# Craving intimacy



## Kamd

Confession - first post. 

Married almost 30 years...my hubs is a great father and a good provider. I love him. But I miss the passion in our relationship. Our sex life has become 100% predictable. We work opposite schedules, so our time together in bed is somewhat limited. But initiating sex has become a struggle. I crave intimacy and feeling truly loved and connected to him. He gets frustrated because he thinks I'm not interested. The truth is I know he is watching live cams and porn. I also know he looks at other women on FB and has had some messaging back and forth with an ex. I've confronted him about these things. At first, he denied it, then he told me if it made me uncomfortable, he would not do it anymore. But I know he is continuing to watch porn. He uses his computer constantly, and a few times, I've checked his internet history. It's deleted. Obviously, he has something to hide from me. I don't think he is physically cheating, as he is always home (especially now during covid). But whatever he is up to is really holding me back from initiating sex, enjoying physical touch. He takes my lack of desire as that I'm not interested or have lost feelings for him. He says he is still attracted to me and loves me, yet we never spend time together doing things as a couple (outside of the bedroom). With his work, he is either on his computer or sleeping. He used to be such a romantic, leaving me cards, bringing flowers, running a bath for me. Now, I don't even feel like we talk about anything other than routine household stuff. There are literally days when we have spoken less that 15 min. When we do have sex, he seems to enjoy it; but I'm always left wanting more. He would like for me to be more aggressive, and I want to be; however, I crave tenderness, romance (sweet words/feelings). I want to feel loved and not just a sexual partner. I've asked for several months, maybe even a few years! I just feel incredibly lonely...he is obviously finding ways to "meet his needs," how do I fulfill my own? Incredibly lonely...


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## Anastasia6

Well when you say meet your own needs I hope you don't mean for connectness, intimacy and sexual fulfillment because that's his job. If he isn't going to do basic stuff like talk with you and have fulfilling sex then what is he doing?

Have you expressed to him your desire for more connectedness? Have you tried inviting him to do thing with you that you both might enjoy? Does he know you aren't happy with the sex? Have you tried toys together? Do you know what you might want to do differently?

Have you both tried counseling. He needs to 'hear' you on the live cam and porn. The live cam is especially egregious to me but I wouldn't like the porn either. The FB old girlfriends is also not marriage behavior. The live cam would have to be paid for. Do you have access to the credit card data? That is an easy way to tell if he is still doing the live cam.

When you say always on his computer, do you work? How are household chores split up? You say it is holding you back from initiating sex. Does he initiate sex?


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## Bobbyjo

Kamd said:


> Confession - first post.
> 
> Married almost 30 years...my hubs is a great father and a good provider. I love him. But I miss the passion in our relationship. Our sex life has become 100% predictable. We work opposite schedules, so our time together in bed is somewhat limited. But initiating sex has become a struggle. I crave intimacy and feeling truly loved and connected to him. He gets frustrated because he thinks I'm not interested. The truth is I know he is watching live cams and porn. I also know he looks at other women on FB and has had some messaging back and forth with an ex. I've confronted him about these things. At first, he denied it, then he told me if it made me uncomfortable, he would not do it anymore. But I know he is continuing to watch porn. He uses his computer constantly, and a few times, I've checked his internet history. It's deleted. Obviously, he has something to hide from me. I don't think he is physically cheating, as he is always home (especially now during covid). But whatever he is up to is really holding me back from initiating sex, enjoying physical touch. He takes my lack of desire as that I'm not interested or have lost feelings for him. He says he is still attracted to me and loves me, yet we never spend time together doing things as a couple (outside of the bedroom). With his work, he is either on his computer or sleeping. He used to be such a romantic, leaving me cards, bringing flowers, running a bath for me. Now, I don't even feel like we talk about anything other than routine household stuff. There are literally days when we have spoken less that 15 min. When we do have sex, he seems to enjoy it; but I'm always left wanting more. He would like for me to be more aggressive, and I want to be; however, I crave tenderness, romance (sweet words/feelings). I want to feel loved and not just a sexual partner. I've asked for several months, maybe even a few years! I just feel incredibly lonely...he is obviously finding ways to "meet his needs," how do I fulfill my own? Incredibly lonely...


Pornography ruins the true intimacy in a marriage. It is a false reality and offers a perverse image of making love. Porn has zero emotion. I don’t blame you for feeling upset about him watching porn when he has you to love him. Sorry guys reading this...but men fall easy to the illusions and escapism of pornography. It isn’t real and gives men this idea of what fun sex should be. I’m wondering what other feelings you might be having about his behaviour. Have you shared with him how this is making you feel?


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## DTO

You shouldn't have to meet your own emotional needs, especially when you're willing to be open with him about what you need. And chatting up exes (people he actually knows IRL) needs to stop. He's probably at least fantasizing about them, which is really bad for your intimacy.

I guess the only question is: if he were focused on you appropriately would the sex get better? I ask because some ladies take the perspective that the guy should be devoted to his wife's needs whether the intimacy is good or not. I understand that perspective but it's not helpful when you want to create a mutually fulfilling experience and one partner is pulling away.

It doesn't sound like that's what is happening here, but it's just food for thought.


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## Kamd

Bobbyjo said:


> Pornography ruins the true intimacy in a marriage. It is a false reality and offers a perverse image of making love. Porn has zero emotion. I don’t blame you for feeling upset about him watching porn when he has you to love him. Sorry guys reading this...but men fall easy to the illusions and escapism of pornography. It isn’t real and gives men this idea of what fun sex should be. I’m wondering what other feelings you might be having about his behaviour. Have you shared with him how this is making you feel?


It's difficult to talk about with him. The only reason I know about the pornography/live cam stuff is because I've been snooping around...checking his computer. He always denies it if I ask him about it, then I have to confess that I've searched his computer. He knows he is caught. I feel so bad confessing my snooping around, but he would never admit to it. The last time I confronted him, he just turned it on me...I'm the one that doesn't seem interested, doesn't meet his needs, doesn't seem to want sex as much as he does, etc...Now, he has just gotten better about hiding it. He deletes his search history. He can spend hours on his computer, and if I check it (when he is not around), there will only be 15 sites or so....whereas normally, there would be 100 or more. It's probably true that the more I think this is happening, the more I withdraw. It's been almost a month now since there has been any real conversation or physical activity between us. This is the longest stretch we've ever had...I'm depressed, hurt, angry.


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## Bobbyjo

Kamd said:


> It's difficult to talk about with him. The only reason I know about the pornography/live cam stuff is because I've been snooping around...checking his computer. He always denies it if I ask him about it, then I have to confess that I've searched his computer. He knows he is caught. I feel so bad confessing my snooping around, but he would never admit to it. The last time I confronted him, he just turned it on me...I'm the one that doesn't seem interested, doesn't meet his needs, doesn't seem to want sex as much as he does, etc...Now, he has just gotten better about hiding it. He deletes his search history. He can spend hours on his computer, and if I check it (when he is not around), there will only be 15 sites or so....whereas normally, there would be 100 or more. It's probably true that the more I think this is happening, the more I withdraw. It's been almost a month now since there has been any real conversation or physical activity between us. This is the longest stretch we've ever had...I'm depressed, hurt, angry.


Him turning things on you is called gaslighting. He is avoiding/deflecting the facts. Facts are facts. You found multiple porn sites searched. Plus he’s clearing the search history. He may continue to lie and avoid the truth...but you know the truth. How does him watching porn make you feel? Is that how you want to feel for years to come? Can you continue to live that way?
I strongly recommend that you tell him in a letter, because of his turning things back on you. If you clearly write down the consequences in your letter if he continues and doesn’t get help...then it could mean the end of the marriage. A wife who never refuses sex to her husband deserves a man who will do the same. Relationships go both ways. He is being selfish and not thinking of you. You deserve more.


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## Mr.Married

I will play devil’s advocate:

So back when he WAS doing all those romantic things , do you think you were meeting HIS needs the way he needed them ?


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## DTO

Mr.Married said:


> I will play devil’s advocate:
> 
> So back when he WAS doing all those romantic things , do you think you were meeting HIS needs the way he needed them ?


Yeah I was thinking the same thing a couple of posts earlier.

To the OP: I asked because sometimes the guy acts out like this because he's unhappy with the frequency and/or quantity of intimacy and doesn't have the courage to address it forthrightly (or thinks the lady won't bother to help fix the problem). It doesn't mean what he did is right; it does indicate, however, what it might take to fix the issue.

Personally, I never did camgirls or cheat on my ex-wife. But I did use porn, because the frequency at which she would provide (average once a month) was not nearly enough for me (or for most men, likely). If this is your situation, you might need to realize that a long-term solution involves better meeting his needs. Then you'd have to decide if that is doable or (alternatively) if that's just not how you want to live your life.

I don't know you personally, but I know from experience that lots of women just don't want to put a lot of effort into sex. Or they resent that sex is not optional / their partner's opinion of them goes down if the sex is bad. So this is just food for thought. While you are right to address his unacceptable behavior, you need to go deeper and figure out what unmet need is driving it and thus what (if anything) you're willing to do to better meet his needs.


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## aaarghdub

Kamd said:


> Confession - first post.
> 
> I crave intimacy and feeling truly loved and connected to him. He gets frustrated because he thinks I'm not interested.
> 
> When we do have sex, he seems to enjoy it; but I'm always left wanting more. He would like for me to be more aggressive, and I want to be; however, I crave tenderness, romance (sweet words/feelings). I want to feel loved and not just a sexual partner.
> 
> I've asked for several months, maybe even a few years! I just feel incredibly lonely...he is obviously finding ways to "meet his needs," how do I fulfill my own? Incredibly lonely...


Honestly, men gauge a women’s passion towards them thru sex. If the construct is “of course I feel that way about you... just don’t make me express it” then the dynamic now is he has to be overt about showing his feelings towards you and he has to take your word for it. And you are expecting him to do it way more often than you are willing to do. I get this from wife a lot and it kills a lot of desire to do the things she wants. 

Any guy can “enjoy sex” but ejaculating does not mean he feels connected. I’ll be honest, most guys getting regular sex with someone projecting that they are into them, hungry for them and make sex something they’re both invested and excited about will get whatever romantic connection they want from their husbands. That’s the side effect of the dopamine and oxytocin released during sex. If you require him to start first, you’re gonna be stuck where your at. If you show him you love him like a family member and not a lover expect to get treated like a family member (which you are) since he’s chosen to get his dopamine hit elsewhere. 

Now WRT the porn stuff. Yeah he pretty much f’d that up and needs to realize the emotional destruction it’s causing. Might be time for marriage counseling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CatholicDad

Mr.Married said:


> I will play devil’s advocate:
> 
> So back when he WAS doing all those romantic things , do you think you were meeting HIS needs the way he needed them ?


You’re insinuating that his porn and web cam use are her fault (just like hubby was).

In reality, hubby has committed a form of adultery and likely continues to do so- and is hiding it.


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## DTO

CatholicDad said:


> You’re insinuating that his porn and web cam use are her fault (just like hubby was).
> 
> In reality, hubby has committed a form of adultery and likely continues to do so- and is hiding it.


That's not it. They both have some blame here. Of course, the hubby's porn use is a problem, but we don't know if that's in a vacuum or what's driving that.

Let's say, for instance, that the hubby's actions are driven by a sexless or near-sexless marriage. If that is the case, even if the porn use stopped 100%, we would still have the underlying lack of sex to deal with; stopping the porn would not resolve their issues.

The reality is that men turn to porn because their wives are shutting them down at home - not occasionally, but consistently over a substantial period of time. Fixing this sort of problem requires behavioral changes from both partners.

ETA: there just isn't enough information to say that stopping the porn and webcams will fix the problem. I especially picked up on the OP saying that the sex life doesn't excite her and is predictable. That to me is a red flag. Is it really the case that her husband spontaneously checked out of sex with a wife who provides it with plenty of frequency, variety, and spice? Perhaps.

But that's not the usual case. The norm is more like the wife tends to ratchet down sex – cutting down frequency, variety, etc. and expects the guy to accept the slowdown as the new normal without any corresponding decrease in the guy’s attention and care.


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## aaarghdub

Kamd said:


> But whatever he is up to is really holding me back from initiating sex, enjoying physical touch. He takes my lack of desire as that I'm not interested or have lost feelings for him. He says he is still attracted to me and loves me, yet we never spend time together doing things as a couple (outside of the bedroom).


When a man gets the vibe she’s just not into him physically/sexually he becomes less motivated towards her as that is the barometer for the relationship. He’s stuck because it’s a chicken-and-the-egg thing... he has to work harder for the sex he wants. When a woman gets the vibe he’s not into sex/touch she sees it’s a slap in the face. Honestly, there is a lot less work a woman has to do if she wants sex. She just has to mentally loadshed enough to be open to the idea of sex.

I went back and reread the original post. I noticed a bunch of “he’s not” and “he used to” statements but nothing besides you have sex but aren’t into it. That and you aren’t doing anything else besides putting together a case to take to the grand jury. Are you being honest about your roll in him pulling away? Three points...

1) The main thing guys get from porn is seeing what they themselves wish, to be the object of desire from a woman that feels passionate not only about them but about sex in general. And too boot very little effort required on his end nor any hang ups, constraints or mental loadshedding. Now that being said, what he is doing is shady and undermining trust... no doubt. The more angry and spiteful you get the more he’ll go underground and push you away.

2) So what are YOU doing to date your husband? Are you presenting something worth desiring? I think a lot of people forget to ask themselves this question. You care when you’re dating but not once your married. All this stuff he used to do are you reciprocating? Your disappointment, complaining and “hoop jumping” is competing against other women’s freely-given interest in him even though it’s streamed/fake/paid for.

3) What other stuff do you want to do together? Is it just stuff YOU want to do but he has no interest in?

Seek counseling and broach this with a third-party. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

CatholicDad said:


> You’re insinuating that his porn and web cam use are her fault (just like hubby was).
> 
> In reality, hubby has committed a form of adultery and likely continues to do so- and is hiding it.


I don't think @Mr.Married is.

He's simply opening the larger picture for a wider view to shine some light on a number of potential issues in the relationship challenges.

Very rarely do all the smaller problems that create the larger problems stem just from one side.

And only one side's perspective is shown so far here. Nothing against OP in any way at all she may absolutely have it right.

Consider this; in ltr relationships it's known that all issues are rarely caused by one party, wouldn't you agree?


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## CatholicDad

It’s a despicable argument to say or insinuate that his web cam, porn, and messaging ladies is her fault.


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## Spicy

OP, do *you *feel his web cam/porn use is cheating?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

CatholicDad said:


> It’s a despicable argument to say or insinuate that his web cam, porn, and messaging ladies is her fault.


No, I'm clearly stating what we're reading is likely one problem in a group of problems, to reach this level of relationship difficulties. 

If I had wanted to say this was all the OPs fault that's what I would have said.


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## CatholicDad

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, I'm clearly stating what we're reading is likely one problem in a group of problems, to reach this level of relationship difficulties.
> 
> If I had wanted to say this was all the OPs fault that's what I would have said.


I think in your/Mr.Married’s opinion- porn and web cam sex is justified if wives aren’t performing like porn queens.

I mean, the OP came here saying she was craving intimacy...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Who mentioned web-cam sex? That's a no, not good action imo.


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## Kamd

Well, it has been a while...nothing new here other than I had the same conversation last night that I had 9 months ago...called him out for continuing to watch porn/hide/delete internet history. I've tried to be more available which is hard to do with adult kids living at home, his working from home (midnight shift), and me working days out of the house. When I leave, I get all suspicious that he is home alone and enjoying the internet - and when/if I check, I'm usually right. Lately, we've been on each other's last nerve - I feel lonely and my guard is way up, although he did not know why until last night. Three weeks ago, we had a great time in bed together and we both really enjoyed it and I felt like maybe my worries were all in my head. But the very next day, he was watching some pretty hardcore stuff. Why am I not enough? I feel betrayed. He says he watches because I don't act like I want him anymore. I'm withdrawing because he's getting off with in own little world. 

After he criticized me last night for a really trivial thing, all the feels came welling up inside me. After a few hours of the silent treatment (from both of us), I finally just ripped the band aid off and told him I had snooped around on his computer and knew he was still watching porn/deleting his history. Crickets. 

Finally he mumbled some remarks about me not showing an interest for months! (Remember that 3 week trist I mentioned above?). I let him know how I felt about that - we had a fun time together and 24 hours later....how soon he forgets. I told him I felt hurt, betrayed, crushed...I'll never be enough and I feel like a failure, alone, and sad. He didn't want to talk and fell asleep. I was up half the night (and sleeping in another room) thinking...how do we fix our marriage? Can I ever measure up? Feel secure? 

When I came home from work today, we talked briefly and he promised he was going to change. He said he was sorry he hurt me, but I don't act like I love him. When I told him how lonely I've been for MONTHS, he said he was the lonely one. So I showed him this post! I wanted him to know this wasn't a new thing for me (or him). Of course, he was glad to see comments above that supported him!

I feel one of our biggest issues is time. He works nights; I work days - and we have been on this schedule for 22 years. As our kids have grown, we both live in the same house but are living separate lives. He's not interested in changing his schedule and I don't have the option. I read an article (and showed it to him too) about "micro-cheating." Out of the 10 types of cheating (that did not involve sex), I think 5 applied to him...(keeping secrets, porn, talking with an ex, primary loyalty elsewhere, insincere apology)...

Any advice is appreciated. I guess my biggest question is can we get past this? How do I rebuild trust in an hour per day? Do I just give up and pretend this is enough...


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## Blondilocks

Well, you don't have a husband. You have a roommate with the occasional benefit. And, that's the way he likes it. If you want an actual partner, you're going to have to look elsewhere. Kids are grown so what's keeping you around?

You'll have an easier time finding a new partner than he will.


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## lifeistooshort

I find it interesting that I'm seeing comments about her role in the disintegration of the marriage and how porn use can come from this, but we'd never see this line if thinking if he was seeing another woman....even though the logic could still hold.

Somehow porn has come to be seen as at best a right and at worst not such a big deal....but to those who view channeling sexual energy elsewhere cheating its not much different from seeing another person.

I'm not trying to make an argument one way or the other....just pointing out as food for thought that it's being insinuated that he's not fully responsible for his choice to jerk off to porn because she's contributing to that dynamic but if he'd found another woman the marital dynamic would then have no bearing on his decision to look elsewhere.

Because a cheaters decision to cheat is always on them.

So which is it? Are we responsible for our own behavior or are we not?


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## woodyh

Kamd said:


> Well, it has been a while...nothing new here other than I had the same conversation last night that I had 9 months ago...called him out for continuing to watch porn/hide/delete internet history. I've tried to be more available which is hard to do with adult kids living at home, his working from home (midnight shift), and me working days out of the house. When I leave, I get all suspicious that he is home alone and enjoying the internet - and when/if I check, I'm usually right. Lately, we've been on each other's last nerve - I feel lonely and my guard is way up, although he did not know why until last night. Three weeks ago, we had a great time in bed together and we both really enjoyed it and I felt like maybe my worries were all in my head. But the very next day, he was watching some pretty hardcore stuff. Why am I not enough? I feel betrayed. He says he watches because I don't act like I want him anymore. I'm withdrawing because he's getting off with in own little world.
> 
> After he criticized me last night for a really trivial thing, all the feels came welling up inside me. After a few hours of the silent treatment (from both of us), I finally just ripped the band aid off and told him I had snooped around on his computer and knew he was still watching porn/deleting his history. Crickets.
> 
> Finally he mumbled some remarks about me not showing an interest for months! (Remember that 3 week trist I mentioned above?). I let him know how I felt about that - we had a fun time together and 24 hours later....how soon he forgets. I told him I felt hurt, betrayed, crushed...I'll never be enough and I feel like a failure, alone, and sad. He didn't want to talk and fell asleep. I was up half the night (and sleeping in another room) thinking...how do we fix our marriage? Can I ever measure up? Feel secure?
> 
> When I came home from work today, we talked briefly and he promised he was going to change. He said he was sorry he hurt me, but I don't act like I love him. When I told him how lonely I've been for MONTHS, he said he was the lonely one. So I showed him this post! I wanted him to know this wasn't a new thing for me (or him). Of course, he was glad to see comments above that supported him!
> 
> I feel one of our biggest issues is time. He works nights; I work days - and we have been on this schedule for 22 years. As our kids have grown, we both live in the same house but are living separate lives. He's not interested in changing his schedule and I don't have the option. I read an article (and showed it to him too) about "micro-cheating." Out of the 10 types of cheating (that did not involve sex), I think 5 applied to him...(keeping secrets, porn, talking with an ex, primary loyalty elsewhere, insincere apology)...
> 
> Any advice is appreciated. I guess my biggest question is can we get past this? How do I rebuild trust in an hour per day? Do I just give up and pretend this is enough...


I highly recommend trying to get work schedules more the same. I know working shift work is hard on a marriage and if you have different schedules all the time, it is very difficult to have a good relationship. He probably misses you too and with limited time together, finds relief in porn and masturbation. He is very unlikely to stop with the current work schedules. My wife and I developed a couple of rules about sex, no porn and masturbation is ok as long as the other one knows about it FIRST. Basically, you need to offer a sexual experience to your spouse first, before you decide to masturbate on your own. We do that with no exceptions.


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## AVR1962

It seriously is not easy in long term relationships. It takes alot of giving, alot of forgiving and sometimes we just reach a point that we cannot whether man or woman. Being married for 30 years I think you already understand how much propping and admiration a man needs. It does not stop with time, age and maturity and if you really think about it we like the same also. A man's dedication to his being able to provide for his family financial is very important to him and this sometimes we neglect to give appreciation for (because many of us are juggling to hold careers and keep everyone in the family happy) but this is very important to men. Every man has a hunger that needs feeding whether it is his need for you to laugh at his jokes, or see his big muscles, or take note of how wise he is. on the flip side each of ladies has that need also, something feeds us also. What is it that he needs from you? and no it is not all about sex. He might just need your adoration. Men cave when they feel they are not good enough just like we retreat when we do not feel good about ourselves. 

Can you still give this man praise? Can you let go of your own hurts and shine a light on him? 

Porn is an evil for men but I have found that there are men who can view it and crave their female partner and in that case porn is just a release. There are other men who have trouble with intimacy and relationships with women and turn to porn rather than their partner. I am assuming from your post your husband is the first statement mentioned concerning porn, trust me, that is good!!!!!!! 

Remember too that us ladies flourish with positive, so do men. Make it fun, enjoy life, try something new but do not tell him he is not meeting your needs and do not condemn his efforts. Think how you would feel if he complained to you. Positive goes a long way!!! (I was married for 24 years, with my ex for 27 years, so I do understand).


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## Kamd

It's been six more months since my last post and honestly, nothing much has changed. I've really tried to be more available sexually, although this is still hard with our opposite schedules. We've always been more intimate on the weekends, when we actually get to be in the same bed together. Just sort of the routine, especially since one of the adult kids works from home during the day. 

Can I give this man praise? (asked above) Yes. It is easy to brag on him to others for all of his admirable qualities...great father, good provider, smart, handsome. Can I let go of the hurt? Hasn't happened yet. I have my moments. We'll have a good weekend, great sex, a dinner date, some conversation...I'll let myself believe I can trust...then my intuition tells me - check the computer...and bam, more deleted history, hours on the internet, and just recently, I found an encrypted flash drive. 

This is doing a number on me. 

What is on that flash drive that he has gone to great lengths to hide from me? 

I hate that my trust is being toyed with. As a wife, I want to feel like his #1 - in and out of the bedroom. If he put the time into me that he is putting elsewhere, I'd be thrilled. Instead, I'm sinking into a deep depression. I come home after working all day and immediately my guard is up...he's had the house to himself all day. I know he will sleep part of the day, but I'm also hoping he started dinner, washed a few dishes, cleaned something...instead, the house is exactly like I left it because he has been on his computer all day with chunks of time deleted in the history. He'll order dinner or offer to take me out. He's recently lost 25 pounds. He knows I'm trying to lose a few pounds too, but he does his own thing - making shakes, fixing his own meals, working out. I'd like to do these things too, preferably together. I get so frustrated when I come home and the things he said he would do are left undone (household things) but he has worked out and spent the rest of his waking hours on his computer. 

The post above suggested I make life fun...how? Hey - hope you got to look at other women today and enjoy a good workout! Let me wash your gym clothes for you so you can do it again tomorrow.

I keep telling myself I just need to let the house/laundry go - no one else seems to worry and we never have anyone over anyway. 

Will I be more fun in a less clean house? 
Will I be more fun if I lose 10 pounds? 
Will I be more fun if I look at other men when my husband is not available?
Will I be more fun if I keep all this on an encrypted flash drive?

If I confront him about the flash drive, what other lengths will he take to hide stuff from me? It's super hard to be positive, and sexy, and turned on, and fun....when I am feeling none of those things right now.


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## In Absentia

Kamd said:


> It's been six more months since my last post and honestly, nothing much has changed. I've really tried to be more available sexually, although this is still hard with our opposite schedules. We've always been more intimate on the weekends, when we actually get to be in the same bed together. Just sort of the routine, especially since one of the adult kids works from home during the day.
> 
> Can I give this man praise? (asked above) Yes. It is easy to brag on him to others for all of his admirable qualities...great father, good provider, smart, handsome. Can I let go of the hurt? Hasn't happened yet. I have my moments. We'll have a good weekend, great sex, a dinner date, some conversation...I'll let myself believe I can trust...then my intuition tells me - check the computer...and bam, more deleted history, hours on the internet, and just recently, I found an encrypted flash drive.
> 
> This is doing a number on me.
> 
> What is on that flash drive that he has gone to great lengths to hide from me?
> 
> I hate that my trust is being toyed with. As a wife, I want to feel like his #1 - in and out of the bedroom. If he put the time into me that he is putting elsewhere, I'd be thrilled. Instead, I'm sinking into a deep depression. I come home after working all day and immediately my guard is up...he's had the house to himself all day. I know he will sleep part of the day, but I'm also hoping he started dinner, washed a few dishes, cleaned something...instead, the house is exactly like I left it because he has been on his computer all day with chunks of time deleted in the history. He'll order dinner or offer to take me out. He's recently lost 25 pounds. He knows I'm trying to lose a few pounds too, but he does his own thing - making shakes, fixing his own meals, working out. I'd like to do these things too, preferably together. I get so frustrated when I come home and the things he said he would do are left undone (household things) but he has worked out and spent the rest of his waking hours on his computer.
> 
> The post above suggested I make life fun...how? Hey - hope you got to look at other women today and enjoy a good workout! Let me wash your gym clothes for you so you can do it again tomorrow.
> 
> I keep telling myself I just need to let the house/laundry go - no one else seems to worry and we never have anyone over anyway.
> 
> Will I be more fun in a less clean house?
> Will I be more fun if I lose 10 pounds?
> Will I be more fun if I look at other men when my husband is not available?
> Will I be more fun if I keep all this on an encrypted flash drive?
> 
> If I confront him about the flash drive, what other lengths will he take to hide stuff from me? It's super hard to be positive, and sexy, and turned on, and fun....when I am feeling none of those things right now.


Well, it sounds like he still doing it. Sorry. Can't be fun. I would confront him.


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## Lakesparrow

Kamd said:


> It's been six more months since my last post and honestly, nothing much has changed. I've really tried to be more available sexually, although this is still hard with our opposite schedules. We've always been more intimate on the weekends, when we actually get to be in the same bed together. Just sort of the routine, especially since one of the adult kids works from home during the day.
> 
> Can I give this man praise? (asked above) Yes. It is easy to brag on him to others for all of his admirable qualities...great father, good provider, smart, handsome. Can I let go of the hurt? Hasn't happened yet. I have my moments. We'll have a good weekend, great sex, a dinner date, some conversation...I'll let myself believe I can trust...then my intuition tells me - check the computer...and bam, more deleted history, hours on the internet, and just recently, I found an encrypted flash drive.
> 
> This is doing a number on me.
> 
> What is on that flash drive that he has gone to great lengths to hide from me?
> 
> I hate that my trust is being toyed with. As a wife, I want to feel like his #1 - in and out of the bedroom. If he put the time into me that he is putting elsewhere, I'd be thrilled. Instead, I'm sinking into a deep depression. I come home after working all day and immediately my guard is up...he's had the house to himself all day. I know he will sleep part of the day, but I'm also hoping he started dinner, washed a few dishes, cleaned something...instead, the house is exactly like I left it because he has been on his computer all day with chunks of time deleted in the history. He'll order dinner or offer to take me out. He's recently lost 25 pounds. He knows I'm trying to lose a few pounds too, but he does his own thing - making shakes, fixing his own meals, working out. I'd like to do these things too, preferably together. I get so frustrated when I come home and the things he said he would do are left undone (household things) but he has worked out and spent the rest of his waking hours on his computer.
> 
> The post above suggested I make life fun...how? Hey - hope you got to look at other women today and enjoy a good workout! Let me wash your gym clothes for you so you can do it again tomorrow.
> 
> I keep telling myself I just need to let the house/laundry go - no one else seems to worry and we never have anyone over anyway.
> 
> Will I be more fun in a less clean house?
> Will I be more fun if I lose 10 pounds?
> Will I be more fun if I look at other men when my husband is not available?
> Will I be more fun if I keep all this on an encrypted flash drive?
> 
> If I confront him about the flash drive, what other lengths will he take to hide stuff from me? It's super hard to be positive, and sexy, and turned on, and fun....when I am feeling none of those things right now.


I've been in similar shoes. 26 years, mostly on different shifts. Adult kids at home. Responsible for the household load. Gaslit so much I don't even cry anymore. A year ago or so I was trying to fix it to figure it out and in much pain. No sex for 7 months when I stopped initiating (I'm pretty hot, open-minded and love sex). I listened to "Too good to leave Too bad to stay" the book, and determined there was love left on the table and I should try. So I did really try hard. And a year later I'm drained, hurt, numb, disgusted and I'm not in love with him. I loved who he was and what I hoped he was. I wish I could say you'll have a better outcome. But w his weight loss and disinterest and web cams and chatting with "old girlfriends" I'd bet your husband has a ho on the horizon. (Another fun debacle I got through ten years ago). I hope you focus on you for a change and do some self care. Get a massage from a male therapist and remember how strong and healing a man's touch can be. Glam yourself up and go do stuff for you to remember you are not a consolation prize for your roomie hubby. I don't know where things go after that. But I suspect if you stay on this trajectory they won't change. I know how much you're hurting. I'm so sorry 💔


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## Sfort

Quit your job, unless it's more important to you than your marriage.


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## PieceOfSky

Kamd said:


> The last time I confronted him, he just turned it on me...I'm the one that doesn't seem interested, doesn't meet his needs, doesn't seem to want sex as much as he does, etc...


I’d ask him, “What do you propose we do about it?”


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## PieceOfSky

Kamd said:


> I've really tried to be more available sexually, …


Mind clarifying what you mean by that?

Is he available?

What does initiation look like, from whomever does the initiation? Does either of you reject the other, or broadcast disinterest?


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## PieceOfSky

If this is who he is, do you like him? Has he been willing to engage on closing the gap between you and him in any way, or does he just stonewall and evade and gaslight enough you and your concerns go away for awhile? If no engagement, why do you accept do little for yourself.


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## Kamd

Sfort said:


> Quit your job, unless it's more important to you than your marriage.


Quit my job to babysit my adult husband? He has the option to change shifts.


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## Kamd

PieceOfSky said:


> Mind clarifying what you mean by that?
> 
> Is he available?
> 
> What does initiation look like, from whomever does the initiation? Does either of you reject the other, or broadcast disinterest?


With our opposite schedules, sex usually only happens on the weekend. Even though I often only feel like the vessel for him, I have been very much aware of still saying yes, being open to his touch, and not shutting down. For months, I've shared with him - I want emotional intimacy...we hardly see each other during the week and when we do have sex, it has become just that....sex. No I love you's or sweet words. He has become much more physical...


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## Kamd

So I confronted him.

I tried to be somewhat nonchalant about it...he was talking about his schedule and I told him I wanted him to change shifts. He doesn't want to do this because he makes more working off shifts, but I argued that it works for him. But it no longer works for me....that I knew he was still watching porn and that I had found an encrypted flash drive. 

Crickets.

Then he says well that flash drive is old, and it just has our financial documents on it. You should know that password.

Lies.

Fortunately I had taken a pic to prove what I had seen on the drive and I showed him.

He still countered the drive was old and he just hadn't seen it in a while. So I told him, I wanted him to show me and open up the drive. I fully expected us to continue the conversation later in the day when we had more time, but instead, he fell asleep. I knew he was tired, but I just don't understand how someone can sleep knowing your spouse is about to explode lying next to you. He just didn't want to bother.

The next morning, as I was leaving for work, I reminded him that he still needed to show me the drive. But that now, I would have my doubts since I knew he would alter it the moment I left. AND HE DID. 

When I got home, I found the drive and popped it in. Every file says modified on...11/11/21.... So now, I have even bigger problems. I'll never know what he was hiding because he will never be able to prove anything. Now I can't trust him even more. He lied to me. Every time I've confronted him, he makes promises and then evades. Don't know which is worse...being married to someone who lies to my face or someone who is hiding things. Have spent the past 2 days not speaking to him. I just have no words...


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## Blondilocks

Your husband values money more than your marriage.


Kamd said:


> I just have no words...


Yes, you do - "I'm filing for divorce".


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## Bulfrog1987

Bobbyjo said:


> Him turning things on you is called gaslighting. He is avoiding/deflecting the facts. Facts are facts. You found multiple porn sites searched. Plus he’s clearing the search history. He may continue to lie and avoid the truth...but you know the truth. How does him watching porn make you feel? Is that how you want to feel for years to come? Can you continue to live that way?
> I strongly recommend that you tell him in a letter, because of his turning things back on you. If you clearly write down the consequences in your letter if he continues and doesn’t get help...then it could mean the end of the marriage. A wife who never refuses sex to her husband deserves a man who will do the same. Relationships go both ways. He is being selfish and not thinking of you. You deserve more.


This right is here is the best reply I've read thus far. I'm in something similar, however my husband wants sex whenever possible and I don't deny him. But sadly it's him using my body for his pleasure and when he's done he is good. I'm totally disconnected and he is fine with that. He has emotionally starved me for so long, there's nothing left and I just don't care anymore. He gaslit me each time I tried to be open and honest and I just gave up. He's a pitiful excuse for a man and your own husband is being a total coward as well.

Write the letter, draw a line and move on if he can't meet you in the middle.


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## Sfort

Kamd said:


> Quit my job to babysit my adult husband? He has the option to change shifts.


Quitting your job solves your time and schedule problems. It will do nothing to help your situation that you refer to as "babysitting" your husband. Since he has the option to change shifts, why hasn't he done so?


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## Kamd

Well looks like I have another update, and it is a doozie....

He has been cheating for 8 years!

Found pictures and videos...remember my very first post where I stated he was messaging an ex on FB. Well - they were doing more than texting...sending nude pics, videos, and just last weekend, he took pics of her giving him a blow job while I was visiting our college kid.

It's been 24 hours since I discovered the pics on his iPad and I go from totally numb to shaking uncontrollably to utter heartbreak. 

He says it was just a physical thing and I've always been his soul mate. He doesn't want to leave me. He has agreed to counseling and we have already made an appointment. 

Am I a damn fool or what? I love him, but 8 years of lies and cheating. I don't want to be a lonely, middle aged woman starting over. We have a history, kids (although mostly grown)...I have no other family nearby. I am beyond crushed.

In a moment of complete bravado, I stormed out of the house, drove to the other woman's house (at 7AM), and showed the pics to her husband...he was totally clueless. He and I have met twice, mostly to try to untangle all the lies. He has no interest in reconciling, admitting his marriage has been a disaster.

My husband is trying to be nice - bought me flowers, has spent hours talking, crying... I have barely eaten in 2 days and have not slept all week. All I can think is 8 years!


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## Openminded

Long-term cheaters — and I was married to one — don’t want a divorce. They want the “good little wife” at home and they want fun and excitement on the side. I was married for decades and late in life got out when I realized their affair had resumed (or maybe never stopped — who knows). I think you’ll stay but I don’t recommend it. Reconciliation is the most difficult thing you will ever do. I wish you the best going forward.


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## SunCMars

He has left, yet still remains.

He is a man of pedantic routine, not one of romance.

He enjoys his alone time because you are not there to remind him he is married.

He sees you as someone who stays his hand, when it could be busy shaking.

He is wed to naked images on the screen. 

He is just another porn addict.

Sorry, this has become a widespread concern.
Yes.



_Are Dee-_


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## Personal

That sucks @Kamd, though it won't feel like it right now. There is life after divorce (and please do divorce him).

However when going forward, please don't settle for less and rely on hopium. If you find yourself starved of intimacy and affection in a sexual relationship, since that's natures way of telling you to let them go.


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## Bulfrog1987

Kamd said:


> Well looks like I have another update, and it is a doozie....
> 
> He has been cheating for 8 years!
> 
> Found pictures and videos...remember my very first post where I stated he was messaging an ex on FB. Well - they were doing more than texting...sending nude pics, videos, and just last weekend, he took pics of her giving him a blow job while I was visiting our college kid.
> 
> It's been 24 hours since I discovered the pics on his iPad and I go from totally numb to shaking uncontrollably to utter heartbreak.
> 
> He says it was just a physical thing and I've always been his soul mate. He doesn't want to leave me. He has agreed to counseling and we have already made an appointment.
> 
> Am I a damn fool or what? I love him, but 8 years of lies and cheating. I don't want to be a lonely, middle aged woman starting over. We have a history, kids (although mostly grown)...I have no other family nearby. I am beyond crushed.
> 
> In a moment of complete bravado, I stormed out of the house, drove to the other woman's house (at 7AM), and showed the pics to her husband...he was totally clueless. He and I have met twice, mostly to try to untangle all the lies. He has no interest in reconciling, admitting his marriage has been a disaster.
> 
> My husband is trying to be nice - bought me flowers, has spent hours talking, crying... I have barely eaten in 2 days and have not slept all week. All I can think is 8 years!


I'm all for reconciling when both parties are on board, when the wrong parties can accept accountability, so on and so forth. This however, 8 years. People make mistakes, AN affair is one thing, but 8 years? I can't stress enough that this is not the time to be weak and broken and desperate for your husband to want you or whatever. 

No one wants to be middle aged and starting over. I'm not quite middle age and I don't even want to start over after 15 years. I get it. But you have been this miserable for so long and it's time to pull that plug sister. Agree with another responder that you'll probably stay, I don't judge you because I'm still in a terrible marriage myself. However, I'm taking the steps to be able to leave. Hell I WISH my husband would, it would make it so much easier to be like BYE. I think you can do better even being on your own, you've basically been alone all this time anyway. You can do it and you will be the better for it!


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## oldshirt

OUCH! 

8 years isn't an affair. It's a double life. 

And in the mean time you have been pleading for attention and intimacy. 

I agree with Bullfrog above, you have already been on your own, you just didn't realise it at the time. 

Look at it this way, even if you don't find Mr Right and ride off into the sunset immediately, the guys you go out with on a dinner date would at least be present with you in the moment and you would have their attention. And if you hit it off and clicked, they would probably be craving intimacy with you and would bring their A-Game and be very appreciative. That's more than what you have gotten over the past 8 years. 

But I'll go back to what I said above, this isn't just an affair, it's fraud. You got duped by a conman. This is what often happens to men with cheating wives. You were the steady, dependable domestic partner that managed the homefront while he got his kicks and jollies elsewhere while you went without. 

And for 8 years he blew you off and pooh pooh'd you and said all was well. 

I get it, you want what you thought you had. You want to believe this is fixable. You'll let him cry and you'll listen to his excuses and cover stories and you'll go to marriage counseling where the counselor will tell you how to communicate and problem solve and the counselor will tell you how your role played into his living a double life with another woman blah blah blah. 

You may even have a period of Hysterical Bonding (look it up if you aren't familiar with that term) where you try to 'F' the memory of the other woman out of his system. 

But one day you'll wake up and realise that you simply no longer love or respect him or see him as special, or even see him as a positive force in your life anymore. You'll realise he is like that carton of milk in the refridgerator that has gone sour. You just won't want him anymore.


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## HappilyMarried1

So sorry @Kamd aa I was reading the entire thread I had my suspicions and when you mentioned the encrypted drive I was pretty certain. I know you don’t want to hear this but there was probably times she has been in you house while you are at work during the day. Best of luck! I hope he will change but based on the history you have detailed I don’t think he will long term especially if the OW and her husband divorce.


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## moulinyx

Wow. Wow!

He is a pig. Of course this was the case! He was emotionally unavailable because he already had his needs met. I am so disgusted for you.

Hoping you find some peace. Don’t wait around for him to do it again - he is sick.


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## happiness27

Your post sounds so familiar to me...the spouse seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere...the turning the discussion around to being your fault...rather than leaning into you and seeking a way to be a loving, intimate partner.


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