# Help...major doubts about my marriage



## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm pretty nervous because I've never really seeked relationship/marriage advice, but I've reached a point where I need to turn to someone for advice. I have been suffering from major doubt about my marriage and I'm not sure what to do. Any advice/suggestions would be SO APPRECIATED!

Here is the background. I am a 26 year old (my wife is 24) and we've been married for just over 2 years. My wife and I met about 6 years ago, started dating soon after and got married about 4 years after we met. Our relationship was good, and we both love each other, but it was never perfect. I've had some doubts almost since the beginning, but always overlooked them. I had doubts on if she was the one and so on. Those doubts I think have affected my expression of affection, which is where her doubts have come from. While we do love each other, we've lived together since the first year we dated. Based on that and how we've both been so dependent on each other, i think that is a major reason why we never broke up. It sounds like a messed up relationship, but it's been good 95% of the time and it was strong enough to make it to marriage.

We are now two yeras into our marriage, and it hasn't been without issues. The affection issues my wife has with me (likely due to some doubts I've tried to ignore) have been the cause of some major doubts. Twice, my wife has seriously brought up seperation or even divorce, but it cooled down a day or two later with nothing major happening. Things have been better lately because I've been very concenous about how I act towards her and want to ensure she is happy. I know my wife is madly in love with me and I really do want her to be happy.

My major issue is that the doubts I've always had but ignored are roaring back in a big way. Lately, I've been feeling sick in my stomach about things. I wonder why didn't I take my doubts seriously before. Is she really the one? Am I truly in love? Did I marry her because it was the easy decision rather than hurting her at that time and so on. To add fuel to fire, I find myself happier when I am alone and I feel jelous of couples I see that seem to be truly in love (real ones or even fake ones on TV). I try to hide these feelings but they wont go away. It keeps me up at night and I know its affecting my actions towards my wife, including our intamicy, and my wife has expressed concerns. 

At this point, I just dont' know what to do. I feel like my doubts get worse by the day. I do love my wife, but I don't know if I am "in love". If this is how I feel 2 years in, what is it going to be like after 10 or 20 years? To make matters worse, I know my wife is madly in love and if I pushed for us to split up, she would be devestated. I get scared about what it would do to her. We're also in a situation where she is the single income earner (i'm in school again), but I don't want to stay with someone just for an issue like that. That is selfish.

I guess now it time for the advice. My thoughts are scattered so please feel free to ask for details if my comments make no sense. What on earth should I do? I used to be so against divorce, but I've been thinking a lot about it lately. Do I talk to her? I am pretty sure if this topic is discussed in detail, our relationship is over. I just don't know what to do. Are these doubts normal or is it a sign that we have a more serious problem than normal? I feel like an idiot because I have a wife who loves me so much and I know would never do anything to harm or hurt me, yet I feel all these doubts. I just don't know what do.

If anyone has any advice, I really would appreciate it. Thanks so much!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes these doubts are normal. I think you are putting way too much thought and stress into the matter. You have to remember how it was when you first met and couldn't stand to be away from one another. Everyday you should remind yourself of at least one thing about your wife that is positive and that you love. What are the affection issues?


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thank you so much for the response.

I guess you could say your post has brought up some additional things that adds to the doubts. To be honest we never really had that initial "can't bear to be apart" stage. I actually was fighting to end it at first because I wasn't really ready for a reltionship. After about six months, the feelings I had causing me to feel that way went away and we dated the remiaing 3 1/2 years before mariage without those issues. Still, when I look back at us dating, the doubts I have today existed, but on a smaller scale. I am not sure if I stayed with her because of love or because I was scared of causing pain/being alone. Either way, We stayed together and got married. Therefore, looking back at dating doesn't really help. 

In regards to affection, she tends to initiate everything except for small things like hugs (I typically initiate those). If my wife doesn't initiate us cuddling, kissing and so on, it typically doesn't happen. She has had serious issues with that lately and has even brought up that she thinks sometimes that I married her because I was scared of being alone or scared I couldn't get anyone else. When I think about it later on, I get scared because sometimes I think she is right.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

kd2005 said:


> Thank you so much for the response.
> 
> She has had serious issues with that lately and has even brought up that she thinks sometimes that I married her because I was scared of being alone or scared I couldn't get anyone else. When I think about it later on, I get scared because sometimes I think she is right.


I know that you are suffering and I am glad that you have finally sought some help.

Can you articulate your doubts?

You can compare your feelings against those of your wife, stating that she is 'wildly in love with you'

and yet she is the one (who wisely in my opinion) has suggested a separation when she began to feel unloved.

this is really serious stuff and you are playing with fire.

everyone has doubts but you need to explre what those are

if you think married just so you didn't hurt her you are kidding yourself bigtime.

you have to acknowledge what you get out of being in a relationship in which you don't feel committed.

because it's not about 'love' it's about how committed you are to working things out 

and not mentioning something because you think it will be the end is not working it out...

and you know that it is not fair on your wife.

I am glad that you are finding a way to start talking about this stuff.

I don't know what your 'answer' will be -

but I do know you can't get through life without hurting people.

your tale is one of avoidance - very dangerous in a marriage.

try and work with a counsellor to find out why you are avoiding acknowledging your feelings and why you would think that you married out of fear of being alone....

we all make mistakes - it's part of being human and feelings change - 

but these doubts (whatever they are) will kill you relationship in the end...

(sorry if I sound harsh but speak from very painful experience)


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

knortoh, thank you so much for your response. I don't think your words are harsh, in fact, honesty is what I want and need.

In terms of articulating my doubts, here is the best I can do:

-Did I marry for the right reasons? I'm trying to come to terms, as you acknowledged, if I married because I was too scared to express doubt, be alone, hurt my wife and similar type issues.

-Am I in love? I don't mean fairy tale love, but the love that exists that keeps two people together and working through issues that life throws at you.

-Am I being fair to my wife?

I think back to when we dated as I mentioned above, and I think about times where I felt like I wanted our relationship to end but didn't out of fear of hurt or aloneness. Did I marry her for those reasons? I don't think so, but those feelings existed during us dating nad have come out throughout our marriage. This is why I haven't talked to her about this yet.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Does she float your boat sexually?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Ok

so is it just a nagging feeling that you guys aren't that compatible soul mates, friends?

now 

a couple more questions for you

1. did you date many other women before your wife?
2. do you find yourself thinking romantic thoughts about 'other women' other relationships?
3. do you realise that this is all about YOU and not the realtionship?
4. this may sound weird - but once again speak from experience - are you jealous of your wife's ;ove for you? 
do you want to feel that level of devotion, committment? - or do you find it just makes you feel bad? 


(By this I mean the relationship hasn't a hope of being as good as it could be with one person so consumed with doubt)

do you and your wife want the same things?
do you have the same dreams?

do you look at other couples and think they seem more in love ?
happier? more together?

you know my H left me after 14 years and 2 kids saying he's always had doubts -

and the weird thing was that so many of our friends thought we had a wonderful life /relationship thatw e had it altogether...

I just say this because watching movies sure isn't going to give you any idea of being in a real relationship (that's why hollywood is called the fiction factory) and looking at other's relationships from the outside can be deceiving as well.....

what I am trying to say is that the only thing that matters is you and being honest with yourself 

I think this is what you are trying to do 

don't feel bad about this - this is good -

but you need to work towards taking responsibility for your feelings then.....


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

My wife and I aren't soul mates at all, been together 15 years total (I think) you get to know each other in time. Having a soul mate could be boring right? they basically see everything like you do right? I've learned to appreciate the things in my wife that I don't possess. Back to op, I don't know try a one month seperation see how it goes. There must be some big things you haven't posted.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks again for your input.

It's hard for me to describe exactly how to pinpoint my overall feelings/doubts. I don't necessiarly believe that there is one soulmate for everyone that my wife is or isn't that person. With that said, I do believe there are certain people you are compadible with and that a true love (not in the hollywood fantasy way) is possible. I don't really see us in that light. In fact, many times throughout our relationship, we've been in that position where it is more like having a roommate vs. a partner. But yes, overall I have a nagging feeling that this may not be the type of love needed to survive a lifetime of pain and hardship that any couple will experience.

In regards the question above about sex, that is another issue. I'm not super attracted to her and so I don't have as much of a sex-drive as I wish I would have. She has had serious concerns with this. 

To answer the other questions

1.) My wife is the only real long term realtionship I had. I had a few flings that lasted months, or just more casual dating, but nothing serious. 

2.) I have had romantic thoughts about other women, which really worries me. I refuse to allow myself to enter a situation where I would have an affiar, so I ensure I steer clear of thsoe situations. I would get a divorce before that happened, but yes I have had those thoughts and it makes me feel extremely guilty.

3.) I do understand it is about me. I've hid or closed off my feelings throughout our relationship, which I think is unfair to my wife. If throughout this process I find that I cannot give my whole heart to my wife, it is unfair to her. I need to find out what I am thinking, why I am thinking it and what to do about it.

4.) Am I jealous of my wife's love for me? Hmm, I haven't really thought of that, but I think I might be. It's more general than that. I'm jealous of the idea that someone can love and cherish someone as much as my wife does. No matter how hard I try, it seems like I never give as much thought and dedication to us or our relationship as she does. That does make me a little jealous and I begin to wonder if its me as a person or maybe its just that I am with the wrong person. While I wish to have that, it also makes me feel bad. When I hear about how much she talks about me and pretty much all her friends and coworkers know so much about me and her love for me, it makes me feel horrible. I am very closed about our relationship and rarely speak about it, and if I do, it's not in big detail. So there is both guilt and jealousy regarding my wife's love for me.

In regards to dreams, I think we are very similar minded. This is one item that has been great. We both want similar futures and we are both extremely supportive of career choices. I supported her through an advanced degree program after we got married, and now she is supporting me through additional school. When we speak about what we would our futures to be like, our visions and dreams are very similar.

I do sometimes think some other couples are more in love, but I don't have an unrealistic view in my point. I know hollywood romance is unrealistic and the cause of many people being very disspaointed. I do think as I mentioned above that true love is very real and know couples we are close to that have that. We know their problems and issues and the reality of their lives. Despite all this, there is a love there, from both parties, that I think is absent, at least with me sometimes.

I do want to take responsibilty for my thoughts, but I'm not sure exactly what to do. Am I nuts, or am I possibily in the wrong relationship?


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

martino, thanks for the feedback.

To be honest I've posted just about everything. There is no affair or anything like that looming over that I haven't mentinoed. To summarize:

-I have a seires of doubts described throughout my posts. This has led to not providing my wife with the affection or attention she seeks. The same goes for intimacy. Based on this, she has had some concerns with our marriage because she feels like she isn't getting what she needs, and I haven't been giving it because of my doubts.

That is the summary of the situation. Nothing else is involved.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Wow you have articulated lots of what my H did to me 
but it took him years and then months of counselling to do that -
you could do it off the cuff which says to me that you have already given this a lot of thought...and that you are not suffering from the same levels of emotional immaturity which curse my H

as for you and your wife you 

you sound like you are wonderfully compatible on many levels 

the sex thing is a worry though - but I've read plenty on these posts say that that can be addressed 
my H was attracted to me and still is ....but he still had these doubts and was sick of feeling guilty and as though he didn't love me enough..etc



unbeknownst to me my H had romantic thoughts about work colleagues for years - 

but he never did anything - like you the idea of an affair is distateful to him and ultimately he decided to leave me so that he could pursue other relationships without guilt....

the thing is the object of his desire just shifted with each new workplace - there was no one person who was it - it was just the lust of someone 'outside' of marriage - he has slipped up now and really does think he has found her and he does believe that he can have a deeper love with her - who knows?

I am sceptical but I would be biased here. 

I think for some guys (and girls) this sort of infatuation is really common - but I am pretty sure feeling guilty about it isn't healthy...I think there are better ways of using this sort of attraction....


but....
one final question

are you a good looking guy and quite charming who doesn't find it difficult to attract women??

and if you do find that women are fairly frequently attracted to you does this also make you feel guilty? 

I am going to keep on pondering what you have written...

you know you may not have the same sort of 'capacity' for love as your wife at this stage - for lots of reasons and perhaps that would be different with someone else 

tough thing is only one way to test that one! 

you know at the end of the day although this is real for you and painful and confusing I came to the conclusion that none of this mattered - the only thing that mattered to me was whether he wanted to committ to a better relationship -

that is really the question you need to ask yourself cause none of the others are able to be answered without testing them.

I guess if you come to the conclusion that you don't have the feelings you feel you should - and if this in turn feels 'wrong' which in turn leads you to think you need to get out - well I guess that is where you are heading....

but you sound like a reflective person 
go gently


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

sorry one more question
how do you feel about the idea of your wife with another guy?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Even happily married people think about other people now and then. So I don't think that's a valid measure of anything. If I weren't married and my T weren't married, I would be all over him so fast it would change the tilt of the planet. However, we are both married. And I love my husband. Thus, it is a non-starter.

Did it ever make me question my love for my husband? Absolutely. If I'm so in love, how could I feel this way? Easily. Believe it or not, we are attracted to and compatable with, more than one person. There is simply no such thing as "The One." IMO, this is one of your errors of thinking. You assume there is a "One" when there is not. There are any number. 

You feel your wife loves you more than you love her. Would you really prefer to be on the other end? Really, honestly think about that. The position of who loves the least is one of power. But if you love the other person, that is power you have to use responsibly. Maybe you don't dig that responsibility. I can certainly understand that. But having it and using it well is a part of maturity. That is all that's about. Maturity.

Knortoh is going at this from a different perspective and I encourage you to follow it through. But I also encourage you to question your assumptions about love relationships. I think far too many people base their entire world on faulty love assumptions.

Now this not giving her enough affection -- are you sure the reasons you are holding back are the real ones? Are you attracted to her? Do you have sexual interests that you feel you cannot share with her? Do you have secrets in this area? 

You know, the bottom line is that you can decide to be happy where you are. So keep that possibility in mind.

But I can also understand having gone with the flow and then looking back and realizing that you took the easy path instead of your true path. 

The question you can ask yourself though, is if this hasn't turned into the harder path and if this offers you opportunity for growth and fulfillment.

If you are attracted to her, and you like one another, I think there's a lot going for the marriage.

If you are not attracted to her, you've got a fundamental problem that probably can't be overcome.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey dobo
just wanted to chime in and sayI actually agree with you!

I am just digging a bit to see how similiar things are 

this is so much the 'sad' story that my H gave me 

kd2005 - you want to know whether you have strong enough feelings to get you two through the 'painful' stuff etc - you want to know whther your love is 'deep' enough etc...

same as my H - he was adamant that he wasn't leaving me for the 'romantic' stuff and that he didn't belieive in hollywood - but do you know he also cited hollywood movies as a time when he would feel 'uncomfortable' about us...

dobo I think it's really interesting the comment that you have made about the 
'harder path" - 
really interesting and you know I had never thought of this before but WOW - 
I often think my H had such an 'easy' time with me compared to his childhood and yes I loved him so much and made life sweet that when he was confronted with the "harder path" which was 

"I've turned 40 and I never actually asked myself if this is what I want" he took the 'easy' way out - even though he feels as though it is the 'tough' path.....

as though this is the 'test'.

you know I completely agree with dobo -

you can choose to be happy here 

but what I am trying to get to is the fact that 

the fact that my H had 'doubts' which he never spoke to me about became like a weight for him - (as they are for you) 

you may find speaking to a counsellor or even your wife will just lighten this immediately...

sorry I am going on if there is anything that is confusing just ask me - it is just SO FAMILIAR - but my H's story (I believe ended in tragedy) - breaking my heart and leaving two beautiful little boys - 
who incidentally told me the other day that 

they thought we had the best life and dad was just stupid and of he would have told us we could have helped make him happy...

anyway I am rambling - but please keep on posting I actually do feel that I have something to offer here


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks again everyone. Here are some additional thoughts based on the last few posts.

knortoh--

Regarding the comment about giving this alot of thought, I most definately have. I've been avoiding many of these thoughts for a while, so I've really taken time to break down exactly what I am feeling regarding our marriage.

Regarding sex, I think its both an issue of my doubts and attraction, which makes it worse. I agree with others that this is likely the worst issue of them all. Not only does it affect me, or occurs because of me, but I also know that is an issue taht really worries/upsets my wife. I'm not sure how to make this better, and I do think if I had to predict one item that would tear us apart aside from me deciding to leave is this one.

About looking outside of the marriage at other people, I've only had some sort of "feelings" for one person, a friend we had that I've essentially cut out of my life. Otherwise, it's just sometimes seeing other women and wondering what if. I guess that is normal, but it definately makes me feel guilty.

Regarding my looks, assuming I'm taking care of my appearance, I've been told I'm an attractive guy. Am I a model? No, but women do seem to be attracted to me. I'm not a big charmer, but I'm sure if I was actively searching I could find a woman who would be attracted to me. So am I an extremely good looking guy who can charm women off their feet? Not exactly, but I'm not the opposite either.

Overall I'm not sure where I am at mentally. Do I feel guilty? Yes. Do I sometimes feel like I do need to get out because we are both still in our mid 20s and have a full life ahead of us without kids right now? Yes. But then, I ask myself, what is it? Will I always feel this way in a marriage, or is it just this marriage? To be honest as I'm sure my posts have mentioned, we don't have a "bad" marriage. There is no cheating, we get along 90% of the time, and most of the negative aspects are tied to all these thoughts I've bad. The only issue I don't feel directly responsible for is that our personalities do clash sometimes, but then that is more of a part of life. Its not anything I would leave a marriage over. In fact, even if we did get divorced, I wouldn't regret our relationship. I've thought that before and no matter what, I'm happy for the time we've been together. Overall I think we've really grown as people. We both were huge helps in getting each other through college and are big reasons why we're both on a path to a successful life. Without our relationship, there is no telling where either of us would be. Its thoughts like that this that make me think all these doubts are dumb and I need to ignore them. 

Upon reflection, with all the different trhoughts I've expressed, it really comes down to the following for me:

-Did I make the right choice in staying with her during our 4 years and dating and deciding to marry her? Did I marry her to be with her for the rest of her life or did I marry her because it was the "easy" decision at the time and I was scared of what would happen if I broke it off or didn't go through with getting married? Those "what if" type questions are what haunt me.

Oh for the last question regarding another guy, this is tough one surprisingly. On one hand, it would be hurtful. No matter the doubts, I do feel that affairs extremely painful and destructive and would definitely be hurt. On the other hand, the side taht thinks that maybe I need to get out, I'm feel guilty in feeling that things would be easier if that were to happen. It would give me a reason to leave without needing to be the bad guy. I'm not saying I want that, but at times when thinking about this I wish I could just end it and her having an affair or something similar would be make it easy. I know this is a selfish and very stupid thought, but in the interest of being honest, that is how I feel sometimes. So to summarize, the thought of her with another man would definitely upset me, but sometimes I think it would make my decisions easier.

Dodo--

Thank you for your thoughts. 

I understand your view on love and relationships, I maybe I wasn't clear about it in another post, but I agree with you. I don't believe there is just one "soulmate" for a person. I also agree that holding that belief or that true love is like a hollywood movie or teen drama tv show is a major cause for marital issues. I am very realistic in how I think about that. But, even thought I don't believe in just a single soulmate, I do believe in true love. I do believe that love changes, people change, but there are countless examples of relationships that are able to survive all the tests and hardships life throws at us. This can exist with multiple people you meet throughout our life. I think that there are relationships and marraiges out there wher ethe love between two people are stronger than the problems. I get that mostly everyone will "think" about others, but having doubts and concerns like I do I don't think is healthy nor normal.

Regarding sex, as I mentioned above, there is a lack of attraction, not completely, but its there. I think taht is a major issue with intimacy, espectially when you add in the doubts. The worst part is my wife thinks I'm very attractive, which makes it even more one-sided. As I said above, I think this issue alone could possibly cause the end of our marriage, possibly initiated by her because I know this is an issue that really hurts her.

You make an interesting point about who loves who less. Maybe this is unrealistic, but I don't think a marriage necessarily has to be that way. Maybe I'm looking for something that doesn't exist, but I have to believe that marriage exist where both partners are in love without a major descreipancy. I know love changes, attraction changes, but there is definatley a major difference with us. Its obvious in how we interact with others and talk about each other, and I have to believe that isn't always the case.

Regarding the easy vs. hard path, here is what I think when I reflect on that. The "easy" path of ignoring the doubts, the postential hurt and thought of being alone has resulted in some great things. I think I'm a much better person than I was when we first met. My wife has given me so much confidence, modivation to finish college, support to get a great job and be sucessful at that job and then support to chase my dreams, even if it makes going back to school. I know for a fact I would be a different situation had I chose to break up our relationship, and most likely would not be on path to sucess, at least to the same degree, as I am now. The same goes for my wife. She was in a tough place when we met and I helped her follow her dreams, graduate and now she so happy with her career. So in that way, no matter what happens, I am very thankful for our time together because I think we both have gotten to where are today because of it. On the other hand, the "hard" path is much more unknown. Would I be with a women dating or married in a better situation from my point of view? Maybe. Would I be in a great situation regarding work and life choices? Maybe. I could be much more worse off too, there is no way to tell. For me its more about how things are going to be long term. Will these doubts overtake me and result in making a terrible decision (affairs etc..) or cause major resentment? Will our intimacy issues cause major resentment with my wife (something she has said she is scared of)? Things like that are what make me think sometimes the hard path might have been better for both of us. I know married couples who have lived with 20-30 years of being resentful about sex, regrets and other things, and it is extremely sad and painful and I would never wish that on either of us.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Speaking of doubts...

I wonder if some of the folks who are on the "loves less" side ever stop to realize that the people who love the most generally never articulate any of their own doubts. But you'd be a fool to believe they never have them.

My H is the loves more guy. We were talking not long ago and I mentioned to him that he's never shared with me any of his doubts about us. Well, he took that opportunity and shared. Dang. That didn't feel good. Sigh... But I asked and he trusted me enough to share his doubts. 

For a couple of days I felt really bad. I had to talk to myself to remind myself that his doubts didn't mean he was going to leave me. He was just talking about some things that quite honestly, needed to be said. 

Me, I blab about my doubts all of the time. Probably too much. 

I think there may be a few people who never have doubts about their mate. But I would really question whether they're thinking straight. Everyone has flaws and there are always other options out there. Always. 

So I think Knortoh is onto something about raising your doubts with your mate. Talk about it. Sometimes we give things more power than they deserve. Talking can lessen the perceived power of whatever it is.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

Dodo--

I know for a fact my wife has doubts. She has expressed them during long discussions after fights. Her doubts revolve around the intimacy/affection issues and she has said she feels like I settled. Those discussions really bother me because sometimes I have the same thoughts myself. 

In regards to speaking to her about all of this, a lot of this we can discuss, but the elphant in the room with us the intimacy thing. She feels like I'm not that attracted to her and I settled. Sometimes, as my posts allude to, I have doubts and feelings that point to that. How am I supossed to say that? Sure its selfish of me to think that, but, i can think of few things more hurtful than bringing that up. Those are major insecurities of hers and I would be shoving a knife through them. I guess I just don't know how to proceed with that or how there is any way that has a positive outcome. 

Don't take that as I'm closed to talking about this with her, but I guess it just really scares me. Maybe some of the people who have had those discussions, either being the one who said it or the one who it was said to, can you give me your thoughts?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you are over-romanticizing marriage. Sure, there may be marriages that are truly marriages of equals. But I think the vast majority has one partner who loves more. That's probably 99% of marriages.

The thing that takes up the rest of the slack is COMMITMENT. That's the hard work and effort that you put in. And that's what engenders real love in the end. It is staying when things are tough. Like they are for you now. If you want to know if you've got it in you, what you do here is going to tell the tale.

But I want to talk more about attraction. I think you're going to need to spell it out to me because I am not getting a clear sense of how attracted you are to her. You almost seem not to want to say it. 

So spell out this underlying issue with attraction.

Spell out why you don't want to be affectionate with her. I assume this means she isn't getting any very much, either. And yes, that will cause resentment in her just as it does in men who find their partners witholding. 

Let's not talk about anything else but that attraction for a little bit.

I also wonder if you know how attracted you can be to someone else and you feel perhaps, that this other woman that you had to give up, that you were more attracted to her. Do you have something to measure your level of attraction with or by? And I don't mean pure lust. I mean attraction to someone with whom you can have a complete relationship...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey I think we are getting closer now to the issue -
it seems much more like an intimacy problem 
and once agian I have to say that it is not necessarily simply the case that your wife finds you 'really attractive'

she makes you _feel_ this 

she loves you and offers you affection and I am guessing is very sexually 'giving'....

I have only ever had two real 'partners'

on a kind of beautiful list I would say my H is pretty high - but the partner before him was also attractive to me and I know that they both felt 'loved' and as though I was 'attracted' to them.....

must be awful and painful to argue about sex..................

hey I a'ways think that's the easy thing in life -

my H said to me that he liked sex with me but didn't 'feel' anything - aside from that being impossible I don't know what he is looking for -

liking sex was enough for me - I wasn't looking for this 'connection' when we had sex - for me it was like eating - 

sorry I am talking pretty much about me -

I am going to read through your posts again and post back later - there's a couple of things I want to think about....


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I *have* had discussions about attraction with my husband. He has had performance issues so of course attraction has been discussed. For us, we have been able to get at the source of his problems and we know where they come from. It isn't about attraction. 

If you admit to her that you're not attracted to her, she's probably going to be very hurt. But then, if you married her on a lie, I would think she has a right to know it and to make her own decision about what to do, too. If you hide it from her, she doesn't get to choose. Then she's being forced to settle for a guy who isn't all that into her. Because you're the only one with all of the information. 

I don't see that you have any choice but to be honest with her and see if you want to stay together. This gives her power over her own life, too. She may not want to settle for you once she has a clear picture of where you're coming from, regardless of her love and attraction for you.

I think it would be terribly unfair for you to make this decision alone.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

dobo said:


> I think you are over-romanticizing marriage. Sure, there may be marriages that are truly marriages of equals. But I think the vast majority has one partner who loves more. That's probably 99% of marriages.
> 
> The thing that takes up the rest of the slack is COMMITMENT. That's the hard work and effort that you put in. And that's what engenders real love in the end. It is staying when things are tough. Like they are for you now. If you want to know if you've got it in you, what you do here is going to tell the tale.
> 
> ...



so agree with dobo here - let's pursue this -

it is as though there is this 'invisible' measure - 

a sense of how things could have been more balanced more whole -

and remember it's all imagined ( I am guessing on your part because if you were extremely attracted to this other girl - chances are if you were in a relationship with her the 'loving more' scale would be tipped on your side)

I agree wholeheartedly with dobo there's no 'even' love - mainly because we are all different we express our love differently, we feel love differently, there are so many different sorts of 'love' ...so many reasons - 

the issue in long term relationship IS committment....

that simple


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

The attraction thing likely is a big issue. 

In terms of describing it, I'm not really sure exactly how to explain it. Does she, or myself for that matter, look like models? No, and I don't expect that. With that said, I have a lack of physical attraction to her. I'm not sure how to put it in more detail. Do i think she is ugly? No. Still, I don't really feel much physical attraction, and I do feel that does have an effect on intimacy. I know physical attraction is only one small piece of the pie, but I think its important to a certain degree and its really not there. On the other hand, yes she does make me feel attractive. But I also know there is a physical attraction there with her because not just what she tells me, but how she acts, the things she says to others. 

It looks like we really want to focus on the attraction issue, which I agree is a big part of this. I'm not sure if I answered this correctly. If you need more of a break down of my feelings, I'm a little confused on how to do that. What sort of details should I be focusing on when discussing this?


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

dodo--

Thank you for the honesty and I think you are right. She does deserve to know. My wife is very good about hiding her fears and acting like nothing is wrong. I the intimacy issues really do bother her, and I can tell there are times where she is upset when i think she is thinking about these issues and other doubts she has. I also think there is an underlying fear that I'm going to find another woman. Its mentioned jokingly, but its been said enough to where I think deep down, it scares her.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Do you want to jump her bones or not? 

Do you get a woody when she's in her nighty?

C'mon. This is the easy part to discuss.

Are you sure you don't have some other repressed issues that you're putting on her? Most guys have no problem discussing how they are or aren't attracted to their mates.

Gotta run.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

dodo--

To answer both your questions, no. I don't want to jump her bones nor am I really attracted to her when she wears lingerie etc..

Weight might be an issue, she isn't obese, but she is a bit overweight, but I have gotten that way too, so I can't hold that against her. With that said, even with some weight loss and both of us being healthier, I don't know if that would help.


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

I just wanted to add that I don't think that love just "happens." From the posts it seems like you might think that. Love and marriage are created. If you don't work on it, it doesn't exist. You not showing her affection is just automatically ruining the marriage. It's kind of a catch 22 but the more you show her affection, most likely the more you will feel affection towards her and you will also most likely find her more attractive. 

If her weight is an issue, start working out with her. Plan long walks with her as a "date", go out on a bike ride, go to the gym together, etc. etc. But, as I said, if you show her more affection and affinity, it's likely you will start to feel more attracted to her. 

In my opinion, when you love someone they are attractive, even if they're really not. If I think about my husband, he's got a big pot belly, he's a bit bow legged, he's balding, he's getting grey hair, etc. etc. Do I notice any of it? Nope. I find him more and more attractive every day. I wasn't even attracted to him when we started dating, but then as my love for him grew, he became more and more attractive. I honestly think he's the most attractive man in the world, though no one else would agree.

So I think if you actually WORK on your marriage instead of just going with the flow, I think the attraction issue will resolve and your doubts will eventually go away. By work on it I mean take her out on dates, compliment her, do nice things for her, be affectionate, etc. If you truely do this and you notice no change (I'd say give it at least a year or more) then maybe you aren't meant to be together. But you have to be fully willing to work on it and make it work, it won't happen by itself. Hope that helps.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

mae--

Thanks for the feedback. I realize relationships don't just happen. I do admit I haven't done the best job, but I have tried to be more affectionate, using some of your suggestions. It hasn't really helped up to this point.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Were you ever attracted to her that way?

I think you're nice to say you can't hold her weight against her. However, it does enter into attraction. So are you sure if she ditched some weight that you wouldn't be more into her?

I also asked about the measuring stick you're using. (And yes, that one!) Is there anyone else in your history that you *were* attracted to *that* way -- let me couch that with a caveat -- that was within the realm of possibility?

I want to rule out a low drive as being the problem. I don't get "passion" from you in any way. I'm feeling that this isn't really about her as much as it is about you. Maybe I'm reading in too much. But I feel, perhaps wrongly, that you're blaming her (in a way, I know you're not) instead of asking yourself if you have a low drive or low testosterone or something along those lines.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

I was attracted to her more at the beginning, but it's never been a full blown attraction. I do feel guilt with that, major guilt because I feel like I'm dishonest.

In terms of a measuring stick, yes there have been women I've been more attracted to and are within in my realm of possibility.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

dodo--I do have drive, but its often overshadowed by all the bad emotions I feel (guilt, worry, concern, possible regret) and the attraction issue.


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

kd2005 said:


> mae--
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I realize relationships don't just happen. I do admit I haven't done the best job, but I have tried to be more affectionate, using some of your suggestions. It hasn't really helped up to this point.


Can I ask what exactly you've done to try to be more affectionate and for how long? What exactly do you do to work on the marriage? Do you take her on dates? Give her compliments? Hold her hand? Make her dinner? Etc. etc.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

I've tried a number of things.

-sending her sweet text messages throughout the day while we are apart

-dates

-cooking her dinner and doings things for her around the house

-trying to compliment her as much as possible...despite all the attraction issues I have, she is not an ugly person and I want to be sure she knows that

-finding time for just us to sit or lay together and talk (something she has always liked)

There are other things too, but over the past year to year in a half I've really tried to step up in a variety of ways. My doubts have only gotten worse, and I think her issues and worries about intimacy and such have gotten worse too.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

hmmm

the intimacy stuff is sounding tricky - such a big part of relationships really 

I thought it was kind of weird that when I asked you about you felt about her with another guy you assumed affair 

I meant another life-long partner who loves and cherises her -

does that make you feel better (relieved that she is getting what she deserves) or do you feel jealous?

I think you guys are ready for some MC if she already knows about the doubts and she has them it will only end badly if you guys don't face this head on now -


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My suggestion to you is that you seek counseling. You have guilt issues. I still don't get from you any sort of passion. I mean, what kind of add'l attraction are we really talking about here? Your statements are all so... lifeless.

Are you sure you're not just depressed? 

Have a checkup. Make sure you are in a state of good physical health.

Find a therapist.

Don't do anything stupid in your marriage. You could regret this in a big way if it turns out there is really another problem that you're projecting onto your wife.

And look, if it turns out you're just not into her, she's going to be hurt and angry. There is no other way for that to go. It isn't going to be pleasant. But if that turns out to be the ultimate truth, you are going to have to face the fallout. I hope it turns out to be something else.


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

If you have really tried all that and it hasn't helped at all then you need to really tell her how you feel and decide what you want to do. It's not fair to her. I've felt sometimes that my hubby feels the same way about me that you feel about your wife (not sure why he married me, not sure if he loves me, etc.) and the biggest upset I have is that he doesn't communicate to me about it (I've seen emails he's sent to his friends saying these things but he won't say it to me directly). 

So that's about all I think you can do at this point. Really tell her how you feel and decide what you want to do about it. You're either going to need to leave her or decide to try to make it work and then work on improving yourself (go to church, read books, see a couselor, etc.) and work harder on your marriage.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

knortoh--

I have a feeling I know what this is leading to, but to answer your question honestly, it does make me feel better to think about my wife with someone who loves and cherishes her to the same degree she does to me. Would there be jealousy there, maybe, but overall I want her to be happy. I haven't really been giving her what she needs to be happy, and I'm not sure if I ever can. To think about her being able to go through life without some of the doubts and concerns I know she has really does make give me a happy thought.

I do have a feeling time is of the essence in this situation. I think we're both hiding our emotions, mine as described on here and her's that I think are more centered around the lack of intimacy. I also have to admit that I am scared to death of having a completely open discussion about this. She has a tendency to shut down and put a wall up when she is upset or hurt, and I imagine the discussion woudl end with one of us out of the door. Despite the fact that our marriage has been good for the moast part, a fight regarding her concerns came very close to seperation a couple months ago, so I know its not out of realm of possibility. I'm pretty sure we would be apart by the end of that talk, and I have a very real feeling that she would likely end it all together.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

ok you sound like you have a lot of stuff sorted -

just really advise to take things slowly and with some professional help....


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

BTW, that feeling you have about your wife being happy is called love.

You've got what you termed a 90% positive marriage. If you have another problem that is undiagnosed, and you can save this, you could have something the rest of us envy. So do the groundwork beyond talking to us. Again, don't do anything rash.


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## kd2005 (Oct 2, 2009)

knortoh--

In your opinion does it sound like I've decided to end it in some way?

dodo--

I do love my wife and I want her to be extremely happy. She is a good person and she deserves that. I think she spends much more time than I'm privy to upset and hurt over the intimacy/affection issues with me. She deserves someone that will give her what she needs. There is also an emotional aspect. She needs me much more than I need her, emotionally and physically, and once again, she deserve a man who will provide her with what she needs. I'm not sure if I can.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

you are sounding on the side of ending it....

you are looking for reasons to 'stay' when you already have loads

I don't think you value what you have honestly I don't 

but I have seen that thsi doesn't mean you won't leave....

or end it


as my counsellor says 

people leave good relationships and stay in bad ones ....this is counter intuitive and goes against the truism that goes if the relationship was giving you what you needed you wouldn't leave - you wouldn't even be thinking about leaving - 

I think what Dobo and I are both saying is that 
this is a case where you are in a good place in so many ways - you just have to read some of these posts to see how f***ed some realtionships are -

at the end of the day I think when people leave these sorts of relationships (mutual love respect admiration ) etc it is because you want something that is outside the relationship - 

not necessarily a 'person' but something....

perhaps in your case it is the risk and excitement and possibility 

are you bored?

I don't know mate (sorry I'm Australian!!) I don't know if you've decided to end it in your heart - only you know that!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

To me, I'm starting to firmly go with you being depressed. You avoid a lot of questions that other guys would answer easily. 

Maybe your other problem is that you feel suffocated by your wife. She's too needy. And you feel guilty for not wanting to be the guy that meets those needs.

Did you ever consider that maybe she needs to establish more independence and a life apart from you so that she can grow as an individual as well as within the relationship? And do you consider yourself at all responsible for the dynamic you find yourself in? IOW, did you in any way foster this dependence on you? Did it serve you at one time but now it does not?

I'm almost a little insulted *for* your wife. She can replace you, you know. She won't curl up and die if you leave. Everyone can be replaced. That's a sad fact. 

Are you willing to seek counseling and to get a thorough physical to rule out any underlying issues? 'Cause I'm guessing you have low libido in general. Classic depression symptom.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

dobo said:


> To me, I'm starting to firmly go with you being depressed. You avoid a lot of questions that other guys would answer easily.
> 
> Maybe your other problem is that you feel suffocated by your wife. She's too needy. And you feel guilty for not wanting to be the guy that meets those needs.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I read something very interesting recently about divorce. It said that people tended to be more likely to divorce when there was a lack of/loss of love. As opposed to getting divorced because there was too much friction/arguing. 

KD - What you have written is seriously scary. And the reason is that I don't think it would take much, for you to lose all interest in your wife sexually. That is not good. I frequently say that when it is good/great sex itself is 10 percent of the relationship, when it is bad it becomes 90 percent. And I believe that. It IS ok to have an imbalance in love. But not as big as you do. Yours is too big an imbalance and that creates many problems. 

This is a sad situation. I absolutely believe you are a decent guy and your intentions were good. I also believe you cannot fix this. 

There might be some folks who say - the passion is only a small part of marriage - the first year or few years. That is so not true. Still have a lot of passion in year 20. Had it from the first month. Makes like completely different. Amplifies everything. 











kd2005 said:


> Thanks again everyone. Here are some additional thoughts based on the last few posts.
> 
> knortoh--
> 
> ...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I agree about passion. Passion and attraction help when things get tough. That's why I indulged my shallow side second time around. I wanted to have every thing I could think of working for me.

That said, I still think this fellow needs to proceed cautiously and make sure there isn't an organic issue within him before he opts out. Because if there is and he doesn't find out before acting, he'll have what Knor's husband has -- all of the guilt, still feeling bad, but all alone with none of the benefit. 

Physical
Psychiatric workup
Therapy

all prior to action. This is too important to not do right.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

the passion is important but also not enough to save things it would seem from my example....

my H still had passion and was overwhelmed with desire for me when he left -

but in the end it didn't save our marriage - men are able to discount everything when things are tough for them....


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

sorry just thought - maybe with me H is just lust and not passion - I don't know - it's all about desire and if you don't 'desire' someone heart , body and soul I guess that's it?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

kd 
I have been thinking again - and once again sorry if this sounds harsh - the question of power keeps coming up - 

dobo mentioned it as well...yes the person who 'loves less' is in the powerful position and unless you are careful of this power you abuse it - 
I think you don't respect your wife because she does love you more - there is jut sosmething in your posts which is quite dismissive of her love for you -
how do you know about it - because she tells her friends etc...
this sounds quite juvenile -
you have started to withdraw your love affection from her because you can .....
it strikes me as quite mean that if you know that the outcome of an honest conversation about this is that the marriage is over that you don't do this -
because SHE has been the one who has suggested leaving - and she will...
but it will be her choice and so she will have the power back....
I think this is why you don't want to have that conversation.....
you will be left with all your doubts...
she won't have any - she respects herse;f too much to stay with someone who doesn't really love her -
I bet you send her mixed messages all the time - saying I love you but not actually 'giving' she is confused 
but once she emerges out of this confusion she's walk away knowing that she is capable of really loving and really giving 

at the end of the day it is when you don't take responsibility for your feelings that this happens


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dobo makes a very good point. If you are depressed - that will kill the love/passion etc. You owe it to yourself and your wife to make sure - sure sure - that you don't have an internal issue that is a major contributor/cause of this situation. 

That means:
- Doctor or more then one if need be
- Therapist
- Follow Doc's T's orders for a while
- Then and only then - if it really is the marriage - think about a lawyer. 







knortoh said:


> kd
> I have been thinking again - and once again sorry if this sounds harsh - the question of power keeps coming up -
> 
> dobo mentioned it as well...yes the person who 'loves less' is in the powerful position and unless you are careful of this power you abuse it -
> ...


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I was wondering how things are going? Did you take the advice of going to a doctor? I agree with that. You should check that out before any major decisions are made. 
Dobo- I am just curious, you have some great advice and wonderful posts but you don't have any thread started. Are you one of those happily married people? I hope so for your sake.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

This guy has never come back. I wonder why not...


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## spaceandtime30 (Apr 6, 2010)

As someone who can totally identify with absolutely everything you're feeling (and, by God, is it a relief that someone else in the world has these same feelings), I'm intrigued. What did you do? What was the outcome? 

Please help someone who is absolutely doused in guilt about this.


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## genny (Feb 14, 2011)

Although this is an older chain, i am curious how it worked out. I feel very, very similar thoughts to the original poster. I've been fighting them for years and this weekend actually brought the talk up about a separation. It makes me really sad when i think about it, but i am not sure that i can keeping living the same way, with these doubts and desires as a perpetual weight. Thoughts from anyone on this chain?


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