# Am I the abuser or the abused?



## waiting-for-godot (Jan 11, 2014)

Hi all,

I am writing because I really have completely lost perspective with respect to my role in our marital abuse. 

In the interest of trying to be as unbiased as I can humanly be, I'll just retell the worst fight my wife and I have had in the last few years. 

One night my wife and I had a fight about something so trivial I've already forgotten what it was about. 

My wife and I were yelling at each other, but she started to get up in my face and personal space. 

I went to the bedroom and locked the door to get away from her (because leaving the home in the past has just made things even worse). 

Wife used a credit card to open the door and the fight continued, so I tried to go to the bathroom to get away. 

Wife stood in the doorway to stop me. I then tried to go to the living room but she blocked me again. I pushed past her this time and made my way to the couch where I pulled out my laptop and tried to ignore her. 

She approached me and continued to yell at me after five minutes or so. I yelled at her to get the hell away from me. She stood in front of me, silent, and would not leave. She continued to stand in front of me for some time and then closed my laptop. 

I opened my laptop again while yelling at her once more to leave me the hell alone and she pushed back against me to close my laptop. 

What follows I am not proud of. She was blocking my exit, again... I was physically trapped and would never hit my wife. But, feeling trapped, I grabbed my water bottle and pulled off the cap. I told her to get away while holding the bottle in a threatening manner. She did not get away. 

I soaked her with the water. She looked rather upset after I did this. The surprise in her face broke my heart. But I had little time to feel bad for her as she grabbed her soda glass and dumped it on me with my laptop in my lap. 

I was able to react fast enough to close the laptop before she had splashed the water on me and I stood up to grab the glass as she spilled the soda on me (this sent the empty glass flying in the air). I was soaked in freezing cold soda which got all over me and my laptop cover. She screamed at me to let her go, and I angrily pushed her to the ground before walking away. 

I am not proud of pushing her to the ground. Her physical intimidation is frequent, but also not unknown to me. She tells me that because I'm a large man she is nowhere near as intimidating nor 'scary' to me as I am to her. 

Three months have passed since then with no physical altercations. My wife has gotten in my face a few times since then, but not prevented me from walking away. I suspect that she is now a bit scared of me after the whole incident...

We've been married for 10 years, and we've been this low before. 

We both know that we have an abusive marriage, but my wife is telling me that I am the abusive one and I'm starting to wonder if she's right. I told her that if she had just left me alone in the bedroom it would have ended, but she says that any man who does something like that to a woman is an abuser. I feel like everyone has a breaking point, and when they're trapped they will eventually lose it... Am I wrong? Am I the main abuser here? 

I've read that abusive marriages can't really be fixed in marriage therapy. We're strongly considering a divorce, but we love each other very much. We decided on divorce a week ago and things have been better in many ways than ever before because we're not 'enmeshed' and are acting as friends, not husband and wife. I have read some of the materials promoted on these forums and believe myself to be codependent, but now I'm starting to wonder, what if I have BPD? Other situations have led people to say that my wife may have BPD, but what if it's actually me??


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

Leave the house next time. You need some serious distance like you should'nt be in the same house. If a fight happens and you hurt her, you go to jail unless you have it video taped. I would suggest you read more here and learn how to document these outbursts with video. So when the inevitable comes you have proof of what really happened. Shes provoking you and yes she is abusive.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi Godot,

Wow that is quite a story. Reading your post, it sounds like you are mutually abusive, however I read this post as her being more aggressive. She is bullying you and you are doing what someone who doesn't want to engage would do, you are leaving. She is not respecting the fact that you need space and do not want to engage in violent communication, but then you find yourself in a place of having no choice, or of such frustration that you react in a negative way. 

I'm not saying that you are acting "right" and she is not, simply that this is your pattern. I would say that she likely screams because she doesn't feel heard by you, but I'm just assuming. 

I think if you care about each other, that MC would help a lot. My H and I are so opposite of the spectrum, no violence whatsoever, to the point of no communication. But I think it's the same issue. You don't know how to talk to each other, and you make assumptions about what the other person is doing. 

If you are both open to counselling I'd try that first. All I can say is that for us, it has helped a lot. We still don't know if we'll stay together, but at least we are learning to communicate, and if you get divorced now chances are you'll walk into another similar relationship with a different person.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Gonnabealright said:


> Leave the house next time. You need some serious distance like you should'nt be in the same house. If a fight happens and you hurt her, you go to jail unless you have it video taped. I would suggest you read more here and learn how to document these outbursts with video. So when the inevitable comes you have proof of what really happened. Shes provoking you and yes she is abusive.


I agree. Just leave next time. You should probably hide a spare set of car keys just in case she grabs the ones you usually use.


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## waiting-for-godot (Jan 11, 2014)

Thank you all for your responses! 

Soccermom, it's like you know my wife, that's something she HAS done in the past! I've also been locked out of the home a few times and had things barricaded against it to keep me out... 

When we started our relationship I used to leave whenever things got too heated. She used to give me the freeze for days before eventually telling me that I had no right to leave her at the house wondering where I was and if I was dead in a ditch somewhere. I would only leave for 1-2 hours until I got bored and went home. I feel pretty confused and like nothing I do is right....


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't know what you want to call it, but it's horribly dysfunctional. On the other hand, you've got nothing to lose by trying marriage counselling and individual counselling. If nothing else, maybe it can help you in your next relationships.

C


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

WFG, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm sorry to hear you're having such serious problems in your marriage.


waiting-for-godot said:


> I'm starting to wonder, what if I have BPD?


None of us can answer that question. Only a professional can determine whether you "have BPD," i.e., have the full-blown disorder. I nonetheless can tell you two things. One is that you definitely will occasionally exhibit all nine of the BPD traits. All of us do. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means we all have all the behavioral traits to some degree.

The other thing I can say is that, although you cannot diagnose the disorder, you should be fully capable of spotting all strong occurrences of the BPD warning signs -- if you take time to learn what to look for -- because there is nothing subtle or nuanced about strong BPD symptoms. Another way of saying it is that you don't have to be able to diagnose a heart attack or breast cancer to be able to spot the symptoms.

At issue, then, is not whether you or your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course you do. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether you or your W exhibits these traits at a strong and persistent level. I cannot answer that question but I'm confident you can easily learn to spot any BPD red flags that exist.


> One night my wife and I had a fight about something so trivial I've already forgotten what it was about.


If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has most traits at a strong level), such events are to be expected. That is, most fights likely will be over issues so trivial that, a week later, neither of you will be able to recall what it was about. The reason is that, with a BPDer, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is always there. BPDers are filled with much anger and shame that they have been carrying inside since early childhood.

Another reason for the fights "over nothing" is that a BPDer has a very fragile sense of whom she is. To the extent she has any self image at all, it is the conviction that she is "The Victim." A BPDer therefore has a powerful need to frequently create drama -- i.e., creating arguments over practically nothing -- so as to keep "validating" her false self image of being the perpetual victim.


> Wife used a credit card to open the door and the fight continued, so I tried to go to the bathroom to get away.


My BPDer exW would do that too. At various points in our 15 year marriage -- usually every month or two -- she would throw a temper tantrum and then chase me from room to room. This occurs because BPDers usually have the emotional development of a four year old, leaving them fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These include, e.g., temper tantrums and projection. Because they never learned how to do self soothing or how to control their emotions, they urgently feel that the argument MUST be resolved AT THIS VERY MOMENT. If you leave the house, they will remain very distraught for several hours. The temper tantrums, for example, typically last 4 or 5 hours.


> I've read that abusive marriages can't really be fixed in marriage therapy.


Yes, that is my experience. Although MC can be very helpful in fixing simple communication problems, abuse is an issue that must be addressed in IC. Until that underlying issue is fixed, MC likely will be a waste of time.


> We've been married for 10 years, and we've been this low before.


BPDers typically do not show their BPD traits in the first 4 to 6 months of the r/s, because their infatuation over the partner holds their two fears at bay. The abuse therefore typically starts after about 6 months or right after the wedding. I therefore ask when your W's verbal abuse started? How often did she throw temper tantrums during the ten years?


> We both know that we have an abusive marriage.


I agree that the behaviors you describe for your W -- e.g., the temper tantrums, verbal abuse, impulsiveness, controlling, and icy withdrawal -- are some of the classic traits of BPD. Yet, if your W really does have most BPD traits at a strong level, you likely are seeing some other red flags as well. I therefore suggest you look at the following list to see if most of the 18 warning signs sound very familiar:


1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
7. Low self esteem;
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.



> Other situations have led people to say that my wife may have BPD, but what if it's actually me??


The best way to find out, of course, is to see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also suggest that, if most of the 18 warning signs sound very familiar, you read my more detailed description of them in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. In that case, it would be helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 red flags are exhibited most strongly by your W. Finally, as to the people saying your W may have BPD, were any of them therapists? Take care, WFG.


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## waiting-for-godot (Jan 11, 2014)

Uptown, thank you so much for your response. I have ready many of your threads in the time that I've lurked and am more than pleased to have a response directly from you. I have long suspected that my wife has BPD. My mother has it I'm sure. My mother's counselor told her that her mother had it. So, I started to wonder if all women end up getting labeled with the BPD thing. Both my mom and dad have said that I married my mother... My wife pretty much hates my mom, and my mom tries to get along with her, but I'm sure doesn't like my wife much either. I've read that women with BPD usually don't get along at all, is this true?

If my wife has BPD, then I really need counseling to resolve my own co-dependence issues because I never want to go through this again!

Today, I set up a time for us to do marital counseling. When I got back from work and spoke with my wife, she told me that she had spoken with a counselor on her own and made her decision which is to divorce me. I told her about the marital counseling, but her mind was made up and I'm honestly a bit relieved (except for the divorce part, the financial implications, and having to move out).

I think her decision to see the counselor today had everything to do with a brief 'scuffle' we had last night. 

I got home from volunteering at a shelter and went to see how she was doing. She had worked long hours and said she was okay. She asked about my volunteering, and I told her. She seemed disinterested, so I took the cue and left to do my own thing. 

I made myself something to eat. When I sat down to eat, she became upset and said to me "other husbands would be good enough to make their wife something to eat after a long day at work." 

Now, I had spent my entire day off programming for a project at work... Then I went and volunteered. My wife works hard, yes, but she never makes me anything out of kindness or spontaneity. When I was in the relationship (up to a week ago) I used to make her tea, snacks, and even dinner without expecting anything in return. She never did any of that for me, but has the audacity to basically call me a bad husband. 

As I'm recovering from this relationship and seeing myself out the door I'm seeing the insanity exactly as it is from the perspective of an outside observer.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

waiting-for-godot said:


> I made myself something to eat. When I sat down to eat, she became upset and said to me "other husbands would be good enough to make their wife something to eat after a long day at work."


 I would have told her to go find the "other husband" and he'll fix you something to eat after you get in his face and try your best to provoke a knock down fight."

Dude, your going to find yourself cuffed and sitting in the back of a cop car on the way to jail if this continues.

She wants a divorce. Good idea for both of you. It's going to get worse because every time you guys lock horns you don't realize it at the time but the fight escalates a bit more and someday it may come to blows............then you got a heap of trouble.

Let her file. Let her go. This has disaster written all over it.


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## waiting-for-godot (Jan 11, 2014)

Uptown said:


> 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
> 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
> 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
> 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
> ...


1. Yes, her brother does this too.
2. Yes, but I do that on occasion as well.
3. She is insanely jealous. I can't ever TALK to a woman. She once got angry at me for talking my way out of a parking ticket with a female police officer!!!
4. Totally. For Christmas I got a tree as she requested, did all of our laundry (I'm the only one who ever does BOTH of our laundry), and cleaned up the house. I didn't get a thank you. That's just the latest example of hundreds. She will say thank you, but typically only when it's obvious that she should like after receiving a gift. 
5. Yeah, I once had a theory that if she liked me in the morning she'd hate me by the evening and vice versa. Sometimes she is just nasty all day, and other times she's pleasant for days. 
6. I can't remember most of our fights, though she typically does. In fact, deep into an argument I'll be on the defensive and she'll shoot me down with "do you even know what you're fighting about?" I'll say no. She'll get angrier and accuse me of not caring enough to pay attention to what I did wrong or her feelings. 
7. She may have low self-esteem, but I can't really tell. She is a beautiful woman, everyone compliments her on that and I have to chase off guys all the time when they don't know I'm her husband. I know that this doesn't translate to good self-esteem, and may somethings undermine it, but she is nowhere beyond the normal range of human shyness from my perspective.
8. Yes. She typically is verbally abusive first. I have shamefully said hurtful things before, though not out of nowhere. I usually have to be pushed pretty far before I come out with an insult. My wife calls me stupid, idiot, jerk, *******, and bastard and is almost always the first to use such harsh personal insults. 
9. Yes and no. When she is busy or stressed about work she doesn't care if I'm around much. When we have free time I'm expected to be available and there for her. 
10. She has to be the victim at all costs. When we fight, if she is clearly not the victim, she will do whatever it takes to get a rise out of me (this is how the fight got to the point of me going into the bedroom in my first post) and make me do or say something which allows her to be the bigger victim. Her sister is like this as well. In fact, she and her sister once had a competition to see who could be the bigger victim which I stupidly placed myself in the middle of and got to see how her whole family works...
11. No, she is very cool and calculated. In fact, she does not speed, and she is the exact opposite of reckless outside of our relationship. She has 0 addictions, and is great with finances. 
12. She didn't have any serious previous boyfriends, though she told me when we were first together that she had never loved anyone like she did me. It hurts to remember those times...
13. Yes and no. I don't feel like she was trying to deceive me as much as I was willing to deceive myself. I really wanted her to be something she was not in many ways. She did try during the course of our marriage, and I do regret making her feel guilty for not doing some of the things I valued. To my credit though, I did also try things that she valued and even ended up liking some of them more than she did. 
14. She is very goal oriented and driven. She does not waver much from her ambitions. She may occasionally lose heart, but only as much as I think any normal person does. 
15. Yes. No matter how stressed I am, she can never help me out. Even when I'm at my limit she stills sees it as my job to soothe her. This has led to some nasty fights. 
16. She has only a very small group of very close friends. She doesn't really have enough free time to make any others, and has maintained two or three friendships since childhood. 
17. No, she is her own person. She is rather timid / shy / quiet and generally doesn't say a whole lot to people. She is approachable enough and friendly enough to have a conversation with, and like I said before, she is beautiful, but she will never act like the life-of-the-party just because she's hanging out with the life-of-the-party. 
18. Definitely, but I kind of have the impression that this is the case for women in general. I don't mean that as an insult, I guess I mean that women tend to live through their senses and emotions more than men. As a man I put little trust in my feelings and tend to be pragmatic. I have always understood this to be a big reason men and women often struggle to communicate.


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## waiting-for-godot (Jan 11, 2014)

6301 said:


> I would have told her to go find the "other husband" and he'll fix you something to eat after you get in his face and try your best to provoke a knock down fight."
> 
> Dude, your going to find yourself cuffed and sitting in the back of a cop car on the way to jail if this continues.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think it's the best course of action. The last thing I need is to have the cops called again. I did get a DV charge from this relationship four years ago but it was dismissed. That's another story entirely and I learned my lesson with regard to how the police treat the husband in cases of domestic violence. I called the police when I was assaulted but was treated like the perp from the moment they arrived. They listened to both of our stories, then asked my wife where she was bruised. She said that she wasn't and asked them not to do anything and just pretend that I hadn't called them. Instead they insisted that they had to charge someone so they needed evidence. They asked her to lift her pants to look at her shins, and if they could see her arms and back to find bruises... She of course had none because I've never hit my wife! She had attacked me though and threatened with calling the police so I called her bluff and called them myself. 

The charges were ultimately dropped because she refused to testify against me and, well, there was absolutely no physical evidence that I had assaulted her. We separated for over a year. When we got back together things were great for a few months and here we are, three years later. It's definitely time to end it. I feel like an idiot for allowing myself to stay in such a crazy relationship. I kept thinking though that I'll never find another woman with her good qualities. I guess that's part of the addiction...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

waiting-for-godot said:


> I've read that women with BPD usually don't get along at all, is this true?


No, not to my knowledge. Granted, low functioning BPDers have such distorted views of other peoples' intentions that they can have difficulty getting along with _anyone_, women or men. The vast majority of BPDers, however, are high functioning -- which means they typically interact well with everyone except their close friends and loved ones. As long as you are simply a casual friend, business associate, or total stranger, you pose no threat to the BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment). My exW, for example, got along very well with both men and women -- until they made the big mistake of trying to get close to her in a LTR.


> If my wife has BPD, then I really need counseling to resolve my own co-dependence issues because I never want to go through this again!


If you've been living with a BPDer for 10 years, then you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me. That is, your desire to be needed (for what you can do) likely far exceeds your desire to be loved (for the man you already are). 

I hesitate to call this "codependence" only because, with codependence being omitted from the DSM (because it is not considered to be a personality disorder), there is no uniform accepted definition of it. Moreover, in a world where national security relies heavily on the willingness of young people to sacrifice themselves -- and where most religions tout self sacrifice as the only sure path to heaven -- I doubt you will see the psychiatric community adding "codependence" to the DSM anytime soon.

It is telling that the world's largest association devoted to codependents -- CoDA -- doesn't even attempt to define it on their website. Instead, CoDA simply provides a grocery list of more than 50 traits, which is about what the DSM lists for all ten personality disorder combined. One of the most objectionable traits listed, IMO, is the notion that codependents are very controlling. This is why I favor the term, "excessive caregiver."


> Today, I set up a time for us to do marital counseling. When I got back from work and spoke with my wife, she told me that she had spoken with a counselor on her own and made her decision which is to divorce me.


As I said, my experience is that MC is a total waste of time when one partner has strong BPD traits. Hence, given that your W has no interest in seeking long-term IC to address her issues, you likely are fortunate she backed out of the MC idea if you are correct about her having strong BPD traits.


> When I sat down to eat, she became upset and said to me "other husbands would be good enough to make their wife something to eat after a long day at work." ...She never did any of that for me, but has the audacity to basically call me a bad husband.


Yes, but why would that behavior surprise you? If she has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old. Anyone whose emotional development is at that level will fully accept intense feelings as irrefutable facts. A BPDer does not intellectually challenge those feelings. 

The intense feelings distort her judgment and perception of you -- the very same way that they do for the rest of us when we get very angry or infatuated. By the time we are in high school, we "Nons" (nonBPDers) already know that our judgment goes out the window whenever we experience intense feelings.


> As I'm recovering from this relationship and seeing myself out the door I'm seeing the insanity exactly as it is from the perspective of an outside observer.


WFG, I'm glad to hear that the fog is lifting now that you have stepped outside the r/s. Strictly speaking, however, you are not really seeing "insanity" in your W because, like "psychosis," it would require that she lose touch with _physical_ reality (e.g., believing that the newscaster is speaking to her personally). BPDers typically see physical reality just fine. But, yes, I see your point. It certainly can _feel_ like you're seeing insanity.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

waiting-for-godot said:


> I kept thinking though that I'll never find another woman with her good qualities. I guess that's part of the addiction...


 It doesn't matter how many good qualities she has and as long as she has this one huge fault, the good ones are useless.

You got real lucky the last time but like everything else, we all run out of luck at some point in life. Your in a no win situation with this kind of behavior so get out of it ASAP.

If she wants a R, just think about the last time there was one and see where it got you. Just move on and get away from her. You do not want the label of abuser hanging around your neck.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

waiting-for-godot said:


> Yeah, I think it's the best course of action. The last thing I need is to have the cops called again.


WFG, I agree with 6301 that, if you decide to reconcile with your W, you will be at great risk of being arrested by the police. If your W has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she seeks frequent "validation" of her false self image of being "The Victim" (as you acknowledge in your response to my list of 18 traits). 

Significantly, the gold standard for proving one's victim status is having the H arrested for "brutalizing" the W. Doing so is the closest one can get to having the equivalent of a Harvard PhD in victimhood. It therefore is very common for BPDer wives to have their husbands thrown into jail on a bogus charge and -- as you already know -- the police usually are all too willing to believe them.

That is exactly what my BPDer exW did to me at the end of our 15 year marriage. During one of her rages, she was chasing me from room to room until I took refuge in my bedroom, where she proceeded open the door repeatedly and slam it against the wall. On the fourth occurrence, I stepped forward and pushed her away from the door, at which time she tripped when stepping backward and fell to the floor. 

That's all it took for me to be thrown into jail for three days -- never mind that my exW's sister and our grand daughter were sitting less than 20 feet from the spot at which I supposedly "brutalized" my exW. I was in jail for 3 days because, being arrested early on a Saturday morning, my first opportunity to be arraigned before a judge and released was late on Monday afternoon.

On the way to jail, one of the cops told me that -- whenever there is any doubt as to which party in the DV dispute is to blame -- the standard policy is to arrest the party who DID NOT place the 9-1-1 call. He therefore advised me that, if this ever happened again, I should try to beat her to the phone and call it in myself. But there wasn't a "next time" because my exW obtained a R/O banning me from returning to my own home for the next 18 months (the time it takes to obtain a D in this state).


> She may have low self-esteem, but I can't really tell. She is a beautiful woman.


If she exhibits strong irrational jealousy and always believe she is "The Victim" -- as you describe -- it seems very likely she has low self esteem. The jealousy (i.e., abandonment fear) likely arise from her fear that, when you discover how empty she is on the inside, you will leave her. If she does have these fears, they likely arose before age 5 -- long before she developed her physical beauty. Hence, by the time she was beautiful, she would have had many years in which to develop that fear.


> Women tend to live through their senses and emotions more than men.


Perhaps so. Yet, if your W has strong BPD traits, her reliance on her feelings would go FAR beyond any differences you normally would see between men and women. Because a BPDer has great difficulty controlling her emotions when her two fears are triggered, she will experience feelings so intense that they strongly distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. Moreover, she will regard those intense feelings -- in the same way that a young child does -- as accurate reflections of reality. That is, a BPDer does not intellectually challenge those intense feelings but, rather, accepts them as irrefutable "facts." This is why, on any sensitive issues, it is typically impossible to have a rational discussion with the BPDer.

Importantly, of the nine defining traits for BPD, the one most critical and essential is the inability to regulate one's own emotions, which results in emotional instability. Indeed, of the ten PDs listed in the DSM, the only one for which emotional instability is a defining trait is BPD.


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## lindabehonest (Jan 18, 2014)

6301 said:


> I would have told her to go find the "other husband" and he'll fix you something to eat after you get in his face and try your best to provoke a knock down fight."
> 
> Dude, your going to find yourself cuffed and sitting in the back of a cop car on the way to jail if this continues.
> 
> ...


Oh God that my husband,I,v e only been with him 7 yrs.


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## lindabehonest (Jan 18, 2014)

It was just 17 days ago I had to get out,after he tried to have me comented he says I am to dumb to live,the things he did were terrible ,anyway I found out he,s all ready on a dating site says he lives some where diff then he does, says he leagally separated and the pics he posted I took of him .what a slap in the face.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

waiting-for-godot,

I can easily relate to your situation. Uptown is also familiar with my story. Sounds like you're a software guy too. Gotta love what these horrible situations do to our work! I'm afraid after 12 years of being in a relationship with a personality disordered girl and finally divorcing her a few months ago, I have lost all my creativity, motivation and concentration. 

Your wife sounds like the typical abusive cluster B, while you sound like the typical codependent rescuer. You're both abusive, but I've found that in the absence of the disordered ex-wife, my abusive tendencies have somehow gone away. I'm in a new relationship and constantly monitoring my own behavior or asking my new partner for feedback. No sign of abuse (emotional or physical) so far. It's still too early to tell, but I'm starting to be hopeful about myself.

Like you, I too got into extreme altercations with my ex-wife. I rarely, if ever, initiated any of them, but did respond in kind when she was being abusive. I think I was blindly copying my own father's behavior, but didn't really feel right when I did. In the past couple of years, after doing some serious research, TAM reading and some therapy, I got a fairly good grip on my behavior and managed to become more of an 'observer'. My wife's craziness did not stop. It became different. 

My story is a long, sad, entertaining and fairly famous thread documented in the private section of this forum. If you rack up 30 posts, you will be able to see it. You'll appreciate the similarities and perhaps gain some insight into what the future may hold for your marriage. 

You're in for quite a ride. It will get a lot worse before it gets better. When it does get better, you'll begin to wonder why you wasted so many precious years on such a futile relationship. 

I wish you lots of patience my friend. You'll need it.

I almost forgot:

Spend lots of time on this website: bpdfamily.com 

Go directly to the message board and study the workshops. It may very well save your life, like it did mine.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

synthetic said:


> My story is a long, sad, entertaining....


WFG, it would be more accurate to say that Synth articulately tells a wonderful story in what is one of TAM's most insightful threads. His thread already spans 20 months, includes over 2,100 replies, and has attracted over 38,000 views. If you want to take a look at it when you're eligible to see the private section, you will find Synth's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/43925-i-should-just-divorce-her.html.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I think she's at fault but I have little doubt that in court she could put on a big show about how big you are and how scared she was, get a restraining order and possibly prevent you from seeing your kids. You need to get out when this occurs and possibly tape events, because she has the capacity to start these confrontations and then blame you.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

OP... your wife is abusive and you severely lack proper coping skills. Your situation is toxic, and your wife is controlling, condescending, and manipulative. Abusers go though a cycle of violence, and until you get off the ferris wheel you will always be its victim. Right now you are allowing her to manipulate you and then play the victim card. That is BS!

I don't condone your actions against her whatsoever either, but I understand them. My exH was severely abusive - choking me until i passed out, threatened to kill me, etc., so I'm more familiar with this than I wish.... You need to get away from her before she gets you in a serious mess of trouble.


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