# Anyone in a similar situation as this?



## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

After 1 year of counseling, my wife still says she is no longer in love with me. We have been together for 10 years, married for 8, and have two boys; 3 and 5. She is my second wife, and is the world to me. I love her very much and am devastated. She says her feelings changed after I failed to "step up to the plate" during a very bad financial crisis. I, however, noticed a slight change in her attitude since the deaths of her mother and close sister -in-law at the same time about a year and a half before this. Unfortunately, we have never been very good at communication, so, neither of us let on to the other any complaints we had during those times. 
As of right now, we are living together, still very friendly, almost as if nothing is different except for the fact that we are no longer intimate, don't hold hands, hug, etc. She has no plans to separate or even sleep in different rooms, we still share a bed. She is comfortable with this, I am having a very hard time.
FInally, she is seeing a therapist to see if there is anything blocking her feelings for me. This is my final thread of hope. 
I was hoping to see if anyone else has been or is in a similar situation and had a positive outcome.
Thank you.


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## wonder (Jun 30, 2008)

i was in a similiar situation w/ my stbxh. he changed, i didn't, so he said i didn't contribute to our marriage, he did all the work, i was lazy, blah blah blah. we did counciling, didn't work (i now think he had no intention to make it work). we lived seperately in the same house until this past feb when he finally moved out. it's been over a year since he said he didn't love me anymore. he was constantly saying we're going to get a divorce. i told him he's the one who has to file and pay my fees. we both talked to lawyers. other than that, no word from him about a divorce. he's now saying his head's just messed up. what keeps me going is the lawyer i talked to said if he really wanted a divorce, nothing would have stopped him from filing.
don't know if this helps, but at least you know you're not alone in dealing w/ this crap.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I call this LIMBO. Nothing changes except the "disconnet" of feeling. That is where I feel that you are in the mud and not moving. See my thread on "I love you but am no longer in love with you." 

For my husband 2 major crisis in a year started these feelings. Similiar to your wife's family deaths. I suppose it starts stirring up feeling of "is there more to life?" Plus my husband is 45 and perhaps has a touch of the mid life crisis as well. I don't know.

I've tried everything. He said he tried before and did it all. Of course this was during the time in which he never expressed his unhappiness and pretended to be happy! I didn't know or suspect. He could have COMMUNICATED! duh. In Oct. once he admitted this no longer in love with me feeling, I was like "lets work on this!" He wasn't receptive at much. His trying meant half hearted attempts....couples counseling included.

This is what I did. After 3 months of him saying he wanted a divorce and doing nothing to move forward with it, and me seeing in pain and living the the darkness ( as I termed it). I decided that I wan't going to be a doormat. I told him, the I was going to move along and move out. He said "no you stay in the house." I said "NO WAY." I don't want the house and the memories and the headaches. I want to start fresh with our daughter (14) and you can have the neighbors knocking on your door asking where I am! 

This sucks. I hope that reality will sink him once we are gone and he's left with an empty house. This is my last resort. However, I am not filing for the divorce. We'll see how fast he files when I leave!


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

Corpuswife,
I thought about moving out, but I don't want to leave my 2 boys, and I don't want to take them out of the house. Also, I can't help but feel like we can fix this as long as we are together, I look at it like a sickness almost. Once she gets better, it will be ok. But while she is sick, I can't abandon her. Does that make sense, or am I just a pathetic excuse for a man? I married her for better or worse, this is the worse.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Orich,

Always remember that things always work out, just not necessarily the way you want them to. Don't think of it as fixing it, think of making it better. 

She probably is going through a tough time with the deaths. In some people it brings about a downness that is hard to break. I see it in my mother when one of her remaining brothers dies or one of her close friends. It brings out her mortality to her and brings her down. All you can do is be there for her.

It will take time but it sounds like you are willing. See what the therapist tells her and maybe she will see things anew.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Orich said:


> After 1 year of counseling, my wife still says she is no longer in love with me. .


It was over two years ago when I heard those words from my wife. But here we are, still together, still working at it, still supporting each other. Communication was also a huge problem for us. But today we communicate better than we ever have. You mention physical intimacy as a problem for you so I would guess that is your love language. Start communication with her and let her know that physical touch is important to you. (Chapman’s The 5 Languages of Love) Just as she is looking for you to “step up to the plate” in dealing with financial issues you need her to do this for you. Tell her that. Recovery is a two way street. It may be awkward even difficult for her at first but given time it can become more natural and caring. My wife and I are not completely whole yet but we are in a much better place for our marriage and kids then we were when it all went to crap. Give it time and effort and it can turn around for you also. Good luck, I hope the therapist can help you find some answers.


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks, guys, it is good to hear some positive feedback. I feel so hopeless sometimes. I am trying very hard to keep a positive attitude, and hearing these responses give me hope that my wife and I will stay together and have a strong marriage again. I am ready to continue to work hard and stay patient.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I know what you mean about trying hard to keep a positive attitude. Everyone has their moments of weakness - I know I do. But for me they get further apart. You just got to work on yourself as well. For me that seemed selfish, but then I realized that if I am happy that will help everyone around me be happier. I've also tried to use agape love more where I have no expectations in return -- that is really helping me. For that is where I get down -- when nothing seems to be given in return (even if that is a sham) when I expected it. Amplexor had a nice link to an article about the types of love and that is where it really hit me. So Amplexor if you see this -- thanks for the link and info.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Feelingalone said:


> Amplexor had a nice link to an article about the types of love and that is where it really hit me. So Amplexor if you see this -- thanks for the link and info.


Sure thing Feeling and thank you for the props. Agape love was a tremendous asset for me when she was completely disconnected from me for many months. It really can help with the emotional roller coaster. Good luck to you both.


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## SnapDragon (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't understand what apage love is...help?


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

Amplexor,
What did you do during those disconnected months? How did you interact with her? I don't know what I should talk about with her, or if I should touch her. What can I do during this time to remind her that my love is still there and isn't going anywhere? Or, should I remind her that now? I want to make sure that I don't do anything to turn her away permanently.
Thanks!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Snap Dragon:

Agape: Many have heard me speak of agape love in several posts over the last year. Agape love is of particular significance to marriages in troubled waters, especially if one partner has disconnected. To love agapely is to love your spouse completely, love them wholly, but expect nothing in return from them at the current time. Agape love is different from eros love in that it is not sexual, nor romantic in nature. Its nature is that of self sacrifice but is not unconditional. You can love your spouse completely and still have boundaries and maintain your self respect. Agape love is also different from the other kinds of love in that you can choose it. You can elect to love your spouse this way because it is what is best for your family and marriage. It is a giving of yourself for the betterment of the marriage. Agape love can help you to “protect” yourself emotionally during difficult times as you love your spouse but expect nothing in return. Many I talk to have difficulty in trying to apply this type of love but if the marriage is in trouble and the detached spouse still cares for you but is in danger of leaving agape love can do wonders both for you and the marriage.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Orich said:


> Amplexor,
> What did you do during those disconnected months? How did you interact with her? I don't know what I should talk about with her, or if I should touch her. What can I do during this time to remind her that my love is still there and isn't going anywhere? Or, should I remind her that now? I want to make sure that I don't do anything to turn her away permanently.
> Thanks!



Everyone’s situation is different. In our case, we remained friends even during the hardest of times. We became better friends and more supportive of each other when we found ourselves standing at the exit to our marriage. We interacted as friends and co-parents to our kids. We did keep physical intimacy (not sexual) though out this period. Physical touch is my love language. Words of affirmation is hers. She still struggles at times with speaking my language but has improved greatly. It is a hard call to determine if you should give her space or try to draw her closer. (Try reading Dobson’s “Love Must be Tough") If she is willing to continue to try and make the marriage happier tell her of your need for physical touch. If she makes an effort give it lots of time to grow and improve. Don’t push her too hard and let it develop naturally. As far as showing her you love her and are committed then stick religiously to the changes you have made and do not falter. Remember it only takes one awe crap to wipe out a hundred attaboys. There is nothing wrong with occasionally telling her of your commitment but don’t over do it. As far as deep discussions about the marriage goes, if there is nothing new to discuss, leave it alone. Let things heal. Because she has said she is not interested in separation or divorce you are in a better situation than you think. :smthumbup: Many on the forum would love to be in that position. Good luck.


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

Thank you Amplexor. You have given me hope. My wife used to love when I brushed her hair, or spent a few minutes scratching her back. Recently, as she sat up in bed reading, I reached over and began to scratch her back, which I had done many times before. She kinda shrugged me off and said "You don't have to do that". I didn't do or say anything other than "OK". On one particular morning, I told her I thought she looked beautiful (she did). She said thank you. I asked if it was OK that I said that to her, to which she replied "You can say anything you want" not in a pissy way, though. Lastly, just last night I went to an appreciation dinner we were both supposed to attend. She wasn't feeling well and stayed home. While I was at the dinner, we texted back and forth a couple of times. When I came home, she asked how it was. I told her it was a nice evening, but I missed her. Her reaction to that was simply "oh yeah? was it weird going without me?" And then I ran down the evening to her. Mind you this was while we were both in the same bed about to go to sleep.
The thing that is in my head now, and that I am holding on to, is that if she was totally done with me, she wouldn't be interested in having conversations with me, texting me when I am not home, or even sleeping in the same bed. Or would she? I hope I am not projecting hope instead of assessing a fact.
Anyway, thanks for responding. As I said, I am trying to stay positive, and positive feedback here helps me tremendously.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Your wife doesn’t appear to be angry with you. She doesn’t loath you or hate you, she has just become indifferent and disconnected. Don’t read too much into her actions or comments. You are in a state of high anxiety right now so all of her actions are magnified, good and bad. If you hang on every word your emotional swings will peek and valley with them and that is a difficult ride to ride. Focus on the long term improvement and don’t get ecstatic if she gives you an unexpected peck on the cheek. It took the two of you a long time to get in this hole. You won’t clime out overnight. Be strong in spirit around her, continue your changes and show her you are in this for the long haul. Again, try “Love Must Be Tough”. Good luck.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

There is some good advice on this thread. Amplexor has some great advice. The indffference is what is killing me. I think, for my husband...it's depression. I've suggested this but he doesn't think so. He says, "I am depressed because of my marriage." 

I agree with not overanalyzing everything and not overdoing conversation (about marriage), touching, etc. It is easier said than done.


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

I just want to put this out there as I have been thinking about this for a little while. Say my wife has been unhappy for a while, but never says anything, just pretends like everything is fine, perhaps believing it will get better. It doesn't get better, and she grows unhappier, than indifferent, and then her feelings of love for me are gone. In her mind, I made her unhappy for a long enough time where she just simply doesn't love me anymore. Because of this, she feels freer, and is now exhibiting some signs of MLC, namely going out with friends to a bar once or twice a week. In this scenario, can she regain feelings for me, or is it too late? It has been some time now where I have made improvements to myself, including things that previously upset her. I have kept these changes, and she even acknowledges them, and is glad for them. She does want to and does continue to see a psychotherapist in the hopes that she can regain her love for me. She tells me that she does indeed want the feelings to come back. 
Any observations? Insights? I guess I am still looking for threads of hope here.
Thank you for reading this.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Orich,

If she wants the feelings to come back, to me that means they are still there - just buried deep. Just remember, it takes time. Your actions are working if she acknowledges them. Keep improving yourself. You both needed to reconnect with yourselves first to improve the couple second is my guess.

At least that is where I'm at with my w. As hard as it is just keep doing it.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Feelingalone said:


> Orich,
> 
> If she wants the feelings to come back, to me that means they are still there - just buried deep. Just remember, it takes time. Your actions are working if she acknowledges them. Keep improving yourself. You both needed to reconnect with yourselves first to improve the couple second is my guess.
> 
> At least that is where I'm at with my w. As hard as it is just keep doing it.


:iagree:

Yes there is hope and as long as she says she wants it to work out things are on the positive side. Continue in both of you improving yourself for the marriage. These things can take long time and are usually gradual in nature.


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

Well, yesterday my wife told me that she doesn't think counseling or anything else is going to help her regain feelings for me. She isn't going to continue. She has all but told me now that she isn't really interested in making the marriage work. So, so far since she has told me she doesn't love me anymore, she has gone to marriage counseling with me, but I don't think she put 100% into it, she has been prescribed anti-depressant medication, but took herself off them after a week, and has now decided to stop going to individual counseling after only 3 sessions. During that time, I have bent over backwards and sacrificed in order to give her what she needed to in order for our marriage to work. I don't honestly know if she really is in a messed up state of mind, or if she really and truly just simply does not love me anymore. 
After a conversation with the marriage counselor, whom I still see on my own, I have decided that it is time that I let her know what I want. What have I got to lose at this point? I am going reiterate how much I love her, and how that isn't going to change (agape love!) Then I am going to give her a list: 
1. I want her to continue counseling.
2. I want us to attend a Retrouvaille weekend.
3. I want her to tell her family what is going on, especially her father who lives in an apartment in our house.
I want her to make a decision about these things in a relatively short amount of time. If she can't or won't agree, then I am going to have to start talking about separation. It will be very difficult for me and our 2 boys (5 and 3), but I can't continue on in limbo like this with no clear objective in the future. I don't want to separate, I want our marriage to work. But if she isn't willing to continue to try and make it work, what else can I do?
Any thoughts or experiences on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree with your approach. Lay it out, state what you want, and if it still doesn't work out, then at least you will have the peace of mind knowing that you tried your best. Personally, I don't expect she will have a change of heart and obviously you can't make someone love you (again). Sounds to me like a separation is inevitable.


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## div2wice (Sep 18, 2008)

You would be surprised to know the affects that unhandled grief can have on life, especially relationships. I guarantee you this is what has affected her and changed her feelings.
When you don't deal with grief, you set it aside and it will and always does come out in some other aspect of your life. Most people don't even realize it...they'll claim they're ok, and they dealt with it but in reality they didn't. They often don't find out until its too late.
I still think marital counseling is essential for you two. A year is a great start but these deep issues weren't created overnight so you should expect to attend therapy for a bit to make sure things are handled.
She needs personal and separate therapy with a therapist experienced in dealing with grief. Without this, it will be difficult to mend your relationship...

Pamela
Do It Yourself Divorce | Divorce Forms | File For Divorce


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

So, should I stay in this situation the way it is? Living like roommates? Should I tell her to make a decision now? Should we separate? I just don't know what to do. I don't want to do anything to destroy any last bit of hope. If I know there is a chance that therapy will help her love me again, then I could wait as long as it takes.
Thank you very much for reading this and responding. It does help. I am very confused and very sad.


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## Orich (Jun 8, 2009)

She seems to have made a decision, but doesn't stick to it kinda...
I asked her point blank - Do you want this marriage to survive. She said simply: "no". OK, then, what is the next step? She says she will start telling her family but we cant afford the house and an apartment, nor can we sell the house and live in separate apartments. There just isn't enough money. So, a couple of days later of her sleeping on the couch and me not caring, she still hasn't told anyone in her family including her dad who lives in the apartment in our house. She is afraid to talk to my parents, she is afraid that they don't like her. And she has been constipated for the last couple of days due to stress. 
I don't know what is going to happen from here. She is adamant that she is done with the marriage, but hasn't done anything yet to end it.
WTF? What am I to make of all this. I made it clear to her that I don't want to live together but with separate lives. I also made it clear that I am not moving out, nor am I not sleeping in our bed. 
Any advise on what my next move should be?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

She is afraid to make the move. Follow Dobson’s Love Must be Tough method and let her know you are moving one. Be confident and strong and begin to make plans to separate. It can sometimes draw a spouse back.


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## unhappy at home (Mar 21, 2009)

Orich, I am sorry to hear about your situation. My Husband and I have been living like roomates for what seems like forever to me.
I finally laid it on the table that I am not willing to continue with things this way. I offered to move out although I really don't want to due to disrupting my kids lives. We finally came to an agreement that he is going to stay with family with the hopes that time apart will give us both time to think and see if we want to work to make our marriage work, or if this is the end. I have mixed feelings as if this will work, but at the very least we will hopefully move forward one way or anther and stop living in limbo.
Since we have made this decision he has been very loving and attentive, we talk more and do not argue. I am hoping this will be a fresh start for us.
Maybe if you and your wife spend time apart it will open her eyes to what she has and will realize that your marriage is worth fighting for. She sounds very confused and unsure of what she wants.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Orich said:


> My wife used to love when I brushed her hair, or spent a few minutes scratching her back. Recently, as she sat up in bed reading, I reached over and began to scratch her back, which I had done many times before. She kinda shrugged me off and said "You don't have to do that". I didn't do or say anything other than "OK".


I have done that to my husband, but the response i was waiting or hoping for was "i know i dont have to do it, i just want to do it. I love touching your hair, or i love your hair, its beautiful or whatever fill in the blank... Sometimes, especially when our feelings are hurt or we are trying to keep you guys at arms length because we dont want to get hurt again, we do stuff like this. I seriously doubted that she hated it, it probably reminded her of old times when things were good, but she is scared to jump in head first. Kind of like an armour we unconsiously use. So she said you dont have to, and she knows you are going to quit. But secretly she is hoping or wanting you to prove your love for her.
Dont ask me why we do this things. I know i Used to because i wanted him to say "but i want to becuase i love you". Since men cant read our minds anymore then we can read yours, i quit being so vague. If you continue doing these little things that remind her why she fell in love with you in the first place, unless she downright tells you to stop. I suggest keep doing it. I would love it if my husband would try anything, touching my hair, running a finger down my back or side, feet massage, whatever. She will stiffing up at first, and might say something like that, but if she doesnt tell you to stop, keep doing it. AND DONT EXPECT SEX AS THE REWARD.... when you are done rubbing her feet or brushing her hair, just kiss her on the head, or feet or mouth and say i love you. 




> On one particular morning, I told her I thought she looked beautiful (she did). She said thank you. I asked if it was OK that I said that to her, to which she replied "You can say anything you want" not in a pissy way, though.


again, she is telling you in a way that she likes you to say things like that {i know i do} but since she has this wall built around her, she is not or unable to say anything differently. Dont start getting all depresprate for the response you want and asking for a pat on the head because you said or did something. Just do it whether she acts like she notices it or not {and we usually always notice}. I know i like it when my husband does the dishes, but i completely hate it when he walks up to me and tells me did you notice i did the dishes, or hey i did the dishes. UGH. I think great! you did the dishes and now you need appreciation, so it is not for me but for you. because you guys usually dont thank us for doing the dishes or whatever. 



> The thing that is in my head now, and that I am holding on to, is that if she was totally done with me, she wouldn't be interested in having conversations with me, texting me when I am not home, or even sleeping in the same bed. Or would she?


 I know i wouldnt. The fact that she is still talking to you, texting you and sleeping in the same bed. is a good sign and i would say {as a woman} that she still has hopes that you will pull your head out of your azz and fix it. lightly said. Keep up the good work, dont ask for rewards or appreciation, just do it because you love her and want to make her smile or happy. Dont worry she will notice and things will get better. If you say you are sorry, actually mean it. dont say sorry all mad or like it is our fault you are saying sorry. we catch on that quickly, dont rub our back then think we are just going to roll over for sex, we catch on that quickly too.

good luck to you, i give you kudos for at least caring and trying to make your marriage better.
remember what i say doesnt go 100% for all women, some are different but i hope it is helpful in your case.


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