# the big deal about privacy!



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

What's so big about it???
I still don't understand those who want 100% privacy as if they are hiding something.
I have never had a problem giving out my email/FB password to my partner or let him read my text messages. 
Especially, if I was married..
To me, the only privacy allowed is when you're using the toilet, when masturbating or when taking a shower. [though, it depends about this one. The idea of inviting the partner over in the shower turns me on. I have done it once with my ex. 
I'd do it everyday with my husband. ]

I don't think I'd care about privacy in my marriage and I'm hoping my future husband feels the same.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You know I am on the same page in this Lovelygirl... Did you ever see my thread >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...parency-what-means-our-marraige-what-you.html

It is a little long winded.. I like to get to the heart of the matter....I feel very strongly about this issue...It'd be one of my 1st 3 dealbreakers in a relationship with a man. And it has nothing ever so to do with being controlling*.....it IS the willingness of the HEART*, it is an attitude we have come to learn -for whatever reason.....when you get done to it.

I feel many have been taught personal privacy is to be praised in relationships, and sometimes.... depending on the issues with a significant other, it may even be necessary to some degree...if they have screaming insecurities.....if they will use what one has shared against them in future arguments/fights.... this is very very unfortunate...this causes us to close up even more so - which makes sense. 

Because of so very very much hurt & pain we carry from previous relationships.... I believe it becomes a learned pattern - to protect ourselves... we feel "it is nobody's business" for so many years of our lives.... 

Then we might meet Mr or Mrs Right in our late 20's or so....but since we are so conditioned to this "lifestyle" of not openly /vulnerably sharing it all.. that it is hard to break free from, it is somehow going against our nature, it is uncomfortable. A vulnerable place others cringe to go. 

As abiding TRUST slowly builds in any relationship, this SHOULD be something that will flow easier and easier.


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## *Dean* (Nov 23, 2011)

I think the magic word here is TRUST.

My view on privacy is the same as yours but..........

I have no problem giving my wife passwords to everything.
I am hiding nothing but I also expect her to have trust in me.
It's ok for her to spot check from time to time. Verify I'm doing the right thing.

But I would have a big problem with her if she was logging on every day in 
my accounts, reading everything, checking on me.

That isn't trust......I didn't do anything for her not to trust me.
I couldn't be with someone that couldn't develop trust.
Trust but verify is ok with me, just not everyday.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I both have each others passwords for everything. Even our kids have access to our passwords.

I never say anything negative about my husband, ever. I don't talk to other men privately. We fully trust each other. I have no idea if he goes through my things or not. I don't have anything to hide and he doesn't either.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Dean* is so right....At the end of the day...It IS all about *TRUST*...feeling that inward "peace" & free flowing connection between the 2 of you. 

I think we can all SENSE.... if we are paying close enough attention...when something is off....something has changed, a seed of division has sprung....a spouse holding back. But when you feel the exuberance of your spouse's love upon you daily...this speaks alone...trust is alive & well. 

Me & mine seriously never check anything......it is not in our experience to ever feel that "need"...but we easily can. We are both so forthcoming about our day with each other ... the more JUICY it is -- that would be on the top of the list to share! These are the most entertaining conversations we have .... that is just how we are. I love it when he tells me about the guys at work, some of the crazy stuff they talk about. I probably know more secrets about them than some of their wives. (but it all stays between us). 

My husband doesn't even care to read my threads on here, da gone him!  

Back in the day, I might have checked his desktop on a handful of occasions looking for PlayBoy bunnies he downloaded, I knew this was a temptation for him, he never really hid it...or tried to cover his tracks. He is more computer savy than me -since he went to school for it- so he could have. 

I never even looked at that as anything all that horrific, I'd get on my little rants jumping on him for being a Dirty Old Man. That was the most my husband ever hid from me...back then I was a bit too religious, not grasping the whole male lure to looking upon a little variety-his was so tame anyway! (I understand not all women would agree -but that's fine).... Now he just does it when I am in the room with him.... its all good. 

I think all I ever hid from him in our entire existence together was...masterbating while he was sleeping. That had to be the most embarrassing subject under the sun (to me)...way too taboo!! But see, even that was a huge mistake, cause we missed each other! Of course he never asked! We both should have talked more about SEX, damn it. 

Also most men need some CAVE time, this is just normal...learn all about in that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" book.




> *Runs like Dog said*: This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain


 I am very hallmarkcardish accually... I know it all sounds sappy and I am assuming your post was to ImInLoveWithMyhubby....

I love & enjoy sharing the good, the bad ...and also the ugly. I will admit there has been BAD...I am not a bowl of roses every day...but close! 

I am very blessed to find a man who is pretty Hallmarkcardish himself .


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> I think the magic word here is TRUST.
> 
> My view on privacy is the same as yours but..........
> 
> ...


I agree. Trust is the key word. 
And I'm all for "Trust but verify" . 
Just because I want you to give me your password doesn't mean I don't trust you but if you don't have a problem with it then you should give it to me right away. 
*I might never check your email ever*!!!! But the fact that you were comfortable enough to give me your password is what matters to me. 
The chances of me checking out your email after you shared your pass are less than when you don't want to give out your pass. That would make me doubt.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> I agree. Trust is the key word.
> And I'm all for "Trust but verify" .
> Just because I want you to give me your password doesn't mean I don't trust you but if you don't have a problem with it then you should give it to me right away.
> *I might never check your email ever*!!!! But the fact that you were comfortable enough to give me your password is what matters to me.
> The chances of me checking out your email after you shared your pass are less than when you don't want to give out your pass. That would make me doubt.


right, its their willingness that speaks volumes, whether you choose to use it or not.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> What's so big about it???
> I still don't understand those who want 100% privacy as if they are hiding something.
> I have never had a problem giving out my email/FB password to my partner or let him read my text messages.
> Especially, if I was married..
> ...


In light of recent events in my life, you are absolutely right that 100% privacy is for those who are attempting to hide something. 2 weeks ago, H got a new phone, and he was acting a little funny with it, threatening to PW it. He didn't i the end. But as it turns out, 2 weeks after this, I catch him using it to view porn. So he definitely was trying to hide that little tid bit...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain.


Like what exactly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain.


Give me one specific example, outside of surprise planning. Name one thing that a married person should need "privacy" on that isn't an indication of something unhealthy. I've been thinking about it for months and still haven't come up with anything, outside of aforementioned surprise planning.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

COguy said:


> Give me one specific example, outside of surprise planning. Name one thing that a married person should need "privacy" on that isn't an indication of something unhealthy. I've been thinking about it for months and still haven't come up with anything, outside of aforementioned surprise planning.


My friends and family certainly would NOT appreciate me sharing their emails with their personal issues in them. They are in my inbox - long, late night written emails about personal subjects - and it would be outrageous to me to simply hand those over to someone they did not confide in. 

For example, one of my friends loves his alcoholic husband, but struggles. He does not share his travails of living with an alcoholic for 20 years to anyone but me and his sister. Not fair to just expose him like that to a third party without his permission.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I never have privacy. lol. I don't care either.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

norajane said:


> My friends and family certainly would NOT appreciate me sharing their emails with their personal issues in them. They are in my inbox - long, late night written emails about personal subjects - and it would be outrageous to me to simply hand those over to someone they did not confide in.


You can kindly ask your partner to not read those emails then and to respect the privacy in it. 
Yet again, this is not a valid excuse of why you should not give out your password if your partner respects this specific wish of yours.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> You can kindly ask your partner to not read those emails then and to respect the privacy in it.
> Yet again, this is not a valid excuse of why you should not give out your password if your partner respects this specific wish of yours.


Won't work. Sure you can ask, but if he's snoopy-mcsnooperson, he will absolutely want to read those emails the most, because he'll suspect those people are the ones I would be confiding in about my suspected awesome new lover he's snooping to find out that I have. 

Once you open the bag, the cat is out. I would simply delete everything if I knew he felt free to snoop.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Like what exactly?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like any sort of phone call with their friends, gossip, exactly what they spent on the 19th hole, etc etc. He/she is your spouse not your mother or your priest.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Like any sort of phone call with their friends, gossip, exactly what they spent on the 19th hole, etc etc. He/she is your spouse not your mother or your priest.


To each their own.

None of that type of stuff is stuff I care to keep from my wife.
It seems pretty trivial but then again my wife doesn`t ***** at me about spending or gossip or really much at all.

I understand your point if coming from someone with an SO who was always up their ass about what they`re spending where they are and who they`re talking to.

But then the troubles are deeper than transparency.

Niether my mother nor my priest had any right to transparency from me.
My wife trumps all.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

norajane said:


> My friends and family certainly would NOT appreciate me sharing their emails with their personal issues in them. They are in my inbox - long, late night written emails about personal subjects - and it would be outrageous to me to simply hand those over to someone they did not confide in.
> 
> For example, one of my friends loves his alcoholic husband, but struggles. He does not share his travails of living with an alcoholic for 20 years to anyone but me and his sister. Not fair to just expose him like that to a third party without his permission.


It's not really a third party, it's your spouse. It's pretty commonly understood if you tell someone, their spouse is going to know. If you think permission is needed, then ask for it. 

Any spouse of mine wouldn't find out something like that through reading my email. I can't imagine keeping that from my partner. I would want to share with them, because I would share everything. I would want their counsel to make sure that my counsel to my friend is good. Plus, talking about it with my spouse would help me process it.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

For Carol and I there is no such thing as "personal privacy". In fact, we would both feel that any "privacy" we had was eating into what might have been intimacy instead.

Carol and I trust each other. Neither of us expends any effort worrying about some nefarious plot the other might be engaged in. It just doesn't come up. So that ends up meaning that we both have complete access to everything that is going on in both lives and, for the most part, neither of us cares about that access.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

tacoma said:


> To each their own.
> 
> None of that type of stuff is stuff I care to keep from my wife.
> It seems pretty trivial but then again my wife doesn`t ***** at me about spending or gossip or really much at all.
> ...


Do you feel a need to footnote every single second of your life? I don't.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Do you feel a need to footnote every single second of your life? I don't.


No but transparency doesn`t demand anything from me.

I don`t have to "Footnote" anything.

I`ve never been questioned about pretty much anything unless she`s had a valid reason to do so.

My wife has never looked at the credit card bill and asked why I spent $50.00 on lunch last Tuesday.

She`s never required that I "Foot Note" anything.

That`s why I made an exception for those with SO`s that are like that.
I can see how that would get tiresome BUT those tiresome *****y spouses may very well be that way because they wonder why you`re keeping perfectly innocent info from them on a regular basis.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Hank567 said:


> It's not really a third party, it's your spouse. It's pretty commonly understood if you tell someone, their spouse is going to know. If you think permission is needed, then ask for it.
> 
> Any spouse of mine wouldn't find out something like that through reading my email. I can't imagine keeping that from my partner. I would want to share with them, because I would share everything. I would want their counsel to make sure that my counsel to my friend is good. Plus, talking about it with my spouse would help me process it.


I just don't see it that way. He IS a third party to them. Otherwise, they would be talking with him about it.

It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

norajane said:


> I just don't see it that way.
> 
> It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.


Technically it's not your business either, but they share it with you anyway because some people need to tell their business to others.

I don't have any privacy. And like that girl, I don't care.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

norajane said:


> I just don't see it that way. He IS a third party to them. Otherwise, they would be talking with him about it.
> 
> It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.


I never confide anything to a married person if I don`t want their spouse to know about it.

However, I`m a hard core private person and really confide nothing to anyone other than my wife anyway.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

norajane said:


> I just don't see it that way. He IS a third party to them. Otherwise, they would be talking with him about it.
> 
> It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.



Personal space is necessary, but this sounds a little harsh. I wouldn't care about a spouse's friend's vaginal issues, but I would care that my spouse was so fierce about me not knowing.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I never confide anything to a married person if I don`t want their spouse to know about it.
> 
> However, I`m a hard core private person and really confide nothing to anyone other than my wife anyway.


Me too. On both counts.

My husband is the same way. Whatever is shared with us, stays within our relationship. We can't help what others tell us, and so we have shared info with each other that we've gotten from elsewhere. It goes no further than the two of us. Why would it?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Hank567 said:


> It's not really a third party, it's your spouse. It's pretty commonly understood if you tell someone, their spouse is going to know. If you think permission is needed, then ask for it.
> 
> Any spouse of mine wouldn't find out something like that through reading my email. I can't imagine keeping that from my partner. I would want to share with them, because I would share everything. I would want their counsel to make sure that my counsel to my friend is good. Plus, talking about it with my spouse would help me process it.


We just had a conversation about this the other week. Wife was keeping "secrets" from me about personal stuff. I told her, if you really don't feel right about telling me, then tell your friends before they tell you "not to tell anyone" that you don't keep secrets from your husband. If they still have a problem with it, considering I am trustworthy and would never say anything to anyone, then don't get involved.

It's general code that if you tell someone something, they will tell their spouse.

As a spouse, there's no way to tell if someone's secret is a real secret or a dirty secret, so in my experience it's best not to play that game. Yeah I'm jaded because I got burned like that, but if you have this kind of openness before something happens, you probably won't ever need it.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

tacoma said:


> No but transparency doesn`t demand anything from me.
> 
> I don`t have to "Footnote" anything.
> 
> ...


So you've answered your own question.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

COguy said:


> It's general code that if you tell someone something, they will tell their spouse.


:iagree: In my opinion, everyone should assume this. 

This is such a simply concept to me... Me & my husband are ONE... He shares any conversations he has had with me (if he finds them interesting enough -of course not ALL -how utterly boring!) .... and I do the same. I will even outright tell my GF's, that I share everything with my husband. They all know us both very well anyhow. 

If you have a trustworthy spouse who is not a rumor mill, but keeps it ALL between just the 2 of you....this is very doable. But some are true "busy bodies" and they leek secrets, they might want to get involved, stir some trouble...... we don't do that...EVER. What is shared between us -about another stays with us & dies there, no seeds planted anywhere else.....that is OUR code. 

The other night a GF poured her heart out to me, she made a big blunder with her BF (the 4 of us all friends & do things together).... she even asked me to talk to my husband about it & get his opinion, called me up the next morning & wanted to know how he felt!


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Me & my husband are ONE...


This is how it is for Carol and I. We are two halves of a whole. The concept of "personal space" and "privacy" when it comes to her is a lot like saying the left half of my brain is keeping secrets from the right half. We both burble about our day as it occurs to us to do so.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Runs like Dog said:


> Do you feel a need to footnote every single second of your life? I don't.


Runs...do you really think that is what we are saying here....seriously?? It baffles me how some jump to this...just cause one has a willingness to be open ...BY NO MEANS = a diarrhea at the mouth obsessive talker who gives an outline & Chronology of their every moment of the day & every sentence of communication. 

Come on now...let's be sensible here. 

Maybe you have missed it in my particular posts...but we talk about the JUICIEST stuff there is to talk about . If it is boring, mundane, it never gets a mention.....why should it -if we did that all damn day, we'd grow so sickly of listening to each other -we'd want to throw each other out the window...or run away from each other or even give ourselves a sleeping pill to get away from the chatter !! 

Many times it doesn't even involve a conversation with anyone. Only the things that are interesting / entertaining and worthy of some discussion....something funny at work, something sad, something out of the blue...we might bounce how the other might feel about an issue that was brought up...if we were in those shoes... or as another mentioned...to see if WE gave "helpful advice" to a friend, even after the fact. 

All of this... just leads to a closer place of intimacy ...with your spouse... Communication.. it should be a JOY.  Not drudgery.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm also in the "Trust, but verify" camp. 

Even though it's true that everyone has some things that they may never share, it's unlikely that those things are in their phone, on their computer, etc. 

I think of privacy as something we need to respect, but it applies only to those things that do not hurt others. Once someone uses their private information, thoughts, and actions in a way that can harm someone else, they surrender their right to privacy on it, in my opinion. If they want their privacy, then they should first protect their right to it by not using it destructively or giving others reason to believe they are.

On the other hand, many people surrender their privacy too early, to people who haven't proven themselves trustworthy. They are also not protecting their right to privacy.

Over time, two trustworthy people will have no reason to protect their privacy from each other, and transparency will develop naturally. 

My husband and I are able to walk into the bathroom when each other is there and it's not a big deal, but we'll usually step out and close the door. We have each other's passwords and such, but as far as I know we've only ever used them for a specific purpose that we both knew at the time.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> All of this... just leads to a closer place of intimacy ...with your spouse... Communication.. it should be a JOY.  Not drudgery.


Or course communication and sharing and intimacy is paramount. But that isn't the same thing as snooping into someone's email. Is it?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

norajane said:


> Or course communication and sharing and intimacy is paramount. But that isn't the same thing as snooping into someone's email. Is it?


It's not considered snooping as long as you both are aware of the fact that you might be checking each other's accounts.

Snooping means to check it behind your back.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Yes I think snooping into email and FB and so on is part of open communication. No secrets.

This actually saved my marriage. My wife took a look at some emails I was sending. They seemed innocent enough to me in the frame of mind I was in. But she saw problems that really did exist. So her caring enough about our marriage saved us. Just an example of how transpaency can save a marriage.

Not sure why folks feel they need to hide emails and FB stuff from their spouse.

Again just my view but to me marriage is about Love and Respect. Trust is a by product. If we want trust we should be open and not have secrets.
We should trust our spouse to be able to look at our emails and FB. See how I turned that around?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> It's not considered snooping as long as you both are aware of the fact that you might be checking each other's accounts.
> 
> Snooping means to check it behind your back.


I don't consider reading my spouse's email to other people, and theirs to him, to be "communication" either, even if he knows I have access.

If we're reading each other's email, we don't trust each other. Discussing that fear or lack of trust openly is what I consider communication, not seeking things in email.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Like any sort of phone call with their friends, gossip, exactly what they spent on the 19th hole, etc etc. He/she is your spouse not your mother or your priest.


I trust my wife more than my mother and certainly a priest.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Not sure why folks feel they need to hide emails and FB stuff from their spouse.


'cause they're cheaters


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> So you've answered your own question.


I had to, seemed like no one else was going to.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Actually I can see runs like a dogs point in certain situations.

If you have a spouse who goes off about every little charge on the credit card or who is constantly gossiping about stuff you thought was personal or a litany of other possible paranoid actions then I may be less inclined to be so open about what I`m up to.

It`s kinda sad but I can see it.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> What's so big about it???
> I still don't understand those who want 100% privacy as if they are hiding something.
> I have never had a problem giving out my email/FB password to my partner or let him read my text messages.
> Especially, if I was married..
> ...



My husband(by common law i guess) has all my passwords to email, fb, ect and I have his... he's normally right there beside me when I'm messaging someone, posting in forums or on fb, ect. As far as using the toilet... eh.. he constantly talks to me there even if i'm taking a dump... lol. Masterbation... he normally helps me out with that when I've been in the mood and shower... he will either shower with me or sit on the toilet and chat with me while im in the shower... which I'm perfectly comfortable with so long as it's him... Now if it were a relative such as my mother, sister, brother, in law, ect.... yeah none of them know any passwords, none of them talk to me while im in the shower or bathroom and when they are using the toilet and keep the door open to chat with me i tend to yell at them to shut it... so... i guess it kind of differs on what each person feels comfortable with. For me... I share everything with my significant other.... but not with anyone else.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

No need to make sense of what other people think or how they act as most people are not a role model of how to live life.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> All of this... just leads to a closer place of intimacy ...with your spouse... Communication.. it should be a JOY.  Not drudgery.


Somehow I think the 50-60% of people here who's spouses are bed hopping would question the wisdom of that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Runs like Dog said:


> Somehow I think the 50-60% of people here who's spouses are bed hopping would question the wisdom of that.


Yes....obviously...why this should be a no brainer early on in every single SERIOUS relationship, something to strive for/towards...so when you marry...it flows as it should. 

If these people committed to transparency early on......there would be no victims so to speak, because the one who is falling out of love will have enough RESPECT for their partner to clue them in...and allow them to exit the relationship with some dignity....or the 2 of them will decide to work on it. But they have a choice, not left a hapless victim.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

There is very limited privacy in my marriage. Bathroom...num 2, but that's about it. Shower, face washing, peeing, changing clothes...maybe that time of the month...it can be a bloody mess. 

I share everything with my husband. I really don't care if we are friends, I tell the gossip. I don't care if I went to confession, he should and would and does know all my dirt so it's not like it's a surprise.

I tell him what me and my mom talk about. So what. My loyalty is to him, and only him. He has access to all my passwords for all 3 of my emails and both of my face books. We 9 times outta 10 use the same phone. 

I know his passwords he has had the same one since forever. The only thing I don't mess with is the bank card. I know the number, but I leave it to him. Unless he is too sick he is in charge. We already talked about it. 

If your spouse was into criminal activities, the other criminals and the Feds assume you already know...and you will go down twice as long...so you might as well know regular daily boring details.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

norajane said:


> I just don't see it that way. He IS a third party to them. Otherwise, they would be talking with him about it.
> 
> It's none of his business if so-and-so is having sexual problems, another is having financial problems, and another is having vaginal itching issues. I do not share my friends' and family's personal issues - they confide in ME.


My husband is not a "third party" he is my equal. My mom is not entitled to 100% of our life. Maybe 25-40%. 

I had a good friend, she hated the fact that my SO knew everything....I could have cared less. She is out of my life, and husband is here. 

If it were a "secret" than she should have kept it herself.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> This is a lot of Hallmark Card Bullsh^t. Everyone has stuff they don't need or want to explain.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My husband and I maintain separate identities outside of being husband and wife. We are not the same person. In order to be interdependent, one has to embrace their independence as well. 

So we don't have each other's passwords nor do we read each other's mail. There is no need for that. 

I leave my FB and TAM in plain view. My husband can read whatever I write if he wants to; but he chooses to respect my privacy. We are secure enough in our marriage that we don't need to breathe down each other's necks all the time. 

I have always kept a private journal over the course of my life. It helps me work out my feelings and reflect. I would be livid if my husband read it because my journal is a part of me that I prefer not to share with ANYONE. Oooh, I must be writing about an affair or something equally sordid right? :rofl:

Hank, all people who don't share passwords are cheaters? Wow, thanks for telling me that I am unfaithful to my husband. I didn't know. :rofl:

A healthy adult is a whole person without a partner. I know my momma didn't raise no half a person! 

I don't understand the point of aggressively putting down couples who do not share every little thing. We all conduct our marriages as we see fit and every couple has their own comfort level with privacy. Wouldn't it make more sense just to mind your own marriage, instead of telling others what they should be doing? :scratchhead:


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I agree that each person and couple is different in what they are willing to share and not willing to share. If your not comfortable with sharing everything that doesn't make you a cheater... and if you are comfortable with sharing everything with your spouse that doesn't mean your breathing down each others necks... Each person/couple is unique. That's where the saying "To each their own" comes in i think.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I have to side with the privacy group...

Heck, I am legally barred from sharing work emails with my spouse. 
I think I'm morally bound to protect the confidences of my friends. That's not me choosing them over my spouse, IMO.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> My husband and I maintain separate identities outside of being husband and wife. We are not the same person. In order to be interdependent, one has to embrace their independence as well.
> 
> ...


It's not that not sharing makes you a cheater. It's that you have arranged for yourself an environment where it is possible at all.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp. I will revert to debate through anecdotes.

Do you see a single person that's gone through infidelity on TAM that DOESN'T advocate 100% transparency and doesn't wish they had instituted BEFORE there were problems?

I've said it before, it's really easy to not care about privacy before you cheat/get cheated on. No one thinks it will happen to them. Everyone is surprised and feels foolish after it happens. I used to think like you, then I got hit with a ton of bricks and realized I was not thinking properly. Hopefully you can learn from our mistakes.

You can reduce your risk of alcohol poisoning by 99% if you never have more than one drink. You can reduce your risk of being in an unfaithful relationship by orders of magnitude, if you have a transparent marriage.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

:lol::lol:I grew up seeing husbands in my immediate and extended family enjoy cheating, so I certainly know that it can happen to us. I don't worry about it because I will not tolerate infidelity. 

Did you ever consider that a spouse can have *extra cell phones or FB accounts that they simply don't share?* Their partners may believe that they have access to everything, but the cheating spouse could be hiding even more. It happens all the time. Unfaithful spouses get P.O boxes to receive cell phone and credit card bills. Meanwhile, their poor naive partners have a false sense of security because they get to look in the cheater's other email. :rofl:

My point is, it is ALWAYS possible to cheat no matter how transparent you think your marriage is. My father did not have a cell phone when he cheated on my mother. _He called his OW from our house my mom was at work_. This went on for _years_. Neither of my parents had email or Facebook and they opened each other's lettermail all the time. 

I found your post very assumptive and condescending. Perhaps YOU are the one who is not thinking properly if you believe that total transparency can head off affairs. People will always find a way to do something wrong if they really want to.

I was responding to Hank's blanket statement that husband and wives who do not share everything are cheaters.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> My point is, it is ALWAYS possible to cheat no matter how transparent you think your marriage is. .


Actually you are right about this part! 

A cheater will always find a way to cheat, no matter the circumstances.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> Hank, all people who don't share passwords are cheaters? Wow, thanks for telling me that I am unfaithful to my husband. I didn't know. :rofl:


Oh dear.. that comment was tongue in cheek, thus the smiley. You need to read up on rhetological fallacies. I never said you were unfaithful to your husband, and to draw that conclusion from my comment is illogical.

There are so many personal experiences on this site about spouses who are fiercely (read 'fiercely') protective of their cell phone usage, messaging, etc, and it turned out they were having an affair. When someone is suddenly so protective of that, it is a red flag. Your mileage may vary, but don't assume the rest of the world is or should be like you.



FirstYearDown said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense just to mind your own marriage, instead of telling others what they should be doing? :scratchhead:


You do realize that is the point of this message board, to Talk About Marriage? The title is kind of a big heads up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> Originally Posted by FirstYearDown View Post
> 
> My point is, it is ALWAYS possible to cheat no matter how transparent you think your marriage is. .


There are no garantees in life. There can be infidelity in the best marriages. In marriages where needs have been met and there is sincere love for each other. But the risks are less so.

However, this does not mean that a spouse should not meet needs. It does not mean that spouses should not be transaparent. It does not mean that spouses should not do POJA ( Policy Of Joint Agreement ). It does not mean that spouses should not have agreed upon boundaries. Caring for a marriage lowers the risks. Should here can be read as "well advised to".
I mean folks can have an open marriage if they want. I would say they would be well advised not to. Some would argue here.

You can disagree but I feel most infidelity starts with an EA between people who do not intend to cheat. Transaparency allows many things. Not the least of which another perspective on the activities of their spouse. It also allows you to see what thier friends and colleagues are communicating to them. This informtion is helpful to spouses who are actively caring for their marriage.

Sorry but it seems we have tunnel vision often and our spouses can see things in our and other peoples behavior that are a potential danger for a marriage. It seems a natural part of the mating game I am realizing. We bond with people and see the good in them. It feels natural and good. But our spouse is not so close to the forest and they can see what is going on. They can have a view that is not clouded by dopamine and oxytocin as we are when we are bonded to others. We have that glow about things and see things in an altered view. 

We are seeing in other discussions that it is common for many women especially to be very comfortable with close male friends. Many husbands look at this and see their wife becoming bonded to and intimate with another man. So their is a proclivity here already for many. It would seem only right that the husband would be privvy to the communications that are had between these folks. Others can see these conversations in a different light. Spouse can also know when there are fishing attempts and by whom. Whether exes are being engaged. Whether boundaries are sliding. These can be subtle things. Spouse don't usually look unless their are other signs. 

So it has little to do with preventing someone who wants to cheat from cheating. It has to do with monitoring inappropriate and unfaithful behavior before that happenes. I understand this dynamic all to well. It does make it harder for a cheating spouse to keep it a secret from the other spouse for a long stretch. A spouse can see whether or not their spouse is sharing marital discussions with another man or whether he is doing so with her. At what level flirting is going on. Flirting is always there. We hope at a low level.

I have seen this argument about cheating with folks who like to sleep over their opposite sex friends houses often. That this should be fine as if they wanted to cheat they could at anytime. So that not being able to sleep over their place of stay with them for a week long on a visit is a total lack of trust. I see this as extremely poor boundaries and not that different from privacy. Having privacy is the isolation portion of Instigtion, Isolation and Escalation. It looks to me like a spouse is wanting to be isolated with others from their spouse. It has that appearance. 

So just saying if a spouse wants to cheat they will cheat is not engaging the marriage in a partnership. It is blind ambivalent trust. Again it is not just about the spouse themselves. Their spouse deserves to know if someone is pressuring them to be unfaithful. Many folks will not end a relationship with a friend who pressures them. They may enjoy being pursued or have a false sense of security.

Some of us have a different view of a partnership. Having secrets from a partner is very dangerous to any such relationship IMO. 

Transparency enables trust. It also allows a spouse to look out for their partner. I think this is much more needed than dealing with people who are out to cheat. Privacy does allow a spouse to commnuciate and behave in ways that their spouse would not approve.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Hank567 said:


> Oh dear.. that comment was tongue in cheek, thus the smiley. You need to read up on rhetological fallacies. I never said you were unfaithful to your husband, and to draw that conclusion from my comment is illogical.
> 
> There are so many personal experiences on this site about spouses who are fiercely (read 'fiercely') protective of their cell phone usage, messaging, etc, and it turned out they were having an affair. When someone is suddenly so protective of that, it is a red flag. Your mileage may vary, but don't assume the rest of the world is or should be like you.
> 
> ...


Those who love to talk down to others are usually the most ignorant. If you were as wise as you think you are, you would remember that _on the internet, we cannot see or hear each other_. I cannot tell if you are joking and there is nothing illogical about _believing that someone means what they have typed_.  I can't believe that you do not realize how easy to mistake tone without verbal communication or seeing body language. Your smilie could have been rueful or ironic. 

I was under the impression that TAM was about sharing and helping others with their marriage problems or speaking of solutions. I wasn't aware that the purpose of this message board, was to denounce and insult those who may not always do what works for most members. :scratchhead: Please remember that I am not the one who begin this thread, harshly judging couples for how much they share in a marriage. It was quite the opposite. I wouldn't dare start a thread with words such as "All couples who share everything must be...(insert horrible trait or behavior)" That would be very inappropriate. 

Even the member who started this thread admitted that people can always find some way to be unfaithful. What does that tell you? Re-read my story about my father cheating by using the phone while his wife was not home. If you think that a "transparent" spouse can't get another cell phone or mailbox, you are not informed about the obvious ways around so-called transparency. 

No matter how private my husband and I are, my morals keep me from being unfaithful in any way. One of the few benefits of growing up in infidelity is seeing the damage it does. My husband was the first to know when a man tried to get me into bed with him, even though my hubby did not have access to my bbm. My husband and I agree not to have opposite sex friends because it can lead to EA's.

I hope that my husband is always faithful to me. However, I am not naive enough to believe that he would/could never cheat. I don't put being unfaithful past _anyone_, even those that claim to have no privacy.

Live and let live.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> Those who love to talk down to others are usually the most ignorant. If you were as wise as you think you are, you would remember that _on the internet, we cannot see or hear each other_. I cannot tell if you are joking and there is nothing illogical about _believing that someone means what they have typed_.  I can't believe that you do not realize how easy to mistake tone without verbal communication or seeing body language. Your smilie could have been rueful or ironic.
> 
> I was under the impression that TAM was about sharing and helping others with their marriage problems or speaking of solutions. I wasn't aware that the purpose of this message board, was to denounce and insult those who may not always do what works for most members. :scratchhead: Please remember that I am not the one who begin this thread, harshly judging couples for how much they share in a marriage. It was quite the opposite. I wouldn't dare start a thread with words such as "All couples who share everything must be...(insert horrible trait or behavior)" That would be very inappropriate.
> 
> ...



I haven't talked down to you at all. I'm just trying to engage in some meaningful discussion on the topic. I'll agree that on the Internet it may not have come across that I was being facetious, and you may have misunderstood my post. However, in no way did I say you were cheating on your husband, and I feel hurt that you would put those words in my mouth. 

I tried to see what you meant about people being insulting, but looking back at lovelygirl's original post, I really don't see anything other than her asking a genuine question. Perhaps if you could point out an example to me, it would help.

The point here is to help us understand each other, but I really feel like you're denouncing me instead of trying to understand my position here, thereby doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing.

Peace.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Telling me the obvious title of the forum and asking that I read up about rhetoric is condescending and rude. I suspect that you know this but now you are trying friendlier approach because I called you in your BS. You DID say that all those who do not share everything must be cheating, so the only words in your mouth are your own! I clearly misunderstood your post, but I was only going on what you said. 

Lovelygirl implied that wanting privacy means that someone is hiding something. That opinion has been shared with many other members. As a wife who does not share everything with her husband, I find that attitude shortsighted and insulting.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> Lovelygirl implied that wanting privacy means that someone is hiding something. That opinion has been shared with many other members. As a wife who does not share everything with her husband, I find that attitude shortsighted and insulting.


I didn't say all those who hid things are cheaters.
I meant to say when you hid things *chances* of you being a cheater are *higher*. [NOT YOU PERSONALLY, I was talking in general]
So my sentence was not absolute.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

It seems ironic that this discussion has come down to folks bashing each other over "private" messages.

Just an observation. Nothing to see here.


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