# Back in the same old rut - sexless marriage



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

It's been awhile and I thought things were getting better. But, we are back to square one. I have a HD and she has a LD or ND. I went to a counselor and she was supposed to go but never did. It was never a priority for her so she never signed up or made time for her session. I kept asking if she made an appointment and she kept saying she was too busy. 

She got injured last Fall and really bruised her ribs on one side. I waited on her constantly while she was in intense pain. Didn't win any brownie points. Now, her ribs still are sore on occasion and I'm afraid to touch her for fear of hurting her. 

Needless to say, we haven't been intimate since the injury. I've told her we need to get back to intimacy. But, no dice. 

When I get home from a business trip, I get no affection. A little kiss on the lips is about it. I can't walk up behind her to give her a hug for fear of hitting her sore ribs. 

I need to feel wanted and needed. She says she loves me. But words and actions don't go together. 

She doesn't like to wear sexy lingerie. When she gets in bed, she will often wear flannel pajamas, pull the covers over her and clamp the covers down over herself with her arms. If I try to move one of her arms to try to play, she stiffens up the arm and that kills any thoughts of intimacy right there.

Frustrated again.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> She got injured last Fall and really bruised her ribs on one side. I waited on her constantly while she was in intense pain. Didn't win any brownie points. Now, her ribs still are sore on occasion and I'm afraid to touch her for fear of hurting her.
> 
> Needless to say, we haven't been intimate since the injury. I've told her we need to get back to intimacy. But, no dice.


I've had bruised and broken ribs.
The injury does *not* last 6 months.

Something else is going on...


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

DanF said:


> I've had bruised and broken ribs.
> The injury does *not* last 6 months.
> 
> Something else is going on...



The ultrasound she had didn't show anything. She still says the ribs hurt.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Change positions so as not to put pressure on her flanks. Cowgirl, reverse cowgirl or some kind rear entry or modified missionary where you're above her but you're kneeling and she's laying back might work. Or have her lay on her good side and enter her from behind, spoony-style.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Change positions so as not to put pressure on her flanks. Cowgirl, reverse cowgirl or some kind rear entry or modified missionary where you're above her but you're kneeling and she's laying back might work. Or have her lay on her good side and enter her from behind, spoony-style.


Sounds great. But, as DanF said, there has to be something else going on. I just don't know what. 

I'm going to try to talk with her tonight. I'm starved for affection and intimacy.


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

You have to tell her what you need.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

got similar issue TX, its always something getting in the way. her knee, headaches, sinus infections. etc....

it gets to the point where ya just wanna quit, but i dont. i resigned myself to her being very LD and thats just something that isnt going to change. 

my wife is the type of person who would stop at nothing to get what she wants, when it comes to sex she never starts


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> got similar issue TX, its always something getting in the way. her knee, headaches, sinus infections. etc....
> 
> it gets to the point where ya just wanna quit, but i dont. i resigned myself to her being very LD and thats just something that isnt going to change.
> 
> my wife is the type of person who would stop at nothing to get what she wants, when it comes to sex she never starts


You want to fix that asap. I know for me it would lead to wanting others and to leave.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Nicbrownn80 said:


> You want to fix that asap. I know for me it would lead to wanting others and to leave.


yeah, that would be nice. been going on for years and any and all attempts to fix it havent improved it. ya see, the partner has to WANT to improve it before it gets better. sex twice a month, no more and sometimes less. want others for sure but wouldnt do it while married.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Okeydokie,

Twice a month would be better than what I have now. I'm tired of being rejected over and over again. Hearing the same old excuses wears you down mentally. I keep working out, watching what I eat and taking my medication to stay healthy physically. 

I'm in good shape. My wife has let herself go. She recently had a physicall and the Dr. suggested she start exercising beginning with walking. Hasn't happened yet. 

When I had some health issues several years ago, it was a wake up call. I got back in the gym and began watching what I eat. My wake up call had no effect on her behavior.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I was there with you guys this time last year... Bit of a life scare 2 years ago resulting in lifestyle changes, sex once a month and rejection on a regular basis for multiple years...

Been separated for a month now, with no intention of going back. Not entirely due to the above, but they weren't insignificant factors.

C


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

PBear said:


> I was there with you guys this time last year... Bit of a life scare 2 years ago resulting in lifestyle changes, sex once a month and rejection on a regular basis for multiple years...
> 
> Been separated for a month now, with no intention of going back. Not entirely due to the above, but they weren't insignificant factors.
> 
> C


PBear,
Thanks for chiming in. I know my wife is experiencing some stress at work because her boss (a female) left to go to another company. So, she has uncertainty at work with not knowing who will be the new boss. But, that is relatively recent and does not explain prior behaviors. 

When she comes home from work and I ask how she feels, she says "Tired"! That's a big roadblock she throws out there for any chance at intimacy. If I try to give her a hug while she is cooking dinner, she typically stiffens up and says she is in the middle of cooking. Duh! Why not be a little more responsive to the affection outside of the bedroom.

BTW, I experienced the Japan earthquake first hand during a layover from a trip to Asia. Had to spend the night at the airport and all the experiences of the earthquake. I get home and she is on the computer, doesn't get off the bed or off the computer. No hugs, nothing. When I talked to her about the lack of emotions when I got home safely, she said she thought I was in a bad mood. Duh! She caused it. I was happy to be home and thought she would be more appreciative that I made it home ok. Her lack of response may have caused me to appear to be in a bad mood (plus jetlag).


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Ah yes the tired thing. Wifey conks out about 830pm most days. But you can track her mood with a sundial. Around sundown it starts to crash. No one in the family tries to speak with her or engage her after around 7pm as it's just a screaming argument waiting to happen. So 'tired' works. Go with 'tired'. Fine. At least she's not up wreaking havoc.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

What I do when things get like that is I completely de-prioritize my wife. I don't initiate anything, I don't hug her or talk to her and limit conversations to scheduling etc. Then I make my self scarce, start going out, visiting friends etc on my own.

Eventually she starts to question why I am not around and cold. At that point I reiterate I am not cold, I am reacting the way I am being treated and occupying my time in a more positive atmosphere.
Usually at this point she says something annoying, however her actions are what I go buy and usually she will start being more friendly and positive to be around. 

If she didn't miss me and didn't care at this point - well then you have to question what kind of relationship you have and reevaluate your options.

But don't continue pursuing something that is moving away from you. if you don't stop, they never will either. Got to give them a chance to look back and they might even decide to come toward you if you give them the space to do so. The problem is guys take two days to do this, woman can take two months to do this.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I think we've done a pretty good job of de-prioritizing already. When the weekend is upon us, she will ask "what are your plans this weekend"? Not, what do you want to do this weekend together?

I can pull away and she will just immerse herself in her quilting.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

In the short term sure, but how long will she let this go one before it bothers her? If your answer is forever............then why are you still in this relationship - she obviously is no longer invested.

Put another way........ if this pattern is well established then you already know that if you do x, she will do y. It's like Ensteins quote regarding insanity.........Insanity is defined as doing the same things over and over again, and yet expecting different results.

I.E. - Do things drastically differently and continue over the long term as women will ignore almost anything in the short term, or get aggressive as a response. But over the long term sometimes they will makes changes as a response.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

The other component is healthy fear (I don't mean physical fear) . If she doesn't ever have to worry about consequences of her actions , or consequences of her lack of actions then her behavior will reflect that.

If the relationship is at risk she needs to feel that.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Know how you feel.

How 'bout this one - she accidentally touches your skin and jumps back like she's been burned!

I get this one frequently. 

Talk about making someone feel worthless, especially when a second later, he reaches out and pets the cat.

No advice - just there with ya!


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Just sent her a txt message to let her know I was thinking about her. It said, "hope you are having a great day!" Her message back was "Busy Can't Talk". Not "you too!" or something similar. I'm really getting sick of this.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> Just sent her a txt message to let her know I was thinking about her. It said, "hope you are having a great day!" Her message back was "Busy Can't Talk". Not "you too!" or something similar. I'm really getting sick of this.


Remember that her way of showing love could be completely different than yours.

Does that mean she loves less and you love more?

No

Just differently.

You're lucky - my husband doesn't even text - so we don't do the text thing.

I've learned to 'deal' with a lack of return of emotion when I give. It's just not him - never has been and it's never going to change, has actually gotten worse since his TBI. So I do give more than I get emotionally - so what - I can live with it.

Sexless though - different story - but of course my story has a lot of nuances to it so no advice there.

Don't take the texts too personally. Maybe she really was busy and just had to get a short 'busy - can't talk' out to you. Afraid that if she texted 'you too; that you would return with another text that she would have to ignore as she was busy and didn't want to hurt your feelings.

Maybe? Glass half full versus half empty can do a lot for your outlook.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

That is bs, for the amount of time it took to write that text she could have said any number of things that would have been more sincere

The question is why are you texting her. You are still chasing




MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Remember that her way of showing love could be completely different than yours.
> 
> Does that mean she loves less and you love more?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

bill2011,

I'm trying to communicate and generate some intimacy outside the bedroom. Maybe it is a waste of time. But, I thought I would try.

She will say, "I love you". I get a kiss when she is headed out for work in the morning and a kiss goodnight. But, that's not enough!


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

I hear you, but with responses like that I wouldn't do that anymore. You can interact with her when she contacts you or you are together. Have you checked out some of the threads regarding the lowering the thermometer. 

For me I would lower it and get a response and back off , but then it was back to same old stuff. So what I do now the minute it gets cold so do I and I keep myself busy. No ILY, texting, calling etc. After about three weeks of this I am just starting to see some signs of life.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

bill2011 said:


> That is bs, for the amount of time it took to write that text she could have said any number of things that would have been more sincere
> 
> The question is why are you texting her. You are still chasing
> 
> ...


Yup. Women love the chasing when your single. After awhile some may take it for granted. There's a 3 for 1 rule you can use with things like texting. 1 initiation for every 3 of hers. This will do a couple of things. 1. Give her space. 2. Allow you to focus on other things. Every time you make an attempt to connect and get the response you just got you probably spend a good part of the rest of the day trying to figure out your next move. Focus on yourself.


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

OK, I have a suggestion, but it is really up to you to take it or leave it.

Start creating passion. The passion is dead and as a result she is not sexually attracted to you.

The reason she clamps down her arm when you reach out and touch her in bed is because she is NOT turned on yet. Her natural defenses take over. I would call it my "wall" and my husband would have to work his butt off to get past the wall. Sadly, what he would try was counter-productive and I didn't even realize it until recently. He would gently rub and stroke my back and arms which does not create passion rather it creates a sense of safety and makes me fall asleep-til he goes for the crotch. lol
NOW I have learned some things that work so much better and easier to get past the wall!!!

Desire has to be cultivated before you reach the bed. There are lots of things you can try. I do agree with that you should stop initiating phone calls and texts unless they are necessary to let her know you'll be late or something.

Some things that may help:

*Spicing up the bedroom with toys and variety of positions

*Be more aggressive in bed-do not ask for sex! You'll get much better results by pouncing on the bed and playfully mauling her neck, telling her to take her clothes off, chasing her around the house, tickle/wrestle fights, etc.

*Get her off first (or really close) so that you can thrust hard and fast and not worry about her being unfulfilled. Don't view sex as a one act wonder so there is not as much pressure.

*Teasing and flirting. I cannot tell you how important this is for sexual desire. Sadly, most married people stop doing it. Start flirting and teasing your wife...sext her once in awhile.

*Come up behind her and kiss her neck
*Put your hand(s) on her waist

*See if there is anything you can do to improve your physical appearance. If you need to drop a few pounds or whiten your teeth, get a hair cut or anything like that. Put on her favorite aftershave or cologne.

*Take her out on fun dates once a week...or at least a couple times a month. Don't just settle for dinner and a movie. Try different things...do stuff where you can talk to eachother and do something physical sometimes. Let her know you have made plans to do whatever it is together....if she refuses to go do NOT show her that you are bothered by it. Just go yourself and have a wonderful time.

*Find out your wifes love language and try to speak it to her. Mine is quality time/conversation. It is literally like foreplay for me.

*Do something for YOU. Take up a healthy hobby or activity that you can participate in a couple hours a week.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

notaname - excellent advice there. - and in coleman notes format! Awesome.


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

eagleclaw said:


> notaname - excellent advice there. - and in coleman notes format! Awesome.


My pleasure!


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Notaname,

While I love your suggestions, I've tried most of them with little success. She is more comfortable at home than going out. Her idea of going out to eat is ordering takeout. 

Sometimes I wonder why I keep trying to make things better. I want to make it work. But, the lack of response from her is hard to take. I may try to talk to her ex-boss who she is very good friends with to get her advice.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Tx,

The things that notaname mentioned do work, but only after you've manned up, I've been doing those things for years with little success and even did more than that to no avail. Once you man-up and get good at it (I'm still learning but getting better everyday) then when you employ those things it's means so much more and has an effect.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I'll read up on the "manning up". Thanks!


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

DanF said:


> I've had bruised and broken ribs.
> The injury does *not* last 6 months.
> 
> Something else is going on...


One more thing, but I had to ask the wife since I couldn't remember.
When I broke two ribs in 2002, we made love while I was healing. I couldn't remember if we did or not, but she remembered, because it took me so damn long to change positions.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

This txting thing really pi$$es me off. 
'Busy. Cant talk' = 15 button presses (other than open/send etc)
'You 2 sexy!' = 11. Takes less time to write and means 1000x more.

It shows your partner that you are 'connecting' with them during the day. 'In shop. Do we need milk?' is not a 'connecting' txt!

I once sent my wife a txt saying 'Suddenly thought of you naked! Willy started to wake up!.....Ummm..!'.....she didnt respond to me but told our counsellor (who told me) that she was offended by it and felt pressured! Duh!
If my wife sent me a txt along the same sorts on lines I'd be looking at my watch all the time to see if it was going home time!

Anyway...I was once discussing txting with my mother in law...I said that it was sad that my wife and her sister (live on different continents) didnt communicate (txt) more often. The M in L became very defensive saying that X (not my wife!) was too busy to txt.
What a load of absolute bollocks! She could send a quick txt whilst on the bog/lavatory/toilet/john!

...not that its really relevent to this thread! Just letting off some steam!!!!!!


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Must be doing something right. My wife initiated last night for the first time in a very long time. Of course, I didn't turn her down either.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Must be doing something right. My wife initiated last night for the first time in a very long time. Of course, I didn't turn her down either.


Yeah!! :smthumbup:


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

Never be too available when you have this problem. Make her chase you for a bit. 


-seahorse


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Must be doing something right. My wife initiated last night for the first time in a very long time. Of course, I didn't turn her down either.


Excellent. 

I confess I have not read through all of the posts on this and related threads.

The text thing would hack me off ... but I guess it depends on circumstances somewhat. Depending on her job it could have been a knee jerk reaction. No excuse. What is her work situation?

I saw somewhere where your wife refused to go to individual counseling. That is huge. I won't embellish because you got that.

I also saw comments that some women say they can "live" without sex. They need to understand that most men cannot. One can say that is silly because men can live and be celibate. I say that they die from one moment to the next and kill the man himself. For me, there really is no marriage without a healthy and satisfying sexual relationship. I married a woman for a reason. I don't need a roommate. I don't want to live with my sister.

So this needs to improve dramtically for BOTH of you. It is a tough love situation. She is not happy.

I am sure this came up. Computers have been mentioned. Is she getting some of her needs met from outside the marriage?

I am also seeing she has a self image problem. This is a tough one but we have to do what we can to help that out. I give my wife positive reinforcement. That is a female need. Not saying you have not done this.

If all else fails she may need a real scare. i.e. that you are willing to move ahead and work on you and that since this is no longer a marriage that you signed up for ... I assume there were vows taken. The rub to this is that you should not bluff. You have to be ready to Man-up. If you truly love her you will.
You cannot love someone until you have yourself together first.

All this said, I am amazed at what I don't know about women. Martian I grok. Venetian confuses the heck out of me.

Doing the His Needs Her Needs on marriagebuilders hlepd my relationship, but I am also intruiged by what I am learning on this website. I think my relationship can benefit greatly. My biggest issue has been trying to be that Nice Guy when I just need to man-up.

Good luck.


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## Nickitta (May 12, 2011)

..I feel your pain... Try to seduce her. Prepare a nice meal or give her a lovely massage. Basically do some ground works.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah, right. Since fully 3/5ths of this board is about this one issue and in my own married there hasn't been sex since the last millennium, I conclude that's it all hopeless. There's no point in trying to fix any of this. It's systemic, endemic. It's normal. There's no sex in marriage and if there is, it's an anomaly. And even that's temporary, ephemeral.


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## Roooth (May 13, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> If I try to give her a hug while she is cooking dinner, she typically stiffens up and says she is in the middle of cooking. Duh! Why not be a little more responsive to the affection outside of the bedroom.
> QUOTE]
> 
> This is a big red flag, IMO. This could mean something is seriously wrong that has nothing to do with sex... OR it could mean that because you're a HD H, she thinks any affection is an attempt to have sex.
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Eggs-zakly. She pretty much hates you. Hate the ground you stand on and the air you breathe.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Roooth said:


> txhunter54 said:
> 
> 
> > If I try to give her a hug while she is cooking dinner, she typically stiffens up and says she is in the middle of cooking. Duh! Why not be a little more responsive to the affection outside of the bedroom.
> ...


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Eggs-zakly. She pretty much hates you. Hate the ground you stand on and the air you breathe.


LOL I think it comes down the the fact that she places no importance on intimacy beyond a brief kiss. I haven't been able to figure out why, she hasn't verbalized any reasons to me and she won't go to marriage counseling.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Don't know and frankly if she's not even willing to discuss whether she's willing to discuss that, then who cares? My wife idles at angry, pissed off and snarling. And throughout the day ratchets up from there until she passes out on the couch watching TV at about 8:30pm each night. Some people are just miserable. They're miserable miserable miserable people who's only hope in life is to make everyone as miserable as they are. In my case my wife has always been the one to suggest and then schedule one counselor after another. And she's the one who always and quickly fired them, one after another. 

I have to conclude that her goal in counseling was to find someone who would agree with everything she said and agree to all of her demands and would cheerfully review on a regular basis all the things she hated and judged about me. 

I also have to conclude that 'sex' was never in my wife's plan. Never. She consented enough to wrap our pre married relationship in a cloak of normalcy, and then shut down afterwards. She agreed to sex sufficient to conceive children and that, as they say, was that. I don't believe that a normal adult mature married relationship was something she had or has in mind. I think it shows the emotional maturity of a clever 14 year old pretending to be a 6 year old and fooling me and everyone into thinking she's an adult. Like people who don't have normal emotions but can fake what they perceive to be normal emotions in others.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Runs like Dog, 

Outwardly to other people, she is kind, considerate, funny, caring, etc. When I see her interact with others, she's like a completely different person. As a result, others think she is the greatest. 

I try to just hold hands walking from the car to a restaurant or car to a store and she makes me feel like I'm inconveniencing her by asking to hold hands. I don't think I'm pressuring her for sex by holding hands in public. 

It's quite frustrating. I've scheduled a counseling session for this friday.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

You have two options:

A) Either she really does not like you, and is repulsed by touching you - in which case you need to simply move on as there really is now fixing that.

B) She is very angry at you or resentful for something you did and this is not permanent - in which case you can work on this and it is repairable.

Assuming B) - I would make sure you are a good partner, meeting her needs and demonstrating the behaviour you expect. Then I would follow all of the "nice guy" information you can find in these forums.

If you don't start to get some reactions from her. Or she is simply happier if you deprioritize her and leave her alone then your marriage is likely done and you need to start the process of seperating yourself from her. This is not going to get better on it's own. Either you can help facilitiate the change WITH her interest in doing so as well - or she has already checked out irreversably. What you can't do is simply let her keep enjoying all the benefits ot the relationship while returning nothing, and acting like you disgust her. That's a sure path to even worse behavior on her part.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Eagleclaw, I hear you. I'm not willing to live in a roommate type relationship for the next 20-40 yrs. 

I have no idea whether it is it is option A or option B as I don't know the reason behind her behavior. Attempting to show affection sure isn't working. I'll revisit the nice guy info.


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