# The Valentines day Massacre (aka how I destroyed my marriage)



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

A few weeks ago, I posted about how I upset my wife on her B-day and she called it "strike 2" 

For this incident, we have to rewind to about 2 weeks before Valentines day. My wife had to go out of town on a business trip. While she was gone, I did my best to maintain our household and get some important tasks done.

Here's an example of how my week went
-Cleaned out the oven which we had soaked in a Baking soda/Dishwasher detergent solution. 
-Sold a Huge collection of Heroclix (superhero gaming figures) for $700. Thought she would be exhilirated about this, since she's been wanting to sell all my hobby/gaming stuff.
-Spent about 2 days packing and locating a solid box/packing materials to ship out aforementioned collection.
-Went to the Post office multiple times to return her dysfunctional mobile phone to AT&T (had an invalid tracking #),had to call them and get another label.
-Had to deliver a money order to our previous Apt so they would send a collection agency after us(long story)

Most of these were time sensitive and of course I spent some time visiting family, friends and some old hobby shops to meet other people interested in my hobbies. Also spent a little time on my computer.

On Friday, before she came home, I called her to ask when her flight would be landing. When I got home from work, I knew I'd have a lot of cleaning to do, so I made a quick lunch and started cleaning our house. I initially planned on making her a nice Spaghetti dinner, but I wasn't sure if I would have time to run to the store and get some hamburger. I decided perhaps I would heat up a Pizza or perhaps buy some takeout instead. I texted her to call me when she landed so I could throw the Pizza in the oven and have it hot and fresh when she got home.

Her flight arrived a little early, of course, so I called her and asked if she'd prefer Pizza or some takeout Chinese food. She said "Don't worry about it, we'll figure something out when I get home". 

I continued cleaning, but also got distracted by some videos on Youtube since I wasn't concerned about making dinner anymore.

When she came home, the first comment she made was about there was ice on the sidewalk, and I could've at least cleaned that off. Shortly after, she asked why I hadn't prepared her dinner yet, because she was famished. I offered to take her somewhere or pick up Chinese food. She finally opted to call her favorite local place that's about 3 min away and I ran over and picked up the food about 10 min we ordered. 

Throughout the following weekend, she seemed to get more and more upset/disappointed that I hadn't managed to clean the entire house and didn't have dinner waiting for. She made a comment that I shouldn't have called to ask her what she wanted, but should have just made her food. I asked if she would've been okay if I had made Pizza and she replied "Really?! Why would I want Pizza after I've been eating Junk food all week?" She also mentioned that I only called her when I needed something (like the box for shipping). I know that's not true, but that was her perception of it.

Long story short, she spent the entire rest of the week moping/pouting around the house and not really talking to me. It was honestly pretty depressing. Throughout the week, I tried to help by making dinner/cleaning up. Also, bought flowers in advance for Valentines day. During all this there was hardly a thank you or any positive comments. She actually made some rather hurtful comments and said she wanted to go back to the Philippines for her Birthday and wasn't sure if she would come back.

Meanwhile at work, we were extremely busy and they were offering extra incentives (Kroger Gift cards in addition to Overtime pay) to come in on our day off. I initially declined, since it was Valentines day and I had some special plans for Valentines Day evening. Eventually, after almost a week of dealing with her cold shoulder treatment, I re-considered working on Sat just to get the extra money and gift cards. I figured I may as well if she's still pissed and then surprise here with a nice dinner/massage for Valentines Day that would hopefully make everything better. I asked her if it was okay if I worked some OT that weekend and she said "Fine, just do whatever you want, I don't care, etc"

As Valentine's Evening approached, I let her know I had some nice dinner plans/surprises for her. She comemnted that if I wanted to do something special, I shouldn't have worked that morning. A few moments later, I noticed her mother (in PH) had sent me some concerned texts about how upset her Daughter was and how she was even thinking about coming home. I grew deeply worried and went down to talk to her, while she was watching TV. Eventually, after insisting that she let me know what's going on, and apologizing for messing up, she stood up and started crying and telling me all the reasons she was upset.

It was a lot of things ranging from me not spending enough time with her, being distracted by my Computer, interupting her when she was talking to me, being too defensive. 

She said she wanted to go for a drive and left me at home. I was honestly thinking this would be a Divorce on Valentines day. Eventually, she came back and asked if I was hungry and we went out to Wafflehouse to have a late night dinner.

Since then, things have improved aside from when I messed up her B-day, but every once in awhile she complains about the terrible status of our relationship. 

Last night, we had a talk she said I had hurt her so much recently, despite her being so nice and too patient with me. She also mentioned she didn't like being around my family and putting on a "happy face" and pretending she was okay, when she really wasn't.

I asked her what we could do to fix this relationship, and she responded "Idk, I'm not sure I want to fix this/or it can be fixed"

I'm not sure if it was JUST this incident that messed my relationship with my wife up, but she is defintely not happy with the way it is. I've purchaed No More Mr. Nice Guy based on reccomendations fromy my previous post. I hope this and some people here can help me recover this relationship.

What advice can you offer?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Won't offer much right now as more seasoned people will respond, but take a step back....the problem is not just you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What has she done to improve the relationship, other than criticize everything you do (and, it seems, quite unfairly)? Is she perfect, and doing everything right and meeting all your needs and standards? If not, stop being a doormat and stand up for your needs and tell her to stop being so petty and critical.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

You cannot win. NNMNG, counseling. Your wife has extremely unrealistic expectations.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I have a feeling even if you had done all the things that she accused you of not doing, she would have just found another few reasons to be mad at you. You need to quit being so nice and start standing up for yourself. If she has a problem with something, she should come to you and tell you about it instead of getting mad and sulking like a 2 year old. Your wife is very immature. If she threatens to go back home to mama, buy her a ticket and help her pack her bags.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

Your wife scolds and treats you like a little boy.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Your wife sounds like an entitled princess who will never be satisfied. Always complaining, can't see the positive, and is quick to blame others (ex. her complaint about pizza/take out, when you clearly advertised this intent in advance; that was her opportunity to ask for something "not junk food"). 

It could be that she's just a miserable person who will never be happy with anything. 

*From there however, I'm going to offer you a little different story than you've been given so far:*

I suspect more likely, she simply doesn't respect you. The endless complaining and dismissive attitude are control mechanisms. They keep you running around like a monkey trying to cater to her and receive approval. But in her subconscious, they're all tests you keep failing.

Meaning you no insult, you appear to have quite a few doormat behaviors. You don't sell off your hobby collection because she wants you to. You do so or not because you want to. It is not "being defensive" to tell her that if she wanted "healthy food", the time to have said so was when you suggested pizza/take out. She said "don't worry about it". But there's another side of this coin. When a woman is incessantly complaining about a man who is obviously trying to cater... the complaints are really her language for saying "show some balls, independence and leadership". It's a kind of sh*t test... testing a man's suitability.

You need to call her out on the moping behavior. Lead. Suggest doing something together that counters the moping... if she refuses, go do it on your own. You need to stop trying to cater to her, and show more leadership and independent thought.

Most of her behaviors, imo, can be tied to the fact that you are an approval seeker. Until you can figure out how to be assertive, independent and decisive, even call her on her bullsh*t... you'll continue to get this sort of behavior. Right now, you're hanging on her every whim leaves her in a state of ... anxiety... for lack of a better word. You appear weak, she has no confidence in you to be in control, so her feelings toward you are sour, and this gets expressed at every opportunity. Consider how you would treat a child. If you are catering and seeking their approval, you'll often wind up with a little demon child. One who will keep you twisting in the wind while they are never pleased. Instead of "yay, you got me ice cream", it's "why didn't you give me a cherry on top?" It's a result of being submissive to the child, and not rebuking the unacceptable. Children don't actually want this, and the children of catering, weak parents are usually unhappy. They want dominance, certainty and consistent structure from parents, because they derive security from it. They come to believe their parents are competent and all will be well, and a number of negative, even manipulative, behaviors fall away.

I suspect some women are similar. She appears to be one of those that wants more leadership and dominance from a man. You are submissive to her. You're an approval seeker or validation seeker. Reading NMMNG is a start.

Stop catering to her, and be a mindful, assertive, independent man. You want to keep your collection? "I'm keeping my collection. I enjoy collecting these things." It's not up for debate. It's part of who you are. She doesn't have to approve of everything you do. Don't know what she wants to eat upon returning for a flight? You're not wrong to ask a well balanced woman what she'd prefer. Your wife is not a well balanced woman. Make the spaghetti. Your first priority is to show her you don't need her guidance or approval of every little thing (ie, that she can trust you to make a reasonable dinner decision, and to take into account relevant factors like her likely having eaten junk on her trip). She might even complain that you made spaghetti rather than asking her. That's just another sh*t test. A subconscious ploy of hers to see if you go right back to being submissive. Your reply is simple: "I made spaghetti because I wanted spaghetti, and figured you'd want some home food too. If you wanted something in particular, you should have said so." Own your behavior, and put the onus on her to own hers.

Start there, and the complaints about everything else will decline. You'll start building respect.

ps - You mentioned her moving "back" to the Philippines? Something to be aware of, is that many Asian cultures are very male dominated. Her complaints and dissatisfaction with your submissiveness and approval seeking may be exacerbated by her upbringing. She may have a different prototype of how a man is supposed to act as a result.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

My take is a bit different. I think it's more you took her from her warm climate home and family and moved her to a place with icy walks and no mom.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> I*'m not sure if it was JUST this incident* that messed my relationship with my wife up, but she is defintely not happy with the way it is. I've purchaed No More Mr. Nice Guy based on reccomendations fromy my previous post. I hope this and some people here can help me recover this relationship.
> 
> What advice can you offer?


No this is not "JUST and incident". 

While to you she is not making any sense, she thinks that she is clearly telling you that TO HER there are serious problems and she is not being heard and that nothing has changed. I would bet, that if she were here to post, she would say that she has been trying to get you to take this seriously for a long time, probably years. 

But now it's built up to the point that she believes that talking about it with you will do nothing. That is why she is holding back talking to you.

When a person complains about what seem to be trivial things as though they are a mountain, it's because they see a mountain that they cannot move... and those trivial things are just the latest specks laid down on a whole mountain of specks and boulders that have all added up to make that mountain.

My advice is that if you want to save your marriage you take this very serious. Your wife is about to walk out. IF she does, it's very unlikely that you will be able to talk her back into the marriage.

My suggestion is that you schedule marriage counseling and you ask her to go with you.. because you do not want to lose her.

Read the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". After you read them and you do your part of the work they suggest, you ask her to read them and work on it with her.

If you want to stay married, you need to take this very seriously.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You work a job and she works a job, so you both bring home outside income. You also are responsible for taking care of the house and cooking, while she feels no obligation toward the housework other than to complain. I am guessing that she makes more money than you and does not respect you because of it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The agenda of your marriage:
You guess what is wrong, try to do all these thigns to fix it while she sits back and tells you "not yet".

What it should be:
You expect her to work with you on building a mutually fulfilling marriage or choose to go back to the phillipines so you can find someone who is willing to create something great with you.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think I'll wait for your recap of how you messed up Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween, July 4th, May day, Easter & St. Patrick's day before offering any advice.

One thing is clear: You two are not communicating effectively. Perhaps it is a language/cultural problem.

Another thing is time management. You suck at it. One doesn't wait until the day their spouse is arriving home to start cleaning the house & planning on what to cook. 

You had plenty of time to fart around with your hobby & visit family, friends & fellow hobbyists but couldn't stop by store to buy something to cook for dinner. Not to mention the computer & stopping the cleaning to gaze at Youtube videos. 

More to come with future revelations. Don't worry, your wife will get picked on, too.


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## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE (Mar 13, 2015)

Son. Best way to straighten this out if you want to save your marriage is by taking charge. Don't be abusive, but be a man. A woman like this needs somebody who is not a pushover.
She is treating you like a pet not an equal. Don't tell here you made plans that she might like. Take charge. Tell her to get her coat and hat and take her out to dinner. She will pout, she will tell you no, but stick to it. She really wants you to be a man. Even today women want a strong man and she is trying to get that from you. She gets mad when you don't. AGAIN DO NOT ABUSE HER but let her know you are in charge sometimes.
Also read my post about marriage and interference. She needs to get her Mom out your marriage.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Omar174 said:


> Your wife scolds and treats you like a little boy.


:iagree:
People will treat you as you allow them.
You can't control her but you sure as [email protected] can control with what you will or will not put up with.
NMMNG read it.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> she stood up and started crying and telling me all the reasons she was upset.
> 
> It was a lot of things ranging from me not spending enough time with her, being distracted by my Computer, interupting her when she was talking to me, being too defensive.


Although she sure strikes me like a spoiled princess, is there any truth to these things?


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I asked her what we could do to fix this relationship, and she responded "Idk, I'm not sure I want to fix this/or it can be fixed"
> 
> I'm not sure if it was JUST this incident that messed my relationship with my wife up, but she is defintely not happy with the way it is. I've purchaed No More Mr. Nice Guy based on reccomendations fromy my previous post. I hope this and some people here can help me recover this relationship.
> 
> What advice can you offer?


JukeboxHero, if your description is accurate then you have a real challenge in repairing your marriage. No More Mr. Nice Guy is one way to go. And you'll get plenty of encouragement for drawing lines in the sand from others.

But I'd like to offer another perspective.

By your own description, it sounds to me like your wife is very controlling. Unfortunately, she is really bad at it and blames you for her frustration. Assuming, again, that your description is accurate, you are making a genuine effort to accommodate her but she is not appreciating your efforts. Not good.

I hope you will not feel insulted if I explore the possibility that there is something missing from your description. It may be that she is telling you something that you are not hearing. And if that is the case, it could be the cause of her frustration. People commonly come to TAM and vent but we can only hear one side and can only imagine what the spouse would say.

So in the hope that this is the case here, may I suggest that you make time with your with with no distractions. Sit down with her with a notepad in hand, and ask her straight up what is really upsetting her. Don't argue, just listen and take notes.

Let her know how important she is to you but instead of arguing with her about her complaints, just try to explain that there might be a better way for her to get what she wants from you than how she's going about it now. Draw her into a discussion of her methods and see if you can't get her to rethink how she's treating you.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Going to respond to a couple of posts.


@DvIsAdv, OLDMARRIED
I agree, with almost everything you said 100%. I feel she doesn't respect me and part of that is because I'm probably a pushover /seeking approval in a lot of ways. Even she's told me that she wishes I was more manly (and behaved more like a "normal" person in public) she often thinks I draw too much attention to myself and tries to make sure I look and behave in a "normal" way. She also has told me that she wishes I would help build a family* and lead us, but she also wants me to give up all my hobbies/fun stuff. As far as the stuff I've sold, I definitely want to sell some as I have/had quite a bit of stuff that was just collecting dust, and I intend to use most of that money to pay off old debts.

@Blondilocks
You're right too, and thanks for representing a female opinion. My time management, in this case was pretty bad. Granted, I spent a lot of time trying to get stuff packed and going to the post office, but I could have certainly cleaned some ahead of time and stopped by the store and purchased the food, had I planned ahead a bit. I'm definitely not saying she doesn't have the right to be upset. I know she probably would've had a delicious dinner waiting for me.
I'm sure if I had at least prepared her a homemade dinner, she would've been much happier. 

2 things I need to work on, Time management and staying Focused 

@Elegirl
I would like to go to Marriage counseling, and I even suggested getting advice from a priest at her Catholic church, but she doesn't want to go. However, I am going to look into those books you mentioned. 

----------------------HOWEVER--------------------------
In Defense of my Wife, I don't know if I would call her a spoiled princess, but she does like to keep the house neat and tidy and she is a bit controlling. She even admits (in a half-joking way) that she has "a terrible OCD" and doesn't like any thing being left out, lights being left on, etc. I'm a bit forgetful and while I wouldn't call myself a slob, but I do tend to procrastinate in putting things away/turning off lights immediately. 

Also, she is a hard-worker and for the most part, in our marriage, she takes charge of getting things done. She set up bills to be paid from her phone, decides we need to start cleaning during the weekend and she doesn't usually stop until she's done, or exhausted. I've been trying more and more to do my Fair share and beyond, but I still feel like I'm more or less the assistant, mostly because she likes things done a certain way (she needs to approve of how the laundry is loaded and clothes are folded)

There are also times in the past when I've been distracted too much by games, my Computer, phone, FB, whatever. Sometimes for legitimate reasons like selling stuff, and sometimes to take a break. Over the past few months, I've been definitely trying to cut back a lot and spend 'un-distracted' time with her. Ironically, she's been more distracted then before by her phone/ipad now.

Lastly, since she comes from a culture where she lived her whole life with her family, I know she misses them and how they treated her (which was like a princess, especially because she was their only daughter). I think she's also a bit depressed because of the cold, dark, miserable winter days.

*One of the other frustrating aspects of our marriage is we don't have sex that much and probably can't have kids. I'm not sure what she means by build a family, but I know she wants us to plan our future together and try to buy a house, get better paying jobs, etc.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I'm a bit forgetful and while I wouldn't call myself a slob, but I do tend to procrastinate in putting things away/turning off lights immediately.
> 
> Also, she is a hard-worker and for the most part, in our marriage, she takes charge of getting things done. She set up bills to be paid from her phone, decides we need to start cleaning during the weekend and she doesn't usually stop until she's done, or exhausted.


It really sounds to me like your wife needs to be in control. She sees what needs to be done. Her frustrations may simply stem from her perception that you don't respect her hard work and determination to make things work. (That doesn't excuse how she treats you but it might explain it.)



> *One of the other frustrating aspects of our marriage is we don't have sex that much and probably can't have kids. I'm not sure what she means by build a family, but I know she wants us to plan our future together and try to buy a house, get better paying jobs, etc.


This is a big topic all to itself. Why so little sex? Why do you think you can't have kids? Could she be worrying that you will go childless?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It sounds to me like you have your priorities messed up. Your wife doesn't feel you put her first and she doesn't respect you, because you are acting like a child, rather than a grown up man.
One of your main priorities should be to protect your wife from danger, yet there was ice on her path to the door. That should have been the first thing on your mind.
When she got in from a long day, why on earth would you call and ask her what to do about dinner? I can see why she was irritated. I would be too. If you cannot figure out how to make dinner without her help, that is a problem, especially since you were already not taking care of your priorities.
You make a list of what you did do, but that doesn't matter if you didn't do the basic things that a responsible adult would do, like making sure the house is clean, your wife doesn't bash her head on the sidewalk, and she has something to eat when she gets home.
First things first, everything else comes later. That should be your new motto.
I suspect your wife feels she has to do everything and you are looking to her for something as simple as putting dinner on the table. Not good.
Take responsibility for yourself and your wife will stop treating you like a child.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You married a third world princess. I don't say this lightly as my mother was from the Philippines. She sees the poverty of the Philippines and should be grateful for the American way of life. You have spoilt her.

On the other hand, you act like a desperate husband - always wanting validation from her. Filipino men will not allow their wives to tell them to clean the house! In the Filipino mindset, you are wearing an apron and therefore, cannot be respected as the man of the house. You can share tasks as my parents did, but not be dictated nor expected upon to clean the house by yourself. You are reduced to a housekeeper.

Your wife is demanding. She expects for you to do things for her to make her happy. Make her be responsible for her happiness. You will tire of this princess in due time. This princess will turn into a hag as she gets old. Your choice to stay in this marriage which is a juvenile relationship. You need to see a psychologist to get your mindset in the right direction.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I will second, third and fourth those replies that say she has no respect for you. They are bang on.

Your description of your wife echoes that of my ex wife, and how you treat her echoes how I treated her. At the time, I had no one (and no TAM) to tell me what was going on - I just assumed that women want a man to treat them like a princess. They may even want this at first, but eventually, it gets tiresome. I could say the same if I married a woman who was a pushover and catered to my every need.

My ex wife took 14 years to get to the point where she truly had enough, and left for somebody else. Yes, it was her fault for not communicating her needs to me, but maybe in her mind she did, and I missed it. I certainly missed the signs, which is on me. But she never once sat me down and said "Mike, this is what I need from you". Instead, she acted and reacted in the same manner as your wife does to you.

Heroclix? I had 1000's of dollars of Star Wars collectibles that I was told was not moving in with us. Gone. The running around and doing my bit around the house and with errands and chores? In spades, my friend. But it wasn't enough, or done properly. And if I took the occasional "lazy day"? Hoo-boy... Couldn't win with that one.

But you know what? 90% MY fault, not hers. No assertive behavior on my part. "Yes Dear" became a familiar sentence. Constantly seeking the elusive approval from her became my obsession, yet I never got there. And the whole time, I thought I was doing it right. I thought I was the perfect husband. What woman wouldn't want a guy who catered to her every need and followed her every command? Most of them, that's who.

Now, I am STILL learning with my current wife, 6 years in. I am not at all the man I was before, yet I still slide into that old familiar territory occasionally. I'm a do-er and a helper, and I LIKE doing things for people, I like making life easier for those I love. But I have to remind myself to think of ME every now and again - something I'm getting better at.

You wouldn't believe the reaction (and rewards!) I get from my wife when I show some assertiveness. It's still a struggle, as it doesn't come naturally to me, but when I am conscious of it, my wife responds positively.

I know it sounds like basic advice, and can even seem somewhat daunting, but put your foot down from time to time. Balance the amount of things you do with your wife in mind. Don't stop doing things for her, but always speak up when you disagree (like with the Heroclix), don't be afraid to say "no" and back it up, and stick to it.

Neither person in the relationship, man or woman, should be calling the shots 100% of time, or even 80. It should be as close to 50/50 as humanly possible. REGARDLESS of how she acts - she truly does not want a husband who just says "Yes dear, did I do a good job dear? Did you see what I did while you were gone?" Especially when these things are just normal day-to-day errands or chores. Just do them, and do the ones you think are priorities, and do them YOUR way.

The wrong line of thinking cost me a marriage, which was no big loss, really, but all the same. Don't make the same mistake. Everybody wants a partner, not a slave.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Stop
I can't get that foreigner song out of my head...
It was 7th or eighth grade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr6KVNt-1Ek


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Roselyn said:


> You married a third world princess. I don't say this lightly as my mother was from the Philippines. She sees the poverty of the Philippines and should be grateful for the American way of life. You have spoilt her.
> 
> On the other hand, you act like a desperate husband - always wanting validation from her. Filipino men will not allow their wives to tell them to clean the house! In the Filipino mindset, you are wearing an apron and therefore, cannot be respected as the man of the house. You can share tasks as my parents did, but not be dictated nor expected upon to clean the house by yourself. You are reduced to a housekeeper.



This is interesting but I have many Filipino friends and associates and I find it a very matriarchal culture. I find the husbands to be extremely passive (whipped).


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> It sounds to me like you have your priorities messed up. Your wife doesn't feel you put her first and she doesn't respect you, because you are acting like a child, rather than a grown up man.
> One of your main priorities should be to protect your wife from danger, yet there was ice on her path to the door. That should have been the first thing on your mind.
> When she got in from a long day, why on earth would you call and ask her what to do about dinner? I can see why she was irritated. I would be too. If you cannot figure out how to make dinner without her help, that is a problem, especially since you were already not taking care of your priorities.
> You make a list of what you did do, but that doesn't matter if you didn't do the basic things that a responsible adult would do, like making sure the house is clean, your wife doesn't bash her head on the sidewalk, and she has something to eat when she gets home.
> ...


:iagree:

I was going to write this but no need because there it is.

Listen with all you are doing, and its not that much, you are doing just enough to get by and keep out of trouble.

This is your real problem, unfortunately she is approaching it wrong (typical) and is begrudgingly acting like your Mom. There is the primary respect killer!

You are not acting like a man, grow the hell up. 

Be a man and she will respect you, be a man and she will not be able to control or walk all over you.

The only person a man has to please and live up to is himself, do that and she will be very happy with you.

1. Be honest
2. Keep your word
3. Do the important things first! That's what "priority" means, it comes "before" other things.
4. Show proper importance for the things she needs you to do and be prompt, yes even before youtube, damn.
And don't forget to invest time in yourself, stay fit, rested (shut the f-ing computer off), eat right, be interesting.

There is a lot you are not telling us.

Your only hope is to really listen to her, hear her needs and act because its the right thing to do.

Dont chase, beg, or anything else. You are in a terrible catch 22, because now she is gong to think you are only changing for her and because of her being done with you, no respect for that and she will question if it is real and will last. She is now very likely implacable.

You have not been fulfilling your role, is that clear, that role is leadership, protector, provider, partner.

Before you try to follow any advice here, you need to move to a position of strength, because the two of you are not currently equals.

Sure if you are doing your part you can speak with confidence and influence.

No one gives that to a man, but you can throw it away.

Take an electronic break, work on being a partner.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I can't know..

Ice on the sidewalk...
Takeout instead of dinner..

This is all trivial stuff. And has nothing to do with protecting her.
As others have said...it's something deeper.

Stop guessing how to please her. You'll never win that battle.

Yes, take charge. It doesn't mean being a d(ck. it means you start being captain of the boat. And as captain, you listen to your first officer, take everything into consideration, and come up with the plan. And if someone doesn't like your decision...accept it without appeasing guilt. And if you end up being wrong..then own it, too.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

You spent the whole time she was away thinking about her and doing chores. Not to mention selling your hobby stuff (that she clearly resents) to please her.

A lotta guys would've done the basics but otherwise considered their wife's absence as a beer and sofa holiday,,, a quick tidy and a vacuum when they know she's on her plane. So long as you're not a total bum, well balanced wives don't mind that,, kind of expect it even.

By all means you can try 'manning up',, but I doubt you'll extract the entitled from that princess.

Best present you can buy her (and yourself) is a one-way ticket back to the Philippines.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> (she needs to approve of how the laundry is loaded and clothes are folded)


Wow. Control fah-reak. How is it being married to your mother? And I mean no disrespect. Please tell me you don't cave to how she wants the laundry done. If so, next time, tell her to do it herself.

This part of your story really rubbed me the wrong way. 

You need to dig your heels in and alpha up, my friend.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Another thing is time management. You suck at it. One doesn't wait until the day their spouse is arriving home to start cleaning the house & planning on what to cook.
> 
> You had plenty of time to fart around with your hobby & visit family, friends & fellow hobbyists but couldn't stop by store to buy something to cook for dinner. Not to mention the computer & stopping the cleaning to gaze at Youtube videos.
> 
> More to come with future revelations. Don't worry, your wife will get picked on, too.


Yes. I came home the other day, and my SO was full of stories about how he was going to have the laundry on and the dishes done by the time I got there, but couldn't because I was home *so early*.

I was 10 minutes earlier than expected.

Meanwhile he had spent the whole day "distracted by his computer" (aka watching porn and chatting up girls on Facebook.)


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The idea is for you to figure out what your moral values are and what is important to you in life. They aren't the same thing. You then live according to that standard.
You take care of your chores and live as a responsible adult. If she doesn't like how you do that laundry, tell her to do it herself. You do your laundry and she does hers. It's not that complicated. Obviously you should do a good job of whatever you are doing, but that doesn't mean her way is the best way.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

There is zero justifications for your wife to speak to you, and behave, in the way that she has. None. I could have not cleaned a stitch, and as wrong as that would be, my wife would never dream of treating me the way yours does. 

A spouse will treat you in whatever way you allow them to. You're running around wondering if you'd cooked her spaghetti or cleaned walkway would have saved you from days (weeks?) of passive aggressive bullsh!t, and threats to fly home to mommie?

No. The issue are a lot deeper than that. They're rooted in resentment, unmet expectations and a lopsided power structure. Some people in this thread have given you some great advice about being a push over, which you clearly are. Your wife treats you like crap because you invite her to. There is a way to deal with issues in a marriage that don't entail the kind of childish behavior you both display.

And next time she threatens to fly home? Offer to help pack her bags and buy her a nice bon voyage bouquet.

And what kind of person gets mad about being asked what they want for dinner? Seriously?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If you want to save the marriage, there is no point in getting angry back at your wife. Simply set some healthy boundaries. You do what a responsible man does. You own your life and don't take orders from your wife. You smile at her and behave like a loving, affectionate, self assured husband who is meeting his own personal responsibilities. 
It would be good to sit down with her and have a talk. Let her know that you realize you have had your priorities messed up. You are going to get them in order and live like a man of integrity. You will no longer be doing her laundry. You will do your own, the way you like to do it. You will do your share of the chores, the way you want them done, without criticism from her. If she doesn't like the way you do it, she should keep that to herself, just like you will keep it to yourself when you don't like the way she does it. You will from this moment on treat each other with love and respect and will seek to do what is right.
It is not good to be a people pleaser. It is right to have standards and stick to them, which includes treating people respectfully and loving your wife, but does not mean adjusting your standards to make her happy. Yes, married people do things to bring happiness to their spouses, but they don't live there lives walking on eggshells worried that they may somehow upset their spouse. Solve the underlying issues of not having your standards set and your priorities being messed up, let your wife know about this, so she won't be caught off guard and move on from there. If she still wants to leave, let her go.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks everyone,

I've been trying to spend more time with her and avoiding electronics except when it comes to trying to sell stuff and posting on these forums, and a few other important things.

Also, in regards to selling my stuff. I've actually taken a stand on this a long ago and told her I'll sell what I don't use/want, but I'm still keeping the Hobbies I like/plan on playing. I have 3 major games I've played in the past, MTG, Heroclix and 40k. I definitely don't have time to play them all, so I'm happy to sell at least one, if not two of them. 

Since we've been married, she's always seemed to HATE my games and hobbies. Mostly because she felt they took away some time from her. I personally think she was exaggerating a bit, but I'm there were times when I wasn't around when I should have been. However, in most cases, I would only go out and play once or twice a month and then spend the occasional evening looking up stuff online, trading, etc. She blames my games on everything, from me not being a capable father to my sexual performance. Here are some typical cards she plays...

If I tell her I want to spend time doing hobby stuff/not sell everything
- "Well, I gave up everything to come here" 
If it's a bedroom issue (like her lack of Sex drive) "I don't know if I'm ready to have a kid, because I think I'll be the only one taking care of it". 
or 
You're thinking too much about your games, which is why you can't stay hard or cum inside me"

I'm going to have to get more into that later, because our sex life sucks and it usually involves me pleasing her and then jerking myself off with her in the shower. It's not terrible, because I get really turn on pleasing her, but it's definitely not ideal. 


Anyways, I definitely want to stand up and be a man, it's just hard when it feels like every decision is the wrong one and if she doesn't like the way I'm doing something she'll push me out of the way and say "Just let me do it". Granted, I probably ask for her helping and "where is X item" or "Do we have Y" too often as well.

Lastly, I want to say that she's been offering/asking if I want to go out and play/hang with my friends a bit more recently, I'm not sure if this is a good thing (like she's trying to let me have more time doing fun stuff) or if it's because she's giving up on our relationship. Ironically, I haven't left the house to play or do anything recently with a few exceptions.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i just showed this thread to my wife. she asked:

"where are his balls?"


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TRy said:


> You work a job and she works a job, so you both bring home outside income. You also are responsible for taking care of the house and cooking, while she feels no obligation toward the housework other than to complain. I am guessing that she makes more money than you and does not respect you because of it.


My guess is more generally she blames their financial issues on him. I noted the hasty payment to a former landlord on top of selling his collection of gaming stuff. And, she was pissed off right after coming home from a business trip.

She seems very selfish. This would be a "the man takes care of his family" things. She sees finances as his problem; money is tight which is his failure. Him working on Valentine's Day (needing the OT) is a reminder of his failure - he could not afford to devote himself to her.

Clearly she sees him as not up to what she deserves. It looks like he works hard to take care of her; , so I presume she expects superior treatment. The question is why - is she a high achiever expecting an equal? Does she think she's so hot or so interesting she can do better?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Roselyn said:


> You married a third world princess. I don't say this lightly as my mother was from the Philippines. She sees the poverty of the Philippines and should be grateful for the American way of life.


That is a strong possibility I hadn't considered. My ex, while not a foreigner, grew up poor with neglectful parents, which greatly impacted her relationship expectations.

If this is happening, there are serious relationship implications. Is her level of relationship satisfaction always going to be driven by how much service she is receiving? Is she willing to be a true partner when times get tough?

A good counselor told me choosing a spouse always involves consideration of "how much do I like this person" and "what does this person bring to the table". You get someone who grew up lacking and they can over-prioritize the latter.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Yep been here done all this, then I read no more Mr nice guy and who's pulling your strings: a guide to breaking the cycle of manipulation.

Took some time, but I got fed up with having the life sucked out of me and missing who I used to be. She is in charge of filling voids in her life and creating her own happiness, it's NOT your job. 

After I read those two books, I got my balls and my life back and no longer concern myself if she throws a temper tantrum because I want to go work out. 

I refuse to put her on a pedestal or treat her like royalty. If she wants to leave, there's the door and no way do I put her needs above my own anymore. Women aren't attracted to doormats, if you expect no less than respect at all times, it ay take a while, but it will get easier. It's all up to you to take that jump, and letting the cards fall where they may.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

JukeboxHero said:


> If I tell her I want to spend time doing hobby stuff/not sell everything - "Well, I gave up everything to come here"
> If it's a bedroom issue (like her lack of Sex drive) "I don't know if I'm ready to have a kid, because I think I'll be the only one taking care of it". or You're thinking too much about your games, which is why you can't stay hard or cum inside me"
> 
> I'm going to have to get more into that later, because our sex life sucks and it usually involves me pleasing her and then jerking myself off with her in the shower. It's not terrible, because I get really turn on pleasing her, but it's definitely not ideal.


Your sex life is simply horrible. Who can maintain excitement in a sexual act when you are criticized and emasculated in your performance? You can't complete your sexual activity, but take care of yourself in the shower with her? This is simply sad.

You need to see a psychologist to improve your self-esteem and get your mindset in the right order. You need to be rid of this shrew. Do not have children with this woman. She is toxic to your well-being.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for your responses again. 

For all those who are saying "She's a Spoiled Princess" and "You're a pushover", can you provide examples of such from my story and I what I could've done differently to be "a man", "have balls" etc. 

I.e. I don't think it's unreasonable to hope your husband prepared a nice meal for you when you arrived. I also don't think I would be a doormat for trying to clean the house and prepare a meal, though because of my poor time management. I guess her being picky about not wanting "pizza" because she's had junk-food all week is a bit of a princess behavior, and perhaps me asking what she wanted was being a pushover. However, even she told me I should have made her something without waiting until the last minute to ask her.

Anyways, I'm going for a quick run with some alone time to think about this. I would love to hear examples of what I could/should do differently


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> Thanks for your responses again.
> 
> ...


I don't know....to me a big part of 'having balls' is being able to figure out what you could be doing better on your own, without having someone tell you. Show initiative, you know? But frankly, you should just be doing the same things that SHE does. Does she have nice homemade dinner on the table when YOU get home? That's what she expects when it's your turn. Does she sacrifice her own hobbies to devote her time to the household chores and spending time with you? Does she make sure that her fair share of chores are done before she watches TV or plays computer games? That's what she expects from you.

If the rules only apply to one of you, and it isn't her, that's the entitled Princess behaviour.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I will second those that say you need to be more assertive - like you, I'm the nice guy that doesn't want to make waves, and a couple of years ago my wife would be the type to fly off the handle over stupid stuff (not parking in the right spot, not cleaning up the way she wants, not being home when the kids were whiny, etc) and my way to cope was to apologize and try to do what needed to be done. All that got me was her behavior getting worse (it got to the point where I dreaded coming home from work because I know she'd be pissed off about something), 

Finally, I starting pushing back some - when she got on me because I was home late for a meeting and she couldn't go do what she wanted (which was BS, she was playing the martyr), I yelled back at her that I'm home and just go. Things got better. When she was leaving to go out of town and I was going to take the kids to the sitter, she was pissy and said something along the lines of how she needs to do everything. I told her to get out of here and I'll take the kids (which was the plan). She admitted later that she was over the line. 

Be assertive - don't be a jerk (easier said than done for me, which is why I'm hesitant to be assertive at times), but take the bull by the horns and don't let her get away with being unreasonable. If her complaint is legitimate, listen to her. If she's being unreasonable, then don't just take it - bite back at her and let her know that's not acceptable.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> For all those who are saying "She's a Spoiled Princess" and "You're a pushover", can you provide examples of such from my story and I what I could've done differently to be "a man", "have balls" etc.


You've provided the examples. Loads of them. It's no one thing,, it's the accumulation of them that indicates there's no pleasing her.

The pizza incident is particularly telling cuz it's all there in your post.

She gets off the plane and she's all "Don't worry about it." like it's no big deal. Then, no sooner is she in the door and she makes a big deal out of it.

How is that fair or reasonable?


If she's such a sweetie,, I wonder why you're here. For advice on how to be a better doormat? That's easy,,, just pander to her every whim. Don't expect that to please her much though. Once you're under a thumb they just keep on squishing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

she is one friggin life long sh!t test.

NMMNG, but I think you better read, reread and GET the message of MMSLP. this is an urgent recommendation.

you'll handle her tests with ease. she'll settle down and be a wife. she needs you to do this. some call it manning up. well... it is, dude.

your relationship is like dancing. once you lead, she will follow. otherwise shes on auto-pilot. all women are programmed to respond to her man. right now, she is. time for you to change into a better man. a real man. the real you. head to the gym and work out. get yourself buf. should take 3 months if you go 3-4 times a week. real workouts. free weights, not those machines for betas. dump the fat. all of it.

when you start reading MMSLP, you will instinctively disagree. that is the blue pill. your goal, Neo, is to take the red pill. your resistance is a lifetime of being taught to please the woman and place her on a pedestal. what you are experiencing is the result. 

sucks right? read MMSLP and learn EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong. you will rip her down from the pedestal. she will love it and you. she does not know it, but she hates the pedestal. ALL women do.

i am not joking. take the red pill and see things as they are. fight your indoctrination, Neo. wake up. you will have the best marriage around. trust me.

you will instantly understand this is not about pizza, chinese takeout or washing and cleaning... it never was, dude.

** oh, and please.. don't be so shallow to think that shes a sperm funnel. that would only let me know you need to actually read and comprehend the message.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I don't know....to me a big part of 'having balls' is being able to figure out what you could be doing better on your own, without having someone tell you. Show initiative, you know? But frankly, you should just be doing the same things that SHE does. Does she have nice homemade dinner on the table when YOU get home? That's what she expects when it's your turn. Does she sacrifice her own hobbies to devote her time to the household chores and spending time with you? Does she make sure that her fair share of chores are done before she watches TV or plays computer games? That's what she expects from you.
> 
> If the rules only apply to one of you, and it isn't her, that's the entitled Princess behaviour.



Well, for the most part, I feel the chores are pretty evenly distributed, but she may do a bit more sometimes. She usually does the cooking (because she's way better at it than me) and starts laundry, I typically help with the food prep and laundry, clean bathrooms and vacuum floors. Right now, I think one of her biggest pet peeves is that that sometimes she has to clean up after me because I don't put everything in it's proper place..that and turning off lights as soon as I leave the room.

Also, she did give up a pretty nice Lifestyle in the Philippines to come here. She's not overly fond of the US and she really misses her home country. She really only came here to be with me. 

I guess my confusion is this..

Let's say were going to bed, and she hands me the bottle on her Nightstand. 
"Baby, could you please fill up our water bottles" or "Fill up and turn on the humidifier" 
If I do these things, Am I a Pushover? If I am, what am I supposed to say? "No, do it yourself"? Or try to keep track of How much chores we've each done?

Honestly, I hope I'm not mis-representing her to think that she doesn't do anything and simply demands I bring her everything. 

I guess there's a fine line between being a pushover and man who doesn't mind helping/doing a few extra chores for his wife.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Sounds like this relationship is all about her. HER feelings, HER thoughts, HER desires, and she honestly does not give a $hit about yours or appreciate what you do for her. This kind of person can never be happy. You will never be able to please her because it is impossible. 

She is the biggest problem in this relationship. She expects you to mind-read incessantly and misleads you even when you do your best to figure out what she wants. With this kind of person, you always have to be wrong and everything has to be your fault. Period. This relationship will only suck you dry and break you down.

I'm sorry that you are suffering like this. You seem like a kind, considerate person and you deserve a lot better. I hope I'm wrong about her.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> Thanks for your responses again.
> 
> ...


People who have "balls" don't even have this conversation.

You don't sit around trying to find the right combo of words and actions that might save you from your wife acting rude, entitled and disrespectful.

I adore my wife, but she'd never talk to me that way. Why? Because I'd never allow it. Period. If you want to be in relationship with me I expect a basic level of respect and civility. No matter what dinner was, or wasn't on the table, if the house was cleaned, or not, regardless, respect is expected.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> If you want to save the marriage, there is no point in getting angry back at your wife. Simply set some healthy boundaries. You do what a responsible man does. You own your life and don't take orders from your wife. You smile at her and behave like a loving, affectionate, self assured husband who is meeting his own personal responsibilities.
> It would be good to sit down with her and have a talk. Let her know that you realize you have had your priorities messed up. You are going to get them in order and live like a man of integrity. You will no longer be doing her laundry. You will do your own, the way you like to do it. You will do your share of the chores, the way you want them done, without criticism from her. If she doesn't like the way you do it, she should keep that to herself, just like you will keep it to yourself when you don't like the way she does it. You will from this moment on treat each other with love and respect and will seek to do what is right.
> It is not good to be a people pleaser. It is right to have standards and stick to them, which includes treating people respectfully and loving your wife, but does not mean adjusting your standards to make her happy. Yes, married people do things to bring happiness to their spouses, but they don't live there lives walking on eggshells worried that they may somehow upset their spouse. Solve the underlying issues of not having your standards set and your priorities being messed up, let your wife know about this, so she won't be caught off guard and move on from there. If she still wants to leave, let her go.


:iagree::iagree:

OP - CD has hit every nail right on the head.

If you do nothing more, read this over and over until you completely "get it".

YOU matter. 

Boundaries (from both of you) are kind of like fences. You'd never put a horse in a pasure that didn't have fences, would you? Of course not. They wouldn't know where your property ended, and you couldn't be pizzed at them for crossing into the neighbor's pasture!

That might sound stupid, but you need for it NOT to....


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

jaquen said:


> People who have "balls" don't even have this conversation.
> 
> You don't sit around trying to find the right combo of words and actions that might save you from your wife acting rude, entitled and disrespectful.
> 
> I adore my wife, but she'd never talk to me that way. Why? Because I'd never allow it. Period. If you want to be in relationship with me I expect a basic level of respect and civility. No matter what dinner was, or wasn't on the table, if the house was cleaned, or not, regardless, *respect is expected*.


:iagree:

...and commanded.

not DEmanded, but commanded...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Well, for the most part, I feel the chores are pretty evenly distributed, but she may do a bit more sometimes. She usually does the cooking (because she's way better at it than me) and starts laundry, I typically help with the food prep and laundry, clean bathrooms and vacuum floors. Right now, I think one of her biggest pet peeves is that that sometimes she has to clean up after me because I don't put everything in it's proper place..that and turning off lights as soon as I leave the room.
> 
> Also, she did give up a pretty nice Lifestyle in the Philippines to come here. She's not overly fond of the US and she really misses her home country. She really only came here to be with me.
> 
> ...


these are super simple to answer - after you read the aforementioned book...

you desperately need to read it. it is readymade for you. it should be required reading for all men. married or single.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Also, in regards to selling my stuff. I've actually taken a stand on this a long ago and told her I'll sell what I don't use/want, but I'm still keeping the Hobbies I like/plan on playing. I have 3 major games I've played in the past, MTG, Heroclix and 40k. I definitely don't have time to play them all, so I'm happy to sell at least one, if not two of them.
> 
> Since we've been married, she's always seemed to HATE my games and hobbies. Mostly because she felt they took away some time from her. I personally think she was exaggerating a bit, but I'm there were times when I wasn't around when I should have been. However, in most cases, I would only go out and play once or twice a month and then spend the occasional evening looking up stuff online, trading, etc. She blames my games on everything, from me not being a capable father to my sexual performance. Here are some typical cards she plays...
> 
> ...


Dude.... dude...... your marriage is in SERIOUS trouble.

Holy cow....I can't believe what you just wrote. I think you have NO IDEA how bad things really are, or how to change things.

As a disclaimer, I will say it's been a long, long time since I've been to the Philippines, so things may be changed a bit. But I think I know the DNA of Philippine society. As with any society, there are many different types of people, some giving, some selfish, some humble, some entitled, so it's hard to generalize and say..."Filipino women are x" or "Filipino men are y". However, I think you can say some broad things about the society in which they live, which in turn, colors how you might interpret their behavior.

First of all, I think the sexual situation would typically be REALLY BAD coming from a Filipina. I think it is a VERY VERY bad sign about the health of your marriage.

The previous posters, I think, are both correct, in my experience. Filipino society is, by my way of seeing it, is a traditional society which has also tried to become very modern. So, in their core, Filipino women in general, in my experience, like more traditional, assertive men. That having been said, the Philippines also embraces strong women (they're have 2 women presidents, after all, and Imelda Marcos was a sort of governor of the Manila area). I would agree that the Philippines is kind of a matriarchal society in certain aspects. As I see it, there are areas in which the woman essentially reigns supreme--at home, for the most part--while still embracing traditional roles. I think it's kind of a Latin culture in that way, not surprising given their history.

To understand your wife, it would be helpful to know WHAT KIND of family she came from in the Philippines. Not just that she is from the Philippines, but what was her specific situation. Although the Philippines is a 3rd world country, the people are highly literate, for the most part, compared to other countries in a similar economic status, and the elite have high expectations. If her family is wealthy, she may have grown up with many maids/servants, as labor is very cheap. Filipina women in such situations often have an imperious "lady of the manor" type attitude, and may be used to bossing servants around. Guess who her servant is now? And you seem to be reinforcing it. Did she come from a wealthy family where she was the princess?

Although the Philippines is much more egalitarian in male/female roles, and women are common in the business world there, the traditional role for the man is to provide well for the family, NOT to be Suzy Homemaker. What is the economic situation in your marriage, and who is the big earner? 

I've got to say, I try to respect everyone's own hobbies and interests, but your focus on your games seems kind of juvenile to me (and I'm not trying to be insulting, but just trying to give you honest feedback here). It may seem so to many Filipinas as well. It's not the sort of thing traditionally grown Filipino men would do. Maybe her urging you to go out with your friends is a way to get you to be more "gender/age role-appropriate", in her eyes. How old are you two? How long have you been married? Going out drinking with other men may be seen as more manly to her. It also is a kind of networking; and in the Philippines, your connections mean EVERYTHING (or at least it used to). Entire sectors of the economy are controlled by close networks of families. So, do you think it was a random statement that she connected your sexual performance with your game-playing? Or maybe you are a game-playing boy who can't get the job done? (Not trying to insult you, just following the line of thought).

Filipino society is also kind of materialistic, in a superficial sort of way. There's a tendency toward a lot of conspicuous consumption, and a kind of "showiness". (There is a Filipino word, "palabas", which describes it). Are you providing her with the sort of lifestyle that is compatible with that tendency? Did she come from that sort of lifestyle in the Philippines?

So, in summary, looking at the interactions you describe, you are DEEP in trouble. This marriage didn't blow up on Valentine's day, or even when your wife came back from her trip. This has been a long time in the making, from severely unmet expectations from you as a husband and a man. And I think a lot of those expectations could come from her background.

It is possible that if you understood her background, you might know what she wants from a husband. Then you can decide if that's what you want to be. But I don't think she wants a maid or housekeeper, if she's like most Filipinas. 

Now, all the above assumes she's fairly rational and can be dealt with. If she's just an unreconstructed Narcissist, then you'd better cut and run NOW. There's no dealing with her then. But, if she's a reasonable person who's just a product of her environment, then you need to change your roles IF you want to stay in the marriage. For example, next time if she doesn't like how you fold the towels as says it's just easier if she does it, then GREAT! That's her job from now on. You don't do it any more, and tell her so. You will do more manly things instead---and not playing your games. You'd better be living, eating and breathing ways to make money and provide for the family. If your time is occupied by those kind of activities, I think she'd gladly do more of the traditional woman roles. Now remember, Filipinos are more egalitarian than other societies, so if she's still working, you're not going to be sitting around watching TV/playing video games while she does housework. You've got to pull your weight in the family as well; but if you do it in more traditional male ways, you'll get more respect, I think. Especially if those activities mean she'll be able to have the money to hire maids.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

just a side note: when you ask her right before she got home what to do for dinner, and she said "don't worry about it" - I think she said it because she could not even believe you are asking her this. Like a child. She is not even home yet and has to worry about dinner. and things went sour from there. 

If the dynamic of your relationship is mother/child, that's not good for neither one of you. She might simply be tired of being the one responsible for everything.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

From what I read on the first page of posts, having been through something similar, I would rule out whether she is talking to someone else. Maybe not a PA, but I'd guess she is at least talking.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks Wolfman1968 and WandaJ,

I think you understand her very well. She came from a middle-class family in the Philippines. They have a small house, but they're able to have nice things from time to time. She did have maids when she was younger, but I don't think she would qualify as an "rich, Spoiled, girl". You're also right that she considers my gaming hobbies to be juvenile, and to an extent, I think she's right. Sometimes they do provide a distraction and may prevent me from pushing myself to fullest potential. I think that's how she saw them, but eventually, over the course of 3 years, she gave up on trying to change me or my interests. Initially, I believe she wanted to push me to "grow up" and be a great husband/Father and help her plan for her Family/our Future. I'm not saying I didn't want to do that, but I was the kinda guy who was more "in the present" and I certainly wanted to own a nice house and have a family, but I also didn't want to sell off/stop playing my games.

Her and her family are very humble, kind and wonderful they have good morale values, but they're also meticulous (aka OCD) with the way they like things done and very thorough when it comes to cleaning. Me? Not so much. 

Also, she does make more than me annually overall and with my student loan debts on top of my lower income, she does end up paying a bit more than 50% of the bills. She also likes to have nice things (like you were mentioning) like Coach purses (on sale, of course) and a nice new car. However, of all things, I know her family and personal relationships come first. 

One of the things that was GREAT about our relationship is I got along really well with her family and supported her when it came to shipping "Balikbayan" boxes of goodies back home. She belives very much in supporting and repaying her parents and Aunties. In fact, her father is one of the coolest guys I know and we get along very well. 

Lastly, she does like to keep personal things private, especially our marital status. She doesn't even tell her family about our personal problems. 

Last night, she suddenly got really upset and left the house, telling she was going for a drive/to get some air. AFter she left, I realized she was on my ipad and and I had left this page open on my screen. When she came back, I asked her why she suddenly got upset and told her we needed to communicate.

She responded saying "You're the one who's not communicating" and then revealed she had found THIS post and was of course upset I had revealed this info about our relationship. Saying "They don't know me" and "This should be between us, my parent's don't even know" and how it was only one side of the story. Most importantly, she felt I voilated/broke her trust.

I told her that I did this because I wanted to help our marriage and be a better husband and I tried to respresent both sides of the story. 
She didnt' seem convinced and went to sleep on the couch downstairs and I'm getting silent treatment of course.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

More manipulative/control behaviour to make you feel bad. 

It's not like you posted her picture and real name so we could point her out in the streets and go, "Oh look. It's the princess!"

Drama mountain from a next-to-nothing molehill.

You were/are looking to improve things by posting,, but she CHOOSES to see it as a betrayal.

Apart from you, nobody knows who Mrs. Jukeboxhero is. Hardly a betrayal that warrants cold shoulder treatment,, or even a bad attitude.

Emotional manipulation,, plain n simple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BronzeTorpedo (Dec 17, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> For all those who are saying "She's a Spoiled Princess" and "You're a pushover", can you provide examples of such from my story and I what I could've done differently to be "a man", "have balls" etc.


I agree with the other poster who recommends that you need to read the Married Man Sex Life Primer and start changing your behaviors ASAP. I agree that "be a man" isn't very helpful advice when it doesn't come naturally to you.

One example is dinner. Instead of calling her about dinner, just handle it. You tried to get her opinion because you were worried about failing. You need to change your attitude from the point where dinner is an opportunity to fail to the point where it's just dinner. Seriously, just pick anything. You know what she likes and what she doesn't. Make a list of 5 dinners she likes and pick one at random. When she gets home, that's the dinner you have ready. If she complains that she didn't want that dinner, which it sounds like she will, just shrug and point her toward the fridge while you dig in.

The cleaning isn't as clear. If your place was generally neat and tidy, then you did your job. If she walked in the door and gave it the white glove test, or started complaining because a light was left on somewhere, just shrug it off. If you left the place a mess, then apologize and clean it up to reasonable standards. But only apologize once. Don't allow her to use it as an excuse to berate you for months. Tell her that, if she has such strong opinions on cleaning and hates the way you do it, you will allow her to do all the cleaning from now on. She might just back off at that point.

There is a saying that you should take to heart. Fake it 'till you make it. You can't turn into an assertive, mature man overnight. But picking a few things where you can anticipate a conflict and having a strategy for dealing with them will help you rewire your brain to become more assertive and mature. Eventually, you won't even need to calculate anymore. You'll just be a better man.

Oh, and don't even think about having a child with this woman until you're both entirely happy with your marriage. The added stress will only destroy your marriage.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

read MMSLP. I am not gonna cliff note it to you or read it to you for a bedtime story

if you have no drive to read it, understand it and execute a MAP to improve your marriage, Ill leave the thread like she will leave your marriage...

wake up time dude. maturity beckons.


btw, if you have a deep understanding of her country history, geo-political events, culture, religious beliefs, customs and way of life, family traditions... and your own and its dynamics, I really don't understand why you have issues. if you have no clue, you are most certainly lost. cultures around the world differ. I dont know her specific background what town she lived in, how you met... and absolutely none of your background. 

just because a person speaks english does not mean they have western values. again i don't know yours either. the types of questions and issues you bring up, I'm willing to bet you have not the slightest clue.

hope im wrong, and apologies in advance. but, i think you have a lot to learn before its way too late.

welcome to reality. get reading tonight.

** how do I know all this nonsense??? i've lived internationally for way too many years. been there done that.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

To me, marriage is about compromise.

She's not willing to....and when she says she gave up "everything" to be with you means she is very unhappy with you & the marriage.

So stop trying to make her happy because you cannot. Hopefully, marriage counseling can help this situation. No matter what you do or how hard you try, it will never be enough for her.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Emerald said:


> To me, marriage is about compromise.
> 
> She's not willing to....and when she says she gave up "everything" to be with you means she is very unhappy with you & the marriage.
> 
> So stop trying to make her happy because you cannot. Hopefully, marriage counseling can help this situation. No matter what you do or how hard you try, it will never be enough for her.


well, stop being her beta. your attempts to make her happy would probably drive anyone nuts. that is what she is so unhappy about.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> Thanks for your responses again.
> 
> ...


Example of having balls:

You make spaghetti. You don't ask her. You're a grown up who wanted spaghetti and factored in the interests of others. You don't need her approval, because you don't fear her rejection of what you made (if she gets pissy about it, that ingratitude would be on her). You don't wait till the last minute, so you don't have to make excuses as to why you couldn't get everything you need to make it, and need to fall back on take out.

Having balls is about handling your sh*t and allowing her to handle hers (rather than trying to avoid her judgment). It's about being an assertive grown up.

She can tell when you waited to the last minute. She can tell when you're ducking accepting responsibility for doing so, and you get no points for alternatives to proper time management like "take out".

She wants you to prioritize better and be more thoughtfully autonomous. More manly.


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## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE (Mar 13, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> Going to respond to a couple of posts.
> 
> 
> @DvIsAdv, OLDMARRIED
> ...



Jukeboxhero - When I said be a man son it takes a lot more than being assertive. You have to stand up and take charge of your life too. Put down those silly video games that you keep talking about and realize that the price you pay is giving up your manhood by not focusing on what needs to get done. You married her. Quit whining about what you have and haven't done. She sounds like she has the potential to be a really good wife. Good Lord! You have a wife. Play with her and your sex life will improve. Be the guy that she wants to be with and she will let you lead. I promise. It takes time but show her you can be a man. I went back and read your birthday post. Quit trying to ask her permission and just do it. You may screw up, but she will appreciate that more than your constant under confidence. You get used to leading and you will see what I mean. You really need some body from the old school to teach you how to get there. I was lucky had a great Dad. He taught me how to be who I am.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

and read the book!!!!! NOW !


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

So, I wanted to give you some updates.

First, I never mentioned this before. I'm 37, she's 32, We've been married 3+ years. Also, we met online when I was in my early 30's and chatted via Skype for a few years. She visited me for a few months, I visited her for a few weeks in PH. Eventually, we decided to get married and we started the Visa Process.

I take that back, She pretty did most of the Visa process, which was a lot of forms, paperwork and pain in da azz stuff. I did what I needed to do, like filling out my half, getting documents I needed and only I could get. 

And speaking of that, in taking some time to reflect on myself, what I can do to improve, and what our past marriage has been like, I've had a few frickin' glaringly obvious revelations!

Our whole Marriage/Life together has been mostly her taking the lead, or initiating change in some way. When she first moved in with me, I was in my friend's basement because I almost got shot at my previous location in the ghetto (I was literally shaken awake by two thugs and woke up to a gun pointed at my face). She hated living under my friend's roof because they both like to be in charge (like 2 alpha dogs in the same pack).

Ever since then, she's been the one trying to progress our life and relationship. She did most of the apartment searching, decided when/what we going to buy to furnish it, motivated me to find a better job, decided we needed better cars (I've always been happy driving beaters), found herself a job, signed us up for doctor's appointments, pays the bills, increased my student loan payments--EVERYTHING!!!! I helped when she asked and I pitched in here and there, helped make decisions on what to get and how much to spend, but more or less, I've just been along for the ride.

GUDDAMMIT! I'm actually pretty mad at myself for not being the FRICKING Leader, Protector-type Husband I should have been! No wonder she was always yelling at me to get off my phone or computer and think about our future. It makes sense why gets upset so easily and criticizes almost everything I do. I now realize she's been SO right in so many ways and things she's been telling me over the past few years. I honestly think I'm pretty lucky that she hadn't left me already and has been patient with me this whole time. I think it's been a terrible Catch 22 set up by both of our behaviors. 

And yeah, the Parent-Child thing is a pretty good description of our relationship.

Wow, guys, this has been a mind-blowing, mental journey of discover for me the past couple of days. 

BTW, another update. My wife saw this post as I mentioned before, she was a bit upset and thought it wasn't a fair representation of her. 
The next day, she texted me saying: "Perhaps they're right, maybe I'm a spoiled princess and I don't have respect for you, makes you feel like crap, etc. She also mentioned that perhaps we need some space since this isn't working and we're just hurting each other.

Since then, I've spent a lot of time alone and I really feel motivated to make positive changes in MY life. Be a better man for myself and her, and anyone I meet in the future. 

Therefore, I'm going to start a new thread about some positive changes/goals that I'm going to try and achieve in the following weeks and months.

EDIT: Btw, I have to say this. I haven't played Video games in a long time. Most of the games I'm referring to now our collectible, strategy type games like Magic: the gathering and miniature games like Warhammer 40k. I still waste time on my computer though, and the context of having a distraction is still the same, I'm sure. But dammit, if I'm not going to make some changes around here.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds like you are on the road to creating a better relationship Juke. One thing you, and especially your wife I think, need to do is stop thinking that working on the marriage is optional, that you can just give up and throw in the towel over a few teething problems. You both made a lifelong commitment. One thing you both need to give eachother is the guarantee that you have what it takes to always be there, even when it's hard. A quitter will find unhappiness in every relationship eventually because they don't have what it takes to get through it, and every relationship will have periods of unhappiness. No marriage will be perfect. It takes a lot of work to learn to work together. You're really still at the start of it. I've been married 10yrs and we're still dealing with problems, probably always will be, but I'd take my marriage over one where spouses are cheating, lying to and even physically hurting eachother. There are so many worse problems you could be having in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you are both intelligent enough to reflect upon your own contribution to your problems is a huge benefit to your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Please post a link to your new thread.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Anyone notice that not only can these couples not get along, the commenters have dramatically different takes, usually divided on gender lines. 

So you get women writing, her comments indicate some frustration. Why weren't these the basic things done the way she expected, "One of your main priorities should be to protect your wife from danger, yet there was ice on her path to the door. That should have been the first thing on your mind.
When she got in from a long day, why on earth would you call and ask her what to do about dinner? I can see why she was irritated. "you need to understand what is bothering her, you two could benefit from counseling, try to understand what she is feeling, perhaps she is overwhelmed with work, family. Read books like How to Address her Needs, Better Communication among couples, the stresses of the modern day wife, the 14 hour day and the working woman. 

And then from men, she's treats you like garbage and you enable that treatment by constantly try to cater to her dominant behavior and irrationality, "your wife is very controlling," "you spent the whole time she was away thinking about her and doing chores" "your wife doesn't ... doesn't respect you, because you are acting like a child, rather than a grown up man." "take charge, ... start being captain of the boat. Read Why being a doormat makes you unattractive, the 180 degree turn around, how being assertive as a man can improve your marriage, why the Alpha Man is so attractive to women, why women reject weak men, why your passivity makes her available for an affair. 

P.S. To Cynthia D, if a man came home from a trip and his wife said I can cook you what you'd like if you wait a few minutes, and he said, that's completely unacceptable, as my wife, you should have dinner ready when I got home, how would the feminists see that.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Our whole Marriage/Life together has been mostly her taking the lead, or initiating change in some way. When she first moved in with me, I was in my friend's basement because I almost got shot at my previous location in the ghetto (I was literally shaken awake by two thugs and woke up to a gun pointed at my face). She hated living under my friend's roof because they both like to be in charge (like 2 alpha dogs in the same pack).
> 
> Ever since then, she's been the one trying to progress our life and relationship. She did most of the apartment searching, decided when/what we going to buy to furnish it, motivated me to find a better job, decided we needed better cars (I've always been happy driving beaters), found herself a job, signed us up for doctor's appointments, pays the bills, increased my student loan payments--EVERYTHING!!!! I helped when she asked and I pitched in here and there, helped make decisions on what to get and how much to spend, but more or less, I've just been along for the ride.


This sounds to me like a classic wife led marriage. Don't listen to people who try to tell you there is anything wrong with that.



> GUDDAMMIT! I'm actually pretty mad at myself for not being the FRICKING Leader, Protector-type Husband I should have been! No wonder she was always yelling at me to get off my phone or computer and think about our future. It makes sense why gets upset so easily and criticizes almost everything I do. I now realize she's been SO right in so many ways and things she's been telling me over the past few years. I honestly think I'm pretty lucky that she hadn't left me already and has been patient with me this whole time. I think it's been a terrible Catch 22 set up by both of our behaviors.


This is, though, obviously not a healthy wife led marriage and there is much you could both do to improve it. It sounds like you recognize what you need to do on your end.

However, I think you are deluding yourself if you think you can become the leader in your marriage. Competing with her for leadership is going to just increase the level of conflict until one of you decides to get a divorce.

Instead, you should think about how you could work to improve your relationship with your wife so that it becomes more pleasant and productive to let her lead it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Green card fraud?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> P.S. To Cynthia D, if a man came home from a trip and his wife said I can cook you what you'd like if you wait a few minutes, and he said, that's completely unacceptable, as my wife, you should have dinner ready when I got home, how would the feminists see that.


I wouldn't do that. Maybe it's because we always have trouble figuring out what we are going to eat. If I ask my husband what he wants to eat, he can't think of anything and neither can I. If he was on a business trip and I called to ask him what he wanted to eat, he would be confused and wonder why I was asking him.
I am a non-wage earner. I stay home, homeschool, and write. My mother lives with us. Mom cooks once a week. My husband or the kids cook once a week. I cook the remaining 5 days. I hate it when my mom or my husband ask me what to make. That is half the battle for me. So when I am out of town, I do not want to get a phone call from someone asking me what to cook. It's not my day to cook, so why are you asking me! Maybe I should have to standard meals that I ask for:
Barbecued rib eye steak, fried potatoes, green salad.
Baked salmon, grilled asparagus, and vegetable kabobs. 
But then they would ask, "Do we have that in the freezer?" lol
I plan the meals I cook. I do not want someone asking me to plan their meals as well.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ladymisato said:


> However, I think you are deluding yourself if you think you can become the leader in your marriage. Competing with her for leadership is going to just increase the level of conflict until one of you decides to get a divorce.


he doesnt have to compete with her, he just has to lead himself. it seems to me like his wife doesnt really want to do any of the leading anyway.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Your wife, from your description of V-day, sounds like a total malcontent. I don't think you can make this woman happy no matter what you do. Good luck in putting up with her nasty attitude.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> he doesnt have to compete with her, he just has to lead himself. it seems to me like his wife doesnt really want to do any of the leading anyway.


We're speculating now on how his wife would respond if he were more responsible as he seems now to recognize he should be. That is obviously a good idea whether or not he is the leader or follower in the marriage.

However, based on what I've read in this thread, I've come to a different conclusion than you. My impression is that whether by circumstances or temperament, this wife is going to be the head of the household. If he is more responsible then she will feel less frustrated with him and they will have a happier marriage.

It is simply unrealistic to think that they can ever trade places. He needs to learn how to cope with a wife who is a harder driver than he is.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

thummper said:


> Your wife, from your description of V-day, sounds like a total malcontent. I don't think you can make this woman happy no matter what you do. Good luck in putting up with her nasty attitude.


With all due respect, I must disagree. His wife is obviously not contented with the status quo and she will probably always be more of a driver in the marriage than he but they can make a happy and successful marriage if they go about it right.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ladymisato said:


> We're speculating now on how his wife would respond if he were more responsible as he seems now to recognize he should be. That is obviously a good idea whether or not he is the leader or follower in the marriage.
> 
> However, based on what I've read in this thread, I've come to a different conclusion than you. My impression is that whether by circumstances or temperament, this wife is going to be the head of the household. If he is more responsible then she will feel less frustrated with him and they will have a happier marriage.
> 
> It is simply unrealistic to think that they can ever trade places. He needs to learn how to cope with a wife who is a harder driver than he is.


im not sure what you are disagreeing with. im not saying that he needs to rule the marriage, or try to. im saying he needs to rule himself. his wife is trying to assert dominance, but is not aware of what she really wants, or maybe how to get it. hence, she gets frustrated when he asks her what she wants to eat. after telling him that she does not care what he does for dinner. 

i understand that you believe that a wife led marriage is more stable, but i also believe that YOU know that a wife has to know how to lead a marriage in order for it to BE more stable. 

and i believe that she does not know how to lead a marriage. so, the best advice i can give OP is for him to lead himself.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> im not sure what you are disagreeing with. im not saying that he needs to rule the marriage, or try to. im saying he needs to rule himself. his wife is trying to assert dominance, but is not aware of what she really wants, or maybe how to get it. hence, she gets frustrated when he asks her what she wants to eat. after telling him that she does not care what he does for dinner.
> 
> i understand that you believe that a wife led marriage is more stable, but i also believe that YOU know that a wife has to know how to lead a marriage in order for it to BE more stable.
> 
> and i believe that she does not know how to lead a marriage. so, the best advice i can give OP is for him to lead himself.


Yes, I think we are agreed on all points. I guess mine was only a semantic quibble, that what he needs is to be responsible vs. what you called leading or ruling himself.

If his wife were here I could give her lots of great advice on how to be a much more loving and effective leader of their marriage.

It might be possible for him to move her in that direction by both being more responsible and acknowledging that her intentions are good even if her methods are not and that by improving her methods their marriage would be much happier.


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## Aeirum (Oct 5, 2012)

Read no more mister nice guy by Robert Glover



JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> A few weeks ago, I posted about how I upset my wife on her B-day and she called it "strike 2"
> 
> ...


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I think that creating some space in this marriage is a good thing. Your wife is maintaining a negative perception of you, which is why she rarely notices the positive things you have done...yet will flip out over petty trivialities. It is because her brain is locked in a mode of belief that you will somehow continue to "fail her" and she now can only see evidence that things won't get better.

They can get better, but I think it can only improve if 1)Distance is created, maybe even a trial separation, and 2) Behaviors are changes and respect is restored. Yes, you can attempt #2 while still being together, but sometimes having a break can interrupt her thought patterns long enough so the positive changes you make won't go unnoticed. So even if separating may not be feasible, then at least agreeing with each other to "do each our own thing" for a while COULD be beneficial. It may not be beneficial if she has been looking for other men. You said she is on phone/ipad all of the time...is she uber-protective of her privacy and passcodes?

Like some others, I am familiar a little bit with Filipino culture...and the only thing I can add is that they are very focused on cleanliness. You may call it OCD, but I think that may feel dismissive to someone who comes from a very clean culture. Yet, her attitude I feel has less to do with your cleanliness and more to do with resentment. If you would shore up some areas that would increase her respect (and that isn't by being a good boy, but by being a good leader, decision maker, provider, and no nonsense taker), then I think you will see a dramatic decrease in her concerns about how you cook or clean.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hello again Everyone,

So, I had a long serious talk last night with my wife. I listened without interupting to her point of view. This is how she feels.

From her mouth,
-"I've been so nice and so patient for so long, waiting for you to get your prioritites straight, grow up and be a man. I've sacrified my wants, always put you and our future first."

In this example, I think she feels I wasn't as mentally invested in our future as she was. Perhaps she was hoping I would take the lead, stop playing around with my hobbies and try to plan for our future. Also she has a very nice fully loaded 2014 Toy Camry, which she seemed to enjoy immensley for the first 6 months of owning it. Now she says she regrets not buying what she REALLY wanted, a 2 door sporty type car like a Scion or Mustang, because she had our future/kids in mind when she was purchasing it, but now she feels we'll NEVER have a family.

2. She also mentioned this wasn't just 1 incident, of me NOT having dinner ready for her, or not cleaning the house, but rather those are the final straws and I need to look at the bigger picture. She's just tired of waiting on me to change, and sacrificing things she wants, feeling she was the only one trying to plan for our future.

In regards to the recent incidents of her Her arrival home, B-day and Valentines day. 
She felt she wasn't important to me/I didn't care for her that much because I didn't manage to cook dinner and plan something for her B-day. She described that she didn't really want a lot on her B-day, she just wanted me to have plan for some kinda dinner/outing ON her ACTUAL B-day, not the day before. It was important to her because it was the actual day she was born. Even a simple dinner at Applebee's would've been fine, but she wanted me to WANT and plan to take her out, not for her to tell me. She feels I should've known this because we've discussed before how we don't like it when my family celebrates Christmas early/late.
Also, in regards to my overtime, she thought I was doing it to piss her off, get back at her or something... especially when I did it On Valentines Day/Her B-day.

Overall, it seems like she feels like giving up on the whole relationship/marriage because "Relationships are so complicated" and said she wishes she was just single again, living on beach somewhere, so she only had to worry about her own needs/priorities and focus on herself. It almost seems as if she feels she's the female version of a "nice guy".


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Translation: 
She's had it with you and if you don't man up she's leaving.

I really do not think your wife wants to push you around. She is at her wits end.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> So, I had a long serious talk last night with my wife. I listened without interupting to her point of view.


First of all, kudos to you for that alone. You'd be surprised how few spouses will do that in a marriage crisis. Please give yourself a firm pat on the back.

As to the specifics, I have yet to hear from you, here or previously, any demand from her that is unreasonable. We can criticize her style and perhaps her drama but from your own words, she genuinely wants what's best for the both of you.



> Overall, it seems like she feels like giving up on the whole relationship/marriage because "Relationships are so complicated" and said she wishes she was just single again, living on beach somewhere, so she only had to worry about her own needs/priorities and focus on herself. It almost seems as if she feels she's the female version of a "nice guy".


I hope that you will take her seriously on this point. It does sound like she is near some breaking point. Given that her expectations are reasonable you should do everything you can to demonstrate seriousness about her and the marriage. I am very confidence that if you make this effort that you can later go to work on her style and attitude and her sense of victimhood. But you have to make the first move here.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I am not saying that you should bow to your wife and be her subordinate. What I am saying is that your wife seems to have some valid points that you have verified. I don't think this is complicated. It is time for you to meet your responsibilities and stop seeking direction from your wife. She is not your mother. Get your priorities in order and do what is right. Then she will not feel like she is the one taking responsibility on her own and she won't freak out anymore.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> I am not saying that you should bow to your wife and be her subordinate.


He already is. That's just the natural consequence of her being more driven than he is.



> I What I am saying is that your wife seems to have some valid points that you have verified. I don't think this is complicated. It is time for you to meet your responsibilities and stop seeking direction from your wife.


On this we are totally agreed.



> She is not your mother. Get your priorities in order and do what is right. Then she will not feel like she is the one taking responsibility on her own and she won't freak out anymore.


This is perhaps unrealistic. It may simply be that along with having a higher drive she is more dramatic about his missteps. I believe he can temper this by being more responsible but she will need to change her approach and that will require an epiphany of her own.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> This is perhaps unrealistic. It may simply be that along with having a higher drive she is more dramatic about his missteps. I believe he can temper this by being more responsible but she will need to change her approach and that will require an epiphany of her own.


I don't think that's what going on here. I think she is tired of telling him what to do and the reason she is so extreme is that she is at the end of her rope.
Once you assess what your responsibilities and priorities are and stop seeking your wife's approval, but instead take the power in your life and use it to be a responsible man who cares for himself and his wife, your wife will not feel so insecure and frantic.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't think that's what going on here. I think she is tired of telling him what to do and the reason she is so extreme is that she is at the end of her rope.
> Once you assess what your responsibilities and priorities are and stop seeking your wife's approval, but instead take the power in your life and use it to be a responsible man who cares for himself and his wife, your wife will not feel so insecure and frantic.


I think we agree on what is most important here, that he needs to be more responsible. One could even argue that he should be responsible for his own reasons and not because his wife is demanding it though I think that ignores the obvious fact that he is being pushed into this by her; he did not come to this realization on his own. However, it's quite possible that she better understands what he needs to do to be more responsible and that by seeking her approval in this regard he will become more responsible and satiate her to some degree. Certainly there is no point in trying to defy her by being more responsible in some way that might cause her disapproval.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hello again Everyone,
> 
> So, I had a long serious talk last night with my wife. I listened without interupting to her point of view. This is how she feels.
> 
> ...


I think you need some clarification on this...exactly what has she sacrificed? Why did she feel you weren't emotionally invested, and did she really want you to stop your hobbies? Making assumptions isn't a good idea, and it helps when there's as little ambiguity as possible. 



> Also she has a very nice fully loaded 2014 Toy Camry, which she seemed to enjoy immensley for the first 6 months of owning it. Now she says she regrets not buying what she REALLY wanted, a 2 door sporty type car like a Scion or Mustang, because she had our future/kids in mind when she was purchasing it, but now she feels we'll NEVER have a family.


The never-having-a-family is a big issue that should be addressed. Why does she feel that way? Do you not want kids? Does she want kids? Have you talked about having kids?

The car thing is...well, imo, petty. I get that she now wants a sporty car if she can't have a family with you, but such is life. We don't always get what we want, and it's really ridiculous of her to complain about having _a nearly brand new car_. Besides, it's not like she can't _ever_ have a sporty car. I'm sure she could trade hers in for one down the line. 



> 2. She also mentioned this wasn't just 1 incident, of me NOT having dinner ready for her, or not cleaning the house, but rather those are the final straws and I need to look at the bigger picture. She's just tired of waiting on me to change, and sacrificing things she wants, feeling she was the only one trying to plan for our future.


Is there truth to this? 



> In regards to the recent incidents of her Her arrival home, B-day and Valentines day.
> She felt she wasn't important to me/I didn't care for her that much because I didn't manage to cook dinner and plan something for her B-day. She described that she didn't really want a lot on her B-day, she just wanted me to have plan for some kinda dinner/outing ON her ACTUAL B-day, not the day before. It was important to her because it was the actual day she was born. Even a simple dinner at Applebee's would've been fine, but she wanted me to WANT and plan to take her out, not for her to tell me.


This I relate to. It's NOT FUN to have to plan your own birthday outing, and as her spouse, you really should have put forth more effort to having something prepared. I mean this is kind of Relationship 101 stuff. 



> She feels I should've known this because we've discussed before how we don't like it when my family celebrates Christmas early/late.
> Also, in regards to my overtime, she thought I was doing it to piss her off, get back at her or something... especially when I did it On Valentines Day/Her B-day.


I can see where she's coming from. If your overtime wasn't mandated, and you had a choice of when to do it, you really should have done it another time. Choosing to do it on those days makes it look like you couldn't care less about spending time with your wife. 



> Overall, it seems like she feels like giving up on the whole relationship/marriage because "Relationships are so complicated" and said she wishes she was just single again, living on beach somewhere, so she only had to worry about her own needs/priorities and focus on herself. It almost seems as if she feels she's the female version of a "nice guy".


It sounds like she's just tired of your relationship.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Yes, he has been alerted to the problem, because his wife is at the end of her rope, but I don't think anything is sustainable if it's being done for someone else. Maturity is something that one does as part of a mindset of growth for one's own personal well-being. That will impact every part of life and relationships for good. In this case, I hope it's not too late to save the marriage.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> Yes, he has been alerted to the problem, because his wife is at the end of her rope, but I don't think anything is sustainable if it's being done for someone else.


I guess I just don't understand your position here. I think she's begging for him to demonstrate he cares about her (e.g. the birthday) and what is important to her (e.g. having a family). I think he could make a lot of progress doing things for her.



> Maturity is something that one does as part of a mindset of growth for one's own personal well-being. That will impact every part of life and relationships for good. In this case, I hope it's not too late to save the marriage.


Of course, even if she left him he needs to be more responsible for his own reasons. And being more responsible, in general, will have many benefits in the marriage, perhaps even save it.

Still, I can't let go of the fact that she is the one pushing him to become responsible.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> I guess I just don't understand your position here. I think she's begging for him to demonstrate he cares about her (e.g. the birthday) and what is important to her (e.g. having a family). I think he could make a lot of progress doing things for her.
> 
> 
> Of course, even if she left him he needs to be more responsible for his own reasons. And being more responsible, in general, will have many benefits in the marriage, perhaps even save it.
> ...


Part of being an adult is having balance in relationships where it's not all give or all take. If she doesn't feel that he is carrying his weight in the relationship by doing something on her birthday and so forth, that will be resolved with personal growth and taking responsibility for his part in the relationship. So, yes, you are right, he could make a lot of progress by doing things to show he cares, but he is confused about what those things are. He thought calling and asking her what he should make for dinner was one of those things, but it's not. She is telling him the kinds of things would be to do something for her birthday without having to ask her. Just be an adult and make a decision.
I don't think we disagree.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, you may want to brace yourself emotionally as much as it is humanly possible, but I think she's given up on you and on the marriage.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> Part of being an adult is having balance in relationships where it's not all give or all take. If she doesn't feel that he is carrying his weight in the relationship by doing something on her birthday and so forth, that will be resolved with personal growth and taking responsibility for his part in the relationship. So, yes, you are right, he could make a lot of progress by doing things to show he cares, but he is confused about what those things are. He thought calling and asking her what he should make for dinner was one of those things, but it's not. She is telling him the kinds of things would be to do something for her birthday without having to ask her. Just be an adult and make a decision.
> I don't think we disagree.


I think we mostly agree but let me offer an analogy that will perhaps clarify my own thinking: Suppose he were neglecting his teeth. His wife might tell him he needs to brush his teeth and get upset with him when he doesn't. Of course, he should brush his teeth because it is good for him regardless of her. But maybe he doesn't appreciate the importance of it or is forgetful or never learned how. He would be doing well, in that case, to follow her directions and even, perhaps, to think of doing it as a favor to her (which it would be in terms of long-term medical costs not to mention immediate intimacy). 

Do what your wife says would, in this case, be perfectly good advice from us, especially if there were a long list of such examples and no contrary unreasonable demands.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> I think you need some clarification on this...exactly what has she sacrificed? Why did she feel you weren't emotionally invested, and did she really want you to stop your hobbies? Making assumptions isn't a good idea, and it helps when there's as little ambiguity as possible.


Aside from the initial sacrifice to give up her lifestyle, friends and family in PH, I'm not sure what she's sacrificed. I'm not sure why she felt I wasn't emotionally invested before, perhaps because, In the past, if we're both looking at stuff on our Ipads, I would be looking at something related to games/hobbies/random junk and she would be looking at a house or apartment she might want to get 1-2 yrs from said date.

As far as why she wants me to get rid of my hobbies, I think it's 2 reasons.
1. She thinks they take too much time/attention/thoughts away from her. Sometimes she's probably right, other times I would do them while she was watching one of her shows on TV which I wasn't really interested in. Or because I'd go out on the occasional Friday night and stay out late.
2. She thinks they're juvenile/for children, despite the fact the most of the players are men my age (and sometimes their GF's too). IN fact, some of the guys play more than I do and have kids etc. I think she wants me to have "normal", manly hobbies like cars, sports, etc. 




Created2Write said:


> The never-having-a-family is a big issue that should be addressed. Why does she feel that way? Do you not want kids? Does she want kids? Have you talked about having kids?


I don't think we can have kids due to a sexual dysfunction on my behalf. She's also afraid I won't be responsible or help her raise the kid because I'll be too into my games. I'm pretty certain if I became a father, all my games/hobbies would be into the closet for a long time. I think she's also afraid her body can't handle it (because she's small/petite) and afraid of the additional cost and responsibility. Right now, she doesn't want to hug me or have sex with me, so I'm pretty certain kids are in the distant future, if ever (and she's given up on us ever being able to have them)



Created2Write said:


> The car thing is...well, imo, petty. I get that she now wants a sporty car if she can't have a family with you, but such is life. We don't always get what we want, and it's really ridiculous of her to complain about having _a nearly brand new car_. Besides, it's not like she can't _ever_ have a sporty car. I'm sure she could trade hers in for one down the line.


It's totally petty and BS. She bought it in 2014 and nothing has changed as far as us having kids. We've been having troubles/debates on this long before she wanted a car. Also, we bought a Rav4 the year before for "our family" so we already have a family-type car. Also, when we have the money, she gets nice things like Coach Purses (on sale of course), Doc Martin shoes, a Paddleboard, stuff to send home to her family. I'm still not sure about the sacrifice. Maybe it's emotional or some intangible sacrifice.



Created2Write said:


> Is there truth to this?
> 
> 
> 
> This I relate to. It's NOT FUN to have to plan your own birthday outing, and as her spouse, you really should have put forth more effort to having something prepared. I mean this is kind of Relationship 101 stuff.


Keep in mind, I bought her a gift, went out with her and my parents for a nice, sushi dinner and made her a snow cake with real candles. But it didn't count because it happened the day before her B-day. 



Created2Write said:


> I can see where she's coming from. If your overtime wasn't mandated, and you had a choice of when to do it, you really should have done it another time. Choosing to do it on those days makes it look like you couldn't care less about spending time with your wife.
> 
> It sounds like she's just tired of your relationship.


Yeah, I definitely screwed up the Valentines Day thing by working overtime. At the beginning of this thread you can see the details of that.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Overall, it seems like she feels like giving up on the whole relationship/marriage because "Relationships are so complicated" and said she wishes she was just single again, living on beach somewhere, so she only had to worry about her own needs/priorities and focus on herself. It almost seems as if she feels she's the female version of a "nice guy".


She sounds like she's just so over it all, and you.

You should ask her what about your relationship and being with you she still cherishes and loves. Watch her responses and her body language very carefully...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

To be honest, I can relate to a lot how your wife feels, however, I realise I'm not perfect and that when I let myself focus on what DH *isn't* doing that fits my vision of a perfect partner that I'm completely forgetting what he *is* doing.

One thing that can become a huge barrier to one spouse stepping up is the other holding them down. DH has told me in the past that while I want him to step up and take control sometimes, I actively stop him from making decisions. In my head it feels like I'm just filling the void, doing what has to be done, but DH feels like I'm stopping him. He says, 'let's do this' and I say, 'no, I want to do that', so he just steps back and let's me have things my way. It's very difficult to let someone else have it their way for some people. I think your wife might be one of those people. What she sees as her sacrificing herself is her doing what she wants but when she doesn't like the results, blaming you.

How do you deal with someone who fights giving you any control in the relationship, hates that you won't *take* control, and doesn't like anyone else making decisions for them? With great difficulty! Lol. One thing that won't help though is doing nothing, or backing off even further. Don't accept her unfair views as okay (such as the birthday celebration and the car, she's being a complete child about those things), but be fair to her when she has valid complaints.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

^ This.

I'm a mostly take charge guy and I still managed to get boxed up and sort of dethroned by my ex. 

In MC, one of the things that she was most angry about was how much effort and creativity I had put into an affair. What appeared to be elaborate dates, plans and new experiences. She wanted to know why I hadn't been doing that for her. What she didn't realize, was that I had been - but as our relationship went on, I was getting overruled. My loose ideas for us, would get shoved aside for a whole family things or specific plans. When I had complained about the lack of one on one time, she'd say she felt guilty about leaving the kids with a sitter or grandparents.

But what's more, I'm often spontaneous. My plans are loosely defined ideas and options... and then I go with the flow. I think well on my feet and roll the dice. So often this is a recipe for magic. I don't want to know how my whole vacation or date night will go. I want to discover. It's not set in stone, it's a living thing.

She loved the free-flowing nature of our dates back when we were dating.... just like everyone else I've dated has. She thought I planned amazing dates. lol But there really wasn't a strict plan, just a loose framework. Over time, she'd realize this and I guess had some sort of anxiety about it... because she started planning every detail. We have dinner at X place at 6. We go to this other place at 7pm. We walk for 20 minutes. Then this, then that. It was so regimented. I mean, we'd go on vacation and she'd already have all the restaurants we're going to try picked out. She'd have all the sights picked out, how long we'll be there, the order and day in which we'll see them, when we have to leave to get to the next... etc. My vacations felt like work! There literally wasn't room for me anymore. When I do things, I'd have several possibilities in mind, but the opportunity in front of me usually gets priority. Hey, what's that? ... and chance takes over. I don't know where it will go. It usually goes to pretty amazing places, even if you never get to see some of the sights you had in mind. The overall experience is more enjoyable.

I told her she can't blame me for a lack of creativity when she sabotaged what it takes to be creative. Creativity takes chances, does new things, and lives in the moment. If you want to know exactly what's going to happen on our date, then you don't want a date with me. At any moment, my plans change based on what I'm feeling and what I see.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

ladymisato said:


> First of all, kudos to you for that alone. You'd be surprised how few spouses will do that in a marriage crisis. Please give yourself a firm pat on the back.
> 
> As to the specifics, I have yet to hear from you, here or previously, any demand from her that is unreasonable. We can criticize her style and perhaps her drama but from your own words, she genuinely wants what's best for the both of you.
> 
> ...


Hey Misato,

Wanted to reply to this earlier. 
I can't think of a lot of requests she has had that have been unreasonable. At one point last year, before she bought her car and she basically wanted me to sell all my hobbies/gaming stuff, like 100% out the door. She also wanted to use that money to put towards a down payment on her car. I didn't really think that was fair. Sell all my stuff so you can buy a brand-new car (that you don't really need).

Also, she tends to be critical of things I do/say around my family. For instance, when we were shopping/bought for my car, I couldn't tell my friends about it for a few months. Later, when we were looking for her car, she got uncomfortable when I discussed it with my family. She also got uncomfortable when I mentioned we were going Black Friday shopping to get a new TV a few years ago.
I think her reasons for this was 
A. She thought a brother of one of my friends who owed me money would hear I bought a car and not pay me.
B. I guess she felt buying her car was a personal, financial matter, and for some reason she felt that her wanting to a buy a TV made her look Materialistic.


But this is all stuff from the past. I like to try to focus on the present situation. Thankfully, she hasn't been too critical of me in the past few weeks. In fact, I noticed her thanking me for doing this and that, keeping things organized and cleaned up. I also feel I've been doing pretty good at being equally responsible (in fact, I actually might doing a bit more than my fair share, but not really concerned about that)

In fact, last night we had a nice run together in the park and she seemed to be back to her normal, happy, vibrant self. She was teasing and taunting me in her own cute way about how she had run more steps on her pedometer than I had or she would doing a dance when I scolded her for not eating the lunch I had packed. This made her really irresistable to me and I tried to hug her, but she ran, dodged or said she didn't want a hug. Still, it seems like an improvement at least in her mood and playfullness.

Also, I had called my Insurance and they sent me a list of possible Marriage Counselors in the area. I have no idea how to go about choosing one. Not sure if I should "be a man" and set everything up then invite my wife, or consult with her first. I'm also not even sure if she wants to go. I was going to bring it up, but I kinda didn't want to ruin the evening that seemed to be going so well.

Is there any advice anyone could offer on which MC to choose? Or are they all more or less the same?

Ps. What is DH?


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## BronzeTorpedo (Dec 17, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Is there any advice anyone could offer on which MC to choose? Or are they all more or less the same?


Definitely not the same. They're like marriage forum commenters. Some are smart. Some are stupid. Some will advise you to divorce over the smallest issues. Some will advise to remain married unless faced with infidelity or physical abuse. Some will automatically take the wife's side, etc.

Call and see if you can speak briefly to a few. Pick the one you like best and set up an appointment. Then, tell your wife. If she comes, fine. If not, go by yourself and get individual counseling.

Also, if you go for a few appointments and don't like the counselor, don't be afraid to switch until you find a good one.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I can't think of a lot of requests she has had that have been unreasonable. At one point last year, before she bought her car and she basically wanted me to sell all my hobbies/gaming stuff, like 100% out the door. She also wanted to use that money to put towards a down payment on her car. I didn't really think that was fair. Sell all my stuff so you can buy a brand-new car (that you don't really need).


When interpret the behavior of others you have to remember that you are speculating. One interpretation of this is that she is a mean woman who wants to deprive you of your greatest joy so she could have something she wanted. Another interpretation is that she is fed up with you playing games when you should be doing XYZ and so this is the best way she knows to put a stop to that. Both are possible but which is more likely?



> Also, she tends to be critical of things I do/say around my family. For instance, when we were shopping/bought for my car, I couldn't tell my friends about it for a few months. Later, when we were looking for her car, she got uncomfortable when I discussed it with my family. She also got uncomfortable when I mentioned we were going Black Friday shopping to get a new TV a few years ago.
> I think her reasons for this was
> A. She thought a brother of one of my friends who owed me money would hear I bought a car and not pay me.
> B. I guess she felt buying her car was a personal, financial matter, and for some reason she felt that her wanting to a buy a TV made her look Materialistic.


Those are both plausible and charitable interpretations. Some simple advice: if it's not important, just let her have her way. How important was a new TV, really?

Now I don't want to gloss over the fact that her style is lacking in grace. I wish I could give her some advice on how to treat you better. But since you are the one here we'll have to settle for offering our advice to you.



> But this is all stuff from the past. I like to try to focus on the present situation. Thankfully, she hasn't been too critical of me in the past few weeks. In fact, I noticed her thanking me for doing this and that, keeping things organized and cleaned up. I also feel I've been doing pretty good at being equally responsible (in fact, I actually might doing a bit more than my fair share, but not really concerned about that)
> 
> In fact, last night we had a nice run together in the park and she seemed to be back to her normal, happy, vibrant self. She was teasing and taunting me in her own cute way about how she had run more steps on her pedometer than I had or she would doing a dance when I scolded her for not eating the lunch I had packed. This made her really irresistable to me and I tried to hug her, but she ran, dodged or said she didn't want a hug. Still, it seems like an improvement at least in her mood and playfullness.


This is a very, very positive sign. I can't tell you how important this is. Your marriage is far from hopeless.



> Also, I had called my Insurance and they sent me a list of possible Marriage Counselors in the area. I have no idea how to go about choosing one. Not sure if I should "be a man" and set everything up then invite my wife, or consult with her first. I'm also not even sure if she wants to go. I was going to bring it up, but I kinda didn't want to ruin the evening that seemed to be going so well.
> 
> Is there any advice anyone could offer on which MC to choose? Or are they all more or less the same?


I'll let others advise you on that, I've never been to a MC. My best guess, though, is that you should propose it to her beforehand so that she can participate in the selection. Otherwise, she might feel you've picked someone sympathetic to your opinion.



> Ps. What is DH?


DH=Dear Husband


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

I would have agreed with this before:



BronzeTorpedo said:


> Call and see if you can speak briefly to a few. Pick the one you like best and set up an appointment. Then, tell your wife. If she comes, fine. If not, go by yourself and get individual counseling.


But given this...



JukeboxHero said:


> In fact, last night we had a nice run together in the park and she seemed to be back to her normal, happy, vibrant self....


Don't you think that is unnecessarily provocative?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

She's not back to her old self, but she is warming up to you. 
Breathe and have a positive attitude, but don't pressure her or become needy. Keep up the good work in taking control of your life and being a responsible husband. Do not push her.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

ladymisato said:


> When interpret the behavior of others you have to remember that you are speculating. One interpretation of this is that she is a mean woman who wants to deprive you of your greatest joy so she could have something she wanted. Another interpretation is that she is fed up with you playing games when you should be doing XYZ and so this is the best way she knows to put a stop to that. Both are possible but which is more likely?


I never really felt like she was intentionally trying to be mean, but kinda controlling. I think the second option is the main reason, combined with the fact that she thinks they aren't normal, adult-male/manly hobbies. She thinks they're childish. She's told me that before.



ladymisato said:


> Those are both plausible and charitable interpretations. Some simple advice: if it's not important, just let her have her way. How important was a new TV, really?


I'm not sure what you mean by charitable in this situation. And..let her have the TV? We decided to go shopping for the TV for Black Friday. She just didn't like telling me family about it. Somehow a discussion regarding Black Friday came up (which I've never been a fan of). I told them, "We're gonna go shopping cuz Baby wants a new TV" or something to that extent. I guess I can see that would make her feel like the scapegoat.



CynthiaDe said:


> She's not back to her old self, but she is warming up to you.
> Breathe and have a positive attitude, but don't pressure her or become needy. Keep up the good work in taking control of your life and being a responsible husband. Do not push her.


Thanks CynthiaDe, the thing is...

Well, I'm not really sure about things that I do that might make me appear needy or pressuring her.

Let me tell you how the past few days have been going..
Last night, she talked to her family after dinner. We were both relaxing and talking her mother and father (who is the coolest FIL EVER, and I would miss her family a lot, especially him if we ever had a Divorce). Later I left and was thinking about posting some stuff up for sale, but I was kinda putting it off and browsed the web for a bit. I finally decided to get some stuff out and take pics. She came in the room and said she was going to watch TV and I could just keep doing what I was doing. 

A little later, I gave her a massage that she was desperately needing due to her sinuses being really stuffed up. It was pretty late so we watched the 10'o Clock news and went to bed. 

Now, one thing I haven't mentioned yet is that I haven't done any masturbating or pleasuring myself since her Birthday (Mar 2), so basically a month. Idk if it's a good idea or not, but I've definitely been feeling pretty horny lately. I keep having sexual dreams and fantasies during the daytime (even at work, which is pretty distracting, I must admit). On the other hand, I think this is increasing my desire for her and really helping me focus on improving myself for her.

I actually texted her this morning telling me how waking up next to her was like waking up and finding your favorite treat there beside you and described how hard it was to resist. (with a few more details). She mentioned I should have been in bed earlier, because she didn't like being woken up early. She said thanks for the massage, but said she was i Work mode and asked if we could talk about it later. 

Anyways, with my imagination running kinda wild, I decided to buy her some flowers on the way home from work, and uh..some whipped cream too. She seemed to like the flowers, but not overly excited and commented on how expensive they were. I told her I didn't care and I just wanted to show her how special she was and she deserved it. 
She also asked why I bought the Whipped Cream and I tried to drop some subtle hints like "Maybe for a treat later". Not sure if she picked up on it, she was giving me some strange expressions and asking "what kinda treat". I tried to give her some subtle hints and smiled.

I tried to plan a date on the spot, but she didn't like any of my suggestions. So, we stayed home and cleaned. Now that cleaning is done, she's chatting with her friends and listening to music and I'm up her just trying to get stuff ready to sale and browsing the web...



P.s. As far going to bed early to do something I have a strong feeling she wouldn't have though, because whenever we are in bed early, she just wants to Watch TV, browse on her phone/ipad.....and she was feeling stuffy, so I didn't bother her about it.

Btw. if you want to know more about my sex life issues, read here. Sexually explicit details inside, so be warned.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...ting-sex-problem-explicit-details-inside.html


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I never really felt like she was intentionally trying to be mean, but kinda controlling.


I think there is really little question that she is "controlling", though we might debate what exactly that means. Maybe she's just opinionated and bossy or maybe she's literally trying to run your life.

Some questions to consider:

1) Was she this way when you married? Or did this develop in reaction to you afterwards?

2) Is she trying to control you toward constructive goals that you share? Or is she simply asserting her will over yours?

3) Is she controlling in a way that makes you feel loved or despised?


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Good God man, you have to act now!. Can you not see where your marriage is heading? Your wife is telling you point blank what she wants from you and how you are failing. I'm trying to help you, but I'm going to be blunt. Man to man. Husband to husband.


JukeboxHero said:


> Aside from the initial sacrifice to give up her lifestyle, friends and family in PH, I'm not sure what she's sacrificed.


Oh just that then?  What more is there to sacrifice? How has your lifestyle changed?


> I'm still not sure about the sacrifice. Maybe it's emotional or some intangible sacrifice.


The sacrifice is obvious if you can understand what she's saying. Your wife is sacrificing her dream of having a family with you. She may still go on to have a family. *It just won't be with you.* If this is the future that you want, continue to be defensive and do nothing. Put off any meaningful changes for another day.

That business with her wishing she'd bought a Mustang is not "petty", it's a clear indication of where she sees her future headed. Family with you is off the table. Single life and looking for your replacement is becoming more attractive.

You see this pattern repeated over and over again in every thread on here about Walk Away Wives. They tell their husbands exactly what needs to change. And when nothing happens they leave the men they love.

Marriage is change. Marriage should be dynamic. If you think you can go through life not changing, then you will find change forced upon you. Right now, you are changing from "Man who I want to raise a family and spend the rest of my life with" to "Man-child who is holding me back".



> I don't think we can have kids due to a sexual dysfunction on my behalf. She's also afraid I won't be responsible or help her raise the kid because I'll be too into my games. I'm pretty certain if I became a father, all my games/hobbies would be into the closet for a long time.


Why would she get pregnant now (with you)? Why would she put her body through carrying your child for nine months on the off chance you might get your sh!t together?

Do something about this TODAY. If you don't want to sell you stuff, then don't. You'll only become resentful. Pack up your hobbies and put them in the closet. Put away the computer games. If you want to be looked as potential family material this is what you must do. Get off the internet and do something tangible to improve your marriage today.


> Right now, she doesn't want to hug me or have sex with me, so I'm pretty certain kids are in the distant future, if ever (and she's given up on *us* ever being able to have them)


Yes. But she probably hasn't given up on having kids altogether.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

^ To add to that, I'd carefully consider whether the change she requires of you is change you want. You can be plenty manly and responsible while still having interests some women might consider childish.

To say you have to stop playing video games or model building, or toy collecting or whatever, simply because she perceives these things as childish wouldn't pass muster with me. You like what you like.

If you're taking care of your responsibilities and stepping up, her leaving you because of her perceptions about what you enjoy could very well be a blessing in disguise because it's a good sign that she isn't right for you.

If the rest of your sh*t is in order, the right woman will appreciate you and respect your interests, in fact being supportive of them. By all means play video games or do whatever it is you do, but on your time, after taking care of responsibilities and relationship maintenance (spending time). It's important that everyone have some amount of "me" time. What you do with your "me" time is up to you, not her.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

azteca1986 said:


> Good God man, you have to act now!. Can you not see where your marriage is heading? Your wife is telling you point blank what she wants from you and how you are failing. I'm trying to help you, but I'm going to be blunt. Man to man. Husband to husband.
> Oh just that then?  What more is there to sacrifice? How has your lifestyle changed?
> The sacrifice is obvious if you can understand what she's saying. Your wife is sacrificing her dream of having a family with you. She may still go on to have a family. *It just won't be with you.* If this is the future that you want, continue to be defensive and do nothing. Put off any meaningful changes for another day.
> 
> ...


Hello Azteca,

I appreciate your blunt honesty. I've definitely been making some positive changes in my relationship. Also, I want to be clear that, at the time of the OP, and even more-so now, I've pretty much set aside hobbies/gaming. I don't want you to have the perception that I'm sitting around playing video games, doing Hobby stuff all day and leaving my wife with all the household chores. There may have been times in the past 2-3 yrs where that happened, but I haven't played hardly any games since the beginning of this year.

For instance, this past weekend, I...
-Made Breakfast, washed all the dishes
-Did at least half the laundry work (probably more), put all our clothes away.
-Ran errands without her. Picked up groceries, rental DVD..etc
-Went to fetch her camera she thought we might need for a Friend's Kid's B-day party..
-Started prepping dinner tonight when I got home, we made dinner together.

I also noticed at the B-day party, she started opening up a bit more to physical touch. She leaned against me, rest her hands on my shoulder while I was sitting near her.
Overall, she's been less resistant to my desire for physical affection such as hugs. However, she still isn't as receptive as I would like.

She was also looking at potential houses to buy again and earlier this week she was discussing potential vacation plans for later in the year. 
FYI, for my own personal life, I'm getting my resume ready to apply for a potential job that should be a significant boost in income. Been working out more than before (not a ton, but I ran/lifted weights 2-3 times this week.)

Also, added bonus

We also had sex 2x this weekend. I initiated and did most of the pleasuring, wasn't ideal, but it was better than nothing.

So, overall, I feel like our relationship is improving and she's not about to be a WAW.

However, there are some incidents that did concern me.

She had some wine for dinner tonight. She had 2 glasses or so and said she might have a Smirnoff later.
I asked why she was drinking so much, and she replied

"Cuz I'm an alcoholic you know" 
I assumed she was being half sarcastic, because she does like to go out and drink every now and again with her friends at work, but she's not alcoholic

I replied with "Wow, drinking, clubbing, partying and you have a fancy car, what kinda girl did I marry"

She said something "Yah, I'm wondering the same thing, you better Hope I don't lose my helmet"

I asked, "what helmet, what are you talking about?"

She responded "The helmet that protects me from hitting my head, so I won't wake up and see reality" 

I'm not sure if this is verbatim, but it's pretty dang close. I feel she's still not quite happy with the relationship. I think she's missing her old lifestyle of hanging out with friends, going out to party, club, etc. Even though she still has friends she goes to bars and sees bands with.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Complacency is the biggest marriage killer, so I'm glad you've made changes to your lifestyle. Good stuff. Keep it up. 


JukeboxHero said:


> Hello Azteca,
> 
> I appreciate your blunt honesty. I've definitely been making some positive changes in my relationship. Also, I want to be clear that, at the time of the OP, and even more-so now, I've pretty much set aside hobbies/gaming. I don't want you to have the perception that I'm sitting around playing video games, doing Hobby stuff all day and leaving my wife with all the household chores. There may have been times in the past 2-3 yrs where that happened, but I haven't played hardly any games since the beginning of this year.


I have a lot of stuff from my hobbies as a teen. They were boxed and left at my parents and once I got married they got moved to our place. Over the years the question of these boxes came up from time to time. See, her toys had been given away years ago. So, in comparison my hanging on to my things would always be seen to be "childish". I didn't care. I never tried to explain myself to my wife. These things were important to me. Last year we were on the move again and having to decide what needed to be shipped. Twelve years into our marriage she finally wanted to know what was in those boxes. I used to paint lead and plastic figures. I didn't play the games, I just painted them. _"Wow! These are beautiful" she said "you must have spent hours painting them"_. Indeed I did. Which is why I didn't throw them away.

Note, I never said get rid of your stuff, only to put them on the back burner for now. Same goes for the gaming. Knock it on the head for six months till you get get your marriage to a better place. 



> For instance, this past weekend, I...
> -Made Breakfast, washed all the dishes
> -Did at least half the laundry work (probably more), put all our clothes away.
> -Ran errands without her. Picked up groceries, rental DVD..etc
> ...


Okay, this is fine, but understand all these things only make you a tolerable roommate. They are the types of things that we didn't really appreciate take up a huge amount of time in a marriage and a_way from each other_. 

The way I see it I play four roles domestically; dutiful son, faithful husband, devoted dad and... horny boyfriend. I like that last guy. My wife loves him; he's playful, fun to be around, takes liberties with her and reminds her that she's still a very desirable woman. 



> I also noticed at the B-day party, she started opening up a bit more to physical touch. She leaned against me, rest her hands on my shoulder while I was sitting near her.
> Overall, she's been less resistant to my desire for physical affection such as hugs. However, she still isn't as receptive as I would like.


This is good. Be patient. Keep things heading in this direction and you'll both be fine.


> FYI, for my own personal life, *I'm getting my resume ready to apply for a potential job that should be a significant boost in income.* Been working out more than before (not a ton, but I ran/lifted weights 2-3 times this week.)


This is massively important. It's all about action; actively trying to improve life for both of you (and your family if/when that happens). Get on it and best of luck. 


> So, overall, I feel like our relationship is improving and she's not about to be a WAW.


Just don't slacken off, okay? Be the best you at all times. Don't waste a minute. As DvlsAdvc8 said, if you get your own house in order all the rest will fall into place.


> I'm not sure if this is verbatim, but it's pretty dang close. I feel she's still not quite happy with the relationship. I think she's missing her old lifestyle of hanging out with friends, going out to party, club, etc. Even though she still has friends she goes to bars and sees bands with.


I'm not going to pretend I can decode what your wife meant. Just yesterday I told my wife that 10% of the time I have no idea what's going through her mind. She asked me if I thought that was a problem. _"Nah. It just means that life with you will never be dull"._ Our wives can be incomprehensible. Don't worry about it.

There's a book by Michelle Langley on why women cheat (nothing for you to worry about, btw). She says (in general terms) that men don't really dream about being married, so once they are they're pretty happy with what they get. Women do dream and then the reality of marriage can become a whole series of disappointments.

To you and I, what it means is that we don't stop trying once we get the girl. We accept that for a relationship to be healthy, we have to keep moving forward, to grow as people. Staying in a relationship is far harder than dating or even getting a woman to commit to you for life. If she's missing her single life, you need to step into that breech. Your social lives should be enmeshed for the large part. This doesn't mean you have to be in each other's face 24/7, but that on the whole you should be the most interesting thing in her life. Don't be daunted, being interesting is fun.

*Azteca's guide to being a husband:
**Step 1: *Remind your wife regularly that there is nothing she loves more than the undivided attention of her husband.
*Step 2: *Don't over-complicate things. Stick to Step 1


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> I replied with "Wow, drinking, clubbing, partying and you have a fancy car, what kinda girl did I marry"
> 
> She said something "Yah, I'm wondering the same thing, you better Hope I don't lose my helmet"
> 
> ...


Is there some reason the two of you can't go out with these friends?

I would find the above statement highly insulting.

"Reality is that the door is right there. Speak to me like that again and I'll show you how it's used."

For real guy... I'd drop this chick on her @ss. Discontent with your ability to step up and be the guy is one thing. Verbal abuse and steady eroding of your self-worth is another thing entirely. If you allow it, she's going to continue to be a suck on your self-esteem, and you'll never have respect.

"Come here. What makes you think you can talk to me like that? If this reality is so bad for you, then I suggest you go find another one, because I won't tolerate being spoken to like that. You're here because you want to be here. If you don't want to be here, by all means leave."

The woman knows she has you totally wrapped around her finger. She seems believe she's some kind of blessing to you, and staying with you is some kind of act of charity or sacrifice on her part. You don't want that sh*t in your life. Eventually, after she's left and had her fun being wild with her girlfriends, and gone through enough non-committal wild men, she may come back and want you again; a guy that valued her too much... so much as to give up his dignity. And if she does... you should say no. "I'm seeing this awesome chick who games with me, and I wouldn't want to keep holding you back from your amazing life."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JukeboxHero said:


> Aside from the initial sacrifice to give up her lifestyle, friends and family in PH, I'm not sure what she's sacrificed. I'm not sure why she felt I wasn't emotionally invested before, perhaps because, In the past, if we're both looking at stuff on our Ipads, I would be looking at something related to games/hobbies/random junk and she would be looking at a house or apartment she might want to get 1-2 yrs from said date.
> 
> As far as why she wants me to get rid of my hobbies, I think it's 2 reasons.
> 1. She thinks they take too much time/attention/thoughts away from her. Sometimes she's probably right, other times I would do them while she was watching one of her shows on TV which I wasn't really interested in. Or because I'd go out on the occasional Friday night and stay out late.
> 2. She thinks they're juvenile/for children, despite the fact the most of the players are men my age (and sometimes their GF's too). IN fact, some of the guys play more than I do and have kids etc. I think she wants me to have "normal", manly hobbies like cars, sports, etc.


She thinks you're a little boy.

Are you?

My advice: offset the gaming with some time lifting heavy things.



> I don't think we can have kids due to a sexual dysfunction on my behalf. She's also afraid I won't be responsible or help her raise the kid because I'll be too into my games. I'm pretty certain if I became a father, all my games/hobbies would be into the closet for a long time. I think she's also afraid her body can't handle it (because she's small/petite) and afraid of the additional cost and responsibility. Right now, she doesn't want to hug me or have sex with me, so I'm pretty certain kids are in the distant future, if ever (and she's given up on us ever being able to have them)


All this stacks against your reproductive potential as a mate.

You need to offset it, and stop worrying about her body.


> It's totally petty and BS. She bought it in 2014 and nothing has changed as far as us having kids. We've been having troubles/debates on this long before she wanted a car. Also, we bought a Rav4 the year before for "our family" so we already have a family-type car. Also, when we have the money, she gets nice things like Coach Purses (on sale of course), Doc Martin shoes, a Paddleboard, stuff to send home to her family. I'm still not sure about the sacrifice. Maybe it's emotional or some intangible sacrifice.


Noise.



> Keep in mind, I bought her a gift, went out with her and my parents for a nice, sushi dinner and made her a snow cake with real candles. But it didn't count because it happened the day before her B-day.


You really roll out the red carpet for her, don't you?

Maybe you should stop being the red carpet so much if you don't want her walking all over you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hello Azteca,
> 
> I appreciate your blunt honesty. I've definitely been making some positive changes in my relationship. Also, I want to be clear that, at the time of the OP, and even more-so now, I've pretty much set aside hobbies/gaming. I don't want you to have the perception that I'm sitting around playing video games, doing Hobby stuff all day and leaving my wife with all the household chores. There may have been times in the past 2-3 yrs where that happened, but I haven't played hardly any games since the beginning of this year.


Then don't accept the criticism from her if it isn't true.


> For instance, this past weekend, I...
> -Made Breakfast, washed all the dishes
> -Did at least half the laundry work (probably more), put all our clothes away.
> -Ran errands without her. Picked up groceries, rental DVD..etc
> ...


OMFG.
Stop.

Just stop.

The servants on "downton abbey" don't do this much for their lords.

Are you trying to be her servant?


> I also noticed at the B-day party, she started opening up a bit more to physical touch. She leaned against me, rest her hands on my shoulder while I was sitting near her.
> Overall, she's been less resistant to my desire for physical affection such as hugs. However, she still isn't as receptive as I would like.


Sounds pretty passive.


> She was also looking at potential houses to buy again and earlier this week she was discussing potential vacation plans for later in the year.
> FYI, for my own personal life, I'm getting my resume ready to apply for a potential job that should be a significant boost in income. Been working out more than before (not a ton, but I ran/lifted weights 2-3 times this week.)


Awesome!

Put your focus there.


> Also, added bonus
> 
> We also had sex 2x this weekend. I initiated and did most of the pleasuring, wasn't ideal, but it was better than nothing.


Keep going!

Who cares if you have to initiate?


> So, overall, I feel like our relationship is improving and she's not about to be a WAW.
> 
> However, there are some incidents that did concern me.
> 
> ...


2 glasses of wine is drinking so much?


> "Cuz I'm an alcoholic you know"
> I assumed she was being half sarcastic, because she does like to go out and drink every now and again with her friends at work, but she's not alcoholic
> 
> I replied with "Wow, drinking, clubbing, partying and you have a fancy car, what kinda girl did I marry"


Sounds whiny.


> She said something "Yah, I'm wondering the same thing, you better Hope I don't lose my helmet"
> 
> I asked, "what helmet, what are you talking about?"
> 
> She responded "The helmet that protects me from hitting my head, so I won't wake up and see reality"


And your response was: _____?

Hint: mine would have included a playful smack on her ass.


> I'm not sure if this is verbatim, but it's pretty dang close. I feel she's still not quite happy with the relationship. I think she's missing her old lifestyle of hanging out with friends, going out to party, club, etc. Even though she still has friends she goes to bars and sees bands with.


?


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