# Wife says: don't need sex



## FromNeptune (Apr 22, 2008)

It was not really a surprise when my wife of 40+ years (last time we enjoyed sexual intimacy mesured in years) told me she does not need sex. When I ask for clarification she said she meant she does not have to have sex but would enjoy it. Early in our marriage she was fairly agressive in starting but over the years this has gone away. At my age, still very active and healthy, I not only need but want not just sex but a healthy enjoyable sexual relationship. I have pursued being the starter, slowly over several days but with no response. She also said no more french kissing, she says it is like having a phobia and she does not know why.

But she watches on a regular basis TV shows like 'Baggage' with Jerry Springer and Wife Swapping, Newly wed show where couples are asked questions that frequently are very personal. So she must enjoy these 'sex riddled' TV shows but says she is not interested herself? She is saying no interest to me but yet spends lots of time watch sex programs. 

I think what she does with her time, what she chooses to watch is from her real inner desires and she says to me she does not need sex just to put me off...i.e. stay away.

If she were in a situation where a sexual relationship could occur, in time I believe she would jump at it. Not saying I want this to happen but that i believe she is still very interested but just not with me.

???


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The two of you have not has sex in a long time. It's hard to get started again after that.

You two would greatly benefit from a sex counselor. They are like marriage counselors who specialize in thing related to sex but also consider the who marriage.

They have techniques to get couples back having an active sex life.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Does she have any history of abuse or assault? There are a few red flags there in your story, so it is something which might be involved.

If not, you could tell her that sex is important to you and you intend to have an active sexual life. You prefer it to be with her and that she be genuinely enthusiastic about sex. But in any case you will be having an active healthy sex life with or without her.

You see, she can't have it both ways. If to her sex is truly not important, she should not care if you get it elsewhere. But if she is bothered by you having sex with someone else then it means she does see it as central to a marriage.

Let's use the tennis analogy. If she doesn't care one whit about tennis she would not have any desire to play tennis with you, though it might be somewhat fun for her, but *she would not be upset if you played tennis with someone else*.

Either sex doesn't mean anything to her in the context of a marriage or it does mean something. If it does mean something, she is obligated to enthusiastically participate in working on that part of the relationship. Otherwise she is willfully withholding a central part of an intimate personal relationship. That is abusing you! Her motivation could be laziness, selfishness, manipulation, punishment, etc. Whatever the motivation it is wrong to willfully refuse to participate in an important part of a relationship.

A therapist may be helpful in getting things back on track, specifically by creating some safety and also by there being someone to be accountable to. We went years with no sex in our marriage, and yes it is awkward the first few times back. My wife bought into the need for sex in the marriage when she saw that I was truly ready to pull the plug if things (all things not just sex) didn't turn around.

Have you read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover?


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The two of you have not has sex in a long time. It's hard to get started again after that.
> 
> You two would greatly benefit from a sex counselor. They are like marriage counselors who specialize in thing related to sex but also consider the who marriage.
> 
> They have techniques to get couples back having an active sex life.



:iagree:

I fully fully agree...takes a lot of work to get back into sex after not having it for a long time.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

fromneptune;

you are very much not alone in this. i belong to another forum which has a group of people called "living in a sexless marriage"
shockingly, there are almost 5,000 members in this group.
imagine there are probably many times that who have never found their way there.

like you, many of the members are perplexed, angry, frustrated about their sexless partners. they wonder if it's just them and if their partners would (or do) jump at the chance to have sex with someone else. i imagine the reasons are varied.

in my personal case, my w has had a life of sexual abuse.
evey man in her life before me has used her for sex and then thrown her away or abandoned her in some way. she was sexually abuse as a child. her ex husband before me beat her up on their wedding night. she is terrified of sex. also, she has some severe, chronic physical issues that make sex very difficult for her. even when i am gentle and loving it is too much for her. but she refuses to see a counselor. she is in denial and insists it's not her problem. 

yet i know she is a sexual being. every now and then she reveals her sexual side. 

this makes me wonder at times wether it is really as much a control thing and abusive like the above poster suggested.

she is terrified of sex. needs it like almost everyone else.
has some serious physical issues. has had cervical cancer twice, scaring, complete hysterectomy. but she is in denial and therfore uses sex (or the denial of) as a weapon.
i know its not an attraction thing. i keep myself in great shape.
she gives me compliments on the way i look. i know by reactions around me im a good lookin guy.

tell us more about your wife, her history and her intimacy issues and maybe some of the posters can help out.

good luck to you, and remember you are not alone by any means


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jorgegene have you gotten support and/or therapy for yourself? As a secondary survivor you are likely traumatized also. A book which helped me a lot is "Haunted Marriage".

Your wife needs therapy for her own peace of mind. I hope she is able to someday get that help.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

thanks thor. i will look into getting this book. for a while i was a member of a secondary survivor group. helped me learn a lot and about compassion understanding and patience.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Some women really do need romance in their lives to want to have SF. Are you still treating her like you did when you were dating? Do you surprise her with an overnight at a B&B? Take her on day trips? Get couples massages? Do the kinds of things she sees in romance novels? If not, then you're probably not gonna get what you want.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My own blushing bride has developed quite a prudish repressive Calvinist streak but I don't know or much care whether that's the cause or the symptom of her utter lack of interest and often outright hostility toward any form of physical intimacy. In either case the two go hand and hand and in her mind everything and everyone is 'dirty'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dog, is this a new marriage or the old one?


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## F27 (Jul 3, 2012)

I had same thing with my husband and he was only 31! That's why we broke up.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> Dog, is this a new marriage or the old one?


Quite old, decades.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Withholding sex is emotionally abusive, even if the one doing the withholding doesn't realize they're battering their spouse in this way. 

I have an article on this topic at Withholding Sex & What to Do About It that you may find helpful. It has some tips for responding that I've culled from many resources. (And if it isn't helpful, please let me know!)


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

F27 said:


> I had same thing with my husband and he was only 31! That's why we broke up.


Hi, was that the only reason?


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

In such situations, the man should not address the subject of sex alone. She will say what yours did, you are a very nice guy, I am happy to be married, but I am not particularly interested in sex now. Please don't feel bad. By the way, I was looking at some new furniture for our living room, and at $2,800 it is a real bargain. 

You need to start distancing yourself from her. Go out, come back later than expected, pay less attention to her, get some new clothes, go to the gym and get out of your predictable pattern. Don't bring up sex. At some point, she should be able to pick up that there are problems, and you can mention sex then, in the context of overall problems with your marriage. 

She needs to understand that the marriage is a package of many things, that your happiness is important, and that she should be interested in some sexual activity for no other reason that that it makes you happy. Imagine a husband who said, your mother and father can never set forth in my home, glad we got this out of the way, now I'd like to go to bed with you. The wife would understand that sex was a part of their overall relationship and she would likely lose her interest until she felt good about their relationship and how she was treated.


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## FromNeptune (Apr 22, 2008)

To each of you-thank you for taking time to respond, showing support and suggestions. The books and articles I have copied the names and sources elsewhere in my computer to read. I do believe part, how significant I don't know, is the fact that she was abused sexually on a date several years before we met. She is from a family that did not talk about personal feelings, good or bad and definitely not about what happened on that date. I know she has never had counseling-only one who knows besides me is her deceased older sister. I have been to counseling and encouraged her to do so but not there yet. 

Again your comments help and not only for me but I hope I can use them in a way to reach my wife, not only for my want for intimacy, but for her to enjoy life fuller and all the life gives.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I hate to tell you, but most likely the only way she will ever get therapy is when you are done and say 'either you get help to deal with your background or I'm moving on.'


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

the thought of being trapped in a sexless marriage is bad enough.
though one can be compasionate, and even tolerant to a point when you realize the aversion to sex, how terrified and abused your partner has been. when i have tried to talk to her about her past or suggested therapy she shuts off completely.

i was a single bachelor for a couple of years and can stand the no sex, if there is some loving and physical aspect to the relationship.

the worst part however is the suspiscion like neptune first suggested, that it is YOU that she has an aversion to. the nagging 
horrible thoughts that torture you at times, that it is mostly 'fog' and that what you have is a sexual being who uses their aversion to sex as a weapon against you. that they actually had an active sexual life before you. you dont go there becasue you want to be compassionate and you dont have any proof this is the case.

we are separated now so its not an issue at the moment, but i still
wonder who she really is.


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## Cat3CatGirl (Jun 19, 2012)

FromNeptune said:


> To each of you-thank you for taking time to respond, showing support and suggestions. The books and articles I have copied the names and sources elsewhere in my computer to read. I do believe part, how significant I don't know, is the fact that she was abused sexually on a date several years before we met. *She is from a family that did not talk about personal feelings, good or bad *and definitely not about what happened on that date. I know she has never had counseling-only one who knows besides me is her deceased older sister. I have been to counseling and encouraged her to do so but not there yet.
> 
> Again your comments help and not only for me but I hope I can use them in a way to reach my wife, not only for my want for intimacy, but for her to enjoy life fuller and all the life gives.


This sounds like me. I've been married for 19 years and we're trying to reconsile after a PA on my DH's part. Part of our healing process is to get better at communicating, both good and bad. Our marriage counsilor stated that both of us seem like "controlled people." We're trying to get in touch with our emotions, express them appropriately, and work together to resolve issues.

We're still in the very beginning stages, but it has improved my desire already. When a person holds in their emotions, especially negative ones, it has a BIG impact on their desire.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Married for 40+ years... may I ask your ages?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

FromNeptune said:


> I do believe part, how significant I don't know, is the fact that she was abused sexually on a date several years before we met.


The sexual assault/abuse is likely _everything_. That is not an exaggeration.

Sexual abuse as a child or sexual assault as a teen or adult is huge in how it affects her. From small to large issues with emotional and sexual intimacy. 

You play a part in the relationship being good or bad. But *you cannot fix the marriage yourself*. You likely have not been reacting or behaving in ways which are productive. Sometimes it will be normal things which would work for normal women, but which are harmful with her. Other times it may be that your own issues get in the way.

But the bottom line is that nothing is going to get substantially better until she gets good therapy. She will have to decide she wants the therapy and she will have to commit to herself to do it.


I agree with turnera who said:



turnera said:


> I hate to tell you, but most likely the only way she will ever get therapy is when you are done and say 'either you get help to deal with your background or I'm moving on.'


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> ...one can be compasionate, and even tolerant to a point when you realize the aversion to sex, how terrified and abused your partner has been.


Yes. I have shed many tears over the terror my wife experienced as a child, the loss of her innocent childhood, and the anguish she has suffered as an adult.




jorgegene said:


> when i have tried to talk to her about her past or suggested therapy she shuts off completely.


Yes again. My wife refuses any therapy and refuses to discuss her CSA in any way with me, including not discussing how it may affect our marriage. Ultimately what matters is what she brings to the marriage, so we don't have to discuss the abuse. But we do have to be able to discuss _us_, which means touching on the effects of the abuse sometimes.

The refusal to deal with the abuse does not diminish my sorrow and compassion for her, but it does mean she is refusing to participate in a real marriage.




jorgegene said:


> the worst part however is the suspiscion like neptune first suggested, that it is YOU that she has an aversion to. the nagging horrible thoughts that torture you at times, that it is mostly 'fog' and that what you have is a sexual being who uses their aversion to sex as a weapon against you. that they actually had an active sexual life before you. you dont go there becasue you want to be compassionate and you dont have any proof this is the case.


I spent 29 years in that torture. At first I thought there must be something wrong with me. But I also had proof she was sexual with other men before me, including things she told me long ago. In this past year I have stumbled upon additional proof that her past was far more extensive than she ever admitted to, and she has tossed some things at me about that past which seem intended to hurt me. I have felt she used sex as a weapon (that is the exact word I used to myself and my counselor btw) and as a tool of husband management. She has admitted to the management via sex but not to the weapon aspect.

If you wonder why I stayed, it was at first the deep shame of being so defective as a man that even _my wife_ would not have sex with me without first getting drunk, and then only once every few months. Then it was the baby. Plus I was non-confrontational. Plus I did not know of her abuse history and thus had no idea how to approach repairing the marriage. As a prototypical Nice Guy, I did everything wrong under the circumstances.




jorgegene said:


> i still wonder who she really is.


Yes, I constantly wonder who my wife really is.


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## ezhillatl (Jul 6, 2012)

FromNeptune said:


> It was not really a surprise when my wife of 40+ years (last time we enjoyed sexual intimacy mesured in years) told me she does not need sex. When I ask for clarification she said she meant she does not have to have sex but would enjoy it. Early in our marriage she was fairly agressive in starting but over the years this has gone away. At my age, still very active and healthy, I not only need but want not just sex but a healthy enjoyable sexual relationship. I have pursued being the starter, slowly over several days but with no response. She also said no more french kissing, she says it is like having a phobia and she does not know why.
> 
> But she watches on a regular basis TV shows like 'Baggage' with Jerry Springer and Wife Swapping, Newly wed show where couples are asked questions that frequently are very personal. So she must enjoy these 'sex riddled' TV shows but says she is not interested herself? She is saying no interest to me but yet spends lots of time watch sex programs.
> 
> ...


Look dude she is ****ing somebody ok... They all say that when they dont wont you any more..


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ezhillatl said:


> Look dude she is ****ing somebody ok... They all say that when they dont wont you any more..


The rules with women who were sexually abused or sexually assaulted are completely different. Normally I'd agree with you, but not when abuse/assault are in her past.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> My own blushing bride has developed quite a prudish repressive Calvinist streak but I don't know or much care whether that's the cause or the symptom of her utter lack of interest and often outright hostility toward any form of physical intimacy. In either case the two go hand and hand and in her mind everything and everyone is 'dirty'.


Calvinist? The Puritans held that failure to provide sex was grounds for immediate divorce. A women could divorce her husband if he couldn't get it up. No joke. What you're describing are the views of St.Ambrose and the other so-called "church fathers."


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> The Puritans held that failure to provide sex was grounds for immediate divorce. A women could divorce her husband if he couldn't get it up. No joke.


That is still the law in Utah. No joke!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I agree with Bobby5000. Start shaking up the foundations a little bit. It's amazing what an old man can do for his body with a barbell or an old school Nautilus machine. Do it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thor said:


> That is still the law in Utah. No joke!


Mormons aren't catholic, so I believe it.


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## ffp20 (Nov 13, 2011)

Thor said:


> The rules with women who were sexually abused or sexually assaulted are completely different. Normally I'd agree with you, but not when abuse/assault are in her past.


How are they different and how do you deal with those rules? Is it harsh to enforce boundaries then about intimacy and communications?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> they wonder if it's just them and if their partners would (or do) jump at the chance to have sex with someone else. i imagine the reasons are varied.
> 
> this makes me wonder at times wether it is really as much a control thing and abusive like the above poster suggested.


Personally, I never fell into that trap of thinking "does she just not like me, or is it just her?" My sense is that leads to just more misery as you beat yourself up trying to make things better. A superior approach is to start with your sexual needs as the foundation and frame the situation as "is he or she willing to meet those needs or not, and if so then under what conditions".

And, if you ever think that the lack of sex is rooted in malice (an attempt to abuse, control, intimidate) then you need to deal with that more decisively than just a simple disregard for your needs. If your spouse thinks he or she can use sex as a weapon against you, they may try to use other weapons as well.

My ex controlled me with sex because I was too naive or timid to oppose it. When I stopped being controlled with sex, my ex attempted to use my reputation, money, and ultimately our child as weapons against me. Those did not go on nearly as long as the sex thing and, as I've toughened up, she would not disrespect me to my face. This makes me think that if I had stood strong at the beginning she would not have tried those other things.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ffp20 said:


> How are they different and how do you deal with those rules? Is it harsh to enforce boundaries then about intimacy and communications?


The interactions with the abused can be different because the abuse can cause negative sexual views, trust issues, and the like. Their partners need to adjust their interactions and shorter-term expectations to account for a potential lack of normal sexual response and a potential need for therapy and a healing period.

It is not harsh or inappropriate to enforce boundaries as those are not about compelling anyone to perform; they are about what YOU (not the abused) will do in a given situation. The other person is not made to do anything but will suffer the natural consequences of his or her action or inaction. Also, you need to know it is up to the abused person to get help and be able to have normal relationships; you are not required to handle him or her with kid gloves or subordinate your wants and needs more than you would otherwise.

In my case (ex was a CSA survivor) I feel my approach was flawed for a while but my standards were not. After I learned about her childhood I offered to stand by her and get whatever help she needed. But, when she refused help it was clear I would hold her to the same standards as anyone else. I refused to tolerate hang-ups and phobias dominating our encounters. I never did (and never would) make her do anything, but I did not remove consequences. I made it clear for a long time that she was free to leave and seek a better situation elsewhere, which she eventually did - as is her right.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ffp20 said:


> How are they different and how do you deal with those rules? Is it harsh to enforce boundaries then about intimacy and communications?


 A woman who has been abused becomes a rabbit. You know how a rabbit is constantly "on" - looking out for danger, ready to run at a second's notice, and never ever relaxed. No matter how secure they 'seem' to be. Abused women always put on an act and, if you try to get them to be honest, trusting, playful in bed...it almost never happens. They never stop reliving, subconsciously and unaware, what was done to them. No matter how much they WANT to be free, fun-loving, something holds them back.

Long-term therapy can sometimes help her get past it; but not a guarantee.

So, yes it IS harsh to set guidelines; it's like telling your autistic husband to start looking you in the eyes - they may be able to force themselves to, for a moment, but it's painful and NOT a great experience for them.

What may work is to sit down (maybe in front of a therapist) and agree on something you can both approach; neither will get what they want 100%, but it may be enough that you can stay married.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

In my case, my husband knows he has to move slowly because I literally get skittish if he moves to fast to do something. Usually has to start with a bit of a backrub or arm/leg rub, to get me into the 'safe' mode.


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## ffp20 (Nov 13, 2011)

You're all assuming the abused person is "out" about it. In my case i knew something happened but dont know what. My Mrs completely denies anything about it now (although years ago she alluded to something but i was too young and dumb at that time to pick up on it), so theres absolutely NO chances of her going for counseling. We simply cannot talk about the relationship, intimacy, and sex. She just comes out and says shes unable to and thats very normal, and that im the one with issues. Of course i've been a big NG which hasnt helped and i have been dealing with that (with help of course). Through that i've restated boundaries and i'm now at the point of standing up for the boundaries since if i dont i come off as weak and full of ****. MAP, 180, nmmng is somewhat helpful, but in the prescence of probable abuse, is not very effective. Any advice outside of those tactics is appreciated.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ffp, then I would recommend you talk to her family - very discreetly, one at a time, until you get a better idea of what her life has been like. If she was abused, then you are dealing with a wife who came to you with an undiagnosed illness - none of which is her fault; I hope you can see that. I DO understand your frustration, believe me. I've had to push myself to have sex with my husband for 2-3 times a week for 30 years because I KNOW it's not fair to him to withhold it and because I was scared of his anger when I said no (but that's another story, you do NOT want to be THAT husband).

Talk to her family and friends, try to piece together her history so you can pinpoint where the abuse likely happened (she may not know; I didn't remember until my 40s), and then ask a professional for help.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ffp20 said:


> You're all assuming the abused person is "out" about it. In my case i knew something happened but dont know what. My Mrs completely denies anything about it now (although years ago she alluded to something but i was too young and dumb at that time to pick up on it), so theres absolutely NO chances of her going for counseling. We simply cannot talk about the relationship, intimacy, and sex. She just comes out and says shes unable to and thats very normal, and that im the one with issues. Of course i've been a big NG which hasnt helped and i have been dealing with that (with help of course). Through that i've restated boundaries and i'm now at the point of standing up for the boundaries since if i dont i come off as weak and full of ****. MAP, 180, nmmng is somewhat helpful, but in the prescence of probable abuse, is not very effective. Any advice outside of those tactics is appreciated.


Actually, I did not know the extent of what happened to my ex for some time, and never did learn all the details. She steadfastly refused to get help (either individual or marital). She tried to blame it on me until she finally acknowledged that she married me without really wanting me (people with traumatic childhoods can make poor relationship decisions).

Whether she admits or hides the details of her abuse, that she refuses to get help or accept responsibility puts you in the same boat as me. I recommend the same approach:

1) Set standards for her behavior and boundaries for yourself. Make it clear that the standards are reasonable and reflective of your true need (i.e. you are not taking advantage of her, abusing her, or acting like a pervert).
2) Offer her assistance and support, but make it clear that you will not walk on eggshells or otherwise enable her dysfunction.
3) Hold her accountable (via your boundaries) for her failure to participate in your marriage as a healthy, mature, sexually engaged wife in line with the standards you set forth.

If this sounds harsh, you need to be very clear on the following point: she is priortizing herself past a healthy individualism to the point where she is reneging on her role as your wife. Compared to her comfort, your legitimate wants and needs don't mean sh!t. She not only will not meet your needs now, she refuses to get the help she knows she needs (whether she admits it or not) to be able to do so in the future.

You need to be equally firm in asserting your standing in the household. If I were in your shoes (and having the benefit of my own experience), I would be as cool and distant to her needs as she is to yours:

1) Don't do extra chores
2) Skip the lovey-dovey notes and such
3) No shopping trips or dates and such funded by you.

She basically is treating you sexually like an FWB (at best). Make it consistent across your relationship. She will figure out real quick that she has three choices:

1) Tolerate the new dynamic (near-zero chance of this, as she will refuse a daily reminder of her failure).
2) Do what it takes to treat you better.
3) Leave.

With any of these three options, you are better off than you are now.

Get No More Mr. Nice Guy (Glover) and Passionate Marriage (Schnarch) and have at it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, most abuse victims will NEVER get help. Their toxic shame is so strong they won't even tell their therapist the truth (waving my hand here).


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ffp20 said:


> ...MAP, 180, nmmng is somewhat helpful, but in the prescence of probable abuse, is not very effective. Any advice outside of those tactics is appreciated.


Define "effective".

You cannot make her do anything (with the possible exception of an ultimatum like "do it or I'm leaving") and you certainly cannot make her want to be with you; if that is your definition of effective you will be disappointed. But, what if you define effectiveness as improvement in the happiness of your life?

IMO, everything out there involves making yourself more attractive, improving marital communication, understanding the differing needs of men and women, or negotiating differences. The last three do not apply to you because you know exactly where she stands and that she is refusing to compromise now. That leaves you only the first alternative, which basically involves making yourself as attractive as possible while making it clear that you will take that attractiveness somewhere else.

If she refuses to play ball, you might just have to accept that she does not like you all that much and/or she is a broken woman not capable of developing a healthy self and bringing it to a relationship. Best you understand that and control what you can, to make the best life possible for yourself.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ffp20 said:


> You're all assuming the abused person is "out" about it. In my case i knew something happened but dont know what. My Mrs completely denies anything about it now (although years ago she alluded to something but i was too young and dumb at that time to pick up on it), so theres absolutely NO chances of her going for counseling. *We simply cannot talk about the relationship, intimacy, and sex. She just comes out and says shes unable to and thats very normal, and that im the one with issues.* Of course i've been a big NG which hasnt helped and i have been dealing with that (with help of course). Through that i've restated boundaries and i'm now at the point of standing up for the boundaries since if i dont i come off as weak and full of ****. MAP, 180, nmmng is somewhat helpful, but in the prescence of probable abuse, is not very effective. Any advice outside of those tactics is appreciated.


We're very much in the same boat. My wife never told me of her abuse until 29 years into the marriage. With all the problems along the way, she never thought it somehow might be helpful to share the information.  

I went to IC after we were married a year due to severe stress over no sex and her constant rejection of me. I thought I had done something terrible (didn't know what) or was somehow repulsive to her. She had been quite sexual with previous boyfriends and in fact had been pretty unrestrained with me prior to us getting married. She always questioned me about what I talked about in therapy and what the therapist said. But she never said a word to me about her abuse history. She refused marriage therapy a few years later when our first baby was a year old and our marriage was in serious trouble. She was having nightmares and flashbacks, but she never told me about those either. I did however see the rages and the severe mood swings, and I was "walking on eggshells".

I was the Nicest Guy you'd ever meet, and so I was not equipped to deal with the situation. That was my contribution to the marriage problems.

There have been whole books written about how child sex abuse or sex assault affects a woman. Every person is different. In general there will be triggers, which may not be sexual at all (my wife's are a food item and a song), and there may be sexual things she cannot do (my wife's is kissing). The survivor may zone out or dissociate during sex. She goes off into another place mentally, and seems absent or disinterested. She may turn her face away. She probably has a very unhealthy view of what sexuality is or is not. She may see sex as a tool for her to gain approval or favor, and she may have been promiscuous as a teen or early 20's. If the abuser was family, she may suddenly have great difficulty with sex and/or emotional intimacy after getting married (or even after getting engaged) because the "safe" boyfriend has jumped categories and is now in the same category as her abuser, which is "family".

Some women muddle along fairly ok until they have a baby, especially a female baby, which then triggers all kinds of protectiveness, possibly aimed against her husband.

I have noticed that women who were abused or assaulted seem to be especially fearful of abandonment or rejection. This is based on what I have seen in a number of support groups and online forums. It may be common or not, idk, in the general population of abuse/assault survivors.

Now to get to your post and in particular the part I bolded above. Absolutely it is necessary and healthy for a couple to be able to discuss your relationship, emotional intimacy, and sex. You do not have unrealistic expectations or needs! She is absolutely not healthy if she can not discuss those things. There is no need for her to discuss what happened to her in detail, but if you are to have a healthy relationship it is imperative that you two be able to discuss the relationship. At times it will mean discussing how the effects of the abuse might be impacting the relationship.

My wife continues to refuse all forms of therapy, including marriage counseling, saying she "feels extremely threatened" by it. She is unable to discuss the relationship in any meaningful way.

Using common relationship building techniques is not likely to be productive if your wife refuses to admit she has any hangups. Her fear of abandonment will be triggered if you do the 180. I did a 180 about 5 years ago, and my wife promptly checked out. She decided the marriage was over but was waiting for the kids to graduate high school. All the affair red flags popped up at that time.

Becoming sexually aggressive might be taken as assault by her. Lots of sources say a man should sometimes just take his wife. Walk up and undress her. Well that is going to be very threatening to the abuse survivor! Sending sexy texts? That might be too aggressive. My wife is unable to have sex in the morning. Now I know why, but for 30+ years I just thought she disliked sex _with me_ in the morning. Your wife may need to get psyched up for sex, so you can't just jump her. She may only be able to deal with sex on certain days or times. Don't try any of those things like blindfolds or tying her to the bed!

As someone posted earlier, the chances of recovering a marriage to being somewhat normal is not very likely unless she gets good therapy. In this house it is a nuclear topic. A real Catch 22 because she has made it a divorce level infraction for me to even mention her abuse or to suggest therapy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

A couple of additional things.

Your wife was introduced to sex in a horrible way. No matter what the situation, it was an assault on her body in some way. There was also probably some form of emotional or psychological abuse involved. Coercion or threats by the abuser, or perhaps family who told her to STFU about it when she went to them for help. Her perspective on sexuality and close emotionally intimate relationships is based on a sick twisted introduction when she was too young to have any adult perspective.

If you haven't yet, read the book "Haunted Marriage".

We've mostly dwelled on the sex in your marriage in this thread. The sex is just one part of a healthy marriage, but without sex it seems like everything is wrong. Your wife likely has large issues surrounding emotional intimacy paralleling her issues with sexual intimacy. She may have learned that it is best to hide her real feelings and to keep lots of secrets. She obviously is adept at lying and deceiving you about the abuse, and she may have generalized that philosophy. My wife has a deep need to control my access to information about anything important in the relationship or about the kids. And if I don't know about it, I don't know that she is keeping the secret!

As much of a job as you have in regaining normal sexuality in your marriage, you have a job ahead in getting to normal openness and intimacy.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Imagine a husband who said, yes I am having an affair, but that should not impact our relationship or the many great things we do together. Obviously a relationship is a package with things each person loves to do and others he learns to like or love or simply enjoys them because his partner does. Unfortunately, in the
U.S. we tend to be in a my needs, my wants, what will make me happy, state and it is hard to make a marriage succeed with that. 

First, look at yourself. Having you been doing things that make her happy, planning weekends, going on vacation to the extent you can afford them, going out for dinner. Your wife has some signs of depression by simply watching television all day and you want to show the marriage can make her happy. A relaxing romantic weekend can break the ice by you want to let her know you are thinking about awakening the relationship as a whole, not just satisfying your needs. 

If you have been doing those things, then you have to get out of the routine. She has to realize, that you are not here to do all of the things she likes, but have no romance. This is part of an overall relationship.


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## ffp20 (Nov 13, 2011)

DTO said:


> Define "effective".
> 
> You cannot make her do anything (with the possible exception of an ultimatum like "do it or I'm leaving") and you certainly cannot make her want to be with you; if that is your definition of effective you will be disappointed. But, what if you define effectiveness as improvement in the happiness of your life?
> 
> ...


No, i didnt mean that at all. I've made significant changes to myself for ME, she chooses to not respond to those changes. for that i mean what i did for me didnt help with my marriage so far, but it has certainly made a better ME.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You are defining what 'helps' your marriage in terms of whether it gets you sex or not. Your changes likely had a TON of great effects on the marriage as a whole, your happiness (in other areas), her happiness...just not resulting in sex.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It isn't that she doesn't need it, she seems to not want it and you are irritating her by asking. I can't fathom how some women think it is a-ok to condemn their H's to a life without sex just because they don't want it. You should ask her how she would feel if you stopped meeting her needs.


Iagree and will never understand how ppl dont feel for their SO and sacrifice for the other. OMG it is not that hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It helps to understand how marriages devolve. You start, naively thinking that the PEA chemicals your body pushing through you will continue and that your whole world will revolve around your spouse. But that's statistically impossible - jobs, day to day, family, friends, unforeseen incidents...each day you face something that tests your relationship, puts a little stain on it, and strain on it, as you navigate these things to see how you two will REALLY deal with these things. We each come from a completely different background, different parents, dysfunctional or not, middle/oldest/youngest child (it really does matter), etc. etc.

So you approach your first issue one way; your spouse another. You may be a nice guy who lets her have her way; you may be a neanderthal who barks his orders. What matters is how your spouse FEELS when they experience your way. And vice versa. So, say you barked your way to a solution, cos that's how it was done in your house growing up; your wife's family was peace love dove and you negotiated your way to a solution there. She experiences your barking and...she retreats. Just a tiny bit. But she remembers the unsafe feeling and doesn't discuss it with you; maybe she blames herself, who knows? 

But then you go on, have more experiences, and a pattern is set, and a reaction is set. By the time your're married 5 years, the PEA is gone so all you have left is how you feel about each other on a logical plane; but that feeling has been altered by reality and all those choices/reactions - on both sides. Now you two have a totally different opinion of each other, and there are no PEAs left to help you say 'oh what the heck let's have fun I love you.'

THAT is how marriages devolve and if you aren't educated/open enough to understand it, you just make it worse because by now, you BOTH feel hurt by the other but you're no longer on the same team; you're in your own corner, nursing your wounds, and blaming the other person for making you miserable.


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