# What am I to make of this?



## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

This is a chat I pulled of my dh FB tonight and it has me a bit upset for several reasons: first- this is what he does to relax after work. Sits around and drink and chats up some chick he used to like from his old hometown instead of spending time with me and our kids. Second- he has ****ed someone from his FB friends and got really emotionally wrapped up in her.(it's more complicated than it sound, I'll explain at the end of this post) This was last year. Third- I had to tell a married chick he was involved with online that if she didn't quit, I would send transcripts of their chats to her dh. She defriended/blocked him and apologized to me.
When I told dh about it, and how she was aware that what was happening was inappropriate, he still denies that he is doing anything wrong and I'm just being paranoid and jealous and just don't want him to have female friends.
I don't know how to explain this to him in any other way. So I have come to you all for help.
The below convo is just a portion of the whole thread. Please tell me, am I really overreacting? Would anyone here be cool with the below exchange if it was their SO?


(dh)
Doing well. Work gives me more than I can get done in a day (or week) and the family is getting over the seasonal stomach flu that flies through every year at about this time.
I'm working an automated method of enumerating network segments without being detected so that I can satisfy a CTO at work. It's one of many things I do best.
...
8:03pm
(single woman)
Sorry you guys have the stomach bug. We're dealing with the same thing at my house.
enumerating network segments...Idk what that means exactly.
Is it a way of finding out info about the network? Or are you looking for some specific piece of info?
...
8:08pm
(dh)
I was tasked with plugging my laptop into a VLAN (an active port on a switch), doing a discovery scan of all active hosts, and determining which ports, protocols, and services are being used on each host. There are 65535 ports on each host and I have to figure out what protocols and services are being used on all active ports for each host. Does that make sense? I tend to speak in terms that make people's eyes roll make in their heads and then they go to sleep.
...
8:10pm
(single ladie)
Hehe...yes, that makes a tiny bit of sense. I find that crap kinda fascinating but I just can't always make sense out of it.
...
8:12pm
(dh)
I'm a geek.
I'm a hacker, but you have to be a geek first, so sorry.
Also sorry to hear that you are dealing with the same type of bug we have had wreaking havok on our family.
Best wishes and good health to you all.
...
8:13pm
(single ladie)
You're not a geek. Lol.
I hope you all have a speedy recovery
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8:19pm
(dh)
Geek or not, I love hacking computers, again.
Likewise. Thank you.
...
8:21pm
(single ladie)
So you've found a renewed love for your job? That's great news!
...
8:23pm
(dh)
Thanks. It just kind'a snuck up on me.
I happen to be good at it and I can do things that no one else in the MDA can do.
That's why I get tasks like the one I was describing. Because there isn't anyone else that can figure it out. I've already got it in the bag.
...
8:25pm
(single ladie)
That's awesome. It's a wonderful feeling knowing that you're the best at your job. That's how I felt about my job at Qwest.
...
8:26pm
(dh)
I bet you kicked ass at (her job)
You are an awesome chick; Brains and Beauty. What is there that you can't do?
...
8:27pm
(single lady)
Haha thanks
um...I can't seem to stay married for very long.
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8:29pm
(DH)
Do you really need to, though? Maybe you are better off without the "better half"...
So called 'better half', that is....
...
8:30pm
(single lady)
Idk, I go back and forth about it all the time. Being single definitely has its perks. I'm totally free to come and go as I choose. No drama to put up with. But it can get incredibly lonely.
...
8:32pm
(DH)
Maybe a **** buddy is what you need. Someone that can satisfy the urge to be with someone, but without the drama and deep seated feelings. Just wondering...
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8:34pm
(single lady)
Even that gets complicated though. It's hard to be intimate with someone and not eventually develop feelings for them.
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8:40pm
(DH)
Well, it does get tricky.
I have learned a lot about not getting emotionally tied to anyone.
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8:44pm
(single lady)
Usually harder for a girl too...lol
...
8:44pm
(DH)
Why?
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8:45pm
(single lady)
We tend to be more emotional. About almost everything.
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8:47pm
(DH)
So that's why I can't figure Chicks out!
Damn, but I try.
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8:47pm
(single lady)
at least you try
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8:48pm
(DH)
I try because I want to make them cum like they have never cum before.
(Did I just type that out loud?)
...
8:49pm
(single lady)
Lmao...yes, I'm pretty sure you did.
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8:56pm
(DH)
Sorry about that...
Just speaking my mind.
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8:57pm
(single lady)
No need to apologize. I like that we can be so candid with each other
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9:02pm
(DH)
Me, too.
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9:27pm
(single lady)
Sweet dreams my friend.
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9:47pm
(DH)
Good night and dream the dreams you imagine when you are awake.
...
November 27
1:16pm
(single lady)
How's work?
...
November 27
5:33pm
(DH)
Non-productive is how I would describe, today.
A lot of work, but nothing really accomplished.
I wasn't allowed to use some of the scripts that I created because no one really knows what they do. The code has to go through a code review before they will let me use them. So, I did things the hard way and got nowhere. Oh well, It's the government's money. I don't mind getting paid for non-productivity.
Overall, it was a good work day. Next, I have to go to the store on my way home.
How was your day?
...
November 27
8:42pm
(single lady)
My day is almost over. I've been playing nurse all day
...
9:23pm
(single lady)
My favorite place to work is the heart hosp. But tonight was a pretty cool experience too.
...
10:32pm
(single lady)
Finally home. Well, kinda. I'm at my mother's house. She kept the kids for me tonight so I could go to clinical. So I'm sitting out in her game room waiting for the heater to do its thing. xxx and xxx are asleep in the guest room. (single lady's kid)is asleep on the couch. There's not much room for me. Lol
...
10:33pm
(single lady)
I'd much rather be in my bed in my own house!
...
December 1
8:22pm
(single lady)
How's your weekend going?
...
December 2
7:51pm
(DH)
It's been rolling along.
Getting ready for christmas; cleaning, organizing, decorating, etc...
How is your weekend treating you?
...
Tuesday
11:48am
(single lady)
How's your day going?
...
Tuesday
4:21pm
(DH)
Like jumping head first into a raging river and being swept away.
How's your day?
...
6:00pm
(single lady)
Is that a good thing? Or bad.
I rocked my dosage Calc test. But bombed the Kaplan test.
So my day has been pretty ****ty.
...
6:38pm
(DH)
It's good in the sense that the day seems to fly by. It's just my way of explaining how it feels to show up at work.
Good job on your dosage calc test. Do you get to do the (work related)test, again?
Cheer up! A ****ty day can be cured be remembering just how gorgeous and ****ing awesome you truly are.
...
6:39pm
(single lady)
You're sweet
...
6:39pm
(DH)
I like the profile pic, by the way. You really do look gorgeous.
...
6:39pm
(single lady)
I'll have to do remediation for the Kaplan. It's not anything that goes on my transcript.
Thanks!
...
6:41pm
(my dh)
So, you do the rememdiation, kick ass at it next time, and move on.
You'll do just fine. You're smart and you know it, so relax.
Damn, I can't seem to spell, tonite....
...
8:08pm
(single lady)
Just finished my last clinical for this semester
...
Wednesday 
5:52pm
(single lady)
Whatcha up to this evening?

*Further explanation:
We've been together for 15 yrs. We have 4 kids.
The chic he nailed from FB, that's more complicated. We went thru a 'need to spice up our marriage' phase. He found someone for me, and then someone for himself. We each went off and did our thing. When I was done with mine, it was over. When he had done his thing it morphed into some sort of emotional thing with constant texts back and forth, pet names, etc. I confronted her and put a stop to that part, and he said that she 'sucked him in'.
He also ended up getting REALLY jealous of me and my piece, accusing me of doing stuff when I wasn't. He even set up recording equipment to try and 'catch' me. He still claims to this day that there is evidence of me doing stuff on the tape even though I didn't, and I can't hear anything when I listen to it.
I thought that we had gotten over that, but he keeps striking up these 'friendships' online. Whenever I confront him about it he gets mad at me and says @#$%& like: so I'm not allowed to have friends?! Or 'It's not like I'm going to DO anything, she lived in XXX!"
It doesn't seem to matter that I tell him that this @#$%& hurts me.

I have had some health problems that have caused me to put on a bit of weight. I try to take care of myself in every other way and he says he thinks I'm hot and he is still affectionate with me physically.
So, I hope that fleshes out the picture.
Thanx for taking the time to wade through my drama.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Ah, what a nice can of worms you've got going. That little bit at the end, that's your major problem. Who's idea was that? (Opening up your marriage)


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

There is just a tiny step from this to full blown PA.
Chats like this lead my wife to believe it's OK to cheat.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. And if he can't respect that, you need to tell him you are not compatible with each other and need to split. Otherwise... Slippery slope.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

You should not be posting her children's names on an open internet forum. My thoughts other than that... You reap what you sow. You told him it was ok to be with someone else, and now you're taking that away. You've already go en infidelity the stamp of approval. 
Is he having an affair, yes.blame****ing? Yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> You should not be posting her children's names on an open internet forum. My thoughts other than that... You reap what you sow. You told him it was ok to be with someone else, and now you're taking that away. You've already go en infidelity the stamp of approval.
> Is he having an affair, yes.blame****ing? Yes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry about that, I thought I had edited out all the names, but apparently I missed one. I'll go back and see if I can edit that out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> You should not be posting her children's names on an open internet forum. My thoughts other than that... You reap what you sow. You told him it was ok to be with someone else, and now you're taking that away. You've already go en infidelity the stamp of approval.
> Is he having an affair, yes.blame****ing? Yes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry about that, I thought I had edited out all the names, but apparently I missed one. I'll go back and see if I can edit that out.
Our little experiment was almost a year ago and I seeing as it caused problems, we had both agreed that we wouldn't be doing that again.
Unfortunately, he doesnt think he is doing anything wrong even though I told him it hurts me and sent him links about emotional affairs and explained why it's not cool with me.
When I asked a gf of mine about it, she said it sounds like I made a deal with the devil.
Now I just don't know where to go from here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> Ah, what a nice can of worms you've got going. That little bit at the end, that's your major problem. Who's idea was that? (Opening up your marriage)


It was mostly his. I didn't have any relationships with other men that I am close enough/familiar enough to hook up with, so he found a friend of his to boink me. He actually invited the guy to stay with us for a few weeks! All of this left me completely shocked when he turned all jealous suddenly and kicked the guy out.
I have only spoken/texted him a couple of times since to see if he made it home okay, and to wish him well. That's it. I never had feelings for the guy at all ( he was an incredibly lousy lay, and kind of a loser). I just feel so stupid and dirty for going along with it and can't understand what dh still holds against me about it when it was his ****Ing idea and he set it up!!! What did I do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A++ (May 21, 2012)

Lily_O said:


> It was mostly his. I didn't have any relationships with other men that I am close enough/familiar enough to hook up with, so he found a friend of his to boink me. He actually invited the guy to stay with us for a few weeks! All of this left me completely shocked when he turned all jealous suddenly and kicked the guy out.
> I have only spoken/texted him a couple of times since to see if he made it home okay, and to wish him well. That's it. I never had feelings for the guy at all ( he was an incredibly lousy lay, and kind of a loser). I just feel so stupid and dirty for going along with it and can't understand what dh still holds against me about it when it was his ****Ing idea and he set it up!!! *What did I do?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing, you are innocent as a newborn babe.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

A++ said:


> Nothing, you are innocent as a newborn babe.


Not saying that.
The facts: We thought swinging would be fun.
We both found out that we were too jealous to handle it.
We both cut of ties with the 'other'.
Agreements were made that we won't do that anymore.
Okay, do over, fresh slate.
So far so good.
A few months later dh starts getting too friendly with a female FB friend.
I object, saying 'Hey, I think that's breaking the rules! Please quit.'
Dh says he doesn't think that it's anything, that Im over reacting.
So I sent her a msg asking her to stop or I will send copies of the chats to her dh.
She appologized to be and delete/blocks my dh.
I tell dh about it saying that if what they were doing was innocent, why was she afraid her dh would find out?
At that point, I thought he understood. I sent him info on EA's thinking maybe he just needed a bit of education on what those were and why those bother me.
Then I happen to see this stuff .
I'm
Hurt that he continues to do this after I asked him to quit.
Not gonna say I'm inoccent. Just that since our mutual swinging episode I have been squeaky clean because I don't want to be a source of pain for the person I love. That's why all that stuff was a mistake. I don't understand why he persists in going to other women to get his emotional needs met, even when I have told him that it hurts me.
I don't want to divorce him. I just want him to stop this so we can go back to what we were before our stupid experiment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, that's the trouble. You can't go back in time, only forward while dealing with the situation at hand.

If you are uncomfortable with his chats, tell him and react on his actions. If he refuses to give it up, you need to enforce boundaries with consequences.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

So do I deserve this because I had agreed to the original episode?
Is he somehow justified? I didn't count the sex part as cheating (on either side) because the sex was part of the agreement.
When we were deciding to do this we had both agreed that the physical was fine, but that gettIng emotionally attached was not. I was surprised (foolishly so) that he ended up getting wrapped up emotionally with this other person.
I feel like what I'm hearing here is that I brought this on myself. Maybe I did. Doesn't make it hurt any less. The addition of bitter regret to this emotional sess pool may be making it worse. IDK.
He and I have been best friends for the majority of our marriage.
In 2008 we both left a very strict religion together and thought it would be fun to try some stuff we had fantisized about now that we no longer had the rules of that religion governing our lives. It was supposed to be something we did together and he used to confide in/compliment/support me.
Now he spends his time with these other 'friends'.
I really am stupid.
I haven't confronted him on the latest one b/c I now know it will end in a fight. I am just saving the convos till I figure out what to do.
I am also making an appointment with a therapist for me. I need some support in figuring out how to deal with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> This is a chat I pulled of my dh FB tonight and it has me a bit upset for several reasons: first- this is what he does to relax after work. Sits around and drink and chats up some chick he used to like from his old hometown instead of spending time with me and our kids. Second- he has ****ed someone from his FB friends and got really emotionally wrapped up in her.(it's more complicated than it sound, I'll explain at the end of this post) This was last year. Third- I had to tell a married chick he was involved with online that if she didn't quit, I would send transcripts of their chats to her dh. She defriended/blocked him and apologized to me.
> When I told dh about it, and how she was aware that what was happening was inappropriate, he still denies that he is doing anything wrong and I'm just being paranoid and jealous and just don't want him to have female friends.
> I don't know how to explain this to him in any other way. So I have come to you all for help.
> The below convo is just a portion of the whole thread. Please tell me, am I really overreacting? Would anyone here be cool with the below exchange if it was their SO?
> ...


 
I was gonna say GIRLLLLLL at 8:40 Hubby went straight for CONQUER.... until I read 

The chic he nailed from FB, that's more complicated. We went thru a 'need to spice up our marriage' phase. He found someone for me, and then someone for himself. We each went off and did our thing. When I was done with mine, it was over. When he had done his thing it morphed into some sort of emotional thing with constant texts back and forth, pet names, etc. I confronted her and put a stop to that part, and he said that she 'sucked him in'

My question is - Once you've violated your marriage vows and violated your bed/hotel bed/the bed you laid in while marriage to each other- - - How do you come back to just a normal monogamous marriage? Also, can his facebook conversation surprise you once those type of lines have been crossed where you can go pick yours and he can go pick his..... Sounds like he never stopped his behavior and his next conquest is Single lady that has some time to kill if she drop the kids off at her mama house.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So this is why swinging doesn't work. 

And you still haven't edited the names of her children out.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> This is a chat I pulled of my dh FB tonight and it has me a bit upset for several reasons: first- this is what he does to relax after work. Sits around and drink and chats up some chick he used to like from his old hometown instead of spending time with me and our kids. Second- he has ****ed someone from his FB friends and got really emotionally wrapped up in her.(it's more complicated than it sound, I'll explain at the end of this post) This was last year. Third- I had to tell a married chick he was involved with online that if she didn't quit, I would send transcripts of their chats to her dh. She defriended/blocked him and apologized to me.
> When I told dh about it, and how she was aware that what was happening was inappropriate, he still denies that he is doing anything wrong and I'm just being paranoid and jealous and just don't want him to have female friends.
> I don't know how to explain this to him in any other way. So I have come to you all for help.
> The below convo is just a portion of the whole thread. Please tell me, am I really overreacting? Would anyone here be cool with the below exchange if it was their SO?
> ...


 
He was not just jealous. He was trying to catch you because of the dirt he continued to do. So catching you doing the same dirt he was doing would justify why he could continue. Since he didnt find anything, he just continued to do his dirt anyway. Please prepare yourself if you find out he has been with a number of women sexually since then.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> So do I deserve this because I had agreed to the original episode?
> Is he somehow justified? I didn't count the sex part as cheating (on either side) because the sex was part of the agreement.
> When we were deciding to do this we had both agreed that the physical was fine, but that gettIng emotionally attached was not. I was surprised (foolishly so) that he ended up getting wrapped up emotionally with this other person.
> I feel like what I'm hearing here is that I brought this on myself. Maybe I did. Doesn't make it hurt any less. The addition of bitter regret to this emotional sess pool may be making it worse. IDK.
> ...


 
Lily HUN, when couples "spice it up" it doesnt have to be with other people. It is suppose to be with each other. Role play, buy a wig, be the lady that sneaks in the house and pleasures hubby before wife get home... type ROLE PLAY.. it doesnt have to be an actual person outside the home... so although what he is doing is not right... yes, HE may feel justified due to no relationship barriers- - because the main one was broken... how do you come back to normal after that.

But I'm sorry you are going through this. No one deserves to be hurt or blindsided or lied to as if the behavior was suppose to cease when u did but he didnt.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> So do I deserve this because I had agreed to the original episode?
> Is he somehow justified? I didn't count the sex part as cheating (on either side) because the sex was part of the agreement.
> When we were deciding to do this we had both agreed that the physical was fine, but that gettIng emotionally attached was not. I was surprised (foolishly so) that he ended up getting wrapped up emotionally with this other person.
> I feel like what I'm hearing here is that I brought this on myself. Maybe I did. Doesn't make it hurt any less. The addition of bitter regret to this emotional sess pool may be making it worse. IDK.
> ...


It's not that you deserve to be cheated on.

However your poor choices have created the situation where your husband now no longer views being faithful as something that includes not talking about sex with other women, and not even having sex with other women,

He is now operating under the idea that so long as he comes home at the end, and pays the bills, that its ok for him to cheat.

And yes, your going outside to have sex with a stranger did open that door because it completely devalued you to him. His letting you do that showed he didn't value you or your faithfulness sexually. The fact you were able to have sex with ths other guy also said loud and clear to your husband that he can be easily replaced in your bed without any emotional struggle on your part.

In essence the two of you showed one another that you aren't exclusively valued sexually as partners. And that is a key element of the marriage bond that makes the two of you different from any random set of men and women.

Like wise, you letting him have a sexual relationship with another woman showed him that you do not value him as much either.

So now you are living in a one sided open marriage.

And your husband doesn't value you enough as his partner to be with only you, because he now knows you will share him.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

2asdf2 said:


> I am not sure she violated any marriage vows.
> 
> I know my vows did not address sex in any way. Probably hers did not either.
> 
> ...


 
She said he found someone for her and then found someone for him and they both went off and did there own thing.....:scratchhead:
I know I read that somewhere but let me be sure... going off doing your own thing is VIOLATION


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> *Further explanation:
> We've been together for 15 yrs. We have 4 kids.
> The chic he nailed from FB, that's more complicated. We went thru a 'need to spice up our marriage' phase. He found someone for me, and then someone for himself. We each went off and did our thing. When I was done with mine, it was over. When he had done his thing it morphed into some sort of emotional thing with constant texts back and forth, pet names, etc. I confronted her and put a stop to that part, and he said that she 'sucked him in'.
> He also ended up getting REALLY jealous of me and my piece, accusing me of doing stuff when I wasn't. He even set up recording equipment to try and 'catch' me. He still claims to this day that there is evidence of me doing stuff on the tape even though I didn't, and I can't hear anything when I listen to it.
> ...


 

*Yes, they both violated- (OMG- let me clarify LORD HAVE MERCY-- are you serious right now )*

*Violation doesnt have to be just spouse. When you saw vows its not to just each other. It is to GOD as well- - *


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

I also thought that the openness/consent = no vows broken. I don't consider the woman he had sex with as cheating. Once they started texting back and forth constantly and using pet names for each other-that's when it crossed the line. He agreed! And he apologized, and quit contacting her.

Also, he found someone for me and arranged for him to stay with us. I do not have any guy friends/acquaintances/co-worker/etc. that I am familiar enough with to have any kind of relationship with, EA or PA. Sometimes I wish I did b/c it would be nice to have someone who makes me feel like I am something special, because I feel pretty damn worthless right now.

I get that the whole thing was a terrible idea, that we seriously wounded our relationship, that these things don't ever go the way ppl think they will....I knew all that last March.

I was naive to think that agreeing to the tryst wouldn't change what I thought was a bullet proof marriage...

So keep up with the scourging ppl. I'm not sure what I thought I would find here, but I had hoped it would be more than being told I did a stupid thing that has ****ed up my marriage-I didn't need to waste bandwidth to figure that out.

And for the ppl *****ing about the ladies kids names-I didn't do that on purpose, and admin helped me out by xing them out.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

NaturalHeart said:


> *Yes, they both violated- (OMG- let me clarify LORD HAVE MERCY-- are you serious right now )*
> 
> *Violation doesnt have to be just spouse. When you saw vows its not to just each other. It is to GOD as well- - *



Neither of us believe in god(s) anymore. Please don't say that that is part of our problem because I think we both know plenty of religious ppl who have marriage issues brought on by stupid choices, and I know dozens of atheists who have great marriages and who don't choose this kind of idiotic experimentation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

So here is what I have gotten from my first thread here:

1. Opening my marriage was a mistake.
2.I need to tell him I don't like it.
3. I reap what I sow
4. I shouldn't have copied the OW kids names on an open forum.
5. I need to quit acting like some innocent victim
6. I can't change the past
7. I need to tell him I don't like it
8. I need to create/ enforce boundaries
9. I violated my marriage vows so should really not be surprised that he thinks what I told him is not okay is actually ok.
10. Swinging never works and the OW kids names r still there.
11. My WH wanted to try an catch dirt on me so he could justify doing what he wants.
12. I should have only spiced things up with WH.
13. Sorry u r going thru this after u abided by the rules you both agreed to and he didn't.
14. My poor choices have made WH think less of me and that its okay for him to have these EA's
15 I am now in a one sided open marriage.
16 I didn't violate my marriage vows b/c I stayed w/in the agrees upon rules and did everything with his knowledge and consent.
17 but wait, yes it was a violation 
18 it was a violation on both sides and to god

So, did I sum that up right?
I think my thread has proly hit its expiration and I may just be talking to myself at this point.

Thank you to the couple of posters that showed some compassion and tried to give me some practical advice on how to proceed.
To the rest...idk...hope you got what you needed by repeatedly reminding me of how bad I screwed up.

Feeling sorry for myself you say? Probably.
I feel like I followed the rules as agreed upon between the 2 of us and that he has chosen to violate those rules, not just once, but now at least 3 times and he refuses to take any responsibility for it, but in fact, attempts to divert any culpability by accusing me of being unreasonable, insecure, jealous, etc.
I'm too exhausted for yet another fight about this.
I don't have anyone IRL I feel like I can go to with this b/c, as counterintuitive as this may sound, I don't want ppl I really know thinking badly about my husband, the man I chose, the father of my children...
It is humiliating and demoralizing to know I can no longer keep all of my husbands attention and affection. And even more devastating to know it is at least partly because of a huge mistake I made.
I remember the night I did it: I was standing outside the guest room where the OM was, with my WH and saying to him,"are you sure u are okay with this? Once I do this, I can't ever take it back."
He kissed me and assured me that it was okay, and told me to have a good time.
It seems so sick and twisted now, and I would give anything to go back to that night and not go through that door.
It feels like I got set up for some sadistic test. And I failed. And now I am being punished. And maybe I even deserve it.

I smile and laugh and play the part of the happy busy wife and mother by day, and sob and grieve my broken heart by night, pouring my heart out to anonamous strangers under a fake name because I am too humiliated to let irl ppl know what is really going on.

goddamn, what I wouldn't give for a hug.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Not quite sure which of the reply-categories you assigned me to, but your summary made me reflect a bit more. My posts were a bit brief due to enough-to-do-stuff-around-x-mas and may have come across as a bit cold, arrogant or non-compassionate. If that's the case; I do apologize, and here's a big [[CYBER-HUG]] for you.

The essence of what I meant with my posts hasn't changed though. The way I see it, you have two options: 1. Accept his infidelity (it's what it is, and it will soon turn into PA if not already). You may choose to have some fun on the side as well. 2. Carve your boundaries in stone for him and enforce them subsequently.

My advice is that you choose no. 2 and stick to it, and I know that you may get uncomfortable now. Explain to him in a calm and quiet manner, that you are aware of the fact that he may have gotten the wrong idea about your willingness, based on your previous accept, to let him cake-eat. Then explain to him that you want a monogamous relationship based on mutual respect, which means no opposite-sex friends and certainly no flirty conversations, online or IRL.

There's a chance that he will get the message and comply. There's also the risk that he continues the behaviour and thereby crossing your clearly defined boundaries. You still don't need to argue, yell or scream. Just download divorce papers, fill them out, ask him for input to various fields on the form, then ask him to sign it.

You can't change him, and you can't make him stop. The only thing you can do, that won't drive you nuts, is to state clearly what you accept and what not - and then react based on his reactions to that. You must be willing to loose him in order to make this work. That's my take on it, and I do believe that it will work - if not, you have your answer anyway.

Best of luck to you, and a final hug. Take care of you.


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

For what it's worth, here are my two cents:

Involving other partners was a bad idea, but since you both agreed to it, it's neither here nor there. All you can do is learn from it.

However, it doesn't matter that you agreed to an open marriage, you withdrew your consent, and he acknowledged it and agreed to stop. To continue in spite of this is a violation of your marriage. 

Don't feel bad about "opening a can of worms", you don't deserve to have your relationship devalued/disrespected forever because you made a bad choice together.

I dunno, if my relationship came to this I would probably end it and move on. Seems like it's broken.

Does anyone else think this board has a bit of gender bias going on?

Also, hugs.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

woman said:


> Does anyone else think this board has a bit of gender bias going on?


In which direction? There are probably more betrayed husbands thatn wives on the board (just a feeling).


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

I dunno, people seem to be clamoring to put this on the OP and I saw a thread recently where a guy's wife wasn't putting out so he cheated, and _she _was called abusive by a couple of people. Sorry if I'm wrong, just an observation.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> I loved your summary. We should have focused on your current situation, not the past. My post was supposed to give you a sense of empathy, as I don't believe that you are at fault in any way. I failed, obviously.
> 
> You have my support. Don't feel guilty.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Really. That tiger hug was much needed and much appreciated, as was the compassion and support. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

woman said:


> For what it's worth, here are my two cents:
> 
> Involving other partners was a bad idea, but since you both agreed to it, it's neither here nor there. All you can do is learn from it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the hugs and the validation. I am not detached enough or in a position to just leave. I am hoping to find a way to get thru to him and repair this so it won't come to that.
As far as the gender bias is concerned, I haven't read enough on here to have an opinion either way.
I do get that a lot of men on here have been hurt by women they love/loved and it may be difficult for them to not see my portion of the swinging as infidelity, and that in turn may have made it harder for them to have any empathy for my situation. I guess what I would ask from them is that if they cannot separate me from their WS emotionally, then they should proly just skip my post altogether.
Just my thoughts, i could be dead wrong on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

woman said:


> I dunno, people seem to be clamoring to put this on the OP and I saw a thread recently where a guy's wife wasn't putting out so he cheated, and _she _was called abusive by a couple of people. Sorry if I'm wrong, just an observation.


It is abusive to withhold sex from a spouse unless there are very good reasons... like medical problems. So yes she was abusive.


He cheated. His actions were wrong as well. 

What's hard to understand about that?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lilly,

Since the two of you agreed to try sex with others, what you did was not wrong. It was not really infidelity.

In a book I read on infidelity there was a chapter on this very topic. 

I'll use he/she here to fit your situation... This is how it works.

The husband wants to cheat. But he does not want to feel like a bad guy. So he talks his wife into some kind of sexual activity ... 2 some, wife swapping, anything to compromise her. So then the deed is done. Now the husband turns on the wife (his show of jealousy). Now he has amo on her. What can she say? She cheated... so now it's safe for him to cheat.. .he's in the clear. If she brings up his cheating.. he just throws her excapades in his face.

Go to cheater sites... you will see advice on how to use this ploy.

You my dear have been had. He knows exactly what he's doing. Look at that conversation thread.. he's working her, she's leading him on in a coy manner. He's a player and has been doing this for a while.

Don't know but would bet that the woman he brought in for you 'open period', the one he got caught up with emotionally. I'll bet they were already an item before he approached you with the idea.

Your husband thinks he has you right where he wants you. He can cake eat... has you any other woman he wants.. right under your nose.

The only way you are going to turn this around is to draw a very hard line as in he stops all contact with other women or you are filing for divorce.

Adn you cannot use the normal tacktics to expose the affair. Say you go to his parents and tell them that he's online chasing owmen and having an emotional affair. Do you know what he's going to do? He's going to tell his parents "Well she had an affair last year. even brought the guy into our house as a house guest and screwed him in our bed. I had to kick him out of the house. Can you blame me for just having some friends.. I mean look at these converstions. I'm just taking to some woman. Nothign going on. 

Then what are you going to do? STart trying to explain to his parents that he orchestrated the whole thing, he talked you int doing it? Are tehy going to buy that?

You are going to have to do something drastic... tell him to stop or you are filing for divorce. See and attorney, have a divorce plan and make sure everything is in order before you confront him... he just might call your bluff.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Swinging always draws a strong reaction. In that regard I see no gender bias.
> 
> Too bad that we are mostly unaware that some -many?- maintain a stable married relationship through many years in the swinging "lifestyle."


My take from the onset doesn't have to do with the fact they agreed to try out the lifestyle...it's that HE chose HER mate while he got to choose whoever he wanted. I think that kind of sucks, but no matter.

Now, he's continuing an EA with his mate while kicking hers out of the house. Again...that's what I have issue with. Not the choice but the execution of the game. This kind of stuff needs to be handled only by truly bullet proof marriages with a LOT of boundaries set up.

OP...all you can do is be honest with him and say what he's doing is totally unacceptable. It's got nothing to do with a god(s). It's got nothing to do with the lifestyle. It's got everything to do with him thinking he's not crossing boundaries. Which he is.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Decorum said:


> Lily,
> 
> I think you need to think about personal boundaries in a relationship.
> How to communicate, implement them and how to act.
> ...


Thank you for this well thought out, and informative post. You have given me a lot to think about.
I feel like WH & I have been coasting through much of our marriage as most of the problems were minor. The few bigger issues we just learned to avoid to keep the piece. And this seemed to work. Sadly, I am seeing where I should have been creating/enforcing boundaries this entire time and how my ignorance of relationship dynamics has cost me-us, big time.
We were Mormons for the first 10 yrs of our marriage so the only advice/counsel was to pray and read scriptures together. That's it. Deprogramming from that has left our compasses spinning a bit as we seek out our new moral code. What we should of done is walk out the church doors and right into a MC office....seems so obvious now. 

A question- you said that book was biblically based? How so? I have some ethical and belief issues with the bible so if it uses the bible as a reason to do thinks, I may not get out of it what others do.
Are their some similar secular sources you could recommend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> It is abusive to withhold sex from a spouse unless there are very good reasons... like medical problems. So yes she was abusive.
> 
> 
> He cheated. His actions were wrong as well.
> ...


Wait, what?! When did I ever say I withheld sex?
So you have just assumed I was abusive. Nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> Wait, what?! When did I ever say I withheld sex?
> So you have just assumed I was abusive. Nice.


I was not responding to you. I was responding to another poster who brought up a thread in which the wife withheld sex and her husband cheated blaming the withholding. The poster was claiming gender bias in responses.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Lilly,
> 
> Since the two of you agreed to try sex with others, what you did was not wrong. It was not really infidelity.
> 
> ...



*sigh* That's how it's been feeling to me even though he strenuously denies this.
At one point I took off to a hotel for the night and he about melted down. He ended up getting a sitter for the kids and comming after me. At the time it seemed like we sorted much of this out. We both admitted that sharing each other hurt and agreed that we were not cut out to be swingers and that we would put this behind us and go forward, together.
It was a beautiful and productive night- or so I thought at the time.

I don't know if I am just blind, but he just does not seem capable of being so shady to me. The cognitive dissonance of this relationship is pure torture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I was not responding to you. I was responding to another poster who brought up a thread in which the wife withheld sex and her husband cheated blaming the withholding. The poster was claiming gender bias in responses.


Then u have my apologies for my assumptions. Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> *sigh* That's how it's been feeling to me even though he strenuously denies this.
> At one point I took off to a hotel for the night and he about melted down. He ended up getting a sitter for the kids and comming after me. At the time it seemed like we sorted much of this out. We both admitted that sharing each other hurt and agreed that we were not cut out to be swingers and that we would put this behind us and go forward, together.
> It was a beautiful and productive night- or so I thought at the time.
> 
> I don't know if I am just blind, but he just does not seem capable of being so shady to me. The cognitive dissonance of this relationship is pure torture.


Even if he was not so devious as to plot all of that... it does seem like that's what he has done.. maybe just figuring out what to do next to make himself not quite the bad buy.

If you stick around here for a while you'll find that cheaters seem to have very definate patters of behavior. There has got to be a playbook out there that they are following 'cause the tacktics and word they use are way too common. In reality it's human nature when a person become selfish.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Not quite sure which of the reply-categories you assigned me to, but your summary made me reflect a bit more. My posts were a bit brief due to enough-to-do-stuff-around-x-mas and may have come across as a bit cold, arrogant or non-compassionate. If that's the case; I do apologize, and here's a big [[CYBER-HUG]] for you.
> 
> The essence of what I meant with my posts hasn't changed though. The way I see it, you have two options: 1. Accept his infidelity (it's what it is, and it will soon turn into PA if not already). You may choose to have some fun on the side as well. 2. Carve your boundaries in stone for him and enforce them subsequently.
> 
> ...


Thanx for that. You have been one of the more supportive posters, and it it much appreciated.

Your advice is really helpful, esp how you laid it out.
I am trying to compose a letter to WH to either give him, or use as notes when talking to him so I can stay on topic and not get sidelined by semantics.
I am also trying to figure out WHEN to do this. We've got 4 young kids all excited for x-mas and about to be on winter break, so privacy to have this conversation is difficult to come by right now.
I also don't want their x-mas marred by marital tension. Right now he thinks he's getting away with it, so he is happy, and I am good at 'keeping sweet' (something th Mormon church pounds into females from birth).
Then my 5 yr old has her b-day on the 28th, and I don't want us to be distracted from that either.

Do you recomend going away for a night to hash this stuff out, or just going into another room where u may be interrupted? Or maybe doing it all via email? Idk.

Also, I got the book 'Not Just Friends' on my kindle (it was recommended on this site quite a bit) and am reading it and highlighting portions of it that are pertinent to our situation. I am considering that I require him to read it as a gesture of his commitment to reconciliation.

I have also made an apt with a therapist. She didn't have openings till the 7th, but I am on her cancellation list. Should I have a few sessions first before confronting WH?

It sucks so much that this is going around the holidays. Every time he asked me what I want for x-mas I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying,"a faithful husband!"

Does this ever get better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Lily_O said:


> Neither of us believe in god(s) anymore. Please don't say that that is part of our problem because I think we both know plenty of religious ppl who have marriage issues brought on by stupid choices, and I know dozens of atheists who have great marriages and who don't choose this kind of idiotic experimentation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm so sorry


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

NaturalHeart said:


> I'm so sorry


Sorry that I no longer have an imaginary friend? Seems a little dramatic.
Do you say that to kids who no longer believe in Santa?

I really don't want this thread to disolved into some religious debate, so if u don't have any practical advice for my current situation, or you feel you need to preach to me, kindly take it to a thread where people already share your views. Jesus, like I don't already get enough of this **** from my Mormon family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

My apology was not referring to religion.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

NaturalHeart said:


> My apology was not referring to religion.


Wow. I am just one big raw defensive nerve today aren't I.
Sorry I misunderstood your post and went off on you like that. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Lily_O said:


> Wow. I am just one big raw defensive nerve today aren't I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Everyone understands.

Lily,

The book that was recomended in my post is on the top of the list and the principles there are used as reference in non religious works as well.
but considerng your background it may be hard for you to tolerate.

I have read the wisdom literature of many ancient people's, its somthing I enjoy, one does not have the see the bible as any more than literature in that genre in order to benifit from the perspective of their culture. But if you are de-programming from a situation that force fed it as a "revelation" then I understand why it might be distasteful to you.

I did not think the book came on that strong but you might feel differently.

You can go here and "look inside" the pages and see if it would be too much for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Marriage-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310243149#reader_0310243149

Here are some links I like, that are not bible reliant.

http://www.oprah.com/spirit/Begin-to-Set-Personal-Boundaries_1

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/the-importance-of-personal-boundaries/

http://joy2meu.com/emotional_abuse.html

http://joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm

http://www.learningandviolence.net/helpothr/SettingPersonalBoundaries.pdf

http://emergingfrombroken.com/why-setting-personal-boundaries-is-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds/


Other than this maybe if there is a library nearby you might find somthing there before you purchase it.


Lily,

I have no personal experience with your background but I have known people who have come out, and shared their struggle.

You lose a lot, family, community, personal idenity, mentors, social events. 

Plus no one you meet shares you background and can understand. Its like you were abducted from this planet for 10 years and plopped back down.
Are you guys finding a healthy support system of any kind. Even a hobby you could do together and build common friends? Please dont say, yea we have friends at the local club/bar, I mean somthing outside a party atmosphere.

I do not want to talk down to you by telling you somthing you know, but what you have gone through is a lot like a divoce, you have to rebuild your lives, your identities, your relationship, your time management, your support system.

Even your belief in ALL the institutions you accepted might be questioned. Marriage, government, family, love.

You had a bad experience, and until there is some healing you are really not even able to evaluate, what most people take for granted in these things.

Realize that your world view is somewhat reactive right now. That is not the best lense to see life through, but you have a serious wound, and it needs attention and time.

There are only three ways to percieve our life in this world and find our way.
1. Rationalism
2. Empiricism
3. Intuition

Dont re-invent the wheel and get all Cartesian about it. These are not mutually exclusive, they all have their place (you may feel like excludiing #3). Give yourself some time to heal and you will find them in good working order again.

But the more important point is,
You both need to realize that you could be vulnerable right now and be protective and proactive in your relationship.

Pease read the newbie thread in The Coping With Infidelity Section.

Your husband needs to redirect himself back into the marriage and realize the danger.

The book Not Just friends Is a standard here and the two of you should read it.

http://www.shirleyglass.com/bookmain.htm

I do wish you well and I hope you can put your lives back together, you have been through a lot!

Take Care!


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Things kind of exploded tonight. I hadn't been able to clean up the house much in the last few weeks (or keep on the kids to do it) so WH was making them do it and helping while I finished up a jewelry order that has to be mailed out tommorow and making dd's birthday reservations.

Next thing I know my Aspie son is FREAKING out. Apparently WH got pissed that the kids (ages 5, 9, 11 who has Aspergers) were not cooperating so he started grabbing their **** and throwing it in a trashbag-stuff like the x-box, toys, 13yr dd's English book (she does online school b/c she has ADHD and was doing that when this went down). He also threw a bunch of MY stuff in there too! WTF!!?
So my poor son, who takes everything litteraly, is just beside himself. I told him to go to his room and calm down and that I would deal with dad and the Xbox.

So I confront my WH, trying to figure out why he is throwing every bodies stuff in the trash (esp since he would lose his ever loving mind if anyone did that to the **** he leaves all over the house all the time). His gripe was that 'the kids don't mind!' So I had to ask him why I could get the LR clean without our kids having a meltdown. 
He says that's because he doesn't handle them the way I do so I countered with ,"I've given you suggestions on how to get them to mind, u won't take them. Why won't you do what I did and pick up a book and learn how to parent, then pick up another to learn how to parent a child with Aspergers!"

He finally said something to the effect of ,'why won't YOU just clean it up then! It's been a mess for weeks!

That's when I lost my **** completely. Money came up, I told him he would have money to buy me an Xmas present it he didn't spend it all on vodka, he came back with the 'I work so hard, what do u do all day" type stuff. (I am disabled, so I have a small income, I also make jewelry and sell it online, so I contribute there. I have a hard time doing stuff around the house, so it gets clean in bursts and I get the kids to help out, they still just need some encouraging supervision.....anyway.....and here is where I should have stopped. I said,"if you are incapable of helping with chores in your own home without reducing your kids to wails, then why don't u just get back on your commuter and go chat it up with your girlfriends!"

*facepalm*

There was more to it than that and the anger I had in me toward him suprised us both.
I'm already angry and hurt about the EA and now it feels like he was using some passive agressive means to get me to clean up the living room.
Get the kids all upset because he's barking orders and yelling, throw some of their stuff in the trash. As the kids melted down, WH begins to go critical and my spidey senses were tingling that someone was gonna get a whupin.
Just as he had planned it, I put down my stuff and Mommyfied the situation.
So, yeah, I handled that in about the worst way possible.
We haven't Spoken all evening.
Oh, and a few days ago, he started locking up his computer instead of leaving it open.
I need to figure this out soon so I don't have to keep living in this limbo of uncertainty.

He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me, he loves me not......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well there is a way to get the computer password. Is it a laptop or a desktop? 

You could tell him that him locking the computer can only mean one thing, he's cheating. And your will not tolerate his infidelity.


Do the two of you have your own computers?


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Decorum said:


> Everyone understands.
> 
> Lily,
> 
> ...



Wow! Thank you for that validating, compationate, and informative reply!
Leaving our church ( hard to call it that when it was way more of a cult) was a huge paradigm shif, not unlike the experience of the th protagonist on Truman. Except we still have lots of people in our lives plugged into the matrix, so to speak. So our support system went away when we became apostates.
We have worked to rebuild it outside and have made a few, good friend and I post regularly on an exmo recovery board.

I really appreciateted your considerate and sensitive approach to the book you mentioned.
I will go thru the sample reading to see how it might be of value to our situation.

Thank you again for taking the time to try and help me thru this painfully chapter, and for the links . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Well there is a way to get the computer password. Is it a laptop or a desktop?
> 
> You could tell him that him locking the computer can only mean one thing, he's cheating. And your will not tolerate his infidelity.
> 
> ...


Yes, we do, and his is PW protected. I am a bit wary of trying to hack it since he does that kind of stuff for a living and may be able to figure out of I have messed with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I am sorry to hear about your situation. Just finished reading your thread. 

I have to say, I totally agree with Elegirl. That was the thought in my head after reading your 1st post. That your husband wanted to try someone new and thought of a way in which to do that and remove the guilt in the process. To ok his desire to cheat. 

And it seems by his behaviour after you both decided that this was not a road you wished to follow, that he is continuing his 'cheating'. And yes, the chats he is having are totally inappropriate and constitute cheating as well as the desire to cheat. 

It is annoying that the holidays and birthdays are in the way. If you are able to hold on to it until after then great. If not, it may be worth having the talk with him 1 evening, sooner rather than later. And you can always put your demands out there, if he agrees to put a stop to it, great. If he does not agree to them then you can both hold it together over the holidays, he can stop doing what he is doing out of respect for his family and so that you can ALL have a nice time while you get the holidays out the way, and then once they are, the split up of the family will follow. 

Keep it amicable and pleasant, as best you can. Know you are right and do not waiver in your self assurance. Do not let him shift the blame to you. That is pure manipulation and that is all it is. If he tries to pin the blame on you, i.e. you won't let me have female friends, you are controlling, etc just tell him you are not prepared to put up with him doing such things as he is. And even agree with him. You are controlling, because he cannot control himself. He cannot have female friends because he holds no boundaries with them. They are not friends, they are possible conquests. So no. No females allowed. He cannot because he will not. 

Whatever you do, and whenever you do it, I hope you get it sorted with a positive outcome for all. 

Best of luck.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Wow. This guy is a real f'ng piece of work. He's an immature little boy. The way this reads is, if he doesn't get his way then he drops down to that childish behavior of yelling and throwing things (even if in the trash) which never, ever helps any situation.

Like the last few posters have said...there's only ONE reason someone locks their computer and you already know what that is. The biggest question is: How much longer can you put up with his trampling your marriage boundaries?

The whole beginning with the "open" sex stuff, again...it's him controlling everything. Hell, he even controlled WHO you got to have sex with. I'd be willing to bet if you had been able to find your own "partner" for that time period, it would have been a no-go. He wouldn't have even let it happen. Hence, he is probably one of the worst cake eaters I have ever seen on spoken about here.

Again...how much more can you take from this pathetic excuse for a man? What do you want?


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

This evening:
WH: I'm not mad at you.
Me: Well, I'm mad at you.
WH: *confused look*

He's used to me then going about what is upsetting me, then he denies, minimizes, gaslights, then we fight, then he walks out. He says he does that so he won't lose control. I am realizing that that is his way of controlling the situation.
I'm changing that dynamic right now. Not usually a fan of the silent treatment as I think that is manipulative. I just know I need to break our pattern of communication (or lack there of). 
Figuring this out as I go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You did well tonight as I don't think you are ready to address this with him.

Somewhere around here is a very good post of what a BS needs to do to do and ask for in order to even concider reconciliation. Hopefully someone will post a link here. Or maybe I can find it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is one thread that might help... don't know if you have already read it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ded-rebuild-trust-dss-honesty.html#post208407


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Cool! Thank you.
I think I started on it last night but was too tired to finish. Thank you again for the validation-I hadn't realized how starved I've been for that, kwim?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your husband is a very messed up piece of work.

It's very telling that his need to cheat was so much more important than his love for you. The fact that he found the OM for you and moved him into the house with your children is shocking and sickening. I'm not a religious person so I'm not just knee jerk reacting here. His actions are not ok. He brought home a man and without flinching sent you into the room to have sex with the OM.

No man who loves and values his wife would be able to do that. The fact that he did it without bonking reveals a cold dark side of your husband.

This isn't a story about swinging where one partner falls for the third person, it's turned into a cold husband who sends his wife to have. Sex with a stranger.

You need to get out from this relationship, it's not a healthy or emotionally supportive one. You haven't ha the love of a man who values and adores you. Such a man would be hurt beyond belief by you being with another man. Not put of jealousy but because he valued you and only you.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes, there has got to be a huge disconnect for a man to willingly share his wife. IMO. Certainly some have fantasies about another man being involved. Very different though turning it into reality. More so when that reality has no involvement with him in any way other than his ok-ing it. And more so again when he has set his wife up with the whole situation. Just weird.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

He manipulated you into believing this was a way to spice up your sex life. He duped you in the worst possible way. And the fact he duped you comes to light in the way he has behaved since the whole episode. 

Don't, please, beat yourself up over the episode. You did it in good faith and trust in your husband. I think if you hadn't have gone along with it, you may well find yourself in this situation anyway. His wish to cheat was there regardless. His actions were probably on this path already. And this you would still be dealing with this situation now anyway. It just would have had a different level of hurt for you and dealing with it would have been less uncertain, as he has been able to keep you on the back foot due to getting you to do what you did.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Just wanted to check in. I apologize for not directly responding to some of the more recent posts yet. The x-mas, b-day, business stuff has me busy.
I've also been trying to keep this in the back of my mind me stomach wont eat itself and I don't aggravate my hypertension. I can't afford a migraine or another trip to the ER his month for kidney issues related to hypertension. So I am temporarily indulging in the opiate denial so I can enjoy the illusion of normalcy. Anyone understand this?

He still hasn't apologized for his behavior a few nights ago and I haven't demanded one-yet. I am writing out and organizing my thought as they come and do not envy him what he will feel when he reads it.
I do believe he feels something as he has been doing the (gasp) dishes and cleaning the kitchen.

Every so often, while making small talk, and watching movies, there is a moment where I remember why I married him and I get an intense pang of sadness.
How did it all come to this?
Is there any way to come back from this?
Has anyone here ever had their relationship come back from something like this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes I understand the opiate denial. It's ok for a short while.

And yes, some people do recover their relationships from something like this. It's hard but it can be done.

Starting with the book 'Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley can help.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks, eleGirl. I think the worst part of this whole thing is the isolation. I am an open and friendly person irl who likes to talk about things, but in my home, where I should feel the safest in the world, I can't talk about how I feel. Not to the person who should be my best friend because he has/is betraying me by busily being there for OW, or to my children because I feel it would be wrong to burden them with the issues I'm having with their father.

I feel like someone who has invested their life's savings into a company that they believed in 100%, and that company turned out to be Enron.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Still reading the book 'Not Just Friends'. It's so hard to get thru as nearly every page hits me in such a raw, swollen, and abscessed part of my emotional psyche. I find I have to put it down and distract myself every 4 or 5 pages. I don't know if I will be able to get WH to read it and I wouldn't know how to begin to condense its pages into a single conversation.

I had a very long and tiring day yesterday, but I got a lot done, x-mas wise. Then last night WH wanted to have sex. All the stress and anxiety combined with an exhausting day had left me feeling pretty needy in that department as well. What a bizarre combination of conflicting emotions! So I asked WH to make me a glass of wine and I smoked some of my MM. After I sufficiently dulled the emotional bit, I was ready to go. 
I still couldn't bring myself to go down on WH, which is something I had always enjoyed doing for him. Maybe it has something to do with not wanting to be that vulnerable with him, or make him feel any empowerment over me...idk. I don't think it was about me punishing him, since I enjoy doing it and he wasn't unhappy about not getting it.
He seemed more interested in doing for me anyway, and I let him.
It was very, very good. He put everything into getting me off even though he didn't (happens when he drinks). He was happy to wait till the next morning, which was quick, but also good.

Sorry if this seems like TMI, I guess my point in sharing is that I don't have one single complaint when it comes to our physical relationship or his meeting my needs there (currently anyway, another long story, but it has been many years since then). That tends to make this all the more confusing in ways that are difficult to articulate.

So, I am pretty tired today and am just trying to get some rest before the final leg of the holiday marathon and the relationship overhaul that will soon follow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Has anyone read this book? The Emotional Affair: How to Recognize Emotional Infidelity and What to Do About It:Amazon:Books
The reviews seem a little mixed, but it seems like it has some tips on how to prepare for a confrontation, which is what I am looking for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Unfortunately, no. The first apt I could get is for Jan 7.
Currently I am booking a hotel room for the 29th & getting a sitter for the night.
Then we will have a very long talk and decide if we can work it out.


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## Lily_O (Dec 17, 2012)

Again, I just couldn't manage to keep my mouth shut.

I get home from Xmas shopping & picking up dinner and WH is on the phone.
When he gets off I ask who it was. "I was wishing an old friend of mine a merry Xmas, her name is Kxxx."

A bolt of adrenaline shot thru my body and I retorted. ," Yeah, I know who SHE is!"
He looked all confused and tried to hug me. I brushed him off and went upstairs to wrap presents. My appetite was gone, replaced by roiling acid.
I sat down and closed the closet door. He followed me in, all concerned asking what he did to make me so angry.
I told him flat out that I didn't want to discuss it right then because it would just ruin Xmas.
My hands were shaking so hard that I could barely cut the wrapping paper.
So he left, then came back with a glass of wine for me. And, once again, he asked what was wrong, and again I said that I did not wish to discuss it at this point. But he just kept pressing.
So finally I broke. I told him that he was cheating and had been since March and I have the transcripts. I told him that I wasn't going to put up with it and if he didn't stop, that I would no longer be his wife.

So he gets all pissed of at me claiming that those women were just his friends and that he could have female friends and that I am just jealous. 
When I told him that the chats were highly inappropriate he said 'that's just how I talk to women.' And 'So I can't be who I am or you will leave me?"
He took no responsibility. Even the original affair was not his fault b/c she sucked him in. *eyeroll*
I told him I was going to a therapist on the 7th and that she is also a marriage councelor.
Him: Oh, a female, so she can just tell you how right you are and what am ******* I am!
He just couldn't figure out what parts of his chats were so objectionable & I told him I had posted the whole thing on an anonymous msg board and he said,"Oh I'm sure you just gave them half the story so they would feel sorry for you!"
So I told him to read it. He wouldn't. 

The convo ended with him storming out of the closest saying something to the effect of,"I don't have to listen to this bull****."
So I sat and cried for a while.

That was about 12 hrs ago. We haven't spoken since.
He fell asleep on the couch. I got the stockings stuffed and have been in front of the mirror, practicing convincing smiles for Xmas morning.

The book I'm reading suggests not making any permanent decisions for 3 months.
So he has 3 months to take responsibility for his actions and start working with me and a MC to fix this mess.

If after that 3 months is over and he is not on board to help save this marriage, I'll be looking at efficiency apartments for him and we will separate till we figure out how best to go forward. Maybe he needs to live without me for a while to realize how much I have been doing for him.

It was so heartbreaking to realize that those 'friendships' of his are more important to him than me or my happiness.

I still can't believe my marriage is dying. How could I have chosen so poorly and then bring kids into it? I feel so stupid and heartsick right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Lily,
I wish I has some words to make you feel better, Im so sorry.

It looks like from a distance that he is very bonded to you, not what we would call "checked out" of the marriage.

He also seems like a gold medal cake eater.

My observations from reading here on TAM are that in spite of usually getting pissed, these typed of ws 
(wayward spouse) responds well to a clear and no compromise approach.

Use your best judgment. Remember to show the hurt in your eyes, no one can argue with your pain, and regardless of what he may say, he will know he is the cause and can be the cure of it.

Lily, you sound like a very strong person, can you talk a bit more about your relationship, in terms of decision making, respect, communication?

Take care.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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