# It still hurts



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

So currently in an IHS. Our first divorce hearing is next week. We don’t get along, we don’t speak and it’s contentious. On Valentine’s Day, I came home the doctor after work to a note that my kids and stbx were sleeping at her moms. I was not given the option to keep them with me. Come to find out she spent the night with an exbf and picked up the kids the next morning and came back home.

Getting in the shower last night she knocks on the door and asks if I am going out. I say no. She says she dropping off something at a friends house and will be back in 20 minutes. She comes back two hours later and we pass each other in the hall. I say something like “last nights booty call wasn’t enough you went back again”. She looked like she saw a ghost. She had no idea I knew. 

Man, didn’t think this would hit me so hard to find out she’s getting laid. I’m bummed this weekend. Lord, I can’t wait for this to be over and I get out of this house. 

Yes, I documented everything. The kids will be appointed a court law guardian and I have a lot of notes on her behavior.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Getting a divorce was _the_ most painful event of my life. 

I'm very sorry for everything you're going through.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I've been following your posts, and this one hit me right in the gut. I'm so sorry that you're going through what you're going through, man. As cliche as it sounds, keep your head up and know that days/weeks/months like these will be a faint memory one day...and you'll be happy again.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I've been following your posts, and this one hit me right in the gut. I'm so sorry that you're going through what you're going through, man. As cliche as it sounds, keep your head up and know that days/weeks/months like these will be a faint memory one day...and you'll be happy again.


Thank you for that. This hit me like a ton of bricks. I’ve got little family close to me, but I’m going to my brothers house today to talk to someone. I haven’t been this sad in a long, long time. It feels like another dday to me, even thought the divorce has been filed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I’m a little confused because you’ve been going on dates and talking to women. I kind of thought you are also trying to get back out there and would have had sex with someone by now if all things lined up right. 

I know sometimes we hurt anyway even if we are doing the same things an ex is doing.

But reading your posts on the singles thread, I thought you had been saying you are ready for all of this?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I’m a little confused because you’ve been going on dates and talking to women. I kind of thought you are also trying to get back out there and would have had sex with someone by now if all things lined up right.
> 
> I know sometimes we hurt anyway even if we are doing the same things an ex is doing.
> 
> But reading your posts on the singles thread, I thought you had been saying you are ready for all of this?


True I spoke to one girl, had one date. I'm not saying it's fair for me to feel the way I do, I'm just saying how I feel. Seeing her out there connecting really had an effect on me. A bad one. I know I don't have my **** together and this is obvious. Her not giving me the option to have the kids home with me was again painful. The lying her mom and her do to cover up her bad behavior is also painful.

I'm not saying it's right, I just feel sad about the whole thing. I have not or would not ever spend a night away from my kids, dump them off on a family member for a booty call and that's exactly what she did.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I’m a little confused because you’ve been going on dates and talking to women. I kind of thought you are also trying to get back out there and would have had sex with someone by now if all things lined up right.
> ...


For your own sanity, an IHS needs some ground rules. You need to sit and have a talk with her about what is ok and what is not for dating others. Be honest with her that you will be going on some dates too and maybe negotiate one a week for each of you to be away from the house no questions asked.

I know this does hurt. But you are on a hard path with IHS. This is going to keep bumping into your heart. You will have to just get through it. I don’t know your full story but most people can’t handle an IHS. I actually recommend you get out of it and one of you move out nearby. Have you checked out what is called nesting? For divorced parents. 

But since that’s probably not likely and you will continue with the IHS, why dump the kids anywhere for dates or booty calls. Just be available to watch kids yourselves on each other’s night off. You’re going to be making a booty call one of these days soon.

As we talked about in the singles thread though, I think you aren’t quite as ready as you think you are but I also think you should keep distracting yourself as much as you can.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I found IHS to be extremely difficult and if I had it to do over I would have done things differently. At the time, it made sense but I learned that what makes sense on paper can be a very different story when you are living it. All I can suggest is not focusing on anything your wife does. If you don’t, you’re in for a rough time.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

In home separations absolutely suck. You can't heal while it's going on, so naturally everything she does is blatantly in your face and will hurt. Do you have a timeline for how long it has to last, or is there no end in sight?

While you have to endure it, encourage her to get out of the house as much as she likes. Don't focus on your own dating. Just encourage your ex to leave as much as possible and spend the time with your kids. Get her used to leaving them with you instead of her mother. Be the stable parent in their lives until you have separate homes and an access arrangement to follow.

And when she's there, don't engage with her. Treat her like a roommate you barely know and don't want to know. Talk about essential household logistics and nothing else.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

We don’t speak at all. I broke down yesterday in my room all afternoon. She insisted on coming in because she was worried about me and the door was locked. I let her in. She was asking what was wrong. I didn’t answer I was just crying. My brother called and invited me to dinner with him and SIL. I needed that. This morning she offered to buy me out of the house. I told her we would get an appraisal. If she’s serious, this would be a huge step in the right direction for me. Fingers crossed!!


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> We don’t speak at all. I broke down yesterday in my room all afternoon. She insisted on coming in because she was worried about me and the door was locked. I let her in. She was asking what was wrong. I didn’t answer I was just crying. My brother called and invited me to dinner with him and SIL. I needed that. This morning she offered to buy me out of the house. I told her we would get an appraisal. If she’s serious, this would be a huge step in the right direction for me. Fingers crossed!!


I think a buyout is the best case scenario for all involved right now. I'm glad that that is suddenly an option for you. I really hope that works out the way she presented it. Maybe start working on getting an appraisal done ASAP so she can't change her mind, if she's truly agreeing to that right now. That would be a wonderful first step in ending the IHS that sounds like emotional hell right now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why doesnt she do the right thing and move her skanky ass OUT of your house??


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

In addition to what FF has suggested I’d recommend putting a blurb on your online dating account that states something about not being ready and looking for people to talk to. I see this all the time on men’s profiles on POF. When you think about it, online dating sites are a good place to go to talk with people who’re going through the same thing. Worth a shot imo.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why doesnt she do the right thing and move her skanky ass OUT of your house??




How is she a skanky ass and why would you say it is his house? They are separated and both are dating. The house is marital property. Unless I missed something...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Talk to a lawyer. 

Next time you come home to a note, change the locks. 

You might have a case for her being the one that left the house. 

You are just going to increase your trauma and conflict the kids will pick up on if you keep trying to live with her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Making some headway. Court is next week, so the time to negotiate has come. I think a lot hinges on if I agree to joint legal custody but giving her residential custody. I haven’t agreed to that yet, because that opens me up to cs. But if she’s willing to let me have the kids at least one night a week and every other weekend, it’s a starting point. If she’s flexible on the finances and willing to buy me out of the house, for my own sanity I’d have to consider it. 

She’s not a skank. She’s just light years ahead of me in this process and has apparently been “done” for quite sometime now. She’s obviously ready to date and has found someone and I am not ready. I think the fact that she found someone gives her a soft landing, thus the sudden willingness to negotiate. My state is a tough state to get divorced in. People can get hurt, painfully. I’m looking to avoid that hit.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I will also say that the process of having a court appointed law guardian interview us and then the kids, asking 8 year olds if they’d rather live with mommy or daddy, who feeds you, who does your homework, who gives you showers makes me sick to my stomach. I can’t imagine putting them through that. This process is so ****ed up.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> She’s not a skank. She’s just light years ahead of me in this process and has apparently been “done” for quite sometime now. She’s obviously ready to date and has found someone and I am not ready. I think the fact that she found someone gives her a soft landing, thus the sudden willingness to negotiate. My state is a tough state to get divorced in. People can get hurt, painfully. I’m looking to avoid that hit.


I am not so sure about this one. I think over time you will find out different. I hope it helps you heal when you actually realize she was not all that... 

Because she was not.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RebuildingMe said:


> Making some headway. Court is next week, so the time to negotiate has come. I think a lot hinges on if I agree to joint legal custody but giving her residential custody. I haven’t agreed to that yet, because that opens me up to cs. But if she’s willing to let me have the kids at least one night a week and every other weekend, it’s a starting point. If she’s flexible on the finances and willing to buy me out of the house, for my own sanity I’d have to consider it.


 @RebuildingMe, 

I can't for the life of me figure out why you would agree to this. Let me just say this out loud: would you ever, in your wildest dreams, EXPECT her to agree to joint legal custody, but YOU get residential custody? In more concrete terms, would you ever expect her to agree to only having the kids one night a week and every other weekend...and YOU have them all the rest of the time? If not, then why in the world would YOU agree to that? 

You are their equal parent, exactly the same as her. You are their FATHER, and they need their father as much or more than they need their mother. So at minimum I would recommend agreeing to 50/50 legal custody and residential custody. One week with you...one week with her. Or 4-3-3-4. Or something similar. 

Now I get it--she has sort of dangled "buying you out of the house" so the IHS won't have to continue, and you're thinking "I'll give up something if she'll give up something." Let me put this to you in a realistic way: if she continues to try to control your parenting of the kids and the divorce and the finances and ... and... and... then she is heading toward an EYE-OPENING experience when the judge ORDERS (not suggests, but orders with power of enforcement), that the two of you SELL the house and each get your own place and 50% of the equity goes to each of you. And when the judge ORDERS that the kids stay with you HALF OF THE TIME and she can't interfere with your parenting. And when the judge ORDERS that you get half the finances and half the debt... same as her. 

She just is not going to get the house, all the equity, all the finances, and all the time with the kids...and you just are not going to get all the debt and moved out! That's not how this works. 

Thus, my recommendation is to be FIRM but wise. Accept nothing less than 50% custody (week-week... 4-3-3-4...whatever is half). 

It may be that you are willing to go your own way and earn your own wage and have the kids half the time in your own home (that she will have literally no say about), and you choose to not request CS. I did that. My exH earned $6-7k/mo and I earned like $2.5k but I could take care of myself and I made custody my hill to die on. 

It may be that you are willing to let her buy you out of the house, so that she stays in the current home and pays you half the equity in cash (so you can get your own place). That should have literally no effect on the custody. They aren't related. 

It may be that you are willing to do ___ or ___ or ___ but do not sell yourself short when it comes to your kids and custody. 

I think what would REALLY help you would be to read the actual laws about divorce for your state. For example, maybe you know a lot of dads who were screwed in their divorces by their xW's having shark lawyers. Well... the more you know about what the law actually is, the more you can help yourself and your attorney make a good case FOR YOU...and make a defense for what STBX's lawyer will likely claim!! Knowledge is power. So let me know your state and I'll send you a link to your laws.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

RebuildingMe said:


> She’s not a skank. She’s just light years ahead of me in this process and has apparently been “done” for quite sometime now. She’s obviously ready to date and has found someone and I am not ready. I think the fact that she found someone gives her a soft landing, thus the sudden willingness to negotiate. My state is a tough state to get divorced in. People can get hurt, painfully. I’m looking to avoid that hit.



Well said. Obviously you have put a lot of thought into your situation. Keep the high road. You wouldn’t want to end up bitter like some...uhhh...let’s just leave that right there 




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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Affaircare said:


> @RebuildingMe,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Excellent post!!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Affaircare said:


> @RebuildingMe,
> 
> I can't for the life of me figure out why you would agree to this. Let me just say this out loud: would you ever, in your wildest dreams, EXPECT her to agree to joint legal custody, but YOU get residential custody? In more concrete terms, would you ever expect her to agree to only having the kids one night a week and every other weekend...and YOU have them all the rest of the time? If not, then why in the world would YOU agree to that?
> 
> ...


AC- I really appreciate what you said. I know what you are telling me. In my mind, these kids are going to be 9. Before I know it, they will be teenagers. At that time, they are going to pick when they want to come and when they don’t. When they want to hang out with friends and when they want to hang out with dad/mom. Why not negotiate favorable financial terms now? The decisions now will have lasting effects, financially and for the children. I don’t make any of these decisions lightly and I won’t do anything without my attorney’s advice.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I'm fully with @Affaircare on this one. Split custody, both physical and legal, should be an absolute STARTING point in ANY child custody negotiations. 50% equal custody for both parents. It would be a damn shame down the road for the kids to find out that you had a shot to have them more often than one day per week and every-other weekend, but didn't go for it. You're right...the day will come when the kids will be able to make decision on their own. It would just suck for them to make a decision based on any kind of resentment they might come up with that you didn't negotiate or find a way to have them with you more of the time. I'm sure your lawyer will work on finding a way for you to get equal custody...if not, I would start questioning the way he/she does business.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I am moving out of the house tonight. Informed stbx. If I am not healthy, what good am I to my kids?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am moving out of the house tonight. Informed stbx. If I am not healthy, what good am I to my kids?


Have you run this by your attorney? Always, always cover thine ass.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am moving out of the house tonight. Informed stbx. If I am not healthy, what good am I to my kids?




Yes...please check with your attorney. 

I too reached a point where I just couldn’t take it anymore. Luckily, the house sold a couple months later. BUT...we already had a separation agreement in place. Be careful. 


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am moving out of the house tonight. Informed stbx. If I am not healthy, what good am I to my kids?


Good! Where are you going, do you have a friend to stay with?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Good! Where are you going, do you have a friend to stay with?


I am staying in my brother’s apartment. He offered it months ago but I didn’t want to leave. Now I have to. It’s about 30 minutes away but it’s brand new and it’s free. I was in the ER with chest pains 7 hours today. I can’t stay here any longer. I’ve been her live nanny while she goes out on dates several nights a week, flaunting it in my face with her 4 hour yoga classes. I will be better off when I don’t see this anymore. We have court on Monday. I will tell my attorney then. If he tells me to move back, I will. 

She made me another offer today. We are getting close. I will end up paying CS, it will be a 60/40 split with time. She will buy me out of our house and give me our (my) investment condo with no buyout. She’s a teacher and her work schedule meshes with the kids numerous days/weeks/summers off. Mine does not. I’m doing what I need to do to move on. 
My 40% time with the kids will be even more special for all 3 of us. 

FW, one of these days, dinner is on me!


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am staying in my brother’s apartment. He offered it months ago but I didn’t want to leave. Now I have to. It’s about 30 minutes away but it’s brand new and it’s free. I was in the ER with chest pains 7 hours today. I can’t stay here any longer. I’ve been her live nanny while she goes out on dates several nights a week, flaunting it in my face with her 4 hour yoga classes. I will be better off when I don’t see this anymore. We have court on Monday. I will tell my attorney then. If he tells me to move back, I will.
> 
> She made me another offer today. We are getting close. I will end up paying CS, it will be a 60/40 split with time. She will buy me out of our house and give me our (my) investment condo with no buyout. She’s a teacher and her work schedule meshes with the kids numerous days/weeks/summers off. Mine does not. I’m doing what I need to do to move on.
> My 40% time with the kids will be even more special for all 3 of us.


I am glad you are getting out of the house. I wouldn't have been able to deal with the constant disrespect and told her it was her or me. I was glad she didn't want any part of having to deal with the house, so she left.

I don't think you should accept anything less that 50/50 either. Why does she have leverage, there? I don't think it will help you to move on any more.... she's already reduced her demands pretty quickly.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am staying in my brother’s apartment. He offered it months ago but I didn’t want to leave. Now I have to. It’s about 30 minutes away but it’s brand new and it’s free. I was in the ER with chest pains 7 hours today. I can’t stay here any longer. I’ve been her live nanny while she goes out on dates several nights a week, flaunting it in my face with her 4 hour yoga classes. I will be better off when I don’t see this anymore. We have court on Monday. I will tell my attorney then. If he tells me to move back, I will.
> 
> She made me another offer today. We are getting close. I will end up paying CS, it will be a 60/40 split with time. She will buy me out of our house and give me our (my) investment condo with no buyout. She’s a teacher and her work schedule meshes with the kids numerous days/weeks/summers off. Mine does not. I’m doing what I need to do to move on.
> My 40% time with the kids will be even more special for all 3 of us.
> ...


If you find yourself out in Portland - let me know! We have so many excellent restaurants. :grin2:

So glad you made this decision. As far as the legal implications, I don't think it should be a problem if your W also wants you out. She would have to claim abandonment or whatever, but she would only do that to screw you over, so if it looks like right now she is playing nice you should be ok. Of course check with your attorney but I would say your health is far more important than following legal mumbo jumbo!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RebuildingMe said:


> AC- I really appreciate what you said. I know what you are telling me. In my mind, these kids are going to be 9. Before I know it, they will be teenagers. At that time, they are going to pick when they want to come and when they don’t. When they want to hang out with friends and when they want to hang out with dad/mom. Why not negotiate favorable financial terms now? The decisions now will have lasting effects, financially and for the children. I don’t make any of these decisions lightly and I won’t do anything without my attorney’s advice.


 @RebuildingMe, 

I'm not suggesting that you are making these decisions lightly, but if you're children at 9yo now, just by simple mathematics it will be four years until they are teenagers. So for the next four years, your plan is to lay low and let their major influence be your STBXW...and you will be a minor influence in their life for FOUR YEARS (which will be about 1/3 of their entire life when they are 12yo). Rather than speaking up for yourself and standing for your rights as their adult parent--and their rights to have a fully involved father--you plan to not be as involved in their life, let them live with four years of whatever your STBXW may say about you and may teach them, and then in four years (1/3 of their life) they will be the one to have to stand up to spend time with you. In other words, you are putting it on your kids to do what you aren't willing to do now. 

Now, @RebuildingMe, I am not saying this to you to be mean, even though I'm fairly sure it will feel that way to you. Seriously, I know how foundation-shattering a divorce experience can feel. But for your own self-esteem, self-worth, and pride in yourself, I suggest that you consider this one question: what is the ONE HILL you are willing to die on? Honestly? Everything can be negotiated, but it comes down to values. What do you value?

And yep, there will be a financial impact, both to you and to your STBXW. I'm sure both of you will feel "poorer" because now you two combine salaries, and after divorce you will both have to care for the kids on half what you have now. But in some ways financial things just are what they are. Finances can be rebuilt. Credit can be rebuilt. New (to you) items can be purchased. Homes can be made even in a smaller, but decent, rental if need be! Home is not the building--it's the love of family within the space, and it's the caring for one another that makes it a home. 

But what CAN NOT be rebuilt is time! If you lose four years with your kids, that is time you'll never get back. If they go from a 9yo who's playing baseball to a 13yo in middle school who's got trust issues, abuse issues, and a fatal view of what love is--that is time you can not get back and those are issues that might be a problem for life! If they go from a 9yo who's playig baseball to a 13yo in middle school who had it tough but who knows for a fact that dad has their back--that is a life lesson that is worth fighting for!

Trust me, a good home that has tuna casserole and has to save up for the cool gadget but has LOVING, healthy parenting ... is much, MUCH more valuable than a house with steak and all the cool gadgets, but an absent father. Kids know who is loving them and teaching them...and who is trying to buy their love. So be the father you "want to be"


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> @RebuildingMe,
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you are making these decisions lightly, but if you're children at 9yo now, just by simple mathematics it will be four years until they are teenagers. So for the next four years, your plan is to lay low and let their major influence be your STBXW...and you will be a minor influence in their life for FOUR YEARS (which will be about 1/3 of their entire life when they are 12yo). Rather than speaking up for yourself and standing for your rights as their adult parent--and their rights to have a fully involved father--you plan to not be as involved in their life, let them live with four years of whatever your STBXW may say about you and may teach them, and then in four years (1/3 of their life) they will be the one to have to stand up to spend time with you. In other words, you are putting it on your kids to do what you aren't willing to do now.


How does a 60/40 split make him a "minor influence" on his kids or an un-involved father?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

1 night per week + every other weekend means that out of 14 days, he sees them 3. That's 11 days with mom and 3 days with dad or closer to 80/20...which would be far better than NO DAYS with dad, but I'm suggesting start from 7 days with each parent and negotiate from there. At 9yo a true 50/50 custody split is reasonable. 

And note to self: I'm not saying that a dad who has 1 night a week + every other weekend is a minor influence or an un-involved father, but I am saying that as an adult he has an opportunity to raise his children as he sees fit and teach them the values that he believes, just as equally and strongly and identically as the children's mother. I don't think it's reasonable to diminish their relationship with their mother. I DO think it is reasonable to step up and be as much of a parent (caring and providing for them) as he is expecting of her. In addition, if he expects or hopes that his kids will one day stand up against an abusive adult, it is reasonable to hold himself to that same level of expectation...one EQUAL ADULT to another (not child to adult). 

Make sense? In other words, start from strength and negotiate a little. Don't start from fear and hope kids will do what the grown up can't.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> 1 night per week + every other weekend means that out of 14 days, he sees them 3. That's 11 days with mom and 3 days with dad or closer to 80/20...which would be far better than NO DAYS with dad, but I'm suggesting start from 7 days with each parent and negotiate from there. At 9yo a true 50/50 custody split is reasonable.
> 
> And note to self: I'm not saying that a dad who has 1 night a week + every other weekend is a minor influence or an un-involved father, but I am saying that as an adult he has an opportunity to raise his children as he sees fit and teach them the values that he believes, just as equally and strongly and identically as the children's mother. I don't think it's reasonable to diminish their relationship with their mother. I DO think it is reasonable to step up and be as much of a parent (caring and providing for them) as he is expecting of her. In addition, if he expects or hopes that his kids will one day stand up against an abusive adult, it is reasonable to hold himself to that same level of expectation...one EQUAL ADULT to another (not child to adult).
> 
> Make sense? In other words, start from strength and negotiate a little. Don't start from fear and hope kids will do what the grown up can't.


Please see his post # 28 on this thread. He said 60/40 so I that’s what I assume will happen.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I feel like if this arrangement is what works for this family, it’s not our place to argue that it’s wrong. Also good to keep in mind that the quality of the time spent is the most important part. I kinda feel like he is being guilted here and that’s not fair, we don’t know their schedules or the dispositions of their kids. If no one feels slighted then I think it’s good they can agree. Being flexible and amicable is so important for the peace of mind for the kids involved in any divorce. 




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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Just to be clear, she was offering every other weekend. That’s 4 out of 28 days. I asked for 2 days the week and every other weekend. That puts us at 12/16 split. She came back at one day a week and every other weekend. 8/20 split. I think I can push one day a week on weeks I have weekend and two on the non weekend months. That puts us at 10/18 or 36% to her 64%. I am asking if a reduction in CS to agree. She wants full CS but would be willing to wave her share piece of the condo and give it to me free and clear. That’s what on the table right now. 

More importantly, I moved in to my brothers tonight and felt right at home. I’m hoping for some ‘out of sight out of mind’ correction in me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> More importantly, I moved in to my brothers tonight and felt right at home. I’m hoping for some ‘out of sight out of mind’ correction in me.


I think this is going to do wonders for your mental state, I am glad you took that step to get away from her for at least a while.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am staying in my brother’s apartment. He offered it months ago but I didn’t want to leave. Now I have to. It’s about 30 minutes away but it’s brand new and it’s free. I was in the ER with chest pains 7 hours today. I can’t stay here any longer. I’ve been her live nanny while she goes out on dates several nights a week, flaunting it in my face with her 4 hour yoga classes. I will be better off when I don’t see this anymore. We have court on Monday. I will tell my attorney then. If he tells me to move back, I will.
> 
> She made me another offer today. We are getting close. I will end up paying CS, it will be a 60/40 split with time. She will buy me out of our house and give me our (my) investment condo with no buyout. She’s a teacher and her work schedule meshes with the kids numerous days/weeks/summers off. Mine does not. I’m doing what I need to do to move on.
> My 40% time with the kids will be even more special for all 3 of us.
> ...


I hope you've added in time for you to vacation with your children!!! You should think about school vacations and summer...you should still get a 40/60 split with those times.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Just to be clear, she was offering every other weekend. That’s 4 out of 28 days. I asked for 2 days the week and every other weekend. That puts us at 12/16 split. She came back at one day a week and every other weekend. 8/20 split. I think I can push one day a week on weeks I have weekend and two on the non weekend months. That puts us at 10/18 or 36% to her 64%. I am asking if a reduction in CS to agree. She wants full CS but would be willing to wave her share piece of the condo and give it to me free and clear. That’s what on the table right now.
> 
> More importantly, I moved in to my brothers tonight and felt right at home. I’m hoping for some ‘out of sight out of mind’ correction in me.


I know you're thinking that soon they'll be teens and can make up their own minds about how much time to spend with each parent. Really think about the fact that if they do not spend enough time with you over the next few years, they may choose to live full time with her as that's where they will be most used to being, all their friends are closer, their stuff is there etc. Make sure you've formed a good bond with them between now and then. Be there for them as much as possible. Make sure your custody agreement includes the ability to interact with them even on the days they are with her...ie. social media, phone calls, etc. My exH has a group Snapchat with my kids. It's very bonding for them to share their day with him and have him share his. 

I barely saw my Dad after my parents divorced. If a few years later he had said "hey wanna come over and stay for the weekend I wouldn't have wanted to go. 

Just something for you to think about.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> I hope you've added in time for you to vacation with your children!!! You should think about school vacations and summer...you should still get a 40/60 split with those times.


Yes, I have asked for every other holiday and every other winter/Easter break and two weeks in the summer. She told me I can have the kids whenever I want and she’d never keep me from them. I just question the sincerity of this statement because things change.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Yes, I have asked for every other holiday and every other winter/Easter break and two weeks in the summer. She told me I can have the kids whenever I want and she’d never keep me from them. I just question the sincerity of this statement because things change.


My guess is that she means that now because her nanny has moved out and her time with her BF is going to limited. So of course you can have them. But then if/when she breaks up with her BF she might change her mind. Also, if you are taking them more than the agreed upon court settlement than that will change how much you owe in CS. So let's say she gives them to you 2 extra nights a week on the regular...you could go back to court and petition to have your support decreased. Keep that in mind. 

Something similar just happened to a friend of mine. Her boys elected to stay with Dad in their childhood home when she left, or got kicked out by her exH. She was sad but dealt with it. She paid a lot of child support. But the kids kept calling her every night saying Dad had gone out and not fed them. So she'd bring them dinner. They needed clothing, shoes, activity fees, etc. Dad refused to buy them that stuff so they'd call her. After a few years, her ex had the audacity to take her back to court for more money because he realized her new husband made decent money. Well, too bad for him she had ALL her receipts on the child support payments and every dime she'd spent on the kids since, which was significant. It was clear she was doing all the supporting and caring for the kids even without living there. The judge stopped her CS payments and made her exH pay her lawyer fees and told him he'd be in contempt if he dragged her back to court again.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Yes, I have asked for every other holiday and every other winter/Easter break and two weeks in the summer. She told me I can have the kids whenever I want and she’d never keep me from them. I just question the sincerity of this statement because things change.


I have thought of different ways to explain this stuff to you and not sound like a jerk...

I really don't know how other than just laying it out there. 

Your STBXW is a liar and cheater. I think you don't believe, or maybe you do, that she had been cheating for a while before she talked about divorce, and really now it does not matter except the you have to REALLY HONESTLY understand what type of person you are dealing with.

She is not your friend anymore, likely she never really was. She is def not your love and has not been for awhile. We know she is a liar, so there is that. 

You appear to think that being Mr. Nice Guy if somehow going to get you are good divorce settlement. 

It won't, Just like being Mr. Nice Guy will not keep most women attention, even though we think is should. 

What I am trying to say is this: She is and will continue to try and screw you. You have to be firm about everything. You have to be kind of a pain the ass so that she want to pay you to go away or so she will agree to more favorable terms. 

Lots of men in your situation think that being nice will somehow, I don't know allow you two to be together in the future when they finally understand what a great guy you are... Or, that being a great guy will somehow get you a better deal...

I don't know if you feel that way or not, but what I do know is that people that are done with someone have no qualms screwing them over in a divorce. 

She has ZERO qualms screwing you over, so please do not let that happen...


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> I have thought of different ways to explain this stuff to you and not sound like a jerk...
> 
> I really don't know how other than just laying it out there.
> 
> ...


I appreciate all the feedback. I do take it all in. There is certainly no one size fits all. I’m not a pushover. I needed to get out of the house to gain clarity and I’ve done that. I’ve read all the books and red pill stuff and father’s rights, etc. I understand it all and agree with most of it. This has NOTHING to do with her and I. This has EVERYTHING to do with what is best for me and my children. I am capable of anything, but I also know my limitations. I am considering everything, I really am. No option is off the table. I will do what is in the best interests of my children and me. Nothing will get done out of spite for her. No, she’s not my friend nor do I think about her that way during negotiations. I started this thread to let my feelings of hurt, anger and sadness come out. Those feelings don’t win her any points with me. If I settle for less than 50/50 it’s because that’s what I felt was best, not for anyone else’s benefit.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I was told to get back home today, so that’s what I did. I’m not happy about it, but that’s what I’m paying him for.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I was told to get back home today, so that’s what I did. I’m not happy about it, but that’s what I’m paying him for.


Ugh that sucks!!!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If you find yourself out in Portland - let me know! We have so many excellent restaurants. :grin2:


Some with very local organic ingredients from what I hear.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > If you find yourself out in Portland - let me know! We have so many excellent restaurants. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>
> ...


Ha ha ha!!! So real!! 

But we have plenty of restaurants where you don’t have people who want to meet their food before eating it.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

I don't know what the laws are in your state, but I would consider the move to your brothers' as a visit instead of a relocation. If it becomes permanent after the separation agreement, so be it. Then again, it may not matter in your state.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> I don't know what the laws are in your state, but I would consider the move to your brothers' as a visit instead of a relocation. If it becomes permanent after the separation agreement, so be it. Then again, it may not matter in your state.


It must matter in his state or his lawyer would not have told him to move back in.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> It must matter in his state or his lawyer would not have told him to move back in.


Somehow I missed that post. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Coincidentally, after I went to my brother’s, her attorney adjourned next weeks hearing for another two weeks. The plan could have been to wait me out, then move for emergency relief for child support effective immediately. So it was a visit to help my brother after he had surgery last month. It was also a much needed break after my chest pains due to stress and anxiety. I am back home. No harm, no foul. The kids were off from school this week anyhow and I’ll be getting them ready for school and putting them on the bus next week like daddy always does. 

My time will come. Now wasn’t it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> Coincidentally, after I went to my brother’s, her attorney adjourned next weeks hearing for another two weeks. The plan could have been to wait me out, then move for emergency relief for child support effective immediately. So it was a visit to help my brother after he had surgery last month. It was also a much needed break after my chest pains due to stress and anxiety. I am back home. No harm, no foul. The kids were off from school this week anyhow and I’ll be getting them ready for school and putting them on the bus next week like daddy always does.
> 
> My time will come. Now wasn’t it.


Hang in there, brother. Your time will come.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Update: I had my first appointment with the kids law guardian today. He said that in today's world, as long as both parents live close by or in the same school district, the courts will likely decide on 50/50 custody and visitation. Unless one or more of the children strongly object to either parent (this is not the case), 50/50 is likely. He also said he knows stbx's attorney, and he is also sure her attorney knows this as well. He then spoke to each of my kids individually. I know this is only meeting one, and she will be meeting with him and the kids next month and will give a different version of events, but he seemed very fair and reasonable. I left his office optimistic.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I know it doesn't feel like it but your life will go on, you will have great joys you never thought you would have again and then probably deep sadness that you didn't think you would have either. 

As you get older you learn that that is what makes a rich life. It's not really about if it last forever or not it's about did you love as hard as you could. The reason that is is because nothing NOTHING in this world last forever. You just try to live with honor and go as hard as you can.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Update: still in IHS and came to a head last week when we got heated in an argument. I took out my phone to record it, she went to smack it out of my hands and hit me she took the kids to her mothers house. She was gone for 4 days. I called the police and so did she. She came back to the house, by herself, everyday she was gone. Once was to take a shower and then leave her dildo out at my bedroom door with a note that read, “don’t need this one either. When it’s good, it’s good!” The next day she came to bang on my bedroom door excessively while I was on a work skype call with me team. We both made emergency petitions to kick each other out of the house and the judge denied them both. The petition that my lawyer drew up did put a spotlight on her and the judge now knows she not the squeaky clean housewife, teacher that she portrays herself to be. I need this to come to an end. No further negotiations. The judge saw the photo of the dildo and her note as well as video of her banging on my door trying to interfere with my career. He still denied both motions and my attorney said the bar is really, really high to have someone thrown out of the house, especially now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This is insanity. Why do you both insist on staying there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> This is insanity. Why do you both insist on staying there?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t. I wish I could leave. I am here at my lawyers direction.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

No sir, she is now in panic mode. You have her physically assaulting you. That is a case killer. That is why she is trying to get you to react. That is why the dildo was left, that is why she was trying to get you to scream at her, something so that her lawyer can deflect the crap that she just caused. Please keep your temper and grey rock her. Her emotions are running pretty damn high. She is making mistakes and it will become clearer to you when your lawyer has to gut her. Your lawyer has probably not conveyed this to you but her swatting that phone and missing, is a decent silver lining to that arguement. Her case has been hobbled. Her credibility has been compromised. Keep a neutral expression on your face, it will infuriate her. She has a short time period to have you blow a gasket, and if you do not, she will have to make some major concessions, otherwise this could go very much south for her.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RebuildingMe said:


> ... No further negotiations. The judge saw the photo of the dildo and her note as well as video of her banging on my door trying to interfere with my career. He still denied both motions and my attorney said *the bar is really, really high to have someone thrown out of the house, especially now*.


Unfortunately, the COVID "quarantine" has made it impractical for judges to throw people out of the spot they are in, and no doubt your wife made it seem that if the judge removed HER that he would also be displacing the kids as well. Essentially, unless there is literal, physical domestic violence documentable and proven, it is unlikely anyone will be ordered to go anywhere. 

That being the case, is there a way for you to look at your schedule and come up with alternatives to avoid being in her vicinity? For example, I'm guessing that you are working from home at least part of the time, and being a teacher, she is also. Can you dedicate one room to "your office" and close and lock the office door (to avoid her)? Can you volunteer to go into the office and be the only person in the office? Could you spend Mon-Thurs at your brother's condo and have her spend Fri-Sun at some alternate location so that you two are not together at home at the same time? I realize she may not be willing to cooperate, but you can look at yourself, your job, and your schedule and see what YOU can do to stay the heck away from her! In addition, you can determine when YOU will be with the kids! 

For example, if you sleep in one guest bedroom, and she's in another--you are apart. If you turn your room into a bedroom/office, you can put a lock on your door--you are apart. If her schedule is 8am-3pm at home (home-schooling and teaching), you can be in your office those hours--you are apart. You cook dinner for yourself and the kids from 4-6pm--let her fend for herself. She leaves the house at 7pm every night, but you leave on Wed. and Fri. nights and let her watch her own children. Etc... make sense? 

Grey rock is your friend right now. Think of her as the teller at the bank. If the teller at the bank left you a note about her dildo, would you get all upset? Nope! You'd possibly be amused! She's no one to you--just the grocery store clerk or the maid at the motel.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Pick up some cheap webcams off amazon or whatever. Set them up in only the shared spaces of the house, and let her know you've done so, and they are for the protection of you both. Give her access to the feeds.

It should keep both of you on the straight and narrow.

In the meantime, consider finding a new lawyer or at least getting a second opinion. I think yours might suck.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Pick up some cheap webcams off amazon or whatever. Set them up in only the shared spaces of the house, and let her know you've done so, and they are for the protection of you both. Give her access to the feeds.
> 
> It should keep both of you on the straight and narrow.
> 
> In the meantime, consider finding a new lawyer or at least getting a second opinion. I think yours might suck.


And let her know via email so she can't claim later she knew nothing of them. 

Sorry it's such a hard time right now. I remember that time between wanting to leave and actually leaving and it was not fun. Stay strong. It will be worth it in the end.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Next time she touches you such as trying to slap the phone out of your hand call the police. Continue to document everything. 

Sounds like your wife is bipolar to be honest. On a good note at least now you see who you really married. Be happy to be rid of her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Taxman said:


> No sir, she is now in panic mode. You have her physically assaulting you. That is a case killer. That is why she is trying to get you to react. That is why the dildo was left, that is why she was trying to get you to scream at her, something so that her lawyer can deflect the crap that she just caused. Please keep your temper and grey rock her. Her emotions are running pretty damn high. She is making mistakes and it will become clearer to you when your lawyer has to gut her. Your lawyer has probably not conveyed this to you but her swatting that phone and missing, is a decent silver lining to that arguement. Her case has been hobbled. Her credibility has been compromised. Keep a neutral expression on your face, it will infuriate her. She has a short time period to have you blow a gasket, and if you do not, she will have to make some major concessions, otherwise this could go very much south for her.


You are exactly right. My lawyer said this was a wake up call for her lawyer. He knows now what type of client he now has. Neither of us won our motions (didn't think we would), but my papers, exhibits (photos and videos) and police report were so much better than hers and put this case in a new direction. It totally changed the narrative.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Affaircare said:


> Unfortunately, the COVID "quarantine" has made it impractical for judges to throw people out of the spot they are in, and no doubt your wife made it seem that if the judge removed HER that he would also be displacing the kids as well. Essentially, unless there is literal, physical domestic violence documentable and proven, it is unlikely anyone will be ordered to go anywhere.
> 
> That being the case, is there a way for you to look at your schedule and come up with alternatives to avoid being in her vicinity? For example, I'm guessing that you are working from home at least part of the time, and being a teacher, she is also. Can you dedicate one room to "your office" and close and lock the office door (to avoid her)? Can you volunteer to go into the office and be the only person in the office? Could you spend Mon-Thurs at your brother's condo and have her spend Fri-Sun at some alternate location so that you two are not together at home at the same time? I realize she may not be willing to cooperate, but you can look at yourself, your job, and your schedule and see what YOU can do to stay the heck away from her! In addition, you can determine when YOU will be with the kids!
> 
> ...


I wish this would work. I offered a nesting plan of 3 days a week for each of us since I can stay with my brother and she can stay with her parents- she rejected it. My attorney insisted on a nesting plan this last weekend while both motions were being heard on Monday. She countered with her being gone 9am-9pm on Saturday and I was gone 9am-9pm on Easter. Thankfully nothing happened at night,. She will not spend even one night without her kids.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Pick up some cheap webcams off amazon or whatever. Set them up in only the shared spaces of the house, and let her know you've done so, and they are for the protection of you both. Give her access to the feeds.
> 
> It should keep both of you on the straight and narrow.
> 
> In the meantime, consider finding a new lawyer or at least getting a second opinion. I think yours might suck.


The webcam is a pretty good idea. I have a body cam I wear at all times, bust mostly we take out our phones and record when we think the other is not behaving appropriately. Let's just say that I have 10x more footage than she does, because she provides it.

My attorney is actually very good and well respected. His papers and affidavit were FAR superior to hers, in every way possible. The evidence was also. At the end of the day though, the judge wasn't kicking either of us out of the house.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> And let her know via email so she can't claim later she knew nothing of them.
> 
> Sorry it's such a hard time right now. I remember that time between wanting to leave and actually leaving and it was not fun. Stay strong. It will be worth it in the end.


Thank you Jamie for you thoughts. There will come a time when this is all behind me, but it is hell on earth right now. I've come too far not to see this through!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Next time she touches you such as trying to slap the phone out of your hand call the police. Continue to document everything.
> 
> Sounds like your wife is bipolar to be honest. On a good note at least now you see who you really married. Be happy to be rid of her.


Yes, on both accounts. I called the police last week and I would not hesitate to call them again. She is so up and down, acting recklessly. Two days before the incident, she was giving me a hug, telling me how good I looked, how much she missed me and how she still loves me. Three hours later, when the kids are asleep (daughter sleeps with her every night) I hear her in my daughter's room having phone sex with her new bf. She disgusts me. She is a master gaslighter and manipulator. She will eventually crash and burn.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ew.. don’t allow her to hug you any more. No more touching. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You’d be wise to read up on “parallel parenting“ and “grey rocking“ For the future.
communicate by text only, answer no phone calls direct let it go to voicemail and respond only if it’s kids or business. Be civil but distant. Never go into her home and don’t allow her in yours. Pickup/drop offs limit to 3 minutes with no engagement. keep all holidays, birthdays separate (What kid doesn’t want 2 birthday parties).

it may seem draconian but it works well in these situation. Kids will adjust.

above all learn to ignore. This method will get you where you need to be. If not you’ll give up headspace and keep yourself in the mess. No relationship will work well with an x in themix.

it'll be your best path forward.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> Ew.. don’t allow her to hug you any more. No more touching.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yep, it’s just her manipulation tactic. Learn to ignore


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> You are exactly right. My lawyer said this was a wake up call for her lawyer. He knows now what type of client he now has. Neither of us won our motions (didn't think we would), but my papers, exhibits (photos and videos) and police report were so much better than hers and put this case in a new direction. It totally changed the narrative.


Yes, the case has changed 180 degrees. Wait until her lawyer has a "Come to Jesus" meeting with her. There will be either an escalation or she will coccoon until court date. If I were her representative, my meeting with her would begin with; ARE YOU STUPID? You have just compromised the case we were building. That case is in the toilet, and my job has just changed completely. Instead of being aggressive and securing assets for you, I will be spending my time defending you from being reamed in this D. JUDGES HATE PEOPLE WHO ASSAULT THEIR PARTNERS. It will take everything we have to keep a penny in your pocket. 

I have fired several clients for this. Do not be surprised if she has to get new representation. When all is said and done, and you have a decree absolute, please walk up to your ex wife and thank her for making this oh so easy.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

RebuildingMe said:


> Thankfully nothing happened at night,. She will not spend even one night without her kids.


SO, I guess she will have to get used to NOT having them every night pretty darn quick, eh?
And the best part is that SHE CAUSED this herself.

EDIT: Sorry -- VERY poor choice of words, There is no BEST part of any of this. I meant that SHE cannot blame anyone but herself for this outcome.


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