# The cheater who wants to change



## pmw633

I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


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## jorgegene

it's really up to her if she wants to give you another chance.

but, yes, people can change. 

my best advice is to always remember the idiotic thing you did and own it completely. 
some people might say to try and forget the bad things we've done, but i say the opposite.
remember it always and live with it. 
use the pain and upheaval it caused to you and your wife and family as motivation to never do it again.

ever.


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## sunsetmist

TRUST is forever broken, crushed, life will never, never be the same.

Reconciliation likely depends on the details too--how many times, how long with whom, ages, details about children, values, character, etc.

Cheating is about choice, indulgence and selfishness--can you cure that?

@Affaircare has lots of good advice on cheating--search this out or ask her.
-------------------------------
Otherwise:

In order for a true reconciliation to work, Wayward spouse (you) has to;
- break all contact with AP, no ifs ands or buts about it, this is not just a respect thing but a chemical thing. As long as they are in contact with AP, the limerence is still working and they won't break free from the drug or feel good chemicals of the affair,
- be completely remorseful--this is huge--research it...you must do the work--heavy lifting we call it...
- completely transparent, you must have all logins to all accounts, tech devices, etc.
- be accountable for whereabouts for the foreseeable future,
- open and willing to do counseling, activities to forming the new marriage that will have to be formed after the affair,
- be open to questions from betrayed spouse and NOT have the attitude of just moving on, that's what is called rug sweeping.

Read the books--one is: How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald ---------you find the others...

I stole bits and pieces --much--of the above from someone, I don't remember who.

From a betrayed: The problem I have with cheating isn't that "ooooh he slipped one time and enjoyed touching another woman" it's that he DECIDED to RISK all that we built together and hurting me just for a ****, just because she happened to be available to him at that moment. So at the moment of his decision, HE was the one flushing our entire life down the drain, and not me, when I judged him for it. How is that love? Plus, If I forgive him, that is basically me telling him and myself: "I allow you to hurt me". How could he respect me after that? How could I respect myself? I am the one who has to live with that from that day on. 

You will never know what you have done, until it is done to you!


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## sokillme

[email protected] said:


> but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important.


People are what they do, not what they say. You can't SAY you are a good person and make that so. You betrayed your entire family and yourself. Accept that first and then work to make up for it with the rest of your life. 

You didn't just make a mistake you change the nature of who you are.

You can do that again but it takes an Olympian effort. Most people don't have it in them. Again you change the nature of who you are, it's hard to change that again.

By the way you should change your user name so it's not an email address.


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## personofinterest

I would echo the sentiment to get How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair and Surviving an Affair. YOU need to be doing the heavy lifting.

I would also recommend changing your username so that it is NOT your email address.


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## Prodigal

[email protected] said:


> ... but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important.


The thing is, truly good people aren't weak and selfish, nor do they lose focus of what is important.


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## NobodySpecial

Good people make mistakes. Serious, life altering mistakes. It is called being human. The posters who are saying otherwise may never have cheated. But they are forgetting some of their own mistakes, I am thinking. NO ONE gets through life without them. 

Honestly, this is the worst place in the world for a wayward. I would go so far as to say the internet is going to turn you around, upside down and inside out with the various opinions.

My advice would be don't just focus on fixing your marriage by itself. Use IC to understand why you did what you did and how to be the person you want to be going forward.


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## pmw633

First, I have a request in to change my name, it's not an option, unfortunately. 

Second, I hear everyone's points of views and recommendations. I have a lot to do and think about, and I will look into getting a copy of the book you recommend I very much appreciate.


Thank you all


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## TJW

[email protected] said:


> Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them.


You won't find much sympathy here on this website. In fact, I must admit that I am among the least sympathetic here.

However, I have something to say to you. I don't mean it to be condemnatory. I want you to know something which I know, having been the BS, that will help you.

Your BS wants you to "get it". I mean, what your actions and choices did to her, and your children. How it hurt her, how it hurt them, and that you will "do the work" necessary to ensure that it never happens again.

I can tell you, from the BS side of it, that if my XW had demonstrated even the smallest inkling of how this hurt me and our kids, and was willing to set herself up into a PROFESSIONAL counseling/therapy program aimed at finding the lack of morality which caused her to make these horrible choices, and complete said program UNTIL I was satisfied that she "got it".... our marriage could have continued.
@NobodySpecial has the right advice. Concentrate on fixing yourself. Do not adopt this "good person, weak" mantra. The "selfish" part, you can keep that, and make that the focus of the "fix" being applied. 

I cannot say whether your wife wants to complete your reconciliation. But if she does, and you fix yourself, your marriage will follow.


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## NobodySpecial

TJW said:


> You won't find much sympathy here on this website. In fact, I must admit that I am among the least sympathetic here.
> 
> However, I have something to say to you. I don't mean it to be condemnatory. I want you to know something which I know, having been the BS, that will help you.
> 
> Your BS wants you to "get it". I mean, what your actions and choices did to her, and your children. How it hurt her, how it hurt them, and that you will "do the work" necessary to ensure that it never happens again.
> 
> I can tell you, from the BS side of it, that if my XW had demonstrated even the smallest inkling of how this hurt me and our kids, and was willing to set herself up into a PROFESSIONAL counseling/therapy program aimed at finding the lack of morality which caused her to make these horrible choices, and complete said program UNTIL I was satisfied that she "got it".... our marriage could have continued.
> @NobodySpecial has the right advice. Concentrate on fixing yourself. Do not adopt this "good person, weak" mantra. The "selfish" part, you can keep that, and make that the focus of the "fix" being applied.
> 
> I cannot say whether your wife wants to complete your reconciliation. But if she does, and you fix yourself, your marriage will follow.


Since I am mentioned in this reply, I have to say

I am NobodySpecial and I do not endorse this message.


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## wilson

We're going to need a lot more details to be able to give you any advice. Like, how long was the affair, how did it get started, etc.

The problem with most cheaters is that the flaw which allowed them to cheat also means it's unlikely they will actually be reformed. Even now you are being selfish trying to work it out. *YOU* don't want to lose *YOUR* family. What about what she wants? What would make her the most happy for the rest of *her* life? If getting divorced is the best thing for her, will you eagerly support that decision? 

If you want to stay with her, you need to make it clear that you will really do the work to make it up to her. That will be a life-long challenge and require a lot of change in you. Are you willing to do that?


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## MattMatt

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


 @[email protected] Hi. It's probably best not to use an email address as your login name. Spammers, etc.

Please pm @EleGirl who is an admin who can fix this for you.


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## MattMatt

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


Oh, dear. Some of us have been exactly where you have. Well done for taking ownership of what you did.

I'll move your thread to Coping With Infidelity.

And please strap in. You'll be in for a somewhat bumpy ride!


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## Hopeful Cynic

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


No truly good person would be so weak and selfish that they cause such irreparable damage to your family.

So you need to analyze yourself to figure out why you are weak and selfish instead of good, and put in the work to change that. Changing an adult personality is HARD.

And you may find that even if you put in the effort (and therapy) required, that it has no effect on your wife and the damage you did.

You can't fix what you did. You can only demonstrate that you are working hard to not ever cause the same damage again in the future.

For starters, I'd suggest you seek out individual therapy, as you need to work on yourself before there's any possibility of working on your marriage.

Then, be respectful, honourable, honest and loving to your wife, even if that means supporting her decision to leave you.

She may be willing to stick around for your efforts at becoming a better person, or she may divorce you. She's not even going to be able to make that decision any time soon; she's still in shock for you turning her world upside-down right now. You have to want to put in the work anyway.

If you just want her to forgive you and forget what you did and move on with the marriage, then you are not a good person and have no intention of becoming one.

It's impossible to fix things and go back to the way things were. You can only fix yourself and see what she's willing to do with the new you. And frankly, because you lied and cheated, she's not going to easily trust the new you.


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## EleGirl

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine. 

But here on TAM the usually advice is to just divorce. I don't agree with that in most cases. You and your wife are the only two who can decide the outcome of all this.

The book that was suggested is a good one. You really do need to read it.

After that you should read that books "Lover Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Then get your wife to read them with you and do the work together. It will help you both rebuild your marriage into a much stronger one.


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## personofinterest

"About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine. 

But here on TAM the usually advice is to just divorce. I don't agree with that in most cases. You and your wife are the only two who can decide the outcome of all this."

It's called living vicariously and punishing by proxy.


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## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine.


I call bull**** on this. Where are you getting your data from? What does fine mean?


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## MattMatt

sokillme said:


> I call bull**** on this. Where are you getting your data from? What does fine mean?


Do you? Because you have a whole slew of data that puts the opposing point of view, right?

Oh. If you had the data, you would have used it to refute what @EleGirl said, wouldn't you?


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## sokillme

MattMatt said:


> Do you? Because you have a whole slew of data that puts the opposing point of view, right?
> 
> Oh. If you had the data, you would have used it to refute what @EleGirl said, wouldn't you?


Seems to be all over the map.

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Rates_of_Divorce_for_Adultery_and_Infidelity


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## Diana7

Can you tell us what sort of affair you had? I think that more may be able to stay with a cheater if it was a once off, but not if it was a long term affair with the decision to cheat was made many many times. 

You say that you really love your wife and children, sorry, if you really loved them you would never have done what you did. You dont treat people who you love in this appalling way nor do you risk loosing them. 
Your affair was more important than them.


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## Diana7

EleGirl said:


> About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine.
> 
> But here on TAM the usually advice is to just divorce. I don't agree with that in most cases. You and your wife are the only two who can decide the outcome of all this.
> 
> The book that was suggested is a good one. You really do need to read it.
> 
> After that you should read that books "Lover Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Then get your wife to read them with you and do the work together. It will help you both rebuild your marriage into a much stronger one.


 I am highly disbelieving at that percentage. I know so many divorces that happened after affairs. Also I don't agree that they recover, they may stay together for all sorts of reasons(often out of fear of being alone or loosing their lifestyles), but they may well never really recover or ever be fine. 

I think its good in a marriage to make it clear that if this ever happens its over. Then they both know where they stand and can't be shocked when it happens. They know what they are risking. 

I would have no respect left for any man who did this, whether it be to me or to any woman he has been married to before. He hasn't the character or integrity that I would want in a man.


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## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> I call bull**** on this. Where are you getting your data from? What does fine mean?
Click to expand...

14. How often does infidelity result in divorce?

The divorce rate in the U.S. hovers somewhere around 40 to 50% but oddly enough, only about 15% of marriages break up because of infidelity. Research shows that "unreasonable behavior" accounts for about half of all divorces. 

https://www.creditdonkey.com/infidelity-statistics.html

when divorced individuals were asked open-endedly to provide their reasons for divorce, the most cited reasons were infidelity (21.6%),

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4012696/#

*That said, this thread jack ends now. The OP did not come here to read members arguing between each other.*


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## Affaircare

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


 @[email protected]

I am a person who is a former wayward spouse, and we successfully reconciled, so I'm living proof that "it can be done." However, I will caution you that true recovery is pretty rare because my definition of recovery is not just rugsweeping it and getting it back to "the way it was" but rather to actually learn and grow and become better people who build a new, healthy marriage. 

So before I get into answering your questions, I think a couple things need to happen. First, you need to realize that pity parties, calling yourself names, or acting like "woe is me because people tell her to leave me" is not going to help in this situation, so get over that. There's no need to degrade yourself, but some actual humility wouldn't hurt. 

Second, you need to accept the fact that YOUR ACTIONS have killed your marriage. Yep. What you did was commit adultery...don't use euphemisms like "mistake" or even "affair"--they sound gentle. Name it for what it is: committing adultery. And your wife may or may not have been a good spouse, but that was not what ultimately destroyed the marriage. Your adultery was the nuclear bomb that obliterated it. The natural consequence of committing adultery is the death of the marriage and the break up of the family. That's not anyone being judgemental or her being a *****...that's just the cost of committing adultery. EVERY choice has a cost and a benefit, and you got the benefit (the fun and thrill of someone pursuing you) Now you don't want to pay the cost. So just accept and admit the fact that the thing that naturally follows the choice to be unfaithful is losing the marriage and the break up of the family. That is what you rightfully deserve. 

Once you get to that point, then you might be able to begin recovering, and in order to truly recover, what has to happen is that you need to admit what you did fully to yourself and your spouse and your kids and everyone's family...and take full responsibility for yourself and what you did. Don't blame others. Don't blameshift. Accept it and take it, and be humble. 

After you've taken personal responsibility, you need to start changing how you think about marriage, commitment, character, honesty, spouses...pretty much everything. You need to learn about how marriage isn't focused on YOU getting YOUR NEEDS met, but rather that it's about your promise to spend the rest of your life getting to know your wife so well that you meet HER NEEDS. You need to learn that love isn't some fluffy feeling but rather it is an ACTION, namely treating someone in a loving way. If you are cheating on someone, breaking up their family, and betraying their trust... YOU ARE NOT LOVING THEM (no matter how you "feel"). You need ot learn that honesty means letting another (your wife and only your wife) see the Real You, warts and all, and not hiding your true thoughts and feelings from her--even if you think it will make her mad or upset. And once you've learned all those things you need to practice them...not just "think it."

After all of that, you start from the beginning. You aren't romantically in love with each other for a long time. You start as friends. You do some enjoyable things together. You have talks that are honest, like college friends that stay up way too late together solving world peace. You find out things you have in common again. You laugh with each other, and enjoy when you finally get to hold hands. You don't pressure her to "get over it" but giver her all the time she needs to process her grief--grief YOU caused!!!!! You let her check up on you so you can prove you are where you say you are...with who you said you'd be with. You rebuild trust by years and years and years of being trust WORTHY. 

See why not too many truly reconcile? It's a lot of really hard work. And...you are the one who messed it all up, so you are the one who needs to do most of the hard work! Now, she will have to be willing to give you the time. And she willl have to be willing to one day forgive you (but not now and not for a little while)...and you would need to eat that crow. 

Too often, those who cheat are not the ones willing to learn and grow for their partner's good. Waywards don't usually want to be that honest or put in the work to have to earn trust. So rather than get into the discussion about whether people USUALLY reconcile after an affair or not, here's what I'll say: I bet a lot of times the betrayed spouse does stay because they don't have great self-esteem or they don't want to lose the new house they just built. So they rugsweep it and just shut up. But that doesn't mean it's a loving, happy marriage--it's just not a divorce. People are rarely willing to do the work to mature and thus, the chances of an adulterer saying "Yep it was me. I was wrong and I'm willing to experience the consequences until we work it through"... tha'ts pretty slim. And THAT is what takes to truly recover. 

Sooooo...still interested?


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## WorkingWife

[email protected] said:


> I mean no offence to anyone here, but I fully admit to what I have done and my wife now knows. I am looking for support on how if it is possible to fix things. Is there any advice for me or can someone direct me to a site where I might get some help? We have a wonderful family with two kids, and I was a fool and an idiot and probably much worse things could be said for what I have done. It seems to be a consensus that if someone cheats you separate and leave the a$$hole me, but what if truly am a good person that is just week and selfish and lost focus of what is important. Is there no hope for me? I love my family and kids so so much I don't want to lose them. She hasn't fully decided what to do and we see a counsellor tonight.


Get and follow the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. Part of it is putting precautions into place so this can never happen again, and part is improving your marriage so eventually your wife will be so happy with the present relationship she stops ruminating on the pain the affair caused her. You can get really good help at www.marriagebuilders.com. That site is run by the author of the book.

If your wife won't give you a second chance, all you can do is become a better person and never do that to anyone again. But if this is the only time you cheated and you have children and you're a good provider and you have a happy marriage aside from this, your wife's logical choice would be to stay together so you do have a chance.

Can I ask - if you love your wife and love having a family, _*why *_did you cheat? I'm just curious, I've never been able to understand a happily married person doing that.


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## aine

pwm633, what happened, didn't like the responses?


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## personofinterest

aine said:


> pwm633, what happened, didn't like the responses?


Was probably hoping for more helpful posts like affaircare and less projection and jackassery


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> "About 85% of marriage in which an affair has happened recover and go on to be just fine.
> 
> But here on TAM the usually advice is to just divorce. I don't agree with that in most cases. You and your wife are the only two who can decide the outcome of all this."
> 
> It's called living vicariously and *punishing by proxy*.


I agree with this.


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## Welsh15

TJW said:


> You won't find much sympathy here on this website. In fact, I must admit that I am among the least sympathetic here.
> 
> However, I have something to say to you. I don't mean it to be condemnatory. I want you to know something which I know, having been the BS, that will help you.
> 
> Your BS wants you to "get it". I mean, what your actions and choices did to her, and your children. How it hurt her, how it hurt them, and that you will "do the work" necessary to ensure that it never happens again.
> 
> I can tell you, from the BS side of it, that if my XW had demonstrated even the smallest inkling of how this hurt me and our kids, and was willing to set herself up into a PROFESSIONAL counseling/therapy program aimed at finding the lack of morality which caused her to make these horrible choices, and complete said program UNTIL I was satisfied that she "got it".... our marriage could have continued.
> @NobodySpecial has the right advice. Concentrate on fixing yourself. Do not adopt this "good person, weak" mantra. The "selfish" part, you can keep that, and make that the focus of the "fix" being applied.
> 
> I cannot say whether your wife wants to complete your reconciliation. But if she does, and you fix yourself, your marriage will follow.


This is what my wife did. We are together 6 years later. Total remorse


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