# Need some advice urgently .. not proud of what I did ...



## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

I found out by accident that my husband has been having an affair. I went through some emails that had been going back and forth.

I went insane! I am in England on holiday with my kids and we live in Australia. He works for an international company a well known company.

In my fog of disbelief, hurt, anger and pain I posted on the Companys Webiste the name of my cheating husband and name of his other woman who also works at the company.

It has caused a bit of a stir as you can imagine. I also sent a message to his boss and MD.

My husband is remorseful. I would have had no idea an affair had taken place if I did not come across the emails. I called him and he admitted it. 

Anyway the point is .... He is probably going to loose his job over this. However, he has asked me to write a grovelling apology and state that I have been mistaken and that no affair had taken place.

If my husband cannot get a job, we will loose our house. I will probably write and apology (public) knowing that it is not true. His colleagues are going to think he is married to some nutter. However, is this better than him loosing his job?

Any advice would be welcome .. please


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Forgot to say .. when I did post comments on the companys' website I was very drunk. I don't drink normally but just couldn't cope with being alone and sad. Not right and fair I know.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Well here you have the choice between lying and your financial security.

First I would try and just tell the bosses that you got drunk and made a mistake. If they buy that without other questions and do not fire your husband then you could get by lucky. If they do not and you want to lie to save your financial situation then I would not condemn you.

As for the affair, you need to set some guidelines that require certain actions for years for your husband to follow. If he needs to have a strong incentive to follow through on his actions to rehabilitate you could always send his bosses the emails.

If your husband does not correct his infidelity then your marriage will not last and your financial security will be significantly damaged.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Well, in one way you did what we advise and expose the affair. You probably did more to save your marriage in that one drunken swipe than many people do in six months [cough].

This is the priority now. His job is very much second because as much as you think an affair causes damage, you want to try a Divorce!

Ok. So I agree with the advice that you should apologize for posting on the company website. 
You do not apologize for the content. 
You do not suck it up for your now remorseful [o-m-g-i-got-caught Husband.]
It is a consequence of the affair that you ALL have to pay.

He is going to have to change jobs anyway. The OW can not be in his life at all. 

There are going to be a lot of changes and a lot of financial hits, but if he really is remorseful. he will agree to them


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You don't grovel to him about ANYTHING, and in any WAY SHAPE OR FORM

he cheated, and now he suffers your consequences-------if there is any groveling to be done---it needs to come from him, as he shows remorse, repentance, and hoes all the heavy lifting to get back into your good graces, and back into the mge---if that is what you want

He should NEVER get to demand or even ask for what he wants

This is your ballgame, played by your rules, and if he doesn't like it---he can see a D., atty anytime---and make sure you make it very plain to him,---he does what you want, or he leaves


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Looks like your husband needs to start job hunting... FAST.

He caused this problem not you. 

What's happening to the women he had an affair with?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Looks like your husband needs to start job hunting... FAST.
> 
> He caused this problem not you.
> 
> What's happening to the women he had an affair with?


She is still working at the same company, same department.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

itskaren said:


> She is still working at the same company, same department.


So the company does not care about the affair? They only care about appearance? Like the nutty email sent by a very upset drunk wife?

Or is it your husband who wants the apology to cover his tracks?

I’m not sure it’s worth doing the apology. It is what it is. No apology to the company will make them accept either your posting or his affair.

You can try but I doubt it will save his job if they plan to can him over this.

He does need to job hunt because your marriage cannot be repaired if he's working with the other woman. He cannot ever have any contact with her again.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> So the company does not care about the affair? They only care about appearance? Like the nutty email sent by a very upset drunk wife?
> 
> Or is it your husband who wants the apology to cover his tracks?
> 
> ...


I think it is in their contract that they are not allowed to have affairs and that it is instant dismissal. He was been working away and will be back in the office tomorrow and has been aaked to see the MD immediately. So I am assumming that it is not to offer him a cream tea...


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

I understand totally that affairs happen for a reason. I need to take some responsibility in this too. It's just the way it has all come out. There was no need for an affair :-(


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Affairs happen due to poor boundaries and a lack of morals. Don't you dares take any blame for his affair!

If he was unhappy he should have told you he was, if he was slipping in the marriage he should have opened up, if he wanted to f*ck other women he should have never got married, or divorced you in order to go do what he likes. 

And I don't think you did the wrong thing at all. If he kept his job he would still be working with OW and you would be feeling sick with panic every day in case he is screwing her still. 

No! What you did was ace!

You killed the affair and exposed in one fell swoop...brilliant! Surely not living limbo hell, not having to go through the not knowing if he continues affair, all that is worth any sacrifices IMO. And it would be good for your H to experience some tough repurcussions of losing job and house, that which he had provided for his family gone through his own stupidity! Don't write the letter, don't apologise, stand by all you said, and keep your head high.

Can you live with the sacrifice of a smaller house? Can you live with less money for peace of mind and your integrity in tact?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains said:


> Affairs happen due to poor boundaries and a lack of morals. Don't you dares take any blame for his affair!
> 
> If he was unhappy he should have told you he was, if he was slipping in the marriage he should have opened up, if he wanted to f*ck other women he should have never got married, or divorced you in order to go do what he likes.
> 
> ...


Food for thought .. thank you


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

> Well, in one way you did what we advise and expose the affair. *You probably did more to save your marriage in that one drunken swipe than many people do in six months *[cough].


totally. this is affair-busting 101.


there's nothing you should be ashamed of.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

Im sorry but that has to be a blatent lie about a company policy regarding infidelity, there is no way! Dont let him make his problem your problem. Is this company policy something you knew a long time ago or is it something he told you after you busted him. That sounds like a very creative way of covering his tracks because he is so embarassed. If you go through with that yes you will look like the wackjob not him. By the way, ultimately if you decide to leave him because of the affair you will be selling the house anyway. Just try to think it out but he brought this on himself not you. gl2u


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Karen,
Sorry you are here, but keep posting and you will get very good support from other people who have walked im similar shoes.

I think it is good that your husband is facing emediate and hard consequences of his actions. He knew it was against company policy and yet he chose to disregard. He also knew that you wouldn't approve of his cheating, yet he chose to disregard. Now it's time for him to pay for the meal he had of his own choice.

If you cave and apologize, he will learn that you sort of accept his behaviour. You have shown great strength here - and don't you dare take any responsibility for his poor choices!!

If you had any difficulties in your marriage whatsoever, there must have been hundreds of ways other than cheating to handle them.

Hang in there, you don't deserve to be cheated on, and you should not take the blame for you husbands bad behaviour.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Karen,

I take a rather more pragmatic view. Lie like the devil to your husband's boss. Tell him anything. 

BUT.

Make sure your husband emails you or that you have some evidence that he is asking you to lie on his behalf and recant the accusations.

Then, if everything goes wrong or your husband is not sufficiently remorseful, you can ensure that he gets fired: 1 - for the affair and 2- for pressuring you into lying.

In the meantime, lying to his boss buys you that most valuable of commodities - TIME.

Putting the added pressure of having no home and not being able to eat is something you don't need.

This isn't about vengeance, it's about REAL LIFE.

Once you have done this and assured short term financial security, then get to work on your husband.

Please do not get your husband the sack. It achieves nothing and punishes you.

Have you heard the phrase "Cutting your nose off to spite your face"?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

No letter, no way no how. 
Suggest to him that he ask his affair partner to write a letter of appology on the company website appologizing to the company, to you and to her husband/boyfriend.

Dont discount the theory that he is trying to protect his affair partner(AP) by having you appear to be a crazed psycho. she may be in deep trouble with her husband - 

If he's any good at his job it shouldnt take long to find another job. Seek legal advice. If the company has such a policy you MAY be able to institute a suit against them for failing to enforce their non-frat policy. Your lawyer can threaten to depose all workmates to see if the affair was common knowledge to people with authority or duty to report it.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Karen,
> 
> I take a rather more pragmatic view. Lie like the devil to your husband's boss. Tell him anything.
> 
> ...



Not sure I agree with this. 

The "no affair rule" at the company is there for a reason. Him getting fired is justice and may save the marriage. 

If you save his job and he gets to see the OW every day he will not be the man he is supposed to be to his wife.

A marriage can overcome financial issues easier that continued cheating and lying. 

Plus at this point I would stick to the high road and lying is not the high road.

Apologize for the email but reiterate that the content is true.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

At this point I don't know that it matters.

Frequently, people see things. People talk. But people also want to keep their heads down and not get old George the sack over a bit of sex.

UNTIL the bigwigs start to ask questions. Suddenly they decide that lying in an investigation isn't worth their job.

Most likely, people knew about it before but you made it impossible to rug sweep.

So you could lie. I'm just not sure if that loss of integrity will gain you anything.


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## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Karen

Listen closely. Even if you do take it back, it is done. You can bet that the human resources and IT department have already pulled their email logs and because they were work f^ckbuddies, they have all the evidence they need to fire your husband and her.

Taking it back will not work and just make you miserable for lying for your lying husband.

And one more thing - he is remorseful? What has he done in the last few days to take ownership of the affair and rectify it. He is SORRY HE WAS CAUGHT. He would have gone on cheating if you had not exposed it. Be careful that you are letting your fear over losing a house, no matter how gorgeous and palacial it might be, over your mental health. We betrayed spouses can screw ourselves royally thinking the wayward spouse has changed when they really have not.

Strength to you. But my best advice is get in contact with your solicitor and start the divorce proceedings. This need not be a final act, but it will protect you and your kids.

He has a lot of work to do.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I understand totally that affairs happen for a reason. I need to take some responsibility in this too. It's just the way it has all come out. There was no need for an affair :-(


You don't take any blame for the A. No marriage is perfect. Your H took it on himself to go outside your marriage.

Exposing the A is actually one of the first things you're supposed to do. Your drunken move was a good one, and probably saved you some grief.

Your H needs to go no contact with the other woman. That means he can't work there anymore anyway. You may lose your house. If he keeps working there with her you will lose your M.

It feels wrong when you're going through it, but taking strong action is the best route. It ends the mess quickly. People that try to nice their WS out of an A always get dragged through the mud.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I would go to the MD and apologize for airing the dirty laundry of your marriage in such a public manner. Explain that you were had been drinking out of despondency and that it was still inexcusable. Apolgize on behalf of your husband, saying you are sorry he shamed himself and the company in this way.

Politely ask that both parties be given good letters of reference, since you have children. This also suggests that BOTH parties should be sacked, not just one. Additionally, the OW is probably going to be going through a divorce most likely (you DO intend to expose her, don't you?) so she'll need an income.

You then appear as someone who owns up to their mistakes, who cares about her family and is trying to mitigate the damage to your family, with the firm understanding that you are asking for MERCY, not something owed.

It might impress him enough to adjust exactly what happens, such as giving him 2 weeks or so to find something else.


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

roostr said:


> Im sorry but that has to be a blatent lie about a company policy regarding infidelity, there is no way! Dont let him make his problem your problem. Is this company policy something you knew a long time ago or is it something he told you after you busted him. That sounds like a very creative way of covering his tracks because he is so embarassed. If you go through with that yes you will look like the wackjob not him. By the way, ultimately if you decide to leave him because of the affair you will be selling the house anyway. Just try to think it out but he brought this on himself not you. gl2u


In the USA many companies have this in handbook policies
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

As others have said what you did was actually the best possible thing you could have done to end te affair. It's good you didn't over think it and talk yourself into inaction.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Tell him that he'll just have to get another job...as he would ANYWAY, due to your finding out about the affair he had with a coworker. The public exposure really doesn't change anything , IMO, as hopefully, you would have demanded he change jobs as part of no contact. This just forces him to move his ass a little quicker.

What's the other choice? Embarass yourself by grovelling to his boss so that the two cheaters can continue humiliating you by carrying on with their affair? No way.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

You might not realize it for awhile, but you did the right thing.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I agree with Pit ... and I wish to hell that more people would act this way.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Well I guess he has to find a new job. You play you pay!


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Got to hand it to you lady, you did a grand job.

If more of the sexual workplace encounters where thrown up there for all to see it would to a degree add a little of a deterrent and may be it would act as a reverse Viagra to the process. 

OK Your H wants an email saying itwas all lies, drunken mistake what ever you like to wrap it up as - Hes going to loose his job, your home........... Did he mention his family, his wife?

Because in actual fact you can get a home, you can get a job, it may not be the big payer but washing dishes is a job and as long as it pays the bills why woory, loads are loosing their jobs by the day around the world through no fault of their own simpley a recession. Getting your wife and family back is a damned amount more difficult. 

No I wouldnt back down, no I wouldnt be made to be the bad person here, no I wouldnt worry if the other party in tis loses their job job as she knew what she was doing was wrong. What would have happend if the other woman had a Hubby who did what you did, would your H be asking him to say hed been drinking, it was all a mistake... Nope it wouldnt happen. Hes been caught, you found out, didnt give him and her a chance to cover their rear ends and you let fly with a massive salvo that hit them when they least expected it. He now been seen as a cheat and of course a liar. The MD if hes got a pair will drag them in and make it worse. Companies now hate this sort of thing as it breaks their image of honesty and welbeing. Just as much as you the innocent party does really. Sadlt You H now needs to get home, get on his kness and beg for forgiveness - seeing what his priority was Im a little doubtful he will until hes is pushed.

Consider legal advice as Im sure they will tell you not to make that statement as the who issue will reflect on you and, if you found him at it again they will not believe you next time.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> No letter, no way no how.
> Suggest to him that he ask his affair partner to write a letter of appology on the company website appologizing to the company, to you and to her husband/boyfriend.
> 
> Dont discount the theory that he is trying to protect his affair partner(AP) by having you appear to be a crazed psycho. she may be in deep trouble with her husband -
> ...



Apparrently the other woman is separate and has been in a sexless marriage all her married life so my husband told me.

I just can't think straight anymore.

Thanks for all you wishes . I really appreciate them. Is it me or does everyone else seem happy? Walking around the lovely Bath today in Somerset everyone is smiling!! Stop it please I am depressed and no one knows! x


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

regretfullyhis said:


> In the USA many companies have this in handbook policies
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. It is actually a USA company.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You might not realize it for awhile, but you did the right thing.


100% agree....time will prove you right and you will see you madr the right choice.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Your WH is not sory for the affair. He is acting as he is sorry for being caught.

WH was a liar and now wants to turn you into a liar.

Do not recant the truth.

You do recant the truth this affair will continue.

You need to expose this affair to the OMW.

You want to have an affair free marriage or you want your WH paycheck.

WH has to go NC with the OW anyway so WH has to leave this job or your marriage will not last.

If you think the job is more important then tha marriage then get divorced because it shows you do not value the marriage any more then your WH does.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I found out by accident that my husband has been having an affair. I went through some emails that had been going back and forth.
> 
> I went insane! I am in England on holiday with my kids and we live in Australia. He works for an international company a well known company.
> 
> ...


Tell him to screw off....wait he already did that. DO NOT write that letter. There are other jobs he can get. His affair is what is going to cause him to lose his job, it only helped that it was exposed. Does his AP work for the same company.

Have him write a letter of apology to his company and he should grovel to keep his job.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

On another note, if the other woman is not fired and he is, there might be a case legally. That could ease the money situation. Please do not feel bad about exposing him. And yes we all have problem before the affair starts, but a BS does not make the choice to bring a third person in. When Dday first happens the worst thing you can do is let a WS put any blame on you. The only time you should start talking about the marriage prior is when the WS is able to admit the affair was solely their blame and WANTS to stay married (you need reasons why). Please continue to ask questions here....we can help!!!


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you all for your help. I have never felt so alone in my life but it feels good that I have support here .


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

And don't drink so much. God raised the dead in three days. You can get over the visceral stupidity you feel right now in the same amount of time.

The hurt will last a while though. Just get over the 'stupids'


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Karen, tell your husband that you will not lie. Tell him that you're willing to post a message apologizing for the misuse of the company site and nothing more. Also tell him that if he can undo what he did with this woman then you, by the same magic, will undo your post.

Karen, you need to stand strong against this. He has humiliated you. *YOU DID NOT POST THAT MESSAGE, the person he created through his infidelity posted the message*. Tell him to un-create it. Also tell him to not come home without a job, tell him having a cheating spouse is one thing, but an unemployed, cheating spouse is nonnegotiable and that he'll find his belongings on the front porch when he gets back.

If he wants to keep his job then he better crawl and kiss some a$$ at work.

T


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Karen, tell your husband that you will not lie. Tell him that you're willing to post a message apologizing for the misuse of the company site and nothing more. Also tell him that if he can undo what he did with this woman then you, by the same magic, will undo your post.
> 
> Karen, you need to stand strong against this. He has humiliated you. *YOU DID NOT POST THAT MESSAGE, the person he created through his infidelity posted the message*. Tell him to un-create it. Also tell him to not come home without a job, tell him having a cheating spouse is one thing, but an unemployed, cheating spouse is nonnegotiable and that he'll find his belongings on the front porch when he gets back.
> 
> ...


On the money.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Karen, tell your husband that you will not lie. Tell him that you're willing to post a message apologizing for the misuse of the company site and nothing more. Also tell him that if he can undo what he did with this woman then you, by the same magic, will undo your post.
> 
> Karen, you need to stand strong against this. He has humiliated you. *YOU DID NOT POST THAT MESSAGE, the person he created through his infidelity posted the message*. Tell him to un-create it. Also tell him to not come home without a job, tell him having a cheating spouse is one thing, but an unemployed, cheating spouse is nonnegotiable and that he'll find his belongings on the front porch when he gets back.
> 
> ...


I liked it but that's strong words in this economy. I've had two neighbors unemployed for months.

She isn't thinking of him. She has mouths to feed and kids don't care who dad is humping if they are hungry.

Yes, he put them there. They will still be hungry.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

JCD said:


> And don't drink so much. God raised the dead in three days. You can get over the visceral stupidity you feel right now in the same amount of time.
> 
> The hurt will last a while though. Just get over the 'stupids'


I really don't drink very often. I just had to do something to dull the physical and mental pain that I was suffering.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Karen, tell your husband that you will not lie. Tell him that you're willing to post a message apologizing for the misuse of the company site and nothing more. Also tell him that if he can undo what he did with this woman then you, by the same magic, will undo your post.
> 
> Karen, you need to stand strong against this. He has humiliated you. *YOU DID NOT POST THAT MESSAGE, the person he created through his infidelity posted the message*. Tell him to un-create it. Also tell him to not come home without a job, tell him having a cheating spouse is one thing, but an unemployed, cheating spouse is nonnegotiable and that he'll find his belongings on the front porch when he gets back.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. I have thought about your post and I have indeed put a post on the company website and apologised that it was not the vehicle that I should have used to be angry and upset etc. I explained that I was drunk (no excuse) and that I did not mean to cause offence to others not involved.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

itskaren said:


> Apparrently the other woman is separate and has been in a sexless marriage all her married life so my husband told me.


Don't believe any word from your husband's mouth for now, even less those which are clearly designed to "nice out" OW, to protect her reputation and morals. You shound be outraged for this. This kind of excusing her, painting her in a better light is very worrisome. He will use the same lines with you, he already did, sold her his sob story so he felt better about himself. Chances are OW also lied to him.
Cheaters lie, to themselves, to thier affair partners and of course to thier legit partners. They become skilled liars.
Affairs are always a huge web of lies.


Don't recant about the exposure. If you stumbled upon here before the exposure we surely would suggest you to do so in order to kill the affair. It's the better option. Furthermore, you need to *keep exposing*, *specially to OW's BH*, find him, contact him, expose them. Keep the pressure to kill the affiar. How did you believe you were to manage the fact your husband is going to work everyday ans see OW? You will go nuts. Don't regret the exposure.
Jobs come and go, houses come and go. The marriage, the family is the main priority, right?


I'm sorry you had to need us. Please take care of yourself, of your children. Keep reading, keep posting.

Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Repeat this to your self once and again becuase it's true: You didndt cause it, you are not to blame.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

DO NOT TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS CHOICE TO CHEAT!!!

The state of your marriage has NOTHING to do with the fact that he made a CHOICE to cheat. The state of your marriage is just that, the state of your marriage. If things weren't perfect - do you really think that gives him permission to do what he did? Did you take his penis and put it into another woman's vagina? Because, unless you did, it is 100% totally and completely HIS FAULT he cheated. NOT yours.

Please read the newbie link in my signature.

And BRAVO for posting what he did on the company website! I love it!!!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

itskaren said:


> Apparrently the other woman is separate and has been in a sexless marriage all her married life so my husband told me.
> 
> I just can't think straight anymore.
> 
> Thanks for all you wishes . I really appreciate them. Is it me or does everyone else seem happy? Walking around the lovely Bath today in Somerset everyone is smiling!! Stop it please I am depressed and no one knows! x


What is he ? A Robinhood helping women in sexless marriages ? Ask him if he would be OK if you find a man in sexless marriages to have affairs with..


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I would not apologize for what you said but if this will impact your children's well being, perhaps an apology to the company for the manner in which you did it.

Meanwhile, easy on the drinking - you need a clear head to deal with this and that will not help. 

There is some great advice in this thread. I wish you luck!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Please listen to Tony and Acabado. Read their responses again. They pretty much say what every other poster says. 

Im sure he told her HE was in a failing sexless marriage too. Dont take his word that she is a helpless divorced woman. I think he is trying his best to keep her from becoming one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

itskaren said:


> Apparrently the other woman is separate and has been in a sexless marriage all her married life so my husband told me.
> 
> I just can't think straight anymore.
> 
> Thanks for all you wishes . I really appreciate them. Is it me or does everyone else seem happy? Walking around the lovely Bath today in Somerset everyone is smiling!! Stop it please I am depressed and no one knows! x


It's very typical for things like this to be said about the affair partner's spouse. you have no idea if any of it is true.

My son's father cheated on me quite a bit. He used to tell women that we was in a sexless marriage... poor little him.

What he forgot to tell those women is that the marriage was sexless because he decided that he did not want sex in the marriage. He is a doc... it was just so easy to pick up on med students, nurses and hospital staff for sex that it was not worth having to put the effort into a marriage.


Your husband told you that about her as a way to protect her and make her seem more sympathetic. You husband has no idea what is really going on in her marriage. Don't buy his story.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

itskaren said:


> Thanks for this. I have thought about your post and I have indeed put a post on the company website and apologised that it was not the vehicle that I should have used to be angry and upset etc. I explained that I was drunk (no excuse) and that I did not mean to cause offence to others not involved.


That was a good way to handle it. Though I don't think it's exactly what you husband wanted because you did not cover up the affair for him.

It will be interesting to see if she, he or both of them are let go. 

For your sake I hope he survives this in his company. But he does have to find a new job if she stays there.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The sexless marriage line is just one the typical. Very common also is the "abusive husband" thing, which put them in the position of damsels in distress in search for a knight in shining armor (KISA).
Whetever they need to feed their partners ego so they get their's fed in exchangue. Affairs are mutual using.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> For your sake I hope he survives this in his company. But he does have to find a new job if she stays there.


:iagree:

Complete NC is a must.

Start thinking about your boundaires/demands.
NC letter
Complete transparence
Full disclosure to your satisfaction
_____ insert whatever you need.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I found that funny that he would say to you..she was in a sexless marriage, like you are supposed to be well in that case..good for you for helping this poor woman out. 

Sometimes the WS's say the stupidest things...

On DD#2, my H said about his EA who lived in Singapore..well I wasn't planning on bringing her over here it was just stupid chit chat...well in that case you know what, as long as she is not coming over here well go ahead and keep chatting with her...WTF! Idiot!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Apology or not, the odds are that he'll eventually lose his job. Companies, as a rule, generally don't care for things like what your husband did because there's no inherent company benefit to ever be derived from its occurance.

If this marriage is, in any way, going to be saved, you two should seek out MC immediately. Other than that, it would probably be the barrister that you would next want to talk with. 

Best of luck to you both!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

It's like the WS"s think that we are supposed to feel sorry for their AP's..yeah right!

H said to me as well that his EA was a nurse...like somehow I was supposed to be..oh a nurse..wow she must be a fantastic person then!!!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> Apology or not, the odds are that he'll eventually lose his job. Companies, as a rule, generally don't care for things like what your husband did because there's no inherent company benefit to ever be derived from its occurance.
> 
> If this marriage is, in any way, going to be saved, you two should seek out MC immediately. Other than that, it would probably be the barrister that you would next want to talk with.
> 
> Best of luck to you both!


Sadly, where I work, these things are covered up and the APs protected...! WTF! Not a very family oriented company I guess.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Sadly, where I work, these things are covered up and the APs protected...! WTF! Not a very family oriented company I guess.


Same here. Even though we are made to read/e-sign acknowledgement of the policy each January. Wouldnt be surprised if some sign w the AP sitting on their lap. We have over 14k employees and most travel in teams for dsys/weeks at a time


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## Lmodel (Jun 1, 2012)

Good for you, I think you did the right thing by outing him and her. If you love him and want to stay with him sell the house and downsize to something more affordable. Don't stoop to their level by lying, hold your chin up and stick by the truth.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Don't forget that you also need to get tested for STDs. Your husband should be tested as well.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

The plot thickens ... you really have to laugh.

As he is is Australia and I am in the UK it is getting difficult to communicate. The other woman worked in a previous company where he worked. This is where the affair begain. He changed companies and she followed! I he is a business development manager. She now has a post as a business something in the same company. I said to him ''did you give her a reference to join your company?' He said ''no, but I recommended her ...'' 

Please is it me???? He said she has got 2 months left on her contract then she will be going so just to wait until then. He has a meeting tomorrow with the MD so not sure as yet abut the job situation.

Why is he so stupid? He thinks he is making me feel better?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

So did you draft a letter for him? Or he is just going to beg forgiveness and not get fired?

Tell him if he writes a letter of recommendation for her new job then you are done. And you better damn well mean it. He basically got her a job so they could continue an affair. I would be pissed off!!!!!! 

By the way I am sure her contract that only last 2 months states the no affair policy also. That is up to the company as to wether or not she will last 2 months.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

underwater2010 said:


> So did you draft a letter for him? Or he is just going to beg forgiveness and not get fired?
> 
> Tell him if he writes a letter of recommendation for her new job then you are done. And you better damn well mean it. He basically got her a job so they could continue an affair. I would be pissed off!!!!!!
> 
> By the way I am sure her contract that only last 2 months states the no affair policy also. That is up to the company as to wether or not she will last 2 months.


I told him I am not prepared to write a letter. I did put an apology on the company webiste for about 10 minutes (would be about 4am their time). I told my husband I had done this and he told me immediately to remove it which I did. 

He has stated that he is very sorry for the affair. But hs has also stated that he has not been happy our entire marriage. 16 years! He wants me to have sex 4 times a week at least, and for me to take the lead. Sex, love, marriage in that order he has said.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why are you letting him tell you what to do here?!?! Come ON, the guy's a lying cheater. He doesn't get to call the shots!!!

Has he agreed to no contact with her? It seems not.

Don't even talk to him any more. Tell him to f off and go dark. Remove his crap from the house and put it outside for him to find whenever he gets back home. What nerve!!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

itskaren said:


> he has not been happy our entire marriage. 16 years! He wants me to have sex 4 times a week at least, and for me to take the lead. Sex, love, marriage in that order he has said.


You're not letting him get away with this, are you? He's blameshifting. More crap.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So typical of the WS...try and make the BS feel like she is to blame for her H having to go out and help some poor woman in a sexless marriage.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

itskaren said:


> Apparrently the other woman is separate and has been in a sexless marriage all her married life so my husband told me.
> 
> I just can't think straight anymore.
> 
> Thanks for all you wishes . I really appreciate them. Is it me or does everyone else seem happy? Walking around the lovely Bath today in Somerset everyone is smiling!! Stop it please I am depressed and no one knows! x


Bless her heart, she's been in a sexless marriage. Thats her problem and she needs to find someone to fill her needs that is NOT married. As I get older and see how rotten the real world is I dont feel so bad for not liking people. 

Its hard to be around happy people when you're hurting inside....chin up....your days will get better (sooner or later)


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I told him I am not prepared to write a letter. I did put an apology on the company webiste for about 10 minutes (would be about 4am their time). I told my husband I had done this and he told me immediately to remove it which I did.
> 
> He has stated that he is very sorry for the affair. But hs has also stated that he has not been happy our entire marriage. 16 years! He wants me to have sex 4 times a week at least, and for me to take the lead. Sex, love, marriage in that order he has said.


If my wife had told me this, she would have found herself standing on three street within 10 minutes.

At least she pretended to love me and like our sex life (not sure if it's genuine at this moment).

I think you need to smash him out of his delusions about your marriage.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

I think, in light of this thread, it's time to update all my passwords, email and otherwise.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

His head is so far up, it's a miracle he can breathe. This is not your fault, not even a little bit! He's had a year to completely rewrite your history together to make you the big bad wife, and he is justified in cheating. It's utter and complete bull****! Smack him hard with a dose of reality, file for divorce, kick him out. Be proud for standing up for yourself, and defending your marriage against the selfish *****!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Maybe he isn't happy. You might be a drunken shrew. I don't know. But instead of getting help about all this or divorcing you, he decided to dip his nib in company ink. Ink stains.

No I don't believe that about you, but it's irrelevant. I guess he thought it was a happiness supplement or some such.

He had you take it down so he could rug sweep.

Think carefully what you want to do next. I don't care if you consult with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> His head is so far up, it's a miracle he can breathe. This is not your fault, not even a little bit! He's had a year to completely rewrite your history together to make you the big bad wife, and he is justified in cheating. It's utter and complete bull****! Smack him hard with a dose of reality, file for divorce, kick him out. Be proud for standing up for yourself, and defending your marriage against the selfish *****!


If she kicks him out, how is that defending her marriage? Now it's totally appropriate to punish offenders of your property...within the law.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks for your comments. I feel so down today. We are supposed to be having a great time on holiday with family. I just can't bear to go out the house I look so awful from crying. 

I need to think of my boys first. They did not want or ask for this (and I know neither did I). However, I HAVE to be practical. We need a home for now. We do need to sell it and perhaps get a smaller, or manageable home. 

I just don't think I am ever going to recover from this so I need to think about the future. Everything is such a blur at the moment I haven't slept for so long I don't know what is reality or fantasy!

I haven't seen him since the discovery of the affair and won't until another 10 days or so. Just why are the days and nights so long?

:-(((


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> I he has asked me to write a grovelling apology and state that I have been mistaken and that no affair had taken place.


A house is just a house. You can get another. Once you get a cheating husband, if you don't stand up to him, you'll have a serial cheater on your hands. Is that what you want to teach your kids?

Do NOT write that letter. Tell him instead what HE can do to make up for his CHEATING.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

JCD said:


> Maybe he isn't happy. You might be a drunken shrew. I don't know. But instead of getting help about all this or divorcing you, he decided to dip his nib in company ink. Ink stains.
> 
> No I don't believe that about you, but it's irrelevant. I guess he thought it was a happiness supplement or some such.
> 
> ...


I hardly ever drink. I just got drunk when I uncovered the emails of the affair that I had no idea whahsoever. I honestly just did not know what to do. I have never felt pain like it. I am sure if someone shot me the pain would have been less.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> He wants me to have sex 4 times a week at least, and for me to take the lead. Sex, love, marriage in that order he has said.


Sounds like it's time to shake up the marriage and turn it back into an EQUAL arrangement, if he wants to get to stay married.

Now's the time: H, I MAY forgive you and let you stay married to me, providing you:

give me all your passwords
let me know where you are so that I can verify
write a No Contact letter to OW that I will approve and send myself
arrange for and ATTEND MC with me for at least the next 6 months
If you're not interested in that, I'll go get a lawyer.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

JCD said:


> If she kicks him out, how is that defending her marriage? Now it's totally appropriate to punish offenders of your property...within the law.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Personally, I think kicking the cheater to the friend's couch for a week or two is an excellent way to get them to wake up and realize (1) what they're taking for granted and (2) that their spouse will no longer be the patsy they're used to.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

turnera said:


> Personally, I think kicking the cheater to the friend's couch for a week or two is an excellent way to get them to wake up and realize (1) what they're taking for granted and (2) that their spouse will no longer be the patsy they're used to.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

JCD said:


> If she kicks him out, how is that defending her marriage? Now it's totally appropriate to punish offenders of your property...within the law.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes you need to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Does it sound to you like this guy has any regret about having an affair? It sounds to me more like he regrets getting caught. He sounds deep in the fog. He can't really be niced out of it. He needs an intervention, a bit of shock and awe, in my opinion. Dash his image of the marriage, the image of his spouse as a willing doormat, unworthy of respect. He hads't got a clue how much damage he has done, of the gravity of his betrayal. I think he needs some harsh consequences to upset his thought patterns, so he has a chance to think about what is truly important to him.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

itskaren said:


> Thanks for your comments. I feel so down today. We are supposed to be having a great time on holiday with family. I just can't bear to go out the house I look so awful from crying.
> 
> I need to think of my boys first. They did not want or ask for this (and I know neither did I). However, I HAVE to be practical. We need a home for now. We do need to sell it and perhaps get a smaller, or manageable home.
> 
> ...


I know it seems hopeless now. You are confused, you're on an emotional rollercoaster, cycling through a bunch of emotions, none of them good. You are not crazy. You aren't alone either. It's hard to believe, but eventually things will get better. You can be happy again, who knows exactly how long that will take, or exactly what your life will look like, but it will happen. Believe that. You've got a rough bit of road ahead of you, but you're stronger than you ever imagined. You will be able to get through this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't be making any life-changing decisions right now. Read some books about what you're going through, like Surviving An Affair, so you will know what steps to take.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Getting Past the Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal, and Move On -- Together or Apart:Amazon:Books


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you talked to the OW husband? The two of you need to share notes about the past and share info going forward,

Your husband demands are the words of done one without remorse who thinks they can control the situation. Which my gut says will include a plan by him to pick up the affair again after a quiet period,


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> Sometimes you need to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Does it sound to you like this guy has any regret about having an affair? It sounds to me more like he regrets getting caught. He sounds deep in the fog. He can't really be niced out of it. He needs an intervention, a bit of shock and awe, in my opinion. Dash his image of the marriage, the image of his spouse as a willing doormat, unworthy of respect. He hads't got a clue how much damage he has done, of the gravity of his betrayal. I think he needs some harsh consequences to upset his thought patterns, so he has a chance to think about what is truly important to him.


I was making a wry point that divorcing his butt is the opposite of defending her marriage. Since I had the sense she was done with him (incorrectly it seems), there seemed little left to 'defend'.

But it ain't over yet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

JCD said:


> I was making a wry point that divorcing his butt is the opposite of defending her marriage. Since I had the sense she was done with him (incorrectly it seems), there seemed little left to 'defend'.
> 
> But it ain't over yet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah, I didn't pick that up from your post. In my experience you can reach way, way down into the sewer and pull a marriage that was gone back, and salvage the foundation, and rebuild something worthwhile again. It isn't easy, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it can be worth it, esp. if there are kids involved.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

JCD said:


> I was making a wry point that divorcing his butt is the opposite of defending her marriage. Since I had the sense she was done with him (incorrectly it seems), there seemed little left to 'defend'.
> 
> But it ain't over yet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lots of people survive being kicked out; goes back for centuries, I'd wager.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> Have you talked to the OW husband? The two of you need to share notes about the past and share info going forward,
> 
> Your husband demands are the words of done one without remorse who thinks they can control the situation. Which my gut says will include a plan by him to pick up the affair again after a quiet period,


Itskaren

I am so sorry that you are going through all this on what should be a happy family holiday with your boys. Regarding Shaggy's post above, I would be seriously thinking about exposing the affair to the OW's husband/boyfriend/family just to make it more difficult for them to continue the affair in your absense. 

Meanwhile, I recommend that you develop a "mantra" to help you get through this awful situation you find yourself in. For example, if you find yourself weepy/fighting the urge to burst into tears at the drop of a hat, just as soon as the feeling starts keep repeating to yourself "I *am *strong and I *am *coping without tears". Keep on saying this to yourself until the feeling subsides. 

You can do this when you are in company and when alone. I know it sound simplistic and silly but I know it's helped me deal with stuff in the past. It can't do any harm so please please be good to yourself and give it a try.


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## frank29 (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi I just hate reading story's like this i can feel all that pain and hurt that all of us on here have suffered along the way but life goes on and you have to live it so think kids first you next and your H 5 miles down the road but also if you look on here there are you will find case s of repair to the marriage/relationship i read that it is hard work it depends on how much you want it and your marriage if you feel that it is not salvageable get a D and get a new man in your life or not what ever you feel is right for you and the little ones so until you can go back to Aus try and enjoy your holiday difficult i know but you must try if you are in London go and see a few shows it might take your mind off things for a while


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

JCD said:


> I liked it but that's strong words in this economy. I've had two neighbors unemployed for months.
> 
> She isn't thinking of him. She has mouths to feed and kids don't care who dad is humping if they are hungry.
> 
> Yes, he put them there. They will still be hungry.


Ok , I really hate cheaters but OP's actions doesn't seem to be very practical for this situation , no matter how badly she wanted to make her H suffer the consequences and even if she wanted to dump her cheating H . 


It sounds so simple , right ? he will quickly find another job once he is terminated from his current company , & new company will be so willingly to hire him even after doing the background check & finding that he was terminated because of his immoral behaviour . HR or his managers will never lie to give good refrence for an employee who was terminated . Now I know he did wrong & its a consequence of his actions but OP's making sure that his carrear is affected is really too much although OP does have the right to vengeance theoritically .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Karen, I am so sorry you had you holiday ruined by finding out your husband is a callous cheater.

Here's a resource you might find helpful FindLaw Australia I hope you don't need it, but it is there for you if you do.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I told him I am not prepared to write a letter. I did put an apology on the company webiste for about 10 minutes (would be about 4am their time). I told my husband I had done this and he told me immediately to remove it which I did.
> 
> He has stated that he is very sorry for the affair. But hs has also stated that he has not been happy our entire marriage. 16 years! He wants me to have sex 4 times a week at least, and for me to take the lead. Sex, love, marriage in that order he has said.


Keep strong and do not write the letter. Also, he does not get to dictate the terms of the marriage at this point. The truth is that he turned to the arms of another instead of making sure that his marriage was in a good place. Sometimes sex 4x a week is not doable. Sickness, kids and lack of sleep get in the way. It may be a blessing that you are on vacation and not with him at the moment. Please take time to do as much research as you can. Continue to ask us questions. We can give you the strength that you need before you face him.

I also have 3 kids and that is one of the main reasons he got another chance. One of the others is that he chose to stay and work on the marriage on his own.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

update ..
Well he has not lost his job (phew) at least the mortgage can be paid.

He is very remorseful and wants us to be together to try again. I have been willing to as I will never love anyone like I love my husband. However, today I am feeling that I just cannot ever forgive him or trust him ever. So just what is the point of even trying? 

I will never get over the hurt that he has caused me. I can hardly put one foot infront of the other. I just want the pain to end.

I so want to forgive him for this. Perhaps I will one day. Who knows. Tomorrow I may feel differently. How can someone you love the most in this world dish out so much pain? If I had one suspision then at least the thought would have been there. But this has just hit me like a ton of bricks. No suspisions whatsoever before.

Just feeling sorry for myself today ;-(((


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Take it one day at a tme I know it's hard but you did the right thing and scared him straight!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

itskaren said:


> update ..
> Well he has not lost his job (phew) at least the mortgage can be paid.
> 
> He is very remorseful and wants us to be together to try again. I have been willing to as I will never love anyone like I love my husband. However, today I am feeling that I just cannot ever forgive him or trust him ever. So just what is the point of even trying?
> ...


I feel for you. I wish I could say something to ease your sorrow, but I can't except that you are definitely not alone with this. What you feel is normal, prepare for a long ride on an emotional rollercoaster.

If you think you will work with him to get through this, you should read up on how to start in the newbie thread - lots of advice to extract.

Take care, be strong for your self.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's the drill, if you DO take him back. Immediately:
He gives you the passwords to all his electronics - if you ever find he changed one, he's gone.
He hands you his electronics without hesitation ANY time you ask, even at 3 in the morning; if he refuses, he's gone.
He writes OW a NC letter that YOU approve and send yourself; if he refuses, he's gone.
He finds and schedules a MC for the two of you and he contines to go as long as you need him to; if he stops, he's gone.
He informs you of his whereabouts every day for as long as you need (probably at least a couple months), so you can verify he isn't lying.
He informs you IMMEDIATELY if she contacts him, and you TOGETHER decide to respond or ignore.
He doesn't delete anything from his phone or computer without showing you first; if you find he is, he's gone.

If you guys are rich, you may want to include a post-nup agreement so that if he cheats again, he walks away without anything.
If he has a problem with lying, you may want to insist on him taking a polygraph so you can see if this is a one-time thing.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

How are you ging to manage the fact he will go everyday to work and see her, probably talk to her (you can't know for sure)...
He needs to start job hunting yesterday.
You also need to find MOW's BH to inform him.

I'm sorry you are hurting. It's all so fresh. It's a huge trauma you are barely reacting to. The pain is palpable, physical. Please get help, see a doctor. Drop the booze, be sure to drink plenty of water, that you eat properly, force you to eat well or take some replacements. Try to sleep all you can. 

If your husband comply with your demands you have all the time to prepare, protect your self and make whatever decision you have to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, I forgot they work together. That has to stop, too. DEMAND it. Now, while you have the most power, while he is still willing to leap tall buildings to please you.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

How did he avoid losing his job?

Are you two physically together or on separate continents?

A signed and notarized letter admitting his infidelity might be good.

Demand he look for another job (which will be hard) but absolutely force him to inform the OWH detailing a timeline of their infidelity. He might not be able to get another job quickly, but you can make resuming the relationship impossible
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

OW is a contractor right? She can be replaced by her company and moved elsewhere. Unless they are very specialized they can and are often replaced by their home company. This needs to be pressed immediately. Your husband should know this and be pressing for it. 

His remorse may or may not be genuine. His guilt probably is, but his allegiance to you is questionable at best for the moment. Work on composing yourself. Get yourself to a competent counselor. 

Watch the kids too, they've probably noticed that mommy is sad. They may need counseling too. In the meantime, think of all the things you will want to or need to know about the affair. It may be important to you, it should be important to you. Write them down. Edit them and add other questions. Use that as a basis for having an honest face to face conversation with your husband. 

Accept NO blame whatsoever. None at all. If he starts badgering you that you don't trust him. Tell him the conversation is about him not you. When you get honest answers you'll think about what he needs to know about your feelings. But don't hold back your disdain for his actions. 

Don't appear needy or in a hurry to put things right. It's his job. And its his job to figure out how. Because he knows why he should and so do you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

A few things to add here, first, no one is truly irreplaceable, except your children. It sounds harsh but the are untold millions of men on the planet as good, and often better than your husband. You're kidding yourself to think otherwise. Have you never been through a 'bad break up' in your life?

Can you ever get over the hurt? It seems impossible now, but yes, you can. You are far stronger than you think. It will take time though.

Can you ever forgive him? Again, the answer is yes, you are capable of amazing things. The thing here is, forgiving him is for you, and you alone. You will do it or not on your own schedule, when you are ready, and not before, no matter what you say. (I mean you might say it to him before you are really ready, but you'll know when you really mean it).

Can your marriage survive, and thrive in light of this. Yes, it is possible. It depends on how the two of you move forward. You both have to give it a chance, through some very rough times ahead. It can seem impossible one day, and simple the next, then back to impossible again. If you really want it to work, be prepared to stick it out through those down times.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

SadandAngry gave you good advise in the post above.

*You husband is replaceable he is not your whole life!*

Right now you need to do everything to build you up. Forget about helping him with his life unless you helping him will help you. You have one HUGE priority that is ahead of your husband. That priority is you and your children.

After you build yourself up a good bit then you can help your husband if that is what you want. At this point you seem that you are not strong enough to even be much help to your children. You are totally devastated and that is why you need to be totally focused on YOU!

If your husband is really sorry then he can figure out how he is going to make things better for you and himself. He figured out all by himself how to screw that OW so now he can figure out how to work on making you and him better. That is not your job; your job is you and yoru children.

*It is sad but true that the best thing that you can do for yourself, your children, and your marriage is for you to become as close to be autonomous and self- reliant as you can.* You cannot afford to put so much of your whole life into a person that has proven to you that he will betray you.

Millions of women have built themselves up and made a good life for themselves with and without their adulterous husband. And SO CAN YOU!


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

JCD said:


> How did he avoid losing his job?
> 
> Are you two physically together or on separate continents?
> 
> ...


I have been on holiday with my children and that's when I found out. My husband is in Australia where we live. I have got 8 days to go until I go home. Just visiting family etc.

He is really sorry .. but states that he does not feel guilty? Not really sure what that means. We have been communication via Skype since all this happened which is difficult.

He says he is looking for another job but not too many around at the moment. He has said to me when the job was offered to her at the company he told her 'under no circumstances can we continue this affair'' Both had agreed. Then he told me they slept together once since being there? 6 times in total approximate! Just don't understand I am so confused.

He says that he has been sad and loney for years with me. I have been busy working 4-5 nights a week and running tow children to school, sport etc cooking, cleaning etc then out to work and so the cycle continues.

I just don't understand when he says that he is sorry won't happen again etc and yet he does not feel guilty? have regrets? he said he only regrets what his life has become .. whatever that means.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> OW is a contractor right? She can be replaced by her company and moved elsewhere. Unless they are very specialized they can and are often replaced by their home company. This needs to be pressed immediately. Your husband should know this and be pressing for it.
> 
> His remorse may or may not be genuine. His guilt probably is, but his allegiance to you is questionable at best for the moment. Work on composing yourself. Get yourself to a competent counselor.
> 
> ...


Her contract runs out in Feb ... husband said he is trying to end the contract asap.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

He is still deep in the affair fog then. He is like a drug addict, the drug is dopamine, he gets his fix from seeing the ow. He will lie like a sidewalk, swear on his children while looking you right in the face and dishing out the biggest lies he has ever told. You can't trust a single word out if his mouth right now. Trust only what he does, even then remain suspicious, and verify it yourself, independently of him. Keep up your vigilance until his actions are consistently trustworthy, his words match, and his feelings seem appropriate. 
When you get home, you're going to need to keylog the computer, spyware his phone, may need to look into the policies at work to get rid of the OW. You will need to talk to OWH to expose her to him. Have proof with you. Be prepared to end your marriage if you want to save it. My wife had no regrets early on, no guilt at the time. That changed as the affair got distant, and she got over the addiction. No contact is an important part of beating the addiction component.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you talked to the OWH? This is essential to help you truly end this affair.

He's not guilty? Then why won't he continue cheating?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

SadandAngry said:


> He is still deep in the affair fog then. He is like a drug addict, the drug is dopamine, he gets his fix from seeing the ow. He will lie like a sidewalk, swear on his children while looking you right in the face and dishing out the biggest lies he has ever told. You can't trust a single word out if his mouth right now. Trust only what he does, even then remain suspicious, and verify it yourself, independently of him. Keep up your vigilance until his actions are consistently trustworthy, his words match, and his feelings seem appropriate.
> When you get home, you're going to need to keylog the computer, spyware his phone, may need to look into the policies at work to get rid of the OW. You will need to talk to OWH to expose her to him. Have proof with you. Be prepared to end your marriage if you want to save it. My wife had no regrets early on, no guilt at the time. That changed as the affair got distant, and she got over the addiction. No contact is an important part of beating the addiction component.


I have no power to get rid of her. It is not up to me. I cannot be in a marriage where I have to check on his every move.. on the other hand I just don't trust him. I a understand she is separated anyway. I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Have you talked to the OWH? This is essential to help you truly end this affair.
> 
> He's not guilty? Then why won't he continue cheating?


True ...


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Please, please tell her husband. You do not know for sure that he is an ex. It helps in ending the affair and you might be surprised to find out that he knew and did not tell you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I have no power to get rid of her. It is not up to me. I cannot be in a marriage where I have to check on his every move.. on the other hand I just don't trust him. I a understand she is separated anyway. I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?


You don't know what power you have for sure, you need to find out. I understand you need to be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot here, that's why exposing her to her husband is in your interest. 

As to her marital status, I assume you know only what your husband told you. As I pointed out, you cannot trust anything he says that you can't verify yourself. As to causing him (the betrayed husband) pain, you aren't the one who decided to step out and [email protected]%k somebody else, she did, your husband did. You had no input into that. They caused this, not you. Sharing information does not cause pain. If the situation were reversed, would you want to be kept in the dark? Would you not want to be able to make informed choices for yourself?

There are several very good reasons to expose. It's the right thing to do. It puts another pair of eyes on the APs to keep them honest. It helps destroy the fantasy, makes life real for them. It can get the APs to turn on each other, further destroying the fantasy. The husband might force the wife to quit, solving one of your problems for you.

Right now, and for the next little while, you are in a marriage where you do have to check up on everymove. Your addict husband is not trustworthy right now. He has proven, and continues to prove it with a lack of remorse. Placing any trust in his ability to save your marriage in his current state is foolhardy.

Perhaps this is an absolute deal breaker for you. It is for some, and in that case, you ought to be consulting a lawyer. Not a bad idea in any case, knowledge is power, and it's good to know what your options are.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

itskaren said:


> I have no power to get rid of her. It is not up to me. I cannot be in a marriage where I have to check on his every move.. on the other hand I just don't trust him. I a understand she is separated anyway. I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?


Hiding your head in the sand isn't going to get your marraige back on track & it sure won't get your husband out of his fog.
I think you're afraid to tell the OWH because you're afraid to piss off your husband.
Can you not see how absolutely insane that is?
It seems like you're just NOT getting what people are posting in this thread, you seem to think your husband's affair is somehow different from all the others.
Nope, it's absoluely no different for any other cheater's affair.
Go back & re-read the advice people have given you, apply the advice to your situation & then see how much difference it makes.

No matter what BS excuse your husband gives you for why he had an affair, it DOES NOT matter, only he is responsbile for the choice he made to cheat.
No one "made" him do it, not your career, not taking care of your kids, NOTHING but his selfish agenda made him cheat.


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## Love2326 (Oct 31, 2012)

I actually think you did a good thing. Nice job! You put him smack dab in the middle of all this. You probably regret posting on the company's website, but let's be honest, it forced him to deal with one thing: accountability. You are holding him accountable. And now so will all of his coworkers. Do not, for one second, take ANY blame for doing anything wrong. Even if you were in the "fog" of it. You did whatever you did BECAUSE of HIS actions. You did NOTHING wrong. 

I wouldn't do anything about the post. At the most, perhaps call his boss and apologize for posting, but as someone said above, do NOT apologize for the content. Leave it up there for all the world to see. Your post puts your H and the OW in a very tough bind. Good for them. They both deserve it. :smthumbup:

Now for the house: look for someplace new. He will have to find a hotel or something. Kick him out. Tough love. He needs to understand that these horrible things that are happening to him are the consequences of his infidelity and selfish actions. So he needs to live in hell for awhile. It will be rough for you too... but harder for him. Make him suffer, make him stand and face the exit door to your marriage. Make him stand there for a looooong time. Better to deal with this now than have it reoccur later. Be tough. Tell him you will, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES.. TOLERATE this kind of behavior. Assert yourself and your boundaries. Do NOT waiver, as hard as it may be. Stand up for yourself. Put him through hell. That just might cause him to realize what his actions will cause. he needs to figure this one out on his own.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By itiskaren
> I have no power to get rid of her. It is not up to me. I cannot be in a marriage where I have to check on his every move.. on the other hand I just don't trust him. I a understand she is separated anyway. I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

itskaren said:


> He is really sorry .. but states that he does not feel guilty? Not really sure what that means. We have been communication via Skype since all this happened which is difficult.


It means he sorry you get hurt ("I'm not Hitler" defense, I'm not a sadistic sociopath, It wasn't never supposed to be found) but I deserved it. You are basicaly to blame. You had it coming.
It means he's not an unempathetic monster BUT he's not remorseful at all. He doesn't reject the affair itself. He's sorry to be caught. No remorse = no chance of rebuilding. I'm sorry to say it.
He still values self gratification over integrity, honesty, responsability. He abandoned his core values with no shame.
This is so fresh, he's foggie as hell, he had to racionalize it the moment he considered it, the moment he crossed the boundaires in his head, he solidified it when the external boundaires were ignored for good. It's difficul to un-learn the justifications.
Unless it's a complete dealbreaker and asuming he abides by the rules you can give him to snap of the fog. 



> I just don't understand when he says that he is sorry won't happen again etc and yet he does not feel guilty? have regrets? he said he only regrets what his life has become .. whatever that means.


Don't know whether it's complete blameshifting (uou forced him) or blamesharing (he admit he also put himself in that "unhappy" position). The second phrase can be translated both with "owning his sh!t" (I never should have done it, I regret not adressing the issues before cheating) or that he's so deep in the fog he almost slip he should had do it earlier to make him happy.The fact is he sees the cheatnig as a perfectly natural consequence of his personal unhappiness, to the state of the marriage (which likely to all to blame).


> He says that he has been sad and loney for years with me. I have been busy working 4-5 nights a week and running tow children to school, sport etc cooking, cleaning etc then out to work and so the cycle continues.


Partitaly story rewritting (unhappy fore years), maybe really regret living in autopilot, like a zombie for a while. Surely exagerating. Probably it's simply old plain selfishness: life become boring, mundane, I chose cheap trills to feel alive. I deserved it.

At this moment many (most, all?) of what your WH has to say is fog induced, a way to defend himself. He has been doing it for a while and it will take a while do get rid of the excuses he sold himself. He must do it. Hence the need to read books, going IC, MC...
It's futile argue, convince, reason with him when he spill all this kind of nonsense: blameshifting, demonizing the partner, story rewritting... the cheaters' handbook.

Tell him whether you deserved also some romance, new excitments, new trill. Tell him whether you should had thought in this solution yourlsef. How silly of you.

For now watch the actions, rather than paying attention to his words. Read about the fog, pay attention for signs of remorse (or lack of it).

I'm sorry friend. Take care.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Great post, Acabado


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Gee, this is new standard of Blame Shifting. I find it very hard to believe that there are no more jobs in your part of the world.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?


You're kidding, right? Would YOU want her husband to tell YOU if he was the one who knew and you didn't?

Or would you rather spend the next 10 years oblivious to them cheating while they carry on under your nose?

Tell him!


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## SparklyShoes (Sep 9, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


Remains said:


> Affairs happen due to poor boundaries and a lack of morals. Don't you dares take any blame for his affair!
> 
> If he was unhappy he should have told you he was, if he was slipping in the marriage he should have opened up, if he wanted to f*ck other women he should have never got married, or divorced you in order to go do what he likes.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## SparklyShoes (Sep 9, 2012)

Why is this ok with you? your sorry you found out? you don't want to hurt others? What about the hurt that has been caused to you? and your family? HE is the one in the wrong!!! HE is the one screwing another woman!!! YOU are the one about to let him walk all over you. What he did was NOT OK!!!! DONT MAKE EXCISES FOR HIM!! There are plenty of men out there in far worse relationships than him that stick by their wives and don't go screwing other woman!! If it was me I'd be forward the emails to his company, I'd be gone and he could clean up his own mess!!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Just wondering how things stand at this point? Im sure by now you have made it back and been able to see your WH face to face.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

LetDownNTX said:


> Just wondering how things stand at this point? Im sure by now you have made it back and been able to see your WH face to face.


HI thanks for asking...

I have been back for 10 days now. He is very remorseful. I just don't know where we go from here. I cannot forgive him. Maybe I will one day.

He has given me all his passwords to emails etc if I need them. I am just now the same person what I was a month ago. My 14 year old is having counselling at school as he is havig difficulity coping.

I just don't know. I am still very much lost.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Time.

And don't underestimate the BS fog too. You are in it. Read advice given here. It is given for a reason. If you are to save your marriage, your WH has to feel real consequences. Pavlov's dogs. If he doesn't then you run the real risk of either not killing the affair or him slipping into a new one in time. Seeing your hurt is not a consequence. 

Please read other threads on here too that have vague similarities to you and your story. Read how they all, without exception, follow the same pattern. You need to be strong and run him down like a freight train so he can peel himself back up again, dust himself off, and vow never to stand on the tracks again. Do it to save your marriage.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Oh heck, sell the house and take all the assets from it.
You can have a life where you don't have to makes choices on some guy keeping his pants zipped up or your lips zipped up.
You'll lose all your self respect if you lie to line your pockets.
Think about what you're teaching that kid of yours.
I would have done the same thing, no mercy!
Like anyone's going to believe it's not true. Chances are, everybody knew already. The company just wants to cover itself so it can keep two valuable employees and not have to deal with letting them go and all the legal cr*p they'll have to go through with that kind of mess. If they punish them, now that everyone knows about it, it's going to set a precedent for all the other couples that are involved who work for the company. Get a lawyer and start dealing with the company's legal department. Get a settlement, get all the assets from the marriage, and go have a new life where you know nobody's going to undermine it for you.

Keep this in mind: if it's all true, it's not slander!
I had to deal with my ex not paying child support, had my Congressman deal with the legal department for the company he worked for. No problem. Got ALL of the back child support and a check directly from the company every week for the rest of his career there. Even when the company was bought, still got a check from the new company. You'll be small potatoes for the company compared to losing a couple of employees at that level. So go ahead and whine, and do it loudly, and legally.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...did he still expect you to apologize to his company?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

turnera said:


> So...did he still expect you to apologize to his company?


Yes .. but I haven't.


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## jmb123 (Nov 9, 2012)

Do not apologize;;;;;he is kind of blackmailing you and wants you to compromise;;;I know this my EX was like this;;;;he made me compromise and he was never remorseful;;;;he even use to tell me on my face how my position was(all because I wanted to be with him and thought things would chnage);;;

Today I have accpeted the divorce,come out of my fear and let him finally not do any crap to me;;;;;;;;Mind you I was so emotionally weak even afetr knowing his dirty deeds and mistreatment towards me,I was taking it all;;;;;But when I came out ,and he still remained the B******* that he is,I am ready to take him on;;;;;For now I have asked him to keep away and am ready for teh divorce;;;;no more dirty drama from his side;;;;I have no kids involved else would have sold that man and beaten him in crowd;;;;;

Never apologoze to the company;;;do not fall for his manipulations;;;he is not remosrseful;;;he is playing with you;;;when all dies down that si you apologize,he will emerge the good man in office and society and the OW will still be evry much in the picture;;;;He is a scumbag, treat him the worst way you can;;;get child alimony and have the spirit to start a new life without that cheating man;;;;;;;You deserve someone who love you unconditionally and your chuld needs a father who is not a cheat and who has respect for his mother;;;;;;

You are in my prayers but you shall have to stand for yourself;;;;All he has is money and a dead soul;;;;;;

And he is not going to loose his job,the way his company people are not doing anything to him;;;;;;;Get yourself together,leave that man;;;;;

Hugs and love...


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm glad you did this, these lying, cheating bastards need to learn we will no longer tolerate their crap. 
He did not take your feelings into consideration, or the feelings of your children and the family he was destroying. 
Don't take his feeling into consideration either.


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## jmb123 (Nov 9, 2012)

I read about your son,I feel sorry for him!!!You be the strong one,....

When he sees you straong and coping things in a proper manner, things will be differnet;;;I eman tos ay that first of all do not accept that 'so-called-remorseful' man ;;;;;he is not remosrseful;;;all because you took the first step so right as to report to his company,he has the audacity to act so much now;;;;;;;

I know you want to believe that he is remorseful ,given that he ahs given you all the passwords etc,,,,but this is all a play for you to seek apology from the office;;;;;Never apologize;;;;

He is not your concern now, you and your son are;;;think about teh financial aspect;;;;and the mental hea;th of your child;;;;;;;;;be strong at home and start a healthy life with the 14 year old;;;


also if that person , is really remorseful, he can come after you till the time you are willing to forgive him;;;they key now is not to fall for him;;;;I have seen teary eyed man in my EX,who behvaed and was falsely remorseful so that I do not expose him;;;;


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> So...did he still expect you to apologize to his company?


I think the deal should be that first he must with his wife present call the OWH and appologize to him for having an affair with his wife.


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## jmb123 (Nov 9, 2012)

I agrre that he should apologize in front of you to the OW husband but you should be sure that he is really her husband and not some fake person who they pose as the OW H;;;;;they might do it;;;;

But any manner I do feel you have to apologize in any manner for his deciet and life altering actions;;;;take control of your life;;


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> Yes .. but I haven't.


I'm sorry, but don't you see a problem with this? You're back with a cheater who is still wanting YOU to make something up to HIM?

He should be on his knees BEGGING you to forgive him and asking you how he can make things up to you.

He has no remorse. He just got caught.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

itskaren said:


> I have no power to get rid of her. It is not up to me. I cannot be in a marriage where I have to check on his every move.. on the other hand I just don't trust him. I a understand she is separated anyway. I have no desire to tell her husband even if I knew him. Why cause more pain to an innocent party?


I was married to a man who cheated for years. Other knew that he cheated. They did not tell me. I suppose they had all kinds of excuses.. like it was not their business, why cause pain to an innocent party, yada yada yada.

It would have been a lot kinder to me if someone had told me and given me details. I did not find out about how many people knew about this affairs until after I divorced him. Then people started to make comments to me about him cheated. 

I cut those people out of my life. They are accessories to the cheating.

If she is still married, you would be doing her husband a favor.. perhaps setting him free from a cheating spouse. NO one deserved to be cheated on and kept in the dark.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband told you that he's been lonely married to you for years.

How often before the affair did he tell you about this?


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## Love2326 (Oct 31, 2012)

Remains is right. Better to stand at the doorway of divorce now for a little bit longer, instead of finding yourself right back in the same place in 1 year. Linger here for a bit. Let him feel the pain. Let him believe that he is hanging by a thread.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

itskaren said:


> Yes .. but I haven't.


Maybe he is playing nice until you apologize to his comapny..What about the OW's husband ?


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I was married to a man who cheated for years. Other knew that he cheated. They did not tell me. I suppose they had all kinds of excuses.. like it was not their business, why cause pain to an innocent party, yada yada yada.
> 
> It would have been a lot kinder to me if someone had told me and given me details. I did not find out about how many people knew about this affairs until after I divorced him. Then people started to make comments to me about him cheated.
> 
> ...


I know nothing about her whatsoever. My husband has told me she is separated and that's it. I understand what you are saying. I really do.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband told you that he's been lonely married to you for years.
> 
> How often before the affair did he tell you about this?


I know. He only told me after I found out about the affair. ;-(


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Maybe he is playing nice until you apologize to his comapny..What about the OW's husband ?


I just don't know anything about the OW husband. Nothing at all. I don't even know where the OW lives. My husband told me ''somewhere near the city''. He obviously does not want me to find out!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> I just don't know anything about the OW husband. Nothing at all. I don't even know where the OW lives. My husband told me ''somewhere near the city''. *He obviously does not want me to find out!*


 karen, you just aren't understanding how infidelity is supposed to work.

We aren't trying to beat you up. Just to show you how a successul reconciliation should work - so YOU can have the marriage you deserve.

And we are telling you from experience that you HAVE to take a harder line than this. 

He isn't remorseful. If he isn't remorseful, you have taught him - by getting back together - that he now has YOUR PERMISSION to cheat again.

This is in YOUR CONTROL, karen. YOU have the control to dictate what YOU require to be WILLING to LET him stay married to you. And that involves him telling you EVERYTHING - including the OW's information. Giving you 100% access to all his phone/computer/tablet/everything else. Telling you EVERYTHING you want to know. And, given who he is, taking a polygraph and signing a post-nup agreement.

Why aren't you standing up for yourself?


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## determined_man (Nov 21, 2012)

itskaren said:


> update ..
> Well he has not lost his job (phew) at least the mortgage can be paid.
> 
> He is very remorseful and wants us to be together to try again. I have been willing to as I will never love anyone like I love my husband. However, today I am feeling that I just cannot ever forgive him or trust him ever. So just what is the point of even trying?
> ...


This statement is so true! It's the shock that hurts so much! It took months for the initial shock to wear off for me. I will tell you this though, my wife and I are doing much better. Each situation is different but I can see a light now at the end of this tunnel. Hang in there, no matter what happens!


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## determined_man (Nov 21, 2012)

itskaren said:


> My 14 year old is having counselling at school as he is havig difficulity coping.


Ask him if he feels any remorse now?


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## determined_man (Nov 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> karen, you just aren't understanding how infidelity is supposed to work.
> 
> We aren't trying to beat you up. Just to show you how a successul reconciliation should work - so YOU can have the marriage you deserve.
> 
> ...


Amen to that!


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

turnera said:


> karen, you just aren't understanding how infidelity is supposed to work.
> 
> We aren't trying to beat you up. Just to show you how a successul reconciliation should work - so YOU can have the marriage you deserve.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate all of the advice given on here. I really do. I guess I am just a complete novice regarding all of this. I just don't know what to do for the best. 

Does it help knowing all the details regarding the affair or is it just easier not knowing. One minute I want to know all the details then next minute I don't want to know a thing ..

I hate the situation I am in. I did not want or ask for it.

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments. It feels great to be able to 'speak'to someone. xx


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Like I said, get an attorney. One who can deal with corporate issues and can play hardball, and who can also handle your marriage personally or with a colleague. The two issues, corporate stuff and the marriage, are separate issues, but need to be handled in tandem.

You don't have to talk to anyone at the company, you don't have to sign anything, you don't have to do anything. And insist that your husband pays your legal expenses. (You can have your attorney do this.)

Feel free to move out of the house and go to a hotel in the meantime, you don't have to be anywhere near the person who incited you to lose your wits.

I am NOT novice. I think your best bet is to get an attorney and dig your feet in and let the attorney do the talking and negotiating. You just go on with your life. Take care of yourself, seek counseling (records will be useful for litigation) make sure your child has counseling, move out to get some peace of mind, cease contact with person who caused you to lose your mind/impulse control, and carry on. Show them what you're made of. Better stuff than they are. They won't even see it coming, and that gives you the upper hand. Right now they think you're some crazed woman who can be scared and confused into submission, to play into their hands. Let them think what they will. Tell them you're too confused right now to do anything...and go behind their backs and get your own counsel. They won't know what hit them, they'll be totally unprepared for it. Meanwhile, they'll be asking you to do all kinds of things they shouldn't be asking you to do...which will show how crooked they are, they'll have no choice but to settle to avoid even more bad press.

Don't worry about biting the hand that feeds you. The paddock gate is open, honey!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

itskaren said:


> Does it help knowing all the details regarding the affair or is it just easier not knowing.


It doesn't matter what you KNOW. Ok?

It matters what he GIVES YOU.

If he isn't giving you everything you ask...HE IS USING YOU.

Do you want to be his recycle bin?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It matters what can be proved, or discovered, using legal inquisition. Anything he tells you, or stuff you find out, is just that. It only gains value for you in the hands of competent counsel.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

itskaren said:


> I know. He only told me after I found out about the affair. ;-(


Then I hope you take the opportunity to tell him that since he did not give you the respect of telling you that he was lonely and the chance to work on the relationship... he cannot even start to use that as an excuse for the affair.

He is at fault here in every way.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tell the kids that when they lose the house ING.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Karen; do you want to be with your husband and make it work? You sound like a woman who is deeply in love with her husband?

If this is true, you must make him understand that he made a HUGE mistake! At this point he has suffered absolutely no consequences for his bad choices, which means that chances of repetition are very high. You teach him that he can walk all over you, if you accept that he doesn't have to tell you anything about his affair or AP.

I know from very unpleasant experience how hard this stuff is, and no, you didn't ask for this. Unfortunately, you are the one who has to outline the path forward.

I wish you all the best.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Itskaren, what you need to realise here is that the advice you are given is from experience. Huge experience. And although all situations are different due to the personalities involved, all the situations are the same due to the circumstances. And affairs and the aftermath really do, I mean really really do, follow a script. They follow a path that is laid down in stone and concrete. There are 2 paths in the aftermath. 

1. That the wayward spouse is massively remorseful and does everything and anything in their power to fix the situation. 1a. They give all to their betrayed spouse and do all that is necessary to help them heal. They actively look for ways to help, ask what they can do, self analysis to discover why they behaved in such a way. 1b. The betrayed spouse cannot accept the betrayal and throws them out regardless. 1b.a. Divorce is the result. 1b.b. As a result of the huge remorse and desire to change, the betrayed allows for Reconciliation and allows the Wayward back in to their life. 

The result of 1. on either path a or b, when divorce does not happen, is a stronger marriage due to the remorse, due to the desire to fix, the seeking of answers and solutions.

2. The wayward spouse is not remorseful about having the affair, only about getting caught. They say sorry and that is it. Due to a lack of remorse, they don't desire to talk about it or give anything to the betrayed. They don't do anything to help the betrayed. They don't do anything to fix the marriage. They don't do anything to look inward to discover why or how they are broken enough to devastate and betray those who love them the most. The lack of remorse comes from either (a.) the continuation of the affair or (b.) that they really have fallen out of love and the affair was a cowardly way to end the relationship. Or (c.) that they don't care to deal with anything they have done to you, to their family, and wish to move on in whichever form that takes. c. is bury your head in the sand option. And I would suggest a lack of love, and so therefore a lack of remorse. 

If the answer is b. then the relationship would generally end on discovery. Though as it is such a cowardly action often it takes the BS to throw them out due to their lack of remorse as they are too cowardly still to just up and leave. This action of throwing them out can result in 1. and 1a. coming in to play once the realisation sets in of what they have given up and lost. Though not always. Sometimes the wayward just moves on.

So, 2. is the lack of remorse and no desire to fix from the Wayward, which is enabled by the Betrayed spouse and their desire to keep the marriage. But they are unable to put in place what is necessary to fix the marriage due to fear, fear of losing the marriage, and a lack of knowledge and experience. And yes, it is fully up to the Betrayed to fix the marriage on path 2 (unless the cheating spouse leaves) because the Wayward makes it clear they are not bothered. Here, the betrayed does not realise that due to the lack of remorse then the control of how the relationship continues is FULLY down to them. The Wayward has set their stall out and the make or break is FULLY with the betrayed. They (Wayward) explicitly say in their actions that they want to ignore what they have done. So, in order to move this relationship along to its natural conclusion it is completely up to the Betrayed now. By far the easiest way to move to this, the most painful of the processes, along is to move to 1b. and 1b.a. which is throwing them out and divorce. THIS is the quickest and most pain free way to get the result that will happen, regardless, if path 2 is taken by the Wayward. It will shock them into action if they really want the marriage by showing them what they will lose. Thus bring on path 1. It also has the 2 way effect of showing them that you will not tolerate this behaviour, and therefore they will think very very carefully before embarking on another affair. Or it will make them move out and allow the Betrayed spouse to move on with their life quicker. Either way, it forces the Wayward to make their decision...which at the end of the day is all we want. Yes? Either do what is necessary to fix, or get the hell out! Yes! 

So, path 2 goes like this:

2a. They get to carry on the affair and keep the marriage. 

Betrayed either continues to ask for remorse, contrition, truth etc and gets nothing but gaslighting, or Betrayed ignores the actions and buries their head with the cheating spouse.

2b. They (WS) exit the marriage and move on with or without the affair partner.

2c. They (WS) can also show a lack of remorse and display all those signs of 2. (above) and 2a.b. (see below) - manipulation tactics - because they don't want to tell the truth of what really happened. Giving Trickle Truth or no truth at all. This is a way to avoid dealing with reality, avoid dealing with themselves or their actions, and the result being that nothing gets resolved and therefore the risk of future affairs is ever present. It also makes it impossible for the Betrayed spouse to get over the affair due to the lies and lack of contrition. This is hell and not worth putting any effort in to get past. Anything, IMO, is better than this or variations of this, i.e. all this due to continuing the affair. 

This can only be ended by following 1b in order to get to 1 and 1a. Or to induce what is inevitable due to no desire for R, the separation and divorce path.

2a.a. The betrayed doesn't demand 1a. and doesn't act on 1b. 

Result: the affair continues WITH the marriage, or the end of the marriage happens with the wayward exiting (path 2b.)

2a.b. The Betrayed spouse demands 1a., is still not given it, but they carry on trying, but not resorting to 1b. Please enter now the script of the manipulating spouse. They have the piece of paper that tells them how to 'eat cake', keep spouse, family and reputation, and keep exciting lover on the side. In order to do this, they now use manipulative tactics which blame you. They can blame you for their unhappiness which led to the affair, they excuse the affair, they remain secretive and blame you for being paranoid or they give enough openness to satisfy you while taking their secretive actions underground (this is why you must NEVER reveal your sources on how you discovered the affair and must refrain from telling them how much you know (therefore getting them to give more info than you had) or how you know), they insist on privacy by saying there is something wrong with you for demanding openness, they stop you bringing it up to talk about it by getting angry and defensive when you do, by accusing you of dragging it up, of NEVER being able to move on, of NEVER being able to just let it go, to 'trust me' and so on. Namecalling is usually a must. Nasty stuff. Some or all of these tactics are used. All these tactics, regardless, are designed to shut you up, project the issue on to you, make you feel at fault, to silence you. This is gaslighting. It is massively abusive behaviour. Mental abuse. It is truly horrendous when you don't realise what is going on, and truly liberating when you can see right through it. See it for what it is. Once you are liberated from the manipulation, you often move automatically and naturally to a complete and serious demand for 1a. and if no result then they get 1b. Thus, inducing 1 and 1a. or the inevitable conclusion due to their lack of love and wish never to R, separation and divorce.

So you see, this is the cheater script. And the Betrayed Spouse also has their script embedded. Do you see your path? His path? Do you see that option 1 is the ONLY way forward. And if he isn't giving it freely then you have to make it happen. And you can only make it happen through serious demands, give it all up now or the result is separation and divorce. Real consequences. 

Option 2 only draws out the whole experience, the pain. Option 2 is destructive. Option 2 allows him to pile on more crap, more on top of what he has already put you through. Option 2 is an injustice to you, to him, to the marriage, to the family. Option 2 in not an option.

I hope other posters will add anything I have missed, I will edit it in. And I hope I have written it correctly and clearly, and not too confusingly. It is difficult to tell when writing on my phone. 

This is how I see it anyway, from my own experience and from reading many others. All the same. Don't ever doubt that. Don't think that your situation, that you, that your husband, is different. Because within this script, you are not.

We have been through it, have been immersed in it, unable to see clearly just like you, many of us wishing we had taken strong decisive action, brought option 1 swiftly. But many of us did not. Many of us followed option 2. 

Option 2 is weak. It shows weakness. Which is why, after prolonging the agony with option 2, option 1 and the full decisive results of it becomes difficult. This is due to the fact that the wish for the 'never to repeat again' from the Wayward because of the fear of what they might lose, will not be so strong. Not so strong due to the weakness of following option 2. Due to the lack of decisiveness of option 1 being the 10 ton weight that was dropped on them upon discovery. 

You started off really well, and then crumbled. Bring back your show of strength and drop the bomb on him. Tell him, give it all up now, or face divorce. And mean it.


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