# But WHY is nagging acceptable?



## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

I've always wanted to get married and used to hope that I would be married around the age of 25. I dated lots of women in college, but only a few after graduation. Now, at age 28, I've given up dating all together, and haven't been on a date in over a year. I wish that I would stop allowing my 20s to go to waste, but I simply can't bring myself to subject my self to nagging. It has ruined my opinion of women and dating. I simply don't understand why its something I need to accept. I never nagged any of my girlfriends - why did they insisit upon nagging me? I can't even imagine what being married would be like, given the horrible experience I had with the three girls I dated after college. All were nice enough girls, but they insited upon nagging. WHY??? Is there no hope?:scratchhead:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It can be taken to extremes, of course, but a mate should motivate their partner to become more than they were alone. Guys don't especially like a nagging woman but without them, we'd still be content to live in caves and wear hides. A woman worth having wouldn't want her man appearing in public looking like Joe Crap the Rag Man. She wouldn't want the home looking like a dump. She would probably want her kids clean, fed, and not given deadly weapons as toys. She can't take pride in herself without also having pride in you and any offspring you happen to produce. A woman who consistently remains silent when her husband is screwing up is an indifferent wife. Any man worth anything received a little nagging from someone.


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

Fair enough, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I think a relationship should be fun - that you should enjoy one another's company, not be put off by it. I mean, realtionships are voluntary afterall. Why accept aspects of them that you don't like when you don't have to? Maybe I'm just immature...


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I think you'd have to be more specific here...just what exactly were you being nagged about?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Oh, you want a FUN relationship. I thought you were talking about marriage. My bad.


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I think you'd have to be more specific here...just what exactly were you being nagged about?


Take your pick. "Help me move furniture," "Come to bumblef**k with me to my parents house," "Why don't you ever show up to the library unannounced to surprise me when I'm studying?," "Come to my place and spend 30 minutes looking for a parking space everynight, but I won't ever come to your place," "Take me out to dinner and pay even though I refuse to pay for anything. Ever.," "Be emotionally supportive of me even though you never ask me to be emotionally supportive of you." The list goes on...



unbelievable said:


> Oh, you want a FUN relationship. I thought you were talking about marriage. My bad.


I don't see what's so unreasonable about wanting to have fun. I say spend time together because you want to, doing things that you both happen to enjoy. Don't spend time together because you have to, doing something that you don't want to do just b/c someone else wants you to do it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Louche,

it was a lame attempt at a joke.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

unbelievable said:


> Oh, you want a FUN relationship. I thought you were talking about marriage. My bad.


LOL :rofl:

unbelievable, you sir, are a funny bastard.

The Louche,

No, you're not immature. You are right in your wheel house. Dating is exactly what you should be doing instead of shopping for a wife. Women want you to be fun - but they will also endeavor to choke the fun out of you by pair bonding and domesticating you (hanging out, being emotionally supportive, wondering why you don't pay them more attention, move furniture, meet the family etc.)

Stick to your guns. Make it perfectly clear what your relationship priorities are - so that when she ultimately challenges those priorities (and she will), you can point out the fact "we talked about this ... and you know where I stand."

Don't go changing. You're just fine - but do keep dating.


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

Deejo said:


> LOL :rofl:
> 
> unbelievable, you sir, are a funny bastard.
> 
> ...


This makes me feel better. Thank you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

The Louche said:


> It has ruined my opinion of women and dating. I simply don't understand why its something I need to accept. I never nagged any of my girlfriends - why did they insisit upon nagging me?


It isn't the nicest form of communication. It would be nice if everyone knew how to communicate well. Alas it is something most people have to LEARN. YOU could learn some and thus model good communication and boundary setting skills.

Or you could just dump whoever nags. 




> I can't even imagine what being married would be like, given the horrible experience I had with the three girls I dated after college. All were nice enough girls, but they insited upon nagging. WHY??? Is there no hope?:scratchhead:


THREE??!!? Date more. Meet someone nice.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Oh, you want a FUN relationship. I thought you were talking about marriage. My bad.


Hey now....


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> It isn't the nicest form of communication. It would be nice if everyone knew how to communicate well. Alas it is something most people have to LEARN. YOU could learn some and thus model good communication and boundary setting skills.
> 
> Or you could just dump whoever nags.
> 
> ...


Three that I dated seriously. I've been out with a few more girls than that, but not many. My motivation is so sapped! Why even bother to go out with somebody at all when I know its just going to end in nagging??!!


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

Get back out and date until you find THE girl, when you and your girl are in love things like moving furniture are something you want to do for her and long drives to her parents will be things you will enjoy.

You will be emotionally supportive of each other and she won't even have to ask you to show up and surprise her unexpectedly, she will already be on your mind.

Marriage is a different animal than dating is, but if proper lines of communication are set in place you shouldn't feel like you are being nagged all the time either.

Some good reading material on the subject:

Making relationships work: The art of arguing

Get Her To Stop Nagging Also touches on opening up the lines of communication if you read it to the end and has some good examples.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Holy cow! You should not write off all women because you had three serious relationships in your early 20s that were with women who just saw you as someone to entertain them.

Might want to ratchet up your dating frequency and broaden your pool of women.

You do know that both you and the women of your age group are more mature than just after college and will get more so going forward?

Trust me, if you are wife shopping and reasonably intelligent and employed, you will find someone interested in you. But not if you whine about nagging right off the bat.

Just be yourself and if nagging starts, talk to her about it.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

My opinion: some of it might just be you. Some of the examples you gave, I can see how they are...well, not nagging, necessarily, but definitely not a good way to behave. Others, I think it might just be the way you took it but it wasn't intended as nagging. Asking you to come meet their parents, to me, is not nagging but is an attempt to move the relationship forward. Asking why you don't surprise them at the library...if asked once, I think it's a legit question, asked more than once could be nagging. 

I also think that if you're noticing this same thing with ALL the women you've dated, it's time to consider that the problem is either you taking things wrong or looking at why you continue to choose women who nag. 

Plus, I notice more than once that you say you "know" it will lead to/end in nagging. You will always find what you expect...even if it doesn't really exist. If you're determined that a woman will nag you, then her simply saying "hello" to you will be nagging. 

I get that you're frustrated after having so many dates/relationships go sour. But I would get back out there, try to be more optimistic and see what happens.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

I think you need to do 2 things:

1. LEARN HOW TO JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE BETTER. We are taught that judging is somehow "bad," but it's something you need to learn so you can get a good feel for a girl's personality and character before you get serious. Most women have a tendency to want to nag, but it's easy to spot a girl who is a soul-sucking gold digging leech, compared to one who just wants you to pay her some attention and meet her wonderful family and help her with her furniture because you're so strong...etc. The trick is finding someone who you get along with and who you will listen to you when you explain that it's important to you not to be nagged.

2. STOP INCENTIVIZING NAGGING BEHAVIOR. If you cave and help her every time she nags, what does she learn? That nagging gets her what she wants. If a child screams and cries and throws a fit in the middle of the grocery store because they want a candy bar, and then they get a candy bar, then they will cry even harder the next time they want something. 

As a female, I actually don't enjoy nagging. I do enjoy when my boyfriend is competent and gets things done without being asked. Keep in mind that not everyone nags--you just have to make it an attractive option NOT to nag. You can do this by not caving, and by taking initiative without being asked--ie: occasionally, just help her with something that needs to get done WITHOUT being asked. This shows that you care about her, but that you do things on your terms. If you always do everything she says, you look like a pushover; if you never do anything she asks, then you just look lazy. Find a good balance.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh, AND. If you want to get married, unfortunately that means you'll probably have to drive out to Boondock, North Dakota to meet her tractor-drivin' dern near toothless family. 

Just like she'll have to deal with YOUR crazy family. I'm sure you know your family is absolutely perfect though. So it's not a burden for her; it's a privilege to meet them.


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## OoiTsumi (Sep 18, 2010)

Hmmm.. well, it seems you approach dating like a causal thing, so yeah, nagging might bring that down to reality. I mean, as a woman, I for one would tell you what I do and don't like even if it were simply nagging to you. I wouldn't want to be with someone who found my "nagging" irritating instead of hearing and caring about my concerns. Care or don't and if its don't, see ya, I say. Everyone has things they do and don't like, and that's fine. To me there are far worse things to end a relationship over ie. Drug use, abuse, compulsive lying or infidelity. Seems petty to me. 

If your question is do all woman nag? No. But if you are asking for a woman who never tells you her concerns or complaints about you or the relationship, I think your out of luck. At least with women here in America. In America, girls are raised up early on that they are fine the way they are and they need no man. Men are to compete for attention. That if change needs to occur in a relationship, its more then likely the man who needs to change, or lose to one that is willing to. Woman are taught you don't need to change for anyone, especially a man. Men on the other hand have to figure out how to get the womans attention so, more sacrifice is obviously made. If not the fear of being alone may be a reality. 

Are all woman raised that way and follow it? No, just gotta keep looking or re- evaluate how important it is to you to truly stick to your guns for a non-nagging woman.


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

There are some really good points here. Thanks for the advice.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Only women nag? I can tell you that my husband could go toe-to-toe with any nagging woman (or man) anyday.

The difference is that men see women as nags but see themselves as offering advice or constructive criticism.

That's why men are from mars and women are from venus.

Look at what your actual definition of nagging is. Webster's says: to find fault incessantly, to be a persistent source of annoyance or distraction, to irritate by constantly scolding or urging.

Could it be that you've become too sensitive and hear EVERYTHING as nagging and so you are pre-disposed everytime you meet a girl that she is going to nag so everything she says sounds like a nag? 

And I fail to see how "help me move furniture," "take me out to dinner and pay," etc., is nagging - I'm confused here. 

It takes two to make a relationship - look and yourself and see what your expectations are, how you are really hearing what the women you date are saying, etc. You say that you have never nagged any of the women you have dated, how do you know - did you ask?


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Only women nag? I can tell you that my husband could go toe-to-toe with any nagging woman (or man) anyday.
> 
> The difference is that men see women as nags but see themselves as offering advice or constructive criticism.
> 
> ...


You said it yourself, Webster defines nagging as "a persistent source of annoyance." Its annoying to always have to do chores and pay for someone you're dating. Dating is supposed to fun. Chores and paying aren't fun. One of these girls "took me out" for my birthday, and then let me pay. WTF??

And I know it takes two to tango, but I really go out of my way not to nag. For example, I drove 45 minutes each way (live in a big congested city) to pick some things up from the cleaner's once when I was dating my last girlfriend. Thing is, the cleaner's was a block from her office, and she could have very easily picked the things up for me, saving me the trip. But I refused to ask her to do it b/c I didn't want to put her out. And I would never dream of asking a girl to help me hang pictures or re-arrange my furniture. I don't get it.

I guess its just impossible to have your cake and eat it too. There's no such thing as being able to spend enjoyable time with someone without also having to spend highly un-enjoyable time with them as well.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

The Louche said:


> And I would never dream of asking a girl to help me hang pictures or re-arrange my furniture. I don't get it.


Hmm, maybe if you didn't get bothered by hanging the occasional picture on the wall of shoving the couch to the other wall, you might find out something about women.

See, they have this amazing way of rewarding their guy. You may have heard of it? It involves getting naked.....


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## The Louche (Dec 2, 2010)

michzz said:


> Hmm, maybe if you didn't get bothered by hanging the occasional picture on the wall of shoving the couch to the other wall, you might find out something about women.
> 
> See, they have this amazing way of rewarding their guy. You may have heard of it? It involves getting naked.....


One of my points is that this behavior is inequitable. I don't ask them to move my couch, why am I moving their's? 

And I wouldn't ahve so much of a problem with it if they didn't act like it was expected - "You're my boyfriend so you will do chores for me." Asking nicely wouldn't hurt.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

The Louche said:


> You said it yourself, Webster defines nagging as "a persistent source of annoyance." Its annoying to always have to do chores and pay for someone you're dating. Dating is supposed to fun. Chores and paying aren't fun. One of these girls "took me out" for my birthday, and then let me pay. WTF??
> 
> And I know it takes two to tango, but I really go out of my way not to nag. For example, I drove 45 minutes each way (live in a big congested city) to pick some things up from the cleaner's once when I was dating my last girlfriend. Thing is, the cleaner's was a block from her office, and she could have very easily picked the things up for me, saving me the trip. But I refused to ask her to do it b/c I didn't want to put her out. And I would never dream of asking a girl to help me hang pictures or re-arrange my furniture. I don't get it.
> 
> I guess its just impossible to have your cake and eat it too. There's no such thing as being able to spend enjoyable time with someone without also having to spend highly un-enjoyable time with them as well.


Ok, I'm NOT trying to nag, but I will offer what I perceive to be constructive advice  

DRY CLEANING
Ok HERE'S where I think you're being unreasonable. It almost seems like you WANTED to have such a long drive so you could feel so proud and like such a martyr for getting your own dry cleaning. And so you could brag about how you would never ask your girlfriend for help blah blah blah. That is a scenario where she totally should have helped you out for the pure sake of reason. Speaking of reason, if you live in a big city, surely there's a dry cleaning place somewhere nearer than 45 minutes away?! I don't get it; I don't think this is a situation you should feel proud of at all. Feeling proud for never taking help from anyone can get you in trouble. You seem to want to complain about always giving help but never receiving, but you generate those situations for yourself by never asking, even when it's reasonable to ask. 

I agree, the girl "taking you out" to your birthday was being unreasonable. I get that chores/paying aren't fun, and you shouldn't always be the one to do everything. But I think there are ways you can improve these situations for yourself. 

CHORES
If your girlfriend would like help with chores, I think it's legitimate for you to help SOMETIMES. As in, she cooks you a beautiful amazing dinner, you should offer to do the dishes. But like I said earlier, it's better if you offer to help without being asked sometimes--this so that A. you will totally avoid being nagged, and B. you look wayyy better in her eyes if you volunteer rather than wait for her to ask you. So volunteer sometimes, politely decline other times. If she asks, make your decision right away. If you say yes, that's ok! It's not a sign of weakness to help out occasionally. BUT, if you say no, hold firm if she keeps asking...Saying no, and then waiting until she's whined 5 minutes and then caving IS a sign of weakness.

PAYING
This one's tricky. You really should be paying for dinner on certain occasions (anniversary, first date, her birthday, etc.) but NOT on others (she asks YOU out to a nice restaurant, it's YOUR birthday, etc.) My advice is this: take her out a couple of times, and if she doesn't offer to pay/split the tab with you, then don't ask her again. If she expresses interest in going out to dinner, or whines that you "never take her out ever anymore" then you can playfully suggest that she pay--counter her whining and pouting with your own (funny, fake) whining like "you never surprise me anymore... Sometimes a guy just has to be romanced" or something else equivalently funny and over the top. If she doesn't get the message and take you out, hey, at least you didn't have to pay for another unappreciated meal out. But custom dictates that you pay the majority of the time (I think a generally accepted rule is you treat 3 times for every 1 time she treats).


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Um...

Usually when a person complains: "ALL those people do xyz" (for example, nag) the only common factor is the person complaining.

Instead of asking yourself why "THEY ALL" nagged or nag, ask yourself what YOU were doing, thinking, feeling in all those relationships. As a single person, it's the perfect opportunity to learn enough about yourself to be ready for the woman who you'll feel happy with, not nagged by.

Is there something inside you that attracts you to women who nag you about certain things?

It sounds like you're looking for an answer about "women" in general, when it would be more helpful to look for answers about yourself first. 

You may not be as baffled about other people's behaviors, when you understand your own more deeply.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

The Louche said:


> One of my points is that this behavior is inequitable. I don't ask them to move my couch, why am I moving their's?
> 
> And I wouldn't ahve so much of a problem with it if they didn't act like it was expected - "You're my boyfriend so you will do chores for me." Asking nicely wouldn't hurt.


Sharing in life's little things is something you can enjoy. Your attitude is of treating it like you're being beaten like a rented mule. 

BTW, is there no give in take like I hinted at below?:



michzz said:


> See, they have this amazing way of rewarding their guy. You may have heard of it? It involves getting naked.....


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

lime said:


> Oh, AND. If you want to get married, unfortunately that means you'll probably have to drive out to Boondock, North Dakota to meet her tractor-drivin' dern near toothless family.


Hot DAMN. That was funny.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Hot DAMN. That was funny.


Thanks! 


I just thought of one more useful piece of advice when it comes to chores or other boyfriendly duties...
DO NOT WHINE. EVER. If you say you will help, then help. Don't agree then b*tch and moan and cry like a four-year-old the whole time. You made a conscious choice to help, so help. Whining or dragging your feet or acting all reluctant is passive aggressive behavior. You want to avoid this because it is a sign of weakness, it is a sign that you're letting her control you against your will, it is unattractive to pretty much all women, and it is just downright annoying. Even more annoying than nagging in my book. If you don't want to do something, then don't do it. Trust me, it will be way better than agreeing and then acting like a bratty little kid the whole time. Just some helpful advice in case you're ever tempted


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

If she's nagging you and you're not married yet you are in big trouble when you get married...


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## somegirl (Oct 20, 2010)

I think that if something you can do by yourself you should never ask for help. And if someone asks me for something and I can do it I will. Very simple. 
If you don't want to surprise your girl or help her with something - you are just not into her. 
About paying - it is very personal. I come from a culture where it is common to pay for a woman if you go out, may be if she is just a friend or it's a business then she pays for herself. I think the best way it's one time you pay another time she pays. 
Also, think about all the money she has to spend just to look good - hair, manicure, clothes, makeup. She does it for herself but also for you and paying for her when you go out just shows respect and appreciation. IMHO.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

somegirl said:


> I think that if something you can do by yourself you should never ask for help. And if someone asks me for something and I can do it I will. Very simple.
> If you don't want to surprise your girl or help her with something - you are just not into her.
> About paying - it is very personal. I come from a culture where it is common to pay for a woman if you go out, may be if she is just a friend or it's a business then she pays for herself. I think the best way it's one time you pay another time she pays.
> Also, think about all the money she has to spend just to look good - hair, manicure, clothes, makeup. She does it for herself but also for you and paying for her when you go out just shows respect and appreciation. IMHO.


Don't know...I love that my husband is the fixer guy and I'm the domestic girl. It makes my life easier and I make his easier and it is both sweet and amusing. I don't have the need or desire to be able to do everything. I'm in a partnership and we work together on each other's strengths. We both nag when we're unhappy about something but otherwise it's our rhythm.

My 5 year old son's bug light wouldn't work and I checked it out for him and he says to me, "Mom don't bother just tell Dad it's broken and he'll fix it."

My husband came home and when I told him the story he was filled with pride since my son was recognizing his fix it skills and we both laughed about it. 

At the same token, no one is going to go to my husband for dinner. They know they'll be getting a choice of Taco Bell, McDonald's, Wendy's or Burger King and they're not too fond of that.


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## somegirl (Oct 20, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Don't know...I love that my husband is the fixer guy and I'm the domestic girl. It makes my life easier and I make his easier and it is both sweet and amusing. I don't have the need or desire to be able to do everything. I'm in a partnership and we work together on each other's strengths. We both nag when we're unhappy about something but otherwise it's our rhythm.
> 
> My 5 year old son's bug light wouldn't work and I checked it out for him and he says to me, "Mom don't bother just tell Dad it's broken and he'll fix it."
> 
> ...


When you are married it's different. You have a household and one cannot do everything, but when you are just dating you managed somehow before so why now you need help? 
I dated one guy long time ago and he was buying me flowers and gifts and did a lot of things for me. I knew his previous girlfriend and she told me that he never bought flowers for her. I asked him about it and he told me that he did not do it for her because she expected he will do it and I never expected and asked for anything, so he enjoyed surprising me.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

somegirl said:


> When you are married it's different. You have a household and one cannot do everything, but when you are just dating you managed somehow before so why now you need help?
> I dated one guy long time ago and he was buying me flowers and gifts and did a lot of things for me. I knew his previous girlfriend and she told me that he never bought flowers for her. I asked him about it and he told me that he did not do it for her because she expected he will do it and I never expected and asked for anything, so he enjoyed surprising me.


I can't remember not being married :scratchhead:

But I'm pretty sure I was always into getting guys to do things for me and using my femininity to get this done. Don't you remember high school and elementary school...guys carrying your books to class, having them send you candy grams, walking you home if it got dark outside, riding double on the bike (them pedaling), borrowing your boyfriends sweater/jacket when you were cold, having the hot vocational guy look at your crappy car for free and fixing it as a pet project...I could go on and on and on.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think the OP's plight is a variation of an old pearl of wisdom.

"why buy the barn when you get the hay for free?"


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## somegirl (Oct 20, 2010)

Trenton said:


> I can't remember not being married :scratchhead:
> 
> But I'm pretty sure I was always into getting guys to do things for me and using my femininity to get this done. Don't you remember high school and elementary school...guys carrying your books to class, having them send you candy grams, walking you home if it got dark outside, riding double on the bike (them pedaling), borrowing your boyfriends sweater/jacket when you were cold, having the hot vocational guy look at your crappy car for free and fixing it as a pet project...I could go on and on and on.


That's right, they did it because they wanted  Because they saw a woman in you and they wanted to care and help. But if they don't see it in you then they call it nagging.  
They guy had wrong girls, when he is going to meet the right one he will do everything without been asked.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

somegirl said:


> That's right, they did it because they wanted  Because they saw a woman in you and they wanted to care and help. But if they don't see it in you then they call it nagging.
> They guy had wrong girls, when he is going to meet the right one he will do everything without been asked.


Now I'm with you. It's either what you say above or the guys a dope. That is a possibility.

Isn't everything suppose to be fun?....uh....uh....uh....DUH!


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

It sounds very much to me as though you just haven't found someone that you really click with. A lot of the things you describe as "nagging" sound to me like just the things you expect when you are boyfriend/girlfriend with someone rather than just hanging out and dating. 

I would absolutely expect my boyfriend to meet my family, I'd ask them to help me with something I couldn't manage, (like moving some furniture) and if I wanted or needed something more from the relationship, I'd address it. I wouldn't have those same expectations from someone that I was just occasionally having dinner with or whatever. But on the other hand, I'd be totally willing to do the same for him.

The trick though IS in asking nicely, and somewhere less than 50 times, I'd imagine. 

It sounds to me too that you have a pretty solid comfort zone being on your own and independent. I get that, my husband is like that, actually. He takes care of most of his own details in his life and has very little desire for me to be any kind of emotional sounding board to him. I'm pretty similar, so it works well for us. However, being in a relationship, we've both relaxed A LOT. We don't take nearly as much pride in "taking care of everything myself", we help each other and let the other help us. You can't have it both ways, an intimate and marriage-bound relationship where all you do is have fun with no obligations. 

I think that breaks from dating can be a good thing oftentimes. It can give you a chance to do some thinking about what you're looking for. For example, if the girls that you're dating long-term and calling "girlfriend" would truly be inconvenienced by walking a block and picking up some dry cleaning, then it might be worth a break to think about how you're finding and picking this sort of person to be with.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

The Louche said:


> There's no such thing as being able to spend enjoyable time with someone without also having to spend highly un-enjoyable time with them as well.


How true...:smthumbup:


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I think the OP doesn't know the difference between what's generally acceptable behavior, and what's nagging. If I were his g/f, I'd ask a hot neighbor guy to help me move the furniture. Passive aggressive much? Oh well, a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

michzz said:


> "why buy the barn when you get the hay for free?"


answer: "because the barn is freaking awesome!"


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