# Found my girls old love letters



## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Hello,

My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.

I have had a few blow-ups when we’ve gone out, when I felt she should be a little less inviting when guys at the bar approach her. Overall, we can discuss issues and have both declared our love for each other, but little things come up that cause me uncertainty.

When cleaning her basement a few weeks ago, I discovered two shoe boxes full of old letters from high school and college love interests. I didn’t want to read them, so I just put them away, but took note that there was about 6 different guys. 

Then, just the other day, when I was cleaning some books out from under her bed, I found a notebook with rough drafts of love letters she had written to a guy she dated while still married. She apparently was in love with this guy while deciding to file for divorce, and the depth of her emotion was very hard for me to read.

I know it was from years ago, but I’m discouraged that she wouldn’t make sure to dispose of that kind of stuff, especially since I sleep there several nights each week.

I’m beginning to realize that she has had nothing but boyfriends her whole life, and I’m starting to question if I’m at all special. It’s a very sad realization. 

I really do believe she loves me in a special way, but knowing all about all,of her old flames has gotten under my skin. What do you think?

Should I...

Just forget about it, and enjoy what I have with her?

Let her know that I found all the letters, and ask about why she keeps them around?

Feel guilty for snooping?

I don’t want to overthink it, so,any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Cheaters have a flaw in their character, and it tends to repeat it's self. And she did this while married sounds like she's hypergamous, always looking for the better deal.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First don't feel guilty. You were not snooping. Unless you are feeding us a line, you simply discovered them in the normal course of cleaning.

However, don't necessarily equate her past with how she feels now about you. I have fond memories of several past lovers, two of who jump right to the front. But I'm not with them now. I'm with my spouses. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, and reliving those memories. Hell my one wife has saved so much of her son's school papers, she still has blank permission slips and newsletter that in no way mention him or anything he was involved in.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

No you should not let she know of the letters, but you may rethink this relationship though. And save you a boat load full of crap. And your are special and because of that you should run from this train wreck, and find some one who will be loyal and loving to you. 

Of if you stay you will just be added to the list of her failures. Why did she keep them trophies, and if she cared for you she would have disposed of them.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I think you ought to end your relationship with her immediately.

Since you don't need to be burdened, with a desire to compare yourself with her past. Just as she doesn't need to be burdened, with a man who seems incredibly insecure and feels like he is competing with her past.

Of which it is worth noting that her past absent you, does not belong to you and doesn't have anything to do with you.

As to her having "boyfriends her whole life", I hope she enjoyed herself and had lots of fun. Just as I hope you have enjoyed yourself and had lots of fun, with whomever you have been with in your past.

Likewise with respect to keeping letters and the like, she is entitled to keep any keepsakes from her past as she wishes. Her memories belong to her and do not belong to you.

In closing for your own good unless you have some sort of fetish for domestic cleaning and servitude, I recommend that you not tidy up stuff under other peoples beds and in their basements.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you told her that you read the her letters?

If so what has she said?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> ...


If she was measuring up to what I expected and required in my relationship with her, I wouldn't give a fig about it.

Is she rocking your world? Satisfying you emotionally? Stimulating companion? 

If the answer is yes to those questions, nothing else would matter much to me.

If you have issues with her current behavior with you, and it sounds like you do, address them to see if she wants to work with you on it.

She has a less colorful past than my wife and I'm very satisfied with Mrs. Conan.

I'm generally not a guy that is too worried about the past but much more focused on the present and future.

My past was very "colorful" as well but it was a future with the present "me" that my future wife was interested in.

Discuss any current issues but don't worry about the past unless she has more than notes following her around.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. why is she inviting to random men when you go out?

Has that issue been resolved?

It is really the only thing you posted that sounds concerning.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I'm with ConanHub on this one. Your letting the past eat at you. 

You here often about the girls that don't release their past and it is post like this that makes it easy to see why.

The One Red Flag: A little too inviting with the other guys.

I would at most times say yes indeed it is a red flag but with your insecurities about her past I would likely think (maybe incorrectly) that your insecurities are getting at you again.

Her past is the past and nothing more. Is she who you want and need her to be today ???? 

Don't dig in her stuff.

Enjoy being a boyfriend. If that is a role you don't like to entertain too long you should let her know.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> ...



You sound a bit creepy, it is normal she had a life before you.
If she makes u feel so insecure, maybe she is not the one for you?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@Loveherorleave? Your girlfriend has had an entire life before you met her. And she is allowed to have her memories of her life before you, positive or negative, and she is allowed to keep items the remind her of people she has loved before she met you.

These letters have nothing to do with your relationship with you. The letters in the basement? She probably never looks at them--she probably has forgotten that they are there, especially if she knew you were going to be cleaning. If she was worried about you finding them, she would have hidden them better. The same goes for the notebook with the letters she wrote but didn't send... the fact that she kept that notebook is a little troublesome, but who knows? She could be holding on to it to remind herself of who she was because she doesn't want to be a cheater again.

The fact of the matter is, there are probably everyday things all around the house that remind her of former partners, but you don't notice them or assign the same importance to them because they don't have a former partner's name on them. 

For example, my favorite blanket was purchased on a trip to Mexico with my ex-husband. I love that blanket because it's big and it's super warm. It also happens to remind me of a point in time when he and I were actually happy in our marriage. But me keeping the blanket doesn't mean that I am pining for my ex-husband or that I want him back, because I am a different person now than I was then... and the blanket is a reminder of that, too.

My point is, items only carry the meaning that we assign to them. Without us to give them meaning, they don't mean anything... you're making assumptions that these letters mean something to your girlfriend, when they more than likely mean something entirely different for her, or perhaps mean nothing at all. Don't read into something that isn't there. If you really want to know where her head is, pay attention to her words, her actions and her behavior. That will tell you far more than anything you might imagine about some old letters that have far less meaning than you are ascribing to them.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Your dating for a reason right? It's a test. So far you know she may have cheated on her husband (depending on the timing) and also for you she is too flirty when she is out and you are there no less. 

Doesn't sound like she is the best choice for you, love letters or not. Which incidentally I don't think is a big deal, if it weren't for the other two things I listed above. People have lives and retroactive jealousy is just weak, but it sounds like you are not really good with that. 

Honestly, it's hard to tell if one of the issues with the guys is also because are just a jealous person or there is real disrespect, I mean you are jealous of her past so maybe it's you? Whatever it is you two don't match well that is for sure. You both need different types of people. She needs a confident guy and you need someone who is not so into the chase.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Loveherorleave? said:


> When cleaning her basement a few weeks ago, I discovered two shoe boxes full of old letters from high school and college love interests. I didn’t want to read them, so I just put them away, but took note that there was about 6 different guys.
> 
> Then, just the other day, when I was cleaning some books out from under her bed, I found a notebook with rough drafts of love letters she had written to a guy she dated while still married. She apparently was in love with this guy while deciding to file for divorce, and the depth of her emotion was very hard for me to read.


So who's bright idea was it to say you weren't snooping. How else could you have known there were letters to 6 different guys in the shoebox if you weren't snooping? How else could you have known the notebook were pages of rough drafts of love letters.....while she was still married.....that she was apparently in love with the guy while deciding to file for divorce......and the depth of her emotion was *very hard for you to read*???

You were snooping and had no business snooping. There are times snooping is necessary, such as when a person suspects their partner of cheating. But you had no reason to snoop in her private letters at all. No reason to open the shoeboxes and go through them and no reason to open and read the notebook.

I can't believe how so very insanely insecure and jealous you are, not to mention violating her privacy. I am now wondering about your blow ups over guys at the bar. It sounds like it's all just your insecurity and jealousy......your imagination, just like all this silliness you've imagined over her love letters from years ago that have absolutely nothing to do with you. I'm also thinking she has no idea what she's gotten herself into. She needs to run as fast as she can in the other direction.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Deleted


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Are you her *maid *or her boyfriend?

You only sleep there a couple times a week, it's not like you live there. Yet, you've taken it upon yourself to stick your nose in every nook and cranny of her house - on the pretense of '_cleaning_' - and it's paid off handsomely for you because you just keep finding all these secret letters that you claim you "don't want to read." 

The woman is 50+ years old. Did you REALLY expect to be the first one to peel the bubble wrap off her like she was brand new with no past at all? Good lord.

I think you went *looking* for stuff and you kept digging until you *found *it. Jeez, at least OWN it since it's so painfully obvious.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@loveitorleave?, You posted this last month
https://talkaboutmarriage.com/gener...ed-some-outside-perspective.html#post19999689

And now you are posting about love letters you "found" while cleaning. 

You sound like you have big insecurity issues and are dating a supremely confident woman. That combination never turns out well. 

You can either fix your insecurity issues or break up with your girlfriend.

You have the power to fix this. Choice is yours. 

Moderator Note:. I let your first thread stand without closing it hoping you'd return to address some of the comments. You never did. Due to the nature of this thread topic, I will close this one down in a few days if you don't come back to at least acknowledge you're reading it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Having read both of your posts - you need to lighten up. You're with a woman who is friendly and outgoing and that attracts people. It attracted you, didn't it? Sulking because you don't want to engage in conversation with a stranger is not attractive. 

It isn't her fault that you are not as friendly as she and if you keep trying to stifle her, she will feel controlled and smothered and ultimately dump the wet blanket. What you can do is insert yourself into the conversations. Or, find yourself a little church-mouse of a woman.

Stop digging through her things. You don't live there and have no right.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

To be honest, we could spin this ten ways to Sunday, in your favor or not.

We decided to be fair and bounce our response, leaving the spinning to others.

You have feelings for this lady, but also fears. You certainly have shown insecurity.

It is good that you did your due-diligence and found out that she is a passionate women with a vibrant past.
She is a women who cannot 'seem' to hold onto a man for long. 

So, she either has a bad man picker, or, she enjoys bouncing from one relationship to another. 
She enjoys the chase, can suffer through the failures.

When she picked you, it was a man picker mistake on her part. You 'are' too insecure for 'most' women.
I give you credit for noticing that she looks like a social butterfly. Which is fine if she is capable of fidelity.
Her love letters to that OM, that other man while married signals that she is capable of straying...while married.

I can say that she may 'now' be able to settle down with one man and one love interest.
But, you have doubts, many would feel the same way.

I agree, her flirting with men in bars signals to them (and you) that she loves the attention she gets from strange men.
OK, red flag.

She 'may' be too easy.
Too easy??

She may be too easily distracted by a new love interest. She may allow her present emotions to swamp any older ones. 
May.

She may be like this.

I can say that your insecurities, your jealousy, and your fears will soon drive her away. And then you will lose her, not the other way around.
She is who she is, she is who she was. Ah, just an older version of her.

*Personally, I would not marry her. You two are not compatible at the core level. You approach life from different perspectives.*
She frightens you with her actions, and will do so until she is well past 60 years old.

Those letters that you inappropriately read will forever haunt you. The content will keep you doubting. You know this, right?

She kept them because she is sentimental and because she is a hopeless romantic. 
This is all fine for her, but not fine with you.


Marrying her would be a bit of a gamble and you sound like a person adverse to risk-some bets.

Pass on her, or just date her for fun.

If you decide to stick with her, you don't have to marry next year, you can give it two or three more years before you decide.



THM's


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> First don't feel guilty. You were not snooping. Unless you are feeding us a line, you simply discovered them in the normal course of cleaning.
> 
> However, don't necessarily equate her past with how she feels now about you. I have fond memories of several past lovers, two of who jump right to the front. But I'm not with them now. I'm with my *spouses*. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, and reliving those memories. Hell my one wife has saved so much of her son's school papers, she still has blank permission slips and newsletter that in no way mention him or anything he was involved in.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


You have spouses as in plural?

Hey, ok with me, but....how did you pull this off ??👍👍🤣🤣🤣😉😉😉


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

You are both in your mid 50's. Did you expect her to have waited for you and not dated or loved anyone all her life? Have you had romantic relationships throughout your life? Just because you didn't save all the letters doesn't mean that your relationships are more acceptible than hers.

You need to tell her that you read her letters and have a serious discussion about your lack of respect/boundaries.

You were cleaning out her basement. Obviously those letters were not pined over anymore, and were probably forgotten.

Your only decision is if you want to be in a relationship with someone who saves momentos from past relationships.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Where's Waldo?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You have spouses as in plural?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, ok with me, but....how did you pull this off ??


Yes, two wives and a husband. Obviously not all legally recognized. I'm not going to thread jack this thread any beyond this though. Feel free to PM or start a specific thread if you want to know more. I'm not shy.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Lila said:


> @loveitorleave?, You posted this last month
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/gener...ed-some-outside-perspective.html#post19999689
> 
> And now you are posting about love letters you "found" while cleaning.
> ...


I also have a change of opinion, your insecurities are unworthy, of this relationship. What she does to enjoy the rest of her life, is to live it to the fullest. Follow her lead or leave spare her the misery of trying to please you, l do think your unhealthy is going overboard in this relationship. Stop it or you will be alone.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

The initial replies to this thread are laughable to me. If anything I think its her that should dump him. Why is OP so concerned with her past? She is with him now? Also...he is NOT her husband. All he found was old love letters. Big deal. I know women that still have the letters I wrote to them when I was in high school and college. Some people like to hold onto things like that. 

It sounds to me like the OP is not ready for an adult relationship with an attractive appealing woman. If you want to date you are going to have to accept that you aren't her first, and probably want be her last. You'll also have to deal with admirers, and all the guys she friend zoned that haven't quite figured out its never going to happen. 

All I have to say to the OP is quit focusing on things that are irrelevant. Having a girlfriend is freaking cool, you get to have sex a lot, have fun hanging out, and also have your own space too!!! Sounds like a win-win to me. Many of us divorced folks like it so much we may never tie the not again. My girlfriend almost feel like getting married might ruin things. If I were the OP, I would forget I saw anything and just focus on enjoying the relationship.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

She's had nothing but boyfriends her entire life...

OK, so you've pre-qualified her as heterosexual I guess? 

I think you need to tell your gf that you found her letters and discuss them, quickly. Because she deserves to know what and how you think every bit as much as you believe you need to know about her. The crisis you create from this will determine whether it makes sense for the two of you to stay in a relationship together. I suspect the answer is obvious, but who knows. If she's comfortable with her past, and you aren't, then it's game over, right? If she's not comfortable with her past, and wants to talk about it, then maybe there's something to talk about. If she's not comfortable about her past and thinks it's none of your concern, leave her be.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Hi Lila,

I tried to reply to a response from my first post, and was blocked. So, I just read the replies, and appreciated them, but figured I didn’t have reply privileges. 

I’ll continue to make that effort with this one, although the replies have already given me a lot to think about. 

Thank you for offering this site. It’s been very helpful!


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks to each of you who have taken time to reply!

To those who said I am a “snooper”, it’s really not the case. We have discussed moving in together, and her house has 20 years of clutter built up. In order to clean it out and prepare to sell next spring, as we’ve planned, it needs a LOT of clutter removal. She knows that, and that it won’t happen unless I help. I completely happened upon the letters in the basement, and put them away without a further look.

When I found her notebook of letters in the mess of children’s books piled up under the bed, it looked like a school notebook, so I wasn’t sure what to do with it. It didn’t belong with the other books, and I opened it simply to figure out the content so I could organize it properly. I had no intent of digging, but was compelled to read as it took me so by surprise. I imagine most of you would have done the same.

I don’t believe I am insecure, but rather hyper-sensitive to insecurities. In other words, I go out of my way to make sure I don’t put my girl into awkward social situations or create any reason for my girl to feel uncomfortable when we’re out. I want her to know I am expressly committed to her. Unfortunately, it begins to gnaw at me when reciprocation is not apparent.

My gf expressed worries about a girl who liked me when we first met, and I put an end to it immediately by eliminating any interaction with her. When we go out, I am conscious of the length of time I spend in conversations with women, and certainly am not poking around the bar trying to strike up casual chats with random girls. However, if we end up near a guy neither of us knows, she will almost always end up in a conversation. I DO engage in the conversation, but DON’T enjoy spending the majority of our time out together chatting with some male stranger.

In my experience, guys make the “approach”, not the girls. ‘So’, I tell her, ‘you allowing random guys to strike up a friendly chat is equivalent to me bopping around seeking friendly chats with the ladies’. When I ask how that would make her feel, she looks at me in disbelief, like it’s a ridiculous notion. And, of course, it is. Then ‘why’, I ask, ‘is it OK for you to be so receptive to extending a chat with a guy you don’t know?’ 

She says she’s just a nice person, uncomfortable with the idea of appearing mean, and doesn’t think there is anything wrong with an innocent conversation. The replies to my first post on this topic indicated that we all know what guys are ‘up to’, and that any extension of a random chat with a cute lady is a bit of an invitation. 

So, a couple of follow-up conversations with my gf centered on the idea that when we go out and ‘we’ get into a conversation with a random guy, I expect it to be courteous, fun, and SHORT. When it starts to become comfortable, and I see the guy figuring out that he can ‘settle in’ and make quite a night of this chat, it makes me uncomfortable, even if I maintain engagement in the conversation. For those of you who say this is me being a ‘wet blanket’, so be it. I’d like to watch you have to deal with it.

I’m not into playing games, and am just looking for equal respect. I don’t keep pictures and letters from old girlfriends, specifically to make sure my current girl doesn’t get put in a yucky situation having to figure out why I keep them. I have my memories, but out of respect for the purity of the current relationship, I don’t feel it’s appropriate to have stuff like that around, whether it’s searched for, or stumbled upon.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I've never gone up to another couple at a restaurant or bar I don't know and strike up a conversation with them. Certainly I have never flirted with a woman I didn't know in front of a male companion of hers. She is somehow inviting this kind of behavior, or you are going places where this is normal.

There are a lot of red flags here. I agree with the comments by others that she doesn't seem a good match to you. Most concerning to me are the letters regarding the guy she was interested in when she was still married. That is a very bad boundary, which on top of her flirty behavior in public worries me. She sounds like she likes attention from others and she doesn't have high respect for her current relationship or her current partner.

Keeping old love letters isn't necessarily a bad thing, but boxes full seems a bit unusual. To me this seems to dovetail with her flirty behavior in public.

I don't think she will change, and I think what you need from a relationship is not what she is natural at. But I think it is worth a talk with her about the old letters, the flirty public behavior, and her emotional affair before her divorce. There is a possibility she reacts in a very positive, concerned, and thoughtful way which would put a different light on all of this. Though I do think it more likely she'll defend, dismiss, and downplay. If she does the latter then you are not a match with her. It doesn't make either of you wrong or bad, just not a match.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're the one here with a problem so no point in getting testy with the responders. You don't like some strange guy hogging your woman's time? Fine. Do something about it. Get up and tell girlfriend that it's time to mingle or take a walk or stand at the bar or whatever. Or, come right out and tell the guy that it was nice chatting with him but you want some alone time. 

The point is for you to take control of the situation. Not to sit and stew. 

Yes, you were snooping.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Thank you, Thor. I’m still unsure I should bring it up, but in defense of honesty, I may be compelled to. 

We have had a really fun relationship, and she has done and said 3 years worth of things to make me feel like a very special part of her life.

Unfortunately, I’ve witnessed situations at bars where she allows advancing behavior, old boyfriends trying to still persuade her back, male acquaintances sharing embraces with her on the street, giving out her phone number to a stranger claiming he knew a house repair guy she could use, and encountering a litany of boyfriend correspondence still in her possession.

I like to think that we are together because I am special, not just because she needs a man in her life. Now I’m starting to think, with her history of ALWAYS being with one boyfriend or another, that I could be just about ANY GUY. Perhaps it’s a common story?

Sometimes love hurts, and I’m still unsure how to proceed.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks Blondilocks, but snooping means actively seeking out private information, not stumbling upon it.

I don’t feel my response was testy, but apparently you did. 

I am not interested in picking a fight with any random guy. Is that what your man does?

Rather, it’s up to my girl to protect me from that by handling those situations appropriately, IMO.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Thank you, Thor. I’m still unsure I should bring it up, but in defense of honesty, I may be compelled to.
> 
> We have had a really fun relationship, and she has done and said 3 years worth of things to make me feel like a very special part of her life.
> 
> ...



Maybe I missed it, but have you talked to her this specifically about how you feel...? Does she understand her behavior is causing you to question your relationship...? Do her responses give you ANY insight into her motives??

What do you think about the fact that she may not be suited to you as a partner, as other posters have pointed out?


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Thank you, LisaDiane!

It’s challenging, because her outgoing personality is generally very attractive to me. It’s only certain situations where it becomes uncomfortable. 

Overall, we get along very well, and it is only recently that I’ve begun pondering our compatibility. I imagine she would be crushed if I decide to split, based on everything she’s said. However, I’m not so sure she wouldn’t connect with a new guy rapidly. 

That’s my quandary, to take her at her word, or question whether what she says is actually true. Up until now, I have gone with trusting her, which is why we are still together. We’ve had several conversations about how things will go when we go out for drinks, but the conversation about all of her correspondence with old flames is one I’m not sure should be discussed. However, I feel I am being dishonest if I am affected emotionally by it yet unwilling to notify her of my discomfort...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Thank you, LisaDiane!
> 
> It’s challenging, because her outgoing personality is generally very attractive to me. It’s only certain situations where it becomes uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


Plain and simple, this is all about boundary and privacy issues. So far it appears you haven't had that discussion; each of you is trying to figure out the other through observation and supposition. And that is viewed through your own lens so it comes close to being useless. 

Privacy. Does she have issues disclosing as much about her past as you want to know? FIND OUT NOW. Are there limits to what you feel comfortable sharing with her? She needs to know. Would you be OK sharing all your passwords with her? Would you feel out of sorts if she didn't feel comfortable sharing her passwords with you? Is she OK with you reading through his old letters? 

Boundaries. This is all about the bar scene you bring up. You need to have common boundaries that you respect. She likely enjoys the ego boost she gets from attention from guys. Is she OK with not just stopping that from happening, but having to actively look out for it? What happens with a shared pool of finances? Are each of you comfortable with how the other spends money? 

How many situations will present themselves as, I didn't tell you because I knew you'd have a problem with it? What will the effect be of doing something not allowed or that you know will be against the others wishes, then asking for forgiveness afterward? 

Don't waste a good crisis. Reading her letters will likely provide a good basis for some real soul searching. Don't sugar coat anything. You are in your 50s; you aren't going to get too many chances as more relationship. Either fix this one or move on. Quickly.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Loveherorleave? said:


> It’s challenging, because her outgoing personality is generally very attractive to me. It’s only certain situations where it becomes uncomfortable.
> 
> Overall, we get along very well, and it is only recently that I’ve begun pondering our compatibility. I imagine she would be crushed if I decide to split, based on everything she’s said. However, I’m not so sure she wouldn’t connect with a new guy rapidly.
> 
> That’s my quandary, to take her at her word, or question whether what she says is actually true. Up until now, I have gone with trusting her, which is why we are still together. We’ve had several conversations about how things will go when we go out for drinks, but the conversation about all of her correspondence with old flames is one I’m not sure should be discussed. However, I feel I am being dishonest if I am affected emotionally by it yet unwilling to notify her of my discomfort...


Trust is not a quandry... the only way to trust is to trust. If you decide you cannot, then you need to understand why the way boundaries you place around you are built that would keep distrust in your life without addressing it.

Good relationships are founded on good communication, which builds good trust. If she invited you to help clean up and you discovered the letters you shared in such openness, then respect that trust and return it without conditions.

If it bothers you and you are not open to sharing that, then you are planting the seed of distrust within yourself.

Somehow, somewhere, someway, we all have insecurities... it is how we allow our fears to manipulate their level of importance that gets us into a place that allows doubt to overshadow the good that comes from their lessons.

Keep your discussion true and kind, but if you want an open and trusting relationship it will be necessary.

How you accept the outcome will identify your compatibility...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

As I was discussing this thread with AC, a statement rose to the surface... we have to be mindful of the trophies we collect.

So often the things we hold onto the tightest can become our most challenging anchors in how we move forward from the chapters of our life.

Choose wisely...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, it's up to your girl to protect your honor. Just slap a burka on her and be done with it. Or, find a girl that will give you no pause for worry or discomfort.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LoveHer,

Did you have the talk about your pasts and did your GF lie to you or omit details?

While you can change her past, her past is relevant to your having a future with you or not. Many would be upset to find out that the person they married was once a prostitute, theif or adulterer. 

Are any of the men from her past still on her Facebook or in contact in any other way?

And if she is lying to you that is occuring in the present.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Women LOVE love letters. It is a special memory that they will keep forever. It's a special type of validation. 

My sister has kept some that my late father wrote to my Mother. Sis said he wrote poetry to Mom.... This from a guy that played football for Navy and was a fleet heavyweight boxing champion in World War II.

My wife has old ones that I wrote that are an embarrassment to me because they are so mushy. She even framed one and had it on display at our 25th Wedding Anniversary. Sheesh!! Our Golden Anniversary is coming up and I shudder to think what will come out of the archives!!

Gently, you seem pretty insecure. You have a girl friend in her 50s that still draws the attention of other males? She had several men who treasured her, and she declares her love for you? *Think about that.* You must be a pretty good catch!:smile2:

Why don't you put pen to paper and and declare your love for her. And make it real mushy. You might even get added to the archives!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

How long ago was the last letter? 

In general I think reading other people's private mail is bad. I will excuse irresistible curiosity, not sure I could resist reading my wife's old love letters if there were any - but - having committed that sin of snooping I would feel honor bound not to judge her for anything I discovered. (sort of like the law ignoring illegally collected evidence). 

I do see how sings of an earlier affair might bother you - but how long ago was that People do change. 

All that said, if you are no longer comfortable with her, and no longer trust her, you are not doing anyone any favors by staying together.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

This from your earlier post:



Loveherorleave?;19999689
Do I just need to chill out and let her continue to have her fun said:


> What's good for the goose is good for the gander. When she does that, you go find some other woman and strike up a conversation. Maybe even get a little touchy/feely. I wonder how that would fly?
> 
> On the other hand, you are too afraid to go to the John for fear that someone will take your place? Uh, I think the letter deal is nothing. But if she continues to make you uncomfortable with her behaviors, even after you have said something, maybe it's time to take a break.
> 
> ...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

uhtred said:


> How long ago was the last letter?
> 
> In general I think reading other people's private mail is bad. I will excuse irresistible curiosity, not sure I could resist reading my wife's old love letters if there were any - but - having committed that sin of snooping I would feel honor bound not to judge her for anything I discovered. (sort of like the law ignoring illegally collected evidence).
> 
> ...


Short of a major crisis/epiphany, something generally indentifiable, I think the idea that people change in fundamental ways is not something you should count on. Perhaps the better way to put it is this- after a major crisis/epiphany, I believe you'll find a person's personality kind of locked and not likely to change much, especially if that change came during early adulthood. What you find in old letters & journal entries will very likely give you an understanding of how that person processes ideas and what their later fantasies and difficult areas will be.

Regarding the snooping and judgment, the tough part there is that you cannot unsee what has been seen, particularly if it's surprising to you.The snooping may create your own crisis/epiphany, which could be good or bad.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I think if we all just read between the lines just a little .... everyone knows she will eat you alive in the end. Your brain already seems to be running off 
in that direction. Some woman demand a strong man

Try to rewind yourself a little and ask the following questions:

How did I feel about her before the letters?
How did I feel about her after the letters ?

She is still the same woman. The rest is in your head.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> I think if we all just read between the lines just a little .... everyone knows she will eat you alive in the end. Your brain already seems to be running off
> in that direction. Some woman demand a strong man
> 
> Try to rewind yourself a little and ask the following questions:
> ...


Another way of looking at it is that those letters showed nothing new. OP has been operating with blinders on, seeing what he wants to see, or at least hoping what he wants to hope. It's fortunate for the GF, I think, that he won't be flying blind anymore. Better to understand what his expectations are, and she can't meet them. She's a high-flying outgoing people-pleasing type of person. Extrovert to his introvert.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Again, thank you all for taking the time to read and reply. It’s great to receive such a wide variety of perspectives. Skerzoid, yours was particularly reassuring!

I have decided to move quickly past the fact that she keeps her letters from the past, and will not discuss finding them with her.

I am a confident man, and she is a fantastic lady. Her past combines to make her who she is today, and it’s my role to honor that, as I love her very deeply. 

All the best, to each of you!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Thank you, LisaDiane!
> 
> It’s challenging, because her outgoing personality is generally very attractive to me. It’s only certain situations where it becomes uncomfortable.
> 
> ...



If it were me, I would NOT discuss the letters, and I would trust her at her word -- like you said, she probably has alot of other options, but she's with YOU....in spite of all the men she enjoys talking to, YOU are the one she wants to love her and be close to her!! 

I am curious how things are going to change once you live together....that might bring up new issues that will make this one seem insignificant!

As to your worries, I must admit that she sounds alot like ME -- I am super-friendly and love to listen to people and hear about new things! I probably look like a terrible flirt, but the truth is I talk to men AND women exactly the same, it's just that women don't usually want to stick around and keep talking to me like men do. My husband is never jealous, he loves my happy personality too, but he would NEVER let me ignore him, for a guy or girl...if I did, he would have no problem shutting the conversation down (friendly but firm) and setting the boundaries that I feel unsure about setting (I don't like to make people feel bad!), and I LOVE that about him!! 
You could simply say, "ok, that's enough, it's my turn with you now", or, "let's go, honey, you're on a date with me", or any number of other ways to set boundaries about how much inattention you are going to put up with.
The important thing is that you accept that you deserve to be treated the way that is important to YOU, and don't feel badly about it. Own it, and make it happen, and see how it fits with what she wants - that's how you know if you guys are a good match!

As for the old correspondence, I think you are putting more into it than is actually there, and I wouldn't talk to her about it at all. If you are affected emotionally, you should handle it within yourself and not drag her into it until it's settled in you. I don't see that as dishonesty, but emotional maturity. The only reason for talking to her about it is to get some kind of reassurance from her to soothe yourself emotionally, and there's no guarantee that anything she would say would reassure you - it has to come from within yourself!
I save all kinds of old stuff, NOT because it's a reminder of the person who gave it to me, but because it's a reminder of ME at that time. I had a horrible time with my first husband, but I saved all our old pictures and the cards he gave me, because it's part of MY life and a time that I survived - if anyone thought that I liked having those things because I had any feelings for him or any regret of not being with him, I would laugh myself to unconsciousness!! 

So do yourself (and your relationship) a favor, and DROP these worries and uncertainties! If they were true red flags, you wouldn't need to ask anyone about them, you would KNOW. And once you start living together, your relationship is going to change and intensify by leaps and bounds, and that's when you'll start to see the true issues that need dealing with!


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Boundaries are for ourselves, not others... boundaries for others are markers of control even if we ask others to set our boundaries for us (want others to control what we struggle with).

Perception of and reality of are two different things... if we are not careful we fill in the blanks (perception) when we do not know the answers of our doubt (reality).

If we say it doesn't matter or don't worry about it, does that really make it so or are we simply placing a fear in the way of open and honest communication leaving room for perception to take over? It is amazing to think how often we volunteer ourselves into perception.

The easy path is not always the best path...

I also know how easy it is to want to ignore the seeds... often much harder to deal with when unattended and they grow into much larger weeds that reseed negatives in our life such as resentment, anger, or regret.

One of the things I appreciate most in my relationship with my wife is the open and honest communication we share. If I am addressing something within me, I cannot find the best path in a void... it is very important that she has an opportunity to provide me balanced feedback so I can see if what I am feeling is truly mindful... or not.

This is not transferring any ownership of something I may be struggling with, she knows and trusts it will be mine to own and I honor her by not making it about her.

The reward for such openness is an incredible closeness I am thankful for every day... 

There are always may thoughts on these matters, the important thing is that you are aware of whatever choice you make.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the guys being attracted to her at the bar are a lot like the love letters. She loved the attention and words that build her up. If she doesn’t have a cheating past I would do my best to just understand that she seeks attention and words that make her feel good. Would venture to guess her main love language is words of affirmation. Best of luck. Love hurts.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> So, it's up to your girl to protect your honor. Just slap a burka on her and be done with it. Or, find a girl that will give you no pause for worry or discomfort.


Damn, woman....be nice.

Our male poster, OMP, needs to let her stand firm or swing.

Give her all the rope she can handle, be sure of yourself while doing your observing.

No one said you must marry her in one year.

Turn off all jealousy, all complaints. Be the same socially friendly person she is.

Don't tell us it is not in your nature. Make it your nature. Start going out on your own. If she asks where you went...tell her.

When in the pub with her, on the way back from going potty, stop at a table with ladies and make nice. If you need nerve have another shot of Jack Daniels.

She will either dump you or put her foot down, just not in any more bars.

Personally, I would break her habit of spinning wild on those bar seats. 

The two of you do not need to go in those places anymore. 
Tell her nope, I find it boring, no thank you.

If she insists, let her go by herself.......if she dares.
And she might. 

That will make your decision to leave this one to her own vices.



KB-


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

@SunCMars, 

*"Damn, woman....be nice."*

I thought I was, SunC! (grumble, grumble) OK, I'll try harder, Dad.

Frankly, if her behavior has only made him uncomfortable 7 times in 3 years, then I have to say he's had an easy time of it!:grin2:


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i have kept my love letters and mementos from ex's.

i have them set aside in a place that cannot be found. i haven't looked at any of them in years.

why? because i'm totally devoted to my present wife. she is the love of my life. none of the previous can match up to her.

and yet........there remains fond memories and small compartments in my heart that will remain for them. they were a big part of my life.
the good times and the bad. i shall never forget them. i have no contact with any of them, and shall keep it that way.

only think of them now and then, say prayers for their well being and wish them well from afar.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I think it is pre-mature for her to sell her house and for you to make things more permanent with her. Your foundation is too shaky. Date a few more years. Going into something permanent with multiple open questions is not wise - and you are old enough to see/know that. If it is right the relationship will be stronger and the decision won't have so many maybe's like it appears to now in a few years.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Loveherorleave? said:


> I’m not into playing games, and am just looking for equal respect. I don’t keep pictures and letters from old girlfriends, specifically to make sure my current girl doesn’t get put in a yucky situation having to figure out why I keep them. I have my memories, but out of respect for the purity of the current relationship, I don’t feel it’s appropriate to have stuff like that around, whether it’s searched for, or stumbled upon.


All this means is that you both have* different opinions *about how much you keep from your respective pasts.

Just because YOU feel it's 'inappropriate' to keep mementos from your past doesn't mean _*she*_ has to have the same opinion as you or she's somehow "disrespecting" you. What a ridiculous and narrow-minded view to have.

I have a whole TRUNK of love letters and romantic cards and ticket stubs and newspaper clippings and miscellaneous mementos etc. etc. from the last 40+ years and NO ONE is going to tell me I have to throw it all out just because they're too damned insecure and can't deal with the fact that I had a life before I met them. 

She has a right to her past without you acting like an insecure CHILD about it.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Wow,

You guys are FANTASTIC! It takes a lot of time to read and write, and even those of you calling me creepy have given me food for thought.

Thanks again!!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think you have cold feet about the relationship progressing and are trying to find the smoking gun, so to speak. You don't need an excuse to maintain the status quo. You're just not ready for the commitment.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I think you have cold feet about the relationship progressing and are trying to find the smoking gun, so to speak. You don't need an excuse to maintain the status quo. You're just not ready for the commitment.


And who, but a fool, would not be feeling this relationship as closing in on you (him).

This IS an important decision. The most important one, at the moment.

He has honest doubt, and doubtless it will end up dividing the two, permanently.

Some men see vibrant woman as easy, some see them as refreshingly open.

Most men do love them, these flirty ladies. Alas, most fear their capacity to share their wealth with other men.
Uh, that hurts so much!

Jealousy is a double edged sword. 
Those having too much can be cutting and controlling, those having too little can be seen as cold, as uncaring, acting as that dull butter knife edge.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Sounds like you have been pretty worked over with advice, so I will give you the $.02 version.

You are dating a 50+ year old woman. She has a history just like you have a history. So she has some mementos of her past. Most people do. I somewhere in my house still have engagement pictures of my ex fiancee (and I would rather have a gasoline enema then see and/or talk to her again.) That poses no threat to you.

You do have three legitimate beefs with her:

1. The interaction with other men while you are on a date. That IMO is disrespectful and unacceptable. That needs to be addressed and corrected. If she continues after you address it with her, give her a dose of her own medicine by exhibiting similar behavior with women while you are on a date. She may be one of those who can dish it out but not take it. If this does not send the message that she needs parameters for her behavior, than simply leave her at the curb. If she is truly that into you, she will make the necessary adjustments.

2. All these guys reaching out to her. They are insistent, really? She needs to shut them down immediately out of respect for you. You should not have to reach out to them, she should be stopping them dead in their tracks. Hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like to me she is queuing them up for potential future "access". 

3. The cheating on her spouse issue. Granted you found out by means that may or not be kosher, but, since past behavior is the best indicator of future results, if you are going to have a viable future with this woman, it needs to be addressed. I wouldn't admit that I found the info out from a notebook under her bed, but she certainly IMO needs to demonstrate that she cares about your safety in the relationship, and is actively working to make you feel such.

Too many red flags here for me. I would make minimal investment into this relationship and sure as H would not be moving in with her until these issues were resolved to my satisfaction. Caveat Emptor!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> ...


I don't think you should snoop, but I also wouldn't be in a committed relationship with someone that had cheated in the past, for any reason, ever.

Her feelings about other guys before you don't matter.

Her behavior does, because it shows a lack of integrity.

Put the letters away and forget them. Don't move in with her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Marduk said:


> I don't think you should snoop, *but I also wouldn't be in a committed relationship with someone that had cheated in the past, for any reason, ever.*
> 
> Her feelings about other guys before you don't matter.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, that part of her past doesn't seem to bother him. There may be quite a story behind that; but, we don't know what it is.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marduk said:


> I don't think you should snoop, but I also wouldn't be in a committed relationship with someone that had cheated in the past, for any reason, ever.
> 
> Her feelings about other guys before you don't matter.
> 
> ...



But don't you think it's possible for people to change and learn from their mistakes...? I mean, I've never cheated, but I am a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, and I'd be pretty miffed if I was judged NOW for my actions THEN!!

Of course, I do understand caution based on past actions, but wouldn't having an open mind be better, and maybe being willing to take a chance?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agree. Are there people who don't feel like they have changed over decades? 






LisaDiane said:


> But don't you think it's possible for people to change and learn from their mistakes...? I mean, I've never cheated, but I am a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, and I'd be pretty miffed if I was judged NOW for my actions THEN!!
> 
> Of course, I do understand caution based on past actions, but wouldn't having an open mind be better, and maybe being willing to take a chance?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> But don't you think it's possible for people to change and learn from their mistakes...? I mean, I've never cheated, but I am a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, and I'd be pretty miffed if I was judged NOW for my actions THEN!!
> 
> Of course, I do understand caution based on past actions, but wouldn't having an open mind be better, and maybe being willing to take a chance?


Sure it’s possible. It’s just improbable. 

It’s more probable they’ve refined their ability to rationalize their behaviour and hide it. 

Your decisions make up who you are.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Thanks Blondilocks, but snooping means actively seeking out private information, not stumbling upon it.
> 
> I don’t feel my response was testy, but apparently you did.
> 
> ...


First of all, you stumbled upon them.

When you read through them, counted them up, that* then* became snooping.

You seem to need a pure, demure virgin of your about own age? 

Yeah. That's possible, though you might want to make certain you have stabling for her unicorn.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> First of all, you stumbled upon them.
> 
> When you read through them, counted them up, that* then* became snooping.
> 
> ...


Or he could hang around a nunnery.

Sorry, couldn't stay out of this dogpile of a thread.0


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Deleted


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> But don't you think it's possible for people to change and learn from their mistakes...? I mean, I've never cheated, but I am a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, and I'd be pretty miffed if I was judged NOW for my actions THEN!!
> 
> Of course, I do understand caution based on past actions, but wouldn't having an open mind be better, and maybe being willing to take a chance?


Nah, not worth taking a chance. Good, compatible partners are not all that difficult to find, so not really worth spending time managing the baggage of a cheater when there are a dozen others to choose from without that baggage.

Sort of like if I am an HR manager at a bank, and have several candidates for a job I am hiring for, and one of them has felony theft and arson convictions from 20 years ago, no, I'm not going to consider them over the other candidates who don't have that in their background.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

samyeagar said:


> Nah, not worth taking a chance. Good, compatible partners are not all that difficult to find, so not really worth spending time managing the baggage of a cheater when there are a dozen others to choose from without that baggage.
> 
> Sort of like if I am an HR manager at a bank, and have several candidates for a job I am hiring for, and one of them has felony theft and arson convictions from 20 years ago, no, I'm not going to consider them over the other candidates who don't have that in their background.


I mean, I understand what you guys are saying, but that attitude seems unnecessarily close-minded to me. And it certainly doesn't inspire honesty in others!! Lol!

AND, most of the crappy things I've seen people do were not in their "history" or "baggage" at all. And conversely, I have known several people who did "bad" things who learned a lesson and are still awesome people that I am happy to know, and do trust!

To judge people that inflexibly means that you miss out on finding out who they truly are, and maybe miss out on something special with them. I do agree that if someone cheated, most likely they have a character flaw that they probably don't even recognize and shouldn't be trusted, but I would always keep my mind (and heart!) open to the fact that they might have changed for the better, especially if there were other things I loved about them.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I mean, I understand what you guys are saying, but that attitude seems unnecessarily close-minded to me. And it certainly doesn't inspire honesty in others!! Lol!
> 
> AND, most of the crappy things I've seen people do were not in their "history" or "baggage" at all. And conversely, I have known several people who did "bad" things who learned a lesson and are still awesome people that I am happy to know, and do trust!
> 
> To judge people that inflexibly means that you miss out on finding out who they truly are, and maybe miss out on something special with them. I do agree that if someone cheated, most likely they have a character flaw that they probably don't even recognize and shouldn't be trusted, but I would always keep my mind (and heart!) open to the fact that they might have changed for the better, especially if there were other things I loved about them.


I never understood the whole fear of missing out mindset. Sure, they might be a great person and wonderful partner, but there are lots of great people out there who would make great partners, so passing them up isn't missing out on anything.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> I mean, I understand what you guys are saying, but that attitude seems unnecessarily close-minded to me. And it certainly doesn't inspire honesty in others!! Lol!
> 
> AND, most of the crappy things I've seen people do were not in their "history" or "baggage" at all. And conversely, I have known several people who did "bad" things who learned a lesson and are still awesome people that I am happy to know, and do trust!
> 
> To judge people that inflexibly means that you miss out on finding out who they truly are, and maybe miss out on something special with them. I do agree that if someone cheated, most likely they have a character flaw that they probably don't even recognize and shouldn't be trusted, but I would always keep my mind (and heart!) open to the fact that they might have changed for the better, especially if there were other things I loved about them.


There's 7 billion people on the planet, or more.

There's no "one." There's no "soul mate." And even if there were, my "one" wouldn't be a cheater.

There's plenty other people to go find... that actually have a track record of integrity. I have one life, I'm not going to waste it with someone that's just pretending to be good.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> But don't you think it's possible for people to change and learn from their mistakes...? I mean, I've never cheated, but I am a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, and I'd be pretty miffed if I was judged NOW for my actions THEN!!
> 
> Of course, I do understand caution based on past actions, but wouldn't having an open mind be better, and maybe being willing to take a chance?



Sure it is possible to change, but for one to do so they must embrace and be able to implement change.

According to the OP, he goes out on a date with his girlfriend, and it appears that she spends time talking up and chatting with other guys instead of the OP? 

In addition, it appears that her E Mail sees more hook up offers than Grand Central Station. She appears to be either unwilling or ill equipped in shutting this down, to the point that the OP had to become actively engaged in discharging one "Prince Charming." Sure, she appears to be honest about this but why is she not taking care of her own drama and proving that she is a safe GF to be with?

Where is the change? Such change, IMO, does not bode well for a healthy, honest, above board relationship. This merely looks like a train wreck about to happen because of a lack of boundaries on the GF's part.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Nah, not worth taking a chance. Good, compatible partners are not all that difficult to find, so not really worth spending time managing the baggage of a cheater when there are a dozen others to choose from without that baggage.
> 
> Sort of like if I am an HR manager at a bank, and have several candidates for a job I am hiring for, and one of them has felony theft and arson convictions from 20 years ago, no, I'm not going to consider them over the other candidates who don't have that in their background.


To each their own. Mrs. C was the OW twice and cheated in both her marriages before me but has been an amazingly loyal and supporting wife to me.

Mrs. C has also never tested boundaries that wouldn't pass the boyfriend or husband test.

I was promiscuous as hell and partied like a rock star, living on the edge of the razor before meeting her but changed my ways to become a good husband and father.

I take folks as they are when I meet them, not how they use to be.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> To each their own. Mrs. C was the OW twice and cheated in both her marriages before me but has been an amazingly loyal and supporting wife to me.
> 
> Mrs. C has also never tested boundaries that wouldn't pass the boyfriend or husband test.
> 
> ...


This is how I feel too, and I've never regretted it (although, admittedly, I don't have any real dating experience).

My first husband was a fun-loving jock-guy since I first saw him in high school - great attitude, worked out, tons of friends, partied a little but never caused any trouble....that was NO indication of what he would turn into in about 5 years.

My husband now was the OM in two previous relationships, and was a heavy drug user all through his 20s, he told me it took him 2 years to quit shooting meth, but he's been clean for almost 30 years! If I let that information (that was given freely) discourage me, I WOULD have missed out on the perfect guy for me!! 

Sure, there are plenty of other men out there I could've chosen from, but everyone has their downsides, and I doubt I could have found such a caring, strong man who wanted an emotionally damaged woman and 3 little kids (who got NO child support)!

"Baggage" isn't always the measure of the person!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

It's currently in vogue for the marriage industrial complex to say that people that have cheated in the past aren't any more likely than average to do it again, and past behaviour doesn't predict future behaviour.

And then they cite anecdotal reasons, or use studies that in my mind are very dissimilar.

And it's too bad the data - and common sense - say otherwise.



> The Cognitive Impact of Past Behavior: Influences on Beliefs, Attitudes, and Future Behavioral Decisions
> 
> Abstract
> To study the processes by which past behavior influences future behavior, participants were led to believe that without being aware of it, they had expressed either support for or opposition to the institution of comprehensive exams. *Judgment and response time data suggested that participants’ perceptions of their past behavior often influenced their decisions to repeat the behavior. This influence was partly the result of cognitive activity that influenced participants’ cognitions about specific behavioral consequences and the attitude they based on these cognitions. More generally, however, feedback about past behavior had a direct effect on participants’ attitudes and ultimate behavioral decisions that was independent of the outcome-specific cognitions.* Results are discussed in terms of their implications for biased scanning of memory, dissonance reduction, self-perception, and the use of behavior as a heuristic.
> ...


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4807731/

In other words, it's actually very valid to use a person's past behaviour to predict their future behaviour, especially if the past behavoiur was rewarded, or at least didn't have a significant negative consequence. Which means that if you reconcile with a cheater, the odds of them cheating again likely go up: they got their fling (reward), and they got to stay married (reward). Operant conditioning is what it is, and it doesn't care how much you rationalize it.

Studies that claim otherwise, according to this, are usually flawed or lack any actual empirical evidence.

A key item later on:


> *Cognitive dissonance theory (Festinger, 1957; Festinger & Carlsmith, 1959; Wicklund & Brehm, 1976) assumes that when people become aware that they have voluntarily performed a behavior that contradicts the implications of a previously formed attitude, they experience discomfort (dissonance). Therefore, they attempt to rationalize their counterattitudinal behavior by convincing themselves that they had good reasons for engaging in it. This rationalization is likely to produce a change in their estimates of both the likelihood and desirability of the behavior’s specific consequences and, therefore, a revision of the attitude for which these estimates have implications. The new attitude, in turn, may provide the basis for their future behavioral decisions.* The process of reducing dissonance is similar to that implied by the biased-scanning hypothesis. However, it theoretically occurs only when participants’ past behavior conflicts with their prior attitudes, whereas biased scanning presumably occurs regardless of any prior attitude that participants might have formed. In either event, because the processes require retrieval of prior knowledge, they are likely to be cognitively demanding (see, e.g., Stroebe & Diehl, 1981; Zanna & Aziza, 1976; Zanna, Lepper, & Abelson, 1973). *Therefore, biased scanning and cognitive dissonance are most likely to be evident when people have an opportunity to think carefully about the implications of their past behavior.*


A key item in cheating that is so commonly reported that it's a cliche is the rationalizations that happen that make the cheating someone else's fault. They're still a good person, the marriage was always bad, the spouse was abusive, the affair partner seduced them, whatever. The key point is if those rationalizations persist... their likelihood to do it again go up. In other words, what people like Esther Perel and Dan Savage say about what to do with cheaters is exactly wrong and actually harmful.

If you abide by Savage's campsite rule (leave someone better than you found them), then making the cheating a disastrous event (like divorcing them) is actually the best thing you can do to help a cheater reform their behaviour.

It concludes thusly:



> In conclusion, the present research provides several new insights into the effect of past behavior on future behavior and the cognitions that mediate this effect. Furthermore, the methodology we used, in which participants’ past behavior was made salient to them without their awareness that they had engaged in it, clearly eliminates any possibility that its impact on later decisions was the result of some third factor that had a common influence on both. Thus, *the causal impact of past behavior on later decisions was clearly established under the conditions we investigated. Moreover, the fact that this impact decreased with distraction, rather than increasing, indicates that it was not simply due to participants’ use of their past behavior as a heuristic basis for judgment when they were unable or unmotivated to think carefully about the decision they were called on to make.*


In other words, cheaters aren't going to change without something forcing them to do the actual work - something like, say, a divorce. The risk to the betrayed is of course the fact that cheaters lie and manage their spouse's reality as a matter of course. Therefore, it's difficult or impossible for a spouse to know if they've done the actual work. It's also difficult or impossible for the next partner to tell.

Therefore, accepting what people say at face value if they cheated in the past is inadvisable.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> ...


People dont always have a perfect past


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are in our mid 50s, and have been together 3 years. Our relationship is exclusive, and we plan to move in together after another year.
> 
> I have had a few blow-ups when we’ve gone out, when I felt she should be a little less inviting when guys at the bar approach her. Overall, we can discuss issues and have both declared our love for each other, but little things come up that cause me uncertainty.


So you are a bit jealous. Obviously she's not going to leave the bar with another guy right in front of you.



> When cleaning her basement a few weeks ago, I discovered two shoe boxes full of old letters from high school and college love interests. I didn’t want to read them, so I just put them away, but took note that there was about 6 different guys. Then, just the other day, when I was cleaning some books out from under her bed, I found a notebook with rough drafts of love letters she had written to a guy she dated while still married. She apparently was in love with this guy while deciding to file for divorce, and the depth of her emotion was very hard for me to read.
> I know it was from years ago, but I’m discouraged that she wouldn’t make sure to dispose of that kind of stuff, especially since I sleep there several nights each week.


She's in her 50's and corresponded with at least six different guys from high school onward? I don't think that's surprising. As to "a guy she dated while still married," it's not clear if you mean that your girlfriend was still married or that the guy was still married. But I'd say that it's questionable behavior on her part either way. If she was married and in love with another man while she was "deciding to file for divorce," that's far more serious. Less serious if the divorce was already in process and the parties started dating before the divorce was formalized.



> I’m beginning to realize that she has had nothing but boyfriends her whole life, and I’m starting to question if I’m at all special. It’s a very sad realization. I really do believe she loves me in a special way, but knowing all about all,of her old flames has gotten under my skin. What do you think?


Each of her boyfriends was special. You are special, too.



> Should I... Just forget about it, and enjoy what I have with her? Let her know that I found all the letters, and ask about why she keeps them around? Feel guilty for snooping? I don’t want to overthink it, so,any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


Just forget about it and enjoy what you have with her. The reason that she keeps them around is the same reason that many women keep diaries; no explanation should be necessary.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Loveherorleave? said:


> I don’t believe I am insecure, but rather hyper-sensitive to insecurities. In other words, I go out of my way to make sure I don’t put my girl into awkward social situations or create any reason for my girl to feel uncomfortable when we’re out. I want her to know I am expressly committed to her. Unfortunately, it begins to gnaw at me when reciprocation is not apparent.


We like to believe that gifts are "no strings attached." We know, though, that there is an assumption of reciprocity. If you keep buying your friend food and drinks but your friend never reciprocates, you won't be happy with your friend. But when you have a personal rule that you are following, you can't just assume that everybody else will reciprocate by following that same rule. For example, you may choose to always wear pants and never expose your legs, but you can't expect that your girlfriend will never wear shorts or a skirt out of reciprocity. 



> My gf expressed worries about a girl who liked me when we first met, and I put an end to it immediately by eliminating any interaction with her. When we go out, I am conscious of the length of time I spend in conversations with women, and certainly am not poking around the bar trying to strike up casual chats with random girls. However, if we end up near a guy neither of us knows, she will almost always end up in a conversation. I DO engage in the conversation, but DON’T enjoy spending the majority of our time out together chatting with some male stranger.


I think there's a difference between your girlfriend interacting with a friend or coworker who likes her romantically, and just chatting with random people in your presence at a bar.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*She sounds like she is part of a vicious cycle of which you might be finding yourself becoming a part of!

It's now up to you if you desire to become a part of it!*


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