# Is she seeing someone else?



## Paul170337

I am wondering if my wife is seeing someone else.

Things have changed over the last 12 months. My wife is wanting to go out more and more with her friends over last 12 months. She hardly ever went out in the past. She is now averaging 1 or 2 times a week going out with her girlfriends to lunch, movies, girls night outs, coffee, etc etc. Our time/nights out together has suffered due to this 

She lost a bit of weight about 6 months ago and feels good about herself which is great. She is more confident and seems happier which again is great. 

We have drifted apart a little since the kids were born which I think most couples do as you spend more time with your kids than each other. Our sex life has also suffered, but I guess isn't to bad. 

I chatted with her a few weeks ago and asked her what has changed and she said she needed time away from our 2 year old. He is demanding and at times hard to look after. I understand this, but it is getting more and more to the point where things are out of character for her. e.g - she is probably the most organised person I know. She needed to go up to the shops the other night as she forgot to buy eggs for the kids at Easter. Something that should take 30 minutes took about 80 mins?

She never lets me see her phone and has a facebook account where some of her new friends I don't even know? She is always on her phone!

Anyway, I am not sure if I am just paranoid or there is something going on? I understand people need their own time but she is changing and things are out of character?

I need advice on whether she could be cheating or the signs of cheating. Need your help!

Paul


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## Thound

Odds are she is seeing someone else. Dont let her know you are suspicious. Move or start a new thread in coping with infedlity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jane1213

Is she stay at home mom? Is there a history of EA or PA in your marriage?


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## tom67

Look at her phone bill put a voice activated recorder in her car to figure out what you are up against.
There are no secrets in a marriage.


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## tom67

Find a babysitter borrow a friends car and follow her on one of these nights out.


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## Paul170337

jane1213 said:


> Is she stay at home mom? Is there a history of EA or PA in your marriage?


What is EA or PA?


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## Paul170337

tom67 said:


> Look at her phone bill put a voice activated recorder in her car to figure out what you are up against.
> There are no secrets in a marriage.



I have never seen her phone bill? I think it comes electronically?


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## Paul170337

tom67 said:


> Find a babysitter borrow a friends car and follow her on one of these nights out.



Yes, but she knows my car so will see it I think?


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## Paul170337

Paul170337 said:


> What is EA or PA?



She is a stay at home mum


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## tom67

Paul170337 said:


> What is EA or PA?


EA=emotional affair

PA=physical affair


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## Paul170337

tom67 said:


> EA=emotional affair
> 
> PA=physical affair



No. well not that I know!!


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## Catherine602

Will you consider moving this thread to Coping With Infidelity section? You'll get more responses from people who are betrayed or think they are. 

There are effective ways you may be able to find out. For the time being, don't lat her know you suspect anything. 

2 times a week? Even if she is not cheating, going out 2 times a week seems excessive. Suppose you went out? Your baby will have only 3 evening with both parents. 

Ask her if she thinks the baby should be punished for being a normal 2yr old by the absence of his mother for 2 evenings out of the wk.


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## Paul170337

Catherine602 said:


> Will you consider moving this thread to Coping With Infidelity section? You'll get more responses from people who are betrayed or think they are.
> 
> There are effective ways you may be able to find out. For the time being, don't lat her know you suspect anything.
> 
> 2 times a week? Even if she is not cheating, going out 2 times a week is excessive. Suppose you went out? Your baby will have only 3 evening with both parents.
> 
> Ask her if she thinks the baby should be punished for being a normal 2yr old by the absence of his mother for 2 evenings out of the wk.


Thanks Catherine. I have moved it


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## tom67

Obviously she has something to hide if she won't let you see her phone.
This is not normal for married couples to keep secrets like this.

Find a way to get a hold of her phone.


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## EasyPartner

She may or may not be having an affair, can't tell. It can be another problem too. It maybe nothing (yet).

Sex is still OK so that's a good thing already.

You may think it's out of character for her but maybe she just has evolved that way (Q: were you guys fairly young when you got together?)

If this is the case, be sure you become part of her change.

On that matter: you stated you drifted apart... why do you think and in what ways?


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## WhiteRaven

*Re: Is my wife seeing someone else*



Paul170337 said:


> She never lets me see her phone and has a facebook account where some of her new friends I don't even know? She is always on her phone!


Yes, she is having an A. 



Paul170337 said:


> Something that should take 30 minutes took about 80 mins?


It's not only an EA anymore. It's PA. 

Call your family and friends for a dinner and when everyone's around, snatch her phone. Tell everyone why you are doing it, and your wife must prove you wrong, else you are filing for D the next day. Ignore everything she says, she does. Just concentrate on getting the passwords of her phone, emails and fb.

If you want to save your family, expose the A. Post the OM on Cheatersville, send exposure mails to his friends and family, to his workplace, to his church, to his neighbors. Expose to your wife's friends, family and workplace as well.


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## Paul170337

EasyPartner said:


> She may or may not be having an affair, can't tell. It can be another problem too. It maybe nothing (yet).
> 
> Sex is still OK so that's a good thing already.
> 
> You may think it's out of character for her but maybe she just has evolved that way (Q: were you guys fairly young when you got together?)
> 
> If this is the case, be sure you become part of her change.
> 
> On that matter: you stated you drifted apart... why do you think and in what ways?


She was 24 when we meet. I am 8 years older.

What have drifted apart as we don't talk much anymore. she doesn't come up to me and hug me anymore I have to initiate it. We are sometimes like ships in the night?


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## EasyPartner

Catherine602 said:


> Will you consider moving this thread to Coping With Infidelity section? You'll get more responses from people who are betrayed or think they are.
> 
> There are effective ways you may be able to find out. For the time being, don't lat her know you suspect anything.
> 
> 2 times a week? Even if she is not cheating, going out 2 times a week is excessive. Suppose you went out? Your baby will have only 3 evening with both parents.
> 
> Ask her if she thinks the baby should be punished for being a normal 2yr old by the absence of his mother for 2 evenings out of the wk.


Way to soon to move it to CWI IMO.

OP doesn't know much yet really. 

You can probably move ANY thread (including the ones about wearing cologne or the situation in the Ukraine) to CWI and get it labeled with adultery over there


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## intuitionoramiwrong

*Re: Is my wife seeing someone else*



WhiteRaven said:


> Yes, she is having an A.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not only an EA anymore. It's PA.
> 
> Call your family and friends for a dinner and when everyone's around, snatch her phone. Tell everyone why you are doing it, and your wife must prove you wrong, else you are filing for D the next day. Ignore everything she says, she does. Just concentrate on getting the passwords of her phone, emails and fb.
> 
> If you want to save your family, expose the A. Post the OM on Cheatersville, send exposure mails to his friends and family, to his workplace, to his church, to his neighbors. Expose to your wife's friends, family and workplace as well.


Well that escalated quickly...he hasn't found a single thing to prove she is having an affair. Not saying she isn't...but seriously?


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## Paul170337

EasyPartner said:


> Way to soon to move it to CWI IMO.
> 
> OP doesn't know much yet really.
> 
> You can probably move ANY thread (including the ones about wearing cologne or the situation in the Ukraine) to CWI and get it labeled with adultery over there


sorry guys, what is op and cwi?


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## tom67

*Re: Is my wife seeing someone else*



intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Well that escalated quickly...he hasn't found a single thing to prove she is having an affair. Not saying she isn't...but seriously?


He has to find out what he is up against.
Put a VAR in her car.
Check her phone records.
Physically get her phone.


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## DoF

Chances are, your gut is a good indicator of what's happening.

How about this. If she has nothing to hide, she SHOULD be able to give you all of her account information.

I would ask her polity to share her account information as you feel that she is drifting apart and are suspicious.

The key to this is TIMING. You do NOT want to tell her this and then she will go off and delete all her Facebook texts etc prior to you seeing it.

So when you ask, you should expect to see the phone right there and then. 

Even the slightest hesitation from her end = WATCH OUT, something is up.

Facebook and these new phones = bad news for couples/relationships. It's SO easy to get addicted to these things and completely lose yourself in it.

Find out what's up OP, you know very well SOMETHING is.


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## EasyPartner

Paul170337 said:


> sorry guys, what is op and cwi?


OP= original poster. That would be you.

CWI = the Coping With Infidelity section on TAM. You may very well not belong there IMO.


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## tom67

EasyPartner said:


> OP= original poster. That would be you.
> 
> CWI = the Coping With Infidelity section on TAM. You may very well not belong there IMO.


Her being secret with FB and the phone are red flags.
Every couple should have each others passwords and access.

He has to at least find out.


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## tom67

Does your wife work or is she a sahm?
Will a PA be a deal breaker for you?

Just things to think about.


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## doubletrouble

Lots of red flags. Time to start snooping. Don't confront without evidence, but then, don't reveal your sources, either. 

A VAR (voice activated recorder) may be very useful to put in her car, or in the house where she normally talks on the phone. 

Weightlifter, a poster here, has the mantle of TAM 007 stuff. You can PM him for more info. I'll do you one better; I'll PM him with a link to your thread.


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## Acabado

Friend, you need to play dumb for awhile and put yourself into stealth mode ASAP.

VARs, keylogger,s spywaare... the whole homemade PI stuff.

Search a poster named weightlifter and oull his posts, he's the best at snooping and catching cheating spouses.

Your wife's bahavior follow the cheater's common script, it seriusly looks bad. Very bad. Find out what's going on before any confrontation. Then come here to prepare it.


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## jb02157

She is showing all the signs of having an affair. I would barrow a friends car, get a baby sitter and follow her. You probably won't like what you'll see. I wouldn't tell her that you think she's having an affair unless you know and can provide evidence that she is.


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## 6301

Ask to see her phone and listen very clearly to her answer. If she starts jawing at you that you don't have the right to see what's on her phone or won't give you the password, then she has something to hide. If there was nothing to hide she would just hand it to you with no problem.

If she changes her mind and hands it to you later on, don't be surprised if all the information is erased. 

Look she's your wife and you know her best and if you feel that the winds of change have hit your marriage then your probably right. 

Maybe you should put a GPS in her car and see where she goes before all this dives you crazy. Either that or hire a PI if you can afford it.


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## tom67

Okay she is a sahm.
Today get 2 vars one for the house and one for the car.


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## LongWalk

Buy a VAR and put it in her car.

If you can look at the traffic from her mobile/cell phone, you can see if messages or texts somebody often. Look up the numbers and see who they are?

Who are her GF's? Do you know them? Are they toxic, i.e., divorced or going through affairs? 

You should work out on weights. Get in shape. Act confident. Show her that you can be happy without her.

Buy yourself some new duds. Get new haircut. Wear a new aftershave. Be a little different.

Your gut feelings are probably telling you something important. Cheating? You need to be vigilant. Whatever you do, don't be needy and cling. She won't like it.


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## Acabado

Read weightlifter's standar advice in this thread ( page 2)

Confused.... again


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## arbitrator

*If your cell phones are on a joint bill or if you are the one paying her bill, you can order the copies of her cell phone activity, albeit calling and texting through simple request. Catch her sleeping and audit her cell phone calling/texting activity on her phone. Place a voice activated recorder under the seat of her car.

Once in hand, look for frequently called numbers and you can have the phone company ID those for you, if you at least mildly challenge the bill!

Changes in travelling away from home; adopting new dressing trends such as new and sexier apparel, especially panties that you've never seen her wear before; new grooming activity, both visible and hidden(pubic area); and the sudden disappearance of sex and intimacy with her.

Judging from what I've heard so far, I would think that there could well be reason for concern on your part!*


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## tom67

arbitrator said:


> If your cell phones are on a joint bill or if you are the one paying her bill, you can order the copies of her cell phone activity, albeit calling and texting through simple request.
> 
> Once in hand, look for frequently called numbers and you can have the phone company ID those for you, if you at least mildly challenge the bill!
> 
> Changes in leaving home; adopting new dressing trends such as new and sexier apparel, especially panties that you've never seen her wear before; new grooming activity, both visible and hidden(pubic area); and the sudden disappearance of sex and intimacy with her.
> 
> Judging from what I've heard so far, I would think that there could well be reason for concern on your part!


Plus the loss of weight she is most likely looking for an upgrade so to speak.
How often have we seen this scenario.


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## EasyPartner

Paul170337 said:


> She was 24 when we meet. I am 8 years older.
> 
> What have drifted apart as we don't talk much anymore. she doesn't come up to me and hug me anymore I have to initiate it. We are sometimes like ships in the night?


Not very good indeed, that. But no sure signs of cheating either.

I looks like she's emotionally disconnecting from you, for some reason... boredom at home? Quarterlife crisis (SAHM married young...)? Her needs not being fulfilled by yourself? Etc...

Mind you, all this doesn't exclude that she is cheating on you... but if she is, the cheating may be more of a symptom than the cause of your problems...


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## WhiteRaven

Phone privacy is a sureshot indicator that your spouse is having an A.


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## tom67

Prepare yourself financially if things go south.
You will be hammered with her being a sahm.
You may want to open a separate bank acct. so she doesn't wipe you out.
Carry a VAR with you so she doesn't get you kicked out ofthe house and move om in.
Be prepared that's all.


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## Catherine602

EasyPartner said:


> Way to soon to move it to CWI IMO.
> 
> OP doesn't know much yet really.
> 
> You can probably move ANY thread (including the ones about wearing cologne or the situation in the Ukraine) to CWI and get it labeled with adultery over there


You may be right, but what should he do. If he does nothing and she is having an affair, it will continue. 

I think I understand what you are saying, don't destroy a good relationship by overzealous snooping. 

Prevention - transparently, no outings to bars with out each other and more alone time to reconnect.


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## lifeistooshort

I'm private with my phone because I'm a private person but I'm not having an affair. If my hb asked I'd let him see it but I wouldn't be thrilled about it because I have private texting conversations with my sister and a couple of my gf's. And sometimes I go to the store to pick something up and linger there; frankly I'd be a little p!ssed off if my hb decided how much time it should take me.

Having said that if there's general disconnect you should deal with that; I just don't get the constant jumping to an affair that goes on in this site. Have you discussed the disconnect with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2

Your entire first post was a list of small things (what we call red flags) that point to an affair. A single red flag may not mean anything but they add up. 

That is occurred after she lost weight is especially concerning. A woman’s body image is vary important to her sexual confidence. She may have been insecure because of her weight. Now she looks good and is getting complements from strangers. This is exciting and makes her especially vulnerable. She is living the life of a single woman.

Don't let her know you suspect anything. Besides a VAR you need to put a GPS on her car. Some you can check in real time on your computer and less expensive ones you check periodically.


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## weightlifter

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything said into the phone is right here. I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to. Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS. It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## Chaparral

Phone always on hip, GNOs twice a week, facebook password protected, 30 minute trip to store takes 80 minutes, lack of affection, sahm, new friends etc.

Way to many redflags to ignore.

Do NOT let her know you are suspicious.

Two vars, gps a must. One bag for car velcroed under the front seat, one var in the house. Gps her car.

You will have your answers within 2 or 3 days. Probably less.

Get the vars in weightlifters post. Costco also has them.


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## azteca1986

Sorry you're here, OP. It doesn't look good. Do nothing for now. Read the link below and get your head around some of the acronyms, etc

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## BobSimmons

*Re: Is my wife seeing someone else*



intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Well that escalated quickly...he hasn't found a single thing to prove she is having an affair. Not saying she isn't...but seriously?


Hahaha seriously though, just disregard such posts, clearly talking nonsense


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## tom67

From other Australians on this site I believe you have to be separated for one year for d?
OP go to a solicitor/lawyer and know your options, none of which are all that great.


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## EasyPartner

Catherine602 said:


> You may be right, but what should he do. If he does nothing and she is having an affair, it will continue.
> 
> I think I understand what you are saying, don't destroy a good relationship by overzealous snooping.
> 
> Prevention - transparently, no outings to bars with out each other and more alone time to reconnect.


You understood me well. If a man is paranoid doesn't mean he's not being stalked per se 

See the last posts?

If I was OP I'd be freaking out bad already. Not good for his cool. Which is exactly what he needs right now.

He doesn't even have a game plan yet for when he discovers her affair or doesn't find any proof of one. In the last case, he may have driven her out of the door already, baby and everything... same when she discovers the snooping.

Anyway, I would really take it slower in this situation.


----------



## tom67

EasyPartner said:


> You understood me well. Not because a man is paranoid doesn't mean he's not being stalked per se
> 
> See the last posts?
> 
> If I was OP I'd be freaking out bad already. Not good for his cool. Which is exactly what he needs right now.
> 
> He doesn't even have a game plan yet for when he discovers her affair or doesn't find any proof of one. In the last case, he may have driven her out of the door already, baby and everything... same when she discovers the snooping.
> 
> Anyway, I would really take it slower in this situation.


:iagree::iagree:
OP should be in stupid mode right now like he doesn't suspect a thing all the while being James Bond at the same time.
Easier said than done.


----------



## weightlifter

OP went thru this.

Steel yourself this is likely grim.

You need to work this NOW. I realize you are roughly 12 hours ahead so will have to wait till Wed. GET THE VAR NOW. GEt the GPS NOW!

GIANT WARNING. If you hear your wife start to get busy in the car with another man STOP listening. You cant unhear your wife moaning with another man inside her and it will mess you up even worse!

Please indicate the number of times she is out late per week. Lunch with GFs is not as big as late nights.
How many trips shopping "take too long?" per week?


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

yup...don't tip her off so that she goes deeper under cover (that is if something is going on).
Start doing your homework here.


----------



## Cubby

Paul, if (when?) you find out information as to what your wife is doing, do not confront her without coming here first for instructions. Just quietly gather evidence without her knowing then let the experts here guide you as to your next step.


----------



## badkarma2013

My d-day came when in my gut i knew something was off!

Her phone became her life...gone odd times for no reason...

started talking about her boss(looking back) way more than normal

and a dozen other red flags i chose to ignore.

when i got her phone .....my NIGHTMARE was a reality....


----------



## Chaparral

CASE_Sensitive said:


> yup...don't tip her off so that she goes deeper under cover (that is if something is going on).
> Start doing your homework here.





weightlifter said:


> OP went thru this.
> 
> Steel yourself this is likely grim.
> 
> You need to work this NOW. I realize you are roughly 12 hours ahead so will have to wait till Wed. GET THE VAR NOW. GEt the GPS NOW!
> 
> GIANT WARNING. If you hear your wife start to get busy in the car with another man STOP listening. You cant unhear your wife moaning with another man inside her and it will mess you up even worse!
> 
> Please indicate the number of times she is out late per week. Lunch with GFs is not as big as late nights.
> How many trips shopping "take too long?" per week?


This is assuming the luches are actually with a girl friend.

If you do manage to get her phone, a guys number will be listed under a girls name. Check every number out.

What kind of phone does she have and can it be backed up to a computer. Deleted texts and calls may be retrieved.

Does she keep it locked all the time. Some cheaters spend a lot of time in the bathroom calling. Some sleep with it under their pillow. Just how tight with it is she?


----------



## arbitrator

weightlifter said:


> *GIANT WARNING. If you hear your wife start to get busy in the car with another man STOP listening. You cant unhear your wife moaning with another man inside her and it will mess you up even worse!*


*That, by itself, literally makes me sick to even think about it, much less hear it!*


----------



## weightlifter

I post the warning for a reason. Because it will. Knowing hurts. Adding audio will destroy you.


----------



## Paul170337

Chaparral said:


> This is assuming the luches are actually with a girl friend.
> 
> If you do manage to get her phone, a guys number will be listed under a girls name. Check every number out.
> 
> What kind of phone does she have and can it be backed up to a computer. Deleted texts and calls may be retrieved.
> 
> Does she keep it locked all the time. Some cheaters spend a lot of time in the bathroom calling. Some sleep with it under their pillow. Just how tight with it is she?


She has it with her when she sleeps and when she is in the bathroom. Hardly ever leaves it out. Even if I did have it its locked all the time!


----------



## Paul170337

weightlifter said:


> OP went thru this.
> 
> Steel yourself this is likely grim.
> 
> You need to work this NOW. I realize you are roughly 12 hours ahead so will have to wait till Wed. GET THE VAR NOW. GEt the GPS NOW!
> 
> GIANT WARNING. If you hear your wife start to get busy in the car with another man STOP listening. You cant unhear your wife moaning with another man inside her and it will mess you up even worse!
> 
> Please indicate the number of times she is out late per week. Lunch with GFs is not as big as late nights.
> How many trips shopping "take too long?" per week?


She would be out 2 times a week for coffee or one of her friends is going through trouble with her own marriage and she says she has to help her or girls night out etc


----------



## weightlifter

You need to get into full 007 mode now.
What phone?
What carrier?
Oh need the other questions answered from my last post also.

Get this done TODAY. 2 vars and one gps for her car.


----------



## Paul170337

weightlifter said:


> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up.
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
> 
> So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
> Rule 1 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 2 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 3 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> 
> NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY!
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
> 
> Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
> Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
> Set VOR "on" see page 38
> See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
> Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
> Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
> also
> Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
> The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
> attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
> 
> Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
> 
> I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
> 
> Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.
> 
> IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality.
> 
> Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.
> 
> There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
> 
> If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work.
> 
> For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords
> 
> For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords
> 
> If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell.
> 
> Credit john1068
> Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...
> 
> On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself.
> 
> There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there.
> 
> Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.
> 
> You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.
> 
> Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.
> 
> Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...
> 
> But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ).
> 
> They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.
> 
> IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> Credit rodphoto 01162014
> After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.
> 
> From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!
> 
> Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.
> 
> "spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked.
> 
> Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.
> 
> Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed.
> 
> Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward.
> 
> Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears.
> 
> You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!
> 
> Credit tacoma 03072014
> 
> This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history
> 
> Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything said into the phone is right here. I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to. Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS. It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


Thanks weightlifter. The only problem I have is I am not tech savy! Lot of this stuff goes over my head. I guess easiest thing to do is GPS car or voice recorder?


----------



## MattMatt

Is she suffering from post-natal depression?


----------



## Refuse to be played

weightlifter said:


> I post the warning for a reason. Because it will. Knowing hurts. Adding audio will destroy you.


There's a tread from a year ago where the guy (SoConfused1) listened. Not pretty.


----------



## Paul170337

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm private with my phone because I'm a private person but I'm not having an affair. If my hb asked I'd let him see it but I wouldn't be thrilled about it because I have private texting conversations with my sister and a couple of my gf's. And sometimes I go to the store to pick something up and linger there; frankly I'd be a little p!ssed off if my hb decided how much time it should take me.
> 
> Having said that if there's general disconnect you should deal with that; I just don't get the constant jumping to an affair that goes on in this site. Have you discussed the disconnect with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think lifeistooshort quote is most relevant to me and makes me think. If I confront her about her phone and facebook she will play the trust card. She will say I don't trust her etc etc. I agree everyone needs a little privacy in there lives. If I am wrong and confront her it would blow things up. I guess best thing to do is play dumb, play along and try and find evidence without going crazy! I keep thinking that I am just paranoid and going over the top. Kids are very demanding and she just might need time and space to recoup????


----------



## weightlifter

Dude. With as many red flags as you have the probability it's nothing is very very low. Your story is the same as hundreds of men here before you.

My little instruction set has busted 31wives and two husbands.

Get the VARs Velcro and lithium batteries. Sony icdpx333. Don't substitute.

Get the GPS.

I provided instructions. Execute.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Paul170337 said:


> I think lifeistooshort quote is most relevant to me and makes me think. If I confront her about her phone and facebook she will play the trust card. She will say I don't trust her etc etc. I agree everyone needs a little privacy in there lives. If I am wrong and confront her it would blow things up. I guess best thing to do is play dumb, play along and try and find evidence without going crazy! I keep thinking that I am just paranoid and going over the top. Kids are very demanding and she just might need time and space to recoup????


Cheating spouses ALWAYS play the trust card.

"You don't trust me"
"I need my privacy"

ALWAYS.

When she goes #2 does she take the phone with her? Check it then. If she does it's also a bad sign.

It could be nothing. Absolutely. But too many little red flags. You need to see the outgoing and incoming messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Graywolf2

Paul170337 said:


> One of her friends is going through trouble with her own marriage and she says she has to help her or girls night out etc


The woman your wife is "helping" is telling her husband the same thing.


----------



## Paul170337

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Cheating spouses ALWAYS play the trust card.
> 
> "You don't trust me"
> "I need my privacy"
> 
> ALWAYS.
> 
> When she goes #2 does she take the phone with her? Check it then. If she does it's also a bad sign.
> 
> It could be nothing. Absolutely. But too many little red flags. You need to see the outgoing and incoming messages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just cant believe she would go down this line! If she wasn't happy and wanted to be with someone else why wouldn't just leave. Why do it in this manner. I can't work that out! Yes, I guess I am in denial...!


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Could be depression. Thrills. Mid life crisis. Who knows. 

Could be nothing. But you need to know one way or the other. It will consume you otherwise.

Next girls night out- rent a car and follow her. Or hire a PI to follow her (private investigator/detective). Get into that phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Paul170337 said:


> She would be out 2 times a week for coffee or one of her friends is going through trouble with her own marriage and she says she has to help her or girls night out etc


Have you ever followed her? If not .... why haven't you? If your Spiddy senses are tingeling then it's incumbent on you to verify, if for nothing else but to put your mind at ease.


----------



## Paul170337

The Middleman said:


> Have you ever followed her? If not .... why haven't you? If your Spiddy senses are tingeling then it's incumbent on you to verify, if for nothing else but to put your mind at ease.


Hard to do when I am looking after the kids?


----------



## anchorwatch

Paul170337 said:


> Hard to do when I am looking after the kids?


Then you're her childminder, not her husband?

It's evident that since you're so afraid of conflict, you'd rather argue with yourself then take a few steps to protect your marriage and family. She's demoted you from lover to babysitter.

Take the action or sit there watch others dictate you future without you.


----------



## The Middleman

Paul170337 said:


> Hard to do when I am looking after the kids?


Sorry for putting it this way, but all I'm hearing is an excuse not to do it. If you want to put this behind you, you will find a way to make it happen. The best way to find out is to follow her. Do you really want to find out? Or would you rather not know.

Let me ask you something: What would she do if you didn't come home on a night she was planing to go out? Would she still find a way to go out?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Then hire someone to follow her.... But first get into that phone.

So when you ask to see it what does she say?

"Misplace" your phone one night. Maybe purposefully leave it at work or something one night. Ask to borrow hers. You want to look up the number of the pizza place or some excuse. Would she immediately hand it over? Or would she scrub it for a minute or two first.

You have no idea what her Facebook password is, if you wanted to go on her account from a PC? Facebook messages = great way to text someone without it showing on a bill. Same with iPhones. What phone does your wife have? iMessages don't show up on a bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

Follow the advise to play dumb for now while you check things out with a VAR in the car & home. Get a key logger on her computer it's not hard to do. Keep your eyes open and ears to the ground. 

Hope it's nothing but too many red flags to ignore. You are the head of your family and need to ensure the best environment for your children. You may have to lay down the law - but you'll need evidence. 

The bit about her protecting her phone like it's a state secret is a common red flag. If she 'swears on the life of her kids' it's the clincher.


----------



## the guy

Paul170337 said:


> She would be out 2 times a week for coffee or one of her friends is going through trouble with her own marriage and she says she has to help her or girls night out etc


This is very bad...a huge red flag!!!!

Start investigating NOW!!!!!!


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

If you can't follow her or don't want to then buy two VARs and hide them well and stick a real-time GPS in her car.

Turn the VAR off if you start to hear anything horrible. Find a friend or family member who will listen to it for you and let you know what happened. You could even upload the file and send it to someone here.

Take what you find out and post it here. We will all give you more advice but you've got to start acting.


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

Also really wouldn't be surprised if her friend that is getting a divorce is actually a guy...


----------



## Graywolf2

Paul170337 said:


> She needed to go up to the shops the other night as she forgot to buy eggs for the kids at Easter. Something that should take 30 minutes took about 80 mins?


At least put a GPS on her car to ease your mind.


----------



## Paul170337

The Middleman said:


> Sorry for putting it this way, but all I'm hearing is an excuse not to do it. If you want to put this behind you, you will find a way to make it happen. The best way to find out is to follow her. Do you really want to find out? Or would you rather not know.
> 
> Let me ask you something: What would she do if you didn't come home on a night she was planing to go out? Would she still find a way to go out?


Yes, she gets her mum to look after the kids!


----------



## the guy

12 months ago this started out innicent enough and getting away for a few was good but it has snow balled and you have dropped all boundries and the attention she is getting from other men 12 months ago has worn on her and she is full blown out of control.

She has lost respect for you. with all the other men coming on to her and combine that with the toxic friend with marriage trouble she is getting bombbarded with enemies that will infect your marriage.

Act now she may be realy close to falling in love with someone if not already. Right now she is staying for the kids and your security.

She is getting excitementt from someone else.


----------



## Paul170337

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Then hire someone to follow her.... But first get into that phone.
> 
> So when you ask to see it what does she say?
> 
> "Misplace" your phone one night. Maybe purposefully leave it at work or something one night.  Ask to borrow hers. You want to look up the number of the pizza place or some excuse. Would she immediately hand it over? Or would she scrub it for a minute or two first.
> 
> You have no idea what her Facebook password is, if you wanted to go on her account from a PC? Facebook messages = great way to text someone without it showing on a bill. Same with iPhones. What phone does your wife have? iMessages don't show up on a bill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't know her password on facebook! She has an Iphone but I have never seen her bill!


----------



## the guy

Get the GPS and the VAR.get those in place and work on passwords once this gear is in place.

Your not tech savy so work with what you can.


----------



## The Middleman

Paul170337 said:


> Yes, she gets her mum to look after the kids!


Case closed. You have to take a leadership role in this marriage instead of being led. Men who don't take a leadership role in the marriage are far more likely to be cheated on by their wives than men who do take the leadership role. 

Do yourself a favor and tail her the next time she goes out. Don't come home the next night she goes out. Let her call her mother and then you follow her and find out what she is really up to. 

My guess ..... she is seeing another guy.


----------



## Paul170337

the guy said:


> Get the GPS and the VAR.get those in place and work on passwords once this gear is in place.
> 
> Your not tech savy so work with what you can.


I am not sure where you buy them? I am in Melbourne Australia.


----------



## the guy

once you confirm she is cheating you can work on the tech stuff to find OM (other man) or OM's.


----------



## Pepper123

Paul... For what it is worth, I am a woman and I agree with these guys on the diagnosis of the state of your marriage. It is hanging on by a thread, because she is most likely seeing someone else. If I had to venture to guess, I'd say it is both an EA & PA at this point. 

Also, just for the record, I find her argument about the 2yo being difficult somewhat reprehensible. Ever hear of the terrible twos? Their entire purpose at that age is to test boundaries. Maybe he is acting out because he wants attention, because she is too busy with herself during the day to be giving him the attention he seeks. 

I'd start with the cell phone bill. You can get a copy if you really want to -- the question is do you? After that, try and get to her email, check browsing history, etc. Look not just at the email addresses that you know about, but potentially hosts that you don't (ie. you know she has gmail, but also go to yahoo.com, hotmail.com, etc. Maybe she has one you don't know about, and left it signed in thinking it was safe). 

Women don't do those kind of things when they are happily married... You have much reason to be concerned. I know you are scared... I would be too. But you can't even begin to fix something (if that is your decision) without finding out where the cracks are. Stop the leak before the entire thing shatters. 

I wish you well... I really do.


----------



## the guy

there may be hope, have you gotten the " I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

The Middleman said:


> Case closed. You have to take a leadership role in this marriage instead of being led. Men who don't take a leadership role in the marriage are far more likely to be cheated on by their wives than men who do take the leadership role.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and tail her the next time she goes out. Don't come home the next night she goes out. Let her call her mother and then you follow her and find out what she is really up to.
> 
> My guess ..... she is seeing another guy.


Yes. Make up an excuse you had to work late. Rent a car and follow her. Do not use your own car. Friday/weekend rentals $20 a day.

She doesn't leave her phone unguarded at all? At night? Bathroom? Anything? Is it passcode protected? Automatic? After 5, 10, 15 minutes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Graywolf2

rustytheboyrobot said:


> Also really wouldn't be surprised if her friend that is getting a divorce is actually a guy...


I was considering the same thing. For some reason women can’t seem to resist a heartbroken guy. Years ago a female friend of mine actually gave a guy she didn’t care for at all a sympathy fu*k because he was so depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend. 

I asked her for one too but she said she wasn’t sorry for me.


----------



## the guy

Again this all may have started out as a break from the kid. but it has in fact snowballed.

after 12 months she has a million things fighting against the marriage.

Just going out to get eggs is given your wife an oppertunity to grow this cancer...80 min. .....really????

So to have an effective confrontation you need a smoking gun that will blow her out of the water.
If you want names and number you are going to have to learn real quick....folks here will help you so listen!


----------



## Jasel

*Re: Is my wife seeing someone else*



WhiteRaven said:


> Call your family and friends for a dinner and when everyone's around, snatch her phone. Tell everyone why you are doing it, and your wife must prove you wrong, else you are filing for D the next day.


C'mon dude that's some pretty bad advice.


----------



## the guy

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Yes. Make up an excuse you had to work late. Rent a car and follow her. Do not use your own car. Friday/weekend rentals $20 a day.
> 
> She doesn't leave her phone unguarded at all? At night? Bathroom? Anything? Is it passcode protected? Automatic? After 5, 10, 15 minutes?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


According to the cheaters script OP's old lady is sleeping with it under her pillow

WW has her sh1t locked down for a reason, OP has his work cut out for him.

She may come home drunk one night and he can pull on the charger cord and get it out from under the pillow like I did

If he is lucky he can start guessing at passwords.


----------



## the guy

Paul170337 said:


> I am not sure where you buy them? I am in Melbourne Australia.


You found us ... then you can find a GPS and a VAR:smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> You found us ... then you can find a GPS and a VAR:smthumbup:


Go to amazon
Amazon.com: sony voice recorder icd-px312


----------



## Graywolf2

weightlifter said:


> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.





Paul170337 said:


> I am not sure where you buy them? I am in Melbourne Australia.


Just search for “GPS tracking” online. I did and they are at electronic stores in your area that sell them. You also have Amazon. NOTE: Delete your search history from the computer.

*You have Radio Shack in Melbourne Australia*


----------



## happyman64

Paul

The vars are a good idea.

You hide one in her car and the other one in the house where she talks most of the time.

Stay calm.

She may not be cheating. 

But take it from a guy with 3 kids and 22 years of marriage. We know each others passcodes for everything.

And even though my wife pays all the bills I have access to all bills as well.

One poster got his wifes phone and looked at the smudges on her screen when the digits popped up.

He figured out her code that way. 

He waited till she walked away from her phone and walked out the door with it.

Stay strong. Stay calm.

Do your due diligence and find out what is going on in your marriage.

HM


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Jaycar

Seems to be a large electronics retailer in Australia including stores in Melbourne.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbados

Paul170337 said:


> *I just cant believe she would go down this line! If she wasn't happy and wanted to be with someone else why wouldn't just leave*. Why do it in this manner. I can't work that out! Yes, I guess I am in denial...!


If cheaters just were up front and honest beforehand, came up to their spouses / significant others and said : " Hey, I don't want you any more, I am going to find someone else, its over", and then left BEFORE THEY CHEATED, then the CWI section on TAM would not exist.

Unfortunately, cheaters almost NEVER do this. They sneak around behind your back, cause the betrayed spouse terrible pain and anguish, and it eventually ends badly.

Also, everyone who gets cheated one is in denial at first. None of us thought He/ she would cheat on US ! But they did !

Sorry you are here.


----------



## Paul170337

I have taken the first step. My best mate who is the only person I have told and trust is going to follow her for me and no...he is not a possible candidate!!!!


----------



## cool12

hope he finds she is being perfectly honest. 

hang in there.


----------



## happyman64

Paul170337 said:


> I have taken the first step. My best mate who is the only person I have told and trust is going to follow her for me and no...he is not a possible candidate!!!!


Good for you. Make sure he wears a wig and mustache.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

Paul170337 said:


> I am not sure where you buy them? I am in Melbourne Australia.


Dic* Smith's or OfficeWorks.


----------



## x598

Paul170337 said:


> I have taken the first step. My best mate who is the only person I have told and trust is going to follow her for me and no...he is not a possible candidate!!!!


good job. I feel horrible for you, I was in your exact position.

my words of advice to you at this point is to hang in there....its tough!! I know your mind is flooded with emotion and you probably cant think straight.

but what you need to ask yourself now, is WHAT ARE YOU GOING to do when you get confirmation she is screwing another guy?? because that's the next step. im very sorry, I so hope im wrong. but the fact that you are here and your gut is telling you there is something wrong is almost all the proof you need. read here on this forum....its been played out so many times.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Paul170337 said:


> I have taken the first step. My best mate who is the only person I have told and trust is going to follow her for me and no...he is not a possible candidate!!!!


Good job! Hopefully he finds nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

The second step will be to find out who the guy is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

the guy said:


> The second step will be to find out who the guy is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hopefully it's not the best mate. /shudder


----------



## weightlifter

All else failing Ive done a bunch of VAR work for others here ?10? ugh they blur together. Mostly audio clean up tho. Only actual 3 sex vars.


----------



## the guy

I think even if OP doesn't catch any sex on the VAR, he still needs to hear the degree of disrespect WW has for this marriage.

Clearly her action of being so distant from the family unit shows how much respect she has for her spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

If you can get her phone, try calling it from your phone. Someone here said you can answer it with out the passcode and then go through the history.

Getting the vars is your easiest route though. Office supply stores, electronic stores and big box discounr stores should carry them.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

the guy said:


> I think even if OP doesn't catch any sex on the VAR, he still needs to hear the degree of disrespect WW has for this marriage.
> 
> Clearly her action of being so distant from the family unit shows how much respect she has for her spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he leaves the VAR in her car for a few weeks, I think we have a pretty good idea of what will be on there.

If he hears an OM's voice, he should shut it off and have a close friend, or relative listen to the rest of it.

There's also a good chance that if she is having sex during GNO, she'll be doing it in the OM's vehicle. But he could hear the after math. His WS talking to the OM on her cell while she drives home.

If this is the case, I would try to bag her while she was in the act. Bring a friend and have him video the whole confrontation. There would be no denying it to family, friends and in court, if needed.


----------



## weightlifter

JustPuzzled said:


> That is key. The chance of catching something "in flagrante" is way less than just finding out that she disrespects OP and the marriage.


True but I need to warn against the possibility. He knows now.


----------



## Paul170337

D-day tomorrow as my mate is going to follow her. this is the day my 2 year is in childcare and other child is at school so has whole day to herself.

I don't think I need evidence after tonight. she rang me on the way home to see how far away I was. Normally asked me to get bread but indicated she wanted to get it herself. Before she left she spent 5 minutes in bathroom doing herself up but said she was going to the toliet. Smelt perfume and hair spray in bathroom after she left. it took her 30mins for something that would normally take 10mins max. She came home and straight away made an excuse without me asking anything. Over explaining herself again!

Even I don't get right evidence tomorrow I am going to confront her as I cant do this much longer!!

Paul


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Highly suggest you don't.
Otherwise you will get "gaslighted" - ie. convince you it's all in your mind, you're jealous for reason, etc, etc.

Suggest you start working out right now, getting your rage out any way you can so you can stay cool, focused and think of the big picture. Tipping your hat off now only lessens your options down the road.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

Paul170337 said:


> D-day tomorrow as my mate is going to follow her. this is the day my 2 year is in childcare and other child is at school so has whole day to herself.
> 
> I don't think I need evidence after tonight. she rang me on the way home to see how far away I was. Normally asked me to get bread but indicated she wanted to get it herself. Before she left she spent 5 minutes in bathroom doing herself up but said she was going to the toliet. Smelt perfume and hair spray in bathroom after she left. it took her 30mins for something that would normally take 10mins max. She came home and straight away made an excuse without me asking anything. Over explaining herself again!
> 
> Even I don't get right evidence tomorrow I am going to confront her as I cant do this much longer!!
> 
> Paul


I think you need to get more information before you confront. She is going to lie all of this away. Even if your friend follows her and sees her with a man, she will minimize it. I'd get a bit more intel first. 

Also I think it might be important to figure out whether you'd be willing to reconcile, or if this is a deal breaker. Start the 180 today.


----------



## anchorwatch

Paul170337 said:


> I have taken the first step. My best mate who is the only person I have told and trust is going to follow her for me and no...he is not a possible candidate!!!!


DO NOT CONFRONT YET!

YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/70930-guide-confronting-wayward-spouse.html

The quickest and most cost effective way to confirm what is really going on, would be to hide a digital voice activated recorder in her vehicle where she would feel confident to speak out loud. Then you'll address what you find. 

...........


Whatever happens in your M, you're going to have to address the reason why "you" allowed this dysfunction to get this far before addressing it. You let your personal boundaries down, because you're afraid to destabilise your relationship. You thought by sacrificing your needs for her's, things would get better and she would be able to connect with you more. Wrong, she only learned that she could push you around by showing her displeasure with you and you in turn compromise your needs. Here is where your falling, you are not responsible to solve her depression, she is! You are only responsible for you own. 

Here, read, understand...Dr Robert Glover's No More Mr Nice Guy

180 List

No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group 

Good luck,


----------



## Acabado

Paul170337 said:


> D-day tomorrow as my mate is going to follow her. this is the day my 2 year is in childcare and other child is at school so has whole day to herself.
> 
> *I don't think I need evidence after tonight*. she rang me on the way home to see how far away I was. Normally asked me to get bread but indicated she wanted to get it herself. Before she left she spent 5 minutes in bathroom doing herself up but said she was going to the toliet. Smelt perfume and hair spray in bathroom after she left. it took her 30mins for something that would normally take 10mins max. She came home and straight away made an excuse without me asking anything. Over explaining herself again!
> 
> *Even I don't get right evidence tomorrow I am going to confront her as I cant do this much longer!!*
> 
> Paul


PLease, don't . DON'T.

Try your best, fake a travel, get away if necessary, sit in your handsbite your tongue... whatever. .

Get your evidence, all of it, the full extent of her double life. Use the tools at hand.


Confronting now is going to get you screwed up.


----------



## walkonmars

Acabado said:


> Confronting now is going to get you screwed up.


 QFT

You'll wind up apologizing to her while she scampers underground. Be calm... go into James Bond mode in her presence. Cool, calm, collected, with presence of mind.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

:iagree:

I couldn't agree more with the above posters. 

Please don't confront to early.

She will whitewash and gaslight _anything_ you say, until you won't know which way is up or down.


----------



## Paul170337

I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

Paul170337 said:


> I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!


Are you able to leave work if your friend finds her with another man? You can show up and confront then, but do it calmly.


----------



## Thound

Paul170337 said:


> I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!


Im not trying to be a d1ck, but you dont know anything yet. You and us have a pretty good idea. Listen to what we are saying. If you confront without facts, you will never get the full story. Stay patient and be vigil. Act normal until you get the facts and you are ready to act.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Paul170337

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Are you able to leave work if your friend finds her with another man? You can show up and confront then, but do it calmly.


Yes, but I am about 40mins from home.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Paul170337 said:


> I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!


If you can't do it you can't do it, nothing to be ashamed of. I would suggest you hold off long enough to see a lawyer first, get divorce papers drawn up, then confront. 

It's not like you need to prove it in court, proof is only for your own peace of mind and if you are secure in the knowledge that she's cheating on you you don't need more proof.

If you have any doubt that she's cheating though you better nut up and investigate.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Paul170337 said:


> Even I don't get right evidence tomorrow I am going to confront her as I cant do this much longer!!
> 
> Paul


NO!

Many people in such situations confronted early and got prolonged suffering situation as result.

Wait, wait, and wait again. You will not believe the difference it makes if you have a complete understanding of the situation. Then take action to confront.


----------



## anchorwatch

Do you intend to catch her red handed today? Then stop at the store and have a VAR running, in your pocket, during the confrontation.


----------



## doubletrouble

Paul170337 said:


> I think lifeistooshort quote is most relevant to me and makes me think. If I confront her about her phone and facebook she will play the trust card. She will say I don't trust her etc etc. I agree everyone needs a little *privacy *in there lives. If I am wrong and confront her it would blow things up. I guess best thing to do is play dumb, play along and try and find evidence without going crazy! I keep thinking that I am just paranoid and going over the top. Kids are very demanding and she just might need time and space to recoup????


Privacy is fine. Secrecy is quite another thing.


----------



## doubletrouble

Paul, I know this is driving you NUTS. But please follow this advice you're getting, especially about not confronting too soon. Don't play your hand before you know what's in it. And never reveal your source to your wife. Don't tell her about TAM, don't tell her about a VAR or a GPS. 

When or if you do get evidence that she's cheating, use all the mental discipline you can possibly muster to confront her in a calm, peaceful way. Your bets bet would be to have divorce papers drawn up and ready for the end of the conversation. This will show her you are serious about the situation, and not give her any wiggle room. She's already wiggled enough (if you find evidence, that is).


----------



## x598

Paul170337 said:


> I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!


if you want to know who the guy is, I bet you probably already know who he is or know of him.

take a moment to calmly think about her circle of friends or co-workers. its almost always someone the cheater has been exposed to in one of these cases. its rarely the mailman or some stranger who she met by chance.

has she ever made mention of some guy that she had interaction with, maybe even innocently in the beginning, or struck up a friendship with a different group of friends? think about who is in this group. coworkers and bosses (but I think your wife is a SAHM) are a huge source also.

know also, that her phone is your best source of intelegence. log into your service provider and download the bill. it will have all the number she calls and texts. you will see hundreds if not thousands of activity to one number. that is your smoking gun and gives you the ability to find out who own that number.


----------



## In The Dark

Paul,
Please don't confront early. Take it from someone who did. I confronted with no hard evidence but with red flags and suspicions. She was able to lie and twist it around until I thought I was wrong to accuse her. I had no evidence. Cheaters will not admit until it is undeniable. And even then, they will trickle truth you.

I strongly suggest the VAR and do your best to play dumb husband. Please listen to the advice here.


----------



## ladybird

I will go to the store to pick up something and be gone an hour. Im a stay at home mom and I dont get anytime to my self, so I look around while im out when my kids are at home. Maybe thats why she takes a long time savoring being out of the house alone!


----------



## Cubby

ladybird said:


> I will go to the store to pick up something and be gone an hour. Im a stay at home mom and I dont get anytime to my self, so I look around while im out when my kids are at home. Maybe thats why she takes a long time savoring being out of the house alone!


It's not just her taking too long for errands that's arousing his suspicions, it's that plus all the other things he described. The GNOs, the weight loss, the sex life suffering, the constant phone use, locked Facebook, etc. All of it taken together starts to paint a picture, don't you think?


----------



## itom72

ladybird said:


> I will go to the store to pick up something and be gone an hour. Im a stay at home mom and I dont get anytime to my self, so I look around while im out when my kids are at home. Maybe thats why she takes a long time savoring being out of the house alone!


Did you read this post from the OP?



> I don't think I need evidence after tonight. she rang me on the way home to see how far away I was. Normally asked me to get bread but indicated she wanted to get it herself. Before she left she spent 5 minutes in bathroom doing herself up but said she was going to the toliet. Smelt perfume and hair spray in bathroom after she left. it took her 30mins for something that would normally take 10mins max. She came home and straight away made an excuse without me asking anything. Over explaining herself again!


Apparently those pimply-faced teenage baggers at the grocery store are worth getting dolled up for.


----------



## ladybird

I didnt finish reading the entire post. And i only read the first post, not his others. Geeze guys.

Im sorry to say, but all the signs you have decribed are signs of cheating.

99.9 percent of the time your gut is right.


----------



## BobSimmons

My friend take it from someone who's been there done that. Do not confront with any evidence! What are you going to say that she can't deny up and down and make you look crazy and stupid?

The reason people say do not confront is not because we want you to drag things out so we can have some macabre show, it's so you have irrefutable proof in your hands, something she can't talk her way out of. It sucks but play it smart. You have all the cards in your hands and even though you may not know what she's up to when she goes out, if you stay calm and use your head, you soon will know everything.

If you confront now, you risk driving everything underground which will make it much harder to get any evidence. Right know she can go out to the shop carefree thinking she's getting away with it. When you leave the house, she thinks she's free to talk freely and who knows whatever else.

So keep calm. Buy a couple of vars and put them around the house. If you have a computer put a keylogger on it. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere here about advice if you want to gather intel.

This maybe your only window of catching her with her guard down. 

Take advantage of this opportunity. Your marriage could depend on it.


----------



## sandc

Don't let your emotions get the best of you. Listen to these folks. Read some of the older CWI threads. You will find your story repeated countless times. You will find men saying, "I have to do this my way" countless times. You will find men saying, "I should have listened to you all, you were right"... countless times. This process works. Be smart, gather evidence (not feelings), get advice here, THEN confront when you KNOW what you're dealing with.


----------



## itom72

BobSimmons said:


> My friend take it from someone who's been there done that. Do not confront with any evidence! What are you going to say that she can't deny up and down and make you look crazy and stupid?
> 
> The reason people say do not confront is not because we want you to drag things out so we can have some macabre show, it's so you have irrefutable proof in your hands, something she can't talk her way out of. It sucks but play it smart. You have all the cards in your hands and even though you may not know what she's up to when she goes out, if you stay calm and use your head, you soon will know everything.
> 
> If you confront now, you risk driving everything underground which will make it much harder to get any evidence. Right know she can go out to the shop carefree thinking she's getting away with it. When you leave the house, she thinks she's free to talk freely and who knows whatever else.
> 
> So keep calm. Buy a couple of vars and put them around the house. If you have a computer put a keylogger on it. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere here about advice if you want to gather intel.
> 
> This maybe your only window of catching her with her guard down.
> 
> Take advantage of this opportunity. Your marriage could depend on it.


Sun Tzu said it best in The Art of War:

"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."


----------



## Thorburn

Paul,

1. Don't confront. Without evidence you will look like a da*n fool. 

2. Don't confront. Without evidence, she will lie, or convince you that you are just a paranoid arse.

3. Grab hold of your emotions. I have seen some folks here do what you are about ready to do and that is confront too early because they can't get their emotions under control. 

4. You feel like you are going nuts. I have been there, don't confront without hard evidence.


----------



## OnTheRocks

+1 PLEASE do not confront now. You need solid evidence, and confrontations will just make evidence that much harder to get. Meanwhile, she can be building her "Paul is paranoid, jealous, and doesn't trust me" case with family and friends, so when you do have actual proof they're less likely to believe it. 

Play dumb. Don't show your hand any more than you already have until you've got undeniable proof, legal counsel, and are ready to strike.


----------



## The Middleman

Paul170337 said:


> I can't sit there knowing she is in the arms of another guy. I feel so degraded knowing what she is doing and not sticking up for myself. I know what's going on if she cant tell the truth I will just walk out. she will lose me forever and in the end of the day if that's what she wants well she can have it!!



As the others have said, confronting without some level of evidence is not a good idea .... however, your determination about not accepting her (alleged) humiliation of you is admirable. Maintain that determination. If in fact she has slept with another guy you shouldn't accept her bullsh1t stories and you shouldn't take her back. You are standing up for yourself now, which is a good thing. Taking back a cheating spouse is not.


----------



## anchorwatch

It must be around 4 in the morning in Melbourn, hopefully he'll read the posts and adjust his plan, before anything happens during the day. 

Maybe he could take the day off and stay close to home...


----------



## weightlifter

Dude feign illness.

People that confront on weak evidence FAIL and make it take ten times as long. You are in Australia which already is one of the worst for divorcing men.

One early confronter turned what should have taken a week into SIX weeks of utter torture.

DONT DO IT.

You are not our first.


----------



## AMRAP

Paul

If you can get her Apple Id # you can join the web site Teensafe. You will get all her texts, deleted texts, phone log, phone book and more. You don't even have to touch her phone! You can even access her Facebook. Do you both share an ITunes account? If so her ITunes password is probably her Apple Id#.


----------



## Tony55

Paul170337 said:


> I am wondering if my wife is seeing someone else.
> 
> 
> My wife is wanting to *go out more and more* with her friends over last 12 months.
> She *lost a bit of weight* about 6 months ago and feels good about herself which is great.
> She is more confident and *seems happier* which again is great.
> she said she needed *time away* from our 2 year old.
> forgot to buy eggs for the kids at Easter. Something that should take 30 minutes took about 80 mins?
> She never lets me *see her phone*
> facebook account where some of her* new friends* I don't even know?
> She is *always on her phone*!
> 
> I need advice on whether she could be cheating or the signs of cheating. Need your help!
> 
> Paul


Here's what you do. Watch the expression on her face while she's reading or typing texts. Smiling? If so, she's in la-la land, and you're in trouble. (You'll be able to tell the difference between happy smile and la-la smile, trust me.)

T


----------



## waylan

Do not confront. Use the time to conduct your investigation. If you confront - she will deny and then cover her tracks. Play dumb brother.... Once you have the goods then attack.


----------



## Chaparral

Is this going to be another, "well you guys were right, I screwed everything up."?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> Is this going to be another, "well you guys were right, I screwed everything up."?


I hope not, there's so many of those already.


----------



## Graywolf2

Nucking Futs said:


> It's not like you need to prove it in court, proof is only for your own peace of mind and if you are secure in the knowledge that she's cheating on you don't need more proof.


I agree with the above. I also agree that there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that she is meeting someone. It’s certainly enough for me but she will deny everything and make you sound crazy. 

Is it enough proof for your friends and family? Picture yourself telling them that you are getting a divorce and breaking up your family with the evidence you have now. She and your kids will be seen as the victims of your irrational jealously.

Even if your wife wants a divorce someday to be with the OM she will still be very motivated to never admit to the affair. No woman would want to be seen by family and friends as a who*e if she can avoid it. She will say that after the divorce she met the OM and they fell in love. Very clean.

You will know in your heart that she had an affair and spend you rest of your life with her never admitting it. That will drive you crazy.



Paul170337 said:


> Even I don't get right evidence tomorrow I am going to confront her as I cant do this much longer!!


Don’t do the above. I understand how difficult to watch your wife get ready to go meet another man, but you need to suck it up for a few days. If your friend gets nothing, please please get a GPS and a couple of VARs. In a week you will have everything you need.


----------



## hospitality

DO NOT blow your cover! If your friend sees her go to a bar and sit down with some guy you don't know squat! It could be someone she knows from the bar, it could be a friend's husband who go their early, it could be her lover or it could be a million things.

The only thing you should be concerned about right now is truly finding out what the true state of your marriage is. All the 007 talk is so that you find out exactly what the state of your marriage. I went 007 on my wife for months and found nothing. Partially because I gave my cover away early and that may have spooked her to end something that was just starting or getting boring or she just wasn't having an affair. 

Regardless, I put a gps in the car, var in the house and var in the car. I sat back on girls night outs and watched exactly where she went on my PC. Something I think a five year old kid could figure out. VAR are so simple to operate 90 year lawyers toss them on the table before depositions and then push "play" to hear what was recorded. There is nothing technical about it.


Save your marriage by actually putting in the time to actually find out what is and isn't going on.

BTW, I also put on a nice shirt and style my hair before going to the supermarket because Lyndsey the sexy check out girl who works there flirts with me every time I go there. I have zero desire to pursue anything with this girl! You need gather the facts over a large sample size like I did and assume the best not the worst!!!


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## intuitionoramiwrong

Any update on this?


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## weightlifter

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Any update on this?


Give the guy time. His life is falling apart. Jeez.

OP I know its rough but we have done this...

TOO many times.


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## intuitionoramiwrong

weightlifter said:


> Give the guy time. His life is falling apart. Jeez.
> 
> OP I know its rough but we have done this...
> 
> TOO many times.


Just checking in on him, that's all.


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## Chaparral

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Just checking in on him, that's all.


Weightlifter never shows impatience:rofl:! 

Everyone hopes he can get control of the situation and things work out.


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## Paul170337

AMRAP said:


> Paul
> 
> If you can get her Apple Id # you can join the web site Teensafe. You will get all her texts, deleted texts, phone log, phone book and more. You don't even have to touch her phone! You can even access her Facebook. Do you both share an ITunes account? If so her ITunes password is probably her Apple Id#.


yes I have access to her apple account. how do I access deleted sms? she has an Iphone


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## Paul170337

hi guys,

My planned work and found out she was seeing another guy but was an emotional affair. This hurts more than a physical affair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Paul170337

Nor sure what do, go with it all. I feel hurt, sick, confused, degraded, anger, hate, etc. One thing I do feel strongly is I love her and scared some bloke was going take her off me. It has highlighted the that our marriage was in trouble and I played a part in that!!!!!


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## CASE_Sensitive

Worst thing you could do right now is take blame for her having an affair. This is where you need to be strong, with a full plan, and force her to acknowledge the path she took. If you're weak now, it will hurt your chances of killing this affair.


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## PhillyGuy13

Hi Paul, what did you find out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paul170337

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Worst thing you could do right now is take blame for her having an affair. This is where you need to be strong, with a full plan, and force her to acknowledge the path she took. If you're weak now, it will hurt your chances of killing this affair.



The affair is over. I confident of that as he has deleted her of facebook, I spoke him and he understood and was good about it and didn't mean anything and wants us to work it out! she said she has feelings for him but wants me to work with her about getting our marriage back on track. Not sure if I do???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Paul170337

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Hi Paul, what did you find out?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I followed her as my mate pulled out at the last minute so I borrowed his car. I followed her to his place and confronted them there. 

They wont doing anything physical just chatting. I lost it completely. He told me nothing has happened and only friends. She took off and went home. I followed her home and after two days of talking she has omitted that nothing happened physically but she has been chatting to him a lot on facebook and sms. She said sent over 100 sms in 2 months. 

I believe no physical affair as she knows an emotional affair is worst and to me I don't care as the emotional affair is worst!!!!
She told me she has feelings for him and is attracted to him, but wants me and her to work things out. She told me she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me but said she wants us to see a counselling to find out why she was like this with him. 

I will admit our relationship isn't/wasn't great and that is partly my fault. 15 years together you take each other for granted. Someone comes along plays attention to her. He says she is attractive and he likes her. She is flatted and starts thinking about things. She is getting something I haven't given her a while. I understand this but still bloody hurts. Not sure which way I will go with all this?????????????????

Any advice?

Paul


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## Hicks

Advice....Yeah realize that everyth8ing she has told you and everythign he has told you is probably 100% false.


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## Paul170337

Hicks said:


> Advice....Yeah realize that everyth8ing she has told you and everythign he has told you is probably 100% false.


what do you mean? it cant be worst?


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## anchorwatch

Sorry to create doubt, but ask yourself? What would an adult woman, in lust, go to a man's home for? Was it the first time or has she been there before? 
This is what happens with early confrontation.


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## Paul170337

anchorwatch said:


> Sorry to create doubt, but ask yourself? What would an adult woman, in lust, go to a man's home for? Was it the first time or has she been there before?
> This is what happens with early confrontation.


she admitted that she went there hoping something would happen as first time there!!


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## OnTheRocks

What do you really think the odds are that you just so happened to catch her the first time they met in person? You are in the shock and denial phase. 100% chance she's in a full blown affair IMO.


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## Thound

polygraph. It works if she believes it works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

If true, that's good. You would have been lucky to catch this early on. 

Arrange counseling soon.

Download these books today. 

" Not Just Friends" by S Glass

"His Needs, Her Needs" by W Harley

They should be of great insight and direction.


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## BetrayedAgain7

Paul, you HAVE to know what you are dealing with here. If you don't and you stay together it will eat away at your relationship and destroy it eventually anyway. 

You still need to dig and not just trust what they are saying, although you made it so much harder and more stressful for yourself by confronting too early.

Because of the early confrontation he could have just deleted her off Facebook to make it appear that it's over and now the relationship has just gone underground.

What she tells you is just words. Meaningless drivel coming out of a foggy mouth, that's all that is.

Don't believe anything that she says, its just whitewashing fog, and she will have you believing it in no time, because that is WHAT YOU WANT to believe. 

I know, because I've been there so many times I could write a book about it.

Only believe her actions and set up extraordinary precautions to ensure that they are still not in contact with each other.

If she's not willing to do this, then you know exactly where and with whom she is laying her butt.

You owe it to your kids.

Oh and by the way, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Yeah, you caught them in time. That's the ticket.

Good luck.


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## Hicks

Paul170337 said:


> what do you mean? it cant be worst?


I mean what I said. Everything he or she tells you is a lie.

Just emtional - lie
It's all over - lie
She wants to work on marriage - lie
He's a good guy and wants the best for you - lie

Wait for her to show you what is true, not tell you what is true.

This is not a quick fix.


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## Hicks

You're relying on the words of 2 cheaters... And you think whatever they are telling you is true. Do you see the problem with that? You have to verify everything yourself, not rely on words of cheaters.


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## tom67

Hicks said:


> You're relying on the words of 2 cheaters... And you think whatever they are telling you is true. Do you see the problem with that? You have to verify everything yourself, not rely on words of cheaters.


Keep a var in her car for at least another 2 weeks.


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## mahike

I am sorry Paul chances are high that they have slept together. Is he married, GF? Yes expose the A.

If she tells you they just kissed then they had sex. I would demand the polygraph as well. Tell her to hand over the phone, passwords to accounts and the bill. The bill will tell you how long this has been going on.

Also remember she has lied to you to see him and talk with him and ect.... She is liar. Do not take any blame about driving her to another man. That is BS. You can own problems in the marriage but not her lying or cheating.

Go through the phone and check out the pics. I really doubt if it is over once they were away from you they checked back in. I am sure you can find his number on her phone after you caught them.


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## PhillyGuy13

Wayward spouses only admit to what they have been caught doing. You caught her at his house. 

But they were just chatting over tea, but they have NEVER kissed.

If you had caught them kissing, it would have been the first time, but they wouldn't have ever done anything else.

If you had caught them in bed, she would admit to sex, but they have NEVER Done anal... Etc etc etc.

She admits to only what she knows you know about.

Just ask yourself what are the odds that your followed her, after all these weeks of suspicion, that the one night you finally decide to follow her is the FIRST night she goes over his place?


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## CASE_Sensitive

Paul170337 said:


> The affair is over. I confident of that as he has deleted her of facebook, I spoke him and he understood and was good about it and didn't mean anything and wants us to work it out! she said she has feelings for him but wants me to work with her about getting our marriage back on track. Not sure if I do???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


I cannot believe how people believe a facebook deletion is in anyway meaningful or a guarantee.

You better get an exact timeline from her, and even possibly him.


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## tom67

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Wayward spouses only admit to what they have been caught doing. You caught her at his house.
> 
> But they were just chatting over tea, but they have NEVER kissed.
> 
> If you had caught them kissing, it would have been the first time, but they wouldn't have ever done anything else.
> 
> If you had caught them in bed, she would admit to sex, but they have NEVER Done anal... Etc etc etc.
> 
> She admits to only what she knows you know about.
> 
> Just ask yourself what are the odds that your followed her, after all these weeks of suspicion, that the one night you finally decide to follow her is the FIRST night she goes over his place?


Yeah I was born at night...
Just not last night


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## convert

tom67 said:


> Keep a var in her car for at least another 2 weeks.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


might even keep it there longer


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## bandit.45

He caught them as they were getting ready to do the deed, and then believes her when she tells him nothing was happening. 

Oh boy. Some guys just won't let themselves see the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> He caught them as they were getting ready to do the deed, and then believes her when she tells him nothing was happening.
> 
> Oh boy. Some guys just won't let themselves see the truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Give him a little time.


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## MyTurn

Paul,
be very careful about what she says.They will take it underground.Your best shot is to expose the A to her/your parents,
even to your bestfriends ,so they can keep an eye on her.

Ask her to give a timeline of the A on paper.Talk to a lawyer and print D papers.

Then tell her she has two options:
1. she is fully transparent ,gives up all her passwords and agrees to GPS tracker on her phone.

If he calls,texts or emails her, she is not to respond and to tell you asap.

She must be willing to answer all your questions about the A truthfuly and honest.

She must be willing to do all the work that's needed to repair the damage that her A has caused to you and the M.

She must be 100% cimmitted to the M.

She must set up IC for her and MC for both of you.

If she is not willing to do all the above ,then choice number:

2.DIVORCE.

The choice is hers.


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## Graywolf2

Paul170337 said:


> she has omitted that nothing happened physically but she has been chatting to him a lot on facebook and sms. She said sent over 100 sms in 2 months.


She has been getting all dolled up to chat in person with a guy she’s already chatting with on facebook and sms?



Paul170337 said:


> I followed her as my mate pulled out at the last minute so I borrowed his car. I followed her to his place and confronted them there. They wont doing anything physical just chatting.


How long did you wait outside before you confronted? Do you expect people that are having an affair to take their clothes off before they say hello? 



Paul170337 said:


> she admitted that she went there hoping something would happen as first time there!!


The reason you were originally suspicious is that she has been getting all dolled up to run errands and taking too long doing the errands. 

So what you are saying is that she could chat with this guy as much as she wanted online. In spite of that she felt compelled to get all fixed up and lie to you so she could meet with him at a coffee shop so they could just chat some more. 

Then the first time you followed her it was to his place instead of a public place. She was going there to touch the OM for the first time ever. They might have even planned to kiss.

Do I have it about right?


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## Catherine602

You asked the OM? He doesn't care about you or your WW. He wants to avoid confrontation. Do you think a dishonest deceptive man will be honest when there is nothing in it for him. 

there is a big chance that it was physical. you don't get dressed and perfumed to talk. it will probably go underground now. Don't be fooled by them.


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## weightlifter

Uh OP.

At his house... Any half sensible man has the brains to ask his screw how she is and chat her up. If they have the time that is his mental foreplay.


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## cool12

i know you're getting hit with a lot here but please, think about this your wife is telling you she's been chatting with this guy she's attracted to, he lives fairly close, she's been going out more, but this is the first time they've gotten together? seriously? you're buying that?


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## AMRAP

Paul170337 said:


> yes I have access to her apple account. how do I access deleted sms? she has an Iphone


Paul:

Go to the web site teensafe.com. Sign up for like $15 per month. Every time your wife charges her phone at night everything gets backed up, EVEN DELETED TEXTS. You just log onto the web site and update every day or week and you will get all the activity since the last time she charged her phone. However, you will not get texts if she is using an App. You can also get access to her Facebook and see all activity including private messages.

If you do this now you should be able to see all her texts with this guy.


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## Cubby

Paul, some TAM cliches to keep in mind:

1. A cheater almost always suddenly turns into an Academy Award-winning actor when confronted.

2. Cheaters lie and liars cheat.

Both true statements.

My advice would be to keep the VARs in place. Act like you believe she's sorry. This isn't over. She's addicted to this guy, and like a drug addict, she's not going to shake him that easily.

And stop blaming yourself. I know, one of your first reactions is to think, "what have I done wrong?" But this is all on her. I'm not saying you can't improve your marriage, but you didn't cheat, she did.

And make sure you don't cry or beg in front of her. It's pathetic and unattractive. Be strong and cool and confident.


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## CASE_Sensitive

check her dresser.
see if there is any new lingerie that you've never seen.


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## walkonmars

Paul it's prudent to be skeptical now. For the time being play-along with her story. Seem grateful that she's returned to you. Don't act suspicious but do ask for some details for the purposes of "closure". 

BUT keep your eyes open and a VAR in her car - and at home. It's very unlikely that it's over. It may be on hold for a few weeks or a month. But unless you're the exception this affair was physical. 

BUT if it was both physical and emotional - it definitely isn't over unless your wife is psycho. Think about it.... if your wife has emotional feelings for this guy - a new guy - do you honestly think she can just turn off those emotions with a snap of a finger. Not likely. 

Don't be a chump. You're being hoodwinked.

Oh, demand an STD test immediately for her - get one for yourself too. Don't jeopardize your health based on the words of two cheaters.


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## hospitality

If anyone going through the same thing as Paul do the exact opposite. A married woman goes to a man's house for one thing an d one thing only. 

Keep the VAR in the house and car. Put GPS on her car and don't tell here. Sit back and relax.

One way many people have gotten the truth after they confronted with nothing is to ask a series of questions. Write the answers down. Then tell your wife you are going to call OM and they better be 100% the same as the OM or you are done.


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## CASE_Sensitive

That or demand a polygraph. If she wants to save the marriage, she should be more than eager to demonstrate proof it was EA only. 

Is the POSOM someone known to you? How far away is his home from yours? How easy is it for them to still meet?


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## RWB

Anybody's "Spidey" Senses tingling on this one? 

Grammar,
Keeping us in Suspense?,
The what's next suspense?.
Total rejection of the Obvious...


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## OnTheRocks

It has the fast timeline, too.


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## Forest

Paul170337 said:


> she admitted that she went there hoping something would happen as first time there!!


She says it was the first time, yet you've been suspicious for awhile.

Probability would suggest that it took you a ways into the affair to even get suspicious. If she is offering up "I was hoping, but it didn't happen" she already has guilt, and is trying to direct you down the least destructive path.

Saying that very likely means she's guilty of much more, and is willing to cop to a lessor plea.


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## nuclearnightmare

OnTheRocks said:


> It has the fast timeline, too.


:iagree:
i.e. the peak drama occurs only a few days after the poster starts up. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point though.


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## Catherine602

How tall are you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> i.e. the peak drama occurs only a few days after the poster starts up. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point though.


As a relative newbie, this stuff surprises me to no end. I guess in time you pick up on things. I just can't imagine someone talking about an issue like this publicly unless it is something that is truly driving them nuts.

I'll stay on believing things are truthful, I guess. As a man, I've never even imagined something so awful to go thru.


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## nuclearnightmare

Paul:
What she has done is the equivalent of spitting in your face. Based on what you know right now she DOES NOT deserve the benefit of any doubt! You have every right to assume the worst at this point. i.e. that she is both a liar and a wh0re. Bestow both titles on her and challenge her to take a polygraph to demonstrate that she is not. and start looking into the practical implications of divorce right away. If she refuses the polygraph or fails it, be prepared to kick her out of your house. (you should kick her out of your bed immediately BTW) 

You have every right to be pissed off and to stay pissed IMO. So yes I think this is what you should do - but my essential point is that she surely deserves no better treatment than this, no more respect than this. Treat her as she has treated you, and if she even hints at any of this being your fault, then you should become even more pissed off.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Paul170337 said:


> I followed her as my mate pulled out at the last minute so I borrowed his car. I followed her to his place and confronted them there.
> 
> They wont doing anything physical just chatting. I lost it completely. He told me nothing has happened and only friends. She took off and went home. I followed her home and after two days of talking she has omitted that nothing happened physically but she has been chatting to him a lot on facebook and sms. She said sent over 100 sms in 2 months.
> 
> I believe no physical affair as she knows an emotional affair is worst and to me I don't care as the emotional affair is worst!!!!
> She told me she has feelings for him and is attracted to him, but wants me and her to work things out. She told me she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me but said she wants us to see a counselling to find out why she was like this with him.
> 
> I will admit our relationship isn't/wasn't great and that is partly my fault. 15 years together you take each other for granted. Someone comes along plays attention to her. He says she is attractive and he likes her. She is flatted and starts thinking about things. She is getting something I haven't given her a while. I understand this but still bloody hurts. Not sure which way I will go with all this?????????????????
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Paul


Yes, get your head out of your *ss.

You do not listen, act impulsively, cannot thing logical.

Trust the people that gave you advice, accept you are not very bright, but that you can be if you take your time to learn from them.


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## BobSimmons

Get the feeling this might be another Steve K type thread..


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## TheFlood117

Wow, yeah just a few things-

-She is being coached and/or has done this before, and your just now catching on. 

-The Affair is going underground. My advice you do everything that Weightlifter said, and act like everything just peachy and normal and you totally believe her. Get Keyloggers, Specter pro is the best. 

- How good looking are you? Be honest, do women hit on you? Are you in good shape, built well and so on? Start hard 180, hit the gym and get female attention-don't have an affair yourself but it's okay to flirt, just my opinion tho. Don't tell your wife you lover her. Don't do things for her, just treat her with an indifferent professionalism. If you want, you can bang her out a bit- I would, but again, that's just me. Many here will tell you to wait until you get screened- STD test, to even have any physical intimate contact. That's good advice. 

-Get really close to your child, learn all the ins and out of being a parent of a young child, you may have to solo parent in the near future. Plus, for me personally, my son was the only thing that kept me from royally fvking up wife's world, "handling" POSOM and probably going to prison. So.... Yeah, getting very close to your kid is a good thing. 

-Find a hobby, something that you like to do, it could be music, painting, writing in a journal, playing pick up hoops, whatever just find a hobby just for you-Hitting the gym does not count. 

-Seek legal advice about your options for Divorce. And if you choose to divorce, ALWAYS BE THE FIRST TO FILE. 

-DO. NOT. EVER.CRY. IN. FRONT. OF. YOUR.WIFE. Women perceive this, even if it's just subconsciously, as weakness of a man who cries. It took a ton of acting and inner strength to not cry in front of my ex, but I never did. If you need to cry-and you probably do, it's alright. Do it alone, I wept in my living room after I kicked my wife to the curb, literally like a 20 or so minute weeping. But never do it in front of her. 

Good luck. Keep posting. And I'm very sorry this has happened to you. 

Welcome to the suck. But..... It will make you a stronger person. Trust me.


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## happyman64

Paul

Yes. Do go to counseling with your wife.

But do not go easy on her.

Her actions do have consequences.

And expect more truth to come out.

Trust your gut. And take some time for your emotions to settle down before you make any long term decisions.

HM


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## doubletrouble

Paul170337 said:


> I followed her as my mate pulled out at the last minute so I borrowed his car.* I followed her to his place *and confronted them there.
> 
> They wont doing anything physical just chatting. I lost it completely. He told me nothing has happened and only friends. She took off and went home. I followed her home and after two days of talking she has omitted that nothing happened physically but she has been chatting to him a lot on facebook and sms. She said sent over 100 sms in 2 months.
> 
> I believe no physical affair as she knows an emotional affair is worst and to me I don't care as the emotional affair is worst!!!!
> She told me she has feelings for him and is attracted to him, but wants me and her to work things out. She told me she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me but said she wants us to see a counselling to find out why she was like this with him.
> 
> I will admit our relationship isn't/wasn't great and that is partly my fault. 15 years together you take each other for granted. Someone comes along plays attention to her. He says she is attractive and he likes her. She is flatted and starts thinking about things. She is getting something I haven't given her a while. I understand this but still bloody hurts. Not sure which way I will go with all this?????????????????
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Paul


She went to his place? 

It wasn't only emotional, Paul. 

Hell, my fWW met OM in the parking lot of "their" restaurant and they found a place to screw.


----------



## doubletrouble

I guess OP is re-prioritizing at the moment.


----------



## lordmayhem

doubletrouble said:


> She went to his place?
> 
> It wasn't only emotional, Paul.
> 
> Hell, my fWW met OM in the parking lot of "their" restaurant and they found a place to screw.


Maybe she went there to play checkers or play video games or something.


----------



## CH

lordmayhem said:


> Maybe she went there to play checkers or play video games or something.


2 person twister, it's only a game.....

Hand on blue, foot on yellow, oops, how did that end up there....

Believe nothing, watch her actions and stick to her like glue.


----------



## badmemory

Paul, if you're still there, I'll put my two cents in.

Is it possible this was only an EA? Yes. But based on everything that you've described, that is extremely unlikely. Probably about 95% that it was a PA. You have every right to assume it was and to react accordingly.

You can not believe a word she says. If she's gone to these lengths to deceive you up until now, there's absolutely no reason that she wouldn't continue to do so if she thought it would reduce her consequences.

I've been there and so has most everyone else on this board.

Exhaust all your options for recovering her deleted text messages and e-mails first. If you can't find the smoking gun, give her a choice. Full confession of the PA or a polygraph. Without one or the other, you implement the 180 and start the divorce process. 

And if she does confess, understand you still won't get all the truth. But perhaps enough to confirm the PA; so that you'll have a better idea of what you're up against.


----------

