# Desperate for the truth



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hello to all the members of this amazing forum, I am Torn. Literally. I need help in the worst way. I am hoping I can find some sage advise here. Long story (whose isn't)? I found out in March that my husband of 30 years was indeed having an affair of which I suspected for 2 years. The entire 2 years was a living hell...the last 7 months worse with the continued lying and manipulation of my feelings. I can't find my way out of this hole he put me in and I have become someone I despise because of it. He says he loves me and always has that he made a mistake that he will regret for the rest of his life, that he had no feelings for the other woman, which I find impossible because I called him out on the affair a dozen times while it was going on...I have no idea how to proceed, where to turn or what to do. If anyone can help I would be so grateful.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am so sorry you are here. Your husband is a hot mess. 

Are you two still together? Do you have children living at home or that depend on you? Can you be financially secure if separation or divorce happen? Do you have people you can trust and talk about this with? Be careful with depression and anxiety at this time. It may be a good idea to talk to your doctor about your stressful situation at home and get meds to better cope with your husband's insanity so to speak.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Thanks for replying Bibi. Yes we are still together but fighting horribly because he continued to lie to me about the affair. Originally he said it was just one kiss and sexting that happened in a one month time span but come to learn by investigating it was 2 years and much more sexual. I knew it was happening by his behavior, his forgotten deleted emails and texts but he always convinced me I was insane...every time. My children are both grown but my daughter still lives at home and what she has witnesses is abhorrent. I don't work at the present moment and sadly can't leave because of finances.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I lived your hell about 15 years ago. I know you probably love this man that on the outside is your husband, but boy is he a different person in reality right now. Please remember that he is not the man you married and loved at this point. This will really help you not owning a lot of the nonsense that spews out of him. Cheaters lie, plain and simple. 

Please start the 180 on him. Consult a lawyer and find out your rights. He is pretty much going through a crisis and is a raging teenager on the inside with the benefit of his age and having solvency that can greatly mess with your finances now and in the future. 

If you can, live as roomies and don't sleep in the same bedroom as him. You need your private space. Get into counseling ASAP. Make sure the affair is truly over because he very well may have taken it underground or even be with someone else by now. Remember cheaters cheat and don't normally stop. Once a cheater, alwsys a cheater is the rule and not the exception.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Bibi, he says the affair is over and has been since the day it finally came out but he works with her so he does see her. I check his phone and email and I have seen no contact there. I also called her and her boyfriend numerous times, in fact a full year before the confession I spoke with her and she denied it and both convinced me I was being paranoid. 

I knew the whole time something was up...at one point I deleted her contact info but her number came up under a mans name 2 days later. When I questioned him he said it was because I was being jealous and he didn't want to deal with it...he went so far as to say "If I saw her I would laugh at how ridiculous it was". I guess implying she was unattractive. He said over and over that there was something wrong with me...I made the mistake of drinking too much over this situation and he used that as leverage calling me drunk and ridiculous.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> both convinced me I was being paranoid.
> he said it was because I was being jealous and he didn't want to deal with it...
> He said over and over that there was something wrong with me..
> (mistake) he used that as leverage calling me drunk and ridiculous.


Well, they are both right on-script.... these can all be found in "The Cheater's Handbook". The first and fourth statements can be found under "gaslighting". The second, and third statements are examples of "blame-shifting".



Bibi1031 said:


> Once a cheater, alwsys a cheater is the rule and not the exception.


 @Bibi1031 is exactly spot-on. It's unfortunately true that most cheaters do not find their way back to fidelity. The recidivism rate is quite high.

The principal reasons for the "rule" can be found in the 4 statements above. All of those statements blame _someone else_, and prevent the cheater from "owning" his own culpability, which, in truth, is 100% his. His marital partner has nothing whatsoever to do with his choice to cheat. It's all on him. 

After getting caught, they become very adept at hiding either the continuation of the ongoing affair, or the "next" affair, and without admitting "fault", there can be no repentance.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW, you are so right...they both had the same script when I confronted them...just one little kiss and some inappropriate texting. Come to find hundreds of pictures, video, goggle searches for hotels, Viagra, oils for sex, massage etc. They also communicated everyday on words with friends since he knew I would question phone texts outside of work. I am blown away at the way I was gaslighted. The rage is always there because I questioned him dozens of times...How could I have questioned my own sanity?


He continues to insist it is over and has begged to make the marriage work but since it came to light he continued to lie about it all. Blow jobs in the car at lunch isn't an innocent kiss in the stairwell.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

One of the worst things about your situation (and all the situations other people have been through like this) is the lying and the gaslighting. 

I see what you said about finances and feeling stuck because you have no way of supporting yourself financially. 

I have been through this and one of the toughest things to deal with is the infuriation of discovering that the person upon which you placed the most trust in your life has completely betrayed you. 

Can people recover from affairs? YES, they can.

But, that depends very much on how each person in the relationship commits and follows through with the commitment GOING FORWARD.

It also depends on what YOU want to do. 

Both people have to start at the baseline of making a commitment to the relationship. Nothing can happen until that baseline is established.

From there, absolute openness and honesty must happen every single moment of every single day.

A site that I found very helpful is Marriage Builders. It's free and has some very sound advice in many areas. In your particular situation, check out: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

I don't want you to misunderstand what I'm saying here - you do NOT have to continue the relationship if you re-establish yourself in the workplace and decide to move on. That's all up to you. But if you are interested in continuing with your husband past the affair, there are ways of doing that.

But complete, utter, blatant, unabashed openness and honesty is the only way forward. No secrets and ZERO communication with the affair partner - by either of you. Concentrate on your relationship, not the affair partner (you don't want to be pulling energy away from your relationship by letting the affair partner suck attention out of you.)


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Thank you happiness...I think after the affair came out I could have moved forward but he continued to lie day after day. He promised he would never lie again yet the truth came out in dribs and drabs as I discovered new things. He said I was "looking for things" instead of simply putting it behind me. Damn straight I went looking it was a 2 year affair!!! Was it wrong of me to try and reconstruct what was actually happening? 

He did say yesterday that he will no longer talk about the affair period that the only truth I needed to know was that he loved me.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Boy do these cheaters pick some low lives to cheat with don't they?

Please realize that his behavior will not change just because he was outed. He is simply doing damage control with all his talk of the affair ending and him wanting to work on the marriage. He got away with deceit for two years. Don't be fooled again. Can he get switched to another department at work or get work elsewhere? If they work together, they more than likely are still screwing each other just paying lip Service that things are over. 

Check the money leaks. They may very well have apps to their phones you will not have access too. They may even have burner phones they keep for just contactkng each other. You don't have to file for divorce, but you may be able to legally seperate and tske care of your financial assets before your husband depletes on his bimbo what also belongs to you. You need to stop the wasting of marital assets on an affair partner/partners.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you happiness...I think after the affair came out I could have moved forward but he continued to lie day after day. He promised he would never lie again yet the truth came out in dribs and drabs as I discovered new things. He said I was "looking for things" instead of simply putting it behind me. Damn straight I went looking it was a 2 year affair!!! Was it wrong of me to try and reconstruct what was actually happening?
> 
> He did say yesterday that he will no longer talk about the affair period that the only truth I needed to know was that he loved me.


I didn't let my husband pole-vault over the situation.

Here's what I said to my husband and what he agreed to finally: I get to talk about it for as long as I want to talk about it until every single question I had was answered and I was finally satisfied that I had talked about it to my satisfaction. 

Some partners whose spouse has had an affair will not want to know the details. Some spouses do want to talk about it. 

I'm not going to tell you what is right for you and your situation. But I can only share how I thought and felt. 

Because there were so many secrets and gas lighting for so long - the only way to build trust was to put all the cards on the table.

And yeah, the stories started with "We had lunch together" then, "I went to dinner at her house once" then "I went to dinner at her house twice" "I went to dinner at her house three times" and then "Well, I helped her move" then "I never had contact with her after XX time" "Then, yeah, we've been corresponding for 10 years..."

You just can NOT live with a liar. If he wants the relationship, the only way forward is to come completely clean - completely - and stop the lying behavior. Not talking about it allows them to keep the truth to themselves - which is PRECISELY the PROBLEM.

I hope you both take a look at that article. 

My husband and I went to a lot of marriage counseling and individual counseling. The reason we are still together and going strong is that he committed himself, slowly but surely, to the absolute truth and agreed to talk about every single detail I requested he elaborate upon.

The lies re-wrote our history. What I THOUGHT was happening in our lives together was overwritten by the secret life he was leading. I don't like to compare - but I will say that I feel our situation was not as big as your situation. If your husband wants his marriage, it's going to no longer be on his terms as he has already proven that his terms are unreliable.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Bibi, the woman he cheated with works in the same building and is engaged to someone else which is completely messed up. I am ashamed to say I did send her some horrific texts messages and threatened to post some of her naked pictures on Homewreckers...thankfully I didn't. 

I handle all the money which is another big issue between us, he takes no responsibility in paying the bills. I doubt he even knows what we have in our daughters college fund. 

One thing he did which was absolutely insane to me was he claimed to have hit another car backing up and needed to pay the guy 300 dollars...all my alarm bells went off so I insisted he use a check, he got so indignant that he was trying to scam money claiming how he would NEVER do that...turns out that is exactly what he did. That story changed 5 times before I got the truth. Otherwise he has not touched a dime.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

To translate what some people I think are saying in harsher terms is that in order for their to be a legitimate chance at reconciliation, your husband has to realize beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is is a low down dirty rat and pathetic excuse for a human being and lower than a snake. He has to crawl on his belly like the snake he is.

Until he is ready to do that and look in the mirror and himself and see all the ugliness, then there isn't much hope


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Happiness, Pole vault!! That is exactly what he wants! I made a mistake can't we move on? A mistake is once, maybe twice but 2 freaking years? Our 30th wedding anniversary came and went without a card, nothing except him watching videos of her masturbating which I found out about after obtaining his google account password. I couldn't even comprehend the depravity. 


I admire that you could move forward and am glad your marriage is back on track I just don't think he will change his mind about talking about it. He said I already know everything which is what he said the last 50 times. I am Charlie Brown and he is Lucy.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

So Desperate for the truth, what is your plan for going forward? Please don't drink his koolaid. He should be grovrling at your feet instead of rugsweeping his cheating ways. He is up to no good for you or the marriage at this point. He feels no remorse. He is still deceitful and refuses to come clean by stating that he will not talk about the affair as it is over. That is ridiculous. He must agree to counseling and disclose all. If he is unwelling to this, you can't rebuild any relationship with your husband. He has no real interest in saving anything he destroyed. He is simply biting time. He will become worse if you allow the rugsweeping. Don't be intimidated by his stance. Find out your rights. You have been married to this fool for 30 years. Legally, that gives you plenty of leverage financially. Emotionally is a different story.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

jorgegene...he has admitted that what he did was absolutely vile, especially how he was gaslighting me. He thinks enough time has gone by since it ended that he is being punished for something that is in the past. I say you lied last week so for me it isn't over.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Bibi, I just don't know...part of me thinks 30 years is so long...truthfully I am frightened to death. I know I am at the point where being alone seems much better than this hell I am keeping myself in.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Bibi, I just don't know...part of me thinks 30 years is so long...truthfully I am frightened to death. I know I am at the point where being alone seems much better than this hell I am keeping myself in.


Of course this is frightening, but you do know the truth. It is ugly, but you are not in the dark anymore. Will your husband agree to counseling? Having a good grip on the finances is great. I was not that lucky. His affair partner doesn't want him as she is with another poor cuckold. Does he even know what this woman is doing behind his back? She sounds beyond nasty.

You are right in that you are going through hell, an emotionally devasting hell indead. But you need to stay where you are because you need to look after your best interest and that of your kids. You must detach from your husband if he is unwilling to work on the marriage by going to counseling. Hopefully he does agree to counseling. It will take time, but he may start seeing just how badly he damaged his marriage and you. Right now, he is quite frankly remorseless and clueless.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Happiness, Pole vault!! That is exactly what he wants! I made a mistake can't we move on? A mistake is once, maybe twice but 2 freaking years? Our 30th wedding anniversary came and went without a card, nothing except him watching videos of her masturbating which I found out about after obtaining his google account password. I couldn't even comprehend the depravity.
> 
> 
> I admire that you could move forward and am glad your marriage is back on track I just don't think he will change his mind about talking about it. He said I already know everything which is what he said the last 50 times. I am Charlie Brown and he is Lucy.


Oh My God: Lucy with the football! That's EXACTLY what I said to MY husband!!!!

I just talked to my husband about your post (he is also on TAM but we read different things sometimes and discuss them). What my husband said was that he noticed that he would do the same thing: Swear to himself and to me that from now on, everything would change and he would not engage in the behaviors anymore (his behaviors came down to lusting after women without acting on it - some degree of progress in his mind) BUT, because he there were times he didn't look at himself and talk about details, he found that he just reverted to lusting after other women. Some guys may see this as harmless, but for a guy who has committed adulterous behaviors, even the act of lusting after other women is a slippery slope.

What my husband said if he didn't talk about his behavior then, in his mind, he could talk himself into "This isn't a problem." He wouldn't have to do anything about it. He wouldn't have to examine himself - and therefore he wouldn't change anything. He could just continue the pattern of lying and behaviors because there were no consequences for his actions.

We employed therapy to get through this. I really think that it helps the individuals come to a clearer understanding of themselves as individuals and then how to proceed as a couple. 

Ultimately, my husband gained a lot of insight about why he needed to pursue the path of secrecy and lies about his sexual behaviors and how he was using that as a way of validating himself - and it was selfish. It was all about him and taking care of himself with no thought to how his behavior was effecting anyone else.

There is a way out of this selfishness IF and ONLY IF the selfish spouse becomes willing to change. Some will, some won't. And then there is the offended spouse and what that spouse's redline is.

I stood my ground. I insisted on complete utter openness and honesty and did not relent. It was extremely difficult. I called him out at every turn. I never let him deny and get away with anything. All of our passwords and devices are open to the other person. No lying is allowed, no secrets are allowed. Rebuilding trust means both people agree to those terms and adhere to those terms. If either one can not, then there is no basis for trust, which is the cornerstone of any relationship.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you happiness...I think after the affair came out I could have moved forward but he continued to lie day after day. He promised he would never lie again yet the truth came out in dribs and drabs as I discovered new things. He said I was "looking for things" instead of simply putting it behind me. Damn straight I went looking it was a 2 year affair!!! Was it wrong of me to try and reconstruct what was actually happening?
> 
> He did say yesterday that he will no longer talk about the affair period that the only truth I needed to know was that he loved me.


First rule, if they still work together then the affair is ongoing. 

He is a proven liar. He is still lying. 

You need to find a job of some kind and prepare for divorce.

I am sorry...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Without consequences he's not likely to change at all.

You need to get willing to stop believing his lies and start imposing consequences that make him very uncomfortable.

Have you considered making him move out? Quit that job? Filefor divorce? 

If you divorce - you still get spousal support - can you do that?


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> First rule, if they still work together then the affair is ongoing.
> 
> He is a proven liar. He is still lying.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the fact that there is still contact with the affair partner is a problem. 

Why the 'ell to people not learn this one really important rule in advance: "You don't sh*t where you eat."


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Bibi, he has agreed to marriage therapy in fact we went to one early this week but she was insistent I take medication for depression in conjunction with the therapy and I said no. We will look for another one.


The OW boyfriend knows because I called and texted him. I don't think he believes the length of time or the extent of their sexual relationship but she admitted to him they were sexting and fooling around "a little".


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Happiness, the reasoning of why he continued to lie is absolutely insane to me...I mean I saw pictures and videos...I was able to retrieve old text messages and chats...One night we got into a huge fight before the affair was revealed and I left to go to a hotel...I stood in the driveway and said will you stop texting her and he said no...the next day he had me convinced it was still just my imagination...he said later that he thought he was covering his tracks. He had convinced himself he was not having an affair. He does say often it was mostly "sexting bull****".


Blues...don't be sorry at all, I think I am starting to realize that. 


Beach, he is in his late 50's and quitting his job isn't feasible but I have considered that as an option.


I will get half of his pension from another job and probably some alimony but I will be broke...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Bibi, he has agreed to marriage therapy in fact we went to one early this week but she was insistent I take medication for depression in conjunction with the therapy and I said no. We will look for another one.
> 
> The OW boyfriend knows because I called and texted him. I don't think he believes the length of time or the extent of their sexual relationship but she admitted to him they were sexting and fooling around "a little".


Why are you unwilling to look to any meds to help with your depression? You understand that in that frame of mind you are not able to actually think completely clearly. 

Until you get yourself together, you may not really be able to see what is actually going on. 

And the OW is gas lighting her stupid BF, just like your H has done with you. 

If this affair is not still ongoing, I will eat my hat, and it is a big hat...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues, I just didn't like how insistent she was...I have taken them once and it made me worse...made my lows really low...scary low. 


What is your idea of a big hat? LOL


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Okay, you are taking a stand for yourself and you are looking for another therapist, that's all good. 

I can understand that the medical community's answer for anxiety and depression is drugs. That's not my decision to make or have an opinion about - that's your decision to make. There's also yoga, exercise and meditation but I'm not endorsing anything - it's your decision.

Did the therapist insist that HE take medication? Maybe something to make him stop gas lighting and lying? (okay, trying to inject some dark humor - tell me if I just stepped over the line...)


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Happiness...no the therapist didn't but I was crying and he was much calmer. It really was the first time I heard an honest rendition of the story from him and I was quite off the beam. Absolutely not over the line.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Bibi, I just don't know...part of me thinks 30 years is so long...truthfully I am frightened to death. I know I am at the point where being alone seems much better than this hell I am keeping myself in.


Sorry you are being treated in such a heinous manner. I left a miserable marriage after 25+ years and it was the best thing I've ever done. It was totally scary especially financially--you can do this. Talk to a lawyer about your rights. You must do this to help relieve your limbo and in order to make wise choices. 

*Some info compiled from others:* He doesn't love you, he loves himself and doesn't want to lose $$$ this close to retirement. 

I'm sorry your marriage as you knew it is over. Physically, emotionally, mentally you've just been hit by a large boulder. Take at least 3-4 months before making any decision to divorce or reconcile. You'll need this time to heal and reach a point where you can make a wise our decision. 

2 years is an important affair--why do you let him gaslight and rewrite the truth you KNOW? You may chose to rebuild a new marriage or D...the decision is entirely yours. During the next 3-4 months your husband needs to show REMORSE for hurting you as well as convince you that he's a safe partner going forward (that he will not cheat again). Your husband is doing the opposite--still trying to control you by refusing to do any of the work a wandering spouse must do.

Your husband is no longer the guy you married. You don't know this person--an adulterer Tell your doctor what's going on in your life. You should be tested for STD's. 

There should be no further contact with the OW. Even at this age, he must no longer work with his AP. This is non negotiable and a cost of his infidelity. 

Do not move out of your house without first discussing with an attorney. Be aware of his financial shenanigans.

180/Tough Love approach tends to be the ONLY method that works. You can’t change the WS but you can change yourself and that will have an effect on them. The goal is to make yourself happy without them and show them you don’t need them. They cheated because they didn’t respect you and odds are you don’t even respect yourself. Once they realize you will be fine without them they tend to panic and realize they made a mistake and try to win you back.

As much as possible, distance yourself from him so that you can heal, and so you are not constantly reminded about his cheating. He could sleep on the couch, no sex, join a gym and get in shape, take up a new hobby, buy some new clothes, no date nights, no casual social chats about his day, and don't listen to his 'problems' or let him lean on you - you're the victim here. 

Finally, HE must take full responsibility for his decision to commit adultery (and not blame you in any way).

No marriage counseling at this time. Marriage counseling is for a broken marriage - not for a broken wife.
Your husband should seek counseling to fix himself.
You should seek individual counseling to heal from his decision to cheat.

I will send another post about what he should be doing.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Happiness...no the therapist didn't but I was crying and he was much calmer. It really was the first time I heard an honest rendition of the story from him and I was quite off the beam. Absolutely not over the line.


The observation that I've come to over the years is that people who are expressing their feelings openly and honestly are the ones who are the most genuine. It seems like the reaction to that sometimes is to try and make the person who is being genuine and expressing their true feelings NOT do that. Why? Is it because the people observing that are uncomfortable observing a person who is expressing their sadness, hurt and grief? When another person expresses their sadness, hurt and grief, it puts the observers in the position of having to get in touch with their own feelings of sadness, hurt and grief. And that can feel threatening to them. They might feel out of control of their emotions - and a lot of people find that feeling painful feelings is scary. 

People who express their sadness, hurt and grief are the ones who are willing to do the hard work of walking through the reality. When we do this kind of hard work, we actually make a lot more progress than people who stuff it.

What would happen if your husband were to be able to express his feelings of true remorse by crying and feeling the sadness of hurting you and losing you over his actions? Wouldn't that be more genuine?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Happiness, he has cried and begged a number of times but usually after a big fight. He says almost daily how he wants this to work and he realizes the pain he caused...I think... ok you are sorry you ran me over but should I lay down in the drive again? There is a part of me that thinks he is genuine. 


Sunsetmist, one of the largest hurdles I am having is that I accepted the gaslighting...that I was duped so badly. It was so bad I ignored texts like "That's a nice ass" anticipating his "story" that would wash it away for him...


Sadly my behavior at times was pathetic because I drank and fought...I know now that is no longer acceptable.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

sunsetmist said:


> Sorry you are being treated in such a heinous manner. I left a miserable marriage after 25+ years and it was the best thing I've ever done. It was totally scary especially financially--you can do this. Talk to a lawyer about your rights. You must do this to help relieve your limbo and in order to make wise choices.
> 
> *Some info compiled from others:* He doesn't love you, he loves himself and doesn't want to lose $$$ this close to retirement.
> 
> ...


I don't think marriage counseling is ONLY for repairing a marriage and I know that sounds so dumb. But to my way of thinking, marriage counseling can also be to help the couple clarify if the marriage is going to go forward or not. It can help couples "uncouple" rationally. 

Marriage counseling also puts another set of eyes on the interaction between the two people. When one spouse is lying and gas lighting, it's easier to see that when the couple is interacting in front of a therapist together. In individual therapy, the therapist is only getting one-sided viewpoints. When the couple is together, you get both sides out in the open. 

Individual therapy is still important on top of that. That said, it's incredible how a lying spouse can also lie to the therapist and waste a bunch of time and money getting no where.

Personally, I have to agree with you on tough love in a situation like this. He sounds like an unremorseful cheater. That needs to turn around 180, no question, or nothing will be salvageable.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

This is LONG and from another site and describes to the betrayer what the betrayed feels. You, too, should recognize what is normal for you. 

(From another infidelity site: from Hufi-Pufi - Original author unknown)
Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT. 
They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you'll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don't see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. 

They're unpredictable. There's no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can't sleep. They can't eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there's nothing left. It's terrible. 
It's an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what's worse; you don't know what to do. You're not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they'll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they're always caught by surprise; first by their partners' knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they'll face "after" until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses' overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to "normal." You ask yourself, "Is this real?" Then you ask, "Will this ever end?" 
The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse? 
Be honest with yourself: If you can't or don't want to get over your affair, if you don't feel shame and remorse, and if you can't generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.) 
But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you've wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery. 

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let's start with three foundational facts: 
1.	What you're seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event. 
2.	Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal. 
3.	You can be a positive influence on their recovery. 
Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue. 

Your first mission is to learn. 
Learning about your partner's myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time. 
Below you'll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don't be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we've added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply "be there." 
Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly. 

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS 
DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can't be true. They don't believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don't want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.) 

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can't seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives. 

REALITY: "Oh my God. It really happened." They feel they're getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It's as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they're buried beneath them. They don't know where to turn, or can't. Don't discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of "being irrational" or "acting crazy." Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help. 

CONFUSION: They're disoriented. They can't think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can't remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain "triggers." (Note: Read more about "triggers" below.) 

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don't nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don't cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they're not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It's a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your "couplehood." 

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to "get it all out." Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best "general use" tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you'll see many more references below. Read "Apologize" in Section 2.) 

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don't be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it's beneficial. 

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it. 
Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you're still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don't match the story you tell, they'll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you'll never again be unfaithful. 
WHY: They ask, "Why did you do this?" They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can't stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question "Why?" over and over and over again. 

INJUSTICE: They feel it's all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a "revenge affair." 
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: "I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty' verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?" 

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no "justice" that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read "Share your feelings of guilt and shame" in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn't give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don't ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They'll know if you aren't, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more. 

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and "messed it up." Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven't found new ones yet and don't seem interested in finding any. They feel they're not coping with grief "right" or they feel they should be healing faster. They don't understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don't or can't fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they're doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don't be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others. 

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don't be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that's really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It's actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they've worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal. 

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life. 

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: "One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger." The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: "On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain." The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking. 

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they're caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating. 
Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are. 
Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you're sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse's waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again. 
It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don't ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be "over it" because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be "over it." They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS? 
Make certain you've killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don't deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly. 
This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER. 

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don't delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you're making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a "moderate-term" review rather than "short-term." Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: "Apologize, apologize, apologize." You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated "insincerity radar." A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don't merely say, "I'm sorry." To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that's now salient to your partner: "I'm ashamed I cheated on you and I'm so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me." As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best "general use" tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It's agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can't help it: Just as they didn't choose for this to happen, they don't choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse's case), even if they don't understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them. 

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they're greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they're 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of "covering your tracks" must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency. 
You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don't know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you'll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately. 
The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more "trust chits" you'll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the "reverse image" of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they're a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they'll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don't take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the "Passed the Test" column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again. 

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don't be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They're likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don't expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don't be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what's called ‘Hysterical Bonding.' Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want. 

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they'll wonder if you're truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it's really worth another try with you. But if you're like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You'll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It's a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn't seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, "If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?" (Most of us would answer, "No," even if we can't imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it's meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you've done and rebuild your marriage. You'll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE'S A GREAT TIP: You will find it's particularly meaningful to them when they're obviously feeling low, but they're locked in silence and aren't expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, "I just want you to know how grateful I am that you're giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I've been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I'll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again." 
These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they're delivered at such a perfect moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components: 
A statement of gratitude. 
An expression of your love. 
An acknowledgment of your spouse's pain. 
An admission that you caused their pain. 
An expression of your sense of shame. 
A promise that it will never happen again 
Unfaithful spouses I've counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner's spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS? 
HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care for others. 
COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won't be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life. 
SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They begin exploring new involvements. 
PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future. 
LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy. 
FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they've been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always. 
Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Happiness, he has cried and begged a number of times but usually after a big fight. He says almost daily how he wants this to work and he realizes the pain he caused...I think... ok you are sorry you ran me over but should I lay down in the drive again? There is a part of me that thinks he is genuine.
> 
> 
> Sunsetmist, one of the largest hurdles I am having is that I accepted the gaslighting...that I was duped so badly. It was so bad I ignored texts like "That's a nice ass" anticipating his "story" that would wash it away for him...
> ...


Yeah, alcohol solves nothing and often makes things worse. I hear you from personal experience as to how I tried to handle life prior to quitting drinking at age 35. People think about alcohol being an issue only in its extreme form. But there are a lot of different ways that people use alcohol that are just as destructive but somehow those lesser ways are seen as socially acceptable.

I'm very impressed with your insights into your own behavior and life. Not everyone can look at these things and learn from them and say, Hey, this is MY part - and I'm going to do better. 

Especially now, staying really sober, literally, helps keep your self-esteem in tact and your thinking clear. God bless you. I feel you.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, I just didn't like how insistent she was...I have taken them once and it made me worse...made my lows really low...scary low.
> 
> What is your idea of a big hat? LOL


Listen, I get you. But here is the deal. Those were not the right meds for you. 

If you are dealing with depression, especially in a situation like this, you have to do something. 

There are so many more meds out there these days, and surely one of them will help you. Go to a good Doc that knows what has happened with meds in the past. 

The problem is, in a depressed state, you are not thinking clearly. You will miss clues and other things. 

If this is ever to work for you, whether he stops cheating or not, you have to bring your A game. 

I hope you understand this. 

I hate the one to tell you this, but the odds of the affair actually being over are almost zero. I know that is not what you want to here. But it is the truth. 

You see, it does not matter if she is a skank. She is a shank that will give him a BJ at a moments notice. She is a skank that will do anything anytime anywhere. 

Men like your husband, find that hard to give that up. Trust me, I know what I am talking about. 

I just want you to be clear headed so you can think and make the proper moves and protect yourself and your kids...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Sunsetmist, that was a great read and definitely describes me to a T, I wish I could get him to read it. Thank you so much for posting it.

Happiness I realize that my drinking only hurts me giving him more power...it took a minute but I am finally willing to walk thru this with out a crutch.

Blues...I do think that I may have to revisit my assessment of medication and I thank you for the advise. I do want to believe it is over otherwise he is simply a monster.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Since alcohol is a depressant - you may not feel down now that you've quit drinking.

Remind that therapist that there is a big difference between being depressed and being honest about how crappy your husband has been treating you.

Stay honest! He may not like hearing the truth!but he sure needs to hear it/hear what damage he alone has caused!

The main question you keep asking him is what is he doing every minute of every day to repair the damage HE caused!

If he's not willing to own how he participated then it's not worth spending time trying to repair anything. He should be putting in 200% effort! You should just be assessing how much effort he's giving you.

I can't imagine the marriage can heal when he still works with her... that's like asking for the impossible. Is he a boss? Capable of firing her? It should be considered if he has that power.

Don't place all of YOUR efforts into working on the M u tip he has given plenty of evidence that he's giving his 200%


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

In my opinion, if it is not in your best interest to divorce and he is willing to go to counseling; then that is working on the marriage and marriage counseling is the route to go and not individual counseling. Please rethink your stance regarding meds. It is part of moving forward to save the relationship. He gives in a little and you give in a little too with the med thingie.

He seems to have moments of clarity that are short lived though. That is where a good marriage counselor can really help your situation. It may take him some time, but remorse will come and he will not be able to dismiss it as easily anymore. This doesn't mean you do not do the 180 on him. You need to for your own sanity as he is still deep in the affair fog and is very dismissive of your pain and suffering caused by his selfishness.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I do want to believe it is over otherwise he is simply a monster.


When he looks upon himself as a monster, then he may correct his behavior and recognize that he owes you the truth, and not in "trickle" mode.

In the interim, looking upon him as a monster is the correct attitude which will protect you from further hurt.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> if it is not in your best interest to divorce
> do the 180 on him. You need to for your own sanity as he is still deep in the affair fog and is very dismissive of your pain and suffering caused by his selfishness.


When I had a similar predicament, I went to see an attorney, and found out that divorce was not in my best interest, nor was it in the best interest of my sons.
I proceeded with an emotional divorce.

180 is exactly the right idea for you at this point.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

If you are going to go to marriage counseling, I highly recommend that you find a counselor who specializes in a fair recovery and is familiar with marriage builders. I say this because most therapists are going to want to focus on communication and marital problems that may have led to the affair and how to move on from the affair and you should just forgive him blah blah blah. He needs to face what he has done had on and truly understand the gravity of his choices. A therapist that is going to dig into what you might have done wrong or encourage you to show him forgiveness is only going to feed into your husband's denial. He needs to hit rock bottom.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

First I would like to say how much I appreciate the responses and the wisdom y'all have shared. Today is the very first day in 2 and a half years that I feel more secure in my own thoughts and response to his behavior. I am truly grateful.


Beach...I know now me drinking has hurt me not helped me in anyway and I absolutely don't want to continue that self destructive behavior. I was quite shocked that the therapist refused to work with us due to my hesitation but I will absolutely seek out another and my husband wants to go so that is a plus. I showed him the article sunsetmist posted and he broke down and I did see a change in how he viewed what he had done. I am far from trusting it but it was positive. He is not the OW boss and him changing jobs now would be next to impossible with a daughter in college. I truly can't see how as much as I would want that.


Bibi...I am not sure how to take that 180 without continuing some of the fighting and I know my daughter can't handle it anymore. She knows 100 percent what happened.


TJW...I wrestle with the very question that a man I have loved 35 years could be so callous and cruel especially after the affair ended...I don't want to believe he is a monster so perhaps I am rug sweeping in a way. 


Personofinterest...I was taken aback that the therapist we did go to seemed to gloss over the affair...the reason we were actually there and did focus so much on medication which I will reconsider after hearing others agree that perhaps I should.


I am still very raw and confused on which way to go... proceed with a divorce or try and repair. My decision changes minute to minute...I thank you all for the advise, the comfort and the truth of what I am facing...I appreciate the support more than I could express.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Personofinterest...I was taken aback that the therapist we did go to seemed to gloss over the affair...the reason we were actually there and did focus so much on medication which I will reconsider after hearing others agree that perhaps I should.


This is unfortunately all too common in MC. Most MC's do you know how to deal with infidelity. 

They all drink the same cool aid, and read the same stupid book in collage. 

You have to find someone that understands how to deal with infidelity, and keep looking until you find one. 

They want to rug sweep the affair because the really don't know how to deal with it. They should be focusing on helping your H understand his betrayal, what made him do that, and holding him accountable. 

They should focus on your H doing what is necessary to help you heal from his betrayal. Helping him understand and empathize with your feeling. 

But rug sweeping helps no one. Once you have dealt with the above. Then you can start to deal with whatever the issues in the marriage are. 

All of this is hard work. 

FYI, at the very least his Sec has to move to another part of the company. This somehow has to happen...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Bibi, he says the affair is over and has been since the day it finally came out but he works with her so he does see her. I check his phone and email and I have seen no contact there. I also called her and her boyfriend numerous times, in fact a full year before the confession I spoke with her and she denied it and both convinced me I was being paranoid.
> 
> I knew the whole time something was up...at one point I deleted her contact info but her number came up under a mans name 2 days later. When I questioned him he said it was because I was being jealous and he didn't want to deal with it...he went so far as to say "If I saw her I would laugh at how ridiculous it was". I guess implying she was unattractive. He said over and over that there was something wrong with me...I made the mistake of drinking too much over this situation and he used that as leverage calling me drunk and ridiculous.


Wow, you really need to find a way to get out of this marriage. Number one, he didn't "make a mistake" with this affair... he made a conscious CHOICE to lie to you for at least two years while he CHOSE to place with other woman above you. Number two, you are being abused by this man... gaslighting is an abusive behavior and him telling you there is something wrong with you and insulting you this way is gaslighting. Add the fact that he continues in the same job even though the other woman works there... he has ZERO remorse, and you cannot stay in a marriage with a remorseless cheater. This is not the man you fell in love with, you need to face the fact that that man is gone, and very likely never really existed.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...the entire reason I went to therapy was to talk, to have someone listen to us both and correct misconceptions and guide us in a more positive way to communicate. 


The OW isn't his secretary she is a woman who works in another department and he said he only sees her when she enters or leaves the building. He of course states how he hates her now but I am getting the feeling that is just par for the course.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3x...everything you said is true and I have tried to explain to him how the gaslighting was by far the worst part of it all. I do think he may finally see that, perhaps I am deluding myself because of the sheer length of our relationship.

He is in his late 50's and changing jobs would be financially impossible as we are trying to put our daughter thru college without her taking loans...she has less than a year left and maybe we can relook at that when she is done. It sickens me that he sees her and fortunately her boyfriend is aware of the affair, I assume he monitors her phone and emails like I do his.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...the entire reason I went to therapy was to talk, to have someone listen to us both and correct misconceptions and guide us in a more positive way to communicate.
> 
> 
> *The OW isn't his secretary she is a woman who works in another department and he said he only sees her when she enters or leaves the building. He of course states how he hates her now but I am getting the feeling that is just par for the course.*


*
*


How devastating that you cannot and likely never will trust him--never really feel the same about him. Have there been other affairs-- even EA's? You will never really know. You are putting your daughter above all. Let husband take out loans and repay them as consequences for his behavior. He doesn't hate the OW, just the current inconvenience in his life.

Cheating is a deal-breaker for me, but i am not you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sunsetmist...for some reason the cheating almost seems secondary to the emotional and mental abuse right now...he made me question my sanity, I thought at times I had early onset dementia...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> .
> 
> 
> *Bibi...I am not sure how to take that 180 without continuing some of the fighting and I know my daughter can't handle it anymore. She knows 100 percent what happened.
> ...


So she knows her dad is a cheating piece of crap huh. Then you NEED to be a strong example for her. If SHE were the one married to a man who cheated on her for two years and was behaving like your husband is, would you want HER to stay with that man?? NONE of us would want that for our daughters! And I have a strong suspicion that she doesn't want that for you either. Show her a strong woman. Show her so that if she is ever faced with this situation, she has that example of her mom's strength to look back on and gain her own strength from. 

He isn't sorry. He is sorry he got caught.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3x...yes she knows and yes I would bury the body if her fiancé did this to her and we had that exact conversation this weekend. Almost word for word...she loves her father and believes he is sincere when he says he loves me and wants to stay married. We also spoke about the length of the affair, as she said he made a mistake, which I explained a mistake is a one time thing not 2 years. She fully understands and will support any decision we make...she just wants closure, some peace and calm not unlike anyone would.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...the entire reason I went to therapy was to talk, to have someone listen to us both and correct misconceptions and guide us in a more positive way to communicate.
> 
> The OW isn't his secretary she is a woman who works in another department and he said he only sees her when she enters or leaves the building. He of course states how he hates her now but I am getting the feeling that is just par for the course.


Well that does sound better than her being his secretary. 

The thing about therapy and infidelity is this: There is a right way and a wrong way to handle it. Rug sweeping is obviously the wrong way. 

But even if your are not RS... There are things that have to be dealt with and they are hard. The therapist has to know how to guide that discussion.

They have to know that you have questions that you HAVE to ask multiple times, that you have to get TRUTHFUL answers. 

He has to understand what he has truly done. How much he has hurt you. It takes a while for that to happen to most WS's. 

Remorse, true remorse, is when he feels SOME of the actual pain that you feel. He can never feel the full amount, but when he starts to feel a portion of what you have been going through, if he does, then he will begin to understand what he has done. 

I assume you have read "How to help your spouse heal from your affair"? If not, you should, and he should memorize it...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues, I have read and given my husband Understanding your betrayed spouse...he read it last night and talked about it this morning. I do think he is finally starting to see the sheer devastation he has caused to me, our marriage and our family. He gave me some answers or shall I say the nod to things I already knew, but he answered truthfully and I saw a glimpse of "horror" on his face if that does not sound overly dramatic. It was a look I wanted to see months ago but I am not sure in the long run if it will make a difference...


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> He of course states how he hates her now but I am getting the feeling that is just par for the course.


That's from the next page of the Cheater's Handbook. Another "blame-shift"....see, I'm a _victim_ of this morally-bankrupt, unscrupulous woman who was just waiting to destroy our marriage.....



Torninhalf said:


> It was a look I wanted to see months ago but I am not sure in the long run if it will make a difference...


Until statements like the above are completely gone from his rhetoric, and he blames no one but himself, it won't.....


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, I have read and given my husband Understanding your betrayed spouse...he read it last night and talked about it this morning. I do think he is finally starting to see the sheer devastation he has caused to me, our marriage and our family. He gave me some answers or shall I say the nod to things I already knew, but he answered truthfully and I saw a glimpse of "horror" on his face if that does not sound overly dramatic. It was a look I wanted to see months ago but I am not sure in the long run if it will make a difference...


Good. 

Maybe he is starting to understand, and maybe it won't work out. You are in the drives seat with that. 

But, when he really gets is, if he loves you, it will be more than a look of horror. 

You will know it when you see it. It will scare you a little if he actually gets is. When he gets it, for real, you will really see him in pain. 

If that happens, feel free to NOT comfort him and let him wallow in what you have been feeling for months...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow, you really need to find a way to get out of this marriage. Number one, he didn't "make a mistake" with this affair... he made a conscious CHOICE to lie to you for at least two years while he CHOSE to place with other woman above you. Number two, you are being abused by this man... gaslighting is an abusive behavior and him telling you there is something wrong with you and insulting you this way is gaslighting. Add the fact that he continues in the same job even though the other woman works there... he has ZERO remorse, and you cannot stay in a marriage with a remorseless cheater. This is not the man you fell in love with, you need to face the fact that that man is gone, and very likely never really existed.


This is very true.

He needs to get a clear idea that you will leave him - in order for him to have a clear wake up call. Maybe then he will realize it is HIS responsibility to fix this due to HIS actions!

And you need to be setting an example for your daughter that this is completely unacceptable in any marriage and it has consequences! 

You need to step back and place the problem squarely in HIS lap! That way he has no one else to blame it on! He hates the OW? That's because he isn't owning how he participated! HE did this! It's HIS to own up to!

And if his feelings for her are THAT strong - he is still pining for her. - which isn't a good sign!


Stay neutral... Act complacent... create distance - and make him think your not staying married to him - that way maybe HE will start changing enough to show remorse - and begin to repair the damage HE caused!

Explain to your daughter that you are a strong woman who deserves to be treated better than what he's done to you.

Show her by example too!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you happiness...I think after the affair came out I could have moved forward but he continued to lie day after day. He promised he would never lie again yet the truth came out in dribs and drabs as I discovered new things. He said I was "looking for things" instead of simply putting it behind me. Damn straight I went looking it was a 2 year affair!!! Was it wrong of me to try and reconstruct what was actually happening?
> 
> He did say yesterday that he will no longer talk about the affair period that the only truth I needed to know was that he loved me.


I am so sorry you are here but from what you have said here it would appear that your POS WH is more concerned about his own discomfort at your digging ( and you should) than your pain which tells me he is not remorseful at all. You have to expose him to your kids, his family, your family, friends, all, he has to know the damage he has done. I cannot see your marriage coming back from this, the level of betrayal is too deep and his steadfast unwillingness to come entirely clean and cover his ass, tells you that he is not concerned with the hurt he has caused you. That is not love I am afraid.

1. expose him and her completely and utterly, let his grapple with the shame, this is not your shame
2. go see a lawyer and give him the papers
3. YOu will be entitled to some finances support after 30 years. He says he loves you cause he doesn't want to lose his assets, do not believe a word that comes from this mans mouth, actions will always speak louder than words
4. It is not wrong of you to dig up the truth, if that is what you need, he gas lit you all the way through.
5. Get yourself some therapy or counselling.
6. Ask him to move out, kick him out of the master bedroom, he has no right to be in there
7/ Do a 180 on him and learn to live without him in your life, no engagement with him
8. Start doing things for yourself, go on holidays alone, spend time with girlfriends, church, etc.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW...he absolutely made it seem as though he got caught up in a spiders web...it was quite pathetic but I told him no one accidentally falls into a vagina. He doesn't play that crap anymore.

Blues...he seems to want a definitive answer, I still don't know what I want. 


Beach...I totally understand what you are saying about my daughter and probably my biggest fear right now. She seems to think from our conversations that he deserves a chance. I know I can't make my decision based on her opinion with so little life experience. 


aine...He absolutely was more concerned with covering his ass and I just don't get it. I won't out him more than I have but I have asked him to come clean with someone who he denied it to when I contacted them. He said he would and he would have that person contact me...I feel maybe enough people know now.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...he seems to want a definitive answer, I still don't know what I want.


Your response needs to be, "I have not decided, it depends on your and your behavior. If you have a problem with that then GTFO, today. Otherwise, do what you need to do." 

That may sound harsh, but it is not, you are in the drivers seat...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...I have told him I don't know what I want and unfortunately the last few months we have both left the house for a couple of days each numerous times. The back and forth is mind numbing and very stressful on my daughter. I need to end that for good. I guess it feels odd to be in the power position after watching his affair for 2 years...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...I have told him I don't know what I want and unfortunately the last few months we have both left the house for a couple of days each numerous times. The back and forth is mind numbing and very stressful on my daughter. I need to end that for good. I guess it feels odd to be in the power position after watching his affair for 2 years...


Valid feelings, nothing wrong with them at all. 

However, if you are to move forward, and lets say that he is through cheating, then you MUST be strong and lay down the law. 

Now, based on your posts, that may not be where you are used to coming from. However, you have not choice. 

If you want to save your marriage, you cannot shirk you leadership position here. And even while you are trying to figure out what you want, You still have to lead and be strong. 

Because, it is time for you to claim your life, for you. You have to make the decisions that will make you happy in the long run. 

Further, you will have to keep doing that. While this may not be natural for you, you really have no choice. 

So put on your big girl panties and take charge. If he cannot handle it, then he needs to GTFO while you file for divorce and end the marriage. 

I understand that this is hard, I get it. 

Does not change the situation. It does not change what you have to do...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...the fact that I am so torn is perplexing because most days I want to rip his throat out but I will absolutely heed your advise.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...the fact that I am so torn is perplexing because most days I want to rip his throat out but I will absolutely heed your advise.


Yeah, I get it... Probably don't want to rip his throat out... Just saying...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Until he does nothing but be concerned about YOUR well being and YOUR happiness - you have nothing you need to talk to him about.


Step back... be concerned with you and your daughter! Start planning many things alone and with daughter and just leave him out of all of it... u too he gives SOLID proof he's not the same man that cheated on you!

You owe him no explanations what you're doing/where you're going.

Get busy living! Do that instead of worrying about poor old him!

Make him realize what life will be like when you find out there's a whole world out there beyond poor old him!

Start now!

Remember the one who cares the least has the most power. You need to shift the power advantage to yourself!


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> sunsetmist...for some reason the cheating almost seems secondary to the emotional and mental abuse right now...he made me question my sanity, I thought at times I had early onset dementia...


 @Torninhalf, what you said here is very accurate for many BSes. While cheating is willful, gaslighting, or trying to convince a person they are crazy is just plain evil IMO. 

Even many years after the fact, if I allow myself to dwell on the times my husband gaslit me, and the words he said when doing it, I can work myself to tears, so I try not to think about those things. It is very hurtful to know that someone who promised to have your back tried to use your own brain against you.

Two years is a long time to have an affair and expect the betrayed spouse to forgive it. I don't think I could...add to that all the gaslighting.

Regarding the meds. Are you able to function throughout the day? If you just cry when you are sad, then you may not need them. Like another poster said, crying when sad is actually a good thing. Crying all the time, or being numb all the time is not.

If you are not able to do normal things, are sad all the time, or contemplate suicide then you definitely need meds. That doesn't mean you will be on them permanently. 

What about sleep. If you can't sleep a full night, then you should ask for a sleep aid. If you don't sleep enough your thought processes can be affected, plus your body needs sleep to heal itself.

You don't need to make all your decisions today. And you are allowed to change your mind from day to day for a while. You will eventually know what you really want. Just be true to yourself, and don't play games.

Are you able to stay off the alcohol consistently? That would be a good thing for the time being, so you can think clearly and not go off on him while drunk.

You will know your husband really gets it when he is consistently humble and contrite any time you have to talk about the adultery. He must be 100% transparent and answer any question you ask. He can't hide anything with the excuse of "he is trying to protect you from being hurt.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hey y'all I thought I would bring you an update.


The last few days have been absolutely crazy...4 marathon conversations...crying, yelling, begging and yes...more rug sweeping and lies. While my husband did give me plausible answers to softball questions he still rug swept and lied on the hard ones. I got a lot of "I don't remembers" and even more "I don't know". He tried very hard to not get defensive and is still confused as to why I need to know some of the things I ask. I told him it was not his concern why he was just to answer. Anyhoo...he still gave bogus answers as to the frequency of his physical activity...like I would believe 10 times in 2 years...I mean really? I didn't yell the last conversation I just knew my attempts to get him into the light were futile.


So my first priority is a job...either of us moving out would be a huge financial hit until that happens, so I figure 6 months...I can surely live with him another 180 days being I have lived with him 30 years. LOL

I won't be asking more questions because I know he will lie. I will act as if I am trying to R and get all my ducks in a row. I need to find out about alimony and a pension he collects which I believe will be half mine. I hit the gym this morning for the first time in a few months which felt good so that is priority...any more advise would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks for listening.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> TJW...he absolutely made it seem as though he got caught up in a spiders web...it was quite pathetic but I told him no one accidentally falls into a vagina. He doesn't play that crap anymore.
> 
> Blues...he seems to want a definitive answer, I still don't know what I want.
> 
> ...



I am sorry Torninhalf, he is not remorseful at all. he is still more worried about himself, his image, etc not about the devastation he has wrought on you. The fact he let you think that you were going crazy, I think you had a form of PTSD shows you exactly the amount of love and respect he has for you. I am sorry to say but it is zero. You cannot go back to this man, you deserve so much more.
I know your daughter may want you to give him a second chance but he is her father after all, it is not a decision she should be making or influencing. 
What are your friends saying? I think you should divorce him, if he really wants you in his life he can work to earn you back, but he needs to lose you before he hits rock bottom If he is not concerned with winning you back then you have your answer, why hold onto someone who doesn't want to be in your life.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Just saw your post for today, I am sorry that your POS WH chose to continue to cover his ass and now he has really shown you who he is. Let him be.
Do the 180 on him, no talking, begging, talking about the future, etc. Ask him to move to spare room, just tell him you need time. 
Go and look for the job
See the lawyer, get copies of all financials when he is at work, photocopy all and keep in a safe place
For now do not tell your daughter anything, it might put her in a difficult position
do not engage in any activities with your H, attend events with him etc, show him you are moving on without him, disengage
Confide in your sibling or close friend
Start doing activities that make you feel good about yourself, you can do this. YOu are worth so much more than being treated like this.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Kids:

They aren't the ones having to eat the **** sandwich you got served are they.

Kids are selfish. They don't want their world disrupted or changed even if its at your expense.

They grow up and go their own way at some point and where does that leave you then?

You want to be a martyr for your children? Go ahead. Knock yourself out but don't expect them to appreciate it much or respect you for it after.

If you are smart you take care of yourself first. 

There is no magic fix. Get strong and control your life.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

aine, I can't say he doesn't show remorse because I can see it but he just won't admit to the things he doesn't want to admit to himself. We both know, as any human with a brain cell knows, people who sext, send naked pictures and masturbation videos to each other don't just have make out sessions with heavy grouping when they get together...I think because the affair took place in cars he thinks that is easier to believe. I just decided I can't beg for the truth anymore and I do think he can't face the shame. 


There are so many separate issues within the one... even if I unravel frequency and what was done sexually I battle with the length of time, the fact that this was a work affair yet he brought it home by using words with friends to communicate daily...every day in my house...in my face. He also never ended it...don't even believe he tried...he said he did but she pursued it...always being pulled back by another picture or chat. It only ended the day he couldn't lie anymore. 


Marc...you are spot on and my daughter will be 21 in March so she will simply have to deal in her own way.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Hey y'all I thought I would bring you an update.
> 
> 
> The last few days have been absolutely crazy...4 marathon conversations...crying, yelling, begging and yes...more rug sweeping and lies. While my husband did give me plausible answers to softball questions he still rug swept and lied on the hard ones. I got a lot of "I don't remembers" and even more "I don't know". He tried very hard to not get defensive and is still confused as to why I need to know some of the things I ask. I told him it was not his concern why he was just to answer. Anyhoo...he still gave bogus answers as to the frequency of his physical activity...like I would believe 10 times in 2 years...I mean really? I didn't yell the last conversation I just knew my attempts to get him into the light were futile.
> ...


Your strategy is excellent. Talk to a lawyer about the financial information you are wondering about. S/he will figure that out for you. Will probably request copies of your financial records. You are going to need to be extremely discreet and cover your tracks. Think about how to do that and be careful - extremely careful. It's easy to get sloppy and leave your phone laying around or trails of what you are doing. Tables have turned. You can do stealth better than he did.

You are right to focus on you instead of focusing on his unending details of deceipt. Assume it's all lies at this point and put your plan in motion. Stay calm, stay focused on your mission. It no longer matters what he has done. It's over and you just need to patiently do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Do NOT discuss your plan with anyone, including your daughter. If you truly want to pull this off, you don't need anyone accidentally leaking out your plan. So, the fewer people who know, the better - and ONLY YOU is the fewest people possible. It's like poking a hole in the balloon every time you share anything with anyone else...all the air will go out of your plan when someone else talks about it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

happiness...thank you. I had to be an investigator each and every step of the way, uncovering the lies one at a time and I am exhausted. It is like being a trial lawyer...he couldn't remember when the affair started...not the month or the time of year...I was asking...was it cold outside? Hot outside? Did you wear a jacket when walking to the car (where they fooled around) I got so angry I was like jeez dude did she have to take a coat off before you could grab her tits? Sadly this is probably because the affair went on so long. You are correct none of that matters anymore. 


I handle all the bills and finances so he won't even notice what I am doing...the hard part will be pretending we are moving forward...I need to put on a really good game face. Avoiding sex will be interesting...lol.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

HELP!!! Went to bed last night fairly calm...woke up this morning enraged again!!! When does this end? Why do I still want the truth? Not his watered down version? Any advise would help...desperate again.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> HELP!!! Went to bed last night fairly calm...woke up this morning enraged again!!! When does this end? Why do I still want the truth? Not his watered down version? Any advise would help...desperate again.


Listen, this is completely and totally normal, so don't freak out. You never know why it happens, usually, it could have been anything. Could have been a dream you don't remember but feel, could have been some of the conversations you guys have been having, could have been a lot of things. 

But try to just relax if you can, but you have to let yourself "feel" your feelings. 

This is the roller coaster, it happens to everyone. 

Since you are getting yourself together to leave, don't talk to your husband about it though. He will just continue to lie, and that will piss you off more...

I will say that some of it would be better possibly if your H was not an ass hat and just told the truth. 

Part of him does not want to face what he did, part if it is that he does not want to hurt you anymore and he thinks that filtering the truth will hurt your less. 

But he does not get any of it....

Just breathe, get out of the house, do whatever, and breathe...


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## jsb (Sep 11, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> HELP!!! Went to bed last night fairly calm...woke up this morning enraged again!!! When does this end? Why do I still want the truth? Not his watered down version? Any advise would help...desperate again.


 I was just like you OP until finally anxiety, anger and the sleepless nights caused me to be physically ill. I don’t think you will ever learn the whole truth and at some point you have to be kind to yourself and let it go. Think of it this way, all the doubting, snooping and interrogation will only make you feel worse. You’ve suffered enough. Time to be kind to yourself. Have you tried IC? It may help. Focus your energy on finding a job. You will feel much more empowered once you earn an income.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> HELP!!! Went to bed last night fairly calm...woke up this morning enraged again!!! When does this end? Why do I still want the truth? Not his watered down version? Any advise would help...desperate again.


This is something that persists for awhile. 

Remember, you are in control of your thoughts - you literally can choose to think "this" or "that" so when you have a negative thought, your mind can only hold one thought at a time. Therefore you can push out a negative thought with a positive one

...sometimes you may need help to calm your mind and stay focused. Even if you are not a religious person, it doesn't matter. "Ask and you shall receive" - ask the God of your understanding for help and peace through these difficult moments and you will be amazed at what you receive. I have seen it happen time and again, often to the utter shock of the person who tried it. 

I once counseled a friend who was totally broke and didn't know how she was going to pay her rent or buy food to put her faith in front of her and pray for a solution. The next day she received a check in the mail that she was not expecting. She was dumbfounded at how the simple act of faith was so quickly answered. Frankly, what happened gave me goosebumps. When she called to tell me and after I hung up the phone, I was deeply humbled.

I am not suggesting that you go against any of your beliefs but I am saying that there is help in the practice of believing in a greater power. 

Please know that there are others (including myself) who have gone through this kind of troubled times. Tap every resource of help, even if that means putting faith in a greater power. It only takes the faith the size of a mustard seed - I strongly encourage you to shore yourself up with this faith and know that you have friends who believe in your ability to rise above everything. 

Anger clouds your judgement and ability to think clearly. It is your enemy. And you have enough on your plate without allowing anger to overwhelm you. Replace those angry thoughts with hope and faith in a future that is opening up better things for you. You will be guided. Have faith in that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

What a crazy day yesterday turned out to be!! Turns out I can't fake being ok for sh*t!! Bottom line is I booted his ass out after another horrific fight where he continued to cling to his lies. This morning he came by to get his uniforms for work and he was angry...he said why can't I accept that he was in a bad place during and after the affair...that he was depressed and not thinking clearly...he wants me and only me...he wants me to forgive him and move past it. He said again he never had any feelings for the OW and it was a big mistake...How I hate that word!!! A 2 year mistake? He packed his belongings and said let me know if you think I am worthy of another chance...WTF?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Update...another text message from him saying that if I believe he wants this marriage to work just because he is no longer having the affair we have nothing left to talk about. That he never cared for her. This came because I made the mistake of telling him I feel like he wants me now because he could no longer continue the affair...that he wants to now try by default. What do I say to that?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> What a crazy day yesterday turned out to be!! Turns out I can't fake being ok for sh*t!! Bottom line is I booted his ass out after another horrific fight where he continued to cling to his lies. This morning he came by to get his uniforms for work and he was angry...he said why can't I accept that he was in a bad place during and after the affair...that he was depressed and not thinking clearly...he wants me and only me...he wants me to forgive him and move past it. He said again he never had any feelings for the OW and it was a big mistake...How I hate that word!!! A 2 year mistake? He packed his belongings and said let me know if you think I am worthy of another chance...WTF?


Torninhalf, your husband doesn't have the liberty to be angry about any of the fallout of his affair. What he did was calculated, deceptive, selfish, shortsighted and mean. 
1. Calculated. Planning the best times to be worth PW.
2. All the lying to keep it going, to cover up any signs he left to be discovered, pretending he was a devoted husband, pretending he was a devoted father, all the while knowing he was lying to everyone. 
3. Selfish. He knew your and your children's lives would be shaken if you found out what he was doing. Yet he put his affair above all else. 
4. Shortsighted. If he loved you and valued his marriage as much add he says her does, why would he do something that, guaranteed, would put all that in jeopardy?
5. Mean. Gaslighting is mean. Getting his girlfriend to help convince you that you are crazy is horribly cruel. They spoke ill of you together whenever you guessed right and they would tag team to throw you off their trail.

You have every right to be angry. You were convinced of and lived a lie for 2 years! Just because he claims it is over doesn't make your pain and disbelief go away. 

Definitely stay away from any marriage counselor who wants to blame the marriage or you for his choice to cheat. I'm sure you weren't 100% happy with your husband and your marriage all the time, yet you managed to stay faithful. He needs individual counseling and so do you. Joint MC should only be focused at this time on getting your husband to accept all the ways he hurt you and your marriage.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

When someone (anyone) is angry and acting out - the best response is NO response.

You are not required to respond to any of his temper tantrums.

You had a big fight? Why? Do NOT engage...at all!

He won't be capable of arguing with you if you simply don't respond. You'll be in a better place for it.

He can argue with himself. And when he does - take your keys and leave for a long while.

Do not participate! That's a boundary YOU use for self preservation.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

It's great for you that he left. Now he can stay gone while you file for divorce.

I'm saying this based on your posts. You guys are heavily fighting and you need to stay safe away from him. He's unrepentant and gas lighting you still. 

See a lawyer NOW and let your H communicate through the lawyer. Change the locks on the house. Stop communicating with your H. Now.

I don't say this lightly. I have read everything you've written and my advice is based on an outside POV and personal experience. You will gain nothing by ever letting him back in the house again - or your life. Cut ties. Make a clean break. Let the lawyer deal with him. 

Based on what your husband has done, you will likely get awarded attorney fees and everything you are entitled to - in addition to your H paying the bills while you are separated. Do this not only for yourself but your daughter.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Update...another text message from him saying that if I believe he wants this marriage to work just because he is no longer having the affair we have nothing left to talk about. That he never cared for her. This came because I made the mistake of telling him I feel like he wants me now because he could no longer continue the affair...that he wants to now try by default. What do I say to that?


Stop responding to him NOW. Get a lawyer. Change the locks on the house.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Thank you all for responding...I feel so desperate, so alone and so stupid. What is wrong with me that I even think I should talk to him?! He keeps saying we have been together 35 years (I was 17 when we met) and how can I let 2 years define us...that he was lost and confused...that he always loved me he was just in a fog...isn't he worthy of a second chance...he got irate when I said he only wants me now that he can't continue his affair saying I was always his priority. 

I feel physically ill, worse than I did when I first found out...My last text to him was he could contact me if he wanted to start being truthful about how he treated me the last 2 years...when he acknowledged that I was his plan b. I am tired of explaining how I feel when all I get is you are wrong...I love you now and I loved you since the day I met you...

How do I go dark and ignore him?

He said when he left he will come by daily to see the dogs but I don't want his ass here...can I stop him?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you all for responding...I feel so desperate, so alone and so stupid. What is wrong with me that I even think I should talk to him?! He keeps saying we have been together 35 years (I was 17 when we met) and how can I let 2 years define us...that he was lost and confused...that he always loved me he was just in a fog...isn't he worthy of a second chance...he got irate when I said he only wants me now that he can't continue his affair saying I was always his priority.
> 
> I feel physically ill, worse than I did when I first found out...My last text to him was he could contact me if he wanted to start being truthful about how he treated me the last 2 years...when he acknowledged that I was his plan b. I am tired of explaining how I feel when all I get is you are wrong...I love you now and I loved you since the day I met you...
> 
> ...


Intellectually, you know that he is lying. Maybe you still cannot turn off the love. 

And until recently, let's be honest... If he actually was real, actually remorseful, actually willing to do whatever he had to do, you would have taken him back. 

But he has some type of denial going on that I really cannot fathom, but whatever it is, it makes him an unsafe partner for you or any other women that he gets with. 

Maybe he changed, or whatever, but for whatever reason he does not get it, and frankly I don't think he ever will...


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Update...another text message from him saying that if I believe he wants this marriage to work just because he is no longer having the affair we have nothing left to talk about. That he never cared for her. This came because I made the mistake of telling him I feel like he wants me now because he could no longer continue the affair...that he wants to now try by default. What do I say to that?


Tell him, "So be it." He is declaring your marriage is over because you don't trust his intentions?? He is grasping for control. Let him have all the control he wants....to put the nails in the coffin himself by his own behavior.

If he were truly remorseful, he would tell you, "I know you believe I want to stay in the marriage for the wrong reasons. I don't blame you for thinking that. I have caused you to lose faith in my sincerity. Please give me a chance to prove differently. I don't deserve to stay married to you, I know. Even if you divorce me, I will never stop loving you. If you want a divorce, I will give you everything you need and I won't contest anything. I'm sorry I caused this. Even if we divorce I'm going to go to IC so I can fix myself and become a better man."

That is what my husband said to me, and he "only" had a 2 week EA. Your husband has A LOT less to work with, given his betrayal lasted for 2 years.

Don't let him manipulate you. Keep posting here. We'll help you keep your perspective and confidence that you are not crazy or wrong for not rolling over or laying in front of his truck so he can run over you again.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

happiness27 said:


> Stop responding to him NOW. Get a lawyer. Change the locks on the house.


DO NOT change the locks on the house unless your attorney says you can. He still has a legal right to enter the home, unless he has been abusive and the police have told him to stay away, or you have a restraining order on him.

You could put yourself in a bad spot legally if you change the locks on his (shared with you) home.

Simply ask him to not come without asking first, and hope he complies out of respect or to win you back.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you all for responding...I feel so desperate, so alone and so stupid. What is wrong with me that I even think I should talk to him?! He keeps saying we have been together 35 years (I was 17 when we met) and how can I let 2 years define us
> 
> When you married did you make vows to be faithful or to forsake all others? If you did, then he has to realize that he broke those vows. They do not exist anymore. Your marriage does not exist as it was anymore. He shat on your marriage. You didn't do that. He gets to own that all by himself....that he was lost and confused...that he always loved me he was just in a fog...isn't he worthy of a second chance...he got irate when I said he only wants me now that he can't continue his affair saying I was always his priority.
> No, he is not worthy of anything. He became unworthy when he chose to cheat, for 700+ days, and 700+ times. Two years is not one "unit" easily to be forgotten. It consists of 1,000s of deceptions, large and small.
> ...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

*>*

To all, he says he loves me and will never forgive himself for what he did...he talks about working more hours off duty so he can get extra income...he begs for me to forgive but he can't seem to grasp how he beat me to a pulp. We had a fight a year before he ended the affair when I asked him to stop texting her and he said no...he said he didn't think I really knew...that he had convinced me otherwise. That night was so horrific and he still doesn't get it. He seems to get all "I am a POS you should move on" "I am a scumbag"" knowing I will defend him because other than this he is really a good guy. He is more back and forth than I am. He said tonight that he always felt loved by me until I said I hope the memories of her ***** keep you warm at night because you will never feel my body again. He said if I made you feel the way I do now what I did is clearly beyond forgiveness. 35 years...my entire life gone because some skank flashed her goods.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

*Re: >*



Torninhalf said:


> To all, he says he loves me and will never forgive himself for what he did...he talks about working more hours off duty so he can get extra income...he begs for me to forgive but he can't seem to grasp how he beat me to a pulp. We had a fight a year before he ended the affair when I asked him to stop texting her and he said no...he said he didn't think I really knew...that he had convinced me otherwise. That night was so horrific and he still doesn't get it. He seems to get all "I am a POS you should move on" "I am a scumbag"" knowing I will defend him because other than this he is really a good guy. He is more back and forth than I am. He said tonight that he always felt loved by me until I said I hope the memories of her ***** keep you warm at night because you will never feel my body again. He said if I made you feel the way I do now what I did is clearly beyond forgiveness. 35 years...my entire life gone because some skank flashed her goods.


Are you still with him?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

*Re: >*



Torninhalf said:


> To all, he says he loves me and will never forgive himself for what he did...he talks about working more hours off duty so he can get extra income...he begs for me to forgive but he can't seem to grasp how he beat me to a pulp. We had a fight a year before he ended the affair when I asked him to stop texting her and he said no...he said he didn't think I really knew...that he had convinced me otherwise. That night was so horrific and he still doesn't get it. He seems to get all "I am a POS you should move on" "I am a scumbag"" knowing I will defend him because other than this he is really a good guy. He is more back and forth than I am. He said tonight that he always felt loved by me until I said I hope the memories of her ***** keep you warm at night because you will never feel my body again. He said if I made you feel the way I do now what I did is clearly beyond forgiveness. 35 years...my entire life gone because some skank flashed her goods.


You know - he is NOT a good guy!

STOP defending HIM! Just stop it!

A good guy wouldn't cheat! A good guy wouldn't have his wife feeling as you feel!

Stop it. He has absolutely NO reason to do a thing when he plays these games with you!

He plays the "poor me" and you run to tell him how great he is? Why?

YOU are making it SO easy to be a complete jerk to you!

Don't have any conversations with him.

He's not sorry he cheated.hes not sorry he did thisto you.

He's only sorry he got caught.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to STOP talking to him. His intention is to keep at you until he wears you down and you let him back in just to get yourself some peace. DONT. Do NOT allow that to happen. Your H will be back in another affair (maybe even the same one) within probably two years, maybe less, because he just is NOT remorseful. You are well aware that he didnt "make a mistake", he purposely betrayed you every single day for at least two years. That isnt a mistake, that is choosing a life. Now you get to choose yours, and you are choosing to remove him from it... this is HIS OWN doing, by both his betrayal and lies, and his lack of care about fixing it. 

Stay strong, STOP talking to him.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

happiness...he left permanently yesterday.

Beach...I am so conflicted...this is a man I have known for 35 years...he would take his shirt off for a stranger on the street so my brain and my heart is screaming how and why!! 

3X...I know you are right...he keeps saying that he thinks he deserves a second chance given our history...that we have a 30 year old son, how can I toss all that aside?


I have been reading this site for 2 days straight and see where other people pack it in over a one night stand and I want to shoot myself even thinking maybe we can work it out after a 2 year affair. I guess I am scared...I am 51 who will want a 51 year old woman?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It doesn't matter how long...when he's treating you like crap!

Let him go treat someone else like crap - not you!

He's not the man you THOUGHT he was - you don't even know him at this point!

An affair can turn any decent person into a complete monster - like a drug user - they become a different human being = self, self centered lairs who will do anything not to provide the truth/ what's real!

Good - he's gone!

Keep him far away from YOU! Let all calls and texts go/or block him!

You don't need anyone abusing you - and that's exactly what he's been doing to you - because you ALLOWED IT when you kept communicating with him... hoping he wasn't "that guy" - but he IS that guy.

No more!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> happiness...he left permanently yesterday.
> 
> Beach...I am so conflicted...this is a man I have known for 35 years...he would take his shirt off for a stranger on the street so my brain and my heart is screaming how and why!!
> 
> ...


All of this, is fear talking. Listen, my GF is 60 YO. Beautiful as I am sure you are. I know you don't realize it, but when you get there, you are going to be a hot commodity. 

And really, you just need to trust me about that. 

As for the rest, he has had his 2nd, third, and forth chances... He just does not get it. 

Honestly, I am not convinced that he is still not in the affair. Just the way that he is acting. Tell you something else, he will take up with his OW very soon. 

Everything he is saying to you is complete and total BS. You have to realize that. 

You stay the course, tamp down the fear, in a few months, you life is going to be so great...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Beach and Blues...thank you so much for responding...I am a mess...I haven't eaten since Saturday...I had no idea that tears were unlimited. I know that I have to go completely dark but 35 years, who do I talk to? I am alone here...we moved 5 years ago so I could take care of my foster father who died last year...I am now completely alone other than my kids and my son who has his own issues including cronic lying as well. He moved here and I gave him my car only to find out 2 years later his license was suspended and he drove it under my insurance...2 days after I found out I lost all vision in my left eye and called an ambulance thinking I was stroking out...stress induced apparently. I would have been happy to die right there but I knew my daughter was coming home and I didn't want her to find me dead in the kitchen. I am not at all atypical old frumpy housewife as I was a runner of 35 miles a week and fortunately other than the dark circles under my eyes I still with the help of Mabelline and growing up in the 80's know how to apply makeup...lol. How pathetic have I become?!!! I am a mess!!!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Beach and Blues...thank you so much for responding...I am a mess...I haven't eaten since Saturday...I had no idea that tears were unlimited. I know that I have to go completely dark but 35 years, who do I talk to? I am alone here...we moved 5 years ago so I could take care of my foster father who died last year...I am now completely alone other than my kids and my son who has his own issues including cronic lying as well. He moved here and I gave him my car only to find out 2 years later his license was suspended and he drove it under my insurance...2 days after I found out I lost all vision in my left eye and called an ambulance thinking I was stroking out...stress induced apparently. I would have been happy to die right there but I knew my daughter was coming home and I didn't want her to find me dead in the kitchen. I am not at all atypical old frumpy housewife as I was a runner of 35 miles a week and fortunately other than the dark circles under my eyes I still with the help of Mabelline and growing up in the 80's know how to apply makeup...lol. How pathetic have I become?!!! I am a mess!!!


Listen, I am going to get tough here, but you need to listen. 

I felt like you are feeling WHEN I was married to my ex for 26 years. Suffice to say, she had issues (drugs essentially) , and yes I loved her, my fault...

I actually raised 3 kids, alone for the most part. I was the sole bread winner, chief cook and bottle washer, fixer of everything, and on and on. Oh, and on top of it, I took care of my, "Sick" wife. 

I did all of this until I had a stroke, then I finally had some clarity. With that clarity I finally put 2 and 2 together and realized that my Ex was and had been for maybe 20 years, an drug addict. 

Then I came to realize that on top of everything else that she put me through, she never really loved me. Now that was a hard pill to swallow. I cried not only because I was sad, but I realized I had been a fool, all of that time. 

Lots of us understand what you are going through, we get it, it hurts. 

Your H is a proven liar, and he is so stupid that he does not realize that his continued lying, is actually what killed his marriage "that he still wants". 

Talk to someone, anyone. Your feelings are normal. You have to get through them. 

Do you really want to be with a man that even when facing divorce, will not tell you the truth? 

You know you don't want that..... Keep moving forward, it will get better...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...it was a year ago I called that ambulance because I couldn't see out of my left eye...my only thought was I didn't want my daughter to find me dead on the kitchen floor. If she was not due home I would have been happy to just die because this is beyond comprehension. His repeated claims he was lost and depressed, he wasn't thinking straight kill me...My dad was dying and I took care of him till he did but I didn't have an affair. I almost could forgive 3 months or 6 months but 2 ****ing years????


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He's left you NO choice by disrespecting you and not OFFERING his truth.

Time to eat right, do things for yourself that make you feel better about each day!

Get busy living instead of wallowing in the thoughts of who he used to be - he's not that guy anymore.

Let him go - and start taking care of yourself for a change!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...it was a year ago I called that ambulance because I couldn't see out of my left eye...my only thought was I didn't want my daughter to find me dead on the kitchen floor. If she was not due home I would have been happy to just die because this is beyond comprehension. His repeated claims he was lost and depressed, he wasn't thinking straight kill me...My dad was dying and I took care of him till he did but I didn't have an affair. I almost could forgive 3 months or 6 months but 2 ****ing years????


No you cannot forgive it and have any self respect. Now, if we are honest, if he was not an ass hat and really got it, if he really wanted to be honest, and help you heal, you could consider it. You may still not want to stay with him. 

But that is not what he has done, he has continued to lie about all of it. What choice do you have? 

You are a beautiful woman that deserves a loving mate, that will give ALL of himself to you. 

And look, if you think you are the only one that wanted to die, then think again. I prayed for god to take me away from what I was dealing with, repeatedly. I had life insurance the kids would be ok, I just wanted the pain to stop. But that is NOT the way to deal with it.

But, when I thought that I actually might die, when I thought I might be disabled, that finally woke me up.

I am kind of a bid tough guy, but very nice, I am never scared of any situation I have ever been in. As a musician I have played in places that no self-respecting person should ever go. 

But when I had my stroke, wow, I have never been so scared. I made me reevaluate my life, and I realized what was going on and I realized that I could not do it any more. 

That is where you are at, I get it. This **** hurts, you thought you would grow old with him, but HE is the one that chose to ruin the marriage, he is the one that chose to lie, still. 

As much as all of this hurts, you have to go through it. I promise you will come out the other side. 

You will be stronger, you will be happier, I promise...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Beach and Blues...I can't tell you how much you spending your time with me means...

I know I need to move forward, to make a new life but financially I am like that typical 50's wife since I came here to take care of my foster father. I am so embarrassed to even say that since I am college educated...I don't know what I am due in support...I have not worked in 5 years who will even hire me?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Beach and Blues...I can't tell you how much you spending your time with me means...
> 
> I know I need to move forward, to make a new life but financially I am like that typical 50's wife since I came here to take care of my foster father. I am so embarrassed to even say that since I am college educated...I don't know what I am due in support...I have not worked in 5 years who will even hire me?


You are due 1/2 of the marital assets to start. 

Second, in your area there is a formula for spousal support. 

Get a lawyer and start the process. He will get pissed and it is all his fault. 

Get strong, stay strong and take care of business...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Even if he came to you with the truth, could you ever REALLY trust him again?? I know I wouldn't be able to. Those people you mentioned who end their marriages over a one night stand, those are the lucky people... because they know their boundaries and their limits, and don't waste years of their life trying to repair and get past it, only to realize that they cant. Some of us just CANT ever get to a place of real trust again, and it wouldn't matter how much the WS atoned. 

Now as for your personal situation, that you say you have no one but your kids. Well, now is the time to get to reacquainted with yourself. You need to learn to be just YOU and not part of another person, its a whole new dynamic. Think of all the things you ever wanted to do but couldn't or wouldn't because of him, and do them. Find a new hobby, or better yet, get back to an old one you used to enjoy, but let go of. Consider finding a therapist to help you through this. Go online and look for meetup groups, or classes you could take. Don't allow yourself to wallow that you are alone. You have your kids. Well, your daughter at least, sounds like your son has some issues, so if he cant be supportive, then maybe its best he stay away for now. 

Most of all, be proud that you stood up for yourself, and made the choice NOT to be disrespected any more. You should find empowerment in this, sometimes you just have to look for it since it hides under the initial despair.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> aine, I can't say he doesn't show remorse because I can see it but he just won't admit to the things he doesn't want to admit to himself. We both know, as any human with a brain cell knows, people who sext, send naked pictures and masturbation videos to each other don't just have make out sessions with heavy grouping when they get together...I think because the affair took place in cars he thinks that is easier to believe. I just decided I can't beg for the truth anymore and I do think he can't face the shame.
> 
> 
> There are so many separate issues within the one... even if I unravel frequency and what was done sexually I battle with the length of time, the fact that this was a work affair yet he brought it home by using words with friends to communicate daily...every day in my house...in my face. He also never ended it...don't even believe he tried...he said he did but she pursued it...always being pulled back by another picture or chat. It only ended the day he couldn't lie anymore.
> ...


Torn, You do not have to justify the extent of what he did and whether there is a line across which he may or may not have crossed. 
The bottom line is how it has made you feel, how he has refused to own his nasty behaviour, how he has refused to help you past your pain, how he has chosen to protect himself, how he has lied to your face, how he has lied even when you confronted him, how he has been unfaithful in YOUR house, probably YOUR bed, the fact that he chose to gaslight you, what more do you want him to do to you before you get it. When do you say 'ENOUGH?" 
Your WH will not get it until he loses everything, some men are like that. Why should you struggle to try and find a glimmer of hope, a glimmer of remorse, it is either there or it is not and I am sorry to say, you should get as far away as possible from this man. The thing is people ever rarely really change, unless they do intensive IC, therapy, etc and are really serious about it. Even then they may have relapses.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Update...another text message from him saying that if I believe he wants this marriage to work just because he is no longer having the affair we have nothing left to talk about. That he never cared for her. This came because I made the mistake of telling him I feel like he wants me now because he could no longer continue the affair...that he wants to now try by default. What do I say to that?


I know you are angry and hurting and it is easy to retaliate. It is difficult but much better for you to go silent. Block his number, don't open emails, or messages. Ignore him, that will give him time to think about what he has done. As long as you engage with him, he thinks he can still 'talk' you into believing his version of the truth and that he can manipulate you.
Continue doing the 180 (read up on it), continue with your plan, see the lawyer, financial ducks in a row, getting a job etc. Get the support you need but follow through. 

Incidentally where has he gone to stay? That might be interesting. Also expose him to all family and friends so that he really has nowhere to hide and has to face the reality of his actions.

Take the time to heal, calm the emotions and become clearer headed. You are raw now, and making decisions in that state is never good. Put space between you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

aine...What you said about justification in my own mind is so spot on. It is crazy how while the affair was going on and I spoke to him about it my mind needed another blow another piece of evidence to justify walking away. 


I have spent the last 2 days reading ShamWow's thread and holy mother of God is that thread epic. I did exactly what he did...suspect...talk about concerns with the WS...accept the denials even ate being laughed at. I gathered more info, saw more texts...confronted...denial...round and round and round. I have cried and laughed reading his thread, feeling his pain with every thread and it has helped me tremendously to know that I am not alone and not stupid for being duped the way I was for so very long. The posters on that thread were absolutely amazing, to be honest it was breathtaking. I haven't finished his saga and will be reading the rest today.


An update on where I am now. He has moved into my son's and his girlfriends apartment until he can find an apartment. I went semi dark only answering texts that have to do with my daughter. I told him in no uncertain terms that the last almost 8 months since finding were more heinous than the 2 year lying fest that came before and that is what made me decide to move forward with a separation.


I am still overwhelmed and riding the ups and downs especially since I am not sure how to tell my daughter I am done...she wants us to work this out so badly. I am still struggling with my fear regarding finances and dying all alone. LOL


I have updated my resume and plan on buying some suits for interviews since buying work attire the last 5 years was not something I did. I know I will feel better not dragging out a 7 year old suit to wear. 


I think overall I am moving past the rage although it still does rear it's ugly head at least once a day but that is better than 24 hours of it. Maybe numb or resolved will completely take over...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> An update on where I am now. He has moved into my son's and his girlfriends apartment until he can find an apartment. I went semi dark only answering texts that have to do with my daughter. I told him in no uncertain terms that the last almost 8 months since finding were more heinous than the 2 year lying fest that came before and that is what made me decide to move forward with a separation.
> 
> I am still overwhelmed and riding the ups and downs especially since I am not sure how to tell my daughter I am done...she wants us to work this out so badly. I am still struggling with my fear regarding finances and dying all alone. LOL
> 
> ...


Again, every single thing that you are feeling is completely normal. All of it. I am sure that you think from time to time that you are going crazy, you are not. 

It is the way that these things happen, almost everyone feels a version of the same thing. It is not exactly the same for every single person, but there are common sets of emotions that everyone feels and in the end, while some a slightly different, all of them are quite similar. 

All of the, "will anyone else want me" and "will I die alone", you need to trust me and the other that tell you that is not the case. Neither of those things will happen, so you can do your best to stop worrying about it. 

Now, I am hearing you say separation... And I don't know why. 

Bottom line, you need to file for divorce, find out what you have coming and plan accordingly. 

You have been married a while, you deserve what the law says you have coming. Take it. 

His lifestyle as well as yours may decrease slightly, it is to be expected. You will not be destitute and you should be fine, esp if you find a job that helps with all of that. 

And guess what, going back to work, will take your mind off of some of the stuff you are continually thinking about. 

Here is the deal, what is coming for you is so much better that what you have now. You still don't believe it yet, but in a few months, you will. 

You are going to be happy and leave all this crap behind. And I am not saying that in the future it will not hurt from time to time, because it will. 

I hardly think of my ex, unless I have to speak to her about the kids. She is not doing great, and golly gee, it is not my problem, sorry.

You just have to trust the process...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...The feelings of going crazy are messing with me big time right now mostly because sometimes I do think I should try to reconcile and that is f*cking crazy!!! He texts me how much he knows he has hurt me and that he will never do it again, how much he misses me like he has lost a limb. I don't respond to those texts but they effect me for some asinine reason.


My struggle with being alone is probably 2 fold...maybe 3 fold...LOL. First I have never lived alone...never been without a partner for 37 years since I was 15. I grew up a foster child and have a slight attachment disorder...I don't bond to very many people and when I do it is usually to my detriment. I think sometimes so many people are screwed up what is the chance that I would find someone not as damaged as me? I know I am thinking too much and I know that I do feel better without him being here so that is positive.

I need to know what you say is true that what is coming is better...I need to know that being alone would be better...I need to remind myself that I have some worth...everything about who I thought I was has been taken from me. I am ashamed.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I need to know what you say is true that what is coming is better...I need to know that being alone would be better...I need to remind myself that I have some worth...everything about who I thought I was has been taken from me. I am ashamed.


It absolutely iS true. Being alone is infinitely better than being with someone who lies to you, and undermines and disrespects you. See my signature... life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you. And you should not be ashamed! What do you have to be ashamed about? You did nothing wrong, and now you have the chance to take your own power back. You are going to be so surprised at how much of yourself you have given up once you are free, and you are going to feel so empowered. 

And WHO CARES if he misses you? WHO CARES if he is hurt?? Who's damn fault is that? Not yours, that's for sure! He doesn't deserve the gift of reconciliation.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...The feelings of going crazy are messing with me big time right now mostly because sometimes I do think I should try to reconcile and that is f*cking crazy!!! He texts me how much he knows he has hurt me and that he will never do it again, how much he misses me like he has lost a limb. I don't respond to those texts but they effect me for some asinine reason.
> 
> My struggle with being alone is probably 2 fold...maybe 3 fold...LOL. First I have never lived alone...never been without a partner for 37 years since I was 15. I grew up a foster child and have a slight attachment disorder...I don't bond to very many people and when I do it is usually to my detriment. I think sometimes so many people are screwed up what is the chance that I would find someone not as damaged as me? I know I am thinking too much and I know that I do feel better without him being here so that is positive.
> 
> I need to know what you say is true that what is coming is better...I need to know that being alone would be better...I need to remind myself that I have some worth...everything about who I thought I was has been taken from me. I am ashamed.





3Xnocharm said:


> It absolutely iS true. Being alone is infinitely better than being with someone who lies to you, and undermines and disrespects you. See my signature... life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you. And you should not be ashamed! What do you have to be ashamed about? You did nothing wrong, and now you have the chance to take your own power back. You are going to be so surprised at how much of yourself you have given up once you are free, and you are going to feel so empowered.
> 
> And WHO CARES if he misses you? WHO CARES if he is hurt?? Who's damn fault is that? Not yours, that's for sure! He doesn't deserve the gift of reconciliation.


 @3Xnocharm is correct if I do say so myself, since she (?) if agreeing with me. 

Yeah, the crazy, I remember it well. I actually almost killed a man over this type of stuff, not proud of it, but he got what he deserved. 

And 3 is right, who cares what he thinks, who f'ing cares. Here is the deal, he had the chance to come clean, many times, and he would not. 

That is on him, the affair (2 freaking years btw) is on him, the marriage failing in on him, NONE of that is your fault. 

The attachment disorder, OK, no time like the present to start dealing with that. 

I remember when she left, finally, it is hard to describe the freedom. I did not have to take care of her, worry about her, or give a **** about her. I could walk around naked if I wanted, the kids were gone for the most part. Not that I did, but I could have. Entertain whomever I wanted to, when I wanted to...

Trust me, in a few months, your life is going to be so good, you will wonder why you waited this long to get rid of his ass...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3X and Blues...I am mostly ashamed for believing his lies and watch the affair for so long. I am ashamed I believed his lies, ashamed I didn't go there and catch them, ashamed for the days, weeks and months I spent looking for the smoking guns...I am mostly ashamed for not leaving in the last 8 months allowing him to continue to gas light me all while telling him I loved him and was willing to reconcile. I am ashamed that I took her role over after he ended it by sleeping with him at least 4 times a week. I am ashamed I settled for second place...


I was sitting on my porch earlier and I did think how nice it would be to have a man sitting on the rocker beside me who wanted only me, who wanted nothing more than to spend time with me...someone who could make me laugh...someone who I could trust. Hell I would be happy to have that living under a bridge right about now.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> 3X and Blues...I am mostly ashamed for believing his lies and watch the affair for so long. I am ashamed I believed his lies, ashamed I didn't go there and catch them, ashamed for the days, weeks and months I spent looking for the smoking guns...I am mostly ashamed for not leaving in the last 8 months allowing him to continue to gas light me all while telling him I loved him and was willing to reconcile. I am ashamed that I took her role over after he ended it by sleeping with him at least 4 times a week. I am ashamed I settled for second place...
> 
> I was sitting on my porch earlier and I did think how nice it would be to have a man sitting on the rocker beside me who wanted only me, who wanted nothing more than to spend time with me...someone who could make me laugh...someone who I could trust. Hell I would be happy to have that living under a bridge right about now.


Again, this is normal. I personally replace ashamed with stupid. And not about the infidelity. 

I was just stupid to not dump her years ago. And when it came down to the nut cutting, I really don't think she ever loved me really. 

I was a paycheck and good breeding stock. That realization hurt way more than the other stuff. 

But here is the deal. What you are dealing with, LOTS of people have dealt with... 

When a long term relationship ends, we all feel like a moron. Why didn't I just get out years ago. I knew he was cheating, I should have just filed. On and on...

While this is all normal, it is not helpful. You just have to get to the point where you can say...

"I was betrayed, I get it, it hurts... Time to move on." 

I am not saying that it does not hurt like hell because it does. But think of it like this, you did all you could. You tried. Hell, you even wanted to take him back, and the one who should be ashamed is him. 

Like I have said before, if he was not so stupid, he would have just come clean, but he won't. Not your circus, not your monkeys...

If he really wanted the marriage, he would have bared his sole, and let you look at all the nastiness but he did not... He would not... 

Again, not your issue. 

You have nothing to ashamed of...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...not my circus, not my monkeys...I like that. The fact that I did agree after the affair to take him back is astounding for me to even admit...I remember less than a month after I agreed to reconcile I discovered that she had been sending him hundreds of photos and he said "Why are you still looking it's in the past". I was being blamed for still uncovering the lies...I read in ShamWow's thread a poster saying that is like blaming the cop for a robber being in jail...if he only wouldn't have been arrested by that lousy police officer. 


He uses the word mistake a ton which I detest...a mistake is a one night stand...he also says how he does not want to lose me...lose me? You threw me away! He told my daughter this morning that he is terrified that he never thought I wouldn't forgive him...

He asked to come by tomorrow to blow the leaves out of the gutters, something he does pretty often...I don't know what to say. Should I say yes and leave, say no I will take care of it?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Respond with "do whatever you want"

Leave the blower out all day and keep the doors locked.

Don't speak to him. If he tries to talk to you then just give him a blank stare.

Get that divorce filed TODAY.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> He uses the word mistake a ton which I detest...a mistake is a one night stand...he also says how he does not want to lose me...lose me? You threw me away! He told my daughter this morning that *he is terrified that he never thought I wouldn't forgive him...
> 
> *


AHA! He thought that no matter what he did, no matter how crappy he behaved or treated you, that you would be the giant sucker who let him skate no matter what! What disrespect! And in my opinion, this shows that he WOULD cheat on you again if you reconciled! What a pig....


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Beach...That sounds like a great idea...He still has so much stuff here...he left with his uniforms and a few items of clothing so maybe leaving would be better so he could take more things with him. He uses leaving things here as a way to get back in the door. I asked him if he needed anything else the other day that my daughter could bring it to him and he said yes he needed his secondary gun and obviously my daughter couldn't bring that so he came by for it. 


My daughter is in denial, maybe I am too...she was just talking about Christmas as if he would be back by then...when I told her no he wouldn't she was visibly upset...I guess she sees me as a doormat as well, that I will be over this in a week or two.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3X...I am getting that impression as well...that no matter how many punches he threw I would get up for another one. My bad for perpetuating that...


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...not my circus, not my monkeys...I like that. The fact that I did agree after the affair to take him back is astounding for me to even admit...I remember less than a month after I agreed to reconcile I discovered that she had been sending him hundreds of photos and he said "Why are you still looking it's in the past". I was being blamed for still uncovering the lies...I read in ShamWow's thread a poster saying that is like blaming the cop for a robber being in jail...if he only wouldn't have been arrested by that lousy police officer.
> 
> 
> He uses the word mistake a ton which I detest...a mistake is a one night stand...he also says how he does not want to lose me...lose me? You threw me away! He told my daughter this morning that he is terrified that he never thought I wouldn't forgive him...
> ...


You did not know that your husband had turned your marriage into a new "game" which followed the cheater's handbook, and only he had the handbook.

Reading ShamWow's thread has equipped you with a lot of reality. Now you know.

Who cares if he is terrified you won't forgive him. He is trying to manipulate your daughter into blaming you for not forgiving him, rather than owning that he did the unforgivable. Let it roll off you and not stick.

If he wants to clean the gutters, let him. Then you won't have to pay someone to do it. Tell him what time he can come over, and make sure you are gone.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Beach...That sounds like a great idea...He still has so much stuff here...he left with his uniforms and a few items of clothing so maybe leaving would be better so he could take more things with him. He uses leaving things here as a way to get back in the door. I asked him if he needed anything else the other day that my daughter could bring it to him and he said yes he needed his secondary gun and obviously my daughter couldn't bring that so he came by for it.
> 
> 
> My daughter is in denial, maybe I am too...she was just talking about Christmas as if he would be back by then...when I told her no he wouldn't she was visibly upset...I guess she sees me as a doormat as well, that I will be over this in a week or two.


Pack all his clothes and everything he may need - set it outside the front door.

Change the locks today!

When he comes by make sure he knows to gather his things.

Do not respond at all to anything he says. It's all lies anyway - try to be gone while he's there unless you think he will take stuff you love.

Get the D filed!


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Torn, make a list of every single chance you have given him. The first time you confronted him, that was a chance he had to come clean, end the A, and R with you. The second time is another chance. When you told him to stop texting her was another chance. If you look at every single time you confronted him about something A related and you didn't immediately end the marriage as a chance, how many chances have you given him? 5? 10? 100? Keep track and the second him, your daughter, or anyone else asks you to give him another chance, start listing it all off and ask how many chances he should get after this. They're going to say a big, fat zero. 

He's had tons of chances, more chances than most get, and he still couldn't get it together. He had a chance to be honest with you most recently when you asked your questions and he lied. He blew it AGAIN! All he had to do was answer honestly as if he really thinks whether he got 4 blowjobs or 8 is going to make a big difference at this point and he can't even give you that.

This isn't about love. It's about respect. He may love you but he doesn't respect you enough to put you first. He doesn't respect you enough to give you the truth. He doesn't respect you enough to protect your health. Who knows what the OW could have had with how she was acting! Have you gotten checked yet?

Love without respect isn't special. It's like getting an honorable mention instead of a trophy. It means SOMETHING but at the end of the day it's cheap compared to the real thing because his words may say he loves you but his actions are abusive, cruel, and disrespectful. You should be the most important person in his life and yet this is how he "loves" you? Thinking it's better to lie to you and gaslight you then be a tiny bit honest about his transgressions? And some how thinking that's better and more okay if you believe it?

This is one of the worst cases of emotional abuse coupled with infidelity that I have ever seen. The only worse than it is a woman who had to endure hours of her WH screaming at her when she would confront him with a lie or question his remorsefulness. In fact, I suspect that you have endured similar behavior so you might be right up there with her. She's divorced and happy by the way.

Things DO get better but not when you have someone beating you down and disappointing you. You will be shocked how good the dating scene can be for your age once you get out of this situation and get healthy. Have you thought about seeing a counselor just for yourself?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

When you pick out all his things left in the house and set them out for him to retrieve - he will get a clear message you are done with his nonsense.

Do it - it's very therapeutic!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Araucari...I don't want my daughter in the middle of this at all and she is trying to stay neutral as best she can. We just had lunch together and I explained how I was feeling and what has transpired. It is hard to describe to a 20 year old some of the thigs I discovered about her father...awkward. I never let on to her during the 2 years he was cheating...maybe a passing comment but never spoke directly to her about it. I think now that she has more details she will understand my decision.


Beach...I was hoping not to have to change the locks...I am hoping he simply stays away when I ask him to. I am going to go out let him come and do what he needs to. I need to get some new clothes so I will look forward to a trip to the mall. I don't want to get him cranked up with the whole lock thing.


Neko...Wow...That about wrapped it up with a big bow and yes I was screamed at many times based on the lies he told. I did make mistakes during that time...there were times I approached him while drinking...I know now I put myself on my backfoot from the get go...he used that to his advantage...he exploited it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It's time to let your daughter know the truth. Gently tell her.

Changing the lockswas for YOU!

So YOU take control of something in your life.
So you can fee safe and secure while at home.



It's past time you start considering YOUR feelings, not his!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> He uses the word mistake a ton which I detest...a mistake is a one night stand...he also says how he does not want to lose me...lose me? You threw me away! He told my daughter this morning that he is terrified that he never thought I wouldn't forgive him...
> 
> He asked to come by tomorrow to blow the leaves out of the gutters, something he does pretty often...I don't know what to say. Should I say yes and leave, say no I will take care of it?





Torninhalf said:


> My daughter is in denial, maybe I am too...she was just talking about Christmas as if he would be back by then...when I told her no he wouldn't she was visibly upset...I guess she sees me as a doormat as well, that I will be over this in a week or two.





Torninhalf said:


> Araucari...I don't want my daughter in the middle of this at all and she is trying to stay neutral as best she can. We just had lunch together and I explained how I was feeling and what has transpired. It is hard to describe to a 20 year old some of the thigs I discovered about her father...awkward. I never let on to her during the 2 years he was cheating...maybe a passing comment but never spoke directly to her about it. I think now that she has more details she will understand my decision.


Just about some of this. 

First off, I did not realize he was a cop. Based on that, dear, this is not his first rodeo. Get that, not his first affair. 

That actually makes sense that he won't really come clean. He got away with it this long he feel like if he just deflects long enough, you will take him back. 

Next, you are going to have to get tough now. Enough *****footing around already. 

1) The next time he says mistake, you look at him and say FFUUU.... It was not a mistake, it was a lifestyle and a choice. And you say that EVERY TIME HE tries to give you that line of BS. 

2) Next time he tries to insinuate or act like he is coming back your look at him and say FU buddy, we are done get it through your head. You might as well go back to your girl friend. 

3) Are you getting the idea, I could go on...

Lastly, like a lot of parents, no offense, your daughter is an adult. In a year she will be able to do anything she wants. Sign contracts and on and on. You have to stop treating he like a child. She is not a child. 

It is time to sit her down and lay out the gory details. No, she does not want to hear it but it is time. You need to treat he like an adult. 

Something like, "You dad had a two year affair, that I know of, with x. I have tried to give him a chance but he will not come clean about everything. Now I am done... I am divorcing your father. I know it hurts and I am sorry that I have to do this. But understand, your dad had every chance to do the right thing and now it is too late. I have too much respect for myself to put up with this. You have to understand that we are not getting back together." 

Let her cry for a day or to and let her move on. 

BTW, understand this. One reason you H will not really come clean, is that he had cheated so much that he does not remember what he has done. Like I said, this is not his first affair, that long as a cop, it could be his 10th for all you know. He does not know where to start. 

I am not bashing police officers, I just work with a lot of them and know a lot more. This is the way that it is.

Come on now, get tough and start standing on your own two feet, you are a grown ass woman...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Beach...the reason I am trying to keep this civil is the last 8 months for her have been very hard...she has seen fights she should have never had to witness. I am mentally drained and can't handle one more fight that involves her. I will do it if he comes here without me giving him permission. So far so good...


Since this has all happened this is the longest I have not seen him and it feels good...not making small talk in between lies and me making pot roast for dinner. Yesterday I ordered Panera delivery just for me...felt guilty spending 20 bucks on myself for dinner but it was nice not concerning myself with others for a change. I realized I had to no longer worry that I had to make enough dinner so he could have lunch for the next day...made me wonder if she ever ate some of the food I cooked during their "lunches". Crazy sh*t....


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues...I honestly don't believe he has had other affairs...I of course could be wrong but never before this had I ever even felt that for a second. I do know the profession is wrought with it...


My daughter knows he had an affair and the length of time...I told her on D-Day...what she didn't know was how many times I approached him...his denials, the mental abuse. I explained much of that today and she understands...she is my shining light in all of this. I know that I will feel better showing her by my future actions that no-one should have to endure this. I am pissed I didn't listen to my gut much earlier. I feel finally like I am standing thanks to the support I am getting here.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It's time to show your daughter what a strong and courageous woman looks like!

Lead by example.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Beach...you are so right and she said today during lunch that she sees a shift in me this last week. She knows I have gone semi-dark as she keeps asking if we "talked". I thinks it stings her a little that I have shut the door on the possibility of R because it wasn't off the table 2 weeks ago. She will be absolutely fine if I am and that has to be my focus now.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues...The feelings of going crazy are messing with me big time right now mostly because sometimes I do think I should try to reconcile and that is f*cking crazy!!! He texts me how much he knows he has hurt me and that he will never do it again, how much he misses me like he has lost a limb. I don't respond to those texts but they effect me for some asinine reason.
> 
> 
> My struggle with being alone is probably 2 fold...maybe 3 fold...LOL. First I have never lived alone...never been without a partner for 37 years since I was 15. I grew up a foster child and have a slight attachment disorder...I don't bond to very many people and when I do it is usually to my detriment. I think sometimes so many people are screwed up what is the chance that I would find someone not as damaged as me? I know I am thinking too much and I know that I do feel better without him being here so that is positive.
> ...


Please go and seek a counselor to help you through these feelings. You can never depend on another person to complete you. YOu must be happy within yourself first.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> 3X and Blues...I am mostly ashamed for believing his lies and watch the affair for so long. I am ashamed I believed his lies, ashamed I didn't go there and catch them, ashamed for the days, weeks and months I spent looking for the smoking guns...I am mostly ashamed for not leaving in the last 8 months allowing him to continue to gas light me all while telling him I loved him and was willing to reconcile. I am ashamed that I took her role over after he ended it by sleeping with him at least 4 times a week. I am ashamed I settled for second place...
> 
> 
> I was sitting on my porch earlier and I did think how nice it would be to have a man sitting on the rocker beside me who wanted only me, who wanted nothing more than to spend time with me...someone who could make me laugh...someone who I could trust. Hell I would be happy to have that living under a bridge right about now.


You have nothing to be ashamed about, this is not your fault. You did not make him lie, cheat and use you. 
However, it will be your fault if you do not

1. take action to take care of yourself first and foremost
2. choose to stop wallowing and get the professional help you really need
3. decide to move onward and upwards

No-one can do this for you except you. Of course it is painful, there will be difficult days. But your WH is a POS who used, abused you and gas-lit you till he got caught. Remember his words mean nothing, that is just more of his manipulation.
Remember: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

aine...how right you are...he has shown me who he is and it is so painful that I spent all these years with him never knowing what was lurking underneath. I have spent the last 2 days trying to stay busy, trying to focus on MY future and what it is I want. He texted me a couple of times, apologizing and stating he knows how cruel he was...that he didn't even recognize himself during the affair. I don't respond other than OK or I appreciate the apology. I vacillate between wallowing in the pool of "what am I going to do now" to "I can't wait to see what is next". I am starting to feel Bi-Polar with extreme highs and crushing lows. It is so odd the feeling of focusing on myself because all the focus for most of my life has been on my husband and my children. Oddly enough my daughter will be moving out in May after she graduates and I will truly be "Empty nest". That is frightening and exhilarating at the same time...seems most of my thoughts run like that. I miss him and that makes me want to punch myself...rambling I know but this is where I am.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Kids for the most part don't want their world to change. However, they aren't on the receiving end of this and can't/don't see it the way you do. Hence, they don't understand why you just don't get over it and everything goes back to normal.

As everyone here knows infidelity is a lifelong gift you got served.

Sorry you're here


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Araucari...I don't want my daughter in the middle of this at all and she is trying to stay neutral as best she can. We just had lunch together and I explained how I was feeling and what has transpired. It is hard to describe to a 20 year old some of the thigs I discovered about her father...awkward. I never let on to her during the 2 years he was cheating...maybe a passing comment but never spoke directly to her about it. I think now that she has more details she will understand my decision.


Torn, when my last husband divorced me to be with his first wife, (which meant putting myself and my daughter out of his house after being there less than a year) my daughter, 15 at the time, was very very angry with me, and blamed me for it. She was crazy about her new stepdad, our newly found financial stability and new (to us) home, and she was so hurt by it all. This crushed me, because she and I had always been super close, each other's rock. That she blamed me hurt me so badly, and made it that much harder for me to try and heal and move on. We had not even been married a year, and I was still very much in love with him. (STUPID!!!) His insistence on being there for his ex was a HUGE issue starting not long after we moved into his house. My daughter did finally get to a place where she wasn't angry with me over this any more once we settled into our own house and life got back to normal.

She did finally get to a place of understanding about the whole thing when I showed her an old email I had received. It was from the boyfriend of my now XH's then ex wife. He had reached out to let me know that the two of them were involved in at least an emotional affair, and described to me how they had talked about me and laughed at me in emails, how they texted each other all the time, etc. Unfortunately, his email came too late, after my ex had told me he was divorcing me. Anyway, seeing this was confirmation for my daughter that this whole debacle was indeed NOT my fault, and she was proud of me for being strong. (I really hadn't been, I didn't think, but was glad she saw it that way!) 

I hope your lunch conversation with your daughter is the catalyst to her understanding you. And I hope she follows your example should something similar happen to her in her life. I just thought I'd share this with you to let you know to hang in there, that if she is upset with you, eventually she will get to a place where she gets it


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Wow...hard to believe it has been almost 2 months since I have posted to my own thread being I am here every day devouring posts from years ago. I want to thank everyone who posted, who took time out of their own lives to assist a stranger on the internet. 

Update on me and this ridiculous saga...It has been almost 10 months since D day although I knew the affair was going on long before the actual D-Day (which makes me despise myself for loving and trusting him thru the obvious lies). I am no better off than I was 2 months, 6 months or even 10 months ago. He "finally" admitted to having sex with her...wait for it...ONCE. That "once" was also...wait for it "horrible" because he couldn't get hard enough to put on a condom...For the love of God do they all follow the same ****ty script? 


For me, at this juncture, the affair (which was 2 years) is less important than the almost 10 months of lying...he spent countless hours trying to convince me that it was "mostly" sexting...except those times he and she went to MY car for lunch...He admits to being with her at least once a week during lunch...he "claims" that most times it was "fooling around" you know the standard issue groping with a few blow jobs and oral sex on her thrown in. I absolutely love the "it was once, twice maybe 3 times but I don't remember song and dance. 


As it stands now he left the house for 5 weeks...begged to come home...was so distraught I was actually worried about him. Finances were taking a hit and I said he could come home but I was still not sure if I was willing to truly reconcile...he said he understood but would take any chance to be with me. He is great around the house but still recoils when I mention the affair...still wants to stand by his "stories"...once, twice maybe three times BS. He, I believe will take it to his grave rather than tell the truth. 


The OW no longer works with him so that is a plus but I feel indifferent now...not love, not hate...just nothing. He says over and over how disgusted he is with himself...how he can't believe how depraved he was...how he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me (like that can happen) yet life proceeds as normal. Such a screwed up life to be living. I know if I won the lotto I would bolt and that makes me feel incredibly sad because deep inside I am playing this ridiculous game because of finances...not love. 


Maybe y'all could kick my ass a bit and assuage my fear of being a homeless bag lady.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow...hard to believe it has been almost 2 months since I have posted to my own thread being I am here every day devouring posts from years ago. I want to thank everyone who posted, who took time out of their own lives to assist a stranger on the internet.
> 
> Update on me and this ridiculous saga...It has been almost 10 months since D day although I knew the affair was going on long before the actual D-Day (which makes me despise myself for loving and trusting him thru the obvious lies). I am no better off than I was 2 months, 6 months or even 10 months ago. He "finally" admitted to having sex with her...wait for it...ONCE. That "once" was also...wait for it "horrible" because he couldn't get hard enough to put on a condom...For the love of God do they all follow the same ****ty script?


Yes, yes they do. This is trickle truth, by admitting just a small amount of what was actually done, he thinks that it makes it easier for you to accept and to let go of. You have to know that this barely touches on what actually went down. 



Torninhalf said:


> For me, at this juncture, the affair (which was 2 years) is less important than the almost 10 months of lying...he spent countless hours trying to convince me that it was "mostly" sexting...except those times he and she went to MY car for lunch...He admits to being with her at least once a week during lunch...he "claims" that most times it was "fooling around" you know the standard issue groping with a few blow jobs and oral sex on her thrown in. I absolutely love the "it was once, twice maybe 3 times but I don't remember song and dance.


This is every bit as cheating as intercourse is. And this went on for TWO YEARS. For TWO YEARS this man blatantly lied to your face. Daily. On purpose. For two years another woman was his priority over you and over your marriage. He thinks because it wasn't PIV every time (but most likely it was) that it is a lesser offense. Well, IT ISNT, not even close!! 



Torninhalf said:


> As it stands now he left the house for 5 weeks...begged to come home...was so distraught I was actually worried about him. Finances were taking a hit and I said he could come home but I was still not sure if I was willing to truly reconcile...he said he understood but would take any chance to be with me. *He is great around the house but still recoils when I mention the affair...still wants to stand by his "stories"...once, twice maybe three times BS. He, I believe will take it to his grave rather than tell the truth.
> *
> 
> The OW no longer works with him so that is a plus but I feel indifferent now...not love, not hate...just nothing. He says over and over how disgusted he is with himself...how he can't believe how depraved he was...how he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me (like that can happen) yet life proceeds as normal. Such a screwed up life to be living. I know if I won the lotto I would bolt and that makes me feel incredibly sad because deep inside I am playing this ridiculous game because of finances...not love.
> ...


You cannot reconcile as long as *THIS* is going on. There can be no R without full disclosure, remorse, and transparency. He wants to sweep it under the rug and go on with life like nothing happened. He says he will spend the rest of his life making this up to you, but he isn't willing to tell the truth, so how exactly do YOU think this is going to work?? 

Worrying about finances is normal, but you have to get past that fear and come up with a plan. Do you really want to be stuck with this POS of a man forever because of money?? You will find a way to make it, all of us who have divorced have made it. Many of us struggle, but some struggle beats being with a cheater 100%! You can do it, you really can, take my word for it as someone who has!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3X...he will die before telling the truth...cut and dry. so now what?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you happiness...I think after the affair came out I could have moved forward but he continued to lie day after day. He promised he would never lie again yet the truth came out in dribs and drabs as I discovered new things. He said I was "looking for things" instead of simply putting it behind me. Damn straight I went looking it was a 2 year affair!!! Was it wrong of me to try and reconstruct what was actually happening?
> 
> He did say yesterday that he will no longer talk about the affair period that the only truth I needed to know was that he loved me.


Sorry but if he loved you he would never treat you like this. 2 Years at least of lies deception and constant sex. Then trying to make you think you were imaging it. He isn't even repentant nor did he bother to get another job away from her. He still lies and deceives so how can you possibly trust him ever again?
Get legal advise and see what you options are. Can you get a job? Stay with relatives? Can you tell him to leave permanently and get a smaller place for yourself? 
I have no idea why you are still there, there are ways of doing this if you really want to.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> 3X...he will die before telling the truth...cut and dry. so now what?


 I'm assuming you have *limited options* because you're financially dependent on this lying, disrespectful POS, so you have no choice BUT to consider staying with him. Ugh.

I ask this in all seriousness. Why would you even CONSIDER being with someone who lied to your face every single day for two years and worse, once you found out the truth *CONTINUES* to lie to your face every single day? Even if lightening struck this lowlife slug tomorrow and he became a saint, why would you overlook what he thought was *perfectly FINE to do to you* for two years running and continuing right up to this minute?



> The OW no longer works with him so that is a plus but I feel indifferent now..


So big deal. Circumstances have occurred that just happen to have his OW working elsewhere. That's not a plus. A lying snake like your husband can just meet up with her somewhere else, is all.

Personally, I would never stay with someone this low. Ever. Staying with him sends him the message that you don't respect yourself. It basically tells him that he can treat you literally like **** - day in and day out for 2 solid years, and even after you find out a semblance of the truth and he SEES your pain and SEES your devastation, he STILL lies to your face. Covering his slimy hide is more important to him than being honest with you.

Think about that for a minute. 

*Covering his sorry ass STILL completely trumps being honest with you for the first time in years.*

Why would you even consider staying with someone this sleazy?



> As it stands now he left the house for 5 weeks...begged to come home...was so distraught I was actually worried about him.


Poor, poor snowflake. He needed his mommy (you) to wipe his ass for him and tell him to come in out of the rain. Too bad he wasn't abducted by a rogue band of gypsies and carried off somewhere never to be seen again. All your problems would disappear just like that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Got it...

I hear you...I hate myself for even being here but yes I am financially stuck after 30 plus years..If I leave I will be broke...cut and dry.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

New to the party. I was working a lot when your thread was started and missed it. Read it here and there over yesterday and this morning.

Have you spoken to a lawyer? Do you know, for sure, the financial picture? I know in my state, in a situation such as yours, your husband would have to pay the bills as usual for at least 6 months while you work through the divorce process. Due to length of marriage, you'd be entitled to lifetime alimony, half his pension, etc. See what the law says in your state before you accept a lifetime prison sentence.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow...hard to believe it has been almost 2 months since I have posted to my own thread being I am here every day devouring posts from years ago. I want to thank everyone who posted, who took time out of their own lives to assist a stranger on the internet.
> 
> Update on me and this ridiculous saga...It has been almost 10 months since D day although I knew the affair was going on long before the actual D-Day (which makes me despise myself for loving and trusting him thru the obvious lies). I am no better off than I was 2 months, 6 months or even 10 months ago. He "finally" admitted to having sex with her...wait for it...ONCE. That "once" was also...wait for it "horrible" because he couldn't get hard enough to put on a condom...For the love of God do they all follow the same ****ty script?
> 
> ...


Please stop listening to his words and pay attention to his actions. 

He wants to 'do everything' to make it up to you? Ha, sure, as indicative of him being withholding of the truth. With the affair that lasted as long as his has, it's pretty much a guarantee that he had sex a lot more than three times, they spent time together a lot more than three times, etc.

You'll eventually have to come to terms with the fact that you won't get the complete truth.

Please, if for your emotional and mental welfare, 180 or gray rock him. You need to start focusing on yourself now.

I agree with the previous poster. Are you certain that if you go down the path of D that you'll end up truly broke?


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