# open marriages that work



## donna32 (Sep 11, 2015)

i have been in a successful open marriage for several years. i love it and am very comfortable with the kind of sex life an open marriage entails. i love having sex with other men. my husband loves how sensual and sexy our relationship continues to be. we have mostly threesomes (another male for me) and i also go out alone. when i do, i make sure my husband knows everything that happens. we have no secrets. my husband seldom sees other women. he finds my sex play with other men more interesting and stimulating. we do swap with other couples and that is really hot. my husband likes swapping a lot. we got started with our open marriage because my husband was going on a tour of duty (army) where families were not allowed. he suggested that i should see other men for sex while he was gone. he said that could handle it. he felt that i was mature enough to know that sex can be just sex and not require an emotional attachment. i was worried about how it would affect him and he said we would not really know until we tried it out. so, i went to a club while my husband baby sat our kid. i met a nice young soldier and ended up in a motel with him. even though i was really nervous, it turned out to be a lot of fun. i got home about three in the morning and told my husband everything. instead of being jealous, he was very very turned on and we had sex. a win-win situation. 

what i would like is to hear from people, women especially, who have unconventional marriages that work. tell us what started it and what keeps it working. i would like to hear your perspective on unconventional relationships. one area i am interested in is handling an open marriage in relation to kids and other family members. i hope to hear from a lot of people. the more that share is all the more that help others with the perplexities of open relationships.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

donna32 said:


> hope to hear from a lot of people. the more that share is all the more that help others with the *perplexities* of open relationships.


You see, I for one hate "perplexities" so I stay with one woman.
One vagina is all the "perplexities" I can handle.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

I know of no marriages that survived it for very long. If it works for you, then by all means.

Your husband understands that adultery is still an offence under UCMJ right? In 1994, when I got out, it was still being prosecuted at Ft Knox...typically a 1 year sentence. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
if it works for you that is great - I wish it would work for everyone, the world would be a happier place. 

Do be careful though. I know a poly couple (not the same but somewhat similar to open). For many years he thought things were wonderful, his wife never objected. Turns out she was miserable and just putting up a good show to make him happy (very unfair of her BTW!). They are likely getting divorced now.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Whatever pulls your pud.....


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe you can give this guy some advice:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/294730-im-obsessed-having-mfm-threesome.html


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> if it works for you that is great - I wish it would work for everyone, the world would be a happier place.
> 
> Do be careful though. I know a poly couple (not the same but somewhat similar to open). For many years he thought things were wonderful, his wife never objected. Turns out she was miserable and just putting up a good show to make him happy (very unfair of her BTW!). They are likely getting divorced now.


Back when i was married my ex and I were friends with some neighbors who were swingers... not with us, but they had one or two other steady couples that they swung with (swung? swang? swinged?) They were proud of it too, and bragged about how it enhanced their marriage and actually deepened the trust between them. 

Anyway, I had not seen the husband for a while and one day I ran into him out on the street and he just looked destroyed. I talked to him for a few minutes and then he finally opened up that his wife had left him for the husband of one of the other couples they played with. The other man's wife was devastated too, because now she was left alone with three kids. 

Swinging and open marriages may be titillating in the short term, but there are just too many risks and variables. 

donna32 I think you are playing with a grenade.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I do understand that playing with fire is FUN. It really is.
I won't fault anyone who does it - and they will have my sympathy if they get burned. 

Just be aware of the risks.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

donna32 said:


> i have been in a successful open marriage for several years. i love it and am very comfortable with the kind of sex life an open marriage entails. i love having sex with other men. my husband loves how sensual and sexy our relationship continues to be. we have mostly threesomes (another male for me) and i also go out alone. when i do, i make sure my husband knows everything that happens. we have no secrets. my husband seldom sees other women. he finds my sex play with other men more interesting and stimulating. we do swap with other couples and that is really hot. my husband likes swapping a lot. we got started with our open marriage because my husband was going on a tour of duty (army) where families were not allowed. he suggested that i should see other men for sex while he was gone. he said that could handle it. he felt that i was mature enough to know that sex can be just sex and not require an emotional attachment. i was worried about how it would affect him and he said we would not really know until we tried it out. so, i went to a club while my husband baby sat our kid. i met a nice young soldier and ended up in a motel with him. even though i was really nervous, it turned out to be a lot of fun. i got home about three in the morning and told my husband everything. instead of being jealous, he was very very turned on and we had sex. a win-win situation.


IMO, posts like ^this^ (and ESPECIALLY when featured as the initial post in a new thread) should go a bit more in depth in terms of discussing some of the ins and outs of maintaining the types of non-traditional relationships that they more or less endorse.

For example, what would you like others to know w/ respect to the types of rules that you and your husband have in place in order to ward off attachments to your lovers?



donna32 said:


> what i would like is to hear from people, women especially, who have unconventional marriages that work. tell us what started it and what keeps it working. i would like to hear your perspective on unconventional relationships. one area i am interested in is handling an open marriage in relation to kids and other family members. i hope to hear from a lot of people. the more that share is all the more that help others with the perplexities of open relationships.


See, this what I'm talking about, and it's where you're falling short -- having been in a "successful open marriage for several years", you should have quite a bit of this to share yourself, no?


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I don't think she is looking for advice on the risk of an open marriage. She just wants to know what other couples in similar marriages are doing to keep their marriages going in the same direction. What are they doing to keep their bonds strong and how do they navigate that situation. Right Donna?

If that's what she is looking for, then, she is going to find a very limited amount of response. Since, most people on TAM are monogamous. 

What I can say, is to keep your conversations open and continue to do things that creates bonds between you and your husband. Don't neglect each other and never put anyone before your spouse. Be on guard for people who want more and just put an end to that acquaintance. 

I grew up in a house where my mum had several lovers. As a child, that is something you never ever want to know. You children should always be protected and never expose to your life style. Never introduce your lovers to your kids. Or else, you would have kids that have no respect for you as they grow older. 

Good luck to you and yours.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Take the following however you wish. Some of it is based on research studies, some on a therapist's experiences with both swinger and monogamous couples, and some is very likely unverified or polling bias results. Based on my own observations of a sample size of hundreds over a 7 year period, it seems to me that swingers have a lower divorce and cheating rate. Anyway, based on that, the following does make some sense to me. I will also point out that swinging is a VERY different form of non-monogamy compared to open relationships, which I personally think are much riskier and difficult to sustain for most people.



> Swingers Refrain From Divorces
> 
> The reasons of swingers not filing for divorces in comparison to their monogamous peers are the traits, which determine happiness and flexibility in their mental health. They have an abstract thinking capacity in addition to creativity and adaptability to changing circumstances. The sex lives of the swingers are undoubtedly more flexible, if compared with the monogamous couples, in terms of sex.
> 
> According to some renowned therapists specialized in both swingers and monogamous couples' relationship issues, swingers do not fear, so they do not cheat. Obviously the other group i.e. monogamous couples fear, so they cheat their spouse/s. Regarding fear, monogamous couples are victims of the toxic jealousy trap. This trap entails that any particular gesture or behavior may lead to a full-fledged affair, resulting into complete breakage of relationships.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Take the following however you wish. Some of it is based on research studies, some on a therapist's experiences with both swinger and monogamous couples, and some is very likely unverified or polling bias results. Based on my own observations of a sample size of hundreds over a 7 year period, it seems to me that swingers have a lower divorce and cheating rate. Anyway, based on that, the following does make some sense to me. I will also point out that swinging is a VERY different form of non-monogamy compared to open relationships, which I personally think are much riskier and difficult to sustain for most people.


Are we looking at swingers as couple swapping? Couples doing stuff as couples. No individual/single players. Then, I can see where this is a much "safer" environment than, an open marriage. Where each part of the couple is "allowed" to have encounters. They don't have to be together. Therefore, open marriages are much more riskier. 

I think if I were to get involved with this, I would choose swinging. I don't want my husband with someone, where I can't see him. Hence, the jealousy aspect of monogamy. It's never gonna work for me. I am going to be too jealous.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Take the following however you wish. Some of it is based on research studies, some on a therapist's experiences with both swinger and monogamous couples, and some is very likely unverified or polling bias results. Based on my own observations of a sample size of hundreds over a 7 year period, it seems to me that swingers have a lower divorce and cheating rate. Anyway, based on that, the following does make some sense to me. I will also point out that swinging is a VERY different form of non-monogamy compared to open relationships, which I personally think are much riskier and difficult to sustain for most people.


I think there is a confounding variable here, which is mentioned in the quoted text that isn't in this message: personality type. Namely, people in open, polyamorous, and swinging relationship styles are more likely to be NT personality types, and therefore will approach relationships in a more analytical, not as emotionally-focused way. 

Of course, this may not be an intrinsic characteristic of people taking those relationship styles, but of these styles' general unpopularity in popular culture. This means that authority-oriented people won't engage in them (or at least admit to engaging in them >).


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

technovelist said:


> Namely, people in open, polyamorous, and swinging relationship styles are more likely to be NT personality types, and therefore will approach relationships in a more analytical, not as emotionally-focused way.QUOTE]
> 
> I don't know if that's true, but it could be. Of course, the Myers-Briggs types aren't scientifically sound, though I've found them to be useful. And most swingers are politically conservative to moderate, so could well be authority-oriented yet open-minded.
> 
> ...


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Anyway, I had not seen the husband for a while and one day I ran into him out on the street and he just looked destroyed. I talked to him for a few minutes and then he finally opened up that his wife had left him for the husband of one of the other couples they played with. The other man's wife was devastated too, because now she was left alone with three kids.


Well if they are already banging each other, why didn't OWH and OMW get hitched with each other and solve their loneliness issues?


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Donna,

A serious question if you will, do you present an appearance to your children of being a monogamous couple, because if you do and are not really monogamous, then you are in a sense lying to your children. Would you want your children to live your lifestyle?

You might say that couples where one spouse cheats on the other and put on a good front for the kids are also lying, and I would agree. But I often hear people who are in open relationships speak of the honesty of their lifestyle choices.

Tamat


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

T/J

Open marriage. Isn't that an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp?

Please explain - why have a marriage, where you take vows to forsake all others except for your spouse, and then open up the marriage and forsaking the vows?

What kind of charade do you need to put on to hide your proclivities from friends, family, and your kids?

No matter how hard I try, I simply can't get my mind around this concept.

Not only that, explain "successful open marriage". How do you have a successful open marriage? Do you gauge it by the fact that you come back to each other? That there aren't any signs of jealousy? 
That you don't consistently hook up with the same guy too many times?

What do you do if your husband says no more? Do you stop or basically tell him that's not going to work for our arrangement?


----------



## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

I think open marriages and swinging is great.......threesomes, foursomes, gangbangs, it's all good. Heck, might as well get into necrophilia, if you love animals might as well do bestiality. Anything to satisfy the inner carnal pleasure! Throw self respect and decency out the window. Where does it stop? Who knows and who cares.....just as long as it feels good!


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

My 17 years old son, came up to take a break from playing video games and was reading, while I got him a snack. He wanted to know why would you want an open marriage? According to him, it makes no sense. You should just stay single and date other people. 

Out of the mouths of babes.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> My 17 years old son, came up to take a break from playing video games and was reading, while I got him a snack. He wanted to know why would you want an open marriage? According to him, it makes no sense. You should just stay single and date other people.
> 
> Out of the mouths of babes.


Because people like cake. And hey, if you can eat cake WITH your spouse, why not?


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I see open marriage as an oxy moron....


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

This is stupid to me. 

If I had a wife I would never share her with other guys or girls. If she wanted to "try some strange" she would be served with D papers immediatly.

You dont love your husband and he does not love you. Maybe both of you love each other or see each other as friends who are living together because it is easier to pay the bills that way.

What is he going to tell his son or daughter why is mommy going out on dates with other guys,or what are you going to say when they ask you the same question ?

If you truly love someone you would never share him/her with others or even worse watch them doing it or waiting for her to come back home and tell you about it. 

But maybe I am silly. I am only 25.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Define "successful marriage". Seriously. I could give examples, but someone could come along and argue logically why my examples "don't count".

I know a couple named Do and Da. They married, she had a traumatic experience and basically stopped being able to fully function, they had an infant at the time. Clearly, Da couldn't leave Do. She just couldn't function alone and/or take care of their child. So, they had an open marriage. Da slept with a few women, Do with a few men. But Da became attached to a neighbor, who was also married, and had a regular thing with her.

A few months after Do and Da's child graduated high school, Da filed for divorce and moved in with the neighbor, who also left her marriage.

They "successfully" had an open marriage for about 15 years until their child reached adulthood. Even though they divorced in the end, does this count?

A family member and his wife became swingers when he found out about a decade into their marriage that she was having a lesbian affair with her BFF. Let's call her T and he K. 

K lost his mind when he discovered T's lesbian affair. Gloom and doom. Apocalypse. He's leaving and taking the kids because her having lesbian sex is sick and twisted and proves her an unfit mother, on and on. Then T said the magic words..."You can join us.." So, he did and they opened their marriage completely soon after. I don't know when they stopped exactly, but I do know they have been monogamous again for a while. They've been married for over 25 years, have raised to adulthood and independence three kids, and are two time grandparents now.

I consider that a success story, but it might not meet the criteria because they only were swingers for a few years or so.

And do non-verbal unofficial open marriages count? You know, those marriages where one or both are cheating or have cheated and they're both turning a blind eye and pretending nothing happened. If the non-monogamy is known and accepted, but not openly acknowledged, and the couple stay married, does that count as a successful open marriage?


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

I see a lot of these topics coming up recently. I just don't understand. I'll repeat what others have said: there is no such thing as an open marriage. Why get married in the first place? And what will the children think. It's absurd. By getting married, you make the decision to be with ONE person, 

If you want to sleep with many different people including or not including your SO why take the vows? Is it not better to simply admit that conventions are not for you?


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I guess the desire for raw sex is so strong, some people will contort their relationships in whatever way possible to have regular access to it.

OP, I'm not convinced that everything's ok in open marriage land with all the participants. I could easily see one or both spouses having a singleton as a sex partner and then probably doing everything possible to ensure that that remains single.

It may be that some guy is thinking he's hit the jackpot in getting NSA sex from you and letting you pose as a "Just a friend" in his social circles only for him to figure out years later that you have actively chased away any woman who was demonstrated interest in him.

How do you source your sex partners? How do you make it clear that you have no intentions to leave your husband? Do you do things with your sex partner unrelated to sex like go to regular parties; movies, whatever? Do you meet people in his life? and does he in yours?


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

An open marriage can be many things, but it is also honest and consensual. Most people - the so-called monogamists - just cheat and create more and more problems for themselves and their spouses. Sadly, far more people cheat than approach their sexuality honestly. Whether it works or not is up to the participants, but as far as my research can illuminate, it works as well as monogamy, and failures rates are similar or even better (in the case of swingers, they divorce at a lower rate than monogamists, and have happier, more satisfying marital lives and sex lives as well).


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

It must be nice to have jobs that afford you so much free time to meet all these other people to have sex with. 

Its the logistics of the thing that I can't get my head around.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

barbados said:


> It must be nice to have jobs that afford you so much free time to meet all these other people to have sex with.
> 
> Its the logistics of the thing that I can't get my head around.


Well, cheaters seem to be able to find time for their affairs, and that is more complicated due to the need to hide them. I don't see why an open marriage would be more work than that.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Interesting discussion. In the minds of most people marriage is equated with monogamous sex. I get it. I felt/feel that way myself. But when you stop to think about the two are only loosely connected. One can have monogamous sex without being married and one can be married without any sex at all. Then there is the issue of marriage "vows". Most wedding vows do not even mention sexual exclusiveness, it is just an assumption for most people. Yet I think the expectation of monogamy is not realistic. People change, people grow. The wants and desires one has at age 25 are not the same they will have at age 35, 45, 55 etc. One can and often most do deny those changes on the basis of the vows and commitments they made to their spouse, even if the expectation is only in their head. Some are successful at this effort. But for others, one or both of them, decide to explore these. Sometimes together. probably more often than not separately. Hence, the cheating and subsequent divorce. OTOH, an open marriage may provide the "safety valve" needed to release this pressure on the relationship by allowing one or both partners to explore themselves. Again, sometimes leading to a decision to separate and divorce. But the question that can never be answered is did the open marriage open the door to divorce or would a divorce have occurred anyways due to the desire of one or both to explore themselves. 
I guess some of us look at marriage vows as the placement of constrictions on ourselves and others. We get married (supposedly) because we love the other person. But this concept of marriage runs counter to the truism, "if you love some one let them go, if they return to you is was meant to be, if they don't their love for you was never yours to begin with".
So do people who practice open marriages have a deeper understanding of love?


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Be smart said:


> This is stupid to me.
> 
> If I had a wife I would never share her with other guys or girls. If she wanted to "try some strange" she would be served with D papers immediatly.
> 
> ...


How would you explain same sex marriages and same sex dating to your kids?

The same way. You simply explain the diversity of relationships.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> An open marriage can be many things, but it is also honest and consensual. Most people - the so-called monogamists - just cheat and create more and more problems for themselves and their spouses. Sadly, far more people cheat than approach their sexuality honestly. Whether it works or not is up to the participants, but as far as my research can illuminate, it works as well as monogamy, and failures rates are similar or even better (in the case of swingers, they divorce at a lower rate than monogamists, and have happier, more satisfying marital lives and sex lives as well).


Is it just me or does it appear more often that there exists a misconception that marriages = ownership? To my wife and I, marriage is about companionship, not ownership.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Is it just me or does it appear more often that there exists a misconception that marriages = ownership? To my wife and I, marriage is about companionship, not ownership.


I would agree - it was something you touched upon when you responded to this post:

"If I had a wife I would never share her with other guys or girls. If she wanted to "try some strange" she would be served with D papers immediatly"

I think this one of the things about modern marriage that many of us don't get. Since when was your spouse yours to share? The fact is that your spouse has chosen to willingly share themselves with you, just as you should have willingly chosen to share yourself with them. As I said before, perhaps those who practice open marriages actually have a more mature concept of love.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If you wanted an open relationship, you shouldn't of got married.

Marriage is between hubby and wifee and not anyone and everyone else.

You are to be faithful to each other. That means emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc. 

Having sex with others while you are married is adultery, plain and simple.

If I were in your shoes, I would of remained single, dating but an open dating relationship.

When I was ready to be with that one woman or man I love, I would get married.

What's the point in getting married, your marriage vows, under God, to just sleep around with other people and then say its okay?

Someone will be getting burned badly sooner or later and it won't be pretty.

If after being married to Mrs.CuddleBug of 16 years now, I said I want to explore an open marriage, you know what she would say and do?...........There's the door, change the locks, throw all my stuff out and take me for everything I have. And I wouldn't blame her.

Marriage is for those mature adults who take heir vows seriously.

For better or worse

Richer or poorer

Sickness and in health

etc, etc, etc,......

If Mrs.CuddleBug came to me one day and said, she wants an open marriage.......I would be gone and take her for everything.

When married, hubby is to take care of his wifee's needs as his own and he isn't his own anymore. That means his body is now hers.

And vise versa. wifee is to take care of her hubby's needs as her own and she isn't her own anymore. That means her body is now his.


If I had kids, I would teach them that marriage is between hubby and wifee under God and your marriage vows are not just pieces of paper.

I would teach them to stay single if they want to get around and party, but when they grew up, want to actually love and be with one person, then get married.


If Mrs.CuddleBug came to me one day and said, I can have another woman on the side because she is LD and doesn't want to get in shape, that would be the ultimate temptation.

Now would I actually get another woman that does love adventurous sex HD and takes care of herself? I would say more than likely NO. I would love to do it of course but that would destroy our marriage in the end.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> How would you explain same sex marriages and same sex dating to your kids?
> 
> The same way. You simply explain the diversity of relationships.


This is correct, but swinging/open marriage has nothing to do with same sex partnerships/marriage.

I don't see how this could be explained to children in a way that makes in acceptable. It would be better to simply not tell them and keep it private, between the parents, as best as possible, in my opinion.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Ynot said:


> I would agree - it was something you touched upon when you responded to this post:
> 
> "If I had a wife I would never share her with other guys or girls. If she wanted to "try some strange" she would be served with D papers immediatly"
> 
> I think this one of the things about modern marriage that many of us don't get. Since when was your spouse yours to share? The fact is that your spouse has chosen to willingly share themselves with you, just as you should have willingly chosen to share yourself with them. As I said before, perhaps those who practice open marriages actually have a more mature concept of love.


It's not about ownership it's about wanting the same thing that your spouse wants and ensuring that especially when the two of you get married.

Even in an open marriage, there is a sense of ownership on someone's freedom. A person who craves an open marriage is equally likely to say or think, that if their spouse will not let them have / does not approve of an open marriage, they will be served immediately with divorce papers. Or in any case, the open marriage seeker should have that attitude instead of trying to make it work with someone who does not want it.

People do have a way of talking as if they own someone. For example, I have met women who claim to have male friends and are adamant that they are not giving them up. I wonder what the wives / partners of those male friends would say to that.


----------



## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

This is stupid. What about the risks? STD's and all that? Emotional attachments (this does happen). If the poster told friends and family about this she would be judged. Marriage is intended for one man and one wife - NOT multiple partners. Seems to me infidelity is thriving and the husband agrees and supports his wife's behaviour.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Threeblessings said:


> This is stupid. What about the risks? STD's and all that? *Emotional attachments (this does happen).* If the poster told friends and family about this she would be judged. Marriage is intended for one man and one wife - NOT multiple partners. Seems to me infidelity is thriving and the husband agrees and supports his wife's behaviour.


Yeah, I have asked the OP about this in my Post 25 in this thread (yesterday) but she has not responded to it.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> It's not about ownership it's about wanting the same thing that your spouse wants and ensuring that especially when the two of you get married.
> 
> *So if both spouses want an open marriage....
> *
> ...


*I think you are confusing giving up the friend with giving up the friendship. *


----------



## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> Yeah, I have asked the OP about this in my Post 25 in this thread (yesterday) but she has not responded to it.


Most likely she is in denial???


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> Well if they are already banging each other, why didn't OWH and OMW get hitched with each other and solve their loneliness issues?


Frankly, I didn't care enough to ask. I had bigger fish to fry in my life than to play Dear Abbey to my cuckolded neighbor. At the time I felt like he deserved it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Threeblessings said:


> Most likely she is in denial???


No. 

She's a TAM bomber. 

Stirring up discord.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> No.
> 
> She's a TAM bomber.
> 
> ...


How is asking a question about a topic one is interested in "stirring up discord"?


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Personal said:


> As long as all parties are informed, consenting and honest, those persons can remain faithful while having sex with others.
> 
> Not if you are polygamous! Marriage comes in all sorts of flavours.


If you marry religiously, the no, you are incorrect. You forsake all other but your spouse. There is no way to remain faithful if you are with anyone but your spouse.





Personal said:


> My body is mine, I don't belong to my wife, I am no-one's property and I ought not to be used without my consent.
> 
> My wife's body is hers, my wife doesn't belong to me, She is no-one's property and she ought not to be used without her consent.


Actually, if you are marring religiously, her body does belong to you, as you belong to her. It's part of the vow and contract with God and your spouse. Now obviously, respect and honor goes hand in hand with owning each others body. You are not entitled to her body as she is not entitled to yours.



For me, I had a religious marriage.
I took the vow to forsake all others except for my wife.
I gave my vow and oath to my wife and my God of worship.

I don't see any wiggle room in there for another. Even if it's consented. Even if she needed me to be with another woman in order for her to get off sexually and emotionally. Because of the vow and oath, I am no longer being faithful to her and the vow. It's approved, but it's still being unfaithful none the less.

If one partner isn't enough, then why marry? If you must get your needs fulfilled outside of a spouse, why marry? I would hazard a guess that many don't understand this. I freely admit I am too ignorant to understand. I am not enlightened enough to go along with this idea. That's just me.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

@snerg, monogamy was started the Romans before the advent of Christianity. It was only a mix of religion and culture and you have a marriage between a man and woman. But, your religion does not own marriage, nor did your religion come up with the concept of monogamy. Early Jews and Christians were not monogamous.

There are idealistic ideals on both sides of the argument that I do not like, whether monogamous or open.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

There are two ways to look at this:


(01) Non faith 

Anything goes, can talk your way out of everything, justify anything away, marriage is a piece of paper, only civil union, etc. And then this leads to open adulterous marriages, and these people see nothing wrong with it.....and then they wonder why it doesn't work. Really?! 

(02) Faith

Marriage is special, under God, holy bonds of matrimony, not just a piece of paper or civil union. You actually are faithful to each other and take your marriage vows seriously. No sleeping with other people, you are faithful and loving to each other. Respecting each other, each others parents, kids involved, etc. 


The difference between the two is night and day. One is morally void trying to justify away the sinful lusts and behaviors and the other isn't perfect but really makes the effort out of love and what marriage is really about. Again, one way is anything goes and they don't take marriage seriously and the other does.

What would both sets of parents think?

Your kids?

What will you say before God?

Marriage is just a piece of paper and civil union......Just stay single and party it up then. Don't insult what marriage is truly about and try to talk your way out of it and justify your lustful lifestyles away and make excuses. In the end, you're only fooling yourself and we all answer for what we did in life. 

Be faithful and loving to each other or stay single and have an open dating relationship. Fewer divorces this way.

Why get married in the first place to just sleep with other people????


----------



## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Donna got what he wanted in this thread.


----------



## Caribvistors (Jan 13, 2013)

I think that Donna asked in her opening question for comments from couples, especially woman, who were engaged in an "open marriage" in order to discuss their experiences and maybe address some of her yet to be asked questions. 

What she got in response from the members were numerous postings on the morality of the open marriage or swinger life style.

There were many reports on this thread of folks who have engaged in these types of life styles frequently getting divorced after running off with one of their new partners, maybe even a neighbor. There is a whole separate page devoted to "Infidelity", that seems to have the most postings on this web site. Thankfully couples who are in conventional marriages, keeping their wedding vows, would never succumb to temptation and that could lead to acts of infidelity, which often results in divorce. Apparently "swingers and open marriages" couples are the ones in the most danger of splitting up.

The relationship that Donna has with her husband has evolved into a cuckold marriage. Her husband wants her to engage with other men and return home to provide all the vivid details. He gets satisfaction from knowing that other men find his wife attractive (sexy) and that she enjoys unfettered sex with her new partners. That is why he "needs" her to tell him all of the particulars. Based upon what she wrote, he has changed, as he apparently no longer is looking to get involved with other women for his satisfaction. Most of their open marriage encounters seem to just involved a MFM scenario, which gave him visual opportunity, which is often craved by a cuckold.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> What she got in response from the members were numerous postings on the morality of the open marriage or swinger life style.


I think of it as impractical more than I think of it as immoral.

And unless you source your sex partners through swingers circles, I am sure that there will be a lot of misunderstanding. 

Back in my single days, when I tried on the FB or FWB lifestyle, and the guy fully agreed with me about the NSA side of it, they still got pissy when my behavior matched my words. 

I can't imagine a married woman would have any better experiences in convincing a guy...."really, my husband doesn't care whether I get home before dawn or not." Now where's the excitement in that.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Omego said:


> This is correct, but swinging/open marriage has nothing to do with same sex partnerships/marriage.
> 
> I don't see how this could be explained to children in a way that makes in acceptable. It would be better to simply not tell them and keep it private, between the parents, as best as possible, in my opinion.


It is definately not the same as same sex marriages. But can you see yourself being able to explain same sex marriages to children but not being able to explain open marriages to children? And I'll assume you have never had experience in either types of relationships to explain them properly.

Children should be taught about the diversity OF relationships. Then as they grow into their own adulthood, they can choose diversity IN their relationships.


----------



## donna32 (Sep 11, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> IMO, posts like ^this^ (and ESPECIALLY when featured as the initial post in a new thread) should go a bit more in depth in terms of discussing some of the ins and outs of maintaining the types of non-traditional relationships that they more or less endorse.
> 
> For example, what would you like others to know w/ respect to the types of rules that you and your husband have in place in order to ward off attachments to your lovers?
> 
> ...


i do have a lot to share. however, at this point i expected about 6 responses, not 4 pages of responses. i will read everything and respond to all of the serious ones, be nasty to all the nasty ones and joke along with all of the clowns. but, your comment is the one that i will get to after i get caught up. thanks for asking that specific question.:smile2:


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> If Mrs.CuddleBug came to me one day and said, I can have another woman on the side because she is LD and doesn't want to get in shape, that would be the ultimate temptation.
> 
> Now would I actually get another woman that does love adventurous sex HD and takes care of herself? I would say more than likely NO. I would love to do it of course but that would destroy our marriage in the end.



CB- I've followed your posts/threads for a long time now because I can relate to your struggles. I admire your integrity. I don't have your strength.

If your wife said all that and added nothing you do would change her sexual desire, even wIth her weight loss. In fact, with the weight loss, she tried her best and hoped that her sexual desire would increase. Your Libido increased even more with her weight loss. Sex was just too much work. She just doesn't want to lose you.

So she told you just that. She told you that you can have a sexual relationship with other women. She even went a step further and found a HOT woman for you, free of STI's and who didn't want, need, or desire the emotional attachment. This woman also thought you were hot, she had a high Libido, and kinky to boot. You wife said it wouldn't hurt her if it made you happy because loves you more than anybody she has ever loved - Ever! If you having sex with other women can prevent a divorce, she will take that risk because she doesn't want to lose you.


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Personal said:


> I can't see how it's your concern if other consenting adults choose to have more than one sexual partner.


It's not my concern. 

It's simply something that I don't understand.

Everything I have posted was an attempt to show "for me" why I don't get it, why I don't understand.

Who am I to judge. If that's what works for you, then by all means keep it going.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Marriage was never and will never be a box of chocolates.....you still get some nuts.:grin2:

Marriage is tough with sacrifices and not still do whatever you want.

Marriage is special and not just a piece of paper or civil union.

When you get married, its for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and in health, etc. It's not, my hubby or wifee is LD, and they're telling me to have another man or woman for sex on the side. It's being faithful to each other and that also means physically and sexually.

Now I understand why some might allow their spouse to have an open marriage because of physical issues resulting in minimal to almost no sex. Wait a minute.....my wife Mrs.CuddleBug is exactly that way and LD and do I go out and find a friend with benefits??? NO. Do I demand an open marriage or I want a divorce?? NO. That's breaking your marriage vows and committing adultery on purpose.

My solution was simple. I bought us sex toys. I use mine when I'm really in the mood, instead of going out and having sex with another woman. It's not ideal, but it beats cheating and committing adultery.

I found out my main love language and so did Mrs.CuddleBug. Turns out I am Physical rating 12 and she is Acts of Service rating 12. 
We learned more about how to connect with each other.

Marriage isn't easy. For us its been a real roller coaster. I get layed off and find another job. Or someone dies in the family. Or someone has serious health issues. Mrs.CuddleBug has gained her weight back and only wants sex 1x month, yet I am HD adventurous and could have sex every day and with toys. I still listen to her, hold and cuddle with her and be there for her. I don't sneak out to relieve myself with another woman and I don't tell Mrs.CuddleBug let me have another woman on the side or I want a divorce.

Now you could always divorce but still be great friends. I have seen this a lot actually. Then get another woman that's into sex.

You could stay single and have open dating relationships, which is great too. I would if I was single.:grin2:

But I chose to get married with Mrs.CuddleBug and through all the ups and downs, I am staying faithful and toughing this to the end.

Marriage is hubby and wifee and not hubby and wifee and another man or woman.

And the current excuse for adults is, "its not hurting anyone and we're consenting adults." Doesn't change the fact you are purposely committing adultery and sleeping with other people and breaking your marriage vows.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

When adults are in consent and are open in their needs and desires, then, whatever, they do in their marriage is their business. If OP, does not mind her situation and they both enjoy her having sex with different men. I am not going to judge her marriage. Heck, maybe I do things in my bedroom, that, some people will think is immoral. 

What I would have an issue with is if she feels pressured into having an open marriage, so that he can indulge in his fetish. But who am I, to tell people how to live their lives. 

Marriage is hard. I know, I have been marriage for 22 years. The first ten was really difficult, raising a young family and learning to find a balance. The last 10 or so was really great because we have learn how to speak and demand what we need.

Marriages comes in all different flavors. For me, an open marriage just would not work. I would be jealousy if my husband fu!ked another woman. That would totally mess with my head. For my husband, the idea of a another man touching me would lead to someone being in jail. And if I knowingly went and have another man touch me and have sex with me, he would not want me again. I would no longer be his. (not property but belonging to with love, respect and fidelity). 

If we are looking at marriages in a religious point of view, then open marriages is against religion. As a civil union a contract between 2 people, then, it is breaking that contract. So, maybe we should stop using the term "open marriage" and call these situation something else. What, I don't know.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

You get married because you truly love that person.

Your hubby or wifee is who you have intimacy and sex with and no one else.

Marriage was meant to be between hubby and wifee and not other men and women. That's sleeping around, an orgy, adultery and why even get married in the first place?

If you are going to sleep with someone else besides your wife or husband, you are cheating and disrespecting them. 

If they're not good enough for you, why did you marry them in the first place?

Imagine how different it would be if couples actually took their marriage vows seriously. Not out of rules but true love and respect for each other.

Imagine how much lower the divorce rates would be.

What are they today? 50%? Higher?

So sleeping around on your spouse helps this right? No.

It's almost like basic morality and right and wrong have gone out the window and we're starting from scratch again. Come full circle?

If marriage is just a piece of paper, then stay single, have open relationships and party it up.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> You get married because you truly love that person.
> 
> Your hubby or wifee is who you have intimacy and sex with and no one else.
> 
> ...


Is two married, consenting adults considered still "cheating" on each other?


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Apexmale said:


> Is two married, consenting adults considered still "cheating" on each other?


*Open marriages/relationships are pretty much what dogs do when they are in heat!  Ces pas? *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *Open marriages/relationships are pretty much what dogs do when they are in heat!  Ces pas? *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only the French...


----------



## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Marriage was meant to be between hubby and wifee and not other men and women. That's sleeping around, an orgy, adultery and why even get married in the first place?
> 
> If you are going to sleep with someone else besides your wife or husband, you are cheating and disrespecting them.


My LW and her Exhubby had this odd sort of arrangement where once every month or so they would invite a guest (or two) into their bedroom. She says... that she did not consider it 'cheating' as long as her hubby was there in the room. Yeah... there's an interesting twist! But hey, it was their lives and their marriage and that's how they defined it. 

It was kind of funny when she tried to explain this to me. She asked if I ever fantasized about having two women in bed. I laughed and said: No. I have enough trouble with one... then she went on to say that some women fantasize about having two men, and that her and her Ex did both scenarios.

I thought about this for weeks. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what three people might do at once. Once I did finally figure it, I really wish I hadn't. But again, it's just not my thing, and I'm not going to try to force my ideals on anyone else. Ultimately, I'm only responsible for myself.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Not married, but there is a misconception about open marriage. Me and my partner do not go around sleeping with everyone we are attracted to. So far, in about 8 months time, we both slept with another person twice. Our primary focus is on us as a couple.

Since we did not cause each other harm, I do not see it as immoral. If one of us were hurt and we dismissed the others feelings, then it might be an issue.

And no one owns the concept of morality.

Even in Christian history, and Jewish history, polygamy was moral and love had not much to do with marriage, that is a much later concept.

And no, I do not get sexual excitement from my gf sleeping with another man just like she does not for me. Our relationship style is socially monogamous but not sexually. Because of it, we work to keep that relationship strong for the best odds of success and if she finds another she can love more than me, then I will let her go. I do not have forever in mind when it comes to relationship,that is an highly idealistic ideal. Luckily for me, I am not so heavily reliant on my relationship for life satisfaction, so it is easy to detach and move on if necessary.

I undestand some wanting the ilusion of safety when it comes to monogamy, and sometimes that works for the people involved. Personally, I have witnessed a mixed bag of results when it comes to open marriage, just like monogamous ones.

Here is the thing, some on here do not own the definition of marriage. The institution has existed before your religious one did, and taking the concept of monogamy from a pagan culture and making it your own is disingenuous. Again, monogamy predates Christianity.

A majority of people probably cannot handle an open relationship, but do not tell me and my gf that it does not work for us or others on here that had made it last for years. We humans vary in our mating habits.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> And no one owns the concept of morality


I do. 

Wanna see the receipt?


----------



## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I do.
> 
> Wanna see the receipt?



About that bounced check...

:wink2:


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I can think of all sorts of fun things I could do with two women in bed. Its a fantastic fantasy.

For me though, it wouldn't work in reality for a variety of social / emotional reasons. 

For people with the correct emotional makeup, I can imagine it would be great fun and I wish them the best. 





MrVanilla said:


> I thought about this for weeks. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what three people might do at once. Once I did finally figure it, I really wish I hadn't. But again, it's just not my thing, and I'm not going to try to force my ideals on anyone else. Ultimately, I'm only responsible for myself.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> *I can think of all sorts of fun things I could do with two women in bed. Its a fantastic fantasy.*
> 
> For me though, it wouldn't work in reality for a variety of social / emotional reasons.
> ...


*Oh, I can too, @richard! Bearing repetition of an old Rodney Dangerfield joke line, "I so badly want to have a ménage-a-trois with two absolutely beautiful women. Why you ask? Because at my advanced age, if I should end up falling asleep on them, they'd still have each other to talk to!" *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Caribvistors said:


> I think that Donna asked in her opening question for comments from couples, especially woman, who were engaged in an "open marriage" in order to discuss their experiences and maybe address some of her yet to be asked questions.
> 
> What she got in response from the members were numerous postings on the morality of the open marriage or swinger life style.
> 
> There were many reports on this thread of folks who have engaged in these types of life styles frequently getting divorced after running off with one of their new partners, maybe even a neighbor. There is a whole separate page devoted to "Infidelity", that seems to have the most postings on this web site. Thankfully couples who are in conventional marriages, keeping their wedding vows, would never succumb to temptation and that could lead to acts of infidelity, which often results in divorce. Apparently "swingers and open marriages" couples are the ones in the most danger of splitting up.


We have a biased sample here. Nonconventional couples who stay together don't end up posting on TAM. So the reports we see are primarily, if not completely, from people whose nonconventional relationship did not work out.

I don't think we can draw much information from the TAM experience.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> We have a biased sample here. Nonconventional couples who stay together don't end up posting on TAM. So the reports we see are primarily, if not completely, from people whose nonconventional relationship did not work out.
> 
> I don't think we can draw much information from the TAM experience.


Very true. Going by TAM, it would seem that almost all conventional marriages are dysfunctional, broken, and destined to fail. Let's extrapolate that to mean ALL conventional marriages will go down the same sad path - it's just a matter of time.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> We have a biased sample here. Nonconventional couples who stay together don't end up posting on TAM. So the reports we see are primarily, if not completely, from people whose nonconventional relationship did not work out.
> 
> I don't think we can draw much information from the TAM experience.


Personally, I don't post about it because of all the nasty commentary from the peanut gallery.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

nobodyspecial said:


> personally, i don't post about it because of all the nasty commentary from the peanut gallery.


bingo!!!


----------

