# just don't understand



## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

My wife and I are seperated about to officially be divorced Nov. 4. She filed, I don't want the divorce. I admit I got complacent in the marriage and didn't show enough love and appreciation as I should have(obviously or we wouldn't be where we are). I never stopped loving my wife or our 2 children, I guess I just didn't show it enough. we sperated in early may and at first I did the usual begging and pleading, later I found out that is what you don't want to do, so I backed off. When I have the kids on my weekends she said she doesn't do good without them and she can't sleep, she feels alone. I told her that I love her and don't want this and that we can work on our problems. She said it is just weird that I want to work on the relationship now, that she can't go backwards, and it is too little too late. I just can't understand how a parent who misses their kids so much is willing to see them half the time and give up on the marriage. She says she has worked on our marriage the last 11 years and she is exhausted and has no work left in her. She said she doesn't know if she can forgive herself for the misfortune that this will affect our kids (10 and 6), but is not willing to stay and work on the marriage. There is no other man that I know of and no drinking, drugs or anything of the sort, just that I haven't been there for her emotionally and she says we have grown apart. I just don't understand how you can just give up on your marriage and be willing to see your kids half of the time, but then cry because you don't do good without the kids. I guess she has been hurt by me more than the hurt of missing our kids? not physicallly but emotionally hurt (not feeling loved).


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## Cheesy (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi bowhunter, I'm in a very similar situation, the only difference is that my wife has another man but i've had exactly what you've had, she's worked on the marraige but I haven't, now i've lost her she doesn't understand why i suddenly want to do it and that it is too little too late. it's very difficult. You'll hear a lot on this forum about blame shifting and her making you feel bad for all the things you didn't do but I am with you in that i do know that i could have done more and that makes it harder to deal with.

I don't know what the solution is...are you 100% sure there isn't another man involved?


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm right there with you. She is saying the same things mine is, but there is also another man. I take exception to the working on the marriage language. The first problem is that you both have been working on it, but she has been unhappy and didn't own up to it. You can't fix anything you don't know about. Secondly, every marriage has issues and problems and they are not going away on their own. So if she wants to be happy in a relationship she is going to have to WORK on something. I got the whole I'm going to miss the kids and be depressed without them thing too. In my situation, the STBXW is choosing between regrets, and choosing the regret of ending a marriage which will profoundly affecting everyone's life over the regret of not having her boyfriend. I don't understand that either, but then I'm being logical, rational, and understand the consiquences of my actions.


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## Anewlife (Sep 15, 2011)

I got the same crap. Check the cell phone bill. I found 1400 texts to some clown named Bill. Usually another guy when this crap happens. Good luck.


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## Avalon (Jul 5, 2011)

From a woman's perspective... at least in my case, I'm sick to death of being the "glue" that has held our family together the last 8 years out of a 23-year marriage. Husband is addicted to his job and the Internet, he provides well financially but that is the entire extent of his participation in family. There is no EA or PA on either of our parts. I know this because he is either at work or at home, (and works about half of his time at home) 100% of the time. No friends, no hobbies, no interests, no life.

He doesn't interact with our kids beyond "please pass the salt." He and I talk a bit, but it's all very superficial, daily household stuff. When I tell him that I'm unhappy or try to talk about a difficult subject (i.e. our marriage) he totally closes up and won't talk. Essentially, I'm married now to a complete stranger. He has distanced himself sooooo much emotionally over the past several years that if he came up to me today and said he wanted to work things through, I honestly don't know if I'd want to try to patch things up. 

As I've mentioned in other posts... I feel like I've been beating my head against a brick wall for years. After so many times, you start to realize that it hurts, and that the brick wall isn't going to move or give, even though you've been trying for years. Enough times of doing that, and you give up hope and go into self-preservation mode.

Just my .02 cents from a woman's perspective.


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## Anewlife (Sep 15, 2011)

That's what happened to me. She could not express her frustrations. Kept them pent up and built a wall. Her EA turned into an Exit Affair.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't understand it either. I get the same garbage. Of course, there is another man in my case. I guess we just have to get over trying to understand it. It will drive you absolutely insane. I struggle with that a lot.


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## Anewlife (Sep 15, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> I don't understand it either. I get the same garbage. Of course, there is another man in my case. I guess we just have to get over trying to understand it. It will drive you absolutely insane. I struggle with that a lot.


I agree about the "try to understand" part. I finally realized....she digs somebody else. 13 years (1/3 of my life) gone in the "Experience" folder.


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## Lostouthere (Aug 24, 2011)

Yep I heard the same crap too and it was another man involved. Like Hurting said do not try to understand it because it will never make sense and you will loose any that you have left.


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

Avalon said:


> From a woman's perspective... at least in my case, I'm sick to death of being the "glue" that has held our family together the last 8 years out of a 23-year marriage. Husband is addicted to his job and the Internet, he provides well financially but that is the entire extent of his participation in family. There is no EA or PA on either of our parts. I know this because he is either at work or at home, (and works about half of his time at home) 100% of the time. No friends, no hobbies, no interests, no life.
> 
> He doesn't interact with our kids beyond "please pass the salt." He and I talk a bit, but it's all very superficial, daily household stuff. When I tell him that I'm unhappy or try to talk about a difficult subject (i.e. our marriage) he totally closes up and won't talk. Essentially, I'm married now to a complete stranger. He has distanced himself sooooo much emotionally over the past several years that if he came up to me today and said he wanted to work things through, I honestly don't know if I'd want to try to patch things up.
> 
> ...


Ok, fair enough. You've told the internet, but it can't fix anything. Lets take this down the road a bit. You've reached the point where your miserable and you don't want to work on your marriage. You find the company of another man appealing and tell yourself that your marriage is over, that you should be happy and give yourself permission to indulge those feelings. Your in an EA before you know it then a PA. Then the reality that you are going to harm your family by divorce sets in and you think about the financial impact to the slippery slope. You continue to lie, deceave, and subvert your true feelings. All while your husband has resigned himself to the life he built. Providing with every fiber of his being and like you looking for an escape through TV/Internet because he's exausted and your not engaging him at all. He'll be blindsided. Distraught that the expectations he thought were required weren't what was really important to YOU. He'll have anxiety, panic attacks, and uncontrolable grief over the loss of his world. All while you've built a new one. All of this over what? The fact that he works too much during a bad economy (that has been around for 4 year) or that he is spending too much time on the internet and not enough on you?

This isn't implausable. It is what happened to me. You are actively lying to your spouse by not telling him the gravety of your feelings or your intentions. Get off the computer, facebook, spades and go talk to him. He deserves that much.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

There's really nothing to understand here except that your marriages are under attack and you need to fight back with every fiber of your body and all the mental and emotional strength you have if you want to get them back.

While you're feeling sorry for yourselves, the biggest losers in this sad drama are your kids. Followed by your wives. In spite of how you feel right now, the man is almost always benefited in the long term by divorce.

Your wife is not the enemy. Fighting it out with her is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Leaving her behind to find someone else is even worse. Work and the internet didn't cause this to happen but not directing your time where it is needed the most allowed it to happen. Put a stop to this now. It's never too late until you decide to give up so don't do it. Make yourself loveable. Commit to really do what is really takes to put this all back together. Quit blaming and start healing, starting with yourselves


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

I can agree with you to a point. Change is required but it needs to come from both sides, not just us. I have noticed my failings and I'm make strides to change. Becoming more engaged with the kids, around the house, and modifying how I relate to her. But she's mentally checked out, obsessed with someone else, and filed for divorce. I want my marriage to work. I want my family to survive. I'm owning my side of the relationship and being better. But I can't change her mind or control what she does. I also can't be married alone. Please, tell me how I can do that. She isn't my enemy. She's trying to be my enemy in the worst way.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

gearhead65 said:


> Ok, fair enough. You've told the internet, but it can't fix anything. Lets take this down the road a bit. You've reached the point where your miserable and you don't want to work on your marriage. You find the company of another man appealing and tell yourself that your marriage is over, that you should be happy and give yourself permission to indulge those feelings. Your in an EA before you know it then a PA. Then the reality that you are going to harm your family by divorce sets in and you think about the financial impact to the slippery slope. You continue to lie, deceave, and subvert your true feelings. All while your husband has resigned himself to the life he built. Providing with every fiber of his being and like you looking for an escape through TV/Internet because he's exausted and your not engaging him at all. He'll be blindsided. Distraught that the expectations he thought were required weren't what was really important to YOU. He'll have anxiety, panic attacks, and uncontrolable grief over the loss of his world. All while you've built a new one. All of this over what? The fact that he works too much during a bad economy (that has been around for 4 year) or that he is spending too much time on the internet and not enough on you?
> 
> This isn't implausable. It is what happened to me. You are actively lying to your spouse by not telling him the gravety of your feelings or your intentions. Get off the computer, facebook, spades and go talk to him. He deserves that much.


Perhaps you should re-read her post... she HAD being trying to talk to him for years... to no avail. I was much in the same boat... it took a the drastic measure of a separation and I asked him to leave to really sink my point home. Actions speak louder than words... and sometimes it has to go this far for it to work. As my H tells me... sometimes it takes a good swift blow to the head for reality to sink in... and he is so thankful I didn't just throw in the towel. 

There was no EA or PA.. no way in hell I was going to be looking at the grass no matter where the fence was!! Early in the separation I had no desire for ANY man.. I was sick and tired of them...

however now, 9 months separated, my H has been seriously working on himself through IC and our MC... he's starting to catch my eye again...


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

avalon if I didn't know better I would think you are my stbxw, except for the kds part, I have and always will be involved with my kids. thanks for your perspective.

ten, I absolutely agree, I'm fighting the good fight. Lately I have tried to be upbeat when I am around, which is quite often beause of kids activities, and she told me the other day that it just makes her mad that she couldn't bring out this personality in me when we were in the marriage. I told her that if my being in a good mood was any indication that I wanted this that that was not the case. In my mind I was in a good mood most of the time, but I guess she was so miserable(her words) that she seen me as being miserable also.


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

I read it and I understand what is being said, except women tend to leave out the most important part. Like, "I need you to do _____." Where it should be, "I need you to do _____, or I'm not going to be able to be in our marriage anymore." You leave out the consiquence and expect us to read between the lines. Guys can't do that. Plus, I would wager that a lot of the time women don't really understand what they want or need until it is too late. I'm glad that you two were able to work it out, but not all women are like you. Some can't/won't be willing to give it a chance or communicate effectively to head off the really dangerous stuff.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

rose, glad to hear.That is what I told my wife, that you see things differently when you have to leave your family. I have made changes with the kids, I was always involved with them, I hug them more and tell them I love them more now. I would love to do that with my wife, but as she says it is too little, too late and she can't go backwards. When you are on the outside looking in it really does change you, I just wish she would hang on to reap the rewards of that change and keep our family together.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

gearhead65 said:


> But she's mentally checked out, obsessed with someone else, and filed for divorce. .. But I can't change her mind or control what she does. I also can't be married alone. Please, tell me how I can do that.


There's just no way the other guy can compete with you if you're 110 percent on your game. You're right, you can't change or control her but you can change and control yourself. Make yourself into someone she wants and she'll change her mind on her own. You have to be better than better. You have to be great. You have to own more than what you call your side, you have to own everything you can. Take it, it's yours. You let it go and you can take it all back starting now, starting with yourself


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I disagree. You can't compete with fantasy. The affair is simply fantasy. They see no wrong with the affair partner, yet no right with their spouse. There is no competing with the fantasy.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

gearhead65 said:


> I read it and I understand what is being said, except women tend to leave out the most important part. Like, "I need you to do _____." Where it should be, "I need you to do _____, or I'm not going to be able to be in our marriage anymore." You leave out the consiquence and expect us to read between the lines. Guys can't do that. Plus, I would wager that a lot of the time women don't really understand what they want or need until it is too late. I'm glad that you two were able to work it out, but not all women are like you. Some can't/won't be willing to give it a chance or communicate effectively to head off the really dangerous stuff.


Hmmmm... I do not believe a marriage by ultimatums is a solid foundation in personal relationships. Like I said, I had to resort to drastic measures in this case. I definately knew what I wanted/needed in a mate... and my expectations were clearly defined and expressed... even to to the point of "I need you to do "______", because I FEEL "______". And yes this failed too... it is very difficult when a spouse completely shuts down, and/or has no empathy, and/or is so focused on one aspect in life all else falls aside. I'm not saying that all men are like this, but in mine and Avalons case... it does seem like brick wall...


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> There's just no way the other guy can compete with you if you're 110 percent on your game. You're right, you can't change or control her but you can change and control yourself. Make yourself into someone she wants and she'll change her mind on her own. You have to be better than better. You have to be great. You have to own more than what you call your side, you have to own everything you can. Take it, it's yours. You let it go and you can take it all back starting now, starting with yourself


Absolutely! What my H has done that has worked the best for me is firstly, regain control of his life and setting his priorities in line with his values. I respect him greatly for becoming a better man. Second, little tidbits of his behaviour change have started to shine through when it comes to relating to "us"... knowing that these little actions and words come GENUiNELY(meaning that the words and actions are not for appeasement for the spouse) from HIS heart lands me on my ass in a huge WOW factor! Thirdly, he is more intune with his children and their lives... and the children are thriving! 

Little steps that are taking time.. but so rewarding! 

Right now your wife is still so super pissed with you its going to take alot for her to see.. or if she wants to or not. Yes, she's distracted with the OM... doesn't mean you can't try to get her attention. Giving it your all, no matter what, is your attempt in good faith to repair the marriage... take heart in your efforts... you may not get your wife back... but you are a better man in the end.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

HurtinginTN said:


> I disagree. You can't compete with fantasy. The affair is simply fantasy. They see no wrong with the affair partner, yet no right with their spouse. There is no competing with the fantasy.


You are 100 percent correct here. You can't compete with fantasy on it's own terms. So compete on ground where reality can hold it's own.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

family and kids has always been huge priority for her and now just quit and give up half the time with kids? I will never understand how a parent can be willing give up half the time with their children when there are not major problems like abuse, cheating, drinking, drugs, or anything of the like and then cry because you miss the kids so much when you don't have them and not be willing to stay and work on the marriage. The other day she told me it wasn't a bad marriage. I wanted to say then why is it ending? I would have asked, but nothing I say or do is right, if I talk it is just fake conversation (her words), If I don't say much it is just confirming her decision (her words). I just can't do anything right in this situation.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Rose you are giving me hope, thank you.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> I disagree. You can't compete with fantasy. The affair is simply fantasy. They see no wrong with the affair partner, yet no right with their spouse. There is no competing with the fantasy.


What you deem is her fantasy is actually, right now, her reality! And for that case, the OP's too...doesn't make it right or wrong.. it is what it is...

I can think of two scenerios...

1) the OM has a quality personality trait inherent to him that she wants/needs that her husband does not or cannot possess. This is no slight to the H or W.. it is a self discovery that leads to a core personality compatibility factor. This is not a behavioural issue that can be changed. For any one person to expect something in another that has no way of existing is fruitless. No one should compromise their core true self, values and morals for another. I respect people too much to demand of them to change their true self for my needs.

2) Sadly, she may be emotionally exhausted in the marriage it is far beyond her capability to recover with you. It could very well be that her fear of being so deeply hurt again by you will forever be her wall. Of course this is no resolution for either of you... and sadly she will just bring this new fear to any future relationships...


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> Rose you are giving me hope, thank you.


Bow... there is always hope... I pray that your W will see this too!! 

Oh... and please make note of the order of priority... 

HIM
ME
KIDS

and... its not the quantity of time that counts...quantity will fluxuate... but as we all know... ITS ALL ABOUT THE QUALITY!!!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

and... its not the quantity of time that counts...quantity will fluxuate... but as we all know... ITS ALL ABOUT THE QUALITY!!![/QUOTE]

I see your point, But I don't want to miss one day or one hour or one minute.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> family and kids has always been huge priority for her and now just quit and give up half the time with kids? I will never understand how a parent can be willing give up half the time with their children when there are not major problems like abuse, cheating, drinking, drugs, or anything of the like and then cry because you miss the kids so much when you don't have them and not be willing to stay and work on the marriage. The other day she told me it wasn't a bad marriage. I wanted to say then why is it ending? I would have asked, but nothing I say or do is right, if I talk it is just fake conversation (her words), If I don't say much it is just confirming her decision (her words). I just can't do anything right in this situation.


You can't do anything right because she still pissed... patience... that may change..

She says your words are fake... means she FEELS (her PERCEPTION) is that you are not genuine... so.. play along if you will...

you sit down with her.. in a calm, gentle, yet firm and assertively say in love...

You: I truly love you
She: I don't believe you (be forgiving of her tone or attitude for it is born of pain and hurt)
You: I will prove it to you. I will "___________"

you fill in the blank and it must pertain to you and her... the marriage... not about the kids, the housework, etc... and it has to be something truely genuine and tangible, that you are absolutely capable of doing (even though it may be as scary as hell), that does not comprimise your core being, values and beliefs and not highly romantized. Saying "walking to the ends of the earth for you" is pointless... its intangible. And make note for your response is in the positive form.. not the negative. Do not reply in a manner of "I will NOT __________". 

AND BY GOD STICK TO YOU GUNS... AND DO IT!!!... not once, or twice... but forever!!!! Because a marriage IS forever!

hope this helps...


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I hope to do that soon, My sons birthday was saturday and they stayed with me friday night. we went over to the house saturday and my stbxw and I were working on his birthday cake. We bought a ice cream cake and we were turning it into a wwe wrestling ring with black twizzlers as corner posts and candy straws as the ropes. she cut part of the cake off to make it square and used part of the piece she cut off to use as steps to get into the ring. I said " that is pretty cool, I never thought of making steps, that is a good idea", she says " nothing you say is sincere". about 10 minutes later she says this is gonna sound weird but you need to leave and come back in a couple of hours, I need to be here with just the kids. I got mad, but didn't say anthing, told the kids bye and my son asked why I was leaving. I got in my truck pulled out of the driveway and turned the corner and pulled over shut my truck off and walked back in the house. My daughter asked what I forgot and I said nothing, I walked into the kitchen and calmly told her that it was my sons birthday and I'm going to spend the day with him and if she couldn't handle being around me she needed to leave, she said " you're an a$$hole", I said maybe but I'm not leaving. I guess she called her sister because she left with her to go get a coffee. She came back about 15 minutes later and said I don't care if you stay here, but you were just smothering me in the kitchen with your fake conversation. some of my sons friends came over for his birthday and we took them to lay laser tag. when we got back, she went straight to bed and I stayed with the kids. I checked on her and she said her sinuses were killing her. I got her some medicine and another blanket because she was freezing. I could see she was crying and I asked if she was alright and she said that she just has bad anxiety, I said anxiety over what and she just said her life, and she doesn't sleep at all without the kids there. I told her to get some rest and I would be there with the kids. she did let me touch her forehead to see if she had fever, it was really nice to touch her.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> I hope to do that soon, My sons birthday was saturday and they stayed with me friday night. we went over to the house saturday and my stbxw and I were working on his birthday cake. We bought a ice cream cake and we were turning it into a wwe wrestling ring with black twizzlers as corner posts and candy straws as the ropes. she cut part of the cake off to make it square and used part of the piece she cut off to use as steps to get into the ring. I said " that is pretty cool, I never thought of making steps, that is a good idea", she says " nothing you say is sincere". about 10 minutes later she says this is gonna sound weird but you need to leave and come back in a couple of hours, I need to be here with just the kids. I got mad, but didn't say anthing, told the kids bye and my son asked why I was leaving. I got in my truck pulled out of the driveway and turned the corner and pulled over shut my truck off and walked back in the house. My daughter asked what I forgot and I said nothing, I walked into the kitchen and calmly told her that it was my sons birthday and I'm going to spend the day with him and if she couldn't handle being around me she needed to leave, she said " you're an a$$hole", I said maybe but I'm not leaving. I guess she called her sister because she left with her to go get a coffee. She came back about 15 minutes later and said I don't care if you stay here, but you were just smothering me in the kitchen with your fake conversation. some of my sons friends came over for his birthday and we took them to lay laser tag. when we got back, she went straight to bed and I stayed with the kids. I checked on her and she said her sinuses were killing her. I got her some medicine and another blanket because she was freezing. I could see she was crying and I asked if she was alright and she said that she just has bad anxiety, I said anxiety over what and she just said her life, and she doesn't sleep at all without the kids there. I told her to get some rest and I would be there with the kids. she did let me touch her forehead to see if she had fever, it was really nice to touch her.


ahhhh... good reason to hope! Those fleeting moments of genuine loving touch is most needed... remember to remain calm no matter what words she assails you with... Read 1 Corinthians 13... they were probably were in your wedding service, if you had a Christian ceremony. There is no shame for you reaching out first... I find it very manly.. shows courage, confidence... shows her that you are paying attention to her.. being observant.. that you are beginning to listen!

None of this, "I will talk to her soon".... have faith, have courage... do it now! If you go out of your way, it proves your committment to this process of re-building..

and of course... you realize that her tears have nothing to do with sinuses.. and anxiety about the kids... she is still questioning herself if she is going to give up or not! 

Remember that she is possibly going through her own personal crisis... patience.. more than likely she is terrified about opening up to you.. doesn't want to get hurt again..

Bravo for your standing your ground at your son's birthday... you made the right choice.. you stood up for what you believed it. Do the same with your marriage... remember the fine line though... do not confuse confidence and committment with emotionally bullying... always keep the motives of your actions in mind... its about her and the marriage.

best wishes!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thank you Rose, I told her just the other day that through all the mean things she has said and the attitude she has had with me, I still love her and I always did and always will, love is among other things a choice and I choose to love her. Her sister called me the other day and told me she is still trying to talk to her and she said she told her that through all he has been through he still loves you, that has to mean something. Her sister said she said "what has he been through". Her sister said " he was kicked out of his home and seperated from his family." I really am proud of the way I have not really gotten mad through all of this, gotten really frustrated but haven't yelled or gotten mad and said things I would regret. I hope that counts for something in her eyes. She told me sunday that it is just weird that I want to work on the relationship now and she doesn't. I said did you think I would just say ok and walk away?


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

First let me say that I am sorry you are going through this. I just wanted to give my opinion from someone that has been there. 

My hubby did not hold up his side of the marraige,didn't respect me, did the bare minimum with the kids, and generally did the bare min. with me. It was like we were on one island and he on another. I finally got so emotionally drained and physically exhausted with all his nonsense that I didn't believe anything he said. I asked for a divorce. 

Mind you, I was not the angel with every bit of my attention focused on the hubby either. I was raising our two kids and all the responsibilities of the home. By the time he came in, did what little he could,I was filled with resentment for all the stupid things he did and kept doing.

I wonder if your wife is there? When the hubby tried changing my mind, I didn't believe anything he did because it felt like he was doing it to placate me. I know this sounds stupid but he didn't try for years and I was working at it and all the sudden he gets hit with a giant lightening bolt? 

One thing that the hubby did was he didn't lose control because let me tell you, I baited him just to prove he was faking the whole thing. Just an act and he would fall right back into the routine as soon as I let my guard down. This is what the whole thing was about. He always talked calmly no matter what I said or did. I could rail at how awful he was and he knew he had done everything I accussed him of and he agreed calmly. I tried everything to make him lose it, but to no avail. 

This is not about the kids. This is about you and her. You need to start some actions. Take her out to dinner. Bring her dinner. Her sinus are acting up, perfect time for you to do a couple loads of laundry, feed the kids, bathe them and and put them to bed. Then go in quietly and just hold her. She is hurting and trying to push you away because you have not been the hubby she wanted. Call her up and tell her you and the kids miss her on a night you have the kids and invite her over for pizza and a movie and a sleepover. Not sex but be a gentleman. Maybe sneak a few kisses here and there. You still need to sit down and talk, yes, I have not done my part of the marraige, I am willing to do this.... I would like it if you would do this.. it makes me feel. But don't accuse, as soon as you do that, she will clam right back up. You know your wife and if you want to fix things, find out what she wanted from you, was it attention,love, respect, time alone with you,a great father, a devoted hubby? 
When she says your being fake, calmly reply, I am not being fake. I am a husband who loves his wife and wants her to see that I love her so much that I am willing to change.

On that note, don't become her doormat either. She wants a strong man not a wimp. You still have some time, but you will have to start doing more with her, for her and be about her. As she comes around, talk about your needs to. There has to be a reason why you were not fully committed to her. Try some things she doesn't expect from you and out of your own element. Line up a sitter and take her for dinner, a walk, or just time to talk. Show her that you are willing to work and realize that she tried and you did not. Offer a negotiation. We have a little over a month to fix this marraige before the divorce is final, why not see if we can give it one last shot so we know we have not left one stone unturned before we leave this marraige. I promise to prove that I can be the hubby you want me to be and i would like you to keep an open mind. If things have not changed then we proceed with the divorce. I hope this helps, stay vigilante and work, work and work at it!


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

tamara24 said:


> First let me say that I am sorry you are going through this. I just wanted to give my opinion from someone that has been there.
> 
> My hubby did not hold up his side of the marraige,didn't respect me, did the bare minimum with the kids, and generally did the bare min. with me. It was like we were on one island and he on another. I finally got so emotionally drained and physically exhausted with all his nonsense that I didn't believe anything he said. I asked for a divorce.
> 
> ...


Great post Tamara! 

I realize that there is precious little time left before the finalization of the divorce.. keep your focus that the goal is to rebuilding the marriage and that takes time... do not let your actions become desparate... the first line of action is just to stop the divorce process... work towards giving her a sense of your committment that when you talk to her, that you can ask to put the divorce on hold for a bit... express to her that both her and you are a marvelous work in progress...

lightning bolts DO happen...


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> You are 100 percent correct here. You can't compete with fantasy on it's own terms. So compete on ground where reality can hold it's own.


OK. What is your suggestion to do this?



RoseRed said:


> What you deem is her fantasy is actually, right now, her reality! And for that case, the OP's too...doesn't make it right or wrong.. it is what it is...


Exactly. Her reality is based on fantasy, but it is her reality.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> OK. What is your suggestion to do this?
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Her reality is based on fantasy, but it is her reality.


I think we are on the same page... her reality is her choice.. her decision whether it be best for her or not... that is something no one can judge as we do not know her point of view... 

her PA .. of course a bad choice... but it is up to the OP to truly forgive her... and her to repent... both difficult things to do.. but not impossible! Even if she doesn't repent, the OP can forgive... that is truly a godlike act... doesn't mean he is a doormat nor a pushover.. means he cannot abide with the OM in the picture and he accepts her decision, and lets her go... as painful it may be. It is obvious the OP loves his W... and no way would want her to be miserable remaining with him, nor would it be fair to himself to not have a loving wife...

But my senses are tending to the possibility of a reconcilation... they have to learn how to communicate effectively... and MC would be a must!!!


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## Avalon (Jul 5, 2011)

gearhead65 said:


> All while your husband has resigned himself to the life he built. Providing with every fiber of his being and like you looking for an escape through TV/Internet because he's exausted and your not engaging him at all. He'll be blindsided. The fact that he works too much during a bad economy (that has been around for 4 year) or that he is spending too much time on the internet and not enough on you?
> 
> This isn't implausable. It is what happened to me. You are actively lying to your spouse by not telling him the gravety of your feelings or your intentions. Get off the computer, facebook, spades and go talk to him. He deserves that much.


Wow... My husband has been completely 100% UNINVOLVED in his own children's lives for the past 8 years, which was HIS CHOICE to do. He USED to be a great parent, he USED to love spending time with his children. He became addicted to the Internet and that all went down the drain really fast. He does work, but every spare minute of non-work time is spent in front of his computer. 

"Providing with every fiber of his being".... NOT!!! He doesn't know where HIS OWN CHILDREN go to school. He has withheld medical treatment for HIS OWN CHILDREN in an emergency situation when I was out of town.

As far as telling him about the gravity of the situation or my feelings, every single time I try to talk to him, he shuts me out. I could have a better conversation with a fruit fly. It's HIS choice to shut out his own children. It's HIS choice to refuse to talk to me about how dysfunctional our marriage has become, not through lack of trying on my part. It's HIS choice to walk around with blinders on and only see/hear the things that he wants to. 

'nuf said....


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thanks for your post Tamara, your situation sounds exactly like my wife, although I have always been involved with the kids. I have always been a little hard on them and I'm softer now and she said she can see small changes in me with the kids, but they are due to circumstances of not getting to see them all the time and at times doesn't seem sincere. She says she sees no change in me as a partner in a relationship. I have asked her several times when I had the kids if I could take the kids to my moms and she and I go do something and she either says we'll see or no. and the we'll see turns into oh I already had plans with friends. She has never been to one of my sons hitting lessons so I schedule them when I can take him and she got mad at me the other day because she wanted to go, I said ok I'll change it to where you can be there also. I changed the lesson to after she got off work on a friday and she didn't show up said she was going to grocery store and then out to dinner with friend. I have asked her to go play golf with the kids and I. I have invited her to go to church with us. 

Tamara, just like your husband I was hit by a lighting bolt and I understand it now. It is funny how you can't see things when they are happening. She says it is too late, but I'm not just going to give up. Although it is a fine line to walk, try too hard i feel I'm pushing her farther away, back off a little and it only confirms her decision that I didn't care. Did you stay with your husband?


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

rose, I have said from the beginning I would like to hold off on the divorce. She said she wasn't going to put her life on hold. quick background. May 1st weekend she and her sister went to california to run a marathon, when she got back on monday she said she wanted me to find a place she needed space, I begged and pleaded for a week to no avail, got an apartment. One week later she said she wanted to talk, so I go over there and she wants to go to a mediator. I don't want to but what can I do, we go to the mediator and divide everything up and have joint custody. two weeks later she files, then a week after that we have our first appearence in court. she is going back to court on friday for something, I don't know what for. I plan on talking to her tomorrow to see if we can put it on hold but I don't think that is going to be an option. Last monday I was going to pick up the kids from school and I have to pass the house on the way, she is setting on the front porch so I turn around and go back. we go in the house and she starts crying saying she has guilt because the kids know it is her that wants the divorce, and that she doesn't do good alone and she knows I am lonely also. She said she is 40 years old and there is no one out there, but she can't go in reverse, and that she is shocked she still feels so much hurt. I told her divorce isn't going to make the hurt go away it is only going to cause more hurt.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

last saturday before she told me to leave she had walked out of the kitchen and my son says to me " you guys aren't arguing" and I said "son we don't argue all the time". he says " I asked mom if maybe you could move back home for like a week and see how things go and she said no we argue too much". It just breaks my heart, not lately but a couple of weeks ago she would just try to argue with me for no reason in front of the kids. Am I right in saying she was doing this to justify the divorce to the kids, we argue too much. In all reality it was her doing the arguing, I never lost mt cool and would just agree or say that is not completely true. My son asked me alot of questions and I always tell her what he says and what I say, I asked her it would be nice if she would do the same. She said she would, but she has said nothing to me about what my son said he asked her. My son asked me the other day " dad are you and mom divorced?". I said " not yet son but it is looking like that is going to happen." he said "mom said you were already divorced". so that is when I asked her to tell when when he asked questions so I will know what she said and I won't be caught in a lie.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> last saturday before she told me to leave she had walked out of the kitchen and my son says to me " you guys aren't arguing" and I said "son we don't argue all the time". he says " I asked mom if maybe you could move back home for like a week and see how things go and she said no we argue too much". It just breaks my heart, not lately but a couple of weeks ago she would just try to argue with me for no reason in front of the kids. Am I right in saying she was doing this to justify the divorce to the kids, we argue too much. In all reality it was her doing the arguing, I never lost mt cool and would just agree or say that is not completely true. My son asked me alot of questions and I always tell her what he says and what I say, I asked her it would be nice if she would do the same. She said she would, but she has said nothing to me about what my son said he asked her. My son asked me the other day " dad are you and mom divorced?". I said " not yet son but it is looking like that is going to happen." he said "mom said you were already divorced". so that is when I asked her to tell when when he asked questions so I will know what she said and I won't be caught in a lie.


Wow... that was fast! 

The reason she is egging you by her no shows, angry words, etc etc is to get you mad with her.. she would rather you be mad than hurt... and you are showing neither and that is confusing the hell outa her... good man! It also tells me that she, in her misguided notion, still cares enough that she doesn't want to hurt you.. she does have a thread of compassion to work upon! So... kill her with kindness... tell her,confidently, gently and smiling.. no matter what... you will always love her... that will get her thinking! 

As for getting caught in a lie with your son.. or with anyone... easy solution... never tell one!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Oh I will never lie to him, I may not give all the details but I will never lie. I told him we were not divorced yet, and that is true. When I asked her about her telling him we were, she said he just asked in passing and she said we were. Now how does a 10 year old kid ask in passing if his mom and dad are divorced. After he asked me he said we know it is all mom, and I said well son it isn't all momma. and he said we know that you don't want a divorce and mom does. he also said we know mom kicked you out. I have not told them anything like that so I don't know if she did or hears her talking. We all went to the wwe wrestling in town a couple of weeks ago and my wife asked my son what he wanted for his birthday and he said" my dad to move back home". Just as quick and as mean and cold as you could be she snapped back "well that is not going to happen, so if you want something you better think of something else". I just about fell out of my chair. not long after that she went to the bathroom and my son said " dad she isn't always like this." and I said like what son, and he said "like this, she is only like this when we are all together" he was going to say something else but she was walking back to the table.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> Oh I will never lie to him, I may not give all the details but I will never lie. I told him we were not divorced yet, and that is true. When I asked her about her telling him we were, she said he just asked in passing and she said we were. Now how does a 10 year old kid ask in passing if his mom and dad are divorced. After he asked me he said we know it is all mom, and I said well son it isn't all momma. and he said we know that you don't want a divorce and mom does. he also said we know mom kicked you out. I have not told them anything like that so I don't know if she did or hears her talking. We all went to the wwe wrestling in town a couple of weeks ago and my wife asked my son what he wanted for his birthday and he said" my dad to move back home". Just as quick and as mean and cold as you could be she snapped back "well that is not going to happen, so if you want something you better think of something else". I just about fell out of my chair. not long after that she went to the bathroom and my son said " dad she isn't always like this." and I said like what son, and he said "like this, she is only like this when we are all together" he was going to say something else but she was walking back to the table.


Since your wife has talked so much with your son about things, I think it best that you discuss things that pertain to him throughout this whole process that is tuned to his age level and comprehension. Stress that you are always open for him to discuss anything with you without any worry of fear. That what you discuss with him will be held in confidence...


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I have and I tell him if there is ever anything he wants to talk about or if he has questions all he has to do is ask. Sometimes I can tell he is a little down and I always ask him what is wrong and if something is bothering him he can talk to me anytime. I was really surprised that he asked my wife if maybe I could move in for a week and see how things go. I want to ask her about it but she would never tell me the truth, she would say it was no big deal. I was really surprised she told me the other day that she didn't know if she could forgive herself for her misjudgements and the misfortune that this will affect the kids. She has said all along that they are fine with it and they are probably going to be better off. (whatever?)

her birthday is coming up this Sunday and it is my weekend to have the kids. I ask her what she wanted and she said time with the kids. That I will for sure give her, but I will figure out some kind of gift, I just don't know what yet. I know she wants absolutely nothing from me.


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## Avalon (Jul 5, 2011)

RoseRed said:


> Since your wife has talked so much with your son about things, I think it best that you discuss things that pertain to him throughout this whole process that is tuned to his age level and comprehension. Stress that you are always open for him to discuss anything with you without any worry of fear. That what you discuss with him will be held in confidence...


Ditto that... I think keeping communication open and honest with your son is the only way to go here. He'll know that he can come to you to talk things through.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Ahh, I don't know. Maybe she should be alone on her birthday. Reality is starting to hit home. She is finally starting to realize that her own selfishness is ROCKING her child's world. 

It is so sad that todays society empowers people into this sort of selfhishness. Be happy at all costs! That said, no ammount of Oprah of Cosmo can totally shield a mother from this. I'd give the new reality to her cold. She want this. Sounds harsh, but I dont' think your W would pee on you if you were on fire. From what I am hearing her only guilt she does feel bad about your kids. 

Maybe I've got it all wrong, this thread has me kind of peeved off.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bowhunter, she is totally pushing you away and she is mad and she wants to hurt you like she feels you hurt her. Is it right? No, but sometimes when we have tried talking to our partner and we get the yea,ok and two weeks later, they go back to the same thing it sets up so much resentment. I also told the hubby, I was not waiting. he has eleven years to correct his relationship with his kids. Oh, he did things with them, but yelled and picked and had absolutley no patience with them at all. Him coming home sometimes, could totally ruin the mood in the house. I choose to pick my battles. I am by no means a hard butt or b****, but you can only take so much when you are giving and your partner is just doing all the taking.

Let me also say, what happens between my husband and I, stayed between the hubby and I. The kids were never brought in and we consulted on anything we felt was important concerning them if they asked a question. My son has Asperger's Autism and extremely bright and my daughter has an issue with emotional eating. You need to tell your wife that you need to meet and discuss the kids. You need to make it clear that if she is intent on going forward with this divorce that you feel that the kids are feeling stressed and confused by different things being said. Do not accuse, just make a plan, write it down so she can't say later you didn't tell her that. Both sign it. Sound stupid, I know but it will hold her to keeping her mouth shut saying things to your son. He is an innocent in all this and until a final decision has been made and you discuss this with him together,no comments, put downs or statements about your relationship should be said to him. You are both still his parents and the number one rule is, do not put the other parent down or say anything derogatory. Keep it respectful.

So getting her to participate is tough. yep, I did that. You have to get the kids out of the house. Have one of her friends come pick the kids up and let her think her friend is coming for her. have the friend drop the kids off at grams and she can't say she has other plans. She may still resisit as you did just trick her, but tell her the truth. We need to talk, we need to figure this out, we need to be alone so we can discuss why we have hurt each other. Start by recognizing what you have done wrong, why you felt like you didn't need to do your part, how you felt. Listen to her. Perfect timing when she has sinus issues because she will be tired and cranky. Bring her one of her favorite meals, put her to bed and serve her and talk gently. Explain that you know you hurt her, you are being sincere, and if she wants the divorce and that will make her happy then you will do it, but at least give it one chance before you both realize you made a huge mistake and it is too late. Do not beg. If she starts getting just down right nasty and mean. Tell her that you wanted to work with her a be a partner,but until she can treat you with respect, you will not be subject to her tantrums and walk out. Now you know she will get nasty to try to push you away, but there is a difference of saying hurtful things to get it off her chest and just being a snot!


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh, and yes, I am still with my hubby. We still have ups and downs as all marraiges do, and sometimes he does the most stupid things imaginable but he is making an effort. He is not a romantic guy by any means and has adhd so things pop out of his mouth before he thinks. But it has gotten less since he has gotten treatment. We haven't had much money but we have gone on a few date nights. took the kids camping for the first time this weekend. I get a card in my car once in a blue moon. He helps around the house, he asks about things and is involved in our lives. 

yes it can work. You just have to figure out what will work with your wife. What makes her tick. I remember one time, I was running through the house trying to do laundry, cooking dinner, and I would not talk to him, I was DONE! He was following me around and trying to get me to go to our room to talk and he was utterly calm(totally his opposite personality) Finally I went in there, he stayed in front of the door and wanted me to answer what I really wanted from him. Just three things. Man I railed at him three? Are you serious just THREE? But there are so many to choose from.... you get the point. Then I broke down crying because all of that anger came flooding out. I am not a crier. He didn't say a word, He picked me up, put me in bed.I tried getting up as the kids needed to be fed, homework done,and laundry doesn't do itself. He got really firm(another shock) and said stay in that bed. He finished dinner, brought me my dinner(I nearly fell over), got the kids ready for bed(a first) and then he came back in. I tried to pretend I fell asleep so I couldn't talk to him. So he climbed in bed, snuggled up to me and said, I know you are not asleep as you would be listening to see if I got the kids in bed correctly. I love you, I miss you and I need you. I have done things to hurt you, I have not been your partner and I see that now. I never saw it before. I can say I am sorry a million times, but it will not change the past. I can only change the future,by showing you that I want our family to work. I can remember that word for word because he never ever tried talking to me like that. He stayed calm and he never once raised his voice. Even when I replied it is too late, he stayed calm and said we have not gotten a divorce yet,so we can still work this out.He then explained what he thought he should be doing and what he felt his part needed to be and wanted my input as to what I wanted out of him.

As things eased up(not overnight)we had our moments, he told me what he needed and I was at a point where I could listen. We have been married going on 19 years next month. I think we are closer now than when we were first married. We still have moments where I want to strangle him, and him me but we talk it through and we get past it. Talk until you are blue in the face! Just make sure you know where to draw the line between begging her(that will not work) and really taking control of the situation that has just spiraled. Hope this helps.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

Locard said:


> Ahh, I don't know. Maybe she should be alone on her birthday. Reality is starting to hit home. She is finally starting to realize that her own selfishness is ROCKING her child's world.
> 
> It is so sad that todays society empowers people into this sort of selfhishness. Be happy at all costs! That said, no ammount of Oprah of Cosmo can totally shield a mother from this. I'd give the new reality to her cold. She want this. Sounds harsh, but I dont' think your W would pee on you if you were on fire. From what I am hearing her only guilt she does feel bad about your kids.
> 
> Maybe I've got it all wrong, this thread has me kind of peeved off.


I can see your perspective... and perhaps she spending her birthday alone would sink the reality of what the collateral damage of divorce is all about. 

Marriage has nothing to do with the kids, you don't marry your kids... however they do benefit or suffer from the state of the marriage.. or divorce... 

I totally agree that the W is being petulant and immature.. but she is still his W.. and he still loves her....so this is what he has to work with as he wants to repair the marriage. 

I can vouch that my perspective is based upon the christian belief... that compassion and caring and not giving up on love is far more noble... there is always hope. ..its not being a doormat... its about being a good person. The OP has rekindled his vows he made within his heart to God and his wife... just because she's being extremely difficult... the For better and worse part still applies! As Christ forgave Judas for betraying Him even though His fate was sealed. This was before Judas asked for forgiveness... 


Many of the self-help articles and books have very good points and valid exercises .. however there are some that I definately disagree with..

It takes alot of courage,strength, faith, patience and perserverance...


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## Cristian Luca (Sep 7, 2011)

This is a very delicate problem since there are kids involved, nonetheless nobody's life is sacrificial and you shouldn't do anything for the "kid's sake" because it's bad bad bad. 

Obviously you can't beg to have a relationship with someone. It's over. Move on and give your best to the kinds. A divorce won't affect them that much. Just look around in the world and see what real problems kids have.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Rosered, You are spot on and I am with you all the way! I just don't see her coming around without a huge dose of reality.

I see this as needing a 180. She needs to hit rock bottom, I don't see him being able to "win" her back at this point. Something with her has to change before she will be able to see him in a different light and I'm not sure that will happen with the status quo. This is very sad.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> her birthday is coming up this Sunday and it is my weekend to have the kids. I ask her what she wanted and she said time with the kids. That I will for sure give her, but I will figure out some kind of gift, I just don't know what yet. I know she wants absolutely nothing from me.


On our parenting plan, it lists lots of holidays, including mother's birthday, mother's day, father's birthday, and father's day. You can check odd years, even years, all, or none. I do believe it is fair and have checked all for her on her birthdays and mother's day and vice versa. If you don't have something like that laying out all of the holidays, etc., I think it would be a good idea.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

Locard said:


> Rosered, You are spot on and I am with you all the way! I just don't see her coming around without a huge dose of reality.
> 
> I see this as needing a 180. She needs to hit rock bottom, I don't see him being able to "win" her back at this point. Something with her has to change before she will be able to see him in a different light and I'm not sure that will happen with the status quo. This is very sad.


I think we are on the same page... I agree with the 180 portions that encourage and enpower each spouse to become whole within themselves. It is vital for each spouse to find their own true self and become strong, confident, self esteem, self respect etc etc... begging and pleading doesn't work in a marriage no matter the state it is in... that is not respecting yourself. However withdrawing something that is your strong core belief should not be withheld. Stated in a calm, assertive, loving manner (no begging crying etc)... saying "I love you no matter what" speaks of confidence and commitment... a definate PLUS! Any act of love the OP desires to give is given because he wants to, chooses to... Love is an individual choice.. Just because she rebukes him doesn't change that fact. Any agreement that they made concerning child custody is up to them... if he wishes to gift his children to her for them to spend the birthday... then he should.. BUT he does have to state, again in a clear, calm manner... that this is his gift to her... because he loves her... but since it is his official day as SHE had agreed to... then it should be spent ALL together as a family. Her choice to accept or refuse.

As to when she hits rock bottom... that all about time.. of which we have no control over.. no way to measure... thats when patience and perservence comes in!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Tamara your situation has a lot of similarities as mine and I hope that mine turns out as well as yours has, atleast trying to make it work. I truly believe I just need this one more chance. But that choice is not mine and it doesn't look good so far. Thank you for your insight, it gives me hope.

Hurting we do have the same agreement you are talking about, but I don't think she realizes that. She gets them on mother's day and her birthday.

I went and bought some flowers today and left them at the house for her when she gets home. She works late tonight and I have the kids, I just left a hand written note that said I hope this makes your day a little brighter. Rose I will take the advice you gave with the kill her with kindness. I have looked at the 180 and like some of the concept but I think some of it was part of the problem in the marriage, she feels I didn't appreciate what I had and she felt like we weren't good friends and we didn't grow together and have an emotional connection. 
But in all reality nothing I say is going to be right in her eyes now, so my actions may speak a little louder. I pray every day the lrd will soften her heart and if it is his will then that is what he will do in his time.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> Tamara your situation has a lot of similarities as mine and I hope that mine turns out as well as yours has, atleast trying to make it work. I truly believe I just need this one more chance. But that choice is not mine and it doesn't look good so far. Thank you for your insight, it gives me hope.
> 
> Hurting we do have the same agreement you are talking about, but I don't think she realizes that. She gets them on mother's day and her birthday.
> 
> ...


I will pray for you both! That you will remain strong to Him... rely on Him for guidance, and that what you show your wife will ring true to her heart and it soften with His gentle touch through your faith! 

Do not waver... be strong... 

blessings to you and your family!


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

I know your wife is being selfish at the moment,but it isn't selfish if she has given and you haven't given back. Her consequences aren't about showing her what a divorce will give her, but about her being so hurt, not thinking clearly, and letting her pain and resentment rule her decisions. 

If all else fails and I do mean all else, because I believe that if you take charge, responsibility and show her the man you can be, she will at least hold off on the divorce. Buying things, right now will lead to your suck up explanation as to why you are doing things. Actions speak louder than words. The 180, is definitley the way to go if she proceeds with the divorce. I know you may not like that option, but you can always get back together when she realizes the changes you are making not just for her but for yourself, are permanent ones and not just to win her over.

Have you tried the love dare by any chance? Again, love her, be patient, and talk but do not become a doormat and start jumping through hoops to please her or you will be the one regretting the marraige later. It takes a lot of work to rebuild the trust and win her confidence back but it can happen. Just don't expect an overnight change, it comes gradually. As she sees you change,she changes. It also depends if you can figure out a way to get her to respond to you. As soon as you crack that shell, the rest will fall into place. Most of all as RoseRed stated, pray the HE will guide you and soften her heart. Prayer can go along way!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thank you both, tamara I totally agree with your take on my situation. She has given and I didn't give back early on but later on it really was neither of us giving love. What she says is true, we became really good roommates. I guess the reason I haven't lost my cool so far is because I know it is her hurt that is talking and taking control of her actions. I did bye the love dare book and watched the movie, I left it for her to watch but she never did. I started the dare, but really hard to do living seperate and the dares I was supposed to get feedback fom her, she wouldn't respond, so I gave up on that so far. I am trying to be patient, but boy it sure is hard. I ask the lord to help me everyday for patience. I am waiting for the shell to crack for sure and at times I think it may be, but then the door slams in my face. It is just so true that you really do see things when it may be too late. I just keep praying and chugging along doing what I can.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bowhunter, think, think, and think. So you have checked out awhile in your marraige. Did you miss on some of the hints she gave you? Did she ask you to do anything? Fix a drain, change her tires, change the light bulb? You have to look back at what she has told you prior to asking for this divorce/seperation. 

Did you take her for granted? So now what can you do to show her you haven't? Have you made her feel wanted? Not as a mom,your roomate but as your wife? She should be your number one priority,does she feel that way? I know my kids were my number one, and that was my failing during my marraige. She is your spouse and partner, she needs to feel like number one. That doesn't mean shun the kids, it means you make her first as your equal. 

I know you feel like your at a loss,nothing you do feels right. She wants you to feel that way cause that is how you made her feel when she tried to work on things and you refused.Just keep doing. Do the things she talked to you about before, if you have some money, then take her for a small weekend getaway to talk. Most of all, make her laugh. Even if it means you show up at the door to get the kids with a big red clown's nose. Laughter can break the ice, remind you of good times, and heal. Get the kids involved. 

You can figure this out but you are operating on 90% and you have to be at 110%. Watch for cues that you can hold her hand, steal a kiss, bring just one single favorite flower, it doesn't have to be grand just geared towards her. How did you get her to date you? Remind her of that time. Do I make any sense to you? Her selfishness is not about i just want to be this way, it is about you keep hurting me and now I am protecting myself and pushing you away cause your a big fat jerk(her thinking process) get it?


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

oh I definetly took her for granted, we had our ups and downs like anyone, but never thought it was coming to this. she called last night to talk to the kids and never said a word about the flowers I left and I didn't ask. I called her back a little later and asked her what she was doing and she said watching tv, I asked her what she was watching and she said "quit with the conversation it is about 10 years too late". I chuckled and said I it is not too late and if she had a break today or if she would go to lunch that would be great, but I really wanted to talk to her. she said she didn't know she thought she was busy all day. 

I have always taken care of the things around the house, I gutted and remodeled the kitchen for her, and have done all the maintenance. The dishwasher is broken right now, she sent me a text the other day and said something is wrong with it. I called her this morning to ask if she wanted me to look at it and she said she didn't care if I wanted to I could, but it made no difference to her. I don't know if I should or not, I want to help, but part of the deal with divorce is I won't be the handy man at the house anymore.

And yes Tamara you are making perfect sense, and I believe it has really helped hearing your perspective, thank you.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Go fix the dishwasher! It is your foot in the door. If the dishwasher is unfixable, turn around and say, lets hop in the car and go look at dishwashers. Compare brands,makes and models. You don't have to buy it, but it gets you time with her in which to prove yourself. If it didn't mean anything to her, she wouldn't have even brought it up. This is called love deposits if you have not read His Needs, Her Needs.You should read that by the way. You can't fix anything if you don't get her to start talking. 

I know it is a lot of work and frustration on you now. But remember she tried to get you to work on this before and you neglected the marraige. Now she feels abandoned and hurt. She is lonely and filled with resentment. You know how I know she cares? She was crying when she told you her sinuses were acting up. She let you touch her and see if she was running a fever. It is small, but it is baby steps. 

Wiggle your way in there. Can you just pop in over there and say hi to your kids? Can you stop over an hour before dinner time and say hey, lets all give mom a break and go for pizza. Do something that shows you are thinking of her. Once my hubby brought home a gift certificate for a massage, set up the appointment, came over and said, I know you have been really stressed so I got the kids and you go and get this massage. Totally threw me for a loop. How can I say something nasty when he just gave me a massage! I think I did try to wiggle out of it with the kids have homework, I haven't shaved my legs and he just pushed me right out the door,handed me my purse and said, Fine, don't get the massage, waste the appointment but don't come home for at least two hours. I had to pick up my jaw from the ground. You don't have to do anything expensive. I have fibromyalgia so massages help me to relieve the pain. Does your wife like pedicures and manicures? Then do that! Find the place she goes and do it.

Tell her that you arte coming over to get her Friday night and you are not taking no for an answer. Blindfold her when you get there and tell her you have a surprise. Have a candlelight dinner prepared at your place, or have a picnic somewhere you used to take her. Be creative. Oh yea, you will get told you are just faking it,blah, blah. But if you are sincere in your actions and you think of something you know you have neglected her with, she won't tell you, but she will think about it. It is all about baby steps....


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

she called earlier and said she may have a client cancell at 2:00, that she would let me know. I didn't wait for her to tell me yes or no and just went to the house at 2:00, she never showed up, but I did look at the dishwasher while I was there. I found the problem and texted her to tell her what the problem was and I would fix it when the kids and I come over to get some clothes tonight. She called me as I was going to pick the kids up from school and said she had about 10 minutes to talk what did I want to talk to her about? I said what I wanted to talk to her about would take more than 10 minutes and I didn't want to talk on the phone or through text. I told her that I understand where she is at and that she is hurt, but I know we can get through this. I told her I loved her and I always have, I just failed to show it sometimes. She said she can't put her life on hold for 3 years to get through this. she said she doesn't love me and that she gave her everything and she has none left to give. She said she can't just find a stranger off the street and say i'm going to love him, I said I'm not a stranger, and she said that she feels like she knows me better than anyone and she feels I'm a stranger to her. She said she tells people that ask that our marrige ran its coarse and it is over with, She got married, had 2 kids and that is two things off her bucket list. she said the kids will be fine because they have two parents that love them, and that I would find someone. I told her I don't want to find someone, I have already found mine. my son has a hitting lesson at 5:30 and she is supposed to be there, we'll see. If she isn't we have to go by the house after, so maybe she will be there. I told her I would still like to talk to her some more. She also said if I understand where she is then why can't I see how far gone she is.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> she called earlier and said she may have a client cancell at 2:00, that she would let me know. I didn't wait for her to tell me yes or no and just went to the house at 2:00, she never showed up, but I did look at the dishwasher while I was there. I found the problem and texted her to tell her what the problem was and I would fix it when the kids and I come over to get some clothes tonight. She called me as I was going to pick the kids up from school and said she had about 10 minutes to talk what did I want to talk to her about? I said what I wanted to talk to her about would take more than 10 minutes and I didn't want to talk on the phone or through text. I told her that I understand where she is at and that she is hurt, but I know we can get through this. I told her I loved her and I always have, I just failed to show it sometimes. She said she can't put her life on hold for 3 years to get through this. she said she doesn't love me and that she gave her everything and she has none left to give. She said she can't just find a stranger off the street and say i'm going to love him, I said I'm not a stranger, and she said that she feels like she knows me better than anyone and she feels I'm a stranger to her. She said she tells people that ask that our marrige ran its coarse and it is over with, She got married, had 2 kids and that is two things off her bucket list. she said the kids will be fine because they have two parents that love them, and that I would find someone. I told her I don't want to find someone, I have already found mine. my son has a hitting lesson at 5:30 and she is supposed to be there, we'll see. If she isn't we have to go by the house after, so maybe she will be there. I told her I would still like to talk to her some more. She also said if I understand where she is then why can't I see how far gone she is.


Have that talk!!! And if she says "you don't understand how far gone she is"... reply... " I know you are a strong determined woman... and that I am going to be there for the healing process. My strength is your strength." 

These are gifts of love... compassion, understanding, strength, COMMITMENT!

AND FIX THE DISHWASHER!!! PRONTO!


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

All words said by an angry,frustrated and emotionally fried woman. Your not asking for three years, you know there are things that can be fixed immedately. Some things will take more time as you gain her trust by your commitment to her. Right now, she is headed straight for the door and that's all she can see. Ok, so she says she knows you like no other, that your a stranger. That tells me that you have neglected her. You need time on dates, time to hold hands,to flirt and get to know your wife.

She can't see the future because she only remembers the past. Right now, just negotiate the near future. You have a month before anything is final, talk to her about giving you the month to show her what you can and are willing to change. Ask her opinion on what she feels she needs, ask her to give you time to get to know her and keep an open mind. No begging! 

If she does not respond or is totally negative,, then give her space,pick your kids up and give her a week without phone calls, running to her rescue.keep it a kids only topic. I urge you to use this as a last resort. She is talking to you so keep her talking. Let her work through the hurt and be there. Let the tears flow and be there. Just hang in there. She is going to give you a rough ride,you gave her one! Just keep praying!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

tamara24 said:


> All words said by an angry,frustrated and emotionally fried woman. Your not asking for three years, you know there are things that can be fixed immedately. Some things will take more time as you gain her trust by your commitment to her. Right now, she is headed straight for the door and that's all she can see. Ok, so she says she knows you like no other, that your a stranger. That tells me that you have neglected her. You need time on dates, time to hold hands,to flirt and get to know your wife.
> 
> She can't see the future because she only remembers the past. Right now, just negotiate the near future. You have a month before anything is final, talk to her about giving you the month to show her what you can and are willing to change. Ask her opinion on what she feels she needs, ask her to give you time to get to know her and keep an open mind. No begging!
> 
> ...


AMEN! great post Tamara!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thank you both so much for the advice. The kids and I went to my son's hitting lesson last night and she showed up not long after it started. We talked for just a second about maybe getting my son some strength and agility training, then she tries to argue with me about how I don't need to be at everyone of my son's hitting lessons. I work an odd shift so I schedule them around my schedule, he goes on wednesday one week and then friday the next week, but I schedule them so she can be there also if she wants. She said I shouldn't schedule them around my schedule, that I don't have to be at every one of them and that I don't go to every one of my daughters gymnastics lessons. I told her if we were able to change my daughters schedule I would do that but it is mondays only and I work every other monday so I miss every other week. I told I would be at every one of my son's lessons, I'm sorry. Every year before now I have coached my son's baseball team, she said now that you are not coaching you don't have to be at everyone. I guess she just doesn't want me to be there or she is just trying to argue over nothing.

We left there and she said we needed to come by the house and get the kids some clothes for the kids school pictures today, I said we were and while we were doing that I would fix the dishwasher. We get over there and I worked on the dishwasher and got it running. There were a lot of dishes in the sink so I started loading, she said no I'll do that and I said I got it. She walked through the kitchen a few minutes later and said stop doing that I'll do it, again I said I got it . I finished putting the diches in and started it, then my son wanted to play catch with the football, so we went outside to play catch for a minute. when we went back in she seemed to be in a hurry for us to leave so we left.As we were leaving she gave me a non-chalant thanks for fixing that. I didn't get a chance to talk to her much about us because the kids were there. after we were at the apartment for a little bit I called her and asked her when exactly she wanted to have the kids this weekend for her birthday and she said whenever, I said it was her choice and I wasn't going to deny her the kids on her birthday. I did ask her when did my son ask her if I could move back home for a week and see how it goes. She seemed to get agitated and said the last time she had them she couldn't remember, they were laying in bed and he asked her and she said that's not going to happen, we tried that, it didn't work, when you get older you will understand. I don't know if she says these things in a hateful tone to my son or just to me. I told her I was just wondering when he asked her and what was said, she said it was no big deal. I said ok and the phone went dead, I caled back and asked if she hung up on me because she didn't say by or anything and she said I thought you were done talking and I said no I still want to talk to her face to face and she said what do you want and I said, you. She said well that can't happen and we are not putting this off. I told her I Loved her and I wasn't giving up on us. Later on I sent her a texted saying I would like for us all to go to dinner for her birthday and she never replied.

the kds and I stopped by the house this morning to get some different pants and she seemed to be in a good mood, not towards me, but in a good mood. we left and I told her to have a good day. After I dropped the kids off, and got back to my apartment I called and asked her if she found out what is supposed to happen in court tomorrow and she said she doesn't know, that she would send me the e-mail from the attorney, but we were not putting this off. She asked me why did I need to know, and I said because I am part of this also and I wanted to know what is going on. She said she would be walking around dazed and confused but the attorney hopfully would know what was going on.
She said she was sending the e-mail right now, but when I got the e-mail it was a confirmation for my son's hitting lesson that I sent her. I sent her an e-mail back and told her I didn't get it and that I didn't want to delay it, I wanted to stop it, I loved her and wanted to do whatever it takes to keepour family together.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Sooo what are you going to do about the birthday? What have you done in the past. I suggest something fun, nothing serious, just do something with some laughs. Do get her a nice thoughtful gift. Something she mentioned or has told you she wanted but knew you would never do it. Think hard on that, don't let it be something that is just a fleeting thought.

You have got to sit her down and talk. It is like you are letting her run the show. She is going to tell you when you can go to watch your kids do things but you are more than willing to give up your time with them so she can have them on her bday. She needs to learn some manners.

You need to get her to talk, get the kids to grandmas or somewhere. You need to read the book I told you earlier to read. Also You need to find out exactly what her needs were that you didn't fill. I am sure you have some too that she didn't feel, but right now, just try to get her mind off that door and thinking of your marraige. Stop making excuses, she wanted us out of the house..you just fixed her dishwasher, she can spare five minutes! Stop talking on the phone and stop texting. This is about your future. Go straight over there and say I need to know. I want to try this,even if it is only a month lets see if we can make some headway here. Again, she is angry, but if you don't man up a little here and you let her call the shots with everything you are going to go nuts and will find even more excuses.

Let me ask you.Are you still paying the mortgage on the home and splitting bills? If so, why are you not at home then? Becausae she said you can't. I believe you can until the divorce is final....Maybe a seperate bedroom or even the couch for sleeping arrangements, but at least you would be there so she has to see you, talk to you and you get the oppurtunity to show her what you want to do.

What exactly were her reasons for wanting a divorce,what didn't you do on your end? You can't fix it if you don't have a clear picture of what you missed and what she needs. If you don't get her talking soon, she will be so blinded by that door that the closer the date gets, she sees her escape. Her escape is her unhappiness,her loneliness, and her anger. She wants relief. She gets that by leaving you as she sees you as the enemy,as the person who made her unhappy, has no intention of changing and she needs more.She is bossing you around and playing the maybe I will be there, maybe I won't game. You need to have the kids go someplace so they don't overhear and go talk to her. Let her get mad If she is not there, then wait for her. You might not like what you hear, but if ya did the crime,take the punishment. Agree when she says you didn't do this, if you didn't do it. Say yes, I know, I did not do that. I was wrong. Do you still need that or what ,besides the divorce, would you have asked from me that I am willing to give. Are you getting a divorce over an affair or because you neglected her? Most of all apologize for not being her partner but explain that regardless you will continue to be an involved dad wether she shows up to your son's ball stuff. You enjoy that. Does she feel your daughter means less? 

Don't use excuses, you need to get over there pronto, don't ask her, of course she will say no. You need to say I need to talk to you. If she says I am leaving say, ok, I will wait to you get back,this is that important to me. Out of respect for our marraige and what we have had in the past, just talk to me. Oh, you will get a smart retort back on that by the way...

You will lose your wife because she is angry and you are letting her run the show. I know most men will not agree with what I have told you here. They will most likely say dude, give her what she wants but if you are serious about knowing what you did in this marraige and you want a chance to rectify it, then man up, get your butt over there and get her mad, let her spew all the resentment of the things you did or did not do, it will tell you all kinds of stuff. It will hurt, she means for it to. Do not be tempted to relay her less finer points at this point. That will get you kicked right out! If you don't agree, just stay calm and say I don't agree with that because...
Stop reading this, go find out why your wife left you, why you neglected her in her eyes(you won't believe how a simple misunderstanding can lead to years of resentment). For example, after we were married, my hubby began to call me pooh. I am not a Winnie the Pooh fan so I took it he was calling me a piece of dodo.After the huge fight and I yelled you don't call your wife a piece of pooh! I find out his favorite character that made him feel loved was Winnie the Pooh and I was now the person who made him feel loved. I was mad about this for years! DUH>....... Go get it figured out or you can't work on it!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

tamara I am not still paying mortgage or bills, I did for first couple of months but she said it wasn't fair if I wasn't living there and I agreed. As far as her wanting the divorce she says it is because we didn't grow together, there is no emotional connection, I haven't been her #1 fan or a friend, to put it all in a nut shell. She said I'm a good guy and a great father, but there just isn't an emotional connection. She said to me not long ago that it wasn't a bad marriage she just sees it as what it is two people that didn't grow together, but grew apart.

She did finally send me the email from the attorney and she is supposed to go before the judge friday at 1:30. I'm not obligated to be there but I am going to be there. I plan on getting her to talk with me after. 

I am on the night shift right now, so I couldn't talk to her tonight. She never responded to my request that the kids and I take her to dinner saturday night. So I texted her right before I walked into work saying I guess it was a no on the dinner with the kids and I, but if she would go to dinner with just me that would be great. I also said I know that she didn't mean to be hurtful when she said she got married and had 2 kids and she could mark those off her bucket list, although it did hurt. I said I know that was just her hurt talking. She responded telling me to stop playing the victim and quit turning her words into negatives, and if I took that as such then that confirms the fact that I absolutely don't know her at all. I texted her back and said I'm not playing the victim and I was just trying to tell her I know where she is at and I know it is her hurt that is lashing out and I understand that. I told her that I have always and still do love her, I just made the mistake of not always showing my love, but it was always there. I told her my mistakes have hardened her heart for me but it isn't something we can't over come. I told her that I carry the guilt everyday that I hid my love for her from her, and the guilt that our kids will only see us half the time because of it. I agree with the letting her get mad, we had a couple of talks a couple of months ago and she really let me have it, I told her I thought that was good for her as hard as it is to hear it.

The last couple of weeks she has kinda been nice, but the last couple of days she has been a viper. I called the house tonight and was going to talk to the kids about 8:00 and no one answered, so I called her cell and she didn't answer. so I texted her and asked if they weren't home or was she just not answering? she never responded. I called again about 9:00 and my son answered, I talked to him for a few minutes and he asked when he was getting to stay with me and I said probably not until sunday, he said but I thought we were coming to your house on saturday. I said well you and sissy are going to stay with momma on saturday for her birthday. He said well why can't we stay with you until we go to eat at the japanese steak house? I said oh are you guys going there to eat saturday night and he said yes are you not coming? He turned and said " mom is dad not coming to eat with us" i could hear her in the background say no dad has to work, which isn't the truth. I told my son that I wanted to talk to my daughter but my wife said no we are studying for her spelling test tomorrow, I said ok I'll call back in a minute. I called her cell and it immediately went to voice mail, then I called the home phone and no answer. I texted her and said I would like to take her and the kids golfing saturday and I was just wanting to tell my daughter good luck on her spelling and reading tests tomorrow. I also asked if she wanted me to take my son to a friend of his birthday party on sat. She did respond with the party got moved to next sat. I replied with if you don't want to go play golf or to dinner all you have to do is say no, I don't get the no answer. She never responded back.

I'm not going to give up, but I think it is a lost cause. She I was just a stump in the relationship and I sat on the sidelines. But we always went and did things together and as a family. I don't go out with the guys or anything like that, we have been to vegas a few times and been to cabo a couple of times, puerto vallarta, playa del carmen, but yet she says I never wanted to do anything with her. sometimes I think she really just doesn't love me anymore, but I hope her anger means she still cares.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So she got tired of you so you were the one who had to move out and leave your kids? Honestly that sounds like BS. She should have been the one to leave. You didn't dvide to kill the family she did. Let her and her selfish self be the one being lonely in an apartment. I don't understand why you are catering to her selfish whims and being such a doormat 

Yeah you hope to win het back by bring nice. Sorry but all that will likely get you is what it already has : her being cozy at home and you looking in from the outside
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tornupandempty (Sep 22, 2011)

I read this and the origional post. I admit I didn't read the i"inbetweens". From what I've seen on this site there are plenty of guesses, accusations and speculation from well meaning people that can drive you nuts. It has with me. Just from reading all the posts, my thoughts and emotions go flying every which way.:scratchhead:
I ask that you remember that every human on this earth is unique and every combination of people and their personalities will be even uniquer (yes, I made that word up).
So going on that, I can't offer reliable advice, but I want you to know you are not alone. You already told me the same thing on my post. 
All I can say is that I know your pain. You and I and everyone on this forum are reaching out to find something to grasp onto. Something tangible. While I can't speak for everyone, it seems we are seeking answers in each others experiences. I don't know if that will happen for any of us, but we can take at least a little comfort in knowing that we're not the only one going through what is probably the hardest time in our lives.
I thank you for your prayers, and hope that mine will give you at least a sliver comfort. Be good to yourself and your children.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

shaggy, I realise now me moving out was a huge mistake on my part, but I just didn't know it was going to go this far. She said she just wanted some space, then the next week we were going to a mediator, then 2 weeks after that we were at an attorneys office. From everything I have read she left long ago just not physically, but emotionally she is about 6 months or more ahead of me. Boy have I wanted to tell her how selfish I think she is being, but that is not going to help my cause. I know it has nothing to do with the kids but I just can't understand how a parent can give up half the time with their children no matter what the problem is, stay and work on it. It isn't like I'm saying I can't change, I have changed, but as she said too little too late.

tornup thanks for your prayers, I need all that I can get. Patience, Patience, Pactience.


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm not at all encouraged by your latest updates. The first thing that bothers me is she was rushing to get you out of the house with the kids. Why? Did she have plans? The second thing that bothers me is that she was in a good mood the next morning. I know you think, and she has said, there isn't anyone else but those two things are serious warning signs. It could also feed into why she is so adimant. Most people miss their kids terribly and hate this whole process unless they have something to lift them up. What is lifting your wife up? It isn't you or the kids because all of you have the same agenda. Preserving the marriage. I seriously hope that I am wrong, but in my case I feel like my wife would have folded on the divorce a while ago if it hadn't been for the OM.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Tamara and Rose Red have been giving you great advice but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be having any effect on your wife because she's unable to overcome the toxic demonic twins, anger and bitterness, which make true reconciliation practically impossible.

Perhaps it is time for you to accept that there is nothing more that can be done to save the marriage because she's steadfast in not wanting to. If you believe this as well, you may want to consider telling her something along the following lines:

_"[Wife's Name], as much as I love you, want to make you happy and grow old with you, I now see that is not going to happen. It is time for me to move on with my life without you. I will have my attorney get together with your attorney to iron out any differences in our divorce. I truly hope that you find happiness in your new life, goodbye._

Sometimes you have to let go and accept that there are things which are beyond your control as is the case with your wife wanting a divorce, and simply move on with your life.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

I agree that there is some room for speculation that she has something going on,but not everybody is having an affair everytime. When a woman is hurt,and so much resentment has built up, just the strain of you coming over and playing football and fixing the dishwasher sends her through a loop. Why) becauseit reminds her of how things can be,but she is determined not to go there again. Who wants to go where they have experienced pain.

Draw her out. What did she want you to do with her? Sounds like she was looking not for the good dad part,but the husband and lover part. Family things are the absolute best,but time with your partner is extremely important. I learned that the hard way. Talk to her about her birthday plans. Even if it isn't specifically on Saturday, do something. Even. If it is go kart riding,where she can kick your butt or. Boxing,keep it light no strings. Movies are not the best because you can't talk. If she doesn't talk to you today, then start giving her a glimpse of no phone,texts,no handyman. Strictly kids only. Remember,being a doormat will get you nowhere and you don't want to be a wimp either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

I went back and reread the last few posts and had some thoughts. Morituri definitley can tell you a thing or two, and under that do you see the 180 rules under his post? Go there, read it,read again.

One thing I see, you do not give her space. For example, you texted about dinner Sat. She neveer replied so you text her again saying I guess the answer is no but if you go with me that is great. Then she texts you to vent about things and you give her your stradgey plan. I know your hurt and you didn't really mean the things you said, it is just the hurt talking... First, never have conversations like this over a text,things get taken the wrong way,feelings get hurt even more. Second,You better believe she meant every last word she said to you. Buster, you neglected her, made her feel lonely(for it sounds like a few years) and she told you that yea, you were there....but you didn't do anything with me. So what does that say? Remember when I told you that it felt like the kids and I were on one island and hubby on another. That is what she means. Yea, physically you were there but emotionally there was NOTHING. That is a very empty feeling. What incentive are you giving her to let you come back to her life?

Do I think this is hopeless? Like previously somebody else stated, sounds like she has given up,you need to move on. Well I think you have a month left and if you fight for her with everything you got then there might be a chance and it will take months to get even a quarter of the stuff completley right(baby steps). So even, if you just take this month and really try, what are you going to lose? If she still files for divorce you have two options, you can go your seperate ways or you can slowly win her back and get remarried. If you try for the month and she comes around long enough to post pone things that would be awesome. Can this be done? Yes, it can. I am living proof.Yes, everybody has different needs and really I can give you all the advice in the world but you are the one that knows what went on in your marraige and how your wife thinks. I had no intention of letting my husband wiggle his way in again. But he knew me well, he knew the yelling would send me over the edge. He knew I was tired of excuses and everything he did and I accused him of he agreed(how can I fight with that?) I tried, very hard to make him so mad just so I can say see? Because he never lost his cool, I was the one getting mad. I was the one yelling and telling him how he had hurt me, wasn't there for his kids and other than being a great provider, he can't lay claim to anything else in the marraige. I was mean, hurtful, cool, and didn't ever let him think he got to me. Not once did he beg. He said he understood, but until we signed on that dotted line, he had no intention of letting me go so easy. What did I see in return, I saw a man who finally figured it out. Who finally realized that instead of me taking care of him all the time, he needed to take care of me. Are you there? Or are you hounding her with texts and phone calls? As far as your daughter was concerned, you could have stated please tell mom to have your sissy call me when she is done so I can talk to her and not disturb them(RESPECT). Not hanging up, waiting a minute and start texting. STop texting! You need to be face to face. You don't need to tell her how she feels, you need to be telling her what you are going to be doing to fix this. What YOU know you didn't do. Asking what did she need? She already knows how she feels. The more you tell her, the more she is going to be a huge viper because she doesn't think you really get it, and she can't breathe. If you don't get across this weekend, start the 180 Monday. read it! You have nothing to lose, but a lot to gain! You need to soul search and tell her your mistakes. You will get to hers eventually, right now it is all about getting the focus off that dang door.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I'm not sure that Bowhunter is the neglectful monster you are making him out to be. I temper this with the realization you have some great insite here. If his W is that spiteful then maybe there is no hope and he might be better off without her.

I am very suspect of shenanigans. If there is resentment, a reasonable person would be a little bit responsive to his efforts. 

Whe a woman no longer has the gushy feeling for a guy it is like they never were born. This is the most frustrating thread I have ever read here.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bowhunter admittedly ignored his wife. I don't think he is a monster at all. I think he is a man that discovered things a bit too late. Nobody is perfect.not even his wife,not me,nor you. We all have made mistakes,we are human. We learn from these mistakes and can use that to either make amends or to use what we learn with another partner. 

I think marraige is worth fighting for. He obviously loves his wife and there is resenmtent there. There is a lot of work to be done and he wants a chance to fight for his marraige. He has a month until it is finalized. What is a month out of your marraige? At least if they can not work things out. He can. Leave the marraige knowing he did all he could to fight for his marraige. He will have no regrets and move on. He can't make her forget everything,but he can change how he is in the future and so can she.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

well, I got a call this morning saying that the attorney needed me to sign a paper before court today, I asked her what paper and where. She said she would send me the e-mail. The e-mail didn't show so I called her back and said I didn't get it, she said it was just a paper with numbers all broken down and the child support numbers and that she was just supposed to go before the judge and tell him that she didn't want the child support. I said ok I'll meet you at the courthouse. She calls back about an hour later and says the attorney said that I didn't need to sign it and that I wasn't obligated to be there and was no need to be there, she said that they weren't trying to pull something over on me that it was just she had to tell the judge that she didn't want the child support. I said ok, but with every intention of going. I show up at the courthouse and I see her and the attorney walking in the other door and wait on them, they turned a corner and I followed them up the escalator until thay seen me. We go into an empty court room and he tells us to sit on a bench and he would get the judge. while we are sitting there she says "what are you doing here, you didn't have to be here." I said I am involved in this and I want to know what is going on. she said "he is defending me, wel not defending, but representing me." I said I know that, but I still want to know what is going on. Just about that time the attorney says you can come back here, so I let her get up and he says you can come back here also. We go into the judges chamber and he says to us, Raise your right hand and do you swear to tell the truth........and so on. the atorney asks us some legal stuff and the judge signs some papers and says you are now officially divorced and by law you cannot marry for 6 months. Wow, never seen this coming. we walk out of the jdges chambers and the attorney says we don't have to worry about the nov. 4 date, he would take care of it. he turns to the court clerck and says strike the nov. 4 date it is taken care of. We walked out and the attorney had another case so he went a different direction, we were going down the escelator and I say does this mean we are officially divorced and she said I think so, then she laughs and says are you upset we can't marry for 6 months? I didn't respond and turned the corner and left. when I got down the road a ways, I called her and said would you like to talk about what just happened and she said she is as shocked as I am and that she had no clue that was going to happen, that she had her brain wrapped around nov. 4 and that she thought that was the final day, but this didn't change anything. She said we were just incompatible and that I didn't do the things that she needed and that I did what I thought I needed to do but it wasn't enough for her. She said it doesn't make her way right or wrong or my way right or wrong just incompatible. she said she doesn't love me and I can't make her love me, she said she wants to find someone that understands her and that can appreciate her for her. I was just in a daze so I don't remember what all else was said but she said she had to go because she couldn't drive and talk. I went home to change clothes and call work to tell them I wouldn't be in tonight. I went to the family home to get my boat out of the garage and she called and said she was just calling to check on me and see if I was alright. I said no I'm not alright that I didn't want this and I don't want to lose my kids, she said you're not losing the kids, and I said I am losing them half the time, but it wasn't just the kids, I love her and this just isn't what I wanted, I know we could have worked on us and got through this, but now we will never know. She said that is where we are different, I don't love you and the kids are fine, she said she is happy now and If the parents are happy then the kids will be happy. I said I didn't agree and that I was at the house getting my boat out of the garage, she says " oh you're getting your boat out of the garage, thanks." then she hung up.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I took my boat down to my mom and dads house and while I was down there I saw where she posted on her facebook, "its official!!!". real classy. She called just a moment ago and said she was just checking on me and said really sarcastic " I was worried about your mental state". I didn't even respond to that I just said call me when the kids get up tomorrow so I can come get them.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

She got her wish. Maybe now you can start moving on with your life by doing a full implementation of the 180 degrees rules whose sole purpose is to strengthen you emotionally. All communication between you and her should be strictly related to the children's welfare.

It will be interesting now that you are divorced, if a 'new' man suddenly comes in to her life. Don't be surprised if this is the case.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

that has been my thought the whole time, but nothing ever surfaced. It wouldn't surprise me, but I just don't know. I'm definetly going to start the 180 for myself for sure. Hopeful one day soon I can let go, but I just don't do good without the kids, it is just heartreaking. That is just the part I don't understand, how you can just give up on a marriage( that she descibed as not a bad marriage) and break up our family and give up half the time with the kids. I could have it explained a million times and I wouldn't understand. Maybe someday I will.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Bowhunter, this is why I was pushing you for the 180 sooner. It is not all about getting her back, but putting YOU in a place to better deal with moving forward. I really feel for you guy. 

Now that this has happened I'm going to to tell you something. Your Ex wife is not the woman you think she is. She has shown a lack of character to walk away from your marriage, your vows, and your children. She has bought into the divorce fanatasy myth that permeates our culture. Don't ever think that someday she will look back and realize this was the biggest mistake and failure of her life. 

Good men who value marriage and hard work and not everywhere. You are a hot comodity bud, and there are droves of woman who are waiting for a guy like you. You're not ready now, but someday you will be. Only place to go from here is up.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Definitley start the 180. That was a trick she pulled. You can't tell me that her attorney kept this from her. Why would she not want child support unless you are sharing the kids? 

That was very underhanded to say the least. Start the 180, do not call her for the bday,,don't answer her calls. If she tries to engage you to discuss your mental health,just ask her if she needed to tell you anything about. The kids, when she says no,turn around and walk off. Stay very cool and aloof. Everytime you pick up the kids,look good. Buy new cologne. Go workout. Start thinking what YOU want for YOU. Work on yourself and let her see what she is missing. This will be hard, but no texting. Reread the 180 rules. Even if you feel like crud do not show it to HER,nor to friends that you two both know. In time, she will come to see what she misssed out on. You can choose wether you want to let her back in,but I think you will find there are plenty of women that like a man that relishes his role as a father, works, and take what you learned about being a partner and you will be the perfect person from someone. Go dark now,do not engage her unless it is about the kids or finances that you share. I am truly sorry it happened this way, but she let her anger and resenmtment build and didn't attempt to recover the marraige. You have nothing to feel bad about,you stated your intentions very well and she let her anger lead the way. Even if another man is in the picture, if you do the 180, she will look back and regret she did this. Maybe not today, but she will. Focus on you. Take care of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

And to add to what Tamara said, *do not allow her to push your buttons by trying to goad you into an argument*. She will do this in order to justify to herself that the decision to divorce you was the correct one. If you show her stony silence when she lashes out at you, you will be showing her that she no longer has any control over you. Women seldom respect a man who loses control of his emotions and respect is an important ingredient in sexual attraction. It is one of the hardest things for a man to achieve but it is also one of the most rewarding ones when he does.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Totally agree with Morituri!!!! And she will try when she sees you are not pining after her and looking pathetic when you come pick up the kids..


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

In a way I think I'm glad it became official sooner than later, atleast I can quit worrying if it was really going to happen or not. It is now a reality. Thanks for all the posts from everyone, I really appreciate it.

Tamara, we are sharing the kids, and I really don't know if she knew it was going to happen yesterday or not.

locard, you are correct I am definetly not ready for that now, but thanks.

morituri, I will try my best, but you are correct it will be tough


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

oh she will have plenty of opportunity to start an arguement, My kids are involved in activities year round and we have always been involved, and that will not change, at least on my end. She has already suggested I don't have to be at everyone of my son's hitting lessons, but I have always stood my ground when it came to the kids. She may have forced me to only get to see them half the time, but she isn't going to dictate when I can attend their activities.


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## Sod (Aug 20, 2011)

Good for you. They are your kids and you have chosen to be a part of their lives. She cant deny you that


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Bowhunter on those occasions when she succesfully gets under your skin, don't argue with her come here to vent instead and to get support and advice from all the good folks on this forum i.e. Tamara, Rose, etc. In time, you will be strong enough to have her attacks bounce off you like popcorn (butter flavor of course  )


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry it didn't work out like you wanted. I do suspect another man will appear soon. It looks too familiar for it not to be. Either way, you are not where you wanted to be. I am not either. I don't think any of us entered into marriage expecting it to be dissolved later on. I'm sorry you are here.

It sucks, but there isn't anything you can do about it. You just have to pick up the pieces and move on. That is great that you are still very active in the kids' lives. Keep that up.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thanks hurting, I'm not really doing good, but I think I wouldn't be doing as good as I am if I hadn't found this forum. I appreciate the support from you all. It is just a real shame that after nearly 12 years of marriage it is ended with a couple of signatures that took about 12 seconds. You are right it is out of my control. Yes I will forever be involved with my kids, tomorrow my son has a baseball game and I'm sure she will be there. It will really be strange, and sad.


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## Lostouthere (Aug 24, 2011)

BH Im sorry this happened like this man. Keep your head up this is a new start to your life no matter how bad it looks. You will have up and downs just keep a smile on your face around her from now on.


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## forever learning (Sep 28, 2010)

Bh,

Sorry it happened the way it did...

This forum is a great place...I hope that I can take the things I have read and apply them to my situation...

I too must implement the 180...I have stopped at nothing to get my wife home but its done nothing but take me backwards...
When I read others posts and replies I realize that I am on the wrong road...

They have made their choices and its time to get on with things without them...I received the court date in the mail yesterday and that is looming large over my head...I too am amazed that we are going to wipe out 9 years with a signature.....

Its going to be tough but now is the time to be strong in front of her...Get some new clothes, shave do whatever you can to look and feel good.... and smile and be happy at the game...bring a friend if you can he/she can keep you distracted from her.... but most of all try to have fun...

I am going to a function tonight that historically my wife and I had been too...Its a kids thing, but I am going to have fun no matter what...the days of her or her friends seeing my feelings for her are gone.... 

I saw this little quote ...its a chinese proverb I think..

"Even the longest journey begins with the first step..."

Time for the first step


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Then Monday you need to look good.I know you feel like utter crap right now, but you need to look like you are fairing just great. Put on the cologne. Say hi to your kids and totally ignore her. You will have to deal with her at some point but right now your emotions are not in check. If she says she does not want to see you every game,calmly inform her. I am sorry you feel that way but we are divorced and I. Plan to still be a part of their lives any chance I get.walk. away. If she continues to say stuff,just don't react,don't say anything back to her.before you go,go back through 180 rules so they are fresh in your head.

Don't fall for the but we can still be friends thing. Right now it is YOU time. Get yourself together. It will take time to fully heal but I have seen tons of stories that the 180 has helped the marraige and they reconciled and there are others that their spouse finally comes around and the other has worked. On themselves,discovered they didn't deserve the spouse that was being a jerk and THEY said sorry,see ya! Either way you go,you will win. Take one day at a time, take a breath, LOOK GOOD. Even if tears are pouring in. Your heart, you will smile and be totally aloof. You will get through this. We are here for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thanks guys and gals. I went to pick up the kids this morning and my son was still sitting on the couch in his pj's and my daughter was outside playing basketball. I told my son to get dressed and I walke outside to get my daughter. We went back in and I asked my daughter if what she was wearing is what she was going to wear to my son's game, The ex says no, so I said well what is she wearing and lets get dressed. we were just standing around awkward and I said to my ex, "have their stuff ready to go from now on please". I mean she was just standing there, I guess expecting me to dress them and just hang out. We left and stopped and ate breakfast, then back to the apartment for my son to put his uniform on. On our way to the game my ex calls and said she didn't remember how to get to the ball field, I said I would meet her and she could follow us. I really wanted to say well figure it out. We get there and my son is on the field and my daughter was playing on the park toys, She asked if I did anything fun last night and I just said not really. I guess she didn't hear me because she said "you always ask me, so I'm asking you." I said " I said not really". she said did you see anybody you knew. I said a guy I used to work with. I really did nothing but stay home and watch football.

Before we left for the game she called and asked if I was alright, I said I was fine. She said she doesn't want to hurt me but she just sees it as it is. So at the game I asked her if she was alright and she said I'm fine, I said " I assumed you were, I was just asking". She said she didn't want me sad and depressed, I said it is sad and depressing but I'll be fine and I see it as it is too and we see it different. then I walk over to the dugout to tell my son something. when I got back over there she said what were you saying. I said there are just some things that I just don't understand and never will. She said like what? I said " you said it wasn't a bad marriage, but you are willing to just give up and break our family up just because you're quote not happy, I know things would have been different, we miss the kids, the kids miss us, I think it would have been best to try". She said "you hang onto every little word, it wasn't a good marriage". I said I know it wasn't great. She said " well make up your mind was it good or not good, I have been nothing but honest with you." I said that is not completely true. She said I told you a couple of times I wasn't happy. I said "yes I know that, at those moments yes, but after those moments you gave me signals that everything was fine, we were going places and doing things together, you looked to me like you were happy in between those moments." She said " thats the problem, you don't know what happy is." I walked off to talk to my son and didn't say anything else to her the rest of the game. Her mom and dad showed up and then her brother and his fiance, then her sister and her son, so she talked to them the whole game. After the game her mother asked if the kids and I wanted to go eat with all of them, that they had some cheese cake for the ex and her sisters birthday. I said thanks for asking but the kids and I were going to play golf. The ex told the kids bye and then looked at me and said bye, so I said bye.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> thanks guys and gals. I went to pick up the kids this morning and my son was still sitting on the couch in his pj's and my daughter was outside playing basketball. I told my son to get dressed and I walke outside to get my daughter. We went back in and I asked my daughter if what she was wearing is what she was going to wear to my son's game, The ex says no, so I said well what is she wearing and lets get dressed. we were just standing around awkward and I said to my ex, "have their stuff ready to go from now on please". I mean she was just standing there, I guess expecting me to dress them and just hang out. We left and stopped and ate breakfast, then back to the apartment for my son to put his uniform on. On our way to the game my ex calls and said she didn't remember how to get to the ball field, I said I would meet her and she could follow us. I really wanted to say well figure it out. We get there and my son is on the field and my daughter was playing on the park toys, She asked if I did anything fun last night and I just said not really. I guess she didn't hear me because she said "you always ask me, so I'm asking you." I said " I said not really". she said did you see anybody you knew. I said a guy I used to work with. I really did nothing but stay home and watch football.
> 
> Before we left for the game she called and asked if I was alright, I said I was fine. She said she doesn't want to hurt me but she just sees it as it is. So at the game I asked her if she was alright and she said I'm fine, I said " I assumed you were, I was just asking". She said she didn't want me sad and depressed, I said it is sad and depressing but I'll be fine and I see it as it is too and we see it different. then I walk over to the dugout to tell my son something. when I got back over there she said what were you saying. I said there are just some things that I just don't understand and never will. She said like what? I said " you said it wasn't a bad marriage, but you are willing to just give up and break our family up just because you're quote not happy, I know things would have been different, we miss the kids, the kids miss us, I think it would have been best to try". She said "you hang onto every little word, it wasn't a good marriage". I said I know it wasn't great. She said " well make up your mind was it good or not good, I have been nothing but honest with you." I said that is not completely true. She said I told you a couple of times I wasn't happy. I said "yes I know that, at those moments yes, but after those moments you gave me signals that everything was fine, we were going places and doing things together, you looked to me like you were happy in between those moments." She said " thats the problem, you don't know what happy is." I walked off to talk to my son and didn't say anything else to her the rest of the game. Her mom and dad showed up and then her brother and his fiance, then her sister and her son, so she talked to them the whole game. After the game her mother asked if the kids and I wanted to go eat with all of them, that they had some cheese cake for the ex and her sisters birthday. I said thanks for asking but the kids and I were going to play golf. The ex told the kids bye and then looked at me and said bye, so I said bye.


BowHunter - I am so sorry to hear of the outcome. Please know in your heart that you worked and tried all within your heart to save the marriage. It is so sad that your exW did not have the same feelings. But, as it has been said before, she got her wish... your duties, your heart, your spirit no longer belongs to her... you owe her nothing anymore than being civil infront of the children. Do not hide that fact from her, she deserves to know the full extent of your pain. Say it once and once only... and then you move foreward... focus on the children. Her calling and asking that you are ok or not..is her way of alleviating her guilt. It was so underhanded as to the recent court proceedings. Did not the lawyers or judge inform you of what was going on? It will take time, but within your home, you will have a a collection of clothes and the like for the children, do not rely or expect her to be considerate or on point when it comes to these things. All you need to discuss from now and onwards will only be about the children.

Remember... we are always here as your on-line support and sounding board. Never surrender your love,morals, values, compassion, strength, calm and inner peace. It is you.. and if your exW did not want it... your children will definately benefit from it... and another deserving woman may come into your life on day..


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## gearhead65 (Aug 25, 2011)

If this were me, I wouldn't go into the house anymore. It isn't where I live and I should give her space. Pickup the kids and draw firm lines between handoffs. Either she takes them to me or I pick them up and she has them ready. Don't discuss feelings with her anymore. Cut all of that off. 

She wants you to be friends, but still have free reign to hurt you. Don't give her the opportunity. Let her know the full weight of her decision. You're still being too nice.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I had the kids last night and she called to talk to the kids, I asked the the kids if they wanted to talk and they said they were good(meaning they didn't want to talk on the phone). She said " I make them talk to you when you call". Now keep in mind she will only answer half of the time when I know they are home, and when I text her asking about the kids she rarely responds. So I handed the phone to my son and told him to talk to his mom. He talked to her for just a second then handed the phone to my daughter she talked for just a second then got off the phone.

Ex calls today and says she is just calling to check on me, I said I was fine and she asked what I was doing. I said I was looking on the net for houses and she asked where at and I said I was just looking, I told her I wasn't going to get one soon but will have to eventually. She suggested a couple of areas and I said thanks. Then again she said she was just calling to check on me. I said I'm fine and thanks.

when I picked my kids up from school my daughter said she needed to make a poster for school and it was supposed to be turned in today. I asked her how come I am just now finding out about this and she said they sent a paper home last thursday( the ex had them thursday and friday). I called her and asked if she knew where this paper was and she said it was at home and that she would help her with it, I said we were going to go by the house to get the paper. She said she was on her way and would be there shortly, the kids and I found the paper and left. She texted me not long after and asked if we already left and I said yes, we are going to get some posterboard, but would she get some family photos to use on the poster and bring them to my daughters gymnastics tonight. she never responded so I sent her a text back saying yes, no, maybe? she finally responded yes of coarse. While we were at my daughters gymnastics I told her if she wanted to help with the project that was fine, but she would never let me come help with something like that when she had them. She said she didn't care either way, If I didn't need her help she wouldn't help. I said I could handle it. Right before we left she asked if we could agree to do the holidays schedule like we always do the kids and I would go to my parents thanksgiving for lunch, then drop the kids off so she could go to her mothers thanksgiving night. I said that was fine. She said christmas the kids and I would go to my parents christmas eve and she could have them christmas, she said " that way it will be the same as it always has been for the kids". I said it won't be the same because I have always been there christmas morning after santa came. She said well santa can come christmas eve at your house and christmas day at hers. I said it wasn't going to be normal any way we do it but I guess that way was as good as it can get. She said I think it will be fantastic, maybe we can switch off every year. I said that sounds good. She stay at gymnastics for just a minute to fill out a paper and the kids and I left, as we were pulling out of the parking lt she came walking out the door and was walking right in font of us, I gave my truck some gas like I was going to run over her, mind you we were about 20 yards from her, and she gave me a go to hell look and shook her head. I thought it was funny, but she didn't see any humor in it. she didn't even wave or anything to the kids. oh well. 

gearhead, I agree with you but it is just my nature to be nice, I must change that. With her anyway.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

my kids are in the bedroom asleep and it always hits me hard knowing that when I take them to school in the morning I will not see them for two days and it just kills me. I just wonder if they feel the same or if my ex feels that way.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bowhunter, you are engaging her way to much. You can still be nice but not a doormat. The divorce is now final. Her calling you and asking if you are ok is a way to keep you on the hook,just in case. You don't need or want that. Listen to what we are telling you. No conversation about you and her. You are done. If she calls ask her if needs to tell you anything about the kids? When she says no, then you say well I need to go,I have a lot to do. You don't invite her anywhere,ask her to have the kids ready. Do not go into the house,ring the bell,and get the kids. Be friendly in front of kids. 

The basis of this is that your wife needs to learn consequences,you are not her partner,you won't be there to rescue her. If she can't miss you,she can't regret her decision and even try to reconcile. I think the guys call this manning up. Not that your not manly but ever heard the saying,nice guys finish last. Search manning up. It might help you understand it from a man's perspective. Women, want a man in charge,not someone they can basically run over,and just tell how it is. Do some searching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> my kids are in the bedroom asleep and it always hits me hard knowing that when I take them to school in the morning I will not see them for two days and it just kills me. I just wonder if they feel the same or if my ex feels that way.


I know how you feel. The kids probably feel the same way. Mine do. I don't see mine on Monday and Tuesday. On Sunday night, no one ever wants to go to bed. Two of my 3 kids actually told me this past Sunday night that they didn't want to go to sleep because when they woke up I wouldn't be there for 2 days.

Yes, that is the worst part of this.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tamara24 said:


> Bowhunter, you are engaging her way to much. You can still be nice but not a doormat. The divorce is now final. Her calling you and asking if you are ok is a way to keep you on the hook,just in case. You don't need or want that. Listen to what we are telling you. No conversation about you and her. You are done. If she calls ask her if needs to tell you anything about the kids? When she says no, then you say well I need to go,I have a lot to do. You don't invite her anywhere,ask her to have the kids ready. Do not go into the house,ring the bell,and get the kids. Be friendly in front of kids.
> 
> The basis of this is that your wife needs to learn consequences,you are not her partner,you won't be there to rescue her. If she can't miss you,she can't regret her decision and even try to reconcile. I think the guys call this manning up. Not that your not manly but ever heard the saying,nice guys finish last. Search manning up. It might help you understand it from a man's perspective. Women, want a man in charge,not someone they can basically run over,and just tell how it is. Do some searching.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Make no mistake - your wife completely set you up at the hearing. Her lawyer had a legal and ethical duty to tell her what would happen. They both knew and she hung you out to dry. Remember, she tried to get you *not* to show up at all! Have you ever wondered what would have happened then?

Why would you want to be friends with a person who would treat you that way? Don't you deserve better?


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

The above posters are spot on.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I agree I'm being too nice, I will look up the manning up. It is just in my nature to be a nice guy, but I understand what you are saying. Nice guys do finish last I guess, in my case anyway. I called the kids last night about 9:00 to tell them good night and while I was talking to my daughter I could hear her in the background saying ok that's enough, let your brother talk. Then my son talked about two seconds and my wife said ok son thats enough talk to him tomorrow. The only reason I called at 9:00 was because I called about 8:30 and no one answered. I texted her later and said the screaming in the background was a little ridiculous. She texted me back this morning and said she didn't mean to be an a$$ but the kids were in bed. I texted her back and said she was being an a$$ because the kids couldn't have been in bed for more than 2 minutes and it wasn't like I was going to talk for 30, and if she would answer the phone it would have been a non-issue. I hate to do it but I can play the not answer game when I have them. Half the time she never calls to talk to them anyway, which is really odd. Thanks for the posts guys.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If you want a free copy of Dr Robert Glover's book 'No More Mr Nice Guy', all you have to do is click on the link below and you can download it to your computer.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thanks morituri, I'll start reading tonight. Had a pretty good night tonight, after I picked the kids up at school we went to the state fair. It has always been a tradition that we get a family photo and the ex gets a coffee cup with the picture on it, and a piece of tile with the picture on it. The kids and I got the tile and while we were waiting we were looking at the displays and they had a key chain that had our family picture from last year on display. That really brought me down, we all looked so happy. I was doing alright and seeing that photo just sucked it right out of me, just sad.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bowhunter, I know it makes you sad but this time next year, it will be totally different,one way or another. The kids are your family now. Take this time to work on you. 

Don't engage into fighting with her and only text if it is necessary. Text her saying, I would appreciate it if you could find time that is convenient in your schedule that I may call to talk to my children. I plan to stay in their life and I plan to call and say goodnight. Since the times are not working for you since you refuse to answer the phone, I would like to know what time is good for you. 

I absolutley think nice guys are great, but sometimes being nice lets people run over you. She has been in total control of everything. Now you need to let her know that you will also be making decisions. I do not believe she had no idea about the divorce as lawyers are required to inform their clients. Why would she not want you there? To make you look like a dead beat dad and hubby? Remember, she is telling you how angry she is and let you have it. Sometimes that resentment causes people to be sneaky,or unforthcoming just to see what they can get past the other person. Read and study up, but no argueing, you can't show you lost your cool.

Obviously, we only know your side of the story, but that gives her no right to tell you not to come to games for your kids, when you can talk to them, or how you are supposed to feel as she didn't care enough how to try. Don't express your feelings to her, she wants to keep you on a leash and knowing how you feel gives her more ammo. Don't respond to her snotty comments. You are better than that. She will also fume when you don't respond! Read the book and apply the rules. Hang in there, it will work but you need to work on you first!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

tamara thanks. My son had a hitting lesson last night and she showed up, I really said nothing to her and she said nothing to me. She took my daughter to a classmates birthday party because after my son's hitting lesson he had a birthday party to go to. I told her I would call when we left the party and I would get my daughter. My son's party ended about 8 and when I got in the truck I called her and she said they had just got in her car. I told her to just go to the house and I would come get my daughter, but I called her back and told her to just meet me at the convenience store by my apartment(makes it easier for me). When my son and I showed up I got my daughter out of the car and we were going to go in and get a snack, she acted like she was going to come in so I asked her if she was coming in or leaving? she said she was going in to get a snack. we all went in, I still said nothing to her while we were in there. She got nothing and told the kids by and said nothing to me and left. She looked tired and surprisingly I don't think she went out last. She came to get the kids at 9 this morning and her keys fell in between the seat and the console and she couldn't get them so I did. I told the kids bye and she actually said bye to me. I told her by and they left. It is really hard to kinda ignore her. I have to try and get some sleep today because I work tonight 6pm till 6:30am and my son has baseball games tomorrow at 1:00 and 4:00, then back to work at 6:00pm till 6:30am. one thing she did ask my son about his party that I thought was kinda odd was "who was at the party?", my son started naming kids and she said "no, what parents were there?" I don't know why she would want to know that, it was just odd.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Ok, do you see what happened. You ignored her,she goes into the store and bought nothing. It was an excuse. She is thinking why is he not trying to talk to me? You are making her second guess herself.Don't ask if she is coming? It is a sign of you hoping, be indifferent. You are calling her too much. Think ahead and make the plan. Son is at a party,pick up daughter at point A. Don't call and change the plan unless necessary. 

I know this is hard,but it will pay off. Look what happened when you did just a bit of it. Be strong,confident andtotally indifferent. She is still in the fog of anger and resentment but as you change,she is changing. You ignored she followed you in(manning up). Good job! I know it is hard keep doing it! It won't hurt anything!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> one thing she did ask my son about his party that I thought was kinda odd was "who was at the party?", my son started naming kids and she said "no, what parents were there?" I don't know why she would want to know that, it was just odd.



After my divorce was finalized, a good friend of mine recommended that I should start dating. I thought he was insane considering that it was like asking a man who just had his legs crushed to get up and dance. Nevertheless, he persisted until I did go out on a couple of dates. While my intention on those dates was never to form a romantic relationship with the women I went out with, I did make good friends with some of those women. Their female support, helped me tremendously in both my emotional healing and in rebuilding of my poor, battered self esteem.

Perhaps your emotional detachment from her is giving her suspicions that you might be involved with another woman. If that is the case, I say good because she made you into an available man to the available women out there. Since you are single man once again, there is no valid reason for you not to start going out on dates with different women.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I see what you are saying Tamara, but I really think she just hates me. I know she blames me for the situation we are in and everything else for that matter. I had to take my son's uniform and baseball bag to him before I came to work tonight, I rang the doorbell and my son opened the door. I walked in and set his stuff by the door, my daughter came around the corner to say hi. My ex was in the kitchen, she never said anything and I didn't either. She went into another part of the house and I went into the kitchen to see if I had any mail there. I told my son bye and went into my daughters room to tell her bye and I left, never saying a word to the ex. I got half way to work and I thought I felt my phone vibrate, I pulled it out of my pocket and looked and it was a missed call from her phone. I didn't know if it was her or my son so I called back, it went straight to voicemail, so I called again and she anwered, I asked if it was her or my son that called and she said it dialed by accident, I said ok and hung up. 

Morituri, I could not imagine myself going out on a date at this point. I know it will happen eventually, but I don't think I could do it. As much progress I have made so far, I know when she goes out on a date it will set me back about 10 steps. If I was ready to go out on a date, I don't know when that would take place. I work 12 hour shifts and on the days I am off, I have the kids(which is great). I have started house shopping and that has taken my mind off some of this, which is good. If I can get a house and out of that apartment I think that will lift my spirits a little. 

thanks for all the support guys and gals.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

At this point,I know your hurt and filled with tons of feelings that you can't imagine. But the real question is,do you want to be with her? Kids aside,and it was just the two of you,would you except this behavior? Even if she is angry and miserable because you didn't treat her right,she was not a complete angel in the marraige either. It does take two people to destroy a marraige. Yes, you were late at picking up her cues she was unhappy and she didn't get what she needed from you. But what about her? She had an affair,she tells you that you don't need to come to events that involve your children and ignores you?

Just a woman's take on this, but she is seeing how far she can push it with you. If the phone call was from her phone and you called her once,that is it. No second call. Text and say,is my son trying to reach me as I got a call from your number. You do not need to talk to her or engage her. Right now, this is for your sake. If down the line, she realizes the mistake she has made and you get together,great. But the distance you put between you know is to help you get all your emotions in check. Once your head clears believe it or not,YOU might be thinking why did I ever want this woman back? I am all for marraige,but she made the choice so now moving forward is the only option that will help you. Yesbe nice and get along for the kids and in front of the kids, but do not keep calling. It makes you look desperate. Plus since you didn't go after her saying why are you not talking to me and just left. She probably thought of some excuse to call you,and you didn't answer and she thought better of it. She is trying to push it as far as possible and when you finally lose it,she will be see this is why I divorced you!

Still keep it all business until YOUR head clears. Then you will be able to handle any games she might play or how she treats you in front of the kids. Do not look desperate. Honestly, no matter what happens between the hubby and I, I would still treat him with the respect he deserves as being my child's father. At one time we loved each other enough to have a life together,some good,some bad but still,respect would be present at all times. He feels the same way. You deserve at least that. Just keep the 180 going and try it,don't be calling unless it is for the kids. Give it a month and if it doesn't work,do it your way. Just. Stick to it. I know it is hard, but it will pay off in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I totally understand your point of view bowhunter, just remember that eventually you will have to make an effort to develop new friends and that should include women.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Tamara, she never had an affair to my knowledge but to answer your question kids aside yes I do still love the woman I married, but unfortunately that is not who I am dealing with. The woman I am dealing with now is a cold, sarcastic, and selfish witch, and no I don't love this woman. I got home this morning from work and got about 3 hours of sleep and got up to go to my son's baseball games. She called just before I jumped in the shower and said she couldn't remember how to get to the fields, so I told her once again. I got to the game and my daughter and her were kicking a football around and I went and hugged my daughter and told her hi. I said nothing to my ex. My parents showed up and sat next to me and the ex sat on the other side of my parents and daughter. She mentioned a couple of times that I needed to tell my son to do this or that and I just said I know, but other than that I never said a word to her. I guess I am starting to get a handle on this 180 thing kinda. I haven't really gotten mad during this whole situation, frustrated yes but not necessarily angry, well last night my mind was turning and turning and the anger is really starting to set in. She has torn our family apart and I only get to see my kids half the time, I have to start all over in life, my kids will never be in a tradtional family ever again just because she is looking for greener pasture. She said it wasn't a bad marriage, it just wasn't a great marriage. I admit it wasn't great, but where we are now is horrible for everyone involved except her obviously. It just pisses me off that she has made this choice, but there is nothing I can do but make the most of my time with the kids when I have them and move on. You are right the emotions are everywhere, but I can really start to feel the anger now, I have to keep that in check. I just get so down about the kids because I know they miss both of us when They are with one or the other. It just breaks my heart because I know how much I miss them when they aren't with me, so if they feel anything remotely close to that it is just wrong.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Morituri, I know it will eventually happen and I look forward to being that confident again. I hope it gets here soon.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Be very careful with anger. It is toxic, along with its twin sibling, bitterness. If you allow them residency, you will be poisong your heart and soul.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm not an angry person by nature, it comes and goes. I really guess it is more frustration than anything, but I agree with ya Morituri.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

You may not be an angry person by nature, but this will send you through tons of emotions. Keep the 180 going. Tell her she needs to mapquest directions to the field. She can't rely on you, you are not her husband,let her figure it out. 

Yep, keep the anger in check and stay cool as a cucumber,dress well and laugh and smile when you pick up the kids and engage with them. Even if you feel like crud. Let her see a confident man, one that MIGHT be thinking about dating again, because he is dressed nicely and smells really good, Sometimes the little green monster can provoke some strong feelings in a woman when she thinks she still has a man by the leash after she dumps him. 

Get yourself together before dating, but do go out and make friends as M suggested,including women. They can lend a sympathetic ear, and remind you there are woman that do appreciate a good man. You are not there yet,but maybe later...


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Bowhunter, the little things she is doing and saying (like dropping car keys between seat and console, calling you about how to get to baseball field, etc) is toying with you like a cat and mouse game.

Full 180. Man up. She is yanking you like a yo yo. Do you really want to live like this? Live like you mean it! Like you are a new man and you do as you please.

She pulls another little "helpless me" trick, tell her that you are sure that she can figure it out herself (and maybe a little zinger about how she didn't call you to help her find the judge and finalize the divorce without telling you). 

But keep it matter-of-fact and leave her to simmer in her smugness.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Tamara, it is funny you said that about smelling good, because I just remembered that the other day when I took my son to his hitting lesson I put some cologne on. when we were walking out the door my son said dad are you wearing cologne and I said yes I am son, he said "why?". I just said because I don't want to stink, but that is the night my xw was there at his hitting lesson and I took my son to the birthday party and afterwards my xw asked my son what parents were there. Maybe she smelled the cologne also and thought maybe there were some mothers there. Don't really think that is the case, just a thought.

Dad, I don't think she is toying with me about the directions, she is really coo-coo for cocoa puffs when it comes to directions, she just really is geographically challenged, always has been. I had to give her the directions or my son would have missed his games and ended up in another state. But I understand what you are saying.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

She may be coo coo about directions(as so am I), but you are NOT the only person she could have asked. She could have called your parents or a parent of one of the other kids or used a computer. It is a game. She knows you know how helpless she is with directions so she can cal, you to gage your response. If your warm and willing,then she still has you hooked. If you are short and to the point,she starts to worry.

If I just divorced you, regardless of liking or not liking the inlaws, I would not be sitting next to you. I would be way to uncomfortable. I would have found another parent to sit by so you could not talk to me. She sat next to your parents. This is no longer the same relationship. You witnessed that by her facebook announcement. As you said, she is not the same woman.

We are telling you, do the manning up thing(this really attracts a woman,heaven knows why,maybe a guy can explain that part),and the 180 because as you are doing bits and pieces, you are seeing an outcome. oh you bet if you are not a man who wears cologne all the time and she got a wiff, her territory must be getting ready to be invaded! Of course she wants to know who ws there. Mind you at this point, she would be able to justify herself dating but would find it very upsetting if you were dating. She still wants her cake and eat it too! Keep working on it, and watch the change and the things she will notice about you. Also go get a new haircut/style and buy some nice clothes that she hasn't seen before. That will really get her to wondering why the..... is he not begging me to come back??? Keep her guessing. She will eventually want to talk, I suggest you refuse her at the beginning to let her know that you are not going to accept this behavior. When she starts being respectful, and using please and thank you's, then you can talk to her. Until then the mean, spiteful brat, will have to fend for herself!(I can say that because I was a fun loving,easy going person that turned into just that)


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## winner54 (Aug 12, 2008)

From Avalon:

"He doesn't interact with our kids beyond "please pass the salt." He and I talk a bit, but it's all very superficial, daily household stuff. When I tell him that I'm unhappy or try to talk about a difficult subject (i.e. our marriage) he totally closes up and won't talk. Essentially, I'm married now to a complete stranger. He has distanced himself sooooo much emotionally over the past several years that if he came up to me today and said he wanted to work things through, I honestly don't know if I'd want to try to patch things up. 

As I've mentioned in other posts... I feel like I've been beating my head against a brick wall for years. After so many times, you start to realize that it hurts, and that the brick wall isn't going to move or give, even though you've been trying for years. Enough times of doing that, and you give up hope and go into self-preservation mode."

I'm right there with you. The only exception is, when my hub and I tried to talk about difficult situations, I would get blamed....as wtih everything. I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, was too naive', or that I was trying to make him look like a fool. Our 2 girls are older now and they still love their father, but they have both told me that they fell that he was only in it for whatever glory they could give him, i.e. sports or education wise. 
I've also been hitting my head against a brick wall. Hardly any tenderness or compassion.....all business, even our sex life. After practically begging for 12 years, he has finally agreed to a divorce. Maybe it's another woman (this would be the 3rd, at least), or maybe it's the fact that our youngest daughter and her 2 girls live with us and he shows his contempt towards her every day.
I hope your situation has gotten better since you posted. Good luck.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Hey Bowhunter!
I was looking for a house too, and saw several that were dumps at first!!! It would have helped me to know what to expect, so that I wasnt so discouraged about it. I DID however find a house, and just recently had the inspection done on it. Things are moving in the right direction towards it, so I just wanted to share and send a bit of hope your way towards that search!!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

Tamara, I really do need a haircut. The funny thing is, that is what she does, we opened up our own hair salon about 1 year after we were married and she is the only person that has cut my hair for the past 12 years. I did go to a cheap hair cutting place 1 time since I left and it was really odd feeling. I will find somewhere to get it cut tomorrow because I really need it cut. She called today, I didn't answer, then she left a text saying we needed to go to the attorney's office and sign a quick claim deed for the house today or tomorrow. I replied about 3 hours later saying tomorrow. The hits just keep on coming!! On the bright side I do get to pick the kids up from school tomorrow!! yes!!!!

Shoo, congratulations on the house! I have an appointment with a realtor on wednesday to go look at a couple of houses, I really hope to find one. It would really lift my spirits I believe and I know the kids would enjoy it more than the apartment. I hope to find one that I can fix up a little, I like doing home maintenance kinda stuff and a small project like that would maybe take my mind off all the bs.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> She called today, I didn't answer, then she left a text saying we needed to go to the attorney's office and sign a quick claim deed for the house today or tomorrow. I replied about 3 hours later saying tomorrow. The hits just keep on coming!!


Please tell me you are getting your own attorney to assist you. She has already sandbagged you once in the legal area - there is no reason to think she won't again. Her attorney represents her, not you. That attorney is not looking out for your best interests. You need to protect yourself. Just because the two of them say you need to sign the quit-claim does not make it true!


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Ummmm, why are you signing a quit claim deed? You do realize that means YOU no longer have any claim to what you sign. Maybe you know this and have it all worked out, just concerned here.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Locard said:


> Ummmm, why are you signing a quit claim deed? You do realize that means YOU no longer have any claim to what you sign. Maybe you know this and have it all worked out, just concerned here.


But are still financially responsible if your name is still on a mortgage/loans/debts?


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

thanks guys, our divorce is final and in our agreement I let her keep the house. I know really dumb on my part, I took nothing for the business that we started together and she got the house. I guess that is the blowback from being a nice guy, I get to walk away with just my "stuff" and start all over. The quick-claim deed is just to get my name off the title. atleast we do have joint custody and I get my kids half the time, better than every other weekend. This is where the anger comes in, If I would have known she was going to be such a witch then I wouldn't have been such a nice guy and gave her everything. I just really didn't think it was going to end up like this. Lesson learned, but expensive lesson.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Drive on and don't look back!


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm doing my best, but it sure is hard. It would be so much easier if I didn't have to see her or talk to her so often. I mean I still talk or see her everyday because of something with the kids. She called earlier this afternoon to ask if I wanted to go on a field trip with my daughter in a couple of weeks, she couldn't go, then started to try and critisize my choice of dinner for the kids. I just said is that all you wanted, then she said yes, I said ok bye. I'm not going to put up with that crap anymore, I'm not going to argue, I'm just not going to listen to it. we are not married any more and I'm not going to listen to it.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Good for you! Cut her off when she starts nagging, you are not married anymore! When you have your kids, your choice of dinner is your business and not hers unless you are giving them candy and sugar and sending them home. I somehow doubt that is the case. 

Stop answering the phone and just let her text you as that seems what she does anyway. This gives you an oppurtunity to keep it short and to the point and avoiding some of the pain of talking to her everyday. That brings up another question. I just left hubby with the kids for the week to stay with my gram. Although, I spoke with the kids and him daily or texted there was no need to talk EVERYDAY in the sense, that he could handle things himself or text me with a question. Why does she have to talk to you on a daily basis? On the days your kids are with her, inform her that you will be calling an hour after dinner(whatever works for you) to speak to the kids. There is no need for her to even answer the phone as she will get the point that it is you calling. This will give you the emotional distance you need. 

Find one of her really sexy haircutting friends and have them cut your hair, that will get her goat!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> thanks guys, our divorce is final and in our agreement I let her keep the house. I know really dumb on my part, I took nothing for the business that we started together and she got the house. I guess that is the blowback from being a nice guy, I get to walk away with just my "stuff" and start all over. The quick-claim deed is just to get my name off the title. atleast we do have joint custody and I get my kids half the time, better than every other weekend. This is where the anger comes in, If I would have known she was going to be such a witch then I wouldn't have been such a nice guy and gave her everything. I just really didn't think it was going to end up like this. Lesson learned, but expensive lesson.


I can not stress this enough - get a lawyer to help you. If you are on the mortgage, a quit claim may not be enough. You have to get off the mortgage as well. Rememeber *SHE AND HER ATTORNEY ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR YOU, THEY ARE LOOKING OUT FOR HER. * They are doing and saying what is in her best interests. Just because they tell you that it should be done a certain way does not mean it is the only way, or the best way for you. You need to start looking out for you, because unfortunately, it is clear she quit doing that some time ago!


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Have you been able to get out to the woods yet? Take advantage of the additional time to yourself. It's bow season here.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Her nagging may just be a desire for attention. For many women, attention is one of their top emotional needs. It may be for her as well. But as you yourself so eloquently put it, you are no longer married. You may want to consider pointing that out to her politely and that she now has to find someone else to fulfill that emotional need.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

hunting, bow season opened up oct 1 here. and no I haven't had a chance yet. but am looking forward to it.

Tamara, I went to go get my hair cut earlier, went into one salon and they were booked up, the lady suggested I go just down the street, so I did. I walked in there and there were about 4 girls that used to work at our salon. I had no clue they worked there and I didn't think they recognized me. I got my hair cut by a girl I didn't know and left without talkng to anyone. about an hour later a girl that used to work at our salon friended me on facebook, she works at the salon where I just got my hair cut, but she wasn't there. about 10 minutes later my ex called asking why I friended her, and why I disrespected her by going to that salon when I knew all those girls worked there. I told her that I didn't know they all worked there and it was just bad luck I even ended up there. She was just livid and screaming and calling me every name in the book. then she texted me that if I buy a house in what she calls "the hood", she was going to fight me for full custody. she and her sister defriended me on facebook. Boy, all I did was walk in and get a hair cut.

guys, I think I am covered as far as the quick claim deed, it says in our agreement that she gets the house and I am free from any financial aspects of the house.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Dude - you FAILED the test. You don't have to take that crap from her. 

She DOESN'T get to have an opinion anymore on anything that happens in your life. Time for YOU to put HER in her place - respectfully that is.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

WTF is it to her????


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WTF.... she wants the best of both worlds she has you to berate and the house and a baby sitter for the kids. Bow please. You are not married to her anymore. You are no longer defined by her. 

Keep going to the salon and chat up the girls there. Is the girl who befriended you married? If not send her a friendly PM and see what happens. You need to get out and meet women. You have to disengage from the toxic ex. 

You are free of her and lucky at that. You have a future that is bright but you must fix you first. What do you think about IC? If you don't change you will attract another beoch. 

Start going out and pull out all the stops to change. Why not make your goal to be a happy man in 3 months? Talk to your wife about the kids only. 

Let her handle the day to day problems she is their mother and a divorced woman that's what they do. When she stars to yell talk over her and say it is not your concern what she thinks. or if it is something that does concern her tell her to call back when she is civil and shut the phone. 

Do not be her husband without the benefits of a husband. Come on, get busy!!! ,


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

catherine, I'm not interested in the other girl. She left our salon on bad terms and started a lot of drama with the ex and her sister. I never even talked to her or even seen her today. one of those other girls told her I was in, I guess. I didn't even know any of those girls worked there. The ex sent me a text saying if I didn't know they worked there then that just shows how disengaged I was in the marriage. Why would I care where those girls worked? It is just so dumb. I just wanted to get a hair cut. The ex then sent a text saying that she is more embarrased by this than the failure of the marriage, that so far she has wanted a civil divorce, but that has now changed. And yes I have been going to IC now for about 6 weeks. Boy, oh Boy.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Bowhunter you need to really man up badly. Click on the *The Man Up and Nice Guy Reference* and read until you absorb it thoroughly.

Lastly don't fall for her stupid threats. You have rights as a father and if she tries to obstruct those rights you can make her life a legal living hell. The next time she threatens you calmly reply to her 'Go for it' and hang up on her.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

If you guys are divorced why is she even still talking about custody?
Don't let her threaten you with that ****. If you guys already agreed upon joint phyical custody, the judge agreed and finished your divorce then there is nothing that she can do. At this point, to get full custody she has to prove you to be an unfit parent and that can be a pretty hard thing to do when she had no problems with your parenting before you got the divorce.
I think you need to go back to that salon and get a shave/trim today. If she has a problem with it, tell her "If it has nothing to do with the kids, you have on opinion. You gave up any right to an opinion about anything I do." then hang up on her.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Bowhunter, that last one kills me about wanting a civil divorce, cupcake its over!!!!! You do need to man up!!

She has NO respect for you. Why be her whipping boy still? Don't ever think that you need to take this abuse to secure seeing your children. You need to remind her that you are divorced and will do as you please, go as you please, DATE as you please and to stop texting you unless it is about the kids. Do you thinks she still cares about you when she threatens to take your kids away becase you got a fricken haircut??????? 

I would go so far as to secure a DATE ASAP!! You would probably see a mushroom cloud from your former home. These texts just confirm what we have been saying all along. Your wife wants to cake eat. She wants freedom for herself and service from you. She really is in lala land and YOU let her.


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

I agree with you all and I really have had my fill of her crap. I still have a bunch of tools and guns and what not in my shop at the house and we agreed verbally to let me keep that store that stuff in there until I found a house.(should have gotten it in writing). she calls yesterday and says I have 30 days from the divorce final to get my stuff or she can donate it to goodwill. Guess I'm gonna have to find a storage. Some of the stuff that comes out of her mouth and things she texts, I really think she has lost her mind. We'll see how today goes.


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Remember, that little green eyed monster I warned you about? Here you go! To her, you went to the enemy on purpose and she really thinks you discussed her. That is what has her going! But guess what? So what if you did, she wanted the divorce and she got it. Do not let her yell at you. Calmly reply, If you are so worried about my actions and want a say in what I do or do not do, then maybe you should have not rushed the divorce. I am not married to you and I do not answer to you.

As far as a civil divorce, it was a sneaky divorce. She was nice enough just to get what she wanted, now she is showing her true colors. She wants the drama. Do not give it to her. So she took you off her facebook, so? Your life will not end. What do you think she told her sister to get her to defriend you? Nothing positive! 

I can't stress this enough,educate yourself! Read the stuff we told you even if it kills you to read. You need to learn how to be more assertive towards her and there is a difference between assertive and threatening. She is beyond the let me explain period. She will believe what she wants to believe no matter what you say. She is trying to depict you as the bad guy in all this. You are not. She has just as much to blame in this marraige as you did. She let her hatred and anger ruin a relationship and now she wants to pin that on you. She can't have her cake and eat it too!

I know you don't want to date as regardless, the woman has gone nuts, but you still have feelings for her. You can't just flip the switch in a two week time period. But I certainly would go out with friends including women. Go as a group, go out to dinner. The more you mope around and try to explain to her the tighter that leash becomes on you. The more assertive you become and show her that you intend to get on with life, she will realize she has no control! Look what happened from a harmless haircut. If you don't take a stand now, it will be just a matter of time before she involves the kids and when you can see them. It will just be inconveinient for you to have them during the week, then something will be planned on the weekend you have them. It is her way of controlling what you do. She does not have that right anymore. Learn to stay calm, no explaining anything to her, assert yourself and remind her she ended the marraige,not you. Please read the manning up thing M told you about. Never lose your cool, she is waiting on that.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bowhunter said:


> guys, I think I am covered as far as the quick claim deed, it says in our agreement that she gets the house and I am free from any financial aspects of the house.


How do you know that? If it is just your wife, why do you believe her? Will you be signing other papers that get you off the mortgage? If not, then why do you assume that you are free from the financial aspects?

You are probably right that the final decree covers you. But what you may not realize is that decree has to be filed or provided to a bunch of folks, like the bank, to make sure that they don't come after you later. If you don't do that, and they do come after you, it will get very expensive trying to show them that you are not responsible. I can mess up your credit and really hurt you. And there is no real downside for her to keep you on things. It may give her leverage to try and get more (not cooperating unless you up child support, etc.).


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tamara24 said:


> Remember, that little green eyed monster I warned you about? Here you go! To her, you went to the enemy on purpose and she really thinks you discussed her. That is what has her going! But guess what? So what if you did, she wanted the divorce and she got it. Do not let her yell at you. Calmly reply, If you are so worried about my actions and want a say in what I do or do not do, then maybe you should have not rushed the divorce. I am not married to you and I do not answer to you.


While I try to avoid taking cues from Hollywood, there was a very relevant scene on a television show last Sunday. A couple had separated at the wife's request and appear on the verge of divorce. They were arguing over some minor parenting decisions, and she was lecturing him about how he needs to be more responsible as it makes her look like the bad person. As some point, the light switched on, and he said in the past, I had to sit her and listen to you, but since you don't want to be married to me, I no longer have to. He then turned around and walked away, with her jaw dropping on the floor. 

I suspect your X is the same, in that it never even occured to her that she would not continue to have a say in your life. Setting it out like this will likely be a real eye-opener.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Face it bowhunter, your ex-wife doesn't see you as a man but simply as the emasculated father of her children. Granted that you still pine for her but she doesn't pine for you. Through her actions, she no longer gets a say as to who you see and who you spend your time with. Man up already.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Bowhunter, how are you doing?


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## bowhunter (Sep 5, 2011)

locard, I'm doing good, thanks for asking. I have good days and bad days. this week has been kinda busy at work so I haven't had much time for much. But no contact with the ex since sunday at my sons game and she was still stewing from the haircut incident. I'm ready for this week to be over with for sure. wanting to look at a few more houses next week.


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## kat456 (Oct 11, 2011)

Avalon said:


> From a woman's perspective... at least in my case, I'm sick to death of being the "glue" that has held our family together the last 8 years out of a 23-year marriage. Husband is addicted to his job and the Internet, he provides well financially but that is the entire extent of his participation in family. There is no EA or PA on either of our parts. I know this because he is either at work or at home, (and works about half of his time at home) 100% of the time. No friends, no hobbies, no interests, no life.
> 
> He doesn't interact with our kids beyond "please pass the salt." He and I talk a bit, but it's all very superficial, daily household stuff. When I tell him that I'm unhappy or try to talk about a difficult subject (i.e. our marriage) he totally closes up and won't talk. Essentially, I'm married now to a complete stranger. He has distanced himself sooooo much emotionally over the past several years that if he came up to me today and said he wanted to work things through, I honestly don't know if I'd want to try to patch things up.
> 
> ...


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## kat456 (Oct 11, 2011)

The last paragraph of your post is exactly what I feel!! I totally feel like I have been beating my head against a wall for YEARS! 

My H just wouldn't listen!! I'd tell him how upset I was. He couldn't hear me. I was my issue. I'd tell him how he was making me feel. Again he just wouldn't hear me. 

I became so frustrated, angry , and bitter that I left and I can not even think about trying to make it work. I cannot even think of marriage counseling. I am just done! I am just trying to get out to save myself.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Bowhunter, it's been awhile, are you still out there? How are you holding up?


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