# Just started the 180 and its working



## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Just wanted to give some thanks to this forum. I just found it last week and its a really great place to come to to know you're not alone with marriage problems.

Anyways, a little backstory. I posted a week ago that i was feeling very unappreciated by the whole family, specifically my wife. Our sex life was boring, predictable, and no where near the frequency I wanted. I felt like my wife took me for granted, didnt show me the love or affection that I showed her, and it had really started making me angry and resentful.

This past weekend, for some strange reason, she had led me on to think we were going to bed to make love. We followed the same routine we always did, but when it came down to it, all she wanted to do was go to sleep. So of course, this left me frustrated and angry for many reasons other than not getting the sex.

I had thought about doing a 180 before and when I came on this site and read those rules, it intrigued me even more. On monday, I found the No More Mr. Nice Guy book by Robert Glover on these forums. I read that book front to back in one sitting and it was amazing. At times it was to preachy and went a little to much into the mother/father thing, but for the most part he described me perfectly. Like others on this forum, I highly recommend it.

So on to the results of just a few days. Over the past 3-4 days, I have not initiated any loving contact with my wife. I have not said I love you, stopped giving her hugs, kisses, soft touches, and I stopped making her my emotional center. Now this really is a 180 for me. I'm usually a very loving guy. I love to hug her, give her a little slap on the butt, give her a kiss just because, and so on. All that stopped cold turkey and I think she has noticed. I also have been a very cool guy the past few days and I've really worked on keeping any frustrations from showing and just been the type of person someone would want to be around. These past few days I've been the person I feel I should be all the time. I'm in control of my emotions, I feel stronger, and I am just going with the flow.

Over the past few days, shes the one now initiating contact with me. Shes the one getting upset that i'm not hugging her right or giving her more than just a peck on the lips when she tries to kiss me. Yesterday she demanded that I kiss her right after she tried to give me kisses twice and then touched me very sexually which shocked me because she hasnt done that in a long time. She shocked me again later because she asked me to go to bed very early and gave me that look like she would make it worth my while. Again, inside i'm freaking out how well this is working, outside i'm a cool cat.

Needless to say, its only been a few days but i'm happy with what I'm seeing. At first, I had some reservations because it felt like I was playing games you play when you are dating. I got married to never have to play those games again. Then, I started telling myself that i'm not playing games, I'm changing myself for the better. I'm working on being the type of person I should be and be a better husband and father. Lets hope things continue to improve.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

Good for you! It's good for you, your self esteem, and hopefully it will wake your wife up for good.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

WOW. I'm new here, and im amazed at what Ive found out about myself by the reading I've been doing in these forums. Im going on over 200 hours of reading, and I was about ready to explain my situation, and stumbled upon yours. You wrote it FOR me. I'd like to bounce off each other how its working out for us. I just started my 180 about 3 days ago, and unfortunately my girl is busy taking care of a sick grandmother, while staying at her moms, and I dont has noticed a change in me like she should, and I understand that, not being present and all. Im having a bit of struggle balancing the withdrawl of affection, and being a jerk. I dont want to come off as purposefully trying to hurt her.... Im very touchy-feely with kisses and hugs for no reason, hugging her when shes doing dishes, laying on her legs when shes curled up on the couch, ass-slapping, etc. SHE IS NOT. After finding out about myself that I need to stop begging, pleading, whining about her not doing what I want, and to start showing some confidence, and making myself happy with other things, she will come around. The one thing Ive been doing...is going out with a couple friends to the bar. Not too late, and sometimes with my mother, whom likes to got the club for some ****tails. I dont have many friends....well none, and thats a problem. She DEFINITELY took notice to me going out, and was texting me...asking where I was, who i was with, and asked me to text her when I got home. shed throw in the "Have a good time babe"...but I know it bothered her. Im not here to make her jealous, but Im afraid that my withdrawl, and my change in lifestyle that may actually NOT include her, is going to backfire. The things Im doing DO actually bring me happiness, and get my mind off of her genuinely, but shes going to come back at me vocallly and make me want to say.. "HOW DOES IT FEEL WHEN I DONT PAY ATTENTION TO YOU" !?!? But I want to hold that response in, and show that im cool, Im calm, and if she has a problem with it, to talk to me about it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Moth, I hope you find the balance it sounds like you need. You *should* do things that make you happy instead of expecting her to meet all your needs, and maybe the 180 will help you do that. 

I suspect you would benefit from some individual counseling to find out why you feel such a HUGE need for her presence in ALL that you do. That's reeking of low self-esteem!


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, I vaguely touched upon my needs and hers in my post. I dont need her involvement in everything I do, but I have crossed that line of smothering. Problem is, she is a terrible communicator. She will allow me to act a certain way, not seemed bothered by it...when It actually does. She will silently withdraw herself em otionally and physically. I PLEAD for her to communicate with me. Just to catch up. Even when things are good. Pillowtalk, simple after-work talks. Im huge on speaking our minds, and a fan of communication getting us through things. She bottles it up, and EXPLODES on me in an email, and waits till we are both at each others throats...when all she had to do was tell me. She keeps me guessing constantly, and sets me up to fail if I try to adapt to her silent anger. Frustrating. I enjoy her company, I love us to flirt, as well as be straight up during the day. And yes, I need affection. I want to say, "Im sorry, but I need affection to feel wanted", to her all the time. It makes my chest stick out to be told Im hot, to hear that she thin ks I look good in my new jeans. Buit she says them in suuch a BLAH manner, to where it seems theres no emotion behind it. She got dressed up for her birthday party, and had a nice tight pair of jeans on, a hot top, makeups...leather boots. She looked GOOD. (Which she always does, and I always make sure I express my appreciation for her wanting to look nice) I saw her, my jaw dropped, and said DAMN BABE, you look effin HOT. I dropped my soda. Her response?... Thanks. I dont know if Im crazy, but its kind of a kick to the groin when my words and BLATENT reaction to her beauty, and showing lust for her is just brushed off.... bleh. .... As I said...I LIKE to show my feelings, my appreciation, TELL her, not text, what pleases me.....and she wont give back. Thatssss where the begging comes in....weeks after weeks of "my needs not being met" from her, she accuses me of needy, mopey, pathetic. It makes me want to stop all of that, and just peck her on the lips, like she does me. Im always whining because I like to have my girl walk through the door, at least ACT like shes happy to see me, and look me in the eyes, smile, and kiss me for oh...3 seconds? Instead of the "friend kkiss". Is that too much to ask? My chest pops out, I FEEL CONFIDENT, and she has no idea the rewards she will get out of me, if she simply did her part, and TRY. I like reciprocation. but my Mr. Nice guy, mixed with a bit of codependancy comes out when I dont get it in return. So I take it upon myself to ask, tell, plead her to TELL ME HER needs, so that I can be your man, and meet them, or god-forbid exceed them. She wont tell me. Leaves it up to me to fiigure it out. SHE WONT TALK.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I am probably a bit like your gal. I am pretty unemotional until I feel ignored. Others couldn't ever see when something moved me in a good way, although I had no problem venting anger. 

I had to do two things: learn to read other people better AND learn to be more demonstrative. 

It sounds like you two are at opposite ends. The way you communicate is something completely alien to her. She fears the vulnerability that comes from being expressive. Yet you've become even more vulnerable because of it, which only reinforces her perceptions. 

My recommendation would be to STOP asking for her to tell you intimate information and instead, learn to read what she doesn't say. Make it a point to ask her "open-ended" questions that she can't answer with a yes/no or brief response. Here are a few that can help you get started: 

"What was the best part of your day at work?" "What was the most troublesome?" 
"If you could change one thing right now, what would it be?" 
"How can I make your day better in the next ten minutes?" 

When she blasts you with anger for things she has not communicated, refuse to get drawn into it. Take a firm stand. I learned to tell people, "My crystal ball is broken. If you don't tell me, then you have no right to expect me to know what's going on with you." I refused to take responsibility for a failure that could have been prevented if they'd only told me what they wanted. 
"


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

Ive thought about that approach as well, and have an entire arsenal of things Id like to say, in a certain manner, and hearing specific phrases is doing me well. Im eating it up  The problem with me is, my response has been.."Im sorry I dont have a crystal ball honey, I shouldve known better to buy another one." Ive always been apologetic, and avoided an arguement in fear that THAT would be a reason for her to be unhappy...anyways...
Shes going through some realllly tough times, her grandmother is in a home with cancer, not much time left. She is with her Mother 24/7 whether it be at the home, or home at her mothers. She basically has physically abandoned our apartment to not leave her mothers side. They have a bond so strong, that I cant even begin to explain it. her mother always comes first. Im fine with that, but her absence is causing an emotional, and physical distance between us. I understand her wanting to be there for her, comfort, talking, company, crying. BUT... She can check in. she can come home for a day or two. she can visit... HER home. Her man. Im completely left out of the equation. I do my best to be there for her at her granmas home...I help, I fix things...I just go to be there for my girl. She needs the support, and Im there for her. I send gifts, I make errands, bring food. anything to relieve the stress upon her and her family, Im trying to be a man. I do I do I do. My girl also has a 3 yr old, in which is a piece of my heart as well, and I miss them BOTH. After a month of her absence, and her not being able to sit and tell herself, "I should go home for a night, and touch base with my man. He has needs, and He wants to see me, and I miss him". this would mean everything to me. But Her home, her things, and me have droppped so far down her priority list, and her complete refusal to even listen to me when I bring it up....causes trouble. resentment. Anger. silence. Im stuck, because I know she is an emotional wreck right now, she keeps telling me that THIS is what she muct do right now, asks me to be her "rock" and be confident in the relationship. My response was... Honey, Im not asking for long walks on the beach from you, just the minimal effort from you. Nothing to take away your energy or patience...just a phone call. A visit. come KISS me. Just an hour. Just show SOMETHING, because right now, you are showing nothing. Give me something to be confident about. I never complained vocally about her lack of affection, because she will spazz out on me, call me needy. Or shes not in the mood. forget about intimacy. As a woman. that loves her man. She should INCLUDE me into her life, not put me aside. Yes, I need sex. Yes, I want you to SHOW me you love me, (not text it). If for only 5 minutes. then go about your way !!! Ill be satisfied !! I get peck kisses, I feel like her gay friend, and I was finding myself supplementing her lack of effort by doing too much. anything she needed....I did, even without her asking. Her family keeps saying what a saint I am, and shes so lucky, and Im a real man, and she doesnt know what she has..etcc THINKING i was being her man. I guess i wasnt. Im being a doormat. 
So now, Im showing strength in myself. Im showing that I have other things to do. that Im keeping busy..(Or at least telling her that I am) hehe. 

This is what Im afraid will happen in the next few days.....
She has been asking me to come visit them at her moms. I do, for the most part. Part of me wants to go, so that I can fulfill my needs to see and spend time with my girl, and her little one, but atthe same time, i wanna scream... YOU HAVE A HOME, YOU SHOULD BE COMING HOME. YOUR MOTHER IS 2 MILES AWAY, and A PHONE CALL AWAY. you are putting all your eggs in one basket, thinking you are doing your mother a favor, but meanwhile WE are falling apart. not ME...WE. and she still doesnt stop to understand that. Jealousy has now entered the picture.... So Im caught trying to show her my strength, but not falling apart because of my own needs. If she asks if Im coming to see them, because SHE wants to see ME? I realllly want to say no. I wanna tell her that she has SOME BAWLLS to get mad that Im not coming to see YOU, when you are CHOOSING not to come home. I dont want it to look like Im making an excuse (too tired...) I want to honestly tell her that I dont want to. I dont want to satisfy her by doing her bidding again.. I respect her situation enough not to start an arguement, but something tells me she will text something to want to start one. Or mention why Ive backed off. I need a response, and Im lost as to what to come up with. With me saying no, me going out, and not initiating the 'good morning text' or 'gnite txt' anymore, I dont want her to think Im drifting or cheating per se, I just want her to be able to OPEN HER EYES and realize that maybeeee shes taking advantage of me, not giving back, and not making the smallest effort of my expectations out of her. Make her take a step back that maybe my strong man is backing away for a REASON..and maybe I SHOULD DO SOMETHIN ABOUT IT. I replaced using the word NEED with Expectation. It just seems to justify my feelings better. Im sorry so longwinded, and I have MUCH more to say.... It just feels good to let it out.
I visited her, her daughter, and her mother and grandmother at the home today. It was SOOO nice. She hugged back, and squeezed me. It felt good. No kiss. I ALWAYS GO FOR THE KISS. tired of iit, so i didnt. Had a good time visiting, I should happiness, instead of my normal mopeyness and trying to hold her. I spoke loudly and smiled alot. Talked about my day, but also listened to the drama they had that day. It was kindof like visiting friends... I told her I was gonna go home...she whimply and cutely said..nooooo dont goooo. Normally this would make me melt, and Id stay. But this time I told her I was on my way to a friends house to visit. I was vague. We hugged tightly,l said I love you...she was sad...didnt want me to go...shes also on her period, apparrently its bad, and shes plain exhausted. I didnt kiss. Not did she. She knows I always TRY for the kiss. Something tells me shes gonna mention it via text tonight, because shes not a confrontational person. She lets her feelings out good, or bad, through through her 4" pain in my butt iphone. So informal. Just once Id like her to lay in bed with me, sincerely look intpo my eyes and tell me something meaningful.
Im all over the place with my thoughts while writing this. Its a rough time for her with her family, and extremely bad timing for me to have this neglect feeling, but its driving me nuts. I dont want to act like an azz, or disrespect her, and I truly want to be there for her. I love her. If she would only just liten, and give back...show me that Im important to her TOO. show me that Im appreciated. Take notice of me backing off, and not question it, jjust DO something about it.

And btw, finding new interests have helped me. Involving myself in my own small passions again has helped.... but what scares me is..the attention I receive from other women, is pulling at my strings. Heavily.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I would hear sarcasm instead of boundaries with the crystal ball comment. "I should have known" is passive aggressive.

As far as the rest... 

High stress can change everything about us when we are going through it. I understand that you feel stressed about being neglected. What do you think is realistically the longest this will continue? 

Can you deal with it for that long and see her requests as her way to try to stay connected? Right now, you're making more demands on her at a time when she's already struggling. Honestly, I think you're being pretty unfair.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

Well I have to include, that this has been going on for about 8 months. Her granma got sick 2 months ago.... So I spent the previous six months acting like a needy, mopey, pathetic, pleading fool to her. It drove her away. "I cant have sex with someone that pleads and looks like a tired begging dog". NOT ATTRACTIVE. I need a man with a spine.... I was stuck thinking that doing more for her would make her HAPPY, and she would logically give back!! I Was DEAD wrong. she was smothered. So once I began realizing that I needed to stop asking more out of her, and do more for ME, it would go noticed, and hopefully Id begin being the man she fell in love with again. And I wouldnt do it for HER, but for ME. I NEED to change my ways, and stop relying on her so much for my own happiness. buttt.... thats when she got sick....and I just want SOMETHING. anything. Walk in my door.... tell me that everything Ive done for her and her daughter means alot. And she didnt want me to feel like it wasnt noticed. and that SHE LOVES me for it. It only seems natural too me. Then grabbed me, and made love to me. I swear to GOD, Id be fine for weeks!!! Im EASY!!! But yes, im trying VERY hard to demand much out of her right now. Very very little. Just a phone call...which takes 2 minutes. "Im too busy and tired??" ok, whatever. more resentment, because i only hear excuses. I read a qoute the other day and it read... "If you truly want something, you'll do it. If you dont, you will make excuses"...and I cant help but to apply that to all of her actions for the last 8 months. I SHOW that I want. It might not be in the language she wants spoken to in, but you would have to be blind to not see the effort in put into this relationship. Im exhausted. Shes spoiled, she knows i have no boundaries, and has naturally taken advatage of it. Now that Im setting them, she will question them. I will need to respond in the most caring, respectfull manner, only because of the heartache shes going through. Just bad timing. But you know what.... just the fact that shes NOTICING, and bringing it UP...means alot to me. That WE are a stress in her life.... Just tired of her expecting me to just go along with everything, and if I dont...its MY fault for looking needy, when she puts ZERO into the relationship. Im trying not to be unfair....trust me.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

And btw...I thought maybe youd see that as sarcasm lol. I truly wouldve came across as a pathetic man saying... you are right honey, I shouldve known better, to know what you are thinking.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Please separate into smaller paragraphs. Thanks. 

I read the first part and if she is refusing to communicate that is a kind of destructive srubborness you have no responsibility for. This isn't a guessing game where you get to hold it against other people by not telling them what they are doing wrong. 

The 180 is self-healing. She may not "come around", which is still a winning situation for you because you will be well on your way to complete independence. Don't rely on it bringing her around, and don't sell yourself short by caving in to minor gestures. If you have a list of concessions as conditional to marriage, list them.

*Hawx20*, you got bumped there but it's because everything is going peachy for you. Congratulations. Stick with the program.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

And its not even that I need to receive affection, I need to GIVE it...and when she doesnt respond to my giving....I honestly dont know if shes into receiving it. If I withhold, and see response, at least Ill know that she misses something she took for granted. This is extremely difficult for me.I feel like Im putting on a facade. Sitting on the other end of the couch isnt what I do. Shes ALSO currently having some selfesteem issues with her weight, which I believe is having an impact on her intimacy. Of course, I love her weight, and of course I can tell her Im blue in the face that I LUST her body....I get no response. And the fact that we dont have sex, I cant even SHOW her.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

Yeah I do apologize. My fingers are going crazy, because I havent let this out to anyone, and I wanna make sure I type it before I forget it. hehe.

I can honestly say that in the last 48 hours, even only seeing her for a couple hours here and there...Im noticing a change in her. Towards me anyways. She hugged tight, and initiated it. Ive gotten several texts saying she misses me. which HASNT been happening when Im acting needy. I want to respond with an I Miss You Too.. But my resentment wants to say, THEN COME HOME. IM RIGHT HERE FOR YOUR TAKING. ugh. thank you so much for your insiights, you have no idea how much you are helping me. Everyone here. Im so glad I took it upon myself to learn about myself, my behavior, and the reasons and causes for it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mothugsta said:


> mothugsta said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have to include, that this has been going on for about 8 months. Her granma got sick 2 months ago.... So I spent the previous six months acting like a needy, mopey, pathetic, pleading fool to her. It drove her away. "I cant have sex with someone that pleads and looks like a tired begging dog". NOT ATTRACTIVE.
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The OP said: "I got married to never have to play those games again. Then, I started telling myself that i'm not playing games, I'm changing myself for the better."

I understand what you are saying, but think of this differently. Think of the "games" as "sex games". When you put it that way, don't you WANT to play sex games for the rest of your marriage?

Couples need to do whatever it takes to keep the sexual tension building in their relationship. When you lose that tension, passion disappears.

The goal of the game isn't for one participant to win over the other. The goal is for both participants to keep having great sex together.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

Well of course I want sex, and Im a BIG fan of teasing, playing, seducing, and midday foreplay. Having fun with it. But I cant even mention a smidgin of anything sexual. No reference, no jokes about anything, and certainly no mention of wanting or planning it. What I wanna do is MAKE it happen. Be strong, and take the lead. But it will push her away, and ruin anything Im working for here. Im going to take this very slow. Im scared. But at the same time I think its unfair that we only have sex when SHE wants to. A lot in me is anxious for the moment where we are laffing, she is a lot stress-free, having a good time, and she initiates sex; (She has before only when she is happy inside, and sees me happy inside), to actually turn HER down. I cant fight this resentment of throwing her words and actions in her face, putting her in my shoes, and screaming, "how do you like it"...in almost every manner i can. If I give in to sex on her first initiation, am i guilty of the same pattern of doing her will? To save the arguement?...or do I do it, because well, it needs to be done. Its MY way of expressing my love, and I need the intimacy, more than the pleasure for me to be happy. I just want her to want to be there for me, even if she doesnt want to. I do A TON of things for her, that I dont need to be doing, but I do it for the love of her and her daughter. for the family.


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