# no contact violated



## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

so he went 6 months not contacting her., said after about three weeks that he felt so guilty about what he did to her that he wanted to talk to her to explain how sorry he was. i said no. 
well, just found out that he tried to call her two weeks ago to say sorry. she didnt answer. said he did it for himself, that a huge weight of guilt lifted off him once he did. he has had a wall up to me for months, adn said after he made that call, he felt ready to let the wall down. 
i dont get it, if he wanted to apologize and it didnt mean anything whether she heard him or not, so basically it was an empty apology, why did it matter so much? i feel like it means he still cares about her, he says it wasnt about her it was for him.
What a betrayal. not sure how to trust him again, i gave him a second chance on the one stipulation that he never contact her again. six months of work feels like it was for nothing now.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

does the fact that he never said a final goodbye and sorry make sense in his situation? i dont know...i feel like he shouldnt get that chance, that he just needs to live with that. but maybe i should have let him write a final letter to her? that i approved? but i didnt let him...i need help understanding how the wayward spouse moves on from the ending of the relationship with the lover.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Him calling her, him being worried about her feelings, shows he values her feelings over yours.

He had a choice to make: You, or her.

When he chose to call he was choosing her.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

:iagree:

You need to come 1st. before her for sure, but also before anything else in his life. If he can't demonstrate that, he doesn't deserve your trust. 

My wife is really having problems with that. She thinks now that we are 5 months past D-day and nearly a year since she said she stopped before I found out, that life should get back to normal. 

But no, life never goes back to normal. You can establish a new normal. And it can be happy, but he needs to earn your trust. Otherwise you will be happy with half his stuff in your new life.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

shaggy, what if he says it wasnt about her? she didnt answer, he didnt leave a message, but he immediately felt better. he said it was for him. he was being selfish and now he feels his wall towards me coming down.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

After I sent my NC letter to the OW she came and saw me. God. That was horrible. I had hurt her and she was angry. She was hurting. I thought she was going to hit me (she was a big girl, nearly 6') and I felt I deserved it. But she didn't hit me. 

Yes, I know that she'd manipulated me into the affair but even so, I felt guilty.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

TryingToHeal said:


> shaggy, what if he says it wasnt about her? she didnt answer, he didnt leave a message, but he immediately felt better. he said it was for him. he was being selfish and now he feels his wall towards me coming down.


Then he was choosing himself above you. Either way, he's not putting you and the relationship first!


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

i finally feel like i do need to come first. hes been putting himself first since about three weeks after dday. he was borderline suicidal becasue he was so upset with himself. hes been wanting to apologize to her since then and i wouldnt let him.

i told him i think i need to move out becasue its all "me me me" with him, and its hurting me. he tells me he doesnt want that. well of course he doesnt. im beautiful and loving and i took him back. but i think it was too soon. three weeks after dday, i agreed to work on things, and thats when everything changed and he stopped kissing my ass.
he says he put me on a pedstal for years, adn was afraid to ever confront me. when he did, i got upset, adn he gave up. i admit i didnt react very amturley, but he shouldnt have given up on his wants. and so thats his excuse for his selfishness now. that i was always first for 6 years and now he wants to put himself first.

im starting to wonder if hes just thinkign that the way i treated him for years justified his affair adn now we are even. thats the way hes acting when i tell him he should have told me he was thinking about calling her.

he said he didnt cuz hes still scared to talk to me. well i told him if we are working on it, he needs to let the past go and live in the now, just like i did when i let my guard down about him touching me 3 weeks after dday. 

im aching, my stomach is bubbling, my head hurts, and i basically feel like i did a few days after dday, he has set me back 6 months with this. the one condition of him getting another chance was that he never talk to her again. feels to me like he threw his chance away.

but im struggling of course cuz i love him...dont want to make a rash decision to move our feeling so sick from emotions...thoughts?? they are probably the same ones youve already given lol (holy crap i just smiled ;o) that felt good!) but at least im getting this out...


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> After I sent my NC letter to the OW she came and saw me. God. That was horrible. I had hurt her and she was angry. She was hurting. I thought she was going to hit me (she was a big girl, nearly 6') and I felt I deserved it. But she didn't hit me.
> 
> Yes, I know that she'd manipulated me into the affair but even so, I felt guilty.


mattmatt, thats exactly what he says. she totally manipulated him, he was so weak. not that that excuses it. but i never let him call her or send her a nc letter. could that be why all this lingered for him adn he felt there was no other way to get rid of the guilt than to try to apologize to her?

still, it doesnt make sense that he didnt even care that she accepted the apology, much less didnt hear it cuz she didnt answer. that i dont get. seems like an empty meaningless apology and how that made him feel better i dont get...was it that he knew he at least tried??

god thank you for responding. you are the first person who i feel like understands my situation.

whay happened to your bs after she came to see you? And your guilt?


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Then he was choosing himself above you. Either way, he's not putting you and the relationship first!


about a week ago in MC i brought up the fact that we hadnt had sex in a month. and that he seems to just be pushing me away, and if it keeps up when it comes time to decide to renew our lease or not, we should go our separate ways cuz i deserve better. he mentioned it a few days alter adn said maybe we should move out. i told him we have two months to decide. either he takes a risk and breaks down his wall or he doesnt.

so yea, this am when confronting him about the call to her, yea thats what i told him we need to talk about taking my name off the lease. and all of the sudden he says that when he mentioned moving out a week ago he said it he realized that would ahve been the biggest mistake of his life cuz its not what he wants. 

im thinking now other msitakes come way before that one...1) cheating on me 2) calling her 6 months into recovery 3)not talking to me about wanting to call her 4)being so damn passive in our relationship for years, the 5) wanting to move out.

im trying not to make a decision now feeling so bad but i havent felt this sick since the week or two after dday. i feel like until he is ready to put our relationship and my healing first, then im better off walking away from him. its just so hard to decide. im in hell right now.


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## Izzie (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't know the whole story but to me it's plainly obvious that your H is still in love with the OW and he is unable to let go. Guilt, manipulation, closure, blah blah blah... He has nearly destroyed his family over her and he's still worried about her feelings and doing shady things behind your back. Why take that chance? Do you all have kids together or something? Is he in love with her but he doesn't want to break up the family because there are children involved? That's what it sounds like. In any event, he is having a touch time letting go of this OW. She has some sort of hold on him and that is NOT a good sign for you.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

izzie, thats what i said to him. he insists it was for him only. i suppose just like a nc letter would be. just cant get past it myself. he shoulda done this months ago. its such a setback now. i thought i would never feel so bad again and here is am, back at the beginning.

i told him it seems like hes not even bothered by what im saying. he said just because he isnt crying like me doesnt mean hes not hurting. i asked him to leave for a few hours and give me some space and he immediately did. forgot something and texted he was coming back for it, then he would leave, sorry, forgive him...

his actions are just so immature and selfish.


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## Izzie (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad and I truly do wish you the best of luck but I think you know what is going on with him and his heart...


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sorry you are here. Nothing can compare to the pain of infidelity. You say you are in recovery, I'm sorry to disagree. There have been no consqequences for your wayward husband. He is not remorseful. He is concerned about himself and his paramour. He is not putting you first and is making excuses to you. He should be doing evrything possible to win you back. Did you expose the affair to everyone? I think not.

You need to satrt the 180 imediately. I would move on myself.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

i exposed him to his mother and his sister found out through him. he didnt tell his dad. i told him i didnt want him to tell his dad cuz i didnt tell my parents and i dint wnat them to be the only ones in the dark. i ddint tell my parents bc we were trying to R and my parents are really catholic and would never forgive him.

my two sisters know, and their husbands. my two best friends know. well only one is a best friend anymore, the other i felt changed her opinion of me once she found out he was cheating and hasnt asked me how i am since may. so i dont talk to her about much anymore.

im feeling more and more that maybe he wants to R, but cant. and what he needs to do it take care of himself, adn with that if he hurts me he will do it anyway. so i need to take care of myself cuz i cant keep feeling this way. i cant live like this.

i need so much more from him. my healing has ben on hold for 6 months while i tried to be patient with him putting himself first, as the therapist said needed to happen. but she also said its up to me if thats something i can do or not. and in light of this recent call to her, i realize i cant do this. 

i lost my job in june cuz i called out too much. which was only three days in 6 months but it was a hospital adn they are strict about it. just got a new job through temp to perm, and i ve bene there 9 weeks. they want to hire me. i can not scerw this up. i ahve to take care of myself. my heart is breaking doing this, i never wanted to walk away.

it feels selfish, just like how im accusing him. but i dont deserve this, and i feel like i have the flu. this aint good. i think i should move out, and if he gets to the point where he can give me all i need, ill consider it, if im still available. cuz i dont think he will b there for a long time. and he may blame me for moving out. but thats not fair. 

he doesnt want to take care of me, and he doesnt care if he hurts me if it help him, ive got to go.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

he did support me through being unemployed for 3 months. he makes very little money and struggled alot. but thats what couples do for each other, right? its just that he called her. i cant get past it.

i jsut found out this morning. im going to take some time, sleep on the couch, before making a final decision. our next MC session is not until next thursday, almost two weeks. i called her to try to get an earlier appt, but thats hard cuz of our work schedules...heres to hoping that comes through....

if nothing else, MC will help us deal with the split as best as possible...


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Stop helping him, take care of yourself.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Acoa said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You need to come 1st. before her for sure, but also before anything else in his life. If he can't demonstrate that, he doesn't deserve your trust.
> 
> ...


im so sorry you are dealing with this crap too. so selfish an immature. these cheaters do not realize the gift they have been given witha second chance, they should cherish it every day for the rest of their life with you. i cant stand it. i hope u have better luck than i am, i really really do.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> shaggy, what if he says it wasnt about her? she didnt answer, he didnt leave a message, but he immediately felt better. he said it was for him. he was being selfish and now he feels his wall towards me coming down.


Then, he is lying to you.

How do you know she didn't answer? How do you know he didn't leave a message? How do you know that he wasn't trying to reconnect with her and only let her go because she rejected him? 

This is definitely a bad thing. He shouldn't be giving a rat's tail about her and should be devoting his energy to you at this point. Don't let this go without really making an effort to figure out why he has betrayed you a second time?

Ask yourself if you want to be there in case he does this a third time?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> he did support me through being unemployed for 3 months. he makes very little money and struggled alot. but thats what couples do for each other, right?


Yes. This isn't a favor he has done for you. As your spouse, he is supposed to pick up the slack when you can't; just as you are supposed to do so for him. You should be able to rely on him without thinking his given you some big gift.



TryingToHeal said:


> i jsut found out this morning. im going to take some time, sleep on the couch, before making a final decision.


Why are YOU the one sleeping on the couch when he has done the transgressing? If you're not kicking him out for this behavior, then at least kick him out of the bedroom. You're making things way too easy on him. You're sending the message that the problem lies with your objection, not with his breach of your contract. You gave him a chance. Get strong and let him know that you won't tolerate his nonsense. 

A man will not be faithful to a woman he does not respect. A man is less likely to respect a woman who doesn't respect herself enough to object when she has been mistreated.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

moxy said:


> Why are YOU the one sleeping on the couch when he has done the transgressing? If you're not kicking him out for this behavior, then at least kick him out of the bedroom. You're making things way too easy on him. You're sending the message that the problem lies with your objection, not with his breach of your contract. You gave him a chance. Get strong and let him know that you won't tolerate his nonsense.
> 
> A man will not be faithful to a woman he does not respect. A man is less likely to respect a woman who doesn't respect herself enough to object when she has been mistreated.


im on the couch by my choice. i dont want to sleep in our bed. the couch feels better to me bc our bed reminds me of us, and its too hard to separate from all the memories. otherwise i would tell him to take the couch and he would. i need to clear my head but want to stay home...for now...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> mattmatt, thats exactly what he says. she totally manipulated him, he was so weak. not that that excuses it. but i never let him call her or send her a nc letter. could that be why all this lingered for him adn he felt there was no other way to get rid of the guilt than to try to apologize to her?
> 
> still, it doesnt make sense that he didnt even care that she accepted the apology, much less didnt hear it cuz she didnt answer. that i dont get. seems like an empty meaningless apology and how that made him feel better i dont get...was it that he knew he at least tried??
> 
> ...


She moved about as far as you can in England, back to her home town.

My guilt was lessened when it transpired the OW had, basically, set her mind on catching me as she thought I would be a good father for her two children. Even *BEFORE* my wife had her affair and I had my affair, she had -it turned out!- told her two children that, one day, I would be their new daddy! 

We all met through work. My wife and she had been best friends until, oh... s**t! Just now, it has occurred to me 22/23 years later, that they became sworn enemies after I proposed to my wife in 1989! Ah! even now, all these years later, it all falls into place!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

One question: Did you allow him a NC letter or a final phone call, or did you just say when you caught the (text/email/call) that he could never call her again?

Just asking. Not defending.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

JCD said:


> One question: Did you allow him a NC letter or a final phone call, or did you just say when you caught the (text/email/call) that he could never call her again?
> 
> Just asking. Not defending.


i know ur not defending. neither am i. i am JUST trying to figure this out!! and u have a good point. i didnt allow him a nc letter or final phone call. we've since talked and i realize he needed to do it. he even told me he felt he really needed to do it just a few weeks after dday, and i shut him down. 

i didnt think it might be something he needed that he would eventually do no matter what. i could have listened to the phone call. or seen the letter. and known it was happening. its of course his fault that i was denied that opportunity, he still should ahve told me he was going to do it even though i didnt want him too. lesson learned for both of us (hopefully).

he knows its the lying and hiding it that really bothers me. what sucks is that after about 7 months from dday, i was really starting to feel happy again. and now I am set back about 6 months, feeling insecure and i not trusting him. its not as bad a dday, but it sure is flooding me with bad memories since the same feelings are resurfacing, even if to a lesser degree. 

hes got to start proving it to me, no more total patience from me. i see now how letting him do whatever he needs and keep me at a distance is potentially destructive to me, and that he may want to try, but cant. ive told him i cant take him doing what he needs to do without considering my feelings and us finding a way together that wont hurt either one of us. its got to be a partnership - i need to see less "me me me". and there cannot be secrets or lying. i told him to really think about it, bc if he just cant right now we are better off separating instead of me hurting more bc hes gotta do what hes gotta do no matter how that hurts me. its just not fair or healthy.

Since he says this had supposedely lifted a huge weight off his shoulders, and made his wall towards me fall, i have some hope. i did notice a difference in him that dates back to the day he called her - all of the sudden he was genuinely listening to me, attentive, more at ease, happy even instead of depressed. hes also now willing to read some of the books I have that helped me understand this better.

time will tell. ill know if hes for real, ill know if hes still hesitating. i just didnt realize how his hesitations were going to manifest, and that he could really hurt me again. now im on guard.

thanks again for all the feedback. this is really helping me figure this out and sort through whats going on and whats best for me.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She moved about as far as you can in England, back to her home town.
> 
> My guilt was lessened when it transpired the OW had, basically, set her mind on catching me as she thought I would be a good father for her two children. Even *BEFORE* my wife had her affair and I had my affair, she had -it turned out!- told her two children that, one day, I would be their new daddy!
> 
> We all met through work. My wife and she had been best friends until, oh... s**t! Just now, it has occurred to me 22/23 years later, that they became sworn enemies after I proposed to my wife in 1989! Ah! even now, all these years later, it all falls into place!


wow, did this help u too? i can only hope all my rambling helped someone else!!! uve helped me a ton. thanks again


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

and mattmatt, that is insane that she told her children that!!! poor kids. they will prob be all screwed up from a mom like her...

u dodged a bullet there it seems!!  *stating the obvious*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Here is the thing. I am a scumlord like your husband. I had an emotional affair/really close friend (Maybe I'm still in a fog, but we never sexted or anything) In any event, it was an emotional affair because it was hurting my wife and kids. That is enough to make it wrong.

That being said, I am speaking as a person who probably feels what your husband feels. My wife weened me off of her slowly and allowed me to say good bye.

Because here's the thing: he did/does care about her. That's a fact and I'm sorry to say it. If you had a best girlfriend who one day set you up on a blind date without telling you and upset your husband enough for him to demand you drop her, would you want to say good bye or would you just drop her from your social network and block her cellphone number? Would your friend of X years deserve an explanation?

Now, YOU feel she doesn't deseve squat and your husband should not think more about HER feelings then yours. But there is also a self image problem. He doesn't want to see himself as someone who treats someone else so shabbily (Yes, he should have thought that way about YOU TOO. Affairs screw things up. What can I say?)

My advice, which is totally contradictory, is to ask him to draft (hand write) a NC letter to the woman. Let him explain the matter to her in whatever words he wants. Let him know you want to look it over so he doesn't gush, but remove the poison. Help him restore his self image of honor. Tell him you demand that he treat you with honor, consideration and dignity and because of that, he needs to treat other people the same way so he can get this out of his system finally and forever.

Then you guys spend the day deleting texts, 'their' songs (yes, they have one. I just deleted ours...on my own may I add), and any pictures et all that he has.

I hope this helps


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Make him a nice dinner and lift the lid for him to some nice moist divorce papers. 

You need to make him feel awful for this. He NEEDS to respect you.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

...I was about to go on about my thoughts and feelings since I had a very inappropriate friendship that stressed everyone around me, until I walked away from her....but JCD really captured my situation. 

...I also feel that too often on this site, things are explained as absolutes, and that things are always this way or that, and that once a couple starts to R, then magically the person who has caused the problem hates the OW/OM overnight. It just does not work like that from my perspective. I imagine that your husband still has a certain level of fondness for the OW.....that is just reality. Certainly, it is one reason that R is hard for many. The intensity of the feeling will diminish over time.....but it hangs around a bit, and surfaces once in a while......and your husband gave in to an impulse during a weak moment. And you know, I fight that impulse time after time.....wish I could explain it...but I haven't given in yet, but no promises since I can't get a handle on it....anyway...your husband probably has no good answer since he probably is truly clueless on how to deal with this type of lingering thought. Maybe just the chance to talk openly with you about his lingering feelings would help, even though it would be tough for you to hear out loud. But I would encourage you to not give up on him...take care.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Exactly. The OW is probably not the fountainhead of evil. She is/was doing YOU wrong. It isn't how your husband sees her either.

It's a slow process. I've been 8 months with no contact and I still have an urge to talk to her. Obviously it's not uncontrollable, but it's there.

This is the reason so many women divorce after infidelity: because they've done the emotional engagement BEFORE they cheat. It's a drug they can't leave, which is why EAs for men are just as dangerous in their way.

A thing can be hurtful without being evil. That is how your hubby probably sees the situation. Get this over and done with. It will take time.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

so what do we do if he doesnt know where she lives? She was living with a friend last he knew...though come to think of it i think he helped her move some things. oh ick. i hate these memories. but still, i dont think he remembers the place...so then what?

he said he felt a lot better just making the call, could that be true? just trying was enough for him? i know no one person is the same as another, so asking that is probably not going to be answered here...im just doubting things and wondering about things like this. 

i talked to our mc briefly who said she is not sure he is going anywhere and isnt sure he should come anymore...whoa. i told her he said he would read a book i read that helped. she said he has low lying depression and she said i am rescuing him and he needs to take some action himself. she thinks we will just live as roomates and not partners. i told her he says he feels alot better, and that hes committed and doesnt want to consider separating anymore (he wavered at times before) and feels like he can open up to me now. she told us we need to come up with at least one relationship goal for our next appointment. suggestions?

i was feeling more needy that usual today. i had an awful weekend with really bad sleep and work has been rough the last two days. i asked him for reassurance, which i got...im just scared he'll stop doing it and im on guard. ive asked him to tell me each day he loves me and is committed to me, and he forgets. not that he doesnt say it, but i want it ever day for a while to help me feel better and get over the anxiety. he says he gets in work mode, and i know he is trying to regain himself after being so passive for years. so i dont get mad, but i wish he would be more consistant...


thanks for the advice guys...much appreciated 
i just dont know. today is not an easy day.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

....affairs go hand in hand with low self esteem; and low self-esteem is a close companion to depression.....if you can still believe at all in your husband, give him a save haven to talk out loud and try to figure it all out......it will be tough, but maybe a worth while investment. What he did is a step backwards, but really not a destruction of your efforts to R....good luck


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ....affairs go hand in hand with low self esteem; and low self-esteem is a close companion to depression.....if you can still believe at all in your husband, give him a save haven to talk out loud and try to figure it all out......it will be tough, but maybe a worth while investment. What he did is a step backwards, but really not a destruction of your efforts to R....good luck


yea his self esteem is low. i am trying my best to give him a safe haven, i do know i didnt for years. i was the agressive to his passive. i felt pushed to the edge trying to get a reaction and emotion out of him...not good. unhealthy for sure. it does feel much healthier these days...we both struggle with tone tho. i just try to listen and not interrupt, thank him for talking with me when he does. i dont know what else to do...i appreciate the support thanks


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> yea his self esteem is low. i am trying my best to give him a safe haven, i do know i didnt for years. i was the agressive to his passive. i felt pushed to the edge trying to get a reaction and emotion out of him...not good. unhealthy for sure. it does feel much healthier these days...we both struggle with tone tho. i just try to listen and not interrupt, thank him for talking with me when he does. i dont know what else to do...i appreciate the support thanks


...I would bet he feels a lot of guilt about what he did, but does not know where to go as a next step......if you are really ok with it, letting him discuss all of his feelings will help.......I am guessing that it will all turn out fine. But backwards steps will happen from time to time....it will happen, so expect it....

and for what its worth, I think in these cases that the emotional feelings he had for the OW where not because of anything you were lacking or were doing, but were the result of him seeking someone to tell him he was not an "unworthy" person.......low self esteem is a real pain in the rear....just ask my wife.....


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Sadly, i found something in the internet history the other day that showed he has been going on a webcam site and paying to be teased by internet *****s. its so freaking lame. he sits there and tells them they have cool hair and beautiful eyes and they made his week, etc etc. meanwhgile he has been telling me he doesnt have money to take me on dates and i have been patiently accepting it cuz i know he took a 33% paycut 5 months ago to go after a job that lets him do what hes always wanted to.

i confronted him and told him its cheating in my eyes. he is interacting with live females saying all the things to them that i want from him. he is giving them his sexual energy, acting like he is single. the only difference between what he is doing now and what he did by cheating with a coworker is that he saved me risk of an STD and himself a suprise unwanted pregnancy. i feel awful. i read the things he said and imagine him interacting with them and i get so angry and sad. i barely ate for the last day and couldnt sleep, experienced head to toe shaking, etc. I told him i cant do this anymore, that i am breaking and he is not good for me. told him he wants to act single, go be single. i deserve so much more.

i told him he is lying to himself and me, and i am tired of catching him hurting me, and then his excuse is that for years i made him feel bad and i dont want him. i told him thats not true. the second he told me how bad he felt i begged for forgivness and recognized my wrongs IMMEDIATELY and stopped being emotionally explosive and controlling. yes we had problems, yes i treated him badly, but that is not an excuse to have an affair. and his telling himself those same things now is lying to himself cuz ive been so good to him for 10 months, and he is not recognizing it. hes hindering our recovery because he cant forgive me and keeps letting fear and resentment take over his brain. he needs help, he holds a grudge like no one i have ever seen.

he argued at first but once he realized i wasnt buying it or letting it go, he broke down. he begged me not to leave him. said he never wanted to hurt me, only wanted to take care of me. doesnt want to do anything more than that. i told him he may want to do this, but it seems he cant. he needs help. wanting something and actually doing what needs to be done to get it are two different things. he said he'll try harder. i told him i dont beleive him.

he admitted finally that he did leave her a message, that it said he was working on changing, that he was sorry he treated her the way he did, that he should have put up boundaries and never gone there with her, that he was vulnerable, that he was sorry and he hoped she could forgive him. i said great, and what about the forgiveness from me? u threw it away! and now whats gonna happen if she calls you back? he said she wont. i said it doesnt matter what she does, it matters what you will do IF she does. He said he wont answer. 
then he went back to his phone account on the website and went to block her number again (he unblocked it 1 month in R saying he needed to be strong and not call her, and blocking her was the easy way. i told him over and over that block was for me, it was to lessen my anxiety, to prevent him from caving in weak moments, and to prevent him from having to deal with contact from her.) i told him thats just another reminder of her number. this was all last nite, and now i am rethinking this and want him to block her. but i want the password to his phone account, i want to change it and have me be the one who can add and remove it. but wonder, shoulnt he be accountable??? just get records of his texts sent to me every month, and records of his phone call sent to? he needs to be able to restrain himself, it feels like babysitting to pur the block up. but i dont want her to call adn leave a message and set him back bc he hears her voice. dont know what to do!!!

i told him he needs to go to individual therapy and deal with his inability to be totally honest and his trouble with finding forgiveness and holding onto resentment, getting stuck in negative thought patterns, etc. he told me his mom has been telling him he needs it too. our MC has also told him that now for the last 4 sessions or so. so he finally called our MC and asked to have an individual session w her as she had offered several times.

i told him how my healing has been on hold since 3 weeks after dday, and ive told him this several times and hes been very selfish, but this time said he wants to do what i need. will hug me whenever i need it. initiate hugs and kisses. (though i dont want kisses from him right now AGAIN bc im so hurt..) plan dates, read books, go to IC, tell me every day he is lucky to have been given another chance, etc. i told him i simply do not beleive it. ive heard it before. ive lost so much faith in him. i have nothing left to give, hes been beating me up and withdrawing love for months now and im empty. he said he will focus on healing himself for real and healing me now. this was a bigger wakup call for him that DDAY.

i dont know what to believe. i know on DDAY i was angry but so exausted bc i thought i was dealing with an EA for three months and DDAY was finding out it was a PA too. So i felt relief that i knew the whole story, things made sense now, and i came around after about a week, and three weeks later was ready to go for full on R. this time i just dont beleive it. maybe the way i am reacting will be the reason he actually gets it this time, but i dont even know if he really gets it. hes gone and changed his mind before, adn this all sounds familiar. except that this time he read me the reading on forgiveness from our MC and said the whole thing finally makes sense, and only peices did before. he sees he has been going for quick fixes to feel better, but hasnt been doing the real hard work to actually get better and wants to work on it harder, try harder.

sooooo not sure what to think. our lease is up for renewal at the end of november and i suppose i can see how he acts for the next several weeks...and maybe that will tell me something. but im just so much less trusting this time. we spent 6 months rebuilding trust and he threw it away. it seems so much harder now. i told him i dont have anything to give. i cant be what he wants right now and hes gonna have to accept that. and keep trying anyway. im ready to move out if ANYTHING changes because ive lost so much self respect and sleep and health that i refuse to let him take another ounce. either he fills me up and really grows up this time or im gone. its the first time ive felt very resolved about this. this is different...i guess i needed to feel so bad before i could realize how bad it would all make me feel. that 20/20 hindsight always kicks me just right...ug.

god bless u if you are still reading this. god i just need to vent so badly. and i dont beleive him, not sure what to do about that. thoughts?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My first thought is he really really isn't getting it. He's not putting the effort expected by a grownup to fix what they've broke.

I think you can and should hold him to a higher standard than he seems willing to live up to. His begging etc, is old and tired and if you keep giving him chances that he blows through that he is simply learning that he can do anything and get a away with it by begging.

That's not what someone does when they value the relationship they are in.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

JCD, seems he got it out in his message. i dont think he needs to write a letter anymore. now that he admitted he did leave a message, i know what he said, and when he tells me he feels so much better it makes sense. he did try to restore his self honor, as you very smartly put it. so what now??? block her calls, texts? god. when does this end???? its so unfair from my perspective. if he hurts cuz he knows he hurt her and he cared about her, too bad!!! you put yourself in that situation! you brought it on yourself! why should i ahve to sufffer so you can feel better?? 

and ya know what? he did lie to her and tell her that we were just roomates. but she and i talked three times, once becasue i was just figuring out it was an EA, and he spent Christmas night with her. After DDAY, i learned they spent that night kissing. When i called her to ask if he was with her that night, she said ya, but they were "just friends, call it what i want." made me seem crazy. friends dont kiss!!! so she was lying right along with him!! she knew what she was doing!! i think part of his problem is also that he cant handle people being upset with him, that he lacks the self respect to stand up to someone who makes him feel guilty when they are not faultless themselves. and thats how this girl treated him post dday. im so so so so mad!!!!


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> My first thought is he really really isn't getting it. He's not putting the effort expected by a grownup to fix what they've broke.
> 
> I think you can and should hold him to a higher standard than he seems willing to live up to. His begging etc, is old and tired and if you keep giving him chances that he blows through that he is simply learning that he can do anything and get a away with it by begging.
> 
> That's not what someone does when they value the relationship they are in.


yea, thats what i told him yesterday. and by the end he realized he really wasnt getting it, and it seems he finally does get it for real now, but it almost like its too late. i feel so far removed from trusting him. i dont know if he will be able to handle my distance and mistrust, which he needs to deal with and accept. he really needs to completely earn it again. starting from the bottom. i always said time will tell before, but im not sure he deserves that anymore. this seems more advanced that before but im scared ima be made a fool of and have wasted more time. i want to set a time limit but dont know what is appropriate. 

what higher standard do you mean? I have already decided he needs to do everything i need, no exceptions. he changes his mind, he is letting me go. no more leniency. is there more i need to consider? i feel like its so important i do this right this time...in hindsight i want tough enough on him last time and ive ended up hurt again. dont want to put myself through this again.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> My first thought is he really really isn't getting it. He's not putting the effort expected by a grownup to fix what they've broke.
> 
> I think you can and should hold him to a higher standard than he seems willing to live up to. His begging etc, is old and tired and if you keep giving him chances that he blows through that he is simply learning that he can do anything and get a away with it by begging.
> 
> That's not what someone does when they value the relationship they are in.


Exactly. Why should he apologize to OW? Why not apologize to you and repair the damage done? Why not help you heal, or worry about you instead of himself trying to get himself off in the land of rainbows unicorns and unlimited colors of cotton candy and worrying too much about OW and other's feelings before his other half's.

If he doesn't focus on helping you heal and repair then you need to start focusing on yourself and healing yourself and moving on without him. 

Your husband will see this new you, stronger you, better you, independent you and feel far left behind. Most cases it wakes them up, and you can set some grounds for R but as of now it seems he does not know the effect of worry/sadness/anger etc etc he has/is causing you.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

He spent the night with another woman, and all they did was kiss? I would if you haven't have a check up done for peace of mind. I don't want to dampen this further but STD's are serious and you don't really know what he's up to. Sounds like he's unwilling to accept the gravity of the situation and isn't really making decisions using any logical pattern.

For your own sake, if you have the energy, this is going to be a long hold out. You're probably going to spend the next several years getting past the big stuff and as others have said the rest of the marriage forgetting it. He's changed the dynamic in a way that cannot be undone. 

The webcam stuff is gross. Porn is one thing, but webcam is definitely cheating.

My opinion, wait out the next few weeks and see if IC helps. See if the counselor thinks he's got any spine, otherwise prep yourself for the outside world. I couldn't imagine doing most of those things let alone after I'd been given a second chance.

Hang in there and I'm sure that it'll get better, alone or together, it'll work out.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

TryingToHeal said:


> what higher standard do you mean? I have already decided he needs to do everything i need, no exceptions. he changes his mind, he is letting me go. no more leniency. is there more i need to consider? i feel like its so important i do this right this time...in hindsight i want tough enough on him last time and ive ended up hurt again. dont want to put myself through this again.


I mean that honestly his last reasonable chance for R with you was a couple of bad things ago. you keep giving him one more chance it seems.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

mtts, that night was the first nite the hung out. he came home very very late and told me he was with a friend. of course that was the first big lie, and i know what really happened now. that they made out alot that night but he slept with her for the first time a week later. i got al the details i wanted just after dday. its a long story but that was the beginning. i know he full on cheated, and had a std test done right away when (as i see it) the real dday happened and i found out it was a pa/ea not just an ea. thank god she was clean. and i made him get one too, i have seen the results, we are both fine. thank god.

yea. i need to see what happens with his ic. i told him even if he says he wants to try harder, he clearly needs help and i need him to get into ic again and start relly spending time working on the "homework" he gets there. 24 hours later he is very remorseful and doing what i need from him...but hell 24 hours aint much. 

he is facing consequences, i dont want to be physical with him except for hugs and i have told him i dont trust him. after about 5months of me being so open to him in this area and him wasting his chance being all resentful and rejecting me/not being into it, hes left me feeling low, and this webcam crap is awful. its totally cheating. 

im on guard, and hes got to earn his way back again, no excuses. and its not going to be as quick as before, cuz this is basically DDay 2. i want text records starting from the first dday, and he ordered them. he is expressing gratitude for the chance he has been given, etc. 

ive told him its all this or nothing cuz i either get what i need from him or i go heal alone. he just got away with breaking some of my rules before, because i didnt realize that that wasnt working for me till it wasnt, and upon getting suspicious that something was up at that point, i found out about the things in this thread. its uncovered that he was not really trying all the way, and its opened my eyes to what needs to happen, which is he gets more help for his personal problems, cuz thats why he is depressed, having trouble forgiving, letting go of his grudge against me, etc. 

ive made amends for our troubles before his affair. i continue to hold myself accountable and treat him well. there is nothing left causing trouble with our reconciliation except him. i know it doesnt matter what his excuse is anymore, cuz its just an excuse, not helping me/us heal. even if its that he is depressed or needs me to heal him, he has to do what i need too, all the way, or hes proving he cant handle this. eyes wide open. hope i get sleep tonight. thanks all for the input.


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