# Serious question about staying together...



## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

My first question would be why would you stay?
If you have younger kids, I understand. But because you love her/him... Seriously, they sure didn't care about you while being in bed with another!

My second question would be how do you accept such an unacceptable betrayal? What can you possibly say to yourself to make it ok or get over it?

And finally, how do you deal with the triggers, the memories? To this day certain songs, movies, phrases, cars, whatever still take me back there! Maybe because it was ongoing and with a close friend who happens to have my same first name. Do you know how long it took for me to hear my name in bed and have my mind not go to him? It still happens...maybe it's just how my mind works?

My wife had a horrid affair 12 years ago. I have posted my story and said why I stayed and it was pretty good for the most part, but I've learned you can forgive, but you will never forget. There is also no justification or any way to ever be ok with it! Trust me, I've done it all...blamed myself and told myself she was manipulated by him (making her a victim)

The fact is, there is no excuse good enough...NONE!

When someone you are married to and have been faithful to takes off their clothes and has sex with someone else...it's over. They made their choice and it wasn't you. My "opinion" is if someone wants to have sex with another...FINE! Just make a decision to leave and move on...No doing 2 people at the same time...you can lie to yourself or tell yourself whatever you want, but the fact remains...they shared an intimate part of themselves with another while supposedly being "in love" with you, and nothing makes it ok...nothing!

Yes I tried to be alright with this for a lot of years and kept silent, but again..it never went away and was always lurking in the shadows. This kills me because I have an attractive wife and people regularly tell me - Your wife is so beautiful, sweet, cute, awesome..."whatever" on a regular basis..and she is. But then there's the side that has a bad temper and justifies her actions that they don't see. I end up lashing out in anger and I can see the hurt in her eyes. I never brought up the affair, but now that I have finally been honest with myself (and her), and I've come clean about how this has bothered me, it has gottten ugly. She has tried blaming everything and anything else and it's like we are strangers at times.

There's the women who told me she loved me while doing my best friend at the same time for God knows how long until they were caught! It really sucks because I believe she has been faithful ever since. I believe she was confused, and I believe she loves me and is sorry it ever happened, but it did, and it will always be there and the resentment grows. I have tried prayer, therapy, talking with her...and yes I have finally forgiven her, no more anger towards her, just sadness that it has to be over. I will not ever forget and I feel I must leave her. Our kids are grown up, I'm 53, and I have to start over - for me.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Makes sense to me. You have a lot of life left. 

But I don't think you actually ever forgave her. It's not a knock. It's just the way it sounds. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's how you feel. And you can't deny that so don't even try.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Makes sense to me. You have a lot of life left.
> But I don't think you actually ever forgave her. It's not a knock. It's just the way it sounds. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's how you feel. And you can't deny that so don't even try.


I never brought it up in 12 years. Not even once! I should have, but I didn't want to hurt her and our original therapist said we needed to put it behind us and build new memories together...so we had a lot of good times, but it was always there and I silently suffered. Sex was never the same and not because she didn't want it... It was originally all about me getting her off. It became just like masturbation...just getting it over with and finishing and my head caused problems with my "head" at times..... I grew to hate it...

It all finally came out and once I got into therapy on my own, the tears flowed and I relived it all over again, only this time I had to face what really happened and stop lieing to myself. She came clean too about some pretty brutal admissions.. It was the hardest thing I've ever been through and it was like it just happened. If she'd have been there for me it might have been different, but she said "It happened a long time ago, I am no longer the same person and I'm sorry but I can't go back there". I said I've had to go back there too many times over the years and I don't have a choice!

She can just act like it never happened and be an amazing and supportive wife, but I can't act like it never happened...not anymore. It's finally out and it felt amazing to release it and be able to talk about it. As far as forgiving her... I believe I have, but not for her, for me. I had to release the anger and the hurt and it's out...I feel better. I just no longer feel the same towards her. I care, I even love, I just doesn't feel right anymore and it is sad, but it's reality. I feel bad and I just have to keep telling myself she didn't feel bad about me while she was doing my friend at his house, his girlfriends house (also her friend), and even in our own house (but not our bed)... So I have forgiven...but that doesn't make what happened ok, it just allows me to move on and not carry the hate and anger!

I don't know if that makes sense but 9 months of therapy has helped.. and I'm ok


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## hoping4love (Jan 14, 2013)

I have to agree with walkonmars, here - I don't think you ever really forgave her. Which is fine, that is your right.

However, in my opinion - I don't think infidelity is the absolute worse thing that someone can do to their partner. Yes, it hurts, and yes there is pain, and "God, how could they have been so selfish?!" But, I think the worst possible thing someone can do to their spouse is to give up on them. Not in the sense of leaving them after their affair - by all means, if that helps you cope, DO IT. But, I mean, in the sense that you forget who you know they really are - even if their actions don't prove it. 

I may be too sentimental or mildly delusional, but that is my opinion.


You can read my blog at: My Journey of Self Discovery: Introduction.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

hoping4love said:


> I have to agree with walkonmars, here - I don't think you ever really forgave her. Which is fine, that is your right.
> 
> However, in my opinion - I don't think infidelity is the absolute worse thing that someone can do to their partner. Yes, it hurts, and yes there is pain, and "God, how could they have been so selfish?!" *But, I think the worst possible thing someone can do to their spouse is to give up on them.* Not in the sense of leaving them after their affair - by all means, if that helps you cope, DO IT. *But, I mean, in the sense that you forget who you know they really are - even if their actions don't prove it*.
> 
> ...


Sorry... I finally took my rose colored glasses off. 
I believe that as soon as your spouse breaks their marital vows and lets another man stick his d*$k inside her (and not just once - but ongoing) especially while doing you at the same time and saying she loves you that she has already given up on you! Yeah later on when she realizes what she's losing she might change her mind but the damage is done! If she was capable of this level of deceit once, plus you have caught her in other non-related lies... but that's probably just selfish me?

*And forgetting who they "really are"? Really? lol*...*It turns out that sometimes you don't know who they really are.* I want to believe that she loves me and could never do this again, except she was so good at her lies that this went on right under my nose for months (maybe a year or more?) So yes, we've had a lot of good times and good years...but times were good then, some of the best times we ever had, and this happened without me knowing so if she was capable then, how can I ever really know now?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

S4E said:


> ...our original therapist said we needed to put it behind us and build new memories together...


Worst advice ever. That's why many on these boards caution about going to a MC that is not schooled and experienced in infidelity. So this idiot's basic advice was to rugsweep the affair until it festered enough to get into the marriage's bloodstream and poison the whole relationship. 

Not your fault. I believe it's better to see NO MC than an incompetent one. It's an industry and there are too many hanging up a shingle with no qualm about parceling out poor or even harmful advice. 

I take back what I said about forgiveness. It looks like you have a good handle on that. So, did you say you are absolutely moving on or are you just contemplating it? 

If you move on, are you amenable to dating your now wife sometime in the future or are all bets off?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am with my husband, he cheated in 2009-10, I caught him, I kicked him out, we're reconciling. You can read my story thru the link in my sig if you like.

Reconciliation is not for the faint of heart.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You never dealt with it, it all got rugsweeped. Now she doesn't want to deal as it's all in the past... for her.
She realizes her affair permeated everything, the whole marriage since then. If she's honest with herself she knows she destroyed you, she changed you, she got an ally to put it all under the carpet and she was glad back then.
Now... maybe she wishes you guys deal with it in a different way back then but she rejects going there anymore.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I am with my husband, he cheated in 2009-10, I caught him, I kicked him out, we're reconciling. You can read my story thru the link in my sig if you like.
> 
> Reconciliation is not for the faint of heart.


Trust me I KNOW! My wife's affair was in 1999/2000 and we have been together all these years. I just don't think I want to live the rest of my life knowing the person I'm with was capable of this type of deceit and betrayal. I believe it's a character issue. If you want to be with someone else, just leave!


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## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

S4E said:


> My first question would be why would you stay?
> If you have younger kids, I understand. But because you love her/him... Seriously, they sure didn't care about you while being in bed with another!


She didn't care about the kids either, while she was screwing POSOM


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## goodwife4 (Jan 7, 2013)

its a very hard thing to do , bit if for one instant i thought i would feel like you do 10 years from now i would walk away from my hubby and that would be it.
i know that only after 2 years from his confession of EA it is a battle but you have to get it all out, not just pretend it didnt happen or otherwise it will eat you up///
and it sounds like it has done that 

it was very bad advice to say.. lets pretend this didnt happen ?!
you have to deal with it before you can start to move on

good luck


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Worst advice ever. That's why many on these boards caution about going to a MC that is not schooled and experienced in infidelity. So this idiot's basic advice was to rugsweep the affair until it festered enough to get into the marriage's bloodstream and poison the whole relationship.
> 
> Not your fault. I believe it's better to see NO MC than an incompetent one. It's an industry and there are too many hanging up a shingle with no qualm about parceling out poor or even harmful advice.
> 
> ...


Thank you...and yes - Worse advise ever! It gets worse, we were told in order to move on I had to take some blame in what happened as I must have done something to push her away, he was manipulative, and I basically told myself she was a victim. That's how I got by! I was told I had to put it behind me because everytime I brought it up it was like sticking a knife into a wound and it would ruin her self -esteem (what about mine?) We had to put it behind us, build new memories and never talk about it again! I didn't... 

I was never able to get angry either because I caught them away on a cruise together (she was with her sisters and he paid for it and went along - another long story). I couldn't get angry because when I finally reached her on the ships phone and told her what I knew she started denying it. Once I told her I knew and it was verified, she started crying and said she wanted to see what it was like waking uo next to him and when she rolled over in the morning and it was him and not me she freaked out and asked him to leave and he flew home from the island (which he did) Not because of anything other than he was trying to cover his ass. He had the nerve to call me and say he'd been on a business trip in Mexico and asked how I was doing?!! 

When she finally called back, she was so upset she said she thought about jumping ship and ending it and she was crying staring into the water and a guy came up and talked her down. So instead of being angry with her, I had to grieve on my own all week while I worried if she was gonna jump ship! When she got home I just begged her to stay and did whatever it took because I didn't want her running to him! Yes, it was all handled WRONG! No wonder I'm effed up!

After 30 years we have a lot in common, but all this is eating at me. I want to seperate and see if I really miss her when I don't have the guilt of seeing her and her wanting to do things with me all the time. I just want to fly solo and see how it feels? I would not be opposed to dating, but she is outgoing and flirtatious by nature so I believe part of this is also a "test" to see if she stays faithful, or a wild streak comes out and she moves on..... It's a gamble, but that "inner voice" has been telling me I need to do this for far too long...


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Acabado said:


> You never dealt with it, it all got rugsweeped. Now she doesn't want to deal as it's all in the past... for her.
> She realizes her affair permeated everything, the whole marriage since then. If she's honest with herself she knows she destroyed you, she changed you, she got an ally to put it all under the carpet and she was glad back then.
> Now... maybe she wishes you guys deal with it in a different way back then but she rejects going there anymore.


:iagree: Exactly!!! This is all dead on true!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

goodwife4 said:


> its a very hard thing to do , bit if for one instant i thought i would feel like you do 10 years from now i would walk away from my hubby and that would be it.
> i know that only after 2 years from his confession of EA it is a battle but you have to get it all out, not just pretend it didnt happen or otherwise it will eat you up///
> and it sounds like it has done that
> 
> ...


I know some people say an EA is every bit as bad, but I would disagree. Sometimes people share things they shouldn't or develop feelings that they know are wrong, but we can't always control our feelings...only how we react to them! I wish it had been just emotional, I wish it had been a drunken 1 night mistake, I wish she came to me and confessed as she broke it off! But I know it only stopped because I caught her and made her realize he was the POS snake that I believed he was!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> Trust me I KNOW! My wife's affair was in 1999/2000 and we have been together all these years. I just don't think I want to live the rest of my life knowing the person I'm with was capable of this type of deceit and betrayal. I believe it's a character issue. If you want to be with someone else, just leave!


Your foundation was built on a forced falsehood. IMO, the problem you have is 12 years of weight to remove and it might be too late.


S4E said:


> I know some people say an EA is every bit as bad, but I would disagree. Sometimes people share things they shouldn't or develop feelings that they know are wrong, but we can't always control our feelings...only how we react to them! I wish it had been just emotional, I wish it had been a drunken 1 night mistake, I wish she came to me and confessed as she broke it off! But I know it only stopped because I caught her and made her realize he was the POS snake that I believed he was!


Oh an EA is just as bad, in my book, because they are the gateway to a PA; unless it was a ONS.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Your posts always brings me to tears S4E.

This is the danger alot of people who R have to deal with.

XX years down the road, sometimes something just snaps and the BS wakes up and says, WTF, I settled for this....

My worst fear that I live with everyday that my wife will one day wake up and realize that she made the wrong choice.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> unless it was a ONS.


Not sure what ONS is? NS= non sexual? Yes I guess I could agree... But if it was truly non-sexual and just emotional support and there was an attraction or feelings developed, but you resisted rather than going sexual with it, to me that would be different. I just believe once sex is involved, there is no going back - a point of no return so to speak... but we all have different boundaries, and we all can accept and tolerate different things...I know that's a given!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

ONS = one night stand


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I believe your wife is very manipulative and played the victim role when she got caught. My guess is that she is also a drama queen and I doubt her story that she was going to harm herself. She got caught by you and had to race home for damage control

She destroyed the marriage and the fact that she was never really the remorseful wife and put the blame on you says it all. There seems also to have been no consequences to her actions. She seems to have very little empathy toward you. If you had engaged in such humiliating disrespectful behavior toward her my guess she would have been at a lawyer's immediately.

The way you describe your wife is that she very attractive on the outside but quite unattractive on the inside. You are a young man at 53 and have lots of living and life to do. Do not accept any blame. It is your right to live the rest of your life the way you wish and not to spend it with a manipulative and truly down deep non remorseful life. You deserve better my friend. Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> Not sure what ONS is? NS= non sexual?


One night Stand. 



> Yes I guess I could agree... But if it was truly non-sexual and just emotional support and there was an attraction or feelings developed, but you resisted rather than going sexual with it, to me that would be different.


Personally, I think you are mixing emotional support with an Emotional affair. Support, IMO, would be I know you are going through problems If you need to talk I'm here. Saying you love them, hope for them, share their dreams, and want to meet wouldn't exactly be avoiding sexual contact. I wouldn't call that emotional support either, but we may have different definitions. 


> I know it only stopped because I caught her and made her realize he was the POS snake that I believed he was!


Minus the snake part, this is what still bothers me and as far as I know, no sex was involved. 





> I just believe once sex is involved, there is no going back - a point of no return so to speak... but we all have different boundaries, and we all can accept and tolerate different things...I know that's a given!


We will kindly disagree because EA and PA are on the same side of the coin for me. For me, it is a difference of millimeters and opportunity. I feel like I'm hijacking I'll leave you alone.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

CH said:


> Your posts always brings me to tears S4E.
> 
> This is the danger alot of people who R have to deal with.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much what happened, I snapped. When I was pulling away sexually as I had many times (too tired - don't feel good - worked too long - whatever) She knew I had a good friend at work and she accused me of having an affair. This was far from the truth, but she wouldn't accept it and came right out with - How long have you been effing her? I told her why I was really pulling away and how sometimes it just gets hard with the triggers and the memories but I was always told not to say anything and after this long I didn't know how to say anything and I didn't want to hurt her but I wasn't effing anyone and I'd never even held another girls hand in 30 years! She couldn't accept that it could still bother me and said bullsh*t, you're having an affair and if it's not a PA, it's an EA and it's just as bad!

That my friend was when I SNAPPED! I remember the moment! I actually said until I stick my ---- in someone, you have nothing to say...It just killed me that I gave her trust for all those years since the affair, she could go dancing, she made her living cutting hair with a 75% male clientele, I didn't question her, and yet me - the guy who'd been through hell and had never even held another girls hand, no lunch dates, no drinks, nothing and she wasn't going to give me that same respect or trust! I was pissed!

The good thing is it opened my wound and I finally dealt with it. And after almost 2 years of living hell, she went and got her GED, and she's seeing a therapist who has told her she is wrong, she is manipulative, and is asking her questions like what has your husband done that you don't trust him - making her think. It is only because of all this that there may be a future but I still feel I need to leave and see what she does...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Good lord your first therapist was an enabler. Holy crap.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

CH said:


> Your posts always brings me to tears S4E.
> 
> This is the danger alot of people who R have to deal with.
> 
> ...


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

S4E said:


> Not sure what ONS is? NS= non sexual? Yes I guess I could agree... But if it was truly non-sexual and just emotional support and there was an attraction or feelings developed, but you resisted rather than going sexual with it, to me that would be different. I just believe once sex is involved, there is no going back - a point of no return so to speak... but we all have different boundaries, and we all can accept and tolerate different things...I know that's a given!


EAs can be highly sexual. 

My wifes EA they shared pictures and sexted often. I had the misfortune of reading a lot of it including one statement by OM that he slept great after getting off twice from her. The only reason they didn't F is because they never had the opportunity.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> One night Stand.
> We will kindly disagree because EA and PA are on the same side of the coin for me. For me, it is a difference of millimeters and opportunity. I feel like I'm hijacking I'll leave you alone.


No worries, I appreciate the input. This has been a long long journey for me and I have grown from it and I am a stronger person for finally having faced it.

Don't worry about the hijacking,,, I'll even have a private discussion on the EA/PA comments. I understand and can agree to a point... but after what I endured knowing that there were many days that she probably had us both in the same day with no condoms and oral (69) it sickens me, and there were other "new" things that she wanted to try that I know she learned from him.... yeah...sex (making love?) has never been the same!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Ovid said:


> EAs can be highly sexual.
> 
> My wifes EA they shared pictures and sexted often. I had the misfortune of reading a lot of it including one statement by OM that he slept great after getting off twice from her. The only reason they didn't F is because they never had the opportunity.


:iagree:

OK, I stand corrected! To me mutual masturbation is cheating for sure! I guess I am confusing emotional support (maybe even with some attachment) with smething very different from what i was thinking...I am naive I guess...my mind didn't go there!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> No worries, I appreciate the input. This has been a long long journey for me and I have grown from it and I am a stronger person for finally having faced it.
> 
> Don't worry about the hijacking,,, I'll even have a private discussion on the EA/PA comments. I understand and can agree to a point... but after what I endured knowing that there were many days that she probably had us both in the same day with no condoms and oral (69) it sickens me, and there were other "new" things that she wanted to try that I know she learned from him.... yeah...sex (making love?) has never been the same!


Yeah, I agree with you on this point. I always feel I am rationalizing that my wife's EA is equal to a PA and then someone points this out. I'm like "yeah, I'd be ready to kill at that point!"

12 years makes you a good guy in my book. I hope it works, but you have to do what keeps you healthy and sane.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

To S4E
You have tried to make your marriage work for 12 years. *You needed help from the beginning from your wife and professionals; they both failed you.* The actions that went on for your attempt at a 12 year R were wrong in so many ways.

You were giving her the benefit of the doubt; in return you got accused of being a cheater. In addition as you have stated:“She has tried blaming everything and anything else”
“Justifies her actions”

You have indicated that you do not feel that your wife has a lot of remorse. So how does that affect you? Your words say it well; you said *“the resentment grows”*

If this is accurate and is still going on I sure think that you need to do something different. Your statement below is excellent IMO.



> “I want to separate and see if I really miss her when I don't have the guilt of seeing her and her wanting to do things with me all the time. I just want to fly solo and see how it feels? I would not be opposed to dating, but she is outgoing and flirtatious by nature so I believe part of this is also a *"test" to see if she stays faithful, or a wild streak comes out and she moves on.*.... It's a gamble, but that "inner voice" has been telling me I need to do this for far too long...”


Your wife needs to be 100% driven to help heal you instead of justifying herself and accusing you, an innocent man, of cheating. What she has done is poison to a relationship.

Your separation may even help your wife get her attitude and actions on the right tract.* However, the main thing is that you feel that the separation is best for you and that is most important. You have given an effort for 12 years and you owe nothing to anybody.* Who knows it maybe possible that you and your wife may even have a better relationship in the future?

Final thought; do what is right for you, get yourself in a condition that you will be OK with her or without her. It appears at the moment that you are about to explode; put your plan into action NOW!!! *The only thing that you have to loose is your resentment.*


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Why don't you just move out and not deal with her for awhile??


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

She is probably right, you are beginning or in an emotional affair. I read a bunch of threads, but IIRC yours correctly she was in one herself and would know ALL of the signs.

I am not saying you are wrong to be angry or that they are equal. Just giving you something to ponder about her irrational reaction. She knows, intimately, how an EA starts and how it leads to a PA. I bet, she saw all of the signs and undeservedly freaked out when she had no room to talk.


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## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

S4E,

What made you decide to reconcile with your wife instead of filing for divorce?


This sounds like Post traumatic stress disorder which happened to manifest itself years later.


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## Vrs (Jan 23, 2013)

It's interesting because statistically the offended party usually wants to know *the details* and the one who cheated wants to avoid detail at all cost. They just want it to be over and behind them and go on like it never happened. But your story shows you how much you need closure. You never got to process it and get it out of your system.

What you do is up to you. But if you just leave her and don't resolve it all in your own heart and mind you'll just carry all that pain into any future relationships. According to Divorce 360 "in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce." That's pretty high. The reason is the problems they thought they left behind went with them into the new relationship. In your case you'd go into it having serious trust issues and fears about what "is" happening or what "may" happen.

There are no easy answers, but there are huge rewards ahead of you if you'll work this stuff out and get it behind you - one way or another. The person you'll become in the process will enable you to have a good relationship with your current wife, or, a better chance for a good relationship with someone else in the future.

Best wishes!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Vrs said:


> There are no easy answers, but there are huge rewards ahead of you if you'll work this stuff out and get it behind you - one way or another. The person you'll become in the process will enable you to have a good relationship with your current wife, or, a better chance for a good relationship with someone else in the future.
> 
> Best wishes!


We must be reading two different threads. :scratchhead:

Those numbers don't reflect a 12 year reconciliation attempt. He isn't "just walking away" if he chooses to end the marriage twelve years later. Listening to his story he already did what you described, tried moving on, engaged in therapist prescribed resolution and his reward was an affair accusation and a bunch of heartache.


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## Vrs (Jan 23, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> We must be reading two different threads. :scratchhead:
> 
> Those numbers don't reflect a 12 year reconciliation attempt. He isn't "just walking away" if he chooses to end the marriage twelve years later. Listening to his story he already did what you described, tried moving on, engaged in therapist prescribed resolution and his reward was an affair accusation and a bunch of heartache.


Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I thought from what I read he'd "endured it" for 12 years, but never really worked on it to bring about closure. Instead it just kept festering with no working it out between them. There's a difference.

(Just re-read. The final paragraph says it like you have it. Not sure why it took 12 years to get there.)


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

My first question would be why would you stay?

*Because he chose to stay too. He wants to work on us and our family. It is only affair to date. One strike, not two or three.*

If you have younger kids, I understand. But because you love her/him... Seriously, they sure didn't care about you while being in bed with another!

*No you are right he completely disrespected me. He took a chance at losing his family. But his only saving grace was the fact that we have kids and he is a great father to them.*

My second question would be how do you accept such an unacceptable betrayal? 

*If you cannot accept the reason why it became an option then you will never accept the affair was possible. I have said he was valid for the affair, but I understand my short comings in the marriage leading up to it.*

What can you possibly say to yourself to make it ok or get over it?

*I know that it was ultimately a flaw in his character. And that he made a mistake, because that is what it truly was. He is now remorseful and understands the pain it has brought me.*

And finally, how do you deal with the triggers, the memories? 

*They ease over time.*

To this day certain songs, movies, phrases, cars, whatever still take me back there! Maybe because it was ongoing and with a close friend who happens to have my same first name. Do you know how long it took for me to hear my name in bed and have my mind not go to him? It still happens...maybe it's just how my mind works?

*Did you ever truly address the affair. Or did you try to just push through it. FYI...I gave the MOW a nickname because we share the same first name. And I don't let him call me the pet names he called her.*


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Vrs said:


> Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I thought from what I read he'd "endured it" for 12 years, but never really worked on it to bring about closure. Instead it just kept festering with no working it out between them. There's a difference.
> 
> (Just re-read. The final paragraph says it like you have it. Not sure why it took 12 years to get there.)


Sorry, I forget people just read the OP and respond. He has another thread and explains in further detail the work he has done in later posts in this one.



> And finally, how do you deal with the triggers, the memories?
> 
> They ease over time.


12 years later, I hope you'll understand if he laughs at you.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

OP, i'vr been following your story form the start. my question is- WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

it's obvious you still hold a lot of resentment over how the affair was handled.

it's obvious thoughts of her betrayal consume your mind. 

it's obvious no matter how much you try, you don't love your wife in the same way.

S4E..... it's obvious you're UNHAPPY!


i read your other thread concerning your "friend." you were ready to jump ship, if this woman would've reciprocated your advances..... you'd be right there with her. i agree with her(friend) the friendship was highly inappropriate given that you were/are still married. you were gonna take a page from your wife and become that which you despise the most- A CHEATER. 


i say get your divorce and start livin' a better life..... a clean slate, as you've said. you've already lost a couple of years pondering this decision. 

DO IT, ALREADY! LIVE!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Why don't you just move out and not deal with her for awhile??


Finances...My parents have both passed on. I will not stay with my kids and put them in the middle. My brothers and sister have all moved out of state...no real close friends I can move in with. (This stuff is all easier when you're younger). We might need to sell our house but a lot needs to be completed before putting it up for sale...(I've started). Also, because we have a family business (hair salon) and we owe back taxes, I am working with an accountant to get that issue behind us...So again - no extra money. When warmer weather gets here, I might stay in a vehicle (van/camper) for awhile? I run facilities at a large hospital based fitness center. I'm on call 24/7 and am there all different hours..We have showers, a kitchen, and anything else I'd need...So right now I'm just trying to get things done at home and waiting for Spring...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> Finances...My parents have both passed on. I will not stay with my kids and put them in the middle. My brothers and sister have all moved out of state...no real close friends I can move in with. (This stuff is all easier when you're younger). We might need to sell our house but a lot needs to be completed before putting it up for sale...(I've started). Also, because we have a family business (hair salon) and we owe back taxes, I am working with an accountant to get that issue behind us...So again - no extra money. When warmer weather gets here, I might stay in a vehicle (van/camper) for awhile? I run facilities at a large hospital based fitness center. I'm on call 24/7 and am there all different hours..We have showers, a kitchen, and anything else I'd need...So right now I'm just trying to get things done at home and waiting for Spring...


Damn this is bad! 12 years vs a few months? Spend more time at the gym and with the kids, a few more months is nothing compared to the heavy lifting you have done so far.


Sorry, how old are your kids again?


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She is probably right, you are beginning or in an emotional affair. I read a bunch of threads, but IIRC yours correctly she was in one herself and would know ALL of the signs.
> 
> I am not saying you are wrong to be angry or that they are equal. Just giving you something to ponder about her irrational reaction. She knows, intimately, how an EA starts and how it leads to a PA. I bet, she saw all of the signs and undeservedly freaked out when she had no room to talk.


Again, all true and you seem very wise to research before you replied...thank you!

I would say I developed an unhealthy attraction to someone who just thought of me as a friend. In therapy I figured out what happened and why and it never went beyond a "one sided emotional attachment". 

I became attached because this "friend" and her and her husband had gone out together with my wife and I on several occasions and we worked together so we obviously talked. One day at work she threw me for a loop when she told me she was getting a divorce. I asked why and she said that over the course of her 8 year marriage her husband has had multiple affairs, she found out of another one and just couldn't do it any longer. 

In my mind I thought 2 things - 
1) Here's this attractive and intelligent woman who believes in being faithful in a marriage and her husband can't keep it in his pants! Why? 
2) I have always had questions about how my wife could do what she did with my best friend while we are all hanging out together and never really got answers and who does this kind of sh*t anyway?
And there was the common bond...

I ended up talking to her about what I'd been through and how I never really got over it...I just learned how to lie to myself to "justify it" and make her the victim, but I knew inside she was the aggressor...I just wouldn't let myself believe it.

Her advice was - Your situation is so different than mine. You have been married 30 yrs, this happened a long time ago, and as far as you know she's been faithful since. You have kids together and a lot of history. I think you should go to counciling and try to figure this out, and the best advise I could give you is be honest with yourself. I asked her what she meant by that, and she said you'll figure it out...

That "be honest with yourself" rang in my head non-stop for what seemed like forever. I couldn't figure it out, and I couldn't make it go away. What I've come to learn is I was honest with myself about a lot of things. I lied to myself about her role in the affair so I could justify it and try to make it ok. I lied to myself about my true feelings for my wife because after that long yes I loved her, but I don't feel it's enough or even the right kind of love. It's a caring love without passion. It's toxic in a lot of ways as I know she's never really trusted me even though I thought I'd given her trust. But yes I lied to myself about that too...I didn't really trust her, I just knew that no matter what I tried to do - if she was going to cheat, she could, she had, and it happened right under my very nose! I no longer tell myself lies.

Another part of "be honest with yourself" was that I did develop feelings for my friend. When my wife called her at work one day and said "How long have you been effing my husband?" She was truly blown away. I panicked and went to work to apologize as NOTHING had ever even remotely happened between us... NOTHING and this was my bosses assistant and I was concerned for my job! She asked me point blank "Where is this coming from?" I had to fess up and I said after this many years my wife knows me better than anyone and I guess it's obvious to her that I have stronger feelings for you than I should have as a friend and I'm sorry! I went on to say that we can't always control our feelings, only how we react to them and I hope I've never acted inappropriately. She said "Oh my God, I feel like I should call her and apologize, but I didn't do anything, and as far as I know, neither did you." I avoided her for a couple of days but we had to work together so when I did see her, I again said I was sorry and that I would do my best to keep all communication professional. She said don't even worry about it... I'm ok as long as you are and that is in the past, today is a new day...and that was it.

We continued on being friends and coworkers and my wife obviously didn't like it...She tried, but she was always very jealous and possesive and I had always backed down to her demands. Meaning we'd go out and she could dance or be outgoing and flirtatious around anyone, but if I even talked to a slightly attractive female she could go off the deep end, not every time, but when she did it could get ugly so I was always on guard. This time I drew the line - I finally stood up to her and said I'm not doing anything wrong, we work together and are friends, and if you have a problem with it it's your problem! I know this was wrong because I had "feelings" but it felt good to finally tell her how it really felt, draw the line, and stand up for myself!

I started therapy and if she had only tried to accept her role and help me through it I think things would be better. But she continued to blame all of our problems on my "friend" and our "EA" instead of taking any blame herself. It got very ugly on several occasions and then the next day she would always try to act like all was wonderful again? I did learn in therapy how I developed the attachment - this was the person who was there for me when all of these repressed feelings finally came out, my wife wasn't she couldn't deal with it and tried blaming anyone and anything else. Instead of acting like a wh*re, or saying youI deserve better, she acted like a true friend, or the voice of reason, and she never once told me you should leave. If I ever said anything even slightly suggestive (and I'm ashamed to say, I have) she would always say - WE ARE FRIENDS - BUDDIES get it! So I also respected her...something I had lost for my wife...

She moved over 2000 miles away 1 1/2 years ago. We rarely talk anymore, we occasionally text, and when she was recently here to help her daughter move, I only saw her once for about 45 minutes when we met for coffee...not one time did we ever meet for lunch, dinner, drinks, anything outside of work unless my wife and other coworkers or friends were involved. 

So I told my wife "If I'm having an emotional affair, it's a 1 sided non-sexual EA, and I'm ok with that!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Silverlining said:


> S4E,
> 
> What made you decide to reconcile with your wife instead of filing for divorce?
> 
> ...


When this happened 12 yrs ago I was a different person. I watched this "friend" slowly buying his way into my family. When I found them on the cruise together I believe I was in shock...and then after our conversation I was genuinely worried that my wife and the mother of our 4 children might jump ship. So when she finally got home, we cried, I felt we had to tell everyone because they would all wonder why we were no longer hanging with the other couple "our best friends" who we had shared everything with (more than I realized) for several years. I did learn that that was also my way of punishing her and I stopped it. But my boys were younger, we were tied together in a small business, I loved her and wanted it to work. I also believe that this "friend" had taken enough from me, and I was not going to let him win by taking my family!

I researched PTSD and I do believe I did go through that while letting out and dealing with the repressed feelings. I actually relived some parts of it and remembered details that I apparently had forgotten... This was all a necessary part of my healing and I am a stronger person today!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Vrs said:


> It's interesting because statistically the offended party usually wants to know *the details* and the one who cheated wants to avoid detail at all cost. They just want it to be over and behind them and go on like it never happened. But your story shows you how much you need closure. You never got to process it and get it out of your system.
> 
> What you do is up to you. But if you just leave her and don't resolve it all in your own heart and mind you'll just carry all that pain into any future relationships. According to Divorce 360 "in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce." That's pretty high. The reason is the problems they thought they left behind went with them into the new relationship. *In your case you'd go into it having serious trust issues and fears about what "is" happening or what "may" happen.*There are no easy answers, but there are huge rewards ahead of you if you'll work this stuff out and get it behind you - one way or another. *The person you'll become in the process will enable you to have a good relationship with your current wife*, or, a better chance for a good relationship with someone else in the future.
> 
> Best wishes!


Thank you,
I may be wrong but I don't believe I would carry it over into future relationships? I'm smart enough to know that the new person I'm seeing did not do this to me. I think I'd welcome the "clean slate"...

I have become a stronger person but I'm not sure it will ever allow me to have a good relationship with my current wife...what she did in my mind was too deep and unforgiveable! That's why I started this thread. How does someone, anyone...ever get over this and move on? How can you ever make yourself be ok with something like this? How can you stay with someone who is capable of having sex with your best friend during the day and then letting you have sex (including oral) with them later on in the same day? I don't care if dhe's changed, it's morals and character...Now that I've faced it I'm disgusted and yet we have many years of good times as well, so I will be forever confused...I know this and that's the only reason I feel it will never work...and that sucks!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

That is disgusting I'm surprised you stayed that long, time for you to heal. All the best.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> My first question would be why would you stay?
> 
> *Because he chose to stay too. He wants to work on us and our family. It is only affair to date. One strike, not two or three.*
> 
> ...


Thank you for your honest answers and I respect you for your decisions. I apologize for I am bitter right now...

I would disagree on one point...although it may have ended up being a "mistake" after the fact, before it happens an affair is never a mistake, IT IS A CHOICE! A selfish choice yes, but still a choice.

Triggers do ease over time, but some never go away. My wife has an older female friend who's husband had an affair early in their marriage. She said they get along great but to this day they can be out enjoying dinner or a movie and something triggers her memory and she will lash out. She feels bad but she said it will always be there! I too lash out at my wife and am snappy at times for no reason. I don't want this for her and I for the rest of our lives. Although I know we have love for each other...it's become toxic. My anology has been - you can have an awesome pot of stew, but put one rancid vegetable or piece of meat in it and it ruins the whole pot! That is where I'm stuck...I love her, but I can't keep doing this...


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Damn this is bad! 12 years vs a few months? Spend more time at the gym and with the kids, a few more months is nothing compared to the heavy lifting you have done so far.
> 
> 
> Sorry, how old are your kids again?


Kids are all adults now... 32 and 31 yr old daughters (1 is married with no kids, 1 is unmarried with 3) 25 and 28 yr old sons (1 married with no kids and 1 is engaged with 1)

3 of the 4 have come to me and said Dad you were always there for us and for mom, we know what you went through and can tell your not happy...Mom will be ok, take care of you,

And then my oldest son says - I just think your going through a mid-life crisis, but do whatever you gotta do. I asked him if he'd stayn if his wife ever cheated and with out hesitation, he said hell no!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

S4E said:


> Kids are all adults now... 32 and 31 yr old daughters (1 is married with no kids, 1 is unmarried with 3) 25 and 28 yr old sons (1 married with no kids and 1 is engaged with 1)
> 
> 3 of the 4 have come to me and said Dad you were always there for us and for mom, we know what you went through and can tell your not happy...Mom will be ok, take care of you,
> 
> And then my oldest son says - I just think your going through a mid-life crisis, but do whatever you gotta do. I asked him if he'd stayn if his wife ever cheated and with out hesitation, he said hell no!


Wow well there you go another case of just how much the kids know what's really going on.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

S4E said:


> I never brought it up in 12 years. Not even once! I should have, but I didn't want to hurt her and our original therapist said we needed to put it behind us and build new memories together...so we had a lot of good times, but it was always there and I silently suffered. Sex was never the same and not because she didn't want it... It was originally all about me getting her off. It became just like masturbation...just getting it over with and finishing and my head caused problems with my "head" at times..... I grew to hate it...
> 
> It all finally came out and once I got into therapy on my own, the tears flowed and I relived it all over again, only this time I had to face what really happened and stop lieing to myself. She came clean too about some pretty brutal admissions.. It was the hardest thing I've ever been through and it was like it just happened. If she'd have been there for me it might have been different, but she said "It happened a long time ago, I am no longer the same person and I'm sorry but I can't go back there". I said I've had to go back there too many times over the years and I don't have a choice!
> 
> ...


Seems pretty sensible to me. I just wanted to answer what I think the reason is for the section I emboldened. I have thought about this since my XW cheated as well and I haven't been able to forgive her. I don't think I ever will, but who knows, miracles do happen. Yeah, ahuh. Sorry for getting off track.

I believe all her memories were "good" when it comes to the affair. They have to be because of the chemical released in the brain. These chemicals continued to make her feel good and cause a different type of feeling from the feelings we get after two years or so of being together. There is an excitement with the beginning of a new relationship, even if it goes against our nature. 

Sometimes I wonder if the best possible solution would be to go out there sometime after recovering from the initial harm and have an affair of your own? I know it's crazy, but it is something I have been considering. That way, you would have your own good memories to fall back on and would do so each time you are confronted with issues about her affair. This would allow you to detach and address the situation in the marriage you are trying to save with rational thinking.

I've been wrong before, plenty. Just food for thought.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> OP, i'vr been following your story form the start. my question is- WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
> 
> it's obvious you still hold a lot of resentment over how the affair was handled.
> 
> ...


All very true except your 1 paragraph! I was ready to "jump ship", still want to but I don't know how to do it knowing it will hurt my wife and change my family forever - holidays, weddings, you name it. I reach deep inside and say she sure wasn't worried about hurting me! But that's not how I am, never was, never will be! 

Had she reciprocated my advances would I have had an affair and ran off with her? You say yes - I know me and I say NO. To my wife and kids, She would then forever be the woman who broke up my marriage. I wouldn't do that to her, to me, or to my family. Would I hope to meet someone more like her down the road? I'd be lieing if I said no.. But yes, at times I did act inappropriately (always in a joking manner) and I did not like the person I was becoming. My wife deserved better, she deserves someone who is in to her like she claims to be into me and I know it... I am human, but I also know right from wrong and I maybe crossed a line or 2, but again...I never went out, it never once got sexual, and I just enjoyed having a good supportive friend.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

S4E said:


> All very true except your 1 paragraph! I was ready to "jump ship", still want to but I don't know how to do it knowing it will hurt my wife and change my family forever - holidays, weddings, you name it. I reach deep inside and say she sure wasn't worried about hurting me! But that's not how I am, never was, never will be!


You're worried about her feelings when it sounds like she couldn't have cared less about yours (not to mention your family) and in some ways she hasn't changed. 

Your family was changed forever because of what your wife did. Period.

It sounds like you're making rationalizations to stay, which is perfectly normal. But at the end of the day it won't solve any of your problems. And are you willing to be in an unhappy marriage for the rest of your life because you'll have to deal with some growing pains for a time if you divorce her??


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Seems pretty sensible to me. I just wanted to answer what I think the reason is for the section I emboldened. I have thought about this since my XW cheated as well and I haven't been able to forgive her. I don't think I ever will, but who knows, miracles do happen. Yeah, ahuh. Sorry for getting off track.
> 
> I believe all her memories were "good" when it comes to the affair. They have to be because of the chemical released in the brain. These chemicals continued to make her feel good and cause a different type of feeling from the feelings we get after two years or so of being together. There is an excitement with the beginning of a new relationship, even if it goes against our nature.
> 
> ...


I too have thought about this, but I am seriously a 1 woman man. If I met someone else and there was that spark, I still could not have "an affair" without leaving my wife first. I know this about me.. That's part of why I feel I need to leave. I would like to be with someone else and have a fresh start, but I know that if it happened while I was married it would never last. It would be a relationship built on a flawed foundation. I am not interested in just pursueing someone for sex, and I'm guessing if I did have sex with another woman my guilt wouldn't allow me to go back with my wife anyway so what would be the point?

I have said to my wife "If I had an affair you'd probably be happy because then we'd be even, but it's not going to happen. She has said she doesn't think she'd be able to deal with it if she found out I was with someone else...so there ya go? No logic there?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

S4E said:


> I have said to my wife "If I had an affair you'd probably be happy because then we'd be even, but it's not going to happen. She has said she doesn't think she'd be able to deal with it if she found out I was with someone else...so there ya go? No logic there?


It's called cake eating. She wants to have hers and eat it too. 

And women think with their feelings, not logic (not to say women can't be logical).


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Your family was changed forever because of what your wife did. Period.


:iagree: I know this affects our kids in their relationships and I always thoughtn staying and showing them that we could overcome anything would be a good thing.  But I am changed forever too....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

S4E said:


> :iagree: I know this affects our kids in their relationships and I always thoughtn staying and showing them that we could overcome anything would be a good thing.  But I am changed forever too....


Take pride in the fact your kids see a [email protected] strong father who put up with bs when it would have been easy to walk away years ago.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Take pride in the fact your kids see a [email protected] strong father who put up with bs when it would have been easy to walk away years ago.


Although there is a flip side. They might see a father willing to stand up for himself and demand respect and a loving relationship. It might have been even better if they saw him in a loving trusting relationship with someone else who actually respects and made him happy instead of an unhappy marriage just for the sake of being a 2 parent family unit. I'm not sure who that helps at all.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Although there is a flip side. They might see a father willing to stand up for himself and demand respect and a loving relationship. It might have been even better if they saw him in a loving trusting relationship with someone else who actually respects and made him happy instead of an unhappy marriage just for the sake of being a 2 parent family unit. I'm not sure who that helps at all.


Agree that's why the one said move on. His work is done raising them now he's a grandpa


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

S4E,

This is a unique perspective about R that we seldom see. The fact is that resentment may not go away with time. 

Your story may help some of those in "limbo" pass through to wanting to divorce their WS.

Your WW's affair shared similar things with my WW betrayal. I was in "limbo" for a few months after the first d-day. Now I am divorced and married again to a different type of woman.

The feelings you shared help me reaffirm that my choice was wise. *You never get to see what your life would be like if you had made the other decision.* You gave me a glimpse of it today. *Thank you for that.*

I believe you answered your own question in your post. When a person wants out of a marriage they should leave and not cheat. I would say leave.

I wonder when people are found out to be cheating that they have a harder time accepting that it was wrong. They might feel all of those foggy thoughts were true. They might feel that they could have had it more of the good, but it was ruined by someone else.

I wonder when affairs die on their own if the WS has a better chance to realize that it was only fantasy and not preferable to their reality.

These threads make us all think. It is amazing how we learn by sharing with our ideas here at TAM.

Bless you. Keep us posted as you work through your issues.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

and why do I always see my typos after I post? Lol! Have a great weekend!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> Again, all true and you seem very wise to research before you replied...thank you!


You are welcome and thanks for the honest reply. Wow, that is a very logical response and don't you let anyone tell you different. That includes your wife as well.


S4E said:


> I too have thought about this, but I am seriously a 1 woman man. If I met someone else and there was that spark, I still could not have "an affair" without leaving my wife first. I know this about me.. That's part of why I feel I need to leave. I would like to be with someone else and have a fresh start, but I know that if it happened while I was married it would never last. It would be a relationship built on a flawed foundation. I am not interested in just pursueing someone for sex, and I'm guessing if I did have sex with another woman my guilt wouldn't allow me to go back with my wife anyway so what would be the point?


Dang, you think a ton like me and that's funny. I've told people the exact same thing. If things don't work, I am out no sense in cheating.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

I will be the first to admit I have flaws and I am far from perfect. When I was inteviewed for my present job I was asked "why should we hire you?" My reply was "You can teach someone to take care of your pools, plow your lot, oversee repairs and housekeeping, etc...but you can't teach someone to care, you can't teach someone to take ownership...they either have that quality or they don't - I HAVE IT and I will work every day to prove you made the right decision in hiring me!

That is character, that is a part of who I am and I can't change it no matter how hard I try. 

That is what bothers me with my wife. She really is a fun loving, very hard working, good person. But she was also capable to somehow be slow dancing with me singing a song in my ear like I was the only guy in the world that she ever wanted. She would be riding on the back of my motorcycle with strands of my hair in her mouth and kissing on my neck. 

But I also knew she was unhappy and in a bad place at times and I never knew why (and of course she wouldn't tell me). The fact is, while she was making me feel so special, she was flirting with and pursueing our friend! Looking back I saw it happening. He had unlimited funds and she would always comment on all the nice things his girlfriend got...She became greedy and jealous of his girlfriend (her friend) and wanted what she had. 

He started buying her jewelry. She would tell him she wanted it but we didn't have the money. He would say he'd buy it for her and they could work it off in haircuts. That's how it started..First a couple hundred dollar ring, then rings in the thousands, and finally a $4K bracelet and their cruise... She couldn't help herself, between the gifts and the sex she was out of control and her dark place was feeling guilt because I didn't know, I was also good to her, and when I'd question she would reassure me that there was nothing!

So that's why even after all these years it still eats it me...It becomes a question of character! I couldn't do that...I know this!!! Even though she says she doesn't like who she was back then and she will never go back there or do it again, even though she says she learned and would never do it again...and I can pretty much believe this...Can I???


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you got extremely bad guidance from your MC that allowed your W to continue her life as she wanted to, but only made your trauma much deeper. I would suggest that you have been suffering from trauma all this time and are only now beginning to see things in a healthier way.

There is much talk of forgiveness, and I believe that it's fine to forgive someone, but it doesn't mean that that person is the right person to commit the rest of your life to. You are still young. You are openly acknowledging your anger after many years of stuffing it down. If I were in your position, I think I would go with the anger and let it lead me to a better place, which would be finally letting go of the marriage. I wouldn't stay out of obligation with a spouse who has earned so little trust and was so willing to rugsweep my pain.

Can I ask: If your MC hadn't advised the way he/she did, would you have rugswept so dramatically and carried on your marriage the way you have?


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think you got extremely bad guidance from your MC that allowed your W to continue her life as she wanted to, but only made your trauma much deeper. I would suggest that you have been suffering from trauma all this time and are only now beginning to see things in a healthier way.
> 
> There is much talk of forgiveness, and I believe that it's fine to forgive someone, but it doesn't mean that that person is the right person to commit the rest of your life to. You are still young. You are openly acknowledging your anger after many years of stuffing it down. If I were in your position, I think I would go with the anger and let it lead me to a better place, which would be finally letting go of the marriage. I wouldn't stay out of obligation with a spouse who has earned so little trust and was so willing to rugsweep my pain.
> 
> ...


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Although there is a flip side. They might see a father willing to stand up for himself and demand respect and a loving relationship. It might have been even better if they saw him in a loving trusting relationship with someone else who actually respects and made him happy instead of an unhappy marriage just for the sake of being a 2 parent family unit. I'm not sure who that helps at all.


That's just it, my kids knew about the affair. I will always regret this but when my wife first got home, I made her tell the kids. If I could change one thing, it would be that..I WAS WRONG! If I could change 2, it would be not holding things in and letting it out!

But after we made the decision to move forward life was pretty good...vacations, family parties, cookouts, holidays, vacations, church...whatever it took, we were there. This is not about my wife...this is all me, I lived a pretty good life but this has always eaten at me... I just kept it in and only talked to a few close friends.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

S4E said:


> But I also knew she was unhappy and in a bad place at times and I never knew why (and of course she wouldn't tell me). The fact is, while she was making me feel so special, she was flirting with and pursueing our friend! Looking back I saw it happening. He had unlimited funds and she would always comment on all the nice things his girlfriend got...She became greedy and jealous of his girlfriend (her friend) and wanted what she had.
> 
> He started buying her jewelry. She would tell him she wanted it but we didn't have the money. He would say he'd buy it for her and they could work it off in haircuts. That's how it started..First a couple hundred dollar ring, then rings in the thousands, and finally a $4K bracelet and their cruise... She couldn't help herself, between the gifts and the sex she was out of control and her dark place was feeling guilt because I didn't know, I was also good to her, and when I'd question she would reassure me that there was nothing!
> 
> So that's why even after all these years it still eats it me...It becomes a question of character! I couldn't do that...I know this!!! Even though she says she doesn't like who she was back then and she will never go back there or do it again, even though she says she learned and would never do it again...and I can pretty much believe this...Can I???


I know you love her because you are still defending and excusing her actions. seriously, stop looking for reasons and logical explanations. I had to because I'd be out of my mind if I start chasing affair ghosts.

Yes she could help it because you did. 

Honestly, I think your wife can't compete with your female friend. I think your therapy has pointed that out to you. Your wife's accusation may have been the final straw. You didn't act, your friend didn't act, and you went for help. Heck, your friend would reject any line crossing you did. It sounds like you have realized if we could stop why couldn't my wife? You might not be able to come back from that revelation. It is worse because if anyone had a "right" to a revenge affair it would be you and your friend.

Fog, hormones, dark places whatever aside it is all a choice. There is a point where you can say NO. People choose to ignore the warning signs.

My wife and I recently had a conversation about her EA. He had asked her to meet his new child. She was explaining how it was innocuous and blah blah blah. I asked if she saw any similarities in us and that request. She went on this mini-rant about how I make anything innocent look bad. I said "interesting, well we talked, went out and then what happened"She goes we'll we had sex and got married and began raising a family." I said "nope, I let you meet my child when we were COMFORTABLE with each other." The look on her face was priceless.

I told her "Let's be real women show babies; men show pictures." "If you are meeting a single man's child; things have crossed a line."

No, this isn't 100%, but go read the threads. How many thread have a "OMG, my child met the OM before I knew" post?

People ignore warning signs.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> *Honestly, I think your wife can't compete with your female friend. I think your therapy has pointed that out to you. *Your wife's accusation may have been the final straw. *You didn't act, your friend didn't act, and you went for help. Heck, your friend would reject any line crossing you did. It sounds like you have realized if we could stop why couldn't my wife?* You might not be able to come back from that revelation. It is worse because if anyone had a "right" to a revenge affair it would be you and your friend.
> 
> Fog, hormones, dark places whatever aside it is all a choice. There is a point where you can say NO. People choose to ignore the warning signs.


Actually again I think you are right. You seem to know me? 
My personal therapist seemed young and inexperienced but she originally asked a lot of great questions that made me think. She felt my friend was nothing more than a good and supportive friend but she also said "Some people are in your life for a reason or a season and maybe it's time to close the doors on our friendship" I did for awhile, but I seriously didn't think it was fair to someone who was just there for me when I went through so much. She never betrayed my confidence, never spoke bad of my wife, and taught me about friendship. This all came out, I went to therapy, and I have grown thanks to her. 

I do believe I would never cross THAT LINE, but I will also be honest and say lines were crossed. When my wife had a problem with her, I should have cut it off! Would I have a problem with a guy regularly texting my wife, or my wife texting him - no matter how random? Hell yes! I know this! But at a certain point, I didn't really care because I knew it wasn't sexual or physical...it was a vacation from my reality! I worked very hard to understand what happened, why it happened and that I was mistaking a good friend, who showed sincere caring and kindness for someone being attracted to me...and after what I'd been through, I liked it. I know the truth now and I honestly see her as nothing more than a good friend. Our text are very random - mostly jokes, inspirational quotes, or job related and it's no longer the highlight of my day to get one.

Revenge affair? I often said to the few friends I talked to that after all I'd been through I should get a Get out of jail free card allowing me to do whatever the hell I wanted! Instead I got accusations and she was always jealous...always!

I believe part of the attraction was that we were such good friends and yet she wouldn't meet for anything unless my wife and/or others were involved, There was one time she asked me if I ever played tennis because she wanted to start playing again. I said I've never really played but I'm willing to try it. She said will you tell your wife? I said it probably wouldn't be a good idea. She said either be honest and tell her, even invite her with... or no go! I of course didn't go, but I respected that. 

I believe sometimes that because she knew what it felt like to be cheated on, and she divorced her husband, that she respected marriage enough that even if there was "something" there, it wasn't gonna happen! She was never gonna be the other woman...I'll be honest, at one time in the back of my mind I believed just maybe if I wasn't married, there might be a chance. Therapy helped me work through that and I believe I was seeing something that wasn't there - we were friends.

Like I said.... it's been a long time, we're still friends but it's not the same, and she moved on. After her divorce, she moved 2K miles away and she is now living with a guy... It's all good, I want her to be happy...that's how friends are..


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Fog, hormones, dark places whatever aside it is all a choice. My wife and I recently had a conversation about her EA. He had asked her to meet his new child. She was explaining how it was innocuous and blah blah blah. I asked if she saw any similarities in us and that request. She went on this mini-rant about how I make anything innocent look bad. I said "interesting, well we talked, went out and then what happened"She goes we'll we had sex and got married and began raising a family." I said "nope, I let you meet my child when we were COMFORTABLE with each other." The look on her face was priceless.
> 
> I told her "Let's be real women show babies; men show pictures." "If you are meeting a single man's child; things have crossed a line."
> 
> ...


You seem very intuitive. Because your wife already had an EA, you are allowed (or should be) to question anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Anything.
I'm sure that was a classic aha moment when you reminded her of how you met! I wish you luck...there's a fine balance between questioning someone, and making someone feel like you don't trust them... You have every reason to question though.

My wife doesn't get that either. That's what I believe led to her affair. She was outgoing, somewhat flirtatious, and touchy feely with many of our friends. I always said one day someone will take that the wrong way and you will be in a position you don't want to be in...She would get angry and say I'm just having fun and they know that! Look where it got us...

So nowadays when she gets like that, if I say anything we get in a fight and she says I wasn't doing anything and I'm sick of you treating me like I did something wrong, you're not perfect either! But yet I get the 3rd degree if I'm talking to anyone and it makes her uncomfotable (even one of her friends). So in the past I just stood there and drank my beer and talked with the guys... Those days are gone. I will no longer let her moods and insecurities dictate what I do.... I can be trusted!

I have learned too, and I too will watch my boundaries regardless of who I'm with...gray areas are a dangerous place! Again...Thanks and good luck!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

S4E, I've been with you through this from the beginning. It seems to me that you still have not resolved the anger component, even though you have forgiven her. 

I don't know what to tell you brother, other than you need to separate from her as soon as financially possible. She is a constant, every day trigger, and the longer you stay there as her roomate (and not the doting husband she wants you to be), her resentment towards you is going to fester and putrify. 

The two of you may be somehwat civil now....but that civility won't last forever. If her past behavior is any predictor of future actions, she will seek out a new emotional wellspring somehwere else and you will find yourself twice betrayed.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Struggling4ever said:


> ... also I need to see how she is when I'm not around... Will she sit around crying and really miss me? Will *she channel her anger and go meet someone*? I need to know. If i miss her and she decides to move on, then that's what was meant to be! I need to stay strong...this I know!


You know me S4E...

If I was a betting man, that's where I'd put my money. 

Hope she didn't pull some crap while she was on that cruise. Her and boats and available men are not a good combination.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> S4E, I've been with you through this from the beginning. It seems to me that you still have not resolved the anger component, even though you have forgiven her.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you brother, other than you need to separate from her as soon as financially possible. She is a constant, every day trigger, and the longer you stay there as her roomate (and not the doting husband she wants you to be), her resentment towards you is going to fester and putrify.
> 
> The two of you may be somehwat civil now....but that civility won't last forever. If her past behavior is any predictor of future actions, she will seek out a new emotional wellspring somehwere else and you will find yourself twice betrayed.


Thanks and I appreciate your response. You are someone I respected from the beginning. I am not really so angry anymore...I sure had a lot in me that I had to get out and it was rough but I believ at this point I'm just more disappointed that things are the way they are. I know this has been dragging on forever...

There was the death of my daughters fiance in a car accident, There was my oldest son's wedding, therapy, and basically life getting in the way of life... We have had very honest and serious talks on more than 1 occasion, and she knows where I'm at.. After months without sex again, we slept together on Thanksgiving and we were actually getting along better for awhile until she threw a fit of rage once again. So I have told her I can't do it any more. I should have moved out while she was gone with my daughter and friends on a cruise a few weeks ago but i really had nowhere to go...If that wasn't a good excuse to pull the trigger, I don't know what would be...a cruise! 

Anyway..I am stronger, wiser, and far more independant. I'm honest about my feelings even if I'm wrong... I do plan on a seperation because I owe that to myself, and also I need to see how she is when I'm not around... Will she sit around crying and really miss me? Will she channel her anger and go meet someone and party it up? I need to know. If I miss her and she decides to move on, then that's what was meant to be! I need to stay strong...this I know!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

I realized I posted under my original Struggling4Ever...I stopped using that after I told her about it and she went there and used it for ammo in arguments... So I deleted it and reposted because I didn't want to confuse others? I think too damn much, I should have just left it...Thanks again Bandit...I hope you're well!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

S4E said:


> Anyway..I am stronger, wiser, and far more independant. I'm honest about my feelings even if I'm wrong... I do plan on a seperation because I owe that to myself, and also *I need to see how she is when I'm not around... Will she sit around crying and really miss me? Will she channel her anger and go meet someone and party it up? I need to know. If I miss her and she decides to move on, then that's what was meant to be! I need to stay strong...this I know!*



Why do you need to know this? I'm not trying to come down on you or anything, it just seems like you've been dealing with issues related to your wife and her behavior for years now. Your unhappiness has revolved around your wife's actions, feelings, and how she's treated and reacted towards you. 

If you seperate you should do it 100% for yourself to see how it works for you. I don't expect you to move out and completely forget about your wife, that's unrealistic. But maybe you should just try not worrying about what she's doing, how she's feeling, and how she reacts to you and throw yourself into thinking and focusing solely on your needs for a change. Because your wife sounds like she's always been about her, and you've always been an afterthought.

But ya you definitely owe it to yourself.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Why do you need to know this? I'm not trying to come down on you or anything, it just seems like you've been dealing with issues related to your wife and her behavior for years now. Your unhappiness has revolved around your wife's actions, feelings, and how she's treated and reacted towards you.
> 
> If you seperate you should do it 100% for yourself to see how it works for you. I don't expect you to move out and completely forget about your wife, that's unrealistic. But maybe you should just try not worrying about what she's doing, how she's feeling, and how she reacts to you and throw yourself into thinking and focusing solely on your needs for a change. Because your wife sounds like she's always been about her, and you've always been an afterthought.
> 
> But ya you definitely owe it to yourself.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

In case anyone's confused by the Quote on bandit.45's post from Struggling4ever, S4E is short for Struggling4Ever. Enough people shortened it to S4E that I used another e-mail and started things over. I had originally told my wife that I was coming on here and she knew me as Struggling4Ever. I was brutally honest (since edited) and between what I wrote and the comments it was really hard on her. It shouldn't matter to me, but it does - I'm just not that guy! We've had a lot of good times and we have a family together, I just don't want to have this be part of my relationship forever and I know I can never let it go...It was just too deep of a cut and the scar is there... Thanks for all the honesty...good or bad - I need it! Make the best of your weekends!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I was actually reading through some of your old threads. You sound like you were on the verge of leaving. What stopped you?


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> I was actually reading through some of your old threads. You sound like you were on the verge of leaving. What stopped you?


Since the affair things have always been pretty good...better in her eyes as she was able to put it all behind her. I never really did, but I never brought it up or talked about it either. I just learned to make the best of things and when triggers came up I just learned a thought process that helped me justify what happened. It was based on lies, but until I learned the truth (or faced it)...it worked pretty good. Sex was never the same, everything else was alright.... Because she put it behind her and has been a pretty good wife since then (except for periods during the last 2 years since it all resurfaced) it makes it that much harder! I begged her to stay, she did, she's held up her end of the bargain and I hate to just pull the rug out from under her now...regardless of what she did to me - I'm not her. 

I have learned I need to do this for me and I believe it's just around the corner... but time will tell...


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

S4E said:


> Since the affair things have always been pretty good...better in her eyes as she was able to put it all behind her. I never really did, but I never brought it up or talked about it either. I just learned to make the best of things and when triggers came up I just learned a thought process that helped me justify what happened. It was based on lies, but until I learned the truth (or faced it)...it worked pretty good. Sex was never the same, everything else was alright.... Because she put it behind her and has been a pretty good wife since then (except for periods during the last 2 years since it all resurfaced) it makes it that much harder! I begged her to stay, she did, she's held up her end of the bargain and I hate to just pull the rug out from under her now...regardless of what she did to me - I'm not her.
> 
> I have learned I need to do this for me and I believe it's just around the corner... but time will tell...


Leaving or even divorcing her doesn't make you her. Short of cheating on her nothing you could do would make you her. Sounds like you've always put her needs ahead of your own which unfortunately isn't a recipe to happiness let alone a happy marriage. Especially when infidelity is involved.

But you sound like you have your head on straight and see this pretty clearly. Do you have any type of plan? Like where to live, etc? Are your finances good?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I know it is painful, but your thread should be a sticky for crappy MCs. You had so many unresolved issues, I think angry arguments would have been better. At the least, she would have been forced to deal with her actions in full.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

S4e.

How is your wife taking this now? Is she angry with you for wanting to leave her? Does she really want to stay married to you?

Do you think she really loves you?


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

sounds like you have a case of "buyers remorse."

S4E, would you say you had a delayed reaction to the affair? what i mean is- do you feel the affair might have been a DEALBREAKER for you all along? 

you keep on saying that you owed it to your children to take another shot at reconciling, that's why i'm asking. maybe your heart wasn't truly into, but because of your own FOO's you saw no other choice but to reconcile. you didn't want your family to go through what you did. does that make sense?

only now(kids being older) do you realize this betrayal has been eating you alive all these years. now you want OUT.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> sounds like you have a case of "buyers remorse."
> 
> S4E, would you say you had a delayed reaction to the affair? what i mean is- do you feel the affair might have been a DEALBREAKER for you all along?
> *I know now that I can see what really happened I wish I had left. I think I made the best of things because that's all I really knew? I'm a middle child and I'm always trying to please everyone... At least I was.*
> ...


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Summer4744 said:


> S4e.
> 
> How is your wife taking this now? Is she angry with you for wanting to leave her? *She's in denial. We had a serious talk, she talked of moving out and I said I was the one who wanted this, I should find somewhere to go...the next day she always acts like things are good and it won't be brought up again until either I say something or we have a fight...*Does she really want to stay married to you? *I would say a definite YES*
> 
> Do you think she really loves you?*Again, I believe she does... I just can't stomach what she did, I wish I could get around it...maybe with time away from her? I don't know..*


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> But you sound like you have your head on straight and see this pretty clearly. Do you have any type of plan? Like where to live, etc? Are your finances good?


* Some days I feel like I have a good handle on things and I know what I need and want to do...others I think What am I doing? So not really... I'm all talk - no action!*

*Plan is to separate for a while...hopefully soon, probably May?*
*Finances are the main reason I haven't left. I'm a former contractor, our house needs work, we owe back taxes and I'm working to get them straightened out...not much cash or retirement! I thought I'd do well running a business and it was a lot of hard work and we did ok, but nothing extra*


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, you need some distance. Some people will disagree, but she is ignoring and you are suppressing issues. That isn't healthy for either one of you. Blow ups are terrible as well. You'll both know better, what you want, at that point by the others reaction while away from each other.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

I can sympathize with the way you feel. I only wish you hadn't tortured yourself for 12 years...but I can see how the kids might've played a part in it.

Your happiness is the most important thing now and it is not with her.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> I can sympathize with the way you feel. I only wish you hadn't tortured yourself for 12 years...but I can see how the kids might've played a part in it.
> 
> Your happiness is the most important thing now and it is not with her.


The problem is, It wasn't all torture! As I've said, it was a lot of good...mostly good. It's just the triggers...the sex, and the finally facing what she actually did and being disgusted by it! I am honestly 1 confused man. When she is sleeping and I look at her, I feel love, as soon as she starts talking (to anyone)...I am critical of whatever she says, and I get angry and or disgusted, sad, whatever... I can't go back to the days of denial...and I don't want to! I think the seperation is best for now...


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, you need some distance. Some people will disagree, but she is ignoring and you are suppressing issues. That isn't healthy for either one of you. Blow ups are terrible as well. You'll both know better, what you want, at that point by the others reaction while away from each other.


Once again...right on target!:iagree:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

But be ready...

If you move out, you two need to make an agreement that the separation will be a celibate one in nature, that it is to give each other space to assess what the two of you want to do, and you need to set a definitive deadline 3 or 6 months down the road to come back together and reassess where the two of you are. 

Couple that with bi-weekly marriage counseling with a counselor who knows what the heck they're actually doing. 

If she decides to start dating other men on the sly and bring them back to the house for entertainment, then the deal is off and you move forwards with the divorce...

If you even get and inkling or hear through the grapevine that she is screwing around...the deal is off and divorce is all but certain. 

Write it down... a written contract/covenant that both of you sign and each gets a copy.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Is she taking any steps to get you back?

Just be carefull about any talk of taking her back post divorce. IF you do take her back it will depend on her doing most of the work.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Let's face it, she got a great deal. She got the affair, she got to keep the husband all for no money down and no mothly payments.

You had to suck it up and keep it all in. Your wife should understand this and also support you for all that she has done.

You have suffered for all these years. You need to finally heal.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Do I remember this right---your wife told you very early in your mge, she was going on the cruise with the other guy, and then she was going to come back home to you, and basically it was a take it, whether you liked or not----Am I right on what happened---you were what 19 or 20. 

If this is the situation, I don't know how you stayed up until now, she wanted her rich lover, and you, you were just the young H, be there if you want, leave if you want, that was her attitude--------I have no idea how you withstood, what your sub-conscious has been doing to you all these years------


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Do I remember this right---your wife told you very early in your mge, she was going on the cruise with the other guy, and then she was going to come back home to you, and basically it was a take it, whether you liked or not----Am I right on what happened---you were what 19 or 20.
> 
> If this is the situation, I don't know how you stayed up until now, she wanted her rich lover, and you, you were just the young H, be there if you want, leave if you want, that was her attitude--------I have no idea how you withstood, what your sub-conscious has been doing to you all these years------


We were married more than 15 years when we met him and his GF and we all became friends. The affair and cruise that ended it happened when we had been married about 18 years... No, I knew nothing about him going with? She went with her sisters...he ended up footing the bill and going with (and they shared a cabin)...


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

S4E said:


> You seem very intuitive. Because your wife already had an EA, you are allowed (or should be) to question anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Anything.
> I'm sure that was a classic aha moment when you reminded her of how you met! I wish you luck...there's a fine balance between questioning someone, and making someone feel like you don't trust them... You have every reason to question though.
> 
> My wife doesn't get that either. That's what I believe led to her affair. She was outgoing, somewhat flirtatious, and touchy feely with many of our friends. I always said one day someone will take that the wrong way and you will be in a position you don't want to be in...She would get angry and say I'm just having fun and they know that! Look where it got us...
> ...


This to me is a major red flag. She is not owning up to what she did to you and your marriage while at the same time flying off the handle with jealousy every time you talk to another woman. She wants it both ways.

THere are major, major problems that she is still trying to keep swept under the rug here. It is a textbook case of false reconciliation, which means, in other words, that you have not reconciled at all.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Ok now I remember----or you may have stated---you called the ship, he then got off early and came home---but the damage was long done-----your honestly, lovingly given ring, didn't match what his money could buy!!!!!

Your wife when she finally "got it" based her decision on what, was it that reality finally came in to play for her, or did she just decide there was no future with him, ---thru these decisions back then, you must have laid some type of consequences on her, or was it her decision all the way---and you went along to keep a family unit together for your kids

You are 53 now---you arn't that far away from your golden years---I am in no way suggesting you spend them with her, as I know you are getting all kinds of push from your sub-conscious to get far away from her, which hopefully will in some way alleviate the pain/misery/hurt-------

Are you intending to eventually look for another relationship, or will you, like so many, just finish your days out, with friends and family, and hopefully enjoy what is left of your life

What type of relationship do you expect to have with your wife after your D., will you associate with her at all, or would you rather spend the rest of your days, w/out the pain, that she brings with her???


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Ok now I remember----or you may have stated---you called the ship, he then got off early and came home---but the damage was long done-----your honestly, lovingly given ring, didn't match what his money could buy!!!!!
> 
> Your wife when she finally "got it" based her decision on what, was it that reality finally came in to play for her, or did she just decide there was no future with him, ---thru these decisions back then, you must have laid some type of consequences on her, or was it her decision all the way---and you went along to keep a family unit together for your kids
> 
> ...


Good question.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Just trying to be blunt but you need to take the dive and move out ASAP. Honestly it sounds like you've been putting it off for more than a year and whenever you do talk about actually doing it you either back off or you push the date you plan on moving out months and months out despite the fact you're miserable in your marriage and resentful towards your wife. You've been in limbo long enough and your wife doesn't seem to give a **** about how you feel and is more than content to keep the status quo because you've given her absolutely no reason why you shouldn't besides moping and being sad about your situation.


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Your wife when she finally "got it" based her decision on what, was it that reality finally came in to play for her, or did she just decide there was no future with him, ---thru these decisions back then, you must have laid some type of consequences on her, or was it her decision all the way---and you went along to keep a family unit together for your kids
> *I don't know if she just never thought she'd get caught, or what? She said then that she always loved me and had no plans of leaving because she knew how he was, she just got caught up in the "greed" because she knew he would buy her anything or do anything for her. By the time she got home I was just glad she was ok and I told her I wanted to work it out but she had to never see him again and we had to go to marriage counciling. We then found out from others that he was seeing a couple other women on the side. I believe she just realized it would never be serious or stable and she knew I had always been there? I don't really know.*
> 
> You are 53 now---you arn't that far away from your golden years---I am in no way suggesting you spend them with her, as I know you are getting all kinds of push from your sub-conscious to get far away from her, which hopefully will in some way alleviate the pain/misery/hurt-------
> ...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Criminy, 53 is in the prime of life for a man. I hope you make a decision to enjoy what will undoubtedly be the many, many years ahead, a decision for some happiness and peace of mind.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

S4E
Just have read your post, and could feel a tear trickle down my cheek.
You have told my story, 12 years after the fact, I am dealing with this bullcrap.
Everything swept under the rug, don't rub my nose in it, I agreed, why? I was confused did not know what was going on, and needed to find out. 
Once I agree on something, there's no going back.
Benounced to me this had eaten me up to the core, and now I am dealing with this.

Your not alone
I do have more posted in a thread I started
"Should I stay or Should I go....it's haunting me"

Craig


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

S4E said:


> My first question would be why would you stay?
> If you have younger kids, I understand. But because you love her/him... Seriously, they sure didn't care about you while being in bed with another!
> 
> My second question would be how do you accept such an unacceptable betrayal? What can you possibly say to yourself to make it ok or get over it?
> ...


I'm 30, no kids and struggling with the same conflict. We're trying to R, but while all this is going on, I'm pricing apartments in Minneapolis. I love in Florida, for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

I have been checking prices on accommodations as well.
Also going through all the bank paperwork, seeing what's left to split, if the house sells.
Not quite there yet, but doing my homework.

I mentioned the possibility of separation, the response I got was "I don't want to live in a card board box". Hmm, what about I love you.......I replied well you don't know me well if you think I would leave you destitute.

Bottom line, get your ducks in a row, and have a plan, that you can fall back onto.

Sorry for the hijack of the thread.

Craig


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> I have been checking prices on accommodations as well.
> Also going through all the bank paperwork, seeing what's left to split, if the house sells.
> Not quite there yet, but doing my homework.
> 
> ...


Your wife checked out a long time ago. You HAVE to end it. That was about the worst reply any wife could give. But then again, she is checked out....


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Problem not discussed here is that WW went on a cruise with the OM and her sisters.

How could they face you after helping WW to hide and conduct her affair with the OM.

Did WW's sisters every apologize to you for their enabling WW's affair?


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

hoping4love said:


> I have to agree with walkonmars, here - I don't think you ever really forgave her. Which is fine, that is your right.
> 
> However, in my opinion - I don't think infidelity is the absolute worse thing that someone can do to their partner. Yes, it hurts, and yes there is pain, and "God, how could they have been so selfish?!" But, I think the worst possible thing someone can do to their spouse is to give up on them. Not in the sense of leaving them after their affair - by all means, if that helps you cope, DO IT. But, I mean, in the sense that you forget who you know they really are - even if their actions don't prove it.
> 
> I may be too sentimental or mildly delusional, but that is my opinion.


You can think whatever you want and that is your right.

However, in my opinion - You are wrong! 
You call my wife who would slow dance with me nibbling on my ear singing love songs to me quietly as we danced, my wife who would ride on the back of my motorcycle sucking on my hair and again nibbling on my ear, my wife who would tell me (and brag to friends) what a great lover I am - only to be stopping the next morning on her way to work to blow and bang my friend (and God only knows what else) selfish??? And then me giving up on her because I know how she "really is" even if her actions don't prove it - worse than that?

I am actually too sentimental and that's part of why I am stuck in between I can't leave - but I can't stay.. because I want to believe I know her better..but I thought I knew her then and my world was crushed!!!
I do thank you for your input - but I don't need further confusion... I already question everything already and although my inner voice tells me that I need to leave - I can't because I don't want to hurt her? 
So in my "opinion" - you are the one who is delusional..but then you've never walked in my shoes - or slept in my bed... at least as far as I know anyway. :-(


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Summer4744 said:


> S4e.
> 
> How is your wife taking this now? Is she angry with you for wanting to leave her? Does she really want to stay married to you?
> 
> Do you think she really loves you?


Sorry for not replying sooner. I started rereading this due to a new comment.

My wife has finally gone from angry to trying to accept this. She has always tried to blame anyone and anything else and now she realizes and says she did this and although she loves me she understands why I can't stay and if it was the other way around she couldn't stay either. I believe she wants to stay married but the reality is we have been in seperate rooms since March 1 and we haven't had sex since last September - both my choice... I can't just go through the motions and although I do have desire for kissing and sex - I don't desire it with her. I haven't in a long time. It's sad...I think we'd both be better off with others and a clean slate, I just don't think she realizes it...yet...


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

theroad said:


> Problem not discussed here is that WW went on a cruise with the OM and her sisters.
> 
> How could they face you after helping WW to hide and conduct her affair with the OM.
> 
> Did WW's sisters every apologize to you for their enabling WW's affair?


Her one sister actually told me - Sorry, you might be a great husband but if I was her - I'd go for the money. Of course this was a sister who was beaten bad enough by her first husband that their child was taken away, and her second husband was a serial cheater...so whatever. Supposedly her sisters didn't know until close to the sailing date. One of her sisters was paying for it from some settlement and her son forged a check and stole money... So instead of coming to me, she went to "our friend", because she knew he'd pay..and then she felt obligated to ask him to go with???
It was never talked about with the other sister or cousin.. I buried those feelings too, but since this came out I can no longer stomach them either...


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> S4E
> Just have read your post, and could feel a tear trickle down my cheek.
> You have told my story, 12 years after the fact, I am dealing with this bullcrap.
> Everything swept under the rug, don't rub my nose in it, I agreed, why? I was confused did not know what was going on, and needed to find out.
> ...


In case it's not known...I originally posted as Struggling4ever and because my wife was checking it out and there were some pretty harsh replies - I switched to S4E.. at this point everythings been said and it doesn't matter - unfortunately it is what it is... Sorry you have had similar feelings. It sucks knowing you should leave just not knowing how. For us it has to happen. I could go home tonight and tell her I want to work it out and she'd be thrilled - I could go home and she'd do oral and/or whatever else and she'd be totally into it - but I wouldn't - so I can't! And no I don't believe she's getting it elsewhere - I even started checking up and nothing...but in reality..who knows - I think I'd be relieved if she was?


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> I have been checking prices on accommodations as well.
> Also going through all the bank paperwork, seeing what's left to split, if the house sells.
> Not quite there yet, but doing my homework.
> 
> ...


No worries and not taken as a hijack. I appreciate your comments and knowing someone else actually "gets it" helps to justify what I feel I need to do for my own sanity. After I caught my wife, she actually said - if you do leave I knw I'm the one who should move out, but I grew up poor and never thought I'd own a house - could I maybe stay here... I was blown away. Now she talks of wanting to refinance and add in an equity loan so she can maybe affird the payments and stay.. I said I'm not putting my name on another loan and you can't do it yourself - so no... We have no money saved and nothing extra... I too have been looking as to where I can stay. I live 40 minutes from work and I'm on call 24/7. So far the only place is 50 minutes away and it would just be for 5 weeks... I guess that's a start...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It sounds like you're reaching the end of the line with this. You've got a lot of life ahead of you and I wish you the best with that. You deserve some peace and happiness.


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## r0r0bin (Jul 13, 2013)

It is a must to throw the trash(cheating wife).

You will be in great life after that.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

r0r0bin said:


> It is a must to throw the trash(cheating wife).
> 
> You will be in great life after that.


I'm hoping for a better life for both of us...Sitting on the fence so long has made me tired and weary... I don't consider her trash. Had I left back then I could probably say that! She has since given me 11 pretty good years, she was there for my mom when she was old and when she died, and she was better to her than any of her children other than me. She didn't make a mistake, she made bad choices - from what I know now - about a years worth! I made a bad choice too - My choice to stay and think I was strong enough to let this go. I'm not. This is just how it has to be... Thsnks.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

S4E,

I am sorry that you had a painful experience 12 years ago...
However, you didn't divorce when it was bad and want to divorce now, after 11 "pretty good years"...
Not sure how it works in the US, but I know that in the UK legally you can use adultery as a ground for divorce only within 6 months after the affair discovery. If you didn't file for the divorce during that time, it automatically means that it was bearable for you to stay with your wife. And that was your choice actually...
Even if you chose to stay for the sake of children, you heavily overstayed. You could leave when your youngest turned 18 - and it was 7 years ago.
In my opinion, you just want to start fresh - and who can blame you? Divorce and start fresh! But don't use your wife old adultery as a reason behind your desire to start fresh...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Aerith said:


> Not sure how it works in the US, but I know that in the UK legally you can use adultery as a ground for divorce only within 6 months after the affair discovery.


 Depends on the state, in most it doesn't matter. Staying 1 day to 3180 doesn't matter.



> If you didn't file for the divorce during that time, it automatically means that it was bearable for you to stay with your wife. And that was your choice actually...
> Even if you chose to stay for the sake of children, you heavily overstayed. You could leave when your youngest turned 18 - and it was 7 years ago.
> In my opinion, you just want to start fresh - and who can blame you? Divorce and start fresh! But don't use your wife old adultery as a reason behind your desire to start fresh...


Wow, I wish life was this cut and dry. I wish memories never affected out current life or resurfaced years later to affect us.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Depends on the state, in most it doesn't matter. Staying 1 day to 3180 doesn't matter.
> 
> Wow, I wish life was this cut and dry. I wish memories never affected out current life or resurfaced years later to affect us.


Thanks for your understanding! I was soooo angry when I read the post from *Aerith*! I had just gotten to bed very late (after 2AM when I read it and I had to be up at 6AM). It took everything I had to not go to the computer and pound out a reply. I thought I should wait a day or 2 to cool down and think about it...Ok, I will post a reply... I'm calm now! lol


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Aerith said:


> S4E,I am sorry that you had a painful experience 12 years ago...
> However, you didn't divorce when it was bad and want to divorce now, after 11 "pretty good years"...
> Not sure how it works in the US, but I know that in the UK legally you can use adultery as a ground for divorce only within 6 months after the affair discovery. If you didn't file for the divorce during that time, it automatically means that it was bearable for you to stay with your wife. And that was your choice actually......


I am not using her affair for reason to divorce now? But yes her *choice* to have sex and be in a relationship with my supposed "best friend" for about a year (as I have since learned) does heavily weigh into the life experiences that have brought me to where I am now... Wow - how judgemental of you anyway?!! 

I will say my therapist whom I had to spend many months with to help me get through all of this buried pain, said that what I suffered from was very close to PTSD. I never really faced it all when it happened. Because of the way I found out and because I had several days to think about what they did before seeing her again. I couldn't let myself be angry at her because she told me she contemplated jumping off the side of the cruise ship and a "stranger" stopped her... She said that would be easier than coming home and facing me and our kids.. I ended up doing whatever it took to make sure my kids had their mom and also to make sure my POS so called "best friend" didn't take more away from me than he already had... maybe if we had good counciling back then - it would have ended different - but I doubt it, the betrayal was too deep! I was also told by my therapist and others that there is no time limit on how long it takes to get over this or decide that I can't - the affair was her choice, this is mine!



Aerith said:


> Even if you chose to stay for the sake of children, you heavily overstayed. You could leave when your youngest turned 18 - and it was 7 years ago....


Wow how judgemental of you! I'm sorry you feel that way - I don't mind opinions, but this is a "statement"...and how dare you? As the saying goes, unless you've walked in someone elses shoe's, you have no right to judge them because you don't know what all they have been through! But yeah.. you're right I guess:lol: I did overstay, and I could have left 7 years ago... or more... As I said - you don't know all of my life's experiences that led to this and it's about a whole lot more than the affair - but even if it wasn't - the affair would be enough!!

I know I am not alone in my regret. I stayed because at the time it's all I knew. I stayed because I had younger children who were at the same age my brothers were when my parent divorced, I stayed because he took so much from me and my family and I didn't want him to win, I stayed because I diddn't want him around my kids, I stayed because I lied to myself about the affair and made myself believe I pushed her away and he manipulated her and therefore she was a victim. I stayed because I loved her and we had 20 years together...




Aerith said:


> In my opinion, you just want to start fresh - and who can blame you? Divorce and start fresh! But don't use your wife old adultery as a reason behind your desire to start fresh...


Ok, so you do know how to voice an "opinion" rather than just making statements about me and my life! Thank you!

You're right, I am finally to the point where I feel we both need to start fresh. I want to, she doesn't - but in time I believe she''ll realize it was for the best.... That is my hope anyway.
As far as using her "old adultery" If profanity was allowed I'd go there on this one!!! Again - how dare you! Her adultery is not old! It is as fresh in my mind as it was when I found out. When I was going through therapy and reliving the old memories and facing the truth that was unknown and/or buried... I cried regularly. I couldn't even talk about it in therapy without breaking down. I'd pull over on the way there or home. I'd cry as I wrote down thoughts in my journal. I broke down at work and couldn't focus on my job, I drove by his house weekly and sat across the street crying...I was an effing mess. 

I was talking to a friend one day who went through a recent divorce and she said - "Some things in life are just too heavy to carry. You may still love her, but that would be a tough one - Don't be so hard on yourself, it doesn't matter how many years it's been - you deserve to be happy and so does she" That statement - Some things in life are just too heavy to carry lifted years of guilt off me!

I begged her to stay after the affair, she did and she held up her end of the bargain and so even though this has eaten away at me for years, I didn't feel right backing out on the deal and leaving so I stayed. We have had a lot of good times, we have a lot in common, but this will always be there and although I do love her. In a healthy relationship you also need trust and respect... She doesn't trust me - she says that she never thought she could do this and she did so she knows if she did it can happen to anyone... I really don't trust her in the way I thought I did - I just developed an attitude of I have no control and I didn't think she'd do it before and I didn't know about it for a year, so if she's gonna do it...she's gonna do it and next time I would leave. And respect? We both respect each other - but we also both have lost a lot of respect as well.....


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Struggling4ever said:


> Thanks for your understanding! I was soooo angry when I read the post from *Aerith*! I had just gotten to bed very late (after 2AM when I read it and I had to be up at 6AM). It took everything I had to not go to the computer and pound out a reply. I thought I should wait a day or 2 to cool down and think about it...Ok, I will post a reply... I'm calm now! lol


You are welcome and no thanks are needed. Things affect us, years later, in regular situations let alone emotional problems that have been disregarded. No one knows when emotional trauma will resurface, if we did, there'd be a pill and pharmaceutical companies would be richer.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Struggling4ever said:


> I am not using her affair for reason to divorce now? But yes her *choice* to have sex and be in a relationship with my supposed "best friend" for about a year (as I have since learned) does heavily weigh into the life experiences that have brought me to where I am now... Wow - how judgemental of you anyway?!!
> 
> I will say my therapist whom I had to spend many months with to help me get through all of this buried pain, said that what I suffered from was very close to PTSD. I never really faced it all when it happened. Because of the way I found out and because I had several days to think about what they did before seeing her again. I couldn't let myself be angry at her because she told me she contemplated jumping off the side of the cruise ship and a "stranger" stopped her... She said that would be easier than coming home and facing me and our kids.. I ended up doing whatever it took to make sure my kids had their mom and also to make sure my POS so called "best friend" didn't take more away from me than he already had... maybe if we had good counciling back then - it would have ended different - but I doubt it, the betrayal was too deep! I was also told by my therapist and others that there is no time limit on how long it takes to get over this or decide that I can't - the affair was her choice, this is mine!
> 
> ...


You don't need to explain yourself at all. Only someone who has never been through it would question your motives. I've been divorced for well over 20 years. I am happily remarried and have been for some time. Yet I still feel the pangs of my ex's betrayal and it does still affect me in subtle ways. Something like this is life altering. Its your life and its up to you how to conduct it and decide what you want out of it. No one has any right to question you. I hope and pray that you find peace.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

S4E,

First, I expressed my opinion...

Secondly, no, I cannot put myself in your shoes. I am in my own shoes and I had enough pain in my former marriage. 

Regarding your post, my point was - if you want to start fresh and move on - just do it!


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

I have to agree with Aerith. I will take it even further and say that S4E failed to stand up for himself and allowed one sorry azz counselor set the stage for he next 13 years of his life. He allowed ONE person to do this, when everyone else on his side was probably telling him to dump his cheating flagrant wife. 

And yes S4E I was cheated on by my first wife. That's my opinion. Take it or ignore it. Last I checked the 1st Amendment is still in effect. Arieth was exercising a right to free speech. I did not read one word that was blatantly abusive or disrespectful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Aerith said:


> S4E,
> 
> First, I expressed my opinion...
> 
> ...


I understood your point and I thank you for your opinion - but your statement was what offended me because it is simply not true - 
_"If you didn't file for the divorce during that time, *it automatically means that it was bearable for you to stay with your wife*. And that was your choice actually...
Even if you chose to stay for the sake of children, *you heavily overstayed."*_ Thank you though....


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

BashfulBull said:


> I have to agree with Aerith. I will take it even further and say that S4E failed to stand up for himself and allowed one sorry azz counselor set the stage for he next 13 years of his life. He allowed ONE person to do this, when everyone else on his side was probably telling him to dump his cheating flagrant wife.
> 
> And yes S4E I was cheated on by my first wife. That's my opinion. Take it or ignore it. Last I checked the 1st Amendment is still in effect. Arieth was exercising a right to free speech. I did not read one word that was blatantly abusive or disrespectful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nor did I? I never said Arieth was "blatantly abusive or disrespectful." And I agree with free speech as well - and also my right to be offended when opinions and statements do not reflect what was said or what really happened.
You are also wrong about the ONE person/everyone else "opinion" too...but then you weren't there and you apparently haven't followed my whole story. It's easy to jump in on the end with an opinion when it's not based on anything of substance.. But thank you..


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

S4E said:


> My first question would be why would you stay?
> If you have younger kids, I understand. But because you love her/him... Seriously, they sure didn't care about you while being in bed with another!


I wouldn't stay. Not anymore. After going through 2 false R, third time broke the camel's back. Now, in my future relationships, one strike and my new partner will be out. I don't care if it is Ms. Universe or heiress to an impossible fortune, or if we have three kids and 30 years in the marriage. My sanity is the most precious thing and I am not going to lose it again by living in fear and desperation. 



> My second question would be how do you accept such an unacceptable betrayal? What can you possibly say to yourself to make it ok or get over it?


I was dependent on the relationship. Tied my happiness to a person, an idea of future. Didn't realize it worked that way. Happiness has to come from inside. I justified the betrayal by her logic that I made her do it, I was not adequate enough to provide for all the luxuries she desired. 



> And finally, how do you deal with the triggers, the memories? To this day certain songs, movies, phrases, cars, whatever still take me back there! Maybe because it was ongoing and with a close friend who happens to have my same first name. Do you know how long it took for me to hear my name in bed and have my mind not go to him? It still happens...maybe it's just how my mind works?


This one is tough. I am slowly getting a hang of this. Whenever I experience something that triggers me, I fully go through the pain, don't suppress it. The more I experience it, the less the pain becomes. I have so far tried to do everything that I used to enjoy with my STBXW, on my own. Believe me, it works. It hurts as hell, but soon the pain starts to lose its grip on you. If you want to master the pain, own it. It worked for me, might not work for you though, but at least you can try.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> Last I checked the 1st Amendment is still in effect. Arieth was exercising a right to free speech. I did not read one word that was blatantly abusive or disrespectful.
> [/i][/size]


So was he when he disagreed, felt it was disrespectful and was offended. 1st amendment, even though dang near everyone misunderstands its use, applies to his response. I love irony.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

S4E, how are you doing?, did you decide to give a shot to real reconciliation or adid you move out?, I hope is either of those two, I read all your threads today, whatever you decide I hope you are not still trapped in limbo you were still in 2013, new year new path of life.

best of lucks.


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