# bump in the road to recovery



## stilltryin (Feb 24, 2012)

Its been nearly a year out since dday after my wifes affair with a vendor at her work. I discovered at minimum an EA that was on the verge of PA . My wife admitted to a date arranged for sex with OM after 3 weeks or so of heavy texting and sexual verbage with this guy. They were waiting for me to take a weekend out of town. She appeared to be the pursuor and certainly active in what limited evidence I had. I sensed some things were odd , so broke in to email and found a few chats that were in progress and blew up . I told the OM's wife and all our family of the affair . Wife agreed to NC and communicated this to OM. She started seeing a counseler for several months . She has done everything this last year I have asked. Her remorse was evident at each stage and our recovery was coming along except for my triggers on occasion. Because she did not see the OM at work daily and claimed only limited need in the past to communicate with him ( once per 6 months) We thought she could continue to work there and let others handle communication. She had Offered to quit and in fact turned in her notice but did not disclose the real reason and said she needed more $. Job then offered her a big raise to keep her and we decided she would stay on but not contact OM and If so I was to be notified of any contact that came up. Counseling seemed to go well and her affection , sex life and everything was going well. She has no FB or private emails that I am aware of (she offered to close) and things seemed transparent with no indication of underground activity. As DDAY anniversary approached I again asked as I had on rare occasion if The OM had been by or if she had to talked/email him or anything. IN the past I had told her I need to know if any communication occured. She always said no. Yesterday I was alittle more aggressive and just said it was odd that he had made no contact and was she sure , and at first she dodged alittle and then said well I have had to send him a few emails from my boss and they were all short and business related. She open her work email and showed me a few and yes they appeared Very Short sporadic harmless and not overly friendly and just general work questions. I asked her why she kept this from me and she said things were going so good and she did not want to argue or jeopardize things. I told her that was infact just what she did by keeping this from me. I now feel very worried about this situation and don't know where to go ...


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## stilltryin (Feb 24, 2012)

I also failed to mention that her boss was aware(she told) of the inappropriate relationship with the vendor and she was warned that both would or could lose jobs if it ever occured again.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

how stupid of her

(and this is a big reason why she should have quit)

had she been transparent you would have been a bit triggered but at least feeling secure having seen the emails

but instead she's made you take big backwards steps in regaining trust


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She lied by omission, which is the same as breaking NC. You even warned her and asked her all the time if there had been contact. This is serious.

It's been said time and time again here, that NC cannot be established if the APs continue to work together. In your case, OM is a vendor for your WWs company (have I read your story here before under a different username?). As long as there is any contact at all, the affair is still on, at least INSIDE her head. It may have cooled down for now, but it can reignite at any time, probably if there is a slump in your marriage, a serious argument, etc, .....then its right back into OMs arms. 

You're at the point now if her job is worth your marriage. Only you two can decide that.


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## stilltryin (Feb 24, 2012)

thank you for your replies. I agree and I made it quite clear in fact crystal clear that I was to be made aware of contact. I have been quite vigilent without being overbearing this last year. She calls me each day to check in and I always follow up with any unusal situations but I cant be with her all day everyday. I have looked for underground activity and have not found anything.She has been a dream wife since the DDay last may.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Something seems very strange here. She meets a vendor at work and in only 3 weeks she tries to set up a meeting where she will have sex with him? She is willing to destroy her marriage over this and humiliate her spouse in such an awful way? There has to be more to this story.

Her lying by omission means she will always not tell you everything for her own benefit. I do not know how you could ever trust her now and in the future.


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## stilltryin (Feb 24, 2012)

I always felt that if she wanted to continue her affair it would have been easier if she did not work at her current job, and she could have always contacted him easier outside. Her boss was aware and there emails/computer are monitored. Since the OM was not a fixture on site it was only the job description that might put her in a rare contact with him and she was convinced it would not be a problem. The OM has a family and his wife and I talked and shared notes. If OM gets caught the vendor loses a big account. I thought it was probably riskier to continue her affair if wife still worked there.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

It is so sad that many BSs do not understand how much this destroys trust. It has really made me begin to wonder... Even if our BSs do everything right for the rest of their lives, its almost like they need to be watched so closely, just to be an honest person. Is this because they are so used to lying to your face just so THEIR lives run smoothly? Who knows. Think really hard about this one. Does she have integrity? I am wondering if my BS does at this point. Even if he did everything right from now on......


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## stilltryin (Feb 24, 2012)

I never told my story , only came to tam for advice and coping resources. I have been married 18 years and have 3 kids. Wife has always be a big flirter and even when we met she had this background. I thought she would grow up or grow out of it. It was never overt after our marriage or so I thought and things over the years seemed fine. I suspected she was loose with a few boundries but her MO was she was a flirt and we were never away from each other too much and I just never thought she would cross the line. Sadly , I was mistaken and the reality is she is somewhat damaged goods to me now. I have a family and wanted to keep it intact because the good times far outweighed the bad. But I don't need to worry for the rest of my life....


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I am so sorry.

Reading your situation is a trigger for me, because after my WS's DD#1 I would sometimes sit and read old emails he had sent her and found it so hard to believe that he had just broken it off, just like that. I didn't employ any of the stuff that you've used to verify, I just was going on pure trust, which seems so ludicrous now. I would ask periodically if she was in contact and he would sigh and say no. Now when I think about how many times I asked that question--gosh, at least once a month or more for 3 years--and he was lying every time. That sigh was the sigh of a liar.

Did you go to MC, or did she just go to IC? I couldn't tell from your post, sorry if I missed something.

We found an MC who is trained in infidelity issues, I would strongly recommend meeting with someone if you haven't. Our MC is really no-nonsense. He seems to truly understand the strong compulsions that WSs can have to recontact their APs, and also to sort through how the affair is the choice by the WS, and the issues in the marriage are separate from that and not the cause of the affair.

I have tried to talk to my husband about how what he's done has affected my love for him. That I do love him, but I don't see him in the same way as I did. And that this is the hardest thing and the danger in trickle-truth and continued lies. Has she heard you say this, that you wonder sometimes if you can ever love her fully because of the LIES? Maybe it's time she needs to hear that.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

stilltryin said:


> I never told my story , only came to tam for advice and coping resources. I have been married 18 years and have 3 kids. Wife has always be a big flirter and even when we met she had this background. I thought she would grow up or grow out of it. It was never overt after our marriage or so I thought and things over the years seemed fine. I suspected she was loose with a few boundries but her MO was she was a flirt and we were never away from each other too much and I just never thought she would cross the line. Sadly , I was mistaken and the reality is she is somewhat damaged goods to me now. I have a family and wanted to keep it intact because the good times far outweighed the bad. But I don't need to worry for the rest of my life....


Only you can know what your gut is telling you. I know that many here on TAM say quit the job if the affair happens at work...but I always thought this was more of a punishment, I mean, they can just exchange phone numbers and stay in contact, right? Same with transparency. We get all the passwords, but they can just set up a secret email in 5 mins....

I guess its like gun control, they can ban them, but there is a black market - you can still buy a gun down the street! (Just an analogy - not a political point...) So what it all comes down to is trust and honor. Loyalty and fidelity are so rare and valued, we date many people, but only choose one to give this ultimate gift to. Why someone would betray a loyal spouse I will never understand.

After 18 years? And everything else is going well? I might fight for it. Only you can really know. My H has gone back on things we agreed to in order to R. And I am ready to walk. If he makes a good enough case, I might stay a little longer and see if he can do it, but I have really lost my faith.

Your BS has only slipped this ONE time in a year? Thats pretty good, actually. The problem is, she slipped on a big one. Contact. And you had to pull it out of her. On the plus side, she told you the truth, as far as you know, and thats good, if its real.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Fast Forward to this weekend 4 years later ........ everything going great or so I thought. I asked her sunday night if the OM had ever contacted her since...just curiousity that I had not heard his name in years but it was close to dday anniversary for me and I always think about it(affair) then. The OM had since been fired from his vendor job in late 2012 so he was no longer supposed to be in the picture and it was good riddance for both(wife) of us. She then tells me yes! I talk to him , when I have to for business reasons . I said WHAT ? she goes on to tell me that the OM was eventually rehired by a new company and given the new contract shortly after he supposedly disappeared from our lives. He has been basically back in his old role since 2013 and she never told me a word of it . Claims that she knew it would upset me and we needed her job (somewhat true) and that she is very professional and business only blah blah blah would never make that mistake again blah blah would kill herself first blah blah tears tears shaking ... you get the idea... TO make matters worse, her old boss, the one that was doing most of the communication with him after the affair retired one year ago and she has been the primary person dealing with him since. And she did not think I needed to know this because they dont deal with each other "often" in her words. It seems funny to say but other than that she has been a dream wife , never works late , phone is open, no missing times or late anything. Sex has been great , not really anything to complain about BUT I am thinking of getting divorce papers written up as this is shocking. Her only answer is she knew it would upset me if she told me and she did it to keep peace. She does acknowledge it was very wrong , now ( and insists she find a new job ) . could this be anything other than a false recovery ?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

That job should have been history. Go to Loveshack and look at all those MW who pine away for their POS for YEARS. Breaking NC and taking the affair underground. It is critical that any tie to the POS be severed. It does not take much for a WW to trigger and the longing for their POS starts again. 

I know you believe that you stopped it before it when sexual, but my time on TAM, LS, and SI leads me to doubt it. Once these WWs, especially the ones that have been married a long time with older kids, start down the path to adultery, they just can't stop themselves on until he's in her.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

If I were you my friend, I would hand her divorce papers and tell her you will rip them up as soon as she passes a polygraph test verifying she has NOT seen him in person and does not have any "private" social media going with him.

She is full of it. And she is most likely still lying her ass off to you. The questions now is do you want to really find out or not. Her actions have forfeited the right to make any decisions here.

And the sex being great is meaningless. So forget it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow sorry.

POLYGRAPH like asap with divorce papers ready.
Wow. :surprise:


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I agree with Straightshooter and get the papers drawn up and tell her it's polygraph time.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

You guys went through this exact scenario 4 years ago. She saw how much it upset you. But she proceeded to carry on doing it for the next few years anyway? Do they speak on the phone as well as email? You can ask to see all the emails. Companies archive them. Surely they must talk on the phone if she's his contact at the company. Must be weird for them when they do. And not one business meeting all that time? Unusual. 

Amazing she admitted it but she probably knew you would sense it if she lied when you asked. 

Ask her what else she's lying to you about. 

Cruel. I'm so sorry. 
Yes, snoop, polygraph, D papers drawn up & maybe contact OM's wife to see if she knows anything.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's feedback.. Put VAR in wifes car this morning after discussion last night with her about polygraph. I thought she may contact OM if still talking to him, just maybe. Nothing on the morning commute , no phone calls. Scheduled polygraph for tommorow morning and she agreed to take it , said it would be good for her to clear her name so to speak.... I will report findings


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

In my opinion, it's very hard to experience a good marriage with a wife who is cheating. So the "truth" is essentially what you see and experience every day.

The concept of we "need the money" really reinforces how unimportant marital boundaries are to the both of you. You should be willing to live in a 1 BR apt (Kids?)... but the idea is a certain financial lifestyle, or a mortgage or a house or a car is not important that the marriage.

I don't think you are in false recovery, but I do see why you may not feel safe within your marriage.

If you are thinking divorce, don't encourage her to quit her job.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

i hope you took the time to think about the questions you are going to ask and review them with the examiner so you do not waste your money.

And you need to have a thought out plan on what you are going to do with either a pass or fail result.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Four years later and she is still lying to you my friend.

Divorce her.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Stilltrying,

Also have her sit down and write out a timeline for her affair, what happened and when, one of the polygraph question could be is you timeline complete and truthful.

How close does the OM live to you?

Tamat


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is not good. Not good at all.

Polygraph and STD tests for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

From my perspective as a woman, when you have a woman who's a "flirty" type as you call it that means that she's insecure and needs lots of male attention. 

My guess is that your wife puts a lot of value of her looks. 

This can sometimes pass with age but sometimes will get worse as they look to reassure themselves that men still want them. 

The fact that your wife didn't grow out of it tells me she's option two and that's difficult to work with. 

What do you want now? I don't think at this point she'll change much because her ego needs male attention. Is this something you can live with? 

What if you made a couple of nice female friends? Sometimes a little empathy can go a long way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP- I'm not an expert, but this sure sounds like false R to me. She admits to keeping it from you- that is the same as lying.

She also sees it is wrong now and she should get a new job now. Where was this 3 years ago when she lead you to believe that all was well, POSOM was fired, and she had no contact with him??

Follow through with the polygraph.

Also, contact a lawyer and get checked for STDs. Your wife is a proven liar.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

> straightshooter
> 
> If I were you my friend, I would hand her divorce papers and tell her you will rip them up as soon as she passes a polygraph test verifying she has NOT seen him in person and does not have any "private" social media going with him.





tom67 said:


> Wow sorry.
> 
> POLYGRAPH like asap with divorce papers ready.
> Wow. :surprise:


I'm so sorry for you but the above is going to be first priority and you need access to her email account (pref at work if possible) to review all mail for the last few years pronto and do not tell her in advance


.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Good God! Did you really marry someone that stupid or pathetically weak?

She has never placed a higher priority on your marriage than her stupid affair and secrets afterwards!

She is behaving like a stupid kid that needs a babysitter or she really thinks you are a stupid pushover!

I think you might need to be done here.

She has obviously been absolutely unable to make any progress towards restoring her marriage and, though you get upset, you don't give her serious repercussions for her continuing betrayal by deception.

I am convinced the deception actually does more to harm the relationship than the actual affair.

Past time you started acting and stopped talking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

got back from Polygraph , she took test , answered all the questions .04 chance she was lying, according to the examiner. He is very reputable examiner . She has not had sex(oral,intercourse,etc) with OM or any other man since our marriage started is the conclusion of the polygraph. Still have the past EA and breach of the NC rules to work out but I am holding off the divorce papers and we are reconfirming what we need to do for her employment. As I stated earlier , she could just as easily hook up with OM at new employment, if that were going to happen. How hard is it to set up a ghost email account ? At some point you have to either trust or just give up . I intend to keep an eye out and verify but if OM and wife did not have sex maybe she is not addicted to the affair as some people become due to the brief amount of time and lack of physical contact. I know , I know poly is not 100% but I got to go with it for now. As I stated , she is perfect in her transparency and remorse , her affection is 100% and her family care is great. This ommision of the OM back in her employment world for the last 3 years is still very serious and she is going to find another job and the next time contact is made without notification , we are divorced . Line in the sand , redrawn for today


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I would let her know that from this moment forward it is zero tolerance. If she is going to keep this job she will need to have another person in her company deal with that vendor. Period. This has to be a boundary you set. There can be no refusal on her part.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Help me understand this. She maintained contact with him for the last four years. She lied to your face when you asked her directly about it. The consequences you gave her for this was a poly and a threat of leaving her again. Yea I doubt seriously your marriage is going to last. 

Maybe I am just in a negative mood today.

C


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your wife cheated on you and your family four years ago. Then she lied to you about R and you thought you have a happy life once again. 

My friend Affair never stoped and it is going to last for a long time because your wife works with him. Nice to hear it didnt go full PA but it is still cheating and lying my friend. 

Her excuse is "I didnt want to hurt you" but she knew this will hurt you and she keep doing it behind your back. Now all you did is give your wife another chance to prove herself. Four years seems like a little time for her,sorry. There is no real consequences for her actions. I can bet she goes with smile to her job every morning while you think what is she going to do now. 

Stay strong.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Unacceptable. TOTALLY unacceptable.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Well you were all right........ I told her after the poly that I would give her another chance but I needed full disclosure of her contact with OM. She said absolutely she would include any contact. First day she sends me businesses like email from him and left her response out. Then next day her email to him but left his follow up out. dig dig dig , I get her to give me password this morning because something is not right.... and I called her a liar . She gives up password and I search her deleted files and find her hidden conversations , telling each other they love one another and movies he told her to watch and that was all non business related. I could not find any other ones but forwarded those to the OM's wife and told my wife to move out tonight . She agreed but cried and said she only loved me blah blah blah ,,,its over for me , wasted $600 on a polygraph and 4 years on recovery . I needed to share this with others as I was another fool in thinking you can keep the job (although I think she would have done this anyway) she admitted it was the job that kept them in contact 
but she was so convincing in the first dday and I did not know her capabilities for lying. So her I am , Devastated and about to be Divorced. she is agreeing to my terms but I feel I better hurry and get the papers drawn up-- any advice on that part ? I really am listening....


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

I'm so so sorry

what were the questions the poly guy asked?

And did they meet up ?

That dam job as the fog never cleared


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

See a lawyer as soon as you can and try to finish the divorce as fast as you can... Before she is less agreeable to terms. 

Get tested for STDs.
Take care of yourself- Excercise and try to eat right.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

She sounds like a sociopath with no conscience. Hence, able to pass the poly. My guess is she is agreeable to moving out and getting divorced because that's what she wants and you just got her off dead center.
Again Stilltryin, her interest in you was at a low level when she and this guy had their thing going 4 years ago. When a woman's interest level drops, it seldom returns to a point where she's happy with you.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

This is quite simple. Your wife has to quit the job or you file for divorce


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I think divorce really is the ONLY answer here.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry to hear that my friend.

She lied to you for a long time. 
She lied about Affair
She lied about R

Talk with your lawyer and Divorce her. Do it before she changes her mind about money,house and stuff like that.

Stay strong.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Wow, what a curve ball.

BTW, she did pass the poly

Did she have a physical affair no

Did she have an EA, yes

I wonder if it was asked if the EA was still going on right now or just did she have an EA with the OM?

Either that, or she's cold as ice and is one of those persons who can easily defeat a lie detector.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Advice? Ask for EVERYTHING through the lawyer and negotiate backward. Also go visit all the highly qualified lawyers, as many as you can, because from what I understand, once they've seen you, they cannot then represent her. Leave her only the crappy ones to choose from.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

Wow. So sorry you're going through this. Like tunera said - start the process on the lawyers. Start prepping yourself for disclosure to all of those who are close to you. This is unacceptable. Best of luck to you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Four years of false reconciliation.

Unbelievable.

You cannot excise this cancer from your life fast enough.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you all for your replies. I meet lawyer Tuesday. wife is saying she will sign anything. I can never fully describe everything in text format but she is so sad ,remorseful and convincing. Telling me she would do anything. I tried that 4 years ago. Yes she passed the poly on the PA part for sure. She admits to the EA and says she has feelings for OM but not like for me and would do anything (counseling ,quitting her job etc..) Once again my world is torn apart and I have to face the pain of divorce and changing my life forever ( i have elementary age children). I thought I was riding into the sunset with her. She is a weak person and is addicted to this EA. I dont think I could try recovery after 4 years of lies but my heart just doesnt want to face the fact its over. Why would she want to even think about R is beyond me , she is free to go now why even want to stay?

Divorce papers will be signed , filing ? is their any hope....


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

There is no hope unless you are willing to stay married to a cold, manipulative liar. Her past track record is the best predictor of your future. Sure, you can let her stay and "try" again. But you'll be right back here in 4 more years (or less) telling us how you should have listened to TAM and got out.

Time to toss this one back. But I sense you're really waffling on this, and experience tells me you're probably going to let her stick around. That wouldn't be prudent, IMHO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, not in this case. No hope.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Divorce papers will be signed , filing ? is their any hope....


There is always hope as long as you don't give up. One step at a time and keep moving forward.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

You need to understand this is not your fault. You did your best and you reinvested in her. You gave her the gift that many do not ever deserve. She is the one that wasted it. She is not sick. She is not weak. There is no excuse for what she did and thinking she is weak is just a cop-out. She knew what she was doing and still decided to proceed even knowing you would leave her. She made her choice. Now you need to focus on taking care of you and your kids. The best way your going to be able to do that is to divorce her and push to have the children as much as you can. They need to see at least one parent is healthy. 

You deserve better and so does your children. At least this way you can build a healthy home for them to come to and some day you will find a great woman that will show them a better way as well. It does work. I have gone through this myself. 

C


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Wife has always be a big flirter and even when we met she had this background.
> 
> Why would she want to even think about R is beyond me, she is free to go now why even want to stay?


Because you were providing a great environment for both your wife and the OM. You provided stability and comfort. Because of you the OM didn’t have to put up with the boring stuff you do for your wife and family. The OM and your wife could flirt their a$$es off for free. She doesn’t want to lose your support. If the affair isn’t free then the OM may decide that your wife isn’t worth the trouble.

Divorce her and let her keep her job. Your kids can use the money.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

It seems that the NC (no contact) is one of things a wayward spouse usually has trouble with and it gets broken but usually early on in R.
after 4 years....... how long can a betrayed spouse be a warden it gets way to tiring.

if by chance you even consider R she has to quit the job, but there is still no guarantee that NC will hold.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It's funny how now she says she would do anything to stay married, except the one thing you asked her to do (NC). Before this most recent revelation, I was gonna recommend you start going to lunch with some smoking hot babes, and when the wife notices the bills on your banking accounts for 2 people, just tell her that you didn't want to upset her, and it's all above board.

You did good to kick her out. I bet OM will finally seal the deal, but after awhile he will grow tired of her, especially if he has to start footing the bill. And she may want to limit their romps to look better in the Divorce process.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Is there no hope? This is the question you posed. There is always hope. Hope precedes reality. The real question is can there be a reality that you desire. That is highly improbable, one step short of impossible. Your W is weak and lacking in intellect and for her to change there would need to be strong impetus of such consequence so as to alter her basic personality. This is indeed rare mainly because in order to have a reaction of that magnitude there needs to exist her ability to deeply care for some thing, whether it be you, the marriage, the family or what have you and people of that level of mental ability simply do not.

Think of it like a child that you threaten to punish by taking away something they desperately want. What would that be? If they desperately want nothing then what can you use to alter their mindset? Your wife has shown her level of concern for you and your marriage and family by risking that over some OM's attention and "love".?. Although I reluctantly believe that SOME people can make MINOR changes, altering one's deep character traits is nigh unto impossible.

Your wife may indeed be fearful and sad over losing what she has known for so many years but that was not enough to overcome her weak character. What would be? Unless you can uncover whatever that may be, I fear you are destined to relive this scenario. She may grow at some point to realize her folly and the importance of you and her family but can you afford to wait for that growth to occur? And remember, it may not occur at all. This is a very heart wrenching decision you are faced with, consider it carefully but realistically.

Consider this; if you love someone let them go, if they return to you they are yours, if they do not they never were. Perhaps it is possible that upon seeing the dissolution of her marriage and her family she may be struck with the devastating consequences of her actions and fight feverishly to right her wrong. If so then proceed accordingly but if not, then you will have your answer. There is no hope.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry. I don't think there is any hope, to be honest. 1) She is such a convincing liar that you will never be able to trust what she says. 2) She has had her marriage and boyfriend on the side for a very long time and will not give up the OM or her attachment to him easily. And 3) you are in shock right now, both mourning your loss and trying to wrap your mind around it; with time, your love and respect for her will most likely seriously diminish.

This is definitely false R. Four years. That's bold and disturbed.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

thank you all , its so hard to face the truth...... some people cannot change.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am so sorry this has happened. I agree with those saying there's nothing to save here, and to move on. It really, really sucks though.

Just keep your head high - you weren't the one at fault here.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Part of me think if this never reached PA stage that there could be hope, if she quits job but then I think about this going on for 4 years. That is a long time to be so deceptive. 

Reading hundreds of threads on LS from countless WWs has taught me that there is no redeeming a woman in a long term affair. It also makes me doubt the results of the poly. 4 years and POS never hit it but is proclaiming that he loves her? Not buying that but on the very slim chance that it's true, it won't be for long. She'll run straight to his bed.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Deep down his WW understands that OM is no safe harbor and cannot provide what her H provides for her, she knows the OM flaws and that they outnumber her Hs flaws and has a few that she cannot live with. 

However there are a few categories in which the OM is outperforming BH likely conversation and admiration, possibly more attractive to her or merely different. The OM may also be spending more time with his WW than he is. 

It's difficult to believe that OM and WW have not even kissed, or had phone or texting sex.

He should suggest to the OMW that she get a polygraph for OM.

Tamat


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Well you were all right........ I told her after the poly that I would give her another chance but I needed full disclosure of her contact with OM. She said absolutely she would include any contact. First day she sends me businesses like email from him and left her response out. Then next day her email to him but left his follow up out. dig dig dig , I get her to give me password this morning because something is not right.... and I called her a liar . She gives up password and I search her deleted files and find her hidden conversations , telling each other they love one another and movies he told her to watch and that was all non business related. I could not find any other ones but forwarded those to the OM's wife and told my wife to move out tonight . She agreed but cried and said she only loved me blah blah blah ,,,its over for me , wasted $600 on a polygraph and 4 years on recovery . I needed to share this with others as I was another fool in thinking you can keep the job (although I think she would have done this anyway) she admitted it was the job that kept them in contact
> but she was so convincing in the first dday and I did not know her capabilities for lying. So her I am , Devastated and about to be Divorced. she is agreeing to my terms but I feel I better hurry and get the papers drawn up-- any advice on that part ? I really am listening....


So so sorry for you to have put in the effort to the R process and to be treated like this. You need to hold firm, process the D asap. Get some IC to help you at this time and let all your friends and family know what she did. I hope the OM's wife goes scorched earth with him, the deserve each other.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

No hope OP. 

I am SO sorry. You must be devastated. I hope you keep posting for advice & support. 

It's quite incredible after 4 years. Absolutely cruel. 

Get onto the divorce ASAP, as in yesterday, so she will 'sign anything' as she said. 
Don't give her time to think about it. 
If you leave it for even a few days/weeks she may sing a different tune. Get as much as you can, the maximum you can get. Be greedy if you will. You can always give her back some later if need be e.g. with the kids in mind. 

Keep your contact with her to an ABSOLUTE minimum going forward & use email/texts to minimise it even further since she sounds as if she might be in what's known as the Cluster B personality category. They lie, cheat, have little or no empathy, always put themselves first and healthy relationships with them are impossible. A lot of cheaters fit into this category. The worst thing about them is that they almost always try to worm their way back & can be very convincing & charming. She's even trying to do that now. Don't underestimate her. No contact is advised with these types but impossible for you with the kids. Still, keep it to a minimum. The reason I'm thinking this is the fact that she strung you along for 4 years. 

Again, I'm so sorry.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Well to update ... WW had to take our child on school trip for a couple days that was all above board and she was with the school. Gave us 2 days to be apart and think. She comes back still wanting to recover and has given me a timeline and what i think is the complete story -- after our original DD she stayed away for months and it was sometime in 2013 when it crossed the line again. OM had started the text offers and she gladly accepted. they would sext weekly and then take a break ,sext for a week then take a break , all the while coming home to me to finish her off. She said in the early part of the A she tried to get him to go to lunch and meet her and take it to a PA but he always made excuses. She said this rejection kept her interested but made her feel used. She said he accepted her deviant behavior and she accepted him. that was thier bond -- sharing porn video ideas , raunchy dirty sexting. On one occasion she sent him a pic of breasts for him to masterbate . this has went on from 9-5 monday thru friday off and on since 2013. all the while acting like a perfect wife at home . She said it was a porn addiction type thing with a partner to share it with. She said Om never wanted to meet up and she quit asking after the early rejections thus the passed polygraph and non physical affair. Weird to me.... I am continueing with divorce papers and she is agreeable but wants desperately to make her life different now, I dont trust her of course but would like to believe her- it sounds stupid, She sent NC letter ( ihelped) and is changing jobs and in the meantime has asked someone else to be the liason at her work. still have a small hope but am I ever going to be able to believe her .. could this be fixed with the new outlook ?


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

i forgot to mention she has a past of abusive childhood and sex trauma and when i did things in the marriage that angered her she would escalate her affair activity (justifcation) and that helped her continue the charade. I have always take a golf trip or two each year for the weekend and she hated me leaving. Would cry and call me nonstop over the weekend sometimes. I tried to pass it off and enjoy my 2 days away but it always caused a riff. got a little better but she says these trips angered her and provided fuel for the acting out... i know it is sick


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Your wife needs IC desperately.

Is she capable of change? Sure. If she really, really wants to, and attends years of therapy, maybe.


Why would you want to remain married to somebody capable of all you've mentioned just in the last two posts?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Your wife is seriously damaged goods. I'd move on from that situation ASAP. Get the divorce and go find someone who can love only you.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

stilltryin2016 said:


> could this be fixed with the new outlook ?


The new outlook is that she has to adress childhood trauma, her behaviour towards you and your marriage, the lying and deceiving etc. That takes years of therapy. If she started it on DDay1 then today you might see results. Do you want to stick around not knowing what the results were? Can easily be that she stops after some time because it's too hard or that she wants to leave you etc.

Sounds more like she is only willing to (trying to) change because she is afraid of losing you and with you I mean the security and stability you bring to the table, the only reason it did not go physical is that OM did not want it to go there. She would have been all over him.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

While you've been typing the last few post, your wife has probably thought of a dozen new ways on how to continue to contact her long time lover. She's gone! Move on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

stilltryin2016 said:


> She said in the early part of the A she tried to get him to go to lunch and meet her and take it to a PA but he always made excuses. She said this rejection kept her interested but made her feel used.


Let me get this straight. Not having sex with him made her feel used? She felt used and still continued the affair for years. If they had sex like she wanted then the affair would have been much more fulfilling for her? 

I’ve never seen a case like this. It’s only a technicality that she didn’t bang him for years. Maybe her next OM will be more accommodating.



stilltryin2016 said:


> they would sext weekly and then take a break ,sext for a week then take a break , all the while coming home to me to finish her off.





stilltryin2016 said:


> It seems funny to say but other than that she has been a dream wife , never works late , phone is open, no missing times or late anything. *Sex has been great *, not really anything to complain about


She was thinking of the OM while she had sex with you. No wonder she was so hot. If the OM had sex with her like she wanted maybe you wouldn't have gotten any at all.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

First off, you wife's pathology due to childhood abuse does not excuse her cheating. It may be part of the reason but it was her responsibility to seek counseling and reinforce her boundaries with other men, knowing her attraction was bad for your marriage.

You said you have read many threads about cheating wives here and on LS & SI. Have you ever read one about a wife carrying on a long-term sexting affair and not getting physical? Even once? Your wife has proven to be a stone-cold liar so you can't believe anything she tells you regarding the sex. I think by admitting to the porn, selfie of her boobs and the mutual masturbation she is, in effect, tossing you a bone of truth in order to hide the uglier stuff. I believe she beat the poly - people do it all the time. It's likely she has been having regular sex with him for years - certainly since she got you off the trail with the poly results.

The biggest problem you face is that you cannot believer her and will never trust her. You need a fresh start. From your posting you seem like the kind of guy who will learn how to co-parent effectively and your kids will be fine. I think you've suffered enough.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

stilltryin2016 said:


> She said it was a porn addiction type thing with a partner to share it with.


Nope




stilltryin2016 said:


> i forgot to mention she has a past of abusive childhood and sex trauma and when i did things in the marriage that angered her she would escalate her affair activity (justification) and that helped her continue the charade.


Nope and nope.



stilltryin2016 said:


> I have always take a golf trip or two each year for the weekend and she hated me leaving. Would cry and call me nonstop over the weekend sometimes. I tried to pass it off and enjoy my 2 days away but it always caused a riff. got a little better but she says these trips angered her and provided fuel for the acting out... i know it is sick


Nope, nope aaaand Nope.


Not one is even a good justification. They're so bad that they are insulting.

She can't even be honest about the OM being put before you.

Keep the D rolling forward.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Marriage is not a suicide pact. The 'sickness and health' vow doesn't have to include lying to this breathtaking degree.

Your WW has absolutely loved having two men devoted to her. It may be sick and it may be unhealthy (mostly for you), but it isn't the kind of unhealthy that you need to sacrifice for.

Try to take the long view. You now know who she really is. You have zero evidence that she will improve; in fact, your evidence points to the opposite. How do you think your perception of her as a human being will evolve in the future?

I think you won't love or respect her. I think you will have buyer's remorse if your heart convinces your head that 'she can change.'

It's your life, though. A few more years to finally convince yourself that you need to be away from her isn't really all that much in the grand scheme of things. I do believe, however, that that is where this is going. Caveat emptor.


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## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

So the only reason it didn't go physical is because he stopped her. what about next time when her AP doesn't have as high a moral constitution? If it had gone physical would you still be interested in R? Because lets face it, it might as well have as she wanted it to.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Well to update ... WW had to take our child on school trip for a couple days that was all above board and she was with the school. Gave us 2 days to be apart and think. She comes back still wanting to recover and has given me a timeline and what i think is the complete story -- after our original DD she stayed away for months and it was sometime in 2013 when it crossed the line again. OM had started the text offers and she gladly accepted. they would sext weekly and then take a break ,sext for a week then take a break , all the while coming home to me to finish her off. She said in the early part of the A she tried to get him to go to lunch and meet her and take it to a PA but he always made excuses. She said this rejection kept her interested but made her feel used. She said he accepted her deviant behavior and she accepted him. that was thier bond -- sharing porn video ideas , raunchy dirty sexting. On one occasion she sent him a pic of breasts for him to masterbate . this has went on from 9-5 monday thru friday off and on since 2013. all the while acting like a perfect wife at home . She said it was a porn addiction type thing with a partner to share it with. She said Om never wanted to meet up and she quit asking after the early rejections thus the passed polygraph and non physical affair. Weird to me.... I am continueing with divorce papers and she is agreeable but wants desperately to make her life different now, I dont trust her of course but would like to believe her- it sounds stupid, She sent NC letter ( ihelped) and is changing jobs and in the meantime has asked someone else to be the liason at her work. still have a small hope but am I ever going to be able to believe her .. could this be fixed with the new outlook ?


You say she was the one pushing for a PA and OM refused.

There is no hope for your marriage. Your wife declared her love for another man and pushed for sex with another man. The only reason it did not happen is because OM refused. Then she proceeds to remain in an EA with OM including raunchy sexting, pictures, and exchanging "I love yous". All the while lying to you.

She only changed her tune this time for the same reason as the last time 4 years ago - you caught her and she is trying to avoid the consequences of her actions. She is a proven (multiple times) liar. What you are hearing now are lies as well - just like 4 years ago.

You can never trust her again. If you want a marriage where you can never relax your monitoring of your wife, then sure there is hope. Otherwise - not so much.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

It sounds like she wants to "fix herself" but cannot. She is "addicted to sexting, cheating". The fact that she admitted that she wanted to take it physical but the POSOM did not is good and bad. Good because she admitted it finally. Bad because she wanted it, not him, and this has not really been addressed by her.

You need to wreak havoc on POSOM's career and life - his wife needs to know but even more importantly, you really need to fire a warning shot across your wife's employers' bow. They have enabled this affair and alienation of affection twice now! 

You have a (very) small percentage chance of being able to reconcile but it is going to be very tough. It sounds like she wants to. If you want to and are prepared to go through the tough road ahead (monitoring, being suspicious etc) then I think you should go for it.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Well to update ... WW had to take our child on school trip for a couple days that was all above board and she was with the school. Gave us 2 days to be apart and think. She comes back still wanting to recover and has given me a timeline and what i think is the complete story -- after our original DD she stayed away for months and it was sometime in 2013 when it crossed the line again. OM had started the text offers and she gladly accepted. they would sext weekly and then take a break ,sext for a week then take a break , all the while coming home to me to finish her off. She said in the early part of the A she tried to get him to go to lunch and meet her and take it to a PA but he always made excuses. She said this rejection kept her interested but made her feel used. She said he accepted her deviant behavior and she accepted him. that was thier bond -- sharing porn video ideas , raunchy dirty sexting. On one occasion she sent him a pic of breasts for him to masterbate . this has went on from 9-5 monday thru friday off and on since 2013. all the while acting like a perfect wife at home . She said it was a porn addiction type thing with a partner to share it with. She said Om never wanted to meet up and she quit asking after the early rejections thus the passed polygraph and non physical affair. Weird to me.... I am continueing with divorce papers and she is agreeable but wants desperately to make her life different now, I dont trust her of course but would like to believe her- it sounds stupid, She sent NC letter ( ihelped) and is changing jobs and in the meantime has asked someone else to be the liason at her work. still have a small hope but am I ever going to be able to believe her .. could this be fixed with the new outlook ?


"She said"?
After all the lies she's told you why would you believe ANYTHING that spews out of her mouth? Do you want to be a detective the rest of your life? I for one certainly understand wanting to find some way to make this work for your kids, but my friend, it's very obvious as to what NEEDS to be done!!!


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> The biggest problem you face is that *you cannot believer her and will never trust her.* You need a fresh start. From your posting you seem like the kind of guy who will learn how to co-parent effectively and your kids will be fine. I think you've suffered enough.


:iagree:
OP, the bolded part above is the deal breaker in my opinion. I don't think you will ever trust her again. If you R, you are likely going to be in surveillance mode for the rest of your life and you will never have a moment's piece because the niggle in your gut will probably never go away.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you for your replies and advice from everyone, to update I met lawyer yesterday , papers are being made ready by friday. She thinks she has Sex Addiction , im not so sure that its not affair addiction and she wanted him more so she was willing to do whatever he wanted. OM either has a porn additcion and cant be physical intimate or may have had others(women) and did not need her for that. IDK but I just cant see a day where I wont worry about her boundries.. and it's so hard to see the jeckyl and hyde part of her , She truly acted like the most dedicated loving wife the last 5 years we spend all of time together and she even acted jealous and posesive at times , but never wanted to leave my side.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Thank you for your replies and advice from everyone, to update I met lawyer yesterday , papers are being made ready by friday. She thinks she has Sex Addiction , im not so sure that its not affair addiction and she wanted him more so she was willing to do whatever he wanted. OM either has a porn additcion and cant be physical intimate or may have had others(women) and did not need her for that. IDK but I just cant see a day where I wont worry about her boundries.. and it's so hard to see the jeckyl and hyde part of her , She truly acted like the most dedicated loving wife the last 5 years we spend all of time together and she even acted jealous and posesive at times , *but never wanted to leave my side.*


Unless the OM had accepted her attempts to take the affair physical. Then she would have been acting out her porn star fantasies with him with him at every opportunity. Doing things with him that she would never do with you.

Her acting jealous and possessive of you is typical of cheaters. They transfer their lack of morals to their spouse. They can act this way so you could also. Acting the perfect wife is also a common tactic to keep you from getting suspicious while she acts on her private life as a cheating slvt. She wanted and pushed for sex with OM. Then continued the affair for years while lying to you. You should never believe that she gave up on asking him for sex.

You were and still are her Plan B. The safe financially secure home base while she has a fantasy sex life with him, Plan A.

She does this because she wants to do it. She does it because she needs to do it. She was willing to risk all to have sex with OM. This is a basic character flaw that will no change.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you're on the right track with the lawyer.

Your WW sounds pathological. The Jekyll-Hyde thing is very disturbing. Serial cheaters can do this & they are, indeed, pathological.

It may seem like the last 5 years have been a lie, but I don't think they were. I think you were just allowed into one of her compartments. Now she's been forced to let you into her secret other compartment, so you get a fuller view. What you have now is a truer picture of her life. It's not an aberration.

I think she needs serious help. I also think she will make your life a continued misery if you decide you want to try to recover the M.

So sorry.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Years ago a buddy of mine was having problems in his marriage. His thought they had talked it out and things were good. For over 2 years his wife was the perfect wife. He was very happy until he caught her in an affair.

She admitted that she intentionally acted the perfect wife at home. Even increased the home sex life (one of his original complaints). She did all this to keep him happy so he would not suspect she was screwing her lover at every opportunity. Averaged twice a week for over 2 years until he caught her by accident when she left her laptop open and he saw emails confirming the time and place of their next meeting.

She told him she was going shopping. He got his camera and took pictures of them kissing in the parking lot and entering the motel room together.

My point is that your wife acting like a perfect wife for the last 5 years means little.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, is a PA a deal breaker for you?

Does your WW know this?

Do you see where I am going with this line of questioning?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

stilltryin2016 said:


> Thank you for your replies and advice from everyone, to update I met lawyer yesterday , papers are being made ready by friday.


That's good. Well done.



> She thinks she has Sex Addiction , im not so sure that its not affair addiction and she wanted him more so she was willing to do whatever he wanted.


I doubt it. I think it's more likely that she gets validation from men and she was excited by the other man.

Her abusive past could very well play into that, but none of that has anything to do with you.



> OM either has a porn additcion and cant be physical intimate or may have had others(women) and did not need her for that.


Doesn't matter. Who cares?



> IDK but I just cant see a day where I wont worry about her boundries.. and it's so hard to see the jeckyl and hyde part of her , She truly acted like the most dedicated loving wife the last 5 years we spend all of time together and she even acted jealous and posesive at times , but never wanted to leave my side.


It's called compartmentalization. It's very common in affairs.

It's also common in people with BPD and other issues.

You might want to talk to someone about that.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend your wife is lying to you once again. 

She is making another excuses for her Affair. This Affair was going and still is for FOUR years. Do you belive she only showed him breast picture! You are smart man my friend.

What is even worse she is the one who chased OM and her Affair. She was living two lives and constantly lying to you about your Marriage,your reconciliation and she is doing the same thing right now.

Dont trust her. You gave her a lot of opportunitys to make this Marriage work,but she throw it away for OM. 

Divorce her.

Stay strong.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Your never going to make any real sense of why she did what she did. Its best to just follow through with the divorce and move on with your life. Your going to find once your away from her that life wasn't all that great with her. The bad thing about cheaters is they take so much effort away from there actual relationship to support there affair. Once you notice the difference you will know what to look for in the future. 

Do not give up hope. There are far better women out there. Your stbxW will learn the hard way what it is like to give up a good man. 

C


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, speaking from experience, it's very hard to divorce a Jekyll & Hyde spouse simply because they have their 'good' side which seems totally at odds with their 'bad' side. When we're in it, struggling, we are focused on their 'bad' side. When it's time to say goodbye, we think of the 'good' side & wonder if we should stay and give them a second chance. . . again.

I don't like to pathologise but there is what's called the 'cluster B' personality type. A person doesn't have to fall within cluster B as such. As with most things in life, there isn't a black and white. The main qualities are narcissism, compulsive lying and lack of empathy. Oddly enough, they also have a very charming side and can be the most loving of human beings. That's the trap and it's why so many people get sucked in. In short, they're 'wired' differently from the rest of us which is why the rest of us find it so hard to comprehend their behaviour. They simply don't think the way we do. 

It seems to me that cheaters tend to have all 3 qualities, narcissism, compulsive lying and lack of empathy. to greater and lesser degrees, the greater being evidenced in the numerous threads about serial cheating, trickle truthing, false R, breaking NC etc. There is no cure as such, at least not without a superhuman effort on the part of WS in admitting their problem and going to intensive IC, possibly for years. There are always exceptions who IMO are the WS who on D-day show instant remorse, break off contact immediately, admit everything & give every detail BS asks for, i.e. the 100% remorseful spouse. Even if a WS is 100% remorseful, R is a long and difficult road. When they're not, it's akin to emotional torture. 

With those within or bordering or showing strong signs of the Cluster B personality type, it's probably best to just walk away, as hard as that might be because you have to say goodbye to the 'good' side as well as the 'bad'. If there are children and the children aren't grown up, it only makes it all the harder.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

She almost seemed shocked I was making her actually leave the home yesterday , and could not understand why I would abandon her when she was trying to fix things now ( quite humerus) So strange how she could finally admit to telling me that she emailed this OM weekly with love professions , porn habits and erotic sexting amongst other emotional messages yet still thought I should somehow be able to get past it after 2 DD's spanning 5 years. Telling me it was mostly about sex and she did not really miss him, like that would even make it better somehow. Unfortunately, she read through the lawyers separation agreement (nc law must be seperated 12 months) and is now balking on items and I have a bad feeling is not going to go away easy....


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

"narcissism, compulsive lying and lack of empathy" : I think I am seeing that. But it also seems that infidelity can turn a person into those kinds of disorders. Since some people who end up having affairs - we never planning on it. Just weak and "bored", whatever. Then the addiction and the damage to their brains.

The lack of empathy from the wayward, when they leave their family - is DISGUSTING. My X looks so different today than she used to be... ugly.

My X updated her profile photo with her and our son, she is smiling and beautiful. It was from last Spring, 6 months before the affair.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

That's a manly type of compartmentalization that she was able to do. Most women are not able to do that. There is no doubt if she would have been able to take it physical, that she would have cut you off sexually. 

The fact that it didn't go PA was solely due to POS being more into the fantasy than your wife. It must be really painful that she lied for so many years while virtually and emotionally doing vile things with POS. But the fact that it didn't go PA is big, even if it wasn't her doing, it still didn't go PA. That's why she was able to other wise be a good wife. 

I would complete the divorce, expose to her family & friends because there has to be consequences. If she's able to earn your love, a new relationship can be built. The new untarnished marriage will require work by both parties, but it can be done.


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## stilltryin2016 (Apr 13, 2016)

I tend to agree with you TaDor ,After her first dday , looking back ,some things became a little different from that point on. Maybe I just noticed more but she seemed to be quicker to "react" and had less compassion on occasion. Not the sweet , always sensitive person that I had known for 20 years. She once let a pet lizard that our daughter had" fry" in the sun outside because she forgot to leave water /shelter out one day while cleaning the cage out , it never really bothered her that much . She used to hold that daughters gecko daily and talk to it and showed genuine care on an ongoing basis , always saying how she loved it. Then it died that day , I found it first and buried it to save kids from some pain..... I always remembered and thought how different she had become to some degree , not shedding a tear and having an oh well darn type of reaction.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Nods. If that was ME, I would have been horrified to have accidentally kill an animal, especially one that belonged to my kid! I'd be in pissed at myself about it for a long time.

yeah, the more I think about my X... well, I don't simply know. My mother tell me that SHE didn't really seem to be that good of a mother anyway - but both my X and mom never got along, which I still blame on my mom. But in many ways, she was an excellent wife, lover, mother until recently. Yes, not perfect - but I was happy with her. There were things WE really needed to work on which would have saved us from this mess. I was willing to forgive on my part.

I gave her THREE chances. And it went way past physical. Now, she is starting to make their relationship public on FB... a single photo of the POSOM. And its not flattering, it shows some sort of WTF is wrong with you on her part. She's going to need to HIT bottom, somehow wake up to see what she HAS done and lots of therapy to make up for everything before I would think about allowing her back in... (Put those 2x4s down!) in the past few hours, thinking, looking at these posts on THIS thread, 4 years of being lied too. Both of our "loved ones" faking it, that is sick.

Well, I should be healing more, I have a date for Saturday night! I've joined a dating site, never ever USED one before. My profile is casual/short term dating because I won't lie. I will also only dating SINGLE women. We messaged each other for an hour, she made me generally smile and laugh for the first time in 4 weeks (Other than my toddler) - she just moved back in town and happens to know a few people from 10 years ago, that I know today. So that was a handy connection.

I will admit something, and I'll start it on back on my own thread... I can *see/feel* those reactions in my brain of "feeling good" working. Sickening, that our cheaters *felt that way* and didn't think what they are doing is WRONG and deadly to their marriage.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I think our waywards will need to HIT BOTTOM, see what they lost before they are truly remorseful. But I think some will never admit it, and will continue to self-destruct or whatever. Maybe years realizing how much pain they caused their children, by being gone. And that is the WORSE thing. A normal break up is bad enough, but cheating and destroying your family over a damn stupid fantasy is bloody insane.

They won't understand our pain unless we revenge-affair on them, and that is a maybe. And to me, that is not taking the high ground, but in some ways I can understand it.

Luckily in my state, no alimony and a divorce can be done in 30 days or so. Separation requirements? Damn that sucks.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

stilltryin2016 said:


> I tend to agree with you TaDor ,After her first dday , looking back ,some things became a little different from that point on. Maybe *I just noticed more but she seemed to be quicker to "react" and had less compassion on occasion. Not the sweet , always sensitive person that I had known for 20 years. *She once let a pet lizard that our daughter had" fry" in the sun outside because she forgot to leave water /shelter out one day while cleaning the cage out , it never really bothered her that much . She used to hold that daughters gecko daily and talk to it and showed genuine care on an ongoing basis , always saying how she loved it. Then it died that day , I found it first and buried it to save kids from some pain..... I always remembered and thought how different she had become to some degree , not shedding a tear and having an oh well darn type of reaction.


Committing adultery, like murder, deadens you on the inside. You become coarse and insensitive. It's noticeable to those around the betrayer but to the betrayer, they think they're successfully pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. 

If you read the threads from WWs on LS' OW section, you'll read countless threads of women who truly believe they're still a good person. One recently talked about how she's treats her husband well, even though he's angry toward her for the now sexless marriage. Blaming her husband for their special needs teenager son having more problems for the past 3 years. Not even a small introspection that maybe she's changed during her 3 year sexual PA causing her son to feel insecure about his family. Nope, it's about her angry husband. All the chicken heads imploring her to leave her husband of over 20 years so she can be "happy."


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

jsmart said:


> *Committing adultery, like murder, deadens you on the inside. You become coarse and insensitive. It's noticeable to those around the betrayer but to the betrayer, they think they're successfully pulling the wool over everyone's eyes.*



Word!

Someday, our son will know that "mama" cheated and left us for young-meat. And he'll hate her for it.
if she at least tried, I would have given her credit for that.


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