# separation and Trial separation when R is the goal



## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

So I had an individual session with the MC yesterday. She has said it before but things it would be a good idea for us to separate for a bit. She feels that most of the responses we have to each other are "emotionally charged" b/c we are always around one another, that it is harder for me to deal with my anger over the affair. She also has said that if I go, it may help show my WW that there is a loss or potential loss which may motivate her even more. 

I have been reluctant to do it as I don't know anyone who has done a trial separation and ended up back together. The MC countered with asking "how many people stay married after an affair like this?" So I haven't said anything to my WW yet. I am as confident as I can be that she is NC with the AP and has been. I have no desire to start a new relationship. I am just wondering if time apart would be good.

What is everyone's experience with this? 

To give background, married almost 10 years, wife had an almost 7 month PA after having a separate EA 4 months earlier. We have a 7 year old. We are in MC and IC (she just started IC this week -finally). I am 3 months post D-day as it seems to be written. 

I am thinking this could be a good thing, just wondering what others have experienced with it. My thought would be to start this coming weekend and to be 'not sleeping here' the month of February to start. I would come by see my kid, my dogs, interact but definitely not "live here." Thanks


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

One stat I have come across is that 80 %of separations end in divorce. I'm guessing that if you separate because of infidelity its much worse. Have you googled it?

It sounds like your big problem is containing your anger is that correct? What have you done to bring that under control?

How would you trust her if you weren't around?


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I question the skill and training of the MC. She doesn't sound like a marriage friendly therapist because a separation is "easy" for her while working with a couple that is high-conflict is tough. There is a National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists who subscribe to a Values Statement that I don't think she buys into:

_Values Statement of Marriage Friendly Therapists

The Registry seeks therapists who see themselves as supporting couples' original commitment to their marriage unless there is a compelling reason not to. A requirement for the Registry is that the therapist agrees in principle with the following statement about marriage and the practice of therapy. Affirming this statement indicates agreement with its spirit and overall content; many therapists would use different wording or emphasize certain points more than others. But since couples and referring professionals will be trusting that therapists on the Registry hold certain values about marriage and the practice of therapy, it is important that all registered therapists be on board with the value orientation of the Registry.

A. I know that healthy, lifelong marriage is good for individuals, families and communities, I affirm the unique value of marriage and the importance of life long commitment in marriage.

B. I believe that many and maybe even most marriages can be restored to health even when the spouses are unhappy, conflicted, or demoralized. My first stance is to explore how the couple might preserve their marriage and find a path to a better relationship.

C. Because as a marriage therapist I believe in fairness and equity in couple relationships, and I promote the needs and goals of both parties.

D. I understand that some marriages are toxic and dangerous, I do not promote marital commitment blindly but rather with respect for the safety and human dignity of both partners and their children.

E. I acknowledge my clients' ultimate responsibility and authority to make their own decisions about staying married or divorcing, I respect these decisions even if they differ from what I hope for them, and I acknowledge that spouses sometimes have incompatible goals for their marriage.

F. I know that there are many stakeholders in marriage, especially children but also extended family members and the broader community, I work to help couples see how the success or failure of their marriage affects others in their lives.

G. I understand the high stakes in working with troubled couples, I seek consultation when I feel stuck in therapy or when the couple is moving towards what may be a premature divorce.
_


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> One stat I have come across is that 80 %of separations end in divorce. I'm guessing that if you separate because of infidelity its much worse. Have you googled it?
> 
> It sounds like your big problem is containing your anger is that correct? What have you done to bring that under control?
> 
> How would you trust her if you weren't around?


I don't think trust would be different for me if I was there or not oddly. 

As far as Anger I have done many things, IC, anti-depressants, etc. My overall anger/frustration is much much better, just adding now knowledge of the affair and working through that, I am not sure.


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## Mike11 (Aug 25, 2011)

in my opinion and from seeing friends go trough that same thing 
Separation is the preparation for divorce plan not a "work on marriage" plan

Yes there can be a "she will miss you" element in separation but the more likely outcome would be "she will be used not to have you around" and this with the prospect of new relationships for her will be a very tempting course of action, don't forget she already tasted from the "forbidden fruit" and had new relationships while she was married to you, it will be 10 fold when she is alone with you away separated and her free to engage on what ever she wants 

Think carefully what you want from this, if you want to stay married to her than separation is a bad course of action given her moral compass 

if you are hesitant about remaining with her and leaning towards Divorce than separation will probably be better for you as it will be a slow detachment for you and ability to phase out from the relationship with less heartache for you and get the kids somewhat to adjust slowly to the new situation


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## NewYearNewMe (Jan 7, 2014)

AZman,
Here's my experience with a trial separation. Wife and I are currently in month 4 of 6. Wife took a job seven hours away. Plan was to remain married, act like married people and not date or see other people during this time. 

One week in she slept with a man. Then sexted two more. Then joined a dating site and slept with 5 others. She's currently exclusively seeing another guy but has already cheated and slept with another guy after that! Needless to say, the trial separation provided me with some clear answers. That my wife is a liar and serial cheater (she cheated in the marriage). 

If you proceed with a trial separation set up some very clear ground rules in writing. Work in conjuncture with a therapist. The separation period may bring to light just what kind of person your spouse is. It sure did with mine.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

NewYearNewMe said:


> AZman,
> Here's my experience with a trial separation. Wife and I are currently in month 4 of 6. Wife took a job seven hours away. Plan was to remain married, act like married people and not date or see other people during this time.
> 
> One week in she slept with a man. Then sexted two more. Then joined a dating site and slept with 5 others. She's currently exclusively seeing another guy but has already cheated and slept with another guy after that! Needless to say, the trial separation provided me with some clear answers. That my wife is a liar and serial cheater (she cheated in the marriage).
> ...


Wow, that is rough. I am sorry for you.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks for the responses thus far. Hopefully someone will chime in with a + one. I started this thread based on something I read in a different one. 

It is interesting perspective about the counselor stuff posted by hopefulgirl, my MC is definitely not traditional. She has brought up separation as a good thing in both individual sessions with my W and I as well as in couples sessions. We have been considering trying a new MC as we don't feel the sessions work very well so maybe that should be a huge sign. LOL

I have never considered separation before as I see the same thing, most that do it lead to the divorce or "legal separation" stage. I guess this last individual with the MC made me wonder if it would help give us time to think, breaks from one another while also giving us more opportunity to really value/maximize the times we are together. I don't know. My IC is great, I am seeing her tomorrow so hopefully she can give me some better perspective.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

It means it is not going well and is a last resort. In her opinion your WW is not over OM as you think. 

Your WW will use the separation as no longer cheating. 

Because you are looking at R at all cost, your WW has no need to change.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I think, at it's basic level, separation allows for men and women to give another person a chance to find out if someone else would be a better partner than their spouse.


*I know that with my skanky XW, a well-conceived, pre-planned "trial separation" was presented to me as an opportunity to work on our problems as well as our R, from afar, without living in the same abode together! Little did I know at that time that she was already entangled with two BF's from her long ago past, after hooking up with them both on FB
*



> I do not consider threats of violence or abuse when I state that. Those are different cases. So, don't think I'm against all separations. What I mean to say is, even in those cases, separation does allow for a spouse the option of finding someone else, while still married.


*Obviously, my XW already had other ideas in mind! And with other people, too!*



> In many cases of marital strife, the troubled spouse will talk to others for opinions. Emotions come to the forefront and there are those who feel horrible for the spouse who has been slighted or otherwise harmed. This allows for someone to offer help and feel poorly for the spouse. It's very easy to allow ones self to become involved in an affair in these circumstances.


*Try interviewing my XW. She should be insightful!*





> It's also, very easy to continue an affair and be protected by the marriage if something should go wrong with the AP. "I'm married. We can't take this too far. I need time." Those are just a few excuses to break up with an affair partner if needed. The separation removes guilt from many spouses. It is touted as a means to help the spouses sort through their thoughts. It will only be that way if the spouses are against any kind of sex outside the marriage and if they consider they are still married even though separated. Many, and I'd venture to say, most, who want to separate believe it's a free pass to date, without consequences.


*Totally! That was my XW's mindset!*



> There are no consequences if dating, while technically still married, but separated. It only provides a means to an end, when one needs to find a way out, and cannot while living with a spouse.
> 
> Like I said, there are those who will work on the marriage and avoid dating during separation, but I personally believe those folks are few and far between.


*You said a mouthful, Brother! Amen!*


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

AZman said:


> So I had an individual session with the MC yesterday. She has said it before but things it would be a good idea for us to separate for a bit.


Maybe the MC is trying to give you a hint.

I personally never have liked the idea. 

How do you learn to live together by living apart? 

It doesn't seem natural to me, especially with kids involved.

A better solution would be for both of you to learn some self control.

If you go, it may show your wife that she may lose you - really? Your wife really is not smart enough to realize that at this point? But if you leave, she'll finally "get it"? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Give you time to think? Think about what? Aren't you already apart from each other during working hours? How much "time to think" do you need? How much time apart will you really have if you're there seeing your 7-year-old all the time? Essentially, all you'll be doing is sleeping apart?

If you want to do it FOR YOU, then by all means, go ahead, but will it be good for the marriage? I don't think so.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I would work on your own issues that are getting in the way. Personally I do not think that the MC should be seeing either spouse individually. IC is great but not if it is the same person doing MC and seeing each spouse individually. I would avoid that at all cost in the future.

If your goal going into MC was never to separate then why are you considering it now. Because someone with a degree thinks it might be a good idea? Look if this was a doctor who said that you would be dead in two months and there is nothing you could do. Would you accept that our get another opinion asap and search for a Dr. willing to try something to save you? This is what you need to do for your marriage if it is important to you to save.

My point is what do you think is best for you and your spouse and Your marriage? That is what I would be looking at. The goal is not being met with this therapist but there may be one out there that is better suited to you and your wife. One able to help you help your selves.

you should find ways during the week for you to have individual time if you are together all the time and there is much fighting then you are just sitting in emotions and emotional reactions. Go out once a week for a few hours and do something for you. Encourage your spouse to do the same. Make a rule that there are times during the day that the affair is not allowed to be discussed. (we banned it at meals. We do not talk about it or related stuff during meals together) My point is that there is a whole lot of tools out there that your therapist could have offered up to you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I would counsel you to seek immediate separation...* from your "Cheater's Charter" MC!*

As has been pointed out, she's no friend of you, your wife or your marriage.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

AZman said:


> It is interesting perspective about the counselor stuff posted by hopefulgirl, my MC is definitely not traditional. She has brought up separation as a good thing in both individual sessions with my W and I as well as in couples sessions. We have been considering trying a new MC as we don't feel the sessions work very well so maybe that should be a huge sign. LOL


If you don't feel the sessions work very well, yes that is a HUGE sign. My husband (who has anger issues, and wasn't keen on starting MC - a man's man if there ever was one), and I both feel better after each and every session with our MC. And I still have a whole lot of pain to deal with (approaching the one year anniversary of D-Day), he still has issues of his own that get in the way, and we have much work to do on our marriage - this is a LONG process. And while we have made a lot of progress, it's hard and challenging and it takes a therapist who's highly skilled at working with couples like us. We have to learn HOW to de-escalate, HOW to talk about difficult things, but we have to spend time doing fun, "normal" things in between to make those discussions easier. 

Telling a reconciling couple to separate sounds like horrible advice, IMO. The marriage is actually a client too - you're a client, she's a client, and the marriage is the third client that's receiving "therapy." It needs TLC. For a marriage counselor to advise a marriage to go "on hold" (which is what would happen if you live apart) just sounds like she's in over her head and doesn't know how to help you two to de-escalate. It's like admitting to one of her clients - the marriage - "I don't know how to help you, it's too much for my skill set." Frankly, I don't see how separation and reconciliation could have anything to do with each other! Talk about mixed messages - are you two trying to move closer, or apart??

I highly recommend Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends and Linda MacDonald's How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. (I read the latter book, highlighted the parts I wanted my WS to read, and gave it to him.) You need a skilled MC, but an unskilled one may do more harm than good; these good books may really help you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think separation would be a good thing..Probably make both of you rethink about things you take for granted from one another. 

Have some ground rules though..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just exactly how enthusiastic is your wife about this separation thing?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Those require trust. If you have trust, why bother separating? Why are you having problems with the marriage?
> 
> I do believe it's good to state rules, but never believe they will uphold them, never.


She not only already broke the rules she has had no problem shattering them many times before. At this point she needs to be on a short leash. Is she still working with one of the OMs. After reading parts of your other threads, I am left cofused.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Lighter versions of NYNM are more common than a separation from a cheater helping R.

Tring to remember some names.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I kicked him out on D day and we're together now, does that count?  My story's here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/32264-hello.html#post434954


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

AZman said:


> I don't think trust would be different for me if I was there or not oddly.
> 
> As far as Anger I have done many things, IC, anti-depressants, etc. My overall anger/frustration is much much better, just adding now knowledge of the affair and working through that, I am not sure.


I'll use two idioms to make my point on why I am leery of separation.

"Out of sight, out of mind"
"When the cat is away, the mouse will play."


Unless your counselor is trying to say, in a nice way, "you guys are done" I can see why it looks bad. I'm not going to say the counselor is necessarily bad since this person has heard both sides of the story, we have only yours to go on.


No offense meant.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

OP's wife cheated, didn't she? Why doesn't she move out for the separation?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> OP's wife cheated, didn't she? Why doesn't she move out for the separation?


Entirely different subject IMO. He asked for thoughts about separation. Personally, I don't care who leaves, I still think it is a dangerous choice if you want to try reconciliation.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

Again appreciate the feedback. Yes my wife cheated I thought that was clear in the OP.

As far as her knowing about my thoughts. I wasn't really planning to bring it up until I got the idea straight in my head if it would work for me, if I was open to it, after I talked with my individual therapist etc. My W and I talked a little about it before and both agreed we don't know anyone that has ever had it work. Feel that it is kind of the death march. 

I do not believe she is in contact with any other guy on any level. 

To some other questions, no therapists cross roles. My IC is mine alone, she has her own and then we have a MC. 

The MC is the one we are not sure if we are happy it. After every session it is rough for us. Even if we had great days leading up to a MC session, it is crap afterwards for 2-3 days. We have never left MC in a better place on any level. I brought it up to the therapist and she said that is normal. I am not sure and plan to ask my IC tomorrow.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> This may or may not be the case with you. I know, when a counselor is challenging your most basic beliefs, many times, this will happen. It can be good or bad, depending on what beliefs are being challenged. Some beliefs are good and you don't want them to change. Others, it's great to change. "Growing pains."
> 
> I think it's good that you have separate counselors and you can challenge the thoughts of the marriage counselor with the IC. They will help you determine the above. What is right for you?


My IC (who has seen me at least twice as much as the MC) has already confirmed that some of the things the MC has said about me in particular are wrong and/or not applicable. This has reinforced my beliefs about my MC.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> OP's wife cheated, didn't she? Why doesn't she move out for the separation?


:iagree: Az, even if you think a separation might be a good thing, as you say, why not have your W move out? If the MC thinks a separation might show her what life would be like without you, let her see what life would be like without her familiar house, furniture, whatever as long as you're at it? Oh, and also what it would be like living apart from her child.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

If your IC says go then time to go. If you need one more opinion, ask your wife to pose the same question to her IC.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

Ive been married almost 30 yr. H cheated 27 yr. "Hell hath no fury like a women scorned," doesnt comes from nowhere. Rage,& anger were my first and middle name for almost 2 years. I couldn't even have a convo w h with becoming furious each time ,our life had become very toxic being together. 

I finally asked him to move out 5,6 months later, and wanted to separate. We did. With no boundaries. I just didn't care, I was mentally just not there... To be honest, the state I was in, I really question how he could have really left... 

Shy of two years, I hit rock bottom again, at the time h seemed to be adjusting to living on his own. Something made me out reach out for help ((again)) and this time, reluctantly, went on anti-depressants... as I became stronger & and the meds helped, I offered h to go to mc & ic, after almost 3 years of living apart. 

He has been very relentless throughout separation as he wants the marriage back. He wants me back, he wants his family back. He is at times very un-remorseful, and still doesn't "get it," in many ways, but it didn't, & doesnt make him give up, when I have given him much sh!t, ((though he deserves every bit of it.)) 

There is distance now between us, there is a lot of mistrust issue on my part, we lack an emotional connection, there is things about his "past life" I dont know about. But then again, we are just starting to reconnect after being apart from each other, we are in the early stages of mc, R, & repairing separation. 

He has worked on himself in a lot of ways that he didnt like within himself, & what I find weird, I'm not sure I like all of the new changes, or the "new h" as much, because I really had no issues w what we had, so that's where it's hard with my story. 

H, mc, ic, all feel we will get thur & thur the separation &back together, it's me that's not so hopeful. 

I feel like strangers in many ways too, I've been married to this man for almost 30!yrs, we were for the most part, best friends, but again, there is a lot of stress between us. If it weren't so, & two people wanted to get back they can & will. We also stayed in contact 24/7, so it also kept us at least talking. 

This is so far my experience, there's another thread called, "wife moved back in after3 years separated"... Maybe you'll get some answers from there too. 

Good luck, 

~sammy


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## manindespair (Jun 20, 2014)

NewYearNewMe said:


> AZman,
> Here's my experience with a trial separation. Wife and I are currently in month 4 of 6. Wife took a job seven hours away. Plan was to remain married, act like married people and not date or see other people during this time.
> 
> One week in she slept with a man. Then sexted two more. Then joined a dating site and slept with 5 others. She's currently exclusively seeing another guy but has already cheated and slept with another guy after that! Needless to say, the trial separation provided me with some clear answers. That my wife is a liar and serial cheater (she cheated in the marriage).
> ...


You know, I am just going into a trial sep where both of us have no boundaries on this "officially". Unofficially I hate it but I am testing my WW. If she cheats again, I am of the same thought that it shows what she is really like!


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

The OP separated based on a counselors recommendation, because on the emotionally charged environment. I view of his situation, I think that it was appropriate. However, if reconciliation is the goal, there has to be rules. If there are no rules then one or both of the parties are free to date other people. This rarely leads to reconciliation. I recommend the following.

Day 1-30 No contact except what is absolutely necessary for child care and exchange. Individual counseling for both parties can be helpful. No sex.

Day 31-60 Light dating and family days, there can be intimacy, but no sex. Recommend couples counseling.

Day 61-90 Continue dating with sleep overs and sex if both parties agree. At the end of this period, you then have to decide if enough progress has been make to reconcile, continue separation or termination of the relationship.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I do not have first hand experience with your proposed solution (separation. However, I think I would separate from your MC and not a temporary separation either.

Don't be afraid to fire a counselor that is not working for you guys. Sometimes that happens.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

manindespair said:


> You know, I am just going into a trial sep where both of us have no boundaries on this "officially". Unofficially I hate it but I am testing my WW. If she cheats again, I am of the same thought that it shows what she is really like!


I'd bet my next paycheck that she's cheating now. And I mean _right now_ -- _*right this very minute*_.

Aaaaanyway, the last reply to this thread prior to yours was over 6 months ago.


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