# Gut feeling, My wife might be cheating



## Scuba_Steve

We have been together for 8 married for 5 years with a two-year-old beautiful daughter. We occasionally argue but mostly for minor stuffs, nothing crazy that can’t be fixed. For the most part I thought we were happily married. But my wife has been acting strange for the last 5 months. A few things she done have lead me to believe she might be having an affair with our boss. My wife will get home from work she would always talk about her boss. Any ways at first, I didn't mind because she would tell me about work related stuff and that her boss is cool, but then she started talking about him a little too much every day. I start thinking maybe she is attracted to him and maybe thinking of an affair having a with him because she would only talk about him and not about any of her other male co-workers. What really makes me think that is more she talked about him, his personal life would come, and she would talk about his tattoos (she hates tattoos) I ask her how she knows about his tattoos some aren’t even visible. She seen that it bothered me and that I started to get suspicious about it, so she stops talking about him every day. She done other things that make she’s doing something shady. 

About two weeks ago I found out that she had created a new email account but only accessed it from her work computer.

She been coming home late with lame excuse as to why. 

Her Phone rings but she won’t answer it around me and it never leaves her side 

She started going out with the girls a lot recently although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them” called her out on that since we work for same company. She gave some bs excuse, so I dropped it. 

She goes to the store or to do an errand she takes longer than usual. This past Saturday she went grocery shopping she left around 10 in morning and didn’t return till 6. 

The other night she came home in a bad mood. Awhile she was in the kitchen I came up from behind to hug her. She pushed me off her saying I only wanted sex from her. She stormed out the house and I asked her where she was going, and she said nowhere. She didn't come back till 2 hours later. 

There’s more but you guys get the picture. At this point I’m at a loss. I don’t think she would cheat on me because I know she loves me, but I have this gut feeling that something isn’t right with her. I just don't have any proof


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Sorry you are here. The usual red flags are popping up all over your post. 

Yes, you are right, Something is not right. 

Install a voice activated recorder in her vehicle. Set up a GPS hidden in her car too. 

What ever you learn don't confront until you get your ducks in a row.


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## RWB

Red Flags waving like halftime on a Friday night football game.

She is Cheating. 

"DO NOT CONFRONT WITHOUT POSITIVE PROOF". 

Other will drop in here and give you very easy concrete directions.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

This post will help you get started collecting evidence. Stay calm, stay focused. Don't tip your hand! She will take the affair deep underground. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666

Workplace affairs are very difficult to catch but trust us, she will make mistakes and you will have undeniable evidence. 

Make sure she cannot find you posting here like via a family PC.


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## Suspicious1

Need to start to be Mr.Spy man. Gotta play it cool thou, act as if every thing is honky dory, but watch her like a hawk!

Get her cell one night she comes home drunk and go through it. Get either Mr Fone yo get delete text and messages, or Mspy to key log, and see what's she up to remotely. Do research on both.

What gets me is you tried to hug her, and she says all you want is sex.... Sound like she's referring to someone else, and not you.

Have you seen the boss and her interact witg each other?
Have you heard any talk about the boss, his reputation, has he done tgis before with other lady workers, etc.

Keep a sharp eye out and good luck.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

Totally cheating.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I assume her phone is locked and she sleeps with it. Let us guess she did not do that before...

What type of code is it locked with.


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## ABHale

Just file for divorce. You know she is cheating. See a lawyer get everything ready then have her served at work. 

You know everyone at work knows as well right.


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## Evinrude58

I think she's just having a rough spell in life.

She loves you, and as you said-- she'd never cheat on you.

She's probably just stressed out. Sounds like your sex life isnt so great. When did the sex stop or go bad, or have a sudden increase and then go stale?

Well that's when she started cheating.


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## Scuba_Steve

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I assume her phone is locked and she sleeps with it. Let us guess she did not do that before...
> 
> What type of code is it locked with.


I'm hoping that was a lucky guess, she sleeps with it under her pillow.

6 digit iphone lock


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## stro

There are plenty of red flags there. I think your gut is right. We tend to talk about what’s on our hearts. And strangely married people will even talk excessively to their spouse about people they are crushing on. I think you should just continue acting as though all is well. Don’t say anything or let on that you are suspicious. I imagine if you can get access to her phone you can get a good idea as to the nature of their relationship. But if you put a VAR in her car you can probably get all the evidence you need. After reading through all these threads I have found that the car is the “office” of the unfaithful spouse. Have you begun to think about what you would do if she is cheating? Whether it’s reconcile or divorce. Might not be a bad idea to start putting plan together just in case. Especially since there is a child involved. Consider talking to a lawyer if you think you are headed down that path. When these things blow up they tend to do so quickly.


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## Scuba_Steve

Evinrude58 said:


> I think she's just having a rough spell in life.
> 
> She loves you, and as you said-- she'd never cheat on you.
> 
> She's probably just stressed out. Sounds like your sex life isnt so great. When did the sex stop or go bad, or have a sudden increase and then go stale?
> 
> Well that's when she started cheating.


In her defense she has lost both of her grandparents in the last 18 months. I can see it has had a negative effect on her.

Our sex life is kind of sporadic but this past December and January we probably had our best sex in a long tome.


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## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> I'm hoping that was a lucky guess, she sleeps with it under her pillow.
> 
> 6 digit iphone lock


Not a lucky guess.


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## Evinrude58

I've seen a LOT of threads which involved a spouse who was having an affair and it had started shortly after having lost someone close.

Based on what youve written, cheating is pretty much a given.

Acting distant, guarding phone, change in sex habits --either an increase or decrease....
Unexplained time..... classic symptoms.

What I don't understand is why you don't catch her using her phone, snatch it out of her hand, and change the password immediately and keep it until you know the truth one way or another?

You deserve to know what is going on, and as your wife, she ahouid not be harboring secrets from you. Yeah, she'll get pissed. But she will get over it unless she's cheating, which is pretty much guaranteed.


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## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> In her defense she has lost both of her grandparents in the last 18 months. I can see it has had a negative effect on her.
> 
> Our sex life is kind of sporadic but this past December and January we probably had our best sex in a long tome.


Guilt sex. I say she fell in love with her boss and believe he was in love with her. The “all you want is sex” was aimed at her boss. With her being upset I’m guessing she figured out that she was just a piece of ass to her boss.


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## ABHale

Read Found out V Day. It’s a thread in this section. It will help you understand.


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## Evinrude58

I'll bet she's been "shaving" more often, and if you looked, you'd find lingerie or panties that were new and that you've never seen her wear.
She's been dressing differently and going to the gym more often?

Sleeping withvpgone under her pillow? Geez, she might as well paint a scarlet letter on her forehead.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I'm hoping that was a lucky guess, she sleeps with it under her pillow.
> 
> 6 digit iphone lock


It is not a lucky guess. We read the same stories here on TAM over and over. And over again. 

Try and get online records of all the numbers she is using with that phone, Incoming/outgoing phone calls and texts. 

You need that code without her finding out you know the code. We all know she is probably hiding in the bathroom or somewhere in the house using that phone where you don't suspect. Consider installing wireless video cameras where you suspect. A pinhole camera in the ceiling of her car perhaps. Or a nanny cam. If you are discreet enough watch her when she unlocks phone. Be creative. 

Then middle of the night slip phone away from her. With the code you can data dump everything on there. The phone is the mother lode. She is locking it and she does not answer in your presence. That says it all. The phone may take more then one attempt to get everything. Consider installing spyware on phone, unless it is a company phone. Don't go there. 

The reason we are telling you this is as follows. Once you uncover proof of the affair stay quiet and continue to play dumb. See an attorney and inform attorney to prepare a divorce petition based on what you uncovered and your local laws. Once petition is ready have her served at work. Depending on local laws and what you attorney advises you may have her affair partner served as well on same day. On same day right after she is served you will also be informing her parents as well as closest friends. The guy she is hooking up with probably has a significant other, wife or GF. You will be informing her as well. Within minutes your wife will start blowing up your phone. Reply back that a suitcase with her cloths are on her way to her job and movers are moving her stuff into storage, one month paid up front. The kids and you stay in the house. 

Depending on local laws ( alimony) and your financial situation you may or may not want to inform her job, If he or she reports to the other they both will probably get fired.

The reason I am saying all of this is the only hope you have of saving your marriage is to blow up the affair on your terms. Once you blow up she may come back attempting reconciliation or she may be defiant. If she is defiant continue with divorce. If she begs for forgiveness start a new thread called "Should I take her back". Either way choice is yours.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> In her defense she has lost both of her grandparents in the last 18 months. I can see it has had a negative effect on her.
> 
> Our sex life is kind of sporadic but this past December and January we probably had our best sex in a long tome.


Some cheaters cut off sex, some ramp it up. Some waver in and out. Her rejection probably had more to do with not having douched his semen yet, having love ,marks on her body like bruises on her thighs or bite marks, etc. Or she at the moment did not want to cheat on her boyfriend. She is in 'love'. 

Understand this, cheaters lie through their teeth. They deceive those who trust them the most. Her lashing at you with nonsense out of nowhere is typical.


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## Malaise

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> This post will help you get started collecting evidence. Stay calm, stay focused. Don't tip your hand! She will take the affair deep underground.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666
> 
> Workplace affairs are very difficult to catch but trust us, she will make mistakes and you will have undeniable evidence.
> 
> Make sure she cannot find you posting here like via a family PC.


Keep your mouth closed and you eyes and eyes open. Play dumb. She may become complacent if she thinks you are oblivious to what's going on.

See the link above for ways to get proof.

Is it possible to have her followed when she goes out with the 'girls from work'

Taking 8 hours to shop for groceries. What did she say about that? I love the creative answers from cheaters.


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## BobSimmons

Scuba_Steve said:


> In her defense she has lost both of her grandparents in the last 18 months. I can see it has had a negative effect on her.
> 
> Our sex life is kind of sporadic but this past December and January we probably had our best sex in a long tome.


No. What are you doing making excuses for her? Isn't this why you're posting to strangers on an infidelity forum?

Please enlighten me how losing one's grandparents equates to talking about a boss, leaving to go somewhere and not coming back for hours?

First off, you two brought children into the world whom you are both responsible for, why are you not angry she's pulling these stunts, and I'm not even talking from a she might be banging someone stance, just strictly from she's a wife and if anything happened to you or the kids her whereabouts should be known!

If she's banging her boss or whomever else then you damn right should be angry, again with the passivity and aww shucks.

I assume wherever she's storming off and spending time, she magically vanishes through a portal? If not she takes some sort of transport or ride, you put a tracker into the car, you also put a VAR in there.

Finding out is easy if you truly want to find out, unless you're ok with a wife that regularly disappears and keeps going out with friends...but you'll have an excuse for that right?


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## Mr.Married

You already know the answer......you just haven't admitted it to yourself.


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## Primrose

Get access to your online account. 

If that doesn't work, demand she unlock her phone in front of you and immediately hand it over.

If she says no, there's your sign.

My fiance and I both have pass codes on our phones, but we also both know each other's. There's only one reason, and one reason alone, that a spouse will refuse to give you their pass code.


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## thedope

Mr.Married said:


> You already know the answer......you just haven't admitted it to yourself.


Yes, but he is close. Hence, him being in this forum.

Put a VAR ( voice activated recorder) in her car, put a GPS in her car, do some snooping.

She is 100% cheating. No one who isn't does those sort of behaviors. You really didn't even need anymore evidence because it's been confirmed through her behavior.


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## Scuba_Steve

I’ve started reading the standard evidence thread. I came up with a simple plan, that I’ve already started putting into play. I’ve brought 3 Sony VARs. I brought them off amazon, so I might get them Saturday. The plan is to put one in her car, another one in our bedroom or home office and the last one in office at work it shouldn’t be a problem since we work together different departments but same company. I also plan on buy a gps tracker. I haven’t been able to find a good one. I did set my old set up my old iphone recorder and set it up in our bedroom. She says she is staying home today. I will be back later with anything to report.


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## Chaparral

Good luck. The thing is, even if she isn’t cheating yet, which I have no doubt about, she will eventually if she continues to go out clubbing with the girls. I’m semi retired and all the women I have know except one has divorced their husband after they started going out with the girls. They always find someone they think is more attractive with their husband because they do not have to see bar guys in real life.

As someone that waited to marry until late I saw this first hand. Married women also take off their rings to fool guys that would not fool with a married woman.

You need to start making plans for when you find proof of her cheating.

Before you confront her, come here for advice on the proper steps. NEVER TELL HER HOW YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW. Simply tell her you know and what you have decided to do.

What is your companies policy on cheating? Have you talked to
anyone about him? Is she married? He may not be the one she is cheating with.


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## Adelais

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve started reading the standard evidence thread. I came up with a simple plan, that I’ve already started putting into play. I’ve brought 3 Sony VARs. I brought them off amazon, so I might get them Saturday. The plan is to put one in her car, another one in our bedroom or home office and the last one in office at work it shouldn’t be a problem since we work together different departments but same company. I also plan on buy a gps tracker. I haven’t been able to find a good one. I did set my old set up my old iphone recorder and set it up in our bedroom. She says she is staying home today. I will be back later with anything to report.


I hope all that proves that nothing is amiss. But sadly, after years of reading on TAM, it sounds like she is having an affair.


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## SentHereForAReason

Araucaria said:


> I hope all that proves that nothing is amiss. But sadly, after years of reading on TAM, it sounds like she is having an affair.


+1 on that comment. Like it's been said, the Red Flags are not only all there, they are moving about rapidly in the wind, right in front of his face


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## Talker67

wow, a lot of people advocating you divorce her on your gut hunch! 
Maybe that is a little premature! 
Is she still talking about her boss? Talking a lot about him, then suddenly stopping talking about him altogether is usually a sign they are doing the deed. Just talking about him all the time...maybe she is just fantasizing about him with no actual affair going on.

While a gut feeling is often right, it is not right ALL the time. Sometimes we just get paranoid.


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## Satya

If she's using a work computer to carry on an affair, you could simultaneously notify the CISO/IT department, HR, and company management to say that you think she is violating the computer use policy to carry on an affair on the company's time and dime.

They will put a litigation hold on her account and go through all of her email.

And, she could potentially lose her job if they found anything that violates policy.

I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.


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## ButtPunch

Can you look up the phone records online?


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## SentHereForAReason

Satya said:


> If she's using a work computer to carry on an affair, you could simultaneously notify the CISO/IT department, HR, and company management to say that you think she is violating the computer use policy to carry on an affair on the company's time and dime.
> 
> They will put a litigation hold on her account and go through all of her email.
> 
> And, she could potentially lose her job if they found anything that violates policy.
> 
> I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.


My wife was using her company phone, ipad, truck, you name it to conduct the affair, even taking him out to lunch and expensing. I wanted to badly get her away from the job so she could be away from him (customer) but lawyer said don't even think about it. She could get fired and then I would be stuck paying her alimony if they found out I was behind it.


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## thedope

Talker67 said:


> wow, a lot of people advocating you divorce her on your gut hunch!
> Maybe that is a little premature!
> Is she still talking about her boss? Talking a lot about him, then suddenly stopping talking about him altogether is usually a sign they are doing the deed. Just talking about him all the time...maybe she is just fantasizing about him with no actual affair going on.
> 
> While a gut feeling is often right, it is not right ALL the time. Sometimes we just get paranoid.


It isn't really a, "hunch". She is ignoring her relationship with him to spend time with girls. Go missing with no explanation, etc etc etc.

That and she is 100% cheating, literally it's the only logical explanation. Seriously, what more evidence do you need. Hiding phone, going missing, treating no him differently, refusal to say who she's going out with, time gaps, etc. Short of a cheater confessing I am not sure what else someone could do to show they are cheating. Sleep with the phone under pillow, oh wait she does that too.


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## thedope

ButtPunch said:


> Can you look up the phone records online?


Yes, this would be good. Sense he spent the money of the VAR he should not hint that he knows what's going on. Do not confront if your gathering evidence.


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## x598

more red flags here than a communist parade.

sorry bro.....your wife is totally cheating on you.

do your self a HUGE favor, don't justify, rationalize it, just go to war with her.

read the countless threads in this section. match up all the red flags and behaviors and you will see the light.

so much easier to see and understand when its happening to someone else and not you. your feeling for your wife cloud good judgment.


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## Sparta

Talker67 said:


> wow, a lot of people advocating you divorce her on your gut hunch!
> Maybe that is a little premature!
> Is she still talking about her boss? Talking a lot about him, then suddenly stopping talking about him altogether is usually a sign they are doing the deed. Just talking about him all the time...maybe she is just fantasizing about him with no actual affair going on.
> 
> While a gut feeling is often right, it is not right ALL the time. Sometimes we just get paranoid.


 You got to be kidding me she’s not only cheating she’s been getting plowed by him for sometime now. You think she staying home so she can watch TV. No she has a sex rendezvous set up with her boss, yes the boss that she’s been plowing for awhile now. This one is so easy we don’t even have to think about it.not.! Watch when he comes back with his next post, most likely he will come back to say either caught them, or has it confirmed that they are indeed having an affair. But doesn’t have the evidence to confront her yet...


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## Satya

stillfightingforus said:


> My wife was using her company phone, ipad, truck, you name it to conduct the affair, even taking him out to lunch and expensing. I wanted to badly get her away from the job so she could be away from him (customer) but lawyer said don't even think about it. She could get fired and then I would be stuck paying her alimony if they found out I was behind it.


There are ways you could alert security anonymously. The fact remains that if she's misusing company equipment it's very likely a violation of their policy, a policy that she most likely agreed to with a signature.
Her violating policy would not be your fault. But I see how it was a tough position to be in.


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## 3putt

Satya said:


> *I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows *and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.


That line sent a chill down my spine and made me laugh at the same time.


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## Adelais

Satya said:


> If she's using a work computer to carry on an affair, you could simultaneously notify the CISO/IT department, HR, and company management to say that you think she is violating the computer use policy to carry on an affair on the company's time and dime.
> 
> They will put a litigation hold on her account and go through all of her email.
> 
> And, she could potentially lose her job if they found anything that violates policy.
> 
> I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.


Don't say anything to her work until you are 100% sure she is having an affair and is using the work computer improperly.


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## VermiciousKnid

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve started reading the standard evidence thread. I came up with a simple plan, that I’ve already started putting into play. I’ve brought 3 Sony VARs. I brought them off amazon, so I might get them Saturday. The plan is to put one in her car, another one in our bedroom or home office and the last one in office at work it shouldn’t be a problem since we work together different departments but same company. I also plan on buy a gps tracker. I haven’t been able to find a good one. I did set my old set up my old iphone recorder and set it up in our bedroom. She says she is staying home today. I will be back later with anything to report.



Hate to chime in here as a lawyer but bugging someone in their office can get you tossed in jail. DO NOT put a VAR anywhere in her office. You could slip it into her work bag, purse, whatever but under no circumstances put it in company property like her desk.

One more thing to mention, earlier in your thread you said in her defense she lost two grandparents in the last 18 months. I wanted to make sure you understand that you can lose every family member you have in one day and that's still no defense for cheating and betraying your spouse.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve, when she comes home after disapeering for hours with no real explanation or her 'girls night out' and runs to the shower sneak in and grab her panties. Use a semen detection kit on them.


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## thedope

x598 said:


> more red flags here than a communist parade.
> 
> sorry bro.....your wife is totally cheating on you
> 
> read the countless threads in this section.
> 
> so much easier to see and understand when its happening to someone else and not you. your feeling for your wife cloud good judgment.


Good advice about not being able to see it happening to yourself. But this case is obvious to all. For the love of God man, this is beyond any doubt.

I'm glad he got some VARS. Use them and don't get caught. The car is usually a good spot under the seat and velcored in.


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## thedope

Can someone recommend a cheap good GPS tracker for him?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

The spammers are out in force today!

Mods?


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## snerg

Talker67 said:


> wow, a lot of people advocating you divorce her on your gut hunch!
> Maybe that is a little premature!
> Is she still talking about her boss? Talking a lot about him, then suddenly stopping talking about him altogether is usually a sign they are doing the deed. Just talking about him all the time...maybe she is just fantasizing about him with no actual affair going on.
> 
> While a gut feeling is often right, it is not right ALL the time. Sometimes we just get paranoid.


I can agree.

Except his descriptions of her actions are a little too spot on for following the old cheater script.

Sit and read enough of these threads and a pattern forms.
You can even begin to surmise what the next posting will be about.
Cheater are that predictable once the pattern emerges.


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## EleGirl

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> The spammers are out in force today!
> 
> Mods?


That does not let the mods know that there's a problem...lol

Instead use the report button (triangle with ! in it) at the bottom far left of the post and report the spam. That will send an email to every mod and administrator and let us know that there's an issue to address.

{ This is a public service announcement :nerd: }

:nerd:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

EleGirl said:


> That does not let the mods know that there's a problem...lol
> 
> Instead use the report button (triangle with ! in it) at the bottom far left of the post and report the spam. That will send an email to every mod and administrator and let us know that there's an issue to address.
> 
> { This is a public service announcement :nerd: }
> 
> :nerd:


Thanks,
Someone else clued me into what that little triangle is, so I'm all competent now.0

Y'all mods do a great job btw.


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## re16

Keep it real stealth and resist all temptation to confront.

This is the time to find out what is really happening. If you blow it, you may never know the real truth and it is hard to repair something when you don't know the full extent of what is wrong.

If she has Iphone, does she back it up to a computer? You can use Dr. Fone on a backup. (you can use the free version).

Running directly on the phone would require the passcode and a few hours.


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## VladDracul

Scuba_Steve said:


> I also plan on buy a gps tracker. I haven’t been able to find a good one.


https://www.whistle.com/

Got one on my red bone hound. It will put me within 10 ft of her anytime. Battery stays charged for days.


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## Thor

When she goes out with the girls is a good chance to catch her. Hire a PI, or you could rely on the GPS and VAR in her car. If you have a 100% trusted friend they could stake out wherever she goes. If she says she's going to a club, your friend could park outside before she gets there to see if she arrives, and if she does who she is with. Your friend could even go in to see what she's up to.

BTW, a phone under the pillow is irradiating her and you with microwaves! That is far too close for safety. I would ask her to put it at least 3 feet from the bed. This is true, but it also may provide you a chance to snoop on her phone if you ever get the passcode.

If she syncs her iphone to a computer, you can access her text messages and emails from the computer. Just don't add another device to her AppleID! An alert is sent to every device when a new device is added. But if she has an old iPad or laptop already on that AppleID you could use it to see her message traffic.

Good luck, I think you're in for very bad news. But the truth really does set you free. It is much better to know the truth than live like you are now.


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## Scuba_Steve

Satya said:


> If she's using a work computer to carry on an affair, you could simultaneously notify the CISO/IT department, HR, and company management to say that you think she is violating the computer use policy to carry on an affair on the company's time and dime.
> 
> They will put a litigation hold on her account and go through all of her email.
> 
> And, she could potentially lose her job if they found anything that violates policy.
> 
> I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.


I'm hesitant to do anything at work at this time for couple of reason, the two major reasons 1) Doing something at work could have a negative impact on my employment 2) I don’t want to come off as the crazy, controlling and jealous husband. Plus, I have nothing to show or prove she's cheating just my gut feeling.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

VermiciousKnid said:


> Hate to chime in here as a lawyer but bugging someone in their office can get you tossed in jail. DO NOT put a VAR anywhere in her office. You could slip it into her work bag, purse, whatever but under no circumstances put it in company property like her desk.
> 
> One more thing to mention, earlier in your thread you said in her defense she lost two grandparents in the last 18 months. I wanted to make sure you understand that you can lose every family member you have in one day and that's still no defense for cheating and betraying your spouse.


know trouble I could be in if someone finds out. I The VAR I found is a mini one about the size of a quarter. But your point is still valid it’s still risky. I haven't done anything yet and I still haven't received the VARs. I still have some figure it all and do it the right way.

I wasn't saying her grandparents death gave her a green light to cheat, I was only trying to provide context about what's been going on. Trust me there's no probable reason or explanation she can give me that makes cheating ok.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Well the iPhone I placed in our bedroom didn’t really come up with anything conclusive. It was mostly talk about her friends and stuff of that nature. The chance she did anything today are slim to none since she spent the day with our and her mother. 

On the other hand, I’ve come to realize chances are my wife is indeed cheating or at the very least has before cheated. She fits the description of a cheating wife to the tee, yet I still hope that she isn’t. A part me is sad, other part is angry at the fact she would even think about cheating on me. I’m not perfect but I’m a pretty good husband. Not too sound cocky but I’m attractive, of course I could lose a few pounds, I make good money, I try to spend as much time with her as possible and as a family. I make point to show her I still love her every day. Everything considered we have a pretty good life together.


----------



## Thor

Your gut feeling is actually the best statistical indicator she is cheating. If she isn't, there is something else amiss which is triggering your gut. When things don't make sense it is because you don't have all the information. Once you get the information it all falls into place. For me it was literally a sensation that all the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle had been floating about in front of me, but when the key piece became known then the pieces all fell into place in front of me.

The next sensation was lying in bed feeling like there was nothing but empty space below the bed all the way to the core of the planet. Everything I had believed and felt turned out to be wrong.

Just be prepared to feel like you've been run over by a train when/if you start getting confirmation of affairs. If you catch her on a VAR actually having sex, turn off the VAR and don't listen to it.

I am hoping you find out something different than she is cheating. So far it looks bad, but hope for the best while you search for the truth.


----------



## thedope

Scuba_Steve said:


> Satya said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she's using a work computer to carry on an affair, you could simultaneously notify the CISO/IT department, HR, and company management to say that you think she is violating the computer use policy to carry on an affair on the company's time and dime.
> 
> They will put a litigation hold on her account and go through all of her email.
> 
> And, she could potentially lose her job if they found anything that violates policy.
> 
> I'd have no problem doing the above myself, because a.) I'm the cruelest woman my husband knows and b.) I audit security and I know what an IT dept will do, can do, and has to legally do in some instances when these things are brought to their attention. The company cares more about misuse of resources and assets (equipment, time, and money) and the potential leakage of confidential data than the fact she might actually be cheating. But it'll certainly light a fire under her arse if nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hesitant to do anything at work at this time for couple of reason, the two major reasons 1) Doing something at work could have a negative impact on my employment 2) I don’t want to come off as the crazy, controlling and jealous husband. Plus, I have nothing to show or prove she's
> cheating just my gut feeling.
Click to expand...

Scubasteve gets a ton of credit for admitting his wife is likely having sex with someone else. That's a hard thing to accept.

I disagree that all you have is a gut feeling. Rarely will a cheating spouse admit to it. Short of a confession or a smoking gun (which is hard to come by), you have all the evidence you need. She is pretty much flaunting her affair in front of you at this point. To your credit you are not an idiot and you recognize that. 

But you did the right thing getting the VARs. I won't tell you what to do with them. But I would take the risk of using them if my wife was acting the way your wife is. Obviously if your trying to collect evidence play it cool don't accuse her, or act differently. It will just tip her off and make her really hide it.


----------



## thedope

The PI is a good idea if you can afford it and hide the fact you hired on. I'd try the VARs first.

Also any chance of logging on to the phone company website to view her call/text list. Don't tip her off by asking for the login information if you don't know it, because you are going to be using the VARs soon and you don't want that communication to stop.


----------



## TRy

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve brought 3 Sony VARs. I brought them off amazon, so I might get them Saturday. The plan is to put one in her car, another one in our bedroom or home office and the last one in office at work it shouldn’t be a problem since we work together different departments but same company.


 I am not a big VAR guy, but whatever you do, do not place one at work. The downside of getting caught doing it there, is not worth the upside.


----------



## x598

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well the iPhone I placed in our bedroom didn’t really come up with anything conclusive. It was mostly talk about her friends and stuff of that nature. The chance she did anything today are slim to none since she spent the day with our and her mother.
> 
> On the other hand, I’ve come to realize chances are my wife is indeed cheating or at the very least has before cheated. She fits the description of a cheating wife to the tee, yet I still hope that she isn’t. A part me is sad, other part is angry at the fact she would even think about cheating on me. I’m not perfect but I’m a pretty good husband. Not too sound cocky but I’m attractive, of course I could lose a few pounds, I make good money, I try to spend as much time with her as possible and as a family. I make point to show her I still love her every day. Everything considered we have a pretty good life together.


of she is/has cheated. everyone around here see's it.

and your story isn't unique. I had the "American dream" life....nice home, money to do whatever, two kids and a dog....we were the envy of most of our friends.

the problem was...for her, it wasn't enough. to much keeping up with the Jones' and playing "look at me" on social media......the affair was just a symptom of the broken person she was hiding inside.

your story is sadly all too common.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve started reading the standard evidence thread. I came up with a simple plan, that I’ve already started putting into play. I’ve brought 3 Sony VARs. I brought them off amazon, so I might get them Saturday. The plan is to put one in her car, another one in our bedroom or home office and the last one in office at work it shouldn’t be a problem since we work together different departments but same company. I also plan on buy a gps tracker. I haven’t been able to find a good one. I did set my old set up my old iphone recorder and set it up in our bedroom. She says she is staying home today. I will be back later with anything to report.


Use lithium batteries for long life or rechargeables to save $$$.

Read through @weightlifter’s “Standard Evidence Post” thread for instructions on VAR configuration and placement.

Also tagging @TaDor since he’s our current VAR guy.

Also search for any posts by @ScrambledEggs that mention “GPS”.

What kind of vehicle does your wife drive?

ETA: I see you’re already reading through WL’s thread. Good.


----------



## confusedalonemom

Trust your gut. Same thing happened to me when i first got married. My husband started calling a girl he worked with by her first name.. she was they only one he called by her first name. He slept with her. My gut was right. Stupid me...i forgive him ...think in my head well we were married young...

second gut feeling... i tried to ignore it. but when i came home from deployment and needed to use his phone guess what i found.... messages to a girl he knew in his home country.... love notes, a casual encounter ad, and tons of photos. never again will i ignore my gut. 

ask her about it. but have the proof so they know they are caught. I never thought he would cheat on me. he use to tell me how my first husband was crazy to let me go for someone else. in the end, turned out i fell for someone with a forked tongue who could lie to me with such ease.


----------



## mickybill

A couple things. First of all, grandparents die, the circle of life. Unless she was raised by them are super extraordinarily close it is sad but not earth shattering or surprising and certainly has nothing to do with her decision to cheat.

Secondly there are so many stories on this forum about (mostly women but some men) who "have it all". The nice house and car, the nice spouse, maybe boring after many years but stable, good kids, a career they enjoy or maybe time to volunteer. Often they are the couple who other couples envy.

For most people this would be great, maybe not 100% of perfect but a solid 80%. The self centered cheater wants the 80% and more. The the OM or OW only has to do the fun stuff like flirting, paying more attention, flattering, listening and screwing, which is maybe 35% of a real world relationship.

Add it up 80% + 35% is 115% ! Now that's more like it until it all crashes and the OM or OW is gone and the marriage is too. The cheater ends up with 40%. 

I'm glad I learned percentages in 4th grade.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well the iPhone I placed in our bedroom didn’t really come up with anything conclusive. It was mostly talk about her friends and stuff of that nature. The chance she did anything today are slim to none since she spent the day with our and her mother.
> 
> On the other hand, I’ve come to realize chances are my wife is indeed cheating or at the very least has before cheated. She fits the description of a cheating wife to the tee, yet I still hope that she isn’t. A part me is sad, other part is angry at the fact she would even think about cheating on me. I’m not perfect but I’m a pretty good husband. Not too sound cocky but I’m attractive, of course I could lose a few pounds, I make good money, I try to spend as much time with her as possible and as a family. I make point to show her I still love her every day. Everything considered we have a pretty good life together.


Cheaters cheat 'down' all the time. It is really bewildering how they torpedo thier marriages and why. 

It is normal to hope what is staring you in the face is not the worst possible explanation. Hence the need for absolute undeniable proof. 

Cheaters take advantage of trust, betraying those that trust them the most. Without absolute proof she will deflect, minimize, lie, blame shift, etc to explain away all the obvious behavior.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Re: grandparents passing.

Tough times don’t build character, they reveal it.

We will all face tougher things in life than the loss of grandparents. That’s setting the cheating threshold awful low there.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Hiring PI is a possibility, would rather wait and see what the VARs come up with first. Hiring a PI can cost you a fortune if you aren’t careful.

Yesterday morning I tried to log on her AT&T account view her call history online but no luck. I couldn’t figure out her password. I was able to set up the 3 VARs. One in our bedroom, one in our home office and the last one in her car as planned. I was still thinking about placing the mini VAR somewhere in her office. If she is cheating with her boss than the best way of find out is to place one in her office, but the risk is high.


----------



## Marc878

The phone bill is your best clue upfront if you can find the password. A lot of people keep them written down somewhere


----------



## Tatsuhiko

There is a pen-based VAR that some men have had success with, putting it in their wife's purse. This is risky, because if she's well-organized she'll recognize that she didn't put it in there.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

She does have it written down but on her phone. I have to find away to get my hands on her phone and break her code lock. The problem is it’s glued to her hand, it never leaves her sight.


----------



## bandit.45

Wait till she’s in the shower, grab the phone jump in your car and drive to a parking lot where you can go through it at your leisure.


----------



## manwithnoname

bandit.45 said:


> Wait till she’s in the shower, grab the phone jump in your car and drive to a parking lot where you can go through it at your leisure.


Probably takes it in the room with her, and locks the door.


----------



## bandit.45

manwithnoname said:


> Probably takes it in the room with her, and locks the door.


Privacy locks can usually be popped open with a pin or screwdriver.


----------



## re16

Scuba_Steve said:


> She does have it written down but on her phone. I have to find away to get my hands on her phone and break her code lock. The problem is it’s glued to her hand, it never leaves her sight.


Does she us the fingerprint login or the passcode. If she uses the passcode, one trick is to wipe it clean, she types it in and it leaves 6 smudges on the screen, distract her so she puts it down afterward.

Look at the phone in the right light angle and you can see what numbers were used. Then it is just a matter of figuring out the sequence.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

re16 said:


> Does she us the fingerprint login or the passcode. If she uses the passcode, one trick is to wipe it clean, she types it in and it leaves 6 smudges on the screen, distract her so she puts it down afterward.
> 
> Look at the phone in the right light angle and you can see what numbers were used. Then it is just a matter of figuring out the sequence.


Now if only there weren't one million (10^6) different ways to arrange a sequence of 6 digits... Let's hope there 6 smudges so it can be reduced to 720.


----------



## x598

the fact that she keeps her electronics on lock down and never out of site is a 95% indicator she is up to no good.


----------



## Sports Fan

Unfortunately i have a feeling this one will end in heartbreak. Her phone having a code that you don't know the pin too and the fact that its glued to her hip is not a good indicator. At the very least the VARS should pick up something quick. Give her plenty of space to talk. For the next couple of days make plans to go out with friends and spend a few hours out of the house. Tell her in advance about your plans. This will enable her to start plotting to call any potential boyfriend on the nights you are out with friends as she is surely going to be bored and cherishing the chance to talk to her boyfriend.


----------



## bandit.45

It will come out in the end. All he has to do is wait for her to slip up.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

They always slip up. One thing to do is act dumb clueless like you have no suspicions in the world. They get complacent and cut corners. Then wham.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

listened to the first recording from the VAR that was in her car, didn’t get much of anything. It was mostly her talking to her friends. She was making plans to go out with friends is weekend. I’ve planted the GPS tracker in her car. I should be able to follow her movements if she does go out this weekend. Besides that, not much has changed.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

bandit.45 said:


> It will come out in the end. All he has to do is wait for her to slip up.



That’s the problem, waiting is tearing me up inside. I don’t know that’s real anymore. Does she real mean it when

she says she loves me.

She says can’t picture her life without me.

She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.

The past Saturday we went out she told all that and more. She was a little drunk, but I used to be able to believe her without doubt even when she was a little drunk, now all I have is doubt. Part me wants to confront her now and get this over with, but I wouldn’t have any way of knowing what she tells me is true.


----------



## bandit.45

Scuba_Steve said:


> That’s the problem, waiting is tearing me up inside. I don’t know that’s real anymore. Does she real mean it when
> 
> she says she loves me.
> 
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> 
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.
> 
> The past Saturday we went out she told all that and more. She was a little drunk, but I used to be able to believe her without doubt even when she was a little drunk, now all I have is doubt. Part me wants to confront her now and get this over with, but I wouldn’t have any way of knowing what she tells me is true.


It sucks man, I know, but you have no choice but to be patient. Don't confront unless you have irrefutable evidence that you can slap down on the table and show her. Otherwise, she'll throw your accusations back in your face and you will have a worse problem than you do now. 

So you can't track her work phone, you can't access her mobile....

You may just have to bite the bullet and hire a P.I. Better to spend the money and find out yea or nay and put your mind at ease, than to do nothing and let your suspicions eat away at you until you are a smoldering wreck.


----------



## re16

Scuba_Steve said:


> Part me wants to confront her now and get this over with, but I wouldn’t have any way of knowing what she tells me is true.


Don't confront. You'll regret it for eternity if you end up staying together and will always be wondering what really happened. You will think you've moved on and then later (could be years) you'll be thinking through all the details again and wondering what actually happened.

You currently have the chance to find out who she really is, and maybe you'll find nothing, but that's doubtful. Stay calm and watch.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> That’s the problem, waiting is tearing me up inside. I don’t know that’s real anymore. Does she real mean it when
> 
> she says she loves me.
> 
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> 
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.
> 
> The past Saturday we went out she told all that and more. She was a little drunk, but I used to be able to believe her without doubt even when she was a little drunk, now all I have is doubt. Part me wants to confront her now and get this over with, but I wouldn’t have any way of knowing what she tells me is true.


Why would she bring this up? Was it random? Is your wife suspicious about your behavior? Or it just came pout randomly?


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> listened to the first recording from the VAR that was in her car, didn’t get much of anything. It was mostly her talking to her friends. *She was making plans to go out with friends is weekend. *I’ve planted the GPS tracker in her car. I should be able to follow her movements if she does go out this weekend. Besides that, not much has changed.


Either get the PI or have someone you trust and she doesn't know to go where she plans to be.


----------



## MovingForward

stro said:


> There are plenty of red flags there. I think your gut is right. *We tend to talk about what’s on our hearts. And strangely married people will even talk excessively to their spouse about people they are crushing on. I think you should just continue acting as though all is well. Don’t say anything or let on that you are suspicious.* I imagine if you can get access to her phone you can get a good idea as to the nature of their relationship. But if you put a VAR in her car you can probably get all the evidence you need. After reading through all these threads I have found that the car is the “office” of the unfaithful spouse. Have you begun to think about what you would do if she is cheating? Whether it’s reconcile or divorce. Might not be a bad idea to start putting plan together just in case. Especially since there is a child involved. Consider talking to a lawyer if you think you are headed down that path. When these things blow up they tend to do so quickly.


This how i found out, she talked about him all the time unknowingly and then started acting more and more shady.


----------



## x598

an easy litmus test........

let your phone battery run dead next time you two are together.

ask her to use her phone, you need to make an important call or whatever.

if she gives acts nervous, watches you like a hawk while you borrow her phone to make a call....well, there you go. she is hiding something.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

Scuba_Steve said:


> That’s the problem, waiting is tearing me up inside. I don’t know that’s real anymore. Does she real mean it when
> 
> she says she loves me.
> 
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> 
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.
> 
> The past Saturday we went out she told all that and more. She was a little drunk, but I used to be able to believe her without doubt even when she was a little drunk, now all I have is doubt. Part me wants to confront her now and get this over with, but I wouldn’t have any way of knowing what she tells me is true.


Actually drunk is good when you're trying to get to the truth. Alcohol and anger are amazing truth serums. We always advise our clients to make sure they record when their spouses are really drunk or really angry. You get a lot of truth in both situations.


----------



## Thor

Read the book "Spy the Lie". It teaches you how to spot indicators of deception. You need several indicators, and at least one of them very quickly after the stimulus. Even then it isn't perfect. The also teach you how to question somebody. This isn't like spotting microexpressions (what was that tv show?). You know her nervous signs and how she tends to react. Most people don't want to outright lie, so they will answer the question deceptively while trying to make it look innocent.

All of this adds up to good background knowledge for you. For example, she says she's going out with her girlfriends to a movie. So you naturally ask which movie, and how are they getting there? Are they going out afterwards? Drinking? Who will be driving and will they be stone sober? These are normal friendly questions but if she gives you a pile of indicators of deception (which are really indicators of anxiety), you will be alerted. If she gives off no indicators, you can relax.

My wife liked to deceive by omitting information. When confronted with a direct issue she would give off all kinds of indicators, like when the MC asked in the first session if there'd been any infidelity in the marriage. W clamped her mouth shut and her foot started wagging like a happy puppy!

It is an excellent book for anybody who wants to read people better for deception.


----------



## Bananapeel

Thor said:


> Read the book "Spy the Lie". It teaches you how to spot indicators of deception. You need several indicators, and at least one of them very quickly after the stimulus. Even then it isn't perfect. The also teach you how to question somebody. This isn't like spotting microexpressions (what was that tv show?). You know her nervous signs and how she tends to react. Most people don't want to outright lie, so they will answer the question deceptively while trying to make it look innocent.
> 
> All of this adds up to good background knowledge for you. For example, she says she's going out with her girlfriends to a movie. So you naturally ask which movie, and how are they getting there? Are they going out afterwards? Drinking? Who will be driving and will they be stone sober? These are normal friendly questions but if she gives you a pile of indicators of deception (which are really indicators of anxiety), you will be alerted. If she gives off no indicators, you can relax.
> 
> Or you could prompt with untruths. Like asking which route she drove and then asking if the "accident" there (of course this is made up) caused them to get to the movie late. Her facial expressions will give it away because she won't know how to answer.
> 
> My wife liked to deceive by omitting information. When confronted with a direct issue she would give off all kinds of indicators, like when the MC asked in the first session if there'd been any infidelity in the marriage. W clamped her mouth shut and her foot started wagging like a happy puppy!
> 
> It is an excellent book for anybody who wants to read people better for deception.


----------



## chillymorn69

She cheating and you know it.

Except peice of absolute mind. What good will it do to catch her ?


My personal opinion would to just go to her and say hey babe I just feel like out marriage has run its course let call it a day and part ways.

Then start working on unraveling the ball of twine called marriage. Stat being aloof.exercising, getting your ducks in a row, etc.

To much stress and lost time trying to catch her red handed.


----------



## jlg07

Scuba_Steve said:


> In her defense she has lost both of her grandparents in the last 18 months. I can see it has had a negative effect on her.
> 
> Our sex life is kind of sporadic but this past December and January we probably had our best sex in a long tome.


Losing her grandparents doesn't give her an excuse to cheat.


----------



## jlg07

Scuba_Steve said:


> On the other hand, I’ve come to realize chances are my wife is indeed cheating or at the very least has before cheated. She fits the description of a cheating wife to the tee, yet I still hope that she isn’t. A part me is sad, other part is angry at the fact she would even think about cheating on me. I’m not perfect but I’m a pretty good husband. Not too sound cocky but I’m attractive, of course I could lose a few pounds, I make good money, I try to spend as much time with her as possible and as a family. I make point to show her I still love her every day. Everything considered we have a pretty good life together.


Her cheating is 100% on HER, NOT you. You didn't drive her to cheat, were awful to cause her to cheat, etc.. SHE wanted to cheat because she is flawed. She isn't the person you thought you married.


----------



## weightlifter

VermiciousKnid said:


> Hate to chime in here as a lawyer but bugging someone in their office can get you tossed in jail. DO NOT put a VAR anywhere in her office. You could slip it into her work bag, purse, whatever but under no circumstances put it in company property like her desk.
> 
> One more thing to mention, earlier in your thread you said in her defense she lost two grandparents in the last 18 months. I wanted to make sure you understand that you can lose every family member you have in one day and that's still no defense for cheating and betraying your spouse.


1) DO NOT involve the company. DO NOT GET HER FIRED!!!!! If anything get her an increase in her pay. This is chess not checkers and alimony is brutal and now not tax deductible.
2) DO NOT DO ANYTHING USING COMPANY PROPERTY. Companies have unlimited lawyers to bury you even for minor things or even gray areas.
3) There is no such thing as 100% or 0%. Sorry folks Ive seen a few I was helping quietly in the background that were never threads that turned out to be bad things but not cheating. HOWEVER, OP, given your scenario, the probability that she is not cheating is less than 3%. Be prepared mentally for bad bad news.
4) If she asks what is wrong, you have a stomach bug
5) My gut is screaming she is partly onto you but not by methodology. DO NOT do any of the 20 questions stuff and stay low profile. My gut is very very accurate.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

She says you and the 2 year old are everything to her. With all due respect, she seems to spend a ton of time out at night— at best out with friends at worst out with her boss. That’s a lot of free time for a new mother.

Meanwhile, you are handcuffed at home watching the baby, while she is out. Hire a babysitter and follow her. Or hire a PI.

Really bad feeling here.


----------



## Hexagon

Scuba_Steve said:


> That’s the problem, waiting is tearing me up inside. I don’t know that’s real anymore. Does she real mean it when
> 
> she says she loves me.
> 
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> 
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.


My wife said this to me daily. Sometimes several times a day. Even the morning that I found out about her latest affair. 
These are the sweet little nothings that I heard daily.
Some time after the seperation she told me that, "there were some ****ed up things and we had problems".
Instead of hearing about those problems, I listened to those sweet nothings. 

In fact, my wife said the EXACT same things. All three of them. 
I don't want to be a doomsayer here but I'm gonna anyway. Two words come to mind, "bomb" and "shelter".
If I could go back and say a couple sentences to myself when I started to suspect or get that _hunch_ that something was off....
I'd tell myself, "Buckle up big boy. You're going for a ride".
Your story sounds too familiar to mine. 

Go look at my thread. Don't make my mistakes. 
Oh and buckle up.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I spent most of today listening to this pasts weeks VARs recordings. Only one conversation she had with a friend that was somewhat alarming, she mentioned how good another coworker looked. They both joked about how good or bad he might be in bed. It was all said in a joking manner. I don’t believe either one of them was serious. Which is kind of disappointing, I thought by now the VARs would have worked or at the very least given me clues as with whom she might be cheating with but as of now I have nothing. I was able to see her credit card and bank statement. Her bank statement was normal, nothing out of the ordinary, her credit card statement did have two purchases from Victoria Secret in February. I’m pretty sure I would know or remember if she bought something from there. Since she only buys one type of clothing from there, I think we know what that is. It’s safely to assume whatever she bought wasn’t meant for me. I don’t know if that’s enough to confront her with but I’m thinking about it. I have nothing solid, but more red flags keep popping up.

The more I read the stories on here, the easier it is to come to terms with what might be or is happening. So I decided to contact a divorce attorney, I have a free consultation Monday. Hopefully things aren’t as bad as I think they are.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

PhillyGuy13 said:


> She says you and the 2 year old are everything to her. With all due respect, she seems to spend a ton of time out at night— at best out with friends at worst out with her boss. That’s a lot of free time for a new mother.
> 
> Meanwhile, you are handcuffed at home watching the baby, while she is out. Hire a babysitter and follow her. Or hire a PI.
> 
> Really bad feeling here.


Not really she only goes out maybe once a week and it's usually to a restaurant with her friends for a hour or two. I don't think that in itself is the problem. Everybody needs sometime away from home. Besides I'm the one who goes out more, just this week I spent Wednesday and Thursday in city watching the Big East tournament live. My wife had no problem with it and I've never cheated.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Can you get hold of her phone? Refresh my memory, have you placed GPS on car? Your first post mentioned her disappearing for hours, any repeat. 

Workplace affairs are hard to uncover so hang in there. Without solid proof she will lie. They usually lie even with proof. Based on all the red flags you posted I'd not be surprised if something was going on. Any chance she is onto you?


----------



## Malaise

Victoria's Secret...

By itself ( depending on what it is) may not be enough. If it's underwear no.

Lingerie, probably yes.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I spent most of today listening to this pasts weeks VARs recordings. Only one conversation she had with a friend that was somewhat alarming, she mentioned how good another coworker looked. They both joked about how good or bad he might be in bed. It was all said in a joking manner. I don’t believe either one of them was serious. Which is kind of disappointing, I thought by now the VARs would have worked or at the very least given me clues as with whom she might be cheating with but as of now I have nothing. I was able to see her credit card and bank statement. Her bank statement was normal, nothing out of the ordinary, her credit card statement did have *two purchases from Victoria Secret in February. I’m pretty sure I would know or remember if she bought something from there. Since she only buys one type of clothing from there, I think we know what that is. It’s safely to assume whatever she bought wasn’t meant for me. I don’t know if that’s enough to confront her with but I’m thinking about it. I have nothing solid, but more red flags keep popping up.
> *
> The more I read the stories on here, the easier it is to come to terms with what might be or is happening. So I decided to contact a divorce attorney, I have a free consultation Monday. Hopefully things aren’t as bad as I think they are.



Be patient you don't have enough to confront yet. Cheaters always lie a lot.

Her phone is key. You could sync it to a PC but you'll need her password sign in etc.


----------



## Marc878

Workplace affairs are among the hardest to prove/detect.

Gps tracker and var are your best bet. Wait


----------



## arbitrator

Scuba_Steve said:


> We have been together for 8 married for 5 years with a two-year-old beautiful daughter. We occasionally argue but mostly for minor stuffs, nothing crazy that can’t be fixed. For the most part I thought we were happily married. But my wife has been acting strange for the last 5 months. A few things she done have lead me to believe she might be having an affair with our boss. My wife will get home from work she would always talk about her boss. Any ways at first, I didn't mind because she would tell me about work related stuff and that her boss is cool, but then she started talking about him a little too much every day. I start thinking maybe she is attracted to him and maybe thinking of an affair having a with him because she would only talk about him and not about any of her other male co-workers. What really makes me think that is more she talked about him, his personal life would come, and she would talk about his tattoos (she hates tattoos) I ask her how she knows about his tattoos some aren’t even visible. She seen that it bothered me and that I started to get suspicious about it, so she stops talking about him every day. She done other things that make she’s doing something shady.
> 
> About two weeks ago I found out that she had created a new email account but only accessed it from her work computer.
> 
> She been coming home late with lame excuse as to why.
> 
> Her Phone rings but she won’t answer it around me and it never leaves her side
> 
> She started going out with the girls a lot recently although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them” called her out on that since we work for same company. She gave some bs excuse, so I dropped it.
> 
> She goes to the store or to do an errand she takes longer than usual. This past Saturday she went grocery shopping she left around 10 in morning and didn’t return till 6.
> 
> The other night she came home in a bad mood. Awhile she was in the kitchen I came up from behind to hug her. She pushed me off her saying I only wanted sex from her. She stormed out the house and I asked her where she was going, and she said nowhere. She didn't come back till 2 hours later.
> 
> There’s more but you guys get the picture. At this point I’m at a loss. I don’t think she would cheat on me because I know she loves me, but I have this gut feeling that something isn’t right with her. I just don't have any proof


*If she's busy off giving the bossman a "Wet Willie," then you'd have a hell of a time convincing me that she really loves you!*


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I would resist the urge to confront without enough evidence. The only reason I say this is that she'll be able to convincingly deny the affair and make all kinds of excuses for your flimsy evidence. "I just bought regular underwear! See! Here they are in my drawer!" Then you're left in a sort of limbo, not knowing whether she cheated or not. But it's worse than limbo, because now she's onto you. If she is having an affair, she'll hide it so well that you'll never find out. She might even suspend the affair for a few months just to throw you off the trail. Your VAR and GPS will be worthless. And all the while, you'll be tortured by thoughts that she _might_ have cheated. It's better to have an answer, even if you have to wait for a bit.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Can you get hold of her phone? Refresh my memory, have you placed GPS on car? Your first post mentioned her disappearing for hours, any repeat.
> 
> Workplace affairs are hard to uncover so hang in there. Without solid proof she will lie. They usually lie even with proof. Based on all the red flags you posted I'd not be surprised if something was going on. Any chance she is onto you?


Well I tried to get into her phone, the problem is the pass code I wasn't able to break it.

The GPS is up and running, I'm tracking her this very moment. She out with her friends so far she doing she said she would.

She hasn't done anything like that recently. 

I've tried my best to remain normal throughout this whole process. I don't see how she would be onto me.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well I tried to get into her phone, the problem is the pass code I wasn't able to break it.
> 
> The GPS is up and running, I'm tracking her this very moment. She out with her friends so far she doing she said she would.
> 
> She hasn't done anything like that recently.
> 
> I've tried my best to remain normal throughout this whole process. I don't see how she would be onto me.


GPS in her vehicle or on her phone?


----------



## Suspicious1

If she feels you're slightly off recently just blame it on work, use some truths to keep her from knowing how you're really feeling!

S1


----------



## annierose7995

I'm torn between honesty and just keeping your suspicion on the low at the moment. You'd have to really know without a doubt if you were going to do anything otherwise I think most people find a lack of trust as disturbing as a reason not to trust someone. (well, not quite but it's up there) So do what you can to gather information. You'll be surprised how much people leave behind their traces.


----------



## OutofRetirement

You have found out a few additional things from the VARs and GPS. She does not talk to him. She set up another email, so that may be one way. She probably texts or uses an app. She does not go out of her way to meet up with him. You thought OM was the boss, so none of this is unusual. She does keep the phone attached to the hand at all times and sleeps with the phone under the pillow, so she does keep in contact with him outside of work. If uou keep it up long enough, they will slip, there will be a one-off where they do talk or she does drive and you'll catch it on the VAR or GPS.

You had great sex in December and January. Very likely she had not yet slept with him yet at that point, but was getting sexual messages with him. Maybe they did some stuff, but not slept all the way. That got her revved up and she released that with you. In February she bought the Victoria's Secret purchases, which you say she only buys lingerie from there, so that is likely when she first had his first full-on sex. Maybe they went to a hotel room. Not the usual in-the-office touchy grabby in the closet. Then she pushed you away when you touched her and she lost time six-plus hours on the grocery, making up a fake argument and leaving the house for two hours, coming home late with lame excuses, etc.

If your wife drove to work, and then her and the boss had to leave the office to go to a "meeting" with a new client or new supplier, etc., and the boss drove, they could be going to a hotel for a couple of hours. They could do it at a long lunch.

I believe she is in love with him. Maybe he is not ready or willing to leave his wife yet. Maybe this is just still too early in their relationship. Maybe your wife still isn't ready to leave yet because the affair is just getting started. But I believe she is emotionally attached to him by her behaviors, the attached to the phone, the sleeping it under the pillow, the way she pushes you away. It's not just sex. If that were it, they would just put it on a schedule and it would be much harder to discover it. The emotional side of the affair is her wanting/needing constant reinforcement, whatever crumbs she could get, so she clings to her phone waiting for whatever ego kibbles might dribble out of it.

When did you first realize that she is sleeping with her iphone under her pillow?

How difficult would it be for her to see what you're secretly doing on this website, or where you are searching online about cheating and affairs, or where you are spying on her and her purchases, etc.? To be aware that you are onto her?


----------



## oldtruck

GusPolinski said:


> GPS in her vehicle or on her phone?


GPS in both because she may not be near her car when with the OM.
Also hide a VAR in the house and her car. These are must do's.


----------



## GusPolinski

oldtruck said:


> *GPS in both because she may not be near her car when with the OM.*
> Also hide a VAR in the house and her car. These are must do's.


Exactly my point.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> GPS in her vehicle or on her phone?


In her car, I've haven't done anything to her phone yet.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> In her car, I've haven't done anything to her phone yet.


Then at best you have a rough idea with regard to where _her vehicle_ is — she may or may not be in the same location.

What type of phone does your wife use? What type of phone do _you_ use?

Are your phones on the same account? Whether yes or no, do you have online access to the account to which your wife’s phone is attached?

Does she use a computer in the home? Something not provided by her employer?

Have you bought and placed any VARs?

Do you know her...

...phone unlock code?

...email password?

...Google Play or Apple iTunes/iCloud password?

...Facebook ID and password? Instagram?

...does she use ephemeral messaging apps like Snapchat, WhatsApp, Kik, Line, or Viber?

What did the two of you do for Valentine’s Day this year? What about the day before? What about the weekend before? What did she do for lunch on Valentine’s Day?


----------



## Tobyboy

I think that var recording gave you a pretty good clue to whom the suspected OM might be. Don’t be quick to dismiss it.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

OutofRetirement said:


> You have found out a few additional things from the VARs and GPS. She does not talk to him. She set up another email, so that may be one way. She probably texts or uses an app. She does not go out of her way to meet up with him. You thought OM was the boss, so none of this is unusual. She does keep the phone attached to the hand at all times and sleeps with the phone under the pillow, so she does keep in contact with him outside of work. If uou keep it up long enough, they will slip, there will be a one-off where they do talk or she does drive and you'll catch it on the VAR or GPS.
> 
> You had great sex in December and January. Very likely she had not yet slept with him yet at that point, but was getting sexual messages with him. Maybe they did some stuff, but not slept all the way. That got her revved up and she released that with you. In February she bought the Victoria's Secret purchases, which you say she only buys lingerie from there, so that is likely when she first had his first full-on sex. Maybe they went to a hotel room. Not the usual in-the-office touchy grabby in the closet. Then she pushed you away when you touched her and she lost time six-plus hours on the grocery, making up a fake argument and leaving the house for two hours, coming home late with lame excuses, etc.
> 
> If your wife drove to work, and then her and the boss had to leave the office to go to a "meeting" with a new client or new supplier, etc., and the boss drove, they could be going to a hotel for a couple of hours. They could do it at a long lunch.
> 
> I believe she is in love with him. Maybe he is not ready or willing to leave his wife yet. Maybe this is just still too early in their relationship. Maybe your wife still isn't ready to leave yet because the affair is just getting started. But I believe she is emotionally attached to him by her behaviors, the attached to the phone, the sleeping it under the pillow, the way she pushes you away. It's not just sex. If that were it, they would just put it on a schedule and it would be much harder to discover it. The emotional side of the affair is her wanting/needing constant reinforcement, whatever crumbs she could get, so she clings to her phone waiting for whatever ego kibbles might dribble out of it.
> 
> When did you first realize that she is sleeping with her iphone under her pillow?
> 
> How difficult would it be for her to see what you're secretly doing on this website, or where you are searching online about cheating and affairs, or where you are spying on her and her purchases, etc.? To be aware that you are onto her?


The plan is to use VARs and GPS till I find the truth.

Around mid January I realized she was sleeping with her phone under her pillow. 

I only time I visit and use this forum is from my tablet and when she not around. She doesn't have access to the tablet because it’s work related. The “spying” has been done when she not around me. For the most part when she’s her I act as normal as possible.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Today I have a meeting with a lawyer. Mostly to see what divorce will do to me and what I should be doing to prepare for it. It’s not what I want but It’s the most likely outcome and it's better to be prepared. I talked to a P.I., we plan to meet sometime this afternoon. I’m just waiting get a call back with the time.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> Then at best you have a rough idea with regard to where _her vehicle_ is — she may or may not be in the same location.
> 
> What type of phone does your wife use? What type of phone do _you_ use?
> 
> Are your phones on the same account? Whether yes or no, do you have online access to the account to which your wife’s phone is attached?
> 
> Does she use a computer in the home? Something not provided by her employer?
> 
> Have you bought and placed any VARs?
> 
> Do you know her...
> 
> ...phone unlock code?
> 
> ...email password?
> 
> ...Google Play or Apple iTunes/iCloud password?
> 
> ...Facebook ID and password? Instagram?
> 
> ...does she use ephemeral messaging apps like Snapchat, WhatsApp, Kik, Line, or Viber?
> 
> What did the two of you do for Valentine’s Day this year? What about the day before? What about the weekend before? What did she do for lunch on Valentine’s Day?




We both use iPhones, she has the X and I'm using the 7.

Different accounts, I don't have access to her acccount. 

We have a computer but she rarely use it. Most of her work is done on her work laptop.

Yes, VARs are in place and in use.

She has a few email accounts she still uses, I've checked ones I know the password to and found nothing.

She has both Google play and Apple iTunes/iCloud. I have the password to her Google play account but not her Apple iTunes/iCloud 

Facebook yes and checked, she isn't a big facebook person anymore. No to Instagram, she on it all the time it's her most used app.

Yes to snapchat and what's up.

I was out of town on business. I left Monday and returned that Thursday in the night, she picked me up. It's possible she meet with her OM during that time.


----------



## Tobyboy

If you have her google password, you can check her google activity history. Goldmine of info there!


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve

Yes, IF you have her google password then you can go to 

myactivity.google.com

It shows her searches, her youtube usage, and if her phone is set to tracking it will give a map of all her travels and stops. It is very useful.


----------



## Thor

If you travel regularly at all, some kind of VAR or hidden camera at home would make sense. VAR under the bed, or a hidden camera just anywhere in the home where a visitor would pass through. They make cameras that look like a phone charger, clock radio, smoke detector, etc.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

It’s been a couple of days not much has changed. The VARs haven’t worked, I thought by now I would be able to prove that she was having an affair and with who. As of now VARS haven’t provide me with anything. I’m starting to wonder if I might have missed read the situation. I think some else mentioned at another possibility that had nothing to with my wife cheating. 

I wasn’t able to meet with my lawyer Monday, something came up and I was forced to chance. I did meet the P.I. he was willing to help me for what I believe to be a reasonable fee he starts Friday. I have business trip Tuesday. I should be gone till Friday. If she is cheating then she will have plenty of time to see her AP and my P.I. will be following her. 

If the P.I. doesn’t find anything then I’m going to give up and look at other possibilities

Thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## MEM2020

Sleeping with phone under pillow = major league betrayal of sorts

But hey - if you need a PI to prove it that’s a personal choice. 

Thing is - this is not just about that. In a strong marriage this likely would have gone a different way. 

H: Why are you sleeping with your phone under your pillow
W: Goes into full deception mode
H: Hand me your phone now - unlocked - or start calling lawyers





Scuba_Steve said:


> It’s been a couple of days not much has changed. The VARs haven’t worked, I thought by now I would be able to prove that she was having an affair and with who. As of now VARS haven’t provide me with anything. I’m starting to wonder if I might have missed read the situation. I think some else mentioned at another possibility that had nothing to with my wife cheating.
> 
> I wasn’t able to meet with my lawyer Monday, something came up and I was forced to chance. I did meet the P.I. he was willing to help me for what I believe to be a reasonable fee he starts Friday. I have business trip Tuesday. I should be gone till Friday. If she is cheating then she will have plenty of time to see her AP and my P.I. will be following her.
> 
> If the P.I. doesn’t find anything then I’m going to give up and look at other possibilities
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## 3putt

Steve, went back and read your OP and focused on this-



Scuba_Steve said:


> The other night she came home in a bad mood. Awhile she was in the kitchen I came up from behind to hug her. She pushed me off her saying I only wanted sex from her. She stormed out the house and I asked her where she was going, and she said nowhere. She didn't come back till 2 hours later.


Perhaps that was the day the OM dumped her. It would account for the bad mood, turning you down for sex and you not being able to get anything on the VAR since then.

Just a thought


----------



## eric1

MEM2020 said:


> Sleeping with phone under pillow = major league betrayal of sorts
> 
> 
> 
> But hey - if you need a PI to prove it that’s a personal choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is - this is not just about that. In a strong marriage this likely would have gone a different way.
> 
> 
> 
> H: Why are you sleeping with your phone under your pillow
> 
> W: Goes into full deception mode
> 
> H: Hand me your phone now - unlocked - or start calling lawyers




If he’s already engaged a PI I’d personally lay low to be honest. If he doesn’t get anything next week then just confront her with her phone, I agree


----------



## MEM2020

Agreed



eric1 said:


> If he’s already engaged a PI I’d personally lay low to be honest. If he doesn’t get anything next week then just confront her with her phone, I agree


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> It’s been a couple of days not much has changed. The VARs haven’t worked, I thought by now I would be able to prove that she was having an affair and with who. As of now VARS haven’t provide me with anything. I’m starting to wonder if I might have missed read the situation. I think some else mentioned at another possibility that had nothing to with my wife cheating.
> 
> I wasn’t able to meet with my lawyer Monday, something came up and I was forced to chance. I did meet the P.I. he was willing to help me for what I believe to be a reasonable fee he starts Friday. I have business trip Tuesday. I should be gone till Friday. If she is cheating then she will have plenty of time to see her AP and my P.I. will be following her.
> 
> If the P.I. doesn’t find anything then I’m going to give up and look at other possibilities
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys.


Scuba, I think the PI is a smart idea. While you are away her guard will be way down. 

Ask the PIs if they can somehow get close enough to her to record her phone pin code. Long shot I know but you never know. PIs can be quite clever using all kinds of social engineering tricks. 

I mention the phone because it really is key. If the affair was a fling which has ended as some have suggested the phone may still have affair residue. If she used that phone to act inappropriately with someone unless she did a hardware reset on phone forensics will find stuff. Anyway she is guarding her phone for a reason. And acting strange. Stray strong. You will get to the bottom of this one way or another.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Pin codes, especially, six digit ones on iphones are usually important dates, anniversary, birthday, child's birthday, parents birthday. Try these if you have not already. The phone is a dead give away.


----------



## tech-novelist

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Pin codes, especially, six digit ones on iphones are usually important dates, anniversary, birthday, child's birthday, parents birthday. Try these if you have not already. The phone is a dead give away.


I'll be astonished if she hasn't cheated on him. It's a classic case, especially with her being glued to the phone, as you point out.


----------



## sandcastle

Oh for eff sakes-

Not one Judge on the planet cares about who did what to whom in the division of assets unless proof of fraud.

Your wife could be giving BJ!s to the Masses on Sunset Blvd and caught on tape.. No one cares in the legal system.

Go PI to your hearts content.
You are splitting the assets unless you have a prenup.
And those can be litigated to the tune of millions...

VAR! Not making it to the Judge.
Namniecam- uh- oh- not looking good for the person who set that up.
Oh- steal the jewelry in a setup fake robbery( hello, taxman)


----------



## Just another

I think the PI is for his peace of mind, not for splitting assets.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you brought up the boss in a friendly way? Just to see her reaction to see how she will talk about him in a general way. I’m assuming she no Longer mentions him at all.

How has she been acting since she ran off after you hugged her? Did you ever ask her why she acted so sh***?

Is your sex life normal now? Is she acting like everything is fine between you.


----------



## Chaparral

There could be something going on at work that has nothing to do anything more than stress. Ask her if things are going okay. What does she do for lunch? 
Did you check her drawers to see what the Victoria Secrets purchases were?

Did you ask her why it took so long to get grocerys? I would be freaked out if a one hour trip took six hours.


----------



## jlg07

sandcastle said:


> Oh for eff sakes-
> 
> Not one Judge on the planet cares about who did what to whom in the division of assets unless proof of fraud.
> 
> Your wife could be giving BJ!s to the Masses on Sunset Blvd and caught on tape.. No one cares in the legal system.
> 
> Go PI to your hearts content.
> You are splitting the assets unless you have a prenup.
> And those can be litigated to the tune of millions...
> 
> VAR! Not making it to the Judge.
> Namniecam- uh- oh- not looking good for the person who set that up.
> Oh- steal the jewelry in a setup fake robbery( hello, taxman)


Actually in some states from what I've read, adultery does affect things like alimony, etc.. BUT, I think the PI is for his clarity on the situation.


----------



## Coach23

Hello Scuba Steve, Quick story for you to think about. I love my wife as I'm sure we all love our wives. I had been having some gut wrenching feelings that something was going on. I would ask and she would say she was not cheating on me, however my gut kept telling me something else. One night some odd things happened (I won't go into the whole scenario) and I just pressed the hell out of her until she broke. She had been having a 6 month affair. We had been married for 4 years and had a 1 year old son. She had sex with the person multiple times. I was broken, and angry as hell. She however from that vary second that she told me was crying and sorry and started grabbing me as I started to lose my mind and leave. I do believe she is remorseful, regretful & ashamed of herself. I love her, but from the time it happened until now the pain has, and I know will never stop. It has changed me as a person, I don't look at her the same, our sex life has not been better. I decided to stay as I did not have a father in my life and could not fathom not being there for my son every day. I still love her, but in my head I still have many issue, it still comes up and I am still angry. By the way this all happened 30 years ago. Even though I do love her, if I could go back I would have divorced her ASAP and regret not having done exactly that, if I could go further back I would have never even asked her out. The hurt and pain I have felt all this time, is not worth it, she is not worth it. I would have found someone (who hopefully would not have cheated) who loved and respected what I brought to the table. Just saying if you’re the type of person that feels your emotions as deeply as I do. I say kick her to the curb, document, document, document, get a lawyer and work on getting custody of your child or at minimum 50/50 custody, have her pay you alimony if she is working and you’re not at this time. I hate to be the ass, but knowing what I know today, I would made her pay for her actions. No matter what issues there were in your marriage, if you’re not the perfect husband, her affair is still 100% on her. When there are issues, you discuss them, you work on them and you don't stop until the person understands period. I've read on here or heard the BS line "I didn't think he loved me anymore" Um, how about asking and discussing the issue as opposed to spreading your legs. Love, honor, cherish, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS. She showed you no respect, had no respect for your marriage and had no respect for those words. Learn from others mistakes. You will never be as happy as you deserve to be if you stay, the images will always pop up in your head from time to time for the rest of your life. There are always some kind of triggers around and your own mind may never let up. Just my opinion...based on experience. You’re going to be in pain no matter what, there may as well be an end to it at some point and that end will come with time and the finding of a better woman who respects and loves you. Maybe it wasn't such a quick story, but as you can see 30 years later and I'm still pissed. Oh and if you don't think your young child won't pick up on those emotions and affect her life, I think that is highly unlikely. Remember your daughter’s brain is still growing and creating all its neural pathways. You want them to be nothing but positive. I know my son was negatively affected by all the anger and tension that was in my house for years because of my selfish Wh*** of a wife and yet somehow I still F**ki** love her, but I regret not divorcing.


----------



## Edmund

Coach23 said:


> ... 30 years later and I'm still pissed. I know my son was negatively affected by all the anger and tension that was in my house for years because of my selfish Wh*** of a wife and yet somehow I still F**ki** love her, but I regret not divorcing.


Coach you should start a thread on your story because your experience could be helpful to the many people who come here thinking they can reconcile, as to how things could turn out.

OP, Coach is still angry, but I don't think you are at the point he was at yet. Please stay calm until you get the facts from your PI.


----------



## Coach23

Hello Edmond, I just might do that. My wife is regretfull and blames no one for her actions. I would like to say I trust her 100% today, but I can never say that. At best 98%. She has told me she wishes she would have had more respect not only for me and our relationship, but for herself as well. As best I can tell she has never hidden anything from me and has always said feel free to look at her phone or anything else at anytime. She always makes sure I know exactly where she is at, at all times. I do have phone tracking software on her phone and will pop up without notice at times. I never would have thought she was the type of person to do this and still don't believe this happened at times. I don't believe it was at the core of who she was or is as a person. However, I will never trust agian that there is anyone on the face of this planet that can't do what she did.


Scuba Steve, I have what I feel is a good marriage, not great(as it should have been) and she has been a good wife and I have not caught her in any lies or deception since. I have never had the same gut wrenching feeling I had back then. However the pain, anger and triggers are always lurking in the shadows of my heart waiting to puncture a hole from the inside out. Tread carefully and think without your emotions getting in the way, for the decision you make are not only for yourself, but for what is likely truly the most important thing in your life, your daughter,(you MUST think of what is best for her FIRST) not yourself, not your wife. Your daughter unfortunatly will likely also pay some kind of a price for your wife actions. How heavy is now up to you. She is an innocent victim as you are. You need to ultimately decide what is best for her first, then yourself. And again, love my wife, wish I made a different decision. 

Good Luck my friend


----------



## Taxman

Coach, I have had clients like yourself, that stayed for the kids and are now senior citizens. They too have a lifetime of resentment toward their spouse. One gentleman in particular was ravaged by ailments, skin, hair, teeth, heart rate, you name it. After a stint in hospital, he found a psychiatrist who basically told him that the long-term resentment was eating away at his health. In his late sixties, he re-opened his wife's affair from their 30's. He told her that her attitude and actions for the last 35 plus years, were killing him. She said that it was so long in the past, she couldn't believe he held it against her still. He said to her that the only cure for him is to divorce her. One year later, they were divorced. She is absolutely miserable. When he divorced her, all of the resentment and pain came out. People who thought her a saint, were told that she had spent her 30's basically being a co-worker's wh0re, and flaunting it. She kept her husband on a short leash by threats, coupled with lies. His health improved immeasurably after the divorce, and he found that life without her was much superior to life with her. Probably gave him another 15-20


----------



## Truthseeker1

Edmund said:


> Coach you should start a thread on your story because your experience could be helpful to the many people who come here thinking they can reconcile, as to how things could turn out.
> 
> OP, Coach is still angry, but I don't think you are at the point he was at yet. Please stay calm until you get the facts from your PI.


Agreed...it could be a good lesson for the TAM community.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Taxman said:


> * he found that life without her was much superior to life with her. Probably gave him another 15-20*


This right here - the fear of the unknown leads us to cling to what we have even if what we have is toxic.I 'm sure his wife thought she got away with it and was nice and comfy in retirement. It must have come as quite the shock to her. good for him!!!!


----------



## Coach23

Taxman, I can certainly understand it. the pain can be enormous and I do have resentment towards her. I have kept myself in pretty good shape all these years and do not have any physical ailments. I am vary active. I however do not (fair or unfair) keep it to myself. When I have a wave of emotions come over me I speak about it. For me even though I know it keeps me from moving forward sometimes feel that if I am in pain she can just deal with it since she caused it. Why should she get to just move on and leave me to feel the hurt all alone. If she was ever to tell me it happened again. I would not even want to know any details. There would be no point as the relationship would be over the moment those words came out of her mouth. I'm sorry if this sounds bad, but I would be "getting it in" with someone else by the end of that day or the next. Wouldn't waste onother moment feeling sh*t** or sorry for myself. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I do appreciate the words and who knows what the future holds. She has been a good mother and since dday not given me any reason to thing anything else has happened with anyone. I am no longer blinded by love and always have my eyes opened for the possibility. 

I don't want to hijack Scubasteve thread.

Scubasteve, If you have read any of my conversation. I do think there are things for you to think about. Remember your daughter, the wrong decision could affect her and the way she looks at love & marriage for the rest of her life, which is longer then the rest of us at this point.


----------



## Truthseeker1

@Coach23 but are you happy and do you want to go to your grave living in this situation? You need to ask yourself those questions. If you are then great if not then you need to either get IC or change things about your life.

When you get time read this thread - its long but instructive:

successful rugsweep?

Ultimately the choice is yours and you should live by your own code - whether that means staying or going. 

I wont post on this anymore in this thread since I do not want a long threadjack. 

Good luck!!!


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Well it didn’t take long for my P.I. to get something, he was able to get into my wife’s cell phone account. My wife is or was calling/texting two numbers consistently and for long periods of time. It seems to have stopped around late February but her data usage is way up. We still don’t know who the numbers belong to be he should have the info by end of the day. I’m also going to try and figure if those numbers belong to her boss. I haven’t been able to check yet since i just received he email he sent.


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

The PI will be the best investment ever if it allows you to get the truth about your marriage and life.

Living a lie for years or decades is a horror story. 

Next get a polygraph.

Tamat


----------



## Tobyboy

What are your plans if you do confirm an affair?


----------



## Marc878

Hold it until you can get good or more info before you confront.

Recovering deleted texts maybe your best bet.

Sorry man


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Tobyboy said:


> What are your plans if you do confirm an affair?


I have no idea, I was praying and hoping for a different outcome.


----------



## Marc878

Don't fly off the handle. You've done well so far.

Keep cool get more info and plan it out


Don't wallow in infidelity. You've had a taste of what that does already


See an attorney if you havent


----------



## Marc878

Keep one thing in mind. 

All cheaters lie like hell


----------



## Thor

Have a story ready until you're ready to confront. Tell your W you are feeling like you might be getting the flu, or you have a stomach bug, or you're under a lot of stress with a project at work. You're going to be a bit off normal, and she may ask about it.

Don't confront unless you have solid evidence. Wait for the PI to finish his work. Hopefully it will be in very short order.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well it didn’t take long for my P.I. to get something, he was able to get into my wife’s cell phone account. My wife is or was calling/texting two numbers consistently and for long periods of time. It seems to have stopped around late February but her data usage is way up. We still don’t know who the numbers belong to be he should have the info by end of the day. I’m also going to try and figure if those numbers belong to her boss. I haven’t been able to check yet since i just received he email he sent.


When did she get her current phone?


----------



## manwithnoname

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well it didn’t take long for my P.I. to get something, he was able to get into my wife’s cell phone account. My wife is or was calling/texting two numbers consistently and for long periods of time. *It seems to have stopped around late February* but her data usage is way up. We still don’t know who the numbers belong to be he should have the info by end of the day. I’m also going to try and figure if those numbers belong to her boss. I haven’t been able to check yet since i just received he email he sent.


This coincides with the incident when you hugged her and she got pissed. As someone else pointed out, that could have been because of a breakup.

So if nothing new is uncovered, it doesn't rule out previous infidelity.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well it didn’t take long for my P.I. to get something, he was able to get into my wife’s cell phone account. My wife is or was calling/texting two numbers consistently and for long periods of time. It seems to have stopped around late February but her data usage is way up. We still don’t know who the numbers belong to be he should have the info by end of the day. I’m also going to try and figure if those numbers belong to her boss. I haven’t been able to check yet since i just received he email he sent.


The frequency of those calls, length of time, time of day are a gold mine. The fact they dropped in Feb is telling in that it is around the time she snapped at you. 

Speculation: I suspect there was an OM who has a significant other who found out and is now watching him like a hawk. She may even know your wife's name and threatened to expose to you hence a drop in messages. Again, pure speculation. 

Being that you are not around this weekend and looking at her messages I gather the PI has found nothing yet this weekend. 

Her phone should hold the answers.

Stay strong.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Is the phone a Iphone or Droid? Does she back it up to the cloud?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> When did she get her current phone?


Back in November


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Thor said:


> Have a story ready until you're ready to confront. Tell your W you are feeling like you might be getting the flu, or you have a stomach bug, or you're under a lot of stress with a project at work. You're going to be a bit off normal, and she may ask about it.
> 
> Don't confront unless you have solid evidence. Wait for the PI to finish his work. Hopefully it will be in very short order.


She stared asking question already. This Thursday she asked if anything was wrong, she pointed out a few things that I normally do but haven't. I blamed it on stress, one of my managers that runs one of my business is going to leave in May. Its add to my level of stress but not as much as my wife believes.


----------



## Marc878

Were the phone numbers who you thought they were?

Sorry man


----------



## bandit.45

When you do find out who she was calling, and if you confirm it was an OM, then make sure you come back and talk to us before you go off half-cocked and confront her. IMO you are not ready to confront her. Having call logs in and of itself is not enough. The P.I. is going to have to dig deeper and root for more damning evidence...

In my opinion...

Right now all you know is she was calling someone a lot. It could be an OM, a female friend, a spiritual advisor, an investment broker...endless possibilities. You just don't know until you know.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Back in November


I was gonna say that the drop in visible calls/texts might have coincided with a switch from Android to iPhone, but now I’m thinking that the wife or girlfriend of whoever she’s been calling and texting might have started to clue in, prompting them to take things underground.


----------



## OutofRetirement

You ever hear the cliche, "Where there's smoke, there's fire"?

Or "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck"?

Steve, these affairs are never like a mystery movie, with twists and turns and what you thought originally is something completely different, or even the guy you thought is innocent.

Your wife switched from texting/calling on her phone plan, you found out about Feb. 15, she figured out you were onto her and she switched to a cheater's app, now there's data instead of texts/phones.

But the problem is, she probably is not a life-long deceiver, so this is a newer behavior. 

She keeps her phone under the pillow when she sleeps. This is a big red flag. Only cheaters do this.

Have you ever asked her about this? If you haven't yet, I don't think you should, it will only spook her even more. It's just that I'm curious as to her explanation if you asked before. Because there can never be an adequate explanation. Mom is on death's doorstep, and she wants to run if mom's health gets worse? Any other possible reason?

You'll find out soon enough. The PI should get the numbers. Then you'll be dealing with a teary-eyed swearing-on-the-life-of-her-child liar. Be very skeptical of her words, pay attention to her actions. She will tell you only what she thinks you already have found out. She will give you nothing extra. Best if you don't push or investigate further, don't play the days/weeks-long questioning with few truths trickled a drip or a drab at a time. Tell her to write it all down and you'll need evidence from her to give for you to believe her, and you'll need the truth to consider staying with her.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> Were the phone numbers who you thought they were?
> 
> Sorry man




No, I’ve looked through her whole department none of the numbers belong to anyone that works in her department. so that rules out her boss. I plan to search the whole company. 

The P.I hasn’t contacted me yet since my last email. I sent him a text a few minutes asking for any additional info.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> No, I’ve looked through her whole department none of the numbers belong to anyone that works in her department. so that rules out her boss. I plan to search the whole company.
> 
> The P.I hasn’t contacted me yet since my last email. I sent him a text a few minutes asking for any additional info.


Numbers could belong to burner phones.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> No, I’ve looked through her whole department none of the numbers belong to anyone that works in her department. so that rules out her boss. I plan to search the whole company.
> 
> The P.I hasn’t contacted me yet since my last email. I sent him a text a few minutes asking for any additional info.


Could be personal cell #'s


----------



## Scuba_Steve

found out one of the numbers does belong to one of our bosses. I originally thought the number belonged to her direct boss. It turns out the number belongs to one of the company execs. This guy is old, forget about being old enough to be her dad the guy is closer to her grandparents age. I can’t understand any of this. Part me can’t even believe it’s him. It just has to be someone else. This is ****ing crazy


----------



## stro

What were the frequency and timing of the calls? Is there any logical work related reason she would need to communicate with this guy this much?


----------



## Sports Fan

Doesn't matter how old they are. Unfortunately women are attracted to money and power. Unfortunately these old dinosaurs with power are a turn on for waywards.


----------



## Thor

Scuba_Steve said:


> found out one of the numbers does belong to one of our bosses. I originally thought the number belonged to her direct boss. It turns out the number belongs to one of the company execs. This guy is old, forget about being old enough to be her dad the guy is closer to her grandparents age. I can’t understand any of this. Part me can’t even believe it’s him. It just has to be someone else. This is ****ing crazy


Is it his personal phone? Many times there are a group of phones on one account, so all you will find out is the name of the person who owns that account, not necessarily the person using the phone.

For example, does this old guy have a son or SIL who could be on the account? A grandson?

You can't take anything for granted with looking up phone numbers unless you have additional information which the cell ownership helps to confirm.


----------



## [email protected]

Sometimes the VARs don't work well or don 't provide enough info. My wife and I can see each other's phones and email accounts. You KNOW what's going on. Do the hard 180 and don't relent!


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> found out one of the numbers does belong to one of our bosses. I originally thought the number belonged to her direct boss. It turns out the number belongs to one of the company execs. This guy is old, forget about being old enough to be her dad the guy is closer to her grandparents age. I can’t understand any of this. Part me can’t even believe it’s him. It just has to be someone else. This is ****ing crazy


Who did the other number belong to.


----------



## TAMAT

Scuba_Steve,

Don't dismiss a guy because of his age, OM3 was 80 something years old, but used to be a doctor and likely honed his skills over the decades with nurses and whomever, was a selfish demanding entitled and difficult person. 

Classic setup identify a woman who is married and unhappy or unappreciated pay her complements to make her feel special. Have long conversations with her. I lost a great deal of sleep over this guy it was sickening. I never met this guy in person but my W said he was disgusting. His family accepted my W as a family friend. 

The appearance of unconditional acceptance and unlimited intimacy is a very powerful emotional draw and it almost doesn't matter who gives it. 

Tamat


----------



## Tobyboy

Have a friend call the numbers. A female preferably.


----------



## curious234

unfortunately it is beta mails who mostly face infidelity


----------



## Scuba_Steve

stro said:


> What were the frequency and timing of the calls? Is there any logical work related reason she would need to communicate with this guy this much?


Multiple times a day, sometimes for hours. Maybe you can but I couldn’t come up with any logical reason as to why. My boss would fire me if I ever called him that much.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Alone the calls are not enough. She will explain away like blaming you for 'not being there'. Stay quiet, you will uncover more.


----------



## x598

the POS my X was cheating with was no looker. it was the $$$ and lavish life style he had.
the answer to who she is cheating with is what is missing in her life she is yearning for.


----------



## Marc878

Who did the other phone number belong to?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Is it the Exec's landline or mobile? Could it be that he has some young assistant that uses his phone? If not, the AP has to be gramps.


----------



## Tobyboy

Run the phone numbers through namefromphone.com


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Tatsuhiko said:


> Is it the Exec's landline or mobile? Could it be that he has some young assistant that uses his phone? If not, the AP has to be gramps.


It’s his personal cell. No chance it belongs to anyone else, if I wanted to call him it’s the number I would use.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> Numbers could belong to burner phones.





Marc878 said:


> Who did the other phone number belong to?


Gus is right, It’s a prepaid phone number. The only additional info the P.I was able to find was what carrier the number belonged too. The P.I was able to confirm that other number belongs to our boss.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Gus is right, It’s a prepaid phone number. The only additional info the P.I was able to find was what carrier the number belonged too. The P.I was able to confirm that other number belongs to our boss.


Your wife might be using a burner too. Is there a VAR in her car?


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Gus is right, It’s a prepaid phone number. The only additional info the P.I was able to find was what carrier the number belonged too. The P.I was able to confirm that other number belongs to our boss.


Did calls to the burner start around the time that calls to the other number stopped? Or vice versa?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Your wife might be using a burner too. Is there a VAR in her car?


Yes the VAR is in the car and working. I think you might be right about her having a burner phone too. I’m searching Our house now. If she using one then I want to find it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes the VAR is in the car and working. I think you might be right about her having a burner phone too. I’m searching Our house now. If she using one then I want to find it.


Look under the spare tire. Her closet space in rarely used coat pockets, etc. Shoe boxes. This is when hidden video recorders pay off too. 

Using a burner ups the level of deception, He advised her I am guessing. Maybe ask your PI to bug/camera sweep your house in case she is watching you.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Do messages to numbers line up with her long unexplained absences? Something to check.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Do messages to numbers line up with her long unexplained absences? Something to check.


 Or go completely silent consistently during these times. If they were together, they would not be messaging each other. Maybe one at the beginning of the unexplained absence, but no long series of replies.


----------



## GusPolinski

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Look under the spare tire. Her closet space in rarely used coat pockets, etc. Shoe boxes. This is when hidden video recorders pay off too.
> 
> Using a burner ups the level of deception, He advised her I am guessing. Maybe ask your PI to bug/camera sweep your house in case she is watching you.


It’s likely in her vehicle.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes the VAR is in the car and working. I think you might be right about her having a burner phone too. I’m searching Our house now. If she using one then I want to find it.


What has the VAR yielded thus far?

You’re swapping them regularly, correct?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

GusPolinski said:


> What has the VAR yielded thus far?
> 
> You’re swapping them regularly, correct?


Also, is there a GPS on car?


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> She goes to the store or to do an errand she takes longer than usual. This past Saturday she went grocery shopping she left around 10 in morning and didn’t return till 6.


Reread your original post and aside from the many, many red flags was this gem.

Did she ever explain this, even a bs answer?

If you've already mentioned it, sorry.


----------



## GusPolinski

OP, does your wife park in the garage or the driveway? (At home, I mean.)

Either way, consider installing a security camera (even if just temporarily) in order to get insight into her routine for getting home, exiting her vehicle, walking in the door, etc.

When she notices the camera (and she likely will), just tell her that you’re upgrading home security.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

What is your PI doing besides helping you track phone numbers? And what have you found on the VAR? (Also, be careful about hiding the VAR, its kind of frowned on in many states, never mention it to her if that is where you get your smoking gun).


----------



## eric1

To find the phone close all the doors in your house and put little pieces of paper on top of each doorway. Do the same with her drawers and her closet.

The most common hiding place for female burner phones is in the jacket pocket of stored coats (like the rain jacket she almost never wears type of thing)


----------



## Suspicious1

Sports Fan said:


> Doesn't matter how old they are. Unfortunately women are attracted to money and power. Unfortunately these old dinosaurs with power are a turn on for waywards.


Like I was told a chick I was seeing, she tried to convince me her neighbor was an old man, I had nothing to worry about. I replied he still has a Richard! She just reluctantly agreed.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I’m done I can’t take this **** anymore. I just confronted her about everything. 

I’ve been searching our entire house looking for burner phone and trying to get ready for my trip. While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. We haven’t used condoms since we been married. After finding the condoms I lost it and called her. I started to demand answer about what’s been going on. I know it wasn’t the smart move i just couldn’t keep it in anymore. She’s leaving work early so we can talk.


----------



## Chaparral

eric1 said:


> To find the phone close all the doors in your house and put little pieces of paper on top of each doorway. Do the same with her drawers and her closet.
> 
> The most common hiding place for female burner phones is in the jacket pocket of stored coats (like the rain jacket she almost never wears type of thing)


They can be hard to find. One poster accidentally found his wife’s phone in a packed box in the basement. She was doing the neighbor and they were supposed to be reconciling. He was taking sleeping pills for obvious reasons and she would bring the neighbor over after he conked out.


----------



## Chaparral

Act like you know more than you do. Never give up sources except to give hints.

Will you seek divorce?


----------



## Suspicious1

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m done I can’t take this **** anymore. I just confronted her about everything.
> 
> I’ve been searching our entire house looking for burner phone and trying to get ready for my trip. While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. We haven’t used condoms since we been married. After finding the condoms I lost it and called her. I started to demand answer about what’s been going on. I know it wasn’t the smart move i just couldn’t keep it in anymore. She’s leaving work early so we can talk.


You did over the phone?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m done I can’t take this **** anymore. I just confronted her about everything.
> 
> I’ve been searching our entire house looking for burner phone and trying to get ready for my trip. While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. We haven’t used condoms since we been married. After finding the condoms I lost it and called her. I started to demand answer about what’s been going on. I know it wasn’t the smart move i just couldn’t keep it in anymore. She’s leaving work early so we can talk.


Just go see your lawyer. Talk about what? What for?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Keep a VAR on you turned on.


----------



## Suspicious1

Suspicious1 said:


> You did over the phone?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Make sure she goes directly to the meeting point, and does not make a detour to get her story together.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ButtPunch

I'm interested to see how she gaslights this one


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m done I can’t take this **** anymore. I just confronted her about everything.
> 
> I’ve been searching our entire house looking for burner phone and trying to get ready for my trip. While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. We haven’t used condoms since we been married. After finding the condoms I lost it and called her. I started to demand answer about what’s been going on. I know it wasn’t the smart move i just couldn’t keep it in anymore. She’s leaving work early so we can talk.


Understand your frustration, but now you know she will stop by the boss(es) office on the way out to get their story straight.


----------



## Edmund

ButtPunch said:


> I'm interested to see how she gaslights this one


She might say she did it for Scuba... that the boss(es) promised to give him a raise or promotion if she would have s_x with him (them).


----------



## ButtPunch

Edmund said:


> She might say she did it for Scuba... that the boss(es) promised to give him a raise or promotion if she would have s_x with him (them).


She bought the condoms for a friend but she only needed one of them and I forgot to throw them away.


----------



## Yeswecan

Stand tall man!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Steve, just remember that everything that comes out if her mouth will be a pack of lies. One after the other. Minimize, obfuscate, blame you and invent things. All lies. Always is. 

As soon as she walks in demand her phone unlocked. She complies then pull out printouts of call history and put the number that she was calling all the time on speaker phone. 

She refuses walk out and tell her your attorney is waiting for you, that you are filing. Lay low awhile then come back home and check your vars. 

Still see your attorney. You balk at this step you will suffer greatly and longer.


----------



## Taxman

See your lawyer before she gets home. Make sure that you have a copy of a divorce filing in your hand. Shock and awe will be your friend. Now, once you have gotten her side of things, you will decide what you want as a go forward. Make arrangements for her to go somewhere other than your home or the AP's place for tonight. I suggest that you both take some time from work this week and discuss what you are going to do on a go forward basis.


----------



## bandit.45

Start bagging up her sh!t now. Have it waiting in big garbage bags by the door. Tell her to get out and that she’ll be served divorce papers soon. 

She’s going to lie, lie, lie. Don’t believe a word that comes out of her mouth. 

The only men who end up standing tall during and after crisis like this are the ones who take decisive measures.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chaparral said:


> Act like you know more than you do. Never give up sources except to give hints.
> 
> Will you seek divorce?


At first yes, now not so sure. I never thought I would be in this position. Everything becomes different once reality starts to set in.


----------



## Marc878

Better be strong and not back down if you do you'll just get even more lies.


----------



## Marc878

Soory man but if you aren't willing to end this you'll set yourself up for a lot more pain and limbo.

That's not a place you want to put yourself


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> At first yes, now not so sure. I never thought I would be in this position. Everything becomes different once reality starts to set in.


She is going to lie through her teeth and do everything in her seductive power to explain away everything, She will swear on her children lives she is not cheating.

That is further proof she is.


----------



## ButtPunch

Marc878 said:


> Soory man but if you aren't willing to end this you'll set yourself up for a lot more pain and limbo.
> 
> That's not a place you want to put yourself


Sad but true


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Is there anyway you can get that VAR out of her car when she gets back w/o her suspecting? I bet she is yapping away a cover story while we are typing. If not with OM with a GF for cover.


----------



## Marc878

Don't make the normal betrayed spousal mistake of letting her decide on anything. Do not give R upfront, don't jump into MC either.

You need to make the decisions. An affair is on her not you.

If she wants out let her go or you'll wallow in infidelity for longer than you should with probably the same result. If she's not onboard you can't make her be.

Stay strong


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Stay strong. Hang in there.


----------



## Thor

Condom box should have an expiration date on it. This will tell you how new or old they are. She may tty to claim they are from a long time ago for some legit purpose. It will be a lie, but knowing the expiration date will debunk her lies. 2 to 5 yrs from manufacture, depending on brand etc.


----------



## bandit.45

Make sure you are recording the conversation so you don’t get entrapped in a domestic violence arrest. 

And do not forgive or make any promises to her. None. Tell her she has one chance to come fully clean, and if you find out she is holding back or trickle truthing, divorce is assured.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Scuba, if she is indeed having an affair with one of your bosses you need to address this with HR ASAP...this is are so many ethical issues here.


----------



## syhoybenden

A wise man once said, "It is much much better to be pissed off than to be pissed on."

Please do not waver in your resolve.


----------



## Suspicious1

On average how long does it take for her commute from work to home. If its 45 minutes but it takes longer like over an hour, huge red flag.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## bankshot1993

Scuba_Steve said:


> At first yes, now not so sure. I never thought I would be in this position. Everything becomes different once reality starts to set in.


Steve, I can't stress this enough. If you want to save this, if you want R to be an option you must take a position of power right from the start, you must be in the drivers seat.

Even if you don't want to D, she needs to believe that it is a direction you are very willing to go, you can't play the pick me dance. The only way to save it is to be willing to lose it.

She needs to be put in a position where she has to fight to save it, her energies need to be refocused off the other man and onto undoing the damage to your relationship. If she isn't willing to go in that direction right out of the gate than you will have your answer if R is even possible because if she isn't willing to start out in that direction than anything else is just prolonging the inevitable. It's important to keep in mind, I'm not making any declaration that R is easy or even possible if she does this, I'm only saying that it is impossible if she doesn't do this.


----------



## TAMAT

I understand why you did what you did, it's like waiting for the executioner when you know your spouse is in an affair.

Now that you've spilled, it's important to follow up right, have her write out a timeline with every detail, tell her to leave out nothing. Tell her any lies or omissions or minimizations are grounds for divorce.

Then take her to get a polygraph where they will ask her if she wrote out her timeline truthfully. She has no choice in this matter. 

She also likely had sex with him unprotected and then remembered she could get an STD or pregnant, so do not accept that it was only once. Condoms have a failure rate btw.

Tamat


----------



## GusPolinski

Hope you have that VAR in her car rolling.

Oh, and be ready to hear all about she was just holding the condoms for someone else.

Or some other half-witted, inane lie.


----------



## Chaparral

The condoms were for her vibrator.

It’s actually very unusual for cheaters to use condoms. Is she on birth control?


----------



## Noble1

Good luck to you. 

Hope you do get some of the answers you are looking for.


----------



## [email protected]

Scuba_Steve, look, you already know exactly what's going on. It's just hard to admit it. Listen to these folks, cuz they won't steer you wrong. File on her right now
and do the 180, no matter what she says.


----------



## Sports Fan

I'm sorry you have to go through this. Its hard and most here can sympathise. It is very important that you stand strong at this very important time. Regardless of whether you want to reconcile or divorce if you fail to take strong decisive actions against her you will be resigning yourself to a future of long term lies, misery, and infedelity, from her.

The only way to save this is by dishing out consequences hard and fast.


----------



## curious234

Good move you graduated form being beating around the bush the cheaters need secrecy (hence care of their BSs). Now all is gone, She cannot even enjoy cheating. POSOM is scared too knowing his family life is at stake. also there may be a chance to go at his job or sue for damages since he is in a executive position. hope you are considering all options and collecting all info. Be productively angry. you are on your own now first and foremost you have to consider your interests and vulnerabilities because of WW actions


----------



## Taxman

One can bet that on the way home she was burning up the phone lines talking to the AP and any various and sundry girlfriends to seek support and possibly finding a way to defuse the situation. Everything is always rosy in infidelity land, until the betrayed spouse finds out and begins actively torching the fantasy. I guess the rainbows at this moment coming out of the unicorn's arse, are probably now brown and smelly.


----------



## TAMAT

I was going to tell you to keep quiet and wait for her to get sloppy, but she dropped a gift into your lap.

You now have a choice of divorce or recovery. 

You will not be in the unfortunate state of limbo so many of us end up in, since we will never get the truth and the lies are hard to disprove.

Tamat


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Everything has turned to ****.

I never thought things would turn out this way. My wife came home, I demanded answer. First I asked her about the condoms. She claims she didn’t know who they belonged too and she didn’t know why or how an opened box of condoms got in her bag. I didn’t believe any of it started asking more questions about why was she gone for long periods of time, why is sleeping with her phone under pillow, who’s she talking to all the time. She kept talking but nothing she was saying was making in sense. We kept going around in circles, it wasn’t getting us anywhere. At point asked to see her phone. She refused so I went for her purse. She grabbed it and wouldn’t to let it go. We stared to scream at each other. She called me controlling, crazy and she couldn’t have a civil conversation with the way I was acting and she was leaving. I asked her where she was going but she brushed me off.


----------



## 3putt

Scuba_Steve said:


> Everything has turned to ****.
> 
> I never thought things would turn out this way. My wife came home, I demanded answer. First I asked her about the condoms. She claims she didn’t know who they belonged too and she didn’t know why or how an opened box of condoms got in her bag. I didn’t believe any of it started asking more questions about why was she gone for long periods of time, why is sleeping with her phone under pillow, who’s she talking to all the time. She kept talking but nothing she was saying was making in sense. We kept going around in circles, it wasn’t getting us anywhere. At point asked to see her phone. She refused so I went for her purse. She grabbed it and wouldn’t to let it go. We stared to scream at each other. She called me controlling, crazy and she couldn’t have a civil conversation with the way I was acting and she was leaving. I asked her where she was going but she brushed me off.


And how many times have we seen this exact same scenario play out?

Countless. This is why you do NOT confront without evidence that would convince a jury to convict.


----------



## stro

Thats awful man. Her reaction says it all. Maybe when she calms down she can start telling the truth.


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## Marc878

You have your answer. File tomorrow or you'll just continue to live in this. If you need closure keep the PI on her. That will get expensive unless she slips up quick


----------



## Scuba_Steve

3putt said:


> And how many times have we seen this exact same scenario play out?
> 
> Countless. This is why you do NOT confront without evidence that would convince a jury to convict.




Trust me I didn't plan is out this way. I the plan was always to wait and have the P.I do his job, thats the reason why I hired him. I wasn't thinking straight and lost my head.


----------



## 3putt

Scuba_Steve said:


> Trust me I didn't plan is out this way. I the plan was always to wait and have the P.I do his job, thats the reason why I hired him. I wasn't thinking straight and lost my head.


I know, BTDT. 

Everything she did and said is 100% confirmation to us that she is full blown cheating.

So sorry, Steve.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Everything has turned to ****.
> 
> I never thought things would turn out this way. My wife came home, I demanded answer. First I asked her about the condoms. She claims she didn’t know who they belonged too and she didn’t know why or how an opened box of condoms got in her bag. I didn’t believe any of it started asking more questions about why was she gone for long periods of time, why is sleeping with her phone under pillow, who’s she talking to all the time. She kept talking but nothing she was saying was making in sense. We kept going around in circles, it wasn’t getting us anywhere. At point asked to see her phone. She refused so I went for her purse. She grabbed it and wouldn’t to let it go. We stared to scream at each other. She called me controlling, crazy and she couldn’t have a civil conversation with the way I was acting and she was leaving. I asked her where she was going but she brushed me off.


She came home early to tell you she didn’t know anything about the condoms?

LOL. Bull****.

She came home to find out what you knew. Plus the drive gave her the opportunity to make some phone calls and get her story straight.

Keep your eyes glued to the GPS and get your hands on that VAR ASAP.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Trust me I didn't plan is out this way. I the plan was always to wait and have the P.I do his job, thats the reason why I hired him. I wasn't thinking straight and lost my head.


Get the PI on her NOW.

Right.

Now.


----------



## GusPolinski

Another question about that burner number, @Scuba_Steve — was she calling AND texting it or just texting it?

If she was just texting it, it might be *her* burner.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> *Get the PI on her NOW.
> 
> Right.
> 
> Now.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> You betcha!


----------



## Marc878

Most want evidence so Gus is right. PI.

You could waste years on this for nothing.

You like most you don't want to let go but unless you want to linger and keep yourself in this let her go.

She's already gone and she's the only one that could fix that.


----------



## Marc878

You have gps in the car, right?

Plus the var might get you what you need.


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## GusPolinski

If GPS shows her someplace she’s likely to be for the night (hotel, parents’ house, etc), I might consider swapping VARs to get my hands on whatever conversation she’s partaken in within the past few hours.


----------



## Marc878

Have a female friend call the burner phone number and ask for John (random last name) record the one answering the phone. That'll tell you who it is or have the PI do it.


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## 3putt

Since you've rolled the dice too soon this time, it may be time go ahead and take it a step further. I think we all have a consensus that she's cheating with the boss so you may want to entertain this:



> Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!
> 
> Developed by Brits Brat @MB, board member and corporate attorney--
> 
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
> 
> WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
> 
> If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
> 
> Regards,]


----------



## TAMAT

Since she has been having sex with the OM your WW needs to be tested for STDs to prevent her from infecting you.

Your WW might try to have hysterical bonding sex with you but avoid it.

Tamat


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Everything has turned to ****.
> 
> I never thought things would turn out this way. My wife came home, I demanded answer. First I asked her about the condoms. She claims she didn’t know who they belonged too and she didn’t know why or how an opened box of condoms got in her bag. I didn’t believe any of it started asking more questions about why was she gone for long periods of time, why is sleeping with her phone under pillow, who’s she talking to all the time. She kept talking but nothing she was saying was making in sense. We kept going around in circles, it wasn’t getting us anywhere. At point asked to see her phone. She refused so I went for her purse. She grabbed it and wouldn’t to let it go. We stared to scream at each other. She called me controlling, crazy and she couldn’t have a civil conversation with the way I was acting and she was leaving. I asked her where she was going but she brushed me off.


You have your answer.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Well, it is easy for those of us on the sidelines to say you should have done this, should have done that. Yadda yadda yadda. This stuff hits a guy hard in the gut. You did the best you could. Now you know. File ASAP. That way you are in control. @3putt is spot on. Send a letter such as he recommended. Time to move out of infidelity.


----------



## Malaise

stro said:


> Thats awful man. Her reaction says it all. Maybe when she calms down she can start telling the truth.


Calming down will only allow her to tell better lies.


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## Taxman

The PI is your only recourse at this point, if I were betting here, if you have a VAR in her vehicle, retrieve it tonight, one can bet that the whole story is on it by now.


----------



## stro

Yeah I have a habit of assuming cheaters will be honorable.


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## 3putt

stro said:


> Yeah I have a habit of assuming cheaters will be honorable.


You wouldn't be the first.


----------



## Suspicious1

Where's your son, take him to grandma's house or a brother or a sister home.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

*You have access to her online account now!!!!! Log in and see who she's been contacting since you called her at work!!!!!*

Good clue here


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## Marc878

Let your PI know what's happened


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## Marc878

I'd move this thread to private


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## Cromer

Marc878 said:


> I'd move this thread to private


Great suggestion.


----------



## skerzoid

Pull out all the stops. Hit it hard now. Nuke 'em.


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## curious234

Do not think your confrontation was a mistake. You would have still suffered silently which is worse than what happened after you confronted. Clearly she was defensive which says something. Now at least you feel you made a move and let her face the consequences. Do not think she is enjoying the aftermath . She must be under lot of turmoil. She may even show up later. Talking about her claim on civility, send a neutral text saying her reaction make the situation even worse. The mistake you did was losing your cool. Now that you have made the move Keep your resolve and be stern.
"of course I could lose a few pounds," doing workouts good during times of stress


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## Scuba_Steve

The P.I is following her now. She at her moms with our daughter. The GPS also confirms this 

I’ve asked the P.I to send me the most recent call logs from my wife’s cell.

I can’t get the VAR it’s in her car still I won’t be able to get it out till tomorrow.

I will have to be careful about what I do at work. I don’t have any solid evidence to prove she having an affair with our boss. I'm going to do what I’ve should’ve done from the being and let the P.I do his job.


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## Marc878

Those condoms didn't get there by themselves. The call logs are important. They should give a good clue. She would have called the boyfriend immediately. Why doesn't the PI just give you her password. You can check yourself?

The PI should have called the burner phone to gig urge out who it is. You'll probably recognize the voice.

If you are affraid of losing your marriage it'll put you at a huge disadvantage.

However, she's cheating so that marriage is over anyway. Would you remarry her now? That's what R is.


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## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> The P.I is following her now. She at her moms with our daughter. The GPS also confirms this
> 
> I’ve asked the P.I to send me the most recent call logs from my wife’s cell.
> 
> I can’t get the VAR it’s in her car still I won’t be able to get it out till tomorrow.
> 
> I will have to be careful about what I do at work. I don’t have any solid evidence to prove she having an affair with our boss. I'm going to do what I’ve should’ve done from the being and let the P.I do his job.


You need to go into a hard 180. Do not contact her!!!!!


----------



## curious234

check spaceghost's story in survinginfidelity forum. His wife had a thing with Boss and there was no electronic trail as they meet everyday at work. Once he confronted her the next time he checked the VAR he found WW talking to her boss in panic while in the car. So the VAR recording while on her way to mom's house may say something


----------



## Primrose

Here's what an innocent wife would have said- "Condoms? We don't use condoms, Steve. So YOU tell ME how a box of condoms got into OUR house right now."

And, really- there's one reason, and one reason only, that a spouse will refuse you access to their phone.


----------



## Marc878

Since she is out of the home do a thorough search of everything. You may find more.


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## Marc878

Primrose said:


> Here's what an innocent wife would have said- "Condoms? We don't use condoms, Steve. So YOU tell ME how a box of condoms got into OUR house right now."
> 
> And, really- there's one reason, and one reason only, that a spouse will refuse you access to their phone.


If it were me id be moving her stuff out of my bedroom. She needs to get the message* "I won't be sharing my wife with another man"!!!!!*


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## Marc878

The condoms were in her travel bag. Who has she been traveling with?

Id bet they are on a credit card purchase. Do you have separate accounts?


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## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> The condoms were in her travel bag. Who has she been traveling with?
> 
> Id bet they are on a credit card purchase. Do you have separate accounts?


It's the bag she use when he has business trips. The last business trip she had was in November. I don't know if our boss also went on that trip.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

If she has not searched the car yet the VAR may hold clues. I say searched because when one party uses a burner the other gets the hint and does the same. She may be getting coaching lessons. 

Did you place a GPS on the car? Helps keep the PI bill down. 

The phone still may hold clues if she has not spent the night deleting or performing a hardware reset to cover her tracks. It will still hold clues however. 

I ask again, is the phone a Android or Apple? We can then focus on methods to recover what is lost if anything.

When she comes home and hands over the phone like 'see honey nothing to hide' you know then the phone has been scrubbed. Then she will hurry you up to get it back. But if you listen to us you will have a prepared punch list of what to look for and how to recover data. 

It is really really hard to wing this on the spot. Try and calm down and stay focused. Shooting scattershot makes you seem crazy while she has time to cover her tracks and bury the affair. 

So try and trust us here. You are not the first, not the last to go through this and lose their nerve. Keep that in mind and try and stay focused.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Your wife leaving is very telling, going to her moms and with your daughter is to paint you as controlling and abusive. So do the next best thing you can do, do not talk to your wife at all. The only thing you say is that you know much more then she is telling you. That’s it. Move her **** from your bedroom. She was measuring up what you know, and although it all points to an affair, she will still deny. Condoms? Travel bag? Would she accept that answer? What your wife did was not think of a reason they were there, she has no reason, she was thinking of keeping the identity of her AP secret. She is not thinking clearly, you have her rattled with damning evidence of the condoms. However, your wife is going to play this out to the end, and that calls for war like tactics. 

Call the wife of the boss she is communicating with for hours a day. Tell the OM’s wife to keep quiet but to check the phone and call logs. Tell the OM’s wife you will have proof inside of two weeks. What you do is apply pressure from the back end instead of the front. Sometimes in my personal job you apply pressure from friends and relatives, this gets your main suspect to think he is just minutes away from being caught. Apply pressure elsewhere and you just may get her to crack, or at the very least begin to create a complete mind ****. 

Stay your course, I confronted early too, but I sadly kept those rose colored glasses on too long. Once they were removed I treated this as war, and that means you take no prisoners. Pressure pressure pressure, keep piling pressure on her, don’t give her one idle moment, you’ll get your answer.


----------



## Marc878

Strength at this time. Do not back down. If you do you'll be in for a more painful and longer journey.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> It's the bag she use when he has business trips. The last business trip she had was in November. I don't know if our boss also went on that trip.



Check the date code on the box. She may have just hidden them there. If she's buying condoms it says she maybe the initiator.

The company has records of who traveled and when if you have any access to those records.

PI needs to call the burner phone and record who answers.


----------



## Marc878

If it were me I'd be going over the credit card statements. Do you have a joint account?

You may find the condom purchase


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Lawyer up as soon as possible. File and have her served as soon as possible. This will get her attention. Divorce process takes a long time. If she comes around to your satisfaction, it can be halted at any time.

2. 180, 180, 180. I would not answer phone calls, texts, or emails. Ghost her as long as possible. 

3. Get the VAR as soon as possible. At work if need be.

4. No booze.

5. No sex with her. Make her get checked for STDs.

6. Stay strong, stay courageous, stay decisive. Keep your temper under control.

7. Demand a polygraph if she keeps lying.

8. She is not your friend right now. This is war.


----------



## Satya

Her reaction about the condoms is telling, but her reaction about demanding to see her phone tells you absolutely everything. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

She's going to character assassinate you to her family, so I suggest you buy another VAR and carry it with you at all times. Let the PI get more dirt, and you go draft up divorce papers and have her served asap.

When you have enough info on the boss, do not go to HR, go to the Board of Directors and cite your pending complaint with any ethical committee in the industry for his misconduct with a subordinate. Send a carbon copy to HR.

Given this man's position, you need to light multiple fires.

Do nothing, however, before consulting with your lawyer. In fact, you should be consulting with every divorce lawyer in the immediate area so she can't.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I think you should send letter to HR and supervisory staff ASAP this morning as @3putt advised. First salvo of the battle. Strike first. Next tell her parents what you know without revealing sources.
The VAR will tell you what you need to know if you can retrieve it


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Also, let your parents know what you know. Let her know you have spoken. You also have enough to call a few close friends and tell them what happened and you have asked her to move out of your home. Be sure to mention condoms, burner phone,etc.

Search the hell out of your house. There is more. Look for lingerie you have never seen, go through clothing where she could hide things. Sorry you are here. @driftingon is a great resource of solid advice.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Steve, I know it's difficult at a time like this, but also consider the long-term outlook, not just the immediate details. The tendency is to focus on what is happening now, what will happen in 5 minutes, what will happen today, what will happen tonight, and not about what will even happen the day after tomorrow forget about next week, next month, or next year. But as difficult as the turmoil and chaos you are in right now, think about your immediate actions and how it plans into your long-term goals, hopes, and dreams. Like all of us, the future is uncertain, but you can make plans based on various alternatives that may be open to you.

Your wife is cheating with a 70-year-old boss. She is going to be humiliated by this. She will want no one to know this. That is why it will be especially difficult for you to get the truth out of her. So why would she be having sex and continual communication with the 70-year-old? (He's not really 70, though, is he? You said that, is that because he really looks that ancient? How old is he really?)

So why is he having sex with a 70-year-old boss? There are a number of possibilities. Which are not exclusive, there may be multiple reasons. He compliments her, makes her feel attractive, desired, adored. He makes her feel respected and admired. So this is a boost to her self-esteem both physically attractive, sexually, and her intellect and business abilities. Coming from a successful businesman, this is heady stuff for her. Time and again, you see the cheaters "trade off" sex for attention. This is almost definitely the case for your wife.

Also, he might be giving her stuff financially that you cannot do. You have a young family, even if you can do it, you might not want to, because you have to look to the future of your child and your wife and you. This guy likely has no restriction and is willing to pay her way. Meals, luxurious hotels, gifts of clothes or shoes, pampering. When I was younger and foolish, I remember taking out young women and spending a bit, and boy, did they love me. I think it was genuine on both of our parts. Then when it got a little settled and no longer I spent, it wasn't so great. Point being, it's easy to feel "in love" when all you do is go out and live it up. Much tougher when you have to schedule sex between diapering and breastfeeding and you can't afford to drop the kid off to mom-in-law while you go to the Waldorf Astoria for the weekend.

Very likely your wife will blame you. Your boss probably would have told her, subtly at first and then more openly later, that a treasure like your wife should never have been taken for granted like you did. (I'm not saying that - he is - and your wife will relate this to you in due time). I don't know how prideful your wife is, if she is the type that will easily say "I'm sorry I WAS WRONG - if she is the person who rarely or never says "I WAS WRONG" then you are probably on the path for divorce no matter what you want.

I just read too much about this, I'm no psychic and if I feel like I'm an expert, it's because of the hard lessons I've learned through my own experiences. I would love if your wife came up with a good explanation, but the phone under the pillow while she sleeps is really all you need to know. I would accept a "on death's doorstep relative" explanation for that, but no one I know ever kept their phone under their pillow even when "dear old dad" actually was on death's doorstep.

Does she think she is "in love" with him? It happens, even with a huge age gap. Sex and romance is about 90% mental and 10% physical. I think it likely, mainly because of the length of the calls and texting, that she is. That's the hardest thing to hear from me, personally. Some old dude like that, and you're in your relative prime. But look, that boss is not going to want to spend talking to her so much, except to nag and push her to get out of the house and have sex with him. For her to spend that much time, it's not just financial and it's definitely not just sex. So if I am correct about that, it probably will be very difficult for your wife to immediately realize how "wrong" she was. Because "if loving you is wrong, I don't want to be 'right' ." She has to de-tox from that heady drug. Won't happen quick.

Steve, the worst thing you can do is to show weakness. There are certain situations in life, where you show weakness, people will show mercy upon you. Maybe most situations in life is like that. But there are a number of situations where, if you show weakness, you will get no mercy, and not only that, you will be taken advantage of even more. Now I know, you don't think your mom or dad would do that, or your wife. And your mom or dad never would do that, but your wife will. Your wife is in a live-or-die situation. Think about the reality of HER LIFE. She cheated on her fantastic husband, great dad, for her 70-year-old boss. What will THAT look like to the outside world? Will they "understand" that despite his age and wealth, she truly is "in love" with him? Or will they think she's a sugar baby at best, and a prostitute at worst? What play does she have? Well, there's a few I can think of. The best might be that Steve is a horrible husband and father. Another might be that she went crazy because of stress or mid-life crisis or some other trauma. People are humiliated to be caught cheating with anyone, never mind a person who is old enough to be your grandma or grandpa.


----------



## sandcastle

Why not just dump the slag and move on.

Really- why reduce yourself to the above ****.


Move on.


----------



## sandcastle

Why reduce your self to a juvenile poop.


----------



## Chaparral

Keep an open mind. I am still not convinced it’s the older man though things point that way. Her actions indicate her younger boss. I’m wondering if he has the older boss’ phone for some reason.

If they were on the phone for hours at a time, that sounds like more than kicks and giggles. 

My first phone call would be to her dad.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve ,

This is going to be tough, but you must be strong,resolute, and inflexible. She is going to pin this whole thing on you otherwise. Watch out for the blameshifting from her.

You are responsible for 50% of the marriage. This cheating **** is 100% on her. Do not allow her to even attempt this. 

Calling her dad is an excellent idea another poster mentioned. By all means do so


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

As for exposure once I had the goods on my FWW I exposed to adult children, siblings, parents, my pastor and emailed close friends. This knocked FWW off her feet. I did so without mentioning name of POSOM.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Screaming "You are CONTROLLING" re the phone IS blame shifting. As well as the rest of her inane excuses

The opened condom package "walking into the travel bag on their own" is up there with "I must have gotten it from the toilet seat!" 

She is busted. What remains is how how defiant she is and how resolute SS is in the face of her lies. 

Travel bag could have been sneaked out of house after or even before November business trip. Her little cheaters sex bag. Lingerie, toys, condoms, etc. Who knows. Her bag, her possession. Busted.


The rest is for exposure.

As far as the call record SS needs the physical records in hand to analyse the data and highlight obvious conclusions. Cross referencing the calendar with her behavior, length of calls and frequency. 

He has 2 numbers. One is the boss, other is probably a burner. Myself, I would get the physical possession of that phone and call burner number in front if her on speaker phone. Then start asking whoever answers questions based on analysed data. If it is not too late already.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Steve, there are two alternative goals and dreams for your future. A happy life with marriage with your wife, or a happy life without marriage with your wife.

At this point, the actions are the same for both. Notice I said "actions." Talk from your end is not not useless, zero value - it's actually a negative. The more you talk the less respect your wife has from you.

Let's look at your situation. You know your wife cheated sexually and emotionally. You KNOW for a fact that she sleeps with her phone under her pillow. You KNOW for a fact that she had condoms. MOST IMPORTANT - your wife KNOWS that you KNOW.

Your wife's behavior has been obvious. The red flags were so obvious that ANYONE ELSE could have seen it easily. You are just like almost all of us. You are a well-spoken, intelligent person, and your values generally match up with most of the posters here, in most the threads here. You missed those obvious red flags ONLY because you KNEW that your wife would NEVER cheat. You TRUSTED her.

While your wife was cheating, this trust was hurting you in more ways than one. Not only was it taking time and effort away from your marriage and family, but it was making her lose respect for you. This might be unconscious, and I am less certain of this than other things, but still pretty sure this happens most of the time. Your wife went out to buy milk and came back six hours later and you did ... nothing. She kept her phone under her pillow and you did ... nothing. I could go on and on, but the point is, she did A LOT OF THINGS and every single time you did ... NOTHING.

Every single time, she lost more respect for you. In her head, she thinks, "HE MUST KNOW, why is he NOT saying anything." Can you get this, it is the OPPOSITE of what you have been thinking. Like every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Your were thinking, "looks like cheating, except I KNOW she would never do that." She is thinking, "he must know, so he must not care." Maybe this is subconscious, just barely at the surface, but give it some thought. It is there.

You have thought you were "loving" your wife, being "understanding," and trying to be "nice" and "not make waves." I understand, but do you understand, too? WEAK. Can you see that side of that? And when your wife saw this, how you acted, did she show mercy? No, she took advantage even more, doubled down on it, and now, still now, she lies and leaves the house.

I'm trying to give you some explanation as to why showing any weakness is a bad idea when dealing with a cheater. You can show weakness later on after she apologizes profusely with words and IN DEED. Actions. Any words from her are meaningless. The old cliche, you know how you can tell if an actively cheater is lying? Her lips are moving. Best thing you can do is to start taking some actions. It is scary. She might not want you. Truth is, she will either want you or not in the end. No matter what you do or say. File for divorce? It would show strength. I wouldn't do it unless I felt I was ready to go through with it. Be stingy with words, and mean what you say. Don't tell her if she doesn't come home tonight I'll file for divorce and then when she doesn't come home, not file. It makes you look weak, and your words are meaningless.

I personally would do this if I were in your situation. I would write my wife a message - email, text, letter - whatever. This is what I would write:
1. I know you cheated.
2. I will TRY to reconcile if you meet my needs. No Guarantee, but I will try if you give me what I needs, which are below.
3. Tell me the full truth and GIVE ME EVIDENCE. Give me all of the messages between him and you. If you deleted it, go get it somehow. Need a computer specialist to recover the deleted texts? Need to beg to him to get you the copies of all the messages that he did not delete? Need to get a lawyer to ask the phone provider to get the copies of the messages? You do what you need to do, you caused this, you fix this. You lied to me, your words and assertions now become meaningless, I need PROOF.
4. End the affair and PROVE IT TO ME.
5. Get another job.
6. Act in such a way as for me to believe you are committed and open to me. For example, leave your phone open and available to me, act as if you have nothing to hide. Better yet, actually have nothing to hide.
7. I want to stay married and have a happy life. I want to be happy. I want you to be happy. I want both of us to be happy together, with our child. I will improve any LEGITIMATE faults I have, and I expect you to do the same. I will TRY to get over this eventually. It won't be easy, and it won't be soon. But I will TRY if you will TRY.
8. I really hate being in a marriage while my wife has a boyfriend. I won't stay in this situation long. I will divorce if you don't make this marriage palatable to me. This has to be a two-way relationship. We BOTH have to be HAPPY. If you were NOT HAPPY with me, it was up to YOU to let me know.
9. I will not wait long.

I wouldn't give her a deadline, but set one for yourself. One day, one week? I think one month is way too long.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Well said OOR.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

SS, you don't need to wait a month, a week, a day or even one minute for your wife to decide to break up with her boyfriend and reconcile with you. Just file today and have her served.

She wants to reconcile, she will reach out.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Today is the first day of mind ****ing with your wife. You will now become a man that is deep within you, that cornered animal that can now only attack and move forward. Call OM’s wife, tell her of the time spent between your wife and OM. Tell her you found condoms and are awaiting for more evidence. Ask her to pressure the boss on the phone calls and nothing else so you can both get the truth. Once this is done, and your wife comes to you to plead or explain you say one thing then walk away. “You tell your wife that you know of the communication via phone, and now OM’s wife does too”. “I wonder if OM is painting his wife as untrusting and controlling as you say I am”. Nothing more is said. 

Your wife’s belongings should be in the spare room by now, and if they aren’t, do that now. I too would write a letter to the heads of HR about this inappropriate communication. Of course you should seek legal advice from your attorney. By amping up the pressure your wife is soon to call OM and you will have it on your VAR. Stay strong, it’s going to get a little messy from here on out. But if you squeeze pressure from different angles you will now trap her in your cage. Tomorrow you turn up the pressure more, I’ll come back with more ways to do this.


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## ButtPunch

He doesn't know who the OM is definitively


----------



## drifting on

ButtPunch said:


> He doesn't know who the OM is definitively




Scuba’s PI was able to confirm a phone number is his wife’s bosses personal cell phone. Scuba now just needs to enlist the help from OM’s wife.


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## bandit.45

Scuba you can still snatch some victory from the jaws of defeat here. Say nothing more to her about it. Just act like you are hurt and mope for a while. Give it some time to blow over and then see what happens. While you are doing this keep the PI on her tail. 

But you need to get control of yourself. You need to show some restraint and stop reacting. Think about every move you make before you do it. When you have the compulsion to act, draw back, take a moment, breathe, and really think about the next move you will be making. And then talk to us first.


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## Thor

But Scuba has no confirmation of any kind that this boss is an OM. At best it is circumstantial. It would be a bad move to start blowing things up and making accusations about a boss. Scuba could lose his job! He could destroy his career.

Yes the information indicates 99.9999% certainty his wife is in a PA, but only a low certainty who it is. He needs the VAR and whatever other data his PI can provide before making accusations against other people.


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## Steve1000

@Scuba_Steve

You've received quite a bit of good advice. I just want to add that now is the time your wife will likely gas-light you and treat you like you've done something terrible. At this time, many of us will start to second guess ourselves.  Don't let that happen. Remind yourself that everything you've done until now is reasonable and not without cause.


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## MEM2020

You already know who she is having the affair with. 

You don’t need a PI to prove it. The focus on the PI is to avoid focusing on your next steps. 




Scuba_Steve said:


> The P.I is following her now. She at her moms with our daughter. The GPS also confirms this
> 
> I’ve asked the P.I to send me the most recent call logs from my wife’s cell.
> 
> I can’t get the VAR it’s in her car still I won’t be able to get it out till tomorrow.
> 
> I will have to be careful about what I do at work. I don’t have any solid evidence to prove she having an affair with our boss. I'm going to do what I’ve should’ve done from the being and let the P.I do his job.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> my wife has been acting strange for the last 5 months. A few things she done have lead me to believe she might be having an affair with our boss. My wife will get home from work *she would always talk about her boss*. Any ways at first, I didn't mind because she would tell me about work related stuff and that *her boss is cool*, but then *she started talking about him a little too much every day.* I start thinking maybe she is attracted to him and maybe thinking of an affair having a with him because she would only talk about him and not about any of her other male co-workers. What really makes me think that is *more she talked about him, his personal life would come, and she would talk about his tattoos (she hates tattoos) I ask her how she knows about his tattoos some aren’t even visible.* She seen that it bothered me and that I started to get suspicious about it, so she stops talking about him every day. She done other things that make she’s doing something shady.


Steve, is this a different boss than the old dude?

Because this is the guy she is cheating with. The guy she talked a lot about, who she knows all about his personal stuff, and where all his tattoos are. That's the guy. If that is the son or nephew or have that type of relationship with the old dude, then likely he gave the younger guy the phone and didn't take it off his account. It's probably not that much money for him to bother and he has that kind of relationship with the younger guy.

It doesn't matter that much as far as you handle it.

If you call the other man's wife, you will be shaking the tree to see what falls out.

I personally would just call the guy who's phone you think it is (the old dude) and directly say "what's up with this? My wife has been calling and receiving from this phone a lot, and I found condoms on her in her overnight bag that she uses when she travels with you?" If he is squirrelly, call him out on his manliness, is he a coward or what? I'm assuming based on his age and position he's going to come clean with you. I don't think you have much to lose, nothing to lose that I would care about. Your job? Already poisoned, just a matter of now or later. Telling other man's wife? She can't be insulated if you have a PI to provide the info to her. But keep in mind, this stuff about the other guy, whichever one it is, is just a sideshow. Might give you some insight or truth that your wife never would. Or he could lie. You have to filter it based on whether or not it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense discount it as a lie. If it makes sense, and it matches up with the other facts you know, then assume it is partially true. 

Neither other man, nor your wife, is ever going to competely come clean just because you confronted them. The only time you'll ever get the full truth is if you demand the proof to see it for yourself, and you are only get that from leverage - if your wife wants to stay married to you she will give you the evidence, or if you have something to hold the other guy over his head, he might give you the truth. If it's the old guy, you can hold it over his head about telling his wife, tell him to send you the texts he has to you, and you won't tell her. You can tell her anyway later on, I personally feel I don't have to honor my word with him, he's not honored his (implied) word to you as an employer or a human being.

Personally, this is the worst spot for me. It only gets better, no matter where it goes, after this. Unless you're still in denial. You've been living in a fake marriage for at least five months and now it's fallen apart. You found out and you are taking actions to fix it. Cure the cancer by working on it or cut it out surgically, but it will get better. It will require you to be strong and take some actions.

I want this for you: that after all this is eventually all said and done, you can look at yourself in the mirror and look in your own eyes, and like yourself, and feel satisfied that you stayed true to yourself and your values.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba_Steve said:


> It’s his personal cell. No chance it belongs to anyone else, if I wanted to call him it’s the number I would use.


Call this number. All you need to say is who you are
And “I know”.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

As you have been advised bag her clothing and personal items and tell her to pick up. All further communication is through my lawyer.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hope you’ve got lithium batteries in that VAR.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

GusPolinski said:


> Hope you’ve got lithium batteries in that VAR.


 That's what I was thinking as well. It would suck for it to have gone dead right before the calls would have happened.


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## jlg07

@Scuba_Steve -- Sorry you are in this, but I hope that you get your answers quickly to get you out of limbo.


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## SunCMars

Scuba_Steve said:


> While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. We haven’t used condoms since we been married.


On the condom...only.
The rest non-withstanding.
"The rest of the story", surely standing on wobbly, shaved legs.

They were in her travel bag. 

Meaning?

One was used while traveling.

Could be the boss.
Could be a hook-up, a one night stand in the hotel's bar or another place, maybe a Craigslist meetup, or such?
Could be any man.

Could have been kept in her wallet or purse. 

For?
For, 'just in case'.

For, Mr. What If.... When, What If, comes a knockin, and rockin.

It may have never been used, was not kept, was discarded. Or was stashed in a fold in her wallet, NOW discarded.
*But the intent, and the indent left in her purse was for imminent use, for planned use.
*

If not used, she then could be charged with attempted Perfidy. A third degree felony slaying. One less than Penile Manslaughter.
Manslather. 

She killed her Spouse's Pride, killed her Marriage. 
Tis', a Third Degree Infidelity.
Just THIS, in itself.

The Typist II-


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Ok I originally believed her AP was her direct boss, we will call him OM 1. He’s the one she talked about constantly and knew all about his personal life. He’s a lot closer to our age and he’s a pretty good looking guy. He seemed like guy she would cheat with, it would make sense. The guys has always had a pretty open personality and likes to joke around. Maybe that’s how she came to know about all of his personal stuff. All evidence I currently have does not point to him as her AP. 

OM2 is the grandpa. He’s head of her department. The evidence I have points to him as being the AP. Which is disgusting, I can’t comprehend it. Out of all guys she could have an affair with she picked him. 

As for going to the HR or to his wife, that’s not a option right now. I don’t have to enough prove 1) who the other man is 2) prove that the affair took place. A call log and a box of condoms at best proves my wife is cheating but not with who. I have to carefully about how I play this. 

My wife is still at her mothers. She planned to come home this morning but given the weather I told her to stay. Which is fine I don’t want to see her right now.


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## Marc878

Did you do a thorough search of the home?

PI come up with the ID on the burner phone?


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## Marc878

Who did she contact yesterday after confrontation?


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## Sparta

So I guess this means you haven’t got the VAR yet from her car.? There should be a lot of answers on that recorder if everything worked out right batteries did not die... stay strong...


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## Marc878

At this time many will back down, try to make nice. You play that came you lose.

You don't have to yell, scream or treat her bad but you need to take yourself out of the equation.

If you can't you'll bind yourself where you've been/are for a longer period of time.

180 !!!! Let her come to you.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I've searched the house top to bottom and found nothing else.

My P.I did send over the updated call logs but she hasn't called neither of the two numbers. My P.I believes they are talking through app's like what's up. 

Since my wife isn't home. I haven't been able to retrieve the VAR. It's the first thing I will do when she gets back.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> I've searched the house top to bottom and found nothing else.
> 
> My P.I did send over the updated call logs but she hasn't called neither of the two numbers. My P.I believes they are talking through app's like what's up.
> 
> Since my wife isn't home. I haven't been able to retrieve the VAR. It's the first thing I will do when she gets back.


Man, you need to find a legitimate reason to get over there and get that VAR.


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## Marc878

The problem now is they will go deeper underground. 

Have you been able to go over the credit card statements?


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## Marc878

Work affairs are the toughest to crack especially if it's taking place at work.

When she was calling the numbers was it all during work hours?


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## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I've searched the house top to bottom and found nothing else.
> 
> My P.I did send over the updated call logs but she hasn't called neither of the two numbers. My P.I believes they are talking through app's like what's up.
> 
> Since my wife isn't home. I haven't been able to retrieve the VAR. It's the first thing I will do when she gets back.


What's up is a text app. There won't be anything on the VAR's unless she has a burner phone.


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## Marc878

Unless the PI spots something you may be stuck at playing hard ball until she cracks.

Better get your game face on and keep it there.

Any luck on finding if OM has been on trips with her?

Did she go to work today?


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## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> What's up is a text app. There won't be anything on the VAR's unless she has a burner phone.


I've never used the app but going by what my P.I has told me you can text and call.


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## MEM2020

Steve,
Very dangerous to go to HR even if you become certain of the identity of the man. 

If you get your wife fired - you will get creamed financially in the divorce. 

She’s not remorseful and honestly - she has never been that into you. This is what women do when they just aren’t that into their partner. 




Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok I originally believed her AP was her direct boss, we will call him OM 1. He’s the one she talked about constantly and knew all about his personal life. He’s a lot closer to our age and he’s a pretty good looking guy. He seemed like guy she would cheat with, it would make sense. The guys has always had a pretty open personality and likes to joke around. Maybe that’s how she came to know about all of his personal stuff. All evidence I currently have does not point to him as her AP.
> 
> OM2 is the grandpa. He’s head of her department. The evidence I have points to him as being the AP. Which is disgusting, I can’t comprehend it. Out of all guys she could have an affair with she picked him.
> 
> As for going to the HR or to his wife, that’s not a option right now. I don’t have to enough prove 1) who the other man is 2) prove that the affair took place. A call log and a box of condoms at best proves my wife is cheating but not with who. I have to carefully about how I play this.
> 
> My wife is still at her mothers. She planned to come home this morning but given the weather I told her to stay. Which is fine I don’t want to see her right now.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I've checked her credit card statements at least the cards that I know about. I've asked the P.I to check if she opened any new accounts.

My wife has sent a couple of text but I haven't read any.

I've checked and my wife hasn't been on any work related trips with OM2 but she did travel with OM1 last June.


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## Marc878

There's no way you're getting into her phone without her permission. Did/does she ever sync it to a PC, etc? You'd still have to have her sign in and password


----------



## Lostinthought61

if she is adamant that she did not cheat then tell her to take a polygraph


----------



## Scuba_Steve

MEM2020 said:


> Steve,
> Very dangerous to go to HR even if you become certain of the identity of the man.
> 
> If you get your wife fired - you will get creamed financially in the divorce.
> 
> She’s not remorseful and honestly - she has never been that into you. This is what women do when they just aren’t that into their partner.



Either way divorce is going to kill me financially with or with our her job. We make about the same but the difference is my work salary isn't my only income unlike her.


----------



## Marc878

Did the PI call the burner phone? May get some info there. 

Was the amount of calls to that phone as much as OM?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I've never used the app but going by what my P.I has told me you can text and call.


There are dozens of apps you can text and call. Even video call.


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## [email protected]

Marc878 is right. The only way past this is the hard 180. First things first: The 180 followed by the D, if necessary. 
Eventually, your finances will improve.


----------



## curious234

Her coming home, is she in a compromising mood? If so you can put forward the condition that for any progress you need to know the details such as the identity of OM


----------



## MEM2020

Nothing better than parting ways with an ungrateful, disloyal partner. 




Scuba_Steve said:


> Either way divorce is going to kill me financially with or with our her job. We make about the same but the difference is my work salary isn't my only income unlike her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve,

When she comes home, ask her for the rest of the story. Tell her to sit down. Prior to her arrival, Get a bunch of paper,stack it, (optics)and make her think you have more than you have.Put the condoms on top of the stack. Do not make any threats such as divorce, do not make her think there is any chance for reconciliation at the moment. Keep her wondering. This is what I will refer to as crunch time. You are in control. Do not forget that.

You have to play psychological games. Tell her you are thinking of reporting her and POSOM to HR. Tell her what she tells you depends on whether you go to HR. Tell her you know a lot, you expect her to be honest, if she is not,” HR here I come”. See if she cracks. Tell her you have the phone logs and they are only part of the 411you possess.

One lie and ***** it is over.
Keep her off base wondering where the next shot will come from.


----------



## Thor

Ok, we may be forgetting the bigger picture here Scuba.

You know your wife has been having sex outside of the marriage. You know she is in some kind of illicit relationship currently due to sleeping with her phone under her pillow, etc.

You don't know if the current affair is sexual, or if she is only having sex on business trips, or both. You don't know the nature of the relationship with gramps boss.

The thing is, you already know enough to know she has cheated and is cheating. Why do you want to find out more? Would finding out the old man boss is the OM change anything? Would finding out she's had ONS on business trips change anything? Would finding out why she is hiding her phone change anything?

We all go through this search for as much detail as possible when we discover infidelity, but many times it is either a distraction so as not to face the big questions, or it is because we don't want to believe what we already know. It seems people are not willing to pull the rip cord and file for D, so they keep looking to see if there is one more piece of evidence which makes things worse. But this ends up being a forever moving goalpost. Nothing is ever enough to decide to D, but it is too terrible to R. Limbo.

If a PA is a deal breaker for you, well you know it has happened so your move is D. If a PA is not a deal breaker, but some other worse thing is, do you know what that line in the sand is for you? Multiple PAs? EA? ONS with strangers on trips? A long term intermittent affair with someone she bumps into only on business trips? Are further lies the deal breaker, but if she were to come fully clean you would attempt R?

That last one is a trap many of us have created. You want to believe she isn't so treacherous. You want to believe she made a "mistake", or maybe she was weak and you were not a great husband which contributed to the affair. All of that is defective thinking! If you fall for it you will keep setting up little honesty tests to see if she'll lie again, and you tell yourself if she lies it will be D. But underneath it you want to find out she isn't so disloyal to you, so you'll get into another limbo. You'll tell her all you need is for her to be fully honest and then you can work on R.

But she is what she is. Which right now is a dishonest, disloyal cheater. The script calls for her to gaslight, lie, misdirect, minimize, deflect, and blameshift. The script does not call for open honesty and true remorse. Those are incredibly rare. Look up "what does true remorse look like". It is very different than being sorry for being caught, and very different than trying to justify and wiggle out of accountability.

Do you really need to learn more? I would certainly gather what you can in the immediate future, such as from the VAR and anything she may confess to you at your next meeting. Just don't get onto the path of trying to find out everything. You already know enough.


----------



## Thor

Have a VAR running whenever you talk to her! Your head will be spinning and you'll miss much of what she says. You'll wonder later if she really said something, or if you understood her correctly. You need to have a VAR at any confrontation with her.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lostinthought61 said:


> if she is adamant that she did not cheat then tell her to take a polygraph


Polys are a waste of cash.


----------



## seadoug105

If they have been talking in the phone so frequently before...

Did it just stop?? If he is as old as you describe I'm not sure if gramps will suddenly get all app savvy...

And if it did... is it. Possible they are actually together....or could she be with another guy....

Hard to make phone calls with your mouth full.... 🤢


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m done I can’t take this **** anymore. I just confronted her about everything.
> 
> I’ve been searching our entire house looking for burner phone and trying to get ready for my trip. While searching our closet i looked inside her travel bag I found a box of condoms opened and with one missing. *We haven’t used condoms since we been married.* After finding the condoms I lost it and called her. I started to demand answer about what’s been going on. I know it wasn’t the smart move i just couldn’t keep it in anymore. She’s leaving work early so we can talk.


Very odd. Could she also be randomly hooking up? Most cheaters in an affair with a known other man don't bother with condoms. Especially if she's on birth control.


----------



## honcho

Marc878 said:


> Very odd. Could she also be randomly hooking up? Most cheaters in an affair with a known other man don't bother with condoms. Especially if she's on birth control.


The random hookup angle seems more realistic. When I traveled for business I used to see lots of people do some pretty "questionable " things because they were half a country away from home and confident they weren't going to get caught. Not sure why she would save them though if that indeed is the case, they are cheap, toss them in trash when checking out and potential evidence is gone. 

Was the PI able to gather any information on the parking stall? That might give you a clearer angle on who it may be.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

GusPolinski said:


> Polys are a waste of cash.


Not if the WS believes in them and decides to come clean in the parking lot.


----------



## GusPolinski

Tatsuhiko said:


> Not if the WS believes in them and decides to come clean in the parking lot.


And that’s the only real value.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

She at her moms still, both the GPS and P.I can confirm this. A few minutes ago I FaceTime our daughter my wife was the one who set it up. I’m 100% sure she at her moms. 

The P.I has called the burner number multiple times. Each time no one answered and no voice mail has been set up. 

My wife doesn’t really travel for work. Maybe 2-3 a year if that and it’s only for 3 days at most.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> And that’s the only real value.


And the only necessary one.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> She at her moms still, both the GPS and P.I can confirm this. A few minutes ago I FaceTime our daughter my wife was the one who set it up. I’m 100% sure she at her moms.
> 
> The P.I has called the burner number multiple times. Each time no one answered and no voice mail has been set up.
> 
> My wife doesn’t really travel for work. Maybe 2-3 a year if that and it’s only for 3 days at most.


She could have had that travel bag stashed away in her car during her 8 hour shopping trip. You would never notice because it was all done behind your back. 

My point is she did not need to go on a business trip to cheat. 

Has she apologized yet? Do you have a plan when she walks in the door? 

We all know this is tough. Again, sorry you are here.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> She at her moms still, both the GPS and P.I can confirm this. A few minutes ago I FaceTime our daughter my wife was the one who set it up. I’m 100% sure she at her moms.
> 
> The P.I has called the burner number multiple times. Each time no one answered and no voice mail has been set up.
> 
> My wife doesn’t really travel for work. Maybe 2-3 a year if that and it’s only for 3 days at most.


Probably only answers your wife's number. 

Did she make a lot of calls to this one too or was it mostly the OM. He could have a burner phone and this could be him as well.

What messages did you wife leave you?


----------



## Marc878

You need to stay strong. The temptation to contact or make nice will be strong but will not get you what you need.


----------



## Marc878

Have you tried her Google history to see where she's been going?


----------



## Slow Hand

Marc878 said:


> *Probably only answers your wife's number. *
> 
> Did she make a lot of calls to this one too or was it mostly the OM. He could have a burner phone and this could be him as well.
> 
> What messages did you wife leave you?


There’s an app that lets you change the number that shows up in caller id. He could change it to show his wife’s number and see if they pick up.


----------



## manwithnoname

Slow Hand said:


> There’s an app that lets you change the number that shows up in caller id. He could change it to show his wife’s number and see if they pick up.


The only thing that might affect the effectiveness of this is he already let the cat out of the bag, and probably altered the method of contact.


----------



## fotf17

Slow Hand said:


> There’s an app that lets you change the number that shows up in caller id. He could change it to show his wife’s number and see if they pick up.


What app is this?


----------



## Chaparral

No one has ever shown getting fired changes alimony. When a judge sees you’ve been fired for any reason, much less effing the boss, he will tell you to get a job that your alimony will be based on your previous tax returns.

So many people have been busted here with polygraphs I am surprised to see folks tell you they are useless. Just find out who law enforcement in your area uses.

Yes there is an app that lets you make it look like any number you want it to. Even their own phone.

Not letting you see her phone is an admission of guilt. If she lets you have it, be ready to run recovery software on it or you will miss your chance. If she doesn’t tell her to get a lawyer.

If it’s her boss, firing her will get the company sued. It will only get the boss fired unless he owns the company.

Did you check her credit cards the day she was gone for so long or when she got mad and left? 

Any new underwear in her dresser you haven’t seen her wear?


----------



## Slow Hand

fotf17 said:


> What app is this?


Fake call-caller ID


----------



## Chaparral

Can you check her app purchases on the phone bill?


----------



## badmemory

Lostinthought61 said:


> if she is adamant that she did not cheat then tell her to take a polygraph


If she won't show him her phone, she's hardly going to agree to take a poly.

My guess, she'll finally come home and reluctantly show him her phone; but of course it will be completely wiped.


----------



## eric1

badmemory said:


> If she won't show him her phone, she's hardly going to agree to take a poly.
> 
> My guess, she'll finally come home and reluctantly show him her phone; but of course it will be completely wiped.




Then it’s time to roll with Dr Fone and to log onto the App Store to look at any apps installed over past 12 months, then reconcile that list with what is installed on the phone. Do not let games get breezed over. Trivia Crack and Words with Friends all have communications ability.


----------



## Thor

Also some fitness apps are used heavily for affair communications.


----------



## Thor

If she isn't 100% cooperative and 100% remorseful, there is no need to do any more snooping or investigating.

There is also no need to prove to her that she is cheating! She knows she is, OP knows she is, we all know she is. Too many BSs get caught up trying to prove to the cheater they are cheating. Make the strong move and have 'em served if they aren't fully cooperating.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba Steve, nothing to be lost from swift action on your part....file to let her know you will not tolerate infidelity. Should you decide r, you can always withdraw petition for divorce


----------



## Marc878

Thor said:


> If she isn't 100% cooperative and 100% remorseful, there is no need to do any more snooping or investigating.
> 
> There is also no need to prove to her that she is cheating! She knows she is, OP knows she is, we all know she is. Too many BSs get caught up trying to prove to the cheater they are cheating. Make the strong move and have 'em served if they aren't fully cooperating.


Wise words. If you can't take action then you are accepting living with a wayward wife. 

When the trust in a marriage is gone you don't have a marriage. 

Many just stay. Is that the life you want?

Some never get the smoking gun. From her actions it probably wouldn't matter anyway.

Better take some time to think about what you want.


----------



## Malaise

Thor said:


> If she isn't 100% cooperative and 100% remorseful, there is no need to do any more snooping or investigating.
> 
> There is also no need to prove to her that she is cheating! She knows she is, OP knows she is, we all know she is. Too many BSs get caught up trying to prove to the cheater they are cheating. Make the strong move and have 'em served if they aren't fully cooperating.


Yep, you know, she knows. You don't have to prove anything to her.

It may be helpful though to write out for yourself basically what you've told us in a timeline of facts and dates. Complete, methodical, and as unemotional as you can.

This may help, if you do confront her again, with cold facts instead of emotional ramblings. Get your thoughts in order. Calm yourself.

Preparing yourself beforehand wouldn't hurt.

JMO. YMMV


----------



## GusPolinski

eric1 said:


> Then it’s time to roll with Dr Fone and to log onto the App Store to look at any apps installed over past 12 months, then reconcile that list with what is installed on the phone. Do not let games get breezed over. Trivia Crack and Words with Friends all have communications ability.


Dr. Fone has kind of gone to crap in recent years. I found a new app a few weeks ago that works pretty well — it will even recover deleted Safari history.

Can’t remember the name but I’ll find it and post a link to it later today.


----------



## manwithnoname

Thor said:


> If she isn't 100% cooperative and 100% remorseful, there is no need to do any more snooping or investigating.
> 
> *There is also no need to prove to her that she is cheating!* She knows she is, OP knows she is, we all know she is. Too many BSs get caught up trying to prove to the cheater they are cheating. Make the strong move and have 'em served if they aren't fully cooperating.


This is true, but I would think some people would like to have evidence to show family and friends after they've been made to look like the bad one.


----------



## drifting on

So your wife set up a FaceTime call to your daughter, meaning, she wants to act as all is normal. Scuba, only you can decide this, but I would call the grandpa bosses phone. I would say that you have spent quite a bit of time talking to my wife, then ask why. Why during work ours on personal cell phones? Why wasn’t work communications used if for work reasons? Why would need to talk for hours? What would your wife think if she knew of this? Does your wife know how much you communicate with my wife? 

Your not accusing of an affair, just asking questions. However this puts pressure on OM, OM believes you may notify his wife and that the secret is now exposed as to how much communication. Will this cause it to go underground more, sure it will, and just like me you are already handicapped by not seeing work communications. What I mean here is that if they work together you have no idea the communication or time together. I wouldn’t worry about it going underground, it’s already there. What you have access to is your communications, and that is only half of it. 

Amp up the pressure, right now you have condoms in your home you didn’t purchase. Ask your wife who, besides yourself, could have put them there? The condom fairy? What is the expiration date? Why have we had sex without condoms since we married and suddenly a box arrives? How did it get in her personal belongings? Don’t give me this **** that you don’t know. Ask your daughter if she put them there. Then hammer the communications with the grandpa boss. Make up a nickname for the boss, such as fossil f——r or prehistoric ****. Make the difference in ages sound as gross as possibly. You need to shake the psyche of your wife, and for this you stop at nothing. Then back to the condoms, have you figured out a good excuse yet? Did someone break into the house and leave us a box of condoms in your personal belongings? Make up stupid excuses as to why and how the conforms got their. Basically you ridicule every answer she gives. Pressure, presssur, pressure!!!!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Condom fairy!


----------



## x598

SS

want to know why you skank cheating wife ran off to mommies?

two reasons. first, she simply doesn't know ho to react as she doesn't know how much you know, just that you know "something". this busy her time to discover what you know so she can come up with a BS story to cover.

second, and I hope you listen, but your wife is painting you out to be the bad guy to mommy. several reason for this. it justifies her actions, it get mommy on her side morally and makes you look like the bad guy.

I guarantee she is making claims to mommy how you are abusive, spying or invading her privacy....blah blah blah. you need to wait unitll she goes to work, show up at mommies unannounced and sit down with her and explain the situation calmly and rationally.

then more than likely you wife will really blow a gasket


----------



## bandit.45

Scuba_Steve said:


> Either way divorce is going to kill me financially with or with our her job. We make about the same but the difference is my work salary isn't my only income unlike her.


What would be worse: 

Living lean and sharing an apartment with a roommate for a while until your finances settle out; OR, 

Living the rest of your life with a treacherous person whom you cannot trust, always looking over your shoulder?


----------



## x598

bandit.45 said:


> What would be worse:
> 
> Living lean and sharing an apartment with a roommate for a while until your finances settle out; OR,
> 
> Living the rest of your life with a treacherous person whom you cannot trust, always looking over your shoulder?


OP you mention how a divorce will be so costly. 

if $$$ is more important to you than your integrity, then you may as well just go buy her lingerie right now for her romps and bury your head in the sand and be at peace with being the ultimate chump and doormat.

instead of waffling around, you should be mad as hell.


----------



## Noble1

Keep strong. Based on your 'wife's' reactions, you have all the proof that you need for yourself.

Yes, you want more and concrete proof but in your heart you really do not need more.

On the financial front, yeah its going to hurt but from what I understand it does get better over time.

How much do you value yourself is the more important question.

Good luck.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

My wife and I have talked she’s on her way home with our daughter. It’s about a 30 min drive to our house. I’m not ready to talk to her yet, mostly because I don’t want to hear more of her lies. But the way I see it, it's better too get it over with now then wait and do it later.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I have talked she’s on her way home with our daughter. It’s about a 30 min drive to our house. I’m not ready to talk to her yet, mostly because I don’t want to hear more of her lies. But the way I see it, it's better too get it over with now then wait and do it later.


VAR.

Also, VAR.

Additionally, VAR.

And don’t forget about VAR.

Or VAR.

ETA: Just to be clear, I’m pointing out that a) you should _surreptitiously_ record any ensuing conversation with your wife, AS WELL AS retrieve the VAR from her car as quickly (and discretely) as possible.


----------



## manwithnoname

GusPolinski said:


> VAR.
> 
> Also, VAR.
> 
> Additionally, VAR.
> 
> And don’t forget about VAR.
> 
> Or VAR.



Gus, I think you forgot VAR.

OP, VAR on you but also check out the one in the vehicle.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I have talked she’s on her way home with our daughter. It’s about a 30 min drive to our house. I’m not ready to talk to her yet, mostly because I don’t want to hear more of her lies. But the way I see it, it's better too get it over with now then wait and do it later.


Have either of you been back to work since she left the house?

Also, be mindful that any offer on her part to show you her phone (or laptop, tablet, or whatever) at this point is worthless, as she’s had a couple of days to remove anything from them.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

It will be easy to ignore her as your child is awake. But once you child goes to sleep your wife may not shut up. Try and stay calm. Easier said I know. 

Keep a var on. It is not unheard of for spouses to manufacture a fight to get the police there and get the other spouse kicked out. 

Are you ready for the who gets the bedroom conversation?


----------



## Marc878

Move her out of your bedroom. No sex and remove your wedding band.

Better be ready to end the marriage if you want a chance at truth. You don’t have to be an ass just refuse to live in this.

You can’t stay strong she will take control and you’ll live on her terms.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

GusPolinski said:


> Have either of you been back to work since she left the house?
> 
> Also, be mindful that any offer on her part to show you her phone (or laptop, tablet, or whatever) at this point is worthless, as she’s had a couple of days to remove anything from them.


I would not say worthless. If he hooks up and does deep forensics he might find more. Just re-installing deleted apps for instance and snippets of pics say and messages. 

Just having phone hooked up for a few hours might make her nervous.


----------



## stro

Stay super calm and collected. Act like you already have all the details and you are just waiting to hear them from her. Don’t let it turn into a shouting match.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> Have either of you been back to work since she left the house?
> 
> Also, be mindful that any offer on her part to show you her phone (or laptop, tablet, or whatever) at this point is worthless, as she’s had a couple of days to remove anything from them.


No the office was closed today and yesterday.


Yes I know but I'm hoping my P.I might be able to do something.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> No the office was closed today and yesterday.
> 
> 
> Yes I know but I'm hoping my P.I might be able to do something.


Good luck Scuba. Just listen to her and then give yourself time to process it before doing or saying anything in anger. Remember your daughter and be calm for her sake.


----------



## GusPolinski

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I would not say worthless. If he hooks up and does deep forensics he might find more. Just re-installing deleted apps for instance and snippets of pics say and messages.
> 
> Just having phone hooked up for a few hours might make her nervous.


The _gesture_ is worthless.


----------



## Tobyboy

Do not give up your sources!! Do not mention suspected OM’s names!! Let her do the explaining! The condoms are your only proof (as far as your wife knows) Use that to break her!


----------



## Suspicious1

manwithnoname said:


> Gus, I think you forgot VAR.
> 
> OP, VAR on you but also check out the one in the vehicle.


If not at arms length, get an VAR app on your phone and practice how it works pronto!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Suspicious1

stro said:


> Stay super calm and collected. Act like you already have all the details and you are just waiting to hear them from her. Don’t let it turn into a shouting match.


She might want to take it there, a shouting maych aka ("the look I'm angrier just as much as you are), so yeah don't lose your cool. As its what people try to do when they've been caught!

Good luck 

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

You are controlling and jealous is cheaterspeak for I need my privacy to cheat.

Plays like a broken record


----------



## Sports Fan

I predicted early on its possibly the old dinosaur. Gus forgot to tel you retrieve the VAR. Chances are they are using apps like PI said. However the VAR might just flush out a panicked conversation with the affair partner or a girlfriend in the know. Do not be surprised if you hear something like Sh...it Scuba knows what the fu .ck am i going to do then be prepared to listen to a bunch of heartbreaking and cunniving stories being put together to decieve you.


----------



## eric1

Good luck bud


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Hang firm and tough. Do not allow her to even attempt to blame you.
You have to be like a piece of steel.


----------



## Chaparral

Biggest concern now is avoiding getting kicked out by the police.
That’s the biggest reason for keeping one on you all the time now.

I’m guessing those pesky conundrums have logical explanation now. Probably hiding them for her friend. DID YOU CHECK THE DATES ON THEM?

Do not leave your house before talking to a lawyer but better to tell her to leave. It’s been said leaving and “abandoning”’the kids can cost in custody depending on where you live.
As best you can be cold and collected and at least appear To be in total control and sticking to your principles.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

It took her this long to wipe everything and get a good story together?


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> No the office was closed today and yesterday.


Really?

Why?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

GusPolinski said:


> Really?
> 
> Why?


Snowstorm in north east


----------



## bankshot1993

People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Everything she has done to this point is about deception. She refused to let you look at her phone when you asked and then took a couple days to cover her tracks and get her story straight. If it honestly was the case of a spouse being tired of an overly jealous, controlling spouse the reaction would have been different. She would have jumped at the chance to show you her phone so she could rub your nose in the fact that you were wrong but instead she ran and took a couple days to get everything sorted out.

Don't get sucked in.


----------



## wmn1

keep at it, man. I think something is definitely up. You will find it


----------



## Taxman

Sir, you showed your hand way too early. Best bet is to back off, and let your PI do the legwork. If she did talk to anyone from the car, and mind you, she may be hyper-vigilant at the moment, it will be on the VAR. Now is the time for cool.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Snag the VAR out of her car. Do not let her know you are retrieving it. It will very likely tell you all you need to know.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Now is the time you get cold, ice cold, do not talk to her at all until children are asleep. Any answer she gives you say bull ****. Force the condom issue, ask if she would believe if roles were reversed. Then keep hammering away at it. After thirty minutes and she still says she has no idea how the condoms got there, tell her you will contact an attorney. You cannot believe that she has no idea how the condoms got there and she is willing to lose everything over a stupid lie. She may say how they got there, and then you hammer her for the deception, the buying of condoms, and how can she be trusted now? Tell her someone had to buy the condoms, someone had to put them in the closet, and in her belongings means they are hers.

Pressure her to the point she leaves again, that’s truthfully best for you anyway. After she leaves call her mom and tell her she left the house because you found her purchase of condoms. Tell her mom you haven’t used them since you got married and that your wife has “no idea” how they got in her personal belongings. Then drop a snippet that she talks to someone else far more then she talks to you and hang up. Let wifey explain to mom that she has no idea how condoms got into her closet.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

We’ve talked. She started off saying how much she loved me and our little family. Any problems we might have can be solved between us since our love is that strong. She spent a good 15 min saying BS like that. I cut her off and told her knew what was happening. After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake. She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now. The only thing that matter was moving on together and reliving the past wouldn’t help us. She figured out that I didn't have as she I lead her to believe. We went back and forth I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.

After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow


----------



## stro

Oh Wow, sounds like she was pretty causual about it. She should have been on her knees begging for forgiveness. Does she think she can brush it off that easily? You can’t let her. I understand if you still love her and want to recover. Your choice. But if I were in your position I would tell her it’s full disclosure RIGHT NOW or we are done. She has to feel that pressure. You can not recover if she doesn’t lay her heart out on the table for you. She doesn’t sound remotely remorseful.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> We’ve talked. She started off saying how much she loved me and our little family. Any problems we might have can be solved between us since our love is that strong. She spent a good 15 min saying BS like that. I cut her off and told her knew what was happening. After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake. She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now. The only thing that matter was moving on together and reliving the past wouldn’t help us. She figured out that I didn't have as she I lead her to believe. We went back and forth I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.
> 
> After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow


Back up the VAR before you do anything else. That includes going to sleep.

And, as I’m sure you’ve already figured out, her refusal to answer questions means that there can be no reconciliation. Do NOT waver on this.

Start talking with divorce attorneys tomorrow morning.

Oh, and DNA your kid.

She’ll likely pull all out the stops to you to bang her — that’s why (or _part_ of why) she’s upset that you won’t sleep in the same bed with her. Don’t take the bait, lest you wind up even MORE attached to her once she has an “oopsie” with her birth control.


----------



## Gabriel

She was dumped by her OM. Now she wants to rugsweep. Classic.


----------



## x598

Scuba_Steve said:


> We’ve talked. She started off saying how much she loved me and our little family. Any problems we might have can be solved between us since our love is that strong. She spent a good 15 min saying BS like that. I cut her off and told her knew what was happening. After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake. She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now. The only thing that matter was moving on together and reliving the past wouldn’t help us. She figured out that I didn't have as she I lead her to believe. We went back and forth I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.
> 
> After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow



biggest crock of minimalizing and total unremorseful.

I would hit her with divorce papers immediately. 

all she is doing is gaslighting you to death.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Do the DNA swab on your child in front of your wife. This will help her understand how deep the consequences of her affair go, how impossible this is to sweep under the rug.


----------



## GusPolinski

stro said:


> Oh Wow, sounds like she was pretty causual about it. She should have been on her knees begging for forgiveness. Does she think she can brush it off that easily? You can’t let her. I understand if you still love her and want to recover. Your choice. But if I were in your position I would tell her it’s full disclosure RIGHT NOW or we are done. She has to feel that pressure. You can not recover if she doesn’t lay her heart out on the table for you. She doesn’t sound remotely remorseful.


Yep.

“If you don’t love me or our ‘little family’ enough to answer every single question that I have (and RIGHT. ****ING. NOW), then you don’t love it enough to save it from divorce.”


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Real quick as I’m very short on time. Her not telling you who OM is is because she is protecting him. Everything she says say to reverse the roles and would she accept this from you. Next tell her the affair is over but it’s brand new to you, and that she will answer all questions if she loves you and her little family. Call her mom, say she cheated and that she’s coming back to live with her full time. You will not allow a cheater to be around your daughter after she cheated on her too. Mom may get upset, and oh well, but tell her that your daughter will not be leaving with someone who can choose to blow up her kids life. Tell your wife to leave in the morning, or if she tries to talk to you again, then tell her she can’t take your daughter as she does not have the child’s best interest at heart. That will frost her ass. Do as @GusPolinski says to do, then get your ass in an attorneys office.


----------



## x598

a woman this cold will feel entitled to have done what she did. good luck ever get anything out of her.

I would expose to the rest of the family immediately. the only way this woman will ever realize the magnitude of what she has done is when it happens to her.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> We’ve talked. She started off saying how much she loved me and our little family. Any problems we might have can be solved between us since our love is that strong.
> 
> I want you to just forget about me cheating and suck it up. And keep my dirty little secret to yourself at your expense of course
> 
> She spent a good 15 min saying BS like that. I cut her off and told her knew what was happening. After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. *She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake.*
> 
> Nope, it was a planned decision. Oh and BTW sorry. It's all better now, right?
> 
> She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now.
> 
> Nope, shes lying and wanting you to help hide the affair. You'll never be able to live in a marriage with a deceitful wife. Rugsweep 101 is what she wants
> 
> *The only thing that matter was moving on together and reliving the past wouldn’t help us. *
> 
> Cheater speak. I want to screw my other man without consequences at your expense
> 
> She figured out that I didn't have as she I lead her to believe. We went back and forth I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.
> 
> All I did was screw another man behind your back if you don't rugsweep this I'll pout.
> 
> After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow


You back down now you're toast. Take off your ring and start getting the paperwork ready.

She's not in the least remourseful and wants to keep her other man a secret. The affair will continue just deeper underground.

You have nothing to work with here. You stay in this it will be pain, agony and you'll regret it later.

You can waste years and end up with the same result. Cut your losses now if you're smart


----------



## Gabriel

In your shoes, I'd just go cold, just like others have said. She has no idea what kind of husband she is dealing with. I know how to do cold about as well as I know how to breathe. I'll share.

Offer zero affection. In fact, act as apathetic as possible. Don't treat her like an enemy, but instead like nothing about her matters to you. If she engages in conversation about the affair, sit down several feet away from her, look her in the eye like you are listening to a clinical patient telling you about their aches and pains. But definitely take in the information. If she doesn't offer you anything you want her to admit, shrug you shoulders and tell her you're done listening until she has something real to say.

Going about your day, don't make eye contact, go about your business. Go for a run, or a workout. Tell her you're going out with some friends, like it's no big deal. 

Sleep in the other room, be attentive to your kid, keep busy like you don't need her.

Let me tell you man, this will driver her crazy, OR, she'll grow distant as well. Either way, you are doing what you need to do. 

While doing this, make your arrangements. Get a lawyer and don't hide it. Let her know with your ACTIONS that you are fully prepared to move on with your life.


----------



## Marc878

x598 said:


> a woman this cold will feel entitled to have done what she did. good luck ever get anything out of her.
> 
> I would expose to the rest of the family immediately. the only way this woman will ever realize the magnitude of what she has done is when it happens to her.


Most of the time her family will side with her. I suspect her parents have coached her already.


----------



## Marc878

Send her back to her moms. She's acting like she's entitled to have an an affair. You try and live with that in your life it'll get old real quick.


----------



## Gabriel

Marc878 said:


> Most of the time her family will side with her. I suspect her parents have coached her already.


Her family will absolutely side with her. But this will be because she has already likely complained a ton about her husband to them, priming them for affair justification.


----------



## stro

Oh and if you do end up in the same bed as her be ready for a sex barrage. Some women in her position do this to confuse and manipulate you.


----------



## Marc878

I gotta be honest her buying condoms for her other man to screw her with is pretty devious. She probably did a lot of planning etc. as well. She's put a lot of thought into it.

Take a good look. This is part of who she is. The side of her you never realized.

She's not in a fog. It didn't just happen. It was very much pre meditated.

Don't underestimate what you're dealing with here.

You can't trust her at all.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba_Steve said:


> We’ve talked. She started off saying how much she loved me and our little family. Any problems we might have can be solved between us since our love is that strong. She spent a good 15 min saying BS like that. I cut her off and told her knew what was happening. After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake. She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now. The only thing that matter was moving on together and reliving the past wouldn’t help us. She figured out that I didn't have as she I lead her to believe. We went back and forth I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.
> 
> After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow


First of all she did not make a mistake. She made a decision. She is simply sorry she has been caught. 

Move her clothes out of your room or better yet pack them for her and tell her to get the **** out. “She says she loves you and your little family.” You better call bull**** on that one. If she loved you and your children she never would have ****ed POSOM.
Do not believe her when she says it is over. Let her know you are filing for divorce and let her parents know, too. She thinks she can say she is sorry and like Rosanne Rosannadanna “Never mind”.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> After pressuring her for a minute she admitted to the affair and that condoms did belong to her. She claimed she was sorry and that it was a mistake. She promised it would never happen again. I made the mistake in thinking she was and would be honest. I asked her who the OM was. She declined to answer saying it didn’t matter anymore since the affair is over now.
> 
> 
> I realized this conversation wasn’t get us nowhere. So I told her I was done. She looked upset by the fact I wasn’t playing her game. After awhile she tried to play it off as if everything was fine as if nothing had happened. Now she back to being angry because I refuse to sleep in the same room as her.
> 
> After she went to bed I snuck out to get the VAR. I haven’t listened to it yet I’m planning on doing it tomorrow


Part 1: She is a minimizing, gaslighting liar, but I'm sure you know that already. The affair is also not over as I'm sure you know. She not about to give up the other man.

Part 2: She is not remorseful in the slightest. She doesn't give a damn. All she cares about is you being dumb. Prove her wrong. Let her be angry. Better yet, let her be furious when you have her ass served at work.

Part 3: I hope she was stupid enough to blab her face off and that you got it all on the VAR. Im rooting for you to get the evidence of her POSOM. If it's her boss get his ass fired!

Pulling for you, man. Stay steady!


----------



## Marc878

What shes telling you is her other mans identity is worth more than you and the marriage.

I think you're smarter than most in this position. 

She still thinks you can be manipulated and controlled.

You've gotten enough knowledge to understand this.

Apply the hard 180 immediately.


----------



## Marc878

You did put a fresh VAR back in her car, correct? If you didn't do so now.

You put the pressure on her you may get it now.


----------



## Marc878

sorry man she put you where you are but you're the on that's going to have to deal wit it effectively


----------



## Windwalker

OP, take every post since your last one very very seriously. Like your life depends on it. As cold as this thing called your stbxw is, there's no telling the stunts she will pull. Keep a VAR on your person at all times around her. She's devious, and I'd put nothing past her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Read up on the 180.Tomorrow you need to implement it. Do not engage her in any conversation. Pretend she does not exist as much as possible. Ideally, she should leave the house. You need time away from her to clear your mind. Be on guard, she is like a trapped animal.


----------



## Marc878

The 180


The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

ScubaSteve, don't let her know any more that what you have so far as to the evidence you have collected as in call logs and such.

Be careful in what you hear on the var and throwing it back at her. Assuming VAR it is still in car or hasn't been wiped. She appears pretty devious. I'd be surprised if she hasn't already searched the car. 

Honestly although you do have a baby you only have 7 years with her 5 married right? I would push divorce asap, as in filing this week. You are still young and can start fresh with someone without the cheating virus. You mentioned divorce being expensive but that is an expense that can be made up. What you can't make up is wasting decades being miserable policing a women who just refuses not to stray and continues to cheat. In the end she will just divorce you anyway, like when the child heads off to college. Then the divorce will be really expensive, financially and emotionally.

Have you considered just slipping into her bedroom and just walking out the door with the phone? When she calls say pin code now or I'll give back you after I finish paying my attorney retainer to file for divorce. If she complies drop off phone with PI for deep dig. Then give phone back and divorce her anyway. If she refuses just give it back and pack her a suitcase.


----------



## Malaise

About the condoms:

Only one was used? Did she bang him only once or is this her second pack?


----------



## Tobyboy

Scuba, Think about this. Why would your wife admit an affair but refuse to give you his name? 

Answer: Because there’s more than just one OM.


----------



## Sports Fan

Scuba sorry about your pain. Don't be fooled for a second. The affair is ongoing that's why she won't tell you who it is and that's why she still had the condoms. As I've stated twice before I'm betting its the old Dinosaur. 

You need to stay firm and act swiftly. Have you seperated any joint finances yet? If not do so immediately. Take her off any of your joint credit cards. I would also confront the old Dinosaur at work. Don't warn her just do it. Tell him that she was acting shady for a while you had her followed bi a PI, based on her phone records and that the phone logs to him were damning. Tell him she admitted to an affair.

Seek out a Good Divorce Lawyer and DNA the kids to prove your point. As others have posted be aware of the likely barrage of sex on tap that will be offered up. 

Stay Strong my man. You have plenty of support here.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Careful about having her served at work. Since both you work for the same company, it could conceivably cost both of your jobs.

2. Do not approach her boss. The threat of you going to HR about this should be held back as a bargaining chip in breaking the affair or in divorce negotiations.

3. Hide a VAR in your bedroom as soon as possible. While you are out of the bedroom, she may be calling from there also.

4. Demand a full timeline of the affair. If she polys this will be a useful basis for checking her honesty.

5. Demand STD test results for her. Get yourself checked also. Let her know that you are doing this.

6. DNA your child. Let her know this is being done also.

7. Get ahold of OM's wife with the news that your wife admitted the affair when you verify his identity. DO NOT tell her you are doing this.

8. Your wife gets a new job. No excuses. You will find how much she values her little family over this one.

9. If she moves out, tell her to communicate with you through the lawyer, by text, or email.

10. Entitlement is strong with this one. Either you break that, or your marriage is done.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

My wife had a workplace affair, we both work for the same company, my wife’s affair lasted six months, she ended the affair and confessed two and a half years later, she deceived me as to who the father is of my boys, I didn’t ever think I would get the concrete proof or confession. Our stories are similar, barring the children, which is why I said to apply pressure, I didn’t and that was my mistake. After I got the confession from her I applied pressure on both my wife and OM. In fact he hasn’t had a job since he worked with my wife with the exception of two weeks. That’s the consequence I placed on him, a monetary one. Some will tell you I’m wrong, OM didn’t make vows to me, but he knew she was married, he knew me, he tried to be my friend. OM may just be someone very close to you, or maybe there are many, this you will need to figure out. 

Tell your wife to go back to her moms, that you need time to process that your wife allowed another man inside her. Then get cold, the only lives you care about are you and your daughter. Do not answer any texts or calls from your wife. If she calls excessively call her mother and threaten to expose very publicly, that the humiliation will be intense. You will put letters on cars at church, tell all the neighbors, place it on a billboard, you will advertise her as a hooker who doesn’t get paid. I told my wife I wanted to put this on a billboard, the look on her face was priceless, it was then my wife realized she had no idea who I was. I became someone she didn’t know, someone I never showed to her because she had my heart, until she crossed me. 

A little pressure and look what happened, she confessed, and she didn’t confess because mom said it was the right thing to do. No, she left because you found the condoms, she came home early thinking she could snow you. She came back from her moms because she thinks if she admits it that this will end. Tell her to think again. Tell her to to you who OM is, if she doesn’t you will get very public with your exposure, and be questioning every male she has had contact with. Right now the grandpa boss is your leading candidate, and if all the calls just suddenly stopped, don’t think burner phone. If the calls just stopped then ask yourself why, they communicated for hours on personal phones, why just stop? You were getting to close to finding something? They switched to an app? No, that’s not what happened, something major happened and that’s why they stopped. 

I’ve been telling you to call grandpa bosses wife, let her in on this. Or did I tell you to call because SHE found out and all communication stopped? I think that OM’s wife found out, and she hasn’t contacted you, maybe because grandpa boss refuses to say who also. Contact grandpa bosses wife after you leave your attorneys office tomorrow, you might just have a very enlightening conversation. Now you will be a step ahead of your wife, you will know and can threaten exposure to HR on both of them. You can also list OM on your divorce papers along with adultery as the reason. Once again you are applying pressure very easily and that keeps everyone but you off balance. Start to act a little bit like a loose cannon and you will be applying even more pressure. Say things in public about the affair, say how would it look on social media, you don’t have to do it but it will make people squirm. 

Next you need to breathe, slow deep breaths and focus on your health. Easier said then done but you need to do this. Right now you are in shock, many more emotions are going to hit you very soon. Find a very trusted friend and tell them what is going on. Ask that they help when you need it. Consider counseling, scratch that, find a therapist to help with getting yourself healthy. If you need anything feel free to pm me, I’ll do what I can to help you through. Best of luck to you.


----------



## eric1

I am always the one pushing exposure but I do think the best next step is to demand her phone from her and demand a full written timeline, including names. If she’s unwilling to give those things to you then just don’t even talk about it...just get those papers served.

Also everyone is overthinking why there have been no calls. It’s underground. It may even be on ice. But it’s not over.


----------



## Chaparral

Did she say when and where? Does the when add up with the phone calls?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Tobyboy said:


> Scuba, Think about this. Why would your wife admit an affair but refuse to give you his name?
> 
> Answer: Because there’s more than just one OM.


Other possible reasons in the order I think likely:

Scuba has some kind of relationship with OM (brother, friend, coworker, *boss*, priest, etc.)

She wants to continue the affair while pretending to end it.

She never got their names (random craigslist hookups).


----------



## eric1

It’s because she wants to protect him. It could be because the affair is underground or on ice. It could be because he’s a mutual contact.

It doesn’t matter. That she is putting her boyfriend’s needs over Scuba’s needs is what is material here.


----------



## Chaparral

When you are at work do you have the opportunity to be around her bosses?


----------



## Taxman

Scuba, she is reeling and is not thinking clearly. She went to her parents to come up with some way of fixing this without admitting. Now she has partially admitted. Now you want the identity of the OM. That should be on the VAR. Let your PI know she has admitted, take her phone and give it to the PI, tell her it is a condition of her staying. 

You should know who the OM is shortly. Next move, up to you. What do you want? R or D? 
If you want the marriage, you need to crush this affair, and make it so repugnant to her, that she will do anything to fix this.


----------



## bankshot1993

This reminds me of a thread on SI. Guy found out his wife was having a workplace affair but refused to expose Om identity. This ended up being the breaking point for him. He decided that if she valued protecting Om identity over saving their marriage than there was nothing to save. They ended up divorcing and he never found out.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

If and when you do talk to her, ask open ended questions such as “why?” “How long?” “What were you thinking?””Would you like me to have an affair? How would that make you feel?”

Then you slide in to the,”Well, I am certain since you will not tell me I can only assume you are a liar and the affair is still ongoing.”

Next you take your ring off and ask for the engagement ring back since this marriage is dead and you killed it.

Lastly, in front of her you call her parents, tell them three people in the marriage is too many and you are sending her home, you then ask her to vacate the house.

She needs to experience consequences.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

eric1 said:


> It’s because she wants to protect him. It could be because the affair is underground or on ice. It could be because he’s a mutual contact.
> 
> *It doesn’t matter. That she is putting her boyfriend’s needs over Scuba’s needs is what is material here.*


 QFT.
All the conjecture is just static. She feels the OM is worthy of protecting over her husband at his cost. That says it all. 
Scuba means nothing to her any longer except a safety net. For me, this alone would be more than enough reason to file.


----------



## bankshot1993

SS, one more very important note.

If you get new information, especially about the OM's identity, be careful how you play it. any new info you get from the VAR or any other sources, you need to play it off as though you knew it all along. 

Your strategy here is, look, I know a lot more than I have let on and I know more than you think. To this point I have been giving you a chance to be honest so I can decide if I even want to consider R. R is going to be based entirely on your honesty and your transparency, to this point is has been a test that you have been failing miserably, your chances and options are very quickly running out.

With this said though, I do agree with other posters that she is placing the OM's protection above your needs and interests, this right here is the end of the relationship.


----------



## TAMAT

I think OM realized WW was becoming an enormous liability, he has a life he built up over decades and a work reputation and salary, and now it's is all in jeopardy so it's likely OM dumped her she became an inconvenience. Even more so if he is the grandpa because SS might beat him into a pulp, and what Grandpa has the energy to deal with the drama of someone elses broken family and a young child.

Unfortunately WW believes the opposite that OM dumped her to save their marriages and because he is a profoundly decent person. This fantasy needs to be destroyed if SS is ever to recover his marriage.

To that end the OM needs to be massively exposed, church, family, friends, facebook, linkedin, posters in his neighborhood, etc. Do it all at once and without warning or threats. 

Tamat


----------



## Nucking Futs

TAMAT said:


> I think OM realized WW was becoming an enormous liability, he has a life he built up over decades and a work reputation and salary, and now it's is all in jeopardy so it's likely OM dumped her she became an inconvenience. Even more so if he is the grandpa because SS might beat him into a pulp, and what Grandpa has the energy to deal with the drama of someone elses broken family and a young child.
> 
> Unfortunately WW believes the opposite that OM dumped her to save their marriages and because he is a profoundly decent person. This fantasy needs to be destroyed if SS is ever to recover his marriage.
> 
> To that end the OM needs to be massively exposed, church, family, friends, facebook, linkedin, posters in his neighborhood, etc. Do it all at once and without warning or threats.
> 
> Tamat


I agree with this, but don't say anything you can't prove in court.


----------



## Primrose

Just know that, as long as she is protecting OM (by keeping his identity a secret), she is actively continuing to put him before your marriage. 

I truly hope you don't settle for this BS.


----------



## x598

OP
I don't think she is actively "protecting the other man".

what she is doing in my opinion is doing anything and everything to cover her OWN sorry a$$.

she figures the more you know....makes her look worse.

my guess would be she can play this off as in isolated one time "oopsie" and its over now, no harm no foul.

another possibility is you know the OM making this sting that much more because its essentially like rubbing your nose in it.

sorry you are here but her actions have shown this goes a lot deeper than you have even the faintest clue about. they always do.


----------



## stro

x598 said:


> OP
> I don't think she is actively "protecting the other man".
> 
> what she is doing in my opinion is doing anything and everything to cover her OWN sorry a$$.
> 
> she figures the more you know....makes her look worse.
> 
> my guess would be she can play this off as in isolated one time "oopsie" and its over now, no harm no foul.
> 
> another possibility is you know the OM making this sting that much more because its essentially like rubbing your nose in it.
> 
> sorry you are here but her actions have shown this goes a lot deeper than you have even the faintest clue about. they always do.


 she obviously wants to protect herself but I think she also wants to protect the OM. Evidence suggests it was the OM who ended the affair not her. It’s possible she still has feelings for him. Plus if it is a work place affair with a boss it could have serious consequences for both of them if found out. So She has incentive to protect him for multiple reasons. If Steve does what we hope and demands full disclosure she will have to choose. Possibly Her job and her bosses job + public humiliation OR her family.


----------



## Primrose

x598 said:


> OP
> I don't think she is actively "protecting the other man".
> 
> what she is doing in my opinion is doing anything and everything to cover her OWN sorry a$$.
> 
> she figures the more you know....makes her look worse.
> 
> my guess would be she can play this off as in isolated one time "oopsie" and its over now, no harm no foul.
> 
> another possibility is you know the OM making this sting that much more because its essentially like rubbing your nose in it.
> 
> sorry you are here but her actions have shown this goes a lot deeper than you have even the faintest clue about. they always do.


Keeping his identity a secret shields the OM from the direct fall out of exposure, so yes, it is protecting him.


----------



## Thor

Scuba, I'm sorry it has turned out to be an affair. But the truth really will set you free.

Not all is lost. Remember two things. First, to save your marriage you have to be willing to lose it. She has to believe in her heart that you are moving towards divorce before she is likely to hit that rock bottom where she starts to realize her fantasy life is about to become a nightmare. Second, this is a process which involves time. She has a window of opportunity here to turn herself around. A few days, a couple of weeks maybe. She may yet come to her senses and show true remorse. If that happens, and if she is willing to work hard on R with you, the divorce may be stopped.

While good successful R is not a frequent outcome, it does happen. The past 24 hours have not been on the right track for successful R, but it isn't ruled out yet.

Follow the general advice on your thread. Do the 180. File for divorce, demand she have an STD test and show you the results, get yourself STD tested, and do have your wife witness you DNA testing your child. All of these things are important for your physical and mental health, but also will impress on her the severity of what she has done. These things may be the shove she needs to genuinely work on R.

In the end, you should seek what is best for your happiness. The immediate process and the mid-term process are not fun, but they will result in the best possible outcome for you. Either you will find a successful happy R, or you will find a happy future divorced.

The worst outcome is for you to stumble along and end up in a sad marriage with an unrepentant cheater. This outcome would also be the worst for your child.

No matter what happens, you will handle it! You're in the worst part right now, but you can steer this to the best outcome possible under the circumstances, whatever that outcome turns out to be.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve if and when you speak with her, alway ask rhetorically,how would you feel? I learned this from my MC. Women are all about feelings.


----------



## sa58

I think there is a very strong possibility that the om is her boss.
She talked a lot about him then when she ss became 
uncomfortable she stopped. She also does not like tattoos 
maybe she has a fear of needles and certain diseases 
(STDS, other blood disease etc) May be that is what the condoms 
were for? She did seem to know a lot about his unseen tattoos. 
If her boss is also ss then this maybe why she is covering for him.
How would this look for her if other people knew she was having 
an affair with her boss.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Hang in there brother. You're getting a lot of good advice here. Stay strong and update us when you can.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I haven’t been able to read all the updated posts. I just wanted to give you guys a quick update about what I found on the VAR. 

My wife didn’t call the OM directly but she did talk to a friend about me finding out. I’m sure who the friend was but I don’t really think that matters. Anyway during the conversation with her friend I was able confirm who the OM and it’s the grandpa. Which is sickening the guy has 30 plus years on her. I still can’t understand why him of all of all people. I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. It would make sense given the phone calls stop showing up about month ago and the P.I also wasn’t able to find anything. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it end.

My wife stayed home today. She didn’t go work to day. I step VAR in our room and our home office I plan to check both before I go to sleep today.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You now have enough. Call “Grandma”. Call HR through lawyer of course. You have grounds to sue, and there appear to be severe repucussions for company and Grampa . Boom Boom out go the lights. Well done on your part.


----------



## sa58

Does grandpa have a lot of money?
Showering someone with attention and gifts maybe?
Just like lonely husband 42301 said CALL GRANDMA!!
Don't forget to expose her affair with an old man to
family and everybody else.


----------



## Evinrude58

Stay calm. Don't make any big decisions in an emotional state. Lawyer up and get advice.

You SHOULD call grandma. Grandma needs to know, and you will have the added benefit of knowing without a doubt that grandpa is feeling some heat and will likely throw your wife under the bus, covering his own ass. This will cement in your wife's mind what an ******* he is. 

File for divorce. Learn from your attorney if it's wise to expose grandpa at work. You SHOULD divorce your wife, from what I've read. And, you NEED her working if you're going to have money to live on.

Regardless, your wife needs to WITNESS for herself that you are not a wimpy puppy that will tolerate this. You need to SHOW HER that you WON'T tolerate a cheater, regardless of whether you have thoughts NOW of reconciling. Please, you have to steel yourself and get away from all this for a while. This incredible pain you're in will make you screw up any chances of a happy life. You'll either show weakness and she'll lose respect and cheat again, or you'll cave and rug sweep and she'll in the end, divorce you out of loss of love due to loss of respect.

Hang in there. It will get better, no matter what happens. It will just take a while. So sorry.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been able to read all the updated posts. I just wanted to give you guys a quick update about what I found on the VAR.
> 
> My wife didn’t call the OM directly but she did talk to a friend about me finding out. I’m sure who the friend was but I don’t really think that matters. Anyway during the conversation with her friend I was able confirm who the OM and it’s the grandpa. Which is sickening the guy has 30 plus years on her. I still can’t understand why him of all of all people. I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. It would make sense given the phone calls stop showing up about month ago and the P.I also wasn’t able to find anything. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it end.
> 
> My wife stayed home today. She didn’t go work to day. I step VAR in our room and our home office I plan to check both before I go to sleep today.


The friend does matter in that she is toxic if she knew about the affair and did nothing. Then she is certainly not your friend nor a friend of the marriage.

But yes, more important things first.

He is the supervisor at her job. Senior manager I assume. That is one big reason. She was banging him for advancement or it was a sugar baby/sugar daddy arrangement.

Call your wife on that. The only option left is she is attracted to wrinkled old men. I doubt it. When women in their late 20s/early 30s as I assume she is hooks up with a geezer it's always social advantage/money/opening doors/opportunities etc. Sometimes it is stability but she had that with you. 

I assume the OM is married. Use that to your advantage. 

Also, if he does not own the company and it is a larger size institution he is in deep poopoo fooling with a subordinate at the workplace. They frown on that. Your wife can scream she was harassed into sex and sue and other employees can sue she got special treatment for banging the boss. I assume you work there as well? 

Be very guarded with this info going forward. 

Has your wife had any more to say to you?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Talk to your lawyer on recording laws on your state. Getting her to admit the timeline of the affair with OM on an admissible record will be golden as leverage in so many ways.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been able to read all the updated posts. I just wanted to give you guys a quick update about what I found on the VAR.
> 
> My wife didn’t call the OM directly but she did talk to a friend about me finding out. I’m sure who the friend was but I don’t really think that matters. Anyway during the conversation with her friend I was able confirm who the OM and it’s the grandpa. Which is sickening the guy has 30 plus years on her. I still can’t understand why him of all of all people. I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. It would make sense given the phone calls stop showing up about month ago and the P.I also wasn’t able to find anything. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it end.
> 
> My wife stayed home today. She didn’t go work to day. I step VAR in our room and our home office I plan to check both before I go to sleep today.


If you’re looking to reconcile (which I wouldn’t recommend given the levels of “un-remorse” displayed your wife), tell her that you know who it is and that she has exactly ONE chance to tell you EVERYTHING.

She also has to quit the job, as well as go no contact with OM, along with any friends that may have known about the affair.

And NEVER tell her how you know what you know.


----------



## Noble1

Follow the advice that Gus and other seasoned posters are giving you here.

It might seem like you are on top of things and getting information, but there is lots more coming.

Keep strong and keep your info close to yourself.

Good luck.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Why do you have to figure it all out? She knows all. Why would you stay with her if she won't do whatever you ask? Tell her to give you the info, and prove it, in order for you to stay.

She's not giving you a whole lot for you to want to stay? 

She loves your little family? Thank God, imagine how bad it would be if she didn't live you? With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Is she still angry with you for finding out? So she loves you, but makes you the fool? Grandpa and her toxic friend know more about your life than you do. Who else knows? How many other people know more about your life than you do? What is it, they all see you running around, and they all think, "look at poor Steve, his wife's been banging that old fossil, and he's clueless." 

Please ask your wife to leave. 

Call Gramps and tell him you know. Tell him he wins, he gets the booby prize, she's all his now, bag and baggage. "Where do you want me to drop her off? At your house? Maybe you better let Mrs. Gramps know. Time to make up the spare bedroom."


----------



## sa58

Does her friend work at the same company?
As broken in brooklyn said she is toxic. Maybe
she may be willing to give up more information to save 
her own worthless self. Lawyer up and file for 
divorce. From reading your posts she does not seem
to feel any remorse. Just take care of yourself 
and your kid first.


----------



## chillymorn69

Pack her **** and drop it off at grampas house and don't say a word to her .if she asks say i droped it off at your lovers house.


----------



## sa58

If you do confront her with what you
know watch her body language. How she reacts
will tell you a lot more than what she says.


----------



## x598

SS

when are you going to wake up and realize the magnitude of her actions?

you realize now her fiends knew and she talked sh!t about you to justify her actions and get the cheer leaders lined up.

she spat on you and your family in the most wicked way.

she lived her little fantasy with the old geezer, maybe for promotion, or because he had deep pockets and all that went with it.

I would have her stuff piled up with a case of Depends undergarments sitting on top.

tell her to GTFO. Now is her chance to live her fantasy.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Grandpa's the big boss, right? Some women are just hard-wired to kiss up to the top dog. Her attraction towards men is based on their status.

REMINDER: Do NOT get careless with the VARs. Hide them well, retrieve them with the utmost caution and stealth. NEVER reveal the source of your information to her.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been able to read all the updated posts. I just wanted to give you guys a quick update about what I found on the VAR.
> 
> My wife didn’t call the OM directly but she did talk to a friend about me finding out. I’m sure who the friend was but I don’t really think that matters. Anyway during the conversation with her friend I was able confirm who the OM and it’s the grandpa. Which is sickening the guy has 30 plus years on her. I still can’t understand why him of all of all people. I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. It would make sense given the phone calls stop showing up about month ago and the P.I also wasn’t able to find anything. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it end.
> 
> My wife stayed home today. She didn’t go work to day. I step VAR in our room and our home office I plan to check both before I go to sleep today.


First: Her little friend is toxic to the marriage and has to go now. Like yesterday. This can be brought up when you decide to lay down the law.

Second: It's time to play nasty. Expose to POSOM wife, immediately. Tell you have proof and you would like to meet in a public place to let her hear the evidence. The second part of this is that you lawyer up with the meanest shark attorney you can find and have his ass FIRED! Take this SOB out. He will toss your ww on the railroad tracks himself.

Third: Put your ducks in a row and file. Have her served at work. Preferably right before you have his ass fired. This thing you call a wife is not remorseful. She has no intention of relinquishing any control she thinks she has, none.

Ducks in row and then start dropping nukes! Now is the time for action. Half measures will get you **** on. Now move!


----------



## Tobyboy

Do not confront with what/who you suspect. Let’s see who she names. I still believe that there’s more than one OM. Grandpa would be considered “low risk” as far as stds, so no condoms there IMO. Those condoms were for a random hook up, probably a player co-worker to try to make grandpa boss jealous after being dumped.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. I would check with your lawyer on exposure at work. Protect your job. You may be in a good position to sue the company for damages if they come after you. Also, is there a possibility of a alienation of affection suit against the company? They would probably settle out of court to avoid publicity.

2. Expose to OBS as soon as possible.

3. I would put together a gift pack of some sort including depends, Insure Drinks, condoms, etc. as an emergency pack for her to take on business trips. Give it to her as she is served.


----------



## sa58

After talking with your lawyer and however you 
choose to confront and expose maybe consider 
telling everybody she knows. If you choose to sue
the company maybe consider naming her toxic friend
in the lawsuit. You may not want to do this but I
would. What ever you choose to do be sure and tell 
her family. As many here have said she probably has told
them lies about you .


----------



## Chaparral

I say, for now, keep what you know to yourself. Never admit to the VARs. You may need them in the near future. You may get more info from the friend conversations.

You have plenty of cards simply being able to tell when she is lying.

Never reveal sources. Besides, if she refuses to confess she is useless anyway.

As far as gramps goes, is he an owner? How high up is he? Is he married? Grown kids? Plenty of leverage here. Play this wisely.

There may be more than one. Looks like this was a for fun affair and there may be more. Definitely DNA your kid with her knowledge and immediately get STD tested too.


----------



## Windwalker

Chaparral said:


> I say, for now, keep what you know to yourself. Never admit to the VARs. You may need them in the near future. You may get more info from the friend conversations.
> 
> You have plenty of cards simply being able to tell when she is lying.
> 
> Never reveal sources. Besides, if she refuses to confess she is useless anyway.
> 
> As far as gramps goes, is he an owner? How high up is he? Is he married? Grown kids? Plenty of leverage here. Play this wisely.
> 
> There may be more than one. Looks like this was a for fun affair and there may be more. Definitely DNA your kid with her knowledge and immediately get STD tested too.


Damn sage advice here!


----------



## oldtruck

Tell WW you know who the OM is and she must leave that job and file a sexual
harassment suit against him.

Do not reveal his name and never reveal how you found out. You cannot lose 
avenues for getting intel.


----------



## Evinrude58

Get him fired AFTER you have an ironclad divorce agreement, not before


----------



## Marc878

I suspect you will now get the "you made me so sad and unhappy" speech. So you made me cheat?

Typical cheater speak so prep yourself if you haven't.


----------



## sa58

If you are 100% sure it is Grandpa just sit her down and tell her
you suspect who it is. Name two to three people Grandpa included
Then tell her you figured out who it was by the way she reacted to 
Grandpas name. Be sure to look right at her when you say the names.
This may or may not work but sometimes peoples body language will give them 
away. Tell her you can tell when she is lying. This is a bit of a con job but 
if you play it right it might work. Then you can keep your vars and other 
resources secret. This is just an idea. May work may not.


----------



## 3putt

sa58 said:


> If you are 100% sure it is Grandpa just sit her down and tell her
> you suspect who it is. Name two to three people Grandpa included
> Then tell her you figured out who it was by the way she reacted to
> Grandpas name. Be sure to look right at her when you say the names.
> This may or may not work but sometimes peoples body language will give them
> away. Tell her you can tell when she is lying. This is a bit of a con job but
> if you play it right it might work. Then you can keep your vars and other
> resources secret. This is just an idea. May work may not.


Sorry, but don't give any room for wiggling. Just name him- *I know who it is *- and then watch her squirm. Then tell her you're sending the email that I suggested to HR and watch her squirm even more. If she still denies, then launch the email and watch what happens.

Pure hell for them both because we all know that those interoffice emails contain some pretty incriminating evidence. They always do in these cases.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

3putt said:


> Sorry, but don't give any room for wiggling. Just name him- *I know who it is *- and then watch her squirm. Then tell her you're sending the email that I suggested to HR and watch her squirm even more. If she still denies, then launch the email and watch what happens.
> 
> Pure hell for them both because we all know that those interoffice emails contain some pretty incriminating evidence. They always do in these cases.


Excellent idea. Let her twist in the wind>


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
I despise the loathsome cheater. Throughout my
life I have seen the hurt and pain they cause. Sorry this happened 
to you. You know she cheated, who she cheated with, and she continues
to lie and cover it up.Her toxic friend knows, probably a lot of people
at work know. If you cannot get legal proof of who, when and where
then is it really worth it to continue. Tying to figure out everything 
why she did what she did may never happen. I just hope you are 
not torturing yourself with this. Maybe just divorce and 50/50 
custody and walk away? Just tell her you know who it is 
and divorce her.


----------



## Chaparral

Considering who she did this with, I would not tell her anything. This isn’t a normal affair. Almost no chance love or long term was ever intended. I don’t think she is wife material for anyone. More like a player. 

You should simply tell her it’s divorce unless she tells you everyone she has diddled with. Hard to believe this is her first rodeo considering who
she chose to bed.

She did it for thrills. She risked her husband and daughters family and health for so little. She may have even done it for money.

Minimum she needs to freely take a polygraph and get therapy. My money is on she being a serial cheater.


----------



## giddiot

Chaparral said:


> Considering who she did this with, I would not tell her anything. This isn’t a normal affair. Almost no chance love or long term was ever intended. I don’t think she is wife material for anyone. More like a player.
> 
> You should simply tell her it’s divorce unless she tells you everyone she has diddled with. Hard to believe this is her first rodeo considering who
> she chose to bed.
> 
> She did it for thrills. She risked her husband and daughters family and health for so little. She may have even done it for money.
> 
> Minimum she needs to freely take a polygraph and get therapy. My money is on she being a serial cheater.


I agree, serial cheater.


----------



## Evinrude58

Going by who she cheated with, HOW TRIVIALLY she’s treating this and how easily she expects you to rigsweep this——-I’ll definitely agree this doesn’t sound like her first affair.

You don’t want to screw up your life and have to start over. It’s scary. It’s hard.
I really think it’s the best chance at happIness. If I were you, I’d look over my shoulder the rest of my life if I stayed w her.


----------



## stro

I have to agree about it possibly not being her first affair. Her reaction was strange. 2 hours after discovery “what? You’re STILL mad?!” Seems like it’s not a huge thing to her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

OM, in respect to why him in that he so much older than her. There is one more possible angle and that is kink. Kink like daddy dominates, daddie's little girl, BDSM etc. Coupled with a social advantage/ monetary reward. I hate to type that but she would not be the first 'pious' wife with a secret life of kink and reward.

Just a possibility.

WRT to being more than one OM, strong possibility as other posters have pointed out. 

Hope you are holding up today.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,
I hope you are holding out OK. What's your next move?


----------



## Graywolf2

stro said:


> Her reaction was strange. 2 hours after discovery “what? You’re STILL mad?!” Seems like it’s not a huge thing to her.


I agree. Sex doesn’t seem to be a big deal to her.



Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m not perfect but I’m a pretty good husband. I make good money, I try to spend as much time with her as possible and as a family. I make point to show her I still love her every day.
> 
> Does she really mean it when:
> She says she loves me.
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.


*If the above is true* this is usually how it works. The husband is rock solid and dependable. So much so that he can be taken for granted. He becomes family like her dad. A father loves his little girl so much that he would never kick her out of the house no matter what she did.

So she dates a bad boy for excitement. She knows that daddy wouldn’t approve so she sneaks out of her bedroom window.

Many times a wife will vilify their husband to rationalize and excuse their affair. The husband will often say: “I couldn’t do anything right.” Your wife didn’t do that to you because you were too good of a husband for that to work. Instead she used that the sex didn’t matter.

So don't waste your time thinking: "How could she do this to me when I was a good husband and father." In a way that was part of the problem. You were so dependable you were like the utility company. 

She may very well love you but it’s in the family file. I bet she will tell you that she never intended to leave you and it’s probably the truth. As a group the sex act isn’t as big of a deal to women as the relationship. Men tend to be the opposite. So in her mind she was faithful to you in the way that matters most. The sex meant nothing so what's the problem?

She will say that she ended the affair and chose you. That you should be happy with that. If you mope around the house all depressed she will feel guilty about hurting you but not for the sex. She will regret that you finding out hurt her "dad" who she wants to spend the rest of her life with. It was just a guilty pleasure that she did her best to hide from you. If you had never found out things would have been great for everyone. You even had improved sex for a bit.

The reason that you had improved sex in December is that she was turned on by being a naughty girl instead of being a wife and mother. _(That might be one of the underlying motivations for the affair.) _ Then maybe she calmed down and wanted to keep her family. Or the OM dumped her.



Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it ended.


The above is right on the money.

You’re such a nice guy and family man that she’s convinced that you will never divorce her. Even if you 100% want to R you must put D on the table. She will never get what she did on a gut level unless she realizes that she risked everything. Then and only then will it sink in and she’ll panic.

Men that go straight to MC and R make a major mistake. Their reaction sends a signal that the affair wasn’t that bad after all and the marriage was never put at risk. If that's true then why shouldn't the wife have another affair?


----------



## Graywolf2

There is a biological reason that men care more about sexual fidelity. A woman knows that all of her children are biologically hers. A man depends of the faithfulness of his wife. 
To make the point that sex does mean something I would tell your wife that you’re going to DNA test your daughter. What's your wife going to say: "How dare you suggest that I would have sex with another man?" The best she can say is that she "faithfully" used condoms.

It doesn’t matter if your daughter has your grandmother’s eyes, you're making a point. Plus it’s a good idea to do it now when your daughter is two and will have no idea what you’re doing. Then you will be 100% sure forever.

You can buy a kit at about any drug store, WalMart or Amazon. You just swab the inside of your cheek and the kids. Then you send the kit to a lab.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Does she real mean it when
> 
> she says she loves me.
> 
> She says can’t picture her life without me.
> 
> She says me, and our daughter are the most important thing to her.


Eh... maybe. But you have to think about things in context.

Most people — and rightly so — think of marriage, love, and monogamy in very simple terms. “It’s him or me”, “If you loved me you wouldn’t do/have done this”, etc.

Cheaters don’t, though.

She _may_ love you.

She _might not_ be able to see her life without you.

But, as you well know, that doesn’t mean she can’t, won’t, or doesn’t plan on cheating. You just weren’t supposed to find out.

You were supposed to be the dumb chump paying the lion’s share of the bills and watching the kid while she’s out ****ing around.

In short, while it’s true that she might love you (at least to the extent that she’s capable of “loving” a husband), that doesn’t mean that she has — or ever even _had_ — any intent to remain faithful to you.

And that shouldn’t be anywhere NEAR enough for you, especially given the resounding lack of remorse she’s thus far shown.

As for your family?

If that were as important to her as she claimed it to be, she’d have never jeopardized it by ****ing another man.

So _that_ was — and still is — a lie.

Also, FWIW, you can add my vote to the “she’s a serial cheater” camp.


----------



## sandcastle

All of us can't picture our lives with what we currently have in it and then poof! Not In it!

Just poof. Gone. Vapor .

Like our parents- they are supposed to die before us. 
Tough for a 10 year old but not so much for a 60 year old.

Our children- they are supposed to die after us. Nothing will EVER top that . Ever.


So your wife and her imagination about not imaging while she is getting some on the side?
Our spouses- they are supposed to remain our wingman until death do us part.

Maybe she should stop imagining and not have you.
She can have that other schlub.

Imagine that. And she can put that picture in a frame.


----------



## ABHale

oldtruck said:


> Tell WW you know who the OM is and she must leave that job and file a sexual
> harassment suit against him.
> 
> Do not reveal his name and never reveal how you found out. You cannot lose
> avenues for getting intel.


Really......

She willingly had sex with him. It’s not sexual harassment. She is more at fault then the other man. Who knows maybe she pursued him. 

This is the WW’s doings, she is responsible. Now she wants to pretend it never happened and she is pissed that SS won’t let it just drop.


----------



## sidney2718

You've had some good advice, particularly from Greywolf and Gus. But it seems to me that the first thing you have to do is to decide what YOU want.

Don't go down the revenge road without a good reason. It could make a divorce far more difficult and a reconciliation impossible. I see no gain in it. Of course if you decide on divorce and are feeling vengeful, then AFTER the divorce you can go for revenge. But as I said I don't know what it gets you.

So decide what goal you want to attain. If it is eventual reconciliation you have to be a bit careful. Your WW is a human being too, just like you. And even though the affair is on her, overcoming it can be very hard. 

If your goal is divorce, you need a lawyer. And you need to move toward a divorce that is fair and equitable, not one that punishes her because she can aim at punishing back. This results in a big expensive fight with no gain over a relatively civilized parting of the ways.

You can even frame your offer of divorce as a recognition that your lives have diverged and that you might as well part "friends" as not. 

Again, you can't "get even". There is no "even" here. Decide what YOU want and go for it.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

ABHale said:


> Really......
> 
> She willingly had sex with him. It’s not sexual harassment. She is more at fault then the other man. Who knows maybe she pursued him.
> 
> This is the WW’s doings, she is responsible. Now she wants to pretend it never happened and she is pissed that SS won’t let it just drop.


Doesn’t matter if consensual or not. Grandpa 
Should not have dipped pen in company ink.
It A good lawyer could take the company to the cleaners.


----------



## oldtruck

ABHale said:


> Really......
> 
> She willingly had sex with him. It’s not sexual harassment. She is more at fault then the other man. Who knows maybe she pursued him.
> 
> This is the WW’s doings, she is responsible. Now she wants to pretend it never happened and she is pissed that SS won’t let it just drop.


All is fair in love and war. The BH must use every tool that falls into his lap.
Yes it is a he said she said case. This is the opportunity though for the BH to
make the OM face the consequences. Pay back is not suppose to be fun.


----------



## seadoug105

ABHale said:


> Really......
> 
> She willingly had sex with him. It’s not sexual harassment. She is more at fault then the other man. Who knows maybe she pursued him.
> 
> This is the WW’s doings, she is responsible. Now she wants to pretend it never happened and she is pissed that SS won’t let it just drop.



It is if possible advancement were offered or implied. It also is if it were implied that she was not meeting her performance expectations and "needed to step up her game" because he likes he and wants to see her succeed be he needs to see "better performance out of her"....


You get what I mean! Just because it was voluntary does mean it didn't start via sexual harassment.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house. 

When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law. 

As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.

Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Sorry if any grammar or spelling errors. I'm dyslexic and have a tendency to miss place and spell words. And fact I'm not actively checking my writing doesn't help.


----------



## Nucking Futs

It sure would be nice to know if OM owns the company or not. How about it Scuba, can you help me out here?


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.
> 
> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law.
> 
> As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.
> 
> Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.



You can get the friends phone number by looking at the cell records from the date and time the var picked up the conversation. That'll lead you to who she is.


----------



## Marc878

It's hell right now but compared to most you're in a much better position. You know the truth.

Known:
What you have at least for now is a cheating, lying, deceitful and unremorseful wife who has zero transparency and is conspiring with an enabling friend against you. 

Her other mans identity.

Enabling friend.


Unknown:
How long was her affair?

Was it an EA as well as a PA?

Who is this woman you married?

What's she capable off?


You are in a bad spot but you have insight that many don't and you're going to find out more if you play this right. Watch your steps going forward. It's in your best interest at this time to go 180 and keep digging.

No trust, no transparency, no honesty, no respect = no chance at a successful R. 

Don't end up staying in a marriage on your wife's terms. It'll be hell.

You are young and can recover. You deserve more than that.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. *You* do not have to prove anything. Your wife can sue him for sexual harassment. They may have communicated over work e-mail and text. If she continues to protect him, she values him and her job over you. If *you* value her job over your marriage, then why all the fuss? It sucks, but not enough to get all butt hurt over. 

2. *You* have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. She has to really believe that you are willing to lose it. Filing for divorce and being served tends to get their attention. She will either get her head out of her hindquarters or show you its not worth it to her. 

3. What does the Bossman (aka Anal Cavity) having been married for over 20 years have to do with anything? I am a sexy grandpa & have been married for over 45 years. I am kind of an Anal Cavity myself, (I once fired an assistant coach in the middle of a game & made him ride home on one of the fan buses). If I stray, my wife will nail my cojones to the wall with a railroad spike. *Believe it.*

4. *Women are drawn to strength, courage, & decisiveness.* Be strong, be courageous, be decisive. 180 the heck out of her. Show her you are not going to put up with her Poo-poo. This doesn't mean yelling and throwing stuff. It means showing her you mean what you say. She has already admitted to being an adulteress. You don't need anymore proof.

5. Read Hantei's story. Its long but inspiring. He show's you how its done. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/320049-i-dont-know-what-would-right-title.html


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Sorry if any grammar or spelling errors. I'm dyslexic and have a tendency to miss place and spell words. And fact I'm not actively checking my writing doesn't help.


You're doing fine don't worry about minor details you have more important things to think about.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.
> 
> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law.
> 
> As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.
> 
> Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


So what’s your plan?


----------



## manwithnoname

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.
> 
> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law.
> 
> As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.
> 
> Many might not agree but I do think this is *her first affair* and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


She acted different enough for you to get the "gut feeling" so it may be true, and it may not be true. 

It shouldn't affect your decision regarding your future. Once is enough.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I agree with ScubaSteve that this is likely her first affair, because she was bad enough at it that it got his gut talking to him where he had never experienced that before. Not that it matters. She doesnt get a get out of jail free card just because its the first. 

And Steve you absolutely CAN kick her out! My friend's husband kicked her cheating ass out of their house when he found out. The cheater SHOULD leave, 100%, since THEY are the ones destroying the family.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Nucking Futs said:


> It sure would be nice to know if OM owns the company or not. How about it Scuba, can you help me out here?


No he doesn't, the owner of the company retired two years ago. The grandpa OM is friends with current CEO.


----------



## Lostinthought61

have you taken her phone to see if anything can be discovered using software?...also if she had a gmail account everything is backup by google if you have her user name and password.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba_Steve said:


> Sorry if any grammar or spelling errors. I'm dyslexic and have a tendency to miss place and spell words. And fact I'm not actively checking my writing doesn't help.


Do not worry about that. We are here to help you. FTR, I am too.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> So what’s your plan?


First and foremost is figure out what I to reconcile or divorce


----------



## Marc878

What's her story today? She saying anything else?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Lostinthought61 said:


> have you taken her phone to see if anything can be discovered using software?...also if she had a gmail account everything is backup by google if you have her user name and password.


Not yet but I plan too. I'm going to talk to my wife that I need her phone or it might be a deal breaker. First i want to hear what's on the VAR that I left in our room.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> First and foremost is figure out what I to reconcile or divorce


You can't figure that out until your wife comes clean and gives you ALL the details. So long as she is still lying there is nothing to reconcile. She is still lying and covering up - those are not good foundations for a reconciliation.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Not yet but I plan too. I'm going to talk to my wife that I need her phone or it might be a deal breaker. First i want to hear what's on the VAR that I left in our room.


Your PI should be able to recover any deleted text messages. If you get access to her phone but you'll need her password, etc which will mean her cooperation.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> What's her story today? She saying anything else?


I haven't been home much of the day. I've only been home for about 2 hours. So far she is acting different. Last night she was down right cold. Today she more like the person I think she is. She hasn’t said anything about the affair but she does look like she’s been crying.


----------



## Marc878

Truthseeker1 said:


> You can't figure that out until your wife comes clean and gives you ALL the details. So long as she is still lying there is nothing to reconcile. She is still lying and covering up - those are not good foundations for a reconciliation.


Correct, offering R now means you surrender and accept it on her terms. Doormat status.

That sets the tone for the rest of your marriage. I can do as I please and Steve will back Down and take it.

Your path right now should be D unless she (with her actions tell you different). Talk means nothing it's worthless.

Better be aware


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven't been home much of the day. I've only been home for about 2 hours. So far she is acting different. Last night she was down right cold. Today she more like the person I think she is. She hasn’t said anything about the affair but she does look like she’s been crying.


Your wife is hoping for a rug sweep. A way out with no consequences. I can almost guarantee you the OM knows every thing that has gone on over the last couple of days.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Truthseeker1 said:


> You can't figure that out until your wife comes clean and gives you ALL the details. So long as she is still lying there is nothing to reconcile. She is still lying and covering up - those are not good foundations for a reconciliation.


You know what they say, trust but verify.

I want to know as much of the truth as possible before i ask any more questions. I already made this mistake once I don't plan on repeating it again.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.
> 
> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law.
> 
> As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.
> 
> Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


Steve, 

First of all, you can ask her to leave. You need time away without her invading your space. She needs to realize the damage she has done. Secondly, you should consider what your objective is, R or D. Keep in mind, you do not have to decide anything yet. Take your time and do not allow her to pressure you. Think it through and do what you feel is best for you.

So grandpa is an *******. We already knew that from your post. Any man who would **** a married woman is an ******* in my opinion. **** him and feed him fish heads. A fox digs his own hole. He needs to reap what he has sown. The key word is consequences. He and your wife need to experience them. I will strongly encourage you to call grandma. Let her her the VAR. You owe this POS nothing. As I said **** him. **** the courtroom, you need to make him pay. I have your back, been there done that, and he needs to have his ass kicked up between his shoulder blades so to speak. I am worried you are fearful of taking strong action...FEAR NOT! Make the worm squirm by calling grandma. Consider consulting a lawyer as to HR. You could hit the company and possibly him hard.

I would ask you to consider prepare a written synopsis of your wife’s convo with toxic friend in a manner she cannot deduce the source. Hand it to her where she cannot refute. Tell her a PI has been following her for some time. Tell her if she does not come clean you are emailing photos to grandma and HR. On lie, game over. It is a bluff, but you need to mess with her mind. Keep her off balance. Make her think you know more than you know.

Right now if you are like I was,your emotions are all over the place. Read up on the 180 and do your damednest to implement.
Keep a light hand on the booze. Get to the gym and pump some iron.

Have her served, preferably at work, so the blow to her is the hardest. Again, the psychological impact is critical. Let her know you are in command.

Sgt LH Orders(as I have said to others visualize R Lee Ermy, only I am better looking)

Do not engage her at this moment. 180. Understand.....YES Sgt LH!>

Never reveal your sources...YES SGT LH!>

Right now she is your enemy.....YEs SGT LH!>

Repeat as needed..” I am a good man. I deserve better. I did not deserve this” it is all her fault.....YES SGT LH!>

Grandpa is going down! Going down ASAP. YES SGT LH!>

Grandma is going to know. YES SGT LH!

You have been knocked down, but you have only started to fight. You will dust yourself off, get your bearings, and make grandpas life ****ing miserable. You will via exposure make him stand out like a common turd in a punch bowl.>

Understand?


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> You know what they say, trust but verify.
> 
> I want to know as much of the truth as possible before i ask any more questions. I already made this mistake once I don't plan on repeating it again.


Continue to gather evidence. But if she doesn't come clean on her own then you really need to think hard about what kind of marriage you have with her right now. Good luck!!


----------



## 3putt

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your wife is hoping for a rug sweep. A way out with no consequences. I can almost guarantee you the OM knows every thing that has gone on over the last couple of days.


And not only that, but painting a picture to his wife about this 'crazy, jealous husband' of a coworker that thinks he's having with his wife. Serious damage control operating at the moment, and this indecisiveness isn't helping matters at all.


----------



## Truthseeker1

3putt said:


> And not only that, but painting a picture to his wife about this 'crazy, jealous husband' of a coworker that thinks he's having with his wife. Serious damage control operating at the moment, and this indecisiveness isn't helping matters at all.


No doubt if he does know he is covering his tracks in some way. Hard evidence is needed so the OM cant deny it. Right now SS's wife is not showing too much promise in the cooperation department.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven't been home much of the day. I've only been home for about 2 hours. So far she is acting different. Last night she was down right cold. Today she more like the person I think she is. *She hasn’t said anything about the affair but she does look like she’s been crying.*


So far she's not showing any remorse, and without remorse she's simply not a candidate for reconciliation. The crying doesn't mean anything, a lot of women cry when they're angry. She could also be crying because she got caught and now has to put up with your attitude. Until she completely surrenders to you you should proceed expeditiously to divorce.

I asked if OM owned the company because there's three likely paths for the company to take if you notify them:
Do nothing and see what you do
Fire OM
Offer you a cash payout to sign an NDA and go away. This has happened at least once on this board but we got no details due to the NDA. All we know is it was a substantial amount of cash.

The cash for NDA would be most likely if OM was the owner, but you might have a chance at it. Make sure if you go this route you file for divorce first, you don't want to have to split this settlement with an unremorseful WW.

So as I see it right now you need to file for divorce ASAP. Getting served will move her off her present position, either back towards you and the marriage or farther away. Either outcome is good, you either get the remorseful wife you can reconcile with or you find out that reconciliation is not in the cards. Don't tell her its coming, have her served at work.


----------



## 3putt

Truthseeker1 said:


> No doubt if he does know he is covering his tracks in some way. Hard evidence is needed so the OM cant deny it. Right now SS's wife is not showing too much promise in the cooperation department.


Well, since he jumped the gun like we told him not to he only has one option left to get that info. I've already told him what to do, but he won't do it. He's operating out of a position of fear of loss and not taking control of the situation. Not gonna end well at this rate.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Nucking Futs said:


> So far she's not showing any remorse, and without remorse she's simply not a candidate for reconciliation. The crying doesn't mean anything, a lot of women cry when they're angry. She could also be crying because she got caught and now has to put up with your attitude.


Agreed tears are meaningless - only actions count.


----------



## Truthseeker1

3putt said:


> Well, since he jumped the gun like we told him not to he only has one option left to get that info. I've already told him what to do, but he won't do it. He's operating out of a position of fear of loss and not taking control of the situation. Not gonna end well at this rate.


Many BSs stumble out of the gate - the shock effects different people in different ways. What is important is finishing strong.


----------



## 3putt

Truthseeker1 said:


> Many BSs stumble out of the gate - the shock effects different people in different ways. What is important is finishing strong.


I guess we'll see. I'd feel much better about this if he did just one thing right at the right time.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> First and foremost is figure out what I to reconcile or divorce


To put it bluntly, you need to pull your head out of your ass — until she displays remorse and agrees to 100% transparency, _truthfully_ answers all of your questions, AND agrees to no contact with OM AND toxic friends going forward (this will mean a new job for her), she’s simply not a good candidate for reconciliation.

And you can’t reconcile your marriage on your own.

It’s time for you to have the conversation that I outlined a few posts back.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You ,Scuba Steve, are strong. Stronger than you think. You are solid. Keep it up.


----------



## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> To put it bluntly, you need to pull your head out of your ass — until she displays remorse and agrees to 100% transparency, _truthfully_ answers all of your questions, AND agrees to no contact with OM AND toxic friends going forward (this will mean a new job for her), she’s simply not a good candidate for reconciliation.
> 
> And you can’t reconcile your marriage on your own.
> 
> It’s time for you to have the conversation that I outlined a few posts back.












Listen to the advice given by the veterans here - the have much wisdom even if it hard to hear sometimes. Good luck and stay strong.


----------



## Malaise

3Xnocharm said:


> I agree with ScubaSteve that this is likely her first affair, *because she was bad enough at it that it got his gut talking to him where he had never experienced that before. *Not that it matters. She doesnt get a get out of jail free card just because its the first.
> 
> And Steve you absolutely CAN kick her out! My friend's husband kicked her cheating ass out of their house when he found out. The cheater SHOULD leave, 100%, since THEY are the ones destroying the family.


Or, she's a serial cheat who got complacent and sloppy after doing it a few times without OP catching on.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Malaise said:


> Or, she's a serial cheat who got complacent and sloppy after doing it a few times without OP catching on.


Whether it is her first affair or not there are many layers to pull back before the full truth is known.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> You know what they say, trust but verify.
> 
> I want to know as much of the truth as possible before i ask any more questions. I already made this mistake once I don't plan on repeating it again.


Goodb idea. 

You can't kick her out but......

You can *ask* her to go back to her mothers. It sets a tone (I'm not living in a marriage like this).


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now *I won’t be doing anything because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law. *


You’re correct that you can’t officially know who the OM is. Find out another way if you can, but if you can't you still have some power.

When you’re ready tell your wife that she’s protecting the OM. By not telling you who he is she proves that she cares more about him than she does about you and your marriage.
She will say that she’s doesn’t care about the OM. She doesn’t want to hurt his family or she’s keeping you from doing something stupid. She’s protecting you from the actions you might take.

Stick to your guns. Tell her that if she doesn’t spill the beans you will divorce her. That will give you a lot of leverage. The OM will not want this to become public. He will pressure her to keep her mouth shut and have an uncontested divorce. The OM might even pay her off. You might be paying her less alimony because the OM made up the difference.

So either she tells you who the OM is and then you officially know or she doesn't tell and you get good divorce terms.


----------



## ButtPunch

3putt said:


> Well, since he jumped the gun like we told him not to he only has one option left to get that info. I've already told him what to do, but he won't do it. He's operating out of a position of fear of loss and not taking control of the situation. Not gonna end well at this rate.


I'm sensing the same thing from the OP.


----------



## ABHale

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Doesn’t matter if consensual or not. Grandpa
> Should not have dipped pen in company ink.
> It A good lawyer could take the company to the cleaners.


I agree with this completely if it’s SS cleaning out the company not his WW.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

What more truth do you really need? 

You know it was a PA, condoms found with one missing. 

Condom may have even been used in your very bedroom. 

Phone calls from grandpa stop immediately, why, someone else knows.

How long was the affair, check phone records as to when the calls began increasing.

Have to deal with grandpa boss carefully, I think not, any retribution taken against you is a slam dunk case of retaliation. Company would be very ignorant to take action against your employment after a high level boss was having an affair with your wife. You have much more power then you think.

Reconciliation, nope, neither you and certainly not your wife are even ready to say this word let alone actually attempt it.

Your wife is mad? Have you asked why? This would be a new level of entitlement if I’ve ever seen one. Mad? Really?

What is it within you that has you fearing anything? Your wife is mad at you. The grandpa boss is ridiculing you to your own wife, I guarantee that. Scuba you need to get angry.

Right now you have one choice, divorce, because by the end of the year your wife will still be mad and not one ounce remorseful. But, you can change some things. You need to find this toxic friend, then have a little chat with this friend. Then tell your wife this friend is no longer to be contacted. Non compliance is divorce. Second, you call OM’s wife, NOW, and she will tell you she already knows. She has not contacted you because then her grandpa boss of a husband has no income. Yep, that’s why the phone calls stopped, that’s why the affair ended, and guess what, when OM’s wife gets her ducks in a row and realizes she gets better money divorced, your wife is grandpas again. That’s why she won’t tell you, that’s why she acts mad, because she has a plan, and you aren’t included in it. 

Scuba, I know this may sound harsh, I don’t mean for it to but I’ve gone through the workplace affair ****. Has your wife even offered to quit? Probably not, which means she will never tell you who it is. File for divorce, list adultery and OM. Have your lawyer highlight this, have a copy delivered to OM as well to the why. Email the CEO, let him know that grandpa boss has been having sexual relations with people he manages. Don’t say who, but do say it’s going to get very interesting at work in the near future. A person I know did this, of course he’s a little wild but it worked like a charm. CEO will protect one thing, the company that makes him money, friends began to fall after the email was sent. CEO also began to look at the people who worked for him, a few more then just OM were let go. 

Get mad, you are at war, respond like it.


----------



## Marc878

Upfront every BS is in shock and they always just want them back like it was before. The problem is down the road you wake up. It's never going to be back the same way again. Affairs change the whole dynamics of a marriage. You can't see that yet but you will.

If you haven't get to a good attorney and see where you stand.

Knowledge is power so get all you can. 

Don't be living with regret 5, 10, 15 or twenty years from now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.
> 
> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room. *VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law*.
> 
> As for her friend I agree she’s toxic. I don’t who she is yet. I know it’s not one of her good friends because I know all of them. She could be a new Work friend I haven’t meet yet. Who ever she is, she toxic. She been helping and coaching my wife on what to say and act. My wife clearly doesn’t realize her friends advice is making things 10x worse.
> 
> Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


About that one party consent. True for listening on a wire. Not true anywhere/anything else. Did you goggle that or actually ask an attorney?


----------



## eric1

You need the phone this very instant. It’s about to ‘ooops! It fell into the toilet by mistake’.


----------



## Windwalker

Marc878 said:


> Goodb idea.
> 
> You can't kick her out but......
> 
> You can *ask* her to go back to her mothers. It sets a tone (I'm not living in a marriage like this).


Agreed.. Setting the tone for the remainder of this **** sandwich is important, especially after the confronting her to soon. 

Steve, some of the best resources around reside right here.

Listen to the vets here, they know their stuff!


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> Kicking my wife out probably isn’t going to happen because I can’t force her to leave. As much as it sucks this technically still her house.


You can ask her to leave. If she doesn't, you can call her mom and clue her in, and ask her mom to influence her to leave. For you to just say, "I can't kick her out" and dismiss that recommendation for that reason is disingenuous. If you disagree with the recommendation or if you are not ready to go there yet for some other reason - fear of losing your previous life, the kids, etc. - better I think to say that. Your main behavior throughout her affair was to do ... NOTHING. It is not effective. Rarely is.



Scuba_Steve said:


> When comes to grandpa I have to be careful how I deal with him. He is married for at least 20 plus years and makes good money, but he’s an ******* no one like him. Besides my wife apparently. As of now I won’t be doing anything woke at because *I can’t prove anything, at least not in a court room.* VAR won’t cut it, in NY has one party consent law.


Your wife confessed to YOU. The level of the number and length of calls and messages between your wife's phone and Gramps personal cell supports that confession. Her confession and the phone logs are admissible in court. But it's not really about that, is it? It's about your natural inclination. You naturally avoid conflict. As I posted earlier, in the leadup to the obvious red flags, her sleeping with the phone under her pillow, her going to buy groceries and returning 8 hours later, and all the other signs, you never disputed her explanation or, most times, you never even questioned her at all. I'm sorry this has happened to you. You didn't deserve it. Strongly consider standing up for yourself and confronting those who have purposely acted against you.



Scuba_Steve said:


> Many might not agree but I do think this is her first affair and only time she has cheated. I can’t prove this but for most of our marriage she been a great wife it’s only recently she started to change up.


I agree and said so in a previous post. Your wife's behavior has been so obvious, only a blindly trusting husband would miss it, as did most of us here. If she cheats again, she will be better at it, but so will you be able to find it. Because your days of blindly trusting are gone forever. I liken it to when you first found out that Santa Claus doesn't really exist.

Strength is important in dealing with it if you want to reconcile. At any weakness, she will take advantage of you. She has been doing that throughout the affair. She has continued doing that since you confronted her. She will continue to do that. She is playing to win. If you just take it, she will not change by herself, she will not ever say to herself, on her thoughts alone, "what I did was really wrong, so I will give and do whatever Steve needs to make him feel better." If you want to test it, just do nothing and say she is right, you should be over it by now. See if she ever brings it up again.

Your wife's apparent "crying" just means she is upset because HER LIFE (not yours) will be altered. Steve, it is impossible to change and pivot immediately her mental outlook, so anything you think you see as far as her "feeling sorry" is NOT for you, but for her. She already grieved the affair. She will now grieve her new status. But she will not start to grieve for YOU for some time. She will be in preservation mode until the dust settles. If you are waiting for a sign to reconcile or divorce, it will not come any time soon. Her ability to be "remorseful" (defined as sorry to hurt you and sorry for her actions because it was wrong) as opposed to "regretful" (defined as sorry that she has been caught and sorry for herself and her consequences, but not really sorry for the affair itself) will not come for at least 3-6 months from now. Just look at her reactions of being caught - anger at you.

The cloak-and-dagger stuff, the VAR, all that stuff - it could have a modicum of usefulness in divorce but not much in reconciling. But if she starts cheating again, you will see it easily enough. Reconciling starts about six months after you blow up and end the affair and related secrecy on her side. So if she never comes clean, you never get a real reconciliation. Maybe you get a fake one. But the workplace for you and her is not in the same future as reconciliation. Start to let that sink in. The sooner you can realize the life-altering changes, the sooner you can move forward.

I also liken an affair to cancer. You can feel pretty good while you still have cancer growing inside you. And when you find out, there might be a tendency to deny it, or avoid it, because the cure is so painful. Physically, the cure, in the near term, is more painful than the disease itself. This is true in an affair. To cure the marriage after an affair will be much more painful than to just ignore it - but only in the near term. Long term, it is death.

You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it.

If you want to divorce, it's easy. Just get an attorney and follow his/her advice. But unless your wife forces it, you will not do that for at least a few months and continued foot-dragging from your wife. So in the meantime, strength and standing up is key.


----------



## Gabriel

eric1 said:


> You need the phone this very instant. It’s about to ‘ooops! It fell into the toilet by mistake’.


All the texts and stuff will be long deleted by now. More likely, she gives him her clean phone as false proof of good behavior.

Been there, done that.


----------



## Nucking Futs

OutofRetirement said:


> You can ask her to leave. If she doesn't, you can call her mom and clue her in, and ask her mom to influence her to leave. For you to just say, "I can't kick her out" and dismiss that recommendation for that reason is disingenuous. If you disagree with the recommendation or if you are not ready to go there yet for some other reason - fear of losing your previous life, the kids, etc. - better I think to say that. Your main behavior throughout her affair was to do ... NOTHING. It is not effective. Rarely is.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife confessed to YOU. The level of the number and length of calls and messages between your wife's phone and Gramps personal cell supports that confession. Her confession and the phone logs are admissible in court. But it's not really about that, is it? It's about your natural inclination. You naturally avoid conflict. As I posted earlier, in the leadup to the obvious red flags, her sleeping with the phone under her pillow, her going to buy groceries and returning 8 hours later, and all the other signs, you never disputed her explanation or, most times, you never even questioned her at all. I'm sorry this has happened to you. You didn't deserve it. Strongly consider standing up for yourself and confronting those who have purposely acted against you.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree and said so in a previous post. Your wife's behavior has been so obvious, only a blindly trusting husband would miss it, as did most of us here. If she cheats again, she will be better at it, but so will you be able to find it. Because your days of blindly trusting are gone forever. I liken it to when you first found out that Santa Claus doesn't really exist.
> 
> Strength is important in dealing with it if you want to reconcile. At any weakness, she will take advantage of you. She has been doing that throughout the affair. She has continued doing that since you confronted her. She will continue to do that. She is playing to win. If you just take it, she will not change by herself, she will not ever say to herself, on her thoughts alone, "what I did was really wrong, so I will give and do whatever Steve needs to make him feel better." If you want to test it, just do nothing and say she is right, you should be over it by now. See if she ever brings it up again.
> 
> Your wife's apparent "crying" just means she is upset because HER LIFE (not yours) will be altered. Steve, it is impossible to change and pivot immediately her mental outlook, so anything you think you see as far as her "feeling sorry" is NOT for you, but for her. She already grieved the affair. She will now grieve her new status. But she will not start to grieve for YOU for some time. She will be in preservation mode until the dust settles. If you are waiting for a sign to reconcile or divorce, it will not come any time soon. Her ability to be "remorseful" (defined as sorry to hurt you and sorry for her actions because it was wrong) as opposed to "regretful" (defined as sorry that she has been caught and sorry for herself and her consequences, but not really sorry for the affair itself) *will not come for at least 3-6 months from now.* Just look at her reactions of being caught - anger at you.
> 
> The cloak-and-dagger stuff, the VAR, all that stuff - it could have a modicum of usefulness in divorce but not much in reconciling. But if she starts cheating again, you will see it easily enough. Reconciling starts about six months after you blow up and end the affair and related secrecy on her side. So if she never comes clean, you never get a real reconciliation. Maybe you get a fake one. But the workplace for you and her is not in the same future as reconciliation. Start to let that sink in. The sooner you can realize the life-altering changes, the sooner you can move forward.
> 
> I also liken an affair to cancer. You can feel pretty good while you still have cancer growing inside you. And when you find out, there might be a tendency to deny it, or avoid it, because the cure is so painful. Physically, the cure, in the near term, is more painful than the disease itself. This is true in an affair. To cure the marriage after an affair will be much more painful than to just ignore it - but only in the near term. Long term, it is death.
> 
> You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it.
> 
> If you want to divorce, it's easy. Just get an attorney and follow his/her advice. But unless your wife forces it, you will not do that for at least a few months and continued foot-dragging from your wife. So in the meantime, strength and standing up is key.


This is not necessarily true. It _can_ take months for remorse to show up, but remorse can also show up within minutes of committing the act, before the BS even knows anything happened. The less callous or hardened a cheater or the more empathetic the less time is needed to develop remorse. See Tears thread for example.

The same with the poor advice I see frequently given to do nothing for 6 months so you can make an intellectual decision rather than an emotional decision. Don't do nothing, immediately file for divorce and expose. In most states it takes at least 6 months to get divorced and you can stop it at any time, but doing nothing does nothing to help. Like practically everyone is telling Scuba, filing for divorce ASAP knocks the legs out from under the wayward and may let you see the true situation in the marriage rather than what the wayward is trying to portray. I have no respect for people who make decisions based on emotions, but waywards have no respect for passive do-nothing betrayeds.


----------



## eric1

Gabriel said:


> All the texts and stuff will be long deleted by now. More likely, she gives him her clean phone as false proof of good behavior.
> 
> Been there, done that.


The nice thing is that as long as you have the phone in your hand and you explain what you are about to do (full forensic recovery) then you can tell what's on the phone by the look in her eyes the instant that you tell her


----------



## Slow Hand

eric1 said:


> The nice thing is that as long as you have the phone in your hand and you explain what you are about to do (full forensic recovery) then you can tell what's on the phone by the look in her eyes the instant that you tell her


My ex “accidentally” washed her phone in the washing machine 😂


----------



## Evinrude58

This woman has zero remorse. OP is unwilling to lay the hammer down. He always has been.
The stable, secure, loyal, husband is he.
It’s a great set of qualities when one has the same in a wife.

OP wants what all betrayed spouses want, to go back to being a loving family, with no worries about whether our spouses love us.

He will find out tha once this happens, his old life is history and there’s nothing that will change that. I’m a firm believer in that once a wife gives her emotions to another man, the love she had for her husband will never return. That’s why she’s angry. She is stuck with only her husband.

I really would divorce her and build a new life with a better wife.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Nucking Futs said:


> This is not necessarily true. It _can_ take months for remorse to show up, but remorse can also show up within minutes of committing the act, before the BS even knows anything happened. The less callous or hardened a cheater or the more empathetic the less time is needed to develop remorse. *See Tears thread for example.*
> 
> *The same with the poor advice *


I disagree with you.

Are you implying my advice is poor?

The Tears thread? Is that the one from 2012? Almost six years ago? In over five years, you can come up with one example to back you up?


----------



## skerzoid

Okay, enough with thread jack. I thought we were here to offer support and advice. 

AAnnyywwaayy:

1. S_S, you need to have her served. Judge her actions after that. You need to hit this thing hard. Its the only thing that works. You can call off the divorce when she shapes up. 

2. Are you practicing the 180? 

3. Repeat, "You have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it."

4. You are dealing with hard people. Your wife and her Lover do not fear you, & that means they do not respect you. Someone can love you and still betray you because they doubt your strength. Peter denied Christ three times because he thought he was just a man in his heart. Once he found out who Jesus really was, he was willing to die for him. 

5. If you to try to play soft, you show them they were correct in their judgement of you. You need to show them who they are dealing with. Nuke 'em.

6. You need a shark for a lawyer and you need those papers drawn up yesterday.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> You know what they say, trust but verify.
> 
> I want to know as much of the truth as possible before i ask any more questions. I already made this mistake once I don't plan on repeating it again.


Don't ask any question you do not have proof of the answer already.


----------



## Nucking Futs

OutofRetirement said:


> I disagree with you.
> 
> *Are you implying my advice is poor?*
> 
> The Tears thread? Is that the one from 2012? Almost six years ago? In over five years, you can come up with one example to back you up?


I don't see where you told him to do nothing for 6 months, so no, I wasn't implying your advice is poor. If you are telling him to do nothing for 6 months then it's no implication, that advice is poor.

You seem to be looking for offense. Understand that I don't care about you enough to bother insulting you. You're welcome to be offended or not as you like.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

You are correct in that you most likely can’t truly evict someone without going through a legal process. However, that doesn’t mean you have to say anything, or what you do say is nothing but knives. When she says she loves her little family again or says she loves you or the kids, say she loves you all so much she ****s a wrinkled **** old enough to be her fathers. Controlled anger that is truth and cuts to the bone. Do not say this in front of the kids, but none of your talks should be anyway. You can get her to leave easily, you only used one condom? Your body wasn’t good enough to get him erect? He can’t afford pills to help him? You weren’t good enough to get him erect? Scuba you get mad, tell her your going to speak to his wife, the CEO, your friends and family, that you were banging a dinosaur ****. 

Getting someone to leave can be very easy, you just need to be willing to speak the truth to her. Once you tell her you know who it is, her approach to you will be much different, because she thought you could never figure it out. I suggest you contact dinosaurs wife and the CEO, perhaps have your lawyer contact each of them, and then watch the power shift to you. Controlled mad, by the way, this is what I should have done, my same exact advice to you even having a remorseful wife. Can’t never have too much consequence to such a terrible act.


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## Marc878

I suspect I love you are just words. As we've seen here meaningless unless actions back them up.

Her actions tell you what?


----------



## Evinrude58

Realize that if OM was younger, or wanted her permanently, you’D be getting the ILYBINILWY speech about now.

As said, saying she loves you and her little family...... yeah...
That’s why she was spending her free time jumping another old dude...


----------



## Gabriel

It's very hard, in a relationship this long, to just say unequivocally that you are done with zero looking back. HOWEVER, if there is any chance of recovery, Scuba, you have to get unafraid to lose your marriage. It's the only way to save it. If you even want to.

Hang in there. 

Give us an update when you can.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

What is that you think you have that you fear losing? 

Your marriage? That died the moment your wife cheated. You do understand that your marriage is currently dead, so in essence you have lost it. 

Your family? You’ve lost this too with the exception of the kids. Your wife is protecting OM by not telling you, so she’s gone, but the kids are still yours. Hell, you have more then I did at the moment. Biologically my kids aren’t mine, but I’m the only father they have ever known. So, you are in fact in better standing then I was. 

Your life? I couldn’t wait to begin working on my new life, whether my wife was included or not. I hit therapy hard, I changed who and what I was. I became the best me possible, then made my decision from strength. Now I know @Nucking Futs doesn’t like to hear me say this, but 99 percent of the time I say to file, work on yourself, then six months later make your decision. Since you’ve filed you aren’t doing nothing, the divorce is in the works, might as well not make a decision until you can accurately gauge the actions of the WS. 

So what is it that you fear? Make life a living hell for your wife as she is doing to you. Start by contacting the OM’s wife and the CEO through your attorney. This will put grandpa in a very tough position at home and work. Your wife will need to be concentrating on her own self as I bet you grandpa throws her under the bus. It’s war scuba, lace up your boots and engage the enemy fiercely.


----------



## Nucking Futs

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> What is that you think you have that you fear losing?
> 
> Your marriage? That died the moment your wife cheated. You do understand that your marriage is currently dead, so in essence you have lost it.
> 
> Your family? You’ve lost this too with the exception of the kids. Your wife is protecting OM by not telling you, so she’s gone, but the kids are still yours. Hell, you have more then I did at the moment. Biologically my kids aren’t mine, but I’m the only father they have ever known. So, you are in fact in better standing then I was.
> 
> Your life? I couldn’t wait to begin working on my new life, whether my wife was included or not. I hit therapy hard, I changed who and what I was. I became the best me possible, then made my decision from strength. *Now I know @Nucking Futs doesn’t like to hear me say this, but 99 percent of the time I say to file, work on yourself, then six months later make your decision.* Since you’ve filed you aren’t doing nothing, the divorce is in the works, might as well not make a decision until you can accurately gauge the actions of the WS.
> 
> So what is it that you fear? Make life a living hell for your wife as she is doing to you. Start by contacting the OM’s wife and the CEO through your attorney. This will put grandpa in a very tough position at home and work. Your wife will need to be concentrating on her own self as I bet you grandpa throws her under the bus. It’s war scuba, lace up your boots and engage the enemy fiercely.


Nope, I'm 100% with you on that.


----------



## StarFires

Don't listen to these people telling you to contact the OM's wife or to report the affair to your job. He is also YOUR superior so unless you don't care about your job, you still have to work there. If you cause trouble for him, no one will care but you, and no one will care that he had affair with your wife. They will keep him and fire you. Reporting works in some workplaces, but this guy is not her peer and not your peer. He's not her direct supervisor either. When it comes to the higher ups and friends of the CEO and all that jazz, they will do whatever they can to protect their own. If this were a woman claiming sexual harassment, it would be dealt with differently, or if it were someone claiming discrimination. There are laws governing that type of thing. There might be a non-fraternization clause in the contract, but those are easily finessed when it comes to a thing like this. You and your wife both will end up losing your jobs because they won't want the scandal around the office, but they won't fire him. He won't lose a penny or one night's sleep. And this will also go on your record, so you might not even be able to get hired elsewhere for a very long time. Please don't let people here talk you into ruining your life. You still have your future and your little girl to think about.

Regarding your question about her choosing this considerably older man to have an affair with, I understand it is perplexing, but there are a couple things you might need to understand. One is that women are attracted to power (his position in the company). A major alpha male trait is that he represents power and is powerful. The second thing is if he came on to her, she felt compelled to comply. His power was intriguing to her and being powerful (a higher up in the company), she may have wanted to take him up on the offer, but she also may have felt she HAD to take him up on the offer. She didn't necessarily think "Oowee, I can't wait to get in bed with him." Some major thoughts in her mind very likely were "How do I say no? What will it mean for me if I turn him down? Will I get passed over for promotions? Will I eventually get fired?" There's a lot more to it than what you see on the surface, so it's easy for you to ask "Why him?" and to note that he's so much older than her.

I'm sure you are aware of the MeToo Movement across the country and the Time's Up Movement of women in the entertainment industry. These movements and their protests were not borne of imagined circumstances. They were borne because millions of women have been sexually harassed and because they feel pressured to have sex with their male superiors (females too for all I know) in order to get a job or to keep their job. It's an age-old story. I'm sure you've also heard about the "casting couch." You never know who slept with whom in order to get a part in a play, TV show, or movie, or who didn't get that part because they refused to sleep with someone. You also never know who slept with whom in order to get a job, to get a promotion, or to be able to keep her job. Most women who are propositioned do comply, even if they weren't threatened and if there was no particular pressure applied. Just the approach/request/proposition is automatically pressure. Women comply because the guy is powerful, so there's the flattering element involved. Just by the fact that he pays her attention, it makes her feel special that he is interested in her of all the other women. It's flattering that he noticed her and thinks favorably of her. And, some comply out of fear of what declining might mean for them because there often follows a stigma of ill favor if they don't, and no one wants a bad reputation their character and job performance didn't warrant. They comply when they want to and/or when they don't want to. 

So depending on how the affair occurred and the circumstances under which it began, she might actually have a harassment lawsuit to pursue. If she approached him, then obviously not. But if he approached her and his advances were initially unwelcomed, it may be a good idea for her to contact an attorney, the EEOC, and/or the MeToo Movement to ascertain exactly what constitutes sexual harassment in your state and if she was a victim of it. I know for certain that it becomes a slippery slope when a superior sleeps with a subordinate. Many women don't know they are being sexually harassed until they learn about the intricacies of the definition because quid pro quo can be very subtly implied, but her consent and being a willing participant doesn't automatically make her exempt from harassment.

Often times, such as in the cases of many of the harassment charges and allegations reported in the media over the past year or two (Larry Nassar, Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Eric Weinberger, et alii), once one woman finds the strength to report, many others come out of the woodwork in support to tell their own stories. This man, more than likely, has slept with other women in the workplace. It isn't likely they will speak up for fear of their own jobs and marriages, but it also isn't likely this was his first time and your wife was just so irresistible. I'm betting he has abused his power many times over.

I'm not saying this is any excuse for cheating. I'm saying this just might be the reason that she did. I realize you haven't made up your mind yet, so I think you and she should see a counselor so she feels safe to confess everything to you, which might also include telling you how the affair came about. She also hasn't been sufficiently remorseful and really should be begging your forgiveness, but that might come out in therapy also.

Like many people here, I believe in divorcing a cheater. I know this is incredibly painful for you and that you're confused as to what to do right now. If you are receptive to reconciling, then don't let people here talk you into leaving your wife. There may be other circumstances surrounding what she did, and she might have felt like she had no choice. If that is something forgivable to you, then you will want to delve deeper into it. Don't ask leading questions, just ask for the story. You want the whole truth, but you don't want to help her with excuses to make it seem like she was victimized if she really wasn't.


----------



## drifting on

StarFires said:


> Don't listen to these people telling you to contact the OM's wife or to report the affair to your job. He is also YOUR superior so unless you don't care about your job, you still have to work there. If you cause trouble for him, no one will care but you, and no one will care that he had affair with your wife. They will keep him and fire you. Reporting works in some workplaces, but this guy is not her peer and not your peer. He's not her direct supervisor either. When it comes to the higher ups and friends of the CEO and all that jazz, they will do whatever they can to protect their own. If this were a woman claiming sexual harassment, it would be dealt with differently, or if it were someone claiming discrimination. There are laws governing that type of thing. There might be a non-fraternization clause in the contract, but those are easily finessed when it comes to a thing like this. You and your wife both will end up losing your jobs because they won't want the scandal around the office, but they won't fire him. He won't lose a penny or one night's sleep. And this will also go on your record, so you might not even be able to get hired elsewhere for a very long time. Please don't let people here talk you into ruining your life. You still have your future and your little girl to think about.
> 
> Regarding your question about her choosing this considerably older man to have an affair with, I understand it is perplexing, but there are a couple things you might need to understand. One is that women are attracted to power (his position in the company). A major alpha male trait is that he represents power and is powerful. The second thing is if he came on to her, she felt compelled to comply. His power was intriguing to her and being powerful (a higher up in the company), she may have wanted to take him up on the offer, but she also may have felt she HAD to take him up on the offer. She didn't necessarily think "Oowee, I can't wait to get in bed with him." Some major thoughts in her mind very likely were "How do I say no? What will it mean for me if I turn him down? Will I get passed over for promotions? Will I eventually get fired?" There's a lot more to it than what you see on the surface, so it's easy for you to ask "Why him?" and to note that he's so much older than her.
> 
> I'm sure you are aware of the MeToo Movement across the country and the Time's Up Movement of women in the entertainment industry. These movements and their protests were not borne of imagined circumstances. They were borne because millions of women have been sexually harassed and because they feel pressured to have sex with their male superiors (females too for all I know) in order to get a job or to keep their job. It's an age-old story. I'm sure you've also heard about the "casting couch." You never know who slept with whom in order to get a part in a play, TV show, or movie, or who didn't get that part because they refused to sleep with someone. You also never know who slept with whom in order to get a job, to get a promotion, or to be able to keep her job. Most women who are propositioned do comply, even if they weren't threatened and if there was no particular pressure applied. Just the approach/request/proposition is automatically pressure. Women comply because the guy is powerful, so there's the flattering element involved. Just by the fact that he pays her attention, it makes her feel special that he is interested in her of all the other women. It's flattering that he noticed her and thinks favorably of her. And, some comply out of fear of what declining might mean for them because there often follows a stigma of ill favor if they don't, and no one wants a bad reputation their character and job performance didn't warrant. They comply when they want to and/or when they don't want to.
> 
> So depending on how the affair occurred and the circumstances under which it began, she might actually have a harassment lawsuit to pursue. If she approached him, then obviously not. But if he approached her and his advances were initially unwelcomed, it may be a good idea for her to contact an attorney, the EEOC, and/or the MeToo Movement to ascertain exactly what constitutes sexual harassment in your state and if she was a victim of it. I know for certain that it becomes a slippery slope when a superior sleeps with a subordinate. Many women don't know they are being sexually harassed until they learn about the intricacies of the definition because quid pro quo can be very subtly implied, but her consent and being a willing participant doesn't automatically make her exempt from harassment.
> 
> Often times, such as in the cases of many of the harassment charges and allegations reported in the media over the past year or two (Larry Nassar, Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Eric Weinberger, et alii), once one woman finds the strength to report, many others come out of the woodwork in support to tell their own stories. This man, more than likely, has slept with other women in the workplace. It isn't likely they will speak up for fear of their own jobs and marriages, but it also isn't likely this was his first time and your wife was just so irresistible. I'm betting he has abused his power many times over.
> 
> I'm not saying this is any excuse for cheating. I'm saying this just might be the reason that she did. I realize you haven't made up your mind yet, so I think you and she should see a counselor so she feels safe to confess everything to you, which might also include telling you how the affair came about. She also hasn't been sufficiently remorseful and really should be begging your forgiveness, but that might come out in therapy also.
> 
> Like many people here, I believe in divorcing a cheater. I know this is incredibly painful for you and that you're confused as to what to do right now. If you are receptive to reconciling, then don't let people here talk you into leaving your wife. There may be other circumstances surrounding what she did, and she might have felt like she had no choice. If that is something forgivable to you, then you will want to delve deeper into it. Don't ask leading questions, just ask for the story. You want the whole truth, but you don't want to help her with excuses to make it seem like she was victimized if she really wasn't.




Hence having scuba’s attorney sending a letter to the CEO. If there is no bad reports in scuba’s personnel file and suddenly he is having infractions against him, his lawyer will have a field day with retaliation. Same for his wife, and as you pointed out, scuba’s wife just may have had sex with a superior because she feared for her job. This in turn would be classified as quid pro quo sexual harassment, something I’m sure the CEO wouldn’t want to be informed of by an attorney. Either way this places scuba in a position of strength, he can’t be retaliated against as he can then expose the scandal publicly against the company and in court. I’m sure the CEO isn’t going to want the negative press, possible lawsuit(s), and bad press that comes with this type of situation. Scuba, you have far more power then you realize, use it to the best of your advantage, legally.


----------



## StarFires

drifting on said:


> Hence having scuba’s attorney sending a letter to the CEO. If there is no bad reports in scuba’s personnel file and suddenly he is having infractions against him, his lawyer will have a field day with retaliation. Same for his wife, and as you pointed out, scuba’s wife just may have had sex with a superior because she feared for her job. This in turn would be classified as quid pro quo sexual harassment, something I’m sure the CEO wouldn’t want to be informed of by an attorney. Either way this places scuba in a position of strength, he can’t be retaliated against as he can then expose the scandal publicly against the company and in court. I’m sure the CEO isn’t going to want the negative press, possible lawsuit(s), and bad press that comes with this type of situation. Scuba, you have far more power then you realize, use it to the best of your advantage, legally.


I'm saying I don't see it as something for HIM (nor his attorney) to do, but you and others are encouraging him when he has no legal standing since "Betrayed Husband" is not a protected category. It's for HER to do. He would still have the same recourse if he is retaliated against, but he doesn't have a case of sexual harassment or any other legal one. He can't even claim alienation of affection. She's the one who might have a case. If he or his attorney sends a letter to the CEO, he has no recourse for retaliation at all, at least not one founded on a legal basis. It would be on a civil basis and hard to win. If, however, his wife files a sexual harassment charge, they will both be protected by law.


----------



## drifting on

StarFires said:


> I'm saying I don't see it as something for HIM (nor his attorney) to do, but you and others are encouraging him when he has no legal standing since "Betrayed Husband" is not a protected category. It's for HER to do. He would still have the same recourse if he is retaliated against, but he doesn't have a case of sexual harassment or any other legal one. He can't even claim alienation of affection. She's the one who might have a case. If he or his attorney sends a letter to the CEO, he has no recourse for retaliation at all, at least not one founded on a legal basis. It would be on a civil basis and hard to win. If, however, his wife files a sexual harassment charge, they will both be protected by law.




I’ll agree to disagree, as this argument could go on for pages. If he has his attorney send the letter, OM admits to CEO there was an affair, scuba proves there was an affair, scuba will be protected from retaliation. Scuba also gets what he wants in that the affair is exposed at work and now will know it has ended. His lawyer could also send a subpoena for all communication between grandpa and his wife. The company will be forced to submit this information, thus helping scuba more. Friendship only goes so far if a company may hang in the balance, and I think grandpa will resign.


----------



## StarFires

drifting on said:


> I’ll agree to disagree, as this argument could go on for pages. If he has his attorney send the letter, OM admits to CEO there was an affair, scuba proves there was an affair, scuba will be protected from retaliation. Scuba also gets what he wants in that the affair is exposed at work and now will know it has ended. His lawyer could also send a subpoena for all communication between grandpa and his wife. The company will be forced to submit this information, thus helping scuba more. Friendship only goes so far if a company may hang in the balance, and I think grandpa will resign.


Yes, I'll agree to disagree because I think your perfect world outcome is idealistic and isn't based on any laws of class or category protection. I think what you're suggesting could follow her charge but not prior to hers. I also think that unless she makes a claim or charge, or it becomes known throughout the office, he has no concern for retaliation. His attorney will have to be the one to guide him if he decides to pursue that route. I think his attorney will advise that it's not worth the risk of pursuing unless she is willing to file a claim or press charges. 

ETA: I also think you are telling him to send some letter and IN the letter ask for the evidence, when he doesn't have any evidence beforehand, and therefore nothing to tell the CEO about. All he has is the man's phone number and the calls between him and her. That does not prove an affair. So what is this letter supposed to say exactly? "Hey, I think this old man had an affair with my wife, so you better make him confess and give me the evidence." That's why I'm saying it wouldn't even fly in civil court. That's also why it can be dangerous for people to act on some of the advice that is given to them on these boards. Luckily, at least for this member, he would have an attorney advising him better because he needs his wife to be on board, or he can't do anything.


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## 3putt

StarFires said:


> Yes, I'll agree to disagree because I think your perfect world outcome is idealistic and isn't based on any laws of class or category protection. I think what you're suggesting could follow her charge but not prior to hers. His attorney will have to be the one to guide him if he decides to pursue that route.


What he is basing it on is not his ideals, but the countless times we have seen in play out, right here on this board, just the way he described. What he said is about as real and accurate as it gets.


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## GusPolinski

StarFires said:


> Yes, I'll agree to disagree because I think your perfect world outcome is idealistic and isn't based on any laws of *class or category protection*. I think what you're suggesting could follow her charge but not prior to hers. I also think that unless she makes a claim or charge, or it becomes known throughout the office, he has no concern of retaliation. His attorney will have to be the one to guide him if he decides to pursue that route.


:lol: :rofl:


----------



## StarFires

3putt said:


> What he is basing it on is not his ideals, but the countless times we have seen in play out, right here on this board, just the way he described. What he said is about as real and accurate as it gets.


It's the details that get neglected. I have no doubt betrayed spouses have done what was suggested. I am not disputing that, nor am I saying it cannot happen successfully. But I am saying it has NEVER happened without evidence or without the wayward spouse's cooperation. So, he is being told to send a letter accusing that he THINKS a superior of an affair with his wife without any evidence and for the letter to ask for the evidence because he doesn't any. You guys forget his wife has not and is not willing to name her affair partner, and, unless she does, her husband has nothing for the letter to say except his suspicions. Until she makes a claim of sexual harassment or files charges or at least will name her AP for the sake of this letter, he best not try this trick. Those who did it successfully either had evidence, their spouse's cooperation, or both. He would even have reason to do it if the VARs yielded anything because that would be evidence, but they haven't so far.


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## Evinrude58

I agree he’d better get legal advice before any exposure to his company. And if he wisely divorced his wife, he’ll need her working!!!


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## Chaparral

In that case he needs to first notify Posom’s wife. Let the fur fly and then seek subpoenas. He can get this because the PI in effect identified him on the phone uasage didn’t he? 

F you need him to answer his burner phone, get the PI to use an app like “Bluff My Call”!


----------



## Chaparral

He can also bluff his wife if he carefully drops the old
Posom’s name as in “ if you need blah blah blah blah, call old Posom. You fired me from the husband job when you started scr::::: your bosses!” I’m guessing she will say something like how do you know?


----------



## StarFires

Chaparral said:


> In that case he needs to first notify Posom’s wife. Let the fur fly and then seek subpoenas. He can get this because the PI in effect identified him on the phone uasage didn’t he?
> 
> F you need him to answer his burner phone, get the PI to use an app like “Bluff My Call”!


You guys are getting caught up in the intrigue and, again, neglecting the details. We already know the number belongs to the AP, and I have stated that. But who a phone number belongs to (and the number of calls made to/from that number and to/from whom) is not evidence of an affair. All it provides is good reason for a spouse to be suspicious, but that spouse certainly cannot send the CEO of his own company a letter stating his suspicions and demanding the evidence from the AP.


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## manfromlamancha

StarFires said:


> You guys are getting caught up in the intrigue and, again, neglecting the details. We already know the number belongs to the AP, and I have stated that. But who a phone number belongs to (and the number of calls made to/from that number and to/from whom) is not evidence of an affair. All it provides is good reason for a spouse to be suspicious, but that spouse certainly cannot send the CEO of his own company a letter stating his suspicions and demanding the evidence from the AP.


WW has admitted to the affair - fact! She apologised for using the condoms - fact! The number she has been calling is that of the grandpa POSOM - fact! So we are deliberating about who she actually ****ed? Really ? Was it boss junior or boss senior ? Or maybe we are wondering if she ****ed both of them ? I guess that would be a valid point.


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## sa58

Scuba Steve I hope you are ok today.
You have gotten some really great advice from this site.
I hope you reread most of it.

I wonder why your wife decided to have an affair with someone like Grandpa.
You said nobody likes him but he is high up in the company. Could it be job security
or possible future promotion? Why does she seem to be protecting her Emotional or
Physical connection to him? She does not want to discuss the affair and continues to keep
her phone and other information secret. Is it possible she is doing this because it may be of
future use to her? Her actions so far indicate to me that she is placing this affair above her marriage.
What do you think and how do you feel about it?

I understand the legal aspect of this situation and your concerns. Large companies tend to retain 
large law firms for many reasons . This may be one of them. You do have one legal option however.
Divorce!! As for the house if it is hers and you do not have to pay her one damn cent for it then let 
her keep it. Have you seen a lawyer yet? I also understand that large companies also like for their
top people to be married . For appearance sake. Could this be way your wife says she loves you and her family?
If you have her served at work how do you think she will react.? Will she be upset because she is losing you or
upset because of how it will appear? If you do have her served and she says she is willing to do anything to save
her marriage then tell her! FULL DISCLOSURE and not contact with the OM,(NEW JOB) Why not have her served and 
then you may find out what she cares about the most,you and her marriage or OM and her job. What do you have to 
lose? A cheating lying wife? Find out who she really is? Does she really care about you or just herself?
Given her actions so far herself! Let her show her true self and where her priorities are. Do not be afraid to do this
you can always stop the divorce later.

How much longer do you plan on waiting? How much more information do you need to know that she lies
and cheats? Based on her actions you will never know the truth. You will never know everything 
just what she tells you. Do not torture yourself to long. Do you want to continue living in a cesspool of lies
and cheating? Think about yourself and your child only, do not consider her feelings at all (SHE DID NOT THINK 
ABOUT YOU WHILE CHEATING) Whatever fate comes her way is her own doing. She cheated not you.
Is it really worth it to continue? Based on her actions so far is she really worth it? If she continues to
rug sweep the affair and disrespect you do you stay.?

I wonder how many people at her work know about her affair. Her toxic friend, the OM and who he has told.
Does she seem to show any shame or humiliation? If the OM knows the CEO he has probably told him (BRAGGED)
The way you describe him I would think so. Do not allow her tears fake or real to influence your decision.
Decide what you want and what is best for you. She may try tears. sex and other means to influence 
you. Do not let her!!


----------



## TAMAT

One odd detail, if she is really done with the affair, why did she keep the condoms. 

Tamat


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve 
Why was she so amazed by the other guys tats?
How did she know about the ones that were covered up?
Why does she not like tats? Why was she talking about him
so much and then stopped when you became upset?
Are you sure nothing happened with him? I agree with TAMAT 
if her affair was over why keep the condoms? Maybe more than one
or for future use? See a lawyer and file. ASAP


----------



## OutofRetirement

The affair was over but she still worked with the old dude. I base the affair being over based on the conversations between wife and the unknown toxic confidante Steve discovered through illegal wiretapping his wife on VAR. It's possible wife lied the affair being over in secret conversation with toxic friend but in my opinion that's unlikely. 

I would expect that the old dude didn't voluntarily give up the much younger woman. I also don't think she gave it up either because the quantity in frequency and length of calls and messaging showed she was emotionally invested. So that leaves me with the possible conclusion that the old dude got caught or had a huge scare by a coworker or management-type who could inflict damage on his livelihood, or someone (ie his wife or adult child) who could inflict damage on his personal life.

Why is she holding onto the condoms? Maybe she was hoping old dude would start back up again after the dust settles (assuming he broke it off). Likewise, she still was guarding the phone and sleeping with it under her pillow. Or may she lied to her toxic confidante and it lives. 

Think about all the usual "normal" stuff that cheaters do in the Cheaters' Handbook, and pick your poison as to who and how and why. I don't see Steve's wife as anything but a run-of-the-mill cheater. Only in hindsight usually can we see our own cheater in the same light. I don't think Steve is there yet. No doubt he will get there. Mrs. Scuba is not going to win the 2018 Remorseful Cheater of the Year award.

I mention the illegal wiretapping because Steve is so worried about the old dude firing him and whether he can ask his wife to leave the house, but not about possibly being prosecuted if toxic confidante (or even disloyal wife) finds out.


----------



## x598

OutofRetirement said:


> The affair was over but she still worked with the old dude. I base the affair being over based on the conversations between wife and the unknown toxic confidante Steve discovered through illegal wiretapping his wife on VAR. It's possible wife lied the affair being over in secret conversation with toxic friend but in my opinion that's unlikely.
> 
> I would expect that the old dude didn't voluntarily give up the much younger woman. I also don't think she gave it up either because the quantity in frequency and length of calls and messaging showed she was emotionally invested. So that leaves me with the possible conclusion that the old dude got caught or had a huge scare by a coworker or management-type who could inflict damage on his livelihood, or someone (ie his wife or adult child) who could inflict damage on his personal life.
> 
> Why is she holding onto the condoms? Maybe she was hoping old dude would start back up again after the dust settles (assuming he broke it off). Likewise, she still was guarding the phone and sleeping with it under her pillow. Or may she lied to her toxic confidante and it lives.
> 
> Think about all the usual "normal" stuff that cheaters do in the Cheaters' Handbook, and pick your poison as to who and how and why. I don't see Steve's wife as anything but a run-of-the-mill cheater. Only in hindsight usually can we see our own cheater in the same light. I don't think Steve is there yet. No doubt he will get there. Mrs. Scuba is not going to win the 2018 Remorseful Cheater of the Year award.
> 
> I mention the illegal wiretapping because Steve is so worried about the old dude firing him and whether he can ask his wife to leave the house, but not about possibly being prosecuted if toxic confidante (or even disloyal wife) finds out.


if the OP was worried about getting fired from his job......he would have a huge lawsuit against the company due to the affair his wife had with the boss. 

the boss should be worried about being fired for the affair.


----------



## curious234

x598 said:


> if the OP was worried about getting fired from his job......he would have a huge lawsuit against the company due to the affair his wife had with the boss.
> 
> the boss should be worried about being fired for the affair.


If OP want to R one possibility is asking WW (along with OP) to sue the Boss for misusing authority. Keeping silent (especially if WW is talking to the OM) runs the risk OP being laid off. With nothing to show for OP cannot sue the company especially if WW also looked the other way


----------



## skerzoid

Elvis in the building?


----------



## Windwalker

Lol, well it's clear to see that StarFires is working her normal 2 page diatribe magic. SMFH. UGH, and double UGH! 

Here's were she's not only wrong but, dead wrong. The POSOM and his wife ****ing and having an affair creates a HOSTILE WORK EVIRONMENT for Steve. On that basis alone he can go to HR and file a complaint and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Go ahead and let's see the company retaliate against him. His lawyer could have their nuts in a wringer so fast it would make their head spin.

Steve, remember this and keep it in your back pocket. You have more leverage than you think. Get yourself to the lawyer and see what your options are.


----------



## skerzoid

Windwalker said:


> Lol, well it's clear to see that StarFires is working her normal 2 page diatribe magic. SMFH. UGH, and double UGH!
> 
> Here's were she's not only wrong but, dead wrong. The POSOM and his wife ****ing and having an affair creates a HOSTILE WORK EVIRONMENT for Steve. On that basis alone he can go to HR and file a complaint and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Go ahead and let's see the company retaliate against him. His lawyer could have their nuts in a wringer so fast it would make their head spin.
> 
> Steve, remember this and keep it in your back pocket. You have more leverage than you think. Get yourself to the lawyer and see what your options are.


I would think that if they retaliated in any way that he would own the fricking place. But I am just an old coach not a lawyer.


----------



## Windwalker

skerzoid said:


> I would think that if they retaliated in any way that he would own the fricking place. But I am just an old coach not a lawyer.


I would think so too. Especially if and when the sexual harrassment angle comes into play.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I would be willing to put a few bucks on this one though.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I know guys want me to take some kind of action. I probably should do something. Normal I would do something but this isn’t a normal situation. I’m not in the right frame of mind to take any kind of action. My emotions are all over the place right now I’m numb. Is it even normal not to feel anything. For the last two days that’s what I’ve been feeling just numb to everything. I can’t really explain it. I’m not angry or sad I don’t feel anything. It scares me. At first this whole thing was heart breaking until the day I found out. It all turned to anger but I feel it’s passed. 


I’ve listened to part of recording from the VAR I left in her room. She hasn’t said anything that i didn’t already know. Although she has now told her sister. Listening to recording get a feeling that she knew but not everything. But unlike her friend my wife sister encouraged my wife to come clean. Going by the way my wife was talking I think she’s as confused as I am. 

I still haven’t listened to the whole recording so I still have to do that. I planning on doing it tonight.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Of course numbness is normal. Pretty much anything you feel right now is normal. Listen to the rest of the VAR and I would suggest giving your PI more time following and digging before you take any action or tip your hand. 

Through all of this, please keep in mind that if she is not remorseful, there is no way you can have a successful reconciliation. Period. Its all wasting your time, spinning your wheels and breaking your heart if there is no remorse. So far, I am am sensing ZERO remorse from her, she just seems angry that she got discovered. Sad.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know guys want me to take some kind of action. I probably should do something. Normal I would do something but this isn’t a normal situation. I’m not in the right frame of mind to take any kind of action. My emotions are all over the place right now I’m numb. Is it even normal not to feel anything. For the last two days that’s what I’ve been feeling just numb to everything. I can’t really explain it. I’m not angry or sad I don’t feel anything. It scares me. At first this whole thing was heart breaking until the day I found out. It all turned to anger but I feel it’s passed.
> 
> 
> I’ve listened to part of recording from the VAR I left in her room. She hasn’t said anything that i didn’t already know. Although she has now told her sister. Listening to recording get a feeling that she knew but not everything. But unlike her friend my wife sister encouraged my wife to come clean. Going by the way my wife was talking I think she’s as confused as I am.
> 
> I still haven’t listened to the whole recording so I still have to do that. I planning on doing it tonight.


Steve, you are in shock.Totally normal. Take your time.


----------



## Thor

Don't do anything without consulting with an attorney. Don't confront OM, don't agree to anything with your W financially or wrt the kids, don't have sex with your W, don't contact OM's boss or HR, don't kick your W out of the house.

Go ahead and listen to the VAR and continue with the PI if you want. 

Just be aware that there are many legal traps or potential unintended consequences to almost anything you do. People here want to vicariously get satisfaction by you nuking OM.

Exposure serves to end an affair and hopefully bring a cheater back into the marriage. If you are determined to R, exposure is a necessity. But it doesn't have to be to the whole world! The OM's W, family, certain friends, maybe a minister if you're church people, and spouses of toxic enabler friends. Exposing to work has many potential pitfalls and needs to be thought out carefully for risk/reward.

If you are going to D, exposure doesn't serve many purposes. It can help preserve your reputation from malicious lies. But it can have negative effects, too. My general opinion is to withhold exposure during D other than to your close family and perhaps a very trusted friend. After the D is finalized, nuke away.


----------



## OutofRetirement

If my 30-ish brother told me he cheated on his loyal wife to have an ongoing affair with a 60-70-year-old Grandma, I'd have a whole lot of questions. I might actually offer to go with him to get evaluated mentally.

Didn't your wife's sister didn't question that?

There are a range of normal responses to any stimuli. And "normal" might be "abnormal." If you hit me over the head with a hammer, and I'm bleeding profusely, that's "normal," but also "abnormal" to a healthy person.

Steve, I think you should talk to a doctor, at least a therapist. You might be in PTSD or a depression. Both somewhat "normal" given your situation, but also abnormal for a healthy person.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I think the numbness is a sort of defense mechanism, certainly nothing to be afraid of. You'll go through a roller coaster of emotions over the coming months. At some point you'll reach clarity about what to do. Give yourself enough time. However, it does not hurt to get the divorce ball rolling. The process can be halted at any point. 

The fact that she's not already down on her knees begging for forgiveness is certainly going to make her case for reconciliation very weak.


----------



## Marc878

Hard 180. It'll help clear your mind. Your still in shock from getting the truth. You need clarity. Maybe the weekend away to friends, family, etc.

Your wife isn't confused. Shes trying to figure out how to cover her ass. At your expense. Looking for options which is not a good sign by the way.

What's her demeanor now? She said anything?


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Many of us here have felt that same shock and numbness that you feel today. I assure you that what you feel is normal, infidelity has a wide range of emotions that you will feel. In some ways I believe your numbness to be keeping you in limbo, on the fence so to speak. This can be a very dangerous place to be, and coupled with your wife’s actions and words, I think it’s even more dangerous. Scuba, you have to take some sort of action, filing would be one action, and even if you decide to reconcile you can stop the process. From your posts it seems your wife believes you will take no action, that you are taking this too seriously, and that ultimately nothing will happen to her. You need to shake her up, emotionally you need to shake her up violently. I say this not in a physical way, but to blow up her world as she has done to yours. Her confusion is far less then yours is, and believe me, she will take the advice of the toxic frien over her sister every day of the week.

Your wife is very weak, she isn’t strong at all, and she’s going to find herself in a world of despair when you realize the full impact. Your brain has you feeling numb as it is protecting itself, I know, I went through that too. I was told I was suffering from PTSD as well as depression. Nothing but my kids kept me happy, or even had me feel happiness. With all that I still sat at my kitchen table and put my weapon to my head, I then gently squeezed the trigger. First thought when I realized I wasn’t dead was that I can’t even get this right. I made mistakes, but finding here (TAM) got me going on the right path. People who never knew me had helped me so much, it was nice just to come to a community who knew how and what I felt. I applied advice that wasn’t even written to me directly, some was, and began to pick myself up. It’s tough to do, but when you hit rock bottom you can either die or go up. 

File scuba, list OM and adultery as the reasons, have her served at work. You need maximum impact to your actions right now, and this would be a best first shot. Follow that with a call to OM’s wife, let her know and then let her do what she feels is necessary. As for work, I don’t think they will retaliate, but I would advise telling your attorney of all actions you plan to take. Then let the consequences fall as they will, back off a bit, find a way to heal yourself. When feeling better you can decide what actions to take, such as if you expose at work. But I still would send the CEO a letter from your lawyer, if only to protect your employment. Let your attorney decide if this would be helpful. Best of luck to you.


----------



## TAMAT

SS, 

I believe the reason your WW is showing no remorse is that she lost all her love for you during the affair, this is why she says she loves her little family. It's hard to show remorse when you've lost the love of your life and ended up with your plan B, she does not regret her affair it was a magical experience for her. 

The first thing you can do is DNA your child based on that alone you may want to divorce without any other evidence.

Tamat


----------



## TAMAT

The numbness is normal it's a way to us to continue making money, driving to work and keeping going. 

Just don't rugsweep it the way I did for 20+ years.

Tamat


----------



## eric1

Shock is quite normal. Next up is anger which is a very important stage. Anger fuels action.

The affair isn’t over yet. That much should make you mad.


----------



## GusPolinski

eric1 said:


> Shock is quite normal. Next up is anger which is a very important stage. Anger fuels action.
> 
> The affair isn’t over yet. That much should make you mad.


Rule #1 of affairs, @Scuba_Steve —

Until 100% no contact has been established, the affair is ongoing.


----------



## x598

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know guys want me to take some kind of action. I probably should do something. Normal I would do something but this isn’t a normal situation. I’m not in the right frame of mind to take any kind of action. My emotions are all over the place right now I’m numb. Is it even normal not to feel anything. For the last two days that’s what I’ve been feeling just numb to everything. I can’t really explain it. I’m not angry or sad I don’t feel anything. It scares me. At first this whole thing was heart breaking until the day I found out. It all turned to anger but I feel it’s passed.
> 
> 
> I’ve listened to part of recording from the VAR I left in her room. She hasn’t said anything that i didn’t already know. Although she has now told her sister. Listening to recording get a feeling that she knew but not everything. But unlike her friend my wife sister encouraged my wife to come clean. Going by the way my wife was talking I think she’s as confused as I am.
> 
> I still haven’t listened to the whole recording so I still have to do that. I planning on doing it tonight.


one stage of grief is DENIAL.

like all this is a bad dream and you are going to wake up and realize none of it happened.

so sorry but you will be all over the place until you accept what has happened as fact. part of not knowing the details of what happens leaves that door slightly open to the chance this didn't really happen.

unfortunately, it did happen.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know guys want me to take some kind of action. I probably should do something. Normal I would do something but this isn’t a normal situation. I’m not in the right frame of mind to take any kind of action. My emotions are all over the place right now I’m numb. Is it even normal not to feel anything. For the last two days that’s what I’ve been feeling just numb to everything. I can’t really explain it. I’m not angry or sad I don’t feel anything. It scares me. At first this whole thing was heart breaking until the day I found out. It all turned to anger but I feel it’s passed.
> 
> 
> I’ve listened to part of recording from the VAR I left in her room. She hasn’t said anything that i didn’t already know. Although she has now told her sister. Listening to recording get a feeling that she knew but not everything. But unlike her friend my wife sister encouraged my wife to come clean. Going by the way my wife was talking I think she’s as confused as I am.
> 
> I still haven’t listened to the whole recording so I still have to do that. I planning on doing it tonight.


Do not take any action until your emotions are under control. Get some sleep if you are unable to sleep through the night. Hit the gym and exercise. Exercise is extremely beneficial in reducing stress. 

I would strongly encourage you to consult legal counsel regarding this situation. Know your rights and available options. Protect yourself from any retaliatory actions on the part of Grandpa. Grandpa, in all likelihood, is in deep **** legally. You may not know it but you very likely have him by the balls if you want to drop the ziggy on him. This is where legal counsel can help you chart a course of action. If it was me, I would pursue all avenues legally available to make his life a living hell. He deserves nothing less. A good lawyer could very likely land you a pretty lucrative settlement.

Now as to your wife, she is not anywhere near remorseful from what you have posted in my opinion. She is protecting Grandpa for some reason. Why will your wife not tell you who. Will her sister tell you who it is to confirm. How long did her sister know of the affair and not tell you? Who else knew of the affair besides the toxic friend? I will bet you a six pack of your favorite beer it was no secret at work she was banging grandpa.

Consequences! What are you considering so your wife experiences consequences? Have you asked her to leave the house? You need time away from her.

Stay strong. You are doing fine. This **** storm is not easy to navigate your way through, but you can and will do it.


----------



## drifting on

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Do not take any action until your emotions are under control. Get some sleep if you are unable to sleep through the night. Hit the gym and exercise. Exercise is extremely beneficial in reducing stress.
> 
> I would strongly encourage you to consult legal counsel regarding this situation. Know your rights and available options. Protect yourself from any retaliatory actions on the part of Grandpa. Grandpa, in all likelihood, is in deep **** legally. You may not know it but you very likely have him by the balls if you want to drop the ziggy on him. This is where legal counsel can help you chart a course of action. If it was me, I would pursue all avenues legally available to make his life a living hell. He deserves nothing less. A good lawyer could very likely land you a pretty lucrative settlement.
> 
> Now as to your wife, she is not anywhere near remorseful from what you have posted in my opinion. She is protecting Grandpa for some reason. Why will your wife not tell you who. Will her sister tell you who it is to confirm. How long did her sister know of the affair and not tell you? Who else knew of the affair besides the toxic friend? I will bet you a six pack of your favorite beer it was no secret at work she was banging grandpa.
> 
> Consequences! What are you considering so your wife experiences consequences? Have you asked her to leave the house? You need time away from her.
> 
> Stay strong. You are doing fine. This **** storm is not easy to navigate your way through, but you can and will do it.




^^^THIS^^^

Read this over and over scuba, you have much more power then you could even fathom. Hostile work environment, possible sexual harassment, possible quid pro quo harrassment, a PI you don’t pay for in OM’s wife, what if coworkers knew and your wife gets promoted? What will the passed over coworker say? What if someone dislikes your wife and says she was promoted because of the affair? Do you see the avenues of how weak grandpa boss is? He is basically a sitting duck waiting to be knocked off the pond. Best of luck.


----------



## colingrant

A sucker punch was landed on your chin, your wife threw it, and you're in the shock period of disbelief and wondering what hit you. You've gotten up off the ground, looking at her with disbelief and checking your mouth for blood while pondering your next step. It's ok


----------



## Suspicious1

Can't you have a trusted friend a brorher, a cousin tgat can listen to the VAR? In my opinion you're in tge right frame of mind to hear this horror show.

Good luck 

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

She already admitted to the cheating. I'm not sure why you would continue to pay for a PI to investigate. She's not remorseful. Everyone suggests things that a BS should read or do and things a WS should read or do. I think in a lot of cases anyone who is considering R should also read the the things a WS should do. Google "how to help your spouse heal from an affair" and see if she is doing any of these things. You will clearly see she is not. Its not just a bunch of BS's telling you to nuke things for their own satisfaction. Although there is some of that here. There is also a lot of people telling you her actions show she isn't remorseful. But that is all they are saying. Do that search and read about what is required of a WS to really have a chance at R. Then recognize the people who do that search are people who understand at least a little of the pain they have caused. The people who read that stuff are proactive in saving their marriage. They will go through the steps and they will do the heavy lifting. 

Go ahead and read, then look at your wife's actions. Fact is most people on these forums know what actions she needs to take. They also know she isn't taking those actions.

Ask yourself this, if you really want to do something, if you really want to achieve a hard fought goal. Do you think you would put a little effort into that goal? Do you think you would research the best paths to success? Do you think you would exhaust all of your efforts to get something you really want and leave no stone unturned to achieve that goal? If your wife's goal is to save "your little family" and that is truly what she wants more than anything else, wouldn't you expect her to put in 100% effort on this goal? 

Really think about your wife objectively here. I say this with sex in marriage all the time, but it holds for everything. Look at your wife's efforts in something she truly wants. Has she worked late into the night for something she wanted? Woken up early to get started on her desires? Has she worried about and researched subjects endlessly to achieve other goals? My guess is yes she has. 

So again, read those articles. Recognize the level of effort she has put into other goals and desires in life. Top priority matters where she has sacrificed in life to achieve. Now, objectively, look at her actions and efforts and sacrifices she has made and taken to help you heal and really give you guys a fighting chance at R. 

Does someone who really truly wants something, does a WS who truly wants to save their marriage and help their spouse heal choose the option of rug sweeping? Do they choose to lie further? Do they choose to ignore your feelings? Do they protect themselves above all, certainly above the marriage itself? 

I encourage you to read up. Read about 180 and how to protect yourself as always. But equally important for someone going back and forth with their emotions is to read from the other side of the equation as well. Read the stuff your wife should be reading. It helps you see what remorse should look like. What actions one should take in an effort to truly help the person they claim to love and cherish. It also helps to keep her actions in perspective with past actions and sacrifices she's made to achieve her goals. 

Think about all of her actions where she did all she could to achieve her goals in life. Then think about her actions now in keeping this marriage together. You will find the answer to try at R or go ahead and D in this equation.

Most of us see the writing on the wall based on what you have written. That is why nearly everyone will tell you to just go ahead and file. I agree with them. Thing is we've all read those articles and truly know what a WS should do and above all WANT to do for you. Not reluctantly do. Not as a reactionary step. She should be proactive in helping YOU. She should be able to come here without prompt and list everything on those lists of what a WS should do to help their BS. ONLY then is R even worth considering from you. Otherwise you are doing nothing to help yourself while she simultaneously does nothing to help you. That is simply prolonging your pain and suffering to same end in the long run.

180 hard now. Protect yourself. Read up and research. This is your life we are talking about. Her actions are telling. Don't just take our word for it though. Read up and research. Think about your wifes past actions and current ones. The truth will smack you in the face about your wife's current actions. Its not pretty. Its not R worthy. Don't take my word for it though. Put in the work yourself. Answer that question for yourself. But answer it from a place of knowledge and perspective. Not bling guessing. In the mean time 180 and protect yourself from further damage. 

I know this is a **** time for you. Im sorry brother.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

SSteve, considering what you have gleaned from the vars so far. If listening to the rest of them yields nothing you already don't know consider some ways to flush her affair partner name out in the open. I am surprised you have not picked up anything yet where she contacts him. But they do work together and she may be contacting him through instant messaging or email or work lines. 

Brainstorming here.

Expose to your/her immediate family/friends and name the OM. She denies it claim a PI dug up the proof and that it is pointless to deny. Show no evidence to her of course. She demands evidence just tell her as she insists on protecting her affair partner more than trying to stay married she will have all the evidence the day the divorce is final, along with all the wedding photos, that it is pointless not to quickly divorce. Just tell her that you are filing/have filed for divorce and although NY state does have an infidelity cause of action you are filing no fault as it is much cheaper and easier. Her sister knows who the OM is. Will her sister lie? Maybe/Maybe not. You two share a child and sister is the aunt. Sister may really pressure your wife to simply confess all and to try and reconcile. During all this drama keep all the batteries on all the VARS fresh, you may get more info. If she confesses to you personally your VAR recording is now legal. If she refuses to confess who wants to stay married to that? Why torture yourself?


----------



## drifting on

TheDudeLebowski said:


> She already admitted to the cheating. I'm not sure why you would continue to pay for a PI to investigate. She's not remorseful. Everyone suggests things that a BS should read or do and things a WS should read or do. I think in a lot of cases anyone who is considering R should also read the the things a WS should do. Google "how to help your spouse heal from an affair" and see if she is doing any of these things. You will clearly see she is not. Its not just a bunch of BS's telling you to nuke things for their own satisfaction. Although there is some of that here. There is also a lot of people telling you her actions show she isn't remorseful. But that is all they are saying. Do that search and read about what is required of a WS to really have a chance at R. Then recognize the people who do that search are people who understand at least a little of the pain they have caused. The people who read that stuff are proactive in saving their marriage. They will go through the steps and they will do the heavy lifting.
> 
> Go ahead and read, then look at your wife's actions. Fact is most people on these forums know what actions she needs to take. They also know she isn't taking those actions.
> 
> Ask yourself this, if you really want to do something, if you really want to achieve a hard fought goal. Do you think you would put a little effort into that goal? Do you think you would research the best paths to success? Do you think you would exhaust all of your efforts to get something you really want and leave no stone unturned to achieve that goal? If your wife's goal is to save "your little family" and that is truly what she wants more than anything else, wouldn't you expect her to put in 100% effort on this goal?
> 
> Really think about your wife objectively here. I say this with sex in marriage all the time, but it holds for everything. Look at your wife's efforts in something she truly wants. Has she worked late into the night for something she wanted? Woken up early to get started on her desires? Has she worried about and researched subjects endlessly to achieve other goals? My guess is yes she has.
> 
> So again, read those articles. Recognize the level of effort she has put into other goals and desires in life. Top priority matters where she has sacrificed in life to achieve. Now, objectively, look at her actions and efforts and sacrifices she has made and taken to help you heal and really give you guys a fighting chance at R.
> 
> Does someone who really truly wants something, does a WS who truly wants to save their marriage and help their spouse heal choose the option of rug sweeping? Do they choose to lie further? Do they choose to ignore your feelings? Do they protect themselves above all, certainly above the marriage itself?
> 
> I encourage you to read up. Read about 180 and how to protect yourself as always. But equally important for someone going back and forth with their emotions is to read from the other side of the equation as well. Read the stuff your wife should be reading. It helps you see what remorse should look like. What actions one should take in an effort to truly help the person they claim to love and cherish. It also helps to keep her actions in perspective with past actions and sacrifices she's made to achieve her goals.
> 
> Think about all of her actions where she did all she could to achieve her goals in life. Then think about her actions now in keeping this marriage together. You will find the answer to try at R or go ahead and D in this equation.
> 
> Most of us see the writing on the wall based on what you have written. That is why nearly everyone will tell you to just go ahead and file. I agree with them. Thing is we've all read those articles and truly know what a WS should do and above all WANT to do for you. Not reluctantly do. Not as a reactionary step. She should be proactive in helping YOU. She should be able to come here without prompt and list everything on those lists of what a WS should do to help their BS. ONLY then is R even worth considering from you. Otherwise you are doing nothing to help yourself while she simultaneously does nothing to help you. That is simply prolonging your pain and suffering to same end in the long run.
> 
> 180 hard now. Protect yourself. Read up and research. This is your life we are talking about. Her actions are telling. Don't just take our word for it though. Read up and research. Think about your wifes past actions and current ones. The truth will smack you in the face about your wife's current actions. Its not pretty. Its not R worthy. Don't take my word for it though. Put in the work yourself. Answer that question for yourself. But answer it from a place of knowledge and perspective. Not bling guessing. In the mean time 180 and protect yourself from further damage.
> 
> I know this is a **** time for you. Im sorry brother.




This post should be a sticky for all involved in infidelity.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Something also to point out, part of her protecting the OM is her protecting her job. She knows she is in deep poo poo just like the boss.


----------



## Chaparral

It’s a possibility she may think she is protecting her and maybe even your job by not saying who the Posom is.

Take your time and think about what you want. There is no hurry to do any thing. The fact is few people reconcile when the wife cheats. About fifteen percent of I remember correctly. That compares to about forty five percent if the husband cheats.

If you want to divorce or reconcile you have different things you must do. A lot depends on what your wife will do. The advice you get here can help you in any case. For example, if you chose t reconcile, your wife must confess and give you any information you want. She also can not work in the same place with her affair partner.....ever. That is why is why you would use evidence against the other man to have him resign or be fired. Otherwise she would have to quit but you would still be working for the same co. as him. I would go after him simply for revenge. But that’s me.

There is no hurry. Consider your options, get legal advice, see your doctor for temporary help and see a counselor.


----------



## sandcastle

Get over this *****.

Save your VAR money and do something other than VARing.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,
The numbness is normal. It's a protective mechanism. You are still in a state of shock. It's ok to be numb. What's not OK is to stay in a constant state of shock. This will cause you to be paralyzed by your shock and fear of the situation. I understand that right now you are still coping with the initial stages of this mess. You have broken most of the way through the investigation stage and are now in the grief stage. It's ok to grieve. It's normal and it needs to happen. 

That's being said, action is your friend. Inaction leaves you in a state of limbo and only causes more pain. I'll be the first to admit that I will always suggest divorce in the case if infidelity. Yes, I am biased. Even in the case of a remorseful spouse I still suggest divorce. Believe me and the many others who will agree, your wife is not showing any remorse at this point Divorce allows you to properly process your emotions and start over. The reason being is your marriage as you knew it is DEAD! You want so desperately to have what you had before this **** sandwich landed in your lap. That's not possible. You may be able to forgive, but you will never forget, ever! 

Divorce is a process. Even an uncontested divorce in most places takes a year. Not all, but most. Go and talk to a lawyer. Find out exactly where you stand and at least start the process. It can be stopped at any point before the judge signs the final decree. 

This forum is for you to lean on. While we all might have different approaches, but the goal of everyone here is to help you through the process and be a group you can lean on. Lean on us. Use the support group you have. Take what you can and what is useful and leave the rest.

The one common thing I have heard, even from those who have reconciled, it that they waited to long to take action. I acted pretty quickly when my first wife cheated, but I wish I had moved faster. 

Action is your friend.


----------



## manwithnoname

@Scuba_Steve 

You have lots of advice here, most of it is similar in one way or another. I haven't been betrayed by a wife, so my view is just what I would do.

The fairly common denominator is to file for divorce. As a few have said, start it now. It can be stopped at any point. 

This is what I would do immediately. It would also buy you time. Time to keep listening to VARs to gather more info that way. Time to see what she says, and most importantly what she does. This will be invaluable in helping you come to your decision whether to R or follow through with the divorce. At this point, as it has been said dozens of times, she is not one bit remorseful. If she continues with non-remorse after the filing, that would certainly go a long way in showing you that divorce is the right choice.

There is also the possibility with divorce, alimony payments would be different if she were still employed vs if you made her quit or got her fired. 

So even though I have never been in this situation, I've read enough to know that at the very least, filing for divorce is the best single thing you can do at this time. The worst thing you can do is not file for divorce.

Also, DNA the child.


----------



## Marc878

If you're in an at fault state you may have enough evidence to avoid alimony


----------



## Marc878

If it is an at fault state you could have your attorney sequester all email between OM and you're wife. That would seal the deal on him but her too.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
Sorry to hear the sister may have know. It seems your wife 
has a lot of people family and friends around her for support.
Do you have any family and friends for support? I have had many
friends go through this also. A support network is helpful. My sons 
wife cheated on him with and older guy also. The guy she cheated with 
was fat and had to work two jobs to support himself. My son is a college
graduate and works out constantly. He had trouble understanding what she did
also. She is now his ex.

One thing my son did was to get away from his wife for awhile. He came home 
for a week. He did not tell her where he was going just that he needed time to think.
I know seeing her everyday can influence you in many ways. Is there some place you
could go maybe for a weekend? Just go do not answer her texts,or calls. Leave VARS
in place and maybe if she sees that you are willing to walk you might get more information.

You have gotten a lot of information form VARS and advice from here. You have a big decision 
to make about your future I know. Emotions are going crazy my sons did. I am still concerned 
however if she is really who you think she is. Why of all people did she cheat with this man? 
Money and power can attract young women to older men. Older men go after young women for sex.
I think that he cut it off, and that she wanted it to continue. I know you are going through a lot
but maybe she was looking for a longer relationship with him. Maybe she thought he would leave 
his wife for her. i do not know but she is not showing any remorse or regret. 

If she does decide to tell you things remember cheaters lie. Do not let her blame shift this to 
you. She chose to do what she did for what ever reason. She has a toxic friend and if the sister 
knew then it sounds like you are surround by a toxic cesspool of people. Did mom know all so?
What ever happens please take care of yourself FIRST and do not listen to her lies and trickle
truth. My son went through a lot of ups and downs but he is now happier than before. 

PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND REMEMBER IF SHE WAS PLANNING ON 
CONTINUING THE AFFAIR DO NOT SETTLE FOR BEING PLAN B


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Here is something you need to ask your wife, the answer would be all that you need to know. 

If, insert grandpas name, had not ended the affair, would it be continuing today?

Here you are showing her you know, no problem with that, this will make her very nervous that you know this much. Second, if she says she was planning to end it, why? Because grandpas wife found out? OM’s wife isn’t going to cut her funds for living and expose at work, therefore she won’t expose to you either. Now I think the OM’s wife knows of the affair, hence why it ended so quickly. Your wife is protecting OM because his marriage is in the sink or swim stage, it may restart if OMs wife pulls the plug. It’s ironic that your wife is making you plan B when she herself is plan B to OM. The other theory I have is that the CEO found out of the affair. He is protecting the company by telling OM to end it but because that are friends, did not terminate him. A great risk by the CEO, but people have done more stupid moves then this. 

If the CEO knows I find it hard to believe that while taking a risk with not terminating grandpa, he has not transferred or moved your wife away from grandpa. This shows the CEO is either incredibly stupid or OM is a very good friend. If the CEO felt that OM is just too good a friend or a great boss, your wife’s employment could be in jeopardy. Perhaps the CEO and OM are waiting for a period of cool down and then they terminate your wife. She could try to claim sexual harassment but her case would be severely weakened by waiting until AFTER she was terminated. 

This is why I have suggested to you to have your attorney send the CEO a letter exposing the affair. If your state is an at fault state, ask your lawyer if you can also name the company in the legal proceedings. By creating a hostile work environment for you, if the company does nothing to OM or your wife, then you are being harassed. If they terminate both your wife and OM then I would say it’s a victory. Stall your divorce until your wife gets another job. If the divorce proceeds, and you are in an at fault state, ask that any alimony be judged that your wife is only out of a job because she couldn’t keep her legs closed to other men. 

You have power scuba, don’t be afraid to use some or a lot at any time that you feel. The worst thing you can do is nothing, and with how you’ve posted about your wife actions, I’d cut her legs out from under her in a heartbeat. She has zero regret, remorse, or even being a human being at this point, and I’ll even bet that at work she is showing that she is great. Think about that, I’d bet you aren’t showing your great at work, are you? No, you are struggling but she goes around bubbly as ever, knock that ***** down a few steps.


----------



## sa58

I agree with drifting on but there could be other reasons
Is it possible Grandpa has done this before with other women?
Maybe Grandma knows or just does not care as long as she
has money. Maybe Grandpa just got tired of your wife. 
Maybe Grandpa found a replacement?

Scuba I think your first move before anything else is 
A LAWYER


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
I hope you read this and understand!

Lying cheating wife (Hiding phone, condoms etc)
Lying cheating Grandpa (Dirty Old Man)
Toxic lying friend (Who knows what else)
Sister of wife knew about affair (Who knows what else)
CEO (May know)
Mom (May know)
Grandma (Who knows)
Tattoo man (Who Knows)
The above seems like a human cesspool to me,full
of lies , no morals, and values.

Scuba Steve
Loving husband, 
Hard working family man
Values his wife and child
Appears to have a high moral
standard
Intelligent individual
Has not confronted anyone but remained calm

Scuba Steve to me you are stronger and smarter than 
any of these individuals. Do not allow these toxic individuals 
to drag you down or compromise your integrity in anyway
shape or form. Keep your head above the rotten stench 
that they all are wallowing in.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> Going by the way my wife was talking I think she’s as confused as I am.


I’m sure she is. It doesn’t sound like the OM was ever a viable option to run away with.

She planned on growing old with you and the security you provide. 

She never thought she would ever get caught. Certainly not with enough evidence to divorce her and you wouldn’t have that without the VAR. With just the condom she could have gotten away with it just being a ONS.

Now her entire world and future she had planned are in flux. The OM was just a guilty pleasure and meant nothing. In her view why should her life change over something so unimportant?
She wants this to all go away. She doesn’t know the best way to do that. Does she pretend that it wasn’t a big deal or come clean and risk that being the straw that breaks the camel’s back.


----------



## drifting on

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m sure she is. It doesn’t sound like the OM was ever a viable option to run away with.
> 
> She planned on growing old with you and the security you provide.
> 
> She never thought she would ever get caught. Certainly not with enough evidence to divorce her and you wouldn’t have that without the VAR. With just the condom she could have gotten away with it just being a ONS.
> 
> Now her entire world and future she had planned are in flux. The OM was just a guilty pleasure and meant nothing. In her view why should her life change over something so unimportant?
> She wants this to all go away. She doesn’t know the best way to do that. Does she pretend that it wasn’t a big deal or come clean and risk that being the straw that breaks the camel’s back.




Parts of this I think is one hundred percent true, but she got mad when scuba slept in another room. This a the day she got home from her mothers and just admitted to an affair. Won’t tell scuba who it is, how long, only that it is over and she loves her little family. In my opinion she either wanted to hurt scuba very bad or she has resentment that is on steroids. Who would sleep with their spouse after having this bomb dropped on you just a couple hours before bed? I can only say I didn’t rush back into my bedroom. 

Scuba, how much did your wife’s behavior change towards you when the affair started, then ended, and up until she confessed. I can see she is smug and arrogant now, but before you confronted was she acting completely normal?


----------



## Taxman

Scuba
Do nothing right now. Give yourself a few days even a week or two. Question yourself as to where you see yourself in a year, two years and five years. Is she part of this equation? You may not as yet know. You do not know what she is going to do and say right now. This is the time to lay back and see if she is willing to do the hard work. Remember this line: The infidelity is ALL ON HER. SHE IS THE GUILTY PARTY AND YOU ARE THE INJURED PARTY. Therefore, you are as well the judge and jury. What you say, goes. Period. I subscribe to the theory that the wayward party loses say-so. The only say-so they get is if they leave and go to their AP. Then, they can just go to hell.

This can be extremely embarrassing for her. She was banging the old guy. Hmmmm, so she now looks the part of a gold-digger, or total prostitute. This gets out, and every one she knows will be laughing behind her back. That screws them up totally. One client let one of her soon to be ex husband's colleagues know that he was having an affair with a significantly older woman. He had to leave his job, as the rumour got around, and there were jokes at his expense. "Hey, don't let X see a picture of your grandma, it gets him horny." Consequences for her actions my friend. Consequences. Take your time, think about what YOU want. Then put a plan into action.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Taxman said:


> Scuba
> *Do nothing right now.* Give yourself a few days even a week or two. Question yourself as to where you see yourself in a year, two years and five years. Is she part of this equation? You may not as yet know. You do not know what she is going to do and say right now. This is the time to lay back and see if she is willing to do the hard work. Remember this line: The infidelity is ALL ON HER. SHE IS THE GUILTY PARTY AND YOU ARE THE INJURED PARTY. Therefore, you are as well the judge and jury. What you say, goes. Period. I subscribe to the theory that the wayward party loses say-so. The only say-so they get is if they leave and go to their AP. Then, they can just go to hell.
> 
> This can be extremely embarrassing for her. She was banging the old guy. Hmmmm, so she now looks the part of a gold-digger, or total prostitute. This gets out, and every one she knows will be laughing behind her back. That screws them up totally. One client let one of her soon to be ex husband's colleagues know that he was having an affair with a significantly older woman. He had to leave his job, as the rumour got around, and there were jokes at his expense. "Hey, don't let X see a picture of your grandma, it gets him horny." Consequences for her actions my friend. Consequences. Take your time, think about what YOU want. Then put a plan into action.


No. File immediately. Divorce is a process, not an event. Get it started and if she pulls her head out of her ass and becomes someone you can R with you can stop it. If she continues like this you'll be that much ahead. 

There is no bigger wake up call than getting served and exposed. Either way you end up going filing immediately is the way to start.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

OutofRetirement said:


> If my 30-ish brother told me he cheated on his loyal wife to have an ongoing affair with a 60-70-year-old Grandma, I'd have a whole lot of questions. I might actually offer to go with him to get evaluated mentally.
> 
> Didn't your wife's sister didn't question that?
> 
> There are a range of normal responses to any stimuli. And "normal" might be "abnormal." If you hit me over the head with a hammer, and I'm bleeding profusely, that's "normal," but also "abnormal" to a healthy person.
> 
> Steve, I think you should talk to a doctor, at least a therapist. You might be in PTSD or a depression. Both somewhat "normal" given your situation, but also abnormal for a healthy person.


Her sister doesn’t know much about the affair. Judging by the conversation she doesn’t know who the the OM is. I probably know more at this point then she does. I don’t know when she found out about the affair but I don’t blame her for not telling me she knew. She is her sister after all.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> Hard 180. It'll help clear your mind. Your still in shock from getting the truth. You need clarity. Maybe the weekend away to friends, family, etc.
> 
> Your wife isn't confused. Shes trying to figure out how to cover her ass. At your expense. Looking for options which is not a good sign by the way.
> 
> What's her demeanor now? She said anything?




I think she finally starting to realize how much she ****ed up. She’s started begging me to talk to her and she now say She willing to do anything to fix her mistakes. Most the part I’ve been ignoring her.


----------



## Marc878

What's your wife's demeanor? 

At this time you should keep yourself distant from her. If you tell her what you know you'll get nothing but trickle truth and gas lighting.

If you don't your actions will tell her you accept her affair.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I think she finally starting to realize how much she ****ed up. She’s started begging me to talk to her and she now say She willing to do anything to fix her mistakes. Most the part I’ve been ignoring her.


Tell her to write out a time line of the affair(s) naming the OM and to hand over the phone and all passwords to all social media accounts and email. 

She omits anything you know to be false just file. She refuses any of the above just file. When she asks why tell her she is more interested in protecting her affair partner than saving her marriage and that is someone you don't need in your life as a wife.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I think she finally starting to realize how much she ****ed up. *She’s started begging me to talk to her and she now say She willing to do anything to fix her mistakes.* Most the part I’ve been ignoring her.


First of all this wasn't a mistake. It was a planned out, conscious decision on her part to willfully cheat on you.

What you are hearing is her minimizing her part. It's the regret of being caught. They all do this upfront. 

She telling you the full truth? She still talking with her friend (the enemy if your marriage) ?

If you tell her what you know you'll probably get trickle truthing and gaslighting.

Wait and see if she's willing to come clean.


----------



## Marc878

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> *Tell her to write out a time line of the affair(s) naming the OM and to hand over the phone and all passwords to all social media accounts and email.
> 
> She omits anything you know to be false just file. She refuses any of the above just file. When she asks why tell her she is more interested in protecting her affair partner than saving her marriage and that is someone you don't need in your life as a wife*.


Excellent advice !!!!!


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve 
How old is your wife?
How long has she been with the company?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

How would you describe your wife;s
level in the company?

Lower
Middle 
or Upper level

The reason I ask about her age and years with the company
and level is because if you wanted her to have No Contact
with OM, possible new job or new area in the company this might affect her decision.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

One thing that she is struggling with .If she tells you 
who OM is you may tell Grandma, Grandpa is friends with CEO.
CEO may take action against Grandpa and her, Grandma may
divorce Grandpa. ON AND ON IT ROLLS. She created a big pile 
of well you know what. If she does come clean be sure and tell
her the mess she has created as well as betraying you and maybe losing
her little family.


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

Your WW does not get to keep secrets from you anymore, not that she ever should have, her secret second life has to be revealed in it's entirety to you.

Nor does she get to exclude you from her intimacies with the OM

Does your WW really think you can just rugsweep this and grow old together, like 5, 10 or 25 years from now this won't still burn in your heart. 

Under the best of circumstances cheating takes 2 years to start recovering from, and every new revelation starts the clock all over again.

POLYGRAPH, DNA, EXPOSURE, LAWSUIT, STD TESTING

Tamat


----------



## Marc878

Steve,

Her affair is devastating to you right now but make no mistake although it seems like a highly personal tragedy to you and you are correct. It is !!!!

Your wayward wife is a very typical lying, scheming, cheating wife. Nothing special about her or her affair at all. This **** happens all to often. If you see enough cases like most on here have or went through one they all follow a very standard "cheater script".

That's where most of your opinions and advice are coming from. 

A friend of mine looking back said the most hurtful thing to him was that *it was so typical* and his STBXW is nothing special. 

Sorry you're here


----------



## GusPolinski

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Tell her to write out a time line of the affair(s) naming the OM and to hand over the phone and all passwords to all social media accounts and email.
> 
> She omits anything you know to be false just file. She refuses any of the above just file. When she asks why tell her she is more interested in protecting her affair partner than saving her marriage and that is someone you don't need in your life as a wife.


100% correct 

And obviously she’ll need a new job.

And talk to your lawyer (you have one, RIGHT?) to see if a post-nup would be at all worth it.
@Scuba_Steve


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> I think she finally starting to realize how much she ****ed up. She’s started begging me to talk to her and she now say She willing to do anything to fix her mistakes. Most the part I’ve been ignoring her.


She's following the usual pattern. At first they try to ignore or minimize and hope that it goes away. When they find that they might actually get divorce then they face the facts. That's why it's so important to at least make the possibility of divorce a reality and not go straight to R. They need to realize that their behavior put something at risk.


----------



## drifting on

Did anyone else have that stomach drop when you read mistakes, as in plural??


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> I think she finally starting to realize how much she ****ed up. She’s started begging me to talk to her and she now say She willing to do anything to fix her mistakes. Most the part I’ve been ignoring her.


Keep the course. Do not cave in. Don’t be or show weakness.


----------



## sa58

SS 

AS gus posted you have a lawyer right?

If not get one ASAP. With everybody who is involved (CRAP SHE CAUSED)
you really need to know what your legal rights are in NY
Maybe if you tell WW you have an appointment to see your 
lawyer she will really understand your serious.Or just go your choice.
Do not back down stay strong. Remember you know more than what she 
thinks you do.So watch out for trickle truth, blame shifting, and well more 
and more lies.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> 
> How would you describe your wife;s
> level in the company?
> 
> Lower
> Middle
> or Upper level
> 
> The reason I ask about her age and years with the company
> and level is because if you wanted her to have No Contact
> with OM, possible new job or new area in the company this might affect her decision.





sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> 
> One thing that she is struggling with .If she tells you
> who OM is you may tell Grandma, Grandpa is friends with CEO.
> CEO may take action against Grandpa and her, Grandma may
> divorce Grandpa. ON AND ON IT ROLLS. She created a big pile
> of well you know what. If she does come clean be sure and tell
> her the mess she has created as well as betraying you and maybe losing
> her little family.



My wife and are both 32. 

She been a full time employee for about 10 years or so. She started interning since her junior year in college.

Right around mid level. 

I don’t think she protecting the grandpa OM its more her protecting herself. From what would happen if this gets out.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that. 

I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. *Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that. *
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


You are correct. 

However, if you are interested in trying to have her salvage this mess she like many may have no idea what you want or she needs to do. You may have to prompt her. If she continues to lie you'll know it and you have your answer. As long as she doesn't know what you know. That's the key.


----------



## farsidejunky

Probably?

Have the discipline and intentinal fortitude to be who you say...not this "stuff" (or another "S" word) you just posted above.

You know better. If you were really ready to be done, the PI would be called off and you would have filed. That won't change in 3 days.

Your wife already has lost respect for you. Bluffing is not going to help you in any way to rebuild that respect when you clearly want to reconcile.

Lastly...never...ever...ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink.


----------



## Windwalker

32?
Really?

All I can think of right now is the "old balls" scene from Big Daddy. I know that's not helpful, but damn. At 32, you still have an entire life ahead of you. And that life has awesome potential with a much better quality of spouse. 

She's not remorseful. You hit the nail on the head. She's protecting her own ass, but also GRANDPOS in the process.

Stay steady and keep talking to us. Start moving towards some action. You're doing good at this point. Keep it up Steve.


----------



## Sports Fan

Scuba be prepared for the barrage of begging and offers of endless sex on tap that are most likely to be offered up as a resort to get you to rug sweep this. Stay Strong. She needs to come clean, offer up a full timeline and change jobs. Once all those ducks are taken care of expose the old man to the job. Hell just expose the old man to his wife now.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that.
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


Good.
Now hold yourself accountable to that.
Ask us to hold you accountable to it.

You are mostly right about the lies part. Where you're wrong is there is no probably to it, it will be lies.

Absolutely positively do not have sex with her. It can be seen as you accepting what she did to the courts. Besides you need to have an STD test done to make sure she hasn't given you a kiss of death.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that.
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


4/1 is Easter Sunday (and April Fool day). What will be due from you on that date? I assume the soonest you could file would, in fact, be a day later.

If she will do "anything" to save your family, how about identifying the OM(s)? Has your P.I. completed his work? Do you still have VARs in place?

Until you've decided, I think you should continue to listen to what she says to you, even if it is lies.

I sense you no longer love her, and she no longer loves you, and she is just trying to preserve the status quo with you until she can find another OM. This is sad.

Are you worried how this will affect your child?

May God comfort you in this difficult time.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Cheaters almost universally do the least amount they have to. Selfishness is a key attribute. It is uncomfortable to admit wrongdoing. They'll do what they have to. They hope it won't come to that. For example, she could come clean immediately, comfort you immediately, admit wrongdoing completely immediately, etc. She was hoping that it wouldn't come to that, that you'd somehow feel better and let it go.

She could still do all those things right now, come clean, etc. She is still holding out that you might let her slide. When push comes to shove, will she finally offer everything she should have done immediately? More important question, if she does, is that kind of wife you want to go through the rest of your life?

Maybe you thought you had a great wife who would stick through you thick or thin, who would, if she did something so egregious as cheat with a wrinkled old man, she'd immediately fall at your feet and beg for mercy. Well, you might have thought that, or at least, you didn't know. Now you know. That ain't her. She's the type that, if you force her into it, if you don't back down, she'll grudgingly accede to your very reasonable requests. Based on from her battering your feelings.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that.
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm *probably* done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


 @Scuba_Steve, what exactly does probably mean? On April Fools day no less.

You have the advantage by telling her to come clean or we are done. You have to mean it. Probably what? Divorce, rugsweep. What does 'probably' mean? 

If you truly are not interested in what she has to say just file and get a divorce. But...

Your posts tell us otherwise. You want to reconcile and that is understandable. You want her to come forward and admit everything.

She will not 'probably' come forward and admit everything. You can forget about that happening between now and 4/1.

You need to force the issue by acting decisively. 

Sit her down and say if she wishes to remain married to you here are the conditions. 

Tell her to write out a time line of the affair(s) naming the OM and to hand over the phone and all passwords to all social media accounts and email. 

She omits anything you know to be false just file. She refuses any of the above just file. When she asks why tell her she is more interested in protecting her affair partner than saving her marriage and that is someone you don't need in your life as a wife.

And yes, like Gus says she needs to quit her job. 

If you do the above and follow through with actions and not empty words then you will be either on the road to a reconciliation with a wife who truly wants to stay married with you 'and will do whatever it takes'. Or you will see that your wife still lies while 'doing whatever it takes' and you can get her out of your life as a cheating wife and turn her into an cheating exwife. 

One last thing. If you are too scared that your wife will continue to lie and force your hand to divorce her and you waffle well then she has got you by the gonads and then you my friend are in for a lifetime of her cheating.

Your choice. What is it going to be?


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Part of me sits here ticked off that you have me defend your wife. What is she protecting? OM, herself, her employment (possibly), herself, OM, herself, OM, herself. Now this part you need to read and comprehend, she isn’t here, she isn’t seeking answers on some forum. She has gone to a toxic friend and then her sister. Her sister appears to have her head on right by advising to tell all. The toxic one is feeding her crap, telling her to deny until the cows come home. Now you just put her in a position that she has no idea, not one solitary clue, by being forthcoming. 

Your wife on her best day is not going to navigate this with any success alone. Your wife doesn’t know what you want, what you need, and in your own mind you have a date in which she must do this right. There are so many here who will tell you that even the best WS will only understand at best seventy five percent of what they did. Maybe less then five are going to hit in the ninety percent range of really getting what they did. Right now I’d be surprised if your wife could even come near ten percent. Asking the details of the affair you have to understand is going to be a very watered down version of the truth. You ask some questions that you know to be true mixed in with trust but verify questions. 

Do yourself this favor, file ASAP, then judge her actions going forward. Setting a date in your head is foolish, act now, and definitely have her served at work. Your wife knows you very well scuba, and truthfully she knows you won’t do squat. Ironically I’ve asked you to get mad, yet I’m genuinely not trying to make you mad now, but come the first I know you will have an excuse. Scuba you need to be prepared to lose the marriage if you want the marriage. At thirty two and how you are saying you wife’s actions are, divorce would be the best choice. Exposure knowing she’s so scared of her reputation is even better. You could hit her hard, but what is that you have chosen to do? Nothing. Not a damn thing and you know this to be true. Don’t draw in the sand, don’t play brinkmanship, just act with very loud actions. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

@Scuba_Steve : Just sit her down with the call logs and threaten to dial the boss's number when you have the conversation. Tell her the PI figured out who bought the burner. Note length of calls, frequency, time of day etc. She will start talking.


----------



## ABHale

I can understand you not wanting details of the affair. I believe you are finished with her so why give a damn about the details. 

You know she isn’t going to fix anything by 4/1 right. 

See your lawyer and get custody of your child situated before you file for divorce.


----------



## Evinrude58

April fools? Hmmm


----------



## MEM2020

Steve,

Your post below sums up why she doesn’t respect you. 




Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that.
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Do we really know how long this has been going on? She met him when she was 17, right? Was this geezer at your wedding, silently laughing at you? It would at least be interesting to hear how she answers that one.


----------



## Slow Hand

Just how old is this “geezer” anyway? Has OP said?


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for asking her any more info about the affair, I’m not really interested in hearing what she has to say. Mostly because it’s probably more lies. Besides she should be forthcoming with that info on her own, I shouldn’t need to tell her that.
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


I guess we’ll all tune in on April 2nd to see what the new deadline is.


----------



## eric1

Scuba,

Deadlines are great but just understand that stasis is 100000% your greatest enemy.

Even if you have a deadline you should be speaking with lawyers, counselors, financial advisors, etc....

Intertia is very important in terms of getting things done


----------



## manwithnoname

eric1 said:


> Scuba,
> 
> Deadlines are great but just understand that stasis is 100000% your greatest enemy.
> 
> *Even if you have a deadline you should be speaking with lawyers, counselors, financial advisors, etc...*.
> 
> Intertia is very important in terms of getting things done


Scuba, she won't be forthcoming, at all. She's cheated and lied. You don't have any idea how many times and for how long this has been going on. It could still be going on. Doesn't need any communications that can be traced by PI or caught on VAR. Big company, lots of potential OMs.

DNA the kid and at the very least do the bold part above this week to get a start on the inevitable. 

Your inaction shows you are ok with her actions. Her inaction now, shows lack of remorse. She is not R material in my opinion.

Keep your promise and be done on your deadline.


----------



## Chaparral

She’s rattled, keep it up.


----------



## stro

If you have true desire/hope for recovery, which it sounds like you do, you may not get what you need from her for a while yet. This thing just blew up last week. Filing for divorce doesn’t mean you have to follow through. It takes a LONG time in most States. As someone else said, she needs to know she has put something at risk. If she sees that train coming down the tracks and weeks or months down the road she still is not forthcoming/begging for forgiveness then you will know there is no hope for recovery. This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. Be resolute, be decisive, take control.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Deadlines!? Come on Steve, just let her know about her and mention grandpa by name. Tell her grandpas wife confirmed it to you. See how she reacts. There is no need to drag this out. Act now. You appear to have enough evidence to work with.

Next, consider talking to her sister. Tell her you found out as “someone at work” thought you should know. Tell sister it is all over the company about wife and grandpa.this will get back to wife, and most likely she will feel pretty damn uncomfortable in the office. See how much her sister knows. Tell her sister you are getting ready to file for divorce. Secondly, if you know who toxic friend is, pay her a visit. Tell her the same as you told her sister. See what her reaction is.

After talking to her sister and hopefully toxic friend, Sit your wife down and let her know she has one chance to come clean. Look at your watch and tell her she has fifteen seconds to start talking or your marriage is toast. See how she responds. If she starts talking you may be able to salvage your marriage. If she does not start talking and clams up, just tell her in a firm but calm manner “Wife, I see grandpa is more important than our marriage, if you need to communicate with me from this point on, do so through my attorney. We are over.”then hand her your attorney’s business card. Next ask her to go stay with her parents or sister, anywhere but your home.

At this point you need to start the 180. I see no remorse in your posts about wife. She is still in the fog and la la land. Knock her out of it.
Having her served would be a great start.


----------



## Edmund

Folks, they have a two year old child.

Scuba, if she wants to talk, let her talk. You want her to name the OM(s). But even if she doesn’t, you really need to know why this happened. Could she really have feelings for the old guy? Or was she coerced? Did she have an indiscretion with her boss, which he reported to “grandpa” and then the old guy says you are fired and your reputation ruined if you don’t do the same with me? When grandpa broke it off in Feb, did he threaten her career if she ever named him?

Not saying what she did was right. Just saying you might want to fight this battle alongside her first, and then decide how to go forward with your daughters best interest being considered.


----------



## Suspicious1

Me I need any detail as fule to spring me away as far and detached from her.

That's just me, I wouldn't be able to look at her just the thought she let someone inside her and god knows what she's done with the Old Man. I couldn't watch her hold or kissing my little girl knowing god knows what O.M

It would hurt as hell, I can not stay with someone that disrespects our family so easily. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and are both 32.
> 
> She been a full time employee for about 10 years or so. She started interning since her junior year in college.
> 
> Right around mid level.
> 
> I don’t think she protecting the grandpa OM its more her protecting herself. *From what would happen if this gets out.*


I'm confused. So in your company the lower level employee gets in more trouble than the boss or supervisor? Usually the person that has and is trusted with more power is held to a high standard. There is the general concept that if there is a large difference in power then the sex isn't consensual. i.e. rape.

"If you want to keep your job or get a promotion you'll have sex with me."

It doesn't even have to be said out loud. It can just be implied.

THE OM IS IN HEAP BIG DO DO. YOU HAVE HIM BY THE BALLS. ALL HE CAN DO IS SAY IT NEVER HAPPENED. I"M SURE YOUR WIFE CAN PROVE THAT IT DID.

Having sex with a young mother with a two year old will not go over very well in the company. That they know her young husband will make it even worse. If you get a divorce he will be a home wreaker of this lovely young couple with a baby.

Your wife is telling the OM that he has nothing to worry about. She has you well under control and you have no idea who the AP was.

Want to make the OM $hit himself? For fun just walk by him at work. Give him a big grin for a few seconds and then say hi. It would be interesting what you would then hear on your VAR.


----------



## skerzoid

April Fools Day - Is the joke on her or on us?

1. So far you have been given excellent advice from all over the spectrum.

2. People take time out of their day to try and help you recover from life's worst pain.

3. You give us a minimum of feed back.

4. For myself, I asked you to be decisive, courageous, and strong.
a. So far, indecisive. This indicates fear to act. Giving her a deadline gives her time.
b. Strong, somewhat as you have been in minimum contact with her.
c. Courageous. You did confront which showed courage, but you have to have courage to act, question, and hold her accountable.

5. I hope the best for you. This is a complicated mess. Don't complicate it further by ignoring the actions you need to take.


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## Evinrude58

There is zero reason not to have already filed.

If OP wants full disclosure, that’s the only way to get it.
If he wants to screw up his wife’s world and cause her a little anxiety in her life like she has done in his, which may actually result in a little self reflection on his wofe’s Part, that’s the way to do it.

If he wants to f up grandpa’s world like he should, he should make his wife file sexual herrassment charges with the company and name grandpa as the harasser. And he personally should call grandpas wife, although she likely knows all about his philandering.

The first step toward divorce OR reconciliation is to file for divorce. She will never take OP seriously if he dries his wife’s tears and never at least make her think he wants to divorce.

And let’s face it, if OP files and it gets her mad and she doesn’t try to straighten up and beg for her husband not ta divorce her after she cheated, OP is better off suffering through the divorce and moving on.

There is no way you shouldn’t file OP. It should have already been done. It can be stopped with a phone call.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

What ever you do consider the following:
If you want her to have no contact with Grandpa this might be
hard because she has 10yr+ (Junior internship) with the company.
She is also 32yo and mid level. She may not want to start over again.
32 is not old but she will probably fight you over quitting her job.

Why according to your OP did she talk so much about her boss?
Only him and his personal life and his hidden tattoos. When she saw it 
bothered you she stopped suddenly talking about him. WHY?
What if anything happened between them. May be May be not.

She has not been remorseful at all and is trying to cover everything up.
She may be trying to protect herself or someone else. There may be more 
information on her phone than she wants you to know. What her sister knew or knows
may be hard to find out because blood is thicker than water. They are family.
Her toxic friends part in this is still unclear also. How long this has been going on
you have no way of knowing. The way she has acted so far you never will.

I have posted before on this thread I do not understand how or why she cheated 
with Grandpa. You have described him as someone who makes a lot of $$$$ but nobody 
likes him. He is also friends with the CEO, and I guess around 55 or older. How high up 
(level) is Grandpa. I have reread your OP and I think the affair may have ended the night
you said she came home in a bad mood. You said you tried to hug her and she said
" I only wanted sex from her" Then she stormed out of the house for 2 hours.
I do not think she is who you think she is. I think she was more involved with Grandpa 
than just some fun. I think she was in the affair fog and thought she meant more to him
than just sex. I think she realized this and then for what ever reason the affair stopped.

I wonder what type of relationship she was planning with Grandpa. I think that
he just wanted sex with someone younger and she well got used. She now knows 
this and has come crawling back to you. She has her tiny little family and just wants 
this to go away.Rug sweeping the whole thing. She should have been forthcoming 
when you discovered the condoms but still tries to deny. She will try and trickle truth
everything. 

Have you gotten a lawyer yet? Have you thought about counseling for yourself
since she created a big mess and now you and her have to fix it. Only if she is willing!!
I think you need a very good lawyer what ever you do. Has she been at the company 
longer than you? If so since junior internship she has a lot of friends and connections.

Please take care of yourself and your child. She did this and what ever fate, karma or
what ever happens to her is her doing and her doing alone. You have done nothing to deserve
this. Reread the other posters comments and decide. If you set a deadline stick to it.
Do not be plan B
GOD SPEED AND GOD BLESS.


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> Folks, they have a two year old child.
> 
> Scuba, if she wants to talk, let her talk. You want her to name the OM(s). But even if she doesn’t, you really need to know why this happened. Could she really have feelings for the old guy? Or was she coerced? Did she have an indiscretion with her boss, which he reported to “grandpa” and then the old guy says you are fired and your reputation ruined if you don’t do the same with me? When grandpa broke it off in Feb, did he threaten her career if she ever named him?
> 
> Not saying what she did was right. Just saying you might want to fight this battle alongside her first, and then decide how to go forward with your daughters best interest being considered.


This type of advice is what I don't understand. I am actually trying to form my thoughts on a thread dealing with this type of reasoning. 

And to you Edmund, I mean absolutely no offense, but could you give a blurb about your back ground. 

So Steve, and others like him, why would you consider giving her anymore time at all. And for everyone that thinks because you have children, you "HAVE" to try and reconcile, that is just bunk. This child would be better off with her dad if possible than with a mother of such low moral character. She would def be better of with maybe 2 happy parents than 2 miserable parents.

You see Steve, and other men, by even entertaining thoughts of taking her back, especially before she is remotely remorseful, that is just a weak beta behavior. That type of behavior is what causes many women to lose attraction for their husbands in the first place. 

Oh, they want the safe "Nice" guy, good earner, great dad,... they want that guy to marry and have kids with, but they want to F*** the bad boy alpha male of any age. And don't read any nonsense about the alpha beta thing into this. Women want strong men, call it what you will. 

So, Steve, by even waiting this long to file, not making her quit her job, not having her admit the OM(s) name(s), and not exposing her and at least her current OM to his wife and the company... all of those are weak moves. All of that makes you less attractive and powerful.

If you are going to wait till 4/1, OK I guess, but when that day comes you need to blow this things up like an atom bomb, and don't look back. 

And regardless of what others may say, those couples where the wife cheated and they actually had a successful R, are really few and far between. 

The few of these cases where they actually were successful seem to be where the Man files for D immediately and then the wife, wakes up and proves herself to her EX H, over and over and over again. Then he might, probably not, but might take her back. 

Steve in your situation, your hopefully STBXW has shown and done absolutely NONE of these things. 

You really need to think about where you are heading...


----------



## ButtPunch

BluesPower said:


> This type of advice is what I don't understand. I am actually trying to form my thoughts on a thread dealing with this type of reasoning.
> 
> And to you Edmund, I mean absolutely no offense, but could you give a blurb about your back ground.
> 
> So Steve, and others like him, why would you consider giving her anymore time at all. And for everyone that thinks because you have children, you "HAVE" to try and reconcile, that is just bunk. This child would be better off with her dad if possible than with a mother of such low moral character. She would def be better of with maybe 2 happy parents than 2 miserable parents.
> 
> You see Steve, and other men, by even entertaining thoughts of taking her back, especially before she is remotely remorseful, that is just a weak beta behavior. That type of behavior is what causes many women to lose attraction for their husbands in the first place.
> 
> Oh, they want the safe "Nice" guy, good earner, great dad,... they want that guy to marry and have kids with, but they want to F*** the bad boy alpha male of any age. And don't read any nonsense about the alpha beta thing into this. Women want strong men, call it what you will.
> 
> So, Steve, by even waiting this long to file, not making her quit her job, not having her admit the OM(s) name(s), and not exposing her and at least her current OM to his wife and the company... all of those are weak moves. All of that makes you less attractive and powerful.
> 
> If you are going to wait till 4/1, OK I guess, but when that day comes you need to blow this things up like an atom bomb, and don't look back.
> 
> And regardless of what others may say, those couples where the wife cheated and they actually had a successful R, are really few and far between.
> 
> The few of these cases where they actually were successful seem to be where the Man files for D immediately and then the wife, wakes up and proves herself to her EX H, over and over and over again. Then he might, probably not, but might take her back.
> 
> Steve in your situation, your hopefully STBXW has shown and done absolutely NONE of these things.
> 
> You really need to think about where you are heading...


QFT!


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I think he's giving her until 4/1 to figure out how to do the right thing on her own. I can see how that would count for a lot more than a forced confession and apologies given under duress. My guess is she'll continue avoiding the matter and thereby seal her own fate.


----------



## manwithnoname

Evinrude58 said:


> There is zero reason not to have already filed.
> 
> If OP wants full disclosure, that’s the only way to get it.
> If he wants to screw up his wife’s world and cause her a little anxiety in her life like she has done in his, which may actually result in a little self reflection on his wofe’s Part, that’s the way to do it.
> 
> If he wants to f up grandpa’s world like he should, he should make his wife file sexual herrassment charges with the company and name grandpa as the harasser. And he personally should call grandpas wife, although she likely knows all about his philandering.
> 
> The first step toward divorce OR reconciliation is to file for divorce. She will never take OP seriously if he dries his wife’s tears and never at least make her think he wants to divorce.
> 
> *And let’s face it, if OP files and it gets her mad and she doesn’t try to straighten up and beg for her husband not ta divorce her after she cheated, OP is better off suffering through the divorce and moving on.
> *
> There is no way you shouldn’t file OP. It should have already been done. It can be stopped with a phone call.


It's too bad that many fear this scenario. Best way to know if R has any chance of working. That is, if R is even on the table.


----------



## manwithnoname

Tatsuhiko said:


> I think he's giving her until 4/1 to figure out how to do the right thing on her own. I can see how that would count for a lot more than a forced confession and apologies given under duress. My guess is she'll continue avoiding the matter and thereby seal her own fate.


Yes, she sees him doing nothing, and she has decided to do nothing and hope with time he will settle back into whatever she sees his role as.


----------



## bandit.45

Scuba_Steve are you wanting us to help you? 

Let me explain now this social media stuff works...

If you cannot talk to us during work hours, no problem. After work, send us a post telling us the progress of what has been going on. Every day you give us an update telling us how she is acting, what she says, and then you ask us questions. We take that data you provide and we give you opinions. Then you respond with more questions, and we give you more answers... and it kind of goes back and forth like that. 

So far we have had to squeeze you for information. This isn't how it works. Either participate in the thread you started or maybe think about bailing because this isn't working.


----------



## oldtruck

Setting an arbitrary date is pointless. The WW as all of them always try to admit to
nothing. You want her to do x,y, and z, you have to tell her. Hold her accountable.
If you will not do this work then just file now and have her served ASAP. Work out
separation and division of property and financials, and tell her ciao.


----------



## manwithnoname

What @Scuba_Steve does not want to believe is that filing for divorce will then possibly cause her to come forward with remorse etc. things he wants her to do now when there are no consequences implied. 

Steve, this is beating a dead horse, but:

She won't do or say anything you want her to do or say by your deadline. So you are done. File now. If she continues to do and say nothing, you have your answer that you are doing the right thing for you.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> I don’t think she protecting the grandpa OM its more her protecting herself. *From what would happen if this gets out.*
> 
> I've given myself a due date if she hasn't done something by April 1st then I'm probably done. That's my due date I've given myself 4/1 and not a day later.


I think I see what’s going on. People send a lot of their time at work and coworkers become part of your social circle. In your case everyone knows the people involved in the affair and you. Your wife has been there a decade and you’re forced to see them every weekday.

You will be embarrassed if your friends and coworkers know that your wife had sex with grandpa. 

Rest assured they will not think that it’s because grandpa is better looking or better in bed that you. They will think the obvious. That he had more power and money than you.
By the way, he should have more money and power than you because he’s significantly older than you. They will think that he used his money and power to seduce her or that she would do anything for a promotion. Either way you come out clean and can hold your head up.


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> This type of advice is what I don't understand. I am actually trying to form my thoughts on a thread dealing with this type of reasoning.
> 
> And to you Edmund, I mean absolutely no offense, but could you give a blurb about your back ground.


Thanks for the comment, Blues. I rarely post, but when I do, it is because I think the OP is being overwhelmed with the divorce chorus calling him weak, indecisive, beta, blah blah blah if he doesn't do what they say immediately. I try to present an alternative view, in a polite, gentle and respectful way, to the conventional wisdom OPs receive here. I understand that the majority of regular vets on here have been through hell, infidelity, divorce, and will have an anger about it that lasts a lifetime. I believe they are well-intentioned, trying to prevent another person from making the mistakes they made. Some however, I think are living vicariously through the OP's situation and hoping to strike another rightious blow in their own struggle that apparently ended badly years before.

But I also think a variety of opinion is more valuable than a monolithic view delivered with 2x4s. I think the betrayed OP is suffering enough without being insulted by internet strangers.

I also hesitate to post on a lot of these stories because I think on internet forums like this, at least 1/3 of the threads are fake stories, and the OPs are just trying to see how much commentary they can stir up. I think Donsie's thread might be like this because he managed to go from D-Day to divorced and moving on in about a week - impossible in most states. But I prefer to initially give everyone benefit of doubt.

Now in regard to Scuba_Steve's case. It is a common situation but still unusual in a few ways. First the age difference... does that make sense? There is no possibility for wife to leave and build a life with an old fossil. If that makes sense I should start looking around for a 35 year old woman to have an affair with (not really). The only indication that she may have had an infatuation, love, NRE type thing is her Victoria Secret purchase. I think she may have made the initial mistake, but could now be being coerced given the power the bosses have over her career and Scuba's career. Maybe not, but it should be considered.

Most commentary here says that Scuba's wife is not remorseful. I see nothing definitive in Scuba's posts to base that solid conclusion on. It is true that Scuba does not provide a lot of information (and maybe he is wise to do that). He quotes her as desperate to talk about it and, will do anything to make amends. Yet he continues the 180. He'll never find out the full truth without hearing her explanation, even if it is lies, getting a time-line, as well as the information he is getting from other sources.

Wife says the affair is over, and phone records, the incident with "you only want sex" (break-up day, she was dumped, the 2 hours was to communicate with OM) seem to confirm this. But her data use went up and she has snapchat on her telephone. There is a lot that we, and maybe Scuba does not know yet.

As for me, I am mid 60's, married four decades, have an intellectually diasabled adopted son living in a group home. No cheating in our marriage. Both retired, comfortable financially. Age and stress however has taken toll and both our health situation has resulted in failed intimacy. I have been searching the internet for alternative medicine remedies for my low-T problem (having tried many of the traditional medicine solutions without success) and I came here by accident. Kind of got hooked on reading it, but probably have learned all I am going to. I post only to try to help people. I don't pile on and repeat opinions that have already been expressed. I hate to see peoples marriages break up, in most cases, and I particularly hate to see the effect on the children. I figure the adults can go on with their lives, but the children are innocent and should not have to suffer because parents are selfish. This is all I'm ever going to say about me. If you see my posts and say I'm an idiot or whatever, fine, no offense taken. We can just agree to disagree.


----------



## sa58

I do not think she will show much remorse even if he files.
Their coworkers probably already know since toxic coworker knows.
Office gossip like this normally spreads like wildfire. Everybody knows
but nobody tells the husband or wife who is being cheated on.

Steve if you are afraid of living with out her, my son has joint custody
and dates better looking women than his ex. His ex is lonely and has not 
had a meaningful relationship in years. (KARMA) Is it better for you and your child 
to stay in a possible toxic, cheating, family.


----------



## Windwalker

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Deadlines!? Come on Steve, just let her know about her and mention grandpa by name. Tell her grandpas wife confirmed it to you. See how she reacts. There is no need to drag this out. Act now. You appear to have enough evidence to work with.
> 
> Next, consider talking to her sister. Tell her you found out as “someone at work” thought you should know. Tell sister it is all over the company about wife and grandpa.this will get back to wife, and most likely she will feel pretty damn uncomfortable in the office. See how much her sister knows. Tell her sister you are getting ready to file for divorce. Secondly, if you know who toxic friend is, pay her a visit. Tell her the same as you told her sister. See what her reaction is.
> 
> After talking to her sister and hopefully toxic friend, Sit your wife down and let her know she has one chance to come clean. Look at your watch and tell her she has fifteen seconds to start talking or your marriage is toast. See how she responds. If she starts talking you may be able to salvage your marriage. If she does not start talking and clams up, just tell her in a firm but calm manner “Wife, I see grandpa is more important than our marriage, if you need to communicate with me from this point on, do so through my attorney. We are over.”then hand her your attorney’s business card. Next ask her to go stay with her parents or sister, anywhere but your home.
> 
> At this point you need to start the 180. I see no remorse in your posts about wife. She is still in the fog and la la land. Knock her out of it.
> Having her served would be a great start.


Damn right brother.

Steve, The Sarge is completely correct.


----------



## badmemory

Edmund said:


> I understand that the majority of regular vets on here have been through hell, infidelity, *divorce*, and will have an anger about it that lasts a lifetime. I believe they are well-intentioned, trying to prevent another person from making the mistakes they made. Some however, I think are living vicariously through the OP's situation and hoping to strike another rightious blow in their own struggle that apparently ended badly years before.


Edmund, I appreciate and respect your point of view, but I think you underestimate the number of BS posters that have R'd rather than divorced. As one myself, I am a believer that the "assertive and decisive" approach that I and many of the vets espouse will give the BS the best chance to have a successful R, if there is to be one. But more importantly, a successful outcome; whether that be R or D.

Having said that, I do agree with you that Scuba should give his wife a chance to talk to him. And in that conversation, he should find out if she's willing to truthfully answer all his questions - so he can decide if there is a basis to "consider" R or proceed with D.


----------



## manwithnoname

sa58 said:


> I do not think she will show much remorse even if he files.
> Their coworkers probably already know since *toxic coworker* knows.
> Office gossip like this normally spreads like wildfire. Everybody knows
> but nobody tells the husband or wife who is being cheated on.
> 
> Steve if you are afraid of living with out her, my son has joint custody
> and dates better looking women than his ex. His ex is lonely and has not
> had a meaningful relationship in years. (KARMA) Is it better for you and your child
> to stay in a possible toxic, cheating, family.



The toxic "friend" OP spoke about is not confirmed to be a coworker. And your previous post assumed Grandpa had the tattoos. I think it was another coworker "boss" of hers who had the tattoos that are in an unseen location that she apparently saw or somehow found out about.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@BluesPower ,
Do you post on LS frequently?


----------



## Evinrude58

Personally, I am remarried. I went through what SS is going through. I made the same mistakes he is, not being decisive. I was weak, broken at the knees, and showed it.

I wish I had stood strong and immediately filed. I wish I had not shown weakness and had not begged and pleaded, although my ex lied to me for two months with the ILYBINILWY speech, until I found the truth on my own.
I think if I had shown her the door when all of it started, I would have succeeded in two things: 
Kept my dignity by not making a baby of myself.
Possibly had a chance at reconciliation if I had still wanted it a year down the road.

I truly believe the most effective way to get a positive result is by filing and never showing weakness. So that is my advice.


----------



## ButtPunch

badmemory said:


> Edmund, I appreciate and respect your point of view, but I think you underestimate the number of BS posters that have R'd rather than divorced. As one myself, I am a believer that the "assertive and decisive" approach that I and many of the vets espouse will give the BS the best chance to have a successful R, if there is to be one. But more importantly, a successful outcome; whether that be R or D.
> 
> Having said that, I do agree with you that Scuba should give his wife a chance to talk to him. And in that conversation, he should find out if she's willing to truthfully answer all his questions - so he can decide if there is a basis to "consider" R or proceed with D.


I am reconciled for six years now. 

Don't lump me in the divorce chorus Edmund.

However, strength is his best option divorce or reconciliation


----------



## Taxman

Scuba_Steve said:


> I don’t think she protecting the grandpa OM its more her protecting herself. From what would happen if this gets out.


Sir, this is where you get anything you want out of her. She is so busy covering her arse that if the truth were to come out, it would totally ruin her, or make her world intensely uncomfortable. In this way, you can get very favorable terms in your impending divorce. I know it sounds as if you are an extortionist, however, you are in the driver's seat, and can dictate your terms. If you want R, then you can literally demand that she pushes a peanut with her nose, totally naked, up the main street of your town. Since she gave you months of discomfort and pain, I suggest that turn about is fair play, make her world intensely uncomfortable. Then after your terms are met, f*ck her over and go public. I am a major prick, but, you are the injured party. Make other people just as injured.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Steve, does she still sleep with her phone under the pillow?


----------



## Cynthia

Edmund said:


> Age and stress however has taken toll and both our health situation has resulted in failed intimacy. I have been searching the internet for alternative medicine remedies for my low-T problem (having tried many of the traditional medicine solutions without success) and I came here by accident.


One of the main pieces of advice that is given here for men who are in unhappy marriages, getting divorced, or not having the sex they want is to get in shape. This is good advice for many reasons, but it literally impacts hormones to eat properly, get enough exercise, and get some sunshine. This can have a profound impact on all areas of life.

There are two main controllable ways to increase testosterone. Stop eating so many carbohydrates, particularly in the form of refined sugar, grains, and processed foods. Get enough exercise. Add to that; eat a ton of vegetables from three categories daily and get your gut healthy. Those things will make a huge difference in muscle mass, hormonal health, and overall health.

A fit, healthy body is more attractive. Balanced hormones and feeling good physically impact the ability to think clearly and make good decisions. Combined with a good attitude, this can dramatically improve relationships as well.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

bandit.45 said:


> Scuba_Steve are you wanting us to help you?
> 
> Let me explain now this social media stuff works...
> 
> If you cannot talk to us during work hours, no problem. After work, send us a post telling us the progress of what has been going on. Every day you give us an update telling us how she is acting, what she says, and then you ask us questions. We take that data you provide and we give you opinions. Then you respond with more questions, and we give you more answers... and it kind of goes back and forth like that.
> 
> So far we have had to squeeze you for information. This isn't how it works. Either participate in the thread you started or maybe think about bailing because this isn't working.


I thought that's what I have been doing. I've given you guys updates as they happen.Nothing has really happened in last couple of days. Plus the last couple of days I have been trying to catch up on some work. Her affair has had a negative effect on my work performance. So haven't had the time to post as much. I try to answer all questions the other posters ask.


----------



## bandit.45

Scuba_Steve said:


> I thought that's what I have been doing. I've given you guys updates as they happen.Nothing has really happened in last couple of days. Plus the last couple of days I have been trying to catch up on some work. Her affair has had a negative effects on my work performance. So had the time to post as much. I try to answer all questions the other posters


Look I'm not trying to beat you up, and I know you're still in shock, but throw us some bigger bones here.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Graywolf2 said:


> I think I see what’s going on. People send a lot of their time at work and coworkers become part of your social circle. In your case everyone knows the people involved in the affair and you. Your wife has been there a decade and you’re forced to see them every weekday.
> 
> You will be embarrassed if your friends and coworkers know that your wife had sex with grandpa.
> 
> Rest assured they will not think that it’s because grandpa is better looking or better in bed that you. They will think the obvious. That he had more power and money than you.
> By the way, he should have more money and power than you because he’s significantly older than you. They will think that he used his money and power to seduce her or that she would do anything for a promotion. Either way you come out clean and can hold your head up.


Yes and no. I won’t lie have people know my wife cheated is embarrassing and emasculating. 

However we flip this my wife’s career is over. The chance of her ever moving up in the company are done. If the affair comes out my wife is the one that comes out looking the worst. Her whole reputation and credibility is thrown into question. And knowing my wife that does scare her she always been career driven. She needs this job way more then I need mine.


----------



## Primrose

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes and no. I won’t lie have people know my wife cheated is embarrassing and emasculating.
> 
> However we flip this my wife’s career is over. The chance of her ever moving up in the company are done. If the affair comes out my wife is the one that comes out looking the worst. Her whole reputation and credibility is thrown into question. And knowing my wife that does scare her she always been career driven. She needs this job way more then I need mine.


Her reputation and credibility SHOULD be thrown into question.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

manwithnoname said:


> Yes, she sees him doing nothing, and she has decided to do nothing and hope with time he will settle back into whatever she sees his role as.



If my wife needs me to show her how much she ****ed up. That leaves me feeling like reconciliation is pointless with her. If you ask me I'm doing more then enough by letting her show me maybe we can save is. Some guys wouldn't even do that they would just leave.


----------



## badmemory

Scuba_Steve said:


> If my wife needs me to show her how much she ****ed up. That leaves me feeling like reconciliation is pointless with her. If you ask me I'm doing more then enough by letting her show me maybe we can save is. Some guys wouldn't even do that they would just leave.


It's not not about showing her how much she ****ed up, it's about her owing what she did, demonstrating remorse and accepting the consequences. That has to happen before you even consider R.

You're letting her show you? Fine, what is she showing? What is she demonstrating? Until she totally comes clean, it's all just window dressing.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Please just read the different points of view here 
and the advice that different people give you.
Take what ever advice and apply it and only if you
want to. We are talking about your life so the decisions 
are yours to make. TAM is just to share different opinions 
with you. If you want to try reconciliation, or divorce 
it comes down to you. Some of us can be blunt at times 
including myself. PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF 
FIRST OK?


----------



## BluesPower

*Good response and measured...*



Edmund said:


> Thanks for the comment, Blues. I rarely post, but when I do, it is because I think the OP is being overwhelmed with the divorce chorus calling him weak, indecisive, beta, blah blah blah if he doesn't do what they say immediately. I try to present an alternative view, in a polite, gentle and respectful way, to the conventional wisdom OPs receive here. * I understand that the majority of regular vets on here have been through hell, infidelity, divorce, and will have an anger about it that lasts a lifetime. I believe they are well-intentioned, trying to prevent another person from making the mistakes they made. Some however, I think are living vicariously through the OP's situation and hoping to strike another rightious blow in their own struggle that apparently ended badly years before.*
> .
> .
> .
> 
> But I also think a variety of opinion is more valuable than a monolithic view delivered with 2x4s. I think the betrayed OP is suffering enough without being insulted by internet strangers.
> .
> .
> .
> Now in regard to Scuba_Steve's case. It is a common situation but still unusual in a few ways. First the age difference... does that make sense? There is no possibility for wife to leave and build a life with an old fossil. If that makes sense I should start looking around for a 35 year old woman to have an affair with (not really). The only indication that she may have had an infatuation, love, NRE type thing is her Victoria Secret purchase. I think she may have made the initial mistake, but could now be being coerced given the power the bosses have over her career and Scuba's career. Maybe not, but it should be considered.
> 
> *Most commentary here says that Scuba's wife is not remorseful.* I see nothing definitive in Scuba's posts to base that solid conclusion on. It is true that Scuba does not provide a lot of information (and maybe he is wise to do that). He quotes her as desperate to talk about it and, will do anything to make amends. Yet he continues the 180. He'll never find out the full truth without hearing her explanation, even if it is lies, getting a time-line, as well as the information he is getting from other sources.
> .
> .
> .
> Wife says the affair is over, and phone records, the incident with "you only want sex" (break-up day, she was dumped, the 2 hours was to communicate with OM) seem to confirm this. But her data use went up and she has snapchat on her telephone. There is a lot that we, and maybe Scuba does not know yet.
> .
> .
> .
> * No cheating in our marriage.*


Well thank you for your response. There are a couple of things that I do want to clear up, not only for you but for others that think about some of these things the same way. 

So the first* BOLD *of your post, what you have to understand is that people like me, mostly men but some women, that do have experience with this stuff, and we are not actually being harsh. What we are doing is actually doling out wisdom. Yes we have lived it, yes we have studied it, and as tough as some of this is, experience informs us that this is truly the only way to handle it. I understand that it sounds dogmatic, but truth is truth. 

We are not trying to exact revenge on the internet, it is just the way that it is. Some men are so weak, so in shock and so broken that they actually ruin any chance of getting the relationship back of track. IF, big IF, that is actually what they want. The thing to understand about infidelity is that it is actually war. War to keep your marriage, if you even want it, war to reclaim your manhood, war to reclaim your life, or make a new one. And in war, there is no room for sentimentality, none. It has to be a cage match, winner take all, scorched earth policy. 

That is the only way that a MAN can reclaim his life. It just is. 

On the second *BOLD*, yeah, it would be nice if it worked this way but it does not, never has, never will. She did what she did, she has been doing it, she has ZERO respect or love for Steve. Like I said, he was safe, he was "Nice", he treated her well, but she is a selfish POS that deserves what is coming. 

Steve has been made a **** through no doing of his own, she did that. She knew what she was doing. What, where, when and with whom, demonstrate with out a doubt the she has no love for her husband. 

Next the third *BOLD*, You can tell she is not remorseful for several reasons. It is always the same BTW. She still works with him. If there is contact of any kind, the affair continues. It does not even matter that they had a spat, it happens all of the time. The affair continues...

If she was remorseful, and if she loved her husband, she would have reported OM to HR and filed a complaint. This is what a remorseful wife would do. She would have asked for a transfer yesterday, or quite and filed a harassment lawsuit. 

If she was remorseful in anyway, she would come clean to Steve about everything, including the other men she has slept with. She would tell him his name, she would inform his wife. She would be on her knees. She is actually one of the most unremorseful WW's in recent memory for me, but I could have missed some on one of the boards. 

So, in conclusion, while I appreciate your opinion and clear measured response, I think that because you actually, I am assuming, have a great wife, and no experience with infidelity... It can be hard to understand what someone like Steve is going through and even harder to help him GET OUT OF INFIDELITY.

What Steve needs to do is blow up this situation and take no prisoners. To hell with her career, or anyone else's. 

I do thank you for answering, it really helps me understand others mindsets...


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes and no. I won’t lie have people know my wife cheated is embarrassing and emasculating.
> 
> However we flip this my wife’s career is over. The chance of her ever moving up in the company are done. If the affair comes out my wife is the one that comes out looking the worst. Her whole reputation and credibility is thrown into question. And knowing my wife that does scare her she always been career driven. She needs this job way more then I need mine.


Then why don’t you try and find another job and divorce your wife?

Some people definitely know your wife has been screwing around with upper management. I also believe it wasn’t just the old man. She was in touch with several of the upper managers, was she the one they all took on the few trips a year they went on?


----------



## manwithnoname

Scuba_Steve said:


> If my wife needs me to show her how much she ****ed up. That leaves me feeling like reconciliation is pointless with her. If you ask me I'm doing more then enough by letting her show me maybe we can save is. Some guys wouldn't even do that they would just leave.


She doesn't need you to show her how much she ****ed up. She needs you to show her that it is unacceptable to just go on as if everything is fine, just because the affair is "over". If that is enough for you, then that is fine, your decision. If she still guards her phone, goes out with "the girls", possibly still has a burner phone (did you find one?) etc. then she's not showing you she is committed to reconciliation. Complete transparency is one of the musts. There are other requirements that have been mentioned by other posters.

If she does not show you (on her own) what you want by your deadline, what is your next step?


----------



## Windwalker

Edmund said:


> Thanks for the comment, Blues. I rarely post, but when I do, it is because I think the OP is being overwhelmed with the divorce chorus calling him weak, indecisive, beta, blah blah blah if he doesn't do what they say immediately.
> 
> Not at all. I do believe that most folks urge the man to take action. This is based on the fact that indecisiveness leaves a betrayed in limbo rather than moving out of infidelity. Make no mistake, when infidelity happens the overwhelming feeling in every betrayed is that "I don't want to deal with **** sandwich."
> 
> 
> I try to present an alternative view, in a polite, gentle and respectful way, to the conventional wisdom OPs receive here. I understand that the majority of regular vets on here have been through hell, infidelity, divorce, and will have an anger about it that lasts a lifetime. I believe they are well-intentioned, trying to prevent another person from making the mistakes they made. Some however, I think are living vicariously through the OP's situation and hoping to strike another rightious blow in their own struggle that apparently ended badly years before.
> 
> The rare few that still harbor rage and anger vicariously through a poster are blatantly obvious. The regulars here know who they are as their posts speak volumes.
> 
> But I also think a variety of opinion is more valuable than a monolithic view delivered with 2x4s. I think the betrayed OP is suffering enough without being insulted by internet strangers.
> 
> It has absolutely nothing to do with insulting the various OP's that come here. It has to do with the encyclopedia of knowledge that this sub-forum has regarding infidelity and the outcomes of said infidelity. There is a very clear script that is almost always followed. Granted, that script may not always follow traditional forms, but the cases presented here almost always show a large percentage of the script. Hence, why it's called the cheaters script. What you may call insults many of us call 2x4s of truth. The truth is not always gentle nor is it kind
> 
> I also hesitate to post on a lot of these stories because I think on internet forums like this, at least 1/3 of the threads are fake stories, and the OPs are just trying to see how much commentary they can stir up. I think Donsie's thread might be like this because he managed to go from D-Day to divorced and moving on in about a week - impossible in most states. But I prefer to initially give everyone benefit of doubt.
> 
> Really? Well that blows my mind. I mean he explicitly stated that once he got the signed divorce papers back to his attorney that it would be another 2 months before the decree would be complete. States like Nevada allow an uncontested divorce to be completed in 6 weeks. Now that may not be the case in the state you like in, but there are places that an uncontested divorce can move very quickly. Not to mention the fact that he never said he was divorced. Now he might be moving on, but at the end of the day, what is he supposed to do exactly? Is he supposed to pine away for a woman that threw him away and made no intention of having any kind of contact with him? Hell, she went to his estranged brother to dig up dirt on him. Every single action she has made shows him that he means less to her than the ground she walks on. I haven't really followed his story all that closely, but you are more than welcome to prove me wrong on any of the statements I have made.
> 
> Now in regard to Scuba_Steve's case. It is a common situation but still unusual in a few ways. First the age difference... does that make sense? There is no possibility for wife to leave and build a life with an old fossil. If that makes sense I should start looking around for a 35 year old woman to have an affair with (not really). The only indication that she may have had an infatuation, love, NRE type thing is her Victoria Secret purchase. I think she may have made the initial mistake, but could now be being coerced given the power the bosses have over her career and Scuba's career. Maybe not, but it should be considered.
> 
> Nope, it's called cake eating and climbing the corporate ladder hands free. The impression I get is that every single move she made was for her own personal advancement. Selfish people do that kind of thing. Just like shes protecting herself from Steve's wrath, but make no mistake, she is protecting POSOM in the process.
> 
> 
> Most commentary here says that Scuba's wife is not remorseful. I see nothing definitive in Scuba's posts to base that solid conclusion on.
> 
> I and probably many other fail to see where she has shown any remorse. Crocodile tears? Unhappy faces because she was caught?
> 
> It is true that Scuba does not provide a lot of information (and maybe he is wise to do that). He quotes her as desperate to talk about it and, will do anything to make amends. Yet he continues the 180. He'll never find out the full truth without hearing her explanation, even if it is lies, getting a time-line, as well as the information he is getting from other sources.
> 
> Talking to most wayward while they are in the fog make about as much sense as this right here.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qYB1NZcPvqs
> 
> 
> Wife says the affair is over, and phone records, the incident with "you only want sex" (break-up day, she was dumped, the 2 hours was to communicate with OM) seem to confirm this. But her data use went up and she has snapchat on her telephone. There is a lot that we, and maybe Scuba does not know yet.
> 
> No, there's probably a lot of information that Steve doesn't have at this point, but he has enough to know that his wife spread her legs for another man. If infidelity is a deal breaker for him then that's all the evidence he needs. Period!
> 
> We can just agree to disagree.
> 
> We do, on almost every single aspect.


Steve, our objective her is not to give you a rash of ****. Our objective is to help you remove yourself from the pit called infidelity.


----------



## Windwalker

*Re: Good response and measured...*



BluesPower said:


> Well thank you for your response. There are a couple of things that I do want to clear up, not only for you but for others that think about some of these things the same way.
> 
> So the first* BOLD *of your post, what you have to understand is that people like me, mostly men but some women, that do have experience with this stuff, and we are not actually being harsh. What we are doing is actually doling out wisdom. Yes we have lived it, yes we have studied it, and as tough as some of this is, experience informs us that this is truly the only way to handle it. I understand that it sounds dogmatic, but truth is truth.
> 
> We are not trying to exact revenge on the internet, it is just the way that it is. Some men are so weak, so in shock and so broken that they actually ruin any chance of getting the relationship back of track. IF, big IF, that is actually what they want. The thing to understand about infidelity is that it is actually war. War to keep your marriage, if you even want it, war to reclaim your manhood, war to reclaim your life, or make a new one. And in war, there is no room for sentimentality, none. It has to be a cage match, winner take all, scorched earth policy.
> 
> That is the only way that a MAN can reclaim his life. It just is.
> 
> On the second *BOLD*, yeah, it would be nice if it worked this way but it does not, never has, never will. She did what she did, she has been doing it, she has ZERO respect or love for Steve. Like I said, he was safe, he was "Nice", he treated her well, but she is a selfish POS that deserves what is coming.
> 
> Steve has been made a **** through no doing of his own, she did that. She knew what she was doing. What, where, when and with whom, demonstrate with out a doubt the she has no love for her husband.
> 
> Next the third *BOLD*, You can tell she is not remorseful for several reasons. It is always the same BTW. She still works with him. If there is contact of any kind, the affair continues. It does not even matter that they had a spat, it happens all of the time. The affair continues...
> 
> If she was remorseful, and if she loved her husband, she would have reported OM to HR and filed a complaint. This is what a remorseful wife would do. She would have asked for a transfer yesterday, or quite and filed a harassment lawsuit.
> 
> If she was remorseful in anyway, she would come clean to Steve about everything, including the other men she has slept with. She would tell him his name, she would inform his wife. She would be on her knees. She is actually one of the most unremorseful WW's in recent memory for me, but I could have missed some on one of the boards.
> 
> So, in conclusion, while I appreciate your opinion and clear measured response, I think that because you actually, I am assuming, have a great wife, and no experience with infidelity... It can be hard to understand what someone like Steve is going through and even harder to help him GET OUT OF INFIDELITY.
> 
> What Steve needs to do is blow up this situation and take no prisoners. To hell with her career, or anyone else's.
> 
> I do thank you for answering, it really helps me understand others mindsets...


Very concise. 
Damn good post!


----------



## Thor

Scuba_Steve said:


> If my wife needs me to show her how much she ****ed up. That leaves me feeling like reconciliation is pointless with her. If you ask me I'm doing more then enough by letting her show me maybe we can save is. Some guys wouldn't even do that they would just leave.


What I would suggest is being direct in what you need from her, but not try to do the work for her. There is an excellent book called "After the Affair" by Janis Spring which covers both the betrayed's and the cheater's parts in trying to reconcile. You could hand her the book and ask her to read it. You should read it too. The book *does not* in any way excuse an affair or try to blame it on the BS, but it does explain what is going through the cheater's mind. It also explains to the cheater what the betrayed is thinking and feeling, and gives some concrete actions they need to take.

I completely understand where you're at right now. You want her to take the initiative to prove she isn't such a horrible person. You want some hint of hope. You want it to be possible to have a successful R. You know if you tell her you need her to do X, Y, and Z that you can't believe it is genuine when she then does those things. However there is some amount of fake it until you make it, meaning she may have to make the correct motions for a (short) while until it really sinks in for her. There is also some amount of a leap of faith on your part to try R. 

I recommend you have short timelines with firm decisions based on objective results. MC is a good idea, so give it 1 month to see if she actively and honestly makes an effort with therapy. Explain to her *one time only* that you need full honesty, immediate answers, and full transparency (phone, computer, social media, emails, etc). R requires a mix of carrot and stick. Show her you are willing to consider R, but you are firstly watching out for your future well being. This is why everybody is saying to file for D. She needs that view over the edge of the cliff into the abyss so that she knows in her heart you are already gone if she doesn't earn you back.

The truth is she would not have cheated if she knew that you would leave her. Deceivers always believe they will ultimately avoid the full consequences. You have to show her she was wrong.

eta: What I'm trying to say is she may not know what she needs to do. You can tell her, but only do it once. If you repeat it, or if you fail to enforce consequences, she will see you as weak.


----------



## Coach23

Scuba,
I get it man, you love her and it absolutely destroy your heart that she betrayed you. You are in a nightmare right now and keep expecting to wake up and it won't be true. Right now you will do anything, even if it means allowing her to step on you even more, if you can just get her to feel truly sorry, remorseful and ashamed of what she has done. Have her tell you how much she loves you and needs you, will do anything and everything to make it up to you. Time to WAKE UP. It happened, she lied, deceived and betrayed you and your daughter. Sorry to be graphic here but, she SPREAD her legs and WILLINGLY allowed another man’s HARD D*** to PENITRATE her REPEATEDLY.

Get mad & Wake the Fu** up! 

She should be the one begging to Reconcile if that is truly what she wanted and be willing to tell you everything and answer every question you have until you have no more regardless of how long that could take, possibly years. The CHOICE once you know everything and have had ample time to process and absorb it is YOURS. This doesn’t mean you forgive (in my humble opinion) just that you can compartmentalize it enough and are willing to deal with those hurt feeling that WILL come up for you the REST OF YOUR LIFE. 

I’ve been dealing with this crap for 30 years and now wish I had simply ended the relationship back then, dealt with my hurt and found someone where I didn’t have these memories of betrayal. With the advantage of 20/20 hindsight, I realize that Love does NOT conquer all and there is more than one right person for all of us. With that said and your wife’s betrayal, you should actually realize she was NOT the one for you or this wouldn’t have happened to begin with. 

I know if I were in your shoes today knowing what I know. I would simply move on. To be an ASS I would probably tell her agree to the things I want or as your daughter gets older and wants to know why mommy and daddy are not together. "It's because your mother is a Wh***, let me explain sweetie" Unless it won't bother her that her daughter knows why mommy and daddy got divorced.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I thought that's what I have been doing. I've given you guys updates as they happen.Nothing has really happened in last couple of days. Plus the last couple of days I have been trying to catch up on some work. Her affair has had a negative effect on my work performance. So haven't had the time to post as much. I try to answer all questions the other posters ask.


Smart move on your part. If you trust your superior you could clue him in that you have some personal issues.

The worst thing you can do is let this affect your career, future.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

If she decides to come clean and you decide to try to save your marriage
Talk to your PI and ask if you can get a lie detector test done. Just so you 
can maybe get an idea of some sort of truth and how much cheating she may 
have done. One affair or maybe more. Hang in there Steve the shock is still tearing
you apart but believe me and some other people here it will get better. As I posted 
once on this thread I saw what my own son went through and friends also.
Other people here have been through this and know hard it is as well.


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes and no. I won’t lie have people know my wife cheated is embarrassing and emasculating.
> 
> However we flip this my wife’s career is over. The chance of her ever moving up in the company are done. If the affair comes out my wife is the one that comes out looking the worst. Her whole reputation and credibility is thrown into question. And knowing my wife that does scare her she always been career driven. She needs this job way more then I need mine.


What you describe here is leverage. 

She talks or you do.

Or is that extortion?

Eh. Use it.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> However we flip this my wife’s career is over. The chance of her ever moving up in the company are done. If the affair comes out my wife is the one that comes out looking the worst. Her whole reputation and credibility is thrown into question. And knowing my wife that does scare her *she always been career driven.* She needs this job way more then I need mine.


I still don't understand why the OM's "whole reputation and credibility wouldn't be thrown into question" but OK. Then keep your mouth shut and your wife's career should be fantastic after having sex with one of the big bosses. If she's that driven maybe that's why she had sex with him in the first place. Maybe you're correct. Her reputation at work would be thrown into question because everyone at work would suspect that she slept with the boss to advance her career. 

Don't put up with any crap from your wife because you can end her career. Make sure she knows that. I thought you had the OM by the balls but you have your wife by the ovaries.


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

Awhile back you mentioned that OM was not popular, possibly because he has done this to many women coworkers and has destroyed their marriages. Take this Harvey Weinstein type guy down. 

Tamat


----------



## giddiot

Just pull the bandaid off and do something, your procrastinating. Act, tell his wife at least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Edmund

Taxman said:


> Sir, this is where you get anything you want out of her. She is so busy covering her arse that if the truth were to come out, it would totally ruin her, or make her world intensely uncomfortable. In this way, you can get very favorable terms in your impending divorce. I know it sounds as if you are an extortionist, however, you are in the driver's seat, and can dictate your terms. If you want R, then you can literally demand that she pushes a peanut with her nose, totally naked, up the main street of your town. Since she gave you months of discomfort and pain, I suggest that turn about is fair play, make her world intensely uncomfortable. Then after your terms are met, f*ck her over and go public. I am a major prick, but, you are the injured party. Make other people just as injured.


 @Taxman! This is not consistent with your generally non-judgmental posts. Just recently you said you advised a client that he should not put his WW through 3 years of limbo while he used a hall pass to find her replacement. I thought that was reasonable way to get even, you said it was cruel. But now you advise Scuba to inflict injury?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Windwalker said:


> Damn right brother.
> 
> Steve, The Sarge is completely correct.


Sarge learned what needed to be done from the good people of TAM. all of the advice seemed at the time counter intuitive initially. I was initially reluctant to first expose and second to do the 180. Steve needs to take to heart what some of us who have been there done that have advised. You cannot nice a WW back. Women only respect strength. You cannot show weakness although even for a battle hardened jarhead this was the absolute worst thing I experienced. 

Exposure is critical. I cannot stress that enough Steve. You must knock her to her knees so to speak. She can find another job.
Trust me, I will bet you she is part of the office gossip on a regular basis. I exposed to family, close friends, pastor, and my friend who was her boss. He gave POSOM who was my wife’s co worker 30days to find other employment. 

You on the other hand have the ability to file suit and obtain a nice settlement. So can your wife. You seem a tad on the timid side, but if you desire to get out of infidelity you need to take bold measures, the first being exposure. Let your legal counsel handle the company and grandpa as they will be clinical in there approach void of any emotions. I ran your situation by my cousin who is an attorney today and he said both POSOM and company are in a precarious position, and they would settle rather than let this see the inside of a courtroom.

Strength brother. :smile2:


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

ButtPunch said:


> I am reconciled for six years now.
> 
> Don't lump me in the divorce chorus Edmund.
> 
> However, strength is his best option divorce or reconciliation


I wish I could like 1,000 times. Spot on!


----------



## Windwalker

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Sarge learned what needed to be done from the good people of TAM. all of the advice seemed at the time counter intuitive initially. I was initially reluctant to first expose and second to do the 180.


You may have initially been reluctant, but you listened to solid advice. You were determined to remove yourself from infidelity. You took control of the situation and did what was needed. For that, I salute you.

You chose to reconcile. That was the right decision for you, but you did the work necessary to accomplish that goal along with the work your wife did.

Steve, our resident drill instructor has been in your shoes. He knows exactly what you are going through. Give his advice extra consideration. Read his story. Above all else, take some action!


----------



## skerzoid

S_S:

1. Have you had divorce papers drawn up at all? Have you even discussed your rights with a lawyer? You talked about it earlier but the meeting fell through. Get the divorce papers drawn up and ready to give to her. Even after being served, it takes months to work through the system. You can stop them when she deserves it.

2. You may have to guide her through the process. Sit down with her with a list of questions. Tell her she has one chance, only one chance to tell you the truth, The WHOLE TRUTH, even if she thinks it will hurt you more, you have know how deep the rabbit hole goes. One lie and its over. Show her that you have the papers drawn up and are ready to serve her. Leave no doubt in her mind.

3. She has to take a polygraph. This will also be compared to her "truth". She will be asked about other affairs, other partners. No poly, divorce.

4. Complete transparency on phone & other media, with no deletions. 

5. No-contact letter with the OM. Wording approved by you. Any contact after that is instant divorce.

6. She resigns and gets a new job. Non-negotiable. She demands an absolutely perfect letter of recommendation. The threat is that she sues for sexual harassment if she doesn't get a perfect treatment in this. You have Grandpa and the CEO by the balls. Grandpa was probably bragging to his buddy, the CEO about banging your wife. So, they will probably fall over backwards trying to keep this quiet. If they try to "F" with you, you sue them and you will be the new CEO.

7. The Grandpa's wife must be informed. She probably already knows. The day you tried to hug your wife and she rejected you and yelled "All you want is sex!" was the day she got dumped. The Grandma had probably caught them and forced Grandpa to throw her under the bus and dump her. That's the day she realized that she had been used and her fantasy came to an end. "All he wanted was sex!"

8. STD Test, Non-negotiable. 

9. DNA test your kid. Let her know you are doing it.

10.She writes you a letter of apology explaining how she could do this if she really "loved her little family." How could she risk her future, your future, and her child's future?

11.She goes into Individual counseling to find out how she fricked up. You should also be in counseling to help with the damage done to you.

12.She signs a post-nup if she wants to "R".

13.If you choose to "R", she realizes that this is not a sure thing, and make sure she understands she has to be in for the long haul or just divorce now and save time, money, and suffering. 

14. Forget about her figuring this stuff out herself. No deadline. Hit her with it now. Tell her she chooses now. If she says she needs time, nope, just sign the divorce papers now.

DO IT NOW!! Good luck.


----------



## it-guy

Just as cheaters follow a script, so does the BS....

Id say about 90% of betrayed spouses will agree... You are going through a really rough time right now. You are pulled in many directions and trying to weigh out your options. Marriage, commitments, jobs, finances, kids.... It is a lot to think about. And it is super scary. 

The simple truth is that you will probably never be "ok" with your wife cheating on you. You can try to get past it , forgive her, forget it ever happened. But chances are that you wont. You will never get over it. And it will never be ok. 

You can hang in there as long as you can stand it. Or, you can pull the plug now. Be done with it. You are lucky that your child is not old enough to remember you and your wife living together. My oldest child remembers me living with his mother but my youngest does not. There is a noticeable difference.

This mess sucks. There is no way around it. And its going to suck for years. But one day it is going to get better. For me personally it was 4 years after moving out. 4 years is what it took for me to really move on. Now I am 7+ years out from D-Day. I can say without a doubt that my life is much much better. And my future will be better than I ever imagined.


----------



## why_amihere

Thor said:


> The next sensation was lying in bed feeling like there was nothing but empty space below the bed all the way to the core of the planet.


This hits very hard, it has been many years but i still remember in great detail that feeling. Also the feeling of many miles distance between us when lying in the same bed together.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve 

Have you considered that since she had the affair with
Grandpa,who is friends with the CEO that her career 
may already be stalled. During my professional career
I became very aware of how fast office gossip spreads.
Grandpa sounds like the type who would run his mouth
to his friends. Maybe she should consider looking for a new job
with another company. I am not sure how big the company 
is but if other people are aware of this and she gets promoted 
(Even if it is based on job performance) then they may have 
some complaints to HR.If this were to happen then it could also
affect your career as well. Is it possible you and her could transfer
to another part of the company, somewhere else. Maybe just 
get a fresh start in another city. I know you have a lot to deal
with right now just hang in there. This is why I really had cheaters 
they never consider the mess they create and how it affects others.


----------



## [email protected]

HJe's dragging his feet on this, possibly hoping she'll pick him. She won't. She's been banging the boss to get a better job description, and Sam can't compete. But, he won't recognize this.


----------



## [email protected]

Made a mistake. Should have written "Steve".


----------



## dubsey

When she decides she wants to talk, have her write out a timeline of everything. EVERY THING. Stuff you know, stuff you don't. Let her know, if you ever EVER uncover anything that's not on the timeline, she's out. Period. Done.

If she starts doing it, you know she cares more about you than her personal humiliation and her profession. If she doesn't do it, you know where you rank.


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## Coach23

Scuba Steve,

If you look through what most are telling you here and some of the other threads. You will find most of us have been through this. That means we have felt all the pain and now sadly have all the experience. Very few have been able to truly overcome and have a life they feel good about. They stay and feel sad & hurt for the rest of their lives or get a divorce. You’re worried about the wrong things. She is the one who should be begging for a second chance and praying for reconciliation. She should be leaving her job and having no contact with the OM ever again. Full transparency and nothing less is required. If she was so concerned about her career she shouldn't have cheated. You should blow everything up and you should tell everyone. She damn well should feel ashamed and repulsed by her actions. You also owe it to the OM significant other if he has one to tell her. You can't decide for her if she should stay or get a divorce. Who are you to take that decision from her?

Wake up Steve, Grow a Spine, Kick her to the curb at least until the fog clears for her if it does. Then she can beg to come home. Don't make it easy for her. I know you care about her and this feels foreign to do because normally as a spouse (male or female) we want to make our significant others life as enjoyable as we can and be there to support them when times are tough. 

However you MUST go against the grain on this one.

If you want to have a life with her, She must beg for forgiveness and you can't make it easy. If you don't push her to this, I guarantee she will cheat again. She will just be more careful about it. Which means you’re either a doormat or putting off the inevitable and divorce is still in your future, only you have now lost how many more years of quality life and how much more damage has been done to your daughter? 

Trust what we ALL are telling you. Odds are what your being told is the correct course of action.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Waiting for your wife to do what you want and need by the first simply won’t happen. This is a reality based on fact, your wife is believing in a fairy tale that this just goes away after a few weeks. That her life will continue as planned and her marriage intact. It’s just a storm that needs to blow over then all will be fine is what she believes. In your mind this is devastating and now you assign a date to which she must meet. In other words you two are miles apart, and with EXCELLENT communication and remorse your wife can’t meet this date. 

Look at what I wrote above, your wife is still believing she has a marriage to even fix. In your mind you have no marriage at all. Your wife believes she can let this storm blow over and resume her life. You won’t be able to move at all while she still works with OM. You will never feel that you are safe if they are still communicating in any way let alone working together. It will start small in the back of your mind and within a week it will be so bothersome you will think you’re crazy. I know, I walked that path and it destroyed me something fierce. I highly doubt it’s even crossed your wife’s mind to even quit or ask for s transfer if possible, but it crosses your mind every day. This is how far apart you both are and that your date is unrealistic. To put it simply, your wife has not one clue how to fix, repair, what to do, let alone know what you want and need and that you have a date to accomplish this. You having a date to “get it” by is almost as selfish as her affair was. You need to communicate, even though you can’t trust anything she says. 

What you do need to do is have two conversations, one is very simple, and should take only two minutes. In this conversation you tell her what you need, such as the truth of the affair, a written timeline, that she speak to nobody until this is done like her sister or to toxic friend, and that you will revisit this subject on a date you have decided. The date you select you should be alone, so maybe plan on your sister or mother in law to watch your children. Void from this talk will be anger, defensiveness, and walking away. The problem is to be met head on with truth. Tell your wife she had better be honest and that you know far more then she thinks you know. Any lie and the talk stops, from there you will decide the fate of the relationship. 

The date of the talk, you begin with telling her that what happens now is the most important talk of your life. That, should any mistruths come from her mouth, the consequences will be very severe. Do not name these consequences, but rather say marriages will be ending as well as her current lifestyle. Ask her to then admit the affair and answer any and all questions you have. If she refuses any of your questions, you end the conversation, walk away and do the 180 very hard. At this point you begin to make phone calls knowing she can hear you. Call her mom and sister first, then OM’s wife, and at that point she will tell you all. She will tell you because you took an action, also that she doesn’t know who you will call next, but she will be certain of one thing, she won’t want another call made. You can use her fear of everyone knowing against her, and that the truth of what she did will destroy her as well as her reputation. 

Are you strong enough to do this? Are you going to take the reigns and lead? Or are you going to stick to your date of the first and then cave at the stakes at hand before you? Your way is set up for failure, you won’t get anything if you don’t communicate.


----------



## Gabriel

Steve, only you can decide whether you want to keep your wife or not. There's some good advice here but it can be overwhelming. One thing is for certain. Limbo is no place to be. You need to accelerate this to the end (one way or another), not delay it. Trust us here. Delay will only give your wife confidence that she can get away with what she's done. Quick, decisive action is needed, by YOU.

In your shoes, knowing what I know now, I'd do this:

1) Tell her you that the only way your family is going to make it, is for her to come 100% clean with all details and timeline, etc. Explain that you need this to process what happened. Tell her that without this, you can't move on and you'll be filing for divorce.

2) Don't give her a deadline. Sit her down very soon, after your kid is in bed or not at home, and do #1 above, and tell her you need all those answers right now, while you are sitting there. Tell her if you get even a HINT of her leaving something out, hiding facts, etc. that you'll be filing for divorce.

3) Don't reveal how much you know. Instead, just tell her to assume that you know a LOT more than she thinks you know. If she asks "what do you know?", refuse to answer that until she spills her guts on everything.

4) Last, do not make any promises. Here's what I mean by that. Don't tell her that if she comes 100% clean you will agree to reconcile. On the other hand, also don't tell her you're likely done no matter what, either. Tell her that first you need to be completely sure she has given you every bit of information you are looking for. Then, after that, you'll take some time to decide what to do. 

Your wife will likely be too afraid to tell you the complete truth, because she likely feels that if she does, you'll divorce her for sure. She will try to give you just enough to appease your wishes but leave out the worst parts.

This is the hard part. So just tell her that you can take it, you can handle whatever she says because you're already imagining the worst possible thing, and nothing can top your imagination. And if you feel she's holding back even one little bit, it's an automatic divorce result.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Ask your wife these questions;

Do you have a marriage?

Do you think we can recover from your MISTAKE?

Roles reversed, what would you need?

You’ll see posters say that some are in a fog, you could say I’ve researched this, but in my opinion it’s not really a fog. What I have found to be more accurate is this, an irrational delusion of thoughts not based on reality. You said your wife is confused, I don’t think that’s the case here, instead her delusional thoughts have her miles away from reality, she appears confused because she can’t face the reality. Your wife has no perception of what her actions caused, will continue to cause, and the people she has destroyed. This is why she says mistake when reality is she made a choice. 

As for career driven, I think that’s a farce too, true career driven people don’t jeopardize their careers. Your wife’s is in jeopardy, as it should be, because the true career driven person usually works very hard and ethically. Sleeping your way to the top is not only dangerous but could cost the company detrimental damage by having an employee who didn’t have the qualifications or experience to get the job. Kind of like the Peter principle that is so often practiced in police and fire departments. No pun intended on the Peter principle.


----------



## Evinrude58

Lots of the guys here know how you feel, know you’d like to reconcile, want to give you advice that gets you that opportunity.

I admire that. But. You’d be better off divorcing this woman. Even if you “reconcile”, I really think that her true feelings of love for you have been gone for a long time, and I don’t think they come back. For whatever reason, she did not have the love and respect for you that a wife should have, or this never would have happened. 

I think the way your wife is acting, you’re going to get to stay married for a while. But I think for her, it will be for her love of the security you provide, not love for you. She’s shown you how strong her love is for you already. And I think once she feels secure again, the cheating will return. And you’ll be back in this same place of sadness and fear.

I think you should file, and PLAN to divorce. If for some rare reason your wife comes clean and is somehow able to convince you she loves you in spite of the obvious fact that she didn’t before, you can choose to stay.
But the right choice now, is clearly divorce.

It’s far easier to fall in love with a woman you don’t already know will **** you over, than it is to stay in love with a cheater who is just waiting for another opportunity to come along.

Just file. There is no reason not to do that.

And I like the suggestion of telling your wife to tell you the truth, and when she fails (she will refuse to), start making calls to OM wife and your wife’s parents. You deserve the truth, regardless of what happens.

Your wife has ruined your marriage already. Don’t think for one second you can’t find another woman, likely a better woman, and be happy. You CAN.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Ok you guys win. I’m do this your way. I sent her a text asking her for a timeline with all the times, dates, places and length of the affair. Who the affair was with (we know who but if she lies then I’m done) and any emails or anything else she can show to prove what she’s telling me is true. I need all of this before I even consider talking to her.

I won’t expose the affair at work yet. I am thinking about telling the grandpa OM wife. I’m going to ask the P.I if he can provide me with her info. It shouldn’t be a problem for him. After that will decided how to best contact his wife and tell.


----------



## ButtPunch

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok you guys win. I’m do this your way. I sent her a text asking her for a timeline with all the times, dates, places and length of the affair. Who the affair was with (we know who but if she lies then I’m done) and any emails or anything else she can show to prove what she’s telling me is true. I need all of this before I even consider talking to her.
> 
> I won’t expose the affair at work yet. I am thinking about telling the grandpa OM wife. I’m going to ask the P.I if he can provide me with her info. It shouldn’t be a problem for him. After that will decided how to best contact his wife and tell.


Good for you! Take control of this situation.


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## sa58

Outstanding 
Taking control and not backing down!!

Tolerate no lies and watch out for 
fake tears and phony I am sorry


----------



## alte Dame

It's great that you are moving forward.

We have lots of choices in life and lots of experiences that we have no say in. You can decide to reconcile, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you will succeed. It's a long process and your feelings will go through many stages, so just be forewarned.

In cases like yours, though, be doubly warned: Her A with a geriatric boss could naturally result in your losing respect for her, not just because he's an old man, but also because it looks like such a calculated career move. This could result, not just now but also over time, with you losing respect for her & the loss of respect can be an ultimate dealbreaker.

So, just understand that a decision to R is really just a decision to try.


----------



## Evinrude58

Not filing shows her that you are willing to tolerate infidelity.

Because you are.

File even if you don’t want to. Because you should, and it sends a message. And because talking to a lawyer is the first course of acti N before any exposure in this situation, and you haven’t done it


----------



## Coach23

We are so glad to hear your going to take control over the situation. Once you know the truth however, do not "THINK" about telling his wife. You MUST tell his wife. This is non-negotiable with your wife. I would also let his work know. He absolutely should not come out unscathed. He is a homewrecker and should also pay for his actions. Nothing should be coming before your marriage if she really wants it. If she truly love you then she will be more then willing to start her career from the bottom somewhere else and work her up again. That is just part of the price she has to pay for her indiscretions. 

Proud you are starting to see the light. We are here for you. Stay strong.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok you guys win. I’m do this your way. I sent her a text asking her for a timeline with all the times, dates, places and length of the affair. Who the affair was with (we know who but if she lies then I’m done) and any emails or anything else she can show to prove what she’s telling me is true. I need all of this before I even consider talking to her.
> 
> I won’t expose the affair at work yet. I am thinking about telling the grandpa OM wife. I’m going to ask the P.I if he can provide me with her info. It shouldn’t be a problem for him. After that will decided how to best contact his wife and tell.


Eh... face-to-face would’ve been better.


----------



## Steve2.0

I am rooting for you


----------



## Thor

Have a VAR running whenever you have a talk with her. You will miss things and then wonder later what exactly she did or didn't say. Since the chances are a conversation could pop up at any moment, keep a VAR on you when she is home, especially this evening.

Good luck.


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## sa58

Check the VARS in the house and car ASAP.
She may try and contact OM or toxic friend .


----------



## TAMAT

wrong post


----------



## GusPolinski

sa58 said:


> Check the VARS in the house and car ASAP.
> She may try and contact OM or toxic friend .


Oh dude yes.

I’m often surprised that the “say things to freak her out or piss her off and then get the VAR later” tactic doesn’t occur to more people.

Doubly so for those that already have VARs in place.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
I do not remember if you said your state
was a two party or one party consent to
recording. If it is a one state consent then 
everything you record is legal.


----------



## x598

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok you guys win. I’m do this your way. I sent her a text asking her for a timeline with all the times, dates, places and length of the affair. Who the affair was with (we know who but if she lies then I’m done) and any emails or anything else she can show to prove what she’s telling me is true. I need all of this before I even consider talking to her.
> 
> I won’t expose the affair at work yet. I am thinking about telling the grandpa OM wife. I’m going to ask the P.I if he can provide me with her info. It shouldn’t be a problem for him. After that will decided how to best contact his wife and tell.


get ready for her to go bat s$hit crazy on you when it comes time to see her.

make absolute certain you have the VAR running and have your phone on voice record in your pocket as well.

you are going to see a side of your wife in anger never before seen.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok you guys win. I’m do this your way. I sent her a text asking her for a timeline with all the times, dates, places and length of the affair. Who the affair was with (we know who but if she lies then I’m done) and any emails or anything else she can show to prove what she’s telling me is true. I need all of this before I even consider talking to her.
> 
> I won’t expose the affair at work yet. I am thinking about telling the grandpa OM wife. I’m going to ask the P.I if he can provide me with her info. It shouldn’t be a problem for him. After that will decided how to best contact his wife and tell.


Steve..... So very sorry this happened to you. She will fudge on the timeline because she is not

aware of what you know, or the fact you have a PI. Do not let her know what you know.

Act as if you know the entire story and if she leaves anything out, you will file for D tomorrow morning.

I hate that you are in NY, one year wait for a D and courts really cut the throats of the Hs.

Does she make more than you? How old is your daughter?


----------



## BluesPower

*Yes, that is for sure...*



x598 said:


> get ready for her to go bat s$hit crazy on you when it comes time to see her.
> 
> make absolute certain you have the VAR running and have your phone on voice record in your pocket as well.
> 
> you are going to see a side of your wife in anger never before seen.


When she starts to realize what is going to happen... she will go ape s***. 

Think about it:

1) here she is with "NICE GUY" Steve taking care of her at home (probably not sexually but cleaning, watching the kid, and what not),

2) then she is sleeping her way to the top, and we don't know how many guys she slept with...

3) Steve finally finds his balls and blows up her world...

4) No more career, no more "rising" star, eventually no job...

5) Current OM's wife blows him out of the water, he Breaks it off with Steve's wife...

6) OM, gets his nuts in a vice with the company and has to quit...

Oh, yeah, she will freak out. 

And you know what, if Steve has a single ball left and does what has to be done, when she lies (AGAIN!) to him, yeah, she is done...

My bet is once Steve puts he nuts back on, and she lies to him, because she is not really that smart, he will divorce her in two shakes of a lambs tail. 

I want to see what happens with this one, it should be fun, for us, but not for Steve. He does not realize it yet be he WILL hurt more for a while, but after the divorce, at his age, he is going to have a blast...


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... face-to-face would’ve been better.


I would’ve preferred to do it in person. I didn't really think it through. It was spur of the moment thing.


----------



## manfromlamancha

She needs to come clean about every single detail in a timeline. She also needs to think long and hard about why she did this and offer you some kind of heartfelt explanation (this normally is never the full story or truth and is the hardest to get out of them).

For example, why she thought it was OK to **** another man, why at work, and most important of all, why this old unattractive man? Did she feel any attraction to him at all ? Or was it to get ahead at work ? Who initiated ? What was said and how did it progress ? Did she find him more attractive than you at any time ?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chuck71 said:


> Steve..... So very sorry this happened to you. She will fudge on the timeline because she is not
> 
> aware of what you know, or the fact you have a PI. Do not let her know what you know.
> 
> Act as if you know the entire story and if she leaves anything out, you will file for D tomorrow morning.
> 
> I hate that you are in NY, one year wait for a D and courts really cut the throats of the Hs.
> 
> Does she make more than you? How old is your daughter?


I agree, I don't see her going through with what I'm asking. Her loss not mine. 

Does divorce in NY really take that long, I was told I could be divorced within six months. Yeah I know a few guys that have been cleaned out by their ex wives.

I make more then she does.

Two going on three


----------



## hoblob

Good luck with this.


----------



## thedope

Scuba, I’m not trying to be a jerk. But you’re wife is gaslighting you. She isn’t really remorseful, she still hiding and trying to protect Granpa. I don’t want to make you feel bad, but your wife values protecting Grandpa more than she does easing your pain. I hate it when waywards try to play the blame me not my married affair partner game. If she didn’t care about Grandpa she wouldn’t be trying to protect him. She yet again is choosing him over you. Against she won’t tell you his name because she’s protecting him. Does she really expect you to be like Ohh your having an affair we can totally reconcile without you even telling me who it is? Like really... come on.

Don’t be a jerk to her. But I wouldn’t even consider reconciliation at this point. You shouldn’t even think that word. If you want her to do the timeline so you get closure for for it. Id finish the divorce if she starts doing the work you could consider to date her after the divorce. But she isn’t R material right now, I am sorry. I know that has to give you a horrible feeling but get strong and stand up for yourself. Don’t let this woman keep letting her put Granpa before you and claim she loves you. F that.

The best thing you can do is tell his wife, give her undeniable evidence and NT tell you wife prior to doing this. If you tell your wife she will tell Grandpa. Grandpa will spin it like you are a crazy jealous man or something and his wife won’t believe you. When you tell his wife you will

1. Take control back, your wife will know she doesn’t get to call the shots 

2. Get some self respect back

3. Wake your wife up and remove some fog, it will actually help her in the long term. Get her some IC.


----------



## Evinrude58

Scuba_Steve said:


> I agree, I don't see her going through with what I'm asking. Her loss not mine.
> 
> Does divorce in NY really take that long, I was told I could be divorced within six months. Yeah I know a few guys that have been cleaned out by their ex wives.
> 
> I make more then she does.
> 
> Two going on three


N York? Oh lord.
Yes pease see an attorney before you expose her.
Please. 
And as bad as you’re goong to be screwed over, I’d think about getting real proof of bosses infidelity, court usable proof, and have her get the company for sexual herrasment. You need to squeeze every penny just to be able to afford a divorce.

Oh, and you already know she’s going to lie to you. Why even ask?

The truth is not in her, or you’d have it already.

See an attorney. You don’t have any choice except to proscrastinate. And spur of the moment decisions will ruin you. Gotta stop that.


----------



## thedope

SHE absolutely absolutely is going to lie and trickle truth.


----------



## sa58

You will probably soon she who she really is. 
More than likely she will still try and lie and protect OM


See a lawyer
Have her served at work
When you know she has been served
send out company E-mail announcing 
you BYOB divorce party from her
reason why she cheated with someone 
at the company. 

You can inform Grandma very
simply by leaving info at her house
If you do not want her to know who
sent it. Put it in a package with a note 
saying JUST THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> I would’ve preferred to do it in person. I did really think it through. It was spur of the moment thing.


I understand.

She give anything up yet?


----------



## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> N York? Oh lord.
> Yes pease see an attorney before you expose her.
> Please.
> And as bad as you’re goong to be screwed over, I’d think about getting real proof of bosses infidelity, court usable proof, and have her get the company for sexual herrasment. You need to squeeze every penny just to be able to afford a divorce.
> 
> Oh, and you already know she’s going to lie to you. Why even ask?
> 
> The truth is not in her, or you’d have it already.
> 
> See an attorney. You don’t have any choice except to proscrastinate. And spur of the moment decisions will ruin you. Gotta stop that.


Steve...... @ReGroup had to get D in NY....... Holy Fing Crap it was horrid. Check out his thread

if your W wants to play dirty. That thread is a "how-to" on how to deal with an angry WW.

Consult a lawyer..... accept nothing less than 50 / 50 custody. Do you have many accumulated assets? 

Be sure to ask about child support.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I would’ve preferred to do it in person. I did really think it through. It was spur of the moment thing.


Under the circumstances I think a black and white text is good.

It's simple and direct


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

One thing you can do is say you met with a lawyer, that he advised to fill out the paperwork on your own to lessen the cost. Your lawyer also advised you can print these off the counties website in which you reside. Just casually begin to fill them out at your kitchen table after the children go to bed. If your wife asks you why just tell her you have no confidence in her to be forthright with any communication or timeline regarding to the affair. She may get pissed, but ask her what she would want if the roles were reversed. Ask her if you can start dating someone like she did. See what her answers are, your trying to put this to her in way that she knows how serious this is. 

As for saying we here at TAM win, even though I know what you meant, nobody is going to win. You will carry this scar the rest of your life no matter your choice to reconcile or divorce. We at TAM didn’t win anything, but you have been turned onto a path that includes what is best for you and not your wife. You now control what you will do, you will decide to expose or not, the first test is telling OM’s wife and what your wife’s reaction to that is. 

Oh, and if she tells you or comes home possed off, tell her you have a date and walk out of the house. Go to a friends or local pub, have a drink to what was your marriage.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I agree, I don't see her going through with what I'm asking. Her loss not mine.
> 
> Does divorce in NY really take that long, I was told I could be divorced within six months. Yeah I know a few guys that have been cleaned out by their ex wives.
> 
> I make more then she does.
> 
> Two going on three


You are doing the right thing. 

She made this mess, not you. For your child's sake I really do hope she comes clean.

Might not be a bad idea to call the sister up and drop a hint that you know more than your wife thinks you know and that your resolution is a swift divorce if she does not offer a full, complete honest confession.

Keep it to yourself that you might divorce her anyway even if she does.


----------



## Marc878

Her reaction will tell you what you need to know.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

GusPolinski said:


> I understand.
> 
> She give anything up yet?


No not yet, probably won't. We had a conversation we didn't seem willing.


----------



## Marc878

You have your answer if that doesn't change.


----------



## Marc878

If all you do is talk this will just drag out and you'll continue to wallow in infidelity.

She's probably banking on you caving. If you do you'll live life on her terms.

I'd file and inform other mans wife at the same time. Send her a copy of the phone bill and a pic of her condoms. Tell the other woman at least they used protection.


----------



## Chuck71

Have her take off work tomorrow. You have a surprise for her. She'll go for it.

Drive to an attorney's office.

"The moment my happy ass goes in, we're through" 

No more Mickey Mouse BS


----------



## Marc878

Steve,

You need to take a good hard look at who she really is. 

You have more insight and background than most do in these situations.

Use it !!!!


----------



## Sparta

Hey Steve I know you’re huge crisis mode please give us more information. Hey buddy it’s going to help you in your situation. The information you provide help you so please the more you tell us of the way she’s acting is critical for us to help you, so is you can tell us what she saying what she’s not saying and what are her actions telling you... hang in there buddy you got us on your side


----------



## Coach23

You know what is really sad for all of us that have been betrayed is the fact the we want them to come clean and be honest, but the reality is when it comes to this situation and this time in your lives. You will never really know the truth. You weren't there. She could be the most honest person in the world moving forward and never tell another lie, but when it comes to this, you will never know what the "Real Truth" is. I can tell you from my experience, it is a difficult thing to live with and as I have said many times. I Love my wife and always have, still wish I had gotten a divorce way back when. I have found that no matter how much I care for her the mental movies and images always pop up from time to time. There are always triggers to deal with. Honestly staying with her even though I love her wasn't worth the pain I've dealt with for so many years. 

Really if I had to do it again and my advice to you. Screw all the talking. Just get a divorce and move on to someone better. If you’re a sensitive person as I am, you will never be happy no matter how hard she tries in the relationship and how honest she is. It's just a shi**y way to live.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba_Steve said:


> No not yet, probably won't. We had a conversation we didn't seem willing.




That would make it so I drive to OM’s house and speak to his wife in person. Not giving you information is to protect herself, her OM, and that she has no respect or love for you. Get that PI of yours going, then call your attorney and have him call the CEO about the hostile work environment. Go nuclear.


----------



## Suspicious1

This is true in so many levels, I have read your post many times and read the pain in your heart, and can read your love for your wife is 100% genuine.

Knowing myself and finding out what Steve has been dealt with is simply cruel, it's something I would not be able to handle until we're old and grey as it never happend. 
I would be playing out different angel on how it really went down, what is she really thinking at any particular time, where did she taste the fancy wine.
Did they bad mouth me when they laid in bed, was she in love with this man. 
A plethora of of unhealthy thoughts would make permanente resident in my head, that reframe from writing.

If I choose you to be my wife, and have a children there's nothing on this earth I would not do for them. I would gladly sacrifice myself for their happiness without a second thought. 
This might sound sexist but as a woman you can't be faithful, or truthful you're worthless to me. There I said it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Sparta said:


> Hey Steve I know you’re huge crisis mode please give us more information. Hey buddy it’s going to help you in your situation. The information you provide help you so please the more you tell us of the way she’s acting is critical for us to help you, so is you can tell us what she saying what she’s not saying and what are her actions telling you... hang in there buddy you got us on your side


I’ve been ignoring her for the most part. I haven’t had a real conversation with her in person for almost a week. She has asked to talk but I usually shut that down unless it has something to do with our daughter. She seems sorry, says she wants to work this out. Most people her don’t believe that, I don’t really know if she’s being honest. She sends me a text every night asking to come to bed. I’ve been sleeping in the guest bedroom since she came back from her moms. That seems to have bothered her more than I thought it would. She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change. 

I still feel numb. A part of me doesn’t care, It scares me. I’ve always been kind of laidback and nonchalant about about thing. But never when it came to stuff like this. Maybe she’s going through something similar.


----------



## Suspicious1

@ coach23

Meant to quote your post 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> No not yet, probably won't. We had a conversation we didn't seem willing.


She is unwilling so it is time to push. File for divorce. In NY State you can go no fault or file for infidelity and name the OM. 

No fault is cheaper and shorter especially if she does not contest. Filing under infidelity is more expensive.

One tactic is to keep her affair secret but make her pay for it by not getting alimony, or you get the child more hours etc. 

Your attorney will advise of course. Naming the partner in the divorce petition route provides leverage too. Perhaps a letter to HR putting them on notice. If the company is big enough and has policies in place concerning workplace affairs between senior management and subordinates they will conduct their own investigation.

If she is unwilling to make a deal then just nuke her and him. Even if you don't have admissible proof just name him. Tell the OM's wife you know but not how. Let the two of swim in that. 

Once she sees the papers filed and stuff is getting real you might get the confession then.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve been ignoring her for the most part. I haven’t had a real conversation with her in person for almost a week. She has asked to talk but I usually shut that down unless it has something to do with our daughter.* She seems sorry, says she wants to work this out*. Most people her don’t believe that, *I don’t really know if she’s being honest*. She sends me a text every night asking to come to bed. I’ve been sleeping in the guest bedroom since she came back from her moms. That seems to have bothered her more than I thought it would. She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change.
> 
> I still feel numb. A part of me doesn’t care, It scares me. I’ve always been kind of laidback and nonchalant about about thing. But never when it came to stuff like this. Maybe she’s going through something similar.


Sorry for what? She is stonewalling you. To be sorry and for you to 'forgive' you have to know exactly what is that occurred. So far she has told you nothing you don't already know. 

If she were honest she would not have cheated and would have come clean by now. 

By not coming to bed you have started the detachment process. She wants to sex the affair away, sweep it under the rug. Like you both have had a bad argument and sex will make it up. The reality is sex with her will haunt you if not now later on. This isn't going away by being intimate, not without full disclosure and a real path to reconciliation.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Steve, just like you have us egging you on to get your just deserts, so does she have her peanut gallery egging her not to be trampled by you. Your wife believes that her affair was justified due to your deficiencies (multiple choice, pick all that apply - didn't give me enough attention, didn't support my career, didn't help enough at home, I love you but I'm not in love with you, I deserve to be happy, my daughter will be better off if her mom is happy, I haven't been happy in this marriage for a long time, if I was in love with you I wouldn't have wanted to have a wrinkled old man inside of me, or "other" (fill in the blank)). 

Your wife has told the toxic confidante those things and was told by the toxic friend, "You go, girl!" and now is telling your wife not to reconcile with you unless you step up to the plate and finally meet her needs and make her happy. Her sister may or may not try to straighten her out, but your wife will only accept opinions that agree with her already. If there is a person your wife admires greatly, your wife will listen to that person. 

But your communication of your needs was necessary. It was a first step to negotiate. Even if you don't plan to lower your demands, it is a negotiation. Your wife is playing hardball and has not given you even the smallest of your demands. She is willing to risk you. So far, she is letting it ride, roll the dice. You must realize that cheaters are very bold and willing to take tremendous risks. Betrayed spouses, from my experiences, are not usually very bold. Your wife knows you and she is basing her calculations on your past behavior. It's very common for one spouse who usually gave in during a dispute to keep peace rather than continuing discord. Also, some people have a very, very difficult time to say, "I'm wrong." We all know at least one e person like that. I've seen a few divorces because of that. So if your wife is like that, say sayonara to your marriage. 

You must realize that your wife has altered her reality, like a drug, affairs do that, and sometimes cheaters never recover. Like the drug has damaged them forever. Or possibly your wife always was like that but you never had a big disagreement before and you gave in to the small stuff.

Regardless, all you can do is take it one step at a time. You decide the pace, but my experience is that if you are not pushing it forward, she will be complacent to do nothing. You making requests, you taking actions to tell other man's wife, to get an attorney, to file for divorce, etc., are the things that will cause her to either step up to the plate or not. 

What you are looking for is for her to make amends. When you aggrieve someone, making amends is the right thing to do. When I was a child, I stole a small toy from a store. My parents made me go back to the store, apologize to the owner, and pay back the amount I stole. Your wife stole your trust, and perhaps it can't be fixed as easily as if she stole a toy. 

But she can apologize sincerely, tell the truths she has kept from you, and try to restore your trust (by giving evidence that her words, previously lies, are now true). Every time she tells you something, and you find out by evidence it is true, trust grows. When this happens over and over, soon enough, you don't feel you need the proof anymore.

My recommendation is to keep moving forward to what you need. I think you need a wife who shows you love and respect. You've already taken your vows, that is what you want. Her cheating, then refusing to give you the love and respect of honesty and making amends, is not the love and respect you signed up for. So if she is not willing to honor her vows, then move to annul or legally end the contract. If she has second thoughts and fix the problems, it's up to you to decide if you are not too far detached to give her another chance.

But given on her own, without your actions as impetus, she may not do anything at all for a year or more.


----------



## stro

Sounds like she is trying to walk a tight rope. Keep her little family together and also protect her career and save herself all the humiliation that will come with being outed. I hope she comes clean man. And I really hope she isn’t still taking advice from the toxic friend. She has no idea how much damage she’s doing.


----------



## Marc878

Have you found out who the enabling fried is?

Maybe the unknown prepaid phone number?


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve been ignoring her for the most part. I haven’t had a real conversation with her in person for almost a week. She has asked to talk but I usually shut that down unless it has something to do with our daughter. She seems sorry, says she wants to work this out. Most people her don’t believe that, I don’t really know if she’s being honest. She sends me a text every night asking to come to bed. I’ve been sleeping in the guest bedroom since she came back from her moms. That seems to have bothered her more than I thought it would. She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change.
> 
> I still feel numb. A part of me doesn’t care, It scares me. I’ve always been kind of laidback and nonchalant about about thing. But never when it came to stuff like this. Maybe she’s going through something similar.


I know if you expose, she will lose her job as a liability. Will that harm you in the D? As in

shelling out more $ to her. Also... there is a good chance you would lose your job too.

That's why they have "evaluations" Which is nothing more than a paper trail to fire someone and 

not get sued.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Her wanting you on bed is for her to feel normal. She wants to prove she loves you by sex.

If you don't know if a liar is telling the truth, look at the liar's actions. Her actions are that she loves you. But she loves herself more.

She is there. Being nice to you. Wanting to share her bed with you and have sex. She is doing her fair share in the house. She wants to make it up to you ON HER TERMS. Sex. Service. Compliments. But not honesty. 

There are some things she won't do. These things are for her. It will "cost" her too much to comply. She loves you enough for the other things, not for the things you ask. 

It is not unreasonable for you to ask for those things. If you asked her to cut her fingers off, that would be unreasonable. To ask for honesty, that is at the heart of your vows - respect. Lying is disrespectful.


----------



## Marc878

Don't let her put you in a ***** coma.


----------



## Thor

Steve, a couple of points here.

1) You must talk to an atty asap! You need actual real and accurate info on how D works in your location. Child support (will be a cold mathematical calculation), child custody, alimony, splitting of assets (especially if either of you have an inheritance or other asset you brought into the marriage). How long will it take? Do you need your PI to get admissible evidence? Fault or no-fault? What happens if either of you loses your job? You need to know all this stuff so you can make good decisions. Also, you will feel a lot less anxiety once you have real facts to work with.

2) Your wife may be getting all kinds of bad advice from friends. It could include "Just be patient, men will eventually get over it". It could be toxic advice to lie to you. Regardless, she needs to know what it is you need from her. Timeline you've asked for, so now she needs to know the rest. Full confession, NO trickle truth. No lies in the future. Full, immediate, and honest answers to anything you ask at any time. Immediate and complete transparency (phone, email, social media, etc). MC. She needs to tell her parents. She has to go to IC perhaps.

3) She needs to know you are already gone. You have to hold her out over the cliff edge and let her see into the abyss, and she has to believe you prefer to let go than to pull her back in. Most of us make a big mistake here. I told my xw I valued marriage and I wanted to fix the marriage. Boom! I blew up almost any chance of success. Even though I followed that up with I needed full honesty from her etc, what she heard was I wouldn't divorce her. So many of us make this mistake! This is why you file for divorce even if you greatly prefer R. Now she knows she has to do A+ work to win you back, rather than D- work to just keep you from leaving.


----------



## seadoug105

Leave a divorce attorneys business card out on the counter like you forgot it....


----------



## 3putt

seadoug105 said:


> Leave a divorce attorneys business card out on the counter like you forgot it....


Or better yet, or in addition to, one belonging to a private investigator.


----------



## TDSC60

For R to be possible, she has to answer ALL questions you have truthfully and without hesitation - even the questions she does not see as relevant. 

Did you give her a due date for the written timeline?

It may be that an affair is a dealbreaker for you and you just have not accepted it yet.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> No not yet, probably won't. We had a conversation we didn't seem willing.


You understand what this means, right?


----------



## Windwalker

Marc878 said:


> Don't let her put you in a ***** coma.


Amen.

Absolutely positively, DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER!
It could be possibly seen as forgiving her infidelity.

Don't do it!


----------



## sa58

Steve 
The next time she wants you to come to bed
tell her the same thing she told you
" you only want to have sex with me" 
add "so I will forget about you affair 
and how you betrayed me"

Think about the time she went out and 10 am
and did not return until 6pm. She went to meet
Grandpa for lunch and then sex. She then
took a shower and came home and laid down in bed
next to you. She then told you she loved you and her 
little family. LIES How many lies did she tell Grandpa
after sex when she was laying next to him. Lie about 
you and her little family. When she went out with 
unknown friends she did the same thing. 

How many lies has she told her toxic friend about 
you and her little family. Her toxic friend is an enabler
no doubt.GO FOR IT GIRL etc. If she is not willing to
come clean then she does not regret what she did.
She will cheat again. I have no doubt about it.

You know your wife better (maybe) than anyone.
Think about this. You make more money than she
does. You have other income from other sources.
Grandpa makes more money than you . Grandpa 
could help with her career and maybe she thought 
she could replace Grandma. Is there a pattern maybe.
Does she use sex, lies and deception for career
and lifestyle advancement.MAYBE MAYBE NOT. 
Maybe Grandpa figured out what she was after 
and trying to do and who she really is and used
her and got rid of her.Then she came crawling
back to you.

Have you figured her out yet!! If this was 
what she was doing then how long before 
she sets her eyes on another man and 
cheats again. You may never know
because she has learned form this affair.

Just think about how many times she 
lay next to Grandpa and talked about you
and he probably talked about Grandma.
How many times did she then come back 
to you and lie about her love for you?
If you let her rug sweep this she will do it again.

What ever she was doing or planning 
did not work out for her this time.
She came back to good ole Scuba Steve
(PLAN B) 

See a lawyer and file and expose her
for her affair and who she really is.
Do not allow her to use your love 
and sex to pull you back into 
a life of lies,sex,and infidelity.

She is scared now about what you will do
and wants everything to go away and act
like it never happened. She will use what ever
she can to do this. 

No truth No regret No staying together
I am not you but if I was I would find 
it very hard right now to even look at 
her and not picture her with Grandpa
I would really find it hard to sleep with
her without thinking about her having sex 
with Grandpa. 

If you do file and then be prepared for her
to do just about anything (Lies to coworkers
family and friends ) to save her own skin form 
being exposed. She probably all ready has 
started. Please take care of yourself and 
do not become plan B.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve been ignoring her for the most part. I haven’t had a real conversation with her in person for almost a week. She has asked to talk but I usually shut that down unless it has something to do with our daughter. She seems sorry, says she wants to work this out. Most people her don’t believe that, I don’t really know if she’s being honest. She sends me a text every night asking to come to bed. I’ve been sleeping in the guest bedroom since she came back from her moms. That seems to have bothered her more than I thought it would. She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change.
> 
> I still feel numb. A part of me doesn’t care, It scares me. I’ve always been kind of laidback and nonchalant about about thing. But never when it came to stuff like this. Maybe she’s going through something similar.


This is the one and only response you should send to any text (or e-mail) she sends you —

“Talk.”

No sleeping in the same bed, and DEFINITELY NO SEX.


----------



## sa58

Like Gus said text message- "Talk"
And just like I said text what she said to you

"You just want to have sex with me" 
"Just so I will forget how you cheated and 
betrayed me"

I wonder how she will react if you do?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Remember if you aren't getting the kind of response you had hoped from your cheating wife (blubbering, snotty, stupid mess) it's probably not going to come as an epiphany one day. The remorse usually comes early or not at all. 

Sometimes it only comes when they see what they thought you were not capable of- going nucleur. Roll out the D in a cold calculated fashion. Either they will melt into a cowering blob of fear OR nothing. Either way, you have your answer. From that moment on, if she isn't doing everything to win you back, then you know it's the right decision. If she pulls her head out of her ass and proves she is worthy of redemption, then you will have a choice.

Either way you are in complete control, not waiting for fate to screw you over.


----------



## 3putt

I'd make it a bit more direct with a little underlying threat to boot:

You start talking truth....or I will. 

Tighten the screws.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

I do not know your plans for Easter Sunday but
I would like to suggest maybe something with the
daughter. NOT THE WIFE!! Show her you can get
along just fine with out her. NO TALK NO STEVE
Why not start the weekend off today? Just you and 
your daughter go someplace together. Leave wife at home
alone. If she asks you where your going tell her what she
told you '' No where" Checked the VARS when you get back.
If she can and is willing to show disrespect to you 
why not. Tell her you will come back when she is willing 
to talk. Besides some time alone with your daughter will
be good for you


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Tell her she needa to be tested for STDs, particularly HPV, which is something she could have caught even with a condom. Grandpa probably had a whole harem and perhaps even an open marriage with a promiscuous wife. Explain that you expect her to wash her hands thoroughly before touching your child.


----------



## Evinrude58

I’ll bet she talks when op files and identifies grandpa as the AP and explains how he plans to f up his cheating wife’s world. She’ll sing him a song, because she cares more about herself than she ever did about OP. 

But it looks like op is gonna let her rugsweep


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> I agree, I don't see her going through with what I'm asking. Her loss not mine.
> 
> Does divorce in NY really take that long, I was told I could be divorced within six months. Yeah I know a few guys that have been cleaned out by their ex wives.
> 
> I make more then she does.
> 
> Two going on three


Make sure you get 50/50 custody.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve been ignoring her for the most part. I haven’t had a real conversation with her in person for almost a week. She has asked to talk but I usually shut that down unless it has something to do with our daughter. She seems sorry, says she wants to work this out. Most people her don’t believe that, I don’t really know if she’s being honest. She sends me a text every night asking to come to bed. I’ve been sleeping in the guest bedroom since she came back from her moms. That seems to have bothered her more than I thought it would. She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change.
> 
> I still feel numb. A part of me doesn’t care, It scares me. I’ve always been kind of laidback and nonchalant about about thing. But never when it came to stuff like this. Maybe she’s going through something similar.


Don’t sleep with her. This and your silence is the only repercussions she is getting. You need to let your family know what has been going on. They can be there for you and help when needed. 

Find the best divorce lawyer you can afford also do the free consultation with the next 4. That way your STBXW can’t use them. Hit her with divorce papers, if you want answers, this will be the only way to get them. If she refuses to give the answers at that point you know she cares more for herself and the GUYS she has been sleeping with then you and your marriage. 

I honestly believe she has been sleeping with each manager she has been on a trip with. The upper management play thing you might say. The old guy was two trips ago I think you said the last one was with her boss. She had the protection on that trip. She either screwed him or the client.


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> She hasn’t really done anything besides saying she sorry. She still does most of the things she usually does around the house. Maybe today that will change.
> Maybe she’s going through something similar.


Maybe, Maybe , MAYBE!?!?

For God's Sake. Stop hoping. Hit her hard. Take action. 

You want to save your marriage? YOU HAVE TO SHOW HER YOU ARE WILLING TO LOSE IT!!!!!

Will you please listen to us? It is beyond frustrating when people come here wanting advice and help & then refuse to take the action that we all KNOW they have to take. :banghead:


----------



## ABHale

Steve if you want to R you have to be willing to loose the marriage to save it. You have to talk with her so she k owns exactly what you need to save the marriage. Tell her or write it out. Don’t back down on any of the questions you need answers to. 

If you are going to divorce then you need to keep doing what you are. It’s The 180, it’s not used to save a marriage. It’s used to help one to detach from their cheating spouse when divorcing them. 

Personally I think you should continue The 180 and divorce her cheating ass.


----------



## Herschel

Edmund said:


> I hate to see peoples marriages break up, in most cases, and I particularly hate to see the effect on the children. I figure the adults can go on with their lives, but the children are innocent and should not have to suffer because parents are selfish. This is all I'm ever going to say about me. If you see my posts and say I'm an idiot or whatever, fine, no offense taken. We can just agree to disagree.


Your entire post was well thought out and reasoned. I tend to take the opposite side that the person who cheats is ruining he marriage and not the person who then has to weigh the rest of their lives in if they can ever trust this person again.

However, I am a firm believer it is always worse for the children to stay in a bad marriage. You are teaching them to lie and fake and accept failure in addition to wasting your life. Nobody wants to see a good marriage/family break up. But it’s worse to keep a bad one together and just pretend.


----------



## BluesPower

*After your last post...*

After your last post... and her unwillingness to do ANYTHING, Steve buddy, this is done. 

If any of her actions showed anything, you might have something to work with, you don't. 

Buddy, it is time to end it, blow it up, expose to everyone and file for divorce. 

You have given her a chance and she blew it. The thing is, unlike others that say she loves you, no man, she does not. She is protecting her lover, not you, not the marriage, not the family, only her POS lover.

At this point you have to wonder is she ever did. She knows her marriage is on the line and she will not do anything to save it. SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. 

If she did she would do anything she could to save the marriage and she is not doing that. 

JUST FILE, if you are ever to get your self respect back, you just have no choice.


----------



## thedope

She cares more about Grandpa than Scuba. She is protecting his identity even though she knows it hurts Scuba. Have some self respect scubasteve, your wife doesn’t deserve you. The quicker you get the ball rolling the shorter the recovery time will be.


----------



## Chuck71

Steve..... you may be tempted by her actions to rugsweep. As we all here say, do not do it.

It will be like a tropical bug bite.... sore at first, hurt a bit, leave a tiny bruise, but you think you will

be okay. Short time passes and that bite has become infected and your foot / toes are green and black.

Even with medical care, you may lose limbs. Same thing with rugsweeping. You will feel all

good and relaxed....y'know, before you became suspicious. Given enough time you will truly

begin to second guess your decision. Some live to regret it..... read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/305850-new-here-but-not-new-infidelity.html

Think critically on every decision, if she pressures you -I am not ready to discuss this, at this time-

You have every right to say that. And if she gives you a time line... get away from her while you

view it. And double check everything with the PI.


----------



## wmn1

Steve,

what is your gameplan now ??


----------



## Chaparral

Good first step in asking for the timeline. If she doesn’t immediately come through the next step is telling the Posom’s wife. 

Has any of her family been n contact with you? You need to tell her parents who the other man is. I think her whole strategy is to stay silent and save her job. She isn’t protecting him, she thinks she can save her job and her marriage. It would not surprise me if she hasn’t also done her other boss. But that’s for later. She is hanging on by a thread. When his wife is told I expect the damn to burst. 

If you want to try and put more pressure on her first, see if you can download andivorce packet from your state, print it off and start filling it out where she will see it.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

If not response yet then she may be still trying
to rug sweep. Your deadline approaches April 1
So many questions remain?

If you do not want to talk to her face to face
then text two words-

TALK
WHO

Repeat over and over to her.
If she does not respond then you have 
given her the chance to fix this.

You came here seeking advice and guidance 
we have given it. If she does not respond
then you have your answer.

TEXT TALK -WHO

Update us as soon as you can
Your deadline approaches do you
stick to it ? Your choice?

TEXT HER TODAY 
TALK WHO
two simple words to repeat
as many times as needed.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week. 

I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying. 

I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week.
> 
> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> 
> I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


Now's the time to schedule a polygraph. You'll be surprised how much more comes out.


----------



## badmemory

Scuba_Steve said:


> According to her time line they *only* meet for sex 5 times.


Is "only" her word or yours?

If it's hers, that's minimizing that should insult your intelligence.

If it's yours, just realize that it doesn't matter whether it was 3, 5 or 20 times. It's a brutal betrayal either way.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

She should be bending over backwards to comfort you. Not the other way around. So what consequences is she going to face for this? You are already back in bed together. Already wanting to comfort her. My guess is you will help her rug sweep this mess. 

Well if she isn't going to face any sort of negative consequences for her actions, at least do the right thing by grandpa's wife and inform her that her husband is a cheater. 

If you are going to try to R, which that is already where you have been leaning towards this whole time, at least Google "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" and send your wife some links. You shouldn't have to do this, as she should be the one taking initiative and doing all the heavy lifting. But sense you seem hell bent on helping her rug sweep and try to ignore your own pain, you can do all the heavy lifting here as well. 

Either way, continue down this path and I foresee future infidelity in your marriage. Either on her part again, or a revenge affair by you. 

Consequences or failure. She does the heavy lifting or failure. There is no easy way out of this that works. You are both trying for the easy path.


----------



## Yeswecan

You comforted your WW? Can not fathom why. What consequences will your WW see?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Stop feeling bad for her being a ****-up! She betrayed you and stabbed you in the back in the worst way! And you're going to pat her on the head and say "there there"?? Really??


----------



## sa58

ASK HER WHY IT STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE?
JOB ADVANCEMENT? WHY HIM?
I do not believe her only 5 times.
Have the PI get a lie detector set up.
As everyone here has told you 
AS LONG AS SHE IS IN CONTACT
WITH HIM IT WILL START 
AGAIN IT STOPPED AND 
THEN STARTED AGAIN 
THIS TIME DID'T IT
I DO NOT BELIEVE SHE WAS FALLING
IN LOVE. SHE SAW NO FUTURE
IN WHAT EVER SHE WAS TRYING 
TO GET. AGAIN WHY HIM


----------



## sa58

SHE SAYS SHE STARTED TO FALL IN LOVE?
SHE HAD SEX WITH HIM WITHOUT ANY 
FEELING> JUST LAID DOWN AND HAD 
SEX. IS HE REALLY HOT? IF NOT WHY?

Do not allow the predator to pull its
prey back into the fog.

LIE DETECTOR TEST 
REMEMBER IT ENDED AND THEN STARTED
AGAIN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SURE
IT DOES NOT START AGAIN?

TELL HER SHE NEEDS A NEW JOB NOW
ONLY WAY TO INSURE NO CONTACT


----------



## SentHereForAReason

sa58 said:


> SHE SAYS SHE STARTED TO FALL IN LOVE?
> SHE HAD SEX WITH HIM WITHOUT ANY
> FEELING> JUST LAID DOWN AND HAD
> SEX. IS HE REALLY HOT? IF NOT WHY?
> 
> Do not allow the predator to pull its
> prey back into the fog.
> 
> LIE DETECTOR TEST
> REMEMBER IT ENDED AND THEN STARTED
> AGAIN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SURE
> IT DOES NOT START AGAIN?
> 
> TELL HER SHE NEEDS A NEW JOB NOW
> ONLY WAY TO INSURE NO CONTACT


So much that needs to be done here (by here) but you nailed it. First step that is an absolute deal breaker other than no contact is she must change jobs ... ASAP and the HR department needs to know why ASAP.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week.
> 
> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> 
> I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


Now push for transparency — passwords and passcodes to EVERYTHING.

No more FaceID or fingerprint access unless it’s configured to allow access to your face/fingerprint as well.

You need to get your hands on the phone and perform data recovery like five minutes ago — last month.

Also, she has to go no contact with OM. This will obviously mean a new job. Hell, you should probably get one as well.

If she refuses ANY of this, it’s straight to divorce.

Again, you have a lawyer, right? If not, get one ASAP. The somewhat unique nature of all of this might mean that you’re able to go after this guy (in terms of a lawsuit).

What’s your plan regarding exposure to OM’s wife? I wouldn’t do anything rash — in fact I wouldn’t do anything before talking with an attorney.


----------



## stro

Did she say WHY? And Why Grandpa?! Also, how remorseful was she? How did SHE reassure and comfort YOU?


----------



## Marc878

Her affair started and stopped twice. If they have contact it could happen again. You need a plan to eliminate him from your life. 

Better get real quick. The answer will be her phone (if the texts are deleted do a recovery) Or her secret email account. Better get the evidence now or your chance will be gone forever. 

The enabling friend or anyone else has to be eliminated permanently as well.

Your strength got you where you are. You back off now you will live to regret it.

They were going to destroy you, your family and future. Better take the measures you need now you'll not have the oppurtuntiy later.


----------



## Marc878

Don't offer R or anything at this time.

If you're smart you'll decide if this is something you can live with. 

She can't go back and un**** him now.

Many regret staying later so don't make this mistake.

Good luck


----------



## stro

Also, It seems like you likely have a strong desire to recover your marriage. If that’s true, go to marriage counseling, go to individual counseling. That has to be a condition. There is a MOUNTAIN of work to do. A lot of it will depend on how much of that work SHE is willing to do.


----------



## seadoug105

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her.



See this is where i feel the need to check-out on this thread (not yet...)... Mostly because i cant shake the **** out of you until you wake up!


Why the **** are you comforting her??? She wrong you! You should be the one hurting! only now it seems like you are comforting her for the loss of her "almost love".... *You know, the one she CUCKOLDED you with...* albeit you weren't willing part of it but with the path you are on (especially with the "its okay i forgive you" cuddle session last night) it WILL happen again, and probable happened before!

Oh yeah, you need to DNA test you kid... and make sure she knows it will let her know you have no trust in her and it may scare her into telling you more.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week.
> 
> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> 
> I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


OK Scuba. I am the commenter that advised you to let her talk. I am glad you took my advice. I think that you now have enough to make your decision. You seem to be leaning toward R, and I am not sure why, but there are reasons either way.

So she told you some stuff, and it is partially lies, but I have some ideas what is the possible truth within the lies. First, whether it was 5 times or 50 doesn't matter, it is just as bad either way. The 5 is probably right.

The first thing I don't believe is that she ended it in February. I believe she was dumped by Grandpa, possibly for the second time, in February. I think the Victorias Secret purchase is confirmation of her being in love with him. Her saying she was just then falling in love with him is a lie... she was already in love with him, due to multiple sexual encounters... but her saying that she was falling for him is confirmation for you that, in her mind, being in love with someone so much older is very real possibility. (As I said before, for me this is a real head scratcher.) I think this leads to two possibilities (1) She started having sex with him for career advancement and slowly fell in love with him, or (2) She fell in love with him first and then started having sex with him. Women usually dont have cheating sex just for the fun of sex like a man would, they usually have to have feelings first.

The pause in December may have been due to the holidays, schedule, etc. Or maybe Grandma found out with her own "gut feeling".

She said they did it when you were not around. This confirms for you that it was not a one-time drunken mistake but a deliberate act of betrayal. She did not claim that she was coerced by Grandpa, as an excuse. This confirms for you that her betrayal was a willing act.

Therefore, and I am sorry Scuba, she has effectively terminated your marriage. Put a fork in it. Her vows are void. You should file for divorce to make it official. Your little family is now even smaller. You must think carefully about the future and particularly about your daughter. You need no longer care about your STBXW. If you are going to file on the grounds of infidelity, don't have sex with her. You need to figure out whether you can and want to continue working at the company, with Grandpa still around as a reminder of what he did to your family. If you can get another job away from the area, you should consider it. If you leave the company, expose to Grandma and to the CEO and make sure evryone knows, regardless of whether your wife stays working there.

Sorry Scuba_Steve but this situation is really a pile of crap, that no one should have to go through.


----------



## ButtPunch

The next big hurdle.

She has to quit her job or Grandpa quits.

No exceptions.


----------



## Windwalker

Sorry Steve, but it's more like it was "only 5 times" a week, there's no way you will convince me otherwise. It would take Jesus himself to convince me of that.

As expected, more BS and lies.

And if you haven't put 2+2 together, they supposedly of ****ed when you or her were out of town. Which means this was a willful betrayal.

You need to get your ass in to see a lawyer and move towards a divorce. You will be eating **** sandwiches for the rest of your marriage if you R.


----------



## Evinrude58

So, per her own admission:

If she was scared she was falling in love with him, she ended it—— this says to me that in her mind it is ok to **** other men as long as she doesn’t love them... that’s lower to me than her saying that she messed up and fell in love with the guy and that’s how it happened.


You are almost sure to have a serial cheater on your hands if you stay.

And I also don’t have a clue why you felt the need to comfort HER. Hell, I’d have been the screwed uppest in the head as ever could get after hearing that.
Maybe that’s why you did it. Bad move. Now she thinks it’s going to be rug swept without consequence for sure, and without consequences she’ll do this again, especially if she’s a reasonably attractive woman—- they get lots of opportunities.

You haven’t seen a lawyer or filed. Wora possible mistake. At least have her file charges on the guy with HR. If she won’t—- she still values him over you.
Demand it as a condition of staying married t her. He’ll get booted as he deserves and you won’t have to worry about him working there and banging your wife AGAIN.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week.
> 
> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> 
> I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


PeePaw called it off in November because the holidays were coming and the times together

would have been limited. So no.... PeePaw broke it off, at least that time. May have the 2nd time due to

her wanting him to leave his W. There's more story to be dug.

The time you came up behind her to hug her and she pushed you away.... was that during the time

they were "separated" or together? God knows she can't cheat on her AP with her own H!

You're getting trickle truth..... I agree with Nucking Futs, polygraph. 

And why in the hell were you comforting her? Have you already forgotten about the stomach tightening up,

can't eat, can't sleep, can't think straight feelings? Was she there to comfort you?

Oh... she was the cause of the distress..... I'd walk..... because you haven't heard the full story.

I'm not a CWI regular.... has a WS come 100% clean on the first go-around? My guess is no.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

S_S, most people are saying to get the Hell out and as fast as you can and I agree but let's look at this from the standpoint of you wanting to reconcile. Seriously. If you want to make things work, if that's even possible, please listen!

#1 - she has to quit
#2 - you have to inform HR department of what's going on. This going unknown will create a HORRIBLE dynamic at work for anyone that works there. Chances are, your wife is not the first. By doing this you will basically be creating a new set of eyes for yourself while she is still there
#3 - his wife has to know

Your WW will be madder than Hell about this but man, if you don't if it's not over now, it will be.

And even if you do want to reconcile, you have to see a lawyer, NOW. You would be doing yourself a terrible disservice if you don't find out what your legal options are. I know losing your wife is the worst thing you can possibly imagine, even after you have found out what she has done/is doing, I have been there but imagine how much worse it could be that you not only lose your wife but after that get kicked in the A%% financially and add insult to injury.


----------



## Herschel

Isn’t this kinda the theme of Big Daddy where you got your name from? Girlfriend left him for an older man?


----------



## Chaparral

Has she told Posom you know? 
5 Times means 10-20 in cheater speak.
Time to talk to his wife. Reason? They cannot work together under any circumstances.
Love? Regular sex with someone always leads to feelings of love. How was your love life compared to the timeline.
And the grand question is “Why did she say she did it?”


----------



## oldtruck

Time to expose the OMW, Human Resources Director, CEO, Board of Directors.
Stating how are they going to handle this sexual harassment of your WW by
a superior. Close wit that you will be waiting for their reply.

Do not let your WW or you sign anything. Wait for their response. While
doing that you need to hire a employment/labor law lawyer to do a follow
up contact with the company.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I think the confession and timeline was a big step forward. Almost definitely, she still lied, when it started, when it ended, how frequent, if they used protection, etc., etc., etc. 

What I found most disturbing is the reason she ended the affair. She said it was because she was falling in love with with him. I figured she only slept with him because she fell in love with him. Because what other reasons for having sex are there than falling in love? (1) she found him sexual lying attractive, that old fossil? Eww!! (2) or she did it for favors, either work-related or luxuries, like expensive lunches or gifts of jewelry? What is her price? 

Next most disturbing is that she broke it off in November than started it up again? Why? And also, if she didn't start it back up, you'd never know. Which makes me wonder, how many other affairs has she had?

What do you think, Steve? About her reasons in the first place, why she went back for seconds, and possibility of other indiscretions?


----------



## Chaparral

What did you mean she had morning dates with him. Another big lie is they only had sex while one of you were out of town. Rember the day she was gone for hours and when she got pissed and left. In all those months there were times when she did it with him and came home to you and kissed you.

No cheater that I can remember has ever told the truth right off the bat. You can accept its the old man and they had sex a lot. Everything else needs to be verified with a poly and she has to be 100% transparent. 

Simply, let her know upfront that you want all the truth now or everyone including his wife will know everything. 

You have all the cards you need so play them wisely and ruthlessly reconcilliation or divorce.

With the current epedimic of men contracting oral cancer from HPV SHE MUST BE TESTED and you too. There is a vaccine and you need to
look into that ASAP.


----------



## sa58

SCUBA STEVE

I have said it before I can be blunt sometimes.
Now is one of those times.

Glad you are making steps in whatever direction.

Ask her 
WHY HIM?
HOW DID IT START?
WHY DID SHE HAVE SEX WITH THE
OLD MAN IF SHE HAD NO FEELINGS
FOR HIM?

LIE DETECTOR TEST IS A MUST
STD TEST IS A MUST
NEW JOB FOR HER AND YOU IS A MUST
NO CONTACT WITH OM IS A MUST
IF THE AFFAIR STOPPED THEN STARTED
BACK, IT WILL START AGAIN
YOU ARE NOT THERE YET SIR

ARE YOU GOING TO CONTACT GRANDMA
DO NOT THINK THIS IS OVER YET
IF SHE SAYS IT STARTED FOR THIS
AND THAT REASON BETWEEN BOTH OF 
YOU (YOUR NOT HERE< YOUR TRIPS ETC)
THEN MC IS A MUST.

AGAIN WHY DID IT START AND WHY 
DID SHE JUST LAY DOWN AND HAVE
SEX WITH GRANDPA?

MAYBE HE ENDED IT 
SHE WAS FALLING IN LOVE

SHE WANTED TO REPLACE GRANDMA!!
HE DID NOT WANT HER REMEMBER

"YOU JUST WANT ME FOR SEX"
THAT IS WHAT GRANDPA WANTED
AND BY HER OWN ADMISSION SHE
WANTED MORE!!

PAY ATTENTION TO THE ADVISE HERE
LIE DETECTOR TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## OutofRetirement

Despite my concerns about coming completely clean, her motivation for the initial affair and the relapse, and if there were other affairs she got away with, I think it was a very good step. It is a negotiation, and she blinked first. It's OK that you rewarded her, but never forget, always remember, it was because you were strong and unwavering. If you had given in, you'd still know nothing. 

It's OK to reward her for good behavior, but if you want anything else on the future, being weak will get you steamroller. She will not give mercy and accede to your requests just because she loves you or because it's the right thing to do. That is a lesson I hope you learn. There may come a time for you being softer on her, but in the next six months, be careful. She still is in selfish mode.


----------



## sa58

When not if you set up a lie detector test
we can help you with possible questions
Do this for your own piece of mind. 
Do not look back on this time and always
wonder WAS SHE TELLING ME THE TRUTH
AND WAS HE THE ONLY ONE AND WILL SHE
DO IT AGAIN? 

I THINK THERE IS A LOT MORE
YOU DO NOT KNOW YET

TRICKLE TRUTH HAS STARTED!!!

MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Wow...Finally read all 54 pages. But the one thing I keep seeing is this is all about "her". Where does she acknowledge your pain? Where does the remorse for emasculating you fit in? 

You were Hypergamied....Traded up for someone of "higher stature". She was sooo confidant, she even had the workmates involved. Then after the octogenarian got his well aged orgasm, he is moving on to greener pastures. And now she monkey branches back to you. (Love for you, love for the "little family"). Can you say Plan B?

You are absolutely plan B. 10 yrs. in a company has more "husbands rights" than you do.... You deserve ALOT better than that. I get she wants to R, but take a 30,000ft. view of it. She is settling on you. NOT cherishing you. Thats a deal breaker for me...


----------



## OutofRetirement

Next steps:

1 Start looking for a new job

2 Ask her if she will give you proof of her claims. If she will give you the phone to recover deleted texts. If not, would she take a poly.

3 Who is the toxic confidante? Who else encouraged her?

4 Ask her what she will be doing to make you believe she won't start up again with grandpa? Will she block him? Does she think leaving that job is a good idea if it makes you feel better? Should other man's wife be told? Should other man's boss be told? 

Ask her some questions like that, don't just give her demands, by asking you will get to see where her head is at. I think you'll find that she still is in very selfish mode. You will know she is remorseful when she actively starts asking what she can do to make you feel better, not just what the minimum she has to do to placate you. 

5 I think you're afraid of telling other man's wife because of your job situation. But I think you should make him accountable. He used work time and resources to have an inappropriate subordinate and he cheated on his wife. You should report that to both his boss and his wife. At the least. 

6 Toxic confidante and any other encourages must go.

I don't believe demands are as effective as a request. You can't make her, but you can decide if you want to stay with her or not based on her behavior and actions. Frame it that way. It's her decision and you hope she allows you to stay with her. Her behavior and actions should so far are not enough.


----------



## Marc878

Cheaters lie a lot. Most betrayed spouses want badly to believe.

Don't be surprised as you dig deep that your wife was just a piece of ass for grandpa and he dumped her.

She may have been planning a future with him. 

Better did deep so you know the full truth. Like everyone is saying you never get the full truth upfront.

Do it now. Don't wait!!!!!


----------



## Gabriel

Steve, GREAT job! You made her sit down and tell you "everything". There is likely more, but you have way more information now than you ever would have received just waiting for it.

How was she, emotionally? Was she upset, crying, begging, etc.? Or was she kind of cold and mechanical about it?

Honestly, if she isn't crying or totally freaking out, then she isn't at the remorse stage yet. To get her there, you need to go pretty cold. Not mean, just cold. You need to show with your actions that this is a MAJOR deal and something you need to process before you touch her, comfort her, etc. It's her job to comfort YOU!! Not the other way around.

Again, no need to be mean, but you need to send a clear message that this is devastating news and that your marriage is on the verge of collapse, and you need to think about whether you can survive this terrible betrayal.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther.


She may be minimizing other aspects of her affair but she’s obviously isn’t minimizing when she tells you the above.

You wife fits the usual pattern. Women tend to feel that the sex act is less important than the relationship. She had no intention of ever leaving you so the sex was unimportant. When she started falling in love with grandpa she realized that it might damage the marriage (relationship) and she would be tempted to leave you.

I would pin her down now on that subject. That she can have grandpa as far as you’re concerned. You will divorce her and she can be happy with him.

You don’t want to be the booby prize she was stuck with because of your daughter. You don't want grandpa to be the soul mate she pines away for. i.e If only she had met him before she met you.

If you what to mess grandpa up tell him that he's welcomed to your wife and you hope that they will have a happy life together.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well my wife has confessed. She has told me everything, at least thats what she is saying. She did give a time line not as detailed as I wanted but given she only had a few hours to put together I thought it was decent. The affair is with the grandpa she admitted to it. The affair started in late August and end for the first time in November. They both continued the affair agin in January and she ended it in February. Her reason for ending the affair was she felt she was falling in love with grandpa OM. It started to scare her so she cut it off before it can go any farther. According to her time line they only meet for sex 5 times. The first time being in September last time was in February. They only had sex when either she or I were out of town. Did go on a lot of “dates” usually during morning or lunch at least once week.
> 
> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> 
> I’m try be back after work to answer some questions.


So you comforted her for:

Having an affair. 

Having sex with another guy. 

And falling in love with another guy. 

This is great. What will you do the next time? Give her your blessing so she doesn’t feel bad about it.

One thing is for sure, she is not in love with you.


----------



## Marc878

Don't be surprised to find that she had him in your home even in your bed while you were out of town.

You have a lot to think about. 

Don't rugsweep anything


----------



## GusPolinski

Herschel said:


> Isn’t this kinda the theme of Big Daddy where you got your name from? Girlfriend left him for an older man?


Yeah, but he had a 5-year plan.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Scuba Steve, as I have said before there is still much more she needs to tell you. How did it start ? Who initiated ? As others have said her starting to fall in love is bull$h!t. 

She started ****ing him for a reason - this reason, above all else, needs to be clarified (with or without poly). If he initiated, then he was the predator. If she did, then she did it for career progress reasons. You don't just go after a man old enough to be your father or even grandfather for no reason. If he is the predator, he needs to be destroyed.


What is this rubbish about "if" he quits his job - you should go to HR immediately. Get a lawyer and issue them with a warning relating to alienation of affection etc. Destroy his world. Tell his wife, family, colleagues, friends etc. Expose, expose, expose. Get him fired!

Make no mistake - she is the enemy and is playing you like a cheap fiddle at the moment. Take control. You have done well to get her to speak - now is the time to act. However, do ask her to clarify why she did it in the first place and how it started.


----------



## sa58

And the predator lures her prey
back into her arms. She promises
love and affection, no more lies
no more truth, no sign of shame.
She knows he will follow, she knows
how to play the game. She knows how to
use his love for her against him.

Steve she gave you some trickle truth
Next she will blame you for everything.
If you had done this and been there
then she would not have cheated.
Sex this weekend no doubt about it
You will slowly stop pursuing the truth.
You will because you are scared of 
the truth. 

You can simply verify by lie detector test.
Do not feel sorry for her.WHY she cheated
nobody forced her to do this. Why lay down
and have sex with an old man when she has a 
loving young husband at home. The affair started
and then stopped. Then it started again. If she does 
not find a new job it will start again. 

Ask how many posters here on TAM really and truly
believe her. You are now in a position of power.
You listened so far do not stop now. I fear you may
because you love her and fear the truth. 

You have paid the price of pain and some 
shame. What price has she paid so far ?
Unless she does she will believe the 
next one will be the same.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know probably shouldn’t but I believe her. She looked like she was honest and genuine. We didn’t have sex with her but we did share the same bed again. Part me felt bad for her so I wanted to comfort her. I did tell her I wanted a more detailed time line and something to back up what she’d saying.
> .


She looked like she was honest and genuine? Didn't she seem honest and genuine while she was f*cking grandpa? She is a liar and a deceiver isn't she? She was falling in love with him? WTF man? This was only the FIRST conversation. I have no doubt she is holding back a lot more. 

And why the hell are you comforting her? She should be focused on your well being.


----------



## ABHale

She flipped it on Steve. She made herself out as the victim because she is married to Steve, so she couldn’t fall in love with her boss. 

Steve you should tell her she can go a head and fall in love with him, that you will give her the freedom by divorcing her.


----------



## Evinrude58

If this story is true...,,,

The more I read, the more I think that.,.,

1) op had no idea she was having an affair from aug to nov. a woman who is not a serial cheater would be distant and give op zero sex and be angry all the time

2) she went back for more after he dumped her the first time

3). She says she only stopped because she was falling for the guy

4). She didn’t blow up in a blubbery mess and confess, acted like it wa no big deal and OP should just get over it.

SHE is almost undoubtedly a serial cheater, and this is the first one he caught her at.

I’ll bet she banged tattoo guy, and many others.

File. As stated, she only responds to a strong stance. Crush her world. Sue company over OM. 
After you get things straight, divorce her.


----------



## Gabriel

ABHale said:


> She flipped it on Steve. She made herself out as the victim because she is married to Steve, so she couldn’t fall in love with her boss.
> 
> Steve you should tell her she can go a head and fall in love with him, that you will give her the freedom by divorcing her.


Not sure where you get your first paragraph from. Feels like you are projecting. 

Wife started having real feelings, and realized she was in too deep, cut it off. Hmmmm......

My theory from the beginning is that it was GRANDPA that cut it off, and Steve is a de facto Plan B. That might still be the case here. Grandpa screws younger girl, has a lot of fun, then, oops, younger girls starts to get attached. Time for grandpa to cut bait. Now broken hearted younger girl has to make the best of it with Steve, realizing her "mistake" was thinking Grandpa would end whatever he's got going on to be with her permanently. More curtly, her mistake was thinking she was more than a piece of ass to him.

Now she's hoping to hit the reset button, and pull her life back together. But that takes cooperation from Steve.

If I'm Steve, I make this very hard for her, make her pass like 100 tests, before I consider staying with her.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

why would you give 100 tests for a plan B instigator? Thats like looking for a consumer report for a 25 year old car with no battery..... Kinda pointless. Get out of infidelity. And look to the future with a partner that cherishes you....


----------



## JohnA

Couple of thoughts: 

First, am I mistaken but did her grandparents play a primary role in raising her, if so why? I note you mentioned her mom and her sister, but not her dad. This tells me she was raised in a broken home which at time was chaotic. Outcome Daddy issues, learning never be truthful.

She stopped because she started to get "feelings". Hmmm, how much did YOU pay him? Switch it around, how much emotion does a John invest in a 100 dollar prostitute? 

This is a yes or no question! Have you read some of the individuals who have posted on, your thread, threads? Start with @drifting on threads.

Then read @MovingFrwrd thread. 

Finally, there comes time(s) in life you need to let go and say to yourself "I am in limbo, let go and just do what people I trust say to do". I suggest you are at that point.


----------



## sa58

She came home in a bad mood
You tried to hug her. 

"I ONLY WANTED SEX FROM HER"

This statement alone screams that 
Grandpa cut it off not her. She wanted
to replace Grandma.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THIS
I DO NOT THINK SO

ANY UPDATES STEVE?
Sorry for posting so much but I have 
a feeling this might get rug swept
And in the future Steve will see 
the truth TOO LATE


----------



## bandit.45

Seven month long affair and they only had sex five times?

And you honestly believe that? 

Good luck ScubaSteve. I’m not wasting any more time here.

You’re going to rugsweep the **** out of this.


----------



## Gabriel

sa58 said:


> This statement alone screams that
> Grandpa cut it off not her. She wanted
> to replace Grandma.
> 
> AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THIS
> I DO NOT THINK SO


Yup. Been saying this all along. And...no way it was only 5 times. Though, not sure that really matters. Screwing someone 3 times, 5 times, 10 times, who cares.


----------



## Malaise

Yep.

Lying.


----------



## Chaparral

There isn’t enough info from Scuba to ascertain his wife’s motives yet. When he mentioned gramps you have to be thinking daddy issues. You also have to be thinking gold digger. Since she was so enthralled by tattoo boss you have to wonder about having more than one affair. 

What we do know is she will trickle truth. ALL cheaters do to try and soften the blow. 

It is very telling that she claims to have started falling in love. Especially if this is true, she simply started having sex with him for kicks and giggles or to play him. Why would you pick an old man for kicks and giggles unless there was another upside. Especially one that supposedly no one likes. Of course there are always men women find attractive that men think are worthless as horse crap.

Scuba you have your work cut out for you. Remember the golden rule of dealing with a cheater. Take nothing she says as real. EVERYTHING she says has to be verified. You will know when she is lying because you will see her lips moving. Fortunately, liars can rarely keep their lies straight.


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Yup. Been saying this all along. And...no way it was only 5 times. Though, not sure that really matters. Screwing someone 3 times, 5 times, 10 times, who cares.


It matters because it’s another lie.


----------



## Marc878

Women don't often have sex without an emotional attachment.


----------



## 3putt

Marc878 said:


> Women don't often have sex without an emotional attachment.


Or a financial one.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Ok a lot of questions I’m going to try to answer them all.

Why did I comfort her, I don’t really know why. Even though she cheated part me still love her. It’s not something I can switch on and off. I really do love this women. She was my first real relationship and only girl I’ve ever loved. Seeing her cry and in pain makes me want to comfort her. I guess it’s second nature to me now. 

Now if what she’s told me is the complete truth. I can’t know for sure. I might love her but I’m not stupid. She been lying to me for months chance of her telling me the truth now are slim to none. I told her I need her to prove to me what she says is true anyway she can. I’ve given my original dead to her to have a detailed time line done. 

When it comes to who ended the affair, who knows. Right now that’s not my main priority. But I will find out. 

I haven’t asked the question how and why the affair started. Why with him of all people. I will be asking those questions maybe tonight or tomorrow. 

Also I haven’t asked for her passwords but I will. 

Now I still haven’t decided if I’m going to divorce her or reconcile. If I'm honest it's probably divorce.

I still have to figure out how to handle this at work. Exposing this cause slot of problems not only for me but others as well. A lot of office politics have been happening for the last year and half.

I still plan on telling the OM wife, I’ve already contacted the P.I to get me that info. 

I think that answer most of the questions. I haven’t finished reading all the post yet so sorry if a missed any.


----------



## Marc878

Plan it out carefully you only get one chance. Access to all email and her phone. Your PI can get the deleted texts off it. 

Tell her you can't make any decisions until you have all the facts/info.

Go full force and get it now.


----------



## Marc878

No sexual contact!!! I'd still sleep separately.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

JohnA said:


> Couple of thoughts:
> 
> First, am I mistaken but did her grandparents play a primary role in raising her, if so why? I note you mentioned her mom and her sister, but not her dad. This tells me she was raised in a broken home which at time was chaotic. Outcome Daddy issues, learning never be truthful.
> 
> She stopped because she started to get "feelings". Hmmm, how much did YOU pay him? Switch it around, how much emotion does a John invest in a 100 dollar prostitute?
> 
> This is a yes or no question! Have you read some of the individuals who have posted on, your thread, threads? Start with @drifting on threads.
> 
> Then read @MovingFrwrd thread.
> 
> Finally, there comes time(s) in life you need to let go and say to yourself "I am in limbo, let go and just do what people I trust say to do". I suggest you are at that point.


Yes she was mostly raised by her grandparents. Her parents have the most dysfunctional relationship you will ever see. They have divorced and remarried each other a good 5 times. They recently got back together again. Why I know how long that will last. Her home life growing up was beyond chaotic. Her grandparents are the only ones who have her and her sister a stable home.


----------



## Chuck71

Do not allow her to sit in that victim chair. 
Do not allow her to gaslight you.
Do not allow her to blameshift.
Do not allow her to vagina bomb you.

You want explicit details now.... not next week, few days.... because they are important to you.

Did she lie about the timeline? I can bet my farm she did.... she wants to tell you just enough.... 

but not enough to where you will D her. It's just like in the Pacific during WW2. She is betting she can

tell you 25% of what happened disguised as 100%. But the less she tells you the more apt she

is of getting busted. To her...... I'm sorry.... that I got caught and at the moment, I want him to stay....

and if I spill all the beans, I know he will D me. So I will lie 75% and hope he accepts that.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok a lot of questions I’m going to try to answer them all.
> 
> Why did I comfort her, I don’t really know why. *Even though she cheated part me still love her. It’s not something I can switch on and off. I really do love this women. She was my first real relationship and only girl I’ve ever loved. Seeing her cry and in pain makes me want to comfort her. I guess it’s second nature to me now. *
> 
> Now if what she’s told me is the complete truth. I can’t know for sure. I might love her but I’m not stupid. She been lying to me for months chance of her telling me the truth now are slim to none. I told her I need her to prove to me what she says is true anyway she can. I’ve given my original dead to her to have a detailed time line done.
> 
> When it comes to who ended the affair, who knows. Right now that’s not my main priority. But I will find out.
> 
> I haven’t asked the question how and why the affair started. Why with him of all people. I will be asking those questions maybe tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> Also I haven’t asked for her passwords but I will.
> 
> Now I still haven’t decided if I’m going to divorce her or reconcile. If I'm honest it's probably divorced
> 
> I still have to figure out how to handle this at work. Exposing this cause slot of problems not only for me but others as well. A lot of office politics have been happening for the last year and half.
> 
> I still plan on telling the OM wife, I’ve already contacted the P.I to get me that info.
> 
> I think that answer most of the questions. I haven’t finished reading all the post yet so sorry if a missed any.


It's because you're in denial of who she is. Right now you still have her on a pedestal.

Better wake up to reality. She's capable of cheating and lying. Your heart hasn't Synced your brain yet. It's normally a delayed timing but it will come.


----------



## inging

I just read 55 pages. Okay..

I am very sorry. This hits home today because 7 years ago was my Dday and to be honest it still makes me angry.


You some decisions to make. Difficult ones. 

Can you forgive her 

The answer to this is probably yes. In time. Don't mix this up with the next question

Can you continue the marriage? 
Knowing that: 
She bought Victoria's Secret underwear for another man
She used one condom and had sex at least 5 times
She had sex with you after that possibly immediately after.
She gave this man more sexually than she did you. (This is part of the affair deal)
She found him so irresistible she went back after a breakup

So that is the very tip of the iceberg of the sexual stuff. For some guys this is a deal breaker. In our logical minds it shouldn't matter. There is nothing logical about sex though..

If the answer to this is 
"No I can not live with this" today then it will be the same 7 years. 


I am so sorry .


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes she was mostly raised by her grandparents. Her parents have the most dysfunctional relationship you will ever see. They have divorced and remarried each a good 5 times. They recently got back together again. Why I know how long that will last. Her home life growing up was beyond chaotic. Her grandparents are the only ones who have her and her sister a stable home.


Your W was emotionally stunted as a young child. Her actions are starting to make sense now....

not in a good way though.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

As for the tattoo guy, her direct boss. Nothing shows me that anything happened between them. The phone records show minimal contact. The evidence doesn't show My wife to be a serial cheater, could she be maybe but I don't think so.


----------



## Cynthia

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for the tattoo guy, her direct boss. Nothing shows me that anything happened between them. The phone records show minimal contact. The evidence doesn't show My wife to be a serial cheater, could she be maybe but I don't think so.


Of course you don't think she is. Why would you? But the fact remains that her recent behavior shows a propensity to thinking that her behavior is no big deal, which is a hallmark of a cheater. I'm not one to jump on that bandwagon, but I will say in this case it's likely that this is not her first affair. I also think that she probably had something going on with her boss. That is why you got upset and concerned in the first place was her interest in her boss.

As a caution, please keep an open mind and don't jump to any conclusions negative or positive. Look for facts and do not trust a word that comes out of her mouth unless you can verify it with proof.


----------



## Suspicious1

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes she was mostly raised by her grandparents. Her parents have the most dysfunctional relationship you will ever see. They have divorced and remarried each other a good 5 times. They recently got back together again. Why I know how long that will last. Her home life growing up was beyond chaotic. Her grandparents are the only ones who have her and her sister a stable home.


Her parents getting back together a number of 5 times might seem very normal to her.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Suspicious1

Chuck71 said:


> Do not allow her to sit in that victim chair.
> Do not allow her to gaslight you.
> Do not allow her to blameshift.
> Do not allow her to vagina bomb you.
> 
> You want explicit details now.... not next week, few days.... because they are important to you.
> 
> Did she lie about the timeline? I can bet my farm she did.... she wants to tell you just enough....
> 
> but not enough to where you will D her. It's just like in the Pacific during WW2. She is betting she can
> 
> tell you 25% of what happened disguised as 100%. But the less she tells you the more apt she
> 
> is of getting busted. To her...... I'm sorry.... that I got caught and at the moment, I want him to stay....
> 
> and if I spill all the beans, I know he will D me. So I will lie 75% and hope he accepts that.


25% is enough for me to file and start working on me and little girl.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Lostinthought61

Steve does that OM man know that you know, have you called him? is he married and if so are you going to contact his wife or HR?


----------



## Chuck71

3putt said:


> Or a financial one.


That is the reason this even started. She would be willing to leave Steve and have the child 50% if she

was able to be Pee-Paw's new eye candy. Thing she forgot is.... there's a good chance Pee-Paw's W

is eye candy. And she won't give up that title easily. Even if she did / was forced to.. she would rake him

for huge $$$. Which brings me back to Pee-Paw... he spent $ to 1-get what he wanted and 2-her loyalty.

High end call girls are paid big $$$ mostly... to keep their mouth shut.

So no.... Pee-Paw ain't trading in what he already has for a slightly newer one..... not when the older

one will go away with a huge "parting gift."

Steve's post about her childhood really has me leaning in this direction of her intentions


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chuck71 said:


> Your W was emotionally stunted as a young child. Her actions are starting to make sense now....
> 
> not in a good way though.


When I think about she definitely has. My wife I will never win the "wife of the year" reward but as a daughter you probably couldn't as for a better one. She will never admit it but she's always wanted to have her parents approve and I know it hurts that she's never gotten it from them. She tried everything, honors in high school, plus sports, double major in college and She worked a part time job. You name it she tried it.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Lostinthought61 said:


> Steve does that OM man know that you know, have you called him? is he married and if so are you going to contact his wife or HR?


I've answered part of this question already. I can't confirm if the OM knows I haven't told him but my wife might have. He is married and his wife will be informed. As of now I won't do anything at work.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> No sexual contact!!! I'd still sleep separately.


Will do.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> When I think about she definitely has. My wife I will never win the "wife of the year" reward but as a daughter you probably couldn't as for a better one. She will never admit it but she's always wanted to have her parents approve and I know it hurts that she's never gotten it from them. She tried everything, honors in high school, plus sports, double major in college and She worked a part time job. You name it she tried it.


When she faces any trauma or hardship... many times she will regress back to the age she last

was when she felt "safe." They act upon the same impulses they did at that age...

Steve... Do you think Pee-Paw doted on her accomplishments and did not mean for her to

take it so much to heart (yknow....the people you can pay a compliment to and they virtually

fall apart over it)? But when she did, Pee-Paw saw an opening to flirt.... Steve you know where I'm

headed here..... And she developed a connection to him, somewhat like a father figure.

And her emotional pain with her relationship with her father.....was subsided because she 

directed it to Pee-Paw.


----------



## Chuck71

Suspicious1 said:


> 25% is enough for me to file and start working on me and little girl.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I filed for D with my XW and didn't even know if she cheated or not....


----------



## Scuba_Steve

3putt said:


> Or a financial one.


She's good when it comes to money. She makes a pretty good salary plus her dad should leave her more then enough money. Me and OM might make more but we both know who has more.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chuck71 said:


> When she faces any trauma or hardship... many times she will regress back to the age she last
> 
> was when she felt "safe." They act upon the same impulses they did at that age...
> 
> Steve... Do you think Pee-Paw doted on her accomplishments and did not mean for her to
> 
> take it so much to heart (yknow....the people you can pay a compliment to and they virtually
> 
> fall apart over it)? But when she did, Pee-Paw saw an opening to flirt.... Steve you know where I'm
> 
> headed here..... And she developed a connection to him, somewhat like a father figure.
> 
> And her emotional pain with her relationship with her father.....was subsided because she
> 
> directed it to Pee-Paw.



Maybe but does that give her a right to cheat.

I think not.


----------



## inging

Her parents came and went into a relationship. She may believe that you will also follow this tumultuous route of separation and reconciliation .

This need for comfort and tears is manipulation that has worked with you for many years. It is avoidance and if you think back you will probably start to see a pattern. 

Is she prone to temper tantrums?

Want to know if she is lying?
Ask her a question. If she looks straight at your eyes and tells you something it is a lie. This is opposite to people we don't know well. People who are intimate lie straight to your face.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Yes she was mostly raised by her grandparents. Her parents have the most dysfunctional relationship you will ever see. They have divorced and remarried each other a good 5 times. They recently got back together again. Why I know how long that will last. Her home life growing up was beyond chaotic. Her grandparents are the only ones who have her and her sister a stable home.


Oh man, a friend of mine is in the middle of D. His STBXW has major FOO issues.

You may have no clue what you are dealing with. He didn't either but once he took a good hard look he was glad to get out.

So sorry you're having to deal with this ****.

Take care of yourself first


----------



## colingrant

1) The word "only" surprises me regardless if it was your language or hers. Minimizing at best, disrespectful at worst. If it's your language, you have to ask yourself, what's the purpose of using it. It's easy to dismiss a circumstance of semantics, but this isn't one of those times. 

2) You can love her, that doesn't mean you have to console her, as it's possible she hasn't earned it. She sought emotional reassurance from you, but failed to recognize the opportunity to provide you all of the appropriate and heartfelt reassurances that should be bestowed upon a betrayed spouse. 

3) I detect a lack of urgency on her part, which may or may not be notable. Time will tell, but I don't think conclusions can be drawn. BS's sometimes have rehash what they've done and early after DD it wouldn't have taken place as they're in preservation mode only. 

4) Begin thinking ahead the best you can so that you can be prepared for how you're going to handle things that are thrust upon you at a moments notice, like affection, etc. If you don't think ahead, they'll catch you off guard you will lose opportunities to convey non-communicative messages, which are huge in managing the outcome you wish to achieve. 

5) It's easy and normal to seek relief from your pain and the easiest form of it is to rug sweep and minimize stuff. Regardless of what direction you're leaning towards, she's going to ask about reconciliation. You're answer should be something to the effect of..........

I have no idea if or when I can entertain that question, but as I stand here today, I don't have anywhere near enough information to answer it, so I'm not going to or hypothesize. I will give you what I need for "consideration" only. I will provide that to you shortly. In the meantime, you can help yourself TREMENDOUSLY by offering a very, very detailed timeline that fills in gaps that would include things I would not know to ask, but are deemed important. In fact, let's pretend I had the affair, what would you want to know and take it from there. The sooner I have it the better. In the meantime, we will not.......... sleep in the same bed, pretend that things are normal between us, .......................


----------



## JohnA

Steve, 

Please read the threads I mentioned. It's a hard life to live as they have chosen, yet they chose it every day. 

Next read some of Uptown's posts. He usually posts about BPD, which is not what your wife has, but many of the traits a BPD are present in your wife to some degree. Your wife has daddy issues. She will always have daddy issues. Now only question is what will she do about it. To date she has chosen to let it own her. My father was from a broken home. His teen years would have been in the WWII era in which members of a broken home where judged harshly. He owned that and never let that into his wife or children's life. Looking back I realize sometimes he had a look in his eye "I will not be my father! I will not strike out, I will not harm those I love ". 

Do not forget to read "not just friend's".


----------



## Chuck71

Steve..... a little girl will love her daddy, no matter what. Their daddy hung the moon. And maybe at times,

he did, in your Ws eyes. A strong, patient, humble, caring father sets an example for his daughters... as in

what type of man they will grow up and marry. A dad with strong boundaries will teach his daughters

to only date men, with strong boundaries. Whereas... a little girl with a no-show dad.... will grab whatever

crumb he throws at them. And they will grow up and marry a man...just like that. Not every time

but pretty damn often. They will put up with their man smacking them around, emotionally abusing her.

That.....and when their dad mistreats their mom and the little girl too.... they come to think... it's normal.

Chances are she showed you all these red flags early on but you did not pick up on them.... most 24 y/o

people don't. When you're 44.... you can spot them a mile away.... well most can LOL

But you loved her and vowed to help her through all this, just like a loving H should. But Steve.... it's not your

job to fix that for her..... it's HER job. Now you can be her biggest cheerleader, but she has to take the initiative.

After hearing about her childhood..... I really feel bad for her, as a human, and a mother. But not as a W.

She is caught in a tug of war.... between abandonment and engulfment. It's a really horrible

place to be....


----------



## Suspicious1

Chuck71 said:


> I filed for D with my XW and didn't even know if she cheated or not....


So was she actually cheating? I did similar, grabbed my things and left. My good friend's mother told me I should have never left, and make things difficult for her. 
My ex said the same thing I should had never left, but to me tge disrespect was too much.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Suspicious1 said:


> So was she actually cheating? I did similar, grabbed my things and left. My good friend's mother told me I should have never left, and make things difficult for her.
> My ex said the same thing I should had never left, but to me tge disrespect was too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I agree 110%. My D threads are Is it Normal to Fell this Way and Crossroads: Sink or Swim.

They're still on here, just go to my profile.... they're super short... 50 posts and about 140 on the other.


----------



## inging

It is also a time to look at yourself quite hard.

You can not fix this between your selves. If you want to move forward you need to find a trained psychologist that can help both of you. 
I would say Marriage Counsellor but I think you need the wider issues looked at too.

You need to organise your own counselling independently of anything. It simply helps you see things you would otherwise not see.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. No More Mr. Nice Guy! Your consoling her was more for your own feelings than hers. You do not have to be
cruel to her but you do have to be strong for yourself and your child.

2. No More Mr. Nice Guy! She has got to take a polygraph. You will probably get more information in the parking lot before the exam than you have so far.

3. No More Mr. Nice Guy! No contact letter written to the Senior Citizen. He should understand he is on thin ice as far as a sexual harassment suit is concerned. Do not dismiss this so easily. If they, the Assahola and the CEOla, mess with you or her, bring down the Wrath of God. Have it in a Cease and Desist written by your attorney, letter sent to him personally and to his house where Mrs. Assahola might get to read it >

4. No More Mr. Nice Guy! Demand that she resigns the job and gets a great letter of recommendation. Once again, you hold the winning hand. Do not fold!

5. No More Mr. Nice Guy! She has to know that you mean business. She is comparing you to a Trio of Alpha Males, Tattoo Boy, Assahola and CEOla. If you want to fold your tent and go home, fine. They win. 

6. No More Mr. Nice Guy! Mrs. Assahola will take this jerk to the cleaners. Make sure that she learns the full range of what went on here. That is why the polygraph in conjunction with the complete time-line are so important. You want proof positive to give her. He should get his balls in a vice.

7. No More Mr. Nice Guy! When Assahola throws your wife under the bus, that will go a long way in getting her head out of her hindquarters about being in love with him.


----------



## colingrant

The content below is wisdom shared by a wayward spouse and what she would do if she were the husband whom she betrayed. 
-------------------------------------------------------------
If my H had discovered my A 25 years ago while I was still in the fog what should he have done?

1.Say from a position of strength-I am not interested in sharing my wife. He can have you. I'm filing for a separation.

2.Let me know that he was going to DNA the kids, get tested for STD's to show just how much I had destroyed his trust-and how disgusted he was with me

3.Serve me with separation papers.

4.Go on a vacation and dont tell me where or with whom.

5.or/and as part of the 180 make sure there is a possibility I could suspect he was seeing someone else.

This would have shocked me out of my fog, let me see exactly the impact my actions and selfishness have had and experience the consequences for them, allow me to feel what its like to not have your cake, there is no better way to understand the devastation an A has than to experience what it feels like to even suspect your spouse is having one. I know this from experience.

Hindsight is 20/20 and of course I dont really know what would have happened if he'd done that but I suspect it would have forced a come to jesus moment....(to borrow @arbitrators words) Your wife will either be devastated and feel like she has lost her world prompting proper remorse (I think likely) or she could see this as her exit affair and not fight you on it and continue with the guy (it will never work out-he is only providing something your not- you have been providing all the rest)


----------



## Evinrude58

sa58 said:


> She came home in a bad mood
> You tried to hug her.
> 
> "I ONLY WANTED SEX FROM HER"
> 
> This statement alone screams that
> Grandpa cut it off not her. She wanted
> to replace Grandma.
> 
> AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THIS
> I DO NOT THINK SO
> 
> ANY UPDATES STEVE?
> Sorry for posting so much but I have
> a feeling this might get rug swept
> And in the future Steve will see
> the truth TOO LATE


No way in hell she broke it off. Yet another lie on he part


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok a lot of questions I’m going to try to answer them all.
> 
> Why did I comfort her, I don’t really know why. Even though she cheated part me still love her. It’s not something I can switch on and off. I really do love this women. She was my first real relationship and only girl I’ve ever loved. Seeing her cry and in pain makes me want to comfort her. I guess it’s second nature to me now.
> 
> Now if what she’s told me is the complete truth. I can’t know for sure. I might love her but I’m not stupid. She been lying to me for months chance of her telling me the truth now are slim to none. I told her I need her to prove to me what she says is true anyway she can. I’ve given my original dead to her to have a detailed time line done.
> 
> When it comes to who ended the affair, who knows. Right now that’s not my main priority. But I will find out.
> 
> I haven’t asked the question how and why the affair started. Why with him of all people. I will be asking those questions maybe tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> Also I haven’t asked for her passwords but I will.
> 
> Now I still haven’t decided if I’m going to divorce her or reconcile. If I'm honest it's probably divorce.
> 
> I still have to figure out how to handle this at work. Exposing this cause slot of problems not only for me but others as well. A lot of office politics have been happening for the last year and half.
> 
> I still plan on telling the OM wife, I’ve already contacted the P.I to get me that info.
> 
> I think that answer most of the questions. I haven’t finished reading all the post yet so sorry if a missed any.



I think you did the right demanding the timeline and reading above you have a pretty good handle on this all things considered. Keep up the prudence on the gaslighting.

This weekend have her unlock the phone and start comparing the call logs in front of her. Perhaps call the burner phone. If the phone has been wiped note the level of deception.

Look for deleted apps. Etc. If anything has been deleted call her on it and have a PI do a forensics. Watch her reaction. 

As far as work politics aside get a hold of the HR manual ( if any). Those policies are binding in employment law and other law areas. The messed up part is to protect yourself from retribution you may need to inform HR first. You need more than a divorce attorney, you need a employment harassment law attorney. Be careful with this. 

Glad to hear the OMs wife is top of the list. 

So do you think she is trying to save her job or her marriage? Have you exposed to her family yet?


----------



## Marc878

Hate to bring it up but that old geezer could have been anywhere. Escorts, etc.

You probably should get STD testing. I doubt they always used condoms.

Don't take a chance with your health.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Np her grand parents had nothing to do 
with her cheating.Did her sister go out and 
buy sexy outfits and screw any old men?
She had a loving husband at home. When 
you saw that she was upset you tried to 
hug her and she pushed you away.

Her family sounds like they have a lot
of issues. HER TOO In the future if she
gets upset or anything else will she
turn to Grandpa again or to you?

Do not let her blame shift this to
grandparents death or her family issues.
She should have been and did get your
approval first. If she has all of this crap
going on family divorced five times and 
everything else what has and will happen
in the future. Has she gotten checked for stds
Tell her you want her to before you will
even become intimate. (I WOULD NOT)

She may have been your first true love
but is it really love for her. She sounds like 
she will go back to Grandpa or maybe the 
tattoo boss. She may think since the way
her family is that cheating is normal as well
as divorce and remarriage.

I still and have said it to many times that
Grandpa broke it off not her. 

Think about what you have all ready gone 
through because of her in this short amount 
of time. Imagine a life time of this.Do not allow
your child to grow up in this type of situation.
If you do she may turn out the same way. 

I know how a bad childhood can harm 
a child but she has you and she betrayed 
you for an old geezer. He is still there.
Be careful because if this keeps going 
on. You and her having to deal with her
affair she may turn back to him.

I hope you divorce her and her screwed
up family. If she had such a problem
getting dads approval then she should have been
thinking a great marriage would have been
one of the things he might have like. 

Considering how he and mom screwed theirs up


----------



## sa58

Steve

YOU LOVE HER IT SHOWS
BUT DOES SHE KNOW 
WHAT LOVE IS?

LOVE HER BUT DO NOT STAY
BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU
CAN SAVE HER> ONLY
SHE CAN SAVE HERSELF

I HAVE SEEN TO MANY
GOOD FRIENDS TRY AND
SAVE SOMEONE AT 32
HER PERSONALITY
MAY BE JUST WHO SHE 
IS>
I UNDERSTAND HOW HARD
OFFICE POLITICS ARE
ESPECIALLY WITH THIS
ON YOUR MIND NOW

DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR
LIFE AND DAUGHTERS
TRYING TO SAFE AND FIX
WHAT EVER IS GOING ON
WITH HER.


----------



## Edmund

@sa58 You might want to check the caps lock key on your keyboard - I think maybe it is stuck on.


----------



## sa58

Sorry it was but maybe he will get the message
about not trying to save her.

Thanks again been a busy day
grand kids are here. Time to 
spoil them some more.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Scuba Steve now is the time you need to be at your most level headed and have your eyes wide open. Bull$h!t filter must be set to max.

Why on Earth would you not raise hell at work?!?!?!? You are trying to preserve office politics ?!?!?!? Really?!?!? Some senior old fart at work ****s your wife over a seven month period and more than likely other people know, showing him to be the "better" man and he goes home to his old wife with a smirk on his face, and you worry about office politics?!?!? Destroy him and do it asap!

You have now pointed out that she will be financially well off even if she loses her job - all the more reason to not hesitate - they might both get fired and that will be more than OK!

She needs to not only understand that she has destroyed this marriage but now has you questioning her morality or sanity or both? Morality if she slept with him for career advancement (that is financial gain) - we know what we call women who do that don't we? Sanity, if she slept with him because she found an old, wrinkly man attractive enough to sleep with and then (and this is the killer) start to fall in love with. Someone she knows has no character because he is sleeping with a married woman and using his position to enable it.

In summary she needs to understand that in addition to being a lying, disrespectful, cheating person, she has got you wondering if she is mentally unstable or a prostitute (or both).

Do not hesitate to destroy his world and inform his wife asap. He did not hesitate with your wife. As for her, she still has a lot of info to provide and a lot of coming clean to do. You have only the tip of the iceberg and she is playing you at the moment. Get the hell out of the bed with her - and straighten up and fly right (forget all these romantic notions you have of loving her and needing to comfort her - Jesus H Christ!).


----------



## manwithnoname

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok a lot of questions I’m going to try to answer them all.
> 
> Why did I comfort her, I don’t really know why. Even though she cheated part me still love her. It’s not something I can switch on and off. I really do love this women. She was my first real relationship and only girl I’ve ever loved. Seeing her cry and in pain makes me want to comfort her. I guess it’s second nature to me now.
> 
> Now if what she’s told me is the complete truth. I can’t know for sure. I might love her but I’m not stupid. She been lying to me for months chance of her telling me the truth now are slim to none. I told her I need her to prove to me what she says is true anyway she can. I’ve given my original dead to her to have a detailed time line done.
> 
> When it comes to who ended the affair, who knows. Right now that’s not my main priority. But I will find out.
> 
> I haven’t asked the question how and why the affair started. Why with him of all people. I will be asking those questions maybe tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> Also I haven’t asked for her passwords but I will.
> 
> Now I still haven’t decided if I’m going to divorce her or reconcile. *If I'm honest it's probably divorce.
> *
> I still have to figure out how to handle this at work. Exposing this cause slot of problems not only for me but others as well. A lot of office politics have been happening for the last year and half.
> 
> I still plan on telling the OM wife, I’ve already contacted the P.I to get me that info.
> 
> I think that answer most of the questions. I haven’t finished reading all the post yet so sorry if a missed any.


Then why haven't you consulted with a lawyer yet?


----------



## Chaparral

Scuba_Steve said:


> When I think about she definitely has. My wife I will never win the "wife of the year" reward but as a daughter you probably couldn't as for a better one. She will never admit it but she's always wanted to have her parents approve and I know it hurts that she's never gotten it from them. She tried everything, honors in high school, plus sports, double major in college and She worked a part time job. You name it she tried it.


Ask her when she found someone that loves her and would give his life to save her, she couldn’t work that hard to win and keep your approval. 

Ask her why her family meant no more than her parents family did to them.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> Maybe but does that give her a right to cheat.
> 
> I think not.


Neither do I..... cheating is a deal breaker for me... PERIOD. Screw the whys....

I'm just sharing the whys.... or most logical whys. Of course you want to know why but you will most

likely not get the full truth on "why" from her. Truth told... she may not even know why.

If you feel you are walking away anyway.... it may not be as important to you.

But if you are riding the fence on staying or bolting, of course you want to know.

The polygraph would cut out a lot. Make an appointment, do not tell her. Make a "date night"

and pull into the parking lot. Then tell her you are requesting a polygraph. Ask regular members of CWI

how many times they have seen "parking lot confessions"

I'm just here to give advice and offer support either way you go....

Get full timeline before polygraph...


----------



## Chaparral

One of the first things she has to do is get individual counseling. It’s common on these boards for cheaters to have family of origin issues. With her actions I was assuming as much as soon as you mentioned her affair partner Gramps. I also suspected childhood abuse and still do. Yes, counseling is a definite priority.

If she suggests marriage counseling that would be a waste of time at this point.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for the tattoo guy, her direct boss. Nothing shows me that anything happened between them. The phone records show minimal contact. The evidence doesn't show My wife to be a serial cheater, could she be maybe but I don't think so.


Steve was her last trip with her direct boss? I thought this was the case. 

The open box of condoms was in the travel bag she used for that trip. 

Like you said, you can’t trust a thing she is telling you. 

You also can’t trust the way she is acting either. She told you straight out that she falling in love with the old guy. How can someone fall in love with someone else? If they are already in love with you. 

Are you able to fall for another woman loving your wife like you do? 

Then why was your wife able to?

Your wife isn’t in love with you, that is why she was able to cheat. Like you said she will do anything to save her reputation. This includes she current actions with you. If not because the guilt of what she has done, she has not guilt about it. It’s to save her reputation, that is it nothing more. 

If she felt guilty for her actions she would have come to you and confessed everything. I have seen wives and husbands on this and other forums confess their actions with real remorse. They have taken full responsibility for their cheating and bend over backwards to show that they want the relationship still. They break ALL contact the the OM/OW’s even if that means finding another job with out been asked. They want nothing to do with the person that about destroyed their life. 

Your wife is doing none of this. 

She lied and is still lying to you. 

She is playing the victim. 

She is still working with the OM/‘s like it’s nothing. 

She has no guilt for what she has done. 

Here you are not even protecting your future or that of you child. 

So what happens the next business trip she is to go on? I guess with her job she is required to go on these with the OM at times.

Wake up and look at what is going on before you loose everything. 

Would your wife destroy your life in a divorce to save her reputation?


----------



## Thor

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for the tattoo guy, her direct boss. Nothing shows me that anything happened between them. The phone records show minimal contact. The evidence doesn't show My wife to be a serial cheater, could she be maybe but I don't think so.


There's a good movie called "Up In the Air" about a man (played by George Clooney) who travels all the time for work. The movie is all about how some people live their personal lives on the road, or at least have a separate life while traveling. As an airline pilot I can vouch for how this is true _for some people_. It's the "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" mentality, and a lot of convention goers or wedding party goers have it.

I don't recommend you watch this movie for at least a year, but others here whose nerves are no longer raw might enjoy it.

The point is your wife could well have taken advantage of her travel to have flings.


----------



## Betrayedone

He is going to fold like a worn paper dollar........you watch


----------



## Thor

Marc878 said:


> Oh man, a friend of mine is in the middle of D. His STBXW has major FOO issues.
> 
> You may have no clue what you are dealing with. He didn't either but once he took a good hard look he was glad to get out.
> 
> So sorry you're having to deal with this ****.
> 
> Take care of yourself first


YES!!!

I look back and am so glad I am out of that relationship. But that doesn't mean I don't still care about her. She is my kids' mother and my grandchildren's grandmother. I feel sorry for the little girl my xw was once, who had her bright future destroyed by adults she trusted. This does not excuse her behavior as an adult. 

Scuba-Steve, whatever bad things happened to your stbxw as a child are terrible and if you feel sad for her it is a testament to your good heart. But it does not mean you in any way are obligated to put up with her bad behavior and bad choices. You should not accept the abuse being passed onto you. She probably has little to no understanding she is abusing you or that her childhood has taught her very dysfunctional lessons about marriage.

You don't have to hate someone to end the marriage. All this anguish you are feeling now will be lifted from your shoulders one day. You have every right and obligation to look out for your own best interests. Your stbxw is a grown adult woman who has made her own choices.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Does she still sleep with phone under her pillow?

Keep moving forward. You asked her for some things. You are waiting for some things to bring up to her. My question: What is more important in her life or your life to get going on these things?

I wouldn't worry too much about any words from her. I would focus on ACTIONS - anything that requires her to take actions. Talk is cheap and easy. Even writing the words rather than speaking verbally.

In no particular order: Timeline in writing, appointment for STDs, appointment with employment agency to find another job, block/delete gramps, ask her to write a no contact letter to grandpa to give to you to mail to him, delete/block toxic confidante, write down all accounts/passwords. Some of these are somewhat meaningless, but her willingness to do so allows you to determine just how committed she is to you. So far, it shows that she is not too committed to you. Even when you found out she cheated and you are turning away from her, she still is dragging her feet.

Her behavior is within a normal range of behavior for cheaters who get caught. But almost all cheaters will initially do the minimum. And will drag their feet. Only when you show strength, ready to leave her, will she start to do the things you ask - if she is committed or not. She might not care enough for you to do the things you ask. But you'll never know unless you ask. There is no benefit for delaying to ask for those things. I hope you are starting to see this based on what has happened already, with how she gave up the few things she did so far. 

Her confession was a good thing, you stood strong, and she caved, and then you comforted her. That's OK, but that was a small reward. It's done now, and time to ask her for the things you want. Which is NOT UNREASONABLE, given her past behavior and actions. It is justifiable and fair to help you feel comforted. Tell her you love sex, you love sleeping in the bed with her, but you don't need sex now, and you don't need to sleep in the bed with her now. You need for her to meet your legitimate requests now, not sex, not sleeping in the bed with her. You're here with her now, but you will not stay in a marriage where she is not committed enough to help you through this.

If she drags her feet, ask her what is more important than your requests.

In my opinion, I've never seen someone who was remorseful before 3 months. But there have been many who almost immediately gave in to these legitimate requests, because they knew deep down they were right, and because they wanted the marriage even if they didn't feel sorry about the affair, only sorry they got caught. Self-preservation as opposed to helping loyal spouse. They might or might not eventually find remorse, but will fairly quickly meet the loyal spouse's requests because they want the marriage for whatever reason, not because it will help the loyal spouse. A selfish reason. 

If your wife can't do that much, if the marriage doesn't mean even that much to her, there is no sense in staying with her at this point.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Compare about what you are asking for her compared to what she did in the affair:

1. You are asking her for a timeline in writing. It might take a few hours for her to do that. That is for you. A few hours. 

Now let's look at her in the affair. How many hours spent on phone calls and texts? How many hours on meeting for breakfast and lunch? How many hourse spent having sex with her?

What do her actions tell you about how important you are to her compared to how grampa is important to her?

2. You are asking her to make an appointment for STDs. It might take 5 minutes to make the appointment. It might take 2 hours to drive to the doctor, get tested, and return home. That's for you.

Now let's look at her in the affair. How many hours spent on phone calls and texts? How many hours on meeting for breakfast and lunch? How many hourse spent having sex with her?

What do her actions tell you about how important you are to her compared to how grampa is important to her?

3. You are asking her to write a no contact letter. It might take 10 minutes. For you. How much time and effort given to the affair for gramps?

I think you get the idea.

Why is she dragging her feet? Even if she's not sorry, does she want to stay with you, or not?

Based on her actions, who is the most important person in her life? Where do you rank?


----------



## OutofRetirement

In my opinion, her ranking of important people in her life:

1) Her.

2) Her job (not a person, but I think it's important to her).

3) Gramps.

4) Her child.

5) Her marriage (not you, but the appearances FOR HER, and stability for her child)

6) You.

I am basing it on her actions.


----------



## TDSC60

Steve,

You need to face the fact that your wife is no longer the woman you fell in love with and married. She has changed. She has become a selfish, self centered woman who sees nothing wrong with breaking her marriage vows, cheating on you, lying to you, and actively chasing another man. Your marriage is dead. She killed it when she started having sex with another man. She made this choice without you.

The woman you are in love with is gone. Her physical body is the same. She still looks like the woman you married, but the person inside is unknown to you - deceitful, selfish, unfeeling, changed, dead. You are in love with the memory of who you thought she was. You keep saying you love this woman. I am telling you the pod-person in your house now is not the woman you love. 

You are only now learning how morally broken she is. Can you ever trust this new wife?


----------



## GusPolinski

OutofRetirement said:


> In my opinion, her ranking of important people in her life:
> 
> 1) Her.
> 
> 2) Her job (not a person, but I think it's important to her).
> 
> 3) Gramps.
> 
> 4) Her child.
> 
> 5) Her marriage (not you, but the appearances FOR HER, and stability for her child)
> 
> 6) You.
> 
> I am basing it on her actions.


“Her image” is probably worthy of a spot on that list.


----------



## Windwalker

GusPolinski said:


> “Her image” is probably worthy of a spot on that list.


Yeah, if I had to guess, it sits at the #3 spot.

In her eyes, Steve sits quite lower than you have him ranked.


----------



## TDSC60

Windwalker said:


> Yeah, if I had to guess, it sits at the #3 spot.
> 
> In her eyes, Steve sits quite lower than you have him ranked.


I am afraid that Steve, as a husband and a real person, does not even make the top ten on the list.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

I don’t believe your wife has given you the full truth yet, however, you will never get the full truth. Every conversation, every word is something she can’t remember, she will remember what was spoke of regarding you. Ask for her to print out all communication with OM from her work accounts. Ask for her phone and tell you are having forensics recover all deleted data. Full transparency, and this includes every moment she speaks to OM. 

Many have told you to tell your wife to quit her job, I’ve been in that place and it’s not just as clear cut as most would like to believe. Therefore I recommend you don’t tell your wife to quit just yet. Instead, pressure OM hard, talk to your boss and tell him you want a conversation with your boss and OM. At this point you tell OM you are sending a letter to the CEO, board of directors if possible, and that he is to stay away from your wife. State that this has caused for you to work in a hostile work environment because of a management figures bad choices. That you will pursue this as sexual harassment for creating the hostile work environment and that since he is in a management position, any actions towards your wife will be viewed as retaliation. Advise OM you have retained an attorney, and that your boss will forward him the contact information if he needs to speak with you. 

When that meeting ends you contact your PI and have him make contact with OM’s wife in person. That he has proof of the affair, and that it is possible it has ended. You have now taken control of your situation, within legal parameters. I would also have a meeting with your boss and the CEO after your meeting with OM. You want the CEO clued in that management has opened the door to sexual harassment that could be pursued.


----------



## Chaparral

If she started hiding the phone when the affair started, why was she still putting the phone under her pillow at night. Was she hoping/afraid he would contact her? Was she interested in someone else? Was the affair even really over?


----------



## Beach123

I don't think she will begin being compliant until she is scared! Serve her with divorce papers even if you think you may withdraw.

She needs to think she is definitey losing you/her marriage! 

ALL of her requests should be completely ignored - they are all self serving = which got her into this position to begin with.

Do not allow her to think for one second you will take her back. You have the power of you stand firm on this point. Expose asap to grandpas (OM) wife. Allow the consequences to accumulate! I'm shocked she hasn't left the job! She cannot stay there working with grandpa (OM). She's shown she's willing to sleep with anything to get ahead in her career - not sure how to EVER trust her in any job/position.

She hasn't done ONE thing to earn your trust back - get moving with filing the D papers. You can decide for sure later IF she completely changes long term.


----------



## Nucking Futs

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> I don’t believe your wife has given you the full truth yet, however, you will never get the full truth. Every conversation, every word is something she can’t remember, she will remember what was spoke of regarding you. Ask for her to print out all communication with OM from her work accounts. Ask for her phone and tell you are having forensics recover all deleted data. Full transparency, and this includes every moment she speaks to OM.
> 
> Many have told you to tell your wife to quit her job, I’ve been in that place and it’s not just as clear cut as most would like to believe. Therefore I recommend you don’t tell your wife to quit just yet. Instead, pressure OM hard, talk to your boss and tell him you want a conversation with your boss and OM. At this point you tell OM you are sending a letter to the CEO, board of directors if possible, and that he is to stay away from your wife. State that this has caused for you to work in a hostile work environment because of a management figures bad choices. That you will pursue this as sexual harassment for creating the hostile work environment and that since he is in a management position, any actions towards your wife will be viewed as retaliation. Advise OM you have retained an attorney, and that your boss will forward him the contact information if he needs to speak with you.
> 
> When that meeting ends you contact your PI and have him make contact with OM’s wife in person. That he has proof of the affair, and that it is possible it has ended. You have now taken control of your situation, within legal parameters. I would also have a meeting with your boss and the CEO after your meeting with OM. You want the CEO clued in that management has opened the door to sexual harassment that could be pursued.


I mostly agree with this, but I think a consultation with a lawyer should come before any meetings with the employer about this. I also think the lawyer should be at the meetings. And to be clear I'm not talking about your divorce lawyer, which hopefully you've already retained. I'm talking about a labor lawyer that can represent you in an action against the company or, more likely, in negotiating a fat settlement.


----------



## Betrayedone

OP seems to have vanished....


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

What is her fathers connection to the company?
Does he know OM?
Does he know CEO?
Is he maybe the retired owner?

Why does your wife not like tattoos?
Is she scared of blood/needle disease
(HIV)

Something to consider 
If her and OM had sex 5 times
then why was there only one
condom missing in her travel bag?
(correct) Did she have unprotected
sex with OM? Or did she use the 
condoms with somebody else?
How many times did she travel with
OM and how many times with tattoo boss?

If she has always been trying to impress 
dad then maybe she was seeking dads
or grandpas validation from OM.

Do you know her father very well?
If you do then why did he marry and 
divorce her mother so many times?
Maybe the same reason you are thinking 
about it now?

Do not as I have said try and save her.
You love her and she knows this. (It shows)
That is why she uses tears (fake or real0
to make you feel sorry for her. 

You may be the only stable relationship she 
has ever know. She may seek something 
from somebody again. Then come back to 
you (Stable Steve) when it blows up on her.

If you stay and she does this again and again
you may love her and want to save her.
If you keep taking her back time and time again
then you no longer become her savior but
her enabler. I think because of her childhood
she may need lots of IC. If she does not realize
what she has done and how it affects you, her, daughter
then this may be impossible. I know she will not leave
her job. Maybe you should find another one.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

Office politics can be very troublesome.
During my previous professional career
I did travel and saw many married men and 
women cheat. I got offers from married 
women, one from one who was on her 
second marriage. (Felt sorry for that guy)
All of them I declined, you probably have
seen this to. 

If you choose divorce and want to expose at
work. Serve her then send out E-mail to 
your friends and have a BYOB divorce party.
You do not have to name OM, just you
and your wife name. The other people 
(toxic friend) friends of OM will put 
two and two together and figure it out.

Remember you can only save yourself!

Do not rug sweep this it will happen again.


----------



## Chuck71

OutofRetirement said:


> In my opinion, her ranking of important people in her life:
> 
> 1) Her.
> 
> 2) Her job (not a person, but I think it's important to her).
> 
> 3) Gramps.
> 
> 4) Her child.
> 
> 5) Her marriage (not you, but the appearances FOR HER, and stability for her child)
> 
> *145) White tag sales at Target
> 
> 146) You.
> 
> 147) The probability there is a Wal Mart on Mars*
> 
> I am basing it on her actions.


all fixed!


----------



## Chuck71

Betrayedone said:


> OP seems to have vanished....


He'll be back..... once the reality of everything sets in. They almost always do...


----------



## 3putt

Chuck71 said:


> He'll be back..... once the reality of everything sets in. They almost always do...


Well, to be fair, he's only been 'gone' since yesterday.


----------



## sa58

Consider the toxic swamp he is in
WW Om toxic friend mom married 5 times
sister and everything else he may need
some fresh air. Or maybe some time to think.


----------



## Cynthia

Betrayedone said:


> OP seems to have vanished....


He's been gone for less than 24 hours. 

He's not a computer algorithm put here to entertain us. He is a real person with a life and family who is trying to work through the disaster that is currently his life.


----------



## manwithnoname

This has been brought up several times, the fact that one condom was missing but she admitted to five encounters.

This doesn't prove unprotected sex, although it is a strong possibility. This could be the umpteenth box. She could have used condoms with someone other than fossil boy. She could have used condoms every time.

If it were me, I would want to know, but it wouldn't change my filing for divorce. One time and with a condom would be enough for me, regardless of her childhood.


----------



## Suspicious1

manwithnoname said:


> This has been brought up several times, the fact that one condom was missing but she admitted to five encounters.
> 
> This doesn't prove unprotected sex, although it is a strong possibility. This could be the umpteenth box. She could have used condoms with someone other than fossil boy. She could have used condoms every time.
> 
> If it were me, I would want to know, but it wouldn't change my filing for divorce. One time and with a condom would be enough for me, regardless of her childhood.


They probably used condoms once, after that all natura'l. The OM being old dude, feeling as much heat as possible will only help things going! 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## sa58

She could have used a condom with the tattoo
boss because she wanted protection because of
fear. She may be scared because he had tattoos 
he may have contacted something from needles


----------



## Beach123

With the way she's protective and not forthcoming at all - it's highly possible there was more than one OM.


----------



## sa58

She denied knowing about the condoms I
think in the first place. I also think Steve 
said she took one trip with the tattoo boss.
One time one condom? I think maybe Steve
should ask her sometime about how she new
about his unseen tattoos. But it is up to 
him. Right now he has a lot more to think about.

Hope you are doing well Steve.


----------



## Chaparral

What? We have no idea how forthcoming she is. When he finally asked for a timeline she gave him one. That’s all we know. Everything else is speculation. She also admitted to gramps being the one. Just have to wait and see what else she is willing to do. If she doesn’t lie about it it will be a first. Scuba has to sink his teeth into this like a junk yard dog. Make them both howl till there is nothing left.

By the way, I think the “all you want is sex,” was generic for all men, particularly gramps. I doubt there were really that much true feelings going on. There are other motives. Bigly, I don’t think she ever cut Scuba off did she. That usually indicates a sex for fun relationship.


----------



## Malaise

Chaparral said:


> What? We have no idea how forthcoming she is. When he finally asked for a timeline she gave him one. That’s all we know. Everything else is speculation. She also admitted to gramps being the one. Just have to wait and see what else she is willing to do. If she doesn’t lie about it it will be a first. Scuba has to sink his teeth into this like a junk yard dog. Make them both howl till there is nothing left.
> 
> By the way, I think the “all you want is sex,” was generic for all men, particularly gramps. I doubt there were really that much true feelings going on. There are other motives. Bigly, I don’t think she ever cut Scuba off did she.* That usually indicates a sex for fun relationship*.


Or, sex for promotion, raise


----------



## Scuba_Steve

This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later. 

I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess. 

She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


----------



## manwithnoname

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Quite honestly, I think you may be getting trickle truth. It may be first and only affair, but think about this:

She senses you will get over it because you haven't kicked her out and/or filed. If she admitted to more, she risks putting you over the edge.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Thanks for the update. I think the folks on TAM are worrying about you. I am worrying about how this is going to hurt your daughter.

I am a guy who can't get his head around the concept that a woman would willingly want to have sex with a man 30 years older than her. I thought it was going to turn out to be coercion or blackmail of some sort. Guess I was wrong.

I think your wife does know why, but she just can't bring herself tell you because it will likely hurt you bad (salt in the wounds sort of thing).

I will pray for you and your daughter and even your wife. It is Easter and Christians like me are observing the belief that Jesus willingly suffered and died to pay for the bad things we humans do.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Time for data recovery.

Also, ask her which of her friends knew about the affair, because they need to go away, along with the job.

And have you even had that discussion (new job) yet?


----------



## Chaparral

Take everything with a grain of salt. Lying, gaslighting, blameshifting, trickle truthing, etc., are the currencies cheaters deal in.

Find the app and recover everything on her phone. Alos, look for any old phones around the house.

Has she told Posom you know? If she hasn't, tell her not to.


----------



## Chaparral

GusPolinski said:


> Time for data recovery.
> 
> Also, ask her which of her friends knew about the affair, because they need to go away, along with the job.
> 
> And have you even had that discussion (new job) yet?


Maybe its time for gramps to be shown the door.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Overall, that's a good update. "I don't know" is a lie.

I've heard that some apps, if you reinstall it, all the old stuff comes back. I did a quick online search for snapchat and the great beyond said if you reinstall snapchat using the same username the pics and vids will be there. I don't always trust the great beyond, but giving it a try can't hurt.


----------



## Beach123

She gave up the phone because she knew she wiped it clean of all the incriminating evidence. Time to recover ALL data on that phone.

You're not going to have a woman like this (an unremoresful gal) offer up any truth. She's willing to tell what you already know - but there's more you don't know. 

Have her hand over her phone so the PI can do a forensics sweep of it.

Get her a burner phone for her in the meantime - he may need that phone for a while.

Have you filed for D? Have you told the OM's wife yet? 

You need to start making things VERY uncomfortable so she understands that life is about to change if she doesn't get on board with being honest!

And stop fooling yourself - she hasn't been honest at all - she's only willing to tell you what you know and is willing to let you see what isn't so bad. You don't yet know what she doesn't want you to see. If she was honest she would have offered her phone before she deleted all the evidence. She did that as soon as she got to her Mom's. 

She's not honest when she's never OFFERED you the real truth! Lying by omission is still lying.

She needs to agree to get a new and improved job! She needs to get rid of any acquaintance that's not a friend of the marriage!

She has SO MUCH changing to do before you consider calling off a divorce! Yes, this is your BEST card to play "I'm divorcing you"! And she needs long term counseling since she can't seem to figure out "why she cheated". She also needs help being an honest spouse because she's become a skilled bold faced liar.

Get busy taking better control of this awful mess she dumped in your lap.


----------



## sa58

Like everyone said she cleaned the phone
I have no doubt she has probably told
OM . Have you checked VARS recently
She may have talked to someone when you sent her 
the timeline text.


----------



## wmn1

Chaparral said:


> Maybe its time for gramps to be shown the door.


Gramps ? How about showing her arse the door ?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Edmund said:


> I am a guy who can't get his head around the concept that a woman would willingly want to have sex with a man 30 years older than her. I thought it was going to turn out to be coercion or blackmail of some sort. Guess I was wrong.


I don't think it's as uncommon as you think, Edmund - much younger female, much older male. I think frequently it's kept quiet because there is a bit of a stigma for the female. The first time I saw it was when I was about 20 and my girlfriend's friends, some very attractive also about age 20, were dating with 50-ish guys. Met them at the country club, the guys took them on mini-vacations, weekends to the continent or the islands. When I started working in business, many CEOs were 45-plus married to their second wives, 25-year-old former secretaries. Just about every single one I worked with. Sometimes the wives were not far off in age from the CEOs children from the first wife. Of course you've heard of trophy wives.

If you search online for "sugar baby increase" you'll find story after story about this. They called them golddiggers when I was younger.

But when I was younger, too, there always were women my age (25-ish) who dated 50-ish guys who weren't even rich. "Daddy issues" we called it. Which by the way, seems might be Steve's wife's situation.

I don't remember where I got this from, but I was told somewhere that younger women find power and fame and wealth are aphrodisiacs. Status. I'm told older guys could be considered to be more "distinguished" or "wise" or "confident." Mick Jagger fathered a child a year or so agao at age 73 with a 29-year-old model. His three oldest daughters are 47, 46, and 34.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201706/why-do-some-women-date-much-older-men


----------



## sa58

Everyone has said it set up a polygraph
and data recovery PI can help
Why grandpa she knows why.If she does not
know why ask her why it stopped and then restarted. 
As everyone has said she is trickle truth you


----------



## Beach123

Who ended the affair and why did it end? It's certainly not for the reason she gave you. You need to talk to the OM wife. She likely suspected someone/the affair.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Steve she has had time to clean this up as you can see. She is only showing you things that back up her story. 

I am really sorry for what you are going through Steve. 

I would start to believe her story if she had deleted nothing. But she cleaned house and only has emails backing her story. 

Why keep the emails and delete everything else?

There is only one reason to do so. 

Give her phone to your detective and see if he can pull anything out of it.


----------



## sa58

Tell her you want her to resign her job.
ASAP I bet she will not do it because of
10+ years there. (College Internship) 
She needs to get away from Grandpa
or it may ( I don't know) may start again

Grandpa may have pictures I would 
tell her I want a divorce. But that is 
just me.


----------



## ABHale

If Steve is going to divorce, why have his cheating wife quit her job?


----------



## sa58

I do not think he has decided on divorce or R
yet. If he wants to R.then she should.


----------



## Chaparral

ABHale said:


> If Steve is going to divorce, why have his cheating wife quit her job?


If he isn't going to divorce or is going to divorce, I would go after Gramps' job! Payback is supposed to be Hell.

The reason she did it was because sex is fun. Its just embarrassing to admit she enjoyed it and enjoyed turning the old man on.


----------



## Chuck71

3putt said:


> Well, to be fair, he's only been 'gone' since yesterday.


I actually didn't make that post :scratchhead:


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “*I don’t know”.* I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


She knows she's just not willing to tell you. Was she the initiator? Or was grampa? Who dropped who?

Turn her phone over yo the PI for data recovery. You'll have all the evidence you need for the HR department. If you can recover it. Key point here.


----------



## BluesPower

*No, I am afraid that Steve...*

No, I am afraid that Steve... is buying into her crap way too easy.

First off there is tattoo guy, and the missing condom. That is a complete and total lie and she evidently does not think that Steve has anything on Tat boy, maybe because it was a longer time ago. I don't know, it is hard to follow some of this thread. 

But on that one, if she goes on a business trip, comes home with a box of condoms, and one is missing, she has sex with the dude. No doubt about that one at all. 

I am thinking maybe Steve gave something away in conversation that he is not admitting to here, because everyone told him to keep his mouth shut, and not he is ashamed. 

The thing is... telling him that "I don't know why" I had the affair, well come on that is utter crap at every level. 

I agree with everyone else that she has sanitized everything because she knew the jig was up. 

@Scuba Steve, man, please do not believe anything she says. She in her mind thinks that she can save this thing by lying and she also thinks that you are stupid enough and weak enough to accept this drivel and take her back. 

Man, she does not love you, she does not respect you, and she is not sexually attracted to you at all. I think no matter what you do, you will never get any of this back. 

She is just a bad one and you need to move on...


----------



## Marc878

The key info will be in the phone. If you want the full truth.

All cheaters lie, hide, deny and minimize a lot.


----------



## Beach123

You've only been with her 8 years so far. That's nothing compared to a lifetime (your future) wondering when she will do it again.

Cheaters cheat. You may not find out about the next one but you'll always be wondering. I guarantee it - been there, done that. It sucks. There's no possible way to have any peace of mind no matter how many years go by.

You've only been married 5 years - cut your losses knowing she really isn't remorseful. She only sorry she got caught.


----------



## why_amihere

*Re: No, I am afraid that Steve...*



BluesPower said:


> No, I am afraid that Steve... is buying into her crap way too easy.
> 
> First off there is tattoo guy, and the missing condom. That is a complete and total lie and she evidently does not think that Steve has anything on Tat boy, maybe because it was a longer time ago. I don't know, it is hard to follow some of this thread.
> 
> But on that one, if she goes on a business trip, comes home with a box of condoms, and one is missing, she has sex with the dude. No doubt about that one at all.
> 
> I am thinking maybe Steve gave something away in conversation that he is not admitting to here, because everyone told him to keep his mouth shut, and not he is ashamed.
> 
> The thing is... telling him that "I don't know why" I had the affair, well come on that is utter crap at every level.
> 
> I agree with everyone else that she has sanitized everything because she knew the jig was up.
> 
> @Scuba Steve, man, please do not believe anything she says. She in her mind thinks that she can save this thing by lying and she also thinks that you are stupid enough and weak enough to accept this drivel and take her back.
> 
> Man, she does not love you, she does not respect you, and she is not sexually attracted to you at all. I think no matter what you do, you will never get any of this back.
> 
> She is just a bad one and you need to move on...


In my opinion you are on the right track....this has been bothering me throughout the whole thread. I just could not wrap my head around grampa using the chat apps. Then when OP related the fact that WW had given access to her phone and said that the emails with gramps were there (also she spent alot of time on voice calls with gramps) but the apps were missing it made me almost positive that it is not only gramps. I am not sure it is also tattoo boss but this is screaming serial to me.


----------



## thedope

Oh look trickling truth. What ever she’s admitting to their is 400 times more what she’s telling you. There always is. Tell her to take a polygraph.


----------



## Beach123

I agree, a polygraph is a must. The sooner the better.

And I highly doubt those apps were to contact grampa. They were likely for her other OM.

You have kids? If so, DNA test them. It will let her know just how deeply she has betrayed you. Do it even if you're 150% confident they kids are yours. She needs to see how serious her offense is.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Her using school email account makes me wonder if her affair with him goes back to when she was a intern just starting out in the company. 

The school has back ups of all the email. I know because I had that job when i was in uni, I kept tapes going back years, many years. Ask the school for the backups. All they can say is yes or no.

Ask Snapchat to restore her account. Same. they can say yes or no. 

As far as why Grandpa "I don't know" is not an answer at all. His magic d* didn't just fall into her. Remind her of that. Ask her point blank. Was it money, career or social advantage because 32 year old women don't suck 60* year old c* for anything else except maybe kink. What it is? It's a brutal question but she is the one who sucked his d*. Be strong on this. 

Ask her why was she still 'hiding phone" after affair was over. 

Then ask her as she has humiliated you in the worst possible way a woman can humiliate a man why should you even think about reconciliation? Tell her now that she gave herself to a guy about to retire why the hell should you continue to keep your wagon hitched to hers?


----------



## Cromer

@Scuba_Steve I haven't said much here because my experience is much different than yours. I didn't find out about my XWW's affairs until years later. I stayed in a sexless marriage because I wanted my kids to have a family unit, and I held out hope that things would change at some point. What I had against me was not knowing what I was facing with my XWW's affairs and her mindset about them.

I had already detached from my XWW and made the decision to divorce. My kids are grown and that simplifies the situation. In another forum, she'd be considered the ideal candidate for R because of the transparency and remorse she's shown, the time that had passed since the last affair, and my hesitance to divorce. This would especially be true if I'd posted a play-by-play of what happened as things played out in the end (I didn't here because I'd stopped posting). But, I could never accept what she'd done to deceive me and our children. Not to mention the years of stolen intimacy. Think about it. The time your WW spent managing OM was stolen from you and your DD.

Much like your WW, mine was very vague on the "why" she needed to have another man's d!ck in her. But it didn't matter in the end. Even though I'd made the decision to divorce before knowing about the affairs, if I had known years earlier I would've left. I couldn't live with her with knowing that she cheated. What she did was such a violation of our marriage and my trust that I could never trust her again.

I am divorced and it cost me a lot. But I am happier than I've been in many years. You are young. You still love your wife and I get that, believe me. What I will tell you is that time is on your side. I'm 53, have a great woman in my life, I'm close to my children, and am happy. You can be too. It might not be the life you envisioned for yourself, but at least you can have a life of peace once you get past this. If you stay with your WW you'll never know peace. Just prepare yourself for a life of paranoia and pain.

I am truly sorry that you are facing this right now. My heart goes out to you and your DD. May all cheaters burn in Hell, and I mean it.


----------



## eric1

Only five times does not fit the behavior patterns you described earlier this thread - parking garage, etc


----------



## Sparta

Steve better not believe her, not one time since I’ve been on here has a WW ever told the truth right from the get go ever. Cheaters lie, she’s pulling one over on you if you believe she’s giving you the truth. Bluespower It’s definitely right on track what’s really going on. Not that anybody else hasn’t giving you good advice here they have. Everyone here has been Given you excellent advice but need to take it all in and listen. You might have to separate yourself from this meaning you might have to somehow get away from her for a few days at least. I hope to God you never revealed how you received any of your information. and keep up the information gathering because you’ll catcher she’ll saying something about her affairs... so keep using the VARs everywhere you possibly can. Good luck and keep giving us information we needed it to help you.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Divorce odds +150
Successful Reconcile odds +500
Rug sweep odds -100
Unsuccessful R -200

Place your bets folks.


----------



## [email protected]

Scuba-Steve, most of the others seem to counsel divorce. Listen to them as some have been through this long before you. Moreover, you have been
acting like a Beta. Most women don't respect Betas, so turn yourself into an Alpha. Get rid of this creature, and look forward to someone who will respect and love you.


----------



## Malaise

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Her using school email account makes me wonder if her affair with him goes back to when she was a intern just starting out in the company.
> 
> The school has back ups of all the email. I know because I had that job when i was in uni, I kept tapes going back years, many years. Ask the school for the backups. All they can say is yes or no.
> 
> Ask Snapchat to restore her account. Same. they can say yes or no.
> 
> *As far as why Grandpa "I don't know" is not an answer at all.* His magic d* didn't just fall into her. Remind her of that. Ask her point blank. Was it money, career or social advantage because 32 year old women don't suck 60* year old c* for anything else except maybe kink. What it is? It's a brutal question but she is the one who sucked his d*. Be strong on this.
> 
> Ask her why was she still 'hiding phone" after affair was over.
> 
> Then ask her as she has humiliated you in the worst possible way a woman can humiliate a man why should you even think about reconciliation? Tell her now that she gave herself to a guy about to retire why the hell should you continue to keep your wagon hitched to hers?


I'll quote myself : If a person would rather answer ' I don't know' and appear stupid doing so it's better than appearing malicious by being truthful.

She knows why even if it's difficult to articulate.

She's fearful of the consequences of truth and she doesn't respect you enough ( or at all ) to tell it.


----------



## 3putt

Chuck71 said:


> I actually didn't make that post :scratchhead:


My bad Chuck. Meant to quote the one right above yours.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

As an aside, I always get a kick out of the cheater who is "taken aback" by questions regarding potential other affair partners. "WHAT? How could you think such a thing about me?" Well, it has something to do with the fact that you've been sleeping around and lying for months.

Makes you realize what an irrational concept of self they have and just how silent and deep compartmentalization can run.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some ...
> 
> ... most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


Steve, almost every cheater deletes. The main reason they usually delete, first and foremost, in my opinion, is to be in control to get the outcome they want. They would rather tell you, "yes it was sexual and I sent pics" rather than to see the very raw and raunchy words, words she has never, ever used with you. Cheaters will never, without being questioned or prompted, "I said stuff to him that I never said to you." Now, already, you may know that you have never received a pic from her. Yet he has received at least one of them.

A small part, too, I believe is embarrassment or shame. Usually they feel guilty to some degree. We do not know the extent. Sometimes you as the spouse may know a little bit about how guilty they are about it, sometimes you as the spouse has no clue about it. Look at your wife's fairly recent past wrongdoings - she didn't do something she should have, or she did something she shouldn't have - and how guilty did she feel? If it wasn't about you, she may have told you "I didn't do this thing I was supposed to, and I'm not going to feel bad about it," or she may have told you the opposite, "I did something I shouldn't have and I feel very bad about it." If she is the type who will admit wrongdoing and apologize, she may do so with her affair. Or it might be too big of a consequence for her.

Steve, did you ever meet people in high school or college who are miserable people, underhanded, no morals, etc.? What happened to those people? By and large, didn't they wind up getting married and having kids? Next question, who the heck would marry those people and have children with them? Clueless suckers? Or comrades in immorality? When people like you post here, it's very difficult to see if your wife was one of those people because all I can see is your wife's egregious cheating behavior and the not the entirety of her true nature. And furthermore, I can't determine easily if you are clueless about her true nature.

So it is very possible that what your wife told you is basically the truth. But it will be a santized truth, and will omit any especially egregious words or actions that you do not know. If she said sex "five times," there is a term called "cheater speak" and I call it "cheater math," maybe she had intercourse 5 times, maybe it was 15, or maybe it was "only" 5, but she give him either oral or a handjob or he groped her every single time they met. You love your wife, but he very likely did not and only wanted the sexual aspect.

These are concepts I've heard about that practically every cheater does. If I give any thought to it, these concepts are in play in almost every wrongdoing when the person is caught. The same type of behaviors in explaining the wrongness of cheating was the same behaviors my then-10-year-old used when he threw the football in the living room and smashed the lamp.



Outright Lies (I didn't do it, i.e., deny, deny deny)
Blaming (my friend "made" me do it)
Rationalization (I thought you didn't care if I did it)
Compartmentalising (I only did it when you weren't around)
Trickle Truth (actually, remember the vase on the coffee table?)
Minimization (I only did it once)
Lies of Omission (I've been doing a lot things even worse you don't even know about)


And of course, my then-10-year-old and his friend cleaned up the shards of the lamp and put it in the garbage can outside (like I wouldn't know a lamp was missing). ie., deleting texts.


----------



## Malaise

OutofRetirement said:


> Steve, almost every cheater deletes. The main reason they usually delete, first and foremost, in my opinion, is to be in control to get the outcome they want. They would rather tell you, "yes it was sexual and I sent pics" rather than to see the very raw and raunchy words, words she has never, ever used with you. Cheaters will never, without being questioned or prompted, "I said stuff to him that I never said to you." Now, already, you may know that you have never received a pic from her. Yet he has received at least one of them.
> 
> A small part, too, I believe is embarrassment or shame. Usually they feel guilty to some degree. We do not know the extent. Sometimes you as the spouse may know a little bit about how guilty they are about it, sometimes you as the spouse has no clue about it. Look at your wife's fairly recent past wrongdoings - she didn't do something she should have, or she did something she shouldn't have - and how guilty did she feel? If it wasn't about you, she may have told you "I didn't do this thing I was supposed to, and I'm not going to feel bad about it," or she may have told you the opposite, "I did something I shouldn't have and I feel very bad about it." If she is the type who will admit wrongdoing and apologize, she may do so with her affair. Or it might be too big of a consequence for her.
> 
> Steve, did you ever meet people in high school or college who are miserable people, underhanded, no morals, etc.? What happened to those people? By and large, didn't they wind up getting married and having kids? Next question, who the heck would marry those people and have children with them? Clueless suckers? Or comrades in immorality? When people like you post here, it's very difficult to see if your wife was one of those people because all I can see is your wife's egregious cheating behavior and the not the entirety of her true nature. And furthermore, I can't determine easily if you are clueless about her true nature.
> 
> So it is very possible that what your wife told you is basically the truth. But it will be a santized truth, and will omit any especially egregious words or actions that you do not know. If she said sex "five times," there is a term called "cheater speak" and I call it "cheater math," maybe she had intercourse 5 times, maybe it was 15, or maybe it was "only" 5, but she give him either oral or a handjob or he groped her every single time they met. You love your wife, but he very likely did not and only wanted the sexual aspect.
> 
> These are concepts I've heard about that practically every cheater does. If I give any thought to it, these concepts are in play in almost every wrongdoing when the person is caught. The same type of behaviors in explaining the wrongness of cheating was the same behaviors my then-10-year-old used when he threw the football in the living room and smashed the lamp.
> 
> 
> Outright Lies (I didn't do it, i.e., deny, deny deny)
> Blaming (my friend "made" me do it)
> Rationalization (I thought you didn't care if I did it)
> Compartmentalising (I only did it when you weren't around)
> Trickle Truth (actually, remember the vase on the coffee table?)
> Minimization (I only did it once)
> Lies of Omission (I've been doing a lot things even worse you don't even know about)


Epic post.


----------



## Evinrude58

OP, do you really think your wife loves you?
Do you think she is an honest, loyal person?
Do you think this will ever get better (the mind movies you play for yourself), or do you think if you have your wife back and things calm down, they’ll get worse?

She has stated “I thought I was falling in love with him”. This clearly says that she was disloyal and had sex with a man behind your back THAT SHE DIDN’T EVEN LOVE.

Why haven’t you seen an attorney? Are you?
Why haven’t you gotten angry at OM, and attempted to help him lose his job which he abused.

You’re afraid to lose your family. I know, I get it.
The thing is, it was lost when your wife nuked it months ago.

You can still keep your relationship with your children, if you will just get an attorney.

It’s time for action, and every day you wait, the chances of you getting a reasonable settlement get less, as does your opportunity to stick it to the OM.

Action. You need action.
Asking your wife to tell you lies will get you nowhere.
At least take action where you won’t have to ask for the lies, they’ll flow like water over Niagara Falls when she sees some action.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,

Surely you are more insightful that your wife thinks you are. Take a step back and pause for a moment. Read through some of the threads here. Those sounds coming out of your partners mouth are lies. There may be some small portion of truth, but she is minimizing the extent of what she has done. The "I don't know" is most definitely a damned lie.

You're getting the lieing, minimizing, cheaters script, and from the sounds of it, you're buying it.

Point blank, Is your partner ****ing another man a deal breaker? Because she has already admitted to that much.

So is it a deal breaker or not?


----------



## Suspicious1

sa58 said:


> Tell her you want her to resign her job.
> ASAP I bet she will not do it because of
> 10+ years there. (College Internship)
> She needs to get away from Grandpa
> or it may ( I don't know) may start again
> 
> Grandpa may have pictures I would
> tell her I want a divorce. But that is
> just me.


Start at a new job, with no guys with tatoos, or older rich guys with power, hell no men at all. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ButtPunch

Windwalker said:


> Steve,
> 
> Point blank, Is your partner ****ing another man a deal breaker? Because she has already admitted to that much.
> 
> So is it a deal breaker or not?


Steve is in shock still.

He needs time to process this. 

He isn't sure what he wants.

He isn't sure what to believe.

Don't make any life changing decisions under emotional duress. 

You do need to inform the om's wife asap.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

I remember my wife’s confession like it happened five minutes ago. My wife tried to trickle truth, thanks to TAM, I knew that was coming. Her affair started with they held hands once, that was it nothing more happened, I promise. Then it became we kissed once, I promise it never went further then that. I had to cut off our talk, told her in a very mean and cruel way, I will not tolerate any more disrespect. You have one day to figure out how to tell me the truth, one chance, or I’m done. I will not tolerate any half truths, lies, you come clean or it’s done. 

The following night we had a long discussion in which she showed me truth and remorse. I didn’t think a person could die from crying, but I will tell you that night I thought it just might be possible. Has your wife done this with you, has she dropped everything as she knows only the full truth can save her? I mean has she dropped protecting herself and OM, no longer concerned how you or the world views her? That’s the point one needs to reach, that’s the point your wife has to come to. 

With remorse you will know when this happens, what you are seeing now is regret. Your wife has not felt true remorse yet, but she will in the future. Even though she has many issues to contend with, and a daddy issue is a huge one, I think she will feel true remorse. I think the bigger question would be will she feel remorse with reconciliation or divorce. Your wife has used deception without batting an eye, your wife dated another without a single concern, your wife had sex with another without one thought of her family, my wife did too. My wife had remorse her hit hard, yours may too, what you need to do is talk to her in a way that she opens the compartment she has the affair stored in. Your wife, like mine, compartmentalizes very well. 

The I don’t know comment is a crock of ****, she knows, but she isn’t strong enough to tell you at the moment. Showing you her email is a start, but be assured it’s a watered down version. You know this because she deleted the texts and Snapchat. You need to ask her why she deleted texts and Snapchat but allowed you to see the emails. Point out to her that by deleting the more incriminating material raises your level of mistrust. Her minimizing and trickle truth leads you to more distrust, how would she feel if you did that to her? Your wife needs to hit rock bottom, not be worried about hurting you, not be worried about protecting you, she could have done that by not having the affair to begin with. 

Ask her questions about if people found out, and also who exactly does know. Whoever knows needs to cut from her life, anyone at work or in her personal life. What did she think would happen to her career if others found out? What would happen to her marriage? Being a person who would risk so much just to be a notch on a belt doesn’t sound all that smart. Doesn’t sound like someone who cares very much for what they have. How could she risk all that? How could she risk the little family she says she loves so much? How could she risk hurting her daughter so much by being divorced and not allowing her to be with both of her parents? These are questions you need answered, as well as does the grandpa boss know that you know. This will show you where you are in the pecking order, because if he knows, you rank behind him even more. I would also ask her if OMs wife knows, that you believe that is why the affair ended. This will make her think you won’t contact her if she says yes, so don’t expect to hear a no to that question. 

The mistakes you have made scuba are mistakes you can easily recover from. First get back in the other bedroom, I would put your wife there, but that’s you. I would tell her to move from the marital bed until she has proven herself to sleep in that bed. Consoling her was not that bad of a move, I did to, but I explained it this way. I saw you were hurting, I placed my pain to the side to ease yours, even though your transgression hurt me deeply, I am a caring human being who saw you suffering. Perhaps you think you are like this, that you offer compassion and empathy even during extreme trials, however it’s not what you have shown me. Therefore I will be resuming in the protection of myself for me and our daughter.

Your words need to cut, but your actions need to cause a reaction within her that she fears. She should be fearing the worst in that this marriage is completely finished. She should be fearing that her image and career are at the brink of destruction. That the destruction could come from many people, not just you. Your wife has not grasped the full reality of what she’s done, she may or may not, only she can control this.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> This is only a quick update. I’m going to add more later.
> 
> I had another talk with my wife. Its seems like she has been telling the truth. My wife gave me all her passwords to her Social media accounts and emails. She even showed me the email she used to talk to grandpa. It was her old school email. I didn’t even think it was still active. I am looking at the emails it backs up what she’s be saying. I haven’t read all the emails and I’m not ruling out she deleted some or something like. Its wait and see I guess.
> 
> She doesn’t have a good reason for picking grandpa. I asked her a couple times why him and all she would say was “I don’t know”. I also asked her if it was her first and only affair. She was taken back by it but promised it was her first and only affair. I did ask for her phone she did give up but most of the app and text have been deleted. I asked about it she told me it was because she used the phone to text grandpa. For those wondering she did admit to sending him pics via snapchat. That app was deleted too.


This may have already been said...... but she is showing you only what she wants you to see.

And you may want to look into the possibility of her receiving "gifts" from him.... maybe jewelry, handbags,

maybe stuff she claimed she bought on sale but didn't...

One poster... was many years ago, learned his WW was being given high end Hermes and $750 shoes.

He had a bonfire a few nights later....


----------



## manfromlamancha

So did she tell you how it started ? Who initiated ? How it ended ? Who ended it ?


----------



## stro

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> I remember my wife’s confession like it happened five minutes ago. My wife tried to trickle truth, thanks to TAM, I knew that was coming. Her affair started with they held hands once, that was it nothing more happened, I promise. Then it became we kissed once, I promise it never went further then that. I had to cut off our talk, told her in a very mean and cruel way, I will not tolerate any more disrespect. You have one day to figure out how to tell me the truth, one chance, or I’m done. I will not tolerate any half truths, lies, you come clean or it’s done.
> 
> The following night we had a long discussion in which she showed me truth and remorse. I didn’t think a person could die from crying, but I will tell you that night I thought it just might be possible. Has your wife done this with you, has she dropped everything as she knows only the full truth can save her? I mean has she dropped protecting herself and OM, no longer concerned how you or the world views her? That’s the point one needs to reach, that’s the point your wife has to come to.
> 
> With remorse you will know when this happens, what you are seeing now is regret. Your wife has not felt true remorse yet, but she will in the future. Even though she has many issues to contend with, and a daddy issue is a huge one, I think she will feel true remorse. I think the bigger question would be will she feel remorse with reconciliation or divorce. Your wife has used deception without batting an eye, your wife dated another without a single concern, your wife had sex with another without one thought of her family, my wife did too. My wife had remorse her hit hard, yours may too, what you need to do is talk to her in a way that she opens the compartment she has the affair stored in. Your wife, like mine, compartmentalizes very well.
> 
> The I don’t know comment is a crock of ****, she knows, but she isn’t strong enough to tell you at the moment. Showing you her email is a start, but be assured it’s a watered down version. You know this because she deleted the texts and Snapchat. You need to ask her why she deleted texts and Snapchat but allowed you to see the emails. Point out to her that by deleting the more incriminating material raises your level of mistrust. Her minimizing and trickle truth leads you to more distrust, how would she feel if you did that to her? Your wife needs to hit rock bottom, not be worried about hurting you, not be worried about protecting you, she could have done that by not having the affair to begin with.
> 
> Ask her questions about if people found out, and also who exactly does know. Whoever knows needs to cut from her life, anyone at work or in her personal life. What did she think would happen to her career if others found out? What would happen to her marriage? Being a person who would risk so much just to be a notch on a belt doesn’t sound all that smart. Doesn’t sound like someone who cares very much for what they have. How could she risk all that? How could she risk the little family she says she loves so much? How could she risk hurting her daughter so much by being divorced and not allowing her to be with both of her parents? These are questions you need answered, as well as does the grandpa boss know that you know. This will show you where you are in the pecking order, because if he knows, you rank behind him even more. I would also ask her if OMs wife knows, that you believe that is why the affair ended. This will make her think you won’t contact her if she says yes, so don’t expect to hear a no to that question.
> 
> The mistakes you have made scuba are mistakes you can easily recover from. First get back in the other bedroom, I would put your wife there, but that’s you. I would tell her to move from the marital bed until she has proven herself to sleep in that bed. Consoling her was not that bad of a move, I did to, but I explained it this way. I saw you were hurting, I placed my pain to the side to ease yours, even though your transgression hurt me deeply, I am a caring human being who saw you suffering. Perhaps you think you are like this, that you offer compassion and empathy even during extreme trials, however it’s not what you have shown me. Therefore I will be resuming in the protection of myself for me and our daughter.
> 
> Your words need to cut, but your actions need to cause a reaction within her that she fears. She should be fearing the worst in that this marriage is completely finished. She should be fearing that her image and career are at the brink of destruction. That the destruction could come from many people, not just you. Your wife has not grasped the full reality of what she’s done, she may or may not, only she can control this.


 just in case you missed this post. Here it is again.


----------



## Beach123

If you're celebrating Easter, my hope is that your are NOT pretending to family that things are all ok. 

It's better to face this head on and to allow others to know that things are not right...and to explain to them why it's not alright.

Do not cover for your wife. Do not sugar coat things.

How are you doing today?


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

At this point you know what happened, maybe not the why or how, but you know it was a physical affair. Choosing a date to know all just isn’t practical, your wife has to reach areas on her own, such as the how and why. Currently you should be taking care of yourself, then your daughter, nothing else. You aren’t running a forty yard dash, your running a full marathon. If you have filed for divorce then you are taking a strong action towards moving forward. You should be contacting the OM’s wife as soon as you possibly can. This will put pressure on both the OM and your wife. Having a meeting with both your boss and OM should be done this week. Then a meeting with your boss and the CEO, I would also add your lawyer to this meeting if at all possible. If your lawyer is unable to attend, perhaps he could write a letter as to the infractions that the OM committed while in a management position that you can read. 

I most always advise to file for divorce and then wait six months to make a decision. A divorce can be stopped if you decide to reconcile, but the message is strong. Make your decision from a position of strength and not emotions. Sit your wife down and tell her you need to say a few things, which she will not interrupt. First is no contact with OM, if she says it’s her boss and needs to communicate with him, tell her she should of thought of that before ****ing him. No contact, period. Next tell her what you need from her, honesty, detailed timeline, all questions answered, and that she must pass a polygraph. Do not mention the polygraph until the night before. I understand she gave you a timeline, but it was rushed, and now you want the full detailed timeline. Ask her for whatever else you need, then give her a time and date that you will speak again. Tell your wife she will answer any and all questions with honesty, no anger, and that you will speak for a chosen amount of time. I wouldn’t go over forty five minutes at a time, this is a very tough conversation. 

Go about your business as usual without including your wife until you come to a healthier place personally. Instead concentrate on both your job and daughter. Do things for you, your daughter, and leave your wife to start making her own repairs to becoming healthier. From here on you no longer console her, and if she cries, ask her if she cried while getting ****ed by OM. I doubt she did, and she will tell you she felt guilty, but not guilty enough to hurt you in the worst way. This is what I mean by making your words cut, her words should be truth, and her actions genuine. Words are just that, words, so tell your wife that her apologizing are words, words you don’t believe, but you will believe her actions. Best of luck scuba, you’re entering the point that can be very painful, more painful then what you’ve gone through thus far.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Again, lawyer?

2. Full timeline?

3. Polygraph scheduled?

4. No contact letter?

5. STD test?

6. Child DNA test?

7. Exposure to family?

8. Apology letter to you?

9. Resume worked on for new job?

10.Anything?


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

I’m going to tell you how I felt after my wife confessed to having an affair with an OM twenty five years her senior. Yep, my wife’s affair partner was twenty five years her senior, quite a kick to the gut, isn’t it? Not only did she have an affair, but with an OM old enough to be her father, I’m sure you’re thinking it couldn’t get any worse, in my case it did. We’ll get to that later but you probably felt much that I did. Emasculated is an understatement of how I felt, completely destroyed and devastated was how I felt. I was humiliated beyond what I could describe to you, I walked with my head down everywhere I went. Eventually I tried to kill myself I felt so humiliated and ashamed, I figured this was the only way to end the pain. I never thought I could get healthier, be happy, lose this feeling of shame and humiliation, but you can. 

Living the way I was at that point wasn’t living or even surviving, it was simply just existing and being on autopilot. This wasn’t working for me and I knew I needed help, but the help I needed I didn’t want, antidepressants. I made an appointment with my primary doctor, that appointment had me with the doctor for over two hours as I told her what I felt. Against her better judgement she allowed me to leave but with an appointment made by her with a therapist later that day. I began taking the medications and after finding one that worked best for me, I continued with therapy and medication. I am now going to therapy every six months, down from the every week that lasted three years. I was diagnosed with severe depression and PTSD, so if you’re depressed don’t take it lightly. 

Two days after my wife’s confession I found out I was not the biological father of my twins. They were two and a half when I found this out, biologically, they are the OM’s. That was another kick to the gut I later found had dropped me to my knees. I remember the feeling of standing in a field surrounded by ruins and smoldering ash was the best way to describe what I felt. Everything around me shattered, destroyed, and the why and how impossible to find. This was rock bottom for me, rising up from this was something I didn’t think was possible. I remember loving my wife and wanting her by my side, then wanting her to be as far away as possible. How could she do this to me? Why did she choose to do this? Could she not see what devastation and destruction would come from her choices she called a mistake? 

Your wife scuba, like mine, made a choice to have an affair. Your wife, like mine chose someone much older, and that needs to be addressed in therapy. Today my wife and I are just past four years in reconciliation, and not one day was easy. What we have learned I couldn’t possibly tell you in a post, but I will tell you your wife must first come to true remorse. Your wife needs to be vulnerable in ways she never imagined, she isn’t even close, but that’s not entirely her fault. That comes with time and acceptance to the choices she made, that comes with hard work in therapy where she self reflects. Now you know why I say to wait six months after filing, during that six months her ACTIONS will tell you all need to know. 

As for me, I made the best choice for me, nobody else. I am far stronger and healthier now then I have been in my entire life. I feel days of pure joy and happiness, some sad days, but I have come to peace in my life. I throw myself into my marriage as much as I do in raising MY boys, I’m involved fully without any outside interference. The hard work, the tears, the pain, all worth it in my opinion, because I am healthier and happier then I’ve ever been. I’ve grown as a person and embraced my faults, I’ve corrected them to the best of my ability, and I’ve become a better person and father. I am not perfect, never will be, but I am the best me I can possibly be each and every day. Personally I didn’t think this to be possible, but it is for you as much as it was me, and this is when peace begins to enter into your life. 

What I have shared with you scuba is a journey I went on. Just a fraction of what I encountered during this journey. Whether you divorce or reconcile, know that you will heal if you take the proper steps. Know that peace and happiness will enter your life again, know that the road is long and trying, but so very much worth it in the end. Today I am a little more then four years into reconciliation, we seem to be doing well, but we both work hard to be better. From the ashes and ruin I have stood up, I have put one foot in front of the other, I have survived, I am nearly healed, and now I live each day that is filled with value and purpose. You will make it to scuba, no matter what you decide, if you work hard on yourself to be a healthier person. Best of luck to you.


----------



## sokillme

It should be noted plenty of people divorce and have great long lives with other people full of joy. Cheaters rarely change and not without a lot of work and it's a hard life either way. Some folks just don't have the character to succeed in a long term relationship. You kids will be fine, you will be fine. You will have to go through the pain ether way but in the end who will you end up with. In my mind you should make the decision base on what your quality of life will be.


----------



## Taxman

Scuba, one of my clients as well found out his wife was sleeping with her extremely old boss. First thing he did was to have a word with boss' wife. The boss came home to his wife surrounded by her sons. They invoked a clause in their marriage contract. The next day, he was no longer in charge of his business, one of his sons was in his office when the wife walked in. He greeted her, and said that her husband had visited their mother last night, and as a result, her lover is now penniless and living in the streets. (not really, however he wanted a rise out of her). He went on to say that her husband had provided enough evidence that her lover's life is in ruins. Then, he fired her. He told her that she would never get a reference, and that if anyone inquired, he would let them know that you slept with the company president, and as a result, he is no longer in the company. She had no idea that her husband was on to her.

She came home to her husband. In the living room was her suitcases, packed and ready to go. She said she had nowhere to go, his response? Too damn bad, find the old fart and sponge off him. They're divorced now, and to add real insult? He has taken up with a significantly younger woman, and takes extreme pleasure in pointing out to his exW how young and firm and full of life she is. Then follows it up, I could never f*ck an old woman, they're old and wrinkly. I guess wrinkled old balls across your nose was a turn-on....she has nothing to say. She did find the OM. He wanted nothing to do with her, blamed her for the destruction of his world. 

Steve, blow her world up. File divorce and kick her out. Tell her it is up to her to EARN HER LIFE BACK. You have to blow up this marriage to save it, or to save yourself. If she does not earn it, then, you are well rid of her.


----------



## Gabriel

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> I’m going to tell you how I felt after my wife confessed to having an affair with an OM twenty five years her senior. Yep, my wife’s affair partner was twenty five years her senior, quite a kick to the gut, isn’t it? Not only did she have an affair, but with an OM old enough to be her father, I’m sure you’re thinking it couldn’t get any worse, in my case it did. We’ll get to that later but you probably felt much that I did. Emasculated is an understatement of how I felt, completely destroyed and devastated was how I felt. I was humiliated beyond what I could describe to you, I walked with my head down everywhere I went. Eventually I tried to kill myself I felt so humiliated and ashamed, I figured this was the only way to end the pain. I never thought I could get healthier, be happy, lose this feeling of shame and humiliation, but you can.
> 
> Living the way I was at that point wasn’t living or even surviving, it was simply just existing and being on autopilot. This wasn’t working for me and I knew I needed help, but the help I needed I didn’t want, antidepressants. I made an appointment with my primary doctor, that appointment had me with the doctor for over two hours as I told her what I felt. Against her better judgement she allowed me to leave but with an appointment made by her with a therapist later that day. I began taking the medications and after finding one that worked best for me, I continued with therapy and medication. I am now going to therapy every six months, down from the every week that lasted three years. I was diagnosed with severe depression and PTSD, so if you’re depressed don’t take it lightly.
> 
> Two days after my wife’s confession I found out I was not the biological father of my twins. They were two and a half when I found this out, biologically, they are the OM’s. That was another kick to the gut I later found had dropped me to my knees. I remember the feeling of standing in a field surrounded by ruins and smoldering ash was the best way to describe what I felt. Everything around me shattered, destroyed, and the why and how impossible to find. This was rock bottom for me, rising up from this was something I didn’t think was possible. I remember loving my wife and wanting her by my side, then wanting her to be as far away as possible. How could she do this to me? Why did she choose to do this? Could she not see what devastation and destruction would come from her choices she called a mistake?
> 
> Your wife scuba, like mine, made a choice to have an affair. Your wife, like mine chose someone much older, and that needs to be addressed in therapy. Today my wife and I are just past four years in reconciliation, and not one day was easy. What we have learned I couldn’t possibly tell you in a post, but I will tell you your wife must first come to true remorse. Your wife needs to be vulnerable in ways she never imagined, she isn’t even close, but that’s not entirely her fault. That comes with time and acceptance to the choices she made, that comes with hard work in therapy where she self reflects. Now you know why I say to wait six months after filing, during that six months her ACTIONS will tell you all need to know.
> 
> As for me, I made the best choice for me, nobody else. I am far stronger and healthier now then I have been in my entire life. I feel days of pure joy and happiness, some sad days, but I have come to peace in my life. I throw myself into my marriage as much as I do in raising MY boys, I’m involved fully without any outside interference. The hard work, the tears, the pain, all worth it in my opinion, because I am healthier and happier then I’ve ever been. I’ve grown as a person and embraced my faults, I’ve corrected them to the best of my ability, and I’ve become a better person and father. I am not perfect, never will be, but I am the best me I can possibly be each and every day. Personally I didn’t think this to be possible, but it is for you as much as it was me, and this is when peace begins to enter into your life.
> 
> What I have shared with you scuba is a journey I went on. Just a fraction of what I encountered during this journey. Whether you divorce or reconcile, know that you will heal if you take the proper steps. Know that peace and happiness will enter your life again, know that the road is long and trying, but so very much worth it in the end. Today I am a little more then four years into reconciliation, we seem to be doing well, but we both work hard to be better. From the ashes and ruin I have stood up, I have put one foot in front of the other, I have survived, I am nearly healed, and now I live each day that is filled with value and purpose. You will make it to scuba, no matter what you decide, if you work hard on yourself to be a healthier person. Best of luck to you.


Holy hell. If I ever found out any of my kids weren't mine I would not survive. It's my #1 nightmare. At 2.5 years old, that's a tough age. Not sure I would have taken the road you took, but my God, the strength you must have mustered is tremendous.


----------



## 3putt

Taxman said:


> Scuba, one of my clients as well found out his wife was sleeping with her extremely old boss. First thing he did was to have a word with boss' wife. The boss came home to his wife surrounded by her sons. They invoked a clause in their marriage contract. The next day, he was no longer in charge of his business, one of his sons was in his office when the wife walked in. He greeted her, and said that her husband had visited their mother last night, and as a result, her lover is now penniless and living in the streets. (not really, however he wanted a rise out of her). He went on to say that her husband had provided enough evidence that her lover's life is in ruins. Then, he fired her. He told her that she would never get a reference, and that if anyone inquired, he would let them know that you slept with the company president, and as a result, he is no longer in the company. She had no idea that her husband was on to her.
> 
> She came home to her husband. In the living room was her suitcases, packed and ready to go. She said she had nowhere to go, his response? Too damn bad, find the old fart and sponge off him. They're divorced now, and to add real insult? He has taken up with a significantly younger woman, and takes extreme pleasure in pointing out to his exW how young and firm and full of life she is. Then follows it up, I could never f*ck an old woman, they're old and wrinkly. I guess wrinkled old balls across your nose was a turn-on....she has nothing to say. She did find the OM. He wanted nothing to do with her, blamed her for the destruction of his world.
> 
> Steve, blow her world up. File divorce and kick her out. Tell her it is up to her to EARN HER LIFE BACK. You have to blow up this marriage to save it, or to save yourself. If she does not earn it, then, you are well rid of her.


----------



## skerzoid

Taxman said:


> Scuba, one of my clients as well found out his wife was sleeping with her extremely old boss. First thing he did was to have a word with boss' wife. The boss came home to his wife surrounded by her sons. They invoked a clause in their marriage contract. The next day, he was no longer in charge of his business, one of his sons was in his office when the wife walked in. He greeted her, and said that her husband had visited their mother last night, and as a result, her lover is now penniless and living in the streets. (not really, however he wanted a rise out of her). He went on to say that her husband had provided enough evidence that her lover's life is in ruins. Then, he fired her. He told her that she would never get a reference, and that if anyone inquired, he would let them know that you slept with the company president, and as a result, he is no longer in the company. She had no idea that her husband was on to her.
> 
> She came home to her husband. In the living room was her suitcases, packed and ready to go. She said she had nowhere to go, his response? Too damn bad, find the old fart and sponge off him. They're divorced now, and to add real insult? He has taken up with a significantly younger woman, and takes extreme pleasure in pointing out to his exW how young and firm and full of life she is. Then follows it up, I could never f*ck an old woman, they're old and wrinkly. I guess wrinkled old balls across your nose was a turn-on....she has nothing to say. She did find the OM. He wanted nothing to do with her, blamed her for the destruction of his world.
> 
> Steve, blow her world up. File divorce and kick her out. Tell her it is up to her to EARN HER LIFE BACK. You have to blow up this marriage to save it, or to save yourself. If she does not earn it, then, you are well rid of her.


Sounds like she got hit by the Karma Freight Train.>


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## Scuba_Steve

You guys are right again. She had sex with the OM more than 5 times. While I was looking through the emails I found two emails that show they meet way more than 5 times. How many more times I don’t know and at this point i don’t care. I’m done with her I want nothing to do with her. I give her a chance and she blow it. she clearly doesn’t give **** about. And if that wasn’t enough this morning I got e-z pass ticket in NJ. Anybody want take a guess who lives in NJ. Yes the grandpa does. So she drove my brand new car to go see her OM. I barley drive this car myself It has less than 2,000. Yet she thinks it’s fine to drive my car to go see her OM. I’m so done with her. 

Now my new plan is simple
1)Find a I like lawyer 
2)File for divorce 
3)Go see my accountant 
4)Expose the affair to grandpa wife
5)Prepare to move out.


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## Beach123

Great post Taxman


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## sokillme

Man, you have it in you to have a good marriage. You are a faithful partner. This is why the best play is to just divorce and move on. You are 32 years old. You grieve, you get some counseling, you heal. You work on your picker just in case and use the wisdom you gained from this situation to pick a better class of person. Then you have the dream, a good marriage and a happy life. Your wife on the other hand is the kind of person who in the long run is a nightmare to be married to. In the end the lies, the inability to live openly. The desperate bottomless need for attention. The poor boundaries just make people like her toxic. The truth is, assuming you are emotionally healthy, you will get to the point where it's just not worth it anyway. Noting kills love if you are an emotional healthy person quicker then a complete lack of respect. (That's for a healthy person now.) Some people just don't have it in them to be married. Your wife has shown signs she is one of those people.

You are making a big mistake thinking you can love this type of person into being a good spouse. You have NO control over her. It's like some people are good athletes and some are not. Now maybe if she was willing to do a lot of hard work but that takes a lifetime commitment. And still you have to deal with the fallout from her actions with you. You are still so young that is a lot to sacrifice for someone who may not even be all in.


----------



## Beach123

Close her bank accounts and credit cards today. Change the locks on the house after you pack her one bag. Set it out on the porch for her to pick up.


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## sa58

Scuba Steve

You may need two lawyers
One for the divorce and one for your
work situation. Since Om, you and her
work at the same place.


----------



## Marc878

Do not give away your plans. You don’t need to tell her anything until you get your plan in place



Keep your documentation in a safe place.


----------



## sa58

Can you get her phone back from her.
If you can keep it and see if you 
can get anything else from it.
Information from it may help with
the divorce.


----------



## oldtruck

Time for a work place exposure.


----------



## sokillme

sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> 
> You may need two lawyers
> One for the divorce and one for your
> work situation. Since Om, you and her
> work at the same place.


If this is the case I would see what I could get out of the place. That is not going to be a good deal for them. Use that.


----------



## Taxman

When I represent the betrayed spouse, it does my heart a world of good when the betrayer is left alone and isolated. It encourages me that there is some justice in the world. Scuba Steve, take this for what it is worth. Get into the drivers seat. Do not give her an inch, let her know that she is standing in your home by your good graces alone. Let her know that she can be removed, and replaced in your kids' lives with a nanny. That you can remove her, and make it difficult if not impossible to get even a vestige of her old life. Let her know that if this gets out, she can be portrayed as a gold-digger, praying on an old man, or a pervert, who likes them old and wrinkled, a homewrecker preying on old couples. Let her know if you shoot your mouth off, there isn't a place in town that she can show her face without a horse laugh or two. My client in my earlier post said he walked around his wife for an hour letting her know what he was going to do to her. She was begging to be left alone, promising sexual fantasies with her and several girlfriends, letting him have a one sided open marriage if he allowed her to stay. He told her point blank, that he would never touch her again. The thought of being where an old f*ck had shot his load, was disgusting. He told her that the sight of her was nauseating, and if anyone let him know that someone was f8cking her, he'd be sure to let them know that you get wet at the sight of stained depends. He had no compunction about letting their entire social group, then populace at large in their town what she had done. She was a laughingstock. It was made much worse when her exH took up with a woman much much younger. She wants to leave their town, but the last bond there is their child, who she gets to see once every other week. (Oh yeah, it was supposed to be joint custody, and the jurisdiction will only change that rule when something heinous occurrs, the judge was advised of her behavior, and wanted a full psych consult before custody was awarded. Apparently, she failed the psych test)


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

The main thing right now is to stay claim
gather as much evidence as you can.
Plan everything out that you can.
Do not blow up on her and expose 
what you are going to do. Once she
knows that divorce and exposure 
is going to happen she will lie,
and do everything she can 
to protect herself. Think about 
the deception and lies she 
has all ready told.


----------



## Marc878

The problem now is you know she’s minimizing.probably the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> You guys are right again. She had sex with the OM more than 5 times. While I was looking through the emails I found two emails that show they meet way more than 5 times. How many more times I don’t know and at this point i don’t care. I’m done with her I want nothing to do with her. I give her a chance and she blow it. she clearly doesn’t give **** about. And if that wasn’t enough this morning I got e-z pass ticket in NJ. Anybody want take a guess who lives in NJ. Yes the grandpa does. So she drove my brand new car to go see her OM. I barley drive this car myself It has less than 2,000. Yet she thinks it’s fine to drive my car to go see her OM. I’m so done with her.
> 
> Now my new plan is simple
> 1)Find a I like lawyer
> 2)File for divorce
> 3)Go see my accountant
> 4)Expose the affair to grandpa wife
> 5)Prepare to move out.


1- 4 => Great
5 => She moves. 

She banged him so many times she can't count how many times. 

Sorry. 

Cheaters are all alike. They lie, they minimize. Whatever. 

When she asks why you are filing tell her you even lie when you say you are sorry. Remind her that her words are self serving and meaningless. Empty. That you don't need that in your life as a wife. That's the definition of a ex wife.


----------



## Malaise

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> 1- 4 => Great
> 5 => She moves.
> 
> She banged him so many times she can't count how many times.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Cheaters are all alike. They lie, they minimize. Whatever.
> 
> *When she asks why you are filing tell her *you even lie when you say you are sorry. Remind her that her words are self serving and meaningless. Empty. That you don't need in your life as a wife. That's the definition of a ex wife.


"New Jersey"


----------



## Marc878

Your feelings will change back and forth, day by day. Keep digging.

Sorry man


----------



## stro

well that sucks, though not a shock. I was hoping she would be forthcoming. Now it’s time for you to be resolute and stick to your plan. You have made the right choice. Also, remember you are on a rollercoaster of emotions. You may start to doubt your plan at some point in the near future but remember, the facts don’t lie. This is your only option.


----------



## sa58

Have her served at work!


----------



## TAMAT

It was predictable that this would happen because an affair is a very very powerful addiction, so her going back to the OM is like a drunk going back to a bar, I'm not sure if that helps, but it's the one of the main reasons relapses occur so often.

Perhaps wait and demand a polygraph, there may be more OM and they all need to be taken down. 

Let her know that your child will be told the story when she is old enough to understand.

Tamat


----------



## 3putt

TAMAT said:


> It was predictable that this would happen because an affair is a very very powerful addiction, so her going back to the OM is like a drunk going back to a bar, I'm not sure if that helps, but it's the one of the main reasons relapses occur so often.
> 
> Perhaps wait and demand a polygraph, there may be more OM and they all need to be taken down.
> 
> *Let her know that your child will be told the story when she is old enough to understand.
> *
> Tamat


I wouldn't do that. He forewarns her of his intentions then she will be filling her head with all kinds of lies and crap to justify/rationalize things. Just tell her on her when she is old enough to understand.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Steve, did she actually go to New Jersey after you confronted her or is it an old EZ pass ticket?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Malaise said:


> "New Jersey"


He can also mimic her with "I don't know why I am divorcing you". "Like you don't know why you slept with him 100 times".


----------



## sa58

Steve
We know she cleaned the phone probably
when she went to her mothers house.
I know someone ask this all ready but 
how long after she says the affair ended
did she kept it under her pillow?
Maybe she was hoping it would start
again or it never really ended.


----------



## sa58

Since she has lied so much and continues
she may not agree to a polygraph. If
you set one up and she does have a recorder
with you just in case you get more confessions
in the parking lot ." I forgot about " type stuff


----------



## TAMAT

I didn't mention in the prior post but sorry to hear this too,

OM3 in my Ws case had a walker he used when my W took him out, it was completely revolting to me and one of the things which sticks with me, her folding and putting his walker in the trunk after helping him sit down. 

OM3 was about 35 or so years older than my W, so that meant at the time I would have had to wait a few years to date a woman of say 25 to get the same age gap. That thought might bring some consolation for you. 

Tamat


----------



## Thor

Marc878 said:


> Do not give away your plans. You don’t need to tell her anything until you get your plan in place
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your documentation in a safe place.


Just to echo the above. STFU about anything with your wife to do with R or D. Tell her you need some quiet time, or that you're feeling worn down right now and need a break from conversations with her. Basically, stall her and don't reveal anything to her.

Get your legal ducks in a row, then hit her with the D.

You'll need to get all your financials for the lawyer. Every bank account, credit card, car loan, mortgage, investment account, retirement account, etc. Make, model, year, and current book value of all vehicles. List any exceptionally valuable items like jewelry or art etc which is worth many thousands. Your lawyer will need this info to draft up the paperwork on assets to be split.

Get hard copies of all the latest statements from all of these accounts, as well as electronic copies of as much as you can. Also copies of tax returns for as far back as you can. Keep these in a very safe location, like a safe deposit box your stbxw doesn't know about.

Get originals if you have them of passports and birth certificates for the kids. Your marriage license. Social security cards (or at least the numbers if you can't get the physical cards). A copy of your stbxw's birth certificate, passport, and SS card if you can.

This is now a legal matter, not a personal matter. You need to be organized and ahead of the game if you want things to go smoothly and inexpensively. And you don't want to have to rely on her to get you copies of documents or account details!

You will want a snapshot from today of every account balance. This is to prove your current financial situation, so if she suddenly withdraws a bunch of cash or suddenly runs up debt then you can recoup it in the divorce.

Don't hide assets! It is certainly fair game for you to have your paycheck deposited into a new account in only your name. It is fair game to take half the cash from current joint accounts. But don't hide this. Make sure it is declared in your divorce paperwork. Judges hate it when someone tries to hide assets! Also be sure you are still paying the bills and contributing your share to all the regular household expenses.

Think of this moment as when you are financially separating your affairs from hers. You pay for your own clothes, gas in your car, etc. She gets none of your pay, and you none of hers.

Ask your atty if you can legally change beneficiaries on all of your accounts like life insurance and retirement accounts. Some states make it difficult to take a spouse off, but your state may allow it easily. Down the road you will need a new will and new medical directives. It may make sense to change those now if it can be done simply. This is not a critical item today, but something to keep in mind when you can get to it. I didn't change mine until the divorce was finalized, but it only took 4 months so it wasn't a long time.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Indeed to above. No matter how mad you are do not telegraph your plans, just do it. Even if that means lying to her. 

Don't forget how many times she lied to you. Do what it takes to move forward including lying. 

What ever you do do not move out until your attorney says it is ok. 

Plus do not have sex with her! It negates an infidelity charge.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Steve, did she actually go to New Jersey after you confronted her or is it an old EZ pass ticket?


It's an old ticket from February, which she never paid.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Trust me, I won't be telling her anything. She can find out about divorce when she's served.


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> You guys are right again. She had sex with the OM more than 5 times. While I was looking through the emails I found two emails that show they meet way more than 5 times. How many more times I don’t know and at this point i don’t care. I’m done with her I want nothing to do with her. I give her a chance and she blow it. she clearly doesn’t give **** about. And if that wasn’t enough this morning I got e-z pass ticket in NJ. Anybody want take a guess who lives in NJ. Yes the grandpa does. So she drove my brand new car to go see her OM. I barley drive this car myself It has less than 2,000. Yet she thinks it’s fine to drive my car to go see her OM. I’m so done with her.
> 
> Now my new plan is simple
> 1)Find a I like lawyer
> 2)File for divorce
> 3)Go see my accountant
> 4)Expose the affair to grandpa wife
> 5)Prepare to move out.


1, 2, 3, 4, - Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, 5. She moves.

Have her served at work.


----------



## sa58

Be nice and try and get her phone again 
Lie and tell her you need to look at it
longer. Get as much data as you can
from it. Especially the snap chat pictures.
It will help in the divorce


----------



## sa58

Sorry did not mention it 
But check with your lawyer and 
see what evidence is legal.
If she gave you her E-mails, 
phone then it should be.


----------



## Satya

You should go to every lawyer you can in the area and get a consultation, so that she can't and it'll be harder on her to find representation.
Be prepared.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> It's an old ticket from February, which she never paid.


Put the ticket in the divorce petition as an affair expense. Pull all the EZ Pass logs going back in time. Add the tolls too. Add the VS lingerie also. Comes out of her half.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

We are all sorry this happened to you

The main thing in all of this is to take care
of yourself. You may find more things
later that she has been hiding. 

Take care of yourself first!


----------



## DjDjani

Scuba, find a good lawyer, give him all the evidence, tell the OM wife, file for the divorce. Sue the company. If your wife starts to beg, tell her you want her to take a poligraf, when she tell you she doesnt want to take poligraf, you will know that she is lying about everything. DNA the kid. Sorry man.


----------



## Chaparral

sa58 said:


> Be nice and try and get her phone again
> Lie and tell her you need to look at it
> longer. Get as much data as you can
> from it. Especially the snap chat pictures.
> It will help in the divorce


And check out the gps maps. Some keep track of where the phone has been.


----------



## sa58

She is without a doubt still probably
communicating with OM somehow
Maybe at work. He probably knows 
that she has told you also. He may 
try and cover his tracks with Grandma
by telling her lies. The more evidence 
you have to show Grandma the better.
Unless she doesn't really care.


----------



## Marc878

Have your attorney check for Alienation of Affection Laws in your state


----------



## Evinrude58

Aw hell, give her another chance. 

At least you kno she’s consistent.

I’d talk to two lawyers as well. 

I’d not tell her anything until my plan for revenge was in place. And yes, I said revenge, and yes, I turn no it would help. Nothing more than providing opportunity for her own actions to dig her own hole.

I’d still recommend using her desire to “reconcile” to get her to file sexual her. Charges against OM, before I sued myself. That clown needs to be rewarded for doing his part.


----------



## sa58

Steve

Some newer cars have GPS systems 
If yours does check that as well
May be dealer or mechanic can


----------



## Cynthia

I'm sorry, Steve. This really stinks.

Regarding the attorney, please buy at least one book about divorce in your state and read it. It could save you a lot of time, headache, and money if you know in advance what your rights and responsibilities are as well as what the process is. If you already understand how it all works, you don't have to wrack up a bill getting answers from your attorney. Plus it's a lot harder to take advantage of someone who knows what's going on.

Change the locks on your bedroom door to a key lock. Move all her stuff out and into the spare room. Do not leave your house. If anyone should leave it is her and she should not take your child with her until or unless you have a custody agreement in place.

Decide in advance and be prepared to call 911 should she do anything violent or threatening. If you change the locks, she could become violent. Don't change the locks on the house. Only on your bedroom.




Scuba_Steve said:


> You guys are right again. She had sex with the OM more than 5 times. While I was looking through the emails I found two emails that show they meet way more than 5 times. How many more times I don’t know and at this point i don’t care. I’m done with her I want nothing to do with her. I give her a chance and she blow it. she clearly doesn’t give **** about. And if that wasn’t enough this morning I got e-z pass ticket in NJ. Anybody want take a guess who lives in NJ. Yes the grandpa does. So she drove my brand new car to go see her OM. I barley drive this car myself It has less than 2,000. Yet she thinks it’s fine to drive my car to go see her OM. I’m so done with her.
> 
> Now my new plan is simple
> 1)Find a I like lawyer
> 2)File for divorce
> 3)Go see my accountant
> 4)Expose the affair to grandpa wife
> 5)Prepare to move out.


----------



## Evinrude58

Don’t let her know anything if you intend on divorcing, until you see a lawyer. See the ones you think she might get that are reputable, so she can’t use them... just a ffree consult... 

Start plAnning your life without her. 
Actively working on a new life without her WILL make you feel a little better.

I know the pain is excruciating. But it’s about time your wife started feeling a little. Don’t you think?


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

It seems to me that your company should be in a world of hurt over this. Alienation of affection, unsafe workplace, sexual harassment, etc. I think you could own the place. And this being the corporate capital of the world, there should be a ton of precedents in this type of stuff. 

Make sure you have a real hungry shark, preferably a great white, on retainer here. Threaten exposure to media, family, friends, anybody who will listen.


----------



## sa58

I think the big thing is going to be
data recovery from her phone if
he can get it. If it has a computer 
in it. Then it can be hacked or tracked.
She has tried to cover up as much as
she can however. I would really think about
work place exposure HR. I do not think she really
cares about divorce maybe just how it will make her
look. Work pace exposure will make them both
look bad. 

She said the affair stopped in Nov. then restarted
in Jan. Someone said I know maybe Christmas break
and maybe she was keeping the phone safe because she 
thought it could start again. Until Steve confronted 
her hen she cleaned the phone, Either way she is still
lying and trickle truth. 

I think she only cares about her image and how she looks
to everybody. I might be wrong but just the way she is
acting I think so.


----------



## GusPolinski

Scuba_Steve said:


> Trust me, I won't be telling her anything. She can find out about divorce when she's served.


Read up on and implement the 180.


----------



## Cynthia

GusPolinski said:


> Read up on and implement the 180.


https://affaircare.com/the-180/


----------



## drifting on

Marc878 said:


> Have your attorney check for Alienation of Affection Laws in your state




Also the laws for New Jersey, as you know it happened there too. You can file the lawsuit in either stare as it occurred in either state.


----------



## sokillme

Most importantly detach emotionally from your wife. In your head start imagining a GOOD future without her. With hope. Like I said you have proven you can do this marriage thing, which makes you valuable. 

If you are serious about divorce then I don't think you need a polygraph. Get the evidence you need to move forward and get the best deal but no need to expend any more emotional energy on her. The best way to get any kid of justice is to just ghost emotionally. The stories where the spouse does that always finds the WS really having a hard time. Plus it give you all the power. 

The ones where the BS is emotional and starts a war usually in the end just seems like a waste of energy.


----------



## Evinrude58

I not only agree with ghosting her, I believe zero, ZERO contact is the fastest way out of the pain. Along well th starting to rebuild one’s life without the cheater.

This person occupying your wife’s body is not you wife. She killed that person when she cheated. That deed led to compartmentalization and rejection of you in order to keep her mind from feeling overwhelming guilt. You have to try and remember that your wife is gone, and it’s time you moved forward. Moving forward will get you out of the hurt the fastest. It will still take a long time.

Sorry you’re having to endure it.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Steve, ezpass takes 5-6 weeks before you get the mail. That was probably your first notice. It would say if it was a second notice.

You telling us we were right, she slept with him more than 5 times, was like us telling you there will be at least one day of rain this month. It's a practical certainty that a cheater will lie and mimimize. Especially the way you reacted (too nice)(I told you-you must show strength). Cheaters are bold and they are tremendous risk takers. They would be great gamblers. They let it ride over and over and over again.

People told you from your first post to file divorce. Almost every single time, it takes filing for divorce for the cheater to start paying attention to what the betrayed wants. If every one went through with divorce if the cheater lied about how much sex, then practically no one would ever reconcile. Although you wouldn't believe how many betrayed will tolerate the lying.

But when you first posted, you were not ready to believe the anons here telling you this. I think a lot of us are just like you, Steve. I personally must have read hundreds of wives turn into science fiction aliens, looks and sounds just like the wife, but they're not. Impostors. Pod people.

About the amount of sex they had - only five times was a possibility, unlikely, but possible. However, if it was only five times, then there would have been a huge amount of oral or handjobs. Steve, that old dude had to act like he was interested in your wife's conversation. He had to spend hours on the phone, texting, calling, making believe he cares about her. With that amount of work (I personally think it's not worth the effort), he would have been doing something sexual with her EVERY SINGLE DAY. 

MORE THAN ONCE A DAY.

Do you remember in an early relationship, when you can't leave your hands off of her? Well, you may have held back a little, or more than a little, because you respected, really liked her, and you wanted not to be too much of a horndog because you wanted a future with her. None of that was true with gramps. He knew this had a very short shelf life, and he would have gotten at her every single time. And she would let him, because she didn't want to turn off the faucet of compliments.

You are ready now. Filing may make her ready. I give it a 25% chance. As opposed to before filing, about 2%. If they don't come clean immediately (the 2%), it almost always takes the filing. The stats are mine. Anyone can read all of the threads here, especially the old ones that have been resolved, and calculate the percentages. 

When you file, don't let off the gas until you get everything you need.

The problem is, it's bad enough to put up with the cheating. Many can't put up with the lying afterwards. I personally think most marriages end after an affair because of the lying AFTER being caught than the affair itself. If the cheater would just come clean and tell the truth, you'd be working on the marriage now, as I suspect most would. But the truth is, very few cheaters can't do that.


----------



## Edmund

Beach123 said:


> Great post Taxman


Taxman knocks it out of the park every time.


----------



## Gabriel

No shocker here. Sorry Steve. Seems you have a good plan and are focused. Stick to it, do not waver. 

I echo what others have said. She is the one that should move out. 

Hug your child. Pour your heart and soul into him/her (?). He/she will need it.

Do not give one more ounce of care or affection for this woman. 

Please keep us posted - we like hearing the betrayed stick up for themselves and win.


----------



## Chuck71

Ey yo... Steve..... process all this at your own speed. Don't make irrational choices. If you are

dead set on D.... listen to the posters.... map out a timeline of what you will do, in order.

I do hope you expose Granddaddy Longlegs... his W may be ready to take him to the cleaners

after the news. She gave up a H and child (family) for a user.... he won't keep her, bet the farm and mine too.

Read each response we posters give, take notes..... and take a deep breath.

You're going to be okay.... I've been here since 2012.... I know..... you will make it through the rain.

If not.... we posters will drag you through the rain to make it LOL.... light humor.

I remember NY divorces from ReGroup thread. Try to get at least 50 / 50 but if there's any way possible

60 / 40.... hopefully that will lower CS. Try to hash out who pays what in school supplies, after care, etc...

if that can be done, it may eradicate CS even at 50 / 50... but it's a long shot.

Take it day by day, hour by hour if you need to. Virtually everybody here was telling you

what you found out. It wasn't that we just hated your W but we see this, like clockwork.

Granted I am generalizing but most of your posters, I know from other threads.... they're telling you

the honest hard truth. If you're stressed.... rant here...... just post rant on/ and rant off/

Hell I do that and I'm not M LOL


----------



## poida

So, 3 months - that sounds about the normal amount of time to be f*cked around by a cheating wh*re.
Things will get better but be patient. 
My best advice in your situation is to "sit with" the pain when it arises. 
It will help you subconsciously process it and allow you to cope.
See a counselor if you can afford one. It will help you understand what happened.


----------



## manfromlamancha

manfromlamancha said:


> So did she tell you how it started ? Who initiated ? How it ended ? Who ended it ?


Steve, I still maintain that she needs to give you (her versions of) answers to the above questions. Even if she lies there is a lot to be gained by getting these answers from her.

If she says she started or initiated then she is obliged to tell you why or what made her initiate it. She also may tell you what his initial response was which will tell you what she really thinks of him.

What is more likely is she will say that he initiated it (which may also be closer to the truth). If so, she will need to tell you how much pursuing he had to do to get her to drop her pants and that may not correspond with the emails etc you have found.

Then comes the question of how it ended - who ended it etc - the answer to this will also get you lots of info to check up on.


----------



## inging

Hi ScubaSteve

Very sorry it has gone this way. It may be small comfort but it almost always plays out like this.

It is now time to play the long game. Without any shadow of doubt the most important thing you have is access to your kid.

At the very best you are going to lose 1/2 the time you see your kid while growing up. Yes. Half.

If access is important to you then.
Do
Not
Move
Out

Ask her to move. She may refuse but I suspect she will jump at it. This is so she can be "single and separated" which will allow her to see schmoopie at all times. 

Prepare for much worse in terms of discoveries but do not actively look for them. You have enough information

Prepare for her to be angry. 
Do not under any circumstances agree to being a weekend dad. 

Take a breather now.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> You guys are right again. She had sex with the OM more than 5 times. While I was looking through the emails I found two emails that show they meet way more than 5 times. How many more times I don’t know and at this point i don’t care. I’m done with her I want nothing to do with her. I give her a chance and she blow it. she clearly doesn’t give **** about. And if that wasn’t enough this morning I got e-z pass ticket in NJ. Anybody want take a guess who lives in NJ. Yes the grandpa does. So she drove my brand new car to go see her OM. I barley drive this car myself It has less than 2,000. Yet she thinks it’s fine to drive my car to go see her OM. I’m so done with her.
> 
> Now my new plan is simple
> 1)Find a I like lawyer
> 2)File for divorce
> 3)Go see my accountant
> 4)Expose the affair to grandpa wife
> 5)Prepare to move out.


Sounds like you may finally be done and the anger is starting to set in. Good. That anger, when used in a controlled fashion, can be a useful motivational tool.

Time to start putting your plan into action. Be calm, be smart, but be angry.

Consult a multitude of lawyers. The more you consult with, the fewer options you leave her to choose from.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

When you say grandpa .. actually how old is this dude? My wife is 39 and her soulmate is 51. Boggles my mind but their first go around she was 30 and he was 42. I swear there's something with whatever her childhood issue was that affected her, her entire life, it involves an older man. There were other older men I think she had eyes for as well. All customers of hers. Some she used just to boost her ego with compliments and then the customer she had the prior and current go around with.


----------



## ABHale

Steve I am sorry for the pain you are going through. 

I am also glad you finally see your wife for who/what she really is. 

Find a lawyer. Then see the other top 5 law firms for the free consultation. That way your wife can’t use them. 

Do not leave your daughter or your home. Your girl is going to need you. If anyone leaves it should be your wife. Also kick her out of the master bedroom. Take it back like your taking back your life.


----------



## Taxman

Scuba, you have a good plan. Blow them up! When she comes crying to you on her knees to beg your forgiveness, you can say no. Make old fart's world so difficult that he rues the day he ever met your wife. End her career. End her friendships. End her family life. End her finances. Even in a no fault state, there are ways to make her bleed. One client knew that everything was going to be divided. She was the higher earner, and much more savvy. She quietly removed their cash and securities to a numbered account which was accessible anywhere in the world. She sold several joint assets. Their home had been in her name before the marriage. It went up on the market, on a private sale. No signs, few if any showings. Once sold, she timed closing for the date that she committed her final act. She disappeared. She wanted no financial settlement, as she wanted it all, and essentially she got it all. By the time he knew anything, it was gone. She knew that she could not tell me, as I can be compelled to testify, no privilege attaches when you talk to me. Her lawyer knows, and cannot be coerced into divulging her whereabouts. Suffice to say, she is living somewhere tropical. She has enough to last a lifetime, and then some. He will never find her. I do not completely recommend this, however, she wanted her pound of flesh and she got it.

Steve, one last thing, the OM is very high up in the company that both of you work at. You are going to go to OM's superior, with your evidence. You are going to let them know that a major lawsuit is coming their way. You will be suing for tens of millions. You want say in what happens to wifey and her lover. OM should be fired ASAP. Let it become public so that your wife is a laughingstock. That way if she quits, you are not on any hook. Can you imagine what will be said behind her back? "Do prunes make you horny" or "Do you like your balls shrivelled?" No woman wants her sex life on display for all to see. This gets out, I predict one thing. Diarrhea for both of them.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Since you confronted her, what has her attitude been? Remorse at all? Entitled? 

2. Who have you exposed to so far?

3. The other man's wife may not be receptive. He has probably done this before so be prepared. Do not let WW know you are doing this.

4. In all things, do as your lawyer advises. Keep him informed.

5. Serving her at work will hurt because she is so conscious of her reputation. Maybe take a sick day that day so you are not there when she is served.

6. After she is served, you may want to ghost her for a while, go to a hotel or a friend's house. Do not respond if she blows up your phone.

7. Let her stew. She didn't give crap about your feelings. Do everything on your schedule, not hers. She needs to see a new Steve.

8. The people you are dealing with are beneath contempt and think you are a foot rug. Time to toughen up. *No More Mister Nice Guy!* Show them you are no one to "F" with.


----------



## Suspicious1

stillfightingforus said:


> When you say grandpa .. actually how old is this dude? My wife is 39 and her soulmate is 51. Boggles my mind but their first go around she was 30 and he was 42. I swear there's something with whatever her childhood issue was that affected her, her entire life, it involves an older man. There were other older men I think she had eyes for as well. All customers of hers. Some she used just to boost her ego with compliments and then the customer she had the prior and current go around with.


I believe Steve said his wife and him are both 32. 
Gramps is twice their age!

Certainly a nightmare for dear Steve.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

stillfightingforus said:


> When you say grandpa .. actually how old is this dude? My wife is 39 and her soulmate is 51. Boggles my mind but their first go around she was 30 and he was 42. I swear there's something with whatever her childhood issue was that affected her, her entire life, it involves an older man. There were other older men I think she had eyes for as well. All customers of hers. Some she used just to boost her ego with compliments and then the customer she had the prior and current go around with.


51 isn’t old.


----------



## Taxman

If I were to bet, I would say that the fu*ck you that Steve got is sufficient to end the marriage. This is a scorched earth situation if I ever saw one. Steve should be able to ditch the bi+ch, keep most of his money, and destroy the OM. At the end of the day, SS's wife should be standing in the middle of the burnt spot wondering what the hell happened? The OM should be sitting under a bridge wondering where his wife, children, job and home have all gone, then he remembers the 32 year old bi tch that he banged, whose husband went all out to destroy him, and how his wife, children, company and world turned against him. Awwwwwwwwwww my heart bleeds for the both of them. 

May Steve have a good outcome like Cromer. New woman, good life great prospects. The wife all alone. Boo hoo. Her life done. The OM, his life done. Justice.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

bandit.45 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you say grandpa .. actually how old is this dude? My wife is 39 and her soulmate is 51. Boggles my mind but their first go around she was 30 and he was 42. I swear there's something with whatever her childhood issue was that affected her, her entire life, it involves an older man. There were other older men I think she had eyes for as well. All customers of hers. Some she used just to boost her ego with compliments and then the customer she had the prior and current go around with.
> 
> 
> 
> 51 isn’t old.
Click to expand...

In actuality it isn't but just from a shallow point of view what she left me for. 13 years older than me, bald, fake teeth, in good shape now since the affair started though. He had a pot belly from the pics I saw when they met again at first back in May. He's twice married and both of his kids have kids. Also has had 2 or 3 heart attacks. But like his wife told me when she didn't believe me back in November. He's an alpha male, everyone's friend and she could see why my wife might be attracted to him, that she wasn't the first. So essentially to the fogged he's and alpha super good guy! In reality, he's a narcissist cheater that can get away with it and has women battling over a $h** prize!


----------



## seadoug105

Scuba,

You are getting a lot of advice here that might scare you! And I understand that! From what you posted, you are in love with the woman you married and probably don't want to hurt her..... 


What you have to remember is this is not the woman you married! That woman died some time ago and was replaced by the woman you see now. This was confirmed, when faced with losing you she was given the potential of second chance but she had to come clean. And in here attempt to come clean, she LIED to you.... 

Why?? Because she is protecting whatever it was that she had, and to her that was more important to her than your relationship... and by your relationship being less important too her so are you.

Let me rephrase that.... 

Why?? Because YOU are less important than whatever she wants to protect!


Now does that sound like the woman you married the woman you loved???? 


I now return you to your previously scheduled, and excellent advice!


SeaDoug


----------



## TDSC60

In one of his last posts Steve referred to getting his wife served. I assume he means divorce papers. 

For me timelines, who, and how would be just to satisfy curiosity. The fact that my wife would willingly have sex with another man is enough for me to divorce her ASAP. I don't think I could ever touch her again without thoughts of him with her flashing in my brain. R would be impossible for me. 

Hope Steve comes back with another update.


----------



## BluesPower

*I really hope you are right about this...*



Taxman said:


> If I were to bet, I would say that the fu*ck you that Steve got is sufficient to end the marriage. This is a scorched earth situation if I ever saw one. Steve should be able to ditch the bi+ch, keep most of his money, and destroy the OM. At the end of the day, SS's wife should be standing in the middle of the burnt spot wondering what the hell happened? The OM should be sitting under a bridge wondering where his wife, children, job and home have all gone, then he remembers the 32 year old bi tch that he banged, whose husband went all out to destroy him, and how his wife, children, company and world turned against him. Awwwwwwwwwww my heart bleeds for the both of them.
> 
> May Steve have a good outcome like Cromer. New woman, good life great prospects. The wife all alone. Boo hoo. Her life done. The OM, his life done. Justice.


I really hope you are right about this... I really do. She deserves what is coming. 

While she is not the worst one I have seen, she is up there. The lying (duh) is bad enough, but screwing her boss, and tat boy, at the place that they both worked!!! 

And we all know the she was screwing both of them, maybe not at the same time, but yeah, she was doing both of them. 

I hope she is left with a suit case on the side of the road by what used to be her house.


----------



## Suspicious1

*Re: I really hope you are right about this...*



BluesPower said:


> I really hope you are right about this... I really do. She deserves what is coming.
> 
> While she is not the worst one I have seen, she is up there. The lying (duh) is bad enough, but screwing her boss, and tat boy, at the place that they both worked!!!
> 
> And we all know the she was screwing both of them, maybe not at the same time, but yeah, she was doing both of them.
> 
> I hope she is left with a suit case on the side of the road by what used to be her house.



I wouldn't really date someone at my work place just because of all the emotions and potential distractions that can reverberate if things go south!

Now at a thrid person into that mix not to mention vows, I can't imagine what was this woman was thinking playing such dangerous games!

Tat boy?? I missed that post, wasn't aware he was taking turns as well. If that's the case she really dislikes Steve.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Scuba_Steve

The reason I plan on moving out is because I don’t want the house. I would be more than happy leaving it to her. 

I done with her. I don’t need or want to know anything more about the affair. I’ve already decided I want a divorce. I don’t care when the affair started, ended, if she ****ed him 50 times or if she was the one who ended it. I’m done with gathering more evidence I have more than enough to prove the affair. Besides she’s a proven liar, no point in asking her more questions knowing she going to lie. 

I already made appointments with 3 lawyers, one on Thursday and two Friday. I wanted to use the lawyer her parents use but I was scared he might tip her off. 

I don’t remember who said it but I’ve taken pictures and print outs of all you Bank account as of yesterday. We don’t have any joint credit cards so that isn’t a problem. 

I can't prove she did anything with the tattoo boss and I don't think she did but what do I know.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sa58 said:


> Steve
> 
> Some newer cars have GPS systems
> If yours does check that as well
> May be dealer or mechanic can


Already did, I talked BMW asked them about they sent me over to a tech who walked me through how to set up my account online to view my cars every location and date/time it was there.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

What steps have you taken to protect yourself when she is 
serve. I would as others keep your phone close by and maybe 
put a VAR in the rooms you are staying in. She may become
violent and even call the police on you.. Glad to hear you are
making progress and taking care of yourself.


----------



## Taxman

@SEADoug
And that is the reason we counsel him to be punitive with both parties. She basically ditched Steve for the old fart. Let that image sink into her head, when Steve has her served. When she asks why, which in my experience will happen within five minutes of being served. It never fails to floor me. People fu ck others with wild abandon, then when caught, they actually have the testicular fortitude to ask why their spouse wants to divorce.

One woman was served at her office. The bailiff walked in, called her name, when she answered, he said in the loudest voice possible, Mrs X your husband is divorcing you on the grounds of infidelity. (This was in another jurisdiction, over the border). Every eye in the office was trained on her. Then the bailiff walked into the CFO's office, and served him in a really loud voice (my client paid extra) Mr Y, you are being sued by Mr X for alienation of affection, loss of congress, and a few other things thrown in for good measure. To be succinct, there was not a stitch of work done in that company for a good few days. The buzz was like an invasion of horseflies. She headed for the nearest exit once the bailiff had served her. Called her husband from her phone, and denied denied and denied. He told her to come home, when she arrived, he was sitting in front of the TV. She heard a flush from the bathroom, and from it emerged the CFO's wife. Hubby picks up the remote, and on-screen was a video WW and old fart boss banging like two minks. Hubby smiles and says that copies of this film have gone to the HR department at their office, all of the boss' grown children, WW's parents and siblings and every single one of their friends. Her first words, you mean everyone I know has watched me fu ck? I assume so, he replied. Apparently, she urinated on herself. THEN, he says this is forming a good part of both of our cases. If I were you, I would hire a great lawyer. You are going to need it. By the way, go get your shlt out of my room, you are no longer living here. She gets defiant, "You can't make me." He responds, there are still people that haven't seen your ugly cu nt munching on di ck, I am planning on sending this to our pastor and of course the congregation. That, apparently did it. She left. She never saw the inside of her dream house again. Yup, that it was, she meticulously decorated every last inch. He was sure to tell her that he repainted the house in anticipation of the sale. Every wall was grey. All the furniture and knick knacks paintings lamps everything was sold. He paid a stager. She sent friends through, the reports caused her to vomit. IT WAS ALL GONE. The custom carpet, the antique dining room, the wallpaper from europe. The house sold. For a ton less than he paid. He was happy to split the pittance with her. She did not get any more. Their incomes (on paper) were the same. She got a check for the house, that was maybe 60% of what she thought. The last things she got was her consent decree, and a lawsuit from her AP's wife. She had very little funds with which to defend herself. She lost. Her exH testified against her. It was mortifying to hear him recall his discovery, and devastation at what was done. The actual videos and stills that were brought out at trial. He said he could only imagine what the old fart's wife was going through. The judge took a pound and a half of flesh.


----------



## Noble1

Taxman said:


> @SEADoug
> And that is the reason we counsel him to be punitive with both parties. She basically ditched Steve for the old fart. Let that image sink into her head, when Steve has her served. When she asks why, which in my experience will happen within five minutes of being served. It never fails to floor me. People fu ck others with wild abandon, then when caught, they actually have the testicular fortitude to ask why their spouse wants to divorce.
> 
> One woman was served at her office. The bailiff walked in, called her name, when she answered, he said in the loudest voice possible, Mrs X your husband is divorcing you on the grounds of infidelity. (This was in another jurisdiction, over the border). Every eye in the office was trained on her. Then the bailiff walked into the CFO's office, and served him in a really loud voice (my client paid extra) Mr Y, you are being sued by Mr X for alienation of affection, loss of congress, and a few other things thrown in for good measure. To be succinct, there was not a stitch of work done in that company for a good few days. The buzz was like an invasion of horseflies. She headed for the nearest exit once the bailiff had served her. Called her husband from her phone, and denied denied and denied. He told her to come home, when she arrived, he was sitting in front of the TV. She heard a flush from the bathroom, and from it emerged the CFO's wife. Hubby picks up the remote, and on-screen was a video WW and old fart boss banging like two minks. Hubby smiles and says that copies of this film have gone to the HR department at their office, all of the boss' grown children, WW's parents and siblings and every single one of their friends. Her first words, you mean everyone I know has watched me fu ck? I assume so, he replied. Apparently, she urinated on herself. THEN, he says this is forming a good part of both of our cases. If I were you, I would hire a great lawyer. You are going to need it. By the way, go get your shlt out of my room, you are no longer living here. She gets defiant, "You can't make me." He responds, there are still people that haven't seen your ugly cu nt munching on di ck, I am planning on sending this to our pastor and of course the congregation. That, apparently did it. She left. She never saw the inside of her dream house again. Yup, that it was, she meticulously decorated every last inch. He was sure to tell her that he repainted the house in anticipation of the sale. Every wall was grey. All the furniture and knick knacks paintings lamps everything was sold. He paid a stager. She sent friends through, the reports caused her to vomit. IT WAS ALL GONE. The custom carpet, the antique dining room, the wallpaper from europe. The house sold. For a ton less than he paid. He was happy to split the pittance with her. She did not get any more. Their incomes (on paper) were the same. She got a check for the house, that was maybe 60% of what she thought. The last things she got was her consent decree, and a lawsuit from her AP's wife. She had very little funds with which to defend herself. She lost. Her exH testified against her. It was mortifying to hear him recall his discovery, and devastation at what was done. The actual videos and stills that were brought out at trial. He said he could only imagine what the old fart's wife was going through. The judge took a pound and a half of flesh.



I like stories with happy endings.


----------



## 3putt

Taxman said:


> @SEADoug
> And that is the reason we counsel him to be punitive with both parties. She basically ditched Steve for the old fart. Let that image sink into her head, when Steve has her served. When she asks why, which in my experience will happen within five minutes of being served. It never fails to floor me. People fu ck others with wild abandon, then when caught, they actually have the testicular fortitude to ask why their spouse wants to divorce.
> 
> One woman was served at her office. The bailiff walked in, called her name, when she answered, he said in the loudest voice possible, Mrs X your husband is divorcing you on the grounds of infidelity. (This was in another jurisdiction, over the border). Every eye in the office was trained on her. Then the bailiff walked into the CFO's office, and served him in a really loud voice (my client paid extra) Mr Y, you are being sued by Mr X for alienation of affection, loss of congress, and a few other things thrown in for good measure. To be succinct, there was not a stitch of work done in that company for a good few days. The buzz was like an invasion of horseflies. She headed for the nearest exit once the bailiff had served her. Called her husband from her phone, and denied denied and denied. He told her to come home, when she arrived, he was sitting in front of the TV. She heard a flush from the bathroom, and from it emerged the CFO's wife. Hubby picks up the remote, and on-screen was a video WW and old fart boss banging like two minks. Hubby smiles and says that copies of this film have gone to the HR department at their office, all of the boss' grown children, WW's parents and siblings and every single one of their friends. Her first words, you mean everyone I know has watched me fu ck? I assume so, he replied. Apparently, she urinated on herself. THEN, he says this is forming a good part of both of our cases. If I were you, I would hire a great lawyer. You are going to need it. By the way, go get your shlt out of my room, you are no longer living here. She gets defiant, "You can't make me." He responds, there are still people that haven't seen your ugly cu nt munching on di ck, I am planning on sending this to our pastor and of course the congregation. That, apparently did it. She left. She never saw the inside of her dream house again. Yup, that it was, she meticulously decorated every last inch. He was sure to tell her that he repainted the house in anticipation of the sale. Every wall was grey. All the furniture and knick knacks paintings lamps everything was sold. He paid a stager. She sent friends through, the reports caused her to vomit. IT WAS ALL GONE. The custom carpet, the antique dining room, the wallpaper from europe. The house sold. For a ton less than he paid. He was happy to split the pittance with her. She did not get any more. Their incomes (on paper) were the same. She got a check for the house, that was maybe 60% of what she thought. The last things she got was her consent decree, and a lawsuit from her AP's wife. She had very little funds with which to defend herself. She lost. Her exH testified against her. It was mortifying to hear him recall his discovery, and devastation at what was done. The actual videos and stills that were brought out at trial. He said he could only imagine what the old fart's wife was going through. The judge took a pound and a half of flesh.


----------



## Cynthia

Scuba_Steve said:


> The reason I plan on moving out is because I don’t want the house. I would be more than happy leaving it to her.


It's not about whether you want the house or not. Have you looked into what this would mean for you in the divorce settlement and custody? If you leave your child, it may be considered abandonment if you don't have a custody agreement finalized when you move out.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

Just take care of yourself and remember
she has lied and done things you never 
expected her to do. She may and probably 
will attack you with lies to your friends
and family. She will be out to get what ever
she can out of you. I hope as a few have done
that if you have enough on her she may just
sign the divorce and walk away. Rare but 
could happen. Until that time be vigilant
about her actions. How are you going to
handle the job situation? You need to protect
your career and reputation there as well.


----------



## sa58

Your career and reputation is why I would consider
work place exposure. So everybody knows her
actions caused the divorce not yours. 
Consider how to handle this possibly.


----------



## sa58

Remember even after the divorce is final
you still have to live and you will all ways
have to interact with her because of your
daughter. Now that you have decided 
to divorce her Protect yourself and
your future and your daughters
also. Do not let the fact that you
have feelings for her cloud your 
eyes. She is not that person 
anymore. She will be out for blood
because she only (by her actions)
cares about herself.


----------



## GusPolinski

CynthiaDe said:


> It's not about whether you want the house or not. Have you looked into what this would mean for you in the divorce settlement and custody? If you leave your child, it may be considered abandonment if you don't have a custody agreement finalized when you move out.


100% correct.
@Scuba_Steve, do NOTHING without first talking to an attorney.


----------



## Cynthia

GusPolinski said:


> 100% correct.
> 
> @Scuba_Steve, do NOTHING without first talking to an attorney.


I agree. There are so many considerations, but you want to make sure you are in the very best position to come out of this healthy in all respects. You don't want to get yourself in legal trouble and you don't want to end up being a twice a month fun dad rather than the present and involved father that your child needs. If you up and leave now, make sure you kiss your child good-bye. It may be a while before you're allowed back.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

CynthiaDe said:


> It's not about whether you want the house or not. Have you looked into what this would mean for you in the divorce settlement and custody? If you leave your child, it may be considered abandonment if you don't have a custody agreement finalized when you move out.


I don't plan on moving out until my lawyer gives me the ok. Until then I'm not going anywhere.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Steve, while i am sorry you are where you are now....i want you to think about this...the information you know is leverage in this divorce, while this may sound cold i just want to make sure you don't lose out in a divorce...you can make things bad for her and him in this, you can use that knowledge to go to his wife, to HR, and both could use their jobs....you can use this to make her sign a deal that makes you much more positive than her. and she will sign it if it spares her and his shame at work. Again cold but methodical.

Also have her served at work


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

How in the world can the OM do this to your 2 year old daughter, even if your WW was throwing herself at him does he have that little concern for a child. How can he sleep.

We sometimes forget who suffers the most when this happens.

Tamat


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> The reason I plan on moving out is because I don’t want the house. I would be more than happy leaving it to her.
> 
> I done with her. I don’t need or want to know anything more about the affair. I’ve already decided I want a divorce. I don’t care when the affair started, ended, if she ****ed him 50 times or if she was the one who ended it. I’m done with gathering more evidence I have more than enough to prove the affair. Besides she’s a proven liar, no point in asking her more questions knowing she going to lie.
> 
> I already made appointments with 3 lawyers, one on Thursday and two Friday. I wanted to use the lawyer her parents use but I was scared he might tip her off.
> 
> I don’t remember who said it but I’ve taken pictures and print outs of all you Bank account as of yesterday. We don’t have any joint credit cards so that isn’t a problem.
> 
> I can't prove she did anything with the tattoo boss and I don't think she did but what do I know.


S_Steve, Again sorry it came to this but she had her chance and blew it. 

Forget about asking any attorney about an alien of affection lawsuit, no longer allowed in NY State or NJ. Don't waste your breath. Unless they went to one of the states on a work trips where that lawsuit is allowed. Then you had have to prove something happened there. Not worth thinking about in my opinion. 

You can claim the OM as a co-respondent filing under infidelity which NY State does allow. But this is more expensive and those actions have difficult burdens of proof. Like a PI needs to take pictures in a hotel for example. Your attorney will advise on the best course of action given the legal evidence you have collected so far and how much going no fault or infidelity will cost.


----------



## sa58

SS
My sons ex was a lawyer. He got lucky
and had so much crap on her.She had a toxic
friend as well (coke head friend) He got 50/50
custody and pays her nothing. She has student 
loans now $ 300.00 with interest. My grand daughter 
is now six. He has to interact with the ex because of her.
You will all ways have to interact with your wife because 
of your daughter. You will probably be husband number one
since you have described her families history. I do not 
care about getting back at Om or your wife. I care about
you and especially your child. Karma will get even eventually
My sons ex is now lonely and miserably. My son is very happy
living the single life. He is your age by the way. Plans on never
getting married. You will get through this.


----------



## sa58

Do not forget after talking with your 
lawyer and having her served to 
remove the VARS. If she finds them
she could try and use them against 
you. Claim you were spying on her 
That is legal grounds she could use 
against you.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Is she expecting you to "R"?

2. What has been her attitude since D-Day?

3. You need to think about your working at the same place as she and the Boss. Are you going to be able to handle them being together there?

4. What does your lawyer think about exposing their actions to Human Resources? Their actions create a very unsafe work environment for you.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve. you need to go scorched earth on this one. This is a lawyers dream come true. You could come out of this thing with a nice financial settlement. Think about that. That would be the ultimate **** you to your wife and grandpa.
Most companies have insurance to protect them from events such as your stbxw and grandpa by the way.

Make them squirm!


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Already did, I talked BMW asked them about they sent me over to a tech who walked me through how to set up my account online to view my cars every location and date/time it was there.


Every BS wants to believe they got the truth. Most never do. Be thankful you now see what everyone's been telling you. Cheaters lie a lot.

Don't be shocked at what you see.

Sorry you're here.


----------



## Beach123

I told my cheating exH he could come home - but if he did - I would spend every moment he was home making him so miserable he would only hope to go away!


----------



## Beach123

She is a gal you thought you knew - but that person is long gone - you don't know her at all.


----------



## sa58

SS

Ask your lawyer that if she signs and agrees to
divorce terms,and you get what you want if
you can then expose to HR. If you have enough 
then maybe she will sign. Then expose to HR
and protect yourself.


----------



## poida

manfromlamancha said:


> Steve, I still maintain that she needs to give you (her versions of) answers to the above questions. Even if she lies there is a lot to be gained by getting these answers from her.
> 
> If she says she started or initiated then she is obliged to tell you why or what made her initiate it. She also may tell you what his initial response was which will tell you what she really thinks of him.
> 
> What is more likely is she will say that he initiated it (which may also be closer to the truth). If so, she will need to tell you how much pursuing he had to do to get her to drop her pants and that may not correspond with the emails etc you have found.
> 
> Then comes the question of how it ended - who ended it etc - the answer to this will also get you lots of info to check up on.


Don't hold your breath. It wont happen. Better just to move on. In the end he will realise it doesn't matter. He knows everything he needs to know. 

I hung on too long to the "need to know" and it held me back.


----------



## poida

Scuba_Steve said:


> I don't plan on moving out until my lawyer gives me the ok. Until then I'm not going anywhere.


Dude! You are killing it. Keep going.


----------



## Edmund

CynthiaDe said:


> It's not about whether you want the house or not. Have you looked into what this would mean for you in the divorce settlement and custody? If you leave your child, it may be considered abandonment if you don't have a custody agreement finalized when you move out.


You are assuming the daughter is his (biological) child, and he wants custody.


----------



## inging

A little bit of worst case here...

1. You move out
2. OM is thown out of his house by stbxw
3. He moves into your house. With your daughter
4. By the time the dust has settled she is telling you what a nice man he is 

This happens in am alarming number of times.

Don't let this happen. Once you move out of the house. You lose a huge chunk of control in this situation. 

Regardless of how good your lawyer is it can be years and years before it is sorted out. Your wife will work hard to get you out of her life and take your daughter with her. In three years any new arrangement (when you are not a central part of her life) will be the "new normal" for your daughter and very hard to reverse.

Ask her to move out once served. Do not volunteer to move out. Stop being so damned nice. She is no longer your friend. She does not have a ounce of love for you. It is all lies to minimise the fall out and reduce impact on her life. 

Tell her to live with her parents, unrestricted access to the house and child.


----------



## manfromlamancha

poida said:


> Don't hold your breath. It wont happen. Better just to move on. In the end he will realise it doesn't matter. He knows everything he needs to know.
> 
> I hung on too long to the "need to know" and it held me back.


It's not just the need to know. This is far from over. She is going to fight back and Steve needs to have max info in dealing with what might be coming down the line.


----------



## Chuck71

Steve.... some are telling you to not leave your house. Pay attention to this..... Most men move out, and

are D on grounds of abandonment. The reason for D in a no-fault is of no regard but what she will

use this as a jumping off point is to refuse allowing you to see your child. Make it a 80 / 20 % custody, in

her favor of course, and you will paying CS out the wazoo for years. Courts don't like changing

custody arrangements once it has been set.

Peepaw will take a hit when exposed... but he won't lose his job.... she will. I'd say you will too...

unless you agree on a settlement without publicity. Now when she loses her job... will she sit on her

ass to gain more spousal support? Who knows? Even if.... you wait to expose until D is final....

the company would find a way to can you and you might be blacklisted in your line of work.

I'm just throwing out "what ifs" .... except for the child arrangement. I promise that will happen,

if you allow it. Hopefully a lawyer will guide you through this.


----------



## Chaparral

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> S_Steve, Again sorry it came to this but she had her chance and blew it.
> 
> Forget about asking any attorney about an alien of affection lawsuit, no longer allowed in NY State or NJ. Don't waste your breath. Unless they went to one of the states on a work trips where that lawsuit is allowed. Then you had have to prove something happened there. Not worth thinking about in my opinion.
> 
> You can claim the OM as a co-respondent filing under infidelity which NY State does allow. But this is more expensive and those actions have difficult burdens of proof. Like a PI needs to take pictures in a hotel for example. Your attorney will advise on the best course of action given the legal evidence you have collected so far and how much going no fault or infidelity will cost.



Others have posted that a lawsuit for intentional infliction of emotional distress is still an option. Frankly, I would just tell his wife and go after his job with a workplace attorney.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

As for leaving the house....I think there are laws in place that he can leave for a said period of time without abandonment....Usually, longer than the court days coming. I would have the attorney file paperwork upon said ownership of the house, and separation proceedings so abandonment cannot be used. 
I would not give her the house though... Nope, sell it and move on.
Kids can live anywhere. They will be fine. And obviously, you have means to live in a peaceful, loving home without the pain reminders and bull Sh_t. Divide the assets and nuke the relationship. It is done. 

I just don't see that a WW can be rewarded with a turn key home and car and lifestyle for essentially murdering a healthy family life....Boggles my mind.


----------



## Chuck71

BarbedFenceRider said:


> As for leaving the house....I think there are laws in place that he can leave for a said period of time without abandonment....Usually, longer than the court days coming. I would have the attorney file paperwork upon said ownership of the house, and separation proceedings so abandonment cannot be used.
> I would not give her the house though... Nope, sell it and move on.
> Kids can live anywhere. They will be fine. And obviously, you have means to live in a peaceful, loving home without the pain reminders and bull Sh_t. Divide the assets and nuke the relationship. It is done.
> 
> I just don't see that a WW can be rewarded with a turn key home and car and lifestyle for essentially murdering a healthy family life....Boggles my mind.


That was my thoughts too..... until I came to TAM. Blew my freaking mind at the ways the *WS*

tries to gain the upper hand..... like they're coached. Well.... many times their toxic friends, coach them.

I don't think PeePaw was coaching her, she sounds as if she never thought she would get caught.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Chaparral said:


> Others have posted that a lawsuit for intentional infliction of emotional distress is still an option. Frankly, I would just tell his wife and go after his job with a workplace attorney.


Intentional infliction of emotional distress is a successful argument used in divorces between spouses. But has it actually been successfully used to sue the affair partner in a non alienation of affection state? If anyone has a URL to a successful lawsuit please post it.

Totally agree to workplace attorney and informing OM's wife. He works there, he has to protect himself from retaliation. I can see suing the OM for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" by suing the company and naming him. SS has to inform the company there is an issue, put the company on notice. Give the company a chance to respond, take action. 

Workplace stuff is so messy now. Really need a sharp workplace lawyer to wade through the obstacles. Hopefully SS hasn't signed away his rights to binding arbitration at work. But a really good attorney can get around that hopefully.


----------



## Chuck71

Someone correct me here..... but isn't it in NY.... to prove the affair took place they pretty much have

to be caught having sex in a public place? I'm guessing the intent for sex was clearly proven

and the company will fold and settle.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Chuck71 said:


> Someone correct me here..... but isn't it in NY.... to prove the affair took place they pretty much have
> 
> to be caught having sex in a public place? I'm guessing the intent for sex was clearly proven
> 
> and the company will fold and settle.


In NY you need 3rd party verification, a witness. A PI for example. Third party also includes emails, texts, Facebook etc. 

It is difficult here, and expensive.


----------



## sa58

I think Steve is on the right track waiting to talk
with his lawyer. Biological testing of the child would
only prove if he is the father or not. Legally most
states give one year to prove if you are the father.
Since the child is 3 then he will be legally considered 
the father. 
Steve has said he has no intention of moving out until 
he sees his lawyer. If he can get a divorce and give her 
the house without paying for it and paying her little or
nothing at all then I agree with him let her have it. 
He can all ways get another house.His ideal divorce
would be 50/50 custody and pay her nothing. I hope
that he has enough on her she just agrees.

Based on the family history Steve has given mother and father
divorced and remarried five times there seems to be a pattern
of this in the family.Steve just needs to remember that the person
he loves died the first time she laid down and had sex with grandpa.
She may say it was just a mistake for what ever reason BPD, promotion,
Daddy issues, or just sex it does not matter . She got caught and now
expects Steve to forgive and forget. Steve needs to care for himself now.

Her fate (KARMA) started the first time she had sex with Grandpa. Steve is
probably the only stable thing she had in her life. She threw that away and now
must suffer. After the divorce will she date and have relationships YES. She is only
32. The question is in society given the divorce rate and marriage rates what kind of
person will be with her. If you are a highly educated professional and you know she is
divorced because she cheated with grandpa would you take the chance on marrying 
her. Most men would not. Some maybe. 
When she is served she will probably beg plead and do what ever (LIE)
to hold on to Steve. (Don't fall for it Steve) She will probably then get
angry and upset then play the blame game. She knows what she is 
going to lose because of her family history. Her career will probably
stall or maybe even end once people know the truth. I hope so!
Parents will not be impressed either. 
Steve hopefully will be able to keep his career and reputation intact.
If he has her served at work this will help. If he does not expose the
affair to the CEO (OMs friend) then all he has to do is tell the biggest
loud mouth he knows and office gossip and rumors will do the rest.
Right now Steve is on the right track and waiting on legal counsel.
Good luck Steve!


----------



## Chuck71

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> In NY you need 3rd party verification, a witness. A PI for example. Third party also includes emails, texts, Facebook etc.
> 
> It is difficult here, and expensive.


Take on PeePaw..... get settlement. Then use settlement to prove affair.

Won't happen but it's nice to consider.... unless settlement with PeePaw includes admission of affair.

Could that be used in proving the affair (in D) or would it be "thrown out."


----------



## sa58

I think Steve has texts and e-mails that she gave him.
Since she gave them to him they should be legally used
in the divorce. If the PI got other texts maybe they can be used
also. Just tell her he got them off of her phone. Only Steves
attorney can say what can and cannot be used. My biggest 
concern and I am sure Steves to is his career. She has created
a big pile of crap and it has gotten on everybody. That is 
why I despise the loathsome cheaters. They only think about 
themselves and then when they are caught they still for some
reason do not see or care about the pain and crap they have caused
Issues she has plenty of them. Family and everything else.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Chuck71 said:


> Take on PeePaw..... get settlement. Then use settlement to prove affair.
> 
> Won't happen but it's nice to consider.... unless settlement with PeePaw includes admission of affair.
> 
> Could that be used in proving the affair (in D) or would it be "thrown out."


Honestly, no idea. Infidelity in divorce is very confusing here. Just because you prove it does not automatically mean alimony (If any) is reduced for example.

NY was the last state in USA to go no fault. Why? Because Divorce attorneys lobbied against it along with other special interest groups. 

There are lots of attorneys here, especially in NYC. They literally stand on criminal courthouse steps looking for clients.


----------



## Cynthia

Edmund said:


> You are assuming the daughter is his (biological) child, and he wants custody.


Unless it has been proven otherwise, she is his biological child. A loving, responsible parent wants to be involved in his child's life. I am also assuming that the OP is a loving, responsible parent.


----------



## colingrant

Scuba_Steve said:


> The reason I plan on moving out is because I don’t want the house. I would be more than happy leaving it to her.
> 
> I done with her. I don’t need or want to know anything more about the affair. I’ve already decided I want a divorce. I don’t care when the affair started, ended, if she ****ed him 50 times or if she was the one who ended it. I’m done with gathering more evidence I have more than enough to prove the affair. Besides she’s a proven liar, no point in asking her more questions knowing she going to lie.
> 
> I already made appointments with 3 lawyers, one on Thursday and two Friday. I wanted to use the lawyer her parents use but I was scared he might tip her off.
> 
> I don’t remember who said it but I’ve taken pictures and print outs of all you Bank account as of yesterday. We don’t have any joint credit cards so that isn’t a problem.
> 
> I can't prove she did anything with the tattoo boss and I don't think she did but what do I know.


Anger is good in this situation and at this juncture because it fosters action and decisiveness, which is difficult to manufacture when anger is missing, as reasoning, minimizing and indecisiveness follows. Now that you're there, sustain it and allow yourself to be guided by those who you pay for such guidance and by *some *on here who have lived what you're going through.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

The only person above the OM is the CEO.

Before I do anything at work I want to talk to my boss. My boss is one of my best friends since college and it’s his dads company. I’m also really close with his dad too. A lot of what I’ve been able to do is because of him. About 10 years ago, one of my family’s business lease was up. Our landlord refused to extend the lease he wanted to sell. My parents did not want to buy the property they felt it was over priced, at the time I was finishing my senior year in college. I wanted to buy property but I was broke. I talked to my friends dad we agreed he would give me a personal loan. That loan set the foundation for everything I built. That’s the big reason why I don’t want to expose the affair without talking to them first and let them decided the best way handle this. I want keep the damage to a minimum. It’s the least I can do after everything they’ve done for me. 


About the house. My plan is to let her keep our current house if she lets me keep the house we have in eastern long island. I haven't talked about it to a lawyer yet. I'm going to wait and see what they say.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

CynthiaDe said:


> Unless it has been proven otherwise, she is his biological child. A loving, responsible parent wants to be involved in his child's life. I am also assuming that the OP is a loving, responsible parent.


She mine, no matter what she will always be mine.


----------



## Cynthia

Scuba_Steve said:


> She mine, no matter what she will always be mine.


I can tell that you are a good man based on your commitment to your friends and your child. You are not making a rash decision, but are taking it one step at a time and dealing with the situation thoughtful and carefully. You are doing just fine.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Honestly, no idea. Infidelity in divorce is very confusing here. Just because you prove it does not automatically mean alimony (If any) is reduced for example.
> 
> NY was the last state in USA to go no fault. Why? Because Divorce attorneys lobbied against it along with other special interest groups.
> 
> There are lots of attorneys here, especially in NYC. They literally stand on criminal courthouse steps looking for clients.



True and all of them are way overpaid.


----------



## ABHale

Keep the course and steady on.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> The only person above the OM is the CEO.
> 
> Before I do anything at work I want to talk to my boss. My boss is one of my best friends since college and it’s his dads company. I’m also really close with his dad too. A lot of what I’ve been able to do is because of him. About 10 years ago, one of my family’s business lease was up. Our landlord refused to extend the lease he wanted to sell. My parents did not want to buy the property they felt it was over priced, at the time I was finishing my senior year in college. I wanted to buy property but I was broke. I talked to my friends dad we agreed he would give me a personal loan. That loan set the foundation for everything I built. That’s the big reason why I don’t want to expose the affair without talking to them first and let them decided the best way handle this. I want keep the damage to a minimum. It’s the least I can do after everything they’ve done for me.
> 
> 
> About the house. My plan is to let her keep our current house if she lets me keep the house we have in eastern long island. I haven't talked about it to a lawyer yet. I'm going to wait and see what they say.


She '*does not let you anything*'. This is a negotiation. A very very ugly one. Negotiate from a position of strength, confidence and consequences. Once she realizes your intent is divorce she will dig her heels in and claw away. Mark our words. Then you will see who she really is. 

I.E. - Here is the deal cheater....Want your 'reputation' intact - this is what it is going to cost. Here is the split, take it or leave it at the peril of your reputation, for example.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> The only person above the OM is the CEO.
> 
> Before I do anything at work I want to talk to my boss. My boss is one of my best friends since college and it’s his dads company. I’m also really close with his dad too. A lot of what I’ve been able to do is because of him. About 10 years ago, one of my family’s business lease was up. Our landlord refused to extend the lease he wanted to sell. My parents did not want to buy the property they felt it was over priced, at the time I was finishing my senior year in college. I wanted to buy property but I was broke. I talked to my friends dad we agreed he would give me a personal loan. That loan set the foundation for everything I built. That’s the big reason why I don’t want to expose the affair without talking to them first and let them decided the best way handle this. I want keep the damage to a minimum. It’s the least I can do after everything they’ve done for me.
> 
> 
> About the house. My plan is to let her keep our current house if she lets me keep the house we have in eastern long island. I haven't talked about it to a lawyer yet. I'm going to wait and see what they say.


Wise man you appear..... your view it is clear

Two things I tell guys.... 1-If WW wants sex, wear condom, 2-DNA all kids... even if, you knew

There's a message behind it, non-verbal.....


----------



## sa58

Sounds like Steve has a great plan is on the right
track. How are things at home Steve, how has the
wife been acting. Does she act like she may suspect
a divorce or what? Maybe she still hopes for R. 
How are you?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

I do not mean to be rude, but
Your boss is one of your best friends
his dad owns the company and you are friends 
with his dad. The company owner correct.
Is the OM stupid or what?


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> The only person above the OM is the CEO.
> 
> Before I do anything at work I want to talk to my boss. My boss is one of my best friends since college and it’s his dads company. I’m also really close with his dad too. A lot of what I’ve been able to do is because of him. About 10 years ago, one of my family’s business lease was up. Our landlord refused to extend the lease he wanted to sell. My parents did not want to buy the property they felt it was over priced, at the time I was finishing my senior year in college. I wanted to buy property but I was broke. I talked to my friends dad we agreed he would give me a personal loan. That loan set the foundation for everything I built. *That’s the big reason why I don’t want to expose the affair without talking to them first and let them decided the best way handle this. I want keep the damage to a minimum. It’s the least I can do after everything they’ve done for me. *
> 
> 
> About the house. My plan is to let her keep our current house if she lets me keep the house we have in eastern long island. I haven't talked about it to a lawyer yet. I'm going to wait and see what they say.



Smart move


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sa58 said:


> Sounds like Steve has a great plan is on the right
> track. How are things at home Steve, how has the
> wife been acting. Does she act like she may suspect
> a divorce or what? Maybe she still hopes for R.
> How are you?


Things are kind of tense at home. My wife is starting to get desperate. She constantly asking if everything ok and begging me talk to her. She has given me her detailed timeline. I haven't bothered to read it. I started ignoring her so she knows somethings up but I don't really care what she thinks. She's definitely still looking R. 

I'm angry with tunnel vision.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Be on guard as she is in desperation mode now. She will be trying to “love bomb”you as another poster has warned. Be stoic, be dispassionate, and aloof. If your intention is to divorce play it like you would a hand of poker. Go for the best financial settlement you can. You appear right now to have a very cool head at this time. I am impressed. I do think your relationship with the family will seal the deal with grandpa and he is very likely going bye-bye.

My advice is stay far away from STBXW until you are ready to drop the bomb on her. Serving her at work given your relationship with owner may not be in your best interest. 

Best to you.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> 
> I do not mean to be rude, but
> Your boss is one of your best friends
> his dad owns the company and you are friends
> with his dad. The company owner correct.
> Is the OM stupid or what?


Well he's the majority stockholder. The grandpa probably feels like he can't be touched since he helped us friend become the CEO. The plan was for my friend to replace is dad but 2 year ago his dad started to suffer from health problems which forced him to set down. Once he left office politics started to happen.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> Things are kind of tense at home. My wife is starting to get desperate. She constantly asking if everything ok and begging me talk to her. *She has given me her detailed timeline. I haven't bothered to read it.* I started ignoring her so she knows somethings up but I don't really care what she thinks. She's definitely still looking R.
> 
> I'm angry with tunnel vision.


That timeline may have info you need about gramps. Either read it or have a friend read it for you.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Keep her wondering what you are going to do. Mess with STBXW mind. Leave kryptic notes about lawyers, lawsuit, etc. out in open.
Open the yellow pages to lawyers and place by phone. Leave your computer on with webpage of law firm. 

Your STBXW is a speacial kind of crazy. You can and will do better.


----------



## sa58

SS 

When you have her served be cautious.
You would not be the first betrayed spouse 
to be falsely accused of something. If the company 
owner and CEO become involved then she and OM
may try anything to save their lousy hides.
As I have stated you are probably the only
truly stable thing in her life. Glad to hear 
you have connections at the company thou.
Stay strong and you will get through this.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> I'm angry with tunnel vision.


Good.
As I said, this can be used, if you channel it correctly.
Let your anger focus your mind on the prize, and that prize right now is removing yourself from infidelity.

Let no one change that focus.

To think that your stbx thought that office environment politicians would save her a safe passage through this means she thought that Grand-POS had more leverage than he actually does, or she's just willfully stupid.

Is she aware that you are friends with the owners son and that they are close family friends?

ETA: For God's sake do not have sex or any kind of relations with her. Lest that be used against you.


----------



## TAMAT

Perhaps a good time to get a post-nuptial!


----------



## sa58

Majority stock holder be damned
sounds like the company needs new leadership.
Stay safe sir maybe you can take him and
his friend down and put the right person 
your friend in charge.


----------



## sa58

Grandma- future majority stock holder?
Share everything with Grandma.
Timeline and everything.
I hope she nails his a** good.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> The only person above the OM is the CEO.
> 
> Before I do anything at work I want to talk to my boss. My boss is one of my best friends since college and it’s his dads company. I’m also really close with his dad too. A lot of what I’ve been able to do is because of him. About 10 years ago, one of my family’s business lease was up. Our landlord refused to extend the lease he wanted to sell. My parents did not want to buy the property they felt it was over priced, at the time I was finishing my senior year in college. I wanted to buy property but I was broke. I talked to my friends dad we agreed he would give me a personal loan. *That loan set the foundation for everything I built.* That’s the big reason why I don’t want to expose the affair without talking to them first and let them decided the best way handle this. I want keep the damage to a minimum. It’s the least I can do after everything they’ve done for me.
> 
> 
> About the house. My plan is to let her keep our current house if she lets me keep the house we have in eastern long island. I haven't talked about it to a lawyer yet. I'm going to wait and see what they say.


Good choice..... you go by the adage my pop used .... Shake hands with people going up the ladder,

for they may be the only ones to grab you when / if you fall down it. May be logical you act

as if you want the house you are at.... Because when she realizes you are D her... she will go

into survival mode. Be prepared for her to say your actions are why she cheated.... it's a script.


----------



## Dyokemm

sa58 said:


> Grandma- future majority stock holder?
> Share everything with Grandma.
> Timeline and everything.
> I hope she nails his a** good.


EXACTLY......

POSOM won’t be crowing and thinking he is untouchable when he is no longer the majority stock holder because he has to split assets with his BW or liquidate his holdings as part of a financial settlement for his D....

Crush this friggin worm by exposing to his BW ASAP......

Then when the CEO and your friend (his son) confront this a**hole for the potential legal liability that his crappy behavior have exposed the company to for seducing an employee who is the H of ANOTHER employee....well, Gramps will be reeling at that moment as his life begins to unravel.

In fact, I would bet that a great work lawyer would have a potential field day with your case.....POSOM’s actions by having a workplace A with your WW (another employee) almost by definition has created a ‘hostile work environment’ for you to deal with.....actions a lot less damaging than this have been ruled by the courts to have created just such an environment in the past.....

High stress, destructive of your family and personal relationships, fearful of speaking up to defend yourself out of worry about POS boss retaliating.....almost a textbook example.

POSOM might THINK he is untouchable.....he is very mistaken IMO.


----------



## sa58

Since I believe in Karma
Grandma new majority stock holder
CEO- gone new CEO -your friend
OM-gone Om job- Scuba Steve
Cheating wife- What ever you decide to do!
Lets all hope it sounds like this would be best
for everybody.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You still have financial options via litigation that are certainly rewarding to you. Do not back down on this. Grandpa needs to pay. Make his life a living hell. The threat of exposure if he is solid financially will shake his wrinkled ass to the core. Be a hardass once you talk to your friends. 
I would use your wife as a conduit to feed him false info making him think you are going to do one thing, when in reality you may do something else or nothing at all. ****ing with their minds can drive them bat**** crazy. Best of all you can have fun.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

You are doing great. The only men who do well in these situations are those who stay strong.

SpaceGhost0007 on SI would be a great read for you. He caught his wife cheating with her rich boss and his actions are epic. 

Here are two posts to read:

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Thought we had a good marriage

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Spaceghost0007


----------



## sa58

Stay safe Steve hope you get good news from 
your lawyers. Sorry the wife created such a mess
When she is served ask her again why POSOM
I think she knows it just did not work out like she
thought it would. Stay safe protect yourself 
from her and that POSOM


----------



## Marc878

I'm sorry your wayward wife put you in this position. 

That is who she is though.

Sorry you're in this


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well he's the majority stockholder. The grandpa probably feels like he can't be touched since he helped us friend become the CEO. The plan was for my friend to replace is dad but 2 year ago his dad started to suffer from health problems which forced him to set down. Once he left office politics started to happen.


Hmmmmm, the one who controls the purse strings has all the power unless there's something in the bylaws.

Tread carefully unless you can afford not to work there.

Don't be surprised if the CEO protects himself in this. Friend or no friend.

When it comes to money people can become very self preserving.

You have a real mess on your hands


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Let me clear something up. The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder. 

My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> Let me clear something up. *The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder.*
> 
> That'll help
> 
> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, *my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see.*
> 
> Some snakes are pretty to look at too but...,,
> 
> It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


Stay clear of that. Obviously it's a ploy. She's trying to put you in a ***** coma. Giving you some grandpas seconds.

Doesn't say much for her IMO trying this low class tactic.

If she had any remorse she'd be begging for forgiveness and giving you space.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Buy yourself some time and tell your wife you need space to process all that has happened. Tell her if she wants to reconcile, and keep that option alive, it is imperative that she give you space for the next couple of weeks. Tell her that trying to initiate sex is just way too early right now as you are confused and that it will drive you further apart. 

Also, about your daughter, she is your daughter, and you are the only father she has ever known. Same position I was in when I found out. Always remember that your daughter is innocent regardless of whatever happens.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

There are many compelling reasons not to have sex with her. One of the main ones is that she has not yet had a full panel of STI testing yet. Remind her of that next time she makes advances.


----------



## poida

Scuba_Steve said:


> Let me clear something up. The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder.
> 
> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


Just keep telling yourself, she is only being nice to;
a) reduce her guilt for what she has done (selfish)
b) pretend that everything is fine and dandy to avoid actually living the truth (selfish).

Having said, that I've been there and done that and a good bang is pretty bloody tempting. I didn't though. Knowing what I know now, I wish I had. 

As long as you aware of the above points and can emotionally separate yourself from her, why not use her and bang her for your own needs and then tell her "thanks" and go lock yourself in your room. Hey, you could even bang her in a way she hadn't allowed you to do before. Pull her hair, slap her about a bit. That would be hilarious. Wish I had done that. Of course I don't mean do this........or do I??????

OMG she would be so mad...... lol. 
Nah its not worth it until the papers are signed.
Id allow a post divorce bang though.....lol


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> Let me clear something up. The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder.
> 
> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


110% normal.... You see who she truly is.... BELIEVE HER. The hardest part, I think, for guys is

knowing who she "was," compared to who she "is." Once you separate the two, much much easier.

She knows she is in deep ****....and will try the two oldest tricks in the book.... sex and using the child, to keep you. Steve... you will turn many corners in this journey you're about to begin.

But you have already turned the biggest..... I'll toast a drink to you tonight...


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


That my friend, deserves a salute! So I'll give you a pat on the back for a good job as well. That took strength.

Stay vigilant and stay the course.
We are right here rooting for you Steve.
Atta boy!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Let me clear something up. The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder.
> 
> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


SSteve, for her its just an accident that that old geezer slipped it in. She was hit by a meteor. Knocked her senseless. She has it her way she will swear up and down she loves you forever and he means nothing. She will screw you 6 ways to Sunday to make it up. It is actually quite insulting to you to be brutally honest. She is telling you that if she uses her body it will all go away. Of course it wont. 


Don't fall for it. What she is saying is if I sleep with you and be intimate with you you will be soooo enthralled that I can make up for anything. Including f*ing other guys,. You will eat that and take more. 


You don't have to apologize. Just simply tell her, I'm sorry, I am having a real real hard time being excited by you because you gave yourself so willingly to another man.

She knows the score, she has seen this movie. She is not a kid. 

She will then play the child card and she will plead please please I am soooo sorry. Lets not break up because of our little girl. She will l beg and swear I I I I I will never never do it again. Blah Blah Blah.

Reality is she already added your child into her cheating calculus and FIGURED IT WAS WORTH IT. SHE DID NOT CARE. 

Then tell her you already did ( tried to forgive her in your head ) one too many times. Remind her that you gave her chance to come clean and she choose to lie. 


All this after you file. Before, just tell her you have a headache.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Things are kind of tense at home. My wife is starting to get desperate. She constantly asking if everything ok and begging me talk to her. She has given me her detailed timeline. I haven't bothered to read it. I started ignoring her so she knows somethings up but I don't really care what she thinks. She's definitely still looking R.
> 
> I'm angry with tunnel vision.


Remind her she spent months cheating on you, making you feel 'crazy' questioning the person you trusted the most. 

Then just tell her you are still processing the mess and need more time. Then tell her if she feels uncomfortable maybe she should go spend some time with her mom. But the baby stay with you. She squawks just tell her all this crap is because of your actions. Our daughter stays here.


----------



## MattMatt

Having sex with her would make a divorce based on her adultery legally impossible.


----------



## Evinrude58

Sex, supper, nice dressing for her husband?
Damn, where was all that in the past?

Oh, that’s right..... you weren’t getting that when old boy was shagging her... now that he’s dumped her and she is scared she will have to support herself, she feels like making supper, etc.

Your wife was awfully sure a little supper and sex would fix everything she trashed.
You’ll never see her the same way again, because she’s not the same person. Now, she’s just a selfish user who only wants you for security. No way could she be so flippant that she could think you could just let this go if she reall has feelings for you. If she loved you, she’d be crushed because she’d know how you must feel.

You are proceeding as you should.

There is a way for you to get happy again, and it’s not with your ex wife.
She’s nuked your marriage a long time ago.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> Let me clear something up. The grandpa OM isn’t the majority shareholder. What I meant to say was my friends dad is the majority shareholder.
> 
> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


This could not have been easy. 

Great job in protecting your little girl from what is going on.


----------



## bethebetterman

Coming into this very late. 

You are absolutely doing the right thing SS. I'm a few years down the line from where you are now. Its not an easy decision to make but your wife (by admitting the affair but continuing to lie/minimise/deflect/shift blame) has put you in a better position than most to reach the right decision. 

For your peace of mind you had to give her the opportunity to be truly honest with you. Now you know who you are dealing with keep that fact firmly in front of you. The next year or two will be difficult and it will probably get ugly. Don't allow her to diminish who you are. Dont react (she knows how to push your buttons). Dont respond directly to her. Use your lawyer or if thats not viable get a trusted friend to edit your emails/letters so that they remain neutral and factual. Don't look for revenge or try to punish her. Be courteous and polite. You have a two year old daughter and nothing is more important than helping her come through this so focus on that. Ask yourself whether your daughter (if she reads it when she is older) would be proud or ashamed of how you handled it.

Most of all remember to look after yourself, dont lock yourself away. Go out with friends, get to the gym, meet new people, learn to be happy again. This is temporary and it will definitely get better. Everyone on here is rooting for you. We have all been there.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

It's situations like this that wonder if I have it worse or better off in the long run. Other than the two week false reconciliation when I first found out in Mid-June of last year, it's been constant gaslighting, blame shifting and generally making ME feel like $*** since the divorce was filed in January and even after, that attitude didn't stop. By the time I had drew up the divorce papers, the shock value was too late and if my assumption is correct, the OM told my STBXW that he will eventually be with her but has to wait longer to end things with his Wife. That's the only reason I can think of why there was very little attempt at even a fake R and she has been moving at the speed of light to move on with her life. Not much caking eating in my year of Hell and none since last Summer. Again, not sure if that makes my situation better or worse. For my ego, would have liked to seen some attempts at her trying to make it work but it was all me.

Bottom line, keep at it! You are doing great and essentially your pattern is following the same pattern as what my cousin is going through. He's getting the mind games from his WW, that will spend a whole week with OM and then one day act like everything is ok and the next tell my cousin that he shouldn't be making passes at her or coming into HER room unless he asks. Hot and Cold and it is playing massive mind games with him but they are about a month away from a finalized D and once he makes it to the finish line, he can really start to de-tatch properly.

You are doing great, i know it's hard as Hell to reject what you ultimately thought you wanted but if you can listen to the pros here and see through it, you won't all into the trap. Using the images of her and the old man may hurt like Hell but it's your best ally right now, truthfully!


----------



## Nucking Futs

bethebetterman said:


> Coming into this very late.
> 
> You are absolutely doing the right thing SS. I'm a few years down the line from where you are now. Its not an easy decision to make but your wife (by admitting the affair but continuing to lie/minimise/deflect/shift blame) has put you in a better position than most to reach the right decision.
> 
> For your peace of mind you had to give her the opportunity to be truly honest with you. Now you know who you are dealing with keep that fact firmly in front of you. The next year or two will be difficult and it will probably get ugly. Don't allow her to diminish who you are. Dont react (she knows how to push your buttons). Dont respond directly to her. *Use your lawyer or if thats not viable get a trusted friend to edit your emails/letters so that they remain neutral and factual.* Don't look for revenge or try to punish her. Be courteous and polite. You have a two year old daughter and nothing is more important than helping her come through this so focus on that. Ask yourself whether your daughter (if she reads it when she is older) would be proud or ashamed of how you handled it.
> 
> Most of all remember to look after yourself, dont lock yourself away. Go out with friends, get to the gym, meet new people, learn to be happy again. This is temporary and it will definitely get better. Everyone on here is rooting for you. We have all been there.


You can also post them here before sending, the members here have helped edit messages plenty of times.


----------



## Gabriel

Scuba_Steve said:


> Things are kind of tense at home. My wife is starting to get desperate. She constantly asking if everything ok and begging me talk to her. She has given me her detailed timeline. I haven't bothered to read it. I started ignoring her so she knows somethings up but I don't really care what she thinks. She's definitely still looking R.
> 
> I'm angry with tunnel vision.


Yep, the anger stage is a normal one. I'd probably read the timeline out of curiosity. Her getting desperate falls in line with the fact she was probably dumped by the OM, or at least told it will never be more than a sexual affair for him. 

You are her safety net and she is growing more fearful that she won't have that net any longer. 

That's good.

Keep in mind that your emotions will change a lot over time. Don't close doors on any options yet, but remain focused on your current plan.


----------



## Gabriel

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife tried to initiate sex tonight. She today me she was leaving work early I didn’t know why and didn’t bother to ask. I come home she has my favorite food read and is dressed to nines. My daughter was home and looked happy. I tried to pretend everything was ok for her. After dinner my wife goes to put our daughter to bed. I was in the living room watching basketball game she comes down and starts making sexual advances. A part me really wanted to, my wife in my eyes is still one of the prettiest women you will ever see. It was like the closer she got the only thing I could see was that old bastard. I got up and pushed her way and locked myself in the guest bedroom. Now I have mind movies playing in my head.


Good job resisting. "Desperate" doesn't even begin to describe this. She tried pulling out all the stops to get you to forgive her. 

Look man, there is always time for forgiveness if you want to do that later. But right now, she needs to feel what she's feeling. Complete and utter panic about her life. 

Waywards in this situation either 1) are genuine, and thus accelerate the panic and desperation and get to the point of begging, snots out the nose crying, etc. and then start making promises about counseling, etc. or 2) are manipulators who, once they realize their tactics aren't working, suddenly go cold and want to get on with the divorce.

Not clear to me yet which one your wife is.


----------



## Chaparral

Tell your wife that unlike her old boyfriend, you don’t do other men’s wives OR mistresses.


----------



## Steve2.0

I can only recommend you try to get out of the house after your daughter is sleeping instead of hanging around.

If you want to watch basketball go to a bar and get a beer... you don't have to tell her where your going, create some mystery around all this.


----------



## stro

Maybe her attempt at R has some sincerity to it but she also knows you are holding a grenade over her and the OM jobs/careers/reputations and she is hoping you don’t pull the pin. I guess you can’t know what is genuine until she actually loses something.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> She mine, no matter what she will always be mine.


I agree. But doing a DNA test isn't testing your daughter, it's testing your wife. It's like there might be absolute proof that your wife had sex with someone X years ago in a box. All you have to do is open the box. 

You can buy a DNA kit at Walmart, Amazon or about any drug store. You swab the inside of the kids cheek and yours. No one needs to know.

One reason not to do the test is that you don't trust yourself with the results. They might change your relationship with your daughter.

If what you said above is true than the only reason not to do the test is that it might upset her if she knows what you're doing. How old is your daughter?


----------



## sa58

Glad to hear OM is not majority stockholder
Should make work situation easier. Still tell
Grandma thou. She is scared of losing 
what she now knows is the best thing
she ever had or will have. I guess she 
forgot about that with Grandpa. 

Tell her " I can't believe you did this to 
us" remember she did this to all of you
You your daughter and herself. She is tying to 
make this all go away. For you it can not
we understand that. She is showing you 
who she really is, not who you loved or
thought she was.

She has got to understand what she did
to her family cannot just go away by playing
the loving and sexy wife. She forgot about
that part of her life for several months 
didn't she. She may forget again in the 
future. Again be careful when you have her 
served. She is getting desperate.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Steve's daughter is 2. I think doing the DNA test with the wife's knowledge is the way to go. Often WWs are in a state of denial, like what they did wasn't really so bad. They create all kinds of rationalizations in their head and come up with naively easy solutions. Showing her that you've lost all trust for her, past and future, will make her better understand the far-reaching consequences of her infidelity. She needs to know that a couple of "I'm sorry"s with some sex thrown in just isn't going to cut it. 

When she hits rock bottom, she'll finally grasp the amount of work she has in front of her in order to reconcile. It's only when she's out of denial that the process can start. 

But if you're dead set on divorce, then I agree that it's not worth the effort.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

To make it real for her:

1. Served at work.

2. DNA test with her knowledge.

3. STD test for her.

4. DO NOT SLEEP WITH HER. Keep your door locked. Don't hang out at home except to be with your child. > You did a brave thing there last time.

5. Grandma is informed.

6. Remember: the divorce will take time. She can work on this, but until she has convinced you, its *ON*.


----------



## Chaparral

Everyone, and especially you, need to get up to speed on the HPV epedimic that is going on. Men are getting oral cancer at an alarming rate and the results are devastating. If I remember correctly one of our posters has been infected by his wayward wife and his situation is dire. Your wife, at this point is poison to you. I’m guessing gramps has dipped is stick in a lot of willing women.


----------



## sa58

Just like Chaparral said HPV epidemic.
Simply put you do not know where 
Grandpa has been but you know 
where she has been WITH GRANDPA!

The company still needs new leadership.
To me she is not showing any regret or remorse
Dinner and sex not even close. File and then she 
how she reacts. If she tries to initiate sex again
look right in her eyes and say

"I AM HAVING TROUBLE WITH WHAT YOU DID
To Us
She is not owning what she did. Maybe if she 
confronts you tell her how you feel.
Since you refused her advances last night
she will be very upset and angry. (Oh well)
She is still hoping to just make this go away.
If she just had sex with Grandpa and she acts 
like it was nothing what do you think sex with you 
will mean to her? Simply away of smoothing things
over.


----------



## GusPolinski

Tatsuhiko said:


> Steve's daughter is 2. I think *doing the DNA test with the wife's knowledge is the way to go.* Often WWs are in a state of denial, like what they did wasn't really so bad. They create all kinds of rationalizations in their head and come up with naively easy solutions. Showing her that you've lost all trust for her, past and future, will make her better understand the far-reaching consequences of her infidelity. She needs to know that a couple of "I'm sorry"s with some sex thrown in just isn't going to cut it.
> 
> When she hits rock bottom, she'll finally grasp the amount of work she has in front of her in order to reconcile. It's only when she's out of denial that the process can start.
> 
> But if you're dead set on divorce, then I agree that it's not worth the effort.


Eh... let her know _after_ the results are back in. Letting her know beforehand or even in the “pending results” stage inserts unneeded uncertainty into the equation.


----------



## Beach123

Good job resisting her manipulation!

She's desperate to get you where she wants you. She keeps showing proof that she is skilled at offering sex to get her agenda fulfilled - after all, she did it to that Grampa dude, right? She's had time to get really good at this!

She is the kind of gal that gives women a bad name! 

Control and manipulation will never, ever equate to truth and love.

She is dispicable.


----------



## DjDjani

Chuba, blow up grandpas reputation and job, blow up your wwife's reputation and job, when she is humiliated and fired, then if she comes to you and say" I deserved all this, I still love you and I am begging you to give me one more chanse", then you can believe that she is realy sorry. But I dont think that she is that kind of person. Sorry..


----------



## alte Dame

Chaparral said:


> Everyone, and especially you, need to get up to speed on the HPV epedimic that is going on. Men are getting oral cancer at an alarming rate and the results are devastating. If I remember correctly one of our posters has been infected by his wayward wife and his situation is dire. Your wife, at this point is poison to you. I’m guessing gramps has dipped is stick in a lot of willing women.


And....women are dying at alarming rates of virulent strains of cervical cancer from HPV, oftentimes thanks to their cheating husbands.

No one is safe with this. HPV can be transmitted even if a man is wearing a condom.

Absolutely, STD tests are critical.

(This is also the indisputable rationale for telling the OMW/OWH about the A. Those poor people are sitting ducks re their own health thanks to their cheating spouses.)


----------



## Evinrude58

I have to ask:

Do you plan on torching the OM at his job (since he TOTALLY DESERVES IT AND NEEDS A LESSON) and do you plan on telling the OM's wife?

I personally would not rest until I put gas in the Karma bus, checked it's oil, aired up all the tires, and did whatever I could to make sure it made it's way as fast as possible to the OM. He needs to be looking for another job, and he needs to be carrying with him a scarlet letter tattooed on his head so that other employers know what he does with a little authority he has over employees.

I hope your lawyer has advised you well on how to come out as best as you possibly can in this divorce. Using the threat of steam rolling grandpa at work, or steam rolling HER at work would be good leverage to get as little financial torture as possible on your behalf, and as much custody as possible. I know that you're not really thinking about that aspect right now, but you need to. You'll want to be as secure financially as possible in order to take care of your daughter and yourself.

If you have yourself in a position to have as little worries as possible on other stuff, you'll get through this faster and easier.

Your wife......... she doesn't sound very remorseful, and seems to really kind of be oblivious to the horrible pain she's put you through.
Good luck ignoring her forever. You'll still have to interact with her over kid stuff, but the more unemotional and indifferent you display, the worse off she'll be and the less she'll want to bother you. gray rock her bigtime.


----------



## Marc878

alte Dame said:


> And....women are dying at alarming rates of virulent strains of cervical cancer from HPV, oftentimes thanks to their cheating husbands.
> 
> No one is safe with this. HPV can be transmitted even if a man is wearing a condom.
> 
> Absolutely, STD tests are critical.
> 
> (This is also the indisputable rationale for telling the OMW/OWH about the A. Those poor people are sitting ducks re their own health thanks to their cheating spouses.)


You don't know where grandpa has been. He could be doing hookers, escorts, etc.

I'd get tested ASAP


----------



## TDSC60

alte Dame said:


> And....women are dying at alarming rates of virulent strains of cervical cancer from HPV, oftentimes thanks to their cheating husbands.
> 
> No one is safe with this. HPV can be transmitted even if a man is wearing a condom.
> 
> Absolutely, STD tests are critical.
> 
> (This is also the indisputable rationale for telling the OMW/OWH about the A. Those poor people are sitting ducks re their own health thanks to their cheating spouses.)


I know some viruses can be transmitted by bodily fluids. Some are airborne and can be transmitted by a sneeze or a cough.

Are you saying HPV can be transmitted in other ways other than sexual fluids?

I recently read that HPV has been linked to testicular and other cancers in males.

( cheating husbands or the wifes lover) 50/50


----------



## GusPolinski

TDSC60 said:


> I know some viruses can be transmitted by bodily fluids. Some are airborne and can be transmitted by a sneeze or a cough.
> 
> Are you saying HPV can be transmitted in other ways other than sexual fluids?
> 
> I recently read that HPV has been linked to testicular and other cancers in males.
> 
> ( cheating husbands or the wifes lover) 50/50


What she’s saying is this: for every WW transmitting HPV — or worse — to her BH, there’s a WH doing the same to his BW.

After all, cheating women tend to cheat with cheating men, and cheating men tend to cheat with cheating women.


----------



## Windwalker

So how are you doing Steve?


----------



## alte Dame

TDSC60 said:


> I know some viruses can be transmitted by bodily fluids. Some are airborne and can be transmitted by a sneeze or a cough.
> 
> Are you saying HPV can be transmitted in other ways other than sexual fluids?
> 
> I recently read that HPV has been linked to testicular and other cancers in males.
> 
> ( cheating husbands or the wifes lover) 50/50


"How do you get HPV?

HPV is easily spread from sexual skin-to-skin contact with someone who has it. You get it when your vulva, vagina, cervix, penis, or anus touches someone else’s genitals or mouth and throat — usually during sex. HPV can be spread even if no one cums, and even if a penis doesn’t go inside the vagina/anus/mouth."

IOW, you can use a condom but still have skin-to-skin contact.


----------



## ABHale

Like Steve has said. He needs to talk with his friends first before he does anything. His friends dad is the CEO of the company. Once he sorts things out with him I am sure he will blow the old ****s world up with the help of his friends. 

He needs to do this right. Like taxman mentioned she can’t get fired or he is liable for alimony. 

Give him time it has only been a few days sense he has decided to divorce. It take time to get thing lined up and ready.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I still do not get the attraction to the old man. Has she offered any kind of explanation as to how she could be attracted to someone old enough to be her father or grandfather?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Im doing alright given everything that has happened. 

I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better. 

My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


----------



## fotf17

Scuba_Steve said:


> If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


Maybe she is...


----------



## stro

Wow, That must have been hard. At least it would have been if I were in your position. I imagine you didn’t stop loving her just because you are enraged at her. That’s the damnedable misery of it all. I will say that’s the first actual sign of remorse you have described to this point. Which a good sign except for the fact that she still has a lot of other things to lose and you have control over that. So what’s she afraid of losing? You or her career/reputation. Taken the latter from her and then see if she still sleeps outside your door. THAT will be remorse.


----------



## Suspicious1

Sooner or later she'll say, what is it Steve ypu don't love me anymore? Or if you don't love me I should move on! 

I would definitely send her home to mom for a while, and spend as much time with your daughter. That's what's important now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Magnesium

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. *If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful*.


It's a good thing you know better, because the only thing she regrets is being caught. 

Stick to your guns. Your wife is absurdly selfish and you cannot - CANNOT - allow her to get to you with these selfish, simple tactics. Your future, your well-being, your daughter's future - they all depend on you being stronger than you've ever had to be in your life before. 

Resist the devil and he will flee from you.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.





Scuba

Although I can’t witness your wife’s actions, I will say this, regret at it finest. Remorse is a whole different animal then sleeping outside your door. Best description of remorse is her feeling the pain she inflicted upon you. Sleeping outside your door is simply her wanting to be near you as she feels the distance her actions caused. Had you been near here she would have felt content, which is regret and not remorse. Continue forward with your plan, limit your talks as you have, get a very good lawyer.


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. *If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful*.


Desperation and manipulation. Initiating sex didn't work so she tried this.


----------



## BluesPower

*No buddy, she is not remorseful...*



Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


No buddy, she is not remorseful... But in a year or two, dating some sleaze bag, that is not near half the man your are, she will be. When she meets your smoking hot new girl friend that posts on FB what a wonderful man you are and New GF says that she did not know how good sex could be before she met you. When you have a new woman that treats you like a king, because you deserve to be. 

When you child slips up and tells mommy how cool daddies new GF is. When she loses her Job and her OM will not even talk to her or help her get a job somewhere after you blow her out of the water....

Yes she might start to be remorseful!!! When she starts to realize what a complete **** she was and is and her reputation is horse crap, yeah she will be remorseful. 

But she was not begging you for sex when she was banging the OM, and yes she screwed tat boy, I know you don't believe it but she did. 

Now I am going to yell so you can hear better... SHE IS NOT REMORSEFUL YET AT ALL. SHE IS DESPERATE AND SHE KNOWS HER LIFE IS ENDING. SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO DEEPTHROAT YOU FROM NOW TO THE END OF THE WORLD. 

BUT DO NOT FALL FOR IT. SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF SHE EVER DID. SHE WAS SCREWING OTHER MEN... IN YOUR PLACE OF WORK. SHE HAS SHOWN A LEVEL OF DIRESPECT THAT IS ALMOST NOT HEARD OF. 

DO YOU GET ME. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. 

Ok, I won't yell anymore for now. 

You need to stay strong, don't open that door, hit her hard, get your balls back and start a new life...


----------



## Marc878

Remourse would be for how she’s hurt you.

She’s having regret for herself at this time.

Huge difference and some never get to remorse.

Stay on course for now. Get rid of OM!!!!


----------



## bandit.45

I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says. 

Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture. 

Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....

She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


I'm glad you are doing as good as can be expected.

Stay on the lawyer hunt. If it takes consulting with every single one in the area, then that's what it takes. No one said this was easy, as you well know. Stay the course and stay strong. You are doing good. Lean on us all as needed.

Remorse and regret may look similar in some aspects, but they are not the same. She is regretting that her fantasy land is crumbling. She is not remorseful at what she has done to you and her daughter though.

Stay the course Steve!


----------



## inging

bandit.45 said:


> I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says.
> 
> Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture.
> 
> Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....
> 
> She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.


Yeah.. me too Bandit. This is not typical regret/lie/regret behaviour . Something to remember is that you will be in contact with your wife for over a decade through your child. Divorce is not the end


----------



## sa58

Not regret or remorse at all. Just got caught
that is all. Steve is now in control and can and 
should ruin her little world/career/reputation etc.
Steve gave her a chance to come clean. She still 
lied. Where was all of this love/sex/affection months 
ago? With Grandpa!! Why Grandpa maybe career progression?
OM put his friend in the position as CEO. Grandpa maybe 
could help her? 

Steve if she wants to talk tell her how she has made 
you feel. She is not taking responsibility for this. She
is simply trying to get Steve (Sex,dinner, begging, playing
the poor innocent role) to forget and move on . I am glad
Steve is doing well and proceeding with his plan. If he
was to choose R then the first thing she would have to
do is resign her position. BET SHE WOULD NOT DO THAT!

Lie, Lie. and playing innocent I am sorry game. 
Steve if you fall for this crap then you will regret
it sometime in the future. I have seen this before
with one of my closest friends many years ago.

I hope you talk with your friend very soon, I know
it will be hard but with the office politics and what your
wife has done with Grandpa the owners son needs to get 
the company back OM needs to resign,CEO needs to resign
Take your life back Steve she got caught and now is crawling 
back to you. PLAN B


----------



## lostmyreligion

*Re: No buddy, she is not remorseful...*



BluesPower said:


> No buddy, she is not remorseful... But in a year or two, dating some sleaze bag, that is not near half the man your are, she will be. When she meets your smoking hot new girl friend that posts on FB what a wonderful man you are and New GF says that she did not know how good sex could be before she met you. When you have a new woman that treats you like a king, because you deserve to be.
> 
> When you child slips up and tells mommy how cool daddies new GF is. When she loses her Job and her OM will not even talk to her or help her get a job somewhere after you blow her out of the water....
> 
> Yes she might start to be remorseful!!! When she starts to realize what a complete **** she was and is and her reputation is horse crap, yeah she will be remorseful.
> 
> But she was not begging you for sex when she was banging the OM, and yes she screwed tat boy, I know you don't believe it but she did.
> 
> Now I am going to yell so you can hear better... SHE IS NOT REMORSEFUL YET AT ALL. SHE IS DESPERATE AND SHE KNOWS HER LIFE IS ENDING. SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO DEEPTHROAT YOU FROM NOW TO THE END OF THE WORLD.
> 
> BUT DO NOT FALL FOR IT. SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF SHE EVER DID. SHE WAS SCREWING OTHER MEN... IN YOUR PLACE OF WORK. SHE HAS SHOWN A LEVEL OF DIRESPECT THAT IS ALMOST NOT HEARD OF.
> 
> DO YOU GET ME. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.
> 
> Ok, I won't yell anymore for now.
> 
> You need to stay strong, don't open that door, hit her hard, get your balls back and start a new life...


Is this the same Blues Power from LS? If so, it's good to see you here man! You and Alive Again were two of the very few posters on that site whose advice I looked for in threads because it was consistently clear and on target.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> 
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.



Scuba, I understand why you are not chit chat with her, but why won’t you talk with her about the situation. Talk is cheap. You could tell her that you will talk with her only if the first topic of conversation is why she slept with OM and tell her that “I don’t know” isn’t going to cut it. If she still doesn’t come with a plausible reason, such as, he promised me a promotion, he made me feel sexy, I fell in love with him, his ugly hairy **** is better than yours, he paid me a huge amount of cash, I wanted the excitement and I didn’t think you’d find out, my toxic girlfriend talked me into it... something... then the conversation is over. You probably don’t want any more details about what happened, but you are always going to wonder why? if you don’t get some explanation.

By rejecting her dinner+sex ploy, you cut her love for you once. By rejecting her wish to talk last night, you cut it again. Any love she had for you is now bleeding to death. When it dies completely, it will be replaced by hate, and she will become a hardened, cold adversary who is going to make your life even more miserable than she did by the affair, in the divorce, and when co-parenting later.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


Take your time picking an attorney. A good one will tell you flat out what to expect given current situation. They first will be asking you many many questions before offering opinions. Be ready with a list of itemized assets and whats left on the mortgages plus total compensation last 3- 5 years for both f you. 

When she tries the emotional blackmail of snot crying all night outside your door remember this...

She walked out with her phone saying "You are sooooooo controlling......." 

You had to tear your house apart like a madman to find the evidence she so desperately tried to hide from you with her dishonesty. 

So far she has only admitted a little more than you already knew plus attempted to conceal. 

Now she wants a signal on where you are headed in your decision. 

Some may say it may be helpful to let someone in her family know that she was not completely honest in her confession and you gave her one chance. Let that filter back to her. 

Problem with that is it is a slippery slope of getting trickled truth to death with lies by omission. Many will tell you the constant lying is what betrayed spouses never can accept, even more than the infidelity itself. 

So remote or regret? Time will tell through her actions. Meanwhile stay strong.


----------



## drifting on

bandit.45 said:


> I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says.
> 
> Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture.
> 
> Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....
> 
> She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.





Lol!!! SOFT!!! Never!! You probably just haven’t had your cup of coffee yet. 

I just don’t see it as remorse, I see it as she is manipulating, scared, fearful, her entire life is about to explode. In my opinion it’s pure regret, everything she has done to now is not an ounce of remorse. I’d even go so far to say she has no remorse for her daughter either, probably acting as if status quo is still the normal in front of her.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


Or manipulative and desperate. Who knows. I would put no stock in anything she does immediately following dday. Whether you R or D true remorse will be a long process.


----------



## Truthseeker1

drifting on said:


> Lol!!! SOFT!!! Never!! You probably just haven’t had your cup of coffee yet.
> 
> I just don’t see it as remorse, I see it as she is manipulating, scared, fearful, her entire life is about to explode. In my opinion it’s pure regret, everything she has done to now is not an ounce of remorse. I’d even go so far to say she has no remorse for her daughter either, probably acting as if status quo is still the normal in front of her.


Agreed...every cheater just wants to get away with it with as little consequences as possible.


----------



## re16

Edmund said:


> By rejecting her dinner+sex ploy, you cut her love for you once. By rejecting her wish to talk last night, you cut it again. Any love she had for you is now bleeding to death. When it dies completely, it will be replaced by hate, and she will become a hardened, cold adversary who is going to make your life even more miserable than she did by the affair, in the divorce, and when co-parenting later.


Um, Steve is not the one causing her love for him to bleed to death, she did that herself. She wasn't thinking about how much she loved Steve when she was spreading her legs for Grandpa. That love was long gone if that was ever really there. Steve is the victim here and he has every right to reject her begging, pleading, and make up sex ploys. 
He walked away, it wasn't like he was intentionally mean to her. 

She is following the female wayward 101 script for how to attempt a rugsweep.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.


----------



## Chuck71

Malaise said:


> Desperation and manipulation. Initiating sex didn't work so she tried this.


Next up......... think of your daughter growing up in a broken home......

Then.... it will get really nasty, really fast. Be prepared.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

If she really wants to talk then ask her the following

1. Why Grandpa? I don't know is BS
2. How did it start? At the office flirting,or what ever
3. When did it start? Business trip,etc
4. Has she ever been to his house in NJ. (you know the answer)
5. Who else knows? family, friends, toxic friend
6. Has he ever been to your house? 
7. Does she have any idea how you feel right now?
8 Did she ever consider what would happen if she was caught?

Do not become angry or upset, do not text her or e-mail her
face to face.If she truly wants R she has along way to go.
SHE FIRST NEEDS TO ACCEPT WHAT SHE DID AND OWN IT
not just try and make it go away. And yes she will get angry
because things are not going her way. 
I BET SHE DOES NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY OF THIS!
She will probably lock herself in her room


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says.
> 
> Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture.
> 
> Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....
> 
> She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.


And IF......IF.... you even considered R (I'm not saying you should, I would be gone too)....

read some R threads here. If a R is not handled correctly, you actually give them a green light.... to do it again.

If I was your age, in your shoes, child.... and WW was 110% remorseful, I would still D.

I would date her again, after the D. But having my last name, would be over. Having the perks of being

Mrs. Scuba would be over. Custody would be 50 / 50 and zero child support either way. And zero alimony.

Well... if you want something bad enough...... 

If it works out.... years down the road, get M again.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Im doing alright given everything that has happened.
> 
> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.
> 
> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


Remorse is a requirement, but in my opinion that is really all it should be as far as being a factor on if you decide to R or not. This is your life we are talking about so make the decision on what the quality of your life will be if you stay with her. Not sure you are even considering R or not but I personally think there is no way to know right away. I know I keep hammering this point but I do so because I read so many threads from folks in R who quite obviously have a very poor quality of life. They post stuff like, I think about this every day sometime decades later. It's obvious that their marriage to them has become something of a sunk cost fallacy. The affair seems to be the primary focus of their relationship, and they are not happy. Life is short and you only get one, time is finite and priceless. Everything in life ends, and there would have been a time when this relationship ended even if she didn't cheat. Even still I DO think you can know if you are done, but how can you know what it is like to spend the rest of your life with someone who treated you so bad, even if they are remorseful.

There are no soulmates, there are hundreds of thousands women out there right now who you could have just as, and at this point even a more fulfilling relationship with. I promise you. 

I think divorce in this case is a good idea, let her compete if she really wants you. At least then you will know her true motivation, and you can also get a chance to see if there is better out there too.


----------



## dubsey

What Chuck's alluded to is exactly what I've done. It's worked out well for me and it's not uncomplicated. We're together, but I'll never remarry, and she knows that, and for now, is ok with it.


----------



## wilson

Scuba_Steve said:


> I meet with my first lawyer. I’m definitely will not be using him. He spent 30 minuets telling me how screwed I am. Like no **** that’s why I’m here I wouldn’t willing to pay you if I wasn’t. Hopefully one of the two I see today will be better.


Why are you screwed? You both are working. Why wouldn't it be 50/50 with no child support or alimony?


----------



## Gabriel

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife is getting real desperate now. Last night while I was in my home office she came in asking if we could talk. I continued to ignore her. Once she realized I wasn’t listening she literally started to beg and cry at one point she was on her knees. I started to feel uncomfortable, I went to guest room to go sleep. She followed me I obviously wouldn’t let her in so she slept on the floor by the door. If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


This is a very good step. And frankly, this does sound like remorse to me. She is finally realizing the gravity of what she's done. I mean, it doesn't get more remorseful than sleeping on the floor by the door of the room you are in.

How does it make you feel? Does it make you want to talk with her, or are you too far gone at this point?

Remember, there is still time for you to decide either way here. 

But see, you HAD to get to this spot FIRST. And you have. Nicely done.


----------



## Gabriel

bandit.45 said:


> I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says.
> 
> Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture.
> 
> Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....
> 
> She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.


Agree completely. While it's possible this might be regret and not remorse, it's certainly seems to be heading there very quickly. Sometimes people just love to hear the wayward suffer.


----------



## BluesPower

*Re: No buddy, she is not remorseful...*



lostmyreligion said:


> Is this the same Blues Power from LS? If so, it's good to see you here man! You and Alive Again were two of the very few posters on that site whose advice I looked for in threads because it was consistently clear and on target.


Yes it is. Thanks for the compliment. I do what I can...


----------



## Chuck71

wilson said:


> Why are you screwed? You both are working. Why wouldn't it be 50/50 with no child support or alimony?


Two reasons............ 1-He faces the outdated court system and 2-He is in NY.


----------



## Cynthia

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> Although I can’t witness your wife’s actions, I will say this, regret at it finest. Remorse is a whole different animal then sleeping outside your door. Best description of remorse is her feeling the pain she inflicted upon you. Sleeping outside your door is simply her wanting to be near you as she feels the distance her actions caused. Had you been near here she would have felt content, which is regret and not remorse. Continue forward with your plan, limit your talks as you have, get a very good lawyer.


You are so smart. Wow. This is such a good distinction between regret and remorse.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I must be getting soft because I'm not as hardcore against your WW as some of the previous posters. I would say watch her and bide your time. Watch what she does, not what she says.
> 
> Don't give her anything until you are convinced the OM is completely out of the picture.
> 
> Whether or not her actions are sincere only you can know. If you are considering R, make her jump through hoops: Written timeline, no-contact letter sent to OM, STD screening, weekly IC, quitting her job, admitting her affair to family and friends....
> 
> She has a lot to do...on her own initiative... before you should even consider reconciling.


If she were at all suited to reconciliation, she’d have done all of this already.


----------



## Windwalker

wilson said:


> Why are you screwed? You both are working. Why wouldn't it be 50/50 with no child support or alimony?


Damn good question. 
They both work with only a 2 year old daughter. 
Don't understand how he's screwed. 



Edmund said:


> Scuba you are going to be screwed... child support payments x 4 or maybe even 5. Changing attorneys won’t change the law. You should talk to several good ones simply to keep her from retaining them with OM’s money. Given the way you are shutting her out now, she is going to be very angry.


Child support payments x 4 or 5?
Are we reading the same thread?

And as far as the rest, some men are willing to live on their knees, whereas some some will stand and face their destruction head on with both birds flying high. 

I myself will NEVER live a single day on my knees! Period! 

It's up to Steve to determine his course of action.

Stay on the lawyer hunt Steve. The first one sounded like a ****ing leech. "You're screwed, but I'll be happy to take you to the cleaners". Glad you told him to go get bent!

Stay strong!


----------



## GusPolinski

Gabriel said:


> Agree completely. While it's possible this might be regret and not remorse, it's certainly seems to be heading there very quickly. Sometimes people just love to hear the wayward suffer.


There is a certain selflessness to remorse that distinguishes it from regret, and she’s not shown any of that.


----------



## drifting on

CynthiaDe said:


> You are so smart. Wow. This is such a good distinction between regret and remorse.




Truth is, I wish I didn’t know the difference, or that infidelity didn’t happen to me or any other poster here. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. God bless us all.


----------



## Cynthia

drifting on said:


> Truth is, I wish I didn’t know the difference, or that infidelity didn’t happen to me or any other poster here. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. God bless us all.


Absolutely, but most people, even those who have gone through the heartbreak of adultery, cannot make a distinction. It is so difficult for most of us to see the difference between remorse and regret, but you summed up that particular situation exactly right and it makes it so clear. Posts like that are so helpful in gaining insight. I personally prefer to be aware, even when it hurts. Sometimes this has made my life hellish, but at least I'm not blind.


----------



## GusPolinski

CynthiaDe said:


> Absolutely, but most people, even those who have gone through the heartbreak of adultery, cannot make a distinction. It is so difficult for most of us to see the difference between remorse and regret, but you summed up that particular situation exactly right and it makes it so clear. Posts like that are so helpful in gaining insight. I personally prefer to be aware, even when it hurts. Sometimes this has made my life hellish, but at least I'm not blind.


People _going through it_ can’t tell the difference because they’re still in the trenches: there’s blood and guts everywhere, smoke and dust in the air, and the guns are still going off — it’s very disorienting.

And then, on top of all of that, there’s the pain.

People who _*have been* through it_ tend to be at least a bit better at distinguishing the two.


----------



## GusPolinski

All of her weeping and pleading is about HER — more specifically, avoiding consequences for HER.

Prior to being confronted she was doing some (very light) lovebombing.

When initially confronted she lied.

When she couldn’t lie anymore she gave a partial confession and tried to rugsweep — and you can believe that there were no plans for a change in job.

Everything she’s given since has been piecemeal trickle-truth bull****.

Nothing that she’s given to date has been offered out of anything but her selfish desire to hang onto the things that SHE values (and neither her family nor her marriage is at the top of that list), and in such a way that any _actual_ impact to her is mitagated to the furthest degree possible.

And that’s exactly why none of it is remorse.


----------



## TDSC60

GusPolinski said:


> What she’s saying is this: for every WW transmitting HPV — or worse — to her BH, there’s a WH doing the same to his BW.
> 
> After all, cheating women tend to cheat with cheating men, and cheating men tend to cheat with cheating women.


Yep. I got that. That is why I said 50/50. Transmitted to wife by cheating husband or transmitted to husband by cheating wife - 50/50.


----------



## alte Dame

Several observations:

- I think that regret comes first and shows itself as a wake-up call to the ****show that the WW has wrought. As the consequences start to dawn on the WW, regret and fear can cause a CYA reaction that many people think must be remorse. This is a selfish, self-protective reaction. Remorse, however, as I understand it, comes later (and not to all people) after the WW has taken the time to look deeply at him/herself and start to see the pain that the infidelity has caused. Experiencing the pain is to me the remorse.

I don't think that Steve's WW is anywhere near that. She's doing CYA, in my opinion.

- She has been in control this whole time: She had the A and was planning to just get on with the M. All good. Steve has been playing catch-up and is now wresting control from her. She is thus flailing, trying to do anything she can think of to recover control.

- The idea that 'grandpa' is shocking and/or ludicrous is itself a surprise to me. I think it's a biological reality that females are attracted to providers and 'good provider' can be signaled by power and wealth. Lots of old coots have young, attractive women on their arms if they have enough money or power to carry it off. The OM here appears to have both.

In general, I agree with everyone who says this is not remorse that Steve is seeing. This doesn't mean that she can't get there, though, imo.

ETA that I'm sure that Steve hits all the notes for a 'provider.' I'm just commenting on why some women will 'affair old.'


----------



## TDSC60

GusPolinski said:


> All of her weeping and pleading is about HER — more specifically, avoiding consequences for HER.
> 
> Prior to being confronted she was doing some (very light) lovebombing.
> 
> When initially confronted she lied.
> 
> When she couldn’t lie anymore she gave a partial confession and tried to rugsweep — and you can believe that there were no plans for a change in job.
> 
> Everything she’s given since has been piecemeal trickle-truth bull****.
> 
> Nothing that she’s given to date has been offered out of anything but her selfish desire to hang onto the things that SHE values (and neither her family nor her marriage is at the top of that list), and in such a way that any _actual_ impact to her is mitagated to the furthest degree possible.
> 
> 
> And that’s exactly why none of it is remorse.


I agree. She still does not understand how much pain she has inflicted on Steve --- or she doesn't care. It is still all about her and her image. 

Her focus is on avoiding the loss of her job and not having the affair become public knowledge because it would make her look bad. If it comes out, she will look like a gold digger or corporate ladder climber who jumped into bed with a guy 30 years older than her to move up in the company, while throwing her husband and family in the gutter along the way.

Steve - I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but do not have sex with her. In some States, having sex with a cheater after you know that they have had an affair is viewed as forgiveness and acceptance. Not sure about your State. Good question for a lawyer.


----------



## TAMAT

And why would a woman who had multiple physical encounters with someone who is in a high risk population, serial cheating males, want to have sex with her husband without going for a full battery STD test and waiting 6 months to a year for the HPV, Herpes or HIV to manifest itself. 

Does she want both parents to die from whatever she caught from OM.

Tamat


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Have you had her served yet? 

2. Is divorce a certainty? Then go to cart and check out now.

3. If not, then you may have to have a sit down discussion to outline your course of action with her.

4. If there is a sit down, then you have to have 3 things *in a prepared agenda*; 
a). *a list of questions* that must be answered with total honesty, even if she thinks it will cause you to continue with the divorce, 
b). *a list of requirements* that must be met to continue negotiations, 
c). *a list of actions* that must be taken to even consider "R", rejection of which continues the divorce.

5. If you wish to maintain control of the situation, she may need to believe there is a chance of "R". Otherwise the only person in control will be a couple of lawyers. Then it will become a business negotiation, and since you chose to live in the Matriarchy of New York, basically you are screwed. :frown2:


----------



## Edmund

Windwalker said:


> Child support payments x 4 or 5?
> Are we reading the same thread?


MEA CULPA. Dam, Windwalker, you are exactly right. I have both Scuba and L81R open at the same time and got confused between the two.

Scuba I am so sorry about that. This means I am getting too involved in this board when I don't really have a dog in these fights. Please ignore my advice regarding whether you are "screwed" or not. I will edit it out.

In your thread, your wife having an affair with an old guy my age seems just awful. You probably should divorce over this. It is clear your wife is hurting now, though. I wouldn't try to make her hurt more. Just be civil and get it done.

L81R has 4 children including a baby plus a step-son with his wife. He will be screwed as far as child support. Latest info he has indicates that she wasn't cheating after all; but he is still divorcing her anyway, and she isn't trying to stop it like Scuba's wife is.

I am going to bow out now before I make things even worse.

Thanks Windwalker and may God bless everyone everywhere with all of our screwed up lives.


----------



## Windwalker

Edmund said:


> MEA CULPA. Dam, Windwalker, you are exactly right. I have both Scuba and L81R open at the same time and got confused between the two.
> 
> Scuba I am so sorry about that. This means I am getting too involved in this board when I don't really have a dog in these fights. Please ignore my advice regarding whether you are "screwed" or not. I will edit it out.
> 
> In your thread, your wife having an affair with an old guy my age seems just awful. You probably should divorce over this. It is clear your wife is hurting now, though. I wouldn't try to make her hurt more. Just be civil and get it done.
> 
> L81R has 4 children including a baby plus a step-son with his wife. He will be screwed as far as child support. Latest info he has indicates that she wasn't cheating after all; but he is still divorcing her anyway, and she isn't trying to stop it like Scuba's wife is.
> 
> I am going to bow out now before I make things even worse.
> 
> Thanks Windwalker and may God bless everyone everywhere with all of our screwed up lives.


No biggie.
We all goof at times.


----------



## Windwalker

TAMAT said:


> And why would a woman who had multiple physical encounters with someone who is in a high risk population, serial cheating males, want to have sex with her husband without going for a full battery STD test and waiting 6 months to a year for the HPV, Herpes or HIV to manifest itself.
> 
> Does she want both parents to die from whatever she caught from OM.
> 
> Tamat


Selfishness, cake eating, ect, ect.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Edmund said:


> MEA CULPA. Dam, Windwalker, you are exactly right. I have both Scuba and L81R open at the same time and got confused between the two.
> 
> Scuba I am so sorry about that. This means I am getting too involved in this board when I don't really have a dog in these fights. Please ignore my advice regarding whether you are "screwed" or not. I will edit it out.
> 
> In your thread, your wife having an affair with an old guy my age seems just awful. You probably should divorce over this. It is clear your wife is hurting now, though. I wouldn't try to make her hurt more. Just be civil and get it done.
> 
> L81R has 4 children including a baby plus a step-son with his wife. He will be screwed as far as child support. Latest info he has indicates that she wasn't cheating after all; but he is still divorcing her anyway, and she isn't trying to stop it like Scuba's wife is.
> 
> I am going to bow out now before I make things even worse.
> 
> Thanks Windwalker and may God bless everyone everywhere with all of our screwed up lives.


If everyone who crossed threads stopped posting there'd be no one here to help anyone.


----------



## Gabriel

TDSC60 said:


> I agree. She still does not understand how much pain she has inflicted on Steve --- or she doesn't care. It is still all about her and her image.
> 
> Her focus is on avoiding the loss of her job and not having the affair become public knowledge because it would make her look bad. If it comes out, she will look like a gold digger or corporate ladder climber who jumped into bed with a guy 30 years older than her to move up in the company, while throwing her husband and family in the gutter along the way.


Perhaps. Honestly people, we don't KNOW whether she's remorseful or just trying to cover her a$$.

All we are doing is reading words - we aren't there.

I still think the OM told her that she was never going to be his full-time girl. So wife is crashing. She went for some brass ring and it was yanked away from her. So now she realizes what a dumba$$ she's been. And she's submitting to her colossal offense. This is EXACTLY why we tell betrayed people to pull the 180, go cold, etc. It's WORKING.

I'd rather see this play out and see if she will submit so far as to start turning Steve's mind a little bit. Not rooting for any particular result here, but this progress is healthy, and something most betrayed spouses don't even get to experience. 

Note, there is only so much someone can take though. If Steve is truly done and will never show mercy, or if he is hopeful for R but strings this out too long, she will eventually give up and then stop doing these desperate things. Perhaps even turn despondent and give up (or maybe angry).

If Steve is leaving the door open even the slightest bit, the key is to get her at her bottom point, before she gives up or gets angry, and then begin the hard conversations that are necessary. If Steve has shut that door forever, then, I guess who cares.


----------



## BluesPower

*I am sorry, are you seriously asking this quesiton?????*



TAMAT said:


> And why would a woman who had multiple physical encounters with someone who is in a high risk population, serial cheating males, want to have sex with her husband without going for a full battery STD test and waiting 6 months to a year for the HPV, Herpes or HIV to manifest itself.
> 
> Does she want both parents to die from whatever she caught from OM.
> 
> Tamat


I guess you just don't understand. Wow. What she is doing is trying to save her a$$. She knows Steve is done, she knows Steve knows that she lied. She figured that out after she lied on the poly. 

When I said she would deep throat him to the end of time, that is not joke. That S*** is real. She would give him anal on demand for the rest of the marriage if she thought she could keep her husband. 

And it is not because she loves him. She is in self preservation mode, and that is all. 

Right now, she is just starting to come out of the affair fog and realize that she blew it. She is starting to realize that when she lied about only having sex with OM/old fart 5 times, that was so far the biggest mistake of her life besides sleeping with all the OM she slept with. 

When he said "we are done", that is when she started to come out of the fog. That exact second, is when she started to realize that her husband actually had a set of balls and she was not able to control him. 

The fact the she is desperate to F*** him to try and get him back is the most basic cheater behavior in the world. 

She knows he is done. She knows that the only way that she can get Steve back is to pull out all of the stops. 

I don't think Steve will fall for it, I think he is too strong now, but regardless that is what she is trying to do...


----------



## sa58

Regardless of what she has done with who
or how many times, it was her choice to
do it. She was not forced to do anything.
Now it is Steve's choice to do what
ever he decides to do. Steve loves his
wife you can tell by reading his thread
posts. He thought she loved him also.

I hope that Steve is mentally ready for
this weekend. Since she has tired sex/dinner
and loving and now sleeping outside his door
what is next?


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

Have you had a chance to talk with the friend and his father yet? This would obviously be your main strategic move as far as putting you in the driver's seat. 

Remember, they will not endanger the company. They will, however, be powerful allies in dealing with the OM & the CEO. 

The fact that you own companies also is a powerful tool in that you do not have to have this job to survive. The fact that you have two houses in the New York area tells me that you are fairly well off in the scheme of things.

I think that this leaves you with more to lose than your WW. This must enter in to your dealings with her, that and the fact that you are not over her. It may be that "R" would end up being a better option.

One thing has not been mentioned much is your daughter. You and your wife will be connected through her for the next 15 years or so whether you divorce of not. You also have to consider that if you do divorce, the men that come into your daughter's life will not be chosen by you.

It was striking to me that the thing that really set you off was that she had driven your new car when she went to see the OM. That rang of disrespect to you. You do deserve more than that and she needs to pay a price. She will owe you for the rest of her life if you do "R". She needs to know this above all and you need to remember it.

You have a lot of decisions to make. This story has a lot of facets to it. Right now you are still reeling from her sucker punch, but you have gotten some counter punches in and now she is back on her heels. 

You may need to file on her to get the knock out punch. Remember, this is a temporary strategy. Filing is not divorcing but it is the beginning, & it will really throw cold water in her face. Strike while the iron is hot. Show her strength, courage, & decisiveness. Do that for your daughter, yourself, & for your wife.


----------



## TAMAT

Someone wrote *what is next?* Possibly a fake or real suicide attempt, 

Steve needs to be on alert about this, no matter what she has done she is still the mother of a young child. It does not sound like his WW is homicidal but who knows. 

Tamat


----------



## manfromlamancha

manfromlamancha said:


> I still do not get the attraction to the old man. Has she offered any kind of explanation as to how she could be attracted to someone old enough to be her father or grandfather?


This is good progress as others have said. She may well be truly remorseful now. However, you still need the complete truth. You need to know what was in her mind and what she is capable of. Without an honest answer to the above, for example, you will never know who she truly is. She needs to either say, yes I really fancied him and I am quite capable of fancying wrinkly old men given the right circumstances which are ..., or offer some other truthful answer. You still do not know her or what she is capable of. You need to get these answers from her.


----------



## Malaise

TAMAT said:


> And why would a woman who had multiple physical encounters with someone who is in a high risk population, serial cheating males, want to have sex with her husband without going for a full battery STD test and waiting 6 months to a year for the HPV, Herpes or HIV to manifest itself.
> 
> Does she want both parents to die from whatever she caught from OM.
> 
> Tamat


The same woman who thought she'd never get caught. That she was invincible. That it wouldn't happen to her. etc.

She was too smart for OP. She thought.


----------



## Windwalker

sa58 said:


> I hope that Steve is mentally ready for
> this weekend. Since she has tired sex/dinner
> and loving and now sleeping outside his door
> what is next?


That is a disturbing and scary thought considering she has used up all her sure fire ammo. Aka - a vagina coma.

Stay vigilant Steve!


----------



## ABHale

All I will say at this point is this, I have never heard of a WW sleeping out side the door of the BH. 

The utter and with out any hiding humility in this action speaks volumes. 

I believe she understands the damage she has caused and it has hit home with a “O damn what have I done”.

I still believe divorce is the right path. The marriage ended when Steve’s wife cheated. 

If she wants to date Steve again after the divorce she better treat him right during the divorce. 

Steve if she truly wants a second chance she will prove that during the divorce.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

ABHale said:


> All I will say at this point is this, I have never heard of a WW sleeping out side the door of the BH.
> 
> The utter and with out any hiding humility in this action speaks volumes.
> 
> I believe she understands the damage she has caused and it has hit home with a “O damn what have I done”.
> 
> I still believe divorce is the right path. The marriage ended when Steve’s wife cheated.
> 
> If she wants to date Steve again after the divorce she better treat him right during the divorce.
> 
> Steve if she truly wants a second chance she will prove that during the divorce.


I agree. She hit some kind of turning point. A WS usually goes back to their bedroom and sleeps more soundly than the BS. Whether she can do the work ahead of her is a different story.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Josephine slept outside Napoleon's door after news reached him of her infidelity.


----------



## Malaise

Tatsuhiko said:


> I agree. She hit some kind of turning point. A WS usually goes back to their bedroom and sleeps more soundly than the BS. Whether she can do the work ahead of her is a different story.


She expected him to cave in. That's how little respect she had for him.


----------



## drifting on

ABHale said:


> All I will say at this point is this, I have never heard of a WW sleeping out side the door of the BH.
> 
> The utter and with out any hiding humility in this action speaks volumes.
> 
> I believe she understands the damage she has caused and it has hit home with a “O damn what have I done”.
> 
> I still believe divorce is the right path. The marriage ended when Steve’s wife cheated.
> 
> If she wants to date Steve again after the divorce she better treat him right during the divorce.
> 
> Steve if she truly wants a second chance she will prove that during the divorce.




ABHale

I agree with so many of your posts, understand this to be debating with the utmost of respect.

Sleeping outside his door may not be commonly heard of, but it did come after her failed dinner and sex the night before. The dinner and sex was pure cheater manipulation to fog up Steve’s mind, an attempt to show Steve what he is missing. In the betrayeds mind it works somewhat differently. The betrayed sees his wife as trying to convince them that sex will cure everything. Like as if she is now Steve’s again, it’s steves to reclaim as his own. There’s only one little problem to how Steve’s wife is thinking, Steve has had TAM members to warn him. Steve is now repulsed that she gave his special “playground” away to OM, and TAM members are saying that’s not the only “playground”. 

Steve’s wife has definitely found a turning point, one that she now sees and feels quite clearly. Steve has had the strength to apply the 180 and not fall for her pitiful ploys to reel him back in. Each ploy that fails makes her next that much more pitiful. Dinner and sex would be most men’s dream to come home to, but not after infidelity. After infidelity it is simply a manipulative move by the WS. Now Steve’s wife sees that failed, so she wants to talk and comes to him, but Steve is strong and ignores her and then simply walks away. Her next move is to sleep outside his door the night after her manipulative move. Steve’s wife isn’t stupid, she knows how close she is to losing him forever, and she’s regretting her choices with OM. That is the turning point she has come to, regret, nothing more.

Earlier Steve questioned her of the condoms, she said she had no idea. She then left angrily with the daughter to go to her moms. Two days later she comes back, Steve sleeps in the spare room and she is mad at Steve. She has missed one day of work, nothing more, and has not offered to quit or find another job according to Steve’s posts. Nope, she continues forward with being with OM each and every day with the exception of once. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that they are working together, sharing time and phone calls. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that each day she goes to work it kills Steve internally, that she doesn’t make Steve feel safe. When she gets to this point Steve will know, it is something Steve hasn’t seen yet and it has a look all it’s own. 

Unfortunately Steve’s wife is still in self preservation mode, she is still thinking only of herself. What she has done is probably the advice of her toxic friend, cook him dinner and offer sex, Steve will be happy to just get a little piece of you and all will be fine. It sickens me to even write that, but for all we know this is who steves wife could be listening too. Steve’s wife is now going to trap him, smother him, give him no breathing room, anything to get her desired response from Steve. Pure regret, sleep outside his room so she gets HER desired response, which is, any kind of interaction with Steve. 

Sorry, I only see her sleeping outside his door as selfish and manipulative, or as pure regret.


----------



## BluesPower

Guys, everyone that is starting to feel sorry for Steve's wife really needs to re-read this post by @drifting on. 

This post is exactly correct. 

And I would further add... Remember that everyone in WW's and OM's area of the company KNOWS that they were screwing around. And Everyone that knows, knows who Steve is. 

There is almost nothing worse that she could do to show more disrespect to Steve than what she has done. 

I mean I guess his wife could have organized a gangbang in the lunch room, and sent the video out on company wide email, but that might have been a little extreme!!!!!



drifting on said:


> ABHale
> 
> I agree with so many of your posts, understand this to be debating with the utmost of respect.
> 
> Sleeping outside his door may not be commonly heard of, but it did come after her failed dinner and sex the night before. The dinner and sex was pure cheater manipulation to fog up Steve’s mind, an attempt to show Steve what he is missing. In the betrayeds mind it works somewhat differently. The betrayed sees his wife as trying to convince them that sex will cure everything. Like as if she is now Steve’s again, it’s steves to reclaim as his own. There’s only one little problem to how Steve’s wife is thinking, Steve has had TAM members to warn him. Steve is now repulsed that she gave his special “playground” away to OM, and TAM members are saying that’s not the only “playground”.
> 
> Steve’s wife has definitely found a turning point, one that she now sees and feels quite clearly. Steve has had the strength to apply the 180 and not fall for her pitiful ploys to reel him back in. Each ploy that fails makes her next that much more pitiful. Dinner and sex would be most men’s dream to come home to, but not after infidelity. After infidelity it is simply a manipulative move by the WS. Now Steve’s wife sees that failed, so she wants to talk and comes to him, but Steve is strong and ignores her and then simply walks away. Her next move is to sleep outside his door the night after her manipulative move. Steve’s wife isn’t stupid, she knows how close she is to losing him forever, and she’s regretting her choices with OM. That is the turning point she has come to, regret, nothing more.
> 
> Earlier Steve questioned her of the condoms, she said she had no idea. She then left angrily with the daughter to go to her moms. Two days later she comes back, Steve sleeps in the spare room and she is mad at Steve. She has missed one day of work, nothing more, and has not offered to quit or find another job according to Steve’s posts. Nope, she continues forward with being with OM each and every day with the exception of once. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that they are working together, sharing time and phone calls. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that each day she goes to work it kills Steve internally, that she doesn’t make Steve feel safe. When she gets to this point Steve will know, it is something Steve hasn’t seen yet and it has a look all it’s own.
> 
> Unfortunately Steve’s wife is still in self preservation mode, she is still thinking only of herself. What she has done is probably the advice of her toxic friend, cook him dinner and offer sex, Steve will be happy to just get a little piece of you and all will be fine. It sickens me to even write that, but for all we know this is who steves wife could be listening too. Steve’s wife is now going to trap him, smother him, give him no breathing room, anything to get her desired response from Steve. Pure regret, sleep outside his room so she gets HER desired response, which is, any kind of interaction with Steve.
> 
> Sorry, I only see her sleeping outside his door as selfish and manipulative, or as pure regret.


----------



## Marc878

@drifting on 

Is correct. 

This is REGRET for how it's affecting *her* and possibly a wake up call with the perceived impact to *her* future. 

Divorce is now a real thing. She's in manipulation mode.

She though sex and dinner would fix this? Obviously fidelity is just a game to her. Marriage/vows are meaningless to her. 

If Steve steps back and takes a hard look he may find this is a marriage not worth saving. At her age and so early in the marriage could this be a taste of more to come in the future?

Most BS's upfront just want them back but afterwards with reflection often brings clarity.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. When will papers be filed & served?

2. Have you talked with your friend and his father yet?

3. What was her reaction the next morning after sleeping outside your door?

4. How has your lawyer search been going?


----------



## sa58

I do not feel any sympathy for Steve's wife
I feel Steve is in a lot of pain and turmoil
all caused by his wife and a dirty old man.
His wife knows the present power structure 
at the company. She knows the OM put his 
friend the CEO in place. I think she was just
trying to move up or get a connection (SEX)
with the OM. I hope the OM as some of us think 
kicked her to the curb so to speak. 

Steve has given her a chance and she still lied
more than 5 times. I think she is willing to do
anything now to keep her true self from being
exposed to everyone. She lied and tried to hide 
everything from Steve and still is. I think if 
Steve got data from her phone he would be shocked 
even more. Deleted pictures/texts and everything else.

She simply has gotten caught and is still trying to
control the situation and Steve is not buying it.
I cannot imagine how Steve feels knowing people 
at work know about her and the OM and he goes to 
work there everyday.Does she feel any shame or 
humiliation going to work. Probably not! I think Steve
is very tired and has realized the truth, as much as it 
hurts and is now standing up and taking his life back.

We are all here for you Steve, Stay strong 
HOPE YOU ARE SAFE!!!


----------



## x598

SS
something to think about, it took your wife a long time to grow into the person she has become.

now that its laid bare and you see her for who she is, its not going to be something that she instantly snaps out of.

think of it this way....you can't take a plant and spray fertilizer on the roots and tug on them to make it grow faster.

in fact, all too many times, people don't grow and change at all.......usually it is only through great pain of personal loss that they cant do anything about that only then will they start to self reflect and learn THEY were the root of the problem. and sometimes that doesn't happen at all, someone can just harden and become more entrenched in their views so as to not have to take any responsibility for their actions......because after all....it was someone else's fault too cause them to make the choices they did.......gag.

what I am getting at, is your wife might have "moments" of remorse, but real change takes years and hard work. something you need to ask yourself if you are willing to sit through and most likely not see meaningful change.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve, any change on the lawyer front?
Keep looking, you will find a good one.


----------



## Windwalker

drifting on said:


> ABHale
> 
> I agree with so many of your posts, understand this to be debating with the utmost of respect.
> 
> Sleeping outside his door may not be commonly heard of, but it did come after her failed dinner and sex the night before. The dinner and sex was pure cheater manipulation to fog up Steve’s mind, an attempt to show Steve what he is missing. In the betrayeds mind it works somewhat differently. The betrayed sees his wife as trying to convince them that sex will cure everything. Like as if she is now Steve’s again, it’s steves to reclaim as his own. There’s only one little problem to how Steve’s wife is thinking, Steve has had TAM members to warn him. Steve is now repulsed that she gave his special “playground” away to OM, and TAM members are saying that’s not the only “playground”.
> 
> Steve’s wife has definitely found a turning point, one that she now sees and feels quite clearly. Steve has had the strength to apply the 180 and not fall for her pitiful ploys to reel him back in. Each ploy that fails makes her next that much more pitiful. Dinner and sex would be most men’s dream to come home to, but not after infidelity. After infidelity it is simply a manipulative move by the WS. Now Steve’s wife sees that failed, so she wants to talk and comes to him, but Steve is strong and ignores her and then simply walks away. Her next move is to sleep outside his door the night after her manipulative move. Steve’s wife isn’t stupid, she knows how close she is to losing him forever, and she’s regretting her choices with OM. That is the turning point she has come to, regret, nothing more.
> 
> Earlier Steve questioned her of the condoms, she said she had no idea. She then left angrily with the daughter to go to her moms. Two days later she comes back, Steve sleeps in the spare room and she is mad at Steve. She has missed one day of work, nothing more, and has not offered to quit or find another job according to Steve’s posts. Nope, she continues forward with being with OM each and every day with the exception of once. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that they are working together, sharing time and phone calls. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that each day she goes to work it kills Steve internally, that she doesn’t make Steve feel safe. When she gets to this point Steve will know, it is something Steve hasn’t seen yet and it has a look all it’s own.
> 
> Unfortunately Steve’s wife is still in self preservation mode, she is still thinking only of herself. What she has done is probably the advice of her toxic friend, cook him dinner and offer sex, Steve will be happy to just get a little piece of you and all will be fine. It sickens me to even write that, but for all we know this is who steves wife could be listening too. Steve’s wife is now going to trap him, smother him, give him no breathing room, anything to get her desired response from Steve. Pure regret, sleep outside his room so she gets HER desired response, which is, any kind of interaction with Steve.
> 
> Sorry, I only see her sleeping outside his door as selfish and manipulative, or as pure regret.


BTW, this is pure gold!

This ought to be stickied!


----------



## Evinrude58

I think one should ask themselves this after learning of a cheating spouse:

Does this person love me? Do I believe this person is trustworthy?
Do I feel like I can live with what’s happened, or do I think it will be something that brings pain forever?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Evinrude58 said:


> I think one should ask themselves this after learning of a cheating spouse:
> 
> Does this person love me? Do I believe this person is trustworthy?
> Do I feel like I can live with what’s happened, or do I think it will be something that brings pain forever?


I'm not sure if those are helpful questions. 

The third may have a legitimate yes or no answer.

But the answer to the first is almost always "no" and the second most definitely is a resounding "no."


----------



## manwithnoname

Evinrude58 said:


> I think one should ask themselves this after learning of a cheating spouse:
> 
> Does this person love me? Do I believe this person is trustworthy?
> Do I feel like I can live with what’s happened, or do I think it will be something that brings pain forever?





Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm not sure if those are helpful questions.
> 
> The third may have a legitimate yes or no answer.
> 
> But the answer to the first is almost always "no" and the second most definitely is a resounding "no."


I took them as rhetorical.

Simple math not requiring answers to those questions: 

Learning of a cheating spouse + my having self respect = divorce.


----------



## OutofRetirement

alte Dame said:


> Several observations:
> 
> - I think that regret comes first and shows itself as a wake-up call to the ****show that the WW has wrought. As the consequences start to dawn on the WW, regret and fear can cause a CYA reaction that many people think must be remorse. This is a selfish, self-protective reaction. Remorse, however, as I understand it, comes later (and not to all people) after the WW has taken the time to look deeply at him/herself and start to see the pain that the infidelity has caused. Experiencing the pain is to me the remorse.
> 
> I don't think that Steve's WW is anywhere near that. She's doing CYA, in my opinion.
> 
> - She has been in control this whole time: She had the A and was planning to just get on with the M. All good. Steve has been playing catch-up and is now wresting control from her. She is thus flailing, trying to do anything she can think of to recover control.
> 
> - The idea that 'grandpa' is shocking and/or ludicrous is itself a surprise to me. I think it's a biological reality that females are attracted to providers and 'good provider' can be signaled by power and wealth. Lots of old coots have young, attractive women on their arms if they have enough money or power to carry it off. The OM here appears to have both.
> 
> In general, I agree with everyone who says this is not remorse that Steve is seeing. This doesn't mean that she can't get there, though, imo.
> 
> ETA that I'm sure that Steve hits all the notes for a 'provider.' I'm just commenting on why some women will 'affair old.'


I agree with this completely.

I will add this: I think Steve turned the corner when he found out she lied about how many (probably over 50 times rather than 5), and omitted about things like taking his car to see gramps with the ezpass ticket. I believe that most times it's the lies later that kill the marriage, not the affair itself.


----------



## ABHale

drifting on said:


> ABHale
> 
> I agree with so many of your posts, understand this to be debating with the utmost of respect.
> 
> Sleeping outside his door may not be commonly heard of, but it did come after her failed dinner and sex the night before. The dinner and sex was pure cheater manipulation to fog up Steve’s mind, an attempt to show Steve what he is missing. In the betrayeds mind it works somewhat differently. The betrayed sees his wife as trying to convince them that sex will cure everything. Like as if she is now Steve’s again, it’s steves to reclaim as his own. There’s only one little problem to how Steve’s wife is thinking, Steve has had TAM members to warn him. Steve is now repulsed that she gave his special “playground” away to OM, and TAM members are saying that’s not the only “playground”.
> 
> Steve’s wife has definitely found a turning point, one that she now sees and feels quite clearly. Steve has had the strength to apply the 180 and not fall for her pitiful ploys to reel him back in. Each ploy that fails makes her next that much more pitiful. Dinner and sex would be most men’s dream to come home to, but not after infidelity. After infidelity it is simply a manipulative move by the WS. Now Steve’s wife sees that failed, so she wants to talk and comes to him, but Steve is strong and ignores her and then simply walks away. Her next move is to sleep outside his door the night after her manipulative move. Steve’s wife isn’t stupid, she knows how close she is to losing him forever, and she’s regretting her choices with OM. That is the turning point she has come to, regret, nothing more.
> 
> Earlier Steve questioned her of the condoms, she said she had no idea. She then left angrily with the daughter to go to her moms. Two days later she comes back, Steve sleeps in the spare room and she is mad at Steve. She has missed one day of work, nothing more, and has not offered to quit or find another job according to Steve’s posts. Nope, she continues forward with being with OM each and every day with the exception of once. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that they are working together, sharing time and phone calls. Remorse would be feeling Steve’s pain in knowing that each day she goes to work it kills Steve internally, that she doesn’t make Steve feel safe. When she gets to this point Steve will know, it is something Steve hasn’t seen yet and it has a look all it’s own.
> 
> Unfortunately Steve’s wife is still in self preservation mode, she is still thinking only of herself. What she has done is probably the advice of her toxic friend, cook him dinner and offer sex, Steve will be happy to just get a little piece of you and all will be fine. It sickens me to even write that, but for all we know this is who steves wife could be listening too. Steve’s wife is now going to trap him, smother him, give him no breathing room, anything to get her desired response from Steve. Pure regret, sleep outside his room so she gets HER desired response, which is, any kind of interaction with Steve.
> 
> Sorry, I only see her sleeping outside his door as selfish and manipulative, or as pure regret.


This is what is great about this site. We get along even when we don’t agree.:grin2:


I still think Steve should go through with the divorce.


----------



## inging

ScubaSteve is angry, hurt and feeling decisive. 
The sleeping outside the room is sad and pathetic. It may be manipulation or it may be an "Uh Oh" moment. We simply don't know. Whatever it is, it is a recognition by his wife of the seriousness of the situation. All credit to Steve at being able to hold it together to do the 180 so decisively which I believe has done the thing it is supposed to do. Bust her bubble. 

At this stage it is incredibly rare for a WS to have any self awareness! Steve may choose to Divorce but he needs some reality of what that means. For him and his kids. If there is a chance he can forgive, especially with a child so young, then that would be easier in so many ways.

This does not mean that she gets to gasilght Steve, it does not mean that she gets to keep her job. it does not mean that she gets anything at all. 

If there is a real chance of a genuine reconciliation and all that entails Steve can give it a shot. Don't just go by the numbers.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Whether or not she is remorseful isn’t something I’m worried about at this point. That’s furthest thing from my mind right now. I gave her a chance to show me we could work through this together and she blew it. She decided to continue lie and deceive me. We all know how that saying goes “fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me” I will not give her another chance to make me her fool again. As of now the only option I see is divorce. This marriage is done the only thing keeping it together is a piece of paper. 

Friday, I meet with two more attorneys. Both were much better than the first one I meet with Thursday. Both attorneys gave me similar advice that if my wife was open to it mediation was the way to go. It’s the fastest and less expensive way to get a divorce. I haven’t decided what to do yet, I will have to talk to my wife and see if we can figure this out without spending thousands in legal fees. My plan is to file for divorce on Wednesday. 

I haven’t talked to my friend (my boss) yet. He’s been on vacation, he doesn’t come back till Tuesday. I haven't told anything yet. I did tell him i needed to talk to when he gets back. 

My wife hasn’t real done anything this weekend. For the most part she has left me alone. She did leave couple of letters in my room. Haven’t read them and probably won’t don’t see the point. I don’t care what she has to say.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Scuba_Steve said:


> Whether or not she is remorseful isn’t something I’m worried about at this point. That’s furthest thing from my mind right now. *I gave her a chance to show me we could work through this together and she blew it. She decided to continue lie and deceive me.* We all know how that saying goes “fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me” I will not give her another chance to make me her fool again. As of now the only option I see is divorce. This marriage is done the only thing keeping it together is a piece of paper.
> 
> Friday, I meet with two more attorneys. Both were much better than the first one I meet with Thursday. Both attorneys gave me similar advice that if my wife was open to it mediation was the way to go. It’s the fastest and less expensive way to get a divorce. I haven’t decided what to do yet, I will have to talk to my wife and see if we can figure this out without spending thousands in legal fees. My plan is to file for divorce on Wednesday.
> 
> I haven’t talked to my friend (my boss) yet. He’s been on vacation, he doesn’t come back till Tuesday. I haven't told anything yet. I did tell him i needed to talk to when he gets back.
> 
> My wife hasn’t real done anything this weekend. For the most part she has left me alone. She did leave couple of letters in my room. Haven’t read them and probably won’t don’t see the point. I don’t care what she has to say.


Could you explain what you mean by the bolded part above? While I agree with the sentiment in general, which particular chance are you talking about? You have given her many chances.


----------



## Chuck71

Completely respect your decision. I would have done the same. Don't recall if I had mentioned it or 

not yet but I D my XW and didn't know if she had cheated or not. 15 years... down the crapper.

If she agrees with mediation and the terms you would want.... maybe that could lead to something YEARS

down the road. At least that would imply great co-parenting. Great co-parenting is not commonly

heard on these boards. But more than likely... she will be crap-pizzed. She doesn't have PeePaw after

MeeMaw finds out....and she lost you in the process. She will be angry at herself but attempt

to take it out.... on you. Or the daughter..... just to get to you. The custody set-up needs to be

set in place ASAP. And settle for NOTHING less than 50 / 50. If you can get more.... go after it.

On ReGroup thread... they made about the same amount of money but he was hit for CS, aftercare, etc...

Was large chump of change. Try to start out at zero CS / alimony. Maybe go after 67/33 custody.

If she wants 50 / 50 custody.... make her forfeit any CS / alimony.

Keep us posted and this will be rough.... most of us posting, have been there. Weunz is here if yas wants to

just let of steam.


----------



## Marc878

Were you able to find out how many trips she made to grandpas place in your car?


----------



## Gabriel

Man, I don't know how you don't read those letters. That takes some amazing restraint.


----------



## sokillme

Detach and hold course, you can always change your mind.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Gabriel said:


> Man, I don't know how you don't read those letters. That takes some amazing restraint.


Fear. Fear that if he gives her an opportunity she'll turn him around.


----------



## Chaparral

Did the lawyers give you any other advice besides mediation? Glad they look better than your first candidate!!!!


----------



## Chaparral

Nucking Futs said:


> Fear. Fear that if he gives her an opportunity she'll turn him around.


More like disgust. She’s radioactive now! Not to mention stupid. How stupid is it to totally destroy your family for the thrill and attention of an old and fading player? I hope you have her head examined by a professional for your daughters sake.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Glad to hear you may have gotten some good advise.
As for reading the letters maybe just more lies?
As Steve has said he gave her a chance she lied
5 times her own e-mails show more than that.
She drove his car to OM house.
Divorce can be stopped if he chooses that option.

I hope your friend can help you after you talk to
him.Om absolutely needs to be removed. Then 
do you plan on telling his wife?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> More like disgust. She’s radioactive now! Not to mention stupid. How stupid is it to totally destroy your family for the thrill and attention of an old and fading player? I hope you have her head examined by a professional for your daughters sake.


Nope. If it was disgust he wouldn't be worried about reading the letters, they'd have no chance to affect him. He's afraid to read the letters because he's afraid he won't be able to stand firm if he does. Same reason he doesn't want to talk to her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> 
> Glad to hear you may have gotten some good advise.
> *As for reading the letters maybe just more lies?*
> As Steve has said he gave her a chance she lied
> 5 times her own e-mails show more than that.
> She drove his car to OM house.
> Divorce can be stopped if he chooses that option.
> 
> I hope your friend can help you after you talk to
> him.Om absolutely needs to be removed. Then
> do you plan on telling his wife?


Or maybe the letters are a heartfelt apology and a full timeline that matches up with everything he's found independently. He won't know until he reads them.

I have never advocated for R and I'm not now, but I do advocate having as much info as possible. Divorce is an adversarial process and the more you know what your adversary is planning the better off you are. What if those letters are settlement offers? Is that likely? Probably not, but again, if someone doesn't read them we'll never know, and SS not reading them is weak in my opinion.


----------



## Evinrude58

He’s right to be disgusted or afraid. If he takes her back, we all know what would be coming down the road. But steve, it was just sex..... I stopped when I started falling for him...

It just happened, etc...

Steve is wise not to fall back into her web of lies.... zero contact and move on. Act like she was dead. 

Forgiveness is great, but it doesn’t change what she is— a liar and a cheater.


----------



## Malaise

The letters may be full of crap but they also may give him some insight into her mind.


----------



## sa58

What ever Steve decides to do is his decision and his alone.
Reading letters or ignoring them. Just as his wife made her decision
to sleep with an old man. Settlement offers in a divorce are only legal
when signed in court. I hate to disagree and I do see your point but again
WHAT STEVE DECIDES TO DO IS HIS DECISION JUST LIKE SHE MADE HERS

KARMA- She gains nothing but loses everything
sad but she made her decision on her own.


----------



## Suspicious1

Nucking Futs said:


> Or maybe the letters are a heartfelt apology and a full timeline that matches up with everything he's found independently. He won't know until he reads them.
> 
> I have never advocated for R and I'm not now, but I do advocate having as much info as possible. Divorce is an adversarial process and the more you know what your adversary is planning the better off you are. What if those letters are settlement offers? Is that likely? Probably not, but again, if someone doesn't read them we'll never know, and SS not reading them is weak in my opinion.


Not reading the letters make Steve weak?

I get you're curious about the content just like most of us, but I wouldn't say it's weakness for not wanting to hear more B.S.
I would not read them myself, not sure what I would do with them as it's great proof of who Effed up tge marrage. People tend to rewrite history do I save them for that reason.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Gabriel said:


> Man, I don't know how you don't read those letters. That takes some amazing restraint.


Same reason I never found out if my W/XW had cheated. He has a line in the sand and she crossed it.

Anything after is.... kind of useless. No fault state.... he saw what he needed to see.

He wishes to D now.... anything else would be asking for pain. Now he may keep those.... for years....

And if he ever considers a Round II.... who knows? But he also knows the GPS logistics....

as in trips to see PeePaw. And we all know what occurred on each trip.....


----------



## Nucking Futs

Suspicious1 said:


> Not reading the letters make Steve weak?


You're reversing cause and effect. Not reading the letters isn't making Steve weak, he's not reading the letters because he's afraid that he will weaken. I phrased it poorly before.



Suspicious1 said:


> I get you're curious about the content just like most of us, but I wouldn't say it's weakness for not wanting to hear more B.S.
> I would not read them myself, not sure what I would do with them as it's great proof of who Effed up tge marrage. People tend to rewrite history do I save them for that reason.
> 
> S1
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


If she's re-writing history in those letters it will piss him off and make him stronger. The only thing he has to fear from those letters is that he'll be moved by what she's saying, moved to weaken his position and consider R.


----------



## sa58

I do not think Steve is weak at all. I think the 
person who is week is his wife. She threw away
love from a good man and for what a dirty old man
She may just be realizing that and it may just be 
to late. She lied and slipped around for months.
She betrayed someone who very clearly loved and
loves her still. She gained nothing but may lose everything.

Steve's wife is the week one she has shown that time and time
again. 

Take care Steve sounds like you have a busy and hard week 
ahead. Stay strong!!


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. If divorce is your goal, you need to take the drama out of it. Revenge will not make her feel any worse if that is your goal. It sounds as if she is about as sorrowful as she is going to get. If that was your goal, you have accomplished it.

2. Now that you are determined to end the marriage, you have to go for goals relating to child care, custody, making sure your child has a good places to live, etc. You will be connected to your wife for the next 15 years or so for co-parenting, so you need to make this as painless as possible.

3. If you destroy her career income, will you have to pay alimony and child care? I would not destroy her career. You will want her to be able to provide a stable home life.

4. You should be talking to your friends in management to figure out the quietest way to do this. I would not worry about the other betrayed spouse. What is that to you? You are ending the marriage. Its not your problem any more.

5. If you are concerned about the other men that your wife will be bringing into your daughter's life, you should be having your lawyer limiting that, however if she remarries
it will be out of your control. 

6. Sorry this happened to you. She chose to risk "her little family". But you need to get over your anger once you have decided to divorce and figure out how protect your child.


----------



## stro

I’m sorry you are going through this man. I hope you are taking care of yourself. If you are resolute about divorce then I hope you can find a way to put your anger aside and learn how to successfully co parent with your wife. Don’t give an inch when it comes to custody and time spent with that little girl. She will need her daddy.


----------



## sa58

Sorry that it has come to this

You will still have to co-parent with your wife 
for a long time. Your daughter will need you.
I have no doubt you will be there for her.

You will have to work at the same company
and possibly interact with her there also

I think the goal with talking with your friend 
about Om should be to get him away from 
your wife. Limiting the chance he gets back with 
her and maybe around your daughter. And you
also.

Her career may all ready be done since she has
done this. I hope your career continues to grow.

Regardless if you divorce or R these are things 
you would have to face anyways. I am sorry as many 
are that this is the crap she has created for you.
This is one of the reasons I truly hate cheaters
male or female. Once their affair is discovered 
then and only then and sometimes never do they
truly see the turmoil and pain they have caused.

Sadly the one who is most innocent in all of this 
is your daughter. Given your wife's family
history you will probably be the one who
she needs and turns to the most.

I think you have shown great strength 
going through this with everything going on 
around you. Her affair/Grandpa/work and everything
else. I hope and pray for the best end result for you 
and your daughter.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> Whether or not she is remorseful isn’t something I’m worried about at this point. That’s furthest thing from my mind right now. I gave her a chance to show me we could work through this together and she blew it. She decided to continue lie and deceive me. We all know how that saying goes “fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me” I will not give her another chance to make me her fool again. As of now the only option I see is divorce. This marriage is done the only thing keeping it together is a piece of paper.
> 
> Friday, I meet with two more attorneys. Both were much better than the first one I meet with Thursday. Both attorneys gave me similar advice that if my wife was open to it mediation was the way to go. It’s the fastest and less expensive way to get a divorce. I haven’t decided what to do yet, I will have to talk to my wife and see if we can figure this out without spending thousands in legal fees. My plan is to file for divorce on Wednesday.
> 
> I haven’t talked to my friend (my boss) yet. He’s been on vacation, he doesn’t come back till Tuesday. I haven't told anything yet. I did tell him i needed to talk to when he gets back.
> 
> My wife hasn’t real done anything this weekend. For the most part she has left me alone. She did leave couple of letters in my room. Haven’t read them and probably won’t don’t see the point. I don’t care what she has to say.


At least be civil and return the letters unopened. Place them back into her room. Don’t lower yourself to her standards and have her guessing it you have read them. This will also help out during the divorce, might keep her from going bat **** crazy on you.


----------



## jlg07

There is ONE reason I can see to read the letters -- to use them with his boss(friend) for proof if that is required about the OM, and perhaps use them to inform the OM's wife. Other than that, Scuba is correct -- what's the use? ANYTHING in there he really can't trust in terms of how she feels about him, so....


----------



## Windwalker

Glad to hear that you found better options on the lawyer front Steve.

I stand behind you 100%. It's you decision and you know what is best.

I would definitely push for as much custody as possible and I also would let her job be, as you don't want to be paying alimony to her. The less she gets of you the better. I think she has gotten enough blood from you already.

I agree with you on the letters. There is no need to read more lies and BS. The only possible reason to read them would be if you can use them to make sure that old bastard is fired and to better yourself in the job place.

Stay strong and stay the course!
You are doing great!


----------



## sokillme

Nucking Futs said:


> Or maybe the letters are a heartfelt apology and a full timeline that matches up with everything he's found independently. He won't know until he reads them.
> 
> I have never advocated for R and I'm not now, but I do advocate having as much info as possible. Divorce is an adversarial process and the more you know what your adversary is planning the better off you are. What if those letters are settlement offers? Is that likely? Probably not, but again, if someone doesn't read them we'll never know, and SS not reading them is weak in my opinion.


Maybe he is just done. Like he doesn't care anymore because he sees she is not worth the effort.


----------



## Sports Fan

Scuba Stay Strong. Follow the advice of the Divorce Attorney you employ and stand firm. For what its worth you have done extremely well to date given the circumstances.


----------



## smi11ie

You are doing incredibly well. As long as she continues to contact this guy there is no hope. I don’t understand how she can cry about it. NC is the most important thing for reconciliation. She deserves grandpa. She will be feeding him and wiping his bottom in a few years.


----------



## Evinrude58

Steve hasn’t mentioned being vindictive or anything like that. As suggested, the ex wife working would be best, but I’d have grandpa’s ass if I could. 

He’s just numb and hurt and in grief. 

But if he is taking care of things like he says, I think that is to be admired. He can’t fix what has happened, but he can choose to accept it did, and move forward with his life and leave this in the past.


----------



## Nucking Futs

sokillme said:


> Maybe he is just done. Like he doesn't care anymore because he sees she is not worth the effort.


I don't think he is. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one seeing this, but I've got the feeling that we might be pushing him faster than we should.

Look, some of you know my opinion from my many posts on the subject. I'm the guy who says don't confront, have her served and expose to friends, family, priest/preacher/rabbi/imam, employer if a work affair, all at the same time so it's like an avalanche burying her. Maximum impact. I don't usually bother any more because most BH's don't have the testicular fortitude to even consider it. But if I had my way every BH would bring the pain out of the blue.

But it's possible to recover a marriage after infidelity. It's possible that that childs family doesn't have to be broken up. It's possible she's truly remorseful. Likely? No. But possible. But if he won't communicate with her in any way then in a few years he might be sitting there thinking "I could have saved it if I hadn't listened to those bitter bastards on TAM".

I don't think I've ever advocated for R on TAM. I'm not advocating for R now. I'm advocating for finding out what's actually going on in her head. I'm advocating for Steve to be satisfied with the outcome in the future, not regretting that he didn't slow down a hair.

I don't know, my thinking is all over the place with this one. What I'm posting here goes against my instincts. I just can't shake the feeling that we're holding his foot to the gas pedal.

Also, what is it that makes this case so much more egregious than the run of the mill workplace affair? What are the aggravating factors?


----------



## Nucking Futs

smi11ie said:


> You are doing incredibly well. As long as she continues to contact this guy there is no hope. I don’t understand how she can cry about it. NC is the most important thing for reconciliation. She deserves grandpa. She will be feeding him and wiping his bottom in a few years.


Did Steve ever tell her she needed to go no-contact with gramps? Did I miss that?


----------



## stro

Nucking Futs said:


> smi11ie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are doing incredibly well. As long as she continues to contact this guy there is no hope. I don’t understand how she can cry about it. NC is the most important thing for reconciliation. She deserves grandpa. She will be feeding him and wiping his bottom in a few years.
> 
> 
> 
> Did Steve ever tell her she needed to go no-contact with gramps? Did I miss that?
Click to expand...

without re reading the whole thread, I don’t think Grandpa no contact has been addressed. Kinda hard to at this point considering her working situation. Speaking of which, I can’t imagine how anxious she must be every day at work waiting for the Steve to blow it all up. Probably one of the reasons she desperately wants Steve to talk to her. She needs to know what’s coming.


----------



## Gabriel

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't think I've ever advocated for R on TAM. I'm not advocating for R now. I'm advocating for finding out what's actually going on in her head. I'm advocating for Steve to be satisfied with the outcome in the future, not regretting that he didn't slow down a hair.
> 
> I don't know, my thinking is all over the place with this one. What I'm posting here goes against my instincts. I just can't shake the feeling that we're holding his foot to the gas pedal.
> 
> Also, what is it that makes this case so much more egregious than the run of the mill workplace affair? What are the aggravating factors?


100% agree with this whole thing. Sometimes TAMers want an immediate and satisfying result, partly to sate our own hunger for justice. 

I'm all over the place here too, but this was a pretty egregious offense by the wife. He might be done. Still, I'd want to read what she wrote, let her get completely vulnerable and humble to the point of full submission before I made any decisions.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> Did Steve ever tell her she needed to go no-contact with gramps? Did I miss that?


He’s not insisted on a number of things that are considered necessary for reconciliation.

_Because he doesn’t *want* to reconcile._

He’s stated that over and over and over.

Not sure why you guys don’t believe him.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

My take on this was Steve would have considered reconciliation if she was open and honest so he gave her a chance to do it. 

She blew it. Plain an simple.

No one here goaded Steve towards divorce. He leaned that way to start with. If anything he listened to the posters here suggesting he give her a chance to come clean. 

He gave her a chance. One chance. She lied.

So rather than go down the rabbit hole of a life time of trickle truths he is pulling the plug. Can't say I blame him.


----------



## BluesPower

*This post by BIB is totally correct...*



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> My take on this was Steve would have considered reconciliation if she was open and honest so he gave her a chance to do it.
> 
> She blew it. Plain an simple.
> 
> No one here goaded Steve towards divorce. He leaned that way to start with. If anything he listened to the posters here suggesting he give her a chance to come clean.
> 
> He gave her a chance. One chance. She lied.
> 
> So rather than go down the rabbit hole of a life time of trickle truths he is pulling the plug. Can't say I blame him.


This post by BIB is totally correct...

Steve may have given her a chance and he did. She took that poly and lied. That was the last straw. Now Steve may or may not have moved fast enough in the beginning, -- debatable. But he is moving fast now. 

Steve made his decision, he thought it over, he gave her a chance, AND SHE BLEW IT.

So GUYS, let's look at why she lied.... bottom line, she thought Steve was a p**** that would just lay down and take this crap from her. Well guess what, he is not. He is a man, like we all should have been, that got his balls back and it taking what is his back.... HIS LIFE. 

And I would just like everyone to think for a second about how HUGE her betrayal. This is not a ONS, with some guys she met at a bar. You might be able to forgive that... This is not some short affair with a soccer dad down that street that put some good moves on her and because he was hot, she gave into the need for a little strange. Not sure I could forgive that, but even that would vary among different men. 

No, she was having an affair with an upper level boss either sleeping herself to the top or just fell for the old fart. She had an affair in the workplace where he works, where he knows the Owner of the company. Everyone at work, save him, knew she has been screwing around on him. She was probably giving him lunchtime BJ's in his office with the blinds closed. 

There is no way for Steve to ever be able to hold his head high again unless he scorches the earth with her and her OM. 

I just really think that we should stop second guessing Steve in anyway. I think we should encourage him to get his balls back...


----------



## Chaparral

Looks like it was a deal breaker from the get go. A lot of us simply refuse to take seconds. When he confronted her with the condoms she panicked and tried to bluff her way out.

Steve says she is a beauty. Old man played her. The better looking a woman is and the more people they run into in daily life makes them high risk for cheating. I will not be surprised if the old dude isn’t willing to drop his wife for a young attractive woman. He could still end up being Steve’s daughter’s step dad. I would rip his world apart with every ounce of my being with no holds barred. That might even make me look more kindly towards reconcilliation. Who knows?


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Have your attorney read the letters and make a copy for you to give to your boss if it admits the affair and with whom. Your attorney can give you a watered down version if you want to know what they are about. But leaving them unopened in my opinion is not the best answer.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

There was no poly. He asked for a timeline with very specific instructions and he gave her plenty of time, like a day or two to complete. Plenty of time to be honest, contrite, forthright, etc. 

She lied. 

And yes, Steve's words were 'humiliated and emasculated'. At the workplace. The senior citizen OM, is not a famous painter or famous poet. Not a famous musician or a hot actor. Not a handsome local bad boy or pleasant soccer daddy. 

He is simply a senior director where they all work. Someone who has a lot to say on how her career progresses.

Humiliated is to say the least. Every time Steve pulls into that parking lot imagine the images in his mind.

If she had not lied maybe start over with Steve and wife working somewhat else. 

But no. Her response to why him is "I don't know". Well Steve and everyone else here knows why. 

Who wants to stay married to that? 

Steve is in his early thirties. Plenty of time to start fresh with someone whose idea of marriage does not include sleeping with the boss where her husband works. Among other things.


----------



## Nucking Futs

*Re: This post by BIB is totally correct...*



BluesPower said:


> This post by BIB is totally correct...
> 
> Steve may have given her a chance and he did. *She took that poly and lied.* That was the last straw. Now Steve may or may not have moved fast enough in the beginning, -- debatable. But he is moving fast now.
> 
> Steve made his decision, he thought it over, he gave her a chance, AND SHE BLEW IT.
> 
> So GUYS, let's look at why she lied.... bottom line, she thought Steve was a p**** that would just lay down and take this crap from her. Well guess what, he is not. He is a man, like we all should have been, that got his balls back and it taking what is his back.... HIS LIFE.
> 
> And I would just like everyone to think for a second about how HUGE her betrayal. This is not a ONS, with some guys she met at a bar. You might be able to forgive that... This is not some short affair with a soccer dad down that street that put some good moves on her and because he was hot, she gave into the need for a little strange. Not sure I could forgive that, but even that would vary among different men.
> 
> No, she was having an affair with an upper level boss either sleeping herself to the top or just fell for the old fart. She had an affair in the workplace where he works, where he knows the Owner of the company. Everyone at work, save him, knew she has been screwing around on him. She was probably giving him lunchtime BJ's in his office with the blinds closed.
> 
> There is no way for Steve to ever be able to hold his head high again unless he scorches the earth with her and her OM.
> 
> I just really think that we should stop second guessing Steve in anyway. I think we should encourage him to get his balls back...


She failed a poly? When did that happen?


----------



## drifting on

jlg07 said:


> There is ONE reason I can see to read the letters -- to use them with his boss(friend) for proof if that is required about the OM, and perhaps use them to inform the OM's wife. Other than that, Scuba is correct -- what's the use? ANYTHING in there he really can't trust in terms of how she feels about him, so....





Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> There was no poly. He asked for a timeline with very specific instructions and he gave her plenty of time, like a day or two to complete. Plenty of time to be honest, contrite, forthright, etc.
> 
> She lied.
> 
> And yes, Steve's words were 'humiliated and emasculated'. At the workplace. The senior citizen OM, is not a famous painter or famous poet. Not a famous musician or a hot actor. Not a handsome local bad boy or pleasant soccer daddy.
> 
> He is simply a senior director where they all work. Someone who has a lot to say on how her career progresses.
> 
> Humiliated is to say the least. Every time Steve pulls into that parking lot imagine the images in his mind.
> 
> If she had not lied maybe start over with Steve and wife working somewhat else.
> 
> But no. Her response to why him is "I don't know". Well Steve and everyone else here knows why.
> 
> Who wants to stay married to that?
> 
> Steve is in his early thirties. Plenty of time to start fresh with someone whose idea of marriage does not include sleeping with the boss where her husband works. Among other things.





Pulling in to that parking space was very difficult to do, when a couple works for the same company and one has an affair. The humiliation and emasculation were on steroids so to speak. I walked with my head down for well over a year it was so bad. It wasn’t until I got to a much healthier position that I shouldn’t be ashamed, but it takes time. I can understand why scuba says no reconciliation, he may be seeing many things about her that we can’t.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Pulling in to that parking space was very difficult to do, when a couple works for the same company and one has an affair. The humiliation and emasculation were on steroids so to speak. I walked with my head down for well over a year it was so bad. It wasn’t until I got to a much healthier position that I shouldn’t be ashamed, but it takes time. I can understand why scuba says no reconciliation, he may be seeing many things about her that we can’t.


Man you worked at the same place as your wife's affair? As if it couldn't get any worse. I don't know how you do it.

I am confused about Steve, his wife works for the same company as he does with the friends father and all? So then he won't sue I guess.


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> Man you worked at the same place as your wife's affair? As if it couldn't get any worse. I don't know how you do it.
> 
> I am confused about Steve, his wife works for the same company as he does with the friends father and all? So then he won't sue I guess.





Sokillme 

Yeah, same company, different areas, but that really doesn’t help much when you have to go there often. I used to think, did he know, did she know, why didn’t they say something? It can be brutal, especially in the beginning, then you come to the realization you did nothing wrong, who cares what they think, I do what I do that’s best for me, period. Scuba will come to this point, as far as work goes, but it does take time.


----------



## sa58

The one letter that she could give Steve
is a signed letter of resignation from her job!!

She could simply tell him that she made the biggest
dumbest mistake of her life. She could tell him if he 
is willing to give her second chance she will quit!! ( she will not do this)
That to me would be a sign of regret and maybe remorse.
She would be giving up something that means a lot to her 
for a chance with him. So far what has she done.
One day off from work!!
Half a day off to try food and sex !!
Begging and pleading and sleeping on a floor. !!

As for Steve talking to her I think she can talk to
She could start (maybe has) the conversation off 
by being honest and saying how she screwed up.
If Steve was in their home office she could simply 
walk in close the door and start talking. Not begging
honestly talking. Steve might listen.

I earlier posted a list of questions I would ask her.
If she answered them truthfully then things might 
change. I think earlier when she told Steve 5 times
he wanted to believe her. He found out (her e-mails)
that was a lie. He has since then found out she drove
his car to OM house. True sign of disrespect or maybe 
did't want her care seen there.

Even in Steve's last post he said he sees divorce 
as his only option. I think that is the only one she
has given him so far by lies and covering up. I do not think
Steve wants all of the details just the truth and the feeling
that maybe he could someday trust her again. What would 
happen if she stayed at her job and took another trip with Om
or someone else. I hope if they divorce she keeps her job thou.
The same job she has now FOR EVER, EVER. I hope Steve
nukes the old mans job and married life as well

Again the letter that she needs to give Steve is a signed letter
of resignation and to show him she is willing to lose something
of importance to stay married. I think divorce is the only option 
SHE HAS GIVEN STEVE SO FAR by her own actions.
What other actions has she shown?


----------



## VermiciousKnid

Scuba_Steve said:


> If didn’t know better I would think she was truly remorseful.


She might be.


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> He’s not insisted on a number of things that are considered necessary for reconciliation.
> 
> _Because he doesn’t *want* to reconcile._
> 
> He’s stated that over and over and over.
> 
> Not sure why you guys don’t believe him.


I don't believe this for a second, Gus.

I believe he wants to reconcile. I just think his hurt is talking at this point.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: This post by BIB is totally correct...*



Nucking Futs said:


> She failed a poly? When did that happen?


I would like to know the same thing.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Sokillme
> 
> Yeah, same company, different areas, but that really doesn’t help much when you have to go there often. I used to think, did he know, did she know, why didn’t they say something? It can be brutal, especially in the beginning, then you come to the realization you did nothing wrong, who cares what they think, I do what I do that’s best for me, period. Scuba will come to this point, as far as work goes, but it does take time.


Man this is the difference between me and others. I would never have any doubt that I did anything wrong or I wasn't good enough. What I would be thinking is how can I stay here an work with such duplicitous *******s. But that is why I wouldn't stay married either. How could I look at someone who could do that to me let alone the normal day to day sacrifice it takes to be in a marriage. Gross.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

If she were 'truly remorseful' she would not lie while apologizing about lying and cheating. 

When someone shows you who they truly are believe them. She has through her actions and words shown who she truly is. Why should Steve waste more time waiting for her to be honest? 

What can those 2 letters possibly say? I am sorry about lying when I apologized about lying? 

When does that ever end? It never ends actually. 

Who needs that?


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> Man this is the difference between me and others. I would never have any doubt that I did anything wrong or I wasn't good enough. What I would be thinking is how can I stay here an work with such duplicitous *******s. But that is why I wouldn't stay married either. How could I look at someone who could do that to me let alone the normal day to day sacrifice it takes to be in a marriage. Gross.






I’m not perfect, our marriage was anything but perfect, I too brought toxic items to the marriage. Not on the level of cheating, but I needed to own my toxic items too, and that goes for reconciliation or divorce. If you don’t own your own crap so to speak, reconciliation won’t work, divorce and not owning your crap you will carry into your next relationship. Either way I had to make drastic changes in myself, I had to become healthy. I freely admit I triggered reading scuba’s story, it was very similar to what I went through, and I would like nothing more then to see the betrayed come out with the best possible outcome. I also want to see the wayward suffer, consequences, as long as it’s not abuse, I think almost every betrayed feels this way at some point. 

Over four years out and the work I did to get healthy, I’m a far better person now. I’ve learned some over the last four years, my wife has, and we apply what we learned to be better. We take that same attitude with our marriage, we communicate, we make sacrifices for each other, and we enjoy being mom and dad. We each do special things for the boys, we are involved in their lives as heavily as we are our marriage. We have both become better people, and that stemmed from the remorse my wife showed, the hard work that she put in to change her entire being. 

Four years ago I would never have said that I’m lucky my wife showed remorse and did the hard work, but I would say that today. What any wayward does in infidelity is gross, despicable, destructive and a whole bunch of other things, it’s how they respond with actions followed by their words is what’s important. You watch their actions to see if they match the words, you watch to see if they grow as a person while becoming a better person. I’ve seen several here that have changed and worked on themselves tirelessly to become healthier. Sadly I don’t include scuba’s wife to this list and feel his best choice is divorce. That doesn’t mean I wish for his wife to suffer, I hope that for her own sake she becomes healthier to be a better person and mother.


----------



## smi11ie

Steve is probably thinking “if she would chose a pensioner over me then she would chose anyone over me”. It’s rather humiliating for him. Her grovelling might be sincere. She has lied to him since discovery. I am split on this one. I believe strongly in reconciliation but only if the wayward has the right reaction after d day. I hope Grandpa gets to face some consequences too. I can’t abide those who mess around with married people. It shows a real lack of character.


----------



## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> I don't believe this for a second, Gus.
> 
> I believe he wants to reconcile. I just think his hurt is talking at this point.


I always try and offer support either way a poster goes. If not... why even post? They're down and out

already. I guess because I have never been in a true R.... so WTH do I know?

I expect a lot from others because I expect that from myself. But the fact things will really never be the same.....

would scare the @$$%% out of me, if I ever had to decide on one.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> I don't believe this for a second, Gus.
> 
> I believe he wants to reconcile. I just think his hurt is talking at this point.


His actions say otherwise; for example, a BH at all inclined to reconcile would’ve read those letters. He’d have also banged his WW 7 ways to Sunday when she started offering sex. He’d have insisted on at least _some_ kind of transparency, along with a list of other meaningful gestures by which she could demonstrate her willingness to fix the mess she’s created.

If not for the lies and defiant, faux self-righteous indignation upon being confronted, he might have felt differently.

And if not for her hilarious attempts at rugsweeping, he might have been willing.

Seriously, it’s like you guys found TAM yesterday — a WW starts snotting up and sleeping on the floor and y’all go gaga.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chuck71 said:


> I always try and offer support either way a poster goes. If not... why even post? They're down and out
> 
> already. I guess because I have never been in a true R.... so WTH do I know?
> 
> I expect a lot from others because I expect that from myself. But the fact things will really never be the same.....
> 
> would scare the @$$%% out of me, if I ever had to decide on one.


Not sure how I’ve never asked this before, but what’s up with the spacing and extra line breaks?


----------



## Evinrude58

LEt's be realistic. Let's say Steve really did want to reconcile and his wife actually took some action (quitting job would be a good one), got some counseling, provided a complete freaking account of her betrayal without being asked, etc. etc.

I know at one time I'd have liked to have reconciled with my wife.... NOT after getting to 50k feet and seeing her as she actually is. Even though I may trigger and hope bad things for the cheater, I wouldn't advise a spouse to divorce if I thought there were mitigating circumstances and there was a chance the cheater had at least some character.

But, what was the mitigating circumstance here with this wayward? 
What about this situation gives anyone the idea that she would be a safe spouse in the future?

She has shown me every reason to believe she is a deceitful cheater of overall low character. Even faced with the obvious case that she was busted--- she still couldn't see this man's pain in his eyes and have a conscience that compelled her to come clean and accept whatever Steve decided.

I really believe in 99% of cases, it's best to just divorce a cheater. There was clearly a problem with the marriage, or the person, that caused them to betray their spouse in the worst way possible. In this case, she kept on until I believe she was dumped. When she was dumped, I believe she took it out on Steve. She STILL couldn't see what a horrible thing she had done.

One of the most damning statements of hers that sticks with me is that "she stopped when she felt she might be falling for him"..... Huh? WTF???? I would be floored by that statement. So she couldn't even say that she got close to the guy and didn't have boundaries and it developed into a relationship and that she just kinda got sucked in.....
Apparently she just wanted some new ****, wrinkled or not, and as long as she didn't "fall for the guy", it wasn't so bad. That shows a total lack of character/incompatibility of character to me. That's really awful what she said.

I don't care what she does now, I don't think she is marriage material. I totally support SS in divorcing this woman. He can do better. HE SHOULD do better. 

What Steve decides is totally up to him. Would I tell him to give her another chance? NOPE. 

We can wish she'd do x,y, z and show Steve some remorse. She HASN'T done anything but try to keep her own ass from being thrown out at this point. She had many opportunities to show SS some respect and love and loyalty before HE found out. She hasn't been forthcoming or truthful about anything. She's a liar. A really bad liar. He should find someone that at least appears to have trouble with lies....

I have no problem with his attitude. I wish I was more like him, personally.


----------



## sa58

I 100% agree with you Evinrude58 she has done nothing
to prove she is trustworthy only to save herself.

NOTHING!! She has given Steve only one option!


----------



## Chuck71

GusPolinski said:


> Not sure how I’ve never asked this before, but what’s up with the spacing and extra line breaks?


I'm an author and free lance writer.... force of habit. Maybe I type it, the way I would be saying it.


----------



## Chuck71

GusPolinski said:


> His actions say otherwise; for example, a BH at all inclined to reconcile would’ve read those letters. He’d have also banged his WW 7 ways to Sunday when she started offering sex. He’d have also insisted on at least some kind of transparency or some other meaningful gesture to in order for her demonstrate her willingness to fix the mess she’s created.
> 
> If not for the lies and defiant, faux self-righteous indignation upon being confronted, he might have felt differently.
> 
> And if not for her hilarious attempts at rugsweeping, he might have been willing.
> 
> Seriously, it’s like you guys found TAM yesterday — a WW starts snotting up and sleeping on the floor and y’all go gaga.


I hope he doesn't... but I will offer support either way. Why do I hope he doesn't consider R?

I can't see myself doing it. You can't love without trust, you can but... it is a very unhealthy, soul destroying love.

As I posted earlier, for me to even remotely consider a R, I would still D her. She would have to

give up my last name, the perks of being my W/XW/WTFE, receive zero CS or alimony.

If she wants it bad enough.... Course that would be forced remorse, but she would have to

"want it" to accept it. Then.... maybe yearS down the road, maybe remarry.


----------



## sidney2718

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't think he is. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one seeing this, but I've got the feeling that we might be pushing him faster than we should.
> 
> Look, some of you know my opinion from my many posts on the subject. I'm the guy who says don't confront, have her served and expose to friends, family, priest/preacher/rabbi/imam, employer if a work affair, all at the same time so it's like an avalanche burying her. Maximum impact. I don't usually bother any more because most BH's don't have the testicular fortitude to even consider it. But if I had my way every BH would bring the pain out of the blue.
> 
> But it's possible to recover a marriage after infidelity. It's possible that that childs family doesn't have to be broken up. It's possible she's truly remorseful. Likely? No. But possible. But if he won't communicate with her in any way then in a few years he might be sitting there thinking "I could have saved it if I hadn't listened to those bitter bastards on TAM".
> 
> I don't think I've ever advocated for R on TAM. I'm not advocating for R now. I'm advocating for finding out what's actually going on in her head. I'm advocating for Steve to be satisfied with the outcome in the future, not regretting that he didn't slow down a hair.
> 
> I don't know, my thinking is all over the place with this one. What I'm posting here goes against my instincts. I just can't shake the feeling that we're holding his foot to the gas pedal.
> 
> Also, what is it that makes this case so much more egregious than the run of the mill workplace affair? What are the aggravating factors?


I think that Nucking is right. What the OP needs to do is what is right for him AND his daughter. His WW will be in the picture for years to come and he needs, for his daughter's sake, to be able to deal with his WW as a grownup.

That means being able to talk to her, no matter how nutzo she may be or how much he may hate doing it. Simply blowing up the mother's world because he can will have an impact on his child. Spreading the word about her infidelity far and wide will also do him no good but will do his child harm.

A spouse being unfaithful is NOT a reason to drag that spouse through the mud, ruin (in this case) her life, and force her into a horrible situation. In this case our OP has got to be the adult here. He's got to read his WW's letters and pay attention to her situation---or I should say, his daughter's situation.

There is almost no chance that the divorce will give him sole custody of their child with his WW not even having visitation rights. And he'll still be on the hook for support money for the child.

That's the reality of it. Unloading on "grandpa" or serving the wife with divorce papers while at work might seem to be good revenge, but what will they actually do to his position, and worse, that of their child.

We need to be encouraging him not only to get his life in order, but to act like an adult in a situation where nobody can come out the winner, but the pain for the daughter might be made much better.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously, it’s like you guys found TAM yesterday — a WW starts snotting up and sleeping on the floor and* y’all go gaga*.


I take extreme exception to this Gus. I have never been or ever will be Gaga. 

I'm a Jennifer Lopez fan.


----------



## MyRevelation

sidney2718 said:


> I think that Nucking is right. What the OP needs to do is what is right for him AND his daughter. His WW will be in the picture for years to come and he needs, for his daughter's sake, to be able to deal with his WW as a grownup.
> 
> That means being able to talk to her, no matter how nutzo she may be or how much he may hate doing it. Simply blowing up the mother's world because he can will have an impact on his child. Spreading the word about her infidelity far and wide will also do him no good but will do his child harm.
> 
> A spouse being unfaithful is NOT a reason to drag that spouse through the mud, ruin (in this case) her life, and force her into a horrible situation. In this case our OP has got to be the adult here. He's got to read his WW's letters and pay attention to her situation---or I should say, his daughter's situation.
> 
> There is almost no chance that the divorce will give him sole custody of their child with his WW not even having visitation rights. And he'll still be on the hook for support money for the child.
> 
> That's the reality of it. Unloading on "grandpa" or serving the wife with divorce papers while at work might seem to be good revenge, but what will they actually do to his position, and worse, that of their child.
> 
> We need to be encouraging him not only to get his life in order, but to act like an adult in a situation where nobody can come out the winner, but the pain for the daughter might be made much better.


My mileage varied quite a bit from the above. 

IMHO, when I see posts about protecting the children of D ... mine and my children's personal experiences run more along the lines of "I'd rather my children be from a broken home than to live in one". After our D, my XW and I went basically NC ... we didn't co-parent. I provided an example of one way to live life and my XW provided an example of how to do the opposite. Both children came to live with me when old enough to make that decision and are now 38 and 33 with successful families of their own. They were given two examples to follow and as they say in the movies ... "They chose wisely". 

In this particular case, SS owes a debt of loyalty to his friend/boss and his father, who got him the job originally, and SS is wisely waiting to speak with his friend/boss before taking actions that could have wide ranging effects. However, if it wasn't for this loyalty to friend/boss, I'd be advising him to go complete scorched earth on WW and OM. I'd have my attorney meet with the company's attorney and lay out the sexual harassment and breach of any morality clauses in the company's policies to exact a nice settlement that would likely leave WW and OM unemployed.

However, given the loyalty to friend/boss, I'd probably work with him and his father to hold off on taking action against WW and OM until AFTER the property settlement / custody agreements have been finalized in exchange for holding the company harmless. If played right, SS could leverage exposure to get a favorable settlement, and then still get his revenge, albeit somewhat delayed, but well savored.


----------



## badmemory

bandit.45 said:


> i take extreme exception to this gus. I have never been or ever will be gaga.
> 
> I'm a jennifer lopez fan.











"Hi ho, hi ho, it's off topic we will go, we're off the rails it never fails, hi ho, hi ho."


----------



## skerzoid

Okay:

1. We need to get over the age of the OM. I myself am a sexy grandpa. I taught at a treatment center for the emotionally disturbed for the last 7 years. I carried a radio on my belt, I had a guard in my room, I had to restrain Crips, Bloods, MS 13 gangsters, Drug cartel's Mules and those were just the GIRLS! The boys were worse. Murderers, thieves, rapists, child molesters. I had to take 6'4" Children to the floor AT LEAST once a week. I got their respect by being tough and never backing down. 

2. Now, why do I tell you this? Because, even in my old age, I had to resist temptations from co-workers who admired me, I even had a lesbian guard tell me I was the only man she would cross over for. But, women have all sorts of emotional reasons for cheating not the least of which are daddy issues and father figures. The real sex rank is status, wealth, power. Why do porn stars sleep with Trump? I've seen some ugly a$$ rockstars with some pretty good looking' groupies. Happens EVERY day. Harvey Weinstein is one of the ugliest men I've ever seen and he got more wussy than any of us can think about. 

3. Cheating is cheating, and people have all sorts of fetishes and weird stuff going' on, so the real issue here isn't Grandpa, its her valuing someone over Steve in importance, causing humiliation, emasculation, betrayal of trust, lack of morals, & betrayal of her child. 

4. Now, Steve will have to be the one to determine his course, he has a child to worry about, he has a broken heart, a job, and crappy NY divorce laws to deal with. Whatever his choice, divorce or reconciliation, be supportive, help him be courageous, decisive, and strong.


----------



## Chaparral

GusPolinski said:


> Not sure how I’ve never asked this before, but what’s up with the spacing and extra line breaks?


Little keyboards and auto correct


----------



## Chaparral

Frankly, she’s acting like about every other wayward I see here that doesn’t want a divorce. They never come clean right off the bat. They’re in damage control. They don’t come clean till you hold their feet to the fire.


----------



## colingrant

_One of the most damning statements of hers that sticks with me is that "she stopped when she felt she might be falling for him"..... Huh? WTF???? I would be floored by that statement. So she couldn't even say that she got close to the guy and didn't have boundaries and it developed into a relationship and that she just kinda got sucked in.....
Apparently she just wanted some new ****, wrinkled or not, and as long as she didn't "fall for the guy", it wasn't so bad. That shows a total lack of character/incompatibility of character to me. That's really awful what she said._


agree. The severity of that one statement is equivalent to someone shooting another and saying, I didn't mean to kill him, only hurt him. I'm not sure she even realized how incriminating it was. It was a conclusive admission, but also revealed that the her misdeed wasn't the sex, but falling for who she was having sex with. Or another way to put it, the sex isn't wrong, falling in love was. Huh??????/


----------



## Chuck71

Chaparral said:


> Little keyboards and auto correct


Nah..... I took a notion..... and don'd it.


----------



## sokillme

sidney2718 said:


> I think that Nucking is right. What the OP needs to do is what is right for him AND his daughter. His WW will be in the picture for years to come and he needs, for his daughter's sake, to be able to deal with his WW as a grownup.
> 
> That means being able to talk to her, no matter how nutzo she may be or how much he may hate doing it. Simply blowing up the mother's world because he can will have an impact on his child. Spreading the word about her infidelity far and wide will also do him no good but will do his child harm.
> 
> A spouse being unfaithful is NOT a reason to drag that spouse through the mud, ruin (in this case) her life, and force her into a horrible situation. In this case our OP has got to be the adult here. He's got to read his WW's letters and pay attention to her situation---or I should say, his daughter's situation.
> 
> There is almost no chance that the divorce will give him sole custody of their child with his WW not even having visitation rights. And he'll still be on the hook for support money for the child.
> 
> That's the reality of it. Unloading on "grandpa" or serving the wife with divorce papers while at work might seem to be good revenge, but what will they actually do to his position, and worse, that of their child.
> 
> We need to be encouraging him not only to get his life in order, but to act like an adult in a situation where nobody can come out the winner, but the pain for the daughter might be made much better.


He is really not required morally to do anything for her, she fired him. He is within his rights to never talk to her again if he wants. But it IS true that he still has to deal with her as the mother of his child. Though that can be done through an intermediary if he wants. I think it's better if they can get to some detente for the kids sake. But this can be handled like a business partnership. 

I don't think he needs to spread her infidelity around but I don't think he needs to protect her either. I say if people ask tell the truth and if you are generally open with your friends and family no reason to change it. Live an authentic life, this is actually an antidote to the other parent who lives their life as a phony. Let his daughter see which life seems better. Now that is age appropriate of course. I knew pretty young about my Dad's cheating. I think it actually set me up to not cheat in my life. So it was a very GOOD thing. 

I am also not a big fan of scorched earth is your intention is to move on or not, though sometimes it is useful to wake them up to reality. I do think you will have a much better chance of moving on quickly if you try to detach any emotional attachment. You are not doing that if you go out of your way to make them feel pain. It only plays into their brokenness most times anyway. I say take the high road, don't cover for them but just ride on into the sunset. The faster you do that the faster the pain goes away and you can move on to something better.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

She f'ed with his professional life. Correct me of I am wrong bit I think he worked there before she did. 

Whatever he chooses to do is fair game. Scorched earth or otherwise.


----------



## Chaparral

I don’t see going scorched earth on her, she’s losing her family including half the time with her daughter. Scuba said she has tanked her career. He hasn’t really given us much to go n regarding her actions and I’m guessing he knows a lot more than he has shared.

Regarding the Posom, well, payback is supposed to be hell. I’m
betting he is pretty good at playing women and I will bet his wife knows it. I would guess he broke her down on one or more business trips with a lot of drinking involved. After that she became addicted to the thrill of it all. I would also guess her saying she broke it off because she was falling for him was BS and just trying to deflect. But then I was wrong once before. Lol

My biggest concern is who his friend and father will side with. Hopefully they are much more honorable than their other friend the Posom. After all, birds of a feather.......


----------



## re16

Mrs. Scuba fits into the standard wayward workplace affair.

Full PA with a coworker.
Denial
Trickle Truth
Throw her body at him to try to woo him back.
Snot bubbling.
More trickle.

C'mon, he'll never be able to trust her again. He'll never stop the mind movies. Hec - she hasn't even admitted everything yet (like all the trips to OM's house in New Jersey in Steve's new ride).

I don't know why everyone is trying to encourage R. Continuing this marriage would be a nightmare. Steve is right, he needs to move on. Believe what he is telling us.


----------



## Nucking Futs

re16 said:


> Mrs. Scuba fits into the standard wayward workplace affair.
> 
> Full PA with a coworker.
> Denial
> Trickle Truth
> Throw her body at him to try to woo him back.
> Snot bubbling.
> More trickle.
> 
> C'mon, he'll never be able to trust her again. He'll never stop the mind movies. *Hec - she hasn't even admitted everything yet (like all the trips to OM's house in New Jersey in Steve's new ride).*


Maybe she has. No telling what's in those letters.



re16 said:


> *I don't why everyone is trying to encourage R.* Continuing this marriage would be a nightmare. Steve is right, he needs to move on. Believe what he is telling us.


No one is encouraging him to R. I won't speak for everyone else but what I've been addressing today is my perception that we're pushing Steve to go faster than he's ready for. 

I have a perception that in this thread we're pushing an agenda rather than offering support.


----------



## Malaise

Nucking Futs said:


> Maybe she has. No telling what's in those letters.


I'd hate to have him come across the unread letters a year from now, read them, and regret not reading them now.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Malaise said:


> I'd hate to have him come across the unread letters a year from now, read them, and regret not reading them now.


Agreed - read the letters. You want to go forward with as much information as possible. If she blameshifts or is not remorseful in the letters then you have more to go on but if she is well then you can base your next moves on that. Either way you want as much information as possible.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

manfromlamancha said:


> Could you explain what you mean by the bolded part above? While I agree with the sentiment in general, which particular chance are you talking about? You have given her many chances.


There was a period of week where I did not know what to do. During that time gave her a chance to maker her case. Gave her the time to talk to me, show me and convince me we could make this work. I was open to salvaging this marriage, she chose to lie. What more of a chance does she want. Me on my hands and knees begging, cause thats now not happening.


----------



## sa58

I would just divorce her take a few months
at the gym getting in shape then date all of 
her single friends. That is enough revenge!!


----------



## Truthseeker1

Scuba_Steve said:


> There was a period of week where I did not know what to do. During that time gave her a chance to maker her case. Gave her the time to talk to me, show me and convince me we could make this work. I was open to salvaging this marriage, she chose to lie. What more of a chance does she want. Me on my hands and knees begging, cause thats now not happening.


What have you been doing to help you Steve? Have you sought out an IC? Read books? Exercise? Change in diet? Either R or D you are going to have to heal you. Remember to take care of yourself.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Nucking Futs said:


> Fear. Fear that if he gives her an opportunity she'll turn him around.



I want to say no but you could be right. I might be scared of being pulled into trying to reconcile again. I see the best way to prevent anything like that from happening is to devoid the whole situation of emotion and handle this as any other business transition. The only thing that matter are the facts and numbers.


----------



## Marc878

Steve,

Did you ever find out how many trips she was making to hook up with her other man?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Do you have any type of support around you
Family Friends Ic that you can talk to during 
and after this?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Marc878 said:


> Were you able to find out how many trips she made to grandpas place in your car?


I know she’s taken at least one trip to Jersey, I can’t confirm it was to visit the OM but its most likely the case.

She also drove the car during the valentine’s week. I was out of town, I don’t know what she did awhile I was gone.

I plan to take the car back to the dealer no way in hell I’m ever going to drive that car again.

All of this set me off, she was the one complaining about the car when I bought the car but yet she drove the car more the me.


----------



## 3putt

Scuba_Steve said:


> All of this set me off, she was the one complaining about the car when I bought the car but yet she drove the car more the me.


And then top it off with the purpose of driving the car. Yeah, that would pretty much send me into orbit as well.


----------



## Betrayedone

GusPolinski said:


> His actions say otherwise; for example, a BH at all inclined to reconcile would’ve read those letters. He’d have also banged his WW 7 ways to Sunday when she started offering sex. He’d have insisted on at least _some_ kind of transparency, along with a list of other meaningful gestures by which she could demonstrate her willingness to fix the mess she’s created.
> 
> If not for the lies and defiant, faux self-righteous indignation upon being confronted, he might have felt differently.
> 
> And if not for her hilarious attempts at rugsweeping, he might have been willing.
> 
> Seriously, it’s like you guys found TAM yesterday — a WW starts snotting up and sleeping on the floor and y’all go gaga.


You tell 'em Gus......The voice of truth.....


----------



## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed - read the letters. You want to go forward with as much information as possible. If she blameshifts or is not remorseful in the letters then you have more to go on but if she is well then you can base your next moves on that. Either way you want as much information as possible.


It’s just a bunch of “I’m sorry I’ll never do it again you’re my soulmate and you mean so much to me blah blah blah” horse****.

On the other hand, there may be something in there that he can use in the divorce. If, for example, she admits to the affair (and hey, maybe she’s admitted to other affairs as well), that might help him.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Gus is spot-on, once again. There might also be some lies in there that contradict the things you already know. If you post the content of the letters here, you'll have a thousand eyes to help you read between the lines.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> I want to say no but you could be right. I might be scared of being pulled into trying to reconcile again. I see the best way to prevent anything like that from happening is to devoid the whole situation of emotion and handle this as any other business transition. The only thing that matter are the facts and numbers.


That's what my gut has been telling me. Look, I'm not pro R by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think I've ever suggested R, I think infidelity should be an automatic end to a marriage. But I'm not here to push that opinion, I'm here for support. Usually when someone decides to R I drop off the thread, it's not something I believe in and I don't feel I can support a poster in it. But I do believe in no regrets, and I think if you don't explore all your options you'll have regrets in the future.

In a business transition do you make a decision early and ignore any new information that comes your way because you're afraid you might change your mind, or do you keep your mind open to opportunity during the process?

I'm not telling you to R. And I won't. What I'm telling you is to read the letters.
@Lonely husband 42301, how about chipping in here.


----------



## re16

GusPolinski said:


> On the other hand, there may be something in there that he can use in the divorce. If, for example, she admits to the affair (and hey, maybe she’s admitted to other affairs as well), that might help him.


I agree that the letters may contain golden evidence or admissions.

I vote for read them.


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> What more of a chance does she want. Me on my hands and knees begging, cause thats now not happening.


Don't remember you being advised to do that.

I do think you were advised to file and have her served. 

I remember saying that you should watch her actions after that to see if she was deserving of "R".

And of all the things she has done, driving your car without permission seems to be the thing that pushed you over the edge. Must be a hell of a car!


----------



## BluesPower

*Really?*



Chaparral said:


> I don’t see going scorched earth on her, she’s losing her family including half the time with her daughter. Scuba said she has tanked her career. He hasn’t really given us much to go n regarding her actions and I’m guessing he knows a lot more than he has shared.
> 
> Regarding the Posom, well, payback is supposed to be hell. I’m
> betting he is pretty good at playing women and I will bet his wife knows it. I would guess he broke her down on one or more business trips with a lot of drinking involved. After that she became addicted to the thrill of it all. I would also guess her saying she broke it off because she was falling for him was BS and just trying to deflect. But then I was wrong once before. Lol
> 
> My biggest concern is who his friend and father will side with. Hopefully they are much more honorable than their other friend the Posom. After all, birds of a feather.......


Really? I this description what you get from reading his thread. You know I am no angle in so many ways but I think I understand this type of stuff in terms of right and wrong. 

She has been screwing him for a while. Steve is not sure that she screwed her other boss, I think she did but Steve is not convinced. 

She is either just your standard WW and or she is sleeping her way to the top. I am not sure which is worse but they are both bad. 

And you can bet that most of the company knows that old fart is bedding his wife, so unless he has cuckold fetish, that is about as bad as it gets. 

Steve gave her a chance and she lied. 

So am I to understand that you don't need to scorched because this gentle snowflake was led astray by a dirty old man? 

English is my first language, but I still don't understand what in this thread brings you to that conclusion? 

Could you help me understand?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Scuba_Steve said:


> There was a period of week where I did not know what to do. During that time gave her a chance to maker her case. Gave her the time to talk to me, show me and convince me we could make this work. I was open to salvaging this marriage, she chose to lie. What more of a chance does she want. Me on my hands and knees begging, cause thats now not happening.


OK I understand. It's just that in my view you have given her many chances to do the right thing and she did not take a single one until her world got blown up (not completely though).

I have asked these questions before but did not get an answer:



Did she ever admit to being attracted to grandpa and what was her explanation there ? How could she be attracted to someone old and wrinkly ? What was the attraction ? Or was there some other reason for screwing him ?



Did she ever say how it started ? Who made the first move ? How it progressed ? And who ended it ?



I do not think that you will get the truth to either of these questions, but am just curious if you asked her and what her reply was.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Nucking Futs said:


> That's what my gut has been telling me. Look, I'm not pro R by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think I've ever suggested R, I think infidelity should be an automatic end to a marriage. But I'm not here to push that opinion, I'm here for support. Usually when someone decides to R I drop off the thread, it's not something I believe in and I don't feel I can support a poster in it. But I do believe in no regrets, and I think if you don't explore all your options you'll have regrets in the future.
> 
> In a business transition do you make a decision early and ignore any new information that comes your way because you're afraid you might change your mind, or do you keep your mind open to opportunity during the process?
> 
> I'm not telling you to R. And I won't. What I'm telling you is to read the letters.
> 
> @Lonely husband 42301, how about chipping in here.


Well, I would definitely read the letters. She does not know what you know and this will be beneficial to you in my opinion if D is where you are headed. You will very likely find from these letters truly where her head is and they may help you feel better about th decision you arrive at. You may catch her lying is my guess. 

I, like you, was hellbent on divorce right after DDay, but my FWW came clean with me and did not try to gaslight me after I took off for six weeks. From what you post, your WW is not likely to be honest and open, as she is protecting POSGrandpa. It seems she is more worried about him than you and she wants you just to rugsweep the whole thing.

If you have any any inclination at all to r the question you need to ask yourself is “will my life be better or worse without my wife?” BE HONEST With yourself as you think through this question. This is your starting point whether you divorce or reconcile.

Personally, if my FWW tried to bull**** me like yours has, it is very unlikely we would have reconciled. I do not see any remorse from your posts only sorry she got busted. My wife has bent over backwards for me and appreciated greatly my gift of reconciliation. She truly realized the pain and torment I experienced due to her actions. I do not think your gives a rats arse. She just wants everyone to pretend nothing happened.

That is my two cents.


----------



## Marc878

At the end of the day words don't mean much.


----------



## sa58

So she complained about you buying 
your car. Drove it valentines weekend (Date with OM probably)
Then drove it to NJ to see Om. (Date with OM)

She probably did this out of disrespect and spite.

You are on the right track Divorce this damn creature.
Just another sign to me that it is all about her.

I understand taking it back to the dealer.
Don't drive it have them pick it up!

Disrespectful and liar spoiled all about me little brat.
Not away to really show someone you love them

Take care of yourself Steve I do not know if this
person ever loved you. I think she does not now
sorry to say that but it seems it is all about her.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Marc878 said:


> At the end of the day words don't mean much.


No which is why believing in true remorse takes a lot of time. ACTIONS matter more than words. Ever notice how after a WS gets caught some describe their BS as the "love of their life" or some such nonsense. Meaningless. Since their actions said otherwise.


----------



## sa58

I hope talking with your friend 
goes well. I hope he can also give
you some support. I assume he knows
both you and your wife so he should 
be able to help. He may even know
something about what she has been doing.
She sounds like she has her family and toxic 
friend or firend's supporting her. 

So far her actions to me again have said 
ITS ALL ABOUT HER!!


----------



## Marc878

Good luck tomorrow Steve. I would be extremely "matter if fact". This is total BS. I've managed as many as 750 at a time.

Most companies I've dealt with if they are worth anything would fire the OM within the week. Period. End of story.


----------



## Marc878

IMO I'd tell them after the fact you expect him to resign or be terminated.


----------



## sa58

I agree with MARC 878

Nuke his professional life and married life.
That is if Grandma cares. Just leave your
wife in her job. No career progression!!
She probably has killed it already. Just like 
many here have said probably a lot of people 
know what she has been doing.

Take care of yourself you deserve
and will get better than this person.


----------



## jlg07

@Scuba_Steve, IIRC, you are speaking with the owner/your friend about the OM tomorrow. BEST of luck, and make sure you bring any proof (emails, your wife's letters, etc.). Do NOT back down about them getting rid of this POS. Tell them that you would use legal means to get this to happen -- I know that is hard due to your connections with the company, but they NEED to get rid of this guy (and they should make sure they don't give any references, etc. for him).

Again, good luck!


----------



## Gabriel

My guess is that once you've exposed this at work and it gets back to her, she will have a new attitude.

Seems you are most offended by the "how many times" lie. She said 5 times. You read her emails and determined it was likely quite a bit more than that. This is a lie you cannot get past. That was the last straw. Not sure if she told you "22 times" and was truthful if that would have made a difference.

This woman fell in love with an older man. It happens. The whole grandpa thing to me isn't that big a deal. Women don't always fall for the physical attributes. There was something emotional there. A void he filled. Wife didn't have a healthy father figure, and let me tell you, that is the smoking gun on a lot of these women. It screws them up too much. And it often leads to bad relationships.

I make sure I am present with my 17 year old daughter and that she knows I love her. In part, so she won't do something like this to her eventual husband. It's as much for her as it is for him. I was burned by my daddy-issues wife too. It would kill me if my daughter inflicted pain like that on herself and her husband. Please do this with yours. That's the biggest lesson here Steve. One I took with me.

Steve, read the letters so you can learn from them. You also may need them in court. Also, your wife will always be your daughter's mother and this marriage will always be part of your history. The letters may also, much later on when all of this is over and you both have moved on, help you forgive. Remember, forgiveness is for YOU, not for her. It's to free your heart and help you heal yourself.

Good luck Steve. Keep us posted on how you are doing.


----------



## Graywolf2

colingrant said:


> _One of the most damning statements of hers that sticks with me is that "she stopped when she felt she might be falling for him"..... Huh? WTF???? I would be floored by that statement. So she couldn't even say that she got close to the guy and didn't have boundaries and it developed into a relationship and that she just kinda got sucked in.....
> Apparently she just wanted some new ****, wrinkled or not, and as long as she didn't "fall for the guy", it wasn't so bad. That shows a total lack of character/incompatibility of character to me. That's really awful what she said._
> 
> 
> agree. The severity of that one statement is equivalent to someone shooting another and saying, I didn't mean to kill him, only hurt him. I'm not sure she even realized how incriminating it was. It was a conclusive admission, but also *revealed that her misdeed wasn't the sex, but falling for who she was having sex with.* Or another way to put it, the sex isn't wrong, falling in love was. Huh??????/


You sound incredulous colingrant. She may have just been being truthful. Some people (typically women more than men) value the relation much more than the sex act. 
They like their husband just fine and planned to grow old with them. They had no intention of ever breaking up the family so they were faithful in the way that matters most* to them*. 

The relationship was all that's important. The sex and the OM meant nothing. The affair was just some free excitement that no one was ever supposed to find out about. No harm no foul.

They might be very sorry but it's for hurting their husband. They never intended for that to happen because he wasn't supposed to find out. Now they're faced with the fact that their life is changed forever by something that wasn't a big deal to them. 

This is all very primitive and basic biology. An unfaithful women still knows that all of her kids are biologically hers. The only way a man knows that his kids are biologically his is the faithfulness of his spouse.


----------



## Windwalker

Graywolf2 said:


> They might be very sorry but it's for hurting their husband.


I would say the odds of slipping in the shower and dieing are better than a WW being sorry for hurting their husband.


----------



## Thor

Scuba_Steve said:


> She also drove the car during the valentine’s week. I was out of town, I don’t know what she did awhile I was gone.


Funny how the car is a trip point for you. Maybe you're a car guy. I'm a car guy from a family of car guys, and it is certainly something personal to me that my xw did something in my car. I don't know exactly what, but circumstantial evidence suggests she let an AP drive it, but at the least she drove it on a date. To me this was an intentional poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Anyhow the point going forward is you should expect there to be other emotional trip points for you in the D process. Be aware she will say or do something that is going to instantly get your dander up. It will probably surprise you when she does. For me it was the tools - she wanted to play the game of one pair of pliers for me, one pair for you, etc. NFW! I can tell you the project I bought each tool for. They're as personal to me as clothing. For you it may be photos, or which home the kids' books go to. Something is going to surprise you how hard it hits.

So be prepared to calm yourself, and to walk away if you need to. Yes, do stand up for yourself! Assert for what is important to you and what you believe is fair. Just avoid the blowouts. Come back to it when you've calmed down.


----------



## Clay2013

It sounds to me like your done. I really don't understand all the speculation of that your not but maybe I am naive or I am missing something. I think your right in this. You gave her time to really think about it. I don't doubt for a second you told her she needed to tell you everything or you would be done. She knew this. She also knew sleeping with this man would probably end your marriage as well. If your looking for remorse this isn't it. Its a serious reaction of regret knowing this going to break her family up. She is probably going to lose her job out of it once his wife learns of this. Her fear and consequences are not your problems. This is her problem to deal with. I personally suggest just following what your already doing. Get the lawyer you want to move forward with and move swiftly on divorcing her. The things I would work on with this is exposing the OM. Not for gain of him loosing his job. Its to allow his wife to live a free life with all the info she needs to decide. If anything I would take a copy of all their emails and any other forms of communications you can. I would bet your lawyer will want you to hold off of that until your divorce is done. 

To me it all boils down to what is best for you and your ability to co parent your children with out her in your life. 

Good for you for taking a stand.

C


----------



## oldtruck

I vote with read the letters before the meeting with the Boss.
This can provide you with more proof. Also you will then know
the full depth of what happened.

I also agree she did the tattoo boss on that trip. No more
overnight trips for your WW.


----------



## BluesPower

Thor said:


> Funny how the car is a trip point for you. Maybe you're a car guy. I'm a car guy from a family of car guys, and it is certainly something personal to me that my xw did something in my car. I don't know exactly what, but circumstantial evidence suggests she let an AP drive it, but at the least she drove it on a date. To me this was an intentional poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
> 
> Anyhow the point going forward is you should expect there to be other emotional trip points for you in the D process. Be aware she will say or do something that is going to instantly get your dander up. It will probably surprise you when she does. For me it was the tools - she wanted to play the game of one pair of pliers for me, one pair for you, etc. NFW! I can tell you the project I bought each tool for. They're as personal to me as clothing. For you it may be photos, or which home the kids' books go to. Something is going to surprise you how hard it hits.
> 
> So be prepared to calm yourself, and to walk away if you need to. Yes, do stand up for yourself! Assert for what is important to you and what you believe is fair. Just avoid the blowouts. Come back to it when you've calmed down.


This is actually funny to me. I am a huge cook, and did most of the cooking. My Ex W, had the audacity to ask for at least joint custody or the crock pot! The F****** CROCK POT!!!! GTFOOH, you never even touched that crock pot, you never ever make one meal, I will fight to the death for my crock pot!

That one made me insane, she also took the roaster but I did not discover it until I was making thanksgiving dinner, so I just went and bought a better one... I should have just bought a better crock pot, but I love that crock pot!!!


----------



## Windwalker

BluesPower said:


> This is actually funny to me. I am a huge cook, and did most of the cooking. My Ex W, had the audacity to ask for at least joint custody or the crock pot! The F****** CROCK POT!!!! GTFOOH, you never even touched that crock pot, you never ever make one meal, I will fight to the death for my crock pot!
> 
> That one made me insane, she also took the roaster but I did not discover it until I was making thanksgiving dinner, so I just went and bought a better one... I should have just bought a better crock pot, but I love that crock pot!!!



I can understand that. 

For me if I divorce, I want my motorcycle and my Corvette and clothes. She can have everything else. Multiple vehicles, house, furnishings all that jazz. She goes after my motorcycle or Vette, we sell everything down to the last scrap of fuzz under the couch. 

I figure that is fair. Take a swipe at me and I go nuclear.


----------



## MyRevelation

My XW made references that she wanted custody of my bird dog and I lost it.

One of my hunting buddies came over later and mentioned that I was more upset over possibly losing my dog than I was my W ... and I replied, "You bet I am ... I've had him longer and he loves me more!"


----------



## Hoosier

My xw asked for 12 things, I gave her those 12 things and six pickup loads more. What really ticked me off, is her POSOM had her request my chain saw. I knew he wanted it and I barely used it, but that really got me going. When my xw brother came for the lawn mower (which she said I could keep, then changed her mind) that I had recently obtained, he was heisitant as he thought it would be a problem. I told him she could have it but that it ruined a good joke. When someone asked me where I got it I was going to tell them I traded my wife for it!


----------



## Gabriel

Steve, if you are set on D, you may want to be careful about your wife's job. If she is fired and has no income, then you'll have to pay WAY more to her in a D. Frankly, the OM is the one that should lose the job - he was the superior, but we know it's possible your wife could get fired, and that could have bad repercussions to your financial situation post D.


----------



## Chuck71

BluesPower said:


> This is actually funny to me. I am a huge cook, and did most of the cooking. My Ex W, had the audacity to ask for at least joint custody or the crock pot! The F****** CROCK POT!!!! GTFOOH, you never even touched that crock pot, you never ever make one meal, I will fight to the death for my crock pot!
> 
> That one made me insane, she also took the roaster but I did not discover it until I was making thanksgiving dinner, so I just went and bought a better one... I should have just bought a better crock pot, but I love that crock pot!!!


Hilarious! I can believe it though. My XW asked me....a few weeks before the D was final and I was...

staying elsewhere until she vacated my house..... to cook her my famous homemade chili.

My reply.....-Try Logan's- She knew that was why I first started to make it. I got a bowl there for $4.50

and it was dark runny sheet..... I called the manager, -can you make it better- LOL Well I did....
@Windwalker my STBXW threatened to go after my Corvette. The one pop passed on to me.

He bought it when I was three months old for $1200 and sold it to me for $1201 when I was of age.

The dingy twit didn't realize I put it in mom's name a week before we got M. 

I'll give her dues though on the fact she never touched my vintage baseball card collection.

She knew better.....


----------



## Suspicious1

I'm a huge music listener, I can sit and listen to music for hours on my then state of the art stereo system.

When I found out my Ex-w was seeing someone on the side, I grabbed all my light stuff things clothing and such but left my speakers and electronics.

She tried to say she had help me in purchasing and researching every single part of my system. The judge saw right through her bs, and was very harsh on her if anything suddenly to the system. At the time it was worth over 10K, this 1997. I was happy to get it back.

Bitter WW will always go after what you hold to to your heart and love.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Windwalker

Suspicious1 said:


> I'm a huge music listener, I can sit and listen to music for hours on my then state of the art stereo system.
> 
> When I found out my Ex-w was seeing someone on the side, I grabbed all my light stuff things clothing and such but left my speakers and electronics.
> 
> She tried to say she had help me in purchasing and researching every single part of my system. The judge saw right through her bs, and was very harsh on her if anything suddenly to the system. At the time it was worth over 10K, this 1997. I was happy to get it back.
> 
> Bitter WW will always go after what you hold to to your heart and love.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That's right, because the intent is to cause more pain and take away anything you cherish. Some people are really petty.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I meet with my friend. We agreed at the OM has to go. The both of us are going to meet with his dad tomorrow to figure out the best way to handle this. The both of us would like to keep the exposure to a minimum. My friend right now is looking into if the OM has had other office affairs. My friend has heard of a couple of rumors before. I think we all know he probably has.

Today I found out that my wife handed in her 2 weeks notice. This will be her last week at work. I didn't know until my friend found out a couple of hours ago. I plan to talking with my wife later tonight. This doesn't really change anything in my eyes, I still want a divorce.

Depending on how the talk goes I might read the letters.


----------



## Marc878

Good for you man. Very happy for you. At least you won't have to be around him.

Nice job in handling this


----------



## Suspicious1

Scuba_Steve said:


> I meet with my friend. We agreed at the OM has to go. The both of us are going to meet with his dad tomorrow to figure out the best way to handle this. The both of us would like to keep the exposure to a minimum. My friend right now is looking into if the OM has had other office affairs. My friend has heard of a couple of rumors before. I think we all know he probably has.
> 
> Today I found out that my wife handed in her 2 weeks notice. This will be her last week at work. I didn't know until my friend found out a couple of hours ago. I plan to talking with my wife later tonight. This doesn't really change anything in my eyes, I still want a divorce.
> 
> Depending on how the talk goes I might read the letters.


Stay your course Steve.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## sa58

Her notice could be because everybody knows 
because of rumors or something else. I guess you will 
find out when you talk to her.


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## sa58

Glad to hear Om will be gone probably soon
better for you not to be around him and from
your other posts better for everyone

How are you doing otherwise?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sa58 said:


> Her notice could be because everybody knows
> because of rumors or something else. I guess you will
> find when you talk to her.


It would of been bigger news, few people if any know about the affair.


----------



## Marc878

Don't be surprised at least more than you think suspected it. Her enabling friend probably works there too. Won't take long for it to spread


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## sa58

At least she is away from Om also
Maybe a step in the right direction.
For the both of you.

I guess you will not know until you talk to her.


----------



## Suspicious1

Grandpa must be soiling his depends, as I'm sure he senses something isn't quite right at the office. Every ticking second he's that much closer to a whole new lifestyle, and uncomfortable changes! 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I meet with my friend. We agreed at the OM has to go. The both of us are going to meet with his dad tomorrow to figure out the best way to handle this. The both of us would like to keep the exposure to a minimum. My friend right now is looking into if the OM has had other office affairs. My friend has heard of a couple of rumors before. I think we all know he probably has.
> 
> Today I found out that my wife handed in her 2 weeks notice. This will be her last week at work. I didn't know until my friend found out a couple of hours ago. I plan to talking with my wife later tonight. This doesn't really change anything in my eyes, I still want a divorce.
> 
> Depending on how the talk goes I might read the letters.


She quit on her own initiative. She is taking ownership. I assume she knows you have not read the letters?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Given that she quit on what appears to be her own initiative (unless HR found out and forced her out) I think you should read those letters in front of her.


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## sa58

Scuba Steve
Just take care of yourself and your daughter
I never really care much what happens to
the cheater. Maybe you and your wife can
reach a good co-parenting agreement
My son 32 and his ex still have issues from
time to time however. But both sides of the family
make sure they do not affect my grand daughter

Filing Wed.?

If you read the letters maybe more questions
and maybe she will answer more of your questions
Why? When? etc.


----------



## Handy

*Suspicious1 
Grandpa must be soiling his depends, .....*

I am older than most of the posters. My age does not automatically put me in the Depends group and I expect the OM to be much younger than I am.

I think helping Steve negotiate this mess would be better WITH OUT resorting to untrue putdowns or name calling.

I am not defending the OM or Steve's W. I have read some people respect older people as more than friends and that includes the older person could be a lover, if even temporary or for the wrong reason/s.

Paul McCartney (Beatles) was born in 1942 and I bet there are few women that get wet if they could be his GF. The OM wasn't Paul McCartney but hay, money and a high position does have some attraction, especially if the guy pays a lot of attention to the woman.


----------



## Chuck71

Suspicious1 said:


> Grandpa must be soiling his depends, as I'm sure he senses something isn't quite right at the office. Every ticking second he's that much closer to a whole new lifestyle, and uncomfortable changes!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I do believe the first person to reference Grandpa was.... Scuba Steve. @Handy

Not the poster you decided to lash out at. I called him PeePaw... where's my negativity?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Glad to hear again that you made contact with
your friend. Now you at least have someone there
for support. He sounds like a really great friend
Those are hard to come by these days.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> Today I found out that my wife handed in her 2 weeks notice. This will be her last week at work. I didn't know.


Gramps probably keeps hitting on her, trying to restart it.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’m ever going to drive that car again.
> 
> All of this set me off, she was the one complaining about the car when I bought the car but yet she drove the car more the me.


Did she ever complain to you that you don't pay attention to her opinion?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chaparral said:


> Frankly, she’s acting like about every other wayward I see here that doesn’t want a divorce. They never come clean right off the bat. They’re in damage control. They don’t come clean till you hold their feet to the fire.


That's been my observation, too. Maybe there's one unicorn in a thousand that come clean right off the bat. And a good number don't come clean even when their feet held to the fire. But practically none come clean without the hotfoot.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

When Om is gone be sure and tell your wife and 
watch her reaction. Since she has resigned for
what ever reason. When he goes she will know 
you were involved and maybe see what she 
did and how it affected everybody involved.
Or she may not care.

Sounds like you have a long or short 
talk with the wife tonight. Stay calm thou.
Maybe if you can get a VAR so you will
have a recording .


----------



## TAMAT

Steve,

Try and find out who else the OM was involved with, dime them out to the BHs, perhaps they can do some of the work for you of giving the OM what's coming to him. At the very least you will be helping them to either recover or leave their marriages. 

You may save a few more families through your good work. 

Tamat


----------



## stro

I know this must be hard. The fact that she handed in her notice unsolicited at least shows a small amount of character on her part. maybe she is on the slow path to remorse. Though I understand you still want divorce. I don’t even think I could try recovery in your position without following through with divorce. Though I don’t think I could have gone silent for as long as you have. I gotta commend you for that.


----------



## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> It would of been bigger news, few people if any know about the affair.


I believe she is getting help to save the marriage. 

Everything she has been doing is what is required to R.


----------



## sokillme

Just make sure you have the whole idea. In your first post it sounded like a lot of the cheating was done during the weekends. This is harder to do assuming the other man is married. There maybe more here. 

Unfortunately you may want to DNA your kid too. The world is grim.


----------



## Cromer

sokillme said:


> Unfortunately you may want to DNA your kid too. The world is grim.


Sadly so, been there and recommend it.


----------



## colingrant

Should be noted that remorse typically doesn't happen right away. Lots of processing, shock, embarrassment, shame and cover up occupies the WS's mind immediately following discovery. For the BS, who has endured unspeakable pain, it doesn't come quickly enough, but in many, and perhaps most cases, it simply isn't this soon. Doesn't matter now that scuba's mind is made up.


----------



## drifting on

Handy said:


> *Suspicious1
> Grandpa must be soiling his depends, .....*
> 
> I am older than most of the posters. My age does not automatically put me in the Depends group and I expect the OM to be much younger than I am.
> 
> I think helping Steve negotiate this mess would be better WITH OUT resorting to untrue putdowns or name calling.
> 
> I am not defending the OM or Steve's W. I have read some people respect older people as more than friends and that includes the older person could be a lover, if even temporary or for the wrong reason/s.
> 
> Paul McCartney (Beatles) was born in 1942 and I bet there are few women that get wet if they could be his GF. The OM wasn't Paul McCartney but hay, money and a high position does have some attraction, especially if the guy pays a lot of attention to the woman.




Handy

I certainly don’t wish to threadjack scuba’s thread, and I thought I was the first to call him grandpa, admittedly I did not think if I was offending any posters. My reasons for calling him grandpa were many, but the biggest reason is to show scuba I know exactly how he felt. My wife’s OM is twenty five years her senior, not anything close to wealthy or an executive. Comparing Paul McCartney to OM is probably a bigger insult then calling him grandpa, but I won’t go there. You see, as a man it’s a real kick to the gut to know that someone twenty years older then yourself somehow said the right things to have an affair with your wife. I can tell you that emasculated me more then anything about my wife’s affair. I made jokes in my individual therapy that he was out on a day pass from the nursing home for Pete’s sake. 

My point is, that someone being that much older then you and your wife cuts to your very core. In many ways it deadens part of you that I still haven’t got back from. Certainly I didn’t mean to offend anyone with my calling him grandpa. My other point to scuba was to show his wife has daddy issues which is far more concerning, that can lead to a whole new train wreck of issues. If you took offense to my calling him grandpa, I sincerely apologize for offending you, that was not my intentions. With that being said, I personally could not be with anyone that much older or younger then myself. This is not an insult you or anyone else, it’s just my belief that you date and marry someone much closer to your own age. Again, that is strictly just my own opinion. I couldn’t imagine dating a grandma or someone who would be young enough to be my daughter. I’m not trying to insult you there either, just stating my opinion.


----------



## sokillme

Handy said:


> *Suspicious1
> Grandpa must be soiling his depends, .....*
> 
> I am older than most of the posters. My age does not automatically put me in the Depends group and I expect the OM to be much younger than I am.
> 
> I think helping Steve negotiate this mess would be better WITH OUT resorting to untrue putdowns or name calling.
> 
> I am not defending the OM or Steve's W. I have read some people respect older people as more than friends and that includes the older person could be a lover, if even temporary or for the wrong reason/s.
> 
> Paul McCartney (Beatles) was born in 1942 and I bet there are few women that get wet if they could be his GF. The OM wasn't Paul McCartney but hay, money and a high position does have some attraction, especially if the guy pays a lot of attention to the woman.


Seriously dude? The guy's wife cheated on him, his whole world has blown up, and you are writing a post about people calling him grandpa. And this because it personally offends you because of your age? 

First of all because people call the dude grandpa doesn't mean they don't respect the elderly. I am close to the dudes age (if I remember 40-50s?), and you know what, close enough to be a grandpa. So dude is a grandpa's age, and an ******* for sleeping with another man's wife at that. 

The purpose of the thread is to help this guy, this post is not that.


----------



## Gabriel

Wow, I am actually very impressed that she has put in her 2 week notice.

More that most waywards, she's really owning up to her crap and taking action to prove it.

I'm thinking she got played by a master player. This guy probably learned pretty quickly that your wife was a good target, the daddy issues, etc., made her easy prey for him. He had his fun and then threw her away.

Torch his a$$. He's been a huge part in ruining your family.

Given your wife's family history, she was extremely vulnerable to this kind of person. 

Dang.


----------



## sokillme

Gabriel said:


> Wow, I am actually very impressed that she has put in her 2 week notice.
> 
> More that most waywards, she's really owning up to her crap and taking action to prove it.
> 
> I'm thinking she got played by a master player. This guy probably learned pretty quickly that your wife was a good target, the daddy issues, etc., made her easy prey for him. He had his fun and then threw her away.
> 
> Torch his a$$. He's been a huge part in ruining your family.
> 
> Given your wife's family history, she was extremely vulnerable to this kind of person.
> 
> Dang.


I get what you are saying but she was actively hiding an affair for months, with a guy they both work with no less. This idea supposes they don't know what they are getting into. She is no victim on the contrary she was the perpetrator. She knew what she was doing she just didn't care about the consequences.

I agree torch his ass. Make sure his wife knows.


----------



## Malaise

sokillme said:


> I get what you are saying but she was actively hiding an affair for months, with a guy they both work with no less. This idea supposes they don't know what they are getting into. She is no victim on the contrary she was the perpetrator. *She knew what she was doing she just didn't care about the consequences.
> *
> I agree torch his ass. Make sure his wife knows.


She thought she was too clever to be caught.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,

I'm happy to hear that your meeting with your friend went well. I'm even happier that the two of you are going further up the food chain. The POS-Grandpa needs to go, and I'm glad that all the pertinent parties agree.

As far as your wife turning in her 2 weeks notice, I'm not about to assign motives to that. Somewhat puzzling on its own, but I would say it's not unheard of.

You are doing excellent. 
Stay the course.
A toast and virtual beer to you for your determination to remove yourself from infidelity.
:toast:


----------



## Malaise

Windwalker said:


> Steve,
> 
> I'm happy to hear that your meeting with your friend went well. I'm even happier that the two of you are going further up the food chain. The POS-Grandpa needs to go, and I'm glad that all the pertinent parties agree.
> 
> *As far as your wife turning in her 2 weeks notice, I'm not about to assign motives to that.* Somewhat puzzling on its own, but I would say it's not unheard of.
> 
> You are doing excellent.
> Stay the course.
> A toast and virtual beer to you for your determination to remove yourself from infidelity.
> :toast:


I'm going out on a limb and guessing the letters included that she was giving notice, and maybe her reasons for doing so.


----------



## Beach123

Good work so far - as hard as it is now you need to continue protecting your future.

The judge will have evidence she is capable of earning the same money she's making now. And that she should be able to become employed again shortly.

It's time to inform the OM wife now - in person - so that she knows what's real. OM will likely lie to her about why he gets fired.

She needs to be able to check her health - for her own safety.


----------



## Chaparral

sokillme said:


> I get what you are saying but she was actively hiding an affair for months, with a guy they both work with no less. This idea supposes they don't know what they are getting into. She is no victim on the contrary she was the perpetrator. She knew what she was doing she just didn't care about the consequences.
> 
> I agree torch his ass. Make sure his wife knows.


Some people are terribly naive. Some people are very susceptible to alchohol, medication, drugs etc. In the disco age downs and cocaine were common ways to overcome inhibitions. And it works both ways. A married woman played me. Recently married at that. I didn’t even know it till a common friend told me she had married.

While I no longer get on the reconcilliation bandwagon, I can see where it can be possible. Realistically, the only thing we have been told here is she had and affair. Most details have been assumed by posters other than the OP. This is all to common here.

The point I am poorly trying to make is that good people can do bad things that are out of character for them. The threads on this forum are tragedies and all involved deserve some respect until they prove themselves totally unworthy. That has yet to be shown here.


----------



## Suspicious1

Handy said:


> *Suspicious1
> Grandpa must be soiling his depends, .....*
> 
> I am older than most of the posters. My age does not automatically put me in the Depends group and I expect the OM to be much younger than I am.
> 
> I think helping Steve negotiate this mess would be better WITH OUT resorting to untrue putdowns or name calling.
> 
> I am not defending the OM or Steve's W. I have read some people respect older people as more than friends and that includes the older person could be a lover, if even temporary or for the wrong reason/s.
> 
> Paul McCartney (Beatles) was born in 1942 and I bet there are few women that get wet if they could be his GF. The OM wasn't Paul McCartney but hay, money and a high position does have some attraction, especially if the guy pays a lot of attention to the woman.


Not sure I would have included,or compare Sir Paul McCartney as someone who would steal someone else's wife. From what I read and heard he's an extraordinary man who has nothing but love for those in his life and beyond.
He loved Linda profoundly and you can tell by his children, Stella comes to mind.

Either my apologies for coming put rude, and insensitive.

Good day.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

I think she’s worth a shot. 

We have had waywards post here on TAM who were a lot less remorseful than this WW, and they eventually turned it around.


----------



## dubsey

> I think she’s worth a shot.
> 
> We have had waywards post here on TAM who were a lot less remorseful than this WW, and they eventually turned it around.



Agreed, he should, IMO:

1. read the letters.
2. hear her out
3. offer absolutely nothing
4. still continue on for divorce
5. keep an open mind
6. allow her to see how much work she wants to do
7. remind her, she'll never be the same to him. never. and she needs to be ok with that idea


----------



## 3putt

Reminds me of this-


----------



## stro

bandit.45 said:


> I think she’s worth a shot.
> 
> We have had waywards post here on TAM who were a lot less remorseful than this WW, and they eventually turned it around.


as a thoughtless woman who destroyed her family and was less than forthcoming I do say her recent actions are mildly respectable. If I were in Steve’s shoes my interest may be peaked. Though I think some anger would need to subside before I had the clarity to notice. I think It’s at least earned a conversation. I would still continue with divorce though.


----------



## drifting on

With the quitting of her employment is an action, an action in my opinion that can’t simply be overlooked. Scuba should find the reasons why she quit, what she plans in the future for employment, and how she plans to support herself. It is my hope that rather then tell OM she is quitting, that she called the owner/CEO himself to submit her two weeks notice. I wouldn’t want to imagine wife and OM in a closed door meeting discussing her leaving the company. 

Scuba, you can say you gave her many chances to come clean, not many would at the point your wife was in when given the chance. The reason is because you just found out, she wasn’t ready nor prepared to be honest yet, she had far to much to lose. It is for this same reason waywards give the trickle truth, they don’t know what little nugget of information is going to send you packing. Instead waywards believe in giving up little by little not understanding that it’s killing you inside. My wife did not understand this either, so I shut it down hard. 

Your wife is coming to understand what is now fully at stake for the both of you. Having her served divorce papers will drive that understanding completely home. This is why I say to wait six months, both of you are very emotional, have her served while keeping your actions open. Don’t give false hope to your wife, tell her even though you filed both divorce and reconciliation are possible. You yourself said you wouldn’t talk to her or read the letters because you felt you may change your decision. For that reason alone you have some indecision on what may be best for you. I’m not trying to steer you either way, I’m trying to get you to make your decision from a position of strength. In my opinion you need to stay your course of divorce, it has been too little actions on her part to just say let’s reconcile. You need to watch her actions over time, six months can give you that time if you file for divorce. 

What your wife has done by quitting is a huge step forward for her, sadly it’s still not enough. What other actions has she been doing to show she should be given the gift of reconciliation? Has she been transparent, honest, forthcoming with information you didn’t know? You also must remember her words from when she confessed, I broke it off as I felt I was falling for him. This confession alone gives you so much to question. Her quitting is huge, so was that statement during her confession. You could say that her quitting and giving you that statement are off setting penalties, they’re both huge. 

In my opinion I would read the letters, could be that she is to weak to say this in person, but could better express herself in a letter. You know her best, but my wife can communicate better in a letter then she can in person. During reconciliation this changed to where my wife now communicates in both letter and person. It’s an improvement in the communication we now share with each other.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

I certainly don’t want to paint your wife as a victim, but what if she were a victim of sexual harassment and that’s why she’s quitting? What if OM told her he would jeopardize your employment if she didn’t? My point is, all the answers could be in those letters you haven’t read yet, but you need to understand how important it is that she quit on her own.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

1. Meet with the Father of your friend. Get his feedback.

2. Meet with your wife.

3. Have a written agenda:

a). Read the letters in her presence.

b). Have a list of questions.

c). Have a list of demands.

d). Tell her she *will* be served.

e). Tell her you will be watching her actions from here on out.


----------



## Nucking Futs

drifting on said:


> With the quitting of her employment is an action, an action in my opinion that can’t simply be overlooked. Scuba should find the reasons why she quit, what she plans in the future for employment, and how she plans to support herself. It is my hope that rather then tell OM she is quitting, that she called the owner/CEO himself to submit her two weeks notice. I wouldn’t want to imagine wife and OM in a closed door meeting discussing her leaving the company.
> 
> Scuba, you can say you gave her many chances to come clean, not many would at the point your wife was in when given the chance. The reason is because you just found out, she wasn’t ready nor prepared to be honest yet, she had far to much to lose. It is for this same reason waywards give the trickle truth, they don’t know what little nugget of information is going to send you packing. Instead waywards believe in giving up little by little not understanding that it’s killing you inside. My wife did not understand this either, so I shut it down hard.
> 
> Your wife is coming to understand what is now fully at stake for the both of you. Having her served divorce papers will drive that understanding completely home. This is why I say to wait six months, both of you are very emotional, have her served while keeping your actions open. Don’t give false hope to your wife, tell her even though you filed both divorce and reconciliation are possible. You yourself said you wouldn’t talk to her or read the letters because you felt you may change your decision. For that reason alone you have some indecision on what may be best for you. I’m not trying to steer you either way, I’m trying to get you to make your decision from a position of strength. *In my opinion you need to stay your course of divorce,* it has been too little actions on her part to just say let’s reconcile. You need to watch her actions over time, six months can give you that time if you file for divorce.
> 
> What your wife has done by quitting is a huge step forward for her, sadly it’s still not enough. What other actions has she been doing to show she should be given the gift of reconciliation? Has she been transparent, honest, forthcoming with information you didn’t know? You also must remember her words from when she confessed, I broke it off as I felt I was falling for him. This confession alone gives you so much to question. Her quitting is huge, so was that statement during her confession. You could say that her quitting and giving you that statement are off setting penalties, they’re both huge.
> 
> In my opinion I would read the letters, could be that she is to weak to say this in person, but could better express herself in a letter. You know her best, but my wife can communicate better in a letter then she can in person. During reconciliation this changed to where my wife now communicates in both letter and person. It’s an improvement in the communication we now share with each other.


For clarity, DO is not using stay in the legal sense. Keep the divorce in progress, it's not an instant thing so you have time to change your mind.


----------



## sa58

Steve 
I hope you took the chance to talk to your wife last night.
Maybe you even decided to read the letters. Regardless I hope 
you have began some form of communication. It is probably
something you don't want to do, but you will have to in the future.
Her two week resignation could be for many reasons. Trying to show 
you she is willing to give up her job,someone telling her what to do, 
getting out of the situation at work etc. Only she knows the reason
just as she is the only one who knows why and how the affair began.

There are and will be many more revelations to come. Your emotions have 
and will continue to change with each and everyday. I think you will do
as you have so far, look at each and every option. You must do what ever
is best for you and your daughter. There have been and still will be many
varied and different viewpoints here on TAM. Each and every situation is
different just as each individual is different and unique. We are after all just
reading words on a screen. We do not truly know your situation. Weigh every
thing and choose what is best for you. 

I hope your meeting with your friends father was very productive. Om should (IMO)
be gone by (yesterday). Once he is removed there will inevitably be rumors around.
Ignore them they will fade in time, new ones seem to always arise. You have done 
nothing and (IMO) given the situation have done better than some. 

Whatever you choose to do is entirely up to you. (R/D) I have always had mixed feelings
about R. (IMO) is it really ever the same after an affair. (IMO) I would continue with the divorce
If she wanted to be part of your life again she would have to earn that RIGHT. I would never
remarry her thou. You and her have a daughter, she will always be part of your life.
I hope you and your wife can start communicating at least for her. Maybe even for grand kids someday?

Again I hope that you and your wife had a chance to talk last night.
Just as many of us here will tell you Divorce can be stopped at anytime 
during the process. If you choose to.


----------



## drifting on

Nucking Futs said:


> For clarity, DO is not using stay in the legal sense. Keep the divorce in progress, it's not an instant thing so you have time to change your mind.





Nucking Futs

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant.


----------



## sokillme

Chaparral said:


> Some people are terribly naive. Some people are very susceptible to alchohol, medication, drugs etc. In the disco age downs and cocaine were common ways to overcome inhibitions. And it works both ways. A married woman played me. Recently married at that. I didn’t even know it till a common friend told me she had married.
> 
> While I no longer get on the reconcilliation bandwagon, I can see where it can be possible. Realistically, the only thing we have been told here is she had and affair. Most details have been assumed by posters other than the OP. This is all to common here.
> 
> The point I am poorly trying to make is that good people can do bad things that are out of character for them. The threads on this forum are tragedies and all involved deserve some respect until they prove themselves totally unworthy. That has yet to be shown here.


The difference between you and OP's wife is she is married all she had to do was follow her vows, whether this guy lied or not doesn't matter. She was off the market because she was married so if he lied to her doesn't matter. The only victim here and it's OP.


----------



## sokillme

dubsey said:


> 7. remind her, she'll never be the same to him. never. and she needs to be ok with that idea


True but why should he?


----------



## drifting on

sa58 said:


> Steve
> I hope you took the chance to talk to your wife last night.
> Maybe you even decided to read the letters. Regardless I hope
> you have began some form of communication. It is probably
> something you don't want to do, but you will have to in the future.
> Her two week resignation could be for many reasons. Trying to show
> you she is willing to give up her job,someone telling her what to do,
> getting out of the situation at work etc. Only she knows the reason
> just as she is the only one who knows why and how the affair began.
> 
> There are and will be many more revelations to come. Your emotions have
> and will continue to change with each and everyday. I think you will do
> as you have so far, look at each and every option. You must do what ever
> is best for you and your daughter. There have been and still will be many
> varied and different viewpoints here on TAM. Each and every situation is
> different just as each individual is different and unique. We are after all just
> reading words on a screen. We do not truly know your situation. Weigh every
> thing and choose what is best for you.
> 
> I hope your meeting with your friends father was very productive. Om should (IMO)
> be gone by (yesterday). Once he is removed there will inevitably be rumors around.
> Ignore them they will fade in time, new ones seem to always arise. You have done
> nothing and (IMO) given the situation have done better than some.
> 
> Whatever you choose to do is entirely up to you. (R/D) I have always had mixed feelings
> about R. (IMO) is it really ever the same after an affair. (IMO) I would continue with the divorce
> If she wanted to be part of your life again she would have to earn that right. I would never
> remarry her thou. You and her have a daughter, she will always be part of your life.
> I hope you and your wife can start communicating at least for her. Maybe even for grand kids someday?
> 
> Again I hope that you and your wife had a chance to talk last night.
> Just as many of us here will tell you Divorce can be stopped at anytime
> during the process. If you choose to.




The last two paragraphs are basically what this post is directed at. 

Scuba, obviously if you divorce your life is in for many different changes. If you reconcile your life is in for many different changes. Your marriage is dead, it died the day your wife began her affair. If you choose to reconcile, you grieve the loss of your old marriage, you then rebuild a new marriage. You keep the good memories from your old marriage, you learn from the bad memories of your old marriage. You work on yourself, your faults, and what you brought to the marriage that was toxic. Your wife does the same, as well as learning and repairing why she had an affair. Reconciliation is very hard work, both members must be fully committed to make it work. There are tough days, days filled with tears and anger, pain, self reflecting, and it can be trying. You need to think very clearly if you choose to reconcile, it’s not for everyone.


----------



## dubsey

sokillme said:


> True but why should he?


He doesn't need to be - at all, but he doesn't even have a realistic option if she can't accept that part first.


----------



## sokillme

dubsey said:


> He doesn't need to be - at all, but he doesn't even have a realistic option if she can't accept that part first.


True.


----------



## thedope

So

1. WW had an affair

2. Lies about affair and tries to gas light

3. Tried to cover for affair wouldn’t admit with who

4. When forced to admitted to “5 times”

5. Gave false original time line

6. OM wife still hasnt been told or is their work place exposure. 

Scuba needs to start getting a better plan on track because his current one is off the rails. Not sure why people are trying to even consider R at this point. She has been playing the cheater script. She is still lying.


----------



## TAMAT

Steve,

If your WW was really sorry she would be doing your work for you.

Starting a lawsuit against OM.

Confessing to OMW and his kids in person. 

Tamat


----------



## re16

Steve...

What did the letters say?


----------



## sa58

Drifting on
I understand and appreciate your point of view.
My point of view is the choice of whatever 
he decides to do is his. I am neither R/D
His choice is what ever he decides is best.
(IMO) I think that has and will continue to change.
No R is not for everyone,and I think it is 
as I stated all (viewpoints) so he will make 
the best decision for him and his daughter. 
Regardless of my viewpoints
the choice is his and his alone. 
I am sure you will agree since he has a daughter 
what ever he decides will affect her and him.
For a long time.


----------



## Chuck71

drifting on said:


> The last two paragraphs are basically what this post is directed at.
> 
> Scuba, obviously if you divorce your life is in for many different changes. If you reconcile your life is in for many different changes. Your marriage is dead, it died the day your wife began her affair. If you choose to reconcile, you grieve the loss of your old marriage, you then rebuild a new marriage. You keep the good memories from your old marriage, you learn from the bad memories of your old marriage. You work on yourself, your faults, and what you brought to the marriage that was toxic. Your wife does the same, as well as learning and repairing why she had an affair. Reconciliation is very hard work, both members must be fully committed to make it work. There are tough days, days filled with tears and anger, pain, self reflecting, and it can be trying. You need to think very clearly if you choose to reconcile, it’s not for everyone.


Spot on.... But the M should be ended. Steve would have great leverage (he needs all he can

get in his state) if she agrees to zero CS or alimony. Hell... they can remain in the same house.

But if she wants it enough, she would do that. The M is over and they can try to start anew.

If he simply R.... and realizes it was not a true one or he can't get past her actions... well

that's where the D gets really nasty.


----------



## drifting on

sa58 said:


> Drifting on
> I understand and appreciate your point of view.
> My point of view is the choice of whatever
> he decides to do is his. I am neither R/D
> His choice is what ever he decides is best.
> (IMO) I think that has and will continue to change.
> No R is not for everyone,and I think it is
> as I stated all (viewpoints) so he will make
> the best decision for him and his daughter.
> Regardless of my viewpoints
> the choice is his and his alone.
> I am sure you will agree since he has a daughter
> what ever he decides will affect her and him.
> For a long time.




sa 

I usually support what the betrayed spouse wants, of course it is scuba’s decision to do what is best for him. Whatever is best for him will in return be best for his daughter, even though the home is broken. The home was actually broken the moment she cheated, just as the marriage died. I’m simply trying to point out to scuba that reconciliation is a beast of an animal. That’s with BOTH spouses committed to the new marriage. I’m not trying to sway scuba’s decision in the least, but instead to watch the actions of the wayward. True, his decision could change every day, it could change multiple times a day. I just want scuba to make an informed and neautral decision from a position of strength. In other words, I want what you want, and that’s whatever scuba decides.

On a side note, I’ve been enjoying your posts as of late, they are extremely balanced which is a huge help to those who come here.


----------



## drifting on

Chuck71 said:


> Spot on.... But the M should be ended. Steve would have great leverage (he needs all he can
> 
> get in his state) if she agrees to zero CS or alimony. Hell... they can remain in the same house.
> 
> But if she wants it enough, she would do that. The M is over and they can try to start anew.
> 
> If he simply R.... and realizes it was not a true one or he can't get past her actions... well
> 
> that's where the D gets really nasty.




One would hope the wayward will do this, but not likely, she is still thinking of herself even though she showed a good action by quitting. To be completely honest and after I have been through what I have, what we basically did was divorce just not through the courts. In my opinion during reconciliation there is a period of where you feel more like roommates the spouses. It’s during forgiveness and the betrayed is fearful of trusting again or trusting too much. Infidelity destroys so much it is a struggle to resume normally, it’s during this time you are surviving by being just roommates. It does get better if done right, if you work very hard, and you can truly accept many nuances of your situation. 

Although scuba’s wife has quit her job without scuba’s asking that I can see, this is a positive step for his wife. But I wouldn’t be racing home to talk, I’d take time to see if she can take other steps in the right direction before really even entertaining the thought of reconciliation. One reason is because we don’t know if she quit out of shame as maybe more people then they think know of the affair. If she quit for that reason, then she is still thinking of herself that just happened to look like a good move on her part.


----------



## sa58

All viewpoints are important. Each persons experience 
is different and unique. They have and always will have a connection
because of their daughter. When I say all viewpoints and helping him make 
the best choice I say that because we (TAM) are only here now.
A long time is after his choice. Their daughter is only 2 .






What ever appears attractive in the dark
Does not shine so brightly in the light.


----------



## inging

sa58 said:


> All viewpoints are important. Each persons experience
> is different and unique. They have and always will have a connection
> because of their daughter. When I say all viewpoints and helping him make
> the best choice I say that because we (TAM) are only here now.
> A long time is after his choice. Their daughter is only 2 .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What ever appears attractive in the dark
> Does not shine so brightly in the light.


The fact that ScubaSteve has a two year old daughter has a huge impact. The reality is that he is going to have a lot of contact with his wife in the next 18 years. He stands to lose an awful lot of time with his daughter and that time can not be replaced. I just hope that Steve can take the 20,000 foot view of this. If there is any chance of reconciliation here I feel I should push it. I rarely do that. In most cases it is not even an option.


----------



## Handy

Saying that someone referred to as being in the "Depends" group for me sounds like junior high or middle school talk. My idea is to just stick to what we know to be true. Also take in to consideration, based on most affairs,what many cheaters do. I see a lot of "group think" on TAM, which (group think) can lead to the wrong conclusions.

I know Steve is upset. I empathize with his predicament. Adding extra feelings or opinions doesn't seem like the correct thing to do or be the most helpful in the long run.

What "I" think is Steve should read the letter Ms Scuba gave to him, she quit work because she knows she did wrong. Trying to do the right thing, quitting work and not being around the OM/OW is college level 101 of the basics for people that had affairs.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

inging said:


> The fact that ScubaSteve has a two year old daughter has a huge impact. The reality is that he is going to have a lot of contact with his wife in the next 18 years. He stands to lose an awful lot of time with his daughter and that time can not be replaced. I just hope that Steve can take the 20,000 foot view of this. If there is any chance of reconciliation here I feel I should push it. I rarely do that. In most cases it is not even an option.


It can be done, as I can attest to, but it is extremely difficult. Triggers, mind movies, etc. His posts do not seem to indicate she is remorseful, however, resigning from her job is a big step in admitting she is trying to fix things. I know it is impossible to post everything one experiences on your thread. Keep in mind, that without true remorse there can be no successful reconciliation. Steve needs to see and experience true remorse both in words and actions matching what she has said. He will know it when she tries to do anything humanly possible to take away his pain.


----------



## sokillme

It doesn't have to be done though. At her age now this girl will have no memory of her parents ever being together. It's more important that the child has two active parents in her life then that they are together. Especially at the expense of 20 years of an unhappy father or a very bad marriage.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> It can be done, as I can attest to, but it is extremely difficult. Triggers, mind movies, etc. His posts do not seem to indicate she is remorseful, however, *resigning from her job is a big step in admitting she is trying to fix things.* I know it is impossible to post everything one experiences on your thread. Keep in mind, that without true remorse there can be no successful reconciliation. Steve needs to see and experience true remorse both in words and actions matching what she has said. He will know it when she tries to do anything humanly possible to take away his pain.


 Maybe, maybe not.
She easily could have resigned out of embarrassment, or some other self-serving reason that has nothing to do with remorse. Still waiting for info on that. At this point it is an assumption only.


----------



## Windwalker

Handy said:


> What "I" think is Steve should read the letter Ms Scuba gave to him, she quit work because she knows she did wrong. Trying to do the right thing, quitting work and not being around the OM/OW is college level 101 of the basics for people that had affairs.


Unless Steve posts otherwise with pertinent information any reason that his wife quit is pure SPECULATION.


----------



## Beach123

Of course it's speculation... but my gut says she quit to avoid having to endure the talk that will come when everyone finds out she had an affair with a man that old - and that it's gonna cost her the marriage.

She's not thought of her family/husband's feelings thus far - so it's unlikely she worried about his feelings now - unless it serves her well.


----------



## Marc878

I agree. It’s probably to avoid the embarrassment/drama when it comes out


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk. 

Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance. Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan. She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one. She does sound remorseful. I believe she’s always been remorseful from the start. I think at first she was in shock and didn’t know what to do and listened to others who didn’t understand the kind of damage she caused (toxic friend). She doesn't seem to care about grandpa anymore. I told her he might be getting fired and She didn't care she was more worried about us.

I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce. We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement. 

I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

All that's good and fine, but she can't unscrew grandpa. She is tainted goods now. Good for you for standing firm. Many a weaker men have taken their used up wives back after such a display, only to regret it.


----------



## Marc878

Good news on axing the OM. You could never have functioned well there with him around.

Inform his wife now.


----------



## farsidejunky

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> All that's good and fine, but she can't unscrew grandpa. She is tainted goods now.


This is a great example of what NOT to write about a wayward spouse.

Additionally, it is clear you have an agenda given these comments are in the face of her actually demonstrating remorse.


----------



## Marc878

Regret at what she has done to herself in this fiasco is not remorse.

That would be sorry for what she’s done to you and her family. She may not be remorseful at this time.

Divorce her and then see if she wants to win you back.

It depends on you. If it’s a dealbreaker nothing is going to fix this.

Don’t be a bitter guy 10-15 years from now wishing you hadn’t stayed


----------



## stro

That’s good man. I’m glad things are in motion. Your wife seems to be behaving respectably now. Bout time. Sounds like she is listening to wise counsel. At the very least maybe you can co-parent together without the drama divorce often brings. Would you consider reconciliation through divorce? Can she even be redeemed in your eyes?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

farsidejunky said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All that's good and fine, but she can't unscrew grandpa. She is tainted goods now.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a great example of what NOT to write about a wayward spouse.
> 
> Additionally, it is clear you have an agenda given these comments are in the face of her actually demonstrating remorse.
Click to expand...

Yea, I do have an agenda against taking a worthless cheating wife back. Funny how they always get the remorse after they get caught. Wise up.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk.
> 
> Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance. *Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan*. She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one. She does sound remorseful. I believe she’s always been remorseful from the start. I think at first she was in shock and didn’t know what to do and listened to others who didn’t understand the kind of damage she caused (toxic friend). She doesn't seem to care about grandpa anymore. I told her he might be getting fired and She didn't care she was more worried about us.
> 
> I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce. We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement.
> 
> I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


R would need to be your plan. What you need. She should have no control over those terms. 

She cheats and then draws up her plan for R????


----------



## turnera

So here's what you do now. You see a lawyer and set the divorce in motion. You give her her copy of it. Make sure it doesn't happen for at least 6 months. This will be the period during which you watch and wait and see if she DOES change. Do NOT take back the divorce papers. This is her ONE chance to make up for what she did and she needs to understand you WILL walk if she doesn't.


----------



## Cromer

I had/have a very remorseful XWW. There is no doubt that we could've reconciled if I'd been willing. But I wasn't for a number of reasons, most of which don't apply here. I would normally be against R but for some reason, this situation seems to be a good candidate. Steve, you have to do what you must, but part of me wants to say give her a chance, and I don't even know why exactly. It just feels like a good thing to try.


----------



## Beach123

How can you be sure she is only sorry now because she got caught? 

The blame is ONLY on her because she took those vows with you...not anyone else.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one.
> 
> 
> Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan.
> 
> I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce.
> 
> 
> We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement.
> 
> I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


Clear concise points here Steve. I'm trying to be as objective as possible.

1.You already knew she was lying. I guess she thought she could pull a fast one and get by with pissing on your boots and telling you it was raining.

2. That's mighty generous of her to set out plans for reconciliation. One little problem with that. It's your decision, and only yours. You are the transgressed, not the transgressor.

3.If you decide to reconcile then that is totally your decision, not hers.

4. Well that's awfully damned generous of her to have her parents lawyer to write up a "FAIR" settlement. Does she think you are incapable of finding a good lawyer for that purpose? I can only imagine what this settlement looks like. Hey, I have ocean front property in Montana for sale. (at this point, I'm starting to get pissed just reading this.)

5. Best news of your post. The POSOM has got to go. Glad he's getting the boot, one way or another. Now, go and notify his spouse. You would want to be notified if you were in her situation.

Conclusion.
Steve, you may think she's showing remorse. I am not about to try to dissuade you. I can say that from the outside looking in, it appears she's just trying to save her ass. This entire post was all about her, her, her. When is it ever going to be about you? Step back and look at this from an outside perspective, say about 20,000 feet and tell me what you see. If I was you, I would be so indignant I couldn't see straight.

Steve, you are doing great.
I am impressed with your testicular fortitude.
You got this. I support you 1000%.
Do your thing!


----------



## Suspicious1

Marc878 said:


> R would need to be your plan. What you need. She should have no control over those terms.
> 
> She cheats and then draws up her plan for R????


No worries her parent's lawyer will help finalise the divorce papers! Geesh we know who drives that train.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk.
> 
> Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance.



So, why did she say she had the A?

Did she blame you?


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk.
> 
> Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance. Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan. She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one. She does sound remorseful. I believe she’s always been remorseful from the start. I think at first she was in shock and didn’t know what to do and listened to others who didn’t understand the kind of damage she caused (toxic friend). She doesn't seem to care about grandpa anymore. I told her he might be getting fired and She didn't care she was more worried about us.
> 
> I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce. We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement.
> 
> I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


I am curious what could possibly be the reason for her to be so disloyal to you and disrespect you in front of so many people you know. Make sure you tell old dude's wife at some point. She needs to know. Maybe your wife should be the one to tell her on the phone with you listening. That would be a start. It may even give her an idea of what she did to this women. Your wife needs consequences. Just like a kid who does wrong. Divorce is another way she has that. It also gives you some power and self respect in the relationship moving forward. It forces her to earn you back, and gives you time and distance to decide if you even want that. 

Couple of things don't just go with her parents lawyer. You need an unbiased attorney not one that her parents pick. Her parents will try to protect her as they should, she is her daughter. As for your wife, she will need years of IC to learn why she was able to do such a horrible thing, being remorseful does not make her a good wife AT ALL! What she is asking from you is really a hard life. Not sure how old you are. *How old are you? * But you have your whole life ahead of you. There is still the possibility of having a relationship without so much baggage, and with someone who is loyal. The is a big world out there with women who would never even think of doing something like this. You both or perfectly capable of parenting your daughter separately. She can still have a healthy childhood. Plenty kids do now a days. This is not the 50s. Probably half the kids in the western world grow up and have grown up this way in the last 30 years. It's more important that she has at least one healthy and stable parent. Preferably a father who is not miserable. 

If it was me, I would divorce and separate. I would try to detach emotionally. Then I would decide what to do but NOT when I was not in the middle of such trauma and pain. Plus all you have right now are words from a proven liar. You are going to need years of action before it's wise to believe her again. Right now you are not thinking straight, and you need to get your equilibrium in your life. That is going to take time. Everything is different now, sadly the marriage as you knew it is dead, and the women you are married to is not who you thought. Get used to that first. Staying with her is not going back to your old marriage, that one is gone forever. The fastest way to heal is to remove your trigger, which for the foreseeable future will be your wife. Maybe then if she does the work, and you are up for it you can try again. Maybe when you heal you will decide you can do better. You can by the way, by a mile. 

Don't let her tears manipulate you into trying to protect her. You are no longer in that position anymore. She fired you. Remember when you were busy being her husband she was spending whole days with him on the weekend. You have not even had a true relationship with her in a long while. Also you have no idea who this women is, you should at the very least if you are thinking of staying ask for a polygraph. People who do this are very broken and lie a lot. They are very good at it because they usually have a lifetime of practice. Do not trust her words, only her actions.

Detach my friend. Draw up an agreement, and move out. Then see.

Look I am very sorry this happened to you, but it really has nothing to do with you. Your wife doesn't understand the first thing about love. She thinks love is what makes her feel good, which is a very transient way to think. But it also makes her very dangerous to be in love with. On top of that she doesn't really understand loyalty or have guilt for not being loyal. Not in the way you or I would. Being a women who is probably attractive she will have many chances to act on those feelings. Again she really was and is a trap. Unfortunately you had no idea and you feel in love with her. I suspect you are going to find out a whole hell of a lot more about her that you didn't know as well. Things that would probably had been red flags if you had known. 

Now can she change. Yes but it will take a lifetime of work, and in the end she will be like an alcoholic, which means she will have to learn new behaviors but the pitfalls will always be there. Maybe if she really gets it there is a chance, but that is probably years from now. 

You didn't cause this. It says nothing about you as a man or a husband. In fact if anything you have proved you can do it, which makes you valuable, you just need the right person. At worst your picker is broken, and you need to get some IC to see if that is so and also to help you heal. Finally I know it doesn't feel like it, but you WILL have joy again. Your life is not over. 

The lesson to get out of all this is, this will probably if not the worst, one of the worst times in your life. But if you can survive this you can survive anything. Use that to make you strong. Have courage. Believe. Move forward.


----------



## smi11ie

That’s a pretty good outcome from a terrible situation. I still think you need to inform the guy’s wife. At least the ball is in your court now. I would take your wife’s suggestion and take a little time. Possibily ask her to move out for a week or so. You can still proceed with the divorce as you have the option of stopping before it is final. You could also consider a post-nuptual agreement if you decide to reconcile.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> quick update about what I found on the VAR.
> 
> My wife didn’t call the OM directly but she did talk to a friend about me finding out. I’m sure who the friend was but I don’t really think that matters. Anyway during the conversation with her friend I was able confirm who the OM and it’s the grandpa. Which is sickening the guy has 30 plus years on her. I still can’t understand why him of all of all people. I’m also sure the affair is over maybe for a month or more going by the conversation. It would make sense given the phone calls stop showing up about month ago and the P.I also wasn’t able to find anything. That’s my next step is to figure when and why it end.


Did you ever find out who the toxic friend is?

Why does she think she cheated? How did it start?

When did it start and when did it end? 

Who ended it and why?


----------



## OutofRetirement

How are you Steve?

Somewhere I heard that ending a marriage is like a death, with the process of grief. You came here in denial, Do you all think my wife is cheating? I know she loves me and I don't think she would cheat, and then you listed maybe a dozen actions that basically showed there really was no doubt she was.

At one point you said you were angry.

At one point you said you were numb.

Now it seems you are reaching acceptance.

Outside of here, you've talked with your friend and his dad and you've gotten HUGE support from them. Anybody else supporting you in real life?

You mentioned I think a while back about feeling emasculated and implying you don't want people to know. Have you started feeling better about that aspect?


----------



## ButtPunch

Take your time SS.

You are in no rush to make any kind of decision.

Process your emotions before you do anything.


----------



## Gabriel

Steve, this really couldn't be going any better. Nice job. Get the OM axed, tell his wife.  Those are must dos.

As for your wife, nobody here feels what you are feeling. You may have gotten to a point of no return. But I agree with some of the other posters that say to SLOWLY move forward with the divorce. 

1) Tell your wife that the default position is divorce, you will move that direction.
2) Tell your wife that during the process you'll be processing a lot of emotions and if things start turning around you might suspend the divorce proceedings and try to work things out. But that you make no promises, and that may never happen. In the meantime you'll keep moving forward with the divorce.
3) Tell your wife that you are going to make sure the OM wife knows what happened and you will be making sure he resigns or is fired.

Many people don't realize that a divorce takes awhile and you can always stop it before it's final. Tell your wife this. Otherwise, she'll think that once the decision is made to proceed with it, there's no going back.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> This is a great example of what NOT to write about a wayward spouse.
> 
> Additionally, it is clear you have an agenda given these comments are in the face of her actually demonstrating remorse.


I might not have referred to her as “damaged goods” (and the age of the OM shouldn’t matter either way), but to me the decision is very simple:

PA = divorce

You’ve echoed that sentiment several times yourself.

Remorse is great and all, but all that would matter to me is that she physically gave herself to another guy — that’s THE line that shan’t be crossed.

Full stop.

@Scuba_Steve, just a thought: plenty of BS’s opt for divorce in the short term as a way to inflict consequences, protect assets, and test a WS’s commitment to the longer term goal of reconciliation. Obviously this requires having a WS that is sufficiently cooperative (especially in terms of drawing up an equitable divorce settlement). You can have rules in place like no dating others while divorced, etc — basically the idea is that, though divorced, you’re working to rebuild the foundation of your relationship so that you can one day remarry... with a solid pre-nup in place.

Unrelated thought: the note outlining her plans for reconciliation has a very Walter/Carrie feel to it.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba,
You said she wrote in the letter why she thinks it happened. Did she really fall in love with that old man? I just don’t understand that. Or was it a career move?
Glad the old fart is getting canned. I wonder if he had taken advantage of other women in the company in addition to your wife.
Hope you can figure it out.
If you stay together, married or divorced, you might let her know that you consider her to have voided your promises of sexual exclusivity. And if you ever encounter another woman that floats your boat (maybe a 70 year old one, haha) you will exercise your hall pass. Even if you would never actually do that, let her worry about that like you will worry about her cheating again. But maybe over time, you can rebuild trust.
In all this, please don’t forget your little girl, and what you believe is best for her.


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> I might not have referred to her as “damaged goods”, (and the age of the OM shouldn’t matter either way) but to me the decision is very simple:
> 
> PA = divorce
> 
> You’ve echoed that sentiment several times yourself.
> 
> Remorse is great and all, but all that would matter to me is that she physically gave herself to another guy — that’s THE line that shan’t be crossed.
> 
> Full stop.
> 
> @Scuba_Steve, just a thought: plenty of BS’s opt for divorce in the short term as a way to inflict consequences, protect assets, and test a WS’s commitment to the longer term goal of reconciliation. Obviously this requires having a WS that is sufficiently cooperative (especially in terms of drawing up an equitable divorce settlement). You can have rules in place like no dating others while divorced, etc — basically the idea is that, though divorced, you’re working to rebuild the foundation of your relationship so that you can one day remarry... with a solid pre-nup in place.
> 
> Unrelated thought: the note outlining her plans for reconciliation has a very Walter/Carrie feel to it.


I have. I will continue to do so. 

It wasn't about content. 

It was about tone.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk.
> 
> Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance. Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan. She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one. *She does sound remorseful*. I believe she’s always been remorseful from the start. I think at first she was in shock and didn’t know what to do and listened to others who didn’t understand the kind of damage she caused (toxic friend). She doesn't seem to care about grandpa anymore. I told her he might be getting fired and She didn't care she was more worried about us.
> 
> I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce. We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement.
> 
> I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


It is very difficult to differentiate remorse and regret for getting caught. 

Does her timeline jive with all her 'girls nights out', late coming home because of drinks after work etc? Did you press her on tattoo guy? Your first post was more concerned about him than anyone else. She seemed overly familiar with him, a flag for sure combined with all the other red flags. I am only mentioning these things because now is the time to push. If more garbage comes out later divorced or not it still will sting. 

Her reconciliation plan, the fact she brought it up and acted unilaterally by quitting is a good start. I am going to assume the rest of the plan is selfless. Otherwise why propose it. You may still decide to divorce but with less acrimony co-parenting will be easier. Now that she has confessed (to all you believe), is not defiant, is not blaming you and is acting regretful/remorseful whatever you decide to do will be easier going forward.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba


If you thought you were in hell before, wait until about a month from now. Truth is, you still love your wife very much, that’s normal, and as remorse sets in you will become conflicted. I always said I would divorce if cheated on, but then it happened to me, and it’s not as clear as you’d like it to be. I can only stress to you to do what is best for you, then your daughter, then your wife and marriage. Your financial situation will play a role in this, but remember you are young and will make that money back. What I’m saying is to not let money lost have a big impact on your decision, you being happy is what the big impact should be.

Many posters are going to say divorce, or reconcile, but only you can make this decision. Others besides myself have told you to wait six months, the reason is your emotions need to be settled. You can also gauge your wife during this time, see what her actions tell you, see if remorse does begin to settle in. The position you find yourself today to be in I once occupied, and it’s not a good place. On the contrary to your emotions, it is an excellent place to be to gauge your wife’s actions. To see if these actions are long term and not just a couple of months. If a physical affair is your dealbreaker, then I understand why you say this, but now that it happened your decision may change. What once was, may not be six months from now.


----------



## MattMatt

Scuba_Steve said:


> I talked to my wife last night. I think it was somewhat of a productive talk.
> 
> Before I had the talk with my wife, I read the letters she gave me. It was two letters the first one was mostly a sorry, why she thinks she had an affair and begging for a second chance. Second letter was more of a layout of her plan for reconciliation. Quitting her job is was part of that plan. She also put another time line and admitted to lying on the first one. She does sound remorseful. I believe she’s always been remorseful from the start. I think at first she was in shock and didn’t know what to do and listened to others who didn’t understand the kind of damage she caused (toxic friend). She doesn't seem to care about grandpa anymore. I told her he might be getting fired and She didn't care she was more worried about us.
> 
> I didn’t really change my mind. I still want a divorce. I told her as much. *I tried to talk about the divorce but she was crying non stop asking what she could do to prevent the divorce.* We couldn’t really talk in detail because of that. She did however send me text asking me to take the rest of the week to really think about it and if a divorce is still what I wanted she could have her parents lawyer write up a fair settlement.
> 
> I did talk to my friends dad. The OM is pretty much done. My friends dad wants to keep this quiet. He’s going to ask him to leave and resign on his own if he doesn’t he’s going to force him to do so.


Unless she knows Rocky and Bullwinkle, or Dr Who and can get them to tamper with the timeline and go back and stop herself from cheating, there's nothing she can do to prevent the divorce.


----------



## Hoosier

turnera said:


> So here's what you do now. You see a lawyer and set the divorce in motion. You give her her copy of it. Make sure it doesn't happen for at least 6 months. This will be the period during which you watch and wait and see if she DOES change. Do NOT take back the divorce papers. This is her ONE chance to make up for what she did and she needs to understand you WILL walk if she doesn't.


Exactly! Heck you can always reconcile even if you are divorced. Keep moving forward on the D!


----------



## ButtPunch

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> 
> If you thought you were in hell before, wait until about a month from now. Truth is, you still love your wife very much, that’s normal, and as remorse sets in you will become conflicted. I always said I would divorce if cheated on, but then it happened to me, and it’s not as clear as you’d like it to be. I can only stress to you to do what is best for you, then your daughter, then your wife and marriage. Your financial situation will play a role in this, but remember you are young and will make that money back. What I’m saying is to not let money lost have a big impact on your decision, you being happy is what the big impact should be.
> 
> Many posters are going to say divorce, or reconcile, but only you can make this decision. Others besides myself have told you to wait six months, the reason is your emotions need to be settled. You can also gauge your wife during this time, see what her actions tell you, see if remorse does begin to settle in. The position you find yourself today to be in I once occupied, and it’s not a good place. On the contrary to your emotions, it is an excellent place to be to gauge your wife’s actions. To see if these actions are long term and not just a couple of months. If a physical affair is your dealbreaker, then I understand why you say this, but now that it happened your decision may change. What once was, may not be six months from now.


This is about as good as it gets and I agree 100%.

Tell your wife you are 99% sure you want a divorce but you need time to let your emotions settle.

You can even start drawing the papers up.

DNA test the kids. Make her take a STD test. 

Consequences


----------



## BluesPower

*Let's all take a deep breath...*

Let's all take a deep breath...

To everyone, let's try to not get too excited and look at all of this logically. 

First off, I want what @Scuba_Steve wants, he is the one that gets to make that decision, not us, not his wife, not his wife's parents lawyer. 

But at the same time, I personally have an issue with those of us that think, THE TONE OF THE POST, AND NOT CALLING THE WW THE POS THAT SHE IS, is somehow bad or whatever. 

I understand, that most of those posting have been a victim of infidelity. Some of those people choose to reconcile, some did not. 

But I want you guys that choose to R to tell me that you are not triggered years later, that late at night the mind movies of your wife sleeping with another man or multiple men do not play in your head. 

I want you guys to tell me that deep down, so deep you won't even admit it on the internet, that you don't really fell like a man because you choose to R. You did not get to have wild monkey affair sex for months or years like your wife did. Tell me that still you know that she lied that the OM was not better in bed than you, maybe bigger. You know that she had some of the best sex in her life and that you will never be able to match that. You know that she is settling for you because you were the safe plan B guy, and the sex is meh... but you know it is what it is. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE LOVE OF HER LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE BEST SEX SHE EVER HAD. YOU KNOW YOU WERE WEAK TO TAKE HER BACK BUT YOU WERE SCARED. 

I want all of those people that are cheerleading for Steve to R to tell us all that you don't have SOME of those feeling in the above section. I will then call you a liar, and probably get banned. 

Steve has to decide if he can ever deal with the things above. But lets look at this affair, specifically. 

1) How long did it actually go on, a year, 6 months, 3 months? Does it really matter if it was anything past a ONS.

2) Steve is bothered by grandpa's age. Frankly he should be. I am a grandpa, I am 53, and guess what, I myself have screwed women like Steve's wife. Frankly a lot older men are far better in bed that most men half their age. So when she tells you that the sex was not that good, she is lying. 

And before anyone bangs on me for that, I was a POS, I know it. I don't do it anymore for a lot of reasons and that was a really dark time in my life. 

3) Everyone wants to say that she is remorseful, look... she slept outside his room, look... she quit her job. Guys, she is not in the least bit remorseful, and if she ever really will be, it will take years to get there. What Steve's wife is doing is panicking, she is in CYA mode, and save my marriage mode. She has barely had time to think about Steve's pain and humiliation if she has thought about it at all. 

And guess what, she quit her job because she does not have the balls to face all the people that either already know about the affair, or the ones that will find out about it. That is why she quit. 

REMORSE IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING THAN REGRET of getting caught. She wants her life back, and she wants what she thinks is her WEAK husband to take her back, so that her life will not be completely ruined. IT IS ALL ABOUT HER. 

4) Steve on the other hand, has pretty much handled this like a pro. He got strong quick, and he took care of business. And yet so many are saying...Give her a chance...Look she quit her job--- HOG WASH.

Why would you want Steve to give up the progress that he has made. He has her and the OM on the ropes. 

I diatribe is almost over. But I say to all that say, you guys should not be so bitter, get lost. I used to be bitter, but then I took that steps that Steve is taking and I am free of a POS wife that did not love me. I am doing super, actually could not be any better unless I won the lotto or something. 

Everyone that wants a happy ending, I want you to think what that could look like to different people. 

One way that it could look like is this: Steve divorces his WW, and does not get taken to the cleaners. And Steve starts running through a collection of hotties that are younger than his wife, hotter than she ever was, and better in bed than she could ever be on her best day. While Steve culls through his collection of hotness, Steve's wife is working a crap job and seeing all the beautiful women that her Ex H is banging, knowing she could never match up, and realizing what she lost. 

Eventually, Steve finds one that he likes well enough to marry, and he lives happily ever after. His Ex WW, however, is finally understanding what some of Steve's pain actually felt like, because she fells it now too. She realizes that she ruined her life, her home is forever broken and that she lost the best man that she ever knew because she was selfish and stupid. 

Wow, that sounds like a really happy ending, especially for @Scuba_Steve...


----------



## sokillme

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> It is very difficult to differentiate remorse and regret for getting caught.


Yeah the only thing that really shows it is long term consistency.


----------



## ButtPunch

I reconciled six years ago and I don't think any of that stuff.

My wife is now a better wife and mom than she ever was 
prior to cheating.

I am usually pro divorce.

In this case, I'm pro waiting and letting the emotions settle.


----------



## MyRevelation

Cromer said:


> I had/have a very remorseful XWW. There is no doubt that we could've reconciled if I'd been willing. But I wasn't for a number of reasons, most of which don't apply here. I would normally be against R but for some reason, this situation seems to be a good candidate. Steve, you have to do what you must, but part of me wants to say give her a chance, and I don't even know why exactly. It just feels like a good thing to try.


Here's why I think giving his WW another chance is a bad idea in this particular situation. If SS R's with his WW, then he will need to quit his job too. There is no way he can continue to work around people who would now know that he was Ring with a WW that screwed around with grandpa, because in just a few days, everyone in this company will KNOW that SS's WW and grandpa were having an A that cost them both their jobs and now SS would be labelled the cuckhold who took her back. R is hard enough, but put this particular fact set on top of all the rest and it becomes unworkable.


----------



## sokillme

*Re: Let's all take a deep breath...*



BluesPower said:


> Let's all take a deep breath...
> 
> To everyone, let's try to not get too excited and look at all of this logically.
> 
> First off, I want what @Scuba_Steve wants, he is the one that gets to make that decision, not us, not his wife, not his wife's parents lawyer.
> 
> But at the same time, I personally have an issue with those of us that think, THE TONE OF THE POST, AND NOT CALLING THE WW THE POS THAT SHE IS, is somehow bad or whatever.
> 
> I understand, that most of those posting have been a victim of infidelity. Some of those people choose to reconcile, some did not.
> 
> But I want you guys that choose to R to tell me that you are not triggered years later, that late at night the mind movies of your wife sleeping with another man or multiple men do not play in your head.
> 
> I want you guys to tell me that deep down, so deep you won't even admit it on the internet, that you don't really fell like a man because you choose to R. You did not get to have wild monkey affair sex for months or years like your wife did. Tell me that still you know that she lied that the OM was not better in bed than you, maybe bigger. You know that she had some of the best sex in her life and that you will never be able to match that. You know that she is settling for you because you were the safe plan B guy, and the sex is meh... but you know it is what it is. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE LOVE OF HER LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE BEST SEX SHE EVER HAD. YOU KNOW YOU WERE WEAK TO TAKE HER BACK BUT YOU WERE SCARED.
> 
> I want all of those people that are cheerleading for Steve to R to tell us all that you don't have SOME of those feeling in the above section. I will then call you a liar, and probably get banned.
> 
> Steve has to decide if he can ever deal with the things above. But lets look at this affair, specifically.
> 
> 1) How long did it actually go on, a year, 6 months, 3 months? Does it really matter if it was anything past a ONS.
> 
> 2) Steve is bothered by grandpa's age. Frankly he should be. I am a grandpa, I am 53, and guess what, I myself have screwed women like Steve's wife. Frankly a lot older men are far better in bed that most men half their age. So when she tells you that the sex was not that good, she is lying.
> 
> And before anyone bangs on me for that, I was a POS, I know it. I don't do it anymore for a lot of reasons and that was a really dark time in my life.
> 
> 3) Everyone wants to say that she is remorseful, look... she slept outside his room, look... she quit her job. Guys, she is not in the least bit remorseful, and if she ever really will be, it will take years to get there. What Steve's wife is doing is panicking, she is in CYA mode, and save my marriage mode. She has barely had time to think about Steve's pain and humiliation if she has thought about it at all.
> 
> And guess what, she quit her job because she does not have the balls to face all the people that either already know about the affair, or the ones that will find out about it. That is why she quit.
> 
> REMORSE IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING THAN REGRET of getting caught. She wants her life back, and she wants what she thinks is her WEAK husband to take her back, so that her life will not be completely ruined. IT IS ALL ABOUT HER.
> 
> 4) Steve on the other hand, has pretty much handled this like a pro. He got strong quick, and he took care of business. And yet so many are saying...Give her a chance...Look she quit her job--- HOG WASH.
> 
> Why would you want Steve to give up the progress that he has made. He has her and the OM on the ropes.
> 
> I diatribe is almost over. But I say to all that say, you guys should not be so bitter, get lost. I used to be bitter, but then I took that steps that Steve is taking and I am free of a POS wife that did not love me. I am doing super, actually could not be any better unless I won the lotto or something.
> 
> Everyone that wants a happy ending, I want you to think what that could look like to different people.
> 
> One way that it could look like is this: Steve divorces his WW, and does not get taken to the cleaners. And Steve starts running through a collection of hotties that are younger than his wife, hotter than she ever was, and better in bed than she could ever be on her best day. While Steve culls through his collection of hotness, Steve's wife is working a crap job and seeing all the beautiful women that her Ex H is banging, knowing she could never match up, and realizing what she lost.
> 
> Eventually, Steve finds one that he likes well enough to marry, and he lives happily ever after. His Ex WW, however, is finally understanding what some of Steve's pain actually felt like, because she fells it now too. She realizes that she ruined her life, her home is forever broken and that she lost the best man that she ever knew because she was selfish and stupid.
> 
> Wow, that sounds like a really happy ending, especially for @Scuba_Steve...


Even I think this is a little rough. It may have been better sex it may not. Some people can get over it some can't. I do like YOUR happy ending though.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> So here's what you do now. You see a lawyer and set the divorce in motion. You give her her copy of it. *Make sure it doesn't happen for at least 6 months.* This will be the period during which you watch and wait and see if she DOES change. Do NOT take back the divorce papers. This is her ONE chance to make up for what she did and she needs to understand you WILL walk if she doesn't.


I see this advice all the time, to wait at least 6 months. I absolutely disagree with it. Don't let anyone impose an artificial timeline on you. If you're sure you want to divorce, divorce. If you change your mind later _and she was worth keeping in the first place _you can always remarry. How do you know she was worth keeping in the first place? A start would be that she gives you a good deal in the divorce and stays loyal to you and pursues you after.



sokillme said:


> I am curious what could possibly be the reason for her to be so disloyal to you and disrespect you in front of so many people you know. Make sure you tell old dude's wife at some point. She needs to know. *Maybe your wife should be the one to tell her on the phone with you listening.* That would be a start. It may even give her an idea of what she did to this women. Your wife needs consequences. Just like a kid who does wrong. Divorce is another way she has that. It also gives you some power and self respect in the relationship moving forward. It forces her to earn you back, and gives you time and distance to decide if you even want that.
> 
> Couple of things don't just go with her parents lawyer. You need an unbiased attorney not one that her parents pick. Her parents will try to protect her as they should, she is her daughter. As for your wife, she will need years of IC to learn why she was able to do such a horrible thing, being remorseful does not make her a good wife AT ALL! What she is asking from you is really a hard life. Not sure how old you are. *How old are you? * But you have your whole life ahead of you. There is still the possibility of having a relationship without so much baggage, and with someone who is loyal. The is a big world out there with women who would never even think of doing something like this. You both or perfectly capable of parenting your daughter separately. She can still have a healthy childhood. Plenty kids do now a days. This is not the 50s. Probably half the kids in the western world grow up and have grown up this way in the last 30 years. It's more important that she has at least one healthy and stable parent. Preferably a father who is not miserable.
> 
> If it was me, I would divorce and separate. I would try to detach emotionally. Then I would decide what to do but NOT when I was not in the middle of such trauma and pain. Plus all you have right now are words from a proven liar. You are going to need years of action before it's wise to believe her again. Right now you are not thinking straight, and you need to get your equilibrium in your life. That is going to take time. Everything is different now, sadly the marriage as you knew it is dead, and the women you are married to is not who you thought. Get used to that first. Staying with her is not going back to your old marriage, that one is gone forever. The fastest way to heal is to remove your trigger, which for the foreseeable future will be your wife. Maybe then if she does the work, and you are up for it you can try again. Maybe when you heal you will decide you can do better. You can by the way, by a mile.
> 
> Don't let her tears manipulate you into trying to protect her. You are no longer in that position anymore. She fired you. Remember when you were busy being her husband she was spending whole days with him on the weekend. You have not even had a true relationship with her in a long while. Also you have no idea who this women is, you should at the very least if you are thinking of staying ask for a polygraph. People who do this are very broken and lie a lot. They are very good at it because they usually have a lifetime of practice. Do not trust her words, only her actions.
> 
> Detach my friend. Draw up an agreement, and move out. Then see.
> 
> Look I am very sorry this happened to you, but it really has nothing to do with you. Your wife doesn't understand the first thing about love. She thinks love is what makes her feel good, which is a very transient way to think. But it also makes her very dangerous to be in love with. On top of that she doesn't really understand loyalty or have guilt for not being loyal. Not in the way you or I would. Being a women who is probably attractive she will have many chances to act on those feelings. Again she really was and is a trap. Unfortunately you had no idea and you feel in love with her. I suspect you are going to find out a whole hell of a lot more about her that you didn't know as well. Things that would probably had been red flags if you had known.
> 
> Now can she change. Yes but it will take a lifetime of work, and in the end she will be like an alcoholic, which means she will have to learn new behaviors but the pitfalls will always be there. Maybe if she really gets it there is a chance, but that is probably years from now.
> 
> You didn't cause this. It says nothing about you as a man or a husband. In fact if anything you have proved you can do it, which makes you valuable, you just need the right person. At worst your picker is broken, and you need to get some IC to see if that is so and also to help you heal. Finally I know it doesn't feel like it, but you WILL have joy again. Your life is not over.
> 
> The lesson to get out of all this is, this will probably if not the worst, one of the worst times in your life. But if you can survive this you can survive anything. Use that to make you strong. Have courage. Believe. Move forward.


Great post, except the part in bold. I used to think that but we had a poll here several years ago about this topic and the consensus among betrayed wives was that it would infuriate them to have the OW call them. Better to have SS call her or get someone else to call her and give her the evidence.


----------



## ButtPunch

Nucking Futs said:


> I see this advice all the time, to wait at least 6 months. I absolutely disagree with it. Don't let anyone impose an artificial timeline on you. If you're sure you want to divorce, divorce. If you change your mind later _and she was worth keeping in the first place _you can always remarry. How do you know she was worth keeping in the first place? A start would be that she gives you a good deal in the divorce and stays loyal to you and pursues you after.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I agree with this too. However, he must be 100% sure that is what he wants.
> 
> Usually, this isn't the case with betrayed spouses and I for some reason don't get that feeling here


----------



## smi11ie

As you can see from the posts Steve, there is loads of stuff to think about. I had forgotton about tattoo guy. That suspicion alone probably warrants a polygraph. You will probably want her to give you a full timeline of what happened. You might also want to know about any and all other incidents regardless of how small and insignificant she deems them. If you reconcile you will need to learn to live with the paranoia.

There is a whole lot to think about. You will probably jump around between divorce and reconcile for quite a while. I think you should continue with the divorce for the time being.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

The plan is still to go through with the divorce. I’ve talked to lawyer she agrees with having her lawyer write up the settlement and I can send to her or another lawyer to revise it or add any changes. My lawyers reason is it could save us a lot time, money and I could potentially protect most of my assets. Simply having a wife willing to work on a divorce makes simpler and less expensive compared to one that’s fighting you for every little thing. 

According to my wife, the OM started paying extra attention to her last spring. He started first with complementing her work. It turned more personal with him telling her he liked how she dressed or how she did her hair that day. The OM with time became her confidant. Around August they became very close and in September the physical aspect of the affair started. During this time my wife felt she needed the OM for attention and validation.

I haven’t looked that the timeline only a quick glance. I don’t really care mostly because I still don’t believe her. She claims they only meet for sex 8 times and it was regrettable. I cant prove or disprove any of it. 

I plan on contacting the OM wife today or tomorrow.


----------



## bandit.45

Scuba_Steve said:


> The plan is still to go through with the divorce. I’ve talked to lawyer she agrees with having her lawyer write up the settlement and I can send to her or another lawyer to revise it or add any changes. My lawyers reason is it could save us a lot time, money and I could potentially protect most of my assets. Simply having a wife willing to work on a divorce makes simpler and less expensive compared to one that’s fighting you for every little thing.
> 
> _According to my wife, the OM started paying extra attention to her last spring. He started first with complementing her work. It turned more personal with him telling her he liked how she dressed or how she did her hair that day. The OM with time became her confidant. Around August they became very close and in September the physical aspect of the affair started. During this time my wife felt she needed the OM for attention and validation._
> 
> I haven’t looked that the timeline only a quick glance. I don’t really care mostly because I still don’t believe her. She claims they only meet for sex 8 times and it was regrettable. I cant prove or disprove any of it.
> 
> I plan on contacting the OM wife today or tomorrow.


Yep, nothing special here. Just a run of the mill affair. 

I'm glad you have set your course and following through. 

So are you considering dating her after D and seeing if there is anything left to salvage?


----------



## ABHale

So she is actually going to her parents and basically admitting she had an affair. She would have to when she tells them she needs their lawyer. 

Using the family lawyer to draw up the settlement. 

She is definitely getting help. She is doing everything that needs to be done with out even being asked to do so by Steve. 

Steve has cut out the toxic friend as well?

I would still proceed with the divorce. But if you want to R afterwards you need to give some hope about that when needed. You also need to explain that your marriage is over because of her actions and you need time to heal. Then down the road the two of you can try dating again and see if it what you had can be rekindled. 

Steve your wife is one of maybe 2 I think have been truly remorseful. Maybe I am mistaken, I don’t know really. If our roles were reversed I would try and fix things after the divorce.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
Great to hear you talked with the wife.
nothing to fear in doing so anymore?
I must say she honestly thought 
she could decide what the plan 
going forward was going to be
Really?
And to offer her lawyer?
Really?
You are the one in charge now Steve.
Do what you want and what is best for you.

You are doing what is best for you and 
it shows. Taking care of those (Friends)
close and loyal to you. I commend you
for that. She obviously has lost a very
good man. Take care sir!!


----------



## Chuck71

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> 
> If you thought you were in hell before, wait until about a month from now. Truth is, you still love your wife very much, that’s normal, and as remorse sets in you will become conflicted. I always said I would divorce if cheated on, but then it happened to me, and it’s not as clear as you’d like it to be. I can only stress to you to do what is best for you, then your daughter, then your wife and marriage. Your financial situation will play a role in this, but remember you are young and will make that money back. What I’m saying is to not let money lost have a big impact on your decision, you being happy is what the big impact should be.
> 
> Many posters are going to say divorce, or reconcile, but only you can make this decision. Others besides myself have told you to wait six months, the reason is your emotions need to be settled. You can also gauge your wife during this time, see what her actions tell you, see if remorse does begin to settle in. The position you find yourself today to be in I once occupied, and it’s not a good place. On the contrary to your emotions, it is an excellent place to be to gauge your wife’s actions. To see if these actions are long term and not just a couple of months. If a physical affair is your dealbreaker, then I understand why you say this, but now that it happened your decision may change. What once was, may not be six months from now.


Steve...... Listen to what Drifting On is saying. The opinions I give today, are I guess the ones Drifting On was giving.... before his WW had the affair. You can't say you know it, until you experience it. For me.... I have never been in a R. I've had a couple that didn't last but a week or two.....they thought just showing up was all they had to do. So I really have no experience. So then Chuck, WTF are you here?

I know the pain..... pain is not prejudice. I still say I would D her in the way I have mentioned several times. But it's really not much different than what other posters have told you. I just think the D has to happen because the cheating, killed "this M." If she shows all the signs the other posters are mentioning, start dating the afternoon the D is final. 

To me.... and again, I've never participated in one, the consequences of an affair is a D. This shows there are reprocutions to her actions. And R without a D... seems as if one is letting the guilty party off the hook. My parents were "retreads," as pop termed it, M, D 30 days later, re-M couple years later. They always celebrated their 1st ann. though, not the 2nd. 

Steve.... how would you feel about all this, if the two of you had not had any kids yet? Would you see this differently? The reason the affair started, may weigh in on your decision. Workplace affairs are very common. Chances are.... others knew about it. And your W wasn't the first. Therefore.... your W could have knew about these affairs and was next on his list of "conquests." All I am saying is, if she knew about them and decided to be a participant too..... that would lean me out the door a lot faster, if I was even considering to R, AFTER the D is final.


----------



## sa58

Steve 
Thought for your wife

I guess what shined so brightly in the dark.
Look's dual and tarnished in the light


----------



## Windwalker

Gabriel said:


> As for your wife, nobody here feels what you are feeling.


Total, complete, and utter BS. That implies that empathy is not possible and that no one else has ever had to deal with infidelity.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> The plan is still to go through with the divorce. I’ve talked to lawyer she agrees with having her lawyer write up the settlement and I can send to her or another lawyer to revise it or add any changes. My lawyers reason is it could save us a lot time, money and I could potentially protect most of my assets. Simply having a wife willing to work on a divorce makes simpler and less expensive compared to one that’s fighting you for every little thing.
> 
> According to my wife, the OM started paying extra attention to her last spring. He started first with complementing her work. It turned more personal with him telling her he liked how she dressed or how she did her hair that day. The OM with time became her confidant. Around August they became very close and in September the physical aspect of the affair started. During this time my wife felt she needed the OM for attention and validation.
> 
> I haven’t looked that the timeline only a quick glance. I don’t really care mostly because I still don’t believe her. She claims they only meet for sex 8 times and it was regrettable. I cant prove or disprove any of it.
> 
> I plan on contacting the OM wife today or tomorrow.


Stick to your decisions. One thing that sticks out is when you tried to walk up behind her that

evening and give her a hug.....and she pushed you away. That was during the A, or their "separation"

So Steve was NOT #1 for a period of time. Will Steve be #1 now that she wants R? Of course...

But will Steve be #1 in 9 months / 18 months? The sex 8 times regrettable? But they were good enough

for her to leave Steve in the "deep freeze." A healthy woman / M woman would have cut him off

110% when he was complimenting her on her dress and hair.

I still think there is a lot not told. Stay strong Steve.


----------



## wilson

One positive thing I sense is that even if you split, you will likely be amicable to each other. That will have a hugely positive influence on your daughter's life. It's tragic what happened, but I think things will work out well no matter which path you take forward.


----------



## MyRevelation

wilson said:


> One positive thing I sense is that even if you split, you will likely be amicable to each other. That will have a hugely positive influence on your daughter's life. It's tragic what happened, but I think things will work out well no matter which path you take forward.


I'm guessing you've never been D'd, because in my experience ... divorce and amicable ... are not compatible situations, especially in cases of betrayal. If it is like most, they will not "co-parent", as that just perpetuates the tension/resentment, but will parent separately with minimal interactions during exchanges.


----------



## Chuck71

Marc878 said:


> Regret at what she has done to herself in this fiasco is not remorse.
> 
> That would be sorry for what she’s done to you and her family. She may not be remorseful at this time.
> 
> Divorce her and then see if she wants to win you back.
> 
> It depends on you. If it’s a dealbreaker nothing is going to fix this.
> 
> Don’t be a bitter guy 10-15 years from now wishing you hadn’t stayed


And Steve..... question..... Had the A ended and you never found out, would she have ever told you?


----------



## drifting on

*Re: Let's all take a deep breath...*



BluesPower said:


> Let's all take a deep breath...
> 
> To everyone, let's try to not get too excited and look at all of this logically.
> 
> First off, I want what @Scuba_Steve wants, he is the one that gets to make that decision, not us, not his wife, not his wife's parents lawyer.
> 
> But at the same time, I personally have an issue with those of us that think, THE TONE OF THE POST, AND NOT CALLING THE WW THE POS THAT SHE IS, is somehow bad or whatever.
> 
> I understand, that most of those posting have been a victim of infidelity. Some of those people choose to reconcile, some did not.
> 
> But I want you guys that choose to R to tell me that you are not triggered years later, that late at night the mind movies of your wife sleeping with another man or multiple men do not play in your head.
> 
> I want you guys to tell me that deep down, so deep you won't even admit it on the internet, that you don't really fell like a man because you choose to R. You did not get to have wild monkey affair sex for months or years like your wife did. Tell me that still you know that she lied that the OM was not better in bed than you, maybe bigger. You know that she had some of the best sex in her life and that you will never be able to match that. You know that she is settling for you because you were the safe plan B guy, and the sex is meh... but you know it is what it is. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE LOVE OF HER LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE BEST SEX SHE EVER HAD. YOU KNOW YOU WERE WEAK TO TAKE HER BACK BUT YOU WERE SCARED.
> 
> I want all of those people that are cheerleading for Steve to R to tell us all that you don't have SOME of those feeling in the above section. I will then call you a liar, and probably get banned.
> 
> Steve has to decide if he can ever deal with the things above. But lets look at this affair, specifically.
> 
> 1) How long did it actually go on, a year, 6 months, 3 months? Does it really matter if it was anything past a ONS.
> 
> 2) Steve is bothered by grandpa's age. Frankly he should be. I am a grandpa, I am 53, and guess what, I myself have screwed women like Steve's wife. Frankly a lot older men are far better in bed that most men half their age. So when she tells you that the sex was not that good, she is lying.
> 
> And before anyone bangs on me for that, I was a POS, I know it. I don't do it anymore for a lot of reasons and that was a really dark time in my life.
> 
> 3) Everyone wants to say that she is remorseful, look... she slept outside his room, look... she quit her job. Guys, she is not in the least bit remorseful, and if she ever really will be, it will take years to get there. What Steve's wife is doing is panicking, she is in CYA mode, and save my marriage mode. She has barely had time to think about Steve's pain and humiliation if she has thought about it at all.
> 
> And guess what, she quit her job because she does not have the balls to face all the people that either already know about the affair, or the ones that will find out about it. That is why she quit.
> 
> REMORSE IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING THAN REGRET of getting caught. She wants her life back, and she wants what she thinks is her WEAK husband to take her back, so that her life will not be completely ruined. IT IS ALL ABOUT HER.
> 
> 4) Steve on the other hand, has pretty much handled this like a pro. He got strong quick, and he took care of business. And yet so many are saying...Give her a chance...Look she quit her job--- HOG WASH.
> 
> Why would you want Steve to give up the progress that he has made. He has her and the OM on the ropes.
> 
> I diatribe is almost over. But I say to all that say, you guys should not be so bitter, get lost. I used to be bitter, but then I took that steps that Steve is taking and I am free of a POS wife that did not love me. I am doing super, actually could not be any better unless I won the lotto or something.
> 
> Everyone that wants a happy ending, I want you to think what that could look like to different people.
> 
> One way that it could look like is this: Steve divorces his WW, and does not get taken to the cleaners. And Steve starts running through a collection of hotties that are younger than his wife, hotter than she ever was, and better in bed than she could ever be on her best day. While Steve culls through his collection of hotness, Steve's wife is working a crap job and seeing all the beautiful women that her Ex H is banging, knowing she could never match up, and realizing what she lost.
> 
> Eventually, Steve finds one that he likes well enough to marry, and he lives happily ever after. His Ex WW, however, is finally understanding what some of Steve's pain actually felt like, because she fells it now too. She realizes that she ruined her life, her home is forever broken and that she lost the best man that she ever knew because she was selfish and stupid.
> 
> Wow, that sounds like a really happy ending, especially for @Scuba_Steve...





So much to say about this post, I’m not sure I have that much time. Blues I’ve read your posts, agreed with many, but just can’t get behind it. It also has provoked a response that I feel is necessary to respond with. Scuba’s situation is for him to decide, on that you are correct, and I support what the OP wants. I support them regardless if I think they are wrong or right, I provide opinions that are mine. The OP can read my post and decide for themselves if my opinion or advice is worthy for them to consider. I did this when I came here, I took what pertained to me and discard the rest. I am appreciative to all that took time from their life to respond. I appreciate the time you have taken to respond in threads, regardless if I agree or disagree with your post. 

In this post you tell everyone to breathe and take a step back, I agree with this too, you then end with a fairy tale. You asked that we look at this logically, and end with scuba giving himself away to younger women. What if being intimate is more then that with scuba? In a way you are telling scuba to be as free with himself about sex as his wife was. That just boggles my mind. 

You want people who have reconciled to answer what you wrote in a paragraph, then say you will just call them liars unless they agree with you. Because if they don’t agree with you they’re lying, pretty presumptuous of you, don’t you think? You could also say it’s a strong arm move of coercion by saying you will call them liars for disagreeing with you. A big part of this board is to get multiple opinions, different perceptions to a situation that maybe because you are in you can’t see all that is happening. You see those who reconciled as weak and scared, yet you have to be incredibly strong to reconcile. Perhaps I should say that all who divorce are weak because they don’t have the strength to reconcile. Or they divorced that they are scared to self reflect and do some hard work on themselves. How about scuba does what is best for him, divorce or reconcile, after all, he can’t be happy living through another person. 

In points one and two above I agree that scuba needs to decide this. On point three, I think remorse is beginning to start its way in, but she does need to reach a far more remorseful point. In point four, I have advised to move the divorce forward, but not make his decision for six months. Scuba can do as he wishes with this advice, but in no way is he giving up progress. I have also advised for him to expose to OMW, again this will not affect scuba’s progress. My advice to scuba is to make a decision based on a position of strength, when his emotions have settled. Again no progress taken away. I have offered opinions on reconciliation, but I wouldn’t say they are at a cheerleader level. 

The last point I’ll touch on, you say you were a POS yourself. I’m assuming having sex with married women and being an OM yourself. This was during a self described dark time in your life. You changed for a multitude of reasons and no longer say you are a POS. Would the families that were affected by your actions say the same? Would the children of those families destroyed? I can’t answer that and frankly neither can you. What’s done is done, so do I say a leopard can’t change his spots? Or do I say people can change, becoming a better person, become a healthy and safe spouse again? In your own words you used to be a POS, which means scuba’s wife can be too. Unless change is only applicable to you and all waywards remain a POS. I think they can change, my wife has, as have many who contribute to these boards.


----------



## wilson

MyRevelation said:


> I'm guessing you've never been D'd, because in my experience ... divorce and amicable ... are not compatible situations, especially in cases of betrayal. If it is like most, they will not "co-parent", as that just perpetuates the tension/resentment, but will parent separately with minimal interactions during exchanges.


They may not be friends, but I get the sense that they won't be disparaging each other or using their daughter as leverage. There are plenty of divorces where they are filled with anger and try to get the kids on their side. I'm not getting the sense that would happen here. You're right that they won't be doing things like having vacations all together, but hopefully the daughter would get to grow up in an environment where she feels loved in both households.


----------



## stro

Dang I hate to hear that. If true, he targeted her, groomed her and eventually got what he wanted. Not that it takes away from her responsibility in this, but there is a playbook out there on how to seduce a married woman. He’s probably pretty good at it. I hope you make him hurt badly. And I hope you and your wife can go forward amicably no matter what the nature of your relationship.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

stro said:


> Dang I hate to hear that. If true, he targeted her, groomed her and eventually got what he wanted. Not that it takes away from her responsibility in this, but there is a playbook out there on how to seduce a married woman. He’s probably pretty good at it. I hope you make him hurt badly. And I hope you and your wife can go forward amicably no matter what the nature of your relationship.


Yes, but still her fault, like you said. My wife would have kept her boundaries and even complained to me about the guy who was bothering her at work. Maybe Steve's wife can become that kind of woman someday.


----------



## ABHale

Only time will tell what Steve decides to do. A lot of healing on his side and soul searching on his wife part for why and how she threw her family away. 

This is Steve’s decision on how he goes forward. I have seen others in this and other forums R after one of the SO cheats. 99% I would say divorce and never look back. Even some of the so called success stories on TAM. I think I have made it clear on those threads what I thought at the time. 

But it doesn’t matter what I think or say in this and other threads. It is up to to BS if they want to stay or go. 

Steve what ever you decide you will find happiness again. let us know how it goes informing the family. They need to know so they can help support during this time.


----------



## stro

Tatsuhiko said:


> stro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dang I hate to hear that. If true, he targeted her, groomed her and eventually got what he wanted. Not that it takes away from her responsibility in this, but there is a playbook out there on how to seduce a married woman. He’s probably pretty good at it. I hope you make him hurt badly. And I hope you and your wife can go forward amicably no matter what the nature of your relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but still her fault, like you said. My wife would have kept her boundaries and even complained to me about the guy who was bothering her at work. Maybe Steve's wife can become that kind of woman someday.
Click to expand...

yeah I agree, her fault as well. I just despise men like that. Probing defenses until he finds and opening and then actively pursues a married woman. A woman who perhaps otherwise would never have cheated on her husband if the guy hadn’t broken her down. And some men who are pros at this can make a otherwise faithful woman faulter. While understand, ALSO HER FAULT. I just can’t stand predators like that.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> The plan is still to go through with the divorce. I’ve talked to lawyer she agrees with having her lawyer write up the settlement and I can send to her or another lawyer to revise it or add any changes. My lawyers reason is it could save us a lot time, money and I could potentially protect most of my assets. Simply having a wife willing to work on a divorce makes simpler and less expensive compared to one that’s fighting you for every little thing.
> 
> According to my wife, the OM started paying extra attention to her last spring. He started first with complementing her work. It turned more personal with him telling her he liked how she dressed or how she did her hair that day. The OM with time became her confidant. Around August they became very close and in September the physical aspect of the affair started. During this time my wife felt she needed the OM for attention and validation.
> 
> I haven’t looked that the timeline only a quick glance. I don’t really care mostly because I still don’t believe her. She claims they only meet for sex 8 times and it was regrettable. I cant prove or disprove any of it.
> 
> I plan on contacting the OM wife today or tomorrow.


Again when you look at that it really didn't take much. Something is wrong here, she is broken. What of her family, you, or her child's father, she discarded all of that like it was garbage? Not everyone could behave in such terrible way. As I have said she is going to have men chasing her everyday like all women. There are always going to be men who have some attractive qualities that you don't. Without loyalty she is just not safe. None of this makes her a good choice, in fact for now at least she is dangerous. Sadly. 

How old are you? How old is she? 

You have a long life ahead of you, that is long time to be dealing with someone like your wife. 

I hate to say this as well, DNA test you kid just to be safe.


----------



## sokillme

stro said:


> Dang I hate to hear that. If true, he targeted her, groomed her and eventually got what he wanted. Not that it takes away from her responsibility in this, but there is a playbook out there on how to seduce a married woman. He’s probably pretty good at it. I hope you make him hurt badly. And I hope you and your wife can go forward amicably no matter what the nature of your relationship.


Always when it is women the idea is that she is passively groomed. Maybe she liked it and thought of him as powerful. OP said this is not his first rodeo maybe the girls in the office were competing for his affections because of his position. The idea that she was seduced is really a kind of old fashion idea that doesn't give women enough credit. I am tired of this, women suck just as much as men, they want to have affairs just as much as men. Can we stop with this idea that they are delicate flowers who fall all over themselves when a powerful man says they look nice. They can be just as cunning as men. If you don't believe me go read the affair threads on Reddit. Thinking this way leaves you exposed to abuse. 

SHE IS NO VICTIM. Her role as his wife was to protect him, her child and her family. That is what she signed up for. A few "you look nice today"s shouldn't change that and if it dose then she is so pathetic she should have never been married. If she is that vulnerable to being groomed then how can we even decided if she got married of her own free will? If this is really true then she should not be married to anyone.


----------



## sokillme

stro said:


> yeah I agree, her fault as well. I just despise men like that. Probing defenses until he finds and opening and then actively pursues a married woman. A woman who perhaps otherwise would never have cheated on her husband if the guy hadn’t broken her down. And some men who are pros at this can make a otherwise faithful woman faulter. While understand, ALSO HER FAULT. I just can’t stand predators like that.


I don't believe this at all, in fact I think it make women seem like children. Read my other post. There are cheaters and not cheaters, if someone needs to be in a safe room in order to not cheat then they will eventual cheat. Women get hit on every day all day long.


----------



## sa58

He knew she was married but so did she !!
She knew he was married but so did he.!!
Simple- They both knew it was wrong!!
I only think about the innocent people,
Steve, Om wife,kids Look at the turmoil
and pain OM and her have caused,

co-parenting Steve gets to see his daughter
any negative affects from her or anything I
have confidence Steve can and will handle it.

In co-parenting there are also other family members
Grand Parents for example. My son and his ex rarely
speak but when it comes to his child she is queen
of his life now. He lives his life dates and works 
but she is always first

I agree with you AB Hale sounds like someone is coaching her.
Maybe toxic friend or maybe her mother. I think Steve said she 
had been married and divorced 5 times. 

Get her settlement to your lawyer quickly Steve
something tells me she may change her mind soon.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Waiting 6 months is worthless advise. The guy says he intends to divorce, what do you think waiting 6 months is going to accomplish? Maybe she will figure out a way to unscrew grandpa? Maybe 6 months will calm him down so he can settle for a 'less than' marriage with a wife that couldn't honor the most simple and straightforward of vows- dont ride another man's ****. 

The guy got screwed. There is an imbalance and always will be. Nothing short of divorce ends that imbalance. His wife proved she can't be faithful, end of story. His wife doesn't want it to end, so sad.

He will bounce back and find a good woman, a better woman, a younger and hotter woman. Why should I cheer for him to stay with a POS WW? He will just end up miserable. Consequences.


----------



## stro

I don’t think she was a victim. Doesn’t take away from the fact that the man who seeks out married women is a predator. And he is despised.


----------



## Chuck71

Steve... a D does not mean forever. It does end the previous. There is nothing wrong with getting a D

and living apart for..... a year or two. Meaning only co-parenting. I went back with my 1st and 2nd love,

my HS and college sweethearts. Each time.... we got back together too soon and, I regretted

it later. If you try any type of R too soon, you may too.... feel that way. When I caught up with my

first two loves after my D and post-D LTR, we talked a lot. I easily remembered why I fell for

them.... some 25-30 years ago. But I also saw why it was correct to never accept them back in my life.

I could have been, the husbands they cheated on, or the husband who pays CS religiously but she lets 

him see his son "when she feels like it." Some things aren't meant to last forever...... and we have to move on.

But your decision should be one long thought out...... no fav dinners, no let-me-throw-you-down-

and-ravage-you-sex. You can not make this decision.... with someone begging you to stay......

especially when you are not sure she is telling the whole truth or the truth I am willing to tell you.

A clean D in your favor..... just might sway you to think a bit longer about..... maybe. But above all else,

you have to know the full truth. Again I am just telling you what I would do, and no I have not walked

in your shoes. I wouldn't want to, if I could avoid it.


----------



## sokillme

stro said:


> I don’t think she was a victim. Doesn’t take away from the fact that the man who seeks out married women is a predator. And he is despised.


I agree completely with that but I think there are women who seek out the attention of men married or not and OP's wife may very well be one of them. There are people who are broken and just plain lost and everything is how they feel at the moment. And there are women who George Clooney himself would give them attention and while they may like it they would not brake the bond with their husband, but the husband may break the bond if he treats her wrong. Finally there are people who won't cheat because it's wrong, and it has nothing to do with there situation and who there husband is or what he does, it has to do with who THEY are and who they they want to be. The last one is the one you want.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

wilson said:


> One positive thing I sense is that even if you split, you will likely be amicable to each other. That will have a hugely positive influence on your daughter's life. It's tragic what happened, but I think things will work out well no matter which path you take forward.


I hope so

At least for our daughter sake. My wife is a good mom so we should be able to work it out.


----------



## Thor

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to lawyer she agrees with having her lawyer write up the settlement and I can send to her or another lawyer to revise it or add any changes. My lawyers reason is it could save us a lot time, money and I could potentially protect most of my assets. Simply having a wife willing to work on a divorce makes simpler and less expensive compared to one that’s fighting you for every little thing.


Yes, that is good advice. The longer it drags out the more likely it is she will get greedy. Somebody will advise her to go for the jugular. She may start to feel angry and decide to get her pound of flesh.

My xw wanted the divorce right f'n now. I ended up with a bit more than 50% of the assets and no alimony. In my state in our circumstances that is unheard of. Had we fought it out neither one of us would have had as good a deal in the end, as I was prepared to fight to the last penny against alimony.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> I hope so
> 
> At least for our daughter sake. My wife is a good mom so we should be able to work it out.


How old are both of you?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

sokillme said:


> How old are both of you?


Both of us are in our earlier 30's 

Our daughter is 2 going on 3.


----------



## skerzoid

This is a run-of-the-mill story of betrayal. I do not see anything here that is unique on Steve's side or Mrs. Steve's side.

An at-work affair between a boss and an ambitious woman. He takes her under his wing as a father figure and eventually it becomes sexual. 

The husband discovers the affair. He shows strength, courage, and decisiveness. This new found strength opens his wife's eyes to what she has done.

The wife sees that she has destroyed her family for no good reason and has her "OMG what have I done!" moment. She becomes desperate to save her marriage & family, not realizing that she has already destroyed it, probably beyond repair.

However, the husband sees her betrayal as a deal breaker, and is determined to divorce her. His heart is hardened to her begging, and, encouraged by some of his counselors, facilitates the divorce at hyper speed, using his stbxw's devastation to protect his assets. 

Case closed, wrapped up with wrapping paper, with a nice bow on top. 

They go their separate ways, never seeing each other again. They both remarry and live happily ever after.

Oh I forgot, Steve's 2 year old daughter..... Hmm. What does the old crystal ball predict here? Well what bad could happen? I mean Steve will get to have a lot of time with her seeings as they live in the City, County, & State of New York, and we all know that they go out of their way to protect a husband's rights. Steve will be able to protect her, maybe even half of the time from all of the people that will come into his stbxw's life now! 

What a great deal! On the other hand, Steve's gonna be so busy with all the cool new women in his life, maybe he won't be distracted by stuff like this. Why, Mrs. Steve might just find a really great guy, and he can become a really great father to Steve's daughter. Maybe he will become the Father Figure in her life. 

After all, Steve will probably remarry and have kids with his new wife, and she being protective will probably try discourage Steve from having a lot of contact with his his old family.

I can see it now, 20 years from now, Steve's daughter is getting married and she has to chose who will walk her down the isle. Won't that be fun?

Yeah, a quick divorce is a great deal for Steve. Being full of rage, he can see really clearly now, right? Why try to take time to explore his options?


----------



## skerzoid

Another thing sticking in my craw;

How many times did Steve say she didn't do anything to try to show regret? 

How many times do some people complain that "She isn't doing anything to try to do the "Hard work"? 

How many times do we hear a BS say, "I'm not going to show her what she needs to do to get to "R", thats her job"?

How many times do we hear, "She refuses to quit her job so she's still in the 'A'?"

So, Mrs Steve quits her job, begs for reconciliation, and presents a plan of action in writing of what she is going to do to try to reconcile. And some of you are "How DARE HER!" "Oh, so now she wants to have a plan of 'R'. How nice of her!" "Ditch the *****!"

Looks to me like some of you really, really, really are determined to bring it to a divorce.

What we should be doing is trying to get Steve and his family out of infidelity. If Steve chooses divorce, Great! If he chooses reconciliation Great! I say lay off the pressure for either.


----------



## re16

skerzoid said:


> What we should be doing is trying to get Steve and his family out of infidelity. If Steve chooses divorce, Great! If he chooses reconciliation Great! I say lay off the pressure for either.


Active infidelity is over for Steve (at least for now). I only wish that I had others open my eyes to the potential pitfalls of R prior to my R (actually rugsweep that came back to bite me years later). I think Steve needs to hear what can happen. Of course he can choose what to do on his own, *but he needs to be warned*.


----------



## Malaise

Scuba_Steve said:


> I hope so
> 
> At least for our daughter sake. My wife is a good mom so we should be able to work it out.


Sorry to disagree Steve but a woman who knowingly did something she knew could break up her family and bring pain to her child is not a good mom.

No matter how many cookies she bakes or bedtime stories she reads.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve 

If she is going to use her family lawyer then I
assume her mother and father will know or 
maybe already know what is going on. 
What about your family do they know?
What ever you choose to do,other 
family members (father, mother)
your daughters grand parents 
are involved.

Extended family can offer a lot of support
for you and your daughter.


----------



## sokillme

skerzoid said:


> Another thing sticking in my craw;
> 
> How many times did Steve say she didn't do anything to try to show regret?
> 
> How many times do some people complain that "She isn't doing anything to try to do the "Hard work"?
> 
> How many times do we hear a BS say, "I'm not going to show her what she needs to do to get to "R", thats her job"?
> 
> How many times do we hear, "She refuses to quit her job so she's still in the 'A'?"
> 
> So, Mrs Steve quits her job, begs for reconciliation, and presents a plan of action in writing of what she is going to do to try to reconcile. And some of you are "How DARE HER!" "Oh, so now she wants to have a plan of 'R'. How nice of her!" "Ditch the *****!"
> 
> Looks to me like some of you really, really, really are determined to bring it to a divorce.
> 
> What we should be doing is trying to get Steve and his family out of infidelity. If Steve chooses divorce, Great! If he chooses reconciliation Great! I say lay off the pressure for either.


Remorse is not a good reason to R. Remorse is only a requirement.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Again Steve, what was the reason she gave for having the affair with this particular old POSOM? How could she be attracted to him ? And how did it start and how did it end ? Who initiated and who ended it ? Very important to get a handle on this.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Both of us are in our earlier 30's
> 
> Our daughter is 2 going on 3.


Plenty of time to find the right women.


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> Remorse is not a good reason to R. Remorse is only a requirement.




How true this statement is, which actually reminds me of a thread, I think part of the title was “even if the wayward is doing everything right”. I’m hoping someone remembers this thread and can link it for scuba. It’s a thread about the wayward doing everything right and the hardships and trial of reconciliation. If anyone remembers this thread can you link it for scuba, or give the correct title?


----------



## Gabriel

Windwalker said:


> Total, complete, and utter BS. That implies that empathy is not possible and that no one else has ever had to deal with infidelity.


I'm sorry. Are you there? Are you in his house? Did you live his marriage with him? Do you work at that company? Do you have his same daughter and their relationship?

All we can do is relate the best we can. But we do NOT feel what he, specifically feels, dude. yeah, many of us here can relate to being cheated on. Of course. I'm not saying we can't. But it's pretty smug of us to say we know exactly how Steve feels, given his situation. We don't.


----------



## Windwalker

Gabriel said:


> I'm sorry. Are you there? Are you in his house? Did you live his marriage with him? Do you work at that company? Do you have his same daughter and their relationship?
> 
> All we can do is relate the best we can. But we do NOT feel what he, specifically feels, dude. yeah, many of us here can relate to being cheated on. Of course. I'm not saying we can't. But it's pretty smug of us to say we know exactly how Steve feels, given his situation. We don't.


7 billion people on this planet and all of a sudden everyone is a special snowflake. Every single one of them has original ideas, thoughts and emotions. Gotcha. 

7 billion people and not a single one has ever went through almost exactly the same thing Steve has went through?

I could go on and on and on, but I'll be wasting my time. 

Ok. I'm convinced.


----------



## Gabriel

Anyway, Steve, hang in there. We've got your back.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Well, has POSOM been terminated?


----------



## alte Dame

He really is a POS.


----------



## ABHale

The OM is a POS. 

Steve’s wife went step by step with him, she could have said no at any point and didn’t. So I guess that makes her one as well. They both cheated on spouses.


----------



## Marc878

ABHale said:


> The OM is a POS.
> 
> Steve’s wife went step by step with him, she could have said no at any point and didn’t. So I guess that makes her one as well. They both cheated on spouses.


Yep, he only took what she willingly and freely gave him.

In essence she's worse than him


----------



## OnTheRocks

I think you guys are being played.


----------



## OnTheRocks

MyRevelation said:


> I'm guessing you've never been D'd, because in my experience ... divorce and amicable ... are not compatible situations, especially in cases of betrayal. If it is like most, they will not "co-parent", as that just perpetuates the tension/resentment, but will parent separately with minimal interactions during exchanges.


My (cheater) ex and I are on good terms. It's not impossible, especially if you have self esteem. Get over your baggage.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

*Re: Let's all take a deep breath...*



BluesPower said:


> But I want you guys that choose to R to tell me that you are not triggered years later, that late at night the mind movies of your wife sleeping with another man or multiple men do not play in your head.
> 
> I want you guys to tell me that deep down, so deep you won't even admit it on the internet, that you don't really fell like a man because you choose to R. You did not get to have wild monkey affair sex for months or years like your wife did. Tell me that still you know that she lied that the OM was not better in bed than you, maybe bigger. You know that she had some of the best sex in her life and that you will never be able to match that. You know that she is settling for you because you were the safe plan B guy, and the sex is meh... but you know it is what it is. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE LOVE OF HER LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER BE THE BEST SEX SHE EVER HAD. YOU KNOW YOU WERE WEAK TO TAKE HER BACK BUT YOU WERE SCARED.


Wat?? Lol..... No triggers here, reminders yes. Mind movies? Not since like 3 yrs ago. And you are wrong on the rest for lack of too much typing.... But whatever, you have your right to speak your mind, it feels like around here sometimes those of us that chose to R are thrown into these grand inquisitions because we have to prove we aren't weak and lesser of a man.... Just lol...
I support OP decision of D if that what he wants, it's his life to choose.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## VladDracul

OnTheRocks said:


> My (cheater) ex and I are on good terms. It's not impossible, especially if you have self esteem. Get over your baggage.


Why should someone care if they are on good terms with an ex spouse. Seems trying to stay on good terms with someone you really had a flawed relationship anyway is too much work. Youre right to get over you baggage. Generally they are the baggage.


----------



## BluesPower

*Re: Let's all take a deep breath...*



CantBelieveThis said:


> Wat?? Lol..... No triggers here, reminders yes. Mind movies? Not since like 3 yrs ago. And you are wrong on the rest for lack of too much typing.... But whatever, you have your right to speak your mind, it feels like around here sometimes those of us that chose to R are thrown into these grand inquisitions because we have to prove we aren't weak and lesser of a man.... Just lol...
> I support OP decision of D if that what he wants, it's his life to choose.


I had a really nice response that I was going to send to @drifting on but, alas, the browser crashed and I lost it. 

In response to you I will say this. I am for any couple that can R after this, and if you have healed that is great for you, I applaud you for it. 

But I stand by my post in general, and it was meant to be general. I have seen personally, and read 10 times as many, and the actual number or WS's especially woman, that actually reached remorse is minuscule. And therefore the BS's that took them back will I believe were foolish.

If it worked for you that is really great and the same for @drifting on, but even you still say that you have reminders after how ever many years, and they my be small twinges of pain, that you hardly notice, but they are still there, aren't they?

I believe in the vast majority of cases, my post stands. You don't have to agree, and that is cool. 

But you, and those like you, may not want to admit to yourselves that my post hit close to home.


----------



## skerzoid

Matthew 7:1-3 English Standard Version (ESV)

Judging Others
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

You don't have to religious to see the wisdom in the Bible.

4000 years of wisdom. This wisdom is timeless.

I have my own demons to deal with (and they are many and grievous) without casting them on others. When I give advice, it is not to cause the poster to "D" or "R", just to get out of infidelity.

I don't know these people, their history, their own demons. We get their situation through their eyes and it is slanted to their view point.

This also goes for the posters giving advice. It comes from their experience, their biases, their experiences. That is the value of it. 

But you have no right to judge anybody else. What was right or wrong for you, is valuable to the people who come here for help dealing with the worst thing a person has to deal with, betrayal by a loved one. 

Even Jesus Christ had his heart broken by that! 

Keep giving your advice, but keep your judgements of others on this board to yourselves. FWIW.


----------



## Chuck71

skerzoid said:


> Matthew 7:1-3 English Standard Version (ESV)
> 
> Judging Others
> 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
> 
> You don't have to religious to see the wisdom in the Bible.
> 
> 4000 years of wisdom. This wisdom is timeless.
> 
> I have my own demons to deal with (and they are many and grievous) without casting them on others. When I give advice, it is not to cause the poster to "D" or "R", just to get out of infidelity.
> 
> I don't know these people, their history, their own demons. We get their situation through their eyes and it is slanted to their view point.
> 
> This also goes for the posters giving advice. It comes from their experience, their biases, their experiences. That is the value of it.
> 
> But you have no right to judge anybody else. What was right or wrong for you, is valuable to the people who come here for help dealing with the worst thing a person has to deal with, betrayal by a loved one.
> 
> Even Jesus Christ had his heart broken by that!
> 
> Keep giving your advice, but keep your judgements of others on this board to yourselves. FWIW.


Maybe her pride goeth before the fall....


----------



## skerzoid

Chuck71 said:


> Maybe her pride goeth before the fall....


My last post was talking about us all judging others if they "R" or "D". 

If a Wayward cheats, I believe we all can judge there as far as our opinions go, but I draw the line on judging betrayed spouses on their decisions. We can all make statements but I think we need to watch making judgements of a person because they choose "R" or "D" in their situation.

There are always mitigating circumstances and also things we are not told by the OPs.

For instance, mention Walloped and some people lose their ****.

Or mention SpaceGhost0007 and others lose their ****. 

One chose "R" & one chose "D". Are either totally happy? Far from it. There are NO WINNERS when dealing with infidelity. Its pure, unadulterated *EVIL* of the worst sort. 

All you can do is try to triage the damage and get some sort of recovery. 

Even if you are STRONG. 

After the Resurrection, Christ made St. Peter tell him he loved him 3 times. Why? Because St. Peter betrayed him 3 times. Even Christ knew they had to get past that.

Whether you believe in the Bible or not, you get the message. 

I just question if it is right to question people's character if they choose "R" or "D".


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve
How are you doing?
I hope you are doing as good as can be expected
with everything that has transpired last week.
Meeting with your friends dad, wife's resignation and 
OM removal. I hope the tension at home is at least getting 
better. I really hope that you are taking care of yourself 
that is the most important thing.


----------



## OnTheRocks

VladDracul said:


> Why should someone care if they are on good terms with an ex spouse. Seems trying to stay on good terms with someone you really had a flawed relationship anyway is too much work. Youre right to get over you baggage. Generally they are the baggage.


Coparenting is much heathier with a non-toxic relationship.


----------



## Suspicious1

sa58 said:


> Scuba Steve
> How are you doing?
> I hope you are doing as good as can be expected
> with everything that has transpired last week.
> Meeting with your friends dad, wife's resignation and
> OM removal. I hope the tension at home is at least getting
> better. I really hope that you are taking care of yourself
> that is the most important thing.


Both him and his wife are 32.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## BluesPower

skerzoid said:


> My last post was talking about us all judging others if they "R" or "D".
> 
> If a Wayward cheats, I believe we all can judge there as far as our opinions go, but I draw the line on judging betrayed spouses on their decisions. We can all make statements but I think we need to watch making judgements of a person because they choose "R" or "D" in their situation.
> 
> There are always mitigating circumstances and also things we are not told by the OPs.
> 
> For instance, mention Walloped and some people lose their ****.
> 
> Or mention SpaceGhost0007 and others lose their ****.
> 
> One chose "R" & one chose "D". Are either totally happy? Far from it. There are NO WINNERS when dealing with infidelity. Its pure, unadulterated *EVIL* of the worst sort.
> 
> All you can do is try to triage the damage and get some sort of recovery.
> 
> Even if you are STRONG.
> 
> After the Resurrection, Christ made St. Peter tell him he loved him 3 times. Why? Because St. Peter betrayed him 3 times. Even Christ knew they had to get past that.
> 
> Whether you believe in the Bible or not, you get the message.
> 
> I just question if it is right to question people's character if they choose "R" or "D".


Not really wanting to continue this argument, but for you and others, my posts are opinion, there may be some facts depending on the case. But there is not judgment, strong opinions yes, judgment no...


----------



## Lasvegas

I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.


----------



## Suspicious1

Lasvegas said:


> I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.


Are you referring to the OP?



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## smi11ie

Lasvegas said:


> I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.


You posted exactly the same thing in another thread. Did you read that in a fortune cookie?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

smi11ie said:


> Lasvegas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.
> 
> 
> 
> You posted exactly the same thing in another thread. Did you read that in a fortune cookie?
Click to expand...

Good catch. I thought I was seeing things. Yup this is in probably a few more threads too. Didn't think it made sense but know I know the intention of it.


----------



## Chaparral

It’s fairly old but when you google infidelity statistics it used to come up that 80% of the folks that divorced over infidelity regretted it and wish they had kept their families together and fixed their relationship.

Even if you ditch the wayward spouse the damage is done. You will still trigger decades later. Maybe not
As much though


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> It’s fairly old but when you google infidelity statistics it used to come up that 80% of the folks that divorced over infidelity regretted it and wish they had kept their families together and fixed their relationship.
> 
> Even if you ditch the wayward spouse the damage is done. You will still trigger decades later. Maybe not
> As much though


But is that number comprised of mostly betrayeds or mostly waywards?


----------



## sa58

I am sure that Steve's wife has or is starting to
realize what she maybe has thrown away. 

According to Steve's post: 
She is 32
Used to be mid-level career status (Resigned)
Had a duel major in college
High GPA in college
Married to a college educated person 
who is apparently highly successful .
Had a 2 year old child. 
I think that is what many women say they
want today. (Having it all) 
But she may have thrown it all away.
And for what a POSOM !

In my opinion Steve is probably 
struggle with this everyday.
Steve has to consider his family
career, assets, and emotions 
which are probably changing 
everyday. As I have posted before
every individual situation (IMO)
is unique. What each and every
individual chooses to do with 
their life is their right and their choice.
It is Steve's choice to R/D 

I have known of a few couples who
have split and then a few years later
reconnected and remain together today
In my opinion there are many things that 
could have affected his wife and him.
One that Steve posted himself- Her family
situation. Mother and father divorced 5 times
her grandparents, and her own admission 
seeking attention and validation from POSOM
Why? We are not there and can only go by what
is posted here. Nobody has a right to judge 
anyone if they choose R/D.

Simply put can we as a group stop this and
support Steve and advise him and let him 
decide his life. In my opinion his wife has 
little say in this since she threw that right 
away when she cheated. 

HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL STEVE

Side note- Lasvegas can you please stop posting the same 
thing on every thread. I would suggest you try reading them 
first!!


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> So you think it would have been better for him to live a lie, than file for divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> Even considering that she killed herself BECAUSE OM dies in car wreak, if I read the story right.
> 
> 
> 
> And her suicide, in my opinion, was a final FU to her loving husband.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I reading our post correctly?



No, it doesn’t matter what I think, A1 said in his last post that he would rather have never found out, than what happened. If he had known filing for divorce would lead to her suicide, he might have waited for a while to see if he could get over it.

No, she killed herself in despair that she lost her family, after years of therapy; she got over the OM’s death in the car wreck in about 18 months. During this time she told A1 she was grieving a friend. She was carrying the load of guilt over what she had done, like her therapist told her to. After bearing this horrible secret for years, she thought she would continue to have her husband. Her death was not a fu to her husband. In the end she did love him.

So we are not reading this the same way.

OP, sorry for this thread jack, I just wanted you to know that when a wife has expressed as much regret as your wife has, the situation has to be handled with care. Else your child may end up without a mother.


----------



## Edmund

GusPolinski said:


> Which do you think he’d prefer? That he’d never found out or that she’d never cheated at all?
> 
> Given a choice it would obviously be the latter.
> 
> He was just talking through the lens of his grief; through that lens, her infidelity was already a given.



Again, it doesn’t matter what I think. It only matters what he said!!


----------



## skerzoid

Come on Steve! Give us an update so we can stop thread jacking!


----------



## Edmund

skerzoid said:


> Come on Steve! Give us an update so we can stop thread jacking!



Steve’s probably not coming back. I hope it is because he has found a way forward with his wife getting treatment for her psychological problem that allowed her to be sexually attracted to someone old enough to be her father. He doesn’t want to hear all the brickbats and 2x4s he’ll get for changing his mind in view of her remorse.


----------



## Gabriel

Getting back on topic....Steve, let us know how things are going. Please keep in mind that it's OKAY to change your mind. Sometimes people reverse course and are too embarrassed to admit it to all of us keyboard warriors. 

If not, then we'd love to just hear how things are progressing. Either way, please update us when you can.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine. 

As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today. 


I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Could you send her information and have her
sign for it at her work or home to be sure she gets
it? Or could the PI get it to her?


----------



## sa58

OM maybe just trying to hang on because
he has not figured out what to tell his 
family.


----------



## sa58

You are right her doing not yours 
Live your life to the fullest 
It will take some time to heal
from this crap but you will.
Does your family know yet?
Hers probably knows only her side
thou.


----------



## re16

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Ask your friend at the company. I'm sure he has her info.

You are making the right moves. Life will eventually get better.


----------



## Evinrude58

My wife cheated. It’s been 4 years. I remarried. I don’t have any worries about her cheating on me. I’d never be able to say that if I was still married to my cheating ex.
I have three kids. I have to see my ex regularly and deal w her with kids.
I do have moments that I have a lot of pain associated with the family aspect I miss, but zero pain over losing her. And I was crushed for about a year and a half over it.
I have more pain over losing my ex gf that I had after my divorce than I do over my ex wife.

My new wife is a super good wife, and has good character. It’s a blessing that be back in a state of mind that I don’t worry about my relationship or cheating now.

I think your decision is sound. I think it will hurt for a long time, but I don’t think you’ll regret divorcing her. And you can always change your mind.

I do believe divorcing and getting out of infidelity and thinking about reconciliation when you’re not emotional is the best bet.

I personally think the OM should be fired, not allowed to resign.. jmo


----------



## Gabriel

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Thanks for the update. Sounds like you've gone past the point of no return and while she wishes you'd forgive her and stay together, she understands what she's done and respects your decision. That's a pretty healthy place to be.

If you stay fair and don't be vindictive about it, you guys could probably have a decent co-parenting life with your daughter. Remember that during your waiting game you could always tear up the divorce decree if you both wanted to.

Given your age, you've got lots of time to start over.

As for the OM wife I would call, leave her a message saying that you are his coworker and have information about him that she should know about, and to encourage her to call you back (but don't say what in the voicemail). If she doesn't respond after a couple of days, then you could write her a simple email saying what occurred, no major details, but it should say who your wife is, and that your wife has admitted it. And in the email you can invite her to call you for more details. I'd avoid putting a lot of details in writing or a voice mail.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Be sure and check with your lawyer before 
moving out. You do not want that to be a 
possible issue later. Even after an agreement 
is signed. Divorce is not final until the last day.
The old saying It ain't over until its over is very true.




Somebody pull the handle and flush that POSOM!!
Hopefully it will go quietly .


----------



## stro

Keep moving forward Steve. I hope you follow through and expose the OM. He needs some big consequences as well.


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Dear OMW-I have some information which you would be privy to hear concerning your husband and his dalliances. I can be contacted @ xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Steve.... you seem to have made up your mind. It's still a whirlwind for you and it

will be for awhile. Personally I see your decision as a good one. If you can't trust your spouse, you can't

love them. You can but it is a very unhealthy love. A type that would bring on pure resentment.

Work on yourself, spend time with your daughter, be a good co-parent. And if your STBXW gives you

a fair and no stress D.... that does say she has /some/ character. And maybe years down the road...

you n her may..... who knows? But for the short term, this is what you want.

Grandpa should be gone but workplace politics bring about strange bedfellows. He may try to

make it where he takes you down with him, especially when he learns OMW is contacted.

Either way.... I doubt you want to work for the same company he does. Would you consider a deal

if he leaves and you don't tell OMW? Bottom line, WYA.... watch your ass.

Grandpa has connections if he is that far up. His "henchmen" could very well "evaluate" you

out of your job in spite. I'd freshen up your resumes, just in case.


----------



## TDSC60

One little thing I noticed. You recently posted that your wife is now saying they had sex 8 times. Earlier, during her initial confession, she claimed 5 times.

I guess cheater have a hard time remembering all the lies they have told. 

To me, 1 time is enough to end the marriage.

DNA your daughter. It has nothing to do with making anyone feel guilty or confirming an affair.

The simple fact is that you need to be sure of her origin and the medical history of the biological father. I know it does not change your feelings for the child, but it could make a big difference in the future of your child if a medical issue comes up.

I have seen it happen where the doctors were basing all the testing of a child's illness using the medical history of the mother and father as a guide. It changed everything medically when someone realized that the mother's blood type and the husband's blood type could not genetically produce a child with the blood type in question. They wasted a lot of time laboring under the false assumption that they had a valid medical history. It could have been tragic for the child if they had not discovered it.


----------



## Chaparral

Are you exercising, eating right and taking care of yourself yet? At this point, taking care of yourself is part of being a good father. Life goes on and things get better only if you make sure it does. 

How about your wife? Has she sought counseling? Has her parents issues and the likelyhood she is following intheir footsteps been brought up? Even though you are divorcing, if you use reconcilliation as an enticement for her getting some good counseling help, the deception would be the right thing for everyone concerned.


----------



## ABHale

Lasvegas said:


> I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.


This is utterly Bull****.


----------



## Gabriel

Lasvegas said:


> I hope she did not get any reason to cheat on you. If you do not take care of your spouse then someone else will.


No - if you do not take care of your spouse, then your spouse will divorce you. 

A much better way to handle things.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Stay strong Steve. Your wife knew the consequences of infidelity. She chose to gamble on you never finding out and she lost that gamble. Her loss. You will put this behind you eventually and hopefully your wife learns a lesson from this not to repeat. 

Just call the OM's wife and send her an email with an outline of the facts as a reference. Tell her the facts and let her know that because of her creepy husband your 5 year old will now grow up in a broken home. Then she can decide does she want to stay married to him.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Have the PI put a packet in her hand


----------



## OnTheRocks

Marc878 said:


> Have the PI put a packet in her hand


This. A third party, even if they're being paid by you, has a lot more credibility. 

Who cares if OM resigns or gets fired? I would've loved to rain down 1/4 of this level of consequences on the OM from my ordeal. Nice work.


----------



## Edmund

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Stay strong Steve. Your wife knew the consequences of infidelity. She chose to gamble on you never finding out and she lost that gamble. Her loss. You will put this behind you eventually and hopefully your wife learns a lesson from this not to repeat.
> 
> Just call the OM's wife and send her an email with an outline of the facts as a reference. Tell her the facts and let her know that because of her creepy husband your 5 year old will now grow up in a broken home. Then she can decide does she want to stay married to him.


BIB -- His 5 year old is a 2 year old. Hopefully she will not remember much about this situation.

Scuba, you should do everything legally possible to make sure "Grandpa" OM's professional life is ruined. He is a workplace predator and is the textbook case of sexual harassment. May he burn in hell. Then work on healing from this.

Let your wife go start another life without further contact with you except as regarding the child and related financial responsibilities. Hopefully she can find a job in some other location.

Sorry that this thing happened to you (or anyone for that matter).


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Glad to hear the update.
There is much strength in action.
Stay strong.
Still behind you 1000%!


----------



## Sports Fan

Scuba, you have handled this as well as can be expected. Well done on offering up consequences for your wife's behavour. A lot of betrayed spouses here eventually give in to the outpouring of sex their cheaters throw at them and after initially having a bit of a hissy fit end up reconciling with their cheating partner.


----------



## TheBohannons

The negative of strength is that it often puts one in a position of suffering the pain in silence. While the accolades are warranted, when the lights go out and you are staring in a dark mirror, the pats on the back mean absolutely nothing. No one can help when you sit there wondering what the hell went wrong.

I have no words to assist in the inevitable, but if you hit the darkness, just do what all men must do. Take the pain. Endure. Wait for another day. And when you decide to rise above the deceit, work hard to become a better man then you ever were and be more than she will ever get.


----------



## EleGirl

I just deleted a multi page thread jack.

From here on our, address the OP directly or don't post on this thread. Anyone who continues the thread jack will enjoy a time-out ban.

{Speaking as a moderator.}


----------



## Beach123

Stay strong Steve! Take care of yourself and plan for a new future that's improved!


----------



## MattMatt

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve talked to my wife over the weekend and last night. We both have agreed to getting a divorce. My wife is still against it and wants to try to save our marriage before getting a divorce. I feel it’s to late to. We wrote up a outline of settlement. The plan is she takes that outline to her lawyer. We meet with her lawyer sometime this week or next and discuss the divorce. He writes up the agreement I take it to my lawyer have her check to be sure. One of us has to file after it’s a waiting game. I’ve also started to making plans to move out. I know my wife isn’t happy about it but it’s all her doing not mine.
> 
> As for the grandpa OM no word yet. My understanding was he was supposed to resign yesterday as of now he hasn’t. I'm going to figure out whats going with that later today.
> 
> 
> I haven’t contacted the OM wife yet. I want to do that today. I still haven’t figured out how to contact her. The P.I was able to get her Work number, email and what we believe is her personal cell phone. My plan was to send her an email with my contact info. Any better ideas.


Yes, well, a slight variation: Send her the email and copy the contents of the email into a text message to her personal cell phone. Also, do a check on the company website, sometimes they list work cell phone numbers on the site.

Anyway, you'll be in our thoughts and prayers, Steve.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Steve, did she ever offer a reason as to why she did it. Also did she really find grandpa attractive ? That is one that I cannot understand ?

Also how did it start ? Who initiated and what happened ? And finally how did it end ? Who ended it and why ? As I said before, you probably won't get the truth on all of this but it would be interesting to know what her answers to these questions are or would be.

It certainly will help with closure.


----------



## oldtruck

Edmund said:


> No, it doesn’t matter what I think, A1 said in his last post that he would rather have never found out, than what happened. If he had known filing for divorce would lead to her suicide, he might have waited for a while to see if he could get over it.
> 
> No, she killed herself in despair that she lost her family, after years of therapy; she got over the OM’s death in the car wreck in about 18 months. During this time she told A1 she was grieving a friend. She was carrying the load of guilt over what she had done, like her therapist told her to. After bearing this horrible secret for years, she thought she would continue to have her husband. Her death was not a fu to her husband. In the end she did love him.
> 
> So we are not reading this the same way.
> 
> OP, sorry for this thread jack, I just wanted you to know that when a wife has expressed as much regret as your wife has, the situation has to be handled with care. Else your child may end up without a mother.


All false assumption for her suicide. We will not know the why.
Though she had a reason to do It on her BH's birthday.
We also will not know that why.
Sad, for her death did not make anything better for her or
anyone else.

Edit: Sorry I did not read up to the Mod's warning before posting this.


----------



## Suspicious1

This is very true, an ugly truth that gets sided from time to time.

I think of Steve all the time, being a NY'er and more importantly he has a daughter nearly the age of my youngest. She'll be 3 this June, I can't imagine not waking up and seeing those big brown eyes.
Hard to think, not raising her full time, but I refuse to be taken as a fool by my supposedly life partner, the person I should undoubtedly trust with my life.

You learn to deal with the horror of it all, to be cliche as hell here time heals all wounds. You'll feel a dull sting of what that initial pain was, but as far as I'm concern it's beneficial to my life and aid to my recalibrated picker.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## sa58

Scuba Steve

Issues? 
Mostly her family history, and as you posted once
her always trying to impress her family. (a great daughter)
Her mostly probably being raised by grand parents. Her family 
divorced and remarried 5 times. I have posted about this also.
She seemed to have it all and thrown it away. She may be
headed the same direction as her family maybe. For what ever 
reason. You can help her but not save her. She can only save herself!!

Do not try and be a white knight and save her. She will pull you down
with her. Help her but she must see what is going on and seek IC on her 
own,. Look at the pain and damage she has done already in such a short time.
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND DAUGHTER!! FIRST AND ALWAYS FIRST.


We support you and are here if you need help.


----------



## Suspicious1

The original post was responding to thebohannons 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower

TheBohannons said:


> The negative of strength is that it often puts one in a position of suffering the pain in silence. While the accolades are warranted, when the lights go out and you are staring in a dark mirror, the pats on the back mean absolutely nothing. No one can help when you sit there wondering what the hell went wrong.
> 
> I have no words to assist in the inevitable, but if you hit the darkness, just do what all men must do. Take the pain. Endure. Wait for another day. And when you decide to rise above the deceit, work hard to become a better man then you ever were and be more than she will ever get.


While there is no denying the truth in what you post, let me offer another and I think better outcome of strength. This is a positive outcome. 

The mirror of your post is this. Steve has his balls in tact. And when he starts dating again he will KNOW WHAT to look for. He will not what he wants and he will be strong in his reach to get it. 

And when he is later laying in bed, after making love to a woman that truly loves him for just being him. A woman that not only meets his needs but exceeds them. A woman that longs for him to be with her sexually and every other way. A woman that when she touches him, he knows without a doubt that she love him with everything that she has got. 

Then he will understand what true love is all about, and he will be happy that he is a strong man, and not a door mat. Because he was strong, he will enjoy happiness...


----------



## Beach123

Was Grampa let go at his job yet? 

Did you notify his wife yet? I agree that having the PI place the info directly into her hands is wise...he will likely lie to her about why he's lost his job!


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I sent the OMW an email yesterday. I sent it her work email, it was short and to the point. I left my contact info. I haven't received a reply yet.

I talked to my friends dad. Apparently the OM as until Friday.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chaparral said:


> Are you exercising, eating right and taking care of yourself yet? At this point, taking care of yourself is part of being a good father. Life goes on and things get better only if you make sure it does.
> 
> How about your wife? Has she sought counseling? Has her parents issues and the likelyhood she is following intheir footsteps been brought up? Even though you are divorcing, if you use reconcilliation as an enticement for her getting some good counseling help, the deception would be the right thing for everyone concerned.


I haven’t been exercising. I’ve been eating like crap for the last two months, mostly fast food and junk food. I know I must start taking care of myself right now I’m just not motivated too.

In the letter she gave me. It said she was going to seek counseling. We haven’t really discussed any of her issues and I don’t think we will. I hope she gets help for those issues but at this moment I’m not in a position to help her. She going to have to figure it out on her own.


----------



## BluesPower

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been exercising. I’ve been eating like crap for the last two months, mostly fast food and junk food. I know I must start taking care of myself right now I’m just not motivated too.
> 
> In the letter she gave me. It said she was going to seek counseling. We haven’t really discussed any of her issues and I don’t think we will. I hope she gets help for those issues but at this moment I’m not in a position to help her. She going to have to figure it out on her own.


Except for the not exercising and eating poorly... The rest of this post is the most healthy thing that you have written on this thread. 

And you know what I am so proud of you for this. Because as bad as you are hurting, and as strong as you have been with all of this, you bet it is her problem. All of this is her problem, and even though we all know that you care for her still, this is going to be her problem for the rest of her life. She may get better, she may cope with the fact that she single handedly destroyed her family, and she may learn to live with what she has done, but she will never get over it. 

Just like from this day forward, when you think about this time in your life, you will feel a twinge of pain. But for you, you will get over all of this faster, and the twinges of pain will lesson over time, and you will find happiness eventually...


----------



## Chuck71

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been exercising. I’ve been eating like crap for the last two months, mostly fast food and junk food. I know I must start taking care of myself right now I’m just not motivated too.
> 
> In the letter she gave me. It said she was going to seek counseling. We haven’t really discussed any of her issues and I don’t think we will. I hope she gets help for those issues but *at this moment I’m not in a position to help her. She going to have to figure it out on her own*.


Spoken like a TAM veteran....... ^5


----------



## sa58

Steve

The pain you are going through will ease 
in time. My sons did, it took all of us family and friends
but he is happy as ever.

Exercising can be simple just try and get out and walk more.
I assume you probably work a desk job mostly. Play with your daughter in
a park or outside. Watch your weight you may have lost
some but just don't gain to much. Walk to lunch if it is close by.

She was going to seek counseling, that will be good if
she does. 



Continue to grow stronger every day, live your life 
to the fullest and most rewarding potential.


----------



## Cynthia

Scuba_Steve said:


> I haven’t been exercising. I’ve been eating like crap for the last two months, mostly fast food and junk food. I know I must start taking care of myself right now I’m just not motivated too.
> 
> In the letter she gave me. It said she was going to seek counseling. We haven’t really discussed any of her issues and I don’t think we will. I hope she gets help for those issues but at this moment I’m not in a position to help her. She going to have to figure it out on her own.


Taking care of yourself physically is part of the battle. If you feel terrible, because you aren't getting any exercise and you aren't eating well, it will impact your moods and how you handle stress. Please consider a simply menu to follow. You can make up a menu for a week to follow. For example, I have two hard boiled eggs with a bit of mayonnaise and raw, homemade sauerkraut for breakfast pretty much every day. It's like egg salad without the bread. It's highly nutritious and good for my gut. For lunch, I usually have a huge salad or a green smoothie. Dinner varies widely, but always includes animal protein and vegetables. Think simple and stick with it. You need to keep up your health.

Good for you for not trying to solve her problems. You've got to focus on getting through this as strong as possible.

Did she say how she plans to support herself? Is she looking for a job?


----------



## sa58

So Friday is POSOM flush day.
What about the CEO he was POSOM 
friend ? Any problems expected from him?
VARS- Out of sight and mind ?
Do you cook? I would suggestion learning
if you move out, during the long wait period.
Independence, healthy living for you and your 
daughter.Maybe start planning things for you 
and your daughter to do also together. My sons 
daughter (7) is his main priority. If she does not 
like you, he doesn't. 

Returned the BMW yet ? Have it towed
I understand not wanting to drive it.
If she asks why are what are you 
going to tell her?

I would tell her why. If she asked.


----------



## Windwalker

Chuck71 said:


> Spoken like a TAM veteran....... ^5


Couldn't have said it any better! And I totally agree.
Steve is a fast learner. He has a bright future ahead after this **** storm has passed.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S

Congratulations on overcoming the wife and the OM. Everyone is happy for you and apparent ending of your marriage. We are glad when someone uses strength to get out of infidelity.

What are you going to do about custody? You do realize that you have about twenty years of co-parenting ahead of you. Day-Care, Pre-school, Kindergarten, Primary school, Middle school, High School, College. 20 years of split holidays, parent teacher conferences, sports practices, music concerts, class plays. Her relationships to other men. The people that will come into her life as your wife dates, lives with other men, & their children.

I don't give a crap about your wife, but you haven't said much other than to say that she is a good mother. So are you going to give her all custody? You will probably remarry, and so might she. Other children will possibly take her place. I have seen that happen and I assure you it ain't pretty.

So far, the despoiling of your car seems to be your focus. Really? You better get your priorities straight. Or maybe I am just reading you wrong. That little girl would be my priority in life right now.

You have time ahead of you as the divorce process goes forward. Decide what you want for her and make that your priority. Play the long game. Think hard about her future.

Many people on these boards are concerned about winning, revenge, and the "Karma Bus". Just make sure that in throwing the OM and STBXW under the Karma Bus, that it doesn't run over your daughter in the process.


----------



## TheBohannons

This OP seems remarkably calm. Perhaps he will skip the pain and the darkness. Maybe his strength will carry him thru, relatively unscathed.


----------



## Raju Rio

stay calm. Let her decide.


----------



## inging

skerzoid said:


> S_S
> 
> Congratulations on overcoming the wife and the OM. Everyone is happy for you and apparent ending of your marriage. We are glad when someone uses strength to get out of infidelity.
> 
> What are you going to do about custody? You do realize that you have about twenty years of co-parenting ahead of you. Day-Care, Pre-school, Kindergarten, Primary school, Middle school, High School, College. 20 years of split holidays, parent teacher conferences, sports practices, music concerts, class plays. Her relationships to other men. The people that will come into her life as your wife dates, lives with other men, & their children.
> 
> I don't give a crap about your wife, but you haven't said much other than to say that she is a good mother. So are you going to give her all custody? You will probably remarry, and so might she. Other children will possibly take her place. I have seen that happen and I assure you it ain't pretty.
> 
> So far, the despoiling of your car seems to be your focus. Really? You better get your priorities straight. Or maybe I am just reading you wrong. That little girl would be my priority in life right now.
> 
> You have time ahead of you as the divorce process goes forward. Decide what you want for her and make that your priority. Play the long game. Think hard about her future.
> 
> Many people on these boards are concerned about winning, revenge, and the "Karma Bus". Just make sure that in throwing the OM and STBXW under the Karma Bus, that it doesn't run over your daughter in the process.


QFT


----------



## ButtPunch

I don't understand people pushing an agenda.

Steve wants a divorce.

Who can blame him? 

Not everyone can stay married to a cheater.

This is his choice. Respect his decision.

Deep down I thought Mrs. SS was maybe a good candidate for reconciliation but you know what.....
It isn't my decision.


----------



## SoVeryLost.

Whatever you do - hold onto the letters she wrote. Make sure they're in a place she can't find them and later destroy them. It sounds like things may be amicable moving forward; and I hope for your sake they are, but as things progress and she realizes reconciliation is definitely not happening, her tune may change. Even though you may be in a no-fault state, affairs still hold weight in court, especially if things get messy with custody. Where was your daughter while she was having her trysts? I'm assuming she was in your care. That is a card you'll have to play if things get ugly. Her character and integrity will already be in question because of the affair, and with her letters there wont be any he said/she said - it's all there in her own words.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Maybe I'm reading into it, but a first-time cheater I don't believe looks to counseling to find issues. Usually claims it is a one-time mistake, etc. I wonder if she was cheating with tattoo guy, too, or had done it before.

Other man's wife: always a crap shoot. Depending on her age and her station in life, knowing might be the worst thing for her if she feels she has no where else to go, or at least feeling she has no better options than sticking with him. Likely this was not other man's first time in an affair, you mentioned rumors with others. Also, maybe other man's wife knows already and long ago just started turning a blind eye. So I wouldn't sweat it too much if she is not all raged up about it. In the totality of the circumstances, I would suspect she knows who she's married to by now.

I feel sorry for everybody but other man. Even your wife, it's like when I read about some young kid drinking too much and causing a bad accident. Life altered forever for so many lives over a stupid decision.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

skerzoid said:


> S_S
> 
> Congratulations on overcoming the wife and the OM. Everyone is happy for you and apparent ending of your marriage. We are glad when someone uses strength to get out of infidelity.
> 
> What are you going to do about custody? You do realize that you have about twenty years of co-parenting ahead of you. Day-Care, Pre-school, Kindergarten, Primary school, Middle school, High School, College. 20 years of split holidays, parent teacher conferences, sports practices, music concerts, class plays. Her relationships to other men. The people that will come into her life as your wife dates, lives with other men, & their children.
> 
> I don't give a crap about your wife, but you haven't said much other than to say that she is a good mother. So are you going to give her all custody? You will probably remarry, and so might she. Other children will possibly take her place. I have seen that happen and I assure you it ain't pretty.
> 
> So far, the despoiling of your car seems to be your focus. Really? You better get your priorities straight. Or maybe I am just reading you wrong. That little girl would be my priority in life right now.
> 
> You have time ahead of you as the divorce process goes forward. Decide what you want for her and make that your priority. Play the long game. Think hard about her future.
> 
> Many people on these boards are concerned about winning, revenge, and the "Karma Bus". Just make sure that in throwing the OM and STBXW under the Karma Bus, that it doesn't run over your daughter in the process.


Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband. 

My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with. 

As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad. 

I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business. My daughter has and will always be my one priority. 

Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.


----------



## dreamer2017

Steve,

You have handled this situation with a lot of dignity and respect for all parties and I applaud you. I also feel the need for some posters to attack you and your process must stop!!!!

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## Taxman

Steve
You have handled this as well as anyone who has been handed the most emasculating, humiliating and disgusting "gift" from one's spouse. Inasmuch as you have taken the high road for the most part, one hopes that the consequences given to your wife are difficult for her to shoulder. She wants the marriage, as she is still in the fog, and I can bet she will be embarrassed to the highest degree when it comes out that she was bonking an old fart. I can just hear the taunts: "Hey, I see your date is using a walker, bet that gets you wet!"

I wish you well, I wish your ex hell.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> *Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband. *
> 
> My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with.
> 
> As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad.
> 
> I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business. My daughter has and will always be my one priority.
> 
> Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.


Correct.

As for your STBXW and OM let them deal with what they've wrought. They aren't your problem now.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband.
> 
> My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with.
> 
> *As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad. *
> 
> I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business. My daughter has and will always be my one priority.
> 
> Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.


Holidays are going to need to be spelled out separately, otherwise the same parent will have her every Christmas and Thanksgiving.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband.
> 
> My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with.
> 
> As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad.
> 
> I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business. My daughter has and will always be my one priority.
> 
> Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.


Just remember you have the potential to show her at least one parent that his healthy, and hopefully eventually you will have a healthy relationship with someone. That is a good thing. Your wife is not healthy, now maybe she will get counseling to be healthy but it's pretty obvious that a marriage with her at this time, wasn't going to be a good thing for you or your daughter. Stability is important to the kid. 

She will also not know anything different, plenty of kids grow up this way and have grown up this way for 50 years now. Divorce is as common as marriage at this point. I remember when my parents got divorced, when I told my friends at school I was the only one, 2 years later about half the class was in the same situation, and that was decades ago. The best thing you can do is really let your daughter know that she is a priority, you love her, you want to be involved in her life. Be involved with her life. That's really what is most important, not if you are there when she is brushing her teeth on a Wednesday. As someone who grew up with divorced parents who still were both active as parents in my life, maybe she won't suffer as bad as you think. 

Is the guy at least fired yet? Does his wife know? Last you posted he was still there. 

Has your wife accepted the situation?

By the way you handled this terrible thing very well. I suspect you recovery will be helped by that. You an leave with your head held high and confident that when someone abused you you took action. You have established a pattern of strength, take pride in that. You can do this, you are a good spouse and that is very valuable. Grieve, heal, check your picker just in case, take the lessons you have learned from this and then go find a partner who is honorable like you and you will have a great life.


----------



## bandit.45

You're doing good ScubaSteve. As well as anyone in your shoes. 

It will all work out in time. Just have faith in yourself and be the best dad you can be.


----------



## Chaparral

Your next step should be t the gym. One of the worst parts of this nightmare is it’s ever presence. It’s like there is a constant weight on your shoulders. Even when it does slip out of mind it comes back quickly and painfully.

I recommend the gym over other things because of the attention you have to give. Walking, running, cycling are good help but really poor at letting your mind have a break. I can brood like hell doing any of those.

Weightlifting however shows immediate results. You have to concentrate on weightlifting. It’s impossible to worry and count reps at the same time. Though you might just see a great looking woman working out too. Immediate results are feeling better about yourself. Also you can dramatically increase your strength in a few visits. Though you might not see it, you immediately get stronger. Exercise releases hormones and endorphins that make you feel better mentally and physically. Try it you will be surprised how a little relief makes you feel better.


----------



## Chaparral

Quit eating garbage too. That’s just lazy and self pity indulgence. Put a lid on that now.
Btw, are you getting any help from your parents or siblings?


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband.
> 
> My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with.
> 
> As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad.
> 
> *I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business.* My daughter has and will always be my one priority.
> 
> Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.


S_S

I've been a Head Coach in 5 sports for over 45 years. There has been many a time I have had to say something mean to somebody to get them to take action, something that maybe I shouldn't have said, but usually after they got mad at me they did something they needed to do.

I once had a 6'4" 225 Linebacker who wanted to be a jet fighter pilot (of all things), so I got the Air Force Academy coaches to come watch him play. The first half he played like a wussy. I took him aside at halftime, slap his helmet with my clip board and yelled that the fans, coaches, and other team were laughing at him. He wanted to kill me. He didn't but he put on an exhibition of violence in the second half, the likes of which I had never seen before. He and his teammates were very angry at me. 

He went on to be defensive Co-Captain at the Air Force Academy & a record setting Fighter pilot ((I don't understand how he ever fit in one of those cockpits....).

He now is retired Air Force and flies for Southwest Airlines. He just took my wife and I out to dinner the other night as he flew into town. I reminded him of the time he wanted to kill me. He told me that he owed me for everything he has become and had tears in his eyes when he said it.

Steve, please understand the spirit In which I spoke of the problems of custody. This is always the worst part of divorce.

As for handling your own business, yes, you seem very capable. But when you come to a site like TAM and ask for advice, you are going to get some that you disagree with strongly as you did with mine.

Thats OK. Chew my butt all you want, there ain't nothin' there but scar tissue anyway. Good Luck and I only wish the best for you.


----------



## Evinrude58

Just me, but I think the car thing was just insult to injury. He likely values that car very low in comparison to his wife and marriage. But he enjoyed the car, and couldn’t anymore due to the triggering effect of thinking she drove it to meet the OM. 
I totally understand.

I love my place out in the country... I built most of it with my own hands. 10 acres with a pond I built, a 30x 24 workshop, nice home..... now I no longer enjoy it as much, because of the terrible events and days I spent there with my ex. I may even sell out and start over.

Anyway, good post Skerzoid...


----------



## Thor

The car was a poke in the eye. Though she never intended for him to know about it, she did it out of some form of malevolence. She was mocking him in a way. And, OM was too.


----------



## Marc878

skerzoid said:


> S_S
> 
> Congratulations on overcoming the wife and the OM. Everyone is happy for you and apparent ending of your marriage. We are glad when someone uses strength to get out of infidelity.
> 
> What are you going to do about custody? You do realize that you have about twenty years of co-parenting ahead of you. Day-Care, Pre-school, Kindergarten, Primary school, Middle school, High School, College. 20 years of split holidays, parent teacher conferences, sports practices, music concerts, class plays. Her relationships to other men. The people that will come into her life as your wife dates, lives with other men, & their children.
> 
> I don't give a crap about your wife, but you haven't said much other than to say that she is a good mother. So are you going to give her all custody? You will probably remarry, and so might she. Other children will possibly take her place. I have seen that happen and I assure you it ain't pretty.
> 
> *So far, the despoiling of your car seems to be your focus. Really? *You better get your priorities straight. Or maybe I am just reading you wrong. That little girl would be my priority in life right now.
> 
> From what I read getting the truth and ending his stay in infidelity took his priotity. What should he do? Wallow in it? Become a martyr and stay over what appears to be a deal breaker to him?
> 
> You have time ahead of you as the divorce process goes forward. Decide what you want for her and make that your priority. Play the long game. Think hard about her future.
> 
> *Many people on these boards are concerned about winning, revenge, and the "Karma Bus". Just make sure that in throwing the OM and STBXW under the Karma Bus, that it doesn't run over your daughter in the process.*


He didn't put himself or his family in this situation but did an admirable job of getting through it.


----------



## Gabriel

What do you think guys? Seems like our job here is done.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Gabriel said:


> What do you think guys? Seems like our job here is done.


Most if it. There's still the task of pointing out possible land mines that SS may not think of.


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> Most if it. There's still the task of pointing out possible land mines that SS may not think of.


Not to mention just being here if he needs someone to talk to. That's the real purpose of this place, isn't it?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

I am sure your lawyer will check your child agreement with 
your wife but make sure everything you can think of is in ti.

School cost private or public
Health insurance, medical costs
Future college etc.

Your wife seems to be agreeable at the moment
get everything legal now that you can. People do change.
That could cost more legal fees in the future. 

Since your first post you have had a lot to deal with.
You have handled things great. I know your daughter
has a very bright future ahead of her. You have a 
great future ahead of you also. Best of luck moving 
forward.

If you need us we are here.


----------



## 241happyhour

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok first off, I didn’t end my marriage my wife did that when she decided to **** another guy thats not her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> My daughter is the real loser in all of this. It doesn’t matter what I do she’s going to suffer. This isn’t the life I wanted for her. It probably causes me the most pain knowing one thing she would probably want more than anything is something I will never be able to provide her with.
> 
> 
> 
> As for custody we will doing alternating weeks schedule we found online. It’s 50/50 I will have my daughter one week and my wife will have the following week. This will change once she starts school. Once she starts school we will have to figure out how to make it work. The last thing I want to happen is me becoming a weekend dad.
> 
> 
> 
> I have about hundred posts and I’ve mentioned the car maybe twice. I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business. My daughter has and will always be my one priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Has for the OM, I hope he rots in hell and he gets het by karma bus but I won’t be the one driving that bus.




Exactly sir!


----------



## ABHale

I honestly don’t look at it as a job. 

Just trying to help and that is far from being completed. It will be close when scuba is ready to help others.


----------



## bandit.45

I think we have overstayed our welcome. We get Steve to a good place and some numnutz poster says something stupid to piss him off. Then that’s the only time he posts. 

So yeah, clean up the beer bottles, grab the extra bags of Doritos, and lets all go home.


----------



## Chuck71

Steve.... just be aware she is quitting her job and does she have another? If not... you may be paying

much more to her. Many ex-couples do the 2-3-2 rotation. Keep in mind.... most guys who come to TAM,

have their head in the sand. It takes people here a couple months to wake them up, uncover cheating.

Followed by the should I stay / go period. Steve....you were dead set on a D. Ain't seen much here.

Although some threads turn into "right fighting," posters do have good intentions.

Me personally.... and I'm sure others as well, would like to know if PeePaw goes bye bye and if OMW

responds to you.


----------



## Chaparral

The thing we offer can’t be found in “real life” Steve can tell us anything and bounce ideas off of us. He can gloat about the wall that falls on the Posom’s head today for example. Anything he might be uncomfortable telling to his friends and family. Being cheated on is humiliating even though is should not be. The only mistake Steve made was not being able to read his wife’s mind or not have many years of experience at a young age. 

Sometimes old sayings don’t come true. But in this case her family had obvious, to us, problems. The apple really didn’t fall far from the tree. The Posom turned out to be the daddy she could impress and be groomed by. He filled a life long need no one in reality could really fill. Posom saw her need and played her like a cheap drum. I hope he rots in hell. At this point, by not fighting Steve and quiting her job, she has actually shown much more character than I have ever seen from a wayward wife. Yes she panicked right off the bat but that’s normal. Damaged people can’t seem to completely throw off their past. 

Now the two of them just have to salvage what they can in life and hope they don’t ruin yet another generation.


----------



## Chaparral

Chuck71 said:


> Steve.... just be aware she is quitting her job and does she have another? If not... you may be paying
> 
> much more to her. Many ex-couples do the 2-3-2 rotation. Keep in mind.... most guys who come to TAM,
> 
> have their head in the sand. It takes people here a couple months to wake them up, uncover cheating.
> 
> Followed by the should I stay / go period. Steve....you were dead set on a D. Ain't seen much here.
> 
> Although some threads turn into "right fighting," posters do have good intentions.
> 
> Me personally.... and I'm sure others as well, would like to know if PeePaw goes bye bye and if OMW
> 
> responds to you.


People have said this ever since I have been here and not one poster has been able to give an example of a cheater getting more money because they quit a job or got fired during a divorce, cheating or not. As a matter of fact they are more than likely to punished further by a judge than not. What I have seen is judges relishing handing out consequences to bad parents within the limits of the law.

That’s why it’s important to file sighting adultery if possible. After all, odds wise there is a one out of three chances a judges has been cheated on. Even if the judge has cheated, cheaters don’t usually like cheaters.


----------



## Chuck71

Chaparral said:


> People have said this ever since I have been here and not one poster has been able to give an example of a cheater getting more money because they quit a job or got fired during a divorce, cheating or not. As a matter of fact they are more than likely to punished further by a judge than not. What I have seen is judges relishing handing out consequences to bad parents within the limits of the law.
> 
> That’s why it’s important to file sighting adultery if possible. After all, odds wise there is a one out of three chances a judges has been cheated on. Even if the judge has cheated, cheaters don’t usually like cheaters.


I have seen it in real life.... granted, my state is 51st in reading comprehension. 

If they added a territory, we would be 52nd.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Chaparral said:


> Quit eating garbage too. That’s just lazy and self pity indulgence. Put a lid on that now.
> Btw, are you getting any help from your parents or siblings?



I know I have to stop eating junk. I think I reason why I’m eating junk is to piss my wife off. I know she hates the fact I’m eating Burger King every other day. My wife is kind of health nut so her knowing I’m eating junk all is killing her. I know it’s childish but it helps me cope with everything. 

My parents and brothers know I’m getting a divorce but none of them know the reason why. My friend and my sister are the only people besides you guys that know the full story.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Nucking Futs said:


> Holidays are going to need to be spelled out separately, otherwise the same parent will have her every Christmas and Thanksgiving.


Correct, we still have to figure out how the holidays will work and what kind of schedule we will have once out daughter starts school. A lot of this will depend on whether or not my wife moves.


----------



## Edmund

Gabriel said:


> What do you think guys? Seems like our job here is done.


Agree. Not sure what our job is anyway.

Another broken family. What she did was just too horrendous. I don't blame Scuba for his reasonable decision and admire him for having the courage to carry it out.

Would like to see bad things happen to predatory grandpa posom and toxic friend, not just cheating XW alone.

XW should get counseling to understand why she fell for someone 30+ years older and threw away her marriage and "little family" for him. Maybe something to do with revolving door parents, childhood.

I need to take a break from this website.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

@Scuba_Steve here's a parenting agreement example of what my STBXWW and I came to a few weeks back.

Every Two Weeks
Week 1: Monday (Me) Tuesday (Me) Wednesday (Hr) Thursday (Hr) Friday (Me) Saturday (Me) Sunday (Me)
Week 2: Monday (Me) Tuesday (Me) Wednesday (Her) Thursday (Her) Friday (Her) Saturday (Her) Sunday (Her)

And then the next week starts where we started from week 1 all over again.

That way we get alternating weekends, sometimes 2 days together with kids and sometimes 5 in a row depending on our weekend

- I always have Monday and Tuesday
- She always has Wednesday and Thursday
- Makes it easy for the kids I think to have that consistency 
- Her family always did Xmas Eve Together and Xmas day was for my side, we will keep that going, so really no need to alternate there
- Easter would be alternating each year
- Same With Thanksgiving
- As far as Halloween, I said whomever's day that is, can have it. There's so many Halloween activities leading up to Halloween nowadays that the day itself is almost overkill
- Fathers Day and Mothers day we will probably go with Friend of the Court Recommendation that if it's NOT our weekend, that parent will get the kids for the 'day', not overnight
- we have also chosen to be flexible with each other, I'm guessing that she may go back to old summer habits of being gone more than she thinks so I would be able to have kids as first right of refusal instead of a babysitter. I know some may frown upon that but the more I can have my kids the better

Good luck SS, sucks, really sucks but whether right/wrong, sad/happy, the fact that you have a plan means so much. Emotion or state of mind don't mean much without one to fall back on.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Steve, did you ever get any explanation of the affair ? How could she find an old guy attractive ? Did he start it ? Who ended it ? Anything. I have asked this several times because it truly baffles me - even if she had an itch she needed to scratch, why with an old wrinkly? What did she say if anything about this ? I have never got an answer to this - why?


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> Agree. Not sure what our job is anyway.
> 
> Another broken family. What she did was just too horrendous. I don't blame Scuba for his reasonable decision and admire him for having the courage to carry it out.
> 
> Would like to see bad things happen to predatory grandpa posom and toxic friend, not just cheating XW alone.
> 
> XW should get counseling to understand why she fell for someone 30+ years older and threw away her marriage and "little family" for him. Maybe something to do with revolving door parents, childhood.
> 
> I need to take a break from this website.


Our job was to help another BS realize what was going on and give suggestions on how to handle it. 

I came in late on this one. And I know @Edmund that you have a soft heart for families, I do to even though it may not seem that way. But I am here to tell you that I literally almost died from a stoke trying to take care of my ww/drug addict wife, and she never appreciated it. She actually came up to the hospital wasted and starting trouble, I had her removed by security. After that I was done, scorched earth. 

I for one think that @Scuba_Steve showed tremendous courage and determination in the way that he handled all of this. 

And while I know that he is going to be hurting for a while, in the long run he will be better for the way that he handled it. 

I say Kudos to Steve...


----------



## Tex X

Scuba_Steve said:


> Correct, we still have to figure out how the holidays will work and what kind of schedule we will have once out daughter starts school. A lot of this will depend on whether or not my wife moves.


You should seriously consider geographic restrictions being laid out in your final decree to protect you and your daughter in case STBXW decides to move far away. Something that locks your daughter in to a county or counties, or a school district. Courts actually like to see this as it promotes consistency for the child. And you need to be the primary/custodial parent (not sure what the verbiage is in your state, but this is the person that gets to determine the child's primary residence). These are very important things to have and they will greatly benefit you and your daughter in the long run.

For holidays I laid those out with even and odd numbered years. So for example on even years I get the kids for Christmas, and on odd years XW gets the kids for Christmas. On odd years I get the kids for Thanksgiving, and on even years XW gets the kids for Thanksgiving. That has worked out for me pretty well so far. And don't forget to spell out stuff like Father's Day, your birthday, etc. Hopefully you guys can work together down the road, but the final decree should be as iron clad as you can get it.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Stop eating the junk food to piss off your wife.
It may help you cope with things but it is not
a good self medication. There are other healthy 
ways to cope. IC family and friends. You will get 
through this, but you need to do it and be healthy 
and strong. Food can be a form of self medication 
to deal with problems. STOP IT NOW SIR!! Take care
of yourself, your friend is going to need your help at work
and your daughter needs her father. 

Get a solid child custody agreement everything 
you can. Your little girl needs daddy. 

Since your first post here you have gotten stronger and 
stronger with each and every day. Do not stop now.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know I have to stop eating junk. I think I reason why I’m eating junk is to piss my wife off. I know she hates the fact I’m eating Burger King every other day. My wife is kind of health nut so her knowing I’m eating junk all is killing her. I know it’s childish but it helps me cope with everything.
> 
> My parents and brothers know I’m getting a divorce but none of them know the reason why. My friend and my sister are the only people besides you guys that know the full story.


I get it. It would be good for you though to start to think of her as your ex wife though. Maybe start to have hopes for someone else in the future who won't cheat. The point being that there is hope for a good life with the dream of a faithful partner even though this one was a lemon. 

Can I ask why your parents don't know? Just don't let it be because you are ashamed. There is nothing to be ashamed of, you did everything right. You were faithful, a good husband, you had the reasonable level of trust that was required in relationships, and then when she treated you wrong you acted decisively and demanded better from your life. All these things mean you have the qualities it takes to have a good relationship in the future. The right women will see them even the fact that you dumped your wife and think this is the kind of man I want to be with. You are strong, strong enough to give your wife the trust that she deserved as a wife until she abused it, and strong enough to know your worth and walk away. No shame in saying, I tried as hard as I could but I wouldn't accept abuse. People will respect that. Hold you head up high man.


----------



## sa58

Steve 
The best way to piss off a ex cheating wife is
to become 10x better than ever. Have a better life
with out her and she will see what a f-up she did.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. She sure the hell 
does. She will be 33 and divorced because she cheated.
You were faithful and caring. Men are more than likely
to run away from her when they find out what she did.
You are probably going to attract women like bees to 
honey.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Where might your STBXW move too? How far would that be from you? Get your lawyer to stop the move, your daughter needs to be around both parents, not just one.


----------



## sokillme

manfromlamancha said:


> Steve, did you ever get any explanation of the affair ? How could she find an old guy attractive ? Did he start it ? Who ended it ? Anything. I have asked this several times because it truly baffles me - even if she had an itch she needed to scratch, why with an old wrinkly? What did she say if anything about this ? I have never got an answer to this - why?


So your question lead me to a ultimate thread jack but not wanting to get banned I posted here..


----------



## Evinrude58

How I think this forum benefitted Steve:

1) He was told that weak behavior like begging and pleading would not solve his problem, but would create a worse one. That's extremely hard advice to take. I have a feeling SS would have not had this problem regardless of what he was advised, because he is a strong minded person. I was told to, I had a hard time accepting it. 

2) He was able to get out of infidelity and get his wife and her other man completely on the ropes. If the Karma train that OM cranked the engine on and sent rolling down the tracks is the juggernaut I hope it is, OM will be looking for a new job to predate women at. I hope his record of no morals follows him.

3) SSteve's actions have resulted in a wife who is seemingly acknowledging her wrongs and I think even shows the possibility of showing actual remorse. He could POSSIBLY have a successful reconciliation if he wanted, after showing his wife he won't tolerate cheating, won't be in a relationship with a cheater, and will go at least partially nuclear on her if she did it again and he found out. And i think she respects that and as a result, doesn't have a lot to say. I believe that his advice here may have assisted him in having clear thinking about his own decision, increasing his resolve and increasing his chances of reconciliation, if that's what he wanted.

4) SSteve was able to receive some support on his decisions.

5) SSteve is able to have OPTIONS after this, instead of a wife who doesn't respect him AT ALL, like I had when I wimped out after her cheating, and like his probably would have been were he to back down, rugsweep, and beg and plead.

I think SSteve is a success story in the making. I think he's in a position that few Betrayed Spouses are able to put themselves in--- complete control of the situation. 

Bravo Scuba Steve! 
I'm really sorry you are going through this but glad you're in control of your life and able to move forward at a reasonable rate, instead of wallowing in self pity, losing your dignity, and increasing your time of excruciating pain.


----------



## x598

Scuba_Steve said:


> I know I have to stop eating junk. I think I reason why I’m eating junk is to piss my wife off. I know she hates the fact I’m eating Burger King every other day. My wife is kind of health nut so her knowing I’m eating junk all is killing her. I know it’s childish but it helps me cope with everything.
> 
> My parents and brothers know I’m getting a divorce but none of them know the reason why. My friend and my sister are the only people besides you guys that know the full story.


WHO CARES what she thinks???!!!
like any woman who has an affair get to be on high ground and judge what you eat :rofl::rofl:
tell her to worry about her own moral behaviors and not worry about yours. besides....and this one will really piss her off, tell her "not her problem to worry about anymore".


----------



## Thor

Steve, do some research on how different schedules work out for the kids. Mine were all adults when I divorced, but I have noticed a few things anyways (including the grandchildren being split between grandparents).

First, splitting a day in half seems to be difficult. And Christmas is sort of a 2-day holiday if your family does Christmas Eve stuff (like midnight church services or big family get togethers). I have found it easier on everybody if Christmas day is only at one place. Don't do a morning at one house with the afternoon at the other. If there are evening events on the 24th, having the kids stay overnight at that house to wake up there in the morning is a lot easier than transporting children at night to the other house.

Same with other big holidays, just do it all at one house or the other.

My kids and grandkids seem just fine with having a second celebration on a different day. Another bonus is in the future when you have a new woman in your life, the day is freed up every other year for you to do something with her without being tied to a half day for your kids. No, this isn't selfish, just practical.

Friends and family I have observed who split the day in half always seem stressed and annoyed.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> Where might your STBXW move too? How far would that be from you? Get your lawyer to stop the move, your daughter needs to be around both parents, not just one.


She won’t be leaving the state. My wife is still trying to figure out what she wants to do what to do career wise. She really isn’t that interested in working in the corporate world anymore, she wants to try real estate. Whatever she decided to do will determine where she moves.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

manfromlamancha said:


> Steve, did you ever get any explanation of the affair ? How could she find an old guy attractive ? Did he start it ? Who ended it ? Anything. I have asked this several times because it truly baffles me - even if she had an itch she needed to scratch, why with an old wrinkly? What did she say if anything about this ? I have never got an answer to this - why?



I answered this a couple of pages back.

The OM was the aggressor, he knew what buttons to press. My wife claims she never found him attractive, but he was someone she looked up to and respected. She kind of lost it someone like him started paying her attention. The OM made her feel special and beautiful. She hasn’t told me, but I think it’s her daddy/mommy issues I think most posters can see that. I don’t think she’s a bad person maybe broken. Kind of like her parents neither one is a bad person, but they definitely have their own issues. The first time around the OM was the one who ended the affair, he was the one who restarted the affair. My wife was the one who ended the affair the last time. Her reason for ending affair was because even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved. Don’t ask me to explain that one because I don’t even I understand what she means.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Scuba_Steve said:


> I answered this a couple of pages back.
> 
> The OM was the aggressor, he knew what buttons to press. My wife claims she never found him attractive, but he was someone she looked up to and respected. She kind of lost it someone like him started paying her attention. The OM made her feel special and beautiful. She hasn’t told me, but I think it’s her daddy/mommy issues I think most posters can see that. I don’t think she’s a bad person maybe broken. Kind of like her parents neither one is a bad person, but they definitely have their own issues. The first time around the OM was the one who ended the affair, he was the one who restarted the affair. My wife was the one who ended the affair the last time. Her reason for ending affair was because even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved. Don’t ask me to explain that one because I don’t even I understand what she means.


Thanks Steve. So quite simply she fell for the attention from someone senior even if he was old and wrinkly. She did this for nothing more than attention - not even good sex ??? Beggars belief! I was wondering if she gave you the usual line to say the sex was not good or at least, not as good as with you.

Interesting that she says she loves him. I think she has to say she loves him otherwise why else would she **** him - not for his looks. Respecting him is one thing but if she did not love him and still went ahead and ****ed an unattractive man, what on earth would that make her.

I don't know about her not being a bad person. A good person would not do what she did to you.


----------



## Evinrude58

I am in agreement with Steve-/- she loved him but was not “in love” with him???

What in hell could that possibly mean????
If she was having an affair, it seems she would definitely be in love with the guy, or he wouldn’t be worth risking her marriage.

This perplexed me. Geez, what a nut.

I think you’re doing right letting her go Steve.
She doesn’t make sense.


----------



## stillthinking

> Her reason for ending affair was because *even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved.* Don’t ask me to explain that one because I don’t even I understand what she means.


Yea, i know someone with that kind of thought process. Its the kind of reasoning that says, “i wanted to get out of this abusive relationship, so i married the guy who was abusing me.” ????? Their life has been a mess for years. It a dysfunction that goes deep.

It is going to take lots of therapy and hard work for you STBXW to be a safe partner for anyone.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> I answered this a couple of pages back.
> 
> The OM was the aggressor, he knew what buttons to press. My wife claims she never found him attractive, but he was someone she looked up to and respected. She kind of lost it someone like him started paying her attention. The OM made her feel special and beautiful. She hasn’t told me, but I think it’s her daddy/mommy issues I think most posters can see that. I don’t think she’s a bad person maybe broken. Kind of like her parents neither one is a bad person, but they definitely have their own issues. The first time around the OM was the one who ended the affair, he was the one who restarted the affair. *My wife was the one who ended the affair the last time. Her reason for ending affair was because even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved.* Don’t ask me to explain that one because I don’t even I understand what she means.


Jeeze, it sounds to me like her reasoning is it's ok to have a casual affair but not get too involved? Like screwing him Behind your back was OK just don't get caught?

It's cheater logic probably enabled to some extent by her toxic friend.

Doesn't bode well for any future relationships. 

Steve, you probably made a wise choice in going the D route. FOO issues can take years to fix if it's even fixable.


----------



## Openminded

Some women have affairs based solely on the attention they get from it and not because the sex is great or the guy is young and handsome or anything else. It's about feeling adored. She loved that he wanted her but that didn't mean she really wanted him. 

Yes, she has issues.


----------



## sidney2718

manfromlamancha said:


> Steve, did you ever get any explanation of the affair ? How could she find an old guy attractive ? Did he start it ? Who ended it ? Anything. I have asked this several times because it truly baffles me - even if she had an itch she needed to scratch, why with an old wrinkly? What did she say if anything about this ? I have never got an answer to this - why?


Sorry for the thread jack, but us old guys sort of resent that "attractive" remark.


----------



## sidney2718

Evinrude58 said:


> I am in agreement with Steve-/- she loved him but was not “in love” with him???
> 
> What in hell could that possibly mean????
> If she was having an affair, it seems she would definitely be in love with the guy, or he wouldn’t be worth risking her marriage.
> 
> This perplexed me. Geez, what a nut.
> 
> I think you’re doing right letting her go Steve.
> She doesn’t make sense.


Possibly it is the difference between strong passion and warm comfortable feelings?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> she never found him attractive, but he was someone she looked up to and respected. ... started paying her attention. The OM made her feel special and beautiful. ... Her reason for ending affair was because even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved.


She traded sex for attention. It's a common theme here for women. 

For male cheaters, the main theme I see is "sex," followed by KISA (Knight in Shining Armor).

Him having "money" to her (compared to her without you) and power (to her, as a boss for her area) was gravy. He could make her job easier, he could give her more access to decision-making, help her career by experience and access to managment. Let her come in late, leave early, longer lunch, etc. And it was on his dime. 

But "respect?" I call bullstuff on that. That's some real good mental gymnastics for her to see him as having "respect." I thought it was rumored he had been in several past affairs.


----------



## Marc878

Steve,

Is OM gone?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Any post-mortem on your side of the marriage?

Anything you would have done anything differently, pre-affair?


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

He started it then he ended it the first time.
Then he restarted it and then she ended it.
Does this mean that if you had not discovered 
it then there was potential for it to start again?
She deleted texts and pictures so you will never 
know what is a lie and the truth.
It does not matter now her f-up her problem.

Her issues are her issues, I doubt she will get IC
She is 32 and that just may be who she is. I think
she is still possibly trickle truth and telling lies. She 
wrote out HER plan for R in hopes of saving her rear end
period 

Steve be very careful in dealing with her she may be playing
nice still in hopes of still saving the marriage and her self.
Remember it is not over until it is over. Also remember you
trusted her one time and well you know what happened .
She may still be in contact with her toxic friend. She may be 
taking advice from her family also.

Scuba Steve

The more important issue is are you taking care of yourself.
Eating better ? Trying to stay in shape ? Go to the gym, eat
healthy, and tell her you are planning on getting in better shape.
That will bother her more when she sees what she has lost. YOU

PORSCHE 911 or at least dealer info for her to see. Damn that 
would be mean. 

In my opinion what she has said and is saying is BS.

Has the POSOM been flushed yet?
Hopefully you and your friend will have
no more problems from him.
What about the CEO, POSOM friend ?


Sorry your greatest fear has became a reality
and that you are stuck with cleaning up
her and POSOM mess. Stay strong and 
you will prevail. She will no doubt continue
spiraling downward. Sad but true in my opinion
You may see this in the near or distant future.
Remember you can not save her she has to do that
herself. I have said it before and will say it again.

IT IS ALL ABOUT HER AND NO BODY ELSE!!!

Stay strong you will get through this and soon
realize you are 100% better and happier.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> I answered this a couple of pages back.
> 
> The OM was the aggressor, he knew what buttons to press. My wife claims she never found him attractive, but he was someone she looked up to and respected. She kind of lost it someone like him started paying her attention. The OM made her feel special and beautiful. She hasn’t told me, but I think it’s her daddy/mommy issues I think most posters can see that. I don’t think she’s a bad person maybe broken. Kind of like her parents neither one is a bad person, but they definitely have their own issues. The first time around the OM was the one who ended the affair, he was the one who restarted the affair. My wife was the one who ended the affair the last time. Her reason for ending affair was because even though she loved the OM, she wasn’t in love with him and felt she was becoming too involved. Don’t ask me to explain that one because I don’t even I understand what she means.


Honestly it means she has her head stuck far up her ass. Seriously you are lucky you are strong enough to move on and so quickly too. The fact that she had the nerve to tell you that and doesn't even get who totally disrespectful that is to you proves my point in the thread I linked here. She doesn't have a clue what love is, she will not be a good wife to anyone. Plus you would think she would have some shame or get the magnitude of how pathetic she was, but she doesn't. I mean most of them at least have a little shame. She is clueless and heartless. The worst combination. Move on man, you can do much much better.


----------



## manfromlamancha

sidney2718 said:


> Sorry for the thread jack, but us old guys sort of resent that "attractive" remark.


I am an old guy too and I do not expect women half my age to be attracted to me physically either.


----------



## ABHale

Did the POS resign?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Well I just had a major setback. I’ve been trying implement the 180 to help me detach. I kind failed at last night. 

My wife made homemade pizza for dinner. It’s my daughter favorite. We really haven’t eaten has a family since dday. I was in my office doing some work. My daughter comes asking me to come have pizza with her. I had dinner with them after we went to the upstair living room and watched a couple of disney movies. Half way through the 2nd movie our daughter fell asleep. My wife and I picked up our daughter and took her to her bedroom. My wife and I went back to living room. We talked and joked around it eventually lead to us having sex for first time since dday in the living room and then we went to her bedroom. We also spent the night together for first time since dday. 

I promised myself I wouldn’t let this happen. I think I was on the way to becoming complete detached and indifferent. Now I don’t know what to think. I'm confused now than before.

No POSOM didn't resign, I don't even want know whats go to happen to him now.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well I just had a major setback. I’ve been trying implement the 180 to help me detach. I kind failed at last night.
> 
> My wife made homemade pizza for dinner. It’s my daughter favorite. We really haven’t eaten has a family since dday. I was in my office doing some work. My daughter comes asking me to come have pizza with her. I had dinner with them after we went to the upstair living room and watched a couple of disney movies. Half way through the 2nd movie our daughter fell asleep. My wife and I picked up our daughter and took her to her bedroom. My wife and I went back to living room. We talked and joked around it eventually lead to us having sex for first time since dday in the living room and then we went to her bedroom. We also spent the night together for first time since dday.
> 
> I promised myself I wouldn’t let this happen. I think I was on the way to becoming complete detached and indifferent. Now I don’t know what to think. I'm confused now than before.
> 
> *No POSOM didn't resign, I don't even want know whats go to happen to him now.*


Get ready for a tough conversation with your buddy and his dad. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that he's not leaving and they've got his back rather than yours. They'll probably be relying on your relationship to talk you into just accepting it and easing your way out. If so, you (and your legal team) need to demonstrate the folly of their ways for the next poor sap their buddy ****s over. I hope I'm being pessimistic here but I think it's more realism.

As for your confusion about your relationship, just be honest with yourself about what you want and what you can live with. Most of us think D is the right course for you but it's your call if you want to try R first. None of us have to live with your decision. Of course, you don't either.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bad Steve.


----------



## stro

I’ve never been in your position so I don’t know exactly how you feel. But I have talked to A LOT of people who’s marriages are in crisis. So I’ll give you my thoughts for what they are worth. 

I imagine you didn’t stop loving your wife when all this went down. And having family time and a return to a moderately normal interaction can bring back that feeling of what your marriage was supposed to be like. Probably felt good. 
I know she has likely come out of her affair fog and I imagine you are in a fog of your own. Probably a lot of anger involved. Moments like last night may start to break down those walls a bit. I guess that’s why the 180 is so encouraged for people in your situation. 

Do you see it as a moment of weakness or a sign that cutting her lose is going to be harder than you thought? 

Did you and her talk about it afterwards? 

What were her thoughts? 

As far as your confusion. My take is likely different than most people here. If a marriage can be recovered in a healthy way, I will always advocate for that. But the healthy part is the key. Only you know if that’s possible. I don’t think this should change anything as far as your plan going forward but if a line of communication can be opened with her about your families future then I would explore it. But make sure the number one priority is you and your own recovery. And remember you are still very early in this process. It’s an emotional roller coaster.


----------



## Marc878

Any word from posom's wife?


----------



## Marc878

Better start looking for alternatives. If they wrangle to keep OM if find a way out. Life is too short to take that kind of ****.

Carry through with the D. You can date after if you choose. If your X is worth keeping she'll understand and be glad to try and win you back. If not you have your answer she's not a keeper anyway.

Rolling over and eating the **** sandwich you were served won't get you much. Only you can make yourself eat it. No one else can.


----------



## Chaparral

First off, I’m surprised anyone here doesn’t know what she meant about loving the old dude. ILYBNILWU is common here but usually used in reverse. It’s usually the husband that gets that speech instead of the other man.

Regarding the Posom, I don’t think it’s unusual for younger women too find older men attractive. Not that I am older, I am surprised how many woman of all ages flirt with me. I did not see that coming. It is too prevalent to just be daddy issues. Anyway......

If he doesn’t resign get a workplace attorney and sue. Period. If your friends don’t have your back, take care of yourself.


----------



## dreamer2017

Steve,

I do understand your emotions because many of us have been there. It is your decision to either to move forward with the divorce or work towards a possible reconciliation. You must accept the fact you can’t turn love on and off like a facet. That being said, you must decide how you want to move forward with the situation with the owner of the company. If I were you, I would consult an attorney to find possible remedies to the pain and suffering he has caused you and your family. I don’t believe your friend has the power nor authority to force this person out of office. Again, consult an attorney and move forward against him with a terrible resolve.


Best,
Dreamer


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

As I posted she is playing nice to save herself. Major setback 
yes. You are really more confused now. Thought your friend 
had your back. Maybe POSOM has information you do not know about. 
Still your choice about D/R and what you can live with. 

Being blunt remember-
She cheated and lied for many months and was not there for you.
She sent OM pictures, taken where? At home? She lied about friends
from work and going to see them. She drove your car that she complained 
about to see OM. Valentines week while you were out of town. She drove your car
to NJ to see Om. Why did she do this? Disrespect for you and she enjoyed it ?
Have you asked her about any of this ? When you saw your wife was upset, you
tried to comfort her. She turned you away. Why was she so interested in Tattoo boss?
She was taken aback by this! A ww taken aback by being asked about cheating?

She tried to use your child,food, and sex to smooth things over before. Did she win this time?
It is still your choice R/D but what can you live with going forward ? She knows you love her and 
are sexual attracted to her. I would suggest continuing with D if possible and make her earn
your love and trust back. Do not just give it back to her. Talk with your friend and find out what
is going on with OM and if he is going to stay maybe take care of things there not so quietly this 
time. Best of luck keep us posted. R/D still your choice thou?

As I have said its all about her. When are you going to make it about you
and what you want and your daughter?


----------



## Marc878

She's putting you in a ***** coma.


----------



## sa58

I am an old guy and in my previous professional career
I saw a few time by younger women do this. I knew what they were
offering and what they expected in return. Trading sex for favors, not respect
or compliments. Bartering at its finest ?


----------



## wilson

Scuba_Steve said:


> I promised myself I wouldn’t let this happen. I think I was on the way to becoming complete detached and indifferent. Now I don’t know what to think. I'm confused now than before.


As humans we think we're so in control of ourselves, but really we're slaves to our hormones. Don't beat yourself up over this too much--you just had a setback. Think of yourself as a drug addict who relapsed in a moment of weakness. It happens, but it doesn't mean that it has to define you and your future. What's important is what you do going forward. Do you continue to be a slave to your hormones and desires, or you do consider what's really best for you long-term.

It can be really easy to think that recovery is the answer, but keep in mind that's she's just as vulnerable to relapses as well. What happens when gym-guy, neighbor-guy, or friend-guy starts giving her flirty attention. Will she be strong enough to resist, or will she give in to her weakness and relapse? I'm sure now she's well-motivated to work hard to reconcile, but that motivation will fade over time. When it gets back to day-to-day normality, what happens then?


----------



## BluesPower

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well I just had a major setback. I’ve been trying implement the 180 to help me detach. I kind failed at last night.
> 
> My wife made homemade pizza for dinner. It’s my daughter favorite. We really haven’t eaten has a family since dday. I was in my office doing some work. My daughter comes asking me to come have pizza with her. I had dinner with them after we went to the upstair living room and watched a couple of disney movies. Half way through the 2nd movie our daughter fell asleep. My wife and I picked up our daughter and took her to her bedroom. My wife and I went back to living room. We talked and joked around it eventually lead to us having sex for first time since dday in the living room and then we went to her bedroom. We also spent the night together for first time since dday.
> 
> I promised myself I wouldn’t let this happen. I think I was on the way to becoming complete detached and indifferent. Now I don’t know what to think. I'm confused now than before.
> 
> No POSOM didn't resign, I don't even want know whats go to happen to him now.


Well Steve, that really is a set back. If you or her don't move out, it will happen again. I don't know if you want that, or not. I am sure that you are conflicted and I get that. 

I can't tell you what to do, but I want you to think about some things. 

You see as much as you are hurting, you really have not dealt with the real pain of your wife's affair. When a man is strong enough and they start the divorce process, they are looking forward. They are looking to free themselves from the pain of that, to a certain extent. 

If you decide to take her back, you will have to deal with that pain, and it is not fun. This is really something that you need to think through.

The other thing is that is the POSOM does not resign, you need to leave that job. You also have a view into the owners priorities, profit over morals. There is not way that you can stay in that job if they allow him to stay. 

Stay strong and do what is best for you...


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve,

Get to a lawyer first thing tomorrow. If you know one who specializes with labor related issues, that is the one you need. Know your rights.
You have more power than you realize. 

POSOM has to go. Your leverage is the threat of litigation and bad publicity your friend and his dad
Desire to avoid. If they keep POSOM, you know we’re you stand and what they really think about you. However, if you make the threat, you have to pull the trigger or your words are meaningless to son and dad.

I will use the analogy from the move National Treasure where Ben is sitting with the FBI agent who says,” Ben, somebody’s got to go to jail.”
In your situation it is “ Mr.Dad, somebody’s got to get fired and now, or there will be hell to pay on your part.”

If they keep POSOM, sue, get a nice settlement, and find another job. Do not be a doormat and accept this. Use your leverage to your advantage.


----------



## Beach123

Well, I hope you used protection.

And it's time to search out info on why the OM isn't gone yet!


----------



## oldtruck

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Steve,
> 
> Get to a lawyer first thing tomorrow. If you know one who specializes with labor related issues, that is the one you need. Know your rights.
> You have more power than you realize.
> 
> POSOM has to go. Your leverage is the threat of litigation and bad publicity your friend and his dad
> Desire to avoid. If they keep POSOM, you know we’re you stand and what they really think about you. However, if you make the threat, you have to pull the trigger or your words are meaningless to son and dad.
> 
> I will use the analogy from the move National Treasure where Ben is sitting with the FBI agent who says,” Ben, somebody’s got to go to jail.”
> In your situation it is “ Mr.Dad, somebody’s got to get fired and now, or there will be hell to pay on your part.”
> 
> If they keep POSOM, sue, get a nice settlement, and find another job. Do not be a doormat and accept this. Use your leverage to your advantage.



Yes find the best labor law lawyer you can and have your WW file suit for
sexual harassment.

Also you need to make personal contact with the OMW to know that she
has found out about her WH cheating on her.


----------



## stillthinking

So you fell off the horse. Just pick yourself up and get back on.

IMO, what she is doing right now is genuine. A genuine tactic to scramble your brain and put you on your heels. To get you thinking, "Man, maybe this can work. Maybe things can go back to what they were. Wouldn't it be so much easier to stay?"

This is exactly the kind of thoughts that result form the famous "***** Coma". And all it takes is a few simple gestures, a little oral, and removing the panties. 

BOOM.

And it works. Of all of the tactics available to the WW it is the most powerful. Many a BH have fallen prey to it. 

Here is one example form last year: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...had-6-month-emotional-affair-married-man.html

Yet nothing has changed. She still has all of the deep seated issues that led her to have sex with Grandpa. She is still the person who stabbed you in the back for months. Who lied. Who exposed you to potential STD's. And so on and so on.

Ask yourself this. If you were single and you meet a woman who had done to her ex-husband what she has done to you, would you date her? Would you recommend your best friend date her? I would tackle my best friend and wrap him in duct tape if he even considered it.

So just shake it off. Move forward.


----------



## Tobyboy

Don’t sweat it. It’s just sex. Doesn’t change the facts that she cheated......repeatedly! 

Also, pizza is an aphrodisiac....just saying. Carry on!


----------



## Marc878

Her having sex with you now is probably just trying to get what she wants. The same way she used it with her other man.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,

You had a set back. Unfortunately, **** does sometimes happen. You have been strong and resilient to this point. The thing that brought it all down is the one thing that will tie you to your stbxw for the next x number of years, your daughter.

Could you have changed your interaction with your daughter in any way to change the outcome of what happened. Say for instance, honey it would make me very happy to eat some pizza with you. Let's get some and come back and watch some funny videos on the computer with me.

The close family situation were just like old times. That's what caused the set back. The old times are gone and you have to put the parts in place to accomplish your new goals. Yes, my initial reaction is to say "bad Steve". It's a **** up. Everyone ****s up. Learn from it and grow. Do not allow her to use sex as a weapon, because that's what it was. You are close to falling off the wagon and not achieving the goals you stated that you want.

I do hope you at least used the condoms she bought for the other man. That would have sent a HUGE message.. 

Still got your back man.
Stay strong, chin up and dust yourself off.


----------



## sa58

Steve.

Tell her you still want a divorce, I would like to know her reaction ?
You both agreed to divorce didn't you? Ask her when she plans on
starting IC? I wonder if she even is going to do it. Are you sure she
isn't trying to manipulate you still? She is a proven liar and cheat.

Why not tell her about the ticket for your car and valentines 
week. What have you got to lose now. If Om doesn't go do
you want to go to work there everyday? Where is she planning 
on working? Maybe get her job back ?

I get the feeling you are a very easy going man who just wants 
to live his life. You have been looking out for your friends and 
still Om remains there. You have said your wife has issues and 
you know about them. I would still ask her for her phone and try
and recover the data.Then you might know more truth and who
you are actually dealing with. 

Do you want to have to deal with her and whatever her issues 
are forever? She has tried (IMO) to cover up everything and 
manipulate the whole situation .Is she is still doing that ?

This should not be about her, your friends, or anything else.

This should be only about you and your happiness now and in
the future. Ask yourself can you live without her or can you live 
with her? That as far as she is concerned is the big question. 

Stand up and to hell with every body else and their damn feelings !!

WHAT ABOUT YOU ?

How much crap are you willing to put up with?

I have no doubt it is hard , after all you love this person
but does she truly love you? How has she proven it ?
Lies and excuses, Your family knows you are getting a divorce
have you told them she cheated ? No need for details.
How do you know what she has lied about to her family, 
and toxic friend. She has her toxic friend because people 
tend to hang around with people they are comfortable around.
Like minds stick together.

We are here all of use different ideas and all for you.

I am not trying to point you in any direction R/D just 
point you in the direction of taking care of you .

WHAT ABOUT YOU STEVE ? 

Concentrate on you and your daughter from this point
forward. What is best for both of you. I think everybody
around you is only concerned about themselves. Including 
your wife.


----------



## skerzoid

S_S:

1. *Maintain the divorce* as going forward, letting her know that it will, in all probability, end in the dissolution of the marriage.

2. *The divorce process will take time*. Tell her you are watching her actions not her words.

3. *Hold her to what she proposed in her second letter*, as far as that goes, with any additions and demands that you propose to add to it.

4. *Require a completely honest timeline and test it with a polygraph*. You have to have a complete picture of her betrayal in order to consider your actions going forward.

5. Was a *no-contact letter* ever drawn up and sent to the OM?

6. *Completely open access* to all electronics and phone and auto tracking on. Like Reagan said, "Trust but verify". 

7. *Sex?* You must realize that it will be considered "forgiveness" by a court now. But if "hysterical bonding" takes place, let her know that it is not forgiveness AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED. You have to maintain control of this.

8. Continue to maintain your child as your top priority in this (as you expressed to me in your rebuttal to my earlier post (the scar tissue on my a$$ is still burning :surprise: )).

9. When discussing these things with your wife, *record it* and have a written agenda. Keep it business like as these are* treaty negotiations*.

10. If the OM is not disciplined severely, your wife should be filing a *sexual harassment suit* with HR. You have been a friend and loyal employee in all of this so far, but if they don't follow through for you, Phuck 'em!

11. There are many people on TAM with differing opinions on your course, and *with good reason* They themselves have been victimized in the worst way by unscrupulous spouses. They have seen episodes like yours many times where the betrayed spouse was dragged through "false R", and they are wary and believe that the best answer is always divorce. But, as you so eloquently replied to me earlier, *"I have my priorities straight I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me how to handle my business."* OK, this is a long road with hard work and pain whether this ends in Reconciliation or Divorce. Good luck and we are all rooting for *YOU* Steve.


----------



## TheBohannons

Business is rutheless, and you are about to find out your value as a employee and a man.

In order for the OM to stay, there was a meeting and somehow, they believe you will fold. The question is, who was part of that meeting. Was your wife contacted?

The path of least resistance is for you leave the company, (with a payout) reconcile with your wife and business moves on. To save the company, the angry beast must be placated. Was your wife at work last week? The OM made that phone call. And she seduced you. He pimped her to you.

Step 2 is the conversation on how best to move you out. You can not stay if the OM stays. Your wife has already gave her notice. Your meeting will be next.

I suggest you talk to your wife and under the threat of a poly,/subpoena, ask her if she had any contact with the OM or executive staff in the past week. If she new of this and did not tell you, she is protecting the OM. 

Prepare yourself for the meeting. Ask to record the session. If they ask you to take a fall, leave the meeting. With all the sexual harrasmment firings, once a workplace affairs hits the news, the company will take a huge blow.

This is a game of poker. 3 people know the cards. Your wife may be the 4th person. You are sitting with 4 kings and they are bluffing 4 aces. Look across the table and see the OM. Raise them all in. 

The OM said F Steve, I had sex with his wife so what. She told me he was weak. That's why she took off her clothes. I am not quitting. Fire Steve.

Reconcile if you wish, but burn his pompous ass to the ground.


----------



## Lostinthought61

steve,

your wife is desperate to use all her power to keep you.....so what a setback...what i am curious about has the OM seen you at work and you him and has he tried to apologize ?


----------



## Nucking Futs

TheBohannons said:


> Business is rutheless, and you are about to find out your value as a employee and a man.
> 
> In order for the OM to stay, there was a meeting and somehow, they believe you will fold. The question is, who was part of that meeting. Was your wife contacted?
> 
> The path of least resistance is for you leave the company, (with a payout) reconcile with your wife and business moves on. To save the company, the angry beast must be placated. Was your wife at work last week? The OM made that phone call. And she seduced you. He pimped her to you.
> 
> Step 2 is the conversation on how best to move you out. You can not stay if the OM stays. Your wife has already gave her notice. Your meeting will be next.
> 
> I suggest you talk to your wife and under the threat of a poly,/subpoena, ask her if she had any contact with the OM or executive staff in the past week. If she new of this and did not tell you, she is protecting the OM.
> 
> Prepare yourself for the meeting. Ask to record the session. If they ask you to take a fall, leave the meeting. With all the sexual harrasmment firings, once a workplace affairs hits the news, the company will take a huge blow.
> 
> This is a game of poker. 3 people know the cards. Your wife may be the 4th person. You are sitting with 4 kings and they are bluffing 4 aces. Look across the table and see the OM. Raise them all in.
> 
> The OM said F Steve, I had sex with his wife so what. She told me he was weak. That's why she took off her clothes. I am not quitting. Fire Steve.
> 
> Reconcile if you wish, but burn his pompous ass to the ground.


I agree, I think this is where you're heading. I think you need to retain a lawyer tomorrow morning and prepare to play hard ball. You think this is a friend but I think he's getting ready to screw you over. Get ready to burn this bridge if they try to shaft you and make sure it's a conflagration they'll never forget.


----------



## Beach123

I'd be wondering why Grampa is still in the drivers seat?


----------



## just got it 55

Beach123 said:


> I'd be wondering why Grampa is still in the drivers seat?


He more than likely knows where the skeletons are

55


----------



## Scuba_Steve

The OM is gone. I’m good if I want to stay. My friend already called telling I have nothing to worry about. His Dad only wanted to do right by the OM since he’s been with the company for 15 plus years. Besides even if did come down between me or him. It would be me. I bring in more money than he ever with. 

As for my wife, we talked after it happened. I tried to make it clear I still wanted the divorce. She seemed to understand that. In reality this isn’t as clear cut anymore. Maybe it shouldn’t change anything but it has. I really need to move out ASAP.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Beach123 said:


> Well, I hope you used protection.
> 
> And it's time to search out info on why the OM isn't gone yet!


Sadly i didn't. Let's just say I was using my second head.


----------



## stillthinking

> I really need to move out ASAP.


Agreed. Detachment is a good idea. It will help clear your head. 

Run it by the divorce lawyer first. Just to make sure there are no downsides to moving out before the divorce is final.


----------



## Beach123

If you don't want your wife saying she's pregnant next month - you may want to encourage her to take the morning after pill.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> The OM is gone. I’m good if I want to stay. My friend already called telling I have nothing to worry about. His Dad only wanted to do right by the OM since he’s been with the company for 15 plus years. Besides even if did come down between me or him. It would be me. I bring in more money than he ever with.
> 
> As for my wife, we talked after it happened. I tried to make it clear I still wanted the divorce. She seemed to understand that. In reality this isn’t as clear cut anymore. Maybe it shouldn’t change anything but it has. I really need to move out ASAP.


Good news !!!! 

Divorce first. If you want to try and make it work after you'll know more about her long term intentions. If you do go this route get an iron clad pre nup in place.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> As for my wife, we talked after it happened. I tried to make it clear I still wanted the divorce. She seemed to understand that. In reality this isn’t as clear cut anymore. Maybe it shouldn’t change anything but it has. I really need to move out ASAP.


I understand how it happened. All of you, daughter included, resumed your familiar roles and it felt good. Just like slipping on some comfortable old shoes. It felt good for the body and the soul.

Just remember that your wife risked years of the domestic bliss you experienced last night for a poke from grandpa. For you sex is special and you feel that you owe her something now. 

Well sex isn’t special for your wife. She knew exactly what she was doing and it worked. She used your daughter like a guided missile.



Scuba_Steve said:


> My daughter comes asking me to come have pizza with her. I had dinner with them after we went to the upstair living room and watched a couple of disney movies.


Don’t get her pregnant. If you do it again use a condom. It’s safer and makes a statement about her having sex with other people.

EDIT: If I remember correctly she has a supply of condoms in her travel bag. Did you ever find out if she traveled somewhere to meet grandpa or was the travel bag for someone else?


----------



## sa58

Steve 

Very glad to hear you are good, and OM is gone.
We were all wondering as you probably can see from
the different posts since your last.

Move forward and remember it should not be about
anyone else but you and your daughters happiness.

REMEMBER JUST YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER NOT THE WIFE
OR ANYONE ELSE!!

Sorry to repeat myself but be careful she may try 
and do something else to stop you from divorce.
She may seem like she understands but have a different 
mind set. Think with the big head it is always smarter than 
the little one.

Any word from OM wife yet?


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Well I just had a major setback. I’ve been trying implement the 180 to help me detach. I kind failed at last night.
> 
> My wife made homemade pizza for dinner. It’s my daughter favorite. We really haven’t eaten has a family since dday. I was in my office doing some work. My daughter comes asking me to come have pizza with her. I had dinner with them after we went to the upstair living room and watched a couple of disney movies. Half way through the 2nd movie our daughter fell asleep. My wife and I picked up our daughter and took her to her bedroom. My wife and I went back to living room. We talked and joked around it eventually lead to us having sex for first time since dday in the living room and then we went to her bedroom. We also spent the night together for first time since dday.
> 
> I promised myself I wouldn’t let this happen. I think I was on the way to becoming complete detached and indifferent. Now I don’t know what to think. I'm confused now than before.
> 
> No POSOM didn't resign, I don't even want know whats go to happen to him now.


Your gonna have to fight man. Fight for a better life. Fight to get that ******* fired. No one said this would be easy, you are in the hardest fight of your life right now. I would get angry. Everyone is thinking they can just push you around. Can they? They all think they can just treat you like crap and you will take it? Gotta swing back sometimes - (meteorically) I would go to your friend and force his hand. Tell him you respect their taking care of you but if he is not fired you are going to call a lawyer. 

See if you can make the sex about sex. Your wife is still the same woman she was the moment before you had the sex, nothings changed. You already know she uses her body to get what she wants. It's not love. If you can detach emotionally and just see it as a physical action then nothing wrong with that. Most can't. Just don't get emotionally tangled up into it. She is not a good person to be married to, she may be fine to have sex with, but make sure you use protection. Sometimes these women try to get pregnant to keep you. Don't put it past her.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Sadly i didn't. Let's just say I was using my second head.


Next time leave afterwords and tell her you have a date. Even if you don't.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

Maybe you and your daughter could start staying overnight
with your family on the weekends.That isn't moving out
just weekend with family and relatives for now.

New York is a no fault divorce state so you should still 
be able to continue with the divorce. Check with your lawyer.
No fault states have many reasons for divorce to file on


----------



## MattMatt

Scuba_Steve said:


> Sadly i didn't. Let's just say I was using my second head.


Which means a divorce based in infidelity is not possible, so other grounds would come into play, now.


----------



## Windwalker

Steve,

Definitely run the idea of moving out by your lawyer first before you do anything. Be very cautious about the familiar old feeling of the happy family you once had.

Take care of you and that little girl.


----------



## Beach123

You really don't have to move out. Your wife cheated...tell her to pack and be the one to move! 

You don't need to keep accommodating her! She should be inconvenienced, not you.


----------



## scaredlion

I have to say, in my opinion, if you are going to divorce someone you don't go have sex with them. In many places having sex with a WS is the same as forgiving them. You either still love your wife, and deep down don't really want to divorce, or you are weak when it comes to sex and you are a user. To use someone for sex when you are planning to get rid of them isn't near as bad as infidelity but it is a long way from being an acceptable and honorable act. If you really must have sex then find someone who you aren't planning to kick to the curb. If you still love her and don't really want to divorce, then do what is right for you and your family. Do you think she will ever do this again if you stay with her? If you answer with a YES, then you should divorce. Is she worth the risk of staying faithful? If it is yes, then maybe the risk is worth taking. Advice is sometimes a great help but, in the end, you have to make the decision that is best for you. There are many who wish their WS was remorseful and willing to R but the WS is soooo in love with their AP they want out. In such a situation I would recommend divorce also. I have a hard rule when it comes to R. NEVER LIVE WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LOVE YOU. If there is love then there's a chance. If some don't agree with your decision remember, no one can make you feel bad about yourself without your permission. I do wish you well.


----------



## stro

While I can’t imagine how you feel. I know If I were in your shoes I think it would be next to impossible to forgive my wife but man I would want to try. I know thats unpopular here but if she was humble, remorseful, contrite, did the work and EARNED it. It would be hard for me not to at least explore the possibility of recovery.


----------



## ButtPunch

SS

You are not on any timeline to make any decisions.

Especially one as important as this. 

Do not let the posters influence you either way.

This is your life. 

One day at a time.


----------



## Beach123

I'd suggest seeing a counselor for a hefty dose of help to know where your boundary is.

That way when she manipulates - you recognize it...and can get into action to avoid being conned by her.

She knows she's using sex to convince you to reconsider - don't fall for that.


----------



## farsidejunky

ButtPunch said:


> SS
> 
> You are not on any timeline to make any decisions.
> 
> Especially one as important as this.
> 
> Do not let the posters influence you either way.
> 
> This is your life.
> 
> One day at a time.


This.


----------



## karole

sokillme said:


> Next time leave afterwords and tell her you have a date. Even if you don't.


Seriously?


----------



## sokillme

ButtPunch said:


> SS
> 
> You are not on any timeline to make any decisions.
> 
> Especially one as important as this.
> 
> Do not let the posters influence you either way.
> 
> This is your life.
> 
> One day at a time.


This is true but since you have repeatedly indicated you want to divorce then the sooner you do the sooner you can start your new life. No use wasting time if you know already what you want. Go out and get it. You will heal faster.


----------



## Tron

Scuba,

Don't be too hard on yourself. Life is not some permanently and pre-ordained path. 

Many a BS has told themselves "I'd never respect myself if I forgave a wayward spouse and stayed". My wife said the same and we are still together 15 years after d-day, still a family (3 kids) and we still love each other. 

I'm not saying it is perfect and it hasn't been easy. Reconciliation is certainly not for everyone. But if you still love her and there is still "something" there, it doesn't hurt to slow things down before making the break-up permanent. A lot of folks will simply tell you to D and never look back, that you can do better, etc. etc. 

In cases where there are kids involved, there's a good bit of mutual respect and love and no abuse I'd suggest considering the other option. If there is good base to work from then it is in your child's best interest to at least consider it. At the end of the day, you are not the only one that you need to look out for. 

Please pick up this book and give it a read: https://www.amazon.com/Unexpected-Legacy-Divorce-Landmark-Study/dp/0786886161.


----------



## sokillme

Tron said:


> In cases where there are kids involved, there's a good bit of mutual respect and love and no abuse I'd suggest considering the other option. If there is good base to work from then it is in your child's best interest to at least consider it. At the end of the day, you are not the only one that you need to look out for..


Is there anything in this story that leads you to believe that was the case for her towards him? All I see is terrible abuse.


----------



## badmemory

scaredlion said:


> To use someone for sex when you are planning to get rid of them isn't near as bad as infidelity but it is a long way from being an acceptable and honorable act.


Is he using her for sex or is she trying to manipulate him? I don't feel sorry for her either way.


----------



## Tron

sokillme said:


> Is there anything in this story that leads you to believe that was the case for her towards him? All I see is terrible abuse.


She has a history of "terrible" abuse? I wasn't aware of that. Can you please point me to those post(s)?


----------



## sokillme

karole said:


> Seriously?


No, kind of a joke. But letting her know that sex is not going to get him back in whatever way he can is a good thing. She is trying to use sex as a way to get power and manipulate him (this seems to be her M.O. by the way) and that just shows how unsafe she is. It also shows she doesn't appreciate his pain or the boundaries he has put into affect. She really is not a good choice.


----------



## sokillme

Tron said:


> She has a history of "terrible" abuse? I wasn't aware of that. Can you please point me to those post(s)?


She cheated on him for a long period of time with a peer from his work. Are you serious? How many times has she lied to him for instance, just to start. How can you give advice when you don't even recognize that?


----------



## Malaise

I can't speak for @Tron but I believe he was asking if she had been abused, not if she was an abuser, which she was.


----------



## ABHale

scaredlion said:


> I have to say, in my opinion, if you are going to divorce someone you don't go have sex with them. In many places having sex with a WS is the same as forgiving them. You either still love your wife, and deep down don't really want to divorce, or you are weak when it comes to sex and you are a user. To use someone for sex when you are planning to get rid of them isn't near as bad as infidelity but it is a long way from being an acceptable and honorable act. If you really must have sex then find someone who you aren't planning to kick to the curb. If you still love her and don't really want to divorce, then do what is right for you and your family. Do you think she will ever do this again if you stay with her? If you answer with a YES, then you should divorce. Is she worth the risk of staying faithful? If it is yes, then maybe the risk is worth taking. Advice is sometimes a great help but, in the end, you have to make the decision that is best for you. There are many who wish their WS was remorseful and willing to R but the WS is soooo in love with their AP they want out. In such a situation I would recommend divorce also. I have a hard rule when it comes to R. NEVER LIVE WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LOVE YOU. If there is love then there's a chance. If some don't agree with your decision remember, no one can make you feel bad about yourself without your permission. I do wish you well.


Scuba didn’t use his wife for sex. 

Scuba openly says he still loves his wife but can’t stay married because of her actions. 

Scuba’s wife is actively pursuing Scuba to change his mind about leaving. Unlike earlier when Scuba found out and his WW tried to play down and lied about her affair, I believe she is actually remorseful now. She is doing anything she can to save her marriage including going after Scuba intimately. Scuba has shut her down several times leading up to this weekend. Scuba is not the one that took advantage of the situation, his WW did trying to change his mind about divorcing her. 

Here Scuba is hurting with no one he can really turn to for comfort. His little girl comes in and takes him into dinner, which he has been avoiding. It feels like old times and the night continues along those lines to it conclusion. So Scuba found some comfort after all this time sense DDay. Good for him. 

At the least it hasn’t turned his head. Dazzled and confused maybe but still on track. 

Personally I hope they do start dating again after the divorce. At least he will know if she is truly remorseful if she still pursues him during and afterwards.


----------



## Windwalker

scaredlion said:


> I have to say, in my opinion, if you are going to divorce someone you don't go have sex with them. In many places having sex with a WS is the same as forgiving them. You either still love your wife, and deep down don't really want to divorce, or you are weak when it comes to sex and you are a user. To use someone for sex when you are planning to get rid of them isn't near as bad as infidelity but it is a long way from being an acceptable and honorable act.


Steve has been straight from the time he has made the decision to divorce that, that was his final goal. He has had doubts, which are obvious from his posts. Although, I wouldn't allow myself around her if I were in his shoes, I can understand how it happened.

You are attempting to paint him is a light that I think is totally unfair. His weak point is obviously his child. He has stated that he loves his wife. Here's a totally weird idea, you can in fact love someone deeply and still need to divorce their lying cheating ass. Until the man says otherwise, to think that he doesn't want a divorce is pure speculation. He has continued to push for divorce.

She however, has continually tried to use sex as a weapon. She threw herself at him once already to try and put him in a ***** coma, and I have a suspicion that she was successfully this time. Let's just see if the coma part is true.


Still pulling for you Steve.


----------



## Windwalker

ABHale said:


> Scuba didn’t use his wife for sex.
> 
> Scuba openly says he still loves his wife but can’t stay married because of her actions.
> 
> Scuba’s wife is actively pursuing Scuba to change his mind about leaving. Unlike earlier when Scuba found out and his WW tried to play down and lied about her affair, I believe she is actually remorseful now. She is doing anything she can to save her marriage including going after Scuba intimately. Scuba has shut her down several times leading up to this weekend. Scuba is not the one that took advantage of the situation, his WW did trying to change his mind about divorcing her.
> 
> Here Scuba is hurting with no one he can really turn to for comfort. His little girl comes in and takes him into dinner, which he has been avoiding. It feels like old times and the night continues along those lines to it conclusion. So Scuba found some comfort after all this time sense DDay. Good for him.
> 
> At the least it hasn’t turned his head. Dazzled and confused maybe but still on track.


I agree with all this and you said it much better than I did.


----------



## MEM2020

Big shocker, that she reeled you in with one night of sex.

The big mess isn’t that you will reconcile - but that you will do so without addressing why she just isn’t that into you.

Half the lack of spark - is due to your lack of willingness to have difficult conversations.




Scuba_Steve said:


> Sadly i didn't. Let's just say I was using my second head.


----------



## re16

Scuba_Steve said:


> I really need to move out ASAP.


This. You need time away. Schedule a trip for the upcoming weekend.

Make sure to leave your ring behind.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba Steve,

You are in a marathon not a sprint. Take your time and get the result you need to heal. As my MC told my wife “Left foot, right foot, breathe, repeat”.


----------



## Windwalker

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Scuba Steve,
> 
> You are in a marathon not a sprint. Take your time and get the result you need to heal. As my MC told my wife “Left foot, right foot, breathe, repeat”.


Yes sir.
Your signature line says everything that needs to be said!


----------



## Sports Fan

So the female power of sex strikes again. Be careful Steve. She will try it again. You will be bombarded with Sex On Tap until she feels safe that you are not leaving her.


----------



## skerzoid

I have never seen a thread with such a sense of outrage. I am not sure what caused it. I guess the idea that Mrs. Steve would have sex with a wrinkled old man really caused Steve and many of us here on this thread, to have a sense of being emasculated. How could she do such a thing? How disgusting.

However, other than the age difference, this story just seems to be a run of the mill story of infidelity with the boss. I guess we've never run into such an outrageous thing before, right? To me, it sounds like a woman with father issues trying to have her cake & eat it too. And that in itself is a divorce-able offense, no doubt about it.

If Steve decides to divorce because of that, well, no one will judge him because of that. That is certainly his right and an obvious response to infidelity. As Steve said, she effectively ended the marriage when she had sex with another man.

But there are other factors to consider:

1. Steve has a two year old child. 

2. Steve still loves his wife despite her abuse of that love.

3. Mrs. Steve has done several things that indicate a possibility of remorse:
a.) She ended the affair before Steve discovered it.
b.) She quit her job without being told to (one the first things we always advise a BS to demand, "Otherwise the affair is still on!").
c.) She came up with a written plan of what she would do to be deserving of reconciliation. (We always say, "This is her job, not the husband's!" Well, she did this, even though we were never told what was in the proposal).
d.) She slept outside his office door when he refused her advances. I've never heard of that before myself, but many of you see that as manipulation. Maybe, maybe not. I myself have never been a mind reader like some of you claim to be, but it was still an unusual action.
e.) Steve has conquered the OM and gotten him fired from the company. This is a step towards getting back his self respect. I think he is effectively out of infidelity.
f.) Mrs. Steve and Steve may be going into a period of Hysterical Bonding. This may not be advisable, as you have pointed out, but it maybe something that he feels a viral need as taking back his territory. We can moan and groan till the cows come home about it, but what are you going to do about it? Its his business. 
g.) As I pointed out in an earlier post, it will be taken as "forgiveness" by the courts now, and he will need to use another tack.
h.) I myself advised him to keep the divorce going, but to watch her actions. This idea has been advised in many of these threads before, but seems to have caused some to lose their minds that he may not go through with the divorce. Once again, his business, not ours.
i.) I also would like to see her take a poly so that he has a better idea of what he is dealing with. As many have pointed out, she is a proven liar and really can't be trusted to tell all truth. She is definitely in CYA mode. 

These are my thoughts. Now after an earlier post, some of you referred to me by some unkind names because I wasn't being nice to Steve and might make him leave with my rudeness. I could really GAF. I don't post to help you, I try to help the OP.


----------



## Nucking Futs

skerzoid said:


> I have never seen a thread with such a sense of outrage. I am not sure what caused it. I guess the idea that Mrs. Steve would have sex with a wrinkled old man really caused Steve and many of us here on this thread, to have a sense of being emasculated. How could she do such a thing? How disgusting.
> 
> However, other than the age difference, this story just seems to be a run of the mill story of infidelity with the boss. I guess we've never run into such an outrageous thing before, right? To me, it sounds like a woman with father issues trying to have her cake & eat it too. And that in itself is a divorce-able offense, no doubt about it.
> 
> If Steve decides to divorce because of that, well, no one will judge him because of that. That is certainly his right and an obvious response to infidelity. As Steve said, she effectively ended the marriage when she had sex with another man.
> 
> But there are other factors to consider:
> 
> 1. Steve has a two year old child.
> 
> 2. Steve still loves his wife despite her abuse of that love.
> 
> 3. Mrs. Steve has done several things that indicate a possibility of remorse:
> a.) She ended the affair before Steve discovered it.
> b.) She quit her job without being told to (one the first things we always advise a BS to demand, "Otherwise the affair is still on!").
> c.) She came up with a written plan of what she would do to be deserving of reconciliation. (We always say, "This is her job, not the husband's!" Well, she did this, even though we were never told what was in the proposal).
> d.) She slept outside his office door when he refused her advances. I've never heard of that before myself, but many of you see that as manipulation. Maybe, maybe not. I myself have never been a mind reader like some of you claim to be, but it was still an unusual action.
> e.) Steve has conquered the OM and gotten him fired from the company. This is a step towards getting back his self respect. I think he is effectively out of infidelity.
> f.) Mrs. Steve and Steve may be going into a period of Hysterical Bonding. This may not be advisable, as you have pointed out, but it maybe something that he feels a viral need as taking back his territory. We can moan and groan till the cows come home about it, but what are you going to do about it? Its his business.
> *g.) As I pointed out in an earlier post, it will be taken as "forgiveness" by the courts now, and he will need to use another tack.*
> h.) I myself advised him to keep the divorce going, but to watch her actions. This idea has been advised in many of these threads before, but seems to have caused some to lose their minds that he may not go through with the divorce. Once again, his business, not ours.
> i.) I also would like to see her take a poly so that he has a better idea of what he is dealing with. As many have pointed out, she is a proven liar and really can't be trusted to tell all truth. She is definitely in CYA mode.
> 
> These are my thoughts. Now after an earlier post, some of you referred to me by some unkind names because I wasn't being nice to Steve and might make him leave with my rudeness. I could really GAF. I don't post to help you, I try to help the OP.


I agree with all but g and e. Not every state views sex as forgiveness, and in states that do it only matters if the divorce is filed for infidelity. I didn't see where Steve said he filed under infidelity. Doesn't mean he didn't, but I didn't see it. And I don't see that he's out of infidelity yet. He's still married, still living together, and just had sex with her. Not a criticism, just my view of reality.


----------



## oldtruck

skerzoid said:


> I have never seen a thread with such a sense of outrage. I am not sure what caused it. I guess the idea that Mrs. Steve would have sex with a wrinkled old man really caused Steve and many of us here on this thread, to have a sense of being emasculated. How could she do such a thing? How disgusting.
> 
> However, other than the age difference, this story just seems to be a run of the mill story of infidelity with the boss. I guess we've never run into such an outrageous thing before, right? To me, it sounds like a woman with father issues trying to have her cake & eat it too. And that in itself is a divorce-able offense, no doubt about it.
> 
> If Steve decides to divorce because of that, well, no one will judge him because of that. That is certainly his right and an obvious response to infidelity. As Steve said, she effectively ended the marriage when she had sex with another man.
> 
> But there are other factors to consider:
> 
> 1. Steve has a two year old child.
> 
> 2. Steve still loves his wife despite her abuse of that love.
> 
> 3. Mrs. Steve has done several things that indicate a possibility of remorse:
> a.) She ended the affair before Steve discovered it.
> b.) She quit her job without being told to (one the first things we always advise a BS to demand, "Otherwise the affair is still on!").
> c.) She came up with a written plan of what she would do to be deserving of reconciliation. (We always say, "This is her job, not the husband's!" Well, she did this, even though we were never told what was in the proposal).
> d.) She slept outside his office door when he refused her advances. I've never heard of that before myself, but many of you see that as manipulation. Maybe, maybe not. I myself have never been a mind reader like some of you claim to be, but it was still an unusual action.
> e.) Steve has conquered the OM and gotten him fired from the company. This is a step towards getting back his self respect. I think he is effectively out of infidelity.
> f.) Mrs. Steve and Steve may be going into a period of Hysterical Bonding. This may not be advisable, as you have pointed out, but it maybe something that he feels a viral need as taking back his territory. We can moan and groan till the cows come home about it, but what are you going to do about it? Its his business.
> g.) As I pointed out in an earlier post, it will be taken as "forgiveness" by the courts now, and he will need to use another tack.
> h.) I myself advised him to keep the divorce going, but to watch her actions. This idea has been advised in many of these threads before, but seems to have caused some to lose their minds that he may not go through with the divorce. Once again, his business, not ours.
> i.) I also would like to see her take a poly so that he has a better idea of what he is dealing with. As many have pointed out, she is a proven liar and really can't be trusted to tell all truth. She is definitely in CYA mode.
> 
> These are my thoughts. Now after an earlier post, some of you referred to me by some unkind names because I wasn't being nice to Steve and might make him leave with my rudeness. I could really GAF. I don't post to help you, I try to help the OP.


Good post. Appears to be a good candidate for recovery.

However what about the possible OM2? She went on a business trip with tattoo man and
she had brought condoms with her and one was used.

If I remember there was no poly talk about tattoo man and the condoms to rule those
things out. Grandpa OM could of bragged to tattoo OM that WW is easy. OM2 thought
then I have a shot at WW. I just have to get WW to go on a business trip with me.


----------



## Nucking Futs

oldtruck said:


> Good post. Appears to be a good candidate for recovery.
> 
> However what about the possible OM2? She went on a business trip with tattoo man and
> she had brought condoms with her and one was used.
> 
> If I remember there was no poly talk about tattoo man and the condoms to rule those
> things out. Grandpa OM could of bragged to tattoo OM that WW is easy. OM2 thought
> then I have a shot at WW. I just have to get WW to go on a business trip with me.


She would have to pass a poly first. It's pretty clear she's gotten good advice somewhere, as Skerzoid pointed out she's doing everything we would be telling her to do if she came here, and we would have told her to come completely clean about everything. I think she's probably been told that too, so if she's still lying about it now that would be the final nail in the coffin.


----------



## Beach123

I think a polygraph should be done.


----------



## re16

What Steve needs to consider is whether long term he can accept this, mind movies, triggers etc. I can tell you its tough, and my situation was not even close to as bad as Steve's.

He is being brought in by the allure of sex and the woman she used to be in his mind.

He can find another woman to provide the sex, and she won't come with the mind movie triggering baggage of Mrs. Steve.

The woman she was in his mind is long gone and he needs to get used to the idea that she is selfish cheater. Eventually that is how he will think of her.

All the stuff about her being remorseful etc and a good candidate for reconciliation, I don't buy it, she lied all the way through, even when it was all on the line.

I do believe that the written timeline (clarification - the second written timeline) Steve has in his possession is actually fully false, as he found she was with him way more than the 5 times that the timeline admitted to.

In my book, she has to come fully clean and truthful about everything before R is even discussed. We're not there yet.

I will also point out that pretty much every time she's admitted further details, Steve already knew them and coaxed it out of her. What about the stuff Steve doesn't know about? How he will get her to come clean on that.... he won't. Like how she knows about her other boss' covered tattoos. This is the kind of question that ripples through your mind years later... and you relive it all again.


----------



## ABHale

What everyone seems to be forgetting is the fact that Scuba and his WW have already sent the draft for the D to HER lawyer. Once drawn up Scuba will let his lawyer look it over. This will only be in court the day it is before a judge to finalize it. 

Scuba’s WW doesn’t want the D but is not giving him any problems with it.


----------



## ABHale

Why is everyone speculating on what Scuba is or isn’t doing. It’s like listening to a bunch of cackling hens. 

Why don’t we wait until Scuba is ready to let us know what his intentions are before we paint the wrong picture. He knows what his choices are at this time and it will take a little time for him to figure what he wants to do out. 

By his last post he is still divorcing his WW. He has done no harm to himself in this regard with being with her. They have turned into the lawyer the terms of the divorce already. 

No need to beat a dead horse. 

Hope your doing ok Scuba.


----------



## BluesPower

ABHale said:


> What everyone seems to be forgetting is the fact that Scuba and his WW have already sent the draft for the D to HER lawyer. Once drawn up Scuba will let his lawyer look it over. This will only be in court the day it is before a judge to finalize it.
> 
> Scuba’s WW doesn’t want the D but is not giving him any problems with it.


Agreed, Steve admitted that he was weak or at least he could not say no. I can't really say that I could blame him. 

But, Steve also said that afterwards, they talked and are proceeding with the divorce, and if his lawyer gives the OK, he wants to move out ASAP. 

But of course, it did shake him a little. And really, as strong as Steve has been, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he will make the best decision for himself in the long run. 

And you know, after what he has been through, who would not have at least been tempted by the situation. I would have been and frankly, I am not sure that I would not have done the same thing he did.


----------



## re16

ABHale said:


> What everyone seems to be forgetting is the fact that Scuba and his WW have already sent the draft for the D to HER lawyer. Once drawn up Scuba will let his lawyer look it over. This will only be in court the day it is before a judge to finalize it.
> 
> Scuba’s WW doesn’t want the D but is not giving him any problems with it.


True, but the fact that Steve gave in and had sex with her has us nervous.

The physical interaction gets the brain chemicals working and can cloud judgement.

This is why he needs to stay away from her or they'll end up in hysterical bonding, which is exactly her plan.

He needs to listen that song, "I put a spell on you" on repeat.


----------



## bandit.45

You want to reconcile Steve. Your brain is telling you no but your heart and pecker say yes. 

It’s okay if you choose to R. Just as long as it’s on your terms.


----------



## sa58

Wonder if she is still on birth control ?

And no Steve did not use his wife for sex.

That is what she allowed POSOM to do.

It is only about Steve and his daughter
and their future and happiness.


----------



## SunCMars

ABHale said:


> Why is everyone speculating on what Scuba is or isn’t doing. It’s like listening to a bunch of cackling hens.
> 
> Why don’t we wait until Scuba is ready to let us know what his intentions are before we paint the wrong picture. He knows what his choices are at this time and it will take a little time for him to figure what he wants to do out.
> 
> By his last post he is still divorcing his WW. He has done no harm to himself in this regard with being with her. They have turned into the lawyer the terms of the divorce already.
> 
> No need to beat a dead horse.
> 
> Hope your doing ok Scuba.


Ah, so painful.

Really Old Man bedding a younger women. The nerve.



Yep, it seems......
Scuba Steve listened to @Satya and is getting off the Turd Married Go-a-Round.


----------



## SunCMars

bandit.45 said:


> You want to reconcile Steve. Your brain is telling you no but your heart and pecker say yes.
> 
> It’s okay if you choose to R. Just as long as it’s on your terms.


Ah, you fools.

It is never on the man's terms.


Terms:
Scuba Steve's terms.
The WW's short-period, disadvantaged terms.
Their loving child's terms. 

Terms are as good as the disappearing ink that drafts them. Tears wash away one's term paper.
I know, he can divorce her later.


Nevertheless, R is possible.

Rather than R, I would divorce and live together if the love were 'really' strong. 
Only possible if love reigns supreme.


----------



## ABHale

re16 said:


> True, but the fact that Steve gave in and had sex with her has us nervous.
> 
> The physical interaction gets the brain chemicals working and can cloud judgement.
> 
> This is why he needs to stay away from her or they'll end up in hysterical bonding, which is exactly her plan.
> 
> He needs to listen that song, "I put a spell on you" on repeat.



Why should WE be nervous about what Steve does? We are here to give advice not our own worries.


----------



## Evinrude58

So a bettayed spouse does the smart thing and kicks their cheater to the curb and some people are now whining that he should reconcile?

Well, it’s his attitude of CYA that makes a reconciliation remotely possible.
OP has done the right thing and now has a choice. I think this is the perfect outcome.

I don’t really care what he chooses, but I’m glad he HAS a choice. Had he begged and pleaded and rug swept, there would be no chance of a reconciliation...
JMO..

I do think he should divorce her. She’s a liar and a cheat. Who wants to be married to that?


----------



## ABHale

SunCMars said:


> Ah, so painful.
> 
> Really Old Man bedding a younger women. The nerve.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, it seems......
> Scuba Steve listened to @Satya and is getting off the Turd Married Go-a-Round.


Ok I’m stumped in this one. Even turned my phone upside down to try and figure it out. :grin2:


----------



## SunCMars

ABHale said:


> Ok I’m stumped in this one. Even turned my phone upside down to try and figure it out. :grin2:


A prior poster, actually many prior posters criticized old men, particularly this Grandpa. Disparaged old men for being old goats.
Old, young, all still goats.

I took offense, cawse, I ain't young, am old!! :smile2:


Quote by SunCMars 


> Ah, so painful.
> 
> Really Old Man bedding a younger women. The nerve.
> 
> Yep, it seems......
> Scuba Steve listened to @Satya and is getting off the Turd Married Go-a-Round.


Cool quote by @Satya.


> Why are you still on this Turd Merry Go Round?


There, does that clear this up?
Your' welcome!


----------



## skerzoid

Beach123 said:


> I think a polygraph should be done.


Totally agree if he is even considering "R". If he is still strong on divorce, he still needs it done so he can tell if he would ever want to reconcile after "D". He needs the truth. Polys are not perfect but the US government still uses them. Also, there have been a lot of parking lot confessions involved with them.

4 suggested questions:

1. Since the marriage have there been any other romantic relations with people other than Steve & Grandpa?
2. Specifically, were there any inappropriate actions with tattoo boy?
3. Were you planning on leaving Steve for Grandpa?
4. Are you really "IN" love with Steve?

Any other suggestions?


----------



## re16

ABHale said:


> Why should WE be nervous about what Steve does? We are here to give advice not our own worries.


I guess I could have worded that better.

What I was trying say is that my opinion is that Steve is getting sucked into a common wayward strategy by his wife throwing herself at him so he'll feel better about her cheating and give her another chance.

My advice is that he stay away from her and not let that cloud his judgement.

He's been strong up until that point.


----------



## sa58

I think Steve's wife has been and still is trying 
to manipulate the situation. Steve's first post
was on 03/01/2018. The weekend before 
she went out at 10 am and returned at 6 pm
Late FEB.

How long did she keep her phone under her pillow 
and by her side in March ? Steve did not confront her 
until he found the condoms. She went to her mothers 
house. She probably cleaned her phone there.

Her first timeline was a lie. She did not give Steve 
access to her phone until she wiped it clean correct ?
Is it possible the affair was still going on until Steve
confronted her. I think her second timeline is probably
a lie also. And why was she so interested in her 
tattoo boss and know so much about him?

Steve did not try and recover data from her phone.
Steve should look at her phone now and see who
she may be in contact with still. 

She seems to be trying to get Steve (food and sex)
to just forget everything. She has said she would get IC
for her issues. Her issues (daddy or whatever) family's also are
something Steve really needs to consider as well. 

As I posted earlier is she still on birth control Steve ?

These are just a few of the things that I find troubling 
about his wife. As I have posted before Steve needs to be careful
because I think she is still trying to manipulate this 
situation for herself.

I hope you are doing well Steve


----------



## skerzoid

sa58 said:


> I think Steve's wife has been and still is trying
> to manipulate the situation. Steve's first post
> was on 03/01/2018. The weekend before
> she went out at 10 am and returned at 6 pm
> Late FEB.
> 
> How long did she keep her phone under her pillow
> and by her side in March ? Steve did not confront her
> until he found the condoms. She went to her mothers
> house. She probably cleaned her phone there.
> 
> Her first timeline was a lie. She did not give Steve
> access to her phone until she wiped it clean correct ?
> Is it possible the affair was still going on until Steve
> confronted her. I think her second timeline is probably
> a lie also. And why was she so interested in her
> tattoo boss and know so much about him?
> 
> Steve did not try and recover data from her phone.
> Steve should look at her phone now and see who
> she may be in contact with still.
> 
> She seems to be trying to get Steve (food and sex)
> to just forget everything. She has said she would get IC
> for her issues. Her issues (daddy or whatever) family's also are
> something Steve really needs to consider as well.
> 
> As I posted earlier is she still on birth control Steve ?
> 
> These are just a few of the things that I find troubling
> about his wife. As I have posted before Steve needs to be careful
> because I think she is still trying to manipulate this
> situation for herself.
> 
> I hope you are doing well Steve


All these questions are why a poly needs to be done.


----------



## sokillme

Let the guy divorce like he has said 3 times he is going to do. He will have a happier life much faster.


----------



## ABHale

re16 said:


> I guess I could have worded that better.
> 
> What I was trying say is that my opinion is that Steve is getting sucked into a common wayward strategy by his wife throwing herself at him so he'll feel better about her cheating and give her another chance.
> 
> My advice is that he stay away from her and not let that cloud his judgement.
> 
> He's been strong up until that point.


There is no way to feel better about someone cheating on you unless you’re into that sort of thing. 

I never advocate R on any thread. I believe divorce will always bring out the true feelings of a cheater. 

Cheaters lie and deceive those they are with. Why would that part of their nature not play a part in them trying to R if it is in their best interest. I believe once they realize that divorce will be the out come their true feelings will come out. They will either be hell bent on destroying the BS or still continue to show true remorse and do what the BS needs in a respectful manner. Steve’s WW has done nothing against Steve sense she has realized the full impact of her actions. Is she trying to win Steve back, yes she most definitely is. At the same time she is giving Steve what he has requested, a divorce. She has not gone bat **** crazy on him like we all have either seen or read about when the WS realize it all over time to fight for oneself. 

I have respect for Steve’s wife and the way she has acted here lately. She made the choice to cheat and now she has made the choice to take responsibility for her actions. She is one of two that I have read about here on TAM that I believe have actually earned a second chance after the divorce. Then only if Steve is able to do so. There are some guys that just can’t get past something like this. I don’t believe I ever could.


----------



## Nucking Futs

ABHale said:


> There is no way to feel better about someone cheating on you unless you’re into that sort of thing.
> 
> I never advocate R on any thread. I believe divorce will always bring out the true feelings of a cheater.
> 
> Cheaters lie and deceive those they are with. Why would that part of their nature not play a part in them trying to R if it is in their best interest. I believe once they realize that divorce will be the out come their true feelings will come out. They will either be hell bent on destroying the BS or still continue to show true remorse and do what the BS needs in a respectful manner. Steve’s WW has done nothing against Steve sense she has realized the full impact of her actions. Is she trying to win Steve back, yes she most definitely is. At the same time she is giving Steve what he has requested, a divorce. She has not gone bat **** crazy on him like we all have either seen or read about when the WS realize it all over time to fight for oneself.
> 
> I have respect for Steve’s wife and the way she has acted here lately. She made the choice to cheat and now she has made the choice to take responsibility for her actions. *She is one of two that I have read about here on TAM that I believe have actually earned a second chance after the divorce.* Then only if Steve is able to do so. There are some guys that just can’t get past something like this. I don’t believe I ever could.


I agree with all but the bolded. Seems I've been nitpicking posts lately, but I don't think R is something that can be earned. Or deserved. I think she's working hard in hopes he might _gift_ her with another chance. To say that she earned it is to say Steve is obligated to give it to her. And there is no way in hell that any WS is obligated to R with a WS.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

bandit.45 said:


> You want to reconcile Steve. Your brain is telling you no but your heart and pecker say yes.
> 
> It’s okay if you choose to R. Just as long as it’s on your terms.



Pretty much, but i trust my brain over my heart so D it is. It makes the most sense right now.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> Pretty much, but i trust my brain over my heart so D it is. It makes the most sense right now.


Most of us have known this from way back in your thread. *YOU * have to do what's best for you, Steve. If your brain says no, then do it. In the end, you are the one that has to live your life. We are just here to support you and to bounce ideas of of.

Stay strong and continue the path out of infidelity.
Churchill said it best about going through hell.
Keep walking trooper!


----------



## Scuba_Steve

My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af. 

I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with. 

My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that. 

The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.


----------



## hardwired

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.
> 
> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.
> 
> The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.


That's a form of hysterical bonding...personally I think it's a terrible idea if you're going to D. And the having to wear a condom thing...yuck. I think sleeping with her is unhealthy and will make it far more difficult for you to have a clean break. And if I were you I would definitely divorce her. Just my opinion, good luck bro.


----------



## Marc878

Sex is a form of barter for your wife. She used it with the OM.

Keep it up and you’ll fold like a deck of cards.

She knows exactly what shes doing here.

Wake up


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.
> 
> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.
> 
> The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.


The divorce bothers your wife. She is just too proud to show it. The condoms drive the point home. You absolutely sure she is on birth control? Not saying she is evil but her calculus might be I want another baby and it should be with same Dad even if we are divorced raising them. 

OM must have put it all together now, your wife leaving the firm and him getting the ax a few weeks later. You wife must have told him not withstanding her denials etc. After all she admitted she was falling for him. Haven't you told OM's wife yet? 

Stay the course. Pretty normal for her to love and sex bomb you to maintain the status quo. Pretty normal for you to want to take back what was yours. Be smart overall, you know what you can live with in the future, the future being getting flooded with doubts over yourself and anger over what she did.


----------



## Windwalker

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.
> 
> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.
> 
> The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.



The only thing I will say is that you are playing with some serious ass fire. Might as well juggle unstable sticks of dynamite. 

I don't trust that she's on BC. And if the condom just happens to magically break and she ends up pregnant, then what? You wife has a well documented history of using sex as a weapon, as a form of leverage.

Stay safe, Steve.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

I thought you were thinking with the big head now. I guess not

Of course she is unhappy with the condoms, sure she is on BC.
Soon the condoms will not be used I bet. I know it is hard to 
stop sleeping with her but maybe she is pulling you back in
slowly but surely. 

This will make it harder to divorce and she knows it.
Will you be able to forget what she has done and 
stay or not ? If you decide to stay polygraph and
find the answers to our questions. (earlier posts)
Just be sure you decide what is right for you and your 
daughter. Sounds like you have not really made up your 
mind.

I agree 100% with wind walker playing with fire might get 
burned.


----------



## oldtruck

No reason you cannot have sex,
divorce her,
then date her to give her the opportunity to
show that she can do the work to recover.

Old men have told many a young man
do not bite your nose to spite your face.


----------



## sa58

What do you do when the really hot/great sex
starts to fade ? It will sooner than later. 
Will it be back to the same routine ?


----------



## ButtPunch

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.
> 
> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.
> 
> The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.


SS

You are in no hurry to make any decisions that will have long term affects on your
life and that of your two year old daughter. 

I have been in your shoes. I think alot like you do.

I remember my DDay was on a Friday evening and my wife was out of my house 
and in a hotel, and I was waiting on my Lawyer to get out of her car Monday morning
without even having an appointment to start the divorce.

(I have a thread here but it's long as f)

What I learned from my ordeal is that whatever happens is that I was going to be ok.
My kids were going to be ok.

It has been over six years now. I have reconciled and my wife has done everything in her power
to make amends. Will I ever trust her blindly as I did before. Probably not that kind of trust
is naive anyway. I will tell you this however, her actions years ago have zero power over me.
I control how I feel. I control my happiness. 

My point is take your time. Keep the divorce rolling but keep an open mind. 

Is your WW seeing a counselor to determine what caused her to make these terrible choices? 

I would give her a nudge in that direction.


----------



## Beach123

It is hysterical bonding. Your wife is using sex with you to manipulate your mindset with the D. She's a master - she was able to have sex with an old man to get ahead in the business world (or so she thought).

Has she looked for new work? You know if she's not working you pay more support money to her, right? 

Do you know if the old mans wife was notified? SHE needs to know why he was let go and what her husband is capable of.

Continuing to have sex with your wife is sure to confuse your mental clarity - your wife k owe this and is using sex like a weapon to have you stay.

IF she was capable of amazing sex all along - then why haven't you gotten that same brand of sex every week since you married her?

If I were you I'd be damn mad at her!


----------



## libertarian

Ill say the same thing here as everywhere else. 

Do not tip her off, instead gather evidence. Its very difficult but its the best way to proceed. 
your boss is obviously an asshat. 

safeguard your finances, hit the gym, build your case and let her think you are stupid. do not tell her about what you've been finding. save that for divorce court and you will be able rebuild your life easier. find a different job. 

when she does leave, file abandonment charges right away, get a lawyer and if you have kids be ready to fight for custody. 

this strategy is the best because you have the power. and if it works itself out you can abort mission and it will be as though it never happened. you cant stop her from having an affair, but you can stop yourself from being torn apart financially and mentally. get a hardware keylogger on the home computer. save all the passwords. back up the incriminating evidence you find. get a hidden camera and install it in the hallways of your house so you know who is coming and going when youre not around. take a few days to go visit your mother and see what happends.


----------



## satphil

libertarian said:


> Ill say the same thing here as everywhere else.
> 
> Do not tip her off, instead gather evidence. Its very difficult but its the best way to proceed.
> your boss is obviously an asshat.
> 
> safeguard your finances, hit the gym, build your case and let her think you are stupid. do not tell her about what you've been finding. save that for divorce court and you will be able rebuild your life easier. find a different job.
> 
> when she does leave, file abandonment charges right away, get a lawyer and if you have kids be ready to fight for custody.
> 
> this strategy is the best because you have the power. and if it works itself out you can abort mission and it will be as though it never happened. you cant stop her from having an affair, but you can stop yourself from being torn apart financially and mentally. get a hardware keylogger on the home computer. save all the passwords. back up the incriminating evidence you find. get a hidden camera and install it in the hallways of your house so you know who is coming and going when youre not around. take a few days to go visit your mother and see what happends.


Excellent suggestions, pity it's about 1600 posts late.


----------



## jlg07

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is *some of the best we have ever had* and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.


She is *****-bombing you hoping you will change your mind. The sex is better because she is trying to all out to convince you to not divorce her. I really hope you are strong enough to resist this if you still want to divorce her. Has she been tested for STD's? Did you find out if the old OM is the ONLY one she cheated with (I know there were concerns about the guy with tatoos that she shouldn't have been able to see ordinarily). I know you are sending a message with the condoms, but I'm just worried for you that with the new hormones re-creating that love link, you may give in and not divorce her.


----------



## Beach123

I'm wondering... did you cut off your wife's credit cards? Money supply that you share? Have you separated ALL finances with her?

You see, your wife is now trying to be sure she doesn't have consequences from her bad behavior.

She may not have her job right now...but she still wants access to money and her cozy home, right?

Since you intend to divorce her why haven't you implemented harsh consequences yet? Why hasn't she moved? Why does she still get daily access to you? Why aren't you doing more to protect yourself and your future?


----------



## Openminded

Sex with someone you plan to divorce is a huge mistake -- especially when it's hysterical bonding and that's what you're doing. She's betting it will make you change your mind and she may not be wrong.


----------



## badmemory

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed.


If you are still planning on divorcing her, I suggest you tell your attorney this. In some states, the Court will not grant a D under these circumstances.


----------



## Evinrude58

1). It’s awesome the OM was gored and not allowed to quit.

However, I personally would want that asshoke to know I did it, after him having his way with my own wife.

2). I hope you tell the OM’s wife. She should know and again, that rat bastard should know you’re the one who told her.
Let him do whatever he can if he wants. Crush him.

3). Your wife is definitely using sex to keep you from divorcing her. And that would bother me. I really think if it keeps happening, you’re gonna stay marrried.
If so, that may not be so bad. But you’ll have to look over your shoulder and likely wonder if she really loves you. It would be tough.

I think she’s deciding for you.


----------



## Primrose

Your wife is going to "accidentally" (on purpose) forget a few pills and low and behold, now you owe child support for two children instead of just one, making it even harder than it already is to leave. 

Sex is always better after betrayal is made known. Hysterical bonding. Google it.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

1. Vasectomy- You got your kids, either way...Its gonna be expensive. Don't need any other chitlins compounding the issues right now.

2. Hysterical Bonding- The way I hear it...It isn't all bad and unheard of. Just go into it with Eyes Open! You are a human and a male....I get ya! Just be careful.

3. Continue with D- Even if it's a symbolic way to show the past marriage is dead. Destroyed by her infidelity. Nothing said you can't start dating her again. And rebuilding a better trusting relationship with better boundaries....

4. Counselling- Must have a "outside" view to keep things in perspective and grounded. Do it for you, not you guys the couple. Grow and be better for you. This is paramount. 

5. Keep financials separate. Do not be the white knight with heavy pockets.... It's too easy of a temptation to be taken advantage of.

6. Realize that even if she starts up with another affair or OM...You are gonna be okay, you do what YOU do. And nobody else can take that away from you.


----------



## skerzoid

libertarian said:


> Ill say the same thing here as everywhere else.
> 
> Do not tip her off, instead gather evidence. Its very difficult but its the best way to proceed.
> your boss is obviously an asshat.
> 
> safeguard your finances, hit the gym, build your case and let her think you are stupid. do not tell her about what you've been finding. save that for divorce court and you will be able rebuild your life easier. find a different job.
> 
> when she does leave, file abandonment charges right away, get a lawyer and if you have kids be ready to fight for custody.
> 
> this strategy is the best because you have the power. and if it works itself out you can abort mission and it will be as though it never happened. you cant stop her from having an affair, but you can stop yourself from being torn apart financially and mentally. get a hardware keylogger on the home computer. save all the passwords. back up the incriminating evidence you find. get a hidden camera and install it in the hallways of your house so you know who is coming and going when youre not around. take a few days to go visit your mother and see what happends.


How much of the post have you read?


----------



## alte Dame

I, for one, want to hear the details about the OM's firing, not because he's a randy old goat, but that he's an old creep. And I'm an older woman, so I get to say that....

I don't think it's ever too late to visit comeuppance on people who deserve it. This POS has probably spent his whole adult life wrecking other people's lives.


----------



## Marc878

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife and I are still having sex and sleeping in the same bed. Originally it was our old bedroom but now it’s in the room I moved into. I have been telling myself I’m going to stop but I can’t control myself around her. It doesn’t help that the sex is some of the best we have ever had and every time I come home she looks hot af.
> 
> I don’t think I’m using her for sex. I do feel somewhat guilty about it since I still plan is still go through with D and my wife knows is. It doesn’t seem to bother her maybe it does and just isn’t saying anything. I want to stop but like I said it hard I still love her. She was the first women I have ever loved, she was my first real girlfriend not someone I just slept with.
> 
> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.
> 
> The OM has been fired. His friend the CEO did the honors. The best part is no one knows I had anything to do with it. Apparently not even the OM, my friend has told me he had multiply warning for inappropriate behavior or language, but he doesn’t know anything besides that. My friend and I are planning to meet with his dad to watch the game later. I’m going to ask him for the full story about OM.


SS you wouldn't be the first one to find out your wife is pregnant again. My brother thought his crazy X couldn't get pregnant until she did. He let his **** overrule his brain just like you're doing. :surprise:


----------



## Windwalker

Primrose said:


> Your wife is going to "accidentally" (on purpose) forget a few pills and low and behold, now you owe child support for two children instead of just one, making it even harder than it already is to leave.
> 
> Sex is always better after betrayal is made known. Hysterical bonding. Google it.


This 10,000 times!
I would be willing to put money on this.


----------



## just got it 55

SS unless you can get to the mindset of using your WW for sex and just thinking of her as a Kum Dumpster Stop with the sex if you are even just considering D.

I don't think you are "that guy"

55


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> My wife is on birth control and we have stared using condoms again. She wasn’t happy about that.


This is excellent. I'm glad you took my advice. Not only does it prevent her from tricking you and getting pregnant it sends a message.

Things are not back to normal. There is a literal wall between you. That's one of the reasons she wasn't happy about it.

Have all the sex you want. She serviced the OM with a condom and no future with him. Why can't she do the same for you?:grin2::grin2:


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Beach123 said:


> It is hysterical bonding. Your wife is using sex with you to manipulate your mindset with the D. She's a master - she was able to have sex with an old man to get ahead in the business world (or so she thought).
> 
> Has she looked for new work? You know if she's not working you pay more support money to her, right?
> 
> Do you know if the old mans wife was notified? SHE needs to know why he was let go and what her husband is capable of.
> 
> Continuing to have sex with your wife is sure to confuse your mental clarity - your wife k owe this and is using sex like a weapon to have you stay.
> 
> IF she was capable of amazing sex all along - then why haven't you gotten that same brand of sex every week since you married her?
> 
> If I were you I'd be damn mad at her!


I'm in no way shape or form am I supporting my wife. She's on her own, the only i help is when it comes to our daughter. 

I agree sex is making things blurry. Nothing is as clear as it was a week ago.

I sent an email to his wife but never received a reply from her.

Last part I think is a little unfair to to my wife. We've always had a great sex life that's never been a problem. The sex we are having now is more intense and I've been more aggressive lately which I think turns her on, that's what she says.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Ok divorce is going to happen. It’s done for the most part. Her lawyer is writing up settlement papers, once my wife receives the settlement from her lawyer I’m sending it to my lawyer. My lawyer going to look it over and if everything is what we agreed to then it’s only a waiting game to have the judge sign off and that’s it we are done. And my lawyer has already told me once I agree to settlement I can move out. I’ve done what I can to protect myself and my daughter. My wife has made the divorce as easy as it can be.

Maybe I’m being naive but I think some post about my wife aren’t fair. She never used sex to get ahead or for promotion. It doesn’t change what she did or makes it better but to call her a master manipulator is a little much and I don’t view us having sex as her manipulating me. I know what she trying do and what she wants. She doesn’t want a divorce, she wants us to say together. Why am I even letting her try is the question.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Like I said...Nothing wrong with STARTING OVER. While she is your ex, date and get to know each other if that is what you want...The control is back to you. But like we all have been saying...When it comes to sex, Stay smart. No glove, no love. (Seriously think Vas if you are up to it...)


----------



## stro

Yeah I don’t blame her. She desperately wants to keep her family together and she is using every tool in her tool box.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

alte Dame said:


> I, for one, want to hear the details about the OM's firing, not because he's a randy old goat, but that he's an old creep. And I'm an older woman, so I get to say that....
> 
> I don't think it's ever too late to visit comeuppance on people who deserve it. This POS has probably spent his whole adult life wrecking other people's lives.


Our company has a 3 strike rule, 3 warnings from HR and you are fired. Well it turns out from 2008-2015 he had 2 warnings about his behavior. From 2015 till now he has 7 warnings he should've been fired a long time ago but his friend was protecting him. Once my friends dad let's call him boss man found out it was a done deal. He wasn't having him work for his company. 

His friend who's the CEO is also in deep **** now. The board has started an investigation into what kind of behavior he was ignoring. Apparently things have gotten pretty bad. The investigation just started so I don't know to much about it but it looks bad. It looks like CEO and grandpa created a toxic work environment. I think most of you have figured that out already.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

You are more active and the sex is more intense, this is what she likes. This is simply nothing more then the cave man coming out in you. Like you are reclaiming your woman, to me that’s normal for the male to respond in such a manner. Here’s the issue that should concern you, it’s making moving forward blurry now. It’s not why are you letting her try, it’s the fact that you’ve had sex, you are reclaiming what’s yours, and it’s blurred your vision. If you have listened to why she wants to stay married, why she is being amicable in the divorce, and why she is having sex and now in your room is letting her try. 

Scuba, if the future is blurred by having sex a few times, then I ask you, are you sure divorce is the answer. I really hate to say that scuba, but I want your decision made from a position of strength. If you are blurred after having sex, then your decision may not be from a position of strength. You have your divorce started, you can take your time until you truly believe your decision is what you want without being blurred.


----------



## Nucking Futs

He just said the divorce is going through and he's moving out. He's got this, relax.


----------



## Evinrude58

My 2 cents:

She deserves a divorce. If she is willing and Steve is willing, they can live together after.
I don’t think it would be wise for Steve to ever marry her again.

Divorce is the only reasonable response to an affair. Marriage is for faithful people who are loyal and believe strongly in marriage. She doesn’t, lets face it. She didn’t even love the AP, buy her own confession. She said she was scared she was ABOUT to fall in love with him. She cheated for sport.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I've heard a lot of guys describe it as "angry" sex. And wife liked it every time. That's just my experience, from people I know.

If you think she is not trying to manipulate you or that part of the when deal with gramps was preferential treatment, I think you are naive in that area. 

When I say "manipulate," it's not an evil act against you to ruin you. But it is an action to further her goal.


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok divorce is going to happen. It’s done for the most part. Her lawyer is writing up settlement papers, once my wife receives the settlement from her lawyer I’m sending it to my lawyer. My lawyer going to look it over and if everything is what we agreed to then it’s only a waiting game to have the judge sign off and that’s it we are done. And my lawyer has already told me once I agree to settlement I can move out. I’ve done what I can to protect myself and my daughter. My wife has made the divorce as easy as it can be.
> 
> Maybe I’m being naive but I think some post about my wife aren’t fair. She never used sex to get ahead or for promotion. It doesn’t change what she did or makes it better but to call her a master manipulator is a little much and I don’t view us having sex as her manipulating me. I know what she trying do and what she wants. She doesn’t want a divorce, she wants us to say together. Why am I even letting her try is the question.


1. The reason you are letting her is that you still love her. You are enraged that she did this thing to "US", but you still deep down love her. You still see the woman that you fell in love with.

2. You are actually luckier than most. Your wife is doing everything she can to fix this. Most betrayed husbands that still love their wives are heart broken and would give anything to get their betrayed spouses to do the things she is doing. She seems outwardly very remorseful. This is probably because of the strength with which you have acted and the steps you have taken to take back what is yours. Even though you still love her, you have been an Alpha male in this. Women are drawn to Strength, Courage, and Decisiveness. You have shown all of these in abundance. She is terrified she is going to lose you through her own stupidity. She has F'ed up bad and she knows it. 

2.. Most people kid themselves about starting over after a divorce. Many posters say this is an option, but it rarely works that way. Either you or she or both of you will move on. Therefore, either "D" with this as the end of the relationship or "R" knowing that this is a risky and grueling process that will take years and isn't guaranteed to work. There ain't no easy road. 

3. You know your wife better than any poster here. Most of us are victims of infidelity. We project our experiences onto you. Also, most of us have read these stories over and over. My own personal feeling is that she allowed herself to to get close to someone, and it turned into a slippery slope that was her downfall. Then you found out, and she had her "OMG, what have I done?" moment. I don't think the affair was planned but she didn't plan on getting caught and she was weak & let it happen. She is now devastated that she has ruined her life, your life, and worst of all, her child's life. 

4. I blame her for being weak enough to allow this to happen, but I don't blame her for doing everything in her power to try and save this. I don't see it as being evil and manipulative, but as being lost and desperate to save "Us". Thats why these stories of infidelity are so sad, because they are senseless. You are trying to balance out an equation. You can't do it. There are really only two choices; You either move on with divorce knowing the pain that you, she, and your child will experience, OR, you forgive her and move on with her knowing that it will be a painful road also that has no guarantee of success. The "divorce and then date" seems to be a fantasy. I would consider my options while moving towards the final declaration. But I wouldn't make any plans for a relationship other than co-parenting after that.


----------



## sa58

Steve 

The reason you are letting her try and use what ever
to stay together is because part of you loves this 
person or more importantly who you thought she was.
As you have said she was your first true love correct ?
That and the sex will make it harder for you to decide.
This type of sex will cease in time however.

As for why she had sex with the POSOM only she really
knows. She may and has said different things but only she 
knows why. It maybe because of past family issues and require 
IC. Has she discussed IC with you ? 

She quit her job, the OM has been fired not because of his
affair with your wife. My question is who besides you has 
paid any price for this? You suffered and probably still do
Can she get another job, with family connections yes.
Can the OM probably get another job with connections
Probably yes. 

In any type of situation like this unless the WW pays 
some type of price I believe they will cheat again. R/D
since things are cloudy and confused now is still your 
choice. You should I believe if things get more confusing 
for you at least try and get a polygraph test done so
maybe you can see things clearer. 

If you continue with the divorce ( I think you should)
then you can always date and see each other and 
make her earn your trust and love again. I have know
a few couples in my time who after many years 
realized they belonged together after all. 
Since you and her are still sleeping together 
and having sex I wonder if there are grounds
for a divorce. She could now probably stop 
it if she tried.

Sorry it has gotten more confusing and 
painful but we have all been threw it or 
seen it ourselves. 



I hope for the best for you and your daughter.


----------



## Malaise

stro said:


> Yeah I don’t blame her. She desperately wants to keep her family together and she is using every tool in her tool box.


If she wanted, really wanted, to keep the family together, she wouldn't have cheated.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> Our company has a 3 strike rule, 3 warnings from HR and you are fired. Well it turns out from 2008-2015 he had 2 warnings about his behavior. From 2015 till now he has 7 warnings he should've been fired a long time ago but his friend was protecting him. Once my friends dad let's call him boss man found out it was a done deal. He wasn't having him work for his company.
> 
> His friend who's the CEO is also in deep **** now. The board has started an investigation into what kind of behavior he was ignoring. Apparently things have gotten pretty bad. The investigation just started so I don't know to much about it but it looks bad. It looks like CEO and grandpa created a toxic work environment. I think most of you have figured that out already.


Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Unfortunately your wife contributed to that that toxic environment, people probably knew and were upset what was happening. In a way it forces people to have to cover when you both work there and they know it's going on. Someone like me would be pissed if I had to watch that going on. Also I am sure there were other women who got the impression she was using sex to get ahead, even if she wasn't it's not a unrealistic assumption. 

I wonder if they will take care of you since you are a victim in all this. 

Did you tell his wife? 

Keep being strong your recovery will come faster because of it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Scuba_Steve said:


> Ok divorce is going to happen. It’s done for the most part. Her lawyer is writing up settlement papers, once my wife receives the settlement from her lawyer I’m sending it to my lawyer. My lawyer going to look it over and if everything is what we agreed to then it’s only a waiting game to have the judge sign off and that’s it we are done. And my lawyer has already told me once I agree to settlement I can move out. I’ve done what I can to protect myself and my daughter. My wife has made the divorce as easy as it can be.
> 
> Maybe I’m being naive but I think some post about my wife aren’t fair. She never used sex to get ahead or for promotion. It doesn’t change what she did or makes it better but to call her a master manipulator is a little much and I don’t view us having sex as her manipulating me. I know what she trying do and what she wants. She doesn’t want a divorce, she wants us to say together. Why am I even letting her try is the question.


Why the hell are you defending her? You dont even KNOW her. I bet you NEVER thought she could possibly be capable of screwing another man, yet, here you are! Im sure you always thought, oh not my wife, she would never/doesnt have time/whatever... She IS manipulating you. And you are rewarding her for screwing another man, though Im sure you dont see it that way, but that is the reality.


----------



## stillthinking

Hey, she cheated. Its a deal breaker for you. The divorce train will be pulling up to the station soon.

If you are getting some great sex on your way out, so be it. 

In a way its like when a restaurant messes up your dinner, and offers you a free desert to try and smooth things over. Even if you are never going to return to the restaurant, you still enjoy the sundae. Or in this case....pie. (Insert Quagmire "Giggity" here)


----------



## manfromlamancha

So do you think you would continue dating her after the divorce to see if she has really changed ?


----------



## Lostinthought61

SS, 

There is no rule that you have to stop seeing her after your divorce, if you both want to be together after the divorce that is up to the both of you, the point of the divorce is that this marriage is dead, and she killed it. Depending on how you split the assets you can still live under that same roof if you both elect to do so, but i suspect over time this hysterical bonding on her part and maybe your part will dissipate and both of you will be ready to move, time will tell. For now let the divorce happen and then see where your relationship takes you. you will not be the first person to re-marry your ex...but i think it might do you good to live alone for a bit.


----------



## RWB

SEX...

The crypto-universal "Bitcoin" currency that rules the male world. And, all the secret Federal Reserve Governors are female.

Watch out SS, your financial futures contracts are being shorted on the marriage exchange.


----------



## Gabriel

skerzoid said:


> 1. The reason you are letting her is that you still love her. You are enraged that she did this thing to "US", but you still deep down love her. You still see the woman that you fell in love with.
> 
> 2. You are actually luckier than most. Your wife is doing everything she can to fix this. Most betrayed husbands that still love their wives are heart broken and would give anything to get their betrayed spouses to do the things she is doing. She seems outwardly very remorseful. This is probably because of the strength with which you have acted and the steps you have taken to take back what is yours. Even though you still love her, you have been an Alpha male in this. Women are drawn to Strength, Courage, and Decisiveness. You have shown all of these in abundance. She is terrified she is going to lose you through her own stupidity. She has F'ed up bad and she knows it.
> 
> 2.. Most people kid themselves about starting over after a divorce. Many posters say this is an option, but it rarely works that way. Either you or she or both of you will move on. Therefore, either "D" with this as the end of the relationship or "R" knowing that this is a risky and grueling process that will take years and isn't guaranteed to work. There ain't no easy road.
> 
> 3. You know your wife better than any poster here. Most of us are victims of infidelity. We project our experiences onto you. Also, most of us have read these stories over and over. My own personal feeling is that she allowed herself to to get close to someone, and it turned into a slippery slope that was her downfall. Then you found out, and she had her "OMG, what have I done?" moment. I don't think the affair was planned but she didn't plan on getting caught and she was weak & let it happen. She is now devastated that she has ruined her life, your life, and worst of all, her child's life.
> 
> 4. I blame her for being weak enough to allow this to happen, but I don't blame her for doing everything in her power to try and save this. I don't see it as being evil and manipulative, but as being lost and desperate to save "Us". Thats why these stories of infidelity are so sad, because they are senseless. You are trying to balance out an equation. You can't do it. There are really only two choices; You either move on with divorce knowing the pain that you, she, and your child will experience, OR, you forgive her and move on with her knowing that it will be a painful road also that has no guarantee of success. The "divorce and then date" seems to be a fantasy. I would consider my options while moving towards the final declaration. But I wouldn't make any plans for a relationship other than co-parenting after that.


This is a great post. It has exactly summed up the situation. Steve, read this over and over.


----------



## alte Dame

I think a lot of this is semantics. Is it manipulation on her part? Or a Hail Mary pass? Or is she 'fighting for her marriage'?

The result is the same - she is using sex as a last-ditch effort to get you to change your mind. Sometimes this works. It may well work with you in the end. There's no law that says that the two of you can't 'kiss and make up.'

However....the more you protest that the D is still going to happen, all the while having the best sex you've had in years, the greater 1) your confusion, 2) the loss of your resolve, 3) the renewal of tender feelings for her, and 4) the chance that you will lose respect for yourself in the end.

You have been living a soap opera with your WW and just when you find some clarity, the drama gets stirred up again.

I don't think you will forgive yourself easily if the sex weakens your determination to take a stand for yourself. I could be wrong, of course. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## bandit.45

I'm going against the current here and I will say that if you and your WW are having enjoyable sex then continue doing so. As long as you make it clear to her that you are ending the marriage, then I don't think there is anything wrong with it. If you can objectify it, then enjoy it for what it is. You are husband and wife until the ink is dry on the judge's signature. 

Continue on with the divorce and work towards separation. The hysterical bonding will die down eventually. Think of all this hot sex as the last hurrah before you and your WW go your separate ways. Just make sure you don't knock her up.


----------



## bigfoot

Here is my not so original summary of what is going on:

Hysterical bonding and reclaiming your mate. It happens. You don't have to like it, understand it, or care. It just happens. Sometimes early after Dday, sometimes later. It does cloud things. You are having sex with your spouse, it feels good, it feels natural, but there is the whole cheating thing. Love-Hate-anger-mine-, etc. It happens.

Cloudy: It happens. Kids, lifestyle, future, past, is she worth it, are you worth it, is the marriage worth it, is the divorce worth it, is it worth divorce, so many questions. It happens. 

Divorce-ish: It is on, it is off, we are re-thinking, the old marriage is dead but we can remarry (the old tell yourself what gets you through the nite type divorce), We don't divorce, but the old marriage is dead (the other get yourself thru the nite), Divorce and later remarry (the old, they fixed themselves and me too) Divorce and remarry (The old, we did nothing to fix anything, but got remarried- rugsweep fakeroo), rugsweep; if you can name it, it happens. It happens.

Clarity of thought: Rarely anyone has this. Deal breaker now or later-some have this. Full steam ahead and no looking back and they were left devastated-the story of trolls.

Best advice: Strap in, put on neck brace and helmet because the roller coaster ride is not over for a long time. Wherever you find yourself, is where YOU are supposed to be.


----------



## Gabriel

Having gone through hysterical bonding myself, I would describe it as two people desperately trying to hang on to whatever they can as they fall into an abyss, and if they f*ck hard and often enough, they might be able to survive the landing. There is a mutual need for comfort. Hold on tight enough, and maybe we'll wake up from this nightmare together. The intensity is truly insane, as it's mixed with emotional pain and sorrow, but also with a strong co-dependent pull for survival that is satisfied little by little with each orgasm.

But in our case, we were looking to reconcile. And did. And her affair was not physical. Doing this while competing with mind movies would likely intensify the pain and survival even more. 

Whether Steve's wife is purposefully manipulating things, I do not know, but this hysterical bonding is very common, even when no manipulation is going on. It's very natural.

It seems Steve is getting understandably confused, especially with a wife that's as remorseful as his. Most of us didn't get that gift. I'm guessing it's going to be very hard for Steve to sign the papers, now that the OM is fired and there is very little fallout at work. One thing he can't do, is care what anybody else thinks, either way. Hopefully, he gets clarity as he moves forward.


----------



## wilson

alte Dame said:


> I don't think you will forgive yourself easily if the sex weakens your determination to take a stand for yourself. I could be wrong, of course. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.


It certainly gives insight as to how affairs start and continue. I'm sure before it resumed, Steve was certain he wasn't going to ever sleep with her again. But then a slice of pizza and then oops! Look what we have here!

Obviously there are important differences between what's going on here and her affair, but in both cases it's people being led astray by their hormones.


----------



## alte Dame

I think an important part of 'hysterical bonding' is the 'bonding.' It is deeply physical, but also emotional.

Speaking as a woman who doesn't naturally view sex the way a man does, I think Steve should be aware of the mixed messages he is sending to her. She is a woman who is clearly not very savvy on some fronts or she wouldn't have swallowed the bull**** lines of a geriatric player. I would bet the farm that she has her heart very deeply into the revived intimacy.

That being said, if Steve has truly moved on, then so what if she's filled with hopium? If he can stay detached and just enjoy, OK, fair enough. However....I don't believe that his posts here indicate that he is an emotional cold fish with a hot body. The new bonding could lead to a reconciliation attempt, which, again, is just fine if he thinks that's what he wants and is prepared for all of the effects. TAM will here to support no matter which direction this takes.


----------



## bandit.45

alte Dame said:


> I think an important part of 'hysterical bonding' is the 'bonding.' It is deeply physical, but also emotional.
> 
> Speaking as a woman who doesn't naturally view sex the way a man does, I think Steve should be aware of the mixed messages he is sending to her. She is a woman who is clearly not very savvy on some fronts or she wouldn't have swallowed the bull**** lines of a geriatric player. I would bet the farm that she has her heart very deeply into the revived intimacy.
> 
> That being said, if Steve has truly moved on, then so what if she's filled with hopium? If he can stay detached and just enjoy, OK, fair enough. However....I don't believe that his posts here indicate that he is an emotional cold fish with a hot body. The new bonding could lead to a reconciliation attempt, which, again, is just fine if he thinks that's what he wants and is prepared for all of the effects. TAM will here to support no matter which direction this takes.


I think in the end, however it turns out will come about organically. I think Steve should push forward with the divorce and keep that separate from the relationship: marriage/divorce in one box, relationship in another. By doing this he can give his WW a taste of what her compartmentalizing did to him. It might help with her empathy.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I think in the end, however it turns out will come about organically. I think Steve should push forward with the divorce and keep that separate from the relationship: marriage/divorce in one box, relationship in another. By doing this he can give his WW a taste of what her compartmentalizing did to him. It might help with her empathy.


 @alte Dame is 100% correct regarding hysterical bonding.

For as long as they’re having sex it’s going to be much more difficult for him to achieve any outcome that involves divorce.

Doesn’t matter where his head was at a month ago or last week, or where it’s at now — the sex is going to make it much more difficult for him to detach.

This isn’t some random bar skank that he’s banging — it’s the woman he (still) loves and the mother of his child.

_And it’s the best sex they’ve ever had._

It doesn’t matter that his pain is pain — all that matters is that it’s intense. And that intensity will make the sex even better, which will wear away at his resolve.

Sex is rarely “just sex”, folks.

At least to those of us that actually value it.


----------



## bandit.45

Steve is a big boy. He's been warned of the risk of having sex with her. If he chooses to continue he will reap the fallout good or bad. He knows that.


----------



## Tron

GusPolinski said:


> @alte Dame is 100% correct regarding hysterical bonding.
> 
> For as long as they’re having sex it’s going to be much more difficult for him to achieve any outcome that involves divorce.
> 
> Doesn’t matter where his head was at a month ago or last week, or where it’s at now — the sex is going to make it much more difficult for him to detach.
> 
> This isn’t some random bar skank that he’s banging — it’s the woman he (still) loves and the mother of his child.
> 
> _And it’s the best sex they’ve ever had._
> 
> It doesn’t matter that his pain is pain — all that matters is that it’s intense. And that intensity will make the sex even better, which will wear away at his resolve.
> 
> Sex is rarely “just sex”, folks.
> 
> At least to those of us that actually value it.


Totally agree with this.

Scuba, unlike some folks, I really don't have an emotion one way or the other as far as whether you should D or R. I don't know enough about your wife's motives here but I think R is there if you want to try it. But ultimately do what is best for you and your daughter. PERIOD!

If it is truly a deal-breaker and not something you will ever be able to reconcile in your own mind and heart, then D and don't waste 5 or 10 years trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Best to make the break as soon as ready. If that is after the HB ends and the anger kicks in, then so be it. Bottom line is that your wife deserves the divorce. Now or 6 months from now really makes no difference. 

Now, if you are considering reconciliation with her then when that decision is made I suggest nothing less than 100 percent. Don't waste your time with half-assed effort. A D in that context only serves as limbo without commitment. How can you say you are 100% committed to R with 2 feet already out the door? Reconciliation is hard enough without that. Just based on what I've read on TAM in the last 5 years, a D then reconciliation never or almost never happens (I've read of maybe 1 or 2 cases out of thousands). And FTR, there is no shame in doing the best you can to R for a couple of years and then saying "this M just isn't working for me any more, we need to D". There is solace in knowing that you can straight up tell your kid to her face that you did the best you could to make it work and it just wasn't meant to be.

OP, read the book I linked, continue on with what you are doing. I don't see anything wrong with it. If it results in a healthy you and a successful R then obviously that is the best situation for your daughter, for you and for your W. If you can't ever be in a healthy marital relationship with your W, when you finally figure that out 100%, then call it quits with her. You will heal a lot quicker if you are completely detached.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> Having gone through hysterical bonding myself, I would describe it as two people desperately trying to hang on to whatever they can as they fall into an abyss, and if they f*ck hard and often enough, they might be able to survive the landing. There is a mutual need for comfort. Hold on tight enough, and maybe we'll wake up from this nightmare together. The intensity is truly insane, as it's mixed with emotional pain and sorrow, but also with a strong co-dependent pull for survival that is satisfied little by little with each orgasm.
> 
> But in our case, we were looking to reconcile. And did. And her affair was not physical. Doing this while competing with mind movies would likely intensify the pain and survival even more.
> 
> Whether Steve's wife is purposefully manipulating things, I do not know, but this hysterical bonding is very common, even when no manipulation is going on. It's very natural.
> 
> It seems Steve is getting understandably confused, *especially with a wife that's as remorseful as his*. Most of us didn't get that gift. I'm guessing it's going to be very hard for Steve to sign the papers, now that the OM is fired and there is very little fallout at work. One thing he can't do, is care what anybody else thinks, either way. Hopefully, he gets clarity as he moves forward.


This is one great post... except for one thing . (in bold). 

Everyone should understand what remorse and regret, sorrow, and on an on actually is. 
@Mrs. John Adams, is one of the few wayward that actually knows and understands what remorse is in this type of situation. 

Steve's wife is regretful, she is sorry, she is desperately trying to hold on to him and her family, but she is not in any way remorseful. She cannot be. Remorse in infidelity, is 1) rare, 2) often misunderstood, and 3) takes years for most if not all waywards to get there. 

I believe, for all I read, that Steve's wife is everything but remorseful, because she cannot be this soon after DDay.


----------



## rv10flyer

Steve, I will start a new thread about my experience last year, at a later date. With 28 years together and two teenagers, we ended up going through with the divorce and are now remarried and doing very well. I hope that you two can reconcile. It has not been easy, but neither would starting a new family. A month into my own investigation, I made sure the OM wife knew everything about her serial-cheating, preacher of a husband. Make sure she knows, she probably suspects it already, but sometimes it needs to be brought out in the light for EVERYONE to see before she will do anything. He lost big time. Good luck to you and I will be praying for you.


----------



## sokillme

skerzoid said:


> 1. The reason you are letting her is that you still love her. You are enraged that she did this thing to "US", but you still deep down love her. You still see the woman that you fell in love with.
> 
> 2. You are actually luckier than most. Your wife is doing everything she can to fix this. Most betrayed husbands that still love their wives are heart broken and would give anything to get their betrayed spouses to do the things she is doing. She seems outwardly very remorseful. This is probably because of the strength with which you have acted and the steps you have taken to take back what is yours. Even though you still love her, you have been an Alpha male in this. Women are drawn to Strength, Courage, and Decisiveness. You have shown all of these in abundance. She is terrified she is going to lose you through her own stupidity. She has F'ed up bad and she knows it.
> 
> 2.. Most people kid themselves about starting over after a divorce. Many posters say this is an option, but it rarely works that way. Either you or she or both of you will move on. Therefore, either "D" with this as the end of the relationship or "R" knowing that this is a risky and grueling process that will take years and isn't guaranteed to work. There ain't no easy road.
> 
> 3. You know your wife better than any poster here. Most of us are victims of infidelity. We project our experiences onto you. Also, most of us have read these stories over and over. My own personal feeling is that she allowed herself to to get close to someone, and it turned into a slippery slope that was her downfall. Then you found out, and she had her "OMG, what have I done?" moment. I don't think the affair was planned but she didn't plan on getting caught and she was weak & let it happen. She is now devastated that she has ruined her life, your life, and worst of all, her child's life.
> 
> 4. I blame her for being weak enough to allow this to happen, but I don't blame her for doing everything in her power to try and save this. I don't see it as being evil and manipulative, but as being lost and desperate to save "Us". Thats why these stories of infidelity are so sad, because they are senseless. You are trying to balance out an equation. You can't do it. There are really only two choices; You either move on with divorce knowing the pain that you, she, and your child will experience, OR, you forgive her and move on with her knowing that it will be a painful road also that has no guarantee of success. The "divorce and then date" seems to be a fantasy. I would consider my options while moving towards the final declaration. But I wouldn't make any plans for a relationship other than co-parenting after that.


So maybe the sex thing is not manipulative but it is a sign of how she sees sex which is it's a commodity to get things she wants, a mans attention, her husband. This is not a healthy way to see sex and probably contributed to her issues. Being weak and then making sex a payment method means very bad choice for a wife.

There is SO MUCH better out there.


----------



## badmemory

Steve,

The standard advice we give the BS's here, at least the ones who are headed for D, is the importance of detachment. The idea being that the sooner you implement the 180, the sooner you can detach and get to that place of "indifference". The sooner you get to indifference the sooner the emotional pain will fade away and ready you for a new life.

Instead, what you seem to be doing is lessening your emotional pain with sex, while delaying the inevitable point and time where you will have to detach - through divorce, if you go through with it. Perhaps you're one of those rare men who can do that and get through it fine emotionally. But I'd be leery of that if I were you.


----------



## Evinrude58

She may be sorry.
She may actually be enjoying the sex with her husband. 
She may never cheat again.

Steve is doing this correctly. It’s clear by the way he stands up for her that he wants to reconcile. He’d better keep the heat on for a long time if he does. 

I’d get a post nup if I chose to reconcile without divorcing.

She deserves a divorce.

I this thread, there’s two quotes that bother me:

“I stopped when I got scared I was starting to have feelings for him.”

The other was about why she cheated. I can’t remember exActly.

But it seems her viewpoint on her affair was that it was ok to have sex with the guy as long as emotions weren’t involved. 
I find that highly immoral and unless SS’s values are similar, I doubt she will stay faithful in the future. 

She also didn’t break down and beg forgiveness when SS caught her. She had been out of the affair for a while. I would think this would really bother a good woman and she’d have wanted to come clean on it if she really cared for SS.

Obviously he’s getting some good sex from her. So was the other guy. Good enough to risk his job over, and maybe his marriage—- although I think his wife already knows his ways. He’s trash.

Steve, 
Keep up the divorce.
Find out what your wife really thinks as best you can. Talk to her. Don’t avoid the hard conversations. Tell her how hurt you are. Tell her why you’ll never trust her again. 
I’d ask for a hall pass. You don’t have to use it. But make her worry about YOU for a while.

You’re going to try to reconcile. I can tell it on your writing...
At least get to the bottom of things and give her the opportunity to help you heal, if that’s possible.

I still admire you for the strength you’ve shown. Keep standing firm. If you give her the gift of reconciliation, have her earn back your feelings for her. After all, she did the damage. Let her fix it.


----------



## BluesPower

sokillme said:


> So maybe the sex thing is not manipulative but it is a sign of how she sees sex which is it's a commodity to get things she wants, a mans attention, her husband. This is not a healthy way to see sex and probably contributed to her issues. Being weak and then making sex a payment method means very bad choice for a wife.
> 
> There is SO MUCH better out there.


While I share a lot of your views, I disagree on this one. 

I don't think that it should influence SS's decision. I don't think she is doing this. Just my opinion. 

Now, I have a lot of questions about this thread... I think she screwed tat boy, and I think Steve is in denial about this. 

I would like to know more about the affair(s) in general, then I would render what I think would be a more informed opinion. 

But from what I see, this is a woman that wants her husband to love her like he did before. Regardless of her horrible decisions, and possible other mental issues, I think she realizes that she blew up her marriage, her family and her life. 

I suspect she needs him to hold her or she thinks she will die. 

On the other hand, she could be a conniving manipulative ****? 

So I guess who knows...


----------



## skerzoid

BluesPower said:


> While I share a lot of your views, I disagree on this one.
> 
> I don't think that it should influence SS's decision. I don't think she is doing this. Just my opinion.
> 
> Now, I have a lot of questions about this thread... I think she screwed tat boy, and I think Steve is in denial about this.
> 
> I would like to know more about the affair(s) in general, then I would render what I think would be a more informed opinion.
> 
> But from what I see, this is a woman that wants her husband to love her like he did before. Regardless of her horrible decisions, and possible other mental issues, I think she realizes that she blew up her marriage, her family and her life.
> 
> I suspect she needs him to hold her or she thinks she will die.
> 
> On the other hand, she could be a conniving manipulative ****?
> 
> So I guess who knows...


Which is why I think Steve needs to get a *POLY* done on her as soon as possible before making a decision to "R" or "D". I would want as much information as possible. Seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## Marc878

skerzoid said:


> Which is why I think Steve needs to get a *POLY* done on her as soon as possible before making a decision to "R" or "D". I would want as much information as possible. Seems like a no brainer to me.


I totally agree. Get it now don't rugsweep


----------



## sa58

I think Steve should continue with the divorce
as he said he plans to. He has however IMO
started to go back and forth between R/D
I think he should then move out and take 
some time to decide what he wants to really do
on his own. Without her influence (SEX and anything else)

The HB will come to an end just as the honeymoon 
phase in a marriage does, What happens then ?
Same routine as before or trust issues and anger.
I say this because of his daughter and him.
Is it better to raise his daughter in a potential 
toxic relationship or as a single father co-parenting ?

A polygraph is necessary as many of us have said.
There are many questions unresolved yet. Tat-boss
when did the affair really stop and end etc. I do not know
if data recovery on her phone could still be done or not.
Steve should IMO have already done this.

He may or may not truly want to know the answers 
to things. I agree he should know as much information
as he can and then decide. 

With everything Steve has now said about his 
company and the stuff going on there I wonder 
how much did she know and why did she just quit 
Steve and her work in different sections and maybe 
she knew something he did not. To many questions
need to be answered


Steve I believe will do his best to make the right
choice for himself and his daughter. His wife and her
plan for R should have no say in his and his daughters 
future. IMO Her and the POSOM created a mess Steve is
just stuck in the middle of it. This is hard as hell on him
I can only imagine the roller coaster his feelings must 
be on now.

Hope you are doing well Steve, we are still here 
for you


----------



## TheBohannons

If I cheated on my STB wife, she would divorce me. (Or kill me) She definately would not have sex with me. She is a proud woman and demands respect. If she cheated, I would never touch her again. Sex could never influence my self respect. 

How can one have "the best sex ever" so shortly after Day? Knowing what you know? A faithful woman with a few glasses of Champaign or a shot of tequila in her, has a better shot at the title of "best sex ever". hysterical bonding is fake love.

Some say it takes strength to reconcile. It takes a whole lot more to leave some one you love.

If "stay strong Steve" continues to have sex, he will not divorce. That is the type of man that he is. Perhaps he should stay with his wife.


----------



## Beach123

While having sex with her demand she take a poly.


----------



## Sports Fan

I have previously warned about the Taps of endless sex being turned on in order to keep Steve from leaving. End of the day its up to Steve whether he stays or goes.


----------



## Mr.Married

Did ya'll read the part that the divorce is only waiting for the judge?


----------



## oldtruck

BluesPower said:


> This is one great post... except for one thing . (in bold).
> 
> Everyone should understand what remorse and regret, sorrow, and on an on actually is.
> 
> @Mrs. John Adams, is one of the few wayward that actually knows and understands what remorse is in this type of situation.
> 
> Steve's wife is regretful, she is sorry, she is desperately trying to hold on to him and her family, but she is not in any way remorseful. She cannot be. Remorse in infidelity, is 1) rare, 2) often misunderstood, and 3) takes years for most if not all waywards to get there.
> 
> I believe, for all I read, that Steve's wife is everything but remorseful, because she cannot be this soon after DDay.


Those of you may know Dr Harley. He has seen many marriages recover without the WW
showing remorse.


----------



## naiveonedave

oldtruck said:


> Those of you may know Dr Harley. He has seen many marriages recover without the WW
> showing remorse.


not possible. Stay married, sure. Recover not a chance.


----------



## Evinrude58

Steve is divorcing her...... maybe...

But she will either straighten up or cheat again soon and Steve may get fed up with it.


----------



## dianaelaine59

TheBohannons said:


> If I cheated on my STB wife, she would divorce me. (Or kill me) She definately would not have sex with me. She is a proud woman and demands respect. If she cheated, I would never touch her again. Sex could never influence my self respect.
> 
> How can one have "the best sex ever" so shortly after Day? Knowing what you know? A faithful woman with a few glasses of Champaign or a shot of tequila in her, has a better shot at the title of "best sex ever". hysterical bonding is fake love.
> 
> Some say it takes strength to reconcile. It takes a whole lot more to leave some one you love.
> 
> If "stay strong Steve" continues to have sex, he will not divorce. That is the type of man that he is. Perhaps he should stay with his wife.




Absolutely Positively! If my husband cheated on me ONCE, he would NEVER get near me again!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BluesPower

oldtruck said:


> Those of you may know Dr Harley. He has seen many marriages recover without the WW
> showing remorse.


With all do respect to Dr. Harley, and I think he is trying to help people. That book is crap. 

It is the typical, "What do you think you may have done to drive your wife to cheat", crap.


----------



## Gabriel

naiveonedave said:


> not possible. Stay married, sure. Recover not a chance.


Yes it is. Trust me. The only time I even trigger is when I come here. LOL

Sometimes all you need is a complete eradication of the AP and complete compliance.

Remorse or not, that does wonders. At least for a compartmentalizer like me.

Life and marriage is way better now that it was before.


----------



## Marc878

oldtruck said:


> Those of you may know Dr Harley. He has seen many marriages recover without the WW
> showing remorse.


The Harley's have made a fortune off selling hopium.

His system: Expose, Accept being a cuckold, kiss their ass and hope they come back. 

If you look at their website the success rate is dismal at best.


----------



## drifting on

Dr. Harley is not the proper reconciliation recipe, I’ve read some of it and it’s not something that was for me. It had me taking so much blame, it focused on what the betrayed did. Nope, not going any further, my wife’s affair is her fault, her choice, and she is the sole owner of it. This guys results are fudged in my opinion, not fact, and he is an insult to anyone you call a doctor. If I did reconciliation his way I’d be divorced by now.


----------



## personofinterest

He's not bad. Some of his "followers" are batcrap.


----------



## TAMAT

I think some of Dr Harleys ideas have a great deal of validity, and for certain people in certain life circumstances they work.

His concept of a love bank which is filled by meeting the 10 basic needs and emptied by love busters gives people a framework to improve their marriages or at least stop damaging it further.

His concept of radical honesty will if adhered to prevent future affairs and will provide the self-emptying confessions many spouses want when they are betrayed.

We don't have to go along with the concept of PLAN A, becoming the ideal husband, in order to out compete the OM. I accepted PLAN A as a form of self-improvement... the OM will be run off in no uncertain terms I'm not competing with him his game if over.

Why shouldn't we treat our Ws as well as we would treat any stranger. At the very least it is a way to prepare yourself for the next relationship if you do end up divorcing. Become the person you want your W to be. Decency is a position of strength.

Years ago his website had a number of really good diverse viewpointed posters whose writings helped save/improve my marriage in 2008. This is not true today.

Tamat


----------



## oldtruck

naiveonedave said:


> not possible. Stay married, sure. Recover not a chance.


Dr H is a clinical psychologist, more then a run of the mill counselor.
His specialty for over 40 years has been dealing with affairs. He
speaks of fact based on first hand experience. He is not a must stay
married at all cost believer. He also says there is no justification for 
having an affair.


----------



## skerzoid

Steve:

Have you considered having her take a poly?


----------



## BluesPower

TAMAT said:


> I think some of Dr Harleys ideas have a great deal of validity, and for certain people in certain life circumstances they work.
> 
> His concept of a love bank which is filled by meeting the 10 basic needs and emptied by love busters gives people a framework to improve their marriages or at least stop damaging it further.
> 
> His concept of radical honesty will if adhered to prevent future affairs and will provide the self-emptying confessions many spouses want when they are betrayed.
> 
> We don't have to go along with the concept of PLAN A, becoming the ideal husband, in order to out compete the OM. I accepted PLAN A as a form of self-improvement... the OM will be run off in no uncertain terms I'm not competing with him his game if over.
> 
> Why shouldn't we treat our Ws as well as we would treat any stranger. At the very least it is a way to prepare yourself for the next relationship if you do end up divorcing. Become the person you want your W to be. Decency is a position of strength.
> 
> Years ago his website had a number of really good diverse viewpointed posters whose writings helped save/improve my marriage in 2008. This is not true today.
> 
> Tamat


I understand your well reasoned and well thought out response about this. But I am sorry, this thought process and Dr. Harleys thought process it complete a total crap in every way. 

This is part of the cancer in oursociety that believes men should be weak beta boys. If we let them be men then they will be to powerful and too dangerous. 

However you define that it is insane. 

Men should be men, they should be allowed to be men, the world needs them. 

And women want them...


----------



## TAMAT

BluesPower,

I never swallowed the "take it on the chin" aspect of some of the posters on MB, 

I made it clear to my W that her dalliance with OM3 will be responded to by any means necessary, this was not a position I would have taken before reading MB.

I don't believe Dr Harley advocates passivity, but exposure and confrontation and separation and divorce.

Yes he does also advocate reconciliation but not at all costs there must be radical honest and extraordinary precautions taken. He limits the amount of time people spend in "plan A" because it is damaging to their health.

Tamat


----------



## skerzoid

Steve:

UP Date? Down Date? Any Date?


----------



## Kamstel

Steve, you ok?


----------



## personofinterest

> Years ago his website had a number of really good diverse viewpointed posters whose writings helped save/improve my marriage in 2008. *This is not true today*.


True Dat


----------



## sa58

Steve

Hope you are doing well and we are all here 
for you,


----------



## seadoug105

Scuba,

It's been a while since your last post.... and since there was mention of an "investigation" at your work based on the behaviors and actions or inactions of the OLD MAN ("OM") and the CEO. Given the potential legal impacts this could have on your friend's family's company and your WS and all I can't imagine we will be hearing to much from you until things wind down....


But.... I hope all is well with you! I know there is a lot on your mind with your wife and I truely wish you both the best.... if nothing else for your daughter. A healthy relationship (D or M) between 2 parents is important. 

Everyone on here has an opinion, many right and many not so right but you got a good head on your shoulders and I know that you can filter through all the advise, perspectives, and thoughts (especially my Sha-Hitty thoughts). Only you can know what's best for you!



I try not to speak for others but I will this make an exception!! 

WE ARE THINKING ABOUT YOU AND WISH YOU STRENGTH, WISDOM, AND THE LOYAL SUPPORT OF CLOSE FRIENDS!


----------



## Edmund

Scuba Steve,

I imagine you are sick of all the advice you are getting here, from all of us. I don't blame you really. Lots of strong opinions. If you have found some way to forgive your wife, you are a better man than most, and I will applaud you for it (I may be the only one). If you divorce her, I have to agree that very few men could get past a love affair with an old man who is obviously a rotten person and predator, and divorce in such a case is a reasonable and rational action. Either way, I hope the two of you find some way to continue to parent your child, whether together or seperately. Some day, when and if you can, please let us know how things turned out. Sure we are curious, like people viewing an automobile accident, but we do care also, as much as anonymous people on the internet can. Until then, may God bless you and your "little family"; all of you, including your wife.


----------



## sokillme

Edmund said:


> Scuba Steve,
> 
> I imagine you are sick of all the advice you are getting here, from all of us. I don't blame you really. Lots of strong opinions. If you have found some way to forgive your wife, you are a better man than most, and I will applaud you for it (I may be the only one). If you divorce her, I have to agree that very few men could get past a love affair with an old man who is obviously a rotten person and predator, and divorce in such a case is a reasonable and rational action. Either way, I hope the two of you find some way to continue to parent your child, whether together or seperately. Some day, when and if you can, please let us know how things turned out. Sure we are curious, like people viewing an automobile accident, but we do care also, as much as anonymous people on the internet can. Until then, may God bless you are your "little family"; all of you, including your wife.


Staying or leaving a cheater makes you no better or worse then anyone else.


----------



## Edmund

sokillme said:


> Staying or leaving a cheater makes you no better or worse then anyone else.


The ability to forgive others who have wronged you is a characteristic of a better than average person, IMO. Jesus said, ask God to forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I wish these situations could all have happy endings. (Now back to the Hallmark Channel.)


----------



## sokillme

Edmund said:


> The ability to forgive others who have wronged you is a characteristic of a better than average person, IMO. Jesus said, ask God to forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
> 
> I wish these situations could all have happy endings. (Now back to the Hallmark Channel.)


Forgiving and staying are two totally different things. There is not honor in being a martyr to a marriage. 

Most of the time the happy ending is moving on and finding better IMO.


----------



## skerzoid

Steve, save us from ourselves. Give us some feedback.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

skerzoid said:


> Steve, save us from ourselves. Give us some feedback.


lol, this is great!


----------



## bandit.45

She killed him. He sleeps with the fishes.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

And that about does it for poor Steve....


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

It was a cool gif....I guess it doesn't work on here. Sorry guys and gals.


----------



## TDSC60

Like Elvis ---- I think Steve has left the building.


----------



## bandit.45

I don't blame him for leaving. We're not a very likeable bunch.


----------



## Kamstel

Steve sent me a private message earlier this week and said he would be giving an update soon. 

That is all he said, didn’t hint at what is going on


----------



## Fenris

bandit.45 said:


> I don't blame him for leaving. We're not a very likeable bunch.


Its a club nobody wants to be a member of.


----------



## TAMAT

Perhaps nobody wants to belong but most wish they got here a month, week or even a day earlier.


----------



## blahfridge

TAMAT said:


> Perhaps nobody wants to belong but most wish they got here a month, week or even a day earlier.



...or years. Kills me sometimes that I lost the prime of my life staying with a lying cheater.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Hope you are doing as best that you can be during this time. God bless.


----------



## drifting on

blahfridge said:


> ...or years. Kills me sometimes that I lost the prime of my life staying with a lying cheater.





I have no doubt peace and happiness will surround you. No regrets over your choices, you did what you thought was best for you at that time. It’s difficukt to navigate your way through, we all make mistakes, live for today and your future, you’ll be just fine.


----------



## blahfridge

drifting on said:


> blahfridge said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...or years. Kills me sometimes that I lost the prime of my life staying with a lying cheater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt peace and happiness will surround you. No regrets over your choices, you did what you thought was best for you at that time. It’s difficukt to navigate your way through, we all make mistakes, live for today and your future, you’ll be just fine.
Click to expand...

Thank you DO, I have made so many mistakes, mostly because I have a tendency to internalize anger. But I'm learning to forgive myself and trust in the universe that everything will work out.


----------



## drifting on

Forgiving yourself is needed, but not easy to do, is it? I find I forgive myself very little for my mistakes or transgressions, this in my opinion is that you should love yourself more. I can’t be perfect, nor can you, but you can forgive yourself and others if you accept your flaws and love yourself. As I said before, live for today and the future. Let the water flow under the bridge and embrace what’s coming towards you. You may find that what’s coming towards you is what you’ve desired all along. God bless you.


----------



## TDSC60

Kamstel said:


> Steve sent me a private message earlier this week and said he would be giving an update soon.
> 
> That is all he said, didn’t hint at what is going on


Did he say how he was doing?


----------



## Gabriel

Doesn't look like we are going to know the resolution here. Oh well, hopefully we were helpful.


----------



## MyRevelation

I think most suspect what likely occurred and why Steve hasn't updated.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MyRevelation said:


> I think most suspect what likely occurred and why Steve hasn't updated.


Which is? Sorry, not following ....


----------



## skerzoid

I think that he probably decided to "R" and didn't want to face the judgement of the "D" advocates.... or not. This is mental masturbation till he decides to update. Sometimes I advocate for "D", sometimes "R". Each case is dependent on the situation, dependent on the judgement of the OP. He had a 2 yr old female child. That is something that is a big consideration. WW was doing the "right things". The company got rid of the OM. These may have effected his "D" intent. Maybe not. Sometimes I say "Ditch the B***h!" Sometimes I say the Wayward may be a candidate for "R". I myself said some judgmental things in this thread that offended Steve. Lets support what ever his decision is and wish him the best. We don't have to live with his decision, he does.


----------



## MyRevelation

stillfightingforus said:


> Which is? Sorry, not following ....


"Most Likely" he did what he was warned to avoid ... he fell into a ***** coma and his WW hoovered him back in, and he rationalized it by claiming he stayed for his daughter, and now he doesn't want to deal with the "I told you so's". Happens all the time, and is actually the most likely outcome of the indecisive.

You can also expect the likely suspects to challenge this "most likely" outcome, citing a bunch of "exceptions" to try to disprove the "rule".


----------



## jlg07

Hey Steve did ALL of the correct things to knock her out of her fog. What she did sucked for sure, but she also seemed to be responding the way folks said a remorseful WW is supposed. NO shame at all if he decided to put the D on hold and see about R. It's HIS life and he has to do what he thinks is best for him and his child. Others here may not like it, but HE has to live it, not the folks here on the forum.

He shouldn't have any trepidation about coming back here and posting an update -- lets' face it, we are all rooting for him, or we wouldn't be on this thread!


----------



## skerzoid

MyRevelation said:


> "Most Likely" he did what he was warned to avoid ... he fell into a ***** coma and his WW hoovered him back in, and he rationalized it by claiming he stayed for his daughter, and now he doesn't want to deal with the "I told you so's". Happens all the time, and is actually the most likely outcome of the indecisive.
> 
> You can also expect the likely suspects to challenge this "most likely" outcome, citing a bunch of "exceptions" to try to disprove the "rule".


I rest my case.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MyRevelation said:


> "Most Likely" he did what he was warned to avoid ... he fell into a ***** coma and his WW hoovered him back in, and he rationalized it by claiming he stayed for his daughter, and now he doesn't want to deal with the "I told you so's". Happens all the time, and is actually the most likely outcome of the indecisive.
> 
> You can also expect the likely suspects to challenge this "most likely" outcome, citing a bunch of "exceptions" to try to disprove the "rule".


DOH! I'm an idiot, I got this confused with the thread where Cromer was divorced and helping his friend navigate after her husband found out about her past. Yes, I think this is dead on. He is back in for now. Unlike politicians, I don't want to see him fail to say I told you so. really hope it works out!


----------



## MyRevelation

stillfightingforus said:


> DOH! I'm an idiot, I got this confused with the thread where Cromer was divorced and helping his friend navigate after her husband found out about her past. Yes, I think this is dead on. He is back in for now. Unlike politicians, I don't want to see him fail to say I told you so. really hope it works out!


We all "hope" it ends well for him. I don't think any BH wants to see another BH acquire a taste for **** sandwiches, but ... and this is just a personal observation about infidelity forums ... but when you see a BH's thread hit double digits in pages of posts without any meaningful/decisive action being taken, it is the most likely outcome.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

MyRevelation said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> DOH! I'm an idiot, I got this confused with the thread where Cromer was divorced and helping his friend navigate after her husband found out about her past. Yes, I think this is dead on. He is back in for now. Unlike politicians, I don't want to see him fail to say I told you so. really hope it works out!
> 
> 
> 
> We all "hope" it ends well for him. I don't think any BH wants to see another BH acquire a taste for **** sandwiches, but ... and this is just a personal observation about infidelity forums ... but when you see a BH's thread hit double digits in pages of posts without any meaningful/decisive action being taken, it is the most likely outcome.
Click to expand...

I called it back on page 93. I wonder how much money I would have made off of those odds.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I called it back on page 93. I wonder how much money I would have made off of those odds.


I guess the decisive action thing is debatable because he did carry through on a lot, that is what probably brought her back into the fold. Now how much decisive action was needed will be judged on how this ends up in the long run.


----------



## sa58

Maybe Steve is just dealing with his life, and
the mess POSOM created. Do not forget that
POSOM messed up his family but also created 
problems in Steve's professional life also. He 
could be trying to help his friend clean up POSOM
mess at work . 

Steve's wife really did not want a divorce so 
he could be dealing with that situation also.
Regardless of the situation I think Steve
is fully aware of the situation and what to do.
If we all remember Steve said there was a time 
he did not really know what to do. TAM helped
in that regard. If his gut feeling should come back
he will know what to do now. 

If he decided to R then I hope his WW got counseling 
for what ever her issues are. Family, daddy or whatever.
Steve even acknowledged this in one of his posts.
(IMO I do not think she will )

As I have stated on many threads I despise the loathsome 
cheater. If you read his posts the roller coaster of emotions
he has gone threw are clear. I will support Steve in what ever 
his choice is R/D As I stated in a previous post he is only here on
TAM for a moment then his life is his to live.

Remember Steve we are here if you should choose to update.
If not our thoughts are with you still. Your wife is but a part of 
your life but your daughter is part of you.

You have TAM full support and advice if you need us.
If not have a great and fulfilling life.


----------



## MyRevelation

stillfightingforus said:


> I guess the decisive action thing is debatable because he did carry through on a lot, that is what probably brought her back into the fold. Now how much decisive action was needed will be judged on how this ends up in the long run.


You're missing the point ... its not that eventually some actions were taken. It's the timing that is just as important. When a BH ***** foots around, navel gazing and hand wringing for an extended period of time before taking meaningful action, it sends the same message as not taking action at all.

... and make no mistake, most BH's in this situation don't R because their WW finally "gets it" and steps up to the plate. They "R'd" because the BH was preprogrammed (for a few standard reasons) to do so, regardless of any actions or lack thereof from their WW. In this case, the WW defaulted to the currency that had served her well in the past, and as it has throughout history ... it worked.


----------



## Edmund

skerzoid said:


> I think that he probably decided to "R" and didn't want to face the judgement of the "D" advocates.... or not. This is mental masturbation till he decides to update. Sometimes I advocate for "D", sometimes "R". Each case is dependent on the situation, dependent on the judgement of the OP. He had a 2 yr old female child. That is something that is a big consideration. WW was doing the "right things". The company got rid of the OM. These may have effected his "D" intent. Maybe not. Sometimes I say "Ditch the B***h!" Sometimes I say the Wayward may be a candidate for "R". I myself said some judgmental things in this thread that offended Steve. Lets support what ever his decision is and wish him the best. We don't have to live with his decision, he does.



I hope they did work out a plan to stay together as a family and parent their daughter whether married or divorced. To err is human, to forgive, Devine.


----------



## RWB

Edmund said:


> I hope they did work out a plan to stay together as a family and parent their daughter whether married or divorced. To err is human, to forgive, *Devine*.


Divine? or as in Dan Devine... Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! :grin2:


----------



## BluesPower

jlg07 said:


> Hey Steve did ALL of the correct things to knock her out of her fog. What she did sucked for sure, but she also seemed to be responding the way folks said a remorseful WW is supposed. NO shame at all if he decided to put the D on hold and see about R. It's HIS life and he has to do what he thinks is best for him and his child. Others here may not like it, but HE has to live it, not the folks here on the forum.
> 
> He shouldn't have any trepidation about coming back here and posting an update -- lets' face it, we are all rooting for him, or we wouldn't be on this thread!


I have to agree here. Steve did absolutely everything right, maybe not the sex recently, but everything else he did was perfect. 

For me, if he decides to R, it is his decision and in his particular case, it might be the thing to do. 

It is worth a try if that is what he wants to do. He can always divorce her later if he is not feeling it...


----------



## ABHale

I said early on that this is one of two I would agree the R is possible. 

Steve’s wife stopped the affair in her own. 

She also quite her job with out being asked. 

She did everything she could to let Steve know she wanted him. 

Did she mess up at the start by lying, yep she did. Then with out asking she wrote out the time line and took full responsibility for her actions. 

In turn Steve can make his own decision. What ever is best for him. 

How may WW have done any of this without the DH asking them to do so? I can’t think of any.


----------



## manwithnoname

ABHale said:


> I said early on that this is one of two I would agree the R is possible.
> 
> Steve’s wife stopped the affair in her own.
> 
> She also quite her job with out being asked.
> 
> She did everything she could to let Steve know she wanted him.
> 
> Did she mess up at the start by lying, yep she did. Then with out asking she wrote out the time line and took full responsibility for her actions.
> 
> In turn Steve can make his own decision. What ever is best for him.
> 
> How may WW have done any of this without the DH asking them to do so? I can’t think of any.


Didn't she snap at Steve in the kitchen (first post) and most agreed this was because she was dumped?

Also possible that if she lost plan A, she did everything she could to keep plan B.

I hope Steve works it all out to his satisfaction.


----------



## ABHale

manwithnoname said:


> Didn't she snap at Steve in the kitchen (first post) and most agreed this was because she was dumped?
> 
> Also possible that if she lost plan A, she did everything she could to keep plan B.
> 
> I hope Steve works it all out to his satisfaction.


I don’t think so. She ended it, said she started to fall in love with the OM and it scared her.


----------



## Edmund

RWB said:


> Divine? or as in Dan Devine... Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! :grin2:



Damn spell checker! You know what I meant.


----------



## jlg07

@Scuba_Steve, any updates?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Bump


----------



## SweetAndSour

I came back to TAM years after I posted here last time due to new developments in between me and my Xwife.

I needed to sharpen my "TAM Vision" for a new fight. To do that, I picked steve's thread and read not the whole thread but all the posts steve made and some of the good advice he received.

I was checking post dates while I was reading through. I got a feeling that everything developed too quickly. 

I thought steve was too cool to the point of being too insensitive and cold, but apparently he is not, It is OK and it is better. 

According to steve, his STBXW is the only woman steve ever had a meaningful relationship. Married to her, had a child with her. There must be a really strong bond there.

It is good that steve acted quickly on doing 180, PI, VAR's, lawyers and planning on divorce, thanks to TAM. But from my own experience and reading what other people went through steve still has a long way ahead of him to flush his STBXW out of his system. 

Now steve is on hysterical bonding stage. Let him have that but he will wake up after F**k coma which his STBXW put him on. 

I've been there, done that. Sex is amazing and hot, best I've ever had. During our recovery 18 years ago, she took me to a holiday resort, she was a great company when we were out. And when we were back in our room, I got offered every possible way of sex available in a porn site index without asking, especially the one I asked for frequently but got rarely in our regular married life, it was surprising to see how receptive she could be. I didn't stayed with her for the result of hysterical bonding sex though, I had other weaknesses.

One thing I desperately wanted to know, was, what was her state of mind and how much she enjoyed the sex with OM. I think I've got my answer when I look back now. During hysterical bonding stage sex with her. Although, I believe she enjoyed the sex as much as I did during that time, she also used her orifices and skills to buy whatever she wants to get from me as she did with OM, I was the other man, almost. It was different than regular married sex. Then, soon after, we were back to our regular occasional plain vanilla sex after our false recovery.

Steve, before sex with her, have an intentional mind movie of her having sex with OM. This will limit your rebonding with her. Then F**k her until you don't want more of her ,repeat as necessary. This will help to calm the lower side of your brain which you don't need it to be active right now. Don't forget you are divorcing her. It will pass, she will repulse you again. The wife you knew is dead, has never existed.


----------



## skerzoid

In the words of Elsa of Frozen, "Let it go, let it go". He will ask for help if he needs it.


----------



## SweetAndSour

skerzoid said:


> In the words of Elsa of Frozen, "Let it go, let it go". He will ask for help if he needs it.


Yea I know, I just came back yesterday and today I spent my day reading this tread, I was too late.

Despite my advice above, I am actually for, steve staying in her marriage for her daughter if he can manage her wife and his ego. But he is going to divorce her after he exhaust the regular cycle of back and forth in my opinion.


----------



## Rick Blaine

SweetAndSour said:


> I came back to TAM years after I posted here last time due to new developments in between me and my Xwife.
> 
> I needed to sharpen my "TAM Vision" for a new fight. To do that, I picked steve's thread and read not the whole thread but all the posts steve made and some of the good advice he received.
> 
> I was checking post dates while I was reading through. I got a feeling that everything developed too quickly.
> 
> I thought steve was too cool to the point of being too insensitive and cold, but apparently he is not, It is OK and it is better.
> 
> According to steve, his STBXW is the only woman steve ever had a meaningful relationship. Married to her, had a child with her. There must be a really strong bond there.
> 
> It is good that steve acted quickly on doing 180, PI, VAR's, lawyers and planning on divorce, thanks to TAM. But from my own experience and reading what other people went through steve still has a long way ahead of him to flush his STBXW out of his system.
> 
> Now steve is on hysterical bonding stage. Let him have that but he will wake up after F**k coma which his STBXW put him on.
> 
> I've been there, done that. Sex is amazing and hot, best I've ever had. During our recovery 18 years ago, she took me to a holiday resort, she was a great company when we were out. And when we were back in our room, I got offered every possible way of sex available in a porn site index without asking, especially the one I asked for frequently but got rarely in our regular married life, it was surprising to see how receptive she could be. I didn't stayed with her for the result of hysterical bonding sex though, I had other weaknesses.
> 
> One thing I desperately wanted to know, was, what was her state of mind and how much she enjoyed the sex with OM. I think I've got my answer when I look back now. During hysterical bonding stage sex with her. Although, I believe she enjoyed the sex as much as I did during that time, she also used her orifices and skills to buy whatever she wants to get from me as she did with OM, I was the other man, almost. It was different than regular married sex. Then, soon after, we were back to our regular occasional plain vanilla sex after our false recovery.
> 
> Steve, before sex with her, have an intentional mind movie of her having sex with OM. This will limit your rebonding with her. Then F**k her until you don't want more of her ,repeat as necessary. This will help to calm the lower side of your brain which you don't need it to be active right now. Don't forget you are divorcing her. It will pass, she will repulse you again. The wife you knew is dead, has never existed.


Right on target from my experience. I could have written this post. Wow.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

I haven’t posted in a while. I hope everyone is doing good. I’ve been good given everything that has taken place over the last couple of months. I’ve tried to keep myself busy, I started a new construction project. It’s keeping me busy and my mind off everything that’s been going on.

My STBX wife and I have officially separated. I moved out around the middle of May, after I was given the ok from my lawyer. My STBX wife did try to make the move difficult with all the water works and what I believe was emotional manipulation from her. Even though she denies it, she used our daughter to get me to stay. My STBX wife stayed and probably will stay in the family home. Unless she is no longer able to afford it or something but that won’t be my problem. I thought moving out would make going through this process easier but it’s quite the opposite. Part me miss her more now, I find myself constantly checking her Instagram or Twitter. Since she lost her job she’s been going to the gym like crazy and it’s starting to show. Plus, with all the free time she has she’s been doing fun activities with our daughter. Most of her Insta post are of her looking the best she has in years or something fun she’s doing with our daughter. It makes somewhat envious and jealous of the way she’s living compared to me. Everything seems have worked for her, while I on the other hand have gained about 30 lbs. and I rarely see my daughter as much as I would like too. When I do see her we usually don’t have the time to do fun things she gets to do with her mommy. This is probably my fault then my STBX wife.

The divorce is in the works. My lawyer is telling me it should be around 3-4 more months. After that I will be officially single. We worked out a fair agreement for our daughter. I have your daughter one week and my STBX wife has her following week. She been pretty good when it comes to sharing custody of our daughter and the divorce in general. My STBX wife understands that I am busy and tries to help with our daughter as much as possible. My lawyer believes it’s because my STBX still wants to try to reconcile. My lawyer is probably right, I’m playing it nice but making it clear that I’m done. I did slip up once during Memorial Day weekend but since then it’s been strictly business I plan to keep it that way.


----------



## bandit.45

You're gaining weight probably because you have been eating out. You gotta stop that. Cut back and start cooking lots of fish and veggies at home. 

How is your STBXWW paying for a gym membership if she doesn't have a job?


----------



## MyRevelation

SS,

I misjudged you. I thought you had likely gotten hoovered back in ... I apologize and congratulate you on your actions. IMHO, you are doing the right thing.

Good Luck!!!


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve 

Glad to hear you are doing well. Of course the wife 
wants to reconcile. You are with out a doubt the 
best person ( relationship ) she has or will ever have.
You deserve better, and will in time find it. It will take time
however. 

You have just moved out and are starting a new life without
her and it will take time to adjust. I know you will, just like I know 
you still love your wife and family but that has changed. Just like 
I have said on many TAM threads it is not over until it is over.

Be careful of her manipulation she seems to be devious at it.
Just my viewpoint . Ii will take time however, remember this time
last year you thought everything was fine. Being nice and civil
is the best thing. Even after the divorce is final, you and your 
SBTX have a child to raise. I know you will be there and raise 
a outstanding daughter. 

Take care sir and TAM will be here if you need us.

Lose the weight and start cooking at home, hit the gym also.
Getting in shape will show her what she really threw away.
Not just a loving and caring, intelligent person.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Good luck to you and to your daughter. You will still have a great impact in her life whatever you do or choose not to do. You have a good start by having the shared custody. She is too young, she will probably won't remember the days when you all were in the same home. She may easily grow cold on you if you are not in her day to day life.


----------



## Graywolf2

Scuba_Steve said:


> Since she lost her job she’s been going to the gym like crazy and it’s starting to show.
> 
> Plus, with all the free time she has she’s been doing fun activities with our daughter. Most of her Insta post are of her looking the best she has in years or something fun she’s doing with our daughter.
> 
> When I do see her we usually don’t have the time to do fun things she gets to do with her mommy.
> 
> My lawyer believes it’s because my STBX still wants to try to reconcile.


Your wife is very smart. If I were advising her on how to get you back I would tell her to do exactly what she’s doing.

She’s making herself very attractive both in a sexual and a family way. She’s not begging you because she tried that and it didn’t work. Instead she’s making herself hot and a “sure thing” for you. I bet she’s not dating anyone else.

That’s very hard to turn down. All you have to do is say OK and you can have great sex and quality time with your daughter.

There was a man posting on this site several years ago. His wife had a long term torrid affair. They separated and he put her up in a nearby apartment for five years. Their daughter was young and was very angry at her mother. She took over as the lady of the house and became very protective of her dad.

Her dad started posting asking about if he should get back with his wife. The daughter was very against it. There was a lot of posting but you could tell he was going to get back with his wife from the very start.

The reason was that she was a “sure thing.” He would have to put in a lot of effort to have sex with a woman as hot as his wife. His daughter tried to talk him out of it but the sex won out.


----------



## sa58

Steve

Remember her family and her issues, you are free of that now.
In her letter to you she said she was going to seek counseling
for that. In one of my posts I said she probably would not.
Bet she has not and will not. Don't be lulled back into that 
situation. She may seem to be happy on the outside but
inside probably not.


----------



## stro

Don’t buy into the Instagram life. I think we all know people seriously inflate their quality of life on there. She is probably miserable. You feel motivated to get into the gym? That will help you A LOT.


----------



## bandit.45

stro said:


> Don’t buy into the Instagram life. I think we all know people seriously inflate their quality of life on there. She is probably miserable. You feel motivated to get into the gym? That will help you A LOT.


Agreed. 

I know a gal at work who is always Tweeting and Instagramming and is always posting pics of herself at bars and clubs laughing and showing the fun life she is having. But she is as miserable as can be. She's living with her mom, she's over her head in debt, and she's dating a married guy who won't leave his wife for her.


----------



## SweetAndSour

sa58 said:


> Steve
> 
> Remember her family and her issues, you are free of that now.


Unfortunately he is not. With that family back ground and her cheating she must have some serious personality disorder issues. She is still his daughters mother.

Those mothers have certain type of damage on their children, depending on their disorder. I'd advise steve to educate himself about his Xwife's psyche and protect his daughter as much as he can.

When you have small kids together, divorce does not set you totally free unfortunately.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

SweetAndSour said:


> Unfortunately he is not. With that family back ground and her cheating she must have some serious personality disorder issues. She is still his daughters mother.
> 
> Those mothers have certain type of damage on their children, depending on their disorder. I'd advise steve to educate himself about his Xwife's psyche and protect his daughter as much as he can.
> 
> *When you have small kids together, divorce does not set you totally free unfortunately.*


Got that right. But I am starting to come to a different phase of peace. I never wanted to alienate them from their Mother, my STBXW who loves them very much but sort of just took an indifferent outlook on it but as I have come to my own peace in life, at least the very-very beginning of it as I am still on a wild roller coaster emotionally, I find myself encouraging the bond with their mother, in subtle ways. I make sure they have their phones when it is around the time they are about to receive their goodnight message when they are with me and I make sure they wave to her, when I pick them up to take them back 'home'. STBXW did some horrible things to me, that are unforgettable over the past 13 months and it will take me a long time to get over how she split up the family so she can 'be happy' but I find myself not only trying to be the best father I can possibly be, which has never changed but making sure their quality of life and bond with their parents is the best it can be no matter where they are. 

She essentially chose her own perceived fantasy-land happiness route over the ramifications of how it would affect her kids but deep down she loves them and I will not discourage that.


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> Got that right. But I am starting to come to a different phase of peace. I never wanted to alienate them from their Mother, my STBXW who loves them very much but sort of just took an indifferent outlook on it but as I have come to my own peace in life, at least the very-very beginning of it as I am still on a wild roller coaster emotionally, I find myself encouraging the bond with their mother, in subtle ways. I make sure they have their phones when it is around the time they are about to receive their goodnight message when they are with me and I make sure they wave to her, when I pick them up to take them back 'home'. STBXW did some horrible things to me, that are unforgettable over the past 13 months and it will take me a long time to get over how she split up the family so she can 'be happy' but I find myself not only trying to be the best father I can possibly be, which has never changed but making sure their quality of life and bond with their parents is the best it can be no matter where they are.
> 
> She essentially chose her own perceived fantasy-land happiness route over the ramifications of how it would affect her kids but deep down she loves them and I will not discourage that.


 @stillfightingforus, brother, you know you have got to get over her, what is it going to take...


----------



## SweetAndSour

stillfightingforus said:


> Got that right. But I am starting to come to a different phase of peace. *I never wanted to alienate them from their Mother,* my STBXW who loves them very much but sort of just took an indifferent outlook on it but as I have come to my own peace in life, at least the very-very beginning of it as I am still on a wild roller coaster emotionally, I find myself encouraging the bond with their mother, in subtle ways. I make sure they have their phones when it is around the time they are about to receive their goodnight message when they are with me and I make sure they wave to her, when I pick them up to take them back 'home'. STBXW did some horrible things to me, that are unforgettable over the past 13 months and it will take me a long time to get over how she split up the family so she can 'be happy' but I find myself not only trying to be the best father I can possibly be, which has never changed but making sure their quality of life and bond with their parents is the best it can be no matter where they are.
> 
> She essentially chose her own perceived fantasy-land happiness route over the ramifications of how it would affect her kids but deep down she loves them and I will not discourage that.


I don't mean to alienate her from her daughter. In my case I tried to do just the opposite. After our divorce, we moved out our home, but I placed her in a flat in the same building where I live, so kids can see their mother anytime they like. She moved out in a year, eventually she started seeing our kids less and less. Now she is moving to another country. When she shows up she is the loveliest mother, full of kisses and hugs, if her visit takes longer than 4 or 5 hours and she needs to attend their needs like giving my daughter a bath, her face starts dropping. It has been years since the last time she cooked for our kids, she is more of a visitor then a parent.

My Xwife is a covert narcissist, the damage they inflict on their children is well documented. My kids are already showing some usual symptoms due to that effect. 

Nobody is perfect but sometimes it is more serious then some little personal imperfections. His Xwife seems to have some serious issues like mine. If so, their daughter will need to be protected against that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> @stillfightingforus, brother, you know you have got to get over her, what is it going to take...


My path of getting over her is not by being mean, it's the least amount of contact as possible but also making sure the kids know they have two loving parents. I bring this up because my 7 year old daughter has been really emotional the last two weeks and I have been working with her to give her reassurances on how much her parents love her, just at separate houses (she wants mommy to come home) this is after about 2 months of her being happy that we were getting a divorced because of a 2 houses, 2 sets of toys, etc. She is now seeing first hand what it really means.

Does that make sense?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

SweetAndSour said:


> I don't mean to alienate her from her daughter. In my case I tried to do just the opposite. After our divorce, we moved out our home, but I placed her in a flat in the same building where I live, so kids can see their mother anytime they like. She moved out in a year, eventually she started seeing our kids less and less. Now she is moving to another country. When she shows up she is the loveliest mother, full of kisses and hugs, if her visit takes longer than 4 or 5 hours and she needs to attend their needs like giving my daughter a bath, her face starts dropping. It has been years since the last time she cooked for our kids, she is more of a visitor then a parent.
> 
> My Xwife is a covert narcissist, the damage they inflict on their children is well documented. My kids are already showing some usual symptoms due to that effect.
> 
> Nobody is perfect but sometimes it is more serious then some little personal imperfections. His Xwife seems to have some serious issues like mine. If so, their daughter will need to be protected against that.


Oh, wasn't implying that you were, just that in my own case, I have gone out of my way to be beyond reproach and when it comes to the talk of their mother, I reference her in that aspect only, as their mother and answer any questions they have, to be respectful as a I can. One day I will explain to them what marriage is supposed to be like and the commitment involved but when it's applicable and when they are ready and asking.


----------



## BluesPower

stillfightingforus said:


> My path of getting over her is not by being mean, it's the least amount of contact as possible but also making sure the kids know they have two loving parents. I bring this up because my 7 year old daughter has been really emotional the last two weeks and I have been working with her to give her reassurances on how much her parents love her, just at separate houses (she wants mommy to come home) this is after about 2 months of her being happy that we were getting a divorced because of a 2 houses, 2 sets of toys, etc. She is now seeing first hand what it really means.
> 
> Does that make sense?


I understand that it makes sense to you. You being a "Nice Guy" will not bode well for you in the future. It did not bode well for you in the past. I know you are a great person like a lot of guys here. 

I know that you think you are doing everything right, but there will come a time when you will realize what you are doing wrong. I just wish I could convince you where you are going wrong. 

But I guess I never will be able to... peace...


----------



## SentHereForAReason

BluesPower said:


> I understand that it makes sense to you. You being a "Nice Guy" will not bode well for you in the future. It did not bode well for you in the past. I know you are a great person like a lot of guys here.
> 
> I know that you think you are doing everything right, but there will come a time when you will realize what you are doing wrong. I just wish I could convince you where you are going wrong.
> 
> But I guess I never will be able to... peace...


I guess you are right, it is still going to take me time to understand because I am not even directly interacting with her, when I tell the kids goodnight when they are over there, I send them messages on their devices. In my mind I'm trying to be a good/nice parent and not a nice ex-husband. 

I could be wrong but I would like to think by letting go of her and letting go of the anger, not forgetting but letting go of the anger, sets me up to eventually find who's right for me without handing them a sh&& ton of baggage. I have learned a lot and I know what to look for, what I should expect and what I should command from here on out when I am ready to start seeing what's out there for me.


----------



## SweetAndSour

stillfightingforus said:


> My path of getting over her is not by being mean, it's the least amount of contact as possible but also making sure the kids know they have two loving parents. I bring this up because my 7 year old daughter has been really emotional the last two weeks and I have been working with her to give her reassurances on how much her parents love her, just at separate houses (she wants mommy to come home) this is after about 2 months of her being happy that we were getting a divorced because of a *2 houses, 2 sets of toys*, etc. She is now seeing first hand what it really means.
> 
> Does that make sense?




This is exactly what we said to our kids for sugar coating. My then, 6 years old son told to us that "it actually means I don't have a main home." He was so right. 

My daughter is eight years old and she misses mommy a lot. I am called to school more than once to let me know that my daughter needs more mommy time. Every new school psychologist rediscovers it. 

Our kids may be going through similar problems, stillfighting.


----------



## MyRevelation

stillfightingforus said:


> I have learned a lot and I know what to look for, what I should expect and what I should command from here on out when I am ready to start seeing what's out there for me.


I'm really not trying to be a ****, but offer some outside perspective. While the above may be your goal, what and how you post here doesn't look anything like the above to an outside observer.


----------



## SweetAndSour

stillfightingforus said:


> Oh, wasn't implying that you were, just that in my own case, I have gone out of my way to be beyond reproach and when it comes to the talk of their mother, I reference her in that aspect only, as their mother and answer any questions they have, to be respectful as a I can. One day I will explain to them what marriage is supposed to be like and the commitment involved but when it's applicable and when they are ready and asking.


I am afraid such a day will come when they grow up that they will want to know what happened to us. I don't know how will I tell what I know. Its going to be painful.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MyRevelation said:


> I'm really not trying to be a ****, but offer some outside perspective. While the above may be your goal, what and how you post here doesn't look anything like the above to an outside observer.


Honestly, as strong as I think I believe myself to be independently. It's going to take me getting a boost when I start dating again and to start to feel the enjoyment of that. Problem is, I refuse to begin that process until the case is officially closed on July 9th. So while she started her process of latching onto the one that almost got away again, over a year ago now, I won't begin until I officially retire marriage on that day. 

The weekend after the finalized divorce, it's my weekend not with the kids, so I will be heading out of state to visit my brother and have some fun. My brother and a few of my best friends want to take me to Vegas this Summer. I have a long road ahead of my but all I can do is keep my feet moving. And pumping the f*** out of iron at the gym.


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## seadoug105

How is this T/J helping Scuba_steve???

If ya all want to give stillfightingforus crap do it on his thread or create your own.


----------



## sa58

I agree with you about his daughter's mother
SweetandSour. Steve and his wife share a daughter together.
His wife and her family will be in his daughters life.
They should be they are family. He will be free from 
the wife and her cheating and manipulation. As he
stated he knows about her issues. 

I believe he can and will bring balance to his daughter's
life. At least his daughter will not spend her entire life
in a possible toxic home situation. At least now his 
daughter will have a chance with one great responsible 
parent. Hopefully Steve will only have to deal with his life
and his daughter's.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

bandit.45 said:


> You're gaining weight probably because you have been eating out. You gotta stop that. Cut back and start cooking lots of fish and veggies at home.
> 
> How is your STBXWW paying for a gym membership if she doesn't have a job?


I can't remember the last time I actually made myself a home cooked meal.I've been living off fast food for the last 3 months. That's somewhat needs to change asap.

The same way she paying her mortgage, car payment, cell phone bill, Her daddy’s money. My STBXW started working as her dads property manager. I don’t how much she actually does but I’m guessing very little. But she most be getting paid pretty good given the fact that she didn’t even ask for child support.

But like I said it’s not my problem. Her financial situation is her problem. I have more than enough problems the last thing I need to do is worry about hers unless they have a direct affect on my daughter.


----------



## Marc878

Did you expose to her other mans wife?


----------



## Marc878

Get in a habit of exercising and eating right. It's a mindset. Getting 30 xtra ponds off won't be easy but you don't need another problem right now.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

SweetAndSour said:


> Good luck to you and to your daughter. You will still have a great impact in her life whatever you do or choose not to do. You have a good start by having the shared custody. She is too young, she will probably won't remember the days when you all were in the same home. She may easily grow cold on you if you are not in her day to day life.


The last part is something that worries me. Although we have 50/50 custody my stbxw spends more time with out daughter. Over the last two months I’ve realized that I am not the father that I thought I was. A good father would be able to make time to spend with his kids. Yet here I am constantly finding time for everything else but not my daughter. My stbx wife was the one that made spending family time a priority not me. It’s something that I have to change for me and my daughter.

My stbxw was ****y wife but she is a great mother


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Scuba_Steve said:


> Since she lost her job she’s been going to the gym like crazy and it’s starting to show. Most of her Insta post are of her* looking the best she has in years* or something fun she’s doing with our daughter. It makes somewhat envious and jealous of the way she’s living compared to me.


 That's just the wrapper ( and a glorified Instagram one at that), You know how rotten and black she is under the wrapper, don't let yourself forget it. She cheated on you AND didn't care enough to look good for you until you were gone.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Scuba_Steve said:


> *she is a great mother*


She is not a great mother. She will never be probably. A good mother doesn't do what she did when she has a baby and a husband at home. 



Scuba_Steve said:


> *My stbx wife was the one that made spending family time a priority*


This kind of thinking still gets me sometimes, looking back to our good times with my Xwife, she was the most caring woman. But, i know better now. If her family was her priority none of this should have ever happened. 



Scuba_Steve said:


> * Over the last two months I’ve realized that I am not the father that I thought I was. *


After I realized who my Xwife and who I was myself in the process, following divorce, I had to figure out who I am, what a family is, what a parent is then. Delving in to my own mistakes was an eye opener but I am more honest to myself now.

Good luck steve.


----------



## SweetAndSour

sa58 said:


> At least his daughter will not spend her entire life
> in a possible toxic home situation.


Divorce doesn't make it any better for children if they were not exposed to violence or other dysfunction in the family. Young kids can not put it into words but they know and they suffer their loss.

But you are right sa58, they can't go back. It would turn toxic soon if they'd stayed together.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Marc878 said:


> Did you expose to her other mans wife?


OM's wife may be too old to handle this but his children may be informed.


----------



## sa58

So she now has to rely on daddy's money. No child support to her,
no money at all. Give her the house and keep your hard earned assets
and take care of yourself and your daughter. You are starting a new stage
in your life. It will take time to adjust, career, time with your daughter. It takes
more than just fun and games to be a parent . Be a strong and loving father
in time she will see who she can trust and come to when necessary. 

Sorry if this bothers you but as for your STBXW a quick recap.
I know you still care about her but this is my viewpoint of her.

Tried desperately to impress her her father, dual major in college
and other things, now must rely on him for income (Failed)

Marriage to a successful and loving man, and a child. Threw it
all away by cheating with a POSOM. (Failed)

Resigned from her career of ten tears because of her cheating. (Failed)
Maybe even ruined another woman's marriage (Failed)

Tried to make everything go away by using her child and her sexuality,
sex and more sex Begging and pleading and writing BS letters to you. 
Water works tears and everything else in between. You did not fall 
for any of it. (Failed)

She probably does not realize she is at fault for any of this either.
She probably will continue to lie and blame everyone else also.

You are the stronger person and she is the weak one here. In most
of your posts you realize the things you need to change to make yourself 
better. You will !! She probably will continue just being who she really is.
Broken and not willing to see the issues and change. I think what she has
done will catch up to her soon. Daddy will get tired of supporting her, and unless
she has other business contacts her career is probably done. 

How many successful men would pursue her if they found out how she really is.
Divorced because she cheated and her family issues ? 
She may find herself very lonely, and hard to find someone 
who actually cares. Someone who is not just after her assets. Someone like
YOU. 

My advise and many others is take to care of yourself. Start eating right and get in shape.
Take your daughter for long walks and work out. You can do somethings at home. Pushups
sit ups, free weights. Adjust your time to be with your daughter more. You realize this already!
Keep your daughter close and an eye on the STBXW. Remember your wife is just part of your 
life. Your daughter is part of you. Remember what you thought her priorities were ( her family)
and what they really turned out to be. 

Sorry for the long post but, show her what she really lost. It will take time but you can.
As Rubix Cubed said ignore the wrapper, you know what is inside.


----------



## ButtPunch

Scuba_Steve said:


> The last part is something that worries me. Although we have 50/50 custody my stbxw spends more time with out daughter. Over the last two months I’ve realized that I am not the father that I thought I was. A good father would be able to make time to spend with his kids. Yet here I am constantly finding time for everything else but not my daughter. My stbx wife was the one that made spending family time a priority not me. It’s something that I have to change for me and my daughter.
> 
> My stbxw was ****y wife but she is a great mother


Nice solid introspection here.

Fix this. Your daughter needs her Dad.


----------



## Evinrude58

Build your life how you want it. When you get your life right, nothing else will matter anymore.

You’ve got time to be the dad you want to be.


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> My stbxw was ****y wife but she is a great mother


I am going out on a limb here... All you TAMers divorce cheerleaders please yell at me, insult me or whatever (I don't care), but take it easy on Scuba, he is in a difficult place still. 

Scuba Steve,

What all of your most recent posts clearly convey, while not explicitly saying, is that you have many regrets about the current situation. You really wish you could go back before all of this happened.

Like the quoted statement above, you keep defending your STBXW while expressing disgust at what she did.

You still find her attractive physically. You probably still love her for her good qualities, on some level. You miss her companionship. You miss your intact "little family". You are doubting yourself and wondering how badly the divorce will affect your child.

But you are a man with backbone. You will not let her get away without severe consequences. She betrayed you willingly, without any justifiable reason. You no longer see her as trustworthy, with good reason. She should now understand that you are not a man to be disrespected and betrayed.

She now regrets her infidelity. (Don't want to get into semantics over regret vs remorse.) She didn't think you would actually cut her loose. She slept outside your door. She quit her job (noting that you explain to us that she has a parental safety net - nice to have for someone to cheat on their spouse).

When she realized she couldn't avoid the divorce, she sadly accepted it without much fighting. Your attorney thinks she wants to reconcile (it is not likely that he is making this up out of the blue).

So...

I think you should allow the divorce to run through and finalize. Your old marriage is dead; she killed it. Based on what she did and for how long, you should not re-marry her under the traditional model that includes monogamous sexual fidelity. She proved convincingly that she does not or can not take such a pledge seriously.

But...

I think you should let yourself consider the possible set of circumstances where you could continue to have a closer than arms-length relationship with her going forward after the divorce is final, if that is what you want. Perhaps dating her, perhaps family vacations together. Raisng your child together in a loving manner. (I think you are a way better father than many because you are worrying for your childs upbringing and your ability and responsibility in it.) Discuss this with her and see how she reacts. Don't worry that the betrayal-hardened people here will call you weak or something if you choose to do this. Their perspective is not wrong, just different.

Good luck.


----------



## Evinrude58

Go back to a woman who not only lacks the character to show self control when it comes to other men’s advances? Who basically spit in Steve’s face and wanted nothing to do with him and made him doubt himself in the worst ways possible?

He clearly is not over her. If he keeps thinking maybe, he never will be.

Steve, take some time and date some other women. Only date women whom you admire and feel are MORE attractive than your wife.
There will be lots of them.
If you still feel like your wife is worth giving another chance, nobody will do anything but support you here.

However, giving her another opportunity to break your heart and destroy your life without giving yourself the chance to be totally free of the feelings you once had for the person she WAS—- that would be cheating yourself.

You can reconcile with her. However, is living with the knowledge that she valued you so little to do this, and not giving yourself the chance to find a more loyal mate really a life you want?

She is who she showed herself to be. 
Disloyal. 

That character trait will not improve with age.
She is who she is.


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> I am going out on a limb here... All you TAMers divorce cheerleaders please yell at me, insult me or whatever (I don't care), but take it easy on Scuba, he is in a difficult place still.
> 
> Scuba Steve,
> 
> What all of your most recent posts clearly convey, while not explicitly saying, is that you have many regrets about the current situation. You really wish you could go back before all of this happened.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> I think you should allow the divorce to run through and finalize. Your old marriage is dead; she killed it. Based on what she did and for how long, you should not re-marry her under the traditional model that includes monogamous sexual fidelity. She proved convincingly that she does not or can not take such a pledge seriously.
> 
> But...
> 
> I think you should let yourself consider the possible set of circumstances where you could continue to have a closer than arms-length relationship with her going forward after the divorce is final, if that is what you want. Perhaps dating her, perhaps family vacations together. Raisng your child together in a loving manner. (I think you are a way better father than many because you are worrying for your childs upbringing and your ability and responsibility in it.) Discuss this with her and see how she reacts. Don't worry that the betrayal-hardened people here will call you weak or something if you choose to do this. Their perspective is not wrong, just different.
> 
> Good luck.


You know, I for one don't disagree with your basic point for Steve. And in fact, she looks like someone that, might, have a chance at a relationship with him. And, other have said that. 

But that is for Steve to decide, and even with all of the advice as some of it varied, he has stayed his course. 

Further, I find this affair by his wife particularly harsh. It happened at the place that they both worked, with an older player, and she has a husband that is for the most part fit, and sexually active. I mean there are so many reasons for him to never look back. 

You know, if he did decide to let her back in in whatever way, I would support him, and if he never did I would as well.

But there is a reason that most people say to divorce, because very few reconciliations work out...

I just want Steve to do what he thinks is best...


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> You know, I for one don't disagree with your basic point for Steve. And in fact, she looks like someone that, might, have a chance at a relationship with him. And, other have said that.
> 
> But that is for Steve to decide, and even with all of the advice as some of it varied, he has stayed his course.
> 
> Further, I find this affair by his wife particularly harsh. It happened at the place that they both worked, with an older player, and she has a husband that is for the most part fit, and sexually active. I mean there are so many reasons for him to never look back.
> 
> You know, if he did decide to let her back in in whatever way, I would support him, and if he never did I would as well.
> 
> But there is a reason that most people say to divorce, because very few reconciliations work out...
> 
> I just want Steve to do what he thinks is best...


Strangely I agree 100% with you Blues on this post. One of the few reconciliations that has actually worked is Lonely Husband 43210.


----------



## azimuth

She is someone who kept a box of condoms in the marital home, to use for her affair. I don't think she's a good candidate for R. With her behavior post-discovery, she seems highly manipulative and phony (imo).


----------



## sokillme

BluesPower said:


> You know, I for one don't disagree with your basic point for Steve. And in fact, she looks like someone that, might, have a chance at a relationship with him. And, other have said that.
> 
> But that is for Steve to decide, and even with all of the advice as some of it varied, he has stayed his course.
> 
> Further, I find this affair by his wife particularly harsh. It happened at the place that they both worked, with an older player, and she has a husband that is for the most part fit, and sexually active. I mean there are so many reasons for him to never look back.
> 
> You know, if he did decide to let her back in in whatever way, I would support him, and if he never did I would as well.
> 
> But there is a reason that most people say to divorce, because very few reconciliations work out...
> 
> I just want Steve to do what he thinks is best...


Just because someone has potential doesn't make them the best choice. He is young and can do better. I mean the fact that her daddy is taking care of her is probably a good idea why this all happened. She is probably spoiled and will continue to be so. She was never forced to face consequences, he would probably protect her from the fallout with Steve if he could. 

Steve needs to heal but there is better out there for him. I want Steve to find a life that is best. His thinking is probably not very clear at the moment, which is why it's good to heal first. 

Steve what happened to the old guy was he fired? Does his wife know yet?


----------



## wilson

I think I'd be cautious with any sort of reconciliation consideration because of the nature of this affair. I'm more pro-reconciliation when there are these conditions:

1. There are kids involved, and
2. The marriage had some obvious issues at the time of the affair.

Here there are kids, but the marriage wasn't under any obvious strain. It seems more like she had the affair because she wanted the fantasy and excitement more than she was self-medicating for relationship problems. It doesn't sound like there were any major problems that needed to be fixed to make the marriage more stable. So going forward, there would always be the risk that a new Mr. Excitement would cause the right kind of zing in her and she'd fall into old patterns.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

During your marriage did you and your wife have any major
arguments about you spending more time with her and your 
daughter? Did she ever say you and her needed to go to
counseling for that ? Did she ever threaten to leave or divorce
because of that ? Did she ever pack a bag and go stay with her 
mother because of that ? The only time she took your daughter 
and went to stay with her mother is when she got caught cheating.
Do not let her or anyone including yourself blame you for any reason for her 
cheating. Regardless of anything she decided to, lie and cheat, not fix anything..
I am just saying this now before anyone uses it as an excuse. (SBXW)

Growing up your mother and father pursued business and properties didn't they?
You grew up alright didn't you ? Your friends father started his own company while 
he was growing up didn't he ? Did he grow up alright ? Your wife was raised mostly
by her grandparents and seemingly lacked love and attention from her father. I bet 
your family is being very supportive and concerned for you and your daughter now.
Since your sister knows what is going on and you have concerns about time with your
daughter. I suggest you lean on her for a lot of support. ( A women"s perspective)
As you have said you realize there are things you need to do better. That makes you 
stronger because you see and will fix what is broken. Does your STBXW ?
Simply put given the history of both sides of the family, take advice from yours.

I bet your STBXW knows you are looking at her pics and how hard she is working
to get in shape. She seems to concentrate more on her outer self and attempt 
to use it to get what ever she desires. She is however disregarding the other 
issues. Even thou she said she would. Has she even attempted counseling ?
Has she even suggested counseling for both of you ? Looks eventually fade
over time, other things make for a long lasting and happy relationship. But 
as the old saying goes sex sells. Are you buying it ? You find her hot and desirable
and she knows this. I think you want and deserve a more committed relationship.

How you choose to continue your life is your choice. I will support you here on TAM
either way. I understand your concerns about life going forward. I do not however 
think you are spending time helping others. I do think you have and are forgetting 
about yourself. Take care of yourself, your daughter needs her father healthy and 
strong. Both inside and out. What she will get from your wife's side of the family
remains to be seen. 

In my viewpoint, until your STBXW realizes there are other things
that need to be fixed , she has left you no other choice. Respectfully 
until she truly tries to fix this, proceed with the divorce. If she had 
a one night stand, an affair with someone close to her age or 
even with someone younger. Then she was just looking for a sexual
thrill,and made a mistake. However given her family history and who she 
cheated with there are issue's that need to be fixed. You see them, she even
said she would seek counseling for them . Correct? What other steps has she 
taken to show true regret and remorse. Just dressing up the same old exterior.
More attempts at manipulation? More empty hollow promises in letters ?
What about the deeper problems ?

In my viewpoint there can be reason's for divorce. If you are unhappy,
and the marriage is broken then divorce. After all everyone deserves 
to live there life without misery. There can be reason's for reconcile 
If children are involved especially. I always support the betrayed spouse
however. There is never a reason for infidelity. The selfish cheating
spouse always causes great harm to their spouse and children. Cheating 
is a very loathsome and selfish thing. To place at risk someones emotional
and physical ( STDs ) well being which they trusted you with, is lowest
thin you can do to someone.

These are just my viewpoints however the choice remains yours.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> Since she lost her job she’s been going to the gym like crazy and it’s starting to show. Plus, with all the free time she has she’s been doing fun activities with our daughter. Most of her Insta post are of her looking the best she has in years or something fun she’s doing with our daughter. It makes somewhat envious and jealous of the way she’s living compared to me. Everything seems have worked for her,


I think there should be a bit of modesty when posting pictures online that your children can see someday. Also I think the pics send a message about the person. How sexy are the pics? What are your wife advertising to others about the pics? Who are the audiences she is aiming for? You?

Steve, last I thought I read here, you seemed to be giving your wife a second chance. What happened for you to end it?


----------



## Lostinthought61

What is she going to do about finding another job?


----------



## MThomas

Scuba_Steve said:


> The last part is something that worries me. Although we have 50/50 custody my stbxw spends more time with out daughter. Over the last two months I’ve realized that I am not the father that I thought I was. A good father would be able to make time to spend with his kids. Yet here I am constantly finding time for everything else but not my daughter. My stbx wife was the one that made spending family time a priority not me. It’s something that I have to change for me and my daughter.
> 
> My stbxw was ****y wife but she is a great mother


I am sorry you are going through this. Your thread was recommended for me to read. Crappy wife but great mother is very similar to me. My W always did wonders with our two kids and her older daughter. I can't say the same since our DDay but I know our conflict has spilled over.

My W was an exceptional cook. Me, can't say much. But I have been learning on the fly. Fish, chicken, pasta, veggys. She still mainly cooks for the entire family four times a week and I do twice. As for laundry, she still does it but I still maintain the yardwork. Things are still tense but stable. Maybe it is a 'who will blink first.' 

I have two daughters. One by birth, early teens. The other was from her high school flame. It was rough at first but for the last ten years, we have connected. She calls me dad, just like my daughter does. The one thing she always thanked me for was given the fact I worked a lot, had two other kids, I still made time for her. It was not quantity but quality. 

Of all the three kids, she is giving the wife grief. Course she knows more of the goings on than the two younger. If I do move out she has said she will be a frequent guest to help make my house look more like a home.

Steve if you can not give a great deal of time with your daughter, make the small amount quality-worthy. Grab an ice cream and just let her lead the conversation. Watch a movie with her and eat pizza. Pick out a movie you liked at her age and see if she likes it. Try cooking something you are skilled at and let her help.


----------



## Marc878

Great mothers don’t destroy their families


----------



## sa58

Agree 100 % Marc878 plus-

Great mothers don't wait until their daughters father is out
of town, and drive his car to another state to see another man.

Great mothers don't drive their husbands car more than he did 
during valentines week to see another man.

Who did she leave her with daughter while she was doing this ?
What was her priority ?
Her daughters father was out of town earning money for the family.
She decided her priority was to spend time with OM and not her daughter.

Great mothers don't try and use their daughter to manipulate 
their husband who they cheated on.

What a great loving and caring mother ?
Maybe one with some serious issues perhaps ?


----------



## SweetAndSour

A woman I met after my divorce who was considering a long term relationship asked me how close me and my Xwife still were.

She knew we were divorced and we were in contact only when it is necessary for the kids.

I didn't get it at first but lady had some wisdom.

My X and I were still doing family brunches during weekends, shopping for kids together, going to school meetings together many other things even going to family vacations, staying in the same room with my kids and my Xwife together. In my phone log her number stayed on top as the number called to and from, most. 

I have been doing the "carrying a civilized relationship and being there together for the kids" thing until recently. 

I hope it did good for the kids but doing that for the last five years after divorce has definitely warped my mind. I continued to have her in my dreams sometimes, not wet dreams but talking to her, or doing daily stuff as if we were still married, I felt terrible in such mornings. That is not good.

I don't know what I am trying to say exactly but It is a very delicate act. 

I'll leave it there.


----------



## Marc878

SweetAndSour said:


> A woman I met after my divorce who was considering a long term relationship asked me how close me and my Xwife still were.
> 
> She knew we were divorced and we were in contact only when it is necessary for the kids.
> 
> *I didn't get it at first but lady had some wisdom.*
> 
> My X and I were still doing family brunches during weekends, shopping for kids together, going to school meetings together many other things even going to family vacations, staying in the same room with my kids and my Xwife together. In my phone log her number stayed on top as the number called to and from, most.
> 
> I have been doing the "carrying a civilized relationship and being there together for the kids" thing until recently.
> 
> I hope it did good for the kids but doing that for the last five years after divorce has definitely warped my mind. I continued to have her in my dreams sometimes, not wet dreams but talking to her, or doing daily stuff as if we were still married, I felt terrible in such mornings. That is not good.
> 
> I don't know what I am trying to say exactly but It is a very delicate act.
> 
> I'll leave it there.


It's a form of cake eating. It's great for her. You not so much. No other woman is going to want an X in the mix. You effectively kept yourself bound up in this whether you realized it or not.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Marc878 said:


> It's a form of cake eating.* It's great for her.* You not so much. No other woman is going to want an X in the mix. You effectively kept yourself bound up in this whether you realized it or not.


It is not great for her either, My X is pretty psycho. 

My kids keep counting the days to weekend so they can see their mommy. She sees her kids only for couple of hours during weekends. If I don't create occasions, she would choose to see them less. 

I can honestly say that I hate her for the harm she caused to me and to my kids. I wouldn't shed a tear if she was gone tomorrow but I wouldn't want that happen for my kids sake either.

I say to my close friends that, she is a mommy that I feed and keep in an aquarium for my kids, if it makes sense in english.

It stalled my recovery progress towards freeing myself from her but I like to believe that it helped my kids.

That is a challenge steve is up now, hopefully in a lesser degree.


----------



## Marc878

SweetAndSour said:


> It is not great for her either, My X is pretty psycho.
> 
> My kids keep counting the days to weekend so they can see their mommy. She sees her kids only for couple of hours during weekends. If I don't create occasions, she would choose to see them less.
> 
> I can honestly say that I hate her for the harm she caused to me and to my kids. I wouldn't shed a tear if she was gone tomorrow but I wouldn't want that happen for my kids sake either.
> 
> I say to my close friends that, she is a mommy that I feed and keep in an aquarium for my kids, if it makes sense in english.
> 
> It stalled my recovery progress towards freeing myself from her but I like to believe that it helped my kids.
> 
> That is a challenge steve is up now, hopefully in a lesser degree.


Sorry for you but you can't fix her and sooner or later the ruse will play out. It's only a question of time


----------



## sa58

I think Steve's biggest challenge now is time. Time to heal
and move on. He has already realized he needs to take better
care of himself, and spend less time working . He knows he needs
to make more time for his daughter. His STBXW tried using sex and 
everything else to get him to stay. He moved out anyways. I think 
he is stronger than his wife thinks. 

I think from his posts that Steve has a great family and friends 
support network. Hopefully he will lean on them. He also has TAM
and a wealth of knowledge here. His STBXW simply ran home to
daddy and his money. His STBXW is probably wondering why
everything she has tried to smooth this over has not worked.
I don't think she really understand what she has thrown away.

I think Steve has already realized he can not fix her. 
She does not seem to be willing. Just keeps trying
more manipulation., and it isn't working!!

My son' and his Ex keep a civilized relationship concerning
their daughter.. My son since their divorce two years ago
has had many relationships. Most of them better looking than 
his Ex. My son does not go to any of her family functions nor does she 
come to ours. Only birthday parties, and school functions. 


Steve. Update us when you can. Take care of yourself.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Marc878 said:


> Great mothers don’t destroy their families


Simple, yet oh-so-powerful statement Marc. I think I'm going to use this in my signature if you don't mind.


----------



## GusPolinski

Marc878 said:


> Great mothers don’t destroy their families


Turns out this is 100% correct.


----------



## Beach123

SweetAndSour said:


> A woman I met after my divorce who was considering a long term relationship asked me how close me and my Xwife still were.
> 
> She knew we were divorced and we were in contact only when it is necessary for the kids.
> 
> I didn't get it at first but lady had some wisdom.
> 
> My X and I were still doing family brunches during weekends, shopping for kids together, going to school meetings together many other things even going to family vacations, staying in the same room with my kids and my Xwife together. In my phone log her number stayed on top as the number called to and from, most.
> 
> I have been doing the "carrying a civilized relationship and being there together for the kids" thing until recently.
> 
> I hope it did good for the kids but doing that for the last five years after divorce has definitely warped my mind. I continued to have her in my dreams sometimes, not wet dreams but talking to her, or doing daily stuff as if we were still married, I felt terrible in such mornings. That is not good.
> 
> I don't know what I am trying to say exactly but It is a very delicate act.
> 
> I'll leave it there.


Very unhealthy... leads everyone involved a false sense of togetherness. A form of not facing reality.

Makes it impossible for any potential date to penetrate that family barrier.

It's more like pretending to be married after you divorced! After I divorced - everything I did and said screamed "I'm not married to you anymore". 

It's a healthy way to live = in reality. Words and actions should show you're divorced if you are.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beach123 said:


> Very unhealthy... leads everyone involved a false sense of togetherness. A form of not facing reality.
> 
> *Makes it impossible for any potential date to penetrate that family barrier.*
> 
> It's more like pretending to be married after you divorced! After I divorced - everything I did and said screamed "I'm not married to you anymore".
> 
> It's a healthy way to live = in reality. Words and actions should show you're divorced if you are.


I am giving examples from my experience as I see that it fits but I don't want to change focus to my story. This is steve's thread.

One difference between my divorce and steve's is we are much older then him and his STBXW.

I met My X when she was 20 and I was 25. We were together since in some form. We were officially married for 21 years. When we were divorced I was 48 with 2 young kids. I was disgusted of her when we were divorced, I have never entertained the idea of getting back with that sick human being.

Regarding penetrating our family barrier, unfortunately we are so old and been together for so long that everything is cast in concrete. Neither 53 years old me and my 48 years old X will not get a second chance in life. We can still have great love affairs but no more families. 

Two old Xs with two young kids. Very dysfunctional but this will be our only family forever, how sad it is.

Good news is steve has the potential to make it better for himself and his daughter.


----------



## Thor

SweetAndSour said:


> Regarding penetrating our family barrier, unfortunately we are so old and been together for so long that everything is cast in concrete. Neither 53 years old me and my 48 years old X will not get a second chance in life. We can still have great love affairs but no more families.
> 
> Two old Xs with two young kids. Very dysfunctional but this will be our only family forever, how sad it is..


But you still have all that history and all the family memories. The good stuff. It did happen and you have the pictures and memories. If/when you get married again you will have a new family of some sort without kids together. But you still have your kids from the first marriage. You will still have grandkids. That stuff doesn't disappear when you start a new ltr/marriage.

Yes you do lose the option of growing old together with the same person you married decades ago. As someone who was married over 30 years, I do understand this as a loss due to divorce. But the world isn't a Disney movie, and we have to play the cards dealt us. In this real world, the new relationship will be much better than staying with the first wife, because that first wife turned out to be a bad spouse!

So think of it as you get to keep the best of the old stuff, get rid of the worst of the old stuff, and add some great new stuff into your life.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Thor said:


> But you still have all that history and all the family memories. The good stuff. It did happen and you have the pictures and memories. If/when you get married again you will have a new family of some sort without kids together. But you still have your kids from the first marriage. You will still have grandkids. That stuff doesn't disappear when you start a new ltr/marriage.
> 
> Yes you do lose the option of growing old together with the same person you married decades ago. As someone who was married over 30 years, I do understand this as a loss due to divorce. But the world isn't a Disney movie, and we have to play the cards dealt us. In this real world, the new relationship will be much better than staying with the first wife, because that first wife turned out to be a bad spouse!
> 
> So think of it as you get to keep the best of the old stuff, get rid of the worst of the old stuff, and add some great new stuff into your life.


I remember your story Thor. I know you understand more than I say. 

Thanks for sharing your positive outlook.


----------



## Scuba_Steve

azimuth said:


> She is someone who kept a box of condoms in the marital home, to use for her affair. I don't think she's a good candidate for R. With her behavior post-discovery, she seems highly manipulative and phony (imo).


I agree with you and you’re aren’t the first person to tell me this. One of my best friends who happens to be a psychologist told me to be careful with her. That people like my wife develop manipulative side. My wife knows me better than most. The way she’s acting is like her. She isn’t that agreeable or someone who easily expects things. The question is if she is doing is because it’s the best way to get what she wants or because she truly sorry. Does she real love me or does she only wants back together to avoided negative stigma of being a divorced single mother and cheater.


----------



## badmemory

Scuba_Steve said:


> he question is if she is doing is because it’s the best way to get what she wants or because she truly sorry. Does she real love me or does she only wants back together to avoided negative stigma of being a divorced single mother and cheater.


That's why, for someone considering R, they should take months (or the time it takes before divorce is final) before committing to it. If she's not genuinely remorseful, that's enough time to start see the cracks in the foundation.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Scuba_Steve said:


> I agree with you and you’re aren’t the first person to tell me this. One of my best friends who happens to be a psychologist told me to be careful with her. That people like my wife develop manipulative side. My wife knows me better than most. The way she’s acting is like her. She isn’t that agreeable or someone who easily expects things. *The question is if she is doing is because it’s the best way to get what she wants or because she truly sorry*. Does she real love me or does she only wants back together to avoided negative stigma of being a divorced single mother and cheater.


A very clear, simple question demanding an either "this or that" answer when things are more complicated than that.

Would you be satisfied with either answer alone, especially when it is not clear what she is sorry for really.


----------



## azimuth

Scuba_Steve said:


> I agree with you and you’re aren’t the first person to tell me this. One of my best friends who happens to be a psychologist told me to be careful with her. That people like my wife develop manipulative side. My wife knows me better than most. The way she’s acting is like her. She isn’t that agreeable or someone who easily expects things. The question is if she is doing is because it’s the best way to get what she wants or because she truly sorry. Does she real love me or does she only wants back together to avoided negative stigma of being a divorced single mother and cheater.


You know her better than anyone, too. And you have a really good head on your shoulders to spot manipulation. I think time will tell if she's all in for real. I wouldn't rush anything, but I know you already know that.


----------



## Kamstel

Steve, is there an updated estimated timeline for when the divorce will be final?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

answer the question about what has happened to grandpa and the old CEO. 

Grandpa OM was fired, I haven’t contacted his wife but last I heard she was going to divorce him. I don’t know why or if she knows what he’s been doing. I probably will be being contacting her after my divorce is over. The only reason I haven’t is because I’ve been advised my attorney not to do so until the divorce is finalized. After the divorce is done I promise you I will make it my life’s mission to destroy him and his life for what he’s done to me and my little girl. 

As for the CEO his still working but he isn’t the CEO anymore we can call him J, he’s been moved to advising role. The only reason he’s staying on is because his track record and reputation is still pretty good. Honesty the guy is not a bad guy. He just isn’t cut out to be the top guy. He let his friend, grandpa OM create a toxic work environment. He ran his department like it was a frat house. Some of the stories I’m hearing is crazy. The whole department was filled with lairs and cheaters its insane what was going on. Even J himself didn’t know half of what was going on. It’s a huge mess HR department is making everyone in a management position take a mandatory workplace harassment training program. I spent 3-day relearning things that I learned in preschool and kindergarten. Its was a waste of time but I understand it.


----------



## Kamstel

Steve,
What ever happened to grandpa and the ceo?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Kamstel said:


> Steve, is there an updated estimated timeline for when the divorce will be final?



If everything goes as planned by September I should be official single


----------



## Kamstel

Lol
Typed that a while ago 
Sorry


----------



## Kamstel

Have you had your first date yet 

Not that there is a rush


----------



## Kamstel

What does the rumor mill say about everything ?


----------



## TDSC60

Scuba_Steve said:


> answer the question about what has happened to grandpa and the old CEO.
> 
> Grandpa OM was fired, I haven’t contacted his wife but last I heard she was going to divorce him. I don’t know why or if she knows what he’s been doing. I probably will be being contacting her after my divorce is over. The only reason I haven’t is because I’ve been advised my attorney not to do so until the divorce is finalized. After the divorce is done I promise you I will make it my life’s mission to destroy him and his life for what he’s done to me and my little girl.
> 
> As for the CEO his still working but he isn’t the CEO anymore we can call him J, he’s been moved to advising role. The only reason he’s staying on is because his track record and reputation is still pretty good. Honesty the guy is not a bad guy. He just isn’t cut out to be the top guy. He let his friend, grandpa OM create a toxic work environment. He ran his department like it was a frat house. Some of the stories I’m hearing is crazy. The whole department was filled with lairs and cheaters its insane what was going on. Even J himself didn’t know half of what was going on. It’s a huge mess HR department is making everyone in a management position take a mandatory workplace harassment training program. *I spent 3-day relearning things that I learned in preschool and kindergarten. Its was a waste of time but I understand it.*


How did I miss this!!!! You work for the same company?????


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

I have always wondered how much of this crap your wife might
have know about. She seemed to know a lot about Tattoo guy. 
Did she quit her job because she knew things were
going to blow up at work, or to get away from OM ? 


Knowing your wife's history, Grandparents raised her. Bad relationship with her father, 
mother and father divorced 5 times. I think that she would have tried 
to avoid her life and especially her daughters from turning out like this.
It seems to only be about her. 

Has she even tried counseling like she said ?

Not only will she have the stigma of being a divorced cheating single mother,
but her career future is crap also. She cheated with OM (Fired) Ceo got demoted,
and the other crap there. She resigned in the middle of this and who will her next
employer call, for references ? How much of this will follow her for a long time ?

With out daddy's help things do not look good in my viewpoint.

Maybe she could bag up the crap she has been giving you and sell it.
It should make the neighborhood flowers grow really good !!

You have a great family and friends support network, you and your 
daughter will do great in the long run. Your wife not so well, she probably
doesn't even see how she messed up, Maybe doesn't care ?

Your daughter has a great father, it shows !!


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

Have you come to the moment that you understand that without your wife you will be good? By this I mean you will still have struggles in life, but that you will be fine with or without your wife. If you have come to this moment, then you can now accurately gauge your wife. I didn’t look for the big changes in my wife, they were very noticeable, I looked for the minuscule changes. These can be noticed in many ways, when she is alone, do you notice pain showing? Is she more sad when you are all together. Do you see her stare at you in a way that she regrets her choices? Is she different with your daughter? By different I’m asking if she is more loving, more protective, more time spent with her that is productive. 

What I’m asking you is if you see a completely changed person not resorting to how she was before. Has she changed her complete self, is she humble or still prideful? When talking to you is she defensive? What is her attitude like, does she understand the damage fully? Finally, do you see remorse, does she feel your pain?


----------



## drifting on

Wish I had read more then just the previous page before responding. Let me say something about Instagram and Facebook posts, to illicit a response. From my point of view, if your wife is not in some way including you in those posts, I would say it’s manipulative. She could always say at the end that her and your daughter missed scuba Steve. Instead I see it as manipulation and a facade that she is doing so much and so well. You may need to make time with your daughter a larger priority, as you said, but I think your wife is manipulating you and sadly your daughter also. Hopefully on that I’m wrong, in that your wife is trying to show your daughter she does more and has more fun with her. What I post on Facebook in regards to family is genuine, I tell it in a story of what we did together. My wife is mentioned and sometimes not, but it’s not a facade, it’s real life of something we did to share with friends and family.


----------



## sa58

Scuba Steve

Are you taking better care of yourself ?

Eating better, starting to workout ?

If not why not ?


----------



## Scuba_Steve

Update 

September 12 is the date. I will be officially divorced. 

I found out Monday, I’m feeling very dejected at moment. I wasn't expecting to feel this way. Its like everything is coming into focus. All the plans and dreams I had, the thoughts of growing our little family and thoughts of growing old with each other are all gone. None of this is what I asked for or wanted I was happy. Was my marriage prefect, no. Was I prefect, no. I know living and dealing with me can be difficult. But I was willing to do anything to fix any problems we might have had. My wife and daughter were my number one priority. Everything I did was for them. Let here I am facing a divorce that was never in my plans or wanted. Learning and trying to start all over and learning I’m going to have to deal with a set of new problems. And for what my wife still claims to love and would do anything to repair damage. Now after everything that has happened she’s asking for us to talk things out and to try counseling. Yet where was all of this when she decided to replace me. 

Life really is a *****.


----------



## Marc878

Life isn't always fair. It's something we all have to deal with one way or another.

How's your health? Have you started eating right? Exercise?


----------



## Suspicious1

I'm terribly sorry you and your daughter are going through such horror.

Please take care of yourself.

S1


Scuba_Steve said:


> Update
> 
> September 12 is the date. I will be officially divorced.
> 
> I found out Monday, I’m feeling very dejected at moment. I wasn't expecting to feel this way. Its like everything is coming into focus. All the plans and dreams I had, the thoughts of growing our little family and thoughts of growing old with each other are all gone. None of this is what I asked for or wanted I was happy. Was my marriage prefect, no. Was I prefect, no. I know living and dealing with me can be difficult. But I was willing to do anything to fix any problems we might have had. My wife and daughter were my number one priority. Everything I did was for them. Let here I am facing a divorce that was never in my plans or wanted. Learning and trying to start all over and learning I’m going to have to deal with a set of new problems. And for what my wife still claims to love and would do anything to repair damage. Now after everything that has happened she’s asking for us to talk things out and to try counseling. Yet where was all of this when she decided to replace me.
> 
> Life really is a *****.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Edmund

Scuba_Steve said:


> Update
> 
> September 12 is the date. I will be officially divorced.
> 
> I found out Monday, I’m feeling very dejected at moment. I wasn't expecting to feel this way. Its like everything is coming into focus. All the plans and dreams I had, the thoughts of growing our little family and thoughts of growing old with each other are all gone. None of this is what I asked for or wanted I was happy. Was my marriage prefect, no. Was I prefect, no. I know living and dealing with me can be difficult. But I was willing to do anything to fix any problems we might have had. My wife and daughter were my number one priority. Everything I did was for them. Let here I am facing a divorce that was never in my plans or wanted. Learning and trying to start all over and learning I’m going to have to deal with a set of new problems. And for what my wife still claims to love and would do anything to repair damage. Now after everything that has happened she’s asking for us to talk things out and to try counseling. Yet where was all of this when she decided to replace me.
> 
> Life really is a *****.


Scuba,

I will get a lot of hate for this, but I suggest you read the thread "The Charade" by TAM poster named "One Eighty". Similar situation to you; his XW cheated with an older man, he found out and divorced her, but yet they have continued to live together in a loving relationship for 6 years since then ("for the sake of the children") and pretend (to the outside world) to still be married in every way, except that they have an understanding that it is not a lifetime commitment. When the children or grown or either meets someone else, they will just part ways. That thread makes most of the folks here incredulous, but it seems to work for the most part for them. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## azimuth

I'm so sorry.


----------



## Evinrude58

I Had these same feelings.

You will get past it. PAST it. If you keep moving on. Don’t stop and wallow in it.

Grieve the loss of who you thought your wife was. But try to keep moving forward.

It hurts, but she will totally lose the abiltiy the affect you emotionally if you put her behind you, and that will be a wonderful thing.

I still have to see my ex wife regularly. She still pulls a to try to get at me. It doesn’t wirk


----------



## BluesPower

Scuba_Steve said:


> Update
> 
> September 12 is the date. I will be officially divorced.
> 
> I found out Monday, I’m feeling very dejected at moment. I wasn't expecting to feel this way. Its like everything is coming into focus. All the plans and dreams I had, the thoughts of growing our little family and thoughts of growing old with each other are all gone. None of this is what I asked for or wanted I was happy. Was my marriage prefect, no. Was I prefect, no. I know living and dealing with me can be difficult. But I was willing to do anything to fix any problems we might have had. My wife and daughter were my number one priority. Everything I did was for them. Let here I am facing a divorce that was never in my plans or wanted. Learning and trying to start all over and learning I’m going to have to deal with a set of new problems. And for what my wife still claims to love and would do anything to repair damage. Now after everything that has happened she’s asking for us to talk things out and to try counseling. Yet where was all of this when she decided to replace me.
> 
> Life really is a *****.


Steve, I know that you are hurting and feeling bad. Everything that you have been to hurts. 

But like you said, you did everything for your family. You are not the one that ruined this, your STBXW did. 

Not that it makes it hurt less, because it does not. But it is easy for her to say she still loves you now, after everything she has done. It is easy to act like you are the most important person in her life. 

But you are not, and you were not, she is the most important person in her life, even above her own daughter.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Steve, I've read a lot of TAM stories and I know how yours ends. You'll be back here in 1-2 years to give an update. 

You'll tell us you've met a wonderful woman who is very different from your wife. In fact, she's made you realize what deadweight your ex was, and makes you wonder why you put up with so much. Your relationship with your daughter is better than ever. Sure, you don't get to see her as much as you'd like, but the time you spend with her is of higher quality than it was before. Ex wife is not looking so good--about 10 years older and a sad face. You feel a bit sorry for her, but it's really not your problem and she still seems to be an adequate mother.


----------



## skerzoid

Scuba_Steve said:


> Update
> 
> September 12 is the date. I will be officially divorced.
> 
> I found out Monday, I’m feeling very dejected at moment.


1. The reason you are miserable is that you still love her.

2. You will be in a relationship with her at least as a coparent for the next 15 years.

3. After the divorce, if you remain miserable, you can try dating or living with her if you wish.

4. I have several friends who happily remarried after divorce. They are very devoted to one another.

5. This is not the end of your dreams, just a switch in direction. You may find someone else you are much happier with, maybe not.

6. The main thing is be the best dad you can be, the other things are secondary. And don't let your business get in the way of that father daughter relationship.


----------



## Kamstel

Please reread Tatsuhiko’s post again!

Yes, you are hurting now, but brighter and better days are so close! You just don’t realize it!

Hopefully you have cut out the fast food and started hitting the gym again! The gym will be such a great way for you to beat the negative thoughts out of your head!

Keep your head down for just a bit longer! Just don’t keep it down that you miss all the women flirting with you, and FYI, they are already


----------



## OutofRetirement

Scuba_Steve said:


> my wife still claims to love and would do anything to repair damage. Now after everything that has happened she’s asking for us to talk things out and to try counseling. Yet where was all of this when she decided to replace me.


As far as "she decided to replace me," I don't believe that. I believe she enjoyed the attention. As far as I can tell, this is somewhat of an epidemic, wives who are willing to have affairs because of attention. (I think cheating husbands generally have different motives.)

As far as her "claims to love" and "asking for us to talk," talk is cheap. And mostly meaningless. There are many ways to communicate and, arguably, talk is one of the least effective. Her actions told, and if I recall your previous posts, her actions still are telling, a different story than her words. I thought you said she was going to the gym and getting ready full steam for the dating world.

From my point of view, your wife doesn't seem to get it. At all.


----------



## ABHale

Steve your wife is one of two that I have ever read about that I believe is truly remorseful for what she did. 

I still believe that you should divorce her as well. After that it’s up to you. 

Go on a few dates and see what you feel. Date your ex a as well if she wants. But if she dates others then you know she isn’t serious about fixing the relationship. 

Before I get blasted, Steve’s ex is the one that cheated and should do all the heavy lifting on that part. Steve needs to date others to see if he can form any connection with another lady. Steve’s STBX needs to prove she can be faithful to Steve as he figures out if he can build a relationship with her after the divorce. If he wants to that is. 

If she is faithful after the divorce then I would say that she really is in love with you Steve. All the remorse and tears are real. All the chasing you is because she is in love with you. 

If she starts dating then I would say that she loves you in a way but would have cheated again. 

Sorry for the pain you’re going through Steve.


----------



## stro

The recklessness of your wife’s actions baffle me. Risking your family and your future happiness for WHAT? Some compliments and attention from womanizing old prune at your job. WHY?! 

Indedelity is a special kind of misery man. I don’t know your wife, only you know if she is or ever will be capable of actual remorse and could ever be trustworthy again. And I don’t know exactly what it’s like to be broken as you are so I won’t say, “give her another shot”. But I know you didn’t stop loving her when she broke your family apart. That’s kind of the damnable misery of it all. The fact that SHE did this to your little family but yet you LOVE her and she claims to love you, yet her you are. Divorce final in a month. 

Have you been to counseling? Consider going if you haven’t. With or without her. I think there is some value in rebuilding SOME kind of relationship with her even if it is just as co parents. Having your daughter see that could be beneficial as she grows up. However if you can’t go with her, go by yourself. GET HEALTHY, mentally, emotionally and physically.


----------



## Chaparral

There is nothing wrong with going to counseling with her. But, you especially need counseling for yourself. Probably PTSD counseling.

You say she wants to save the marriage. How is she approaching this? What has she done to prove herself? How is she doing? Are you already separated? Is she getting counseling? Has she had a real come to Jesus revelation?


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## Hoosier

I was divorced after 30 years of marriage. My xw had an affair. I remember very well the bittersweet feeling after my divorce was final. I still loved her, I still wished for us to be together, but she made it very clear that she was not interested (for this I thank her today, made it easier) in being with me.
You didnt want the divorce, but if you are going to be divorced, embrace it. Date, have fun, with time it will be less and less of a negative, in fact you might just be like me and look back as one of the best things that ever happened!

Time will heal, but it takes............TIME. Good luck to you, go slow into the new world of many exciting women who desire your time and attention.


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## inging

If you are considering reconciliation then you need to look at reality.
1. Has she ceased all contact with the OM
2. Are her feelings for you there.

Nothing can happen until those two conditions are met. 

If they are met that you can start. There will be a lot of anger, a lot of pain and you may not be able to get over it. There is no shame either way.
The reality of Divorce with young children is that you are not able to walk away. You are not able to heal. Only now that my kids are grown am I really able to see a future free of my ExW. That was 8 years ago..

What ever you do,, you need to see someone to help unpack this. I don't mean talk about the deep rooted blah blah.. I mean stop your thought processes looping. Give you mental jobs to do. Practical advice from a professional.


----------



## Decorum

This thread has grown to many pages.
I am sorry SS to see you so broken.

You will get to the other side of this, but you will have to do much of it alone.

Find support wherever you can.

I hope for a brighter outlook from you someday, but you have my sympathy for your loss of this marriage.

I really do wish you well.
Take care.


----------



## rv10flyer

ABHale said:


> Steve your wife is one of two that I have ever read about that I believe is truly remorseful for what she did.
> 
> I still believe that you should divorce her as well. After that it’s up to you.
> 
> Go on a few dates and see what you feel. Date your ex a as well if she wants. But if she dates others then you know she isn’t serious about fixing the relationship.
> 
> Before I get blasted, Steve’s ex is the one that cheated and should do all the heavy lifting on that part. Steve needs to date others to see if he can form any connection with another lady. Steve’s STBX needs to prove she can be faithful to Steve as he figures out if he can build a relationship with her after the divorce. If he wants to that is.
> 
> If she is faithful after the divorce then I would say that she really is in love with you Steve. All the remorse and tears are real. All the chasing you is because she is in love with you.
> 
> If she starts dating then I would say that she loves you in a way but would have cheated again.
> 
> Sorry for the pain you’re going through Steve.


Now you know of three, my wife.


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## ABHale

rv10flyer said:


> Now you know of three, my wife.


Have not read about your wife. 

Don’t know your story. 

If I found out my own wife was cheating, I would not stay with her. 

Don’t assume I would think your wife the third. 

Hope you and your wife are happy.


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## scaredlion

When it comes to the end of the road, only you have the answers to what you want. Will you be happier without her than with her? Do you still love her? Does she really love you? Could you ever get by what she did and be happy with her? Are the "what ifs" going to trouble you for a long time? If she really tried could you see a life with her? These are all questions that only you, and you only, have the answers. No advice, no encouragement, no "this is what I did when my wife cheated", nothing can give you a true answer except you. I have read so many of these stories of infidelity, over the years, where I would have done things totally different than what the BS actually did or was told to do. Stories where the BS hurt so bad they couldn't function and I would have been so angry I would have burned someone's world to the ground. Where the BS "took the high road" and I would have goaded the AP into a physical confrontation. Everyone has their own way of dealing. Do what is best for you. I do wish you well.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Steve,

I am going to give you some advice. My wife cheated on me after 29 years of marriage. I went ballistic, rode the emotional roller coaster you are on, went to my condo in south Florida for six weeks with basically no communications with FWW. I had issues I learned I had to deal with after going to the VA. Once I had time to think for three days without the tv or any company and intensive prayer and reflection by my fire pit at my farm a question popped into my head “would my life be better with or without my wife”. On a pad of paper for three days I wrote the pro side of r and the negative side of r. Fortunately, the pros outweighed the cons. I am almost three years into R.

I am just letting you know the r is possible, but only if your spouse shows true remorse. Only you will know this. @driftingonprovided you some solid 411. You must do what is in you best interest. Only you can read your wife. I looked into my wife’s eyes and I saw true remorse.

From you last posts I gather you are having second thoughts. Have you gone to individual counseling? If not you may want to consider.
It would not hurt to have someone to discuss what you are going through from an objective position. IC may give you affirmation you are doing the right thing.

Keep you head up. In the Corps we are taught to “improvise, adapt, and overcome”, I hope you will take this to heart. Use it as your mantra.
You will come out of this **** storm stronger, resilient, like an old oak tree.


----------



## azimuth

Reconcile or not, I would go through with the divorce first. My stbx filed for divorce but had second thoughts. We “reconciled” and canceled the divorce proceedings. A few months later he opened dating profiles and started dating behind my back during the R. When I found out about that, we were over for good and had to file for divorce again. Filing a second time was humiliating, I felt like such an idiot.


----------



## [email protected]

This is another that I truly hate! The creature never really loved Scuba, but he hasn't found the backbone to get rid of her. He'll never be happy 'till she's out of his live (with the exception of parenting).


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## Scuba_Steve

I wish I could say I was doing great, but the truth is I’m in a pretty bad spot in all areas of my life now. Nothing really seems to be going my way.

Health wise I’m probably the heaviest I’ve ever been in my life, a good 25 lbs. over weight. I’m tall so for most part it doesn’t really show. The last time I went in to a gym was probably a couple of weeks before Dday. I used to be very active. Hit gym at least 4-5 times a week and soccer or basketball on weekends. I haven’t done either since Dday. As of now I have zero desire to change any of this. Although I’ve been getting hit more now than before. It doesn’t make much sense but whatever, I don’t really care. Maybe it's because I’m single, almost.

Then you have my work situation. I’m simply doing a ****ty job. I’m missing deadlines and the work that I manage to hand in on time is subpar at best. If my friend wasn’t my direct boss, I would probably I have been fired already. It’s probably getting close to that point. Yesterday we talked, and he told me I could take some time off if I need it. I don’t blame him, it’s a business after all, he can’t keep carrying his work load plus my work load.

I also haven’t really improved things on the dad front. My wife and I are supposed to have 50/50 custody, but my wife is the one who has her most of the time. I used to use the work excuse, but half of the time I’m not in a position where I could take care of her the way I need to. It’s been worrying my lawyer. She scared my wife is documenting all of this and she might use it to go for full custody. I don’t think she would but then again, I never thought she would cheat. Sometimes I think to myself, it might be what’s best. My wife is clearly the more capable parent.

If that wasn’t enough might be running into money problems soon too if I don’t get my **** together. I bought a piece of property a couple of months back, which is turned into dead money. At the time it seemed like a good idea. It was a good investment and it gave me something to keep my mind off the divorce and my wife. I used most of my assets to require the loan to buy the property, it was a risk I was willing to take. But now it’s looking like the biggest mistake of my life.

To top it all off I’m on my way to developing a drinking problem. Yep life’s a *****.


----------



## Marc878

Get some IC help quick. You are stuck in the victim mode and that is not going to help you at all.

Easier said than done I know. Get yourself up and make yourself go to the gym, walk run, etc. it'll help clear your head and give you some energy.

This isn't the end of the world. Many go through this. 

Better wake up or you'll be in worse shape and it'll be you putting yourself there.


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## bandit.45

You have depression. 


Get to a shrink before you lose everything.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

bandit.45 said:


> You have depression.
> 
> 
> Get to a shrink before you lose everything.


Listen to bandit. Nip the depression in the ass now.
Get to a doctor Monday pronto. Meds can take the edge off. Make time for you Steve. Hit the gym! It makes you feel better. Take care of you.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> I wish I could say I was doing great, but the truth is I’m in a pretty bad spot in all areas of my life now. Nothing really seems to be going my way.
> 
> Health wise I’m probably the heaviest I’ve ever been in my life, a good 25 lbs. over weight. I’m tall so for most part it doesn’t really show. The last time I went in to a gym was probably a couple of weeks before Dday. I used to be very active. Hit gym at least 4-5 times a week and soccer or basketball on weekends. I haven’t done either since Dday. As of now I have zero desire to change any of this. Although I’ve been getting hit more now than before. It doesn’t make much sense but whatever, I don’t really care. Maybe it's because I’m single, almost.
> 
> Then you have my work situation. I’m simply doing a ****ty job. I’m missing deadlines and the work that I manage to hand in on time is subpar at best. If my friend wasn’t my direct boss, I would probably I have been fired already. It’s probably getting close to that point. Yesterday we talked, and he told me I could take some time off if I need it. I don’t blame him, it’s a business after all, he can’t keep carrying his work load plus my work load.
> 
> I also haven’t really improved things on the dad front. My wife and I are supposed to have 50/50 custody, but my wife is the one who has her most of the time. I used to use the work excuse, but half of the time I’m not in a position where I could take care of her the way I need to. It’s been worrying my lawyer. She scared my wife is documenting all of this and she might use it to go for full custody. I don’t think she would but then again, I never thought she would cheat. Sometimes I think to myself, it might be what’s best. My wife is clearly the more capable parent.
> 
> If that wasn’t enough might be running into money problems soon too if I don’t get my **** together. I bought a piece of property a couple of months back, which is turned into dead money. At the time it seemed like a good idea. It was a good investment and it gave me something to keep my mind off the divorce and my wife. I used most of my assets to require the loan to buy the property, it was a risk I was willing to take. But now it’s looking like the biggest mistake of my life.
> 
> To top it all off I’m on my way to developing a drinking problem. Yep life’s a *****.


This is the kind of thing that medication for a short period of time may be good for. Just until you can get back on your feet. 

Also go to a counselor who specializes on grief as that is what you are doing, grieving the death of your marriage. 

But in the end the best thing I can say to you is you have to have courage. You are not the first and you are not the worst. It is possible to have this happen in your life and you can still have a wonderful one. But you have to have the courage to fight and believe there is hope even when you can't feel it. It's like you are in a dark woods with no end in site you have to take one step in front of you over and over. Pretty soon there is a hint of light and then the clearing. 

YOU CAN DO THIS! Start making yourself go to the gym that would be a good start. Just make the goal to go to the gym, working out will help with the depression. Find something else to focus on something you always wanted to do. 

But force yourself to have hope. Trust ALL of us, This too shall pass! I promise you this!


Steve - one more thing man. Your wife being and ******* says nothing, NOTHING, about you. The only thing you did wrong was pick the wrong person. Most people do that at least once in there life. You were operating from your own perspective, you are not a heartless cheater. Love for you comes with a loyalty component. Why wouldn't you assume it would for others. That is how it is supposed to work. That is what we are taught. Until you encounter someone like you wife you have no idea. 

Trust me, it says absoultly nothing about you as a spouse, or in bed, your attractiveness, or anything else. Please give yourself the courage to believe that even if you don't feel it. I remember the feeling. It sucks but the feeling is a lie. Trust all of us who have been through it. OK man. Take comfort in the fact that this is not about you AT ALL. You still have a lot to offer. You were a good spouse, you just need to find the right person. 

No matter what it's going to get better. It just takes time. You will see, even if that seems impossible now. It's like a sunburn, hurts like hell but slowly gets better.


----------



## drifting on

Scuba

I read your post and as you’ve been told, you are suffering from depression. See your doctor to get some short term meds to help you. Furthermore, you are shutting down in many ways, this can be very harmful to you. I can tell you that this will soon spiral faster, thoughts will be fleeting, and then you will become overwhelmed. Making decisions both at work and personally will suffer as a result. In my opinion, much of this is a result from both fear of the unknown and what you see from your wife. This has given you conflict, conflict you never asked for nor wanted, but you must find your answer. 

It is clear you haven’t reached the point that you know you will be fine with or without your wife. You are still loving the wife you thought you had, until she showed you differently. Now she is showing you with words and actions what she truly wishes to have. Yet your conflict in your heart and brain have left you in a state of confusion. This is understandable, many here have gone through this. Both options you were forced upon are very difficult, but you must now make that decision. 

I’ve asked you questions in previous posts to try to help, they’ve gone unanswered. The more you post the better the advice. I’m not going to advise one way or the other, but I will advise you to get yourself healthy again to make your best choice from a position of strength. I sincerely wish you the best.


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## Evinrude58

Get some help for the depression. Anyone can see that you are about to run into problems.

Yes, your wife will go for full custody of you don’t start holding up your end. No doubt. 
If only to put you in a bind financially with child support. You’re already in a bind.

Why are you letting your work suffer if you aren’t busy with your kids? Just sitting around drinking, not working out, and moping?
Yeah, you need some antidepressants.
Badly, before you get fired.

Are you going to go to the dr and get some medication for this? If not, you’re going to lose everything.

Make yourself call your dr and make yourself go to the appt. hell, just show up! You need some freaking help badly, bro.

We are all rooting for you.


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## sunsetmist

Tagging what others have said.

Do you want to be a victim or a survivor? Your choice... I think surviving gives better payout than settling for victimhood.

1. See doctor. Make sure he/she knows how much you are drinking--most meds for depression are not compatible with alcohol. Takes a while for them to work too and your body may need to adjust to some side effects. You could likely do with some Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy--need good therapist. (Do you need AA)?

2. If you don't have the energy to go to the gym, start walking--force yourself to set goals for a certain number of minutes and you might be surprised and do more. Weight management will come with attention to one and two.

3. Work. Many men define themselves by their work performance. Addressing one and two will help, but you may have to try harder 'til they take effect. Don't let your friend, child or self (family) down.

4. You can become whatever kind of parent you choose to be. Your child needs your attention and love--period. DON"T give up on this--you will be sorry if you do. Hope 'not in shape' doesn't mean drunk--do not choose escape over child!

5. So, you are just now mentioning this because you didn't want to have to work at being a better person. Proximity of divorce is scary. Are you regretting/second guessing your choices? This is normal. Choices can still change. You have likely lived through some of the toughest parts. Folks here love to help if you let them.


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## Scuba_Steve

I’ve never been a fan of counseling. Too many things need to go right for it to effective. Finding a good therapist is almost impossible and without one therapy is useless. I’m going to think about it, one of my friends is a licensed therapist. I’m probably going to see her. I would rather talk to her then a stranger. Just to see what she thinks.


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## Scuba_Steve

drifting on said:


> Scuba
> 
> Have you come to the moment that you understand that without your wife you will be good? By this I mean you will still have struggles in life, but that you will be fine with or without your wife. If you have come to this moment, then you can now accurately gauge your wife. I didn’t look for the big changes in my wife, they were very noticeable, I looked for the minuscule changes. These can be noticed in many ways, when she is alone, do you notice pain showing? Is she more sad when you are all together. Do you see her stare at you in a way that she regrets her choices? Is she different with your daughter? By different I’m asking if she is more loving, more protective, more time spent with her that is productive.
> 
> What I’m asking you is if you see a completely changed person not resorting to how she was before. Has she changed her complete self, is she humble or still prideful? When talking to you is she defensive? What is her attitude like, does she understand the damage fully? Finally, do you see remorse, does she feel your pain?




My problem isn’t with my wife. I know I can be fine without her, I was before her and I will be good after her. My issues come into play with the consequences of her actions will have on me and my daughter. The challenges my daughter doing to have to face just because her mother couldn’t keep her legs close. That really piss me off.

At this point I could care less about any changes might have made or is making. The last time we had any conversation that wasn’t about our daughter was around mid-July. Since then most of our interaction have all been about business. She better regret what she did, because of hers a little girl is losing out on what could’ve been a great life.

I don’t have any interest or looking to R at this point. All I want is to be done with her.


----------



## sunsetmist

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve never been a fan of counseling. Too many things need to go right for it to effective. Finding a good therapist is almost impossible and without one therapy is useless. I’m going to think about it, one of my friends is a licensed therapist. I’m probably going to see her. I would rather talk to her then a stranger. Just to see what she thinks.


Therapy is hard work. She may be more comfortable recommending someone, but DO talk to her. It is often what happens in between sessions that is most important. Talking to her is a great first step. There are specific therapies for depression that can help your thinking--help with your anger too. Maybe do some reading also.... 

Appreciate UR quick response. Remember the rest of the suggestions.


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## wilson

We all feel what you're going through. Tell us some fun stuff you've done in your past to get your mind off this. What hobbies do you have? With scuba in your name, I'm assuming you've dived. Where have you gone? Any cool pictures you'd like to share. I've only gone snorkeling, but it was an amazing experience. It was like being in a different world. I want to try diving one day. There used to be a dive shop around the corner from where I live that had it's own training pool, but it closed down. I often wish I would have gone, but that was back when I had little kids and little free time. Now that they are mostly grown up, I should look into it again.


----------



## sokillme

Scuba_Steve said:


> My problem isn’t with my wife. I know I can be fine without her, I was before her and I will be good after her. My issues come into play with the consequences of her actions will have on me and my daughter. The challenges my daughter doing to have to face just because her mother couldn’t keep her legs close. That really piss me off.
> 
> At this point I could care less about any changes might have made or is making. The last time we had any conversation that wasn’t about our daughter was around mid-July. Since then most of our interaction have all been about business. She better regret what she did, because of hers a little girl is losing out on what could’ve been a great life.
> 
> I don’t have any interest or looking to R at this point. All I want is to be done with her.


Hey man I want to tell you most of my life with my father he was a single parent. From the age of 7, I saw him 3 day during the week. Wednesday night, Friday night and all of Saturday. It wasn't as much as it could have been but we spent the whole time together. Like from the point he picked me up, cooked me dinner, watched TV, helped me do homework, and then went to bed. We talked and really built a good relationship. Saturday we always did something fun together, rode bikes, go to a game, whatever. I am sure I had a closer relationship to my Dad then most kids did. 

I got to tell you I cherish those memories. The older I get the more I think back to those times. They were great. I became much closer to him after the divorce then before. I am still very close with him. We were texting about Tiger Woods today while the golf was going on. As far as me and my parents, I had a great life. I am super close to both of them. The divorce didn't change that if anything it made it better. The divorce was hard but I ended up being fine. 

You have full control of what kind of relationship you have with your daughter. And you and your wife STILL have the most input on how her life is going to go. What kind of relationship you have with your daughter is thousands of times more important then you sleeping every night under the same roof. Take a deep seated interest in her life even now. Even if it's not the kind of thing that interests you. Make sure she knows you love her unconditionally (parent to child) is the one place this seems healthy. This is the one time where it is OK to just innocently give love to a person. Spend time with her. Let her know that she is important to her father. You are going to be her first and primary example of what a good man is. That is what she needs and the divorce is no reason for that to NOT happen. You have no excuse for that, you are that girls father. That is the most important thing you are probably going to do in your life. You can do this, it just takes you making it your mission.

You got to change your thinking right now. It's really hurting you and that is hurting her. Common man, one step at a time.


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## azimuth

About the property, you aren’t the first or the last to make a bad investment. It happens whether you’re married or not, even the best dealmakers have made bad deals. I would chalk it up to a risk that didn’t pay off and move on. Make the bare minimum of payments on the loan or whatever and set it out of your mind until later what to do with it. Right now I’d focus on your job first, then being a dad. I went through hard times at work too, especially during lunch I’d close the door and cry in my office. But that phase doesn’t last forever. It simply can’t. Your job will secure your present and future so I’d make that a priority. Also, getting good sleep and drinking water, eating healthy.

Time with your daughter, you don’t have to compete with the fun things mom’s doing. You can create your own routine and memories. I wanted to make up for the family we lost and I was driving myself insane because it’s impossible. Now I’m just focused on me and her. We play card games and read together, do homework. I’m sure your daughter loves just being with you. For us after 15mos of separation my daughter is doing great. She doesn’t cry about us not being together anymore. Her one issue is that she doesn’t want to tell anyone at school because none of her friends parents are divorced.

I understand the pain of a family breaking up because of one person’s actions or decision. It’s like we’re all being punished with the loss of the family. It hurts like hell. Everything we built is gone, they didn’t see anything worth losing. And every dream for the future is gone too. It’s a terrible loss. But it does get better.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scuba_Steve said:


> My problem isn’t with my wife. I know I can be fine without her, I was before her and I will be good after her. My issues come into play with the consequences of her actions will have on me and my daughter. The challenges my daughter doing to have to face just because her mother couldn’t keep her legs close. That really piss me off.
> 
> At this point I could care less about any changes might have made or is making. The last time we had any conversation that wasn’t about our daughter was around mid-July. Since then most of our interaction have all been about business. She better regret what she did, because of hers a little girl is losing out on what could’ve been a great life.
> 
> I don’t have any interest or looking to R at this point. All I want is to be done with her.


Steve, your rage is perfectly understandable. Your wife insulted you to the core of what it is to be a man, a husband ,a father, a life partner and what it means to trust a friend. 
Please for the sake of your daughter and your future relationship with her cut back on the alcohol and talk to someone. Forget about your preconceived ideas on what counseling works and what does not. Go see your friend and rant. You have a right to rant and be angry and you should. Let your friend listen and help you or direct you to someone else who will listen to you and help you develop some tools and skills to deal with a mess you did not ask for but non the less must dealt with. 

As far as reconciliation with your wife I suspect she does not really have any idea how deep her cut to you went. Has she admitted why she did what she did? Did she answer the hard questions like "What was missing in our sex life that would let you cross dozens of boundaries to betray me and lie to my face repeatedly"? Was he better than me? I could post a dozen more like that which will linger in your head for years from now. Does she understand that those are the memories you will have of her for years going forward?


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## ABHale

Scuba_Steve said:


> My problem isn’t with my wife. I know I can be fine without her, I was before her and I will be good after her. My issues come into play with the consequences of her actions will have on me and my daughter. The challenges my daughter doing to have to face just because her mother couldn’t keep her legs close. That really piss me off.
> 
> At this point I could care less about any changes might have made or is making. The last time we had any conversation that wasn’t about our daughter was around mid-July. Since then most of our interaction have all been about business. She better regret what she did, because of hers a little girl is losing out on what could’ve been a great life.
> 
> I don’t have any interest or looking to R at this point. All I want is to be done with her.


So pull yourself together for that little one of yours or you will be the one that ruins your daughter’s life. Pull your head out off your ass and just do what has to be done. Go back to the gym. Start hang out with friends. Do your job at work. Be there for your daughter. 

If you don’t stop the “how could she do this to our daughter” you will be the one that everyone points to saying “how could he do that to his daughter”.

Get your head straight.


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## farsidejunky

Dude. 

That you became a victim is not your fault. 

That you remain a victim? That is absolutely on you.

Stop ****ing drinking. 

Start ****ing exercising.

You can either start making decisions that will lead to you building respect for yourself, which you're clearly lacking, or you can just lay down and watch it all fall apart.

Everything you need is in your grasp. It's up to you whether you're going to grasp it...or just let it go.

It starts with getting your ass out of the victim chair.

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## FieryHairedLady

Steve, you need to get your life back on track for you and your daughter.

What happened to you is Brutal.

Don't let her win.

You need to hold your head up high.

Unfortunately you will have to deal with what happened and your wife/ex wife no matter what.

Better to face this head on, healthy and in charge.

You will have to deal with her one way or another.

Figure out what you need for you whether it is counseling, church, a self help group, hiking, biking, running, etc.

You got kicked down hard.

But you need to get back up again.

Don't let her win.


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## 3Xnocharm

ABHale said:


> So pull yourself together for that little one of yours or you will be the one that ruins your daughter’s life. Pull your head out off your ass and just do what has to be done. Go back to the gym. Start hang out with friends. Do your job at work. Be there for your daughter.
> 
> If you don’t stop the “how could she do this to our daughter” you will be the one that everyone points to saying “how could he do that to his daughter”.
> 
> Get your head straight.


AB you read my mind word for word! Scuba your daughter can still have a great life, but she needs her dad to pull his crap together in order for that to happen!


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## drifting on

Scuba_Steve said:


> My problem isn’t with my wife. I know I can be fine without her, I was before her and I will be good after her. My issues come into play with the consequences of her actions will have on me and my daughter. The challenges my daughter doing to have to face just because her mother couldn’t keep her legs close. That really piss me off.
> 
> At this point I could care less about any changes might have made or is making. The last time we had any conversation that wasn’t about our daughter was around mid-July. Since then most of our interaction have all been about business. She better regret what she did, because of hers a little girl is losing out on what could’ve been a great life.
> 
> I don’t have any interest or looking to R at this point. All I want is to be done with her.





Got it, thanks for clearing that up, yet I don’t think you read my last post. Perhaps the rage inside you and the drinking have gotten you to the point that you feel you can’t rise up. Maybe you feel defeated, your work and personal health have taken a turn for the worse. By your own admission your drinking is increasing and performance at work taking a dive. I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror, truly see yourself, then decide if you like what you see or if you are strong enough to become healthy once again. The place you are in is terrible, but it gets far worse. The choice is yours, only yours, and I can only hope you make the correct choice. 

Therapy is in some ways a gamble, find a good therapist and it’s not a gamble. It’s recovering your life, learning to embrace your flaws, and the willingness to evaluate oneself to become stronger and healthier. Therapy is not to be a coffee talk, your session is to have you feel a range of emotions, and if your friend is a good therapist they will refer you to someone else. Therapy is very difficult, very rewarding, but how much are you willing to work at it? I’m asking because you are drinking heavily, withdrawing, and allowing your performance to slip at work. Much like I had to discover, that’s on you and not your wife. Take care of yourself, engage yourself back into your life and take control. 

I was devastated and destroyed by my wife’s affair, suicidal for thirteen months, tried to shoot myself in the head, and I failed badly. A time will come that you decide, live like this or take back my life. I entered therapy, I changed lifestyle habits, I became stronger and healthier. In fact I’m much stronger, healthier, and happier today then I have been in a very long time. I got there by making that decision, like @farsidejunky said, the first step is lifting your ass from the victim chair. Then stop drinking, realize your view is much bigger then the size of the bottle opening, see your world. 

I wish you the best scuba, I really do, I only hope you make your decision before you hit rock bottom.


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## sa58

Steve.

Sorry to hear things are going bad right now.
Go see your therapist friend, she knows you
and can help. Stop thinking about what the 
STBXW is doing and concentrate on you. 
Your daughter will have a great life, WITH YOU !!

Of course your STBXW is documenting everything.
She knows the divorce will be final soon. Then she is 
on her own. Daddy has never been there before so she 
is going to try and get what she can from you. Money, child
support, leverage etc. It will be hard because of what has happened
but you will make it through this. This wound will heal but the scar will
remain however.

Stand up and fight, for yourself and your daughter's future.
When describing her and her family you said broken, I would say BS crazy.
You and your family have to be there for your daughter. In my viewpoint 
you should document everything she and her family has and will do, and 
someday try for full custody. Do not let them win !! When I say them I 
am talking about her, her family and OM. He got fired , what about you ?
If your friend has offered some time off and you need it then take it.
Your friend seems to be a true friend but your right it is a business. 
Take some time off and go someplace with your daughter.

Direct your anger towards becoming better than ever. Show her what she
truly lost. That will be the best revenge on all of them. Do not let the crazy
side of the family ( HERS ) be the only influence/part of your daughters life.
Remember what she did is not your fault. She is to blame, do not blame yourself.

We are here if you need us, so are your friends and family.
It will bve hard but you can and will get through this. Your 
STBXW will probably continue spiraling downward. Let her !!


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## Chaparral

You don’t have a drinking problem, you have a backbone problem. 
Thee are bad counselors out there like everything else. If you go to a bad counselor, you try another. If necessary find another after that. 

Quit being a quitter. 

You made a bad business decision. Never make major decisions while going through a tragedy. Your mind wasn’t right and obviously still isn’t. 

Your wife made a mess. Now you are multiplying the mess. Stop it. Man up and be a dad. All you're doing is proving to your wife she didn’t make a mistake.


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## Thor

Check out the natural amino acid supplement 5-HTP. It has been shown in studies to be as effective as Rx anti-depressants for many people. It is also effective for anxiety 50 mg mid afternoon and then another 50 mg mid evening. You can double those doses if you don't get results in a few days. Don't go higher than that without consulting with a doc. If you're taking Rx anti-depressants don't take the 5-HTP without telling your doc.

Get out and walk every day. Cut out the substances, and improve your diet. These are easy things to do and will make a big difference.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Scuba Steve! 

Son, get your head out of your ass NOW. Quit having a GD “pity party”! Are you going to simply roll over and drink yourself into oblivion? How will that benefit your daughter? She needs a strong dad. For the love of Jesus, put the ****ing bottle down. It only magnifies your problem. Does you problem permanently go away after you sober up? Hell no it doesn’t.

Trust me as I have been in your shoes and was knocking back six to eight double bourbons per evening for a few weeks after dday. Lucky for me I found this site and got some sense knocked into my hard head. I hit the gym, ran, focused on me and consolidated my ****.

Get into IC, and go see a doctor. In addition to a medical doctor I would encourage you to find a holistic or Naprapathic doctor as they can help you with supplements and natural remedies. You are depressed. Depression will only be temporary if you start working to be the best you can be.

In times like this a good diet is crucial. Avoid fast food as all it is doing is providing you unwanted calories. Get involved in some extracurricular activities in your church or synagogue. You may meet a very nice woman who will appreciate you in one of these settings.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Scuba, do you have a gym membership? If not, get one and start lifting ASAP. Focus your anger/sadness in a positive manner. Plus, your new life after marriage will be a whole lot smoother if you are ripped and confident instead of pudgy and hammered. Eff that ho, take care of you and your daughter.


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## turnera

You're in a midlife crisis because you invested heavily into a dream that fizzled out. Now's your second chance to get the REST of your life right. Go see your friend, the therapist, and have her help you get back on track. Ask her to set you some goals and hold you accountable (and btw, that's exactly what therapists do). Start making ONE new change every day. If you slept until 8, start getting up at 7:45. If you ate cereal, start making eggs. One thing. Every day.


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## BruceBanner

Chaparral said:


> Your wife made a mess. Now you are multiplying the mess. Stop it. Man up and be a dad. All you're doing is proving to your wife she didn’t make a mistake.


So now we're resorting to victim blaming?


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## farsidejunky

Let's be abundantly clear.

Victim-blaming would be to say it's his fault that his wife cheated. What I (as well as the poster you quoted) am (are) advocating for is to stop making the situation worse.

In other words, he's sitting in a house fire and adding gasoline, wondering why things aren't getting better...

"It's okay to feel this way...the gasoline isn't hurting that much."

Bovine excrement. 

You can coddle him or give him empathy, but he has been planted firmly in the victim chair since this occurred.

While this is understandable to some degree, one can only remain in the victim chair so long before they will inevitably make their situation worse.



BruceBanner said:


> So now we're resorting to victim blaming?


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## TDSC60

If your boss offered time off - take it!

You need to get straight. Sounds like you are falling into a deep depression. While this is not uncommon for betrayed spouses, it could end up affecting you in the worst way if you let it go untreated.

Get help for your daughter's sake and for your personal health.


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## sa58

Steve, 

None of what has happened to you is your fault.
Your wife betrayed you, and your daughter.
I saw my son go through the same thing
a couple years ago. What he thought was
his true love betrayed him and his daughter.
You will get through this. We all know you can
and want the best for you and your daughter.

You have a great group of friends and support network.
That tells me you are a very strong and caring person.
You have no doubt been there for them let them be
there for you now.

Do not worry about the STBXW take care of Steve first
then everything else.


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## SweetAndSour

Scuba_Steve said:


> I wish I could say I was doing great, but the truth is I’m in a pretty bad spot in all areas of my life now. Nothing really seems to be going my way.
> 
> Health wise I’m probably the heaviest I’ve ever been in my life, a good 25 lbs. over weight. I’m tall so for most part it doesn’t really show. The last time I went in to a gym was probably a couple of weeks before Dday. I used to be very active. Hit gym at least 4-5 times a week and soccer or basketball on weekends. I haven’t done either since Dday. As of now I have zero desire to change any of this. Although I’ve been getting hit more now than before. It doesn’t make much sense but whatever, I don’t really care. Maybe it's because I’m single, almost.
> 
> Then you have my work situation. I’m simply doing a ****ty job. I’m missing deadlines and the work that I manage to hand in on time is subpar at best. If my friend wasn’t my direct boss, I would probably I have been fired already. It’s probably getting close to that point. Yesterday we talked, and he told me I could take some time off if I need it. I don’t blame him, it’s a business after all, he can’t keep carrying his work load plus my work load.
> 
> I also haven’t really improved things on the dad front. My wife and I are supposed to have 50/50 custody, but my wife is the one who has her most of the time. I used to use the work excuse, but half of the time I’m not in a position where I could take care of her the way I need to. It’s been worrying my lawyer. She scared my wife is documenting all of this and she might use it to go for full custody. I don’t think she would but then again, I never thought she would cheat. Sometimes I think to myself, it might be what’s best. My wife is clearly the more capable parent.
> 
> If that wasn’t enough might be running into money problems soon too if I don’t get my **** together. I bought a piece of property a couple of months back, which is turned into dead money. At the time it seemed like a good idea. It was a good investment and it gave me something to keep my mind off the divorce and my wife. I used most of my assets to require the loan to buy the property, it was a risk I was willing to take. But now it’s looking like the biggest mistake of my life.
> 
> To top it all off I’m on my way to developing a drinking problem. Yep life’s a *****.


Steve, 

You seem in control and doing the right thing in one post and then, in my opinion,... showing your more human side in next post.

I am not going to tell you hit the gym, and stop drinking.

You will suffer, be depressed, suck at work, get fat, drink more. 

Don't beat yourself about those, every decent family man should react in that fashion. Just ride through it. It is better than some artificial therapy and medicine. Let your brain process it in its natural way. Eat, drink and cry. 

Drink but don't talk to your X when you are drunk and your daughter is around and definitely don't drive when drunk, besides all other dangers, you wouldn't want that in you record when you have an upcoming trial.

As long as you don't loose your control in the battle field, you may be a little crazy these days. Give yourself some credit, have some mercy on yourself. 

During my divorce, I was in therapy and put on medicine. None helped me more than comedy movies from my childhood and my old time friends.


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## inging

Steve

You hoped that somehow your children's lives will be unaffected, that you could keep them insulated for just a bit longer. 

You see the pain and the confusion in your children and it is tearing you up. Your ability to work is compromised and as much as you try other thoughts invade your work. The one that will resonate around and around is " How could she" 
The truth is that the answer to that will redefine how you think of her. 
"Because she wanted to" 
It is really that simple.
See things through that lens and the clearer your direction and corresponding actions will become

You can mourn, but the reality is that your life now is different. 

Your wife did not care what the financial and emotional ramifications were. She did not consider them. She cared about herself and her wants and needs. above those of your children. Because she wanted to

Your primary job now is your children's emotional and financial health. Your wife is not a good mother. You just hoped she was. She has proven that she is not. It is your job to stand up as their Father. 

It is your job to build a new home where they can be themselves because as much as you hope that everything is fine and wonderful at their Mothers house. It is not. 

Steve. It is awful. I know. It has taken me ( many) years to recover but I did. I built a new life that is better than the old one. There were many, many false starts, many failures and a lot of pain but you really have no choice. You need to build and one day when the kids are grown you can be proud. It is a long road. 

You must resume regular and consistent contact with your kids. No excuses. They have one parent who does what she wants for herself. They need you to be the rock. You need to stand up. They need you to be present and put them first. 

Steve. Don't join that sad group of men who have lost without a fight. I met them a lot and it never gets better for them.

Insist on Clarity
Insist on Integrity
Insist on honesty

Stand up steve..


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## sunsetmist

Not sure how comfortable you are with your daughter. If UR not, use this time to focus on her and what you don't know. You need at least one good book and you can google almost anything else (start with terrible twos--grin). Do you know her pediatrician/phone number, nursery or pre-school, nap- and bed-times, does she need a lovey to go to sleep, what size she is now, what does she like to eat and does she have any allergies? Keep meds for pain and fever in the house so you don't have to go out at night or bad weather. If so, great--you just sounded a bit at loose ends about this. Expect family can help too.


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## RWB

farsidejunky said:


> *While this is understandable to some degree, one can only remain in the victim chair so long before they will inevitably make their situation worse.
> *


My IC referred to this behavior as my "Warm Fuzzy Blanket of Pain".


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## bandit.45

Get to a psychiatrist dude. You have depression.

We can tell by the way you write and every word you choose.


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## inging

bandit.45 said:


> Get to a psychiatrist dude. You have depression.
> 
> We can tell by the way you write and every word you choose.


Bandit is right. Go see your Doctor and get some help. it is very easy to get stuck at this stage of recovery. Depression is part of your recovery and often we can't think our way out of it on our own


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## kettle

Certainly sounds fishy OP. I wish I could give you good advice but I cant since I am in a mess myself. What I can say is no matter what, you are not alone.


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## sokillme

How are you doing dude. All of here are rooting for you.


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## Jharp

I'm rooting for you Steve. Come on man, pull through this. Don't let it bring you down.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Bump. How are you


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## TDSC60

From Steve's earlier posts, Sept 12 was the day that D was final.

Steve, are you OK. You were served a **** sandwich that you did not see coming. This is all on your XW.

Take care of yourself for the sake of your precious daughter.


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## Edmund

Worried about Scuba_Steve. Is there anything we can do to help him?


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## BarbedFenceRider

Scuba_Steve said:


> I’ve never been a fan of counseling. Too many things need to go right for it to effective. Finding a good therapist is almost impossible and without one therapy is useless. I’m going to think about it, one of my friends is a licensed therapist. I’m probably going to see her. I would rather talk to her then a stranger. Just to see what she thinks.


In my area, counselling is a no go as well. There just isn't much practice here at the border. And to top it off the mexican therapists across the line are only in spanish and pay is in cash. A no go. I ended up finding a men's forum and group. It does wonders for my self esteem and is good therapy to just let it all air out. And get this....They have all been there and done that. So there really is no embarrassment to be had for me. Maybe you could find something similar where you are at? I do know that they have divorce groups, dads for special needs groups and mens health groups...I would assume you could find something around those lines...

I would hit up rescue missions, local govt. planning, churches and faith based areas...Things like that. Bounce questions off of those folks and see what you find out. I'm betting that you will find that you are no so alone in this...You aren't recreating the wheel here.

I will say a prayer for you and still be here to listen... Take care bud. You got this..

"Why do we fall down? So we can get back up!"


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## Edmund

Anyone hear from @Scuba_Steve?


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## niceguy47460

The last post i seen from him he wasn't doing so good . i would say he was so much still in love with his ex that he probably lost everything . he was so missed up he couldn't even do his job . i think that is one guy that should have R


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## MattMatt

Edmund said:


> Anyone hear from @Scuba_Steve?


Worried about Steve.


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## Edmund

niceguy47460 said:


> The last post i seen from him he wasn't doing so good . i would say he was so much still in love with his ex that he probably lost everything . he was so missed up he couldn't even do his job . i think that is one guy that should have R


I agree 100%. If it was me I would have taken her back. Having an affair with someone 30 years older is a case of temporary insanity. It wouldn't be the same but could maybe they could have rebuilt their relationship on a new foundation of love for their child. I hope he didn't commit suicide.


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## GoldenR

I guess I'm not seeing whatyou guys are seeing. His final few posts were concise, to the point, and didn't sound like he was regretting the decision to D.

To me, he seems like the kind of guy that if he had stayed, he'd mentally torture himself for months obsessing over her A before he finally pulled the D trigger. 

And temporary insanity? Why? Just bc she's female? You guys ever notice mental health is only ever brought into infidelity discussions when the cheater is female? 

"OM was very old. She must have been temporarily insane. "

But the other way around? 

"OW was very old. He must have been getting money from her" 

How about this one?

"She cheated 27 times with 12 different ppl in a 2 year period. But she was manic and suffering from ppd, its not her fault. Her H should give her another chance now that he knows she needs medical help and just couldn't help it. "

But the other way around? 

"He cheated with 8 different ppl over 14 months. He's a serial cheater who only thinks with his penis. I hope she takes him to the cleaners."

SS's wife would've cheated with the first person that pushed all the right buttons.


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## Marc878

Edmund said:


> I agree 100%. If it was me I would have taken her back. Having an affair with someone 30 years older is a case of temporary insanity. It wouldn't be the same but could maybe they could have rebuilt their relationship on a new foundation of love for their child. I hope he didn't commit suicide.


She did a great job of covering her affair to be insane. She carried it out with efficient deceit.

She knew exactly what she was doing. She just never thought she'd get caught. If he hadn't done some good detective work she'd never have admitted to a thing.

Just your typical self preservation


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## sa58

I think SS is probably doing well. I think he was probably 
hurting because of what his wife did,and she seemed to 
not care. He was also concerned about his daughter and 
how things would affect her. (Her social media postings ) 

He did not regret his divorce however because 
remember they had started sleeping together again and he 
still walked away. SS is very smart and successful and has 
a group of friends(support network) around him. I also think 
that in time he will see much better off he is without her.
After all she quit her job and ran home to daddy who if I
remember didn't really care.


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## BluesPower

sa58 said:


> I think SS is probably doing well. I think he was probably
> hurting because of what his wife did,and she seemed to
> not care. He was also concerned about his daughter and
> how things would affect her. (Her social media postings )
> 
> He did not regret his divorce however because
> remember they had started sleeping together again and he
> still walked away. SS is very smart and successful and has
> a group of friends(support network) around him. I also think
> that in time he will see much better off he is without her.
> After all she quit her job and ran home to daddy who if I
> remember didn't really care.


I really hope you are correct about all of this. 

For me, whether or not he went through with divorce is kind of immaterial. That is his choice, but I do wish that he would let us know what happened. 

Whatever happened and as hard as it was, I think he handled it correctly...


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## Gabriel

His last activity was 9/30/2018, so well after his last post, but awhile ago.


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## Edmund

GoldenR said:


> I guess I'm not seeing whatyou guys are seeing. His final few posts were concise, to the point, and didn't sound like he was regretting the decision to D.
> 
> To me, he seems like the kind of guy that if he had stayed, he'd mentally torture himself for months obsessing over her A before he finally pulled the D trigger.
> 
> And temporary insanity? Why? Just bc she's female? You guys ever notice mental health is only ever brought into infidelity discussions when the cheater is female?
> 
> "OM was very old. She must have been temporarily insane. "
> 
> But the other way around?
> 
> "OW was very old. He must have been getting money from her"
> 
> How about this one?
> 
> "She cheated 27 times with 12 different ppl in a 2 year period. But she was manic and suffering from ppd, its not her fault. Her H should give her another chance now that he knows she needs medical help and just couldn't help it. "
> 
> But the other way around?
> 
> "He cheated with 8 different ppl over 14 months. He's a serial cheater who only thinks with his penis. I hope she takes him to the cleaners."
> 
> SS's wife would've cheated with the first person that pushed all the right buttons.


Valid thoughts. I think however that Bobert’s thread has set a record for wife mental insanity that will never be topped.


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## Tatsuhiko

My guess is he stayed in a zombie marriage for the sake of his daughter, finances, and wife's mental health. I think it's tough to come back to TAM and admit that. I'm not sure what I'd do in his situation, TBH.


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## Tatsuhiko

duplicate post


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## skerzoid

As far as being afraid to come back if he chose to R, I wouldn't judge it differently than those who come back saying they wished they wouldn't have R. Hindsight is 20/20. If a poster chooses to stay for reasons such as children, etc., who are we to judge? The "woulda, coulda, shoulda" stuff doesn't necessarily help after the fact. TAM leans toward D generally. I would agree in many cases. It somehow feels more satisfying to see a poster show strength, courage, and decisive action when they immediately have the miscreant served with papers and to see the adulterer begging and snot nosed on their knees. Unfortunately, most cases are not so clear cut. Second guessing is fantasy.


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## Harken Banks

Scuba Steve, I read this thread with interest and was not going to comment until I saw your last posts. It is natural to be pissed off about the sh*tty, destructive, and selfish things people in your life have done and may continue to do. It is natural to get down and blue in moments of reflection on what was or what seemed to be and your seeming dashed hopes of what you wanted for your daughter and your family. Those are inevitable. I wallowed in that sh*t forever. Did not help me or anyone else. The mention of drinking struck me. That is natural too. It was for me anyway. It became one of the few things in my life I still enjoyed. It also was a way for me to say "F*ck it. I am going to do this because I can." And because it is a way to say f*ck you to people who pissed me off. It was a calm and comforting place when all my buttons were being pushed. And I loved it. I really like alcohol, always have. In that perfect storm, I soon came to a place where I was consuming lethal quantities daily with little effect noticed by all but a few close to me who saw the staggering quantity and the daily 1.5 litre whiskey bottles piling up in the recycling. At the moment, I am on indefinite hiatus. Mine may be an extreme, but nonetheless cautionary, tale. Use more caution than you think necessary with alcohol. While quite an enjoyable comfort and sometimes escape in the short run, if not governed, it can contribute to everything becoming worse. I am pretty happy now with not drinking. I have not ruled it out in the future. I would have done well to temper many years ago and redirect my life to looking forward, being present and engaged in my responsibilities and pursuits. I am doing those things now. Better late than never. But also better sooner rather than later. I received my share of the standard pablum. Well-intentioned, but not very useful to me. I do not like being told what to do or what I should do. So I received it with sincere appreciation, but not much interest. I had to make things really bad before I said enough. I gave myself more run than I recommend. I cannot say anything with certainty, I do not preach, and I am certainly not a role model, unless you are looking for Mr. Bad Example. I encourage you to take care of yourself and prioritize responsibilities. That is my current plan and so far I like it. My daughters did not need dad drunk all the time. I have always been very involved as a parent and coach and as a safe place to come, but for a long spell I was less truly present than I should have been. Less than they deserve and less than I want to be and not much to respect and look up to. I still get pissed off. I still get nostalgic for was and what I hoped would be. But I refocus on the tasks at hand and it passes. I dug a deep hole. Using alcohol to buffer against unpleasant things was a part of that. But it is OK. For now, I remain cognizant of the past but focus on what I am doing now. For a long time I felt that in the middle of what had been otherwise a pretty charmed life I was dealt a sh*tty hand. And I played it badly. Can’t really undo anything, just improve what is. Good luck, Scuba Steve.


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## Elniño

Following for similarities in my life


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## oldtruck

Elniño said:


> Following for similarities in my life


Nothing to follow this is a dead thread.


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