# What are your red flags for spouses opposite gender friendships



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

What are your red flags for your spouse interacting with opposite gender friends? 

It seems to me there is a wide variation of what is considered appropriate, dangerous, ok, foolish, etc. 

Some are very careful and conservative that some would consider being controlled or insecure to the point of being extremely trusting and supportive to the point of being absolutely foolish.

For example, would it be bothersome to you for your spouse 

1. to be at home alone with an opposite gender friend?
2. to discuss marriage difficulties with an opposite gender friend?
3. to discuss sex with an opposite gender friend?
4. to coach a youth sport with an opposite gender friend?
5. to meet for lunch, drinks, coffee alone with an opposite gender friend?

I think there are many accepted interactions that are asking for trouble, foolish or inconsiderate that all too often end in heartache and there are others that are beyond jealous, controlling and deeply insecure.

My wife and I are very conservative and careful about making the other feel insecure. Its a personal choice for our marriage to be mindful of creating appearances and gossip that can be damaging to the feeling of security and respect.

Am I unenlightened for going out of my way to avoid any question for my wifes imagination to grapple with?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> My wife and I are very conservative and careful about making the other feel insecure. Its a personal choice for our marriage to be mindful of creating appearances and gossip that can be damaging to the feeling of security and respect.
> 
> Am I unenlightened for going out of my way to avoid any question for my wifes imagination to grapple with?


No you are not unenlightened for doing this. In fact you are very enlightened. Caring about your wife feeling secure is a good thing.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I think it depends on the couple...and their insecurities, trust, communication, attitudes, etc....

None of the things listed would be a problem for us. The red flag would come into play if any of those situations were covered in secrecy.


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## timbre (Oct 3, 2011)

I agree. Secrecy is the biggest red flag of them all. I think it is the only red flag.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I agree that secrecy is a big red flag: but disagree it is the ONLY red flag. I think the suggestions above are perceptive. I think it is wise to realise that an EA can start with your spouse still insisting it is "only" friendship yet be open about their relationship with the other person.

My OH insisted and believed that he and the OW were "just" friends. They spent time together talking, laughing, sharing about their lives, and when apart texting, messaging on facebook. Her intentions were clear from the get go. He went into it being friendly ( lack of appropriate boundaries) and got in further than he intended or rwalised. It was only through counselling he realised that had he had and implemented boundaries, this would never have gotten out of hand.

We discussed boundaries in counselling and have similar. For example it is not acceptable to either of us for the other to:

°be alone with someone of the opposite sex with the exception of family and when absolutely necessary at work 
°confide about our relationship to someone of the opposite sex
°text message, call or communicate in any way online with someone of the opposite sex except family
etc.

We have also agreed to make it clear where appropriate that we are in a couple and not looking/not interested and lighthearted ways to communicate this. It makes everything a lot clearer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

I agree totally on the concept of appropriate boundaries. It seems very obvious to me it protects the marriage without going overboard with insecurity or requiring unreasonable sacrifice. 

A bank robber cases out the bank before a plan is finalized to rob the bank. 

An EA develops the same way. Your spouse gets evaluated for availability with subtle questions and observations from someone of the opposite sex that has interest and therefore motive to constantly TEST the level of commitment and weakness that could be exploited. 

If you welcome unbounded access wrapped in the proud banner of feeling secure in your marriage, trusting your spouse alone with those secretly interested in making a run at manipulatiing your spouse, you have let the camel stick his nose under the tent. Is it not a matter of time before they attempt to move all the way in?

It seems to me ALL infidelity is a result of foolishly welcoming unbounded access of a friend of the opposite sex with an unsavory agenda in secret whether it is intentional or not.

I think my wife is sexy as hell and very charming, requiring my guard to be a little more up than if I married a troll. 

She is certainly not conceited and has the common insecurities of a common female allowing her guard to be a tad lower. 

I am certain there are plenty of fish in the sea that would love to make a run for her interest. Naturally I dont coooperate. It seems foolish to stick my head in the sand and ignore the reality that there is always someone on the fringe interested in whats available for the taking without a shred of concern for the wreckage afterwords for everyone else effected.

One of my favorite quotes is "there is a fine line between ignorance and bravery" 

I think the there is also a fine line between feeling secure versus being foolish versus being a totally jealous control freak. 

The bottom line is its a balance of reasonable boundaries recognizing reality and what level of mutual agreement there is between spouses in a healthy marriage.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Unless it is business related, my wife and I also do not allow continuing email or online communications with the opposite sex. I see how common this is to others, and wonder if I am just a case of murphy's law. We have a social media site where I work, also. Many times a personal back and forth friendship has begun to become 'comfortable', as friends or colleagues, my wife or I have started to receive innappropriate comments. I read a local news article for a large metro area that indicated that in a poll of people 35 and under, who had white collar jobs, 85% of them had admitted to online conversations that where equivalent to 'sexting' or just plain 'sexually innapropriate' with some one outside the marriage. So, we decided to be old fashioned here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Who is their priority: you or the friend. I mean both physically, and emotionally.

If they has a choice to call with great news, who gets called first?

The is also the question of sharing trust and secrets. For instance do they talk about intimate events in your marriage, while at the same time your SO hides details they know about the friend? Essentially putting more emotional trust into the friendship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The fact that my wife even makes an opposite gender friend beyond a professional level is my first red flag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Secret passwords to websites, phones etc., GNO/BNO's, high number of texts, phone never out of sight, unexplained absences, coming home late, says we're just friends when asked, vacations with out spouse, gym workouts w/o spouse, team sports w/o spouse, any inappropriate contact, reunions w/o spouse, hostile about privacy


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Glad to read how much common ground and agreement we have in the thread. 

Not a big fan of the "Im secure" badge of pride. Id sooner replace it as a favor with a "Im a fool so be gentle" badge to try and help out. 

Short a lunatic overly jealous control freak, it seems we have reached a respectable level of agreement among level headed, well meaning members. 

Thanks all. I thought it was just me. Im glad to see Im not alone.


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

_*Any*_ time of any kind alone with them
either at work/school/gym/coffee shop/wherever

And you may very well never hear of the time spent together.


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## mssherlock22 (Oct 27, 2011)

I can't express how glad I am to read these posts. I had a recent experience of this & was beginning to wonder if I had some old-fashioned thinking that put me in the wrong. 
I recently found out that my dearly beloved husband of 39 years marriage, who is my life and best friend, had been secretly e-mailing, FB, calling, & meeting for lunch with a woman he works with in a sesonal job. The lunches were not related to work but they were arranged during the year when they weren't working.
He swears that they were just friends with no romantic interest on either side. 
Am I a fool for believing this. 
When I talked to him about this he stated that he would not contact her again except at work.
How can I find any peace & believe him again?


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

mssherlock22 said:


> I can't express how glad I am to read these posts.
> 
> *Feels good to know we are helping others. I am also very pleased we have respectful agreement and common wisdom from considerate members among us*
> 
> ...


He did the right thing. Its an opportunity for you to examone what might be missing in your relationship by asking yourself what he was getting from it. 

Validation, attention, affection, understanding, support, etc. 

Please consider telling him it still hurts even though he thinks it was innocent. Ask him to imagine how he would feel if you did something similar in secret with another man. Tell him you want to be the source for whatever it was he was getting from it and that you loce him. 

That seems like a prettyt good plan. Others are more aggressive and I cant pass judgement on that because I have not been in their situation. My wife and I are happily married and have always had appropriate boundaries in place thus far.

Good luck with all :smthumbup:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

mssherlock22 said:


> I can't express how glad I am to read these posts. I had a recent experience of this & was beginning to wonder if I had some old-fashioned thinking that put me in the wrong.
> I recently found out that my dearly beloved husband of 39 years marriage, who is my life and best friend, had been secretly e-mailing, FB, calling, & meeting for lunch with a woman he works with in a sesonal job. The lunches were not related to work but they were arranged during the year when they weren't working.
> He swears that they were just friends with no romantic interest on either side.
> Am I a fool for believing this.
> ...



Start a thread on the "Coping with Infidelity" forum. ASAP


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

For example, would it be bothersome to you for your spouse 

1. to be at home alone with an opposite gender friend? - _No, but i better no this dude real well. I've been in this situation with some of my gal pals, but my wife knows i'm there, and knows them._
2. to discuss marriage difficulties with an opposite gender friend? - _Discussing OUR marriage difficulties... yes, i'd take an issue with that. That's borderline RED FLAG_
3. to discuss sex with an opposite gender friend? - _Once again, i'd have a BIG problem with this. You've crossed an acceptable boundary once you go there. No gal pal knows my sex life._
4. to coach a youth sport with an opposite gender friend? No.
5. to meet for lunch, drinks, coffee alone with an opposite gender friend? - _Once again, as long as i know the person, and i know she's doing it. No social hanging with dudes i don't know._


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

1. to be at home alone with an opposite gender friend?

Anyone's home alone. Boundary crossed. I would never do this and would consider it a deal breaker for my wife to do so. 

2. to discuss marriage difficulties with an opposite gender friend?

Bad idea. Boundary crossed.

3. to discuss sex with an opposite gender friend?

Bad idea. Boundary crossed.

4. to coach a youth sport with an opposite gender friend?

Coaching is one thing. Coaching with a friend is another thing altogether and carries additional risks. It is not ideal though. Kinda like having an opposite sex personal trainer. I would say boundaries crossed with no other information provided. It depends on the logistics and circumstances but the Coach + friend is a no for either my wife or I. Not saying this cannot work but other firm boundaries better be in place.

5. to meet for lunch, drinks, coffee alone with an opposite gender friend?

Boundaries crossed. These can turn into dates real quick, soi don't risk it. In a group is ok.


But it should be stated that I learned long ago I cannot have close female friends. Having close opposite sex friends leads to all sorts of scenarios and complexities.

In general if you or your spouse are "hanging out alone" with an opposite sex friend you are asking for trouble. Plus as pressures occurr in marriage natural all of a sudden that visit you took over to another woman's house alone last month can become a problem. The perception of a problem can be as damaging as a real problem and be hard to defend why one took the risk. 

Being alone with a person of the opposite sex is a form of isolation from the partner. This reduces Approach Anxiety. Also a woman who cnsents to be alone with another man is showing a great deal of trust and connection with him period. It reminds me of Athol's three day rule for having guests at one's house.

Setting tight boundaries seem appropriate when one considers the rate at whihc affairs apear to be happening. EAs start out for the most part innocently. The ones involved rarely realize that they are crossing vague boundaries. But understanding EAs and having some well thought out boundaries that are far enough away from the brink are a great way to avoid falling into an EA. Nothing is fool proof.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tobio said:


> *I agree that secrecy is a big red flag: but disagree it is the ONLY red flag. I think the suggestions above are perceptive. I think it is wise to realise that an EA can start with your spouse still insisting it is "only" friendship yet be open about their relationship with the other person.*
> 
> My OH insisted and believed that he and the OW were "just" friends. They spent time together talking, laughing, sharing about their lives, and when apart texting, messaging on facebook. Her intentions were clear from the get go. He went into it being friendly ( lack of appropriate boundaries) and got in further than he intended or rwalised. It was only through counselling he realised that had he had and implemented boundaries, this would never have gotten out of hand.
> 
> ...


I did not realize I was in a full blown EA until I was most of the way through withdrawal.
FWIW the way a man beds a married woman is usually by becoming her friend and be a person she can confide in. It is like a kino escalation as boundaries fall in sublte ways until he can start planting the seeds of decent in her marriage.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> I agree totally on the concept of appropriate boundaries. It seems very obvious to me it protects the marriage without going overboard with insecurity or requiring unreasonable sacrifice.
> 
> A bank robber cases out the bank before a plan is finalized to rob the bank.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

tacoma said:


> The fact that my wife even makes an opposite gender friend beyond a professional level is my first red flag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Truth


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tacoma said:


> The fact that my wife even makes an opposite gender friend beyond a professional level is my first red flag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

First let me say that I don't believe in opposite gender friends but if I did here are my answers:


1. to be at home alone with an opposite gender friend?

Major Problem, would have to be Blood related as in my Brother/her brother.


2. to discuss marriage difficulties with an opposite gender friend?
We discuss our issues. Venting about some ish I did is OK but discussing and requesting advice feedback from any friend of any gender is a no no.This goes both ways


3. to discuss sex with an opposite gender friend?
Major Issue



4. to coach a youth sport with an opposite gender friend?
No issue but would be attentive



5. to meet for lunch, drinks, coffee alone with an opposite gender friend?
That's an affair.



I think people tend to live in this world where their marriage is immune to an affair. I saw enough in my time in the military that I know that all marriages can be hit by infidelity. I've seen guys that were best friends, shipmates, and even cousins sleeping with each others wife. Not to mention the crap that goes on during deployment. In my mind, no one is innocent.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Right now my marriage isn't in a good place so it wouldn't be OK for my husband to do anything with the opposite sex. 

It also doesn't help that the women he knows/works with are well known to sleep with married men and have absolutely no problems doing so. He did go to a movie once with a female coworker and that was the last time he did that. When i asked to meet her she said no cause it would be too awkward. Too awkward??? I asked my husband what did she think was going on between them that she was feeling awkward about meeting me. He tends to be friendly towards females and has this belief that they are all innocent. So there will be a big problem if I find out he has been talking about us to them or going out with any of them. I don't put myself in those situations to find out if he would be uncomfortable with it or not. I figure since I don't want him to do those things to me I just won't do them to him.


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

square1 said:


> I figure since I don't want him to do those things to me I just won't do them to him.


Hey what do you know? Thats the golden rule. :smthumbup:


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> Hey what do you know? Thats the golden rule. :smthumbup:



It seems like such a simple rule. But i know so many people who can't follow it.

Whatever you are about to do think how you would feel if your wife/husband did that to you. If you would feel any negative feelings then DONT do it.


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

square1 said:


> Whatever you are about to do think how you would feel if your wife/husband did that to you. If you would feel any negative feelings then DONT do it.


:smthumbup: :iagree: If this was a contest, you just won!


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

The red flag would come into play if any of those situations were covered in secrecy.[/QUOTE]


That is the Big Red Flag for me and my H. He hid talking /texting with the OW for 5 months until I looked at cell phone records. He says there is no "physical attraction" even though he admits to "innocent sexual flirting" ( contradicting I know) . He told me 2 different stories of his NC call to her. (of course while out on the road) so I couldn't hear them. First he said that they would have to back it down to a couple times a month,,, WTF!! Now he says he told her they couldn't talk at all,,, I have been getting lies since the beginning on everything,, changing stories and so on.... And it was a friend from 30 years ago that he has NEVER mentioned to me before. 
So I was blindsided to find out that she knows everything about me/us,,that he let her into "our" life... makes me sick to my stomach.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Entropy is correct, these are really boundaries. Boundaries being violated can become red flags. Red flags are signs of a problem and any of those boundaries listed can become a red flag is done too much or is escalated. 

For me:

1. to be at home alone with an opposite gender friend?

OK.

2. to discuss marriage difficulties with an opposite gender friend?

Not OK.

3. to discuss sex with an opposite gender friend?

Not OK.

4. to coach a youth sport with an opposite gender friend?

OK.

5. to meet for lunch, drinks, coffee alone with an opposite gender friend?

OK.

Of course any of these could become red flags if done too much. It’s all about the baseline for a normal friendship. If I see my wife doing these and anything else with a man when she doesn’t normally do with her girl friends it is a problem. Escalation and overdoing these things is a sign of too much emotional connecting and that is the real problem.

I would also include:

6. Secrecy or hiding of any contact.

Not OK

7. Exceeding typical same sex friend boundaries.

Not OK

8. Prioritizing friends more than marriage and spouse

Not OK.

9. Familiar touching, hugging beyond greetings etc.

Not OK.

One thing my wife and I have realized is that we each get along slightly better with people of the opposite sex and that friendship with the opposite sex is not the problem. The problem is forming attachments that compete with the marriage. With the appropriate boundaries, transparency and a spouse that is aware, then these friendships can be managed and kept safe. 

And yes I do realize the dangers and that these relationships can and do become addictions. And there are certainly preditors looking sex but avoiding half the population is not the solution. The solution is keeping the marriage strong in the first place. This is really the best defense not isolation. 

I would not be the person I am today without the friendships I have had over the years with women including my wife who is my best friend.


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

tacoma said:


> The fact that my wife even makes an opposite gender friend beyond a professional level is my first red flag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Completely and absolutely the correct reaction. One of your duties as a husband is to c0ckblock other men and protect the marriage.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

It always shocks me when I read the threads related to this subject. I have shared my thoughts and experience and will do so again. I for 20 years I worked in industries that were dominated by women. I have many women friends and a couple of mentors. I love them. Because I love them I respect them as well and their relationships just like they respect mine.

Have I been to lunch with them? Not recently. Would I go to lunch with them if I had the opportunity? Hell yes. Would my wife know? Hell yes. Would my wife care? No. Did I take female friends out to dinner when I was in their city visiting halfway across the country? Yes. Did my wife know? Hell yes! Did she care? Absolutely not. 

You see these women really respect my wife. They all know her and know what an incredible person she is and if I ever got the hint they had intentions of coming between us they would no longer be a friend. I knew the boundaries going into the friendships and they are quite aware of my personal standards of morality and integrity so it is not an issue.


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