# Common prob for most but from asian member



## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

I joined this forum last year and kept visiting to read threads but never participated or rather dared participating in any discussion.

The same old story of many members. I have been married for 11 years around. Since day one, I have been very active in sex. Initially, my W was cooperative but never active. I thought it would be normal for some ladies with low sex desire. However, gradually, this sex relation became a one way traffic. Whenever, I wanted (twice a week), I have to do every thing. It is like masturbation with a pillow.

Later I read somewhere that lack of vit-D may be the cause. Many times, I thogught of giving up trying. BUT I had no alternatives. I talked to her several times to cooperate and participate but all in vain. Finally, we reached to conclusion that 
1. It would be once a week. 
2. She would not do anything and would not resist only.
3. Once I am over, she would turn back and sleep.
4. I would not DISTURB during week days.
5. I would not ask her to do it in variety of ways.

Guys, I cant talk about it to any one around. I know many ppl are having similar situation but how to some of you cope with it. I read a thread that your wife should respect your needs. bah.... I tried that as well but that did not work well. Plz come up with some unique practices.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

shes just not that into you.

accept it or make it a deal breaker!


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

optamistic - if you've been reading these forums for a while you must realise that many of us are here for support and friendship. We're in the same place you are - without anybody to talk to about our sex problems. After all, it's not something you usually discuss with your friends, it's embarrassing, shameful, humiliating, to say the least. You'll get some great insights and answers from the people here, but you'll also get a sense of connection and understanding that may be missing from your marriage right now. Hang in, join in the discussions and read people's answers - you've taken the first step by participating. However, there is no magic fix here - improving your situation will take time and effort. In the meantime, welcome to TAM and the friendship of people who are taking the time to answer your questions and discuss your situation with you from a range of points of view  .


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Your wife will judge you on the level of mediocrity you are willing to settle for

Don't settle 

Fix this together or move on

55


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You can't change her - she has to want to change. Nothing will make her want to change, except possibly a wish to remain married and not divorced. A few people have been able to get their spouse to see how harmful withholding sex is to the relationship, and have had some success, but most have not. They either live with the problem, divorce, open the relationship (so you can pursue sex with others), or cheat (which often leads to divorce anyway).


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

" It would be once a week. 
2. She would not do anything and would not resist only.
3. Once I am over, she would turn back and sleep.
4. I would not DISTURB during week days.
5. I would not ask her to do it in variety of ways."

Wow, that's like business contract drawn by the lawyer. 

Outside of sex, how is your relationship? Are you affectionate, do you have anything to talk about, etc? Because based just on that I can feel the ice even here..


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What part of Asia are we talking about? Are you both from the same place? Living there or elsewhere? Does she work? Any children? 

The most disconcerting word above is "disturb"... If she perceives normal couple behavior as disturbing...


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

john117 said:


> What part of Asia are we talking about? Are you both from the same place? Living there or elsewhere? Does she work? Any children?
> 
> The most disconcerting word above is "disturb"... If she perceives normal couple behavior as disturbing...



Yeah I'm failing to see how being asian is relevant to your situation. You haven't really shared background or cultural stigmas.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It can be quite relevant - some parts of Asia have rather defined expectations for women and attitudes as described above may be the result...


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

john117 said:


> It can be quite relevant - some parts of Asia have rather defined expectations for women and attitudes as described above may be the result...


I agree. Just wish OP gave us more info.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> " It would be once a week.
> 2. She would not do anything and would not resist only.
> 3. Once I am over, she would turn back and sleep.
> 4. I would not DISTURB during week days.
> ...


well, this is odd as it appears as contract but I had to talk to her about it after reading a post on same forum. This was the understanding we reached. Since then, I am trying to hold myself till weekend for intimacy. 

Regarding the next part of your point. It is good observation. We both have good chat and discuss too many things. She is welcoming the whole day. She cooks for me, takes care of my day to day needs and takes care of kids. Although she often says that "my subject of discussion is always related to intimacy" but this is not the case. First, I talk about many more things. Secondly, I told her very frankly that if I am fulfilled, I would not discuss or ask for it again. I have shown it many times that when we both are active, I stay cool for couple of days. 

Regarding affection, I find myself a lot devoted and caring. I am always ready to take her for outing or shopping. I never say anything if she wants to eat out or want some things to eat at home. 
That is little more from my end. Plz be critical and suggest further.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

john117 said:


> What part of Asia are we talking about? Are you both from the same place? Living there or elsewhere? Does she work? Any children?
> 
> The most disconcerting word above is "disturb"... If she perceives normal couple behavior as disturbing...



well, we both are from same city of south Asia.. You are right that the expectations are different in our context. Women have choice to work or not to work. I am a wage earner and she is busy in raising the kids. I know she spends tough routine during week days due to cooking and sending kids to school. That is why I agreed to weekend....but that too should be welcoming. 

I am not trying to win situation. I am just trying to voice out about the state of affair to see where I am making mistake.

Few weeks ago, I read on the forum that "I should detach myself from her and pretend to be aloof. That worked for some time. When she saw that I am not taking any interest in talks or in intimacy, she started giving more attention" 

Your critical appraisal is highly appreciated.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

actually i would not do too much vitamin D. Kim Chi, with its probiotics, is the ticket for you! Spicy AND will up the sex life!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Your definition of tough is different than mine for sure. To us, tough was dealing with a preschool age child, having another baby, while working part time and college - graduate school - full time. And guess what, we were in our mid 30's and late 30's, with no support network. And we managed to find time for intimacy.

The lack of participation is what I find more alarming, not the frequency itself.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> Your definition of tough is different than mine for sure. To us, tough was dealing with a preschool age child, having another baby, while working part time and college - graduate school - full time. And guess what, we were in our mid 30's and late 30's, with no support network. And we managed to find time for intimacy.
> 
> The lack of participation is what I find more alarming, not the frequency itself.


I tend to agree with John here. I brought up two kids on my own, held down part time jobs (sometimes as many as four at a time), had great fun with the children (it was always a real privilege rather than a chore) and I still had enough time and energy left to have sex with my boyfriend. That was because I like sex and have always been quite HD and want it on a regular basis. 

It sounds to me like your wife has a pretty easy life compared with a lot of modern women who have to juggle kids, marriage, career, social life, etc. I really think this is a case of disinterest. How does she enjoy it when you do have sex? If she's enjoying it, she should want more and not see it as a chore.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

HER enjoying it could lead to the OP wanting it more often and we can't have that. It's the Universal LD Axiom. 

It's like cycling where the more you cycle the more you want to cycle. But there is a mental block in place...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

you try to be affectionate and show this to her, she is taking care of kids and home, cooking for you - that was your answer to question about intimacy.. 

Cooking and taking care of kids is just taking careof her responsibilities, this is not an expression of intimacy between two of you.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

well, let me add one more thing. I always agree to go to a mall as she loves going to malls (though I hate shopping). Contrary to that, she does not feel like going with me if I am going to a park with kids or going for morning walks.

Some times I have strong feeling that she does not need husband as long as the kids are with her.

Three years back, I left my home town and moved to another leaving my job and fellows just to make her happy (she wanted it). Now being in new town with nobody around except professional colleagues, I want her to value me more and respect my feelings.

I would appreciate if you could suggest any course of action to manage with the issue.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

optamistic said:


> Few weeks ago, I read on the forum that "I should detach myself from her and pretend to be aloof. That worked for some time. When she saw that I am not taking any interest in talks or in intimacy, she started giving more attention"


And then what happened? Did she threaten you somehow (I'll leave and take the kids)? Did you feel bad and relent?

Or is the current compromise of her tolerating sex once per week the increased attention to which you are referring?

ETA: Your response that you are in South Asia does not give us what we need. People are trying to determine whether there are cultural / religious issues at play. Can you provide a nationality? Which religions do you both practice?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

It does look like you are more into her than she is into you. Do you feel she loves you? Or do you feel rejected and not respected? Did you talk with her about your feelings?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

optamistic said:


> well, let me add one more thing. I always agree to go to a mall as she loves going to malls (though I hate shopping). Contrary to that, she does not feel like going with me if I am going to a park with kids or going for morning walks.
> 
> Some times I have strong feeling that she does not need husband as long as the kids are with her.
> 
> ...


I agree with the earlier poster who said she is just not attracted to you in a physical sense. Based on the behaviors you have relayed, you are a necessary evil to her. You are around to have + raise children and pay the bills.

Now, she has gotten you to tolerate a low quality sex life. And, I note that this does not appear to be a temporary arrangement; they way you describe it sounds like she intends to remain this way for as long as she feels like it.

She probably thinks she has you subjugated. You accepted this sexual arrangement, for one. Two, she asked you to move away from your way of life and you said yes. She has no reason to try and make you happy when she does not feel like it and does not feel she will have to endure consequences.

Why did she want to move? I ask because she may have wanted you to be isolated from your friends and such, and thus more dependent on her emotionally. If so, that is classic abuser behavior and you need to remedy the situation now.

The first step here is you need to command respect and consideration - at the same level she demands for herself. She will improve her treatment of you to equal what she gets from you, or you will lower your effort to what she is willing to provide. Be willing to end the marriage and use whatever legal and cultural norms exist to take as much for yourself as possible, and make sure she knows it.

The issue here is her lack of respect for you. Babying her, negotiating with her, supplicating yourself to her will not help no matter how much of them you do. Nothing will change until she considers your sensibilities equally as important as her own. And for that to happen, you must demand it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

She's not into sex in general, not just into sex with him... Big difference. That's where cultures come into play. Depending on whose numbers you look at sexual activities frequency does depend on country / region...


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

john117 said:


> She's not into sex in general, not just into sex with him... Big difference. That's where cultures come into play. Depending on whose numbers you look at sexual activities frequency does depend on country / region...


True. There was a few studies done and know some asian countries have some of the less frequent sex in the world. I'm a bit frustrated though. The OP mentioned he was asian so it was important for us to know that. But then his vague about his background. What can we do with that?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My brother in law spent a few months in Thailand and he reported things there were, ehem, good . Then he moved to the Philippines and drought. 

But personal experiences dating and courting from a few different nations there suggest that they do have a lower drive but if you get an outlier, lucky you. Otherwise...


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

DTO said:


> And then what happened? Did she threaten you somehow (I'll leave and take the kids)? Did you feel bad and relent?
> 
> Or is the current compromise of her tolerating sex once per week the increased attention to which you are referring?
> 
> ETA: Your response that you are in South Asia does not give us what we need. People are trying to determine whether there are cultural / religious issues at play. Can you provide a nationality? Which religions do you both practice?


We are from Indian origin. For the last couple of years, we moved to gulf region. Our culture treats women with great respect and our family system is also very strong. In our context, second marriage is considered as a taboo. Man is wage earner and women take care of home and kids. Sex out of marriage bond is also not acceptable. Divorce is also considered as very odd act. This is the context in which we live.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> Do you _really_ think it's a good idea for a husband to use his children or money to force his wife to have sex with him? Scare tactics to control a wife's behavior is akin to spousal abuse. OP never made mention that she was a bad mother or was abusing her SAHM status.
> 
> Let's keep things in perspective here and stick with the facts. OP's issue is the quality and quantity of the sex in his marriage.
> 
> OP, some people here have had successes after reading and following the advice in the MMSLP and NMNNG books. Have you had a chance to read those books yourself?


I am around 44 working as an educator in higher education so I cannot afford to do any bargain (kids of finance). First of all, she is a very good mother. Secondly, my kids are attached with both of us. My limiting the desire to once per week is for the same reason. 

And no I have not read any such book. Would love to read.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

It sounds to me that in your culture because your wife never has to worry about losing you, you have no leverage and she can deprioritize you. Also because your culture holds mothers to a such a high regard and she seems to be a great mother, she has her status in the marriage. I would also like to add that when practicing such sexual restraint a lot of women would probably never have the chance to embrace or explore their sexuality and probably only view sex as a duty of the marriage. 

So she is getting everything she wants out of the marriage and she can do so without having sex with you. Does she seem to enjoy it when you guys have it? What was the best sex you guys ever had? What were the circumstances? What is the most aroused you have ever seen her?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Duplicate post


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Lila said:


> Do you _really_ think it's a good idea for a husband to use his children or money to force his wife to have sex with him? Scare tactics to control a wife's behavior is akin to spousal abuse. OP never made mention that she was a bad mother or was abusing her SAHM status.
> 
> Let's keep things in perspective here and stick with the facts. OP's issue is the quality and quantity of the sex in his marriage.
> 
> OP, some people here have had successes after reading and following the advice in the MMSLP and NMNNG books. Have you had a chance to read those books yourself?


First of all, I spoke directly and bluntly because I can tell the OP is a non-native English speaker (even before he said he was from South Asia). I didn't want to use the colloquialisms we toss around here to soften things up because I did not want the message to get lost.

That being said, no the point is not to compel her to have sex with him. The point is to compel her to work on her attitude so that she can come to the marriage bed with the love and regard (if not outright sex drive) necessary to have a good sex life. Said differently, it is an effort to address the root cause (her poor attitude) and not just the symptom (the bad sex life). And she think she has him whipped - he must make her understand that he is willing to end the marriage.

Did you read the list of demands she placed on his sex life? Once a week she will allow him to use her body to orgasm. Do not ask her to be active. Do not expect her to pay attention to him after he's "done". Do not bother her more than once per week. And to think that he had to negotiate up to this frankly pathetic sex life! This woman thinks she is in firm control and does not have to bother with his needs. She needs to know otherwise. Right now she is not willing to work on herself, and that makes this 100% her fault. Nothing he does will help until her attitude changes.

I don't see how telling her the marriage is on the line is abusive. When people get divorced, they typically try to minimize their losses. I fought hard for as much assets and custody time as I could get, and so did my ex. That is divorce reality - stating he is not going to slink away because he cannot stand her (should it come to that) is merely being transparent. A threat would be an illegal or dishonest activity. If he were to say "have more sex or I will tell everyone I checked up on you and found you with another man", that would be a threat. See the difference?

You chided me with "let's keep things in perspective". Whose perspective are we talking about (sounds like yours, honestly)? You don't know that she is not abusing her SAHM status. The OP said mothers are revered and divorce is very rare - it seems likely these societal factors are empowering her to behave in this manner. The fact that she is a good mother does not really come into play here because we are discussing her poor performance as a wife. Being a good mother does not offset that if the OP is not having his needs met.

FWIW, I do agree in general that men need to up their game. But, I've seen lots of these stories, and this woman is a rare breed. He needs to make a strong statement up front that this is unacceptable and she must do better. The lack of respect she has for the OP exudes from his posts. The poor quantity and quality of sex is merely a symptom of that apparent lack of respect.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

john117 said:


> My personal suggestion. Do not accept starfish sex. Either the two of you work it out or don't bother.


Absolutely true - good thing you mentioned it because I forgot.

To the original poster: accepting that sex not only makes you feel bad, but it lets her feel good about herself as a wife. Also, if there comes another aspect in which her and you disagree, she will think she can bully you into doing what she wants.

Your biggest problem right now is lack of respect from her. That is either a separate problem from her lack of interest in sex, or it is a huge contributor to the sexual problem. Either way, you must first get her to see you as an individual with needs equally important to her own.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> I disagree that OP's situation is 100% his wife's fault. In actuality, this is probably more OP's fault than his wife's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well. I think this verdict of 100% FAULT is quite early and based on chunks provided by me. First let me clarify that I am not here to prove about right or wrong. 
Why I agreed to an agreement bcz often I could not do it and she was very upset that I woke her up. That made me angry the whole day. So I wanted it as per her schedule so that she would not have any excuses.
Secondly, after this, she never refused on week ends. BUT I had to supress myself during week days if I want to have it.

thirdly, saying NO to her terms means that I will have to avoid sex at all. Now in our culture, relations out of marriage bonds are not acceptable. I know that she hardly needs it. 

Finally, I asked indirectly from some of my colleagues (males) and most of them said that they have it at weekends or after two weeks. I thought this would be normal having it once a week so I asked her how she wants and that led to this unwritten agreement.

Let me tell you that I wish to analyze this situation based on opinion of ppl like you or all those who replied. 

It is not only quality and quantity of sex. It is overall treatment. Refusing to go with me to the place of my choice OR leaving the kids on me if I am taking them to some mall's play area are quite depressing for me.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

What I have extracted from different posts is that:

1. high frequency of sex desire is not a problem at all ( I used to think before)

2. there is a large number of Ld man and woman.

3. My case is not unique but many have similar isssues.

4. Respect is earned, true but in the last ten years, I have done all that may make her happy. I gave her as much love and care as I could just bcz I believed it would make our relations great. BUT this did not happen.
5. As mentioned before, I showed her some strong displeasure and she started giving me more time. BUT I co uld not sustain that attitude for long. DURING THAT PHASE, I told myself that if she does this in response to my love and care, we both would be happy.

6. LASTLY, divorce in our context is not costly at all. You just utter words of divorce BUT POST DIVORCE life is like a hel in our context. 

plz respnd


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You have far less to lose in a divorce than she does. From your last paragraph I'm getting the idea you're likely not Hindus so apologies in advance if I messed up.

Why would it be he!!? Financially? Family wise? Custody wise? What would the future look like for you and her?

Get those answers and work from there.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Lila said:


> Here are some questions for you:
> 
> 1) What was your sexual relationship like when you first got married?
> 2) When you do have sex, do you try to make it enjoyable to her? Does she orgasm?
> 3) What would make you happy in your relationship?





FalconKing said:


> Does she seem to enjoy it when you guys have it? What was the best sex you guys ever had? What were the circumstances? What is the most aroused you have ever seen her?


Come on OP! We are trying to help you!

These are the type of posts you need to respond to.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

john117 said:


> You have far less to lose in a divorce than she does. From your last paragraph I'm getting the idea you're likely not Hindus so apologies in advance if I messed up.
> 
> Why would it be he!!? Financially? Family wise? Custody wise? What would the future look like for you and her?
> 
> Get those answers and work from there.


Divorce would lead to ruin of family. No one would understand why bcz it appears 'all is well". I cant take kids just bcz the mother who loves them more than me did not come up to my desires. I have told her couple of times to take the kids and return to home country. That way, I would earn and send to family. Divorce would make life of both miserable in front of all other family members.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Lila I agree with what you said but I do think when you agree to marry somebody there should be a level of respect already in place. Or maybe you were speaking in the general sense?

Also, I think OP that you and your wife probably didn't ask the tough questions before you got married. I think you both felt you had your duties to do but what about questions regarding sex frequency, romance, fantasy...?
Culturally, are these type of things discussed before hand or are they not given much significance?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

OP, if you're going to buy into your cultural conditioning and are unwilling to defy it for the sake of future sucess and happiness, there isn't much I can suggest to help you. You may just have to suffer for the sake of duty and appearances. I would not.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

optamistic said:


> It is not only quality and quantity of sex. It is overall treatment. Refusing to go with me to the place of my choice OR leaving the kids on me if I am taking them to some mall's play area are quite depressing for me.


Ah, I apologize I missed this part. Ok. How does your wife's mother treat your father in law? 

Have you ever asked her why does she feel justified to treat you the way she does? It sounds like you wife probably has the mindset of what a husband can do for her but never really thought about what she can do for a husband. At least in the sense of romance. I am not saying she is a bad person. But she might not correlate dating and courting someone while being married.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> For the record, I don't agree with placing blame either. My post was in response to someone else who was placing 100% of the blame of your situation on you wife. In reality, it's no one's fault really. It's just that you are not happy in your current situation and she doesn't really care for you enough to change status quo.
> 
> Here are some questions for you:
> 
> ...


well, let me try to answer them though it is hard.

1. my sexual relation was similar since beginning. Though she did not resist even if I did daily but participation in the first few month was some what active but gradually it became a one way traffic.
2. I try to do my best to make it a fun by using different ways. Beginning from appetizer and leading to main meal. However, I dont recall except very few times when she initiated. AND yes, she does but that is only when she wants it. AND that is only once a month and not more. I offer her to prolong if she wants to.. but she prefers once a month for her and asks me to finish as and when I want.

3. I think active participation in sex even on weekly is no prob bcz a quality sex may keep me calm for as long as a week. Secondly, respect to my wishes the way I do for her. Going out with me to parks when I go with kids. Take interest in my achievements which I receive very often. I dont think it is too much to ask for.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> Ah, I apologize I missed this part. Ok. How does your wife's mother treat your father in law?
> 
> Have you ever asked her why does she feel justified to treat you the way she does? It sounds like you wife probably has the mindset of what a husband can do for her but never really thought about what she can do for a husband. At least in the sense of romance. I am not saying she is a bad person. But she might not correlate dating and courting someone while being married.


A good observation.... My mother in law does a little similar. When he returns home from office, he makes tea for all (if we are also there. else for two to them) but she goes with him to most of the places........or probably, she also does not go to places she does not like.
Justification...well, she says that she would get tired if she goes to park with kids BUT surprisingly, she does not get tired even I take her to a shopping mall.
Lastly, I think she feels that she is not refusing me when it is off the next day so that is ok. She does not participate is something which may not be deliberate so she thinks that I can reach to my pleasure even if she were a pillow.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And then a couple years later she will find all kinds of reasons to go once in two weeks then once a month and you will be left wondering why you did not bail out earlier. 

It's not fun to fight culture but there's no point staying together to wait for the inevitable.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

optamistic said:


> A good observation.... My mother in law does a little similar. When he returns home from office, he makes tea for all (if we are also there. else for two to them) but she goes with him to most of the places........or probably, she also does not go to places she does not like.
> 
> Justification...well, she says that she would get tired if she goes to park with kids BUT surprisingly, she does not get tired even I take her to a shopping mall.
> 
> Lastly, I think she feels that she is not refusing me when it is off the next day so that is ok. She does not participate is something which may not be deliberate so she thinks that I can reach to my pleasure even if she were a pillow.



Have you ever asked her does she have a passionate love for you? Have you ever just flat out told her you don't feel desired and appreciated by her?

Before you guys married was your wife living with her parents? Has she ever been on her own?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

whatever her greatest emotional need is, give it to her only one day a week. affection? she will get hugs once a week. domestic support? you will help with the dishes and clean the house once a week. quality time? you will spend time with her once a week. 

and she better not DISTURB you on week days. 

she will have to actually open up to you and let you know how to turn her on or she will stop getting such a comfortable life. 
but if not, at least you two will be evenly matched.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

DTO said:


> Your biggest problem right now is lack of respect from her. That is either a separate problem from her lack of interest in sex, or it is a huge contributor to the sexual problem. Either way, you must first get her to see you as an individual with needs equally important to her own.


I have tried it many times and talked with clarity but of little help. There is no discussion or talk over such issues in our culture before maariage. So from the beginning years, I always thought this is the routine or normal that man is active and wife stays passive. Man does most of the play and woman stays at receiving end. To be honest, I also used to to think that this frequecy of once a week is normal and my wanting for more is more than normal. 

Do you think being indifferent would help in my case?????


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

No - women from cultures like that would LOVE receiving little attention as long as their practical needs are met...


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> whatever her greatest emotionalr need is, give it to her only one day a week. affection? she will get hugs once a week. domestic support? you will help with the dishes and clean the house once a week. quality time? you will spend time with her once a week.
> 
> and she better not DISTURB you on week days. .


Well, here comes the issue of kids. What ever tough decision I may take, I think of the kids. Going out with her once a week, she would not mind. House hold help is more bcz of kids. Most of her time is devoted to kids. Even some time back, she started going to bedroom to sleep for an hour at the time of my arrival from office.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Jeeze, from your description your wife is a starfish. I'm going to assume that this is cultural in nature. Perhaps some therapy both individual and together?


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

Just to shre with you a recent fight between us. vacation of mine and kids starting. I suggested to visit a neighboring country by car. She resisted saying no bcz some of my relatives live there. She proposed another neighboring country which is very expensive these days due to vacations. I told her this but her argument was that when we spend money on our visit to home country, why cant we spend here (by the way, there is no match. Former is four time more expensive). I even told her that we could go to her desired place during off season taking special leave but she insisted that she would not favor leave of the kids. This might also reflect the kind of relation we have. I am not at good terms with her these days.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

She sounds like a spoiled, selfish brat.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

optamistic said:


> Well, here comes the issue of kids. What ever tough decision I may take, I think of the kids. Going out with her once a week, she would not mind. House hold help is more bcz of kids. Most of her time is devoted to kids. Even some time back, she started going to bedroom to sleep for an hour at the time of my arrival from office.


there is something that you provide that she would rather not live without. what keeps her married to you? are you just a paycheck?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

CantePe said:


> Jeeze, from your description your wife is a starfish. I'm going to assume that this is cultural in nature. Perhaps some therapy both individual and together?



If you're living in the Gulf, good luck with that.

You can therapy out a lot of things but culture is not one of them, generally speaking.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

OP, I don't think you really know your wife as a person and I don't think you really have much interest in that. I just think you want her to fulfill your desires. I am trying ask you questions about her and what kind of person she is but you don't really prefer to respond to those type of posts. I don't think those are things you find relevant. 

I think perhaps your wife was raised in a very conservative environment where she was in a sense, taken care of. Then she became your wife. So she was her parents responsibility and then yours. So I don't think you wife has ever had a true sense of independence. I think her selfishness in the marriage gives her a sense of control and power over her life. And because of culturally constructs, I don't think you ever truly took the time to engage her and learn her as a person. I don't think you and your wife are emotionally vulnerable to each other. Also, I think the reason why your wife doesn't want to go to the park with you and the kids is because she just wants time to herself. And I understand why she doesn't want to vacation to meet your family. Although, you sound very practical and responsible I don't think you understand your wife's passions and emotions. Your wife doesn't want to go see your family. That's not a vacation for her. There will be formalities and her having to be self conscious of her actions and how your family will receive her actions. That's not a vacation for her. Your wife wants to go somewhere and not have to worry about all of that. She wants to truly relax and enjoy herself without worrying about being judged. You only recognize your wife as a mother and wife to you. So she has to find independence in those roles somehow. Also, you mentioned before that it's usually the men who pursue the females sexually. So a sexually aggressive woman is frowned upon and your wife probably feels as though sex is something men want since they pursue. 

If I tell you that your wife wants to be recognized as an individual and doesn't always want to be burdened with "duties", I don't think you will catch my drift.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> OP, I don't think you really know your wife as a person and I don't think you really have much interest in that. I just think you want her to fulfill your desires. I am trying ask you questions about her and what kind of person she is but you don't really prefer to respond to those type of posts. I don't think those are things you find relevant.
> 
> I think perhaps your wife was raised in a very conservative environment where she was in a sense, taken care of. Then she became your wife. So she was her parents responsibility and then yours. So I don't think you wife has ever had a true sense of independence. I think her selfishness in the marriage gives her a sense of control and power over her life. And because of culturally constructs, I don't think you ever truly took the time to engage her and learn her as a person. I don't think you and your wife are emotionally vulnerable to each other. Also, I think the reason why your wife doesn't want to go to the park with you and the kids is because she just wants time to herself. And I understand why she doesn't want to vacation to meet your family. Although, you sound very practical and responsible I don't think you understand your wife's passions and emotions. *Your wife doesn't want to go see your family. That's not a vacation for her. There will be formalities and her having to be self conscious of her actions and how your family will receive her actions. That's not a vacation for her*. Your wife wants to go somewhere and not have to worry about all of that. She wants to truly relax and enjoy herself without worrying about being judged. You only recognize your wife as a mother and wife to you. So she has to find independence in those roles somehow. Also, you mentioned before that it's usually the men who pursue the females sexually. So a sexually aggressive woman is frowned upon and your wife probably feels as though sex is something men want since they pursue.
> 
> If I tell you that your wife wants to be recognized as an individual and doesn't always want to be burdened with "duties", I don't think you will catch my drift.


Excellent points.

And the bolded part---yeah, a vacation with in-laws is NOT a vacation.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> OP, I don't think you really know your wife as a person and I don't think you really have much interest in that. I just think you want her to fulfill your desires. I am trying ask you questions about her and what kind of person she is but you don't really prefer to respond to those type of posts. I don't think those are things you find relevant.
> 
> .


falcon, i tried responding to all the questions asked by many members and if I skipped some of yours, that does not mean I find them irrelevant. This is not at all true that I want her to fulfill my desires only. I wrote in one of my posts that once I detached myself and limit myself to sex only, she started paying more attention to me. That time, I told myself that what if she could talk to me and treats me the same way when I find ways to make her happy. Why is it that one has to show attitude just to get attention of other.


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> OP,
> 
> I think perhaps your wife was raised in a very conservative environment where she was in a sense, taken care of. Then she became your wife. So she was her parents responsibility and then yours. So I don't think you wife has ever had a true sense of independence. I think her selfishness in the marriage gives her a sense of control and power over her life. And because of culturally constructs, I don't think you ever truly took the time to engage her and learn her as a person. I don't think you and your wife are emotionally vulnerable to each other. Also, I think the reason why your wife doesn't want to go to the park with you and the kids is because she just wants time to herself. And I understand why she doesn't want to vacation to meet your family. Although, you sound very practical and responsible I don't think you understand your wife's passions and emotions. Your wife doesn't want to go see your family. That's not a vacation for her. There will be formalities and her having to be self conscious of her actions and how your family will receive her actions. That's not a vacation for her. Your wife wants to go somewhere and not have to worry about all of that. She wants to truly relax and enjoy herself without worrying about being judged. You only recognize your wife as a mother and wife to you. So she has to find independence in those roles somehow. Also, you mentioned before that it's usually the men who pursue the females sexually. So a sexually aggressive woman is frowned upon and your wife probably feels as though sex is something men want since they pursue.
> 
> .


Well, a time of her own. Fine, let me quote one event. We went to another country and stayed at a home of a relative. I suggested to go for a safari (onlly two of us) as kids were not allowed. She refused saying that she would not go anywhere without kids.
Secondly, vacations with inlaws is not the case as well bcz when we go our home country, she stays with her parents and I stay at mine. Whenever we have to go for something, I pick her up.

Vacation this time I suggested to same country where we have a relatives who dont have direct for anything. I suggested that country bcz the other options were either booked or were too expensive. I agreed to visit to other place after two months when my kid has off from school (but it is not common vacations for all). As far as understanding is concerned, I do whatever is possible to make her happy. I take her to shopping and stay there as long as she wants. I try to bring anything that she wants to. When we go out, the kids are often at home." My refusing for a new country was bcz of logistics only. Having done all this, if you hear at the end of the day that x y or z is going there or doing that, what would you say???? 

I am also a human being with emotions, feeling and wish for pleasure. She should understand that if I do my best to make her happy, she can atleast dress well, welcome me on my return and shows happiness that I am home.

Anyway, friends I told earlier as well that I am trying to sort out where I am doing wrong and where I can improve further. I have noted many good points from different members. From every post, I try to extract some thing......Thank you. If you think falcon's suggestions are good enough, I would revisit my behaviour and see if it brings some changes.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

optamistic said:


> Well, a time of her own. Fine, let me quote one event. We went to another country and stayed at a home of a relative. I suggested to go for a safari (onlly two of us) as kids were not allowed. She refused saying that she would not go anywhere without kids.
> Secondly, vacations with inlaws is not the case as well bcz when we go our home country, she stays with her parents and I stay at mine. Whenever we have to go for something, I pick her up.


Is this a custom for the wife to stay at her family's place and the husband stay at his? It sounds like sometimes your wife wants a break from you. And she may not always enjoy being around you. 



> Vacation this time I suggested to same country where we have a relatives who dont have direct for anything. I suggested that country bcz the other options were either booked or were too expensive. I agreed to visit to other place after two months when my kid has off from school (but it is not common vacations for all). As far as understanding is concerned, I do whatever is possible to make her happy. I take her to shopping and stay there as long as she wants. I try to bring anything that she wants to. When we go out, the kids are often at home." My refusing for a new country was bcz of logistics only. Having done all this, if you hear at the end of the day that x y or z is going there or doing that, what would you say????


Let me say this, you sound like a good practical man. I don't think you purposefully doing anything to ignore your wife needs. You just don't know how to connect with her. Buying her things and being with her while she shops are very good things but they offer no emotional connection. There is a book called the 5 Love Languages. Maybe somebody already mentioned it. You need to find out how your wife wants to be loved. His and Her Needs is good as well. They give you examples of marriage problems similar to your own and couples overcoming them. 



> I am also a human being with emotions, feeling and wish for pleasure. She should understand that if I do my best to make her happy, she can atleast dress well, welcome me on my return and shows happiness that I am home.


I understand your frustration and you have every right to feel the way you do. But sometimes we exhaust our efforts doing things but it's not what that person wants or needs so our efforts can at times be futile. I don't feel you and your wife have a very strong emotional connection. 



> Anyway, friends I told earlier as well that I am trying to sort out where I am doing wrong and where I can improve further. I have noted many good points from different members. From every post, I try to extract some thing......Thank you. If you think falcon's suggestions are good enough, I would revisit my behaviour and see if it brings some changes.


I know you mentioned in a previous post that whenever you detach she shows you more attention. You are destabilizing the relationship and putting your wife into a position where she has to do maintenance. But once she feels like it's fixed, she will resort back to neglecting you. If she is attentive at times, maybe you could use those times to ask her questions about the relationship? 

Are you a very affectionate person? Do you ever grab her and hold her and do so without the expectation of sex? Do you and your wife generally make a lot of eye contact when communicating? Has she ever shared her dreams and passions with you? Have you ever asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up, besides a mother or wife?


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## optamistic (Jun 5, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> Is this a custom for the wife to stay at her family's place and the husband stay at his? It sounds like sometimes your wife wants a break from you. And she may not always enjoy being around you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is not a custom but we agreed to this bcz she did not want to be with inlaws. She demanded me to stay with her and I stayed a couple of nights as well. BUT stayed at my own home as well just to give her a break. She used to call me and miss me when I am not around. This is another thing that I keep asking that when I am away, she keeps aksing when I would return and when I am around, I am nobody.

I am very affectionate and have shown my love very often without the least desire for sex. I had many moments of intimacy but did not find her responsive that much. She likes that but does not respond or does not behave in similar way. 

I will try to search that book you mentioned.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

The more you post the more I feel like your relationship can be worked through. That's good. 

The bad: Well it still sucks for you now. 

You guys could really benefit from counseling. At least she at times does long for you, even though you are getting mixed signals.


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