# The Singles of TAM 2.0



## FeministInPink

This is a continuation of the original Singles of TAM thread, which is now 2300+ pages. 

If you want to see where we left off or figure what the heck any of us are talking about, you can read the old thread here.

Please do not post any responses in the old thread--please post them here instead.

I'm going to roll call people who posted to the old Singles thread recently to help them find this new one: @Bananapeel @ne9907 @3Xnocharm @anewstart60 @GuyInColorado @TooNice @RandomDude @vi_bride04 @Absurdist @Herschel @Haiku @Hopeful Cynic @Satya @bkyln309 @tripad @Hope Shimmers @*Deidre* @sosotte @wantshelp @moco82 @EleGirl @Ynot

ETA: For anyone NEW to the Singles thread, you can post anything about your experiences as a newly single person, ask questions or advice, or respond to any of the other folks on the thread. We're a friendly bunch, and we welcome everyone, even people who aren't single, but just want to hang out with the coolest people of TAM.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> FeministInPink said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... it actually ended up being a pretty easy conversation! He said that he absolutely understood, and that I should never feel bad for leaving to just take care of me stuff. He loves having me around, but he doesn't want to keep me from doing what I need to do to live my life. He said he was surprised that I've spent the entire weekend--especially with the two three-day weekends we just had--but he figured if I had stuff I needed to do, that I would leave. We've agreed that, unless we make explicit plans otherwise, I'll leave by 2 pm or so on Sunday, or if we want to do something on Sunday, I'll take Saturday afternoon for myself. And if I need more than that, I'll take it.
> 
> He is so understanding, and kind, and exceptional... where did he come from? How did his crazy XW give this guy up??? He's just... amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> FIP, this is just awesome. I am so happy for you.
Click to expand...

 @TooNice Thanks! I will admit, part of my conditioned, reptilian brain is like, "What? You don't want me here all the time? Are your affections waning? Do you not like me as much as you did before? Why are you not being selfish, jealous, and controlling? You should want me with you ALL THE TIME!!!"

And I have to say, "Reptilian brain, that is just stinkin thinkin! That is your fear of abandonment talking. If he DID want that, he would be an abusive, manipulative, *******, and you don't want that. Remember, what you have in front of you is an example of a HEALTHY relationship. He wants you to take time for yourself and be independent. He is not abandoning you. He is not leaving you. He just wants to support you. This is GOOD. This is OK." And then make soothing sounds, whatever sounds a reptile finds soothing.


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## bkyln309

Woo hoo! made it to the new thread

FIP: Glad Real Estate was understanding.


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## *Deidre*

Thank you FIP!! Hope you are doing great these days! 

I made it on page 1 yay!


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## 225985

What about the "want to be singles"?

Or the "want to act single while marrieds"?


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## FeministInPink

blueinbr said:


> What about the "want to be singles"?
> 
> Or the "want to act single while marrieds"?


All are welcome. However, I can't promise that they won't get the smackdown if they start talking about cheating or whatnot. We're an opinionated group.

But we have married folks pop in from time to time and comment in the discussion.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Woo hoo! made it to the new thread
> 
> FIP: Glad Real Estate was understanding.


Me, too! I don't know why I was worried... I guess there is still a lot of conditioning left over from my former marriage and/or FOO buried deep in there.


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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> All are welcome. However, I can't promise that they won't get the smackdown if they start talking about cheating or whatnot. We're an opinionated group.
> 
> But we have married folks pop in from time to time and comment in the discussion.


Married people are NOT single even if they want to be.


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice Thanks! I will admit, part of my conditioned, reptilian brain is like, "What? You don't want me here all the time? Are your affections waning? Do you not like me as much as you did before? Why are you not being selfish, jealous, and controlling? You should want me with you ALL THE TIME!!!"
> 
> And I have to say, "Reptilian brain, that is just stinkin thinkin! That is your fear of abandonment talking. If he DID want that, he would be an abusive, manipulative, *******, and you don't want that. Remember, what you have in front of you is an example of a HEALTHY relationship. He wants you to take time for yourself and be independent. He is not abandoning you. He is not leaving you. He just wants to support you. This is GOOD. This is OK." And then make soothing sounds, whatever sounds a reptile finds soothing.


Bahaha! This made me laugh. The guy I am seeing messaged me very late a couple of nights ago. He had been very bothered about something and wanted to clear the air. We were having dinner the other night (um, dinner he made for me, btw. At my house. Brought all the ingredients and took over my kitchen. <swoon>).

Anyway, we were just chatting about family and such, and I asked if he had told his family about me yet. He said no, and conversation moved on. Turns out, he started to feel badly, thinking that I would feel minimized or slighted by the fact that he hasn't mentioned me. And it bothered him enough to clear the air. I assured him that I only asked because I was curious and goodness, no... I didn't feel put out in the least. I'm a big girl. THAT won't be a thing that bothers me. Especially with a substantial age gap, let's take some time and figure this out before we start making a big deal about bringing people home to meet the family. I try to tell men that I am pretty low-maintenance. One of these days I'll get one of them to be honest enough with me to realize that I actually mean it.  Maybe it's this one, maybe not. But I still like that I am not running for cover, searching for reasons why I shouldn't hang out for a bit and see what happens. He's sweet, kind and honest. I want to let that be enough for now.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Married people are NOT single even if they want to be.


Quite right! But married people can still comment here, the way that women can comment in the Men's Clubhouse.

I think Blueinrb was trolling us a little with that comment.


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> All are welcome. However, I can't promise that they won't get the smackdown if they start talking about cheating or whatnot. We're an opinionated group.
> 
> But we have married folks pop in from time to time and comment in the discussion.


Agreed. And as we all know, there are stages to this process that we all go through. Are you "wanting to be single" and cheating on a spouse? Are your possessions divided, divorce papers filed and you're all moved out and in a new place by yourself? Circumstances matter to some. To others, until the gavel falls, you're still married.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Bahaha! This made me laugh. The guy I am seeing messaged me very late a couple of nights ago. He had been very bothered about something and wanted to clear the air. We were having dinner the other night (um, dinner he made for me, btw. At my house. Brought all the ingredients and took over my kitchen. <swoon>).
> 
> Anyway, we were just chatting about family and such, and I asked if he had told his family about me yet. He said no, and conversation moved on. Turns out, he started to feel badly, thinking that I would feel minimized or slighted by the fact that he hasn't mentioned me. And it bothered him enough to clear the air. I assured him that I only asked because I was curious and goodness, no... I didn't feel put out in the least. I'm a big girl. THAT won't be a thing that bothers me. Especially with a substantial age gap, let's take some time and figure this out before we start making a big deal about bringing people home to meet the family. I try to tell men that I am pretty low-maintenance. One of these days I'll get one of them to be honest enough with me to realize that I actually mean it.  Maybe it's this one, maybe not. But I still like that I am not running for cover, searching for reasons why I shouldn't hang out for a bit and see what happens. He's sweet, kind and honest. I want to let that be enough for now.


This is the younger guy, right? At some point, if a guy is keeping you a *secret* from his friends and family (because maybe he has another girlfriend), then that's a problem. But if he's just waiting until things get more serious, or he's just very private, that's different. I know by this point, Real Estate's friends and [some] of his family are aware of my existence, but I've only met one or two friends. And I know I won't meet family unless he wants to make a serious commitment. I'm not a secret, he's just a very private person.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Agreed. And as we all know, there are stages to this process that we all go through. Are you "wanting to be single" and cheating on a spouse? *Are your possessions divided, divorce papers filed and you're all moved out and in a new place by yourself?* Circumstances matter to some. To others, until the gavel falls, you're still married.


We've had people at this stage participate in the group. Most of the time, they realize they are NOT ready/single yet, but we celebrate the finalization of their divorce with them anyway


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> This is the younger guy, right? At some point, if a guy is keeping you a *secret* from his friends and family (because maybe he has another girlfriend), then that's a problem. But if he's just waiting until things get more serious, or he's just very private, that's different. I know by this point, Real Estate's friends and [some] of his family are aware of my existence, but I've only met one or two friends. And I know I won't meet family unless he wants to make a serious commitment. I'm not a secret, he's just a very private person.


Sounds like my guy and RE may have a common thread. 

Yes, he's 30. He is not keeping me a secret - he has actually told some of his friends about me, including my age. He's very private with his family, however. As a general rule, he does not bring any girlfriends home to meet them. It's just the relationship he has with them; he does not have a comfort level to bring most women home. He's already told me that should we progress, I will meet his friends first. He's also said that cares a great deal more about the opinions of his friends, so meeting them is more important to him than meeting his family. That does not bother me at all.


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## EleGirl

FeministInPink said:


> This is a continuation of the original Singles of TAM thread, which is now 2300+ pages.
> 
> If you want to see where we left off or figure what the heck any of us are talking about, you can read the old thread here.
> 
> Please do not post any responses in the old thread--please post them here instead.


I closed the old thread so that no one can post there. I also included a link to this thread.

Happy posting y'all. >


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## RandomDude

*sniff*

Hmmm, "new thread smell"! I like! 

In other news, my metabolism has slowed down now, I'm putting on alot of weight, which is great as I've become more sexai!  BUT! Fat is starting to accumulate on my belly 

My belt jumped 6 inches too, I'm getting fat  *does sit ups*


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## FeministInPink

EleGirl said:


> I closed the old thread so that no one can post there. I also included a link to this thread.
> 
> Happy posting y'all. >


Thank you, Ele. I thought about asking to close it, but I didn't know if I could, since I didn't start the original thread.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> *sniff*
> 
> Hmmm, "new thread smell"! I like!
> 
> In other news, my metabolism has slowed down now, I'm putting on alot of weight, which is great as I've become more sexai!  BUT! Fat is starting to accumulate on my belly
> 
> My belt jumped 6 inches too, I'm getting fat  *does sit ups*


It's fancy, right? I figure I'll create a new one again, once this one reaches 1000 pages.

RD--how quickly did you gain this weight? 6 inches on your belt is quite a bit, especially if it was over a short amount of time. Has your activity level and/or your diet changed significantly in recent months?

I ask because the natural slow-down in metabolism usually results in a very gradual weight gain. From what I've read, and this applies to women, but I imagine it would be slightly similar for men, changing hormones and a slower metabolism should only result in an approximate weight gain of 25# over a DECADE.

I'm thinking you gained way too much weight, way too fast, and I think you should go see a doctor.


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## Wolf1974

I didn't participate much in the other thread. Moved so fast I couldn't keep up lol. Maybe this one will pace better . Love being single


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> I didn't participate much in the other thread. Moved so fast I couldn't keep up lol. Maybe this one will pace better . Love being single


Sometimes it move super fast, and sometimes it's quiet for a few days. I hope you'll participate!


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## 225985

bkyln309 said:


> Married people are NOT single even if they want to be.




Depends on the marriage.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> It's fancy, right? I figure I'll create a new one again, once this one reaches 1000 pages.
> 
> RD--how quickly did you gain this weight? 6 inches on your belt is quite a bit, especially if it was over a short amount of time. Has your activity level and/or your diet changed significantly in recent months?
> 
> I ask because the natural slow-down in metabolism usually results in a very gradual weight gain. From what I've read, and this applies to women, but I imagine it would be slightly similar for men, changing hormones and a slower metabolism should only result in an approximate weight gain of 25# over a DECADE.
> 
> I'm thinking you gained way too much weight, way too fast, and I think you should go see a doctor.


On November I went overseas with my daughter and ate ate ate, belt jumped 2 inches, after my bday, I dunno what happened, cause in 1 month, jumped 4 more inches. I was determined to put on weight, but it's normally a struggle to gain and maintain, now it's so easy, and I'm even sexier!  Normally I get flirty or second looks from 25% of women walking past, now it's 75%  ! 

As long as I don't gain anymore in my belly 









If I start getting too fat, will see doctor, but I hope my metabolism is just "balancing" out, used to be so hypo!


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## Diana7

TooNice said:


> Agreed. And as we all know, there are stages to this process that we all go through. Are you "wanting to be single" and cheating on a spouse? Are your possessions divided, divorce papers filed and you're all moved out and in a new place by yourself? Circumstances matter to some. To others, until the gavel falls, you're still married.


I did meet my husband when he was not quite divorced, but his wife had met another men and was ending the marriage. We didnt get engaged till after the divorce was final, and there was no sex either(or anywhere near it)till we got married.


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## Elizabeth001

My divorce is contingent on the sale of the marital home which has been on the market for 1.5 years. We also signed a separation agreement at that time, part of which stated to treat each other as if we were never married. Considering it was a 10 year sexless marriage, I am dating 

We did try to cohabitate and I made it one year and moved out. It was either that or murder. lol 

So...am I legally married? Yes. Am I single and available? YOU BETCHA!

Lastly, thanks for the new thread! The other one looked interesting but the thread count was too intimidating 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> My divorce is contingent on the sale of the marital home which has been on the market for 1.5 years. We also signed a separation agreement at that time, part of which stated to treat each other as if we were never married. Considering it was a 10 year sexless marriage, I am dating
> 
> We did try to cohabitate and I made it one year and moved out. It was either that or murder. lol
> 
> So...am I legally married? Yes. Am I single and available? YOU BETCHA!
> 
> Lastly, thanks for the new thread! The other one looked interesting but the thread count was too intimidating
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are not actually single and available if you are still married in one sense. Many women wont date a man who is still married. 
Maybe reduce the price of your house? If it hasn't sold in 18 months its too expensive. Also a good declutter and decorating often helps.


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## Elizabeth001

Bwaahaaa. There's nothing you can tell me after all this time sweetheart. 

And btw...I will NEVER get married again. It's a legal contract. That is all. If you are dedicated to someone, then you are and no government contract will make it any better. In my case, it made it worse. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> Bwaahaaa. There's nothing you can tell me after all this time sweetheart.
> 
> And btw...I will NEVER get married again. It's a legal contract. That is all. If you are dedicated to someone, then you are and no government contract will make it any better. In my case, it made it worse.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 For me its marriage or nothing. BTW its so much more than a legal contract, its a 100% commitment with promises made, a covenant relationship between 2 people.


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## Elizabeth001

2 people, all of your closest friends and family, someone deemed legal to marry you, the court....hmmm...who am I leaving out? Oh yeah... the divorce attorneys. lol 

Love just seems a little more simple to me than that 


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## browser

Elizabeth001 said:


> My divorce is contingent on the sale of the marital home which has been on the market for 1.5 years.


That seems rather foolish.

I'm not understanding why you'd write up a settlement agreement making the sale of the home mandatory to finalize your divorce.

After 1.5 years I suggest um.. changing it.


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## Elizabeth001

browser said:


> That seems rather foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not understanding why you'd write up a settlement agreement making the sale of the home mandatory to finalize your divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> After 1.5 years I suggest um.. changing it.




Because everything is still in one pot. His paycheck, my paycheck. Mortgage comes out of account. 

Once you sit down with a mutual agreement in front of a notary, which he did and gladly, and sign whatever agreement, it is what it is until the terms are met and the hammer falls. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## browser

Elizabeth001 said:


> Because everything is still in one pot. His paycheck, my paycheck. Mortgage comes out of account.
> 
> Once you sit down with a mutual agreement in front of a notary, which he did and gladly, and sign whatever agreement, it is what it is until the terms are met and the hammer falls.


People get divorced all the time with a house sale pending. 

The whole "it is what it is" argument isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on. It's a defeatest victim attitude that says you're stuck with the mistakes you made in the past because there's no way to fix them. 

You didn't expect the house to take so long to sell. I get it. Now it's taking a long time to sell. You go back and revise the divorce agreement and each of you takes responsibility to pay your share out of your own individual, separate accounts. You decide who is responsible for maintenance costs or how those costs will be divided, and you determine if either of you will live there or if the house could be rented. 

Or not.


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## Elizabeth001

browser said:


> I'm not understanding your explanation/justification for not getting divorced until the house is sold.
> 
> People get divorced all the time with a house sale pending.
> 
> You sign an agreement that each of you is responsible for whatever share of the mortgage and maintenance is each parties responsibility, one or neither party continues to live in the home until it's sold, you get divorced and move on with your lives dealing with the home as necessary until it's no longer your concern.
> 
> The whole "it is what it is" argument isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on. It's a defeatest victim attitude that says you're stuck with the mistakes you made in the past because there's no way to fix them.
> 
> You didn't expect the house to take so long to sell. I get it. Now it's taking a long time to sell. You go back and revise the divorce agreement and each of you takes responsibility to pay your share out of your own individual, separate accounts.
> 
> Or not.




OR... we wait until taxes are filed and if the outcome is good, slam the price down 10k and get out of this mess. 

Look... I understand what you are saying but the whole point is that each circumstance is different. Now I could spend moments of my life explaining why we did what we did, but you're just going to have to believe me when I say that all avenues were examined. Life is not just a field of daisies my friend and I am far from ignorant when it comes to finance and real estate. 

On the up side, we have a showing today and tomorrow. I'm hopeful. But will I put my life on hold until then. Uhhh...hell no. Life is too short. 


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## browser

Elizabeth001 said:


> OR... we wait until taxes are filed and if the outcome is good, slam the price down 10k and get out of this mess.
> 
> Look... I understand what you are saying but the whole point is that each circumstance is different. Now I could spend moments of my life explaining why we did what we did, but you're just going to have to believe me when I say that all avenues were examined. Life is not just a field of daisies my friend and I am far from ignorant when it comes to finance and real estate.
> 
> On the up side, we have a showing today and tomorrow. I'm hopeful. But will I put my life on hold until then. Uhhh...hell no. Life is too short.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dropping the price 10k doesn't guarantee a quick sale. If the house has sat on the market for years, and you haven't gotten an offer $10k under the asking price then dropping it $10k won't do anything, and I'd think you'd know that if you are up to speed on finances and real estate.

I too am well versed on divorce, economics, finance, house buying and selling, and I can think of no circumstances why a divorce must be contingent on the sale of the marital residence.

None. 



None.


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## Elizabeth001

Perhaps you will feel better if I explain that he was 20k in debt when we met. Of which I helped him out of. I spent the remainder of the money from the sale of my previous home to buy the very nice home that he now enjoys while I live in a 400 sq ft apartment. We bought just before the market crashed. The house is now listed over 30k less than we paid, not to mention the thousands that we put in. How much would you prefer that we come down? lol 

I'm not chasing his retirement or 401k, money from his extremely wealthy family, etc. All I want is what I came with. Which is where we are when and if the home sells. 

There...feel better? Jezus. 


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## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> 2 people, all of your closest friends and family, someone deemed legal to marry you, the court....hmmm...who am I leaving out? Oh yeah... the divorce attorneys. lol
> 
> Love just seems a little more simple to me than that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The people are there merely to witness what the two of you are doing.The promises you are making and the covenant you are entering into. Love to me isnt true love without commitment.I wouldn't be interested in a man who expected to have sex and live together without his commitment.


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## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> Perhaps you will feel better if I explain that he was 20k in debt when we met. Of which I helped him out of. I spent the remainder of the money from the sale of my previous home to buy the very nice home that he now enjoys while I live in a 400 sq ft apartment. We bought just before the market crashed. The house is now listed over 30k less than we paid, not to mention the thousands that we put in. How much would you prefer that we come down? lol
> 
> I'm not chasing his retirement or 401k, money from his extremely wealthy family, etc. All I want is what I came with. Which is where we are when and if the home sells.
> 
> There...feel better? Jezus.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It depends on how long you want to wait to sell it. If you dont sell it then you will get nothing.


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## browser

Elizabeth001 said:


> Perhaps you will feel better if I explain that he was 20k in debt when we met. Of which I helped him out of. I spent the remainder of the money from the sale of my previous home to buy the very nice home that he now enjoys while I live in a 400 sq ft apartment. We bought just before the market crashed. The house is now listed over 30k less than we paid, not to mention the thousands that we put in. How much would you prefer that we come down? lol
> 
> I'm not chasing his retirement or 401k, money from his extremely wealthy family, etc. All I want is what I came with. Which is where we are when and if the home sells.


 @Elizabeth001

I'm sorry you met him while he was in debt and you spent all that money and he's living in the nice house while you're in a 400 square foot apartment. I'm not even going to ask how that happened nor will I ask why you won't try to reclaim some of your financial losses from his 401k, but I will maintain that nothing you wrote supports your statement that the divorce needs to wait until the house is sold. 

I'll also suggest that since he's living in the home it's quite possible and even likely that he's doing things to discourage the sale of the home, for good reason. This is why people ask the courts to force the sale of a home, and why it was not a good idea to allow him to remain in the home until it was sold. 

There were obvious mistakes made here, and I maintain that just because there were bad decisions it doesn't mean you need to just sit there and accept there's nothing you can do about it.


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## Diana7

browser said:


> Dropping the price 10k doesn't guarantee a quick sale. If the house has sat on the market for years, and you haven't gotten an offer $10k under the asking price then dropping it $10k won't do anything, and I'd think you'd know that if you are up to speed on finances and real estate.
> 
> I too am well versed on divorce, economics, finance, house buying and selling, and I can think of no circumstances why a divorce must be contingent on the sale of the marital residence.
> 
> None.
> 
> 
> 
> None.


 In the UK you can get the divorce done as long as you have agreed on the children and who gets what of the assets. I was divorced months before the rest was finalised. It was never dependant on the house.


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## browser

Diana7 said:


> In the UK you can get the divorce done as long as you have agreed on the children and who gets what of the assets. I was divorced months before the rest was finalised. It was never dependant on the house.


It's like that everywhere.


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## Diana7

browser said:


> @Elizabeth001
> 
> I'm sorry you met him while he was in debt and you spent all that money and he's living in the nice house while you're in a 400 square foot apartment. I'm not even going to ask how that happened nor will I ask why you won't try to reclaim some of your financial losses from his 401k, but I will maintain that nothing you wrote supports your statement that the divorce needs to wait until the house is sold.
> 
> I'll also suggest that since he's living in the home it's quite possible and even likely that he's doing things to discourage the sale of the home, for good reason. This is why people ask the courts to force the sale of a home, and why it was not a good idea to allow him to remain in the home until it was sold.
> 
> There were obvious mistakes made here, and I maintain that just because there were bad decisions it doesn't mean you need to just sit there and accept there's nothing you can do about it.


That did occur to me, he has no reason to want to sell the home he is living in, so he may not be presenting it in a good light. There are many things you can do to make a home more salable.


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## browser

Diana7 said:


> That did occur to me, he has no reason to want to sell the home he is living in, so he may not be presenting it in a good light. There are many things you can do to make a home more salable.


- smoking in the house
- leaving it a mess
- hanging around and being annoying during the showings
- making it difficult for brokers to schedule showings
- not cleaning up after pets
- not keeping up the landscaping and other maintenance

The list is almost endless.

I wonder how many of these things he does and I wonder if @Elizabeth001 has access to the house to see for herself or if she's getting any feedback from the broker indicating such?


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## Red Sonja

Why is @Elizabeth001 getting badgered for the decisions involved in her divorce, dating and possibility of remarriage?

These are her choices to make, period. Please knock off the thread-jack.


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## Elizabeth001

Red Sonja said:


> Why is @Elizabeth001 getting badgered for the decisions involved in her divorce, dating and possibility of remarriage?
> 
> 
> 
> These are her choices to make, period. Please knock off the thread-jack.




Thank you!




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## Red Sonja

Elizabeth001 said:


> Thank you!


No problem, it was getting tedious. This is usually a fairly upbeat thread.


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## FeministInPink

Red Sonja said:


> Why is @Elizabeth001 getting badgered for the decisions involved in her divorce, dating and possibility of remarriage?
> 
> These are her choices to make, period. Please knock off the thread-jack.


YES! This thread is to talk about dating and the single life, along with friendly and fun banter. Keep it positive and fun, please.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ne9907

/wave

Nice to see a new thread!
@RandomDude welcome to my world!!!! I WILL BE 40 this year, metabolism is betraying me... always has anyway


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## RandomDude

I just hope my fat goes to everywhere else but my belly, and so far it seems to be mostly proportionate, but... *feels tummy* I have layers of flab now when I lean over 
Also grew my hair longer as to cover up my receding hair line, people think I'm 20!  It's awesome!

And I have a HOT loving babe for a girlfriend, who I somehow still, can not find it within me to fall in love with... yet, but overall, life is good


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## TooNice

I had a great talk last night with the man I am seeing. I have been sort of wondering what is behind his some pretty great self-control when we are together. He admitted to me that he feels like having sex can make a relationship messy. He's enjoying us right now, just the way we are, and is hesitant to rush into that next step. I love that he told me that, and told him I am completely fine with waiting until it feels right for us. I think he was very relieved to find out that I actually agree with him. We have plenty of time, and we really like spending time together. We don't have to rush things. 

We talked more about our age gap, as well. Neither of us really feels it's an issue, so I suppose I really don't care what anyone else may think. (With a few exceptions.) It was a fantastic night and conversation, and I am just so happy to be a stage where I am allowing myself to just let this play out - wherever it may lead.


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## Hope Shimmers

Hey FIP thanks for leading us here.

It's been a busy month. Ex-boyfriend had been telling me for months to move on and find someone else, but it seems he didn't like it when I did. I tried again to reach out to him to see if this could be fixed. He said he needed time to process that I was with another man. Well, I ended up with a detached retina 24 hours later so I sent him an email saying I was going into surgery.... and crickets. Silence. No comment. Until he exploded at me for contacting him when "he" needed his time to get over me being with someone else and to decide if I was 'good enough' for him.

I still can't believe he didn't bother to even ask how I was. Nothing. Just All. About. Him. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

He doesn't care about me. Hasn't in a long time. Actions speak. No man that cares, acts like that. It's humiliating, but it's enlightening. Uggh. Not that much of 2017 wasted on such a man.

I just think he has read so much on these forums that he is looking for me to be a cheater. I am NOT a cheater!!! He is making it so hard to measure up. He is making it SO hard to work through anything that isn't perfect to him. Apparently he thinks there are so many women out there better than me, I don't even know how, but better than me. I don't think he sees reality of what things are.

I hope everyone is doing better. Going to go back and re-read the posts in this thread.


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## FeministInPink

@Hope Shimmers Block your ex-boyfriend on your phone, and all other forms of social media. He doesn't want you, but he doesn't want anyone else to have you, either. Such juvenile behavior!

And he needs to figure out if YOU are "good enough" for HIM? Forget that! You should never have to feel like you have to measure up to someone else's expectations, especially not with a [potential] partner. We are all imperfect people, but a good partner will love you, flaws and all. A good partner will still think you're amazing, even with your flaws.

Don't settle for less. Kick this loser ex-boyfriend out of your life for good. It's just tormenting you, to no good end.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice I'm glad that you and your young buck have had a meeting of the minds, and are seeing things eye to eye. I hope it continues to go well.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hey FIP thanks for leading us here.
> 
> It's been a busy month. Ex-boyfriend had been telling me for months to move on and find someone else, but it seems he didn't like it when I did. I tried again to reach out to him to see if this could be fixed. He said he needed time to process that I was with another man. Well, I ended up with a detached retina 24 hours later so I sent him an email saying I was going into surgery.... and crickets. Silence. No comment. Until he exploded at me for contacting him when "he" needed his time to get over me being with someone else and to decide if I was 'good enough' for him.
> 
> I still can't believe he didn't bother to even ask how I was. Nothing. Just All. About. Him.
> 
> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
> 
> He doesn't care about me. Hasn't in a long time. Actions speak. No man that cares, acts like that. It's humiliating, but it's enlightening. Uggh. Not that much of 2017 wasted on such a man.
> 
> I just think he has read so much on these forums that he is looking for me to be a cheater. I am NOT a cheater!!! He is making it so hard to measure up. He is making it SO hard to work through anything that isn't perfect to him. Apparently he thinks there are so many women out there better than me, I don't even know how, but better than me. I don't think he sees reality of what things are.
> 
> I hope everyone is doing better. Going to go back and re-read the posts in this thread.


Hope, you seriously need to stop beating this horrible, dead horse. You found someone who treats you like a human, for the love of God, STOP REACHING OUT TO THAT PIECE OF SH!T.


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## TooNice

@Hope Shimmers - NOTHING about what you have said about this man is worth your time. Block him and walk away. 

You deserve better.


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## FeministInPink

So, even though Real Estate and I had that little talk, it's going to be hard to stick with it... this past weekend, we were supposed to go to the Auto Show on Sunday, but we postponed that a week because I broke my toe this past Friday morning and was trying to stay off of it. So I was with him Friday evening, stayed over, most of the day Saturday (less 3 hrs in the afternoon when I went to my writers group), Saturday evening, stayed over, and then most of the day Sunday. Around 10 am on Sunday, he was like, "So, what time should you leave today, to get your stuff done?" And I said I was thinking 6 pm. So, we were doing stuff, and it got to be around 5 pm, and he's like, "Do you _really_ have to leave at 6? Maybe you could stay a little longer."

It's so sweet. He doesn't want me to leave. That's why it's so hard to make myself go home!!! I adore this guy so, so much :grin2:


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## Hope Shimmers

Thanks. You guys are great (and right). It just hurts to have to accept that the person you thought you loved, really doesn't give one sh*t about you. 

@FeministInPink - I'm so happy for you! Jealous too.  It's so great to know that there are relationships out there like that. The sky is the limit!

@TooNice - thank you! I need to go back through your posts because I can't remember how much younger he is than you. As long as you are at the same place in life, age doesn't matter. 

@3Xnocharm - Love how you never mince words. LOL Thank you

@ne9907 - 40 is young! What I wouldn't give to be 40 again....


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## FeministInPink

@Hope Shimmers I had to kiss a lot of frogs to find him. And I've had to be VERY patient. He has a lot of baggage that would have had a lot of women calling it quits, and I almost did a few times... but I stuck it out because something was telling me that he was worth it. He was trying to keep me at arm's length for a long time, because he was scared; he needed to see that I was willing to stick it out, for him to trust me enough to start letting me in. So it's been slow going, but it HAS been worth it. For someone who has a tendency to jump in head-first, it's been good for me, too.


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## TooNice

Hope Shimmers said:


> @TooNice - thank you! I need to go back through your posts because I can't remember how much younger he is than you. As long as you are at the same place in life, age doesn't matter.



He's 30, and I am 45. But he's a bit of an old soul, and I often get looks of shock when I tell people I have a kiddo in college, so I figure we balance out pretty well.


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## Ynot

FIP, thanks for the mention. I stopped following the old thread as well because there was too much going on. I wouldn't have found this one if you hadn't mentioned me. (Plus a month long ban because some one's tender emotions got all butt hurt over something I said)
I have had the same experience as you. I had a relationship that grew into something more involved sooner than I wanted. Too much time with her and not enough time for myself. I just got back from a three week cross country trip with an old buddy. Man I am so thankful to be free of him - haha! I love the guy but it was starting to grate on my last nerve! Anyways, I have realized that for the moment that all I really desire is sexual release. I don't mind engaging in the requisites that go along with sex (dinner, cuddling, hanging out etc) but I have no desire for the day in day out grind of having a relationship. Like many others, I don't see myself giving up all of my new found freedoms by putting all of my eggs into one basket by settling down with someone right now.


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## Hope Shimmers

FeministInPink said:


> @Hope Shimmers I had to kiss a lot of frogs to find him. And I've had to be VERY patient. He has a lot of baggage that would have had a lot of women calling it quits, and I almost did a few times... but I stuck it out because something was telling me that he was worth it. He was trying to keep me at arm's length for a long time, because he was scared; he needed to see that I was willing to stick it out, for him to trust me enough to start letting me in. So it's been slow going, but it HAS been worth it. For someone who has a tendency to jump in head-first, it's been good for me, too.


Very interesting. Like you, I too tend to jump in head first, and I am not known for my patience.  Kudos to you for putting in the effort; now you are reaping the benefits. If I'm being honest that's why I kept trying over and over again with my ex-bf, because I thought he needed to see that he could trust me, etc. But at some point I just had to admit that it wasn't about that - it was that he just didn't care.

How long have you two been together?



TooNice said:


> He's 30, and I am 45. But he's a bit of an old soul, and I often get looks of shock when I tell people I have a kiddo in college, so I figure we balance out pretty well.


Sounds like a good match.  Nice that you are taking it slow and are on the same page.



Ynot said:


> FIP, thanks for the mention. I stopped following the old thread as well because there was too much going on. I wouldn't have found this one if you hadn't mentioned me. (Plus a month long ban because some one's tender emotions got all butt hurt over something I said)
> I have had the same experience as you. I had a relationship that grew into something more involved sooner than I wanted. Too much time with her and not enough time for myself. I just got back from a three week cross country trip with an old buddy. Man I am so thankful to be free of him - haha! I love the guy but it was starting to grate on my last nerve! Anyways, I have realized that for the moment that all I really desire is sexual release. I don't mind engaging in the requisites that go along with sex (dinner, cuddling, hanging out etc) but I have no desire for the day in day out grind of having a relationship. Like many others, I don't see myself giving up all of my new found freedoms by putting all of my eggs into one basket by settling down with someone right now.


I don't know if it is a gender thing, a timing thing (I have been divorced since 2008), or just personal differences, but I want the relationship. I want the closeness. I just can't find it. 

I like my freedom too, though. But I'm willing to give that up for the right person (some of it, anyway). And marriage is still in the cards for me. I know some people have said they would never marry again, but I feel like I wouldn't feel close to someone who wasn't willing to marry me.

I'm curious if you ever see yourself being in a relationship again.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> FIP, thanks for the mention. I stopped following the old thread as well because there was too much going on. I wouldn't have found this one if you hadn't mentioned me. (Plus a month long ban because some one's tender emotions got all butt hurt over something I said)
> I have had the same experience as you. I had a relationship that grew into something more involved sooner than I wanted. Too much time with her and not enough time for myself. I just got back from a three week cross country trip with an old buddy. Man I am so thankful to be free of him - haha! I love the guy but it was starting to grate on my last nerve! Anyways, I have realized that for the moment that all I really desire is sexual release. I don't mind engaging in the requisites that go along with sex (dinner, cuddling, hanging out etc) but I have no desire for the day in day out grind of having a relationship. Like many others, I don't see myself giving up all of my new found freedoms by putting all of my eggs into one basket by settling down with someone right now.


Yes, the Singles thread can be hard to follow at times.

I would say my experience is slightly different... I (we) want to spend more time together than I have available. I would much rather be with him than doing laundry or grocery shopping, but it's sh!t that I have to do. I would much rather be with him than doing pretty much anything else.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> Very interesting. Like you, I too tend to jump in head first, and I am not known for my patience.  Kudos to you for putting in the effort; now you are reaping the benefits. If I'm being honest that's why I kept trying over and over again with my ex-bf, because I thought he needed to see that he could trust me, etc. But at some point I just had to admit that it wasn't about that - it was that he just didn't care.
> 
> How long have you two been together?


Everything about Real Estate says that he cares. Even though he was fighting it--he had been telling himself for the last 5+ years that he never wanted another girlfriend or a relationship, ever again, but everything about him was saying otherwise, but he didn't want to admit it. He still won't say that I'm his girlfriend/he's my boyfriend, but he's getting closer; we are in a relationship, we are "going out" (how he thinks that is different than "dating" I do not understand, but ok), and he's ok with me calling him my "partner."

We've been together about 10 months now. But Real Estate has decided to start rounding that up to a year, LOL 

Almost a year. Wow.


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> @Hope Shimmers I had to kiss a lot of frogs to find him. And I've had to be VERY patient. He has a lot of baggage that would have had a lot of women calling it quits, and I almost did a few times... but I stuck it out because something was telling me that he was worth it. He was trying to keep me at arm's length for a long time, because he was scared; he needed to see that I was willing to stick it out, for him to trust me enough to start letting me in. So it's been slow going, but it HAS been worth it. For someone who has a tendency to jump in head-first, it's been good for me, too.


Was he cheated on? Is that where his anxiety came from?


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> I like my freedom too, though. But I'm willing to give that up for the right person (some of it, anyway). And marriage is still in the cards for me. I know some people have said they would never marry again, but I feel like I wouldn't feel close to someone who wasn't willing to marry me.


I know this was directed @Ynot, but I wanted to touch on this. I LOVE the freedom that I have gained as a result of my divorce. I think because it was so hard-won. My former marriage/relationship stole much of my independence and my sense of self, so I would be very hard-pressed to give it up. Even so, I do want to get married again... but only if it's to the right guy. Someone who appreciates the things that make me me, and who encourages me to continue to pursue them, so that I won't feel consumed by the relationship, so that I won't lose my sense of self.

And I agree with what you say about not feeling close to someone who isn't willing to marry you... if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone, and he doesn't want to get married, our relationship will never live to its fullest potential, because to me that says that he will always have one foot out the door. And if that's the way he feels, why should I commit to him--if he's not willing to do the same?


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> Was he cheated on? Is that where his anxiety came from?


Yes. That is a very big part of it. And some FOO issues. But more so, his XW cheated on him, ran out on him with her AP to have the AP's baby, and stole his dog.

I realize that sounds like a country western song, LOL.


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Very interesting. Like you, I too tend to jump in head first, and I am not known for my patience.  Kudos to you for putting in the effort; now you are reaping the benefits. If I'm being honest that's why I kept trying over and over again with my ex-bf, because I thought he needed to see that he could trust me, etc. But at some point I just had to admit that it wasn't about that - it was that he just didn't care.
> 
> How long have you two been together?
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a good match.  Nice that you are taking it slow and are on the same page.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if it is a gender thing, a timing thing (I have been divorced since 2008), or just personal differences, but I want the relationship. I want the closeness. I just can't find it.
> 
> I like my freedom too, though. But I'm willing to give that up for the right person (some of it, anyway). And marriage is still in the cards for me. I know some people have said they would never marry again, but I feel like I wouldn't feel close to someone who wasn't willing to marry me.
> 
> I'm curious if you ever see yourself being in a relationship again.


Honestly this "feeling" is one which I only recently discovered within my self recently. After my divorce I craved a relationship. I realized that for the most part it was due to my fear of being alone. Yet I felt uncomfortable having sex once I was in a relationship. Some of that discomfort came from the lingering feeling that I was being unfaithful to the woman I had married (and who decided she wanted a divorce). Only recently have I realized it is from my conflating sex with love. I know I am not ready to love some one else yet. Mainly because I do not totally love myself yet. I am falling in love with me, but it is like peeling an onion. I am discovering new things about myself everyday. I don't want to short circuit the discovery process by settling for less than what I want (which I still haven't figure out). In the mean time the only way I am going to discover what I want is put myself out there to explore. This exploration involves much more than just sex, but sex is still an aspect of it. 
So as far as a relationship goes, for the moment I am only seeking a sexual relationship so that WE can mutually explore our sexualities. If something more comes of that I am not opposed to it. But right now I am not looking for it.
My sex life was pretty limited and vanilla both before and during my marriage. Now I am discovering that women actually enjoy and seek out sex themselves (believe me, this has been a revelation to me after my 24 year marriage). So exploring this aspect of myself while I still can is something that I want to do to further my development.
As for marriage, I don't ever see that happening ever again. There is simply no need for it at my age. I am never going to have another child and have no interest in inviting the state into my life again. Commitment is not predicated on a marriage.


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> I know this was directed @Ynot, but I wanted to touch on this. I LOVE the freedom that I have gained as a result of my divorce. I think because it was so hard-won. My former marriage/relationship stole much of my independence and my sense of self, so I would be very hard-pressed to give it up. Even so, I do want to get married again... but only if it's to the right guy. Someone who appreciates the things that make me me, and who encourages me to continue to pursue them, so that I won't feel consumed by the relationship, so that I won't lose my sense of self.
> 
> And I agree with what you say about not feeling close to someone who isn't willing to marry you... if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone, and he doesn't want to get married, our relationship will never live to its fullest potential, because to me that says that he will always have one foot out the door. And if that's the way he feels, why should I commit to him--if he's not willing to do the same?


Not being argumentative, but what does marriage have to do with commitment?
OTOH, one of the things I am not looking for right now is commitment. I guess I don't want the burden of living up to some one else's expectations.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Not being argumentative, but what does marriage have to do with commitment?
> OTOH, one of the things I am not looking for right now is commitment. I guess I don't want the burden of living up to some one else's expectations.


To me, marriage is the ultimate form of commitment that two people can make to one another. If I am married to you, I will do everything I can to make our marriage work; I will stick with you through thick and thin. I take my vows seriously. And if I ever get married again, the man I marry will have the same view of marriage. 

I know there are people here on TAM who will argue with me on this until the cows come home. But this is the way I feel.

ETA: If they love you for who you are, you will find that their expectations are easy to live up to.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Not being argumentative, but what does marriage have to do with commitment?
> OTOH, one of the things I am not looking for right now is commitment. I guess I don't want the burden of living up to some one else's expectations.


Marriage has EVERYTHING to do with commitment.

I understand what you said about only wanting a sexual relationship right now, especially as you are fresh out of a long-term marriage and finding out who you are as a single person instead of half of a couple.

Maybe that will change and maybe it won't, over time. 

I think that if you meet the right person someday, and you are ready, commitment and marriage may be on the table.

For me, a man who wants commitment and partnership with me will be willing and in fact will WANT NOTHING MORE than to be my husband. That means everything to me.


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## Hope Shimmers

FeministInPink said:


> ETA: If they love you for who you are, you will find that their expectations are easy to live up to.


Yes, and they won't be 'expectations' per se. It will be what you WANT to do for that person and with that person.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> ETA: If they love you for who you are, you will find that their expectations are easy to live up to.


Starting to see that with cuddlebunny, I'm signing away my income and every other woman I've dated since divorce would have been "What?! No!", but cuddlebunny, full support all the way. I'm officially enrolled for a 3 year course, applying for instructor license too for hang gliding. My new life awaits. I AM GOING TO LIVE!!! To hell with those who tell me otherwise! 

Probably won't see much wealth until 5 years time, but with cuddlebunny, I'm happy to share it with her, and instead of dumping her on V-day like what I did to my last materialistic gf, I am going on vacation with cuddlebunny for V day 

I'm going to be poor! I'm so happy!!! ^^


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## tripad

RandomDude said:


> FeministInPink said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's fancy, right? I figure I'll create a new one again, once this one reaches 1000 pages.
> 
> RD--how quickly did you gain this weight? 6 inches on your belt is quite a bit, especially if it was over a short amount of time. Has your activity level and/or your diet changed significantly in recent months?
> 
> I ask because the natural slow-down in metabolism usually results in a very gradual weight gain. From what I've read, and this applies to women, but I imagine it would be slightly similar for men, changing hormones and a slower metabolism should only result in an approximate weight gain of 25# over a DECADE.
> 
> I'm thinking you gained way too much weight, way too fast, and I think you should go see a doctor.
> 
> 
> 
> On November I went overseas with my daughter and ate ate ate, belt jumped 2 inches, after my bday, I dunno what happened, cause in 1 month, jumped 4 more inches. I was determined to put on weight, but it's normally a struggle to gain and maintain, now it's so easy, and I'm even sexier!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I get flirty or second looks from 25% of women walking past, now it's 75%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> 
> As long as I don't gain anymore in my belly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I start getting too fat, will see doctor, but I hope my metabolism is just "balancing" out, used to be so hypo!
Click to expand...

Fat cells multiply fast . It's cell division . Dont bother waiting . Do something now . Eat healthy n lesser n exercise .

We must continue to look gorgeous


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## Ynot

Hope and FIP, I guess I just think about commitment and marriage the same way I do God and religion. The second is based on the first, but the first really has no need for the second.. If two people are committed to each other, marriage does nothing to further that or enhance it. In fact, much like religion attempts to control one's relationship with God, marriage is an attempt by society and government to control one's relationship to their SO. In either case, I see no need to submit my self to the control and expectations of others. I can have a deeply personal (I would say stronger) relationship with God absent any religion, just as can have a deeply personal relationship with a woman outside of the confines of marriage.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Hope and FIP, I guess I just think about commitment and marriage the same way I do God and religion. The second is based on the first, but the first really has no need for the second.. If two people are committed to each other, marriage does nothing to further that or enhance it. In fact, much like religion attempts to control one's relationship with God, marriage is an attempt by society and government to control one's relationship to their SO. In either case, I see no need to submit my self to the control and expectations of others. I can have a deeply personal (I would say stronger) relationship with God absent any religion, just as can have a deeply personal relationship with a woman outside of the confines of marriage.




Well said. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> Yes. That is a very big part of it. And some FOO issues. But more so, his XW cheated on him, ran out on him with her AP to have the AP's baby, and stole his dog.
> 
> I realize that sounds like a country western song, LOL.


Actually sounds more like what happened to me except the baby part. Hard to trust after that for sure. I commend you for standing by and showing him that you aren't a bail when things get tough type. It means a lot to us who have been put through the ringer :smile2:


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## Hoosier

Ynot, you and I are the same person. I am totally broken when it comes to being married. 30 years of total committment to what end? Happy now, guarding my freedom with my life, willing/wanting to take another along for the ride, but not willing to put what amounts to legal chains on again.


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## GuyInColorado

I'd rather much call the girl I can't imagine my life without a wife than a girlfriend. I also want a fancy rock on her finger to let the world know she's mine and I'll do anything for her.

Going to get married on a cruise with just our kids, siblings, and parents. No minister, no church, no religion. If it doesn't work out, we split up everything and go our merry ways. I'm not scared to get married again.

Oh, the ring ships out Thursday! I'll have it by Friday. Trying to decide to propose this weekend or wait another week. Can't wait to make her officially mine.


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## Elizabeth001

GuyInColorado said:


> I'd rather much call the girl I can't imagine my life without a wife than a girlfriend. I also want a fancy rock on her finger to let the world know she's mine and I'll do anything for her.
> 
> Going to get married on a cruise with just our kids, siblings, and parents. No minister, no church, no religion. If it doesn't work out, we split up everything and go our merry ways. I'm not scared to get married again.
> 
> Oh, the ring ships out Thursday! I'll have it by Friday. Trying to decide to propose this weekend or wait another week. Can't wait to make her officially mine.




I was wondering how that was going. WOW!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bananapeel

I'm doing something stupid. The woman I broke up with in Nov has been trying to get ahold of me to talk. I've avoided it several times but finally agreed to meet with her on Thursday. I ended things with her because she wanted to push the relationship at a pace that I wasn't comfortable with and I explained that to her several times before the breakup. I know it's not going to be pleasant seeing her (I'll be prepared to leave quickly if things are too uncomfortable), but it seems like the right thing to do to help her get the closure she's missing.

Edit: I've been rethinking this and it's a really stupid idea. I'm going to text to cancel.


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> I am falling in love with me, but it is like peeling an onion. I am discovering new things about myself everyday. I don't want to short circuit the discovery process by settling for less than what I want (which I still haven't figure out). In the mean time the only way I am going to discover what I want is put myself out there to explore. This exploration involves much more than just sex, but sex is still an aspect of it.


This is perfect. And your self-realization of this has you far ahead of the game, IMO. Good for you!


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## 2&out

IMO someone who requires marriage for commitment isn't marriage material. Piece of paper to "prove" my commitment is b#llsh#t. I interpret it as a sign of mistrust.


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> Hope and FIP, I guess I just think about commitment and marriage the same way I do God and religion. The second is based on the first, but the first really has no need for the second.. If two people are committed to each other, marriage does nothing to further that or enhance it. In fact, much like religion attempts to control one's relationship with God, marriage is an attempt by society and government to control one's relationship to their SO. In either case, I see no need to submit my self to the control and expectations of others. I can have a deeply personal (I would say stronger) relationship with God absent any religion, just as can have a deeply personal relationship with a woman outside of the confines of marriage.


I respect every person's individual views on this, and appreciate that we have the opportunity to share them here. I would like to get married again one day. But that day is not in the foreseeable future for me. A very small part of that is the fact that I need the income from my divorce for several more years. I know that potentially sounds materialistic, but I would not be able to pay off my debt on my own income. 

A much, much larger factor is my experience. I stood before God, our families, and my husband. We committed to our marriage and to one another that we would be faithful and true; that we would love, honor and respect one another. I held to those promises with my entire heart. He broke every one of them, not just once, but many times, and without apology. Our so-called vows meant nothing to him. 

My views on God and religion have changed a great deal since then, but I do still believe in the commitment of marriage. But my views involve it being a true commitment to one another - nothing more. I absolutely want to find that again one day, but it has to be with a man who can be patient enough to understand what it will mean for me to be willing to open myself up like that again. 

In the end, what matters is that we find a person whose views align with our own - whether that involves marriage or not.


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> Actually sounds more like what happened to me except the baby part. Hard to trust after that for sure. I commend you for standing by and showing him that you aren't a bail when things get tough type. It means a lot to us who have been put through the ringer :smile2:


It hasn't been easy for me. I have trust issues and a fear of abandonment, and the fact that he was (in earlier stages) at odds with himself, telling himself and everyone else that he didn't want a girlfriend, didn't want a relationship, when all of his actions and behaviors betrayed him and made it obvious that he DID want a relationship, and that he DID want to be with me... he was fighting it SO HARD because he's crazy stubborn, and the fact that little ole' me was causing him to question what he had firmly believed about himself and his life for over 5 years. I realize now that he was probably having a difficult time dealing with that, and maybe he still does. But all of that freaked me out, and made me ask if I was wasting my time with him, if he was always going to be like this. Because, in my mind, it's **** yes or **** no. Either you want me, or you don't. We fought, and I "ran away" twice... because how was I supposed to stand by someone who didn't even know if he wanted me there?

It wasn't until after our second BIG fight and the second time that I "ran away," when we spoke about everything and why I ran away again, he made it clear that he's not looking for anyone else, and he's not going anywhere, and I can rely on him, but he's also not ready for a commitment (apparently, the bf/gf designation is SUPER serious in his mind)... and he told me he wanted me in his life, and he asked me to be patient with him (while he tried to work through and process his baggage), and to stay (not run away). That was what I needed from him, confirmation that he had no intention of going anywhere, and that he _wanted _me to stay. That was what I really needed, to know that I was actually WANTED and not just someone he was hanging out with because it was convenient. He made it clear that I am not wasting my time with him.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> That was what I really needed, to know that I was actually WANTED and not just someone he was hanging out with because it was convenient. He made it clear that I am not wasting my time with him.


FIP, I truly have been so happy for you as you and RE have moved through this process. I know it was hard during those times you had to work through, but you give hope that it is indeed worth the work. I agree with you whole-heartedly about "fvck ys or fvck no", but it's not quite that simple, is it? Thanks for sharing and for being your honest self.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

GuyInColorado said:


> I'd rather much call the girl I can't imagine my life without a wife than a girlfriend. I also want a fancy rock on her finger to let the world know she's mine and I'll do anything for her.
> 
> Going to get married on a cruise with just our kids, siblings, and parents. No minister, no church, no religion. If it doesn't work out, we split up everything and go our merry ways. I'm not scared to get married again.
> 
> Oh, the ring ships out Thursday! I'll have it by Friday. Trying to decide to propose this weekend or wait another week. Can't wait to make her officially mine.


You should wait another year....seriously....


----------



## GuyInColorado

3Xnocharm said:


> You should wait another year....seriously....


It will be another year before we're married. If you don't know within 12 months, then you move on. If you aren't telling your SO you love her and don't see you being in an exclusive relationship after a year, move on. If you need years to make up your mind, there are some deep issues. Life is short, play hard and have fun. That's what we're doing. With kids involved, there needs to be a commitment before moving everyone to a new house, new schools, new routine, etc. If no kids involved, I get never getting married. There's less at stake if the couple decides to move on. But a lot of states have common law, so you're treated as a married couple after 7 years anyways. That's my take.


----------



## ne9907

@HopeShimmers
Sometimes I feel addicted to emotional pain because that is all I have ever known. If a partner was not hurting me emotionally, I wasn't well. Could this be the case with you??

Your ex boyfriend has told you many many many times he doesn't want you. Please love, stop the insanity!!!

I have a story for you, I don't even know if this well aid you or not:

I dated a guy from the beginning of 2015 until the very end (NYE 2016). Even after we broke up, I would call him my friend and go over his place to have sex and hang out. He is a good friend still. He was a bad boyfriend. Sometime last year, we had talked about stopping our casual sex, hanging out, but we never did. I would always go to his place, he never visited me. 

Last year, around Christmas time, I told him I was stopping by to see him. He said he wanted to stop this sex thing we had going on. I respected his wishes and stopped talking to him.

Two weeks ago, he called me out of the blue, he said he missed me. He also disclosed to me that the reason he had asked for us to stop sleeping with each other was because he had dinner and drinks with his ex wife (relationship ended five years ago). I was so hurt. Even though we are not a couple, I felt betrayed! My feelings were rather emotional. 
One thing you have to realize is that although we were not together, I love him and he loves me too. He told me the reason he had dinner with ex wife was to get closure.... I felt even worse. I felt as if everything that we had was a farce. He didn't see it that way.

He now wants to come see me. I do not want to see him. I am not longer hurt, but want nothing to do with him. I did not want a serious relationship with him from the beginning yet FOOLED myself into thinking he could be the one. He is a great person and perhaps another woman will love him. I wanted him as a back up plan. I wanted him in case my world crashed down and I had to find a place to stay.... 

I was addicted to his neglectful ways, his constant messaging other women, his over all laziness towards our relationship, and his d!ck, well... Look at you Hope. Find out what it is about this ex boyfriend that keeps you going back to him. 
@TooNice How long have you guys been seeing each other. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on the sex part. Also, I had an experience with a guy who wanted to wait to have sex because he had HPV. I seriously hope this, or something similar, is not the case in your situation. A 30 year old male is typically sexual all the time. Could he be with you because he knows your sexual appetite is not as high as a younger woman? I am sorry if I sound rude but these are questions you must ask yourself before you fully commit yourself to him.

*** I do not believe in marriage.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

2&out said:


> IMO someone who requires marriage for commitment isn't marriage material. Piece of paper to "prove" my commitment is b#llsh#t. I interpret it as a sign of mistrust.


I certainly never said I "require" marriage for commitment. I believe in commitment to my partner as soon as we both decide to be exclusive. 

Has nothing to do with a piece of paper to "prove" anything. We all know too well that a piece of paper isn't going to make anyone commit or make them be faithful if they don't want to. But I still view marriage less as a legal agreement (although I know it is) and more of a romantic, family notion. If someone is afraid to marry me, I interpret that as a sign of mistrust.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

ne9907 said:


> @HopeShimmers
> Sometimes I feel addicted to emotional pain because that is all I have ever known. If a partner was not hurting me emotionally, I wasn't well. Could this be the case with you??
> 
> Your ex boyfriend has told you many many many times he doesn't want you. Please love, stop the insanity!!!
> 
> I have a story for you, I don't even know if this well aid you or not:
> 
> I dated a guy from the beginning of 2015 until the very end (NYE 2016). Even after we broke up, I would call him my friend and go over his place to have sex and hang out. He is a good friend still. He was a bad boyfriend. Sometime last year, we had talked about stopping our casual sex, hanging out, but we never did. I would always go to his place, he never visited me.
> 
> Last year, around Christmas time, I told him I was stopping by to see him. He said he wanted to stop this sex thing we had going on. I respected his wishes and stopped talking to him.
> 
> Two weeks ago, he called me out of the blue, he said he missed me. He also disclosed to me that the reason he had asked for us to stop sleeping with each other was because he had dinner and drinks with his ex wife (relationship ended five years ago). I was so hurt. Even though we are not a couple, I felt betrayed! My feelings were rather emotional.
> One thing you have to realize is that although we were not together, I love him and he loves me too. He told me the reason he had dinner with ex wife was to get closure.... I felt even worse. I felt as if everything that we had was a farce. He didn't see it that way.
> 
> He now wants to come see me. I do not want to see him. I am not longer hurt, but want nothing to do with him. I did not want a serious relationship with him from the beginning yet FOOLED myself into thinking he could be the one. He is a great person and perhaps another woman will love him. I wanted him as a back up plan. I wanted him in case my world crashed down and I had to find a place to stay....
> 
> I was addicted to his neglectful ways, his constant messaging other women, his over all laziness towards our relationship, and his d!ck, well... Look at you Hope. Find out what it is about this ex boyfriend that keeps you going back to him.
> 
> @TooNice How long have you guys been seeing each other. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on the sex part. Also, I had an experience with a guy who wanted to wait to have sex because he had HPV. I seriously hope this, or something similar, is not the case in your situation. A 30 year old male is typically sexual all the time. Could he be with you because he knows your sexual appetite is not as high as a younger woman? I am sorry if I sound rude but these are questions you must ask yourself before you fully commit yourself to him.
> 
> *** I do not believe in marriage.


Yes, he has told me many times he does not want me. In words and in actions.

I think the reason I kept going back is that part of me wondered whether he did indeed care, but was holding back for other reasons. Things he blamed on me. I kept thinking if I could fix them, it could work.

I was not given a chance to fix anything this last time around, not really. I do believe now that he truly doesn't care, that there was nothing I could have done. If that were not true, he would not be acting the way he is. It's just a fact and I accept it. Finally.

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry for what you went through with your ex. That must have been really difficult.


----------



## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> He now wants to come see me. I do not want to see him. I am not longer hurt, but want nothing to do with him. I did not want a serious relationship with him from the beginning yet FOOLED myself into thinking he could be the one. He is a great person and perhaps another woman will love him. I wanted him as a back up plan. I wanted him in case my world crashed down and I had to find a place to stay....
> 
> I was addicted to his neglectful ways, his constant messaging other women, his over all laziness towards our relationship, and his d!ck, well... Look at you Hope. Find out what it is about this ex boyfriend that keeps you going back to him.
> 
> @TooNice How long have you guys been seeing each other. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on the sex part. Also, I had an experience with a guy who wanted to wait to have sex because he had HPV. I seriously hope this, or something similar, is not the case in your situation. A 30 year old male is typically sexual all the time. Could he be with you because he knows your sexual appetite is not as high as a younger woman? I am sorry if I sound rude but these are questions you must ask yourself before you fully commit yourself to him.


Ne, you have grown much since you were with him. Like Hope, you deserve more. <3

I only met the man I am seeing at Thanksgiving, and I'd say we got serious about seeing each other about three weeks ago. We have a very strong physical attraction, and until we talked, I did wonder a little if more was going on. He really has been burned badly, and I meant it when I said he is an old soul. He's a bit of a romantic, and it made sense to me when he told me that he thinks sex makes things complicated. I've said that myself in other relationships, but it's the dating norm for so many people now. It's early for us, so I am happy to enjoy what we have had together so far. 

And to be honest, my appetite is higher than it has been at any other point in my life, so... when we are ready, that will not be a concern - lol.


----------



## browser

GuyInColorado said:


> If you don't know within 12 months, then you move on.


I disagree that you only need one year to be sure that you want to spend the rest of your life with a person. Sometimes 10 years isn't even enough. People aren't always honest, even with themselves. Bad habits sometimes don't show up right away, and people with drug/gambling/spending/sex addictions are very good at hiding it. A year is NOTHING.




GuyInColorado said:


> If you aren't telling your SO you love her and don't see you being in an exclusive relationship after a year, move on.


This makes a bit more sense than the rest of your post. If you're not feeling it by a year, then there may be some problems and it just might be worth considering cutting the cord in favor of finding someone with whom you click better. That does NOT mean if you DO feel it by 12 months you should go shopping for rings.



GuyInColorado said:


> If you need years to make up your mind, there are some deep issues.


Speaking from my own experience. I don't need years to make up my mind to get married again. I made the decision never to get married again when I got divorced the one and only time in my life. Unlike others such as yourself, I have the capacity to learn from my mistakes so I will not be destined to repeat them. 



GuyInColorado said:


> Life is short, play hard and have fun. That's what we're doing.


You sound like a teenage kid who jumps across the tracks in front of a train just for the thrill.



GuyInColorado said:


> But a lot of states have common law, so you're treated as a married couple after 7 years anyways.


I did a quick search, it appears that only 15 states out of 50 recognize common law. Even in those states common law marriage is not necessarily treated the same way as an "official" legal marriage. So your statement that "lots" of states have it so you might as well get married anyway is nonsense. Even if it was "most" states and even if common law marriages were treated the same way in a legal sense as traditional marriages, you've got the better part of 7 years to go your separate ways if things don't work out.

Sorry @GuyInColorado I don't agree with your perspective on marriage at all and I think you're making a huge mistake jumping in so quickly a second time. The reasons you give for doing so are completely without merit, logic, or common sense.


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> Ne, you have grown much since you were with him. Like Hope, you deserve more. <3
> 
> 
> 
> I only met the man I am seeing at Thanksgiving, and I'd say we got serious about seeing each other about three weeks ago. We have a very strong physical attraction, and until we talked, I did wonder a little if more was going on. He really has been burned badly, and I meant it when I said he is an old soul. He's a bit of a romantic, and it made sense to me when he told me that he thinks sex makes things complicated. I've said that myself in other relationships, but it's the dating norm for so many people now. It's early for us, so I am happy to enjoy what we have had together so far.
> 
> 
> 
> And to be honest, my appetite is higher than it has been at any other point in my life, so... when we are ready, that will not be a concern - lol.




Be careful not to fall into a sexless relationship. I hope there is some heat there 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Be careful not to fall into a sexless relationship. I hope there is some heat there


There most definitely is. I would be far more concerned if that wasn't the case!


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## FeministInPink

browser said:


> I disagree that you only need one year to be sure that you want to spend the rest of your life with a person. Sometimes 10 years isn't even enough. People aren't always honest, even with themselves. Bad habits sometimes don't show up right away, and people with drug/gambling/spending/sex addictions are very good at hiding it. A year is NOTHING.
> 
> This makes a bit more sense than the rest of your post. If you're not feeling it by a year, then there may be some problems and it just might be worth considering cutting the cord in favor of finding someone with whom you click better. That does NOT mean if you DO feel it by 12 months you should go shopping for rings.
> 
> Speaking from my own experience. I don't need years to make up my mind to get married again. I made the decision never to get married again when I got divorced the one and only time in my life. Unlike others such as yourself, I have the capacity to learn from my mistakes so I will not be destined to repeat them.
> 
> You sound like a teenage kid who jumps across the tracks in front of a train just for the thrill.
> 
> I did a quick search, it appears that only 15 states out of 50 recognize common law. Even in those states common law marriage is not necessarily treated the same way as an "official" legal marriage. So your statement that "lots" of states have it so you might as well get married anyway is nonsense. Even if it was "most" states and even if common law marriages were treated the same way in a legal sense as traditional marriages, you've got the better part of 7 years to go your separate ways if things don't work out.
> *
> Sorry @GuyInColorado I don't agree with your perspective on marriage at all and I think you're making a huge mistake jumping in so quickly a second time. The reasons you give for doing so are completely without merit, logic, or common sense.*


You're obviously new here 

You may wish to save your breath. The rest of us gave up a while ago.


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## FeministInPink

Just decided to take a telework day tomorrow, which means a sleepover tonight and then lunch tomorrow with Real Estate. Yay!


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## 3Xnocharm

browser said:


> Sorry @GuyInColorado I don't agree with your perspective on marriage at all and I think you're making a huge mistake jumping in so quickly a second time. The reasons you give for doing so are completely without merit, logic, or common sense.


I have to agree, right now Guy is in the heady, obsessive throes of new love and blinded by all the sex he is currently getting. We all know this part doesnt last, he needs to hold off til things become more realistic for day to day life before making that commitment again. I made the biggest mistake of my life by letting myself get talked into marriage after a very stupidly short time with that person.


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## ne9907

@Hope Shimmers

This is for you:


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## bkyln309

7 pages on the new thread already? Wow! Work is so busy I dont get much time here. 

Marriage and committment: Marriage is the ultimate commitment because you are putting everything you have in --relationship, finances, kids etc. The piece of paper legally binds you to that person. The good and the bad (debt etc). 

So to say the piece of paper means nothing is NOT accurate. It means alot more than a person whom you just live with who is not your spouse. You can walk out the door in most cases without further ramifications. 

You can choose not to marry for whatever reason you choose. Most the time I think it comes from people who have been hurt and have not been healed. But I do know plenty that have decided not to risk any more than they did previously. It certainly is a safe way to go. But I think if you find the right person, most people will want to marry and toss the safety out the window. Some will not and will find a partner happy with that arrangement.
I always say NEVER say never. If the right person appears, I will re-marry. Otherwise I will do my best at raising my kids and having a full life. I assume I will have partners if I do not re-marry. But I will not go long term with someone who is not making the mark to marry. So I can have a partner that is fine for the moment. I know that its temporary. I also know I dont want to be married to them. It will end up a relationship for a season. It will not be years long with no legal committment.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> 7 pages on the new thread already? Wow! Work is so busy I dont get much time here.
> 
> Marriage and committment: Marriage is the ultimate commitment because you are putting everything you have in --relationship, finances, kids etc. The piece of piece legally binds you to that person. The good and the bad (debt etc).
> 
> So to say the piece of paper means nothing is NOT accurate. It means alot more than a person whom you just live with who is not your spouse. You can walk out the door in most cases without further ramifications.
> 
> You can choose not to marry for whatever reason you choose. Most the time I think it comes from people who have been hurt and have not been healed. But I do know plenty that have decided not to risk any more than they did previously. It certainly is a safe way to go. But I think if you find the right person, most people will want to marry and toss the safety out the window. Some will not and will find a partner happy with that arrangement.
> I always say NEVER say never. If the right person appears, I will re-marry. Otherwise I will do my best at raising my kids and having a full life. I assume I will have partners if I do not re-marry, but I will not go long term with someone who I say I will not marry. So I can have a partner that is fine for the moment and I know that but I also know I dont want to be married to them. It will end up a relationship for a season.


Love this post!!! YES!!! QFT!!!


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## 3Xnocharm

After having 3 failed marriages under my belt, I honestly dont care if it never happens again. I went ALL IN 3 different times, only to have them all not work. At this point, I just want someone who WANTS me, loves me, is faithful, and always has my back. THAT is what is important to me at this time in my life. I wont say I would never marry again, but it just is not a priority for me now.


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## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> After having 3 failed marriages under my belt, I honestly dont care if it never happens again. I went ALL IN 3 different times, only to have them all not work. At this point, I just want someone who WANTS me, loves me, is faithful, and always has my back. THAT is what is important to me at this time in my life. I wont say I would never marry again, but it just is not a priority for me now.




5 for me. I quit. It's not my bag obviously. lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

One and done for me! I honestly don't see it (marriage) happening again. I simply don't understand the need for a marriage to prove commitment. As I said, marriage is to commitment as religion is to God. And I can honestly say, I can say I know God exists, which is more than most religious folks who (at best) can only say they believe God exists.


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## RandomDude

Cuddlebunny showed me a photo with her with makeup (she's a natural beauty and already 8/10 in my scale)... and... :surprise: *SUPER HOT!* easily at least *15*/10!! I've never seen such a stunner in YEARS, and I see stunners all the time! Yet all this time and she never dressed up like that for me. I haven't been able to take my eyes off the photo all day, and she wasn't happy with me when I proposed she should dress up like that.

*sigh* Wimmen -.-


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Cuddlebunny showed me a photo with her with makeup (she's a natural beauty and already 8/10 in my scale)... and... :surprise: *SUPER HOT!* easily at least *15*/10!! I've never seen such a stunner in YEARS, and I see stunners all the time! Yet all this time and she never dressed up like that for me. I haven't been able to take my eyes off the photo all day, and she wasn't happy with me when I proposed she should dress up like that.
> 
> *sigh* Wimmen -.-


Sigh... oh, RD. 

We ALL look better with makeup on. That's why it's consistently such a booming industry!

Just one female perspective here:
I stopped wearing makeup this past spring, and was surprised at how liberating it has been for me. It sparked some great conversations, with both men and women in my life about societal expectations and self-image. I have one friend who said she will never stop wearing makeup, because when she spends that time looking in the mirror each day, she sees the features she shares with her sister and their deceased mom. She treasures that time feeling close to them. I told her that is a beautiful reason to wear makeup, and love that she does it for herself. Every other friend has either stopped wearing it herself, or can't - because she feels she can't be seen without it.

I realized that I have never worn it for me. From the age of 13, I wore makeup because I thought I was supposed to. Heaven forbid I should let anyone see me without my "face" on. Not wearing makeup has taught me that I am beautiful because I am a good person - not because I have mascara on. And I have learned that many men prefer women without makeup. They want to see their true beauty. I have even given presentations and gone on first dates without makeup on. And gotten second dates - lol!

Now, I have started wearing a little bit again - sometimes. But it's because I want to, not because anyone expects me to. It's boosted my self-confidence in ways that wearing it never did. Anyway - just a different point of view for you to consider, RD.

My final and most important point for you: You know those "tests" you run women through when you are dating? Don't be surprised if this is a test that Cuddlebunny has. And you are not scoring well by reacting like that.


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## Hope Shimmers

ne9907 said:


> @Hope Shimmers
> 
> This is for you:


Thanks for this, @ne9907

I have been so stupid, waiting around for a man who gives not one sh&t about me. 

What's funny about your analogy is that my house was hit by lightning and burned in late 2013. That will be the first and last time.

It is way past time to move on. I like how 2017 looks. For ME. 

Funny story.... I belonged to a dance group (about 100 people, rock and hip-hop mainly) a few years ago. We have done a lot of street dances and also indoors. I haven't participated in the last couple of years, but I hung out with a few of the group today just to catch up. We were at the post office of all places (a few of us including me had to mail some ebay packages), and the line was held up with probably 30 people ahead of us. 

Some random person in line started playing "Tainted Love" by Soft Cell on their phone. That's a song we choreographed and performed about 7 years ago. Actually we mainly did the "Where Did Our Love Go" version (if anyone is old enough to know this except me - hey, we had age 20s and 30s in our dance group!) and when that started to play, we put the packages down, crossed the rope to the open area, and started dancing and singing to the song as we had choreographed those years ago. Several people took iPhone videos so maybe it will show up someday. We got a standing ovation (of course everyone was standing anyway, lol). But it was so FUN. 

I need my life back. I am so sad that the ex did not believe in us - did not believe in me. I am sad that he turned down the opportunity for the life he said he wanted with me. But it is what it is. 

There is always something new on the horizon.


----------



## 2&out

Twice for me and both times pretty much wrecked the good life I had. Not interested in doing that again. I'm now in my 50's so no more kids in my plans which would be about the only reason I'd consider it. I'm only looking to have some fun and someone to do things with, which since my second divorce 8 years ago hasn't been especially difficult for me to find. My crappy "I don't deeply care if you like me or not - I'll just find someone else to play with" attitude for some bizaar reason doesn't seem to reduce my playing field all that much so far. Want to have some fun ? Lets give it a go. Want lots of deep meaningful heavy "our future" relationship stuff ? Uhg - See ya !


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## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> Sigh... oh, RD.
> 
> We ALL look better with makeup on. That's why it's consistently such a booming industry!
> 
> Just one female perspective here:
> I stopped wearing makeup this past spring, and was surprised at how liberating it has been for me. It sparked some great conversations, with both men and women in my life about societal expectations and self-image. I have one friend who said she will never stop wearing makeup, because when she spends that time looking in the mirror each day, she sees the features she shares with her sister and their deceased mom. She treasures that time feeling close to them. I told her that is a beautiful reason to wear makeup, and love that she does it for herself. Every other friend has either stopped wearing it herself, or can't - because she feels she can't be seen without it.
> 
> I realized that I have never worn it for me. From the age of 13, I wore makeup because I thought I was supposed to. Heaven forbid I should let anyone see me without my "face" on. Not wearing makeup has taught me that I am beautiful because I am a good person - not because I have mascara on. And I have learned that many men prefer women without makeup. They want to see their true beauty. I have even given presentations and gone on first dates without makeup on. And gotten second dates - lol!
> 
> Now, I have started wearing a little bit again - sometimes. But it's because I want to, not because anyone expects me to. It's boosted my self-confidence in ways that wearing it never did. Anyway - just a different point of view for you to consider, RD.
> 
> My final and most important point for you: You know those "tests" you run women through when you are dating? Don't be surprised if this is a test that Cuddlebunny has. And you are not scoring well by reacting like that.


Cuddlebunny is a natural beauty for me, she doesn't see it for some reason (or is just humble) but I find her absolutely gorgeous. All I mentioned was that when she's already so gorgeous to me, and then when she wears the right makeup... then its...







struck dead as if she's a goddess! 

I told her I don't need her with makeup, and I prefer it if she's natural most of the time, besides I want her to be comfortable and not to mention makeup can take a while to get rid of which is an inconvenience after sex. Besides I chose her over all other women when she wore no make-up and she still doesn't. That's the thing, I'm so jealous other people could lay their eyes on her with makeup and she dressed up for them but so far not for me 

Thats all I said! But she took it the wrong way... she's ok now, after much explanation but 

I'm so jealous!


----------



## anewstart60

bkyln309 said:


> 7 pages on the new thread already? Wow! Work is so busy I dont get much time here.
> 
> Marriage and committment: Marriage is the ultimate commitment because you are putting everything you have in --relationship, finances, kids etc. The piece of paper legally binds you to that person. The good and the bad (debt etc).
> 
> So to say the piece of paper means nothing is NOT accurate. It means alot more than a person whom you just live with who is not your spouse. You can walk out the door in most cases without further ramifications.
> 
> Would you rather have someone be with you that only stays because of the legalities of marriage but would rather not be there or would you rather have someone be with you but can walk at any time without penalty but chooses to stay because thats what they want?
> 
> You can choose not to marry for whatever reason you choose. Most the time I think it comes from people who have been hurt and have not been healed. But I do know plenty that have decided not to risk any more than they did previously. It certainly is a safe way to go. But I think if you find the right person, most people will want to marry and toss the safety out the window. Some will not and will find a partner happy with that arrangement.
> I always say NEVER say never. If the right person appears, I will re-marry. Otherwise I will do my best at raising my kids and having a full life. I assume I will have partners if I do not re-marry. But I will not go long term with someone who is not making the mark to marry. So I can have a partner that is fine for the moment. I know that its temporary. I also know I dont want to be married to them. It will end up a relationship for a season. It will not be years long with no legal committment.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Cuddlebunny is a natural beauty for me, she doesn't see it for some reason (or is just humble) but I find her absolutely gorgeous. All I mentioned was that when she's already so gorgeous to me, and then when she wears the right makeup... then its...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> struck dead as if she's a goddess!
> 
> I told her I don't need her with makeup, and I prefer it if she's natural most of the time, besides I want her to be comfortable and not to mention makeup can take a while to get rid of which is an inconvenience after sex. Besides I chose her over all other women when she wore no make-up and she still doesn't. That's the thing, I'm so jealous other people could lay their eyes on her with makeup and she dressed up for them but so far not for me
> 
> Thats all I said! But she took it the wrong way... she's ok now, after much explanation but
> 
> I'm so jealous!


RD, so I don't know Cuddlebunny, obviously. But if, in her past, if she's always perceived that other people value her most for her beauty (or only value her for her beauty), it may bother her that you're emphasizing it so much. Especially if she feels that she's finally found in you someone who values her for HER (her personality, her character, her brain) rather than her beauty.

Beautiful women (most of them, anyway) know they are beautiful, and unless they are insecure, they get tired of hearing it, because it's always the first thing that people notice about them and comment on. Complement her on other things. Pay attention to what types of compliments really make her light up, and do more of those. Show her you value her for more than just her looks.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> RD, so I don't know Cuddlebunny, obviously. But if, in her past, if she's always perceived that other people value her most for her beauty (or only value her for her beauty), it may bother her that you're emphasizing it so much. Especially if she feels that she's finally found in you someone who values her for HER (her personality, her character, her brain) rather than her beauty.
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful women (most of them, anyway) know they are beautiful, and unless they are insecure, they get tired of hearing it, because it's always the first thing that people notice about them and comment on. Complement her on other things. Pay attention to what types of compliments really make her light up, and do more of those. Show her you value her for more than just her looks.




I am constantly having this problem in my current dating ventures. It's quite frustrating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I am constantly having this problem in my current dating ventures. It's quite frustrating.


I think part of it is that men are so visually focused (in some cases) that when they encounter a beautiful woman, that's all they focus on. Like they forget that there's an actual person with a brain inside that physical body. For some men, that physical appearance is the absolute most important thing in a mate, and so they don't necessarily know how to engage a woman on a more cerebral level.

Real Estate has a rule that he only dates smart women (one of the reasons he's so into me!), because he wants someone he can talk to and have interesting conversation, so he engaged with me on a more intellectual level from the very beginning. Real Estate is also quite smart, so that's only natural, but he actually LIKES women who are smarter than he is. It takes a person who is confident in himself and his own abilities to appreciate someone who may supersede him in certain areas--some men lack this confidence or are overly competitive, so they can't handle someone who may be "more than" him in certain areas.

Real Estate has only commented on my physical appearance maybe a handful of times, because he knows that flattering my physical appearance isn't what will win me over. He's a smart man, and I think sometimes he doesn't give himself enough credit. I know he finds me attractive, I don't need him to tell me that, even though the occasional compliment on my appearance is always welcomed. If I ask him, "How do I look?" he knows that is his cue to say something nice about my appearance. But typically, just the way he looks at me is more than enough. A man won't spend time with and invest in a woman he doesn't find attractive, plain and simple. Women who are secure in their appearance and attractiveness know that, and don't need constant affirmation in the form of compliments. A lot of men don't understand that.


----------



## bkyln309

My dad and mom had a long happy marriage. I asked him about marriage. He said its about companionship. 

But my favorite advice he gave was this: He said dont marry someone for their looks. Because everyone gets old and gets ugly. And if the only thing you had was looks, all you have left when you get old is ugly. (Better have friendship and character)

My dad was big on the character of the man. I should have known better and not married my ex. He was never a fan!!!


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> I think part of it is that men are so visually focused (in some cases) that when they encounter a beautiful woman, that's all they focus on. Like they forget that there's an actual person with a brain inside that physical body. For some men, that physical appearance is the absolute most important thing in a mate, and so they don't necessarily know how to engage a woman on a more cerebral level.
> 
> Real Estate has a rule that he only dates smart women (one of the reasons he's so into me!), because he wants someone he can talk to and have interesting conversation, so he engaged with me on a more intellectual level from the very beginning. Real Estate is also quite smart, so that's only natural, but he actually LIKES women who are smarter than he is. It takes a person who is confident in himself and his own abilities to appreciate someone who may supersede him in certain areas--some men lack this confidence or are overly competitive, so they can't handle someone who may be "more than" him in certain areas.
> 
> Real Estate has only commented on my physical appearance maybe a handful of times, because he knows that flattering my physical appearance isn't what will win me over. He's a smart man, and I think sometimes he doesn't give himself enough credit. I know he finds me attractive, I don't need him to tell me that, even though the occasional compliment on my appearance is always welcomed. If I ask him, "How do I look?" he knows that is his cue to say something nice about my appearance. But typically, just the way he looks at me is more than enough. A man won't spend time with and invest in a woman he doesn't find attractive, plain and simple. Women who are secure in their appearance and attractiveness know that, and don't need constant affirmation in the form of compliments. A lot of men don't understand that.


Its funny because SMART is at the top of my list. I simply cannot be with someone who is not above me in intelligence. Smart men are so sexy!


----------



## Ynot

My IQ is 145 (haha!)


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## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> My IQ is 145 (haha!)



hot stuff!! LOL.


----------



## ne9907

I do not look better with make up on!


----------



## 2&out

Ynot - it's just a fact we Ohio people are smart.


----------



## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Its funny because SMART is at the top of my list. I simply cannot be with someone who is not above me in intelligence. Smart men are so sexy!


I agree!!! Smart is very important, but they also have to have a kind heart. Smart+arrogance is the WORST.

For those of you who have been on the thread for a long time, you remember Fireman! (For newer folks, he was a guy I dated in summer '14, the first guy I dated since the divorce.) He was smokin' hot and he was really sweet, but boy, was he dumb. Couldn't have a decent convo with him to save my life. He was fun for a little while, but I later realized that there was no way it could have worked long term. (He ghosted me after 6 or 7 weeks, so I never got the chance to make that determination.)

But speaking of the way some men react when they encounter a beautiful woman... on our first date, he was really quiet, and I didn't think he liked me at all.  After a few drinks and a little food, he asked me if I would like to go get some ice cream, and then go for a walk. He made a comment about wanting to hold my hand and kiss me, but his hands were sticky... I responded, I didn't think you really liked me, you barely said anything for the first two hours! And he said, I was nervous! And I asked, why were you nervous, mr studly fireman? He replied, you're really pretty, of course I was nervous! It was a very sweet moment. I hope he finds a girl that appreciates him and can take care of him, even if he was a d!ck who ghosted me. (He had some other issues...)


----------



## Ynot

2&out said:


> Ynot - it's just a fact we Ohio people are smart.


That explains my ex, then. She was from Michigan haha


----------



## 2&out

Holy sh*t - me too !! LOL Guess we aren't *that* smart ! - at least not me. Proof that even with a masters from Cal Tech it's possible to dumb as hell. lol.


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## GuyInColorado

Ha, my ex was from Michigan too.


----------



## Ynot

2&out said:


> Holy sh*t - me too !! LOL Guess we aren't *that* smart ! - at least not me. Proof that even with a masters from Cal Tech it's possible to dumb as hell. lol.


Hey, making mistakes is what life is all about. Live and learn haha


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> RD, so I don't know Cuddlebunny, obviously. But if, in her past, if she's always perceived that other people value her most for her beauty (or only value her for her beauty), it may bother her that you're emphasizing it so much. Especially if she feels that she's finally found in you someone who values her for HER (her personality, her character, her brain) rather than her beauty.
> 
> Beautiful women (most of them, anyway) know they are beautiful, and unless they are insecure, they get tired of hearing it, because it's always the first thing that people notice about them and comment on. Complement her on other things. Pay attention to what types of compliments really make her light up, and do more of those. Show her you value her for more than just her looks.


I only emphasised it bc she was upset that I told her she looked great when wearing makeup! 

In other words I was kissing her ass over the misunderstanding that I liked her only with makeup, yet after 6 months it was the first time I've seen her with makeup and it was a photo!


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> I only emphasised it bc she was upset that I told her she looked great when wearing makeup!
> 
> In other words I was kissing her ass over the misunderstanding that I liked her only with makeup, yet after 6 months it was the first time I've seen her with makeup and it was a photo!


Here's the secret: always tell a woman she looks better without makeup. Granted, she may never wear makeup again...


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Here's the secret: always tell a woman she looks better without makeup. Granted, she may never wear makeup again...




I think my personality changes when I wear makeup. Like I'm putting on a show. I like me better without it and self-confidence = true beauty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheGoodGuy

Woohoo! A new 'coolest people of TAM' thread! Are we still discussing hats? I'm no longer single and have chosen my hat, but I may drop in from time to time. ;-)


----------



## FeministInPink

TheGoodGuy said:


> Woohoo! A new 'coolest people of TAM' thread! Are we still discussing hats? I'm no longer single and have chosen my hat, but I may drop in from time to time. ;-)


I think we stopped using the "hat" derivative, but yes! I'm not really single anymore, either, but I'm still obviously here!


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## Hope Shimmers

Well, I'm single and I'm wearing a dunce hat. :banghead:


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> Well, I'm single and I'm wearing a dunce hat. :banghead:


On the old thread, when a poster was dating someone, they would chose a notable characteristic and combine it with "hat" to give the person a moniker we would use on the thread. So, if I was dating a fireman, I might call him "Fireman-hat." Eventually, the -hat part of the naming convention fell out of use, and we just started making up names. So I call my guy Real Estate (he works in real estate), and I previously dated Fireman and J-Dawg, among others; @bklyn309 is/was dating Older Man, or OM for short, who is, well significantly older than bklyn (any update on that, bklyn?), and before that someone nicknamed Chemistry Man; @ne9907 dated a guy nicknamed Navy back in the day; an old poster who doesn't come around anymore was dating a woman he nicknamed Bleacher because she was a little OCD when it came to cleaning (she liked to bleach everything, but she sounded like a great gal otherwise); there was another poster (also long gone, sadly) who dated a woman he dubbed Guitar Girl because she would play her guitar at open mic nights and stuff (you guys remember @Healer? I miss his posts).


----------



## ne9907

I miss @anotherplanet

Was that his name??

damn... I had forgotten about navy guy. All the guys I have dated are douches..... I have dated A LOT of men... perhaps "dated" is an exaggeration, I have fvcked a lot of men is more realistic.

I am feeling all out of sorts, work is stressful, my personal life is stressful, I am sad and overworked and stressed out and have nobody to blame but me.... ugh...


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> I miss @anotherplanet
> 
> Was that his name??
> 
> damn... I had forgotten about navy guy. All the guys I have dated are douches..... I have dated A LOT of men... perhaps "dated" is an exaggeration, I have fvcked a lot of men is more realistic.
> 
> I am feeling all out of sorts, work is stressful, my personal life is stressful, I am sad and overworked and stressed out and have nobody to blame but me.... ugh...


I miss him, too! There are a lot of posters that I miss.

Yeah, you have dated a lot of douche canoes. You need to work on your picker, grrrl.


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## Hope Shimmers

Or it could be that all men are douche canoes.

(Except the ones participating in this thread)


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## Ynot

ne9907 said:


> I miss @anotherplanet
> 
> Was that his name??
> 
> damn... I had forgotten about navy guy. All the guys I have dated are douches..... I have dated A LOT of men... perhaps "dated" is an exaggeration, I have fvcked a lot of men is more realistic.
> 
> I am feeling all out of sorts, work is stressful, my personal life is stressful, I am sad and overworked and stressed out and have nobody to blame but me.... ugh...


Don't feel about all the dudes you fvcked. Edison said it best, when asked about the 1000 times he failed to invent the light bulb, he said the light bulb was just a process that took a 1000 steps (paraphrasing). Some day, some where, some dude (and your self) are going to benefit from the experience of it all. Enjoy the ride (pun intended) and don't be too hard on yourself! Better to have lived and learned, than be limited by some religious dogma that says you shall not...


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Here's the secret: always tell a woman she looks better without makeup. *Granted, she may never wear makeup again...*


Yeah and I'll be jealous for the rest of my life... no chance! So I shall speak the truth 

I did tell her I didn't want her to wear makeup all the time except for special occasions, I'd rather someone who isn't afraid to step out of the door everyday. Besides she's not the type of woman who needs it. I'm just jealous that she put in all that effort for others but hasn't done it for me.

Another example, ex-wife had anal sex before. I don't like anal sex, never even tried it once, but I would have been very jealous if she had it with another guy and never offered it to me. Ex-wife offered it, which I promptly replied NO THANKS! But it was the gesture that counts.


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## Elizabeth001

Ya can't say you don't like it if you haven't tried it. Bwaahaaa!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude




----------



## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> Yeah and I'll be jealous for the rest of my life... no chance! So I shall speak the truth
> 
> I did tell her I didn't want her to wear makeup all the time except for special occasions, I'd rather someone who isn't afraid to step out of the door everyday. Besides she's not the type of woman who needs it. I'm just jealous that she put in all that effort for others but hasn't done it for me.
> 
> Another example, ex-wife had anal sex before. I don't like anal sex, never even tried it once, but I would have been very jealous if she had it with another guy and never offered it to me. Ex-wife offered it, which I promptly replied NO THANKS! But it was the gesture that counts.


Have you tried being direct and unapologetic with her? There is absolutely nothing wrong with you wanting her to dress up occasionally and do her makeup FOR YOU. Just because she's used to being admired for her beauty doesn't mean that she shouldn't put in the extra effort for you. I've found that women are far more likely to do what I ask when I'm direct with them, take charge, and give positive reinforcement for those actions. Consider telling her that you are going to take her on a special date and she should wear a tight fitting dress that accentuates her boobs, high heals, and have her hair and makeup done. If she protests that you just want her because she's attractive, be direct and honest with her. Tell her, "of course I'm dating you because you're attractive! I only date attractive women." Then tell her that you are attracted to all parts of her...her heart, her brains, the feelings you have when you're together, and of course the beautiful packaging. 

I get the feeling she was testing you to see how you'd react. By ceding to her you are showing that you aren't confident enough to tell her directly what it is that you want from her, since you both know you wanted her to wear makeup for you. It's almost like you're being a little dishonest and trying to hide who you are so that she'll like you and stay with you. My experience with women is that if you are direct they tend to find it comforting because they actually know the real you. Then they are far more likely to do what it is that you'd like. 

BTW, I love your posts.


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> Have you tried being direct and unapologetic with her? There is absolutely nothing wrong with you wanting her to dress up occasionally and do her makeup FOR YOU. Just because she's used to being admired for her beauty doesn't mean that she shouldn't put in the extra effort for you. I've found that women are far more likely to do what I ask when I'm direct with them, take charge, and give positive reinforcement for those actions. Consider telling her that you are going to take her on a special date and she should wear a tight fitting dress that accentuates her boobs, high heals, and have her hair and makeup done. If she protests that you just want her because she's attractive, be direct and honest with her. Tell her, "of course I'm dating you because you're attractive! I only date attractive women." Then tell her that you are attracted to all parts of her...her heart, her brains, the feelings you have when you're together, and of course the beautiful packaging.
> 
> I get the feeling she was testing you to see how you'd react. By ceding to her you are showing that you aren't confident enough to tell her directly what it is that you want from her, since you both know you wanted her to wear makeup for you. It's almost like you're being a little dishonest and trying to hide who you are so that she'll like you and stay with you. My experience with women is that if you are direct they tend to find it comforting because they actually know the real you. Then they are far more likely to do what it is that you'd like.
> 
> BTW, I love your posts.


Good point. If she knows that it's something she can do to show she cares about you, I think she would be more likely to do it. Real Estate isn't always forthcoming about what I can do to show him that I care for him, and I have a d!ckens of a time trying to figure it out, but I'm getting better. So maybe you just need to do what @Bananapeel says. She can't do it for you if she doesn't know that you want it and what it will mean to you.


----------



## RandomDude

Haha, I had already made her agree to dress up for me on that same night (but she wont wear make up till our special occasion - Valentines day), but she was upset I pushed the issue hence once I had her commitment to make up for me I "soothed her" so no hard feelings  I've always been honest with her, and I don't hide my desires. Still she wasn't very happy about it, that's why I'm a little annoyed she's still a tad pissy. She's ok in general just didn't get what she wanted from me.


----------



## ne9907

Ynot said:


> Don't feel about all the dudes you fvcked. Edison said it best, when asked about the 1000 times he failed to invent the light bulb, he said the light bulb was just a process that took a 1000 steps (paraphrasing). Some day, some where, some dude (and your self) are going to benefit from the experience of it all. Enjoy the ride (pun intended) and don't be too hard on yourself! Better to have lived and learned, than be limited by some religious dogma that says you shall not...


awww you are sweet. Thank you.

I am thinking about buying a mobile home! I live in an area where rent prices are absurdly high. My apartment complex is getting weird and the neighbors are always complaining about stuff. I am hardly ever there. This mobile home is cheap. I will have to pay land space and home association fees, but not still unsure. 

Have any of you lived in a mobile home before?


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## Elizabeth001

ne9907 said:


> awww you are sweet. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> I am thinking about buying a mobile home! I live in an area where rent prices are absurdly high. My apartment complex is getting weird and the neighbors are always complaining about stuff. I am hardly ever there. This mobile home is cheap. I will have to pay land space and home association fees, but not still unsure.
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of you lived in a mobile home before?




Just remember that they depreciate in value like automobiles where as houses appreciate. If you can eventually buy a piece of land to move it to, then at least the land appreciates. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> Have any of you lived in a mobile home before?


Yes, well sorta...

... TADA!!!











Wanna buy? Cause I am going to be broke soon and may not be able to afford all the mooring/marina fees 
Sailing it to the US won't be free though lol


----------



## Bananapeel

@ne9907 - I rented a mobile home for a few months while I was waiting for a house to be built. It was a dump and the neighbors were weird. It wasn't in the best area and there was higher crime there than I was comfortable with. One of my weird neighbors tried to lure me into joining their cult church, so at least I had some good stories to tell to my friends. I've had some friends in the higher end mobile home parks that had a much better experience. Those were safe and had some good parties. If you go this route, make sure the park is nice and clean with newer homes or you might regret your decision. 
@FeministInPink - A lot of guys have a hard time communicating their desires to women, just like real estate is with you. I think it's societal pressure that has us conditioned to be "nice" instead of "direct" but it makes relationships harder since both people are guessing on how to properly express themselves to each other. I have a very direct personality and find it helps a lot with communication, but also like to please people and have to cognizantly fight my instincts on that at times.


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> On the old thread, when a poster was dating someone, they would chose a notable characteristic and combine it with "hat" to give the person a moniker we would use on the thread. So, if I was dating a fireman, I might call him "Fireman-hat." Eventually, the -hat part of the naming convention fell out of use, and we just started making up names. So I call my guy Real Estate (he works in real estate), and I previously dated Fireman and J-Dawg, among others; @bklyn309 is/was dating Older Man, or OM for short, who is, well significantly older than bklyn (any update on that, bklyn?), and before that someone nicknamed Chemistry Man; @ne9907 dated a guy nicknamed Navy back in the day; an old poster who doesn't come around anymore was dating a woman he nicknamed Bleacher because she was a little OCD when it came to cleaning (she liked to bleach everything, but she sounded like a great gal otherwise); there was another poster (also long gone, sadly) who dated a woman he dubbed Guitar Girl because she would play her guitar at open mic nights and stuff (you guys remember @Healer? I miss his posts).



My dating update: OM is still in (and out) of the picture. He is trying really hard to address the issues I brought up. He went to an arcade with my son and I and bought the kids gifts from his recent trip. He is trying to engage them more. He really says he wants to work on this. I am still unsure. So I am seeing him as time allows.

Work is insanely busy so I dont have alot of free time. I signed up for a bible study group and tennis lessons so I think OM sees me filling up my already busy schedule.

Chemistry Man keeps contacting me. But I cannot go there again unless I want a purely sexual relationship. I also had a guy hit on me during Bible Study group. But I am trying to focus on my spiritual self there and not pick up men.


----------



## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> @ne9907 - I rented a mobile home for a few months while I was waiting for a house to be built. It was a dump and the neighbors were weird. It wasn't in the best area and there was higher crime there than I was comfortable with. One of my weird neighbors tried to lure me into joining their cult church, so at least I had some good stories to tell to my friends. I've had some friends in the higher end mobile home parks that had a much better experience. Those were safe and had some good parties. If you go this route, make sure the park is nice and clean with newer homes or you might regret your decision.


I agree with @Bananapeel on this one. Some trailer parks are really trashy. 

And the depreciation thing is also something to consider.

If you have to buy the land and pay the association fees... have you considered just buying some land, and building a small house? They actually sell "house kits" that you can assemble yourself (maybe with the help of a few friends), and the cost is comparable to a mobile home. 



Bananapeel said:


> @FeministInPink - A lot of guys have a hard time communicating their desires to women, just like real estate is with you. I think it's societal pressure that has us conditioned to be "nice" instead of "direct" but it makes relationships harder since both people are guessing on how to properly express themselves to each other. I have a very direct personality and find it helps a lot with communication, but also like to please people and have to cognizantly fight my instincts on that at times.


He's great at communicating in general. And he loves that I'm willing to talk about what I need or what maybe I'm not getting, if we have a disagreement, I want to talk about it and understand why we disagreed. He really likes that about me, and I like that I feel safe voicing opinions to him that he might not like, knowing that I won't endanger his affection for me by doing so.

So I'm not sure if he has a hard time communicating his needs, or if I'm already meeting them and he's happy? I'm pretty perceptive about what people need in that sense, so maybe it's the latter.


----------



## ne9907

FeministInPink said:


> I agree with @Bananapeel on this one. Some trailer parks are really trashy.
> 
> And the depreciation thing is also something to consider.
> 
> If you have to buy the land and pay the association fees... have you considered just buying some land, and building a small house? They actually sell "house kits" that you can assemble yourself (maybe with the help of a few friends), and the cost is comparable to a mobile home.
> 
> 
> 
> .


I might become trailer trash...~ I apologize if I offend anyone!

The only thing that kills me is the depreciation. Taking baby steps, last year I did not want to get rid of the loser ex boyfriend because I needed a plan B in case I lost my job. I do not want to go back to live with my mom. 

Now, I want to buy a cheap place that way if I lose my job, I can get on unemployment while looking for another job and still have my own place. I am planning on buying this mobile home without a loan (cash?)

I do not understand why I always live in constant fear that I am going to lose my job and will have to move back to my mom's...... seriously guys... this thought is terrifying!!!


----------



## Elizabeth001

ne9907 said:


> I might become trailer trash...~ I apologize if I offend anyone!
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that kills me is the depreciation. Taking baby steps, last year I did not want to get rid of the loser ex boyfriend because I needed a plan B in case I lost my job. I do not want to go back to live with my mom.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I want to buy a cheap place that way if I lose my job, I can get on unemployment while looking for another job and still have my own place. I am planning on buying this mobile home without a loan (cash?)
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand why I always live in constant fear that I am going to lose my job and will have to move back to my mom's...... seriously guys... this thought is terrifying!!!




Decide how much you have to invest, keep your credit clean. Buy a small house. Or a mobile home that is attached to its own land. 

ETA: Interest rates are VERY low right now. 


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## Elizabeth001

One more thought and I'm off to bed. Buying is CHEAPER than renting right now. Credit/cash down is key. It's a buyers market. Poke around or hook up with someone who deals in foreclosures. 


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## Ynot

ne9907 said:


> awww you are sweet. Thank you.
> 
> I am thinking about buying a mobile home! I live in an area where rent prices are absurdly high. My apartment complex is getting weird and the neighbors are always complaining about stuff. I am hardly ever there. This mobile home is cheap. I will have to pay land space and home association fees, but not still unsure.
> 
> Have any of you lived in a mobile home before?


As a real estate appraiser with over 20 years experience I would recommend against a MH or a living in a MH park. Short term might be great but long term it would just be a waste of money. Besides the lot rent, utility costs would eat you up, those things are not very well insulated. I am not sure where Narnia is, but around here there are still decent neighborhoods that you can get into for the low $100k. A mortgage payment of $600 with taxes and insurance is more affordable than lot rent, trailer payment and utilities.
Plus the caliber of guys you would meet there probably wouldn't be the greatest. Watch Idiocracy and see what I mean Haha


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> As a real estate appraiser with over 20 years experience I would recommend against a MH or a living in a MH park. Short term might be great but long term it would just be a waste of money. Besides the lot rent, utility costs would eat you up, those things are not very well insulated. I am not sure where Narnia is, but around here there are still decent neighborhoods that you can get into for the low $100k. A mortgage payment of $600 with taxes and insurance is more affordable than lot rent, trailer payment and utilities.
> 
> Plus the caliber of guys you would meet there probably wouldn't be the greatest. Watch Idiocracy and see what I mean Haha




OTOH....you wouldn't have any problem scoring weed. lol 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> OTOH....you wouldn't have any problem scoring weed. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But... be worth smoking? Take the savings in living expenses and plan a trip to Colorado.


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## Elizabeth001

I didn't say GOOD weed. Rofl!


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## RandomDude

Lining someone up for termination today, seriously what the FK was he thinking? Do I really have to spell out the meritocratic culture that I have built in my business with every fking potential department head? I tolerate no room for politics, no room for people stealing other people's work and claiming it as their own, and don't try to suck my fking d--k and collect on favors. Who the FK does he think I am? My teams BUILT our success, my managers should be proud of leading the team to greatness but NOT for discrediting their work. Thank FK he's on probation. Seriously this is REALLY FKING PISSING ME OFF!!! Incompetence, insecurity, simply fking pathetic. How many do I have to fking burn through? Maybe I should sweeten the deal for internal promotion, grant them a higher offer than I offer externally, enough of the fking "don't want the responsibility" excuses. WHY CANT THEY JUST TAKE THE FKING JOB?!

*sigh* Fking uprising in my hands due to incompetent management, why the FK didn't anyone tell me beforehand? BAH!

/end vent

As much as I want to leave all this behind, these are teams I worked with for years and I MUST ensure they are in good hands.


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## RandomDude

FK I feel imprisoned


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## tropicalbeachiwish

RandomDude said:


> FK I feel imprisoned


It sounds like you need a vacation!!!


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## RandomDude

Yeah... going on vacation next week... *sigh*

I'm enrolled full time already for my studies I don't have the time to deal with all this sh-t next month, yet it feels like my team is keeping me trapped in something I don't want to do anymore. May cut my vacation short, I think I'll have to change to part time studies, I can't leave my business in this state.


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## Bananapeel

ne9907 said:


> I might become trailer trash...~ I apologize if I offend anyone!
> 
> The only thing that kills me is the depreciation. Taking baby steps, last year I did not want to get rid of the loser ex boyfriend because I needed a plan B in case I lost my job. I do not want to go back to live with my mom.
> 
> Now, I want to buy a cheap place that way if I lose my job, I can get on unemployment while looking for another job and still have my own place. I am planning on buying this mobile home without a loan (cash?)
> 
> I do not understand why I always live in constant fear that I am going to lose my job and will have to move back to my mom's...... seriously guys... this thought is terrifying!!!


NE, to me it sounds like you are making a decision that might not directly deal with your problem. Your main issue for wanting the cheap home is because you have financial insecurity. Why not instead just address the financial insecurity first and then decide if you want to buy a home? I'd highly recommend you go see a financial advisor and get a plan formulated. 

A few things to think about is maybe start with deciding how much money you need to have in savings to feel financially secure, in the event you lose your job or some major life event happens. For me, I have a very secure job and supplemental disability insurance so as little as $10K is all I'd need to handle most unexpected situations (e.g. car repair, spontaneous travel opportunity, kid expense, home repair, etc.). If I had a less secure job, that could easily balloon to 50-100K needed for me to feel secure. Can you realistically save the needed quantity of cash in your current living situation and if not, how would you have to change your situation to free up more money to save? Since you are worried about a job loss, how secure is your job and how quickly would it take you to find another one if you were fired? Can you make your current job more secure, and if not, have you thought about looking for a position at another company with more job security? That might be just as beneficial to you as saving more money. 

Once you have financial security, then its a much better time to decide if you want to buy a house and what type you can afford and would be happy living in.


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## ne9907

Ynot said:


> As a real estate appraiser with over 20 years experience I would recommend against a MH or a living in a MH park. Short term might be great but long term it would just be a waste of money. Besides the lot rent, utility costs would eat you up, those things are not very well insulated. I am not sure where Narnia is, but around here there are still decent neighborhoods that you can get into for the low $100k. A mortgage payment of $600 with taxes and insurance is more affordable than lot rent, trailer payment and utilities.
> Plus the caliber of guys you would meet there probably wouldn't be the greatest. Watch Idiocracy and see what I mean Haha


Gosh, I wish I lived where you live. THe home market where I live is high.... California... the least expensive home I have looked at is 250K. Everything is above that, goes all the way up to millions.

I also read the post where I should see a financial adviser. I have one. Not a very good one. I have some stocks, all sums up to about 11K plus my savings which are about 40K.

I am not too bad off financially, given the fact that when I left ex, I had zero to my name. I do not have any loans, financially I am okay. However...... the fear is constant and ever present. I am afraid everything will go away and I will have to depend on someone else. 
Call it PTSD because I once depended on ex so much and had nothing when I left. I am terrified of losing my job, although it is a reliable job, yet... I am afraid!!!

I have voiced my concerns to some friends (male  ) they say I am welcome to crash at their place if I am ever in need..... I do not wish to even think about that.

I am afraid, I am a scared person, I am just afraid of losing everything... PTSD from marriage??? yes, I think so. I lost everything when I left ex so yes... maybe irrational fears....

I know I could afford to buy a home up to 250K but... I am afraid I will lose my job and will not be able to afford the mortage.... 
I cant help being afraid.


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## RandomDude

Yeah sounds like my city, also why my first home was all the way AWAY from the metro areas. Hell people rent out parking lots for $100 a week lol, and even with investment properties we pay land tax. Also why people feel they have no choice but to be materialistic here. I hate the culture. Reminds me of a friend who told me that one of his mates got married and bought a house, but the house was around 20 minutes from the CBD, and despite being run down with broken windows and leaks in the ceiling, it was worth millions! They still bought it >.< Struggling to pay it off while living in a sh-thole.


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## Ynot

ne9907 said:


> Gosh, I wish I lived where you live. THe home market where I live is high.... California... the least expensive home I have looked at is 250K. Everything is above that, goes all the way up to millions.
> 
> I also read the post where I should see a financial adviser. I have one. Not a very good one. I have some stocks, all sums up to about 11K plus my savings which are about 40K.
> 
> I am not too bad off financially, given the fact that when I left ex, I had zero to my name. I do not have any loans, financially I am okay. However...... the fear is constant and ever present. I am afraid everything will go away and I will have to depend on someone else.
> Call it PTSD because I once depended on ex so much and had nothing when I left. I am terrified of losing my job, although it is a reliable job, yet... I am afraid!!!
> 
> I have voiced my concerns to some friends (male  ) they say I am welcome to crash at their place if I am ever in need..... I do not wish to even think about that.
> 
> I am afraid, I am a scared person, I am just afraid of losing everything... PTSD from marriage??? yes, I think so. I lost everything when I left ex so yes... maybe irrational fears....
> 
> I know I could afford to buy a home up to 250K but... I am afraid I will lose my job and will not be able to afford the mortage....
> I cant help being afraid.


Hey, I know what you are saying. I just got back from a 3 week cross country visit to rainy California. I was in San Jose for most of it. San Jose has the dubious distinction of being the first metro area with a median sales price exceeding $1,000,000. I checked out the local news papers and saw a 700sf 1 br 1 bath house sold for $695,000. The newspaper said that you would need save 182% of your entire annual income (median $102,000) to make a 20% down payment on an average property. I have no idea how people live like that. But I did get an idea how they adapt - they drive 2 hours a day to and from the less expensive place they can afford to the place they work. Not for me!
Anyways I live in Ohio which is much more affordable. I am self employed. I took control of my life years ago. I suggest you do the same. Don't settle for a "job" look for a career. Put yourself in a position where you control what you do. I don't have a boss (aside from the prick that I am haha) instead I have a dozen or more bosses and if one of them pizz me off? I fire them and replace them with some one who treats me better. 
However, I did get destroyed in the mortgage meltdown. I was facing losing my home because of lost income (from businesses filing bankruptcy and not paying me), loss of income from a much restricted workflow, soaring operating costs (too much debt and then jacked interest rates and shortened amortizations), and not enough financial cushion (supporting a family with a SAHM didn't leave much for savings, although I did have some savings, a 401K and some stocks). In the end it bankrupted me. (which was probably the beginning of the end, when my wife told me to do what I had to do, she didn't want to know about).
So, moving forward I decided to address each of these issues. First off, now I pay myself first. I now have much, much more of a cushion than I ever did when I was married (I am talking 5 to 10 multiples more) and I did this in very short order. After bouncing around after my divorce, I reinvested the money I had left back into my business and nearly drained my bank account before I got it flying again. Now I have more than twice as much cash in the bank than I did after the divorce.
Secondly, I have diversified my income stream. I now have income from a minimum of three sources. One drawback is that all of them are real estate related. However, I have them positioned so if one segment goes down another should go up. I do field appraisals, desktop appraisals and I teach. Since I got back from my trip last week, I have already generated over $2000 in income, which is more than sufficient for my needs.
I also keep better control of receivables and don't let some of these organizations drag out paying me like I did before. If some company doesn't pay in 30 days, I charge extra and demand they pay on time or I start charging late fees. So while I have more receivables now than I ever did before, it is much fresher.
I limit my debt. I have a car loan. I pay extra on it. I have a couple of credit cards. I do carry balances on them. I have these just to maintain and enhance my credit score in order to fully recover from my bankruptcy. My credit scores are now in the high 700's with limited debt. I could pay all of it tomorrow with the cash I have on hand.
Here are some things to consider in regards to buying vs renting. First off when you are renting you are already paying for someone else to buy that property plus whatever profit they want. So the money you spend renting could be working for your benefit instead of some one else's. Secondly, if you lost your job you would still need a place to live. You said you don't want to think about crashing at some dude's place (I assume because of the payment in kind which would be expected). So why not have the place that others could crash at if they lost their jobs. I am sure you have girl friends, co-workers, acquaintences that might need a place to stay, so you can sublet rooms out if it came t that. Plus you will benefit from the equity, pride of ownership and whatever tax advantages that would come from it.
Sorry for the rambling post. I started typing and just realized how long this post has become. Don't mean to sound preachy


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## tripad

wait till you live in Singapore . It is crazy . An average Honda civic is S$ 120 k , of which S$ 50 k is tax .

A pigeon hole home ard 900 sqft is S$ 850 k , apartment only .

A condominium with facilities , 1600 sqft , upmarket location is S$ 1.5 to 2 million , not prime location even . Not to mention the various tax you have to pay in the process .


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## RandomDude

Singapore is a powerhouse city-state, so many people, so little space. Yet its dollar is equivalent to AUD. NUTS! And everything is overpriced!!! $20 for a beer?!

I dunno how you guys even survive really, though I like the 5cs and 5bs



> I don't need a CAR, but I want a BMW
> I don't need a CONDO, but I want a BUNGALOW
> I don't need a CREDIT CARD, but I want a BILLIONAIRE
> I don't need you to have CASH but I want you to own a BANK
> I don't need you to have a CAREER but I want you to be a BOSS


Heh, yet even if that's true of the materialistic standards of the country, I don't blame Singaporeans for it.


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## ne9907

@Ynot
you are not preachy 

I live about an hour from San Jose.... although with traffic it is more like 2 hours.


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## RandomDude

Argh so much work planning an itinerary 

Sure hope things go well on our trip, me and cuddlebunny going to be kicking back and relaxing:


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Argh so much work planning an itinerary
> 
> Sure hope things go well on our trip, me and cuddlebunny going to be kicking back and relaxing:


Be daring! Don't plan an itinerary. I went across the southeast, drove to Colorado and then to California without booking a single hotel room. I went as far as I felt like going and stopped wherever I felt like stopping, knowing I did not have to get anywhere at any particular time except to eventually get to my destination (since people were waiting for me there). Otherwise relax and play it by ear.


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## FeministInPink

So, I've come upon something with Real Estate that I don't really know how to handle or what to do.

Real Estate has a french bulldog we will call Flower, and he absolutely adores her. He is incredibly attached to her, like really _really_ attached. She has been his primary emotional support throughout the turmoil of his previous marriage and the subsequent divorce, which was pretty traumatic for him, and for the 5 or so years since.

She's a very sweet dog, and I enjoy her company. But I have to admit, I don't understand this attachment. I don't understand how or why people get so attached to animals. I mean, I understand _why_, I've read a lot of articles on the subject, but it still seems illogical to me to get so emotionally attached to an animal who loves you not because they choose to, but because they are biologically predisposed to love their owner through centuries of domestication, and they see their owner as their pack leader. The animal doesn't really have a choice in the equation. I am very empathetic in most situations, because I can understand the emotions that the other person is feeling, but in the instance of animal, I just don't. It's not limited to Real Estate; I have a friend who is super attached to her animals as well, and I don't get it with her, either. I had two cats, and I loved them when they were a part of my life and I appreciated the emotional support they provided during my separation and divorce. I was pretty upset when each of them passed, but I also knew it was coming because they were old, I accepted that it was their time, and I got over it pretty quickly. And I have no desire to get another pet; I think about it every once in a while, but honestly, I don't think the financial investment and the effort that goes into taking care of an animal would be worth it to me.

But I really do like Flower, and she's completely taken with me. Real Estate does grumble a fair bit that she prefers me over him, because she follows me everywhere when I'm at his place. She seems to _know_ that Friday is the day I come over, and she will wait by the door all afternoon until I arrive. At night, she cuddles up next to me, but I think that's only because I'm cuddled up next to Real Estate and there's no room on his side of the bed. I assure him she loves him, and she's only this attentive because I'm a novelty.

Flower is old. She is twelve years old, and the average life expectancy of a frenchie is 11-14 yrs. Real Estate knows that the time she has left is limited, and I know that he is scared of when that day will come. The only time I've seen him get emotional (aside from his occasional temper flare ups) is once when he started talking about it. He was a little drunk, otherwise I don't think he would have spoken about it at all, and his eyes started to tear up, and then he was like, but we're not going to think or talk about this anymore.

The last few weeks, she's had a hard time keeping down her food. Nearly every time we would feed her, she would throw up. At first he thought it was because he had to change her food temporarily because the pet store didn't have the regular stuff, then he thought that she was eating something in the backyard that she shouldn't, and then he thought she might have a parasite. I was thinking that he should get her to the vet when it lasted a day or two, and I mentioned it once or twice, but then I let it drop because Flower is his dog and he knows her better than I. I realize now that he didn't take her right away because he was scared of what it might be, and that taking her to the vet might mean that she needs to be put down.

He realized on Thursday or Friday that she had lost some weight (she wears a sweater in the winter, so it was easy to miss), and that finally spurred him to action to take her into the vet, and it turns out that she has a hiatal hernia. They gave him some medicine and some special food for her, and she was eating well all weekend and had some of her pep back in her step. (The medicine included some doggie morphine, which explains the second art!) They told him they were going to do surgery Monday morning, but when he got there, they said, no, we're just going to check her out again to see if she needs surgery, and when they did, they decided to schedule the surgery for Tuesday morning.

So Real Estate and I were texting earlier tonight (Monday evening) and I him a couple questions about the surgery (how long is the surgery, will they have to keep her overnight--simple stuff), and his answer to every question was, "I don't know, as long as they help her and make her better." And then he says, "But if you would like me to feel worse about how I am an inadequate pet owner you can ask me more questions about things I didn't ask about." And I was thinking, _Whoa! Hold up! That's not what I was saying at all._

So I called him, and we had a talk and a not-quite-argument... turns out asking a lot of questions that he didn't think to ask is a bit of a trigger for him, because his dad would drill him about stuff when he was a kid, and treated him like he was a dum dum for not having answers. I ask questions because I care, but he took it to imply that I didn't think he was asking the vet enough questions. In reality, I'm kind of pissed at his vet, because they haven't communicated well with him and haven't been giving him enough information, from what I can tell. (I was with him during at least two phone calls to the animal hospital over the weekend, and it struck me that no one over there seems to have a ****ing clue.) 

But the more we talked about it, what came out is that he's really freaked the **** out about this. He's worried about the money (it's going to cost like $5k), and part of him is thinking, is this really going to be worth the money if she's going to die in the next year or two? But ultimately, to him it is, because he would pay any amount of money to keep her around, because he's terrified of the day when she won't be with him anymore. AND he's also freaking out because he's scared that she might die in surgery, that today might actually be the last day he has with her, and he's not ready. And he's trying not to think about it, and my questions were making him think about it. 

(This is also something I can't understand. I can't just "not think about it." If I was in his position, I wouldn't be able to NOT think about it, so in my mind, if I can't get rid of it, I might as well confront it and deal with my fears. Gather as much information as I can to either calm my fears because logically my fears are unfounded, or face the reality that my fears will likely come to pass, and so better to start dealing with it now.)

Which, not that I'm writing this, I see now why he wouldn't ask all those questions that I would be asking. Because while answers would ease my fears, they would only intensify his fears.

OK, so my quandary is this. I don't really know how to best support him in this. I told him that I ask the questions because I care; collecting information is the best way for me to understand. He's been feeling this all weekend, and he's been hiding it from me. If I knew how stressed and agitated he was about this, I would have approached it differently, but he was acting like it was no big deal.

I know we're going to have to talk about this. If he's really stressed or upset about something, he needs to tell me. We don't have to talk about it if he doesn't want to talk about it, and that's fine, but he at least needs to give me a heads up so that I don't end up pushing buttons like I did tonight, not knowing that I pushed them.

Any thoughts?

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## RandomDude

This is never an easy time, just be there for him. Losing an animal can be like losing a child. He seems to be still very much in the first stage of grief, hence your questions that force him to face the reality of his situation cause him to be defensive and hostile.

Don't talk about it, just listen and be with him.


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## Ynot

And don't be surprised if RE goes underground and disappears for a few days after the fact in order to digest everything that happened


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> And don't be surprised if RE goes underground and disappears for a few days after the fact in order to digest everything that happened


That thought hadn't occurred to me, but now that you mention it, it wouldn't surprise me. That is something he would do, even if the surgery goes well.

He's been beating himself up lately and questioning if he's been good enough to her, as an owner. I tell him that she's happy and he showers her with love all the time. But he still questions if he takes her on walks enough, or if he should have taken her to the dog park more, if keeping her at home all the time was the best thing. And he wonders if he should have left Flower with his ex (who owns the other frenchie they had together, Freddie... during the separation, Real Estate let Flower stay with his XW and Freddie while he had to go out of town, because XW said the Freddie missed Flower. When he got home, XW wouldn't give Flower back to him, and then took the Flower to Arizona with her a few weeks later when she moved there with her AP. He had to fly to Arizona to get his dog back.), if Flower would have been happier there with another dog, instead of living alone with Real Estate, with little exposure to other people and other animals.

When he gets like that, assurances don't seem to help much.


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## RandomDude

It does, just be patient.

I've been in his shoes. He just needs to grief.


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## bkyln309

I think as our pet age, all animal lovers questions if they did all the right things. I know with the divorce and single parenthood, my aging Lab doesnt get walks and swims anymore as I dont have the time. I feel guilty when I do walk her that she can barely walk two blocks. I think if only I would have MADE time for it.


I think the best advice is just listen. I am one who loves my dog like a child. I will be devastated when she dies. This is going to be a VERY hard thing for him. Just be supportive.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> I think as our pet age, all animal lovers questions if they did all the right things. I know with the divorce and single parenthood, my aging Lab doesnt get walks and swims anymore as I dont have the time. I feel guilty when I do walk her that she can barely walk two blocks. I think if only I would have MADE time for it.
> 
> 
> I think the best advice is just listen. I am one who loves my dog like a child. I will be devastated when she dies. This is going to be a VERY hard thing for him. *Just be supportive.*


I know it's going to be a very hard thing for him. That was something I picked up on very early in knowing him. My psychic friend Katie, when I told her that Flower was 12 yrs old, her immediate response was, "She's old, and it's going to be hard on him. He's really going to need you when that happens."

So, my question is, what can I do to be supportive? Because I honestly don't know. If he was a woman, I would know how to offer support. But he's not. He's a dude. He doesn't want to talk about things that upset him, he would rather bottle it up. (So I'm not sure that listening will help, if he doesn't want to talk.)


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I know it's going to be a very hard thing for him. That was something I picked up on very early in knowing him. My psychic friend Katie, when I told her that Flower was 12 yrs old, her immediate response was, "She's old, and it's going to be hard on him. He's really going to need you when that happens."
> 
> So, my question is, what can I do to be supportive? Because I honestly don't know. If he was a woman, I would know how to offer support. But he's not. He's a dude. He doesn't want to talk about things that upset him, he would rather bottle it up. (So I'm not sure that listening will help, if he doesn't want to talk.)




What would you do if it were his child? Do that. 

Being a hard core pet mom myself, they are my children to me and I raised two humans for comparison. There's no way I would choose my dogs over my humans but the love is just as deep for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bananapeel

FIP - if it were my dog I'd ask the clinic these specific questions. 

1. How do you monitor anesthesia? Do you monitor blood pressure, run an ECG, pulse ox, monitor heart rate, and watch respiratory rate? The better clinics will do all of those things. 
2. What is the pre-med protocol that you use prior to inducing anesthesia? If they are inducing anesthesia without premeds then the risk of anesthetic death goes up because you have to give a higher drug volume to put them under. 
3. What pre-op blood work do you do? At that age they should be running a CBC/Chem panel. 
4. How do you monitor recovery? Is a tech monitoring him or is he alone in a cage in a back room? 

If they answer all of those questions then you can be reasonably assured they are doing the best they can to protect the dog. The receptionist might not know the answers but the technician should be able to answer them for you quickly.


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## ne9907

RandomDude said:


> Don't talk about it, just listen and be with him.





Ynot said:


> And don't be surprised if RE goes underground and disappears for a few days after the fact in order to digest everything that happened





Elizabeth001 said:


> What would you do if it were his child? Do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great advice. 

I too like to know all the information available in order to feel at ease. Real estate does not seem to be this type of person. Just be there for him. 
I would probably say something like "Real estate, I am hurting because I want to ease your pain and there is very little I can do. Just know that I present to walk with you whichever path you chose. I love you (if you have exchange I love you, if not, say it if you feel it)

Then leave it alone.


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> What would you do if it were his child? Do that.
> 
> Being a hard core pet mom myself, they are my children to me and I raised two humans for comparison. There's no way I would choose my dogs over my humans but the love is just as deep for me.


I would be just as clueless if it was his child. I've never had children, nor have I ever had any desire for children, so I can't imagine how it feels. I don't know what would be helpful.


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> FIP - if it were my dog I'd ask the clinic these specific questions.
> 
> 1. How do you monitor anesthesia? Do you monitor blood pressure, run an ECG, pulse ox, monitor heart rate, and watch respiratory rate? The better clinics will do all of those things.
> 2. What is the pre-med protocol that you use prior to inducing anesthesia? If they are inducing anesthesia without premeds then the risk of anesthetic death goes up because you have to give a higher drug volume to put them under.
> 3. What pre-op blood work do you do? At that age they should be running a CBC/Chem panel.
> 4. How do you monitor recovery? Is a tech monitoring him or is he alone in a cage in a back room?
> 
> If they answer all of those questions then you can be reasonably assured they are doing the best they can to protect the dog. The receptionist might not know the answers but the technician should be able to answer them for you quickly.


These are all the types of questions I would ask, too. He doesn't see the point in asking such questions, because from his perspective, he doesn't understand the answers and it just amplifies the fact that he is helpless to fix her situation, and that he needs to rely on someone else to do the fixing (which he doesn't like). He says the answers to those questions don't matter because he can't do anything with the information, and all he cares about is that they fix Flower's problem and get her healthy again, and answers won't help that.

I've seen him be like this before. His sister has had a recurring brain tumor for the last 15 or so years, and has had several surgeries to treat it/cut it out. I asked him some questions--like in this instance, there were some things he said which gave me cause to wonder if she was really getting the best care--and again, he couldn't answer any of the questions that I had. For the same reasons as cited above.


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> Great advice.
> 
> I too like to know all the information available in order to feel at ease. Real estate does not seem to be this type of person. Just be there for him.
> I would probably say something like "Real estate, I am hurting because I want to ease your pain and there is very little I can do. Just know that I present to walk with you whichever path you chose. I love you (if you have exchange I love you, if not, say it if you feel it)
> 
> Then leave it alone.


Yes, he is definitely NOT that type of person. More information seems to make him feel more inadequate.

I don't want to tell him that I am hurting because I don't want to make this about me. Whatever bit of hurt or pain I may feel in this situation is irrelevant compared to what he is going through, and I have no desire to saddle him that additional burden at this moment. If I need comfort or need to talk to someone, I'll talk to a friend or come to TAM. He doesn't need that right now.

I did tell him last night, "I don't fully understand what you're going through right now, but I want to support you, so whatever you need from me, if you want to talk (or not), I'm here for you. Whatever you need."

No "I love you"s ... we're not there yet, at least not saying it. Love is there, it's obvious, but we're both a little gun-shy about putting it out there. And I'm not sure that I want the possible death of his dog to be the mental association with the first time I tell him I love him.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I would be just as clueless if it was his child. I've never had children, nor have I ever had any desire for children, so I can't imagine how it feels. I don't know what would be helpful.




I have no further advice than what's been offered so far but I just wanted to make sure you realized the gravity of the situation. I hope the best for the three of you <3


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I have no further advice than what's been offered so far but I just wanted to make sure you realized the gravity of the situation. I hope the best for the three of you <3


Thank you. He did say to me on the phone last night that she's like his child. But even if he hadn't, I am well aware of the gravity of this situation. In my entire life, I have never seen another person as emotionally attached to a pet as Real Estate is to Flower. She is everything to him. He doesn't trust people enough to invest emotionally in them, so he diverts all his emotion into Flower. Which is problematic in its own way, and another discussion altogether. I'm worried that he will completely fall apart when she passes. His divorce was traumatic enough, and he's still not completely over that. I'm very worried what this will do to him.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Thank you. He did say to me on the phone last night that she's like his child. But even if he hadn't, I am well aware of the gravity of this situation. In my entire life, I have never seen another person as emotionally attached to a pet as Real Estate is to Flower. She is everything to him. He doesn't trust people enough to invest emotionally in them, so he diverts all his emotion into Flower. Which is problematic in its own way, and another discussion altogether. I'm worried that he will completely fall apart when she passes. His divorce was traumatic enough, and he's still not completely over that. I'm very worried what this will do to him.




You just described me as well. My boys did and are getting me through one of the most emotionally painful moments of my life. They are only 3 so barring some emergency, I hope to be in a far better position when they pass. I don't like to think about it. Whew (


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## ne9907

FeministInPink said:


> Thank you. He did say to me on the phone last night that she's like his child. But even if he hadn't, I am well aware of the gravity of this situation. In my entire life, I have never seen another person as emotionally attached to a pet as Real Estate is to Flower. She is everything to him. He doesn't trust people enough to invest emotionally in them, so he diverts all his emotion into Flower. Which is problematic in its own way, and another discussion altogether. I'm worried that he will completely fall apart when she passes. His divorce was traumatic enough, and he's still not completely over that. I'm very worried what this will do to him.


Is real estate in counseling? Or has he ever attended counseling?


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## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> Is real estate in counseling? Or has he ever attended counseling?


He has been previously, yes, but he's not currently. He did find it helpful before. I'm not sure if he did IC when his marriage broke up, or if it was something else.

He's not opposed to IC, but he's also not itching to go back, either. He can be very stubborn, and likes to think that he can do everything on his own.

I've mentioned it to him, that I think it might be good for him to go back, but I haven't pressed the issue. My arrival in his life really upset the apple cart (but in a positive way), and I see (positive) change happening in him in a number of ways. I don't want to push him too far, too fast.

But if I insisted, he would go. I know that much. I'll wait on insisting, until I feel it's really necessary.


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## FeministInPink

Good news, everyone. I heard from Real Estate, and Flower is out of surgery and doing well. They will be keeping her overnight, and he can pick her up tomorrow.

He said he is doing much better now that the surgery is over and she's in the clear.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Haiku

I appreciate the link to here. Thoughtful. Thanks much FIP.


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## FeministInPink

Haiku said:


> I appreciate the link to here. Thoughtful. Thanks much FIP.


You're welcome, @Haiku !


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Good news, everyone. I heard from Real Estate, and Flower is out of surgery and doing well. They will be keeping her overnight, and he can pick her up tomorrow.
> 
> He said he is doing much better now that the surgery is over and she's in the clear.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Jump for joy!


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## Hope Shimmers

I have no advice for anyone. 

Every time I think there is some little thing that I can grasp onto, that will make my relationship with my ex-bf work, I see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. I try to make that into something. But he just ignores me. He ignores me.

I can't be ignored anymore. I can't be nothing anymore.

I'm out.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> I have no advice for anyone.
> 
> Every time I think there is some little thing that I can grasp onto, that will make my relationship with my ex-bf work, I see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. I try to make that into something. But he just ignores me. He ignores me.
> 
> I can't be ignored anymore. I can't be nothing anymore.
> 
> I'm out.


Go. You. !!!

Seriously. And you don't have to offer advice. It's not requisite for being a member of our club


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## ne9907

Hope Shimmers said:


> I have no advice for anyone.
> 
> Every time I think there is some little thing that I can grasp onto, that will make my relationship with my ex-bf work, I see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. I try to make that into something. But he just ignores me. He ignores me.
> 
> I can't be ignored anymore. I can't be nothing anymore.
> 
> I'm out.


Like FiP said, you don't need to offer advice.... Just come in here and say whatever is in your mind 


For example.... my loser friend.... every time we are together, I feel as if I am high on drugs ( I am not). My inner voice tells me how he isn't the right type of man for me, but I also shut my inner voice saying "just be happy!"

Is this the feeling of love? I have come to accept the way he is and I no longer care.


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## RandomDude

I hardly ever offer advice on this thread, most of the time it's BAH this, BEH that, and GRRRR, and YADA YADA YADDA... and /end vent.

Though lately I've run out of things to vent about, relationship-wise that is, probably because I'm enjoying my time with my cuddle-bunny! We're going on vacation in... 1 hour!


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> I hardly ever offer advice on this thread, most of the time it's BAH this, BEH that, and GRRRR, and YADA YADA YADDA... and /end vent.
> 
> Though lately I've run out of things to vent about, relationship-wise that is, probably because I'm enjoying my time with my cuddle-bunny! We're going on vacation in... 1 hour!


You do seem quite happy with her 

Have fun!!!


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> And don't be surprised if RE goes underground and disappears for a few days after the fact in order to digest everything that happened


You called it, @Ynot. He hasn't totally gone underground, as we just spent an hour on the phone. He's worried about Flower--she hasn't really been eating. He called the vet, and the vet didn't seem worried, just said, "Make sure she's getting enough water and she's at least getting her pain meds." My guess is it's a combo of the pain and residual swelling from the surgery (both times I've had surgery, I didn't eat anything for 2-3 days after, except when I was able to force down a smoothie), but Real Estate is worried. Plus, he's dealing with a huge clusterfvck at work... another agent at the brokerage retired, and he inherited her rental accounts. There's only 4 accounts, but there isn't any paperwork anywhere in her office for any of the 4--no leases, no management agreements, he doesn't even have account numbers to deposit the rent checks. He spent the entire day going through ALL the retired agent's files trying to find this stuff, and it's nowhere, which presents a HUGE problem. He's supposed to be going to Africa a week from tomorrow, so he needs to get all this stuff figured out quick, oh, and he's supposed to take Flowers to get her stitches out in two weeks, but... he will be in Africa. And he has a new tenant moving into one of his units like 2 days after he gets back, so he has to get all that sorted out before he goes. And he really doesn't want to go to Africa, he's only going because it's his friend's wedding--travel stresses him out. He's just super, super stressed out. And telling me about everything on one hand allowed him to vent, but it also stressed him out more because he was thinking about everything.

And he was like, "Maybe you shouldn't come over this weekend... but I'll be gone the next two weekends... but I don't want to lose my sh!t this weekend and take it out on you." It's all too much, all together at the same time. And he already feels bad, because we were supposed to have lunch together yesterday (I was working from home), and he forgot because he was dealing with all this other sh!t. So I said, "Of course I want to come over and I want to see you, but I don't want to add to your stress. Let's just play it by ear and see how you feel tomorrow. I have some work to do this weekend, so either I do it at home, or I bring my laptop to your place, both are fine by me. If you are starting to feel overwhelmed, you let me know, and I can leave for a couple hours, or whatever you need. We'll figure it out."

And I also know that he's worried about his temper with me being there. When he gets stressed or upset, he will lash out. He knows he does it, he knows it isn't healthy, but it's a bad behavior that he learned from his FOO, and it happens before he can stop it from coming out... and he knows it affects me, and that I don't like it. So that's another stressor for him--he's worried that he will get overwhelmed and take it out on me--and he doesn't want to do that. It's the last thing he wants to do.

Obviously, the timing is bad--but that's why he's stressed about it. If I don't get to see him this weekend, I hope at least we'll get to spend some time together before he leaves next Friday. But if we don't... it's not intentional, it's not about me, it's not a problem with us.


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## Ynot

FIP, honestly if I were you I would back way off. Don't even suggest going there or him coming there. Give him as much space as he needs. He will either see he misses you and make a move himself or he won't. But either way you leave it up to him. Plus, in doing so you will exercise more control over yourself and not place your self in a position of walking on egg shells. Just tell him, you understand and if he would like to see you great.


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## FeministInPink

That's pretty much what I'm already doing!


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## 3Xnocharm

FIP, you are a great girlfriend.  You realize this isnt an issue with you or your relationship, and you respect his feelings. Well done!


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> FIP, you are a great girlfriend.  You realize this isnt an issue with you or your relationship, and you respect his feelings. Well done!


Thanks! Except that I'm still not technically his "girlfriend," LOL  We're seeing each other, we're in a relationship, we're a couple, etc (confirmed by him), but he still won't use girlfriend/boyfriend or the term "dating."


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## GuyInColorado

The proposal is going down tonight!!


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## bkyln309

GuyInColorado said:


> The proposal is going down tonight!!


So excited for you both! Congratulations.


----------



## TooNice

I've been lurking, but have been to busy to reply to the flurry of messages on here. 
@Hope Shimmers: Agreed - you don't need to feel badly about "not contributing". That's not what this place is about. We are just here for each other. But sweetie, please stop grasping. There is nothing there to grab. More importantly, nothing WORTH grasping. You are worth more. 
@FeministInPink: you are a really great (not)girlfriend. You are patient, understanding, and real. While it would be sad to go that long without seeing Real Estate, it's so great that you can know that it's not about you. The best thing you can do for him to have him know without fail that you and your relationship do not need to be things that add to the pile of stress he currently has. Sending good thoughts to all of you (including Flower!).
@RandomDude: Have an amazing vacation!
@GuyInColorado: Good luck!

I'm a few weeks into exclusively seeing the 30 yo now. We went out last night, and he texted me later to tell me that last night and our first real date have been two of the best dates he's had. Ever. I'm afraid I'm starting to have those little doubts start to creep in, but I am trying to breathe and relax. This is the longest I have gone before freaking out, so I am trying to ride it out. I told him once early on that I tend to have a pattern, but I may talk to him and just let him know that I am getting scared. Not to scare him, but to be honest and hopefully work through it together. He's awesome, but I am really not sure I see myself with him in 2-3 years. So, my brain is starting to use that against me. 

I think my biggest fear right now is that I am enjoying our time together, and I am starting to think he may be seeing it for something more. I am not ready to fall in love. I know that. I am a lover, a caretaker and a giver, and when I love, I do it with my heart and soul. The last time I did that, it ended badly and I lost not just my husband, but a child as well. I know that while I crave companionship, I can't love yet. I need to gently find a way to make sure he can understand all of that.


----------



## GA HEART

Wandering back in here after 2 years away when I wasn't "single." (Should have been!) LOL!

GuyINCO, CONGRATS! I don't know you (have only been back on TAM like a week, lol) but I'm excited for you and your lady. Good luck!


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## FeministInPink

I'm a sad sack. This is the first Friday I haven't spent with Real Estate since... damn near forever. I think since last July, when we had that big fight were only just barely on speaking terms. Our last big fight was in October, and after 4 days we made up and missed each other like crazy. And we're not even fighting right now! This sucks. I have work that I should be doing anyway, but...

This sucks, sucks, sucks. We handle stress SOOOOOO differently. I have a horrible, stressful, awful week, and all I want to do is run into his arms, and when I do, all the stress melts away and everything that was bothering me doesn't seem so bad. He gets stressed, and this happens.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> @FeministInPink: you are a really great (not)girlfriend. You are patient, understanding, and real. While it would be sad to go that long without seeing Real Estate, it's so great that you can know that it's not about you. The best thing you can do for him to have him know without fail that you and your relationship do not need to be things that add to the pile of stress he currently has. Sending good thoughts to all of you (including Flower!).


Thanks. I need the boost. I'm trying.




TooNice said:


> I'm a few weeks into exclusively seeing the 30 yo now. We went out last night, and he texted me later to tell me that last night and our first real date have been two of the best dates he's had. Ever. I'm afraid I'm starting to have those little doubts start to creep in, but I am trying to breathe and relax. This is the longest I have gone before freaking out, so I am trying to ride it out. I told him once early on that I tend to have a pattern, but I may talk to him and just let him know that I am getting scared. Not to scare him, but to be honest and hopefully work through it together. He's awesome, but I am really not sure I see myself with him in 2-3 years. So, my brain is starting to use that against me.
> 
> I think my biggest fear right now is that I am enjoying our time together, and I am starting to think he may be seeing it for something more. I am not ready to fall in love. I know that. I am a lover, a caretaker and a giver, and when I love, I do it with my heart and soul. The last time I did that, it ended badly and I lost not just my husband, but a child as well. I know that while I crave companionship, I can't love yet. I need to gently find a way to make sure he can understand all of that.


Breathe. Doubts are normal. (I even do it sometimes with Real Estate.) It's just your brain working overtime.

Don't worry about 2-3 years from now. No one knows what's gonna happen 2-3 years from now. If you talk to him about it, be prepared to tell him what he can do to help ease your fears. He will ask. If he doesn't, you should tell him. Figure out what you _need_, and let him provide it. But he can't provide it if he doesn't know.

Love is important. Everyone needs love. Babies literally die if they don't get it. If this is something you fear, tell him you need to take things slow. Establish boundaries for yourself and for him. And read some books to help you work through this, because you're the only one who can heal you.


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## Miss Independent

.


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## Miss Independent

.


----------



## FeministInPink

Miss Independent said:


> Time to post an update.
> 
> I stopped seeing the guy I was seeing this past summer. He lied about a conversation that never happened even though I had proofs that we never talked about it!!
> 
> Anyway, I thought it would be better to go our separate ways since I'm not into liars.
> 
> Me and my best friend had a get together yesterday, and I've decided to stop dating.
> 
> I feel as if I need to learn how to compromise. I suck at comprising. I'm more of a my way or the highway type of woman.
> 
> 
> Oh I ran into my h-ex today ugh


Well, you certainly shouldn't compromise on the "no liars" thing!

Compromise is important, but only if both people are willing to do it. Don't waste your time with someone who isn't also willing to compromise.

I learned a long time ago, you need to pick your battles. The stuff that really matters, fight for it. If it doesn't matter, let it slide. A lot of times, it's a lot easier to let things slide than duking it out.


----------



## FeministInPink

Miss Independent said:


> I don't have anything to say other than *hugs*


Thanks.


----------



## FeministInPink

Flower still can't keep any food down, apparently. The surgery was on Tuesday. She should be able to eat by now. I am worried, and of course I am not there. If I am worried, someone who does not get attached to animals, I can't fathom how Real Estate feels right now.

I'm thinking he might bail on the Africa trip and miss his friend's wedding. He won't leave Flower with anyone else if she's not 100% better.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Flower still can't keep any food down, apparently. The surgery was on Tuesday. She should be able to eat by now. I am worried, and of course I am not there. If I am worried, someone who does not get attached to animals, I can't fathom how Real Estate feels right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking he might bail on the Africa trip and miss his friend's wedding. He won't leave Flower with anyone else if she's not 100% better.




My little Lukas picked a fight with a German Shepherd last summer and lost badly. 2 surgeries. He wouldn't eat either for the longest time. Lost weight that he couldn't afford to lose. Scared the crap out of me. Water is key. Make sure Flower is having plenty. 

I had just earned my 2 weeks of bonus pay for 20 years of service at werk. Spent almost all of it on the couch by my baby giving him water & mopping up his wounds. Thank god I had the time. There wouldn't have been anything in this world that I would have gone to instead of being right there with him. 

Speaking of "flower"...









Now...who could leave that face in his time of need?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

One other thing fip...at Flowers age, death is sure to happen sooner than later even if she pulls through this. She has had a long and happy life. Try to encourage that train of thought. Death is inevitable. It is a part of living. Hang in there lady. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> One other thing fip...at Flowers age, death is sure to happen sooner than later even if she pulls through this. She has had a long and happy life. Try to encourage that train of thought. Death is inevitable. It is a part of living. Hang in there lady.


We are both aware of that. I came to know Real Estate and Flower only in the last year, and when I learned how old she was, I knew that event if my relationship with him wasn't meant to be long LTR, that she would likely pass during our relationship. It's something I have been preparing myself for. (Which now that I think about it, is how I have dealt with every death in my life... I wasn't prepared when my grandfather passed away; it was a huge shock, and I was devastated. My reaction to start thinking about what it would mean to 

He knows it's coming, and he's not ready for it. He doesn't want to think about it, because its too painful, so when he starts to think about it, he rug-sweeps on himself.

I do remind him that she's been happy with him and that she's had a good life. I'm not sure how much that has helped.

*BUT THE GOOD NEWS...* Real Estate texted me while I was writing this post. Flower was able to eat something last night, and she was able to keep it down. I'm not a religious person, but... thank GOD!


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> My little Lukas picked a fight with a German Shepherd last summer and lost badly. 2 surgeries. He wouldn't eat either for the longest time. Lost weight that he couldn't afford to lose. Scared the crap out of me. Water is key. Make sure Flower is having plenty.


She had been, at least, getting plenty of water.


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Breathe. Doubts are normal. (I even do it sometimes with Real Estate.) It's just your brain working overtime.
> 
> Don't worry about 2-3 years from now. No one knows what's gonna happen 2-3 years from now. If you talk to him about it, be prepared to tell him what he can do to help ease your fears. He will ask. If he doesn't, you should tell him. Figure out what you _need_, and let him provide it. But he can't provide it if he doesn't know.
> 
> Love is important. Everyone needs love. Babies literally die if they don't get it. If this is something you fear, tell him you need to take things slow. Establish boundaries for yourself and for him. And read some books to help you work through this, because you're the only one who can heal you.


Thank you, FIP. I needed this. I have a great group of friends I see every Saturday morning, and they said very similar things to me. I need to sit him down and tell him that I am enjoying the right now of us. I need to explain to him that I cannot look to the future. It's too frightening for me. I can't talk about love, I can't talk about long term plans. It's a little... stifling. I need slow, I need one day at a time. I will tell him all of that and see where that conversation takes us. I'm seeing a guy who is definitely not a douche canoe. I want to give that a chance. 

I'm healing... I am moving forward... but I am definitely still broken. Nothing like being reminded of that.


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## Miss Independent

.


----------



## FeministInPink

Real Estate called me earlier today, and we had a nice afternoon... he needed to buy a new pair of khakis/slacks for this wedding in Africa, and he wanted my help shopping. So we went and bought him some slacks (he was not happy that we had to go to a big and tall store, but it is what it is), and the we had lunch. While we were shopping, he got a call from a prospective client about a property, so after lunch, it was bring your (not)girlfriend to work! He showed two properties (which I've already seen), and then he dropped me off at home. I may or may not go over to his place tonight--he was on the fence, and he said he would leave it up to me. I still have a lot of work to do this weekend, especially since I spent the afternoon with him, so I may end up staying home. That may be best for him, since Flower still needs a lot of care and attention right now. But I might still go... my psychic friend Katie said that Flower is really scared right now, and because Flower loves me so much, it might be good for her to see me. So, I will see how much work I can get done tonight... I would like to see her, too, not just Real Estate.

But he's in much better spirits, now that Flower's been able to keep down some food. He was able to sort out all the problems with the missing files at work, so that is taken care of now. It was really good to see him.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Real Estate called me earlier today, and we had a nice afternoon... he needed to buy a new pair of khakis/slacks for this wedding in Africa, and he wanted my help shopping. So we went and bought him some slacks (he was not happy that we had to go to a big and tall store, but it is what it is), and the we had lunch. While we were shopping, he got a call from a prospective client about a property, so after lunch, it was bring your (not)girlfriend to work! He showed two properties (which I've already seen), and then he dropped me off at home. I may or may not go over to his place tonight--he was on the fence, and he said he would leave it up to me. I still have a lot of work to do this weekend, especially since I spent the afternoon with him, so I may end up staying home. That may be best for him, since Flower still needs a lot of care and attention right now. But I might still go... my psychic friend Katie said that Flower is really scared right now, and because Flower loves me so much, it might be good for her to see me. So, I will see how much work I can get done tonight... I would like to see her, too, not just Real Estate.
> 
> But he's in much better spirits, now that Flower's been able to keep down some food. He was able to sort out all the problems with the missing files at work, so that is taken care of now. It was really good to see him.


I'm glad you were able to spend some time together, and very glad some of Real Estate's stressors are somewhat improved!


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## GuyInColorado

BOOM! Now the future begins.


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## FeministInPink

Congrats, Guy. You make a cute couple. Best of luck!


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## bkyln309

GuyInColorado said:


> BOOM! Now the future begins.



Thrilled for you both. Congratulations. You two look so happy!


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> I'm glad you were able to spend some time together, and very glad some of Real Estate's stressors are somewhat improved!


Me, too. We've agreed we'll get together on Thursday night and I'll stay over, even though it's a school night, so we'll have some time together before he leaves on Friday. I'm hoping we can get together tonight for dinner, or maybe tomorrow night after he has trivia. We don't do a good job of making plans in advance... we play fast and loose, I guess!


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## GA HEART

LOVE the proposal pics!!!!! Congrats!


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## Haiku

FIP - I hope you have a nice evening together. 

Congratulations GuyInColorado. She looks genuinely surprised and happy. She's very pretty...you're a nice looking couple.


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## *Deidre*

Congrats to you GuyinColorado!! I'm so happy for you guys!


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## lovelygirl

SIngle-Mingle here...
I've been pretty much like this for the most part of my life. 

I either fall for guys who are already taken or the un-taken guys whom I don't like, fall for me.
So yeah...it's bad luck.

Except for casual dating, I've been free from exclusive relationships most of the time.


----------



## albertamom3

Hi,

I have not been to TAM for a few months.
I am separated 7 months and could really use some advice.

Here's a quick history.

Married 15 years, together over 20 years. 3 Beautiful children.
about a year after my daughter was born, I came to TAM because my husband told me he needed more sex and was miserable.
I was consumed with my children. I started panicking and wondering what was wrong with me, I had completely lost my sex drive.
Hind sight is everything as I realize now what was happening.
Anyways, found out in June 2016 he had been cheating since my daughter was born.(6 years)
We separated right away.

My question is not entirely related to my history as TAM helped me through these things, so I figured I would ask for help again.

So, since being single/separated
my sex drive has gone into overload! WTH
sad because if it had been this way while I was married chances are good we would not be getting a divorce.
I am so confused and frustrated by this!
Is this normal?


----------



## FeministInPink

It's totally normal! Your hormones know you're a free agent, and they go into overdrive 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananapeel

It's very normal for two big reasons. The thought of a potential new partner(s) is exciting and tends to rev the motor. Also, your decreased libido with your STBXWH was probably due to a combination of stress, lack of connection, and focus on your family/mother roles, and those are now in-flux. I probably shouldn't say this but a lot of LD people are only LD with their current partner. A change in situation/partner can easily reignite their drive.


----------



## FeministInPink

A little bummed today... Real Estate is leaving for Africa today, and I won't see him for a week and a half! Even though I ended up having to work late last night, we were able to get together last night and I stayed over. It was nice to re-connect after the last two weeks, which were stressful for both of us (aside from all of his stuff, I had a LOT going on at work and was very busy and stressed). So little time together--not to mention very little physical contact--left me feeling quite disconnected from him. (Quality time and physical touch are my love languages.) I'm feeling much better now, even though I'm sad he will be gone.

I have a lot of chores and such to keep me occupied while he is away, and I am looking forward to getting so much accomplished, even though I will miss him. He will have his phone with him, but unless he can get WiFi he'll be out of touch for pretty much the entire trip, too.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## albertamom3

I was never LD prior to having kids. Obviously you don't always see what's right in front of your face. There was a massive disconnect with us, covered up by a busy life with our kids!
It's surprising to me to feel this but also a relief!
Just turned 40 as well, Crazy!
I can't seem to find much reading on the subject, so I'm glad for the Info/help!


----------



## GuyInColorado

I was LD for my entire marriage. I hated my wife and had 0 attraction for her. Hell, no oral sex at all even before marriage. Didn't have sex for the last 4 years. Yep, 100% no sex. Everyone always thinks I'm lying when I tell them this because they can't wrap their minds around it! I left her 13 months ago and the sex now is amazing with someone that I actually like/love/desire. Enjoy your new life!


----------



## TooNice

When I was married, I was exhausted from running the household, going to school and work, studying and life. On top of that, I was regularly beat down by little comments and made to feel pretty worthless. 

It's not surprising that I found it difficult to engage in acts of intimacy. Sadly, I am fairly certain my story is not an uncommon one (for both men and women).

Now, I am empowered and confident. That alone makes me feel sexy, but being with a man who tells me how great I am and appreciates the time we spend together just adds to it. 

You deserve this - enjoy!


----------



## RandomDude

Just got back from vacation... think I'll be keeping cuddlebunny >.>


----------



## FeministInPink

Awe, RD! I'm happy for you... it sounds like you've finally found someone who's a good fit and who meets your expectations.

If she ever falls short of meeting those expectations, remember that we are all human and imperfect, and strive to remember why you chose her in the first place.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

Yeah, for the first time in a long time it really feels real, like, she's "the one" kinda. She isn't perfect, like I can be completely lost in thought sometimes and she takes time to 'get me' in certain topics. We are also opposites in so many little ways, I like savoury, she likes sweet, she doesn't like the room too cold I like the air con on full blast, when we shower I like it hot she likes it warm, I like heels, she doesn't like it cause it hurts her feet, I like lots of lights and mirrors and she likes the lights dim with no mirrors, she comes from an intact, honorable immediate family with lots of extended family, I have no one either than my daughter, not close to my father or mother and no siblings. She is very well-tempered, my temper can go out of control. But everything just makes us click in ways I simply don't understand.

It's like this:









I simply don't care about her imperfections, and she doesn't seem to care about mine, it just clicks, jigsaw puzzle pieces aren't exactly cut in straight lines anyway right? Heh

But yeah, guess it finally happened


----------



## ne9907

I am going away for training for two weeks. I am extremely nervous about this training. 

I have been seeing a lot of my friend, we spent the weekend together, he has a way to put me at ease at erase all my fears/stress yet validating my feelings. I am unsure of how I feel about him. Sometimes I feel as if I love him, then other times I feel it is not possible because he isn't good for me (not financially stable mainly).

However, I am financially stable so.... (?).

I am stressing out a lot about the upcoming training, so Saturday night, I went to sleep early. I woke up from a nightmare. In my nightmare the ex husband was in the adjacent room and was going to kill me. I had never been so afraid in my life before. I totally lost myself guys. I knew that if I had not left the ex, he would have killed me. I felt I had to justify myself for leaving ex because he was going to kill me.... even now, I feel paranoid.

So anyway, I woke up, I could hear my friend in the living room coughing. I cant explain the events guys. But I felt as if my friend WAS not with me, but ex husband. I felt as if I was back in OK living with ex, I felt I was in the room alone, while ex was plotting to kill me.... I could not move for a few minutes, I could not breath, I could only be quiet and wait for ex to come in the room. I felt as if ex was a sociopath that never cared about my safety and was going to kill me (I know truly believe this is the case).

Anyway, after about 10 minutes, I could not control my fear and ran out of my room, I saw my friend was in the living room and not ex (like I believed) and I sat on the couch. My friend saw the distress I was in and held me, calmed me, until I fell asleep again.

I don't understand what happened to me.... When I lived with the ex, I never truly feared him. I fear him so much now.... I am crying as I am typing this... maybe it is a combination of everything. The stress, the feelings I am having for my friend, everything!!

Wish me luck on my training!


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> I am going away for training for two weeks. I am extremely nervous about this training.
> 
> I have been seeing a lot of my friend, we spent the weekend together, he has a way to put me at ease at erase all my fears/stress yet validating my feelings. I am unsure of how I feel about him. Sometimes I feel as if I love him, then other times I feel it is not possible because he isn't good for me (not financially stable mainly).
> 
> However, I am financially stable so.... (?).
> 
> I am stressing out a lot about the upcoming training, so Saturday night, I went to sleep early. I woke up from a nightmare. In my nightmare the ex husband was in the adjacent room and was going to kill me. I had never been so afraid in my life before. I totally lost myself guys. I knew that if I had not left the ex, he would have killed me. I felt I had to justify myself for leaving ex because he was going to kill me.... even now, I feel paranoid.
> 
> So anyway, I woke up, I could hear my friend in the living room coughing. I cant explain the events guys. But I felt as if my friend WAS not with me, but ex husband. I felt as if I was back in OK living with ex, I felt I was in the room alone, while ex was plotting to kill me.... I could not move for a few minutes, I could not breath, I could only be quiet and wait for ex to come in the room. I felt as if ex was a sociopath that never cared about my safety and was going to kill me (I know truly believe this is the case).
> 
> Anyway, after about 10 minutes, I could not control my fear and ran out of my room, I saw my friend was in the living room and not ex (like I believed) and I sat on the couch. My friend saw the distress I was in and held me, calmed me, until I fell asleep again.
> 
> I don't understand what happened to me.... When I lived with the ex, I never truly feared him. I fear him so much now.... I am crying as I am typing this... maybe it is a combination of everything. The stress, the feelings I am having for my friend, everything!!
> 
> Wish me luck on my training!


Good luck with the training!

It sounds like you had something of a panic attack, which isn't surprising given how stressed you are about the training. I'm glad your friend was there and able to comfort you.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, for the first time in a long time it really feels real, like, she's "the one" kinda. She isn't perfect, like I can be completely lost in thought sometimes and she takes time to 'get me' in certain topics. We are also opposites in so many little ways, I like savoury, she likes sweet, she doesn't like the room too cold I like the air con on full blast, when we shower I like it hot she likes it warm, I like heels, she doesn't like it cause it hurts her feet, I like lots of lights and mirrors and she likes the lights dim with no mirrors, she comes from an intact, honorable immediate family with lots of extended family, I have no one either than my daughter, not close to my father or mother and no siblings. She is very well-tempered, my temper can go out of control. But everything just makes us click in ways I simply don't understand.
> 
> It's like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I simply don't care about her imperfections, and she doesn't seem to care about mine, it just clicks, jigsaw puzzle pieces aren't exactly cut in straight lines anyway right? Heh
> 
> But yeah, guess it finally happened


Sound a lot like me and Real Estate


----------



## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> I am going away for training for two weeks. I am extremely nervous about this training.
> 
> I have been seeing a lot of my friend, we spent the weekend together, he has a way to put me at ease at erase all my fears/stress yet validating my feelings. I am unsure of how I feel about him. Sometimes I feel as if I love him, then other times I feel it is not possible because he isn't good for me (not financially stable mainly).
> 
> However, I am financially stable so.... (?).
> 
> I am stressing out a lot about the upcoming training, so Saturday night, I went to sleep early. I woke up from a nightmare. In my nightmare the ex husband was in the adjacent room and was going to kill me. I had never been so afraid in my life before. I totally lost myself guys. I knew that if I had not left the ex, he would have killed me. I felt I had to justify myself for leaving ex because he was going to kill me.... even now, I feel paranoid.
> 
> So anyway, I woke up, I could hear my friend in the living room coughing. I cant explain the events guys. But I felt as if my friend WAS not with me, but ex husband. I felt as if I was back in OK living with ex, I felt I was in the room alone, while ex was plotting to kill me.... I could not move for a few minutes, I could not breath, I could only be quiet and wait for ex to come in the room. I felt as if ex was a sociopath that never cared about my safety and was going to kill me (I know truly believe this is the case).
> 
> Anyway, after about 10 minutes, I could not control my fear and ran out of my room, I saw my friend was in the living room and not ex (like I believed) and I sat on the couch. My friend saw the distress I was in and held me, calmed me, until I fell asleep again.
> 
> I don't understand what happened to me.... When I lived with the ex, I never truly feared him. I fear him so much now.... I am crying as I am typing this... maybe it is a combination of everything. The stress, the feelings I am having for my friend, everything!!
> 
> Wish me luck on my training!


It never ceases to amaze me the ways our brains can manifest our fears. I'm sorry that was such an intense experience for you, but it's lovely that your friend was able to help calm you. 

Best of luck with your training - I'm sure it will all go well!


----------



## TooNice

Thought I would give a quick little update. I am still seeing my guy, and becoming more comfortable each time I see him. I was with some friends this weekend - two who have met him and knew my concerns when I was freaking out, and two who just learned I was seeing someone. They made me laugh, because I mentioned to the group how I had been struggling a little but it's nice to be coming around. My two friends said GOOD - he's awesome, they know it, and it's nice that I am finally on board with their assessment.  So, I guess my friends approve. (But I did not escape a few rounds of ribbing about being a cougar...)

It is hard to not think about the age difference, but overall, we are both fine. I am grateful that my son is away at school, though. I have said since my divorce that I don't want to have him meet anyone until I feel it is someone who might be around for a bit. The fact that I am dating someone just 10 years older than my son does add a new layer to the conversation. I think he will always be happy for me as long as he sees me being treated well, but I am glad to not have to have this conversation just yet. 

Schedules are a bit crazy this week, so I may not see him until Saturday. But we have some nice low key plans with another couple, and plans for brunch on Sunday. I am finding myself easing into a comfort level that I am really enjoying. He calls me on the phone to talk about our days when we don't see each other, and I feel very comfortable that I can be honest with him about anything that comes up. Aside from my freak out about talking about the future, nothing really has come up, but it's good to feel like I don't have to stress if something does. 

It's only been about 5 weeks of exclusive dating, but this is the healthiest relationship I have had in a very, very long time. At this moment, I am very content.


----------



## FeministInPink

@TooNice, don't worry too much about the age difference. Real Estate is 11 yrs older than me. It bothers him more than it bothers me... maybe bothers isn't the right word. He brings it up sometimes (both in positive and negative connotations), whereas I never even think about the age difference. Compatibility and the fact that someone treats you well is much more important than age.

Just enjoy it, and see where it goes.


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## Lifescript

I've been MIA. Hope everyone is doing ok. 

Congrats Guy!! You guys look good together. 

She looks like a good kind hearted person. Wish you both happiness man.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice, don't worry too much about the age difference. Real Estate is 11 yrs older than me. It bothers him more than it bothers me... maybe bothers isn't the right word. He brings it up sometimes (both in positive and negative connotations), whereas I never even think about the age difference. Compatibility and the fact that someone treats you well is much more important than age.
> 
> Just enjoy it, and see where it goes.


You are right, the age difference doesn't necessarily *bother* either of us, but it does bring up things that need to be talked about on occasion. It really is far more important to us that we can be honest with each other and enjoy the time that we are spending together. 

And hey- I just realized that today is my 2 year divorcaversary. Wow... that's kind of crazy.


----------



## TooNice

Lifescript said:


> I've been MIA. Hope everyone is doing ok.


Nice to hear from you, LS! How have you been?


----------



## Lifescript

TooNice said:


> Nice to hear from you, LS! How have you been?


Hey TooNice, 

I've been alright. Busy in many fronts, work, life, etc. 

Was dating someone who is a real nice woman and has so many of the traits I'm looking for. Her interest level was high at some point but then went down. And I didn't help the situation by getting attached too soon as I usually do. 

This one was the wake up call I needed.

Will handle things much better moving forward. How are things with you?


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> You are right, the age difference doesn't necessarily *bother* either of us, but it does bring up things that need to be talked about on occasion. It really is far more important to us that we can be honest with each other and enjoy the time that are spending together.
> 
> And hey- I just realized that today is my 2 year divorcaversary. Wow... that's kind of crazy.


I just had my third this past December... I can't believe it's been three years already!!! Time really flies... Real Estate and I have been together for almost a year now. I kind of can't believe that, either. At some point, he will realize that this/us might actually stick, and hey! maybe FiP is the one who will last, that this is for real.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Hey TooNice,
> 
> I've been alright. Busy in many fronts, work, life, etc.
> 
> Was dating someone who is a real nice woman and has so many of the traits I'm looking for. Her interest level was high at some point but then went down. And I didn't help the situation by getting attached too soon as I usually do.
> 
> This one was the wake up call I needed.
> 
> Will handle things much better moving forward. How are things with you?


She just decided it wasn't right for her. When the right one comes along, neither of you will lose interest, and the getting attached part won't bother either one.


----------



## Haiku

I'm still pretty sure I'm not wanting to date, but I decided I'm not opposed to just some clean friendly conversation. 

Well, I joined a free site just to chat. I checked my in-box later to find out my name is actually "Dear" and that "age" is just a number, and I should Skype to get to know them all better. Good Lord. I think I'm going back into my hole with that groundhog.


----------



## TooNice

Haiku said:


> I'm still pretty sure I'm not wanting to date, but I decided I'm not opposed to just some clean friendly conversation.
> 
> Well, I joined a free site just to chat. I checked my in-box later to find out my name is actually "Dear" and that "age" is just a number, and I should Skype to get to know them all better. Good Lord. I think I'm going back into my hole with that groundhog.


Yeah, I'm afraid online dating and clean friendly conversation are rarely things that actually go together. 

Sorry. :/


----------



## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> Yeah, I'm afraid online dating and clean friendly conversation are rarely things that actually go together.
> 
> Sorry. :/




Agreed 100%. After trying different sites for a little over a year, I backed out of everything a couple weeks ago. 

I finally got a contract on my house and signed for a new one. I'm sure I'll be busy settling in for quite a while but my plan after that is to get out more with my dogs and maybe I'll meet a nice fella that's getting out more with his dogs  

Point being to submerse myself in things I like to do and hopefully find a kindred spirit who's doing the same. 

F*ck some online dating. Seriously!

Happy Friday all!
)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Agreed 100%. After trying different sites for a little over a year, I backed out of everything a couple weeks ago.
> 
> I finally got a contract on my house and signed for a new one. I'm sure I'll be busy settling in for quite a while but my plan after that is to get out more with my dogs and maybe I'll meet a nice fella that's getting out more with his dogs
> 
> Point being to submerse myself in things I like to do and hopefully find a kindred spirit who's doing the same.
> 
> F*ck some online dating. Seriously!
> 
> Happy Friday all!
> )


In person meeting can be just as tough to navigate, but the odds are slightly better. It seems silly, but one of the things I still appreciate about the guy I am seeing is that when we met - at a bar - he asked if I'd like to go out for coffee sometime. And then, we went out for coffee a few times. Kind of remarkable. :grin2:


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> In person meeting can be just as tough to navigate, but the odds are slightly better. It seems silly, but one of the things I still appreciate about the guy I am seeing is that when we met - at a bar - he asked if I'd like to go out for coffee sometime. And then, we went out for coffee a few times. Kind of remarkable. :grin2:


Agree. I had almost nothing but bad experiences, including the guy who tried to lure me into his hotel room and then cornered me and shoved his tongue down my throat in an elevator, even after I made it pretty clear that the whole date wasn't working for me (after having only spent maybe 10-15 mins together.

A month or so after I deleted all mo OLD accounts, I met Real Estate at a happy hour hosted by a mutual friend, and that was that... I definitely think in-person is better.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Agree. I had almost nothing but bad experiences, including the guy who tried to lure me into his hotel room and then cornered me and shoved his tongue down my throat in an elevator, even after I made it pretty clear that the whole date wasn't working for me (after having only spent maybe 10-15 mins together.
> 
> A month or so after I deleted all mo OLD accounts, I met Real Estate at a happy hour hosted by a mutual friend, and that was that... I definitely think in-person is better.


Oh... I remember that one. That was scary!

I think in person allows you to be a little more open minded, as well. My guy certainly would have fallen outside of my age range in OLD, but meeting the way we did, I definitely thought he was older than he is. I'm glad to have had the chance to get to know him. I would have written him off right away if we had met online... like I did with all of the other younger guys who sent the "do you ever date younger men...?" messages.


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Oh... I remember that one. That was scary!
> 
> I think in person allows you to be a little more open minded, as well. My guy certainly would have fallen outside of my age range in OLD, but meeting the way we did, I definitely thought he was older than he is. I'm glad to have had the chance to get to know him. I would have written him off right away if we had met online... like I did with all of the other younger guys who sent the "do you ever date younger men...?" messages.


Yes! Real Estate is outside the age range that I was looking for in OLD, but in person... he looks good for his age. Aside from the salt and pepper hair, I wouldn't think he was 48... and I've known much younger men to have S&P hair. I don't want to say that he has a youthful personality, because that just makes him sound immature, but he kind of does--he's kind of goofy and silly. But now that I know him, there are other things about him that make me think, what a lovable curmudgeon! So, in some ways, he is older than his age, I think... or maybe he's just persnickety.

Anyway! I might have missed him totally on OLD because of the age difference.

Ugh, I hate the "do you ever date older/younger men?" messages. It just screams "I have no self-confidence!!!"


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Yes! Real Estate is outside the age range that I was looking for in OLD, but in person... he looks good for his age. Aside from the salt and pepper hair, I wouldn't think he was 48... and I've known much younger men to have S&P hair. I don't want to say that he has a youthful personality, because that just makes him sound immature, but he kind of does--he's kind of goofy and silly. But now that I know him, there are other things about him that make me think, what a lovable curmudgeon! So, in some ways, he is older than his age, I think... or maybe he's just persnickety.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway! I might have missed him totally on OLD because of the age difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, I hate the "do you ever date older/younger men?" messages. It just screams "I have no self-confidence!!!"




YESSSS! And the ones that say "no drama". Or "no games". Or "no cheaters". 

The first thing that comes to my mind is that this was the last experience they had, and that they probably are not over it yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

Well ... I joined Match and POF over a month ago and have done nothing with it. I did create a profile and uploaded some pics. 

Some women supposedly want to meet me or messaged me but I have to pay to read those msgs ... meh.

I thought POF was free. 

I wanted to do the online dating thing but I think I'm also going to stick to offline, real life interactions.


----------



## RandomDude

All this relationship stuff makes me feel so soft and jelly and annoyed. Annoyed that suddenly there's emotional needs we both have to give each other. On holidays it was so easy, but now with reality setting back in with our individual lives, now it's tested. Not used to all this, find myself nostalgic over the time when we were on holidays or even when we were just FWBs.

Damn human reproductive hormones!


----------



## Haiku

FeministInPink said:


> Agree. I had almost nothing but bad experiences, including the guy who tried to lure me into his hotel room and then cornered me and shoved his tongue down my throat in an elevator, even after I made it pretty clear that the whole date wasn't working for me (after having only spent maybe 10-15 mins together.
> 
> A month or so after I deleted all mo OLD accounts, I met Real Estate at a happy hour hosted by a mutual friend, and that was that... I definitely think in-person is better.


What?!? Good grief what an experience. Best wishes to RE and you.


----------



## FeministInPink

Haiku said:


> What?!? Good grief what an experience. Best wishes to RE and you.


Oh, yeah... that guy was an absolute creep. One of my reasons for deciding to ditch OLD.

Real Estate is a real find. He's a diamond, but he doesn't know it.


----------



## FeministInPink

Real Estate gets back tomorrow! I'm picking him up from the airport in the evening. I can't wait to see him!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> All this relationship stuff makes me feel so soft and jelly and annoyed. Annoyed that suddenly there's emotional needs we both have to give each other. On holidays it was so easy, but now with reality setting back in with our individual lives, now it's tested. Not used to all this, find myself nostalgic over the time when we were on holidays or even when we were just FWBs.
> 
> Damn human reproductive hormones!


RD, that's what a relationship is! SMH.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Real Estate gets back tomorrow! I'm picking him up from the airport in the evening. I can't wait to see him!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




How is Flower?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> How is Flower?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She was doing well when he left a week and a half ago. Flower is "vacationing" with his XW's sister, who is a dog groomer and who adores Flower.

Since he's been gone, we've only had one brief convo via text when he was able to get on WiFi. So I don't know if he's been in touch with her, but I doubt it, unless there was an emergency, and he would've told me about that.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, yeah... that guy was an absolute creep. One of my reasons for deciding to ditch OLD.
> 
> Real Estate is a real find. He's a diamond, but he doesn't know it.


I remember you telling us about the elevator guy. what a ****ing douche canoe. Glad you found one of the good guys.


----------



## FeministInPink

TheGoodGuy said:


> I remember you telling us about the elevator guy. what a ****ing douche canoe. Glad you found one of the good guys.


I KNOW!!! Second worst dating experience ever for me. (The first is a LONG story sating back to my college days, which I will not recount here, as it will take FAR too long to tell.)

And thanks


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> RD, that's what a relationship is! SMH.


Not used to it anymore :|

Luckily she's very patient with me


----------



## Haiku

Douche canoe? 😂

Okay, so here's an update. After two years I don't understand why I'm still not eager to date again. However, lately I've been feeling a bit lonely but nothing fierce. I don't really know what's behind that feeling...maybe I want a bit of positive attention? Meh, I know you're not my doctor so I'll omit more of my personal psychoanalysis. 

Anyway, I joined a site hoping to find someone(s) who might like to begin by trading a few messages and if something develops from that then okee-doke-kee. 

Boy has this ever been an eye opening experience. After reviewing my local options I change the range to 200 miles because it wouldn't accept Venus as a valid search distance. 
Now after exhausting the 200 mile radias I'm feeling it necessary to change my profile summary from "not feeling desperate" to date to "oh sweet Jesus I'm in big trouble."

😆


----------



## Haiku

TheGoodGuy said:


> Glad you found one of the good guys.


Yeah, and there's very few of us left, right? 😄


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Haiku said:


> Douche canoe? 😂


It's been one of my favorites since I heard it a while ago. One online dictionary has it defined as: "Possibly the largest form of douche-ness. When someone is being so shady that the common douche bag is unable to resolve."


----------



## Lifescript

Guys, 

Which is the best site out of POF and OKC?


----------



## FeministInPink

Haiku said:


> Yeah, and there's very few of us left, right? 😄


It's true, there aren't that many out there, or they are hiding.

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## FeministInPink

Lifescript said:


> Guys,
> 
> Which is the best site out of POF and OKC?


I found OKC to be slightly better. (Elevator Assault Guy came from POF.)

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## Haiku

FeministInPink said:


> I found OKC to be slightly better. (Elevator Assault Guy came from POF.)



OKC? Is that Ok Cupid?

Now to give evidence that I've been out of touch too long, I've always thought POF was "Pieces of Fish". I just accepted it was a dating site but never understood why they chose a name like that.


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## Lifescript

FeministInPink said:


> I found OKC to be slightly better. (Elevator Assault Guy came from POF.)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Ok. Yikes! Elevator dude ... he's lucky you didn't call the cops. He crossed the line big time. 

From what I can see ... 

Match
OKC
POF 

In that order. Women on Match look like they have their life in order. Just from what I can see in their profiles ... seem like a more professional crowd there but have to pay to send msgs.


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## Lifescript

Haiku said:


> OKC? Is that Ok Cupid?
> 
> Now to give evidence that I've been out of touch too long, I've always thought POF was "Pieces of Fish". I just accepted it was a dating site but never understood why they chose a name like that.


Plenty of Fish 

Lol


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## Elizabeth001

OWW GAAWWWD! PLEASE stay away from POF. 



ETA: unless you're a bottom feeder


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## Elizabeth001

Hey Carlos...sup? Didn't I see you on my POF account? 

BWAAAHAAAHAAA!
 


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## 225985

Elizabeth001 said:


> OWW GAAWWWD! PLEASE stay away from POF.
> 
> 
> 
> ETA: unless you're a bottom feeder




Why? What's bad with it?


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## Elizabeth001

blueinbr said:


> Why? What's bad with it?




My best guess is because it's mainly free. To an extent. I joined as an upgraded member so I really wasn't privy to this information. I think if people are serious about it, they will invest money in it. Just a personal impression of mine. 

Oh my gosh… I don't even know where to start! The types of guys I met:

-2 opioid addicts (you don't figure it out until you've invested A LOT of time). If you are plugged into the news at all, you know already that there's an epidemic across the country. Supposedly, I'm looking for a guy that acts like he's high on heroin… Only just natural, like me 

-LOTS of guys that are NOT over past relationships, but are lonely. These would be the types that have somewhere in their profile where it states "no", as in "drama", "games", "cheaters", etc. You can pretty much guess what they've been through and are not over. Talk about GAMES...ya think? ROFL

"Phobes" of all kind. Those people don't get out much. This is why I refused people with weight (don't bash...just my opinion for meee . I would not be able to hang with a sedentary person or someone with no self-control (once again, my personal taste)

Shy guys. They feel safe behind a computer. AKA=low self esteem. 

Introverts. 

Distance. You rarely see each other and when you do, it's more like a holiday weekend. I tended to fall in love with that, which is a whole different scenario of Monday through Friday paying the bills and buying the toilet paper. Oh… Did I mention the farting? 

OMG...that is just a taste. 

OMG...I should TOTALLY write a book!

Woot!


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## TooNice

My vote would be for *******. It's the one I have gone back to the most, and had the most in person dates from. Plenty of Fish was a steady stream of dead-end conversations. A guy would talk for a day or two and then go dark. Or get creepy. 

I waited to do Match until my divorce was officially final. In my head, there was something more concrete about a paid site, more legitimate or something, that would make it more serious once I was single. In a full year of membership (six months of which were free based on their "guarantee"), I had one date. And more propositions than I care to recall. Not worth it, for me.


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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> OMG...I should TOTALLY write a book!


Lol! I few of us have talked about the shared royalties we could enjoy if we pooled our experiences to write a book. We've all got some great stories!


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> My vote would be for *******. It's the one I have gone back to the most, and had the most in person dates from. Plenty of Fish was a steady stream of dead-end conversations. A guy would talk for a day or two and then go dark. Or get creepy.
> 
> 
> 
> I waited to do Match until my divorce was officially final. In my head, there was something more concrete about a paid site, more legitimate or something, that would make it more serious once I was single. In a full year of membership (six months of which were free based on their "guarantee"), I had one date. And more propositions than I care to recall. Not worth it, for me.




I'm feelin' the sistahood  ^5


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> Lol! I few of us have talked about the shared royalties we could enjoy if we pooled our experiences to write a book. We've all got some great stories!




I'm in! I'm in! 


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## FeministInPink

Real Estate is home! His flight arrived 25 mins early, so I missed him at the terminal and met him in baggage claim instead. They forgot to put his luggage on the plane when he switched planes in Boston! Everyone who had the same plane transfer was missing their luggage, apparently.

But the Havana Club rum he bought for me in Duty Free made it just fine! 

Even though the flight landed early, it was still a very late flight, and he was exhausted... he left Nairobi 26 or 27 hours earlier. So he stayed awake long enough to show me his pics and videos. We had a long drive home from the airport, so he had plenty of time to tell me about the trip. Apparently, there isn't much to DO in Kenya, lol! He said there's the national park, and that's pretty much it.

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## FeministInPink

I'm so happy he's back 

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## RandomDude

Hell been so picky and refusing to settle for less when it comes to investing my emotions that I've convinced myself I would never find anyone more than ****buddies, only to finally find someone that somehow ticks the boxes and don't know how to deal with it. 

Yet despite cuddlebunny's virtues it's becoming apparent she's more into me than I am into her, she's is texting/calling me daily, I had to push her away to get some space recently because she goes nuts if I don't respond within a few hours. I think she's crazy about me now, which means me abit worried as I'm more of a slow-heating type of guy, kinda like to melt the ice first. She was like charging straight into my ice before, hurting herself in the process. Yet I wonder if she's being consumed by her lust, her love, or heaven forbid... consumed by the challenge.

I find myself having flashbacks of my past marriage, and failure to establish boundaries early.

... must establish boundaries... must establish boundaries... 

/end random thoughts
Peace


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## bkyln309

Hello all. How is everyone?

Apparently, my ex is going to marry in the next six months. Introduced the kids to her on Sunday and basically told them they will be engaged very soon. Also mentioned they would all live in her house after the marriage. Poor woman. She sounds like she has her stuff together. She is a teacher and owns a home and raised 4 boys (2 in college, 2 still in the home). My ex will happily romance her and then once married, his spending addiction and low sex drive will kick in. Not to mention, he doesnt have any motivation to work hard so she will have to constant push him to work. Im hoping she is good for the kids and maybe she can turn him around. I couldnt in 16 years but miracles can happen. 

I am not sad at all about it. I am happy she makes him happy (and I can forward all his collections calls to her).


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## vi_bride04

Just commenting to I can follow on tap tap app easier 

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## TooNice

Update on me... I am still seeing the younger guy, and still very much enjoying when we are together. I have a very large social circle, and he seems to be comfortable meeting my different sets of friends, which is great. I really love the nights when it is just us, too. We have had some great conversations this past week, including delving into why we haven't had sex yet. He brought up some very reasonable concerns on his end, and we simply talked through them. Like reasonable adults in a relationship.  I used the opportunity to reinforce to him that communication is a relationship imperative for me. If we can't bring things up and talk them through, then we sit on them and allow them to fester... and that is not a path I will go down again. As a result of all of this discussion, logic, and reasonability, he has taken to telling his friends that he is dating a woman who is "suspiciously normal". Lol - I'll gladly wear that title. 

We have a movie date tonight, and I am so looking forward to having him to myself for the evening.


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## prunus

I find it so strange to say I'm single now. I haven't been single in 27 years.


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> Update on me... I am still seeing the younger guy, and still very much enjoying when we are together. I have a very large social circle, and he seems to be comfortable meeting my different sets of friends, which is great. I really love the nights when it is just us, too. We have had some great conversations this past week, including delving into why we haven't had sex yet. He brought up some very reasonable concerns on his end, and we simply talked through them. Like reasonable adults in a relationship.  I used the opportunity to reinforce to him that communication is a relationship imperative for me. If we can't bring things up and talk them through, then we sit on them and allow them to fester... and that is not a path I will go down again. As a result of all of this discussion, logic, and reasonability, he has taken to telling his friends that he is dating a woman who is "suspiciously normal". Lol - I'll gladly wear that title.
> 
> 
> 
> We have a movie date tonight, and I am so looking forward to having him to myself for the evening.




Jelly


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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Jelly
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## sosotte

My life is a disaster. I got divorced 4 years ago now. I'm over it completely, but I'm jealous of him moving on so quickly. He met someone soon after we broke up (maybe they were seeing each others before we did??) and they moved in a year ago and seem to be very happy. Meanwhile, I've been struggling with meeting new people and I've had really bad experiences with the few men I did meet.

I turned 35 in September and started to get worried about not being in a stable relationship with anyone and wanting kids and running late. In December, I was fooling around with a friend and told him I didn't want to use protection because I was ready to have children, and so it happened and now I'm 3 months pregnant!

I couldn't be happier about expecting a child really, but I'm so worried about doing this alone, and everything going well. I live abroad and all my family is in a different country. I have very few friends, so I can't basically count on anyone to help me. I'm also worried about the child having only me. At first, the father wanted to do this together, but when I told him I didn't want to be in a relationship with him, he backed down and now doesn't seem to want to be in our lives at all.

I'm so scared also about being alone for the next few years and not being able to meet anyone else.


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## TooNice

sosotte said:


> My life is a disaster. I got divorced 4 years ago now. I'm over it completely, but I'm jealous of him moving on so quickly. He met someone soon after we broke up (maybe they were seeing each others before we did??) and they moved in a year ago and seem to be very happy. Meanwhile, I've been struggling with meeting new people and I've had really bad experiences with the few men I did meet.
> 
> I turned 35 in September and started to get worried about not being in a stable relationship with anyone and wanting kids and running late. In December, I was fooling around with a friend and told him I didn't want to use protection because I was ready to have children, and so it happened and now I'm 3 months pregnant!
> 
> I couldn't be happier about expecting a child really, but I'm so worried about doing this alone, and everything going well. I live abroad and all my family is in a different country. I have very few friends, so I can't basically count on anyone to help me. I'm also worried about the child having only me. At first, the father wanted to do this together, but when I told him I didn't want to be in a relationship with him, he backed down and now doesn't seem to want to be in our lives at all.
> 
> I'm so scared also about being alone for the next few years and not being able to meet anyone else.


Well, the good news is that you have six months to take control and plan for how will be be a single mom. Are there meet up groups or support groups in your area where you can connect with parents in similar situations? Contact local day care centers and churches to see what you can find. Are you in therapy? It sounds like you may have a few issues there you can still deal with. You get to be in control of what life looks like for you and your baby. But you need to start acting on that now. 

You'll be just fine.


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## TooNice

The guy I'm seeing (who am I kidding... I should just call him my boyfriend at some point here) and I had a nice night last night. I got a tad aggressive at the end of the night, but have no regrets.

I knew last night wouldn't be THE night, but when he brought me home, I told him to come in, and was very um... earnest... in my approach. It was fun, and we laughed a lot. And we were still pretty well-behaved. 

We were hoping to get together tonight, but it looks like we may still have to wait a bit before the next step. I'm okay with it... just enjoying the process. 

>


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## FeministInPink

@sosotte Some people move on quickly because they haven't learned anything from the end of their marriage, and they are destined to make the same mistakes. My XH was skirt chasing the minute we separated (despite the fact that we agreed in counseling that we were going to date one another and work on our relationship), and he had a serious girlfriend within 6 months, before anyone had even filed.

Your XH moving on has nothing to do with you. Don't compare yourself to him. It took me a lot of dating to find the guy I'm with now, and as great as Real Estate is, he still has a lot of baggage and commitment issues that we may never overcome. When all is said is done, I may spend several years with him and will still find myself alone when all is said and done.

My point is that you never know what the future will bring. Congratulations on your pregnancy! You ARE moving forward, whether you see it or not. You've already survived one of the worst things a person can go through. You are going to be FINE, no doubt. You got this!

If you're anxious about living so far from your family and raising a child on your own, have you considered moving back home?

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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> The guy I'm seeing (who am I kidding... I should just call him my boyfriend at some point here) and I had a nice night last night. I got a tad aggressive at the end of the night, but have no regrets.
> 
> I knew last night wouldn't be THE night, but when he brought me home, I told him to come in, and was very um... earnest... in my approach. It was fun, and we laughed a lot. And we were still pretty well-behaved.
> 
> We were hoping to get together tonight, but it looks like we may still have to wait a bit before the next step. I'm okay with it... just enjoying the process.
> 
> >


What's the hold up? You or him?


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## Ynot

Ok, so something I have noticed about myself as I venture out into the world of possibilities. If I think a woman is attractive to me. I start to make all sorts of assumptions about what they may want, what they might be like and start to revert back to my old self of trying to meet those needs. But when I meet a woman who may not be as attractive to me, I am more assertive about what I want and tend to be more confident. I realize that I go back to placing attractive women on a pedestal. Grrr! Lesson learned! I wouldn't have even recognized this before. Now I have discovered something new and will face this fear moving forward.


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> What's the hold up? You or him?


It's him. He told me some time ago that sex just complicates things. It was refreshing to hear, and I was happy to just enjoy getting to know each other. But we both agree now that we are ready for complicated. Timing just hasn't worked out since we talked. It will happen. 

But I hope it's soon. >


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> Ok, so something I have noticed about myself as I venture out into the world of possibilities. If I think a woman is attractive to me. I start to make all sorts of assumptions about what they may want, what they might be like and start to revert back to my old self of trying to meet those needs. But when I meet a woman who may not be as attractive to me, I am more assertive about what I want and tend to be more confident. I realize that I go back to placing attractive women on a pedestal. Grrr! Lesson learned! I wouldn't have even recognized this before. Now I have discovered something new and will face this fear moving forward.


Wow - that is some great personal insight! Good for you for recognizing that and making the decision to learn from it!


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> It's him. He told me some time ago that sex just complicates things. It was refreshing to hear, and I was happy to just enjoy getting to know each other. But we both agree now that we are ready for complicated. Timing just hasn't worked out since we talked. It will happen.
> 
> But I hope it's soon. >


It does tend to complicate things. But, at this point in our lives (post divorce) I would hope that more would understand, it is natural and healthy and necessary to see where a relationship can go. It need not be the complication we all tend to make it. I hope you have fun! I hope you learn a lot about yourself. Don't let him (or you) make it more complicated than it needs to be. It isn't so much the act as much as the expectations that make it complicated


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Wow - that is some great personal insight! Good for you for recognizing that and making the decision to learn from it!


Thanks. I have a second date with a woman that I reverted to my old ways with. Next time I will be more assertive and less reactive. If it goes well, it goes well. If it doesn't c'est la vie


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> It does tend to complicate things. But, at this point in our lives (post divorce) I would hope that more would understand, it is natural and healthy and necessary to see where a relationship can go. It need not be the complication we all tend to make it. I hope you have fun! I hope you learn a lot about yourself. Don't let him (or you) make it more complicated than it needs to be. It isn't so much the act as much as the expectations that make it complicated


I think he does realize that. He is a good deal younger than I am though, and never been married. He's had some bad experiences and is in self-preservation mode. I get it. As much as I have enjoyed getting to know myself as a single woman, it is really refreshing to be committed to someone who is real and honest and wants to know that we can have some real potential first. It's so rare to meet someone who isn't focused on having sex from the moment you connect. I find that I am genuinely excited about being with him... in a way I haven't experienced since I got back on the dating scene. It's kinda great.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> I think he does realize that. He is a good deal younger than I am though, and never been married. He's had some bad experiences and is in self-preservation mode. I get it. As much as I have enjoyed getting to know myself as a single woman, it is really refreshing to be committed to someone who is real and honest and wants to know that we can have some real potential first. It's so rare to meet someone who isn't focused on having sex from the moment you connect. I find that I am genuinely excited about being with him... in a way I haven't experienced since I got back on the dating scene. It's kinda great.


Cool!


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## Bananapeel

I went on a mini vacation so I could complete a bucket list item. I brought the woman I've been casually seeing for a few months and had one of the best times of my life with her on the trip. Totally mind blowing.


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## Another Planet

Hello everybody 
I was lost for a while there!....could not log in for the life of me... I hope everyone is doing well and I see there is a new thread started obviously and some new faces.


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## Elizabeth001

I'm not so new. I just like the dark corner 


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## FeministInPink

AP, how are you?!? You and Bleacher still going strong? 

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## Another Planet

FeministInPink said:


> AP, how are you?!? You and Bleacher still going strong?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Haha yep we are still going. Not sure where my story here paused but we moved in together and integrated. And I am good, going through some career changes atm and trying some new things out. 
I am very glad to see so many familiar faces! I can honestly say I don't think there is a day that goes by that I don't think about something or someone from this group...I would have made an appearance sooner just was constantly locked out cause I couldn't remember my password and user name combo. :smile2:


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## FeministInPink

Another Planet said:


> Haha yep we are still going. Not sure where my story here paused but we moved in together and integrated. And I am good, going through some career changes atm and trying some new things out.
> I am very glad to see so many familiar faces! I can honestly say I don't think there is a day that goes by that I don't think about something or someone from this group...I would have made an appearance sooner just was constantly locked out cause I couldn't remember my password and user name combo. :smile2:


Glad to hear things are going well for you!


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## Another Planet

I see the antics of the forum hasn't changed much lol


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## TooNice

Another Planet said:


> I see the antics of the forum hasn't changed much lol


Would you expect anything less? ?


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## 3Xnocharm

Great to see ya, AP!


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## TooNice

Heehee... I have been upgraded from "suspiciously normal" to "disturbingly normal".

:grin2:


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## FeministInPink

So, I don't know if you all have seen my posts in the Falling "IN LOVE" Again thread, but Real Estate and I are at a crossroads. Rather than re-write everything or make the lovely Singles TAMers go in search of these posts, I will re-post them here.

Posted yesterday:



FeministInPink said:


> I don't know if you're broken, but I would like to see what other people have to say about your situation, because it looks a lot like mine. My current partner, who I've been seeing for a year, seems to be in the same boat as you (though he is about 10 yrs younger than you, and has no children). We spend every weekend together, and sometimes one (or more!) evenings during the week. He's a wonderful man, but he says that he can't ever allow himself to love another woman after the way he's been hurt in the past. He's built a wall to protect himself and keep others out. Like you, his XW cheated, left him and married the OM as soon as the divorce was finalized. I absolutely adore him, and he says he cares for me deeply and that I make him happy... but I want to be with someone who is in love with me, someone who can't wait to see me, who misses me when I am away. I'm at a crossroads myself and I'm not sure what to do in my own situation. We had a big fight about this a week ago, and while I agreed to stay for now, I'm having serious doubts and things feel very different to me now.


And when the OP asked to hear a little more about my situation with Real Estate, I posted:



FeministInPink said:


> Ugh, it's complicated. What do you mean, haven't got the wild out of you yet?
> 
> Yes, we have talked about expectations, in a limited sense... his expectations have been a moving target, honestly. Starting out, he was saying, _I don't ever want a relationships again, I don't ever want a girlfriend again_... then six months later, he's saying that we're a couple and acknowledging that we are in a relationship, but claims he still doesn't want a girlfriend/boyfriend thing, because that means that we are thinking about marriage, and he never wants to get married again. And whenever he makes declarations about what he doesn't want, he always makes a disclaimer that this is the way he feels now, and he doesn't see it changing, but he might feel differently in a year. All labels aside, we're as committed as any two people who have been seeing each other exclusively for a year can be, and he asked me once what I expected/wanted out of a boyfriend, a gave him list of things that I expected from a boyfriend, and he said, I'm willing to give you all that, I'm just not saying that I'm your boyfriend because that's a precursor to marriage. I've never pushed my agenda regarding my expectations, I've been happy to take things as they come and let things develop in an organic way... it has only come up a few times, when I felt he was neglecting me/my needs or not making me enough of a priority; usually, he is very responsive when I communicate something like this, but if he's stressed about something else that I don't know about, he'll go into "I need to assert my independence and remind you that you're not my girlfriend" mode, which always results in a big fight, like the one we had last week.
> 
> And I DO want to get married again, someday, but only if it's to the right person, and I'm not in any rush at this point. At this point, I just want a boyfriend, and I am happy to stay at that point for a long time. He asked me, five months ago, to be patient with him, because he has a lot of baggage, and I have been very patient with him. Until this fight last week, we never really spoke about my expectations, and I was ok with that. I didn't have any expectations... expectations for the future keep you from living fully in the present, which is a waste when the future may never even happen. I was happy with our relationship, and I felt like I was getting my needs met in the current state of affairs. And if our relationship was meant to become something more, then that would happen naturally. Then again, I also thought that his behavior and affection was coming from a place of love, and that his feelings were evolving.
> 
> I was upset because he had come home from a week and a half in Africa, and I barely saw him in the week and a half before he left... and I thought that we would FINALLY get some time together now that he was back, and I felt like he was blowing me off in favor of everything else, making me wait another five days until the weekend to see him. I had waited three weeks to get some quality time in, and he was expecting me to wait another 5 days? That did NOT go over well with me, not at all. So we got into a fight about it, which led him to ask, "What do you want out of this relationship? ... because I get the feeling that you want more than I am willing to give." Which turned into another fight. And it became very frustrating for me, because a lot of his reasons for not wanting anything more serious sounded more like excuses and fear talking, than actual legitimate reasons. And it was very hard for me, too, because the whole thing triggered my fear of abandonment (it really felt like he was rejecting me on some level). (One of his things about us not being bf/gf is that if we aren't bf/gf, then we can't "break up"--neither one of us can't dump the other. He thinks it will protect him from being rejected. Which makes absolutely no sense at all. A lot of things about his arguments on this topic have been illogical.)
> 
> He says he's never met someone as compatible with him as I am. And he sees us together for years into the future. That I'm his favorite person, that he cares for me more than anyone else in his life. What I don't understand is how you could meet someone so perfect for you, whom you see a [short-term, few years] future with, who you care for so much, and yet... you don't want to even consider the possibility of something more serious, more permanent with them? It makes no sense to me at all.
> 
> I hate his XW so, so much. She screwed him up so bad... the sad thing is that the betrayal and divorce made him the man who he is today, and ironically, pushed him to learn how to be a better partner. And because he IS such a good partner is one of the reasons I like him so much. He said once, if I had met you instead of her, things would have been very different for us... and I said, if I had met you then, we wouldn't have worked. Our relationship would have failed then, because you were a different person then, and I'm in love with the man you are NOW. SMH.


In response to my second post, Rowan wrote and I responded:



FeministInPink said:


> Rowan said:
> 
> 
> 
> FIP, your fella is emotionally unavailable. The push-pull thing he does, where he's your boyfriend except he isn't and wants to remind you of that fact, allows him to keep you on the hook and keep getting his needs met without making you an actual priority. And you're allowing it. You're projecting love and evolving feelings that aren't actually in him. You're holding on to hope because he's doling out hope-bait by telling you that his feelings might change - presumably if you're...what? More, better, different, what? You're trying to be patient and understanding and to not place demands on him. And all that would be fine, good even, except that you don't actually sound like you're really okay with this nebulous, no-definitions, boundary-less, quasi relationship you find yourself in. You honestly sound more like someone who's trying to be "low maintenance" because you're deathly afraid of being called "high maintenance" or "demanding". But the truth is, that it's okay to be demanding, when what you're demanding is honesty, respect, clarity, to have your needs met equitably in the relationship, and to put an end to moving targets. Expectations in a relationship are not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> The problem is that your guy has told you what he wants, but you're still trying to figure out what he's saying. You've been together a year and he still insists he's not your boyfriend - to the point of feeling the occasional need to remind you of that fact. If you want a boyfriend, he's not your guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your feedback, Rowan, but I posted this for the OP because he wanted to hear a little more, not to get feedback on my personal situation from other folks. If I needed feedback, I would have posted my own thread. And you would have the entire contextual story to respond to, not just one post.
> 
> Maybe he is emotionally unavailable. But he DOES make me a priority... the example in the previous post is an outlier, and I only gave it to put the argument in context. I am one of the few priorities in his life, but at that moment, all of them had come together to create the perfect storm of priorities, but I didn't know it at the time because I hadn't seen him while he was out of town and we hadn't had time to talk.
> 
> He doesn't expect me or want me to change. In fact, for the first time in my life, with him, _I don't feel like I need to change or be any different_. I have, and I do make demands on him, and he expects me to do so if I'm unhappy, and he always does his best to resolve these issues and talk them through with me. We do have boundaries, we are exclusive, we've always maintained a policy of complete honesty in our relationship, we have a great deal of respect in our relationship, and not only are my needs being met for the first time in any relationship, he actively wants to know what he can do better to make sure my needs are continually met. And I may have mispoken... I have expectations of all the above. But in the context of my conversation with him, I don't have expectations like, "I want us to get married in X number of years." I like my independence, and I value it because it was very hard won. I'm not looking to give it up anytime soon.
Click to expand...

I also received a thoughtful PM from another TAMer, and he and I exchanged a few PMs. I won't quote him here, as PMs are private (and I believe it is actually against forum rules to quote PMs in a public thread. But that TAM gave me some good advice and a few things to think about, from the POV of a man who has been where Real Estate is right now. And this TAMer has obviously read my posts in this thread about Real Estate here, because he referred to the nickname in the PMs, so he had a little more context to go on than Rowan did. The gist of his PM advice was this: you need to sit down with Real Estate and have a non-confrontational conversation about where you (FIP) want to be in 5, 10 yrs from now, and if this is acceptable to him? How much time you (FIP) are willing to invest in him to wait and see if he comes around? Is he even capable of giving you what you need? Without this conversation, he will be treading relationship water indefinitely, and we will still be at the same place a year from now, except that I will be even more attached and even more hurt when this ends. Like with @bkyln309's OM, the treading water allows Real Estate to get his basic needs met but leaves me wanting more; he is making a conscious choice in refusing to get attached, so he never has to run the risk of getting hurt again. And he will continue to do so as long as I let him.

My reply to this fantastic TAMer who PM'ed me:



FeministInPink said:


> Thank you. You aren't off-base, not in the slightest. I really appreciate the advice. I don't have kids, and I don't know what I would say to them, and I can't ask myself what advice my parents would give, because they're totally messed up and give really sh*tty advice. My FOO is the great source of many of my emotional issues. There really is no one in my life I can go to for good advice. I have a close friend who is very empathetic, but she always encourages me to follow my heart and talks to me about patience and understanding, which helps to give me strength, but it isn't always the best advice. She has in the past encouraged me strongly to walk away from certain men. Not with RE, though. With RE, she's always encouraged me to follow my heart and be patient, because she truly believes he will come around.
> 
> And it has been a struggle, because I really, really want the heart to win out. But I know the odds are so, so slim.
> 
> So this is very, very helpful. The more I have been thinking about this, the more that I realize I can't go on this way. I _was_ happy with him in the present, but part of me being happy was that his behavior towards me gave the impression that he was starting to think about me more seriously, and thinking about the future, and that his wall was starting to weaken. But after we had this big fight or whatever, that changed. He wanted to keep our relationship the way that it had been, but the fact of the matter is that we can't keep the relationship the way that it had been because the context of everything he says and does has changed for me. I realized that spending this past weekend with him. He behaved the same towards me as he always has, but because the context and my understanding of his behavior has changed, it feels kind of empty to me now. And I can't be the same as I was before, with this new contextual understanding.
> 
> I'm no good at faking it, so we'll need to have this conversation sooner rather than later. He expects me to stay over at his place this weekend, I assume, since that's what we do every weekend, so I guess it will be Friday. I need to memorize your message, it has pretty much everything I need to say right there already.
> 
> Best,
> FIP


So this is where I stand right now. I've been thinking about this ever since last Tuesday, when we had the fight. Initially, I felt ok with continuing the way things were, but after spending last weekend together, I realized we can't just go back and continue the way things were, because the fight last Tuesday changed how I view and experience everything with him. When he cuddles me at night, when he holds my hand, when he kisses me... I need it to mean something. Physical touch is my main love language. And now it feels very hollow. And fake, somehow. And I can't do this. I can't be in a relationship with someone that is just treading water, filling my love bank with counterfeit money.

Initially, I thought it would be foolish to discard someone who makes me happy, only to be alone again in the cesspool that is modern dating after divorce. I don't want to be back there again. But I also can't be with someone who doesn't really want to be with me. It makes me feel like I'm filler, like I'm being used to fill the hours and fill the space, simply because his XW isn't there anymore. It makes me feel like he could take or leave me, that I could be pretty much anyone. And I simply can't do that to myself, even if that means that I'll be alone. I would rather be alone than be a space filler.

I was going to wait until Friday night, but the more I think about this, I want to do it tonight. I don't want to wait until tomorrow night.


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> So, I don't know if you all have seen my posts in the Falling "IN LOVE" Again thread, but Real Estate and I are at a crossroads. Rather than re-write everything or make the lovely Singles TAMers go in search of these posts, I will re-post them here.
> 
> Posted yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> And when the OP asked to hear a little more about my situation with Real Estate, I posted:
> 
> 
> 
> In response to my second post, Rowan wrote and I responded:
> 
> 
> 
> I also received a thoughtful PM from another TAMer, and he and I exchanged a few PMs. I won't quote him here, as PMs are private (and I believe it is actually against forum rules to quote PMs in a public thread. But that TAM gave me some good advice and a few things to think about, from the POV of a man who has been where Real Estate is right now. And this TAMer has obviously read my posts in this thread about Real Estate here, because he referred to the nickname in the PMs, so he had a little more context to go on than Rowan did. The gist of his PM advice was this: you need to sit down with Real Estate and have a non-confrontational conversation about where you (FIP) want to be in 5, 10 yrs from now, and if this is acceptable to him? How much time you (FIP) are willing to invest in him to wait and see if he comes around? Is he even capable of giving you what you need? Without this conversation, he will be treading relationship water indefinitely, and we will still be at the same place a year from now, except that I will be even more attached and even more hurt when this ends. Like with @bkyln309's OM, the treading water allows Real Estate to get his basic needs met but leaves me wanting more; he is making a conscious choice in refusing to get attached, so he never has to run the risk of getting hurt again. And he will continue to do so as long as I let him.
> 
> My reply to this fantastic TAMer who PM'ed me:
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where I stand right now. I've been thinking about this ever since last Tuesday, when we had the fight. Initially, I felt ok with continuing the way things were, but after spending last weekend together, I realized we can't just go back and continue the way things were, because the fight last Tuesday changed how I view and experience everything with him. When he cuddles me at night, when he holds my hand, when he kisses me... I need it to mean something. Physical touch is my main love language. And now it feels very hollow. And fake, somehow. And I can't do this. I can't be in a relationship with someone that is just treading water, filling my love bank with counterfeit money.
> 
> Initially, I thought it would be foolish to discard someone who makes me happy, only to be alone again in the cesspool that is modern dating after divorce. I don't want to be back there again. But I also can't be with someone who doesn't really want to be with me. It makes me feel like I'm filler, like I'm being used to fill the hours and fill the space, simply because his XW isn't there anymore. It makes me feel like he could take or leave me, that I could be pretty much anyone. And I simply can't do that to myself, even if that means that I'll be alone. I would rather be alone than be a space filler.
> 
> I was going to wait until Friday night, but the more I think about this, I want to do it tonight. I don't want to wait until tomorrow night.


You are so brave. I need to do the same thing but I am too scared to go there. If you ever need to chat, PM me! I do understand. (And I dont want to go back to dating)


----------



## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> You are so brave. I need to do the same thing but I am too scared to go there. If you ever need to chat, PM me! I do understand. (And I dont want to go back to dating)


Thanks. I'm ****ing terrified, to be honest, that I'm making the wrong choice. That maybe, if I would be patient that he would eventually change his mind. But I think I need to show him that I respect myself and value myself enough not to settle for less than what I deserve. I settled with my XH, and I'm never doing that again.

But I'm ok being alone. I've spent most of my life alone, even when I was married, so I'm not scared of that. And I will be alone for a while, I think. I'm not going to rush back into dating anytime soon. I can say without reservation that Real Estate really is the best man I've ever been with, and the most compatible, too. I've seen what's out there in terms of my dating options. I don't think I'm going to find anyone who compares with him anytime soon, maybe never. He's raised the bar significantly for any man who may come after him. If that means I'll be alone, so be it. 

When my XH and I split, that was my biggest fear, my worst nightmare come true... but then I also realized that it was the best thing to ever happen to me, and that my former marriage and the abuse that I suffered while in it, was REALLY the worst nightmare. And what kept me there for such a long time was fear: fear of losing love (which I learned I never really had in the first place), fear of being on my own, fear of being alone, fear of the unknown. And it occurred to me that every bad decision in my life, ever opportunity that I didn't grab, was all rooted in one thing: fear. I decided then and there that moving forward in my life, I would never again let fear control me or dictate my actions. And if there was something that scared me, I was going to face it head on. In fact, if something scared me, then it probably meant that I _should _do it. (A few things withstanding, maybe, like skydiving.) A few months after he and I separated, I went to Disney World. Roller Coasters have always terrified me. Well, I said screw it, and I went on every single goddamn roller coaster in every single Disney park.

And that is how I want to live my life. If he's too scared to face his insecurities, and to risk really being with someone again, he's not the person for me. Because I can't live my life this way and be with someone who lets fear rule his life. I simply can't.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Thanks. I'm ****ing terrified, to be honest, that I'm making the wrong choice. That maybe, if I would be patient that he would eventually change his mind. But I think I need to show him that I respect myself and value myself enough not to settle for less than what I deserve. I settled with my XH, and I'm never doing that again.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm ok being alone. I've spent most of my life alone, even when I was married, so I'm not scared of that. And I will be alone for a while, I think. I'm not going to rush back into dating anytime soon. I can say without reservation that Real Estate really is the best man I've ever been with, and the most compatible, too. I've seen what's out there in terms of my dating options. I don't think I'm going to find anyone who compares with him anytime soon, maybe never. He's raised the bar significantly for any man who may come after him. If that means I'll be alone, so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> When my XH and I split, that was my biggest fear, my worst nightmare come true... but then I also realized that it was the best thing to ever happen to me, and that my former marriage and the abuse that I suffered while in it, was REALLY the worst nightmare. And what kept me there for such a long time was fear: fear of losing love (which I learned I never really had in the first place), fear of being on my own, fear of being alone, fear of the unknown. And it occurred to me that every bad decision in my life, ever opportunity that I didn't grab, was all rooted in one thing: fear. I decided then and there that moving forward in my life, I would never again let fear control me or dictate my actions. And if there was something that scared me, I was going to face it head on. In fact, if something scared me, then it probably meant that I _should _do it. (A few things withstanding, maybe, like skydiving.) A few months after he and I separated, I went to Disney World. Roller Coasters have always terrified me. Well, I said screw it, and I went on every single goddamn roller coaster in every single Disney park.
> 
> 
> 
> And that is how I want to live my life. If he's too scared to face his insecurities, and to risk really being with someone again, he's not the person for me. Because I can't live my life this way and be with someone who lets fear rule his life. I simply can't.




Good girl. Keep us posted and the best of luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

I agree with bklyn, you have a lot of courage, FIP. And who knows? Maybe having this discussion with him will knock him off that foundation of his. I have always felt that you guys not having that "label" gave him permission in his own mind that he could easily bail if he became uncomfortable, and like he is always on the defensive. (not consciously...) I admire the hell out of you, I always have.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I agree with bklyn, you have a lot of courage, FIP. And who knows? Maybe having this discussion with him will knock him off that foundation of his. *I have always felt that you guys not having that "label" gave him permission in his own mind that he could easily bail if he became uncomfortable, and like he is always on the defensive.* (not consciously...) I admire the hell out of you, I always have.


Thank you, I really appreciate that  I'm hoping it will knock him off his foundation, but I'm thinking the more likely outcome is that he'll smoke up and get super high and continue to do so until he doesn't have to feel the feelings anymore. Part of him prefers to be comfortably numb.

Regarding the bolded statement, I absolutely agree and have felt this way for a long time, with splitting hairs on one thing: neither of us can really bail or dump the other person (aka breakup), because it's not a real relationship, under the fallacious logic that it will hurt less that way (or won't hurt) because there was never any committed relationship to begin with. We all know, of course, that changing the semantics of any situation doesn't alter the reality of any situation. A rose will always be a rose, even if you call it a tiger lily.

And yes, every time this comes up (and he's always the one who brings it up, not me!) he is very defensive, he is on the defense, which means he's also playing offense at the same time, like he's trying to beat me to the punch. And it always sounds like he's trying to convince himself more than anything else. (As in, he sounds like me when I'm trying to convince myself of something, trying to talk myself into doing something that I signed up for, but don't really want to do, or whatever.) It always comes across like he's telling himself, "Hey, Real Estate, you really like this girl, but remember that you said you'd never have a girlfriend or marry again, and if you give into this--and I know you want to--you'll be a hypocrite, and everyone will think you're a hypocrite because you've already sworn up and down in front of all your friends and family that you'd never do that again, and they won't trust you or believe you ever again if you go back on that, so you need to stick with it, man!" That is what it feels like to me.

But when he's not on the offensive/defensive, and when he lets his guard down, the way that he cuddles me, the way he looks at me, the way he grabs my hand when we're just walking across a two-lane parking lot, the way he plays with my hair, and when he cups my face... they've been saying something completely different.

And this is coming from the empath of the Singles of TAM. One could argue that my feelings are clouding my judgement, but the emotions of others usually have a very strong impact/influence on my own emotions. If someone close to me, especially if they are close physically and emotionally, is having a bad day, I will begin to have a bad day and my mood will alter; if someone is having a good day, or they are really happy to see me, then that similarly influences me in a positive way. So, I could be wrong about what he's feeling, but I don't think that I am... I think the likelier explanation is that he is so disconnected from his own emotions, because he's cut him off from himself, that he doesn't recognize these feelings for what they are, and/or he's never really had a healthy relationship, or a healthy connection with anyone, so he literally can't see what is right in front of his face.


----------



## FeministInPink

My psychic friend Katie is imploring me to wait a few more weeks before doing anything.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

She says that we've just been through something big, and he has a lot of other stuff going on and might not be able to process this right now.

She says that I'm basing my decision on the entire relationship on just one week, a week where we're both a little off because of what happened last week and him because of other stuff he's been dealing with.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> She says that we've just been through something big, and he has a lot of other stuff going on and might not be able to process this right now.
> 
> She says that I'm basing my decision on the entire relationship on just one week, a week where we're both a little off because of what happened last week and him because of other stuff he's been dealing with.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I disagree. It's a good time because stressful times in life are the best test of a relationship. Who was there for him? You. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuyInColorado

No I love you or even calling you a girlfriend after 9, 10, 11 months? You sure he thinks you're exclusive? Give him a timeline to figure it out and then don't become exclusive. Him seeing you going out with other men might wake him up or be exactly what he wants.


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> She says that we've just been through something big, and he has a lot of other stuff going on and might not be able to process this right now.
> 
> She says that I'm basing my decision on the entire relationship on just one week, a week where we're both a little off because of what happened last week and him because of other stuff he's been dealing with.


I did wonder about this, myself. He seems to be someone who wants to have someone there for him, but at the same time does not know how to handle it if someone IS there. Perhaps his defenses from the past have trained him to handle stress alone, and he may still be rebounding from all that happened before he left. 

That said, I do respect that you are looking out for yourself. I know you have the knowledge of how to do that, but it's another thing to actually do it when you are in the midst of what you are going through. 

In any event, you and Real Estate are invested enough at this point that it can't hurt to give it a couple more weeks. Just maintain your integrity to yourself during that time, and you'll figure it out... one way or another.


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> I did wonder about this, myself. He seems to be someone who wants to have someone there for him, but at the same time does not know how to handle it if someone IS there. Perhaps his defenses from the past have trained him to handle stress alone, and he may still be rebounding from all that happened before he left.
> 
> That said, I do respect that you are looking out for yourself. I know you have the knowledge of how to do that, but it's another thing to actually do it when you are in the midst of what you are going through.
> 
> In any event, you and Real Estate are invested enough at this point that it can't hurt to give it a couple more weeks. Just maintain your integrity to yourself during that time, and you'll figure it out... one way or another.


This is the conclusion I've come to, everything you've said. For a long time, I'd never been able to rely on anyone myself for anything, except for my best friend. Since my divorce, I've found a number of friends who will do pretty much anything for me. And I've always been able to rely on Real Estate, and I've never been able to rely on a romantic partner before, not even my XH. Especially not my XH. Even when I know that I have people who will support me and help me, it's still hard to reach out and hard to accept help when offered. My mom (yay, Mom!) always taught me to never be a burden on anyone or to ask for help.

I know he's never really been able to rely on anyone... he's told me some stories about growing up, and it sounds like he's had a similar experience. I've always been the one people come to for help, and people always say how strong I am, blah blah blah. I think he may be the same way.

I've decided to sit on this for a while. How long? I don't know. I may not have mentioned this, but his sister is in the hospital again, and prognosis isn't good. She might be dying. And Flower isn't recovered as well as we had hoped. He has to puree all her food because she can't keep it down otherwise, and she has to wear a doggy diaper now because of incontinence problems. So she may not be long for this world. Oh, and then there's more work craziness going on for him right now, too. I can't lay more stuff on him right now.

For now, I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Yes, this conversation needs to happen at some point. But it doesn't need to happen right now.


----------



## FeministInPink

GuyInColorado said:


> No I love you or even calling you a girlfriend after 9, 10, 11 months? You sure he thinks you're exclusive? Give him a timeline to figure it out and then don't become exclusive. Him seeing you going out with other men might wake him up or be exactly what he wants.


Yes, we are exclusive. We have discussed it.

And not everyone jumps in head-first the way you do.


----------



## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I disagree. It's a good time because stressful times in life are the best test of a relationship. Who was there for him? You.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And maybe it's a test to see if I stick around...


----------



## NotEZ

FeministInPink said:


> Thanks. I'm ****ing terrified, to be honest, that I'm making the wrong choice. That maybe, if I would be patient that he would eventually change his mind. But I think I need to show him that I respect myself and value myself enough not to settle for less than what I deserve. I settled with my XH, and I'm never doing that again.
> 
> But I'm ok being alone. I've spent most of my life alone, even when I was married, so I'm not scared of that. And I will be alone for a while, I think. I'm not going to rush back into dating anytime soon. I can say without reservation that Real Estate really is the best man I've ever been with, and the most compatible, too. I've seen what's out there in terms of my dating options. I don't think I'm going to find anyone who compares with him anytime soon, maybe never. He's raised the bar significantly for any man who may come after him. If that means I'll be alone, so be it.
> 
> When my XH and I split, that was my biggest fear, my worst nightmare come true... but then I also realized that it was the best thing to ever happen to me, and that my former marriage and the abuse that I suffered while in it, was REALLY the worst nightmare. And what kept me there for such a long time was fear: fear of losing love (which I learned I never really had in the first place), fear of being on my own, fear of being alone, fear of the unknown. And it occurred to me that every bad decision in my life, ever opportunity that I didn't grab, was all rooted in one thing: fear. I decided then and there that moving forward in my life, I would never again let fear control me or dictate my actions. And if there was something that scared me, I was going to face it head on. In fact, if something scared me, then it probably meant that I _should _do it. (A few things withstanding, maybe, like skydiving.) A few months after he and I separated, I went to Disney World. Roller Coasters have always terrified me. Well, I said screw it, and I went on every single goddamn roller coaster in every single Disney park.
> 
> And that is how I want to live my life. If he's too scared to face his insecurities, and to risk really being with someone again, he's not the person for me. Because I can't live my life this way and be with someone who lets fear rule his life. I simply can't.


You arent making the wrong choice. You wouldnt be questioning it if you were. He may be opening up to the idea of you but his walls will never fully come down as long as you are there supporting them. And you will never be truly happy with this relationship until the walls are removed. 

You need to have the talk. Tell him how you feel and that you are trying to be patient because its worth it to you. But realize that, no matter what he says in that moment, the only thing that will guarantee a choice is to walk away for the time being. Show the same patience you've shown him in this relationship, outside of the relationship. Its the only way he will be able to decide whether he'd rather lose you or the walls. And you will never feel secure in this relationship until he makes that choice.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## billbird2111

I don't see how I can ever bring myself to trust another woman again after the Hell I've been put through. Then again, it's only been ten months. Most of the time I'm just angry. And sometimes a little bit sad.

But I'm older than most of you. I'm 53. I'm also not as spry as I once was. I don't see a younger woman being interested in me and if it's someone my age, I don't see how I could ever bring myself to trust a woman again.

Perhaps it's just a particular stage I'm going through. I'm not too proud to admit that. Nor am I stupid enough to say "I'm over her," when I'm clearly not.

But I can't see myself trusting another woman again. Ever. Not at this stage.


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## Hopeful Cynic

FeministInPink said:


> I've decided to sit on this for a while. How long? I don't know. I may not have mentioned this, but his sister is in the hospital again, and prognosis isn't good. She might be dying. And Flower isn't recovered as well as we had hoped. He has to puree all her food because she can't keep it down otherwise, and she has to wear a doggy diaper now because of incontinence problems. So she may not be long for this world. Oh, and then there's more work craziness going on for him right now, too. I can't lay more stuff on him right now.
> 
> For now, I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Yes, this conversation needs to happen at some point. But it doesn't need to happen right now.


There's always going to be something...that's how life works, and that's how compassionate people stay in situations they don't like for far too long.

But I'm thinking that while he was away, he either missed you terribly and it bothers him because of how much it means he cares, or he didn't miss you at all and felt liberated without having any pressure to see you and he doesn't know how to dial down things with you without hurting you or possibly losing what he does enjoy with you.

The whole numbing his emotions with weed thing troubles me though. That's just putting his head in the sand instead of dealing with and resolving things. Recreational or medical use, sure, but this is dangerous.

I'd ghost him a bit. Be there for him when he contacts you, but let him take the initiative on contact for a while. See what emerges.


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## Mucc

Question: Do you put your marital status as "single" or "divorced" in various different forms that you fill out in various aspects of life? Why or why not? 

Just curious to see what people think?


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## GuyInColorado

Divorced. I'm proud I ended my miserable sham of a marriage.

My primary care doc is the only one that went into it. Just making sure I wasn't off my rockers.


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## TooNice

billbird2111 said:


> I don't see how I can ever bring myself to trust another woman again after the Hell I've been put through. Then again, it's only been ten months. Most of the time I'm just angry. And sometimes a little bit sad.
> 
> But I'm older than most of you. I'm 53. I'm also not as spry as I once was. I don't see a younger woman being interested in me and if it's someone my age, I don't see how I could ever bring myself to trust a woman again.
> 
> Perhaps it's just a particular stage I'm going through. I'm not too proud to admit that. Nor am I stupid enough to say "I'm over her," when I'm clearly not.
> 
> But I can't see myself trusting another woman again. Ever. Not at this stage.


It sounds like you still need to give yourself time. I still get angry, too - but it's much better than it used to be. The anger has been the final piece for me to let go of... it's tough. Be gentle on yourself and use this time to focus on you. It gets better!


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## TooNice

Mucc said:


> Question: Do you put your marital status as "single" or "divorced" in various different forms that you fill out in various aspects of life? Why or why not?
> 
> Just curious to see what people think?


If "divorced" is an option, I choose that. Otherwise, I say I am single.


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## TooNice

BF came over tonight. It was a really great night, but I got a little more insight. He's got a brain that won't shut down. He admits he is not like most other 30 year old men, because his mind is always going, and sex is not usually what he's thinking about. That tends to result in him being LD.

I admitted that at this stage in my life, I would consider myself high drive, and I was honest in saying that I don't know what a relationship will look like if he's not compatible there. I know he has had some bad experiences, but he hasn't told me the circumstances, except that cheating was involved. If his drive was a part of it, that's crappy in my opinion. I assured him that I am loyal no matter what, so he won't have to worry about me doing that to him. If that can be one less thing for him to have on his mind, then great. I am willing to try it and see how things go. If it's not enough for me, I will be honest with him. And I told him that I need him to keep being open with me. We will try to figure it out together and see what happens. 

It was a good talk and a great night. We have plans for him to come again tomorrow, and to stay the night. Hopefully tonight's talk helped.


----------



## GuyInColorado

FeministInPink said:


> GuyInColorado said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I love you or even calling you a girlfriend after 9, 10, 11 months? You sure he thinks you're exclusive? Give him a timeline to figure it out and then don't become exclusive. Him seeing you going out with other men might wake him up or be exactly what he wants.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are exclusive. We have discussed it.
> 
> And not everyone jumps in head-first the way you do.
Click to expand...

Not everyone goes to a sex club on their first date like you did.


----------



## Satya

FIP, for what is worth, I wanted to reply to you in the other thread but didn't want to t/j, so I'm glad you put your thoughts here. 

What I wanted to say is, I had a very, very similar "come to Jesus" moment with a man, in fact eerily similar to the situation you find yourself in with RE when it comes to how you describe your feelings. I actually knew him for years before we tried to make it more (this about a year after my D was final). He had so many great qualities and always treated me well, but he'd be just the right kind of unavailable (at just the right moments) to make me question what he himself said that we actually had. 

I'm not saying I know precisely what you're going through, plus I know for a fact that you've spent more quality time with RE than I was able to with my guy (which you'd think would make a difference, but perhaps not in a way). 

It's really your thought process that feels similar to me. When I reassessed things, I felt as you do. I had my priorities straight, I knew what I wanted, and I knew I'd rather be alone than with a man who didn't really want (or wasn't ready) to be 100% with me. I was very certain we would be great together. How could we not be together?, I used to think. Your words actually made me tear up a bit, because I remembered what your frustration felt like. Frustration because this guy just wouldn't give me complete access to share what I saw to be a potentially great life and future with him. I obviously have very different feelings now, but you never forget times when your heart truly hurt. 

Other stresses aside (the situation with Flower for instance), life is about tough things happening at not the best times. As someone mentioned, tough times are the best times to put the relationship to test. After being apart for so long, RE really should have spent time with you, immediately. You're not just this secondary, supplemental thing in his life that he can "get to" when everything else is sorted and in order. I call it being a "bouncy castle girlfriend." That is, someone he can take out, unfold, blow up, bounce on until his fun is done, deflate, fold up, and put away until needed again. 

FT noise, as they say. You're either a steady, constant part of his journey or you're not. I'm so glad you KNOW this, FIP. You're already miles ahead of others who are only in the start of the process of discovering their worth. I knew I was, too. I still fell hard for an unavailable man. 

I'm not saying to go nuclear. If giving yourself a time-frame is agreeable, decide on one with him and stick to it. He'll either keep to it or not. Just don't let it drag on indefinitely. I don't think you will, but the heart and the head are not always in sync. 

Please try to put the "what ifs" from your mind. That's the scumbag brain's way of making you second guess. Don't make any decisions without confidence, then remain confident in those decisions that you've made. Ruining a good thing only happens if you have a good thing to ruin. Do you feel that what you have, what you really have with RE is a good thing? Or is it just the best you've gotten thus far? Only you can reflect upon and answer that. 

I can have hope that things will be better for you, FIP, whatever you decide to do. You know what you want and deserve better than anyone else does. Don't let anyone else control your flow in a relationship. It's like a merging of two separate bodies of water into one. When comingled, they flow as one and experience everything thereafter together. That is the natural progression of things. You and RE are flowing in parallel, every now and then meeting to share a flow, then separating again. Until that changes (if that's what you desire), then your flow will always be an arms length away from his.


----------



## FeministInPink

GuyInColorado said:


> Not everyone goes to a sex club on their first date like you did.


Well, technically, our first date was a four-hour brunch earlier that day.

We are both into kink, though I was much newer to it than he was, and I had never been to a BDSM club and mentioned that I wanted to go sometime to check it out, and he offered to take me.

A lot of people in the community just go to BDSM clubs to just hang out with other people in the community. And that's all we did when we went there the first time. It took several visits before I was comfortable doing anything in the club, and even then it was in a private room.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Ok. Everybody kiss and make up now. lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

@Satya, thanks for your comment. I've always kind of believed that if you're right for each other, you make it happen. I've never really believed in the whole "right now isn't a good time" or whatever excuses people come up with. But... people have hangups, and theit own emotional crap that they're dealing with.

He DID spend some time with me immediately, but it simply wan't enough. I picked him up from the airport last Monday night, and the drive home was about an hour, so we got back to his place around 11:30. A friend had been staying at his place while he was out of town, and I found out that night that she needed to stay about another week, which was where a lot of this started... anyway, she (the friend) had thought she could stay continuously, but he told her that she needed to find somewhere else to stay Monday night because he needed some time alone with me when he got back. Despite the fact that he was exhausted after 24 hrs in planes and airports and I had to be up for work the next day, we stayed up for about 2 hrs talking before we went to sleep, and he made a point to get up and hang out with me some more in the morning while I got ready (if it's a work day for me, he usually stays asleep, just waking up long enough to give me a goodbye kiss).

if it weren't for the friend staying with him, I think we would have spent all week together, but because of her being there, we couldn't, and then I found out on Tueday that she was going to be there through the weekend, too, which meant I couldn't stay at his place for the weekend like normal, and that's when I kind of lost it. I was already irritated that I couldn't spend time with him/at his place during the week, but now I was getting cockblocked on the weekend, too?!? That is what started the whole fight... he thought that I should be more understanding of her situation (none of which I knew at the time, because he had never told me about, out of respect for her privacy), and that he was trying to help a friend who really, really needed help, and from his perspective it felt like I was asking him to choose between her and me, which pissed me off even more, because in my mind, it seemed like he had already made his choice, and it made me feel like I wasn't a priority for him. He immediately came over to my place, because he wanted to clear this up and show that I AM a priority to him, and things just went downhill from there, especially after he was like, maybe we need to talk about what our expectations are for this relationship. He was already on the defensive, and he went into the whole "I don't ever want to get married again" thing and I'm thinking, who was talking about marriage?
@Hopeful Cynic said, "But I'm thinking that while he was away, he either missed you terribly and it bothers him because of how much it means he cares, or he didn't miss you at all and felt liberated" and I'm inclined to think it's the first part. In fact, I know it's the first part... he always misses me when one of us is away. I think that his friend's need for help was putting him in a bad position, and he didn't know how to balance the two.

(BTW, he did tell me her whole story. Her life is a ****ing ****-storm right now, and she really needed someone to help, and it sounds like she didn't have anyone else to turn to. I'm glad I know now... if I had known all this earlier, I would have been more understanding. She and I met Saturday night. She's a really sweet woman, and was very apologetic for causing such an inconvenience. She realized that her presence was causing some tension for us, and felt really bad about it. By that point, I knew the whole story, and my perspective had changed, and I told her not to worry about it, that with everything else she had going on, my relationship with Real Estate was the absolute last thing that she needed to be worried about.)

And you're right, going nuclear won't solve anything. We will need to have this talk at some point, but it doesn't have to be right away. I DO think that Real Estate and I have something really good, which also happens to be the best I've had thus far, but not marginally so--far and away the best I've had. It would be foolish that to ruin that over something that may or may not be situational and temporary. My psychic friend Katie, who I talked to last night and who talked some sense into me last night before I had the chance to go nuclear, said that he's "kicking and screaming at new levels of intimacy" and that he wasn't prepared to miss me as much as he did while he was gone. I may be doing something similar... maybe I want to prove that I don't need him? 

If I'm vascillating so much, then I need to wait. And see.


----------



## Bananapeel

billbird2111 said:


> I don't see how I can ever bring myself to trust another woman again after the Hell I've been put through. Then again, it's only been ten months. Most of the time I'm just angry. And sometimes a little bit sad.
> 
> But I'm older than most of you. I'm 53. I'm also not as spry as I once was. I don't see a younger woman being interested in me and if it's someone my age, I don't see how I could ever bring myself to trust a woman again.
> 
> Perhaps it's just a particular stage I'm going through. I'm not too proud to admit that. Nor am I stupid enough to say "I'm over her," when I'm clearly not.
> 
> But I can't see myself trusting another woman again. Ever. Not at this stage.


That will decrease with time. I'm a year and half post divorce and have trust issues myself. Quite honestly I doubt I'll ever trust anyone the way I trusted my XWW because there was a certain naivety that comes with a first marriage that once lost can never be regained. However, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. As long as you don't let it control your life, it lets you go into future relationships better prepared to identify and deal with problems early on, before they go out of control. 

I remember the moment I was over my XWW. I was watching TV on the couch about a year ago and realized that was no longer angry, but instead I was content with how my life had changed. A few months later and I was happy again and now things are amazing. I'm almost always in a good mood, get to do the things I want when I want, have plenty of money, and have no problem finding and dating women that are far better than my ex (younger, prettier, more successful, more sexually adventurous, etc.). 

So don't worry too much. With time, after you get past the anger and loss, things do get better. The best part is you are totally in charge of where you get to go from here. You get to be the man you want and live the life that you want, without interference. If you don't like something, whether it is your lack of trust or insecurity about the future, then change it. There's no one stopping you.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

FIP, I'm sorry to hear that you are going through some angst right now with RE. 

I've been off the forum for awhile, but I've been trying to catch up. 

I also agree that you are a very strong and brave woman. I admire that. I used to feel I was the same, but I have a ways to go to get back there.

I think that RE is terrified to commit. Like you mentioned, semantics don't change what actually "is" - a rose is still a rose, even if you call it a tiger lily. But in constructing the emotional walls around himself, his terminology is part of that foundation he has built. If you are not a girlfriend, then you can't break up, etc. He is scared.

I don't think you have to do anything immediately. But, you have already pointed out that you need to respect yourself and what you deserve enough to get what you want out of the relationship. Right now he is in his safe spot - his path of least resistance - he has you, and he doesn't have to put his heart on the line (even if in reality his heart IS on the line, which I believe it is, but he has convinced himself that it isn't). I think that when you are ready, when the time is right, you may have to push him out of that safe place in order to get him to realize that. In order to get him to recognize that he might lose you if he doesn't step up. And he may run at first, out of fear, but that may be what it takes to get him to see the light.

I wish you only the best my friend.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

billbird2111 said:


> I don't see how I can ever bring myself to trust another woman again after the Hell I've been put through. Then again, it's only been ten months. Most of the time I'm just angry. And sometimes a little bit sad.
> 
> But I'm older than most of you. I'm 53. I'm also not as spry as I once was. I don't see a younger woman being interested in me and if it's someone my age, I don't see how I could ever bring myself to trust a woman again.
> 
> Perhaps it's just a particular stage I'm going through. I'm not too proud to admit that. Nor am I stupid enough to say "I'm over her," when I'm clearly not.
> 
> But I can't see myself trusting another woman again. Ever. Not at this stage.


You aren't over her yet. And that is okay. I promise you - I PROMISE YOU - that you WILL get over her. That you will get to a point that you do not care.

I'm older too. I'm 52. I've been divorced for going on ten years. 

Trust is something that is so hard. I am just, and I mean JUST, out of a relationship that lasted almost 2 years, which was about 2 years minus one month longer than it should have been. It was a horrible back-and-forth, angst-filled, anger-infused, trust-deprived, emotionally exhausting experience in profound dysfunction. Codependency at its very finest.

We (supposedly) were giving it the last 3-month final effort, borne of the relationship postmortem from hell. I had ended a short, clearly rebound-driven relationship in early January which he pushed me into when he insisted I move on. My mistake. But since then I had been trying. And could apparently do nothing right. It ended when, during a period of arguing (yes, that narrows nothing down), I got an email from him titled "There Is Another" with a flowery, disgustingly sappy description of another woman. 

And now he is calling me a Cheater. (Ummm.... wha? :scratchhead::scratchhead: )

The point is (yes, there is one), there should be trust, and there should be positive experiences, and there ARE women (and, I have to assume, men) out there who are real and trustworthy and just want to find a lover, partner, and companion who has honesty and integrity and can offer love and comfort. That is what I will find, and you will find it too.


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## RandomDude

Decent relationship-worthy men and women are simply, hard to find. Just how it is. For years after divorce I went from woman to woman and after a while I even got convinced that there is all the world had to offer. I even considered settling, compromising on my own standards, whining on this forum everyday. But then, well I just met someone finally, someone worth my time. Now it's mostly me with the issues as I struggle to get used to having a woman in my life again... ah single life with FWBs was fun for a while.

The odds are probably 1:100 for finding someone decent (and that's 100 dates, not just folks attracted to), but my odds are tough considering how picky I am, your odds maybe more favorable.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Decent relationship-worthy men and women are simply, hard to find. Just how it is. For years after divorce I went from woman to woman and after a while I even got convinced that there is all the world had to offer. I even considered settling, compromising on my own standards, whining on this forum everyday. But then, well I just met someone finally, someone worth my time. Now it's mostly me with the issues as I struggle to get used to having a woman in my life again... ah single life with FWBs was fun for a while.
> 
> The odds are probably 1:100 for finding someone decent (and that's 100 dates, not just folks attracted to), but my odds are tough considering how picky I am, your odds maybe more favorable.


My odds won't be more favorable. I am not just looking for someone to be content with. I am looking for someone with whom to share intense passion and love. I don't mean it has to be rainbows and shooting stars and skipping through the meadows hand in hand singing kumbaya constantly. It doesn't have to be - and won't be - fireworks constantly, but it has to be someone I absolutely WANT to spend the rest of my life with. Just ordinary stuff - sharing a dream for the future. Coming home from work and sharing each evening together. Knowing that person has your back and that you don't want to be with anyone else.

I have dated many men who I could have been "content" with. No thank you.


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## Hope Shimmers

deleted


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## Red Sonja

@FeministInPink I just wanted to say that I admire the hell out of you. And, you are on the correct path with your thinking.


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## FeministInPink

Red Sonja said:


> @FeministInPink I just wanted to say that I admire the hell out of you. And, you are on the correct path with your thinking.


Which part?


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## ne9907

@FeministInPink hugs, RE may have a lot of issues but he seems to really care about you. Wait it out, either he will come around or you will get tired and he will realize the mistake he made letting you go. I cannot help but compare yours and RE non-relationship/relationship with what I had with blue eyes. I was only with blue eyes with 6 months, but he also treated me like a girlfriend, except of course, I wasn't. He was similar to RE in the aspect that he wanted a way out. You and RE seem to be very compatible and I really really really hope he gets out of his comfort zone and realizes you are worth his trust. Because you are.
@Another Planet I was just thinking about you the other day!! Glad everything is going well for you~

I moved to a new place last Thursday. Friday, my refrigerator was delivered. Very nice fridge, however, it did not fit through the main door..... I broke down.... 
I have been under a lot of stress losing it felt wonderful! A bit embarrassing since my friend was helping me move and he saw me lose control. I went quietly to my bedroom and began crying... Next thing I know, he is next to me holding while I cry. He reassured me I would be okay.... Was very comforting to have someone hold me while I cried.


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## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> I moved to a new place last Thursday. Friday, my refrigerator was delivered. Very nice fridge, however, it did not fit through the main door..... I broke down....
> I have been under a lot of stress losing it felt wonderful! A bit embarrassing since my friend was helping me move and he saw me lose control. I went quietly to my bedroom and began crying... Next thing I know, he is next to me holding while I cry. He reassured me I would be okay.... Was very comforting to have someone hold me while I cried.


How is the new place now, ne?


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## ne9907

TooNice said:


> How is the new place now, ne?


It is farther from my work than my previous place, however, it is out in the country and I love that feeling. I like it, except for the doorways and corridors which are rather small.... 

I like it though


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## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> @FeministInPink hugs, RE may have a lot of issues but he seems to really care about you. Wait it out, either he will come around or you will get tired and he will realize the mistake he made letting you go. I cannot help but compare yours and RE non-relationship/relationship with what I had with blue eyes. I was only with blue eyes with 6 months, but he also treated me like a girlfriend, except of course, I wasn't. He was similar to RE in the aspect that he wanted a way out. You and RE seem to be very compatible and I really really really hope he gets out of his comfort zone and realizes you are worth his trust. Because you are.
> 
> @Another Planet I was just thinking about you the other day!! Glad everything is going well for you~
> 
> I moved to a new place last Thursday. Friday, my refrigerator was delivered. Very nice fridge, however, it did not fit through the main door..... I broke down....
> I have been under a lot of stress losing it felt wonderful! A bit embarrassing since my friend was helping me move and he saw me lose control. I went quietly to my bedroom and began crying... Next thing I know, he is next to me holding while I cry. He reassured me I would be okay.... Was very comforting to have someone hold me while I cried.


Thanks, Ne. We spent this past weekend together again, as we do every weekend... and it seems pretty clear that really does care for me deeply. And I think he doesn't know what to do about it, because I don't think he was planning on letting any woman get this close to him again, and we're only on the verge of real emotional intimacy at this point. 

If the heart is going to win out on this one, it's going to take a really long time.

Congrats on your new place. Bummer about the fridge! Did you finally get it in, or did you have to return it?


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## RandomDude

Feels so weird to be in uni, so many kids straight out of high school, feel so out of place. :/


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## ne9907

FeministInPink said:


> Thanks, Ne. We spent this past weekend together again, as we do every weekend... and it seems pretty clear that really does care for me deeply. And I think he doesn't know what to do about it, because I don't think he was planning on letting any woman get this close to him again, and we're only on the verge of real emotional intimacy at this point.
> 
> If the heart is going to win out on this one, it's going to take a really long time.
> 
> Congrats on your new place. Bummer about the fridge! Did you finally get it in, or did you have to return it?



I exchanged the fridge for a smaller one!

I did something silly, whenever my friend comes over, I go to sleep before he does. Anyway, I was asleep when he came to bed, he held me and I blurted out "I love you (his name)"

He just held me tighter and kissed me. People want to know they are loved! That is all I am saying~


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## RandomDude

Reflecting on life... once I was rich with a high income and had no love, and was miserable. Now I am poor with very limited income and have found love, I'm happier, but all this is a shock to my system now as I go back to study. *sigh*


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Reflecting on life... once I was rich with a high income and had no love, and was miserable. Now I am poor with very limited income and have found love, I'm happier, but all this is a shock to my system now as I go back to study. *sigh*


And don't forget, you're also pursuing your dreams with your degree and career change.

You'll have money again. You'll be much better off for this experience


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## 3Xnocharm

Did I miss something? Did RD quit his job?? (or sell his business or whatever...)


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Did I miss something? Did RD quit his job?? (or sell his business or whatever...)


Yes? Sort of? He was talking of selling the business and going back to school. Some here (myself included) advised that he not sell the business, but instead step back from the day-to day operations and hire some execs/managment folks to handle the running of the business.

I don't know what he did in regards to the business, but he's started the "back to school" part, by the sound of it.


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## 3Xnocharm

Got it, thanks! I scrolled back but evidently not far enough, lol....


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## Red Sonja

FeministInPink said:


> Some here (myself included) advised that he not sell the business, but instead step back from the day-to day operations and hire some execs/managment folks to handle the running of the business.


I did this very same thing a few years ago and it was a good decision for me. It allowed me to focus more on other things that I wanted to pursue and, it de-stressed my life.


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## TooNice

My son is home from college for a couple of days. I had debated whether to tell him about this guy I've been seeing, and how to do that. My son was telling me today that some of his girlfriend's extended family members were a little put out that she hadn't told them that she has a boyfriend. That led to a conversation about the fact that on both sides, they have told their parents and siblings, and they are really the ones who matter. 

So... I told him later that after that, I felt I needed to tell him that I'm seeing someone. 

His response?

"Cool."

Ha! And I was so worried. 

He didn't ask questions, though... so he still doesn't know how old said boyfriend is, but I'm just gonna take one thing at a time here.


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## RandomDude

I'm still in the process of delegation but it's quietening down now off peak so I can focus on my studies. Already costing me alot more since I used to do everything myself for example now I have to hire HR for 80K to do 25% of my job, another 80K to do 45% (account management), and another 120K to do the other 30% (general management) - in addition to the department heads in operations I've already hired. I may still sell, depending on the circumstances. I still have my safety rope around me in cause all goes to hell, but I'd rather not sell or pull out of my studies unless I really need to.

The main thing I'm worried about is mutiny because if new management starts doing silly like labor cost cuts there goes the priviledges the team has enjoyed for years. Then I'll probably sell before I see my own business burn down around me. My team aren't exactly happy I'm leaving, but... I can't live for them anymore, have to live for myself!


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> My son is home from college for a couple of days. I had debated whether to tell him about this guy I've been seeing, and how to do that. My son was telling me today that some of his girlfriend's extended family members were a little put out that she hadn't told them that she has a boyfriend. That led to a conversation about the fact that on both sides, they have told their parents and siblings, and they are really the ones who matter.
> 
> So... I told him later that after that, I felt I needed to tell him that I'm seeing someone.
> 
> His response?
> 
> "Cool."
> 
> Ha! And I was so worried.
> 
> He didn't ask questions, though... so he still doesn't know how old said boyfriend is, but I'm just gonna take one thing at a time here.


I think our kids are sometimes smarter than we are. All they really want is for us to be happy. We tend to get fixated on upsetting them with our life's problems. The reality is they would rather see us happy and deal with whatever changes we make rather than be miserable and stuck.


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## TooNice

It's been an emotional few days... my son was home, which was planned, but there was also a death in my ex's family. Along with some things my son has been going through, it resulted in a great deal of time spent talking the past few days. Talking about things in both our lives.

The visitation was also the first time I have seen most of my ex's family since we split. I was very nervous, but I think I handled things well. Everyone was so kind and loving, and I think really very glad that I came. But it was hard. My son and I left together and had some time in the car after, and he proved once again how insightful he really is. I'm a really lucky girl. 

On a lighter/dating note, I did ask him how he feels about age differences in relationships. Even if things don't work out with the guy I am seeing, I have a tendency to date younger men, so I figured I might as well tell him that and put it out there as a general topic. He said he doesn't think it's a big deal at all... unless I am dating someone very close to his age. He thinks anyone young enough to be my son may cross the line - lol. He didn't have a problem at all with a 30 year old. 

And on a final note, said 30 year old came over last night to help me decompress. It was a very hard few days... emotional for so many reasons. He was pretty amazing. He's never really asked questions about my divorce, and told me last night he simply didn't want to pry and figured I would tell him when I was ready. So last night, I told him. I felt he should have a little background about why going to the visitation would be hard, but also why I knew I could walk in with my head high. So we talked, I shared details, and I cried. And he just listened and held me. As the night went on, we had a great time continuing to talk and share and just enjoyed each other. 

And we determined that while it's been unsaid until now, we can probably start using the boyfriend/girlfriend terminology. So that happened. And I am so grateful to have had someone to turn to after everything that happened this weekend.


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice Sorry to hear that you were dealing with all that! I'm sure your XH's family appreciated that you came to the visitation/service--most people would have stayed away, or dropped off/picked up their child (assuming the other parent would be present), or insisted that the child go with the other parent--so I'm thinking that it may have been a pleasant surprise. 

About a year after my divorce, one of my XH's cousins passed away. I was particularly saddened, because she and I clicked as soon as we met, and had developed a relationship between us that was separate from her relationship with my XH. They really weren't close, as there was a 15-yr age gap between the two of them--which is funny, because that means there was a 20+ yr age gap between her and myself. And she was the only person in his family who stayed in touch with me when he and I split up, and she was incredibly supportive and loving during that time. I would have loved to pay my respects, but aside from the fact that the service was in Florida and would have been a huge financial burden at the time, I also knew that I would be very unwelcome at the service. I had learned (through her, actually) that my XH had been telling his mother all kinds of lies about me, making himself out to be the victim (and me this horrible, horrible witch), stories which had spread like wildfire through his family (my X-MIL was one of six sisters, and they TALK).

And I'm really just saying this to tell you I know how hard that must have been, and I think you're a brave and good person for going. And I'm sure that it meant a lot to your XH's family.

*hugs*


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## TooNice

Thank you, @FeministInPink. That means a lot. I have stayed in touch with a couple of people, so I knew I would be welcome. (My SIL actually texted me to let me know about the death a good 3-4 hours before my ex told me.) 

I did start another thread about it, if anyone is interested. I have been anticipating this event pretty much since my ex and I split. It was inevitable - just a matter of how long it would be before it happened. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-a...ents-your-exs-family-but-still-yours-too.html


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## FeministInPink

OK, be prepared for sweetness overload...

Last night, I was stepping out to go to the grocery store and to the mall to get a new pair of slacks for work. It was a little before 8 pm, and I hadn't eaten dinner, since I was planning on getting something from the grocery store. I walk outside, and realize that I have locked myself out of the house. I call my one roommate, and she's staying over at her girlfriend's place in the city and won't be back until morning. My other roommate is at martial arts, so I know he won't be back until about 10:40 or so.

We HAD a lockbox with a spare key in it on the door, for which I had the combination and could have easily let myself back in. But... the property management company did an inspection this past Friday (happens every 6 mos), and they removed the lock box for some reason... even though it's been there ever since I moved in, and no other inspector ever removed it.

So, I'm outside, and I'm bored, because what am I going to do for the next few hours? I have my phone and my wallet, so I'm not totally screwed. So I call Real Estate, and I told him what happened, and we're chatting. I ask him if he's eaten dinner, but he's already eaten. Besides, there are a ton of restaurants nearby I can walk to. So he says, "You're really bored, aren't you?"

And I say, "Well, I have my phone to entertain me, and I'm thinking I'll go somewhere nearby and get some food."

And he says, "But it would be better with company, right?" And at that moment, I see his car pull into my driveway, and he tells me to come get in the car so he can take me to get some dinner. I get in the car, and he's like, "I couldn't just leave you out in the cold (it wasn't that cold) and bored, waiting for your roommate to come home. I'm like a knight, I had to come to your rescue. But I'm not a knight in shining armor. I'm like a cross between a knight and pervert." And he took me to get some food, and hung out with me while I ate dinner, and then we went back to his place and watched YouTube videos until my roommate came home.

It was just really sweet that he came to get me. I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself, but it's nice when someone cares enough that you don't have to go it alone.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> OK, be prepared for sweetness overload...
> 
> 
> 
> Last night, I was stepping out to go to the grocery store and to the mall to get a new pair of slacks for work. It was a little before 8 pm, and I hadn't eaten dinner, since I was planning on getting something from the grocery store. I walk outside, and realize that I have locked myself out of the house. I call my one roommate, and she's staying over at her girlfriend's place in the city and won't be back until morning. My other roommate is at martial arts, so I know he won't be back until about 10:40 or so.
> 
> 
> 
> We HAD a lockbox with a spare key in it on the door, for which I had the combination and could have easily let myself back in. But... the property management company did an inspection this past Friday (happens every 6 mos), and they removed the lock box for some reason... even though it's been there ever since I moved in, and no other inspector ever removed it.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm outside, and I'm bored, because what am I going to do for the next few hours? I have my phone and my wallet, so I'm not totally screwed. So I call Real Estate, and I told him what happened, and we're chatting. I ask him if he's eaten dinner, but he's already eaten. Besides, there are a ton of restaurants nearby I can walk to. So he says, "You're really bored, aren't you?"
> 
> 
> 
> And I say, "Well, I have my phone to entertain me, and I'm thinking I'll go somewhere nearby and get some food."
> 
> 
> 
> And he says, "But it would be better with company, right?" And at that moment, I see his car pull into my driveway, and he tells me to come get in the car so he can take me to get some dinner. I get in the car, and he's like, "I couldn't just leave you out in the cold (it wasn't that cold) and bored, waiting for your roommate to come home. I'm like a knight, I had to come to your rescue. But I'm not a knight in shining armor. I'm like a cross between a knight and pervert." And he took me to get some food, and hung out with me while I ate dinner, and then we went back to his place and watched YouTube videos until my roommate came home.
> 
> 
> 
> It was just really sweet that he came to get me. I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself, but it's nice when someone cares enough that you don't have to go it alone.




Very nice FIP. 

And, FWIW... @Bananapeel 

Probably the last thing you should tell someone when they're REALLY down is "quit feeling sorry for yourself and...etc". 

Sometimes it's nice to know that someone is just there for you. That's all I wish I had on my birthday evening. 

Insert "you asshat" here. 


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## Bananapeel

You didn't like my motivational spiel?! I guess I answered your post with the stereotypical male (problem solver) approach rather than the stereotypical female (empathetic) approach. I'm much better at dealing with that discrepancy in person because I need to read the non-verbal cues to know which way to respond. Anyway, happy B-day and I wish you the best for the upcoming year!


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## Elizabeth001

Bananapeel said:


> You didn't like my motivational spiel?! I guess I answered your post with the stereotypical male (problem solver) approach rather than the stereotypical female (empathetic) approach. I'm much better at dealing with that discrepancy in person because I need to read the non-verbal cues to know which way to respond. Anyway, happy B-day and I wish you the best for the upcoming year!




:x
Thank you )


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## Elizabeth001

Oh...and to make the stereo typical male feel better… "Good boy!"

haahaaa


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## Elizabeth001

*pats @Bananapeel on the head. *




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## RandomDude

Cuddlebunny is getting chubby

Hmmm...


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Cuddlebunny is getting chubby
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm...




Rug roh...trouble in paradise?


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## RandomDude

Not really, unless she gets even bigger, I value the health of my pelvic bone after all
Still, I wonder how to encourage her to diet/hit the gym again

She likes sweet I like savoury! >.<


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Not really, unless she gets even bigger, I value the health of my pelvic bone after all
> 
> Still, I wonder how to encourage her to diet/hit the gym again
> 
> 
> 
> She likes sweet I like savoury! >.<




Hmm. Dunno. I think the old saying is "fat & happy". I think some weight gain is a given in a contented situation. I've lost 2 dress sizes on the "divorce diet". See what I mean?

Try to plan things that keep you moving. Ever heard of geocaching? Google it. It's easy to overindulge when you're in a harmonious state. Try to eat healthy and stay active. 

That's all I have. Give it a little time. See what happens. 


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## Elizabeth001

PS: Buy a large bottle of sweet and sour sauce. ROFL!


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## RandomDude

Hmmm ok, time to push the whale back into the ocean.... *ahem* ... I mean take her to the beach so we can swim


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## Elizabeth001

Ouch


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## RandomDude

I mean swimming in the beach I swear!  lol

PS Think that would have been one hell of a slap!


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## Bananapeel

RandomDude said:


> Not really, unless she gets even bigger, I value the health of my pelvic bone after all
> Still, I wonder how to encourage her to diet/hit the gym again
> 
> She likes sweet I like savoury! >.<


Are you exercising and keeping in shape? If so, then it's reasonable to want the same from your GF. So just be direct tell her that you noticed she's packing on the pounds and you'd like her to drop a few. Oh, and please record and post a video of the conversation so I can get a good laugh when she smacks you!


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## ne9907

RandomDude said:


> Cuddlebunny is getting chubby
> 
> Hmmm...


It is perfectly normal to gain a few (maybe even 10) pounds when dating and in love 

She loooooooooooooooooooves you


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## RandomDude

Heh well she's got some weight now behind her slaps so if she does she might knock out some teeth >.<! lol

PS Exaggerating btw, gotta make fun of it somehow heh


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> It is perfectly normal to gain a few (maybe even 10) pounds when dating and in love
> 
> She loooooooooooooooooooves you


I knew I was doooooooooooomed!! >.<

lol


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## FeministInPink

My XH used to call it the love chubs. When you're happy and in love, you tend to indulge a little more. I'm more likely to order dessert when Real Estate and I go out to dinner than I will if I'm alone, or just with friends; if I'm by myself, I don't order an appetizer, but when we go out, RE likes to look for an appetizer he thinks I'll enjoy. And we go to this brunch place where they have all-you-can-eat crab legs, which I love, and he like to surprise me by taking me there on a random weekend because it makes me SO EXCITED and he loves how excited I get over it, and they have root beer floats there, so I always get a root beer float. (He used to always get a bloody Mary or an irish coffee, but he's started getting root beer floats, too!)

(I sometimes think he's testing his knowledge of my likes and dislikes. it's like trivia to him. He tries hard, but he forgets sometimes... we went to get dinner this past Saturday after running some errands, and he says do you like Vietnamese food? I answer, I don't know that I've ever had Vietnamese food, but I'll give it a try. But he takes me to a Thai restaurant--he thought it was Vietnamese--and we sit down, and there's a little pepper next to nearly every item on the menu. I didn't say anything, I figured I would find SOMETHING I could eat on the menu, but he catches the look on my face as I'm reading the menu, and he says, "****, I forgot, you can't eat anything here, can you? There's peppers in everything. Let's go somewhere else." [I'm allergic to peppers.] And he took the menu out of my hands and we went to another place nearby.)

But I digress. My point is that you tend to go out and eat a little richer sometimes, and maybe you spend less time working out because it's more fun to stay at home and snuggle.

The funny thing is that I've turned RE on to some stuff that you wouldn't expect. He now has a fruit, spinach, and yogurt smoothie every morning (although he insists on using juice--all that sugar!--instead of green tea, which is what I like to use), and he's always asking when I'm going to get another Blue Apron delivery. (I get one about once a month or so, usually when I forget to cancel it.) He doesn't really cook much, and he LOVES it when I cook for him. And it's funny, because he's one of those people who thinks of food as "just fuel" (at least that's what he says) whereas it's just a total sensory, emotional experience. (I have some food issues, I think I equate it with love, which is why I'm fat. But I also just LOVE REALLY GOOD FOOD.) I think he just grew accustomed to not eating REAL FOOD, and I'm reintroducing him to that.


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## RandomDude

The love chubs? lol

Hmmm... maybe that's what I should say, "I think you caught the love chubs", and make it more of a teasing thing, and reassure her physically at the same time instead of outright saying "hey honey, you got fat!"



> But he takes me to a Thai restaurant--he thought it was Vietnamese


Waaah! don't tell me the American stereotype is true in his case >.< lol


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## Hopeful Cynic

If you're allowed to give up your income and become a student, why isn't she allowed to give up her physique?


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## RandomDude

Ey? So for her to get back in shape I have to earn big?


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## 225985

RandomDude said:


> Ey? So for her to get back in shape I have to earn big?




It depends on whether she is attracted to you or your income. If your income then yes you have to maintain it or she walks.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> The love chubs? lol
> 
> Hmmm... maybe that's what I should say, "I think you caught the love chubs", and make it more of a teasing thing, and reassure her physically at the same time instead of outright saying "hey honey, you got fat!"
> 
> 
> Waaah! don't tell me the American stereotype is true in his case >.< lol


No, the stereotype isn't true in his case. He knows the difference. It was a simple case of misremembering.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> No, the stereotype isn't true in his case. He knows the difference. It was a simple case of misremembering.




I'm just jelly because I LOVE Thai food. Wish we had a Thai place here. Bummer for you fip with the allergy and all 


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## RandomDude

blueinbr said:


> It depends on whether she is attracted to you or your income. If your income then yes you have to maintain it or she walks.


Attracted to ME ^_^
That's why I'm even bothering to have a LTR with her, otherwise she would still be a FWB to this day


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I'm just jelly because I LOVE Thai food. Wish we had a Thai place here. Bummer for you fip with the allergy and all
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure I could have found something to eat, buy when so many things on the menu have peppers or are labeled as spicy, there's always a concern about cross-contamination. I've had instances where I've ordered something I've had in the past with no problem, only to discover that a new cook decided to add red pepper flakes either by mistake or intentionally, and then I can't eat it.

I'm lucky that it's a mild allergy... I just get hives, I don't go into anaphylactic shock, so it's not life threatening.

It is a little unfortunate, because I do love trying new foods. But many things are off the table, and if someone suggests something, I always have to ask, "Are there peppers in it?"

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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I'm just jelly because I LOVE Thai food. Wish we had a Thai place here. Bummer for you fip with the allergy and all
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure I could have found something to eat, buy when so many things on the menu have peppers or are labeled as spicy, there's always a concern about cross-contamination. I've had instances where I've ordered something I've had in the past with no problem, only to discover that a new cook decided to add red pepper flakes either by mistake or intentionally, and then I can't eat it.

I'm lucky that it's a mild allergy... I just get hives, I don't go into anaphylactic shock, so it's not life threatening.

It is a little unfortunate, because I do love trying new foods. But many things are off the table, and if someone suggests something, I always have to ask, "Are there peppers in it?"

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I'm sure I could have found something to eat, buy when so many things on the menu have peppers or are labeled as spicy, there's always a concern about cross-contamination. I've had instances where I've ordered something I've had in the past with no problem, only to discover that a new cook decided to add red pepper flakes either by mistake or intentionally, and then I can't eat it.
> 
> I'm lucky that it's a mild allergy... I just get hives, I don't go into anaphylactic shock, so it's not life threatening.
> 
> It is a little unfortunate, because I do love trying new foods. But many things are off the table, and if someone suggests something, I always have to ask, "Are there peppers in it?"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I'm quoting it because I can't like it. lol 


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## Hopeful Cynic

RandomDude said:


> Ey? So for her to get back in shape I have to earn big?


It's nothing to do with you or your earnings. I was just pointing out your double standard. You are free to earn whatever you are comfortable with, and she is free to weigh whatever she is comfortable with.

Women often 'let themselves go' after they've established a relationship. If being attractive and in shape was for the purpose of attracting a man and not for her own internally motivated reasons, now that she has you, she is free to be herself, which may mean going to the gym less and eating more dessert.

If you want her back in shape, make sure she has time for her previous physical pursuits (has her gym time been reduced in favour of dates with you?). Have chats with her about health and fitness to find out her thoughts about motivation (in a way that doesn't imply she's no longer attractive, by the way). Don't do dates that involve lots of rich food, sugary drinks, or sedentary activities, etc.


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## TooNice

Thought I'd check in with an update. And I guess it's time to name the guy I am seeing. Do you guys recall a few weeks after I met him and we cancelled a coffee date because I had a sore throat? He stopped by with a thermos full of tea for me. So... Let's just call him Tea Guy. 

I had a work/community fundraising event to attend last night. I wasn't going to ask him to go, since it involved a good many introductions and could have been pretty uncomfortable for many people to be thrust into that so early in a dating relationship. My plus one had to cancel last minute, and TG said he would gladly be my arm candy for the evening. He was awesome. He even snuck in a purchase at the silent auction and presented me with a necklace at the end of the night, so I'd have something to remember the evening. 

I was speechless. I have not had anyone do such thoughtful things for me before, and it is sweeping me off my feet. I think I kind of like this guy.


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## RandomDude

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It's nothing to do with you or your earnings. I was just pointing out your double standard. You are free to earn whatever you are comfortable with, and she is free to weigh whatever she is comfortable with.
> 
> Women often 'let themselves go' after they've established a relationship. If being attractive and in shape was for the purpose of attracting a man and not for her own internally motivated reasons, now that she has you, she is free to be herself, which may mean going to the gym less and eating more dessert.
> 
> If you want her back in shape, make sure she has time for her previous physical pursuits (has her gym time been reduced in favour of dates with you?). Have chats with her about health and fitness to find out her thoughts about motivation (in a way that doesn't imply she's no longer attractive, by the way). Don't do dates that involve lots of rich food, sugary drinks, or sedentary activities, etc.


Ey? No she's free to earn whatever she wants to as well, but free to weigh whatever she is comfortable with? Well I can't stop her, but I won't be attracted to her if she gets fat. Neither would I expect her to be attracted to me if I get out of shape. Besides she's made it very clear physical attraction is a priority for her, while material standards are zilch. I'm happy with that, makes me feel like I'm hot stuff ^^

So nope, no double standard here 

She has all the time in the world, and she likes her sweets with or without me.


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Ey? No she's free to earn whatever she wants to as well, but free to weigh whatever she is comfortable with? Well I can't stop her, but I won't be attracted to her if she gets fat. Neither would I expect her to be attracted to me if I get out of shape. Besides she's made it very clear physical attraction is a priority for her, while material standards are zilch. I'm happy with that, makes me feel like I'm hot stuff ^^
> 
> 
> 
> So nope, no double standard here
> 
> 
> 
> She has all the time in the world, and she likes her sweets with or without me.




My advice is to back out of this relationship now. You're not in it for the right reasons. That is all. 


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## RandomDude

Is it so wrong to desire their partner to be attractive? I don't think so, nor does she. I say we're a good match in that, one thing we do have in common.


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Is it so wrong to desire their partner to be attractive? I don't think so, nor does she. I say we're a good match in that, one thing we do have in common.




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

If you're such a perfect match, why run to your online therapy group at the first sign of something you don't like?

I don't know why I bother. I answered the first post of yours regarding this issue and 20 freakin people answered pretty much the same as I did. Do you need a board upside the head? Flicking think about it. 

And here's another thing while I'm at it. You left a bad situation. My money is on the fact that you couldn't talk to that person because seriously...MOST things can be worked out in open and honest communication. Are you saying you're back in the same boat?

Effing TALK to her...not US. If you can't, spare her some wasted time and BAIL. 

UGH!


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> If you're such a perfect match, why run to your online therapy group at the first sign of something you don't like?
> 
> I don't know why I bother. I answered the first post of yours regarding this issue and 20 freakin people answered pretty much the same as I did. Do you need a board upside the head? Flicking think about it.
> 
> And here's another thing while I'm at it. You left a bad situation. My money is on the fact that you couldn't talk to that person because seriously...MOST things can be worked out in open and honest communication. Are you saying you're back in the same boat?
> 
> Effing TALK to her...not US. If you can't, spare her some wasted time and BAIL.
> 
> UGH!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


RD is a little neurotic and overthinks things. It's why he comes here first, to get it out of his system so he doesn't do something stupid IRL.

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## RandomDude

Like tell her she's fat ^^

(Which she isn't, I like to exaggerate, trait of my neurotism  )


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## tripad

Hi all , I am so out of touch here since I have no love stories to contribute .

Seriously , i got to get into some activities with single men around . The table tennis group I am in has wonderful people in it but they are mainly older folks or way younger folks or married folks . 

The only good news I have is that my jobs n hence income is picking up well . N i just had a blast of a holiday with my children in Japan skiing on the beautiful mountains plus a trip to Disneyland . My boys told me it's their best holiday ever .


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## RandomDude

Delegate or sell, then study! Lots of boytoys there at uni for you I'm sure 

I'm loving my course, really forces me to work on my less developed side of the brain - creative side. Just did a presentation for an assignment and everyone loved it, guess all the years presenting and pitching to investors and clients paid off  Really gives me hope for the future, if I can sell my ideas for production, maybe my dreams isn't as far fetched as I once thought...

Somehow, someway, my life feels on track. Relationships are secondary.


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## 225985

RandomDude said:


> Delegate or sell, then study! Lots of boytoys there at uni for you I'm sure
> 
> 
> 
> I'm loving my course, really forces me to work on my less developed side of the brain - creative side. Just did a presentation for an assignment and everyone loved it, guess all the years presenting and pitching to investors and clients paid off  Really gives me hope for the future, if I can sell my ideas for production, maybe my dreams isn't as far fetched as I once thought...
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow, someway, my life feels on track. Relationships are secondary.




Don't tell GF she is secondary


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## ne9907

I have been sick since Monday. First, food poisoning from a sausage, egg, and cheese biscuit from McDonalds, then today I went to the doctor and have an acute UTI.... ugh...
The pain is so bad... I don't even want to pee.... but of course, pee I shall and must!!

On other news, my friends has been staying with me for a while. The good news is that he took care of me while I was sick, bad news?? He is homeless and wants to crash at my place... I am digging myself in a hole I do not want to surface from.

This guy has a tendency to "crash" in people's places until they get tired of him and kick him out. He does not have a job! I told him if he continues to want to stay with me, he must get a job. The bright side is that he cooks dinner, cleans the house, takes care of my cat, and of course takes care of me.

Not sure I am cut out to have a "house boyfriend?" a la housewife... That is what he wants to be!!!!


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## RandomDude

blueinbr said:


> Don't tell GF she is secondary


Ooooo... too late 

Kidding 

Highwaaaay to the danger zooone! :yay:







:yay:


----------



## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> I have been sick since Monday. First, food poisoning from a sausage, egg, and cheese biscuit from McDonalds, then today I went to the doctor and have an acute UTI.... ugh...
> The pain is so bad... I don't even want to pee.... but of course, pee I shall and must!!
> 
> On other news, my friends has been staying with me for a while. The good news is that he took care of me while I was sick, bad news?? He is homeless and wants to crash at my place... I am digging myself in a hole I do not want to surface from.
> 
> This guy has a tendency to "crash" in people's places until they get tired of him and kick him out. He does not have a job! I told him if he continues to want to stay with me, he must get a job. The bright side is that he cooks dinner, cleans the house, takes care of my cat, and of course takes care of me.
> 
> Not sure I am cut out to have a "house boyfriend?" a la housewife... That is what he wants to be!!!!


Ugh - so sorry to hear you've been unwell. I am waiting for a call back from my doctor to find out whether I have a kidney stone. Been in lots of pain for the past couple days. And I have back to back trips starting in two days. :frown2: I hate the waiting, though... would really like confirmation of what is wrong!

The boyfriend has been given housekeys so he can check in on my kitty while I am gone. Feels a little strange, but it's nice, too. He's coming over tonight, and I am looking forward to not being alone while I feel so yucky. 

Wish I had good advice for you... that's a tricky situation to be in for sure. I think telling him to get a job is a good move. Let him contribute financially, too!

Hope you feel better soon!

Updated to add: the scans they did to find my pain source all came back looking fine. That's good to know that there is nothing seriously wrong. Unfortunately, it leaves me with mystery pain... maybe gas or menstrual related. I need to take ibuprofen and hope it clears up in the next day or two.


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## ne9907

TooNice said:


> Updated to add: the scans they did to find my pain source all came back looking fine. That's good to know that there is nothing seriously wrong. Unfortunately, it leaves me with mystery pain... maybe gas or menstrual related. I need to take ibuprofen and hope it clears up in the next day or two.


are you feeling better?


----------



## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> are you feeling better?


I am, thank you! The pain still comes and goes, but I've been talking with my PA, and we are keeping an eye on things. But it's definitely better than it was earlier this week!


----------



## moco82

So, fresh question about online dating.

Why is Tinder so consistently referred to as a "hook-up app"? I would, honestly, love to have a dedicated app for that purpose (and another for high-brow sophisticated dating), but Tinder just does not seem radically different from the rest. Except that women go out of their way to write in their profiles that they are not looking for hook-ups. Is there some secret code to follow, some secret handshake for people looking for short-term relationships on Tinder? The whole thing just seems like false advertising 

P. S. It goes without saying that if you're a truly good-looking guy who stands out, any app (or the queue at the supermarket) is your hook-up app.


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## Diana7

moco82 said:


> So, fresh question about online dating.
> 
> Why is Tinder so consistently referred to as a "hook-up app"? I would, honestly, love to have a dedicated app for that purpose (and another for high-brow sophisticated dating), but Tinder just does not seem radically different from the rest. Except that women go out of their way to write in their profiles that they are not looking for hook-ups. Is there some secret code to follow, some secret handshake for people looking for short-term relationships on Tinder? The whole thing just seems like false advertising
> 
> P. S. It goes without saying that if you're a truly good-looking guy who stands out, any app (or the queue at the supermarket) is your hook-up app.


I would find a better site if you want a long term relationship.


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## Bananapeel

moco82 said:


> So, fresh question about online dating.
> 
> Why is Tinder so consistently referred to as a "hook-up app"? I would, honestly, love to have a dedicated app for that purpose (and another for high-brow sophisticated dating), but Tinder just does not seem radically different from the rest. Except that women go out of their way to write in their profiles that they are not looking for hook-ups. Is there some secret code to follow, some *secret handshake *for people looking for short-term relationships on Tinder? The whole thing just seems like false advertising
> 
> P. S. It goes without saying that if you're a truly good-looking guy who stands out, any app (or the queue at the supermarket) is your hook-up app.


I'll let you in on a little secret... On your next tinder date start with two forward hand slaps, elbow to elbow, turn clockwise in a circle, quick thumb war, then a two pump handshake. Trust me on this! :wink2:

Seriously though, all the sites are the same. The same people tend to frequent multiple sites. If you want quick hookup, just be a good looking and successful guy and you'll find plenty of women will sleep with you pretty much right away. You then get to decide if you want to extend the relationship further. It doesn't matter where you meet them whether it's online or not.


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## moco82

Bananapeel said:


> If you want quick hookup, just be a good looking and successful guy and you'll find plenty of women will sleep with you pretty much right away. You then get to decide if you want to extend the relationship further.


That hasn't changed in millennia, has it. I suspect that Tinder servers as hook-up app for a large segment of the population, but does little to democratize hook-ups, contrary to the average guy's expectations.

Also would be curious to hear if any woman who set out to use Tinder for a hook-up actually came up empty.


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## Elizabeth001

So...how bout that herpes?


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## moco82

Elizabeth001 said:


> So...how bout that herpes?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Utterly unthinkable when both parties' proclaimed goal is a long-term relationship.


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## FeministInPink

So, Real Estate and I have made it past the one-year mark! It's funny... since our fight at the beginning of March over the future and intent of our relationship (after which I told him--after a LOT of deliberation on my part--that I wasn't going anywhere, because I decided it's not time for that conversation yet, because going nuclear and giving him what is essentially an ultimatum won't work and will make both of us unhappy), our relationship has continued to grow more intimate and stronger. It's almost as if by not trying to tie him down and get a commitment out of him, he has become more committed and invested in us. He's opening up more and allowing himself to be more vulnerable than he was before. His walls are still up, but he's letting me in more than before... so I guess he actually was listening to me when we were having our big argument. 

(That's still a revelation, after a year... I've grown so accustomed to having my feelings and concerns dismissed, for literally my entire life, so accustomed to people simply not listening to me, that it still surprises me that he actually LISTENS and HEARS what I'm saying, even hears the things I want to say but can't. It blows my freaking mind. I don't know if I'll ever get used to that.)

And the last few weeks, he's been simply amazing. I've been incredibly stressed at work and working long hours, bringing work home over the weekends, not to mention problems with my boss, and he's just been great this whole time--it's like he's known exactly what I've needed. Like the one night I went over after work, having put in several extra hours, and my brain was just fried. He was lying in bed--he was taking a nap while he waited for me--and he was like, "Come give me a hug," and when I did, he grabbed me and pulled me into bed and just cuddled me for a while to help me de-stress. He's crank-called me at work a couple times to make me laugh, which has really cheered me up. I've really needed someone to lean on these past few weeks, and he's been my rock.

I think patience and not pushing the issue was the right way to go.

In other news, Flower is doing well. While her incontinence issues haven't cleared up completely, she's doing much better. We still put the diaper on her overnight or when we go out, but if we're home with her and can let her out, we can leave the doggy diaper off. Real Estate still has to puree her food, and that looks like it's going to be a permanent change, but she's been eating well, no vomiting for a few weeks now, and she's slowly gaining her weight back. 

In other news, his sister is not doing well... it's simply a matter of time at this point. She needs to have someone with her 24/7 at this point... the cancer has spread to every part of her brain, it seems. She can no longer walk without help, but she can't remember that she can't walk without help, so if someone isn't watching her, she'll stand up and try to walk across the room and fall down. And she's no longer lucid, apparently. It's very sad. Real Estate gives me updates when he talks to his family, but he won't talk about how he feels, which I understand... I know how this makes him feel. They asked him to take some time to come home to help take care of her and see her, but he's not going to... it sounds bad, but I understand why. His oldest brother (H) is living with his sister f/t and taking care of her (he's retired), and his other older brother and his wife live very close and are helping take care of her as well, and they have it pretty well covered. Because Real Estate works for himself and has to be on call for his clients 24/7, he can't just up and leave at the drop of a hat... they live 12 hours away. And he simply doesn't want to see his sister like that. Real Estate and his sister had to take care of their mother when she was sick and dying--here where he and I live now, not where they all live--without the help of his older brothers, and I think he simply doesn't want to go through that again. That he doesn't think he's strong enough to handle it, maybe.

My heart breaks for him over this. I realize that I have been very fortunate in my life that most people in my life have lived long and healthy lives; my father's parents both passed in their mid 70s, but their siblings and wives all lived into their late 80's, some of whom are still alive and still in good health. My mother's parents are in their mid-late 80's now, and it's only recently that my grandmother's health has weakened. All my aunts and uncles are in good health, and I expect them to be for some time now, as are my own parents. But Real Estate's parents both passed away when he was around my age, and now his sister. I can't even pretend to know how that feels. Even in another 10 years, when I get to be Real Estate's age (he's 10 yrs older than me), I expect that my parents will still be in good health. I may be tempting fate, but I've been very lucky that death has not yet touched me so closely.

All I can do is be here for him and support him the best that I can.


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## RandomDude

22 hour days all this week with 2 hours sleep each day with study and work at the same time has pushed me past the edge of insanity and neurosis!!!

Must recover! >.<


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## CatJayBird

YAY!! I'm single....lol


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## Elizabeth001

moco82 said:


> Utterly unthinkable when both parties' proclaimed goal is a long-term relationship.




I can't believe you peeps didn't jump all over this!

Jus' sayin'...



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## 3Xnocharm

CatJayBird said:


> YAY!! I'm single....lol


:woohoo::woohoo:


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## JukeboxHero

moco82 said:


> So, fresh question about online dating.
> 
> Why is Tinder so consistently referred to as a "hook-up app"? I would, honestly, love to have a dedicated app for that purpose (and another for high-brow sophisticated dating), but Tinder just does not seem radically different from the rest. Except that women go out of their way to write in their profiles that they are not looking for hook-ups. Is there some secret code to follow, some secret handshake for people looking for short-term relationships on Tinder? The whole thing just seems like false advertising
> 
> P. S. It goes without saying that if you're a truly good-looking guy who stands out, any app (or the queue at the supermarket) is your hook-up app.


Haha, I was wondering the same thing. I was thinking that I might want to do a few short term relationships now that I'm single again. I got Tinder while out of town, but no matches so far. 

Also, I've never used Tinder before, but so far I only see that I can swipe right or left and "Like" photos. Is there a way to read profiles too? Do people know when you swiped them so they can swipe back?

I'm not a great-looking guy so I probably don't have a huge advantage on Tinder.


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## Ynot

moco82 said:


> So, fresh question about online dating.
> 
> Why is Tinder so consistently referred to as a "hook-up app"? I would, honestly, love to have a dedicated app for that purpose (and another for high-brow sophisticated dating), but Tinder just does not seem radically different from the rest. Except that women go out of their way to write in their profiles that they are not looking for hook-ups. Is there some secret code to follow, some secret handshake for people looking for short-term relationships on Tinder? The whole thing just seems like false advertising
> 
> P. S. It goes without saying that if you're a truly good-looking guy who stands out, any app (or the queue at the supermarket) is your hook-up app.


The only magic handshake is to just be honest. Be your true self with everybody you meet. Blaming not getting laid on being "average" or "not good looking" is limited thinking. If you just want laid, be honest about it. You will get laid. Just be confident in advocating for your self. That doesn't mean every woman is going to drop her shorts for you, but some will. One of the unfortunate aspects of modern society, is that women are still held to standards that impose humility and chastity on them. If they ever said out loud what they are really looking for (a hook up for instance) they are shamed. So some women will say they are looking for a relationship, when in fact what they really want is just a sexual relationship. But if you are going let "average" looks hold you back, you are bound to get "friended" and never have your needs met.


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## tripad

Checking on all your posts .

Nothing interesting in my life . Work n kids all day and all going well .

The only new developement is that my ex husband on his visit had been enquiring my domestic helper about my personal life n if i have a bf . It seems like he is having his regrets . But , there is no way i will ever get back with him even if he were on his knees . So , nothing new n exciting .

Then , there is this man i approached on the street to borrow his hp as my hp was flat and i had to make an urgent call . He was a really nice man who lent me his phone and yet offered me his hp battery n cable and for me to return him another time . I wonder if he was creating an opportunity as i saw he was looking at my left hand , checking ring finger perhaps . Nevertheless , i returned the battery in a business like manner and he didnt try to hit on me , which frankly would make me think he is a player if he had . But he was really sweet and nice , like , telling me to drive safe , and offering tissue when i perspired while walking up to him . Really sweet . But i was not remotely attracted to him physically , not really my type , trying not to sound rude here . But , his Porsche was attractive LOL . Now , i am wondering if i should have flutter my eyelids a little . Sigh . But i seriously am not attracted .


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## FeministInPink

@tripad, I hope you told your housekeeper that under no circumstances is it ok foe her to discuss your personal life (of any other part of your life) with your XH. It is none of his business.

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## tripad

Kids n maid all instructed not to talk about me , more importantly in my case , about my finances . My personal life has nothing to do with him .


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## moco82

JukeboxHero said:


> Also, I've never used Tinder before, but so far I only see that I can swipe right or left and "Like" photos. Is there a way to read profiles too? Do people know when you swiped them so they can swipe back?


Tap on the picture and a more detailed profile should display. People don't know who else swiped which way on them, only when there is a mutual match.


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## moco82

Ynot said:


> One of the unfortunate aspects of modern society, is that women are still held to standards that impose humility and chastity on them. If they ever said out loud what they are really looking for (a hook up for instance) they are shamed. So some women will say they are looking for a relationship, when in fact what they really want is just a sexual relationship.


Perhaps my post conjured up an incorrect image of a discontented marginalised figure. I largely follow the mantras you outlined above this quote, stopping short of declaring any relationship goals at all in the bio. It seems that women who are just looking to date likewise just omit this declaration of intent, to avoid the issue. Perhaps this is the code/handshake? And yes, I get laid via Tinder: my post was not a rant, but an invitation to think out loud.


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## Ynot

moco82 said:


> Perhaps my post conjured up an incorrect image of a discontented marginalised figure. I largely follow the mantras you outlined above this quote, stopping short of declaring any relationship goals at all in the bio. It seems that women who are just looking to date likewise just omit this declaration of intent, to avoid the issue. Perhaps this is the code/handshake? And yes, I get laid via Tinder: my post was not a rant, but an invitation to think out loud.


I was not judging. I have no clue who you are or where you are in life. I was merely making an observation. Some women do just omit the declaration of intent. But I have met a few who just wanted laid. People can be desperate in all manners of things. Sometimes they can say what they want, but other times not so much.


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## moco82

Ynot said:


> But I have met a few who just wanted laid. People can be desperate in all manners of things. Sometimes they can say what they want, but other times not so much.


And they stated so in their profiles? Those are the true unicorns, not the ones in Silicon Valley.


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## Bananapeel

JukeboxHero said:


> Haha, I was wondering the same thing. I was thinking that I might want to do a few short term relationships now that I'm single again. I got Tinder while out of town, but no matches so far.
> 
> Also, I've never used Tinder before, but so far I only see that I can swipe right or left and "Like" photos. Is there a way to read profiles too? Do people know when you swiped them so they can swipe back?
> 
> I'm not a great-looking guy so I probably don't have a huge advantage on Tinder.


Don't think this way. It's not about how you look but how you present yourself. I have illogically high levels of confidence and women respond very positively to it. It's not about whether you're the tallest, richest, strongest, best looking, most successful guy. Instead it's about whether you truly know yourself and are happy with who YOU are. If you have a strong self identity and good self esteem, you'll be miles ahead. 



Ynot said:


> The only magic handshake is to just be honest. Be your true self with everybody you meet. Blaming not getting laid on being "average" or "not good looking" is limited thinking. If you just want laid, be honest about it. You will get laid. Just be confident in advocating for your self. That doesn't mean every woman is going to drop her shorts for you, but some will. One of the unfortunate aspects of modern society, is that women are still held to standards that impose humility and chastity on them. If they ever said out loud what they are really looking for (a hook up for instance) they are shamed. So some women will say they are looking for a relationship, when in fact what they really want is just a sexual relationship. But if you are going let "average" looks hold you back, you are bound to get "friended" and never have your needs met.


I agree with everything @Ynot says. However, by their 30's most women have enough confidence that the societal expectations of chastity are largely gone. I think the Corey Wayne utube videos/book might be helpful for you. I personally read MMSLP, Mating in Captivity, a summary of the 5 love languages, and she comes first, while I was doing self reflection post divorce. I think self-reflection and learning post divorce really helped me regain my identity, which in turn made me much more confident/successful with women.


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## RandomDude

Mmm thinking I may need to keep my first business now, I don't think I'm going to risk having to go public with my second company in the future, even if it costs me more in the short run, as damn the big fish are real PREDATORS in the entertainment industry, more so than hospitality. So many companies swallowed up by hostile takeovers and spat out, such waste of talent!

Which means... full time study AND full time work, I'm going to kill myself 
Why can't I seem to catch a break? Bah!


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Which means... full time study AND full time work, I'm going to kill myself
> Why can't I seem to catch a break? Bah!


You know I love you, RD, but just to put a little perspective on this... you have the good fortune to be in a position to do both. Many, many people would think you have caught quite a break. 

I myself did school, work, and ran a household with two small children. It took me 20 years to complete my bachelor's degree. My kids were heading into middle school and college when I finished. But I LOVE what I do, and it was worth every minute. Just keep the end in mind. You'll be just fine.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Mmm thinking I may need to keep my first business now, I don't think I'm going to risk having to go public with my second company in the future, even if it costs me more in the short run, as damn the big fish are real PREDATORS in the entertainment industry, more so than hospitality. So many companies swallowed up by hostile takeovers and spat out, such waste of talent!
> 
> Which means... full time study AND full time work, I'm going to kill myself
> Why can't I seem to catch a break? Bah!


I agree with @TooNice. You can do this. It means busting your ass for a few years, and it means learning how to delegate. Work smarter, not harder. Empower the people who work for you to take on more responsibility by delegating to them the tasks you know they can handle, which you are too busy to do right now. As your company grows, and as you open additional, new ventures, you won't be able to be a hands-on owner the way you have been in the past. You need to learn how to allow other people to run your ventures and report to you.

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## tripad

RD

Actually do you need to study at all since you are in hospitality n entertainment biz ? N it seems your biz is already doing well . Will education enhance your biz ?


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## RandomDude

I have no idea about the entertainment biz, thats why I'm studying! Theres so much to learn even the basics! I want to get into the industry with a solid foundation.

But now I just want to retire but I cant 

I hardly have enough time these days to do anything and the most I've been able to squeeze out with my daughter was half a day and girlfriend just 2 hours!


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## FeministInPink

So, I've started calling Real Estate "Boo" as a bit of a pet name. I started doing it, sort of kidding around, because it feels a little urban and twenty-something silly. I had to explain to him what it meant, because I named my car Boo a long time ago, and he had never heard it before. But, surprise! He loves it when I call him Boo. Last weekend, something was pushing my buttons a bit in regards to my feelings of security in our relationship (it wasn't anything he had done, it was more of an abstract thing), and we were talking about it before falling asleep. We were spooning, and he squeezed me tight, and he said, "You don't have to worry. I'm your dude. I'm your boo. I'm not going anywhere." And I said to him last night, "You've really latched onto this Boo thing. I'm surprised. You really like it, don't you?" And he said, "I do! I really like it. But sometimes, I have to stop myself from saying, 'Hey, Yogi!' Or I might have to start calling you Cindy. That was Yogi Bear's girlfriend."

It was just really sweet. 

A very good friend of his (a former roommate), who happens to share my birthday, is coming to town ON my birthday and staying with Real Estate for a few days. Usually, this means that I won't get to see him until his friend leaves town--that's how it's been since we've gotten together, whenever a friend visits. But this time is different. He's really excited for me to meet his friend, and is planning all kinds of stuff for us to do together: an escape room (including a few of my friends, and one or two of RE's friends whom I haven't met yet), a tree-tops adventure course, go-carting, and miniature golf. It seems like he's starting to being me into other parts of his life, whereas before it always felt like he kept things compartmentalized. This is a very good thing.


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## TheGoodGuy

FeministInPink said:


> So, I've started calling Real Estate "Boo" as a bit of a pet name. I started doing it, sort of kidding around, because it feels a little urban and twenty-something silly. I had to explain to him what it meant, because I named my car Boo a long time ago, and he had never heard it before. But, surprise! He loves it when I call him Boo. Last weekend, something was pushing my buttons a bit in regards to my feelings of security in our relationship (it wasn't anything he had done, it was more of an abstract thing), and we were talking about it before falling asleep. We were spooning, and he squeezed me tight, and he said, "You don't have to worry. I'm your dude. I'm your boo. I'm not going anywhere." And I said to him last night, "You've really latched onto this Boo thing. I'm surprised. You really like it, don't you?" And he said, "I do! I really like it. But sometimes, I have to stop myself from saying, 'Hey, Yogi!' Or I might have to start calling you Cindy. That was Yogi Bear's girlfriend."
> 
> It was just really sweet.
> 
> A very good friend of his (a former roommate), who happens to share my birthday, is coming to town ON my birthday and staying with Real Estate for a few days. Usually, this means that I won't get to see him until his friend leaves town--that's how it's been since we've gotten together, whenever a friend visits. But this time is different. He's really excited for me to meet his friend, and is planning all kinds of stuff for us to do together: an escape room (including a few of my friends, and one or two of RE's friends whom I haven't met yet), a tree-tops adventure course, go-carting, and miniature golf. It seems like he's starting to being me into other parts of his life, whereas before it always felt like he kept things compartmentalized. This is a very good thing.


Sounds fantastic FIP. Much better than the uncertainty you were sharing several weeks back.


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## RandomDude

FK! Just found out my useless ass-kissing government pulled a Trumpie on working visas. For so many months been trying to convince my girlfriend to renew her visa, and get her retired dad to stay with one of her two brothers instead of her flying off. Now fair enough, she's the eldest, she has her obligations to her family, but I'm here  and I can't move, have my work my uni and my daughter. For ages she's struggled with the decision and now my government is making it SO HARD to get her visa, so it's obvious now what she's going to choose, because she has no choice!!!

You know I like Trumpie, the Trump effect brings everyone out of the closet! There's now racism rampant everywhere and I love it! Violence against kids and women too! Why I do I love it? Because I strongly believe it has to get worse before it gets better, and it encourages folks of my race to stop being so law abiding and respectful and start fighting back. Too long has everything been pushed under the rug, I knew there was so much racism but people weren't aware. They are now. But despite the benefits of Trumpism when my government kisses Trump ass no matter what he does I didn't expect **** like an isolationist policy to happen in homesoil which is now it's intruding into MY FKING LOVE LIFE.

And all this just after I find out to publish ANYTHING in my new field I have to get a degree for it, where-as in the U.S. you don't even have to, FKED UP down under law. FKING GOVERNMENT! And they wonder why our entertainment industry here is so limited! They already cut funding to everything but mining pffft! And now I'm going to be single again! After finally finding someone worthwhile, oh yeah of course she's worth it compared to the locals here BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SH-T ABOUT MONEY!!! I feel like they are trying to take away everything from me... 

*sigh* Maybe I'm just recovering from shock... anger... sadness... frustration... and stress all at once... FKING GOVERNMENT!!! BAH! FK YOU TURNBULL YOU FKING ****!! *sigh*

A bit better now...

/end vent


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## RandomDude

*sigh* Can't even FKING sponsor her myself, new requirements enforce "genuine skill shortage" and her role is not one of the listed.

She has no choice but to leave... unless we plan for partner visas, which have a de facto requirement. FK! I'm not ready for any such commitment yet!

And I got assignments pilling up with work drawing me back into the stressful life of my expanding business that has grown too large for me to manage comfortably >.<
I just want to die... now >.<


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## FeministInPink

You could marry her, RD! Then she could stay.

J/k 

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## FeministInPink

But don't lose hope, RD. You guys can still work this out.

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## RandomDude

Before this recent abolishment she had a decision to make, now it just forces her to make one. I can't make a long-term romantic commitment just to bypass the hurdle for her, even if she makes the decision she wants to stay.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Before this recent abolishment she had a decision to make, now it just forces her to make one. I can't make a long-term romantic commitment just to bypass the hurdle for her, even if she makes the decision she wants to stay.


J/k means just kidding! I wasn't serious, at all. I know where you're at right now, RD. I wouldn't suggest that you take such a big step right now.

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## RandomDude

Looks like I'll be single again I guess... *sigh*


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## FeministInPink

TheGoodGuy said:


> Sounds fantastic FIP. Much better than the uncertainty you were sharing several weeks back.


I am sure that the uncertainty will come up again, when he decides he needs to assert once again that he doesn't want a girlfriend or to get married again. (Funny thing about this, I have never once suggested that marriage is something I see in the future for us; I've never even once brought up the topic of marriage. I know how he feels about it. I don't feel the need to discuss it, because I'm happy the way things are for now.)

I think that my presence in his life, and his growing attachment to/feelings for me, are challenging the ideas he's clung to for a long time about his life and the future: that he would spend his life along, that he would never fall in love again, that he is better off alone. Before he met me, he had himself completely convinced of these so well that he accepted them as immutable fact.

This creates a lot of cognitive dissonance, and cognitive dissonance is really hard to deal with, and can only be ignored for so long. There are only two ways of resolving cognitive dissonance: either change your beliefs, or eliminate whatever is causing the cognitive dissonance in the first place (which would be me).

The longer we're together, the more attached he gets to me; the more attached he gets, the harder it will be for him to end the relationship. And I think that eventually he'll become more flexible about what he currently accepts as the absolute truth about his life.

He still may never want to get married, and that's ok. But eventually, he'll realize that he IS capable of loving again, and loving another person doesn't mean that you're destined to have your heart broken again.


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## RandomDude

Hell this stupid xenophobic withdrawal of working visas is now affecting MY FKING BUSINESS - 650 roles to 200, and guess what? In hospitality, WE NEED IMMIGRANTS, who else is going to translate and communicate with folks who struggle with English? How the FK am I going to make my customers feel at home when my country is a xenophobic racist paradise where everyone scorns any other fking language but English?! Just hire the locals you say? So many fking locals despite their background lose their native tongue robbed from them from a culture that scorns it from the very beginning since they were children. You going to say to a tourist "speak english?" FK YOU!

Hell I'm so pissed off right now, my girlfriend being fking deported and you know what else? I am so filled with hate right now I haven't felt like this since my ex-wife got pregnant, I had to marry her out of circumstance, and now I'm tempted to fking offer my girlfriend a partner visa just to say FK YOU to my FKED UP GOVERNMENT... TWO MARRIAGES - ONE POTENTIAL - BOTH THE SAME STORY - FOR THE FKING WRONG REASONS!!! AGAIN! Not to mention this is all reminding me of the fking xenophobic sh-t I had to deal with just because ex-wife looked fking "white" and behind our backs insult my daughter before she was even fking born because OMFG I ain't a white **** and I'm stealing "your" women! FK reminds me of those FKING COWARDS THROWING A BEER BOTTLE AT MY DAUGHTER BY A DRIVE BY JUST BECAUSE I WAS WITH MY "WHITE" LOOKING WIFE.

NOW THIS?! THE MAJORITY OF MY STAFF ARE WHITE FKING AUSSIES AND OH SH-T I AINT WHITE SO I MUST BE STEALING FKING JOBS, I'M CREATING JOBS YOU FKING USELESS FKING DOLE BLUDGERS! FK! FK I'm so FKING ANGRY...

*sigh*

Sorry guys I really need this out, don't mind me... just too much, happening all at once >.<

/end vent


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## tripad

Rd

Tough call .


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## tripad

Fip

Smile on my face to read things are going well for you with real estate . I sense peace n contentment in your writing .

I am no where near men to even sniff out a good or single one .


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## RandomDude

Going ahead with prospective marriage visa, FK the government! Lodging early since it'll take a year to process if not more. Alot can happen in a year and I may not even be able to handle it when she gets deported a few months, but going to try everything. Funny thing really, at first she was wishy washy with her decision and now that it's more difficult she decides she actually chooses me. Maybe that's a good thing?

Meh going to an immigration agent tomorrow with her, find our options.


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## RandomDude

$7000 application fee!!!!

Fk... that's 2 years membership with a matchmaking agency, price of a small car, almost the price of a fking hang glider!!!

Government extorting couples for money WTF

Edit: 12 months waiting period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not even guaranteed... forget it, not letting them profit from this. Will find another way!


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## FeministInPink

RD, all of that just sucks. A lot people making these decisions, in both your country and mine, simply don't understand just how much our economies depend upon the undocumented individuals and foreign labor.

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## RandomDude

Hell our PM declared Australia an "immigration nation" in the same speech that he scraps the visas and says "Australia first", contradicting himself trying to be politically correct and taking a page from Trump who he has been kissing ass. Even our immigration minister declared second and third generation immigrants a mistake that their parents/grandparents were allowed to immigrate in the first place. WTF?! I feel so powerless in this stupidity and racism and that infuriates me!

I can't even marry her to keep her here! Even if I pay the 7K she still has to go back and wait a year hoping it even gets approved. We're looking at the possibility she can commence her masters and get her a student visa grant at the moment... there's still hope. I'd hate to dump her because of my FKED UP GOVERNMENT! In fact, I don't think I can. All this is just giving me a reason to marry her to stick a finger up at the government and all the fkwits that support this!


----------



## RandomDude

All this sh-t is bringing out the monster in me, I'm afraid of even going out because if just ONE person says the wrong thing IM GONNA FKING BREAK HIM AND RIP HIS FKING THROAT OUT!!!!

FK IM STILL SO FKING ANGRY!!!! THIS IS ALL FKING BULLSH-T!!!!!


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## RandomDude

*calmer now*

Girlfriend applying for student visa, pretty much the best option. Masters degree. Not so mad anymore.

*applies zen*


----------



## tripad

I decided to give the guy who lend me his handphone a text to ask him out for a coffee to thank him for the handphone . Although i am not physically attracted to him , he is really quite a nice man and that is important . No harm having a nice man as a friend . So , we are meeting up . Finally , meeting up with a man , although not specifically for a date .


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## tripad

Getting too peaceful being alone .


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## FeministInPink

RD, you killed the thread! j/k 

So, BIG news! OK, so not really big, but kind of a BFD for Real Estate. A few months ago, he introduced me to a friend of his who lives in Kenya and was in town visiting. That was a really big deal. The only friend (other than a mutual friend we already had) that I met in almost an entire year of seeing each other, so that was a pretty big step for him. He likes to keep his life compartmentalized. Family. Work. Vanilla friends. Kinky friends. These boxes Do. Not. Intersect. Or. Overlap. We share our circle of kinky friends, but I, as a member of the kinky compartment, have never passed over into the other compartments, until meeting this friend from Kenya a few months ago. And then I went right back into that compartment.

Most of his local friends are this group of people that he plays trivia with every Tuesday night. I know of them, because he talks about them, and I know what they look like because of Facebook. After a year, still never met them. And I understand why. RE is very private about his private life... and he didn't want to introduce me to his friends, because he has been operating under the assumption (or fear) that this could end at any time. I've always known that introducing me to his friends would be a really big step, because that would mean that he's actually thinking of us in the long-term, or at least the possibility of it, that our relationship might actually be real, that he might actually be investing me (and us) emotionally. The last woman they've known as his romantic partner was his ex-wife. That's a big step for him, to go "public" with a relationship, especially since he's been telling them all for years that he's never going to get in another relationship, have a girlfriend, or get married again. For him to introduce me to his friends means that he has to eat his words and swallow his pride, and he is a VERY stubborn man So I never pushed it. I never bugged him about it, or asked to meet his friends, even though he's met my friends AGES ago. 

Well... Saturday night, I met all of them, or almost all of them! One of his teammates had a birthday party, and I went as his plus-one, and everyone was surprised that RE brought a date. They, of course, (the women, anyway) peppered me with questions, not grilling me but genuinely wanting to get to know me, because they're happy to see RE with someone, and _happy_ with someone. The women scolded/teased him for waiting so long to introduce me, and the guys said that he should bring me to trivia. They also teased him about robbing the cradle, since I'm so much younger than all the rest of them. RE is apparently the youngest of their group at 48, and I'm 11 years younger than him. He in turn teased me on the way home, that I could have said "a little while" when they asked how long we'd been dating, and that I needed to learn to be a little more vague, but he actually didn't mind, and was happy they all took to me and liked me so much. 

In other news... he is moving back into one of his condos this July (the condo is currently rented out). In the last two weeks, he has mentioned no less than three times, "We'll have much more space in my condo. You'll be able to leave stuff there. You should leave some of your stuff, so you don't have to carry it back and forth." This from the man who, six months ago, would not allow me to even leave behind a HAIR CLIP in his apartment overnight.

We are moving forward, albeit excruciatingly slow. You are all invited to the wedding in 2027, LOL


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> RD, you killed the thread! j/k
> 
> So, BIG news! OK, so not really big, but kind of a BFD for Real Estate. A few months ago, he introduced me to a friend of his who lives in Kenya and was in town visiting. That was a really big deal. The only friend (other than a mutual friend we already had) that I met in almost an entire year of seeing each other, so that was a pretty big step for him. He likes to keep his life compartmentalized. Family. Work. Vanilla friends. Kinky friends. These boxes Do. Not. Intersect. Or. Overlap. We share our circle of kinky friends, but I, as a member of the kinky compartment, have never passed over into the other compartments, until meeting this friend from Kenya a few months ago. And then I went right back into that compartment.
> 
> Most of his local friends are this group of people that he plays trivia with every Tuesday night. I know of them, because he talks about them, and I know what they look like because of Facebook. After a year, still never met them. And I understand why. RE is very private about his private life... and he didn't want to introduce me to his friends, because he has been operating under the assumption (or fear) that this could end at any time. I've always known that introducing me to his friends would be a really big step, because that would mean that he's actually thinking of us in the long-term, or at least the possibility of it, that our relationship might actually be real, that he might actually be investing me (and us) emotionally. The last woman they've known as his romantic partner was his ex-wife. That's a big step for him, to go "public" with a relationship, especially since he's been telling them all for years that he's never going to get in another relationship, have a girlfriend, or get married again. For him to introduce me to his friends means that he has to eat his words and swallow his pride, and he is a VERY stubborn man So I never pushed it. I never bugged him about it, or asked to meet his friends, even though he's met my friends AGES ago.
> 
> Well... Saturday night, I met all of them, or almost all of them! One of his teammates had a birthday party, and I went as his plus-one, and everyone was surprised that RE brought a date. They, of course, (the women, anyway) peppered me with questions, not grilling me but genuinely wanting to get to know me, because they're happy to see RE with someone, and _happy_ with someone. The women scolded/teased him for waiting so long to introduce me, and the guys said that he should bring me to trivia. They also teased him about robbing the cradle, since I'm so much younger than all the rest of them. RE is apparently the youngest of their group at 48, and I'm 11 years younger than him. He in turn teased me on the way home, that I could have said "a little while" when they asked how long we'd been dating, and that I needed to learn to be a little more vague, but he actually didn't mind, and was happy they all took to me and liked me so much.
> 
> In other news... he is moving back into one of his condos this July (the condo is currently rented out). In the last two weeks, he has mentioned no less than three times, "We'll have much more space in my condo. You'll be able to leave stuff there. You should leave some of your stuff, so you don't have to carry it back and forth." This from the man who, six months ago, would not allow me to even leave behind a HAIR CLIP in his apartment overnight.
> 
> We are moving forward, albeit excruciatingly slow. You are all invited to the wedding in 2027, LOL


I have to say I am impressed by your process. You never give up and your resolve is working. I have known for a long time that for me to ever get married again I would need to be with a woman with extreme patience and understanding. Your posts give me hope that one day I will find one. :grin2:


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> I have to say I am impressed by your process. You never give up and your resolve is working. I have known for a long time that for me to ever get married again I would need to be with a woman with extreme patience and understanding. Your posts give me hope that one day I will find one. :grin2:


Thanks. I am aware that I am a rare bird. To be frank, I would not be this patient with most men. But there is something exceptional about him that is worth it. And I think he sees the same in me.

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## FeministInPink

And I also mean to say, keep up hope. You will find your exceptional one as well.

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## RandomDude

Your relationship is sometimes like a mirror image of mine FIP, the way he's stubborn and compartmentalises etc, keeps you at arms length, insists on no-marriage etc...

Guess I should feel flattered that girlfriend is sticking with me, except now she's challenging me in that she's STILL wishy washy about the whole staying in the country thing, and makes me question why would she stay with me this long, persist with me, when we may not even have a future.


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## FeministInPink

Because a good man is hard to find, and when you do find one, you want to give it your all even though you know it might not last. Because it might last, and if it does, it will all be worth it. It's better to know that you gave it your best shot, even if it doesn't work out. 

She thinks you're worth it. And a woman who thinks you're worth it is a valuable, rare bird. 

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## RandomDude

Wouldn't say I'm a good man, I'm also like the opposite with uncertainty; cause the more the uncertainty for me, the more I withdraw emotionally.


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## FeministInPink

You can have flaws and triggers and emotional hang-ups and baggage, and still be a good man. All that stuff doesn't define you.


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## RandomDude

Thanks FIP, I disagree, but I'm glad you think so.


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## FeministInPink

I think I may just have a more positive outlook than you do 

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## hope4family

FeministInPink said:


> You can have flaws and triggers and emotional hang-ups and baggage, and still be a good man. All that stuff doesn't define you.


Ha, I can understand him wanting to agree to disagree. 

Sorry RD. I'm on FIP side on this one. Disagree all you want. Currently GF, and 2 counselors agree I have PTSD, possibly suffer from depression, poop ton of baggage (raising JR at age 5 on my own), grew up in a household of physical and emotional abuse, and I probably have more problems if you give me the time of day. But why stop there? Find my own thread and read through my current struggles of dealing with physical and emotional abuse as I raise a child solo. Like what FIP says, maybe you are a mighty good man and your current woman realizes that.


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## hope4family

On my own note. Still note married or engaged, so I think I am pretty qualified here. 

I am dating one women right now exclusively while we try and figure it out. I want the threads opinion on this line of thinking. 

If you date someone for a year. You ask yourself, I would marry them if they brought the topic up. Yet you find out they dont want marriage beyond what it is (a sexless relationship where neither of you live with each other.) Would you end it? Work on it to figure out why things are that way? Or just cut your losses and guy, because at this point you know all the bad, and certainly can't imagine sex and marriage will fix it. 

I want most people to understand I am high drive. Sex hasn't entered the equation because I am one of those dudes who fears being too fertile and being stuck with two baby mommy's. In terms of love languages, most of my love langues revolves around physical touch so I am hella jaded right now and not a good person to ask what success looks like as I would say, not sure, not sure at all.


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## GuyInColorado

No sex after a year of dating? That's a friend, not a lover. Move on and get laid. This is nothing close to marriage material. She's like a sister.

If you aren't swapping fluids after a month, then it's not going to work long term. You both should be ready to rip each other's clothes off after the second date. If not, the chemistry just isn't there or one or both of you has no sex drive. Have you two talked about this?? Are you both introverts and not sure how to bring this up? Do you two drink booze???


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## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> On my own note. Still note married or engaged, so I think I am pretty qualified here.
> 
> I am dating one women right now exclusively while we try and figure it out. I want the threads opinion on this line of thinking.
> 
> If you date someone for a year. You ask yourself, I would marry them if they brought the topic up. Yet you find out they dont want marriage beyond what it is (a sexless relationship where neither of you live with each other.) Would you end it? Work on it to figure out why things are that way? Or just cut your losses and guy, because at this point you know all the bad, and certainly can't imagine sex and marriage will fix it.
> 
> I want most people to understand I am high drive. Sex hasn't entered the equation because I am one of those dudes who fears being too fertile and being stuck with two baby mommy's. In terms of love languages, most of my love langues revolves around physical touch so I am hella jaded right now and not a good person to ask what success looks like as I would say, not sure, not sure at all.


I have to agree with @GuyInColorado. A relationship without sex is just a friendship. That only works for people who are asexual, and you are not that. Limiting yourself to a sexless relationship will make you miserable. Don't punish yourself this way.

If you're worried about pregnancy, and you don't want any more kids, get yourself snipped and have a real relationship.



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## Bananapeel

H4F - I don't understand how it can be called dating if you aren't having sex after a year. If you are that worried about pregnancy have her use birth control and you also use a condom. I'd personally have ended that relationship as soon as I realized it was not going to get physical.


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## 3Xnocharm

hope4family said:


> On my own note. Still note married or engaged, so I think I am pretty qualified here.
> 
> I am dating one women right now exclusively while we try and figure it out. I want the threads opinion on this line of thinking.
> 
> If you date someone for a year. You ask yourself, I would marry them if they brought the topic up. Yet you find out they dont want marriage beyond what it is (a sexless relationship where neither of you live with each other.) Would you end it? Work on it to figure out why things are that way? Or just cut your losses and guy, because at this point you know all the bad, and certainly can't imagine sex and marriage will fix it.
> 
> I want most people to understand I am high drive. Sex hasn't entered the equation because I am one of those dudes who fears being too fertile and being stuck with two baby mommy's. In terms of love languages, most of my love langues revolves around physical touch so I am hella jaded right now and not a good person to ask what success looks like as I would say, not sure, not sure at all.


it it sounds like your GF person is not interested in sex at all. Why would you subject yourself to that, knowing what your own drive is? She wants a friend. Is that really good enough for you?? I think you deserve more.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> it it sounds like your GF person is not interested in sex at all. Why would you subject yourself to that, knowing what your own drive is? She wants a friend. Is that really good enough for you?? I think you deserve more.


:iagree:

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## FeministInPink

Real Estate just called me to tell me that he saw a woman in his neighborhood walking a pet pig, and he couldn't wait until tonight to tell me about it. LOL.


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## bkyln309

Just wanted to pop in and say hi. Work has been so busy, I have had no time to do anything but work. Older Man is still around.


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## FeministInPink

Real Estate just texted me. Flower's brother Benji (not from the same litter, but they were adopted as pups at the same time), who RE's XW took in the divorce (and he got Flower), just passed away. (RE is still friends with his XW's sister, who is Flower's groomer and who will watch her sometimes when RE has to go out of town.)

I'm sure this drives home the point, that Flower doesn't have a lot of time left, a little more than he would like right now.


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## Down_And_Out

I read on the 1st page that it is okay for people who aren't single to post here as well. I am not "Legally" single but I have been single for about a year and 4 months now. I have just been too much of baby to file. I will be filing soon though. I have been "hanging out" with a girl that use to work with me. I wouldn't call it a date because she was dating someone else as the time. I think she see's me as a male friend. We've gone to the bar a few times, couple restaurants some I've fronted the bill and some we've split.. but the majority of the time we go to her place. We drink and watch either youtube or Netflix. I have not kissed this girl and we have not had any sexual experiences. I think she "does" like me but I'm very hesitant. Shes got a good job, looks amazing, her own place and takes care of herself. She's 9 years younger than me but calls herself grandma because she doesn't like staying out too late and enjoys going to bed early. I guess the reason why I've been hesitant is because I'm not sure I'm ready for a relationship... I am however severely suffering from some sexual frustration. This girl is too nice for me to put her in that type of situation. So I'm not making any moves. It is fun to just enjoy a beautiful girls company though...


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## Down_And_Out

We talk a lot about past relationships... she gives me advise and I give her advise. I give great advise.. I just cant take my own. She just broke it off with a guy she's been dating for a year and a half. Our conversations can get rather "exotic" ... but I never peruse. I think I would have to get some major counseling before I start really dating...


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## FeministInPink

@Down_And_Out I like to advise people not to actually date until the divorce is final, or at least until they have filed for divorce. I found that, while I thought I was ready before the divorce was final, that final closure was actually every emotional for me. I started dating 9 mos after my divorce was finalize, and BOY was it rocky. I wasn't close to ready. 

That being said, everyone is different, and you should go at your own pace.

Even though you're not technically dating this woman, it's good for you to have that interaction with a woman as a single man. When you DO start dating, I think this experience with her will help. Just enjoy the company of a beautiful woman for now, and reclaim yourself. 

Welcome to the Singles of TAM.

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## ne9907

hi all

How was your coffee date @tripad

I am glad to see things are going well @FeministInPink
@hope4family I am very curious to read more about your girlfriend

On my part, I have been busy. This guy that I am seeing is the same loser friend I spoke about back in December. We are growing so close together. It is uncanny and scary. Most times when I am with him, I feel as if we have been together before (another life) and we will be together again in the future. 

His voice, the length of his arms, the way his rough hands feel against my skin, everything is so familiar... Like I have always had his presence with me. 
Which in turn, scares the **** out of me....

Last Friday, I drank a bit more wine than I should have. Apparently I told him how I wanted to have a child.
I cant have children so biological children have always been a painful subject for me. 
Well on Saturday he said he would like to try to have a child together. I explained how I cant have children.... long story short. He wants us to see a fertility doctor because he would like to have a child with me. I don't want to put myself through that physical and emotional agony. Plus, I don't know him well enough. 
If I were to get pregnant, I would totally be able to provide for the baby by myself. 

I am just happy when we are together. I am very happy. He might not be perfect, or rich, or extraordinary but he fulfills my life in so many other ways.


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## Wolf1974

Was thinking of doing a surprise week getaway in October with the GF. We have done Mexico and love it. Anyone have any other suggestions? Jamaica? Dominican Republic?

I worry about hurricanes that time of year


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## FeministInPink

I've only done Mexico, but hope to try some other places in the Caribbean in the coming years. Real Estate wants to take me to Hedonism II.

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I've only done Mexico, but hope to try some other places in the Caribbean in the coming years. Real Estate wants to take me to Hedonism II.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Jamaica! Ya Mon!!

Sorry… Meant to reply to the post before this one. However, while we're on the subject, isn't one of the hedonism resorts in Jamaica?


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## Elizabeth001

The place I go to has a "clothing optional" very private beach. It's my favorite place on the whole wide world. Nothing "kinky" going on (unless I missed something)...Just total relaxation… And great snorkeling! Hahaaa!

Had to edit. iPhone doesn't translate Jamarican. 

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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> I've only done Mexico, but hope to try some other places in the Caribbean in the coming years. Real Estate wants to take me to Hedonism II.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That's Jamaica isn't it? High catering to swingers. Is that a lifestyle you both are into?

I think my GF might like that place as well


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Jamaica! Ya Mon!!
> 
> Sorry… Meant to reply to the post before this one. However, while we're on the subject, isn't one of the hedonism resorts in Jamaica?


Yes, Hedonism II is in Jamaica. That's why I mentioned it 



Elizabeth001 said:


> The place I go to has a "clothing optional" very private beach. It's my favorite place on the whole wide world. Nothing "kinky" going on (unless I missed something)...Just total relaxation… And great snorkeling! Hahaaa!
> 
> Had to edit. iPhone doesn't translate Jamarican.


Hedonism is clothing optional AND kinky!



Wolf1974 said:


> That's Jamaica isn't it? High catering to swingers. Is that a lifestyle you both are into?
> 
> I think my GF might like that place as well


Yes, in Jamaica. They are Lifestyle friendly, but it's not a requirement. There's other kinky stuff... they have a playroom that has a few pieces of dungeon furniture, from what I can tell.

Real Estate has said he might be interested in trying swinging, eventually. I'm not interested in it, and he is aware, and is OK with that. For now, anyway. I think he has a mild curiosity, but it isn't something that he needs and over which would be willing to end our relationship. He also knows that if he tries to push me on this, that would be the end for me. I'm open to an awful lot, but I've set up firm, clear boundaries. I actually think his interest in swinging is more about my pleasure than anything else, to see another man please me.

It's a fantasy he has, but I think it's one of those fantasies that is better not acted on. It's hot in his head, but I don't think that it would be quite as hot IRL. His XW cheated on him (they did NOT swing), and I think putting that fantasy into action would trigger him badly, and could potentially destroy our relationship. So there is no way I'm going there. And I don't want to, anyway.


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## RandomDude

Had a fight with cuddlebunny, seriously I'm beginning to have enough of her indecisiveness, for months now she's kept me concerned about our future, saying that her family needs her and then at the same time she wants to be with me. She can make arrangements for her dad if she wants to but she doesn't seem to want to. It's all this crap that landed us in this visa sh-t to begin with, bc she didn't know if she wanted to continue working so they didn't sponsor her with the visa and now the working visa is pulled she has no choice but to study to stay in the country. And yet, nothing. Always changing the subject refusing to deal with it, happy to live in ignorance at the impending doom of our relationship when her visa expires and she gets deported. She accused me of pressuring her, perhaps I am, but what am I to do? All I want is the same level of commitment I've given her to stick together. So ok, told her FINE, not going to pressure her anymore, but for her not to expect my commitment anymore.

Bleh

Oh well, never loved her anyway, but she proved one thing to me; no more relationships if I want my life drama free. The more experiences like this the more disgusted I am of relationships. I have ENOUGH to worry about with work and study and I'm so over this!


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## DayOne

FeministInPink said:


> Real Estate has said he might be interested in trying swinging, eventually. I'm not interested in it, and he is aware, and is OK with that. For now, anyway. I think he has a mild curiosity, but it isn't something that he needs and over which would be willing to end our relationship. He also knows that if he tries to push me on this, that would be the end for me. I'm open to an awful lot, but I've set up firm, clear boundaries. I actually think his interest in swinging is more about my pleasure than anything else, to see another man please me.
> 
> It's a fantasy he has, but I think it's one of those fantasies that is better not acted on. It's hot in his head, but I don't think that it would be quite as hot IRL. His XW cheated on him (they did NOT swing), and I think putting that fantasy into action would trigger him badly, and could potentially destroy our relationship. So there is no way I'm going there. And I don't want to, anyway.


I think you're being smart. We've seen enough threads here on TAM where sharing goes horribly wrong. Stick to your convictions, say no if/when he brings it up. 

Had a peek at the Hedonism II site. Looks like a lot of fun! Something Me and M'Lady would be interested in. >


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## FeministInPink

RD, have some compassion for cuddlebunny. This is very difficult for her, and she's likely under a lot of stress over this situation, and you pressuring her makes it even worse for her. You're giving her the exact opposite of what she needs from you right now.

She needs to figure this out for herself, and she needs your patience and support while she does that.

Instead, your behavior is going to end up pushing her away, and makes it more likely that she will choose to leave, rather than going through all the work to find a way to stay. And really, why should she--and how could you expect her to--go through all the work of getting to stay in the country, for a man who doesn't love her?

And if you don't love her, then why do you care so much?

You're being very selfish, RD.

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## RandomDude

It's been months! She's been wishy washy about this for so long and that's what landed us in this predicament in the first place aside from my fked up Trumpie-wannabe government. 

Meh it's too hard, probably better if she leaves. As you said, I'm selfish and I don't love her anyway. Not to mention she would have to commit years of her life doing something she doesn't even want to do just to stay in a country she's already skeptical about. Reminds me of that movie... what was it, "BIG" by Tom Hawks... "I have many reasons to go back and only one reason to stay"

Quite frankly I don't think it's fair for me to even ask for it, yet I do, because that's what I need from her for me to stick around. Distance is out of the question. From now to August? FWBs? Sure, but relationship? I need more than lip service to sustain it, I need a commitment to our future, and right now it's too hard to ask for it. Nah fk it, I'm ending it once she cools down, unless she's already made her decision then yay! Saves me the final blow.

Fking sucks that when I finally found someone who ticks my boxes and starts melting the outer layer of ice around me she just HAD to be a fking foreigner in a country that is all about "FK OFF WE'RE FULL"

I'm a father working full-time at the peak of my business as well as studying full-time in a completely different field that demands hours upon hours of very tedious and time-consuming work in my assignments (it's all about production, not exams) and I'm living off 4 cans of red bull per day and 2 hours sleep with noticable dementia and short-term memory loss affecting my performance when all the time I need to be at very best. It's too much. I can't deal with this ****!!!


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## hope4family

ne9907 said:


> hi all
> 
> How was your coffee date @tripad
> 
> I am glad to see things are going well @FeministInPink
> 
> @hope4family I am very curious to read more about your girlfriend.


Funny, the day I wrote that things changed positively 3 days later. There is still a lot to work on, but I have noticed an attitude and a language shift on her part. I will send you the details.


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## FeministInPink

hope4family said:


> Funny, the day I wrote that things changed positively 3 days later. There is still a lot to work on, but I have noticed an attitude and a language shift on her part. I will send you the details.


No, tell ALL of us! We want to know!

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## RandomDude

Cuddlebunny and I are back to FWB status, rather amiable split until August when we go our seperate ways.


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## RandomDude

Correction: Casual relationship, think it's a little more than FWBs...


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## sosotte

Hi everyone! I hope you're all doing great. I don't post much but read regularly and love to hear from you all. Just a quick update on my side. The pregnancy is going well, I'm now at 5 months and really enjoying every minute. The father has said a word to me in more than 3 months but I'm getting used to the idea of going this alone. I'm a survivor  anyway I do feel very lonely and spend hours alone and wish I could have someone special in my life and for the baby but well... I'm not dating anyone. I chat with guys on tinder sometimes but it doesn't seem to go anywhere and I also secretly think they may be weird to chat with a girl who is pregnant so that's that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

sosotte said:


> Hi everyone! I hope you're all doing great. I don't post much but read regularly and love to hear from you all. Just a quick update on my side. The pregnancy is going well, I'm now at 5 months and really enjoying every minute. The father has said a word to me in more than 3 months but I'm getting used to the idea of going this alone. I'm a survivor  anyway I do feel very lonely and spend hours alone and wish I could have someone special in my life and for the baby but well... I'm not dating anyone. I chat with guys on tinder sometimes but it doesn't seem to go anywhere and I also secretly think they may be weird to chat with a girl who is pregnant so that's that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I was in your shoes, I think I would take this time to build my "village." If the dad's not going to be involved, you're going to want some other people in your corner!


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## Herschel

Here is an update on me and if anyone cares about my new single life. Been doing ok on the dating apps, dated one woman for a month (I shut my stuff down, not so sure about her). She wigged out and while she wanted to date, it felt that maybe she was looking at a new guy on the side or maybe she had a quick fling with her ex-husband, so I bailed. It bummed me cause I probably got too deep too quickly. So, she seemed upset I was cutting the cord, but whatever. She visited my profile like a day or two later and I stupidly did the same. We played tag for like a week or two, but really, that does no good to help get over someone, so I stopped. 

Anyway, I started talking to someone else and things kicked off well enough and we had made plans for tonight about a week and a half ago, but she seemed like she back burnered me and I'll have none of that. So, this week I got messaged by a lovely younger woman with no kids and maybe what I'd consider out of my lane if I was a single guy her age. But whatever, you never know. I am always honest and I tell her that I am soon to be twice divorced (she knew I had kids) and I am temporarily at my moms house. Doesn't seem to phase her. I am thinking she has herpes. Anyway, the girl from a month ago, out of the blue decided to play the tag game again and I told her to stop. The girl who put me on the back burner texted me today to confirm our date.

So, that brings me here right now. I hate talking to multiple women at once when you are at the point of meeting and possibly dating. I know that's the game, but it's uncomfortable to me. I guess I have like 2 or 3 other people I am in various stages of talking to, and dating is really messed up these days. Sometimes I feel like meh, nobody wants this and other days it's overload. My history and living situation doesn't seem to be an issue for anyone who wants to get that far, but maybe cause I'm honest about it and I'm a good guy and all? I don't know. I do know that the younger woman would probably like to have kids and settle down, which, in concept is viable, but is that what I really want? Especially if she has the herp (not confirmed, but really, what is she doing going after me in my situation)?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

What in the world leads you to think the younger woman has herpes? I am with you about not liking to talk to multiple people. I dont usually do that, makes me uncomfortable. I have always been a serial monogamist, lol.


----------



## TooNice

Goodness, so much to catch up on here - so little time!

I'm doing well...life has been crazy busy, but mostly good. Still not back to running, and dealing with a couple of health issues before I'll really try to get back. Shouldn't be anything too serious, but I am tired of being sidelined. I can run three miles mostly ok, but I want to train for a fall marathon, and need to start soon!

The boyfriend and I are doing well. We are an interesting balance. He stresses about something, and I counter it with logic and reason, and perspective - lol. He really is a bit of a pessimist, and I am Susie freaking Sunshine most of the time. Last night I threatened to douse him with essential oils and force him to meditate to turn his day around.  He has a great sense of humor, and can make me laugh - I love that. 

He has time off this weekend, something that is a rare thing. I am so excited about spending time together. He makes me feel like I am the only girl in the room sometimes, and I am learning how to feel comfortable with that. After so many years of being made to feel invisible, it is remarkable to be on the other end of the spectrum. 

Hope you are all enjoying the start of the weekend!


----------



## farsidejunky

Herschel said:


> Here is an update on me and if anyone cares about my new single life. Been doing ok on the dating apps, dated one woman for a month (I shut my stuff down, not so sure about her). She wigged out and while she wanted to date, it felt that maybe she was looking at a new guy on the side or maybe she had a quick fling with her ex-husband, so I bailed. It bummed me cause I probably got too deep too quickly. So, she seemed upset I was cutting the cord, but whatever. She visited my profile like a day or two later and I stupidly did the same. We played tag for like a week or two, but really, that does no good to help get over someone, so I stopped.
> 
> Anyway, I started talking to someone else and things kicked off well enough and we had made plans for tonight about a week and a half ago, but she seemed like she back burnered me and I'll have none of that. So, this week I got messaged by a lovely younger woman with no kids and maybe what I'd consider out of my lane if I was a single guy her age. But whatever, you never know. I am always honest and I tell her that I am soon to be twice divorced (she knew I had kids) and I am temporarily at my moms house. Doesn't seem to phase her. I am thinking she has herpes. Anyway, the girl from a month ago, out of the blue decided to play the tag game again and I told her to stop. The girl who put me on the back burner texted me today to confirm our date.
> 
> So, that brings me here right now. I hate talking to multiple women at once when you are at the point of meeting and possibly dating. I know that's the game, but it's uncomfortable to me. I guess I have like 2 or 3 other people I am in various stages of talking to, and dating is really messed up these days. Sometimes I feel like meh, nobody wants this and other days it's overload. My history and living situation doesn't seem to be an issue for anyone who wants to get that far, but maybe cause I'm honest about it and I'm a good guy and all? I don't know. I do know that the younger woman would probably like to have kids and settle down, which, in concept is viable, but is that what I really want? Especially if she has the herp (not confirmed, but really, what is she doing going after me in my situation)?


Herschel...

Man, just roll with it. All of it. 

The herp...lol. 

Dude, you worry about way too much stuff. Some young hottie wants to go on a date with you? Roll with it. Maybe she will give you a memorable night. 

In my experience, enjoy this phase while it lasts. In my dating days between my ex and current wife, it was always binge and purge. I would go from having 2 or 3 interested in me to none for a few months.

I would much rather try and manage casual dating with several women then manage disappointment at having no casual dates.

Lighten up, Francis!!!


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## jld

Herschel said:


> I am always honest and I tell her that I am soon to be twice divorced (she knew I had kids) and I am temporarily at my moms house. Doesn't seem to phase her. I am thinking she has herpes.


You are hilarious, Herschel.


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## Herschel

farsidejunky said:


> Herschel...
> 
> Man, just roll with it. All of it.
> 
> The herp...lol.
> 
> Dude, you worry about way too much stuff. Some young hottie wants to go on a date with you? Roll with it. Maybe she will give you a memorable night.
> 
> In my experience, enjoy this phase while it lasts. In my dating days between my ex and current wife, it was always binge and purge. I would go from having 2 or 3 interested in me to none for a few months.
> 
> I would much rather try and manage casual dating with several women then manage disappointment at having no casual dates.
> 
> Lighten up, Francis!!!


You know I am Jewish, so there is a certain level of neuroticism innate in my personality. I think it is mostly cause I hate dating, but I hear you.


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## RandomDude

Argh... what have I done... so since GF and I decided on a casual relationship since its going to be short term, I caught up with a stunner I used to date before I found current GF, a 10/10. Don't know what happened cause she dropped to an 8, still hot but looks different. Yet now she won't leave me alone. Maybe I should have waited till GF and I broke up, not sure if I have the time for 2 women + daughter + work + studies.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Argh... what have I done... so since GF and I decided on a casual relationship since its going to be short term, I caught up with a stunner I used to date before I found current GF, a 10/10. Don't know what happened cause she dropped to an 8, still hot but looks different. Yet now she won't leave me alone. Maybe I should have waited till GF and I broke up, not sure if I have the time for 2 women + daughter + work + studies.


She looks different to you because you are emotionally attached to GF. That attachment makes other women less attractive (even though they remain attractive in general).

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Bananapeel

Herschel said:


> I am thinking she has herpes.


Can't your Savta's homemade chicken soup cure that? I heard it cures everything. :grin2:


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## Celtic

I guess this is my home now! I moved into my new apartment this weekend, the first time living alone in the USA but compared to park benches in Tibet and old tents in Afghanistan this should be simple enough. Still feels strange to be starting my life anew at this age but I've learned to roll with the punches over the years and there is no use looking back at the past. I did turn the Celtic charm on with the estate agent; maybe it was my accent or the fact that I was feeling good about myself but we flirted outrageously and we're going out for dinner on Wednesday. Not looking for anything serious at this stage (and she's fine with that) but I just fancied a return to normal social behaviour and meeting new company. 

Now I just need to make a list of all the little furnishings I need for the place so I'm not living out of boxes and eating off paper plates for another week.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> She looks different to you because you are emotionally attached to GF. That attachment makes other women less attractive (even though they remain attractive in general).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Emotionally attached? Me? Never! :surprise:


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Emotionally attached? Me? Never! :surprise:


You are, you just don't want to admit it. It's why you're getting so worked up over this situation about her having to leave and having to make a choice, etc. If you weren't attached, you wouldn't care so much.


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## Herschel

3Xnocharm said:


> What in the world leads you to think the younger woman has herpes? I am with you about not liking to talk to multiple people. I dont usually do that, makes me uncomfortable. I have always been a serial monogamist, lol.


Cause she is interested in me...it was self-deprecating humor.


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## Herschel

Bananapeel said:


> Can't your Savta's homemade chicken soup cure that? I heard it cures everything. :grin2:


I actually have never heard of Savta before. I always used Bubbie. Good on you.

However, I have an inside advantage being a Jew as that's what she wants. Assuming everything else is good, would I want to start all over with another family?


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## Bananapeel

@Herschel - is she a shiksa or MOT (member of the tribe)? If she's MOT, just be careful or she'll be planning the wedding by the end of the week. Of course, you can throw her off by disagreeing with her about whether matzo balls should be sinkers or floaters, and insist she change to maintain shalom bayit....


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## Herschel

Bananapeel said:


> @Herschel - is she a shiksa or MOT (member of the tribe)? If she's MOT, just be careful or she'll be planning the wedding by the end of the week. Of course, you can throw her off by disagreeing with her about whether matzo balls should be sinkers or floaters, and insist she change to maintain shalom bayit....


She is a MOT. I think that is what gives me an inside advantage. I don't think she is looking to get married at the end of the week, but I did consider having more kids. It's a little different when it's with someone who already has a kid versus someone who has never...


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## Bananapeel

Well that explains her high initial attraction level for you. Take your time and enjoy getting to know her. Don't get trapped in thinking about the future yet.


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> You are, you just don't want to admit it. It's why you're getting so worked up over this situation about her having to leave and having to make a choice, etc. If you weren't attached, you wouldn't care so much.


Ok maybe a little


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Ok maybe a little


It's OK to have feelings, RD. Most people do.


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## RandomDude

On second thought... naaaaah, I'm just annoyed I have to replace a good companion and sex partner for yet another one. And I can't be bothered with the mating dance nowadays, I just want "horny horny, sex sex sex"... and then back to business. The thought of that changing due to circumstances beyond our control is quite frustrating! Bah!

Maybe I'm too frustrated with my short-term GF to go with the other girl, but too late, the ball's rolling with number 2, unexpectedly. I swear, if she bites despite my situation with number 1 something is wrong with her, she should be able to get any guy than bother to deal with my mess when I'm not quite single yet until GF departs. Quite frankly I don't think I want to do anything sexual with anyone else until then either.

Meh


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## hope4family

RandomDude said:


> On second thought... naaaaah, I'm just annoyed I have to replace a good companion and sex partner for yet another one. And I can't be bothered with the mating dance nowadays, I just want "horny horny, sex sex sex"... and then back to business. The thought of that changing due to circumstances beyond our control is quite frustrating! Bah!
> 
> Maybe I'm too frustrated with my short-term GF to go with the other girl, but too late, the ball's rolling with number 2, unexpectedly. I swear, if she bites despite my situation with number 1 something is wrong with her, she should be able to get any guy than bother to deal with my mess when I'm not quite single yet until GF departs. Quite frankly I don't think I want to do anything sexual with anyone else until then either.
> 
> Meh


Ironically, I could write this. 

What would I tell you looking into myself that I wouldn't tell myself (like you wouldn't tell yourself) only we know what that is. But we won't say it, because that breaks what we want to establish or be ourselves as men.


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## Melrose8888

Felt it was time to join in the fun on this forum…background story is in Private Members forum but I am a BS, ex had an affair with her boss, chucked her out (I have taken on family home), so did POSOMs wife, they rent separately and we are about to divorce any day now, 5 months since D-day. I have 2 small boys, 7 and 4 and co-parent, they stay with me 50% of the time. POSOM hasn’t met my kids yet, a stipulation in our mediation agreement, as I know he is a serial cheater and I hadn’t expected it to last but hey, what do I know… Next time ex asks, I will allow it.

I’ve got my life back on track, picking up forgotten recreational activities, seeing friends more, spending time alone to heal etc. and also have IC once a week.
I had a couple of dates end of Jan, this was far too soon but a good confidence boost at the time. Also surrounded myself with female friends at work, to bounce off / share my stories to get their thoughts – very useful in my healing.

Mid April, as a birthday treat, I decided to get back on to the dating apps for a little fun and had lots of matches. Messaged many women, arranged to go for drinks with 3 of them and one of those, let’s call her ‘Church’, after many messages and meeting up, I had an instant spark and attraction to. 
This was 4 weeks ago; we’ve had 3 drink / lunch dates, one dinner date at mine (we had lots of sex that night) and I’ve been to hers a couple of times (again, tons of sex). We’ve booked to fly to France, Friday for 2 nights, as it’s the only free weekend we both have for a while.

She has a 13yo son, his Dad left when she was 2 months pregnant, isn’t really on the scene at all and only first appeared last year. She has a great career, is financially stable and is a LOT of fun! She is, unintentionally, the complete opposite to my ex in every way; her looks, outlook on life, way she behaves, her interests etc. She has been dating on and off for 8 years, perhaps 3 or 4, not that serious guys. I have been totally up front and honest that, although I will be committed to her, I put my kids first, I value my independence (as does she, she has tons of friends) and want to take things steady. She lives a 90 minute drive from me, so understands that we may only see each other once a week at most.

We had a conversation about our past after the 2nd date, I was up front about my high sex drive and was pleased to match with her expectations (she might actually be higher than me!). We also discussed meeting kids (especially important given I don’t wish to be seen as hypocritical given I have my concerns about POSOM meeting mine). 

Everything seems great, she looks after me, cooks for me, comes up with great ideas, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, she is very thoughtful and chatty (perhaps too much but after years of poor communication with ex, this is very refreshing!).

So my concerns are that this is potentially moving too fast, given the short time frame since D-day?

She seems VERY keen, talking about plans for later this year, Christmas, next year, buying gifts for me, my boys, talks to her friends about me in context that this is ‘the one’.

None of this scares me, as such, I am happy to be honest / reiterate with her that although I am excited by this new relationship, I do need to take things slowly. I just don’t want to dampen her enthusiasm but at the same time, I can’t see how either of us would be anywhere near being sure that this is serious enough to make concrete plans?

As an example, we have even discussed living separately for years to come, so no concerns that she’d trying to move me in / in with me and in fairness, she likes the fact we have plan our time, given our busy lives and both agree commitment to our kids / what is best for them, is paramount.

I also don’t know what the correct answer is for her meeting the boys, I would have normally thought waiting 4-6 months, so you know it is long term. However, she is outstanding with children (part of her job) so I know they would benefit from her being around – gut feel is that, if this didn’t work out long term, I would regret ‘exposing’ my son’s to her and confusing them about relationships?

Bit of a dump of background but keen to get advice from those who have been in a similar situation!


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## FeministInPink

@Melrose8888 Welcome to the Singles of TAM!

It does sound like she's trying to move things quite fast. It's only been a month, and you've had a few dates, and you've obviously started sleeping together already. So you're a little high on all the sex and attention and being filled up on all the things that were neglected in your marriage. To be frank, I think the international trip to France might be a little too soon. And she's talking about Christmas next year and telling her friends that you're the one? I've had guys act like this with me, around the same time frame, and then POOF they all of a sudden drop my like a hot potato. She's in lust right now, and she is taking you along for the ride. 

Sure, maybe she's the right one for you, but all of this looks a little like love bombing to me. I would tread lightly with her, and put on the brakes. I would tell her to ixnay the talks about the future for now. You've just gotten divorced, you are re-building your life, and you're still trying to figure out what that looks like and what you want it to be. Tell her that you enjoy her company and spending time with her, but you're not ready to make any plans for the future [with her], whether it's looking at a few months or a few years from now, and see how she reacts to that. A healthy person will respect your needs. Take the time that you need. If it's meant to be with this woman, it will still happen, even if you slow down the pace.

DEFINITELY wait on introducing the kids. They are still processing all of this [the divorce], and they need time just as much as you do. Wait until you know this relationship has staying power, so at least 6 months.


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## Bananapeel

@Melrose8888 sounds like you are rebounding. I'd take your time and slow things down. 

I personally move very slowly and am upfront about that with the women I date. I tell them that I won't consider introducing them to my kids for at least 6-12 months. I also don't agree to exclusivity (I only date one woman at a time but agreeing to exclusivity is a big relationship step that shouldn't be done without a lot of thought) or talk about long term plans for at least 6-12 months. Please remember that whatever you do will be watched by your kids and will serve as a model for how they live their lives. The best bet is to take things slow and focus on your kids and reestablishing a healthy routine with them, then date on the side as a secondary priority as it fits into your life.


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## 3Xnocharm

I agree, you are rebounding. One month into dating is WAY too soon to be going out of the country together. Wow.


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## RandomDude

Melrose8888 said:


> Felt it was time to join in the fun on this forum…background story is in Private Members forum but I am a BS, ex had an affair with her boss, chucked her out (I have taken on family home), so did POSOMs wife, they rent separately and we are about to divorce any day now, 5 months since D-day. I have 2 small boys, 7 and 4 and co-parent, they stay with me 50% of the time. POSOM hasn’t met my kids yet, a stipulation in our mediation agreement, as I know he is a serial cheater and I hadn’t expected it to last but hey, what do I know… Next time ex asks, I will allow it.
> 
> I’ve got my life back on track, picking up forgotten recreational activities, seeing friends more, spending time alone to heal etc. and also have IC once a week.
> I had a couple of dates end of Jan, this was far too soon but a good confidence boost at the time. Also surrounded myself with female friends at work, to bounce off / share my stories to get their thoughts – very useful in my healing.
> 
> Mid April, as a birthday treat, I decided to get back on to the dating apps for a little fun and had lots of matches. Messaged many women, arranged to go for drinks with 3 of them and one of those, let’s call her ‘Church’, after many messages and meeting up, I had an instant spark and attraction to.
> This was 4 weeks ago; we’ve had 3 drink / lunch dates, one dinner date at mine (we had lots of sex that night) and I’ve been to hers a couple of times (again, tons of sex). We’ve booked to fly to France, Friday for 2 nights, as it’s the only free weekend we both have for a while.
> 
> She has a 13yo son, his Dad left when she was 2 months pregnant, isn’t really on the scene at all and only first appeared last year. She has a great career, is financially stable and is a LOT of fun! She is, unintentionally, the complete opposite to my ex in every way; her looks, outlook on life, way she behaves, her interests etc. She has been dating on and off for 8 years, perhaps 3 or 4, not that serious guys. I have been totally up front and honest that, although I will be committed to her, I put my kids first, I value my independence (as does she, she has tons of friends) and want to take things steady. She lives a 90 minute drive from me, so understands that we may only see each other once a week at most.
> 
> We had a conversation about our past after the 2nd date, I was up front about my high sex drive and was pleased to match with her expectations (she might actually be higher than me!). We also discussed meeting kids (especially important given I don’t wish to be seen as hypocritical given I have my concerns about POSOM meeting mine).
> 
> Everything seems great, she looks after me, cooks for me, comes up with great ideas, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, she is very thoughtful and chatty (perhaps too much but after years of poor communication with ex, this is very refreshing!).
> 
> So my concerns are that this is potentially moving too fast, given the short time frame since D-day?
> 
> She seems VERY keen, talking about plans for later this year, Christmas, next year, buying gifts for me, my boys, talks to her friends about me in context that this is ‘the one’.
> 
> None of this scares me, as such, I am happy to be honest / reiterate with her that although I am excited by this new relationship, I do need to take things slowly. I just don’t want to dampen her enthusiasm but at the same time, I can’t see how either of us would be anywhere near being sure that this is serious enough to make concrete plans?
> 
> As an example, we have even discussed living separately for years to come, so no concerns that she’d trying to move me in / in with me and in fairness, she likes the fact we have plan our time, given our busy lives and both agree commitment to our kids / what is best for them, is paramount.
> 
> I also don’t know what the correct answer is for her meeting the boys, I would have normally thought waiting 4-6 months, so you know it is long term. However, she is outstanding with children (part of her job) so I know they would benefit from her being around – gut feel is that, if this didn’t work out long term, I would regret ‘exposing’ my son’s to her and confusing them about relationships?
> 
> Bit of a dump of background but keen to get advice from those who have been in a similar situation!


Advice from Lt. Rasczak:


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## FeministInPink

@RandomDude We're not telling him to pass her up. We're saying that he might want to slow things down a bit.


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks all. She is naturally an enthusiastic person but I do see this getting a bit crazy too soon! I would only date one at a time, especially given I'm a BS.

The boys routine has been set for over 4 months now, they have settled well. I guess, given the ex has been focussing on her AP I do feel a little left behind, in the sense she didn't make sure all was ok with the boys (quite the opposite so not healthy for them at all) and often puts her relationship first.

France trip might seem big but it's an hour flight, her sisters place over there and just time to get away from things. I like her spontaneous ideas and she is challenging me which is what I've been missing.

I think another​ open and honest chat is in order. I think she will respond well but will be disappointed I'm not quite at the same pace as her.


----------



## FeministInPink

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks all. She is naturally an enthusiastic person but I do see this getting a bit crazy too soon! I would only date one at a time, especially given I'm a BS.
> 
> The boys routine has been set for over 4 months now, they have settled well. I guess, given the ex has been focussing on her AP I do feel a little left behind, in the sense she didn't make sure all was ok with the boys (quite the opposite so not healthy for them at all) and often puts her relationship first.
> 
> France trip might seem big but it's an hour flight, her sisters place over there and just time to get away from things. I like her spontaneous ideas and she is challenging me which is what I've been missing.
> 
> I think another​ open and honest chat is in order. I think she will respond well but will be disappointed I'm not quite at the same pace as her.


Oh, so you're in the UK, or somewhere else in EU? The majority of TAM posters are in the US or Canada, so I may have made an assumption there. But still, going on "holiday" together is a pretty bigg-ish step.


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## RandomDude

Have a strange pain in the kidneys lately, maybe too much energy drinks and coffee. Maybe my youthful health, stamina and "invincibility" is no longer with me


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## Red Sonja

RandomDude said:


> Have a strange pain in the kidneys lately, maybe too much energy drinks and coffee. Maybe my youthful health, stamina and "invincibility" is no longer with me


"Taurine and Ginseng. Taurine and ginseng are two more common ingredients in energy drinks that are generally harmless in small doses. ... MedlinePlus notes, however, that when combined with caffeine -- as it is in energy drinks -- it can cause high blood pressure, which can lead to kidney damage."

Have your blood pressure checked, pronto.


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Have a strange pain in the kidneys lately, maybe too much energy drinks and coffee. Maybe my youthful health, stamina and "invincibility" is no longer with me


Stress can also manifest itself in interesting physical ways...


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Stress can also manifest itself in interesting physical ways...


Or it could be a kidney stone.


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## CatJayBird

I had a date! Woot! Lol....lunch date...turned into happy hourish drinks, back to my place, lots of sex...just lust and orgasms...hahaha. Sent him on his way. Twas great!!


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## FeministInPink

CatJayBird said:


> I had a date! Woot! Lol....lunch date...turned into happy hourish drinks, back to my place, lots of sex...just lust and orgasms...hahaha. Sent him on his way. Twas great!!


You go, girl! That is the best part of post-divorce life... sex, sex, and more sex!


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## RandomDude

Strangely, I'm still alive, was sure I would be dead, was ready for it. Woke up, back to business, no more kidney pain. Maybe I'll go easy on those energy drinks though, my spirit animal is the cat, so I don't want to exhaust all my lives, only a few left I think >.<


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## RandomDude

Open marriage on TAM news? Wow... really? I mean, I'm all good with that... but on TAM?! Really? :surprise:

:rofl: Pretty bold! Though judging by the views most folks seem to have missed it...


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Open marriage on TAM news? Wow... really? I mean, I'm all good with that... but on TAM?! Really? :surprise:
> 
> :rofl: Pretty bold! Though judging by the views most folks seem to have missed it...


Oh, wow! I just saw that. It IS pretty surprising to see something like that here... 

I don't think that I could do an open marriage myself. My need for sexual fidelity is very strong, perhaps because touch is my primary love language. If my partner was giving that touch to someone else, I would be very hurt, because that is something that supposed to be just for me.


----------



## RandomDude

GF and I have kinda an open relationship now, in a sense that we are no longer committed, so nothing stopping us from seeing other people. Although it seems it's rather one-sided, she still loves me apparently but can not promise me a future as she can't commit to a student visa and her deportation coming up in a few months. At the same time she doesn't wish to be a burden on me and wishes to pay her own way - which is difficult as student visa restricts working hours and her role isn't so flexible. So... I'm single again, but with a great girl on the side.

Gotta admit, I've got it good in a way, but I'd rather she just commit so that I can commit again as I'm more interested in our future than a future with others. Meh


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## FeministInPink

RD, if you want her to commit, tell her! Tell her this.

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## RandomDude

I did; she can't - because she's torn you see. Her family, the country she loves (home country), and her working lifestyle on one hand... and then just me, a country she's not so fond of (my country), and a masters degree she doesn't want to study for on another. She's unable to make a decision, and seems to be planning to just leave yet give me lip service to keep me. Called her out on that, and hence our agreement now to rid each other of the expectations that comes with a committed relationship.


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## RandomDude

Well... what a turn of events, GF's hometown has now become a warzone and the entire province has been placed under martial law due to Islamic insurgency and rebellion. Last time the country was under martial law there was lots of detentions, raids, tortures and rapes. Now she has 1 reason to go back, and 2 reasons to stay. She reckons western media is over-exaggerating her government's past human rights abuses which is true to an extent and insists her town is close to the hotspot but still safe and that martial law under her president isn't like the dictator in the 70s.

I think I just lost about 10 IQ points talking with her -.-


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## 3Xnocharm

Sounds to me like she is dealing with a LOT of crap all at once, I feel bad for her. Try to be supportive of her, RD.


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## RandomDude

Me too, but I can not be supportive of any idea of her going back home, I'm going to need to talk to her dad. His daughter is safer here and he needs to convince her of that. I can't and I'm tired of arguing with her stubborn head.

I know she's going through alot right now but even she flies back to another city her president is already threatening to declare martial law across the whole country. There was a previous incident like this but no martial law was declared, now this declaration is starting to look like a casus belli for a dictatorship. Ok, her country, she knows it best, but all the signs are there from an outsider's point of view.

I don't know how to support her when I disagree with her the gravity of the situation over there. My tolerance for Islam is now also growing thin.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Sounds to me like she is dealing with a LOT of crap all at once, I feel bad for her. Try to be supportive of her, RD.


I agree. I also hope you can convince her to stay in Oz. Not sure if her dad will back you up, but I hope that he would.


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## RandomDude

He'd better, and I will be tough, because I'm not willing to risk her life on a bet. History proves what martial law leads to and likes to repeat itself. If he doesn't agree to tell her daughter to stay in Oz, then I would lose ALOT of respect for him. If my city is under martial law and my daughter has a chance to stay away you bet I'm going to put her where she's safest. Girlfriend is putting alot of faith in her president despite her countrymen in her home being robbed of their rights. Faith is dangerous, people get killed, innocents included with christians getting beheaded over there and civilians rounded up to be tortured, raped and killed by soldiers under martial law.

Sometimes I wonder if she's being defiant to me just to annoy me, and it shakens me to know that this is the type of spirit that will suffer the most under martial law if she goes back.


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## FeministInPink

How long has she been in Oz? I'm wondering if a) she's been gone for so long that she just doesn't realize how bad it's become, and depending on which country it is, b) she may not understand that it's not the same country she grew up in. Middle eastern countries aren't known for women's right, but some countries are better than others (you haven't said where she's from); if a formerly more liberal/moderate country reverts to sharia law or martial law, women's rights are the first thing to go, and it can become a VERY unsafe place to be female.


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## FeministInPink

(Is it ok for me to call Australia "Oz?" That's not offensive, is it? If it is, I will stop.)


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## RandomDude

It's kinda obvious if you google martial law on the news about now, and we traveled there earlier this year. She's correct that her city is safe compared to many other places and her family is smart to avoid the trouble spots, however she does not comprehend martial law as she never lived such conditions. She's catholic. The danger of her returning there now is martial law and abolishment of habeas corpus; the rights against illegal confinement. Martial law grants her government the power to arrest without warrant. This is why it's unsafe for her, even if the Muslim rebels are contained. The country has a whole history of human rights abuses under their dictator in the 70s.


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## FeministInPink

Oh, NO. I just googled as you said. She should definitely not go back right now. It is NOT SAFE. Even if you live in a "safe area" right now, things can change in a heartbeat, depending on what new policies their "president" chooses to enact.

Sorry, when you said Muslim, I assumed Middle East.


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## RandomDude

Exactly, and that's why I'm so concerned if she goes back. I don't trust the 60 days legal requirement considering her president is infamous for extra-judicial killings and as I mentioned they had a similar Muslim incident before but no martial law - yet this time why? It's too much like a casus belli just to establish a dictatorship. Not to mention the anti-rebel operation has been going on for years, and from what I've read martial law against terrorism is more "political" than "operational" when it comes to effectiveness. He has favored the police and military in his war on drugs regardless of due process, and now he's saying he will make martial law just like his tyrannical predecessor which he calls "very good". 

I sent her a quiz to see if she would survive martial law, I did the quiz myself which I failed 3 questions and the quiz responds to your answers with historical cases of abuse. On one question I failed where if my father was to call and meet up, I answered yes and got myself imprisoned and tortured for association with a "political enemy". She failed in regards to a search warrant where she demanded a search warrant if soldiers stormed her house and hence also got herself imprisoned and tortured. It was just a little quiz but I had hoped it showed her the realities of what martial law meant but yet she's defiant that her president would not abuse it and that her city remains safe which she takes alot of pride.

*sigh*

Is studying for masters really that bad?


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## FeministInPink

She may be a little naive in thinking it won't affect her.


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## RandomDude

We are opposites remember? She is the idealist, and I'm the realist. She's a balancing force in my life and that's another reason I want us to continue our committed relationship but that goes both ways. Regardless of her decision to stay in the country or not, this is simply not a good time to go back!


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## RandomDude

Muslim refugees now entering her dad's city as situation is escalating with muslims beheading innocents who can't recite their "shahada" lining up their heads on highways. Next thing you know you have suicide bombers and insurgents from these sympathisers infiltrating the military's front lines. Already in the hotspot there's arson being started behind the lines by sympathisers, yet they are allowing refugees through to catholic majority areas where they are tempted to kill even more "infidels"... disappointing! GF still being defiant at the situation, until I showed her, led her to FB photos of heads and gore, tolerance for Islam is now gone.


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## FeministInPink

Her attitude is confounding. I would be doing everything to stay away, and everything to get my family OUT.

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## RandomDude

Looks like I'll have to wait until a suicide bomb goes off in her dad's city before she (and her dad) gets convinced the situation is spiraling out of control! Bah! I haven't had the chance to have a word with him in private and it seems it's business as usual in her city despite martial law. The city is 2.5 hrs drive to the warzone! The media is avoiding the details of the siege and alot of details coming from eye witnesses on FB which the media says only what they see and not what they know. GF was shocked but insists her government will bring things under control. Right now it's waiting... and the clock is ticking on her visa at the same time! Bah!


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## RandomDude

She STILL wants to go back home WTF?! She's not even considering other cities in her home country!!! :banghead:

Even my spirited daughter is not THIS stubborn!!!!


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## ne9907

I think I am in love... well, I am in love

Problems: he is bipolar and has been annoying the crap out of me, he is on his manic state. I did not notice before because I am always busy.
He does not want to take medications because he has an addictive personality and was addicted before.

I am researching everything on bipolar disorder so I may be more comfortable

That is all


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## Elizabeth001

What's not to love? lol 
Good luck!


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> I think I am in love... well, I am in love
> 
> Problems: he is bipolar and has been annoying the crap out of me, he is on his manic state. I did not notice before because I am always busy.
> He does not want to take medications because he has an addictive personality and was addicted before.
> 
> I am researching everything on bipolar disorder so I may be more comfortable
> 
> That is all


Sometimes I question the whole "bipolar" label, don't we all have mood swings? Some more than others, like me, but I wouldn't consider myself bipolar, even though "experts" would probably think I am, along with PTSD, ASPD and psychopathy they labeled during my youth. Like I can be calm, bored, and low one minute, but something funny comes along and I'm all hypo for a while then someone pisses me off and I start putting them in painful holds just for the screams, but then I calm down... low again. Isn't that normal?


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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Sometimes I question the whole "bipolar" label, don't we all have mood swings? Some more than others, like me, but I wouldn't consider myself bipolar, even though "experts" would probably think I am, along with PTSD, ASPD and psychopathy they labeled during my youth. Like I can be calm, bored, and low one minute, but something funny comes along and I'm all hypo for a while then someone pisses me off and I start putting them in painful holds just for the screams, but then I calm down... low again. Isn't that normal?


That is not the definition of bipolar.

Sorry, but to put "experts" in quotes and imply that bipolar disorder is not a real disease, is insulting to those who deal with it. It's very real, and it is much more than just having "highs and lows".


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## RandomDude

I disagree with mental labels in general, probably because of my own experience with shrinks as well as experience with "bipolar" individuals, several intimate. I also say he should get off the meds.


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## Hope Shimmers

edited

ne9907, mental conditions are just as organic and real as any other physical condition. If your guy is diagnosed bipolar, he needs to be on meds. Meds for that condition are not addictive. Good luck ~


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## Uptown

ne9907 said:


> He is bipolar.... I am researching everything on bipolar disorder so I may be more comfortable.


NE, if he has been diagnosed as exhibiting bipolar disorder in the past year, there is about a 50% chance of his also exhibiting co-occurring full-blown BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. I therefore suggest that you learn the warning signs (i.e., symptoms) for both bipolar and BPD so you can spot any strong symptoms that occur.

If you're interested, I describe the major differences I've seen between the behaviors of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. If most of the BPD symptoms sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you if you will start your own thread and alert me about it. Take care, NE.


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## 2&out

Ne - I will offend people and say run - not walk - run. Unless you like and want frustration and drama as a way of life. It's probably my fault but 6 years into my first marriage something changed (I am a big believer in body chemistry being strong factor as I experienced/lived it and she was completely fine until then) and she became ill / bi-polar. She worked in the medical field and knew a lot about it but still was med non-compliant. She got worse and worse and became more and more angry and violent. She is in jail - again - right now.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> That is not the definition of bipolar.
> 
> Sorry, but to put "experts" in quotes and imply that bipolar disorder is not a real disease, is insulting to those who deal with it. It's very real, and it is much more than just having "highs and lows".


I agree. @RandomDude, your description doesn't even come close to what bipolar is. My best friend is bipolar, and I've watched her struggle with this for YEARS. Her condition has improved significantly since her diagnosis and the fact that she's worked with therapists for years to learn how to manage it. But is is still an ongoing struggle. She tried to commit suicide several times over the course of her life, before she was diagnosed, thankfully not successfully, and has been committed to a psych ward on more than one occasion (voluntarily). This is more than simple mood swings.

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## FeministInPink

2&out said:


> Ne - I will offend people and say run - not walk - run. Unless you like and want frustration and drama as a way of life. It's probably my fault but 6 years into my first marriage something changed (I am a big believer in body chemistry being strong factor as I experienced/lived it and she was completely fine until then) and she became ill / bi-polar. She worked in the medical field and knew a lot about it but still was med non-compliant. She got worse and worse and became more and more angry and violent. She is in jail - again - right now.


I agree. Even with my experiences with my BFF and seeing her improve, I've seen the dark side of it, too. I would NEVER (knowingly) get into a relationship with someone who is bipolar. 

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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I agree. @RandomDude, your description doesn't even come close to what bipolar is. My best friend is bipolar, and I've watched her struggle with this for YEARS. Her condition has improved significantly since her diagnosis and the fact that she's worked with therapists for years to learn how to manage it. But is is still an ongoing struggle. She tried to commit suicide several times over the course of her life, before she was diagnosed, thankfully not successfully, and has been committed to a psych ward on more than one occasion (voluntarily). This is more than simple mood swings.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Perhaps I used too simple a language to portray a point, regardless, please enlighten me:

http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/NLPs/OutcomeFactors.pdf

I also dated a pharmaceutical specialist in the past where I live who mentioned rather interesting realities of the processes of medicinal research before it is released into the public. None of which are bad, but the question remained with me is it actually enough what they do? That along with several other factors; such as personal experiences with untreated "schizos" and "bipolars", has formed my opinion.

I completely understand yours however, so we can agree to disagree. I'm currently only interested in debating Islam due to current circumstances with GF's family, so not really interested in arguing, just know I did not mean to attack anyone with my statement.


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## Hope Shimmers

I didn't mean to attack anyone either; just to point out that, if you are truly dealing with an accurately diagnosed person with bipolar disorder who isn't being treated, you will KNOW it. Because much of the time they won't be functional. It's hard to treat, too. Bipolar depression is different than typical depression, and treating it in the same way generally makes it worse. But it's hard to distinguish the two, especially in people who display bipolar depression first before the more obvious manic phase. 

And people with schizophrenia who aren't treated? You will know that too. Not much doubt about it.

Sometimes I just get triggered when people seem to have such definitive ideas about things in the medical field, but no real training. I don't know why that is. I don't have any training or skills in, say, electrical engineering, and I would never presume to make a statement indicating that I do. Just kind of odd to me.


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## RandomDude

Books are one thing, experiences are another, best is to combine the two, but neither are invalid.

I think I got triggered too, I don't agree with slapping labels on people. I don't go around calling my grandma "Mama Alzheimers", she's my grandma, I know her issues, but she's not a label.


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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> Books are one thing, experiences are another, best is to combine the two, but neither are invalid.


I didn't learn medicine from books.



RandomDude said:


> I think I got triggered too, I don't agree with slapping labels on people. I don't go around calling my grandma "Mama Alzheimers", she's my grandma, I know her issues, but she's not a label.


Not sure how recognizing someone as diagnosed with a disease is "slapping labels" on them. The conditions of the disease are relevant to be recognized. But I must have misunderstood you, because I thought you were saying you really didn't agree with BPD or schizophrenia as legitimate.

We can agree to disagree. Happy Islam debating!


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## RandomDude

*sigh* One of those things that you can either understand, or you don't I'm afraid


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## TooNice

Well, we are giving it a few days, but I think I just went through my first post-D break up. 

BF and I have had one thing hanging over us since we met - I intend to move far away in a few years - he is staying put. But we thought we could just do a casual but committed relationship with that on the back burner. 

Then the feels happened. Early on.

We have had other issues, too... and we communicate well, so we have been talking through things. This one came up again tonight, though. And we both acknowledged that it's something we both think about. A lot. We like each other a lot. He has even said he loves me. But this is not going to be easier the longer we stay together. He used the expression "rip off the bandage" tonight. We'd both rather do that, let it heal and be friends. He is a good human that I can't imagine not having in my life now that he is here.

We already have plans to meet for drinks later this week, but I think the next few days will be tough for both of us as we process this.


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice I'm sorry that you're going through this right now. However, I must say, based on posts here and in some other threads, as great as this man is, it sounds like the two of you have some major compatibility issues, and these would have caused much bigger problems down the road.

The first post-divorce relationship rarely lasts, from what I've seen here and read other places. It's more of a learning and growing experience. I think yours falls into the category. And when you meet someone who is a better fit for you (and you WILL meet someone who is a better fit), you will be in a better place and will be a better partner for this experience.

*hugs*

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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> *sigh* One of those things that you can either understand, or you don't I'm afraid


And even thought it's my area of expertise, you understand and yet I can't possibly get it?

Okay. 

Like I said before, time to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Hope Shimmers

TooNice said:


> Well, we are giving it a few days, but I think I just went through my first post-D break up.
> 
> BF and I have had one thing hanging over us since we met - I intend to move far away in a few years - he is staying put. But we thought we could just do a casual but committed relationship with that on the back burner.
> 
> Then the feels happened. Early on.
> 
> We have had other issues, too... and we communicate well, so we have been talking through things. This one came up again tonight, though. And we both acknowledged that it's something we both think about. A lot. We like each other a lot. He has even said he loves me. But this is not going to be easier the longer we stay together. He used the expression "rip off the bandage" tonight. We'd both rather do that, let it heal and be friends. He is a good human that I can't imagine not having in my life now that he is here.
> 
> We already have plans to meet for drinks later this week, but I think the next few days will be tough for both of us as we process this.


I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this 

I agree with FIP that the first real relationship after a divorce usually doesn't last.

It sounds like you two have mainly geographical issues. I'll be honest - if he were 'the one', I think you would have agreed to live on the North Pole with this man.


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## FeministInPink

Hope Shimmers said:


> I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this
> 
> I agree with FIP that the first real relationship after a divorce usually doesn't last.
> 
> It sounds like you two have mainly geographical issues. I'll be honest - if he were 'the one', I think you would have agreed to live on the North Pole with this man.


It wasn't just a geographical mismatch. There was a big sexual mismatch, too ( @TooNice has another thread about that). And while it wasn't a problem now, I think the big age difference might have become an issue later. (But maybe not. Some relationships survive a big age gap, but I think that's more common when the male partner is older.)

@TooNice, I know it's hard to picture now... but you will find someone who is a much better fit for you. But this guy was good for you at this stage in your life. I think you got a lot out of this relationship.


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## ne9907

@TooNice
I am sorry  

I think it is for the best

@Everyone thank you for the information. We had an OK 4 day weekend. I have a no-nonsense personality, he is more carefree, doesn't believe in medication, takes his time when doing things, but also researches purchases or how to do things when he doesn't know.... I am not!!!

I am used to being "my way or the highway"

I was in an abusive marriage, ex conditioned me to believe everything he said and did was good.... well... now I cant simply accept someone's word.

This weekend, we made two flower beds. He felt that his ideas were better than mine because he had done flower beds before ( I never have) 

We fought. I walked away in the middle of homedepot, he got upset because I walked away from him.
I got upset because he wasn't hearing my opinions. We made up. The flower bed was amazing.

He also annoyed the **** out of me because of his constant talking! He went from one topic to the next without much thought. We argued again because I wasn't able to say anything.... we made up. He is doing better.

He feels I attack him when I point out issues, like how I feel his constant talking leaves no room for me to voice my opinions, or his desire to do things his way leaves me feeling "out."

We both are getting better. 

I was simply exhausted. I did not sleep well this past week (all WEEK LONG). Reason? He hardly slept. He probably slept 3-5 fragmented hours in a 24 hour period! 
I cant sleep when I hear him tossing around, or "fixing" things....

Last night I went to bed early, did not get up until time to get ready for work

he had done dishes, done laundry, vacuumed, arranged all books, cleaned the bathroom, got the coffee machine ready for me, the house looks spotless...... he did all at night, while I slept.
Mind you, we worked ALL day on the garden.

I am concerned for his health. He has been on this manic episode (I apologize if I am mistaken) for a week and a half. 

I am happy with him. We have fun together, the sex is great, but he annoys the **** out of me. I am detaching emotionally from him. 
We shall see...


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## RandomDude

Hope Shimmers said:


> And even thought it's my area of expertise, you understand and yet I can't possibly get it?
> 
> Okay.
> 
> Like I said before, time to agree to disagree on this one.


Seems so, as you have spent so long from your perspective you are unable to understand the perspective of those who have been diagnosed. It's a tricky one, and I don't fault you for it, just a product of our times.


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> @TooNice
> I am sorry
> 
> I think it is for the best
> 
> @Everyone thank you for the information. We had an OK 4 day weekend. I have a no-nonsense personality, he is more carefree, doesn't believe in medication, takes his time when doing things, but also researches purchases or how to do things when he doesn't know.... I am not!!!
> 
> I am used to being "my way or the highway"
> 
> I was in an abusive marriage, ex conditioned me to believe everything he said and did was good.... well... now I cant simply accept someone's word.
> 
> This weekend, we made two flower beds. He felt that his ideas were better than mine because he had done flower beds before ( I never have)
> 
> We fought. I walked away in the middle of homedepot, he got upset because I walked away from him.
> I got upset because he wasn't hearing my opinions. We made up. The flower bed was amazing.
> 
> He also annoyed the **** out of me because of his constant talking! He went from one topic to the next without much thought. We argued again because I wasn't able to say anything.... we made up. He is doing better.
> 
> He feels I attack him when I point out issues, like how I feel his constant talking leaves no room for me to voice my opinions, or his desire to do things his way leaves me feeling "out."
> 
> We both are getting better.
> 
> I was simply exhausted. I did not sleep well this past week (all WEEK LONG). Reason? He hardly slept. He probably slept 3-5 fragmented hours in a 24 hour period!
> I cant sleep when I hear him tossing around, or "fixing" things....
> 
> Last night I went to bed early, did not get up until time to get ready for work
> 
> he had done dishes, done laundry, vacuumed, arranged all books, cleaned the bathroom, got the coffee machine ready for me, the house looks spotless...... he did all at night, while I slept.
> Mind you, we worked ALL day on the garden.
> 
> I am concerned for his health. He has been on this manic episode (I apologize if I am mistaken) for a week and a half.
> 
> I am happy with him. We have fun together, the sex is great, but he annoys the **** out of me. I am detaching emotionally from him.
> We shall see...


Sounds like my dad, set in his ways and likes his conversations one-way, arrogance, combined with my problems of fragmented sleep. I can't stand my dad...

Curious, why do you say you love him?


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Sounds like my dad, set in his ways and likes his conversations one-way, arrogance, combined with my problems of fragmented sleep. I can't stand my dad...
> 
> Curious, why do you say you love him?


Good question. Ne has a tendency to fall for men who are bad for her. 

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## RandomDude

Aye... and here I was under the impression it was a past thing :/

But it's now a pattern


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## Elizabeth001

Bad man picker. Guilty myself. 


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## Red Sonja

Elizabeth001 said:


> Bad man picker. Guilty myself.


Me too.  

Although I have had close friends whose opinions I respect tell me that it's because I am very independent/self-sufficient ... they say that quality attracts a lot of "passive Nice Guy orbiters". :scratchhead:


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## Elizabeth001

Red Sonja said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> Although I have had close friends whose opinions I respect tell me that it's because I am very independent/self-sufficient ... they say that quality attracts a lot of "passive Nice Guy orbiters". :scratchhead:




I COMPLETELY identify. Ugh. 


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## TooNice

Thanks for the support, all. I spent the night with a good friend and wine, sushi and ice cream. Talked through a few other things with her, and I know breaking up is the right thing. He's fantastic. But not meant for me, as hard as it is to admit that. There are other things I haven't even touched on here or with him. As great as he is, it shouldn't be that much effort, especially a few months in. I just truly hope we can be friends, and that we aren't being naive to hope we can. We've agreed to not talk much til Friday, but he did text to check on me. 

I fear this whole week is going to be a bit of a roller coaster.


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## Dedicated2Her

TooNice said:


> Thanks for the support, all. I spent the night with a good friend and wine, sushi and ice cream. Talked through a few other things with her, and I know breaking up is the right thing. He's fantastic. But not meant for me, as hard as it is to admit that. There are other things I haven't even touched on here or with him. As great as he is, it shouldn't be that much effort, especially a few months in. I just truly hope we can be friends, and that we aren't being naive to hope we can. We've agreed to not talk much til Friday, but he did text to check on me.
> 
> I fear this whole week is going to be a bit of a roller coaster.


Ride the roller coaster out.......and you are right, it shouldn't be hard at all at this point. Big red flag.


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> Bad man picker. Guilty myself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too!!


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## ne9907

RandomDude said:


> Curious, why do you say you love him?


This is a good question. I actually thought hard about this about a month ago when I felt I loved him.

First and foremost, he takes care of me when I am down (depressed) he makes me laugh but if I need to cry he holds me until the crying stops. His holding is not just like "there, there, there, but actually a strong embrace which makes me feel as if he is pouring his good energy in me. 

When we are asleep, we hold each other's hand all the time. He makes me feel safe. This is silly but I love being the big spoon, he doesn't mind at all. Most men do. He likes it. 

We disagree on several issues, but agree on the most important ones such as spirituality, family, way of thinking, morality and ethics. 

Sex isn't mind blowing yet it is so satisfying, he has the perfect mixture of tenderness and roughness I like. I always feel as if he not only penetrates my body but my soul as well. 

On several occasions, I have felt as if we have met before, as if several versions of ourselves (he and I) are co-existing in the same plane of reality but in different universes. Seems strange to put into writing...
More like.. we can be in the kitchen, yet I sense us being outside in the rain, or being in bed, or just goofing around.

I do pick the wrong men. I know he is wrong for me, yet I am enjoying his company one day at a time. This is the reason I get frustrated when I see his dark side because I am fooling myself into thinking we only have sunshine, or he is just too strong to crumble like me (depression and mental health issues).
@TooNice do not fault yourself if you decide to go back to him. It is your life, do what makes you happy.


----------



## RandomDude

*sigh*

Girlfriend has made her decision. She's going back to her home country. Well... guess it's over. Just sudden really. Finally meet someone great and yet there's no future. Oh well maybe this is for the best, need to focus on my work, my studies and my daughter anyway.

Going to need to readjust...


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Girlfriend has made her decision. She's going back to her home country. Well... guess it's over. Just sudden really. Finally meet someone great and yet there's no future. Oh well maybe this is for the best, need to focus on my work, my studies and my daughter anyway.
> 
> Going to need to readjust...


I'm sorry, RD. I was really hoping for a different outcome for the two of you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## bwent

Hi! Just wanted to join in the club. Just became officially single for the first time since I was 18. It's nice to be on a forum again and just be able to talk.


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I'm sorry, RD. I was really hoping for a different outcome for the two of you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


And... she changes her mind. Well... so much for decisiveness... shes still torn, said she tried to remove me from FB, delete our photos, couldn't. Ended up staring at her phone.

I dunno what to do at this point :| Happy to have her back but... are we just delaying the inevitable?

In other news... @bwent

Welcome!


----------



## Mucc

Hi Everyone, 

Joining in the banter today, because well...why not! 

My ex has agreed to all my terms and my lawyer drafted the separation agreement today, so I am finally seeing the end of this tunnel. I was married for a year. I have been separated over a year and it was headed for divorce the entire time. So this is not exactly news for me. Yet the finality stings slightly. Oh well...

I guess it could have been worse. I could have had kids which would then make me deal with him and his awful family for the rest of my life (oh the horror!). 

So I was thinking, has anyone ever found its a disadvantage if you have a "busy career" as a female? I am not dating anyone and I am not looking - so this is all hypothetical based on past experience...and maybe I am just terrible at picking mates...BUT

I have dated all sorts of men, the laid back chill type, the moderate - i am gonna get a job but nothing more than that, and the driven go getter type. I usually don't care what my partner does, as long as they do something they enjoy and make a living. I do not have an issue with being the breadwinner in the family because I look at my job as something that happens to pay well. I do value the concept of higher education, and find I mesh well with people who generally value that (not that there is anything wrong with not going to school and doing your own thing and being successful at it). However, I do find that most men end up being insecure and threatened by my career. My job can be demanding and I usually warn everyone I am dating early on about it. For example, if I just worked a 26 hour shift on friday and I am going to repeat the same thing on sunday, and Saturday is the only day I get to sleep, I am likely not enthusiastic about being out and about. So I guess that can be a bummer for a partner. I recognize the challenges that my job brings. I like to think I don't say or do things that make my partner insecure - for example, I let them pay for dates if they want to but will offer to chip in if need be. I like to think I am not super high maintenance, dont usually care for gifts (since that is not my love language) but will appreciate immensely if someone cooked me a meal. If someone takes something on my to-do list and does it for me, I am forever grateful to them. But I try not to dump my to-do list on someone else (I try to take care of my own stuff even in a relationship, pay my bills, car maintenance etc.). But after a while I find, men I am in relationships with start to develop a complex. I had thought with my ex-husband this would not have been a problem - since he has his own career, is pretty stable career wise etc. but at one point even he wanted me to quit my career. Or he would make comments like - if you are so smart, how come you are not good at math (in the context of me getting some simple math wrong on a bill), or he would say - one day you are going to make all this money and then you won't let me buy anything for my family (I am not even sure where that came from since I had never made any such comments). In the past I have dated men who have been more laid back, but then they just cheated on me when I was busy in school. Or I have had ones that wanted me to stop talking to friends/classmates because they were worried I would break up with them for someone who is "more my league" (as they put it). I just don't understand this, I am like this bookworm, boring personality, that chills at home with friends on weekends, reads a book on the rooftop on a nice day, doesn't talk to strange men when I am in a relationship etc. So I like to think I give no reason for my partners to be insecure. And yet being in a demanding career has been a huge struggle in my relationships regardless of the personality of my partners (Type A, B, C, D, E....)

What am I doing wrong? I have friends. I introduce people I am dating to my friends. My friends are quite nice people. I have hobbies. I do research. I go volunteer at places. I generally have my life together. So what am I doing wrong? I am sort of frustrated because - well I am not getting any younger. I like to think the degrees I am getting are part of my life-long learning strategy and I enjoy my career, so i don't want to stop doing that. 

I just want someone who is okay with what I do and is supportive of my dreams and aspirations. They can do what they like, I don't need them to have a certain profession or earning potential. They can make more or less $$ than me, I don't care. I just want them to be a good human being, kind, helpful and sometimes take things off my plate because they care about how exhausted I am. Is that too much of a wish list? 

Anyway, I am not actively looking. I am just hoping I'll randomly run into someone at the grocery store produce section....does that even happen anymore? 

I am just rambling, but it feels like someone is listening. Insights are welcome!


----------



## Bananapeel

@Mucc - If your career is what keeps you happy then it should be a priority and hopefully you'll find a man that enjoys seeing that drive in you. There's nothing sexier than a smart, successful, driven woman. However, with that being said, if your career is preventing you from living a well balanced life then don't expect that you'll have the time to bring a man into it. As a man I do not value the amount of $$$ that a woman brings into the relationship because I don't look for women to supplement my income or financially support me in any way. Therefore, there has to be other qualities that they bring. What else do you bring to a relationship if you are working all the time? Those are things that men will probably gravitate towards so identify them, own them, and be proud of them.


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## Mucc

Bananapeel said:


> @Mucc - If your career is what keeps you happy then it should be a priority and hopefully you'll find a man that enjoys seeing that drive in you. There's nothing sexier than a smart, successful, driven woman. However, with that being said, if your career is preventing you from living a well balanced life then don't expect that you'll have the time to bring a man into it. As a man I do not value the amount of $$$ that a woman brings into the relationship because I don't look for women to supplement my income or financially support me in any way. Therefore, there has to be other qualities that they bring. What else do you bring to a relationship if you are working all the time? Those are things that men will probably gravitate towards so identify them, own them, and be proud of them.



I see what you are saying and basically agree. 

I would say I work more than some jobs. And I have time off and what not, I just need to plan way ahead of time for vacations etc. For example, if my partner and their friends make a spontaneous plan to go to the movies and I am working 24 hours the next day, chances are I won't be able to go out. I am a physician. I need to read when I get home so I can help a patient I saw during the day. I do not have every weekend off. If my patient is sick on a friday night, I gotta go in. Having said that, I love my job. I am happy doing my work and I think I am very fortunate that I enjoy what I do. 

But it's not like running your family business or something where you are constantly busy. I do have vacation time which I can use to travel/relax. I do find time for friends, for my hobbies etc. If I were to have a partner, I would adjust accordingly, I have in the past. But of course there are spurts when I am working lots or I am writing a national exam and I am buried in a pile of books. 

I feel the same way about money. As in it will come. I am financially independent and happy to continue being that way. 

I dunno. I guess I just hope that being me is sufficient coz I truly love what I do and its taken me over a decade to get here.


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## TooNice

Mucc said:


> I dunno. I guess I just hope that being me is sufficient coz I truly love what I do and its taken me over a decade to get here.



I think if you have that, everything else in life follows. I am sad for people who can't say this about what they do. You are lucky-enjoy it!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Mucc said:


> I dunno. I guess I just hope that being me is sufficient coz I truly love what I do and its taken me over a decade to get here.


It seems like you'd be best off dating those in your same field or a similar one. Then they would be on the same playing field with you and also understand the demands of your work.


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## SunCMars

Off in the distance, way off... an apparition starts to take form. 

It is on its way...to "here"...I sense this. A foreboding.

Is it me?


----------



## RandomDude

GF and I in a bind, after our 2 hour breakup, she says she doesn't want to lose me, but that she has to go back, yet she can't let me go. I really don't know what to say to her, except for "enjoying the time that we have"... should I just end it so we don't have to have a drama at the airport? Erm... still a few weeks away... a part of me wants to procrastinate, another part of me wants to just spare us the inevitable misery.

Don't know what to do


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## SunCMars

ne9907 said:


> Most times when I am with him, I feel as if we have been together before (another life) and we will be together again in the future.
> 
> His voice, the length of his arms, the way his rough hands feel against my skin, everything is so familiar... Like I have always had his presence with me.
> Which in turn, scares the **** out of me....


Of course...

He has...

He is...

He will...

Again and again...

You cannot shake him off...he is you.

In another life..


----------



## Bananapeel

Mucc said:


> I see what you are saying and basically agree.
> 
> I would say I work more than some jobs. And I have time off and what not, I just need to plan way ahead of time for vacations etc. For example, if my partner and their friends make a spontaneous plan to go to the movies and I am working 24 hours the next day, chances are I won't be able to go out. I am a physician. I need to read when I get home so I can help a patient I saw during the day. I do not have every weekend off. If my patient is sick on a friday night, I gotta go in. Having said that, I love my job. I am happy doing my work and I think I am very fortunate that I enjoy what I do.
> 
> But it's not like running your family business or something where you are constantly busy. I do have vacation time which I can use to travel/relax. I do find time for friends, for my hobbies etc. If I were to have a partner, I would adjust accordingly, I have in the past. But of course there are spurts when I am working lots or I am writing a national exam and I am buried in a pile of books.
> 
> I feel the same way about money. As in it will come. I am financially independent and happy to continue being that way.
> 
> I dunno. I guess I just hope that being me is sufficient coz I truly love what I do and its taken me over a decade to get here.


I get where you are coming from...I really do. I don't want to post specifics about my career here but I do understand the time/effort required to get where you are. However, with a professional career there can be difficulties to find an optimal work-life balance with certain career paths. I know that when I was looking for a job I had the option to go down a very busy career path that would basically own me and most of my time or to target a much more casually paced position where I'd have a lot of time and freedom to dedicate to my family and myself. Of course the salary differences were quite noticeable, but I made my choice for the latter pathway and have never looked back. I earn enough to have a very comfortable lifestyle and have the time to enjoy myself, my kids, and be involved in a lot of extracurricular and community activities. Basically, what I'm saying is you might have more choices than you are recognizing. If you feel like you aren't finding what you want in life then maybe it's time to think about a change and see if there is a way to stay in your current profession but find a less demanding position that gives you the free time to establish and maintain a romantic relationship. I think that maybe you should think about the trades you're making in life and whether you want to continue with the path you are on or whether you'd be happier if you tweeked things a bit. I'm not saying that you should change who you are, just that you might want to decide how much of who you are is your job and whether that is what you want in the long run.


----------



## ne9907

Mucc said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Joining in the banter today, because well...why not!
> 
> My ex has agreed to all my terms and my lawyer drafted the separation agreement today, so I am finally seeing the end of this tunnel. I was married for a year. I have been separated over a year and it was headed for divorce the entire time. So this is not exactly news for me. Yet the finality stings slightly. Oh well...
> 
> I guess it could have been worse. I could have had kids which would then make me deal with him and his awful family for the rest of my life (oh the horror!).
> 
> So I was thinking, has anyone ever found its a disadvantage if you have a "busy career" as a female? I am not dating anyone and I am not looking - so this is all hypothetical based on past experience...and maybe I am just terrible at picking mates...BUT
> 
> I have dated all sorts of men, the laid back chill type, the moderate - i am gonna get a job but nothing more than that, and the driven go getter type. I usually don't care what my partner does, as long as they do something they enjoy and make a living. I do not have an issue with being the breadwinner in the family because I look at my job as something that happens to pay well. I do value the concept of higher education, and find I mesh well with people who generally value that (not that there is anything wrong with not going to school and doing your own thing and being successful at it). However, I do find that most men end up being insecure and threatened by my career. My job can be demanding and I usually warn everyone I am dating early on about it. For example, if I just worked a 26 hour shift on friday and I am going to repeat the same thing on sunday, and Saturday is the only day I get to sleep, I am likely not enthusiastic about being out and about. So I guess that can be a bummer for a partner. I recognize the challenges that my job brings. I like to think I don't say or do things that make my partner insecure - for example, I let them pay for dates if they want to but will offer to chip in if need be. I like to think I am not super high maintenance, dont usually care for gifts (since that is not my love language) but will appreciate immensely if someone cooked me a meal. If someone takes something on my to-do list and does it for me, I am forever grateful to them. But I try not to dump my to-do list on someone else (I try to take care of my own stuff even in a relationship, pay my bills, car maintenance etc.). But after a while I find, men I am in relationships with start to develop a complex. I had thought with my ex-husband this would not have been a problem - since he has his own career, is pretty stable career wise etc. but at one point even he wanted me to quit my career. Or he would make comments like - if you are so smart, how come you are not good at math (in the context of me getting some simple math wrong on a bill), or he would say - one day you are going to make all this money and then you won't let me buy anything for my family (I am not even sure where that came from since I had never made any such comments). In the past I have dated men who have been more laid back, but then they just cheated on me when I was busy in school. Or I have had ones that wanted me to stop talking to friends/classmates because they were worried I would break up with them for someone who is "more my league" (as they put it). I just don't understand this, I am like this bookworm, boring personality, that chills at home with friends on weekends, reads a book on the rooftop on a nice day, doesn't talk to strange men when I am in a relationship etc. So I like to think I give no reason for my partners to be insecure. And yet being in a demanding career has been a huge struggle in my relationships regardless of the personality of my partners (Type A, B, C, D, E....)
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I have friends. I introduce people I am dating to my friends. My friends are quite nice people. I have hobbies. I do research. I go volunteer at places. I generally have my life together. So what am I doing wrong? I am sort of frustrated because - well I am not getting any younger. I like to think the degrees I am getting are part of my life-long learning strategy and I enjoy my career, so i don't want to stop doing that.
> 
> I just want someone who is okay with what I do and is supportive of my dreams and aspirations. They can do what they like, I don't need them to have a certain profession or earning potential. They can make more or less $$ than me, I don't care. I just want them to be a good human being, kind, helpful and sometimes take things off my plate because they care about how exhausted I am. Is that too much of a wish list?
> 
> Anyway, I am not actively looking. I am just hoping I'll randomly run into someone at the grocery store produce section....does that even happen anymore?
> 
> I am just rambling, but it feels like someone is listening. Insights are welcome!


I could have written this :grin2:

Sometimes when I am out and about and see happy couples I wonder "why are they in such a happy relationship and I am not?" Especially if I perceive this people to be less attractive than I am. 

My ego is a bit strong but working on being more humble.


----------



## ne9907

RandomDude said:


> GF and I in a bind, after our 2 hour breakup, she says she doesn't want to lose me, but that she has to go back, yet she can't let me go. I really don't know what to say to her, except for "enjoying the time that we have"... should I just end it so we don't have to have a drama at the airport? Erm... still a few weeks away... a part of me wants to procrastinate, another part of me wants to just spare us the inevitable misery.
> 
> Don't know what to do


I am on the mind of enjoy being with her while it last. Yes, perhaps it will be painful but... just enjoy your time together.


----------



## ne9907

SunCMars said:


> Of course...
> 
> He has...
> 
> He is...
> 
> He will...
> 
> Again and again...
> 
> You cannot shake him off...he is you.
> 
> In another life..


THe feelings are just weird. At the moment, I am simply going with the feelings. Sometimes, he exasperates me... I have lived alone for a while, I don't like to wait for people, I do things my way so adapting to someone else is a challenge


----------



## Mucc

Faithful Wife said:


> It seems like you'd be best off dating those in your same field or a similar one. Then they would be on the same playing field with you and also understand the demands of your work.


I used to think that perhaps someone else in a time consuming profession would understand that better, but my ex-husband debunked that theory for me. Now I would like to believe that all it takes is a kind person...maybe? I feel like they don't have to be in the same career as me, as long as they enjoy their job...then maybe they will understand that I enjoy mine, and that I would be miserable being a banker, or an engineer, or a hair dresser or whatever (not that I have the creative skills for any of these jobs)




TooNice said:


> I think if you have that, everything else in life follows. I am sad for people who can't say this about what they do. You are lucky-enjoy it!
> 
> Thank you, I certainly hope so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Bananapeel said:


> I get where you are coming from...I really do. I don't want to post specifics about my career here but I do understand the time/effort required to get where you are. However, with a professional career there can be difficulties to find an optimal work-life balance with certain career paths. I know that when I was looking for a job I had the option to go down a very busy career path that would basically own me and most of my time or to target a much more casually paced position where I'd have a lot of time and freedom to dedicate to my family and myself. Of course the salary differences were quite noticeable, but I made my choice for the latter pathway and have never looked back. I earn enough to have a very comfortable lifestyle and have the time to enjoy myself, my kids, and be involved in a lot of extracurricular and community activities. Basically, what I'm saying is you might have more choices than you are recognizing. If you feel like you aren't finding what you want in life then maybe it's time to think about a change and see if there is a way to stay in your current profession but find a less demanding position that gives you the free time to establish and maintain a romantic relationship. I think that maybe you should think about the trades you're making in life and whether you want to continue with the path you are on or whether you'd be happier if you tweeked things a bit. I'm not saying that you should change who you are, just that you might want to decide how much of who you are is your job and whether that is what you want in the long run.


Agree. I think one day when I am finished my training I would have more flexibility of schedule or at least control over my time. That will hopefully allow me to work as much or as little as I wanted. I am still finishing training though and the finish line is a few years away. 



ne9907 said:


> I could have written this :grin2:
> 
> Sometimes when I am out and about and see happy couples I wonder "why are they in such a happy relationship and I am not?" Especially if I perceive this people to be less attractive than I am.
> 
> My ego is a bit strong but working on being more humble.


Not sure if this was a jab. I'm good at what I do, but only because I like what I do. You could put me in another job and I would lack skills to be successful or very good at it. 

Nevertheless, I don't have the same problem. I don't consider people less attractive, or accomplished or whatever when I meet them. Neither am I envious of others being in happier relationships. Everyone has to walk their own path in life sometimes. There are people out there who have it better than me and those that have it much worse than me. 

I just think people are different. We all have different values, different hopes, dreams, ways in which we want to lead our lives, different points where we are willing to compromise and points where we are willing to walk away. It takes the right mix to make it work.


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> I am on the mind of enjoy being with her while it last. Yes, perhaps it will be painful but... just enjoy your time together.


She's spoiled me, it took me so long to find someone like her... I'm really not looking forward to going back to the dating game. After this there's no way she can get back to the country unless she decides to study, which she simply doesn't want to.

*sigh*


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> She's spoiled me, it took me so long to find someone like her... I'm really not looking forward to going back to the dating game. After this there's no way she can get back to the country unless she decides to study, which she simply doesn't want to.
> 
> *sigh*



I'm so sorry you are having to go through this, RD.


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> I'm so sorry you are having to go through this, RD.


Me, too. Ditto.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Worse she's going to a bloody warzone because he won't leave the house and her brother has moved on with his wife bah!


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## foolscotton3

hi tam

Update...
Divorced about 15 months...
I am sitting on my porch with my two dogs, Ace (7mo Red Fox Lab/Coonhound, Black 50#) and Jack (9mo? Foxhound, tricolor 40#)
Work is good, I have had a girlfriend for about a month, and ended a year long relationship about 4 months ago. She's chatty, intelligent, natural beach blond, blue eyes, 5'7' 95#, nerdy sex godess. I am not in love, I enjoy her, she knows this, and respects that. However she trys very hard to make it seem like it is more than what it is. Not publicly, but every so often she North Koreas me. She trys to tell me she loves me without using the L word, she will even say "L-word" to avoid saying "love," which she couldnt possibly really feel after such a short time. I dont know if somehow through conversation she thinks that "love" is a curse word for me or what, it doesnt creep me out. I actually think its cute, and openly patronize her willy wonka style, she thinks its cute when i do that.

Ive also got a male roomate who has become somewhat of a little brother, and were pretty sure the neighborhood thinks were gay.









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## FeministInPink

@foolscotton3 Yeah, a month in is a little early to be in love... after a month, you don't know someone well enough. It takes a long time for real, mature love to develop.

Even after more than a year with Real Estate, he won't say that he loves me. I FEEL loved by him, but he won't go there. He says he cares for me deeply, that he's committed to me and our relationship, that he is attached to me, and that I'm his favorite person. But he's not ready for "love" yet, at least not to say it out loud.

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## FeministInPink

PS It's funny about your roommate. But a good roommate is a good thing to have.

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## Elizabeth001

I think you can feel love, real love, in a short amount of time. The key is being patient enough to spend a fair amount of time together to see if the compatibility is there to support the feelings of genuine love. To get past the fireworks stage and spend time together picking up dog poop and taking the trash out. 

Oh and then there's the "one bathroom" issue for me. I'm getting ready to buy a home that has one bathroom and one sink. If a man can live with me and we can respect the one bathroom and each other's time in it, he'll be a keeper 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> I think you can feel love, real love, in a short amount of time. The key is being patient enough to spend a fair amount of time together to see if the compatibility is there to support the feelings of genuine love. To get past the fireworks stage and spend time together picking up dog poop and taking the trash out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its most definitely possible. I fell in love the first time we hugged when we met back up after MANY years of not seeing one another. BOOM that was it, I was done for. Sadly for me its still not reciprocated, and my feelings still remain.


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## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> Its most definitely possible. I fell in love the first time we hugged when we met back up after MANY years of not seeing one another. BOOM that was it, I was done for. Sadly for me its still not reciprocated, and my feelings still remain.




Aw. Boo. 

I fell pretty hard and fast for a guy I dated after my separation. As it turned out, he was batsh1t crazy. I still have a spark for him but unless and until he does some mental housekeeping, I won't date him. I actually tried a second time because he seemed to have gotten it together but it only took a couple of dates to see that nothing had really changed. Some folks are pretty good at putting their best foot forward. I'm glad I figured it out before I was too emotionally invested though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foolscotton3

Thanks for the replies.
The last girl I dated for over a year, we never even had a conversation about our feelings for each other. Once she let it slip as we were ending a call, but promptly texted me that she didn't really mean what she said and it slipped afterwards. I replied that it happens, and I wasn't worried about it.

I think this new girl is a little I experienced with committed long term relationships. She grew up back woods no dating, and had more than enough online love bombers before meeting me.

We both agree that an organic relationship without the added love trope was ideal.

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## RandomDude

Why does one want to hear that another loves them? Personally I like it when I don't share my feelings and vice versa. Hearing the ILUs make me cringe these days, and I still haven't told GF I love her either, because I don't. I just like her alot and care about her but no longer really open to "love"...


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## foolscotton3

Let's see what coach Mora has to say.









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## foolscotton3

foolscotton3 said:


> Let's see what coach Mora has to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk




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## foolscotton3

I'm having issues editing and deleting post, it's been so long I can't figure it out.

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## ne9907

I am officially a 40 year old virgin~ minus the virgin part 

I turned 40 years old this past Wednesday.

So background... remember the guy I am dating? His bipolar issues? Anyway, he has been staying with me for a while. I told him to move out about three weeks ago, he hasn't. I have been detaching from him. Not a lot. Just enough. Reason? He will move out, but we will continue seeing each other. Living together isn't working out.

Last week I asked him if he would like to go with me to Napa to celebrate my milestone. He said that getting massages, mud baths etc, wasn't his thing (I understood).

So I asked "what about Universal Studios Hollywood"? they have this new Harry Potter world OMG~ He said no, because the drive was too long. I asked him to give me ideas because I wanted to spend my birthday with him. He said nothing. I understood because he was coming down from his manic episode and sleeping a lot, more than 14+ a day.

On my birthday, we had morning sex which is usually all the time so it wasn't special. He says nothing at all to me. My FB is going crazy. He says nothing. 

I get up, make breakfast (for both of us!) he still says nothing. We eat. Then he asked if I wanted to do something... maybe go to the mountains....

I said no, I said I wanted to chill for a bit (I am passive aggressive.... ugh) Anyway, I was sad and distanced a lot more. He didn't ask anything, he said nothing.

Later in the day, I asked him "Do you know today is my birthday?"

He lied and said he knew and had told me happy birthday.... 

Long story short. I told him to move out again. He hasn't. I am writing an official vacate notice. I was extremely hurt. I am feeling better now. I want him out. We will not be able to salvage what we have...


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## tripad

FeministInPink said:


> TooNice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so sorry you are having to go through this, RD.
> 
> 
> 
> Me, too. Ditto.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Sorry man , the pain you have to go through . Hugs n Kisses .


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## tripad

foolscotton3 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> The last girl I dated for over a year, we never even had a conversation about our feelings for each other. Once she let it slip as we were ending a call, but promptly texted me that she didn't really mean what she said and it slipped afterwards. I replied that it happens, and I wasn't worried about it.
> 
> I think this new girl is a little I experienced with committed long term relationships. She grew up back woods no dating, and had more than enough online love bombers before meeting me.
> 
> We both agree that an organic relationship without the added love trope was ideal.
> 
> Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk





RandomDude said:


> Why does one want to hear that another loves them? Personally I like it when I don't share my feelings and vice versa. Hearing the ILUs make me cringe these days, and I still haven't told GF I love her either, because I don't. I just like her alot and care about her but no longer really open to "love"...


Frankly , after a divorce , i dont think the words " i love u " means anything unless it's when my boys say it to me . 

Not sure if I mean it when the time comes for me to utter those words . 

Reading some celebrities' love messages posted on instagram professing their love n their impending wedding and i wonder what will they say when they divorce ? 

Sorry , being cynical here .


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## tripad

FeministInPink said:


> @foolscotton3 Yeah, a month in is a little early to be in love... after a month, you don't know someone well enough. It takes a long time for real, mature love to develop.
> 
> Even after more than a year with Real Estate, he won't say that he loves me. I FEEL loved by him, but he won't go there. He says he cares for me deeply, that he's committed to me and our relationship, that he is attached to me, and that I'm his favorite person. But he's not ready for "love" yet, at least not to say it out loud.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


So i guess whether RE utter the love word or not is not important as long as you are his priority .

Even husbands dont put their wives as priority sometimes , n utter love word with no real meaning , or say love you while they are screwing someone else .

The love word doesnt mean anything . If it doesnt mean anything .


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## tripad

Job wise doing really well . Hatching more plans to grow in medium term future . N Kids . No time for anything else . Except catch up with girlies . Which was good . Hmmmmmmm . Need a bf soon , 2019 ?


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## FeministInPink

tripad said:


> So i guess whether RE utter the love word or not is not important as long as you are his priority .
> 
> Even husbands dont put their wives as priority sometimes , n utter love word with no real meaning , or say love you while they are screwing someone else .
> 
> The love word doesnt mean anything . If it doesnt mean anything .


That's the way I think about it. XH used to tell me he loved me all the time, but treated me like crap. I got the words from XH, but it didn't feel like he loved me and never made me a priority.

I'd rather feel it and know that I'm a priority and see it in action. That's more important to me than words.

An example. I found out on Tuesday that I'm losing my job, which sucks, but it's also ok because I hate my job and my boss is a jerk. They're keeping me on for another month, then I get a 4-month severance with full benefits, and they will pay out my unused vacation days, which is equal to almost two months' pay. So, of course, I called RE as soon as it happened. And talked to him again when I was on my way home from work.

Tuesday nights, RE plays trivia. Never misses it. I've been with him a few times. So, I didn't want to ask him to skip trivia to spend the evening with me... He went to trivia for the first hour, and then he said to his friends, I've got to go, there's something more important I need to do, and he drove over to my place to surprise me and give me some TLC. Turns out he only went to trivia in the first place because they have these half-time trivia "sheets," and he always grabs an extra one to bring home for me to do later... He went to trivia so he could get me a trivia sheet to help cheer me up.

He's a good man, that RE of mine.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> I am officially a 40 year old virgin~ minus the virgin part
> 
> I turned 40 years old this past Wednesday.
> 
> So background... remember the guy I am dating? His bipolar issues? Anyway, he has been staying with me for a while. I told him to move out about three weeks ago, he hasn't. I have been detaching from him. Not a lot. Just enough. Reason? He will move out, but we will continue seeing each other. Living together isn't working out.
> 
> Last week I asked him if he would like to go with me to Napa to celebrate my milestone. He said that getting massages, mud baths etc, wasn't his thing (I understood).
> 
> So I asked "what about Universal Studios Hollywood"? they have this new Harry Potter world OMG~ He said no, because the drive was too long. I asked him to give me ideas because I wanted to spend my birthday with him. He said nothing. I understood because he was coming down from his manic episode and sleeping a lot, more than 14+ a day.
> 
> On my birthday, we had morning sex which is usually all the time so it wasn't special. He says nothing at all to me. My FB is going crazy. He says nothing.
> 
> I get up, make breakfast (for both of us!) he still says nothing. We eat. Then he asked if I wanted to do something... maybe go to the mountains....
> 
> I said no, I said I wanted to chill for a bit (I am passive aggressive.... ugh) Anyway, I was sad and distanced a lot more. He didn't ask anything, he said nothing.
> 
> Later in the day, I asked him "Do you know today is my birthday?"
> 
> He lied and said he knew and had told me happy birthday....
> 
> Long story short. I told him to move out again. He hasn't. I am writing an official vacate notice. I was extremely hurt. I am feeling better now. I want him out. We will not be able to salvage what we have...


You need to figure out your legal options to get this loser put of your house, ne. You deserve better than these men that you put up with.

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## FeministInPink

FeministInPink said:


> You need to figure out your legal options to get this loser put of your house, ne. You deserve better than these men that you put up with.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


And don't continue to see him after you het his ass out of your house. Stop wasting your time with losers.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> That's the way I think about it. XH used to tell me he loved me all the time, but treated me like crap. I got the words from XH, but it didn't feel like he loved me and never made me a priority.
> 
> I'd rather feel it and know that I'm a priority and see it in action. That's more important to me than words.
> 
> An example. I found out on Tuesday that I'm losing my job, which sucks, but it's also ok because I hate my job and my boss is a jerk. They're keeping me on for another month, then I get a 4-month severance with full benefits, and they will pay out my unused vacation days, which is equal to almost two months' pay. So, of course, I called RE as soon as it happened. And talked to him again when I was on my way home from work.
> 
> Tuesday nights, RE plays trivia. Never misses it. I've been with him a few times. So, I didn't want to ask him to skip trivia to spend the evening with me... He went to trivia for the first hour, and then he said to his friends, I've got to go, there's something more important I need to do, and he drove over to my place to surprise me and give me some TLC. Turns out he only went to trivia in the first place because they have these half-time trivia "sheets," and he always grabs an extra one to bring home for me to do later... He went to trivia so he could get me a trivia sheet to help cheer me up.
> 
> He's a good man, that RE of mine.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Jelly. 

Jus' sayin'




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## tripad

It's really sad , my brother who's older than me , attempted suicide . Good thing is he didn't die .

He has a sad life , growing up with bad company , on substance abuse . In other countries , it's probably a life style with some . In my country , it is a crime n people get locked up for a long time . People in your country will spit at this . 

But when it's family , it's really sad . He doesnt want to be jailed anymore n he cant stop . He cut his wrist . Police case n all . Now i just hoped he clear the dope test n recover . Uncetain future . 

There's blood everywhere in his house like CSI scene , with my aged mum bending over to clean while sobbing . N only my other bro n myself helping . 

The other siblings cant give a **** n will only harass me for my money or try scams on me , claiming that i dont share my better life with them . 

The worse thing is we cant see him in the hospital till now , as he's under police custody . Really inhumane . My poor mum can't visit n see her son . She begged for only a glance . 

I will pay a ton of money for him if there's a magic potion for him . Yet , i have to dole out food money to him so that i know my money doesn't go to substance . 

I can't talk about this in my circle in my place . So sometimes , i wonder what are my friends for ?


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## FeministInPink

Oh, tripad. I'm so sorry to hear about this. Stories like your brother is what convinces me that drug use needs to be decriminalized. Prison time doesn't help addicts, it only stigmatizes them.

My heart goes out to you, friend. Talk to us about it when you need to. 

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## tripad

???


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## tripad

sorry about the above question marks 

meant to be :crying::crying::crying:


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## TooNice

ne9907 said:


> I am officially a 40 year old virgin~ minus the virgin part
> 
> I turned 40 years old this past Wednesday.
> 
> So background... remember the guy I am dating? His bipolar issues? Anyway, he has been staying with me for a while. I told him to move out about three weeks ago, he hasn't. I have been detaching from him. Not a lot. Just enough. Reason? He will move out, but we will continue seeing each other. Living together isn't working out.
> 
> Last week I asked him if he would like to go with me to Napa to celebrate my milestone. He said that getting massages, mud baths etc, wasn't his thing (I understood).
> 
> So I asked "what about Universal Studios Hollywood"? they have this new Harry Potter world OMG~ He said no, because the drive was too long. I asked him to give me ideas because I wanted to spend my birthday with him. He said nothing. I understood because he was coming down from his manic episode and sleeping a lot, more than 14+ a day.
> 
> On my birthday, we had morning sex which is usually all the time so it wasn't special. He says nothing at all to me. My FB is going crazy. He says nothing.
> 
> I get up, make breakfast (for both of us!) he still says nothing. We eat. Then he asked if I wanted to do something... maybe go to the mountains....
> 
> I said no, I said I wanted to chill for a bit (I am passive aggressive.... ugh) Anyway, I was sad and distanced a lot more. He didn't ask anything, he said nothing.
> 
> Later in the day, I asked him "Do you know today is my birthday?"
> 
> He lied and said he knew and had told me happy birthday....
> 
> Long story short. I told him to move out again. He hasn't. I am writing an official vacate notice. I was extremely hurt. I am feeling better now. I want him out. We will not be able to salvage what we have...


While I am sorry you are going through this, I hope it is truly the breaking point you need to be rid of him. You can do so much better, and you know this. He has dragged you down for too long. Hope you are doing ok.

And Happy Belated Birthday!


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## TooNice

tripad said:


> It's really sad , my brother who's older than me , attempted suicide . Good thing is he didn't die .
> 
> He has a sad life , growing up with bad company , on substance abuse . In other countries , it's probably a life style with some . In my country , it is a crime n people get locked up for a long time . People in your country will spit at this .
> 
> But when it's family , it's really sad . He doesnt want to be jailed anymore n he cant stop . He cut his wrist . Police case n all . Now i just hoped he clear the dope test n recover . Uncetain future .
> 
> There's blood everywhere in his house like CSI scene , with my aged mum bending over to clean while sobbing . N only my other bro n myself helping .
> 
> The other siblings cant give a **** n will only harass me for my money or try scams on me , claiming that i dont share my better life with them .
> 
> The worse thing is we cant see him in the hospital till now , as he's under police custody . Really inhumane . My poor mum can't visit n see her son . She begged for only a glance .
> 
> I will pay a ton of money for him if there's a magic potion for him . Yet , i have to dole out food money to him so that i know my money doesn't go to substance .
> 
> I can't talk about this in my circle in my place . So sometimes , i wonder what are my friends for ?


I am so very sorry you and your family are having to go through this. Substance abuse and the subsequent mental health issues are so difficult to watch someone you love go through. You cannot help someone until they are ready for help, though... and that is the hardest part of all. 

Sending you good thoughts.


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## ne9907

tripad said:


> It's really sad , my brother who's older than me , attempted suicide . Good thing is he didn't die .
> 
> He has a sad life , growing up with bad company , on substance abuse . In other countries , it's probably a life style with some . In my country , it is a crime n people get locked up for a long time . People in your country will spit at this .
> 
> But when it's family , it's really sad . He doesnt want to be jailed anymore n he cant stop . He cut his wrist . Police case n all . Now i just hoped he clear the dope test n recover . Uncetain future .
> 
> There's blood everywhere in his house like CSI scene , with my aged mum bending over to clean while sobbing . N only my other bro n myself helping .
> 
> The other siblings cant give a **** n will only harass me for my money or try scams on me , claiming that i dont share my better life with them .
> 
> The worse thing is we cant see him in the hospital till now , as he's under police custody . Really inhumane . My poor mum can't visit n see her son . She begged for only a glance .
> 
> I will pay a ton of money for him if there's a magic potion for him . Yet , i have to dole out food money to him so that i know my money doesn't go to substance .
> 
> I can't talk about this in my circle in my place . So sometimes , i wonder what are my friends for ?


I am so sorry Tripad... Sending good energy your way! May things get better with your brother


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## Elizabeth001

Had a VM from paralegal after I got off work. Judge signed final decree on the 9th and our copies are in the mail. WOOT 


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> Had a VM from paralegal after I got off work. Judge signed final decree on the 9th and our copies are in the mail. WOOT
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yay, congrats!! :smthumbup:


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## 3Xnocharm

So I came to a depressing realization recently... a man has not been in love with me for FIVE YEARS now. Blah. I have pretty much ALWAYS had a man in my life, and while yeah, I do like being independent, I miss the hell out of being loved.


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## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> So I recently came to a depressing realization recently... a man has not been in love with me for FIVE YEARS now. Blah. I have pretty much ALWAYS had a man in my life, and while yeah, I do like being independent, I miss the hell out of being loved.




Me too. Sigh. I won't settle though 

My papers came today 


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## tripad

Still have not heard or seen my brother. Very depressing. 

Meantime, ex H lost his job again n kept telling my domestic helper that he missed the home, loved the children, that he tried making up with me multiple times but I nastily chased him out ( twisted half truths) . Truth is he wanted back if I continued to pay for this family n kids plus any debts his parents n sisters incurred, 
while his salary was only for their disposal. Truth is when I wanted to straighten things out, he hit me. He was only right about the part that I asked him to leave. 

I think he realised he lost a good wife n kids. But he doesn't realise I don't feel a sh,t for him anymore. Bcoz he asked my helper if I still cry a lot. Wtf?! It has been a few years!!! What is he thinking? That I still love him?? Till the end of the world?!!! I think he read too much fairy tales growing up?!!! Fairy tales n love story are bad for kids?!!! It's out if sight, out of mind. 

Anyway, my mind is on work, kids, holiday planning, n my dear brother who's under police custody n we still have not heard or seen him. He's is my closest n dearest brother despite the fact that he had fallen to substance abuse. too depressed to give a sh,t about how my ex regrets now. Anyway, I think he regrets bcoz he lost his job n hence no income. Not very sexy.


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## Satya

3Xnocharm said:


> So I recently came to a depressing realization recently... a man has not been in love with me for FIVE YEARS now. Blah. I have pretty much ALWAYS had a man in my life, and while yeah, I do like being independent, I miss the hell out of being loved.


I know it's probably not any consolation, but being without a man for a while is a good thing, if all you've known is never being without one.
It allows you to learn to love and care for yourself.

Of course, there are going to be lonely days. I had quite a few of those... but then I would go out and do something fun for myself, like go to the beach then hit the local creamery and get something hideously fattening and delicious. I still do that every now and then. Another thing that I did when single was grow a garden.

Odo knows that I can't be stifled or I will lose that free spirited spark that he originally admired on our first "date."

Oh, and I definitely still do things with my wholesome women friends. "No boys allowed" get-togethers, where we go listen to live music or one of us has a dinner party. I always feel pretty refreshed after those. And I still do occasional Sunday drives, where I will just hop in the car and drive somewhere I haven't been before... sometimes take a dog with me for company... take in the scenery or go to local farmers markets...

I guess my point is, life can be good... even when you're alone. But I do understand what you mean.


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## RandomDude

Argh... I think I might FZ number 2, everytime I have a fight with number 1, number 2 enters my thoughts. Yet, even though I want to commit to number 1 the fact that she's leaving is making me keep number 2.


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Argh... I think I might FZ number 2, everytime I have a fight with number 1, number 2 enters my thoughts. Yet, even though I want to commit to number 1 the fact that she's leaving is making me keep number 2.


RD, it sounds to me like you need to think about your motives and potential end result for both of these relationships. Why are you with either one? Where do you see it going? Where do THEY see it going? Then decide from there what next steps should be.


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## TooNice

Dating question for the group:
What are your approaches woth online dating in terms of multi-dating? I had two first meetings in this past week, and have a couple more that may happen soon. I liked both men I saw, and they have both asked to schedule second dates. 

One has a red flag in the fact that he is 51 and not only has never been married, but his longest relationships have been about 6 months. But he brought it up and even joked about it a little. He seems a bit of a loner, while I am an extremely social person. He's got many other great qualities, and I really would like to find out more about him. (Except one friend told me to run simply because he has the same name as my ex!)

My other date was pretty great, too, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him again. 

I'm trying to branch out a bit, so both are older than I am, but not by much. They're active and heathy and fit, which is a huge plus. 

So, how have you handled this? I guess it's assumed there are others until you talk about it and decide to change that, right? That's usually my approach. Should I table more first meetings until I figure these two out? Or is there no harm in one more coffee date? 

What are your experiences?


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## 3Xnocharm

TooNice said:


> Dating question for the group:
> What are your approaches woth online dating in terms of multi-dating? I had two first meetings in this past week, and have a couple more that may happen soon. I liked both men I saw, and they have both asked to schedule second dates.


I generally dont multi date. When I was doing OLD, I would maybe have two first dates in a week, most of my first dates did not move past that. But if I had someone I liked beyond a first date, that would be the only person I would interact with until he was ruled out. I just dont function that way, dating a few people at a time. 



TooNice said:


> One has a red flag in the fact that he is 51 and not only has never been married, but his longest relationships have been about 6 months. But he brought it up and even joked about it a little. He seems a bit of a loner, while I am an extremely social person. He's got many other great qualities, and I really would like to find out more about him. (Except one friend told me to run simply because he has the same name as my ex!)


This one I would rule out, track record alone is enough. 



TooNice said:


> My other date was pretty great, too, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him again.
> 
> I'm trying to branch out a bit, so both are older than I am, but not by much. They're active and heathy and fit, which is a huge plus.
> 
> So, how have you handled this? I guess it's assumed there are others until you talk about it and decide to change that, right? That's usually my approach. Should I table more first meetings until I figure these two out? Or is there no harm in one more coffee date?
> 
> What are your experiences?


If you dont mind juggling more than these two, then go for it!  I just cant and wouldnt want to. But thats just my personal preference, Im a weirdo serial monogamist! :laugh:


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## Wolf1974

TooNice said:


> Dating question for the group:
> What are your approaches woth online dating in terms of multi-dating? I had two first meetings in this past week, and have a couple more that may happen soon. I liked both men I saw, and they have both asked to schedule second dates.
> 
> One has a red flag in the fact that he is 51 and not only has never been married, but his longest relationships have been about 6 months. But he brought it up and even joked about it a little. He seems a bit of a loner, while I am an extremely social person. He's got many other great qualities, and I really would like to find out more about him. (Except one friend told me to run simply because he has the same name as my ex!)
> 
> My other date was pretty great, too, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him again.
> 
> I'm trying to branch out a bit, so both are older than I am, but not by much. They're active and heathy and fit, which is a huge plus.
> 
> So, how have you handled this? I guess it's assumed there are others until you talk about it and decide to change that, right? That's usually my approach. Should I table more first meetings until I figure these two out? Or is there no harm in one more coffee date?
> 
> What are your experiences?


I started off dating one at a time and would get frustrated to learn that the women I saw were dating multiple guys. At the time it made no sense to me and I took OLD way too personal lol. 

As I came along I realized it really is a numbers game. Most dates you go on won't work long term so you want to up your chances. So I started dating as much as I could, sometimes having 4-5 first meets a weekend..course this ebbs and flows. When I stopped taking dating so personal and just saw it as fun the pressure was off....I began having a blast. I love my GF and all but if she broke up with me tomorrow I know I would have fun again....I miss it at times.

DAging is suppose to be fun. Date however you feel most comfortable. Don't be that date who resents dating. They are the worst to be around :grin2:


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## Elizabeth001

Wolf1974 said:


> Don't be that date who resents dating. They are the worst to be around :grin2:




Im screwed...and not in a good way 


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## Wolf1974

Elizabeth001 said:


> Im screwed...and not in a good way
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't have to be. If you are frustrated just take a break for awhile. That's what I would do from time to time


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## TooNice

Wolf1974 said:


> Don't be that date who resents dating. They are the worst to be around


Makes total sense! Although, I don't resent dating. It can be fun, and you're right-it should be! It gets a little hard revisit the negative feelings toward all of the creeps you have to sift through to have a decent date or two, though!


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## Elizabeth001

Wolf1974 said:


> Don't have to be. If you are frustrated just take a break for awhile. That's what I would do from time to time




I am. I haven't dated for quite some time. I'm getting ready to buy a house and plan on directing my energy to that for the near future. Now...if I land a date while shopping at Lowes for window treatments and such, I might not turn it down 


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## Satya

I multi-dated, and was dating three guys when I met Odo. I was in the early "getting to know you" phase for two, the third I had gone on 3 dates with. 

Some of the guys did not like to know I was multi-dating (I'd tell them early on), so I told them their opinion was valid but it was a choice I'd made. I knew some of them were multi-dating as well and were pretending not to.

I don't regret my choices, I had an overall good experience dating.


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## tripad

:frown2::frown2::frown2:

Where do you people finds dates so easily ????

Maybe I should fly there and you can pass some some dates over :surprise::surprise::surprise:

Life is getting boring . But stable , steady and peaceful , no drama , which is quite good actually , having come out of a high drama ex n his clan .


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## Wolf1974

tripad said:


> :frown2::frown2::frown2:
> 
> *Where do you people finds dates so easily ??*??
> 
> Maybe I should fly there and you can pass some some dates over :surprise::surprise::surprise:
> 
> Life is getting boring . But stable , steady and peaceful , no drama , which is quite good actually , having come out of a high drama ex n his clan .


OLD. It's a great way to meet people outside your normal social sphere.


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## RandomDude

TooNice said:


> RD, it sounds to me like you need to think about your motives and potential end result for both of these relationships. Why are you with either one? Where do you see it going? Where do THEY see it going? Then decide from there what next steps should be.


Well, with number 1, she's going to a warzone in a few months. There's no longer any way for someone of her trade to get a working visa, she has to study for a visa, she will not. She also has family who needs her back home, bombs and bullets all, so... we don't have a future and already concluded that our relationship no longer bears commitment. Number 2 is a new romantic interest, and right now just slow and steady, as I can't get what I want from number 1. They both know of each other, number 1 is aware of where we stand, number 2 is aware I have a number 1, and we're not sleeping together.

It's a little messed up, but meh... sh-t happens >.<


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## TheGoodGuy

Ugh RD.. that sounds exhausting. If there is no future with #1 and you both know it, why not amicably go your separate ways and either be single for a while or give it a go with #2? 

Then again I've never been much for multi dating. When I'm in a relationship I'm 100% in on that one - and that is hard enough sometimes! Keeping up with multiple just sounds awful to me.


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## RandomDude

We should, we tried, she broke it off then came back. I couldn't let her go either. I don't think I have a future with number 2 either, she falls short of a test that number 1 passed. I think she'll get the hint sooner or later. Regardless in a way she helps remind me the end of the world isn't nigh. Ironic really, I'm choosing the woman who's about to leave me in a few months over a woman who's local.

I confess, I also offered number 1 my financial support, I'm willing to fund her fees for study and accommodation for another year if she just gets the student visa. It's alot cheaper to get the marriage visa but I'm not going to make such a commitment again unless I'm ready (I was pushed to marry due to circumstance before - never again!!!) She rejected it, was insulted and flattered at the same time, flattered that I showed that I cared and willing to make the sacrifices, insulted that I thought I could "buy" her, says she can't accept that, as well as her reasons for going back for family.

So, no go, she's made her decision. We are just enjoying what little time we have left. Someone should invent a teleport device now so we wouldn't have this problem!


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## RandomDude

So... did number 2 a favor with my car, and number 1 now wants me to clean the car, especially passenger seat... (-_-) Told her nothing happened, besides it's during the day and she needed someone to drive make a few stops before her flight.

Gotta admit though, number 2 looked stunning today, like, she actually dressed up. When I first met her she was a 10/10, then after a year, a 7/10, but dressed up, 9/10. Still... she failed my test (-_-)
Number 1 got jealous, and sent me photos of what she's wearing too, also 9/10, so lol... gotta admit, from time to time all this is pretty cute.


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## FeministInPink

RD, sounds like 1 isn't ok with you seeing 2. 

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## FeministInPink

Just an update... I'm with Real Estate at kinky camp, and we're having a great time! We've wrapped up our second day, and there is much more fun to be had... if we can get our butts in gear early enough tomorrow morning, we're going to do an intro to rope bondage class tomorrow. Whee!

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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> RD, sounds like 1 isn't ok with you seeing 2.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well she knows what to do... *ring ring* "RD, I decided to stay with you and get the visa"


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Just an update... I'm with Real Estate at kinky camp, and we're having a great time! We've wrapped up our second day, and there is much more fun to be had... if we can get our butts in gear early enough tomorrow morning, we're going to do an intro to rope bondage class tomorrow. Whee!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


What is kinky camp is that a real thing?


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## FeministInPink

Just got home from camp. We had an amazing time. And it's such a good bonding experience for us. It seems Real Estate is starting to feel a desire to move forward with me, but he's still holding himself back. Even so, he took some good steps forward this week. Slow but steady progress.

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## Elizabeth001

MovingForward said:


> What is kinky camp is that a real thing?




Hahaaaa! You are like a new born babe with eyes all a wonder @MovingForward. 

It's like you're getting all of your holidays at one time! 

Merry Christmas dude 


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## MovingForward

Elizabeth001 said:


> Hahaaaa! You are like a new born babe with eyes all a wonder @MovingForward.
> 
> It's like you're getting all of your holidays at one time!
> 
> Merry Christmas dude
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes haha just exploring options and keeping my eyes open. Have not been single for a long time so living through other peoples excitement currently. :grin2:


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## Elizabeth001

I see that. You're like a kid at the candy counter. Hahaaa!


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## Elizabeth001

Btw...welcome to the thread. Now you can be a SOT like the rest of us 


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> What is kinky camp is that a real thing?


Yes, it is! They are organized by kink/BDSM groups, and group usually rents out a camp facility/venue for the event. While the camp facility/venue itself isn't a BDSM facility (it's just a regular camp/venue), the owners and staff have to be kink-positive. So, for example, the site for this particular camp event which I attended tends to host a lot of these events... word gets around in the community which facilities are kink-positive.

To make an event like this happen, it requires a great big collaborative community effort. Participants/attendees will agree to loan their personal dungeon equipment/furniture for the event; experts in various skills/techniques volunteer their time to teach workshops and lead sessions; setting up and running the event takes a small army and months of advance planning.

The camp that I just attended is, to the best of my knowledge, one of the largest events of its kind, with 1200+ attendees. But I know of other similar events that happen on the west coast and in the Midwest. For the camp I just attended, people fly in from all over the world! Real Estate and I are lucky that we only have to drive a few hours.

Kinky camp runs the gamut as far as "what you're into" is concerned. There is something for everyone, regardless of your kink. (We do draw the line, however, at things like bestiality, pedophilia, rape/non-consentual anything, etc. There are certain things, even within the kink community, that are considered unhealthy and wrong, and not to mention illegal.) There are technique workshops, covering topics like bondage, flogging, sensual domination, spiritual connection, orgasm denial (or edging), fire play, negotiation, how to meet/interact with new partners... the list goes on and on. And then there are fun and sometimes silly activities like a Hamilton sing-along, an ice cream snowball fight, a slip-n-slide, things like that. In the evening, there are special events, like fire shows and rope/rigging shows. Every night there's a mixer/party with a DJ down at the pool, and several groups set up their own bars, which are free and open to all attendees. There are vendors selling any type of equipment you might need (attended a flogging workshop, and now you want to buy your own flogger? Broke your cane in an intense scene? Didn't bring enough rope? There's a vendor for that). And, of course, there is a 24-hour dungeon.

It's a Choose Your Own Adventure type of camp--you pick and choose what you want to do and what type of experience you want to have.

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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Yes, it is! They are organized by kink/BDSM groups, and group usually rents out a camp facility/venue for the event. While the camp facility/venue itself isn't a BDSM facility (it's just a regular camp/venue), the owners and staff have to be kink-positive. So, for example, the site for this particular camp event which I attended tends to host a lot of these events... word gets around in the community which facilities are kink-positive.
> 
> To make an event like this happen, it requires a great big collaborative community effort. Participants/attendees will agree to loan their personal dungeon equipment/furniture for the event; experts in various skills/techniques volunteer their time to teach workshops and lead sessions; setting up and running the event takes a small army and months of advance planning.
> 
> The camp that I just attended is, to the best of my knowledge, one of the largest events of its kind, with 1200+ attendees. But I know of other similar events that happen on the west coast and in the Midwest. For the camp I just attended, people fly in from all over the world! Real Estate and I are lucky that we only have to drive a few hours.
> 
> Kinky camp runs the gamut as far as "what you're into" is concerned. There is something for everyone, regardless of your kink. (We do draw the line, however, at things like bestiality, pedophilia, rape/non-consentual anything, etc. There are certain things, even within the kink community, that are considered unhealthy and wrong, and not to mention illegal.) There are technique workshops, covering topics like bondage, flogging, sensual domination, spiritual connection, orgasm denial (or edging), fire play, negotiation, how to meet/interact with new partners... the list goes on and on. And then there are fun and sometimes silly activities like a Hamilton sing-along, an ice cream snowball fight, a slip-n-slide, things like that. In the evening, there are special events, like fire shows and rope/rigging shows. Every night there's a mixer/party with a DJ down at the pool, and several groups set up their own bars, which are free and open to all attendees. There are vendors selling any type of equipment you might need (attended a flogging workshop, and now you want to buy your own flogger? Broke your cane in an intense scene? Didn't bring enough rope? There's a vendor for that). And, of course, there is a 24-hour dungeon.
> 
> It's a Choose Your Own Adventure type of camp--you pick and choose what you want to do and what type of experience you want to have.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well you learn something new everyday!

Sounds like a lot of fun maybe something for me to look into in the future. :smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Well you learn something new everyday!
> 
> Sounds like a lot of fun maybe something for me to look into in the future. :smthumbup:


Well, I wouldn't jump into camp without getting some experience in the scene first. Camp can be pretty intense. I can give you some tips for getting into it, if you're interested in BDSM/kink.


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## Elizabeth001

Well I just found out on Friday that I'm getting laid off from my job of 21 years as of September 1. This is one of those times that being single sucks. Not especially the money part but the emotional stress of it all. I really loved my job. Not necessarily the ******** I work with but I loved what I did. Anyone need a carriage decorator and ace sign painter? Oy vey 


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## TheGoodGuy

That sucks Elizabeth. Sorry to hear that. Is the company downsizing?


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## Elizabeth001

More like outsourcing. I will be hired by the contractor for 1 year minimum and I may or may not stay with them, depending on how it goes or if I have a different/better opportunity. I will also receive a weeks pay for each year I worked there as severance but that's pretty much a payoff to keep my mouth shut. They definitely covered all of their bases. 

I know we discuss getting back into the dating field around 50, but getting back into the job market at 48 has my knees shaking. Especially since my experience is catered to such a specialized position. 

I'm scared sh1tless. 


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## Elizabeth001

At the same time I was in the process of buying a house 2 miles from work. How about that shat?  


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> At the same time I was in the process of buying a house 2 miles from work. How about that shat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ugh, that happened to me and my first husband, we had a contract on a house right before we got married, and he got laid off from his job... sucks for sure, Im sorry you're dealing with this! 

I lost my job two years ago, within the same six months that both my mom and stepdad passed away, these thing always have awesome timing! Its good you have a year though and will get severance. I know its still scary as hell tho.


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## Elizabeth001

I'm still buying the house. It has an apartment in the back that will cover 3/4 of the mortgage payment. 

I'll bounce back but as of right now, I'm still in shock. 


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> *I'm still buying the house. It has an apartment in the back that will cover 3/4 of the mortgage payment.
> *
> I'll bounce back but as of right now, I'm still in shock.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, this is great! Good for you!


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## Elizabeth001

Yeah. I'm not a religious person but consider myself spiritual. I think someone must be looking out for me 


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## FeministInPink

@Elizabeth001 I'm in the same boat, but without the house. My last day at work will be this Friday. 

This is actually in my best interest, though. They offered me a good severance package, and I hated my job and my boss anyway, so I'm happy to go. And now I have the financial cushion to do it. I'm looking forward to taking some time for myself, which I haven't done, like, EVER... and I have 6 months to find something, but I think I'll find something earlier than that.

Good luck with your job hunt.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> @Elizabeth001 I'm in the same boat, but without the house. My last day at work will be this Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually in my best interest, though. They offered me a good severance package, and I hated my job and my boss anyway, so I'm happy to go. And now I have the financial cushion to do it. I'm looking forward to taking some time for myself, which I haven't done, like, EVER... and I have 6 months to find something, but I think I'll find something earlier than that.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with your job hunt.




I'm sorry to hear that fip. I wish I could take some time off but the new contractor expects us to pick up where we left off and word is that they have few to zero benefits. I do have quite a bit of vacation time accrued with my current job and plan to take at least two weeks when I close on the house. THAT I am looking forward to. 

Hoping the best for you too! 
XOXO!


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## MovingForward

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well I just found out on Friday that I'm getting laid off from my job of 21 years as of September 1. This is one of those times that being single sucks. Not especially the money part but the emotional stress of it all. I really loved my job. Not necessarily the ******** I work with but I loved what I did. Anyone need a carriage decorator and ace sign painter? Oy vey
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear that, hopefully it works out well in the long term. I got forced out a Job 8 years ago as they lost there contract and reduced hours and pay so no one would claim unemployment and my XW got laid of at same time and was pregnant so it forced us to move to a different state but it turned out to be the best thing, I progressed in new Job/career and within 2 years was making 2 times what I made in my old career, lower cost of living, better weather, better schools for children, better benefits etc. Hoping something similar works out for you. 

It is rough having to take on everything alone when you have been so used to having a partner.


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I'm sorry to hear that fip. I wish I could take some time off but the new contractor expects us to pick up where we left off and word is that they have few to zero benefits. I do have quite a bit of vacation time accrued with my current job and plan to take at least two weeks when I close on the house. THAT I am looking forward to.
> 
> Hoping the best for you too!
> XOXO!


Thanks! I recognize that I am very lucky with the way my personal situation worked out; I know others who have lost their jobs and weren't so fortunate.


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> @Elizabeth001 I'm in the same boat, but without the house. My last day at work will be this Friday.
> 
> This is actually in my best interest, though. They offered me a good severance package, and I hated my job and my boss anyway, so I'm happy to go. And now I have the financial cushion to do it. I'm looking forward to taking some time for myself, which I haven't done, like, EVER... and I have 6 months to find something, but I think I'll find something earlier than that.
> 
> Good luck with your job hunt.


I didnt know, this, sorry/not sorry, lol! I know you didnt like your job, but still scary to be without one!


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I didnt know, this, sorry/not sorry, lol! I know you didnt like your job, but still scary to be without one!


No worries! I mentioned it in another thread, but I haven't really publicized it. It's a little scary, but I got a good severance package that will take care of me through the new year. I'll be fine.


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## RandomDude

Strange... forum was down for me like... all week =/


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Strange... forum was down for me like... all week =/


That's weird... But I guess it happens sometimes? I just haven't been on much lately.

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## FeministInPink

In other news, I had my last day of work yesterday! It's funny, talking around with other people at work (a few of whom know the real circumstances of my departure, most of whom don't), the universal consensus is that my boss doesn't appreciate me and the value that I brought to the organization. I had countless offers of references and other means of assistance in my job search. Numerous alumni expressed dismay at my departure, noting that it's one of several ways the org is changing in a way they don't agree with.

And I was overwhelmed by the outpouring of love and support from friends and family on Facebook. Overwhelmed.

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## TooNice

Hey all. I've been popping in and reading up, but haven't had much time to post replies. I"m sending out good thoughts to you, though! 

Things here are good. I've had some good time with my son on a few weekends he has come home, and things with the ex-BF are good. I can tell he still has feelings for me, but we meet every so often to catch up and talk as friends. Work is going to prove to be a challenge in the coming months, but I will face it and do what needs to be done. I just hope I can manage that while balancing training for a marathon. I'm hoping the training will help keep me sane for the work part!

I've had a few dates, too - I even have a third date scheduled with someone for next weekend. I have a second date today with someone. I liked him on our first date, but he does not have much LTR experience, and I'm afraid I'm having trouble with that. He made a joke of it when he told me - even pointed it out himself as a red flag! There are other things, too, but I liked him enough to give it a second date. I made it pretty casual, though - we are meeting in the early afternoon for a local music festival for just a couple of hours. I honestly have a ton of work to do today, so I told him I'll need to get home to that. 

Of course, last night, the OTHER guy asked me if I wanted to go to a specific artist later tonight at he same festival - lol. They don't start until 10:00, though - I had to decline that, but I made a suggestion for another event next weekend. 

Anyway - hope you are all well!


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## TooNice

Oh boy... my plan was to see this man today for our second date, kind of expecting to be able to end my time with him and be comfortable breaking it off. It didn't work that way. 

He's very relaxed and easy to hang out with, and I really had a nice time. So I have a third date scheduled with Man #1, and Man #2 would really like to schedule our third date. In my dating time thus far, I have not encountered this dilemma to this extent. I really like both of them, and would love to get to know them both better. If I had met either of them with no one else in the picture, I would be perfectly happy to move forward and see where things go. 

Any advice?


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## 3Xnocharm

Well... do you feel that certain "spark" with either of them? (or both?) Or are you getting more of a friendly, hang-out kind of vibe from either/both? I personally havent had this dilemma, lol, but I would say to concentrate on whoever you feel that special click with the most.


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## TooNice

3Xnocharm said:


> Well... do you feel that certain "spark" with either of them? (or both?) Or are you getting more of a friendly, hang-out kind of vibe from either/both? I personally havent had this dilemma, lol, but I would say to concentrate on whoever you feel that special click with the most.


That's the thing... I definitely click with both of them. And I'm fairly comfortable saying I think it's mutual. They were the ones to bring up seeing each other again - before the second dates ended. I can't really complain about this... but I want to be sure I handle it well.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> In other news, I had my last day of work yesterday! It's funny, talking around with other people at work (a few of whom know the real circumstances of my departure, most of whom don't), the universal consensus is that my boss doesn't appreciate me and the value that I brought to the organization. I had countless offers of references and other means of assistance in my job search. Numerous alumni expressed dismay at my departure, noting that it's one of several ways the org is changing in a way they don't agree with.
> 
> And I was overwhelmed by the outpouring of love and support from friends and family on Facebook. Overwhelmed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I'm beginning to wonder if we work for the same company. lol 


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## Bananapeel

Hi Guys! I have a bit of a quandary on my hands. I've been casually dating a woman for about 8 months now and she's dropped some subtle hints that she might be thinking about us having a little more commitment or at least defining the relationship. She really cute, easy going, a blast to spend time with, and we have amazing chemistry. She knows I have no interest in getting married or having any more kids and she feels the same way. So then, is there really a point to having a higher level of commitment? I think my concern is that if the relationship isn't going to progress along a very serious path because neither of us wants another marriage (or even to live with someone), is that a good type of relationship to model in front of the kids? We haven't met each others kids yet. I feel like I'm trying to walk a very fine line. Either we end up defining the relationship as "boyfriend-girlfriend" that isn't going to progress to something more substantial or we keep the relationship casual without titles or commitment. I'm not sure that either of those is modeling a healthy relationship to my kids.


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if we work for the same company. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We might, if we lived in the same area... It's a pretty large organization. Largest private employer in its home state (I work outside its home state). 

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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> That's the thing... I definitely click with both of them. And I'm fairly comfortable saying I think it's mutual. They were the ones to bring up seeing each other again - before the second dates ended. I can't really complain about this... but I want to be sure I handle it well.


Go on the third date with both. Don't allow either to press you for exclusivity if you're not ready... after all, it's only been three dates each. 

I would say, keep seeing both of them until one becomes a frontrunner and he expresses that he wants to see you exclusively.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> We might, if we lived in the same area... It's a pretty large organization. Largest private employer in its home state (I work outside its home state).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Mine is a non-profit. Which means a lot of people sucking a$$. Which in turn screws me because I've never been much of a suck up :/

Oy 


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> That's the thing... I definitely click with both of them. And I'm fairly comfortable saying I think it's mutual. They were the ones to bring up seeing each other again - before the second dates ended. I can't really complain about this... but I want to be sure I handle it well.




Feel free to pass along your leftovers 


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> Hi Guys! I have a bit of a quandary on my hands. I've been casually dating a woman for about 8 months now and she's dropped some subtle hints that she might be thinking about us having a little more commitment or at least defining the relationship. She really cute, easy going, a blast to spend time with, and we have amazing chemistry. She knows I have no interest in getting married or having any more kids and she feels the same way. So then, is there really a point to having a higher level of commitment? I think my concern is that if the relationship isn't going to progress along a very serious path because neither of us wants another marriage (or even to live with someone), is that a good type of relationship to model in front of the kids? We haven't met each others kids yet. I feel like I'm trying to walk a very fine line. Either we end up defining the relationship as "boyfriend-girlfriend" that isn't going to progress to something more substantial or we keep the relationship casual without titles or commitment. I'm not sure that either of those is modeling a healthy relationship to my kids.


You sound like Real Estate 

Look, if she's ok with the fact that you don't want to get married or have a live-in girlfriend, that's fine. But if she's going to stick around, she's still going to want some kind of commitment. 

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## Bananapeel

FIP, I was thinking as much. My post-D experience so far has been that women will pretty much do what I want in a relationship because they don't want me to bail. However, I'd hate for her to feel like she doesn't have a voice and that I'm oblivious to her attempts at communicating with me. I'll broach the subject with her and get her opinion on it. Maybe I'll be lucky and she'll be OK keeping things as they are.


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> FIP, I was thinking as much. My post-D experience so far has been that women will pretty much do what I want in a relationship because they don't want me to bail. However, I'd hate for her to feel like she doesn't have a voice and that I'm oblivious to her attempts at communicating with me. I'll broach the subject with her and get her opinion on it. Maybe I'll be lucky and she'll be OK keeping things as they are.


Those are some weak women, I have to say. Maybe desperate? From my POV with Real Estate, I realized that for us to have a relationship, I needed to accept him where he is right now. And he is as committed to me as he is capable at this point in time. Which works for us, because while I do want to get married again someday, I'm also trepidatious about it, so I'm happy for that to be off the table right now. For me, this may be the first HEALTHY relationship I've been in. Maybe for him, too. And I just want to focus on that right now.

I might not be ok with this arrangement forever, but I'm happy with it now, and for the foreseeable/immediate future. You never know what is going to happen down the road. Everything can change in an instant.

I would say, make sure that she understands what you do and don't want, and make sure that she isn't thinking she can change your mind about what you want.

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## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> Hi Guys! I have a bit of a quandary on my hands. I've been casually dating a woman for about 8 months now and she's dropped some subtle hints that she might be thinking about us having a little more commitment or at least defining the relationship. She really cute, easy going, a blast to spend time with, and we have amazing chemistry. She knows I have no interest in getting married or having any more kids and she feels the same way. So then, is there really a point to having a higher level of commitment? I think my concern is that if the relationship isn't going to progress along a very serious path because neither of us wants another marriage (or even to live with someone), is that a good type of relationship to model in front of the kids? We haven't met each others kids yet. I feel like I'm trying to walk a very fine line. Either we end up defining the relationship as "boyfriend-girlfriend" that isn't going to progress to something more substantial or we keep the relationship casual without titles or commitment. I'm not sure that either of those is modeling a healthy relationship to my kids.


Just because you dont want marriage in the future doesnt mean you cant have a committed, long term relationship with someone. (I would love to find my forever person, but dont ever care to get married again...maybe someday but it isnt my goal) Sounds to me like you just dont want a real relationship or commitment at all. That isnt fair to the woman you are dating to not just say so. I know you feel you've been honest by telling her that you dont want marriage or kids,but the reality is what you want is NO commitment. I apologize if I am wrong, but this is how I am reading it.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Just because you dont want marriage in the future doesnt mean you cant have a committed, long term relationship with someone. (I would love to find my forever person, but dont ever care to get married again...maybe someday but it isnt my goal) Sounds to me like you just dont want a real relationship or commitment at all. That isnt fair to the woman you are dating to not just say so. I know you feel you've been honest by telling her that you dont want marriage or kids,but the reality is what you want is NO commitment. I apologize if I am wrong, but this is how I am reading it.


 @3Xnocharm makes a really good point. If you REALLY don't want ANY kind of commitment, you need to make sure she understands that. If she wants a commitment, then that also means that this is probably the end of the road with her.

The truth is, you're going to have a hard time finding any woman who will be happy with long term casual relationship. In my personal experience, in my entire life I've only known two women who are like this. One is a friend I've known since childhood, and she is literally unable to attach to anyone because of childhood trauma. We hang out every few months, and we always enjoy one another's company, but I know that I could drift out of her life entirely and while she might notice, it would have no impact on her emotionally. The other I knew several years ago, and she just enjoyed doing her own thing so much that she never wanted to be tied down to anyone. She was always dating several men at once, and never dated any one man for any extended period of time.


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## Bananapeel

FeministInPink said:


> Those are some weak women, I have to say. Maybe desperate?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I can see where you'd come to that conclusion, but it's actually not that way at all. The women I date all have their lives together and are all quite attractive so they can find other guys if they wanted. I just date differently than most other men which allows the women to treat me differently. Basically, I enjoy planning and taking care of everything on the dates. My goal is for the women to just relax and have a good time without worrying about anything. It's such a nice change compared to the rest of their lives that they try to reciprocate and keep me happy. 



3Xnocharm said:


> Just because you dont want marriage in the future doesnt mean you cant have a committed, long term relationship with someone. (I would love to find my forever person, but dont ever care to get married again...maybe someday but it isnt my goal) Sounds to me like you just dont want a real relationship or commitment at all. That isnt fair to the woman you are dating to not just say so. I know you feel you've been honest by telling her that you dont want marriage or kids,but the reality is what you want is NO commitment. I apologize if I am wrong, but this is how I am reading it.


Relationships are a lot more complex post-D and post-kids, since the goal for me is not to have a new family. I'm always honest and open with the women I date and I can't imagine any would think otherwise. If I come off as not wanting any level of commitment, then maybe I need to address that internally. 



FeministInPink said:


> @3Xnocharm makes a really good point. If you REALLY don't want ANY kind of commitment, you need to make sure she understands that. If she wants a commitment, then that also means that this is probably the end of the road with her.
> 
> The truth is, you're going to have a hard time finding any woman who will be happy with long term casual relationship. In my personal experience, in my entire life I've only known two women who are like this. One is a friend I've known since childhood, and she is literally unable to attach to anyone because of childhood trauma. We hang out every few months, and we always enjoy one another's company, but I know that I could drift out of her life entirely and while she might notice, it would have no impact on her emotionally. The other I knew several years ago, and she just enjoyed doing her own thing so much that she never wanted to be tied down to anyone. She was always dating several men at once, and never dated any one man for any extended period of time.


You might be right. I guess I'll keep an ear out and when I feel like she is suggesting we get more committed I'll engage her in conversation about it and get her to open up and tell me exactly what it is that she wants. Then we can discuss it and see if it is the right path forward for both of us.


----------



## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> I can see where you'd come to that conclusion, but it's actually not that way at all. The women I date all have their lives together and are all quite attractive so they can find other guys if they wanted. I just date differently than most other men which allows the women to treat me differently. Basically, I enjoy planning and taking care of everything on the dates. My goal is for the women to just relax and have a good time without worrying about anything. It's such a nice change compared to the rest of their lives that they try to reciprocate and keep me happy.


Ah, I see. I think that's what a lot of women want out of a relationship. It's certainly what I prefer.

I retract my earlier statement, given this clarification 


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## Bananapeel

FIP - Funny thing is that I don't think most men have figured that out yet.


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## FeministInPink

bananapeel said:


> fip - funny thing is that i don't think most men have figured that out yet.


SO TRUE!!!

ETA: Even Real Estate, who is pretty good at this, will sometimes persist with, "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and insist that I need to have an opinion on the matter. I'm like, dude, I DO NOT CARE I AM EXHAUSTED AND HUNGRY AS LONG AS IT IS EDIBLE I WILL BE HAPPY.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Bananapeel said:


> FIP - Funny thing is that I don't think most men have figured that out yet.




XH drove me crazy with this. Could NOT make a plan for us. Not for sex (which he didn't want anyway), not for dinner, not for something to do in our free time, not even what to watch on friggin tv. Waited for me to make any and all plans. I SO do not miss him. I guess he's happy now being able to sit and stare at the tv in his little apartment all the time. Good for him. And YAY for me. lol 


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## hope4family

FeministInPink said:


> SO TRUE!!!
> 
> ETA: Even Real Estate, who is pretty good at this, will sometimes persist with, "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and insist that I need to have an opinion on the matter. I'm like, dude, I DO NOT CARE I AM EXHAUSTED AND HUNGRY AS LONG AS IT IS EDIBLE I WILL BE HAPPY.


My mantra. 

Always have a plan. If you say Cuban food and she says Thai, Then go get Thai. 

I do need to work on it more.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Bananapeel said:


> I can see where you'd come to that conclusion, but it's actually not that way at all. The women I date all have their lives together and are all quite attractive so they can find other guys if they wanted. I just date differently than most other men which allows the women to treat me differently. Basically, I enjoy planning and taking care of everything on the dates. My goal is for the women to just relax and have a good time without worrying about anything. It's such a nice change compared to the rest of their lives that they try to reciprocate and keep me happy.


See, but this is the kind of thing that a lot of us WANT in a serious, long term partner. Doing this kind of thing endears you to a woman, and makes you that much more attractive as a potential life mate. I foresee a lot of broken hearts in your future. It isnt fair to do things that will make a woman fall in love with you while at the same time telling her you dont want anything serious or committed.


----------



## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> See, but this is the kind of thing that a lot of us WANT in a serious, long term partner. Doing this kind of thing endears you to a woman, and makes you that much more attractive as a potential life mate. I foresee a lot of broken hearts in your future. It isnt fair to do things that will make a woman fall in love with you while at the same time telling her you dont want anything serious or committed.




True that. Plus there are children in the mix. 


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## Bananapeel

3Xnocharm said:


> See, but this is the kind of thing that a lot of us WANT in a serious, long term partner. Doing this kind of thing endears you to a woman, and makes you that much more attractive as a potential life mate. I foresee a lot of broken hearts in your future. It isnt fair to do things that will make a woman fall in love with you while at the same time telling her you dont want anything serious or committed.


Thanks for sharing your perspective. Much appreciated!


@Elizabeth001 - The children are what complicates things on my end too. They change my focus and puts dating as a less important event in my life.


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## Elizabeth001

Bananapeel said:


> Thanks for sharing your perspective. Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> @Elizabeth001 - The children are what complicates things on my end too. They change my focus and puts dating as a less important event in my life.




Dating may have to take a backseat until they're grown. Been there done that. You know it's sad but true.

Apologies for the Metallica lyrics. LOL


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## moco82

Dating post-divorce with younger children is very tiring. Yet, as was said in this or another threat, you will inevitably have more sex in your first year of freedom than probably during your entire marriage.


----------



## FeministInPink

moco82 said:


> Dating post-divorce with younger children is very tiring. Yet, as was said in this or another threat, you will inevitably have more sex in your first year of freedom than probably during your entire marriage.


I had more sex in the first two months of dating than I had in my entire marriage, LOL 

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## MovingForward

moco82 said:


> Dating post-divorce with younger children is very tiring. Yet, as was said in this or another threat, you will inevitably have more sex in your first year of freedom than probably during your entire marriage.





FeministInPink said:


> I had more sex in the first two months of dating than I had in my entire marriage, LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Still hoping.................... :wink2:


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## Bananapeel

FeministInPink said:


> I had more sex in the first two months of dating than I had in my entire marriage, LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It's way less for me since I only have time in my schedule to date once a week. But at least the anticipation and intensity are much higher with the diminished frequency. Last weekend was truly amazing and concluded with an around the world tour (i.e. a little bit of everything) that was so good that I'm still thinking about it. I really need more free time in my schedule!


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> It's way less for me since I only have time in my schedule to date once a week. But at least the anticipation and intensity are much higher with the diminished frequency. Last weekend was truly amazing and concluded with an around the world tour (i.e. a little bit of everything) that was so good that I'm still thinking about it. I really need more free time in my schedule!


One of the benefits of not having kids. The first guys I dated also didn't have kids, which was convenient.

I dated a few men that had kids, and considering that I don't want kids, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle, since I could never get serious with a man who has children, at least not young children.

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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Feel free to pass along your leftovers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha! They are both really great men!


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Look, if she's ok with the fact that you don't want to get married or have a live-in girlfriend, that's fine. But if she's going to stick around, she's still going to want some kind of commitment.


Agreed!


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> SO TRUE!!!
> 
> ETA: Even Real Estate, who is pretty good at this, will sometimes persist with, "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and insist that I need to have an opinion on the matter. I'm like, dude, I DO NOT CARE I AM EXHAUSTED AND HUNGRY AS LONG AS IT IS EDIBLE I WILL BE HAPPY.


OMG this is SO true. When I was married, I often truly did not have an opinion. I love food and most of the time I am happy to find something anywhere. 

That said, on the occasions when I did voice an opinion, we always ended up somewhere else anyway. But he'd still be irritated when I didn't have one. Sigh. Life is so much better now - lol!


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## TooNice

Ok gang. I have now had three dates with both men. And I STILL like them both!

Someone had suggested to me to ask my son, since our kids usually do have an opinion. He hasn't met either, obviously. I was at brunch today with him and four of his friends (3 females, 1 male). So... we discussed it - lol.

They solidly agree that the life experience gap between my 20+ year marriage and #1's six month relationships is a bit much. They do NOT like that he shares the same name as my ex... as well as working in the same industry. (My son came right out and nixed that, as a matter of fact! "Mom... you cannot date someone with those things in common. You just can't.")

They really like that #2 has kids still in high school. They like that he bucked the corporate world to his own company, which is doing well. They loved that he plans to winter in warmer climate ("Mom - really? He also wants to ditch the cold? Why are you thinking about this?") 

One of the girls asked a few good questions. She wanted me to tell her what about #1 made him stay in the running to begin with. She felt that there was clearly something, which is true. I feel calm and relaxed with him in a way I can't quite explain. But lots of other things are challenging, but not deal breakers, so I wanted to ride it out. My son's male friend wanted to know who I laugh with more. That would easily be #2. 

So, the advice of five 20-21 year olds is that I go with #2 - lol. I wish I could date them both longer, but I am really getting uncomfortable dragging out much longer than this. I saw #2 last night, and he's heading out of town on Thursday... and I am leaving town before he gets back. He would very much like to see me before he leaves. I feel like I need to make a decision now. 

And on that note, if I do choose one (well, #2), I probably need to make a phone call and break things off. How honest should I be? Is it ok to say that I started dating someone else the same week as him and I just feel that we have more in common? After three dates do I call or text? 

After so many sub-par dating options, I still can't believe this is even a situation I am in...


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> Ok gang. I have now had three dates with both men. And I STILL like them both!
> 
> 
> 
> Someone had suggested to me to ask my son, since our kids usually do have an opinion. He hasn't met either, obviously. I was at brunch today with him and four of his friends (3 females, 1 male). So... we discussed it - lol.
> 
> 
> 
> They solidly agree that the life experience gap between my 20+ year marriage and #1's six month relationships is a bit much. They do NOT like that he shares the same name as my ex... as well as working in the same industry. (My son came right out and nixed that, as a matter of fact! "Mom... you cannot date someone with those things in common. You just can't.")
> 
> 
> 
> They really like that #2 has kids still in high school. They like that he bucked the corporate world to his own company, which is doing well. They loved that he plans to winter in warmer climate ("Mom - really? He also wants to ditch the cold? Why are you thinking about this?")
> 
> 
> 
> One of the girls asked a few good questions. She wanted me to tell her what about #1 made him stay in the running to begin with. She felt that there was clearly something, which is true. I feel calm and relaxed with him in a way I can't quite explain. But lots of other things are challenging, but not deal breakers, so I wanted to ride it out. My son's male friend wanted to know who I laugh with more. That would easily be #2.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the advice of five 20-21 year olds id that I go with #2 - lol. I wish I could date them both longer, but I am really getting uncomfortable dragging out much longer than this. I saw #2 last night, and he's heading out of town on Thursday... and I am leaving town before he gets back. He would very much like to see me before he leaves. I feel like I need to make a decision now.
> 
> 
> 
> And on that note, if I do choose one (well, #2), I probably need to make a phone call and break things off. How honest should I be? Is it ok to say that I started dating someone else the same week as him and I just feel that we have more in common? After three dates do I call or text?
> 
> 
> 
> After so many sub-par dating options, I still can't believe this is even a situation I am in...




Those youngins are smart. I'd pick door #2 as well and also from the vibe I'm getting from your post. Laughter is SO important!!

As for the other fella, I'd probably vote for a phone call and total honesty. OTOH, if it were me, I would still be honest but probably be too chickensh1t to call and just send a text. 

Keep us posted!


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice Here is what you do. There is no need to make a special call to Bachelor #1 to end things. When he calls you, because he will want to see you again, you politely decline and tell him that you've enjoyed his company, but you don't see it going anywhere with him. Don't add insult to injury by telling him you've chosen someone else. It's unnecessary, and none of his business.

Regarding Bachelor #2, when you see him, don't be like, "You're the winner! I choose you!" That puts too much pressure on a guy after just a few dates. DO call him up and say that you would love to get together before you both go out of town. And when you do see him, and the end of the date tell him that you're looking forward to seeing him again when he gets back from his trip. That tells him that you want to continue seeing him; if he's into it, he will call you as soon as he gets back, maybe even while he's gone.

And just take it from there. Let him bring up exclusivity when he's ready, even though you've already decided that he's your pick.

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice Here is what you do. There is no need to make a special call to Bachelor #1 to end things. When he calls you, because he will want to see you again, you politely decline and tell him that you've enjoyed his company, but you don't see it going anywhere with him. Don't add insult to injury by telling him you've chosen someone else. It's unnecessary, and none of his business.
> 
> Regarding Bachelor #2, when you see him, don't be like, "You're the winner! I choose you!" That puts too much pressure on a guy after just a few dates. DO call him up and say that you would love to get together before you both go out of town. And when you do see him, and the end of the date tell him that you're looking forward to seeing him again when he gets back from his trip. That tells him that you want to continue seeing him; if he's into it, he will call you as soon as he gets back, maybe even while he's gone.
> 
> And just take it from there. Let him bring up exclusivity when he's ready, even though you've already decided that he's your pick.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Fip...you are so awesome. I love this!!


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Fip...you are so awesome. I love this!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks 

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## ne9907

@TooNice I am happy for you~


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice Here is what you do. There is no need to make a special call to Bachelor #1 to end things. When he calls you, because he will want to see you again, you politely decline and tell him that you've enjoyed his company, but you don't see it going anywhere with him. Don't add insult to injury by telling him you've chosen someone else. It's unnecessary, and none of his business.
> 
> Regarding Bachelor #2, when you see him, don't be like, "You're the winner! I choose you!" That puts too much pressure on a guy after just a few dates. DO call him up and say that you would love to get together before you both go out of town. And when you do see him, and the end of the date tell him that you're looking forward to seeing him again when he gets back from his trip. That tells him that you want to continue seeing him; if he's into it, he will call you as soon as he gets back, maybe even while he's gone.
> 
> And just take it from there. Let him bring up exclusivity when he's ready, even though you've already decided that he's your pick.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Excellent advice, FIP - thank you! That is exactly what I did tonight, and he replied with a text that said thank you and that he enjoyed spending time with me, too. And he wished me luck on my marathon training. 

And no... I would never mention the other guy to either of them - you are right - it's none of their business. If #1 had pressed me for more info, I planned to simply tell him that he had too many background things in common with my ex - to the extent that I wouldn't feel he'd have a fair shake. True and fair. And not his fault. 

#2 and I (or does he become #1 now...?) have plans for Wednesday night. I see no need to bring anything up beyond how much I look forward to seeing him when we are both back in town. I am looking forward to enjoying our time without the distraction of the other guy!

In other news, I am hoping to get my emotional life back on track this week. My stepdaughter had her big wedding over the weekend, and I have been a bit of an emotional train wreck since my son left town yesterday. It was easy to be distracted while he was here, and to put on my brave face for him. I lost it last night, though. The session of ugly crying resulted in having to ice my face and everything this morning... not good. But I need to dust myself off and move on now. It's over. I wasn't invited. Period. But my son proved once again that I am a pretty alright mom capable of raising good humans... regardless of what my stepdaughter's issues may be. I may not understand, but she is an adult and she made a decision. I hope she never has the opportunity to realize what that felt like for me... I wouldn't wish that on anyone.


----------



## Satya

Bananapeel said:


> I can see where you'd come to that conclusion, but it's actually not that way at all. The women I date all have their lives together and are all quite attractive so they can find other guys if they wanted. I just date differently than most other men which allows the women to treat me differently. Basically, I enjoy planning and taking care of everything on the dates. My goal is for the women to just relax and have a good time without worrying about anything. It's such a nice change compared to the rest of their lives that they try to reciprocate and keep me happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Relationships are a lot more complex post-D and post-kids, since the goal for me is not to have a new family. I'm always honest and open with the women I date and I can't imagine any would think otherwise. If I come off as not wanting any level of commitment, then maybe I need to address that internally.
> 
> 
> 
> You might be right. I guess I'll keep an ear out and when I feel like she is suggesting we get more committed I'll engage her in conversation about it and get her to open up and tell me exactly what it is that she wants. Then we can discuss it and see if it is the right path forward for both of us.


A good thing to do at the start of that conversation is tell her that it's important you have her complete honesty. No matter how strong some women may seem, many of them still think they have to mold themselves for a man to keep him, even if they know he isn't completely right for them. It gets worse if the guy is a generally good man, because she will try to play the "pie game"* in her head to justify why she should twist into a pretzel to keep you. 

A good way for her to keep her own interests genuine is for you to outwardly acknowledge and "encourage" her honesty about what she wants. Set the stage. 

*Pie Game = trying to decide whether to keep the whole pie (stay with someone) if 20% of the pie is inedible while 80% is delicious. You accept the whole pie or none. Decision depends on factors such as, is the 20% negotiable or non-negotiable?


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## Bananapeel

I've never heard of the pie game, but love the analogy!


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## sosotte

TooNice said:


> Excellent advice, FIP - thank you! That is exactly what I did tonight, and he replied with a text that said thank you and that he enjoyed spending time with me, too. And he wished me luck on my marathon training.
> 
> 
> 
> And no... I would never mention the other guy to either of them - you are right - it's none of their business. If #1 had pressed me for more info, I planned to simply tell him that he had too many background things in common with my ex - to the extent that I wouldn't feel he'd have a fair shake. True and fair. And not his fault.
> 
> 
> 
> #2 and I (or does he become #1 now...?) have plans for Wednesday night. I see no need to bring anything up beyond how much I look forward to seeing him when we are both back in town. I am looking forward to enjoying our time without the distraction of the other guy!
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, I am hoping to get my emotional life back on track this week. My stepdaughter had her big wedding over the weekend, and I have been a bit of an emotional train wreck since my son left town yesterday. It was easy to be distracted while he was here, and to put on my brave face for him. I lost it last night, though. The session of ugly crying resulted in having to ice my face and everything this morning... not good. But I need to dust myself off and move on now. It's over. I wasn't invited. Period. But my son proved once again that I am a pretty alright mom capable of raising good humans... regardless of what my stepdaughter's issues may be. I may not understand, but she is an adult and she made a decision. I hope she never has the opportunity to realize what that felt like for me... I wouldn't wish that on anyone.




Where do you meet guys TooNice?


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## TooNice

These two were from Tinder and *******.


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## Hope Shimmers

Well, I have lost touch with this thread. I'll have to go back and read to catch up.

From the bit of skimming I've done so far, I'm glad other people seem to be having more success in the love department than I am!

The last guy I dated for a month. I thought he was too good to be true. Turns out he was - in the end he wanted my money. I should have seen the red flags. Blazing red flags. More red flags than a Chinese military parade. He was way too.... effusive, for one thing.

And the ex-boyfriend is still the ex-boyfriend. Sigh.


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## RandomDude

IMO a male gold digger is not a man

Been busy too, detaching from girlfriend as she's leaving soon, being kept busy with life, living it to the fullest, working/studying/parenting. I think I'm the happiest I've been really, despite the impending breakup. I don't seem to feel a need for relationships anymore, as if I'm just over it, and finding more enjoyment in other aspects of life.

Haven't vented in a while, nothing to vent about, everything is just... so positive =/

Sometimes friends tell me that I need a woman in my life to complete me. Yet, I feel complete already. The desires still there (fading though, think I'm becoming LD) and nothing wrong with relationships, but I just find myself happiest doing I want to do not what I should do for someone else. Is this selfish?


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## Elizabeth001

Sometimes being selfish is a good thing 


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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> IMO a male gold digger is not a man
> 
> Been busy too, detaching from girlfriend as she's leaving soon, being kept busy with life, living it to the fullest, working/studying/parenting. I think I'm the happiest I've been really, despite the impending breakup. I don't seem to feel a need for relationships anymore, as if I'm just over it, and finding more enjoyment in other aspects of life.
> 
> Haven't vented in a while, nothing to vent about, everything is just... so positive =/
> 
> Sometimes friends tell me that I need a woman in my life to complete me. Yet, I feel complete already. The desires still there (fading though, think I'm becoming LD) and nothing wrong with relationships, but I just find myself happiest doing I want to do not what I should do for someone else. Is this selfish?


Yes, well, I told him he wasn't a man. Except I referred to specific body parts and my language wasn't as nice as yours.

You are breaking up with your girlfriend?!?! Have I been away from this thread that long? What happened? 

Wasn't she your funny bunny, or fuzzy buddy, or something like that? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else......

But I do remember that you were saying you were getting along well. I'm sorry things went south.

If you are happy without a woman in your life, more power to you. Just make sure you aren't rationalizing or justifying.


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## RandomDude

She's going back to her home country due to many circumstances, main one her family; i.e. her dad is alone and her brothers have moved out with their families and she's the eldest daughter, also my xenophobic government has pretty much said "fk off we're full" to immigrants by getting rid of working visas which she didn't renew. There's no bad blood, just circumstances beyond our control.

I was abit sad sure, but quite frankly I feel more relieved, like free. I have alot going on outside of relationships, and I have the opportunity now to focus on it entirely.


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## TooNice

@RandomDude, I am glad to hear you have come to terms with things and that you are doing well. None of us _needs_ another person to "complete" us. I thought we were beyond thinking like that. Believe me, as someone who has been searching for a person to fill a space in my life, I understand the thought behind their words. I take issue with it, however. We need to be happy and secure with ourselves, first. Otherwise, the partner we seek will not be the right fit. One of my favorite expressions is: "Find a thing that brings you joy. Then go do that."

I had a date with Bachelor #2 last night. It was great to spend time with him without reservations. We won't be seeing each other for a couple of weeks due to travel we both have, but I'm already looking forward to getting together again. 

As for me tonight, I had a root canal today, so I think I am going to go to bed early and try to sleep off some of the discomfort. :/


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## Hope Shimmers

RandomDude said:


> She's going back to her home country due to many circumstances, main one her family; i.e. her dad is alone and her brothers have moved out with their families and she's the eldest daughter, also my xenophobic government has pretty much said "fk off we're full" to immigrants by getting rid of working visas which she didn't renew. There's no bad blood, just circumstances beyond our control.
> 
> I was abit sad sure, but quite frankly I feel more relieved, like free. I have alot going on outside of relationships, and I have the opportunity now to focus on it entirely.


Good for you. Be happy with yourself. You are doing it the right way. Take care and I will look forward to your updates. 

Here's a song for you; some of it may apply. It has been in my mind.


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## RandomDude

Just watched Wonder Woman finally... LOL LOVED IT! I swear that one scene... those who watched it know what I'm talking about... that just made movie history! I must have watched the scene like 20x again on youtube after I watched the movie.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Just watched Wonder Woman finally... LOL LOVED IT! I swear that one scene... those who watched it know what I'm talking about... that just made movie history! I must have watched the scene like 20x again on youtube after I watched the movie.


I LOVED it, I thought it was amazing. Someday, maybe 20 years from now, I hope we will look back and can say that this film was a game changer, on more ways than one.

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## RandomDude

Hmmm, please tell me why you feel it's a game changer. For me what I got out of the movie was:

EDIT: Ah fk... anyone got any ideas how to hide a post with a spoiler button?


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## RandomDude

So... I finally did it... and possibly, one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life.

Unlike the women in my past she did absolutely nothing wrong, nothing to justify what I had to do. When I was young everytime I saw a romance movie with the guy breaking up with a great lady I always went "what is wrong with you?!", because I only saw what was on the surface. Now I feel like I'm living out that very scene. It's been a while since I had any woman love me the way she did, and has been good to me the way she had been. Set the standard for love and reminding me what it truly is. And sadly... it also made me realise that I did not love her the same way. Perhaps my emotional inavailability? Perhaps my hardening as our relationship doomsday comes ever closer with her visa expiring? My reluctance at the proposal of a long distance relationship? Why couldn't I love her back?

Regardless my only wish now is that she finds what she wants, and what she deserves, something I know I can not give. To reject a woman who has PROVEN her love for you... *sigh* I'll never forget her.


----------



## Livvie

Hi everyone! I would like to ask your opinion about a dating issue.

I have been divorced for 6 years. Had a relationship after divorce that didn't work out (he was not relationship healthy, I'm proud of myself for ending it).

I've connected with a man I've known through his business for almost two decades. He's single now, too, and we have both expressed attraction and interest and desire to go out on a date. His business is seasonal and busy in the summer. He says he can't go on a date (dinner) until..... November!!!!

November. What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks!!


----------



## GuyInColorado

Not available for a single date for 3 months? No wonder he's single. Don't date him. He's lying. What does he do for work?


----------



## Livvie

GuyInColorado said:


> Not available for a single date for 3 months? No wonder he's single. Don't date him. He's lying. What does he do for work?


Owns a marina and restaurant... He really is there until 10 at night, but shouldn't there be one staff member to cover for one night??


----------



## GuyInColorado

Yes, he needs to delegate and have a life. You wouldn't want to be in a long term relationship with that schedule. 

Does he have three ex wives, paying them child support and alimony? Only reason I could see a man working so much.


----------



## Livvie

GuyInColorado said:


> Yes, he needs to delegate and have a life. You wouldn't want to be in a long term relationship with that schedule.
> 
> Does he have three ex wives, paying them child support and alimony? Only reason I could see a man working so much.


No. Children are grown. Ex is self supporting. He likes to be there when the business is open. I can't wrap my head around not being available for a few hours on one night in the next three months!


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## 3Xnocharm

I'm with Guy on this one. If you get involved with him, you will find yourself perpetually frustrated because he will not make time for you.


----------



## Livvie

Thanks! It seems that way. It's kind of ballsy also that he just expects I'll be still unattached and just waiting for our first date... three months from now...


----------



## Elizabeth001

In the very least he could invite you to dinner at his work and pick up the tab to even just to spend a little time around you. I smell a pile of something stinky and warm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

Livvie said:


> Thanks! It seems that way. It's kind of ballsy also that he just expects I'll be still unattached and just waiting for our first date... three months from now...


Ballsy for sure! If someone is interested in you, then they make time, busy or not. 


So I guess the singles thread is a good place to throw a pity party, right? 

So I'm not sure if I discussed it here a few months back, but a good friend of mine ended up cheating on her husband late last year (despite my efforts to stop it!) So husband found out, and kicked her out of the house. Her AP beat feet and never came back. So, instead of just coming out and telling her husband that she doesnt want to be married to him any longer, she agrees to start going to MC. (while still living out of the home) BUT... she found another guy and was sleeping with him the entire time that her husband thought they were trying to work things out. So he ended up finding out about this guy and the marriage is ending. 

So here is my pity party part... She seems to have found (what she thinks) is the perfect man for her. He is single, has a great job, no drug or alcohol problems, loves going out for live music and having a good time with her, treats her awesome... and I am sitting here going "WHAT THE FUGG??" So she goes and does the most despicable thing possible, lies, cheats, and finds her perfect man?? What the hell kind of justice is that?? I have been floundering for the last FIVE years since my divorce, cannot find one single man interested in committing to me... I dont cheat, I've been in love with my best friend for THREE YEARS almost now and for some reason he just wont/doesnt love me back... I'm pissed, I'm jealous, and I am pissed that I'm pissed and this petty! Can anyone here understand my feeling this way? 

I dont begrudge my friend a good life or happiness but for crying out loud... she doesnt even know who the hell she is or what she likes or how to live her own life, and SHE gets rewarded for her crap with an awesome guy?? Now that being said... I DO have to wonder just what is wrong with a guy who was willing to get involved with a woman who was just kicked out of her home for having an affair. She would go back home and spend weekends with her husband, and from what husband has said, there was sex. What kind of guy would tolerate that?? I dont know. They knew each other from way back in school, maybe past history plays some part in this. (they were never involved back then) 

So all this time for me, all I get is reject after reject after reject. Constant heartbreak from loving someone who doesnt love me back. And then she gushes at me about how great this guy is, and how happy she is with him. UGHHHHHH!! I'm the one who deserves that kind of break! Can anyone relate or understand??

Ok, stepping down now, thanks for letting me spew. :rant:


----------



## hope4family

3Xnocharm said:


> Ballsy for sure! If someone is interested in you, then they make time, busy or not.
> 
> 
> So I guess the singles thread is a good place to throw a pity party, right?
> 
> So I'm not sure if I discussed it here a few months back, but a good friend of mine ended up cheating on her husband late last year (despite my efforts to stop it!) So husband found out, and kicked her out of the house. Her AP beat feet and never came back. So, instead of just coming out and telling her husband that she doesnt want to be married to him any longer, she agrees to start going to MC. (while still living out of the home) BUT... she found another guy and was sleeping with him the entire time that her husband thought they were trying to work things out. So he ended up finding out about this guy and the marriage is ending.
> 
> So here is my pity party part... She seems to have found (what she thinks) is the perfect man for her. He is single, has a great job, no drug or alcohol problems, loves going out for live music and having a good time with her, treats her awesome... and I am sitting here going "WHAT THE FUGG??" So she goes and does the most despicable thing possible, lies, cheats, and finds her perfect man?? What the hell kind of justice is that?? I have been floundering for the last FIVE years since my divorce, cannot find one single man interested in committing to me... I dont cheat, I've been in love with my best friend for THREE YEARS almost now and for some reason he just wont/doesnt love me back... I'm pissed, I'm jealous, and I am pissed that I'm pissed and this petty! Can anyone here understand my feeling this way?
> 
> I dont begrudge my friend a good life or happiness but for crying out loud... she doesnt even know who the hell she is or what she likes or how to live her own life, and SHE gets rewarded for her crap with an awesome guy?? Now that being said... I DO have to wonder just what is wrong with a guy who was willing to get involved with a woman who was just kicked out of her home for having an affair. She would go back home and spend weekends with her husband, and from what husband has said, there was sex. What kind of guy would tolerate that?? I dont know. They knew each other from way back in school, maybe past history plays some part in this. (they were never involved back then)
> 
> So all this time for me, all I get is reject after reject after reject. Constant heartbreak from loving someone who doesnt love me back. And then she gushes at me about how great this guy is, and how happy she is with him. UGHHHHHH!! I'm the one who deserves that kind of break! Can anyone relate or understand??
> 
> Ok, stepping down now, thanks for letting me spew. :rant:


I can't like so i'll comment. I can relate and understand. 

The guy she is with, is probably great. For now anyway. Until you ask yourself what's he doing fooling around allowing this at the same time as well as her husband is. Something isn't 100% clear and someone is just caught up chasing a love drug. 

I think the bigger equation in this is you though. A million factors, but probably the biggest one is ourselves, the only one we can control. 

I wish your friend happiness, but how she is doing it, is not at all a metric for a successful relationship.


----------



## Livvie

Elizabeth001 said:


> In the very least he could invite you to dinner at his work and pick up the tab to even just to spend a little time around you. I smell a pile of something stinky and warm.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn't think of that!! Very true!


----------



## RandomDude

3Xnocharm said:


> Ballsy for sure! If someone is interested in you, then they make time, busy or not.
> 
> 
> So I guess the singles thread is a good place to throw a pity party, right?
> 
> So I'm not sure if I discussed it here a few months back, but a good friend of mine ended up cheating on her husband late last year (despite my efforts to stop it!) So husband found out, and kicked her out of the house. Her AP beat feet and never came back. So, instead of just coming out and telling her husband that she doesnt want to be married to him any longer, she agrees to start going to MC. (while still living out of the home) BUT... she found another guy and was sleeping with him the entire time that her husband thought they were trying to work things out. So he ended up finding out about this guy and the marriage is ending.
> 
> So here is my pity party part... She seems to have found (what she thinks) is the perfect man for her. He is single, has a great job, no drug or alcohol problems, loves going out for live music and having a good time with her, treats her awesome... and I am sitting here going "WHAT THE FUGG??" So she goes and does the most despicable thing possible, lies, cheats, and finds her perfect man?? What the hell kind of justice is that?? I have been floundering for the last FIVE years since my divorce, cannot find one single man interested in committing to me... I dont cheat, I've been in love with my best friend for THREE YEARS almost now and for some reason he just wont/doesnt love me back... I'm pissed, I'm jealous, and I am pissed that I'm pissed and this petty! Can anyone here understand my feeling this way?
> 
> I dont begrudge my friend a good life or happiness but for crying out loud... she doesnt even know who the hell she is or what she likes or how to live her own life, and SHE gets rewarded for her crap with an awesome guy?? Now that being said... I DO have to wonder just what is wrong with a guy who was willing to get involved with a woman who was just kicked out of her home for having an affair. She would go back home and spend weekends with her husband, and from what husband has said, there was sex. What kind of guy would tolerate that?? I dont know. They knew each other from way back in school, maybe past history plays some part in this. (they were never involved back then)
> 
> So all this time for me, all I get is reject after reject after reject. Constant heartbreak from loving someone who doesnt love me back. And then she gushes at me about how great this guy is, and how happy she is with him. UGHHHHHH!! I'm the one who deserves that kind of break! Can anyone relate or understand??
> 
> Ok, stepping down now, thanks for letting me spew. :rant:


'Tis why I say there's no such thing as karma. Justice is a human responsibility.



Livvie said:


> I didn't think of that!! Very true!


To him, you are low priority, best to move on. I used to work 84 hour weeks years ago and I still made time for my ex-wife, as limited as it was in our early years.


----------



## bkyln309

3Xnocharm said:


> Ballsy for sure! If someone is interested in you, then they make time, busy or not.
> 
> 
> So I guess the singles thread is a good place to throw a pity party, right?
> 
> So I'm not sure if I discussed it here a few months back, but a good friend of mine ended up cheating on her husband late last year (despite my efforts to stop it!) So husband found out, and kicked her out of the house. Her AP beat feet and never came back. So, instead of just coming out and telling her husband that she doesnt want to be married to him any longer, she agrees to start going to MC. (while still living out of the home) BUT... she found another guy and was sleeping with him the entire time that her husband thought they were trying to work things out. So he ended up finding out about this guy and the marriage is ending.
> 
> So here is my pity party part... She seems to have found (what she thinks) is the perfect man for her. He is single, has a great job, no drug or alcohol problems, loves going out for live music and having a good time with her, treats her awesome... and I am sitting here going "WHAT THE FUGG??" So she goes and does the most despicable thing possible, lies, cheats, and finds her perfect man?? What the hell kind of justice is that?? I have been floundering for the last FIVE years since my divorce, cannot find one single man interested in committing to me... I dont cheat, I've been in love with my best friend for THREE YEARS almost now and for some reason he just wont/doesnt love me back... I'm pissed, I'm jealous, and I am pissed that I'm pissed and this petty! Can anyone here understand my feeling this way?
> 
> I dont begrudge my friend a good life or happiness but for crying out loud... she doesnt even know who the hell she is or what she likes or how to live her own life, and SHE gets rewarded for her crap with an awesome guy?? Now that being said... I DO have to wonder just what is wrong with a guy who was willing to get involved with a woman who was just kicked out of her home for having an affair. She would go back home and spend weekends with her husband, and from what husband has said, there was sex. What kind of guy would tolerate that?? I dont know. They knew each other from way back in school, maybe past history plays some part in this. (they were never involved back then)
> 
> So all this time for me, all I get is reject after reject after reject. Constant heartbreak from loving someone who doesnt love me back. And then she gushes at me about how great this guy is, and how happy she is with him. UGHHHHHH!! I'm the one who deserves that kind of break! Can anyone relate or understand??
> 
> Ok, stepping down now, thanks for letting me spew. :rant:


First I want to say, all the glitters is not gold. This relationship may not be as great as portrayed by your friend. She is known to be a liar and cheat so who knows if what she is telling you is true. And only time will tell if this is a really good deal or a sham all around.

Secondly, I am sorry your post divorce love life has not been successful. I know you are just venting and probably by now feel much better just having vented. However, maybe your relationship with your best friend is blocking finding you love. You are pining away spending energy on this relationship that is going nowhere. You are spending time in a relationship when you could be investing elsewhere. Maybe you need to find a new best friend who is clearly just a friend. Take time away from this person who must know you have feelings but it overlooking them purposely. The reality is your best friend is never going to change his mind. Time to create space for a partner in your life. Right now, he is filling that space. No other man is going to step on his toes to love you. You must decide if you want love or your want your best friend.


----------



## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> First I want to say, all the glitters is not gold. This relationship may not be as great as portrayed by your friend. She is known to be a liar and cheat so who knows if what she is telling you is true. And only time will tell if this is a really good deal or a sham all around.
> 
> Secondly, I am sorry your post divorce love life has not been successful. I know you are just venting and probably by now feel much better just having vented. However, maybe your relationship with your best friend is blocking finding you love. You are pining away spending energy on this relationship that is going nowhere. You are spending time in a relationship when you could be investing elsewhere. Maybe you need to find a new best friend who is clearly just a friend. Take time away from this person who must know you have feelings but it overlooking them purposely. The reality is your best friend is never going to change his mind. Time to create space for a partner in your life. Right now, he is filling that space. No other man is going to step on his toes to love you. You must decide if you want love or your want your best friend.


Yeah, I think the friend may be making the new partner put to be perfect, to rationalize her crappy behavior.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

bkyln309 said:


> First I want to say, all the glitters is not gold. This relationship may not be as great as portrayed by your friend. She is known to be a liar and cheat so who knows if what she is telling you is true. And only time will tell if this is a really good deal or a sham all around.


Possibly. Right now, I think that anyone who isnt her husband is awesome, she was unhappy and had issues with him for many years. As I mentioned, she really doesnt even know who she is, she's gone through a lot of changes in the last two years or so, and she has taken ZERO time for herself since she moved out. I really hate that I'm jealous, but I am, it just feels really unfair. 




bkyln309 said:


> Secondly, I am sorry your post divorce love life has not been successful. I know you are just venting and probably by now feel much better just having vented. However, maybe your relationship with your best friend is blocking finding you love. You are pining away spending energy on this relationship that is going nowhere. You are spending time in a relationship when you could be investing elsewhere. Maybe you need to find a new best friend who is clearly just a friend. Take time away from this person who must know you have feelings but it overlooking them purposely. The reality is your best friend is never going to change his mind. Time to create space for a partner in your life. Right now, he is filling that space. No other man is going to step on his toes to love you. You must decide if you want love or your want your best friend.


I know you are right, and I am finally starting to get to the point of giving up. I have always said I will know when I've had enough, and its coming up. Over the last year, he and I were very lovey and close, and about two months ago, he got cold on me again, and I am floundering now. I need to put some space between us. Maybe it will make him realize his feelings for me. Maybe not. If not, then that leaves me open for someone else to come in, once I get through healing from this. 

Its not just him though, there were at least four other men since my divorce in 2012 that I connected with, none of them would make a commitment. I've never had this problem in my life, men always fell in love with me! lol.. I am hoping that means that its time for the RIGHT one this time, because it has never worked out before. (three divorces, hello..) While I like my independence, I'm to the point that I'm tired of being alone now.


----------



## ne9907

Hi all.

I have a love/hate relationship with my job. I love the pay and benefits but actually hate what I do.... 
Been thinking about pursuing a degree in Counseling, I believe I have already talked to some of you about this. More than ever, I need to find something that I am passionate about. I do not like my job.

No changes on the horizon for me, still seeing that one guy.... I know I have said many things about him. I forget everything when we are together. 
Either he has bewitched me or I truly enjoy his company. We argue sometimes, but most times we are just happy. I find myself being more and more open, we shared a lot. 
I am experiencing new emotions and experiences with him.

For example, about two week ago we went to the river. TO make a long story short, I saved his life (he almost got swept away by the current). I was always safe. We ended up having sex in the river, on a log lol... 

We often do things like this, we also garden together, cook together... last weekend we went hiking. I stepped on a loose stone and I fell, sprained my wrist in the process. He made me feel cared when he immobilized my wrist.

Being with him made me realize that I want to feel safe; perhaps I have always known this but never truly realized it. 

Growing up I never felt safe, loved, nor nurtured. I was neglected hella bad.... As an adult, I want to feel safe.
I thought I had found my safe harbor with ex husband. I was wrong. I have been wrong with all men. 
I must make my own safe harbor. This guy makes me feel safe. 
No matter where we go, I know if it is within his power to protect me, he will.... Otherwise, I will protect myself.

Seriously guys.... I love him or have I been bewitched? He still smokes weed. He doesn't have a job. He lives with me.
He does clean my house, keeps it clean, cooks (the classical idea of a housewife).

I feel safe and comfortable with him, yet Not for one second do I fool myself into thinking that this is a long lasting relationship. I am aware this might end any second. I am ready to let go if I must. 

I hope I get Sunday the 20th off, so I can drive to Oregon and witness the Solar Eclipse! 
Anyone excited about this event???


----------



## Hope Shimmers

3Xnocharm said:


> Its not just him though, there were at least four other men since my divorce in 2012 that I connected with, none of them would make a commitment. I've never had this problem in my life, men always fell in love with me! lol.. I am hoping that means that its time for the RIGHT one this time, because it has never worked out before. (three divorces, hello..) While I like my independence, I'm to the point that I'm tired of being alone now.


Hi 3X. I'm sorry you are going through this.

I tend to agree with you. If a man can't or won't make a commitment to you, then time to move on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.

I also believe that the right man will come along when you least expect it and when you aren't looking for it.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

ne9907 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I have a love/hate relationship with my job. I love the pay and benefits but actually hate what I do....
> Been thinking about pursuing a degree in Counseling, I believe I have already talked to some of you about this. More than ever, I need to find something that I am passionate about. I do not like my job.
> 
> No changes on the horizon for me, still seeing that one guy.... I know I have said many things about him. I forget everything when we are together.
> Either he has bewitched me or I truly enjoy his company. We argue sometimes, but most times we are just happy. I find myself being more and more open, we shared a lot.
> I am experiencing new emotions and experiences with him.
> 
> For example, about two week ago we went to the river. TO make a long story short, I saved his life (he almost got swept away by the current). I was always safe. We ended up having sex in the river, on a log lol...
> 
> We often do things like this, we also garden together, cook together... last weekend we went hiking. I stepped on a loose stone and I fell, sprained my wrist in the process. He made me feel cared when he immobilized my wrist.
> 
> Being with him made me realize that I want to feel safe; perhaps I have always known this but never truly realized it.
> 
> Growing up I never felt safe, loved, nor nurtured. I was neglected hella bad.... As an adult, I want to feel safe.
> I thought I had found my safe harbor with ex husband. I was wrong. I have been wrong with all men.
> I must make my own safe harbor. This guy makes me feel safe.
> No matter where we go, I know if it is within his power to protect me, he will.... Otherwise, I will protect myself.
> 
> Seriously guys.... I love him or have I been bewitched? He still smokes weed. He doesn't have a job. He lives with me.
> He does clean my house, keeps it clean, cooks (the classical idea of a housewife).
> 
> I feel safe and comfortable with him, yet Not for one second do I fool myself into thinking that this is a long lasting relationship. I am aware this might end any second. I am ready to let go if I must.
> 
> I hope I get Sunday the 20th off, so I can drive to Oregon and witness the Solar Eclipse!
> Anyone excited about this event???


Wait. What? You had sex on a log in the middle of a river? Sounds great. Personally I'm probably too old for that, though 

Why do you think it's not a long-lasting relationship? Because of you or him? Do you think he's going to leave? If that's the case, then you can't be feeling very safe, right?

I personally would have an issue with the no-job thing. It makes him dependent on you. But if he is pulling weight in the other important areas, I can see it.

I recently had a relationship for almost 2 years where I wanted more than anything to feel safe (and loved) but I just didn't. My (new) boyfriend is the polar opposite, and I know I can count on him for anything. And I have. When the right person comes along, I think you know. Deep down.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Yous guys are moving on & I love/hate you for it. But so happy for you both!

It might happen for me, but it will be either a FedEx guy or someone I stumble into at Lowes :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hi 3X. I'm sorry you are going through this.
> 
> I tend to agree with you. If a man can't or won't make a commitment to you, then time to move on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.
> 
> I also believe that the right man will come along when you least expect it and when you aren't looking for it.


Thank you for this, :x but I'm not holding out much hope any more.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yous guys are moving on & I love/hate you for it. But so happy for you both!
> 
> It might happen for me, but it will be either a FedEx guy or someone I stumble into at Lowes :/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the beauty of it. Each day is a new one. You never know. Life can change on a dime. At 52 years old -- if I have learned anything, I have learned that.


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## Hope Shimmers

3Xnocharm said:


> Thank you for this, :x but I'm not holding out much hope any more.


Neither was I.

You remind me of me. You said that guys fall in love with you, but since you divorced in 2012 you had 4 relationships where the guy did not commit. 

Their loss, sweetie.

You haven't been divorced that long. And that's a lot of relationships. You will find the one. 

My boyfriend and I live in LA. I'm still trying to sell my house in KY.

He is the one doing the "I love you SO MUCH" thing --- too soon. But I LIKE him. (Not 'like' him. but 'LIKE' him.) Wow wow and wow..... 

He is a public figure in that people recognize him wherever he goes. So that has been a bit of a challenge. It's a little frustrating when we can't go anywhere without people coming up to him, but we have found some awesome hole-in-the-wall spots that we both love. 

Hang in. I know it's hard. But you will get there. I can't wait to hear about it when you do.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> Neither was I.
> 
> You remind me of me. You said that guys fall in love with you, but since you divorced in 2012 you had 4 relationships where the guy did not commit.
> Their loss, sweetie.
> 
> You haven't been divorced that long. And that's a lot of relationships. You will find the one.


Thanks. But five years out IS a long time to not have found a new long term relationship. 



Hope Shimmers said:


> My boyfriend and I live in LA. I'm still trying to sell my house in KY.
> 
> He is the one doing the "I love you SO MUCH" thing --- too soon. But I LIKE him. (Not 'like' him. but 'LIKE' him.) Wow wow and wow.....
> 
> He is a public figure in that people recognize him wherever he goes. So that has been a bit of a challenge. It's a little frustrating when we can't go anywhere without people coming up to him, but we have found some awesome hole-in-the-wall spots that we both love.
> 
> Hang in. I know it's hard. But you will get there. I can't wait to hear about it when you do.


So did you move? I know you said you were stuck where you were because of your daughter's (right?) school for two more years. 

And all y'all will here if I ever manage to find someone, LOL.


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> Its not just him though, there were at least four other men since my divorce in 2012 that I connected with, none of them would make a commitment. I've never had this problem in my life, men always fell in love with me! lol.. I am hoping that means that its time for the RIGHT one this time, because it has never worked out before. (three divorces, hello..) While I like my independence, I'm to the point that I'm tired of being alone now.


IMO, You never had the problem of men falling in love with you in your life but do now because of two things. First off, your definition or understanding of love has changed. Second off these men you are seeing have more experience themselves and their definition or understanding of what love is has changed as well. You have been married and divorced three times, that means three times either you or they got it wrong (perhaps both of you). I am not blaming you, I am not pointing fingers. But you are older now, you want different things, you are experienced and (hopefully) not willing to settle for the sake of being in love, or in a committed relationship or comingling your assets thru the legal entanglement of marriage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> IMO, You never had the problem of men falling in love with you in your life but do now because of two things. First off, your definition or understanding of love has changed. Second off these men you are seeing have more experience themselves and their definition or understanding of what love is has changed as well. You have been married and divorced three times, that means three times either you or they got it wrong (perhaps both of you). I am not blaming you, I am not pointing fingers. But you are older now, you want different things, you are experienced and (hopefully) not willing to settle for the sake of being in love, or in a committed relationship or comingling your assets thru the legal entanglement of marriage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


I have a very bad, very broken man picker, LOL! Getting married again is most definitely NOT on my radar for my future. I absolutely DO want a life partner, but making it legal? Probably not. It just stinks because I have always been a very relationship oriented person, and finding a permanent partner was really the only thing I knew I wanted for myself in my life. 

Thanks for the support.


----------



## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> I have a very bad, very broken man picker, LOL! Getting married again is most definitely NOT on my radar for my future. I absolutely DO want a life partner, but making it legal? Probably not. It just stinks because I have always been a very relationship oriented person, and finding a permanent partner was really the only thing I knew I wanted for myself in my life.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the support.




Ditto ditto ditto!


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## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> I have a very bad, very broken man picker, LOL! Getting married again is most definitely NOT on my radar for my future. I absolutely DO want a life partner, but making it legal? Probably not. It just stinks because I have always been a very relationship oriented person, and finding a permanent partner was really the only thing I knew I wanted for myself in my life.
> 
> Thanks for the support.


I know the feeling. I was in a long time marriage. Having a relationship was something that was really important to me. Now, I don't know anymore. In the 3 years since I have been divorced I have had four semi LTR (three months or more) 3 or 4 relationships of shorter duration and who knows how many first and/or second dates. About six of the LTRs and semi LTRs have involved sex. But so far, no one has really piqued my interests for more than a few months. Then I start to notice red flags. Some of them I notice in them , but there have been more than a few I have seen in myself. So I just move one. I am getting ready to end an LTR now. I have dated her for a few months, we have been sexually active the last 6 weeks, but it just isn't working for me, so I am cutting her loose.
But I know how you feel, it would be great to find some level of comfort to fall into for awhile.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> I know the feeling. I was in a long time marriage. Having a relationship was something that was really important to me. Now, I don't know anymore. In the 3 years since I have been divorced I have had four semi LTR (three months or more) 3 or 4 relationships of shorter duration and who knows how many first and/or second dates. About six of the LTRs and semi LTRs have involved sex. But so far, no one has really piqued my interests for more than a few months. Then I start to notice red flags. Some of them I notice in them , but there have been more than a few I have seen in myself. So I just move one. I am getting ready to end an LTR now. I have dated her for a few months, we have been sexually active the last 6 weeks, but it just isn't working for me, so I am cutting her loose.
> But I know how you feel, it would be great to find some level of comfort to fall into for awhile.


Can I ask what isn't working for you? Just curious about how men think....

I know you said you would never get married again. 

How do you know if you are with the right person? Or maybe a better question is.... how do you know if you are with the WRONG person?


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## Hope Shimmers

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks. But five years out IS a long time to not have found a new long term relationship.
> 
> So did you move? I know you said you were stuck where you were because of your daughter's (right?) school for two more years.
> 
> And all y'all will here if I ever manage to find someone, LOL.


You are right. And I was not trying to be... I don't know the right word. Patronizing, I guess.

Five years is a long time to not have found a new LTR. But it's also a long time to have found yourself involved in the wrong (multiple-year) LTR. I have two of those under my belt.

Yes, I moved my daughter, for several reasons. Her dad is moving out of the state we originally lived in (for his job). She was having a lot of issues with where we were living before. I'm back there trying to get the house sold. 

I knew I needed to get her out of the environment she was in. It's a long story.


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## Wolf1974

LTR without marriage can be a difficult gamble as well. I have, unbelievable to me, been with my live in GF for 4 years now. It doesn't seem that long, more like 2 years. We moved at a snails pace and I was clear I didn't want marriage, least not now. I think her mind is changing on that. I feel the end may be coming


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Can I ask what isn't working for you? Just curious about how men think....
> 
> I know you said you would never get married again.
> 
> How do you know if you are with the right person? Or maybe a better question is.... how do you know if you are with the WRONG person?


Red flags in them: clingy, start to expect things from me, start to make hints about moving in, start to make hints about "love:, tries to convert me to whatever religion they believe in
Red flags in me: start to do things to make them dependent, starts to get 'familiar' feelings (bad feelings), start to get emotionally attached(just want to see what all is out there) and the big one, it starts to get real which really freaks me out because I start to see us getting attached and then her deciding to pull away because she gets bored.
I don't know. I just don't want to settle for some one for sex, companionship, or whatever. I guess I still feel the need to see what all is out there ( which is something I did not do before I got married) before I settle for one person. I guess in many ways I feel like I am 18 years old again and need to find what I like instead of taking whatever comes.
I am 56, own my own house, have my own car, run my own business, more than pay my own way, I am healthy and fit with fully functioning parts and don't feel the need to just take whatever happens along as I did years ago, I am seeing my value for the first time ever. Why not leverage it for what I want?


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## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> Red flags in them: clingy, start to expect things from me, start to make hints about moving on, start to make hints about "love:, tries to convert me to whatever religion they believe in
> Red flags in me: start to do things to make them dependent, starts to get 'familiar' feelings (bad feelings), start to get emotionally attached(just want to see what all is out there) and the big one, it starts to get real which really freaks me out because I start to see us getting attached and then her deciding to pull away because she gets bored.
> 
> I don't know. I just don't want to settle for some one for sex, companionship, or whatever. I guess I still feel the need to see what all is out there ( which is something I did not do before I got married) before I settle for one person. I guess in many ways I feel like I am 18 years old again and need to find what I like instead of taking whatever comes.
> I am 56, own my own house, have my own car, run my own business, more than pay my own way, I am healthy and fit with fully functioning parts and don't feel the need to just take whatever happens along as I did years ago, I am seeing my value for the first time ever. Why not leverage it for what I want?


These thing are not red flags, except for the religion thing. Clingy, eh, it CAN be, if extreme. Someone having expectations of you and making hints about love is... SHOCK... normal, expected things experienced in a normal relationship. Your red flags for yourself sound to me like nothing but you being terrified of love and commitment. If you dont want to settle with one person, then dont... but make that crystal clear to anyone you may have sex with or start spending time with. Better yet, maybe just sticking with casual sex without spending other time together doing couple stuff would fit where you are at right now. I hope it doesnt sound like Im coming down on you, because Im not. I just wanted to point out that what you put here as "red flags" are really not red flags, but just you not wanting to have feelings or commit right now. 

I wish I felt that way!


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Red flags in them: clingy, start to expect things from me, start to make hints about moving on, start to make hints about "love:, tries to convert me to whatever religion they believe in
> Red flags in me: start to do things to make them dependent, starts to get 'familiar' feelings (bad feelings), start to get emotionally attached(just want to see what all is out there) and the big one, it starts to get real which really freaks me out because I start to see us getting attached and then her deciding to pull away because she gets bored.
> I don't know. I just don't want to settle for some one for sex, companionship, or whatever. I guess I still feel the need to see what all is out there ( which is something I did not do before I got married) before I settle for one person. I guess in many ways I feel like I am 18 years old again and need to find what I like instead of taking whatever comes.
> I am 56, own my own house, have my own car, run my own business, more than pay my own way, I am healthy and fit with fully functioning parts and don't feel the need to just take whatever happens along as I did years ago, I am seeing my value for the first time ever. Why not leverage it for what I want?


Short answer.

You haven't met the right woman yet.

You will. And the above diatribe will all change.

Love ya @Ynot. I don't want to cause problems, but I've seen your heart in your posts. You want it too. What we all want.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Red flags in them: clingy, start to expect things from me, start to make hints about moving on, start to make hints about "love:, tries to convert me to whatever religion they believe in
> 
> Red flags in me: start to do things to make them dependent, starts to get 'familiar' feelings (bad feelings), start to get emotionally attached(just want to see what all is out there) and the big one, it starts to get real which really freaks me out because I start to see us getting attached and then her deciding to pull away because she gets bored.
> 
> I don't know. I just don't want to settle for some one for sex, companionship, or whatever. I guess I still feel the need to see what all is out there ( which is something I did not do before I got married) before I settle for one person. I guess in many ways I feel like I am 18 years old again and need to find what I like instead of taking whatever comes.
> 
> I am 56, own my own house, have my own car, run my own business, more than pay my own way, I am healthy and fit with fully functioning parts and don't feel the need to just take whatever happens along as I did years ago, I am seeing my value for the first time ever. Why not leverage it for what I want?




Ynot...will you not marry me?

Hahahahaaa!



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## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> These thing are not red flags, except for the religion thing. Clingy, eh, it CAN be, if extreme. Someone having expectations of you and making hints about love is... SHOCK... normal, expected things experienced in a normal relationship. Your red flags for yourself sound to me like nothing but you being terrified of love and commitment. If you dont want to settle with one person, then dont... but make that crystal clear to anyone you may have sex with or start spending time with. Better yet, maybe just sticking with casual sex without spending other time together doing couple stuff would fit where you are at right now. I hope it doesnt sound like Im coming down on you, because Im not. I just wanted to point out that what you put here as "red flags" are really not red flags, but just you not wanting to have feelings or commit right now.
> 
> I wish I felt that way!


Well I do not disagree with you. I really do not want a relationship at this time. I guess I could sum it up even better by saying that the red flags from then seem to center around the need to change me (which is where the bad feelings come from) and the red flags for me come from me sensing that she is trying to change me. These things cause me discomfort. When I was married I felt as though I had allowed my self to be changed for my wife (most men feel this way). I always thought I had just needed a hard headed women to show me the way. Now I realize I must go my own way regardless because that is what is best for me. So, when I find her trying to change me or me trying to change for her it is uncomfortable. I understand stepping out of your comfort zone, but I feel like for the first time in my life I am on my own path and really have no desire to be lead astray. Perhaps I will meet a woman who will walk with me, in the meantime I just keep encountering those who cross my path. 
FWIW, I am very upfront with the women I meet about where I am at. But that doesn't stop things from developing with some, or prevents things from developing with others.


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Short answer.
> 
> You haven't met the right woman yet.
> 
> You will. And the above diatribe will all change.
> 
> Love ya @Ynot. I don't want to cause problems, but I've seen your heart in your posts. You want it too. What we all want.


No problems with this. I agree, see my post above. 

To meet the right woman, I have to meet women. 

I have no idea, when or if that will ever happen. When it does I probably won't even realize until months or years down the road. One day I will just wake up and realize how much time has passed and how easy and comfortable it has been to be with this person.


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## Elizabeth001

I sort of feel the same way. I bended myself like a pretzel to try to make the X happy. I totally lost who I really was in the process and I won't do it again. 

I would like a LTR but I think it's going to take a mighty long time. I too own my own place and don't "need" anyone and most men I have met like to play the knight. I think I intimidate most of them and the others seem needy. I don't want someone I feel I will need to take care of either. 

Since I like hanging out with my dogs at home more than anything else, I don't see even a chance of meeting anyone anytime soon unless (as I've said before) it's the Fedex guy or some dude I meet at Lowes 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I sort of feel the same way. I bended myself like a pretzel to try to make the X happy. I totally lost who I really was in the process and I won't do it again.
> 
> I would like a LTR but I think it's going to take a mighty long time. I too own my own place and don't "need" anyone and most men I have met like to play the knight. I think I intimidate most of them and the others seem needy. I don't want someone I feel I will need to take care of either.
> 
> Since I like hanging out with my dogs at home more than anything else, I don't see even a chance of meeting anyone anytime soon unless (as I've said before) it's the Fedex guy or some dude I meet at Lowes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How are we ever going to meet and not get married? I shop at Home Depot haha!


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> How are we ever going to meet and not get married? I shop at Home Depot haha!




Home Depot really? Well that's a deal breaker right there. Hahaaa!

I guess I cling to Lowes because a) they are dog friendly b) I have the card so I get 5% off woohoo! c) I know exactly where everything is, so in and out 


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## Elizabeth001

I'll admit, I do stop into HD sometimes but don't tell anyone. I wear a wig, hat, sunglasses & a trench coat. hehe


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## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> Home Depot really? Well that's a deal breaker right there. Hahaaa!
> 
> I guess I cling to Lowes because a) they are dog friendly b) I have the card so I get 5% off woohoo! c) I know exactly where everything is, so in and out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha, I go there because there is one super close to me! I have gone in there more than once in my grass cutting clothes to grab something for the yard, head to toe sweat, dust, dirt, LOL! Sexy, gotta tell ya!


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## Elizabeth001

Hellz yeah!! lol 


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## ne9907

I am still friends with my ex boyfriend. Not close friends, but we occasionally text to see how we are doing. 
I confide in him about hating my job, he has stated several times that if I ever decide to quit my job, his home (and bed) is open for me. He wants to marry me. He has asked me that before. He would like to marry me and I could go back to school while he takes care of everything.... 
I always tell him no, but do not tell him to stop. This ex doesn't know about the current guy I am seeing. Nobody in my family knows. My FB says nothing about the current guy. Nothing at all. Actually, only a couple of my co workers know about my guy because he has helped in work functions. 
Anyway, my new guy doesn't know that I occasionally talk to the ex. Actually I haven't seen this ex since November of last year.

Anyway, I began playing Clash of clans (FB game), my new guy monitors a clan. I joined my new guy's clan. 

About two week ago, ex messaged and asked how I was doing. I said playing Clash of Clans, ex plays too. Because we are friends on FB, we found each other on CoC. Today, I learned ex left his clan and joined mine (and new guy's).

Shall I tell my new guy that ex boyfriend joined HIS clan because I am in it?

I know this sounds silly.... especially over a silly clan. Yet, I feel I should tell new guy, especially since I know ex has feelings for me. 

Any advise is appreciated


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## Elizabeth001

It sounds like you feel guilty about something. Whether you are or aren't isn't the point but if something is weighing on your heart then IMHO, you should let the new BF know. But I personally am a big believer of openness and honesty at all cost. 


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## 3Xnocharm

You need to cut ties with your ex if you are in an exculsive relationship. Tell him he needs to leave your gaming group and dont communicate any more. I would be pissed as hell if this was going on with my partner.


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## Elizabeth001

OMG! Tree guy! Came to give me an estimate. Tall, handsome, beautiful eyes. Had that twinkle like he thought I was pretty awesome. 

I was a chatterbox. Heard myself doing it but couldn't stop. Dang it!

Divorced. Turns out he's the owner of the company. Good gawd...I'm still shaking with nerves. Wtf is wrong with me 


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## Hope Shimmers

Elizabeth001 said:


> OMG! Tree guy! Came to give me an estimate. Tall, handsome, beautiful eyes. Had that twinkle like he thought I was pretty awesome.
> 
> I was a chatterbox. Heard myself doing it but couldn't stop. Dang it!
> 
> Divorced. Turns out he's the owner of the company. Good gawd...I'm still shaking with nerves. Wtf is wrong with me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How did you find out he is divorced?


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## Elizabeth001

Hope Shimmers said:


> How did you find out he is divorced?




Came up in conversation. He said something to the effect of "After my divorce, yadda yadda yadda"

TBH, he was here probably for over an hour and I can't remember much other than me yammering on and each of us sneaking peeks at each other and grinning a LOT. 

The STUPIDEST day to forget to brush my teeth this morning. ARRGGGHHH!

hahaaaaa


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## RandomDude

I'm at the stage of my life when I finally found someone who had nothing wrong with her, a relationship with no dramas, only to realise in the end... I'm actually happier alone. Makes me question my past blaming of exs on the quality of my relationships, when in the end, it's all me, and that I was never happy, not because of them, but because I have evolved to be happy single and independent.


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## Elizabeth001

Didn't you have a #2 in line?


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## RandomDude

I did! Yet after I broke up I felt no need of contacting her and in fact, decided she would be best as friends!

I no longer feel a need for romantic relationships, it's almost like... I found what I thought I wanted, and then realised I never really wanted it anyway. Deep down I always had this urge, this desire, to just break free from everything. With ex-wife, with first ever gf, all the way to my recent one, I just wanted to be left alone deep down. Was relationships what I wanted or what I wanted to prove to myself and to others? Through this whole experience I proved something to myself I guess...

I wonder if maybe I may have perhaps... found enlightenment!


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## RandomDude

Now excuse me while I ascend to a higher plane of existence


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## Elizabeth001

Hahahaaaa


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> OMG! Tree guy! Came to give me an estimate. Tall, handsome, beautiful eyes. Had that twinkle like he thought I was pretty awesome.
> 
> I was a chatterbox. Heard myself doing it but couldn't stop. Dang it!
> 
> Divorced. Turns out he's the owner of the company. Good gawd...I'm still shaking with nerves. Wtf is wrong with me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hire him! Maybe something will come of it, maybe not... flirt with him some more, and maybe something will happen! I would wait until after the work is done, though. Get to know him a little more first, that way you can suss out if there are any red flags before getting in any deeper.

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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> You need to cut ties with your ex if you are in an exculsive relationship. Tell him he needs to leave your gaming group and dont communicate any more. I would be pissed as hell if this was going on with my partner.


I agree. Exes are exes for a reason.

It's one thing if two people decided they were just better as friends (or if it's an amicable co-parenting relationship), but that clearly isn't the situation here.

If I was dating a guy, and he had an ex still sniffing around and he couldn't put the kabash on that, it would be a huge red flag for me.

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Hire him! Maybe something will come of it, maybe not... flirt with him some more, and maybe something will happen! I would wait until after the work is done, though. Get to know him a little more first, that way you can suss out if there are any red flags before getting in any deeper.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Girlfriend...I gots me a CONTRACT on his azz. Hahaaa!


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## Hope Shimmers

Elizabeth001 said:


> Girlfriend...I gots me a CONTRACT on his azz. Hahaaa!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you! You go girl.

In 2013 my house was hit by lightning and burned partially down. The guy who came to do the restoration work was HOT. Married, but hot. (Damn!) I never saw him again after he finished the work, but if he had been single I might have just burned my house down again to get him to come back!

How many trees do you have?


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## Elizabeth001

*spitting out my wine while laughing*


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## Elizabeth001

Honestly, I'll wait and see if the sparks are there when we see each other again. If not....meh w/e. 

And isn't that the true definition of getting over a divorce? I mean...yay if it happens but if it doesn't, I'm still gonna cuddle up with my little furry man tonight and be thankful for everything I have. 

And know that I don't need anyone. 

Would I like to have a nice man? YESSS!!

But not "needing" someone is so very fulfilling!!

Ok...off my soapbox. 









But DANG...he sure was a cutie and strike me down if the electricity wasn't flying!


Bwaahaaa 


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## ne9907

3Xnocharm said:


> You need to cut ties with your ex if you are in an exculsive relationship. Tell him he needs to leave your gaming group and dont communicate any more. I would be pissed as hell if this was going on with my partner.


You are right. 

I did not tell ex I was in a relationship. I did tell current boyfriend, he in turn kick ex out of clan. 

Ex texted me and asked why he was kicked out. 
I told him I was seeing the leader of the clan and perhaps that was the reason. Ex said he would never speak to me again. 

I understand. I feel guilty. I have always felt ex and I were friends. I obviously still care for him as a person... However, this is for the best. I must not have ex has a back up plan.


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## 3Xnocharm

ne9907 said:


> You are right.
> 
> I did not tell ex I was in a relationship. I did tell current boyfriend, he in turn kick ex out of clan.
> 
> Ex texted me and asked why he was kicked out.
> I told him I was seeing the leader of the clan and perhaps that was the reason. Ex said he would never speak to me again.
> 
> I understand. I feel guilty. I have always felt ex and I were friends. I obviously still care for him as a person... However, this is for the best. I must not have ex has a back up plan.


If you feel the need for a backup plan, then you are in the wrong relationship. 

Glad to see you cut him out.


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## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> Haha, I go there because there is one super close to me! I have gone in there more than once in my grass cutting clothes to grab something for the yard, head to toe sweat, dust, dirt, LOL! Sexy, gotta tell ya!


That is sexy as hell! I think there are a few guys who would agree. Far less pretentious and definitely lower maintenance than a glamour queen that takes two hours to get ready to go the grocery store.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> That is sexy as hell! I think there are a few guys who would agree. Far less pretentious and definitely lower maintenance than a glamour queen that takes two hours to get ready to go the grocery store.




I used to be like that when I was younger but not anymore. I'm good with a ponytail as long as I'm not stinky. Although I'll admit that during my moving process, I had some stinky days too. Hahaaa


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I used to be like that when I was younger but not anymore. I'm good with a ponytail as long as I'm not stinky. Although I'll admit that during my moving process, I had some stinky days too. Hahaaa
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is sexy because it says a woman is comfortable enough with her self that she doesn't care what others think. Same thing with a pony tail and a ball cap. I would rather spend the night with a woman who can get up, pull her hair back into a pony tail, throw on a ball cap a pair of jeans and t-shirt and head out to breakfast than some one who has to spend an hour and half to get "ready". Which begs the question, ready for what? The world to judge you?


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## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> It is sexy because it says a woman is comfortable enough with her self that she doesn't care what others think. Same thing with a pony tail and a ball cap. I would rather spend the night with a woman who can get up, pull her hair back into a pony tail, throw on a ball cap a pair of jeans and t-shirt and head out to breakfast than some one who has to spend an hour and half to get "ready". Which begs the question, ready for what? The world to judge you?


Thanks Y! Funny you mention the pony and ball cap, that is part of my lovely ensemble when I cut grass, lol... I actually do the ball cap often on weekends.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> It is sexy because it says a woman is comfortable enough with her self that she doesn't care what others think. Same thing with a pony tail and a ball cap. I would rather spend the night with a woman who can get up, pull her hair back into a pony tail, throw on a ball cap a pair of jeans and t-shirt and head out to breakfast than some one who has to spend an hour and half to get "ready". Which begs the question, ready for what? The world to judge you?


Personally, I need a shower to get my day started. I have oily skin and hair, and I just feel gross and I sweat more if I don't shower. Which makes me grumpy and unpleasant. 

That being said, it only takes me 30 mins to get "ready" (including the shower). 

I just don't like to be stinky and have gross hair.

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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Personally, I need a shower to get my day started. I have oily skin and hair, and I just feel gross and I sweat more if I don't shower. Which makes me grumpy and unpleasant.
> 
> That being said, it only takes me 30 mins to get "ready" (including the shower).
> 
> I just don't like to be stinky and have gross hair.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Nothing wrong with personal hygiene. I am all for it. But when personal hygiene crosses over to obsession it is a whole different thing. My son married a woman. She doesn't wear too much make up and is pretty natural. She can jump in the shower, dry off, and get dressed in a 10 minutes. She pulls her wet hair back and off she goes. My ex thought she was weird because she would leave the house with wet hair. So glad to be away from that mentality.


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## Elizabeth001

@Ynot

I am so gonna not marry you one day 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> @Ynot
> 
> I am so gonna not marry you one day
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its probably for the best. We would never be able to decide between Lowes and Home Depot and our kids would probably react by going to Menard's! The ungrateful little brats that will never be!


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## Elizabeth001

Hahahaha



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## Elizabeth001

Well hot damn! Tree guy wants to see me "socially". How bout that shat? Woot!




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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well hot damn! Tree guy wants to see me "socially". How bout that shat? Woot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Since we aren't getting married when weren't you going to tell me?


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Since we aren't getting married when weren't you going to tell me?




OMG! You're a mind reader too! I actually thought about you and what you might think. How silly is that??

IDK... i'm having second thoughts about this guy. I definitely do not want to end up in another sexless relationship. On the other hand, I don't want the opposite either. Maybe it's my state of being leery (bringing on baggage from past marriage) or it's a big red flag that I shouldn't ignore. How in the hell do you tell the difference???

TBQH...I have found the banter between myself and @Ynot so refreshing over the past week or so. I know in my brain that it's something that would never be possible with *this* particular person, but it reminds me of how important basic ideology of life & basic personality in general is important. Just how important it is to truly "mesh" with a person you choose to share life with. (I mean OMG! You have to deal with them 24/7 and STILL dig them!) Unless you don't mind going to prison for murder 

I may grow old all by myself but if that's my path, I accept it and will embrace it without fear. I will continue to find things to do that fill my soul. (Lowes in the morning! WOOT! I GET TO BUY A NEW TOILET SEAT! hahaaaa...no joke, I'm super stoked!)

If I ever do find a life partner, I will wait until I "mesh". No more settling. Some folks might call it being selfish, but I really don't care. (Different thread) I've spent a lifetime taking care of other people. It's high time for me to take care of myself! I have learned that it is more difficult to love other people if you don't love yourself. 

If that involves someone who is taking care of themselves and we "mesh", cool. If not, no hard feelings. 

SO...Tree Guy...After thinking about the first couple of times we talked, I think he might just be a horn dog. I'm not going into details… Let's just say I've been playing this game long enough to tell 

And I'm NOT saying that he is wrong or a bad person for being so (if he is). I will admit after I separated from my husband, I did find my inner ****. After 10 years of a sexless marriage, I don't think anyone could blame me. HOWEVER, without a spiritual connection, it became more like an act to perform instead of something that was pleasurable to me. 

So in short (hahaa), I'm just not looking to get laid solely for the purpose of getting laid. Batteries are fresh in BoB and I have 2 little furry guys to snuggle with afterwards. 

OH ....and LOTS of home projects!

Did I mention Lowes trip tomorrow? 

Hahaaaaaaa!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Elizabeth001 said:


> How in the hell do you tell the difference???


Hmm. Take him to bed? 



Elizabeth001 said:


> TBQH...I have found the banter between myself and @Ynot so refreshing over the past week or so. I know in my brain that it's something that would never be possible with *this* particular person, but it reminds me of how important basic ideology of life & basic personality in general is important. Just how important it is to truly "mesh" with a person you choose to share life with. (I mean OMG! You have to deal with them 24/7 and STILL dig them!) Unless you don't mind going to prison for murder


YNot is a good guy. He and I would kill each other if we lived together though :rofl: The first thing I would do is hang a bunch of stuff from Hobby Lobby all over the walls :rofl:



Elizabeth001 said:


> (Lowes in the morning! WOOT! I GET TO BUY A NEW TOILET SEAT! hahaaaa...no joke, I'm super stoked!)


Did you know that toilet seats aren't all the same size? I went to Lowe's once and bought some random toilet seat, got it home, and it didn't fit! :scratchhead: I mean really.... why not just make toilets all the same size? :scratchhead:

You probably do know that though, right? You sound a lot handier than I am. I can't even drill a screw into the wall. I tried awhile back, using a power hand drill, and the screw kept falling on the ground and finally my HAIR, which is long, got caught in the drill. Like, inside the part where the drill bit thing goes into the machine and it spins around. So I'm walking around holding this drill next to my head for two hours or something like that, until I finally got up enough guts to ask my neighbor to help me get it out. He about died laughing. I'm like, DUDE! I have a drill stuck on my head and you are LAUGHING!

I never did tell my ex-boyfriend about that (he builds houses). He probably would have told that story at Saturday night poker games to his poker buddies (one of whom is his current girlfriend. But I digress).



Elizabeth001 said:


> SO...Tree Guy...After thinking about the first couple of times we talked, I think he might just be a horn dog. I'm not going into details… Let's just say I've been playing this game long enough to tell


Come on now. You can't just say that and leaving it all hanging there. (No double entendre intended). Why do you think he is a horn dog? Certainly you didn't sit around and discuss that over coffee 



Elizabeth001 said:


> So in short (hahaa),


Too late :rofl:



Elizabeth001 said:


> I'm just not looking to get laid solely for the purpose of getting laid. Batteries are fresh in BoB and I have 2 little furry guys to snuggle with afterwards.



Oh man. Throw BoB under the bed (that's where I keep mine). Get laid for the purpose of getting laid! Then tell us about it! (Seriously... I hope things go well)



Elizabeth001 said:


> Did I mention Lowes trip tomorrow?


Measure your toilet, and walk right past the drill section. My two cents...


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Personally, I need a shower to get my day started. I have oily skin and hair, and I just feel gross and I sweat more if I don't shower. Which makes me grumpy and unpleasant.
> 
> That being said, it only takes me 30 mins to get "ready" (including the shower).
> 
> I just don't like to be stinky and have gross hair.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I get dandruff


----------



## Elizabeth001

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hmm. Take him to bed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YNot is a good guy. He and I would kill each other if we lived together though :rofl: The first thing I would do is hang a bunch of stuff from Hobby Lobby all over the walls :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that toilet seats aren't all the same size? I went to Lowe's once and bought some random toilet seat, got it home, and it didn't fit! :scratchhead: I mean really.... why not just make toilets all the same size? :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> You probably do know that though, right? You sound a lot handier than I am. I can't even drill a screw into the wall. I tried awhile back, using a power hand drill, and the screw kept falling on the ground and finally my HAIR, which is long, got caught in the drill. Like, inside the part where the drill bit thing goes into the machine and it spins around. So I'm walking around holding this drill next to my head for two hours or something like that, until I finally got up enough guts to ask my neighbor to help me get it out. He about died laughing. I'm like, DUDE! I have a drill stuck on my head and you are LAUGHING!
> 
> 
> 
> I never did tell my ex-boyfriend about that (he builds houses). He probably would have told that story at Saturday night poker games to his poker buddies (one of whom is his current girlfriend. But I digress).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on now. You can't just say that and leaving it all hanging there. (No double entendre intended). Why do you think he is a horn dog? Certainly you didn't sit around and discuss that over coffee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too late :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man. Throw BoB under the bed (that's where I keep mine). Get laid for the purpose of getting laid! Then tell us about it! (Seriously... I hope things go well)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Measure your toilet, and walk right past the drill section. My two cents...




That was some funny stuff there HS. Hahaaaa

I actually bought my first drill when I moved in here. It's a little Dewalt 12 volt and I love it! There's been very little I haven't been able to do by myself. I haven't even broken the small bit yet! Hahaaa The hair thing? OUCH! Did you have to cut it? I keep mine in a ponytail while I'm working. Mostly because it's too hot when down. 

Tree guy is a little touchy-feely for someone I just met, especially on a business call. He likes hugs and while I do too, they're usually reserved for someone I know a little better. Also, his idea of seeing me "socially" was coming over for a movie. When I mentioned that you can't really get to know someone while watching a movie, he replied that it depends on how much watching you do. I mean come on...can we have dinner first? lol I'm going to let him take this tree down before anything else. It's a big one....going to cost $1500 & will require a crane. That will give me a chance to feel him out a little more. 

Toilet seats. Yes I knew but it didn't register until I was already at the store. I was pretty sure mine was the teeny one. Remember, it's a really old house. So, I got the little one and when I got home it fit perfectly. I'm going to chalk that up to good luck and make sure I measure everything first next time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hmm. Take him to bed?
> 
> I agree, maybe you will scare him off!
> 
> YNot is a good guy. He and I would kill each other if we lived together though :rofl: The first thing I would do is hang a bunch of stuff from Hobby Lobby all over the walls :rofl:
> 
> You would have to find a wall that doesn't have something that has a story behind it. Like I said no more "I got it a t Hobby Lobby crap" for me. My ex had polluted every wall in the house with that stuff. At first I thought it was meant for me. Then I realized she did for herself, because she needed to be reminded. As my daughter says, "anybody that needs put that crap up is trying to hard"
> 
> Did you know that toilet seats aren't all the same size? I went to Lowe's once and bought some random toilet seat, got it home, and it didn't fit! :scratchhead: I mean really.... why not just make toilets all the same size? :scratchhead:
> 
> Because everybody's butt is different.
> 
> You probably do know that though, right? You sound a lot handier than I am. I can't even drill a screw into the wall. I tried awhile back, using a power hand drill, and the screw kept falling on the ground and finally my HAIR, which is long, got caught in the drill. Like, inside the part where the drill bit thing goes into the machine and it spins around. So I'm walking around holding this drill next to my head for two hours or something like that, until I finally got up enough guts to ask my neighbor to help me get it out. He about died laughing. I'm like, DUDE! I have a drill stuck on my head and you are LAUGHING!
> 
> Next time (I hope there is a next time) just loosen the chuck (the part that screws in to tighten the bit in place) and pull the bit out. Then you should easily be able to remove that from your hair. After that, I don't have a clue how you would untangle your hair
> 
> I never did tell my ex-boyfriend about that (he builds houses). He probably would have told that story at Saturday night poker games to his poker buddies (one of whom is his current girlfriend. But I digress).
> 
> 
> 
> Come on now. You can't just say that and leaving it all hanging there. (No double entendre intended). Why do you think he is a horn dog? Certainly you didn't sit around and discuss that over coffee
> 
> I can see Elzabeth's point here. At least take her out and treat her like a person before hopping straight into the sack.
> 
> Too late :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man. Throw BoB under the bed (that's where I keep mine). Get laid for the purpose of getting laid! Then tell us about it! (Seriously... I hope things go well)
> 
> I agree, if you want ****ed then get ****ed. Don't use a surrogate.
> 
> Measure your toilet, and walk right past the drill section. My two cents...


Or if BoB isn't doing the trick anymore, stop in the tool section and buy a hammer drill. It rotates and vibrates! I am sure you could find an attachment for it!


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## Elizabeth001

🤣 


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## Ynot

Damn, tough crowd here! Elizabeth won't marry me because I shop at Home Depot and Hope would kill me because I wouldn't let her hang Hobby Lobby stuff on my walls. I never knew brand loyalty was so strong.


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> That was some funny stuff there HS. Hahaaaa
> 
> I actually bought my first drill when I moved in here. It's a little Dewalt 12 volt and I love it! There's been very little I haven't been able to do by myself. I haven't even broken the small bit yet! Hahaaa The hair thing? OUCH! Did you have to cut it? I keep mine in a ponytail while I'm working. Mostly because it's too hot when down.
> 
> Tree guy is a little touchy-feely for someone I just met, especially on a business call. He likes hugs and while I do too, they're usually reserved for someone I know a little better. Also, his idea of seeing me "socially" was coming over for a movie. When I mentioned that you can't really get to know someone while watching a movie, he replied that it depends on how much watching you do. I mean come on...can we have dinner first? lol I'm going to let him take this tree down before anything else. It's a big one....going to cost $1500 & will require a crane. That will give me a chance to feel him out a little more.
> 
> Toilet seats. Yes I knew but it didn't register until I was already at the store. I was pretty sure mine was the teeny one. Remember, it's a really old house. So, I got the little one and when I got home it fit perfectly. I'm going to chalk that up to good luck and make sure I measure everything first next time!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ugh, it sounds like tree guy is looking for an easy lay.

Unless that's what you want, I would stay away.

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## Hope Shimmers

yeah Elizabeth, be careful. I get the horn dog thing now. 

You never know until you get to know someone. 

I needed a little levity from this site. My 16 year old daughter has been in the hospital, just diagnosed with a rare disorder which has serious complications and she is being treated at a large University hospital where we have some docs who work with this. I still feel in the dark, and it's affecting me.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Damn, tough crowd here! Elizabeth won't marry me because I shop at Home Depot and Hope would kill me because I wouldn't let her hang Hobby Lobby stuff on my walls. I never knew brand loyalty was so strong.


Never been to Hobby Lobby in my life. But I would do it just to get a reaction out of you.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> Or if BoB isn't doing the trick anymore, stop in the tool section and buy a hammer drill. It rotates and vibrates! I am sure you could find an attachment for it!


If I ever get to that point I will seriously consider suicide


----------



## Elizabeth001

Hope Shimmers said:


> yeah Elizabeth, be careful. I get the horn dog thing now.
> 
> 
> 
> You never know until you get to know someone.
> 
> 
> 
> I needed a little levity from this site. My 16 year old daughter has been in the hospital, just diagnosed with a rare disorder which has serious complications and she is being treated at a large University hospital where we have some docs who work with this. I still feel in the dark, and it's affecting me.




Ah damn. Good thoughts going out to you! Keep us posted. 

*hugs*


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## 3Xnocharm

Sorry to hear this, Hope, I hope she gets better soon.


----------



## honcho

Hope Shimmers said:


> Never been to Hobby Lobby in my life. But I would do it just to get a reaction out of you.


Never go to one. My crazy ex had the hobby lobby fetishist too and my walls were covered with junk and rooms and closets stuffed with projects that would never get done.


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## FeministInPink

So, it would seem that Real Estate and I have crossed a threshold. For those of you new (or who don't remember), RE has insisted for a long time now that we aren't dating, and that we aren't boyfriend/girlfriend, because in his mind, both of those are terms/titles that mean he would consider marrying me, which could never happen because he's determined that he will never get married again. Whenever he has mentioned me or introduced me to someone else, he has always intentionally referred to me as his "friend," even though it is clear, and he has confirmed to me several times that we are a couple and that we are in a relationship, and this is also obvious to other people. I told him once, a long time ago, that I didn't like the "friend" thing, because I felt that it diminished the depth and significance of our relationship (relative to other friends). After that, I didn't bring it up again. He listens well, and I saw no need to nag him about it.

I told you that to tell you this: Tuesday night, we're out at trivia night with his friends, and he says to me, "I was talking to that contractor today, while we were in the elevator, and I told him, 'My girlfriend calls this the kissing booth.' He thought that was funny."

He referred to me as his girlfriend, without batting an eye. 

This, on the heels of a conversation we had on Sunday, after going out for a somewhat expensive lunch... 

ME: I'm an expensive date.
RE: I think we're well past the dating stage, don't you?
ME: ...
RE: But they do say that you need to keep dating your partner, to keep the romance going? So we can say that was a date.

Moving forward. Baby steps. 


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## RandomDude

Ha! He sounds confused as fk! lol


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Ha! He sounds confused as fk! lol


On the contrary, I think things are coming into focus for him!

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## RandomDude

Perhaps, all in the perspective 

Lets see what happens!


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## RandomDude

Ergh... what's with the nipple sucking?! And I mean female sucking on male chest, doesn't do anything for me, why do so many do it? Is it enjoyable for the woman? Makes me feel weird and a turn off!

/end random vent


----------



## Ynot

honcho said:


> Never go to one. My crazy ex had the hobby lobby fetishist too and my walls were covered with junk and rooms and closets stuffed with projects that would never get done.


I hear you! I rented a 30 cubic yard dumpster and filled it to overflowing when we sold the house. So much junk and much of it seldom if ever used. No wonder I didn't have any money. Instead of creating memories, she was out buying them at Hobby Lobby


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Ergh... what's with the nipple sucking?! And I mean female sucking on male chest, doesn't do anything for me, why do so many do it? Is it enjoyable for the woman? Makes me feel weird and a turn off!
> 
> 
> 
> /end random vent




I once briefly dated a guy with 3 nipples. It was pretty neat!

I think most nipples are sensitive...male or female, no? It's usually an erogenous zone. Most men I've been with like it. If you don't, that's obviously ok but I find it strange. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I hear you! I rented a 30 cubic yard dumpster and filled it to overflowing when we sold the house. So much junk and much of it seldom if ever used. No wonder I didn't have any money. Instead of creating memories, she was out buying them at Hobby Lobby




You and the rest of us know that you need to stick to chicks that dig hardware stores 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> You and the rest of us know that you need to stick to chicks that dig hardware stores
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ooooh baby there is nothing sexier than a chick with a pony tail, wearing a ball cap, a t-shirt, cut off overalls, ankle sox and tennis shoes in an old fashioned small town hardware store. I think it is the smell of saw dust and fertilizer that really puts it over the edge :laugh:


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## RandomDude

Elizabeth001 said:


> I once briefly dated a guy with 3 nipples. It was pretty neat!
> 
> I think most nipples are sensitive...male or female, no? It's usually an erogenous zone. Most men I've been with like it. If you don't, that's obviously ok but I find it strange.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:scratchhead:

Erogenous zone?

Does make me feel weird, like off... bad weird. Meh


----------



## FeministInPink

I had a boyfriend in college who loved it/whose nipples were a huge erogenous zone. 

None of the other guys I've been with have been into it.

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## RandomDude

Ergh... the recent Mayweather/McGregor fight has resparked my interest in the combat sport scene. But I don't have the time 

I still remember growing up watching Rocky 4, the final fight scene like 100x on VHS, pausing and rewinding particular punches in the scene. The workouts and training I used to do when younger, and the thrill of combat and adrenaline that comes only in fights. Hopefully this passion of mine will dissipate again, too old for it now, and too rusty haven't been in a fight for so many years.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

RandomDude said:


> Ergh... what's with the nipple sucking?! And I mean female sucking on male chest, doesn't do anything for me, why do so many do it? Is it enjoyable for the woman? Makes me feel weird and a turn off!
> 
> /end random vent


I love to do it, so when its something my partner likes, its awesome. Obviously, if he is put off by it, then I wouldnt do it. I may pout a little, but I respect that, lol!


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## ne9907

Last Monday my guy and I went to Oregon to witness the solar eclipse. Was amazing!!

His family lives in Oregon. We stayed at his aunt's, I met his dad, grandma, some cousins and more aunts. 

I had a wonderful time. The eclipse was amazing! Total darkness for a few minutes!!
It was so dark and cold!!! I could see the stars~~

I am in love with this guy... my insecurities are coming out.


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## TooNice

Hey gang! Just popped in to catch up on reading and wanted to say hi. Hope you are all doing great! :x


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> Hey gang! Just popped in to catch up on reading and wanted to say hi. Hope you are all doing great! :x


Hey! I miss you. You should come by more often.

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## bkyln309

Hi all. Life is super busy and challenging. Having some challenges with my son. Still seeing Older Man. Not much else to report.


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## TooNice

Things are good here, just been really, really busy. It's my busiest time at work, and this year has more going on than any year before. It's all good stuff, but there is A LOT going on. I am continuing to train for my marathon - I am just under five weeks out now. I still don't know what possessed my un-athletic self to run a marathon at age 45, but I have trained too hard to back out now! My son will be home for it, and I have many friends who will be on the route, so I know I will be well supported. And one benefit to being a slower runner - all of my friends who are running it will be waiting for me at the finish line - lol!

Dating has been interesting as of late. I had two nice men I was seeing for a time, and ended up breaking up with one when my son found out he not only shares my ex's name, but even his career path. He thought that was a horrible idea. I have one friend who is still in awe that I would dump a perfectly nice man because my college aged son and his friends told me to! The second man was nice, but I didn't feel much of a spark, even after 6 dates. Around that time, a third man started sending me very witty messages, so I set up a meeting with him. Our drinks turned into dinner and a nightcap at a local outdoor bar. Who should walk in, but the sparkless guy... with another woman! I sent him a nice farewell note a few days later, but he never replied. :-o

In the meantime, I have been seeing the third guy for about three weeks now. Things are good so far. We like each other a lot - and we like the potential we have. One day at a time. 

And hey - as I was typing this, I was trying to think if I have a good nickname for this one. It just occurred to me, FiP! I have my own Real Estate now! 

Anyway - back to my crazy life now. Miss you guys!


----------



## Ynot

I got out of a relationship because I just wasn't feeling it. It just wasn't working for me. I decided to try out Zoosk, but whenever I read a woman's profile all I couldn't get past the neediness of advertising your availability. Before anybody gets all bothered about that, I was feeling it about my own profile as well. I mean basically you are letting who ever know you are available and hope the right person who also happens to be available comes along. I still sent a few messages and had a few responses. I started to talking with one woman, we even talked on the phone and had made plans to meet for a happy hour this evening. 
In the meantime I went to a meet up and met a beautiful , interesting and tall women (she is 6' but I am 6'4 so it is great in my book) We went out on Saturday and had a great time. We spent about 4 hours talking over a few beers and thoroughly enjoyed the evening. At the end of the evening, we were on the same page and couldn't wait to suck face ;-)! We made plans to go out again this Saturday. We had a long text conversation on Sunday and really enjoyed it, then we spent three hours on the phone last night. 
So I was having second thoughts about meeting the Zoosk girl. Well at some point during my phone call with the meet up woman, the zoosk girl texted me a pic (she did have a nice body). When I didn't respond, she started texting and sending me emails asking if I had blocked her and then started calling me an ass and telling me "best wishes, you don't know what you are missing" Needless to say, that sealed the deal as far as I was concerned. I have no interest in that kind of drama. 
Then today she texted me that she was sorry, she was having a bad day and didn't mean to take it out on me. Needless to say, I am still not interested in that kind of drama. Heck we had not even met and she was already getting belligerent with me. 
Regardless, I am really excited about the meet up woman. We have so much in common and she is so easy to talk to. Our conversation was all over the place and I am really looking forward to seeing her again on Saturday and talking to her again tomorrow (we are both busy tonight although we have had a few texts already today)


----------



## FeministInPink

@TooNice, you have to find a different name--Real Estate is taken! 

***Comment addressed @Ynot retracted by FIP***

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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice, you have to find a different name--Real Estate is taken!


Yeah... I'll come up with something else, but it made me chuckle!


----------



## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> @TooNice, you have to find a different name--Real Estate is taken!
> @Ynot if you weren't interested in seeing Zoosk girl or chatting further, you should have just told her. But you didn't, and that's why she called you an ass. Yes, she was being a little needy, but you ghosted her and that was really rude.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


FIP I hear what you are saying, but that wasn't the case. I had not had a chance to respond. It wasn't like I just disappeared one day. It was like maybe an hour tops. She called me an ass, for something like not responding fast enough not for not responding at all - I never had the chance to. That tells me, that she has some other issues. Issues which I wish to avoid. I have no desire to be at anyone's beck and call 24/7 and then be castigated for not being available at their discretion. I work, I have a life and beyond that we had not even met face to face. So for her to jump right into that was unacceptable and is unacceptable. I cannot even imagine the tirade that would come in the future if I didn't jump at her command.


----------



## Ynot

OTOH, meet up girl and I ended up talking for another two hours last night. So far I find myself checking things off my (good) list every time I talk to her. The conversation flows seamlessly from subject to subject and I am so comfortable talking about anything with her. I woke up this morning and realized I was thinking about her and smiling  !


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> Things are good here, just been really, really busy. It's my busiest time at work, and this year has more going on than any year before. It's all good stuff, but there is A LOT going on. I am continuing to train for my marathon - I am just under five weeks out now. I still don't know what possessed my un-athletic self to run a marathon at age 45, but I have trained too hard to back out now! My son will be home for it, and I have many friends who will be on the route, so I know I will be well supported. And one benefit to being a slower runner - all of my friends who are running it will be waiting for me at the finish line - lol!
> 
> Dating has been interesting as of late. I had two nice men I was seeing for a time, and ended up breaking up with one when my son found out he not only shares my ex's name, but even his career path. He thought that was a horrible idea. I have one friend who is still in awe that I would dump a perfectly nice man because my college aged son and his friends told me to! The second man was nice, but I didn't feel much of a spark, even after 6 dates. Around that time, a third man started sending me very witty messages, so I set up a meeting with him. Our drinks turned into dinner and a nightcap at a local outdoor bar. Who should walk in, but the sparkless guy... with another woman! I sent him a nice farewell note a few days later, but he never replied. :-o
> 
> In the meantime, I have been seeing the third guy for about three weeks now. Things are good so far. We like each other a lot - and we like the potential we have. One day at a time.
> 
> And hey - as I was typing this, I was trying to think if I have a good nickname for this one. It just occurred to me, FiP! I have my own Real Estate now!
> 
> Anyway - back to my crazy life now. Miss you guys!


Life is good. Congrats on the marathon. I wish you well, it will be something you will always be able to say you did (no ragerts, man!). Also good job not settling!


----------



## Bananapeel

Ynot said:


> OTOH, meet up girl and I ended up talking for another two hours last night. So far I find myself checking things off my (good) list every time I talk to her. The conversation flows seamlessly from subject to subject and I am so comfortable talking about anything with her. I woke up this morning and realized I was thinking about her and smiling  !


Have you thought about instead of talking so long on the phone, just keeping the conversations short and using the phone to set up a date and then talk in person? Heck with a two hour phone call you could have taken her out on a quick date and had a lot more fun. Bom chicka wa wa... :wink2:


----------



## bkyln309

TooNice said:


> Things are good here, just been really, really busy. It's my busiest time at work, and this year has more going on than any year before. It's all good stuff, but there is A LOT going on. I am continuing to train for my marathon - I am just under five weeks out now. I still don't know what possessed my un-athletic self to run a marathon at age 45, but I have trained too hard to back out now! My son will be home for it, and I have many friends who will be on the route, so I know I will be well supported. And one benefit to being a slower runner - all of my friends who are running it will be waiting for me at the finish line - lol!
> 
> Dating has been interesting as of late. I had two nice men I was seeing for a time, and ended up breaking up with one when my son found out he not only shares my ex's name, but even his career path. He thought that was a horrible idea. I have one friend who is still in awe that I would dump a perfectly nice man because my college aged son and his friends told me to! The second man was nice, but I didn't feel much of a spark, even after 6 dates. Around that time, a third man started sending me very witty messages, so I set up a meeting with him. Our drinks turned into dinner and a nightcap at a local outdoor bar. Who should walk in, but the sparkless guy... with another woman! I sent him a nice farewell note a few days later, but he never replied. :-o
> 
> In the meantime, I have been seeing the third guy for about three weeks now. Things are good so far. We like each other a lot - and we like the potential we have. One day at a time.
> 
> And hey - as I was typing this, I was trying to think if I have a good nickname for this one. It just occurred to me, FiP! I have my own Real Estate now!
> 
> Anyway - back to my crazy life now. Miss you guys!


I understand a bad association but I would never let young adults tell me who I should date. They dont know themselves.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> FIP I hear what you are saying, but that wasn't the case. I had not had a chance to respond. It wasn't like I just disappeared one day. It was like maybe an hour tops. She called me an ass, for something like not responding fast enough not for not responding at all - I never had the chance to. That tells me, that she has some other issues. Issues which I wish to avoid. I have no desire to be at anyone's beck and call 24/7 and then be castigated for not being available at their discretion. I work, I have a life and beyond that we had not even met face to face. So for her to jump right into that was unacceptable and is unacceptable. I cannot even imagine the tirade that would come in the future if I didn't jump at her command.


Ok. From your original post, I got the impression that it was a longer time span, and that you stood her up. 

I retract my comment 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> FIP I hear what you are saying, but that wasn't the case. I had not had a chance to respond. It wasn't like I just disappeared one day. It was like maybe an hour tops. She called me an ass, for something like not responding fast enough not for not responding at all - I never had the chance to. That tells me, that she has some other issues. Issues which I wish to avoid. I have no desire to be at anyone's beck and call 24/7 and then be castigated for not being available at their discretion. I work, I have a life and beyond that we had not even met face to face. So for her to jump right into that was unacceptable and is unacceptable. I cannot even imagine the tirade that would come in the future if I didn't jump at her command.


An hour? Yeah... good that you had that happen early. I've had men do that, too. "Oh.... I see how it is. You start a conversation and then go cold." 

Dude - I went to BED. 

That's a wonderful first impression.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> Have you thought about instead of talking so long on the phone, just keeping the conversations short and using the phone to set up a date and then talk in person? Heck with a two hour phone call you could have taken her out on a quick date and had a lot more fun. Bom chicka wa wa... :wink2:


It was kind of impromptu and unplanned. But as an aside we are getting together tonight. It just seems like we both are really into it.


----------



## TooNice

bkyln309 said:


> I understand a bad association but I would never let young adults tell me who I should date. They dont know themselves.


There were more factors than that, but the fact that my son was that uncomfortable was enough for me. His reaction simply guided me to a decision I was leaning toward, anyway. The guy is also in his early 50s, has never had a relationship longer than 6 months and has no kids. All of the kids at the table felt that was a huge life experience gap when compared to my 21 year marriage. It was actually quite impressive to hear the questions they asked and to see the situation from their perspectives!


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> There were more factors than that, but the fact that my son was that uncomfortable was enough for me. His reaction simply guided me to a decision I was leaning toward, anyway. The guy is also in his early 50s, has never had a relationship longer than 6 months and has no kids. All of the kids at the table felt that was a huge life experience gap when compared to my 21 year marriage. It was actually quite impressive to hear the questions they asked and to see the situation from their perspectives!


I think the young people had a great point about the differing life experience. I would think someone in their 50s with no LTRs (more than 6 mos) would be a huge red flag.


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## Ynot

Ynot said:


> It was kind of impromptu and unplanned. But as an aside we are getting together tonight. It just seems like we both are really into it.


Wow, now I can't stop smiling! Met for about an hour and a couple of beers, then spent next hour and half making out in the parking lot. Plans for Saturday night and now plans for a Monday motorcycle ride. This woman checks things off my list every time she opens her mouth.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> There were more factors than that, but the fact that my son was that uncomfortable was enough for me. His reaction simply guided me to a decision I was leaning toward, anyway. The guy is also in his early 50s, has never had a relationship longer than 6 months and has no kids. All of the kids at the table felt that was a huge life experience gap when compared to my 21 year marriage. It was actually quite impressive to hear the questions they asked and to see the situation from their perspectives!


Again, great job not settling. I think there is a huge gap between someone who has experienced a long term marriage and some one who hasn't. You have to wonder if they would be willing or capable to even make an effort to overcome some routine, mundane, every day conflict or just bale out.


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## 3Xnocharm

TooNice said:


> *There were more factors than that, but the fact that my son was that uncomfortable was enough for me. *His reaction simply guided me to a decision I was leaning toward, anyway. The guy is also in his early 50s, has never had a relationship longer than 6 months and has no kids. All of the kids at the table felt that was a huge life experience gap when compared to my 21 year marriage. It was actually quite impressive to hear the questions they asked and to see the situation from their perspectives!


I think its wise to listen to family, many times they pick up on stuff you dont because you're all in a heady fog with a potential new relationship. This is something I have learned the hard way, sorry to say.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I think its wise to listen to family, many times they pick up on stuff you dont because you're all in a heady fog with a potential new relationship. This is something I have learned the hard way, sorry to say.


I agree... you also have to know who to listen to. My mom loved my XH, thought he was great. My dad didn't like him, didn't trust him to take care his little girl, but my dad also never said anything.


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## Elizabeth001

Starting my "new" old job with the contractor today. So many mixed emotions. They put me back in painter whites. I feel like the Pillsberry Dough Girl. 

Supposedly I'll still be doing sign work but these guys have no idea what they're doing so wtf knows. 

Wish me luck guys. Oy vey...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Starting my "new" old job with the contractor today. So many mixed emotions. They put me back in painter whites. I feel like the Pillsberry Dough Girl.
> 
> Supposedly I'll still be doing sign work but these guys have no idea what they're doing so wtf knows.
> 
> Wish me luck guys. Oy vey...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good luck! Hope they don't send you to Home Depot for supplies or anything


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## TooNice

Elizabeth001 said:


> Starting my "new" old job with the contractor today. So many mixed emotions. They put me back in painter whites. I feel like the Pillsberry Dough Girl.
> 
> Supposedly I'll still be doing sign work but these guys have no idea what they're doing so wtf knows.
> 
> Wish me luck guys. Oy vey...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hope the day went well!


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## Elizabeth001

Thanks guys. It was a tad overwhelming. Overall good (actually great but I am cautious) but too much to process. In able to explain, this post would be a mile long. I know I have my moments but I prefer a short and to the point post. More tomorrow. Long rainy day here in Virginia forecasted.

I'm going to sleep so good tonight!
*whew*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Date night! I can't believe I am at this point. This woman just blows me away. Just got off the phone from a 2 hour conversation (she is in another town at a soccer tourney). She called me to hear my voice. We are meeting when she gets back in town this evening. I swear every conversation I have had with her has been effortless. Sometimes I think someone gave her a cheat sheet with all the right answers on it, because she has yet to give me any pause. Either that or she is a mind reader. Or maybe we just mesh? I have yet to catch a "needy" vibe from her, or wonder what's up with this, other than to think this is to good to be true, but then maybe it isn't/ Either way, just knowing I can feel this way again, is a great relief. Because I never imagined I would, ever again.


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## RandomDude

You're infactuated, always a good thing... despite the blindness. Like drink driving. Have fun!


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> You're infactuated, always a good thing... despite the blindness. Like drink driving. Have fun!


Not disagreeing with you at all. But like I said, damn, I never thought I would feel this way again. Just knowing that I can feel that again is a huge step forward for me. I had kind of figured I would go thru the rest of my life never being able to truly connect with another person. But now I at least know it is possible and that makes me view my future much more positively than before.

And on another note - being able to recognize the feelings for what they are and NOT imagining they are something else is also a huge leap forward. This could develop into something long term, but that remains to be seen. If or when it ends I will be a sad, but not devastated.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Not disagreeing with you at all. But like I said, damn, I never thought I would feel this way again. Just knowing that I can feel that again is a huge step forward for me. I had kind of figured I would go thru the rest of my life never being able to truly connect with another person. But now I at least know it is possible and that makes me view my future much more positively than before.
> 
> And on another note - being able to recognize the feelings for what they are and NOT imagining they are something else is also a huge leap forward. This could develop into something long term, but that remains to be seen. If or when it ends I will be a sad, but not devastated.


I'm happy for you, @Ynot. I knew you would get here eventually, even when you didn't think so.

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## Satya

Ynot said:


> Date night! I can't believe I am at this point. This woman just blows me away. Just got off the phone from a 2 hour conversation (she is in another town at a soccer tourney). She called me to hear my voice. We are meeting when she gets back in town this evening. I swear every conversation I have had with her has been effortless. Sometimes I think someone gave her a cheat sheet with all the right answers on it, because she has yet to give me any pause. Either that or she is a mind reader. Or maybe we just mesh? I have yet to catch a "needy" vibe from her, or wonder what's up with this, other than to think this is to good to be true, but then maybe it isn't/ Either way, just knowing I can feel this way again, is a great relief. Because I never imagined I would, ever again.


/pokes head out from paper bag
@Ynot, that's great. Just keep a little cautious optimism there, ok?

Women are masters at identifying and molding themselves to meet men's varying needs. Make sure that's her actual personality, else she will have an identity dependant on your neediness/needs, and that's not healthy for either of you.

Fun... Flutters... With cautious optimism. 

I know, I know. I'll go put myself back in the killjoy pile now. 

/reseals bag


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## FeministInPink

@Satya has a great point. My XH was this way (molded/presented himself in a way so that I would think he was perfect for me, but it was mostly lies), so I'm very cautious in this respect now. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> @Satya has a great point. My XH was this way (molded/presented himself in a way so that I would think he was perfect for me, but it was mostly lies), so I'm very cautious in this respect now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


And I acknowledge her point and yours. But here are the good things about it. 
#1, I recognize this too as a possibility. In my past I might have just allowed the current to wash me downstream without realizing it. Now I recognize and realize it. 
#2 I never thought I would ever be capable of feeling this way - ever again. So it is great to know it is possible to know it can happen. 
#3 because I lived thru my divorce, my perspective had changed dramatically. If this ends, I know I will survive. Not only survive but be better for it in the end.


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> And I acknowledge her point and yours. But here are the good things about it.
> #1, I recognize this too as a possibility. In my past I might have just allowed the current to wash me downstream without realizing it. Now I recognize and realize it.
> #2 I never thought I would ever be capable of feeling this way - ever again. So it is great to know it is possible to know it can happen.
> #3 because I lived thru my divorce, my perspective had changed dramatically. If this ends, I know I will survive. Not only survive but be better for it in the end.


It's a difficult balance to find after what many of us have been through. In my case, I want to believe in the good. I know I deserve it. But there has been so much that was not good; both in my marriage and in the dating world. It is my nature to love easily and be free spirited and positive, but that can get beat down after a time.

I know what you mean about simply knowing it is possible to feel positive about relationships. I got that and more from the younger guy I had been seeing, and I think it prepped me in a few ways for the man I am seeing now. We joke that we are cautiously optimistic about how we have been feeling. Together, we acknowledge the doubts and the fears. It's a strange feeling... but I like it. 

I like your attitude. Have fun and know that no matter what, you will be just fine. <3


----------



## Ynot

TooNice said:


> It's a difficult balance to find after what many of us have been through. In my case, I want to believe in the good. I know I deserve it. But there has been so much that was not good; both in my marriage and in the dating world. It is my nature to love easily and be free spirited and positive, but that can get beat down after a time.
> 
> I know what you mean about simply knowing it is possible to feel positive about relationships. I got that and more from the younger guy I had been seeing, and I think it prepped me in a few ways for the man I am seeing now. We joke that we are cautiously optimistic about how we have been feeling. Together, we acknowledge the doubts and the fears. It's a strange feeling... but I like it.
> 
> I like your attitude. Have fun and know that no matter what, you will be just fine. <3


Yes, it is the whole "feeling I deserve this" aspect that is new to me. After my divorce I was so full of self loathing. I really believed nobody could possibly want me and if they did, there had to be something wrong with them. It is bad enough not liking yourself, but that makes it even more difficult to like someone who likes you. I still hear murmers in my mind, but I now write it off to old thought habits that don't entirely want to go away. I realize I really am worth it.


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## TooNice

Ynot said:


> I realize I really am worth it.


YES.

You absolutely are!


----------



## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> YES.
> 
> You absolutely are!


I agree!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TooNice

I posted the following last night in my journal thread, but I wanted to share it with my virtual friends here, too. It's not directly related to the Singles of TAM... yet it is. Running for me has been been a journey, an escape and a release in the whole process of my divorce. In dating, it has been a filter (Oh, you want me to skip my run tonight and meet you for dinner? No.) I am proud of myself in ways I never imagined I could be. And I can't wait to see what it feels like to cross the finish line. 
---------------------------------------

Ack. I am weeks away from running my first marathon. At age 45. 

This week of my training consists of the most miles, and they have been difficult runs. I am questioning my training (I should be cross training more, I'm not doing enough strength work), and I am doubting myself (I'm not ready, I'm not fast enough, I'm not strong enough).

I was nearly in tears on tonight's run thinking I can't do this. 

I have my last big run on Saturday - 22 miles. I can do this. I did 14. I did 16. I did 18. I did 20. And I did 16 again. I can do this. 

I'm blessed to be in several running groups and to have made friends with smart, experienced and positive people. Tonight they shared that crappy training runs happen. Crappy races happen. But Saturday's run will not be tonight's run. I'm prepared. I've got this. 

Running this marathon is about so much more than running a marathon. It's about overcoming... everything. It's about making a decision and working through the steps needed to make it happen. I'm proud of myself, and I have to remember that. 

And if y'all don't have runners in your life (even if you don't run), go make friends with some. They are awesome humans.


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## RandomDude

Grandma passed away, was so sudden... didn't even have a chance to say goodbye. Two strokes in a week, we thought she would recover as she was always strong, 80+ yet walked by herself, kept herself fit and strong, and had a young soul. Probably one of the strongest women I've ever known. I hate funerals though, think I'll remember her as she was the last time I saw her.


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> Grandma passed away, was so sudden... didn't even have a chance to say goodbye. Two strokes in a week, we thought she would recover as she was always strong, 80+ yet walked by herself, kept herself fit and strong, and had a young soul. Probably one of the strongest women I've ever known. I hate funerals though, think I'll remember her as she was the last time I saw her.


I'm so sorry, RD.


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## FeministInPink

@RandomDude, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Go to the funeral. You'll regret it if you don't. You'll remember her how your heart wants to remember her... the funeral won't change that.

*hugs*


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## 3Xnocharm

Im so sorry, RD. I agree that you really should go to the funeral.


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## RandomDude

Not a fan I'm afraid, I can't stand it. Rather have a quiet visit and say my personal farewells. Family will look down on me but as if that's new anyway.

Meh, just hate funerals - been to one, never again. Death is just too strong as an aura and saps the life outta me. I'd rather remember grandma as she lived.


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> I posted the following last night in my journal thread, but I wanted to share it with my virtual friends here, too. It's not directly related to the Singles of TAM... yet it is. Running for me has been been a journey, an escape and a release in the whole process of my divorce. In dating, it has been a filter (Oh, you want me to skip my run tonight and meet you for dinner? No.) I am proud of myself in ways I never imagined I could be. And I can't wait to see what it feels like to cross the finish line.
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Ack. I am weeks away from running my first marathon. At age 45.
> 
> This week of my training consists of the most miles, and they have been difficult runs. I am questioning my training (I should be cross training more, I'm not doing enough strength work), and I am doubting myself (I'm not ready, I'm not fast enough, I'm not strong enough).
> 
> I was nearly in tears on tonight's run thinking I can't do this.
> 
> I have my last big run on Saturday - 22 miles. I can do this. I did 14. I did 16. I did 18. I did 20. And I did 16 again. I can do this.
> 
> I'm blessed to be in several running groups and to have made friends with smart, experienced and positive people. Tonight they shared that crappy training runs happen. Crappy races happen. But Saturday's run will not be tonight's run. I'm prepared. I've got this.
> 
> Running this marathon is about so much more than running a marathon. It's about overcoming... everything. It's about making a decision and working through the steps needed to make it happen. I'm proud of myself, and I have to remember that.
> 
> And if y'all don't have runners in your life (even if you don't run), go make friends with some. They are awesome humans.


I always see those bumper stickers that say 5, or 13.1 or 26.2 to show they have run some distance. But my favorite was one that said "0" and underneath it said "I don't run"


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## Ynot

A good wake to celebrate a life well lived beats a boring wedding any day of the week!


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## Wolf1974

RandomDude said:


> Grandma passed away, was so sudden... didn't even have a chance to say goodbye. Two strokes in a week, we thought she would recover as she was always strong, 80+ yet walked by herself, kept herself fit and strong, and had a young soul. Probably one of the strongest women I've ever known. I hate funerals though, think I'll remember her as she was the last time I saw her.


Sorry to hear this RD. My grandmother is really important to me one of the strongest women I know. She is 91 and I know the day is coming and don't want it too. Sorry for your loss


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## ne9907

I am so sorry for you loss RandomDude...


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## Elizabeth001

So...I resigned from my new job with the contractor yesterday. It was a total cluster fick. After 20 years in the sign trade and over 10 years of managing the shop, they put my 48 year old a$$ back in man pants as a painter. The contractor has no idea what they’re doing and had me painting rotten sign posts. I can’t say much more because I signed a contract for my severance pay that says I can’t talk smack about the company or any of their contractors. Ugh. 

Anyhoo...I have 22 weeks of severance pay coming just like my paychecks did, every 2 weeks. I also cashed in 175ish hours of accrued vacation so I have time to figure out what to do. 
@Ynot my local Lowes is hiring and I’m really considering it. I don’t need tons of money, they offer bennies and it IS my favorite store 

I’m going to give myself a couple of weeks off to digest and rest. It is pretty scary not having health insurance for now, especially at my age. 

I’ll figure it out. I have a nice cushion between my 401k and stash in the bank. I’ve been through a lot worse. 

I had meant to update a week or so ago but I was so frustrated that I couldn’t bring myself to do it. 

On the bright side, if I’m working AT Lowes, my odds of finding a cute and single handyman go WAY up! Hahaaaa!











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## FeministInPink

If you would enjoy working at Lowe's, and you have so much severance coming to you, why not? You can sock that severance away as an emergency fund (or add to what you already have), and keep looking for something else.

Or, you might end up moving into management at Lowe's.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> On the bright side, if I’m working AT Lowes, my odds of finding a cute and single handyman go WAY up! Hahaaaa!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only if you go for the type of guy who would shop at Lowe's. Why not just troll for dates at 7-11? :smile2: Like I said REAL men shop at Home Depot! You shouldn't settle for a "Lowe's" kind of guy :laugh:


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> If you would enjoy working at Lowe's, and you have so much severance coming to you, why not? You can sock that severance away as an emergency fund (or add to what you already have), and keep looking for something else.
> 
> Or, you might end up moving into management at Lowe's.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




My thoughts exactly. But knowing that I have options is a great feeling!

I also reached out to a local sign shop that’s been around forever. I talked to one of their employees on my last day and he said they were crazy busy and really needed help. I also am pretty sure they are going to be doing a lot of the stuff that I used to do for my old company so I’m sure I would be very valuable to them. I called a couple of days ago and the lady sounded very excited but I haven’t heard back from the owner. I’ll give him a couple more days because I do know that he’s very busy. 

The downside with that is that they have no benefits whatsoever and I know he doesn’t like to pay much. He’s more about hiring non-experienced workers and paying them $10/hr, which is unacceptable to me. I think it’s pretty silly actually. You end up paying more in the end to train them and also their lack of efficiency by simply not knowing the trade. Also, they may or may not get the hang of it. The guy told me on Tuesday that the owner just let a girl go because she was too slow putting temporary signs together. I can do those with my eyes closed. lol He May realize that 10/hr won’t work with me and just decide not to call. I’m ok with that because if he’s that greedy and ignorant, I wouldn’t want to work for him anyway. We’ll see. 

Lastly, I think I’m ready for a change 


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Only if you go for the type of guy who would shop at Lowe's. Why not just troll for dates at 7-11? :smile2: Like I said REAL men shop at Home Depot! You shouldn't settle for a "Lowe's" kind of guy :laugh:






Actually, there’s a WaWa less than a block away. I thought about that too. Talk about a short commute! I also love dealing with the public and used to work at 7-11 when I was very young. The only thing I remember that I didn’t like was working night shift because it was so boring. The time seemed to NEVER pass. And it was a little scary. There was usually only me and the stock guy. He was usually hanging out in the cooler sipping beer all night. lol 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Actually, there’s a WaWa less than a block away. I thought about that too. Talk about a short commute! I also love dealing with the public and used to work at 7-11 when I was very young. The only thing I remember that I didn’t like was working night shift because it was so boring. The time seemed to NEVER pass. And it was a little scary. There was usually only me and the stock guy. He was usually hanging out in the cooler sipping beer all night. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did the night shift at the all night convenience store when I was in college. Lots of scary people out at 3-4 in the morning. But on the plus side I read every issue of Penthouse Forum.
"I was a freshman at a small Midwestern college when I met Sue...."
There was such an apparent formula to those "adventures". I guess I read too many if I was able to catch them haha!


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## Ynot

THIS thread should have it's own subforum within Talk About Divorce and Separation. All of us who are here, have been married, lived thru our divorce and are now on the other side thriving on our own. I have said for a while that while we all survive our divorces, that is about all some of people ever do - survive. There needs to be a sub forum for those of us who thrive post divorce to meet and talk. Or maybe all those married folks don't want to hear our success stories. They are afraid it might lead to more divorces?


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## Satya

Ynot said:


> THIS thread should have it's own subforum within Talk About Divorce and Separation. All of us who are here, have been married, lived thru our divorce and are now on the other side thriving on our own. I have said for a while that while we all survive our divorces, that is about all some of people ever do - survive. There needs to be a sub forum for those of us who thrive post divorce to meet and talk. Or maybe all those married folks don't want to hear our success stories. They are afraid it might lead to more divorces?


Heck no. I can understand, having been married once before. 

I lurk here, I once used to write here legitimately, before I met Odo.

This is the singles' place, so I try not to interfere, but I've always believed people should do what makes them happy in life. Some people just don't want to be married again. I was once in that boat, but I changed my mind.


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## Ynot

Satya said:


> Heck no. I can understand, having been married once before.
> 
> I lurk here, I once used to write here legitimately, before I met Odo.
> 
> This is the singles' place, so I try not to interfere, but I've always believed people should do what makes them happy in life. Some people just don't want to be married again. I was once in that boat, but I changed my mind.


Even if you married again, there should still be a place for those of us who made it successfully to the other side to celebrate and talk. Far too often, the LAD forum is about the misery of those suffering after a divorce (I was one of them). I just think there needs to be a place for those of us who were successful in our recoveries, hopefully to give some inspiration to those who are suffering in the aftermath of their divorces. Because even though I never imagined it would happen, my life is MUCH better than it was before (when I was married and right after I divorced)


----------



## Satya

Ynot said:


> Even if you married again, there should still be a place for those of us who made it successfully to the other side to celebrate and talk. Far too often, the LAD forum is about the misery of those suffering after a divorce (I was one of them). I just think there needs to be a place for those of us who were successful in our recoveries, hopefully to give some inspiration to those who are suffering in the aftermath of their divorces. Because even though I never imagined it would happen, my life is MUCH better than it was before (when I was married and right after I divorced)


Well, I'd appeal to the mods then, see if they'd add such a forum with stricter rules about the post topics.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

It just needs to be clear that the Singles subforum isnt for dating each other or hooking up. I have a feeling that's probably why there isnt one already.


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> It just needs to be clear that the Singles subforum isnt for dating each other or hooking up. I have a feeling that's probably why there isnt one already.


I have no problem with that and that was certainly not my intent. I just think that there are places for everyone to land, except for the people who thrive after divorce. Our stories and problems tend to get buried amid the devastation and heart break of those still suffering. I have nothing but empathy for those who are still struggling, because I was one of them for many many months.
By thriving I mean we have put our divorces behind us. We have moved on with our lives to new careers, new relationships with both our selves and others, we have gained a new lease on life and become better people for what we went thru. We are not stuck in our pasts, wallowing in guilt and self loathing, struggling to understand. Again I have nothing but empathy for anyone going thru that. Personally I think many would benefit from reading stories of true successes, so that they can come to understand that life really can get better and divorce is not the end of the world.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I knew that wasnt your intent  but I can see folks trying to turn it into our own internal dating site, if guidelines arent in place, lol...


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> I knew that wasnt your intent  but I can see folks trying to turn it into our own internal dating site, if guidelines arent in place, lol...


That would be sad. Because I think one of the truly great things about this site is our anonymity. While I would hope that I could be just as honest and open as I am if I had the intention of trying to meet up with others here, I just don't know if that would happen. And the same works in reverse. I assume when someone posts something that they are being open and honest about it as well. Knowing you can be open and honest because the chances of ever actually meeting others from here are relatively slim. I have met a few other members, but they have all been of the same sex and it was never considered (at least by me) as some sort of potential hook up.


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## RandomDude

My life and business might be ruined if my identity becomes public. So much dirt here I have wrote >.<


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## Elizabeth001

Yup. And my severance shot. lol 
@Ynot ...just sign up on pof and list yourself as divorced. 

Orrrr...shop at Lowes. 

Bwaaahaaaaa


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## Elizabeth001

So I’m at the park and at the half mark of our favorite trail. Resting the brats & having a smoke. 

I was just remembering a little over a year ago being so frustrated while I was here and pretending that I didn’t have to go back to a stressful home & that I was really going back to my own apartment where I could choose to do what I wanted. 

Well guess what? We are going to finish the trail and go back to not an apartment, but our house that we own! I am not constantly thinking about what I need to accomplish when I get there either. I am just enjoying the moment and when I get home, I’ll do whatever I feel like. 

I’m also thinking damn! I don’t have a job! But its not what I thought it would be. Today...and I DO stress TODAY. I really don’t give a fick. What was meant to be will. I think I need to stop stressing about tomorrow so much and start enjoying TODAY more. 

And also @Ynot: we already have a thread that you are asking about. We are posting in it right now 

Edited because my phone changed so much that it didn’t make sense 

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## Elizabeth001

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> So I’m at the park and at the half mark of our favorite trail. Resting the brats & having a smoke.
> 
> I was just remembering a little over a year ago being so frustrated while I was here and pretending that I didn’t have to go back to a stressful home & that I was really going back to my own apartment where I could choose to do what I wanted.
> 
> Well guess what? We are going to finish the trail and go back to not an apartment, but our house that we own! I am not constantly thinking about what I need to accomplish when I get there either. I am just enjoying the moment and when I get home, I’ll do whatever I feel like.
> 
> I’m also thinking damn! I don’t have a job! But its not what I thought it would be. Today...and I DO stress TODAY. I really don’t give a fick. What was meant to be will. I think I need to stop stressing about tomorrow so much and start enjoying TODAY more.
> 
> And also @Ynot: we already have a thread that you are asking about. We are posting in it right now
> 
> Edited because my phone changed so much that it didn’t make sense
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not a thread, a subforum. Just look in this thread alone. There are multiple on going story lines


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Not a thread, a subforum. Just look in this thread alone. There are multiple on going story lines




I guess I just don’t see a problem with that. It’s not like there are a gazillion replies to follow. Sometimes days go by without anyone posting to this thread.


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## FeministInPink

A lot of people, once they get through the problems that brought them here, leave. I've gotten to be good friends with a number of TAM who are no longer here. I'm not sure there would be enough traffic to support a forum for successful, happy post-divorcers. 

I, for one, am pretty happy with the Singles thread. And there's the whole "Life After Divorce" section if one wants to start their own post-divorce thread. 

It wouldn't be bad to see more POSITIVE threads in that section.

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## RandomDude

After enlightenment and ascending to a new plane of existence, I have found little need to post my relationship woes... as, I simply have none lol

Chances are I'll be back with my ruthless random vents and pouts of frustations with mehs and bahs and grrrs etc etc the minute cupid decides to shoot me in the ass again...

I have hence invested in buttock armor however, so the chances are slim


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> A lot of people, once they get through the problems that brought them here, leave. I've gotten to be good friends with a number of TAM who are no longer here. I'm not sure there would be enough traffic to support a forum for successful, happy post-divorcers.
> 
> I, for one, am pretty happy with the Singles thread. And there's the whole "Life After Divorce" section if one wants to start their own post-divorce thread.
> 
> It wouldn't be bad to see more POSITIVE threads in that section.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yep, and many leave because there is no place for them to post. They get to the other side and rather than wallow in the depression that many of us go thru in the immediate aftermath of our divorces they move one.

Life after Divorce now and for all I know always has been about life immediately after the divorce. While life may extend for decades after, it seems to limited to specifically dealing with the immediate aftermath. As I said I have nothing but empathy for those people as I was there not too long ago. But many have moved on to not only live but to thrive. Look at the two largest threads in the LAD subforum - The Singles of TAM and The Singles of TAM 2.0 if you want evidence. 

All I am saying is that rather than have all of the various stories of success lumped together, why not provide a place for them to be told on their own? Plus there are quite a few post divorce success stories in which the divorcee is no longer single but has remarried with their own set of challenges.


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## Bananapeel

Ynot said:


> Even if you married again, there should still be a place for those of us who made it successfully to the other side to celebrate and talk. Far too often, the LAD forum is about the misery of those suffering after a divorce (I was one of them). I just think there needs to be a place for those of us who were successful in our recoveries, hopefully to give some inspiration to those who are suffering in the aftermath of their divorces. Because even though I never imagined it would happen, my life is MUCH better than it was before (when I was married and right after I divorced)


I agree, but it seems that more people want to get involved and listen/help when your life isn't doing great than when it's on track and you're kicking butt. My life is pretty amazing ATM. But it wasn't bad when I was married, other than the short window when my wife was having an affair and she got crazy. My opinion is that divorce is a major life change and if handled correctly can be a great catalyst to change yourself and wipe out any complacency that prevented you from being your best. I'm a far better man than I was before the divorce because I didn't waste the opportunity to better myself, which in turn has made me more successful personally, professionally, and with my relationships. I think the self improvement is what really breeds the success after divorce that many of us are experiencing. Personally, after my divorce I got into great shape, have become very successful personally and professionally, have more money than ever before because I'm not supporting a SAHM, and gained a lot of self confidence by rediscovering my purpose and learning to be more direct with women. So, my ability to find and date higher quality women is to be expected since I'm a better quality man than I was before. 

My personal update for this year is I crossed an item off my bucket list which was learn a foreign language then vacation in that country. I also bought a new car and am casually dating a very attractive and fun woman, who is a major step up from my XW. Life's exceedingly busy but very fulfilling and I'm enjoying myself.


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## bkyln309

I wouldnt mind a subforum either though I dont mind posting here. I am happily divorced (almost 3 years out). Best thing I did was divorce my ex. No regrets. Overall my life is better and happier. It would be nice to not be identified about the divorce itself but where my life is as a single woman.

OH and Lowes over Home Depot any day!


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## Elizabeth001

bkyln309 said:


> OH and Lowes over Home Depot any day!



WOOT!
:-D




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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> I wouldnt mind a subforum either though I dont mind posting here. I am happily divorced (almost 3 years out). Best thing I did was divorce my ex. No regrets. Overall my life is better and happier. It would be nice to not be identified about the divorce itself but where my life is as a single woman.


I agree completely!!! Best thing ever to divorce him. I'm so much happier now. There are a few things that are more stressful, like living in a very expensive area on one income, but I make it work. I'd rather be happy and poor any day


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## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> I wouldnt mind a subforum either though I dont mind posting here. I am happily divorced (almost 3 years out). Best thing I did was divorce my ex. No regrets. Overall my life is better and happier. It would be nice to not be identified about the divorce itself but where my life is as a single woman.
> 
> OH and Lowes over Home Depot any day!


Stop enabling her bad life choices. You are not helping her! How are we ever going to not get married if she holds onto this horribly bad habit?


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## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> I agree, but it seems that more people want to get involved and listen/help when your life isn't doing great than when it's on track and you're kicking butt. My life is pretty amazing ATM. But it wasn't bad when I was married, other than the short window when my wife was having an affair and she got crazy. My opinion is that divorce is a major life change and if handled correctly can be a great catalyst to change yourself and wipe out any complacency that prevented you from being your best. I'm a far better man than I was before the divorce because I didn't waste the opportunity to better myself, which in turn has made me more successful personally, professionally, and with my relationships. I think the self improvement is what really breeds the success after divorce that many of us are experiencing. Personally, after my divorce I got into great shape, have become very successful personally and professionally, have more money than ever before because I'm not supporting a SAHM, and gained a lot of self confidence by rediscovering my purpose and learning to be more direct with women. So, my ability to find and date higher quality women is to be expected since I'm a better quality man than I was before.
> 
> My personal update for this year is I crossed an item off my bucket list which was learn a foreign language then vacation in that country. I also bought a new car and am casually dating a very attractive and fun woman, who is a major step up from my XW. Life's exceedingly busy but very fulfilling and I'm enjoying myself.


This^^^^^^ is the kind of post that gets buried in the avalanche, never to be seen by those who are still struggling. That is a great story that anyone should be inspired by. It is a reason I think a separate sub-forum would be a great idea.

BTW BP, great to hear I am in a similar boat now as well.


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## TooNice

So guess what, gang? 

I am a marathoner. Me: formerly obese, never active, only found running a few years ago... traveled 26.2 miles on foot yesterday.

It took me more than 5 1/2 hours, and I was so very tired in those last miles. I had the most amazing support network and fan section thanks to my son and his friends, and many of my friends who came out just for me or stayed after they finished their own race. I never could have imagined that this would be something I could do. I don't know that I ever would have even tried while I was married. But I did it. 

I am super emotional today and imagine I will be about this for some time. It's been an experience I know I will never forget. 

It's true - you never know what you are capable of until you try.


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## 3Xnocharm

How amazing!! Good for you!!


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## Ynot

TooNice said:


> So guess what, gang?
> 
> I am a marathoner. Me: formerly obese, never active, only found running a few years ago... traveled 26.2 miles on foot yesterday.
> 
> It took me more than 5 1/2 hours, and I was so very tired in those last miles. I had the most amazing support network and fan section thanks to my son and his friends, and many of my friends who came out just for me or stayed after they finished their own race. I never could have imagined that this would be something I could do. I don't know that I ever would have even tried while I was married. But I did it.
> 
> I am super emotional today and imagine I will be about this for some time. It's been an experience I know I will never forget.
> 
> It's true - you never know what you are capable of until you try.


Now that is something to be proud of! Great job! 
:allhail:


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## Elizabeth001

You go girl! The only place I’m running to is the fridge for some ice cream. But I will have a dip in your honor tonight!!

Seriously...has to be an awesome feeling. Good for you!!


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> You go girl! The only place I’m running to is the fridge for some ice cream. But I will have a dip in your honor tonight!!
> 
> Seriously...has to be an awesome feeling. Good for you!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably a fridge you bought at Lowes!


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Probably a fridge you bought at Lowes!




Well it came with the house but if I need a new one, you know it! Hopefully I’ll get an employee discount!







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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well it came with the house but if I need a new one, you know it! Hopefully I’ll get an employee discount!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NOOOOO!!!! Say it aint so! Now we will never not get married! I could never stoop so low! haha


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## Elizabeth001

I’m not there yet. Calm down. lol Very seriously leaning that way though. I need another week to think about it. 

Btw...met a really nice man. Had an awesome first date. I can see this going somewhere. We’ll see. 


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## tripad

TooNice said:


> So guess what, gang?
> 
> I am a marathoner. Me: formerly obese, never active, only found running a few years ago... traveled 26.2 miles on foot yesterday.
> 
> It took me more than 5 1/2 hours, and I was so very tired in those last miles. I had the most amazing support network and fan section thanks to my son and his friends, and many of my friends who came out just for me or stayed after they finished their own race. I never could have imagined that this would be something I could do. I don't know that I ever would have even tried while I was married. But I did it.
> 
> I am super emotional today and imagine I will be about this for some time. It's been an experience I know I will never forget.
> 
> It's true - you never know what you are capable of until you try.


HI everyone , I have not checked in for a long time . Busy with work and kids .

I have not been on my routine run n exercise for a couple of months , trying hard to squeeze in once a week . And I thought after the next two weeks of business , I got to get back into run again . Thought of training for a marathon , so that I can go onto those run n trek trip into the mountains which include a day or two of exploration into the road less travelled . Then , I felt discouraged , thinking that I wont be able to do it . I was fit and sporty all along but never the hard core super fit marathon type .

SO WHEN I READ YOUR MESSAGE , IT WAS REALLY AWESOME N ENCOURAGING . IT IS LIKE GOD SENT , TELLING ME I CAN DO IT TOO !!!!!!


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I’m not there yet. Calm down. lol Very seriously leaning that way though. I need another week to think about it.
> 
> Btw...met a really nice man. Had an awesome first date. I can see this going somewhere. We’ll see.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hopefully he lives a moral and upstanding life by avoiding Lowes and only shopping at Home Depot! Have you broached the subject with him yet? Better to find out now then after you have invested any time haha


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> Hopefully he lives a moral and upstanding life by avoiding Lowes and only shopping at Home Depot! Have you broached the subject with him yet? Better to find out now then after you have invested any time haha




I’ll make sure he knows before I sleep with him 


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I’ll make sure he knows before I sleep with him
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You know the old saying - Unless you go Depot, you'll never have big O's!


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## Elizabeth001

Yeah...they should have spelled it LOHHHs. Bwaahaaa 


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## TooNice

tripad said:


> HI everyone , I have not checked in for a long time . Busy with work and kids .
> 
> I have not been on my routine run n exercise for a couple of months , trying hard to squeeze in once a week . And I thought after the next two weeks of business , I got to get back into run again . Thought of training for a marathon , so that I can go onto those run n trek trip into the mountains which include a day or two of exploration into the road less travelled . Then , I felt discouraged , thinking that I wont be able to do it . I was fit and sporty all along but never the hard core super fit marathon type .
> 
> SO WHEN I READ YOUR MESSAGE , IT WAS REALLY AWESOME N ENCOURAGING . IT IS LIKE GOD SENT , TELLING ME I CAN DO IT TOO !!!!!!


This makes me so happy, tripad. I am about to share my running story on social media... including a photo of what I looked at when I weighed the most. It's a tough thing to do, but I hope I inspire someone through sharing. So, thank you for the extra motivation to do something else that is difficult!

And YES. You CAN do it!


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## tripad

TooNice said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> 
> HI everyone , I have not checked in for a long time . Busy with work and kids .
> 
> I have not been on my routine run n exercise for a couple of months , trying hard to squeeze in once a week . And I thought after the next two weeks of business , I got to get back into run again . Thought of training for a marathon , so that I can go onto those run n trek trip into the mountains which include a day or two of exploration into the road less travelled . Then , I felt discouraged , thinking that I wont be able to do it . I was fit and sporty all along but never the hard core super fit marathon type .
> 
> SO WHEN I READ YOUR MESSAGE , IT WAS REALLY AWESOME N ENCOURAGING . IT IS LIKE GOD SENT , TELLING ME I CAN DO IT TOO !!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> This makes me so happy, tripad. I am about to share my running story on social media... including a photo of what I looked at when I weighed the most. It's a tough thing to do, but I hope I inspire someone through sharing. So, thank you for the extra motivation to do something else that it difficult!
> 
> And YES. You CAN do it!
Click to expand...

YES DEFINITELY IT WILL BE INSPIRING ESPECIALLY IF YOU SAID YOU WERE A DRASTIC CHANGE FROM OBESE TO FINISHING A MARATHON !!!!!!

For me I was all along sporty yet thinking i cant do it . 

So you are awesome !!!!!!

YOU SHLD DO THAT SOCIAL MEDIA THING !!!!


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## tripad

M planning another ski trip this Dec after the last blast in March of which my boys said it was their best holiday ever and asked me if they could have it again .

So Dec ski trip it is !!!!!! 

Feels great i can do all these without my ex throwing his n his family's debts at me during the marriage . 

I should have thrown him to the curb much earlier


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## TooNice

tripad said:


> YES DEFINITELY IT WILL BE INSPIRING ESPECIALLY IF YOU SAID YOU WERE A DRASTIC CHANGE FROM OBESE TO FINISHING A MARATHON !!!!!!
> 
> For me I was all along sporty yet thinking i cant do it .
> 
> So you are awesome !!!!!!
> 
> YOU SHLD DO THAT SOCIAL MEDIA THING !!!!


Thank you!

I understand that not everyone WANTS to do something like running a marathon. But my experience makes it very difficult for me to have someone tell me they CAN'T do one. It's all perspective and drive. You can absolutely do anything you decide, if you want it badly enough. 

I did share my story last night. It was very hard to do. I was shaking as the responses started to come in. I just hope people know that I am not trying to show off or brag or call attention to myself. I honestly and truly want people to know that being healthy is something that we all struggle with, and that we can make changes in our lives. I am very, very proud of this accomplishment. I would love it if I have inspired even just one person to make changes that make them feel as great as I do right now!


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## Bananapeel

@TooNice - Maybe, just maybe, I'll get motivated enough to run a half marathon and cite you as my inspiration. I wish I had a friend locally to run with to help me get motivated enough to commit. I run twice a week as a break between lifting days but have never really enjoyed it and mostly do it out of habit. But I think it would feel awesome to do a 1/2 and have that memory for the rest of my life. How hard is it to train? I usually just run about 3 miles a day, but occasionally do 5 miles if I'm watching a longer TV show while I'm on the treadmill.


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## wilson

TooNice said:


> This makes me so happy, tripad. I am about to share my running story on social media... including a photo of what I looked at when I weighed the most. It's a tough thing to do, but I hope I inspire someone through sharing. So, thank you for the extra motivation to do something else that is difficult!


Yes! Definitely do this. So many people think they can't, but it's just a mental limitation. I'm sure someone will see your story and it will motivate them in some way. Even if they don't run a marathon, it will encourage them to be more active.

If anyone has any doubts that they can accomplish something like this, be a spectator at a marathon and see all the different types of people who cross the finish line. Of course there are the stereotypical runners, but you'll see every age and body type also out there having a great time. It's very inspirational!


----------



## TooNice

Bananapeel said:


> @TooNice - Maybe, just maybe, I'll get motivated enough to run a half marathon and cite you as my inspiration. I wish I had a friend locally to run with to help me get motivated enough to commit. I run twice a week as a break between lifting days but have never really enjoyed it and mostly do it out of habit. But I think it would feel awesome to do a 1/2 and have that memory for the rest of my life. How hard is it to train? I usually just run about 3 miles a day, but occasionally do 5 miles if I'm watching a longer TV show while I'm on the treadmill.


Everyone is different, but for me, it was forming a plan and sticking to it. I did a schedule loosely based off of Hal Higdon's plans. I typically ran Monday/Wednesday/Saturday and either Thursday or Friday. Wednesdays started at 3-4 miles and crept up to 10 by a few weeks before the run. The other weekday runs were 3-6. The big one is the weekend long run to build up miles. 

Do you have active Meetup groups in your area? Meet up is an awesome website/app to find common interests, including running. Or check out your local running stores. Or the organizations that put on the races in your area. I am willing to bet you can find some groups nearby to run with. Runners are amazing people and always so happy to share their experience and knowledge. I would never have made it through Sunday without the support of the people I have met. 

I hope you decide to give it a shot - it sounds like you already have a great base! I have also done 4 half marathons, and there really isn't anything quite like crossing the finish line!


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## TooNice

wilson said:


> If anyone has any doubts that they can accomplish something like this, be a spectator at a marathon and see all the different types of people who cross the finish line. Of course there are the stereotypical runners, but you'll see every age and body type also out there having a great time. It's very inspirational!


Oh my goodness, this is so true! It's awe-inspiring, for sure.


----------



## Bananapeel

OK, I took the first step. There's a half marathon in a year from now and I gave my e-mail address to have a "save the date" sent to me when registration begins. There was a training schedule online and it looks fairly straight forward with a 12 week training plan. There is a training group on meetup but their race is in a couple weeks, so I'll have to wait for next year's training group.


----------



## TooNice

Bananapeel said:


> OK, I took the first step. There's a half marathon in a year from now and I gave my e-mail address to have a "save the date" sent to me when registration begins. There was a training schedule online and it looks fairly straight forward with a 12 week training plan. There is a training group on meetup but their race is in a couple weeks, so I'll have to wait for next year's training group.


That's fantastic - congrats! I can't wait to hear how your training goes!


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## CatJayBird

I'm supposed to have my first real date this weekend! I hope this dude doesn't flake out on me!!


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## Ynot

I am "running" the Ale Trail. 37 stops at different breweries, that counts for something doesn't it?


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## Ynot

CatJayBird said:


> I'm supposed to have my first real date this weekend! I hope this dude doesn't flake out on me!!


So?


----------



## CatJayBird

He didn't flake! It was nice. We had dinner at my favorite restaurant and then saw IT. Great conversation, lots of touching during the movie...little bit of making out at my place afterwards. Both of us were kinda awkward nervous...lol, but it was good. He opened doors and walked sorta behind/beside me, which I was like...wtf is he doing? lol. 

No second date planned yet.


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## CatJayBird

and I should clarify what I mean by first real date....as in a date with someone I think might go somewhere and not just a hookup.


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## FeministInPink

@TooNice That's awesome about the marathon! I am very proud of you. And yes, I think your example could inspire others 
@CatJayBird Hooray for a successful date! But remember... it's just a date, not a relationship. Don't invest or expect too much too early.


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## CatJayBird

Yes.... We've been talking since midAugust. No expectations! It was extremely nice to finally meet him...lol.


----------



## FeministInPink

I'm super excited! Real Estate got us tickets to see _Book of Mormon_ for when the touring company is in town. I've wanted to see this show for a long time now.

He's knows I really want to see _Hamilton_, but the ticket availability and the cost makes that very unlikely. This is a great alternate!


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## Ynot

So my relationship to the woman I met at the Meet Up is going great. We are six weeks into it, we both keep joking that we are waiting for the other shoe to drop - but so far no red flags! We are planning an antiversary trip for the end of the month. My anniversary would have been the 20th and hers the 28th. So we are going away for a weekend. In the meantime we have been skipping and holding hands all over the Home Depot.


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## FeministInPink

It would seem that Real Estate and I have hit a speed bump, or is it a road block?

We've been together a year and a half, and he is finally referring to me as his girlfriend. We are an established couple; he knows all my friends, I know all his, and invitations are extended to us as a couple. I feel like we've made a lot of progress, and I've accepted and am ok with the fact that he doesn't want a live-in girlfriend (despite the fact that he wants me at his place all the time), and that he doesn't want to get married again. Things have been going great, and we're both really happy.

My cousin is getting married in January. She sent me the save-the date-ages ago, and I went to her shower two weeks ago. I've mentioned it to Real Estate, but never brought up the idea of him going with me, because I didn't know if I was going to get a plus one or not. But a week ago, my cousin texted me to ask if she should address the invite to FIP+Real Estate, or just FIP+Guest. I said FIP+Guest, since she and her fiance don't actually know Real Estate. The invitation arrived a few days ago.

Now, if this was a friend's wedding, it wouldn't be an issue. Real Estate would come as my guest, we'd have a great time, and that would be it. But he's said on several occasions, off-hand, that he's never going to meet my family. So I had no idea how this was going to turn out, me inviting him to go with me.

Sunday night, we finished up watching _The Deuce_, and I said, so my cousin is getting married in January, and I was hoping you would be my date. And he says where? and I say outside of Philly, and he says check the Detroit Red Wings schedule to see if they are playing the Flyers that weekend. Because that's how he's going to make the decision, apparently.

Well, the Red Wings are playing in Philly two weeks later. And he starts on about how him going with me to the wedding sends a certain message about our relationship, and maybe we need to have a conversation about where our relationship is going, etc, etc. I say that I understand and accept that he doesn't want to have a live-in girlfriend and that he doesn't want to get married, and that's not what this is about, and do we really need to have this conversation right now? He says he needs some time to think about it, and he takes the dog out before we turn in for the night.

When he comes back, I say, "I know you need some time to think about this, so you can take all the time you need, but there is one more thing I need to say before we close this discussion for now. Being my date for my cousin's wedding, which yes, will include meeting my family, doesn't determine what our relationship is or where it is going. We decide what our relationship is for ourselves--what other people may think or interpret doesn't define our relationship, we do. You are one of the most important people in my life, and I want to share the important things, but the good and the bad, the big and the small with you. If you are going to refuse to participate in anything where my family might be present, that means that I can't share with you the biggest and most important stuff. For example, what if I decide to get another degree? You won't come to the graduation ceremony to support me because my parents will be there? Because I want you there for that stuff. I want my most important person there, to share these experiences with."

I don't want a stupid wedding invitation to be the thing that ends us. I can understand if he doesn't want a live-in partner or marriage again, but you can't be in a LTR without meeting your girlfriend's family at some point in time. There are weddings, there are special events. I don't want a part-time boyfriend, who only exists as long as my family doesn't.


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## Satya

FIP, I'm sorry to read about his reaction.

You're asking him to be your date. That's all. And I'm glad about the response you gave him about the two of you defining the relationship, not others.

I'm kind of irked he wants to make a decision based on a game. That's lame, unless it's his way of just avoiding discussing the real reason for his discomfort. If he wants to remain a mystery and avoid your family, not cool. Your family is an extension of you. As a woman who had an ex-husband who did NOTHING with her when it came to family ANYTHING (holidays, funerals, etc) I'm urging you to not let this drop, because it will come up again in the future until it wears you down. I realized just how bad it was when someone referred to my husband as a figment of my imagination. Husband, boyfriend, whatever, if he's part of your life, he doesn't get to pick and choose what parts suit him.


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## Ynot

FIP you didn't say what his response was. FTR, this might be a big turning point for him. Rather than consider it a road block perhaps it is more like a fork in the road. He might be seriously thrown out of his comfort zone about it because some of these things might be things that he has already been considering in the abstract but now they are real. It sounds more like he needs to have a conversation with himself and then have a conversation with you. I guess my advice would be to give him some time to think about it and come to some conclusions but you should definitely address the issue again soon. Don't be too upset at his hesitancy, it is a sign that the relationship is growing.


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## farsidejunky

FeministInPink said:


> It would seem that Real Estate and I have hit a speed bump, or is it a road block?
> 
> We've been together a year and a half, and he is finally referring to me as his girlfriend. We are an established couple; he knows all my friends, I know all his, and invitations are extended to us as a couple. I feel like we've made a lot of progress, and I've accepted and am ok with the fact that he doesn't want a live-in girlfriend (despite the fact that he wants me at his place all the time), and that he doesn't want to get married again. Things have been going great, and we're both really happy.
> 
> My cousin is getting married in January. She sent me the save-the date-ages ago, and I went to her shower two weeks ago. I've mentioned it to Real Estate, but never brought up the idea of him going with me, because I didn't know if I was going to get a plus one or not. But a week ago, my cousin texted me to ask if she should address the invite to FIP+Real Estate, or just FIP+Guest. I said FIP+Guest, since she and her fiance don't actually know Real Estate. The invitation arrived a few days ago.
> 
> Now, if this was a friend's wedding, it wouldn't be an issue. Real Estate would come as my guest, we'd have a great time, and that would be it. But he's said on several occasions, off-hand, that he's never going to meet my family. So I had no idea how this was going to turn out, me inviting him to go with me.
> 
> Sunday night, we finished up watching _The Deuce_, and I said, so my cousin is getting married in January, and I was hoping you would be my date. And he says where? and I say outside of Philly, and he says check the Detroit Red Wings schedule to see if they are playing the Flyers that weekend. Because that's how he's going to make the decision, apparently.
> 
> Well, the Red Wings are playing in Philly two weeks later. And he starts on about how him going with me to the wedding sends a certain message about our relationship, and maybe we need to have a conversation about where our relationship is going, etc, etc. I say that I understand and accept that he doesn't want to have a live-in girlfriend and that he doesn't want to get married, and that's not what this is about, and do we really need to have this conversation right now? He says he needs some time to think about it, and he takes the dog out before we turn in for the night.
> 
> When he comes back, I say, "I know you need some time to think about this, so you can take all the time you need, but there is one more thing I need to say before we close this discussion for now. Being my date for my cousin's wedding, which yes, will include meeting my family, doesn't determine what our relationship is or where it is going. We decide what our relationship is for ourselves--what other people may think or interpret doesn't define our relationship, we do. You are one of the most important people in my life, and I want to share the important things, but the good and the bad, the big and the small with you. If you are going to refuse to participate in anything where my family might be present, that means that I can't share with you the biggest and most important stuff. For example, what if I decide to get another degree? You won't come to the graduation ceremony to support me because my parents will be there? Because I want you there for that stuff. I want my most important person there, to share these experiences with."
> 
> I don't want a stupid wedding invitation to be the thing that ends us. I can understand if he doesn't want a live-in partner or marriage again, but you can't be in a LTR without meeting your girlfriend's family at some point in time. There are weddings, there are special events. I don't want a part-time boyfriend, who only exists as long as my family doesn't.


You have two separate issues here. 

The first is him wanting to make the decision to go to this wedding based on whether or not there's a game. This makes me question just how much of a priority you are in his life.

The second is this fear of appearing to be in a serious relationship. Just who is the invisible person, sitting on his shoulder, judging him for what things appear to be?

Both problems make me question his maturity.

FIP, after a year-and-a-half, it really is time for him to be all in...or not. For the record, all in does not necessarily mean marriage, either. I question whether he has the maturity to make this decision. This means you may have to make it for him.


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## Elizabeth001

I really don’t like this fip. I can’t believe the level of patience you possess!

It all may have been a knee jerk reaction. That doesn’t make it ok but I would give it some time for him to mull it over. I agree with the others...a heart to heart discussion needs to happen soon. A year of your life is nothing to sneeze at. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974

FIP

For someone who has convinced himself he wants this thing with you casual he sure has a lot of rules about how things will go. And I notice those rules are made with the exclusion of what you may want. After a year and 1/2 not meeting the family is just beyond bizarre to me. I think you make good points and if he can’t ever be around family the really what is the point? As you say you can’t exclude one or the other from monumental life things. 

I wonder what would happen if you told him that if he won’t come that you’ll have to find another date to accompany you...you know since he wants things so casual.


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## Elizabeth001

Wolf1974 said:


> FIP
> 
> 
> 
> For someone who has convinced himself he wants this thing with you casual he sure has a lot of rules about how things will go. And I notice those rules are made with the exclusion of what you may want. After a year and 1/2 not meeting the family is just beyond bizarre to me. I think you make good points and if he can’t ever be around family the really what is the point? As you say you can’t exclude one or the other from monumental life things.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if you told him that if he won’t come that you’ll have to find another date to accompany you...you know since he wants things so casual.




Oooooh. Good question. That’s kind of game playing though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

@Satya @Ynot @farsidejunky @Elizabeth001 @Wolf1974

Thank you all for your comments and insight.

I would like to clarify one thing, which I should have done in the previous post. I don't think he's using the game to make a decision. He's a die-hard Red Wings fan, and he never gets to see them play except when they come to DC and play the Caps. Every time we talk about going somewhere for a trip, the first thing we do is check the Red Wings schedule to see if they'll be in town playing a game. It's a thing we do. I believe he meant it as a joke.
@Satya My XH avoided family stuff whenever humanly possible; I let it slide, as I was able to use it to my advantage as a reson to never see HIS parents. My XH's parents were awful, dysfunctional, abusive people, and I also hated who my XH became when he was around them.

But you're right, my family is an extension of me, and I want a partner who will do these family things, too. As much as I may complain about my mother, and limit family stuff so I can limit my interaction with her, my family is still very important to me and is a big part of who I am.
@Ynot (What does FTR mean?) I do think this is something that is pushing him out of his comfort zone. Hell, our entire relationship has been a series of pushing him out of his comfort zone. And he does not make quick decisions, especially when it's something out of his comfort zone. The worst outcome would have been an absolute refusal, but the fact that he wants to think about it means that he's considering it; if he's considering it, it means he recognizes that his answer may likely determine the future of our relationship. If he needs that time to grow into it, I'm happy to give it to him. I don't need to RSVP until November 21 

I didn't say what his response was, because I didn't ask him for one. I just wanted him to think about it, and I told him that we would talk about it again after he's had time to think it over. The one thing I have learned about Real Estate is that if I push him for an answer on something, when he wants time to think it over, he feels pressured and instinctively gives the opposite answer of what he feels he's being pressured to give. He does NOT like to be pushed or pressured into anything. Which is why I stayed calm when I explained why this was important to me, to make sure he was listening and really heard what I was saying.
@farsidejunky I don't think it is so much maturity as it is plain stubborness. Real Estate is one of the most stubborn men I have EVER met. After his XW left, he spent YEARS convincing himself and everyone else that he would never be in another relationship, that he would never have a girlfriend again, let alone a live-in girlfriend or wife. So every big step we take, it means that he's eating a huge serving of humble pie, and even if it's something he wants, his pride makes it really hard for him. When he finally introduced me to his friends (which was a really big deal), I didn't make a big deal out of it. (His friends made a big deal out of it, they gave him a hard time and teased him for keeping me a "secret" for so long.) When he started referring to me as his girlfriend (again, a really big deal), I didn't make a big deal, I just rolled with it. He has these iron-clad definitions for things, like if he refers to me as his girlfriend, that means he would consider marrying me at some point, which is not the definition that most people have of the term girlfriend! It's certainly not the definition that I would use. Every step forward in our relationship has meant that he has to eat his words and admit to himself that he was wrong. With each step forward, he finds himself in a place he had convinced himself he would never revisit.

You are correct... we're getting to the point where he needs to decide if he is all in, or not. After a year and a half, he should know me well enough and trust me to make a commitment. I think there's a lot of fear there, however. I think that's the biggest part of what is holding him back. If he is unable to go all in, you're right--I may have to make that decision myself. It's not a decision I want to make, because if I have to make that decision, it means I will have to be the one to end it. And I don't want to, because he makes me incredibly happy.
@Elizabeth001 I knew what I was getting into with him. I knew a relationship with him would require a lot of patience, because it would be a lot of baby steps for him. Even if it ends, the time will have been worth it. I've grown and learned so much in this relationship. I'm better off for having known him, even if it ends.
@Wolf1974 I think it's fear. I think he's waiting for the other shoe to drop, for things to end abruptly, and he's trying to protect himself. He's much more invested than he appears or is willing to admit, I think.



> I wonder what would happen if you told him that if he won’t come that you’ll have to find another date to accompany you...you know since he wants things so casual.


I can tell you exactly what would happen. That would end everything right there. I would never do that to him. We have been exclusive/monogamous very early on, and I take that very seriously. His XW cheated on him... for me to threaten such a thing would hurt him so much that he and I would never recover. I would never do that to him, never. Game playing is never a good idea.


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## Ynot

FIP, FTR means For the Record, good to hear that you are aware of the boundaries you are up against. Sometimes we force our partners past them, or allow them to push us past ours and the result is resentment. I think boundaries should be firm, but as life and relationships change, we all tend to need to adapt to more "defensible" borders than what we may have had as previously. It isn't a matter of submission or surrender but rather one of compromise and growth.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> FIP, FTR means For the Record, good to hear that you are aware of the boundaries you are up against. Sometimes we force our partners past them, or allow them to push us past ours and the result is resentment. I think boundaries should be firm, but as life and relationships change, we all tend to need to adapt to more "defensible" borders than what we may have had as previously. It isn't a matter of submission or surrender but rather one of compromise and growth.


Agreed. And I think that most of his boundaries have been established out of fear and self-preservation. Boundaries sometimes change as relationships grow and deepen. 

And there are a number of ways that he has let me in, which have strengthened our intimacy in ways that he has never done/explored with other partners before, not even with his XW in a number of instances. He trusts me immensely... but because he has allowed himself to be so vulnerable with me, I think in a way, that intensifies his fear even more.

He is a very complicated man.


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## RandomDude

Reflecting on recent life experiences has made me draw some parallels of your relationship with Real Estate and my relationship with my ex-GF. Sometimes I wonder about his emotional unavailability but more importantly, the aspect of your attraction to him, whether it's genuine, or if it's due to his emotional unavailability. For some reason, it drives women crazy, is it due to wanting something one can not have? Anyway I don't know... just putting ideas out there FIP, hope I don't offend.

I surely hope he's not like me despite some of your posts about him being very relatable for me. Because if he is, you have only scratched the surface of his vulnerability, the 'vulnerable' aspects of him that he gives as teasers to continue the masquerade, while the core remains solid and untouchable. No matter how great you are as a person, no one can change him except himself - and if he decides, like I have, that he does not wish to compromise on his ways, then it may be devastating. Just worried 'tis all, I did not enjoy what I had to do with ex-GF.


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Reflecting on recent life experiences has made me draw some parallels of your relationship with Real Estate and my relationship with my ex-GF. Sometimes I wonder about his emotional unavailability but more importantly, the aspect of your attraction to him, whether it's genuine, or if it's due to his emotional unavailability. For some reason, it drives women crazy, is it due to wanting something one can not have? Anyway I don't know... just putting ideas out there FIP, hope I don't offend.
> 
> I surely hope he's not like me despite some of your posts about him being very relatable for me. Because if he is, you have only scratched the surface of his vulnerability, the 'vulnerable' aspects of him that he gives as teasers to continue the masquerade, while the core remains solid and untouchable. No matter how great you are as a person, no one can change him except himself - and if he decides, like I have, that he does not wish to compromise on his ways, then it may be devastating. Just worried 'tis all, I did not enjoy what I had to do with ex-GF.


You do not offend. The thought has crossed my mind. I would be lying if I said it hadn't.


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## RandomDude

Well... damn 

Let us hope it is not the case. My instinctive advice is to say; "be prepared for disappointment", but that, ironically, also builds the very same boundaries you are facing. So... I don't really know what to say =/


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Well... damn
> 
> Let us hope it is not the case. My instinctive advice is to say; "be prepared for disappointment", but that, ironically, also builds the very same boundaries you are facing. So... I don't really know what to say =/


I'm keeping myself open to the best possible outcome, because I don't what to shut myself off by creating artificial boundaries like that. To close oneself off from love means that you are guaranteed to never find it. If I am disappointed, if this ends, it will mean that the relationship has run its course, and I am aware that is a possible, but I'm not worried about that now. I'm trying to focus on the present and see what happens. Whatever happens, I know I will be OK.


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## RandomDude

Heh, you sound like my ex with that response... it's almost scary. Anything can happen in your case however. You understand the risks it seems, and you are willing to deal with the consequences. In such a case, I can only encourage.


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## Wolf1974

Elizabeth001 said:


> Oooooh. Good question. That’s kind of game playing though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He is already playing a game nothing wrong with returning a serve :laugh:


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## Satya

FeministInPink said:


> @Satya @Ynot @farsidejunky @Elizabeth001 @Wolf1974
> 
> Thank you all for your comments and insight.
> 
> I would like to clarify one thing, which I should have done in the previous post. I don't think he's using the game to make a decision. He's a die-hard Red Wings fan, and he never gets to see them play except when they come to DC and play the Caps. Every time we talk about going somewhere for a trip, the first thing we do is check the Red Wings schedule to see if they'll be in town playing a game. It's a thing we do. I believe he meant it as a joke.
> 
> @Satya My XH avoided family stuff whenever humanly possible; I let it slide, as I was able to use it to my advantage as a reson to never see HIS parents. My XH's parents were awful, dysfunctional, abusive people, and I also hated who my XH became when he was around them.
> 
> But you're right, my family is an extension of me, and I want a partner who will do these family things, too. As much as I may complain about my mother, and limit family stuff so I can limit my interaction with her, my family is still very important to me and is a big part of who I am.
> 
> @Ynot (What does FTR mean?) I do think this is something that is pushing him out of his comfort zone. Hell, our entire relationship has been a series of pushing him out of his comfort zone. And he does not make quick decisions, especially when it's something out of his comfort zone. The worst outcome would have been an absolute refusal, but the fact that he wants to think about it means that he's considering it; if he's considering it, it means he recognizes that his answer may likely determine the future of our relationship. If he needs that time to grow into it, I'm happy to give it to him. I don't need to RSVP until November 21
> 
> I didn't say what his response was, because I didn't ask him for one. I just wanted him to think about it, and I told him that we would talk about it again after he's had time to think it over. The one thing I have learned about Real Estate is that if I push him for an answer on something, when he wants time to think it over, he feels pressured and instinctively gives the opposite answer of what he feels he's being pressured to give. He does NOT like to be pushed or pressured into anything. Which is why I stayed calm when I explained why this was important to me, to make sure he was listening and really heard what I was saying.
> 
> @farsidejunky I don't think it is so much maturity as it is plain stubborness. Real Estate is one of the most stubborn men I have EVER met. After his XW left, he spent YEARS convincing himself and everyone else that he would never be in another relationship, that he would never have a girlfriend again, let alone a live-in girlfriend or wife. So every big step we take, it means that he's eating a huge serving of humble pie, and even if it's something he wants, his pride makes it really hard for him. When he finally introduced me to his friends (which was a really big deal), I didn't make a big deal out of it. (His friends made a big deal out of it, they gave him a hard time and teased him for keeping me a "secret" for so long.) When he started referring to me as his girlfriend (again, a really big deal), I didn't make a big deal, I just rolled with it. He has these iron-clad definitions for things, like if he refers to me as his girlfriend, that means he would consider marrying me at some point, which is not the definition that most people have of the term girlfriend! It's certainly not the definition that I would use. Every step forward in our relationship has meant that he has to eat his words and admit to himself that he was wrong. With each step forward, he finds himself in a place he had convinced himself he would never revisit.
> 
> You are correct... we're getting to the point where he needs to decide if he is all in, or not. After a year and a half, he should know me well enough and trust me to make a commitment. I think there's a lot of fear there, however. I think that's the biggest part of what is holding him back. If he is unable to go all in, you're right--I may have to make that decision myself. It's not a decision I want to make, because if I have to make that decision, it means I will have to be the one to end it. And I don't want to, because he makes me incredibly happy.
> 
> @Elizabeth001 I knew what I was getting into with him. I knew a relationship with him would require a lot of patience, because it would be a lot of baby steps for him. Even if it ends, the time will have been worth it. I've grown and learned so much in this relationship. I'm better off for having known him, even if it ends.
> 
> @Wolf1974 I think it's fear. I think he's waiting for the other shoe to drop, for things to end abruptly, and he's trying to protect himself. He's much more invested than he appears or is willing to admit, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you exactly what would happen. That would end everything right there. I would never do that to him. We have been exclusive/monogamous very early on, and I take that very seriously. His XW cheated on him... for me to threaten such a thing would hurt him so much that he and I would never recover. I would never do that to him, never. Game playing is never a good idea.


FIP, as I read this, I wonder. And sorry if I seem to pessimistic in my view here.

Does he have half as much understanding about you, your ways, your likes and dislikes, preferences, idiosyncrasies, nature, fears, etc.? After a year and a half, you seem to know him very well.

Could he write a similar post about you?
Think about it. I could be very, very wrong (and honestly, I kind of hope I am) but if he doesn't know you as well (and I mean the deep stuff, not that you like SpongeBob SquarePants, cosmopolitans, and 5-Finger Death Punch), if he doesn't know the real FIP a fraction as well as you understand him, and if you constantly place yourself in the understanding position so he can just be himself, then I feel you will eventually resent the emotional investment imbalance. If he doesn't know you as well (and you've been honest with him this past 1.5 years), putting in the lions share of the emotional investment is simply going to drain you over time. It seems like you've been in that place of understanding since the start and the reminder of the really good things in the relationship keep you going. 

I get that at every stage, it's been a challenge for him to reprogram the stubborn assumptions and misconceptions, reprogram the fear. You're helping him to break through all of that mental muck and you are wary of pushing him because you know he'll just shut down. There comes a point though, when I would think after this length of time, he should trust you, so im thinking that there's just something he can't let go of. Can't confront (yet). 

Beware of losing yourself because of fear you could lose this man. I've been there twice and made a tough, necessary decision both times, and it did hurt, temporarily. One man I knew for 7 years, another I knew for one. But I say necessary, because it definitely was both times. They had 100% of my understanding and I had very little of theirs, because I allowed it. 

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood" is how the saying goes, I think. You got the first part down without a doubt. What about the second?


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## Wolf1974

@Wolf1974 *I think it's fear. I think he's waiting for the other shoe to drop, for things to end abruptly, and he's trying to protect himself. He's much more invested than he appears or is willing to admit, I think.*



I can tell you exactly what would happen. That would end everything right there. I would never do that to him. We have been exclusive/monogamous very early on, and I take that very seriously. His XW cheated on him... for me to threaten such a thing would hurt him so much that he and I would never recover. I would never do that to him, never. Game playing is never a good idea.[/QUOTE]


Sorry to say not buying this. Unfortunately I have been this guy. Wife cheated on me and I knew good and well how to keep a woman at arms length, how to hedge my risk, and protect myself. That’s not what I see going on here. Little risk in knowing your people, A lot in letting you know his. As I said I have been this guy and while I was certainly was concerned and cautious, and had every right to be, I still slowly but surely waded back into the water *UNLESS* I already knew the woman I was with wasn’t going to work out. Because then what would be the point really ? 

I hope you have a limit on how much you’re willing to take so you don’t over invest to much more time.


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## RandomDude

Ah, but there is hope for him due to that alone; if it's just fear, it's meh. It can be overcome with positive experiences. If it's a conscious, calculated decision, with principles enforcing the lack of vulnerability, with pride as well... then it's... a tad more complex. Pride is much more dangerous demon than fear.

I don't think he's that far gone - yet...


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## Wolf1974

So I have an interesting quandary. I have been seeing this woman about two weeks. In reality about 3 dates. Things are going well and I like her but I am determined to go slow as I year thing about 2 months ago. We text every day most of the day off and on.

Anyway prior to ending the last relationship we had planned to spend my birthday in Cabo San Lucas. I mulled it over for a few weeks and decided to go ahead and go anyway alone. 1) I have never minded being by myself. 2) much of it was prepaid and can’t be refunded and I hate wasting money. So I am going

When this new woman I am dating found out it seems like she started pushing for a commitment of exclusivity immediately. When I asked why she was in a rush she gave me a line about knowing what she wants and so forth. She could be telling the truth but my Impression was she didn’t like the idea of me going to Cabo by myself for a week without the commitment. Anyway just wondered what your opinion about that was?


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## Satya

@Wolf1974, She may know what she wants (which I believe because that was once me, too), but she doesn't know you well enough yet to know that * you're* what she wants.

The only way we can find this out is to be present in your life, do things with you, watch how you live and watch your actions.

It's too soon for you (I think) to be arranging your plans around a woman you've known for too weeks. It's too soon to commit to anything.

Go and enjoy your trip. If she's there when you're back then you'll be closer to knowing if you're what she wants.


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## Wolf1974

Satya said:


> @Wolf1974, She may know what she wants (which I believe because that was once me, too), but she doesn't know you well enough yet to know that * you're* what she wants.
> 
> The only way we can find this out is to be present in your life, do things with you, watch how you live and watch your actions.
> 
> It's too soon for you (I think) to be arranging your plans around a woman you've known for too weeks. It's too soon to commit to anything.
> 
> Go and enjoy your trip. If she's there when you're back then you'll be closer to knowing if you're what she wants.


True. I am going one way or another because I have long since passed letting someone else control me. I think you’re right I will see if she is still here when I get back and if not next one up.


----------



## Bananapeel

She just trying to lock you down to a commitment so you don't hook up with someone else on the vacation. It's a sign of insecurity on her part (as is the constant texting). I'd personally tease her about those insecurities, but that's my personality. Maybe joke about her wanting to write "property of GF" on your schlong in permanent ink so all the other hotties you meet know they are second place.


----------



## VibrantWings

Maybe she's hoping you will take her to Cabo? Could be...*shrugs*

Anyhoo, hope you enjoy your trip


----------



## FeministInPink

@Wolf1974 She's pushing for an awful lot so soon. I would tell her that while you appreciate that she knows ehat she wants, you're not ready to make a commitment after only three dates. Go to Cabo alone and enjoy it.

How she reacts will be telling.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> @Wolf1974 She's pushing for an awful lot so soon. I would tell her that while you appreciate that she knows ehat she wants, you're not ready to make a commitment after only three dates. Go to Cabo alone and enjoy it.
> 
> How she reacts will be telling.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I agree and I did. Told her it seemed rushed and a bit artificial that she was pushing for this so soon. Well she said she understood and appreciated my candor. Then she stopped texting me and became a bit aloof. We spoke on the phone last night and I could tell she was pouting for lack of a better word so I told her one of the things I looked for in a relationship was emotional maturity and didn’t feel that here. I guess that offended her enough to hang up with me.

Oh well better to find this stuff out earlier rather than later I say.


----------



## RandomDude

Argh... how old was she?


----------



## Satya

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree and I did. Told her it seemed rushed and a bit artificial that she was pushing for this so soon. Well she said she understood and appreciated my candor. Then she stopped texting me and became a bit aloof. We spoke on the phone last night and I could tell she was pouting for lack of a better word so I told her one of the things I looked for in a relationship was emotional maturity and didn’t feel that here. I guess that offended her enough to hang up with me.
> 
> Oh well better to find this stuff out earlier rather than later I say.


IMO, you did the right thing. Well done.
That was an immature reaction on her part (stonewalling) and you called her on it. You're exacting your boundaries.

Now go have an awesome, relaxing trip.


----------



## farsidejunky

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree and I did. Told her it seemed rushed and a bit artificial that she was pushing for this so soon. Well she said she understood and appreciated my candor. Then she stopped texting me and became a bit aloof. We spoke on the phone last night and I could tell she was pouting for lack of a better word so I told her one of the things I looked for in a relationship was emotional maturity and didn’t feel that here. I guess that offended her enough to hang up with me.
> 
> Oh well better to find this stuff out earlier rather than later I say.


This confirmed your suspicions.


----------



## Lila

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree and I did. Told her it seemed rushed and a bit artificial that she was pushing for this so soon. Well she said she understood and appreciated my candor. *Then she stopped texting me and became a bit aloof. We spoke on the phone last night and I could tell she was pouting for lack of a better word so I told her one of the things I looked for in a relationship was emotional maturity and didn’t feel that here. I guess that offended her enough to hang up with me.*
> 
> Oh well better to find this stuff out earlier rather than later I say.


Are you sure that what you intrepreted as aloofness was not her trying to slow things down? I think her offense came at being called emotionally immature when she was doing exactly what you said.... taking it slow. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolf1974

RandomDude said:


> Argh... how old was she?


37


----------



## Wolf1974

Lila said:


> Are you sure that what you intrepreted as aloofness was not her trying to slow things down? I think her offense came at being called emotionally immature when she was doing exactly what you said.... taking it slow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


She wasn’t taking it slow though she was pressuring for a commitment prior to me leaving and when I explained that it was way to soon for that she pouted and stopped communicating completely. I mean my 12 year old throws tantrums in the same way and that’s what I was calling emotionally immature, her pouting , not that she wanted a commitment. 

she has every right to want what she wants and I’m not condemning her mind you. She is just one of those types that need and wants that established commitment early and fast. Don’t blame her for knowing what she wants I’m just not that. I prefer to move slow and deliberate to evaluate are we right for each other. Clearly not in this case and that’s ok. I hope she finds what she is looking for.


----------



## Lila

Wolf1974 said:


> She wasn’t taking it slow though she was pressuring for a commitment prior to me leaving and when I explained that it was way to soon for that she pouted and stopped communicating completely. I mean my 12 year old throws tantrums in the same way and that’s what I was calling emotionally immature, her pouting , not that she wanted a commitment.
> 
> she has every right to want what she wants and I’m not condemning her mind you. She is just one of those types that need and wants that established commitment early and fast. Don’t blame her for knowing what she wants I’m just not that. I prefer to move slow and deliberate to evaluate are we right for each other. Clearly not in this case and that’s ok. I hope she finds what she is looking for.


I get what you're saying but did you expect her to keep treating you the same way as when she was pushing full throttle? 

You told her she was moving too fast, she acknowledged it and pulled back, and you're saying she's throwing a tantrum for doing so. You said it yourself, she's not interested in taking it slow. Calling her emotionally immature because she doesn't want to continue communicating with you makes you seem angry. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

@Wolf1974 She's showing her true colors, and they demonstrate that she's a little immature and/or insecure.

I will admit that Real Estate has, on rare occasion, accused me of pouting when I don't get my way. When this happens, I'm not intentionally pouting; I'm giving myself a time-out to process my emotions, and unfortunately, I wear my emotions on my sleeve, so it's obvious I'm upset. But I'm NOT doing this to manipulate the outcome, which is what a child is doing when they pout.

I'm not saying this is what your lady friend is doing, but just want to give you some insight. If she's using the pouting to try to manipulate you, then I think it may be a problem.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

RandomDude said:


> Cuddlebunny showed me a photo with her with makeup (she's a natural beauty and already 8/10 in my scale)... and... :surprise: *SUPER HOT!* easily at least *15*/10!! I've never seen such a stunner in YEARS, and I see stunners all the time! Yet all this time and she never dressed up like that for me. I haven't been able to take my eyes off the photo all day, and she wasn't happy with me when I proposed she should dress up like that.
> 
> *sigh* Wimmen -.-


This is bs. First we see Losinghim is a hotty now this cuddle bunny. I guess I'll have to stop being a butthole so I can get in the loop, lol.


----------



## RandomDude

Evinrude58 said:


> This is bs. First we see Losinghim is a hotty now this cuddle bunny. I guess I'll have to stop being a butthole so I can get in the loop, lol.


???? Erm.... did you really just quote me from Jan? BTW Cuddlebunny is... history =/


----------



## Wolf1974

Lila said:


> I get what you're saying but did you expect her to keep treating you the same way as when she was pushing full throttle?
> 
> You told her she was moving too fast, she acknowledged it and pulled back, and you're saying she's throwing a tantrum for doing so. You said it yourself, she's not interested in taking it slow. Calling her emotionally immature because she doesn't want to continue communicating with you makes you seem angry.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Or really? Ok guess I will be angry then lol

She didn’t just pull back. Pulling back would have been fine. Slowing down communication would have been great. She STOPPED 100% communicating all together. 3 days ago we have a 2 hour conversation effortlessly back and forth. Then after I tell her to slow it down we had a 10 min phone conversation where where I had to ask her what was wrong 6 Times [nothing], are you still there 5 times [ya] and all she would answer were yes and then more silence. Most of that conversation you could tell she was pouting as I said my 12 year old acts the exact same way emotionally immature.

If this was her behavior for this we certainly wouldn’t every be able to have a relationship


----------



## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> @Wolf1974 She's showing her true colors, and they demonstrate that she's a little immature and/or insecure.
> 
> I will admit that Real Estate has, on rare occasion, accused me of pouting when I don't get my way. When this happens, I'm not intentionally pouting; I'm giving myself a time-out to process my emotions, and unfortunately, I wear my emotions on my sleeve, so it's obvious I'm upset. But I'm NOT doing this to manipulate the outcome, which is what a child is doing when they pout.
> 
> I'm not saying this is what your lady friend is doing, but just want to give you some insight. If she's using the pouting to try to manipulate you, then I think it may be a problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It certainly felt like manipulation. Like you’re not giving me my way so I’m going to make you feel bad. I just don’t know her well enough to feel bad. 

She did send me a text this afternoon while I was sleeping. Said she was sorry and hoped I enjoyed the trip Thought that was big of her to least apologize. She made no indications she wanted me to call or text her back now or after the trip so think I am just going to let this and her go no harm no foul


----------



## Lila

Wolf1974 said:


> Or really? Ok guess I will be angry then lol
> 
> She didn’t just pull back. Pulling back would have been fine. Slowing down communication would have been great. She STOPPED 100% communicating all together. 3 days ago we have a 2 hour conversation effortlessly back and forth. Then after I tell her to slow it down we had a 10 min phone conversation where where I had to ask her what was wrong 6 Times [nothing], are you still there 5 times [ya] and all she would answer were yes and then more silence. Most of that conversation you could tell she was pouting as I said my 12 year old acts the exact same way emotionally immature.
> 
> If this was her behavior for this we certainly wouldn’t every be able to have a relationship


She should have been honest and told you she's not interested in a relationship with you instead of cutting off communications. Sounds like she was trying to ghost. If so, then answering the phone when you called was pretty immature. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974

Lila said:


> She should have been honest and told you she's not interested in a relationship with you instead of cutting off communications. Sounds like she was trying to ghost. If so, then answering the phone when you called was pretty immature.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Oddest part is that she knew this all along. I made mention of it on our very first date. Only thing I can assume is she started to have some feelings and just felt insecure about the trip..... but she did know about it and I never made any indications I was canceling. I just have too much money invested and I had a bucket list item for deep sea fishing.

Somethings just aren’t meant to be and after all this is what dating is all about...finding out if we are compatible


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> It certainly felt like manipulation. Like you’re not giving me my way so I’m going to make you feel bad. I just don’t know her well enough to feel bad.
> 
> She did send me a text this afternoon while I was sleeping. Said she was sorry and hoped I enjoyed the trip Thought that was big of her to least apologize. She made no indications she wanted me to call or text her back now or after the trip so think I am just going to let this and her go no harm no foul


Yeah, your description of that phone call sounds a lot worse than my "pouting."

At least she apologized, I agree... But that sounds like a bare minimum thing. She's not really winning any points here.

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## Ynot

Ynot said:


> I am "running" the Ale Trail. 37 stops at different breweries, that counts for something doesn't it?


I just hit number 29! Only 8 more to go! If I keep at it, I know I can make it!


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## RandomDude

Ergh... so I thought she be pretty, so I smiled, then she smiled... and I... changed direction 

Then the next day, another pretty lady, so I smiled, and then she smiled, and... the world suddenly became a better place :surprise:

Except, never sure about making someone at work another fkbuddy, especially a subordinate. Still, we all know the rule of preventing sexual harassment lawsuits right?








Actually forget it... not worth the gossips


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## tripad

When u breakup , she can sabotage your job , company . Unless she dumps u .


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## tripad

Guys n ladies 

I think next year, I will sign up that gym package n go gym more n see if i can have any interactions with available men . Sigh . 

My life , work , boys are doing well . Except i am getting so used to being alone n independent , albeit lonely at times . 

My ex is filling his life , jobless n recently with a job , chasing skirts n talking about women to my domestic helper every weekend when he picks up the kids . Really irks me . N he pre - warns me he cant give child support which is starting Jan 2018 . Can i slaughter him ?


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## RandomDude

Get a pet 










Samoyeds will keep you busy, keep you outdoors too, and folks will come to see and pet your cute puppy whenever you go out. Dogs are great wingmen!


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## Elizabeth001

Although I strongly advocate for dogs, they are difficult to manage when you already have human children, especially when you are a single parent. 


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## tripad

RandomDude said:


> Get a pet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samoyeds will keep you busy, keep you outdoors too, and folks will come to see and pet your cute puppy whenever you go out. Dogs are great wingmen!


Me ?! 

Single working parent with no children support . Dont want another " mouth " to feed . 

My boys has been asking for a puppy for years , they love animals . Sad that i cant do that for them .


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## Ynot

tripad said:


> Me ?!
> 
> Single working parent with no children support . Dont want another " mouth " to feed .
> 
> My boys has been asking for a puppy for years , they love animals . Sad that i cant do that for them .


Heck, I am a divorced middle aged man with no children to support. The last thing I want is to be tied down with another mouth to feed, wash and take care of. When I first got divorced I brought the family dog with me. I did it because the alternative was to out him down because my ex didn't want/wouldn't take him (along with the three cats she deserted). I found I had to come home at lunch time and right after work to let him out. If I had been out late, it didn't matter. Rather than finding him to be a great wind man, I found him to be a great anchor to my life.


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## Elizabeth001

Yaa...I don’t know what I would do without my fur brats. I would love to add a third but I don’t know how steady my financial future is or how much or what shift I’ll be working. Dogs can be very expensive!

That said, I attempted a dog when my boys were young and I was a single parent. I ended up having to re-home her when the “new” wore off for the boys and they weren’t helping take care of her. I had my hands full with them and two jobs. Although we found her a great home, it broke my heart to have to let her go  


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## FeministInPink

Real Estate's dog was his emotional lifeline after his divorce. He would have been lost without her. He works from home, though, so it's easier for him to manage. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

So, on a different note - I just heard today that one of the best friends I ever had passed away last Sunday. He was one of those guys who could finish your sentence and vice versa. I had so many great times with him. We sort of went our separate ways over the past 25+years. We went our separate ways when we both become serious with the women who became our wives. We got together from time to time just man to man and it was always just like old times. Our wives never meshed so that was something that kept us apart. After I got divorced I reached out to him but nothing came of it because of some really strange circumstances (another story for another time). Tomorrow I am going to his funeral. I loved him like a brother. Just another reminder that life is short, so make the most out of it.


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## Down_And_Out

So.. I've been hitting they gym 5-6 times a week and eating extremely healthy for the past month or so.. and the weight is literally falling off of me. I'm fitting into cloths I haven't worn in over 5 years. This is all great and everything but I'm doing it for the wrong reasons  ... My soon to be ex wife and I stopped having sex about 2 months ago (broken up since Jan 2016 when I caught her cheating). She has an on again and off again boyfriend (the one she cheated on me with) and something just hit me in the last month.... (probably the lack of sex) but I'm so damn motivated. I've never been more motivated in my life. My goal is to make her super jealous and with losing weight find a sexual partner. I thought I wanted a relationship but I now realize I don't. I just want to have sex.. with somebody.. anybody.. is that terrible of me? ps: still love my soon to be ex wife but want her to hate that shes not with me anymore. ps: im not the a**hole I sound to be... just dealing with a crappy situation and Im hurting that's all.


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## RandomDude

When you're cheated on, it's a blow to your self-esteem. You're doing what it takes to get it back, nothing wrong with that. I'd encourage it.


----------



## Down_And_Out

RandomDude said:


> When you're cheated on, it's a blow to your self-esteem. You're doing what it takes to get it back, nothing wrong with that. I'd encourage it.



Well that's good to hear. I'm going to end up killing myself(not literally)... but overdoing it at the gym. going to start doing 2 a days next week.


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## Ynot

Down_And_Out said:


> So.. I've been hitting they gym 5-6 times a week and eating extremely healthy for the past month or so.. and the weight is literally falling off of me. I'm fitting into cloths I haven't worn in over 5 years. This is all great and everything but I'm doing it for the wrong reasons  ... My soon to be ex wife and I stopped having sex about 2 months ago (broken up since Jan 2016 when I caught her cheating). She has an on again and off again boyfriend (the one she cheated on me with) and something just hit me in the last month.... (probably the lack of sex) but I'm so damn motivated. I've never been more motivated in my life. My goal is to make her super jealous and with losing weight find a sexual partner. I thought I wanted a relationship but I now realize I don't. I just want to have sex.. with somebody.. anybody.. is that terrible of me? ps: still love my soon to be ex wife but want her to hate that shes not with me anymore. ps: im not the a**hole I sound to be... just dealing with a crappy situation and Im hurting that's all.


What you are doing is completely natural. When my ex left I got into great shape. I was lifting, running, spinning, trail riding and doing yoga. I lost 35 lbs. But then I realized that SHE had been my motivation. I kind of stopped, reduced my regimen and started looking for what I really wanted instead. I have put on a few pounds, I was never obese or fat, just bigger that I had wanted to be (I am 6'3").
Anyways, what I have found out is that most women are not really attracted to overly muscular men and the women I was attracted to weren't ripped either. In both cases it screams of narcissim. If you want sex, you will find plenty. There are women (and men) all over the place who are looking for the same thing and it doesn't require two a days, protein shake and spending hours in the gym getting ripped (which is a waste of time anyways).
Most people like real people. People who have lives outside of the gym or the church, or the bar or whatever your "drug" of choice is. Find a couple of new hobbies or other activities instead of becoming a lunk-head.


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## GuyInColorado

Keep working out. Being in better shape than 98% of the other men out there is a great confidence booster. It's great discipline. I hit weights 3x week and run 5 miles 2x a week. Just drink water and cofeee. Rarely eat bad stuff (burgers/fries). Love it.

Get your ex out of your mind. Start dating and experiencing new women. There are hotter and funner girls out there. You aren't marrying them. Go have fun!


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## Ynot

GuyInColorado said:


> Being in better shape than 98% of the other men out there is a great confidence booster.


So is being smarter, more well read, more well rounded, richer, or more of anything. Just find whatever it is you are good at and build on it. Anything can be a confidence booster if you look at it the right way. Google Chad Howse and read some of his blog posts. He talks about real confidence a lot.


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## RandomDude

Of all the women I had to get infactuated with... it had to be a celebrity >.> But not just a celebrity, only just her one character in a TV show >.<!!!






But it will never be!  And then they had to cancel the show even!  Why must I be tortured so? 

Bah!


----------



## FeministInPink

@Ynot I'm sorry to hear about your friend, especially since you have grown apart. You mourn just not your friend, but the time lost as well.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Its been a bad day. Real Estate and I had to go to the animal hospital and have Flower put down early this morning. He took her in for emergency surgery on Thursday, and there were too many post-surgery complications/problems. My heart is broken for him right now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Its been a bad day. Real Estate and I had to go to the animal hospital and have Flower put down early this morning. He took her in for emergency surgery on Thursday, and there were too many post-surgery complications/problems. My heart is broken for him right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well... isn't that a bummer =/


----------



## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> Its been a bad day. Real Estate and I had to go to the animal hospital and have Flower put down early this morning. He took her in for emergency surgery on Thursday, and there were too many post-surgery complications/problems. My heart is broken for him right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




I’m so very sorry, FiP. I know you’ve known it’s been coming, but it doesn’t make it easier when the time comes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

TooNice said:


> I’m so very sorry, FiP. I know you’ve known it’s been coming, but it doesn’t make it easier when the time comes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. I'm doing ok, and I'll be just fine. But I am concerned about Real Estate and how he is going to handle it. I had to go to work today, but I was able to call and check on him during my break... he was in bed. I got home around 6 pm, and he was still in bed. He did get up shortly after I got homr, and even joked a little bit, and I made sure that he ate something (he didn't eat the lunch I left for him), and he went back to bed a few hours later.

I know it's still fresh, and he's still in shock. I just hope he doesn't let this become the end of everything for him, because I know he's going to take this HARD. The coming months aren't going to be easy for us.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

=/

I'm sure he'll be fine, he's got you to help him through this. He's at his most emotionally vulnerable right now, and not so sure what he needs - should you go to him? Or give him space? What does your gut say?


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> I'm sure he'll be fine, he's got you to help him through this. He's at his most emotionally vulnerable right now, and not so sure what he needs - should you go to him? Or give him space? What does your gut say?


I've been staying over at his place since Thanksgiving, since his condo is much closer to the temp job I have for the holiday season, so I've been with him this entire time. (Of course, I do leave for my shifts at work.) I told him that if he needs some space/time to himself, and if he wants me to go home, to just let me know, no problem. But he seems pretty content to have me here.

He got up early today, and let me sleep in. He's already packed up all of Flower's belongings, which surprised me... But I guess it shouldn't. I'm thinking seeing those reminders is a bit too painful eight now. And now he's cleaning the kitchen, so that's good. He likes a clean place, so he's trying to maintain normalcy right now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> I've been staying over at his place since Thanksgiving, since his condo is much closer to the temp job I have for the holiday season, so I've been with him this entire time. (Of course, I do leave for my shifts at work.) I told him that if he needs some space/time to himself, and if he wants me to go home, to just let me know, no problem. But he seems pretty content to have me here.
> 
> He got up early today, and let me sleep in. He's already packed up all of Flower's belongings, which surprised me... But I guess it shouldn't. I'm thinking seeing those reminders is a bit too painful eight now. And now he's cleaning the kitchen, so that's good. He likes a clean place, so he's trying to maintain normalcy right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Aw, Im so sorry to read about Flower.


----------



## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I've been staying over at his place since Thanksgiving, since his condo is much closer to the temp job I have for the holiday season, so I've been with him this entire time. (Of course, I do leave for my shifts at work.) I told him that if he needs some space/time to himself, and if he wants me to go home, to just let me know, no problem. But he seems pretty content to have me here.
> 
> He got up early today, and let me sleep in. He's already packed up all of Flower's belongings, which surprised me... But I guess it shouldn't. I'm thinking seeing those reminders is a bit too painful eight now. And now he's cleaning the kitchen, so that's good. He likes a clean place, so he's trying to maintain normalcy right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Yeah...when the wound is fresh, it’s difficult to see reminders everywhere. You’re doing great fip...both of you hang in there <3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Ex-GF (still friends) sent me a recent photo of her on her holiday... and damn she looked good, same pretty face and eyes with great body. Kinda annoyed she got chubbier while with me though... and decides to lose weight when single again. "Love chubs"... bah!


----------



## Down_And_Out

T- minus 11 days until i can start dating !!! cant wait.


----------



## RandomDude

Opportunities, just passing like night and day, a smile here, a stare there, small-talk with a stranger and the look of disappointment when I walk away. No regrets. No temptation.

Yet... wonder, questions, the dread "what if", can I still be normal? Can I experience what people keep telling me about, this "love"? Bah! 

My transcendence is incomplete. Will require more study and re-wiring...


----------



## ne9907

I am going to Egypt for Holiday~

Will be visiting the Pyramids, valley of the kings, Luxor, having a Nile rive cruise, etc. I am pretty excited.


----------



## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> I am going to Egypt for Holiday~
> 
> Will be visiting the Pyramids, valley of the kings, Luxor, having a Nile rive cruise, etc. I am pretty excited.


Bored of Narnia?

Have fun!


----------



## tripad

ne9907 said:


> I am going to Egypt for Holiday~
> 
> Will be visiting the Pyramids, valley of the kings, Luxor, having a Nile rive cruise, etc. I am pretty excited.


Envy . Enjoy yourself . You deserve it . 

Just back from Bintan club med with kids . Had a great time . 

But i cancelled my Japan ski trip due to the N Korea tension . Very sad . But i just cant deal with the fear n stress with my children in toll .


----------



## tripad

FeministInPink said:


> Its been a bad day. Real Estate and I had to go to the animal hospital and have Flower put down early this morning. He took her in for emergency surgery on Thursday, and there were too many post-surgery complications/problems. My heart is broken for him right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Sorry abt that . That's the reason I dont want pets . Cant deal with its death .


----------



## RandomDude

Sweet solitude. In quiet contemplation, piano in my ears, the softness of my fat puddy cat's fur on my lap, the summer breeze flowing into the atrium, boats sailing up and down the river out my window, might head out to the marina with my daughter later too. Life is so peaceful, yet... there's something missing.

I desire no love, no companionship, yet why is there are longing? I feel like a predator resisting my impulses to hunt my prey. How many hearts do I have to break before I gather enough reasons to stay the f--k away. I don't like getting close to people, I prefer my relationships on a shallow level, sex with no dramas, no feelings, no expectations. Yet it never lasts, either they fall in love, becoming a victim, or they move on seeking what I can not give.

I just want a long-term fkbuddy without being the bad guy breaking hearts! :banghead:


----------



## Jpp3

Depression after separation.

It has been nearly six months since me and my ex finalized our custody agreement after our split and I find myself in a rut. Not over our relationship but how our break up changed our lives. 

It's been a while since I've posted and never in this thread so a quick recap of events.

While together still, my ex went on vacation and decided she wanted to end things and made the decision not to come back from her trip with our daughter. I filed a custody case to try and bring my daughter back but ultimately the court allowed it. I could have fought more but frankly I wanted it over and to see my daughter and I just couldn't afford it anymore, I really couldn't afford it to begin with. 
In the end the agreement was that I move from Arizona to New Jersey and we have 50/50 parenting time with her being the custodial parent. 
It has worked out that I have her 4 days a week and she has her 3. Sounds like a win.
Except the part where I had to move out of my home, sell and give away all my belongings, and move cross country to a state that frankly I hate.

Other than our relationship things were great in Arizona. I owned a home, I had a great job that I liked and paid well, had a group of friends I was close with, and family. Now I have family here too so that's something, but that's it. Yes I have my daughter and that was and is the most important thing, but I'm struggling. And I'm worried how my daughter is adjusting. I still own my home in AZ and have renters in it, but all the money from the rent is going to taxes, insurance and to pay my attorney off, so no money to help me find a place here. I stayed the first few months with my brother but he had just gotten married and his wife is pregnant, as much as they love me they want to have some time to live alone as a married couple before they have their first child. Understandable. So now I'm living with my mother.

I had hoped that I would be able to find work but have only been able to find part time, low income jobs. Barley enough to pay for my daughters school, and the few bills I have. Let alone try and find a rental in this absurdly expensive area. If I did not have family to lean on I would either be back in AZ away from my child or on the streets so I am thankful that I have a place to go. At the same time, I hate it here.

On one hand I think it's only been six months it's ok it takes time to build things. On the other I think it's been six months, what the hell are you doing with your life get it together you piece of ****. I miss the life I had in AZ and I'm having a hard time excepting my new reality. And Everytime I start to, my ex comes around and trys to work her way back in to my life, when I refuse she gets angry and trys to make my life difficult and then it sets off all the original emotions from the breakup. Betrayal, resentment, and anger. Because I'm still holding on to this anger I can't seem to meet anyone, romantically or friendly. 

I'm lonely and want friends and would like to find someone to date but I have no motivation to put my self out there. I feel I have nothing to offer, I was once a very confident person but my confidence has slowly been chipped away over the last year during and since the split.

I'm kind or rambling at this point but I guess the bottom line is, I'm lost, I'm lonely, I'm discouraged, I'm angry, I'm poor and struggling, and I'm not sure how to pull myself out of this and move on.


----------



## RandomDude

Six months is a really short time. You WILL recover. You won't see it now while you are still picking up the pieces. Have patience.


----------



## FeministInPink

@Jpp3 The feelings you are having aren't unusual. Divorce is hard enough, and ypurs is made harder by this forced relocation that you didn't want. (And I'm really disappointed that the court ultimately sanctioned your XW's "kidnapping" of your daughter, as it seems to me that she doesn't have your daughter's best interest at heart.)

If you're not doing so already, I think you need to establish hard boundaries with your XW regarding communication, to minimize the possibility of her upsetting your apple cart, so to speak.

Have you tried checking out MeetUp to help beef up your social life? For me, making new friends, who valued me amd accepted me, was key to my regaining self-confidence after my divorce.

If you're having a hard time with employment, have you considered the possibility of changing fields or going back to school to become more marketable? Or starting your own business? Just a thought. Also, getting out there socially could also improve your chance of finding a new job. They say it's all about networking and who you know.

And remember, when you start getting down, your present situation, and the way you are feeling, is all temporary. This too, like all things, shall pass. Nothing in life (except death) is permanent.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

My beginning of the year update. So the day after Christmas, my GF and I decided to end it. I had been feeling a little disconnected for about a month and so had she. It was more or less a mutual thing and it ended amiably with the decision to remain friends. 
She has a lot on her plate now. She is doing a long term teaching assignment, finishing her degree, she teaches piano and tutors, she has four kids (two adults, two minor) all at home. She didn't have time to devote to a relationship. And all of this I understand. 
At the same time, some of that made me uncomfortable and I felt myself sinking back into old thought habits, trying to make accommodations for things I wasn't comfortable with rather than seeking things and situations I was more in sync with and that enhanced my happiness.
So, now I will take a little time, allow the lessons I learned to sink in and move on with my life. New year, new beginning.


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## lovelygirl

RandomDude said:


> Sweet solitude. In quiet contemplation, piano in my ears, the softness of my fat puddy cat's fur on my lap, the summer breeze flowing into the atrium, boats sailing up and down the river out my window, might head out to the marina with my daughter later too. Life is so peaceful, yet... there's something missing.
> 
> I desire no love, no companionship, yet why is there are longing? I feel like a predator resisting my impulses to hunt my prey. How many hearts do I have to break before I gather enough reasons to stay the f--k away. I don't like getting close to people, I prefer my relationships on a shallow level, sex with no dramas, no feelings, no expectations. Yet it never lasts, either they fall in love, becoming a victim, or they move on seeking what I can not give.
> 
> I just want a long-term fkbuddy without being the bad guy breaking hearts! :banghead:


Wait a second...you broke up AGAIN from your recent GF?


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## RandomDude

lovelygirl said:


> Wait a second...you broke up AGAIN from your recent GF?


Errr, no only broke up with her once and that was a few months ago. Just contemplating with random thoughts


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## lovelygirl

RandomDude said:


> Errr, no only broke up with her once and that was a few months ago. Just contemplating with random thoughts


Whew...

I was about to get a heartache.


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> My beginning of the year update. So the day after Christmas, my GF and I decided to end it. I had been feeling a little disconnected for about a month and so had she. It was more or less a mutual thing and it ended amiably with the decision to remain friends.
> 
> She has a lot on her plate now. She is doing a long term teaching assignment, finishing her degree, she teaches piano and tutors, she has four kids (two adults, two minor) all at home. She didn't have time to devote to a relationship. And all of this I understand.
> 
> At the same time, some of that made me uncomfortable and I felt myself sinking back into old thought habits, trying to make accommodations for things I wasn't comfortable with rather than seeking things and situations I was more in sync with and that enhanced my happiness.
> 
> So, now I will take a little time, allow the lessons I learned to sink in and move on with my life. New year, new beginning.




*swoon*
I still have a chance. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> *swoon*
> I still have a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only if you give up that fixation on that poor excuse for a home improvement store!


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## Elizabeth001

I’ve given up on both. Working at a chrome-plating plant in a quality lab & operating robots. I’m in my element with all the new toys but the pay sucks unfortunately. It will do for now. Probably a couple bucks higher than home improvement warehouses anyway plus benefits. It will feel good to have health insurance again. Feels like I’ve been walking a tightrope!

ETA just for fun, plus I’m sleepy and on my second glass of wine:







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bananapeel

New Years update for me too. The woman I'd been casually dating for about a year and I have drifted apart. No real breakup but we haven't seen each other for almost 2 months. That wasn't a surprise since we pretty much just had intense chemistry/attraction but weren't long term compatible with each other and I think we both knew that from the beginning. I'm still casually dating and enjoying myself, so we'll see where that road leads me. I've got a hot date next weekend. Life's good and I'm enjoying every minute of it. 

2017 highlights: international vacation, new car, strengthened relationship with family/friends, checked a couple items off my bucket list, plus some crazy things I can't post on the internet ;-)


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## minimalME

Gosh. I can't believe it's been YEARS since I've posted! 

My living/working situation is such that the majority of the people I'm around are half my age, and I stopped dating in early December, so I wanted a way to connect with peers. Being an introvert, that's been a lifelong struggle.

Anyway, I'll need to find my way around here again. A lot has changed!

In terms of my singleness, I've been divorced since 2010, and the closing on our house took place on December 15th. That was the last tie between myself and my ex-husband, and it's nice to have only myself to tend to now.

I look forward to participating again. Happy New Year!


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## ne9907

Jpp3 said:


> Depression after separation.
> 
> It has been nearly six months since me and my ex finalized our custody agreement after our split and I find myself in a rut. Not over our relationship but how our break up changed our lives.
> 
> It's been a while since I've posted and never in this thread so a quick recap of events.
> 
> While together still, my ex went on vacation and decided she wanted to end things and made the decision not to come back from her trip with our daughter. I filed a custody case to try and bring my daughter back but ultimately the court allowed it. I could have fought more but frankly I wanted it over and to see my daughter and I just couldn't afford it anymore, I really couldn't afford it to begin with.
> In the end the agreement was that I move from Arizona to New Jersey and we have 50/50 parenting time with her being the custodial parent.
> It has worked out that I have her 4 days a week and she has her 3. Sounds like a win.
> Except the part where I had to move out of my home, sell and give away all my belongings, and move cross country to a state that frankly I hate.
> 
> Other than our relationship things were great in Arizona. I owned a home, I had a great job that I liked and paid well, had a group of friends I was close with, and family. Now I have family here too so that's something, but that's it. Yes I have my daughter and that was and is the most important thing, but I'm struggling. And I'm worried how my daughter is adjusting. I still own my home in AZ and have renters in it, but all the money from the rent is going to taxes, insurance and to pay my attorney off, so no money to help me find a place here. I stayed the first few months with my brother but he had just gotten married and his wife is pregnant, as much as they love me they want to have some time to live alone as a married couple before they have their first child. Understandable. So now I'm living with my mother.
> 
> I had hoped that I would be able to find work but have only been able to find part time, low income jobs. Barley enough to pay for my daughters school, and the few bills I have. Let alone try and find a rental in this absurdly expensive area. If I did not have family to lean on I would either be back in AZ away from my child or on the streets so I am thankful that I have a place to go. At the same time, I hate it here.
> 
> On one hand I think it's only been six months it's ok it takes time to build things. On the other I think it's been six months, what the hell are you doing with your life get it together you piece of ****. I miss the life I had in AZ and I'm having a hard time excepting my new reality. And Everytime I start to, my ex comes around and trys to work her way back in to my life, when I refuse she gets angry and trys to make my life difficult and then it sets off all the original emotions from the breakup. Betrayal, resentment, and anger. Because I'm still holding on to this anger I can't seem to meet anyone, romantically or friendly.
> 
> I'm lonely and want friends and would like to find someone to date but I have no motivation to put my self out there. I feel I have nothing to offer, I was once a very confident person but my confidence has slowly been chipped away over the last year during and since the split.
> 
> I'm kind or rambling at this point but I guess the bottom line is, I'm lost, I'm lonely, I'm discouraged, I'm angry, I'm poor and struggling, and I'm not sure how to pull myself out of this and move on.


Give yourself some time. Six month is nothing. I am four years out and still feel the occasional pang of misery. 
I thought 2017 was a ****ty year for me, but I have learned a lot of things about what I like, what makes me happy, etc.

You will get better. Life gets better.


I am back from Egypt. Had an amazing time. Want to do it again!!

Has anyone heard of @GuyInColorado ?

I am a bit worried about him


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## 3Xnocharm

I think Guy is laying low because he has continued having sex with his lying, drug addict, alcoholic GF/fiance. He doesnt want to hear from all of us just how effed up that is.


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## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> I think Guy is laying low because he has continued having sex with his lying, drug addict, alcoholic GF/fiance. He doesnt want to hear from all of us just how effed up that is.




Here! Here!

I effing love it when someone has the balls to say what I’m thinking. Hahahaaaa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Satya

3Xnocharm said:


> I think Guy is laying low because he has continued having sex with his lying, drug addict, alcoholic GF/fiance. He doesnt want to hear from all of us just how effed up that is.


He's still here, asking all new posters about the health of their sex life. Just not talking about himself anymore... Because we're all a broken record by now probably and he has figure things out in his own way.


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## Elizabeth001

Satya said:


> He's still here, asking all new posters about the health of their sex life. Just not talking about himself anymore... Because we're all a broken record by now probably and he has figure things out in his own way.




Yep. Every post is advice to have more sex. lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yep. Every post is advice to have more sex. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It isn't even only about having more sex, it is really about (ab)using women


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## Ynot

Jpp3 said:


> Depression after separation.
> 
> It has been nearly six months since me and my ex finalized our custody agreement after our split and I find myself in a rut. Not over our relationship but how our break up changed our lives.
> 
> It's been a while since I've posted and never in this thread so a quick recap of events.
> 
> While together still, my ex went on vacation and decided she wanted to end things and made the decision not to come back from her trip with our daughter. I filed a custody case to try and bring my daughter back but ultimately the court allowed it. I could have fought more but frankly I wanted it over and to see my daughter and I just couldn't afford it anymore, I really couldn't afford it to begin with.
> In the end the agreement was that I move from Arizona to New Jersey and we have 50/50 parenting time with her being the custodial parent.
> It has worked out that I have her 4 days a week and she has her 3. Sounds like a win.
> Except the part where I had to move out of my home, sell and give away all my belongings, and move cross country to a state that frankly I hate.
> 
> Other than our relationship things were great in Arizona. I owned a home, I had a great job that I liked and paid well, had a group of friends I was close with, and family. Now I have family here too so that's something, but that's it. Yes I have my daughter and that was and is the most important thing, but I'm struggling. And I'm worried how my daughter is adjusting. I still own my home in AZ and have renters in it, but all the money from the rent is going to taxes, insurance and to pay my attorney off, so no money to help me find a place here. I stayed the first few months with my brother but he had just gotten married and his wife is pregnant, as much as they love me they want to have some time to live alone as a married couple before they have their first child. Understandable. So now I'm living with my mother.
> 
> I had hoped that I would be able to find work but have only been able to find part time, low income jobs. Barley enough to pay for my daughters school, and the few bills I have. Let alone try and find a rental in this absurdly expensive area. If I did not have family to lean on I would either be back in AZ away from my child or on the streets so I am thankful that I have a place to go. At the same time, I hate it here.
> 
> On one hand I think it's only been six months it's ok it takes time to build things. On the other I think it's been six months, what the hell are you doing with your life get it together you piece of ****. I miss the life I had in AZ and I'm having a hard time excepting my new reality. And Everytime I start to, my ex comes around and trys to work her way back in to my life, when I refuse she gets angry and trys to make my life difficult and then it sets off all the original emotions from the breakup. Betrayal, resentment, and anger. Because I'm still holding on to this anger I can't seem to meet anyone, romantically or friendly.
> 
> I'm lonely and want friends and would like to find someone to date but I have no motivation to put my self out there. I feel I have nothing to offer, I was once a very confident person but my confidence has slowly been chipped away over the last year during and since the split.
> 
> I'm kind or rambling at this point but I guess the bottom line is, I'm lost, I'm lonely, I'm discouraged, I'm angry, I'm poor and struggling, and I'm not sure how to pull myself out of this and move on.


Dude, I have a similar story. Blind sided by a divorce and relocation to another place. When I moved here I had zero friends. The only people I knew was my daughter and her fiancée (now husband). I avoided them pretty much or really they avoided me because I was depressed and angry and lost and quite frankly I probably was not someone anyone would have sought out for companionship. 
Over time I started to develop new friends. Some of them have remained, some of them have not. It took time but now I actually have a circle of people I can call if I need to talk or want to do something.
Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and take things day by day. Be patient because eventually you will find your self in a much better place.
I will leave you with a quote I read today - "Always do your best. What you plant today, you will harvest later" So start today to do your best. Develop new habits and attitudes because these will make your tomorrows better.


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## Bananapeel

Ynot said:


> It isn't even only about having more sex, it is really about (ab)using women


Yeah. He's got some emotional baggage he still needs to work through.


----------



## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> Yeah. He's got some emotional baggage he still needs to work through.


I hope he does. He seems really bitter and angry. When he first started posting he seemed like a good guy who had just been hurt badly. I hope he doesn't allow his hurt to define his future by just becoming angry and cynical.


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## ne9907

3Xnocharm said:


> I think Guy is laying low because he has continued having sex with his lying, drug addict, alcoholic GF/fiance. He doesnt want to hear from all of us just how effed up that is.


I sort of thought along the same lines, I hope that is not the case.

A very close family member (brother) has been using meth for about 2.5 years now. They hide it. We didn't know. I dealt with that for the vast majority of last year. It is extremely hard to realize the person I once loved no longer lives in that body. His mind is almost gone.... His girlfriend also abuses drugs. A double whammy of bad consequences for everyone.

@GuyInColorado if you are reading this, please leave your girlfriend. Seek help, You cannot do it alone. You might feel as if the world will end without her but it is not the case.

PM me if you would like

EDIT: I still love him, but he is not longer there. It is so strange to love someone who is not there... It is also painful.


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## GuyInColorado

It's all good over here. She's been sober coming up on 6 months now (drugs and booze). I haven't had a drop of booze since August either. Feeling great, in best shape of my life. We're happy and planning the future. I'm a little bruised from this, but it's for the best. I'm much more observant, not just in my relationship with her. I'm more aware in everything around me. I don't trust anyone. All humans lie. Some lie more than others. 

Her cousin and his girlfriend got arrested a few months ago in Kansas on manufacturing drug charges, so keeping an eye on that. Hoping they go away for a while.

She made some bad decisions and is getting a re-do to live a healthy and sober life. 

I also hate alcohol with a passion after this. I hate any mind altering substance. How our society let booze become such an acceptable thing is mind boggling. I see now all of the destruction it has had on people and families. Self Control is lacking in the world. Look at how many people around us are obese and addicted to something.

Yeah, I have an elitist attitude now. I'm toned with a six pack and can do 20 wide grip pull ups with no issues. Most adult men that I know can't even do 1, alone 3. I haven't met a woman yet that can do more than 1. Anyways, I know I'm better than most of the people in this world. I make good decisions and don't believe in imaginary friends (God). I'm educated and understand science. I make over six figures and can work whenever/wherever I want. I have a great sex life. I have great kids. I get we are humans we fail. We all deserve second and maybe even third chances. But after that, you're on your own.

So yeah, I'm not the same person as before. Life is full of B.S. I don't know what the point of life is, or if there is even one. But I know what makes me happy and that's what I concentrate on. Being sober and not drinking is the best thing that's ever happened and I'll never drink a drop of boozed again.


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## ne9907

@GuyInColorado
I am glad that is the case. 

Here is a photo of my trip to Egypt. 
This was at Philae Temple.


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## RandomDude

ne9907 said:


> @GuyInColorado
> I am glad that is the case.
> 
> Here is a photo of my trip to Egypt.
> This was at Philae Temple.


Haha Ne, you little tomb raider you


----------



## FeministInPink

[email protected] I'm glad that things are going getter for you, and I hope your GF can stay clean. It sounds like there may be some bad influences in her circle of friends/family, and if she wants to stay clean, it would be best if she steers clear of them.

I'm not a teetotaler by any means, but I don't drink frequently, and when I do, I don't drink to excess. I think some people can drink socially without it becoming a problem, because they have a modicum of self-control, but there are a lot of people who can't. It can be a very self-destructive behavior if it goes unchecked, and the only person who can control that is the imbiber. My XH was a (secret) alcoholic, and so was his father, and it was awful to deal with.

Real Estate and I recently had a situation where I actually broke up with him for a few days, involving him and his alcohol use. When we met, he was drinking a lot, apparently. When we got together, he started to cut down, and in the last year or so, he has drastically cut down. However, there have been a few occasions where he has had far too much to drink, and he has made some poor decisions as a result, decisions that could have ruined friendships, relationships, etc. The most recent occurrence forced us to have a come to Jesus talk, basically a one-woman intervention, to to speak. And I made it clear that I couldn't be with him if he couldn't deal with this and learn to make better choices. And I did break up with him, for a few days, but we both realized that being apart made us unhappy, and we came together again. And since then, it seems that he took our conversation seriously... since then, he's been very responsible about his drinking. But I'm going to be keeping an eye on him.


----------



## TooNice

Hey friends. I posted an update about recent events in a separate thread yesterday, but thought I would stop in here and say hello. Things are pretty status quo here. Work has been very busy, but I am loving new opportunities to learn. Dating is non-existent unless someone decides to eye me up in the produce department - lol. I have been focusing since November on my fitness and am loving the feeling of getting stronger through things other than running. I have taken up yoga more regularly than ever before in my life, and I am finding a huge release in that. Getting to a point where I can be trained to run a half marathon at any given time is my goal, and dating was taking energy from that. I am also planning to move to a warmer climate within a couple of years, so serious conversations are starting about that!

I got news the other day that my ex is engaged to marry the woman he cheated on me with. My other thread goes into more detail about it, but I am feeling like I am finally going to figure out how to free myself of the residual anger I have about what they took from me. Yesterday was a hard day, but today I am starting to feel a lightness and clarity. Part of that stems from when I asked my son how he feels about his dad remarrying, and he replied that he feels strangely indifferent. How sad for my ex that his own child feels that way. If I am blessed to remarry, I sort of envision my son beaming with happiness for me. I suppose I envision that because I know he will be. I am allowing my feelings and thoughts to flow right now... hoping that answers will sort themselves out somewhere. I am tired of being sad about what I missed out on and ready to embrace what I get to have next. 

I hope 2018 is starting well for all of you!


----------



## RandomDude

I seem to lack empathy for those I don't respect or like very much, but I don't even hate them. I accidentally offended one of my managers recently but had absolutely no clue why she was angry, and when she explained her reasons it went right over my head and I struggled to care, I pretended to care. Was wondering what was happening with my empathy switch, turns out I have trouble switching it on for her. It's off by principle. She's trash to me. She's way past her probation for me to get rid of her easy however, fair-work regulations can be an annoyance sometimes... and she has friends among my staff to keep her grounded. She still does her job, not up to the standard of others in management who continued to be consistent. I usually let my business run by itself so I'm trying not to care too much but if I am to commit to it again in case of emergency I'll have to work with her.

I had a bad feeling about her during her probation, my fault for not listening to my instincts, thought "should give her a fair go" and she did everything right by the team until her second year.


----------



## Bananapeel

I went on dates this past weekend with two different attractive, successful, smart women and one of them really blew my mind. She's a bilingual British scientist (PhD in a S.T.E.M. field) and we just clicked. We ran an obstacle course and then went out to eat, and afterwards she texted that it was the best first date she's ever had. There's something that's just sexy about a woman that I can have an on-par intelligent conversation with and is actively making the world a better place. I'm going to ask her out for a second date and see how things go...


----------



## lovelygirl

Nothing new here. Last time I dated someone was last October(2017) for which I made a thread. 

I haven't been in the mood to date anyone else. I'm still kind of healing. That guy left traces on my me (for good and bad). 

I've been reading TONS of books on dating/casual dating and relationships. They gave me a new perspective, and definitely not the one which mos TAMers here say that if you don't have sex past date 3, it's not worth it. 

As much as I love this place, there is a general mindset on here that it is pro about 'being too sexual too soon' - which has kind of deformed me and how I present myself to other people. I have come to disagreement with that as I see that it doesn't fit me and the way guys see me. 

I will no longer put up with sex-at-date-3-or-earlier "rule".


----------



## minimalME

lovelygirl said:


> Nothing new here. Last time I dated someone was last October(2017) for which I made a thread.
> 
> *I haven't been in the mood to date anyone else.* I'm still kind of healing. That guy left traces on my me (for good and bad).
> 
> I've been reading TONS of books on dating/casual dating and relationships. They gave me a new perspective, and definitely not the one which mos TAMers here say that if you don't have sex past date 3, it's not worth it.
> 
> As much as I love this place, there is a general mindset on here that it is pro about 'being too sexual too soon' - which has kind of deformed me and how I present myself to other people. I have come to disagreement with that as I see that it doesn't fit me and the way guys see me.
> 
> *I will no longer put up with sex-at-date-3-or-earlier "rule".*


I'm in the same place. 

I had two guys ask me out recently, and I declined both. The thought of it just kind of made me sick.

Modern online dating is really nothing more than an escort service, and I've come to terms with the fact that I may spend the rest of my days on my own.


----------



## RandomDude

Poor @Ynot... you guys know there is a "Singles 2018" thread right? lol


----------



## minimalME

RandomDude said:


> Poor @Ynot... you guys know there is a "Singles 2018" thread right? lol


Yes, I know.


----------



## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> Poor @Ynot... you guys know there is a "Singles 2018" thread right? lol


No worries. Some people just like to live in an echo chamber and seek validation rather than discussion. To each their own.


----------



## Diana7

lovelygirl said:


> Nothing new here. Last time I dated someone was last October(2017) for which I made a thread.
> 
> I haven't been in the mood to date anyone else. I'm still kind of healing. That guy left traces on my me (for good and bad).
> 
> I've been reading TONS of books on dating/casual dating and relationships. They gave me a new perspective, and definitely not the one which mos TAMers here say that if you don't have sex past date 3, it's not worth it.
> 
> As much as I love this place, there is a general mindset on here that it is pro about 'being too sexual too soon' - which has kind of deformed me and how I present myself to other people. I have come to disagreement with that as I see that it doesn't fit me and the way guys see me.
> 
> I will no longer put up with sex-at-date-3-or-earlier "rule".



It good that you are feeling more self respect. If any man I had dated wanted sex within 3 dates I would know that he definitely wasn't the man for me. People don't like to think this, but when we have sex with someone we leave a little bit of ourselves behind and they leave a bit of themselves behind with us.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> I'm in the same place.
> 
> I had two guys ask me out recently, and I declined both. The thought of it just kind of made me sick.
> 
> Modern online dating is really nothing more than an escort service, and I've come to terms with the fact that I may spend the rest of my days on my own.


Try and find a good dating site, not tinder or similar.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Try and find a good dating site, not tinder or similar.


I've never used tinder.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> I've never used tinder.


Or similar.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Or similar.


Feel free to offer more specific suggestions. 

I tried eharmony. It was the most expensive with a lot of hoops to jump through just to be accepted, yet it was completely dead with no interaction. I wrote in and asked for a refund (which, of course, they didn't give), and I deleted my account.

At the same time, I was on match, and I was going out 2 to 4 times a week. But, as I said, it seemed to be little more than an escort service.


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## Diana7

minimalME said:


> Feel free to offer more specific suggestions.
> 
> I tried eharmony. It was the most expensive with a lot of hoops to jump through just to be accepted, yet it was completely dead with no interaction. I wrote in and asked for a refund (which, of course, they didn't give), and I deleted my account.
> 
> At the same time, I was on match, and I was going out 2 to 4 times a week. But, as I said, it seemed to be little more than an escort service.


I am from the UK so my suggestions may not help. I was on Christian sites so they definitely weren't escort services. Its sad so many are like that. :frown2:

Have you thought of sites for people who share your interests? One young lady I know is dating a guy she met on a site for those who like the outdoors/countryside/animals etc


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## Bananapeel

Diana7 said:


> It good that you are feeling more self respect. If any man I had dated wanted sex within 3 dates I would know that he definitely wasn't the man for me. People don't like to think this, but when we have sex with someone we leave a little bit of ourselves behind and they leave a bit of themselves behind with us.


Oh, that's just semen. A good shower will clean that right off! lol. >


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## Diana7

Bananapeel said:


> Oh, that's just semen. I good shower will clean that right off! lol. >


Its not that easy.


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## RandomDude

I had a dream I developed telekinetic powers! It was so real and was so cool! Then I woke up and tried them... and failed 

*sigh*


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## sosotte

Hi everyone! If anyone remembers me, well a quick update... I gave birth in September to the cutest little boy and have never heard back from the father since feb 2017. I’m so happy anyway that I barely even think about guys anymore. I wouldn’t have space or time to fit in someone into my life now anyway. I don’t really have time to be lonely anymore and I have love to give to my baby so I’m doing good. At least for now. 
At the same time, though, I kinda met someone online. I’m a translator and he requested my services and one thing led to another and now we’re chatting all day long. He lives in France and I’m in Spain and we do not have plans to meet but it’s nice to have someone to chat with anyway. Maybe we’ll meet one day who knows! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

sosotte said:


> Hi everyone! If anyone remembers me, well a quick update... I gave birth in September to the cutest little boy and have never heard back from the father since feb 2017. I’m so happy anyway that I barely even think about guys anymore. I wouldn’t have space or time to fit in someone into my life now anyway. I don’t really have time to be lonely anymore and I have love to give to my baby so I’m doing good. At least for now.
> At the same time, though, I kinda met someone online. I’m a translator and he requested my services and one thing led to another and now we’re chatting all day long. He lives in France and I’m in Spain and we do not have plans to meet but it’s nice to have someone to chat with anyway. Maybe we’ll meet one day who knows!


Congratulations! Glad to know that you are happy and doing well.


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## FeministInPink

Bananapeel said:


> I went on dates this past weekend with two different attractive, successful, smart women and one of them really blew my mind. She's a bilingual British scientist (PhD in a S.T.E.M. field) and we just clicked. We ran an obstacle course and then went out to eat, and afterwards she texted that it was the best first date she's ever had. There's something that's just sexy about a woman that I can have an on-par intelligent conversation with and is actively making the world a better place. I'm going to ask her out for a second date and see how things go...


So, did you get the second date with the British scientist? How did it go?


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## FeministInPink

lovelygirl said:


> Nothing new here. Last time I dated someone was last October(2017) for which I made a thread.
> 
> I haven't been in the mood to date anyone else. I'm still kind of healing. That guy left traces on my me (for good and bad).
> 
> I've been reading TONS of books on dating/casual dating and relationships. They gave me a new perspective, and definitely not the one which mos TAMers here say that if you don't have sex past date 3, it's not worth it.
> 
> As much as I love this place, there is a general mindset on here that it is pro about 'being too sexual too soon' - which has kind of deformed me and how I present myself to other people. I have come to disagreement with that as I see that it doesn't fit me and the way guys see me.
> 
> I will no longer put up with sex-at-date-3-or-earlier "rule".


Do you mean TAM in general, or on the Singles thread specifically?

I think a lot of the Singles on this thread, having escaped from bad relationships (some of them sexless), are just ready to get on the horse again, if you know what I mean. For me, it was part of re-building my sexual confidence. My experience with my XH left me feeling so unattractive and so unwanted, I needed to know that I was desirable. And part of me didn't want a relationship, I just wanted sex. So sex right away was fine for me at the time.

If you think 3 dates is too soon, then good for you! Live that truth. Any guy who has a problem with that isn't for you, anyway


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## Bananapeel

FeministInPink said:


> So, did you get the second date with the British scientist? How did it go?


Of course, and it was really good! :wink2: I can tell that she's really into me and I'm giving her the space to enjoy and amplify all of those feelings. I'm into her as well, so we'll see how things unfold as I get to know her better.


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Do you mean TAM in general, or on the Singles thread specifically?
> 
> I think a lot of the Singles on this thread, having escaped from bad relationships (some of them sexless), are just ready to get on the horse again, if you know what I mean. For me, it was part of re-building my sexual confidence. My experience with my XH left me feeling so unattractive and so unwanted, I needed to know that I was desirable. And part of me didn't want a relationship, I just wanted sex. So sex right away was fine for me at the time.
> 
> If you think 3 dates is too soon, then good for you! Live that truth. Any guy who has a problem with that isn't for you, anyway


That's the thing. If one person wants sex after 3 dates and the other one wants to wait 90 days it just means they aren't compatible. It doesn't mean anything else despite some people taking it personally. The only reason I care one way or the other is that I want to see if the other person is compatible with me.


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## TooNice

FeministInPink said:


> I think a lot of the Singles on this thread, having escaped from bad relationships (some of them sexless), are just ready to get on the horse again, if you know what I mean. For me, it was part of re-building my sexual confidence. My experience with my XH left me feeling so unattractive and so unwanted, I needed to know that I was desirable. And part of me didn't want a relationship, I just wanted sex. So sex right away was fine for me at the time.
> 
> If you think 3 dates is too soon, then good for you! Live that truth. Any guy who has a problem with that isn't for you, anyway


This is so true. After being with the same person for more than two decades, I welcomed a variety of dates and experiences to help me rediscover who I am as a person, as a woman, and as a potential partner. I very much agree with the self-confidence piece, too - I was so beaten down during my marriage, that it has simply been a journey to learn that I am beautiful and powerful. I don't need men or dates to validate that for me, but dating has been part of the process, for sure. 

Whatever it is we are looking for is individual for each of us, and I think also shifts for us as we grow. Do what feels right for you right now. Anyone who questions that is not meant to be with you.


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## TooNice

I often joke with (and reassure) new dates that my track record for maintaining friendships after break ups is quite good. If I am compatible enough with someone to date for 3 months or more, there is clearly something that pulled us together, and unless I am given a reason to walk away, I am happy to remain friends. I am certainly confident enough to not be pouty if we are simply not compatible as partners.

The man I was dating this time last year has a new girlfriend, and it's very serious. We have been trying to meet for a drink to catch up on life and visit. Last night I ended up out - not just with him, but also with a dear friend from high school who I dated a couple of summers ago. We had all met up as couples last year, and the two of them hit it off well, so the three of us ended up out together. 

I am grateful that I can be in a situation where that was not only comfortable, but fun. Despite my overall lack of success at dating, I have made some good friends along the way. That's a win.


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## 3Xnocharm

If I had a new boyfriend who met up with a recent ex girlfriend/love interest/xxbuddy for a drink to catch up, he'd be my ex boyfriend. 

But thats just me. 

So I am finally in a "relationship" with my once ex bf/best friend and its going stunningly badly. He still treats me like a friend. Seems he thinks I will be around forever regardless of how cold he is, and I suppose I cant blame him since I am still in his life after all this time. We need to have a come to Jesus and see if things change. I have a hard time letting him go because I know he will move right on to someone else and treat her like a queen, like he did every rotten woman before me, and I have a problem with that. I am completely stupid.


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## TooNice

Fair enough, but on the other hand, I couldn’t be in a relationship that would result in me losing friends from a lack of trust. But that’s me.  

Sorry you’re in a difficult space again, but it sure sounds like you see it for what it is and know what you need to do. You deserve better. 


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## 3Xnocharm

Thanks for the support. 

It really isnt lack of trust, its learning some damn hard lessons about boundaries, and all ex's are now a boundary I have. They have no place in any relationship of mine. (coparenting the exception, of course)


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## TooNice

I totally get that. Our history certainly builds our future in many ways, doesn’t it?


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## Elizabeth001

TooNice said:


> I totally get that. Our history certainly builds our future in many ways, doesn’t it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Perhaps too much sometimes 

Oy vey...


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## RandomDude

We now have two singles threads right next to each other lol


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## TooNice

RandomDude said:


> We now have two singles threads right next to each other lol


Thanks for mentioning something - I didn't see the other thread!


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> If I had a new boyfriend who met up with a recent ex girlfriend/love interest/xxbuddy for a drink to catch up, he'd be my ex boyfriend.
> 
> But thats just me.
> 
> So I am finally in a "relationship" with my once ex bf/best friend and its going stunningly badly. He still treats me like a friend. Seems he thinks I will be around forever regardless of how cold he is, and I suppose I cant blame him since I am still in his life after all this time. We need to have a come to Jesus and see if things change. I have a hard time letting him go because I know he will move right on to someone else and treat her like a queen, like he did every rotten woman before me, and I have a problem with that. I am completely stupid.


Just saw this. Going to PM you.


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## tripad

Hi , old pals here . I am still around , reading but not posting . Just busy with work n kids - all improving . No social life .

Just the damn ex who keeps telling my domestic help his stories of the vaious women in his life . It does sting me .

Lately , I heard he is involved with a woman with a son . What irks me was either he lets her or he gives her , 3 of my sons' nerf guns that was left in his house in their previous visits . He pretended the guns were not there but I scolded him . But , still , the guns are gone . 

That is after he borrowed the bike rack n it was gone , probably with other woman , since he came with another woman to retrieve the bike rack .

What sane man gives his own son's toys away to another woman 's child that is not his to begin with .


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## tripad

3Xnocharm said:


> If I had a new boyfriend who met up with a recent ex girlfriend/love interest/xxbuddy for a drink to catch up, he'd be my ex boyfriend.
> 
> But thats just me.
> 
> So I am finally in a "relationship" with my once ex bf/best friend and its going stunningly badly. He still treats me like a friend. Seems he thinks I will be around forever regardless of how cold he is, and I suppose I cant blame him since I am still in his life after all this time. We need to have a come to Jesus and see if things change. I have a hard time letting him go because I know he will move right on to someone else and treat her like a queen, like he did every rotten woman before me, and I have a problem with that. I am completely stupid.



If bad ass , let him go , or you will feel more pain


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## RandomDude

tripad said:


> Hi , old pals here . I am still around , reading but not posting . Just busy with work n kids - all improving . No social life .
> 
> Just the damn ex who keeps telling my domestic help his stories of the vaious women in his life . It does sting me .
> 
> Lately , I heard he is involved with a woman with a son . *What irks me was either he lets her or he gives her , 3 of my sons' nerf guns that was left in his house in their previous visits . He pretended the guns were not there but I scolded him . But , still , the guns are gone . *
> 
> That is after he borrowed the bike rack n it was gone , probably with other woman , since he came with another woman to retrieve the bike rack .
> 
> What sane man gives his own son's toys away to another woman 's child that is not his to begin with .


WHAT THE FK?!

He's nothing but a parasite. How are the laws in your country? Can you get court orders? Seriously it's getting too much. He doesn't deserve to see your kids and your kids don't deserve to suffer him as a 'father'. Cut him out. Neglect is one thing, but stealing from your own kids just to get laid?!?! Hell I would BREAK him.

P.S. Btw there's another singles thread!


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## tripad

Laws ? Police reports n court order are possible but at the moment , cost and time not worth my while . 

Also , it doesnt benefit my children if I go full blast nasty . 

Yes , pretty much a parasite .

Also , if the woman is of quality character , it may benefit my children though I may feel injustice that he gets away from karma . 

But i kinda get the feel that the woman , from a neighboring country , may be eyeing his salary which is 3 times of her country's currency .


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## tripad

Which is the other singles thread ?


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## tripad

I think my children may not get to even enjoy his savings in 401k equivalent in the states . The woman and her child may get it at this rate .

I feel so robbed and cheated again , for my kids this time 

Really sad , i can imagine my children will grow up , understands this , and hate him even more .


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## FeministInPink

tripad said:


> I think my children may not get to even enjoy his savings in 401k equivalent in the states . The woman and her child may get it at this rate .
> 
> I feel so robbed and cheated again , for my kids this time
> 
> Really sad , i can imagine my children will grow up , understands this , and hate him even more .


If that's the case, then he is definitely an ass. Unfortunately, you can't do anything about that the only thing YOU can do is provide for them the best you can and hopefully have some of your own savings for them to inherit. 

In regards to your help, instruct them not to allow him into the house/garage, and they are NOT to give or allow him to take anything without your explicit instructions. They work for you, not him. Make it clear that this is an offense that could cost them their job with you, because it is theft.

And also tell them that you don't want to hear any of the stories that he may tell them about whatever the F he is doing in his own life on his own time. They are only to convey info about the kids, nothing else.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

tripad said:


> Laws ? Police reports n court order are possible but at the moment , cost and time not worth my while .
> 
> Also , it doesnt benefit my children if I go full blast nasty .
> 
> Yes , pretty much a parasite .
> 
> Also , if the woman is of quality character , it may benefit my children though I may feel injustice that he gets away from karma .
> 
> But i kinda get the feel that the woman , from a neighboring country , may be eyeing his salary which is 3 times of her country's currency .


Not worth your while? You've been dealing with this for years now and it's been costing you your LIFE. He's been sucking your energy, your happiness, your money out of you. INVEST in your future and stop letting him continue to make you miserable.

Doesn't benefit your children? Why? What redeemable quality does he even have that can even justify him having the right to be their father? Go full blast nasty, because he's full blast human waste.



tripad said:


> Which is the other singles thread ?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/409242-singles-tam-2018-a.html


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## tripad

RandomDude said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laws ? Police reports n court order are possible but at the moment , cost and time not worth my while .
> 
> Also , it doesnt benefit my children if I go full blast nasty .
> 
> Yes , pretty much a parasite .
> 
> Also , if the woman is of quality character , it may benefit my children though I may feel injustice that he gets away from karma .
> 
> But i kinda get the feel that the woman , from a neighboring country , may be eyeing his salary which is 3 times of her country's currency .
> 
> 
> 
> Not worth your while? You've been dealing with this for years now and it's been costing you your LIFE. He's been sucking your energy, your happiness, your money out of you. INVEST in your future and stop letting him continue to make you miserable.
> 
> Doesn't benefit your children? Why? What redeemable quality does he even have that can even justify him having the right to be their father? Go full blast nasty, because he's full blast human waste.
> 
> 
> 
> tripad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is the other singles thread ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/409242-singles-tam-2018-a.html
Click to expand...

He has been an ultimate ass . Going forward , I want to be happy . Cant be miserable over what had happened .

Just laid new house rules , nothing leaves the house . The toy gun is small issue . 

What hurts is the emotions , that he could do that . 

Also , when i reminded him children support is starting jan 2019 n he better get his act together . He told me he has no money n text me to fuzk off . 

In the mean time , he is probably busy chasing skirts n buying dinner . 

That hurts n stings . 

To think that his 401k savings may be lost to others , it stings . 

Yet , letting the children acknowledge their father without telling them the juicy brutal truths so as not to hurt their innocence is causing me to want to burst n scream . I m acting all cool with my kids , ice cream n movies n school work when i want to just scream n cry . 

I really need to cry . No one to cry to . Really tough . 

Thoughts cross my mind , maybe if i were to go out n hook up a man or two , would that make me feel better , like kinda getting even . 

Then again , why would I contaminate my thoughts n body with evil thoughts n doings . Can't fuxk if there's no love , just me . 

Ranting away .......


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## tripad

FP is right

I cant do anything about how he carries his life n spends his money or 401k savings . That is why i feel so helpless about the situation . 

Yes , you are also right , i can only work so my children can have access to a better life n education . That's why I am working my ass off .


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## tripad

I brought my kids for ski holiday in Japan , invested in their sports n hobbies n they played for the school , invested in their education and they won awards . 

The ex did nothing but posted photos n boasted about it on instagram like he had done it - something which my kids critisized him about . To impress the public n especially the women perhaps . If the women have any brains at all , seeing that the ass is always alone doing his own fun stuff , should know better that he is a dead beat dad .


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## RandomDude

At this point I would reveal the truth to your children but it would probably come at no surprise to them.


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## NY2018

Hello, maybe this isn't the best place to make introductions, but saying hi to the other singles on TAM.


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## tripad

So quiet for so long ! Everyone busy getting laid ??? Grin


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## tripad

Ooooooo . Just realise Everyone jump onto the other thread ????


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## FeministInPink

Yes, we're all on the new Singles 2018 thread.

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