# Considering Divorce 14 yrs & 3 kids



## FD71 (Jun 2, 2015)

I am considering/planning to file for divorce or separation. Quick details. Married 14 years, 3 kids, 11, 9 and 1. We never should have gotten married. I remember having doubts on our wedding day and even before. The first couple of years things were fine. I am not sure I was happy, but I don’t recall being real depressed or upset either. One thing I do remember is that when my oldest daughter was born not feeling as excited as I should. I don’t blame my wife for the situation; I should have been more honest with how I feel back then.

4 or 5 years ago I remember trying to be more supportive and improve our marriage, but it seems that whenever I would try and be extra nice she would do something to really piss me off. Vacations are another issue. I don’t look forward to them at all. Both the pre-vacation yelling while we are packing and the yelling about stupid stuff while we are on vacation. When our oldest was 5, my parents took us to Hawaii. It was during the school year and so the teacher asked her to put a journal together for the trip. I remember my wife fighting with my daughter to make her do this journal. I don’t remember the fun on the vacation; I remember the yelling and fighting about the journal. She was five. I grew up in a house with almost no yelling. My kids get yelled at 10 times more in a year than I ever got yelled at during my entire childhood. Sometimes it feels like I am living in a bad sitcom about miserable people. 

Two years ago, I figured I would just wait until the kids were older. Unfortunately she got pregnant the one time we had sex in about 6 months. Now instead of having just a couple of more years to the kids graduate, it is 17. I can’t do it. I feel dishonest and just dread being 60 and having been miserable for most of my life. 

I don’t really want to do counseling, because I don’t really want to stay married. I want to be with someone who I can relax and have fun with. However, at the same time I cannot imagine getting married again. With her I am always on my guard. She snaps when ever she is stressed even about little things and also get defensive whenever her issues get pointed out. 

Frankly it is just too hard and how I feel isn’t going to change. It would be one thing if I had these great feelings to make everything worthwhile, but I don’t. Life really is just a grind without hope for improvement.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

FD71 said:


> I am considering/planning to file for divorce or separation. Quick details. Married 14 years, 3 kids, 11, 9 and 1. We never should have gotten married. I remember having doubts on our wedding day and even before. The first couple of years things were fine. I am not sure I was happy, but I don’t recall being real depressed or upset either. One thing I do remember is that when my oldest daughter was born not feeling as excited as I should. I don’t blame my wife for the situation; I should have been more honest with how I feel back then.
> 
> 4 or 5 years ago I remember trying to be more supportive and improve our marriage, but it seems that whenever I would try and be extra nice she would do something to really piss me off. Vacations are another issue. I don’t look forward to them at all. Both the pre-vacation yelling while we are packing and the yelling about stupid stuff while we are on vacation. When our oldest was 5, my parents took us to Hawaii. It was during the school year and so the teacher asked her to put a journal together for the trip. I remember my wife fighting with my daughter to make her do this journal. I don’t remember the fun on the vacation; I remember the yelling and fighting about the journal. She was five. I grew up in a house with almost no yelling. My kids get yelled at 10 times more in a year than I ever got yelled at during my entire childhood. Sometimes it feels like I am living in a bad sitcom about miserable people.
> 
> ...


Counseling can help you and wife become these people to each other.

You're being selfish by not even trying counseling. Of course you want to relax.....you have a one year old! Your wife probably does, too. 

The grass is NOT greener. Sure, if you only have your kids 50% of the time, you have a lot of free time to be a bachelor again. But, if you end up with someone who also has kids, you're tacking on a whole new set of stressors, and possibly not as much free time to have your fun.

Again, the grass is not greener. Work on your marriage.


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## Shiksagoddess (Jan 20, 2011)

FD, it sounds like you checked out of your marriage a long time ago, if indeed you ever checked in. Therefore, counseling to save your marriage may be much too late.

I will strongly advise that you seek counseling for yourself. Your last sentence is very telling; "Life really is just a grind without hope for improvement." Is it possible you've been depressed for a long time and not realize it? Even a little? This may color your view of marriage and life in general.

At the very least, I think you owe it to your children to seek counseling with your wife to work on the process of splitting amicably. Divorcing may be painful, but it doesn't have to be a scorched-earth-take-no-prisoners type of divorce.

You don't need permission to be happy; just make certain that divorcing will make you happy.


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## WhatAboutBon (Jun 2, 2015)

I am in the same situation FD71 so I feel your pain. 

We all need to be happy and comfortable with our situation in life. I agree with the person that said it may be too late for counseling although I would never suggest NOT to try counseling to anyone. 

I don't 100% agree with the phrase "The grass is not greener". It may not be or it may be. If you are miserable in your marriage, are sure that it is never going to work, than you do what you need to do.

Good luck and keep us updated.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

WhatAboutBon said:


> I am in the same situation FD71 so I feel your pain.
> 
> We all need to be happy and comfortable with our situation in life. I agree with the person that said it may be too late for counseling although I would never suggest NOT to try counseling to anyone.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I have GONE through this already.. Life is to short, to live like this even know there are kids involved. If they see you two fight, they will think that its ok when they are older to treat there SO like that. I could not let my XW (That feels good to say) treat me like a POS any longer.. Even my daughter started in on me a little as she seen her mom do it, she thought it was ok. She has since apologized to me knowing what she had done.. I never made waves as I was always told not to, You know .. Happy wife, Happy life .. F that.. I understand what you are saying about not 100% sure if it was right, the same with me. But I also thought that this could be my only/last chance to marry and I think she felt the same way. when I meet her, she had not been on a date in 7 yrs, that's a red flag, but did not know it then. I went to see a IC, and even during the 19 months of separation( she could not figure out what she wanted to do) I attended IC.. I did not think MC would help but the IC did... Side note, I have a really close relationship with my daughter, she is making plans to come and live with me...


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

WhatAboutBon said:


> I am in the same situation FD71 so I feel your pain.
> 
> We all need to be happy and comfortable with our situation in life. I agree with the person that said it may be too late for counseling although I would never suggest NOT to try counseling to anyone.
> 
> ...


You are correct.

However, OP's story just screams "another woman" to me. It's practically textbook. Especially this: _ I want to be with someone who I can relax and have fun with. However, at the same time I cannot imagine getting married again. With her I am always on my guard. She snaps when ever she is stressed even about little things and also get defensive whenever her issues get pointed out. _

It sounds like he's already comparing his short-tempered/moody wife with someone more fun and relaxing.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

I don't see "Another woman" in what he wrote. There was not one in mine, I just could not be married to that person any longer with out going to jail for it. 
I have noticed on TAM that a lot of people call out EA or PA.. Yes I know it happens A LOT, but not every thread is.. and sorry(NOT) to say, For me the grass is greener!


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## WhatAboutBon (Jun 2, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> You are correct.
> 
> However, OP's story just screams "another woman" to me. It's practically textbook. Especially this: _ I want to be with someone who I can relax and have fun with. However, at the same time I cannot imagine getting married again. With her I am always on my guard. She snaps when ever she is stressed even about little things and also get defensive whenever her issues get pointed out. _
> 
> It sounds like he's already comparing his short-tempered/moody wife with someone more fun and relaxing.


He may or may not have another woman. I don't know because it was not explicitly said. My preference is to not assume things. I can only comment on what a person actually says. If there is another woman then my answer might be different.

And what is wrong with wanting to be with someone who is "more fun and relaxing" instead of being miserable?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

WhatAboutBon said:


> He may or may not have another woman. I don't know because it was not explicitly said. My preference is to not assume things. I can only comment on what a person actually says. If there is another woman then my answer might be different.
> 
> *And what is wrong with wanting to be with someone who is "more fun and relaxing" instead of being miserable?*


Nothing!  As long as it's not the secretary at work, 10 years his junior with no kids and that much less responsibility to be fun and relaxed.....

Not many married men of 3 are willing to complicated their lives, assume child support payments, disrupt their kids lives.....just to relax and have more fun without someone to do that with already lined up. Just saying.

And, not even being interested in at least trying marriage counseling? Not cool in my book.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I don't see "Another woman" in what he wrote. There was not one in mine, I just could not be married to that person any longer with out going to jail for it.
> I have noticed on TAM that a lot of people call out EA or PA.. Yes I know it happens A LOT, but not every thread is.. and sorry(NOT) to say, For me the grass is greener!


I agree.

I was in a very similar situation as the OP with my 1st marriage...only my children were older because I was married longer.

Sometimes its not about having an affair, its just enough that you're dreaming about the potential of being with someone that's not angry and annoying all the time. You dream of the peace, quiet and affection that might be possible with another person. And if you don't get that, you dream of just being alone and having peace and quiet.

For me, after separation, the grass wasn't just greener. There were flowers, ice cream and beautiful music playing. The divorce process was terrible but being away from my ex was worth all of it and then some...being away from him is literally pure bliss. Add into that shortly after separation I fell in love with the man of my dreams and its impossible for me to agree that you should force yourself to stay in an unhappy marriage with an angry, critical nagging person.

The children definitely complicate things but I can tell you that my children are MUCH happier with us divorced and not having to deal with two people who clearly didn't like or respect each other. Growing up in an angry household just sucks for kids.

As for counselling, I believe there's an optimal point to get into it so that it has a chance of working...and it sounds like the OP may be past that point. When you go to counselling, you have to go there with the premise that you WANT the marriage to be saved. By the time I was ready to divorce, the last thing I wanted was to put in any work to attempt to stay with the person that I had zero emotional attachment to. 

I have a feeling this OP got divorced a longggg time ago...he just needs to catch up with the paperwork.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Not many married men of 3 are willing to complicated their lives, assume child support payments, disrupt their kids lives.....just to relax and have more fun without someone to do that with already lined up. Just saying.


Maybe you've never lived with an angry, bitter, critical nag.

I got to the point where I'd tense up and my stomach would ache every time the door opened. I literally HATED the sound of his voice. I used to fantasize every single day about having my own quiet, private, clean space without someone criticizing every move I made.

I also knew the whole time that my children were in a bad environment...staying in an angry home for the kids is a bad idea.

I paid a small fortune to get divorced and I consider it one of the best investments of my life. It was worth every penny and more.

I tried for years and years to make things better. It takes two people to work on a marriage to make it work. One person just cannot do it alone and if she's been unwilling until now, this OP might not want to bother trying any more which is well within his right to decide.

There are a lot of people that realize that they only get ONE life and spending the rest of it in that type of environment is simply too depressing to consider. I can greatly sympathize with where this OP is...anyone who hasn't been in the situation can't imagine the lengths you'll go to have a chance at a better life.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Maybe you've never lived with an angry, bitter, critical nag.
> 
> I got to the point where I'd tense up and my stomach would ache every time the door opened. I literally HATED the sound of his voice. I used to fantasize every single day about having my own quiet, private, clean space without someone criticizing every move I made.
> 
> ...


:iagree: This is it.. 
On a side note, my daughter seems very happy now, more then when we all lived together, and she always wants to go hang out at Dads house... Even her school grades are better after the separation and divorce..


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Maybe you've never lived with an angry, bitter, critical nag.


Um, yes. I live with an awful human being right now. I wouldn't say he's a nag, but angry, bitter, abusive, mean, unfaithful..... I'm moving out in 3 weeks.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sammy64 said:


> :iagree: This is it..
> On a side note, my daughter seems very happy now, more then when we all lived together, and she always wants to go hang out at Dads house... Even her school grades are better after the separation and divorce..


Trust me, I know all about kids, happiness, not wanting parents to fight, etc. I divorced my ex in 2010 and we lived apart, doing the whole split custody/child support thing until we reconciled last year. Now we're splitting again. Both times we split were due to him being unfaithful. The first time he was remorseful but I was unforgiving. This time, not at all remorseful and his behavior is despicable.

I do know my kids will be happier once things are settled. Not a blanket statement for all kids of divorce though.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Perfect then, that was my point. You have a H that has been unfaithful to YOU and YOUR family, but this guy has not, and has tried to fix his marrige, to go out right out and call it a EA or even a PA is not right. 

"However, OP's story just screams "another woman" to me. It's practically textbook. Especially this: I want to be with someone who I can relax and have fun with. However, at the same time I cannot imagine getting married again. With her I am always on my guard. She snaps when ever she is stressed even about little things and also get defensive whenever her issues get pointed out.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sammy64 said:


> Perfect then, that was my point. You have a H that has been unfaithful to YOU and YOUR family, but this guy has not, and has tried to fix his marrige, to go out right out and call it a EA or even a PA is not right.


What it sounds like to me is not "right or wrong." This is an opinion forum. I know the red flags, and in my _opinion_, there are a lot of them in his post, starting with "we never should have gotten married," right down to his last sentence.

It's also a matter of opinion that he has "tried to fix his marriage." He said 4 or 5 years in he tried to be more supportive. OK, I'll give him that. But he's outright refusing to even try to go to counseling now, after bringing a 3rd child into the mix. Nowhere in his post does he share how he and his life partner have gone about working on their marriage together. Or that he's even shared his feelings about the marriage with her. 

I know we'll never get the truth since this is an anonymous forum, but I'd still be surprised if there isn't another woman in this equation, whether an actual EA, PA, or just someone he wants to pursue.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sammy64 said:


> Perfect then, that was my point. You have a H that has been unfaithful to YOU and YOUR family, *but this guy has not*, and has tried to fix his marrige, to go out right out and call it a EA or even a PA is not right.
> 
> .


Actually, he hasn't said that. He hasn't come back to his post at all.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Um, yes. I live with an awful human being right now. I wouldn't say he's a nag, but angry, bitter, abusive, mean, unfaithful..... I'm moving out in 3 weeks.


Well then, you should know that its extremely insulting and presumptuous to suggest that just because he wants out of a horrific marriage, that he's a cheater.

I find it disturbing that you seemed to be suggesting it additionally because he happens to be male.

I know many, many men who leave marriages, pay legal fees, alimony, and child support with zero intention to even try at another relationship. They just want out of very terrible marriages...not just for them but because they know the atmosphere is poisonous for their children. They're tired of waging war every day with an angry spouse and want a more peaceful existence.



> What it sounds like to me is not "right or wrong." This is an opinion forum. I know the red flags, and in my opinion, there are a lot of them in his post, starting with "we never should have gotten married," right down to his last sentence.


I said this all the time during my divorce and still say it about my ex. I was very young when I married and didn't understand compatibility. Its not unusual to go into a marriage having second thoughts.

I take this poster at his word and he didn't say he was cheating on his spouse. I see no ulterior motives in someone wanting out of a bad marriage with a nagging spouse. I sympathize with the OP, I hope he's able to escape and find a more serene life...its hellish living with someone like that.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think that your analysis makes a lot of sense. Counseling is real,never needed not ever works. I'm speaking from experience on that. I'm 25 years in and wish I never goit in this marriage. It's never fun and a constant grind and you said. I think that you, if you can afford it, it's time to move on. In this case the grass IS greener on the other side...how could it get more yellow??


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I absolutely do not suggest he's cheating because he's male. One of my BFFs cheated on her husband, destroyed her family, and has to pay HIM child support because she makes more. I know it's not just men. 

I also don't see how my opinion is insulting. So, yes, I'm getting out of a marriage with someone who is very, very unkind. And he's also a cheater, and once his cheating was discovered, his behavior became worse. Still, he's the one who refused to work through it and had no interested in continuing on in our reconciliation. Cheating IS a factor in my relationship failure, and it is in nearly all, if not all, of the divorces in my circle of friends. I can't think of anyone I know who has left a marriage simple because their spouse is a nag and yells at the kids, especially without getting counseling first.

If you left your marriage because you were simply unhappy, ok, that's your experience. I'm not implying YOU cheated just because it sounds to me like OP might have/might want to. He said a lot of things that I consider red flags because I've heard them from cheaters as a way to shift blame and justify their actions.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I absolutely do not suggest he's cheating because he's male. One of my BFFs cheated on her husband, destroyed her family, and has to pay HIM child support because she makes more. I know it's not just men.
> 
> I also don't see how my opinion is insulting. So, yes, I'm getting out of a marriage with someone who is very, very unkind. And he's also a cheater, and once his cheating was discovered, his behavior became worse. Still, he's the one who refused to work through it and had no interested in continuing on in our reconciliation. Cheating IS a factor in my relationship failure, and it is in nearly all, if not all, of the divorces in my circle of friends. I can't think of anyone I know who has left a marriage simple because their spouse is a nag and yells at the kids, especially without getting counseling first.
> 
> If you left your marriage because you were simply unhappy, ok, that's your experience. I'm not implying YOU cheated just because it sounds to me like OP might have/might want to. He said a lot of things that I consider red flags because I've heard them from cheaters as a way to shift blame and justify their actions.



IMO, you have all ready labeled him as a cheater, and it seems like status quo for some of us here. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...-considering-separation-married-13-years.html

About 3 or 4 posts down.... 
Im not going to keep thread jacking this thread, he had asked for advice, and IMO he has gotten some useful info.. Not everyone is a cheater...


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## FD71 (Jun 2, 2015)

Not an update but a response to some of the questions. 

First there is no other woman for me and as far as I know and believe there is no other man for her. 

Have I been checked out, emotionally yes. I would not argue with that. 

A couple of additional comments about the yelling. Although it feels a bit like over blowing things. She is actually somewhat better now than she was a couple of years ago. Since the kids have been toddlers, it feels like there has not been a single day when she did not raise her voice to me or the kids. That is actually not true. Two years ago we went on a family canoe/camping trip. It was great. No yelling. We had fun. A saw a glimmer of hope and I remember thinking, why can’t it be like this most of the time. I understand and can handle the occasional period of stress and acting out. But why is acting like you are stressed out the norm and the opposite the rare occasion. 

“Wanting to relax”. When I said that it what I meant was not the physical relaxing like sitting on the couch. I meant the relaxation of being around someone who is not going snap at you or the kids. I like my kids and being their dad. I don’t mind the hard work of parenting. My wife works some weekends, and I often enjoy those weekends more than the ones when she is around. 

I have not ruled out counseling, I just don’t know if I want to try it. There are some significant fundamental divides between us. I am pretty laid back and have a “things will work out attitude”. She is a perfectionist and has very high expectations for everyone else. But at the same time will let herself off the hook. 
Just because I am laid back does not mean I am a slacker. I do most of the cooking, dishwashing, and have a pretty demanding job. She works nights and so 3 nights a week I have full responsibilities for the kids from 6:30 pm until they get to school/daycare the next morning. When I have been at work all day and she has been home she still thinks its my responsibility to make dinner and have it ready in time for her to eat and go to work.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sammy64 said:


> IMO, you have all ready labeled him as a cheater, and it seems like status quo for some of us here.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...-considering-separation-married-13-years.html
> 
> About 3 or 4 posts down....
> Im not going to keep thread jacking this thread, he had asked for advice, and IMO he has gotten some useful info.. Not everyone is a cheater...


I don't want to threadjack either, but in the post you referenced, the OP did say there was someone else he was looking at. Am I interpreting wrong?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

FD71 said:


> Not an update but a response to some of the questions.
> 
> First there is no other woman for me and as far as I know and believe there is no other man for her.
> 
> ...


Have you even asked her if she would be willing to do counseling?

10 years ago I yelled a lot at the kids, too. Well, mostly my son. He was my second and was an extremely difficult baby/toddler/ I had a very tough time for a few years there as a mostly SAHM. Has your wife ever considered an anti-anxiety med/anti-depressant? It helped me a lot back then...I was on one for 2 years from when my son was ages 2-4. I also was diagnosed with PMDD, so that was a HUGE factor.

None of your problems sound like unsolvable issues to me. Not that you're looking for it, but I would definitely not give my stamp of approval on divorce in this situation, sorry.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Cheating IS a factor in my relationship failure, and it is in nearly all, if not all, of the divorces in my circle of friends. I can't think of anyone I know who has left a marriage simple because their spouse is a nag and yells at the kids, especially without getting counseling first.


I know a TON of men who've left marriages because they got to the point with nagging, critical spouses that they stop having any intimacy and get lonely and are sick of dealing with it.

I work with two guys right now who talk about this exact issue with their spouses and would rather be at work than go home and have to put up with it. I know exactly how they feel.

My own now husband left his ex-wife for this reason and he never cheated on her. I see her at family and she's fairly cordial to me but still lobs underhanded insults at him when she talks to me. Even divorced, she can't help herself. 

Again, to assume this guy is a cheater because he wants to leave a negative, angry spouse is unreasonable. A lot of people just get their fill of the horrible environment and can't take one more day of it. Not all men that want divorces are cheaters.



> My wife works some weekends, and I often enjoy those weekends more than the ones when she is around.


OP, I totally understand this sentiment. I can remember fantasizing every single day about how it would be to live on my own.

The reality, once I moved into my own home, was even better than what I dreamed of. The first night in my new home was the best sleep I had gotten in years.



> I have not ruled out counseling, I just don’t know if I want to try it.


I ruled out counselling too. I had asked to go for years and he said 'no' because the problems were mine, not his. So I just went ahead and made a plan to fix MY problems by getting divorced. Once he realized what I was planning, he finally suggested we go to counselling but it was too late for me. The last thing I wanted to do was to save my marriage. I wanted out.

I don't know how you're making the decision whether or not to try but for me, it was really about realizing that the distance to find common ground with my ex was insurmountable and wasting more time wasn't an option. I had goals that I would never achieve with him and wasn't willing to give up.

In the end, you get one life....so if you squander all your time & energy on the wrong person, you don't get another chance.

You really have to do some soul-searching to figure out if there's anything about your relationship with her that's worth trying for.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Again, to assume this guy is a cheater because he wants to leave a negative, angry spouse is unreasonable. A lot of people just get their fill of the horrible environment and can't take one more day of it. Not all men that want divorces are cheaters.


I agree with what you've said, And I believe I've made it clear that there were several things/phrases he said in his OP that were red flags to me and not just the fact that he's in a "horrible environment."


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sometimes you are just mismatched. I grew up in a culture where married people screamed at one another (think the Costanzas in Seinfeld). The parents of my friends did this and they seemed to just be OK with it. My parents did not interact this way & it really stressed me out being at my friends' houses. If I had a spouse like that, I doubt I would last very long, frankly.

Anyway, I am in the 'life is too short' camp. You sound like you had buyer's remorse from the start and that mindset has never really left you. It is very possible that your wife senses your unhappiness, as well, which can't be a wonderful circumstance for her.

If you do tell her that you want a divorce, though, you might be surprised at her willingness to change the things that bug you. If she manages that, would you still want the divorce? Somehow, I think you would.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Sometimes you are just mismatched. I grew up in a culture where married people screamed at one another (think the Costanzas in Seinfeld). The parents of my friends did this and they seemed to just be OK with it. My parents did not interact this way & it really stressed me out being at my friends' houses. If I had a spouse like that, I doubt I would last very long, frankly.
> 
> Anyway, I am in the 'life is too short' camp. You sound like you had buyer's remorse from the start and that mindset has never really left you. It is very possible that your wife senses your unhappiness, as well, which can't be a wonderful circumstance for her.
> 
> If you do tell her that you want a divorce, though, you might be surprised at her willingness to change the things that bug you. If she manages that, would you still want the divorce? Somehow, I think you would.



I think this is a great post, and a lot of what some of us go through *IMO*..
I think the buyers remorse is real, also not fair to the SO and I understand that to. After years of abuse ( Verbal, emotional and financial ) some can't take it any more. I checked out of my marriage 4 or 5 years before I filled the paperwork to divorce. 18 years of the [email protected], the different sh!t tests and the parent alienation of my daughter. No one deserves to be treated that way. I also fall under the thought of " life is to short " camp to...

their was *NO* infidelity on both parts,


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I don't want to threadjack either, but in the post you referenced, the OP did say there was someone else he was looking at. Am I interpreting wrong?


IMO, yes I believe you are interpreting it wrong. As males we look at females, just like females look at males, its a natural thing. Dose not mean he had done anything or even acted on it, and its the same with this poster, nothing has happened and he is not even looking for it. So to throw out there as a thought/act or anything else is just wrong IMO.. we can not project our own experiences onto someone else when we really don't know their the whole story.. I think we TAM members sometimes jump to fast to the conclusions of infidelity.. 

I'm sorry to keep hitting on this infidelity, but i see it time and time again on TAM and sometimes its just not the case..


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Wife works nights, has 3 kids one being a one year old.

Been there, and done that.

Exhaustion makes a crabby person, just saying.....


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

FD71 said:


> I am considering/planning to file for divorce or separation. Quick details. Married 14 years, 3 kids, 11, 9 and 1. We never should have gotten married. I remember having doubts on our wedding day and even before. The first couple of years things were fine. I am not sure I was happy, but I don’t recall being real depressed or upset either. One thing I do remember is that when my oldest daughter was born not feeling as excited as I should. I don’t blame my wife for the situation; I should have been more honest with how I feel back then.
> 
> 4 or 5 years ago I remember trying to be more supportive and improve our marriage, but it seems that whenever I would try and be extra nice she would do something to really piss me off. Vacations are another issue. I don’t look forward to them at all. Both the pre-vacation yelling while we are packing and the yelling about stupid stuff while we are on vacation. When our oldest was 5, my parents took us to Hawaii. It was during the school year and so the teacher asked her to put a journal together for the trip. I remember my wife fighting with my daughter to make her do this journal. I don’t remember the fun on the vacation; I remember the yelling and fighting about the journal. She was five. I grew up in a house with almost no yelling. My kids get yelled at 10 times more in a year than I ever got yelled at during my entire childhood. Sometimes it feels like I am living in a bad sitcom about miserable people.
> 
> ...


What about your kids? Do you want them raised by an angry, yelling mother? Get counseling with your wife for THEM. That it may make things better for you is gravy.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

I totally get where you're coming from. But...there's ways to combat this first before proceeding to divorce. 

First...people treat you a certain way because YOU allow it. I'm not there to see every interaction between you two or your wife and kids but any disrespect from her needs to be addressed when it happens. 

Next, Google this MMSLP. It's a book that will help YOU. 

There are phases you need to go through before divorce. I truly believe if you run through these phases first you'll have a better handle on yourself and be better prepared to divorce and find that better woman if it comes down to that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

So why did you keep having children with her? Now you want to be selfish and leave them? Stay and insist she get help for her temper. She sounds stressed out and tired working odd hours and taking care of children. Are you doing your share of the housework? It also sounds like you two aren't spending enough time together working different hours. It might be a good idea for her to quit work and just be a Mom. She would be less stressed and tired. Maybe she is resentful that she has to work. She should be home with your children, especially the baby.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> So why did you keep having children with her? Now you want to be selfish and leave them? Stay and insist she get help for her temper. She sounds stressed out and tired working odd hours and taking care of children. Are you doing your share of the housework? It also sounds like you two aren't spending enough time together working different hours. It might be a good idea for her to quit work and just be a Mom. She would be less stressed and tired. Maybe she is resentful that she has to work. She should be home with your children, especially the baby.


OP, I wouldn't recommend this advice because if you decide to divorce her, it increases the chances that you'll have to pay her alimony and it sounds like that's where you're headed.

Its such gender bias to suggest that she's the one who should be sitting home all day while you're out dealing with the entire financial burden of the household...maybe you're the one who should stay home all day.

There's a ton of working women with children who don't verbally abuse their husbands. There is ZERO excuse for this behavior. 

The idea that you have to bribe her by letting her sit on her butt all day so that she's not emotionally castrating you is ridiculous. You don't pay someone to not abuse you.

Very bad advice on a number of levels, in my opinion.


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## Chauncey Hernandez (Jun 4, 2015)

I know how you feel. I've done research and it's pretty common for females to use anger as a coping mechanism for stressful events whereas men tend toward withdrawal. My wife used to get angry after periods of stress, now she immediately resorts to anger to control situations. We have both out each other under a lot of undue stress in our years together. We both have goals and it seems like we're not achieving them together. We try to communicate with each other about how to make it better but it always devolves into a hurtful pattern. We will eventually have an argument that starts over something small and is sometimes just a blatant setup. That argument turns into a superargument that involves all of her resentments from 9 years freshly thrown back in my face as if we've never addressed them. It makes me feel so terrible. I stay depressed, and we eventually just accept each other's company and become complacent. This lasts for a couple months until the next nearly identical fight happens again. I hate the way it makes me feel and I don't know if we can become better individuals while we are together. :/


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I stay depressed, and we eventually just accept each other's company and become complacent. This lasts for a couple months until the next nearly identical fight happens again. I hate the way it makes me feel and I don't know if we can become better individuals while we are together. :/


Its really hard to break well-established habits like this. I certainly couldn't do it with my ex.

What are you planning to do in the long run?


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## Chauncey Hernandez (Jun 4, 2015)

I have no idea. I don't want to understate the severity of these arguments... I dread and worry about them happening. But the thought of interrupting the family (son 7, daughter 5) is paralyzing and I don't know how to cope with all the hurt that such a change would cause for everyone involved. At the same time I feel like this pattern is causing damage we can't see and needs to stop more than anything.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I have no idea. I don't want to understate the severity of these arguments... I dread and worry about them happening. But the thought of interrupting the family (son 7, daughter 5) is paralyzing and I don't know how to cope with all the hurt that such a change would cause for everyone involved. At the same time I feel like this pattern is causing damage we can't see and needs to stop more than anything.


I'm sorry this is happening. I had a similar situation in my first marriage and after time realized that my kids were seeing a lot more than I thought they were. I finally decided that I didn't want them growing up in this kind of home. Transitioning after divorce for the kids was definitely not easy but about a year in, the patterns were established and I can honestly tell you that my kids are sooooo much happier than they used to be and I think they're more successful in their lives because we're not together.

I didn't try counselling, it wasn't worth it for me...but it helps some couples to learn better communication methods. Have you thought about trying that?


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## Chauncey Hernandez (Jun 4, 2015)

I brought up the subject after talking about it with a friend who also counsels people, and suggested we try. She essentially said she would go to counseling under protest. 

Not trying to label her as "the bad guy". I have carried plenty of anxiety and stress home from work myself. I'm not always successful at my part of the relationship but I feel like I deserve to be loved and supported even if I come up short. She's beautiful and she makes me laugh in ways that no one else can. She sings so sweetly. But sometimes (a lot this past year) I find myself trying to gauge how much of the time we are friends and how often we are enemies. It's a toss up. 

It's hard to be a guy who is very sensitive to feelings. Men are taught from a young age to suppress and cover vulnerable emotions. That's hard for me because I feel like my feelings are all over my face and I am affected by others' feelings around me. It isn't something I can turn off.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I think she would be more relaxed if she didn't work nights.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Chauncey Hernandez said:


> I have no idea. I don't want to understate the severity of these arguments... I dread and worry about them happening. But the thought of interrupting the family (son 7, daughter 5) is paralyzing and I don't know how to cope with all the hurt that such a change would cause for everyone involved. At the same time I feel like this pattern is causing damage we can't see and needs to stop more than anything.


I always thought about my child, and what was happening in our house, and how her mother treated me, and then I started to notice that my child started to treat me like her mother, that's when I started having an issue with the situation. I had tried to talk to the mother, but never got anywhere with it. she refused to go to MC, That the issues was just in my head. 

I come from a broken home, and I did not want to break up my family, as I knew what it did to me, and I tried to save the marriage, but it just got to the point that I was a stranger in my own house and lived like that for a few years. I also knew that my daughter could not grow up like that, to see the abuse, live it and in her adult life display it. I had to make the choice to do what I did. 

Very hard decision to make but I can say that it was the best decision I made. yes I broke the family up, her mother was very vindictive towards me, told my daughter all kinds of hurtful things that was not true. about 12 months out from then moving out she came to me and apologize to me for the things she had done. I never cry, but that day I broke down in front of her. she doesn't blame me for what I did, and said that if it was happening to her that she would have left also. She is glad that we divorced as she said she could not stand to be around both of us. We never fought, we never talked but she knew something was wrong. 

my child is doing much better now. 
I guess what I am saying is that, your kids will mock you when they grow up, you are there roll models and they will replicate what they have learned and think its ok because mom and dad was like that. 

Apologize for the rant, Try MC or IC, and if it don't work out, then do what's right for you and your kids....


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