# Maintaning the Home with the Husband



## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Hello,

I am new to this forum and site, so please bear with me. 

Having lived with my Italian husband before getting married, I knew of his high threshhold for mess in the house. It is getting to a point now, where our arguments over household chores are overwhelming our relationship. I'm extremely resistant to starting a family under these conditions of keeping up with chores. I miss him. 

I would truly appreciate any insights to first, put me in check of my reactions to doing chores, and two, stories of anyone in a similar situation and where you are now in terms of resolving this. My family nor my friends are really in a place to helpfully sympathize with me, so thank you in advance.

My dear husband 
1. has a high tolerance for cleanliness, 
2. doesn't know what it entails and chores isn't part of his vocabulary, 
3. believes that cleaning up the house is "out of love" and that it shouldn't effect a person to clean for someone else. 

Recently, we got into an argument about cleaning up the table after we painted together. I asked "will you help me clean the table?" We started cleaning and after a while I told him "don't put the paper there, you'll get paint on the table!" Then I asked him to get the broom and we both cleaned until the job was done. Later I went back to sweep the floor after he had done it, because I could feel dirt under my feet.

We were both frustrated afterwards. He was offended at the way I asked and told him to clean, and I was angry that I even had to ask and that he didn't know how to clean. I was so upset, I couldn't think straight. I could barely appreciate that he had communicated how he felt. I thought "well that's a given." even though as a person I want to nurture the things he does well.

Maybe once every 3 weeks for 20 minutes we have a good time with cleaning the house. Granted, he is home 4 hours a day, tired, and sleepy. I work from home and have a long workday. 

Looking forward to your comments,
Remcatt


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## Time4Joy (Dec 13, 2012)

Hire a cleaning crew once a month. You'll spend less on it than on the divorce or marriage counseling.

Really lady. Lighten up. And if you criticize the way he does things, he'll just stop doing them. Men are like that. We don't like to do things that we'll get b!tched at for doing.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

If you both work, it should be 50/50.

If he works and you don't, 90/10 perhaps and the other way around.

If he has high standards, let him clean to meet those standards. 

There is NO perfection and it's impossible to keep EVERYTHING clean ALL the time.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

@Time4Joy 

Thanks for posting. 

Do you have strategies for 'lightening up' that you've seen work. I know I'm in the wrong. Its quite obvious. The reason I posted, as I said was to find new ways of coping.




Time4Joy said:


> Hire a cleaning crew once a month. You'll spend less on it than on the divorce or marriage counseling.
> 
> Really lady. Lighten up. And if you criticize the way he does things, he'll just stop doing them. Men are like that. We don't like to do things that we'll get b!tched at for doing.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

Here is how I see my marriage with the cleaning situation. My husband is like yours. He never does chores. And when he would do them, I couldn't believe how dirty stuff was after he does it. So here is how we have solved that. Anything that needs to be cleaned like dusting, vacuuming, wiping, washing...those are my jobs. Why? Because I know that I want it to be CLEAN, especially with my baby, and my husband is not really good at it. 

I started making him do the pick ups. Pick up stuff from the table...take stuff from the table to the kitchen...take out the trash..pick up the laundry baskets and carry them to the washer..just the general tidy up. Honestly, it's the best way we worked out how to do that. I do most of the cleaning because he works more than I do anyway, but it is nice to have the garbage out and the stuff in its proper place when I go to clean. 

Also, Time4Joy has a good point. Men HATE to be told that they are doing something wrong. If you know he won't do it up to your standards, do it yourself. Give him the jobs you know won't bother you. And btw, I know you work from home, but if your husband works outside the home and is gone for long hours, you should be able to pick up most of the chores during the day. Glad that you are waiting for children because all of this will just get more exhausting and complicated when you have one.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

committed4ever said:


> My H HATES housework and can't cook. Plus I don't like the way he cleans; its not thorough enough for me. So I cook, clean and do laundry. Originally I didn't care for yard work like mowing, edging, weed wacking, shoveling snow. I hate anything to do with cars including pumping gas. So H does all of that. I actually like yard work now for the exercise and getting extra vitamin D, but he still does it all for the most part unless he is doing extended work travel.


Many marriages (including mine) are like that. I still assist my wife with cleaning/laundry....and kids do their own as well as clean the house on regular basis.

Outdoor work is all me and the kids, same for cars or any house projects.

It has worked well over the years.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Thank you for this! 



committed4ever said:


> My H HATES housework and can't cook. Plus I don't like the way he cleans; its not thorough enough for me. So I cook, clean and do laundry. Originally I didn't care for yard work like mowing, edging, weed wacking, shoveling snow. I hate anything to do with cars including pumping gas. So H does all of that. I actually like yard work now for the exercise and getting extra vitamin D, but he still does it all for the most part unless he is doing extended work travel.
> 
> He works outside the home, I don't work at all. But I did all the cooking cleaning and laundry before I became a SAHM.
> 
> ...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

DoF;10061698
Outdoor work is all me and the kids said:


> I plan to grow a veggie garden next year when the babe is walking and can be out there with me.
> 
> House projects are my H's but since we are flipping houses now I want to know how to do them. H is teach me to do crown moulding in our guest bedroom, but I can tell he is not feeling the interference in his "domain". Don't quite know how to handle that.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Remcatt, you really really need to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs". It will totally explain it to you.

The Cliff Notes version is this: For many men, domestic organization (the book calls it "domestic support") is something they NEED from their wife. For whatever reason, it is real. He sees it as an act of your love when you take care of the house. He also has a need to not be in charge of the household domestic duties. That is, he finds it very difficult to be responsible for the cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc.

Now, he may be very happy if you delegate something to him, but he wants you to be responsible for the overall big picture. You can probably ask him to vacuum or to mop floors. You can ask him to scrub the shower. But he doesn't want to be in charge of figuring out when the floor needs mopping or the shower scrubbed!

One way I disagree with the book is that when you delegate to him you need to let go of criticizing him. Men hate being told every detail of how to do something and how we screwed it up! The book says you have the right to criticize how he does the chore you assigned him. I think the book is wrong there, and you have to be very careful in correcting him. Especially bad is you jumping in and taking over or re-doing what he did. I think most men want to do well and please their wife, so it is more productive to use positive feedback and let him feel pride.

So you can be in charge of the domestics, but you don't have to do all the chores yourself. You can hire a cleaning service to do all or some of it. You can make up a chore list and get his agreement to do certain chores at certain times. You can couch all this in terms of this being a difference in how you each prioritize the housework, neither one being right or wrong. It would help meet your needs in the relationship if he would agree to do X,Y, and Z regularly. Come up with a chore list. Give him lots of positive feedback. Give him a hug or kiss.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Housework does not come naturally to men but virtually any husband can be trained to keep the house.

I've known situations where the husband comes home from work and starts on the honey-do list as a form of relaxation.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

All I know is, the quickest way to get me to stop ever doing a task is to ask me to do it and then criticize the way I do it. It's actually quite nice. I haven't done laundry in 20 years.


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## Abovetheline (Aug 19, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> All I know is, the quickest way to get me to stop ever doing a task is to ask me to do it and then criticize the way I do it. It's actually quite nice. I haven't done laundry in 20 years.


I feel you on this 

My wife has complained I don't cook (always made sense to me because she stays home and I get home from work late). I acknowledged this and made an effort to cook from time to time so it wasn’t just her responsibility.

I actually don't mind to do it and would rather cook then clean up after dinner (my responsibility and always has been). Anyhow each time I would cook she would provide negative feedback and wasn’t really appreciative. Needless to say she does all the cooking now.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I think chores are important because in a relationship need to feel that things are being shared equally. It is the sense of unfairness, rather than the chores themselves that I think cause the problems.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Thor,

Interesting-sounding book. Thank you for the recommendation, but I personally disagree with the premise. I don't think being a responsible human being should be gendered. There aren't any tasks (household, financial, etc) that my husband does that I don't or aren't capable of doing. 

The book could just as easily be written by a woman, and say "For many women in the 21st century, domestic organization is something the NEED in a balanced way from their partner."

I'll still take a look at it online before I completely judge it though! so the thank you still holds!

Best, Remcatt



Thor said:


> Remcatt, you really really need to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs". It will totally explain it to you.
> 
> The Cliff Notes version is this: For many men, domestic organization (the book calls it "domestic support") is something they NEED from their wife. For whatever reason, it is real. He sees it as an act of your love when you take care of the house. He also has a need to not be in charge of the household domestic duties. That is, he finds it very difficult to be responsible for the cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc.
> 
> ...


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Yes, thank you. I understand the criticizing a favor I asked of my DH is not productive.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Lila said:


> DH and I both agree that 99% of the fights we had during our first year of marriage revolved around household chores and responsibilities.
> 
> I'm a neat freak and expected him to adopt my standards for cleanliness. He thought anything less than a three course meal cooked from scratch was garbage. Meanwhile we were both working long hours at the office to advance our careers.
> 
> ...


This is extremely helpful and constructive. 

Thank you for this message!


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> I think chores are important because in a relationship need to feel that things are being shared equally. It is the sense of unfairness, rather than the chores themselves that I think cause the problems.


You hit the nail on the head there. *Great* feedback thank you!


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> I think chores are important because in a relationship need to feel that things are being shared equally. It is the sense of unfairness, rather than the chores themselves that I think cause the problems.


You hit the nail on the head richardsharpe! *Great *comment! Thank you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, _His Needs, Her Needs _talks about the top 10 needs that most people have in relationships. It also says that, _in general_, men and women prioritize needs differently. It does not contend that women aren't allowed to have domestic support as a need, even a high-priority one. It does contend that many men have it as a higher-priority need than most women, on average. So, please don't dismiss the book out of hand. It may actually be really helpful. 

By the way, if husband and wife both number domestic support as a high-priority need, then it's suggested that they hire someone to help out with it, if they can afford to do so. 

Another tactic would be that each partner take the tasks they prefer to do, then divide up everything else based on who cares more about that task. For instance, if you like to cook then you take on the cooking. If he likes doing yard work, then that's his. If it really bothers you to have grit on the floor, then you do the sweeping. If he's particular about how the dusting should be done, then he dusts.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

I am familiar with an article titled _Negotiating Chores With Your Spouse_ that deals specifically with this issue, but it's on a Christian website. Here is a sample from it:

"One landmine to avoid is the 50-50 split. A 2012 study done in Norway found that couples who split housework evenly were also more likely to divorce. The problem isn't housework per se, but rather the dynamics of splitting it down the middle. Kurt Bruner, pastor and author, says, 'If you are keeping score on such things, you have already lost the relational battle.'" 

If you would like the rest please send me a private message and I will forward it on to you. Blessings!


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I love the comment Commited4ever made about not liking the way her husband cleans.... Sounds like me.....

My husband Love him, does not like housework, he will freely admit it, and hes no bloody good at it ( he think that is a good thing)... It means he does not have to do any:smthumbup:...

I on the other hand, Loves it when the house in cleaned, but to my standards...

I also agree totally what another poster said, about doing something then get moaned at because its not done the way their significant other likes the way hes done it...

My husband puts out the washing occasionally, when i go out its a complete mess, i cant really explain, but he puts the washing out all over the place. He just puts the pegs anywhere in the washing, and looks like someone has gone and tried to have a fight with it....

I say nothing, I just get to the washing first after hes put a wash in, so its me that can put it out.... The way he does it... the washing has wet patches.....

I also think nagging and moaning about mess helps nobody, I think its much easier just getting on with it...

I have a friend that used to moan and moan at her BF about picking up after him, when she stopped moaning she found that he just started doing more.... strange but true.....

I just find it pointless arguing whose doing what... I just get on with what needs to be done.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

Thank you, that does makes sense. 

This is a question to everyone, but what do you do when one person prefers to do 1 task, and the other is left with doing all the remaining tasks. I don't know if that's just how it has to be, or does the 1-task partner have to compromise? 

I'll be opening a new forum for this question! Please look out for it 



Rowan said:


> Another tactic would be that each partner take the tasks they prefer to do, then divide up everything else based on who cares more about that task.


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## remcatt (Aug 20, 2014)

THanks for commenting! 
What words/phrases do you literally say to yourself to help you move on with it? For example when your husband leaves the laundry to dry in this way.

My trouble is with a sense of unfairness and trying to let go of that. 



Rowan said:


> OP, _His Needs, Her Needs _talks about the top 10 needs that most people have in relationships. It also says that, _in general_, men and women prioritize needs differently. It does not contend that women aren't allowed to have domestic support as a need, even a high-priority one. It does contend that many men have it as a higher-priority need than most women, on average. So, please don't dismiss the book out of hand. It may actually be really helpful.
> 
> By the way, if husband and wife both number domestic support as a high-priority need, then it's suggested that they hire someone to help out with it, if they can afford to do so.
> 
> Another tactic would be that each partner take the tasks they prefer to do, then divide up everything else based on who cares more about that task. For instance, if you like to cook then you take on the cooking. If he likes doing yard work, then that's his. If it really bothers you to have grit on the floor, then you do the sweeping. If he's particular about how the dusting should be done, then he dusts.





melw74 said:


> I love the comment Commited4ever made about not liking the way her husband cleans.... Sounds like me.....
> 
> My husband Love him, does not like housework, he will freely admit it, and hes no bloody good at it ( he think that is a good thing)... It means he does not have to do any:smthumbup:...
> 
> ...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

remcatt said:


> THanks for commenting!
> What words/phrases do you literally say to yourself to help you move on with it? For example when your husband leaves the laundry to dry in this way.
> 
> My trouble is with a sense of unfairness and trying to let go of that.


Remcatt,

This is not so much in the chores area because we have come to an agreement with that, but when I am come head to head with my H's behavior that irritates me the most, I say the following to myself:

If he never stopped doing this, would I want to end the marriage.
Does this behavior negate his positives?
Is this behavior a deal breaker?
If I want to make this a boundary, could I reasonably expect to enforce it?

I also remember this: I have behavior(s) that irritate him too, mainly because I'm human and not without faults.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

remcatt said:


> Thor,
> 
> Interesting-sounding book. Thank you for the recommendation, but I personally disagree with the premise. I don't think being a responsible human being should be gendered. There aren't any tasks (household, financial, etc) that my husband does that I don't or aren't capable of doing.
> 
> ...


Many women have a need for the man to be the primary wage earner. Women tend to prefer to be able to stay home with the children at least for a while. Women tend to be unhappy if they have to go back to work immediately after child birth while the father stays home with the baby.

All these areas might be genetic, might be cultural, might be based on who knows what. The important part is that as adults we have formed some specific needs which are unlikely to change substantially. Most men have an aversion to being in charge of the domestic duties. Most men have a need for their wife to be in charge of this area.

So while you don't want to genderize characteristics it does not change the fact that in western society most men have similar needs and preferences, and women have different needs and preferences.

If your husband has a deeply programmed need for "Domestic Support" he will NEVER be happy being in charge of household chores. If you leave it up to him to determine when to vacuum floors or when to clean bathrooms he will probably be unhappy. And, you will probably be very unhappy with the level of cleanlinesss in the house because FOR YOU it is MORE IMPORTANT than it is for him.

Make up a chore list and solicit his agreement to take on some of them. You still be in charge. Set a schedule, e.g. vacuum the entire house every week. 

Recognize that he probably takes on a lot of tasks which he doesn't get credit for. Does he usually drive when you two go somewhere? Does he do the budget and keep the finances? How about lawn work, and getting the oil changed in the cars? Does he do the heavy lifting when furniture needs to be moved?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

remcatt said:


> Thor,
> 
> Interesting-sounding book. Thank you for the recommendation, but I personally disagree with the premise. I don't think being a responsible human being should be gendered. There aren't any tasks (household, financial, etc) that my husband does that I don't or aren't capable of doing.
> 
> ...


 I agree with you that being a responsible human should not gendered.

The book is written from the view point of the kinds of things that the author, in his many years of marriage couching experience, has been told by his many clients. It’s not written in a way to ascribe gender biased responsibilities. 

It basically list the top ten emotional needs of most people in marriage. It discusses that each person ranks these needs in their own unique order 1 to 10. And it discusses each need in a way that would help a person express their own needs.

I’m sure that you are quite capable of getting the point being made even when presented as something that normally one gender does, feels, etc. It’s hard to write a gender natural book about these sort of topics. But the ideas can be applied to fit whatever works in your marriage.

The book is a very good book. I highly recommend it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WolverineFan said:


> I am familiar with an article titled _Negotiating Chores With Your Spouse_ that deals specifically with this issue, but it's on a Christian website. Here is a sample from it:
> 
> "One landmine to avoid is the 50-50 split. A 2012 study done in Norway found that couples who split housework evenly were also more likely to divorce. The problem isn't housework per se, but rather the dynamics of splitting it down the middle. Kurt Bruner, pastor and author, says, 'If you are keeping score on such things, you have already lost the relational battle.'"
> 
> If you would like the rest please send me a private message and I will forward it on to you. Blessings!


What's important is not if the split is actually 50/50 or 10/90, but that both spouses are satisfied with the split. Perception is everything. That's why I like the book "His Needs, Her Needs", the real message of the book is to talk out everything and settle difference and find out what makes your spouse happy and how you can contribute to a happy marriage. But you have to know how your spouse perceives things in order to do this. Shoot a person has to know how they really feel about things and what their own needs really are.. most people have no clue. They only react to things when something seems to be not quite right.

I can tell you that an uneven split can lead to divorce as much as those weighing everything to ensure 50/50 split. For example my second husband decided unilaterally to leave all the bread winning, all the child rearing and all the house work to me.. 99.99%. I divorced him. Who needs that?


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

remcatt said:


> THanks for commenting!
> What words/phrases do you literally say to yourself to help you move on with it? For example when your husband leaves the laundry to dry in this way.
> 
> My trouble is with a sense of unfairness and trying to let go of that.


I say nothing, Hes trying to make things easier for me, and in his head hes doing a good job...

I just do it myself because i like the way i do things.... If i do it, then i cant moan at him for getting it wrong... I know that seems strange, but its the truth.

When i hoover i go in the corners, he leaves them, I hate that, so i do it because i know it gets done the way i like it....

However, sometimes i am tired out, and i am happy that he gets the hoover out and does it his way


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What's important is not if the split is actually 50/50 or 10/90, but that both spouses are satisfied with the split. Perception is everything. That's why I like the book "His Needs, Her Needs", the real message of the book is to talk out everything and settle difference and find out what makes your spouse happy and how you can contribute to a happy marriage.


Thanks for the comment. I agree 100% with that assessment. In fact, the article I quoted goes into that whole issue at a much deeper level. I love the book _His Needs, Her Needs_! Like many things in marriage, there needs to be open dialogue with give-and-take on both ends. The real problems arise when one or the other decides that they will not participate as a loving partner with genuine concern for the need of the other.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Perhaps worth adding - though you may well be aware of this - that Italian men are said to be spoilt rotten by their mothers, so your H may be having considerable difficulty coping with the idea that he has to do any housework at all.

I have come across other situations where an Italian man is said to have complained that the house was filthy, while making it clear that it was in no way his responsibility to do anything about.

Oh, and yes, where's my dinner when I come in?


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

remcatt said:


> @Time4Joy
> 
> Thanks for posting.
> 
> Do you have strategies for 'lightening up' that you've seen work. I know I'm in the wrong. Its quite obvious. The reason I posted, as I said was to find new ways of coping.


I don't think you are in the one thread at all. It's good to get female AND male views. That way you can see it from both sides.

One has to retrain the way they think of things. I once read, when one removes a negative way of thinking one has to replace it with a positive. For example, you asked your husband to help you with the table, he did. Leave it at that. He is NOT you. Be thankful he helped, purpose in your heart to thank him and praise him over the small things. You will probably find he will then be more motivated to help you even more!! I agree with Rowan, his love language might be "Acts of Service". 

Don't be hard on yourself we ALL have issues, the important thing is that you are humble enough to seek to change if need be.


and welcome to TAM


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Tell him you will play Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) on the stereo while he's doing chores


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## code20 (Feb 5, 2014)

If your husband doesn't know how to do something properly, but is willing to learn, you should patiently try to show him, and compliment him on how he did. If he is pretending to do it poorly just so he won't be asked again, thats passive agressive and a whole different kettle of fish.

Remember you were raised in different households with different value systems. What you might take for granted as common knowledge may just be a cultural assumption on your part. 

I remember when I first moved in with my husband the house was a mess. I didn't think it was my responsibility - it was his house. He didn't think it was his responsibility - I was the woman. He looked at me kind of angrily and said "the house is a mess". I looked back and nodded with sincere agreement and said enthusiastically, "It sure is!"
I had no idea he expected me to do it. What a shock.


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