# Is this a tease?



## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Quick background. I've been married 13 years. Sex has been OK throughout the marriage, with me usually wanting more and her wanting a little less, but we make it work. However, in the past year things have really gone downhill. Five months ago she asked if we could take a break from sex. We have only had sex 2 twice since then.

So here is my issue/question. Sometimes my wife will come to bed in the nude or wearing a thong or nightie. But when I make a move she seems annoyed and doesn't want to do anything sexual. When I ask her why she came to bed dressed the way she did she says it doesn't mean anything. 

My question for the ladies is if you come to bed naked or wearing something suggestive are you trying to send a signal or does it really not mean anything? Is she messing/teasing with me or am I over analyzing this? I know that when I sleep in the nude she always assumes I'm looking for action.


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## annagarret (Jun 12, 2011)

has she always done this or is this a new thing? If I do that it always means I want it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Quick background. I've been married 13 years. Sex has been OK throughout the marriage, with me usually wanting more and her wanting a little less, but we make it work. However, in the past year things have really gone downhill. Five months ago she asked if we could take a break from sex. We have only had sex 2 twice since then.
> 
> So here is my issue/question. Sometimes my wife will come to bed in the nude or wearing a thong or nightie. But when I make a move she seems annoyed and doesn't want to do anything sexual. When I ask her why she came to bed dressed the way she did she says it doesn't mean anything.
> 
> My question for the ladies is if you come to bed naked or wearing something suggestive are you trying to send a signal or does it really not mean anything? Is she messing/teasing with me or am I over analyzing this? I know that when I sleep in the nude she always assumes I'm looking for action.


Sounds kind of messed up to me. I don't think you're overanalyzing. Just have no clue as to what she's thinking...


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

annagarret said:


> has she always done this or is this a new thing? If I do that it always means I want it.


Over the 13 year marriage I'd say it's something I've noticed for the past 5-7 years. It's just become more frustrating in the past 5 months now that sex is "off the table." 

Her response to my frustration is usually, "I should be able to wear whatever I want to bed without feeling like I have to have sex."


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## I'mAllIn (Oct 20, 2011)

We both sleep in the nude every night, so it doesn't necessarily mean I want sex. However, I really think that it's at least partially because we sleep in the nude that we do have sex just about every night. If I want to insure that we have particularly hot sex I wear lingerie, if I want to insure he gets the message that he has totally p!ssed me off then I come to bed in pajamas. 
I guess to determine whether your wife is being a tease we'd need to know what she usually wears to bed.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

I'm not sure I could say she has a consistent thing she wears to bed. It's a pretty wide range. Shorts and tank-top, full sweats, to just whatever she was wearing during the day minus her bra.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

If I wear something like that or nothing at all usually means I'm looking for some nookie. 

Just seems cruel to know you arent really having sex and then dangle it in your face like you could be having this but oh no you won't.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

daffodilly said:


> And that's fine, if you are having sex on a somewhat regular basis. But you can tell her if she is completely pulling sex off the table, knowing you want and need it, and you are complying, then out of respect and fairness she should make some sacrifices too.
> 
> Ask her if she were to forbid her children to eat cookies, would she wolf down a box of chips ahoy in front of them?


I have basically done this. And in all fairness it's not every night that she comes to bed in this way. Maybe she does just forget, but sometimes I swear she searches out the sexiest thong she has and puts that on, then tells me she couldn't find anything else to wear. Crawls into bed, rolls over and goes to sleep. 

After I wipe up the drool I go downstairs and watch some TV until things "settle down."


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Take it from a two year clinically sexless husband (7 times in 24 months)...Doesn't sound healthy at all... just my 2 cents

Won't get better without YOU doing something about it.
Its a slippery slope...better nip it in the bud quick!

Why the sex vacation? Has she said exactly the reason. That should be the least she can do for you.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Over the 13 year marriage I'd say it's something I've noticed for the past 5-7 years. It's just become more frustrating in the past 5 months now that sex is "off the table."
> 
> Her response to my frustration is usually, "I should be able to wear whatever I want to bed without feeling like I have to have sex."


Google "sh1t tests" or "fitness tests", and see if this fits. Otherwise she's decided that what she does is nothing at all to do with you, despite being married and in the same house.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

A little extra insight.

Her mother was very controlling and it has left my wife very sensitive to anybody telling her what to wear. It absolutely drives her crazy. 

So we have had issues in our marriage where she got offended from me asking her to wear something sexy and now me asking her to not wear something sexy (although if we were having sex I'd be fine with it). 

While I'm here...is it controlling to ask your wife to wear something sexy to bed or if we're going on a romantic trip? I don't force her to wear these things and everything she has is something she bought. I don't see the harm in saying "For our trip I was hoping you'd bring xyz."


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I went back and read your other post.

What is the reason why your wife said she wanted the sex 'hiatus'?

Her request for that, along with her removal of her wedding ring, along with this (which could be interpreted as either uncaring or even malicious/cruel), makes me wonder if she has been, is currently, or wants to be 'on the prowl' - and for someone other than you.

Do you have any reasons to suspect, or other activities she has been doing, that would make you think she is stepping out?

I would do some clandestine investigating if I were you.

And, I would not tolerate either the sex 'hiatus' or this 'teasing'. I agree with Sawney, to get over to the Men's Clubhouse and start reading through the sticky at the top focusing on the fitness testing.

Best wishes.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> A little extra insight.
> 
> Her mother was very controlling and it has left my wife very sensitive to anybody telling her what to wear. It absolutely drives her crazy.
> 
> ...


No, it's not controlling. Husbands should be able to ask their wives for things like this, and good wives will more than likely happily oblige or suggest something else intriguing. Asking is a whole bunch different than demanding. 

Go here and take this assessment: No More Mr. Nice Guy! - Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment

What's your score?


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Take it from a two year clinically sexless husband (7 times in 24 months)...Doesn't sound healthy at all... just my 2 cents
> 
> Won't get better without YOU doing something about it.
> Its a slippery slope...better nip it in the bud quick!
> ...


How would you "nip it in the bud" considering her issues with feeling controlled when it comes to what she wears. For now I've just started sleeping in the guest room. Probably not the best solution.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> No, it's not controlling. Husbands should be able to ask their wives for things like this, and good wives will more than likely happily oblige or suggest something else intriguing. Asking is a whole bunch different than demanding.
> 
> Go here and take this assessment: No More Mr. Nice Guy! - Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment
> 
> What's your score?


Thank you for your insight. I will have to take that Self-assessment. 

So would you say by wearing something sexy to bed while sex is shut down, she's messing with me?


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> A little extra insight.
> 
> Her mother was very controlling and it has left my wife very sensitive to anybody telling her what to wear. It absolutely drives her crazy.
> 
> ...


Her mother may have been controlling but you aren't forcing her to wear anything you only ask. It's not like you pull some clothes out slap them on the bed and say here put this on now. 

No its not unreasonable or controlling for a husband to ask his wife to bring certain items/clothes. My husband does and well so do I if there is something I really enjoy seeing him in


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Thank you for your insight. I will have to take that Self-assessment.
> 
> So would you say by wearing something sexy to bed while sex is shut down, she's messing with me?


Hell yes. I would say she is completely messing with you if sex if def off the table.


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## I'mAllIn (Oct 20, 2011)

roymcavoy said:


> I like your style. That would be fairly easy to "read" -- even for idiots like me!


I'm a direct kinda gal, I'm willing to draw him a frickin" picture if it gets me what I want


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I went back and read your other post.
> 
> What is the reason why your wife said she wanted the sex 'hiatus'?
> 
> ...


I did post some more of my story in the Men's Club House and I read the Sticky by MEH.

Basically the reason for the sex hiatus is resentment. At least that is what she has shared with me. She just can't get past some stuff (no one BIG thing, just little stuff that adds up) and she can't be emotionally connected with me while she feels that way and without that connection she doesn't feel sexually attracted to me.

She says she doesn't wear her ring anymore because she has gained weight and it's too tight. It would cost $100 to get it resized and she didn't want to spend the money on that.

I don't believe she is stepping out, at least not literally. She seems like she has emotionally stepped out. I have looked through FB and email history and checked her phone a few times but I don't see any red flags there.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Thank you for your insight. I will have to take that Self-assessment.
> 
> So would you say by wearing something sexy to bed while sex is shut down, she's messing with me?


Yes, I would.

And not 'messing with you' in the nice way one wants to be 'messed around' with.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

And, I'm not sure I would move out of the bedroom like you did. More likely invite her to move out of the bedroom since she doesn't want to participate in one of the most important aspects of being married.

And so, what are her plans for trying to work through this? Is she doing anything to help resolve the issues? Or is she expecting you to just 'tow the line'? The stalemate needs to be broken.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Thank you for your insight. I will have to take that Self-assessment.
> 
> So would you say by wearing something sexy to bed while sex is shut down, she's messing with me?


I would certainly say that, my poor dear. Sending mixed messages is immature and cruel. Like parading, "Look what you CAN'T HAVE!!"

I sleep nude too, but if I have lingerie on, it is clear signal to my husband. I don't even have to say a word.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> I would certainly say that, my poor dear. Sending mixed messages is immature and cruel. Like parading, "Look what you CAN'T HAVE!!"


FYD, I don't think she's mixing messages at all - she's plainly making it clear that none of her charms are available to him.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> And, I'm not sure I would move out of the bedroom like you did. More likely invite her to move out of the bedroom since she doesn't want to participate in one of the most important aspects of being married.
> 
> And so, what are her plans for trying to work through this? Is she doing anything to help resolve the issues? Or is she expecting you to just 'tow the line'? The stalemate needs to be broken.


We have been to MC and she has gone to IC but that stopped a few months ago. She says she just needs to process the hurt. It seems all internal so I don't really have any idea what she is doing or what, if any, progress she has made. When I ask about it it's very vague and she doesn't say much.

One of my friends suggested I might be coming off as a jerk by sleeping in a different room because I'm sending the message that if we can't have sex then I don't want to be with you. That's not how I feel or the message I want to send.

The thing is none of this would matter if sex wasn't such an issue. I would gladly cuddle her naked body while we feel asleep if I was confident that she could be in the mood tomorrow or maybe the next day. It's when it's not even an option that it seems so unfair.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I went back and read your other post.
> 
> What is the reason why your wife said she wanted the sex 'hiatus'?
> 
> ...


I agree no wedding ring HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

My wife and always sleep in the nude so I have different barometers.

I know she doesn't want it when she's wearing the "no sex shorts" to bed.
They're actually very sexy tight little short shorts but I know what they mean.

I know she intends to have sex when she wears her hair up or in a ponytail when she comes to bed.
The hair gets in her way during oral.

Any other time is fair game either way and there's never any rejection involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

I / we sleep nude or just in undies most nights, except cooold winter nights. If I have pajamas on, that means no sex tonight, if its that time or whatever. Most nights we r nude though.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

tacoma said:


> My wife and always sleep in the nude so I have different barometers.
> 
> I know she doesn't want it when she's wearing the "no sex shorts" to bed.
> They're actually very sexy tight little short shorts but I know what they mean.
> ...


I hate you!

Some guys get all the luck.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

bellamaxjoy said:


> I / we sleep nude or just in undies most nights, except cooold winter nights. If I have pajamas on, that means no sex tonight, if its that time or whatever. Most nights we r nude though.


I guess it does come down to just having a clear understanding of each others expectations. I can see that it's not fair to say that if someone sleeps in the nude they must be expecting sex but in our case it feels like it would. It feels like everything is confused now, I'm all turned around and I don't know whats what. I know she's teasing me! I've told her that but she makes me feel like I'm stupid for even suggesting such a thing. Then tells me of course it doesn't mean anything and If I wasn't so sex crazed I wouldn't think stuff like that.

Once while she was getting dressed for bed she took out a thong and twirled it on her finger and made suggestive sounds. I said, "Yeah, baby, wear that!" She gave me a dirty look, threw back in the draw and picked out some old granny panties. 
WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> No, it's not controlling. Husbands should be able to ask their wives for things like this, and good wives will more than likely happily oblige or suggest something else intriguing. Asking is a whole bunch different than demanding.
> 
> Go here and take this assessment: No More Mr. Nice Guy! - Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment
> 
> What's your score?


SWEET MOSES! I scored a 35! Now would be the perfect time to PANIC!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Quick background. I've been married 13 years. Sex has been OK throughout the marriage, with me usually wanting more and her wanting a little less, but we make it work. However, in the past year things have really gone downhill. Five months ago she asked if we could take a break from sex. We have only had sex 2 twice since then.
> 
> So here is my issue/question. Sometimes my wife will come to bed in the nude or wearing a thong or nightie. But when I make a move she seems annoyed and doesn't want to do anything sexual. When I ask her why she came to bed dressed the way she did she says it doesn't mean anything.
> 
> My question for the ladies is if you come to bed naked or wearing something suggestive are you trying to send a signal or does it really not mean anything? Is she messing/teasing with me or am I over analyzing this? I know that when I sleep in the nude she always assumes I'm looking for action.


Ok, so she says "lets take a break from sex" like it's a diet and you need to cut the cake and icecream out. Really? how about asking if she needs a more permanent break from the marriage. 

I think for sure there's something else going on, and talking from experience she is on the verge of engaging in an affair, or is actually in one. Most women will not have sex with their husband and OM, they see it as a form of betrayl, how ironic. Also it hard for women to be in love with two men at the same time.

Take a hard look at other behaviors, do some checking around.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Balance:

Her need to a "sexual vacation" is definitely within bounds of anyone to ask their spouse as we cannot control what they do or don't do with their bodies.

Did you sit down and have this frank conversation with her, or was this a 1 sided boundary with her saying she's vacating? She needs to understand that within marriage, you have to be considerate of each other and there need to be provisions made for you in order to agree to this particular type of arrangement, unless she would rather Divorce. 

Marriage is tough for everyone involved. We, of course, need to be flexible and work through things with our spouses, but this needs to be a joint effort with an objective and a time frame in mind. Open-ended vacations shouldn't be tolerated unless she is physically or mentally incapacitated by no fault of her own. 

Read these books and decide where YOUR boundaries are. Make sure SHE understands them. MAN UP!

1 - No More Mr Nice Guy
2 - Hold onto your NUTZ
3 - Married Man's Sex Life Primer

You can also read 5 love languages and His Needs Her Needs, but in my opinion, those books really only make a difference if you are both engaged and following-thru with the exercises and vested in improving the marriage. the three books I mentioned are more about you being the man you ought to be and helping you improve what you can about yourself to make yourself a more appealing partner to your spouse (if they are still into you and the marriage) - or someone else down the road.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> SWEET MOSES! I scored a 35! Now would be the perfect time to PANIC!


No need to panic! 

There just needs to be a paradigm shift in your way of thinking. See, you need to go from thinking that it's controlling and wrong to ask a wife to wear lingerie to being able to see that it's actually perfectly acceptable and desirable to do so. From thinking it's okay for your wife to tease you and denigrate your sexual desires to understanding that it is perfectly healthy and acceptable for you to have and express those desires.

Library Time ! 

http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Go spend some time over commiserating with the fellas in the Men's Clubhouse, Balance. Your paradigm is "out of balance", and needs to be
re-balanced. 

Best wishes.


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## Prometheus Pyrphoros (Jun 16, 2011)

In general, women like control. They like manipulation. They are from a planet other than this earth. She probably does this as a tease, yes. She wants to be felt desirable but at the same time empowered by denying you the fruit. Give her a taste of her own medicine, just chill it out. You're a man, no woman should have power over you, even your wife. 

Mine wears sexy stuff, but just because she wants to arouse me so I would bang her. Tough luck. I really don't put up with games and womanese and methinks she doesn't even try to.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Once while she was getting dressed for bed she took out a thong and twirled it on her finger and made suggestive sounds. I said, "Yeah, baby, wear that!" She gave me a dirty look, threw back in the draw and picked out some old granny panties.
> WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?


That she is deliberately belittling your sexual interest in her. Making the point that she has the goods but that they are definitely NOT for your enjoyment.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> No need to panic!
> 
> There just needs to be a paradigm shift in your way of thinking. See, you need to go from thinking that it's controlling and wrong to ask a wife to wear lingerie to being able to see that it's actually perfectly acceptable and desirable to do so. From thinking it's okay for your wife to tease you and denigrate your sexual desires to understanding that it is perfectly healthy and acceptable for you to have and express those desires.
> .


By the sound of things they both need a paradigm shift. Either that or a size nine!


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

BTW, take your bed back - she wanted the vacation, not you. Don't change your sleep style to as not offend her or remove the probes from below. Her vacation - she figures out how to avoid IT. And we all know what IT is. 

Life goes on. So should you.

And also - I've noticed with my W and I think that others have too - do you ask your wife for sex all the time (or even part of it)? If so - it turns out that it is pathetic of us to do so. 

We signal our intent without the asking - they may push back a bit - but I can guarantee its one of the biggest SH*T tests around to see if you are man enough to stand up to them.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Once while she was getting dressed for bed she took out a thong and twirled it on her finger and made suggestive sounds. I said, "Yeah, baby, wear that!" She gave me a dirty look, threw back in the draw and picked out some old granny panties.
> WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?


That is totally awful! I don't even know your wife, but I'm thinking I don't like her much. 

You shoulda said when she got out the granny panties "Oh, baby! Those are even hotter!" then chased her down and pinned her to the ground and ....


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> That she is deliberately belittling your sexual interest in her. Making the point that she has the goods but that they are definitely NOT for your enjoyment.


:iagree:x10000000000

My husband might like some teasing but this is ridiculous. If i did this to him oh the pissy attitude he would have and in all honesty it would be a justifiable attitude. 

She seems to like wearing the sexy stuff and watching you jump at it like a hungry dog just to get slapped in the face with a newspaper saying "no, down boy"

It might be hard but I would just ignore whenever she wears this stuff. Maybe try showing no interest in what she wears sexy or not.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Balance:
> 
> Her need to a "sexual vacation" is definitely within bounds of anyone to ask their spouse as we cannot control what they do or don't do with their bodies.
> 
> ...


This is how the "sex hiatus" conversation went down. 
It was our 13 year anniversary. I planned a 2 1/2 day road trip along a scenic byway. We were going to just have a relaxing, spontaneous time of driving, antiquating and doing generally anything that caught our interest along the way. We had a nice time 

We had sex the first night but the second night she didn't seem interested. Physical contact was basically pats on the back like I was her brother. By the last day, driving home, I was in a sour mood. We started talking and I explained how hurt I felt, she shared how she didn't want to have all the pressure of sex. Lots of things were said but eventually she said she thought it would be best if we took a break from sex. I got pretty upset and we scheduled a session with the MC. The counselor thought it was an ok idea but of course it couldn't be open ended and we needed to have a set measure of progress. I agreed to this idea. But now we aren't going to MC and it is pretty open ended. 

We have talked a number of times since. I have explained that I am not ok with this arrangement and that it is hurting me. But she says she can't just change how she feels. She needs time and I can't force her to get over the resentment and be sexually attracted to me.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

square1 said:


> :iagree:x10000000000
> 
> My husband might like some teasing but this is ridiculous. If i did this to him oh the pissy attitude he would have and in all honesty it would be a justifiable attitude.
> 
> ...


Hard to ignore food when you are starving.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> She says she doesn't wear her ring anymore because she has gained weight and it's too tight. It would cost $100 to get it resized and she didn't want to spend the money on that.


Go get the ring resized and then ask her to wear it. If she won't, ask her if she wants to be married. The reaction will tell you a fair amount.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Hard to ignore food when you are starving.


May be hard but might be necessary. If you keep giving her that attention then she keeps the control.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

sounds like its time for a hard 180.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She's wants a break from sex, but wears sexy things obviously not for you. :scratchhead: I don't get it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> She's wants a break from sex, but wears sexy things obviously not for you. :scratchhead: I don't get it.


My wife did the same thing...shaving wearing Victoria secret panties but never naked in bed. Mine at least always wears her ring as far as I can tell.

I think a 180 might be in order here. This is not normal she's manipulating you and torturing you. major fitness test?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> She's wants a break from sex, but wears sexy things obviously not for you. :scratchhead: I don't get it.


You're right, if you think about it in terms of sex, it doesn't work. If you think about it in terms of power and control, it starts to make more sense.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> No need to panic!
> 
> There just needs to be a paradigm shift in your way of thinking. See, you need to go from thinking that it's controlling and wrong to ask a wife to wear lingerie to being able to see that it's actually perfectly acceptable and desirable to do so. From thinking it's okay for your wife to tease you and denigrate your sexual desires to understanding that it is perfectly healthy and acceptable for you to have and express those desires.
> 
> ...


I'm going through "No More Mister Nice Guy" UGH!

Nice Guys don't like hearing how being a NIce Guy is not a good thing. 

Just got to muscle through it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Start masturbating every night when you go to bed (your bed...with or without her).


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Quick background. I've been married 13 years. Sex has been OK throughout the marriage, with me usually wanting more and her wanting a little less, but we make it work. However, in the past year things have really gone downhill. Five months ago she asked if we could take a break from sex. We have only had sex 2 twice since then.
> 
> So here is my issue/question. Sometimes my wife will come to bed in the nude or wearing a thong or nightie. But when I make a move she seems annoyed and doesn't want to do anything sexual. When I ask her why she came to bed dressed the way she did she says it doesn't mean anything.
> 
> My question for the ladies is if you come to bed naked or wearing something suggestive are you trying to send a signal or does it really not mean anything? Is she messing/teasing with me or am I over analyzing this? I know that when I sleep in the nude she always assumes I'm looking for action.


First of all, I think the sex issue is much bigger than how she dresses when she comes to bed. Is everything else OK in your marriage? Does she feel loved by you? Is there any affection at all?

As for the original question, we both sleep in the nude so I can't answer that, but I usually don't wait for her to initiate. Many women are responders not initiators. She does some, but I don't wait for it. It is rare she turns me down and when she does, there is a physical reason she can't because she deals with chronic pain. Because of that, it is almost amazing we enjoy it as often as we do. When she does initiate it is VERY obvious!!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> You're right, if you think about it in terms of sex, it doesn't work. *If you think about it in terms of power and control, it starts to make more sense*.


Well, in that case, it's really messed up. However, I don't know the whole entire story...lol.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

romantic_guy said:


> First of all, I think the sex issue is much bigger than how she dresses when she comes to bed. Is everything else OK in your marriage? Does she feel loved by you? Is there any affection at all?
> 
> As for the original question, we both sleep in the nude so I can't answer that, but I usually don't wait for her to initiate. Many women are responders not initiators. She does some, but I don't wait for it. It is rare she turns me down and when she does, there is a physical reason she can't because she deals with chronic pain. Because of that, it is almost amazing we enjoy it as often as we do. When she does initiate it is VERY obvious!!


I'd say things aren't OK in the marriage. There is very little physical affection. Little side hug when I come home and maybe a cuddle on the couch while watching TV at the end of the day. Some days a little more but mostly thats it. It's been better but thats where we've been the last 5 months.

She seems to have a really hard time explaining how she feels. Even the MC had a hard time getting her to open up. If I had to guess I'd say she would say, "I feel loved some of the time."


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Start masturbating every night when you go to bed (your bed...with or without her).


Alrighty, don't mind if I do.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Alrighty, don't mind if I do.


Been there do that sometimes don't care if she wakes up


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Alrighty, don't mind if I do.


Make sure you grab one of her socks for the "Gland Finale!"

Or a pair of the underwear she ISN'T wearing.

I don't like it when people play games - and she's clearly playing one with you.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Been there do that sometimes don't care if she wakes up


Trying2figureitout, did you do the "No more Mr. Nice Guy?" If so, was it helpful?


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Make sure you grab one of her socks for the "Gland Finale!"
> 
> Or a pair of the underwear she ISN'T wearing.
> 
> I don't like it when people play games - and she's clearly playing one with you.


Funny thing is she doesn't seem to mind. I'v done this before when she was half asleep and she'll mutter something like, "yeah, baby, do it." Sometimes she will even join in. I just never know when I've crossed the line into an area she is uncomfortable with. The lines are all blurred and confusing and she seems to be the only one that knows what is OK.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Funny thing is she doesn't seem to mind. I'v done this before when she was half asleep and she'll mutter something like, "yeah, baby, do it." Sometimes she will even join in. I just never know when I've crossed the line into an area she is uncomfortable with. The lines are all blurred and confusing and she seems to be the only one that knows what is OK.


Why should she get to decide where the boundaries are?

Not that I'd set a boundary against being naked in bed...that's kind of backwards...

The whole thing is just backwards.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> While I'm here...is it controlling to ask your wife to wear something sexy to bed or if we're going on a romantic trip? I don't force her to wear these things and everything she has is something she bought. I don't see the harm in saying "For our trip I was hoping you'd bring xyz."



I don't think it is controlling at all to ask...only to insist. I think my wife looks really hot (especially for 55) and I am always asking her to dress sexy. I love seeing her in a pair of tight little short shorts...she has the perfect little body for it. If she is uncomfortable doing so because of where we are going, she just tells me and it is OK.


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

You should crawl in bed in a man thong or naked. Tell her good night, turn over and go to sleep. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

ARF said:


> You should crawl in bed in a man thong or naked. Tell her good night, turn over and go to sleep.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tried it. She didn't care. Just makes me feel even more unwanted.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Funny thing is she doesn't seem to mind. I'v done this before when she was half asleep and she'll mutter something like, "yeah, baby, do it." Sometimes she will even join in. I just never know when I've crossed the line into an area she is uncomfortable with. The lines are all blurred and confusing and she seems to be the only one that knows what is OK.


Did this occur during this little "dry spell / fitness testing" period?

That actually sounds like a much better result than being completely rejected.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> While I'm here...is it controlling to ask your wife to wear something sexy to bed or if we're going on a romantic trip? I don't force her to wear these things and everything she has is something she bought. I don't see the harm in saying "For our trip I was hoping you'd bring xyz."


Oh dear. There's obviously a lot more going on than what's apparent in this thread.

To answer just this question though - that is not controlling. When my husband says something like that, I feel desired and turned-on that he's thinking of me in that certain garment. However to nitpick, your sentence is actually a bit "Nice Guy" as is referred to around here. Hearing something more like "You look freakn hot in your garter belt and those black heels. (maybe something a bit explicit here) Pack them." Would certainly not only get me packing that item but would also have me eager for when I could wear them during the trip. A small point but just sayin.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> This is how the "sex hiatus" conversation went down.
> It was our 13 year anniversary. I planned a 2 1/2 day road trip along a scenic byway. We were going to just have a relaxing, spontaneous time of driving, antiquating and doing generally anything that caught our interest along the way. We had a nice time
> 
> We had sex the first night but the second night she didn't seem interested. Physical contact was basically pats on the back like I was her brother. By the last day, driving home, I was in a sour mood. We started talking and I explained how hurt I felt, she shared how *she didn't want to have all the pressure of sex*. Lots of things were said but eventually she said she thought it would be best if we took a break from sex. I got pretty upset and we scheduled a session with the MC. The counselor thought it was an ok idea but of course it couldn't be open ended and we needed to have a set measure of progress. I agreed to this idea. But now we aren't going to MC and it is pretty open ended.
> ...


I can see how hurtful and confusing this would be to you. I'm sorry for that.

Why is sex pressure to her though?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Trying2figureitout, did you do the "No more Mr. Nice Guy?" If so, was it helpful?


I've read most of them...made it about 1/2 through NMMNG... It has the some good points that's where I got the celibacy idea from.

I do think the celibacy helped knock a few bricks out...followed up with the reality check and now a hard 180... so my wife has been hit hard in the last month and a half (All right around year 2 mark) . All this after 6 months of nothing but personal improvement. Her head must be spinning. Thats what she gets for letting this drag on two years!

Another book set to try... Google Calle Zorro lots of good stuff. Even his paid stuff is worth it.
You will learn females minds inside and out with that set. I feel totally prepared for dating if need be.

My whole goal is to affect change and not let sexlessness fester.

Good Luck!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> FYD, I don't think she's mixing messages at all - she's plainly making it clear that none of her charms are available to him.



She _said_ no sex was going to occur, yet her actions tell another story.

I don't understand why a wife would wear lingerie if she didn't want sex. Lingerie serves a purpose, no?


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> She _said_ no sex was going to occur, yet her actions tell another story.
> 
> I don't understand why a wife would wear lingerie if she didn't want sex. Lingerie serves a purpose, no?


Maybe her lingerie has a lot of pockets cause you can never have too many pockets. One for tissues, change,her drivers license etc. I know if i had lingerie with an abundance of pockets I would wear it regardless if i wanted to send the "I want sex" signal.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Oh dear. There's obviously a lot more going on than what's apparent in this thread.
> 
> To answer just this question though - that is not controlling. When my husband says something like that, I feel desired and turned-on that he's thinking of me in that certain garment. However to nitpick, your sentence is actually a bit "Nice Guy" as is referred to around here. Hearing something more like "You look freakn hot in your garter belt and those black heels. (maybe something a bit explicit here) Pack them." Would certainly not only get me packing that item but would also have me eager for when I could wear them during the trip. A small point but just sayin.


It's hard to sum up a relationship in a few posts. Although I think I do have a Nice Guy thing going on, I wouldn't always ask her in such a passive way. "Throw something sexy on, baby, we're going out." Is also something I would say.



heartsbeating said:


> I can see how hurtful and confusing this would be to you. I'm sorry for that.
> 
> Why is sex pressure to her though?


I think it started to feel like pressure for her because she was so resentful she was not interested in a sexual relationship. In her words she just wanted me to, "back off a little while she processed the hurt she was feeling."


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Did this occur during this little "dry spell / fitness testing" period?
> 
> That actually sounds like a much better result than being completely rejected.


Yes, it is much better than being completely rejected. And often I will take it over nothing, but sometimes I wish it could be more and that is when she acts like I'm crossing the line.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

square1 said:


> Maybe her lingerie has a lot of pockets cause you can never have too many pockets. One for tissues, change,her drivers license etc. I know if i had lingerie with an abundance of pockets I would wear it regardless if i wanted to send the "I want sex" signal.


:lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Sounds like one of those late night infomercials.....The Pocketed Thong!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

square1 said:


> Maybe her lingerie has a lot of pockets cause you can never have too many pockets. One for tissues, change,her drivers license etc. I know if i had lingerie with an abundance of pockets I would wear it regardless if i wanted to send the "I want sex" signal.


The visuals of this just about choked me. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> :lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> Sounds like one of those late night infomercials.....The Pocketed Thong!


Sounds like a million dollar idea to me you might want to go get a patent. Although depending on pocket placement there is the risk of creating a buldge and looking like a trans sexual.

"No that's not a c*** its just my lipstick"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

square1 said:


> Sounds like a million dollar idea to me you might want to go get a patent. Although depending on pocket placement there is the risk of creating a buldge and looking like a trans sexual.
> 
> "No that's not a c*** its just my lipstick"


:rofl::rofl: omg stop!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> It's hard to sum up a relationship in a few posts. Although I think I do have a Nice Guy thing going on, I wouldn't always ask her in such a passive way. "Throw something sexy on, baby, we're going out." Is also something I would say.


I know it's hard to sum up things in a relationship in a few posts. And I don't know about you, but I find when I start thinking about one aspect it invariably leads to another ....we have to select the main thing we're trying to communicate here or ask about. Yep, I get that. And again, yes I took your words literally. I like your going out statement. 



BALANCE said:


> I think it started to feel like pressure for her because she was so resentful she was not interested in a sexual relationship. In her words she just wanted me to, "back off a little while she processed the hurt she was feeling."


I'm sorry if I've totally missed this - but what is she resentful about? Maybe you both need to go back to basics. 

I feel just as puzzled as you by the whole "going to bed naked/lingerie but don't come near me" aspect. Anything I start writing to suggest, I've ended up backspacing because it all ends up confusing and feeling like mind-games.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

square1 said:


> Sounds like a million dollar idea to me you might want to go get a patent. Although depending on pocket placement there is the risk of creating a buldge and looking like a trans sexual.
> 
> "No that's not a c*** its just my lipstick"


I think I should get a portion of the proceeds because it's my thread.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> I know it's hard to sum up things in a relationship in a few posts. And I don't know about you, but I find when I start thinking about one aspect it invariably leads to another ....we have to select the main thing we're trying to communicate here or ask about. Yep, I get that. And again, yes I took your words literally. I like your going out statement.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I've totally missed this - but what is she resentful about? Maybe you both need to go back to basics.
> ...


I'm not really sure what she is resentful about. She's not very specific or it changes everytime I ask. Mostly it just seems to be things I've said or attitudes I've had about things that she did not like. She kept it too herself and it built up over time until it became this huge resentment towards me.


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## adv (Feb 26, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Hearing something more like "You look freakn hot in your garter belt and those black heels. (maybe something a bit explicit here) Pack them." Would certainly not only get me packing that item but would also have me eager for when I could wear them during the trip. A small point but just sayin.


It's some of those small points that some of us men look for and remember for future use.


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## adv (Feb 26, 2011)

square1 said:


> Sounds like a million dollar idea to me you might want to go get a patent. Although depending on pocket placement there is the risk of creating a buldge and looking like a trans sexual.
> 
> "No that's not a c*** its just my lipstick"


F'ing hilarious


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> I'm not really sure what she is resentful about. She's not very specific or it changes everytime I ask. Mostly it just seems to be things I've said or attitudes I've had about things that she did not like. She kept it too herself and it built up over time until it became this huge resentment towards me.


Don't worry about it even if they tell you...you'll think you can't be serious! The stuff my wife listed was total bs for the most part and so long ago it was crazy. Some stuff I own up to but only about 50% from my own perspective...altough hers is all that counts... 2 years later

Be glad you don't know..it'd just make you angrier. As in you are willing to make my life hell over that?????????


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## adv (Feb 26, 2011)

I suggest a hard 180. What are you getting from your wife now that you couldn't get from any stranger, with the exception of less teasing.

To me it sounds like your wife doesn't care about your needs and marginalizes them to the point of making you feel ashamed of wanting you own wife! The saddest thing about this situation is if you don't take control and make it change, your wife will continue to make sure you're needs are second to hers in everything until one or both of you breaks (affair).


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> She _said_ no sex was going to occur, yet her actions tell another story.
> 
> I don't understand why a wife would wear lingerie if she didn't want sex. Lingerie serves a purpose, no?


You're right - it makes no sense, _if you look at it from the perspective of sex_. But like I said before, look at this from a perspective of power and control and it starts to add up. She's sending the message that she is the controller of his sexuality - that she can arouse him but determine that he has no sexual contact with her. It isn't about sex, it's about control.


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## adv (Feb 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> You're right - it makes no sense, _if you look at it from the perspective of sex_. But like I said before, look at this from a perspective of power and control and it starts to add up. She's sending the message that she is the controller of his sexuality - that she can arouse him but determine that he has no sexual contact with her. It isn't about sex, it's about control.


Very true


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Balance,
I can sum up the problem in your M and why your wife is doing this.
Your wife thinks you think of her a sexual object. All of her actions are fitness tests designed to prove and reinforce this belief. Her behavior on your anniversary trip, the sex hiatus, the wearing of thongs in bed.... All of it. And guess what? You are failing all these tests because you are showing that it matters to you. In her mind, she thinks he was mean to me over the last x years, and he still expects sex and treats me like all he cares about is sex.

Don't worry about controlling behavior. Worry about your own boundaries and enforcing them, and when doing so offer her a choice. Example. "Wife, I accepted a sex hiatus. I can't accept you coming to bed nude or in a thong. You are being a cruel c*tease. So,if you come to bed like this I am gong to assume the sex hiatus is over".

But bear in mind what I said in the first paragraph... You need to make her feel loved without feeling like a sex object to you.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Balance, given your other post in the Men's Clubhouse, this isn't a big surprise. At some point, it seems that she did begin to fixate on the belief that maybe you are objectifying her sexually, as Hicks suggested, but you really should realize that even justified resentment can take a life of its own over time. It can become an unhealthy fixation.

Its very interesting that you notice some definate nice guy tendencies. Others will disagree, but I think that unhealthy resentment really builds in an environment where the spouse feels empowered within their resentment. Where you are not firmly showing her that even in a healthy relationship, both partners fail, and she has missed your needs too. Her needs and resentment become the elevated, primary needs.

By moving out of the room, it has only supported the fact that she is in control, if this was intentional. If it was intentional, she wanted you to be aware that she was there, sexy, and there was nothing you could do about it. So, you avoided it.

Our marriage therapist pointed out a very applicable point here. As long as the relationship exists in such a state where her needs (and resentment) are elevated, then all of your actions to try to please her and move closer are symbolically like you moving upward, toward her, as a worshipper approaches the one they adore. She has to get to the place where she sees your needs as equal, and the focus is on mutual accountability. She needs to feel the same self-recriminations that you feel when you realize that you haven't always met her needs. The two of you must approach this on equal levels.

Of course, 180 and manning up can lead to a pivot. When it really hits her that she is in an elevated place within the relationship, a place where she put herself, it will get lonely.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Update:

Still not real sure how to balance, "Manning Up" with a 180. Can they work together?

Here is what I did last night (not saying it was the best thing, just felt like I had to do something). While watching TV she asked me how things were going in my world. I said pretty good, then casually said that I had decided the sex hiatus was over and that I was moving back to "my room." Still calm, I said, "If you feel uncomfortable with that you can sleep somewhere else." She said, "Are you expecting me to jump you right now?" I stumbled here a little and said, "I would be OK with that," then I realized that was a little too Nice Guy and just a distraction so I pressed on. I told her I expected our relationship (including the physical) to be a priority. If she does not want a sexual relationship with me anymore she is free to leave. I then got up and went to bed (11:30pm). At 1:15am she finally came up to bed. She asked, "Just to be clear are you saying you have to have sex tonight or I have to sleep someplace else?" I was a little caught off guard but said it did not have to be tonight but that I expected it to be a priority. She then got in bed and went to sleep.

This morning I was pleasant but not overly helpful and I acted like nothing happened. She was also nice and gave me a few small hugs and thanked me for the help in the morning.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

daffodilly said:


> Balance, she really sounds like a b#@ch. Sorry.
> 
> She doesn't want sex, wears sexy things to bed, flaunts sexy things at you then throws them in the drawer, says she has resentment but won't say what it is or even try to fix it.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your input. However, I did not start this thread to dis on my wife. I wanted a sounding board to see if how I was feeling synced with how others feel. So far it has been a good confidence booster for me. 

In the future please refrain from calling my wife names. My goal is to reconnect with the woman I love not try to find reasons to dislike her.

Thank you.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> I appreciate your input. However, I did not start this thread to dis on my wife. I wanted a sounding board to see if how I was feeling synced with how others feel. So far it has been a good confidence booster for me.
> 
> In the future please refrain from calling my wife names. My goal is to reconnect with the woman I love not try to find reasons to dislike her.
> 
> Thank you.


Balance that's what we all want isn't it? The other poster sometimes go off... don't take it personally he was trying to help.

have to have a thick skin around here I noticed.

I already said this and I'll say it again... you need to regain control and do a hard 180. Your wife needs to wonder, did I push him too far?

Its a way of getting respect and dignity back. Consider the 180 I think it's your best shot. Wait for her to ask whats up? then tell her in two short sentences an let her talk and listen.

Try it for a couple weeks and see what happens. Right now she has all the control start gaining it back... it works. I'm doing it now... my wife is responding. She's wondering right now.... Did I push him too far?

The good thing about a 180 is it is the last step... so in essence this might save you time.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

daffodilly said:


> Balance, she really sounds like a b#@ch. Sorry.





Trying2figureitout said:


> Balance that's what we all want isn't it? The other poster sometimes go off... don't take it personally he was trying to help.


I do appreciate the help and input. I just didn't want the thread to degrade into a place where we are just calling her names. It doesn't do me or her any good.

Daffodilly, the rest of your post had some good insights and I appreciate your willingness to help.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> I do appreciate the help and input. I just didn't want the thread to degrade into a place where we are just calling her names. It doesn't do me or her any good.
> 
> Daffodilly, the rest of your post had some good insights and I appreciate your willingness to help.


They did the same thing to my wife... to them shes evil and crazy yet I know better.

BTW standing up for your wife is attractive to her... do that more
Also standing up to your wife is also attractive to her.

Be the man. Stop letting your wife run the show... get control back.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Balance that's what we all want isn't it? The other poster sometimes go off... don't take it personally he was trying to help.
> 
> have to have a thick skin around here I noticed.
> 
> ...


Somehow this doesn't seem to work in my mind. I'm not sure there is a "too far" for her. She has told me in the past that she has hoped that I would just leave so she didn't have to deal with me anymore. 

I have, in essence, shut down for nearly two weeks before and she never even seemed to notice. Granted at that time I had not made some of the personal changes that I have recently. I would say right now I'm going for sort of an aloof, Man Up thing.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BALANCE said:


> Somehow this doesn't seem to work in my mind. I'm not sure there is a "too far" for her. She has told me in the past that she has hoped that I would just leave so she didn't have to deal with me anymore.
> 
> I have, in essence, shut down for nearly two weeks before and she never even seemed to notice. Granted at that time I had not made some of the personal changes that I have recently. I would say right now I'm going for sort of an aloof, Man Up thing.


Have you investigated for the possibility of an E/P affair? If so what have you done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Update:
> 
> Still not real sure how to balance, "Manning Up" with a 180. Can they work together?
> 
> ...


Balance ~

Hate to inundate you with stuff to read and contemplate, but the following is very good in helping you to think about and set your own boundaries:

Amazon.com: Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men (9780979054402): Wayne M. Levine: Books

And, well - good for you on how you handled this last night. I am proud of you for doing that and regaining your position in the marital bed. You need to let her know that this isn't really about sex, per se - but it is all about her not caring to prioritize anything that is important to you.

Keep that Husker spirit alive.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

daffodilly said:


> My sincerest apologies, Balance....I was way out of line.  Just got really annoyed on your behalf since personally I can't stand head games and you seem to genuinely want to make an effort to fix things. But I really should think before I type!!!
> 
> I think it's fair to ask her what she is doing with her "time" to heal her resentment. Point out you are trying to do whatever you can to improve things, but it's a two way street.


Apology accepted. Thank you.

The trick for me is mixing this with the Man Up concept. She's had two years+ of being openly resentful. When does the "time" just become a get out of jail card? At some point I'm moving forward she can join if she wants.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> Somehow this doesn't seem to work in my mind. I'm not sure there is a "too far" for her. *She has told me in the past that she has hoped that I would just leave so she didn't have to deal with me anymore.*
> 
> I have, in essence, shut down for nearly two weeks before and she never even seemed to notice. Granted at that time I had not made some of the personal changes that I have recently. I would say right now I'm going for sort of an aloof, Man Up thing.


Very hurtful thing for her to say to you.

I want to ask you sincerely so I can get perhaps a different viewpoint of her - what is it about your wife that you love?


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

daffodilly said:


> Just read this now...wow. I would definitely sit down and calmly ask her if she still wants a marriage. Maybe she is deliberately sabotaging things so you will leave, so she doesn't have to be the bad guy. Or maybe she's just speaking in the heat of the moment. Either way a comment like that warrants a serious conversation.


When asked directly if she still wants to be married she says, "yes." When asked about the future she still sees us together. My fault in this is that on two separate occasions I have talked about leaving. She now says that was just a power play on my part (she could be right) and I think she wants the power so she will just call my bluff. We do have to get past this power struggle.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Have you investigated for the possibility of an E/P affair? If so what have you done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have checked her phone, FB and emails. She works from home as a daycare provider. So she isn't out much on her own. There have never been any male friends that seemed suspicious and no missing time.

It's possible she is trying to be available/open to some extra, outside attention but I really haven't seen any evidence of an affair of any kind.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Very hurtful thing for her to say to you.
> 
> I want to ask you sincerely so I can get perhaps a different viewpoint of her - what is it about your wife that you love?


It's sort of cruel and unfair to sum somebody up in a few posts. If she was posting I'm sure I would sound like a total jerk.

She is caring, strong and beautiful. She is encouraging and always interested in hearing about my day. She can be fun and a little kinky. She's like the good girl that has a secret wild side. 

This doesn't really do her justice but that's what I've got right now.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BALANCE said:


> When asked directly if she still wants to be married she says, "yes." When asked about the future she still sees us together. My fault in this is that on two separate occasions I have talked about leaving. She now says that was just a power play on my part (she could be right) and I think she wants the power so she will just call my bluff. We do have to get past this power struggle.


Be as up front honest and authentic With her as you are here. Tell her that you agree that it may have been a power play and that you are sorry that you did it. Tell her you said out of anger and fruatration without realizing that those words would destroy something very valuable to you. Promise her never to say it again unless you mean it and saw no other solution. Ask her to make the same promise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Balance ~
> 
> Hate to inundate you with stuff to read and contemplate, but the following is very good in helping you to think about and set your own boundaries:
> 
> ...


Ugh!

I don't know if I can handle this much personal overhaul in such a short amount of time. 

I did realize something interesting though. When I was in IC he focused a lot on helping me love myself for who I was, and that I didn't need my wife's love to be whole. It was very confusing for me at first but now I see that it fits with the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" idea. So some of the ground work is there I just need to give myself a good refresher course.

I will take a look at that book too. Thank you.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> It's sort of cruel and unfair to sum somebody up in a few posts. If she was posting I'm sure I would sound like a total jerk.
> 
> She is caring, strong and beautiful. She is encouraging and always interested in hearing about my day. *She can be fun and a little kinky. She's like the good girl that has a secret wild side*.
> 
> This doesn't really do her justice but that's what I've got right now.


Back in the days when you guys were having sex, were you more passive with her? Do you think that you were able to fulfill that wild side of her?

I still am curious about the resentments - big and small. If they are small, is she saying that there are constant daily things you do that irritate her - and how are you supposed to address those things if she won't make mention of them? Was this discussed in those MC sessions that you had at one point?

Do you think that she would be willing to go back to MC with you? I think that you should definitely continue working on 'manning up' - regaining your own self-respect and sense of worth outside of your wife is one of the cornerstones of being a healthy individual. I also think you should definitely work on determining what exactly are your personal boundaries in your relationship. But, I also think that you two may need some professional strength help to break the unhealthy dynamic you have going on.

Best wishes.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

You say that she talks dirty to you sometimes when you masturbate beside her. You say she is sometimes kinky. That she has a wild side.

This is just a guess, but I think that her wearing nothing or a sexy thong is her telling you she wants you to man up. To take her! Not to rape her, but to be aggressive. 

Have you talked dirty to her when she comes to bed like that? Tell her how hard it makes you. Tell her what it makes you want to do to her. Maybe hide a vibrator in bed (the magic wand comes to mind) and when she shows up naked, use it to start massaging her back. Tease her with it.

Make sure she knows she is in a sexual relationship. That if you haven't been intimate for a week and she comes to bed in a thong or naked, that you are going to be all over her.

Don't give up too easily. Don't take the first No and stop. Persist! 

My wife is like this sometimes. If I persist, and hug her and caress her, she sometimes comes around. Often leads to our best sex!


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Back in the days when you guys were having sex, were you more passive with her? Do you think that you were able to fulfill that wild side of her?
> 
> I still am curious about the resentments - big and small. If they are small, is she saying that there are constant daily things you do that irritate her - and how are you supposed to address those things if she won't make mention of them? Was this discussed in those MC sessions that you had at one point?
> 
> ...


I probably do tend to be too boring. Also keep in mind when I say wild side that we are both coming from somewhat conservative backgrounds so it may not seem "Wild" to everybody. I've never really asked her if she felt fulfilled earlier in our marriage. She definitely seemed happier.

Most of the resentments that she has shared are things that I have said during arguments. The single biggest thing that kicked this cold spell off two years ago was an argument about whether or not we should have more kids. We have three now. I tried to be sensitive her wishes but I also tried to communicate how I was feeling. During the argument she shot down every reason I had for not wanting more kids. Things got a little nasty and I said some things I didn't really mean. I apologized the next day but she has never fully recovered from that.

Honestly the MC seemed a little confused too and during the sessions I was there I never heard my wife verbalize what it was she was so resentful about.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> You say that she talks dirty to you sometimes when you masturbate beside her. You say she is sometimes kinky. That she has a wild side.
> 
> This is just a guess, but I think that her wearing nothing or a sexy thong is her telling you she wants you to man up. To take her! Not to rape her, but to be aggressive.
> 
> ...


I used to persist and she would eventually get in the mood. She would even encourage me to just get things started.

However, now she has used the term "violated" when describing being "forced" to have sex with me when she did not feel emotionally connected. It kind of puts a damper on my motivation.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BALANCE said:


> Honestly the MC seemed a little confused too and during the sessions I was there I never heard my wife verbalize what it was she was so resentful about.


How can you conceivably be expected to understand or respond to the issues if she cannot or will not articulate what they are?

Given that you want to reconcile, why would this be remotely acceptable to you? 

What is her answer when you ask her the question, "Do you want to recover this marriage?"

Pay attention to whether she addresses the question, or simply seeks to blame-shift, deflect, redirect or dismiss the question.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> How can you conceivably be expected to understand or respond to the issues if she cannot or will not articulate what they are?
> 
> Given that you want to reconcile, why would this be remotely acceptable to you?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't call it "acceptable." I would call it, "what the hell else am I supposed to do?"


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> Ugh!
> 
> I don't know if I can handle this much personal overhaul in such a short amount of time.
> 
> ...


You know what - just wanted to commend you for being honest here. Manning Up is a process and will take time. The 180 - which I'm not real sure is appropriate here - is something you could do now.

Getting back in your own bed was a great first step.

The next time she says "so do you want to have sex tonight, or ???" - you're going to need a better answer!


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

BALANCE said:


> I used to persist and she would eventually get in the mood. She would even encourage me to just get things started.
> 
> However, now she has used the term "violated" when describing being "forced" to have sex with me when she did not feel emotionally connected. It kind of puts a damper on my motivation.


I understand. I sometimes persist and still get rejected. It is difficult to read when she needs to be pushed and when she really wants to be left alone.

But I find the reward, worth the effort. And I have gotten better at reading when to not bother. 

I have the advantage over you in that when my wife comes to bed naked or in just a thong, I know there will be no rejection.

Seriously, tell her that her wearing nothing or only a thong is teasing you. That it isn't fair to you for her to do this and then reject you. 

I see no reason why she would 'need' to wear only a thong to bed or to 'need' to sleep in the nude. Make sure she is aware that doing so, may result in her feeling 'violated'. 

She has a choice and once you tell her that her actions are 'teasing' you, she has no right to complain about any advances you make.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

balance said:


> at 1:15am she finally came up to bed. She asked, *"just to be clear are you saying you have to have sex tonight or i have to sleep someplace else?" *i was a little caught off guard but said it did not have to be tonight but that i expected it to be a priority.


*ladies and gents - what's the magic answer here?*


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> You know what - just wanted to commend you for being honest here. Manning Up is a process and will take time. The 180 - which I'm not real sure is appropriate here - is something you could do now.
> 
> Getting back in your own bed was a great first step.
> 
> The next time she says "so do you want to have sex tonight, or ???" - you're going to need a better answer!


Thank you for the encouragement.

I know I kind of dropped the ball on that one. I should have prepped a little better for the moment. I just kind of felt the courage to say something and went with it. 

Any specific suggestions on what I could have said there?

Now that I have started this ball rolling I have to follow through. Since I said the sex hiatus is over I'm not really sure how to handle it. Should I just tell her we're having sex this weekend and don't accept a "no?"


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> T Should I just tell her we're having sex this weekend and don't accept a "no?"


What's your plan if she *does* say no and keeps on saying it?


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> What's your plan if she *does* say no and keeps on saying it?


I was hoping somebody here would give me a few pointers.ray:

I could very well be in over my head.

Of course I would decide to do this right as I'm going into a 5 day weekend.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

nice777guy said:


> *ladies and gents - what's the magic answer here?*


Answer: "Neither. Go to sleep." It's another sh!t test.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BALANCE said:


> I wouldn't call it "acceptable." I would call it, "what the hell else am I supposed to do?"


Decide what is, and isn't acceptable. Those are your boundaries.
You jumped to your wife's defense when you felt another poster was being disrespectful towards her.

Now apply that same behavior to her ... about you.

Can you do that, or do your guts turn inside out at the thought of throwing down with her?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The best response for those open ended, bullsh!t questions that are meant to do nothing more than throw you off balance is to diffuse them, ideally with humor ... or ignore them.

What you shouldn't do, is take them seriously and try to give her a serious answer. She isn't looking for a serious answer, she's merely setting you up to be a verbal punching bag.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> The best response for those open ended, bullsh!t questions that are meant to do nothing more than throw you off balance is to diffuse them, ideally with humor ... or ignore them.
> 
> What you shouldn't do, is take them seriously and try to give her a serious answer. She isn't looking for a serious answer, she's merely setting you up to be a verbal punching bag.


Silly thing is she normally gets tired pretty early so the fact that she didn't come up to bed until 1:15am means she was just trying to wait me out.


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Decide what is, and isn't acceptable. Those are your boundaries.
> You jumped to your wife's defense when you felt another poster was being disrespectful towards her.
> 
> Now apply that same behavior to her ... about you.
> ...


I'm not afraid of "throwing down" with her. I will be setting some boundaries with her tonight. My problem now is, if she is not willing to go along with the boundaries but I am not willing to give up on the marriage.

So if one of my boundaries is that she can not tease and wear sexy clothes to bed if she does not want sex but she does it anyway. What am I supposed to do? How do I enforce my set boundaries?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Your boundaries have to be strong. I would be all over her is she still came to bed with sexy clothes on. 

If she still pushes you away, you will need to be prepared to give up your marriage. Begin a 180. Start going out on your own or with buddies. Go to the gym. Work on yourself. Show her that you are moving on.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BALANCE said:


> I'm not afraid of "throwing down" with her. I will be setting some boundaries with her tonight. My problem now is, if she is not willing to go along with the boundaries but I am not willing to give up on the marriage.
> 
> So if one of my boundaries is that she can not tease and wear sexy clothes to bed if she does not want sex but she does it anyway. What am I supposed to do? How do I enforce my set boundaries?


:scratchhead:

This whole thing is just really, really weird.

So - speaking to everyone - is he really going to tell her that sex has to be a priority - but then ignore her offers for sex (no matter how $hitty) - and then set a boundary that she can't come to bed in lingerie and she isn't allowed to tease him sexually?

:scratchhead:

Or at some point, does he just go for broke and figure he has a naked woman in bed - messing with his head - and just put her over his knees? Could it really make the situation worse or more confusing?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> This whole thing is just really, really weird.
> 
> ...


I don't get the refusing sex part?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't get the refusing sex part?


You mean her refusal? 

Or his refusal - by saying "it needs to be a priority - just not tonight..." as she comes to bed naked at 1:15???

:scratchhead:

(no offense BAL - you probably did the right thing)


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> You mean her refusal?
> 
> Or his refusal - by saying "it needs to be a priority - just not tonight..." as she comes to bed naked at 1:15???
> 
> ...


Just to clarify she did not come to bed naked last night after I talked to her about making sex a priority. She didn't do any teasing. 

This thread has developed past the initial teasing question and maybe I should create a new one that focuses on my general marriage situation.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I can't speak for your wife, but if I get in bed naked it means that I want some action without asking for it. It works every time. 

If I need a break from sex, it's only for ONE day to recoup from the days prior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BALANCE (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks everybody for your responses and encouragement. Your insights regarding the initial teasing question gave me the confidence to begin the Man Up process. 

I will be sharing my boundaries with my wife tonight and I'll probably start a new thread in the Men's Clubhouse if anybody is interested in following my progress.

Again, thanks for all the help.

-BALANCE


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BALANCE said:


> I'm not afraid of "throwing down" with her. I will be setting some boundaries with her tonight. My problem now is, if she is not willing to go along with the boundaries* but I am not willing to give up on the marriage*.
> 
> So if one of my boundaries is that she can not tease and wear sexy clothes to bed if she does not want sex but she does it anyway. What am I supposed to do? How do I enforce my set boundaries?


Then it isn't a boundary. It's a 'hope'.

Do not set a boundary that you are not prepared to enforce. Because she WILL test them. That's the entire point.

Are you funny? Use humor.

I'm dead serious here ...

Mirror her. If she comes to bed naked, take off your clothes. If she says, "We're not having sex."
State: "Damn straight. I didn't give you permission anyway. Don't objectify me."
If she says "Why are you naked?"
Answer: "I'm hot."

If she comes to bed wearing a thong, take off what you're wearing and go put one of her thongs on. Or purchase one of your own for just that occasion. Yes ... they make male thongs. 
"You're right, these really are comfortable."

Point is ... shake things up. Throw her off. She has a pretty good idea of what she expects from you in terms of a reaction to her behavior. So ... simply react differently. If she laughs, fantastic! 

Remaining in the thong I leave to your discretion ...

If you can pull of hardass, then do that. You need to change the current dynamic. Because whether you want it to or not ... the current dynamic only has one possible outcome, and that is things getting worse.

How you should never respond is; 'kicked puppy'. That simply won't help you. If anything is like blood in the water to a shark.

Will keep an eye out for your new thread.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

BALANCE said:


> I was hoping somebody here would give me a few pointers.ray:
> 
> I could very well be in over my head.
> 
> Of course I would decide to do this right as I'm going into a 5 day weekend.


I really think you have to stress that there will be no more games, crossed signals, or resentment-based playing. Until the two of you can trust each other, things just need to be clear, and upfront. No more sex signals worn to bed unless she wants sex. For the five day weekend, why not challenge her again - does she want to make it work? If so, deal with the resentment later through marriage counseling, but promise her that you will put your best foot forward over the weekend and prove to her that you care for her needs. Sex can be a lower priority over the weekend, unless she initiates. You just focus on intimacy. Show her its real.

I think its important to show her that you can just focus on intimacy and her needs for a holiday weekend as your top priority, but don't be surprised if she catches on to the change, and you just take it from there. I'm speaking from the POV of a person in a marriage with a really strong sex life, where resentment exists. The thing that keeps sex from being infrequent, I believe, is that it is not the primary reason for spending time with my wife. She is.


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## ozwang (Aug 11, 2011)

my wife always sleeps with some form of clothes on, so if she's nude, that means 100% she wants to get it on. If she's wearing her sexy undies or a g-string....that means 90% she wants to get it on.

Im so lucky in my marriage that when my wife wants some, she is very vocal in telling me, along the lines of "im horny, can we have some sexing tonight". Wearing the sexy clothes to bed or nude is her way of hinting that its my turn to initiate tonight. If she's nude and i dont make a move after a few minutes after getting into bed, she jumps on top anyway...

You're a stronger man than me for making it through these kind of games and teasing, I'd lose my mind!


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