# Wife and the Xmas Do.



## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Hi All,

I was reading the thread out of curiosity about the bloke who wasnt invited to his wifes works do.

I am in a similar boat. 

The thing is am I in the wrong? I dont know.

Event is
All women from work (only women)
Meal
Band
Dancing
Venue - about 5 miles away - havent been before so I dont know what it is like - no info on that.

She will get dressed up - new black dress.

She leaves the house at 6pm this evening - and says she will be back at 2am

Naturally - she and the others will drink.

I get the "its a girls night out" "you should trust me" - that sort of thing from her.

The thing is - weve been married for 15 years - shes 41.

This happens year on year and I too - am fed up of it now.

Why?

Cos I cant stand the thought of lecherous drunken slobs all over her chatting her up.

Will she cheat? I hope not.

I dunno - im in with the kids and shes out there. Its a tough one for me.

Am I alone?

Should I just tell her she cant go? I cant get my head round that because I dont own her. I WANT her to say - "look if it gets to you that much - I wont go" - but she wont say that - she will go - period.

I know for a fact that I wouldnt go out with my mates till 2am - christmas or not - because I feel that would be wrong on her.

Oh well.

Here we go again.


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## familygirl (Dec 13, 2013)

did you try telling her how you felt?

If she didnt want you to worry she would prob give you a wee reassurance text or call.

If she stays out to 2am - why dont you stay out to 2am with your xmas party?

If she doenst like you out until that time maybe she will pull the reigns a bit with her time for arriving home?


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

It's a work party, all women, a girls night out and it's an *annual *event

I'd be saying, have a blast Hun! And, I always remind her to be careful with the drinking. 

Punishing her for your insecurities will not go over well...


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Yes - she knows how I think about it because I can barely look at her today (or other times this crops up).

It means a lot to me - its a big deal - but maybe Im a childish gimp eh? I think not - but not sure what to think anymore!!

I dont have a xmas do - I have my own company - 1 man setup - me. I could go out with "mates" - sure - but that would be for the wrong reason if it were to "get one back" or show her what its like.

Wouldnt do it anyway tbh.

Its difficult.

She asked me to drop her off at a friends house at 6 in the car
She asks me if she looks great in her dresses etc
She wants me to drive in the morning (due to her probably still being over the legal driving alcohol limit and tired out)

I think I get the impression that most blokes wouldnt "tolerate" this - I may be wrong.

She cannot see how much this gets to me. Maybe she will when I give her the divorce papers.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Be careful - yeah - last year she was puking all over the show and sat on the bog for about 3 hours after getting in at 2am.

Have a blast my arse - you dont know the half of it.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

I dont punish her BTW - as you put it. I do nothing. But I cant help but get "down" about it. Punish her?

No - even the divorce papers were a joke - but that - even if it ever happened - wouldnt be a "punishment" - it would be the "effect". I dont think its that bad tho. I just get over it and carry on. But I do think its been building up all these years. Maybe its an age thing? As I say - not sure what to think anymore - I only REALLY know I dont "feel" comfortable. If that makes sense.


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## Darksound (Dec 14, 2013)

It appears she is pushing the boundaries a bit with you. With the precedent of having letting herself go (puking with the overdrinking), she is setting herself up for a precarious situation with another GNO. If it were me I would sit her down and discuss some ground rules. She needs to respect your position.

Good luck.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

MrRed said:


> Be careful - yeah - *last year she was puking all over the show and sat on the bog for about 3 hours after getting in at 2am.*
> 
> Have a blast my arse - you dont know the half of it.


You didn't put that in your original post. Drinking to that point is unacceptable! That's why I always remind my wife not to drink to excess. She doesn't handle it well and doesn't come home trashed...

Totally different situation now... If she pulls this crap at every event, I'd be putting my foot down too!


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Sorry TandT - I didnt want to go writing a whole book about it - theres lots of points to consider when trying to suss this out - equally - I dont want to put her in bad light when that is not the norm - I am trying not to taint my story by my own position - if you see what Im trying to say - I dont want to be unfair by saying ALL bad things about her and miss the good things out.

She isnt a ***** or anything - far from it. She isnt a massive drinker - which is probably why she gets sick so easily. But she does it anyway.

So its difficult to paint a picture in such a small amount of text.

I suppose fundamentally - the question remains - in my head.

Am I over reacting by feeling so low - I cant control it - it isnt conscious thought - its a sensation of something I cannot put my finger on - but its a VERY VERY deep and STRONG sensation.

Maybe jealousy? of what? she hasnt done anything.

Worry that she will? Yes I suppose.

Thinking things through helps me understand it - but wont change anything.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

MrRed, I am not sure if anything I have to say will help or not, but here are my thoughts.

1. If a woman gets all dressed up, it is because she wants people to notice her.

2. I would not get all dressed up and go to bars unless my husband was with me. I would not get all dressed up and go out without my H unless I was going to the symphony, dinner show, or something like that and I would have a girlfriend or one of my kids with me - no drinking involved.

3. I would go out with the girls, but not all dressed up, I don't drink so that part is not a problem with me, and I would be home at a decent hour. Hubby would be welcome if he wanted to come.

4. I think your wife enjoys this once a year attention she gets. So the question is why would she want to? Is she feeling a lack of desirability from you? Do you make her feel the way she feels on these nights?

To be fair though, I might not have invited H when I was her age, I have grown a lot in the past decade +.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

"So the question is why would she want to? Is she feeling a lack of desirability from you?"

Shes probably looking for something better.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Maybe I missed it, but the complaint is that she goes out to a X-max party without her husband. Is this a bad thing or not? We don't have enough info to say either way at this point. To know if this is an overreaction on the OP's part or if he has something to worry about, we need more background on the wife:


Does she go on GNO's regularly dressed to kill, or is the concern only about the X-mas party that happens once a year only?
Does she naturally have poor boundaries, or does she understand that good boundaries make for secure marriages?
Is there tension currently in the marriage where they are drifting apart, or is the marriage strong?
If the OP states that the marriage is strong, does he COMMUNICATE regularly with his wife to verify that the marriage is strong or is this an assumption on his part?
Has the OP's wife changed recently that would be result in potential risk to the marriage, like her getting more outgoing due to sudden weight loss or wanting to dress more provacatively due to recent weight loss?

Just a few things to consider before going to far down the rabbit hole.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Plan 9 - I suppose the marriage is boring and weak, we dont talk about much because she isnt one for conversation - never has been - with anyone - although she would deny this. She doesnt seem to have strong views on anything at all really.

Theres no depth of discussion in anything - fortunately for me I can talk deep with friends.

No weight loss - just the same.

She does it two or three times a year (gno) that is. Varying degrees - sometimes drives and doesnt have a drink, always dresses up.

She wouldnt want to talk about this in depth - she would have no empathy. Not because she is nasty - but she probably wouldnt know what the word "empathy" meant.

:/


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

"Does she naturally have poor boundaries, or does she understand that good boundaries make for secure marriages?"

This is an interesting question, it raises the issue that what is a boundary for one person, means nothing to another person. 

A given boundary is important to some, and not to others.

In this case, my boundary would be not to go out on a works do at christmas with work buddies - if she did not feel right about it.

Her boundary is much lower (from my perspective you will understand - I am NOT SAYING IM RIGHT!!!!) - my feelings dont apply - and she is going and that is the be all and end all of it.

If this were to be discussed with her, the concepts we are addressing would be lost. All that matters to her is that she goes out, she wouldnt be bothered with, or understand, the importance of an in-depth chat.

See what I mean? The importance in her mind is attached to the night out and whether she goes. The fact I have an issue is my problem - thats the end of it.

"thats the end of it" - not because she is nasty - but because she doesnt comprehend the importance of the matter - in my eyes.

How to show her its important? I really couldnt get through - and on this topic and many many others over the years weve been together - ive just given up. Not because shes nasty (again I stress this) - but because she just doesnt seem to think much - and wont.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

MrRed said:


> This is an interesting question, it raises the issue that what is a boundary for one person, means nothing to another person.
> 
> A given boundary is important to some, and not to others.
> 
> In this case, my boundary would be not to go out on a works do at christmas with work buddies - if she did not feel right about it.


Boundaries don't have to mean anything to another person. YOU set boundaries for what you will and will not allow into your life. If someone crosses them, YOU take action on them. Others might or might not honor your boundaries, but it's entirely up to you to uphold boundaries in your life. They aren't "rules" or "agreements." They are the limits, and while you have boundaries for your own behaviors, you don't have a right to impose your boundaries on anyone. You have an absolute duty to uphold the boundaries of what you'll tolerate in your life, though, no matter who is crossing them. 

But to your original question about this holiday party...

It's clearly an event where your wife doesn't use good judgment about how much to drink, so why should you trust her judgment to use good judgment about her behavior when she's willing to drink enough to impair her judgment? 

I'd say you have good reason to be unhappy with the situation. She is putting her work relationships ahead of her marriage at least one day of the year, which wouldn't be a big deal by itself (we all sometimes have more pressing, temporary priorities, right?) except that she is doing it for something that ALSO isn't marriage-friendly - putting herself in the company of people who are on the sexual prowl and letting her judgment get impaired. 

Would she be willing to agree not to drink if you agree to happily support her attendance? 

BTW, your inability to look at her, as you said, *IS* punishment.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I don't know. To drink until you get sick and throw up is stupid. I know. I'm one of those kinds that if a bartender wave a bar rag under my nose, I fall down.

Two things in this world scare the hell out of me. Needles and throwing up, so I learned to stop drinking with two beers. Any more and I get nausea and then I'm outside call a moose. MOOOOOOOOOOOSE. In other words, stop drinking before you get to that point. Besides there's nothing lady like in seeing a woman blowing her groceries all over the table


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

"Would she be willing to agree not to drink if you agree to happily support her attendance? "

Great point - I expand. This would be described as a compromise certainly.

My mind would be put at ease if :-
a) She drove the car there and didnt drink.
b) She didnt dress up to the nines and put makeup on (something she NEVER otherwise does)
c) Flaunt her look in my face and ask me to tell her she looks fantastic before dissapearing out of the door till 2am

So compromise - I am all for it - is she? Not a chance. Period.
Because shes nasty? Nope - because she simply doesnt realise how hard this is (rightly or wrongly) for me. 

Shes in the shower now, im doing the tea for my young sons.

Yet still I question myself am I right to feel this way? How come this is so hard to just let her go out and have a blast?

I wish she wouldnt - but then again - I dont actually want to be some control freak either. I mean what kind of a husband would stop his wife on her works do with her workmates? They would all think it odd wouldnt they? Or would they? I know a couple of their husbands dont like it either - but to what extent - I have no info.

The missus is angry because I am sullen/sulking whatever it is im doing. Just not happy.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

I was thinking just now some more about compromise, on reflection even if she would give me a kiss and a squeeze - that would help - but oh no - NOTHING - im in the wrong and I can just get a grip.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Hmm... If I was in your shoes, I'd probably tell her something like, "It's not my place to try to control you, but I strongly believe that the choice you're making is one that harms our marriage and I'm angry that you think it's ok to make choices like that."


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

Yes Kathy - I have almost word for worded that - but the reply is simply that going out shouldnt be an issue - and therefore it is ME who is damaging the marriage.

I guess it probably is. But am not sure - because I know im not alone in the way I think.


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## MrRed (Dec 14, 2013)

she showed me a bottle of ameretta? dont know how to spell it - she has and is going to sneak in to the place - to share with friends so they dont have to pay too much money out. She did this the other night - she seems to think that if the night works out cheaper - this makes it ok. I can assure you - this offers very little reassurance.

Did she do this because she is nasty? Nope - she did it because she - as always - didnt think of what it might make me think. Or did she know it would make me uncomfortable - and that is why she showed me? Ordinarily I would think not - but now? Dunno.


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## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

You sad it yourself, your marriage is not in a good place right now, that should be your primary worry. Why are we even talking about her Xmas party? We should talk about the things you two do together to have better marriage.

People should have something besides marriage - work, friends, hobbies so you have something else to talk about. 

BTW girls dress up for other girls, it is a competition. Honestly, if it is just GNO what are you worried about, that she is going to turn gay for a night? 

The ONly thing I can think of that I would consider wrong is IF this event would interfere with your family Xmas, if it was on the actual Xmas night that you want to spend as a family. 

Yes, it is not healthy to get drunk to the point of being sick, but it happens. It happens to me about 1 or 2 a year, it is because I drink rarely and can not hold liquor very well. Don't forget that you don't own her and she is the one who is hurting herself physically and should make these decisions for her self. 

Last time I was sick when we had a fight and I drunk 3 glasses of wine too fast, because I was hurt and didn't want to feel. 

I don't want to appear judgmental, I understand that you are hurt that she doesn't care about your feelings. Sounds to me you are both stubborn about this issue. 

Right down on the paper what you think is wrong in your marriage and what you would do to change that and ask her to make a list too. Talk about it. If it doesn't work, tell her that you care very much about your marriage and would like to go to MC together. 

Good luck 

p.s. My husband would have zero issue with me going to a party alone, even if there would be guys. For me the same, we just trust each other.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

MrRed said:


> Yes - she knows how I think about it because I can barely look at her today (or other times this crops up).


I'm not sure what you mean here. Did you tell her how you feel, or have you passive-aggressively shown her by refusing to look at her, being quiet, etc?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is true, you cannot control her. She can't control you either. You can go to the bar they are going to yourself. Or you could ask a friend to go observe for you just what the nature of the outings is. Maybe nothing terribly threatening is happening at them, but as has been pointed out, you have deeper seated issues that you and your wife need to deal with. This is more of a symptom of a lack of understanding and respect, and ineffective responses.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sorry Mr.Red, this whole party is wrong from the start. 


1) This is a work thing that only involves women? Really? There are no men in place of work? If there are men, and only the women are going this is NOT an office party, it's a girls noght out and in a venue that is unacceptable.

2) Office party to 2 am without the spouse: ahh...NO!

3) A party in a club with dancing without your spouse: Double NO! That is the action of a single person.

You have to set your boundries. This would not fly with me in at all.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Going out shouldn't be such a big deal. It sounds like your marriage is a bit average and the main problem you have is that she is getting dressed up. If your relationship was stronger this whole thing would be a non event (unless you do have control and insecurity issues). So the problem isn't the party, it is your marriage. Spend your energy on fixing that.

Getting dressed up to go out is pretty normal and not a red flag, honestly, men that stress about this seem a tad controlling and insecure. Not getting dressed up would be more of an issue for me.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Frankly, I would go to the place where the "do" is and just check up on things, discreetly. Get a sitter for the kids if necessary and see what's going on. Put your mind at ease. And if you see something you don't like, let her know you are there and put a damper on it.

If she gets upset that you're there ... Well too bad for her. Assert yourself.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Why dont you plan to have her tailed by a PI the next time she does a gno or the next year xmas party?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I just want to be sure that everyone understands that this is a GNO dressed up to look like an office christmas party, right? On a Saturday night. At a club. No husbands, but lots of men. This is going to be a GAS!

The part that killed me most about my wife's party spree was the prep. Watching my wife get ready for her "dates" killed me more than anything. And I couldn't say a word because I would have been "controlling". SO I let her go.

Too bad I got to this party too late. I would have HIGHLY advised you to get someone to check out this little hen party. You can't stop her this year, but some cell video could have killed it for future years.

No husbands but lots of men. And he's supposed to be OK with it. I don't understand this phenomenon.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean here. Did you tell her how you feel, or have you passive-aggressively shown her by refusing to look at her, being quiet, etc?


He can't tell her how he feels because he's supposed to be fine with this. For some BIZARRE reason, men are supposed to accept that it's OK for their wives to dress up like s.l.u.t.s and troll meat markets. This is not passive aggressive behavior. This is passive-passive behavior. He has a situation that he REALLY doesn't like (for good reason) and society tells him he can't voice his opinion. So he handles it as best he can. 

OP. Spend some time on facebook today. More than one of these gals posted something about their night. I can guarantee that. Maybe some pictures too.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

MrK said:


> He can't tell her how he feels because he's supposed to be fine with this. *For some BIZARRE reason, men are supposed to accept that it's OK for their wives to dress up like s.l.u.t.s and troll meat markets.* This is not passive aggressive behavior. This is passive-passive behavior. He has a situation that he REALLY doesn't like (for good reason) and society tells him he can't voice his opinion. So he handles it as best he can.
> 
> OP. Spend some time on facebook today. More than one of these gals posted something about their night. I can guarantee that. Maybe some pictures too.


Nice, real nice. Where did he say his wife dressed up like a xxx. What a foul thing to say.

Women are not chattels, they can dress up if they wish, they can go out with their friends.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

MrRed said:


> She will get dressed up - new black dress.


I'll bet it's a sexy little number.



MrRed said:


> She does it two or three times a year (gno) that is. Varying degrees - sometimes drives and doesnt have a drink, always dresses up./





MrRed said:


> b) She didnt dress up to the nines and put makeup on (something she NEVER otherwise does)
> c) Flaunt her look in my face and ask me to tell her she looks fantastic before dissapearing out of the door till 2am


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

MrRed said:


> she showed me a bottle of ameretta? dont know how to spell it - she has and is going to sneak in to the place - to share with friends so they dont have to pay too much money out. She did this the other night -


The other night? I thought these little hen-fests were only 2-3 times a year? Looks like 2-3 times per month. Is that more accurate?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Holland said:


> Getting dressed up to go out is pretty normal and not a red flag, honestly, men that stress about this seem a tad *controlling and insecure*. Not getting dressed up would be more of an issue for me.


There is is. The "C-word". Partying wives LIVE off of the c word.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Is this a new trend or something? I hold events for my employees during reasonable hours like bowling or a pot luck or something. But I would never throw an evening event and tell them no spouses allowed. That would be rude in my opinion, to tell them they couldn't bring the +1 of their choice when there is a nice dinner and a DJ. Most of them treat it as a date night. Heck, most of them actually want their co-workers to meet their spouse (how shocking!!!!).


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

MrK said:


> There is is. The "C-word". Partying wives LIVE off of the c word.


You forgot the *I* word. Controlling and Insecure.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

I am probably wrong here, but I swear, I think I would find out where the club is, go in disguise, and just drop in and observe for a bit late in the night.


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

So how did the Company / Girls night out turn out? Any blowback from your wife over your controlling & insecure behaviour? Did she admit to performing flirtatious acts with other men or having illicit sex in or on another man's car or visiting another man's home? I'm not winding you up. Yours are valid concerns, especially if the rest of your marriage is problematic. Personally, I think no company in this day and age would enforce a no spouses rule. The only people who would enforce & uphold that kind of thing are those who don't want their spouses to be present. The list of reasons why is kind of short don't you think? What would your wife think if you put your best party clothes on and told her you were going to a nightclub with your mates and she wasn't invited? I guarantee you at least one of her women friends would call you a cheater. Your wife is dressing up, putting on make up to go on the prowl and wiping her feet on you on the way out. You better sort out your marriage soon or one day she will walk or cheat & you won't even see it coming.
[


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I dunno - im in with the kids and shes out there. Its a tough one for me."

You're resentful that she's having a good time without you and taking pains to look mighty fine while she's at it. You're stuck at home with the kids and pouting.

Why not hire a sitter for these nights and go out with your mates? You don't want to? Well, there you go.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> "I dunno - im in with the kids and shes out there. Its a tough one for me."
> 
> You're resentful that she's having a good time without you and taking pains to look mighty fine while she's at it. You're stuck at home with the kids and pouting.
> 
> Why not hire a sitter for these nights and go out with your mates? You don't want to? Well, there you go.


OP

This is not a bad idea. Your reaction to her disrespecting you (exactly what this is....she's ignoring a perfectly reasonable marital boundary) should be to demonstrate that t two can always play at the disrespect game. So cross one of her boundaries for you. Don't cheat on her, just show her you think she is replaceable. Do something more than talking or complaining..........


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> One of the common things between this thread and the other one is wives going out looking good which the husbands never get to experience.
> 
> Would it make a difference if you went out with your wife looking good on a regular basis? That way it's not just her co-workers getting a dressier version of her, but you enjoy it more frequently as well?


I agree but I also see that these same wives simply do not care about their H's feelings and treat very logical and sensible reasons for the H to be upset as ridiculous and will say anything to get their way to going out, looking sexy, with the H not there. 
I think when we read these threads it sounds like the same woman, just different men. It is b/c it is a "type" of woman.
They want the attention and how far they will let the attention go is the question.
I think the answer to that question though, is well documented. These woman are up to no good. Period.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I would not go, If it was me and my husband was not happy with it then yes, I would stay home.

If my husband could not go then i would not want to really go anyway.

Whats the reason why you cant go?

2am is taking the piss in my opinion. If she is going to go out the least she can do is come back at a reasonable hour.

Why don't you just come right out and tell her how your feeling. Express how you feel about it.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> One of the common things between this thread and the other one is wives going out looking good which the husbands never get to experience.
> 
> Would it make a difference if you went out with your wife looking good on a regular basis? That way it's not just her co-workers getting a dressier version of her, but you enjoy it more frequently as well?


:iagree:

We went out last night to Mrs Wysh's company do. She looked really good and I made sure to tell her so.

However she had a 'floor level' do recently which was employees only. She looked good for that too, and she has had do's that have been put on by their clients which are employee only.

I have had a couple of nights out recently, and my works do in 5 days time is employee only.

When she goes out she catches up with her chums, has a few drinks, something to eat, very rarely goes dancing and never comes staggering back at stupid o clock with her knickers in her pocket.

But we also make sure we take the time to go out together anyway, probably easier for us as our kids are grown up.

I'm not daft, I know given the right set of circumstances, things might happen but I simply refuse to live in fear of that.

I practice due diligence, my time on TAM has made me realise that there are many more douches quick to 'profit' when they see an opportunity than I realised.

On a recent night out she said that she was going out, doing this and that and might end back at ---'s (single male work colleague) flat (apartment) for a while.

I said that I did not think it was appropriate for her to visit a single male's flat on her own after a night out. However it turns out that it was most of them going and the guy had simply prepared some party food.

She agreed and said if it did turn out that it was her only that she wouldn't go.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

:iagree: I agree with frenchfry, in addition to this, have her get all dressed up with makeup. You need to step it up. As another poster said, she is entering peri-menopause and you are going to have some issues if you don't.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Welcome to TAM where assumptions and hypotheticals magically turn into fact and the truth!

SHEESH!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I quit reading part way into the second page. I apologize if this has been posted.
> 
> Take Her Out! AND show her a great time and have some much needed fun, together.
> 
> She doesn't think you care about her or are attracted to her. She is getting into peri-menoupause. Her moods are changing and she needs you to show her that you want her. Yes, want to take her out, have fun and take her home after a couple of drinks and do her like the bad girl she is. Get it done, man.


:iagree:

Definitely try the loving approach before a much tougher one. But if that doesn't work........my previous post.......


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"and never comes staggering back at stupid o clock with her knickers in her pocket."

That's some funny visual. Thanks for the laugh.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

If I were in your wife's shoes, I too would go to the party. Your insecurities are your problem, not hers.

If she was doing this kind of thing every week that would be a different story altogether and entirely inappropriate - for either of you.

But once a YEAR???? Come on man, seriously???

You have NO right to tell her she can't go, or to "sit her down and discuss ground rules". FFS you're her husband, not her father.

If this were me, my husband would be waving me off telling me to have a great time (again, if I were doing this every week totally different story)...and vice versa.

There's nothing at all wrong with a group of women going out for a night to let their hair down, have a few drinks, dance together (they don't have to dance with other men - happens all the time) and have some fun.

Lighten up!


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

frusdil said:


> (they don't have to dance with other men - happens all the time)


Does anyone REALLY think there will be no other men involved in this night out?

REALLY think that?

I will accept that a bunch of gals can go out dressed like tramps and have it truly be a girls night. Too many women have said they do for me to argue.

But it is also just as common, more so really, to have them go out to meet and party with strange men. 

Which direction do you all REALLY think these gals are heading?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

frusdil said:


> *If this were me*, my husband would be waving me off telling me to have a great time


Can I have at least a LITTLE bit of honesty from the clubbing defenders? For ONCE? PLEASE?

Can we admit there there were THOUSANDS of husbands, this weekend alone, who did that EXACT SAME THING, only to have their wive's tongue down some strangers throat at 1AM.

And Frusdil. That is NOT you. And it is not you for a reason.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Or lets try this:

"Honey. My back has been killing me. I'm heading out to Kim's Spa to get a back rub". 

Now we all KNOW "Kim's" can't be a handjob house, because that would be illegal. And besides, he's telling you it will be just a back rub. So wives wouldn't have a problem with hubby visiting a place like that, right? As long as he told you it was for therapudic reasons, right?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I don't even get the sense that these women are out for no good...but they have a legitimate, inexcusable reason to be dressed up and they enjoy the hell out of it. In my opinion there isn't anything wrong with with that. The thing that sucks is that MrRed doesn't experience this enough that one night without him is no big deal.
> 
> One of the biggest reasons my husband doesn't care if I get dressed up and go out without him occasionally is because 90% of the time I get dressed up and go out with him.


I don't think I have ever agreed with FrenchFry before, but this was right on the money. The GNO is not the problem per se, it's her lack of attention to her husband.




MrK said:


> Can I have at least a LITTLE bit of honesty from the clubbing defenders? For ONCE? PLEASE?
> 
> Can we admit there there were THOUSANDS of husbands, this weekend alone, who did that EXACT SAME THING, only to have their wive's tongue down some strangers throat at 1AM.


Mr. K, not every woman on a GNO is having sex with strange men. In fact, plenty of women cheat outside a GNO, in the office, in hotels, or wherever. Assuming the worst case scenario means you will always have to lock down your wife 24/7 as if she is living in Iran or Saudi Arabia.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

One more, then I'm gone.



frusdil said:


> If she was doing this kind of thing every week that would be a different story altogether and entirely inappropriate - for either of you.
> 
> But once a YEAR???? Come on man, seriously???





MrRed said:


> she showed me a bottle of ameretta? dont know how to spell it - she has and is going to sneak in to the place - to share with friends so they dont have to pay too much money out. *She did this the other night*


He admitted in this thread that it was "two or three times a year". Then posted the above where she went out "the other night". She does this a little more regularly that he's admitting here.

I was going to find the post where he says she doesn't talk about these nights out (mine didn't either), but I think I've made my point


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Theseus said:


> you will always have to lock down your wife 24/7 as if she is living in Iran or Saudi Arabia.


Because I would prefer my wife NOT dress like a ***** and go to establishments with alcohol and reputation for hooking up members of the opposite sex I'm an Islamic extremist?

WHY WON'T YOU PEOPLE BE HONEST ABOUT THIS?

I have NEVER understood that.

French Fry:

You go to these places all the time. Why won't YOU, of all people, qualify all of your clubbing defense with a disclaimer:

"luckily, my husband is not a controlling Neanderthal like K. But I have seen some pretty inappropriate behavior by married women at these places".

Then give some REAL advice on how a husband can deal with a partying wife.

This is not a trip to the supermarket. This is NOT a trip to the bank. This is a trip to a place that serves alcohol in an environment where 75% of the people there are looking to get laid by someone they haven't met yet. In an atmosphere that ENCOURAGES such behavior.

(And DO NOT argue that 75% figure. All of the men there bring us to 50% immediately)


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Mr. K, not every woman on a GNO is having sex with strange men.


Agreed. But many are. What is an acceptable percentage? Half? Three quarters? At what point do I accept the odds? 

And here's another thing you defenders don't understand. It doesn't have to be sex to be infidelity. Kissing is infidelity. Grinding a strange man is infidelity. 

And most men would NOT want their wife going to a place like this to meet strange men, dance with them, and party with them until 2 in the morning. Are you defenders all saying THAT is rare at these places?

And if you are OK with your wife behaving that way, GREAT for you. There are also men that watch their women have sex with strangers. I don't. There are men in open relationships. I am not. I have my boundaries, you have yours. Are you really going to call me a control freak for not wanting my wife to behave that way?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

FrenchFry said:


> I don't think you are a neanderthal


So you say, after a nice little articulate post.

But immediately follow it with this.



FrenchFry said:


> I don't think you are overly controlling, but I couldn't be married to a guy who thinks a club environment is my cheating kryptonite.


OK, so I'm not a Neanderthal. But I'm whatever kind of a bad person "thinks a club environment is my cheating kryptonite".

I don't want to get into a fight with you, but why belittle me? Why not say you couldn't be married to someone with different interests? Or married to someone with different boundaries? Why does it have to be...

...what the hell does that even mean?

My wife had a grand old summer with her wingwoman a few years ago. And it was condescending attitudes towards husbands like me, who got hit with it out of NOWHERE that their wives suddenly wanted to "go out dancing", that kept me from saying anything. Even though her last minute "I'm going out's", her secretiveness about where she went and who she met, screamed ":inappropriate behavior is going on", I said NOTHING. NO WAY I'm going to be a guy someone as cool as French Fry could belittle. I'm a confident man.

It wasn't until I answered her phone and it was a guy she hooked up with the previous weekend asking her on a date that I finally ended it. And you know what? She didn't fight me for her right to "go dancing with the girls". I wonder why.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Some peoples husbands do not feel comfortable with their wives going out clubbing and pubbing alone, I know my husband does not, Just the same really as me, I would not like him clubbing with his mates. We did all that before we married and decided to have children.

If i was getting my self dolled up with one of my dresses on to go out till the early hours, then yes my husband would have a problem with it, I am glad he does.

Then again like i say, Pubs and clubs and going out with my friends all night is well in the past.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I agree with others that this is not a Christmas party, it is a GNO. That being said, the following is critical:



MrRed said:


> Be careful - yeah - last year she was puking all over the show and sat on the bog for about 3 hours after getting in at 2am.


Getting that drunk screams problems. Not sure why folks are devolving into the typical GNO debate when this fact is out there.

I hope the OP comes back to update what happened this year.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> I think it is bs to believe that an employer would hold an employee only party for xmas.


Everyone needs to remember that spouses ARE welcome. It is queen bee/toxic friend that decreed HER little group of hens can't bring hubby's. 

This is a classic GNO dressed up as a Christmas party. Nothing less.

Or WAS a classic GNO. I'd love to hear how it went.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

FrenchFry said:


> That was the other thread with the Queen Bee.


Sorry. I stand corrected. They start to look the same.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> Mr.K,
> 
> You do know what that guy meant when he said that, don't you?
> 
> ...


I knew what you meant. What do I think? I don't think a married man should have girlfriends.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

MrK said:


> Or lets try this:
> 
> "Honey. My back has been killing me. I'm heading out to Kim's Spa to get a back rub".
> 
> Now we all KNOW "Kim's" can't be a handjob house, because that would be illegal. And besides, he's telling you it will be just a back rub. So wives wouldn't have a problem with hubby visiting a place like that, right? As long as he told you it was for therapudic reasons, right?


don't forget that the husband, when he enters Kim's, will apply his own, personal boundaries to the situation. being aware that sexual services are offered, nonetheless he is only interested in muscle therapy and has no problem making that clear to the staff at Kim's. 

His wife feels insulted and disrespected in any case, and clearly needs to lighten up since her husband only goes to Kim's 2-3 times a year.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I guess I don't see these women as trolling for attention. I know true attention seekers and they don't *not* put on makeup except one day of the year. Both threads sound like stagnation, they get normal wife 364 days of the year and don't understand why she would go through this transformation for one night. I kind of think that if this happened with MrRed on a far more regular basis, he'd be able to shake off this negative feeling cycle because they get fantastic MrsRed one night, he gets her 100 nights (or whatever)
> 
> I don't even get the sense that these women are out for no good...but they have a legitimate, inexcusable reason to be dressed up and they enjoy the hell out of it. In my opinion there isn't anything wrong with with that. The thing that sucks is that MrRed doesn't experience this enough that one night without him is no big deal.
> 
> ...



Frenchfry:
so I'm just curious, what if your husband started to tell something like - "been thinking about your GNOs tot the clubs and starting to feel I really don't like you going to places where guys will be hitting on you, even though I know you won't be interested when they do. but I know you like to dance and like the kind of music the have there...so......how about I go with you when you go to these places"

would that work for you?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

MrK said:


> Can I have at least a LITTLE bit of honesty from the clubbing defenders? For ONCE? PLEASE?
> 
> Can we admit there there were THOUSANDS of husbands, this weekend alone, who did that EXACT SAME THING, only to have their wive's tongue down some strangers throat at 1AM.
> 
> And Frusdil. That is NOT you. And it is not you for a reason.


Can you explain what you mean by your last sentence please?

And yes, I REALLY believe it is possible to have a night out like this with no other men involved. 

Thousands? No. A few? Yes, there would have been. The wives would have cheated anyway. They cheat because it's who they are. 

Even if she does do this 2 or 3 times a year, that's still ok. There's 365 nights in a year, and 362 of those she's home with her hubby and kids.

Is it ok for a married woman to go out drinking with the girls and dance with other men? NO, OF COURSE NOT. I never said it was. Women have GNO's all the time, and dance with each other. Not with other men.

Some women will dance with other men. Some women will cheat. But they do that because that's who they are and if they didn't do it there, they would have done it somewhere else.


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## rabbislatkin (Sep 23, 2013)

It makes sense why you would be concerned. While sometimes its nice to get together with friends, this seems like it may be a little much. A greater concern is that you would even think she would be cheating on you. Obviously, when people become intoxicated they lose their inhibitions and may do things against their better judgment. The fact that you say your wife does not show concern about your feelings on the matter further validates your fears. In the best case scenario, you could share your feelings with her and have her understand your concerns and do what she can to assure you that she will be responsible. This may mean not staying out so late or limiting her alcohol intake. While she wants to have a fun time, if she is in a setting where there are drunk men and she is purposely dressing up to look good, whether or not she is intending to attract them, they may perceive that she is sending a statement that she wants to be noticed.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

frusdil said:


> Thousands? No. A few? Yes...


How do you argue with someone like this? Only "a few" married women went out clubbing this weekend and acted inappropriately? I can't even respond to that. So all of the stories I've researched on the subject...all of the posts on this forum alone from bartenders and DJ's...all of the "oh my god, what have I done" posts...all of the posts from clubbers...all of that is untrue? I should instead rely on the guestimate of "a few" from a clubbing defender?

"A few" married women went to church Sunday morning and got laid by a stranger afterwards. THOUSANDS of women weren't making eye contact with their husbands this weekend, and they SURELY weren't talking about "what happened last night". 

My wife and her wingwoman were most of "a few". And that's just from MY STREET!


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Went to my wife's work Xmas party on Saturday night. We had looked at a couple of these threads on here, regarding parties, GNO, BNO, etc, and aside from having a nice time out w/o the kids, etc, we wanted to watch how others behaved.

We're non-drinkers, so as the booze began to flow over the hours, we saw people go from friendly and reserved to MUCH more friendly, MUCH more touchy/handsy. The most interesting thing: the worst cases were from people that didn't attend with their spouse. There was no dancing, but folks start sitting much closer, hands were all of a sudden draped or straying all over backs and near butts, and body contact was much closer: closer than most married people would tolerate seeing.

I'm not going to apply it to all cases, and I'm not going to say that this means it can't be done safely. But, we saw what we saw. Wife said "Can you imagine what it would have been like at a club?"


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

How are you doing MrRed?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> How are you doing MrRed?


He probably bounced. Got tired of reading pages and pages expressing viewpoints that had nothing to do with advising him on his situation.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

For all of you who are defending the wife going to the GNO work party, remember that the OP's wife got sloppy drunk at last year's party. The OP's feelings are reasonable. 

She has shown that she does not make good decisions when she is out partying without her husband, and she is cavalier in her dismissal of his feelings about it, even going so far as to call him controlling. You should respect your spouses feelings, not dismiss them. 

Contrast this with your situation French Fry, and the others,...I assume that you don't get sloppy drunk, puke, and act irresponsibly when you go out without your husbands. 

The OPs situation is different. His wife has given him a reason not to trust her decision making. 

Everybody on TAM needs to remember that what makes sense in their own marriage is not universally applicable to everybody else's marriage. It is one thing to relate your own experience. It is quite another to think that everybody else should do it your way without regard for their particular situation. 

If the OP's wife dismisses his very reasonable feelings about the party, he should find a way to enforce his boundary about no late night partying sans spouse.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> He does, I'd say...70-80% of the time. I always ask if he wants to go.  And no, I wouldn't mind at all, he's a fantastic time.


that's great. you seem to be in a loving, respecting marriage where comminication is very good. in those cases "boundary" issues, whatever they may be, can be dealt with fairly easily. If the marriage is not so good or struggling, that's when these things start to become problems.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

SolidSnake said:


> For all of you who are defending the wife going to the GNO work party, remember that the OP's wife got sloppy drunk at last year's party. The OP's feelings are reasonable.
> 
> She has shown that she does not make good decisions when she is out partying without her husband, and she is cavalier in her dismissal of his feelings about it, even going so far as to call him controlling. You should respect your spouses feelings, not dismiss them.
> 
> ...


Agreed!

But one other thing. Very often we are not given important bits of information. Sometimes the OP "trickle-truths" those bits out over time. But I do wish that they were more available.

I can't be certain as to how often has GNO's. Nor do I know if she gets drunk at all of them or what. And the Xmas party bit has been going on for years (she got drunk last year), but what about prior behavior?

Last, many of us here project our own problems onto the situation posed by the OP. That's not fair either.

So in a way, almost everyone here is "right" in some sense. The disagreements occur because folks are making different assumptions.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Looks like MrRed isn't coming back.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

SolidSnake said:


> For all of you who are defending the wife going to the GNO work party, remember that the OP's wife got sloppy drunk at last year's party. The OP's feelings are reasonable.
> 
> The OPs situation is different. His wife has given him a reason not to trust her decision making.


I agree. Nothing wrong with a GNO, but don't come home wasted...It's unsafe and disrespectful.


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## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

Sorry but I just find this realy strange. That might be because I'm from Europe.

Why wouldn't she dress up if she is going to a X-mas work party? Do you not dress upp when you go to an official thing? I don't find that strange at all. 

All the companies I have worked for do have employees only parties sometimes. Those parties usually end up in a bar or a club in the evening. In these cases I'm rarely home by 2am.

My wife goes out from time to time with her workbuddies. Sometimes she is home by midnight sometimes not. 

You know, as long as it's not to often for either part what's the problem? 

Now if you had any other red flags, then maby I would be a bit troubled, but you don't do you?

What I read into it is basically that you are jealous and that you are having trouble trusting your wife. It's either your problem completely and you need to figure that out because living like that is not healthy, or you have some serious problems in your M.


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