# Ladies,I need your advice...



## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

comment removed...................


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nosexsteve said:


> Oh......just as a side note....when ladies say "i'm not getting any at home".....do you mean your husbands or boyfriends are actually refusing you and saying "NO" to sex.....or do you mean your husbands or boyfriends have, for some reason or another, stopped initiating sex, and being that most women don't seem to like initiating it, they find themselves in a sexless marriage/relationship........it would be interesting to hear your views on that too ladies.!!!:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


Let's start with this. You come here asking for help. And then your last paragraph is basically a rude attack on many of the very people you are asking help from? Really?

Yes, for the most part, when a women says that her husband does not want sex it means that he is refusing. She initiates over and over and over, and he turns her down over and over and over. Basically, in some marriage it's the same story with the roles reversed. Men and women choose to make their marriages sexless at about the same rate.

Here is a thread that has been created to help women in this situation since most people have the same attitude that you do, that somehow it's always the woman's fault when a marriage is sexless. This leads to women who are in sexless marriage beating themselves up emotionally with no one to turn to for help.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The first thing that you need to do is to find out if an affair is going on. Here is a thread talking about ways to do that.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

If you find out she's having an affair, do not confront her right away. Come here and let others help you develop a plan of action.

However, until and discover an affair, you need to proceed as though there is no affair.

Another thing that you need to do is to start separating emotionally from her on many levels so that you are in a better place mentally. Look at the link for the 180 in my signature block below. That's how you need to start interacting with her.

Then, there is a book that I think you need to read. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" You say that you are 'subservient' to her? Why? What do you hope to gain by doing that?

Next start doing more for yourself. What do you do on a regular basis for yourself? Do you work out? Do you have hobbies that you do on a regular basis? Do you have friends and a social life?

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you doing date-like things? (aka quality time)


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Rude?....that's abit harsh, to say the least - unbelievable comment! I didn't mean it that way at all....still, i will apologize to you because i do not wish to offend you or anyone else - so i am very sorry if what i wrote upset you....and i really mean that ....i know how this feels....


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Steve,

Bunch of questions for you...

How old are you and your wife?

You've been with your wife for 40 years? You haven't had sex with your wife for 16 years? You are upset that she never initiates any sort of affection and never initiates any sort of sex? You are certain she orgasms. Now you see that your wife is wearing sexy clothing, and has sexy panties that you don't see her wearing and you think possibly she is wearing them for someone else. You stopped initiating sex a VERY long time ago initially to see if she would ever initiate but she never did and since she never did, you don't either.

As a woman I have to shake my head when I read about husbands who stop initiating sex because their wives don't initiate or because their wives turn them away too often. Because while you're thinking you're going to force her to initiate sex, she's thinking 'he doesn't want me any more.' Backing away from initiating affection doesn't illustrate to her that she should initiate affection, it tells her you don't care much about her.

You won't get it if you don't ask for it.

Your wife told you, when you finally asked her, that she wanted sex in her marriage, and yet you punted on understanding more about her.

You're going to need to tell her that sex with her is very important to you, that you want to have sex with her X times per week, that you want her to enjoy sex with you as much as you enjoy sex with her, that you want her to feel how much you love and desire her and you want to feel from her how much she loves and desires you. You're going to have to fess up that you stopped initiating sex under the mistaken and foolish thought that you would wait for her to initiate sex but you NEVER stopped wanting her or wanting sex with her! When a woman says her husband only wants her for sex chances are very good she feels marginalized and unloved, that the only attention or affection her husband shows is when he wants sex. And if you have distanced yourself waiting for her to initiate affection and sex, except for those two times a year when you simply couldn't stand it anymore, you have demonstrated exactly that.

Ask your wife these questions:

Do you enjoy having sex with me?

How often do you want to have sex? How often do you think most couples our age have sex?

When you want sex is there a signal you're sending that I'm not noticing? Have you ever wanted sex and been frustrated wishing I would initiate sex? Are you at all comfortable initiating sex? Have you always believed that it is the man who should initiate sex? Do you think a woman who wants sex should let her spouse know or should she silently wish he would initiate sex?

Do you like affection? Are you under the impression that anytime we are affectionate it will lead to sex? Have I led you to think that touching you in a nonsexual way is always going to pressure you for sex? 

Can we make a habit of being affectionate every day, holding hands, hugging, snuggling together as we watch TV?


I've got to tell you that after 40 years together having sex twice a year, not having sex for the last 16 years, your wife is most likely under the impression that you don't want sex, don't find her attractive, has probably stopped seeing you as attractive, and has long ago made peace that she will live a sexless life.

You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Thanks Anon.....great reply...i'll read it a few more times then answer....oh God....what have i done?


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

We are both in our late 50's - i've tried the talking - in fact, our last "argument" ended when my wife said " I know what's up with you - it's sex isn't it!!).....so i know she knows that i miss it - and i also know that she doesn't appear to be bothered because she said "Sex isn't the B all and end all of everything you know". In the space of 4 months she hasn't touched me - i didn't get married for this. She goes to bed before me and just says "Goodnight"....that's it - .
What's confusing is when we were first married - many years ago - she would sometimes put her arms around me - or something - show some form of affection - but now - nothing - and i mean - nothing.......like i said, i didn't get married for this....is it reasonable for my wife to do nothing?.....not even a touch?....a kiss?....an affectionate word?....i don't understand.
Your last comment was very interesting though.....makes me think that i should be more.."non -laid-back"......and just take what i can get - is this what other men do?....is this what "real" men do. All this time i've been trying to be the "nice guy" and not be demanding and pressurizing - when all the time it seems that i should be. All in all....i've got myself into a real mess - and looks like i've only got myself to blame.....


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

"You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?"...........It didn't......but i don't want my wife to do the running - i just want her to show a spark of interest - just a 1% input - i will gladly do the rest.......
But then again, it maybe a case of the same old story - The man is always ready for sex - but the woman isn't feeling sexy until she is actually having sex......
I try to put myself in the woman's situation - and i think a good way for men to do this is the feeling after a man orgasms the last thing on his mind - is sex!......so, i would say to men, that feeling is probably how women feel most of the time.....would i be right!!!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You're almost right. 

A woman, such as you wife, with responsive desire doesn't want sex unless she feels aroused. She doesn't feel aroused until she is sexually engaged. Therefore she doesn't have a desire for sex until she is sexually engaged. 

It would be like you not thinking about or wanting sex until you had an erection. So how are you going to get that erection?

More often, men have spontaneous desire. They think about sex and then they want sex. A woman with responsive desire doesn't want sex unless she is aroused.

Without regular affection, how would your wife become aroused?

Add to this, your wife is too timid to initiate affection or sex, so even those times she wanted affection, she was too timid to seek it.

Add to this, 40 years of her thinking you don't want her and that the only time you touch her is when you want sex. That's 40 years of her believing she married a man who doesn't want her, isn't passionate, isn't affectionate, and is not very loving. 40 years of her needs for affection and for contact and for attention going unmet. 

You and your wife need to have many very honest conversations. MANY!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nosexsteve said:


> "You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?"...........It didn't......but i don't want my wife to do the running - i just want her to show a spark of interest - just a 1% input - i will gladly do the rest.......
> But then again, it maybe a case of the same old story - The man is always ready for sex - but the woman isn't feeling sexy until she is actually having sex......
> I try to put myself in the woman's situation - and i think a good way for men to do this is the feeling after a man orgasms the last thing on his mind - is sex!......so, i would say to men, that feeling is probably how women feel most of the time.....would i be right!!!





nosexsteve said:


> "You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?"...........It didn't......but i don't want my wife to do the running - i just want her to show a spark of interest - just a 1% input - i will gladly do the rest.......


Years ago, when the problem started, did you talk to her about this? If so how often?

I’ll ask the question again, because it’s important. How many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you doing date like things.. quality time?

Years ago, when this all started, how many hours were you spending together in quality time?


nosexsteve said:


> But then again, it maybe a case of the same old story - The man is always ready for sex - but the woman isn't feeling sexy until she is actually having sex......


Well, it’s not true that men are always ready for sex and women always only have responsive desire. You and your wife might be like this.

A lot of women are as sexual a men and have desire along the same line as men do.

Maybe part of your problem is that you believe that stereo type and it has infected your thought process.

But let’s say for a minute that your wife has only responsive desire, then she needs the catalyst of you initiating and getting her revved up. It would think that if that’s the case, then you need to go with it. If she only has responsive desire, then that’s just her and rejecting that is rejecting her.



nosexsteve said:


> I try to put myself in the woman's situation - and i think a good way for men to do this is the feeling after a man orgasms the last thing on his mind - is sex!......so, i would say to men, that feeling is probably how women feel most of the time.....would i be right!!!


No, women do not feel like that most of the time. Women are all individuals. We are each individuals.

Here is a thread in which women talk about their sex drive… few are anything like what you think all or most women are like.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/236514-women-whats-your-sex-drive-like.html


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

I'll certainly give the talking another go - as i have many times before - but time is against me.....


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Not much quality time together Ele as my wife works strange hours - i'm going to read your link now.....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nosexsteve said:


> Not much quality time together Ele as my wife works strange hours - i'm going to read your link now.....


I love Anon Pink's posts to you. She always brings a very good perspective to things.

In her posts she talks about the only time you show your wife attention is when you want sex. This is why your wife says that you are only interested in her for sex. Because that's what it seems like to her.

There is a quote that is very much a stereo type, but it also is so true.

"Women need a reason to have sex, men only need a place."

I'm a very high drive woman. But if I'm with a guy who will not spend quality time with me I'm not interested in sex with HIM. Why would I?

Your wife works strange hours. This is a really bad think for a marriage. When couples work opposite shifts/hours, they have to work very hard to set up quality time together. It takes a couple spending at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of them, to maintain the passion in a marriage.

So, when couples work opposite shifts, that often means that most of the time when neither of them is work is couples time. It has to be planed and your life scheduled to make this work.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

To continue ( I forgot to include this in the above post.)

There are two additional books that I think would really help you and your wife. Read them in the order listed:

"Love Busters"

"His Needs, Her Needs"


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## justanothercommentor (Oct 1, 2016)

I feel for you. I have tried everything too. I am 11 years younger,and a pretty good looking woman. But,he wants nothing to do with me. I don't know why,i never with held sex,in fact,i like having sex,quite a bit. But barely once a year? I don't even try anymore. I don't even want him anymore. I have always lived by....'if you don't want me,then i don't want you'. I want someone who wants me!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

nosexsteve said:


> "You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?"...........It didn't......but i don't want my wife to do the running - i just want her to show a spark of interest - just a 1% input - i will gladly do the rest.......
> But then again, it maybe a case of the same old story - The man is always ready for sex - but the woman isn't feeling sexy until she is actually having sex......
> *I try to put myself in the woman's situation - and i think a good way for men to do this is the feeling after a man orgasms the last thing on his mind - is sex!......so, i would say to men, that feeling is probably how women feel most of the time.....would i be right*!!!


As a woman, I'd say that's a pretty accurate description! 

Of course, that doesn't happen with ALL men or ALL women.

But accurate, still the same.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Elegirl and AP--I think your advice is sound in 90% of this case, but this bothers me.




nosexsteve said:


> 3) In our 40 years of marriage she has never kissed me on her own accord.


kissing your spouse has nothing to do with spontaneous or reponsive desire. It's simple affection. 40 years with no kissing? Really? That speaks volumes to me.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

The term is refuser or gatekeeper. She sounds hardcore.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, yes you should have been more of an ******* 30+ years ago but you weren't, water under the bridge. The 100:1 rejection ratio is psycholigicaly abusive.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

"In her posts she talks about the only time you show your wife attention is when you want sex. This is why your wife says that you are only interested in her for sex. Because that's what it seems like to her.".....................Not true!!!!......i often take her hand after dinner and stroke it - kiss her tenderly before leaving work if she is in bed on a day off and i am just about to leave for work....no sex on the horizon in my mind (apart from wishful thinking).....i'm honestly not a bad guy.....is wanting sex/affection such a bad selfish thing - i just don't get it!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You won't get it if you don't ask for it.


Here. Fixed it for you...










Not quite this simple, I'm afraid. Look at the evidence, and tell me if asking for it will work. It may improve the average from twice a year to four times a year (double!) but that's not quite the improvement he has in mind.

Steve, the problem is a lot more complicated, and Anon Pink is mostly right. But extreme conditions call for extreme actions. 

First find out if anything is going on and if so, it would be a relatively simple thing to fix. If she's not, still I doubt it's fixable or worth fixing. 

If you have financial leverage you may make the process of separation a bit more interesting.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Elegirl and AP--I think your advice is sound in 90% of this case, but this bothers me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing is, it's such nuances that make or break a case...


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Ladies.....do you not ever wake up in the middle of the night craving sex - for no reason?.....I know, i just know, knowing what i know now - if i were married to someone who i thought was hungry for sex - no matter how tired i were - no matter how exhausted - and i have been - there is no way i would go to sleep until my lover was completely satisfied. I just could not abandon my partners sexual needs.....as for men who refuse their women?.....i really don't understand what makes them tick??
How about being cuddled at night while you sleep - or even caressed while you sleep - or maybe a little bit more??


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Something i found on the internet.............(written by a woman)...all about sex mistakes women make....(oh yes you do!!!)

Sex Mistake #1: Not Initiating Sex With Your Partner

Many of us worry about ladylike behavior. We don’t want to appear pushy or come on too strong for fear of being labeled aggressive. According to Les Parrot, professor of psychology at Seattle Pacific University and author of a new book called Crazy Good Sex, failing to initiate sex is one of the biggest mistakes women make.


“Most guys feel like they are always the initiator and that sets up disequilibrium on the passion scale in the relationship,” he says. Generally, men want to be pursued by their partners just as much as women do.

Holding onto outdated ideas about sex roles also inhibits satisfaction with our sexual relationships, says "Dr. Ruth," aka Ruth Westheimer, PhD, a psychosexual therapist, professor at New York University, and lecturer at Yale and Princeton universities. “They used to think that women are less interested in sexual activity and I don’t want to say that anymore. I think there are women who are as interested in sex [as men].”

Show your interest by taking the first step from time to time. Your partner will likely appreciate it, and you may find a new level of satisfaction in taking responsibility for your sexual experience, something Westheimer feels strongly women must do.
**************************************************************************************************
So......is it any wonder men are so confused....do we? ....don't we?....do we?....don't we?.....

I can say "I love you" with no inhibitions whatsoever - none - the words just flow - why can't they from my wife.
Likewise i can kiss - i can give a cheeky look that says i'm in the mood - i can do lots of these things - why is it so difficult when, in reality, SHE is the extrovert!!!......again....i don't understand.
The only conclusion i can possibly come to is that she just doesn't love me anymore - no desire - no feelings - and no love - simple as that!!!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

nosexsteve said:


> Ladies.....do you not ever wake up in the middle of the night craving sex - for no reason?.....I know, i just know, knowing what i know now - if i were married to someone who i thought was hungry for sex - no matter how tired i were - no matter how exhausted - and i have been - there is no way i would go to sleep until my lover was completely satisfied. I just could not abandon my partners sexual needs.....as for men who refuse their women?.....i really don't understand what makes them tick??
> How about being cuddled at night while you sleep - or even caressed while you sleep - or maybe a little bit more??


Steve, 

Let me put it to you straight... And I know a thing or two about how people think. You're trying to use NormalPeople (tm) thoughts on NotNormalPeople (tm) people.

It doesn't work

NormalPeople don't wake up one day and decide "jolly, I'm pi$$ed of at my spouse, I'll stop sex for the next decade or two". They may do it for a month or three, but not years, and not decades.

You're dealing with NotNormalPeople, and the odds of persevering are about as good as the odds of my cat learning Microsoft Excel. If you can talk her into serious therapy, maybe you and her can get to a better place together.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

I've taken everything in thankyou - i've learnt alot - now it's up to me. I will have the life i want one day - and hopefully my wife will also have hers - somehow this will happen - i will make sure of it. It will either be because i have initiated some kind of understanding - some kind of compromise that suits both of us and she accepts ......or it will be because the proverbial s*** has hit the fan......also thrown by me.......because unless (I) do something, nothing will ever change, so either option will bring about the change that is needed.......


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Woke up this morning - Sunday morning - alone - with all of your words of wisdom going through my head, of which i am very thankful for.....but as i have said before, i keep going around in circles and coming back to the same point. And the point i keep coming back to is that in four months my wife has not touched me - and i don't mean just intimately - i'm talking about a touch on the arm for instance.......apart from if we are shopping.....then she will, (if i don't first) take my hand!!......has anyone experienced this before. Inside the confines of our own home there is nothing....and i truly believe that the reason for this is that outside in public, she feels "safe" that i can't take affection any further.
I've been very wary to bring the subject up in case even that is taken away but i'm going to have to do it - just throw everything at the fan - at least i'm going to find out when i ask - i've really got nothing to lose!!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You must resist the temptation to come up with your own theories about why your wife doesn't.... While some men are very intuitive, a lot of men are hopelessly NOT! 


Ask your wife, you really don't have anything to lose.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm going to...definitely!!!...we are going away for a few days....and i know she is sure i am going to initiate sex....because we are away from home.....but i'm sure as hell not going to....i'm going to break the cycle, put on my bravest smile, think about other things and people, wait till we get back and fire all these questions that i need answers to....and i promise to do it with sensitivity - even though i'm feeling like a pressure cooker!!!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I'e never initiated sex with someone I've been involved with, and I can imagine that for men, this must be a really hard thing, if you have been rejected by your partners so often in the past. In all honesty, it's something I've sort of assumed is the man's role, and it always has been this way in my relationships. Even with my fiance now, he is very much into 'the chase,' maybe he likes that part of it. But, for some men, maybe they really don't like it, but are ''taught'' that this is their role. I just want to offer empathy, OP...and hope that things get better for you and your wife, soon.


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

First, I am a woman who is high sexual drive. 9 out of 10 times that we have sex, I initiate. We have drive compatibility issues as my husband is lower drive than me (but he is not considered low drive, just lower than me). It's not fun to stereotype.

Second, I am responding to your description of an event in your OP. You talk about the first massage you gave that resulted in successfully having sex with your wife. I know you gave her a massage for an hour and a half, which shows great effort. But then you mention the sex only lasted a couple of minutes before you climaxed. A massage is nice and all - but is it erotic? Is it going to make a woman orgasm?

Perhaps your wife feels like you really only care about your needs when it comes to sex itself. I'm gonna be frankly honest here with you -- if my husband gave me a massage (while I think it is a great thing and very nice), and we ended up having sex for a "few minutes" until he orgasmed.... Well... I'd be pretty disappointed in the sex. I'd kind of feel like, why did you not seem to care about my pleasure at all?

Are you sure that when you do get to have sex with your wife that you are sexually pleasing her? She may be feeling like it's all about you because you're the only one who climaxes.

As far as your suspicion about her possibly cheating - it is very possible that she could be unfaithful to you and perhaps has found another person to fulfill her sexually. You need to head over to the "Coping with Infidelity" board, there is a thread there on evidence gathering. Maybe you will turn up with no evidence and it's just a fluke, or maybe you will find something.... But if you have a suspicion don't ignore it. Many times your gut feeling is correct. Just don't confront your wife about any possible affair unless you have solid evidence that she cannot refute.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

nosexsteve said:


> I'm scared, frightened.......angry.....crying alot......


Why are you scared and crying? About getting no sex? Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? I suggest you do. I strongly suggest you do.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

nosexsteve said:


> "You shoot yourself in the foot when you stop being affectionate and stop initiating sex because you want your spouse to do it. How'd that work out for you?"...........It didn't......but i don't want my wife to do the running - i just want her to show a spark of interest - just a 1% input - i will gladly do the rest.......
> *But then again, it maybe a case of the same old story - The man is always ready for sex - but the woman isn't feeling sexy until she is actually having sex......
> I try to put myself in the woman's situation - and i think a good way for men to do this is the feeling after a man orgasms the last thing on his mind - is sex!......so, i would say to men, that feeling is probably how women feel most of the time.....would i be right!!!*


No, you would be 100% wrong in my world.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Anon Pink said:


> You're almost right.
> 
> A woman, such as you wife, with responsive desire doesn't want sex unless she feels aroused. She doesn't feel aroused until she is sexually engaged. Therefore she doesn't have a desire for sex until she is sexually engaged.
> 
> ...


This ^ Especially the bolded.

My wife is responsive desire. Something I didn't know about until TAM.

She, too, has accused me of only showing affection when I want sex, but she's slowly coming around to the fact that that's not entirely true AND also that it's perfectly normal.

It's tricky, though, because obviously there ARE times when I'm being affectionate or what-have-you for the purpose of having sex. But that's normal. How else is one supposed to initiate sex?

And that's the part she doesn't quite 'get', I suppose, and she's not alone in that, either. For people who are responsive desire, they DO tend to think that every touch, kiss or hug has an agenda behind it. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

For those that are not responsive desire, they recognize that that's how you initiate sex, generally speaking.

So, 8 years on, she still struggles with it from time to time. I've point-blank asked her HOW I should initiate sex, then. She says she doesn't know. Should I ask her? No. Should we schedule it? No.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

nosexsteve said:


> I'm going to...definitely!!!...we are going away for a few days....and i know she is sure i am going to initiate sex....because we are away from home.....but i'm sure as hell not going to....i'm going to break the cycle, put on my bravest smile, think about other things and people, wait till we get back and fire all these questions that i need answers to....and i promise to do it with sensitivity - even though i'm feeling like a pressure cooker!!!



Before you leave:

Tell her you want to take this time away from home as an opportunity to gain in understanding how she feels about sex in general, about sex with you, about her satisfaction level with your sex life, about what she would ideally like, and last of all...about what she thinks you think about these things.

Tell her you always want to have sex with her, but you want her to want it too and this is why you have not initiates sex with her for the last 16 years.

If your wife doesn't want sex, doesn't like sex, has a negative attitude about sex, then you know she is what @john117 calls NotNormalPeople and a hard core refuser. 

But if your wife is under the impression that it's the man's role to initiate all sex and all affection, then you've got a LOT of years of her feeling unwanted, undesirable, and resentment over it.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Before you leave:
> 
> Tell her you want to take this time away from home as an opportunity to gain in understanding how she feels about sex in general, about sex with you, about her satisfaction level with your sex life, about what she would ideally like, and last of all...about what she thinks you think about these things.
> 
> ...


I recognize that it's a "thing" that some women believe that initiation should be 100% on the man. I don't agree with it but I realize it's a thing. 

I've never heard that it's a thing where all affection should be solely started by the man. That strikes me as a lot more extreme. That ain't NormalPeople behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Lisamaree - sorry, but you have completely misread me.....

"Perhaps your wife feels like you really only care about your needs when it comes to sex itself. I'm gonna be frankly honest here with you -- if my husband gave me a massage (while I think it is a great thing and very nice), and we ended up having sex for a "few minutes" until he orgasmed.... Well... I'd be pretty disappointed in the sex. I'd kind of feel like, why did you not seem to care about my pleasure at all"?

I actually said "with a happy ending"....meaning with clitoral stimulation towards the end of the massage until she climaxed - i would never dream in a million years of being so selfish.

I have to say that i'm getting the feeling that maybe i've come to the wrong place here - i feel as though i'm being painted as the one who should take full responsibility for everything here - and thinking about it - i don't believe it's fair.
Ok....i should take responsibility for solving the problem - but it takes two to tango. All i want is for my wife to put in a little effort - is this too much to ask - just a little - i'll do the rest!!!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I recognize that it's a "thing" that some women believe that initiation should be 100% on the man. I don't agree with it but I realize it's a thing.
> 
> I've never heard that it's a thing where all affection should be solely started by the man. That strikes me as a lot more extreme. That ain't NormalPeople behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree that though it wrongly places and unfair burden on a man, it is more common than it should be. 

I think there are a great many factors into the why's and wherefore' of this mistaken belief and its continued practice even among women who ought to know better.

Resentment can easily keep a woman from offering, let alone initiating, sex and or affection. 
@nosexsteve

Talk to your wife!!!!!!!!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> I recognize that it's a "thing" that some women believe that initiation should be 100% on the man. I don't agree with it but I realize it's a thing.
> 
> I've never heard that it's a thing where all affection should be solely started by the man. That strikes me as a lot more extreme. That ain't NormalPeople behavior.


I agree that it's not normal behavior.

However, I think that the op's wife is older since they have been married for 40 years. I do know that it was very common in the past to teach girls that they must not be aggressive when it comes to sex. That a proper woman was submissive. Add that to the head trip put on a lot of women that women did not enjoy sex, that sex is the only reason that men want to be around a woman and you end up with a woman with a pretty screwed up view of sex and marriage.

I recall being told all that and a lot more that in my way of thinking is just wrong. I'm not sure why, but I dismissed it all as stupid. But a lot of women bought into it hook line and sinker.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nosexsteve said:


> Lisamaree - sorry, but you have completely misread me.....
> 
> "Perhaps your wife feels like you really only care about your needs when it comes to sex itself. I'm gonna be frankly honest here with you -- if my husband gave me a massage (while I think it is a great thing and very nice), and we ended up having sex for a "few minutes" until he orgasmed.... Well... I'd be pretty disappointed in the sex. I'd kind of feel like, why did you not seem to care about my pleasure at all"?
> 
> ...


When you want to quote something that another poster wrote... use the "quote" button on the bottom right of their post. Then you will get the nice quote box like you see here for the other person's words.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nosexsteve said:


> I actually said "with a happy ending"....meaning with clitoral stimulation towards the end of the massage until she climaxed - i would never dream in a million years of being so selfish.
> 
> I have to say that i'm getting the feeling that maybe i've come to the wrong place here - i feel as though i'm being painted as the one who should take full responsibility for everything here - and thinking about it - i don't believe it's fair.


I agree that it's unfair for you have the full responsibility for everything sexual in your marriage. But to fix this, you need to start with the reality that you are faced with. You can very possibly change this over time. But to do it you need to have a lot talks with her. A marriage counselor might help... especially one who is also a sex therapist.



nosexsteve said:


> Ok....i should take responsibility for solving the problem - but it takes two to tango. All i want is for my wife to put in a little effort - is this too much to ask - just a little - i'll do the rest!!!


While it might seem unfair that you are being told ways for you to fix this, you are the only person who is here. Your wife is not here so we cannot talk to her. Since you are here and you want this to improve, you are the only one we can suggest things to.

I wish you wife were here, then we could talk to her too.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

I think you have hit the nail on the head there - and i think i'm guilty....putting the "talk to your wife" bit to one side - that's going to happen.....but meanwhile the resentment definitely builds up inside me....i know that....i can feel it....definitely....and i'm sure that doesn't make me attractive. So i have to find a way to break away from the cycle.
I wish i didn't need sex and affection - then everything would be great.....i could go through life and not give a stuff!!!
I was out last night - with friends - and i was talking to a female friend who i've met before and when we said goodnight she gave me this amazing hug....it just felt odd....i didn't ask for it....it just came....and it gave me such a bolt of self confidence.....how sad is this!!!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Gate keeper. She likes and uses the power.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

........No....she has said on many occasions that sex isn't everything!....and surely...if she wanted sex why never ever touch me?.....why lay in bed on Facebook?.....i can't play guessing games anymore....got to ask outright - no matter what the outcome.....Thing is....if there has ever been an affair then the marriage is over.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> No, you would be 100% wrong in my world.


If all women were like you then i probably wouldn't have a problem - and i wouldn't have the need to post here. It seems all women are different there and i wonder why - your husband/partner must be one very lucky guy!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

nosexsteve said:


> I'm ashamed to say i am snooping - and finding lots of nice new panties that she never wears with me......i'm beginning to think "affair"......even though our ages are not young....


Did you all miss this?

I admit when I read you'd been married for 40 years, I assumed you two were close to 70. It was a teenage marriage obviously because she's only in her late 50s, so it's not like she couldn't be having an affair. I would highly suspect that's *exactly* what's going on.

Just looking at this honestly, it appears she lost her attraction and desire for you _years_ ago (for whatever reason). I get the distinct impression that since you two married when you were practically babies, you're all she's ever known and she wouldn't know *how* to live her life without you in it, at this point. I think that's a large part as to why she's remained married all these years even though she checked out emotionally a long time ago - because this is the only life she's *known* for 40 years. 

But buying fancy new panties is such a* classic* sign of cheating, and when you add on the 'strange' hours she works, that just gives her all the more opportunity to get away with it.

This whole situation is so cliche.

Trust me when I tell you - crying and begging is unattractive as hell. You're doing yourself *no* favors at all acting like a love starved puppy desperate for a pat on the head from her, so stop it.

I don't believe you when you say if there was an affair the marriage would be over, but I think you should start preparing for the eventuality of quite possibly finding out that she is indeed having an affair.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Did you all miss this?
> 
> I admit when I read you'd been married for 40 years, I assumed you two were close to 70. It was a teenage marriage obviously because she's only in her late 50s, so it's not like she couldn't be having an affair. I would highly suspect that's *exactly* what's going on.
> 
> ...


Steve,

Would you please read this about ten more times. Women DO NOT buy panties and lingerie in order to hide them in a drawer. if you want to invest about $100 in a VAR to put in her car and get copies of your phone bills to see if there are not strange numbers appearing, you will most likely get an answer quickly. 

or you can keep begging and being played . your call.


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## StikkyEbi (Oct 5, 2016)

Might I just say that perhaps you are with the wrong woman and there should really be a lot more communication. I'd love it if my husband bought me massage oils and spent some time massaging me and did more foreplay especially with a vibrator. However, maybe those things aren't your wives sort of thing. However, the only way you can know what she is into is with open and honest communication on both sides with both sides being honest. Even if there is an affair things are fixable in some cases, but maybe it would be good to see a sex and marriage therapist.


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

StikkyEbi said:


> I'd love it if my husband bought me massage oils and spent some time massaging me and did more foreplay especially with a vibrator.
> 
> Given the chance - this is the best part of sex for me......i could spend hours massaging and using the vibrator......even though i say so myself i know i'm good. I warm the oils - i start very slowly - i never touch her erogenous areas until near the end - i always build up. I prepare everything.......would it hurt for her to ask me.....do i have to beg/ask her to give her a massage???......what i would give for that to be done to me!!!
> .. I go to bed every night whispering to myself "I don't understand"....i've said it thousands of times!!!
> ...


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## Eramosa (Aug 21, 2016)

Why has it taken you so long to question things at this point? You sound very despondent. You need to start acting on your talk, "**** or get off the pot" as they say. If I can throw out another cliché I would say "you can't change someone else you can only change yourself." someone told me that ( maybe it was here) but it stuck and if you follow my one and only post you will see it's a pretty short thread. I did something. I got into therapy to find out what was wrong with ME . My sitch was a bit different but the point that is you really have to look at yourself and talk to your wife. It's hard but you can do it. I know you can because I did. As a side note: everyone is different and has different life stories and experience you can't fit people ( men and women) into categories it just doesn't work that way- not anymore. Come here for support for sure but you can't figure out your wife by asking what " women" want/ do, you have to ask her, regardless of how difficult and painful that may be. Best of luck, I hope you find peace and happiness in the end. 

Sent from my SM-G850W using Tapatalk


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## nosexsteve (Oct 1, 2016)

Yep....ok....all points taken now....im off to fix this...one way or another so won't be posting for anymore advice....thanks everyone...


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