# Looking for a little help



## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

So this story starts back about 4 years, when I found out my wife was involved in a pretty serious emotional affair with a former childhood friend. It was absolutely brutal at the time. There were mostly emails I had stumbled upon and I was crushed. At that time I wanted to do whatever it took to make the marriage work and took my share of lumps along the way before the emotional affair ended. We are in our 40's now and have 3 kids. She has her fair share of issues including anxiety and depression.

Anyway we worked through it or so I thought, and for the most part felt I trusted her again. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon an email to another guy that I didn't know and from the content it looked to be more than just a friend. After some more digging on her phone records found she had been in contact with the guy by phone and text extensively over the last month and a half. When I confronted her she claimed the guy was just a friend referred to her to touch base with about some anxiety issues our 12 year old and apparently they deal with the same thing. I went off because after going through the last ordeal I promised to myself and her that if we ever went through this type of thing again I was gone. Upon talking to her she also told me on her trip with our daughter to California the week prior she had stopped in to say hi to this guy from 4 years ago. She said she did it because she just had to see if there was something still there?! (She is one of these really emotional persons, who back 4 years ago thought he was the one and only true love for her. She buys into "the one" thing. Anyway she said she felt absolutely nothing when she saw the guy, and they talked for about 10 minutes and that was it.

In talking further she tells me something is really wrong with her, and that a couple of weeks ago she left her phone number with a bartender when she was out with her friend. Nothing came from it, but her point is that she admits she has issues, recognizes something is wrong. From her standpoint she is not placing any blame on me, though I feel if this is coming up she must not be getting something from me. I am very giving, and almost always the one to give affection, take great care of our kids, and feel my family is everything.

I woke up the next day from this and said I was done. Couldn't deal with all this again. She has some issues for sure, but she is an adult and knows the consequences. She pleaded to work with her and that she would go see help, and showed true remorse or what seemed like it. I love the girl, but again can't go through the torment that I went through before. That day she booked to go see a shrink, and went back again later that day. The lady said she could be bi polar but who knows from a couple of visits. 

This was two weeks ago, and I have told her I would have a wait and see approach, and not make any hasty decisions. It has been an up and down 2 weeks for sure, and to be honest don't feel like I am getting the whole story with what has been going on for the last couple of months or possibly more. 

More than anything I have said what I care about more than anything is upfront honesty and communication. Sometimes she is open with me but often she is closed and after what happened years ago I feel I have worked really hard on my side to get her to open up more, for us to be closer but often times she is still closed off. 

I am totally prepared to walk away and would be fine with it, but am totally vested in my family and kids and have seen firsthand how brutal it is when you split a family. And I do still love her, though feeling a lot of anger.

Of course this is a very short version, but any suggestions are welcome....


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Without trust and respect, no amount of love can save a marriage. But if you can find it in your heart, then go ahead and help her if she is sincere in her desire to heal herself. She is the mother of your children and they deserve and need a mother who is healthy.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tough spot

she broke NC with her former EA
she started up a new EA 
and she's making herself available to men


I don't blame you for wanting to end it, that's a LOT of distrust to work through

and speaking of someone who is bipolar, she is still responsible for her actions, she stills knows the difference between right and wrong


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

First, get a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass if you haven't read that before--the best book out there on emotional affairs.

You are very right to be concerned. Not only has she broken NC with her former EA, but she is clearly reaching out and soliciting other men for an EA or more.

At some point the hole in her is so profoundly deep that you cannot fill it. I'm glad she at least recognizes how broken she is.

BTW, all people in EAs believe in "the one." But clearly, she believes in "the one" as a concept, not brought to life. That is a big difference I see between her and, for example, my husband, who recently exited a long-term EA with his "soulmate" who in many ways he barely knew. 

My husband understands now that his AP (affair partner) wasn't "the one" and that there is no "one." There are just people, and you get along better with some than others, and when you have considerable history and commonality with your spouse, make it work with them. (A member here, Beowulf, has a quote from J.R.R. Tolkein: your soulmate is the one you married.)

No human being is going to fill that void in your wife--she is going to have to come to grips with that. Meanwhile, your difficult decision is whether you work with her on this very serious, perhaps incurable, problem, or whether you have had enough heartache.

Your children are also watching. You surely do not want to teach them to choose a spouse who is only half there for you (and them) and who is a bottomless pit in need of validation from bartenders. Consider carefully what they are being exposed to and whether it is fair to THEM.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

She has very low boundaries. I am very suspicious of her stopping to say hi to this guy. Did she go to his house? She is giving her phone numbers out to strangers. I suspect there is more here.

I also think at some point she will tell you how bad you are and how you drove her to do this. I hope I am wrong but my wife did this to me. After being caught telling me for months how I did nothing wrong then months into R she is telling me that our marriage basically sucked and wants to fix it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*In talking further she tells me something is really wrong with her, and that a couple of weeks ago she left her phone number with a bartender when she was out with her friend. Nothing came from it, but her point is that she admits she has issues, recognizes something is wrong.*

Ya think?

Check it out--there have been NO consequences for her actions. She sees you as someone who will take her back, no matter what she does to you, and that is not a good thing, my friend.

She has VERY poor boundaries and more importantly, little to no respect for you or your marriage. Her telling you she had to see if she had "feelings" for the other guy AFTER she'd already had one affair is just...there are no words. 

Bi-polar or not, she is an adult who makes choices every day. And all her choices, unfortunately, have been to the detriment of your marriage, to you, to your family.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Oh my God!
She's showing again how irresponsible she is!


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I seriously doubt that you have the full story. I would consider getting an STD. You may also wish to give her a polygraph. I am sorry but she is sounds like a serial cheater. She is in damage control and is minimizing her story.
If the roles roles were reversed do you think she would put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you? She is a habitual liar. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Lots of good stuff in there. I agree I have let her walk on me to a certain degree, and I think her mental issues have allowed me to do this, right or wrong. As I have told myself though, if it becomes so detrimental to my own mental health I have to realistic about possibly moving on. As far as I can tell she has cut off all contact with any of these guys.


I have let her know I need what is outlined below to even begin to consider staying in the marriage, and that I couldn't promise anything.

- Come clean; what bugs me the most is I know I don't know the whole story. When I found the suspicious email a couple of weeks ago, I asked repeatedly to see her phone and she refused. I had told her multiple time there was nothing else to talk about then. Clearly I feel there is more to it and she is hiding something. So I have let her know she has to come clean with me and let me know exactly what has been going on. She stated multiple times there has never been anything physical and she was very adamant about it, but I can't be sure.

- Transparancy; I asked that she has to be able to show me her phone, email accounts, etc anytime if I ask. No exceptions...

- No Contact; no more contact with any of these guys.

- Marriage Counseling; I put this on her, she said she wants to do it, but it's been a couple of weeks and nothing has been booked. We'll see.

- She's got to want to this; I need to see from her she's vested in this.

It's been a wave of emotions, and the last few days I have been cold to her as honestly I am just angry about it. Yesterday she sent me a text that said, "please don't be upset with as I am so stressed and not happy and that only makes it worse." I told her I understand she is upset, but I didn't do this to myself, she's done this and not me.

Anyway, that's where we are right now. She's a wreck right now, and when the **** hits the fan that tends to be her reaction to want to run away from it all and not deal with it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

scotnb93 said:


> It's been a wave of emotions, and the last few days I have been cold to her as honestly I am just angry about it. Yesterday she sent me a text that said, "please don't be upset with as I am so stressed and not happy and that only makes it worse." I told her I understand she is upset, but I didn't do this to myself, she's done this and not me.



100% remorse is another requirement imo if you go for R

IOW this sort of crap that she texts isn't acceptable, she has to do the "heavy lifting" for years to atone for the number of infractions and take 100% of blame for the affair


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

scotnb93 said:


> I told her I understand she is upset, but I didn't do this to myself, she's done this and not me.



Good for you on this.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

+1 on polygraph. Her reaction to it will tell you a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> Anyway, that's where we are right now. She's a wreck right now, and when the **** hits the fan that tends to be her reaction to want to run away from it all and not deal with it.


That's what she gets out of her multiple EAs--a secret private fantasy life in which there are no problems. No one to hold her feet to the fire, no one to criticize, just lots and lots of affirmation and validation, no matter how false it may be.

Her telling you that you're making it worse with your attitude is just another way to try to rope you in to sharing the blame.

What are the consequences behind your hard line?


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

keko said:


> +1 on polygraph. Her reaction to it will tell you a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

She's doing all the damage and she's complaining about you not showing affection and being cold???

Oh irony! 

I wonder how she dares to claim for affection and respect when she should actually do everything to earn it and make it up to you!!!


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

_I have let her know I need what is outlined below to even begin to consider staying in the marriage, and that I couldn't promise anything.

- Come clean; what bugs me the most is I know I don't know the whole story. When I found the suspicious email a couple of weeks ago, *I asked repeatedly to see her phone and she refused. I had told her multiple time there was nothing else to talk about then.* Clearly I feel there is more to it and she is hiding something. So I have let her know she has to come clean with me and let me know exactly what has been going on. She stated multiple times there has never been anything physical and she was very adamant about it, but I can't be sure.

- Transparancy; I asked that she has to be able to show me her phone, email accounts, etc anytime if I ask. No exceptions...

- No Contact; no more contact with any of these guys.

- Marriage Counseling; I put this on her, she said she wants to do it, but it's been a couple of weeks and nothing has been booked. We'll see._

You have all the right ideas here, but what do you do if she doesn't agree with them? What are you going to do? You should be ready to file for divorce.

_she also told me on her trip with our daughter to California the week prior she had stopped in to say hi to this guy from 4 years ago. She said she did it because *she just had to see if there was something still there?*!_ 

So basically she's telling you that she's still hoping to replace you with another guy. The one from four years ago would be just fine with her, but he doesn't want her anymore. So now she is looking for a new guy.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dude, after the first time, and she won't show me the phone, I would have been gone the next day. There was too much evidence on it. Now it's gone, and she can TT you. I respect your stance, but I would be gone. Not making the appointment show she is stalling to let things settle down. Bluff her and say you are getting a lawyer to get the deleted txs, fom the phone company.


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

She has an Iphone 4 she has had for about 6 months, though has never backed it up so I can't access the SMS file. 

She is on a school trip until tomorrow and I will ask to see her phone. My guess is that if their was anything incriminating on it she would have deleted it. Does anyone know if I do a backup if I can access deleted texts?

If not, I know I can bluff and tell her that I will do a backup of her phone and that will allow me to access her deleted texts. She is clueless about technology so wouldn't know, and I would get a very good read if she was worried about the possibility of me being able to see something.

As far as advice, if she says no again, and won't give me the phone is there any logical reason I should not walk away?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> As far as advice, if she says no again, and won't give me the phone is there any logical reason I should not walk away?


There's no need to tell her that you still have the chance to see the deleted messages. 
Ask her to show the you phone. If she doesn't then simply walk away, find the deleted messages. Confront her then divorce her. 
If she doesn't show you the phone then chances are that she's still hiding something. This should tell you that she's able to keep on lying to you.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

See here's the problem with that, she knows he may ask to see the phone since she has been away, so she will delete stuff before she get back from the trip.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> She has an Iphone 4 she has had for about 6 months, though has never backed it up so I can't access the SMS file.
> 
> She is on a school trip until tomorrow and I will ask to see her phone. My guess is that if their was anything incriminating on it she would have deleted it. Does anyone know if I do a backup if I can access deleted texts?
> 
> ...



Way to retrieve deleted text messages from iphone - Truth About Deception

Sync'ing the iphone literally takes a few seconds to a minute. Have the computer open, itunes installed ready and when she enters bathroom/shower give it a shot.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you sure she is at the school trip?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

So it looks to be going south. She's back from her trip, and is just going into a shell and doesn't want to talk. I know there is more to the story and she does not want to face it. I will give it a few more days and if she wont talk we'll be done.

On another note, I have printed out a list of all the texts from her latest guy. It was over 2,000 texts in a month and over 400 minutes on the phone. The first text was at 2am on a Saturday night, when I was out of town and there were charges on her card from a bar, so I can only think she saw them that night.

I am prepared to reach out to the OM's wife and show her all the text and phone info. A question, even if I don't have proof of any physical affair yet, is it still appropriate to reach out to this woman and tell her what I know? Thanks in advance...


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

scotnb93 said:


> So it looks to be going south. She's back from her trip, and is just going into a shell and doesn't want to talk. I know there is more to the story and she does not want to face it. I will give it a few more days and if she wont talk we'll be done.
> 
> On another note, I have printed out a list of all the texts from her latest guy. It was over 2,000 texts in a month and over 400 minutes on the phone. The first text was at 2am on a Saturday night, when I was out of town and there were charges on her card from a bar, so I can only think she saw them that night.
> 
> I am prepared to reach out to the OM's wife and show her all the text and phone info. A question, even if I don't have proof of any physical affair yet, is it still appropriate to reach out to this woman and tell her what I know? Thanks in advance...


You are getting typical Trickle-Truth. She will grudgingly admit to only what you can prove and try to justify that.

There is a lot more to this story than you know and you may never get the entire truth. 

If she shut down after coming home from the trip. she was most likely in communication with someone the entire time. 

If she cannot be open and honest, if she cannot show true remorse, if she cannot empathize with the pain her actions have caused you, then it is time for you to protect yourself.

She says she knows she has a problem but that does not stop her destructive behavior. She is not even hiding it well.

I just cannot get over the fact that she admitted to giving her phone number to a man she met in a bar!! Talk about a slap in the face to you. Maybe she should have business cards with her number on it "For a good time call XXX-XXX-XXXX".


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> So it looks to be going south. She's back from her trip, and is just going into a shell and doesn't want to talk. I know there is more to the story and she does not want to face it. I will give it a few more days and if she wont talk we'll be done.
> 
> On another note, I have printed out a list of all the texts from her latest guy. It was over 2,000 texts in a month and over 400 minutes on the phone. The first text was at 2am on a Saturday night, when I was out of town and there were charges on her card from a bar, so I can only think she saw them that night.
> 
> I am prepared to reach out to the OM's wife and show her all the text and phone info. A question, even if I don't have proof of any physical affair yet, is it still appropriate to reach out to this woman and tell her what I know? Thanks in advance...


That's about 15 hours of texting and telephone calls in one month. FIFTEEN HOURS. 

What I would do is print out the bill, highlighting all the times the number was called / texted.

You will probably wish you highlighted only the OTHER calls. But anyone glancing at the page will get the point, loud and clear. You don't even have to say a word.

I'm really really sorry.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> That's about 15 hours of texting and telephone calls in one month. FIFTEEN HOURS.
> 
> What I would do is print out the bill, highlighting all the times the number was called / texted.
> 
> ...


Oh, and I would also mention to the OMW that this isn't the first time your wife has done this, and that it's highly likely she'd do it again. That knowledge would at least give the OMW a fighting chance to put a seed of doubt into her husband where your WS is concerned. It is one small thing that would give them a chance at reconciling and wake up the OM to the fact that he doesn't want to lose his marriage over this person.

Again, I wish the situation was different. I am glad to hear a note of strength in your voice about the hard facts of the situation that I didn't detect before.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> So it looks to be going south. She's back from her trip, and is just going into a shell and doesn't want to talk. I know there is more to the story and she does not want to face it. I will give it a few more days and if she wont talk we'll be done.
> 
> On another note, I have printed out a list of all the texts from her latest guy. It was over 2,000 texts in a month and over 400 minutes on the phone. The first text was at 2am on a Saturday night, when I was out of town and there were charges on her card from a bar, so I can only think she saw them that night.
> 
> I am prepared to reach out to the OM's wife and show her all the text and phone info. A question, even if I don't have proof of any physical affair yet, is it still appropriate to reach out to this woman and tell her what I know? Thanks in advance...


Are you reading the content of the texts or just the logs?

Have a look at the link I posted and get the content of her texts. It'll tell you if she slept with the guy or not.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

If she hasn't been doing backups/sync with her iPhone, all you have to do is sync it for her. You'll prob be able to see the last month or so of deleted texts from the newly created backup file on the computer then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think her actions after returning show that there was more to this trip than school. Could he have met her where she went?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Her and your daughter were in Cali, she decides to drive and meet the guy to see if she still has feelings for him. Talks for about 10 minutes before she realizes she has no feelings for him and that's all that happened?

OH boy, what a story. Plausible but man, it would take a miracle for me to believe that story.

So, what was the real reason behind her trip is what I'm thinking....


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*she also told me on her trip with our daughter to California the week prior she had stopped in to say hi to this guy from 4 years ago. She said she did it because she just had to see if there was something still there?!*

This tells you all you need to know about where her head is at.

She's carrying a torch for the other man from four years ago.

She gave her phone number (unsolicited?) to a bartender she just met.

Now she found yet another guy and has logged 15 hours of talk/text with him in a month. She's doing this in secret and deleting the texts. This is ongoing.

She told you she's unhappy and your being upset by her adulterous affairs is making her more unhappy.

*In talking further she tells me something is really wrong with her*

This is a ploy to get you to give her more time. She doesn't want to give up her backup plan, her housekeeper, her babysitter, her veneer of respectability. _"I have a disease. Please help me"_ - all the while refusing to get any help - no appointment with the marriage counselor, refusing to give you access to her phone - if it really were a sickness, these things she would do.

*after what happened years ago I feel I have worked really hard on my side to get her to open up more, for us to be closer but often times she is still closed off*

You've done your best, you've invested a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in this, but it's not getting any better. If you stay and continue to try to work it out, I think she will eventually leave you anyway, maybe even hurt the kids even worse if they have to live through a nasty physical affair. Like you said, it's headed south, time to cut your losses and make the best of a bad situation before it gets even worse.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. Start lining up a good attorney.
2. Get an STD test done.
3. She is so lying to you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It could be very ong and emotionally painfull to continue to confirm a PA.
I suggest you confront OMW with what you have and discuss it with her with regard to how the both you handle the confrontation.

Work together and come to an agree ment with regards to continue investigating or confront. 

The best thing now is you have an extra set of eyes. But you both deside to confront it will for sure make the affair inconvienent to continue since both of you will be keeping an eye on things.

In addition, you and OMW have a good chance by ending this when the OM focuses on saving his marriage and having lees focus on your wife. the best case her is the OM throws your W under the bus and then again the affair is broken up.

In short you and OMW may never now if it went PA, but it ends the affair sooner then later


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

deleted


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

So I went dark for a little while. 

I have been hanging back a bit to see how things would develop. I just installed a keylogger yesterday and VAR in car. I just discovered an unknown email address where she is definitely communicating with the guy I discovered the texts from.

Only a few emails in there and nothing too incriminating, but clearly they are still communicating which is an outright lie as she said they are not communicating. 

No doubt I will file for Divorce, just thinking I should compile a little more evidence first. Thoughts....


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Most other people need more evidence; you sir, and I say this with a great deal of kindness and sympathy, are not one of them.

You just confirmed what you, and everyone who has followed your thread already knew.

Show YOURSELF the love and respect you deserve and that she was never capable of giving you.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Personally I think just having her served is the best way, avoid the drama of yet another confrontation and just show her you know thru the lawyer


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

scotnb93 said:


> So I went dark for a little while.
> 
> I have been hanging back a bit to see how things would develop. I just installed a keylogger yesterday and VAR in car. I just discovered an unknown email address where she is definitely communicating with the guy I discovered the texts from.
> 
> ...


You have been patient this long -- and now have tools in place. I suggest waiting till you get the incriminating proof before you confront. Unfortunately I don't think you will have to wait long -- just lay low as if nothing is bothering you (if you can). One last thing -- how about a GPS to track her movement that shows where she is -- when she says she is going out !!


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

I am sure it has been asked before, but is there potential legal downside for me presenting emails obtained through a keylogger. Looking on the web it appears so


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Do not reveal your sources


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

scotnb93 said:


> No doubt I will file for Divorce, just thinking I should compile a little more evidence first. Thoughts....


If you're in a no fault state, gather all the info you need, it's not gonna help in the D.


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

Yes, in a no fault state


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't reveal your sources ever. She knows what she is doing. She can deny all she likes, but if she knows and you know, then she's just talking to herself because you have no need to listen to denials and lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Keep the VAR on yourself when she is served with divorce papers, and keep it till one of you move out of the house.


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## texas_dad_2120 (Apr 24, 2012)

Update:

So last week I brought up the email addresses with other guy and said I was moving out. Apparently this guy is a financial advisor who she had been talking to about if she was getting a divorce what it would look like her for financially. I looked and he is a financial advisor, married, and has 3 kids.

Again I did not have any proof, emails, anything, that told me it could be otherwise. Anyway I said I was gone, slept the night at the house and left for work in the morning.

She shows up at my office an absolute wreck, saying she will do anything, she does not want a divorce, she couldn't have anyone better than me. Actually showed real remorse. I think it was real for the first time for her, and she openly said she was really scared. The latest from her doctor said she might suffer from some sort of disassociative personality disorder. Who knows.

First I said I am not promising anything, for me the marriage is on hold right now. She has agreed to complete transparency, marriage counseling, no contact, has to show remorse, and point blank I have no trust in her. I am treading thinly here, some days want to leave, and also hanging to see how it develops. I am monitoring her communications and nothing so far.


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