# I did a stupid thing



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

As most of you know, I have a lot of issues with my mother, and have really been digging deep and working hard to understand where she's coming from, what I need, and why we cannot get along and have a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.

So, I'm planning to rent out my home, and was contacted recently by a friend of mine about her possibly renting it out. This is the best possible outcome in terms of this, and my fingers are crossed tight! Told my folks, they also hope it works. Called my mother today, just to chat. BF and I had had a run in with my neighbour's dog who is very big and undisciplined. I love dogs, this one included, but boy his papa really needs to crack down on his behaviour. My neighbour at one point had an interest in renting out my home, but I don't want his dog in my home. I know that my neighbour had to replace pretty much all of his flooring because of his dog, and I don't have an interest in my home being damaged to that extent. 

So, in talking to my mother today, she said, "well, what if your friend and neighbour hook up? Then the big dog will end up living there too". Mother is quite dramatic, and likes to consider the worst possible outcomes. She changed the subject, then I stupidly asked her why she would say something like this, and that it was a little silly to think about at this point. Sure, they could hook up, but I could probably just tell my friend that I don't want the dog in my home, period. Mother got defensive right away saying the usual things like she was allowed to say things like that, that I was reading too far into it (one of us was but I don't feel like it was me). Things got heated fast, and I know I said some things that I probably shouldn't have, and so did she, but I'm sure she doesn't feel badly. That's the difference: I feel badly, she wants me to feel badly. Or at least, that's the feeling I get. 

Should I apologize, or just let things be? I don't feel like I was in the wrong at all, everything that I said was true. I just feel bad for making her feel bad. 

I've been reading a lot about daughters of narcissistic mothers, and I truly believe that that's what I'm dealing with to some extent. She can never do or say anything wrong, and when she does, it's always my fault and I read too far into it. She has apologized to me genuinely a grand total of once in my life, other than that, it's either been a forced thing, or it's sarcastic. Oh, and this is also the same neighbour that they were convinced wanted to sleep with me when he first moved in a few years ago. Facebook told me that he's 51, not sure if that's correct, I would peg him in his mid- to late-60s; I'm 44. I tried to reassure them that I wasn't going over there, that I wasn't interested in him, yet even when we were neighbourly and said hello over the fence, if my folks found out, mother would be mad and let me have it. It was beyond ridiculous!

Okay, that's it, please give me a little guidance on how I should handle this. It won't be happening again, as I know how she is, and interacting with her like this is pointless.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Suggestion: Check out Dr. Les Carter's channel on YouTube. Also Dr. Ramini. Both of them are experts on narcissism. They go into great depth about narcissists in general and mothers in particular. Sorry to say, but sometimes you just have to decide not to get into discussions. And, yeah, your mom sounds like the stereotypical narcissist. Never wrong. Never apologizes. It's all about HER and how anything you do will impact HER.

Ask me how I know all this. My mother was the quintessential narcissist. My main impression from what you've reported over the years is you still hang onto the hopes that your mom will see the light. Also, you engage her when you should just keep the conversation superficial or non-existent. I think you've made great strides in learning how to handle your mom. My take on it? This is just how I handled it, but I cut my mom out of my life. And, when I finally decided to do that, I did it with a sense of sorrow - yet I did it without anger. She was who she was. And for me, at least, I didn't want or need people like my mom in my life. JMO


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Ursula said:


> Things got heated fast, and I know I said some things that I probably shouldn't have, and so did she, but I'm sure she doesn't feel badly. That's the difference: I feel badly, she wants me to feel badly. Or at least, that's the feeling I get.


I also want to point out ^^this^^ is about you enabling her. She needs to make someone be the fall guy. It allows her to maintain her "superior" position in the game. You need to stop engaging. Allow her to find another source for her I'm-superior supply. It's about breaking the cycle and (realistically) having no expectations she will change. Again, check out Dr. Les Carter on YouTube.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm not a psychologist but I had a narc in my life. She's showing signs of it. 
If she is:
If she says stuff like above, don't react. You'll get abuse back, cos it's a type of abuse/bullying. Say nothing/change to a subject like the weather! or politely leave (best option).They're excellent at finding stuff to put you down, criticise etc eg the neighbour comment.
There's no cure. if there was they'd never admit their behaviour was unacceptable. Everyone else is to blame. Yup, they never apologise. Have miniumum contact (zero is best) and tell her as little bout your life as possible cos it will be criticised.
Don't expect her to change. She won't. Accept it. There won't be a normal mother-daughter relationship (I'm presuming it was like this always?) There's grief associated with having to accept that. 
Just cos we're connected by DNA doesn't mean we should put up with it. You're 44. It sounds as if she is still way too involved in your life. You need to address that eg tell her after your house is rented out, not your plans to do so.
They're toxic. If a friend was like that you'd dump them.
Dr Ramani is excellent (as above).
PS She's not 'allowed' to say things like that to you (neighbour thing). It was ridiculous, maybe even twisted. They feel very entitled unlike the rest of us mere mortals.
If she's not a narc, she's displaying signs of it.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> Also Dr. Ramini.


Yup.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No apology. She certainly would never apologize to you and really mean it. This is who she’s always been and who she’ll always be. A toxic parent doesn’t ever become a normal loving parent — they think other people are in the wrong, not them. Hopefully, at some point soon you’ll stop always feeling responsible for her state of mind. Yes, it would have been better — for you — had you not brought it up again after she dropped it because then she wouldn’t have had the opportunity to manipulate you into feeling bad about the exchange when she clearly doesn’t and won’t. She’s an expert at heaping guilt on you and you know it and we know it. You’ll have to decide how much more power you’re going to allow her to have over you because she’s never going to willingly let go.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I wont play armchair psycho analysis, but about all I can say is narcissist is the most over used word in the English language these days...I won't even attempt that based on what little you posted..

Newsflash....Parents think they know more than their kids...This is nothing new...

What your mom said is something my mom would also say....I would let it roll off my back, or turn it into a joke.. I'd never gent bent about it, but I am me, and you are you.. My mom stopped paying for anything for me when I was like 16 years old, so its been a very long time since she had any real power or influence in my life..

A lot of women of her generation, my mom included ( I am assuming she is about my moms age?), are tough as nails, They don't apologize a lot, because the things people now get hurt over don't even show up on their radar...Its not that they don't love you, its just that's they way they are.. I bet if you said nothing about it, she would have forgot about it a minute after she said it...And she probably isn't the least bit hurt about it, so I don't think you need to worry about apologizing, either...Again, I am making an assumption here, based on very little, so forgive me if I don't have this read right...

You are a good person, and have good judgement and intelligence, just based on your posts...I would leave it be and move on, but that's me...Accept her for what /who she is, life is too short to carry these types of beefs, especially with family members, let alone a parent... 02


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> I also want to point out ^^this^^ is about you enabling her. She needs to make someone be the fall guy. It allows her to maintain her "superior" position in the game. You need to stop engaging. Allow her to find another source for her I'm-superior supply. It's about breaking the cycle and (realistically) having no expectations she will change. Again, check out Dr. Les Carter on YouTube.


This ^^

The only way you're going to be able to deal with her, is to manage her rather than hope for change. Because at this juncture, she isn't going to x


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Prodigal, thanks for the suggestions, I will check those out! I know that my mother will not change, but you are right in that I do hope that someday she’ll see the light and realize the damage she’s done. I know this is futile, but I would LOVE it if this would happen. I haven’t been engaging her at all for the last long while, and it’s worked quite well. Great, even. It gives me a little pleasure to know that when I don’t react, it bothers her. Sometimes though I just really want to throw it all in her face, ya know? I know that she gets her supply from seeing me upset by something she’s done or said, she also throws it back onto me because she can’t possibly be the bad guys. I commend you for taking that step and walking away from your own mother; this isn’t something that I feel that I can do, but just need to continue to work to get a better handle on myself again. 

@**********, oh yes, she’s been really good at finding things that get under my skin over the years, putting me down in her weird little ways, and then backtracking through all of it like it was all in my head. It’s a really good way to make a person feel totally nuts! To answer your question, actually no, her and I weren’t always like this. She was never a very present mother, and relied on my father to do things with me (after supper baseball in the front yard, bike rides, etc.), but her and I got along well up until I was probably into my early teens and started testing out my voice, opinions, and trying to find my way. She used to tell me that she hoped I grew a backbone before she died, but what she meant was for me to stand up for myself to everyone but my family. I assumed that things would get better the older I got and the more she saw me grow into who I am now, but it’s actually gotten worse. Had I known this, I would have moved far, far away about 20 years ago. She is way too involved in my life, which is something I’m trying to fix now; she likes me to call her everyday when I get home from work. When I move in with my partner though, that will be changing. And she’s allowed to say whatever she wants to, I just wish she’d have a little more tact and thought behind it. 

@Openminded, wow, you hit the nail on the head with that short post. Everything you said in there describes her and I to a tee. She’s always maintained that she knows me “so well”, and she does, in terms of knowing what buttons to push. She’s heaped on so much guilt over the years, and has had me fine tuned to act exactly how she wants. In the past, I’ve called her again, sobbing and begging for forgiveness, which of course she begrudgingly gives. I don’t want to give her anymore power, and you know, I think she knows that I’m onto her wiley ways because before today, it had been months since I’d engaged her. I’ve gotten good at turning off the emotions, and giving very vague, nonchalant replies. This bothers her. I need to do more of this!

@hamadryad, I don’t think that my mother is a full-fledged narcissist, but she certainly displays traits of being so. Honestly, everyone can be a little narcissistic at times; some just can recognize it in themselves and know when to stop, and others don’t. I get that parents know more than their kids, but there’s a point where that stops, and that point is when the “kid” becomes a fully-functioning adult. I’m 44, and no longer need to be parented. I’m old enough to be a Grandma for goodness sake! I would totally take this comment of hers another way if it weren’t mashed in there with about 1000 other comments over the years that have been designed to cut me down as a person. She is 73, no idea if she’s your own mother’s age. She is also tough as nails, but not by nature; she was cut down by her MIL and SIL many years ago, and has yet to get over it, and as a result, she’s turned into a very cold, unhappy person. I recently went through a LOT of photographs, and I noticed that mother is genuinely happy around her siblings, and extended family, but her smile is fake in the photos of the family she helped build. Yes, she would have forgotten about what she said, you’re correct, she always forgets the weird/rude/over-the-top things that she says/does. This is why she doesn’t apologize; she thinks she’s perfect and couldn’t possibly ever be in the wrong. I am a good person, or try to be, you bet. And yes, I need to accept her for who she is, as this is what crazy-making is all about!

@frusdil, you are correct, she’ll never change, and I’m tired of changing to suit her. Managing our “relationship” sounds about right at this point!

I talked to my sister about this, and she said that from the sounds of it, I have nothing to apologize for, which is what I thought, but it was nice to hear her confirm that. I won’t be bring this up to mother again, and if she brings it up, I will grey stone her and just give minimal replies to her. 

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! Sorry to keep harping on this odd dynamic that her and I have, but sometimes a situation happens, and it’s really good to get feedback from y’all, so I really appreciate that!


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

I feel for you. I have struggled with my own mom all my life. She has no empathy for others. She is rude. As in commenting negatively about someone’s (usually one of her daughters) weight gain when she’s greeting them. Thinks she can says whatever she wants because she’s our mom. Last few years have been difficult as she has started with “I can’t say anything to you. You take everything the wrong way”. I think to myself. Geez mom, you’re standing less than 5 feet from me telling outright lies about me to another relative… how does one take that
“the wrong way”??

Anyway, my point being that I think that it’s saying a lot that you can maintain any sort of relationship with her at all. I’ve read several of your other posts over last 2 yrs or so. It’s seems you have a good handle on things overall.
For me, I live 3+hours from my mom and I have stopped trying at all. It feels fake to me. Everyone is different. My sisters follow some of the advice noted above to keep things light, or walk away if conversation shows signs of going off the rails, and don’t get into a debate, don’t get drawn in, Etc. But to me, all of that is good for keeping the peace if you have to be in her presence but to me, it’s not a relationship. It’s being fake.

I would not worry about an apology. You’ve been doing good and this was just a little slip up. Forget it and move on.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

I have to disagree about the over use of narcissist. I think “bully” is and has been for a few years, the most over used word.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If the relationship doesn’t work for you - have you considered not contacting her?

if not, don’t give her any info to work with. Also, IF you respond to things she says - one word answers are best… like yes, no, maybe.

she uses your info as a weapon to criticize you or against you - stop giving her any info about you!

IF you have to keep in touch the do it like this:
It’s easy to have a conversation with a narcissist - it’s always about them! You ask a question and let them talk about themself (their favorite topic). Then say gotta go, bye.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why do you take everything she says to heart? Dogs bark and jackasses bray because that's what they do. When she utters something ridiculous, (instead of wondering why she would say something so ludicrous) simply chuckle and tell her that would be funny if it happened. Some people get off on ginning up others.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

@Ursula Have you tried therapy? It could help with acceptance, the emotional scarring, strategies for engaging with her & grief which is likely lurking in your sub-conscious being your Mom. Acceptance and lack of expectation that the person will change was the key for me. I'm not a buddhist but was taught that by a family friend, a buddhist monk from Tibet.

Anyone is allowed to say anything but with words come responsibilities. No one is so stupid that they can't see when someone is upset. `She probably feels more ownership cos you're her daughter. Ironically ppl like her tend to be hyper-senstivie to criticism.

@hamadryad I totally agree that narc is an over-used term, thus I said 'traits'. Big difference between having traits or full-blown. There's also NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, a mental illnes, different from full-blown. Tbh one doesn't need to be a psychologist to recognise someone's dominant traits, good or bad.

Lots of women in her generation being 'tough as nails' and not apologising, their radar etc is a pretty sweeping statement. 'As tough as nails' doesn't necessarily mean that someone will also treat ppl badly. My grandma was as tough as nails but she was also one of the kindest ppl I've ever known.
It's not generational either, it's been around as long as humans have been, like any other trait. Also research has shown many times over that its prevalence is in fact higher in men and that it's on the rise due to social media which feeds into narc traits.

In the end whether a label can be put on it doesn't matter. It's about learning how to deal with it.

You had a wise old head on you at a young age to have dealt with it which should be encouraging for OP . As you said, 'it's just how she is' and there are strategies.



Blondilocks said:


> Dogs bark and jackasses bray because that's what they do.


@Blondilocks I loved that, made me ROFL .


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Ursula said:


> As most of you know, I have a lot of issues with my mother, and have really been digging deep and working hard to understand where she's coming from, what I need, and why we cannot get along and have a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.
> 
> So, I'm planning to rent out my home, and was contacted recently by a friend of mine about her possibly renting it out. This is the best possible outcome in terms of this, and my fingers are crossed tight! Told my folks, they also hope it works. Called my mother today, just to chat. BF and I had had a run in with my neighbour's dog who is very big and undisciplined. I love dogs, this one included, but boy his papa really needs to crack down on his behaviour. My neighbour at one point had an interest in renting out my home, but I don't want his dog in my home. I know that my neighbour had to replace pretty much all of his flooring because of his dog, and I don't have an interest in my home being damaged to that extent.
> 
> ...


One doesn't have to engage in every offhand comment another puts out. No response or moving on to other conversational items is a skill you may want to use more.

So she said what she did, so?

Why dwell on it?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ursula said:


> As most of you know, I have a lot of issues with my mother, and have really been digging deep and working hard to understand where she's coming from, what I need, and why we cannot get along and have a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.
> 
> So, I'm planning to rent out my home, and was contacted recently by a friend of mine about her possibly renting it out. This is the best possible outcome in terms of this, and my fingers are crossed tight! Told my folks, they also hope it works. Called my mother today, just to chat. BF and I had had a run in with my neighbour's dog who is very big and undisciplined. I love dogs, this one included, but boy his papa really needs to crack down on his behaviour. My neighbour at one point had an interest in renting out my home, but I don't want his dog in my home. I know that my neighbour had to replace pretty much all of his flooring because of his dog, and I don't have an interest in my home being damaged to that extent.
> 
> ...


Your situation with your mother reminds me of the movie War Games, when the computer has to learn that, "the only winning move is not to play"....that is where YOU are with her. You have got to come to the place of acceptance that you will NEVER "win" -- you will NEVER have the mother that you want her to be. So the only way to deal with that is to NOT play her games.

In your interaction, it was you who sounded defensive first, when you circled back to ask her why she would bring up the ridiculous scenario that she did. You already know the answer to that question...she enjoys imagining that drama.

I believe the reason you engage her even though you said yourself it was stupid and you should have known better, is because you are still trying to give her an "Ah-ha!" moment...you are still trying to bridge the gap and grant her understanding and create the connection you want with her.

THAT is what you need to let go of...the belief that you will somehow be able to create that with her and make her into the mother you've always needed. That will NEVER happen. For your own emotional health, you need to start creating a safe space for yourself when you are interacting with her...a place inside your own self that she cannot see or touch, and where she isn't allowed. You need to interact with her from outside this safe space, so that you remain unaffected (as much as possible) by her antics and needling.

Also, you are most likely correct that she is not an actual narcissist. She is just emotionally selfish and very self-absorbed. If she was a narcissist, you wouldn't be able to manage her at all, but I believe you can have a limited, functional relationship with her the way she is if you stop engaging with her on sensitive topics that hurt you. Just brush her comments off and don't allow her to pull your strings. YOU pull your own strings.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Isn't it something how what should have been a little back and forth dialogue turns into a fight? I get it though, it's the ten thousand other conversations over the years that keep the fires stoked.

Maybe I have missed a lot of background but I don't see this as anything more than a negative and miserable person gaslighting you. So it becomes an Ursula problem in my opinion. 

If you feel obliged to maintain a relationship because she is your mother you need to adopt an attitude of indifference. If she says your clothes are ugly say you like them just fine. If she says you need to buy a new car say I like the car I have. If something happens and she says "I told you so" just smile and shrug. You are an adult, you don't need her approval, her acceptance, or even her love, and the reality is you don't even need her in your life.

I come from a family full of drama and once I hit my early twenties I stepped out of that circle. They still fight but there hasn't been a cross word thrown my way in forty years, and even if it happened it would have little effect on me.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Lotsofheart73, I'm sorry that you've also been through the ringer with your own mother. Your words ring true: mine says the same thing "I can't say anything to you, you take everything the wrong way, your so sensitive", etc. Thank-you, I'm glad that I can maintain some sort of relationship with her, but it's really not much of one. You're right, it's being very fake, which isn't good, but I can't bring myself to walk away.

@Beach123, honestly I would love to walk away, but just can't bring myself to. I used to be an open book with her, trying to please her, but very recently realized that this is something that will never happen, so I've stopped trying. I've been pulling back over the past while, and it feels good to do that. Just sometimes she really irks me! Ah, good plan on the conversation topic!

@Blondilocks, I take everything that she says to heart for a couple of reasons: I'm a highly sensitive person, and her and I have been this way for my whole adult life, so it's hard to just do a 180 and react differently. I'm working on it, but it's a work in progress. I do like your thoughts though, and she probably wouldn't like it if I found humour in her ridiculous ideas. 

@**********, yup, the first time I went to therapy because of my mother was 2013, the last time was just before Covid hit, and that caused therapy to halt. I've been doing a lot of self-work and reading though, and will contact my therapist for an appointment. Your buddhist monk family friend is wise. And you're right about my mother being hyper-sensitive to criticism. Even if she's mildly questioned about something, she goes from 0-60 in 2 seconds flat. Super defensive. You're also right in that words come with responsibilities, and I'm sure that she can see when I get upset; that's how she gets her supply and giddiness.

@LisaDiane, holy cow, that post hit home on many levels, thank-you. I've never heard of War Games, but totally got the analogy. The silly thing is that I KNOW I will never win, I'll never be the daughter she wanted, and she'll never the the mom that I wanted and needed. And you're right, I'd love for her to have that ah-ha moment where she realizes the damage that she does, but I also know this isn't going to happen, as I feel like she cares more about the drama than mending our relationship. A safe space sounds great and so does 'pulling my own strings', just need to keep working to get there.

@Cooper, it's definitely my problem to deal with, yes, and it was just a little back and forth, but it's also the numerous other comments over the years that make this one bother me more than it should. She's not worth my time, I know this, and she's very negative, which is something that I don't aspire to be.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

You're on the right path @Ursula. It's good to vent even if you know what you should be doing! Lots of posters do that. The encouragement can help you move forward and you can get ideas for coping, especially from those who have dealt with it. So feel free LOL.

It's good to set a goal eg when you move in with your BF make it a line in the sand.

The buddhist monk also said that it's a person's OWN responsibility to remove themselves from such situations as many posters said. I couldn't leave mine for a few years. The monk actually witnessed it and suggested silence which is the same as a shoulder shrug as @Cooper said. It would have worked a treat with her dog comment.

Be warned, if you do that, you'll get another (angrier) comment back. Just do the shoulder shrug again. When I started doing it, after a while I'd actually be chuckling inside while shrugging. Sometimes I'd make a comment about the weather LOL. That's a handy one too. It will probably not stop her behaviour as they don't give up easily, maybe forever. It didn't in my situation. But in the end I couldn't care less what the person said.

The most important thing is to have a strategy. You said you phoned her. Don't bother. She'll make a comment about it when next you see her. All you gotta do is say you were busy. If she keeps going, start on the shoulder shrug . You'll come away feeling proud of yourself, not miserable.

Why not try it next time & come back here and tell us what happened .

Life goes by quickly, so go build a great life with your BF!
Remember what @Blondilocks said. "Dogs bark and jackasses bray because that's what they do." I'm still laughing about that one.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@Ursula, it feels like you did a stupid thing, which is what your mother's antics are designed to produce. That puts her on the top and makes her feel more powerful. What you did was a normal response to a parent. You have a natural inclination to believe in and trust your mother. That is how it should be, but there is a serious disconnect with your mother. 
I understand where you are coming from. I would try and try to reason with my dad and to make sense of his antics. It caused me all sorts of problems and I didn't really live my life the way I wanted to due to his negative influence. I finally put my foot down and cut him off from not only me, but my children. He was very angry. His response created a lot of family problems. Looking back, I wish I had done it much sooner and not tried to make nice with him at all. It was a complete waste of time and didn't make things any better. I realize now that what he really wanted was to have me under his control. In trying to protect myself, I lived in fear, rather than in peace.
Looking back, I shouldn't have engaged him by trying to come to an understanding. He was incapable of that. It would have been much better had I told not engaged with him. You can't reason with someone who has no reason.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I had a very toxic mother. She had a tough childhood that I wouldn’t wish on anyone and she never recovered from it. I am an only child so the fall guy for her unhappiness was me. Nothing I ever did was right in her eyes. Never. My solution as an adult was to put a lot of physical distance between us so I only saw her once a year for a brief period and to limit my phone conversations to no more than ten or fifteen minutes once a week. If the conversation began going downhill, I refused to engage and if she didn’t stop I ended the call. She complained constantly about me to other family members who dutifully relayed every complaint to me. I ignored them all. You will have to learn how to deal with your mom in your own way but that’s what worked for me.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Why do you take everything she says to heart? Dogs bark and jackasses bray because that's what they do. When she utters something ridiculous, (instead of wondering why she would say something so ludicrous) simply chuckle and tell her that would be funny if it happened. Some people get off on ginning up others.


QFT. I did this to my mother in law once, she had a crack at one of my brothers after a relationship breakdown, something like "there's been so many women hasn't there?", I responded quick as a flash "yes, like SIL (her daughter), he's been unlucky in love, and there's been a few women, well in SIL's case not women obviously, lots and lots and lots of men".


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Think in terms of mind over matter. If she don't matter, you won't mind. I take things my mom says with grain of salt...when I have contact with her. 

My wife went like 7 yrs w/o speaking to her mom. Both our moms are a piece of work.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ursula said:


> So, in talking to my mother today, she said, "well, what if your friend and neighbour hook up? Then the big dog will end up living there too".


That comment caused a complete meltdown? That's the hill you decided to die on? 

I have not followed your relationship with you mother here, so I don't have the background to contextualize that comment. It is absolutely something I would say to my daughter in a casual conversation. I would not expect a full on fight to follow.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Cletus said:


> That comment caused a complete meltdown? That's the hill you decided to die on?
> 
> I have not followed your relationship with you mother here, so I don't have the background to contextualize that comment. It is absolutely something I would say to my daughter in a casual conversation. I would not expect a full on fight to follow.


@Cletus, no, it didn't cause a meltdown, at least not on my part. I questioned why my mother would say something like that, and she went from 0-60, fast. We both said things we shouldn't have.

This is not a new thing, and has been going on my entire adult life (I'm 44). We can't communicate, I do nothing right, she refuses to meet halfway, and we only get along when I'm smiling and nodding. I have no problem doing the latter, as I have my own home where I can go live my own life, but there are times when what she says is just another inappropriate thing and those things add up. If we got along generally and she'd said something like that as a casual comment, I'd have brushed it off. But, I know the comment was designed to get under my skin. She doesn't know ME from Adam, but she knows how to really irk me.

I've been to therapy and read many self-help books, and have really worked on myself these last couple years, and it's been good. They are talking about moving, and I pray that they move far away so that it's not just a quick trip in between our homes anymore.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Ursula said:


> As most of you know, I have a lot of issues with my mother, and have really been digging deep and working hard to understand where she's coming from, what I need, and why we cannot get along and have a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.
> 
> So, I'm planning to rent out my home, and was contacted recently by a friend of mine about her possibly renting it out. This is the best possible outcome in terms of this, and my fingers are crossed tight! Told my folks, they also hope it works. Called my mother today, just to chat. BF and I had had a run in with my neighbour's dog who is very big and undisciplined. I love dogs, this one included, but boy his papa really needs to crack down on his behaviour. My neighbour at one point had an interest in renting out my home, but I don't want his dog in my home. I know that my neighbour had to replace pretty much all of his flooring because of his dog, and I don't have an interest in my home being damaged to that extent.
> 
> ...


Get treatment on recovery from narcistic parents.
Don't fix it you will mess up every facet of your life. And you won't even know why you lived the way you have.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

David60525 said:


> Get treatment on recovery from narcistic parents.
> Don't fix it you will mess up every facet of your life. And you won't even know why you lived the way you have.


Yup, been there, wondered that already. My folks are older, and I wish now more than ever that I'd moved away 20 years ago. Like far, far away. No idea why I didn't bite that bullet, and I can't believe that I've lived like this for so many years. So much wasted time and opportunities.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

What comes to my mind is the rental. You are going to rent to a friend. PLEASE write a formal document with the do's and don't's, have them initial each item and sign. Tell them your attorney said you 'need to' or something. NEVER go into those deals with the 'we are friends' mentality. That is how things go bad. I think your mom's thought of a dog being in your house is well warranted, and the renter needs to understand "dogs are NOT permitted on the property! 

I love dogs, I have them, and I train them. However, you can't put "no bad dogs" on a form! If I had a nickel for every time someone said "my dog is great"..... People also try to use the excuse, "it is a tiny dog".....Yeah, and tiny dogs are notorious for peeing on everything. Personally, I would extend to "no pets!!!!!"..... Cats pee all over, sharpen claws on everything they see, etc. 

I am not touching the mom issue, but she does have a valid point. Find the silver lining in that!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

bobsmith said:


> What comes to my mind is the rental. You are going to rent to a friend. PLEASE write a formal document with the do's and don't's, have them initial each item and sign. Tell them your attorney said you 'need to' or something. NEVER go into those deals with the 'we are friends' mentality. That is how things go bad. I think your mom's thought of a dog being in your house is well warranted, and the renter needs to understand "dogs are NOT permitted on the property!
> 
> 
> I love dogs, I have them, and I train them. However, you can't put "no bad dogs" on a form! If I had a nickel for every time someone said "my dog is great"..... People also try to use the excuse, "it is a tiny dog".....Yeah, and tiny dogs are notorious for peeing on everything. Personally, I would extend to "no pets!!!!!"..... Cats pee all over, sharpen claws on everything they see, etc.
> ...


Thanks for the thoughts! I can't really say no to pets; I have 2 small dogs (who are really great, by the way), and so I would look like a hypocrite if I put my foot down about that. Pets will be allowed within reason, but my neighbour's untrained dog who weighs more than me isn't one of them. My old boy just started peeing in the house due to kidney disease and being almost 15. I have hard floors on the main floor and put down pee pads when I'm not home. And peeing on things isn't a tiny dog issue, it's just a general dog issue if they haven't been trained to not do that, or if they're old and ill like my boy. Being a dog trainer, you should know that. Any responsible pet parent would deal with things like this by putting down pee pads and blocking off carpeted areas. 

As to renting out to a friend, she's one of my pet care clients turned friend (I run a pet care business on the side), and I contacted my lawyer this morning about getting a residential tenancy agreement drawn up. She really would be the perfect renter (for my home) to be honest. However, I understand that some wouldn't rent to her because of her cat.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Hey, if you are cool with pets in the home, all good! Actually you would probably open up the prospects 10 fold! I am just forwarding wisdom from some other property owners I know. I would never feel odd about renting my property as "no pets", even while standing there with my own service dog. Your property, you make the rules. 

As to dogs, yes I certainly understand them, and I am pretty blunt with people because it is like a broken record to me. Small dogs very rarely get discipline (not saying never), people love to spoil them, they sleep on their bed, and they rarely have manners. I am not saying this does not happen with big dogs, but super common with small dogs. 

I get that you are defensive about small dogs. I don't hate them, but I see how people treat them differently. For that reason, I only work with big dogs. As well because the risk factor is much higher with big dogs, so people sort of have incentive to listen and follow the rules. It is beyond annoying how people meet one of mine, and fall over themselves about how insane compliant they are. AND how happy they are! Yet they STILL pet the dog when it jumps, give treats for no reason, don't deal with bad behavior, and assume their dog just sucks. 

I've walked into a home, and the owner told me, "uh, probably keep your shoes on. my dog has a lot of "accidents""....Right....that dog is not even house trained!!! And over here, we train to go on command AND in a designated place that I point to depending on where we are.


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