things seemed normal again this morning, I even got a kiss before going to work which is the first time for a while. Feeling quite positive but still scared going into the counselling session tonight. If anyone has any further advice then it'd be appreciated.


Any update?


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks for the concern, it's appreciated.

We spent last Thursday together, everything seemed good, we spent a lot of time together both in and out of the bedroom and both had a really nice day. I think it showed us both that we do have something there, we just need to make sure we keep it at the fore and don't let it get consumed by all the other things in our life.

So, everything seems to have reverted to being good again, we are trying to make things better between us. From my perspective things are good, but I worry that we have not changed things enough to stop it all happening again. This time we are talking a lot more so I believe that it won't be left too long if anything is wrong.

We had a counselling session last week and weren't too impressed. We were asked about why we were attracted to each other when we first met, and that sort of stuff. Granted that's the background stuff that's needed but we want action points to make things good again. We actually had a discussion in the car afterwards for 15 minutes and I think we got a lot more out of that - just about talking more and spending more time with each other. That being said my wife has been super busy this week so we've not had a lot of time to do that. Another counselling session tonight though and maybe a talk afterwards as well, I want to know how she's feeling about this.

The other issue is of course the affair, it's something that hasn't really come up again but it still hurts when I think about it. I wonder whether I should be feeling worse than I am though, and maybe more reluctant to try and move forward, and whether that highlights something about us ? He is still in contact with my wife (they work together) and keeps asking her what's going on, she's telling him she's committed to me and her marriage and trying to work things out. At this point you're all thinking hang on - working late, working with him, this doesn't look good. I spoke to her a couple of times last night and was emailing her work email address, she took a photo at work (or her dinner at her desk) and also I know for certain that she's actively looking for another job. If she does move (and I think she will - she's almost handed her notice in without finding another role) then I'll talk to her about writing him a letter of no contact.

I really believe now that we were a victim of routine - we were at a point in our lives where we were comfortable with and just ran with it. When something new and different presented itself to her, she went with it, and I think that experience has driven her to believe that she wants that sort of thing from us.

I'll keep giving updates as we go. We're off on holiday on Friday with some good friends for a week, so we'll be working on us together then. Let's hope we can move forward.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Have her send the NC letter to him NOW! Make sure he gets it tomorrow at the latest!

Also, if your wife is truly committed to fixing this she should leave the job NOW.

Keep up with the counseling. Sounds as if she (and you) may be rug sweeping the issue!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, what are you doing? Your wife had an emotional affair (EA) and has at least had sex with the other man once. This OM happens to be one of your friends. And so far your reaction to all this was to comfort your wife because she is hurting??? You're minimizing this whole thing and sweeping it under the rug. I get it that you want everything to go back to the way it used to be, but avoiding the elephant in the room will not help.

Did you ever stop to consider the reason that your friend was having marital problems was because of your wife? You need to talk to the wife of this man that wronged you and see what she knows. Most likely she not only knows about the affair between her husband and your wife, she probably knows the depth of this affair. Compare notes.

As suggested by others, ask a mod to move this to the CWI forum. It will help you.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@Toffer

The difficulty with the NC letter is that they work together and hence have to have some degree of communication even if it's in a work capacity. As for leaving the job right now, you mean risk that she finds something else before her notice period is up? She has been with the job for 10 years now, I don't think it's something she will find easy just to walk away from and with commitments like mortgage and childcare, we can't afford to live on one income. I'll talk to her and see what she thinks.

@Plan 9
I think you've misinterpreted what I've said (quite possibly I've said it wrong). I think what happened has highlighted something that has fallen behind in our relationship because of our other commitments, but I do think it's something we have and can rediscover. I'm not sure which bit you take as me comforting her, what I've been doing is trying to convince her that we can work through this and ensure she doesn't throw it all away before we've had a chance to work on it together.

The other guy was having marital problems well before my wife came into it, in fact I think he confided in her because they were good friends and that led to this situation. I'd feel uncomfortable talking to the other wife as I don't believe that my wife would lie to me about what's happened - and I'm pretty sure that's not me being naive.

How do I ask anyone to move it? I mentioned it in the thread and nothing happened, if I need to PM someone then let me know who please.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> @Toffer
> 
> The difficulty with the NC letter is that they work together and hence have to have some degree of communication even if it's in a work capacity. As for leaving the job right now, you mean risk that she finds something else before her notice period is up? She has been with the job for 10 years now, I don't think it's something she will find easy just to walk away from and with commitments like mortgage and childcare, we can't afford to live on one income. I'll talk to her and see what she thinks.
> 
> ...


My conclusion was based on this post:



> Progress last night. Had a decent night in each others company although she had a lot of work to do, but just before going to bed she sat down and we started talking. I'd sent her the above link earlier and she said she'd read it millions of times and was worried that she wasn't caring for others. I told her that wasn't why I sent it to her, it was the bit about finding someone else in an environment without home life and everything being rosy that I was referring to.
> 
> *Anyway, she ended up in big tears went up to bed and asked for a cuddle, I laid there and she cried some more. After she said she was going to sleep I then heard her crying some more so went back (I usually stay up after she's gone to bed), comforted her some more, she asked if we could spend Thursday together.*
> 
> Things seemed normal again this morning, I even got a kiss before going to work which is the first time for a while. Feeling quite positive but still scared going into the counselling session tonight. If anyone has any further advice then it'd be appreciated.


In a subsequent post you did acknowledge in a brief paragraph that you are worried that things won't change for the better if you don't acknowledge what has went wrong in the past. IMO, maybe a touch of pining for the old days, but I did miss that and apologize for accusing you of rug sweeping. However, I don't think you should coddle your wife as much as you have been Cuddles and comforting her because of the guilt she feels is not the correct approach. IMO, you almost have to be a little "cruel" and twist the knife a little so that she takes full ownership of what she has done and what she has put you through. She needs to build empathy for what you went through and helping her to feel remorse for what she did to you is exactly what she needs to feel. Quote I referred to in this paragraph below.



> So, everything seems to have reverted to being good again, we are trying to make things better between us. From my perspective things are good, but I worry that we have not changed things enough to stop it all happening again. This time we are talking a lot more so I believe that it won't be left too long if anything is wrong.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

First and foremost, the only "victim of routine" here is you.

She was bored. She had (is having) and affair and your consoling and comfortaing her. WTH?

She should be on her kness begging for forgiveness (if she still wants the marriage) NOT continuing to see him every day.

The two of you are rugsweeping the whole event and while I may be wrong, I believe that she and the OM have either gone underground or are laying low for a while.

INVESTIGATE!


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi again

Update from the past few weeks. I may type stuff that I've already put so bear with me.

My 2nd update I think it was I mentioned that she'd read about the affair fog and that hit really hit a nerve with her, the next day she spent with her Mum (she doesn't work Wednesdays) and said that again it was big tears talking about it. I got a couple of really nice emails and we had a day off together which was awesome. She said that we'd continue to talk and work on us.

Everything seemed to be going ok from then until 7 Sep, there was nothing niceably going wrong with our relationship. On the 7th we went on holiday as a 4 with some really good friends, and had a fab time. I got one email from her that thanked me for everything that I'd done with her, and for holding on and for giving her another chance. I really thought we had cracked it.

This lasted until last Wednesday, when I noticed things had gone a bit off again - not so much kissing etc. It all came to a head last night when she said that even though things between us were progressing as we were talking and changing things, she can't get away from the feeling she has for this other person. It seems not that everything between us is good, but she feels something more for this other person that she doesn't think she can feel for me. She says that when we met, fell in love and got married, it was her heart and head that made that decision, but now with this other man she feels that her soul connects as well. I'm not sure what this means and how you can define that, but I'm back in that bad place again where I feel everything is about to go wrong.

Am I being naive to think she's still in the affair fog ? She says that even though she's seen very little of him (they work together still), she still thinks about him a lot and loves him. I'm holding on to the fact that there are reminders about them all the time, and that time apart will reduce that feeling, but I don't know whether I'm just fighting to keep her.

At the moment, we have a counselling session on Wednesday night and I desperately need something to happen otherwise I feel it'll all be over. How can I make her see that she already has everything she wants, and she's risking throwing it all away for something that (hopefully) is just a passing feeling? I'll do anything to hold on to this relationship, I've tried to think that I could find someone else but I know that I couldn't be with anyone else like I'm with her.

And before anyone says, I'm not ignoring what has happened physically between her and the other man, but I don't think trying to address that now is going to help - in the short term I need her to see that a future with me is what she truly wants and then we can address other things further down the line.

Thanks


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

In response to the last comment, I'm sure that she has been honest with me and that they are not seeing each other. I've asked her multiple times if the physical affair recurred but she maintains that it hasn't and I believe her.

I don't think she will be on her knees because at the moment, she thinks that she loves this other person more than me. I have to find some way to stop that before it's too late.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The option of this other man has to be taken off the table, by you.
If that does not happen (even if she is not cheating currently which she nearly surely is), she will always be waffling back and forth.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

How do I go about achieving that ?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> How do I go about achieving that ?


You need to expose the affair to all, family, friends, superiors at their work and his family too. He is a cad that is perusing a married woman, even after she told him she was trying to work on her marriage. You allowed contact between them while you tried to reconcile and he continued to woo her. Your efforts were thwarted because of the contact at work. Maybe your not to late, but if you don't have the stomach to take strong actions you will have no chance at all. Do not fear taking action, you have nothing to lose, she is already gone.

Contact a moderator and have your thread move to CWI area. There you will get direction from those who have walked in your shoes. Good luck.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

How is exposing the affair going to help? I've always thought that we would be able to work through this and that I didn't want my family and friends thinking badly of her if we work things out, but if there is a good reason for doing this then please tell me. I don't want to do something if it is going to push her further away.

How can I prevent contact if they work together? Even if she hands in her notice she has a 3 month notice period. I'm 99% sure that distance between them will help but I don't see any way of doing this.

I don't know how to find a moderator, I can't find any list of them on the site. I'd love to move the thread so if someone can tell me how to do this it'd be appreciated.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

The contact at work needs to end - by whatever means neccessary. She will not be able to get her head straight while seeing him everyday. Every day she sees him at work is another chance of them getting back together - both emotionally and physically. 

If she is under legal obligation to provide 3 months notice to her company - can she transfer to a different department? Can she transfer to a different office? While I appreciate the financial pressure - upkeeping the house will be negligible if this all ends in divorce. If they aren't willing to give her an opportunity to get away from him without her providing a reason - she might need to provide the reason, and thus "expose" the affair to her supervisor or HR. 

She needs to get away from him, period.

Also - if you expose the affair to his wife - perhaps the problem will be solved because she'll pressure him to quit.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'll talk to her tonight about her work, but I agree that needs to change. She might be able to transfer.

I've come to the same conclusion about money, if we have to dip into savings then so be it.

Not a lot I can do about his marriage, it's already ended as far as I know and he's been told to move out. Is there any value in talking to his wife and seeing if she can work on them in the same way I'm trying to work on us ?

And once again, if anyone can find a moderator then please let me know so this thread can be moved. I can't find any lists on who is a moderator on here


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I see Leahdorus is online now. Send a PM with your request, 

Here is a read and link for you, consider it well, it will help you. 
No More Mr. Nice Guy


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

> The other guy was having marital problems well before my wife came into it, in fact I think he confided in her because they were good friends and that led to this situation. I'd feel uncomfortable talking to the other wife as I don't believe that my wife would lie to me about what's happened - and I'm pretty sure that's not me being naive.
> 
> 
> > Professional men at work don't discuss their marital problems with female co-workers unless they are grooming them for an affair. I see you making excuses for your wife's affair. Your marital problems which don't seem that bad (routine, etc.) have nothing to do with her affair.
> ...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> I'll talk to her tonight about her work, but I agree that needs to change. She might be able to transfer.
> 
> I've come to the same conclusion about money, if we have to dip into savings then so be it.
> 
> ...


I'm not understanding you. Are you going fight for your wife or are you going to let that cad have her?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She needs to quit her job.

Everytime she goes to work those feeling for OM will come back.

Can't you see the pattern.

*not at work things are good

* at work things are bad

Is your marriage really worth the pay check that she brings in. I presonaly would rather live in my car with my family then go thru the crap I went thru 2-1-2 years ago. Its just not worth it. 

She is so close to falling off the fence and into the other mans arms its crazy. 

Beside expose the affair to her employer, they may make her leave the OM/ her job.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

It is not the affair fog. It is the affair itself. I'm guessing that they had a mini-breakup when she confessed to you during this period while minimizing as much as she can. And now they reconnected and reconciled again. And they had sex more than once. Do you know who this guy and is he married ? Is he a co-worker ?

You need to start snooping on her. You cannot trsut the cheater to give you the whole truth and you need to confirm it yourslef. Get a keylogger on the home computer. If she has an iphone or a smartphone, you can retrieve the deleted texts. Check her phone records if you have a joint account. Verify her where about and VAR her car. You just cannot trust what she says right now. And you need the truth to make an informed, proper decision without any regrets.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> She says that when we met, fell in love and got married, it was her heart and head that made that decision, but now with this other man she feels that her soul connects as well. I'm not sure what this means
> 
> Thanks


It means you're history. When a woman is telling you she loves you like a daddy and not a lover and her "soul mate" is another guy, get your head out of your azz.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@anchorwatch I'm not sure which of my points that your comment refers to, sorry.

@the guy Completely agree with everything you say.

@warlock07 yes I know the guy and he was a friend, he is married but his relationship has also hit the blocks, his wife sent him to counselling on his own saying he needed to resolve the problems. It seems that hasn't got anywhere and I think she's now chucked him out.

She doesn't use the home computer, only her Blackberry. She uses it for Facebook and email, Ill have a look if I can but I don't expect there to be anything on there as I still trust what she says. Naive maybe but shes always been very honest and her family is very much so.

We just had a chat here as she's gone out this evening with friends, she said that she doesn't think I understand the problems, while 99.9% of the time everything between us is good, and she has feelings for me, she has stronger feelings for this other guy and she says she can't ignore those. When I challenged her that outside an environment where they have contact, or in 5 years times would that be the same, she said she doesn't know. Not quite sure where that leaves me!


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

im always amazed by these posts. if i found out my wife had a affair that would be the end of the marriage right there.
i wouldnt discuss it, i wouldnt go to any counseling. i would just end it.
something i would just totally refuse to accept, or deal with. And i wouldnt care about why, or what her problems were. Or any sob story. I sure wouldnt compromise on it or give it some type of discussion. i would just want her gone and the marriage done and over.. 
:scratchhead:


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> He is still in contact with my wife (they work together) and keeps asking her what's going on, she's telling him she's committed to me and her marriage and trying to work things out. At this point you're all thinking hang on - working late, working with him, this doesn't look good.


The affair never ended. Your wife is a cake eater. The Unified Theory of Cake

Every time she starts bleating about how the other man makes her feel and how deficient you are, that's your cue to do what I call the Humiliating Dance of Pick Me The Humiliating Dance of

She wants to be fought over, made central -- it's all narcissism.

I have a hard time working myself into my usual lather about cheaters and cake, however, because you just don't seem to really be that deeply invested. What strikes me about your story is how "meh" you are, from the beginning of the marriage, to the "friend" of yours cheating with your wife. You strike me as kind of passive. I believe you are hurt and you want to save your marriage, but you don't seem angry or devastated, or even broadsided by this. Am I wrong? 

You need to go on the offensive. No one wins the humiliation dance. The game is rigged. You have to have a vision of the marriage you WANT -- passion, commitment, honesty -- and you need to enforce your boundaries -- no contact with the OM, expose the affair, she quits the job. The best thing you can do now is get STRONG and project that strength. That you will not tolerate this crap. And you want better, demand better, and hope she's in with you. 

From where I sit, she keeps upping the ante, trying to goad you into competing for her.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@bribrius I guess we think differently then. I believe my wife thinks that too to some degree, that because it happened then we shouldn't be together. I'm prepared to learn from mistakes and use it to better ourselves.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, I'm sure you understand the concept of what a legend is all about. There is a significant difference between the legends we have about great historical figures vs what they were like in real life when they were alive. Right now, your wife is having you compete with a legend. She knows you as a flesh and blood human; however, the OM is more of an idea or concept. She doesn't know the real OM and all of his faults. You can't compete against an idea.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@chumplady Sadly, a lot of that rings true. I am a passive person, and I am hurt about this, and I want to save my marriage. But I never see the point in getting angry, I'm just not someone who does that.

Can you tell me how going on the offensive will help? Im not saying its not the right thing for me, but if I demand these things then I could increase the risk of losing her, right? I guess the response to that will be what do I have to lose


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@Plan 9 Isnt that what I need her to see? I think that's the mistake she's making, she can only see good things on the outside, not the complete picture.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Well your current strategy isn't working for you. 

You have to risk losing your marriage (which seems pretty lost right now) in order to save it, IF it can be saved. You only get to control YOURSELF. You cannot control her.

So that means defending your boundaries. You can do that with love. I don't want to share you, I love you, but I cannot stay in a marriage in which I am disrespected and cheated on. 

You must do NC, quit that job (whatever your list is) -- and I will be in this with you. But if you do not, then I file for divorce.

You're much more attractive operating from a position of strength. But this is NOT to win the cheater back. This comes from within. You truly need to be fed up with being treated this way. It does need to make you angry. You DO need to have a vision of a better marriage and what you will and will not tolerate. And you have to ACT on that.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> @chumplady Sadly, a lot of that rings true. I am a passive person, and I am hurt about this, and I want to save my marriage. But I never see the point in getting angry, I'm just not someone who does that.
> 
> Can you tell me how going on the offensive will help? Im not saying its not the right thing for me, but if I demand these things then I could increase the risk of losing her, right? I guess the response to that will be what do I have to lose


User, that is exactly the point, she is already gone. She is only keeping you as a Plan B, if her paramour doesn't pan out. You are a passive person and your passivity is playing out in others controlling your destiny. She see's this passivity in you as a weakness. Have you looked up the site or book I recommend to you?

You have three clear choices. The first two you will be the person deciding your future. The third she and her OM will decide for you. 

1) Use the tried methods you find here and fight tooth and nail for you wife and see what comes of it.

2) File for divorce because your wife has broken her vows, disrespected you and crossed your boundaries. 

3) Wait in limbo and torture while your wife gives her love to another man and your marriage slowly dies.

I can't think of anything more. Good luck to you.

One more thing, read my signature. It's a quote by someone who's destiny was of his own choosing.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

User: 
You keep worrying about losing your marriage if you act assertively. Please, please, please! OPEN YOUR EYES
you HAVE lost your marriage. You need to act immediately to reclaim it if that's what you want. Follow the advice starting with chuymplady - her advice to others has been spot on

edit to say I just read anchorwatch - f o l l o w the advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> while 99.9% of the time everything between us is good, and she has feelings for me, she has stronger feelings for this other guy and she says she can't ignore those.


Print out something on PEA chemicals and give it to her. She read your other thing, get her to read this; it explains that the 'high' she's feeling for OM is just that - a chemical high that has nothing to do with real feelings:

How do our emotions get translated into physical sensations? A U.S. News and World Report article explains the importance of the vagus, a nerve that threads through your whole body. It transports signals from your brain to your organs, "setting the heart pounding, making the stomach do flip-flops, and of course, lighting the loins on fire." Everyone knows that jumpy, sort of sick feeling in your stomach. Some people call it a "hollow" feeling, while Elan Freydenson describes it this way: "That weird feeling falls somewhere between my belly button and my heart. It feels like tension building, yet it feels great and I want to have that feeling more often."

Tennov's group also reported "intrusive thinking," where it seems like your brain is fixated on the object of your affection. When your heart rules your head, there's actually one part of your brain running the other: the cortex is the area of your brain that controls logical thinking, while emotions are processed by the limbic system. When too many happy chemicals like PEA and dopamine flood your brain, they head straight for the limbic system.

*When The Honeymoon's Over*

Some scientists believe that after a certain period, from 18 months to 4 years, one's body gets used to these love stimulants. After building up a tolerance to uppers like PEA, passionate romances can cool into what Helen Fisher, author of "Anatomy of Love" calls "attachment." In this phase of the relationship, your brain produces endorphins, brain opiates more like morphine than speed. "Unlike PEA," says Fisher, "they calm the mind, kill pain, and reduce anxiety." So what some people call "separation anxiety" might actually be a form of drug withdrawal.

The idea that the "honeymoon period" of a relationship is fueled by different brain chemistry than what is present during the mellower years that come later might explain why some people can't seem to hold long-term relationships: they prefer the revving-up affects of brain amphetamines to the pain-killing effects of endorphins.

"Divorce rates peak around the fourth year of marriage," says Charles Panati in his book "Sexy Origins and Intimate Things." "The initial 'highs' of love have lost their chemical underpinnings Marilyn Monroe's classic film "The Seven Year Itch" should be retitled 'The Four Year Itch."

Read more: The Chemistry of Love​


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> @chumplady Sadly, a lot of that rings true. I am a passive person, and I am hurt about this, and I want to save my marriage. But I never see the point in getting angry, I'm just not someone who does that.
> 
> Can you tell me how going on the offensive will help?


Here's Woman 101:
Men have to respect their men, to love them. Going back to caveman days, women are genetically predisposed to CHOOSE the strong man, the taker, the one who gets things done. If her man starts becoming a beta male, or already is, she will lose all respect, affection, and desire for her man. She will start looking around for a 'real man' to take her breath away. Unfortunately, it's the assclowns who are willing to do married women who 'take.' The woman won't be able to see the difference; all she will see is a man who listens to her, takes chances for her, and takes her breath away.

You started out passive and marriage has made you even more so.

Go get this book TODAY and start reading it: No More Mr Nice Guy. 

When you finish that one, go get Married Man Sex Life (misleading title) and read it.

In the meantime, practice telling your wife that she gets to choose one of you, but you will NOT wait around - him, or you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

User_8745 said:


> @chumplady Sadly, a lot of that rings true. I am a passive person, and I am hurt about this, and I want to save my marriage. But I never see the point in getting angry, I'm just not someone who does that.
> 
> Can you tell me how going on the offensive will help? Im not saying its not the right thing for me, but if I demand these things then I could increase the risk of losing her, right? I guess the response to that will be what do I have to lose


Why do you have so little respect for yourself ? Most of these stories with these entitled narcissistic cheating spouses have a SO whose self esteem is in the gutter. This seems to be a common theme. Much worse case in case of BH. 


You already lost her. You are currently losing what little respect you have by begging a person who respects or values a little. You are not going to beg her back into the relationship. You really need to stand up for yourself.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

OP, go dark on her. be mentally prepared to end the marriage. Talk very little. Read about the 180 and implement it. 


Book reading: married man sex life
no more mr nice guy

read these books immediately.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Don't worry so much about pushing her farther away, she's already far gone. Hit her with reality right between the eyes. She's like a drug addict, she swings towards you until she needs another hit, and you let her go get it. Stop it, expose her at work, make the contact and reinforcement end.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey USER---I am sure you have read, many other threads on many websites, about how to handle adulterous situations

You have to know, that the way you are handling this, is a recipe for disaster

She cheated, you rug swept, you threw out excuse after excuse for her actions---so what did you expect

She has a man she is making love to, and in love with, to her he is a man----she is not sure what she has with you, but she certainly knows, that you basically do nothing but make sure that she has her nice cushy lifestyle, I am sure your attitudes, and actions, were discussed by the both of them, and maybe even they had a good laugh, about how this is all going down.

Vacations, lovemaking, do everything for her, is that your best plan for dealing with a woman, who has taken another man in preference to you.

Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY, where is the repentance, the remorse, the contriteness

You were told, by others, she quits her job, that is what it F'ing means---she leaves, as in yesterday-----out of site, out of mind---but no you throw out excuse after excuse for her to stay IN CONTACT, with her LOVER---so what did you expect would happen

She crossed the line, and she brought him into her life---now he thinks he has as much right to her as you do, and guess what, as you do nothing, but throw out excuses---he is winning.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Don't get me wrong I WANT her to quit her job and go to the NC route, and that is what I will put to her tonight. I have read and re-read chumpladys comments and will make that stand.

I have looked at the No More Mr Nice Guy book and will get that as well, I'm currently reading through the 5 Love Languages that was recommended by our therapist so will move on after that.

How do I go about exposing her at work, and what will that achieve? Again, not against it, just want to understand the motive behind it.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

She has expressed regret about what has happened and admits that it is her fault, but says that she can't change what happened or her feelings now.

My belief is that she can't change what has happened, but she can affect what will happen from this point on. My stance therefore is that she has a choice to make between us - 

a life with me where 
- we can better ourselves through continued communication, counselling, and advice from books and forums like this. 
- we can continue to build on the foundations we have laid
- we can enjoy out children together and give them everything they deserve

or a life with him where
- she can enjoy this new found feeling for as long as it lasts, hoping that he won't do the dirty on her like he did with his current wife
- she will affect the future of our children and not be able to take as full a part in their lives

Is this the sort of stance I should be putting to her ? I can see a future for me but I don't want to have my kids taken away - I see this as her walking away from what we have so why should she get to take the kids as well ? I don't know enough about the legal side - I'm not saying she wouldn't be able to see them, I'd just want them living with me as much as possible.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> She has expressed regret about what has happened and admits that it is her fault, but says that she can't change what happened or her feelings now.
> 
> My belief is that she can't change what has happened, but she can affect what will happen from this point on. My stance therefore is that she has a choice to make between us -
> 
> ...


User, I know you want to be a nice, likeable guy - I used to have that approach as well. Where did it get me? A cheating wife after 26 years of living together. She doesn't even seem to wish the affair never happened.

You can't please her, beg her or nice her into loving and respecting you!!..... It just won't work. She thinks that you don't mind her having a bit on the side

I have learned the very hard way, that what my WW responds to is a customized tough love approach. You need to stand up and state your boundaries in a clear and consistant manner.

So my advice is, stop reading 5 Love Languages, save that one for later when you have stopped her cheating and extramarrital flirting. Then you may work with her on Love Languages.

Read Married Mans Sex Life Primer and No More Mr. Nice Guy first to understand the dynamics between men and women in relationships. This is an absolut must to start with!


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

1. Nice guys finish last when they try to appease their cheating wives.
2. Do the 180 on your wife
3. Seperate your finances, prepare for Divorce. Not meaning you will but you need to get going per what your wife is doing you need to have your Ducks in order so it is not a Cluster as she continues to WHINE about your marriage and her FEELINGS.
4. NC letter to the other man
5. Buy a VAR and put in her Car.
6. Get her phone, TEXT records and see what is really happening.
7. Get tested for STD
8. Inform her family and yours about the ONGOING Affair. Don't let her paint you as the uncaring husband who is driving her to this.
9. Grow some cahones( Don't know if the spelling is right)


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> a life with me where
> - we can better ourselves through continued communication, counselling, and advice from books and forums like this.
> - we can continue to build on the foundations we have laid
> - we can enjoy out children together and give them everything they deserve
> ...


Please note that all those pronouns are either "we" or "she" -- there is no "I" in there.

You need to make this all about the "I" -- because that is the ONLY thing you can control here.

*I* will not be disrespected.

*I *will not stand for a marriage with three people in it.

I demand better.

*I* will be filing for divorce, because you are clear that you will not end your affair.

*I* may be open to R, but you would have to (concede to list of demands -- NC, transparency, true REMORSE, etc.)

*I* cannot continue to live this way.

Stop giving your WW your power. Stop seeing this all about what she's going to do or not do. START making this about what YOU value, what YOU will tolerate.

You need to make a sea change in your thinking. It starts with YOU.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

User I know I come on too direct. It really hard to see a guy continue his path through a mine field like you're doing, basically wanting his wife to quit having a thing for other guys but not wanting to alter his own behavior that may very well her contributed to her cheating. If you want to continue in this marriage, that's up to you. One of the many things you're not getting, I'll bet, is "romance". 
People have given you good advice. You don't seem to want to follow it. Since you apparently know your wife's boyfriend, why don't you take a look at his personality and see the kind of guy she goes for. I'll bet you he's not the passive, "go with the flow", "if I'm not a doormat, people won't like me" type guy.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@Fvstringpicker My behaviour has contributed to the affair, I know that and we have agreed it. There are things that I'm not doing that she has found someone else to do, and that has opened the door for her. Much of what has been said about being a strong individual goes along with that and I think I've been trying to express my love by supporting her all along, and I now thing that's not what she wants.

I don't know what you mean about not wanting to follow it. A lot of the advice here has been extremely negative, but I understand that there is experience here that I don't have. I do think I need to put my boundaries out there though and give her reasons to stay with me, i.e. something needs to change, and quickly. I have bought the 'No More Mr Nice Guy' ebook and will spend some time this afternoon reading through that.

The AP is very similar to me as far as I can tell, his wife was very controlling and I don't think their relationship was much different. I'm not sure what she sees in him that she doesn't see in me.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> @Fvstringpicker My behaviour has contributed to the affair, I know that and we have agreed it. There are things that I'm not doing that she has found someone else to do, and that has opened the door for her. Much of what has been said about being a strong individual goes along with that and I think I've been trying to express my love by supporting her all along, and I now thing that's not what she wants.
> 
> I don't know what you mean about not wanting to follow it. A lot of the advice here has been extremely negative, but I understand that there is experience here that I don't have. I do think I need to put my boundaries out there though and give her reasons to stay with me, i.e. something needs to change, and quickly. I have bought the 'No More Mr Nice Guy' ebook and will spend some time this afternoon reading through that.
> 
> *The AP is very similar to me as far as I can tell, his wife was very controlling and I don't think their relationship was much different. I'm not sure what she sees in him that she doesn't see in me.*


Yes, I wouldn't put too much in that - you need to concentrate on what *you *need to change in order to attract her and keep her (or any other woman for that matter) within boundaries, starting with setting boundaries.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> I'm not sure what she sees in him that she doesn't see in me.


 A man who's alpha enough to take what he wants, instead of asking for it.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

kolanut said:


> I have worked with many couples over the years to help save what might have been a failed marriage. The one prevailing problem among many of these marriages may also apply to you.
> 
> Save Your Marriage in 5 Minutes | Relationship Extra
> 
> ...


Nice ad. Do you actually believe that you can fix affair aftermath within 5 minutes???? 

Including restoring the self esteem of a betrayed spouse?

IMO, you need to deal with the affair first, THEN you can work on focus, love languages etc. etc.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@cpacan Deal with the affair by exploring why it happened and what she sees in him that I don't have? My short term goal is for her to commit to trying to work out what is wrong, but I'm concerned that it's too late for that.

This goes back to what was suggested further up the thread - that I need to put down my boundaries and see which side she's going to fall. While I can be assertive and tell her what I want from this, I feel I need to make her see that the other option isn't as good as she thinks it is, so she does decide to work on us with me.

Oh, I am completely 100% a "Nice Guy". Should I let me wife read this book too?


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow mate, what the **** are you doing to yourself?

STOP BLAMING YOURSELF! Have some respect for yourself, some kind if dignity man!

Your wife went in to the counselling while she was still banging the other bloke, that's pretty clear from early in this thread.
Have you even considered the pain of her actually cheating on you, rather than losing her, anger, resentment, you talk about the other guy, like he's this nice chap, he had sex, is probably still having sex with your wife...? 

Comments come across negative because you are living in your own type of fog, you can't see what's in front of you....She's still screwing him mate, and the reason she's still going through the motions with you, the counsilling, the niceties, is because you are making her life easy, she DOES NOT deserve to have her life made easy by you right now,. You are enabling her, giving her the best of both worlds you described in your post where you weighed up the pros/cons of her life with you or good old Bob from her workplace. She gets a devoted, loving man at home, who makes her life easy, and she gets the thrill of having someone else how she fancies. Whether you believe she is currently going ahead or not, she did, she has done, that sentence was a fact.
If she was this truly wonderful person (I used was because she's forever lost that status when she cheated on someone - erm..you) she won't be anything like that after you two inevitaby part ways. It seems to me, that you are giving her all the tools she needs to cheat. If you have the money behind you, get a private investigator, or the balls behind you get a VAR check her texts, emails, anything she'll be being very careless with how she's doing it, because you really let her.

I'm really sorry if this is harsh, but you need to wake up mate. There are a lot of 'nice guys' especially here, I was one, a few months ago myself. You are wayyyyyy to much of a nice guy, and you are getting walked all over by someone you love, that's not fair, and only YOU can change that, you have to forget her, if she's in love with you, she'll still be there after wards, if not, you'll be in a better position to actually find it.
Read this for you! Not to fix your marriage, it will only fix it, if you read it with no intention of using it, but for yourself. https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf don't show her either, not right away at least, hold it for yourself!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> @cpacan Deal with the affair by exploring why it happened and what she sees in him that I don't have? My short term goal is for her to commit to trying to work out what is wrong, but I'm concerned that it's too late for that.
> 
> This goes back to what was suggested further up the thread - that I need to put down my boundaries and see which side she's going to fall. While I can be assertive and tell her what I want from this, I feel I need to make her see that the other option isn't as good as she thinks it is, so she does decide to work on us with me.
> 
> Oh, I am completely 100% a "Nice Guy". Should I let me wife read this book too?


 No, you shouldn't - you just work need to work on implementing a blend of alpha and beta as suggested in MMSLP-book. That way you may have a chance long term. No need to explain, seek understanding/validation, just DO.

Right now you need to terminate her affair, then you will see if it's too late to work on things afterwards or not. She may respond to you in a positive way, if you show strength and go nuclear on her affair and defend your marriage - take leadership now. Then you may still have a chance, but you need to do things completely different than you use to.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She knows she can try it with the other guy and come back to you since you will be waiting for her. She knows you will take her back if her first choice fails. So, she wants to take a chance. If the relationship with the OM works, she will have made the best choice(for her). If it fails, you will be there to catch her and take her back.

Do you have the complete truth and extent of her affair? Why do you choose to keep your eyes closed to this fact?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Don't get me wrong I WANT her to quit her job and go to the NC route, and that is what I will put to her tonight. I have read and re-read chumpladys comments and will make that stand.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I go about exposing her at work, and what will that achieve?* Again, not against it, just want to understand the motive behind it.*


The answer is it's a tool to kill the affair, so you can work on the marriage. All exposure sends a message that you will not tolerate your boundaries being crossed in any manner. It's not for spite or revenge. Do you understand why employers have such policies against such fraternization?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> @cpacan Deal with the affair by exploring why it happened and what she sees in him that I don't have? My short term goal is for her to commit to trying to work out what is wrong, but I'm concerned that it's too late for that.
> 
> Oh, I am completely 100% a "Nice Guy". Should I let me wife read this book too?


 A Not-Nice Guy would NEVER give a book to his wife to read. He would just ACT.

And a Not-Nice Guy would never TRY to get her to do ANYTHING. He would say "I won't share you with another man. If you don't want me, get the hell out of my house. Today."

Maybe not so rude, but you get the point.

Basically, everything you're doing...STOP.

Take the day off work and just sit down and read the book.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Before you go 180 on her, read Married Man Sex Life, it is a relationship guide and will show you exactly what you are doing wrong and what the OM is doing right to attract your wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> I feel I need to make her see


I would be RICH if I had a dime for every Nice Guy who said this.

NO. You do NOT need to make her see ANYTHING.

You KNOW what you need in your life and a cheating wife isn't one of them.

Period.

That's all you need to know at this point.

I know it's hard for a NG to see it, you have so much cobweb in your eyes, it seems counterintuitive to someone who thinks people will _like_ you if you're nice...but the quicker, the harder, the meaner you dump her for cheating on you, the faster she'll run back to you and beg forgiveness.

The best case I ever saw...a man caught his wife rolling on the floor naked with OM in one of their rental homes. He whipped out his phone, took a picture of them naked, messaged it to OM's wife, swooped up their clothes, walked out to the middle of the street, dumped the clothes, and drove off. By the time he got home, his wife was right behind him, BEGGING him, on her knees, to give her just one more chance.

THAT is the man you need to be.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> A lot of the advice here has been extremely negative


What we have told you is NOT negative. It is proven, it is documented, it is researched, and it works.

You SEE it as negative because just the thought of standing up to you strikes terror in your heart. It's ok to admit it. All NGs start out that way. Until they learn they don't have to be afraid of their wives. 

Then they can't believe they waited so long to live again.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Ok.

I'm going to tell her tonight to put the wheels in motion to leave her job, enter a state of no contact with this guy and go for full disclosure if she wants to have a chance to hold on to me. 

I'll tell her that I don't believe that she's not having an ongoing affair, unless she can prove this to me by allowing me access to email and phone records (should I do this or just check her phone later once she's gone to bed?). 

I'll tell her that I am open to moving forward with us but only if she shows 100% commitment to this and complete transparency going forward.

I'll tell her that I'm looking forward to an amazing future with my kids and if she wants to join me on that, it's up to her.


The thought of doing all this petrifies me and as you guys have identified, it's not me at all. We have a counselling session tomorrow and I wonder if that will help or should I act tonight? I know the answer to that, and the thought that I may have no marriage by the end of the night terrifies me even more.

What should I be reading BTW, Married Man Sex Life or No More Mr Nice Guy? I bought NMMNG a couple of hours ago and am reading through that.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

turnera said:


> You SEE it as negative because just the thought of standing up to you strikes terror in your heart.


Ding ding we have a winner 

Actually it's the potential result of the conversation that strikes terror in my heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> I'll tell her that I don't believe that she's not having an ongoing affair, unless she can prove this to me by allowing me access to email and phone records (should I do this or just check her phone later once she's gone to bed?).


You don't tell her what you believe or don't believe. You tell her you won't STAY in a marriage in which you have to GUESS if she's being faithful. Either she PROVES she is by handing over her phone and computer whenever you want to see it, or you are moving on.

Period.

And HELL no you don't wait til she's asleep, tiptoe into the room, sneak out with her phone, and check it - all so she doesn't catch you checking up on her.

Would an alpha man tiptoe? No. He would hold out his hand and say 'let me see your phone. Now.' And if she refuses, you turn around, go to the bedroom, and start packing her clothes into a suitcase.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personally, you're not ready to confront her. You'll crumble like a dollar bill, the first negative thing she says. DO go to counseling and tell the MC that you know she's cheating, and you're deciding if you're willing to give her one more chance. Meantime, read NMMNG but ALSO read MMSL. You need both of them.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Appreciate what you mean but she may get lucky and not have anything there, but know I might do it again in the future hence be more careful. By checking without her knowing, I can do it again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day ...


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Being paralyzed by fear of the unknown is never a good thing.

Face your fear and realize that what ever happens you will move forward and make a better life for your kids. Like you said, if your wife comes along for the ride or not, it is her choice.

Sooner or latter your wife will take things into her own hands, for the sake of your marriage, it would be better to face this head-on now rather than let the fear make you sit around waiting on her to make a choice in her own good time.

At the moment you have no direction in your life. Wouldn't it be better to understand and know what you need to do? One way or another.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> Appreciate what you mean but she may get lucky and not have anything there, but know I might do it again in the future hence be more careful. By checking without her knowing, I can do it again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day ...


 One of the tenets of a betrayed spouse who is willing to take the cheater back is that you, now that she has lost your trust, have the RIGHT and DUTY (to your marriage) to randomly check her phone and computer (and car for a throwdown phone) to make sure she hasn't reconnected with OM.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

I guess that's it, at the moment I don't know what's going to happen and am in a state of limbo. We've said that we'll wait until tomorrow night before doing anything else, I guess tonight will just be a normal night with no talk of anything. 

turnera's comments are right, I probably will crumble. Just the thought of raising my voice against her worries me but I think I need to do that to at least give myself some self-belief in this, at the moment the control is in her hands and if it stays there then I guess there is only one way this is going.

Should I wait until after tomorrow night before I confront her? Or do it tonight ? Bear in mind she doesn't work on Wednesdays.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Personally, you're not ready to confront her. You'll crumble like a dollar bill, the first negative thing she says. DO go to counseling and tell the MC that you know she's cheating, and you're deciding if you're willing to give her one more chance. Meantime, read NMMNG but ALSO read MMSL. You need both of them.


:iagree: Your not ready. Take the extra time and prepare for tomorrow. Use the MC as a third party.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

turnera said:


> would an alpha man tiptoe? No. *he would hold out his hand and say 'let me see your phone. Now.'* and if she refuses, you turn around, go to the bedroom, and start packing her clothes into a suitcase.


*this*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wait. And tell the MC that you know you have become a beta male and you want to change that. But that doesn't excuse her cheating. Let the MC be the strong person for now. You can't do it on your own.


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Stay focused, it WILL not work the way you want it to, you can't stop being a NG without focus, I'm 2 months from learning how soft I was, our reconcile has been pointless because I was still allowing her to walk over me, weather she tries or not, it's not until now that I am comfortable enough to say that I don't want a lying, cheating woman to share my life with. I want out, she's aware of it, it's do or don't, she's had her shot, I'm living my life now, a real life, if she wants a part if that she can deal with it or walk.
I feel your fear, pain, anxiety, you are at the beginning of something that will leave you a mess, but stay focused on YOU not her, or the marriage, there is no marriage anymore, it's over, it's post or likely mid affair. A very different place to marriage. 
You will fall deeper than you can imagine, the pain (when it hits) is utter agony, you'll go down to your lowest level, but there is another side, I believed no one when they told me, but here I am, telling you....
Good luck, and keep posting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Although you aren't ready, I'd say go for it tonight, while you've got this newfound clarity still fresh, she'll freak out, she'll try new things to break you (good or bad person, she's relying on you NOT doing it)
She'll probably end up leaving for her 'space' or done other excuse, and bail on the MC but what's the point in going if she's going to run at the first sign of her husband standing up for himself.
Body language, helps you to, stand firm literally, show no pain, cry your eyes out later, when you aren't around her. Don't be petty, don't be desperate no 'why can't you see what your doing to us' just you sticking up for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

@MoreOfAMan Thanks for your first post, I was worrying that I had to change overnight. Reading this Mr Nice Guy book is frightening, I fit into just about every category in here! I could cut and paste quotes but to be honest, I'd be here all day!


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> @cpacan Deal with the affair by exploring why it happened and what she sees in him that I don't have? My short term goal is for her to commit to trying to work out what is wrong, but I'm concerned that it's too late for that.
> 
> This goes back to what was suggested further up the thread - that I need to put down my boundaries and see which side she's going to fall. While I can be assertive and tell her what I want from this, I feel I need to make her see that the other option isn't as good as she thinks it is, so she does decide to work on us with me.
> 
> Oh, I am completely 100% a "Nice Guy". Should I let me wife read this book too?


Absolutely do not share NMMNG book with her. It's a program for you and your self improvement. Let her see you change in your actions. Letting her in on NMMNG is just like asking Mommy for a cookie for good behavior. It's counter to the NMMNG program.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Yep I think I'm seeing that the more I read through it, it's part of the seeking approval bit - I'm looking for her to approve that I'm taking action.

Should I be doing all the activities as I go ? I'm just reading through it at the moment.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> @MoreOfAMan Thanks for your first post, I was worrying that I had to change overnight. Reading this Mr Nice Guy book is frightening, I fit into just about every category in here! I could cut and paste quotes but to be honest, I'd be here all day!


NMMNG is a process. You're re-programming a relationship that has been years in the formation. It will take a long time to re-set expectations.

But the journey is it's own reward. There will be one step back for every two forward. But just focus on continuing on making progress. 

Do not reference NMMNG in your counseling. Just tell the MC that you recognize that you have been too beta for the good of the relationship, apologize to your wife for not being the rock to lean on that she needs and that you will be working every day to become a better man that she can depend upon. 

And the first step in assuming that leadership is telling her to go No Contact on the affair and start looking for another job to get her away from affair partner. Then pick a consequence. (Serving divorce papers, separating, whatever)

Be sure to consult a lawyer before laying down your consequence, though. Don't want to move out and hinder any position you may want to have on custody side.

She has to know full well and clear that you are not sitting around to be her fall-back Plan B. It's you or him. No waffling accepted. Do this in presence of MC. It will give you added strength.

This is the first day of the rest of your life. Grab it with gusto. It will feel good to take the reins of your relationship again. Good luck!


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

I found it hard to read, I refused to believe many parts of it, and I did share it with my wife after a while, I tried to show her about toxic shame, co-dependency, I tried to make her see. The words mean nothing past amazement at first, until you realise that the book you are reading helps you, and only you, the odds are against you and your wife being together, don't fight the odds, play them, but don't bet the house, or more literally, and far worde your whole life.
There was nothing anyone could say back then, I believed she was different, not like all the rest, she would see what I saw, feel what I feel....but that mate, simply isn't in your hands. Don't prolong the pain, you can skip forward a few steps, if you stay strong.
I found mornings where the hardest time, I would feel awful everytime I woke up, and the only thing that made the pain stop, was being the NG again, and buying into that I was to blame, and get a fix of my wife. As an alternative use exercise... You'll need to shape up, especially if you are going to be free and single after this, believe me girls respond incredibly well to confidence, and when you (in my case get it back) or discover it, the world is a very different place.
You can see the light, it will disappear, many times over, but seeing it once is enough to play on your mind, you will revisit it, if you want it bad enough now.
Your thread asks for help saving your marriage, but you need to save yourself from the misery you are in.
Prepare for the worst mate, it's not looking good for that Mrs of yours!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

MarriedTex said:


> Do not reference NMMNG in your counseling. Just tell the MC that you recognize that you have been too beta for the good of the relationship, apologize to your wife for not being the rock to lean on that she needs and that you will be working every day to become a better man that she can depend upon.
> 
> And the first step in assuming that leadership is telling her to go No Contact on the affair and start looking for another job to get her away from affair partner. Then pick a consequence. (Serving divorce papers, separating, whatever)


I like this, thanks. I will definitely do this at the start of tomorrows session.



MarriedTex said:


> Be sure to consult a lawyer before laying down your consequence, though. Don't want to move out and hinder any position you may want to have on custody side.


Not so much this. I hate dealing with professional people as I feel out of my depth, and even worse if it costs me money.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

User-so sorry you're going through this. 


I don't see any anger here yet. 

I know you feel sad and confused, but isn't there a part of you that is so MAD at what she's done to the marriage. At her betrayal, and her behavior? 

I feel like there's gotta be a mix of emotions, anger included to move forward. I just don't see that at all in your writing. 

Its good to want to be a nice guy, but I'm afraid that you're being walked on. There has to be anger somewhere, underneath all of your sadness and hurt. ? It seems like, either way, this could be a ticking time bomb.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> Yep I think I'm seeing that the more I read through it, it's part of the seeking approval bit - I'm looking for her to approve that I'm taking action.
> 
> Should I be doing all the activities as I go ? I'm just reading through it at the moment.


 You're going to end up reading it a few times. Just read the first time to get the concept down. Then take your time to start working the exercises.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I ALWAYS advise betrayed spouses to get mad and STAY mad. Not in your face kind of mad, but rather burning in your belly angry so that you filter everything they do through it. You're gonna do WHAT with my kids? Who's the cheater, B? We'll see about that! (but not out loud)


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Ahhhhh no see a lawyer regardless....you are a newly discovering NG you need people to help you through, and a good lawyer is someone you need! Look at it like an injury, you lost the use if your legs, and you are now in rehabilitation to walk again, you turned to others that have archived that to some degree, that's great but you need the doctors, nurses, equipment. A lawyer is the person who makes sure you don't miss your appointment. They are protecting their practice by making sure they get their grubby little hands on what you have, but in return they stop the cheating liar you live with from hurting you more, they get you to the appointment.

Please contact a lawyer, immediately. Tell them the situation and they'll tell you what they need, give it to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Most lawyers will offer a 30-minute consultation for free.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

I am angry at what she's done, of course I am. Everything about my life was going so well and she's had something missing that she has sought to solve by betraying the relationship that my life has been built around, without communicating with me beforehand. And now she's looking to end it once and for all, how could I not be angry ?

I guess the reason why I'm not showing this to her or on here is that I don't see how that is going to benefit in solving the problems. I don't really want to have a shouting match with her (it'll either be in the presence of the kids or wake them for a start), as I don't see where that will get us.

But yes, it eats me up inside what's happened.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Notice how I said stay mad but do NOT say it out loud? You can let anger guide your decisions. If you were really mad, and not scared, you would have done something more substantial by now.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

That's not me though. I don't get angry and let that guide me, I was gutted by what happened and I took the time to analyse it and like to think I make rational decisions. You're right, I would have done more if I was angry and not scared.


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Your last sentence answers your question of what would benefit from it. The pain is worse than grief, it is not sonething you want eating away at you inside!!
You can be angry without shouting, you can be angry without lashing out. Anger isn't all **** yous. It's an emotion like everyother, feeeel it, let it out, channelling it the right way. (another plus point for exercise)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

In that case then yes, I am angry. I'm angry that she's let this happen to our relationship, but I'm also starting to see why it happened.

Is it solveable? Well, I'm sure you'll all tell me that I shouldn't worry about her and sort myself out, and if she wants in then she'll stay. I need to suck it in and follow that route and if the future doesn't involve us together, then I need to live with it somehow.

Anyway I'm off to pick up the kids from nursery. I'm not planning on doing anything tonight, I need tomorrow to read through some of this again and prepare for tomorrow night. Thanks everyone for your words, even though some of them seem proper mean


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Only cuz we care about you!


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

User_8745 said:


> Not so much this. I hate dealing with professional people as I feel out of my depth, and even worse if it costs me money.


Be very careful here. You deal with professional people because YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR DEPTH. You do not know implications of marriage/divorce laws in your state. That is why there are people in these specialties. At least get a free consultation to determine the basics in protecting your interests.

The worst thing you can do to yourself is laying down the law on No Contact with the OM and then having no concrete answer when she asks "Or What?" Ultimatums are meaningless without consequences. If she crosses the boundary, how are you going to respond. If you have no concrete answer, that's a sorry way to start your new Alpha mode. It's toothless and weak and will put you right back where you started. And you can't establish consequences that won't hurt you without knowing the legal rules that are used in your state. 

If nothing else, google "divorce custody laws" in your state.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I'll tell her that I don't believe that she's not having an ongoing affair, unless she can prove this to me by allowing me access to email and phone records (should I do this or just check her phone later once she's gone to bed?).


Don't ask her. You will lose the evidence forever. Do it. Then ask her the next day


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

User_8745 said:


> That's not me though. I don't get angry and let that guide me, I was gutted by what happened and I took the time to analyse it and like to think I make rational decisions. You're right, I would have done more if I was angry and not scared.


Anger is a necessary emotion. just like happiness and being sad. How you tap into the emotion is up to you.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

User - I'm not trying to be mean (I don't think any of us are)... 

I'll just say that I used to be like you - the "nice girl". When H and I would fight, if I got mad, I never was much of a confronter. I didn't want to make it worse by saying I was mad. So I would shut myself in a room and either cry, or scream in a pillow. 

When he betrayed me, though...the timebomb went off - after the crying and sadness gave way. Not saying it was pretty, but it was something I needed to deal with, and he needed to know it.

It was eye-opening for him. Definitely. 

And I believe he respects me more for showing him I can be angry, and hold my own without worrying that it'll make things worse. I'm not saying he likes it, but definitely respects it. 

I guess all's that I'm trying to say is that it will be healthier for you, in the long run, regardless of the path you choose - to be in touch with those feelings, and share them with her. She needs to see that. She won't like it, but these are the pieces she's left shattered to the ground. 

Good luck. And sorry if I sound mean!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You sound like a hyperrational person who establishes goals and then defines the most reasonable path to achieving the goal.

The problem I see with what I'm reading here is that what you rationally perceive to be reasonable isn't going to get you what you want.

The people responding to you are giving the benefit of real knowledge and experience in this area. People actually are very similar in their behaviors, including in relationships and tendencies to indulge in and react to infidelity. The posters here are trying to make you see that your situation isn't special to you and that you will follow much of the script that they are all so familiar with. Keep reading the books and the threads here & you'll see how things go.

You seem to think that what you're being advised to do is counterintuitive, that it's not right for the person you are or who your wife is. But if you want to save your marriage, you will have to swallow some counterintuitive behaviors.

(There's a classic Seinfeld episode called 'The Opposite' in which George realizes that he always makes the wrong decisions & decides to do the opposite of what his intuition tells him. He does this and suddenly starts succeeding beyond his wildest imagination. I think you need to do the opposite.)


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> That's not me though. I don't get angry and let that guide me, I was gutted by what happened and I took the time to analyse it and like to think I make rational decisions. You're right, I would have done more if I was angry and not scared.


Sorry that you are going through this.

I feel that I am a little further along this road of torment and hell than you are, and I have had a similar problem. I am not one to get angry (though people tell me I seem angry when I am not feeling it). The good folks here at TAM helped me a lot to find my anger. They helped me believe that I am worth more than this, that just because my WS trashed our vows and kicked me while I was down and I still adored and loved her and wanted her to want me back, that I am mad at her for doing this to me. In fact, the sooner you can actually feel your anger the sooner you can start making the right decisions. 

I am prepping to file, and let me tell you, it's the last thing I ever thought I would want to do. But being in touch with my anger (you have it too, you're just not in touch with it) helps me realize that being around her at all is so incredibly toxic that there is no other option. I suffer from visualizations of the OM entering her, of her giving her complete sexual and loving energy to him and not ever working with me instead, and I realize that I have no choice, any woman that could do that to me and not repent VERY HEAVILY is hurting me terribly and I am worth more than that.

AND SO ARE YOU.

Just imagine her with the OM for a while, you'll come to your senses. If you can get disclosure it will help, but please be prepared for a hell like you've never experienced. 

Good luck.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dear me! Now I know why some folks here say: "Oh, no! you are being too British about this!" in response to some of my posts!

You are a fellow Brit, aren't you?

Ask your wife this question, please:

"OK, I know you are quite comfortable with cheating on me, but how do you *really* feel about cheating on our children? Because that is what you are doing. Every second you spend with the other man, or thinking about him is a second you steal from not only me, but from our children. You are disrespecting me, and you are disrespecting our children."

Then tell us her reply to that, please.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> I don't know what you mean about not wanting to follow it. A lot of the advice here has been extremely negative, but I understand that there is experience here that I don't have.


The reason I surmised you want to continue down the same non-confrontational path and not follow advise can be summarized in part of a couple of post you made, _"Sadly, a lot of that rings true. I am a passive person, and I am hurt about this, and I want to save my marriage. But I never see the point in getting angry, I'm just not someone who does that. Can you tell me how going on the offensive will help?"_ And, "_ I guess the reason why I'm not showing this to her or on here is that I don't see how that is going to benefit in solving the problems. I don't really want to have a shouting match with her (it'll either be in the presence of the kids or wake them for a start), as I don't see where that will get us." _

One way it will help and what it will get you is that it will keep her and other people from crapping on you. You also stated you didn't want to do anything to drive her further away. What ja gonna do if she tell you to she ain't gonna ditch the BF. Like my father in law, CSM (retired) of the fifth special forces would tell you, "soldier, you're trying to go into this battle without any ammunition. "

At some time in your life, you've know a female who was bullied, always taking the hit, putting up with peoples abuse, going far to please others just to be accepted. You may have felt sorrow and pity for them, but you didn't respect them and probably didn't consider them sexy. 

I'm not claiming to be an expert on women but I've garnered enough experience to pretty much know what makes them tick. Women want a man that's a challenge, that keeps them on their toes, that says "no" occasionally. To a women, a guy who is a doormat, like a real doormat, may have utility, but it's not sexy. To women, a man who they don't respect equals contempt and being a bore and a dud. You need to be a "Im not going to be in second place for two of you. Treat me like I'm the only guy in your life or the hell with you. "


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

User, continue to read NMMNG first, then MMSL. As you've been advised, forget FLL for the forseeable future.

I agree with what everybody else has said, but I want to give you a quick overview of some things that people have either mentioned or alluded to that you seem to have skimmed over.

Your wife is approaching 30. Her Testosterone levels, and thus her sex drive, just suddenly spiking upward two or three years back, they are the highest they'll ever be in her life for about the next 5-10 years. She has no preparation or experience to dealing with her present level of libido. The body does this to ensure she's copulating like mad between now and infertility. Hold that thought. Savor it.

With her libido approaching its peak, your wife's slumbering sexuality is awakened by a predator (that's defined as any normal male unencumbered by religious or societal restrictions - its a male in the natural state). Her brain is now flooded with PEA chemistry, dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, etc. whenever she is around this guy who she realizes at some point is trying to seduce her. At some point she's willing to take his c*ck into her body and it's off to the races. Everytime he unloads in her (they never use rubbers in affairs for this reason) mood elevating chemicals (oxytocin, estrone), emotional bonding chemicals (vasopressin), and libido elevators (testosterone) are absorbed from his semen, through the vaginal wall, or alternatively under the tongue, and into her blood stream. This, combined with the crack-like high from the other brain chemicals she gets from the act of sex with any man who is not her husband, ensure that your wife becomes besotted (intoxicated) with the idea of sex with the OM(s). It becomes an addiction and a craving.

Because of the chemical bonding with the OM, many wives end up abandoning their homes and children to get another injection of what they perceive to be more Alpha. Even though they may know the relationship is going nowhere, they desperately need one more injection of the "drug." This is also why previously thought saintly mothers will turn into total slvts once the start up an affair. They'll do anything, including all the kinky stuff you wanted to do that they abhorred you for suggesting. They're up for whatever the AP wants to do, threesomes, orgies, toys, anal. You name it. She has to make these memories with OM now, just in case she ends up back with you. Got that? Think about it. Savor it.

That craving is what you're up against and that's why it was a lie that they only did it once. They've fooked many times. They're into mind-blowing kinky sh!t that your wife will never tell you about. The father of her children can never know she can be so insatiable and out of control in the sack.

Your wife, at least since she started willingly going along with her seduction, has been finding or inventing fault with you in order to feed her Rationalization Hamster. The RH is the part of the female brain that reconciles the sexual antics orchestrated by the Limbic brain with whatever her previous beliefs were about sex and marriage and motherhood. Those are rational thoughts which arise in the Cortex. As you can see, a decent woman, who previously expressed devotion to home and hearth, but is now willing to sacrifice her own children and their future emotional well being on the altar of her boyfriend's c0ck, has some serious issues with cognitive dissonance. Therefore it's your fault. Her RH will run around in its wheel until it gins up enough bogus contempt and hatred for you to justify all the evil she's done and is preparing to do to you. The kids are just collateral damage, but it can't be helped.

What you have to do is break through all that sex goddess chemistry that's in her head. The Limbic System and her 30 yr old body agenda is in complete control. If the Cortex gets in the driver's seat, she's remorseful and makes reconciliatory sounds in your direction, but as soon as she sees OM, and especially when they fook or she blows him, the Limbic is back in charge. That's why your wife is swinging like a pendulum, but it's a pendulum that swings less and less in your direction and more in the direction of OM(s).

The only way to reach her Cortex is shock therapy. Namely the shock of you turning into a Man.

Here's immediate action:

Find yourself on the Male Sexual Hierarchy so you see your shortcomings. 

NMMNG, MMSL. Stay up and read.

Cancel the MC. Don't confront via a 3rd party. MC is useless in an affair. Save the money for the lawyer.

Demand her phone. Get it and download all the poop and d!ck photos he's sent her. Back up the data. What kind of phone does she have? If she doesn't hand it over, follow the previous instructions to put her stuff in garbage bags immediately. Deliver her and the bags to her mother's, not the OM's place. Dump it on her yard or front porch.

Get into her email, back it all up.

See that lawyer and find out what's going to happen. You're in Britain, right? Can't give you a clue on how that will go down, but start the divorce wheels turning right now. If she crawls on all fours and grabs your ankles, you can always stop the process.

DNA the youngest child. Tell your wife you're doing it. This sends a shot across her bows like nothing else.

Now, first thing after all that: 
See your doctor and ask him for a T panel workup. You probably have some issues there. Don't take no for an answer. At your age you should be at least 600 ng/ml. I bet yours are much lower. They will say you're in the normal range (300-1K), but if it's less than 600, you need to boost it.

Then change your look. New haircut, new clothes. The latest stuff for straight guys, whatever. 

Don't spend too much on new clothes, because you're going to join the gym. Tell them you don't know what you're doing, but you want to build max muscle fast. Get rid of all your bodyfat. No bread, beer, or sugar. Train three days a week. Your goal is to look like this guy:









Don't waste time on "cardio" unless there is a good looking woman next to an empty treadmill.

Bottom line, you have to use these actions to hit your wife with the emotional force of a panzer division just to cut through all the chemical noise in her brain and shock the cortex into the driver's seat, otherwise your wife cannot see reason. That's why guys can never make their wives UNDERSTAND that they really don't want to run away and be a cumdumpster for the Hell's Angels.

To save the marriage, you must burn it. Time's fast running out. Alpha up now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep. Strong, swift action.

Nothing else works.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> With her libido approaching its peak, your wife's slumbering sexuality is awakened by a predator (that's defined as any normal male unencumbered by religious or societal restrictions - its a male in the natural state). At some point she's willing to take his c*ck into her body and it's off to the races. Everytime he unloads in her (they never use rubbers in affairs for this reason) mood elevating chemicals (oxytocin, estrone), emotional bonding chemicals (vasopressin), and libido elevators (testosterone) are absorbed from his semen, through the vaginal wall, or alternatively under the tongue, and into her blood stream. This, combined with the crack-like high from the other brain chemicals she gets from the act of sex with any man who is not her husband, ensure that your wife becomes besotted (intoxicated) with the idea of sex with the OM(s). It becomes an addiction and a craving.
> 
> That craving is what you're up against and that's why it was a lie that they only did it once. They've fooked many times. They're into mind-blowing kinky sh!t that your wife will never tell you about. The father of her children can never know she can be so insatiable and out of control in the sack.


Dang Mack, that brings back ole memories. You got me wishing I was in my thirties again. :smthumbup:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Dang Mack, that brings back ole memories. You got me wishing I was in my thirties again. :smthumbup:


And I thought you were a dude.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Well, I just put it all to her. Didn't think I would tonight, but there we go.

So I told her about how the real problem is that we had both become different people to who we were when we fell in love, and that I'm going to change that for me. I have become someone who is walked all over and I don't want that, I want to be someone who takes charge and leads the family. I was almost shouting this and was certainly getting a little teary, not quite sure why. She looked genuinely surprised by this, and said that she's proud of me for doing that, but it doesn't change her feelings about OM.

Not good. 

@alt Dame I'm not against what is being suggested, just it's out of my comfort zone and hence I'm reluctant to try it as it doesn't make me comfortable.

@Disenchanted Yes, that last bit certainly made me angry.

@MattMatt Yes I'm British. if I asked my wife that she would say that I shouldn't bring the kids into it, and that she's thought plenty about the affect it will have on the kids.

@Fvstringpicker I don't think I need to give her that choice, I think she's already made her mind up.

@Machiavelli The Rationalization Hamster bit rings bells, often I get told off for doing something that doesn't seem that wrong! 

The rest makes sense too, however she keeps coming back and telling me that the reason behind this is that she feels a connection with him that she doesn't feel with me, and that she has never felt and doesn't believe can feel. This is what cuts me up so much, and annoyingly it makes sense, but I want to find a way to get that feeling with her. Can I do this if I never have before? What is this feeling? Is this something that our MC can help with tomorrow night? I'm still not sure she is 100% sure that she knows what she's doing still. I've put this to her a few times and she says that her heart says this is right, it's like a tug of war with her heart on one end and the material things on the other end - kids, house, job etc.

And wow that is a hell of an action list.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> if I asked my wife that she would say that I shouldn't bring the kids into it, and that she's thought plenty about the affect it will have on the kids.


*Then, mate, that is exactly WHY you must bring the kids into it.*

Because by cheating on their dad, that is *exactly* what she has done. Far too late for her to think about that, now!

And i she has thought about the affect it would have on the kids, she clearly hasn't thought about them enough. Or just doesn't care? God! I hope that isn't the case. 

By the way, I use the term mate because I am a Brummie, and that's what we do! 

It's difficult, but one way or another we have all been there. And we have got your back, OK?:smthumbup:


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?

In tears right now


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Sadly she still thinks that she can either have both worlds or at least have you asa decent plan B (since you are starting to man up).

You need to put your marriage out there, outside your comfort zone. You must be willing to loose her, cause you already have lost her.

Print divorce papers, fill them out, and give them to her to sign. Tell her you love her so much that you will not stand in the way for her happyness. Help her pack some things and offer to drive her to OM place.

If she agrees to this, you have lost her already, if not, you have a chance. It's scary, but it's the way it is. You need to step up and face your demons.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?
> 
> In tears right now


Because they can, basically. 

It gets to a situation when whatever they want is right and they do not care about their poor husband and wife or their children, really.

How was the counselling? Was it Relate?

Trouble with marriage counselling is that it is like sending an alcoholic to an AA meeting before they admit to themselves that they are an alcoholic.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?
> 
> In tears right now


I'm sorry you are at this point. You still can take the advantage. Will you expose the A, or divorce her?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Here we go, you all know the refrain...

File for D
Do the 180 (google it)
Prepare yourself for life without her. Do you really need a lying cheating wife in your life? Come on, honestly?
This will make her see what she'll be missing. If she doesn't come around then let the D go through and move on.
Only talk to her about the kids.
Start going out, don't tell her where you're going or when you'll be back. 
Do ask where she's going.
Watch some Russel Crowe movies. Get your macho on. Be disrespectful to her. Stop caring so much.

Watch her attitude change.

But remember, this isn't a gimmick to get your wife back. This is a life change for YOU.

Good luck.


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## SandyLady80 (Sep 14, 2012)

Oh my gosh. What a painful situation. If you're wife is emotionally attached to this other guy, you are dealing with a situation very similar to drug addiction. I don't know if you know anything about being married to a drug addict, but the odds aren't good and it's not pretty. It's not hopeless, but it can get pretty close to hopeless. I'm not trying to make you feel worse, but you should stop moping and start preparing for the worst. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. There may be nothing that you can do at this point if she is too far gone with this other guy.

You should talk to a lawyer and try to prepare as best you can for a possible divorce. I know that right now, a divorce seems like something that happens on other planets, but it is a very real eventual probability for you. Prepare yourself for it. Like going to war.

At the same time, you can do everything you can to save your marriage, but only if she really wants to. If her heart's not in it anymore, there's really nothing you can do. Sorry.

You should have a frank discussion with her and ask her if she really WANTS to save the marriage. 

If she does, then you will have to be extremely patient as she cuts things off with the other guy. If she's emotionally attached to him, she will go through emotional hell letting go of him. She will go through withdrawals just like a junkie. It's definitely her fault that she's in this situation, but it's still extremely difficult and painful to rectify. Just a like a crack addict only has himself to blame for the fix he's in, it doesn't matter. If his loved ones choose to stay in his life, they will have to be patient as he goes through withdrawals and relapses.

With any luck, she's just having a physical fling, and she won't mind cutting him off. But if that's the case, in a way it's worse, because it shows that she's willing to screw around you without being emotionally pulled by it. She's willing to do it because she wants to, not because she really really really wants to really bad. That's not good either, but easier to overcome.

Good luck. Be good to yourself. Don't let her beat you down. This does not mean that you are a bad husband or bad person. These things happen to all kinds of people. The sun WILL come up again some day. Bad times are fires that we must walk through at times, but it DOES pass. They are not forever. Take time to meditate. Clear your mind of all the negative worries and just be with yourself for a few minutes each day. With yourself alone, there is peace. That's a little new-agey, but it's helped me with my problems when I've just needed the voices to stop for a few minutes.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Cheaters are NEVER honest, you pretty much have to beat out the details. She is only telling you what you already know. 

The other mans (OM) wife probably kicked him out due to the fact that he was sleeping with your wife and she found out about it. I would contact her and find out!

This has probably been going on a lot longer then you think!


The people here are giving you some great advise, most if not all have been through the same thing, so they know what they are talking about!


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> And I thought you were a dude.


Oh I am. When I was 30 to about 45, I have many memories of the women you describe and then I could handle it. At 65, I may have a problem. At any rate, I thought it was my talents that rocked their world. Now I find out it was only chemicals. Kind of a downer, but hey, like they say, "we had chemistry".


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

User---You need to go dark, on your wife

Move her and all her belongings to a small room, in your home---as of now she is out of the marital bedroom, and U SPEND NO TIME WITH HER

Talk to her only in regard to kids, necessities, of living, and NOTHING ELSE

She must now be given a glimpse of reality

What she has with her lover is hot love and infatuation---that is all, nothing more---there is no reality there, no problem solving, no bill paying, no kids dealing, no emergencies

Eventually she is gonna find out, he is the POS, that he really is---breaking up his family and yours, trouble is your wife is exactly the same---but if you want her----that bad---you need to show her, you can live fully and completely w/out her

Make sure she pays half of all bills, in re to EVERYTHING---and demand the money from her in time to pay each and every bill as it comes due----give her nothing--let her live on what she brings in

Let's just see how she REALLY LIKES REALITY


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> I'm still not sure she is 100% sure that she knows what she's doing still.


User, I've known a lot of women in my time. I had lots of affairs and did some light escorting in my younger years. One thing you can take to the bank, they are always 100% sure of their actions. They don't move until they are 100% sure. They may live to regret it, but at the time they are 100% sure. 
One thing I'm 100% sure of is that a disloyal woman, a woman that don't love you in a manner you want, is really easy to replace. It may sound harsh, but its true. You may feel that right now, she's the only one you want, but you're fooling yourself. If you'd never met her, you'd be with someone else now and wouldn't know she's alive. Come back in two years and you'll be saying that replacing her with your current girl is the best thing ever to you.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

sandc said:


> Here we go, you all know the refrain...
> 
> File for D
> Do the 180 (google it)
> ...


So very sorry to hear about your latest discovery and your pain. Truly very, very sorry.

I think sandc's list is a good one - it's in a nutshell what people here recommend, I believe. If you do these things, you will ironically become more attractive to your wife, but also be so much stronger yourself that you will be more at peace if you D.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> I've put this to her a few times and she says that her heart says this is right, it's like a tug of war with her heart on one end and the material things on the other end - kids, house, job etc.
> 
> And wow that is a hell of an action list.


Fantasy vs. reality. This would never have been my response a few months ago, but now...
Leave her to her fantasy. Wait and watch for about six months till she has to wash his dirty socks, and deal with his filthy bathroom. She'll come groveling back.

And hopefully by then, you'll see that your marriage - right now - is fantasy...and will be living happily in reality without her.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

When I read the postings of the nice guys and how they respond to what is the best advice you can get I want to bang my head on the wall. User you need to think, what is best for me, what is best for my kids. Your wife has betrayed you and she has lost all rights to the good life you are trying to make. Do the IC, read the Books and get a good Lawyer. You cannot worry about the consequenses your WW is going to face. If you hope to salvage anything you should make the life she will have once you are gone nothing like what she expects. I was scared silly to, but once she was gone, things got better.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> @Machiavelli The Rationalization Hamster bit rings bells, often I get told off for doing something that doesn't seem that wrong!
> 
> The rest makes sense too, however she keeps coming back and telling me that the reason behind this is that *she feels a connection with him that she doesn't feel with me*, and that she has never felt and doesn't believe can feel.


That's because he blew up his marriage to be with your wife. They've been having over the top kinky sex that your wife can't have with you because she would find it humiliating for you to see her true inner slvt. She wants you to remember her as the sweet mother of your children, not a sex crazed nymphomaniac for some mfing dooshbag.



User_8745 said:


> This is what cuts me up so much, and annoyingly it makes sense, but I want to find a way to get that feeling with her. Can I do this if I never have before? *What is this feeling?* Is this something that our MC can help with tomorrow night?


It's the feeling of adultery. Adulterous sex is the best sex of all because it violates all the rules of behavior. If you start up an affair with her after she divorces you and marries the new guy, you might get close. But you'll have to learn some kinky sh!t to pull on her to get her there. Your wife's brain is fried in a stew of sex and attraction chemistry.



User_8745 said:


> I'm still not sure she is 100% sure that she knows what she's doing still. I've put this to her a few times and she says that her heart says this is right, it's like a tug of war with her heart on one end and the material things on the other end - kids, house, job etc.


A monkey don't let go of one vine until the other hand has a firm grasp on the next vine. She's been working up to this for a long time.



User_8745 said:


> And wow that is a hell of an action list.


That it is. Which means you need to get to work building the new you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?
> 
> In tears right now


User,

Stop crying and start getting mad as in pissed off!!!!!

COpy all the crap out of her phone or better yet take her phone and walk over to the OM's house. Wait till he leaves and then pay his wife a visit.

You need to end her Affair no matter if your Reconcile of Divorce.

Your wife is a selfish, cheating b!tch.

The sooner you realize it the quicker you can man up!!!

Then out her Affair to the world. That is a consequence you need her to feel. Not out of revenge but because she is actively destroying your marriage and your family.

So stop crying and go to war.

And yes my friend you are at ware with your darling wife. Read those messages again and realize it now.

So get going!!!

HM64


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?


Sorry man. That's just the way it always is. Everyone called it. Follow the stuff on the post I made and pay attention to the much more concise post from Sandc. Read his post very carefully and do it all. Hard 180. Be rude, grow fangs and show them frequently. Act like Sean Connery would act if he were married to your wife, but don't hit her. He would, but you shouldn't. Everything else, though.

Can the MC tomorrow and go get an attorney to start the divorce. Be cold as ice to her, kick her out if you can get her out. The kids stay with you.

No, and i mean absolutely no more relationship discussion of any type with her unless and until she's on her knees. By then, you'll probably already have a couple of new girls on your string and won't even be interested.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

OK user, pay attention. 
Everything was fine until she STARTED the affair. Yeah, you was too passive in your marriage, but until she started the affair, you was just coasting along.

The affair NEVER stopped. ChumpLady called it with the competition an hoops she was enjoying you jumping thru.

Your problem started when you saw her as someone who could do no wrong. Therefore they have been playing with you.
She was NEVER, and I mean NEVER going to leave you. Why should she ???

You clean, you cook, you babysit, you jump thru hoops to please her, you give her all the time she wants to screw her man, you pay for her vacations, buy her anything she wants, hell you even take sloppy seconds and don't complain. 

It has all been a game to her, probably edged on by him to see how far she could make you jump.

And what are you doing ?? CRYING !!!!
Well get it out then get furious, yes furious. Your anger has not motivated you so far, so hopefully furious will.

Now I'll share a lil sum sum. This woman does not LOVE you !!
This woman does not respect you. She loves having a puppet and servant to wash her wet drawers. YOU.

Are you ready to take back your manhood ??

Forward those txts and emails to your phone or computer. Makes copies.
You are about to go nuke his and her world by exposing to all far and wide.
YES even the job. His wife kicked him out because of your wife.
Ppl TOLD you to contact his wife, but NNNOOOOO you trusted your cheater. If you had contacted her, you might have found out months ago what you now KNOW from her phone.
DAMNNNNNNNNNNN she is so secure that she have you jumping, that she saw no reason to delete that evidence. Which is a good thing for you. 
If you can hold out until the morning, the first thing you need to do is go get ALL the money Out of any joint accounts and put it in one with ONLY your name on it.
Then close all CC jointly held.
That may take up the morning. 
Then you go to her job and start your exposure.
From there you start calling family and friends. After that will be seeing a lawyer.
You was worried about ruining her rep, but she had you cleaning him didn't she ??? So what rep does she have.

AND please don't let her know you have the proof

There was many times I want to post while reading this thread. Just reading how you was defending what all here could see. I would not be surprised if your thread is the one that got LM banned.
Man it was REALLY REALLY hard to follow and not call you out.

Be Well Brother.


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh User,

I'm sorry we where right mate..

And from her reaction to all of this, your marriage is over. Nothing you can say or do will change how she feels.

She WILL regret doing this to you, she will suffer, it may be a long time until she does, but she will FACT, the fog will lift and it'll hit her. All she's done to you, your children, your lives, the ***** will pay, what goes around comes around. She'll be as hurt and sad as you are now.
By then as long as you hold it together, you'll be a new man, and the thought of having her back will make you laugh! 

What choice do you have but to hold it together, you are a Father, I noticed an INSTANT change in my children when I stopped behaving like a little gimp. NG's breed NG's they learn everything about how to be around women from their Dad, you need to show them that being a doormat is unacceptable, think about how you'd feel if you where reading your posts as though your grown up children where posting them.

There's a lot from NMMNG that you can utilise in your Fatherhood, I tell my kids how perfect they are, just as they are, as often as possible. I've always been a great Dad, and I have no doubt whatsoever that you are too. But you are lacking so much self respect, you can't teach something you don't know.

YOU are the most important person to you, everything else will fall into place when you pick yourself up, stay away from the songs that remind you of her, the smells, the buildings, anything that 'triggers' the feelings of devastation. Start taking mental notes of the things that do trigger you, and work on disassociating them from your wife.
Stupid things, there was a bar in town that we used to go to all the time, it would physically hurt walking past it, and I had to often. So I, and I'm not recommending this but had a wizz up the wall, got chased down the road by a chef (fully dough boy looking geezer) waving a rolling pin, now everytime I walk past it, it makes me crack up laughing.
Things still creep up, bastard songs on the radio, but smile at strangers, try and get the look from a hot chick while it's playing, then that trigger isn't so bad.

Apply logic to the things that are logical. I would imagine you are quite a logical, common sense kind of guy, it seems many NG's share this trait. Your retarded partner isn't logical, so it's wasted there!

NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING you say or do will turn your wife around right now, all words are wasted on her, other than 'get the **** out of my house' and my lawyer will be in touch regarding the next stage of our divorce....now **** off'

*Coming out your comfort zone makes you uncomfortable right? Well you are in your comfort zone at the moment, and are you in the slightest bit comfortable??* Step out of it, it's like getting into the cold ocean, at first it's too hard to bear, but stick with it and it's not long before you're splashing around like loon, watching other people dip their toes in, frowning and afraid to get in, even though you are just in front of them, submerged up to your neck, nice and toasty in oceanness, they can't see that they have to just make the leap, until they do!
You also have a responsibility to show your children who are watching you, questioning weather they should get in themselves, seeing you turn away from it, they will, get on in there with a face of strength, and they'll follow you.

WORK OUT, really hard! Not only does it remind you that you are in complete control of your body, and your mind, but it has health benefits, and is the best tool for confidence building. Girls smell a guy who's working out a mile off!
When I first started back into it my 1 year old cat was like 'whaaaaaat are you doing' it was embarassing! Now he's used to it, and I'm looking and feeling the best I ever have done. Try it, focus on it, get hooked on it for now, channel your anger, it's nearly impossible to hurt when you are pushing your body to it's limits.

You will of put a lot of things off while you've been married, do something for yourself now. Take the money you would of spent pissing up the wall at MC and buy something, get a new gadget, a remote control car, iphone 5, whatever floats your boat (if you are lucky enough financially, literally float a boat)

You will have people that know you, if they aren't close friends, they will be soon. Go out for a beer, sit alone if you have to, watch people, we are all just mammals, no different to Lions or Wilderbeast, we wonder around doing ****....so wonder around and do ****. You'll connect with complete strangers, random conversations with people that you never thought you'd end up talking to.

Take the pain, feeeeel the pain, the hurt, please stop trying to do things in order to get her back, in order to respect you, it's not self respect if you are doing it for someone else..

*AND SEE A LAWYER NOW* the heartache you feel from this is unimaginably hard, but losing your children would be so much worse than this. Might not seem possible to feel worse right now, but I'm sure it does! See the professionals, let them take care of what you can't see as being a problem right now. PLEASE PLEASE SEE A LAWYER mate.
Record your conversations with her, in case she gets nasty, she'll want you to still be at her beck and call, and when you aren't you'll see a whole new side to your wife. She can't make up lies to anyone when you have proof.

She hurt you man, she's not who you think she is, take charge of you!

Keep us updated, and keep posting when you feel the need. I look back on my old threads (LessOfaMan, I was encouraged to change it) I look back and cringe, I can't believe how soft I was being, I can't believe I wrote 90% of what I did under that username!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I don't think you peeps are seeing what I see.

She has been sleeping with this guy all along, and was just making him jump thru hoops for fun and giggles for her and posom.

I don't think User will be back. I just hope he don't go off the deep end. 

User, if you make it back, just breath man, breath. Take BIG breaths.
This too WILL pass man. Just breath for now. 
If you have to go sleep at a relative for the night.


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## User_8745 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi everyone

So, I made it through the night sleeping on the floor in my sons room, somehow got through this morning and told her again that she's making a big mistake (sorry, can't help it), and then came in to work. After reading her phone last night I texted my Mum and asked her to come over today (she lives 2 hours drive away), she called immediately and I told her everything. She should be with me in about an hour.

So, the texts. First, reading them gave me the anger and the fury that you've all been asking for. Previously I was gutted that she was doing this, but now I'm furious t hat she lied right out to me that she wasn't having much contact with him. Lots of "i love you", "can't wait to be with you", "can't wait to get into bed with you" etc. Fuels my belief even more that it's just a physical affair and she hasn't fully considered the emotional side of her future. Also she went out on Saturday night to drop a card off with a friend, turns out instead of going to the pub with her, she went with OM. More lies.

So, our counselling session is planned for tonight, her Mum and Dad are coming over to babysit and one thing I'm tempted to do is cancel the session and with my Mum and her parents in the room, get the whole truth out. Her parents know all but that there has been a physical affair, my Mum only heard about it last night but has a link to this thread so hopefully has caught up a bit. One of the things I said to my wife last night is that she's never once got the full truth out on the table and let us try and deal with it, so hopefully in the presence of her parents she might be able to do that.

While I'm on the subject of parents, my Mum left my Dad 3 years ago for another man. That only lasted a short while, but my Mum then moved in with another guy (who was a school friend and my dads best man) and they are still together and happy. Not sure what bearing that has on this, but I thought worth bringing to the table. Unfortunately my Dad is on holiday in South Africa at the moment, otherwise I'd have him involved too.

@MattMatt It is relate and its tonight. But as I've said above, I'm not sure it's worth going.

@anchorwatch I want to expose it. I think.

@sandc Thanks for the list, seems doable. The worry I have about the start going out bit, is that it'll look like I'm walking away from the kids as well, and I don't know how that will affect me. I love the fact that I'm close to my kids when they sleep, and I'm there for them when they need me. But ultimately I need to prep myself for a future without her, I understand that now, as much as it seems empty and void.

@SandyLady80 A lot of that rings true, with the messages I found last night I think that it an addiction, and I think both parties are having that basic emotion of being wanted serviced more with each other than they did in their current marriages. So many of the messages I read were about attraction and physical stuff, nothing about the future or anything like that apart from a couple of "spend my life with you" type things. While she's in this mindset, I think her answer to whether she wants to save the marriage will be no.

@ladybird Tempted to speak to OM's wife, I might do that today. Unlikely that I'll get much work done.

@jnj express At the moment we have no spare small rooms in our house! Appreciate the rest though, thanks. Money side is interesting, we have a joint account for bills etc and spending on the kids, other than that I'm not sure what we can do.

@Machiavelli Erm, thanks 

@OldWolf57 That's so tough to read, but I guess what I needed. I really should have forwarded those emails last night but for some reason I didn't, now I have no record of them. Not to say that I can't do it tonight or something.
The money side is tough, as I said above we have a joint account that covers mortgage and bills, I can't really empty that can I ? We don't have any joint credit card accounts.

@MoreOfaMan I hope she will regret it, I really do. But what will that matter to me.

There are a couple of things that are really key to this within me, and probably stopping me from letting it go like I maybe should.

1. I love being there, all the time, for my kids. I love taking them to and picking them up from nursery 4 days a week, I love being there in the night when they cry out, I love getting up with them in the morning and playing with toys, I love teaching them to ride a bike, swimming with them, playing football with my son, making their dinner, dressing them etc etc etc. A divorce will mean I will only get to do half of that.

2. We've build up such a good life, we have a nice house, good jobs, all the material stuff you could want. A divorce would mean I lose half of that - from a 4 bed detached to a small 3 bed semi at most.

3. I love forward to a future as a family, where we holiday together (we've already planned Disneyworld for 2019!), we build our lives together, we watch our kids do their first school plays together, we laugh and cry in times of need together. All of that will be gone, and that will leave a massive hole in my life. Granted, I may be able to find someone else to fill it, but they will never have the connection with my kids that my wife does.

I've spoken to my HR Director this morning and she has sent me a link to a private counselling service, a couple who apparently have an excellent track record and have turned marriages around in hours. Is it worth pursuing that route ? 

Thanks again for your continued words. Having read those messages last night I believe more than ever that my wife is caught in the fog still but if she can't see that then that's going to be her problem and I'm going to have to live with the consequences.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is in the fog but treating her like a victim will get you nowhere. She will be extremely selfish in what she wants and you cannot expect to be fair. Did you read Disenchanted and Carlton's thread. Read them immediately. Your wife's affair is no different, only you are more passive and accepting of her cheating ways. She does not respect you and she will not respect you as long as you behave like this. Find your anger!!! You don't even have half the truth of her affair even now.This woman was lying to you for the past one year!! Don't be in denial. Your family as it is ended. And you cannot rebuild it while being scare of losing it. You have to be prepared to lose your way of life to have a chance of regaining it!! begging and rationalizing with her about the affair will get you nowhere!!!

And your mother is the worst person to take the advice from. Just have her as support but don't ask her for advice!!

And inform this guy's wife immediately. There is a chance that he will dump your wife for his kids. Don't bet on it but it might help in bringing more clarity to your wife's mind. 

And do you still want to R after all these lies and treating you worse than dirt ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, you were all right all along. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?
> 
> In tears right now


Notice this. you are the only one surprised!!. This was what people were telling you all along. Follow the advice here even if it goes against your gut or instinct!! You are too used to being the nice rational guy but now is not the time for that. Your behavior will only make sure you will lose the family definitely.

Expose the OM. Call the company HR and tell them. Call his wife and tell her. Get access to your wife mails and save them as evidence(or forward them to your mail)


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Go back to the early pages of advise you received to deal with it, just remember most of the people stated she was having a physical affair, they were right, they knew because they have suffered through it. You fought them now please listen to the advise of MattMatt, Warlock 07, etc if Lord Mayhem were here and Bandit they would also tell you.

1. EXPOSE the Affair to her family your family if she works with him expose it to the workplace.
2. DO THE 180
3. Seperate your finances, NOW!!!!
4. DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE
5. Expose the Affair to the OMW.
6. Get tested for STDs
7. Talk to an Attorney about Divorce and start getting ready for it.
8. Have her sleep in another room, you did not have the affair why should you suffer in your nights sleep.
9. Pack her bags and take her and them over to the OM and drop her and the bags off.

Either get going or she is going to continue to wipe her feet on you as her affair continues.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Before saving the marriage, you need to save yourself


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

You are using your children....they are your excuse for why you should stay. I've been there, for a lot longer than before she cheated. Truth, and reality is all the waking up when they cry at night, playing with toys etc wont stop, you will still see them, and when you do it's just you...and them...you've missed them since the last time, every moment you spend with them will be far more valuable than when you are spending your time wondering weather or not she's at it again, being the doormat.
Do you really want to show them that as an adult, it's ok to COMPLETELY neglect their own needs and suffer??
Don't you dare use your children as a reason to continue being so cuckolded.

Let's go with the best outcome after mum comes (I don't agree with that btw, you are a grown man) A heads up here - if you continue down the growth path you where on a few pages ago, you'll come to learn a lot about why you are a soft touch, and different outlooks on many aspects of your childhood will form, remember there's a reason you are programmed to seek approval etc) You need to stand on your own two feet now.
Anyway best outcome, she agrees to have no contact, and states she wants to make it work....look you know that isn't going to happen mate, it's not just physical, it's emotional, 'I love yous' don't come from getting good kinky sex here and there. But she says she loves you and you enter reconciliation straight away, and therefore it will fail. She'll still think about him, and when you start changing the way you treat yourself and stand up to her she needs to accept that.
The road to what you want, is long and hard, she still says she can't work out which one she wants. She CAN'T just decide to choose you and all will be wonderful. Unless right now, there's 10 missed calls from her, dozens of messages about how sorry she is, and she's sat downstairs at your workplace waiting for you to come out, She won't be able to take what is necessary for the dream you have of holidays, and true love to happen.

I want your marriage to work, but she's still seeing this guy, it's been going on for a long time, she said she loves him, she looked at you and told you she doesn't know if she wants you or him.....why can't you see that buddy. Reconciling is HARD and means her head needs to be fully engaged on making it work. Do you understand what it means to have her head fully engaged on making it work, do you know what she has to do, how she has to behave?? No...so you can't tell her. Telling her she needs to be focused on you, things are going to change and she has to support you through it is not going to register with her.

Look at how you won't listen to people here, farrr wiser than me with this, you can't see what others see because you are consumed in your own fantasy of a perfect marriage to this woman. We keep telling you, but you won't listen.....now apply that to her.....she's not going to listen to you, she can't grasp it, she can't see what you want her to see. You'd be better off grabbing the next woman you see in the street and telling them that they need to love you, your wife is gone. All doesn't have to be lost, long term, but for now drop it. You say she's addicted, you are too, more so... you're staging an intervention for her. A heroin junkie staging an intervention for a pill popper.
If the two of you are going to live the life you dream off, you have to forget about it, and focus on YOU

Was she in the marital bed, while you where on the floor??????? Way to show her who's boss mate. It's your bed now, if she ever wants in it again she has to want to be

Re-read this whole thread, start to finish read it. You where/hopefully still are regardless of your last post - so close, Paddy put the pipe down, sober up again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Listen to Warlock.

You need to put yourself in the right place.

Do not think that because you are having an INTERVENTION with her parents and your Mom that this is going to change her.

From what you have said she has no problem with lying and she may be all sweetness and light "Oh, I have seen the error of my ways and will now be the faithful wife." Anything she says from now on needs to be completely vetted, verified, followed up on and certified. YOU CANNOT BELIEVE ANYTHING SHE SAYS OR ANYTHING SHE SAYS SHE WILL DO!!! At this point in time.

The marriage you had is OVER. That is your reality now.

Get yourself in order, that is your primary goal so that you can be there for your children.

The woman who lives in your house is no longer your wife, she is someone who is taking advantage of you.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

MoreOfaMan said:


> You are using your children....they are your excuse for why you should stay. I've been there, for a lot longer than before she cheated. Truth, and reality is all the waking up when they cry at night, playing with toys etc wont stop, you will still see them, and when you do it's just you...and them...you've missed them since the last time, every moment you spend with them will be far more valuable than when you are spending your time wondering weather or not she's at it again, being the doormat.


Exactly. You could not have stated it more accurately.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And your mother is the worst person to take the advice from. Just have her as support but don't ask her for advice!!


Verdammt straight. STBXWW probably got the idea from seeing User's mother in action.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> So, our counselling session is planned for tonight, her Mum and Dad are coming over to babysit and one thing I'm tempted to do is cancel the session and with my Mum and her parents in the room, get the whole truth out. Her parents know all but that there has been a physical affair, my Mum only heard about it last night but has a link to this thread so hopefully has caught up a bit. One of the things I said to my wife last night is that she's never once got *the full truth out on the table and let us try and deal with it,* so hopefully in the presence of her parents she might be able to do that.


User, I agree to cancel the MC, but this meeting you're cooking up, shouldn't be an "intervention" to fix your wife's problem, or "deal with it" as you put it. If you try to do that, it won't work because your STBXWW won't allow it. You need to do exactly three things and three things only in this meeting: #1 get the truth out to the families; #2 announce the divorce to the families; #3 tell your wife to get out the door with her parents. Kids stay with you. Your WM can stay and babysit.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is a link to a page you might print off and have your wife read, with a quote from it.

Infidelity Statistics



Affairs affect one of every 2.7 couples, according to counselor Janis Abrahms Spring, author of After the Affair,as reported by the Washington Post on March 30, 1999. Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years. 
A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers. 


Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Many studies have found that only 3 out of 100 affairs turn into a long term relationship.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> Just checked her phone, *you were all right all along*. My God this hurts even more, how can someone be so evil to someone who they spent 10 years of their life with?
> 
> In tears right now



Sorry OP I don't mean to be harsh.

But in the short time I have been on this forum you would not believe the amount of times I have seen this statement or very similar.

I wish that there was a folder on CWI with all the "you were right all along and my ideal, beautiful princess/prince has the morals of an alley cat" But the sad thing is that even if that stickie existed and there were hundreds of examples in it people such as yourself still would refuse to take any notice.

OP your thread is titled 'Help me save my marriage' but as far as I can see you have not taken *any* of the advice given here. Your response to the advice given is to turn around and basically say "I am going to be extra super duper nice to her and persuade her she is making the wrong decision."

Your latest plan is to get your mummy and mumy and daddy in law to come and tell her off (perhaps they might put her in the naughty corner). You do realise that that is so weak don't you? By all means expose to family and work colleagues but USER_8745 should be sorting his own shet out.

You have, as far as I am concerned, two choices. Grow some and sort this out asap one way or the other.
Or wait until she gets fed up, decides to forgive you for pushing her away and lets you buy her some nice stuff to make up for it.

I can bet you one thing, no matter how gorgeous, nice, sexy your wife was before the affair there are thousands of women out there just as gorgeous, nice and sexy or even more so that would love to have what your wife had.

Sorry couldn't resist!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NOW are you ready to get mad?


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Your response to the advice given is to turn around and basically say "I am going to be extra super duper nice to her and persuade her she is making the wrong decision."
> 
> Your latest plan is to get your mummy and mumy and daddy in law to come and tell her off (perhaps they might put her in the naughty corner). You do realise that that is so weak don't you?


I hate to say it but I'm beginning understand how User drove his wife into another man's bed with his invirile behavior. Now he thinks ratcheting up his approach is the answer to his problem. He ain't being convinced by us old dogs that it ain't something women find sexy. I'm afraid he's going down hard on this one.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

User_8745 said:


> While I'm on the subject of parents, my Mum left my Dad 3 years ago for another man. That only lasted a short while, but my Mum then moved in with another guy (who was a school friend and my dads best man) and they are still together and happy. Not sure what bearing that has on this, but I thought worth bringing to the table. Unfortunately my Dad is on holiday in South Africa at the moment, otherwise I'd have him involved too.



I would think your mom is the wrong person to give you advice or counsel given her history. With her history, she'll tell your wife to move in with the other man for a short while and then move in with your best friend.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> I hate to say it but I'm beginning understand how User drove his wife into another man's bed with his invirile behavior. Now he thinks ratcheting up his approach is the answer to his problem. He ain't being convinced by us old dogs that it ain't something women find sexy. I'm afraid he's going down hard on this on.


And it's such a shame because from his posts he sounds like such a good guy.

He sounds intelligent, a good provider, wonderful with children and a thoroughly nice guy (I think you can be a nice guy without being THE nice guy) all he needs is a bit of steel up his backbone and he will make either this or his next wife a wonderful husband.
Hopefully he is going to start seething with controlled anger very soon, maybe we will see another side of USER_8745 soon.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You sound like a kind, gentle family man. My heart aches just reading what you write. Women are not rational on what they are attracted to. I think you can get this from all the comments here. As a woman, I can confirm that we typically want the kind and gentle family guy who isn't a bum around the house, but we definitely also want the passion and attraction.

You sound like you may never summon the anger that will switch on that passion and self-confidence. There are definitely women out there who themselves are gentle, kind, and most importantly, faithful. I wish one of those women for you.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

okay a getting the parents involved is a somewhat decent Idea. it is one thing to have to deal with your parents at arms length but when they are in your face it is harder. User may have his faults but at least he is attempting to change. What he is doing is essentially an intervention. Which could help. The one flaw maybe that user doesn't know what the reaction of the parents will be. Some parents for some messed up reason end up siding with their children when something like this happens. Because the WS has been feeding them all the BS about how bad the marriage is. 
User I am not one to beat around the bush so here Is my advice. You need Individual counceling now. and you need to understand why you have such an overwhelming fear of confrontation. You need to solve that or you will not fix your marriage. You did not drive you wife into another mans bed. Marriages all have issues, and we are all lacking in areas. From the words you have written you need to understand that without altering your behavior in regards to being extremely passive aggressive ,totally non-confrontational and fear of judgement from others, are behaviors that lead to the problems with in the marriage. Your wife chose to stop working on the issues and go find someone else. You are not responsible for her actions. You are responsible for creating a lot of problems before the affair. You can see it in the way you try to spin negative remarks and contradict them. You can see it in the way that it took pages and pages of people telling you "you were rugsweeping" for you to stop coming up with alternate interpretations and trying to get us to see things in a different perspective. 

Please try to see that you don't need to worry about how things look to us. We are trying to help.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

User_8745 said:


> ...
> 
> While I'm on the subject of parents, *my Mum left my Dad 3 years ago for another man. That only lasted a short while, but my Mum then moved in with another guy (who was a school friend and my dads best man) and they are still together and happy. *Not sure what bearing that has on this, but I thought worth bringing to the table.


You are not your father, your mum is not your wife. 
Are you mirroring your dad's actions during their split? Did it work for him?

Regardless, you need to take control of your life. Act with dignity and demand respect. If you remain married, demand the respect a married man should have - especially from his wife. If there is no respect or trust there can be no LOVE or the basis for a successful marriage. 

Sending strength across the ocean to you.


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

Come on user, where are you!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

OK, maybe you didn't understand EXACTLY what I said, so I will make it VERY PLAIN !!

Your wife was NEVER going to leave you for all the reason you listed.
She has played you to keep you jumping thru hoops while she was screwing him. 
She KNOW YOU DUDE !!! she knew HOW you would react to her threats of D and you fell for it. SHE KNOW YOU !!! I can't say that enough. She knew a D was is your WORST fear, and you would be devoted to pleasing her, instead of checking to see if she was still cheating.

And even NOW, you are still following her script to the tee.
CANCEL the MC. PACK her stuff !! and send her with her parents.
This is your ONLY chance to save your intergrity an manhood in her eyes.
YOU, have to flip the script on her now, and make her chase you.

All this I may, I might, if only is NOT going to work. 
YOU have to show her you are letting her go to scare her back.
Do you really think she want to be stuck babysitting every night, after living with a servant and babysitter all this time. 
Where in the hell will she find a man to do the shlt you do ???

So you have the power now.
I said move the money into an account only you control. You don't need her ok for that. Just go and leave just enough to keep the account open. Don't you know how to pay bills by now ?? 

Your actions tonight should be exposing to her parents and friends, then exposing to om wife. So STOP the damn waffling and find that backbone if you want to keep those kids family together.
REMEMBER this, she was NEVER going to leave you, NEVER. 
It was all a ploy man. So you MUST show her you are not that guy anymore,and it YOU who is pulling the trigger.

Look back at how she played you. EVERYTIME you thought things was fine, she would pull the " I still don't have those feeling for you yet ". And you would JUMP thru more hoops trying harder. 

Do you want to know why she would do it. She didn't want you getting to comfortable. You might notice something if you did.
AND you know from the emails and txts that she was doing him all the while.
EXPOSE him and her. KICK her out tonight.

User I truly hope you can do this, but feel you can't. So I'm going to lay it out like this.

If you let her slide with a lil remorse tonight, with promises to behave, the A is going to go UNDERGROUND an d she is going to guilt you back into line.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

This is no fog, this is an evil deceitful woman having her cake.
Thats why the emails are all physical stuff and nothing about their future together.

YOU BEEN PLAYED BIG TIME !!!!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Ok, now that your trusting and good tender heart has been shyt on, now is the time to take a look at other options.

Let me offer this one.

*START THINKING ONLY ABOUT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN. *
Put away all your thoughts on how you are going to help your wife out of her fog.

You are now in a battle for your emotions and your children’s welfare; your wife is not in your top priorities anymore.

First get support from those that you know that have your best interest at heart (MOM?). Get all the good help you can and *GET A PLAN.* The plan will help you get better about being an emotional slave to your wife’s betrayal and will help you from getting so weak that you become a door mat and dish rag. *KEEP YOU MIND ON THE PLAN NOT YOUR WIFE!*

This plan is for you to do anything and everything that would benefit you and your children. This plan will help offset the damage that your wife has done to the marriage and to the children that will suffer the consequences of having a mother that puts her feeling from another man above their father.

As you have found out you have only control over you so quit spending any time on trying to change your wife. She has made a definite decision and now it is up to her to make that decision permnanent or not.

Don’t think that you have to get everything done in a week or two you have months and years to be improving. Be patient and determined. You can use your pain to motivate you to improve yourself in many ways. 

Yes you will be hurting as you execute your plan but here is a truth. 
*YOU WILL BE HURTING WITH EXECUTING YOUR PLAN OR WITHOUT EXECUTING YOUR PLAN.* 
Your choice; one will get you a lot better and the other will leave you floundering, defeated, and pitiful.

This plan is good if your wife and you recover and reconcile or if you do not. 
When you improve you will be more attractive to women (and maybe your wife) and most importantly to you and your children.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

The Poster appears to have left the discussion. Probably going back into the "Nice Guy" mode.

Sorry to see it happen, she will continue to use him.


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## MoreOfaMan (Jul 25, 2012)

No he'll be back, he's seen it, caught a glimpse of what he's doing to himself, and his children. He won't put up with it for long. Just hope he doesn't snap, or just close his eyes to what's happening. 

What's new User? Speak up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/56310-need-help-ww.html


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