# Talking to daughter



## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Sooo, just need a little help understanding a few things. I had the most awkward conversation of my life with my daughter Friday night. She is 20 and started seeing a guy a few months back who very nice and from the outside we just new these 2 were in love. It’s nice to see I’m glad she has found someone. 

we started talking about college and what she wants from life and her relationship. I guess she got the idea that I was being dismissive of her relationship experience and gave me the “dad I’m not a kid anymore look” and then said this isn’t her first relationship. I told her I get it and didn’t think she was a child or too young to fall in love and I thought her relationship with current boyfriend was going well. She then feels the need to tell me all of her dating history not details but just who she dated and who she had sex with. We have always had a great relationship and spent tons of time together and talked about everything but this.

I’ve always thought that I had instilled a little more conservative values and was a little sathat her current boyfriend who I’m sure will be fiancé within the year is her 4th lover.

Did I fail as a father? She is a sophomore in college but I can’t help to think her sexual experience is more than average. My wife thinks that it is totally normal but hopes this relationship works out.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Brooding dad said:


> Sooo, just need a little help understanding a few things. I had the most awkward conversation of my life with my daughter Friday night. She is 20 and started seeing a guy a few months back who very nice and from the outside we just new these 2 were in love. It’s nice to see I’m glad she has found someone.
> 
> we started talking about college and what she wants from life and her relationship. I guess she got the idea that I was being dismissive of her relationship experience and gave me the “dad I’m not a kid anymore look” and then said this isn’t her first relationship. I told her I get it and didn’t think she was a child or too young to fall in love and I thought her relationship with current boyfriend was going well. She then feels the need to tell me all of her dating history not details but just who she dated and who she had sex with. We have always had a great relationship and spent tons of time together and talked about everything but this.
> 
> ...


No, you did not fail her as a father. Having four partners is a pretty low number, honestly. Some people have less, some have far more, but four really isn't that many. At that age, my wife and I had both slept with more than four people. 

She's an adult. She will make her own choices and have her own experiences. No one wants to think of their children (or parents) as sexual beings, but they are. Let it go...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Brooding dad said:


> I’ve always thought that I had instilled a little more conservative values and was a little sathat her current boyfriend who I’m sure will be fiancé within the year is her 4th lover.
> 
> Did I fail as a father? She is a sophomore in college but I can’t help to think her sexual experience is more than average.


To give you some perspective, a 2018 study showed the average number of sexual partners was 26 for men and 19 for women. Now, being an average, obviously some individuals are going to be higher and some lower. Your daughter is 20 and in college. She's not a floozy nor is she a prude. She's just a young woman who seems to be both sex positive and discerning. From your post it seems she generally has sex within relationships and isn't out there hooking up with a different frat boy or Tinder dude every week or so.

You did good, dad! You really did. Your daughter is sex positive, but not a tramp by any means. She is confident in herself and she felt comfortable telling you personal things about herself and her life as a grown woman and sexual being. You far from failed.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I remember feeling this way about my niece when she first went to college several years ago. I had been talking to her several times a day since she was about 10yrs old, so finding out she was doing things that I thought were harmful for her was really difficult to stay detached from. 

But my role in her life is NOT to make her a carbon copy of ME...it's to support her in HER journey to be HERSELF.
The choices your daughter makes is not a reflection on you personally, and our sexuality and how we process all our relationships is so much more complicated than simply, "she had a good parent - she had a bad one".

It sounds like the fact that she felt comfortable with telling you about all her previous relationships means you did a GREAT job raising her!!! She feels free to be herself, and she trusts you to accept her -- THAT is the sign of what kind of parent you were in her eyes...and that's all that matters!


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

I disagree with others and having 4 sexual partners by age 20 does not say a lot of good things about the person. Either she ****ed around and involved in hook ups or she wanted serious relationships and failed all of them.

I don't think it is your fault though. Having three kids of my own including 19 years old daughters I admit I have very limited influence on them despite being very close to them. Environment and our rotten society have much more impact on them then their own parents.

And I am pretty liberal and sexual person. So is my wife.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I disagree with others and having 4 sexual partners by age 20 does not say a lot of good things about the person. Either she ****ed around and involved in hook ups or she wanted serious relationships and failed all of them.
> 
> I don't think it is your fault though. Having three kids of my own including 19 years old daughters I admit I have very limited influence on them despite being very close to them. Environment and our rotten society have much more impact on them then their own parents.
> 
> And I am pretty liberal and sexual person. So is my wife.


I guess you call yourself "romantic dreamer" for a reason...


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

If they were of concensual age I think the only people who should judge the sex was the two of them. In any case, you aren't going to change her upbringing or her partner count at this late date. I think I would have protested "TMI" if she was telling me who she had sex with.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I can see worrying if a child is very promiscuous and is engaging in dangerous behaviors, but I'm more than a little squicked out about a dad contemplating his 20 year old daughter's sexual 4 partner count to the point he's posting on a forum about it. 

Now females are being judged by their partner count not only by their _own_ partners but now their FATHERS are up in their sexual business with judgment, at 20 years old, posting to a forum about their daughter's partner count.

Again, this isn't asking advice because a child is in the middle of some dangerous, reckless behaviors. 

And this dad even said the current boyfriend is probably going to become her fiancé. She's in a relationship that is leading to marriage. 

Ick.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

II think the discussion was more about her than your parenting. As a 20 year old she wants to believe she is a full fledged mature adult. I think in her mind sharing her dating and sexual history with you is a way of shocking you into accepting she is an adult.

Some day she may look back at that conversation and wonder what the he'll she was thinking.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I disagree with others and having 4 sexual partners by age 20 does not say a lot of good things about the person. Either she ****ed around and involved in hook ups or she wanted serious relationships and failed all of them.
> 
> I don't think it is your fault though. Having three kids of my own including 19 years old daughters I admit I have very limited influence on them despite being very close to them. Environment and our rotten society have much more impact on them then their own parents.
> 
> And I am pretty liberal and sexual person. So is my wife.


I just did some looking around the internet and have come up with varying opinions on what is considered to be average/median. 

CDC study from 2011-15 says average for lifetime partners is 4.3 for woman. 

a “super drug” (a health and beauty product sales company) says the average lifetime is 7

Places like Reddit say anything from your a ***** if you kissa guy to your a prude if you don’t sleep with everyone you know.

just for general knowledge her number at her age is less than mine and identical to my wife. Yes I am my wife’s 4th. 

My daughter has been working since her sophomore year in high school because she chooses to and has done very well in sports and academics. She is very levelheaded and has not participated in hookup culture any more than I did or her mother did.

while I was a little disappointed in hearing she had made the same choices most of us have. I have known all but 1 of the boys and never felt that she was just fooling around.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Safe. Consensual. Responsible. Mutually respectful.

Those are the concepts I have worked to instill in my soon-to-be-20 daughter. 

Female sexuality is genie that is not going to be put back in the bottle. 

Those of us in our 40s-50s were the last generation where young women’s vaginas were guarded. 

In prior generations most young women did not even go on unescorted dates until they were officially engaged. 

The advent of reliable and accessible contraception and effective treatment for most STIs and the changing social status of virginity in today’s relationship world have virtually eliminated the guarding of female virtue as it used to be practiced. 

Those of us in our 50s and beyond may have been closely chaperoned and monitored in our day, but we still found ways to get together and hook up. 

In other words, people in our day had sex too, we just hid it better and didn’t admit to it with our parents. 

I think the key factors with sex in our teen and young adult children is - is it SAFE? Are they in a safe environment with trustworthy people etc?

- is it CONSENSUAL? Are both parties in agreement on the status of the relationship and conditions of the sexual encounter(s)? 

- is it RESPONSIBLE? Have contraception and safer sex practices been addressed and instituted. 

-is it MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL? Are both people being sincere and honest and acting in good faith? Are they being honest about there intentions and objectives in terms of the relationship and role of sexuality in that relationship? 

We’re never going to have ladies-in-waiting again. Female sexual empowerment and agency is here to stay. 

Families and churches and communities are no longer the gate keepers of women’s vaginas anymore. Women are now in charge of their own genitalia.

Our role as parents are to help provide them with the knowledge and support to make their decisions safely and responsibly and in accordance with their own well being.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Safe. Consensual. Responsible. Mutually respectful.
> 
> 
> Female sexuality is a genie that is not going to be put back in the bottle.
> ...


TLDR version


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I can see worrying if a child is very promiscuous and is engaging in dangerous behaviors, but I'm more than a little squicked out about a dad contemplating his 20 year old daughter's sexual 4 partner count to the point he's posting on a forum about it.
> 
> Now females are being judged by their partner count not only by their _own_ partners but now their FATHERS are up in their sexual business with judgment, at 20 years old, posting to a forum about their daughter's partner count.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Not really judging because I and wife are guilty of the same things. I replied to another post you can check that out if you’d like. 

I felt more comfortable discussing it here instead of making it an issue at home.

I do believe this will be a life long relationship for her. Please don’t think I have poor views of my daughter I guess I’m just reviewing my life.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> If they were of concensual age I think the only people who should judge the sex was the two of them. In any case, you aren't going to change her upbringing or her partner count at this late date. I think I would have protested "TMI" if she was telling me who she had sex with.


Yes, I get that and probably should have.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cooper said:


> II think the discussion was more about her than your parenting. As a 20 year old she wants to believe she is a full fledged mature adult. I think in her mind sharing her dating and sexual history with you is a way of shocking you into accepting she is an adult.
> 
> Some day she may look back at that conversation and wonder what the he'll she was thinking.


I don’t think so. 

When you and I were 20 years old 30 years ago, that discussion may have had some shock value.

Sexuality is not shocking to today’s 20 year olds. 

Kids today have a much more open and matter-of-fact outlook on sexuality than we did decades ago. 

She was likely just being open and communicative. 

We as parents shoukd express our values and concerns and our acquired knowledge and wisdom with our kids - but we should never do anything that discourages their communication and discourse with us. We should not ever be “shocked.”

We can disapprove and and we can discourage certain behaviors by sharing our knowledge and wisdom on why that behavior may be detrimental. 

But we should never allow ourselves to be shocked when they are trying to communicate with us.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> I just did some looking around the internet and have come up with varying opinions on what is considered to be average/median.
> 
> CDC study from 2011-15 says average for lifetime partners is 4.3 for woman.
> 
> ...


I don't care what the average or median number of sexual partners is.

To be truly connected with someone you need to feel special. I personally cannot understand how you can feel special with someone who had 4 sexual partners before you? What makes you feel being the 5th partner you are so special? May be you are special until the 6th partner comes to replace you.

My wife had two oral hooks ups and one BF before me. It has never been easy for me but I accept this. But had she had 4 sexual partners before me I am not sure i would be able to be with her despite I love her mire than anything in this world.

If your daughter had 3 serious BFs before and failed all these relationships (according to you they were not hook ups) it means something is wrong with her.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I would like for my kids to tell me a little bit about their relationships, just to be sure they are safe. I think you have a great relationship with your daughter. 4 sexual partners are not a lot now a days. If you think about it, you can meet someone, you like the person, start dating this person for a few weeks and start having sex, maybe the relationship doesn't work out and you break up. 

In a matter of weeks you can meet someone and start having sex with that someone. I think 4 sexual partners is a low number. Specially if she's around a lot of boys in college. 

You should worry about her using birth control every time and condoms to avoid any STDs, and tell her to make sure the guy is clean. You know her sexual past, but you don't know his.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As parents we can only do our very best to bring our children up to be decent human beings with integrity. 
What they then do and how they act is their decision and is influenced by many things. 

We can't blame ourselves for every mistake they make or wrong decision they make once they are older. 

It sounds as if you have a good relationship with her and thats important.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I don't care what the average or median number of sexual partners is.
> 
> To be truly connected with someone you need to feel special. I personally cannot understand how you can feel special with someone who had 4 sexual partners before you? What makes you feel being the 5th partner you are so special? May be you are special until the 6th partner comes to replace you.
> 
> ...


By that logic you are saying there is something wrong with your wife. I’m not sure how you can say that and say that you love her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Brooding dad said:


> I just did some looking around the internet and have come up with varying opinions on what is considered to be average/median.
> 
> CDC study from 2011-15 says average for lifetime partners is 4.3 for woman.
> 
> ...


I also want to add that my aunts, who were in their teens through 20s during the late 60s and 70s ("sexual revolution"), both had TONS more partners than your daughter, and had some regrets and great memories, but both felt empowered by their choices and were happy later that they had those experiences. It taught them alot and gave them a great perspective to share with me when I was a teenager 20 years later.

Number counts just don't matter. It's the INTENT behind them that tells the real story, and even that shouldn't be any kind of judgement either on her or her parents/upbringing.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> By that logic you are saying there is something wrong with your wife. I’m not sure how you can say that and say that you love her.


Also I’m not sure if you are referring to me as #5 for my wife, I am #4 for my wife. 
I get the idea of wanting to feel special but just from my peers at that age I don’t think we were strange or overly promiscuous. It sounds like your peer group was also similar


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I don't care what the average or median number of sexual partners is.
> 
> To be truly connected with someone you need to feel special. I personally cannot understand how you can feel special with someone who had 4 sexual partners before you? What makes you feel being the 5th partner you are so special? May be you are special until the 6th partner comes to replace you.
> 
> ...


To ME, this says more about your issues than that of any person with 4+ partners. I'm NOT judging you, I'm just saying what I hear in your perspective (which I recognize is mine).


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> By that logic you are saying there is something wrong with your wife. I’m not sure how you can say that and say that you love her.


To say oral is not sex you are definitely choosing to look the other way. Oral partners definitely add to your partner count.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I don't care what the average or median number of sexual partners is.
> 
> To be truly connected with someone you need to feel special. I personally cannot understand how you can feel special with someone who had 4 sexual partners before you? What makes you feel being the 5th partner you are so special? May be you are special until the 6th partner comes to replace you.
> 
> ...


Special is as special does. 

I’m guessing you are roughly in your 40s. We were brought up in a different social and economic era. 

Contraception wasn’t as readily available to young, single women, female sexuality was tightly controlled and chaperoned and people typically married their high school or at least college sweetheart. 

Sexuality was restricted by families, churches and communities and people married young and typically married one of their first BFs/GFs. 

Social convention and economics have changed. Contraception and effective treatment of STIs are readily available and marrying young and marrying one of your first sweethearts are pretty highly discouraged today. 

People are going to have sex because that is what people do. 

Now I’m not going to say what is and what is not a problematic number of sex partners by 20 years old is. 

But I am going to say that whether we like it or not, we all have to face the facts that the world a 20 year old lives in today, it quite different than the world a 20 year old lived in in 1980.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, now you know more than you needed to about your adult daughter’s sex life. You should have stopped her if you didn’t want those details rattling around in your brain. But what’s done is done so my suggestion is not to focus on it because there’s obviously nothing you can do. I have young adult grandchildren and they live in a very different world than the one you grew up in and and definitely many light years away from the world I grew up in. Time moves forward, it doesn’t go back.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> If your daughter had 3 serious BFs before and failed all these relationships (according to you they were not hook ups) it means something is wrong with her.


This is BS!!

I had many serious boyfriends before meeting my husband. I was sexually active with some of them. There was nothing wrong with me. I was serious in terms of being a good, loyal girlfriend, but sometimes relationships don't flourish and fail. 

You can't be serious thinking you are going to date and marry your first. This is fantasy to me.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Brooding dad said:


> I just did some looking around the internet and have come up with varying opinions on what is considered to be average/median.


Does it matter? If society moved to some extreme of few or many partners, would that number become what she should aspire to?

Sex is a very personal choice, and if the choices she's making work for her I think that is what matters.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> If your daughter had 3 serious BFs before and failed all these relationships (according to you they were not hook ups) it means something is wrong with her.


Now you’re just being an arse. 

Not everyone views the success or failures of a relationship according to your scale and metric. 

As I said above, people don’t marry as young as they used to. Going forward, growing numbers of people won’t marry at all.

So it’s not fair to judge a 20 year old today by the relationship standards of 1980. 

A relationship isn’t necessarily a “failure” because it comes to a conclusion. 

They could have been very positive and beneficial relationships. 

Or they could have been train wrecks but at 20 years old, even the train wrecks are beneficial due to the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that come from them even if that wisdom is on how not to have that kind of relationship.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I still can't believe everyone is okay discussing and analyzing the OP's DAUGHTER'S sex life like this. 

This isn't his partner/wife being discussed. It's his daughter. 

I have 2 similarly aged children to OP and I couldn't fathom discussing their partner count and sexuality like this.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I still can't believe everyone is okay discussing and analyzing the OP's DAUGHTER'S sex life like this.
> 
> This isn't his partner/wife being discussed. It's his daughter.
> 
> I have 2 similarly aged children to OP and I couldn't fathom discussing their partner count and sexuality like this.


I think it is a valid discussion because this kind of discussion is taking place in families all across the land - INCLUDING MY OWN!

Including my own house as I have a daughter the same age as the OP. 

This is the reality. Young people today have more access and are more open and matter-of-fact about sexuality than previous generations. 

I don’t know if my father ever even uttered the word ‘sex.’ And other than calling my sister a ***** to her face when she made her own prom dress by hand and breaking her heart, he never had an open discussion with her about sexuality or relationships etc 

And yes, their relationship was always very strained and contentious. He was a great man and dutiful father in many other ways, but he was a total ass when it came to sexuality/relationships and marriage and she has had lifelong daddy issues because of it. 

People can disagree and argue what is a healthy vs unhealthy number if sex partners. 

But what I don’t see as even slightly questionable is how critical it is for families to be able to have open, honest discussions about it. 

Some people blame our sexually open and sexually charged social climate for all kinds of problems. 

The way I see it, the fact that society in general is more permissive, means that we as parents have to be MORE proactive and more approachable and more willing to roll up our sleeves and have these discussions with our kids.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Now you’re just being an arse.
> 
> Not everyone views the success or failures of a relationship according to your scale and metric.
> 
> ...


No, relationship that comes to a negative "conclusion" is a failure if both people wanted or expected it to last. It is like a marriage, if it ends in a divorce it is failure, does not matter how you paint it.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

kids need to learn some stuff on their own.
you can warn them, that is about it.

my daughter sophomore year says she wants to move out of the dorm room, and get her own apartment. i said it was a good idea, knowing what dorm rooms can be like.

she then says "my BF and I will share it". to which i replied "well, you do not know this guy that well, don't you think you need a place separate for privacy ?"

she was not hearing me at all, and six months later when they broke up but were still living together, i so much wanted to remind her what i had said, but had to keep my lips sealed. she learned that lesson the hard way!


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> This is BS!!
> 
> I had many serious boyfriends before meeting my husband. I was sexually active with some of them. There was nothing wrong with me. I was serious in terms of being a good, loyal girlfriend, but sometimes relationships don't flourish and fail.
> 
> You can't be serious thinking you are going to date and marry your first. This is fantasy to me.


No, it may not marry you first. Though I did. but if you have 3+ serious relationships then something is wrong with you.

If your husband feels special being with you when you had many boyfriends, then good for him. I personally would never be able to be with such woman. again, this is my personal perception.

At work you can fail a project, this is understandable, everyone probably does this in his or her career. Most reasonable employers understand this. You can even fail two. But if you fail 3+ you will be fired. Worse you will be deemed unemployable as nobody wants to get a person in his or her team ho failed 3+ projects.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Special is as special does.
> 
> I’m guessing you are roughly in your 40s. We were brought up in a different social and economic era.
> 
> ...


We are both in late 40s. We were brought up by loving secular parents, though sex was taboo in both of our families.

My two daughters are 19 and they are very selective in their relationships. And we never told them how to date or when to have sex. One of our daughter turned down a BF sexual advancement because she thought it was no serious enough and I am very proud of her(never said a word to her). It is better to wait until you are truly in love and then you can unleash all your sexual desires and kinks with that special person.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> To say oral is not sex you are definitely choosing to look the other way. Oral partners definitely add to your partner count.


I am saying that I accept my wife's past though it was not very easy for me. It is my personal discussion. My love for her outweighed everything else. But had she had 4 BFs and had romantic and sexual relationships with them I could not be with her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, relationship that comes to a negative "conclusion" is a failure if both people wanted or expected it to last. It is like a marriage, if it ends in a divorce it is failure, does not matter how you paint it.




Not everyone wants or assumes a relationship to be forever. Especially 20 year olds. 

20 year olds should NOT be seeking or especially expecting a relationship to be forever.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, it may not marry you first. Though I did. but if you have 3+ serious relationships then something is wrong with you.
> 
> If your husband feels special being with you when you had many boyfriends, then good for him. I personally would never be able to be with such woman. again, this is my personal perception.
> 
> At work you can fail a project, this is understandable, everyone probably does this in his or her career. Most reasonable employers understand this. You can even fail two. But if you fail 3+ you will be fired. Worse you will be deemed unemployable as nobody wants to get a person in his or her team ho failed 3+ projects.


Buddy I say this from the heart. 
Lighten the **** up!
This isn’t Victorian England where a failed romance would send the young woman to a convent. This is the twenty first century. 
I would hate for a daughter of yours to have to tell you she’s pregnant. Your judgemental pontificating here is bad enough.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I believe that if you've raised your kids with values, you don't have to worry about anything.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Not everyone wants or assumes a relationship to be forever. Especially 20 year olds.
> 
> 20 year olds should NOT be seeking or especially expecting a relationship to be forever.


I disagree with this with all my heart. Relationships can fall into two categories. They either can be ONS or hooks up, whatever the name is. Basically for short sexual pleasure. Ort they can be serious when two people are romantically in love and what to have future together. 

I personally do not want my girls to be involved with boys who do not "seek relationships forever".


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> Buddy I say this from the heart.
> Lighten the **** up!
> This isn’t Victorian England where a failed romance would send the young woman to a convent. This is the twenty first century.
> I would hate for a daughter of yours to have to tell you she’s pregnant. Your judgemental pontificating here is bad enough.


Even in 21st century there are values, at lease some of us who have them. My daughters wont become pregnant without commitment. They both have values and have pretty good sex ed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I


oldshirt said:


> Not everyone wants or assumes a relationship to be forever. Especially 20 year olds.
> 
> 20 year olds should NOT be seeking or especially expecting a relationship to be forever.


 I can't agree. One of my children, 2 neices and 2 of my nephew's met their now partners/ spouses at around that age. I also have several friends, now in their 60's, who met their spouses in their teens. It's really not uncommon.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> We are both in late 40s. We were brought up by loving secular parents, though sex was taboo in both of our families.
> 
> My two daughters are 19 and they are very selective in their relationships. And we never told them how to date or when to have sex. One of our daughter turned down a BF sexual advancement because she thought it was no serious enough and I am very proud of her(never said a word to her). It is better to wait until you are truly in love and then you can unleash all your sexual desires and kinks with that special person.


One of my daughters got rid of 2 boyfriend's who were pressuring her for sex after just a few dates.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I
> 
> I can't agree. One of my children, 2 neices and 2 of my nephew's met their now partners/ spouses at around that age. I also have several friends, now in their 60's, who met their spouses in their teens. It's really not uncommon.


That’s nice if that works out for them, but I cannot in good faith encourage 20 year olds to seek a binding commitment at that age and stage of life. 

Sure, there are going to be some kids that marry young and work out..... but the statistical odds are so against it that due diligence cannot in good faith encourage it en mass.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

These girls who have 3+ sexual partners by 20 and counting do not realize that they effectively waste their romantic and sexual capital and devalue themselves for their future partners. Good quality boys who have want commitment and feel special with their partner may no want to deal with this baggage. As I said it is hard to feel special when you are 5th or 6th or 20th on the list.
and what these girls are left with are similar minded guys who have ****ed as many if not more girls. So the girl is no more special as another bullet on his list. They marry such guys and then complain how their husbands lose interest in them looking elsewhere using porn or just plain cheat. They do this because they do not find them any special and what they effectively did their whole life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Sure, there are going to be some kids that marry young and work out..... but the statistical odds are so against it that due diligence cannot in good faith encourage it en mass.


As an example: even when I was in high school in the early 80s, the statistics on young marriage were very daunting and discouraging. 

Some people do fine after eating Tide Pods and huffing paint thinner - but that doesn’t mean we should be encouraging it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> These girls who have 3+ sexual partners by 20 and counting do not realize that they effectively waste their romantic and sexual capital and devalue themselves for their future partners. Good quality boys who have want commitment and feel special with their partner may no want to deal with this baggage. As I said it is hard to feel special when you are 5th or 6th or 20th on the list.
> and what these girls are left with are similar minded guys who have ****ed as many if not more girls. So the girl is no more special as another bullet on his list. They marry such guys and then complain how their husbands lose interest in them looking elsewhere using porn or just plain cheat. They do this because they do not find them any special and what they effectively did their whole life.


What do you think happens to girls who were taught that if they sleep around, no one will want them? That is the message you are sending.

So they have sex, the relationship ends for one reason or another (which may be totally out of the girls control), and now she's damaged goods and no good man will want her?

That's the message my wife's mother beat into her, and it turned out _soo_ well 

And, I met my wife at 14, started dating at 17, married at 21. That also didn't turn out well. Personally, I do not want my kids marrying young.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

bobert said:


> What do you think happens to girls who were taught that if they sleep around, no one will want them? That is the message you are sending.
> 
> So they have sex, the relationship ends for one reason or another (which may be totally out of the girls control), and now she's damaged goods and no good man will want her?
> 
> ...


I want my daughters to find the men they truly love and who will love them as much. Like their parents did. And then they may **** them as much a and as wild as they want. It may happen when they 20 or 25 or 35. Just because they have not found their men yet, does not mean they should engage in endless hook ups or empty relationships just to fulfill their sexual urge. I want my daughters to wait until they are in love before engage in sex.

And they absolutely should steer clear of boys who share the opinion just because they are young in their 20s they have carte blanche to **** around in "preparation" for "real" relationship.


One of my daughters wants to have BF very much. But despite this she refuses to go on Tinder as many of her girlfriends urge her to do . and I am very proud of her.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I want my daughters to find the men they truly love and who will love them as much. Like their parents did. And then they may **** them as much a and as wild as they want. It may happen when they 20 or 25 or 35. Just because they have not found their men yet, does not mean they should engage in endless hook ups or empty relationships just to fulfill their sexual urge. I want my daughters to wait until they are in love before engage in sex.
> 
> And they absolutely should steer clear of boys who share the opinion just because they are young in their 20s they have carte blanche to **** around in "preparation" for "real" relationship.
> 
> ...


And when they find men they truly love, who turn around and dump them, cheat on them, lied about things, etc., and they end up with more than one sexual partner, now they are less than. Great message.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, relationship that comes to a negative "conclusion" is a failure if both people wanted or expected it to last. It is like a marriage, if it ends in a divorce it is failure, does not matter how you paint it.


The purpose of dating is to find out if the other person is a good match. Sometimes it takes months, even a year or more, to find this out. It shows maturity to end a relationship when one finds out that the relationship is a bad match. Generally, this happens about about the 18-24 month timeframe because people tend to be on very good behavior for that time period. Then, after the first 18 months they relax and start showing their true colors. Ending a relationship early on when one realizes that the other person is not a good choice is a good quality, not a failure.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I want my daughters to find the men they truly love and who will love them as much. Like their parents did. And then they may **** them as much a and as wild as they want. It may happen when they 20 or 25 or 35. Just because they have not found their men yet, does not mean they should engage in endless hook ups or empty relationships just to fulfill their sexual urge. I want my daughters to wait until they are in love before engage in sex.
> 
> And they absolutely should steer clear of boys who share the opinion just because they are young in their 20s they have carte blanche to **** around in "preparation" for "real" relationship.
> 
> ...


People who go on tinder have many many more hookups than 4 by the age to 20. You are conflating hookups with relationships that ended because they were not good matches.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

bobert said:


> And when they find men they truly love, who turn around and dump them, cheat on them, lied about things, etc., and they end up with more than one sexual partner, now they are less than. Great message.


You probably judge based on your own experience or mix love and lust. Serious relationship commitment girls attract like minded guys (not those who ****ed zillion girls before them). Those guys will take relationship seriously, they will not seek sex before they know the girl and have strong feeling for her. and make sure the girl has equal strong feeling for him. They are compatible and have shared values and plans for the future. And once they reach the stage of sexual intimacy they are not going to dump or cheat on them.

My daughters do not need my message. Their own parents, their life and their love for each other is the best example. So their grandparents and their aunt.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> People who go on tinder have many many more hookups than 4 by the age to 20. You are conflating hookups with relationships that ended because they were not good matches.


Most relationship that are ought to end should end before people engage in sexual activity. If you have many relationship which end after you have sex you should evaluate your values really.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> You probably judge based on your own experience or mix love and lust. Serious relationship commitment girls attract like minded guys (not those who ****ed zillion girls before them). Those guys will take relationship seriously, they will no seek sex before they know the girl and have strong feeling for her. And once they reach the stage of sexual intimacy they are not going to dump or cheat on them.
> 
> My daughters do not need my message. Their own parents, their life and their love for each other is the best example. So their grandparents and their aunt.


If that's what you need to tell yourself...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> These girls who have 3+ sexual partners by 20 and counting do not realize that they effectively waste their romantic and sexual capital and devalue themselves for their future partners. Good quality boys who have want commitment and feel special with their partner may no want to deal with this baggage. As I said it is hard to feel special when you are 5th or 6th or 20th on the list.


Says a 45 year old man that grew up in a different era with a different set of values.

And who has likely been watching Richard Cooper and Rollo Tomassi videos who are also 50ish year old men who are marketing self-published books and panning for YouTube subscribers. 

As a 57 year old man myself that has had a few LTRs and has been married the last 26 yes, I will concede that 30+ years ago, I would have probably would not have pursued a young woman with a high notch count. 

But that would be based on my assumption that a woman with a high count would have no interest in me. 

So on that note, we are kind of in agreement that two men well into their 40s and 50s were not keen on 20 year old women with high notch counts in 1984. 

(I’m not saying 4 is necessarily a high count per se. I’m just making a conceptual point)

What is an unknown is how 30 year old men will respond to women’s sexual histories 10 years from now. 

Today’s 20 year olds are in a different social and cultural climate than we were 30 years ago. 

And 30 year olds will be in a somewhat different climate 10 years from now. 

My point being is when can not state what mores and standards and values 30 year men will have 10 years from now. 

I’m using 30 year olds as that is when today’s 20 year old men and women will probably be getting serious about making a home and family. 

What I can say with certainty is we as 45-60 year olds can’t use our mate selection criteria and values from 30 years ago as the standard for today’s 20 year olds in 10 years.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Says a 45 year old man that grew up in a different era with a different set of values.
> 
> And who has likely been watching Richard Cooper and Rollo Tomassi videos who are also 50ish year old men who are marketing self-published books and panning for YouTube subscribers.
> 
> ...


I completely agree that standards and culture changed since 50s or 60s. In those times waiting to have sex until you are married was almost unquestionable. Nowadays it is very rare and I personally strongly against waiting until marriage. Sexual compatibility is one of the most important and not to ensure you are sexually compatible is very bad idea.

But there are certain values and standards that are eternal. Most of us want monogamous relationship, we want to have committed relationship, we want to love and be loved. We want to be special and feel special for the person we love.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

40 years ago when I was coming into legal adulthood, the term was “premarital sex” and people who engaged in it were pretty scorned and chastised in society and was often quite suspect if they would be good mate material at all. 

In today’s world, someone in the mid 20s and beyond that has NOT had sex or some kind of meaningful relationship is looked upon with at least suspicion if not actual dismissal. 

A virginal 30 year woman would be quite suspect as to whether she would be able to interact on an intimate level with a mate and a 30 virginal male would probably be written off and dismissed all together. 

My point to this is cultural norms and values and standards to change over time. 

Asserting that a 20 year woman who has had 4 sex partners will be shunned by decent men is 1960s ideology. 

2030’s ideology is still to be determined.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> These girls who have 3+ sexual partners by 20 and counting do not realize that they effectively waste their romantic and sexual capital and devalue themselves for their future partners. Good quality boys who have want commitment and feel special with their partner may no want to deal with this baggage. As I said it is hard to feel special when you are 5th or 6th or 20th on the list.
> and what these girls are left with are similar minded guys who have ****ed as many if not more girls. So the girl is no more special as another bullet on his list. They marry such guys and then complain how their husbands lose interest in them looking elsewhere using porn or just plain cheat. They do this because they do not find them any special and what they effectively did their whole life.


Well MY VALUE isn't in my sex organs.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Asserting that a 20 year woman who has had 4 sex partners will be shunned by decent men is 1960s ideology.


Any woman or man can find a partner. It is not a problem. The problem is what kind of partner. A girl who slept with 20 men can easily find new BF... who also slept with 20 girls. I doubt such a relationship would flourish really.

High quality people (men or women alike) are looking and want likeminded partners. And buy engaging in endless hook ups or serious of failed relationships one devalues himself and herself and becomes disqualified in eyes of these high quality partners who are really people you can have life long happy committed relationship with.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, it may not marry you first. Though I did. but if you have 3+ serious relationships then something is wrong with you.
> 
> If your husband feels special being with you when you had many boyfriends, then good for him. I personally would never be able to be with such woman. again, this is my personal perception.
> 
> At work you can fail a project, this is understandable, everyone probably does this in his or her career. Most reasonable employers understand this. You can even fail two. But if you fail 3+ you will be fired. Worse you will be deemed unemployable as nobody wants to get a person in his or her team ho failed 3+ projects.


Projects aren't meant to be forever though. Maybe these relationships, like projects, accomplished a finite thing, and then came to a natural conclusion. Those relationship/projects may have been quite successful, and good learning experiences for the woman in question. Relationships that end aren't failures, they are character-building. They may have been exactly what this woman needed to have in her background to help her find the long-term relationship she is now in.



romantic_dreamer said:


> These girls who have 3+ sexual partners by 20 and counting do not realize that they effectively waste their romantic and sexual capital and devalue themselves for their future partners. Good quality boys who have want commitment and feel special with their partner may no want to deal with this baggage. As I said it is hard to feel special when you are 5th or 6th or 20th on the list.
> and what these girls are left with are similar minded guys who have ****ed as many if not more girls. So the girl is no more special as another bullet on his list. They marry such guys and then complain how their husbands lose interest in them looking elsewhere using porn or just plain cheat. They do this because they do not find them any special and what they effectively did their whole life.


This is a very generational mindset. Most young people today view sex as recreational. Most young men today would not devalue a woman for her number of previous sexual partners. They would appreciate a woman who has learned her own sexuality, and how to identify compatibility in a partner. They would appreciate the skills, familiarity and confidence she brings to their relationship. Both young men and women now rate good relationship material to be far more than just sexual inexperience. A solid relationship is built on many things, so why not be enjoying sex while assessing if your partner meets your expectations for the other characteristics you are looking for?

To the original poster: your daughter's sex life is no one's business but her own. If she feels comfortable sharing that information with you, then congratulations, you have raised a child into an adult who trusts you. Keep it that way by not being judgmental of her! She also appears to have been able to choose a good partner for a long-term relationship that may lead to marriage, so her sexual experience obviously served her well at learning how to navigate relationships.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I completely agree that standards and culture changed since 50s or 60s. In those times waiting to have sex until you are married was almost unquestionable. Nowadays it is very rare and I personally strongly against waiting until marriage. Sexual compatibility is one of the most important and not to ensure you are sexually compatible is very bad idea.
> 
> But there are certain values and standards that are eternal. Most of us want monogamous relationship, we want to have committed relationship, we want to love and be loved. We want to be special and feel special for the person we love.


And disco shall live forever they said in 1978. 

I don’t disagree with you in principle.

But I think where you are getting hung up on 
Is the numbers and how they impact your concept of “special.”

You may feel devalued if a woman has been with other guys before you, but that doesn’t mean that other men feel the same.

My wife and I were 26 and 30 when we got together. We had each had a few relationships and some hook ups when we met. 

I never felt devalued or not “special” due either of our pasts.

If anything I felt MORE special since we were choosing each other above all others....... and she had a lot of men to choose from. 

Will there be some men that may dismiss the OP’s daughter since she’s been with 4 dudes? Yeah maybe. Everyone is entitled to their own selection criteria. 

But there will probably be some other dudes that won’t think she has enough life and relationship experience.

And I guarantee you there will be lots of guys of her age cohort that simply won’t care as long as she is interacting with them well.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I personally strongly against waiting until marriage. Sexual compatibility is one of the most important and not to ensure you are sexually compatible is very bad idea.


...so you are against women having a few sexual partners, but also against waiting until marriage. Great logic.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Projects aren't meant to be forever though. Maybe these relationships, like projects, accomplished a finite thing, and then came to a natural conclusion. Those relationship/projects may have been quite successful, and good learning experiences for the woman in question. Relationships that end aren't failures, they are character-building. They may have been exactly what this woman needed to have in her background to help her find the long-term relationship she is now in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't want my daughters to engage with guys to see them as "character building experience" or a test bed to "learn their own sexuality". If you want your daughters to act as this kind if experience good luck to them. And 25+ years ago when my wife and I fell in love with each other we knew we would be together. We did not look at each other as some sort of step in gaining more experience. and we were 21 and 22 respectively.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

bobert said:


> ...so you are against women having a few sexual partners, but also against waiting until marriage. Great logic.


These are two completely different things. Before I married my wife we had sex 300+ times. With each other.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> And disco shall live forever they said in 1978.
> 
> I don’t disagree with you in principle.
> 
> ...


I express my own opinion and my own vision. Are there happy couples who meet and live happy life after ****ing around and having 30+ sexual partners? Yes, there are such couples. But I will believe that the more sexual partners one has and the more failed relationships one has the less likely she or he will have this life long happy marriage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Any woman or man can find a partner. It is not a problem. The problem is what kind of partner. A girl who slept with 20 men can easily find new BF... who also slept with 20 girls. I doubt such a relationship would flourish really.
> 
> High quality people (men or women alike) are looking and want likeminded partners. And buy engaging in endless hook ups or serious of failed relationships one devalues himself and herself and becomes disqualified in eyes of these high quality partners who are really people you can have life long happy committed relationship with.


You’re assigning value with the assumption that someone with lesser sexual experience as a higher quality person. 

You’re still assuming that if someone isn’t with the person they went to prom with has “failed.” 

Now I will agree that the sweet and innocent church virgin probably shouldn’t marry the stripper or marry the town lothario. 

But that is about a difference in fundamental values and mores and not that one person is necessarily “better” than the other.

The man and the woman that each have had 20 different partners over the course of their lives, likely have some what similar values, mores and lifestyles. If they are together, it’s probably because they clicked and like each other and feel comfortable with each other. 

As a general rule, the stripper and the church virgin are not going to be drawn to each other. 

People are generally drawn to those of similar background and similar lifestyle and religion and culture etc etc. 

You’re basing your opinion of people based on your values and lifestyle etc.

But a lot of the men in her age cohort are not going to be of your culture and lifestyle and values.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> These are two completely different things. Before I married my wife we had sex 300+ times. With each other.


Not really. If you would have realized that you and your wife were not compatible, you'd both increase your number. Possibly multiple times.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> These are two completely different things. Before I married my wife we had sex 300+ times. With each other.


If you had broken up before marriage for some reason then you would each have added another sexual partner to your tally with whom you had had sex countless times.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> ...so you are against women having a few sexual partners, but also against waiting until marriage. Great logic.


I do understand where he is coming from and in a sense agree. 

However the catch 22 and the contradiction here is on one hand he is advocating checking sexual compatibility off the the list to make sure they’re compatible.....which I tend to agree. 

But the contradiction is as was pointed out above, the point of dating is to get to know each other and determine compatibility and shared values and goals etc. 

But in that search, there will inevitably times that it is determined the relationship should not continue. 

So by Dreamer’s logic, she has now been devalued and now not worthy of future relationships. 

This is right out of the Victorian Era where men had to pay fines and damages for ending a courting relationship because now the woman was soiled and damaged.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, it may not marry you first. Though I did. but if you have 3+ serious relationships then something is wrong with you.
> 
> If your husband feels special being with you when you had many boyfriends, then good for him. I personally would never be able to be with such woman. again, this is my personal perception.
> 
> At work you can fail a project, this is understandable, everyone probably does this in his or her career. Most reasonable employers understand this. You can even fail two. But if you fail 3+ you will be fired. Worse you will be deemed unemployable as nobody wants to get a person in his or her team ho failed 3+ projects.


My love life wasn't a project. I can't compare a relationship with a work project. WTF?

I was my first's first. We were both a clumsy mess. We dated for over two years, we were deeply in love, and we thought we were going to get married at one point, but things didn't work out. Looking back, I have to say that sex really sucked with him, but I stayed because he was a good man. And he is a good husband and father now a days. He had many more girlfriends after me. I had a few boyfriends after him. 

I met my wild husband and I married him, and after almost 19 years of marriage sex is still awesome! I'm thankful I wasn't my husband's first. 

If you think sex starts and ends with your first, good for you! But that doesn't make the rest of us broken or damaged. We all want different things. 

I'd like for my kids to have a few sexual partners before getting married. I really don't want them to marry the first frog they kiss.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Welcome to TAM, where people discuss their daughter's sexuality and partner count in detail and at length. Yuck.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

bobert said:


> Not really. If you would have realized that you and your wife were not compatible, you'd both increase your number. Possibly multiple times.


Yes my wife and i would have been broken up if we turned out to be not sexually compatible. but we discussed our sexuality before we actually did this. so when we did have sex we were pretty much assured we would be compatible. and we were so much in love that we could certainly handle some incompatibility. 

And had I indeed found out I was incompatible with my wife my number would have increased from 0 to 1 (and her from 1 to 2 plus 2 oral sex hook ups). So I would have gotten that compatibility with my next and true partner. But if I had to go through 3 or 4 partners then something would been wrong with me.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> we discussed our sexuality before we actually did this. so when we did have sex we were pretty much assured we would be compatible.


Then there was no reason to have sex before marriage. There is no reason to take her for a test run if you were so sure. 



> I would have gotten that compatibility with my next and true partner. But if I had to go through 3 or 4 partners then something would been wrong with me.


If you couldn't get it right the first time, when you were so sure and so in love, what makes you think you'd for sure get it right the second time?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> My love life wasn't a project. I can't compare a relationship with a work project. WTF?
> 
> I was my first's first. We were both a clumsy mess. We dated for over two years, we were deeply in love, and we thought we were going to get married at one point, but things didn't work out. Looking back, I have to say that sex really sucked with him, but I stayed because he was a good man. And he is a good husband and father now a days. He had many more girlfriends after me. I had a few boyfriends after him.
> 
> ...


I respect your opinion and I am glad you feel happy with your husband after many years and many previous partners. I would never be able to do this. 

My wife and I were very sexually inexperienced when we started our life. I had 0 experience and she had slightly more experience but still very little. We learned our sexuality together, we explored what we liked and what we did not like. This is integral part of our life together and love for each other. Almost everything we did sexually in our life we did with each other. That's why it feels so special, so cherished, so wonderful. This would never be possible if either of us had 4+ partners.

I hope our kids never intercept in life.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

bobert said:


> If you couldn't get it right the first time, when you were so sure and so in love, what makes you think you'd for sure get it right the second time?


This is like marriage and divorce. You can get married and then get divorced. If you do this once it is probably OK for most people. But if you do this twice or three times then there is something wrong with you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> This is like marriage and divorce. You can get married and then get divorced. If you do this once it is probably OK for most people. But if you do this twice or three times then there is something wrong with you.


My brother is twice divorced but there is nothing wrong with him. Both his wives cheated. He has been in a happy and stable relationship now for over 10 years.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> My brother is twice divorced but there is nothing wrong with him. Both his wives cheated. He has been in a happy and stable relationship now for over 10 years.


I am happy for you brother. But it means he chose wrong women to marry. Twice.

If you look at the statistics of happy marriages, every additional divorce cuts chances of happy marriage almost in half.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes my wife and i would have been broken up if we turned out to be not sexually compatible. but we discussed our sexuality before we actually did this. so when we did have sex we were pretty much assured we would be compatible. and we were so much in love that we could certainly handle some incompatibility.
> 
> And had I indeed found out I was incompatible with my wife my number would have increased from 0 to 1 (and her from 1 to 2 plus 2 oral sex hook ups). So I would have gotten that compatibility with my next and true partner. But if I had to go through 3 or 4 partners then something would been wrong with me.


You said you talked about sex a lot before you married. That is always my point when people say to me that you can't know if you are sexually compatible unless you have sex. I say that we discussed it a lot while we were dating and didn't need to actually have sex to know we were on the same page sexually.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I am happy for you brother. But it means he chose wrong women to marry. Twice.
> 
> If you look at the statistics of happy marriages, every additional divorce cuts chances of happy marriage almost in half.


Actually they were/are nice women who I got on with very well. I was very sad when I lost them from the family. They both made stupid decisions sadly. He is on good terms with both of them as they share children. He is very forgiving. 
I am pretty sure his present relationship with be for life.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You said you talked about sex a lot before you married. That is always my point when people say to me that you can't know if you are sexually compatible unless you have sex. I say that we discussed it a lot while we were dating and didn't need to actually have sex to know we were on the same page sexually.


There is always a chance that despite everything people may find they are sexually incompatible. Though I have strong feeling that if two people are truly in love with each other (in love, not just lust) they would be able to to bridge some sexual incompatibility. I love my wife and I would do anything for her sexually even if this does not excite me directly. But the whole thought of bringing her sexual pleasure is more than enough for me to do this.

We did not have direct straightforward sex talk before we actually had sex. We were LDR for more than 1 year. But we felt the same towards sex, we both expressed our desire to be sexual and please each other sexually, we both let each other know how much we value sexuality and how important we see it in couple's life and love. So we had zero doubt when we finally did have sex that we would be fine despite all this inexperience.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Brooding dad said:


> _*..just for general knowledge her number at her age is less than mine and identical to my wife. Yes I am my wife’s 4th. *_


It kind of makes sense, now. 

Because you didn't have much experience before you met your wife, in your eyes, anyone who has more experience than you is looked upon as promiscuous or immoral.

Personally, I know quite a few women who have 'body counts' higher than 4. A lot higher than 4 if I'm being honest.

Don't forget - women don't get married right out of high school or college anymore like they were expected to years ago. They stay single for a long time now before settling down (if they choose to), which means they date a lot more people and get involved in way more relationships than women did many years ago. It's a whole different world out there now and it's no longer just a man's prerogative to sleep with who he pleases - women get to do that too, now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It kind of makes sense, now.
> 
> Because you didn't have much experience before you met your wife, in your eyes, anyone who has more experience than you is looked upon as promiscuous or immoral.


One of the differences between the girls and the boys.

Ask a guy how much experience is too much for a woman and he will give a response that basically says more notches than he has.

Ask a woman how little experience in a man is too little for her and her answer will basically be less than she has.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Almost everything we did sexually in our life we did with each other. That's why it feels so special, so cherished, so wonderful. This would never be possible if either of us had 4+ partners.


I'm glad it worked out for you. 

Our sex life is special, cherished, and wonderful too. To tell you the truth, I've never cared about my husband's past. I don't even know how many women he's been with!


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I hope our kids never intercept in life.


Please Lord!! 🙏


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> There is always a chance that despite everything people may find they are sexually incompatible. Though I have strong feeling that if two people are truly in love with each other (in love, not just lust) they would be able to to bridge some sexual incompatibility. I love my wife and I would do anything for her sexually even if this does not excite me directly. But the whole thought of bringing her sexual pleasure is more than enough for me to do this.
> 
> We did not have direct straightforward sex talk before we actually had sex. We were LDR for more than 1 year. But we felt the same towards sex, we both expressed our desire to be sexual and please each other sexually, we both let each other know how much we value sexuality and how important we see it in couple's life and love. So we had zero doubt when we finally did have sex that we would be fine despite all this inexperience.


We felt the same but didn't have sex till after we married. Otherwise things can go wrong and you end up breaking up. Then you date again and so on.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> We felt the same but didn't have sex till after we married. Otherwise things can go wrong and you end up breaking up. Then you date again and so on.


Great that waiting till marriage worked for you. I am against this because of various reasons. First, in most cases people (rightfully) live together before they get married. It means they are obviously having sex. Second, having first sex after marriage puts too much pressure on just married couple.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

I don’t think you are doing a bad job as a father. I think you are fine. I think it is great that your daughter wants to speak to you about these things.

body count being too high is in the eye of the beholder - but if it means something to someone, then they need to put up or shut up. At 20 years old, 4 would be too high for me, HOWEVER, I held myself to the same standard. I have only ever slept with my wife and she only had 1 before me. I would not have dated or married my wife if she had 4. To each their own, though. If she is cool with it, then so be it.

if that number was too high for you, the time to talk about it would have been in her early teens. This is what I plan to do with my children. I am of the belief that sex is extremely special and best shared with as few people as possible. Be a “one and only” if you feel you can pull it off. I think my kids (once they are of age) should only be having sex with someone they fall in love with. It makes the bond more special.

this is only my personal belief though - and it worked out well for me. I plan to pass on my beliefs to my children, but they will be the ones to decide how they want to live their lives. I can only give them my values and the tools to create a life of their own. They will decide if they want to follow my path or go a different route.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Brooding dad said:


> Sooo, just need a little help understanding a few things. I had the most awkward conversation of my life with my daughter Friday night. She is 20 and started seeing a guy a few months back who very nice and from the outside we just new these 2 were in love. It’s nice to see I’m glad she has found someone.
> 
> we started talking about college and what she wants from life and her relationship. I guess she got the idea that I was being dismissive of her relationship experience and gave me the “dad I’m not a kid anymore look” and then said this isn’t her first relationship. I told her I get it and didn’t think she was a child or too young to fall in love and I thought her relationship with current boyfriend was going well. She then feels the need to tell me all of her dating history not details but just who she dated and who she had sex with. We have always had a great relationship and spent tons of time together and talked about everything but this.
> 
> ...


I knew a woman in her mid twenties (not me) that had 30 partners by then, when she told me. Based on her track record (she is now 37), I would imagine her number is much higher. Four partners is a cake walk, and I'd say a pass for you.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> I knew a woman in her mid twenties (not me) that had 30 partners by then, when she told me. Based on her track record (she is now 37), I would imagine her number is much higher. Four partners is a cake walk, and I'd say a pass for you.


OP was talking about his daughter and her partner count (which I will say again, icks me out). I'm thinking he wasn't, however, contemplating her as a sex partner for himself 🙄 so I would certainly hope he would "pass".


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Brooding dad said:


> Sooo, just need a little help understanding a few things. I had the most awkward conversation of my life with my daughter Friday night. She is 20 and started seeing a guy a few months back who very nice and from the outside we just new these 2 were in love. It’s nice to see I’m glad she has found someone.
> 
> we started talking about college and what she wants from life and her relationship. I guess she got the idea that I was being dismissive of her relationship experience and gave me the “dad I’m not a kid anymore look” and then said this isn’t her first relationship. I told her I get it and didn’t think she was a child or too young to fall in love and I thought her relationship with current boyfriend was going well. She then feels the need to tell me all of her dating history not details but just who she dated and who she had sex with. We have always had a great relationship and spent tons of time together and talked about everything but this.
> 
> ...


I'm conflicted with your post. It could be perceived that you have a close enough relationship that she is now willing to share that aspect of her life with you (whereas she hasn't before) and is simultaneously encouraging the dynamic to change between you by wanting you to view her as an adult. 

And yet, it could also be an opportunity for you to communicate to her that she doesn't need to prove herself one way or another through her choices of intimate relationships (regardless of whether they were/are casual or not). Is it fair to say that you could demonstrate to her that so long as she is good with her own choices, and if they don't cause anyone harm, then she ought to lead through that as part of being an adult - without the need to seek approval, opinion, or otherwise?

I do also reflect the feeling of @Livvie in finding the topic odd.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Edited as I misread the post. Although I still feel this:

And if she gauges her own father has reacted to her history in that way (even through unintentional signals), then I hope that she learns that it's nobody's business but hers.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Great that waiting till marriage worked for you. I am against this because of various reasons. First, in most cases people (rightfully) live together before they get married. It means they are obviously having sex. Second, having first sex after marriage puts too much pressure on just married couple.


We didn't live together and we didn't feel under pressure.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> Yes, it does come across like this to me as well.
> 
> And if she gauges her own father has reacted to her history in that way (even through unintentional signals), then I hope that she learns that it's nobody's business but hers.


...and the business of her potential partners


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

romantic_dreamer said:


> ...and the business of her potential partners


That's not my view and so don't tack your opinion onto mine.

Your perspective has already been stated throughout the thread.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> We felt the same but didn't have sex till after we married. Otherwise things can go wrong and you end up breaking up. Then you date again and so on.


But if you have sex after you get married and find out you are NOT compatible, then you will have to get a divorce, announcing your "failure" to family, friends and the rest of the world. And then you date again and so on. I don't get this logic.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> But if you have sex after you get married and find out you are NOT compatible, then you will have to get a divorce, announcing your "failure" to family, friends and the rest of the world. And then you date again and so on. I don't get this logic.


We knew we were on the same page about sex because we talked about it before quite a lot. You don't have to actually have sex to know if you are compatible.
Most people who come here with sex issues lived together first, so having sex before marriage definitely isn't a good way of knowing if you are compatible and are going to remain compatible.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> We knew we were on the same page about sex because we talked about it before quite a lot. You don't have to actually have sex to know if you are compatible.
> Most people who come here with sex issues lived together first, so having sex before marriage definitely isn't a good way of knowing if you are compatible and are going to remain compatible.


I really don't see how you can better establish if you are compatible sex-wise by NOT having sex instead of having it!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I really don't see how you can better establish if you are compatible sex-wise by NOT having sex instead of having it!


I can understand that many cant understand this, but one of the very important things for us compatibility wise was that we both shard the belief that sex is for marriage only. So that in itself put us on a firm foundation. Also the belief about not depriving the other of sex, and the importance of sex to bond the couple, plus that sex isnt just physical and emotional but important spiritually.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Well one of the very important things for us compatibility wise was that we both wanted to wait for marriage. So that in itself put us on a strong foundation.


Everything else is bio-mechanical.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I can understand that many cant understand this, but one of the very important things for us compatibility wise was that we both shard the belief that sex is for marriage only. So that in itself put us on a firm foundation. Also the belief about not depriving the other of sex, and the importance of sex to bond the couple, plus that sex isnt just physical and emotional but important spiritually.


I understand where you are coming from, and I respect it, but we agree to disagree...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I understand where you are coming from, and I respect it, but we agree to disagree...


Yes of course. 😊


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Livvie said:


> I still can't believe everyone is okay discussing and analyzing the OP's DAUGHTER'S sex life like this.
> 
> This isn't his partner/wife being discussed. It's his daughter.
> 
> I have 2 similarly aged children to OP and I couldn't fathom discussing their partner count and sexuality like this.


I agree none of us is the Chastity Police, but she chose to discuss her sex life w/ him and he asked us if he'd failed as a father.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Anyone else feel the need to share and analyze _their daughter's_ sex count? 

If there's enough interest, maybe it should be a whole new section on the forum titled "Sex life of Your Daughter". Where dads can all talk about that stuff. Gag.

It's bad enough that women are judged by their own potential and current partners by their sex count, but having a father do it too is just beyond. 

I'm surprised the discussion hasn't evolved into wondering the type of sex this daughter was participating in, too and how it reflects on OP's parenting (spare me). Did she blow the guys? Did she do ANAL???? What does that say about OP as a father 🙄


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Anyone else feel the need to share and analyze _their daughter's_ sex count?
> 
> If there's enough interest, maybe it should be a whole new section on the forum titled "Sex life of Your Daughter". Where dads can all talk about that stuff. Gag.
> 
> ...


A good father would caution his daughter as to the future impact of multiple sex partners and overall immoral behavior. Judgement is natural in biological and relationship matters. No-one is to dictate what they think is fair for them to be judged on. They get judged on what the person considering whether they are worthy of being in a relationship with deems fit to judge them on.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Dictum Veritas said:


> A good father would caution his daughter as to the future impact of multiple sex partners and overall immoral behavior. Judgement is natural and in biological and relationship matters. No-one is to dictate what they think is fair for them to be judged on. They get judged on what the person considering a relationship deems fit to judge them on.


So you are saying you think it's just fine for a father to be having an emotional snit fit about his daughters sex count. You might think it's cool. I think it's extremely INAPPROPRIATE in many many many many ways.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So you are saying you think it's just fine for a father to be having an emotional snit fit about his daughters sex count. You might think it's cool. I think it's extremely INAPPROPRIATE in many many many many ways.


If I became aware of one of my daughters crossing the bounds into what I deem to be unhealthy for their futures in any facet of their lives, including their sexual conduct, I will definitely give them a stern talking to.

Would I share it here? I personally won't, but I will not shy away from telling them exactly what I think about their choices.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Dictum Veritas said:


> A good father would caution his daughter as to the future impact of multiple sex partners and overall immoral behavior. Judgement is natural in biological and relationship matters. No-one is to dictate what they think is fair for them to be judged on. They get judged on what the person considering whether they are worthy of being in a relationship with deems fit to judge them on.


Which means she will be ruling out mates unsuitable for her.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Thought I’d post this because I hear many people comment a high partner count or a low partner count. 

looking at the chart are people saying a low partner count is one more than median and a high partner count is one more than median.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> View attachment 80124
> 
> 
> Thought I’d post this because I hear many people comment a high partner count or a low partner count.
> ...


I ask because I think high and low are very subjective to personal experience


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> So you are saying you think it's just fine for a father to be having an emotional snit fit about his daughters sex count. You might think it's cool. I think it's extremely INAPPROPRIATE in many many many many ways.


I find your consternation about this thread quite interesting (if not disturbing) 

So parents should not have open discussions with their children about relationships and sexuality?????


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> @Brooding dad
> 
> I am going to concede this as reality - - men as a collective will take into account a woman's sexual history as part of their selection criteria for actual relationships.
> 
> ...


Sometimes, this is just the way things go. I understand where the thought process comes from, as I’ve explained in previous posts. Doesn’t make it right and doesn’t make it fair (unless the man holds himself to the same standard. Yes, there are those of us out there).


either way, I’m glad you brought up this undeniable truth: life isn’t fair. Never has been. Never will be. One can either complain about it or adapt and do the best they can with the hand they are dealt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm having a huge problem with where this thread has gone. The OP came here for help in dealing with something that happened between him and his daughter. Now we have a many page thread jack trashing women who dare to have sex prior to marriage. How does this help the OP? This thread jack is being deleted. If you post on this thread, only post directly to the OP.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm having a huge problem with where this thread has gone. The OP came here for help in dealing with something that happened between him and his daughter. Now we have a many page thread jack trashing women who dare to have sex prior to marriage. How does this help the OP? This thread jack is being deleted. If you post on this thread, only post directly to the OP.


I totally agree with you. The usual posters thrashing women for having sex before marriage or multiple sex partners quoting biological impulses? We are in the 21st century.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Brooding dad said:


> View attachment 80124
> 
> 
> Thought I’d post this because I hear many people comment a high partner count or a low partner count.
> ...


Yep.

Of issue here is that for people who care about the count, each has their own criteria. For many men, that number is less than what they have by as much as possible. 

I had never even heard of men caring about a 'count' until I came here to TAM. I've never been ask for my count by any guy I've been on date with or had a relationship with. I don't know of any one who was ever asked that question.

Apparently some men put a LOT of weight on this. Some don't. There are plenty of men that care more about what a woman is like in their relationship and don't put a lot of weight on her path in life that got her to were she's a good partner for him. 

Your daughter will be fine.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Apparently some men put a LOT of weight on this. Some don't. There are plenty of men that care more about what a woman is like in their relationship and don't put a lot of weight on her path in life that got her to were she's a good partner for him.


I never did. Who cares? As long as you are having a good and fulfilling relationship, the past doesn't matter. I've had girlfriends with many partners, one with 1 partner and one with no partners before me. So what? As long as you are compatible, the past is the past. I really don't understand this obsession with it. Now, let's wait for the backlash and another 3,000 posts...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Brooding dad said:


> View attachment 80124
> 
> 
> Thought I’d post this because I hear many people comment a high partner count or a low partner count.
> ...


There is no set answer to how many is too many. If your daughter's soon to be fiancé is okay with her past that is all that matters. You didn't fail as a father. In fact her talking so openly probably means the opposite She is comfortable enough around you to talk so openly about a topic that most children (even adult children) are too embarrassed to talk about. That is a very good thing and you should be proud of that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There is no set answer to how many is too many. If your daughter's soon to be fiancé is okay with her past that is all that matters. You didn't fail as a father. In fact her talking so openly probably means the opposite She is comfortable enough around you to talk so openly about a topic that most children (even adult children) are too embarrassed to talk about. That is a very good thing and you should be proud of that.


This ^^^^^^^

It’s when kids are talking to us about uncomfortable topics that we know we are doing it right.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

In your shoes at 20 (my daughter is 21) I'd be a little disappointed with the 4 number, but it's not a crazy failure. I think my daughter is at 2 right now, but it could be higher. I'm technically not supposed to know about any of them, but I know 1 for sure and highly suspect the 2nd one. Anything beyond that would be a casual "hookup" that she'd never admit.

It might depend on the circumstances. It's not WAY high.


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## Brooding dad (Nov 13, 2021)

She is a good girl and I do feel some regret for starting this topic. Wow, did some of the comments get out of control. Some of the post even for someone who is a little conservative like myself were way out in left field. 

I do feel the need to defend her in saying that her first relationship ended due to her family relocating.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Brooding dad said:


> She is a good girl and I do feel some regret for starting this topic. Wow, did some of the comments get out of control.


Pretty much anybody can post stuff here and the internet removes lots of barriers to sounding crazy. If you're not ready to get a bunch of crazy responses for every worthwhile one, this isn't the place for you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

There is a contingent of very harsh posters (the harsh police, I call them) here on TAM who will shred you to pieces, getting even personal if they got out of bed on the wrong side. You'd better get used to them and grow a second layer of thick skin, if at all possible...


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