# Makeup age for kids?



## RandomDude

Having a bit of slight conflict over my parental triangle at the moment. My daughter is 11, and her friends are wearing make up. She's been asking me to take her out to make up stores and hinted what she wanted for Christmas, yes, makeup. Ex-wife as well as my soon fiancee both say no, and both are threatening to whack me upside the head if I dare take her there, ex-wife in particular reckons I'm too soft on her. I've listened to them so far as its 2v1 but opinions welcome.

BTW have you SEEN some of the names of the makeup products?!
"Sex Machine" "OrgasmX" "Bumpy Ride"

🤦‍♂️


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## bobert

You can compromise. Buy her clear mascara or brown so that it's not so obvious. Tinted lip chap instead of lipstick. Natural products/brands that are better for her skin.

My daughter doesn't have much interest yet and only has her face caked with makeup and fake lashes for dance stuff, but I know several girls who started with makeup at 11. They started slowly, with more natural products. That's not what the tweens wanted, but it was the compromise made.


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## minimalME

Reflecting what @bobert wrote...

When I was growing up, my mom's response to just about everything was, 'no'.

Instead of coming along side of me and taking an interest and helping me understand what was age appropriate and why, she did what was convenient for her.

So, I would lie, and I would do what I wanted to do anyway - with no adult guidance.

Makeup was one of these things.

As her dad and as a man, I think it would be very helpful and special for you to start having open discussions with her about these topics. Let her know that you hear her.

Why does she want to wear makeup? Does she feel pressure? Does she want to fit in? Does she think she's unattractive? Is she (at age 11) purposefully trying to attract attention from boys? Or is it just curiosity?

There is sooo much to choose from, and it can be really fun. 🤗

For an eleven year old, there might be clear mascara and very pale lip glosses and eye liners.

You might consider taking her to a makeup specialist who could offer thoughts.

I hardly wear any makeup at all, but one of my favorite things to do is to go on instagram and look at all the fun things people do with the products that are available. It's so, super creative.

So, instead of shutting her down with a flat 'no', to me, it would be awesome for you to find a way to be engaging about all this in a way that's appropriate for her age. 🙂


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## RandomDude

bobert said:


> You can compromise. Buy her clear mascara or brown so that it's not so obvious. Tinted lip chap instead of lipstick. Natural products/brands that are better for her skin.
> 
> My daughter doesn't have much interest yet and only has her face caked with makeup and fake lashes for dance stuff, but I know several girls who started with makeup at 11. They started slowly, with more natural products. That's not what the tweens wanted, but it was the compromise made.


I got a feeling, based on the make up her friends wear, that a compromise would not be sufficient. Just a feeling lol.



minimalME said:


> Reflecting what @bobert wrote...
> When I was growing up, my mom's response to just about everything was, 'no'.
> Instead of coming along side of me and taking an interest and helping me understand what was age appropriate and why, she did what was convenient for her.
> So, I would lie, and I would do what I wanted to do anyway - with no adult guidance.
> Makeup was one of these things.


Yeah that's what I'm scared about, also the fact that if she grows a fear of coming to me she won't come to me in the future for more serious issues; aka boys.



> As her dad and as a man, I think it would be very helpful and special for you to start having open discussions with her about these topics. Let her know that you hear her.
> Why does she want to wear makeup? *Does she feel pressure? Does she want to fit in?* Does she think she's unattractive? Is she (at age 11) purposefully trying to attract attention from boys? Or is it just *curiosity?*


From what I gathered, its mainly her peers, curiousity, and that she thinks it's pretty. She also likes to keep to the trends. Her little group mostly follows her around but now some have pretty much already started it and now she wants to have her go. I wouldn't say it's pressure, more influence.



> There is sooo much to choose from, and it can be really fun. 🤗
> For an eleven year old, there might be clear mascara and very pale lip glosses and eye liners.
> You might consider taking her to a makeup specialist who could offer thoughts.
> I hardly wear any makeup at all, but one of my favorite things to do is to go on instagram and look at all the fun things people do with the products that are available. It's so, super creative.
> So, instead of shutting her down with a flat 'no', to me, it would be awesome for you to find a way to be engaging about all this in a way that's appropriate for her age. 🙂


Both my ex-wife and my partner are going to kill me. I also don't even know where to start without their help. I mostly you know... wait outside the store lol.
If I go in with my daughter I'm just going to be like, is it under $100, then ok! My partner always whacks me over that.


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## Diana7

Absolutely no way. Just becaue a few others may be wearing it makes no difference. I would say that if she still wants to she can wear it when she is older, say 14. I just hate to see such young children dressed up as adults with make up etc.
Sometimes you have to be firm and if her mum and your partner are being very sensible in saying no, you should as well. Not everything such a young child wants is good for them or the right thing. Be her parent not her friend. .
I bought up 2 daughters, neither wore much make up and didnt wear it till they were around 15-16. Thankfully they werent allowed to wear it to school either. till the 6th form which is 17-18.
The names you quoted for the make up are just yuk.


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## pastasauce79

I started "experimenting" with make up when I was 11. 

To me it's not a big deal and I let my 9 year old to wear and have make up. She doesn't wear it every day. It's mostly when she's playing with her girlfriends. 

She actually has a lot more make up than me, lol! She has taught me how and why to use a product (I'm such a plain Jane!) I enjoy her "teachings" since we are bonding and having a good time. 

I don't like my daughter choosing bright colors. For some reason, girls think the brightest eye shadow and lipstick are better! I know my daughter likes to use red lipstick, she can use it at home but I don't let her use it when she's out.

My mother never made a big deal of me wearing makeup when I was a teen. Sometimes I looked awful but she never said anything. She let me be, and I never had to hide it from her, like many of my friends did. Little by little I moved away from wearing makeup all together. 

I think this stage is very normal. Make up has been around for a long time. My grandma had it, my mom has it, I have it, so it has been in our lives for a long time. 

If I were you, I would try to compromise, she can get lighter colors, nothing like fake eyelashes and stuff. She can get a few things at the make up store and other things at the drug store (cheaper.) No red lipstick! Lol! She also needs to get makeup remover products and facial moisturizer. 

To me makeup is not a big deal. I think there are worse things to worry about.


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## LosingHim

11 was when I started wearing makeup. My mom never told me no, but she also didn't buy me my own. I used hers. Since my mom and I have very different skin tones (I got my dads skin color) her makeup looked horrible on me. And I walked around for a couple years with an orange face and too intense eye color. In essence, I looked like a clown and my mom let me LOL. 

When my now 19 year old daughter expressed an interest in makeup at roughly the same age, I allowed her to wear it. But instead of her experimenting and looking like a clown, I bought her age appropriate makeup for her skin tone. A VERY pale pink neutral eye shadow, along with a very pale blush. Clear mascara and a tinted chapstick. Along with talks about how makeup is supposed to enhance your features and not overpower them or make you look too made up. Now, at 19, she's very accomplished with doing full face makeup looks for fun, but nine times out of ten leaves the house with just a little mascara and lip gloss. 

It's natural for a girl to want to experiment. Especially when friends are. More than likely, once she learns what a hassle it is, she won't want to wear it as often as you'd think.


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## RandomDude

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely no way. Just becaue a few others may be wearing it makes no difference. I would say that if she still wants to she can wear it when she is older, say 14. I just hate to see such young children dressed up as adults with make up etc.
> Sometimes you have to be firm and if her mum and your partner are being very sensible in saying no, you should as well. Not everything such a young child wants is good for them or the right thing. Be her parent not her friend. .
> I bought up 2 daughters, neither wore much make up and didnt wear it till they were around 15-16. Thankfully they werent allowed to wear it to school either. till the 6th form which is 17-18.
> The names you quoted for the make up are just yuk.


I have so far, her mum says mid-late high school, my partner says at least high-school, both say 11 is too young. My daughter is quite sassy, she's always been (my fault), when her mum flat out said no she came running to me. I took the side of my ex-wife as despite everything we try to have a united front... well, most of the time. I'm normally the "ok, your mum is right, this is why" or "lets try something else, isn't this a better way" parent, and worst case "let's try working it out with mum another time".

But with make up, I'm kinda lost in the "this is why" part. Help me, if I decide on this approach.
And yeah, the names on some makeup products are indeed WTF, I found those in the red blush section being dragged in once. Like really? It's haunted me since. Strange vibe in there too. I stand outside most of the time with my fellow male lost souls.



pastasauce79 said:


> I started "experimenting" with make up when I was 11.
> To me it's not a big deal and I let my 9 year old to wear and have make up. She doesn't wear it every day. It's mostly when she's playing with her girlfriends.
> She actually has a lot more make up than me, lol! She has taught me how and why to use a product (I'm such a plain Jane!) I enjoy her "teachings" since we are bonding and having a good time.
> I don't like my daughter choosing bright colors. For some reason, girls think the brightest eye shadow and lipstick are better! I know my daughter likes to use red lipstick, she can use it at home but I don't let her use it when she's out.
> My mother never made a big deal of me wearing makeup when I was a teen. Sometimes I looked awful but she never said anything. She let me be, and I never had to hide it from her, like many of my friends did. Little by little I moved away from wearing makeup all together.
> I think this stage is very normal. Make up has been around for a long time. My grandma had it, my mom has it, I have it, so it has been in our lives for a long time.
> If I were you, I would try to compromise, she can get lighter colors, nothing like fake eyelashes and stuff. She can get a few things at the make up store and other things at the drug store (cheaper.) No red lipstick! Lol! She also needs to get makeup remover products and facial moisturizer.
> To me makeup is not a big deal. I think there are worse things to worry about.





LosingHim said:


> 11 was when I started wearing makeup. My mom never told me no, but she also didn't buy me my own. I used hers. Since my mom and I have very different skin tones (I got my dads skin color) her makeup looked horrible on me. And I walked around for a couple years with an orange face and too intense eye color. In essence, I looked like a clown and my mom let me LOL.
> 
> When my now 19 year old daughter expressed an interest in makeup at roughly the same age, I allowed her to wear it. But instead of her experimenting and looking like a clown, I bought her age appropriate makeup for her skin tone. A VERY pale pink neutral eye shadow, along with a very pale blush. Clear mascara and a tinted chapstick. Along with talks about how makeup is supposed to enhance your features and not overpower them or make you look too made up. Now, at 19, she's very accomplished with doing full face makeup looks for fun, but nine times out of ten leaves the house with just a little mascara and lip gloss.
> 
> It's natural for a girl to want to experiment. Especially when friends are. More than likely, once she learns what a hassle it is, she won't want to wear it as often as you'd think.


Yeah I don't really understand much about it, either than some fears of her later thinking it's the norm and won't feel pretty without it later etc etc. Still from your experiences it seems normal to try at 11 and I'm sure you guys turned out normal lol. But I'm still overall clueless with it and I tend to just follow the advice of the experts, my daughter also now opening up to me about it and being quite adamant. I honestly don't even what to say. If I do decide to take the opposite approach from above, I also need to convince her mum. My partner pretty much accepts my decision with my daughter either way, but made it very clear her opinion and what she would do if she was her kid, kinda sets a "yup, we're going to fight about this" note.

I did google earlier about it and I found one perspective that makes me a bit worried - bullying. Pretty much it brought up that some girls who wear make up may start bullying on those who don't. I've had some issues in the past where my daughter and her friends were accused of bullying but could never prove anything and I've never seen her been mean in that way. She's very inclusive as well to less sociable kids. But I dunno... I do wonder if I do let her do this, all her remaining friends are going to want to do it, their parents all gonna hate me too lol


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## LosingHim

One thing I found very important with my own girls was to let them know often that they are beautiful, but more importantly that their beauty comes from within. I know it’s cliché, but it does ring true. You could have the worlds most beautiful face, but if you’re ugly inside – it’s just congratulations about your face LOL.


But I started very young with pointing out their features in positive ways. “You have such beautiful blue eyes” or “you have the perfect nose”, heck my younger daughter has the worlds most amazing eyebrows and I tell her that often. Both of my daughters are gorgeous, but my younger one has a very unique look and I’ve told her often that she could be on the cover of a magazine without a stitch of makeup. But every time I bring up a compliment, I try to also include with it a positive note about how they are beautiful on the inside. Or something about how smart or accomplished they are. My oldest is also very beautiful, but she’s also a Dean’s list college student. So sometimes when she sends me a picture, I will respond “beauty, brains and compassion”. Or “you are gorgeous, intelligent and driven”. Or, “You are beautiful and I know you will accomplish everything you set your mind to”.


My mom ONLY focused on beauty. I was attractive when I was younger, but that really only seemed to be the most important thing to my mom. “Do boys think you’re pretty?” “Are you popular” “LosingHim, no one is going to want a wife who isn’t put together perfectly”. So, I focused a LOT on my outer appearance, but not much on the inside. My outer appearance drove a lot of my choices in life – and many of them were not good.


I think a lot of how she reacts with makeup will be how confident she is in herself and that she’s knows that her outer beauty is not the only thing that matters. My 13 year old has never been interested in makeup, but she KNOWS she’s beautiful without it.


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## StarFires

Daughter: "But all my friends are doing it!"
Parent: "If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?"

Daughter: "But Suzy's mom let her do it!"
Parent: "But I'm not Suzy's mom. I'm your mom."

Question: Whatever happened to real parenting?
Answer: Social media.


Both stepmom AND mom - her MOTHER - told both of you "no." But what do you do? You come HERE??? for other people's opinions on what you should do....for people to tell you to ignore the wishes of your child's MOTHER and those of your own girlfriend. Why aren't you wondering why you get bopped in the head so much? Why do you keep going around asking to get whacked?

You're all proud that she asked daddy for help, so you keep trying to figure out a way to do it. But, it's not good that she asked you because she only asked to go against her mother. That's called pitting her parents against each other. You should be teaching her to respect and obey her mother. Instead, you're busy trying to help her ignore and defy her mother.

This does not a good father make.
This is called *Guilty Daddy Syndrome*.....
_"Guilty Father Syndrome occurs when a divorced father's guilt about his family breaking apart manifests in his uncontrollable need to please the emotionally wounded children. Aware of the emotional toll of divorce, guilty fathers vie for favorite-parent status by indulging a child's every whim. He simultaneously becomes a toy store, ATM and doormat. Guilty fathers toss discipline out the window, avoid the enforcement of household rules, and spoil their kids with heaps of material items. Even worse, they completely abdicate the heavy lifting of parenting....."_

And it's called *Disney Daddy Syndrome*.....
Actual legal definition: _“A noncustodial parent who indulges his or her child with gifts and good times during visitation and leaves most or all disciplinary responsibilities to the other parent." _Free-range parenting is more his style.

Your fifth mistake.....


RandomDude said:


> Both my ex-wife and my partner are going to kill me. I also don't even know where to start without their help. I mostly you know... wait outside the store lol.
> If I go in with my daughter I'm just going to be like, is it under $100, then ok! My partner always whacks me over that.


.....deciding to do this no matter what, ignoring those you should be teaching your daughter to listen to. You don't get whacked enough so you must like it.

Your fourth mistake.....


RandomDude said:


> Yeah that's what I'm scared about, also the fact that if she grows a fear of coming to me she won't come to me in the future for more serious issues; aka boys.


.....parenting out of guilt because you don't know your role as father. You are supposed to help her other parent teach her to be respectful and teach her what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. Her mother says it's not age-appropriate. You don't teach her that her mother doesn't know what she's talking about, and you don't ask other people's opinions. Your role is also to teach her about boys and to respect herself when it comes to relationships. It's a conversation that should begin around 12 years old and continue repeating until she's married in order to keep reminding her to love herself and have high self-seteem. You don't wait for her to come to you. You initiate the conversations and keep initiating them. That's how you educate her and how you make her a confident woman one day. That's how you make her comfortable enough to come to you when she needs to. You are her father, the first man in her life, her first love. You are uniquely equipped to start your daughter out on the right path. None of it will matter right now. If you tell her she has to wait until her mother says it's the appropriate time to wear makeup, she will get mad at you, but you have to let her be mad. She's a child and she will act like a child who doesn't get her way. But it will do her a world of good as an adult. It's the difference between actually parenting a child and not bothering to be anything more than a sperm donor and ATM machine. Your job is to teach her things, not help her do whatever she wants whenever she wants.

Your third mistake.....


RandomDude said:


> Ex-wife as well as my soon fiancee both say no, and both are threatening to whack me upside the head if I dare take her there, ex-wife in particular reckons I'm too soft on her. I've listened to them so far as its 2v1 but opinions welcome.


.....ignoring your child's mother (and your girlfriend) and then coming here for opinions over hers.

Your second mistake.....


RandomDude said:


> From what I gathered, its mainly her peers, curiousity, and that she thinks it's pretty. She also likes to keep to the trends. Her little group mostly follows her around but now some have pretty much already started it and now she wants to have her go. I wouldn't say it's pressure, more influence.


.....not teaching her it's okay not to follow the trends, not to follow the crowd, and not to be a follower but a leader. It's okay to be different and go against the grain. It's okay to have her own mind, her own ways, her own thinking, and her own sense of self-respect.

Your first mistake.....


RandomDude said:


> Having a bit of slight conflict over my parental triangle at the moment. My daughter is 11, and her friends are wearing make up. She's been asking me to take her out to make up stores and hinted what she wanted for Christmas, yes, makeup.


.....thinking there is conflict because there wasn't any conflict until you created it by not teaching your daughter to respect her mother, not being a united front with your child's mother, playing monkey in the middle between your daughter and her other parent, and supporting your daughter in creating this triangulation by pitting you against her mother. Her mother has her reasons for saying no. You should support that instead of causing conflict in their home. You're teaching your daughter to not only disrespect her mother, but the long-term consequence is that she also learns to disrespect authority.


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## BlueWoman

I don't know. I think the answer is pretty obvious. Her mother and future step mother both think it's too soon. I think that is sort of the end of the story. Make up is a bit about sexuality. And are you really ready for your daughter to go there yet? On a personal level, I agree, 11 is too young. I am waiting for my niece to turn 13 and then plan to take her for a department store make over. But I sure wouldn't do it without her mother's blessing. And I definitely you should either. 

Also, what are you doing letting your daughter make $100 dollar purchases? Listen to your partner. She has some common sense.


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## RandomDude

@StarFires

Understood, but as I mentioned I'm not going ahead with getting her makeup without consulting her mum, even if I was to please my daughter. That simply won't work. We do still have a united front. Hence collecting pros and cons, planning to discuss it with both of them, and move on.

She is already a leader in her little group, as I mentioned if she starts packing on the rest of them are going to start packing, if she doesn't she's under no pressure. She's stubborn, but that also includes with us, but she isn't a rebellious child, she accepts our judgement but she opens up with why she still doesn't understand. Her mum is probably better equipped to deal with this, I need to come to my own understanding as well.

@BlueWoman 

Yes but I want a better argument than mum and stepmum says no. I've always talked it out with her. And even when I say no, I still talk it out with her, that's just how I am as a dad. 

As for $100 purchases, overall she's still very well behaved and obedient if not inquisitive and challenging at times when we are at home. So I never see why not.


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## pastasauce79

StarFires said:


> Both stepmom AND mom - her MOTHER - told both of you "no." But what do you do? You come HERE??? for other people's opinions on what you should do....for people to tell you to ignore the wishes of your child's MOTHER and those of your own girlfriend. Why aren't you wondering why you get bopped in the head so much? Why do you keep going around asking to get whacked?


Yeah, I didn't address this issue and I agree. 

If you feel it's not a big deal then talk to your wife and girlfriend. Between the 3 of you maybe compromise and get a few products. Some soft eye shadow, lipgloss, clear mascara (but I have to say it doesn't work.)

I'm a little surprised women have an issue with younger girls wearing makeup. My little one has been "stealing" my makeup since she was a toddler. I knew she liked it and I started buying her colored chapstick and kids make up very early because I didn't want her messing up my cosmetics. 

Like I said. My mom didn't have an issue with me or my sister wearing makeup. Now a days she's the one telling me to wear lipstick!


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## RandomDude

LosingHim said:


> One thing I found very important with my own girls was to let them know often that they are beautiful, but more importantly that their beauty comes from within. I know it’s cliché, but it does ring true. You could have the worlds most beautiful face, but if you’re ugly inside – it’s just congratulations about your face LOL.
> 
> But I started very young with pointing out their features in positive ways. “You have such beautiful blue eyes” or “you have the perfect nose”, heck my younger daughter has the worlds most amazing eyebrows and I tell her that often. Both of my daughters are gorgeous, but my younger one has a very unique look and I’ve told her often that she could be on the cover of a magazine without a stitch of makeup. But every time I bring up a compliment, I try to also include with it a positive note about how they are beautiful on the inside. Or something about how smart or accomplished they are. My oldest is also very beautiful, but she’s also a Dean’s list college student. So sometimes when she sends me a picture, I will respond “beauty, brains and compassion”. Or “you are gorgeous, intelligent and driven”. Or, “You are beautiful and I know you will accomplish everything you set your mind to”.
> 
> My mom ONLY focused on beauty. I was attractive when I was younger, but that really only seemed to be the most important thing to my mom. “Do boys think you’re pretty?” “Are you popular” “LosingHim, no one is going to want a wife who isn’t put together perfectly”. So, I focused a LOT on my outer appearance, but not much on the inside. My outer appearance drove a lot of my choices in life – and many of them were not good.
> 
> I think a lot of how she reacts with makeup will be how confident she is in herself and that she’s knows that her outer beauty is not the only thing that matters. My 13 year old has never been interested in makeup, but she KNOWS she’s beautiful without it.


Good points, I do believe my daughter has a healthy self-esteem thus far, and her confidence still carries across when she brought up make up. I do believe it is solely for the reasons I mentioned above, however I do fear the reliance of it over time - and as you mentioned, a focus on the external rather then internal beauty. That's one aspect that pulls me towards my ex-wife's perspective (and my partner's). She is always complimented also by friends and family not just for being cute and pretty, but by her intelligence, obedience, politeness and warmth. Though the second one gets questioned whenever she starts challenging things, but she's never just outright done something out of turn. Not yet anyway.


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> @StarFires
> 
> Understood, but as I mentioned I'm not going ahead with getting her makeup without consulting her mum, even if I was to please my daughter. That simply won't work. We do still have a united front. Hence collecting pros and cons, planning to discuss it with both of them, and move on.
> 
> She is already a leader in her little group, as I mentioned if she starts packing on the rest of them are going to start packing, if she doesn't she's under no pressure. She's stubborn, but that also includes with us, but she isn't a rebellious child, she accepts our judgement but she opens up with why she still doesn't understand. Her mum is probably better equipped to deal with this, I need to come to my own understanding as well.
> 
> @BlueWoman
> 
> Yes but I want a better argument than mum and stepmum says no. I've always talked it out with her. And even when I say no, I still talk it out with her, that's just how I am as a dad.
> 
> As for $100 purchases, overall she's still very well behaved and obedient if not inquisitive and challenging at times when we are at home. So I never see why not.


So if she is a leader why is she so bothered that her friends wear make up? That makes her sound more like a follower. 

I think you need to stop letting her manipulate you to give her things that her mother wont. I think you spoil her rather.


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## Diana7

pastasauce79 said:


> Yeah, I didn't address this issue and I agree.
> 
> If you feel it's not a big deal then talk to your wife and girlfriend. Between the 3 of you maybe compromise and get a few products. Some soft eye shadow, lipgloss, clear mascara (but I have to say it doesn't work.)
> 
> I'm a little surprised women have an issue with younger girls wearing makeup. My little one has been "stealing" my makeup since she was a toddler. I knew she liked it and I started buying her colored chapstick and kids make up very early because I didn't want her messing up my cosmetics.
> 
> Like I said. My mom didn't have an issue with me or my sister wearing makeup. Now a days she's the one telling me to wear lipstick!


If her mum has said no she is far too young, then why would or should she agree to go and buy some stuff? I am surprised that some mums here think that its ok for children of 9-11 to wear it. Yes toddlers will copy their mum and what she does whether good or bad, but that isnt the same as going out wearing make up when they are still years off even being a teenager. I think its so sad that young children feel they need to try and act and dress like an adult so many years before they are.

Sometimes parents need to say no because its not appropriate and support each other no matter what.


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## sokillme

I think it depends on the kid. Is she responsible? Can you compromise. Just telling a kid no without explanation usual leads them to pursue that in the end. Maybe she gets to wear it on special occasions for instance.

I personally think the my way or the highway idea leads to paster's kids syndrome.


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## Cletus

'Betcha you don't ask any questions here about feminine products in the future, do ya?


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## Diana7

sokillme said:


> I think it depends on the kid. Is she responsible? Can you compromise. Just telling a kid no without explanation usual leads them to pursue that in the end. Maybe she gets to wear it on special occasions for instance.
> 
> I personally think the my way or the highway idea leads to paster's kids syndrome.


Yes a no with an explanation is important.


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## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> Yes a no with an explanation is important.


And if your kid is a good and responsible kid what is the explanation? Why not yes but slowly and responsibly.


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## RandomDude

Diana7 said:


> So if she is a leader why is she so bothered that her friends wear make up? That makes her sound more like a follower.
> 
> I think you need to stop letting her manipulate you to give her things that her mother wont. I think you spoil her rather.


From what I figured, she's not bothered that they wear make up, she's bothered we wont let her as she's determined she wants to try it on herself lol

I do spoil her but within reason, and most of the time we are united with our parenting.


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## RandomDude

sokillme said:


> I think it depends on the kid. Is she responsible? Can you compromise. Just telling a kid no without explanation usual leads them to pursue that in the end. Maybe she gets to wear it on special occasions for instance.
> *I personally think the my way or the highway idea leads to paster's kids syndrome.*


What I hope to avoid yes.



Cletus said:


> 'Betcha you don't ask any questions here about feminine products in the future, do ya?


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> From what I figured, she's not bothered that they wear make up, she's bothered we wont let her as she's determined she wants to try it on herself lol
> 
> I do spoil her but within reason, and most of the time we are united with our parenting.


I suspect she is bothered to some extent if all her friends wear it, but she is so young yet. If none of them wore it I doubt she would have even have thought about it. But then you said that if you let her, her friends mums wouldnt be pleased, so not sure if many of them actually do wear it. 
Its tempting I guess to spoil a child after a divorce but its really not a good idea. She wont learn the true value of money, about saving for things, about waiting, or that she cant keep having expensive treats.
I just wish kids understood how very short their childhood was, and to enjoy it without trying to be minature adults.


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## StarFires

RandomDude said:


> Both my ex-wife and my partner are going to kill me.


That indicates you're going to do it, and that's what I was going by. Great if you're not going to do it.

I never got permission from my mom. When I was 13, I would just put on makeup when I was at my friend's house. She's the one with the beautiful black lab named Snoopy that bit me one time, if you read that story. This friend and I got into a whole bunch of stuff together LOL. I let her lead me into almost all of my firsts - wearing makeup, skipping school, drinking, cheating on tests (until our Civics teacher told me to stop letting her copy off my papers. Yikes, didn't know he knew), we once stole something from a department store, and she exposed me to marijuana although I didn't smoke it with her (my first time was with my older sister), and I wouldn't let her pressure me into having sex no matter how hard she tried.

Anyway, I heard her father on the phone one day with his buddy say, "I have a house full of the prettiest girls in the world looking like clowns right now." I went and washed my face and didn't put any on again until a year later when my older sisters snuck me into a night club. I knew I had to look older than I was.

My point is, she needs to learn how to apply makeup when the time comes. Hopefully, her mom or stepmom will teach her but if not, take her to a department store so they can show her how or YouTube instructional videos.

And you don't have to buy that stuff with the awful names. Makeup can be purchased anywhere, and it's pretty much all the same.



RandomDude said:


> Yes but I want a better argument than mum and stepmum says no. I've always talked it out with her. And even when I say no, I still talk it out with her, that's just how I am as a dad.


"Daughter, I know growing up is hard and there are lots of things you want to be able to do. There are many things that you CAN do, but some things you have to wait until it's time for you to do them. Your mom doesn't want you to grow up too fast, and it's best for you to experience things in life at the appropriate times.

You wouldn't approve of her having sex at 11 years old. She can't be dating at 11 years old. She can't have a Sweet 16 at 11 years old. She can't graduate high school at 11 years old. She can't get married at 11 years old. She can't have a 9-5 job at 11 years old. Everything in it's due time. She has to be taught that. The older she gets, the more you and mom can relax the rules a little bit, but 11 isn't the time. When it comes to wearing makeup and dating, it's best if she can be given the age at which time she will be allowed to do those things. "You can start wearing makeup when you're X years old" so she will know those rules and have that to look forward to. Talk with her mom so the two of you can set the age for makeup and the age for dating.



RandomDude said:


> Good points, I do believe my daughter has a healthy self-esteem thus far


You can't suppose that with girls. She's only 11. There is no indication whatsoever. Most women struggle with self-esteem issues as teenagers and adulthood. Have you ever wondered why women tolerate abuse by their husbands and boyfriends? Self-esteem has to be instilled and it has to start early. Read my first post again, please. That's your job.


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## RandomDude

Diana7 said:


> I suspect she is bothered to some extent if all her friends wear it, but she is so young yet. If none of them wore it I doubt she would have even have thought about it.
> Its tempting I guess to spoil a child after a divorce but its really not a good idea. She wont learn the true value of money, about saving for things, about waiting, or that she cant keep having expensive treats.


Not all, just some. The way she sees it, we just have no real reason to be this strict on her, she asks why we don't allow it. I don't know exactly what my ex told her except what she told me she told her, but I'm like... 

Also is it wrong to have a part of me wish they never grow up? Sometimes I feel like that, but another part of me wants them to as well. I dread the coming years if this is any indication.


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## RandomDude

StarFires said:


> That indicates you're going to do it, and that's what I was going by. Great if you're not going to do it.


Heh yeah that comment was more of a joke, don't worry I know where the big red button is lol



> I never got permission from my mom. When I was 13, I would just put on makeup when I was at my friend's house. She's the one with the beautiful black lab named Snoopy that bit me one time, if you read that story. This friend and I got into a whole bunch of stuff together LOL. I let her lead me into almost all of my firsts - wearing makeup, skipping school, drinking, cheating on tests (until our Civics teacher told me to stop letting her copy off my papers. Yikes, didn't know he knew), we once stole something from a department store, and she exposed me to marijuana although I didn't smoke it with her (my first time was with my older sister), and I wouldn't let her pressure me into having sex no matter how hard she tried.
> Anyway, I heard her father on the phone one day with his buddy say, "I have a house full of the prettiest girls in the world looking like clowns right now." I went and washed my face and didn't put any on again until a year later when my older sisters snuck me into a night club. I knew I had to look older than I was.
> My point is, she needs to learn how to apply makeup when the time comes. Hopefully, her mom or stepmom will teach her but if not, take her to a department store so they can show her how or YouTube instructional videos.
> And you don't have to buy that stuff with the awful names. Makeup can be purchased anywhere, and it's pretty much all the same.


Yeah lol, that's kinda what I'm hoping my daughter won't end up doing - doing all such without our permission.



> "Daughter, I know growing up is hard and there are lots of things you want to be able to do. There are many things that you CAN do, but some things you have to wait until it's time for you to do them. Your mom doesn't want you to grow up too fast, and it's best for you to experience things in life at the appropriate times.
> 
> You wouldn't approve of her having sex at 11 years old. She can't be dating at 11 years old. She can't have a Sweet 16 at 11 years old. She can't graduate high school at 11 years old. She can't get married at 11 years old. She can't have a 9-5 job at 11 years old. Everything in it's due time. She has to be taught that. The older she gets, the more you and mom can relax the rules a little bit, but 11 isn't the time. When it comes to wearing makeup and dating, it's best if she can be given the age at which time she will be allowed to do those things. "You can start wearing makeup when you're X years old" so she will know those rules and have that to look forward to. Talk with her mom so the two of you can set the age for makeup and the age for dating.


Yeah I noticed the examples you gave in your first post. Sadly, my daughter would challenge all of that, I know her, she'll tell me makeup isn't jumping off a bridge, and pulling rank like what my ex does just puts her at my door. And if I don't at least talk to her about it and pull rank as well, I fear the situation you mentioned above - she starts going behind both our backs. I need something stronger and be certain to convince her. I like to be the line in the sand when it comes to what she chooses to do or what she chooses not to do.



> You can't suppose that with girls. She's only 11. There is no indication whatsoever. Most women struggle with self-esteem issues as teenagers and adulthood. Have you ever wondered why women tolerate abuse by their husbands and boyfriends? Self-esteem has to be instilled and it has to start early. Read my first post again, please. That's your job.


Well, I'm not sure what else I can do for her esteem, especially if there's no indication of any lack - as of yet.


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## RandomDude

Hmmm... had a "bling" moment...

IF I am to find a compromise, I can word a compromise together, by telling her she has to prove she can wear makeup responsibly, then start with the less intense makeup products mentioned already. That should satisfy her... IF I can convince her mum on it, who is pretty much "NO! And I will murder you"


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## gold5932

I would take her to a professional makeup consultant and have them advise her what's the best for her eyes, lips, etc. They will teach her to apply and how to look natural. Good makeup is not cheap and good foundation is a must for young skin. If she's going to wear it with confidence a professional is best. Not just a sephora employee. Plan on spending more than $100. But it's worth it.


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## DownByTheRiver

11 is far too young. she says her friends wear makeup but the truth is her friends just want to wear makeup like she is and aren't allowed to. Mom knows best on this. Wait until she's about 14. 

My mom did that for me in the 1960s and she just showed how to apply natural looking eyeliner and things like that that probably kept me from looking trashy in high school! Although later I did go rogue and start wearing all kinds of heavy makeup.

Even Sephora or Mac will usually just do a natural look on young people though they may ask them if it's for an occasion or if they want it natural or dramatic. So for a young teen best mom be there or a big sis.

Of course nowadays you can also pick up a lot off of YouTube.


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## Spicy

My dad was a firm NO WAY. It was because most of the girls my age looked like hookers. So my mom took me to a professional and asked them to teach me to do a natural look. Dad didn’t even notice. Gradual would be my recommendation, but always respect the other parent.


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## pastasauce79

Diana7 said:


> Sometimes parents need to say no because its not appropriate and support each other no matter


Of course parents need to say no to inappropriate things, but makeup to me it's not a big deal at all, unless the kid wants to leave the house looking like a Picasso! My kid doesn't wear makeup often, and she mostly does it when she's playing with her friends. 

You can say no, you can think it's too soon, you can feel sad about it but the reality is every kid is different and believe me, whatever they are not allowed to do at home, they are going to find another place to do it.

I think there are far worse things to worry about.


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## heartsbeating

RandomDude said:


> I've listened to them so far as its 2v1 but opinions welcome.


I'm not a parent, however, I do have a keyboard and an opinion. Yay me!

I think what is more important is that the adults around her are aligned. Otherwise, she could learn to ignore the boundaries of one, knowing she can push the boundaries of another. I agree with some other thoughts here about explaining reasons, or providing some form of interdependence for different scenarios, however, I think regardless of personal thoughts about whether make-up on an 11yo is too young or not, her parental unit needs to be aligned as much as possible - to provide her with clear guidance.


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## StarFires

RandomDude, I can't believe some of the advice you're getting here. I also can't believe your mixed messages, contradictions, and assumptions about your daughter, or that you keep planning to help her defy her mother. And you're mistaken to think she needs an explanation. "Because I said so" is an explanation, and it's enough. But from what you're telling us is she demands explanations. Makes a person wonder who the parent is. You're too concerned about pleasing her and not making her unhappy instead of being a parent.

Strikingly shows the difference, and the need, for a child to have proper guidance. If she's allowed to grow up too soon on this one issue, she's going to take liberties with others as time goes on.....because the adults in her life don't know what they're doing if she can play them against each other so easily.

But keep on letting these people convince you that none of it matters. You were wrong to come here with this in the first place, so you're getting what you wanted. You both are.


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## heartsbeating

RandomDude said:


> Not all, just some. The way she sees it, we just have no real reason to be this strict on her, she asks why we don't allow it.


I was speaking with my mother recently and we were reminded of a scenario from when I was around 11. There was a 'leader' of sorts in my peer group who was arranging for us to go to the city alone and by train. I begged, pleaded, whined haha to be allowed to go. My mother said, 'No' I can't remember exactly what she said but I recall that she thought we were too young and I know she was concerned about safety. The answer was No. I felt like a dork telling the friend and group I wasn't allowed. What ended up happening was the others then sheepishly admitted they weren't allowed either. Another friend's mother even spoke with mine, relieved, as she didn't want her daughter going. Turns out, by me saying I wasn't allowed, the others felt more comfortable saying they weren't allowed either. Anyway, the outing didn't happen.

Maybe your daughter can lead the way in staying natural for a couple more years.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Spicy said:


> My dad was a firm NO WAY. It was because most of the girls my age looked like hookers. So my mom took me to a professional and asked them to teach me to do a natural look. Dad didn’t even notice. Gradual would be my recommendation, but always respect the other parent.


I have absolutely never understood makeup. It's so fake. And even when it's done well, it's like a barrier to me. I want to be able to stroke someone's cheek and not have makeup come off on my finger. I want to kiss without ending up wearing makeup myself. I want to be able to plan spur of the moment activities, and not have to wait ages for 'the face' to go on.

The whole thing is just ridiculous. When are we going to stop promoting beauty as a woman's primary value? When are we going to let people have realistic ideas of what people should look like? When do we stop teaching 9-11 year old girls they need to look and act older?

Your child's desire for makeup is driven not by her own wants, but by what society has told her she should want. It's up to you to help her resist that until she's old enough to figure it out on her own.

Tell her she can get makeup when she's mature enough to know not to ask you for it behind her mother's back.
Tell her she can get makeup when she's gotten into the habit of applying sunscreen regularly and responsibly.
Tell her she can get makeup when she's old enough understand that the need to be fake-attractive is driven by the media and makeup companies.
Tell her she can get makeup when she does her normal hygiene routine of toothbrushing, face cleansing and showering, etc, completely independently without reminders.
Tell her she can wear makeup when she's attending a wedding, a graduation, or a job interview.
Tell her she can get makeup when it's not peer-pressure driven by what her friends are doing.

But maybe, just maybe, with PRIOR discussion with her mom, you can get her some tinted lip balm at Christmas.


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## bobert

"Because I said so" is not a reason. It's a cop-out. It doesn't make any sense to the person on the receiving end, because there is no reason to it. It's a missed opportunity to teach good decision making and reasoning. It's a missed opportunity to teach proper communication, not one-sided communication. It's a missed opportunity for connection. And it's a surefire way to solve nothing and create more resentment and misunderstandings.

If you're going to say no to makeup, that's fine, but at least explain why and talk through it with her.


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## Spicy

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I have absolutely never understood makeup. It's so fake. And even when it's done well, it's like a barrier to me. I want to be able to stroke someone's cheek and not have makeup come off on my finger. I want to kiss without ending up wearing makeup myself. I want to be able to plan spur of the moment activities, and not have to wait ages for 'the face' to go on.
> 
> The whole thing is just ridiculous. When are we going to stop promoting beauty as a woman's primary value? When are we going to let people have realistic ideas of what people should look like? When do we stop teaching 9-11 year old girls they need to look and act older?
> 
> Your child's desire for makeup is driven not by her own wants, but by what society has told her she should want. It's up to you to help her resist that until she's old enough to figure it out on her own.
> 
> Tell her she can get makeup when she's mature enough to know not to ask you for it behind her mother's back.
> Tell her she can get makeup when she's gotten into the habit of applying sunscreen regularly and responsibly.
> Tell her she can get makeup when she's old enough understand that the need to be fake-attractive is driven by the media and makeup companies.
> Tell her she can get makeup when she does her normal hygiene routine of toothbrushing, face cleansing and showering, etc, completely independently without reminders.
> Tell her she can wear makeup when she's attending a wedding, a graduation, or a job interview.
> Tell her she can get makeup when it's not peer-pressure driven by what her friends are doing.
> 
> But maybe, just maybe, with PRIOR discussion with her mom, you can get her some tinted lip balm at Christmas.


I do understand your viewpoint, and agree with much of what you said.

My makeup takes 3-5 minutes a day. I also don’t wear it every day. Like I mentioned, my dad was very against it, and I didn’t get to start until about JR High. At the time it felt like I was the only one who didn’t get to wear makeup yet, and that was a crappy feeling. It’s an awkward enough age as it is. Guess what though, I survived LOL.

I do think it looks absurd on girls that are too young. 11 seems on the young side for me. Unfortunately, many whose parents won’t allow them to wear it, just sneak and put it on at school. I took a slow approach with my kids, allowing small bits to be added over time, but always with approval of their father first. This made it truly so much less of a big deal than it was for me.


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## StarFires

bobert said:


> "Because I said so" is not a reason. It's a cop-out. It doesn't make any sense to the person on the receiving end, because there is no reason to it. It's a missed opportunity to teach good decision making and reasoning. It's a missed opportunity to teach proper communication, not one-sided communication. It's a missed opportunity for connection. And it's a surefire way to solve nothing and create more resentment and misunderstandings.
> 
> If you're going to say no to makeup, that's fine, but at least explain why and talk through it with her.


I gave him a suggestion for the explanation. I guess you missed it. But "Because I said so" certainly is a reason to a child because a parent has no business thinking they owe their CHILD an explanation, and a child has no business thinking they can challenge their parents and demand one. It takes about 2 seconds or less to speak those words, which leaves 31,535,998 seconds of the year to teach good decision making and reasoning, proper communication, and connection. People who are/were parented properly as children had resentment and misunderstandings. It's part of growing up and isn't ever going to change.

How one communicates with adults is up to them, but that's not the topic of this discussion, so there was no point discussing it.


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## RandomDude

In regards to defiance, my daughter may question, may annoy us, may demand explanations and even when we tell her to drop it she brings up days later because she doesn't understand. But she doesn't disobey us - yet. This is an aspect of her that will never change and I am responsible for it. Ex-wife and I have to work around it ever since I sowed the seeds to make her question everything including authority. She does not mean defiance when questioning us, she means only to understand. She questions authority but still succumbs to ours because she understands fully why our authority is to be respected. She can only swallow her nature for so long before she starts asking others and then it comes straight back to us.

This is just how she is. There is a long story why she is like this, but I'd rather not get into it on this section of this forum. Suffice to say, ex-wife and I came from two different backgrounds, we were of different race, religion and socio-economics. Our daughter is a product of several factors of that.


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## BlueWoman

Alright, here is why I think 11 is too young for make-up. It makes an 11 year old look like she’s older...13, 14, 15...even older. It makes her look available. You may find it disgusting to think of a 11 year old like that, but I the first time I was inappropriately approached I was 13, on a city bus and I wasn’t wearing any make-up. She’s going to have face that world some day. You won’t be able to protect her, but the longer you hold it off the more time she has to develop skills to combat it. 

Like I said, I was 13 when it happened. I was on a city bus and an older man sat next to me on the (nearly empty) bus and started making explicit suggestions. At 13 I knew that he was a predator, and instead of sitting there being embarrassed I told him that if he didn’t get up so I could get out, I would start screaming. He got up and I moved closer to the bus driver. I don’t know what I would have done if I had been 11. (I probably wouldn’t have been on the bus a 11.). 

I suspect that is what both your ex and your partner are feeling by restricting make up. They want to keep her from looking like a target. 

Wanting to wear makeup is normal for a 11 year old, but there is a good reason to not allow it. 

If you were going to suggest a compromise to your ex suggest that she buy inexpensive make that she is only allowed to wear at home, or for very special occasions that are supervised by adults. But that she can’t wear it at school or in public spaces. I don’t know if you daughter will go for it, but your partner and ex might agree to that.


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## RandomDude

BlueWoman said:


> Alright, here is why I think 11 is too young for make-up. It makes an 11 year old look like she’s older...13, 14, 15...even older. It makes her look available. You may find it disgusting to think of a 11 year old like that, but I the first time I was inappropriately approached I was 13, on a city bus and I wasn’t wearing any make-up. She’s going to have face that world some day. You won’t be able to protect her, but the longer you hold it off the more time she has to develop skills to combat it.
> 
> Like I said, I was 13 when it happened. I was on a city bus and an older man sat next to me on the (nearly empty) bus and started making explicit suggestions. At 13 I knew that he was a predator, and instead of sitting there being embarrassed I told him that if he didn’t get up so I could get out, I would start screaming. He got up and I moved closer to the bus driver. I don’t know what I would have done if I had been 11. (I probably wouldn’t have been on the bus a 11.).
> 
> I suspect that is what both your ex and your partner are feeling by restricting make up. They want to keep her from looking like a target.
> 
> Wanting to wear makeup is normal for a 11 year old, but there is a good reason to not allow it.
> 
> If you were going to suggest a compromise to your ex suggest that she buy inexpensive make that she is only allowed to wear at home, or for very special occasions that are supervised by adults. But that she can’t wear it at school or in public spaces. I don’t know if you daughter will go for it, but your partner and ex might agree to that.


Well, that's pretty messed up. I really have no idea how make up on a child somehow makes one look available but I don't consider these predators human either and don't bother trying to understand them. Safety is one solid reason to explain to her. I'm waiting for my partner to get home from work before I drill her for her reasons too but ultimately she has no say in it (either than yelling at me), and I'd rather not have to talk to my ex about it until I have something substantial. 

I also like your compromise, wearing it only at home, at special occasions and always supervised - I don't think there's any reason why she should have a problem with those restrictions with the reasons my daughter gave me. That's if her mum is even open to a compromise.


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## bobert

StarFires said:


> I gave him a suggestion for the explanation. I guess you missed it. But "Because I said so" certainly is a reason to a child because a parent has no business thinking they owe their CHILD an explanation, and a child has no business thinking they can challenge their parents and demand one. It takes about 2 seconds or less to speak those words, which leaves 31,535,998 seconds of the year to teach good decision making and reasoning, proper communication, and connection. People who are/were parented properly as children had resentment and misunderstandings. It's part of growing up and isn't ever going to change.
> 
> How one communicates with adults is up to them, but that's not the topic of this discussion, so there was no point discussing it.


Nope, "because I said so" is not an acceptable answer. You can keep repeating yourself but you are not going to change my opinion, which is an educated opinion not an opinion fueled by my personal insecurities.

I'm not surprised about your parenting style though (do you even have kids??). You perceive _everything_ as a challenge. Someone here disagrees with you, and you see that as an attack and need to assert yourself. Someone here says nothing to you but expresses an opinion you disagree with, you must prove yourself right above everyone else. So, of course your parenting style will be the same. There is no room for discussion, no room for compromise, and no room for an earnest question. It's you asserting your power and authority over the child. That is an authoritarian parent, and that style of parenting has poor outcomes.

A parent has "no business" thinking they own their child an explanation? That is complete and utter ********. You're right about one thing, "because I said so" is a very quick phrase - for the lazy parents, the impatient parents, and the parents who simply don't give enough ****s to talk to their children like they have a functional brain. Does it solve the situation though? No, it does not. It teaches the child that their opinions do not matter, that they do not have a voice, that they are not worthy of an explanation. It teaches them to just go with the flow and never question things that affect their life, and that extends far past their parents. It teaches them nothing about the situation and they are FAR more likely to ask over and over why they cannot do x, y, or z. If the parent had given them a valid reason, even if the child didn't like it, at least they understand the reasoning and there can be a lesson or skill learned. The child has every right to understand the situation and decision. They are not just along for the ride.

Who else would you give the reasoning "because I said so" to? Your boss? Your mom? Your spouse? Would YOU like to hear it from your boss? Your doctor? If you have your leg amputated and the doctor orders physiotherapy, does he explain WHY you need physiotherapy and what happens if you don't do it? Or does he say "because I said so"? An informed patient is a better, healthier patient. If your boss changes a procedure at work, should he explain WHY it needs to be done differently, or should he say "because I said so"? I'll give you a hint, it's the former and that results in better outcomes and happier employees. You wouldn't say "because I said so" to anyone else and you wouldn't want to hear it from someone else, so why are children being treated any differently? They are not any less human than anyone else around you, treat them as you would other people.

Or, I could have summed this all with "I'm right, because I said so".


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## heartsbeating

RandomDude said:


> Safety is one solid reason to explain to her. I'm waiting for my partner to get home from work before I drill her for her reasons too but ultimately she has no say in it (either than yelling at me), and I'd rather not have to talk to my ex about it until I have something substantial.


What would _your_ reasons be? Or do you not really have any in mind?

From my view, in thinking of an 11yo, it would be that her skin is healthier without it, she looks pretty as she is, and that her age is a factor - that it's something she could do when she is a bit older if she wants to then (teenager). What are her reasons for wanting to wear it?


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## RandomDude

heartsbeating said:


> What would _your_ reasons be? Or do you not really have any in mind?
> 
> From my view, in thinking of an 11yo, it would be that her skin is healthier without it, she looks pretty as she is, and that her age is a factor - that it's something she could do when she is a bit older if she wants to then (teenager). What are her reasons for wanting to wear it?


Her reasons are the same reason she's pestering us; curiousity and she thinks it's pretty on her friends who do wear it and she wants to try it too seeing as her age group have already started experimenting.

As for my reasons, honestly, I didn't really have any until coming to this thread. Like I didn't get why my ex just can't show her how to slap some on, have some fun with her friends, wipe it off. Like dressups and facepainting. Yes, I'm an idiot when it comes to these girly things. Sadly, my daughter did not become the tomboy I wanted but I love her nonetheless.

But now thinking more about it, safety from predators, potential for dependence and weaker self-esteem, the former can be mitigated, the latter I don't know. Guess those can be my reasons.


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## RandomDude

So...

I asked my partner who is holding onto her guns with her opinion and that I shouldn't let her wear makeup at all at her age. She agrees wholeheartedly with my ex-wife, her reasons are that it is unnecessary at her age and natural beauty is always better, that she needs to learn to be content with her natural beauty, that chemicals will eventually destroy her skin. However when I brought up a compromise - she says only children's make up, amongst her friends, at home, under adult supervision, and makeup comes straight off after their little playtime, then ok. 

She also says if I let her wear real makeup (which I wont without ex's approval, which is also unlikely), and she will find out, even though she's not her child, I'm sleeping on the ground for three months lol. Anyway I think her reasons are solid as well. I'm going to discuss with ex the compromise my partner and I discussed if she is indeed just curious, but yeah, I'm also now convinced not to allow it. We're going to talk to my daughter together and my partner agreed to help her understand.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

I'm purposefully not commenting as I don't have daughters, just boys.

Most of family friends have daughters and we've seen this gine through but this is a touchy subject between parents and kids so I'm just observing and learning more points of view.


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## pastasauce79

RandomDude said:


> her reasons are that it is unnecessary at her age and natural beauty is always better, that she needs to learn to be content with her natural beauty, that chemicals will eventually destroy her skin. However when I brought up a compromise - she says only children's make up, amongst her friends, at home, under adult supervision, and makeup comes straight off after their little playtime, then ok.


Please don't buy children's makeup unless you are sure the ingredients are non toxic. 

Children's makeup it's famous for having toxic ingredients in it. The colors are horrible. The texture is horrible (it smears easily.) The smell is horrible. I'm guessing you guys don't have a clue about the different products available now a days.

If you want to protect your child's skin, buy her other products. I'd rather buy cover girl makeup vs. children's makeup. And don't buy anything waterproof or it will stay on the skin forever! Lol! 

I understand girls look better without makeup. I understand the feeling, but that's our feeling. Our kids are different people and they have different opinions and wishes for themselves. 

We want to teach them to be responsible and independent but when WE feel they should be responsible and independent, not when they want to or when they feel ready.

How much makeup does your daughter want? What products does she want? 

When I talk about makeup I don't mean having a full makeover! I'm talking about a little foundation, some mascara and some lipgloss. Just a little to have fun. 

Like I said before, there are worse things to worry about than makeup.

I think it's a great tool for moms and daughters to bond and have a good time. I enjoy having spa days with my daughter. We give each other massages, manicures, pedicures, makeup. We laugh, we talk. I find out how she's feeling, what she's thinking, what she wants to do. Even though I hate girly stuff I do it to bond with my daughter. 

I'm pretty flexible with these kind of things because my mom was pretty flexible as well. I turned out ok and I have a great relationship with my mom. I want to have the same relationship with my daughter.


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## bobert

RandomDude said:


> However when I brought up a compromise - she says only children's make up, amongst her friends, at home, under adult supervision, and makeup comes straight off after their little playtime, then ok.


You probably want to avoid children's makeup and just look for non-toxic, natural brands instead. My wife has never let my daughter play with makeup marketed for children because "it's garbage".


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## RandomDude

pastasauce79 said:


> Please don't buy children's makeup unless you are sure the ingredients are non toxic.
> Children's makeup it's famous for having toxic ingredients in it. The colors are horrible. The texture is horrible (it smears easily.) The smell is horrible. I'm guessing you guys don't have a clue about the different products available now a days.
> If you want to protect your child's skin, buy her other products. I'd rather buy cover girl makeup vs. children's makeup. And don't buy anything waterproof or it will stay on the skin forever! Lol!


Really? I would have to tell my partner as she mentioned it while discussing compromises, don't think she ever tried it though.



> I understand girls look better without makeup. I understand the feeling, but that's our feeling. Our kids are different people and they have different opinions and wishes for themselves.
> We want to teach them to be responsible and independent but when WE feel they should be responsible and independent, not when they want to or when they feel ready.
> *How much makeup does your daughter want? What products does she want?*


Erm, I'm about as clueless as the next guy and whatever I hear goes straight over the head like explaining rocket science to a cave man. 



> When I talk about makeup I don't mean having a full makeover! I'm talking about a little foundation, some mascara and some lipgloss. Just a little to have fun.
> Like I said before, there are worse things to worry about than makeup.
> I think it's a great tool for moms and daughters to bond and have a good time. I enjoy having spa days with my daughter. We give each other massages, manicures, pedicures, makeup. We laugh, we talk. I find out how she's feeling, what she's thinking, what she wants to do. Even though I hate girly stuff I do it to bond with my daughter.
> I'm pretty flexible with these kind of things because my mom was pretty flexible as well. I turned out ok and I have a great relationship with my mom. I want to have the same relationship with my daughter.


Yeah if ex-wife is willing for compromise to only do it at home for fun, etc I also see it as good bonding but ultimately it's up to her as her mum.


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## Livvie

I think it's a stage girls go through as they get closer to puberty. They want to try out bras, deodorant, makeup, shaving their legs. It's a natural part of growing up and into knowing one day you will be a woman. Just like when my mom used to let me dress up in her dresses, scarves and heels at home-- girls play dress up. They play dress up on their dolls and barbies, too. 

I definitely have seen girls that get to school and put makeup on then take it off before going home. Same with clothes changes.

Never underestimate kids finding a work around.


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## gold5932

11 years old is way different than it used to be. Makeup is not a big deal. I raised a girl and 11 in CA is way different than 11 in OK. My daughter had her first mani/pedi at 5. It's just not uncommon in CA. Just teach girls how to use and they won't want to use heavy makeup. My daughter was wearing lip gloss and a little mascara at 11. No big deal. But if you make it a big deal, she will not have any input on what looks fine except for youtube and friends. Never buy cheap makeup.


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## Girl_power

I think it’s fun to play with on weekends, but not to be worn to school or everyday.


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## Adelais

Makeup doesn't need to be a huge thing, little girls like to play grown up, and older girls need to know how to properly use it when the time comes. Having 3 daughters, I went the route my own mother went. She took me to a Merle Norman studio when I was in Jr. High and the lady there showed me how to put it on so it looked natural My mother bought me base and blush that matched my skin tone. She didn't wait for me to ask for makeup, so I felt like a big girl, and I put it on the way I was taught.

Merle Norman now has lighter coverage makeups, that are basically shaded moisturizers. That's a great way for a girl to start wearing makeup, so parents don't get to shocked. A cover stick for pimples is nice for a teenage girl, so she doesn't feel self conscious of her pimples. To save $ I bought them a less expensive brand of brown mascara from Walmart, a brown eyeliner pencil and a compact of neutral eyeshadows. They were thrilled to just have makeup, and one could hardly notice they were wearing anything.

If you make it a natural thing, no big deal, and you stress that it is to enhance her natural beauty, not to make her look fake, or like a clown, hopefully she'll not go to extremes with it.


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## Sondiana

Well, my sister is 14 yo, but she has acne, and she uses a foundation to hide them. So, if your child has some problems with the skin, I think it's okay to use a few cosmetics. She uses foundation only when she goes to school or anywhere else. Once, she said she'd like to have some eyelashes extensions, but I said it's too early for her age. She wanted that because I wear false eyelashes. I order them from this site acelashes.com, and wear them every day. I don't have any problem with it. False eyelashes help me to look natural because I use only them instead of cosmetics.


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## Diana7

Sondiana said:


> Well, my sister is 14 yo but she has acne and she uses a foundation to hide them. So, if your child has some problems with the skin I think it's okay to use a few cosmetics.


Trouble is that foundation may make it worse, so if she can leave her skin to breathe as much as she can when at home that would help.


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## Sigint

RandomDude said:


> Having a bit of slight conflict over my parental triangle at the moment. My daughter is 11, and her friends are wearing make up. She's been asking me to take her out to make up stores and hinted what she wanted for Christmas, yes, makeup. Ex-wife as well as my soon fiancee both say no, and both are threatening to whack me upside the head if I dare take her there, ex-wife in particular reckons I'm too soft on her. I've listened to them so far as its 2v1 but opinions welcome.
> 
> BTW have you SEEN some of the names of the makeup products?!
> "Sex Machine" "OrgasmX" "Bumpy Ride"
> 
> 🤦‍♂️


 When I was a girl, I loved sorting through my mother's cosmetics and dreamed of my own. I spent my first earned money on some not very good lipstick and secretly used it in the bathroom. It seems to me that your family has a very strict upbringing. I would suggest that my daughter buy something from cosmetics in a neutral range. Cosmetics from are very good for this purpose . There are many different lip liners, lipsticks and mascara that will help the girl to make a natural makeup .


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## Sigint

Oh, yes! When I was a girl, I loved sorting through my mother's cosmetics and dreamed of my own. I spent my first earned money on some not very good lipstick and secretly used it in the bathroom. It seems to me that your family has a very strict upbringing. I would suggest that my daughter buy something from cosmetics in a neutral range. Cosmetics from the site are very good for this purpose jonteblu.com. There are many different lip liners, lipsticks and mascara that will help the girl to make a natural makeup .


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## As'laDain

My rule on makeup is that my daughter is not wearing any when she is not with us, physically. That said, i do try to let her experiment with makeup in our presence. Usually, she just video chats with her school friends(girls) and they comment about what they like and don't like. 

We don't let her go to school with makeup on, outside of the barest stuff, like maybe a concealer if she scraped or bruised her face(she is nationally recognized in martial arts).

I want her to be able to have experience with it by the time she gets older, but she already knows that it draws unwanted attention in public.

ETA: Forgot to mention... She is 12.


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## /ˌlaNG ˈzīn/

I was, for the most part, a good kid growing up though I did rebel on a few occasions and make-up was no exception. My mom said no; but luckily for me a drug store was in walking distance and with my huge $2.50 allowance each week I bought the brightest purple and blue quads you could imagine so once my mom left for work I had 10 minutes to throw on my eyeshadow and blush leaving for the bus stop looking like Mimi Bobeck. 

Luckily nowadays there is much more to choose from in regards to shades, tones, application, etc. and I think approaching your ex wife and fiancé with the, "what about nude tones, clear or brown mascara...blahblahblah...and teaching her how to apply it", might be something they'd consider? 

I dunno, I feel like make-up is pretty harmless.


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