# Custody Battles



## What goes Around... (Mar 22, 2012)

Are there any men on this board who have succeeded in modifying custody, or taking custody away from there ex's.

We are separated. We have 50:50 and have been doing so successfully for 9 months. Ex now states in a petition that she wants to modify because "She thinks it is in the best interest of the children". That is completely BS, as I am a good functional father and my kids love me to pieces. I have countered with my own petition for primary custody. Is she wants a war, she's got it.

Any words of advice...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

This might be a better question to discuss with your attorney. It depends on your income/ life style/ etc.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Your kids may love you to pieces--I don't doubt it. But, do they really need to see their mom everyday to feel safe and cared for? If she was the primary caregiver, that may be the bottom line. Before you assume that isn't true, give it careful thought. Most kids are parented more by their mothers and they feel safer in her company. If you feel that 50:50 custody is not hurting their sense of safety, fine. But to counter with a petition of your own is childish and will be extremely damaging. You have said nothing to suggest it would be in their best interest. You've turned it into her vs. you--without knowing WHY she did what she did, or even considering it MIGHT be in their best interest. That's just wrong.

And, before anyone goes balistic--I've said the same to dads who were primary caregivers--and the courts have recognized dad's role and given primary custody. This isn't about gender--it's about who took care of the kids the most, and how ripping the kids from that too soon or too quickly is just bad for kids.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Get yourself over to DadsDivorce.com and study up there - they have a lot of useful resources for a dad in your position. 

And yes, do prepare for war and follow through. It's very likely that she is not doing this for 'the good of the children' but for the good of her pocketbook (CS) or preparations for bringing a new guy in to take over your roll as father of your children (as envisioned by her).

And yes, I am going to go ballistic on sisters359 for her automatic anti-man/anti-dad stance, as you have said nothing to indicate that you should get less custody... which she is saying that you deserve (without anything to factually support such a position - here's a hint: you've been just as much "primary" as she has been for the last 9 months, the definition of 50:50 and sisters is ignoring/refuting that)


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Just jump to conclusions, Anubis. A 9 month period would be long enough to see it isn't working very well for the kids. Just b/c he's been doing it doesn't mean he's doing it well. Also, it does not mean he is NOT doing it well. I said 50:50 is fine if it IS working for the kids, but if he wants to put the kids first, he needs to think about how it is affecting them, and stop assuming it is about money. 

Research shows that men ask for custody to avoid paying, and women offer to give up $$$ in exchange for more custody--which is one reason the laws in most states use a formula, b/c otherwise men agree to give up custody as long as it saves them money (and while women have done the same, the evidence is that it is primarily men who have made custody about getting money). 

When dads are primary caregivers of young children now, they get primary custody. Men need to let go of those old arguments--they were NEVER true (that women used kids to get money) because the research proved it--women ended up poorer and giving up more money so they could have the kids. If kids are school age and neither parent was Stay-at-Home, then 50: 50 is the current default. It does not always prove best for the kids. Get over yourself and look at the children. I'm not the one having a knee-jerk reaction.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> Your kids may love you to pieces--I don't doubt it. But, do they really need to see their mom everyday to feel safe and cared for? If she was the primary caregiver, that may be the bottom line. Before you assume that isn't true, give it careful thought. Most kids are parented more by their mothers and they feel safer in her company. If you feel that 50:50 custody is not hurting their sense of safety, fine. But to counter with a petition of your own is childish and will be extremely damaging. You have said nothing to suggest it would be in their best interest. You've turned it into her vs. you--without knowing WHY she did what she did, or even considering it MIGHT be in their best interest. That's just wrong.
> 
> And, before anyone goes balistic--I've said the same to dads who were primary caregivers--and the courts have recognized dad's role and given primary custody. This isn't about gender--it's about who took care of the kids the most, and how ripping the kids from that too soon or too quickly is just bad for kids.


I would counter to leave things as is stating you believe her and you to both be capable parents. She needs good reason like abuse or neglect to change status quo. Judge more likely to keep as is than change and you look the better parent willing to foster strong relationship for both parents with kids.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## What goes Around... (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm on board with Anubis, and frankly, Sister did tick me off a bit...because she's making generalizations wo knowing my particular circumstances.

It is all about $$ and other things...but on the other end. My ex to be has shown over and over again, that her kids are not her priority, but her new boyfriend and mid life crisis. Here are facts.

Ex - extramarital affair, throws divorce at me.

The OM - extramarital affair in reverse thrown out of his house for involvement with my spouse.

OM not a pot to pee in, and since April of 11 has only mustered two overnight stays w his kids for custody....at my house.

Less than 9 months after separation, OM is living in my house full time. Cohabitation, during mutual separations.

OM is a deadbeat and is in contempt of his financial obligations to his estranged spouse and kids.

I pay APL/support (lots!). OM is living in my house off my laurels.

My ex and OM our out ALL the time.

My ex and I are arguing over custody specifics as our court order states a Default schedule, but can be modified for business purposes or other important events as to arrange 50:50 time with each parent.

Ex manipulates custody schedule to support her social outings masquerading them as "business". She tries to use me as the default baby sitter, but then expects time back off the normal default schedule.

I will not give her "time back" if I take them as she is out partying. She balks as says I am not following the custody order and it needs to be changed.

Ex spends frivolously, even business dollars to have her BF travel with her....while I pay $$ towards her and my kids, and secure my own place and spend what is needed for the 50:50 arrangement.

My ex has shown repeatedly that time with her BF takes priority over time spent w her kids.

I have secured my own place where my kids are comfortable.

My kids are thriving in school

My kids are healthy

My kids love me to pieces

My kids look forward to coming to my place

OK, there are things my ex probably does better than me. But that notion is hardly a reason to change custody. If anything, her deprioritizations, and partying mid life crisis make an unstable environment for the kids. My daughter said to me once "Every time mommy gets a baby sitter, she goes to a party". My daughter also said the other day "Mommy had bags under her eyes this morning and said she drank too much last night".....As my wife brings the OM to her bedroom when separation is 9 months old and pictures of me and her still adorn the house.

I am much more stable with my life and time now where my kids are my priority. I act like a mature 47 yo. She's 41 going on 19. I also have much better moral standards.

In a response to an emergency petition I filed right before a court master suggested 50:50, spouse writes "He has only shown recent interest in his kids lives to decrease support". That is so freaking infuriating, it isn't funny. I have been a HUGE part of these kid's lives since day one and can easily prove it. To me that statement alone, along with the "real facts" suggests it is she who wants a "tag" of primary caregiver to get MORE support. I guarantee it. 

One thing for certain, time spent with the children are the furthest things from this lady's mind. It's the next social outing. Something she expects me to support not only with the custody schedule, but financially as well.

Stop w the generalizations Sister.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Generally there has to a significant change in circumstances before the court will make any changes in custody. It does not sound like there are any changs.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

What goes Around... said:


> I'm on board with Anubis, and frankly, Sister did tick me off a bit...because she's making generalizations wo knowing my particular circumstances.
> 
> It is all about $$ and other things...but on the other end. My ex to be has shown over and over again, that her kids are not her priority, but her new boyfriend and mid life crisis. Here are facts.
> 
> ...


I so hear you. I had a list longer than my leg about the neglectful, dangerous, abusive crap my ex did and I was told I chose him as a spouse and his co-parenting was good enough for the years we were married, not the courts fault I chose to have children with a jerk. That's why I suggested petitioning for status quo. You can fight, she can fight for primary and you'll end up with same agreement you have now. If you mud-sling her even though she deserves it, it could harm YOU. Look at adding a morality clause re: overnight guests in the best interest of the children of course. Best of luck - these circumstances suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

I am not offering legal advice (although I am an attorney but not a divorce lawyer) so I will just offer a few comments here.

Your kids' lives are the most important thing to consider in all of this, So often people lose sight of this but you seem to recognize that your kids are of primary importance.

After 9 months, your wife is most likely filing the petition to see if she get can it changed..what I mean is that it may or may not happen (probably not) but she's testing the waters.

Don't let your emotions get the best of you, especially if you wind up in front of the judge. Think through things logically and make sure your arguments are sound especially if you are defending and going on the offensive as to why you should get more custody time. 

Finally, I know you don't like the guy you ex wife is with but bringing up the fact that he doesn't pay his own child support, etc really has no bearing on your custody agreement. It could be related in a small way but I doubt a judge will want to hear much about it. Focus on your wife and why you feel she is fit/unfit first. Then, you can later focus on her choices of boyfriends and how that impacts your children.

Finally, 3Leafclover wrote a good message and what she said makes sense. While I do not completely agree with her regarding dropping your petition that certainly is a strategy. However, it depends on a number of factors including whether or not you have conclusive arguments as to why a judge should rule in your favor (talk to your attorney)

Best of luck.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Without knowing particulars, people have to generalize. Jeff has said the same thing--the tendency is for people NOT to put their kids first. I feel it is an obligation toward children to remind people--respectfully, as I did--to put the kids interests first and make sure that things are working for them. The comment you wrote about giving her a war was a big red flag--I still stand by the fact that you needed reminding.

I also think that, given what you say, getting a firm agreement with ROFR about times and dates will be in your favor. Document all the extra time the kids are with you. If she tries to ask for more time in the future, you can show the courts how much time you have ACTUALLY had the kids, vs. what child support you pay for her to have them. Do not initiate this, however, unless the situation becomes truly threatening to your kids. Mommy partying does not damage the kids--as long as they believe mom still loves them and she is still meeting their needs when with them, then it's best not to drag them through a custody battle.

I'm struggling with this very issue b/c my children have expressed to me that their dad is not really "available" to them when they are in his care. They are physically safe and he makes sure they get fed, but that's about it. He won't do their laundry, help with homework, etc. He tells them to do it. They are 14 and 10, so at least one is capable of doing laundry, but b/c the ex doesn't keep things neat in the laundry room, it becomes a challenge to get in there and figure out what needs what type of washing, etc. I end up taking care of all of it on my days in the house (we go back and forth to the house while the kids stay in it). So just because someone has 50% custody does not mean it is working well for the kids. I cannot decide if I'm doing the right thing by NOT asking for primary custody. I'd do it w/o asking for any more money (so we would not have to go back to court). I worry about saying anything to their dad b/c of the way he reacts to things--but I guess I'll have to. Maybe it will get him to step up to the plate better.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> *Without knowing particulars, people have to generalize. *Jeff has said the same thing--the tendency is for people NOT to put their kids first. I feel it is an obligation toward children to remind people--respectfully, as I did--to put the kids interests first and make sure that things are working for them. The comment you wrote about giving her a war was a big red flag--I still stand by the fact that you needed reminding.
> 
> I also think that, given what you say, getting a firm agreement with ROFR about times and dates will be in your favor. Document all the extra time the kids are with you. If she tries to ask for more time in the future, you can show the courts how much time you have ACTUALLY had the kids, vs. what child support you pay for her to have them. Do not initiate this, however, unless the situation becomes truly threatening to your kids. Mommy partying does not damage the kids--as long as they believe mom still loves them and she is still meeting their needs when with them, then it's best not to drag them through a custody battle.
> 
> I'm struggling with this very issue b/c my children have expressed to me that their dad is not really "available" to them when they are in his care. They are physically safe and he makes sure they get fed, but that's about it. He won't do their laundry, help with homework, etc. He tells them to do it. They are 14 and 10, so at least one is capable of doing laundry, but b/c the ex doesn't keep things neat in the laundry room, it becomes a challenge to get in there and figure out what needs what type of washing, etc. I end up taking care of all of it on my days in the house (we go back and forth to the house while the kids stay in it). So just because someone has 50% custody does not mean it is working well for the kids. I cannot decide if I'm doing the right thing by NOT asking for primary custody. I'd do it w/o asking for any more money (so we would not have to go back to court). I worry about saying anything to their dad b/c of the way he reacts to things--but I guess I'll have to. Maybe it will get him to step up to the plate better.


Surely if your intentions/motivations are good and honorable you would indeed take the time to find out what the particulars of the situation are before you offer advice.



Instead you don’t do that and you generalise. But it’s not only that. You project your experience of your husband onto “all men” and then project your generalisation on to the OP!


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Generally there has to a significant change in circumstances before the court will make any changes in custody. It does not sound like there are any changs.


:iagree:

The time for deciding what is in the best of the children post-marriage passed 9 months ago.

If she wants to change that decision, she'd have the burden to prove why that original decision was in error.

That said, your counter-petition seems punitive and silly to me. It sounds to me like your ex is being manipulative, but it's easier to just assume she is acting on behalf of her kids and let it play out. If you are a fit dad, you have little to worry about.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

With some cheating women, it's ALL about the money if the cuckold was the sole financial supporter for the family unit. This is particularly true if it turns out that the payer didn't father the children but was fooled into thinking he did.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> Just jump to conclusions, Anubis. A 9 month period would be long enough to see it isn't working very well for the kids. Just b/c he's been doing it doesn't mean he's doing it well. Also, it does not mean he is NOT doing it well. I said 50:50 is fine if it IS working for the kids, but if he wants to put the kids first, he needs to think about how it is affecting them, and stop assuming it is about money.
> 
> Research shows that men ask for custody to avoid paying, and women offer to give up $$$ in exchange for more custody--which is one reason the laws in most states use a formula, b/c otherwise men agree to give up custody as long as it saves them money (and while women have done the same, the evidence is that it is primarily men who have made custody about getting money).
> 
> When dads are primary caregivers of young children now, they get primary custody. Men need to let go of those old arguments--they were NEVER true (that women used kids to get money) because the research proved it--women ended up poorer and giving up more money so they could have the kids. If kids are school age and neither parent was Stay-at-Home, then 50: 50 is the current default. It does not always prove best for the kids. Get over yourself and look at the children. I'm not the one having a knee-jerk reaction.


I asked for 50:50 because I want to see my son as much as legally possible. 

Also, there is nothing wrong with looking out for your own financial interests especially with a vindictive, emotionally unstable ex. Yes many women will use the courts to financially punish a man. 

My cousin payed 16 years of child support because his NJ ex convinced his daughters that he was a low class loser. He actually overpaid CS and lived in squalor while his daughters and his NJ EX lived it up. I felt sorry for him and tried to help as much as I could. He would just drink to forgot the pain.

Karma's a ***** though, his NJ exw got knocked up by her boyfriend with twins and she started making his life miserable and was overheard saying "I'm set for another 18 years!" Worthless POS. Well he actually filed for custody and got 50:50 and doesn't pay any CS (or very little). 

Today, my cousin still has no relationship with his daughters because they think he's a loser but they sure as heck took his money.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Ok, I don't know what state you live in, but in my state,the custody order would prevent overnight opposite sex "friends" in the home while the children are in residence. I would seek to change the order to include this clause ASAP. It is an easy argument to the judge that this is deliterious to the children.


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