# Why FULL Disclosure ?



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand. 

That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help? 

IMO that level of detail only sets up the sickest porn movie in the BS's mind & makes everything worse because it can't be shut off. It would just play on an endless hurtful loop.

There has to be some sort of full disclosure that is not quite that much detail. What is the point of telling everything? That seems more like rubbing salt in the wounds, especially if like in a recent thread the married couple had been each other's 1sts and only but now the BS did things with her AP she hasn't done with DH. How the <bleep> does sharing those gory details with him help him heel? It seems like it would just make him feel worse. 

I really don't get it (& I hope I never have to find out 1st hand) but if somebody could enlighten me & maybe others who are trying to find a path forward, that would be appreciated.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I agree with you.

As for me, I did not want full disclosure. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was more than enough. I fear that details would have destroyed me.

Demanding that every betrayed spouse asks for every last detail is not healthy.


----------



## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

I think the advice is that, if R is on the table, the WS wishing to advance R needs to give the BS whatever level of disclosure the BS requests. 

What I've seen as a pattern is that many BS's in R are plagued by mind movies -- that is, imaginary cheater porn -- and the most effective way to end that is the Full Monty disclosure. Sure, there's an element of replacing imagination-driven cheater porn with reality TV cheater porn, but at the very least, it puts a lid on it. The imagination, left unchecked, continuously creates newer and more awful scenarios.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

It's not good, but it is human. People feel hurt and have been betrayed, so knowing everything (or just 'more') gives them ammunition to use against the person who hurt them. They feel justified weaponizing the information.

And that goes hand in hand with the horrible advice to shout it all from the rooftops so that everyone else can shame the offender too.

It's nothing more than morbid curiosity to ask for details, and it definitely has nothing to do with moving forward and working towards forgiveness.


----------



## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I really don't get it (& I hope I never have to find out 1st hand) but if somebody could enlighten me & maybe others who are trying to find a path forward, that would be appreciated.


Not everyone wants to know, but for those who do, it's generally because what they're making up inside their own head is much worse than the reality. So, they keep asking to make sure it's not as bad as their mind movies. Plus, it's the repetition to see if the story changes.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Another problem I have in these situations is that the person who's been cheated on is automatically viewed as completely pure and innocent, while the offender is demonized. 

It all becomes very black and white, but that's not how we are. We're both and all shades in between. Each of us.

My experience is that people enjoy playing victim. They like that attention, and it's an opportunity to hide their own offenses.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

D0nnivain said:


> If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?


I agree with you, although every case is different. John Gottman advises disclosing everything _except_ the icky details you mention.



D0nnivain said:


> in a recent thread the married couple had been each other's 1sts and only but now the BS did things with her AP she hasn't done with DH. How the <bleep> does sharing those gory details with him help him heal?


It definitely doesn't help him heal. It may help him decide whether to stay or not.

The "each others firsts" makes a difference. 

You can understand that if she _liked_ those new things, and wants to ask DH to try them, she's now in a very difficult position (so to speak). She's going to have to attempt something like "_I didn't like HIM, but I did like when he beat me with a bunch of kale, so perhaps you can try that...." _
It all depends....


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


It depends on the BS.

If they ask, the question needs answering truthfully.

Some want to know and some don't but, unless there is something about the affair that needs addressed in counseling, details are up to the BS to ask for and up to the WS to answer truthfully and as many times as asked.


----------



## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

minimalME said:


> Another problem I have in these situations is that the person who's been cheated on is automatically viewed as completely pure and innocent, while the offender is demonized.
> 
> It all becomes very black and white, but that's not how we are. We're both and all shades in between. Each of us.
> 
> My experience is that people enjoy playing victim. They like that attention, and it's an opportunity to hide their own offenses.


Massive amounts of truth to this. There are definitely a few long time posters here, that when you see/read how they interact with others, it's not a very big leap to realize that the story they put up is a very non-objective view of what probably happened to cause the demise of a marriage.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

One person's need for closure or details or whatever is not a cue for another person to perform on demand. In any situation. That's giving power to others - it's idolatry.

Having all the information in the world doesn't guarantee peace within ourselves. That's work we do on our own.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I agree from the point that some just want the details about his **** size and how many times they did it 
Some went so far as to tell her to go Inform THE WIFE of lover boy even though he did not have a wife , yes it looks as if this man used the woman in question but she was excerpting her part in it . 

But I for one would not want every little detail about the sex .
BUT everyone is different , 
We had all so a victim that came back last night saying after trying for a long time she thinks she should divorce 
BUT THAT TOPIC was not as interesting like the free porn in the other so she got few response ,
even though all claimed they would like to be able tell the victim what to do . 

WHAT made the mater worse was that it was her second ever post and her second ever topic and when you look up her other topic her first topic Dates back 2 years ago 
when she posted a topic about her cheating husband and what she should do to make things better


----------



## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


It does not works like this. This is up to the BS to decide.

*IF* the BS request details about the affair from the WS, the WS should not withhold information by assuming that the BS will feel more pain.

The BS is already in extreme pain but wants to see how honest the WS is. Dishonesty will shatter the wheel.

Look at what this BS has to say about his wife:









Believe wife that her affair was never physical


“So in 9 months she worked 58 times till after 21:00,22:00,23:00 at night, she worked 35 weekends”. He lived in a house on the campus? What kind of school is this, hogwarts? Surely you realize that AT LEAST 58 times this guy boned your “wife”. And wife in your case us really, really a...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





He HATES his WS for LYING to him. He knows his wife LIED to him.

He have taught her a lesson by cutting her off from all the CHEATING-ENABLERS in her life. This includes her relatives.

He has endured for his KIDS.

Poor KIDS.

Cheaters do not realize how much DAMAGE they can cause to the KIDS.

But he is still hurting deep down. He is on the knife-edge and have hinted that he will DUMP his wife if he finds something more. She knows it as well.

Therefore.

If the BS does not demands details about the affair, then FINE.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Full disclosure should never be forced. However, if the BS wants it then the WS needs to give it.

The BS needs to figure out why they want that info though. Is it just pain shopping? Do they need the info to move forward? I've also been told (actually, I think it was my wife who was told) to write questions down, really think about why you want/need answers, then wait a few days to see if you still want the answers later. Impulsively asking questions may not be the best bet. Does one really need to know what some other guy tastes like? Probably not. 

I wanted demanded to know _everything_. Every question that you can think of, I asked and she answered. All the gory details. She definitely didn't want to answer a lot of the questions so it's not like she got off on it by any means. It was part of my process though. 

Yeah, it ****ing sucked. Those months/years were awful and I'd rather chew off my own leg than do it again. I have my moments but as long as I'm careful about it knowing doesn't really bother me at this point though. I know what she did and most of the time "it is what it is". Knowing the details of her affairs makes it feel more like another part of "our" history if that makes sense (I'm tired!). There are no secrets left or anything only she or they are privy to.

On the other side of things, my wife prefers not having the details of anything I've done. Sometimes she asks but I don't answer and she drops it very quickly. The few times I've forced info for one reason or another didn't go well. 

She knows me, what I'm into, what I like, etc. and can come up with a pretty good idea of what happened without it coming out of my mouth. I'm sure her ideas aren't always accurate but that works for her, I guess. I never in a billion years saw her cheating so maybe that's part of the difference, I don't know, but she's also definitely a rug sweeper for anything I've done (not for her side). Kinda hard to pretend it didn't happen when you hear all the details.


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

bobert said:


> Full disclosure should never be forced. However, if the BS wants it then the WS needs to give it.
> 
> The BS needs to figure out why they want that info though. Is it just pain shopping? Do they need the info to move forward? I've also been told (actually, I think it was my wife who was told) to write questions down, really think about why you want/need answers, then wait a few days to see if you still want the answers later. Impulsively asking questions may not be the best bet. Does one really need to know what some other guy tastes like? Probably not.
> 
> ...


So did you both cheat then?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> One person's need for closure or details or whatever is not a cue for another person to perform on demand. In any situation. That's giving power to others - it's idolatry.
> 
> Having all the information in the world doesn't guarantee peace within ourselves. That's work we do on our own.


If you are talking about forum posters, I agree.

A betrayed spouse does deserve whatever questions answered though.

I likely wouldn't reconcile and personally couldn't care less about a lot of details but I would want to know what bullpucky was passing for thoughts while she engaged in an affair and I would have answers.

My wife doesn't have the luxury of keeping a bunch of secrets from me anyway and especially in a situation involving infidelity.

The same would be true of me.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> So did you both cheat then?


Yes


----------



## Ford_Prefect (Apr 1, 2021)

Full disclosure is up to the BS as to the amount of detail and only really needed if reconciliation is on the table. To forgive a WS enough to consider reconciling, you may want to know what you are forgiving. Otherwise, every few months/years a new detail may emerge that rips open the wound in the BS's healing heart.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

bobert said:


> Yes
> 
> It is super honest of you and your other post on this topic is super ,
> and judging by the type of cross examination of other posters we have not mover far from the days that the Adulterous person had to were an A on their chest,


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@ConanHub, I'm going to respond in biblical terms, because we're both Christians. If I need to delete this because we're not in the 'religion' section, that's fine.

There are only two choices - respond from a God-centered perspective, or be self-centered. That's it.

We are _commanded_ to forgive. And it is conditional. We will be forgiven as we have chosen to forgive - the measure we use will be used on us.

And we are _commanded_ to die to ourselves. We are to daily pick up our cross (suffer) and choose/put on Christ-like behavior.

You either believe that, or you don't.


----------



## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

:deleted: 

Was nice to be able to vent. Time to continue moving forward. 😌


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

One of the most important methods of coping with retroactive jealousy is that the sufferer must NEVER ask his mate even one more question about the sex he or she had prior to them meeting. Most people lie about their sexual encounters so as to "not hurt" their mate. Just assume that they did all of the sex acts that long-term couples do. They probably did. In my case, they certainly did. Repeated confirmation does not promote healing. It makes the problem worse.

I agree that a WS needs to disclose a certain amount of information to a BS, but the BS needs to understand that knowing everything, at least in many if not most cases, does not promote healing. Once a BS had demanded and received all of the answers to questions that probably shouldn't be asked, you can't put the tube back into the toothpaste. The mind movies become indelible.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Part of me thinks this has to do with simply wanting to know all of the lies, and not getting served “trickle truths.” For me, if my husband were to have some long drawn out affair, I’d want to know some of the details in terms of the timeline because I’d wonder where was I when this was going on? How did I miss all of these red flags and lies? In some way, it may be helpful to gain an understanding for the betrayed as to how slick their spouse was or how complacent the marriage had become to not notice one’s spouse being absent from it.

I know some spouses are great actors but affairs take time and a lot of sneaking around and lying to pull off. I would want details (not sexual) so I would know what to perhaps look for in the future. (Cheating is a deal breaker but in the future with the next relationship, I mean.)


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

minimalME said:


> @ConanHub, I'm going to respond in biblical terms, because we're both Christians. If I need to delete this because we're not in the 'religion' section, that's fine.
> 
> There are only two choices - respond from a God-centered perspective, or be self-centered. That's it.
> 
> ...


So translate that to dealing with infidelity.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> _*I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> *_
> *That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?*



Is there a cheater on this planet who would actually GIVE their betrayed spouse *100%* of the truth? Oh, they'll _claim_ they are, but the chances are pretty slim that ANY cheater is going to give the bare-bones *100% unvarnished truth* to their betrayed spouse. 

For instance, if the sex was hotter and more passionate with the affair partner, the cheater would NEVER, EVER admit that to their spouse *if *they want to stay married. Only a FOOL would admit to that, so I stand by my claim that betrayed spouses don't get 100% of the truth in one way or another. Even if that's just 'one lie,' it proves my point that betrayed spouses do NOT get the 100% varnished truth of the affair. They DON'T.

Some betrayeds need to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but they're not going to get it. However, they'll likely get enough from their cheater to think that they have the whole truth. 

Personally, I don't need to know all the dirty details and wouldn't* WANT* to know them. I was married to a serial cheater a million years ago and he never *once* admitted to anything even though I found proof again and again before I finally left him. I guess it's a good thing I didn't want to know the details because I sure wasn't going to get them. 🤣🤣

Just my 0.2 cents.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Those BS's seeking these minute details are shopping for stimulation.
Basically, pain shopping.

OK, why would anyone actively seek this?

Um, they are desperately seeking stimulation?
Maybe, any sort.

They want to bring their depressed, wrecked, wreaked mind to life.

Surprisingly, by any means.

When one is at the bottom of despair, this must be of help, why else seek this burning?

A bio-chemist might explain it away by saying that the body has re-adjusted to this sad chemical state, and demands its harmful continuance.

*Depression is an irrational Master.

Mental/emotional shock can reprogram the brain to its own un-healthy detriment.*

_The moth to the flame, the bee to the carnivore plant.



King Brian-_


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Is there a cheater on this planet who would actually GIVE their betrayed spouse *100%* of the truth? Oh, they'll _claim_ they are, but the chances are pretty slim that ANY cheater is going to give the bare-bones *100% unvarnished truth* to their betrayed spouse.
> 
> For instance, if the sex was hotter and more passionate with the affair partner, the cheater would NEVER, EVER admit that to their spouse *if *they want to stay married. Only a FOOL would admit to that, so I stand by my claim that betrayed spouses don't get 100% of the truth in one way or another. Even if that's just 'one lie,' it proves my point that betrayed spouses do NOT get the 100% varnished truth of the affair. They DON'T.
> 
> ...


Oh my!

I could give you those details, but I would be soon banned, concurrently, locked back in my closet. 

🙃



_The Typist-_


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Personally, I don't want to know any details. If I find out my husband has been getting friendly with another woman, I think our marriage will be over. My image of him will die, and I won't trust him ever again. 

I don't want any details because I know myself and I know those details will kill me. It's a self preservation thing.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> @ConanHub, I'm going to respond in biblical terms, because we're both Christians. If I need to delete this because we're not in the 'religion' section, that's fine.
> 
> There are only two choices - respond from a God-centered perspective, or be self-centered. That's it.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty solid on my theology though I don't usually post it here.

I'm extremely confident in the position I've taken and can do a very credible job of displaying the scriptural foundation.

I wouldn't mind taking the time to share in the religion forum but I have very little patience with those who don't even profess in my faith, trying to educate me about a God they deny even exists. LoL!

If you like, I will start a thread but warm up your bible because it will be getting a workout.😉


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Sfort said:


> So translate that to dealing with infidelity.


Acceptance and forgiveness.

Even if the offended chooses divorce, which is an option.

On a personal note, I'm not dealing with adultery, but I am being treated _very_ badly in my family. I'm being lied about. I'm being ganged up on and bullied. I'm being 'scapegoated'. By the majority of my family.

What is my response going to be? 

I can turn in on myself and get depressed and feel hopeless and become suicidal - or I can accept the situation and forgive the people involved and move on with my life.

And I'm sharing this because I want to show that I'm not just full of talk. I know what it means to suffer unfairly.

What I'm suggesting is so, so hard. And it's a daily challenge. Some days are good and other aren't. But I will live out my beliefs. I will obey.


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

I didn't want to have details, nor did I need them after the fact. The only details I needed was the proof that came to me unsolicited. I am not one for reconciling, so there was never a need for me to have "full disclosure".

IMHO I feel that anything less than divorce just prolongs the pain and shortens the already limited time we have to spend with someone more deserving.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Acceptance and forgiveness.
> 
> Even if the offended chooses divorce, which is an option.
> 
> ...


Infidelity spells that betrayal of loyalty.

You do suffer that same betrayal.
You are being cheated on by your kin, your own blood.

This breach is not physical, but certainly is that emotional dis-loyalty.

You are the nail that refuses to remain board-level.

Your minds-eye is above the plane, hence it must be pounded down, certainly dealt that cursing.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The details of infidelity are, is that dirt.

Who, save worms like to eat of dirt?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Most people are going to lie, anyway......

I guess its all a means to an end if the end result is a split....I mean, does it really matter at that point? 

Truth is most people, even in marriages or relationships without infidelity probably don't want to really know what the other person really feels about the other, if brutal honesty is really employed...They may adore one another, but its probably rare that there is absolutely nothing that the other person thinks would be "better" if they had the option..

Or let's just say a guy decided to be brutally honest and say the AP had a far better body than she did...Or the WW says the AP had a much bigger penis...What do you do with that info, if you decide to stay? How would the BS ever get over those types of revelations??...

I'm guessing the gory details are probably only going to make it a lot worse, if the intention is to reconcile, but I dunno...


----------



## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

Why are you trying to decide for everyone else what information is needed?


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I think a major part of the suggestion of full disclosure is to avoid a D-Day #2 if a new bit of information comes out at sometime later.

Like post reconciliation and the couple, while doing well and stable, is discussing something and the wayward spouse doesn't fully remember exactly what they revealed before and they let a new piece of information out and the betrayed spouse basically reverts back to day 1 again.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


The problem is if you don't then your BS just assumes all that stuff happened anyway or they are tortured with questions.

If we are to have an honest assessment of this situation, the question shouldn't be about revealing details, the question is, is it healthy to try to stay together at all?

If you are, then I think a lot of people would rather deal with the truth because at least it's the truth. In a sense it gives you your agency back, it allows you to make an informed choice which is exactly what the affair took away from you. This is why the BS wants it, they want full control over their decision making. It's also hard to have intimacy with someone when you know they have shared secrets that happened in your marriage, about things that were supposed to be reserved for your marriage. Most WS don't understand this because they never understood the intimacy fact to begin with. The point is the BS is already at a point where they feel it can't get any worse.

But lets be honest lots of relationships trying to R are anything but healthy. Lots of WS should have never been married to anyone in the first place, they just don't have the emotional copacity to do it. Lots of BS have also never been emotional healthy and that is exactly why they are married to someone who would cheat on them in such a brutal way. These are two poor souls who ended up with each other because they were the last people standing in their dating life.

I could write the exact same post but change it from gory details to the WS continued presence in the BS life. They are ever present and in most cases a lifetime trigger. In mind THEY are the walking talking gory details. 

Trying to stay together after an affair and eventually having a good marriage is an extremely rare thing. It can happen but people win the lottery too, that doesn't mean playing the lottery is a good retirement strategy.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

sokillme said:


> If we are to have an honest assessment of this situation, the question shouldn't be about revealing details, the question is, is it healthy to try to stay together at all?


I second this sentiment.

Also, getting all the details seems to make it much more likely that the betrayed will realize that it is not a healthy decision to reconcile, and in the vast majority of cases, reconciliation is not healthy.

Putting one's head in the sand so they can move forward seems like a bad idea on many levels.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like without knowing the details you will just fill in the blanks on your own, but you will never really know what is real or imagined. Odds are both are equally bad, but at least you know which is reality. For me it would be torture to not know. At the same time, I couldn't continue in the marriage either way. Hearing the gory details would likely just make my decision to leave that much more solid. 

This seems similar to whether or not you should tell a spouse about an affair. If you cheat then stop and never get caught, some will say it is better to allow your spouse to live in blissful ignorance.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Or let's just say a guy decided to be brutally honest and say the AP had a far better body than she did...Or the WW says the AP had a much bigger penis...What do you do with that info, if you decide to stay? How would the BS ever get over those types of revelations??...


Some people can, some people can't. They certainly won't just "get over it" on their own, they need to be willing to put in the work with an IC (which sucks). The circumstances of the disclosure may matter as well. 

My wife didn't use the details of her affairs as a weapon to hurt me. She was completely honest, I have no doubts about that, but he goal wasn't to hurt me further. 

I complained about her AP's being steriod-using gym rats and taller than me. It's not like I'm short but they are 6'5" and I believe 6'3". One was bigger (in length) and the other was "pretty much the exact same" in length and girth, except for the curve and being covered in far more freckles (see, asked way too many details). One is a ginger with an Irish accent and she has always had a thing for them. She did plenty of things with one of them that she wasn't and isn't doing with me and was basically his sex toy. And she enjoyed the sex far better with the other one than with anyone else, including me. 

Most of the time my reaction is "whatever" and not letting myself think about it too much. It is what it is. It was all talked about so damn much, and that helped me understand some of it and let go of other bits. Why should I care if one was bigger when I have to be careful as it is or I'll hurt her? If I was self-conscious about my size then I'm sure it would be harder. For some things like height and body type, there is no point getting hung up on something I cannot change but it also helped to understand why she was drawn to them (which goes back to some childhood issues). And she looks ridiculous standing next to the 6'5 AP when she's 5'2 and normally 100lbs, if that. Same with sex being far more adventurous with one and better with the other - understanding the _why_ helps. It's NOT fun talking about it and getting through it but people can. 

On the other side of things, I did use the details of what I did to hurt her. I wanted her to hurt and I'd get pissed off then start saying things just to hurt her. 

The way she heard "you suck at..." and so-and-so was better in bed, more fun, sexier, better body, better at x,y z, etc. wasn't said in a gentle way and it wasn't information that she asked for. She isn't over it in the slightest and I'm not sure she ever will be, especially because there was truth to it. It's on her mind every day and it definitely affects our relationship. She also refuses to work on it so... And admittedly, she's far better at the whole "do whatever it takes" stuff which probably matters as well when it comes to healing. 



re16 said:


> I think a major part of the suggestion of full disclosure is to avoid a D-Day #2 if a new bit of information comes out at sometime later.
> 
> Like post reconciliation and the couple, while doing well and stable, is discussing something and the wayward spouse doesn't fully remember exactly what they revealed before and they let a new piece of information out and the betrayed spouse basically reverts back to day 1 again.


Full disclosure definitely does help with this. 

After D-Day my wife trickle-truthed for about 1.5 to 2 months, then dumped out the real timeline. A couple months later we started seeing a MC and for a few months everything else came out and was talked about. It was awful but we got it all out there and were able to start working on it and moving forward (very, very slowly). There were a few small details or info that came out later on but that's the nature with long-term affairs (small things can be forgotten) and the BS figuring themselves out in IC. 

There is no way I'd be able to deal with finding out a huge piece of info months or years down the line and reverting back to day 1 again. Easing into something like infidelity disclosure isn't helpful at all.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> Some people can, some people can't. They certainly won't just "get over it" on their own, they need to be willing to put in the work with an IC (which sucks). The circumstances of the disclosure may matter as well.
> 
> My wife didn't use the details of her affairs as a weapon to hurt me. She was completely honest, I have no doubts about that, but he goal wasn't to hurt me further.
> 
> ...


So your wife did NOT weaponize the details of her APs against you, but you DID about your APs to her...?
I'm not asking to judge you, necessarily (although I probably am at least a little bit), but just to clarify if that's what you are saying your dynamic is.


----------



## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> It definitely doesn't help him heal. It may help him decide whether to stay or not.


Well said.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


Full disclosure gives the BS the info to decide if they want to reconcile. There may be something there that is a deal breaker. The sex acts the spouse denied hubby since marriage, etc. 

To me it would help sear in my mind what a vile and defiled person my wife was...it would help help fuel my resolve to nuke it all and kill any love I had for her. I would want to know because cheating is a deal breaker for me. 

I am a guy that sex is much more than a physical act. Sex can lead to pregnancy, I remember the way I felt about my wife when she was pregnant and the love and bond we had then.

For her to cheat, knowing pregnancy is possibility, in my mind it would be her acknowledging she wants to have APs baby and have that same bond we had, with him. Game Over....

The details would just help to speed up the destruction of my love for her. Lessen the length of time of my pain by increasing my loathing disgust and disdain toward her.


----------



## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Full disclosure gives the BS the info to decide if they want to reconcile. There may be something there that is a deal breaker.


Well said


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> So your wife did NOT weaponize the details of her APs against you, but you DID about your APs to her...?
> I'm not asking to judge you, necessarily (although I probably am at least a little bit), but just to clarify if that's what you are saying your dynamic is.


Curious, is your relationship any good at this point? Why not divorce?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> So your wife did NOT weaponize the details of her APs against you, but you DID about your APs to her...?
> I'm not asking to judge you, necessarily (although I probably am at least a little bit), but just to clarify if that's what you are saying your dynamic is.


Correct.

If we want full honesty... If I'm hurting, I want her to hurt too. Kind of a "you caused this so take some of it back" thing. Or if she's bringing up anything I did and I get defensive, I know how to shut her up/shut her down. I could try and word that more nicely but that's what it is so no point sugar coating it... Sometimes there is a bit of not wanting her to leave or be with someone else, whether that's an affair or a "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you either" thing. So sometimes tearing her down eases whatever feeling that is, even though in reality it's more likely to backfire. 

She doesn't do that. She tried a "taste of your own medicine" thing once but that sort of thing isn't her or how she wants to act. I'm well aware that I'm an ass.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

snowbum said:


> Curious, is your relationship any good at this point? Why not divorce?


I think you meant to ask @bobert this...?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It all depends on the BS.I am one of those people who can't process things or heal or move on unless I know the details. I have had several occasions in my life where things were kept from me and having found things out later I really wish I had known at the time. 
Mr D on the other had doesn't need to know details and never asked his ex much about her affair. 

So I would say play it by ear but I definitely agree that certain things need to be told such as how long the affair was, who the AP is, where did you meet up for sex etc.


----------



## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

I think some guys get off on the sorted details in some way. There was a couple on our old forum d0nni where the woman had cheated on her husband like 30 years ago and that's all she talked about. How she had cheated 30 years ago. In front of him. It was almost like it was the only exciting thing they had going on in their boring marriage.

Oh, and @bobert , that's not you being an ass. Being an ass would imply strength. That's you tantruming like a 4 year old and taking it out on her because you allowed yourself to be humiliated by not having the fortitude to leave. The cheating is on her, your reaction to it is on you.

If you end up cheated on either have the strength to leave or the strength to forgive them and stay. Don't occupy a weird, indecisive, angry middle ground where you just stay and tantrum. It's the worst thing you can do.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

minimalME said:


> Acceptance and forgiveness.
> 
> Even if the offended chooses divorce, which is an option.
> 
> ...


I accepted but will never forgive. That's just me though


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


I can’t speak for everyone, but personally, I wanted to know EVERYTHING. Here are the reasons:

1) If it’s not too terrible to DO, then it isn’t too terrible to speak about. 

2) The first step of true remorse in my opinion is shifting to honesty. If one can’t be honest, then there is no remorse. Whether that makes you feel bad about yourself is beside the point. 

3) It’s nobody’s job to manage the information I want for me. And I argued this with the MCs, ICs and the cheater. I decide the information I need, not anyone else. 

4) It’s not about reconciliation, it’s about having an accurate (or as close to it as possible) story to understand what was happening to me in my own life and marriage. If the details are being kept to ensure a more successful reconciliation, then it’s based on fiction and denial and isn’t real anyway. 

5) If someone else has information on what my spouse was doing behind my back, I deserve to know it. There should be zero secrets left between AP and Cheater. This is another piece of true remorse, the intimacy is shifted away from the AP, this includes the secrets. I want to know everything, because secrets have power. 

I did in fact use the details to heal through EMDR. I never got the full truth or details because I stopped asking them at some point, but many of my fictional mind movies were replaced with more realistic mind movies, and those were used during EMDR. I can say I don’t have many of those triggers now because of it. And I know if someone who witnessed (or was in) the affair let something out accidentally or on purpose, it wouldn’t bother me… as opposed to hearing new information that was kept to “save me”. 

I became the detective of my marriage. I wanted every single detail of the crime itself to get an accurate story of what happened when my marriage was murdered with the multitude of evidence. 

I’ve worked VERY hard on myself using this experience as a catalyst for becoming a better person. I was a pretty good wife, and I got cheated on, but I had to assess a lot of my issues in why I ended up in the place I did, with the kind of person that would cheat on me. Being inquisitive, specific, and detail oriented has only helped me in this endeavor.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> Correct.
> 
> If we want full honesty... If I'm hurting, I want her to hurt too. Kind of a "you caused this so take some of it back" thing. Or if she's bringing up anything I did and I get defensive, I know how to shut her up/shut her down. I could try and word that more nicely but that's what it is so no point sugar coating it... Sometimes there is a bit of not wanting her to leave or be with someone else, whether that's an affair or a "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you either" thing. So sometimes tearing her down eases whatever feeling that is, even though in reality it's more likely to backfire.
> 
> She doesn't do that. She tried a "taste of your own medicine" thing once but that sort of thing isn't her or how she wants to act. I'm well aware that I'm an ass.


Well, I wouldn't call you an ass exactly...but I just wonder if acting that way gets you what you want LONG TERM. I know it feels good in the moment, but when you speak that way you are basically attacking and tearing down whatever good you've built up. It appears in those moments that you can control her feelings by going on the attack, but eventually you are going to lose that control and potentially lose her or her love/respect/trust. Your reconciliation is still very young, and struggling to "mature" into a REAL marriage/love between you both (from how it sounds, not that I know for sure).

It just surprises me that you are still stuck at this point, because you are SO SMART -- your posts to help others have a brilliant honesty about them that I'm sure are so helpful for people -- but the way you relate can be so toxic and damaging TO YOU, I don't know why you haven't used your considerable understanding and self-knowledge to choose to truly heal your relationship. And maybe you ARE, I'm not saying I could possibly know the nuances of what you are thinking and feeling.

I am NOT judging you as bad or good (how could I?)...but maybe just trying to understand how you can struggle so mightily with this. And allow your emotions to create situations that will have consequences that could hurt you in the future.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I can see how just knowing the truth is empowering when you have been living with lies and making uniformed decisions for a long time.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

bobert said:


> Correct.
> 
> If we want full honesty... If I'm hurting, I want her to hurt too. Kind of a "you caused this so take some of it back" thing. Or if she's bringing up anything I did and I get defensive, I know how to shut her up/shut her down. I could try and word that more nicely but that's what it is so no point sugar coating it... Sometimes there is a bit of not wanting her to leave or be with someone else, whether that's an affair or a "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you either" thing. So sometimes tearing her down eases whatever feeling that is, even though in reality it's more likely to backfire.
> 
> She doesn't do that. She tried a "taste of your own medicine" thing once but that sort of thing isn't her or how she wants to act. I'm well aware that I'm an ass.


I am afraid if I was cheated on, my rage would drive me to the place I would separate and stack 25-40 yr old women like chord wood to try to erase the thought of my wife.

Hell I have had a couple of young hotties give me looks that made me feel like a mouse in a room of hungry kitties. I thought, damn girl I am old enough to be your daddy. No I'm not saying that kind of daddy 😜. 

If wife went there I might be tempted. But would need to see ID first to be sure.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Numb26 said:


> I accepted but will never forgive. That's just me though


Forgiving is for your well being not theirs.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My husband was a world-class liar. There was no way to know if anything he said was really the truth so when I decided to reconcile I did it without details. I eventually forgave him but I never forgot for a moment that he was a cheater and capable of many things. Maybe what he did wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought. Or maybe it was much worse. I’ll never know and it no longer matters. Everyone handles these things in their own way.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Most betrayed spouses need the details to know if they want to R or D. Some need it for their own peace of mind. Some use it to go after the cheater.

It is every betrayed spouses decision of what level of info they need to heal and move forward.


----------



## GreatDaytoBay (6 mo ago)

It's not full disclosure that is required, it is full honesty. So if the BS needs to hear the details, then the WS needs to tell the details with full honesty. If the BS doesn't ask for or need the details, then you don't have to tell them, that would just be cruel.

Whether the BS decides to end the marriage after asking for and hearing the details is irrelevant to whether the WS should provide as much detail as the BS asks for. IMHO, if the WS fails to provide full honesty the marriage is doomed.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I asked for all the details often... Hearing them kept me continually motivated to push the divorce along lol.


----------



## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Replying after reading the first post. I didn't read the whole thread yet. 

The full disclosure depends on what the BS needs and asks. Some people don't need to know the details and some people do. Simple as that. 

The other issue is that *healing for the betrayed spouse can't truly begin till the last lie has been told.* Not giving details could be considered as lying by omission. So, whenever the betrayed spouse finds a new (to her/him) piece of information, it could feel like the D-day all over again and it has the potential to wipe out all the progress that has been made thus far.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I’m in the “tell me everything or GTFO” camp.

As for why, much of it has to do with demonstrating a willingness to be held to account.


----------



## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

From what I can glean, full disclosure can mean:

Full honesty; the marriage before is dead and buried. In order for a new one to be rebuilt in reconciliation, that means full honesty, no lies whatsoever. It’s a means for the WS to be accountable in order to prove sincerity.
Gauging whether reconciliation is the best path to go, as Divinely Favored put it. Because of course why should you reconcile with someone who basically had a whole nother relationship with the works? Saves time and heartache.
Making sense of what’s happened over the duration the affair(s) lasted. Because of course what we imagine in our heads to fill in the blanks is way worse.
Wanting nothing to remain private between WS and AP. With everything out in the open, there won’t be anything left for the WS reminisce about the AP without imagining the BS’s knowledge and pain to go with it. This way, it blows a hole into any secret bubbles of affection or residual feelings for AP and exposes the relationship they think they had as a sham (partially taken from SI).


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I for one wanted to know everything. No detail was to insignificant to me. I had to know precisely what I was forgiving. If we were going to reconcile I wanted full disclosure. I had two primary purposes, the first to make her significantly uncomfortable, and secondly to know what she did with him. 

I did not want to keep having thoughts about this, thoughts about that, etc. I had to know. Also, I had a poly she had to take after we discuss all of the details.

For me, R would not have been possible without knowing the facts.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I for one wanted to know everything. No detail was to insignificant to me. I had to know precisely what I was forgiving. If we were going to reconcile I wanted full disclosure. I had two primary purposes, the first to make her significantly uncomfortable, and secondly to know what she did with him.
> 
> I did not want to keep having thoughts about this, thoughts about that, etc. I had to know. Also, I had a poly she had to take after we discuss all of the details.
> 
> For me, R would not have been possible without knowing the facts.


I had never considered that - you wanted to know what you were forgiving. That really makes a lot of sense to me, now.


----------



## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

I can understand that disclosing each fact may be unhealthy ...... form a "healing" viewpoint.
But as I have my own set of serious objections about said perspective I don´t take it as the main obstacle to know and perhaps neither the main motivation for knowing.
I´ll refrain at least for now to discuss the above as it may be / become a TJ.
Let´s instead say that if what I know is enough to leave, the will for knowledge even if persists would be more...abstract.
If not and in the doubt I would want to have the best possible description of what happened.
So to make my emotions and decisions to be conditional to the factual out there.
If that requires pain, so be it.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Sfort said:


> One of the most important methods of coping with retroactive jealousy is that the sufferer must NEVER ask his mate even one more question about the sex he or she had prior to them meeting. Most people lie about their sexual encounters so as to "not hurt" their mate. Just assume that they did all of the sex acts that long-term couples do. They probably did. In my case, they certainly did. Repeated confirmation does not promote healing. It makes the problem worse.
> 
> I agree that a WS needs to disclose a certain amount of information to a BS, but the BS needs to understand that knowing everything, at least in many if not most cases, does not promote healing. Once a BS had demanded and received all of the answers to questions that probably shouldn't be asked, you can't put the tube back into the toothpaste. The mind movies become indelible.


This debate is frequent because everyone thinks it's full disclosure or no full disclosure. The reality is there's not just one answer. It's one or the other depending on the individual's makeup, mindset. emotional health, etc. It's like asking which is the best sport, football or basketball. The answer is it's an individual choice so there's no right or wrong. Whatever is right for you is right for you and whatever is right for the next person is right for them.

What's right for me is full disclosure. I do not care how bad it is or how it will leave me feeling because if reconciliation is in the balance, I need to know who and what I am reconciling with. I choose to feel horrible knowing the truth than risking further infidelity because of not knowing what my wife is capable of doing. Let's use the fictitious example below to make my point where the levels of egregious actions(details) escalates with each number. 


My significant other/wife was unfaithful .
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend 
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house 
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection while we were trying to get pregnant
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection while we were trying to get pregnant and continued contact after D-Day
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection while we were trying to get pregnant and continued contact after D-Day through emails that disparaged me as a father and husband.
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection while we were trying to get pregnant and continued contact after D-Day through emails that disparaged me as a father and husband and sexting to a degree of vulgarity that I wouldn't believe it was her if I hadn't read it myself
My significant other/wife was unfaithful with my friend in my house on my bed without protection while we were trying to get pregnant and continued contact after D-Day through emails that disparaged me as a father and husband and sexting to a degree of vulgarity that I wouldn't believe it was her if I hadn't read it myself and doesn't know what she wants to do. 
I made this scenario up but the key elements and actions can be substituted with any story you've experienced or read. So my wife's infidelity would "probably" be a deal breaker for some if they just knew the basics, let's say numbers 1 and 2. 

For me personally further disclosures reveals a shocking series of DECISIONS that far exceed the infidelity itself. These decisions significantly impacts my reconciliation decision which are 100% based on additional information that some would consider full disclosures. Everyone does stuff differently, but in my reasoning each egregious act gives me a read on my wife's capability. She's not just capable of having an affair. She's shown evidence of making decisions that desecrates the home and family life. 

She's capable of having an affair with my friend, in my house on my bed, without protection, while we were trying to get pregnant, continued contact, disparaged me in emails and is still unsure if she wants to remain married. What she showed me is what she's capable of. If I don't know these details I don't know what the person I'm considering reconciling with is capable of. 

What she has already done and that I have knowledge of, is what she's capable of in the future even with therapy and a significant changes which if course we already know because of the amount of repeats we read here. I'm not even predicting that she would be a cheater, but it's what I feel she's capable of that will determine it for me. 

Ever hear about a friend or relative that committed a serious crime and you said to yourself, I'm actually not too surprised. Chances are you weren't surprised because that person past behaviors suggested he was capable of doing something like that. Some people reveal themselves as capable of killing someone. Others aren't. Some people reveal they are capable of robbing someone. Others are not. It's not an exact science so much of a personal read on another's actions. 

I'm incapable of forcing my son to leave the home because of his emotional instability. Some fathers don't give a heck and are capable of removing there kids from the home regardless of incapacities. It's not a good or bad thing. It's just a self imposed measurement by your gut of another person's actions and the determination of whether you condone it or not. Simple as that. 

People reveal themselves through behaviors and while it's not full proof, it's sufficient enough for me to make a significant life altering decision on being with them or not. It's not just the infidelity, of which any person can get caught up in. But, there are various degrees of actions that for me define a person's capability that are unique in each adulterer. 

I had an extremely f'd up affair in my early 20's. I ran into my girlfriend's dad while with my AP. Turns out, my girlfriends dad was cheating on his wife and our AP's were relatives. THE MOST EMBARASSING THING IN MY LIFE BY A MILE. A couple weeks later, my AP attempted to take her life because she wanted more than just a sexual relationship. I just wanted the sex to continue as it had for 4 months, on demand, extremely frequent and extremely good. After her attempt, I said that's it for me. I'm done with this life style. 

I started staying home and visiting my parents watching TV like I did as a kid to straighten my morality. I was raised well and sought to reconnect with the source of my decency, my parents. Never again I said to cheating. It's not in my DNA. On the flipside, some wayward spouses are capable of continuing the affair regardless of the multilevel family and generational damages that can be caused. 

In real life I was cheated on by two fiances. I severed my engagement with both pretty quickly and never sought details because the only detail I needed was they had sex with the AP. I didn't ask any questions about details because it was insignificant to me considering the infidelity was a deal breaker and the relationship was over. By the way, I never thought about being cheated on (arrogance) and didn't know how I was going to respond. Turns out, my tolerance for it is a zero.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> Curious, is your relationship any good at this point? Why not divorce?


Assuming this was for me... 

It has its moments. 

Right now things suck so it's hard for me to not be a grump about it. It's a work in progress though. We're two people who both have issues, in a marriage that has always had issues, with a large and busy family that is easy to be distracted by. It's not going to get better overnight, and it certainly won't get better when one or both of us are not working on it or when one of us (mainly me) keeps screwing it up. 

I have no desire to get divorced or head in that direction, quite the opposite really (though my actions sometimes say otherwise). I can't say that's always been the case but that's where I'm at right now.



LisaDiane said:


> Well, I wouldn't call you an ass exactly...but I just wonder if acting that way gets you what you want LONG TERM. I know it feels good in the moment, but when you speak that way you are basically attacking and tearing down whatever good you've built up. It appears in those moments that you can control her feelings by going on the attack, but eventually you are going to lose that control and potentially lose her or her love/respect/trust. Your reconciliation is still very young, and struggling to "mature" into a REAL marriage/love between you both (from how it sounds, not that I know for sure).
> 
> It just surprises me that you are still stuck at this point, because you are SO SMART -- your posts to help others have a brilliant honesty about them that I'm sure are so helpful for people -- but the way you relate can be so toxic and damaging TO YOU, I don't know why you haven't used your considerable understanding and self-knowledge to choose to truly heal your relationship. And maybe you ARE, I'm not saying I could possibly know the nuances of what you are thinking and feeling.
> 
> I am NOT judging you as bad or good (how could I?)...but maybe just trying to understand how you can struggle so mightily with this. And allow your emotions to create situations that will have consequences that could hurt you in the future.


You are correct that it doesn't get me what I want long term (though in the moment I'm either not thinking about that or what I want long term changes). You're also correct that it destroys whatever we've built up, and the more it happens the harder it is to "rebuild" it. And I'd say you're correct about the struggling to mature as well. So correct all around  

I do feel like a hypocrite at times. Gaining knowledge, knowing what you should do, and spitting it back out is easy though. Even doing it here and there is (or can be) easy. Doing it all the time, with consistency takes actual change. 

It is something that I'm working on and it has improved but it's still a work in progress. It's not as simple as "just stop doing that" (not saying thats what you're implying!). In a way, it's a dynamic we've had pretty much since we started dating 19 years ago. So there's a lot more to it than just my reaction to her infidelity.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

minimalME said:


> It's not good, but it is human. People feel hurt and have been betrayed, so knowing everything (or just 'more') gives them ammunition to use against the person who hurt them. They feel justified weaponizing the information.
> 
> *And that goes hand in hand with the horrible advice to shout it all from the rooftops so that everyone else can shame the offender too.*
> 
> It's nothing more than morbid curiosity to ask for details, and it definitely has nothing to do with moving forward and working towards forgiveness.


I do not agree. 
One of the main ways to keep a cheater accountable is to let all the family and friends know. I know many who decided not to do this, keep the secret, even from their closest family and kids, cover for the cheater and the cheater goes and cheats again. This is part of consequences, without consequences very few cheaters wring their hands in despair at what they have done to their BS. Shame is a powerful weapon.
Secondly, it is human to want to know the details. Knowing the details lets the BS consider whether their WS has sunk to depths even deeper. It will be part of the decision whether to reconcile or not. If the BS decides to divorce then the details are irrelevant. Each person is not the same.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

aine said:


> I do not agree.
> One of the main ways to keep a cheater accountable is to let all the family and friends know. I know many who decided not to do this, keep the secret, even from their closest family and kids, cover for the cheater and the cheater goes and cheats again. This is part of consequences, without consequences very few cheaters wring their hands in despair at what they have done to their BS. *Shame is a powerful weapon.*
> Secondly, it is human to want to know the details. Knowing the details lets the BS consider whether their WS has sunk to depths even deeper. It will be part of the decision whether to reconcile or not. If the BS decides to divorce then the details are irrelevant. Each person is not the same.


I understand, though I doubt you put yourself under the same type of accountability and scrutiny. 

Everyone keeps secrets. No one in your life knows who you really are, because you hide it. No one is as honest or transparent as they believe themselves to be.

Shame is _weaponized_ to damage and destroy. It's actually abusive, and, in their pain, people feel justified hurting the one who hurt them.

The community holding someone responsible is ideally (biblically) an opportunity for confession and repentance and restoration, but that's not what you (or really anyone on TAM) advocate. All of you are more like a lynch mob - judge and jury and executioners, full of self-righteous bitterness.

There's no love or good involved in any of this.

I'm done. 🙂


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

bobert said:


> Assuming this was for me...
> 
> It has its moments.
> 
> ...


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> When you say you’re a hypocrite and screw up do you mean you’re currently cheating?


Currently, no.


----------



## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

For me cheating is a deal breaker. End of story. 

That said, if someone else was considering reconciling after being cheated on, I definitely understand wanting to know all the details they could so that they could have a better feel for what they're dealing with and if they could even attempt reconciliation. 

Would hearing these details be painful? Absolutely but everything about infidelity is painful. Why add to it? I'm of the belief that when one doesn't know what happened it's natural to think the worse. 

I guess it comes down to each individual handling it the best they can and thus to each his own.


----------



## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?


If the BS wants to know it, they should give it to them. I certainly didn't need details. Just knowing she spread 'em for other men was enough for me.

But I think some BS, particularly men, want to know details because they want to know just how much more consideration their wives gave the OM with their monkey sex that he never got as her committed partner, which might just push them one way or the other on the reconciliation/divorce fence.


----------



## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

I don’t think it’s always a good idea to have full disclosure. It wasn’t in my case. 
For a period of fine, I wanted to know everything with a vengence, especially after he started spying on me when I had my own affair. The hyprocisy of his insisting on knowing everything when I knew very little enraged me to no end. It was a big ole mess, and if you care to read all the sordid, sad details, you can find them in my original threads from way back.
Eventually, especially over these past few years, we've both come to realize that it would be way to painful and counterproductive at this point to revisit all that. My H did admit that he was drinking so much during his affairs that he can't even remember some of them. I believe that for sure.

I try to focus now on the future and gratitude for the good things he brings to my life, and there are many.

I will admit that I occasionally have fantasies of a deathbed confession on his part. Though it better be when there's no chance of recovery.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm not one who cares for details...I'm mainly interested in whether my partner is trustworthy. If I feel like they're not details don't matter at all.

When I found out my ex had kept his ex gf around our entire relationship I tested his willing to lie by starting with simple questions, like whether she was on FB with him. He lied about absolutely everything until he realized I already knew, then he'd change his story to accommodate only those details he was sure I knew. He gaslighted, lied, through tantrums, stonewalled, and bullshitted.

I never had proof it was physical. It may well have been but once I realized he was a liar nothing else mattered to me. If he'd been honest about everything I asked I doubt I would've asked for any details.

Once I know you lack integrity I just assume you're a ****bag and anything goes.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Hitchcock knew that the mos compelling horror was always what the mind could create using incomplete information. He didn’t need to show the actual slashing because you filled in the blanks using your own mind, based upon your own fears.

That’s why just knowing “what” happened can be worse for the betrayed than knowing how (and other details) because the missing sections allow for personal horrors that could be greatly worse than what actually went on.

Plus, credibility. The Betrayed Spouse was presumably lied to before, and some things left out could be considered more lies (by omission).

There’s no one answer that fits all, but I think it’s wrong to deny the betrayed based on the betrayer’s feeling that they shouldn’t have to know.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

minimalME said:


> I understand, though I doubt you put yourself under the same type of accountability and scrutiny.
> 
> Everyone keeps secrets. No one in your life knows who you really are, because you hide it. No one is as honest or transparent as they believe themselves to be.
> 
> ...


Not everyone, @minimalME. 

Of course, if you see examples of bad behaviour please report it.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Not everyone, @minimalME.


😬


----------



## Jimmysgirl (9 mo ago)

I wouldn't want details. I'd be too busy packing his bags to put on her doorstep and changing the locks to have time to ask.


----------



## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

For me it was necessary. I was going crazy wondering what they had done and had to press for details. Did she do things with him that she doesn't do with me? Did they use protection? Did he ejaculate inside her? Did she swallow his semen? These things mattered to me. The facts did not create mind movies they helped dispel some of the ones I was already creating.

It sounds like for you, details are not necessary or even desirable. I think as a general rule full disclosure is best. However, the BS sets the rules. If they want details the WS must give them if there is to be a hope of R. The same is true if they don't want details.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> I see a lot of advice on this board that the WS should tell the BS EVERYTHING. I just don't understand.
> 
> That doesn't sound healthy to me. If you have learned that your spouse cheated how is hearing every dirty detail of every sex act they committed with the AP including, when, where, & how often, whether their were orgasms, & what positions going to help?
> 
> ...


Absolutely. Men seem to have a particularly hard time getting sex images out of their head so I think it's really stupid to go into any detail about it. Sometimes I think they just want more ammunition, but if it comes at the cost of their own peace of mind, it's a self-defeating foolhardy request.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like without knowing the details you will just fill in the blanks on your own, but you will never really know what is real or imagined. Odds are both are equally bad, but at least you know which is reality. For me it would be torture to not know. At the same time, I couldn't continue in the marriage either way. Hearing the gory details would likely just make my decision to leave that much more solid.
> 
> This seems similar to whether or not you should tell a spouse about an affair. If you cheat then stop and never get caught, some will say it is better to allow your spouse to live in blissful ignorance.


I had a real big reaction when best friend and roommate slept with the guy I was serious about, but I can honestly say I never wasted one second wondering who put what where in bed. Betrayal was the whole nine yards for me. To this day I have no curiosity about the sex they had. His body is not my body. I don't care what she did to it.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I would only want details for two reasons.

1) Ammo necessary for legal or spiteful purposes
2) if I was considering a reconciliation

If I had already decided it was over and was going to just let her go I wouldn't want to know. I'd only want to know for purposes of making a decision or for fuel.


----------



## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

Full disclosure should include a timeline of who they did it with and when/where. Also, when did things move from EA to PA. Anything beyond that is unadvisable, although I do understand the reasoning that knowing the details means it's no longer only the WS's story, it's now a shared history, in a kind of weird way.


----------



## My Monsters (Mar 13, 2021)

A very wise older lady told me (from experience), you will have a burning desire to know all the details….but you don’t need to know all the dirty detail (especially sexual ones), in the long run it’s just more you have to let go of and forget….and forgive if you decide to.


----------

