# Trying not to be shallow. Please try to enlighten me?



## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

First, I want to thank everyone in this forum. You guys assisted me in my divorce phase. All advise, criticism etc, I really appreciate. You have no idea. I'm passed all that now, but won't lie - still have some residual memories or effect from it. Dunno.

Now, I'm 31 and really looking for a partner. I loved my ex, I found her really attractive etc etc. Relationship broke down for a number of reasons - distance, one of them.

Anyway, moving on now. I've met someone now, with the potential of being a wife. Before her, I haven't met anyone with the potential of being my partner. This girl is smart, good job, has all the traits of a good mother. Issue is, 

*first*: my shallowness. She's the opposite of what I would want in a woman, physically. It turns out, the women I find really attractive, are ones that look like my ex or better. Slim, tall etc. But this is wrong. And because I know it's wrong, I stayed with her, with the hope that she'll grow on me and I won't be able to live without thinking of her. Eventually, fall in love with her.
It's been over a year now, and this as not happened. I'm fond of her but not particularly crazy about her. When I query myself with a number of questions, I always end up with me saying, 'I better settle with her. I can't get with the woman I really want or like. And I should wake up to realise that, this is all I can get. 'If I leave her, I'm making a big mistake. As I'll regret it' etc.

It's been over a year now, and I want to come to a decision, don't want to waste people's time as it's unfair. I have been giving it a lot of thought to no avail. It's come to the point, that sometimes, she accuses me of not wanting to make live to her often enough. And it's true, I don't feel that way with her. the feeling I get when I want to devour a girl. I don't lust over her. I just see her as a partner, someone who I'm comfortable with. Someone who I'd do everything for. And someone, I'm hoping I will fall in love with. Since, I know that happens. The longer you are with someone, the more feelings you'd have.

Someone once said to me, i shouldn't be hard on myself. That what it means is that I have a type. But is this really my type or I'm just stupidly lusting over my ex or girls who look similar to my ex?

Once saw a girl in the shops that had the same build as her (ex.), and I could swear my heart skipped a beat. But was a ***** and didn't say hi. It's been over 4 months and I still think of her as, "if only..."

*secondly*, some of her behaviour. But, that's with everybody. No one is perfect. We argue a lot, but that doesn't bother me. it bothers her. She demands a lot and calls me up on it, when I haven't done as she wishes. Making me feel guilty etc.

Guys, am I just being childish and shallow or do I really have a type?
Listend to 



, and its like it said a lot to me. Which is what I'm trying to do. Let go of the idea that I have a type.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

I think the question whether you are "shallow", is irrelevant. You are what you are. If you're not going to be happy with this girl, then you shouldn't stay with her. It's not fair on either of you, and you'll only resent each other for it. If you don't want her and are going to be continually looking for someone "better", then you owe it to her to let her find somebody who will appreciate her. That's my thoughts. Good luck.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm not sad with her. I'm comfortable. I've closed all links with other girls to focus on her fully. Just not particularly attracted to her physically. But, I'm ignoring all that.

Also, scared and don't want to regret losing someone like her. All because I felt I could risk it to find that fairy-tale love or that idea of my woman. Based on the fact I had one before.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Physical, chemical, attraction is important in a romantic relationship. If you don't feel that kind of attraction for her, you're doing her a disservice by continuing the relationship. She deserves a man who is totally into her and you deserve a woman that you're actually into. You found a Miss Almost. Keep looking. Don't settle.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If I were her and you felt that way about me, I'd not want to marry you. I'd want a man who was completely into me. You are denying her that. You aren't being honest.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

there are a number of different things at play here. I will post a few things in no particular order. 

- at 31, you are at the top of your market value in the dating world. You have more options and opportunities than you likely did back when you were getting married the first time. Your chances of getting what you want in a woman may be better than what you think they are. You may not need to settle as much as you think you do. If you were to get out there and approach and pursue women you are attracted to, you may very well find one that has the other qualities you want as well. 

- At it's core, dating is about spending time with someone and getting to know them to see if they are the one that you want to marry and have a home and family with or not. A year of dating is adequate time to determine if someone is "The One" or not. If the answer is pointing to "not" then it really is best for everyone to dissolve the relationship compassionately and everyone move on so each can find the right one for them. 

- Unless you are looking for a live-in housekeeper and roommate to help with the household bills and are looking for someone to discuss politics and global economy with and to share your enjoyment of Nicholas Sparks movies with, then physical attraction and romantic and sexual chemistry is every bit as important as the other traits and characteristics and criteria on your list. Romance and sexuality are what makes our special someone special and what separates that relationship from all others. If that element is missing, then that person is just a friend, just a roommate, just a fishing buddy etc etc. 

If you are wanting a full-service marriage that has erotic love and romance and sexual energy, then physical attraction and sexual chemistry is just as important as any other trait. 

- If you marry someone with whom you have no sexual attraction, you will always be very vulnerable to falling for someone else who are attracted to and will be very vulnerable to having an affair(s) and/or leaving that person after several years of marriage when there will be minor children and a shared mortgage and shared property and cars etc. 

-You've chosen your words carefully and you danced around the topic well, but lets come right out and assume your GF is overweight. If she's overweight now while she is young, single, childless and dating - she will be downright obese after a number of years of marriage and childbearing etc. 

Her market value will plummet as she ages and bears children and gains weight. Your market value on the other will remain pretty steady for many years and may actually increase if you become more financially successful and remain in good physical shape. 

-This is an inconvenient truth but relationships cannot survive more than a 2 point disparity in market value on a 1-10 scale. 

What that means is that if you are currently a 6 and she is 5, her other traits and characteristics may be able to compensate for the spread. 

But if in a few years and a couple children later, she puts on 50 lbs and she is now a 3-4 and you get a promotion and have joined the gym and you are now a 7 or higher. You are going to have tall, slender, attractive women making themselves available to you. Some of them will see her and blatantly hit on you right in front of her. 

If she is fat and frumpy and someone else comes along that is your "type," you will find a reason and come up with excuses to take her up on it. 

- It sucks that this is how the world is.... but it is.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

Wow! Am I really gonna do this? end it with her? Thinking of it is actually making me emotional and scared at the same time. It's been 3 years and haven't met someone I like or a potential. Took me this long to find a Miss Almost that I'm getting used to.

Idea of jumping back on the likes of tinder etc - face the number of rejections. Having the thought that I'd probably walk this earth alone if I keep trying to find the person I'm attracted to. They having their own preference etc. 

Oh my...


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> there are a number of different things at play here. I will post a few things in no particular order.
> 
> - At it's core, dating is about spending time with someone and getting to know them to see if they are the one that you want to marry and have a home and family with or not. A year of dating is adequate time to determine if someone is "The One" or not. If the answer is pointing to "not" then it really is best for everyone to dissolve the relationship compassionately and everyone move on so each can find the right one for them.


Really appreciate you saying everything as it is. Speaking straight.

How about if the answer is 'I don't know'?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> If I were her and you felt that way about me, I'd not want to marry you. I'd want a man who was completely into me. You are denying her that. You aren't being honest.


And this is true as well. 

You may think you are being nice and magnanimous in considering her for a wife, but you are actually doing her a huge disservice and as Livvie said, you are denying her someone that would be into her completely. 

You would be taking another man's place because you share the same ideas on politics and like the same movies. 

You are thinking that physical attraction and sexual chemistry are 'shallow.' and taken by themselves, they are. However physical and sexual attraction are no less shallow than some of the other traits and criteria that you are thinking make a good mate. 

What makes a good mate is the aggregate score of all of their pros and cons. And physical/sexual attraction is no more and no less important than other traits. 

Unless you are simply wanting a good roommate to help share household expenses and housekeeping chores and want someone to talk with when you get home from work, then physical/sexual attraction is a critical component of a marriage and is just as important as any other trait. If that is missing, then that will be a void in the marriage that you will always be seeking to fill. 

And if you marry her, you will be denying her that component and will be imposing that void onto her as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> And if you marry her, you will be denying her that component and will be imposing that void onto her as well.


And also understand that she will be seeking to fill that void as well. In other words she will also be vulnerable to the attractions of others too. She will be wanting someone who is into her and will be vulnerable to someone who is into her and will be at risk of straying as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Plaster said:


> Really appreciate you saying everything as it is. Speaking straight.
> 
> How about if the answer is 'I don't know'?


When you are with the right person - you have no doubt. It is chrystal clear where you want to go and what you want to do. 

For two adults who have been dating steadily for a year, there really is no "I don't know."

There may be an "I-am-not-sure-how-to-end-this." And there may be a "I-don't-know-where-to-find-the-right-one." And there may even be a, "I-don't-want-to-face-the-truth-TODAY." But there is no "I don't know."

An 'I don't know,' after a year of dating for a 31 year old, previously married man is a "no."


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

People often marry when they aren't physically attracted to their spouse. It doesn't turn out well. That physical attraction can be the glue that holds you together (all other things being equal). Without it, you can be very vulnerable to having someone else come along -- and acting on it. Then you'll be back here.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Plaster said:


> Really appreciate you saying everything as it is. Speaking straight.
> 
> How about if the answer is 'I don't know'?


If, after a year, the answer is "I don't know" in conjunction with "I've been waiting to fall in love with her, but I haven't" and " I'm not physically attracted to her" the answer is a resounding "NO!".

It's cruel to stay with the wrong woman, depriving both of you, because you're afraid to be alone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Plaster said:


> Wow! Am I really gonna do this? end it with her? Thinking of it is actually making me emotional and scared at the same time. It's been 3 years and haven't met someone I like or a potential. Took me this long to find a Miss Almost that I'm getting used to.
> 
> Idea of jumping back on the likes of tinder etc - face the number of rejections. Having the thought that I'd probably walk this earth alone if I keep trying to find the person I'm attracted to. They having their own preference etc.
> 
> Oh my...


Let's talk about market value some more as I think this may be a stumbling block for you. 

A woman's market value skyrockets in her teens and peeks in her early-mid 20s. At that time she has everything from pubescent boys to dirty old men frothing at the mouth over her and hitting on her and everyone from men her own age and station in life to full adult men in their 30s, 40s and beyond wanting to get with her. 

A young women who isn't disfigured, deformed or morbidly obese has the whole world at her finger tips. 

A woman's market demand starts to drop off after mid 20s and drops off precipitously if she has children, gains weight etc etc. 

For a man, it often almost the opposite. Unless a teenaged boy is the star quarterback or unusually good looking or has some other rare talent like Justin Bieber or something, a man in his early 20s is often at his low point in market value. 

An average man's market value will often steadily rise from his mid 20s on up as he develops in his career and confidence and his social status. It is common for a man to be at the top of his game in his 30s and if he takes care of himself and continues to develop in his career and social status can even be highly desirable well into his 40s and even 50s. 

Successful men that are in shape and have good social standing and status can hook up, date and marry attractive women in their 20s even if they are in the 40s and even 50s. 

In your case, I have the feeling you married the first attractive woman that you hit it off with in your early 20s and then she cheated on you and you divorced.

Then when you started dipping your toes into the dating scene again, you started seeing Ms Comfortable because you felt safe with her and now you have reached this point of dull comfort but are wanting more out of life. 

I think you were probably not a skilled, confident dater to begin with since you married young and then took a big blow when you were cheated on and divorced. Your self esteem and confidence took a big hit and you settled for the safe, lesser attractive women with whom you felt safe and comfortable with even though she doesn't trip your trigger. 

I think your blindside here is you think your dating experience today will be like it was when you were single 10 years ago. 

This is a fallacy. Assuming you are educated and gainfully employed, you are much higher on the market scale today than you were in the days before your first marriage. It is an erroneous assumption that you will have the difficulties in attracting women that you had in your younger years. You are now an adult man and not a young, akward male coming out of his teen years. 

My challenge to you is to get out there on the dating market and take some risks and start approaching women that you find attractive and intriguing. Yes, there will always be some rejections. Even Brad Pitt and Zack Effron and Adam Levine have been rejected. It is a fact of life. 

However, you will also have successes and you will have people accept your offers as well. And the more you get out and date and the more you approach people and get to know them, the more your confidence and self esteem will develop. 

You don't have to settle. You just have to get out and spread your wings a little more.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Plaster said:


> I'm not sad with her. I'm comfortable. I've closed all links with other girls to focus on her fully. Just not particularly attracted to her physically. But, I'm ignoring all that.
> 
> Also, scared and don't want to regret losing someone like her. All because I felt I could risk it to find that fairy-tale love or that idea of my woman. Based on the fact I had one before.


I'm afraid things will not get better with time, you are forcing yourself because you are in a rush and think you cannot get someone else. I would suggest you move along. If you are not attracted now and find it tough going, how much more so when you have kids, bigger responsibilities, tougher days, etc. Marriage is tough enough, at least if there is attraction that helps a lot along the way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now all of this is assuming you are not unemployed/underemployed, obese, slovenly, unkempt, socially awkward etc etc

If you are un/underemployed, you need to be working on getting some marketable job training and finding gainful employment. 

If you are fat or pencil-thin, you need to get in the gym and get firmed up. 

There is no excuse for anyone to be slovenly or unkempt or unhygienic. Get some new, stylish, well fitting clothes, new haircut, teeth whitened etc. If you were glasses, at minimum get something in current style or get contacts/lasic etc. 

If you are socially awkward, work on developing your social skills and comfort in interacting on a personal level with people. 

In short, become the best you that you can be and present your best self forward. 

You issues here are not a lack of women in the world. There are over 3 billion of them and statistically they make up the majority of the Earth's population. The issue is your self esteem, self confidence and your knowledge of where you stand on the dating market. 

You are at your prime market value for finding a partner that you are attracted to and want to be with. You just have to get out and do the leg work.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

As much as it's hard to accept it. You hit a lot of nails on the head with your response. And I very much appreciate your wisdom here.

You are right, I don't think deep down I'm that confident. even if I carry the persona that I am. I have people saying so to me, that I'm chatty, out-going etc. Truth is, I'm not, deep down. I am not confident, primarily because I'm just not happy with myself.

At my age, I'm just starting in my career. When a number of my mates are well 7-8 years into theirs. I'm currently training with way younger people in their early 20's, when I should be elsewhere. I'm not where I should be in life, and it depresses me everyday. I'm generally not that happy. And this always manages to show in my face etc when people start asking questions about me.

This girl took me as I am. I told her everything - partly because when we first met, I didn't care much. But, think she saw that I'm improving and that I will improve.

Even my ex said to me when we broke up, that, nicer girls won't be into me. Except maybe foreigners etc. I laughed at the time, but deep with thought.

I am skinny, but started in the gym over a year ago now. I don't have a car - saving for one now. Don't have a place of my own. Only good thing is, I'm not in debt.

Even looking to travel, but can't afford it half the time.

Without making myself look like a sob story, I am not where I should be in life. Due to obstacles in my life at the time. Obstacles that I've recently overcome. Its just lately that I'm getting my life back on track.

So I think, people expect things of a guy my age. Things I can't provide or show yet. 

There's a trait the girl I'm seeing has, that tends to make me shake my head. When we go for a trip, my first plan is to book us at an affordable/budget hotels. But she expects more from me - rightly so. To book, 4-5 stars / known names hotels. If I wasn't at the place that I am, I won't worry about those. Things like these.

Or people I speak to expecting me to come pick them up for a date, but I get the cab or bus.

Like I said, I'm getting myself there. But, you are right. Not confident. Not happy, Self esteem is not that high, etc etc. Think you truly have gone deep to the root cause - maybe.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Plaster said:


> How about if the answer is 'I don't know'?


If you don't know after three years, she's not the one.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Plaster said:


> I'm not sad with her. I'm comfortable. I've closed all links with other girls to focus on her fully. Just not particularly attracted to her physically. But, I'm ignoring all that.
> 
> Also, scared and don't want to regret losing someone like her. All because I felt I could risk it to find that fairy-tale love or that idea of my woman. Based on the fact I had one before.


 To be with a woman who you dont really love is not going to work. She deserves someone who will love and desire her for who she is, not because she looks like your ex. 
Yes you may regret it, but that's the risk you need to take if you are seeking this slim tall lady.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Plaster said:


> We argue a lot, but that doesn't bother me. it bothers her. She demands a lot and calls me up on it, when I haven't done as she wishes. Making me feel guilty etc.


Was your ex like this?

Personally, I'd leave her for this alone. That's not love. As she wishes? Screw that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Plaster said:


> Wow! Am I really gonna do this? end it with her? Thinking of it is actually making me emotional and scared at the same time. It's been 3 years and haven't met someone I like or a potential. Took me this long to find a Miss Almost that I'm getting used to.
> 
> Idea of jumping back on the likes of tinder etc - face the number of rejections. Having the thought that I'd probably walk this earth alone if I keep trying to find the person I'm attracted to. They having their own preference etc.
> 
> Oh my...


Quite understandable. What I usually tell people is join lots of groups. A club for an activity you like to do, a class for something you'd like to learn, a sports team, a bowling group, whatever. This allows you to become friends with women while observing them to see if they're the kind of personality you like. That way, the woman isn't putting on a face to attract you, and you can dismiss the people who don't share the same values. Like if you see a woman treating a waiter poorly, you'll know never to ask her out. Best way to find a partner, IMO.

You also should be focusing on your work so you can climb that ladder. As a man, you still another decade or so to find a mate and still be perfectly desirable. So don't be in a hurry. And most importantly, find a good therapist and start going.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> Once saw a girl in the shops that had the same build as her (ex.), and I could swear my heart skipped a beat. But was a ***** and didn't say hi. It's been over 4 months and I still think of her as, "if only..."


I see a problem here. You saw a woman (not a girl, she was an adult right?) who are you are attracted to in a store, and she's a ***** because she did not say hi to you?

That's a pretty bad attitude on your part. She had not obligation or reason to say hi to you. She does not know you. I think this says something about where your head is at.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> I'm not sad with her. I'm comfortable. I've closed all links with other girls to focus on her fully. Just not particularly attracted to her physically. But, I'm ignoring all that.
> 
> Also, scared and don't want to regret losing someone like her. All because I felt I could risk it to find that fairy-tale love or that idea of my woman. Based on the fact I had one before.


You are not physically attracted to her. She already realizes this. You don't want much sex with her.

Do not stay with her or marry her. You two are incompatible. 

If you stay with her, you are making the choice to be with someone who are you are not physically attracted to. You are choosing to be with a woman you do not want much sex with. You know all of this.

On the other hand she is not aware of all this. She thinks you are attacked to her and love her, after all why would you be with her, right? It is unfair for you to selfishly keep this up because she fits the 'good wife' mold. It's so profoundly unfair that it's hard to even express. 

Let her go. Let her find a man who really loves her and connects with her sexually as well as in non-sexual ways.

If you think I'm wrong, then at least be 100% honest with her. Sit her down and tell her very clearly that you love that she's a great person and good wife material and one day will make a good mother. But you have no sexual attraction to her and don't want sex with her. Tell her that you lust after women who look like your ex and the depth of that lusting.

Be honest and let her decide if she is willing to settle for a husband how has no sexual attraction to her. That is what is kind and fair. If you don't do this, and you stay with her, you are just using her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Let's talk about market value some more as I think this may be a stumbling block for you.
> 
> A woman's market value skyrockets in her teens and peeks in her early-mid 20s. At that time she has everything from pubescent boys to dirty old men frothing at the mouth over her and hitting on her and everyone from men her own age and station in life to full adult men in their 30s, 40s and beyond wanting to get with her.
> 
> ...


Market value? Really? Please stop with the red pill and PUA talk here. 

Women are humans and do not lose value. Every woman I know who single in her 40', 50's and 60's is having no trouble finding men to go out with and even form long term relationships with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Actually it's very wrong to try to choose someone who you are not attracted to. This is a core necessity in relationships. It's what physical intimacy is built on. 

Just because she isn't your type doesn't mean she won't be someone else. So this is not shallowness it's just common sense. No one wants to be settled for. There are hundreds of thousands of women you have access to someone one out there will tick most of the boxes. 

She may not have the same hobbies as you that you can compromise on. The core ones are Character, chemistry and attraction. Need all 3.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I wouldn't want a man who wasn't attracted to me. Not for 1 day let alone years! 

I'm not tall or slim or all that attractive to be honest. I'm super plain and average. I've had 2 kids, Im out of that age range of desirable (apparently) 

I have a crap ton of options of guys who are attracted to me. I worried, women hear this crap and I worried when I left my ex. It's not even a little bit of an issue. 

People have different likes, a woman not attractive to one will be the dream girl for another. 

Screw ratings and market value. She doesn't need anyone to stay who doesn't think she's attractive. She can find someone who will and he can find his type.


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## ZedZ (Feb 6, 2017)

If I interpreting what you are saying... I would pass and start over...seems to me your broadcasting that you are "settling"

Wising you the best...


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I see a problem here. You saw a woman (not a girl, she was an adult right?) who are you are attracted to in a store, and she's a ***** because she did not say hi to you?
> 
> That's a pretty bad attitude on your part. She had not obligation or reason to say hi to you. She does not know you. I think this says something about where your head is at.


I think he was calling himself the *****.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You are not physically attracted to her. She already realizes this. You don't want much sex with her.
> 
> Do not stay with her or marry her. You two are incompatible.
> 
> ...


Mostly just want to pop in and reemphasize what EleGirl is saying here. 

It's not just poor self treatment to stay with someone you're not really into, it's also extremely cruel for that person as well. The way I see it, this cuts one of two ways.. Either:

This girl is really into you/in love with you. You're her "one," you'll be together forever, you'll start a homestead in rural Maine where you breed fainting goats, and when she imagines kids, see wonders how much they'll look or act like you. She pushes you because she loves you, and sees the pair of you as a team, improving a life you share together. She can tell you aren't intimate with her as often as she likes, and wonders what's wrong with her. Is she too fat? Too short? Too dumpy? Does she not pluck her eyebrows the right way? Is it her clothes? Does she talk too much, does she not talk enough? The lack of love she feels coming from you will continue to eat away at her, and she's so dedicated to you that she'll either destroy herself trying to be what you like, or she'll eventually get fed up and kick you to the curb. Then, she'll be the one struggling to build a whole new life from scratch and wondering how she got there. 

Or..

This girl is settling for you, too. She also thinks lowly of her own looks/appeal, and thinks that because she's not a "traditional 10" - hot, tall, blonde, skinny, tanned, exotic, feminine, boobs, butt, whatever - and doesn't think she'll ever find someone she really loves, who really loves her the same way. So, she's settling for the skinny late bloomer with divorce baggage and admitted self esteem problems. Maybe if she pushes hard enough, you'll get a good job, and she'll at least get the benefit of a stable home life and a few really fun vacations. Maybe she thinks it's ok to get some on the side, if you're not that into her, or convince you to start an open relationship you don't actually want. Maybe, if she thinks you might want to walk away, she'll tie you down with a kid, just to keep things stable. And that kid will grow up with parents who didn't even want each other, much less a child. Because she settled, because she was afraid of being alone, because she didn't think she could be good enough for anyone.

It's hard to tell if either of these is the exact case for you, but in either situation, is it fair for either of you?

I also agree with EleGirl's first comment: No one is obligated to say hello to you. Literally no one. Factors like "female" and "adult" and "attractive" don't even matter here. Your sentiment that she was somehow a ***** to you for not saying hello is... really gross. From this, you sound like one of those dudes that sends nasty and hateful messages to women over dating apps just because you're pissed off that they didn't respond to you. Grow up, man up, and say hello!

UNLESS from the context of your statement, you mean that you pussied out and didn't say hi. In which case, like. Strike all the hate and... Brah. Work on that. Flirt with everyone, start with people you aren't intimidated by, so when you find someone you want to pursue with, you can! (You should still stop stringing this other girl along, though.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dadstartingover said:


> I think he was calling himself the *****.


Hm... Since he used a phrase and not a sentence it's no clear. I took it one way. You took it another way.

I wonder why he would call himself, a man in a committed relationship, a ***** for not saying his to a woman he does not even know who he sees in a public place. I would think that a married man should be not saying things to women like that. Very strange either way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> UNLESS from the context of your statement, you mean that you pussied out and didn't say hi. In which case, like. Strike all the hate and... Brah. Work on that. Flirt with everyone, start with people you aren't intimidated by, so when you find someone you want to pursue with, you can! (You should still stop stringing this other girl along, though.)


I don't know. He's in a committed relationship. He should not be flirting with other women.

If he leaves his now gf, then sure, he can flirt all he wants.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I see a problem here. You saw a woman (not a girl, she was an adult right?) who are you are attracted to in a store, and she's a ***** because she did not say hi to you?
> 
> That's a pretty bad attitude on your part. She had not obligation or reason to say hi to you. She does not know you. I think this says something about where your head is at.


No. I meant I was a *****/chicken for not saying hi. I didn't have the courage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> No. I meant I was a *****/chicken for not saying hi. I didn't have the courage.


Was this when you in a committed relationship with your now gf?


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Was this when you in a committed relationship with your now gf?


With my now gf.

To be honest, it was like a movie. I had just been recently sent out of her (gf) house, because of an argument we had. At that moment, I said to myself, that's it. My exit. No one has ever told me to get out of their house. It was a real insult I thought. 

We hadn't spoken for days, then I saw this girl in the shops. It sounds stupid, but it was like GOD was closing one chapter in my love life and opening another. But was to chicken to start a conversation.

I could be very wrong, she could have said no (this is how I'm calming myself) or yes. I'll never know.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> Mostly just want to pop in and reemphasize what EleGirl is saying here.
> 
> This girl is settling for you, too. She also thinks lowly of her own looks/appeal, and thinks that because she's not a "traditional 10" - hot, tall, blonde, skinny, tanned, exotic, feminine, boobs, butt, whatever - and doesn't think she'll ever find someone she really loves, who really loves her the same way. So, she's settling for the skinny late bloomer with divorce baggage and admitted self esteem problems. Maybe if she pushes hard enough, you'll get a good job, and she'll at least get the benefit of a stable home life and a few really fun vacations. Maybe she thinks it's ok to get some on the side, if you're not that into her, or convince you to start an open relationship you don't actually want. Maybe, if she thinks you might want to walk away, she'll tie you down with a kid, just to keep things stable. And that kid will grow up with parents who didn't even want each other, much less a child. Because she settled, because she was afraid of being alone, because she didn't think she could be good enough for anyone.



She has stated this if I'm being honest.

She once said if it doesn't work with me, she's getting rid of some boxes from the list of boxes that needs to be ticked in her ideal man.

I just smiled, as I believed it. Even if a said it jokingly.




> UNLESS from the context of your statement, you mean that you pussied out and didn't say hi. In which case, like. Strike all the hate and... Brah. Work on that. Flirt with everyone, start with people you aren't intimidated by, so when you find someone you want to pursue with, you can! (You should still stop stringing this other girl along, though.)


This is what I meant. Why on earth will I call a woman names for not speaking to me bro? I'm not like that at all.

I was the *****, who didn't have the courage to find out.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Plaster said:


> She has stated this if I'm being honest.
> 
> She once said if it doesn't work with me, she's getting rid of some boxes from the list of boxes that needs to be ticked in her ideal man.
> 
> I just smiled, as I believed it. Even if a said it jokingly.


You mean to tell us she's spelled out her own distaste for you and herself, and you're cool being pressured/driven by a woman who has admitted she doesn't really love you either? It seems like you're sailing past a lot of red flags with this lady, with the idea that it's somehow safer to ignore them. I think this might be a bigger core issue for you than what TAM's advice can resolve. Perhaps it's time for a vision quest, or long solo escapist vacation, or a few rounds with a psychologist. 



Plaster said:


> This is what I meant. Why on earth will I call a woman names for not speaking to me bro? I'm not like that at all.
> 
> I was the *****, who didn't have the courage to find out.


Idk dude, some guys are just real ****s about that kind of thing! Having been on the receiving end of it myself. But, also, I'm really unlikely to pursue anyone who doesn't at least show some interest in me, even if that interest is just friendly.


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## Plaster (Feb 10, 2013)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> You mean to tell us she's spelled out her own distaste for you and herself, and you're cool being pressured/driven by a woman who has admitted she doesn't really love you either? It seems like you're sailing past a lot of red flags with this lady, with the idea that it's somehow safer to ignore them. I think this might be a bigger core issue for you than what TAM's advice can resolve. Perhaps it's time for a vision quest, or long solo escapist vacation, or a few rounds with a psychologist.


When you put it that way. I doubt that's the case.

There are a lot of tells that says otherwise. That she cares for me etc. She puts in a lot of work to make sure I'm happy. She has also expressed that she wants to start something together with me. I've been introduced to her family, friends. She's seen mine too. 

The day she made that statement, even though we were joking around. Don't think she meant it, she barks a lot but doesn't bite.

But then, this will be part of the things I'll bring up, when we do have THAT discussion. If she really likes me or she only wants to be with me because she feels she can't get any better.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

Ugh let her go before you both get stuck in a loveless or sexless marriage.

I married an underachiever who could only focus when it was for the woman he loved. He did all the right things, I taught him to dress impeccably for his frame and he climbed the ladder, high enough that VP is a year away. I pushed, gently, from the background but basically let him do anything he wanted. 

He was attracted to me, to my "exotic" beauty, but I was not his ideal type (Caucasian, thinner, shorter than me). So when family tragedy struck my life, and I didn't focus on him as much as he thought I should, he started connecting with people online, sharing those carefully curated outfits amongst other things and fell for someone else who could gas his ego with fervor. 

You aren't even attracted to her enough now to stay the course. Don't use her as your safety net. Even if she doesn't know everything, she may be ignoring those gut feelings that something isn't right to be with you too. That does not make a solid foundation.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Plaster said:


> I'm not sad with her. I'm comfortable. I've closed all links with other girls to focus on her fully. J*ust not particularly attracted to her physically. But, I'm ignoring all that.
> *
> Also, scared and don't want to regret losing someone like her. All because I felt I could risk it to find that fairy-tale love or that idea of my woman. Based on the fact I had one before.


Because of this, you need to let her go. This is a bad, bad thing to ignore, you are setting yourself up for failure. It would be MASSIVELY unfair to this woman for you to even continue a relationship, let alone get married.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> With my now gf.
> 
> To be honest, it was like a movie. I had just been recently sent out of her (gf) house, because of an argument we had. At that moment, I said to myself, that's it. My exit. No one has ever told me to get out of their house. It was a real insult I thought.
> 
> ...


She probably would have said no. Women are not looking for random men in public to pick them up. This is a fantasy of yours. It's a bit creepy too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> This is what I meant. Why on earth will I call a woman names for not speaking to me bro? I'm not like that at all.
> 
> I was the *****, who didn't have the courage to find out.


I now get that you were calling yourself a *****.

But to answer "Why on earth will I call a woman names for not speaking to me bro?" You'd be surprised how common it is for men to call women names who will not speak to them, random women they run into in public.

e.g. I'd walking thorough the mall (or down the street) and some guy approaches me and say "Hi there." I keep walking, He yells out at me "*****!" 

And that's probably why, since you left the subject out off, I thought you were calling her ***** and not yourself.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Please do not settle for this lady, get her out of there now, if you settle you will always be looking for your "type" and that is not fair on your partner, please think long and hard before settling, you will regret it if you accept what is in front of you. It seems that you are not happy with her any how's, making love to her is not fulfilling you ir her it seems, accept you are still a young man, do the right thing here for both your sake's.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plaster said:


> When you put it that way. I doubt that's the case.
> 
> There are a lot of tells that says otherwise. That she cares for me etc. She puts in a lot of work to make sure I'm happy. She has also expressed that she wants to start something together with me. I've been introduced to her family, friends. She's seen mine too.
> 
> ...


Don't you think you should find out if she really meant it? Seems like something that would lead to a discussion on the spot.

Yea, you need a long talk with this woman. Find out her stance. And tell her yours.

If she really meant what she said, at least she was honest with you, giving you the chance to decide what you want to do. You need to be just as honest about your feelings for her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Market value? Really? Please stop with the red pill and PUA talk here.
> 
> Women are humans and do not lose value. Every woman I know who single in her 40', 50's and 60's is having no trouble finding men to go out with and even form long term relationships with.


Absolutely true that they are finding dates, love relationships, marriage etc.

I attended my grandmother's second wedding when she was in her early 70s so I've seen firsthand in my own family that love has no expiration date.

I'm 53 and a 45 year old would be a young, hot babe to me :-D

But it's all relative. Absolutely a 40 year old mother of 3 will have opportunities. But it won't be with 20 or 30-something year old, never-married, no-kids, tall, handsome, muscular, executives with full heads of hair and six packs.

Those guys will be dating the single, no-kids, hard-bodied 20-something's. Perhaps even 21 year old 20-something's. 

Unless she's Demi Moore or Courtney Cox or something, our typical 40 year old mother of 3 will have plenty of opportunity of 40-60 year old, balding, pot bellied, divorced fathers and single middle aged man-boys, playa's and socially awkward 40 year old virgins. 

I'm a bald, somewhat pot bellied, 53 year old with 2 kids myself so it's ok for me to say that.

In essence, there is such a thing as leagues and if someone wants to play in a certain league, they have to BE in that league. 

The point of my post was to point out to Plaster that his standing on the dating market is different today than it was back when he was a young single man previously.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> If, after a year, the answer is "I don't know" in conjunction with "I've been waiting to fall in love with her, but I haven't" and " I'm not physically attracted to her" the answer is a resounding "NO!".
> 
> *It's cruel to stay with the wrong woman, depriving both of you, because you're afraid to be alone.*


*God knows that I'm scared crapless of being alone for the remainder of my life!

But I am even more frightened by the prospects of being paired up with yet another marital partner who would also not hesitate to cheat!*


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Leagues also assume that there are types that are more desirable to all. 

Taking compatibility out, which is a huge when it comes to attraction...

I would never, ever want a 6 pack abs gym guy. He's like a 2 for me if I wanted to rate him. Any guy with a 6 pack pic or a pic in the gym got an automatic no from me. 

And a younger man? Never. Why would I would want a 20-30 year old with no kids, never married? He's bottom of the list. I had some of these contact me while dating. No thanks. But doesn't seem like they are hard to find either. 

Give me an older guy, Dad bod with rough working hands. Yum. 10/10. 

Other ladies want the slim, office guy in a suit that looks all rich. Blah, not for me. Fancy car? Not unless you bought that baby as a shell and fixed it up yourself. That's a turn on. Other women like the fancy stuff. Watches and nice clothes. 
So how do you rate them? One woman's 10 is a 1 for me. 

Lots of men hate skinny and tall, their 10 is a chubby, short girl. Lots of men wouldn't want a younger girl in her 20s when he's 45. 

I had plenty of *good* options. Attractive men, no baggage, no drama, confident and mature guys btw. The market is really filled with many kinds of people. 


This league thing for women seem to be a way men use to feel better about themselves after a divorce. Like she won't get anyone better. All her options are gone. 
She can and she will if she wants to. There's tons of men out there wanting tons of different things. 

She can be 50, overweight and plain and there are men who will just adore and want her.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

I'd say date around. A lot. My take is you need a lot more experience. Meet a ton of people. Mingle. Go large.

Stop committing to the first tail you meet who says hello.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Hm... Since he used a phrase and not a sentence it's no clear. I took it one way. You took it another way.
> 
> I wonder why he would call himself, a man in a committed relationship, a ***** for not saying his to a woman he does not even know who he sees in a public place. I would think that a married man should be not saying things to women like that. Very strange either way.


One of the most common things I hear from men who have been cheated on is some variation of the phrase *"Do you know how many opportunities I had to cheat!?!?"* See, healthy men just have this ravenous sexual appetite. We supress that urge on a regular basis because of our love for our partner (and yet this urge still seeps out in the form of porn, masturbation, fantasies, etc). We feel that society should recognize us for this ultimate sacrifice. We want a pat on the back for rising above our ancient urge to fornicate with willing women. Seriously.

Same kinda thing going on here. He has desires and shallow male needs. Current partner doesn't fulfill them. "I COULDA FLIRTED WITH HOT CHICK BUT I DIDN'T!" He's looking for a pat on the back.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

dadstartingover said:


> One of the most common things I hear from men who have been cheated on is some variation of the phrase *"Do you know how many opportunities I had to cheat!?!?"* See, healthy men just have this ravenous sexual appetite. We supress that urge on a regular basis because of our love for our partner (and yet this urge still seeps out in the form of porn, masturbation, fantasies, etc). We feel that society should recognize us for this ultimate sacrifice. We want a pat on the back for rising above our ancient urge to fornicate with willing women. Seriously.
> 
> Same kinda thing going on here. He has desires and shallow male needs. Current partner doesn't fulfill them. "I COULDA FLIRTED WITH HOT CHICK BUT I DIDN'T!" He's looking for a pat on the back.


This reminds me of my ex-husband. After I found out he was a serial cheater, he still wanted accolades for not cheating on me as often as he could have. He basically wanted an 'atta boy' for all the times he could have cheated but didn't. As I explained to him, individuals sometimes get rewarded for being really great people, but grown folks generally don't get kudos for all the times they're not as terrible a human being as maybe they wanted to be. Being faithful 80-ish% of the time doesn't somehow make up for that 20% of the times you weren't. 

He actually tried to argue that 80% was still a "passing grade" and was thus better than he might have done.....:slap:


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Rowan said:


> This reminds me of my ex-husband. After I found out he was a serial cheater, he still wanted accolades for not cheating on me as often as he could have. He basically wanted an 'atta boy' for all the times he could have cheated but didn't. As I explained to him, individuals sometimes get rewarded for being really great people, but grown folks generally don't get kudos for all the times they're not as terrible a human being as maybe they wanted to be. Being faithful 80-ish% of the time doesn't somehow make up for that 20% of the times you weren't.
> 
> He actually tried to argue that 80% was still a "passing grade" and was thus better than he might have done.....:slap:


This might seem a little off topic from OP's original concerns, but I think it's safe to argue that OP is on his way to becoming either a resentful non-cheater, or a cheater. Not because he's a bad person or whatever, except that it's kind of a bad person thing to do to keep someone else in a relationship you don't actually want to be in.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why are you so desperate to BE with someone??

I don't think that most people - I would even say the vast majority of people - are not able to be truly happy WITH someone until they've figured out how to be truly happy WITHOUT someone. Have you done that? Or are you one of those people who can only see value in themselves when they are able to procure a mate?


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