# New here! Need to vent and open to advice!



## ConflictedEverything

The last 7 weeks have been nuts and I'm so glad that I found this forum because I think it's exactly what I need. This will be lengthy because I need to get it all off my chest.

Seven weeks ago I learned my husband of nearly 3 years (together for 7) was bisexual. One night he was in the hot tub, which he occasionally went in by himself (too hot for me to go in during the summer). I poked my head outside (pitch black, couldn't see anything) and jokingly said "whatcha doing?" and the way he said "nothing" just sounded _off_. So I went inside and turned on the tv to check the cameras that we have around our house. It was then I saw him taking photos of himself. I'm not sure what language is allowed on this site, so lets just say it was from the waist down, both sides of his body. I couldn't believe it. I sat on our bed in stunned silence. He was cheating on me. We don't share pictures like that. I didn't know what to do. I was frozen. He eventually moved to a corner of the hot tub that I couldn't see on the camera, and then later to the pool where we didn't have a camera. He was outside for about an hour. I pretended to be asleep when he came back inside. He took a shower and came to bed. I didn't sleep much and silently cried half the night. I got up early to get some work done. After he left for work, I watched the camera from the time he went outside to the time he came back in and that's when I learned he had a 2nd phone. I was devastated. 

Here's the thing, about 4 years ago I could've sworn I saw another phone on the floor lit up. It was night, I didn't have my glasses on or contacts in. I can't even remember if this was the middle of the night or if we were just about to turn in (lights off, tv off). I said "is that a phone?" he denied it, said there was nothing there, said I was crazy. I _felt_ crazy. He hid whatever it was that was on the floor. I never saw it again. I tried withholding sex until he told me what it was. I told my sister that I was paranoid and she basically said I was going to make myself crazy and I need to just trust him since I wasn't confident to begin with in what I saw.

Fast forward to the day after the hot tub incident. I called my sister. She remembered the issue from years ago. She was pissed for me. I cried on the phone with her. After that, I texted my boss that I needed a personal day and I crawled back into bed. I couldn't focus on anything and the images from the camera kept replaying in my head. I cried and I slept all day. I ignored his texts, told him I was swamped with work. I also made a plan to confront him when he got home from work. He walked in the door, completely unaware there was an issue. Our son (18mo) was playing on the living room floor, he sat on the couch. He said "is something wrong?" Everything suddenly became very loud in my head during the few seconds I took to answer him. I said "are you cheating on me?" His face got serious and he said "No." Right before I started to cry I said "Then what was that in the hot tub last night?" After a minute to gather his thoughts, he confessed. He said "it's not what you think..." I said "I'm listening." He told me he took an old phone and downloaded Grindr. He said he's attracted to men and talking to them on the app excited him. He said he didn't do it all the time, just every so often when he was bored. I asked if it was every time he went in the hot tub and he said no. I asked if he had a 2nd phone 4 years ago and he said yes. He swore up and down that he's never met anyone and didn't share pics of his face.

Throughout the night he volunteered information or if I asked, he answered (I believe) truthfully. I asked him if he could stop and he said yes. The thought of losing me and our son terrified him. I asked him to get rid of the phone and he said he would. I thought about asking to see the phone but I chose not to. I asked if he had ever been with a man and he said when we first started dating a guy at the gym went down on him. He also said some guys at the gym will leave their shower curtains open during their showers so others can watch. He suggested counseling and I agreed. I asked him not to go to the gym until after we started and he agreed. 

It's been 2 of the most stressful months of life. Earlier that week, a pet was sick and in the hospital for 3 days. The day of the incident, we closed on our house sale and were supposed to go to a celebratory dinner the night I confronted him. We were packing for our move, and closed on our home purchase the following week. Since then, we've gone to counseling every 2 weeks or so. I told him in the beginning that I was scared that going to counseling would actually make him want to explore that side of himself more. 

The crazy thing is, within a few days, I felt like things were back to normal. Those videos are burned into my brain but I don't cry about them anymore. We're back to the way we were... even having sex. I didn't let him touch me after this all first happened. After a couple weeks, we kissed. It took about a month before sex was back on the table. We're so much more honest with each other and forthcoming with our thoughts and feelings. Except...

I'm not comfortable with the gay porn. We don't watch it together (and I don't want to) but I know (now) it's what he watches. There was one day a few weeks ago, on the weekend, I came upstairs while he was in the shower, and I could hear what he was watching on his phone. I also know (now) about toys he has for himself. We took a little staycation just the two of us this weekend and he showed me one of them (they're not ones the require a 2nd person). I told him he should use whatever he wants, it's fine with me. He also debuted a new pair of underwear which I didn't think anything of at first but then he asked if I thought they were gay. I said I didn't think that when I saw them. He said he thinks they're a little gay but they make him feel good. I said something like "that's all that matters." But, I see the "gayness" now. Part of me isn't trying to shame him for liking what he likes. He likes that porn? Fine! Toys? Sure, you do you (I guess literally? lol). "Gay" underwear? Ok! But the other part of me is wondering am I being too accepting (for lack of a better word)? I haven't had this conversation with him and I think I need to. 

Another thing is he wants to get back to the gym. I'm trying to get to a place where I'm ok with that, but I'm not there yet. This came up at a recent counseling session. I said I never wanted to be the partner/wife that was like "You can't do X." But I don't trust him going to the gym. I would have *no clue* that anything was happening in the showers. And I've looked into alternatives for him - a gym without a shower. But then my mind thinks, "well, what if he meets someone at the gym and they hang out outside of the gym." And I told him that one of my biggest fears is to look like an idiot/fool for forgiving him and trusting him. I said "You hid that phone from me for years and I felt so stupid." He is willing to wait until I'm ready and he's earned back my trust. He says he was manipulative and hid the phone well. He just wishes (and I do too) that there was a way for him to demonstrate I can trust him again. Like, if there was just something he could do where it's like a switch is flipped. 

During our staycation, he told me he was ready for another baby. Eight weeks ago, I would've agreed. But the fear of looking stupid has me hesitating. A small part of me also wonders if we'd be having a baby to "save" the marriage. I'm not sure it needs saving or having a baby would do the saving. We had always planned on trying at the end of this year. I'm so torn on this. I'm ready for another baby. But I'm not sure _we _are ready for another baby. And if not now, I don't know what the timeline looks like for that (I'm not getting any younger).

I feel like I've bottled everything up so I hope you all enjoyed reading that .

I've told my sister some things but not everything. We don't talk about everything in our lives (sex) and I also don't want her to judge/hold anything against my husband since we are still together, so I've held back a lot since that first weekend when it hit the fan. I really needed to find a place to get this all out. 

I'll read all advice offered but I'm really interested in advice on:

the porn/toys (getting over it)
having a baby
trusting him again

Thanks!


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## MattMatt

Where do you live? Have you seen a solicitor/lawyer yet?


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## ConflictedEverything

No, not interested in seeing a lawyer.


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## MattMatt

Why not? You need to check out your rights.


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## Andy1001

Do not have a baby with him and I really hope that you’re using condoms when you have sex with him. He has been in the closet for too long and I wonder has he ever met up with a man for sex.
He needs to have a hiv test immediately and again in six months. 
As do you.


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## ConflictedEverything

On a scale of 1-10 with 10=divorce, 8= talk to a lawyer, I'm at maybe a 2. 

We have a long road ahead of us, but with time, counseling, and honesty, I don't see any reason we won't make it. 

_I hope these words don't come back to haunt me._


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## ConflictedEverything

Andy1001 said:


> Do not have a baby with him and I really hope that you’re using condoms when you have sex with him. He has been in the closet for too long and I wonder has he ever met up with a man for sex.
> He needs to have a hiv test immediately and again in six months.
> As do you.


Hi, thank you. I've thought about getting tested. It's been at the back of my mind. When I had our son, they test for various things and I came back clean. I know I need to make an appt.


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## DownByTheRiver

ConflictedEverything said:


> The last 7 weeks have been nuts and I'm so glad that I found this forum because I think it's exactly what I need. This will be lengthy because I need to get it all off my chest.
> 
> Seven weeks ago I learned my husband of nearly 3 years (together for 7) was bisexual. One night he was in the hot tub, which he occasionally went in by himself (too hot for me to go in during the summer). I poked my head outside (pitch black, couldn't see anything) and jokingly said "whatcha doing?" and the way he said "nothing" just sounded _off_. So I went inside and turned on the tv to check the cameras that we have around our house. It was then I saw him taking photos of himself. I'm not sure what language is allowed on this site, so lets just say it was from the waist down, both sides of his body. I couldn't believe it. I sat on our bed in stunned silence. He was cheating on me. We don't share pictures like that. I didn't know what to do. I was frozen. He eventually moved to a corner of the hot tub that I couldn't see on the camera, and then later to the pool where we didn't have a camera. He was outside for about an hour. I pretended to be asleep when he came back inside. He took a shower and came to bed. I didn't sleep much and silently cried half the night. I got up early to get some work done. After he left for work, I watched the camera from the time he went outside to the time he came back in and that's when I learned he had a 2nd phone. I was devastated.
> 
> Here's the thing, about 4 years ago I could've sworn I saw another phone on the floor lit up. It was night, I didn't have my glasses on or contacts in. I can't even remember if this was the middle of the night or if we were just about to turn in (lights off, tv off). I said "is that a phone?" he denied it, said there was nothing there, said I was crazy. I _felt_ crazy. He hid whatever it was that was on the floor. I never saw it again. I tried withholding sex until he told me what it was. I told my sister that I was paranoid and she basically said I was going to make myself crazy and I need to just trust him since I wasn't confident to begin with in what I saw.
> 
> Fast forward to the day after the hot tub incident. I called my sister. She remembered the issue from years ago. She was pissed for me. I cried on the phone with her. After that, I texted my boss that I needed a personal day and I crawled back into bed. I couldn't focus on anything and the images from the camera kept replaying in my head. I cried and I slept all day. I ignored his texts, told him I was swamped with work. I also made a plan to confront him when he got home from work. He walked in the door, completely unaware there was an issue. Our son (18mo) was playing on the living room floor, he sat on the couch. He said "is something wrong?" Everything suddenly became very loud in my head during the few seconds I took to answer him. I said "are you cheating on me?" His face got serious and he said "No." Right before I started to cry I said "Then what was that in the hot tub last night?" After a minute to gather his thoughts, he confessed. He said "it's not what you think..." I said "I'm listening." He told me he took an old phone and downloaded Grindr. He said he's attracted to men and talking to them on the app excited him. He said he didn't do it all the time, just every so often when he was bored. I asked if it was every time he went in the hot tub and he said no. I asked if he had a 2nd phone 4 years ago and he said yes. He swore up and down that he's never met anyone and didn't share pics of his face.
> 
> Throughout the night he volunteered information or if I asked, he answered (I believe) truthfully. I asked him if he could stop and he said yes. The thought of losing me and our son terrified him. I asked him to get rid of the phone and he said he would. I thought about asking to see the phone but I chose not to. I asked if he had ever been with a man and he said when we first started dating a guy at the gym went down on him. He also said some guys at the gym will leave their shower curtains open during their showers so others can watch. He suggested counseling and I agreed. I asked him not to go to the gym until after we started and he agreed.
> 
> It's been 2 of the most stressful months of life. Earlier that week, a pet was sick and in the hospital for 3 days. The day of the incident, we closed on our house sale and were supposed to go to a celebratory dinner the night I confronted him. We were packing for our move, and closed on our home purchase the following week. Since then, we've gone to counseling every 2 weeks or so. I told him in the beginning that I was scared that going to counseling would actually make him want to explore that side of himself more.
> 
> The crazy thing is, within a few days, I felt like things were back to normal. Those videos are burned into my brain but I don't cry about them anymore. We're back to the way we were... even having sex. I didn't let him touch me after this all first happened. After a couple weeks, we kissed. It took about a month before sex was back on the table. We're so much more honest with each other and forthcoming with our thoughts and feelings. Except...
> 
> I'm not comfortable with the gay porn. We don't watch it together (and I don't want to) but I know (now) it's what he watches. There was one day a few weeks ago, on the weekend, I came upstairs while he was in the shower, and I could hear what he was watching on his phone. I also know (now) about toys he has for himself. We took a little staycation just the two of us this weekend and he showed me one of them (they're not ones the require a 2nd person). I told him he should use whatever he wants, it's fine with me. He also debuted a new pair of underwear which I didn't think anything of at first but then he asked if I thought they were gay. I said I didn't think that when I saw them. He said he thinks they're a little gay but they make him feel good. I said something like "that's all that matters." But, I see the "gayness" now. Part of me isn't trying to shame him for liking what he likes. He likes that porn? Fine! Toys? Sure, you do you (I guess literally? lol). "Gay" underwear? Ok! But the other part of me is wondering am I being too accepting (for lack of a better word)? I haven't had this conversation with him and I think I need to.
> 
> Another thing is he wants to get back to the gym. I'm trying to get to a place where I'm ok with that, but I'm not there yet. This came up at a recent counseling session. I said I never wanted to be the partner/wife that was like "You can't do X." But I don't trust him going to the gym. I would have *no clue* that anything was happening in the showers. And I've looked into alternatives for him - a gym without a shower. But then my mind thinks, "well, what if he meets someone at the gym and they hang out outside of the gym." And I told him that one of my biggest fears is to look like an idiot/fool for forgiving him and trusting him. I said "You hid that phone from me for years and I felt so stupid." He is willing to wait until I'm ready and he's earned back my trust. He says he was manipulative and hid the phone well. He just wishes (and I do too) that there was a way for him to demonstrate I can trust him again. Like, if there was just something he could do where it's like a switch is flipped.
> 
> During our staycation, he told me he was ready for another baby. Eight weeks ago, I would've agreed. But the fear of looking stupid has me hesitating. A small part of me also wonders if we'd be having a baby to "save" the marriage. I'm not sure it needs saving or having a baby would do the saving. We had always planned on trying at the end of this year. I'm so torn on this. I'm ready for another baby. But I'm not sure _we _are ready for another baby. And if not now, I don't know what the timeline looks like for that (I'm not getting any younger).
> 
> I feel like I've bottled everything up so I hope you all enjoyed reading that .
> 
> I've told my sister some things but not everything. We don't talk about everything in our lives (sex) and I also don't want her to judge/hold anything against my husband since we are still together, so I've held back a lot since that first weekend when it hit the fan. I really needed to find a place to get this all out.
> 
> I'll read all advice offered but I'm really interested in advice on:
> 
> the porn/toys (getting over it)
> having a baby
> trusting him again
> Thanks!


Do not have a baby with him. he's probably doing that just to get you too busy to care what he's doing. 

I've yet to meet a bi or gay man who only looks and never actually does anything and I've known quite a few. 

He's probably got something going at the gym. It's easy enough to have a real five minute quickie with another gay guy who also only wants sex.


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## Diana7

The fact is that he had another secret phone for at least 4 years, probably more so what was he doing all that time? He was signed up to a gay dating site at the very least. I can fully see that you can't trust him, neither would I. Maybe its worth asking him to take a lie dectector test, as you may well not know the full truth. He also needs to be fully open with the phone and computers etc but of course he hid one for many years so he could do again.
As for a baby, your little one is still very young. I would leave it for many months till you are more sure of the future. Him suggesting another baby now maybe his way of trying to keep hold of you and distract you. Remember he has already cheated on you when you were dating, and thats the one time he told you about.


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## ConflictedEverything

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do not have a baby with him. he's probably doing that just to get you too busy to care what he's doing.
> 
> I've yet to meet a bi or gay man who only looks and never actually does anything and I've known quite a few.
> 
> He's probably got something going at the gym. It's easy enough to have a real five minute quickie with another gay guy who also only wants sex.


Thank you for your comment. It's scary to think you might be right.

At the moment I believe him when he told me his only experience with another man in person was the oral he received years ago.


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## DownByTheRiver

I don't. I mean what is the point of getting himself excited and then doing nothing about it?


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## ConflictedEverything

Diana7 said:


> The fact is that he had another secret phone for at least 4 years, so what was he doing all that time? I can fully see that you can't trust him, neither would I. Maybe its worth asking him to take a lie dectector test, as you may well not know the truth. He also needs to be fully open with the phone and computers etc but of course he hid one for many years so he could do again.
> As for a baby, your little one is still very young. I would leave it for many months till you are more sure of the future. Him suggesting another baby now maybe his way of trying to keep hold of you and distract you. Remember he has already cheated on you when you were dating, and thats the one time he told you about.


Thank you. I'm not sure about a lie detector test. He has been noticeably more open with his "real" phone and I've done a little snooping (and hated every second of it). We've talked about how easy it would be for him to get a 2nd phone, at home and at counseling. For now, I believe him when he tells me he won't do that again. Foolish of me? Maybe. Hopefully not. I didn't include this in my original post because it was already so lengthy, but he told me that he hadn't touched the other phone in over a year but in the last year or so he got bored and curious so he got it from its hiding spot. 

I will say I don't consider that one time at the gym cheating. He said it was a couple of weeks after we met/started dating. We weren't exclusive until 3 months in. 

I hope I'm not coming off as making excuses for him. I'm just trying to provide additional facts or context.

Baby #2 is definitely on hold. I'm too hesitant about it.


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## ConflictedEverything

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't. I mean what is the point of getting himself excited and then doing nothing about it?


I'm not sure what you mean?


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## Blondilocks

If you're uncomfortable with the gay porn, you're really going to be uncomfortable when he takes a gay or bi lover. It's only a matter of time. 

No baby until this gets sorted. Wait and watch. When he gets comfortable is when he'll up the stakes.


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## ConflictedEverything

Blondilocks said:


> If you're uncomfortable with the gay porn, you're really going to be uncomfortable when he takes a gay or bi lover. It's only a matter of time.
> 
> No baby until this gets sorted. Wait and watch. When he gets comfortable is when he'll up the stakes.


Honestly, I feel like this is an unfair stigma on the bisexual community. Just because he's bi doesn't mean he'll cheat or ask to bring another person into the marriage. Am I afraid that he might leave me for another man? Hell yes. But to state it so matter-of-factly is wrong. 

When this all first happened I did a lot of googling to find anyone that had gone through a similar experience. And in the reading I did, I learned a lot of about the bi community. I'm by no means an expert, and clearly by my post I'm not super comfortable with it, but I want to treat it respectfully.


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## Blondilocks

It's not a stigma on any community. It's a stigma on people who want more than one partner. Treat it as respectfully as he did when he lied about his phone and gaslighted you. Good luck.


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## Nailhead

You will not "counsel" bi-sexual out of your H. Understand it will be there no matter how many times your H goes to counseling. If this something that does not work for you....time to look to D.


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## ConflictedEverything

Nailhead said:


> You will not "counsel" bi-sexual out of your H. Understand it will be there no matter how many times your H goes to counseling. If this something that does not work for you....time to look to D.


Definitely not trying to "counsel it out" of him. Trust was broken, that's why we're going. It's going to take time to rebuild that.


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## DownByTheRiver

ConflictedEverything said:


> I'm not sure what you mean?


I mean guys don't make themselves get sexually aroused and then not do anything about it.


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## Nailhead

ConflictedEverything said:


> Definitely not trying to "counsel it out" of him. Trust was broken, that's why we're going. It's going to take time to rebuild that.


My point is, your H will always be this way. Is this something you can live with? I suspect this goes deeper then you are being told.


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## ConflictedEverything

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean guys don't make themselves get sexually aroused and then not do anything about it.


He took care of himself.

After our most recent counseling session, I decided I wanted to ask more questions about what happened at the gym. I'm planning on it this weekend, probably tomorrow night. The way it was described to me was guys left the shower curtains open for others to watch - either watch them shower or watch them pleasure themselves while watching others. He did not explicitly say there were ever guys showering together, and that's something I want to ask about.


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## ConflictedEverything

Nailhead said:


> My point is, your H will always be this way. Is this something you can live with? I suspect this goes deeper then you are being told.


I think it is something I can live with, it's just something I need to get used to. I'm trying to look at it as being no different than a kink. I know that it _is _more than that, but my way of accepting it and him and his attraction to both sexes is to look at it as a kink. There's a lot of porn categories that I have no interest in watching or toys I have no interest in using, but that shouldn't mean I should judge him for being into it. This is my was of coping with it, I guess.

I don't want this to be misinterpreted as me not thinking what he did was wrong - it was very very wrong and hurtful. He betrayed my trust and misled me about who he was for 7 years. But I still love him and I still want to be with him and he says he loves me and wants to be with me. 

Of course, everything will change if it comes out that he did physically cheat on me with someone at some point (as mentioned in another reply, the time at the gym when we first started dating doesn't count to me, we weren't exclusive) or if he does cheat on me in the future. All bets will be off.


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## Nailhead

ConflictedEverything said:


> I think it is something I can live with, it's just something I need to get used to. I'm trying to look at it as being no different than a kink. I know that it _is _more than that, but my way of accepting it and him and his attraction to both sexes is to look at it as a kink. There's a lot of porn categories that I have no interest in watching or toys I have no interest in using, but that shouldn't mean I should judge him for being into it. This is my was of coping with it, I guess.
> 
> I don't want this to be misinterpreted as me not thinking what he did was wrong - it was very very wrong and hurtful. He betrayed my trust and misled me about who he was for 7 years. But I still love him and I still want to be with him and he says he loves me and wants to be with me.
> 
> Of course, everything will change if it comes out that he did physically cheat on me with someone at some point (as mentioned in another reply, the time at the gym when we first started dating doesn't count to me, we weren't exclusive) or if he does cheat on me in the future. All bets will be off.


I would hope not but I'm afraid there is more than what your H is telling you.


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## Diana7

ConflictedEverything said:


> I think it is something I can live with, it's just something I need to get used to. I'm trying to look at it as being no different than a kink. I know that it _is _more than that, but my way of accepting it and him and his attraction to both sexes is to look at it as a kink. There's a lot of porn categories that I have no interest in watching or toys I have no interest in using, but that shouldn't mean I should judge him for being into it. This is my was of coping with it, I guess.
> 
> I don't want this to be misinterpreted as me not thinking what he did was wrong - it was very very wrong and hurtful. He betrayed my trust and misled me about who he was for 7 years. But I still love him and I still want to be with him and he says he loves me and wants to be with me.
> 
> Of course, everything will change if it comes out that he did physically cheat on me with someone at some point (as mentioned in another reply, the time at the gym when we first started dating doesn't count to me, we weren't exclusive) or if he does cheat on me in the future. All bets will be off.


People dont sign up to dating sites unless they want to date.


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## MattMatt

ConflictedEverything said:


> Honestly, I feel like this is an unfair stigma on the bisexual community. Just because he's bi doesn't mean he'll cheat or ask to bring another person into the marriage. Am I afraid that he might leave me for another man? Hell yes. But to state it so matter-of-factly is wrong.
> 
> When this all first happened I did a lot of googling to find anyone that had gone through a similar experience. And in the reading I did, I learned a lot of about the bi community. I'm by no means an expert, and clearly by my post I'm not super comfortable with it, but I want to treat it respectfully.


Actually, people like your husband are an unfair stigma on the bisexual community. Why? Because he has lied to you for years, showing how untrustworthy he is.


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## ConflictedEverything

Nailhead said:


> I would hope not but I'm afraid there is more than what your H is telling you.


Time will tell...


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## ConflictedEverything

Diana7 said:


> People dont sign up to dating sites unless they want to date.


Fair enough


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## Diana7

ConflictedEverything said:


> Fair enough


I feel you are being very naive. Hense my suggestion of a lie detector test. You may not even need to go ahead with it, the thought that you will may make him be more honest.


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## ConflictedEverything

Diana7 said:


> I feel you are being very naive. Hense my suggestion of a lie detector test. You may not even need to go ahead with it, the thought that you will may make him be more honest.


Honestly, the suggestion of a lie detector test seems silly and unrealistic. How much more honest are you expecting him to be? Not knowing him or me, and reading a few posts on a message board has you thinking that he's hiding so much more and I'm just not sure where that's coming from. Maybe the thousands of posts on this forum where women are devastated by their philandering husbands/partners has everyone on here suspecting/expecting the worst. But in my conversations with my husband, I believe he has disclosed everything to me. If that's naive, so be it.


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## Blondilocks

Is there a reason why he has to go to a gym frequented by gay men? Is his new underwear an advertisement for him?


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## ConflictedEverything

I'm genuinely surprised by the replies I've gotten to my original post. I guess I should've read other posts before putting mine up to see what kinds of replies people got. I really expected replies of support and encouragement. I thought people would say "I'm sorry this happened." "Good luck!" or advice on rebuilding trust... I guess my expectations were naive. I thought my original post was clear that we were working through this and staying together and moving forward. But the first reply I got was to talk to a lawyer. Another reply that boils down to "your husband is bisexual, so he will definitely take up a gay lover." Thanks?

"Don't have a baby" - Totally get
"Get tested" Yes, understandable

And now I feel like I'm in this weird position where I have to defend my husband... not something I expected to have to do on this board.

Oh well, live and learn.


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## Blondilocks

How about we bring in an expert who's been through the wringer.
@notmyjamie , if you can spare the time, would you be kind enough to assist this lady with her issue.


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## Aviator

Sounds like part of him was dying to get caught... doing all that on camera with you in ear shot.


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## Mr. Nail

ConflictedEverything said:


> I'm genuinely surprised by the replies I've gotten to my original post. I guess I should've read other posts before putting mine up to see what kinds of replies people got. I really expected replies of support and encouragement. I thought people would say "I'm sorry this happened." "Good luck!" or advice on rebuilding trust... I guess my expectations were naive. I thought my original post was clear that we were working through this and staying together and moving forward. But the first reply I got was to talk to a lawyer. Another reply that boils down to "your husband is bisexual, so he will definitely take up a gay lover." Thanks?
> 
> "Don't have a baby" - Totally get
> "Get tested" Yes, understandable
> 
> *And now I feel like I'm in this weird position where I have to defend my husband... not something I expected to have to do on this board.*
> 
> Oh well, live and learn.


What you have to defend here is_ Your decision_. If you decide to reconcile and heal you will be accused of being naive, you will be drowned in statistics and you will be advised to find better elsewhere. If you decide to divorce you will be called a quitter, your devotion to your spouse, your faithfulness to your vows, your religion, and life choices will all be challenged. And, often by the same people. But, this is not a bad thing. What you are deciding is a very big deal and you do need to examine it thoroughly.
But in the end it is Your decision. And we will respect your decision. A great deal of my trouble with the forum at large is because I haven't made my decision. There are plenty of reasons to go either way. I personally find that defending the decision is a helpful tool.


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## Girl_power

We want your marriage to work out and we want the best for you. I personally think your marriage CAN work. But you shouldn’t be naïve. You need to figure out what boundaries you have, and what you are willing to accept and what you aren’t. And enforce them.

Can he watch gay porn?
Can he video chat on porn with men?
Can he talk to other gay men via text? 
You need to figure out what your ok with. Also, I think her lost your trust and needs to rebuild it. That meaning, I tho k he should give you free roaming onto his phone, no more passwords, and maybe even start tracking each other on your iPhone or whatever. At least temporarily until you feel safe and like you can fully trust him again.


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## gold5932

ConflictedEverything said:


> I'm genuinely surprised by the replies I've gotten to my original post. I guess I should've read other posts before putting mine up to see what kinds of replies people got. I really expected replies of support and encouragement. I thought people would say "I'm sorry this happened." "Good luck!" or advice on rebuilding trust... I guess my expectations were naive. I thought my original post was clear that we were working through this and staying together and moving forward. But the first reply I got was to talk to a lawyer. Another reply that boils down to "your husband is bisexual, so he will definitely take up a gay lover." Thanks?
> 
> "Don't have a baby" - Totally get
> "Get tested" Yes, understandable
> 
> And now I feel like I'm in this weird position where I have to defend my husband... not something I expected to have to do on this board.
> 
> Oh well, live and learn.


A few of the posters on this board do this nuclear thing to quite a few new posters. I think it's quite disgusting and you just have to weed thru. Many good opinions but sometimes the opinions are absolutely unbelievable. Just go with your gut. Nobody on this board knows you and what your position is. Good luck.


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## Diana7

ConflictedEverything said:


> I'm genuinely surprised by the replies I've gotten to my original post. I guess I should've read other posts before putting mine up to see what kinds of replies people got. I really expected replies of support and encouragement. I thought people would say "I'm sorry this happened." "Good luck!" or advice on rebuilding trust... I guess my expectations were naive. I thought my original post was clear that we were working through this and staying together and moving forward. But the first reply I got was to talk to a lawyer. Another reply that boils down to "your husband is bisexual, so he will definitely take up a gay lover." Thanks?
> 
> "Don't have a baby" - Totally get
> "Get tested" Yes, understandable
> 
> And now I feel like I'm in this weird position where I have to defend my husband... not something I expected to have to do on this board.
> 
> Oh well, live and learn.


I appreciate that you want to believe him. However he had a phone hidden from you for several years, he belonged to such sites as grindr which is a site where gay men arrange to meet and usually to have sex, and he chooses to belong to a gym which appears to have a large number of gay men who are clearly looking for some sort of sexual action.
This does not sound like a man who intended to or has been faithful, but I guess you will see what you want to see.

We have seen it here so many times when a spouse refuses to believe that their spouse can possibly be lying or cheating despIte all the evidence, yet it later proves that they were. Unless you get the full truth how can there be any sort of understanding and reconciliation? What on earth do you think he was doing on those sites and that phone and at that gym for all those years?


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## Blondilocks

OP, I suggest you read your original post and see how the responses you received fit in. If you were only looking for sympathy, you could have said so.


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## Affaircare

@ConflictedEverything,

I can "name that tune" in one sentence. Being bisexual does not mean being unfaithful to the one to whom you've made a commitment. THAT is the issue!

I will tell you right now that I am bisexual, and for me I have the ability to have feelings for and attraction to people of either gender because I love the inner person, not necessarily their exterior. BUT when I make a specific choice to be with a person, and I commit to that person, from that point forward, I don't care how beautiful another person is (inside or out or both)...I discipline myself to be faithful to the one to whom I made promises.

THAT is the issue here. Your husband can be attracted to whoever he is attracted to, but he made both moral and legal vows TO YOU that indicated something like "forsaking all others..." Now you caught him at minimum emotionally cheating/sexting/etc. with other people, which is 100% INFIDELITY...and because he's bisexual you're acting like you're "taking the high road" because you're excusing it. 

My personal opinion: Just NO! No, being bisexual doesn't mean you get a spouse and a lover on the side (unless that was the marital agreement made beforehand by consenting adults). Being bisexual doesn't mean he can have a male lover and a female lover! That's ludicrous. He is married TO YOU and has a moral and legal duty to you and to your joint children. All this other extracurricular is malarkey and you should not stand for it--bisexual or not! 

In a nutshell, my advice to you would be to tell him straight up: "When we married, you made a vow in front of god, our families, and witnesses that you would forsake all others and love only me. I expect you to 100% fulfill that promise and will not share you. Period. If you choose to pursue 'sharing' you will do so without me because I will make the decision for us both. Either be fully faithful to me and only me, or lose me."


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## Andy1001

You don’t get it op and yes, you are naive. For *four years *he let you believe you had imagined seeing him with another phone, he left you thinking you were paranoid rather than admit the truth and even your sister thought you were hallucinating. Now that he got caught on camera suddenly he’s completely honest and open with you......
You are now defending someone who was messing with your mental health and as far as I’m concerned he’s still messing with it.


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## Diana7

Andy1001 said:


> You don’t get it op and yes, you are naive. For *four years *he let you believe you had imagined seeing him with another phone, he left you thinking you were paranoid rather than admit the truth and even your sister thought you were hallucinating. Now that he got caught on camera suddenly he’s completely honest and open with you......
> You are now defending someone who was messing with your mental health and as far as I’m concerned he’s still messing with it.


At least 4 years, possibly much longer.


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## Prodigal

ConflictedEverything said:


> I'm genuinely surprised by the replies I've gotten to my original post. I guess I should've read other posts before putting mine up to see what kinds of replies people got. I really expected replies of support and encouragement. I thought people would say "I'm sorry this happened." "Good luck!" or advice on rebuilding trust... I guess my expectations were naive.


The title of your thread says "open to advice." From ^^this^^ it appears you wanted the advice to be in line with your expectations. Expectations. They'll bite you in the ass every time.


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## moulinyx

OP, my heart breaks for you. 

This is a horrible situation. I wont beat a dead horse seeing as you have already acknowledged the lying, baby issue, and started counseling. 

I do want to address the gym a little bit. I dont think you are wrong for cutting that off. You aren't telling him he can't do a thing, but you are putting your guard up while this is figured out. I have nothing against bi-sexuality or anything like that, but is he sure he is bi-sexual? My best friend growing up was devastated when her father came out as gay and blew up their family with a divorce and surprise affair. I am not saying your husband is going to cheat on you, I am just questioning if he fully knows his sexual preference. This would be horrible to go through a second time if he decides to explore this in 10 years.

I also think it was a mistake not looking at the 2nd phone. Would you still be at a 2 on the divorce scale if you found out he had more activities aside from pictures? The gym is also still fishy to me. If he is watching men jerk off at the gym or engaging in sexual activities...that is pretty damning. I am not sure how you can ever trust the gym setting or if he really trusts himself. 

Has he considered going to individual therapy sessions? Maybe with a sex therapist to answer these questions? It isn't fair to either of you to stay in a marriage if he is actually attracted to men.


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## MattMatt

@ConflictedEverything please don't allow your natural desire to be fair to a class of people to colour your judgement about what your husband has done and might be doing.


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## Nailhead

ConflictedEverything said:


> Honestly, the suggestion of a lie detector test seems silly and unrealistic. How much more honest are you expecting him to be? Not knowing him or me, and reading a few posts on a message board has you thinking that he's hiding so much more and I'm just not sure where that's coming from. Maybe the thousands of posts on this forum where women are devastated by their philandering husbands/partners has everyone on here suspecting/expecting the worst. But in my conversations with my husband, I believe he has disclosed everything to me. If that's naive, so be it.


Understand many on this board have experienced some form of betrayal. These individual know the cheaters handbook script, reaction, down playing, minimizing, and trickle truth. In short, they have heard it all...eventually. These folks suspect no different a script for you as well.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Wow.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Your husband's been cheating on you for YEARS and has been bisexual for more years than you know.

And you honesty expected everyone to encourage you to stay with a lying, gas lighting, deceitful cheater who you naively think you can get back on track with counseling? One who has continued to lie to your face day in and day out for years and married you dishonestly by not telling you the truth about himself? There isn't a therapist on this PLANET that can make that right.

You're just choosing to eat every single bite of that **** sandwich he's served up to you, aren't you?

And MOST frighteningly, you actually think this liar is telling you the TRUTH - that he's never met up with guys since he's been with you.

Good lord.

I guess you're going to have to learn the hard way on this one. We'll be here when you come back in 6 months or a year or two with the subject title, "You were all right about my husband!"

Until then, I'll just say good luck to you.


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## Rooster2015

First I think you will have to decide if you can forgive him for the past. Meaning the phone issue. If so then you will need to let him know what is expectable in your marriage and what is not. The dating site has to end. That only is used for one thing. If he agrees to everything you've laid out maybe move forward. But require him to give you full access to his phone at anytime. If he says no it should be a red flag to you! JMO


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## Evinrude58

ConflictedEverything said:


> Honestly, the suggestion of a lie detector test seems silly and unrealistic. How much more honest are you expecting him to be? Not knowing him or me, and reading a few posts on a message board has you thinking that he's hiding so much more and I'm just not sure where that's coming from. Maybe the thousands of posts on this forum where women are devastated by their philandering husbands/partners has everyone on here suspecting/expecting the worst. But in my conversations with my husband, I believe he has disclosed everything to me. If that's naive, so be it.


Yes, it’s incredibly naive. Your husband has shown he’s more thAn capable of lying to you, and has for years. For you to suddenly think he’s being totally truthful—— is illogical.

He had a burner phone And was on a gay dating site for YEARS. You found him taking **** pics of himself.

You are in absolute denial if you think he hasn’t been having sex with men the last 4 years. 

people are people. They do what they want to do. Your husband wants to have sex with men. He has taken numerous steps to achieve that goal.

I take it back, you aren’t naive. Not at all. You are just wishing what you know is true—- isn’t.

I’m very sorry. I know this is terrible that your whole life is now going to change. Try to roll with it. Accept that your husband has sex with other men, or divorce. You can’t have both.

man is on a dating site
Man has a burner phone
Man caught sending **** pics

Exactly what else do you need to see in order for you to believe he’s cheating on you?

You refused to ask to see his burner phone—- you don’t want the truth.


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## notmyjamie

Blondilocks said:


> How about we bring in an expert who's been through the wringer.
> @notmyjamie , if you can spare the time, would you be kind enough to assist this lady with her issue.


Thank you for the shout out but I'm not sure how much I can help. OP is in a huge state of denial right now and nor do I blame her. @confllictedeverything Your story is similar to mine in that you got married thinking your husband was one way and now it turns out he is very different. I went online and asked for advice and was told all the same stuff you're being told. I closed down that site and never went back. It would be a real shame if you made the same mistake that I did. 

But in the end, all those people were 100% right. My exH is not bisexual, he is gay. I caught him on a Grinder like site designed to help married men find hookups on the downlow. He tried to say the account wasn't his. Then he told me that he was confused because of some past sexual abuse (apparently a LOT of men use this excuse as it makes their wife feel horrible for them and even more like the whole thing is not his fault) I couldn't figure out how to end my marriage and still work, feed and house my children, etc and honestly, I didn't want to...he was still having sex with me and I wanted to pretend the problem didn't really exist. But it did and my marriage fell apart because of it. As more and more time went by, my exH was less and less interested in me as a wife and the few times a year we'd try he couldn't perform so eventually we stopped even trying. My self esteem chipped away a little more every day because the person who was supposed to want me and love me didn't. It was damaging in a way I can't really quantify. I do not want that for you.

I personally don't believe your husband is bisexual. I think he is gay. Now this is just my opinion but you asked so I'm offering. You seem like a very open and caring person and I'm sure that's part of why he chose you as a mate. He would have known you could handle the fact that he is bisexual. But he didn't tell you, he hid it. My guess is that he is in denial about his own sexuality and is trying to have the normal life with you. There are many men who are hetero-romantic but homosexual, my exH is one. He wants the romance and companionship of a woman but he wants his sex to be with men. He felt that meant he wasn't 100% gay. He is gay though and a wife won't change that. 

But your husband is not just saying he's bisexual, he's been entrenched in the gay lifestyle as much as a guy can be who is trying to remain on the downlow. If he were only bisexual, he wouldn't be joining Grinder and he wouldn't be choosing a gym based on men getting naked for him. I could be wrong but I'd eat my shoes if he hasn't hooked up with these gym guys a few times at least. There is a reason he picked that gym. He is entrenched in the community enough that he knew just which gym to sign up for...men don't shower naked on display in most gyms. 

And precisely because you are being open to his "needs" his is going to be able to indulge in them more and more...and the more he does, the less he'll be able to perform with you. 

I know everything you're feeling right now believe me. I wasted 14 years of my life trying to hold together a marriage with a man that loved me but didn't want me. I didn't want to believe that I had been fooled (he can't be gay, he asks for sex a lot!!!) I didn't want to have to admit that all those times we were intimate he was pretending. That hurt the most to be honest. But I got over it. It wasn't easy but I did. My exH and I get along fine now. I've worked past the anger and life is good. I still wish I'd left when I first found that account. 

I'm going to stop here because I could easily write a book about my experiences. If you have specific questions I'm happy to answer them. There is also a website called Straightspouse.com and they have a forum with some supportive folks there as well. There is a section for people who are continuing their marriage. I wish you good luck on your journey, no matter how you proceed.


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## Diana7

notmyjamie said:


> Thank you for the shout out but I'm not sure how much I can help. OP is in a huge state of denial right now and nor do I blame her. @confllictedeverything Your story is similar to mine in that you got married thinking your husband was one way and now it turns out he is very different. I went online and asked for advice and was told all the same stuff you're being told. I closed down that site and never went back. It would be a real shame if you made the same mistake that I did.
> 
> But in the end, all those people were 100% right. My exH is not bisexual, he is gay. I caught him on a Grinder like site designed to help married men find hookups on the downlow. He tried to say the account wasn't his. Then he told me that he was confused because of some past sexual abuse (apparently a LOT of men use this excuse as it makes their wife feel horrible for them and even more like the whole thing is not his fault) I couldn't figure out how to end my marriage and still work, feed and house my children, etc and honestly, I didn't want to...he was still having sex with me and I wanted to pretend the problem didn't really exist. But it did and my marriage fell apart because of it. As more and more time went by, my exH was less and less interested in me as a wife and the few times a year we'd try he couldn't perform so eventually we stopped even trying. My self esteem chipped away a little more every day because the person who was supposed to want me and love me didn't. It was damaging in a way I can't really quantify. I do not want that for you.
> 
> I personally don't believe your husband is bisexual. I think he is gay. Now this is just my opinion but you asked so I'm offering. You seem like a very open and caring person and I'm sure that's part of why he chose you as a mate. He would have known you could handle the fact that he is bisexual. But he didn't tell you, he hid it. My guess is that he is in denial about his own sexuality and is trying to have the normal life with you. There are many men who are hetero-romantic but homosexual, my exH is one. He wants the romance and companionship of a woman but he wants his sex to be with men. He felt that meant he wasn't 100% gay. He is gay though and a wife won't change that.
> 
> But your husband is not just saying he's bisexual, he's been entrenched in the gay lifestyle as much as a guy can be who is trying to remain on the downlow. If he were only bisexual, he wouldn't be joining Grinder and he wouldn't be choosing a gym based on men getting naked for him. I could be wrong but I'd eat my shoes if he hasn't hooked up with these gym guys a few times at least. There is a reason he picked that gym. He is entrenched in the community enough that he knew just which gym to sign up for...men don't shower naked on display in most gyms.
> 
> And precisely because you are being open to his "needs" his is going to be able to indulge in them more and more...and the more he does, the less he'll be able to perform with you.
> 
> I know everything you're feeling right now believe me. I wasted 14 years of my life trying to hold together a marriage with a man that loved me but didn't want me. I didn't want to believe that I had been fooled (he can't be gay, he asks for sex a lot!!!) I didn't want to have to admit that all those times we were intimate he was pretending. That hurt the most to be honest. But I got over it. It wasn't easy but I did. My exH and I get along fine now. I've worked past the anger and life is good. I still wish I'd left when I first found that account.
> 
> I'm going to stop here because I could easily write a book about my experiences. If you have specific questions I'm happy to answer them. There is also a website called Straightspouse.com and they have a forum with some supportive folks there as well. There is a section for people who are continuing their marriage. I wish you good luck on your journey, no matter how you proceed.


Thats really weird because I was going to say the same thing this evening having thought about this thread. This man is almost certianly gay. If he bisexual then why is he seeking out a gym which seems to be a place where gay men go and seek out gay action? Why is he just going onto gay dating sites and not ones for bisexuals? Why is he sending videos of himself to only gay sites? He seems to have little interest in women. 
Its men he is going for, and I think he says he was bisexual becuse he didnt want to hurt his wife and break up his marriage. If he admitted that he was gay then the OP may decide she cant remain with him, especially if he finally admitted that he is cheating with men. I just hope he has the decency to be honest and come clean. 

A friends dad left her mum for another man, its not easy at all.


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## Blondilocks

Thank you, @notmyjamie . I hope the OP takes your post to heart. Right now, she's like the frog in the pot of water.


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## notmyjamie

Blondilocks said:


> Thank you, @notmyjamie . I hope the OP takes your post to heart. Right now, she's like the frog in the pot of water.


I know the feeling well. It’s so easy to see from the outside but when you’re in it you have all these memories and feelings that make you believe it can’t be true. I remember many times my exH seemed so hot for me...there was a time I could get him ready from across the room. How could he be gay? I remember his proposal, his expressions of love, his affection and on and on and it just it so hard to add it all up and come out with the conclusion that he’s gay, even with the overwhelming evidence OP has. She will need time to figure it all out because even if he is bisexual he’s still a cheater and he’s still expending his sexual energy elsewhere. She is right not to trust him.


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