# A "best of" list of posts



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you are a man and you want to have a passionate relationship with your wife:
1. ALL dominance starts in-house. That means you learn to control YOUR emotions - especially the two biggest enemies fear and uncontrolled anger.
2. True control of emotions enables great self control of your behavior. Not just the words that issue from your mouth, but your body language.
3. The baseline against which you measure behavior is the golden rule. Do NOT allow people to treat you worse than you would treat them.
4. Acknowledge that without respect you have nothing. ALL respect emanates from in-house. If you don't respect yourself, well you can finish that sentence.
5. Earn respect by performing, demand respect by inflicting swift and sure consequences when treated in an unacceptable manner.
6. Be empathetic and supportive and loving when your W is hurting.
7. Be stern and firm when she is taking her bad day/bad mood out on you.
8. Be fun to be around. Playful, upbeat, fun and funny.
9. Be around less and make it clear why when you are not being treated fairly.
10. You are allowed to have needs. Express them. You are not allowed to be needy. There is a giant difference between the two.
11. Learn your W. A husband who says "no one can understand women, does not understand his wife. This lack of knowledge is often fatal to the marriage" Pay attention - she is likely fairly consistent.
12. Accept that your W will love you MORE when you assert yourself in a rational, strong, firm and consistent manner.
13. Learn to talk a LOT LESS and communicate much more and much better with body language.


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In my marriage it is 80-20. She gets her way at least 80 percent of the time. Fine by me. The 20 percent is the stuff that matters to me and in those cases we either do it my way or compromise in a way that I am happy with.

I have a simple and common scenario that most of the "nice guys" here simply have totally lost the ability to pull off. When I want to do something "new/different" I always give my W right of first refusal. We went on an extended family (her extended family) vacation a few summers back. I told her in advance that I was going to spend a day white water rafting. Now she has always told me she doesn't like rafting. I told her I would her company if she wanted to give it a shot, but was fine going without her if not.

She chose not to go but didn't for a moment think to try to discourage me from going - because
1. She is a good wife and
2. I would react very badly to her saying she didn't want to go and then trying to convince ME not to go

So my brother in law and I went had a great time. We came back that night and he and I were planning to go kayaking the next day. Funny thing - she asked to come - which was great. She came and we had the best time. He and I tipped over and she didn't. Quite funny really.

Back to being dominant. There are situations where you can only either go left or right. There IS no compromise in those situations. SOMEONE has to dominate. The nice guys posting - they have lost the ability to do that.


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I believe you do need to be sensitive and caring and have a good sense of humor. This is not about that. Because remember - before marriage she was nice BACK. What this is about is how men react when our female partners begin to conduct male "fitness tests" by pushing our boundaries. What would have happened if you had firmly addressed your W's texting behavior when it first started?

I believe women react badly to hearing that something makes you feel bad "after you have already told them once or twice". The first time is key because now they "know" and it is no longer a communication issue it is now a question of whether or not she is going to prioritize your need. I do believe many women respond better to action than words. And the ultimate male behavior women respond most strongly to is NOT anger - it is indifference. They are exceptionally aware of what indifference means to the power dynamic in a relationship. Guys - we aren't ALLOWED to use our physical strength advantage in a relationship which I personally think is a great improvement over historical "rules of engagement". Unless it is an extreme case and she is directly harming your children, highly emotional / verbalized extreme ANGER just conveys: The desperate hurt of a man whose love is overpowering his self control. Big step back. The calm determined mode of "if you do X, I am reluctantly going to have no choice but to do Y" works very well but you have to have the determination to follow through.

For example - I absolutely go into "limited communication" mode when I feel a boundary has been violated. And I don't come out until I get an explanation that makes sense or an apology. And not a "non" apology. I don't respond well to "I am sorry that upset you". Just as I apologize when I am wrong - which is a little bit more than 50 percent of the time . Limited communication is simple, requires no particular verbal skills - it DOES require a willingness to have conflict and to allow conflict to persist and sometimes escalate.

And the one time in our marriage she said she needed "space" I started scheduling long weekend visits with friends and family and began to steadily ramp that up until I heard the magic words "I miss you".

If you asked my W to predict my future marital behavior she would say: "Treated fairly he will NEVER leave and NEVER cheat", "Treated badly - he will either openly take a lover or flat out leave depending on the specifics of the situation".

I would loosely say the same thing in reverse with the exception being that instead of taking a lover I imagine she would simply focus on making my life a non-stop living hell if she felt very badly treated. And if THAT didn't work THEN she would leave me.


In this context - you cannot have daily communication with someone/text them "goodnight" every night when they are having an open ended series of EA's and ever hope to effectively convey indifference.

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"I am the product of thousands of generations of successful male ancestors. When necessary they were totally determined and utterly ruthless. I see no reason to alter a behavioral pattern that has worked so well for so long."


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My ultimate litmus test of where my W's head is at has to do with our sex life. Sorry - but that is a fairly objective measure of how "into you" a woman is. If she is into YOU, she really wants you to be into HER emotionally and the strongest emo glue to use with a man is frequent - good/great sex.

So since we are in the world of total transparency I will share a strange but completely true sequence with you.

Our sex life always ranged from good to great. At times when we were younger and I literally demanded pretty damn near daily sex we had tension - but she wanted to make it all work so she made the effort.

So about 4-5 years ago I was on meds which took the edge of my personality, and then I also stopped lifting, became skinny and our sex life did suffer. Her desire for me dropped in a fairly obvious way. She still made it fun for me, but I could tell her attraction level was seriously impacted - and that sucked. So I made the effort - bulked back up to my normal size which is moderately muscled - I am by no means a steroidal monkey and have never touched a steroid in my life.

So my body get back to "normal" and my aggression levels rose - which she also likes and like magic her desire rebounded.
So everything was good for a couple years and THEN we hired this new guy at the little business we run - well actually she runs it. Nice looking guy, fun to be around. I was doing my normal tech consulting at the time but every week or two I would work a day at our business so I saw the two of them together. I could see there was some chemistry but what the hell - I trust her. And besides I wasn't going to ask her to fire someone because I was insecure. So I just ignored the situation. Over the next couple months she started this whole new routine in bed. More frequent - and starting out with this full body sexualized massage that honestly was even better than the "treatment" I get in Asia when the girls are hoping to get you turned on so you will buy the "happy ending".

And you know - I figured this had to do with some redirected passion. Meaning she was taking her "desire" for him and applying it to me. Thing is - it was like a drug - it was that good. So I just went with the flow - and about a year later she told me that she had gotten a crush on this guy - hey she has nice taste, hell I like the guy. And she went to talk to her priest and he told her that the church needed strong marriages and she took that to mean she should make more of an effort to show her commitment to ME even though she was feeling some desire for him. Anyway when she told me all that I just laughed and said "I trust you - and I just didn't think you would go there so I never worried about it. Well that is not totally true - I upped my "game" a bit during that time but in a gradual way so as to not be obvious.

I don't know what I would have done if she cheated. Probably felt sorry for her knowing how bad she would have felt. I doubt I would have left her. She has given me 21 great years.

If she had started sexually starving me well that would have been a whole different story. As that would have meant she wasn't that into ME. And that would have gotten addressed fast and hard. And resolved in a way I was fully satisfied with. Which might have meant me openly taking a lover. I am not going to be sexually starved and treated as if I have no choice in the matter by the one person in my life who I give 100 percent to.

That is the closest we have come to the edge. FWIW - I don't consider this an EA since they never got into the texting/calling and to my knowledge never blatantly flirted. I think she simply fell for him. Chemistry is not controllable - behavior is.

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I have a label for how people are perceived when they consistently and unconditionally "give" a lot more love than they get (I call this over loving your partner). The label is: inferior

They may NOT be inferior in any way. In fact objectively the opposite is often true. But ultimately the message their partner receives is "I am not worthy - this is how I compensate". And if your partner consistently gets the message that you don't deserve them, you are lost. It may take 5 or 10 years - but it is like acid eventually it eats away the relationship from the inside out.

And I believe most sparky women are wired to "fitness test" us men. Fail a enough tests and they try the ultimate test for healthy couples: demanding celibacy. Fail that test and they are gone - checked out. It may take a long time for them to physically cheat or leave. But a healthy guy in his 30's/40's/50's who tolerates a year of sexlessness has almost certainly presided over the permanent death of his marriage.
Quote:
I slide back in forth between alpha and beta ALL the time. I am not "self aware" of being in beta mode as it is my normal "baseline" state. In "beta" my primary qualities are:
- Being fun/upbeat, pleasant and helpful
- Being entertaining/funny
- Sharing interesting stuff I have recently learned/read. Asking thought provoking questions - to stimulate good conversation
- Being playful - this is a blended state - 50/50 alpha beta

I have a border area around most of my boundaries - I think of this as the DMZ - when someone comes into the DMZ they get my full attention and I calmly ask some questions as they are now nearing a boundary. If the answers are acceptable we move on without incident. If not, I explain how close someone is to an actual boundary. The nice thing about the DMZ is it gives someone a heads up that they are near a place they don't want to be with me. These conversations are characterized by comments like "I am not really comfortable with ..., or as a one off I might shrug and move on but if this were to become a pattern that wouldn't work for me".

If someone blows straight through the DMZ across a boundary then they put me into full blown alpha mode. Which is not yelling, screaming or cursing. It is directly conveying that my problem solving focus is now solely and completely on removing them from inside this boundary and making sure they hesitate before crossing it again.

This approach has served me very well with my superiors at work, and with my boundary pushing high testosterone better half. In both cases I try very hard to ask questions that create a lot of discomfort. "Why would you think I would be ok with THAT?" asked in a tone that blends disbelief and irritation. And when they either try to change the subject or just don't answer I let the silence stretch to a painful degree.

The ONLY place my default behavior is alpha is in bed. Because it seems natural there and it works well.

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One night I was on a long call with a good friend who she doesn't like. He and I talk frequently. She and I did not have plans and frankly she didn't "need" me for anything. But she gave me some direct, angry and aggressive body language which appeared directly related to the call. This is a very rare thing for her to do and - LOL - I have no idea what prompted this particular "boundary test".

I figured "hey why disrupt my call - I am tired of the many comments I hear about how women are so much better at multi-tasking than men". So I multi-tasked. While having a friendly and laugh filled conversation with him I gave her a series of very focused blasts of body language hostility. And she immediately stopped glaring daggers at me.

A half hour later I ended the call. About an hour after that she came up to me and said "are you mad at me?" And I just shrugged, smiled and said "not at all". Now we both knew exactly what had happened. Challenge - response - withdrawal. This is her path. I don't take it personally. This is how she is wired. If she wasn't funny and clever and kind and loving and ....., I might feel differently. But I wouldn't give up one of her pluses to subtract this particular behavior.

I am confident that if I had cut the call short and gone and asked her if she was upset with me it would have reinforced this behavior. Hell - I think even if I cut it short and then we had a major argument it might have reinforced this behavior. Instead - 6+ months later and I have seen no repetition of it.

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My top two:
- Strength training - the goal is to be fit AND have a nice strong upper body. Some women like the giant steroidal gorilla look. Many others are quite happy with a guy looks like a welter weight boxer. I don't take steroids so I did the WW boxer look in my mid 20's and have simply kept it. 6 pack is now a 4 pack - hey at least it hasn't turned into a keg.
- Verbal skills - and my top two there:
1. being funny
2. being able to tease / banter be playful - clever with other people - women get hot watching you skillfully joust with other folks be they men or women

Verbal skills can definitely be greatly improved with practice.
__________________


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I wish my husband would read this.
It's amazing the difference that is made because of a SINGLE conversation in which he has "control of his emotions" (item 1).

He used to be dominant in a very controlled way, and I LOVED that about him. He stood up for himself and was clear about HIS boundaries, AND gave empathy and support when I needed it.

But somewhere along the line, fear and anger clouded out the self-control. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I wish my husband would read this...
> It's amazing the difference that is made because of a SINGLE conversation in which he has "control of his emotions" (item 1).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might want to look up “emotional flooding”.

The pulse rate can jump by 10 within one beat of the heart. 

That’s what emotional flooding does and it’s instantaneous.

It takes a man longer to get his pulse rate back to normal, 20 minutes or more, than it does a woman.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Creda,
I know you love him now. I am pretty sure if he keeps melting down/being mean to you eventually you will end it. 

Just as I am pretty sure that if he gets in control of his emotions 
things will get much better for you. 




credamdóchasgra said:


> I wish my husband would read this...
> It's amazing the difference that is made because of a SINGLE conversation in which he has "control of his emotions" (item 1).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have fallen in deep like with you MEM. I told my husband the gist of your posts. He is not interested in reading what I or anyone else writes. We have decided this is my way of working on me and a sort of diary. But he agrees with your take on emotions and the male /female dynamic. In that I have improved my understanding of relationships and him from reading your post, he does not mind that I like you. ;0))
_Posted via Mobile Device_P


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Thank you, men.

Bob, I am aware of the 20-minute cool-down, but sometimes I need to remind myself of that. Problem is, after he explodes like a big mean bully and I give him 20 minutes, he goes on like nothing happened. He knows that doesn't work for me.

MEM...reading this post reminded me of how he USED to treat me. The way he handled one conversation last night rekindled those old feelings of safety and attraction, and I did my best to show him a direct connection between that behavior and a positive consequence, if you know what I mean 

He always said he likes that I am "Alpha" (though I don't know if he's using the term the same way you do). But sometimes I wonder if he'd be happier with a less opinionated, less neurotic person than I am.

OK, didn't mean to hijack. I hang out in the boys' club because I get insight and man-oriented solutions in my quest to know and love my man. 
Not to mention that I was told *I* need to both "put on my big girl panties," and "man up." 
Apparently I can do both at the same time 

MEM, question: To "turn down the temperature," would a person just look at the "hot/warm" list and do LESS of the things they're doing on that list?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Creda,
Yes - you would do "less" loving things. That reduces the temperature. 

This is actually kind of funny. While I totally love my Alpha / neurotic wife, it took a LONG LONG time for me to learn to stop over reacting to her behaviors/misbehaviors. 




credamdóchasgra said:


> Thank you, men.
> 
> Bob, I am aware of the 20-minute cool-down, but sometimes I need to remind myself of that. Problem is, after he explodes like a big mean bully and I give him 20 minutes, he goes on like nothing happened. He knows that doesn't work for me.
> 
> ...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Creda,
> Yes - you would do "less" loving things. That reduces the temperature.
> 
> This is actually kind of funny. While I totally love my Alpha / neurotic wife, it took a LONG LONG time for me to learn to stop over reacting to her behaviors/misbehaviors.


The entire first year of our relationship, I was a Fitness Test Factory on overdrive. I carried a portable soapbox with me in my purse. (we've only been together 2.5 years)

But now the scene has shifted, and his overbearing "authoritative" posture does not bring us to a happy medium. It just intimidates the attraction right OUT of me.

I am hoping if I am conscious and mellow out, aim to be fair and set at a mid-temperature, and we keep at the counseling, we can get somewhere better.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I just don’t get at all the alpha/beta stuff I read about in threads like these!

For the so called “alpha behaviour” I read about here I’m just interpreting it as “inconsiderate, domineering, controlling, selfish behaviour with a very bad attitude”. That’s not to me what being “alpha” is all about!!!

Bob


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Send him here - have him read some posts about how a man cannot expect a good marriage if he doesn't control his emotions. 

He needs to learn how to "spank" you - your personal version of spanking will vary - when you "provoke" him. 

BUT he also needs to learn to be calm and rational and constructive when he doesn't like what you are asking - but you are not asking for anything that is at all unreasonable. 





credamdóchasgra said:


> The entire first year of our relationship, I was a Fitness Test Factory on overdrive. I carried a portable soapbox with me in my purse. (we've only been together 2.5 years)
> 
> But now the scene has shifted, and his overbearing "authoritative" posture does not bring us to a happy medium. It just intimidates the attraction right OUT of me.
> 
> I am hoping if I am conscious and mellow out, aim to be fair and set at a mid-temperature, and we keep at the counseling, we can get somewhere better.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Send him here - have him read some posts about how a man cannot expect a good marriage if he doesn't control his emotions.


hmmm....at this point, that would constitute me "pushing" him for more "relationship talk," or instructing him. My gut tells me it would be counter-productive at this particular moment. 

I do believe our counselor is steering us/him in the direction of emotional control. thank GOD he goes to counseling with me! (and i purposely found a male counselor) 

MC once a week is a big commitment that we need to, as Conrad said, "emphasize and maximize."


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

MEM your posts are great! Who has the authority to make these things "sticky"?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bob,
Its a "mix" of good behavior and bad. I prefer a smart, aggressive woman. That means you WILL get some bad behavior. Then again there is a huge amount of clever, fun, funny and playful behavior that I just don't think a more passive woman could pull off. 

For me - the "conflict" is exciting - erotic - as long as it doesn't become entirely psychotic. 




AFEH said:


> I just don’t get at all the alpha/beta stuff I read about in threads like these!
> 
> For the so called “alpha behaviour” I read about here I’m just interpreting it as “inconsiderate, domineering, controlling, selfish behaviour with a very bad attitude”. That’s not to me what being “alpha” is all about!!!
> 
> Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Bob, I am aware of the 20-minute cool-down, but sometimes I need to remind myself of that. Problem is, after he explodes like a big mean bully and I give him 20 minutes, he goes on like nothing happened. He knows that doesn't work for me.


Sometimes it takes far longer than 20 minutes, it can take days. Sometimes the pulse rate jumps way more than 10, it can be 30 or 40.

And it all happens so very very quickly and it’s based on so many things that it makes it all so very difficult to “unravel” and understand exactly what happened with the emotions and what the thoughts were that caused them in the first place. That is why it’s called “Flooding”.

Put on top of all that the fact that the number one thing “remembered” about the incident is the “Man’s Anger”.

Try and get passed that anger, try and forget about it for a while. Why? Because your H likely does not know all the thoughts that ran through his mind that caused his anger in the first place, believe it or not.

But if the two of you can, by working together, get to know and understand the thoughts he had in that instantaneous moment when he became emotionally flooded then you will know the route causes of why he responded like he did. And once you know those you may well be able to work on solutions together.

“Emotional Intelligence” Amazon.com: Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ (9780553375060): Daniel Goleman: Books is a good read, especially re emotions in marriage.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Sometimes it takes far longer than 20 minutes, it can take days. Sometimes the pulse rate jumps way more than 10, it can be 30 or 40.
> 
> And it all happens so very very quickly and it’s based on so many things that it makes it all so very difficult to “unravel” and understand exactly what happened with the emotions and what the thoughts were that caused them in the first place. That is why it’s called “Flooding”.
> 
> ...


This sounds very familiar. So, it gives me hope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

MEM, seriously. THAAANK YOUUUU! I'm not in any troubles yet (after 10 years) but reading this stuff has made me more confident. In myself and in my future. 

Now I did do most of the stuff you have written here on the forums, but reading and seeing it explained so clearly made me realize how important that stuff is, and that I actually do it right.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Draguna,
The best thing about guys like you - is that you "are" doing it and you know it works. And your W loves you MORE this way. 




Draguna said:


> MEM, seriously. THAAANK YOUUUU! I'm not in any troubles yet (after 10 years) but reading this stuff has made me more confident. In myself and in my future.
> 
> Now I did do most of the stuff you have written here on the forums, but reading and seeing it explained so clearly made me realize how important that stuff is, and that I actually do it right.


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