# I'm here - not by choice



## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

I found TAM 2 months ago and have been reading and learning a lot. As a lurker, it was easy to think these things couldn't happen to me. Now, I think I'm at a point where I need to post.

Short history - Married 16 years, 3 young kids. She is a SAHM. Marriage has been like most - ups and downs but generally ok. Sex was always an issue with me wanting more, her less. 

Wife has developed an EA with someone from HS (Facebook strikes again!) First contact started 18 months ago, but was sporadic. Communication has picked up since March 2011. OM lives 1000+ miles away, so I know there has been no PA. OM is married with kids. She initiates the contact - I don't know if he interested or just sees it as flirting. 

In April, I found some papers where she wrote out her fantasy of having sex with this guy. It was never sent to him (absolutely sure) but it shows where her mind is at.

I confronted her and we are in MC. After reading TAM, I quickly realized I was a "Nice Guy" and have made changes to correct that. I've implemented a pseudo-180 and it helped.

The MC has uncovered that I'm seen as a daddy figure (which see is rebelling against) and that my wife has regrets about not sowing her wild oats when she was younger. She has asked for a separation. I told her if that was what she wanted, then she would have to move out - not me (thanks TAM!).

I know that she still has contact with the OM via text or FB. I don't really have access to either. (Keyloggers won't help and I'm not sure that it makes a difference).

Where do I go from here? Thank you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

there are 2 options;
the wait and see, give her time and space, or the tough love scorched earth way.
your choice!!!!!

Like you said about daddy....daddies way would be scorched earth, tough love, and all that. It sound like she needs the tough love appraoch.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Scorched earth as in "I won't stand for this"? :scratchhead:

She has repeated asked for "space", but I know that OM is planning on being in town soon. (Perhaps within the week, I don't know.)


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She needs to go No Contact with this guy immediately. I would suggest she close down her Facebook account altogether. At the very least she needs to unfriend this guy and anyone else who might be supportive of the affair. 

If there is a H.S. reunion coming up you will need to deal with that as well. Be aware she could have email accounts you do not know about.

You need to have access to her Facebook and email accounts.

That is what I would do now.

However, you could go the wait and see, but you will need to monitor what she is doing. Others can explain how that is done.

My point is that you have seen enough to shut this down asap. 
By shut this down we are not talking about stopping her, but rather telling her this is unacceptable behavior in your marriage and that you will not put up with it. If she chooses to pursue this OM then you have your answer.

You do have an investment here. 16 years. 3 kids. She is a SAHM. So you have been footing the bills. How about you cut off the credit cards? You have all the power right now. use it. It will soon be gone if you do not act.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Walt said:


> Scorched earth as in "I won't stand for this"? :scratchhead:
> 
> She has repeated asked for "space", but I know that OM is planning on being in town soon. (Perhaps within the week, I don't know.)


Tell the OM's wife for starters
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> Scorched earth as in "I won't stand for this"? :scratchhead:
> 
> She has repeated asked for "space", but I know that OM is planning on being in town soon. (Perhaps within the week, I don't know.)


Then you have zero time to prevent this from being consummated. This will go physical the first day they are together. Giving space enables the affair.

Unless you wish to be cuckolded you need to take action today.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Out the OM to his wife. Do so without telling your wife or him beforehand. GOOD for you for not leaving the home. Stop doing things for her and sleeping with her. Do not reward her with anything since she wants a separation and still is in contact with OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't know the OMW or if telling her would help. So far as I can tell, my W is the aggressor and he is flirting back. He doesn't seem to be pursuing her. It would be an denial by him.

I read the "just let them go" thread. The message was "go ahead, but I won't be here when/if you want to come back." Is that the idea?

I do only have a few days - as it seems he'll be here visiting family this week


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> I don't know the OMW or if telling her would help. So far as I can tell, my W is the aggressor and he is flirting back. He doesn't seem to be pursuing her. It would be an denial by him.
> 
> I read the "just let them go" thread. The message was "go ahead, but I won't be here when/if you want to come back." Is that the idea?
> 
> I do only have a few days - as it seems he'll be here visiting family this week


I don't see any reason to "Let Them Go" ..... yet. She has not consummated her affair. 

If he is not pursuing her then why is he coming to town?

You need to let his wife know. It does not matter if he denies it or not. 

Are you ready to walk away, right now. Today? I am all for the let them go method. You have to tell her this before she connects with the OM. Like ... today. 

But allowing her space to escalate the affair should not be on your agenda.

I need to point out that I am the one that was in an EA. Not my wife. She intervened and saved our marriage before it went too far. I am suggesting you do that.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

He is coming to see family. He is from our city. 

I don't know how to contact OMW. I do have OM cell phone #. Could contact him directly.

My concern is that by contacting OM, I'm seen as controlling, etc. I've already been accused of that. 

Do I make things worse by contacting OM and enraging her and risk further damage or do I confront her first and if that doesn't work call him?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> He is coming to see family. He is from our city.
> 
> I don't know how to contact OMW. I do have OM cell phone #. Could contact him directly.
> 
> ...


Being accused of controlling is further validation that there is cheating going on. 

Why is being accusesd of being controlling such a big deal? Not just you, but a lot of folks. I would be more worried about a guy banging my wife than people thinking I was controlling. Do you not feel you have the right to expect your wife not to have sex with another man? Is it ok for a wife to do this? Is a husband being controlling if he is seeking to stop an EA from going to a PA?

I guess controlling is knocking your wife off of a guy while she is riding him. Stop this stuff before that happens. Seriously.

Have you told your wife that this relationship is not acceptable yet or are you just going to keep on posting?

You have an investment of 16 years. 3 kids. She is a SAHM. How about you close her credit cards. How is that for controlling and a wakeup call?

I don't think you do that today but it needs to be in the works.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Walt said:


> She has asked for a separation. I told her if that was what she wanted, then she would have to move out - not me (thanks TAM!)


*NO SEPARATION*, it either bust her a** to rebuild the marriage or divorce. She wants to separate because it allows her to believe that she can act like a single woman while having you as her fall back plan in case her new life doesn't work out. Like most cheaters, she wants you to be her second choice, is that what you want to be?

BTW you did the right thing in not moving out. If she moves out then go ahead and file for divorce, petition for custody (her moving out can be used as abandonment and improve your chances of obtaining physical custody later on - if that is what you wish), and change the locks on the house. She would find that her new reality is not what she thought it would be.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> *NO SEPARATION*, it either bust her a** to rebuild the marriage or divorce. She wants to separate because it allows her to believe that she can act like a single woman while having you as her fall back plan in case her new life doesn't work out. Like most cheaters, she wants you to be her second choice, is that what you want to be?
> 
> BTW you did the right thing in not moving out. If she moves out then go ahead and file for divorce, petition for custody (her moving out can be used as abandonment and improve your chances of obtaining physical custody later on - if that is what you wish), and change the locks on the house. She would find that her new reality is not what she thought it would be.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy,

Thanks for your help. Part of the Nice Guy stuff is being too timid. Your words help.

This relationship has been discussed in MC. She blows it off like it is no big deal. I know more than she thinks and have been calling her on it.

I've already call her on sitting on the fence. She says, she wants to work on the marriage. 

She doesn't know that I know he's coming to town. Confronting too hard blows my sources and shuts out the info for the future.
Him showing up this week throws a wrench in the MC. 

We will be talking about it tonight, I just need some support.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> Entropy,
> 
> Thanks for your help. Part of the Nice Guy stuff is being too timid. Your words help.
> 
> ...


I tend to take the tough love approach with folks. Just trying to encourage them not to be a doormat. So yeah, that is where I am coming from. I wish you luck dude. 

I confess I would make sure she did not have the oppotunity to meet up with him this week. Controlling or not. You need time to work on this.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If I had a dollar for every time a cheating spouse - more so a cheating wife - accused his/her betrayed spouse of being 'controlling', I'd be richer than Carlos Slim, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates combined.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Had long conversation with wife last night.

Long and short - she admits that she may be having an EA with him. But since it is not a PA, she's really not doing anything wrong.

She feels that since she didn't get to experience a lot of things socially (we got married young), she needs to see what is out there. Of course, she stated that she would never have any physical contact with anyone because she is not "weak." (As I type this, I can't believe how ridiculous this sounds)

Apparently our MC has somewhat agreed with this - even suggesting a possible separation during a private session with my W. 

I pointed out that most of this was nonsense. How can you fix the marriage, if you want space? How can you u work on things if you keep in contact with OM? But the more I pushed, the worse it got.

She claims she still wants this marriage - just needs space. 

I told her, if this is a competition, then I'm NOT competing. She'd better pack up and go. She says its not, that she needs to figure things out and that I need to "trust" her.

I;ve trusted her for years, but then she broke the trust. Now, I'm just supposed to trust her again because she said so.

My head is spinning.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

A marriage counselor who recommends separation as a way to save a marriage after one spouse had an EA is an incompetent fool. The only valid reason for a couple to separate is if there is ongoing spousal abuse, substance abuse or as a prelude to an inevitable divorce.

Sorry, if your wife leaves you should file for divorce immediately. It's ludicrous to put your life on hold so that she can live life like a single woman, stringing you along, so after months or years she finally dumps you for another man? But hey it's your life so you decide what you are willing to tolerate. I just hope that you chose wisely otherwise you'll end up regretting for a long time.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Walt,

In marriage, you either want to stay married or you don't. Her "figure it out" is actually "figure an out" and in my book that means she doesn't want to stay married. Your move Walt.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Her trying to minimize her EA is rich. And BS. 

You are right to tell her to go but not to expect you when she gets back.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> In marriage, you either want to stay married or you don't. Her "figure it out" is actually "figure an out" and in my book that means she doesn't want to stay married. Your move Walt.


I agree


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> Had long conversation with wife last night.
> 
> Long and short - she admits that she may be having an EA with him. But since it is not a PA, she's really not doing anything wrong.
> 
> ...


So your marriage counselor encourages your wife to have an emotional affair and date other men to see what else is out there. UFB. She has already betrayed you and has been weak in having an extra-marital affair with this man who she will most certainly go physical this week while he is here. A separation in these circumstances enables the affair and ends your marriage and prevents you from working on it. 

Instigation, Isolation and Escalation. The Instigation has occurred already via facebook. The isloation is you separating or giving her space. The then inevitable escalation is the PA that will come this next week when the OM comes to town to claim his prize.

I would file for divorce then. The MC has done your marriage an incredible harm.

So your SAHM will live separately while you provide for her. I guess they would want you to leave the home so she can date other men while she decides if she has had enough fun. Is this not the definition of cuckolding? Have you asked the MC if cuckolding is the proper way to save the marriage? 

I have to be honest here, I would see a lawyer today, get accounts separated, cut off all credit cards. She does not need a credit card for you to provide support legally.

Again space enables an affair. It provides the isolation of the primary male so the woman can be approached by the poaching male. Also how do you know the MC agreed with your wife if it was in private session? Did your wife say this or the MC?

I will absolutely tell you that had my wife not intervened with my EA years ago my marriage was over. I love her no end for doing this. I was an idiot. I did not see anything wrong with having this friend. yadda yadda yadda. To be sure I was flat dillusional. My wife saved our marriage by engaging. Giving me space would have been the death of our marriage.

Facebook / high school EAs seem so much the fantasy to me. To say that we got married young and I want a do over without working on the marriage seems idiotic. Especially when there is an investment of 16 years and 3 kids. A SAHM no less. While you are out making a living for the family she has found the time in her busy day to engage with another man ....
Now you are supposed to step aside and let another man have your wife because they connected on facebook. WTF?

I guess he can support her now.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah the MC sounds whacko.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Any one trying to rationalize their emotional affair as not really doing anything wrong since it hasn't gotten physical is still in their EA. 

You've gotten good advice so far. She needs to understand that this is decision time - right here - right now - either get in the boat and row with you to try to save your marriage or get the F out and swim on her own. There is no third alternative. As long as you allow the illusion or possibility of a third alternative she will cling to it. EVERYONE in an affair wants to have their cake and eat it to.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

And you need to give a great big F you to the counselor!!!!


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm outraged for you... UFB is right!

Your wife needs a wake up call and quick. You'll need to start thinking about daycare, because if she wants a separation she can also go get a full time job to support herself. Why would you pay for her to have the time to cheat? No freakin' way.

I agree with everyone here, it's decision time. Also time for a new MC, yours sounds like a total hack. A separation is just trying on divorce to see if it fits. Agree that your wife is just looking for an exit strategy. Of course people can fall in love with someone else if they're open to it, it's why we date when we're SINGLE! You don't get to date when you're married. To even think it's acceptable is juvenille and selfish.

Stay strong!


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Any one trying to rationalize their emotional affair as not really doing anything wrong since it hasn't gotten physical is still in their EA.


ABSOLUTLY TRUE!!

if she is trying to rationalize shes still in it - this is an opinion of the WW that had an EA - I know the signs and Sigma is 100% correct in what they told you.

Its time for her to choose - sounds to me like she is on the fence debating who is better and hoping for a plan B.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

The MC has stated that we have always worked on a parent (me) /child (her) basis. Her "acting out" is my W trying to establish her own identity and act as an equal.

The MC didn't jump immediately to separation. She asked that we think about what that would look like - if we did. She didn't say it was a good/bad idea. My W jumped to separation. When I told her that separation = divorce for me, she backed down quickly.

During the marriage, she was submissive to my wishes/suggestions, but resented that she didn't feel she had voice. I control the $$. I controlled all major decisions (buying a house, cars, vacations, when to have kids, etc.) This resentment manifested itself in her low sex drive, resulting in constant sex battles. Of course, I didn't know this until recently.

She isn't dating anyone - perhaps I misstated that. She wants freedom to go out with friends. 

W is under no illusion that I will stick around while she works thru this. I have a made it clear I have a short leash for this. I have made it clear that any physical contact will result in divorce. She says she doesn't want physical contact, nor does she want a legal separation/divorce.

Entropy - I am highly engaged. She knows it. I don't trust her. I told her that. The more I push things (NC, etc.) the farther she goes the other way. 

W is asking me to trust her that she is working in the best interests of the marriage and our family. She stated that our life is great (great kids, friendship, comfortable lifestyle, etc.) but she needs to find the desire for me that the resentment killed. Somehow, she thinks "space" will do that. I disagree.

I spoke to my IC this morning. She basically said I have 2 options - trust her or move on. I think she's right. I just don't know which way will win out.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

For you there is a third option - you can trust her but she has to prove to you that you are right to do so - as often as you need her to prove it. She's the one that broke trust - she has to earn it back - period. If she isn't willing to prove to you that you should trust her and do everything possible to make you feel good in doing so I don't think she's really committed to it.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> For you there is a third option - you can trust her but she has to prove to you that you are right to do so - as often as you need her to prove it. She's the one that broke trust - she has to earn it back - period. If she isn't willing to prove to you that you should trust her and do everything possible to make you feel good in doing so I don't think she's really committed to it.


That's the rub. By demanding proof, I'm putting her back into the subordinate role. Proof means I'm looking over her shoulder, not allowing independent actions which she desperately craves.


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## DG3 (Jul 13, 2011)

Why can't people handle Facebook? My husband caved as soon as an old girlfriend "friended" him! What it is with people? She is testing the waters right now. She is either going to jump in or bail out. You need to man up and in this situation tough love is the way to go. Ultimatum. You can't stop her from seeing him. You must let her go. She will make her own choices and have to live with it. Don't contact him, that would make you look insecure. Let her fly. It hurts thought, I know. But if you don't you will always be wondering when the next time will be. My heart hurts for you.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Sounds like a tough situation, a marriage should be 50/50. I'm a SAHM, but do all the budgeting. All big financial decisions are made together. I can see why your wife may have resentment if you've been controlling everything all these years.

Did the MC suggest her getting a job, even part time? Sometimes a SAHM may feel a lack of self worth, which can be boosted by getting a paycheck with her name on it. Somehow staying at home with the kids, although wonderful, doessn't feel as appreciated by the outside world as a paying job. Go to a company party and see the people run when you say, "I stay at home with the kids!" Unless you're up on current events and have interests outside the home, you don't have much to contribute in a professional social setting.

It seems she's feeling like she's lacking something in her life. If she wants to find it by going out with friends, that may be more escapism than "finding herself". I love going out with my girlfriends, but be careful of GNO. Going out for dinner, a movie, and/or a few drinks with girlfriends is very different from clubing until 2am. If partying is what she feels she missed out on by getting married young, then that is a problem if you don't have trust. I got all my drunken party days done before marriage and kids, but she's made the situation much harder to deal with by betraying your trust.

Good luck, trust your gut and go with what you feel is right.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Walt said:


> That's the rub. By demanding proof, I'm putting her back into the subordinate role. Proof means I'm looking over her shoulder, not allowing independent actions which she desperately craves.


SHE CHEATED!!! If she really wants to reconcile she has no right to expect her cheating to be rewarded with privacy and freedom. She has to take ownership of what she did. Yes you may have not been the perfect husband but you didn't cheat - she did and there is no excuse for that. You own some part of the difficulties in the marriage but you own no part of her cheating - she owns it 100% whether she'll take it or not. She's using your shortcomings in the marriage to keep you from making her choose between you and the OM. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that her EA is still going on.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

DG3 said:


> Why can't people handle Facebook? My husband caved as soon as an old girlfriend "friended" him! What it is with people? She is testing the waters right now. She is either going to jump in or bail out. You need to man up and in this situation tough love is the way to go. Ultimatum. You can't stop her from seeing him. You must let her go. She will make her own choices and have to live with it. Don't contact him, that would make you look insecure. Let her fly. It hurts thought, I know. But if you don't you will always be wondering when the next time will be. My heart hurts for you.


I have been pretty direct about my thoughts. She knows where I stand. I can only thank TAM for preparing me for this. I wouldn't have been able to do so 2 months ago.

Ultimatum such as "don't see him" won't work. I can't block her from seeing the OM. She's got time during the day while the kids are gone. Calling in sick for the week won't fly with my boss. Even if I did that (and didn't get fired) it would only postpone things until another he's in town again.

Thank you for your respectful thoughts


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Also, as far as my dating comment earlier, it's essentially what she's doing by her friendship with the OM on FB. I don't know the nature of their talks or if there's a secret email account, but it's still seeing if you're relationship compatible with someone. It's how my H's affair started.... IM and emails. Then it progressed to drinks and lunches. Took months, but it eventually ended up in a hotel.... twice.

My H confirmed it feels like an addiction, the attention is why he didn't stop. He also said he has a hard time believing anyone could have just an EA for months without going physical. He said the curiosity and tension keeps mounting, regardless of how great your sex life is at home.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Saffron said:


> My H confirmed it feels like an addiction, the attention is why he didn't stop. He also said he has a hard time believing anyone could have just an EA for months without going physical. He said the curiosity and tension keeps mounting, regardless of how great your sex life is at home.


My EA was kept from going physical by distance but your H is right. Sooner or later I'd have likely caved. Being in a full on EA and in physical proximity to your AP would be like watching someone eat your very favorite meal with a second plate set while you're starving to death. Sooner or later your going to take a bite.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> SHE CHEATED!!! If she really wants to reconcile she has no right to expect her cheating to be rewarded with privacy and freedom. She has to take ownership of what she did. Yes you may have not been the perfect husband but you didn't cheat - she did and there is no excuse for that. You own some part of the difficulties in the marriage but you own no part of her cheating - she owns it 100% whether she'll take it or not. She's using your shortcomings in the marriage to keep you from making her choose between you and the OM. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that her EA is still going on.




It's a bigger issue then just the OM. I hear you. I agree with you. He is not the problem - he is the outcome of the problem.

She is using my "goodness" and "patience" against me. But I can't continue to live in a sexless, resentment filled marriage either. I've told her I won't live as roommates. I deserve better.

Until this all blew up, I didn't realize how neglectful we both were. I was blind to our marital shortcomings. Now that I can see them, I don't want to go back to that place either. I don't want the marriage we had. I worked for awhile, now it is forever broken. We need to find a new way together. The OM is getting in the way. I see that. Unfortunately, she doesn't right now. And cutting her off/ultimatums/cancelling credit cards/kicking her out of the house is going to make me seem weak and vindictive. There is a time a place for that - it just isn't now.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Trust is earned and more so is this the case as it is after infidelity.

From personal experience, there is nothing that increases a cheating wife's sex drive for her husband as his filing for divorce. It seems that in many cases, a husband's sexual value goes way up once he files.:scratchhead:


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well I'm the cheating spouse so I'm out of personal experience on which to speak so I'll have to defer to the BS here. But based on what I've read and believe to be right I would say you need to start on what they call "The 180" which as I understand it is basically acting like you are emotionally divorced. Just remember that your marital issues and her cheating are two different issues and that both can be worked on at the same time but the cheating has to go first.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> The MC has stated that we have always worked on a parent (me) /child (her) basis. Her "acting out" is my W trying to establish her own identity and act as an equal.
> 
> The MC didn't jump immediately to separation. She asked that we think about what that would look like - if we did. She didn't say it was a good/bad idea. My W jumped to separation. When I told her that separation = divorce for me, she backed down quickly.
> 
> ...


Those two options are the no win scenario. Having friends is not the issue. She wants male friends as she has stated to see what is out there. That is by definition dating. If a wife needs male friends and refuses to not give them up even though her husband asks her to, how in the world should a husband trust her with her male friends. You are supposed to accept that her spending time with other men is in the best interests of your marriage? 

I don't see you trusting her is going to end in you guys staying married. I think you are now at "Let Them Go". I think she needs to face this on her own. You controlled the $$ becasue you were the one working. Yes of course she contributed as the SAHM. But she is also the one who proved she could not be trusted. This sux.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> It's a bigger issue then just the OM. I hear you. I agree with you. He is not the problem - he is the outcome of the problem.
> 
> She is using my "goodness" and "patience" against me. But I can't continue to live in a sexless, resentment filled marriage either. I've told her I won't live as roommates. I deserve better.
> 
> Until this all blew up, I didn't realize how neglectful we both were. I was blind to our marital shortcomings. Now that I can see them, I don't want to go back to that place either. I don't want the marriage we had. I worked for awhile, now it is forever broken. We need to find a new way together. The OM is getting in the way. I see that. Unfortunately, she doesn't right now. And cutting her off/ultimatums/cancelling credit cards/kicking her out of the house is going to make me seem weak and vindictive. There is a time a place for that - it just isn't now.


Ok fine. Is she ok with you going out now and seeing what is out there. With lady friends?

So you are supposed to accept that she is not having sex with you while she engages with other men ... emotionally. The advantage here is that you will not get an STD. How thoughtful of her.

Anyway, I do not want to beat on you. I hope you take firm action to move on from this. Trusting her is displaying low value and will just force her into another man's arms.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> If a wife needs male friends and refuses to not give them up even though her husband asks her to, how in the world should a husband trust her with her male friends. You are supposed to accept that her spending time with other men is in the best interests of your marriage?
> 
> I don't see you trusting her is going to end in you guys staying married. I think you are now at "Let Them Go". I think she needs to face this on her own. You controlled the $$ becasue you were the one working. Yes of course she contributed as the SAHM. But she is also the one who proved she could not be trusted. This sux.


I controlled the money because she can't manage a checkbook to save her life. I'd rather I didn't - it's more work for me. But since I made all the $$, she let me make all the decisions. I didn't see anything wrong with this then. I do now.

At this moment, I don't see what other choice I have then to "let go." I can only pray she doesn't do anything so stupid that I can't/won't forgive her.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Trusting her is displaying low value and will just force her into another man's arms.


If we go the Alpha/Beta model - I think what I need to do is emotionally detach and show I'm not threatened by OM. I know that I'll be OK w/o her. I'm worried about the kids.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> I controlled the money because she can't manage a checkbook to save her life. I'd rather I didn't - it's more work for me. But since I made all the $$, she let me make all the decisions. I didn't see anything wrong with this then. I do now.
> 
> At this moment, I don't see what other choice I have then to "let go." I can only pray she doesn't do anything so stupid that I can't/won't forgive her.


Sigh. I feel for you dude. I really do. I hope you taking this direction makes her think what she is throwing away.

I have always been the main bread winner in my house. My wife has certainly worked from time to time. Her income has helped us out for sure. It is about 15-20% of mine. She contributes in other ways so I am very comfortable in the balance we have. 

We pretty much have always followed the Captain anf the First Officer model that Athol talks about. We make decisions together. In fact much of the time I let her take the helm and trust her while I focus on my work. I am always involved in truly big decisions. 

On very rare occasions I play the Captain card and make the decision. I remember the last one. It was not something we would even really disagree on. I just made the decision and said that was it. She had no problem with my position. There was just no need to debate it. I know that is cryptic but it had to do with family and her being too trusting and possibly putting herself at physical risk. I was not going to allow her to do that. She was happy with that. In business this is called a gambit. I let her off the hook. She could then tell the others involved I had made the decision. So we still acted together. 

So read about this in Athol's book. The Captain and the First Officer. Sounds korny but it works for me and my wife.

Oh yeah and we have boundaries that we have agreed upon. We are not allowed to date other people.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> If we go the Alpha/Beta model - I think what I need to do is emotionally detach and show I'm not threatened by OM. I know that I'll be OK w/o her. * I'm worried about the kids.*


You are threatened by the other man. Is going to have sex with your wife. I hear what you mean. You are the better man. Fine I get that. A male is defined by fight or flight. I am a fighter. If he has already bedded her then fine let her go. But if that has not happened yet then I say don't give up yet.

Oh yes. The kids are really the big point. If you did not have kids I would have said leave her at hello.

It is all about the kids. So when I say you have to stand up and save your marriage, I am not even really focused on your wife as much as I am on your kids. The thing is that going Beta and not standing up to your wife is going to lose your kids ultimately. Some other dude raising your kids. That sux. Plus who knows your wife could end up with some abusive SOB.

So that is why I don't like that no win scenario. I have to defer to these other good folks on this forum. They have been through this. I have not. I was the one in the EA. I needed a two by four. My wife delivered it. I love her for that. So right or wrong I am just dumb enough to not giveup. I would use absolutley every thing at my disposal to stop this affair and to be controlling and all of that for the sake of my children.

I would cut her her off at the finances, right now. Do that 180, but let her know that it is totally unacceptable for her to be seeing other men. Saying she needs friends is not the issue. Needing male friends is not a need she should be having. I would tell her do that after the kids have grown. That they need their mother and their father. Not a mother searching for another man. Now this is totally me. In sum, I would fight this.

This may be totally wrong but that is what I would do. The most important thing to me is my family. I could care less what others think of me. Call me controlling, vindictive, whatever. But one thing for sure is. I am all in.

Tell your wife you think that you guys have approached things the wrong way and she needs to be an equal partner in your marriage. BUT she has to stop the affair(s) this minute.

I guess I am assuming she has not gone physical with this yet. When she did I would have to be all done. That is a deal breaker for me. I would rather be a man of substance with visitation rights than a beaten man living as a bad example for my children.

Ok, back to the folks who really know how to deal with this ....


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## brokendog (Dec 15, 2010)

what is a sahm?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

brokendog said:


> what is a sahm?


Stay At Home Mom.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Those two options are the no win scenario. Having friends is not the issue. She wants male friends as she has stated to see what is out there. That is by definition dating. If a wife needs male friends and refuses to not give them up even though her husband asks her to, how in the world should a husband trust her with her male friends. You are supposed to accept that her spending time with other men is in the best interests of your marriage?
> 
> So you are supposed to accept that she is not having sex with you while she engages with other men ... emotionally. The advantage here is that you will not get an STD. How thoughtful of her


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Separation is nothing more that an open marriage in disguise.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Separation is nothing more that an open marriage in disguise.


Exactly. I just had a wicked chill thinking about it. 

It was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Exactly. I just had a wicked chill thinking about it.
> 
> It was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.


You got that right Obi Wan


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> We pretty much have always followed the Captain anf the First Officer model that Athol talks about. We make decisions together.


Our model seemed more like Captain and the red shirt guy from Star Trek who always got killed.




Entropy3000 said:


> Oh yeah and we have boundaries that we have agreed upon. We are not allowed to date other people.


:iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> Our model seemed more like Captain and the *red shirt guy* from Star Trek who always got killed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not good sir. LOL.

So tell her this. It may be too late but why not tell her this. That you have thought this through and feel that there is a better way and that she should not throw away what you have together. We all learn and evolve. We adapt or die. You have children together. Are they not worth the effort? One last chance to make it work?

Grab a hold of her gently but firmly looking into her soul and tell her this. That you can move ahead together. For her to do her part she must be dedicated to the relationship with you. But that you won't let her down becasue you are committed to this change. It will take the two of you. If it does not work then she still can go on her way. If she passes on this she has lost that chance forever.

If she refuses to listen to you then you have lost her ... More importantly she has lost you.

I have hope here because my wife brought me back from the fog. It can be done. I have seen that abyss.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

What's been lost is "desire" (on her part) and "intimacy" (together). 

How do we recreate it? Distance/separation wont' do that. Seeking it out in others (platonically) won't either. Engaging emotionally with the OM only interferes and actually destroys it.

I believe she wants to recreate it as much as I do. But neither knows how in this new dynamic. We see the MC soon - maybe she can help.

I'm at a loss. Suggestions welcome.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Walt said:


> What's been lost is "desire" (on her part) and "intimacy" (together).
> 
> How do we recreate it? Distance/separation wont' do that. Seeking it out in others (platonically) won't either. Engaging emotionally with the OM only interferes and actually destroys it.
> 
> ...


Both desire and intimacy can be regained and be higher than ever.

If she can focus on your relationship and cut off ties to other men, you guys have every reason to be confident that you have dodged a bullet, IF you both are willing to change and adapt to the needs of the other.

His Needs Her Needs is a good start IMHO.

You are going to have to accept her as a full partner in your marriage. It will take a good combination of both Alpha and Beta skills. Right now that EA is the big deal. If she goes NC then you can begin the road to healing. She will go through withdrawal first. Good luck


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