# Why do fathers get the short end of the stick?



## F-102

Okay, I know that this will be a rant, but it is something that bugs me.

Yesterday, there was a huge article in the paper about how Procter& Gamble will run these ads during the Olympic games about how important mothers are to the athletes. I immediately wondered why no one seems to care about how important fathers are. I thought of that joke by Bill Cosby when the father's son wants to play football, so the father gets him the best football equipment there is, goes into the backyard with him and shows him how to catch the ball and run with it, takes him to all of his practices and never misses his games, encourages him until he gets a football scholarship and finally, he watches proudly as his son runs in the winning touchdown at the Rose Bowl, spikes the ball, turns to the TV cameras and says:

"Hi, Mom!"

I see it all the time. Kids in school are made to make projects and gifts for their mothers, but none for the fathers. Whenever a kid gets hurt, they run to their mothers. On TV shows, moms are always the ones who adore their kids and are always the smart parent who know just what to do to make things right and solve a problem, while dad is an overgrown man-child who is best avoided, a clueless, beer-swilling oaf whose only concern is the game on TV.

Divorce is made for mothers. They almost always get full custody while dear old dad is reduced to this guy that the kids see every other weekend and maybe a holiday or two if they're lucky. Oh, and dad, make sure that the child support is up to date, thank you.

Even in prisons, female inmates with children are given weekend long visits with their kids in special cells (like hotel rooms) because the department of corrections "knows how crucial and essential the mother-child bond is", while fathers in prison will get an extra five minutes looking thru a bullet-proof glass partition on Father's Day as their reward for good behavior.

It just seems that fathers are deemed unnecessary and redundant (and at times, repulsive) by society.


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## sfj

That's because in most cases it's the mother who is the caretaker.

There is also the reality that men do not bond with children in the same way that women do. There are a few maternal men out there, but it's not the norm. It's much easier for a man to walk away, imo, and it happens much more frequently. 

That's why you see the stereotype.


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## ScaredandUnsure

The female of the species, I'm afraid, it's pretty much how it is in most of nature. My kids love their dad, but when it comes down to it, they and I have a very tight bond. My dad bailed on me and my siblings with absolutely no second thought and to this day he doesn't give us a thought (if he does, he hides it well). My oldest sons father bailed on him. Unfortunately, it is easier for the man to walk away.


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## Gemwas

I have to disagree, Ive seen my brother as a grown man sit in tears broken hearted at access arrangements being broken with his children.

I had also seen a male friend fight tooth and nail with blood sweat tears and court cases for full custody of his child to get him out of a bad situation. He won and has done an astounding job of bringing that boy up on his own.

Dads get a BAD deal, they have to work twice as hard, they dont get the same rights, they have to screw up just once to be demonised where a mother can screw up time after time and still be given sympathy and chances by society. For every bad father there is another bad mum and its wrong the way Dads get treated.


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## LoveMouse

I was just reading about how that is so out dated, most families are broken b/c of dear 'ol mom, where it used to be the drunk, cheating father....now it's the over medicated, cheating mom....tables are turning fast and so are the laws. Here in IN, the father has as much rights as the father, mom is granted custody but only b/c she "needs" the money and she's afraid what the the rest of the world will think if she just ran off w/ her BF, lleaving the kids behind.....oh...that wouldn't work.....she would look bad. Well I'm here to tell you, WHOXES do not live "happily ever after", it's just not in the cards....just like our drunk, abusive fathers didn't get invited to Christmas...neither will she, and the good news is, I don't have to say, or do anything, she does this all on her own. Now, the way I see custody, she's got to have a court order that makes the kids stay w/ her. LMAO If they had a choice, they'd never leave dad....winning is in the heart, not in the court b/c the kids all grow up, they'll remember who loved them, who was there for them and who BROKE up the family.
Mouse


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## 827Aug

I guess it depends on where you are sitting. For a long time after this dang separation, I thought my estranged husband was the big winner in the situation. After all he was the "fun" parent. I even started a thread about the "non fun" parent finishing last.

As my children matured a bit, things have changed. Recent comments coming out of my 18 year old daughters' mouths has been very telling. "My dad is not a parent, he is a playmate." "Dad can't judge me for dating a guy three years older than me because he dates women my age." "No need to call dad about a problem; he won't answer the call anyway." Those are just a few of the lines I've heard. Just a year ago, I wouldn't have ever imagined I would hear anything like that.

No matter what gender you are, strive to be the best parent you can be. You will gain more respect by being a parent to your children. Also, be there for them as best you can. It's not about who can spend the most money on them or the most time with them. It's about quality not quantity.


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## Cherry

F-102 said:


> Divorce is made for mothers. They almost always get full custody while dear old dad is reduced to this guy that the kids see every other weekend and maybe a holiday or two if they're lucky. Oh, and dad, make sure that the child support is up to date, thank you.


I lost custody of my children to my H, at first. However, if we had been civil to each other, the court would've accepted 50/50 shared. Our lawyers wanted us to work out our custody arrangement amongst ourselves, instead of leaving it up to the court to decide.... So it's not so black/white nowadays in family court, or at least here in our state.

I think the other poster's make a good point about the mother being the caregiver. Like Angel, I do all those little things that my H doesn't have the time or patience to do. My kids come to us all the time about little boo-boo's on their knee's or elbows, my H just blows it off, meanwhile I'm trying to make it all better. They ask a ton of questions too, my H doesn't stop to listen to them, or answer them... He claims not to hear what they are asking, etc. Not saying my H is a bad parent, he just thinks these little things that kids do are not important, or something... If they lose a shoe, instead of helping them look for it, he will scold them for not putting their shoes where they belong. I get up and help them find it. Little things like that.

I don't know.


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## chillymorn

its case by case ....just like which gender cheats more 50/50 in my book .

sometimes the mother is the better parent and sometimes the farther is.in the end if you did your job as a parent when they matuer they will let you know.


with that said I still think the court system lean in favor of the mother. although it seems to be getting more fair with alot of fathers getting equal custody.


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## LoveMouse

While reading thru these posts I can see most of you are right, it's your life and you see things thru your eyes, I am no different.
NPD, look it up.
My X is from a family who have/had/are NPD....and there are a few other PD's but for the most part it's NPD. It's what I live w/ and my children suffer thru. Mother daughter relationships are like a gang, they stick to eachother like glue and mother is NEVER wrong! Mother is to be worshiped and if you don't....well lets just say the emotional pain she'll cause you will destroy any future relationships you ever plan on having. Sick stuff.
My X has control over the OD but the rest of the kids CLING to the normalality of myself and my GF.....we just love them, we cuddle when cuddles are needed, we share everything, we SPEND TIME W/ THEM, on things they want to do, but yet we maintain our own lives, wants and desires.
When I met my GF, the 3 kids were so excited, they wanted to meet her, they wanted to talk to her, shop w/ her, bake, sled, clean house or anything b/c they were STARVED for a normal mother~like figure in their lives. I told them from day 1, she's my GF, she's for me, if you don't like her it's ok, just be honest, let me know and she doesn't have to be here when you are. I've never had a problem, infact they always ask if she can be here and she loves them as well.
ON THE OTHER HAND...MOTHER's new BF (and there have been more than a few) is always there, he never goes home, the kids don't like him and they have been told to like him, spend time w/ him, he has run of the house....and if you don't....you'll lose ur phone, or worse, no more extra time w/ ur daddy.
I am sure my case is different, it's so easy to be the "GOOD GUY" when the X is SATAN but hey, she chose to be like that, I haven't changed, she did....or should I say it was the anti~depressants?
Whatever happens in court, it is what it is, ur kids and the time you get is a blessing. Just being ur self, loving the children, ignoring the X, and being happy w/ what you get will build ur relationships w/ them, in the future they will remember and want to be w/ you.
Teaching the kids to stay up later than bed time, letting them bend the rules will backfire in time, it's your rules that they'll bend and break next....lots of bad times coming up w/ the teenage years...teens love to rebel and they will rememeber who taught them to get what they want and not what is right.
Mouse


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## DTO

sfj said:


> That's because in most cases it's the mother who is the caretaker.
> 
> There is also the reality that men do not bond with children in the same way that women do. There are a few maternal men out there, but it's not the norm. It's much easier for a man to walk away, imo, and it happens much more frequently.
> 
> That's why you see the stereotype.


I am going to have to agree with this. If there is a discrepancy in how much a child bonds with each parent, the bias will be in favor of the parent who is more involved / invested. It has nothing to do with gender, and only partially to do with hours worked outside the home and what not.

Now, I'm between jobs and finishing up an MBA, so I'm still quite busy. But even back before I got laid off (as well as currently), I wiped the runny noses, did the school activities, etc. This is despite me working longer hours than my ex.

And this has in turn caused my daughter to turn to me first for her needs from a very young age (way before my ex bailed). Kids have a really good sense for the underlying level of commitment you bring. I guess you can say I'm one of those rare maternal types, but I'm reaping the benefits of a tight bond with the children.


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## F-102

DTO, are you a mother or father?


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## DTO

F-102 said:


> DTO, are you a mother or father?


The father.


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## FirstYearDown

My mother gets the short end of the stick, because she was an abusive parent. She did most of the childrearing and the poor woman was just stressed out with four kids. 

My father is more loved by his adult children because he is easier to deal with. He is not meddling nor does he enjoy making people uncomfortable with screaming scenes. 

So it depends on the relationship that the parents build with their children. Naturally, kids will gravitate towards the parent who does not beat them or call them names.


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## specwar

Yep, the others are right. Generically the mothers are the caregivers and interact based on feeling.

Men in general are seen as the doers and the practical and don't nurture like the mother does. With all that said I agree with the generic assesment. 

The bias with regards to the court is simply wrong. They are biased and that is wrong of them. But I can't change it.

The bias goes much deeper than that if you think about it for more than a few minutes. For example, If you want the mother to have an abortion you have (no say at all) and if she has the baby you pay for 18 years married or not. If she wants the abortion you have (no say) and the baby is killed.

If you hit a woman in the stomach because you don't want a baby you can be charged with assault on the wife and murder if the baby dies. Even though (the liberal laws) in this country state that it is not a baby.

If the woman hits herself in the stomach and the baby dies it is an abortion and there are no charges filed because it is not a baby. Interesting how in the first scenario it is a baby when it comes to a man and when it is the woman (no it is certainly not)

The bias is repulsive and intellectually dishonest.


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## that_girl

In my class we make gifts for moms and dads.

It's sad though, that in my class, MOST of the kids do not even know their dads so they make the gifts for their mom (on Father's Day) or grandpa's/uncles. 

Maybe that's why? But I always give opportunity to praise the moms AND the dads in my classroom. 

And in this house, Father's Day is a big day! Even when it lands on my bday


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## EleGirl

In the schools my chilren went to, they made gifts for both parents. There was never a gift for just mom or just dad.

I got primary custody of my son in 1996 when I divorced my son's father because we went through a lengthly custody evaluation. I was my son's primary care giver. My son's father is an abusive person.. emotionally and physically. The evaluators did determine that he was abusive and had some serious problems. But even with that our arrangement was 60/40. When my son was in 10th grade he had a fight with his father... a physcial fight since he finally protected himself. It was the last time he has ever stayed with at his father's house. Son is 23 now. 

My step children are closer to me than to either of their parents... because I am the one who took care of them from financial support to emotional support and everything else. Their mother lived 2000 miles away and their father (who I was married to) spent all his time on the computer playing games, did not work and ignored them. He did have 100% custody of his children because his wife walked out on him and the children. But once he moved in with me just turned his back on the children.

My point is that it's a case by case basis. Our courts are recognizing that both parents are necessary. So more and more 50/50 custody is the norm.


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## FirstYearDown

I think daughters need their daddies to show them how a woman should be treated. This sets the stage for healthier relationships with men when the daughters grow up. I see so many women who had absent or abusive fathers pick men who are of the same ilk. So sad.

Sons need fathers to teach them how to be men. There are some things that moms can't teach sons about, just the same with mothers. I couldn't imagine going bra or sanitary napkin shopping with my dad-both of us would have died from embarassment. 

My father is hardworking, kind and he has always doted on me as his only daughter. However, he was a cheater. His infidelity led to me believing that most (if not all) men are unfaithful. You can't imagine how hard it is to shake that conviction.

Sometimes I see mothers winning custody cases when they have no business raising children. I think the courts need to be more mindful of unfit mothers instead of automatically awarding custody to the woman.


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## anotherguy

F-102.. I dont know your story... but you sound a bit over sensitive on the topic?

I wouldnt take too many social cues from TV as it basks in the glow of easy, insane, and hyperbolic stereotypes for a quick laugh. As for people in prison that are getting visits from their kids... get used to following the rules - thats what prison is.

"fathers deemed unnecessary and redundant (and at times repulsive).."

yeah, I dont think so. As soon as you take a close and honest look at blanket assertions regarding fatherly or motherly fitness and presumed social regard like these...they fall apart.

I think many of us know fathers that are losers, as well as mothers. We also know great moms... and great dads. And if your kid happens to grin into the TV camera and say 'Hi Mom!'... what again is the problem? That you feel left out?

I know lots of moms that were the unwavering cheerleaders for their kids and brought the most empathy in many ways. Dads too, but just as often dada dads operate in a different sphere of influence like how to change a tire or the rules for acting honerably etc. Its not better or worse.. it can just be different. Frankly - I didnt realize how lucky I was to have the father I did until I got older.

let it go man.


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## Jayb

I'm one of those active dads who is involved in all aspects of our childrens' lives; maybe in a minority of men with children.

Nearing divorce, my wife and I both realize and appreciate the importance each other plays in parenting. We have a 50-50 co-parenting plan.

However, I thought about how women generally get the better end of child-caring in divorce cases, etc. But, it irritates me, who does equal, if not more.

My wife said that's just the way children are. They love their moms;they'd rather be with their moms.

It's heartbreaking for me to hear that. I have dealt with our childrens' emotions far more than she. I have been there and will be there.

I assume that it is easier for women to have their cake and eat it too. Meaning, transgress in the marriage, and then in divorce, dictate the terms of the children.

The whole Custody/Visitation mentality still pervades thinking; it is to the benefit of women. And, I'm one of those dads who wants to fight this stereotype in an effort to make it fairer for dads who are active in their childrens' lives.

Of course, I appreciate the role that mothers play in parenting. My wife is an excellent mother.


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## Cherry

Jayb said:


> The whole Custody/Visitation mentality still pervades thinking; it is to the benefit of women. And, I'm one of those dads who wants to fight this stereotype in an effort to make it fairer for dads who are active in their childrens' lives.


Having gone through what could have become a nightmare of a custody battle, my lawyer informed me that our family courts here start with 50/50 custody, when no mutual agreement is reached among the parties, and work from there. 

There are still many old school judges sitting on the bench, who automatically assume a child is better off with the mother being the primary caregiver. It wasn't too long ago that women traditionally did provide all of the nurturing and care to their children and stayed home, and the father was the sole breadwinner, away from the home much more than the mother. The way to continue to change this way of thinking is by actions, more fathers standing up for their rights in court. Fathers can't go in the court thinking all is lost and that the mother will automatically win full custody.
Fight for the right to 50/50 at the very least, or more if it would be in the best interest of the child(ren).

I firmly believe in most custody cases, that is what the goal is -- the best interest of the child.


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## that_girl

I didn't see my dad from ages 7 to 21. Yea. It effed me up for a long time.

Is this the norm? I am not sure. I know way more men who walk away from their kids than I do mothers who leave. But that's just been my experience.


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## gav

I have full custody of my kids, because EXW has mental issues. I still worry about her finding some compliant judge somewhere and getting custody, but my brain says that it's been long enough and the law here is clear enough that nothing would happen.

Who knows...


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## Jayb

Cherry said:


> Having gone through what could have become a nightmare of a custody battle, my lawyer informed me that our family courts here start with 50/50 custody, when no mutual agreement is reached among the parties, and work from there.
> 
> There are still many old school judges sitting on the bench, who automatically assume a child is better off with the mother being the primary caregiver. It wasn't too long ago that women traditionally did provide all of the nurturing and care to their children and stayed home, and the father was the sole breadwinner, away from the home much more than the mother. The way to continue to change this way of thinking is by actions, more fathers standing up for their rights in court. Fathers can't go in the court thinking all is lost and that the mother will automatically win full custody.
> Fight for the right to 50/50 at the very least, or more if it would be in the best interest of the child(ren).
> 
> I firmly believe in most custody cases, that is what the goal is -- the best interest of the child.


I'm in a state with a baseline of 50-50 co-parenting as well. Best interest of the child guides decisions.

However, I'd be happier with more time/responsibility. But, she is a good mother, so, I should stop there.

It can get blurry when the childrens' primary residence is with the mother, who then thinks she drives the decisions. Back to the custody/visitation circle...


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## DTO

FirstYearDown said:


> I couldn't imagine going bra or sanitary napkin shopping with my dad-both of us would have died from embarassment.


Interesting. Did you always feel that way, or was that more of an age-related "oh my god what if somebody sees us" type of thing that developed? I'm curious because my daughter is not at all ashamed about having me do those things with her. I take her to buy whatever she needs, get her hair done (even fancily for special occassions) and (just now) to get her nails polished.

I'm not embarrassed about doing those things either for the act itself or for typically being the only guy in close proximity. I look at it as doing what it takes to provide her with the things girls like (it's a good thing I understand the importance of the frilly stuff).

Hopefully that won't change too much. Even if it does, I've arranged support to make sure everything is covered.


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## Goldmember357

F-102 said:


> Okay, I know that this will be a rant, but it is something that bugs me.
> 
> Yesterday, there was a huge article in the paper about how Procter& Gamble will run these ads during the Olympic games about how important mothers are to the athletes. I immediately wondered why no one seems to care about how important fathers are. I thought of that joke by Bill Cosby when the father's son wants to play football, so the father gets him the best football equipment there is, goes into the backyard with him and shows him how to catch the ball and run with it, takes him to all of his practices and never misses his games, encourages him until he gets a football scholarship and finally, he watches proudly as his son runs in the winning touchdown at the Rose Bowl, spikes the ball, turns to the TV cameras and says:
> 
> "Hi, Mom!"
> 
> I see it all the time. Kids in school are made to make projects and gifts for their mothers, but none for the fathers. Whenever a kid gets hurt, they run to their mothers. On TV shows, moms are always the ones who adore their kids and are always the smart parent who know just what to do to make things right and solve a problem, while dad is an overgrown man-child who is best avoided, a clueless, beer-swilling oaf whose only concern is the game on TV.
> 
> Divorce is made for mothers. They almost always get full custody while dear old dad is reduced to this guy that the kids see every other weekend and maybe a holiday or two if they're lucky. Oh, and dad, make sure that the child support is up to date, thank you.
> 
> Even in prisons, female inmates with children are given weekend long visits with their kids in special cells (like hotel rooms) because the department of corrections "knows how crucial and essential the mother-child bond is", while fathers in prison will get an extra five minutes looking thru a bullet-proof glass partition on Father's Day as their reward for good behavior.
> 
> It just seems that fathers are deemed unnecessary and redundant (and at times, repulsive) by society.


Its not some Conspiracy against men although radical feminist may be in favor of that. 


I am a lawyer i have done many divorce cases and the reason the system favors' women and is bias is cause of men's actions as a whole. Not saying all men abuse or cheat or are bad fathers but the vast vast majority of the time its men causing the problems. 

Of course some people are in denial and think its a conspiracy against males. It really is not


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## Goldmember357

FirstYearDown said:


> I think daughters need their daddies to show them how a woman should be treated. This sets the stage for healthier relationships with men when the daughters grow up. I see so many women who had absent or abusive fathers pick men who are of the same ilk. So sad.
> 
> Sons need fathers to teach them how to be men. There are some things that moms can't teach sons about, just the same with mothers. I couldn't imagine going bra or sanitary napkin shopping with my dad-both of us would have died from embarassment.
> 
> My father is hardworking, kind and he has always doted on me as his only daughter. However, he was a cheater. His infidelity led to me believing that most (if not all) men are unfaithful. You can't imagine how hard it is to shake that conviction.
> 
> Sometimes I see mothers winning custody cases when they have no business raising children. I think the courts need to be more mindful of unfit mothers instead of automatically awarding custody to the woman.


Women are given custody more so cause the vast majority of the time its the most logical choice. Although as you surely know most people who have children are hardly good parents in the world and really should not raise children. 

I think its important that a child have a mother and a father but if they cant have both they can still grow up and be fine as long as other things are met. Its true or correct in that girls with good relationships with there fathers or a strong male figure who acts as a father is imperative in often how they view they should be treated by other males. They are not longing for say or desperate for male attention or security there "daddy" will always protect them and be the best male they will know in there life until they marry. 

Of course yes i realize not all fathers are good same with mothers this was just a generalization and assuming it goes correctly. However general consensus is that the female plays a little more of a role than the father does in both sexes for child development. Its only natural they tend to breastfeed there children their are different bonds and connections they might share.


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## FirstYearDown

DTO said:


> Interesting. Did you always feel that way, or was that more of an age-related "oh my god what if somebody sees us" type of thing that developed? I'm curious because my daughter is not at all ashamed about having me do those things with her. I take her to buy whatever she needs, get her hair done (even fancily for special occassions) and (just now) to get her nails polished.
> 
> I'm not embarrassed about doing those things either for the act itself or for typically being the only guy in close proximity. I look at it as doing what it takes to provide her with the things girls like (it's a good thing I understand the importance of the frilly stuff).
> 
> Hopefully that won't change too much. Even if it does, I've arranged support to make sure everything is covered.


My father never had a talk with me about sex. He was disgusted by the idea of his baby girl becoming a woman, so buying reminders of that fact was off limits.


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