# Emotional Affair?



## Whattodo503 (Jan 28, 2018)

My husband is a stay-at-home dad. We have two children. Our oldest started kindergarten this year. In her class, there is a girl and her mom and my husband have grown up together. They dated for a couple weeks about 15 years ago before we got together. I found out around the 1st of January that they have texted each other every day for the past two and half months. My husband has been deleting text messages from her and lying to me about talking to her. He said he lied to me because he didn't want to start a fight with me. They see each other every morning at drop off and then had been texting each other throughout the day to see how their days were going. Texting at night after I went to bed, to see how their days went. We had been fighting and generally not getting along during this time he was hiding this from me. Now, he says they are best friends and that men and women can be just platonic friends. I texted her and told her that I wasn't comfortable with them texting each other all the time. It stopped for about a week. I was made to feel like I was crazy and controlling for thinking that something was going on. As a woman, i don't have a friend that I see every single day and text throughout the day..except my husband. I had a feeling he was hiding something from me and I found this. My gut instinct tells me that he has feelings for her and it just hurts. He google searched their astrological compatibility on a day that he stopped by her house just to smoke a cigarette. He lied to me about that too. Some of the texts were just too friendly, not sexual, but nothing I would ever feel comfortable texting another married man. Now, she knows that he was deleting text messages also. If a married woman texted me to stop texting her husband, and I found out that he was deleting my messages and keeping it from her--i would think he has feelings for me. 
My husband says he loves me and I believe him. I think he is also in love with her and doesn't know what to do with his feelings. My husband has been taking her daughter home in the afternoon to her dad's..but didn't become friends with the dad. My husband would never be okay with me doing this, but I'm just suppose to accept this as normal. Can men and woman just be platonic friends and does this sounds like such a situation? He thinks I should be okay with him going over there on a Friday night to hang out alone with her and will not set boundaries with her. They have never had just the friends talk and she complains about her baby's dad and her life to him all the time. I'm pretty sure that he has complained about me to her as well which ****ing hurts. Now kids are involved and I have to be okay with him seeing her everyday because our children are in the same class. I wanted him to stop talking to her until we went into marriage counseling, which didn't happen. Sticky situation.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Sure, men and women can be platonic friends. I have many women who are friends. I have even sent them text messages on occasion. I think the last one was a few weeks ago. Something vaguely personal after a string of work related texts. 

But your husband and this woman are far, far more than platonic friends. He is gaslighting you to try to make you accept his Emotional Affair.

How to make him see it is actually an Emotional Affair and totally outside the bounds of propriety is a tough one. Someone is bound to say you should go get friendly with the divorced dad, and see how your husband likes it.

I don't have any answers. I just know your husband is hurting you, is totally wrong, and is trying to blame shift to you, and is gaslighting you to try to make you feel like there is nothing wrong. All classic signs of his ongoing infatuation with this other woman. You are right, he is wrong.

Just remember you are right. He is wrong.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

This has gone way out of control and must stop. Yes it definitely an emotional affair, and if it hasn't already it may well lead to more.

He is being very naïve or very stupid if the thinks this is ok, its not, and the fact that he is deleting her texts proves that he knows its NOT OK. He is playing with fire here. 

In your place I would say that all contact must stop now, that includes taking each others children home to each other houses. Talking to her husband and telling him of your concerns may well help to stop this before 2 families are destroyed.

Its normal that you would be very worried and concerned, you have good reason to be. Him going over every Friday night to spend the evening with her is beyond stupid and who knows what goes on there. The fact that she isn't happy in her relationship is another worrying red flag. 

It has to stop and you may need to set strong conditions for the marriage to carry on.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd even go so far to say, if it were me, I'd move.




Diana7 said:


> This has gone way out of control and must stop. Yes it definitely an emotional affair, and if it hasn't already it may well lead to more.
> 
> He is being very naïve or very stupid if the thinks this is ok, its not, and the fact that he is deleting her texts proves that he knows its NOT OK. He is playing with fire here.
> 
> ...


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I'd even go so far to say, if it were me, I'd move.


It may need to come to that.


----------



## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Men and women can be friends. They can text. What they can't do in a healthy marriage is lie to their spouses about what they are doing. He violated your trust.

I'm very tolerant. I have many women friends and my wife has many male friends. Regardless, if either of us had lied the way that your husband did, it would be terrible. I can't imagine either of us accepting anything short of a cessation of unnecessary contact with the other person. If he hadn't lied, it would be different, but he violated your trust. He needs to regain it and stopping his relationship with her seems like a minimal condition to do that.

I will caution you, though, that life is socially tough for a SAHD. There aren't many of them, so most of their contact is with other SAHM. I've rarely seen it work. That may change if it becomes more common. For now, it will be tough for him to have daytime social activity that doesn't involve other women. Again, though, that is why establishing a reasonable level of trust is necessary. He already blew that, so a difficult situation is now that much harder.


----------



## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Whattodo503 said:


> My husband is a stay-at-home dad. We have two children. Our oldest started kindergarten this year. In her class, there is a girl and her mom and my husband have grown up together. They dated for a couple weeks about 15 years ago before we got together. I found out around the 1st of January that they have texted each other every day for the past two and half months. My husband has been deleting text messages from her and lying to me about talking to her. He said he lied to me because he didn't want to start a fight with me. They see each other every morning at drop off and then had been texting each other throughout the day to see how their days were going. Texting at night after I went to bed, to see how their days went. We had been fighting and generally not getting along during this time he was hiding this from me. Now, he says they are best friends and that men and women can be just platonic friends. I texted her and told her that I wasn't comfortable with them texting each other all the time. It stopped for about a week. I was made to feel like I was crazy and controlling for thinking that something was going on. As a woman, i don't have a friend that I see every single day and text throughout the day..except my husband. I had a feeling he was hiding something from me and I found this. My gut instinct tells me that he has feelings for her and it just hurts. He google searched their astrological compatibility on a day that he stopped by her house just to smoke a cigarette. He lied to me about that too. Some of the texts were just too friendly, not sexual, but nothing I would ever feel comfortable texting another married man. Now, she knows that he was deleting text messages also. If a married woman texted me to stop texting her husband, and I found out that he was deleting my messages and keeping it from her--i would think he has feelings for me.
> My husband says he loves me and I believe him. I think he is also in love with her and doesn't know what to do with his feelings. My husband has been taking her daughter home in the afternoon to her dad's..but didn't become friends with the dad. My husband would never be okay with me doing this, but I'm just suppose to accept this as normal. Can men and woman just be platonic friends and does this sounds like such a situation? He thinks I should be okay with him going over there on a Friday night to hang out alone with her and will not set boundaries with her. They have never had just the friends talk and she complains about her baby's dad and her life to him all the time. I'm pretty sure that he has complained about me to her as well which ****ing hurts. Now kids are involved and I have to be okay with him seeing her everyday because our children are in the same class. I wanted him to stop talking to her until we went into marriage counseling, which didn't happen. Sticky situation.


Possibly rash advice, but I would contact the other woman's husband. Let him know what you have seen and find out if he is ok with this. First, if he knows about it, then it is more likely that the feelings that you are worried about are not mutual, that it is only from your husband. But even still, she could just be manipulating her husband in this case. If he doesn't know, that to me, along with your gut instinct and everything you've said is a smoking gun that something is definitely up. 

Actually...rereading your story, I say my advice is not rash at all. She ignored your request to stop. That is enough for me.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Whattodo503 said:


> Can men and woman just be platonic friends and does this sounds like such a situation?


No and no.

There's saying which is pretty much true that a man cannot be just friends with a woman he finds physically attractive. I do have a few platonic female friends, but they really are not at all physically attractive to me. Furthermore, men are usually not interested in lots of communications with women they are not romantically or sexually interested in.

Get the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Read it and then have your husband read it.

You might personally benefit from "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by Smith if you have difficulty being assertive with your H. Lots of great verbal tools in that book.



FalCod said:


> life is socially tough for a SAHD


Yes, Whattodo, be aware of this. SAHD can be a real ego wrecker for a man depending on the circumstances. It is also a marriage wrecker. Using broad generalizations which may not apply to you two, men are wired to go hunt for food and women are wired to need protection of a strong male. When those roles are reversed in modern society, the man can feel lost and a failure. And the woman can feel resentment towards her H and can lose feeling attraction to him. People do make SAHD work, but it is wise to be aware that the sociology can cause problems.


----------



## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Thor said:


> No and no.
> 
> There's saying which is pretty much true that a man cannot be just friends with a woman he finds physically attractive. I do have a few platonic female friends, but they really are not at all physically attractive to me. Furthermore, men are usually not interested in lots of communications with women they are not romantically or sexually interested in.
> 
> ...


https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/stay-home-dads-affairs-think-js/

Why Stay at Home Dads Are More Likely to Cheat | CafeMom

SAHD more likely to cheat than non-SAHDs; More likely to cheat than SAHM.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

From my read of this the Other Woman is divorced.

Note the line, "My husband has been taking her daughter home in the afternoon to her dad's..but didn't become friends with the dad."

I read this to mean the Other Woman and her ex husband do not live together. Otherwise the OP would be more likely to say her husband took the daughter home. Not distinctly to one parent's home.

From this, personally I suspect, given the deleted texts, this is already a Physical Affair, but I am always quick to jump to that assumption. In my opinion it is only a matter of minutes after the flirting starts before the sex gets hot and heavy. The Other Woman lives alone, and the husband who is starring in this thread has ample time.


----------



## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

Yeah I would say you have a problem. While I know there are married guys that claim to have platonic female friends, this is not something I would ever do. Even though I feel 100% sure I would never have a problem doing it, it would most likely drive my wife nuts and for this reason alone I have a strict personal rule against it. It just basically runs counter to what I feel is appropriate. I have plenty of guy friends and my wife has her girl friends and that's the way we both like it.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

There are healthy examples of men and women maintaining friendships.

However, I believe that opposite sex friendship cannot thrive healthily on lies and deceit.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@Whattodo503: The other woman (OW) is either divorced or separated from her child’s father, no longer lives with him, and is thus single. She use to be in a romantic relationship with your husband. Your husband deletes her texts specially so that you do not see them. He calls the other woman his best friend and visits her house alone with her. He does not care about your feelings about this, lies to protect his relationship with OW over your concerns, and is prioritizing her over you.

Tell me if your husband was indeed having either an emotional or physical affair, what would he be saying or doing that he is not already saying or doing now? If it walks like a duck.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

It sounds like "Mr. Mom" has a little too much time on his hands.

Doesn't he have any aspirations or ambition to excel in a career of his *own* instead of staying home every day? Getting past all the liberal bull**** arguments supporting today's men becoming housewives while their wives support them, the truth is, he's doing himself NO favors at all. MANY women who have opted to stay home with their kids have gotten *screwed over royally* 10 or 12 years later when the marriage ended for whatever reason. They had no professional skills and because they'd been out of the market for more than a decade, no one wanted to hire them.

The same goes for SAHDs.

But I'm also willing to bet you don't even see how your dynamic has already reversed itself. He's become the stay at home 'wife' and you're now the male head of the house who not only supports both he and your kids financially, but now you're calling other women and telling them to 'back off' your husband, like he's some hot-house flower you need to protect from the big bad wolf. Ugh.



> Yes, Whattodo, be aware of this. SAHD can be a real ego wrecker for a man depending on the circumstances. It is also a marriage wrecker.


I couldn't agree more with this if I tried. Get yourself an au pair and get him back out in the real world while he's still somewhat marketable before he completely ruins his chances of making something of himself. Maybe some confidence and no longer having to depend on his wife for every cent he spends will work wonders for him.

Or, if you want to continue the gender-switch and keep him home, I would advise you shut off his phone since you pay for it, anyway.


----------



## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Dear What,

Your post has a lot of triggers for me. 2 years ago, I was in a similar position to yours. And almost 2 years ago, I wept copiously in front of my husband trying to explain how his friendship with the other woman (OW) was making me feel. All he heard was me trying to put a stop to his fun ... because I was "angry" that he had something else in his life that made him happy. After that, I continued to do almost everything wrong, but I am still married now - mostly because the OW's husband was suspicious and angry. And maybe because my husband finally woke up. At the time, I was the SAHM and intending to remain that way. But, I will never leave myself that vulnerable again.

Firstly, if I may reiterate what others have said - there is nothing OK about your husband's relationship with this woman:

She is someone that he had a past romantic/physical relationship with 
Presumably, she is currently in the market for a partner, and clearly couldn't care less that her relationship with your husband is upsetting you (maybe she even gets a kick out of it?)
He lies to you about what he's doing with and for her - and doesn't actually care that you know that he has lied
He calls her his "best friend" - WTF?
He spend a fair amount of completely planned time alone with her
I'm not sure that the situation could be more stereotypically suspicious ... unless she was also, I don't know, a stripper called Juicy Angel who spent her days lounging around in a pink negligee.

Secondly - why isn't your husband working? If he dropped dead tomorrow, what would you do around childcare to still be able to work and support your family. (How would your family work without him?) Because, if you have a plan, even if you never intend to use it, it makes seeing things rationally far, far easier. 

The problem that you sit with is that your husband cannot admit to you or himself that he is having an inappropriate relationship. Because then he'd have to stop. And he's feeling way too good doing what he's doing to be OK with stopping. So you can challenge him as rationally or emotionally as you like. But I'm pretty sure you're not going to get anything more than a blanket denial. EA's can fly under the radar for a good while because ... you know .. "It's not like we kissed or anything!". Although, if he's reached the point where he's lying to you and is also visiting her alone, then the chances that at least that hasn't already happened are pretty non-zero. 

So you can carry on as you are ... until the signs that they are having an affair become completely undeniable. By which time, he will be even more entangled with her. And then you're going to get a divorce. And you'll feel like even more of a basket case along the way. Or, RIGHT NOW, you can make it impossible for him to have an affair and stay married to you. (You can't control both of these, only the one.) In my opinion, the only thing that is likely to work in your current situation is enforcing consequences. And no, he doesn't love you right now. You don't love someone and then treat them how he is treating you. You give a **** that your behaviour is making the person you "love" feel like ****. 

You've tried sweet reason. You've tried telling him that he's hurting you. You've tried "making him see" that what he's doing is not good for your marriage. And he doesn't care. Or at least, he doesn't care enough. What are you prepared to do to get him either fully in your marriage, or fully out? Knowing what I know now, in your shoes - I'd see a lawyer, sweetheart. And leave their business card lying around for him to see. And the next time that he went to "visit" her, I'd say that if he goes, he shouldn't bother coming back. 

I'd also like to unpack this school situation a bit. Is this the only available school? Because if you remove his "reason" for seeing her, then he'll have to be pretty blatant about things to keep contact. And little people get over it - my kids changed schools and cub scout troops to avoid interacting with the OW and her family. Yes, it was pretty disruptive, but the way I see it, divorce is going to be a lot more disruptive. And as a bonus, both the new schooling and scout situation are objectively better for our family, even with my husband's behaviour taken out of the mix. 

You don't trust him right now because your intuition is screaming at you - trust it.

Thoughts and strength to you.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Sounds like Mizzbak did well.

You either fight or you loose.

Good luck.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Mizzbak said:


> The problem that you sit with is that your husband cannot admit to you or himself that he is having an inappropriate relationship. Because then he'd have to stop. And he's feeling way too good doing what he's doing to be OK with stopping. So you can challenge him as rationally or emotionally as you like. But I'm pretty sure you're not going to get anything more than a blanket denial. EA's can fly under the radar for a good while because ... you know .. "It's not like we kissed or anything!". Although, if he's reached the point where he's lying to you and is also visiting her alone, then the chances that at least that hasn't already happened are pretty non-zero.
> 
> So you can carry on as you are ... until the signs that they are having an affair become completely undeniable. By which time, he will be even more entangled with her. And then you're going to get a divorce. And you'll feel like even more of a basket case along the way. Or, RIGHT NOW, you can make it impossible for him to have an affair and stay married to you. (You can't control both of these, only the one.)


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Well said truth. Especially the part where it says "The problem that you sit with is that your husband cannot admit to you or himself that he is having an inappropriate relationship. Because then he'd have to stop. And he's feeling way too good doing what he's doing to be OK with stopping. So you can challenge him as rationally or emotionally as you like. But I'm pretty sure you're not going to get anything more than a blanket denial."


----------



## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Thor said:


> Yes, Whattodo, be aware of this. SAHD can be a real ego wrecker for a man depending on the circumstances. It is also a marriage wrecker. Using broad generalizations which may not apply to you two, men are wired to go hunt for food and women are wired to need protection of a strong male. When those roles are reversed in modern society, the man can feel lost and a failure. And the woman can feel resentment towards her H and can lose feeling attraction to him. People do make SAHD work, but it is wise to be aware that the sociology can cause problems.


I agree with what you say, but the point I was trying to make is different. It is harder to be a SAHD than a SAHM for practical reasons. There aren't many SAHDs and so they don't have as much of a support network. Being a SAH can be a lonely existence that is usually dealt with by forming similar social groups. The SAHMs are hesitant to truly include SAHDs in their groups because it can be socially awkward. I've never seen that work.

I know of two cases of successful SAHD situations. One was a guy who had made a small fortune and retired at 40. His wife was a high powered lawyer and loved her career, so he was mostly a SAHD but also served on some local boards and was involved in a lot of volunteer groups. The other was a very successful computer programmer whose wife was a doctor. When their kids were very young, he stayed at home to be the primary caregiver, but he kept up with this programming skills and did occasional contract work. Once the kids got to school age, he started working again.

Every other SAHD situation I've seen has failed. To be fair, many of those SAHDs were people that were laid off or dropped out of the working world for other reasons. They entered into the situation with self-esteem baggage and the SAHD situation just made it worse.


----------

