# Going through stress over separation. Can my marriage be saved?



## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi, this is the first time i've ever posted on a forum for this kind of help but i need to talk to someone. I have been married for nearly four years, we've lived together for six, and have been together for eight years. We are both 24 and have three children. Over the past two months, my wife has started working late, spending the night with her friends and leaving me at home with the kids. When I expressed concern about this she told me that she was stressed out about financial matters, never had time for friends since we had been together having children since we were 17 years old. She exploded on me saying that she sacrificed so much for our marriage, that I went to college and she didn't, that I had had time with friends(I was in a band for three years when we first moved in together.) and that she hadn't and that she needed this to relax and that she wasn't going to stop and i just needed to get over this. I tried to assure her that I didn't have a problem with her hanging out with friends i just wanted her to come home with me and the kids. This went on about once a week. I asked her if she was happy and she said yes. 

I started getting depressed and my daily routine suffered. I spent a lot more time playing games on my computer to pass the time, I started smoking more, and I seriously neglected housework. My performance at work even started to decline. Even when she came home, our time together was brief and usually consisted of me sitting on one end of the couch on my laptop, and her on the other end watching tv. Sex didn't change very much, we still made love two times or so a week, so i didn't think anything was wrong. 

Then, she spent one more night away from home. I called her and she didn't talk very much. I asked her if everything was okay, she told me no. I was very worried, but I still got up the next day and took my oldest to school and got ready for work. When she came home the next day, we started to talk. I acted rather coolly and she acted as though everything was fine. We got back into that same conversation again. Finally she said she wasn't happy with anything about our lives. She said she was tired of the financial stress, tired of me not helping out around the house, and just generally unhappy. I asked her if she loved me and she said yes, but she didn't know if it was the same.

We spent the day together the next day with our oldest son and one of her friends from work, the one she's been spending the night with. She would hardly hold my hand, and if i went to kiss her she would kiss me back with absolutely no passion. We struggled through the day and we slept that night with no contact at all. The next day I was watching tv with my son and she asked me if I would take him out for a little while. We went out shopping and had lunch and when I came home, she said she needed to go for a drive. I asked her if she was coming home. She said yes and that she was sorry. I said "sorry? Sorry for what?" she said "I'm trying." and that was it. She came back three hours later and I said we needed to talk. I asked her if she had been thinking of us. She told me yes. I asked her if she was happy. She said no. I asked her if she still loved me. She said no, that she wasn't in love with me anymore. That she wasn't sure if she felt anything.

I got angry and confused. I took my car back from her, took her debit card and checkbook and told her to call someone to give her a ride to work. I waited until she got a ride. I told her that i love her kissed her on the forehead and told her to take care. I took my oldest son with me to my parent's house. I should have mentioned this earlier, but the other two kids are visiting her mother. 

I started to feel guilty about what I did so I called her the next day. I asked her how she was and if she had got to work okay. She was very upset with me an what I did so I made it a point to get her things back to her the next day. But that night I called her and started talking to her, taking blame for the things I've done. Told her I would change my ways, and I begged her for a second chance. I told her that we could fix this and I can make her happy again. She told me that she wasn't sure if she wanted this anymore. I told her goodbye and that I love her. She said I love you too, but I don't really think she meant it.

The next day, I took her her debit cards and checkbook and tried to give her some space but i couldn't help it. I told her, "You should want this, for us and our kids." She said that she can't be with someone who doesn't make her happy just because she has kids with them. I told her I was sorry and i left very disheartened. 

Over the next days I gave her space, only letting her son call her to tell his mommy goodnight, but he kept saying things like "daddy and me want you to come home." "We miss you" "We love you" and she thinks i put him up to it. 

She is currently staying in a hotel room, I don't know if she is alone or not. She is coming tomorrow to get the car and she said that she would come home on sunday to talk to me and spend sometime with her son. I talked to her very briefly last night, I asked if she was okay. I told her I love you again but this time she just said goodbye. 

Is it possible to save my marriage, or is it too far gone? Can I get through this? I have been entertaining all kinds of scenarios such as staying friends, being roommates, or her coming home and me staying with my parents just so our kids can have some normalcy. If she has made up her mind is it too late to fix it? I love my wife and children very much and I need some advice. Thank you and sorry this post is so long.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Might want to talk to her about the guy she is having an affair with. At least get it out in the open.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

get ahead of the curve...if she's still communicating with you but wants to avoid conversation about the relationship, talk about anything else. if she'll hang with you, go do stuff, fun stuff. get in tune with what trips her trigger. the 5 love languages book will clue you in. whatever love language she's fluent in, do thing for her in that vein.

mostly though, that taking the car and debit cards thing that you did, that's controlling and she ain't gonna respond well to that.

AND, telling her how she ought to feel (y'know, that thing about the kids and the relationship) you can't tell her how she OUGHT to feel, that logic don't add up to her right now.

so, keep that in mind, and good luck. this sucks i have experienced the separation thing it hurts.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

You have a wonderful opportunity here while she is away. Stop phoning her altogether for now - kids included. She can phone you if she needs anything.

While she is away, you need to work on yourself. Your view of yourself is terrible. You seem to lack confidence and self esteem. When you are back up to full steam, she will view you differently.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

She says she's coming home on Sunday to talk. I'm concerned that she is going to say that she's done and wants out. If she says this, does it mean give up? or is it pathetic to keep trying? I'm not sure if i'm ready to talk to her or face her yet. I'm scared and need some advice on how to handle this. I can't tell her not to come home. She wants to see her son. After all, is a few months of unhappiness (never any abuse, drugs or anything like that, and i dont think she's been having an affair) worth ending an 8 year relationship over? I think I'm starting to see her point of view a little better, but I love this woman and I pray every day for God to grant both of us guidance and wisdom. I'm making an appointment today to see a counselor by myself to get some input but I believe that talking to peers and people who are going through the same thing as me will help. Thank you again for listening.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

This person she spent the night with.. a girl, right? Either the girl is covering for her, or she might like the girl. Either way, you need to know what the hell is going on. After that, you ask her to go talk to someone to help save your marriage, if you still want her and the marriage to work.


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## Sabine (Sep 25, 2008)

I think that youa re being extremely egoistic and ahve been so for far too long!

yes its true she sacrified herself ofr you ad the kids while oyu ahd all the fun and get yourself an education while she didnt and now what?
you should have read books about it and keep yoruself informed about that kind tof things and i cant beleive that you were in a band and taking a degree while leaving her at home!
back then you didnt gave a damn that she was alone waiting for you and doing al the home cores did you?
now tha tits oyu you dont like the feeling.. but guess waht? she didntlike it either and she had to pull upnwith it for years.
She ask you to help ehr more with htibngs hoem and she also got a job outside, and what you do you do less than before.
What kinf of signal do oyu send ot her ?
and when she si home wha tyou do? you sit at the othe rend of the coach with your laptop, huh! how excciting! what an interesting husband i've got wwhor eally care about nme! waw! tomorrow i look forward to come home early and all! right+ or wrong?
you se what i mean?
you do absolutly nothing because oyu ahve been totaly spoiled and used to ahve her there FOR YOU and took her for granted,a nd now that she no longer is oyu dont know what to do cause oyu never did anything,.
You should be happy that she think of herself and do all to support her in it.
taking the car and credit cards from her si so darn mysogyn and dictatoric and paternalistic and so man dominating and you trying to control her that it makesme sick to think of it!
You reallythink that she desetre that and that you ahve any rights to do so?
i dont think so!
cause had she been working outside all the hours she worled home to raise the kinds an dclean oyur pants and iron your shirsts and take care of everything FOR YOU she will ahve 2 cars and much more money than oyu can dream of.
She earned that car and oyu cant say " i bought it for ´her", withotu her oyu will not haveanykids, without her to pass the kids oyu will ahve had to use that money for the car into nanaies and baby sitings and all ckind of excpensises to get the house clean and restaurant and gfood to be brought cook to you,
She si asking you for space and fereedin amd the right to can ahve a life outside and oyu ahve to let her have it.
she cant be home wiht you and have friends outside.and be wiht them at the same time.
up to now its been you you you now its tiem for her to think of herself and to have some friends and not depend on you to have a life and contacvts.
its very heakthy for oyur marriage in the long run if only you were genuatly trying to put yoruself in her dshoes, which you never did in all thsoe years, and was trying to see things with her glasses on.
When oyu wen to college she worled ot pay for your gollege cause osmoen had to be there and pay for the rent.
she didnt had youshould hten have work while she was going to college so thetre was a real sharing of the goods and a real equalitty between you, but instead you wanted to have kids and a family, that was very egoistic on your part and oyu shouldnt complain now cause what you go through is nothing compare with what she has to go through and the fact that she never will be able to go to college menaing all her life she wont be able ot get a better job and a better salary.
Thats not fair for her also that you are not even considerate of how much working time she invested into yoru relationship by taling off HER car and creditcards like she was a nobody and had never done a thing all her life.
If she was to take back all she gave you you will be naked in the steet.
She isnt goign with anyone and she is faithfull to y0u but oyu dont show any understandign to ehr.
Yous hould ahve think of ehr before and not wait tha tshe show it to you htat way.
her firedn is the alone person that iunderstand her and with whom shecan talk about her problems and she needs it a lot.
You have to see you huge responsability in what is happenign and how selfcentered you ahve been for years now and to foubnd a way to reverse that thing by giving her the goods she didnt get while you had it all.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> She says she's coming home on Sunday to talk. I'm concerned that she is going to say that she's done and wants out. If she says this, does it mean give up? or is it pathetic to keep trying?


I absolutely don't think you should give up and no, it's not pathetic to keep trying. It aint over til it's over (I'm a Cubs fan!)

Everything has unraveled very quickly for you but voivoid and MarkTwain have given you good advice. When you talk to her, be ready to hear the worst, and then calmly ask her to give your marriage a shot before giving up. That you understand there are many issues that need to be tackled and you are willing to go into this with an open mind and make permanent changes for the better...can you guess ahead of time what her issues will be? (ie you are too controlling, I feel unappreciated/unloved/unsupported) Whatever fits in your situation really think about those things and if you are willing to make permanent changes. She will need to know that you are serious if she's already past the point of wanting to try. Ask her for 6 months or a year + marriage counseling and tell her if she's willing to give you that, you can both re-evaluate things down the road. 

At this point, don't give up--take this as a major wake-up call that your marriage needs work!


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

I made an appointment today to speak with a counselor. I think that's the best thing I can do. Yes, I am immature and I have been spoiled. But I don't think that makes me a bad person. I love my wife and my kids, and with a few stumbles, I can honestly say I've been a good father. My children have never gone without. I guess I am worried that she won't consider us working together to save our marriage. I'm taking steps of my own. My house is cleaner than its been in years, my garden looks beautiful, I'm looking for a part time job to help me through this economic slump. I am trying my best to become a better man really. This has been a wake up call, but I'm kind of worried that maybe it came at eight but the big meeting was at seven. I'm trying to be positive for myself and for my son. I know I have to be strong for my kids no matter what. Of my three greatest achievements in my life, my marriage and my children have always been at the top of the list. They never changed for any reason at all. It has been a priority for me to make life easier for my family, easier than I had it growing up. I tried, but somewhere along the way I feel like I lost sight of my goals, became self-absorbed and oblivious. My good job became harder, my industry is directly affected by the housing market. And I think maybe I gave up just long enough, to really let things come apart. My nature is to try to rationalize it. But I think maybe that this just isn't a rational problem and probably can not be fixed with a rational solution. If I tell her that I'm not ready to talk yet, do you think that will hurt my chances of saving my marriage?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

What purpose will it serve to put off meeting with her? I think what you've done with the house and what you've said about your shortcomings in recent years are most likely on the list of things that have been bothering her. You don't have to have all of the answers right now, but if what you say and do are in line with righting the ship it won't hurt to talk about it now. 

My thought is that the sooner you engage in these talks with her the better. My reasoning for saying that is that she is probably venting to her girlfriend from work and friends/family tend to support you (that's what they do) a sympathetic listening ear...not necessarily telling her to fight for her marriage...you need to make sure someone (you) is planting that seed.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> Hi, this is the first time i've ever posted on a forum for this kind of help but i need to talk to someone. I have been married for nearly four years, we've lived together for six, and have been together for eight years. We are both 24 and have three children. Over the past two months, my wife has started working late, spending the night with her friends and leaving me at home with the kids. When I expressed concern about this she told me that she was stressed out about financial matters, never had time for friends since we had been together having children since we were 17 years old. She exploded on me saying that she sacrificed so much for our marriage, that I went to college and she didn't, that I had had time with friends(I was in a band for three years when we first moved in together.) and that she hadn't and that she needed this to relax and that she wasn't going to stop and i just needed to get over this. I tried to assure her that I didn't have a problem with her hanging out with friends i just wanted her to come home with me and the kids. This went on about once a week. I asked her if she was happy and she said yes.
> 
> I started getting depressed and my daily routine suffered. I spent a lot more time playing games on my computer to pass the time, I started smoking more, and I seriously neglected housework. My performance at work even started to decline. Even when she came home, our time together was brief and usually consisted of me sitting on one end of the couch on my laptop, and her on the other end watching tv. Sex didn't change very much, we still made love two times or so a week, so i didn't think anything was wrong.
> 
> ...


This sounds like exactly what I went through back in february of this year.

I need for you to understand me here. My wife was going to take our 2 year old out of state and move in with another man. Seriously... I almost lost my family. After I read alot about the subject , I learned I was doing all the wrong things. Now, my wife and I are going on a cruise in a few days and are EXTREMELY happy.

"I said "sorry? Sorry for what?" she said "I'm trying."" - I would have responded with, "I know you are and I really appreciate everything you are doing to make this work. Thank you." That is it.

"She came back three hours later and I said we needed to talk." - You should NOT DEMAND ANYTHING right now. Let her call the shots if you want her back emotionally. I would have ASKED her to talk and respect her wishes.

"I started getting depressed and my daily routine suffered." - STOP IT! Get rid of the depressed attitude. NEVER show her this either. You need to build yourself up quickly in order to save your marriage. only let her see you whistling around the house and happy as hell.

Listen, she is most likely seeing someone. Sorry to say it, but it is true.

The good news is, all is not lost yet.

I read in your post that you took things away from her. Why? To try and stop her from leaving you? To make matters more difficult for her? That is a huge mistake. 

You need to give her space and stop saying "I love you" and "I need you". In her eyes you are looking like the weak link in her life. She is thinking, "Why is he is saying he loves me when I treat him like crap? He is being weird."

Do you listen to her and help her out through this tough time she is having? Or do you demand answers from her and voice your feelings to her?

Stop it right now. You need to be positive with her in every way. You need to show her that she is not wrecking your life. She wants you to listen and feel her pain.

Now read this carefully, if she does have another man in her life, DO NOT attack her about it. You need to change your attitude about being the victim.

Want a hint to help save your marriage? Become the other man! Remember the way you were when you first met her? Listening to her every word, staring into her eyes, being 100% supportive for her. THIS IS WHAT THE OTHER MAN IS DOING!!! Ignore the other man if she has one. He is nothing to you. You need to stop voicing opinions and let her call all the shots for a while.

Try this one night... Get a babysitter or have her watch the kids. Go out with friends or by yourself. Tell her yo are meeting someone that night. Don't tell her where you are going. Let her be the jealous one for once. Show her that you are not waiting around for her anymore. Live your life like you were a bachelor again and get your power back. This will save your marriage. 

If she is seeing someone else, you need to be like that guy again. This excites her. Show her you are unpredictable. Oh yeah, and another thing. When she is home with you, STOP WITH THE VIDEO GAMES!!! I did this also and "World of Warcrack" nearly killed my marriage!!!

If you can get her back a bit emotionally, ask her on a date. Yes. A date. Or do a candlelight dinner with no strings attached. Soft music, stare into her eyes as you listen to her speak her mind. DO NOT TRY AND FIX HER!!! Just listen to her. ONLY if you feel she is ready. Do something different for her.

Best of luck.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

husband,
i truly am interested in the content of your post. if i may ask, was there infidelity in your marriage?

there is/was none in mine. my wife has been emotionally drained and is empty right now. she has kept a somewhat comfortable "dating" relationship with me during our separation. if you could, look back at my original posts and answer me this:

do you think the zaxxes program fits?

if so, how?

thank you so much.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

voivod said:


> husband,
> i truly am interested in the content of your post. if i may ask, was there infidelity in your marriage?
> 
> there is/was none in mine. my wife has been emotionally drained and is empty right now. she has kept a somewhat comfortable "dating" relationship with me during our separation. if you could, look back at my original posts and answer me this:
> ...


The zaxxes guide helped keep me in check. There were many things I was doing/not doing that killed my marriage. The zaxxes guide was just one of the things that helped me out bigtime. I owe alot to that site.

Yes. There was a another guy that was promising my wife the world. Expensive house, car, lots of money, never have to work another day in her life again, etc. How do I know this? She told me. It took one day on a park trip with our daughter to show her I lwas not a complete loss her in her eyes. Then she spilled her guts. That day I sensed something was wrong and just shut up and listened to her.

I ended up in a comfort zone that nearly killed my marriage. I played World of Warcraft, drank alot, smoked, pretty much ignored her when she was around and never listened to her. Wehn she wanted to do something, I was never interested in the things she wanted to do. I only voiced my opinion and my opinion was always right. I was an idiot.

Meanwhile, the other guy is getting married this month to another girl and my wife and I are happily married and going on a cruise in a few days.

It took abut 1 month to straighten everything out. Trust is something that needs to be worked on everyday, but my wife and family are worth it. Hope this helps.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

sorry, the questions i asked were answered in your previous post. my bad.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Thank you husband, your post is very helpful and it gives me some ideas. She called me this evening and said that she is going to meet me on Sunday so that she can spend time with our son. I asked if we were all going to spend the day together, she said "no I'm coming to see michael." I said okay. She had called earlier in the day and was told that I was out. She asked me where I was. I told her I was out. She said out where? I laughed a little and asked her why it was so important. and finally told her that I was speaking to a family counselor. She laughed and said that she wasn't going to see a psychotherapist. I told her that I'm not crazy and the person was not a psychotherapist, it was just someone I'm talking to about the kids, and trying to figure some things out for myself. I'm not so sure if it was an intellegent choice to tell her. At first I thought that It would make me look like I'm taking charge of my life, but I think it might make me look like I'm weak. Also, I have a second session booked for next week and i'd like to try to encourage her to come with me. As for Sunday, I believe that I am going to let her spend time with her son at our house while I go out and actually do something. maybe I'll go to the movies or something. when the call ended, I told her to have a good evening. She said the same and we hung up. I've never been through this before so I'm learning here. I've come to the conclusion that, in the greater scheme of things, It doesn't matter if she is having an affair as long as she's being safe. I can get past it. I have made a commitment to listen to her on Sunday if she wants to talk, offer her to come to counseling with me. And if she says she wants to be done with me, I'll offer a compromise, like separation or living together in the same house in separate bedrooms. I've deleted the games from my computer and I actually feel pretty good about it. I was playing games because I was unhappy and couldn't cope. I have a little renewed hope, and at the very least, I'll be a better person.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> Thank you husband, your post is very helpful and it gives me some ideas. She called me this evening and said that she is going to meet me on Sunday so that she can spend time with our son. I asked if we were all going to spend the day together, she said "no I'm coming to see michael." I said okay. She had called earlier in the day and was told that I was out. She asked me where I was. I told her I was out. She said out where? I laughed a little and asked her why it was so important. and finally told her that I was speaking to a family counselor. She laughed and said that she wasn't going to see a psychotherapist. I told her that I'm not crazy and the person was not a psychotherapist, it was just someone I'm talking to about the kids, and trying to figure some things out for myself. I'm not so sure if it was an intellegent choice to tell her. At first I thought that It would make me look like I'm taking charge of my life, but I think it might make me look like I'm weak. Also, I have a second session booked for next week and i'd like to try to encourage her to come with me. As for Sunday, I believe that I am going to let her spend time with her son at our house while I go out and actually do something. maybe I'll go to the movies or something. when the call ended, I told her to have a good evening. She said the same and we hung up. I've never been through this before so I'm learning here. I've come to the conclusion that, in the greater scheme of things, It doesn't matter if she is having an affair as long as she's being safe. I can get past it. I have made a commitment to listen to her on Sunday if she wants to talk, offer her to come to counseling with me. And if she says she wants to be done with me, I'll offer a compromise, like separation or living together in the same house in separate bedrooms. I've deleted the games from my computer and I actually feel pretty good about it. I was playing games because I was unhappy and couldn't cope. I have a little renewed hope, and at the very least, I'll be a better person.


It sounds like your getting there. 

Don't offer any compromises. Let her make the decisions for now when it comes to your relationship. Show her she is boss for now. Just listen to her and acknowledge her ideas. You may want to buy the ebook on zaxxes.com. it helped me understand alot.

See? She got jealous when you said you went out. She is trying to have her cake and eat it to. Now it's time to let her know that you are going to have cake to. By going out and having fun, you will show her that:

1: She is not hurting you by doing the things she is doing.

2: That you are outgoing again and living life. This looks very attractive to her. Keep it up.

3: She is jealous of you. She does not realize it now. By having her guess about your second life, it tells her that she still has feelings about you. Use this to your advantage.

This is a very crucial time for you. Don't blow it. Sounds like not all is lost yet. She may test you along the way by trying to piss you off. Don't fall for this trap! Be positive and happy around her. She will love this, but may not show it.

Another thing, you should not reassure her too much. Leave her guessing right now. "Where did he go? Hmmm..." Don't feed her security right now. She needs to miss you and be jealous of you. It shows her that she still cares about you.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Is it okay to ask her to go to counseling with me or should I hold off for now and give her some space? I'm thinking that when she comes tomorrow just to tell her to enjoy her day with her son and tell her I'm going out for a little bit. If she wants to talk I'll talk to her, but I'm going to try to stave off any big decisions for now. I'll do my best to let her call the shots, but I don't think that I can agree out and out to divorce just yet if she brings it up. She wants space right now, but unfortunately, I have to pick her up so she can spend time with our son. I forgot to let him call her last night, so maybe thats a good thing.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mikeandberg-

In as much as one of your faults (having read your first post) was that you were a bit controlling of her in the past, your playing it cool with her is absolutly the way to go - I take my hat off to you. 

This also puts less pressure on you. My old boss taught me a very valuable lesson many years ago: Never react in hot blood. Listen, take everything in, and take time to consider where you want to steer the situation. I used to think I was clever being a hot-head. I used to write heated little emails and faxes to our most difficult customers. But the bas**rd used to stand over me and make me edit them until they sounded like a love letter. When we caught one of them trying to steal company secrets, he only allowed me to start the email with "Mr. xxx I don't know what you were thinking". It all paid off - they bought more stuff of us, and no harm was done.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

I am doing my best to prepare for tomorrow. I have decided on playing it cool, but not too cold. I am going to avoid using phrases like "I care about you" "I love you" and "are you doing okay?" I'm going to let her see what I've accomplished in the time that she has been away with our home and everything. I am going to remain positive and happy and not let her see that I am hurting. I think maybe I've been looking at this all wrong. I can use this opportunity to find things out about myself too. I can learn to treat everyday as an opportunity to make myself happy as well, and to get her thinking, "This guy is really better than what I thought." I don't know if I'm working against indifference, but even if I am I know that its not the end of everything. I can still have hope. I plan on telling my son to enjoy the day with his mother, drop them off at our house and take the day to enjoy myself. I'll tell her that I'm going out and maybe it will get her wondering about things. I'll come home hours later, ask my son how his day was with his mommy and if she wants to talk I'll listen. I'm not going to ask her anything and do my best to give her space and let her make decisions. I'm through making assumptions. I'm not going to agree with divorce. I'll suggest that we spend some more time separated and ask her to come to counseling with me. I'll tell her its changed my perspective on the whole thing and that's the truth.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> I am doing my best to prepare for tomorrow. I have decided on playing it cool, but not too cold. I am going to avoid using phrases like "I care about you" "I love you" and "are you doing okay?" I'm going to let her see what I've accomplished in the time that she has been away with our home and everything. I am going to remain positive and happy and not let her see that I am hurting. I think maybe I've been looking at this all wrong. I can use this opportunity to find things out about myself too. I can learn to treat everyday as an opportunity to make myself happy as well, and to get her thinking, "This guy is really better than what I thought." I don't know if I'm working against indifference, but even if I am I know that its not the end of everything. I can still have hope. I plan on telling my son to enjoy the day with his mother, drop them off at our house and take the day to enjoy myself. I'll tell her that I'm going out and maybe it will get her wondering about things. I'll come home hours later, ask my son how his day was with his mommy and if she wants to talk I'll listen. I'm not going to ask her anything and do my best to give her space and let her make decisions. I'm through making assumptions. I'm not going to agree with divorce. I'll suggest that we spend some more time separated and ask her to come to counseling with me. I'll tell her its changed my perspective on the whole thing and that's the truth.


Make sure you smile and be incredibly polite to her. It pays off bigtime.

Remember, no pressure! Let her direct you for now. You need to diffuse the bomb that you have both created over time.

Don't worry about who is right or wrong anymore. Just make it so she is right, and you are wrong. Once she sees that you feel that way, she will say she has noticed that you have changed. When she says this, I would respond back with , "Thank you. I am glad you noticed. I still have alot of work to do though."

The goal here is to get back on even ground by ditching your feelings for a bit. Small price to pay for the one you love.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

husbandinthemking said:


> Just make it so she is right, and you are wrong. Once she sees that you feel that way, she will say she has noticed that you have changed. When she says this, I would respond back with , "Thank you. I am glad you noticed. I still have alot of work to do though."


That's OK for short periods as long as it's not a recipe for being a door matt.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

I just found out that she needs me to pick her up so that she can spend the day with our son. I'm trying to keep my distance but now we have to share a 30 minute car ride together with my son. I kind of feel like there is a kink in my plans now or can I use this to my advantage? Also, should I wear my wedding ring? I'm worried that if I am wearing it, she'll see it as a weakness, but I'm also worried that if I'm not wearing it, she'll be offended. She was still wearing hers a few days ago when I saw her at her work. I'm going to try to keep positive, but she just texted me saying we need to make plans and to please have our son call her at work. I'm not sure what to do.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

If you were wearing the ring when she last saw you, then continue to wear it, and if not, then don't put it back on. Apart form that just relax. You play it cool be feeling cool on the inside.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

okay, and if she wants to talk, Is it okay to do that in front of our son? I don't want to be weird around her or anything. I feel kind of like i'm trying to make a new first impression. I've spent the day going over every possible conversation I can think of in my head. I'm nervous, but I'm excited to see her. I know I can't let her see this but I'm worried this will show through. She did tell me she has no intention of spending time with me tomorrow but that we could talk for a bit. Everytime I see her or hear her I feel like an excited puppy heart racing and tail wagging and all.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> okay, and if she wants to talk, Is it okay to do that in front of our son? I don't want to be weird around her or anything. I feel kind of like i'm trying to make a new first impression. I've spent the day going over every possible conversation I can think of in my head. I'm nervous, but I'm excited to see her. I know I can't let her see this but I'm worried this will show through. She did tell me she has no intention of spending time with me tomorrow but that we could talk for a bit. Everytime I see her or hear her I feel like an excited puppy heart racing and tail wagging and all.


No. I would not have that conversation in front of your son. I would say, "I would love to discuss this with you, but I do not feel like now is the time with our son in the car. When do you think would be a good time to talk besides right now?" Trust me. You and your wife need to always be the inner circle. Your kids take the next outter ring of the circle. Parents after that, etc. Keep this ONLY between you and your wife.

Also, you need to check the excited puppy attitude at the door. Be positive and listen to her. Stare into her eyes when you listen to her. Never look away from her eyes until she looks away. This will show her the respect she is craving. Agree with what she says. (Yeah. This should only happen during the healing process. After that, just be mindful of her feelings. You will not have to agree with everything she says for your whole life unless you want to. Hehe.)


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Okay we talked on the phone to make arrangements for tomorrow about meeting up and such. She told me that she was going to spend the day with our son, and get him to bed in the evening. I told her that was fine and that I had made plans. She said what kind of plans. I told her I was meeting people. She said what people. I told her that I had made some new friends this week. She said good for you, you need to get out. I asked that since she doesn't have to work until very late in the afternoon on monday, if she would spend the night with our son and I could just stay at my parents. She said she didn't want to do that. She told me that she was looking for an apartment in the town where she works and that she has made up her mind. She said we'll discuss it tomorrow. I don't know how to take this or what it means. I didn't let it visibly bother me I told her that's fine you need your space and i understand. She told me that we'll make arrangements tomorrow. I need some advice here.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> Okay we talked on the phone to make arrangements for tomorrow about meeting up and such. She told me that she was going to spend the day with our son, and get him to bed in the evening. I told her that was fine and that I had made plans. She said what kind of plans. I told her I was meeting people. She said what people. I told her that I had made some new friends this week. She said good for you, you need to get out. I asked that since she doesn't have to work until very late in the afternoon on monday, if she would spend the night with our son and I could just stay at my parents. She said she didn't want to do that. She told me that she was looking for an apartment in the town where she works and that she has made up her mind. She said we'll discuss it tomorrow. I don't know how to take this or what it means. I didn't let it visibly bother me I told her that's fine you need your space and i understand. She told me that we'll make arrangements tomorrow. I need some advice here.


Nice. The switch is coming soon I think. Just be patient.

By telling you telling her something like, "I am sure you will be happy in whatever you decide." or "I am proud of you making that decision.", you are giving her emotional renforcement that that she is looking for from you. She just needs to see this on a regular basis. Please don't think this will happen over night. She needs for you to fill her emotional cup that has been empty for a long time. Be patient and do not rush this process.

Another thing is, when she calls you, it is ok to laugh and smile when talking to her. This gives her a positive vibe that she will want to be a part of. Think only good thoughts. And keep up the dating thing. The more she sees you as happy and positive, the more she will think she may lose you to someone else. Do not assure her of anything now.

Example conversation:

"Hello?" - You(say it positively)

"Hi" - Her

"Hey there! How are you doing today?" - You

"Fine. Why are you in such a good mood?" - Her

"I don't know. I just feel great today!" - You

"Oh... Anyway, blah, blah, blah." - Her

Listen and agree with her as though nothing she says could effect your mood. REMAIN POSITIVE ABOUT EVERYTHING! She tells you the sky is falling, be like, "Wow! Cool! That is amazing!" Get it? The cup is now half full with you, NOT half empty! The rule is, a woman NEVER leaves a man they perceive to be happy.

She will probably test you emotionally. BE PREPARED! Do not let her get you in a negative mood. No matter what she says.

And remember, all is fair in love and war.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

We've seen each other twice since sunday over our son. last night she came over to have dinner with him and we hung out for a little bit. I remained positive the whole time, told her a little about new friends that I had made. She got very interested in the new friends. I laughed. She laughed. She asked if she could borrow a little money. I laughed and told her "that's not an estranged wife privelege." She smiled and I gave her a little cash. I told her that I've been finding out a lot of new things about myself, and I'm really enjoying it. She still wants to find her own apartment, and that she has to know that she can do this on her own. I told her I would be happy to help her in anyway. She said that she wants to have a positive relationship with me (friends), I told her I would very much enjoy that. We talked about the "D word" and she said that she wasn't ready to make that decision yet. I thought that that was a good sign, but I'm not quite sure. I offered her to come to counseling with me, she said no. I told her that was fine with me and I respect her position. I asked her if she would like to take our son trick-or-treating with me on halloween and she said she did. I also asked her if she would like to go to dinner on friday night since things seemed to be going smoothly. She said yes! I know I can't treat it as a date, but what do you do on a first date with your estranged wife?


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Also, am I going too fast here? and I thought that this was important too. I talked to one of our mutual friends on the phone who had had a conversation with her on Sunday. She said that my wife feels like she made a mistake, but can't admit it over pride, and that she still loves me very much, its just that we were so unhappy together. I know its hearsay, but it presents a new angle for me, should I bring this up in counseling?


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

okay, at dinner I plan on giving her a white rose and a letter

Berglind,

I gave you a white rose this evening because it symbolizes purity, respect and new beginnings, and as a token of my appreciation for agreeing to come to dinner, which I know will be wonderful. I wanted to let you know that I truly respect your decisions and I am there for you in anyway that I can be. I have something really exciting going on in my life right now, but I'm not so sure now is the right time to tell you about it, right now I just want to focus on our friendship. In the short time we've been apart, I've got to learn a lot of new things about myself, but I also got the chance to take a step back and remember all the good times we've spent together. I know that I made some stupid mistakes over the course of our marriage, and I'm glad they didn't completely ruin our relationship. Anyways, I hope you enjoy dinner tonight, and let me know if you want to go again, or anything else. I would really love to get to know you again. Drop me a text after reading,

Michael

does that sound good or is it dumb? I don't want to send the message that I'm needy and pushy and I also don't want it to sound like being friends is the last stop either. The dinner is an early Friday dinner.


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

mikeandberg said:


> okay, at dinner I plan on giving her a white rose and a letter
> 
> Berglind,
> 
> ...


Yeah... Friendship is a word she does not need to hear from you. Do not put yourself in that category with her. She is saying friendship to you, but she is feeling more than that. She is testing you right now. She wants to see if you will let her be what she wants to be 100%. Follow her lead with this, but do not accept the friendship spot. Agree, but have your own agenda. Don't promote friendship with her.

The more I read your letter, the more I think it is too much right now. Too soon. Pretend like you just met her. The flower is ok to give her. A simple, "For a beautiful lady." No lengthy speech though. That would make her feel obligated and guilty. She needs to know that you will not hold what she is doing against her.

Listen... Things are going great for you right now. I can not state this enough. Now is a crucial time for you both. Follow these basic rules when you date her:

1) Look into her eyes the whole time she is talking to you. Listen to her with acknowledgement like, "Uh-huh" or "Sure. I hear what you are saying." or "Right.", etc. Positive reenforcement the whole time. Another thing to try is this, stare into her eyes... If she asks you what you are looking at, just respond, "I never noticed how beautiful your eyes looked in this type of light before." She will melt like butter over this.

2) Do not offer her advice. Turn it around on her. If she asks, "What would you do if you were me?" DO NOT answer her. I would reply, "Hmmm. That is a really good question. I would have to think about that one for a bit. What do you think you would do?" This shows you care about her feelings in the subject.

3) Compliment her. Tell her she looks great that night.

4) Where is the first restaurant you took her to? Can you go there again? If so, make a toast that night to "New beginings with you" or you use the eyes thing: "To your beautiful eyes: They are windows to a beautiful soul."

Be romantic with her. If she says, "I am not ready for this now.", reply, "Of course not. I am I being to ambitious?" She will probably say, "No. I guess not." She just wanted her feelings to be recognized. Get it?


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

so, not so sure it went well. She seemed very uncomfortable. I gave her the rose and she said thank you. I looked into her eyes, told her she looked nice. she said thank you to this as well. I tried to be romantic. I wrote 'smile' in the condensation on her glass. she did. I told her she's always had a pretty smile. I smiled the whole time and she did to. I made some jokes that she smiled at. we talked a little about what she's doing as far as looking for her own apartment. we talked about our kids a little bit. I reminisced a bit about our earlier years, how the restaurant was the same place we had our first date. I talked about the way we used to kiss at every red light. about how we couldn't get enough of each other. I told her that this night was about her. I touched her hand and she pulled it away. She wasn't wearing her wedding ring. I told her a little bit about how I had had a lot of time to think about myself and to make changes in my life, But that I also thought about her and the good times we used to have. She said that she had made her mind up. I asked "Oh, about what?" she said everything, this relationship, she wants to be done with it. She wants to be friends. She said I'm not coming home. I said I respect that and I smiled. I told her, "know that I'm here for you". I paid for dinner and we went outside to smoke a cigarette. we sat in her car and talked a little more. I asked her if she could forgive me for the whole car thing. She said that she was over it but it was very dry. I asked if she enjoyed dinner, she said yes and thank you. I asked her if she would like to go again sometime, she said maybe. I told her that I want to work things out. With us so that we could be okay. She said that she wants to be friends, but as far as anything else goes, its not time for that. that we've grown apart. "our song" played on the radio and I sang it aloud, I could have swore that a tear came to her eye for just an instant. she wiped her eyes. When the song ended I gave her a hug and told her "I'm here for you." She told me goodnight. as she drove off she waved. Did I do something wrong here?


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

what statesman was it who said "never, never never give up?" winston churchill?

anyway, how i see it, when she said "as far as anything else goes, its not time for that," well, i grabbed a big ol chunk of hope outta that statement. maybe the next thing would've been you saying "are you saying there MAY be a time for that, because our time together is to precious for me to give up on." but i'm no expert, that's a proven fact!

it ain't over til it's over. and she's safe in making these statements of finality, but it ain't over. consult with other on this board and i think you'll find pro-marriage opinions.


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## mikeandberg (Oct 3, 2008)

Well, she went and looked at a new apartment the yesterday. Its a two bedroom. She also said that she's still thinking about a roommate. This woman is 44 years old, She hangs out with my wife everywhere, there is something very odd about her. She comes over when my wife hangs out with my son, and they are going off for a weekend with each other. My wife's best friend, thinks that she might be a lesbian, and that my wife is having an affair with her. I don't know what I think, I'm so confused. My wife is coming over tonight to see Michael for a little bit.


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