# New here. Am I crazy?



## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

We used to have fun, laugh, talk, and enjoy doing things together and with the kids. The change has been so slow I only just realized how bad things are now. Our sex life is dead (he told me 6 months ago that he was no longer interested in sex with me because he had "been there, done that."). There is no affection (he has never been an affectionate type..most of the cuddles and hugs went along with the sex). We never talk. A few months ago we went out for dinner and I was straining to figure out what to say to him. He is angry, very angry, and bored with is job and his life. I edit what I say and do now in case he gets mad and blows up. The kids are tiptoeing around him now. It is worse on the nights when he drinks. I now think that he is depressed and needs help. Sometimes there is good reason to be annoyed or at the kids, but his reaction is so strong, out of balance with the situation.

There was a huge blowup on the weekend and I told him that he needs help. He agreed to counselling but now that the dust has settled he says he will "see someone eventually" and that a doctor can't help the fact that my teenage daughter now lives with us full time and we have lots of debt.

My question is - am I crazy? Away from him I know that our relationship never used to be like this, and that he is an unhappy and negative person now. I know I want better for me and for my children. But when I talk to him about it he seems so angry and defensive and he makes me feel I am overreacting. I am afraid to tell him what I really feel in case he gets mad and starts yelling and making a scene again.

Any voices of sanity out there?


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## fightforher (Dec 4, 2013)

No, you are not crazy. And you deserve to be treated better.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Ever look at him and say, "Honey, you're right."? And heres's our options....

-sacrifice every waking moment to obtain the elusive almighty dollar to dig us out of this hole we dug
-screw it, let's take a vacation to Jamaica, just you and me...
-let's forget about our troubles for one evening, make wild monkey seks and we'll have a meeting of the minds tomorrow at 6 pm.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I can't help you make any decisions, but there is one thing i CAN tell you: He has no idea you are as far gone as you are. As much of an ass as he's been acting, he has no idea you are about to check out.

You have to let him know how bad it is, and that's not going to be easy. My wife tried to let me know for 5 years or so. When I realized she was gone, I knew EXACTLY why. I heard her, but I didn't HEAR her.

I'm a changed man. Losing your soulmate will do that. But it's too late for me. I hope you can wake him up before it's too late for him.

Good luck.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How much does he drink?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I wouldn't be able to stay in a situation like that. You are walking on eggshells and are afraid to talk to him about anything. I can't imagine this living situation is good for your daughter too. Sounds like he is feeling sorry for himself, poor be, I'm broke, hate my job and my step daughter is living with us, too bad that's life and treating you like crap isn't going to help the situation. Maybe he thinks treating you like this will get you and your daughter to leave. I wouldn't stay where I wasn't wanted.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

lakergirl said:


> We used to have fun, laugh, talk, and enjoy doing things together and with the kids. The change has been so slow I only just realized how bad things are now. Our sex life is dead (he told me 6 months ago that he was no longer interested in sex with me because he had "been there, done that.").


I can't really go past this line right here.

It's time for divorce, RIGHT AWAY!

It's unfixable if above is true (unless he was just spewing BS in the heat of the moment).

Confirm this. Without intimacy, desire to make love to each other......there is no marriage. Ok fine, you can have your marriage but it's not going to last.

Also, those are the words of a man that already went and got some from someone else. I would ask him for phone/account passwords etc and expect it to be provided right there and then. If he refuses, you got your answer, he is hiding something......but based on his communications, I would assume that is already true.

DO NOT consider kids when making this decision. They will be fine as long as you 2 remain in their life. Remember, being in unhealthy/bad marriage = teaching your kids "what relationship is"........they will follow your lead (read: it's BAD to stay in this relationship for your kids as well).

Good luck


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## White.Rabbit (Feb 24, 2014)

Somehow you need to take matters into your own hands and this may require shock tactics if he won't listen. As scary as it might be, an ultimatum may be needed, which might need some careful planning.

If I may link: Alcohol misuse - Treatment - NHS Choices However I can't help feeling that this is a symptom, rather than the cause, of a far deeper issue.

My ex had addictive issues and ended up in *MachoMcCoy's* boat. Nearly 10 months later the estranged Mr Rabbit is still in a state of disbelief over my departure, because he claims he didn't see it coming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

lakergirl said:


> We used to have fun, laugh, talk, and enjoy doing things together and with the kids. The change has been so slow I only just realized how bad things are now. Our sex life is dead (he told me 6 months ago that he was no longer interested in sex with me because he had "been there, done that."). There is no affection (he has never been an affectionate type..most of the cuddles and hugs went along with the sex). We never talk. A few months ago we went out for dinner and I was straining to figure out what to say to him. He is angry, very angry, and bored with is job and his life. I edit what I say and do now in case he gets mad and blows up. The kids are tiptoeing around him now. It is worse on the nights when he drinks. I now think that he is depressed and needs help. Sometimes there is good reason to be annoyed or at the kids, but his reaction is so strong, out of balance with the situation.
> 
> There was a huge blowup on the weekend and I told him that he needs help. He agreed to counselling but now that the dust has settled he says he will "see someone eventually" and that a doctor can't help the fact that my teenage daughter now lives with us full time and we have lots of debt.
> 
> ...


It could be as simple as he is drinking and focusing on life from a negative viewpoint. This is correctable.

I'm not sure how we get our spouse to see this.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

White.Rabbit said:


> Nearly 10 months later the estranged Mr Rabbit is still in a state of disbelief over my departure, because he claims he didn't see it coming.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_CLAIMS_ he didn't see it coming? Sounds like you don't believe him. I can guarantee he' didn't.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It could be as simple as he is drinking and focusing on life from a negative viewpoint. This is correctable.
> 
> I'm not sure how we get our spouse to see this.


Real drinkers fight alot and get angry. They tend to focus on negative issues, rehash things they are angry about, it's a downward spiral over time.

They my be irritiable, stubborn, just plain a-holes.


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I can't help you make any decisions, but there is one thing i CAN tell you: He has no idea you are as far gone as you are. As much of an ass as he's been acting, he has no idea you are about to check out.
> 
> You have to let him know how bad it is, and that's not going to be easy. My wife tried to let me know for 5 years or so. When I realized she was gone, I knew EXACTLY why. I heard her, but I didn't HEAR her.
> 
> ...


Any advice on how to wake him up? I told him it isn't fun to see him miserable and he can't be enjoying it either. He is such a state of negativity in his head he doesn't seem to be making the effort. He says he wants to get healthier, lose weight etc but then he skips the gym and eats the cookies I bought for the children. I can see he is in such an unhealthy state (physically & emotionally) and I really don't know how to help him. What would have worked with you??


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> How much does he drink?


He goes days without drinking, but when he starts he usually drinks too much. I can happily enjoy a glass of wine with dinner and then be done. He will finish the whole bottle and open another one, drinking alone. A few years back that was the only time he would be affectionate, and/or initiate sex. Which of course never turned out well because he couldn't perform. We once had a big scene because he was loud and sloppy drunk, wanting sex, while the kids were still awake and walking around and would have been aware of what was happening. He was so mad that I said it wasn't a good time for it. Now he just gets more quiet and withdrawn when he drinks. For a few years he has been saying he wants to stop.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

clinical depression is often a perpetual condition since the afflicted don't have the strength to go get the help/meds/therapy needed to get better

you are basically at a point where you have to make it known that it changes and gets treatment or else you will not be around to suffer from it


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lakergirl said:


> He goes days without drinking, but when he starts he usually drinks too much. I can happily enjoy a glass of wine with dinner and then be done. He will finish the whole bottle and open another one, drinking alone. A few years back that was the only time he would be affectionate, and/or initiate sex. Which of course never turned out well because he couldn't perform. We once had a big scene because he was loud and sloppy drunk, wanting sex, while the kids were still awake and walking around and would have been aware of what was happening. He was so mad that I said it wasn't a good time for it. Now he just gets more quiet and withdrawn when he drinks. For a few years he has been saying he wants to stop.


since he goes days without drinking it's most likely a scenario where he is self-medicating, drinking to escape and feel better (which is futile since alcohol is a depressant and makes it worse)


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

DoF said:


> I can't really go past this line right here.
> 
> It's time for divorce, RIGHT AWAY!
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. It has been about 7 months now and those words still ring in my head. It was such a shock I couldn't believe it. It made me realize that all those times I initiated sex and got a rather, um, soft response from him it wasn't because he was tired, or not in the mood. He just isn't attracted to me anymore. I would be ok with that if all the other aspects of our life were strong - we still laughed together, cuddled and showed affection to one another. But every good element of our marriage has drifted away and I am only just realizing it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

lakergirl said:


> I can see he is in such an unhealthy state (physically & emotionally) and I really don't know how to help him. What would have worked with you??



I don't know. That's where my walk-away-wife expertise ends. If I could tell you, you wouldn't need me here. You'd just need to buy my book that I write when I finally figure it all out.

I had to find out my wife was gone. It was one HORRIBLE instance in my life where my wife made one simple comment. 6 months of reading these forums to find out what the heck was going on became terribly clear in that one moment. It all clicked together: My wife is gone. She's not coming back. And it is ALL MY FAULT.

My world crashed. I changed IMMEDIATELY. No freakin' WAY was I EVER going to be a person that could do that to someone I love. Let my kids see me be that kind of person. 

You need to make him THINK you're gone. I've always recommended a suitcase and a note that explaining why it's over now. He can read up if he wants to know why (he already does, but putting it in writing makes it clear and he can read that list over and over). Stay at a friends while he thinks you're looking for an apartment.

In short, crash his world. And leave it in a shambles for a couple of months. Only then will you even HINT that you MAY come back if he changes.

No little endeavor. It will be hard and a lot of work. Who he is now is the result of decades of living his life one way. You have to tear down his world before he can rebuild it. I got my message loud and clear. But it was too late. I'm a new man today. And my relationship with my kids is better than ever. I'm a new dad to them. But my wife is gone. My marriage is gone.

And it was all my fault.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

lakergirl said:


> Any advice on how to wake him up? I told him it isn't fun to see him miserable and he can't be enjoying it either. He is such a state of negativity in his head he doesn't seem to be making the effort. He says he wants to get healthier, lose weight etc but then he skips the gym and eats the cookies I bought for the children. I can see he is in such an unhealthy state (physically & emotionally) and *I really don't know how to help him*. What would have worked with you??


See above in bold.

Something I've learned VERY early in life (teens/early 20s)with my drug addicts "friends" (and this is something that applies to ANYONE in ANY SITUATION).

You cannot help someone that is not willing to help themselves.

Most people know and talk about how to fix things or what to do "right"......it's the ACTIONS that matter (not the words).

So next time your husband talks about alcohol or getting healthy, tell him that you have heard this before, you are looking for ACTIONS.

Also, you should never EVER be afraid to talk to your husband about ANYTHING.

You need to sit him down, and confront him in a healthy/adult manner. Set some fighting rules before you do so, and tell him that when you 2 talk and have a adult conversations there is absolutely no anger, no defensiveness, name calling (or whatever else you 2 decide on). FOLLOW THAT, if it's broken, come back to the table when things are back to normal.

what I'm trying to tell you is that you need to tell him that his words told you that this marriage is over. To top things off, he is NOT getting healthier and his alcohol is REALLY effecting the marriage. Tell him you are considering divorce if nothing changes SOON.

He does deserve a fair warning, give it to him. I will write off what he said about "I've been there" as some drunk/spewing talk......


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening lakergirl
You are not crazy - there is a real and serious problem here, and it sounds like a miserable situation.

You need to think carefully about what has happened - there may be lots of clues that aren't in your original post. Is there a root cause to all these problems. It almost certainly isn't your fault but its worth thinking about ways you might fix it. Some possible causes to think about:

Is he clinically depressed - by which I mean is he depressed / unhappy even when there is no reason?

Is he an alcoholic (or other substance abuse)? Might he be drinking without your knowing it.

Is is job / financial problems the issue? Sometimes people let problems at work affect the rest of their lives.


Is sex / intimacy the root cause - for many people these are tied together so give the bad state of your sex life, I'm not surprised other intimacy is gone. Are there things he wants in bed that you don't want to do (I'm NOT saying it is your fault, just trying to understand). Is he bored with sex because he wants something different? When you do have sex does does he care about your enjoyment in bed?

If he sometimes has ED, could that be affecting his self worth, sex life and everything else? Some men are extremely sensitive about this. 

Doe he have, or think he has other health issues? Chest pains (probably indigestion or stress) that he thinks are heart problems but is too frightened to see a doctor?

There may be many other possible causes. You shouldn't live like this, and in the end divorce may be the only answer, but its worth some very careful thought to see if you can understand what is going on.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

DoF said:


> ..you is that you need to *tell him* that his words told you that this marriage is over. To top things off, he is NOT getting healthier and his alcohol is REALLY effecting the marriage. *Tell him* you are considering divorce if nothing changes SOON.


I can GUARANTEE she has already *told him*. Telling people like this doesn't do a damn thing. She needs to SHOW him. 

You have to scare the **** out of him. It worked on me. But I guess I'm just one poster...


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I think you should arrange for your daughter to spend the night at a friend's house in case the conversation gets heated or teary/emotional and you have to lay it on the line. Say what you have to say and then silence. Listen. 

"Hon, I love you and because of that it really pains me to see you SO negative and unhappy and it flows over into every aspect of our life. I can't make you do anything but I need you to get to the bottom of it. You need to make an appointment with your physician for a physical and do what the doctor says to get and stay healthy and you need to make an appointment with a counselor and see one on a regular basis for a while. If you aren't willing to do these things, I can only assume you don't care about our marriage and we will need to separate. I can't live in a state of limbo waiting to see if this gets better on it's own so you need to decide now how we are going to proceed but I hope you care enough about us to be willing to get help and if you do, I'll be happy to be supportive of your efforts in every way I can."

He may break down and cry, he may get angry, he may make excuses. But you will KNOW. Not knowing is the hardest part. And if he makes excuses you simply ask if he wants this marriage to work or ask if he loves you. Because all of those issues you have listed are really just symptoms of a problem.

The problem could be he has low testosterone which makes him feel sluggish, non-sexual and bad about himself and then he medicates with food and alcohol. He may have an alcohol problem that he struggles with and gets irritable and sullen when he doesn't drink. He may have depression which makes everything seem overwhelming. But all of those can be addressed with exercise, medication, counseling, etc. 

The only thing that can't be fixed is if he just doesn't love you and feels trapped by you, debt, job, etc. and is angry and depressed about it. In that case everyone will be happier if you divorce.

And if he says no or gets angry - anything besides agreeing to get help - then start talking about the logistics of separation, or if you need to get a little space for you and your thoughts, leave for a bit. One thing most men here agree on is they didn't make serious changes until they realized "oh sh!t, she isn't bluffing!"

Regardless of the outcome of the conversation you'll be glad to have that behind you and for your daughter to not be around.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

lakergirl said:


> I now think that he is depressed and needs help.


I think he is depressed. As others have said though you can't solve that for him by yourself. He needs to agree to get help. You have every right to decide to move on if he refuses to get help. 

Often times people in his situation need a wakeup call to take action. Separating may be that wakeup call for him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lakergirl said:


> We used to have fun, laugh, talk, and enjoy doing things together and with the kids. The change has been so slow I only just realized how bad things are now. Our sex life is dead (he told me 6 months ago that he was no longer interested in sex with me because he had "been there, done that."). There is no affection (he has never been an affectionate type..most of the cuddles and hugs went along with the sex). We never talk. A few months ago we went out for dinner and I was straining to figure out what to say to him. He is angry, very angry, and bored with is job and his life. I edit what I say and do now in case he gets mad and blows up. The kids are tiptoeing around him now. It is worse on the nights when he drinks. I now think that he is depressed and needs help. Sometimes there is good reason to be annoyed or at the kids, but his reaction is so strong, out of balance with the situation.
> 
> There was a huge blowup on the weekend and I told him that he needs help. He agreed to counselling but now that the dust has settled he says he will "see someone eventually" and that a doctor can't help the fact that my teenage daughter now lives with us full time and we have lots of debt.
> 
> ...


I was married to someone just like this. I divorced someone just like this. Slight difference being that we didnt have much happy time even in the beginning. I did all the things you say here, the tiptoeing around, the editing of what you say. Mine drank alone too, many nights. We had no marriage, I was miserable. I told him when I started thinking of separation...I was told its not that bad. I fired many warning shots over the bow, only to have them ignored time and again. So yeah, he lost his mind when I told him I was moving out and had filed for divorce. I. WAS. DONE. He did get on antidepressants for a time, after we split, after me telling him time and again that I thought he needed help. And they did help. He of course stopped taking them. He has never really changed at all, its pretty sad. The difference is that I dont have to live with it any more.


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> I was miserable. I told him when I started thinking of separation...I was told its not that bad.


This is where we are at now. In the scene on the weekend I honestly thought he was going to grab or push my oldest daughter (the younger one was not in the room). I told him I don't ever want to feel like that again, and that he needs to get help to deal with his anger. His response is "you are making me out to be an ass and I am trying to be supportive." He may think he is being supportive and I have to remind myself that what matters most is how I am feeling about things. The fact is that I receive no affection, no intimacy, I hide things from him because I fear his anger. How long and the reasons why we are in this place now doesn't seem to matter as much as realizing that here we are. I can't imagine he is any happier in this marriage than I am. 

He continues to blame my oldest daughter for problems and not to say that teenagers can't be a source of stress, but he is being very immature and I often feel that he is another child in the house whom I have to care for.

This isn't what I signed up for. I wanted a partner, not this. It has been years in the making I can't believe I am just realizing it now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lakergirl said:


> This is where we are at now. In the scene on the weekend I honestly thought he was going to grab or push my oldest daughter (the younger one was not in the room). I told him I don't ever want to feel like that again, and that he needs to get help to deal with his anger. His response is "you are making me out to be an ass and I am trying to be supportive." He may think he is being supportive and I have to remind myself that what matters most is how I am feeling about things. The fact is that I receive no affection, no intimacy, I hide things from him because I fear his anger. How long and the reasons why we are in this place now doesn't seem to matter as much as realizing that here we are. I can't imagine he is any happier in this marriage than I am.
> 
> He continues to blame my oldest daughter for problems and not to say that teenagers can't be a source of stress, but he is being very immature and I often feel that he is another child in the house whom I have to care for.
> 
> This isn't what I signed up for. I wanted a partner, not this. It has been years in the making I can't believe I am just realizing it now.


Your daughter does not deserve that bullsh!t. Its your job to protect her, so my suggestion is going to be to start making your exit plan.

Feel free to PM me if you like.


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

I think what he needs is a real kick in the butt. Meaning that you have to tell him that you are not prepared to go on like this. I agree with the suggestion that you should try and get the kids out of the way for a day and maybe have the discussion not at home but at a neutral place, like the park, bush, beach, etc or maybe a cafe. 

I would also suggest that you tell him, if you agree with it, that he is not a bad person, but maybe you are just not meant for each other. I will help reduce his anger and defensiveness to that he's not just the bad guy getting all the blame. 

I have a friend who's partner was always miserable, depressed, angry, aggressive (verbal only). She left him, he went through a hard time for a while, got his act together and is now the nicest and funniest person. 

You H needs a wake up call where he realises he will lose you if he doesn't get his act together. You on the other hand have to be prepared to leave him. 

My wife and I are going through a very rough patch at the moment which may well be the end of our relationship. I might eventually post the story. Anyway, a (small) part of the issue was that I was angry and stressed about work and this always spills into family live. I just wasn't happy, was on edge and needed to vent my anger all the time. I could see that I didn't want to go on like this and resigned. Now I don't have a boss at all because I started my own business. The best thing that has happened in a long time. 

My point is, is there an option for your H to change jobs? This might resolve some of his anger and depression. However, I realise from your posts that he's not driven enough to really make a change. Again, that's how you can help him change, by putting your foot down and telling him that you are not prepared to go on like this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lakergirl,

There's some additional info that might help.

How long have you been married to him?

How many children live at home with you and your husband?

What are the ages of the children? Is he their father?

Do you have a job?


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> lakergirl,
> 
> There's some additional info that might help.
> 
> ...


11 years. 2 kids at home. Youngest (8yrs old) is ours. Teenager is mine, living full time with us after her father bailed as soon as she became a teenager. I work full time in a higher profile position than his (which he is jealous of...its also the position I had when we met & was one of the things he initially loved about me) and I also do everything in the house - meal planning, groceries, cooking, dishes, laundry, scheduling dentist/medical appointments for the kids, picking them up from school, homework, paying the household bills, etc etc etc. For the past few years he sits on the couch checking sports scores and acts like a hero when he remembers to wash the breakfast dishes (this is the breakfast I make for him, BTW)


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

TheHappyGuy said:


> I think what he needs is a real kick in the butt. Meaning that you have to tell him that you are not prepared to go on like this. ....
> I would also suggest that you tell him, if you agree with it, that he is not a bad person....My point is, is there an option for your H to change jobs? This might resolve some of his anger and depression. However, I realise from your posts that he's not driven enough to really make a change. Again, that's how you can help him change, by putting your foot down and telling him that you are not prepared to go on like this.


He has often talked about changing jobs but done very little to make it happen. Overall he has a hard time getting off the couch to do anything. He is very disengaged with his life and our family (I am not realizing) I think a clinical depression is at the root of many of the issues (like the ED and the binge drinking) but he is reluctant to admit this and get help. Now he is saying "I'll work on some things and get help in the New Year".

I am hoping that in the next few days what I am saying will sink in and he will go get help and not wait. 

In the summer he was away for a week and I didn't miss him at all. The house was cleaner, quieter, and less stressful. This makes me sad.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lakergirl said:


> 11 years. 2 kids at home. Youngest (8yrs old) is ours. Teenager is mine, living full time with us after her father bailed as soon as she became a teenager. I work full time in a higher profile position than his (which he is jealous of...its also the position I had when we met & was one of the things he initially loved about me) and I also do everything in the house - meal planning, groceries, cooking, dishes, laundry, scheduling dentist/medical appointments for the kids, picking them up from school, homework, paying the household bills, etc etc etc. For the past few years he sits on the couch checking sports scores and acts like a hero when he remembers to wash the breakfast dishes (this is the breakfast I make for him, BTW)


With the additional information, I think that the only way you will impress on him that he has to make changes is for you to leave him. And then you have to stick to a plan that you do not go back with him until he's been sober for at least a year and has cleaned up his act, been in counseling, etc. Anything less than that kind of shock and presser will not even get his attention.

By you staying with him and allowing this behavior or years, have taught him that it's ok. That while you make some noise about it you will not leave and will continue to carry him. In a way you have enabled him to become dysfunctional. Marriage is a dance. This is the dance that the two of you have choreographed. 

You might want to read the book "Codependent No More". Codependency is when you put the emotional needs of another person ahead of your own. It's actually a very natural reaction to a very bad situation. Humans are programmed to make the family work no matter how dysfunctional it is. But he's pulling you and your children down and you are allowing this.

I've been through something similar. As long as you continue to live with him and basically take care of 99% of it all, he has no reason whatsoever to shape up. He needs a kick in the gut. Then he might decide to change into someone who you can live with. Or he might decide not to. 

You, of course, have no control over what he does. You only have control over your own actions. 

So those are the actions you need to focus on. Stop focusing on him.


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

I wholeheartedly agree with EleGirl and I think you know it yourself: There is no point in carrying on like this. Don't wait till the new year to see if he will act on his promise or not. 

As I see it, you've go a job and you've been doing everything yourself for the family and household, why would you put up with him sitting on the couch any longer? I'm not advocating separation, just a wake up call for him. Once you lay down the law, you can decide whether him changing is good enough reason to stay or whether you'd prefer to be on your own and/or eventually with someone else. 

His behaviour is disrespectful towards you and your kids and he's not being a good role model. I can understand that you are not attracted to him anymore. He needs to get that it is within his power to change and unfortunately the only way is for you to tell him how you feel and act on it.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> You need to make him THINK you're gone. I've always recommended a suitcase and a note that explaining why it's over now. He can read up if he wants to know why (he already does, but putting it in writing makes it clear and he can read that list over and over). Stay at a friends while he thinks you're looking for an apartment.
> 
> In short, crash his world. And leave it in a shambles for a couple of months. Only then will you even HINT that you MAY come back if he changes.


* Amen:smthumbup:*


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read up on the 180.

You need to get ready to split.

He needs a wake up call.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

One thing that really helped me make that break was my daughter.

I looked at her (4 at the time) and knew the longer I stayed the more she would see me being put down, called names and generally mistreated and her impression of a woman's role in marriage would be forever impacted by that. I imagined what HER choices would be and if it was her instead of me in that type of marriage how my heart would break for her and I would want her to leave. 

And then the most amazing realization was that, even though it's normal to want your kids to have it better than you, I was putting up with something that I found unacceptable for my child and others. Then I steeled up and thought I'm just as important as she is - this is not OK for me, either!

So think of the example you are setting for your daughter. Yes, his behavior towards both of you is bad. Even worse is imagining HER living that life. If you can't leave for you, leave for her. (And your son who needs to know he can't be that kind of man.)


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

lakergirl said:


> 11 years. 2 kids at home. Youngest (8yrs old) is ours. Teenager is mine, living full time with us after her father bailed as soon as she became a teenager. I work full time in a higher profile position than his (which he is jealous of...its also the position I had when we met & was one of the things he initially loved about me) and I also do everything in the house - meal planning, groceries, cooking, dishes, laundry, scheduling dentist/medical appointments for the kids, picking them up from school, homework, paying the household bills, etc etc etc. For the past few years he sits on the couch checking sports scores and acts like a hero when he remembers to wash the breakfast dishes (this is the breakfast I make for him, BTW)


I hope you realize you have enabled him to be this person. This is as much of a problem with your as it is with him!

How do you put up with that? Stop doing these things (and just do 50%) and expect him to cover his end.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Happy hormones were brought up.

Get a bloodtest CBC and male hormone panel. Unfortunately, doctors know nearly nothing about hormones. Www.lef. Org. (Life Extension Foundation) Has a lot of research for free on this and many health issues.

For men, Total Testosterone should be between 700-900
Free T should be 20-25
Estrodoil 20-30

Doctors use the range printed on the blood test itself. Those are simply wrong. They will always say normal range. So please find a doctor who knows and understands hormones. 

Testosterone makes a man a man. Not just. Sex. No different than Estrogen for women.

If his levels are out of balance, his Estrodoil higher then 30, his mood, energy and motivation may change. Weight gain at the belly. All are signs. T below 550 can bring on many many significant health issues over time.

Also, head to the gym together. Getting into a healthy habit is beneficial to both of you.


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## lakergirl (Oct 22, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Testosterone makes a man a man. Not just. Sex. No different than Estrogen for women.
> Also, head to the gym together. Getting into a healthy habit is beneficial to both of you.


I agree. I've been mentioning testosterone for 2 years. Last time he went to the doctor he never went to the lab to get the bloodwork done. He joined a gym but doesn't go. I see that I have enabled his behaviour but that doesn't preclude him from taking responsibility himself. I think the root of things is a real depression and he needs a proper assessment. I believe with meds, counselling, better sleep, better diet, and some exercise he will feel 99% better and be more like the man I married. I can't do these things for him - I take good care of myself and can only support and encourage him in his choices.

For now he is choosing to check sports scores instead of going to the gym and buy a bag of chips instead of eating the healthy food I buy for the house.

For now he blames me and my daughter for making him out to be the bad guy instead of taking any responsibility for his own actions.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

lakergirl said:


> I agree. I've been mentioning testosterone for 2 years. Last time he went to the doctor he never went to the lab to get the bloodwork done. He joined a gym but doesn't go. I see that I have enabled his behaviour but that doesn't preclude him from taking responsibility himself. I think the root of things is a real depression and he needs a proper assessment. I believe with meds, counselling, better sleep, better diet, and some exercise he will feel 99% better and be more like the man I married. I can't do these things for him - I take good care of myself and can only support and encourage him in his choices.
> 
> For now he is choosing to check sports scores instead of going to the gym and buy a bag of chips instead of eating the healthy food I buy for the house.
> 
> For now he blames me and my daughter for making him out to be the bad guy instead of taking any responsibility for his own actions.


Sounds like the moodiness and laziness fog of low T. I am not a doctor but seems like it.

Exercise is the heart of the issue. More important than improving diet. He also needs to know how to use weights at the gym. A trainer can put him through the ropes and set up a regime suitable for him. He needs to use free weights, not machines. And squats. Without squats, he's not working out. Pull-ups will develop his pretty muscles. That will need work too.m. Exercise will also up his hormones a bit. Getting him out of the pits to a decent level of performance is the challenge. 

Once he works out 3 times a week regularly he will improve his outlook. Just hard to start it going. Then he'll enjoy the gym. And you'll enjoy him. 

I have done this myself and results are proven. The gym/exercise matters to a man.

*Everyone says they don't have any time to workout. Funny thing is, when you do workout, everything else finds time anyway.


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