# Question about my married friend



## Soveryalone

Recently a married friend of mine and i have been talking quite a bit. She is very private so she doesn't share much about her marriage, just little bits and pieces. Last week or so the talking changed, it started to get intense, she started talking about feelings she was having and the conversation quickly turned into something else all together. I kept telling her that I respected her and her marriage very much. She told me she was feeling guilty because of how close she feels to me. I really don't know what to do. She did pull back a bit and we didn't speak for a day or so, but now we are talking pretty much throughout the day. We are both avoiding talking about what happened last week, in terms of the feelings she was having, we are very much casual now, just how was your day etc. 

She has said she is in a loveless marriage, she doesn't seem happy, and i just want to be there for her as a friend, to support her best i can, because she has done the same for me. I asked her if she was OK with how much time we spend talking together, she said she was fine with and enjoyed it very much. I guess I am just a little confused by all of this. I certainly do not plan to talk about any feelings i may or may not be having. When she said she was feeling close to me, right away I became a little nervous. Any thought, suggestions or speculation as to whats next. I really just want to be a friend to her.


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## Faeleaf

Soveryalone said:


> Recently a married friend of mine and i have been talking quite a bit. She is very private so she doesn't share much about her marriage, just little bits and pieces. Last week or so the talking changed, it started to get intense, she started talking about feelings she was having and the conversation quickly turned into something else all together. I kept telling her that I respected her and her marriage very much. She told me she was feeling guilty because of how close she feels to me. I really don't know what to do. She did pull back a bit and we didn't speak for a day or so, but now we are talking pretty much throughout the day. We are both avoiding talking about what happened last week, in terms of the feelings she was having, we are very much casual now, just how was your day etc.
> 
> She has said she is in a loveless marriage, she doesn't seem happy, and i just want to be there for her as a friend, to support her best i can, because she has done the same for me. I asked her if she was OK with how much time we spend talking together, she said she was fine with and enjoyed it very much. I guess I am just a little confused by all of this. I certainly do not plan to talk about any feelings i may or may not be having. When she said she was feeling close to me, right away I became a little nervous. Any thought, suggestions or speculation as to whats next. I really just want to be a friend to her.


She is being dishonest with you, or at least dishonest with herself. If all she wanted was a friend to feel close to and confide in (totally reasonable things), she should be doing that with another girl friend. The reason she is instead drawn to YOU, is probably not because you are a better friend than any of her girl friends could be. You're a guy, and she's craving positive male attention, affection and closeness, because she's not getting that at home. In other words - she is taking the first (and maybe second and third) steps toward having a full-blown emotional affair with you, whether she knows it or not.

I implore you to back way off from this. You don't want to get sucked into fulfilling the emotional needs she should be getting from her spouse. Even if he's a horrible person - this is not a responsibility you want to take on here. Yes, she's lonely, and yes, probably very unhappy. But let her seek emotional comfort from other women, or even other men, if she's hell-bent on it. What she's doing here is gross, and you don't want any part of it.


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## DoF

Are you a man?

If yes, you should not be talking to other women while married.

If not, you should respect her enough to know that ANY contact with a married woman is most likely inappropriate and disrespectful towards the marriage.

Cut her off......


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## PBear

As the others said... If you're a guy, back away. Nothing good can come of it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

She's admitted she feels more for you than friendship. And you think things will just go back to where they were? Not likely. Put some distance there and keep it.


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## DoF

These are the first steps to her cheating.

Actually, her just communicating with you CAN already be cheating.

if you were married, would you be ok with your wife to talk to other men the way she has with you?

In many relationships, that's a boundary/cheating.


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## EleGirl

This is called an EA (emotional affair). You are at the very start of one. You are both being slowly sucked in. EA's lead to PA's (physical affairs.

You need to tell her that your friendship is inappropriate. She needs to find a counselor to talk with about her marriage and resolve her marital problems with out you.

Are you married?


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## Satya

Agreed with the above post that she should really be seeking out her girlfriends to talk with.

If she doesn't have any women friends, that'd be even more of a red flag.

The amount of time/energy she is spending talking to you about her crummy relationship, she could be actively talking to her husband and actually doing something to help fix it.

My suggestion... make yourself unavailable. This in itself would amount to being a good friend.


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## Soveryalone

I am male yes. I am not married no. She is a really good friend of mine, i do care about her deeply and really want her to be happy in her marriage. Cutting her off seems the logical thing to do, but i would truly miss her friendship. it did get very intense last week i am not going to lie, and i sorta just did my best to just be a friend and be appropriate. ( she lives about 1-2 hours from me) so its not like we are going to be close to each other , for real. But last week she was talking so much about how she felt (* about me ) and she started talking about sexual things, and well it sort of spiraled out of control. 

Yes i think of her as a dear friend and I really want to support her the best i can. I guess just walking away from the friendship makes sense, however I just wonder if last week was just a mistake on her part, if perhaps she was just confused about how she was feeling for me ( she didnt seem very confused at all though) So even though we are being casual, i am still thinking about last week and how close it got, i wonder if she is thinking about that as well. Honestly its all i can think about when her and I are talking.


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## Soveryalone

She does have plenty of female friends, many people to talk to


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## richie33

Step back from the friendship. You don't need the drama of her bad marriage.


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## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> I am male yes. I am not married no. She is a really good friend of mine, i do care about her deeply and really want her to be happy in her marriage. Cutting her off seems the logical thing to do, but i would truly miss her friendship. it did get very intense last week i am not going to lie, and i sorta just did my best to just be a friend and be appropriate. ( she lives about 1-2 hours from me) so its not like we are going to be close to each other , for real. But last week she was talking so much about how she felt (* about me ) and she started talking about sexual things, and well it sort of spiraled out of control.
> 
> Yes i think of her as a dear friend and I really want to support her the best i can. I guess just walking away from the friendship makes sense, however I just wonder if last week was just a mistake on her part, if perhaps she was just confused about how she was feeling for me ( she didnt seem very confused at all though) So even though we are being casual, i am still thinking about last week and how close it got, i wonder if she is thinking about that as well. Honestly its all i can think about when her and I are talking.


Personally I don't believe in male/female friendships. But that's just me.

If you want to be a good friend, tell her to post on this forum and we can help her with marriage issues.

Meanwhile, break things off. If you are looking for someone special, having a female friend will prevent you from doing so anyways (from women that you want anyways).

Would you ever date/get into serious relationship with a woman that has male friends/hangs out with them? 



PS. You look familiar, and notice you live in my state too. Small world.


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## Soveryalone

DoF said:


> Personally I don't believe in male/female friendships. But that's just me.
> 
> If you want to be a good friend, tell her to post on this forum and we can help her with marriage issues.
> 
> Meanwhile, break things off. If you are looking for someone special, having a female friend will prevent you from doing so anyways (from women that you want anyways).
> 
> Would you ever date/get into serious relationship with a woman that has male friends/hangs out with them?
> 
> 
> 
> PS. You look familiar, and notice you live in my state too. Small world.


Not sure which state you live in I had forgotten to update my current state  which is Connecticut !! And to answer your question I am not sure i would date someone with mostly male friends, the whole male /female friendship thing gets a little blurry a little too often imo, i agree with you, not sure people in relationships/ married people should develop new friendships with members of the opposite sex


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## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> Not sure which state you live in I had forgotten to update my current state  which is Connecticut !!


Yep, same here.



Soveryalone said:


> And to answer your question I am not sure i would date someone with mostly male friends, the whole male /female friendship thing gets a little blurry a little too often imo, i agree with you, not sure people in relationships/ married people should develop new friendships with members of the opposite sex


Is it possible? Sure

Do I recommend it? NEVER

Based on my experiance and watching my male friends. I believe in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

I have a feeling you will be able to relate too hehe....

There are always exceptions to those rules, but for majority of people I would say DO NOT attempt.

It's inappropriate and disrespectful towards her marriage to be even communicating with you. ESPECIALLY to share intimate details of her marriage and get into sexual conversations.

Around these ways they call that Emotional Cheating.

I also want to applaud you for being a strong man and a proper friend and not jumping into bed with this woman. Safe to say MOST man wouldn't pass up this chance. 

Very smart!


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## Soveryalone

I guess having only female friends isn't such a good thing after all  I have noticed some potential romances start to sour when i start talking about my friends, sigh, all of whom are female
I am really not good at this whole dating/ getting to know someone stage, i guess i need more time , over 1 year out of a 12 year relationship.. oh well, i guess i need to be patient, thought i was ready maybe not, who knows


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## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> I guess having only female friends isn't such a good thing after all  I have noticed some potential romances start to sour when i start talking about my friends, sigh, all of whom are female
> I am really not good at this whole dating/ getting to know someone stage, i guess i need more time , over 1 year out of a 12 year relationship.. oh well, i guess i need to be patient, thought i was ready maybe not, who knows


Well, if you like and enjoy female friends....don't let me stop you.

If you are happy and having fun, and not looking for long term relationship.......go nuts/have fun!!!

Just don't wreck any marriages or even bother with those that are involved/have special someone. It will always cause friction and you probably don't want the drama.


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## Faeleaf

DoF said:


> Personally I don't believe in male/female friendships. But that's just me.
> 
> If you want to be a good friend, tell her to post on this forum and we can help her with marriage issues.
> 
> Meanwhile, break things off. If you are looking for someone special, having a female friend will prevent you from doing so anyways (from women that you want anyways).
> 
> Would you ever date/get into serious relationship with a woman that has male friends/hangs out with them?


This just confuses me. Maybe things are really different where you live - more conservative?

My husband I have close friends of both genders. These are people we genuinely care about, and spend time with both together and separately, depending on the situation. It is not unusual for me to spend time alone with the males or for him to spend time alone with the females, etc, though usually we are all together. These are very real friendships and mean a great deal to us. 

We also have friends that we don't share, of both genders. I mean when I say this - they are zero threat to the marriage. We are intensely loyal to each other and our friends know it. As an example, once a female friend called my husband "sweetie," (she was not flirting, it was just part of her banter and they were joking around at the time) and he hopped right on that and shut it down, saying a bit severely, "I have a sweetie, and it's not you." She apologized and they went right back to the game they were playing together. 

I'm not saying this kind of arrangement could work for every couple, but it works just fine for us. We are so high up on each others' priority list that it really doesn't matter who #2 is. 

That said, I stand by my earlier advice on this matter. The OP's friend is well over the line with him. He needs to either FIRMLY revert the friendship back to it's previous casual place, or if he can't do that, cut her off completely. I think the best solution would probably be the latter, as I think it's clear she already has inappropriate feelings of attachment to her friend.


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## DoF

Faeleaf said:


> This just confuses me. Maybe things are really different where you live - more conservative?
> 
> My husband I have close friends of both genders. These are people we genuinely care about, and spend time with both together and separately, depending on the situation. It is not unusual for me to spend time alone with the males or for him to spend time alone with the females, etc, though usually we are all together. These are very real friendships and mean a great deal to us.
> 
> We also have friends that we don't share, of both genders. I mean when I say this - they are zero threat to the marriage. We are intensely loyal to each other and our friends know it. As an example, once a female friend called my husband "sweetie," (she was not flirting, it was just part of her banter and they were joking around at the time) and he hopped right on that and shut it down, saying a bit severely, "I have a sweetie, and it's not you." She apologized and they went right back to the game they were playing together.
> 
> I'm not saying this kind of arrangement could work for every couple, but it works just fine for us. We are so high up on each others' priority list that it really doesn't matter who #2 is.
> 
> That said, I stand by my earlier advice on this matter. The OP's friend is well over the line with him. He needs to either FIRMLY revert the friendship back to it's previous casual place, or if he can't do that, cut her off completely. I think the best solution would probably be the latter, as I think it's clear she already has inappropriate feelings of attachment to her friend.


If it works for you and you guys are happy, that's all that matters. More power to you.


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## Soveryalone

I have always felt closer to women, than i ever did with any of my male friends over the years ( I am 38 yrs old) , in my experience women tend to be much more thoughtful, kind and compassionate in comparison to all my male friends over the years. I talk to my best male friend, known him 25 years, we might talk twice a year on the phone, and talk to my friend Alicia, mostly all day every day, and we have for months ( its not as frequent now though) but we for sure talk at least once/ twice a day/ night currently. 

Anyways my married friend just asked what i was doing tonight and i replied " just staying in , yes i know so lame" and she said nope not lame, and i said i was very much content just staying at home talking to her,and that talking to her as friends (of course) was really fun for me... i also said how i actually got used to just staying in being in a long term relationship for 12 years and i said i was pretty much content being home most of the time and she replied by saying how she likes to go out now and then but mostly loves just being at home. I need to sprint away from this, asap, really !!


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## soccermom2three

She probably wouldn't be in a loveless marriage if she put as much energy in her marriage as she is putting in trying to have an affair with you.


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## Soveryalone

DoF said:


> It's inappropriate and disrespectful towards her marriage to be even communicating with you. ESPECIALLY to share intimate details of her marriage and get into sexual conversations.
> 
> *Sorry she does not talk about her marriage at all, no details, at all, she is just vague, says she is unhappy, in a loveless marriage and hopes one day it will be better. She isnt in love with him and he is mean to her and drinks a lot, so i worry about her.*
> 
> *Well once she started saying she was feeling really close to me, and that she started to have feelings for me, i sorta knew where the conversation might lead, it went from her feeling close and went from there, i think the more apprehensive i was in the conversation the more she was sort of taking control. It went from 0-150 miles per hour in a second, when she said she felt close to me and then revealed she was having feelings for me, i was sorta uncertain what to say. I was caught in the middle of being 1) male 2) trying to be a friend 3) not exactly sure how to react.. now granted this was just talk, but it felt extremely intense, and very much a preview of what may come in her mind, who knows. We are both going overboard now to keep it very casual, very much friendly, but I am positive she is thinking the exact same thing as i am- she is thinking "i wonder if he forgot about last week and everything that was said"*
> 
> Around these ways they call that Emotional Cheating.
> 
> I also want to applaud you for being a strong man and a proper friend and not jumping into bed with this woman. Safe to say MOST man wouldn't pass up this chance.
> 
> *Heh, Ye i am not the average male ( yes we all say this, but in this case its the truth ). I respect all those who are in relationships/ marriages, i really do take those things seriously, and trust me i know how deeply an EA can hurt, i had to watch my EX of 12 years fall in love with someone 3 hours away ( on facebook, on the phone, however else they talked) anyways i had to watch her fall in love with someone else right in front of my own eyes, so believe me i know how much it can hurt..*
> 
> Very smart!


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## EleGirl

She's having an emotional affair with you. With the amount of time you two spend talking, that's pretty clear. You may want to ignore the fact that this is going on... but it is.

She needs to settle her marriage. Having you to fill her emotional needs makes it easy for her live with her husband. It's like you let the pressure off her marriage. 

Would you have an romantic relationship with her if she left her husband?


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## soccermom2three

You do realize that married people that want an affair always talk crap about their spouse. Men say their wife isn't giving them sex and women say their husbands abuse them.


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## Philat

This is how EA's start. I don't know that you have to cut off this friend completely, especially if you had an "appropriate" friendship in the past before she ratcheted it up. But I would tell her you are not comfortable with discussing her marriage difficulties, and indeed are not comfortable discussing anything with her that you would not discuss if her husband were present.


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## clipclop2

Are you going to assert your boundaries and state that you are not interested in an affair with s married woman and that if she does not respect this you will end the friendship? 

And those boundaries include her not talking to you about her marriage.

I think this fruit is tainted though. You already know she is interested. Keeping her around will always be a source of temptation. Easy sex. And dont give me nonsense about her being two hours away. That's one hour if you meet in the middle. That is nothing. Even two hours is nothing.


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## Soveryalone

EleGirl said:


> She's having an emotional affair with you. With the amount of time you two spend talking, that's pretty clear. You may want to ignore the fact that this is going on... but it is.
> 
> She needs to settle her marriage. Having you to fill her emotional needs makes it easy for her live with her husband. It's like you let the pressure off her marriage.
> 
> Would you have an romantic relationship with her if she left her husband?


Yes... I agree her and I do talk quite a bit and I just reread a Skype conversation her and I had and honestly it took my breath away, I am shocked by some of the things that were said, and honestly I feel guilty for not just saying goodbye the moment it started to get intense. I agree with you, you needs to get marriage settled and not spend time talking with me, ( this is all so bizarre to me because all of our mutual friends know her, and most of them know she is unhappy and in a loveless marriage, but this all really came out of the blue and all happened so fast.. 

Would I have a romantic relationship with her if she was single ? 

If from now on it was really just a friendship thing with her, and on her own terms she decided to get divorced , I suppose I would consider it yes, however the issue is this, what has been said , has already been said, everything is on the table so to speak. Whether she talks a certain way to me or not, the fact is I know she wants to and just feels horrible and guilty because of what she feels. I am just glad I am single, really 
She is really an amazing person, she possesses all the qualities I am looking for and is extremely attractive in every way possible. We have not ever gone beyond talking, and it wont happen, however my heart does go out to her, she is hoping that things in her marriage will change and is really putting forth effort to make it happen. I think everything with me just sorta came out of nowhere for her, she wasn't expecting any of this. (yes I know that's been said before but honestly sometimes for whatever reason people come together and bond/ connect ) it happens I think what stops it from being total chaos is not letting it get physical, anyways those are my two cents.


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## Soveryalone

clipclop2 said:


> Are you going to assert your boundaries and state that you are not interested in an affair with s married woman and that if she does not respect this you will end the friendship?
> 
> And those boundaries include her not talking to you about her marriage.
> 
> I think this fruit is tainted though. You already know she is interested. Keeping her around will always be a source of temptation. Easy sex. And dont give me nonsense about her being two hours away. That's one hour if you meet in the middle. That is nothing. Even two hours is nothing.


Yes I am going to talk to her about boundaries the next time we do talk, although I am not sure that is really necessary, because I think what happened a few days back was an isolated incident and wont be happening again. I do care for her quite a bit and really do want her to be happy, but I cannot be her emotional fallback, no way ( although it seems like I already am)

She actually has said VERY little about her marriage other than, he is mean to her, has a drinking problem, she hates when he is home, their marriage is loveless ( I guess thinking about that's saying a whole lot)

I agree that the fruit is already tainted. She spends so much time talking to me, from the moment she wakes up, there was the whole incident several days back when she just literally went from 0-100 mph in terms of talking about her feelings for me. This was all such a shock to me, part of me wonders or maybe wants this all to just be a joke, however based on how our friendship used to be she had a millions chances to " play games" if that was her goal. Not this matters but I am 38 and she is 32. I am really bad at cutting people out of my life... I don't have that many people who are close to me and I appreciate each and every friend that I have. Anyways, we shall see what happens. I am going to take advice from everyone here, and put it into action.


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## GusPolinski

Back. The. F*ck. Off.

Period.


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## clipclop2

do you are already in love with her.

You don't want to break ties with her and you want her two want u win this way: 

or you are being incredibly naive.

No way can you be her friend and not compromise her marriage 

every time you agree that this is wrong you then follow up with how great she is and sort of find ways to try to minimize the situation. You are bargaining.


you state what you know is true that the situation is wrong and yet you follow up with wanting to help her and how much u liked her and all that good stuff. You are a danger to her marriage and my opinion is maintaining any relationship with her is going to harm her marriage further and draw you into physically cheating. like it or not you are already in the middle of an emotional affair where you are actually participating. 

this is a perfect example of how easily emotional affairs happen. You don't even notice and they smack you in the head.

should do the gentlemanly thing and break all contact with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

You know what ?? In my previous relationship which lasted 12 years , when she started to fall in love with someone else ... and I did the gentlemanly thing to do, and wished her all the best in the world ,but I was not going to just sit there and watch her fully fall in love with someone else... So in terms of me doing the right thing, or being a gentleman .... trust me I am one of the most honest and sincere people you will ever meet. I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....


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## spunkycat08

Soveryalone said:


> You know what ?? In my previous relationship which lasted 12 years , when she started to fall in love with someone else ... and I did the gentlemanly thing to do, and wished her all the best in the world ,but I was not going to just sit there and watch her fully fall in love with someone else... So in terms of me doing the right thing, or being a gentleman .... trust me I am one of the most honest and sincere people you will ever meet. I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....


So you are an honest and sincere guy yet you want to pursue a married woman because after all, if in your heart if it feels right and feels warm and fuzzy, you would like to see where that leads?

*That **is not* honest to me, and I am married.

This is selfish behavior.


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## spunkycat08

Soveryalone said:


> You know what ?? In my previous relationship which lasted 12 years , when she started to fall in love with someone else ... and I did the gentlemanly thing to do, and wished her all the best in the world ,but I was not going to just sit there and watch her fully fall in love with someone else... So in terms of me doing the right thing, or being a gentleman .... trust me I am one of the most honest and sincere people you will ever meet. I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....


OP:

Exactly what type of responses were you wanting and expecting to get from the other members?

Exactly why did you post this particular reply?


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## spunkycat08

OP:

If you are really her friend, you would not want to steal her away from her husband regardless of the state of her marriage. I do not tolerate that behavior from anyone, male or female.

Whose happiness is more important? Hers or yours?

She needs to divorce him before pursuing you, and you need to wait for that to happen.


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## spunkycat08

OP:

Questions for you to think about...


Be mindful of the fact that you are not happy with your own self and are likely to have low self worth to be with someone who is in a relationship. Therefore, make an active effort to self introspect what you are not happy with about you and each day choose one small step you can take for your self growth to feel better about you. If you feel good about you, in turn you will make healthy choices. If you are whole you will choose someone who is also whole.

Choose to control yourself. Decide that you can find a committed woman attractive, but taking action on that shows you are not in control of self. We as humans are not impulsive animals we can choose to control our own self. A self talk technique that can help you with choosing to control yourself includes: “I want a woman who is a match for me, not who is matched with another. I deserve ‘pure true love’ not manipulated love.”

Be honest with yourself that a choice to be with another who is in a relationship says only negative things about you. A few examples of the negative things being with someone who is in a committed relationship says about you includes; a) you are de-valuing who you are as a human being, as a male, b) you have a lack of caring, compassion, and empathy for others, c) you have a lack of interest in finding a true connected relationship with a woman that will lead to true happiness.

Recognize the odds. Typically mate poaching relationships do not end well. Therefore, choose to see what it feels like to be with a woman who is available and choose to allow yourself the gift of enjoying that.


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## NextTimeAround

spunkycat08 said:


> OP:
> 
> Questions for you to think about...
> 
> 
> * Be mindful of the fact that you are not happy with your own self* and are likely to have low self worth to be with someone who is in a relationship. Therefore, make an active effort to self introspect what you are not happy with about you and each day choose one small step you can take for your self growth to feel better about you. If you feel good about you, in turn you will make healthy choices. If you are whole you will choose someone who is also whole.
> 
> Choose to control yourself. Decide that you can find a committed woman attractive, but taking action on that shows you are not in control of self. We as humans are not impulsive animals we can choose to control our own self. A self talk technique that can help you with choosing to control yourself includes: “I want a woman who is a match for me, not who is matched with another. I deserve ‘pure true love’ not manipulated love.”
> 
> Be honest with yourself that a choice to be with another who is in a relationship says only negative things about you. A few examples of the negative things being with someone who is in a committed relationship says about you includes; a) you are de-valuing who you are as a human being, as a male, b) you have a lack of caring, compassion, and empathy for others, c) you have a lack of interest in finding a true connected relationship with a woman that will lead to true happiness.
> 
> Recognize the odds. Typically mate poaching relationships do not end well. Therefore, choose to see what it feels like to be with a woman who is available and choose to allow yourself the gift of enjoying that.


YEah, especially when calls himself "soveryalone."


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## happy as a clam

SVA...

You stated this:



> *We have not ever gone beyond talking*, and it wont happen...


Yes you have. You basically had PHONE SEX (or Skype Sex, call it whatever you like) with a MARRIED woman.

You are the exact kind of beta-male that other men CAN'T STAND. You swoop in to a troubled woman's marriage to be the "nice guy" that her husband can't or won't be, "the strong shoulder" for her to lean on, the one who helps "talk her through her problems", *as friends only*, of course. You're just a "nice guy" waiting in the wings.

*I call BS.* You're full of sh*t if you think you're "just friends" and that you would NEVER let it turn physical.

You are having an emotional affair with ANOTHER MAN'S WIFE. How good can you possibly feel about yourself knowing that?

The best thing that could happen right now is that OW's husband finds your Skype chat and pays you a visit. I bet that would tidy things up real quick in your little fantasy "friendship."

Sorry if this is harsh but your thread really makes me angry, in case you can't tell.


----------



## spunkycat08

Soveryalone said:


> I am male yes. I am not married no. She is a really good friend of mine, i do care about her deeply and really want her to be happy in her marriage. Cutting her off seems the logical thing to do, but i would truly miss her friendship. it did get very intense last week i am not going to lie, and i sorta just did my best to just be a friend and be appropriate. ( she lives about 1-2 hours from me) so its not like we are going to be close to each other , for real. *But last week she was talking so much about how she felt (* about me ) and she started talking about sexual things, and well it sort of spiraled out of control. *
> 
> Yes i think of her as a dear friend and I really want to support her the best i can. I guess just walking away from the friendship makes sense, however I just wonder if last week was just a mistake on her part, if perhaps she was just confused about how she was feeling for me ( she didn't seem very confused at all though) So even though we are being casual, i am still thinking about last week and how close it got, i wonder if she is thinking about that as well. Honestly its all i can think about when her and I are talking.


Regarding the bolded part in pink...

And you did nothing to stop this conversation?

Both of you are in the wrong.


----------



## spunkycat08

happy as a clam said:


> SVA...
> 
> You stated this:
> 
> Yes you have. You basically had PHONE SEX (or Skype Sex, call it whatever you like) with a MARRIED woman.
> 
> You are the exact kind of beta-male that other men CAN'T STAND. You swoop in to a troubled woman's marriage to be the "nice guy" that her husband can't or won't be, "the strong shoulder" for her to lean on, the one who helps "talk her through her problems", *as friends only*, of course. You're just a "nice guy" waiting in the wings.
> 
> *I call BS.* You're full of sh*t if you think you're "just friends" and that you would NEVER let it turn physical.
> 
> You are having an emotional affair with ANOTHER MAN'S WIFE. How good can you possibly feel about yourself knowing that?
> 
> The best thing that could happen right now is that OW's husband finds your Skype chat and pays you a visit. I bet that would tidy things up real quick in your little fantasy "friendship."
> 
> Sorry if this is harsh but your thread really makes me angry, in case you can't tell.


You are not the only one who feels this way.

I do not tolerate this type of behavior from anyone... male or female.

A female friend of my husband called our home phone last year. She left a message on our answering machine asking him to call her. So he did. He spoke to her twice. Turns out her fiance broke up with her. She was in a long distance relationship. My husband gave her some encouraging words. He let her know that he was married. She told him that she would not do anything to cause problems in his marriage. Then she called the following night. He was busy on his computer, and so he ignored her call. She never left a message on our answering machine. Our home phone also has caller id. She continued to call after that, but she never left any messages on our answering machine. She finally stopped calling after a couple of weeks. I do not know why she continued to call, but if she wanted a shoulder to cry on, his shoulder was not the one for her to cry on.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Soveryalone said:


> I guess having only female friends isn't such a good thing after all  I have noticed some potential romances start to sour when i start talking about my friends, sigh, all of whom are female
> I am really not good at this whole dating/ getting to know someone stage, i guess i need more time , over 1 year out of a 12 year relationship.. oh well, i guess i need to be patient, thought i was ready maybe not, who knows


Having only female friends makes you look too beta. And if you are generous with your female friends, many of them will fight tooth and nail against your having a girlfriend because they won't want to lose that generosity.

of course, you would never notice it. You would tell your date what a great friend this or that woman is...... while this or that woman will take the chance to communicate -- verbally or non verbally who's boss when it comes to being in a relationship with you. If your date ever mentions it to you, you would deny everything..... because, of course, these women are your friends and they would never do anything so mean .......

that's the way it usually happens.

Women know it's an uphill battle. I hope of those women thatyou realised had made a decision to pass on the type of lifestyle that you have chosen, you did not choose to call them "jealous and insecure." they actually made a very smart decision.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Faeleaf said:


> This just confuses me. Maybe things are really different where you live - more conservative?
> 
> My husband I have close friends of both genders. These are people we genuinely care about, and spend time with both together and separately, depending on the situation. It is not unusual for me to spend time alone with the males or for him to spend time alone with the females, etc, though usually we are all together. These are very real friendships and mean a great deal to us.
> 
> We also have friends that we don't share, of both genders. I mean when I say this - they are zero threat to the marriage. We are intensely loyal to each other and our friends know it. As an example, once a female friend called my husband "sweetie," (she was not flirting, it was just part of her banter and they were joking around at the time) and he hopped right on that and shut it down, saying a bit severely, "I have a sweetie, and it's not you." She apologized and they went right back to the game they were playing together.
> 
> I'm not saying this kind of arrangement could work for every couple, but it works just fine for us. We are so high up on each others' priority list that it really doesn't matter who #2 is.
> 
> That said, I stand by my earlier advice on this matter. The OP's friend is well over the line with him. He needs to either FIRMLY revert the friendship back to it's previous casual place, or if he can't do that, cut her off completely. I think the best solution would probably be the latter, as I think it's clear she already has inappropriate feelings of attachment to her friend.


I used to think like you did during my first marriage. But sadly, not everyone plays fair. the pattern that I saw, was that as soon as a female friend felt secure in contacting my husband, I became nothing more than appendage that my husband carried around had to be tolerated.

These days, IMO, every woman who wants contact with my partner is guilty as charged. My relationship with my SO is far too important to give anyone a chance to wreck it. If some woman doesn't like the fact that after she wastes my time getting to know me, she can't call my husband directly, well, too bad. Go find some other relationship to divide and conquer.

Life is way to short to turn your life into some public social science lab..... for everyone else's benefit.


----------



## Soveryalone

I really do appreciate all the replies, and as far as my name 
SoVeryalone goes , I created this account shortly after the end of a 12 year relationship, and felt exactly that , So very alone. I have struggled through the last year + and have come to a somewhat peaceful place. I have relied on people from this site, and other friends from various places to get through. I want to stress that I am not pursuing my married friend at all. I realize that last week when things sort of changed I should have just stopped it, I know this, but I think I just convinced myself it was not a big deal because the conversation was on Skype. I do feel badly I didn't just stop it, but I know now based on everything people are saying that I need to really stress a friendship to her, and if it starts to change again , that I need to take a break/ stop communicating. 

I am sorry if people who are reading this thread have a bad opinion of me, or think that I am a bad person who lacks morals. I think my friend and I were both in the wrong. I think that we can either just back away from each other, or keep it very much friendly. We didn't have phone sex, or Skype sex, we just discussed it for a short time and it sort of got out of hand, and I will always regret not stopping it. I don't think too much damage has been done, and I think I can still be there to support her as a friend. She was very supportive to me and nothing but a friend for a long time prior to this, and I feel like I owe her the same. I don't like shutting people out of my life, especially people who really have been there for me. 

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have read each and taking them all to heart.


----------



## Soveryalone

So just to clear things up , this married friend and I have been friends for some time now. She has tried so hard to work on her marriage, she has pushed for them to get counseling, he refuses, she has pushed for him to get help with his drinking, he doesn't think he has a problem. She really has tried and tried to make things work, and she had one conversation with me where she revealed she felt close to me, and because I didn't stop the conversation dead in its tracks, that makes us both horrible people? I am not getting defensive, I love to be as open and honest on this site as possible , and am very much open minded about the feedback I receive. But based on many of the replies, it is as if my married friend and I have been seeing one another, in person having a full out sexual /physical affair for years now, and that's so far from the truth... 

We had one conversation that got intense, about feelings , and then that turned into inappropriate sexual talk, and that's the extent of it. I know that logically everyone who has replied is correct, that this is the start of an emotional affair, but its really difficult to see that from my point of view. I am just a polite, supportive friend to her, and its what she needs right now. We are going to talk tonight and figure some things out, and based on that conversation I will decide whether or not to walk away from what was a truly amazing and supportive friendship. 

I know marriage is a very much black and white concept , people are married ( and they are not an option for anyone other than their spouse) or they aren't married and they are an option for everyone  But in this case She is just someone who has tried and tried to make things work, and we all know sometimes things just don't work out. I guess many people on this site view infidelity as very much black and white concept as well, and even having a brief conversation about sex with someone who is married is considered cheating by many. Are there any married women out there who can identify with how my friend feels in terms of really working on their marriage with no success and leaning on a male friend for support, attention?


----------



## GusPolinski

Blah blah blah blah blah.

Why do you feel the need for anyone here to be OK w/ what you're doing? Do you actually believe that you're going to convince any of us that involving yourself w/ a married woman is acceptable? If you didn't have feelings for her, didn't yearn for a romantic connection w/ her, and could advise her as a neutral party w/ no conflict of interest, that'd be one thing... but you do, you do, and you can't, so you shouldn't. Period. _And you know that._ Anything and everything that you say to the contrary is nothing more than a big ball of rampant justification and rationalization. You're going to wear that poor hamster out.

But hey, whatever. You're doing to do what you want regardless of what anyone here says, and regardless of how wrong you know it is. So just do whatever.

Don't think that you're doing this woman any favors, though. Just make sure that you do her husband a favor and send him here once he finds out just how "supportive" you're being of his wife and his marriage.


----------



## NextTimeAround

SVA, how well do you know her husband?


----------



## jld

GusPolinski said:


> Don't think that you're doing this woman any favors, though.


:iagree:


----------



## soccermom2three

How do you know what she's telling you is the entire truth? There's his side if the story too.


----------



## Entropy3000

Soveryalone said:


> Recently a married friend of mine and i have been talking quite a bit. She is very private so she doesn't share much about her marriage, just little bits and pieces. Last week or so the talking changed, it started to get intense, she started talking about feelings she was having and the conversation quickly turned into something else all together. I kept telling her that I respected her and her marriage very much. She told me she was feeling guilty because of how close she feels to me. I really don't know what to do. She did pull back a bit and we didn't speak for a day or so, but now we are talking pretty much throughout the day. We are both avoiding talking about what happened last week, in terms of the feelings she was having, we are very much casual now, just how was your day etc.
> 
> She has said she is in a loveless marriage, she doesn't seem happy, and i just want to be there for her as a friend, to support her best i can, because she has done the same for me. I asked her if she was OK with how much time we spend talking together, she said she was fine with and enjoyed it very much. I guess I am just a little confused by all of this. I certainly do not plan to talk about any feelings i may or may not be having. When she said she was feeling close to me, right away I became a little nervous. Any thought, suggestions or speculation as to whats next. I really just want to be a friend to her.


This is an EA. It may or may not have been a loveless marriage before this.

You need to break off this relationship. Go complete NC. ... forever.


----------



## Soveryalone

Ok I get it this was a huge mistake, and I do feel very guilty for my part in it. So her and I can't even try to keep it friendly ? Its really at the point where we should just stop talking? In the past when I have tried this , the not talking leads to stronger feelings. I am NOT romantically interested in my married friend at all. She is a good friend to me and that's it. I guess what everyone is saying is that because she has made it clear to me that she does think of me in a romantic way that I should do the right thing and just bail out of the situation completely ?


----------



## Soveryalone

soccermom2three said:


> How do you know what she's telling you is the entire truth? There's his side if the story too.


I don't know she is telling the entire truth, you are absolutely correct. I do trust her though and based on everything she has shared with me, nothing seems too outlandish to be the actual truth. Mind you she really hasn't shared much and has never gone into details. From mutual friends I do know she shares with them what she has with me, that her husband is mean and controlling and has a drinking problem, not to mention from what she says completely detached and disconnected from their marriage and its been this way for years, years before me as a matter of fact. Yes of course there is his side to the story, and I am sure he may have a totally different perspective on their marriage, but he doesn't share his thoughts with her about anything not to mention their marriage.


----------



## GusPolinski

How many times are you going to ask the same questions -- while expecting different answers to them -- over and over and over again?


----------



## soccermom2three

Why is it SO important for you to be friends with her? Is it because it makes you feel good when she tells you what a great guy you are for listening to her problems?


----------



## clipclop2

If you are so honorable tell her husband what went on and that you have developed feelings for her and ask him to do the "gentlemanly thing"and step aside.

Then nursing your broken nose, slink back under the rock she drew you out of and understand that you... YOU... crossed the line. And you continue to want to.

No. You cannot be friends with her.

As a said, trained fruit.

Her marriage is more important than your so called friendship, don't you think?

Do you think doing this to another man somehow makes up for what was done to you? Cause your girlfriend didn't fall in with someone else. She cheated on you.

CHEATED.

And now you in your gentlemanly heart want to see where this leads because after all, it is nobody's fault.

This is weakness and cowardice. If you follow thorough with this friendship it is YOUR FAULT.

and I hope you come out with a bloody nose, no friends and a realization you aren't such a great guy and actually heal from being cheated on instead of passing the favor along to someone else.


----------



## spunkycat08

Yeah...

The OP is not getting the answers he wants. 

The OP seems to have the attitude of "do what makes you happy" regardless of the consequences.

There are 3 people in this triangle. Someone *will *get hurt, and it *will not* be pretty.

There are 2 sides to every story. But... he is only getting one side.

This *will not* end well.


----------



## spunkycat08

OP:

What part of *no *do you 1) *not *understand or 2) *not *want to get?


----------



## Soveryalone

clipclop2 said:


> If you are so honorable tell her husband what went on and that you have developed feelings for her and ask him to do the "gentlemanly thing"and step aside.
> 
> Then nursing your broken nose, slink back under the rock she drew you out of and understand that you... YOU... crossed the line. And you continue to want to.
> 
> No. You cannot be friends with her.
> 
> As a said, trained fruit.
> 
> Her marriage is more important than your so called friendship, don't you think?
> 
> Do you think doing this to another man somehow makes up for what was done to you? Cause your girlfriend didn't fall in with someone else. She cheated on you.
> 
> CHEATED.
> 
> And now you in your gentlemanly heart want to see where this leads because after all, it is nobody's fault.
> 
> This is weakness and cowardice. If you follow thorough with this friendship it is YOUR FAULT.
> 
> and I hope you come out with a bloody nose, no friends and a realization you aren't such a great guy and actually heal from being cheated on instead of passing the favor along to someone else.


And the sad part about this entire situation is that I NEVER once pushed the limits of this friendship, I saw the lines and remained wayyyyy far back , never even once flirting with her, showing her and her marriage nothing but the utmost respect, I was nothing but a friend and according to her I was the ONLY male friend of hers to treat her with respect. And why does it feel like I am the only one to blame here? Are people reading this thread really ignoring the fact that I was really not an active participant here... I was at a loss what to do, and the very minor minor incident happened ( typing on Skype briefly about sex) and it was very brief because I think we both knew it was wrong. In terms of her talking to me about her feelings , I did not reciprocate. I feel like I am being judged harshly here and I think there is a great deal of transference going on here... I made an error in judgment here, nothing more nothing less


----------



## NextTimeAround

If you allow something to happen then you are as much to blame as the instigator. These conversations with this friend need to be closed down.

So, okay, now you know how toxic these kinds of conversations with married opposite sex friends are, then you need to close them down when she tries it on.

The reason why I say that they are unhealthy is because in these kinds of situations, not everyone plays fair. 

It appears that you know absolutely nothing about the husband, so that's a red flag right there. You don't know whether she is telling you the truth about her relationship with her husband. the less you know about him, the less you are able to validate anything she says.

You also don't know what she really wants. She could be looking for a fling. and if you don't give it to her, she could accuse you of leading her on; tell her husband AND your friends in common.

You could fall in love with her when all she is looking for is an exit affair.

If you decide to date other women, she may do everything she can to torpedo your efforts.

I say all this because the type of person who is doing what she is doing is usually very selfish and very manipulative. common goals, values, mutual respect, gain are out the window.

She wants what she wants when she wants it.

what's in it for you to hear her criticise her husband? or let her talk about her sexual fantasies?


----------



## Soveryalone

There is literally nothing in this for me, at all. I have 0 expectations, the reason I started this thread was to get a dose of reality and I surely got just that. I don't have any delusions of grandeur here and I honestly and truly don't have any romantic feelings for her. Everything happened so quickly and I was not prepared ( nor did I have the emotional tools) to deal with what has happened in a proper and mature manner. 
And everyone is correct I don't know her husband at all, and putting myself in his position I would not want my wife ( if I was married) to spending this much time talking to another man. Its all a bit blurry to me, so as much as I do value her friendship, everyone is correct, walking away is the only option. And people can say what they want in terms of me respecting opinions on this site, but the truth is I do value and respect those who post on this site. This site practically saved my life countless times over the last year, post relationship with my ex..

I don't want to come across as someone who backtracks, but after serious thought , everyone is very much correct, and I know what I need to do.


----------



## GusPolinski

Beta orbiter going for low-hanging fruit. That is all.


----------



## happy as a clam

Soveryalone said:


> ...I do feel very guilty for my part in it.


Guilty enough to stop?



Soveryalone said:


> So her and I can't even try to keep it friendly?


*NO!!*



Soveryalone said:


> Its really at the point where we should just stop talking?


*YES!!*



Soveryalone said:


> I am NOT romantically interested in my married friend at all. She is a good friend to me and that's it.


Gosh SVA... let me think how many times I've had steamy, x-rated, *sexual conversations* with a MARRIED male "friend" who I am NOT romantically interested in... ummm, *NEVER!* If you're not interested in her in that way, is your point then to lead her on or delude yourself?!

Honestly, you really come across as a whiny beta male with all of these questions.


----------



## clipclop2

What do you mean this just happened to you? You didn't stop it. You are here posting things that shows your feelings for her. You want to be friends and see where this goes, remember ¿. It isn't your fault, right? etc.

Are you some kind of victim here or are you a man capable of saying and meaning no and enforcing boundaries by exiting the so called friendship? Because you are definitely not man enough to enforce them with her in your life. That's guaranteed.

Stop acting like some cry baby girl and accept the truth. 

Past that, stop lying to us, changing your story about how you feel about her and what happened.

We aren't idiots and we know exactly how this stuff happens.

You are bargaining. You know you are wrong but you don't want to do the right thing because it won't get you what you really want. So you are manufacturing excuses to keep this little EA going. 

Call her husband and tell him what you did.

Let him decide if this little innocent friendship should continue. Maybe he will tell you to have at her. Maybe he will divorce her cheating as s and you can have her. What a prize, too! Just the sort of woman you are looking for... A cheater. 

Whatever. You aren't any prize yourself.


----------



## SunnyT

* I don't know her husband at all, and putting myself in his position I would not want my wife ( if I was married) to spending this much time talking to another man.

This. 

THIS is all you need to know. THIS is how your last relationship ended. 

YOU should know better. 

Stoppit.*


----------



## spunkycat08

OP:

You are 38 years old.

You are *not *a teenager.

You *are *old enough to know better.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Soveryalone said:


> You know what ?? In my previous relationship which lasted 12 years , when she started to fall in love with someone else ... and I did the gentlemanly thing to do, and wished her all the best in the world ,but I was not going to just sit there and watch her fully fall in love with someone else... So in terms of me doing the right thing, or being a gentleman .... trust me I am one of the most honest and sincere people you will ever meet. I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....


It doesnt matter WHAT the hell your heart wants!It doesnt matter how hard it would be for you not to talk to her! The woman is married and you are out of line, and being completely selfish! Have more respect for her relationship than SHE does, and STOP IT NOW! 

Dammit this thread is triggering me! Frakking cheaters make my skin crawl....


----------



## Soveryalone

i need to clarify something that i wrote, I have backed off from my friend , as suggested by everyone here... when i said

I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....

I understand how this makes me look , but i need to make sure everyone knows that 1) i have cut off all contact with her 2) and down the road if she was to end up single and i was still single as well I would want to pursue things with her. I respect everything people have said on this thread and i took it all to heart. I am sorry if i was not clear about my intentions here. I understand why people reacted the way they did , after rereading my posts i would have reacted the same way. Anyways , have a nice week


----------



## Jellybeans

She has confessed feelings for you and you are talking like someone in an affair fog. 

Soveryalone - it is so nice to have a friend who we've known a long time be kind to us and share experiences with us, etc. So I totally get why you feel safe--because she has expressed a vulnerable side to you which makes you feel protective/happy, etc.

But you already know. Boundaries are completely essential in this situation. You are married and have a wife/family.


----------



## clipclop2

what did you tell her when you cut contact?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soveryalone

i told her i would always care for her deeply, but that i cared more about her life, and her marriage , and i didn't want her and i to come close to saying or doing anything inappropriate ever again. I said it was best that we just not talk, so lets see how the not talking goes, i have a really good idea of what will happen based on previous experiences ( with a very single friend of mine) . I just told her i cared for her, and told her i wanted her to work on her marriage and give all her effort and focus to it. I said i was a distraction, and i wasn't making things easy for her, and all the attention and focus she has been showing me needs to be focused on her husband and her marriage.

Jellybeans, no i am not married, and no children, my friend is married


----------



## clipclop2

What does see how not talking goes mean?

I bet one of you blows NC in a very short period. Your goodbye was very weak.


----------



## Soveryalone

Sorry my goodbye wasn't harsh enough. As difficult as it is for me to cut people out of my life when i make the choice to do so, i don't look back, so NC won't be an issue for me, at all.


----------



## clipclop2

I hope you're right but I also don't expect you to come tell us when she break no contact and you have a hard time letting her go again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EMZED

Wow, I can't say I agree with the general consensus here. There seems to be genuine caring and affection in this friendship. To me, a good friendship is a precious thing. It shouldn't be tossed out like yesterday's garbage at the first sign of conflict or trouble.

Ok, so you guys had a sketchy moment. Your friendship took a slightly sexual turn and neither of you (or at least you) didn't really want it to go there. I feel like you can come back from one sketchy messaging session.

As long as she is on board to avoid future sketchiness, you should try to stay friends! I would perhaps suggest cooling it a bit for a few months to ramp down the intensity of your connection. You could also try seeing each other exclusively in a group setting for awhile--it'll keep you both honest. Avoiding being alone together is going to make a big difference. Probably also cut out late-night messaging.

If you're being honest with yourself, you and your friend have been flirty for awhile, haven't you? You are interested in her. However, if you've just been flirty with each other, that's not a big deal. It is possible for flirtiness to escalate (and it looks like it did escalate a bit for you guys), but I know from experience that flirty habits can be broken. After a few months of not acting flirty, you'll have forgotten all about that part of your friendship.

Or possibly you won't, but I for one think it's worth a try. A good friendship is a terrible thing to waste. And if she's having trouble in her life, she's going to need friends.


----------



## NextTimeAround

EMZED said:


> Wow, I can't say I agree with the general consensus here. There seems to be genuine caring and affection in this friendship. To me, a good friendship is a precious thing. It shouldn't be tossed out like yesterday's garbage at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
> 
> Ok, so you guys had a sketchy moment. Your friendship took a slightly sexual turn and neither of you (or at least you) didn't really want it to go there. I feel like you can come back from one sketchy messaging session.
> 
> As long as she is on board to avoid future sketchiness, you should try to stay friends! I would perhaps suggest cooling it a bit for a few months to ramp down the intensity of your connection. You could also try seeing each other exclusively in a group setting for awhile--it'll keep you both honest. Avoiding being alone together is going to make a big difference. Probably also cut out late-night messaging.
> 
> If you're being honest with yourself, you and your friend have been flirty for awhile, haven't you? You are interested in her. However, if you've just been flirty with each other, that's not a big deal. It is possible for flirtiness to escalate (and it looks like it did escalate a bit for you guys), but I know from experience that flirty habits can be broken. After a few months of not acting flirty, you'll have forgotten all about that part of your friendship.
> 
> Or possibly you won't, but I for one think it's worth a try. A good friendship is a terrible thing to waste. And if she's having trouble in her life, she's going to need friends.


I hope you do realise that your post effectively says, that a "good" friendship trumps a marriage hands down. What's sad here is that people like you forget about the sacrifices that one makes to marriage, yet feels that any "friend" who comes in and out of that person's life somehow has greater and more important standing than the shadowy person that SVA knows nothing about.



As I told my (now) fiance, if he needed to keep "that woman" in his life as "just friends" then I want our relationship to be "downgraded" to just friends too. From what I could see, the "just" friend was getting free meals, free taxi rides, the ability to go and out fvck other men. She wasn't even expected to take time out of her otherwise busy schedule to entertain his parents when they came to visit. 

In exchange, she was asking about our sex life and giving him advice..... which I have to admit he acted upon. His age related "jokes" were inspired by her (she's 21 years younger than I.) 

After our talk, he cleared her completely out of his life. Anything less would have meant that I would date around just she like she was doing. 

Anyone who prioritises a friendship over their exclusive partner should never even consider getting married.


----------



## Soveryalone

EMZED said:


> Wow, I can't say I agree with the general consensus here. There seems to be genuine caring and affection in this friendship. To me, a good friendship is a precious thing. It shouldn't be tossed out like yesterday's garbage at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
> 
> Ok, so you guys had a sketchy moment. Your friendship took a slightly sexual turn and neither of you (or at least you) didn't really want it to go there. I feel like you can come back from one sketchy messaging session.
> 
> As long as she is on board to avoid future sketchiness, you should try to stay friends! I would perhaps suggest cooling it a bit for a few months to ramp down the intensity of your connection. You could also try seeing each other exclusively in a group setting for awhile--it'll keep you both honest. Avoiding being alone together is going to make a big difference. Probably also cut out late-night messaging.
> 
> If you're being honest with yourself, you and your friend have been flirty for awhile, haven't you? You are interested in her. However, if you've just been flirty with each other, that's not a big deal. It is possible for flirtiness to escalate (and it looks like it did escalate a bit for you guys), but I know from experience that flirty habits can be broken. After a few months of not acting flirty, you'll have forgotten all about that part of your friendship.
> 
> Or possibly you won't, but I for one think it's worth a try. A good friendship is a terrible thing to waste. And if she's having trouble in her life, she's going to need friends.


Thanks for this.. i truly wanted to be as honest as possible here on this thread and i really think much of what i said was not clear enough, I didn't really explain things properly. Contrary to what many of those who have replied to this thread think, I was not and never have been pursuing this married friend of mine. Yes i do think very highly of her, and there is a connection and a warmth to the friendship, but it remains just that in my eyes, a friendship. Sorry but most men out there if they had been in my situation would have already slept with this woman, i have done everything in my power to be respectful of her and her marriage. I did take the advice i received on this thread to heart and i did cut off communication with her, and the NC has remained intact for a couple days now.

I do agree with you though, I don't really think that just tossing her and the friendship away is the best option for me, but because she is married, i think its the best option for her. I do miss her she is one of my best friends and maybe i reacted with haste in this situation based on advice i received here which i do take to heart. But thanks for the posting, you seem to be standing alone with this opinion.


----------



## Soveryalone

clipclop2 said:


> I hope you're right but I also don't expect you to come tell us when she break no contact and you have a hard time letting her go again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is a dear friend to me, i have maybe 5 really close friends on this planet..... you are right i am having a hard time letting her go.. I realize that male / female relationships can get blurry at times, but sometimes a man and a woman , married or not can truly just be good friends, this is how i have always viewed this friendship with her. I do apologize if at any point in this thread did i give the impression that I had romantic feelings for her, because I don't.


----------



## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> i need to clarify something that i wrote, I have backed off from my friend , as suggested by everyone here... when i said
> 
> I am just uncertain right now what the right thing to do is... my mind says what most people are saying , run away in the other direction , but my heart is saying something completely different. I really don't believe people choose who they fall in love with, or when it happens or how quickly or slowly it develops. I don't really worry much about whether its a crush , or infatuation or whatever , I just sort go with it, if it feels right , and feels warm and fuzzy , I like to see where that leads.. I feel happiness with this married friend of mine, she makes me feel safe....
> 
> I understand how this makes me look , but i need to make sure everyone knows that 1) i have cut off all contact with her 2) and down the road if she was to end up single and i was still single as well I would want to pursue things with her. I respect everything people have said on this thread and i took it all to heart. I am sorry if i was not clear about my intentions here. I understand why people reacted the way they did , after rereading my posts i would have reacted the same way. Anyways , have a nice week


What part of the body is used for thinking?

It's not heart, that I can tell you.


----------



## Soveryalone

I have tried my best to live a pragmatic life, i really do try to approach every situation logically, however honestly I am a hopeless romantic at heart, and in situations involving people close to me / romantic interests/ platonic friends who i cherish, i do tend to TRY to think with my head, but in the end more often than not I listen to my heart . i let emotion control my decisions. This is exactly why i posted this thread... i was well aware I would receive some harsh criticism ( frankly its been more harsh than i predicted but lol ) but i wanted it, i wanted a dose of reality and i surely got that


----------



## Jellybeans

Soveryalone said:


> i have a really good idea of what will happen based on previous experiences ( with a very single friend of mine)


Meaning what?



Soveryalone said:


> I just told her i cared for her, and told her i wanted her to work on her marriage and give all her effort and focus to it. I said i was a distraction, and i wasn't making things easy for her, and all the attention and focus she has been showing me needs to be focused on her husband and her marriage.


Good.


----------



## Soveryalone

Jellybeans, Some people in the past have really gone overboard ( one in particular ) After i suggested the whole NC thing. Many times i have found that going NC only intensifies whatever feelings were brewing to begin with  Absence makes the heart grow fonder they say ?


----------



## Jellybeans

Well just make sure you stick to boundaries. Out of respect for yourself and her marriage.


----------



## Soveryalone

I will  I feel like i gave a really bad impression of myself on this thread, or perhaps some who read and replied read bits and pieces and perhaps automatically pegged me , as this home wrecking A hole who was trying to sleep with a married woman, this could not be further from the truth


----------



## NextTimeAround

Soveryalone said:


> I will  I feel like i gave a really bad impression of myself on this thread, or perhaps some who read and replied read bits and pieces and perhaps automatically pegged me , as this home wrecking A hole who was trying to sleep with a married woman, this could not be further from the truth


......but you do like pushing the boundaries........


----------



## Soveryalone

If not stopping my married friend the SECOND she started to talk about how she was feeling about me means that i like to push boundaries , yes you are correct  From the moment this all occurred I made sure to just listen to her, hear her out, but by no means did i suggest that the romantic feelings were mutual, at all. I should really have her read this entire thread and get her thoughts on the matter, however NC is still firmly in place


----------



## clipclop2

well you look hyperbole home. The second she started? you know as well as everyone else at the problem wasn't the second she started it was that you allowed it to linger and continue. I don't know the kind of girly arguments don't you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soveryalone

Yes, the second she started to talk about how she was feeling, I did not know exactly how to react ! I am a very loyal and forgiving friend, and I have never in my life been in this situation before. i honestly handled it the best way i knew how. But yes i was nothing but a friend, from day one with her, and she is the one who decided to take things in an entirely different direction, not me....


----------



## Philat

You do not sound like an A-hole, SVA, and I for one believe that you think you have no romantic feelings for her. But I suspect you might not be able to recognize where these kinds of feelings start and where "warm friendship" leaves off. It also seems clear from your description that she harbors some kind of feeling for you beyond "warm friendship." I also don't believe that either of you will be able to stick to NC. When NC is broken, you should at least stick to the guideline of not discussing anything that you would not feel comfortable discussing if her husband were present.

He, not you, should be her first source of intimacy.

Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but how did you meet your married friend?

ETA: Why did you post this thread in the Ladies' Lounge?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Philat said:


> You do not sound like an A-hole, SVA, and I for one believe that you think you have no romantic feelings for her. But I suspect you might not be able to recognize where these kinds of feelings start and where "warm friendship" leaves off. It also seems clear from your description that she harbors some kind of feeling for you beyond "warm friendship." I also don't believe that either of you will be able to stick to NC. When NC is broken, you should at least stick to the guideline of not discussing anything that you would not feel comfortable discussing if her husband were present.
> 
> He, not you, should be her first source of intimacy.
> 
> Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but how did you meet your married friend?
> 
> *ETA: Why did you post this thread in the Ladies' Lounge?*



Glad you asked that. Maybe SVA was hoping that us ladies would think about how nice it is to have a male friend fawning over us.

But as they say, there are two sides to every coin. these days, when someone brings up the topic of "opposite sex friends" my first thought is some woman fawning over my partner and "one upping" me.


----------



## Soveryalone

I posted this thread here because I wanted advice from women


----------



## Soveryalone

She did send me a text message and i started to read it, but i quickly deleted it, it was headed in a very non friend zone direction, and no i did not reply, and no we have not spoken in days


----------



## clipclop2

She will persist.


----------



## Philat

Soveryalone said:


> I posted this thread here because I wanted advice from women


Advice or validation? Be honest with us and yourself.


----------



## Soveryalone

I honestly wanted advice, I am sorry if i gave the impression i was looking for validation, that was not my intention at all. Maybe on some level i was hoping someone might say , hey i have been in a similar situation before and this is how i proceeded, I guess i was looking for advice and perhaps hoping for some guidance ? I don't have many close friends to get advice from anymore, and i have certainly gotten plenty of really fantastic advice and support on this site. I really hope people who read this thread don't think badly of me.


----------



## TheWon%

My X GF was having an EA which is what your married friend was doing with you, and like you my X GF justified it as "just a friend" well that's not true. Your married friend has feelings for you albeit they look to be rebound feelings for the attention she is not getting at home, and you sir are flattered to the point that you are trying to justify the emotional affair (yes just that one intense moment you spoke of qualifies as an affair) you had with her. 

My X is now in a full blow relationship with someone who she took the first step with the EA, then the second step the PA. Now I've lived long enough to know that anything born this way is going to crumble and fall into its footprints. 1) you don't want to be that guy and 2) would you really want a relationship that started that way? I was once and let me tell you it did not end pretty for me, and from that point of view, I had it coming honestly.

As the other posters have said (only read about half of them) back way, you can tell her why you are doing so, but cut her off and force her to work on her marriage. I'd go so far to say that the only way you should probably talk to her ever again is if she works on her marriage, fails, and then gets divorced.

^^^ That's the only way you could ever have a relationship with her with clean hands....


----------



## Soveryalone

TheWon% said:


> My X GF was having an EA which is what your married friend was doing with you, and like you my X GF justified it as "just a friend" well that's not true. Your married friend has feelings for you albeit they look to be rebound feelings for the attention she is not getting at home, and you sir are flattered to the point that you are trying to justify the emotional affair (yes just that one intense moment you spoke of qualifies as an affair) you had with her.
> 
> My X is now in a full blow relationship with someone who she took the first step with the EA, then the second step the PA. Now I've lived long enough to know that anything born this way is going to crumble and fall into its footprints. 1) you don't want to be that guy and 2) would you really want a relationship that started that way? I was once and let me tell you it did not end pretty for me, and from that point of view, I had it coming honestly.
> 
> As the other posters have said (only read about half of them) back way, you can tell her why you are doing so, but cut her off and force her to work on her marriage. I'd go so far to say that the only way you should probably talk to her ever again is if she works on her marriage, fails, and then gets divorced.
> 
> ^^^ That's the only way you could ever have a relationship with her with clean hands....


I am very sorry you experienced that, Trust me I know how much pain that involves. I was with my EX for 12 years and she started an EA with a former friend of mine and they got married 2 months after I left. I do know how much pain is involved in situations like these, its why I reached out on this site and started this thread for help, support and guidance. I didn't want to abandon a really good friend of mine, but sometimes its best to think logically what is best for everyone involved rather than to think from a romantic/ emotional perspective. I do miss my friend very much, she really did mean a great deal to me, but her marriage , and her working on her marriage is whats most important here. Maybe in time things will improve for her and her marriage, I hope so I really do wish her nothing but happiness, but i do see the error in my ways, and do accept that fact that I was in the wrong, even though I was not pursuing her.:scratchhead: Sometimes this whole situation leaves my mind spinning


----------



## Soveryalone

Well everyone would be quite proud of me, I have maintained no contact with her, despite her very best efforts, my goodness i have made the mistake of glancing at a few of the texts she has sent me.... wow i must say....i blushed, she has sent some extremely vivid and naughty ones !!! But i have kept my word, and have not replied to any of her attempts at contact


----------



## clipclop2

Block her. She is showing you she is not your friend. A friend would never put you through this.

She is acting like a *****. She is not a nice girl.


----------



## Jellybeans

Soveryalone said:


> my goodness i have made the mistake of glancing at a few of the texts she has sent me.... wow i must say....i blushed, *she has sent some extremely vivid and naughty ones* !!!


Tell her this is seriously inappropriate. Clearly she didn't hear you when you told her you did NOT want to get involved being that she is MARRIED and has a HUSBAND.

Honestly, it's pretty fcked up what she is doing.


----------



## Soveryalone

I guess she just feels that i am after all, male... and if by chance i do glance at one of her very naughty texts , i will at some point cave in and contact her, who knows she may even think if she says the right thing, i may really cave in, and go see her in person. 

So yea i haven't been in a relationship in roughly 15 months... and can't believe i am saying this here, but i haven't been with a woman sexually since the night before i left 15 months ago , give or take. So please know that I am showing tremendous will power here, because i REALLY miss being close like that with a woman and hope within the next few years or so to be in a committed relationship and hopefully have a happy healthy relationship and everything that goes with that ( sex ) and before anyone calls me a beta male, or a whiner , i am the first one to admit that I am not the type of guy who can just randomly have sex with someone , yes this might sound silly but I need to be in love in order to be with a woman sexually. And i have enough self control and morals to wait for that to happen ( wait til i am involved in a relationship to be sexual with a woman).

I guess it would be nice to get close to someone. I think 15 months is an appropriate time span to be single post long term relationship , and i feel ready


----------



## happy as a clam

SVA... send her ONE text back, clearly stating "Your texts are not appropriate. Do NOT send me anymore texts of this nature." Then block her number.

Otherwise this is gonna come back to bite you in the a$$ when her husband discovers them. And trust me, he will.


----------



## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> Well everyone would be quite proud of me, I have maintained no contact with her, despite her very best efforts, my goodness i have made the mistake of glancing at a few of the texts she has sent me.... wow i must say....i blushed, she has sent some extremely vivid and naughty ones !!! But i have kept my word, and have not replied to any of her attempts at contact


Good for you, congrats and keep it up.

:smthumbup:

Find yourself a good woman that you deserve! Plenty out there, but I will say they are not easy to find in CT. As you know VERY well, we get a LOT of "NYC type" spillage here in CT.



Meanwhile, accept that "men/women can't be friends" applies AS MUCH to women as it does to men. YOU are my proof!!!


----------



## spunkycat08

OP:

Your married female friend sure is not acting like a married woman.


----------



## happy as a clam

spunkycat08 said:


> OP:
> 
> Your married female friend sure is not acting like a married woman.


Yep, more like a horny, cheating trollop.


----------



## clipclop2

Trollop is a good word.


----------



## Soveryalone

eh , I have given up looking, I had my chance , I was with my EX for 12 years and we stopped loving one another well before the actual end. Some people are just meant to be alone, its ok  I have come to terms with it , really


----------



## Soveryalone

I think everyone is making a great deal of sense on this thread however, there is a flipside. From time to time people find themselves in really horrible situations, whether that's an abusive relationship, or a loveless relationship/ marriage and they don't know what to do, or how to leave, they just remain stuck and they connect with other people and sometimes feelings develop and sometimes because of those feelings things happen / things are discussed which are not appropriate in many peoples eyes. The truth is , my married friend has worked her ass off, and done everything in her power to make things better in her marriage, and her husband refuses to work at it as well. Honestly , if he was working at it, or trying in the least , or making her feel at all important , she would not have looked elsewhere for love and support. He isn't living up to his end of the bargain and frankly , even though I agree with you all that she is in the wrong, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she has expressed romantic interest in another...


----------



## Philat

First this:



Soveryalone said:


> I guess it would be nice to get close to someone. I think 15 months is an appropriate time span to be single post long term relationship , and i feel ready


Then this?



Soveryalone said:


> eh , I have given up looking, I had my chance , I was with my EX for 12 years and we stopped loving one another well before the actual end. Some people are just meant to be alone, its ok  I have come to terms with it , really


Sorry, SVA, sounds like you are now "fishing" for responses.


----------



## Soveryalone

Sorry maybe you are right, my apologies  I didn't type those posts with that in mind, but after rereading them, it surely seems like you are right, sorry I will put away my fishing pole


----------



## ne9907

Soveryalone said:


> Recently a married friend of mine and i have been talking quite a bit. She is very private so she doesn't share much about her marriage, just little bits and pieces. Last week or so the talking changed, it started to get intense, she started talking about feelings she was having and the conversation quickly turned into something else all together. I kept telling her that I respected her and her marriage very much. She told me she was feeling guilty because of how close she feels to me. I really don't know what to do. She did pull back a bit and we didn't speak for a day or so, but now we are talking pretty much throughout the day. We are both avoiding talking about what happened last week, in terms of the feelings she was having, we are very much casual now, just how was your day etc.
> 
> She has said she is in a loveless marriage, she doesn't seem happy, and i just want to be there for her as a friend, to support her best i can, because she has done the same for me. I asked her if she was OK with how much time we spend talking together, she said she was fine with and enjoyed it very much. I guess I am just a little confused by all of this. I certainly do not plan to talk about any feelings i may or may not be having. When she said she was feeling close to me, right away I became a little nervous. Any thought, suggestions or speculation as to whats next. I really just want to be a friend to her.


Perhaps I am late to the party, my friend you are caught in a slippery slope! Wake up and smell the truth or....
one fine day, while you two are on a business trip in Tulsa, you will find yourself in her room. You will have sex with her, then come home to your wife, deny everything, your wife will go crazy with doubts because you will no doubt lie to her and tell her nothing happened because your "friend" is not even attractive.... then five years (yes five years, don't judge me  )
your wife will finally realize the cheating scum piece of sh!t you are, and leave you.

Oh wait... nm.... that is my story!!! Opps! 
Hope it helps!


----------



## lovelost2soon

Your "friendship" already crossed the line when she told you how she felt about you. She sees the friendship as something more, something more she seems to want. If you really respect her as a friend then you have to stop the daily talking and scale back a bit. She needs to work on her marriage and talk to someone about it other than you.


----------



## clipclop2

Nonsense! If you want to be in a relationship there are a lot of women out there. Don't know how your standards are for looks but there are a lot of women out there who would like a nice sensitive guy. But maybe you are too beta. Do you work out? Get the T flowing!

Stop having woman friends. That says you have been friend zoned by too many girls. Also women don't want to date guys who have a bunch of girls hanging around. It is only a master of time before one of them does what this ex friend did !

And get over Ms. Cheater. She could not have been very good if she cheated on you. Her character was no good.


----------



## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> She is really an amazing person, *she possesses all the qualities I am looking for* and is extremely attractive in every way possible.


I'm a couple of pages behind, so forgive me if I've altered this thread too much. I have a couple of quick points:

The bolded part above... You have come out of a 12 year relationship in which your ex wife fell in love with someone else, and you are now saying that this person (your friend) possesses all the qualities you are looking for. Including her falling in love with someone other than her husband? See the irony there?

How do you know your ex wife didn't feel the exact same way about you as your friend does about her husband? Loveless marriage and all that. Your friend says her husband is a drunk (may be true) and that he is more or less absent from their marriage. What did your wife say about you to her new boyfriend? Quite possibly the same things.

Regardless of the actual words being used by your friend, YOU are now in the exact same position as the OM that your ex wife left you for. You probably had some choice words, if not a very negative opinion, at least, of the man who "stole your wife". But when you ARE the other man, it's different, right?

You already know what it's like to be the husband whose wife left him for somebody else. You have NO idea if your friends husband would be distraught or "so very alone" if/when she leaves him for another man - which will happen, whether it's you or somebody else.

It does not matter that she has been a friend of yours for a while now. That makes NO difference. That doesn't somehow change things. You are, or could potentially be, the OM. Whether you've known each other for 10 years, or just met at the gym, it's the same thing.

This friendship was over the minute she professed her sexual feelings towards you. That is not a friendship. That is lust. And she is also looking at you through rose-tinted glasses. It is not YOU she is "in love with", it is the idea of you - the longtime friend who "understands" her and advocates for her happiness. This is what is missing in her marriage, and you give it to her.

Opposite sex friends should NEVER be the shoulder to cry on during marital crises. Ever. Ever, ever, ever.


----------



## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> And the sad part about this entire situation is that I NEVER once pushed the limits of this friendship, I saw the lines and remained wayyyyy far back , never even once flirting with her, showing her and her marriage nothing but the utmost respect, I was nothing but a friend and according to her I was the ONLY male friend of hers to treat her with respect. And why does it feel like I am the only one to blame here? Are people reading this thread really ignoring the fact that I was really not an active participant here... I was at a loss what to do, and the very minor minor incident happened ( typing on Skype briefly about sex) and it was very brief because I think we both knew it was wrong. In terms of her talking to me about her feelings , I did not reciprocate. I feel like I am being judged harshly here and I think there is a great deal of transference going on here... I made an error in judgment here, nothing more nothing less


You needed to shut that down, and you didn't. By not shutting it down, it opened the door to her, because she assumed you were receptive to it, at least in a small way.

Because you didn't directly address it when it happened (or it seems, after, either) she now thinks that you are not completely opposed to those kinds of advances.

It's called probing. Men do it all the time. People are susceptible to flattery, and sometimes it's difficult to be offended when someone starts probing like that. Everybody likes to feel wanted.

If some guy hits on my wife, it's up to her to shut that down and end the conversation. If she sits there and smiles and doesn't tell him to back off, then he's going to assume he has an "in", even if she's not completely receptive right away. He might buy her a drink. If she accepts, even though she says "I'm married, but thanks for the drink", he's still not going to back down. The onus is on her to say "thanks but no thanks, not interested".

The same goes for me. If some girl asks me to dance, I wouldn't say "sure, but I AM married" and continue to dance with her. That would show that I am receptive to her advances.

This is what you have done, by not shutting this down AND continuing to talk with her daily.


----------



## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> and down the road if she was to end up single and i was still single as well I would want to pursue things with her.


Whatever you do from now on, do NOT tell her this. The old "I'm there for you when you're single" line.

She needs to work on her marriage, not use you as a reason to leave it. You have NO idea if things could or will work out with her and her husband. Do NOT be the reason she leaves him. That reason has to be something related to THEM, and not involve you in any way.


----------



## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> She is a dear friend to me, i have maybe 5 really close friends on this planet..... you are right i am having a hard time letting her go.. I realize that male / female relationships can get blurry at times, but sometimes a man and a woman , married or not can truly just be good friends, this is how i have always viewed this friendship with her. I do apologize if at any point in this thread did i give the impression that I had romantic feelings for her, because I don't.


Get out of the fog, man.

She has expressed her desire for you. You have said that you would act upon it if/when she is single.

That is not a friendship.

Simply because you have not acted upon it at this time does not make you a saint.

2 people who would jump into bed with each other if the stars align are not friends - it is more than that. Stop deluding yourself.


----------



## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> The truth is , my married friend has worked her ass off, and done everything in her power to make things better in her marriage, and her husband refuses to work at it as well. Honestly , if he was working at it, or trying in the least , or making her feel at all important , she would not have looked elsewhere for love and support. He isn't living up to his end of the bargain and frankly , even though I agree with you all that she is in the wrong, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she has expressed romantic interest in another...


First of all, I've finally got through this entire thread!

I'm glad you went NC and stuck to it, seriously, good for you!

I do have one more question/comment, though, related to the above quote.

Why is she still with this guy? If she has "worked her ass off" and nothing is better, and he is not receptive to change, why hasn't she left him?

THAT is concerning. Usually when things get that bad, and you feel that way about your spouse AND you've tried to fix it, you leave. I'm wondering if things really aren't as bad as she says...

I'm wondering if she just doesn't want to be alone. I'm wondering if what she says about her husband has been exaggerated and overblown in her own mind, and she's fishing for something better, but if it doesn't come along, she'll stay with him until it does?

This certainly seems to be the case. If things are as bad as she's made them out to be, why is she still there?

At the very least, she is the type of person that needs to have something better before she moves on, otherwise she'll stick it out until that time comes. That is not cool. You can do that with jobs, but not relationships.

In fact, the reason people stay in jobs they hate until they find another one is because they are getting paid, and they need the money. So in her case, she is still "getting paid" in some manner, within this marriage, and she is not willing to quit and go any length of time without being paid. The question is (although it's irrelevant, really) is "how is she being paid?" Is it a financial thing? Is it physical? Is it to save her the embarrassment of being "unemployed/single/divorced"?

No matter the answer, it's not healthy. If her marriage is as bad as she says it is, she shouldn't be in it anymore, let alone fishing for her next partner behind her husbands back.

She's not the super awesome person you seem to think she is, man. Frankly, I would never let her back into your life again. Even if she gets out of this marriage, finds another man, all that, you will still be her "plan B". Maybe 10 years down the road with husband #2, things will go South, and who will she come to to try again with? Who will she come to to get what she's missing out of THAT marriage?

Like it or not, you are her "boyfriend", the one who she feels she can talk to and trust with things and get an emotional connection with. When things got bad with her marriage, she tried to make it physical. If you continue this friendship and let her back in, all of this will repeat itself later on down the road. You are her fallback, her plan B, her "if we're both single when we're 50, we'll get together" guy.

When married guys do this, they are dogs, and cheaters and scumbags, and the women who go along with it are hussies and *****s and home wreckers. When married women do this, the men (like you) who they go after are heroic and understanding and knights in shining armor, and they are poor, misunderstood wives in bad marriages who are only seeking a shoulder to cry on.

I've seen this a thousand times, man, including in my own past marriage. My ex did the same thing your ex did to you, and the same thing this friend of yours is doing to her husband. And in my case, I ended up getting the short end of the stick. "Well, there must be a reason she left you for another man". It was about HER needs not being met in our marriage, unbeknownst to me, of course. And of course, the OM was her knight in shining armor. He understood her, and sympathized with whatever she told him about our marriage, and me in particular. She was unhappy, she told him, he sympathized, they ended up together. To ME, he is a dirtbag, and she a cheater. To THEM, they made a connection that I would not understand, and they are squeaky clean. He didn't "steal" somebody's wife. She didn't "cheat on me" because they weren't physical until we split up. Because he gave her some sort of emotional connection that I did not (whether that was true, or only perceived by her), their ensuing relationship was all on the up-and-up, and nobody did anything wrong, and neither of them took any responsibility for the life they turned upside-down in the process.

The only time cheating spouses feel any guilt is when the extra relationship does not work out how they hoped. The grass is not greener, in other words. Sometimes it takes that for the cheater to realize that what they have isn't so bad after all. If the extra relationship works out, however, there IS no guilt or shame, and in fact, it tends to make them even less sympathetic to the partner they cheated on. It justifies their actions. My ex never apologized or felt any guilt whatsoever. Why? Because her ****ty actions translated into something better, and she was "right". If this OM turned out to be a d-bag, she likely would have felt terrible about how she acted and what she did. Would she have come back? Who knows. If she would have, it would have been about guilt and self-esteem. Would I have taken her back? Hell no. Don't go and see if the grass is greener on my dime, thanks.

People will ALWAYS justify this sort of thing that way. Always. But there's always another side to these stories, I can tell you that much.

If there was something wrong in my marriage, it certainly wasn't communicated to me (or at least blatantly, anyway). Did I think it was perfect? No. But if she was so unhappy, she could have talked to me about it. Instead, she sought out whatever was missing elsewhere, all the while acting like nothing was wrong.

You have NO idea if this is how she sees things from her perspective with her husband. Maybe he is blissfully unaware that there is something wrong, just as I was. In fact, I am willing to bet on that, given that they are still together. He may not be completely happy, either, but if he's not aware of the depths of his wife's unhappiness, how can things change? He may be okay with how things are, although not perfect, which is how I felt in my marriage. I had no idea my ex was THAT unhappy, but apparently it was up to me (???) to instinctively know that, even though she gave little indication of it. So that was enough for her to justify an EA.


----------



## clipclop2

Let's not ask the OP to speculate about her marriage if his intention is to cit her out of his life. It serves zero purpose.


----------



## Soveryalone

clipclop2 said:


> Nonsense! If you want to be in a relationship there are a lot of women out there. Don't know how your standards are for looks but there are a lot of women out there who would like a nice sensitive guy. But maybe you are too beta. Do you work out? Get the T flowing!
> 
> Stop having woman friends. That says you have been friend zoned by too many girls. Also women don't want to date guys who have a bunch of girls hanging around. It is only a master of time before one of them does what this ex friend did !
> 
> And get over Ms. Cheater. She could not have been very good if she cheated on you. Her character was no good.


I have "friendzoned" so many women because i was faithfully ( at least i was faithfully) in a 12 year relationship that ended 15 months ago. My ex made sure to try her best to sabotage any and all friendships ( both male and female) that i had over the years. She went as far to distance me from my best friend in the world , ( a guy friend) who i have known for over 20 years. Over the last 15 months I have reached out to many of my old friends, and for some reason the ones who seem to actually contact me back happen to be women :scratchhead:
I get it though, talking about female friends to a date / or potential love interest doesn't seem like a great idea, and i plan to avoid that topic going forward with dates/ potential love interests  and it terms of me being a beta male, I can't really control that , I am who i am , like me, love me , hate me , i am not changing for anyone


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## Soveryalone

alexm said:


> I'm a couple of pages behind, so forgive me if I've altered this thread too much. I have a couple of quick points:
> 
> The bolded part above... You have come out of a 12 year relationship in which your ex wife fell in love with someone else, and you are now saying that this person (your friend) possesses all the qualities you are looking for. Including her falling in love with someone other than her husband? See the irony there?
> 
> *This honestly wont be a popular statement, but I dont fault my EX for falling in love with someone else. Her and I weren't happy at all for years, we just clung on to one another because of how much time we invested in the relationship. I don't think any of us control who or when we fall in love, I think if people are happily married/ involved they don't look for , pay attention to it, and therefore they remain happy with their partners. I don't blame my EX for what happened at all, her and I weren't connected at all on any level and we both deserved to have that connection. She just happened to find it while we were still together.*
> 
> How do you know your ex wife didn't feel the exact same way about you as your friend does about her husband? Loveless marriage and all that. Your friend says her husband is a drunk (may be true) and that he is more or less absent from their marriage. What did your wife say about you to her new boyfriend? Quite possibly the same things.
> 
> *Just to clear up details which are neither here nor there, my EX and I were never married, we were just together for 12 years, and 2 months after i left she got married to my former friend. Honestly I dont know many details at all about my married friends marriage. I know the basics , and yes you are right , I know her side of the story, nothing more nothing less.*
> 
> Regardless of the actual words being used by your friend, YOU are now in the exact same position as the OM that your ex wife left you for. You probably had some choice words, if not a very negative opinion, at least, of the man who "stole your wife". But when you ARE the other man, it's different, right?
> 
> *My exes now husband and I had a few very friendly conversations to be honest when it all started. I don't feel as though he stole her from me, more like her and I just were able to finally let go of one another, and accept that it was over long ago. I don't know my married friends husband, and again all i know is the little she shares with me.*
> 
> You already know what it's like to be the husband whose wife left him for somebody else. You have NO idea if your friends husband would be distraught or "so very alone" if/when she leaves him for another man - which will happen, whether it's you or somebody else.
> *
> Again only based on what she says, I dont get the impression her husband would truly care. He doesn't seem to care about her or the marriage at all. I agree that this really portrays her in a negative light, and you are probably right, this happened with her once, and it would happen again, or maybe not, who knows? Yes previous behavior will repeat , but what if she found the right person ( NO NOT ME) who loved her, made her feel wanted, desired etc etc, what if she found the one who made her happy, would she do this again, or would she just remain happy ? *
> 
> It does not matter that she has been a friend of yours for a while now. That makes NO difference. That doesn't somehow change things. You are, or could potentially be, the OM. Whether you've known each other for 10 years, or just met at the gym, it's the same thing.
> 
> *I agree 100% with this, however her stating her feelings for me does not discount or detract to the friendship prior to that happening, and honestly I don't really have enough close friends in my life to be casually throwing people away like i did here, but oh well, whatever is best for her and her life/ her marriage.*
> 
> This friendship was over the minute she professed her sexual feelings towards you. That is not a friendship. That is lust. And she is also looking at you through rose-tinted glasses. It is not YOU she is "in love with", it is the idea of you - the longtime friend who "understands" her and advocates for her happiness. This is what is missing in her marriage, and you give it to her.
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> Opposite sex friends should NEVER be the shoulder to cry on during marital crises. Ever. Ever, ever, ever.


*I think this all depends on the people in question, i agree in most cases opposite sex friendships and the nature of them become quite grey , not black and white. There is often hidden agendas or feelings that are under the surface and these feelings have a tendency to be revealed and not always at the best times.*


----------



## Soveryalone

alexm said:


> You needed to shut that down, and you didn't. By not shutting it down, it opened the door to her, because she assumed you were receptive to it, at least in a small way.
> 
> *I agree I did not handle her revelation about her feelings properly, this is the first time in my life ever being in this position, and honestly at first I didn't know what to say or how to react, and you are right i should have just completely and totally "shut it down". You mentioned she assumed i was receptive to it, why would she not assume that I was in a really awkward spot and didn't know what to say, how to react ?*
> 
> Because you didn't directly address it when it happened (or it seems, after, either) she now thinks that you are not completely opposed to those kinds of advances.
> 
> *Here is exactly what happened, and this happened on Skype, we were just typing to eachother on skype when she started to talk about some feelings that have surfaced for her , and how she felt extremely guilty and how she was starting to feel very emotionally close to me. She said she should not feel this type of closeness with someone other than her husband, but she has not felt it with him for years. She started to explain how she was feeling , and i didn't really reply at first. then she said how she really liked me and enjoyed talking to me, and how she often missed me when we weren't talking and how she looked forward to the next time we did talk. She went on to say that she should not be feeling this way at all, and then she started to talk about her desires , sexual desires and at this point I just went along with it for a few minutes and than i asked " is this ok, are you sure you want to be talking this way" and she said yes she was sure, and then i said i needed to get going. That was it , that was the extent of what happened.*
> 
> 
> It's called probing. Men do it all the time. People are susceptible to flattery, and sometimes it's difficult to be offended when someone starts probing like that. Everybody likes to feel wanted.
> 
> *Yes i agree, it felt nice to be wanted/ desired , but at the saqmr time I was thinking about her, what was best for her, and her life/ her marriage, and talking about her feelings for me, or talking about her desires with me was certainly not in the best interests of her marriage, its why i did just walk away from the conversation.*
> 
> If some guy hits on my wife, it's up to her to shut that down and end the conversation. If she sits there and smiles and doesn't tell him to back off, then he's going to assume he has an "in", even if she's not completely receptive right away. He might buy her a drink. If she accepts, even though she says "I'm married, but thanks for the drink", he's still not going to back down. The onus is on her to say "thanks but no thanks, not interested".
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> The same goes for me. If some girl asks me to dance, I wouldn't say "sure, but I AM married" and continue to dance with her. That would show that I am receptive to her advances.
> 
> *And it wouldn't show you are a married man, who tells who so, and its just a dance and nothing more nothing less? *
> 
> This is what you have done, by not shutting this down AND continuing to talk with her daily.


*Well after starting this thread and getting plenty of feedback, I decided that it was in everyone's best interest for me to just cut off ties with my married friend, she has reached out to me many times via email/ text message but i have no replied to her. Someone on this thread suggested i reply to one and stress once again that I was in not interested in her romantically. ( I have already said this to her and made it clear that she needed to focus her energy and attention on her marriage).*


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## Soveryalone

alexm said:


> First of all, I've finally got through this entire thread!
> 
> I'm glad you went NC and stuck to it, seriously, good for you!
> 
> I do have one more question/comment, though, related to the above quote.
> 
> Why is she still with this guy? If she has "worked her ass off" and nothing is better, and he is not receptive to change, why hasn't she left him?
> 
> *I don't know, she has mentioned money as being one of the reasons she feels trapped. I really don't have an answer to this, her and I never got into the exact details about her marriage. Perhaps one of the reasons she has not left is her feelings about herself, and her self worth. She used to talk to some mutual friends ( female friends of hers/ mine) about feeling trapped, and being stuck in the loveless marriage, and just accepting it as fact , as how her life played out. When she was talking to me about her feelings, she said that i really opened her eyes about many things, that the connection she feels with me is what she wishes she had with her husband but it just wasn't there. She says i have made her realize that happiness is possible.*
> 
> THAT is concerning. Usually when things get that bad, and you feel that way about your spouse AND you've tried to fix it, you leave. I'm wondering if things really aren't as bad as she says...
> 
> *I am fairly certain she is being honest about her feelings about her marriage, she can only speak for herself of course, and every story has 3 sides, her's , his and the truth, but she had said she is trapped in this loveless marriage, that she is not happy at all, that she does not know how to leave. Your guess is as good as mine to be honest, I really only know the very basics, frankly she shared more about her feelings about me, than she ever did about her husband, about her marriage.*
> 
> I'm wondering if she just doesn't want to be alone. I'm wondering if what she says about her husband has been exaggerated and overblown in her own mind, and she's fishing for something better, but if it doesn't come along, she'll stay with him until it does?
> 
> *:scratchhead: no clue lol*
> 
> This certainly seems to be the case. If things are as bad as she's made them out to be, why is she still there?
> 
> At the very least, she is the type of person that needs to have something better before she moves on, otherwise she'll stick it out until that time comes. That is not cool. You can do that with jobs, but not relationships.
> 
> *She has talked briefly about wanting to be on her own, taking care of herself. She doesn't really strike me as someone who can't be alone, she strikes me as someone who is willing to try her best to make things work, she has said its been this way with them for years, but she keeps hoping things will change ( between her and him, him getting help with his drinking etc )*
> 
> In fact, the reason people stay in jobs they hate until they find another one is because they are getting paid, and they need the money. So in her case, she is still "getting paid" in some manner, within this marriage, and she is not willing to quit and go any length of time without being paid. The question is (although it's irrelevant, really) is "how is she being paid?" Is it a financial thing? Is it physical? Is it to save her the embarrassment of being "unemployed/single/divorced"?
> 
> No matter the answer, it's not healthy. If her marriage is as bad as she says it is, she shouldn't be in it anymore, let alone fishing for her next partner behind her husbands back.
> 
> *I agree with this 100%, I really want her to read this thread i think she will receive plenty of very direct and perhaps painful advice, but she needs to read all of this. I feel like people are jumping to conclusions about my roll in this whole thing and sort of viewing me as the bad guy, when all i really was , was a friend who was unsure how to react to a typed conversation on skype, nothing more , nothing less.*
> 
> She's not the super awesome person you seem to think she is, man. Frankly, I would never let her back into your life again. Even if she gets out of this marriage, finds another man, all that, you will still be her "plan B". Maybe 10 years down the road with husband #2, things will go South, and who will she come to to try again with? Who will she come to to get what she's missing out of THAT marriage?
> 
> *Prior to this whole thing happening ( her sharing her feelings about me) Something like this seemed literally impossible with her. She was constantly hit on, and flirted with and 100% of the time would shut it down, sometimes she would even jump the gun, if someone came close to even hinting at flirting with her , she would quickly shut it down. ( part of why i was so surprised and baffled when she talked to me about her feelings for me). This whole situation has really left me baffled :scratchhead:
> I dont agree with the last part of what you said though, if she was married to the right person ( No NOT ME) someone who she felt the bond and connection with, someone whom she loved , someone who loved her etc etc , I really don't think she would ever leave, or think about leaving , i think she would just remain in love, happy with him, just my opinion of course...*
> 
> Like it or not, you are her "boyfriend", the one who she feels she can talk to and trust with things and get an emotional connection with. When things got bad with her marriage, she tried to make it physical. If you continue this friendship and let her back in, all of this will repeat itself later on down the road. You are her fallback, her plan B, her "if we're both single when we're 50, we'll get together" guy.
> 
> *I don't agree with this part at all. I am her friend, i made that clear to her, and friends can feel an emotional connection to another friend male/ female / married or not. I have cut off ties to her so I am not continuing on with it  And for the brief time we were still in contact after she told me how she felt, I certainly didn't feel like a plan B, plan B would imply that I felt romantic feelings for her , like she did for me, and I never once felt that way for her or even hinted at it to her. And i never once said to her that if we were both single I would want to be with her, that was never said. I never have given her the impression i was interested in her as anything other than a friend.*
> 
> When married guys do this, they are dogs, and cheaters and scumbags, and the women who go along with it are hussies and *****s and home wreckers. When married women do this, the men (like you) who they go after are heroic and understanding and knights in shining armor, and they are poor, misunderstood wives in bad marriages who are only seeking a shoulder to cry on.
> 
> *Honestly i know some people may have not read this entire thread, but I feel as though some people are blowing this thing wayyy out of proportion. People are acting / reacting in a way which does not feel appropriate in terms of what actually happened. People are reacting as if my married friend and I were both in love with each other and having an ongoing physical and emotional affair. She has explained how she felt about me, via skype typed messages. I did not know how to react and i am sorry i was not more forceful about turning her advances down. If i have learned anything from this thread its that I should have made her feel like complete and total shlt when she said she felt close to me.*
> 
> I've seen this a thousand times, man, including in my own past marriage. My ex did the same thing your ex did to you, and the same thing this friend of yours is doing to her husband. And in my case, I ended up getting the short end of the stick. "Well, there must be a reason she left you for another man". It was about HER needs not being met in our marriage, unbeknownst to me, of course. And of course, the OM was her knight in shining armor. He understood her, and sympathized with whatever she told him about our marriage, and me in particular. She was unhappy, she told him, he sympathized, they ended up together. To ME, he is a dirtbag, and she a cheater. To THEM, they made a connection that I would not understand, and they are squeaky clean. He didn't "steal" somebody's wife. She didn't "cheat on me" because they weren't physical until we split up. Because he gave her some sort of emotional connection that I did not (whether that was true, or only perceived by her), their ensuing relationship was all on the up-and-up, and nobody did anything wrong, and neither of them took any responsibility for the life they turned upside-down in the process.
> 
> *I read this previous segment and it really made me think hard about my Ex and the last few years with her. I realized , her and I both realized things were over , we just could not fully let go of one another. I know what you are saying here and i agree with you 100% by times thing go to shlt i think people are ready and willing to check out of a relationship marriage, they would rather just start with someone new and feel all the new feelings than to work on things with their current partner, sad i know, i guess some people never stop wanting that new , fresh fall in love feeling, and when it happens they give into it, where as other people remain loyal to the person they are married to, involved with.*
> 
> The only time cheating spouses feel any guilt is when the extra relationship does not work out how they hoped. The grass is not greener, in other words. Sometimes it takes that for the cheater to realize that what they have isn't so bad after all. If the extra relationship works out, however, there IS no guilt or shame, and in fact, it tends to make them even less sympathetic to the partner they cheated on. It justifies their actions. My ex never apologized or felt any guilt whatsoever. Why? Because her ****ty actions translated into something better, and she was "right". If this OM turned out to be a d-bag, she likely would have felt terrible about how she acted and what she did. Would she have come back? Who knows. If she would have, it would have been about guilt and self-esteem. Would I have taken her back? Hell no. Don't go and see if the grass is greener on my dime, thanks.
> 
> People will ALWAYS justify this sort of thing that way. Always. But there's always another side to these stories, I can tell you that much.
> 
> If there was something wrong in my marriage, it certainly wasn't communicated to me (or at least blatantly, anyway). Did I think it was perfect? No. But if she was so unhappy, she could have talked to me about it. Instead, she sought out whatever was missing elsewhere, all the while acting like nothing was wrong.
> 
> You have NO idea if this is how she sees things from her perspective with her husband. Maybe he is blissfully unaware that there is something wrong, just as I was. In fact, I am willing to bet on that, given that they are still together. He may not be completely happy, either, but if he's not aware of the depths of his wife's unhappiness, how can things change? He may be okay with how things are, although not perfect, which is how I felt in my marriage. I had no idea my ex was THAT unhappy, but apparently it was up to me (???) to instinctively know that, even though she gave little indication of it. So that was enough for her to justify an EA.


Sadly i got busy at work so i was not able to comment on the last few paragraphs, but i thankyou very much for the reply. I will try to read and reply later


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## NextTimeAround

clipclop2 said:


> Let's not ask the OP to speculate about her marriage if his intention is to cit her out of his life. It serves zero purpose.



I agree. Whether or not the marriage is deemed a happy one, SVA should leave her alone.

And if she needs third party assistance, let her find someone who does not or at least does not so obviously have a stake in the outcome of her marriage.


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## spunkycat08

Soveryalone said:


> I think everyone is making a great deal of sense on this thread however, there is a flipside. From time to time people find themselves in really horrible situations, whether that's an abusive relationship, or a loveless relationship/ marriage and they don't know what to do, or how to leave, they just remain stuck and they connect with other people and sometimes feelings develop and sometimes because of those feelings things happen / things are discussed which are not appropriate in many peoples eyes. The truth is , my married friend has worked her ass off, and done everything in her power to make things better in her marriage, and her husband refuses to work at it as well. Honestly , if he was working at it, or trying in the least , or making her feel at all important , she would not have looked elsewhere for love and support. He isn't living up to his end of the bargain and frankly , even though I agree with you all that she is in the wrong, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she has expressed romantic interest in another...


OP:

My mom was stuck in a loveless marriage when I was much younger. Her ex, my father, *did no**t* want to go to marriage counseling. He checked out of their marriage back in the 1970's. My father had many female friends who lived in different cities, and he would spend time with them when he would go out of town on company business. The reason why I knew this is because he would talk out that in front of me and my mom, his wife. My mom *was no**t *happy with his inappropriate behavior, but she never cheated on him emotionally or physically. Who knows what my father talked about with his female friends or if it went beyond just talking.


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## phillybeffandswiss

No offense, but you are doing what cheaters do. You are minimizing. 
Beginning:


> Yes... I agree her and I do talk quite a bit and I just reread a *Skype conversation her and I had and honestly it took my breath away, I am shocked by some of the things that were said, and honestly I feel guilty for not just saying goodbye the moment it started to get intense.*..


Later:


Soveryalone said:


> I was at a loss what to do, and *the very minor minor incident happened ( typing on Skype briefly about sex) and it was very brief* because I think we both knew it was wrong.


"Intense, " "shocked" and "took my breath away" are not words I normally associate with "brief," "briefly" and "minor." You have numerous contradictions like these in your various posts. This means, to me, you are highly conflicted. You are 38, stop lying to yourself. If you notice she has "everything you want" you have the beginnings of "romantic feelings" if they aren't already in place.


Backtracking aside, I appreciate your thread. It makes me understand, not let her slide though, my wife's ignorance about her EA .


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## alexm

Soveryalone said:


> Again only based on what she says, I dont get the impression her husband would truly care. He doesn't seem to care about her or the marriage at all. I agree that this really portrays her in a negative light, and you are probably right, this happened with her once, and it would happen again, or maybe not, who knows? Yes previous behavior will repeat , but what if she found the right person ( NO NOT ME) who loved her, made her feel wanted, desired etc etc, what if she found the one who made her happy, would she do this again, or would she just remain happy ?


Everything else you said is all good, except for this part.

It's not your place to have an opinion on what somebody else thinks and feels, solely based on what a third party tells you.

For all I know, my ex wife told her OM that everything in our relationship was my fault, and that I wouldn't care if she left. Or that she had been working on it for years with me not lifting a finger. Who knows what she said to him to justify her stepping out. I'm sure she had SOME sort of excuse, though, so as not to look like some 2-bit floozy to this guy. And I doubt it painted me in a positive light.

I'd like to think she said SOMETHING to him about me, otherwise he might not have been okay with taking somebody else's wife. Or he could just have been a giant d-bag, I don't know. But I doubt very much that she told him I was awesome.

You've never met this guy. You're going solely on what somebody else is telling you about him. Somebody who is biased and has an agenda. My ex wife once insinuated that I was an alcoholic because I regularly bought a case of beer once a month.

Her husband could be blissfully unaware of what his wife is saying about him, and he might very well think everything is just fine and there's no problem with the marriage. Meanwhile she has picked apart every little thing she could and amplified it in her own brain and concluded that he is not fit to be her husband.

You have no idea, none.


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## clipclop2

He has already cut her off. What's with the going over the past? I don't get the fascination. OP could use more advice on moving on with his life after his ex than anything.

Alexm, you apparently need to talk about what your ex did to you but this is not the place IMO because it keeps this woman too fresh in the OP's mind... That is unless you really want to encourage him to pick off low hanging fruit.


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## GusPolinski

Soveryalone said:


> Well everyone would be quite proud of me, I have maintained no contact with her, despite her very best efforts, my goodness i have made the mistake of glancing at a few of the texts she has sent me.... wow i must say....i blushed, she has sent some extremely vivid and naughty ones !!! But i have kept my word, and have not replied to any of her attempts at contact


Forward them to her husband. I'm pretty sure that the contact will stop after that.


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## GusPolinski

happy as a clam said:


> SVA... send her ONE text back, clearly stating "Your texts are not appropriate. Do NOT send me anymore texts of this nature." Then block her number.
> 
> Otherwise this is gonna come back to bite you in the a$$ when her husband discovers them. And trust me, he will.


Forwarding them to her husband would be a far more effective deterrent.


----------



## GusPolinski

Soveryalone said:


> I think everyone is making a great deal of sense on this thread however, there is a flipside. From time to time people find themselves in really horrible situations, whether that's an abusive relationship, or a loveless relationship/ marriage and they don't know what to do, or how to leave, they just remain stuck and they connect with other people and sometimes feelings develop and sometimes because of those feelings things happen / things are discussed which are not appropriate in many peoples eyes. The truth is , my married friend has worked her ass off, and done everything in her power to make things better in her marriage, and her husband refuses to work at it as well. Honestly , if he was working at it, or trying in the least , or making her feel at all important , she would not have looked elsewhere for love and support. He isn't living up to his end of the bargain and frankly , even though I agree with you all that she is in the wrong, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she has expressed romantic interest in another...


Soooo... Would you say the same of your own marriage?

Either way, it would seem that the hamster has been working overtime.


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## clipclop2

I've struggled with suggesting he sends the texts to her husband but decided that it would be best for him if this piece of garbage woman stayed married. He is lonely and could get involved with her if H kicked her out. OP needs a moral and upright woman. He would end up falling in love and being a nice guy it would only be a matter of time before she did this same thing to HIM.

so I am erring on the site of caution to protect OP and allow OW to mess up her marriage in her own good time.


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## phillybeffandswiss

clipclop2 said:


> Alexm, you apparently need to talk about what your ex did to you but this is not the place IMO because it keeps this woman too fresh in the OP's mind... That is unless you really want to encourage him to pick off low hanging fruit.


Her texts and emails keep her "too fresh" in his mind. Alexm's story is fine IMO.


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## livnlearn

Soveryalone said:


> , my goodness i have made the mistake of glancing at a few of the texts she has sent me.... wow i must say....i blushed, she has sent some extremely vivid and naughty ones !!!


I've read your whole thread and several times I thought to myself "this seems like a really nice, honest, though obviously conflicted guy". However, at times, like in the quoted part above, you sound so naive and almost absurdly innocent for a man of your age, that I have to wonder if you are naive and conflicted at all, or if you are just for some reason needing approval to engage in something you have known is wrong all along. :scratchhead:


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## EleGirl

Soveryalone said:


> *Well after starting this thread and getting plenty of feedback, I decided that it was in everyone's best interest for me to just cut off ties with my married friend, she has reached out to me many times via email/ text message but i have no replied to her. Someone on this thread suggested i reply to one and stress once again that I was in not interested in her romantically. ( I have already said this to her and made it clear that she needed to focus her energy and attention on her marriage).*


You need to make it so that you cannot get any communications from her. That way you cannot glance at what she wrote. 

Block her email address, block her cell number. If a call from her comes through, just say, "Please do not call me." and hang up. 

If she shows up do not talk to her. Do not answer the door. If it's in public just tell her to leave you alone.


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## happy as a clam

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You have numerous contradictions like these in your various posts. *This means, to me, you are highly conflicted. You are 38, stop lying to yourself.*





livnlearn said:


> I've read your whole thread and several times I thought to myself "this seems like a really nice, honest, though obviously conflicted guy". However, at times, like in the quoted part above, you sound so naive and *almost absurdly innocent for a man of your age*, that I have to wonder if you are naive and conflicted at all, or if you are just for some reason needing approval to engage in something you have known is wrong all along. :scratchhead:


SVA, for a man your age, your posts scream out junior-high/high-school maturity level.

I have to stop reading your thread, it is really triggering me to get very angry. I've met men like you (at least how you come across in this thread) when I worked in the corporate world. They're the men that always go to lunch with a gaggle of women instead of male coworkers. They're always "helpful", "if there's anything you need" types. While other males in the office are at the water cooler talking sports and politics, they're the guys asking the secretary with marriage problems, "Do you need to talk?" In reality, they are creepy "lurkers", waiting in the wings, who are there to take advantage of easy, vulnerable prey and snag leftovers from alpha males.

It really nauseates me how you minimize your involvement in all of this. "It wasn't ME who wrote those naughty texts!! I just READ them!!"

Lastly, the fact that you were with your partner for 12 years but would never commit through marriage says a lot to me about your conflicted self and your maturity level.


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## Soveryalone

happy as a clam said:


> SVA, for a man your age, your posts scream out junior-high/high-school maturity level.
> 
> I have to stop reading your thread, it is really triggering me to get very angry. I've met men like you (at least how you come across in this thread) when I worked in the corporate world. They're the men that always go to lunch with a gaggle of women instead of male coworkers. They're always "helpful", "if there's anything you need" types. While other males in the office are at the water cooler talking sports and politics, they're the guys asking the secretary with marriage problems, "Do you need to talk?" In reality, they are creepy "lurkers", waiting in the wings, who are there to take advantage of easy, vulnerable prey and snag leftovers from alpha males.
> 
> It really nauseates me how you minimize your involvement in all of this. "It wasn't ME who wrote those naughty texts!! I just READ them!!"
> 
> Lastly, the fact that you were with your partner for 12 years but would never commit through marriage says a lot to me about your conflicted self and your maturity level.


My Ex and I planned to get married but at some point we just realized it was not going to work out, honestly I think me walking away when i did, when she had met someone else and fallen in love shows a hell of a lot about my maturity level, we weren't happy, I did the mature thing and walked away. 

In terms of my married friend and my maturity level, If i was so immature I would have just jumped in my car and slept with this woman, however after the conversation her and I had , and taking advice from this thread, i did the mature thing and cut off all ties with her... again in my opinion the mature thing to do...

As far as me having female friends, does that really matter ? Does that make me a lurker?? lol ... no.. some people just get along better with the opposite sex...


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## Soveryalone

I have had two serious relationships my entire life... perhaps when it comes to love , i am very much immature ? i dated seriously when i was 20-24 and 25 to 37, so ye maybe I have plenty to learn and maybe i do come across as naive, i am trying to be as truthful and open on this thread as possible

i realize this post contradicts my previous posting in terms of my maturity level , however i am just trying to keep up with this thread and reply to everyones comments in a polite and respectful manner


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## Soveryalone

livnlearn said:


> I've read your whole thread and several times I thought to myself "this seems like a really nice, honest, though obviously conflicted guy". However, at times, like in the quoted part above, you sound so naive and almost absurdly innocent for a man of your age, that I have to wonder if you are naive and conflicted at all, or if you are just for some reason needing approval to engage in something you have known is wrong all along. :scratchhead:


Lol i have to say i agree with you, i have felt very mixed up, very unsure and I am 100% sure i do come across as innocent in this thread, because my only mistake here was not reacting properly to my married friends advances if you can even call them that ! the past 15 months of my life have been a roller coaster, but i have tried to remain level headed and i have certainly tried to maintain my morals at all times. I think several people who have read this thread may have read into things when i talked about my thoughts about my married friend, and the truth is if the situation was different and she was single I would want to see where things went romantically , however I have not shared that with her , nor would i EVER in my life share my feelings with a married woman. I have way too much respect to do that. But i do understand why some people are upset here, they feel as though i needed to be more harsh towards my friend when she talked about how she felt , when she talked about what she thought of sexually , oh well if i could go back in time i would make sure that i was much more harsh with her, i would have probably typed in caps
YOU ARE MARRIED I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH A MARRIED WOMAN, NOW KINDLY LEAVE ME ALONE
or something like that :scratchhead:


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## happy as a clam

Soveryalone said:


> ...nor would i EVER in my life share my feelings with a married woman. I have way too much respect to do that. But i do understand why some people are upset here, *they feel as though i needed to be more harsh towards my friend when she talked about how she felt* , when she talked about what she thought of sexually , oh well if i could go back in time i would make sure that i was much more harsh with her, *I would have probably typed in caps YOU ARE MARRIED I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH A MARRIED WOMAN, NOW KINDLY LEAVE ME ALONE* or something like that :scratchhead:


Bingo! You just solved your own dilemma, SVA


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## Soveryalone

:scratchhead: No clue how this thread has lasted for 9 pages... Honestly when i started this thread , i wanted advice from women, i really just wanted to know from women if this friendship with my married friend could be saved, but after my first posting I think everything derailed, and i realized that not only was friendship with her not an option, that Stopping all contact with her would be the most prudent thing to do. I think on some level i started this thread and kept adding to it hoping someone might say " Hey if this person really was a dear friend to you , you should try to work it out and get past the indiscretion" and i think maybe one person who posted on here did say something similar to that. Not to repeat myself, but after my previous relationship ended, I lost touch with ALL of my friends, and the ones i have left ( yes my married friend was included in that) the ones i have left i really do care about, cherish and value.


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## happy as a clam

Soveryalone said:


> :scratchhead: No clue how this thread has lasted for 9 pages...


I think it lasted for 9 pages because your "dilemma" really triggered A LOT of people who have been down the horrible road of infidelity -- being on the receiving end.

You muddied up the waters a bit by telling us you would LIKE to date her if she were single. Even though you have "no romantic feelings for her." Ok, well which is it? Of course, to us, it doesn't really sound like she's "just a friend."

While YOU knew you wouldn't pursue anything with the friend, we were all seeing HUGE red flags jumping out all over the place, especially how affairs seem to begin so "innocently" at first. Just a conversation, just a text, just one "inappropriate" comment. One thing often leads to another...

Just my 2 cents...


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## clipclop2

The OP is doing OK. Should block her texts for sure. But if he is willing to maintain no contact people might want to consider accepting that he has done well telling her goodbye and not reaching back when she tempts.

Block her and end of thread!


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## phillybeffandswiss

The thread was dead and you resurrected it asking for "Kudos." Sorry, if you came back three month later, I'd be right there with clipclop. A week and a half is a start, but this post:


> I guess she just feels that i am after all, male... and if by chance i do glance at one of her very naughty texts , i will at some point cave in and contact her, who knows she may even think if she says the right thing, i may really cave in, and go see her in person.
> 
> So yea i haven't been in a relationship in roughly 15 months... and can't believe i am saying this here, but i haven't been with a woman sexually since the night before i left 15 months ago , give or take. So please know that I am showing tremendous will power here, because i REALLY miss being close like that with a woman and hope within the next few years or so to be in a committed relationship and hopefully have a happy healthy relationship and everything that goes with that ( sex ) and before anyone calls me a beta male, or a whiner , i am the first one to admit that I am not the type of guy who can just randomly have sex with someone , yes this might sound silly but I need to be in love in order to be with a woman sexually. And i have enough self control and morals to wait for that to happen ( wait til i am involved in a relationship to be sexual with a woman).
> 
> I guess it would be nice to get close to someone. I think 15 months is an appropriate time span to be single post long term relationship , and i feel ready


Had me believing you were starting to waffle, like earlier, again. I took it as you looking for support because her texts have you on the fence again. You may not have meant it that way, but there is a ton of angst in this post.


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## happy as a clam

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The thread was dead and *you resurrected it asking for "Kudos."*


:iagree:

Completely agree. That's exactly what I was referring to when I brought up "maturity." I wasn't referring to your maturity in relationships, but rather your maturity in how you handled THIS situation and how you PRESENTED it to TAM...

The thread was dead, yet YOU kept asking, "Yeah, but...." "Yeah, but..." "But what IF?" "But what IF?" 38-year-olds don't ask these questions and play these junior high dance "pick me" games.

Just let it die a respectful thread-death...


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## phillybeffandswiss

You brought up women's advice twice so, here you go:
1) 26 people, not including you, have posted.
2) 17 are women according to posts or profiles.



> i wanted advice from women, i really just wanted to know from women if this friendship with my married friend could be saved


Only one of those women said save the relationship. All the others were basically back off, end it or worse.

Trust me, TAM has a different breed of women posters. Don't ever assume someone, who ripped you a new one, is a man.


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## happy as a clam

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You brought up women's advice twice so, here you go:
> 1) 26 people, not including you, have posted.
> 2) 17 are women according to posts or profiles.
> 
> Only one of those women said save the relationship. All the others were basically back off, end it or worse.
> 
> *Trust me, TAM has a different breed of women posters.* Don't ever assume someone, who ripped you a new one, is a man.


Great stats, PB&S. Wow, are you a statistician?!

OP, I hope these numbers register with you. I don't think you came anywhere CLOSE to getting the response you wanted (or were "fishing" for)... and I honestly believe you were fishing, to make yourself "feel better" about your choices.


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## NextTimeAround

> I guess she just feels that i am after all, male... and if by chance i do glance at one of *her very naughty texts* , i will at some point cave in and contact her,


Why don't you get your little whip and drop by there tonight and give this NAUGHTY girl a good seeing to........


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## clipclop2

Knock it off.


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## DoF

I think people here are being rather offensive towards OP.

It seems like OP not only listened/read the advice that was given to him but he also took our advice/action to solve it.

Why are you guys being so harsh on him again? Maybe I missed something?



Soveryalone said:


> :scratchhead: No clue how this thread has lasted for 9 pages... Honestly when i started this thread , i wanted advice from women, i really just wanted to know from women if this friendship with my married friend could be saved, but after my first posting I think everything derailed, and i realized that not only was friendship with her not an option, that Stopping all contact with her would be the most prudent thing to do. I think on some level i started this thread and kept adding to it hoping someone might say " Hey if this person really was a dear friend to you , you should try to work it out and get past the indiscretion" and i think maybe one person who posted on here did say something similar to that. Not to repeat myself, but after my previous relationship ended, I lost touch with ALL of my friends, and the ones i have left ( yes my married friend was included in that) the ones i have left i really do care about, cherish and value.


You are 100% correct on derailing. You did what you were advised and apparently people STILL have a problem with that.

Don't worry about friends. They come and go. Just how it is. Personally I put very little importance or emphasis on friends. But that's mostly because I simply don't have enough time TO BE a good friend to someone, so I don't think it's fair for me to expect similar from other. Friendship is a 2 way street, you get as much as you put into it. 

My loved one gives me everything I need AND some from that perspective as well, so it's easier that way. 

Mind you, I still have "friends" and all, but I just keep it casual and on from time to time basis.


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## Jellybeans

DoF said:


> Why are you guys being so harsh on him again? Maybe I missed something?
> 
> You are 100% correct on derailing. You did what you were advised and apparently people STILL have a problem with that.


Are you new? I know you're not new to TAM, DoF (lol) but as you know, people project what has happened to them in these threads and the vitriol spreads quickly. Especially when dealing with this subject matter. CWI is the worst though.


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> Are you new? I know you're not new to TAM, DoF (lol) but as you know, people project what has happened to them in these threads and the vitriol spreads quickly. Especially when dealing with this subject matter. CWI is the worst though.


One can I'm fairly new....but yeah, noticing above more and more.


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## Jellybeans

For some reason I thought you'd been around a lot longer than just this year. Nonetheless, this is standard operating posting procedure at TAM. (The DAGGERS to the OP). 

Grab a seat next to me and enjoy the show.


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> For some reason I thought you'd been around a lot longer than just this year.


I will take that as a complement, thank you.


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## Soveryalone

Ok so let me get this straight and honestly i could care less if this annoys anyone. A married woman tells me she has fallen in love with me, and that she wants to F_ck me, and I am the bad guy ??? really ? I am 100% single... i can do whatever the hell i want to do, she is married , she was 100 %to blame here, i really should just go visit her and give her exactly what she is craving


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## Soveryalone

Sorry but i reread this thread and really started to think about it, I did nothing wrong, at all , she was a lonely housewife , she acted like a predator and I acted like her prey. I have no idea at all in my mind why people read this and were so hostile, If this thread triggered people or made people upset , stop whining about it and just don't read.... simple as that


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## Decorum

Soveryalone said:


> Ok so let me get this straight and honestly i could care less if this annoys anyone. A married woman tells me she has fallen in love with me, and that she wants to F_ck me, and I am the bad guy ??? really ? I am 100% single... i can do whatever the hell i want to do, she is married , she was 100 %to blame here, i really should just go visit her and give her exactly what she is craving


This is one reason to never start at the end of a thread. :rofl:


OP has learned a valuable life lesion here. You're on a train track crossing, you hear Ding! Ding! Ding! and see red lights flashing and the crossing guards descending around you, you see the single light coming down the tracks and feel the rumble...

GET THE HELL OUT!!! THERE IS A TRAIN WRECK COMMING AND YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT!!!!


OP, this passive aggressive response is part of why you did not see this coming when you should have, you make unwarranted assumptions about people (Blinders), i.e. think their nice when you should not (BTW "nice" is a meaningless word in this context, and FWIW that does not mean they are "bad" it just means they are human).

Often this type of (fear based) emotional thinking is accompanied by unconditional acceptance and pedestalizing, usually with reciprocal expectations of the same, which does not work in relationships. You should do some personal work in this area SVA, maybe some IC.

ETA: "Please like me" just drips from your post here SVA, think about it!

I wish you well.
Take care!


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## Almostrecovered

so go live a less than honorable life
it will usually burn you in the end


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## DoF

Soveryalone said:


> Ok so let me get this straight and honestly i could care less if this annoys anyone. A married woman tells me she has fallen in love with me, and that she wants to F_ck me, and I am the bad guy ??? really ? I am 100% single... i can do whatever the hell i want to do, she is married , she was 100 %to blame here, i really should just go visit her and give her exactly what she is craving


Don't do that.

Don't forget about Karma.

I'm telling you and have told you that you did great with all of this. 

Ignore trolls


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## happy as a clam

Soveryalone said:


> Ok so let me get this straight and honestly i could care less if this annoys anyone. A *married woman* tells me she has fallen in love with me, and that she wants to F_ck me, and I am the bad guy ??? really ? I am 100% single... *i can do whatever the hell i want to do*, she is married , she was 100 %to blame here, *i really should just go visit her and give her exactly what she is craving*


Really SVA? Just really?

Ok, so you have just re-read your thread, from the same skewed viewpoint *under which you first wrote it.*

Some of us were duped into thinking you had come full circle. But you have turned from the "nice guy" who did "absolutely nothing" to encourage his married "friend" coming on to him, to the passive aggressive male who is ready to exact his revenge on innocent spouses (OW's husband) -- the same thing that happened to you. F*ck some other dude's wife to make YOURSELF feel masculine and desirable instead of feeling like a bottom-feeder sucking up other men's scraps.

Whoever said you were FISHING was absolutely right.

Sounds like a great plan. Slither in, b*ng the other woman, then slither out. All under the guise of "helping her" sort out her problems.

I suspected your "self-discovery" was too good to be true. Have at it then. The OM will discover the fact that you fooled around with his wife (nothing less than you have already experienced with your LTR gal cheating on you.)

You will then deserve what's likely coming to you.

Pardon me while I vomit in my mouth...


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## happy as a clam

SVA... somehow, I didn't think you'd be back.

The heat got too hot in the kitchen.


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## GusPolinski

The hamster is strong w/ this one...

YouTube.com - Family Guy Buff Hamster


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