# Formerly (?) abusive marriage...not sure what to do.



## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Hi all,

I need an outside view on my situation. I have been with my husband for a decade, most of which he was extremely emotionally, verbally and occasionally physically abusive.

I stuck around because he always promised he would change or he'd threaten to kill me or himself if I left. Two years ago we had a kid and since I got pregnant he has Made major strides towards ending his abuse. The problem is, he expects me to just get over all the things that have happened in the past and move on because he's changed. Since our kid was born, he has not called me any names or hurt me but he has done emotionally manipulative things such as letting me catch him talking to other women or being really secretive with his phone.

Recently he moved out of state for work and for the first time since I was 21, I feel ok. Not so stressed out that my hair is falling out and my stomach is in knots. He is supposed to be gone for a couple of years other than occasional visits and I don't know how to wrap my mind around him coming home. He has been very emotional since leaving telling me how much it's made him realize how amazing I am and how much he misses me..

I am really torn because I want to be free of him but I feel like my judgment is clouded. Part of that is because since he left, I met someone else and my feelings for him are making this more difficult.

Anyone ever been in a similar situation or left an abusive relationship? Should I give him the chance to make it right? Is that even possible when I'm pretty traumatized by our past?

Sorry to ramble!


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Personally I think once a man beats on his GF or wife there's no going back, you'll never get over it, he'll never be able to make up for it. It's the one thing worse than an affair and it's irreconcilable IMO.

But on the bright side with him leaving it's a perfect time to put your house in order and line up the time to divorce. Be careful though your husband sounds like a dangerous man who won't take well to you leaving. Good luck.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't think you should be seeing someone else, that is cheating on your husband unless you both decided you can see other people while he is away working for his family. 

Have you or are you in counseling getting help with coping since the abuse?

Does your husband know you are seeing another guy?

With being in an abusive relationship you need to focus on yourself and heal the damage that has been done long before you start another relationship, if you decide to give your husband another chance then you will need to 1. Get rid of the boy friend 2. sit him down on one of his visits and let him know how you feel and 3. what he needs to do to make the marriage work.

I'm not saying to stay with an abuser, but you were asking about giving him another chance. How is your husband going to react to you having a boyfriend? I think by seeing this other guy you have caused more harm to your marriage, and with your husband already being an abuser is getting a guy possibly hurt by your husband fair to either of them?


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

No, he doesn't know that I'm seeing someone and I know it's not right for me to do so. I imagine that if he knew, things would get very ugly very quickly. 

I do want to say that he's not away "working for his family" I support our entire household and our kid essentially on my own with very little help from him now that he's moved.

I think I just want to feel like someone actually cares about me and to spend time with someone I'm not afraid of.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I've looked into counseling options recently. I should probably follow through on that. I never went before because I knew they would just tell me to leave him..


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I so know how you feel about wanted to feel safe and I feel for you, with that said if you know that your husband will hurt this guy or you then you should make this guy aware of the possibility if he does not already know. With him being gone it will make it somewhat easy for you to get everything in order, can you move while he is gone or be moved right before he returns. 

I have been in counseling for the abuse I suffered, and will still see my therapist for trigger situations. You are going to need to be mentally strong when he returns, so if you can see a counselor, I would do it to help you prepare.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I need an outside view on my situation. I have been with my husband for a decade, most of which he was extremely emotionally, verbally and occasionally physically abusive.
> 
> ...


I'm in the process of leaving an abusive relationship, and I also have children with my abuser. The physical abuse ended a few years ago, and i thought we were in the clear.
It took me a while to see that the verbal, emotional, psychological, and financial abuse were ongoing and were just as hard to live with. 

Your abuse is ongoing. Triangulation is a control tactic, so is threatening to violence/suicide if you leave, and expecting you to just forget about the past. There's no remorse, because likely he's not sorry. The only way you should consider continuing to be in the relationship is if he will enter an abuser program. There is no shame in cutting your losses and divorcing now either. Domestic abuse is hell. Call your local domestic abuse hotline for the best advice in your area.

I'd read Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men 
It changed my life. Let me know if you can't get a copy, i can help.

Don't get into a new relationship now. Abuse victims can attract abusers or other unhealthy people. It's extremely likely that if you don't give yourself time to heal, that you will jump into another unhealthy relationship. You must rescue yourself. Good luck!


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I can't really move but I could make it so he can't move home. I really don't want to remove him from our child's life because he really has made immense changes. I just don't think I want to be married to him anymore.

I know that the majority of my doubts are planted there from years of hearing what would happen if I left but I still feel so conflicted.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> I can't really move but I could make it so he can't move home. I really don't want to remove him from our child's life because he really has made immense changes. I just don't think I want to be married to him anymore.
> 
> I know that the majority of my doubts are planted there from years of hearing what would happen if I left but I still feel so conflicted.


It happens to a lot of abuse victims. Too much control by another, leaves us less able to make decisions.

As long as he has never been abusive to the child, they can still be in each others lives. If he does make a change, and you decide to give it another try after divorce, that's always an option. 

I have felt much the same. I'm glad that my STBX made changes, but it was too little too late for us as a couple.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> I can't really move but I could make it so he can't move home. I really don't want to remove him from our child's life because he really has made immense changes. I just don't think I want to be married to him anymore.
> 
> I know that the majority of my doubts are planted there from years of hearing what would happen if I left but I still feel so conflicted.


He abused you for years, but the other fella isn't making this easier on you. I would drop both of them and get therapy, years of it and try to find a decent person, because right now you're married to a controlling abusive husband and dating a guy who is OK with shagging married women, both losers IMO.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I've seen that book come up a few times in my research on divorce. I will see if I can download it. Thank you.

I also talked to someone at the domestic abuse hotline who gave me some advice on how to ask for a divorce without letting myself get wrapped up in his suicide threats.

I feel so ****ed up emotionally that I don't know what's real. I definitely am not looking to start a serious relationship and put my child in any crazy situation but it feels so nice to be with someone who is affectionate and "normal" it's really hard to let that go but I will if it's best for my family.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> I've seen that book come up a few times in my research on divorce. I will see if I can download it. Thank you.
> 
> I also talked to someone at the domestic abuse hotline who gave me some advice on how to ask for a divorce without letting myself get wrapped up in his suicide threats.
> 
> I feel so ****ed up emotionally that I don't know what's real. I definitely am not looking to start a serious relationship and put my child in any crazy situation but it feels so nice to be with someone who is affectionate and "normal" it's really hard to let that go but I will if it's best for my family.


Those feelings are all normal. And i totally understand the draw to be with someone else. Someone kind.
I described those exact same "fvcked up emotionally" thoughts in my journal awhile ago. I said it felt like when you are swimming in the ocean and you go under a wave. There is no up or down, just chaos. All normal for your situation, average even. You will stabilize in time. His intent was to keep you feeling that way.

If the new guy is right for you, he will understand and wait until you are ready and free.

You cannot control what your husband will do. You can only control what you will do. If he threatens suicide, you can have him put on a psych hold. If he is intent on doing it, then you cannot stop him. But you cannot let it stand in the way of caring for yourself and especially your son.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

That's solid advice, thank you. The wave analogy is perfect. I have no idea what's right or real anymore. 

I talked to my husband last night on FaceTime and as I was looking at him talk to our son it makes me think I'm making a mistake but then I think about how much better I feel that if something started to go wrong, I could hang up the phone and be mostly safe. 

It's been months since he's had a blow up but I have realized lately how much time I spend waiting for it to happen.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Lostforbadwords said:


> It's been months since he's had a blow up but I have realized lately how much time I spend waiting for it to happen.


Do you realize that your husband loves you? He thinks you love him. Those emotional and physical outbursts are so rare in an otherwise great marriage. "Surely she knows it is just a small problem of mine and she can see I'm working on it. Plus, she loves me. She knows that's not me."

They do not understand that it is not just a blow-up for a minute or two then gone for weeks for YOU. That's only 0.00085% of the time he's an abuser. But it's 24-7 for someone in fear of that outburst.

Leave him. Go to your new man. It will allow you to finally be happy and you fix him (I call it "kick in the gut" therapy).. You stay? You remain miserable and he remains an abuser. He WILL blow up again: he's better, not perfect. Then you're both back to square one. 

Women don't come back from this. Mine didn't. You won't. There's only one thing to do. My wife chose the wrong way and now we're both miserable in our 50's. You have the power to allow you AND your husband to start over. To fix things. For both of you to start a new life. Nobody wins if you stay in a miserable marriage and cheat. EVERYBODY wins if you admit defeat, lick your wounds and move on.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Macho, why don't you leave if you're miserable? Why is it on your wife to fix this?


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> That's solid advice, thank you. The wave analogy is perfect. I have no idea what's right or real anymore.
> 
> I talked to my husband last night on FaceTime and as I was looking at him talk to our son it makes me think I'm making a mistake but then I think about how much better I feel that if something started to go wrong, I could hang up the phone and be mostly safe.
> 
> It's been months since he's had a blow up but I have realized lately how much time I spend waiting for it to happen.


it's a cycle of abuse, always a cycle. No one would stay for constant abuse, it's got to ebb and flow. DV victims say all the time, "but he's not being abusive right now". Until he is again. It was my line too. Once you get out, you will start to heal.

A divorce is only a piece of paper. It won't make him any less your child's father.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

Peole do and can change. Your judegment is very clouded, you are having an affair. You probably won't stop it either but you should. Marriages can be fixed if both are will to evolve and forgive. Good people make mistakes...just like what you are doing is a mistake. You created life together, it's a unique bond and one that never goes away. You feel like you could never love him again, that may not be true. How do you know unless you can forgive and try? When someone asks you what is most important to you, how do you answer? Is it family? If so, how does divorcing a man who shows remorse and wants to the husband you always wanted prove that claim true? 

You cannot be honest about anything when your heart is with soemone else though.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

knobcreek said:


> right now you're married to a controlling abusive husband and dating a guy who is OK with shagging married women, both losers IMO.


Wow. So what's gonna happen when your H finds out you're screwing another man? How are you going to deal with yourself if he attacks (or kills) your child first, in his anger?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Sorry, @Observer, abusers almost NEVER change. Only one man here admits to have been an abuser who changed and even he will tell you that it took his wife leaving him to give him the wake-up call he needed to get help and by then it was too late.

Trust is terribly difficult to build back. It takes years and it takes him BEING there to prove consistency. The stress of being a husband and father full time is likely more than he can manage. It's a lot easier to be wonderful for a few hours or a day at a time. He abused your trust; he abused you in many ways. If you really want peace, you need to separate, have a fair visitation schedule (be sure he's not abusing your child in ANY way) and seek counseling. Right now you are seeing a man who is willing to have an affair with a married woman. Is that the kind of man who has good character? Nope. 

Get your freedom and get your confidence back. Clear your head and start out fresh. Work on your triggers and boundaries. Then you'll be ready for a good relationship with a good man.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Observer said:


> Peole do and can change. Your judegment is very clouded, you are having an affair. You probably won't stop it either but you should. Marriages can be fixed if both are will to evolve and forgive. Good people make mistakes...just like what you are doing is a mistake. You created life together, it's a unique bond and one that never goes away. You feel like you could never love him again, that may not be true. How do you know unless you can forgive and try? When someone asks you what is most important to you, how do you answer? Is it family? If so, how does divorcing a man who shows remorse and wants to the husband you always wanted prove that claim true?
> 
> You cannot be honest about anything when your heart is with soemone else though.



Well, I have tried for 10 years to forgive and forget and it's becoming pretty obvious that it isn't working.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

turnera said:


> knobcreek said:
> 
> 
> > right now you're married to a controlling abusive husband and dating a guy who is OK with shagging married women, both losers IMO.
> ...


If I thought he was a danger to my child in any way, he wouldn't be anywhere near my kid. He's a great father (when he's around).

Also, is not really my intention to go bragging about having an affair. I'm aware of the fact that it wasn't my smartest choice but I do think I deserve to be happy. Maybe this isn't the smartest way to go about it but that doesn't change the root need I feel.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Lostforbadwords said:
> 
> 
> > It's been months since he's had a blow up but I have realized lately how much time I spend waiting for it to happen.
> ...


thank you Macho. It's interesting to get some insight into the other side. I wish he was that self aware.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> If I thought he was a danger to my child in any way, he wouldn't be anywhere near my kid. He's a great father (when he's around).


He's a great father when his WIFE isn't screwing another man!

WTH?!



> Also, is not really my intention to go bragging about having an affair. I'm aware of the fact that it wasn't my smartest choice but I do think I deserve to be happy. Maybe this isn't the smartest way to go about it but that doesn't change the root need I feel.


You deserve to be happy? Having an affair and putting your child in danger from AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND negates what you deserve.

You don't 'want' to leave your husband. But you want to screw another man. 

So basically, you have the best of all worlds - you get to keep your husband's money while he lives IN ANOTHER STATE, alone, away from his child, and you get to go out and screw another man. 

Do you see the recurring theme?

You are just being selfish. I started out on your side, but your unwillingness to either stop cheating or divorce has lost that.

Start thinking of your child, not yourself.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I love that I'm the bad guy now for seeking love after 10 years of being hit, belittled and abused.

He loves his son, that doesn't make him a good husband.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So do the grownup thing and divorce him.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

That's why I'm here asking for advice. So that I could talk to people who had left abusive relationships. You act like this is the simplest thing in the world.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You need to divorce your husband. He is abusive and you are unhappy. You do not need your husband as financial support as you are doing that already.

Dump this new lover. You are having an affair. This lover of yours is okay with married women. This speaks volumes of his character. You need to clear your head.

Continue with the therapy. You need to get your thinking process in the right direction. Don't begin your move towards healing and becoming your own person with an affair.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Observer said:


> Peole do and can change. Your judegment is very clouded, you are having an affair. You probably won't stop it either but you should. Marriages can be fixed if both are will to evolve and forgive. Good people make mistakes...just like what you are doing is a mistake. You created life together, it's a unique bond and one that never goes away. You feel like you could never love him again, that may not be true. How do you know unless you can forgive and try? When someone asks you what is most important to you, how do you answer? Is it family? If so, how does divorcing a man who shows remorse and wants to the husband you always wanted prove that claim true?
> 
> You cannot be honest about anything when your heart is with soemone else though.


People can and do change, but abusers are usually like that down to the quick. They can't change without doing a complete upheaval of their whole value system. It's not likely, and most of them can't begin the process unless you remove yourself from them.

Hitting your spouse once might be a mistake. Abusing them over and over is intentional. 
To forget is to let your guard down. Forgetting is not an option conducive to survival with people that feel entitled to abuse.



Lostforbadwords said:


> Well, I have tried for 10 years to forgive and forget and it's becoming pretty obvious that it isn't working.


no sweat OP. I was beaten regularly for a little more than 3 years. I can't forget either. 

I can let the hurt go. I can try to get along for co parenting. He doesn't show any remorse, but I forgive him in that I've let go of my anger and hate. For now, that's the best I can do. If there is more than that, it is further down the road for me.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

For ****s sake. It's not the best of both worlds. My husband chose to move to another state and since he moved, HE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO ME OR MY CHILD. I am educated and have a full time job as well as caring for our child alone. 

Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

It's terrible that he was abusive toward you, I would never stand for that, you shouldn't have stayed with him so long! 

But, the fact that you are cheating is also terrible. He "was" abusive and you are a cheater. Both of you are wrong, no? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Since you brought a child in to the world, do what is best for your and your child's future and well-being. Your primary responsibility is to your kid.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> For ****s sake. It's not the best of both worlds. My husband chose to move to another state and since he moved, HE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO ME OR MY CHILD. I am educated and have a full time job as well as caring for our child alone.
> 
> Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


I understand OP. He is not the victim.

I can't know, but i think turnera is concerned. You are in an abusive relationship, you have a small child, and you are having an affair. You are putting your child in a place of great danger to have your own needs met. 

I'm sure that was not your goal, but it increases your danger as well as your child's. This means that your timeline must speed up. Ditch the affair partner, start the divorce process. Above all, protect yourself and your son.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


You need to be opened to all comments. Evaluate them as it applies to you. That's the reason that you are here. A common thread will run through postings in TAM and that is "don't start a new beginning with an affair".

People will judge you, like it or not. Apparently, it bothers you. So don't start your new life as an adulteress. Start your new life as an independent, confident, and strong woman.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Macho, why don't you leave if you're miserable? Why is it on your wife to fix this?


This isn't about me. We all have our own personal reasons for staying or going.

And it WAS on my wife to fix it when she knew it was a problem and I didn't. Instead she chose to walk emotionally and not tell me. I'm trying to get the OP to NOT do the same thing. Everyone loses if she does. Now, for MY reasons and MY reason's only, it's too late. It may not be for her. 

But if it is (and I suspect it is), she needs to know that staying for HIM is a mistake. Every day she keeps from fixing him and not letting him start the grieving process is one more day she takes away from the rest of his life. 

You already KNOW that's the case with your life, OP. So fix it for both of you. You have the power. He doesn't.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> That's why I'm here asking for advice. So that I could talk to people who had left abusive relationships. You act like this is the simplest thing in the world.


He doesn't even live in your state! In the world of abused women, that's just about the BEST possible situation in which you can divorce him.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> He doesn't even live in your state! In the world of abused women, that's just about the BEST possible situation in which you can divorce him.


QFT

If you are financially independant as well, i can't imagine that you will get a better time to get out of the relationship.

It's a golden goose.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I have no problem with comments that talk about my affair being a mistake. I understand that. I do resent comments that make it sound like my husband is supporting me while I stay home and **** someone else.

I appreciate the different point of views available to me here, that's why I posted in the first place.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> For ****s sake. It's not the best of both worlds. My husband chose to move to another state and since he moved, HE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO ME OR MY CHILD. I am educated and have a full time job as well as caring for our child alone.
> 
> Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


Nobody said he was a victim.

We said YOU are doing the wrong thing.

Big difference.

You want your child to grow up to be proud of you? Stop cheating, divorce your abusive husband, get therapy, and move on and find a NEW man - down the road - who IS NOT OK SCREWING MARRIED WOMEN.

Don't bring THAT man into your child's life. He's no better than the man who abused you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> I have no problem with comments that talk about my affair being a mistake. I understand that. I do resent comments that make it sound like my husband is supporting me while I stay home and **** someone else.
> 
> I appreciate the different point of views available to me here, that's why I posted in the first place.


I apologize for assuming you were staying on his money. Now that I know you aren't, there is NO REASON for you to stay married. My guess is you stay because it's easier, you don't have to deal with his fallout if you leave. BTDT. For 35 years. Don't be like me. You only get one life. Don't make yours one in which you stayed an abuse victim (and he WILL start hitting you again) or a cheater.

Be more than that. For your child. Find a REAL man out there after you've divorced.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> > He doesn't even live in your state! In the world of abused women, that's just about the BEST possible situation in which you can divorce him.
> ...


I agree, that is why I'm trying to wrap my mind around it. I have no one to talk to about it because pretty much no one knows that I've been in this situation all this time.

It's still really scary. He's been my whole life for a decade. I've been distanced from my friends and family, with the excpetion of the ones he allowed, the majority of the time we've been together. 

Rationally, I understand that I am in a unique situation that finally allows me to get out and in thankful for that. It doesn't mean it's not a hard decision.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The first thing you need to do, then, is tell someone. A parent, a friend, a cousin. Tell someone. They'll understand why you distanced yourself, once you explain, and they'll welcome you back. And help you.

And in the meantime, read this book:
Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

I downloaded the book today and will start reading it.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Your marriage won't be saved if you don't stop the affair and you don't want to. He isn't going to make REAL changes because he doesn't HAVE to. 

Leaving an abuser while living in the marital home is very hard. I had to pack boxes with him hovering over me alternately yelling, crying, being verbally abusive then turning around and trying to cajole me into staying. If it weren't for the fact I already had a restraining order and had one day to pack for movers to come the next day, he likely would have been physical but knew better.

This is as easy as it's going to get. Do you own the home together or do you rent? I assume he has a place and furniture and pretty much has another life. In fact, I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if he's living the same double life YOU are.

Yes, you deserve to be loved and treated nicely. But a man who is having an affair with a married women is NOT a good man. It's a nice arrangement for him. 

Consult with an attorney and follow their advice. Ask if you can change the locks. Make sure banking accounts are separate. If you are afraid, tell the attorney that. They might file a restraining order depending on the laws. (Here it has to be a recent threat as in two week's if I recall correctly.) Then follow through. Get a counselor. He'll likely threaten and be ugly at first, then brutally cold. Maybe threaten some more. It will take a while for things to settle down. And DO NOT keep seeing this man. You shouldn't have a crutch relationship and that's what it is. And it's bad for you to be having an affair - legally, as a parent, for your mental health... Learn to be you. On your own. Heal. Then move on.

You think he's good for you because he's kind and doesn't hit you. But he is Fing a MARRIED WOMAN. His moral compass is WRONG. Get yours straight and get your life straight before you bring anyone else into. For your best interest and the best interest of your child.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Add me to the been there, done that camp. And while I wasn't cheating physically, I started talking to someone after HE told me he didn't want the marriage anymore but before I had moved out (was waiting on the kids to finish the school year.)

Consult an attorney ASAP. That is really your number one step. Tell him everything, including the affair. He/she needs to know EVERYTHING that is going on, do not hide a single thing from him/her. Ask them about restraining orders, supervised visitation (whether you think your child is in harms way or not,) and ask about his relative's possible visitation. And go from there. File the paperwork and have your H served as soon as possible. Change locks if atty agrees you should (should be able to if a restraining order is in place.) Make sure that any and all day cares or schools have a copy of said restraining order. Temporary orders can be placed in a hurry and are there to protect from backlash. They can ALWAYS be amended or done away with once things have calmed down.

As far as the other man goes......trust me, it wont last. Just see it for what it is now and save yourself the heartbreak. It's a rebound, plain and simple, that you are using to get your emotional needs met. Step two will be to start counseling ASAP. You need to learn to love yourself and meet your own emotional needs. If you do not do that, you will likely find yourself in another abusive relationship down the road. The "relationship" you are in now is not a healthy one. Your goal is to be healthy emotionally so you can raise an emotionally healthy child.

No judgment here. I understand because I've been in a similar place. If I could go back and talk to the weaker me.....

But know this.....it WILL all be ok. As long as you put YOURSELF and YOUR CHILD first. He can have a relationship with his father, but first things first. 1. Attorney, and follow through with everything they tell you to do. 2. Counseling, and see this "relationship" for what it is.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Thank you. It's good to see that it is possible to get out and maybe I'm not making the wrong decision after all.

I wrote my doctor this morning to see about getting in to see a counselor and I'll go from there.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Atty. Yes, you can get out. OUT is priority. You will be much more clear with a solid direction. Talk to one today if you can.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> My husband... was extremely emotionally, verbally and occasionally physically abusive.... he'd threaten to kill me or himself if I left.


LFBW, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, lack of empathy, temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he might exhibit strong traits of it, regardless of whether it is sufficiently severe to constitute having full-blown BPD..

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reason for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion -- and help you avoid running into the arms of another man who is just like the one you left.



> My husband was... occasionally physically abusive.


If your H is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD.



> The problem is, he expects me to just get over all the things that have happened in the past and move on because he's changed.


If he is a BPDer, he has the ability to flip from one emotional state (e.g., hating you) to another in just a few seconds -- as though his brain has simply thrown a switch. This occurs because BPDers are so immature they cannot tolerate having to deal with two strong conflicting feelings. They therefore put one of the feelings (e.g., love for you) totally out of reach of their conscious minds. A few hours or days later, when that loving feeling has been triggered, a BPDer can flip back just as quickly -- thus putting the hateful feelings out of his conscious mind. 

The result is that a BPDer will be mystified that you are not able to do the same thing. My BPDer exW, for example, could throw a temper tantrum for five hours and then, in an instant, be ready to jump into bed and have sex with me. She thought my inability to turn on a dime, like she did, was evidence that I was always "holding grudges."



> I feel so ****ed up emotionally that I don't know what's real.


Not knowing _"what's real"_ is exactly how you should be feeling if you've lived with a BPDer for ten years. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the AMA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious -- by far -- for making most of the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. Indeed, therapists see far more of those folks coming in (to find out if they are going crazy) than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

This "crazy making" behavior of BPDers is so well known that the "Nons" (i.e., nonBPD partners) have given it a name: _gaslighting_. It is named after the classic 1944 movie "Gaslight," in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to get her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels. One of his many tricks is to turn the home's gas lights down a tiny bit every day -- all the while claiming that he is able to see and read just fine.

Actually, the vast majority of the crazy making behavior of BPDers is not really intended to make you feel crazy. Rather, it is the result of their subconscious minds protecting their fragile egos by projecting all their mistakes and shortcomings onto their spouses. 

The beauty of projection -- and the reason that BPDers rely on it so heavily -- is that it occurs entirely at the subconscious level, allowing the BPDers to be adamantly convinced the projections are true. Hence, unlike lies (which BPDers will do when trapped), the projections are entirely guilt free -- an important attribute to folks who are filled with so much self loathing that guilt is a very painful experience.

I mention all of this to explain why it is so confusing and disorienting to live with a BPDer. Namely, the confusion largely arises because the BPDer partners sincerely believe the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths. The nonBPD partners therefore are left thinking that they must have done something wrong to cause their spouses to be so upset. 



> I've looked into counseling options recently.


If your H really is a BPDer, it is prudent to restrict your search to a psychologist who can treat you as an individual. When a spouse has strong BPD traits, couples counseling almost certainly would be a total waste of time until the BPDer has had several years of therapy to address his more serious issues.



> I need an outside view on my situation.


My view is that you are making a wise decision to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your young child are dealing with. I suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, LFBW.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Uptown, it has been suggested before that he does have BPD. We got the book "I hate you, don't leave me" a few years ago which was kind of the beginning of him getting better.

About a year ago, he went to a shrink and got medicated but either she doesn't think he has BPD or he isn't telling her everything because she is medicating him for depression and ADHD. He was getting better before the meds and has been better since but like I said, kind of too little too late.

Thank you for the information on BPD. I know that it's unlikely that he is able to be the person I need him to be.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Lostforbadwords said:


> For ****s sake. It's not the best of both worlds. My husband chose to move to another state and since he moved, HE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO ME OR MY CHILD. I am educated and have a full time job as well as caring for our child alone.
> 
> Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


I would have though that constituted abandonment, which would be easy grounds for divorce in any state. He doesn't get to not contribute towards his child. 

I really think you need to speak with a lawyer on this matter alone, whether it's included in a divorce is up to you.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

My state is a no fault state so I don't know how much of this will matter. I was hoping to do this without spending 20k to divorce him but I did speak to a lawyer friend of mine about the process. I didn't tell her any of the abuse background though so I guess my next step after counseling is to find an attorney.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I was in an abusive marriage, had kids, and also cheated. I've been where you are, only I didn't have a job or any money of my own. 

I got a divorce. Leaving my ex was the best decision I could have possibly made for myself and my kids. The only thing I regret is staying as long as I did.

I didn't divorce my ex because of my AP, but having my AP gave me the will I needed to come out of my coping zombie stupor and actually do something.

My AP and I ended up staying together. Tomorrow is our 13th wedding anniversary and the 19th will mark 16 years as a couple.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> About a year ago, he went to a shrink and got medicated but either she doesn't think he has BPD or he isn't telling her everything.


A third possibility is that she believes he exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits but, for his own protection, is withholding that information from him (and from you). I mention this because it is common for therapists to refuse to tell a high-functioning client (and his spouse) the true name of his primary disorder when it is BPD. Instead, they will tell him and his insurance company the name of a co-occurring clinical disorder (such as depression, anxiety, PTSD, ADHD, or bipolar). 

Unlike BPD, those clinical disorders typically are covered by insurance. There also are several other reasons why the main diagnosis is withheld from the client and insurance company. If you're interested, see my post at Loath to Diagnose. This is why, when BPD is involved, your best chance for obtaining a candid opinion on your spouse's issues is to see _your own psychologist_, i.e., a professional who has not treated or seen your H. In that way, you can be sure the professional is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not those of your H.



> She is medicating him for depression and ADHD.


A recent large-scale study found that the vast majority of BPD sufferers also suffer from another PD as well as one or two of the clinical disorders. As to the adult ADHD diagnosis, I note that some psychologists believe _adult ADHD _(Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) may be the same thing as -- or perhaps a subset of -- BPD (see, e.g., Adult ADHD and BPD). 

As to his depression diagnosis, I note that 32% of BPDers also suffer from Major Depressive Disorder and 75% of BPDers have a mood disorder of some type. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> I was in an abusive marriage, had kids, and also cheated. I've been where you are, only I didn't have a job or any money of my own.
> 
> I got a divorce. Leaving my ex was the best decision I could have possibly made for myself and my kids. The only thing I regret is staying as long as I did.
> 
> ...


I guess that is where I am at too. Between being semi free for the first time in years and the man I'm seeing, I feel like I have a glimpse of what being happy could mean.

I don't know that he's the one for me and if it is best for my family to end it with him then that is what I'll do since my son comes first but I don't necessarily think that's my only option right this minute.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Uptown,

That's really interesting about the diagnosis of BPD. I will be candid with my new therapist and see what their opinion is. 

In your opinion does the treatment of these other problems treat the larger problem of BPD long term?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Does the treatment of these other problems treat the larger problem of BPD long term?


No, those "clinical" disorders typically are diseases that can be treated with medication. In contrast, BPD is not believed to be a disease. Indeed, none of the personality disorders are viewed as diseases. Instead, strong BPD traits are believed to arise from a stunted emotional development (frozen at about the level of a 4 year old) that -- absent years of training -- leaves the BPDer unable to regulate his own emotions. 

Hence, the BPDer cannot overcome this deficiency in emotional development by simply swallowing a pill. What is needed is several years (at least) of intensive training (e.g., CBT and DBT) that teaches the BPDer the mature emotional skills he had no opportunity to learn earlier. These include, e.g., how to manage his emotions, how to do self soothing, how to remain in the moment instead of escaping into daydreams about past and future, how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate ambiguities and uncertainties, and how to intellectually challenge an intense feeling instead of accepting it as a self-evident "fact."

Although the prescribed meds cannot make a dent in the BPD traits themselves, those meds can make it easier for him to undergo treatment by calming him or by reducing his depression. That is, by treating the co-occurring clinical disorders, the meds can make him better prepared to take on the training needed to acquire emotional skills. 

Unfortunately, however, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength required to be willing to stay in therapy long enough to make a real difference. With respect to the high functioning BPDers (e.g., those who are able to hold jobs), I would be surprised if as many as 1 in 100 are able to accomplish that.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

He's definitely never stayed in therapy longer than a few weeks in the past. This is the longest he's stayed medicated and honestly I've been pretty surprised he was willing to even start let alone continue taking them.

He seems very "converted" since starting the meds. Before he left he suggested that I talk to a doctor about getting some anti-anxiety meds because of my extreme stress related responses like my hair falling out, eczema and IBS flare ups. Most of which have gotten better or completely cleared up since he left.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yoga.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

If he has a mental issue then I think it's even worse what you are doing. At least you can point to a reason he did the things he did, that should help forgive. But, you are blinded by the affair so nothing anyone says will matter. Maybe he dis not understand his illness until now? It's a pretty confusing and scary thing for a man to accept. It sounds like he has and is trying to get himself right for you and your child...and himself. But, then again, I don't know him, just what you write. Maybe I am way off, only you can answer that honestly and I don't think you can be honest while obsessing about another man.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Observer said:


> If he has a mental issue then I think it's even worse what you are doing. At least you can point to a reason he did the things he did, that should help forgive. But, you are blinded by the affair so nothing anyone says will matter. Maybe he dis not understand his illness until now? It's a pretty confusing and scary thing for a man to accept. It sounds like he has and is trying to get himself right for you and your child...and himself. But, then again, I don't know him, just what you write. Maybe I am way off, only you can answer that honestly and I don't think you can be honest while obsessing about another man.


Do you think him having a good reason to hit her would help? If you are being verbally and physically abused the fact that the abuser has a mental issue doesn't relieve the pain any. 

Being abused is a pretty scary thing for a woman to accept, even more so when the abuse is coming from the person she should be able to rely on above all others. 

She has a responsibility to herself and her son to remove them both from any dangerous situation regardless of it's source.

He has now left her without any support and moved to another state. He isn't sending money back for her and his son to live on, he has completely walked out on his obligations.

But if she is blinded by the affair and the fact that someone wants to be with her without hitting or yelling at her then let's put all the blame on her for being so weak and not holding up to her end of the marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lostforbadwords said:


> For ****s sake. It's not the best of both worlds. My husband chose to move to another state and since he moved, HE DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO ME OR MY CHILD. I am educated and have a full time job as well as caring for our child alone.
> 
> Stop making him out to be the victim here. I want to divorce him, I don't know if I am doing the right thing but it's apparently really easy for people who have never been in my shoes to judge me.


Yes, you are doing the right thing by divorcing him.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Thank you again WonkyNinja for being a voice of reason. You pretty much summed up my feelings.

No, Observer, I don't think the fact that he's trying to treat his mental illness is enough to excuse all his past abuses. Even as messed up as I am and unsure of where I stand, I do know that there is no excuse good enough to make all of that ok.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Observer said:


> If he has a mental issue then I think it's even worse what you are doing. *At least you can point to a reason he did the things he did, that should help forgive.* But, you are blinded by the affair so nothing anyone says will matter. Maybe he dis not understand his illness until now?* It's a pretty confusing and scary thing for a man to accept.* It sounds like he has and is trying to get himself right for you and your child...and himself. But, then again, I don't know him, just what you write. Maybe I am way off, only you can answer that honestly and I don't think you can be honest while obsessing about another man.


That there was a reason he beat me for so long, did not help me forgive my abuser. I felt elation, at finally figuring out which way was up, and despair. Mine won't go to counseling, he will not attend an abuser program. He will never get help. It was truly the end of us. I could no longer consider being with someone who wouldn't and couldn't ever change in the long term.

huh? It's confusing and scary for a man who has abused the woman he proclaims to love most in the world, to accept that his strong desire to control and manipulate and be violent might be caused by a personality disorder? 
A good percentage of abusers have a personality disorder. It takes a special squirrel to beat family members. I don't think the PD excuses them from their behavior, only explains it. 

The abuser is traditionally not the one on the confusing and scary side of things. What a crock.

I agree that she shouldn't be having an affair. It's dangerous, and it's wrong. Bad news all around. The new guy is scum too, preying on a married abuse victim. I'm right there with you on only that point.

But i remember a few years back, right after Mr.68 broke a few bones in my thumb because i told him not to hit me. A guy at my work made some advances, which i rejected immediately. And it was so difficult to turn my back on that offer. He wasn't even a nice guy. It didn't matter. You get so starved for someone to show you any small dose of humanity. to be kind even for a minute. 
I don't think that an affair is the right thing to do, but unlike the abuse, i can at least understand it. In my mind, it makes sense like a revenge affair does. Morally wrong, but rational.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

sixty-eight said:


> That there was a reason he beat me for so long, did not help me forgive my abuser. I felt elation, at finally figuring out which way was up, and despair. Mine won't go to counseling, he will not attend an abuser program. He will never get help. It was truly the end of us. I could no longer consider being with someone who wouldn't and couldn't ever change in the long term.


EXACTLY. The behavior violated the most basic trust that should exist between a couple. You can't build/maintain an intimate relationship when there is any level of fear - fear of physical injury OR fear of ridicule, humiliation, etc. Mine wouldn't seek counseling; only attended anger management because it was part of the program when I got a restraining order. 

OP, hopefully it doesn't cost 20K. Really, if you can go through mediation and settle the financial end of things and agree to a standard visitation, it might be very straight forward. However, here are some tips to tuck into your hat of tricks.

- Seek counseling for you and your child/children. I don't recall if you have stated # of children or ages but if they are old enough to benefit, a few visits never hurts. Your insurance should cover it. I found it very useful to help parent better. I learned good ways to discuss the divorce and the changes my daughter would be experiencing and had a sounding board if I needed advice on how to address any issues she was experiencing or the difficult questions she asked. 

- Tell friends, family, school/daycare and your workplace that you will be divorcing. It doesn't have to be dramatic or include any personal details, but just in case he acts out, it's best they are aware. If your child is in daycare or school it's important they know as well and what the parameters are (i.e. can't pick them up, etc.)

- Consulting an attorney doesn't mean you have to HIRE them. Sometimes it's free, other times it's a reasonable fee. But it's a good way to learn the best way to move forward. Plus consulting a few different ones will tell you who is overly aggressive, who is too lenient/not tough enough, who is realistic... the best advice I got was: "If HE doesn't think it's fair and YOU don't think it's fair, it's probably fair." When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

- Preparing for a 'fight' doesn't mean it will happen. But it's better to be prepared than surprised. Get your ducks in a row. Live in a glass house. Be prepared to justify everything you do/every decision you make. 

My ex stole my journal. One of my entries said I wished he would die. He mentioned that in court (custody) saying HE was the one who feared for his life. The Judge asked if I had written that. I said "Yes, I did. I don't think there is one woman alive who had an abusive relationship who didn't wish their abuser dead at one time or another." It turned out to not be an issue at all. I was able to justify it with a simple truism. So being able to justify yourself doesn't mean you have to be perfect; just a normal human. And the counseling shows you are willing to better yourself.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

You two ladies are projecting your own awful circumstances onto this situation I think. She said there were incidents of physical abuse. While no physical abuse is good, that seems a bit different than the guy who comes home and hits his wife on a weekly basis. That is not even my point though, my point is she cannot make any rational decisions while in an affair.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

see below


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Thank you again WonkyNinja for being a voice of reason. You pretty much summed up my feelings.
> 
> No, Observer, I don't think the fact that he's trying to treat his mental illness is enough to excuse all his past abuses. Even as messed up as I am and unsure of where I stand, I do know that there is no excuse good enough to make all of that ok.


So why did it take you getting into an affair to figure this out? I'm not saying don't divorce him if that is what you want, all I'm saying is the affair fog is certainly affecting your judgement. Make decisions in the right frame of mind, not one that is clouded. Like I said earlier, you are going to do what you want to do, that is just my 2 cents.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I need an outside view on my situation. I have been with my husband for a decade, most of which he was extremely emotionally, verbally and occasionally physically abusive.
> 
> ...





Observer said:


> You two ladies are projecting your own awful circumstances onto this situation I think. She said there were incidents of physical abuse. While no physical abuse is good, that seems a bit different than the guy who comes home and hits his wife on a weekly basis. That is not even my point though, my point is she cannot make any rational decisions while in an affair.


See above OPs original post: *"he has done emotionally manipulative things such as letting me catch him talking to other women or being really secretive with his phone"*... if she were a guy all of the men on here would be telling him to go to CWI, start surveillance, get phone records, etc etc etc. He's using emotional blackmail.

He wants to rugsweep. He MUST address the abuse to make her feel safe. He MUST acknowledge the harm to her psyche he has done. He hasn't. Just as a cheater must show remorse and address the affair, he has to, too. Can you imagine a cheater saying that's in the past just get over it?

I agree her affair should end as I've said all along. And sure, he looks rosey in comparison. But being so stressed out by her husband's behavior that her hair is falling out is a REAL reaction that was before she started seeing this guy. I don't think this is a typical "grass is greener" WAW. She thinks she has found safety and comfort. She needs to make that on her own, but that doesn't make her husband less of an abuser.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

EnjoliWoman said:


> See above OPs original post: *"he has done emotionally manipulative things such as letting me catch him talking to other women or being really secretive with his phone"*... if she were a guy all of the men on here would be telling him to go to CWI, start surveillance, get phone records, etc etc etc. He's using emotional blackmail.
> 
> He wants to rugsweep. He MUST address the abuse to make her feel safe. He MUST acknowledge the harm to her psyche he has done. He hasn't. Just as a cheater must show remorse and address the affair, he has to, too. Can you imagine a cheater saying that's in the past just get over it?


Wait...I agree with you. If he is in fact rug sweeping and not addressing what he has done, I agree. I guess I did not get that from what she wrote. It sounded like he has tried to address the issue and is trying to get himself well and not be that person he was. In any case, she is convinced she cannot forgive him and it's to late. Why? Why now? The answer is obvious, thinking otherwise is also rug sweeping.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Observer said:


> You two ladies are projecting your own awful circumstances onto this situation I think. She said there were incidents of physical abuse. *While no physical abuse is good, that seems a bit different than the guy who comes home and hits his wife on a weekly basis.* That is not even my point though, my point is she cannot make any rational decisions while in an affair.


i have been married for almost 8 years.

the first 3 years the abuse was physical, verbal, financial, emotional, psychological. The primary was physical
We also had 2 mysterious birth control failures right at the times when i tried to leave him, both resulting in pregnancies. The next 2 1/2 years he was limited to financial, psychological, and emotional, because of our living arrangements

The last 2 years verbal and psychological have been primary. Honestly? what he's doing now is worse than when he hit me. At least it was straightforward. everyone can see that hitting is bad. Now it's underhanded and sneaky, manipulative. It lets people say things like this.

_*"While no physical abuse is good, that seems a bit different than the guy who comes home and hits his wife on a weekly basis."
*_
So maybe i'm projecting, but i doubt it. She's describing elements of control that are present in their relationship now. She says he is unremorseful about past incidents. There are other types of abuse other than physical, and abusers are highly capable of adapting and switching between them to fit their current scenario. 

And i am in full agreement with you about the affair. As i stated above, i believe that is the one thing we both agree on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Observer said:


> So why did it take you getting into an affair to figure this out? I'm not saying don't divorce him if that is what you want, all I'm saying is the affair fog is certainly affecting your judgement. Make decisions in the right frame of mind, not one that is clouded. Like I said earlier, you are going to do what you want to do, that is just my 2 cents.


The way to do this is to divorce, but ALSO to never have any form of contact with your AP ever again. That way, you didn't divorce just to be with your AP.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

It isn't just my affair that has brought me to this realization. It was the almost instantaneous relief I felt the day he left. Also, the new man does not know that I've been abused for the last 10 years so it's not like he's preying on me like has been said in previous comments. While I'm messed up, I'm also an adult and went into this knowingly. I know that doesn't make it right but I honestly was just expecting to get some release and have fun. I wasn't expecting to have feelings for him and yes, part of that is feeling safe and wanted with him.

I know that my husband has made efforts to change but even though he's done that, he still is manipulative and untrustworthy and it doesn't make everything in the past go away. And just because he didn't hit me every day doesn't mean he didn't abuse me every day. If you could hear some of the things he has said, you would know that hitting is not always the worst thing someone can do.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Observer said:


> Wait...I agree with you. If he is in fact rug sweeping and not addressing what he has done, I agree. I guess I did not get that from what she wrote. It sounded like he has tried to address the issue and is trying to get himself well and not be that person he was. In any case, she is convinced she cannot forgive him and it's to late. Why? Why now? The answer is obvious, thinking otherwise is also rug sweeping.


some of the why now is obvious, the affair.

but you failed to address several other reasons why she's strong enough now.



Lostforbadwords said:


> Hi all,
> *I stuck around because he always promised he would change or he'd threaten to kill me or himself if I left.
> *
> The problem is, he expects me to just get over all the things that have happened in the past and move on because he's changed.
> ...





Lostforbadwords said:


> I agree, that is why I'm trying to wrap my mind around it. I have no one to talk to about it because pretty much no one knows that I've been in this situation all this time.
> 
> It's still really scary. He's been my whole life for a decade. *I've been distanced from my friends and family, with the excpetion of the ones he allowed, the majority of the time we've been together.*





Lostforbadwords said:


> my extreme stress related responses like my hair falling out, eczema and IBS flare ups. *Most of which have gotten better or completely cleared up since he left.*


with him leaving, you can clearly see that he is unable to maintain the state of health and isolation that his abuse puts her in.

She has also talked to the abuse hotline about his suicidal threats.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Also, the new man does not know that I've been abused for the last 10 years so it's not like he's preying on me like has been said in previous comments.


Sorry, i guess i just made that assumption. He does know you are married though, right?




turnera said:


> The way to do this is to divorce, but ALSO to never have any form of contact with your AP ever again. That way, you didn't divorce just to be with your AP.


:iagree:
If i could love what turnera said, instead of just like it, i would. If you leave him for the AP, then you are not divorcing because of the abuse.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Thank you Enjoli and 68, for sharing your experiences. I am sorry that we have some of this in common.

I honestly can give my husband credit for trying to get better. The reason I posted was because I think 1. He still is doing abusive things and 2. Even if he wasn't, I don't know if it's possible to get over what he's done in the past.

He and I talked last night about our future and his reaction was pretty much "I've said I'm sorry, what else do you want" and then he cried the rest of the conversation. I don't know what to do in that situation either. I do love him but it seems insurmountable.

I have an appointment with a therapist next week. I guess we will see how I can deal with things once I can really finally
Tell someone all of it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Print out this thread and hand it to your therapist.


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Sorry







i guess i just made that assumption. He does know you are married though, right?

Yes, he does know I'm married. I am not brushing that part under the rug and honestly, I really don't think he and I are cut out to be together long term plus I would never rush to introduce anyone new into my sons life especially during a time where his father is gone and going into a unsettled time like us getting a divorce.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

sixty-eight said:


> But i remember a few years back, right after Mr.68 broke a few bones in my thumb because i told him not to hit me. A guy at my work made some advances, which i rejected immediately. And it was so difficult to turn my back on that offer. He wasn't even a nice guy. It didn't matter. You get so starved for someone to show you any small dose of humanity. to be kind even for a minute.
> .


This is the part some people don't get and why abuse is one of the few times I excuse an affair. I don't like it, still think it is wrong, but I understand why it came to happen and hard to turn down. 

Abuse is not like teasing or insults. It is a dark cloud that permeates your entire life. No, not even a so called henpecked husband is the same. Everything you do is tied up in what can I do to not get hit, yelled at, punished or hurt. Then add a kid and it doubles to protect your child. 

We give cheaters the fog, abuse is that tenfold IMO. 

Even when a crappy person, you know is terrible, gives you a modicum of respect, some people fall for them.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Thank you Enjoli and 68, for sharing your experiences. I am sorry that we have some of this in common.
> 
> I honestly can give my husband credit for trying to get better. The reason I posted was because I think 1. He still is doing abusive things and 2. Even if he wasn't, I don't know if it's possible to get over what he's done in the past.
> 
> ...


Crying for most men is not easy, thus I would say he has tremendous remorse. Nonetheless, clearly if he is still doing the same things what he lacks is the tools to understand how to stop. When you don't know something, it's pretty impossible to fix. He needs to read, he needs to see a very good counselor. Not for you, for himself. 

Please google affair fog and get a handle on what is really going on with yourself right now. It's all related and there is no doubt it's affecting your judgement. You are simply in denial. You deserve better than what you had and you deserve to be happy, that is undeniable. Love is forgiveness and understanding. It takes two people to having a loving marriage. You cannot imagine forgiving him now, that is understandable. With time though, if you both work on things in a healthy way and you really do love each other, you could forgive and move forward. It's all a choice. Remember this too. Everyone puts on a good front when they are first together, you do not know this other man. You know things about him, but you do not know him. Also, everyone has skeletons and men are men. Most of us have no clue about women or how immature our actions really are until we get older. Life is not a movie and rare is the man who has done nothing wrong. A wise man is one who learns from mistakes and tries to improve himself. A fool is the one who thinks he has done no wrong and refuses to change.

Good luck, I really mean that.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Lostforbadwords said:


> Thank you Enjoli and 68, for sharing your experiences. I am sorry that we have some of this in common.
> 
> I honestly can give my husband credit for trying to get better. The reason I posted was because I think 1. He still is doing abusive things and 2. Even if he wasn't, I don't know if it's possible to get over what he's done in the past.
> 
> ...


i'm sorry too, it's not a fun club to belong to.

i'm glad you're seeing a therapist. Make sure you disclose everything, it's the only way to make the most of the session. I like turnera's idea of printing out the thread, or if you wanted, just to type out your own story. 

Getting over abuse, should be similar to getting over infidelity. There should be remorse, full disclosure, setting appropriate boundaries, rebuilding trust, etc. I don't see any of that coming from him. Rugsweep is definitely the word for that.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Observer said:


> Crying for most men is not easy, thus I would say he has tremendous remorse.


HA!
Do you know any abusers?

i've seen the fake cry only about a million times. Bawling on the kitchen floor, saying that if i leave him he will hunt down my entire family. I can't leave, because he needs me. Don't i care about my marriage vows? He will kill himself, he will kill the dog, threats, blah blah blah.

talented actors can make real tears fall. Abusers can get Oscar worthy. Threaten to call the cops, and they can turn to angry on a dime.

Actions, not words and crocodile tears are the real tell.

Saying, i said i was sorry, why aren't you over it? is not remorseful. Continuing the controlling behavior is not remorseful.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Abusers cry for various reasons that have nothing to do with remorse.
Here's a few:
Self pity
Fear
Anger
Manipulation


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## mitchell (May 19, 2014)

It seems obvious to me that your husband has already left you and your child. He moved out of the state to take a job that offers no financial reward or support for you or your child. How do he or you reconcile this decision?

Get on with your life and divorce this abuser who has now abandoned his wife and child.

Is your affair emotional or are you having sex with your AP?


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## Lostforbadwords (Dec 8, 2015)

Yeah, I am 99% sure this crying was the same as all the other times he has cried and begged/threatened me to stay. 

I encouraged him to take this job despite it not benefitting me financially, because I knew it would give me a breather. I wasn't honestly expecting anything that has happened since then to happen. I didn't think I would get such immediate relief from my physical symptoms and I wasn't intending on starting an affair when we discussed him leaving either.

As far as my affair goes, It started out as just sex. Now we have some emotional attachment happening. I was looking for some connection with someone and got more than I bargained for.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lostforbadwords said:


> I encouraged him to take this job despite it not benefitting me financially, because I knew it would give me a breather. I wasn't honestly expecting anything that has happened since then to happen. I didn't think I would get such immediate relief from my physical symptoms and I wasn't intending on starting an affair when we discussed him leaving either.


 See you knew it was time to end the marriage.




> As far as my affair goes, It started out as just sex. Now we have some emotional attachment happening. I was looking for some connection with someone and got more than I bargained for.


No, you knew it would break the marriage. What you didn't expect was to feel guilt.

Own your guilt and move on. No, the affair wasn't right, but abuse is not equivalent to an affair no matter how much some people want it to be..


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

sixty-eight said:


> HA!
> Do you know any abusers?
> 
> i've seen the fake cry only about a million times. Bawling on the kitchen floor, saying that if i leave him he will hunt down my entire family. I can't leave, because he needs me. Don't i care about my marriage vows? He will kill himself, he will kill the dog, threats, blah blah blah.
> ...


I can't like this enough. The tears are for manipulation, not remorse, when it comes to an abuser. If I didn't cave, it was amazing to watch the transformation - every muscle fiber in his face went from distraught tears to a raging, bared teeth grimace. Like a switch. Or if I cried and apologized, then the tears would stop and a mean triumphant look would take it's place. The look I NEVER got was empathy.

Watch someone who is REALLY remorseful change moods. The tears slow, they sniffle, the expression slowly clears - if the result isn't want they hoped for the expression my gradually shift to disbelief, frustration or maybe even relief at having an answer. But it will be a gradual shift over a minute or more. An abuser will switch like a light switch. 

I guess unless someone has seen this form themselves it's difficult to discern.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

sixty-eight said:


> HA!
> Do you know any abusers?
> 
> i've seen the fake cry only about a million times. Bawling on the kitchen floor, saying that if i leave him he will hunt down my entire family. I can't leave, because he needs me. Don't i care about my marriage vows? He will kill himself, he will kill the dog, threats, blah blah blah.
> ...





CynthiaDe said:


> Abusers cry for various reasons that have nothing to do with remorse.
> Here's a few:
> Self pity
> Fear
> ...



What you both are describing is anti-social behavior. Sociopaths that wear emotions like a mask to manipulate their victims.

OP's husband does show some signs. Like being reliable at being unreliable. Lying with ease,, superficial charm, the ease in which he discards others, manipulation. ack of remorse, emotions like a mask in which he can switch.

Sociopaths love to be committed to even if they cannot emotionally commit to others. It is what others can do for them, how they look to others. About 1 in 25 people are sociopaths to varying degrees.

A good sign would also be his past home life. If he had neglectful, abusive, or alcoholic parents, that is usually a tell-tale sign.

But, the reason why it tends to be a bad idea to jump into another relationship is because after an abusive relationship, you need to reset your brain. In abusive relationships, the brain is used to the high and lows and usually does not function normally in a healthy relationship where the ups and downs are more like gentle slopes compare to the mountains of abusive relationship.

Second, it is easier to manipulate someone coming out of an abusive relationship since they are more motivated to seek that high, that validation. They lose themselves in the other person and place them on a pedestal.

Third, victims of abuse tend to find other damaged people as well. KISA is a prime example of people getting attached primarily for their dysfunction. PUA, people whom use others for sexual gratification. Other abusers, since it is easy for an abuse victim to fall prey to another abuser.

You want your faculties when picking another mate, when your brain can spot red flags, detach, and analyze people.


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