# When the WS has "positive" memories of Emotional Affairs



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

My spouse had a short term online only EA with a college age woman from another country. We are in counseling and have been since d-day 5 months ago. Our relationship is improving but there are still many landmines and I struggle on a hourly basis with his "positive outlook" and rosy memories of his powerful EA. He even had the nerve to tell me that he "picked her in his fantasy of a alternate universe) he's a science fiction geek. 

I told him that his_ perfected frozen in time EA_ is my utter destruction. He gets that but doesn't really get it because he's has never experienced any sort of loss/broken heart with the exception of ending the EA. He described it as "ending it at the peak". He's been in NC but he says it's still hard not to wonder about her and their amazing "connection". 


That got me to thinking---- I know some WS start to open their eyes and see the affair for the wrecking ball that it is. The perfection begins to chip and the reality of their AP is under the microscope---- but is there any help for the BS to deal when the WS has enshrined the affair inside the crystal ball ??

I know realistically that because he never met her in real life he has created this illusion in his head....I get the science behind the brain chemistry ( dopamine etc) but none of that makes it easier to deal with. 


How does one deal when they still struggle with the desire for their EA???? Does that go away, is it normal, does it spell doom???


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

It shows that he has very little remorse for what he did. Did you expose the A or was this something you kept between the two of you?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

I remember watching a few TV Shows (can't remember the name or details), on Internet chats, EA and the like. What struck me was that some person who wasn't attractive was playing a role behind the computer screen of being youthful, sexy, exciting in order to seduce their prey. Some woman even used her daughter's picture as bait, pretending that was she. In short, it's all fake.

The person who your WS believes he is in love with is a fake. Could have used a fake picture. Could have been play acting. Was not real. The OW gets her kicks out of the attention from other men, because she can't get that attention in real life. She is pathetic and lonely, and the computer is her only source for "romance" so she will lie and play to get that attention. And some H's fall for their lines.

Your WS's "positive" memories are fake memories. Words on a screen embedded into his head by a player who is no doubt lonely and unattractive. You are a real person. You are the real person he fell in love with.

If I could link you to those programs I saw, I would have him watch them. It's a reality check. You might be able to do a search for video on You tube in regards to internet dating scams. Or do a web search on internet dating scams. Either way, the message is the same. Your WS's so called "memories" are nothing more than words on a screen.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

mahike said:


> It shows that he has very little remorse for what he did. Did you expose the A or was this something you kept between the two of you?



I understand that there could be positive memories....but the regret should cancel them out.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

He brings them back in his memory field, because it gives him pleasure or feeling appreciated etc..
The feelings should fade away over time. But he should will it. If he does not, he is in a fool's paradise.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

It's a pretty cruel thing to say, especially is you're trying to rebuild your wife's self esteem and repair the damage done. And I agree with survivorwife, by all means he could've been talking to a man trolling the board.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Read up on the affair fog. He's in it, deeply still. You need to snap him out of this fog in order to break the fantasy.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

In my H's case it takes the counselor discussing what they did not know about the AP. And what they didn't share with the AP. If they have had NC for enough time, they can be reasoned with.

But there was another thread on here (did highwood start it?) About how BSs want the WS to malign the AP (confusingly, I think she said "BS" instead of "WS" in the title of the thread but everyone knew what was meant). The consensus was that unless the AP reveals themselves to be a nutjob, the positive view of the AP in an emotional affair isn't going to go away.

Our counselor has taken the bull by the horns. We spent our last 1.5 hour session discussing my insecurities at being second-best. And how it's on my H to woo me back to prove that's not the case.

My H has done some of this but our counselor basically said it's up to my H to now become the pursuer. I am still going to hold up my end of meeting several core needs of his that weren't being met before and other ones during the affair.

But I know she was interesting, attractive, and a strategic listener. That is what APs are. The best you're going to strive for is objectivity where the AP is concerned. You aren't going to get hate unless they do something overtly to the WS that deserves such a reaction.

Our counselor said that the avg person will meet about 4 to 5 people in their lives with whom they can achieve a deeper emotional connection. (I realize the Internet can increase this # with smoke and mirrors.) There is no such thing as a soulmate. I don't think the BS is going to convince the WS of this--only the AP wacko or a counselor with a more objective point of view stands a chance.

Love is about choosing to devote yourself to the one that you're with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

****But I know she was interesting, attractive, and a strategic listener. ****

What's a strategic listener? Interesting concept.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Someone who validates and affirms, never argues, laughs at all your jokes, and avoids criticism like the plague.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> Someone who validates and affirms, never argues, laughs at all your jokes, and avoids criticism like the plague.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


succinct way of putting it.

But don't forget, sometimes men are looking for someone who challenges them on some level and aren't yes women. I think I read this about Yoko Ono and also Wallis Warford Simpson.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> succinct way of putting it.
> 
> But don't forget, sometimes men are looking for someone who challenges them on some level and aren't yes women. I think I read this about Yoko Ono and also Wallis Warford Simpson.


That's often true. 

In my case, I am that way. I am independent and self sufficient and my STBEH always claimed that is what attracted him to me. 

Still, he cheated with a pampered woman who never lived on her own, never worked, refuses to cook or clean and has a nanny, all supplied by her doting loyal oblivious husband. 

This woman was a "strategic listener" for sure. I saw it in the emails and texts. She would mirror what he said, and always built his ego. They never argue and give lots of admiration and no criticism. 

That's easy to do in an affair bubble. It's like a perpetual first date. 

She also listened to negative things he said about me, and swore she wouldn't do that. For example I like safe cars, she listened and remembered and she told him she like sexy cars. Exactly what he wanted to hear. 

Every thing he complained about with me or that I liked she said the opposite. She was a chameleon

Meanwhile she was bad mouthing her poor husband and criticizing him unfairly for working too hard. 

Well, the guy worked hard to support her lavish lifestyle. He had too. 

With these types of woman the cheater has to realize that soon the OW would be criticizing him too. 

Some wake up, some don't until it's too late and they are the victim of her criticisms and contempt. 

An affair is fairy land.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I'm sorry, OP, but it sounds to me like the only thing he's remorseful about is the fact that the EA has ended. What are you supposed to do with these "positive memories" he has of his EA, and how are they supposed to restore your trust in the relationship and make you feel better?

If he's wanting to heal your relationship, why is he telling you these things?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

John left his wife for Yoko and Edward VIII wasn't married.

I don't see cake-eating cheaters as people looking to be challenged. If anyone fills that role, it's their spouse, who sees them warts and all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> John left his wife for Yoko and Edward VIII wasn't married.
> 
> I don't see *cake-eating cheaters* as people looking to be challenged. If anyone fills that role, it's their spouse, who sees them warts and all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you mean people who want to stay put with spouse and play toy, I suppose you're right. Even so, I would imagine that play toy would be in various measures supportive and challenging.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> If you mean people who want to stay put with spouse and play toy, I suppose you're right. Even so, I would imagine that play toy would be in various measures supportive and challenging.


Well, my H at least fully acknowledges that they only showed each other their best sides. They could never be fully open to the core, because they were both married. He wouldn't tell her my positive qualities, and she'd never do that about her H. It isn't the same as two single people dating, they don't get introduced to their families and friends. He knew her for years and doesn't know the month she was born or her brother's name. 

Maybe you could give an example of how an EA AP challenged the WS, and I could see what you're trying to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> Well, my H at least fully acknowledges that they only showed each other their best sides. They could never be fully open to the core, because they were both married. He wouldn't tell her my positive qualities, and she'd never do that about her H. It isn't the same as two single people dating, they don't get introduced to their families and friends. He knew her for years and doesn't know the month she was born or her brother's name.
> 
> Maybe you could give an example of how an EA AP challenged the WS, and I could see what you're trying to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am thinking of my own situation. my fiancé wanted to continue a "friendship" with someone he used to date and dated along side the time we first started dating.

After reading the e-mails, texts and FB private messages, I think she treated him rather cruelly at times. He said she even told him that he new bf was better in bed than he was.

Yet he didn't drop her as a "friend" until I asked him to and that was under the threat that I would look elsewhere for a bf. 

So it does makeme wonder at times.......


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Really I would be mean about it. I mean hell this woman could be a nigerian teen looking for a big score. Could be some fat middle aged woman with no kids, no life, and seeks out these type of relationships to fill the void. It could be an 18 year old kid screwing around with your H for the lulz. Too bad he is not thinking.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

I've spent time on this issue in IC and MC with my fWS. Her feelings about her AP did shift to the negative once she was out of the fog completely and realized what the affair really did to our lives, and how much of a predator the OM was.

My counselors advice on the topic (counselors specializes in infidelity) was pretty straight forward. Sometimes the memories of the affair will be positive, because while they were happening, the WS was enjoying themselves. Its hard to for the WS to force positive memories to become negative ones, however, a WS/fWS should be able to understand that the affair was a devastating event to the BS, and great care should be taken when discussions about the affair occur.

The BS also has to do some work toward this by accepting the fact the some of the memories their fWS has about the affair/AP may be pleasurable/positive, but that their fWS is consciously choosing to reject he affair/AP and embracing a new life with the BS.

If your partner can't manage to re-frame the way he reflects about the AP, some time needs to be spent on this issue in MC. As mentioned in this thread, your partner may not fully be out of the fog, but he can certainly learn to discuss the affair in less rosy terms.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I did expose the affair to everyone in our real life circle of friends and family but she was from another country and I never exposed her based on limited access to her information. They didn't meet through facebook but through a ipad game message board. One of the odd things she said when I found out and asked him to leave the house was, "well I looked at your wife's facebook page and she didn't "blast" your news on it like a teen"...... odd since she practically was a teen. 

He wrote her a NC letter while we were apart which contained all the _wrong_ things you are never supposed to say, sweet longings, wonderful mushy heart felt sentiments, the likes he has never written to me. That was hurtful and I've never seen the word love thrown around with so much abandon. When the dust settled she responded to his letter which he forwarded to me, then blocked her email but realistically they could create a million fake ones or communicate via his work and I would never know. 

Internet scams, that is perhaps the most troubling part of it all.....he is a internet security expert by trade and "hacks" into things as part of his job and is well versed on all things scam related and yet his guard was down and he let all sorts of our personal information out. He was sending her pics of our children, our house, our lives to a woman from Iran! 

I never felt so violated to know he was sharing all that but he claims he "checked her out to see if she was legit"---- talk about the fox in the hen house. 

I know everyone says time will erase the memories and release the hold from the fog. I know that time has a way of pushing the good stuff to the front and all the bad pain gets smothered ( like childbirth) but damn the _in between_ for the BS is torture. 

I'm sure WSpouses who are trying to repair the marriage have a grasp on the pain they have caused, but in no way can they really feel the death by a thousand cuts like we do. 

Affair fog is the biggest mystery to me.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

.

The person who your WS believes he is in love with is a fake. Could have used a fake picture. Could have been play acting. Was not real. The OW gets her kicks out of the attention from other men, because she can't get that attention in real life. She is pathetic and lonely, and the computer is her only source for "romance" so she will lie and play to get that attention. And some H's fall for their lines.


*You may be on to something there, she is from Iran and that could play a huge role in getting attention from the net as opposed to real life--- where it's more forbidden. :scratchhead:


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Unfortunately, you may have to deal with this for a long time. My WW's favorite movie was (and for all I know still is) "Bridges of ******* County." To try to deal with this, I watched it w/ her and explained my feelings about being second best and sharing the love of someone to whom you're fully committed, and how devastating that is ( I almost killed myself after her affair). That movie has never been brought up since then. I hope that our discussion led to a change in her heart. If not, at least she has the sensitivity to not discuss it. Ultimately, your healing and your plans for your life are in your control, not his. He needs to understand that just sticking around is not enough. Your plans don't have to include him.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Yes, and that's probably a safety net feeling, that I can make my own decisions and ultimately decide that I can't get past it but it's the middle area between stay or leave that is so confusing.

As a BS you don't know if it gets better till you get there I guess? 

I saw this article on ending stages of a emotional affair --

The longer an infidel allows these feelings to continue as a secret, the more he or she will idealize the person the feelings are attached to. Idealization means this partner becomes perfect, and as a result, no one else (e.g., the spouse) can measure up. The partner is beginning to be seen as “all good,” and therefore the infidel will have to see the marriage as “all bad.”

As mentioned earlier, if you encapsulate these feelings at this point, they will only lie dormant to be triggered again later. I usually encourage the infidel to share his feelings with his spouse, after seeking counsel. After all, the spouse has been involved in this story already (in that all affairs are a triangle, even if the spouse is unaware) and might as well know the secrets that are occurring in his/her marriage.

The next concept here is to journal. Write down the feelings you are experiencing in this rather involved and tortuous journey. Feelings don’t have to control an individual, but their influence is strongest when they are held in secret. The longings that have led to this emotional affair are a part of the childhood magic; journaling them gets them out into the open, into the adult realm.

The next step is displacement. Use this process in tandem with some of the other processes. Here you do something else in lieu of focusing on the partner. You can exercise, get involved in spiritual development, or take on different projects or hobbies. This is the “doing” part of healing.

The final idea is to grieve. Though this is extremely difficult for the spouse to observe, it is important and necessary. Many times this needs to start with a “good-bye” letter (written to the adulterous partner). Most infidels find this very painful to do. It seems so unnecessary initially, because (seemingly “nothing evil has happened,” since they didn’t have sex. Only after thorough processing, and the passage of time, will the infidel be able to look back and see how befuddled his/her thinking really was.

This is also a good time for the infidel to review his/her “loss history,” and this leads naturally to grieving. What other significant caregivers, friends, loved ones, or pets has the infidel lost that parallel the lost feelings in giving up the affair? The infidel will probably want to do this in private and only later will be able to share the depth of the experience with his spouse.


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