# Wifes Sudden Change



## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

My wife recently took a new job and has made friends at her new place of employment and she has changed. I may be looking at this all wrong but for some reason I can't stop thinking about it.

First off her new friends at work are partiers and casual marjuana smokers and heavy drinkers. A couple are single and a couple are unhappily married. She has gone to a couple of parties at their houses, which I let her go too. She now has been making plans to attend parties like she never has before.

She is has been asking me stuff like " So and so who is married, but hates her husband is talking to a guy and they fool around and she gives oral to this guy, Do you think that is cheating? What would you call cheating? Kissing? Penetration, etc?" To me it almost seems like she is checking my boundries.

All of the sudden she has this sexual drive that I have never seen before. She wants it every day and a couples times a day if she can squeeze it in. She wants to try new things as well.

this sudden change has me worried, do you all feel like this is something to really worry about or am I just insecure.

We have been married for 6 years, together for 12 and have two wonderful kids.


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## Dubya (Oct 2, 2012)

If you aren't comfortable with this, then you should put a stop to it. I wouldnt be confortable with this situation.

You don't want to come off controlling so you are coming here to make sure you are in the right. I do not think you are being insecure about this.

You wonder if she is checking your boundaries. She was. She was also ****-testing you by asking you this. How did you respond?
Deal with this before it goes far.


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Is she having an affair?


I don't know as of yet. I don't see any idication of it. This sudden change of behavior and all these questions and scenerios she ask about just has me questioning why.

She tells me things about people at work like "this person wants to sleep with this one guy at work." and "The people at work send naked pictures of each other to other people at work" and "This lady likes to sleep with younger guys and has two or three guys she see's on a regualr basis"

And these are the people she has befriended at work.

I'm just confused and concerned. She is planning an overnight trip out of town with this groupl of people in the coming months for a music concert. It's not giving me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Hence while I am here discussing it.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Tell her you want to be a part of this wonderful new life of hers full of healthy new friendships, so you'd like to start going to these awesome parties with her. Sell it as a positive. Then spy from within. Find out what goes on.

Let us know how it goes.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

stevenks said:


> She is planning an overnight trip out of town with this groupl of people in the coming months for a music concert. It's not giving me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Hence while I am here discussing it.


You're joking, right? Either you go or she doesn't.

Are you trolling? I try not to accuse posters of that any more. I've read worse, but seriously?


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Dubya said:


> If you aren't comfortable with this, then you should put a stop to it. I wouldnt be confortable with this situation.
> 
> You don't want to come off controlling so you are coming here to make sure you are in the right. I do not think you are being insecure about this.
> 
> ...


My reponse was basically "I feel anything intimate such as kissing, groping, etc. would be cheating." She metioned something like she thinks any "Penatration" would be cheating. I asked what she would use to define penatration and she said "The obvious, and deep kissing"


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

MrK said:


> You're joking, right? Either you go or she doesn't.
> 
> Are you trolling? I try not to accuse posters of that any more. I've read worse, but seriously?


My thoughs are exactly this. 

I'm not trolling, I am dead serious about this. I have nobody else to discuss this with, and usually wouldnt turn to a forum to address issues.

I am concerned and acutally scared about this.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She's exposed to new situations and, as is typical for a woman, she validates her experiences by talking about them to someone she trusts. Women aren't guys and their communications aren't necessarily linked to a particular goal or purpose like our's. They just "share". Be glad she shares with you. If you were hearing these things about her instead of from her, you'd have reason to worry.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

stevenks said:


> I am concerned and acutally scared about this.


You are in for one heck of a ride. This ain't even CLOSE to over. Sounds like it hasn't even started yet. I feel for you. Good luck.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Next time she brings up oral, act confused and ask, "what's this "oral" of which you speak? Show me what you mean."


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

She's going out of town and is wondering what level of infidelity you are comfortable with. 

She's hanging out with a cheating crowd and probably likes what she sees in them. They seem to be having fun, she wants in.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"She is planning an overnight trip out of town with this groupl of people in the coming months for a music concert. It's not giving me a warm and fuzzy feeling"

DING! DING! DING! - Warning Will Robinson Warning!

Your wife is on a very slippery slope right now. Whether or not she's crossed any lines yet is to be seen but I wouldn't be surprised.

First and foremost, either you go with her on this trip so you can meet these cool new people or she doesn't go.

Next, today you reach out to your cell phone provider and get the records for her phone. You may be able to do this on-line. Look for ALOT of texts/calls to 1 or 2 numbers you don'r recognoze. Also, can you get a hold of her phone and look at her texts? Are there more texts on the bill than what are showing on the phone?

Later today, get to Walmart or BestBuy and get 2 voice activated recorders (VARs) and place one under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. Keep the other one to switch out with the first

Last, get a keylogger on the PC as soon as possible

Now sit back and monitor. Trust but verify and go to the infidelity section here at TAM and do some reading FAST!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

stevenks said:


> My reponse was basically "I feel anything intimate such as kissing, groping, etc. would be cheating." She metioned something like she thinks any "Penatration" would be cheating. I asked what she would use to define penatration and she said "The obvious, and deep kissing"


Now is your time to Man Up.

You now need to create and assert personal boundaries to deal with the situation you find yourself in. To create and learn how to enforce your boundaries read Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men: Wayne M. Levine: 9780979054402: Amazon.com: Books.

Basically you need to assert boundaries of intolerance. For example “You're planning an overnight trip with this group of people? That’s a deal breaker for me.”.

Don’t explain yourself when she asks what you mean because for sure she'll know and will just be playing you. As she is now. Don’t ever do that. Just tell her she’ll find out what you mean if she ever goes on that trip.

Same with her trying to define (or redefine lol) what constitutes cheating. Just tell her “You ever kiss another man that’s a deal breaker for me”. She really does need to know what YOUR boundaries are. Not those of the shetheads she works with. Don’t ever let her or them define your boundaries for you.

Just keep quietly but softly firmly, in an exceedingly unmoveable, un-persuadable way asserting your boundaries of intolerance.

You cannot ever control your wife. But you can tell her the type of behaviour that will end her marriage to you. Then it is her choice as to what she does. Good luck.


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## Jack29 (Oct 20, 2012)

stevenks said:


> She is has been asking me stuff like " So and so who is married, but hates her husband is talking to a guy and they fool around and she gives oral to this guy, Do you think that is cheating? What would you call cheating? Kissing? Penetration, etc?" To me it almost seems like she is checking my boundries.


Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when she asked you that? I belive if one has to explain to his wife that oral sex is cheating is enough to drive him mad right up the wall


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Jack29 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when she asked you that? I belive if one has to explain to his wife that oral sex is cheating is enough to drive him mad right up the wall


Let's say I felt it in my gut. She has never asked questions like this before, we have always been open about everything and this felt to me like someone dropped a bomb. I've been stewing over this since Saturday and just didn't really know where to turn or who to talk to.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

She asked that because she was planning on doing something on that trip.

She knows it's wrong but is trying to rationalize it by saying that intercourse is wrong but implying oral is OK, a la Clinton.

Look OP, she wants to emulate her new friends. She wants to give oral to some guy and is trying to persuade herself it's fine because her friend does it.

Get her away from those people, yesterday.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Malaise said:


> Get her away from those people, yesterday.


That


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

And one more thing about her questions about oral:

*She may have already done these things at these parties.*

Why would you let her go to parties with pot smokers, heavy drinking and people who openly cheat? The combination is sucking your wife into a new lifestyle. Getting her out may be a problem.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Maybe she was just asking, I know I sometimes wonder my dh's opinion on certain things doesn't mean I plan on doing it. 

Please don't take your or other people's assumptions to far. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but many relationships were forever tainted cause one spouse liked to assume things, not good.Communication is the key, stewing about it isn't going to do anything for her she can't read your mind. Say something.

Was your wife out of the workforce for awhile before she got this job or a sahm? Did she have friends before meeting them?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> Maybe she was just asking, I know I sometimes wonder my dh's opinion on certain things doesn't mean I plan on doing it.
> 
> Please don't take your or other people's assumptions to far. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but many relationships were forever tainted cause one spouse liked to assume things, not good.Communication is the key, stewing about it isn't going to do anything for her she can't read your mind. Say something.
> 
> Was your wife out of the workforce for awhile before she got this job or a sahm? Did she have friends before meeting them?


Unless she just got out of a convent she shouldn't have to ask if giving oral is cheating. IMHO


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

she planning on pushing the envelope!

time to put your foot down on her friends and protect your marriage. But I think she has already taken part in some of this .


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Malaise said:


> And one more thing about her questions about oral:
> 
> *She may have already done these things at these parties.*
> 
> Why would you let her go to parties with pot smokers, heavy drinking and people who openly cheat? The combination is sucking your wife into a new lifestyle. Getting her out may be a problem.


I didn't know this information about these coworkers until after she attended one of the parties, and the other one she went to I was with her and we stayed for about 10 minutes so she could make an appearance.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm think she's already stepping out. Don't get me wrong, her asking you if oral was a dealbreaker is just her testing you to see if you are going to react like a maniac if and when you do find out. You need to place a VAR( voice activated recorder under her car seat), phone tap, deep ops, that kind of thing. 

Would infidelity be a deal breaker? Would you serve her divorce papers if you found out that she was cheating(without confronting her and going through all the drama)?


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> Was your wife out of the workforce for awhile before she got this job or a sahm? Did she have friends before meeting them?


She has always worked. She worked in a goverment office and now works in a manufacturing shop, doing IT work. Same field just new place with younger, dare I say less professional people.

She seems much happier working there than at the previous place. She had friends prior and still associates with them. Most are single as well.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Malaise said:


> Unless she just got out of a convent she shouldn't have to ask if giving oral is cheating. IMHO


Believe it or not, some people don't think it is. People do have different beliefs. Some people say talking to someone of the opposite sex everyday on the phone that isn't your spouse is an affair. I know people that would laugh at that and say its ridiculous. Same goes for porn, how many think it's cheating and how many think it's not? How many men or women had oral done to them by someone other than their partner and said "it was* just* oral" as to imply it wasn't a big deal. Cheating is defined differently by many people in this world.

Like I said, I'm not saying she isn't doing anything cause she could be.


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Would infidelity be a deal breaker? Would you serve her divorce papers if you found out that she was cheating(without confronting her and going through all the drama)?


It would be a deal breaker for me no doubt about that.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> Believe it or not, some people don't think it is. People do have different beliefs. Some people say talking to someone of the opposite sex everyday on the phone that isn't your spouse is an affair. I know people that would laugh at that and say its ridiculous. Same goes for porn, how many think it's cheating and how many think it's not? How many men or women had oral done to them by someone other than their partner and said "it was* just* oral" as to imply it wasn't a big deal. Cheating is defined differently by many people in this world.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not saying she isn't doing anything cause she could be.


Point taken


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Then you better start collecting evidence in the background. Install a keylogger onto her laptop( I assume she has one and takes it to work). But all of them being colleauges, communication wouldn't be a problem.

How is her relationship with her phone? Is it glued to her hand always,even at night, even when she's in the bathroom? And what model is it?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry, but she's already done some of this at these parties.

Look, simply put - you're wife is now hanging out with toxic besties who are openly cheating around her and telling her how wonderful it is.

Go read the cheaters on doccool .com - these are the women you're wife is not hanging with and wanting to emulate.

My advice on fixing this:

1. Read Married MAn's Sex Life by Kay Athol and get yourself going on the MAP ASAP!

2. Visit doccool. com and read views of the women there.

3. You need to go to everyone of these parties.

4. You MUST go to that concert weekend. these women are going to be hooking up and cheating there. It's what they love to do and why they are going. What do you think you're wife is going to be doing when they are out man hunting and having sex? Watching HBO by herself?

5. You need to get a VAR put into her car, to hear what she is saying to people in there and on the phone.

6. You need to check her phone and see who she's texting and what she's saying.

7. you need to get your wife away from these women or else you will have an exWife, and you need to do it as quickly as you can. 


you wife is already exhibiting clear signs of being in an affair. She's going out more alone, she's partying without you, her sex drive is through the roof. She's questioning where the boundaries acceptable in a marriage are. 

You know that these women are cheaters. That means at these parties their husbands aren't there, it's the guys they are cheating with. These guys will also be hitting on your wife, and bringing their buddies to be her date. That's why your wife's sex drive is up. She's getting worked up by these other guys and the stories of the fun sex second life from the toxic cheating friends.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Can you have her tailed by a PI when she goes to this concert?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

OP you are new here as we all were once

Good advice for you is to closely read Shaggy's post.

His accuracy rate is high, he knows his sh!t.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

stevenks said:


> She has always worked. She worked in a goverment office and now works in a manufacturing shop, doing IT work. Same field just new place with younger, dare I say less professional people.
> 
> She seems much happier working there than at the previous place. She had friends prior and still associates with them. Most are single as well.


Ahh,working with the young crowd they can tend to have that effect on older individuals who were bored with life. How old is your wife? Would you be able to go on this trip with her?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

She is being led by this group of people and is on a trajectory right out of your marriage. This is a serious issue.

In a marriage, the husband must lead the wife so that she is moving toward the marriage. I'm sure I'll get hit over the head for saying this but please filter out all the social conditioning you are looking at this problem through. You should not allow your wife to be "free" and pursue her "dreams" and be happy.... That is not a luxury that a wife and a mother in this world get to have.

At this point what I would do is tell your wife the following.

"Wife, your job and this current lifestyle is incompatible with your marriage and our family. It involves sexual behavior, illicit drugs, and you interacting with too many people who don't value marriage and family. What I want you to do is make a choice.... Quit this job and keep your marriage or keep this job and lose your marriage. I'll give you 24 hours to let me know what you decide".


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> Believe it or not, some people don't think it is. People do have different beliefs. Some people say talking to someone of the opposite sex everyday on the phone that isn't your spouse is an affair. I know people that would laugh at that and say its ridiculous. Same goes for porn, how many think it's cheating and how many think it's not? How many men or women had oral done to them by someone other than their partner and said "it was* just* oral" as to imply it wasn't a big deal. Cheating is defined differently by many people in this world.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not saying she isn't doing anything cause she could be.


Sorry but she's been married to him for years, and I'm darn sure that 99.5% of married couples already know their partners views on cheating clearly enough that they don't need to ask if it needs Penetration to become cheating.

She's negotiating the line that she can go at these parties before she starts to think she should pull back. This isn't asking if she can talk to a guy. This is asking can she grope and touch and give/get oral before it's cheating. 

She knew his basic answer already, she was testing how strongly he'd react to knowing she's been doing X Y and Z already. She wanted to know if he'd throw her out and D, or would she get away with it and just have to say sorry after she's caught.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You know that these women are cheaters. That means at these parties their husbands aren't there, it's the guys they are cheating with. These guys will also be hitting on your wife, and bringing their buddies to be her date. That's why your wife's sex drive is up. She's getting worked up by these other guys and the stories of the fun sex second life from the toxic cheating friends.


"...Birds of a feather, flock together....."


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Malaise said:


> OP you are new here as we all were once
> 
> Good advice for you is to closely read Shaggy's post.
> 
> His accuracy rate is high, he knows his sh!t.


Will do! Thank you everyone for the responses, It is all getting pretty clear to me what may be going on. I will be working on a plan to address this tonight. I guess her reaction may show more than I want to see, but I have to do something.

I guess the other part of this is should could basically go quiet about it, then I would have to do more digging to find information.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

stevenks said:


> My wife recently took a new job and has made friends at her new place of employment and she has changed. I may be looking at this all wrong but for some reason I can't stop thinking about it.
> 
> First off her new friends at work are partiers and casual marjuana smokers and heavy drinkers. A couple are single and a couple are unhappily married. She has gone to a couple of parties at their houses, which I let her go too. She now has been making plans to attend parties like she never has before.
> 
> ...


Since i am in the middle of something like this, i will give my 2 cents. Number 1, trust your gut. Something is changing in her. Number 2, when you give her any resistance to accepting her new life, she will call you controlling, jealous, and not wanting her to have friends. I have a thread on here "wife is having a mid life crises, what do i do?", but if you read in here some, you will see many stories that are similiar. 

Sounds like she is having a somewhat of a mid life deal and looking to spice up her life...maybe with or without you. I also agree it sounds like she is testing what you think is ok for her to do, or maybe has already done.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Can you have her tailed by a PI when she goes to this concert?


Bad idea, at best this could get evidence of the cheating at the concert which is going to very very bad cheating because they're going to have the full weekend to hookup and shag.

He absolutely needs to go with her, even if she goes to the concert while he hangs out at the hotel waiting for her to come back and party with him.

If he can't go, then he needs to c-block her going. 

Possible options 
1. give her a really nasty head cold/flu.
2. Expose one or more of the toxic cheating friends to their husbands and let it be known that it came from your wife. that way the group will kick her out.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Hicks said:


> You should not allow your wife to be "free" and pursue her "dreams" and be happy.... That is not a luxury that a wife and a mother in this world get to have.


:lol: Are you serious???

Pray tell. Are fathers and husbands allowed this luxury?Gawd I must know.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

stevenks said:


> Will do! Thank you everyone for the responses, It is all getting pretty clear to me what may be going on. I will be working on a plan to address this tonight. I guess her reaction may show more than I want to see, but I have to do something.
> 
> I guess the other part of this is should could basically go quiet about it, then I would have to do more digging to find information.


Do not confront too soon and NEVER reveal your sources. Otherwise you'll get told you're controlling and paranoid and insecure, AND when you reveal your sources she'll just avoid them in the future.


You absolutely got to be involved in these parties big time. Get a sitter so you can go, but go!


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Bad idea, at best this could get evidence of the cheating at the concert which is going to very very bad cheating because they're going to have the full weekend to hookup and shag.
> 
> He absolutely needs to go with her, even if she goes to the concert while he hangs out at the hotel waiting for her to come back and party with him.
> 
> ...


I agree, c0ckblock her at the concert. But keep collecting evidence in the background. Don't expose her friends before you have enough evidence of your wife's possible misdeeds. Because as soon as they throw her out of the group she's going to do the sensible thing of deleting every single message and email and wiping the evidence.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Do Not Confront Her Yet!

Do Not Let HEr go To Any More Parties or the Concert Without you!

Gather evidence! Cell records, VAR and keylogger!

IF she is cheating, she will not admit to anything without hard evidence put in front of her!

Read up in the infidelity section NOW!


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

stevenks said:


> I didn't know this information about these coworkers until after she attended one of the parties, and *the other one she went to I was with her and we stayed for about 10 minutes* so she could make an appearance.


Why doesn't that surprise me. The one you attend with her, she doesn't stay. Hmmm....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

stevenks said:


> Will do! Thank you everyone for the responses, It is all getting pretty clear to me what may be going on. I will be working on a plan to address this tonight. I guess her reaction may show more than I want to see, but I have to do something.
> 
> I guess the other part of this is should could basically go quiet about it, then I would have to do more digging to find information.


Good address tonight either you go with her to the concert or she does not go. Tell her you cannot control her BUT you can control what you as a husband are going to put up with from her. Just be firm no emotion but to the point!


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## DedicatedDad (Nov 11, 2012)

Here we go again...
Same Movie, Same Script, Different Characters...

Sorry to find you here under these circumstances steven...
You definitely have some issues at home.

Listen brother, do yourself a favor...
Go back and read Shaggy's Post, memorize it, chant it, recite it backwards, 
print it out and tape it on your bathroom wall, whatever he tells you to do... do it!


Good Luck!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Do everything Shaggy says "on steroids". Especially these:

* You need to go to everyone of these parties.
* You MUST go to that concert weekend.
* You need to get a VAR put into her car, to hear what she is saying to people in there and on the phone.

*On top of that, ask her to quit her job. Immediately, if not sooner.*


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

stevenks said:


> I will be working on a plan to address this tonight. I guess her reaction may show more than I want to see, but I have to do something.


I've got a bad feeling about this. He was a newb just this morning, and now he's going to go up against what will be a cornered, busted cheater. He has NEVER EXPERIENCED how quickly one of those can change direction. Blame is off of her and he is accepting that he is probably controlling, AND his cover blown while pushing it further underground. All before she even stops for a breath.

He's not ready. He needs to take a deep breath, read this site nonstop for a day or two. And have a SCRIPT ready. He needs to be ready for when it goes OFF script (like as soon as he opens his mouth). 

I fear for him. He gets one shot to play his cards. It's too soon.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

stevenks said:


> She has always worked. She worked in a goverment office and now works in a manufacturing shop, doing IT work. Same field just new place with younger, dare I say less professional people.
> 
> *She seems much happier working there than at the previous place. *She had friends prior and still associates with them. Most are single as well.


I think I know why it's a happier place to work...


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

MrK said:


> Why doesn't that surprise me. The one you attend with her, she doesn't stay. Hmmm....


Excellent point. I wonder if OP sees the point as well.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Stevenks, 

How did your gaslighting session with the wife go, tonight? Did she lay to rest all your groundless fears?


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

stevenks said:


> She has been asking me stuff like... What would you call cheating? Kissing? Penetration, etc?" To me it almost seems like she is checking my boundaries.


I would've said cheating is when a wife looks her husband straight in the eyes and asks him what he thinks cheating is.

Then I would've asked her what she thinks being single is, and if she wanted me to give her an example.

T


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

stevenks said:


> Is she having an affair?
> 
> 
> I don't know as of yet. I don't see any idication of it. This sudden change of behavior and all these questions and scenerios she ask about just has me questioning why.
> ...


Have not read the rest of this but NFW would I be ok with this out of town trip with these toxic friends.

Now work friends colleagues that have this life style is a common thing. However, her starting to get into a party life style like this is a big change in her boundaries.

Best to get a handle on this sooner than later. Her boundaries seem to be shifting. But where are yours? Why are you ok with all of this?

I suggest you guys do His Needs Her Needs together. Set some boundaries.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mach and Tony I was afraid he would have a case of PTSD maybe in the morning I hope. It's a shock at first it's what you do after thatand Entropy


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

stevenks said:


> My reponse was basically "I feel anything intimate such as kissing, groping, etc. would be cheating." She metioned something like she thinks any "Penatration" would be cheating. I asked what she would use to define penatration and she said "The obvious, and deep kissing"


Cheating is not where the boundary should be. It is for sure unfaithfulness. Cheating is just the result.

Inappropriate Behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating.

So forget penetration. Forget cheating. Target inappropriate behavior. Like going to these parties with toxic friends. This stuff can quickly turn into unfaithfulness. Which is lying and by definition not being faithful. Like sexting, confiding in other men, exchanging pictures and so on. Binding with other men. This is infidelity. Miles way from penetration.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

stevenks said:


> Will do! Thank you everyone for the responses, It is all getting pretty clear to me what may be going on. I will be working on a plan to address this tonight. I guess her reaction may show more than I want to see, but I have to do something.
> 
> I guess the other part of this is should could basically go quiet about it, then I would have to do more digging to find information.


I too believe she will end up having to quit ... however there will probably be considerable damage if there is not already before that happens.

As for the trip. You go with her or no trip. No trip is better as these are not the type of friends she shpuld be hanging out with.

You should be invited to these parties. If she goes, you should go too.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I too believe she will end up having to quit ... however there will probably be considerable damage if there is not already before that happens.
> 
> As for the trip. You go with her or no trip. No trip is better as these are not the type of friends she shpuld be hanging out with.
> 
> *You should be invited to these parties. If she goes, you should go too*.


E

You and I know that he is really not wanted at these parties. His presence changes the whole dynamic. Things that would happen normally would not happen if he was there.

I suspect that she was active at the party when she went solo based on her questions to OP.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

She is cheating and likely considering leaving... Do something fast if you want to save your marriage!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I too believe she will end up having to quit ... however there will probably be considerable damage if there is not already before that happens.
> 
> As for the trip. You go with her or no trip. No trip is better as these are not the type of friends she shpuld be hanging out with.
> 
> You should be invited to these parties. If she goes, you should go too.


He has to go on the trip or change the locks I love the mlc excuse!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here is a good website henrymakow.com - Exposing Feminism and The New World Order


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Malaise said:


> E
> 
> You and I know that he is really not wanted at these parties. His presence changes the whole dynamic. Things that would happen normally would not happen if he was there.
> 
> I suspect that she was active at the party when she went solo based on her questions to OP.


Yeah. But I am trying to help him set a boundary condition. Which is if she goes ... he goes. She will not go for that. So that is how that works. IF she takes the chance he will pick up the vibe soon enough. He gets to see these people in their element first hand. From that he is in better position to take a stand. It is about leverage. Leverage for him to be able to make his stand. 

But if he lurks at this party someone will spill the beans in some way. 

He should go. But the odds are she will not want him to go. Her freinds will not want him to be their. That is goodness. Makes his position all the stronger. 

So taking this further. He has set this boundary. IF she lies to him and goes to a party without him, BINGO she is being unfaithful. There is no gray area with this. He just needs to be very clear what he will accept and what he will not. She is asking. he should tell in very clear language that cannot be misunderstood. No wiggle room.

But he should not be ok with her going to these parties and especially not ok with the trip by herself. 

Her first attempt at getting around the boundary will be to declare that the get together was work related.

He does need to get someway to track her communications. her friends already are exchanging photos and so on .... BTW that is cheating.


He may already be a winner.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yeah. But I am trying to help him set a boundary condition. Which is if she goes ... he goes. She will not go for that. So that is how that works. IF she takes the chance he will pick up the vibe soon enough. He gets to see these people in their element first hand. From that he is in better position to take a stand. It is about leverage. Leverage for him to be able to make his stand.
> 
> But if he lurks at this party someone will spill the beans in some way.
> 
> ...


:iagree:nip it now!


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

It always begins like this. Listen to others here who have been there and set up the boundaries ASAP. Tigers mark their territories for a reason. It is for you to decide whether you are a tiger.

All the best and I hope you get a positive outcome.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

stevenks said:


> My wife recently took a new job and has made friends at her new place of employment and she has changed. I may be looking at this all wrong but for some reason I can't stop thinking about it.
> 
> First off her new friends at work are partiers and casual marjuana smokers and heavy drinkers. A couple are single and a couple are unhappily married. She has gone to a couple of parties at their houses, which I let her go too. She now has been making plans to attend parties like she never has before.
> 
> ...


Funny how she thinks now is the time to talk about boundaries...
Didn't you talk about boundaries before you married? 
Isn't it too late for these elementary information that you must have known about each other prior to marriage? 

If she already knew and you made it clear for what your boundaries are she wouldn't dare to ask.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

The best solution would be to go there without being noticed. 
If she knows you're there she won't do what she's been already planning and you won't be able to catch her red handed.
You need to be there without her knowledge and monitor her in the background.

This way you see the real nature of these friendships/friends AND how she is for real around these toxic friends.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you need to decide if you want to give her enough rope to hang her self or if you want to prevent her from going farther.

if its the first just keep quiet and start snooping with keyloggers/var's/and any other evidence gathering you can covertly do.

if its the latter then you need to nip it in the bud and confront her and establish some boundries .....then you nedd to enforce theses boundries at all cost. some marriage counceling would also be helpfull.

me personaly thinks is would be crazy to do the nip it in the bud because I don't want to be with someone of such poor charachter that would even consider stepping out on my marriage. espicially if they never came to me indicating that they were unhappy with the marriage and tried to work on it together.

by what you told us so far i think its very likley that she already gave someone a blow job in the very least.


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Well I did it last night! I put it all on paper and had her read it while I watched her reactions and body language. I'm prety good at reading body language and reactions. She wasnt defensive at all.

She completely understood where I was coming from and how it looked from my end. She swears nothing has happened and she wouldnt do anything to screw the relationship up. She agreed and said she has been trying to figure out a way to get out of the out of town trip and concert ever since she agreed to go. She isn't going now! She agrees that the people at work are not the kind of people she associates with and had concerns and even discussed them with her boss. She has a need for being liked by people, which I understand. I told here she can have friends at work, but that it shouldnt extend afterwork. 

I am still going to keep an eye on things and keep her a little closer. I did get home before her and checked her old cell phone, and computer. (She switched phones two days ago and it wasnt wiped clean) Mu guard is not down yet, for sure.

I do feel she was being honest in her response's. 

Thanks to everyone for the responses, it really helped me confront this and put my foot down.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

stevenks said:


> Well I did it last night! I put it all on paper and had her read it while I watched her reactions and body language. I'm prety good at reading body language and reactions. She wasnt defensive at all.
> 
> She completely understood where I was coming from and how it looked from my end. She swears nothing has happened and she wouldnt do anything to screw the relationship up. She agreed and said she has been trying to figure out a way to get out of the out of town trip and concert ever since she agreed to go. She isn't going now! She agrees that the people at work are not the kind of people she associates with and had concerns and even discussed them with her boss. She has a need for being liked by people, which I understand. I told here she can have friends at work, but that it shouldnt extend afterwork.
> 
> ...


Don't want to throw cold water on this but...

Did that seem a bit too easy?


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Malaise said:


> Don't want to throw cold water on this but...
> 
> Did that seem a bit too easy?


As I said, My guard isn't down at all. 

We talked about it for a couple hours, and I felt much better about it all. She isnt going to be around these people in social gatherings anymore, and not going to the concert. time will tell I guess. She now knows where I stand on issues and what line to not cross.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

"trust but verify".

IMHO...she is at least thinking/looking/considering the possibilities. My STBXW went through all this for about two years before she cracked and checked out. During those two years it was a back and forth, I get mad, she backed off (or further hid her activities). 
I think you may have an opportunity to work on this, but again, IMHO, and more knowledgable people can chime in, you need to get MC now, and find out what is going on. I waited, tried to fix it myself, hoped it would just go away, figured she was right and i was wrong.....we will be divorced in a month.


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## DedicatedDad (Nov 11, 2012)

stevenks said:


> As I said, My guard isn't down at all.
> 
> We talked about it for a couple hours, and I felt much better about it all. She isnt going to be around these people in social gatherings anymore, and not going to the concert. time will tell I guess. She now knows where I stand on issues and what line to not cross.


This is good news my friend, sounds like you put a stop to some very destructive behavior, and that could have been very bad for your marriage. Glad you're keeping you're guard up too, trust but verify.

Good Luck :smthumbup:


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I really hope it was a situation where she was hoping you'd tell her she couldn't hang around these potheads anymore...but I don't know man. 

Your gut is a powerful thing...and if it was in knots it was for a reason.

Always trust your gut. Best BS detector ever made.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I really hope it was a situation where she was hoping you'd tell her she couldn't hang around these potheads anymore...but I don't know man.
> 
> Your gut is a powerful thing...and if it was in knots it was for a reason.
> 
> Always trust your gut. Best BS detector ever made.


Which is why THEY tell you that its YOU that has the problem...so it discounts your best detector.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Funny thing about stuff like this is that when a husband is present the fun of these parties go down as a rock. Which totally contradicts the often said "nothing happens and i'm not looking to cheat".

If you can't have fun with your husband around then why are you married?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

yeah, and your looking for fun when your husband is NOT around. Then it leads to "he doenst understand me" and " he is so controlling and jealous" etc.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

stevenks said:


> Well I did it last night! I put it all on paper and had her read it while I watched her reactions and body language. I'm prety good at reading body language and reactions. She wasnt defensive at all.
> 
> She completely understood where I was coming from and how it looked from my end. She swears nothing has happened and she wouldnt do anything to screw the relationship up. She agreed and said she has been trying to figure out a way to get out of the out of town trip and concert ever since she agreed to go. She isn't going now! She agrees that the people at work are not the kind of people she associates with and had concerns and even discussed them with her boss. She has a need for being liked by people, which I understand. I told here she can have friends at work, but that it shouldnt extend afterwork.
> 
> ...


You might want to now put your “leadership hat” on.

This is a good time to get your thoughts and your wife’s thoughts into the future. What dreams do you both aspire to for example. If you are saving money, what are you saving it for? Where do you both see yourselves in 5, 10 and 20 years time. What’s the health and happiness of your marriage like on a day to day basis?

Attend something like Find out more | Relationship Central. This is a deeply bonding type thing to do and you will both learn things that will be better for the two of you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well like Ronny and DD said trust but verify. If she finds the job uncomfortable telk her to quit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

She's still around these people daily. You need to monitor.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

I think everyone is giving advice as though his wife is some recalcitrant child that merely needs a "time out" :scratchhead:

She is his wife - a grown adult woman ...fully aware of what is and what isn't cheating. She wants to cheat, is testing his threshold of pain to see what she can get away with ...and likely will continue to cheat in the future, regardless of how this recent situation turns out. He can't shield her from potential cheating friends and coworkers for the rest of her life, worrying that she might be cheating every time she goes out of the house.

My advice to OP: Confront her, telling her that he is aware of where her head is at regarding this marriage. See what she says, but be fully prepared to initiate divorce proceedings against her.

She is most likely cheating, and the situation is very, very serious.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Disclaimer: I have never cheated, I have no true indication that my husband has ever cheated. So i haven't experienced infidelity (in my 15 year marriage) like many on these boards.

Here is my .02:
I have always had issues with trust. For my own mental health, I cannot become preoccupied with what my husband is doing or not doing. If i sense a lack of connection or intimacy, I must discuss it with him, and my compass is his reaction. If he is transparent, that is all I need. If he is defensive, then we have a problem. I don't need "proof"; my feelings are enough. Like someone wrote, i believe in trusting your gut. At the same time, if i am satisfied, i need to drop it. I can't go digging and look for things that may not be there. I think to a point, we all hide some things from our spouses. I can't possible know what he is doing at all times, or what he is thinking. Some of my thoughts no doubt would not settle well with him. But that is all they are. I also give the example of my involvement in this forum. He doesn't know about it, and i do purposefully attempt to keep it from him. Not because i feel i am doing something wrong, but because this is my private time, where i get to explore my feelings without having to censor myself because i'm worried about his reaction. I've said some things here about his sexual performance that would hurt his feelings. But if he were to "catch" me and needed me to "come clean" in order to calm his doubts, I would be transparent, and then deal with the **** storm that would follow. So not all secret behavior is cheating. Some of it is just private, some of it is just fantasy. 

Again, my suspicions have never been strong enough to warrant any PI type of thing, but I can't see myself going there. I don't judge or frown upon it either. If I was in the OP's shoes, I would have taken his approach. I don't think there is enough to say she cheated or didn't. Just like his gut told him he wasn't comfortable with the situation, that same gut told him he is comfortable with her response. And one thing that stuck to me was that her drive went up, which to me shows that whatever may have been in her head, she turned to her husband for intimacy. 

Please note, that i totally agree that she was headed down a dangerous road, and i would not have been comfortable if i was in OP's shoes. I just don't agree with the posts that definitely say she was cheating and that he should not trust in her response. And i won't even touch the post about allowing wives to have freedom . . . yeah not going there, i want to, but i will control the urge.

OP, I for one am glad for you. I don't get the impression that you are being played. Of course i can comprehend that you cannot totally let your guard down, but i think you should continue to trust your gut, which is now telling you that your wife is being truthful.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I wouldn't think that everything is okay now, OP. She'll tell her coworkers that she decided not to go. The conversation may go something like this:

Wife: "I've decided not to go."

Coworker: "Why not?"

W: "Well, I decided to spend the weekend with my family."

CW: "Oh, really. So your husband is FORBIDDING you to go?"

W: "He didn't FORBID me..."

CW: "But he doesn't like the idea of you going?"

W: "Well, no. But that's not the point..."

CW: (Raises eyebrows) "Oh, I see."

W: "What do you mean by that?"

CW: "Well, no offense, but isn't that CONTROLLING? Does he always try to ISOLATE you from your friends?"

W: "He's a wonderful man. He isn't ABUSIVE!"

CW: "You said ABUSIVE, honey...not me. It's just that he seems to demand that you obey him, and you miss out on your fun. I've seen it too many times, honey. You think he's a great guy, but he really wants you to stay in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Classic red flags of an ABUSIVE man. Think about it."

Then she leaves your W to herself to ponder these thoughts.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Steven

Good job making your boundaries clear with your wife.

Might I suggest you plan a family outing with your wife and kids soon. Maybe on that same weekend away.

I am sure she will get the hint that after work the focus for both of you is on the family/your children not the parties with toxic friends.

Keep an eye on her.

And keep her focused. The key is communication.

HM64


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Steven
> 
> Good job making your boundaries clear with your wife.
> 
> ...


Already in the works, I'm flying us out of town this weekend, and oh my! another week long trip in the time frame that the concert (Trip with coworkers) is scheduled.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> I think everyone is giving advice as though his wife is some recalcitrant child that merely needs a "time out" :scratchhead:
> 
> She is his wife - a grown adult woman ...fully aware of what is and what isn't cheating. She wants to cheat, is testing his threshold of pain to see what she can get away with ...and likely will continue to cheat in the future, regardless of how this recent situation turns out. He can't shield her from potential cheating friends and coworkers for the rest of her life, worrying that she might be cheating every time she goes out of the house.
> 
> ...


He doesnt have enough to say its serious. I agree she is headed in that direction it would appear, or is testing the waters and his reactions. Like a few have said, dont think this is over by a long shot...I think its just the beginning.


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## DedicatedDad (Nov 11, 2012)

costa200 said:


> *"If you can't have fun with your husband around then why are you married?"*


costa200, Man you are killing me with these great one liners!
Some of your quotes feel like getting a big bucket of ice dumped on your head while you're sleeping!

You rock dude! :smthumbup:


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

F-102 said:


> I wouldn't think that everything is okay now, OP. She'll tell her coworkers that she decided not to go. The conversation may go something like this:
> 
> Wife: "I've decided not to go."
> 
> ...


This assumes that his W is an individual that is not strong enough in her convictions or thoughts. She can't control what her coworkers say, think or do. She can control how much or little they are going to impact her own thoughts and actions. In my opinion if her connection to her husband is strong, then what he thinks is what will be salient for her. The only thing that OP can control is doing his part to maintain that connection and setting clear boundaries (which in my estimation he has). If she falters, the blame is hers alone.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

stevenks said:


> We talked about it for a couple hours, and I felt much better about it all. She isnt going to be around these people in social gatherings anymore, and not going to the concert. time will tell I guess. She now knows where I stand on issues and what line to not cross.


Steve, you did good, you stopped something that would have almost certainly resulted in some kind of indiscretion. Don't let your guard down, these people will still try to suck her in, directly or indirectly, they just want everyone in the group to take a bite of the same apple they did, the more the merrier.

Also be aware that, unless your wife has the discipline of a Buddhist monk, the constant exposure to her colleagues' indiscretions, gossip, cajoling, etc, will have a corrosive affect on her; it will begin to diminish her values and alter the way she views the world and she won't even be aware it's happening. She'll continue to share gossip about them to you and her non-work-related friends and maybe even express how terrible these people are, but deep down she'll be intrigued and curious, the things her colleagues talk about is secretly exciting to her, she'll start living vicariously through them, listening to their stories and conveying them back to you and her friends, which will reinforce the behavior in her mind, and that, my friend, will lead to temptation. And then one day... she bites the apple, innocently, but then... it's too late.

*Stay vigilant!*

T


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Steve, you did good, you stopped something that would have almost certainly resulted in some kind of indiscretion. Don't let your guard down, these people will still try to suck her in, directly or indirectly, they just want everyone in the group to take a bite of the same apple they did, the more the merrier.
> 
> *Also be aware that, unless your wife has the discipline of a Buddhist monk, the constant exposure to her colleagues' indiscretions, gossip, cajoling, etc, will have a corrosive affect on her; it will begin to diminish her values and alter the way she views the world and she won't even be aware it's happening.* She'll continue to share gossip about them to you and her non-work-related friends and maybe even express how terrible these people are, but deep down she'll be intrigued and curious, the things her colleagues talk about is secretly exciting to her, she'll start living vicariously through them, listening to their stories and conveying them back to you and her friends, which will reinforce the behavior in her mind, and that, my friend, will lead to temptation. And then one day... she bites the apple, innocently, but then... it's too late.
> 
> ...


“Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust.” ― Sun Tzu


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> “Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust.” ― Sun Tzu


"May you live in interesting times" another one I believe Entropy. I think Steve has done all he could if she is going to cheat she will she has to know that he will move on without her I would hope with that reality in the back of her mind she stays focused but more important if the coworkers are this amoral quit the [email protected] job I mean some decisions are not that hard.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Steve, you did good, you stopped something that would have almost certainly resulted in some kind of indiscretion. Don't let your guard down, these people will still try to suck her in, directly or indirectly, they just want everyone in the group to take a bite of the same apple they did, the more the merrier.
> 
> Also be aware that, unless your wife has the discipline of a Buddhist monk, the constant exposure to her colleagues' indiscretions, gossip, cajoling, etc, will have a corrosive affect on her; it will begin to diminish her values and alter the way she views the world and she won't even be aware it's happening. She'll continue to share gossip about them to you and her non-work-related friends and maybe even express how terrible these people are, but deep down she'll be intrigued and curious, the things her colleagues talk about is secretly exciting to her, she'll start living vicariously through them, listening to their stories and conveying them back to you and her friends, which will reinforce the behavior in her mind, and that, my friend, will lead to temptation. And then one day... she bites the apple, innocently, but then... it's too late.
> 
> ...


Question: Do you believe this to be true of all individuals? Men or women? Or just the OP's wife?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

It's good that you're planning your own trip with her at the same time of the company trip. She can _say_ that she won't go to the concert, but when push comes to shove, she can change her mind at the last minute. 

I agree that you should stay vigilant.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Its not the difficulty of the decision...all has to do with her mind and heart. There are a slew of "not so hard" decisions that have been made by WS on this site, and many went the way the BS would not have preferred.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tom67 said:


> "May you live in interesting times" another one I believe Entropy. I think Steve has done all he could if she is going to cheat she will she has to know that he will move on without her I would hope with that reality in the back of her mind she stays focused but more important if the coworkers are this amoral quit the [email protected] job I mean some decisions are not that hard.


I think he has done exactly what he needed to do. I agree with the trust but verify. 

Ultimately there are going to be challenges because of these folks. He may have just passed his fitness test though.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Ina said:


> Question: Do you believe this to be true of all individuals? Men or women? Or just the OP's wife?


I believe this to be true of all human beings, (even Buddhist monks, given enough exposure.)

T


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> I believe this to be true of all human beings, (even Buddhist monks, given enough exposure.)
> 
> T


Exactly. This is why I harp on people not putting themselves at risk in inappropriate situations. Just saying trust me I do not intend to cheat or be unfaithful is naive and in many cases disengenuous.
You lay down with dogs and you get fleas sort of thing.

It also puts undue pressure on a marriage needlessly. No matter what a spouse may actually do if they hang around people who are less than freindly to the m,arriage it causes great angst. It also puts into question the character of the person who says "trsut me". Frankly she should be completely turned off being around these folks.

Bounaries will slide and blur.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Steve, this time you were lucky for she decided not to go. 
But do you know her true intentions behind this decision??
...maybe she wanted to please you this time but next time she'll have the courage to say "You can't stop me for all my life!! Last time I didn't go because of YOU, but this time I'll do something for me so I'll go whether you like it or not!" 
So, she might try and make you feel guilty. Just make sure not to fall into that trap.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

DedicatedDad said:


> costa200, Man you are killing me with these great one liners!
> Some of your quotes feel like getting a big bucket of ice dumped on your head while you're sleeping!
> 
> You rock dude! :smthumbup:


Meh! I watched some Dr. Phil shows a while back and maybe some of his one line "crowd cheers" stuff may have rubbed on me


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## stevenks (Dec 12, 2012)

Just got back from lunch with her, and she proceeded to tell me that her other friends (Whom I trust) that are not involved with these people were basically giving her the same advise regarding not associating with these people, so she has been on the fence for over a week about how to make an exit without causing any damage at work. I told her you can get a different job if push came to shove.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

stevenks said:


> Just got back from lunch with her, and she proceeded to tell me that her other friends (Whom I trust) that are not involved with these people were basically giving her the same advise regarding not associating with these people, so she has been on the fence for over a week about how to make an exit without causing any damage at work. I told her you can get a different job if push came to shove.


Excellent.

I never let the folks where I work dictate my boundaries. I bever worry about just telling them no. I even say that this or that does not fit into my marriage. They have to accept it. I choose my boundaries. I do not say my wife will not let me or does not want me to. The truth is it is my choice to not do these things. 

I am just saying she can just be a big girl and say no thank you. This is not my life style. I am happily married and choose to not attend these parties or go on these trips. Who cares what they think?

And yeah she is probably best off to find another place to work.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

stevenks said:


> Just got back from lunch with her, and she proceeded to tell me that her other friends (Whom I trust) that are not involved with these people were basically giving her the same advise regarding not associating with these people, so she has been on the fence for over a week about how to make an exit without causing any damage at work. I told her you can get a different job if push came to shove.


Great news!:smthumbup:


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Good for you.. and good that your sex life picked up. Keep in mind that you have to keep your wife interested in YOU. Don't let your marriage ever get to the point of taking each other for granted.. that is when things like this start trickling in.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

The wife was intrigued, fascinated and probably sexually charged by the new work friends' behavior. It put those thoughts in her head, making her think "what if?" She probably received little shots of dopamine witnessing all of this. 

I don't believe she's cheating but is probably behaving flirty and dipping her toes in the water. She doesn't want to cheat but she's intrigued enough to ask Stevenks some questions. Probably what's known as a fitness test. 

It would've been bad news if Stevenks had reacted weakly. By firmly, confidently telling her "no way," and that there would be consequences if she overstepped boundaries, she snapped back to the role of faithful wife. She's more attracted to a husband who doesn't put up with any kind of wayward behavior. 

I had a something somewhat similar with my wife and I was amazed how she reacted positively to me being strong and displaying a "I'm-not-putting-up-with-crap" attitude. Earlier when I was weaker and naive, she pushed the envelope and seemed somewhat repelled by me. That's the natural wiring of females.

Keep an eye on her and make sure you have firm boundaries. I think you two will be fine.


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## DedicatedDad (Nov 11, 2012)

stevenks said:


> Just got back from lunch with her, and she proceeded to tell me that her other friends (Whom I trust) that are not involved with these people were basically giving her the same advise regarding not associating with these people, so she has been on the fence for over a week about how to make an exit without causing any damage at work. I told her you can get a different job if push came to shove.


If any of these toxic friends have a problem with her decision not to go out with them, and they try to make her feel guilty about missing out on all their toxic fun, then that should tell her right there that they don't respect her enough as a person to live her own life. 

All she has to do is tell them she is setting aside time to spend with her family. She could say she's busy or a simple polite no thanks should do. She really shouldn't be all that worried about what they will say or how they react, they don't pay her rent, she doesn't owe them anything. All she has to do is show up and be polite and professional.

She needs to understand that these people are poisonous, and the only purpose they serve is to break up her family, and once that's done, they'll crawl back under their rocks and wait for the next victim.

She should really speak up for herself and let them know she's not comfortable with the way they act after work. There are over 7 billion people on this planet, she can make other friends. It pisses me off that she has to be concerned about what these homewreckers may think or say. Who cares what they think? She's there to do a job, not win friends and influence people!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She should tell the new friends they are being controlling if they won't accept a polite no. The other rule you should have is that going to parties and drinking always includes her husband, not for control but because you want your best bud with you at such times.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Steven - did you mention to her anything about the sex being ramped up lately? She likely isn't consciously being more sexual, but obviously, something has changed that has caused her to. I think if you mention it, you will then have the opportunity to discuss it, be more (and completely) open about it. You can talk about ways you can both be turned on more and be more sexual. My point is, take advantage of the "good" part of this transaction, and help her (and yourself) understand more about how sexuality works in our minds and bodies.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cubby said:


> The wife was intrigued, fascinated and probably sexually charged by the new work friends' behavior. It put those thoughts in her head, making her think "what if?" * She probably received little shots of dopamine witnessing all of this. *
> 
> I don't believe she's cheating but *is probably behaving flirty and dipping her toes in the water.* She doesn't want to cheat but *she's intrigued enough to ask Stevenks some questions. Probably what's known as a fitness test*....snip...
> Keep an eye on her and make sure you have firm boundaries. I think you two will be fine.


Steve, this was an excellent post by Cubby. You've also gotten lots of other insightful posts from Tony, Entropy, and everybody else. Cubby is right that your wife is getting a charge of sex chemistry in her brain from being around her co-workers at the sex club and listening to their wild sex stories. That's why you were posting this:



stevenks said:


> All of the sudden she has this sexual drive that I have never seen before. She wants it every day and a couples times a day if she can squeeze it in. She wants to try new things as well.


You need to educate yourself and step up your game. You want to try to make yourself the center of her orgasmic thoughts and not her visualizations of the sordid exploits of her sex partying friends. Your wife is very likely going to want more hits on the dopamine crack pipe before too long. So, you need to educate yourself on sex brain chemistry. You'll see lots of mention of "love" in those articles, but raw sex is more like it. If your wife is in the 28-38 range her sex drive is usually going to be at its peak, she's got testosterone like never before. Her body agenda is to reproduce one more time, preferably with a new, back-up source of DNA. Be aware.

All of that means you need to get the real facts about women and how to maintain attraction through the "straying years". I highly recommend you read this book and the author's blog Married Man Sex Life Primer. The Sex Life part in the title is how to keep her sex life at home and not at work and work related house parties.

In addition to that, I would highly recommend that you start serious physique training and generally upping your sex rank. Do women ever hit on you? Find out where you are on the Male Hierarchy and make appropriate adjustments as needed.

Here's another primarily STR "pick up" blog, but he also gets into LTR issues occasionally. Even so, it's a goldmine for gaining understanding of female behaviors you already have seen many times in your life, but probably never made sense of in a systematic cosmology.

Play it all very cool. Don't be clingy like you're trying to woo her away from her attraction to the free sex lifestyle. Be aloof yet dominant. You showed dominance by calling her on the carpet over her intent to contribute to her own delinquency. That wins you big points with her. Keep it up.

Lastly, monitor. Don't let on you're doing it and don't let her find out. Even though it's been talked out, put a monitoring program in place. Check her phone from time to time against the phone bill, _absolutely_ put the VAR under her car seat bottom with heavy velcro, and keylog her. These people have lit a fire under your wife to where she wants sex multiple times a day. Remember, that's something she never did before with you, so you didn't have the raw sexual element she's found with these people. She may go underground to get the buzz again. It's not popular to say it, but good girls do go bad. 

Monitor, but don't get caught, no matter what. _Do not get caught._ And read all those links extensively. Especially MMSL. Don't let your wife know what you're doing or what you're reading and don't discuss with her any changes you decide to make. Just start making the changes and she'll keep her panties soaked for you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

stevenks said:


> Just got back from lunch with her, and she proceeded to tell me that her other friends (Whom I trust) that are not involved with these people were basically giving her the same advise regarding not associating with these people, so she has been on the fence for over a week about how to make an exit without causing any damage at work. I told her you can get a different job if push came to shove.


Tell her to start bragging about what a wonderfull husband you are and how happy she is being married. The "friends" will back off and won't deal with her anymore and your chick won't have to do a thing....the so called friends will.

Especially if she continues to get invited to parties and brings you every time, "they" will stop inviting her.

If your wifes plays her cards right she won't have to break up with her "friends" her friends will break up with her and stop asking her out.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The guy, good point. These friends won't want their style cramped oor under judgment. I think they are grooming her to join the swinging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thor said:


> The guy, good point. These friends won't want their style cramped oor under judgment. I think they are grooming her to join the swinging.
> [


Yes, they are. No question about it. They've always got to proselytize and bring in new poon.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

> It would've been bad news if Stevenks had reacted weakly. By firmly, confidently telling her "no way," and that there would be consequences if she overstepped boundaries, she snapped back to the role of faithful wife. She's more attracted to a husband who doesn't put up with any kind of wayward behavior.
> 
> I had a something somewhat similar with my wife and I was amazed how she reacted positively to me being strong and displaying a "I'm-not-putting-up-with-crap" attitude. Earlier when I was weaker and naive, she pushed the envelope and seemed somewhat repelled by me. That's the natural wiring of females.


This is so true.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Thor said:


> The guy, good point. These friends won't want their style cramped oor under judgment. I think they are grooming her to join the swinging.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What stevenks needs to be Mindful of is that as much as he is trying to keep his wife out of the group, the group are trying to pull her in. While he is countering their moves, they are countering his.


He is in a war for his wife. He’s seemingly won a battle after a few losses but the war continues and it will always be on while his wife works with them, while they are in her life.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

AFEH said:


> What stevenks needs to be Mindful of is that as much as he is trying to keep his wife out of the group, the group are trying to pull her in. While he is countering their moves, they are countering his.
> 
> 
> He is in a war for his wife. He’s seemingly won a battle after a few losses but the war continues and it will always be on while his wife works with them, while they are in her life.


While they work together they will always be an influence on her. They will describe the parties and the fun they have and she will want it too, just as OP said in his first post. It was a big temptation then, how will Op make sure she doesn't give in again.

Also, how can he be sure she told him the truth about her activities.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Malaise said:


> While they work together they will always be an influence on her. They will describe the parties and the fun they have and she will want it too, just as OP said in his first post. It was a big temptation then, how will Op make sure she doesn't give in again.
> 
> Also, how can he be sure she told him the truth about her activities.


It all comes down to personal choice. We make our choices based on our individual and very unique “Value System”. If for example she values new sexual experiences with other men more than she values her husband and her marriage, then she will cheat. QED.


This is why I encouraged the OP to get his wife's mind out of the group and into something else. He has to find a way of getting some bigger attraction than that crowd, something she can be as/more passionate about.

That's why I think he must Lead The Way out of this by planning with her their future dreams and aspirations as a married couple and working on them as a team to make their dreams realities.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> That's why I think he must Lead The Way out of this by *planning with her their future dreams and aspirations as a married couple* and working on them as a team to make their dreams realities.


I'm sure this approach works with some women, but probably not with most. That's male brain thinking, to my lights.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> I'm sure this approach works with some women, but probably not with most. That's male brain thinking, to my lights.


I think for a lot of women their thoughts are in the present and past, whereas a lot of men tend be in the present and future.

But surely if he cannot find common dreams and plans that motivate and inspire them as a couple, as a team then he will discover just how widely different their most fundamental, core value systems are.

And what is a couple without common dreams and aspirations that they’re working towards achieving. Surely they’ll just be wonderers through life.

He may find for example that his wife is indeed a party animal who plays and wants to play but is keeping him onside for what he provides to the marriage. She may well turn out to be a cake eater and that they are two totally different people with different values and different beliefs about life.

The biggest sign of that is her “fantastic” (unbelievable, incredible, implausible, improbable, unlikely) questions about what constitutes cheating. If there’s one thing females know about, it’s cheating in all its forms. She’s either incredibly naïve and the only woman on the planet who doesn’t know what cheating is or playing him for a fool.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I'm sure this approach works with some women, but probably not with most. That's male brain thinking, to my lights.


All I can say is that I am a woman, and fully recognize that i do not speak for all women . . . but here is my perspective.

I can relate to a woman making "sudden" changes. Men go through "sudden" changes as well. What triggers it, who knows, but it is not always some desire to cheat or stray. I would agree that when changes occur, individuals may toy with ideas or actions that can lead to "dangerous" behavior. That being said, I believe that whether someone take a bite from the apple can be influenced by many factors, including how a spouse responds. 

I would have some strong negative reactions if my spouse begins accusing me of things, withdraws, questions my every action, or begins "spying on me". I would appreciate my spouse expressing discomfort and setting reasonable boundaries in order to find a sense of security. I do not consider telling me to quit my job reasonable. I would respond very well to my spouse taking control of his insecurity and instead redirecting his feelings and actions into things that i find attractive. (confidence, demonstrating love & affection, etc.) In other words, if my husband was starting to "change", I would join him in his journey and do my part to ensure that whatever changes he needs I am part of. 

I wonder how much attention the OP was giving his wife prior to this change v. what he is doing now . . . perhaps that was her motivation all along.


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## btdt (Nov 19, 2012)

AFEH said:


> The biggest sign of that is her “fantastic” (unbelievable, incredible, implausible, improbable, unlikely) questions about what constitutes cheating. I there’s one thing females know about, it’s cheating in all its forms. She’s either incredibly naïve and the only woman on the planet who doesn’t know what cheating is or playing him for a fool.


Based on the subsequent discussions, they seem to be in agreement that the activity in question is cheating. There may not have been any nefarious motives behind her initial questions. It may have been a way of getting her husbands opinion on the behavior on the new friends to see whether she should be continuing these friendships.

I think it would have been interesting if at the time they had this discussion if Stevensks asked her "So you would be okay with X (the women in question) giving me bj's behind your back?" I can guarantee you that is not the mental image she had in mind when she posed the question, and I think that he would have found out pretty quickly that she felt that was cheating.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Ina said:


> I would have some strong negative reactions if my spouse begins accusing me of things, withdraws, questions my every action, or begins "spying on me".


And you would probably never say something like this to your spouse...
"What would you call cheating? My response was basically "I feel anything intimate such as kissing, groping, etc. would be cheating." She mentioned something like she thinks any* "penetration" would be cheating*. I asked what she would use to define penetration and she said "*The obvious, and deep kissing"*."​Sometimes when you hear the dinging noise at the rail road crossing, and the guard rails lower, and you hear a loud horn blaring, you have to assume a train is coming.

T


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

AFEH said:


> That's why I think he must Lead The Way out of this by planning with her their future dreams and aspirations as a married couple and working on them as a team to make their dreams realities.


I'm just afraid this will make Stevenks appear too mushy. Too much "relationship talk," might be a turn-off to her. Being a leader, yes. But more in the way of actions than words. He needs to send the message that he's one of those husbands that nobody effs with.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AFEH said:


> The biggest sign of that is her “fantastic” (unbelievable, incredible, implausible, improbable, unlikely) questions about what constitutes cheating. I there’s one thing females know about, it’s cheating in all its forms. *She’s either incredibly naïve and the only woman on the planet who doesn’t know what cheating is or playing him for a fool.*


I think you've just described all women. At least all the ones I've ever known. They can switch it on and off.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> I think you've just described all women. At least all the ones I've ever known. They can switch it on and off.


LOL. It's one of the reasons why it behoves men to recognise and accept they will never get the better of their wife in an argument.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Cubby said:


> I'm just afraid this will make Stevenks appear too mushy. Too much "relationship talk," might be a turn-off to her. Being a leader, yes. But more in the way of actions than words. He needs to send the message that he's one of those husbands that nobody effs with.


Yes he needs to let his wife know what he wont tolerate ... as I posted on the first page.




AFEH said:


> Now is your time to Man Up.
> 
> You now need to create and assert personal boundaries to deal with the situation you find yourself in. To create and learn how to enforce your boundaries read Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men: Wayne M. Levine: 9780979054402: Amazon.com: Books.
> 
> ...


But that's not enough in my mind. In that he needs to discover "where his wife's head is". Is it in (a) short term excitement with her work colleagues or (b) in long term satisfaction and reward with her husband?


He does that by discussing short, medium and long term plans with her.

And of course OP needs to up his sex game such that he turns her on at least as much as her work colleagues do. He needs to discover his wife's deeply sexual needs, she most obviously has them, just that he hasn't discovered and reached them. As yet.


The guy has work to do. He can't be "just one man" with one role in his life. A successful husband wears many hats.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cubby said:


> I'm just afraid this will make Stevenks appear too mushy. Too much "relationship talk," might be a turn-off to her. *Being a leader, yes. But more in the way of actions than words. He needs to send the message that he's one of those husbands that nobody effs with.*


^^^^^^
This works, especially when everything else fails.


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## Scutari (Oct 21, 2012)

Malaise said:


> Why would you let her go to parties with pot smokers, heavy drinking and people who openly cheat?



Or you might go with her to that parties.


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