# Separated Today - Discovered Emotional Affair



## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Hello,
I started reading this forum back in May of 2011 because I needed help with the fact that my wife told me that she loved me but was not in love with me. She asked me to leave back then and I did. Well I did that 180 thing and it seemed to work and I was able to return to the house. Things seemed to get better that year as well as in 2012 and 2013. However, almost exactly a year ago things were really bad. She would not even want to hug me or even go out together. We were like roommates. 

Now looking back on this I have been putting this all together in my head over the last few months and it is all starting to make sense to me especially after what I discovered today. Well from my experience when your wife says she loves you but is not in love with you THEN THERE IS SOMEONE ELSE in the picture. And I was a fool. I found the evidence today and I confronted her. She denied, blew up, then blamed me. I am staying at my mom's house now. This deception has been going on for years. I am so depressed and don't know how I am going to get through this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What kind of proof do you have?

How long as the EA been going on?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

It has been going on Since mid 2010. Things have been so bad lately like she would pull back if I tried to hug her. She went out today and I did something that I have never done. I decided to go through her things and I found the diary of the person. It was easy to find in a stack of papers. It has numerous dated entries over the course of years. And he talks about how special their relationship is, how he can't wait to see her, etc. they may have been more than emotional. 
I have such a bad headache it feels like my brain is on fire. We have been married 10 years.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why would she have the diary of her affair partner?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Why would she have the diary of her affair partner?


It is a good question. 

Complacency is the obvious answer.

The second is that last time he had a kick up the arse, he did something about it and saved the marriage. This time she might think she can do the same.

Except, the 180 is for his sake. Time for the Legal Eagle to evidence gather.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Assume a physical affair. get tested..


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your focus should be in gathering evidence, and focusing on healing yourself. The goal you should be aiming for is to be fine with or without her. You have to somewhat reinvent yourself, as your identity was so closely tied to hers. Does that make sense. You viewed her as a part of you, and now that she is gone, you feel like you have lost a part of yourself. Detach and focus on yourself as an individual, and the more self-improvements you make, the more confident you will become. When we achieve our goals, we just naturally grow more confident. Take focus away from her as hard as that may be, because you still have an attachment to her, she will be only a distraction in your healing process.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

What do you want to do?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

When I confronted her it was on the phone out with her sister and a friend and she told me to get out by the time she got back. I took my essentials and left and I told her I did not want to see her anymore. I don't know why she had his diary and why she would leave in a place so easy to find. Remember she threw me out back in 2011 so maybe she did not care or wanted me to find it. 

Last night before I went to sleep at my mom's house I got weak and called her to talk. She said she was done and there is nothing to work on. She said I was not there for her when she needed me. I think there is more than one person. I told her that those people are here today gone tomorrow. But I am here. They are all people that she meets on Facebook and live in India. She has traveled there three times since 2011. I know this is not normal but I think I was so afraid of being alone I turned a blind eye to it. She said don't come home and don't call because I am bugging her. 

I am very upset and this and the only relief is when I go to sleep. 
I don't think there is anything I can do or say that can make her see that we could have a happy life together and it hurt a lot when she said not to call because I miss her so much. I have to get ready to go to work and I think it is really going to suck today because my mind is going to keep playing this out over and over.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Should I try calling her today?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You need to be your own individual person, which you are not. Your clingy and very needy, not exactly an attractive quality. Your whole world should not revolve around your wife. You have to know that you are a separate entity from her. Your still too attached, and until you detach enough, you will find some clarity. You would think to yourself, why did I let someone else dictate my value. I have good qualities that someone will cherish. And you will realize that the reality is your wife is an dishonest,selfish person. Those qualities after you detach enough, you find you do not want in a wife. Just work on your weaknesses.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> Should I try calling her today?


No.
She's probably expecting you to do just that and then she will pile on more BS. You did the 180 before, time to apply it again. For you.

Of course you weren't "there" for her. "There" was her little made up fantasy life with the OM. 

You say you want her back. HMMM. Why? This woman has been lying and deceiving you for several years. Is that okay with you? It really shouldn't be.
Why did you leave the marital home? She is the unfaithful one, if anyone leaves it should be her. Can you go back? Is it owned or rental? Are there kids involved? Does she work outside the home?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Should I try calling her today?


You think you are a victim here. You are, but first and foremost of yourself. You have dedicated yourself to this relationship and will not permit yourself to be happy if it does not work. That is acting like a sulky child. 

Learn to be free and more selfless. The fact is she is not interested in you and has found someone else. If you were as selfless as you think you are, you would be pleased for her. You would have had no trouble accepting she was seeing someone else, as you did not need her. 

There was a time when you did not need her. Then you met her and decided that a relationship with her had to work and was actually essential. Work on yourself. Here are a few suggestions on how:
1. Shut up. It is hard, but do not call. It is the whiney child that you think you are who wants to call. 
2. Monitor. If you are going to be divorced, you will need evidence. DO NOT confront her with it, she knows what she is doing already. It is only the bit of you that thinks she owes you because you feel vulnerable that wants to confront her.
3. Move back in. It is your home too. You are not pathetic, even if you get the feeling you are. If you divorce, you will need a place to live.

You did not do the 180. You made an effort to improve yourself for her, which gave her an incentive to do the same to you again. Do it for you, learn to be an independent man and stop deluding yourself that you are not that man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> When I confronted her it was on the phone out with her sister and a friend and she told me to get out by the time she got back. I took my essentials and left and I told her I did not want to see her anymore. I don't know why she had his diary and why she would leave in a place so easy to find. Remember she threw me out back in 2011 so maybe she did not care or wanted me to find it.
> 
> Last night before I went to sleep at my mom's house I got weak and called her to talk. She said she was done and there is nothing to work on. She said I was not there for her when she needed me. I think there is more than one person. I told her that those people are here today gone tomorrow. But I am here. They are all people that she meets on Facebook and live in India. She has traveled there three times since 2011. I know this is not normal but I think I was so afraid of being alone I turned a blind eye to it. She said don't come home and don't call because I am bugging her.
> 
> ...


She told you to leave.?
She threw you out in 2010?

Really? She order you to leave and you do?

It's your legal residence. Why did you leave?

Are there are children?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Thank you all for the replies. I will take your advice and not call her today. We own the home no kids. She came into the marriage with a lot of money that we used for the home. She has a job as a receptionist in a dr office and her income is very small not enough to support herself. 
You suggested moving back in but that is going to be a tough one because: 
1. She might get crazy angry with me. And I have seen that and it scares me. I can't/ don't want police involved 
2. Even if I do move back in. For the last few months when I wake up I start burning up inside because she is on her phone messaging and talking her India friends and it really hurts me.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Thank you all for the replies. I will take your advice and not call her today. We own the home no kids. She came into the marriage with a lot of money that we used for the home. She has a job as a receptionist in a dr office and her income is very small not enough to support herself.
> You suggested moving back in but that is going to be a tough one because:
> 1. She might get crazy angry with me. And I have seen that and it scares me. I can't/ don't want police involved
> 2. Even if I do move back in. For the last few months when I wake up I start burning up inside because she is on her phone messaging and talking her India friends and it really hurts me.


There is a lot to be discussed about how you have been as a husband. It is a bit late for all that though. 

If you stay out, you have abandoned your family. If it comes to court, that will not put you in a good stead. You will want to look after your family, but you will do it because you choose.

This is scary. If I seem harsh, it is not because I am angry, I really am not. However, you are in a perilous situation and therefore the tone of the posts. Please, excuse that. 

When you wake up, you remember your situation. You remember your thought that you desperately need a good marriage and will not be happy without it. You remember that you do not have it. You look to your wife, whom you relied on to provide the life you decided you needed, as the one who has not provided it. You burn with anger. Then she messages her Indian friends and you are reminded of your anger and that makes you miserable. She is meant to need you and you depend on her to be happy. Stop it. It is not straight forward, but I do not depend on your wife for my happiness and you should not either.

Your name on here is legaleagle. Are you familiar with the law?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> Thank you all for the replies. I will take your advice and not call her today. We own the home no kids. She came into the marriage with a lot of money that we used for the home. She has a job as a receptionist in a dr office and her income is very small not enough to support herself.
> You suggested moving back in but that is going to be a tough one because:
> 1. She might get crazy angry with me. And I have seen that and it scares me. I can't/ don't want police involved
> 2. Even if I do move back in. For the last few months when I wake up I start burning up inside because she is on her phone messaging and talking her India friends and it really hurts me.


So the house is 50% yours. You can force the sale or she buys you out.

It has been years and she has continued this nonsense. At this point there is no negotiation. You have to show her that she is losing you, period.

Do not contact her.

Rent a storage space and get all of your things out of that house. You can go there when she's not around (do not tell her that you are doing this. Just go when she is at work.)

If you have to go when she is at home do not go there alone since you are concerned about things getting out of hand, police, etc.

So either take one or two friends/family members with you to help. She is much less likely to go ballistic if someone is with you.

If you need, also ask for the police to have an officer there to oversee and prevent things from exploding.

When you go to the house, have a VAR (voice activated recorder) on you so that you can record anything that goes on. Just make sure that you keep your cool so that the recording does not incriminate you.

Start interacting with her according to the 180 (see the link in my signature block below).

You can then go see an attorney and file for divorce. Have her served. Do not tell her about your filing, let her be shocked when she is served.

Remember that a divorce an be stopped at any time up to when the judge signs the final decree. And there is always re-marriage.

Once she is served, then if you still think you want to try to reconcile, write her an email or send her a letter saying that you will not stay in a marriage while she is cheating. Leave it at that.

There is a slight chance that the divorce wake her up to the fact that you will no longer allow her to abuse you like this.

Then start working on yourself. Improve your health, get out do things. If you are in the USA or Canada, look at Find your people - Meetup find things you enjoy. Get out and meet people.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

A 4-year EA that hasn't gone PA would seem to be pretty unlikely. And, as you say, there may very well be more than one AP.

Just file for divorce already.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

OP

You need to get angry!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> A 4-year EA that hasn't gone PA would seem to be pretty unlikely. And, as you say, there may very well be more than one AP.
> 
> Just file for divorce already.


I think that the AP lives in India. And she lives in another country.. not sure where.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

We live in the USA.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your wife is a serial cheater who needs the constant high of new relationships. She is addicted to the feeling of being in love, or the infatuation stage. She is really a love addict. When the high wears out in one relationship, she will seek another to replace it. Just my theory.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I tried to get ready to go to work today but I just could not do it. I stayed here at my mom's all day except to send some bills out at the post office. I was strong and did not text or call her. She did not contact me either. I was on the phone with my sister today and she said I should start protecting myself which is advice that has been said by all of you here. She said I should call American Express and disable her card under my account because she is famous for running up that card.

I called them and opted to put a low spending limit on it so she would still be able to buy groceries or gas. I planned on telling her later this week because I need to go by the house in a few days to pick up the mail. They did not tell me that they would email her to let her know. Which they did and she started blowing up my phone with angry text messages. I responded that I did not do it to hurt her but now that we are not together anymore things need to change financially and that we will need to discuss how things need to be split up fairly and support issues. Further I was going to tell her but she was so strong in telling me not to contact her that I did not want to communicate with her in any way today.

We were on the phone for over one hour and I did no groveling or begging and I told her that those people are here today gone tomorrow and I am here but I don't know if I could even take her back even if she wanted me to come home. She said that I was not there for her over the last few years when she needed someone to talk to. I had a couple of really bad years during the recession and had to really work hard to keep money coming in to support us. All the while she is spending and going on these trips and talking with these other people. I apologized but told her it was no excuse for what she did. She said to bring her computer back which I took because I was using it recently because mine was broken. I told her I would then she said do you have anything else belonging to her. I said no. But then I said I am not going to lie. I have the journal. So she must have noticed it missing. Up to that point I did not tell her I had it. She said it was fake and they made it up for me to find and hurt me. I don't believe her.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Why would she have the diary of her affair partner?


She says they made it up for me to find and hurt me so I would leave her


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> What do you want to do?


I don't know my mind is going in circles right now.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Do the 180 and get a separation agreement as soon as possible.

You should cancel that credit card.

let her "friends" start paying her lavish life style. The OMs will not stay long.

Sorry for your pain.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Number one she can force you to leave if this is your house as well.
Number two you need to take control....turn on the 180 
Number three she is gas lighting you...you need to remind her that she a cheater....
Number four lawyer up and serve her papers


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> I tried to get ready to go to work today but I just could not do it. I stayed here at my mom's all day except to send some bills out at the post office. I was strong and did not text or call her. She did not contact me either. I was on the phone with my sister today and she said I should start protecting myself which is advice that has been said by all of you here. She said I should call American Express and disable her card under my account because she is famous for running up that card.
> 
> I called them and opted to put a low spending limit on it so she would still be able to buy groceries or gas. I planned on telling her later this week because I need to go by the house in a few days to pick up the mail. They did not tell me that they would email her to let her know. Which they did and she started blowing up my phone with angry text messages. I responded that I did not do it to hurt her but now that we are not together anymore things need to change financially and that we will need to discuss how things need to be split up fairly and support issues. Further I was going to tell her but she was so strong in telling me not to contact her that I did not want to communicate with her in any way today.
> 
> We were on the phone for over one hour and I did no groveling or begging and I told her that those people are here today gone tomorrow and I am here but I don't know if I could even take her back even if she wanted me to come home. She said that I was not there for her over the last few years when she needed someone to talk to. I had a couple of really bad years during the recession and had to really work hard to keep money coming in to support us. All the while she is spending and going on these trips and talking with these other people. I apologized but told her it was no excuse for what she did. She said to bring her computer back which I took because I was using it recently because mine was broken. I told her I would then she said do you have anything else belonging to her. I said no. But then I said I am not going to lie. I have the journal. So she must have noticed it missing. Up to that point I did not tell her I had it. She said it was fake and they made it up for me to find and hurt me. I don't believe her.


You did every well. That took a lot..

Does she work? Or is she completely dependent on you for income?

You might want to put in a change of address so that she does not get our mail.




legaleagle said:


> Up to that point I did not tell her I had it. She said it was fake and they made it up for me to find and hurt me. I don't believe her.


I'm not surprised she said that. Of course they spent hours creating a fake journal just to mess with.. right? :rofl:


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Xenote said:


> Number one she can force you to leave if this is your house as well.
> Number two you need to take control....turn on the 180
> Number three she is gas lighting you...you need to remind her that she a cheater....
> Number four lawyer up and serve her papers


What is gas lighting?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> What is gas lighting?


That would be the gradual, intentional, and malicious re-writing of your marital history. The intent is to make you doubt yourself and keep you off balance so that you'll lose your resolve; in short, to drive you insane.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> She says they made it up for me to find and hurt me so I would leave her


LOL. You'd be best served by assuming that anything and everything out of her mouth from this point forward is a total and complete lie.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

It is 10:30 pm and I am doing ok and don't have any desperate urge to contact her and I think I will make it. I don't want to. I got that journal out though and something does not add up. There are multiple dated entries in there but I looked on the back cover and it was manufactured in India and has a manufactured date of April 2014. So how are there entries in there with dates earlier than that. If she/ they made this up to hurt me and leave it laying around the house that is some serious Cruelty. When we had the conversation about the credit card she said she made it up because she felt there was no other way to get me to leave than do such a thing. I guess her plan worked. Initially I did not believe her but I don't know now. I am going to talk with a family lawyer this week and I will not go to the house alone when she said I get some more of my stuff. I don't know what she is capable with this knowledge


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## ellaenchanted (Sep 7, 2014)

Legal eagle, I'm so so sorry for your pain. 
My theory is that even though she "made up" the journal it was the truth about her EA/PA she's in the fog at this stage and she imagines her life without you will be better. Little does she know. 
She used the journal as a way of exposing her affair to you, which is a way of her getting out, what a coward! 

Stay strong, keep telling yourself that you're better than her and she does not deserve you. Do the 180, file for divorce and get your belongings out of your home. 

I know how tough this is but a chapter of your story has just ended, now in with the new. 

This will give you chance to become content and happy with your own life and who knows one day you may find an amazing faithful person. 

Take it one day at a time, don't do what a lot of other people do, don't let yourself go, stay healthy, look after yourself and make the best version of you. 
Time heals every wound you will get there very slowly. 

Be strong and don't back down.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> It is 10:30 pm and I am doing ok and don't have any desperate urge to contact her and I think I will make it. I don't want to. I got that journal out though and something does not add up. There are multiple dated entries in there but I looked on the back cover and it was manufactured in India and has a manufactured date of April 2014. So how are there entries in there with dates earlier than that. If she/ they made this up to hurt me and leave it laying around the house that is some serious Cruelty. When we had the conversation about the credit card she said she made it up because she felt there was no other way to get me to leave than do such a thing. I guess her plan worked. Initially I did not believe her but I don't know now. I am going to talk with a family lawyer this week and I will not go to the house alone when she said I get some more of my stuff. I don't know what she is capable with this knowledge


So it is either a fabrication or a copy. Was each entry witting the in same pen/ink? or were different ones used? Is it all in the same hand writing?

That was extremely cruel if the diary is jus made up.

When you see a lawyer, make sure you ask about getting her off the card and out of your money.

Me? I would make photo copies of each page and give them to the lawyer. Do not tell the lawyer about the date on the notebook. If you can file divorce based on fault for adultery you have the proof right there. Be sure to name the OM from the notebook in the divorce.

Now let her argue, in writing to her lawyer, your lawyer and maybe even the court that it's not real and they made it up to hurt you. She probably cannot prove that it is fake.

If you do this, you will be teaching her a valuable lesson... DO NOT MESS WITH ME

There is probably more truth to the notebook then not..... who would help her do that but a lover who wanted you out of the way?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> It is 10:30 pm and I am doing OK and don't have any desperate urge to contact her and I think I will make it. I don't want to. I got that journal out though and something does not add up. There are multiple dated entries in there but I looked on the back cover and it was manufactured in India and has a manufactured date of April 2014. So how are there entries in there with dates earlier than that. If she/ they made this up to hurt me and leave it laying around the house that is some serious Cruelty. When we had the conversation about the credit card she said she made it up because she felt there was no other way to get me to leave than do such a thing. I guess her plan worked. Initially I did not believe her but I don't know now. I am going to talk with a family lawyer this week and I will not go to the house alone when she said I get some more of my stuff. I don't know what she is capable with this knowledge


Her version of this sorry story will be one of an insensitive husband not understanding her needs. This is nonsense, it happens but it also something that women just say. She will rationalize this by saying that she had no other way of getting you to understand her needs, were she to post on here there would be many posters sympathizing with her. You are going to think that we cannot see both sides to this and many will not, but either way, 

She may also be angry at you for reading her private stuff. Either way, you will be blamed for all of this. It is not unusual. 

Consider if a man had done all this. It would be very clearly terrible behaviour. Actually, it is exactly that. Chill out, clear your head and get on with your legal task ahead of you. What you have in your possession is either evidence of an affair or mental cruelty.

Be careful not to be vain. If you think that is not a temptation, then you are wrong. Can you live with the nagging feeling that you might be the baddie? It will be there and if you refuse to be happy with that feeling, you will fall into a trap. If you refuse to be seen by anyone as the baddie, then you are guilty of vanity. Clear your head and good luck.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

She came to the marriage with money and she has a job. Let her support herself.
Cancel her card, take her off the accounts-you are not financially abandoning her because she is not SAHM. Any joint account you two have, go to the bank and take one-half out and put in a separate account in just your name.

She is really manipulative and I am so sorry for your pain. It hurts like hell to believe that someone you loved would do this to you. Does it really matter if the journal is real (cruel) or made up and left for you to find (cruel). No one deserves that kind of behavior. She is acting like a spoiled brat and it sure sounds like a time to start treating her that way.
The sooner you can force yourself to emotionally detach from this situation, the sooner you can start to heal.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I went to the house while she was at work. I took a friend. I got thing I need for the next week at so. I wrote and left a check to her to cover bills that need to be paid and for her expenses. 
This is not easy. I am not eating. My family thinks I am out of my mind to even consider trying to get back with her. I am very lonely. I don't understand why this is happening to me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

legaleagle said:


> I went to the house while she was at work. I took a friend. I got thing I need for the next week at so. I wrote and left a check to her to cover bills that need to be paid and for her expenses.
> This is not easy. I am not eating. My family thinks I am out of my mind to even consider trying to get back with her. I am very lonely. I don't understand why this is happening to me.


Um, you ARE out of your mind for wanting to be with her. She has betrayed you for FOUR YEARS! Just try to wrap your brain around that! She has no respect for you at all, she does not love you, does not want you. Be done. File for divorce and move on to a much better life without her.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You realize you are giving her everything you want....STOP IT.....STOP IT....dear god man gain control of your balls and either sell the house or move back in....she is playing you and your going along with it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why would you give her money for anything? Is the house paid for and in her name?
Is she from India and have family there?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Legaleagle-how are you doing?

Please stop giving her money. Consider the fact that you are financing her affair? That burns, doesn't it.
So tonight, read a book, go see a movie, see a live band, call some friends, make plans with your family. DO NOT CALL HER.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Legaleagle-how are you doing?
> 
> Please stop giving her money. Consider the fact that you are financing her affair? That burns, doesn't it.
> So tonight, read a book, go see a movie, see a live band, call some friends, make plans with your family. DO NOT CALL HER.


He is one of the few cases where I would recommend taking that money and spending it on strippers.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Why did I leave her a check? I talked with my good friend that does family law and he said that since we have a long term marriage and I earned and paid for everything ( her income is less than $800 per month) that if I totally cut her off financially She could get go into court and get an emergency spousal support order from any judge in this county within a day or so. So I would pay anyway and then I would look like the bad guy also.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Legaleagle-how are you doing?
> 
> Please stop giving her money. Consider the fact that you are financing her affair? That burns, doesn't it.
> So tonight, read a book, go see a movie, see a live band, call some friends, make plans with your family. DO NOT CALL HER.


Thank you for asking. I have not called or messaged her today. She has not either. She really does not care about me and that is the truth. Maybe in the past but ever since she took me back in 2011 it was never like it was in the beginning. I tried and tried to make things better but she never went out of her way to make plans or do things with me. In fact as soon as I got back that time she was making plans to go to India. She was born here in the USA and has no family there whatsoever. They are all from here. I don't know why she did not get rid of me sooner. Maybe she felt bad for me. I don't know and will never know. 

Yes she did come into the marriage with a large amount of money but we used it all for the house to mostly pay it off. Over the last few years she would use that to make me feel bad that I used her life savings for the house. But I made 95% of the income. 

And further as a self employed person I had to work what seemed twice as hard to make less money during the recession while she is going on these trips, shopping, getting plastic surgery and I was always worried about keeping enough money coming in to pay for everything. And she says I did not give her the attention she needed but it was like a vicious circle I had to work more to pay for this stuff but I had less time for her. I talked more with my friend that does family law and I am pretty much screwed. 

I will not call her.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Why did I leave her a check? I talked with my good friend that does family law and he said that since we have a long term marriage and I earned and paid for everything ( her income is less than $800 per month) that if I totally cut her off financially She could get go into court and get an emergency spousal support order from any judge in this county within a day or so. So I would pay anyway and then I would look like the bad guy also.


Doormats aren't attractive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

legaleagle,

Sometimes life just sucks and there is no good explanation. I know it's hard to understand. It just is.

There are thing that no matter how long you run them through your head, they make no sense. You may never have an explanation. 

The best revenge in a situation like this is for you to go on and have a great life. I'm sure that is hard for you to see right now. 

Focus on yourself. Take care of you. Start building a new life.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

It really is ok to feel the pain of a lost relationship. You pretty much need to feel it before you can do any kind of a healing recovery.
Consider contacting your MD and discuss meds for depression. Ending a relationship is a huge life event and it would be expected that you would feel some type of depression because of it.
But also go out to the gym. Exercise can help you feel better. There are the endorphins, and the knowing you are doing something just for you. Lord knows you've earned it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> Why did I leave her a check? I talked with my good friend that does family law and he said that since we have a long term marriage and I earned and paid for everything ( her income is less than $800 per month) that if I totally cut her off financially She could get go into court and get an emergency spousal support order from any judge in this county within a day or so. So I would pay anyway and then I would look like the bad guy also.


This post really expresses the reality of your situation. You do nothing in your wife's eyes, or any woman or person, that would command any respect. Whenever she says jump, you ask how high. 

She tells you, while shes out trolling for men for you to get out before she gets home and you do it. The correct response was, "you better not bring your cheating a$$ back to this house."

You literally said you were"scared" of her. Why do you think a woman would want to be with a man she dominates? Answer......money, and that's all. Ergo, she gets pissed when you barely cut back on her finances and you fold like cheap tent. Cut her off completely. She kicked you out. Make her fight for every penny. Think about this. You paid her way back to India so she could have sex with other men.

Your relationship with this woman is ruined by your lack of self confidence. Disappear from her life, get how to be a male therapy and then find a woman and you be the man in the relationship. Example, men c+ck block as in their wives don't go out drinking, clubbing partying without them.

When you get through reading this download the mmslp book linked to below. Don't order it, download it now at amazon.com.

Re the diary, keep it, she said she wrote it for you. BTW, get in touch with the company and see if the date on it corresponds with its manufacture.

Any time she says something to you say no, that's not OK. If she tells you she wants/ needs something, tell her she fired you from that job, tell her to call one of her boyfriends. If she wants a dollar make her go to a judge to get it. Show her you found your balls.

I understand divorce is disgraceful in India, use that to your advantage. We've built houses for Indian couples, none of those men would tolerate any of the things you've posted.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> legaleagle,
> 
> Sometimes life just sucks and there is no good explanation. I know it's hard to understand. It just is.
> 
> ...


I think he should move on too. Rather than walk the trail of broken tears he should walk with his head held high and leave some wreckage behind him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Johnconrad said:


> Doormats aren't attractive.


I dunno, man... this one is pretty damn nice...


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I dunno, man... this one is pretty damn nice...


I bought this one last year. Had to have it.











end t/j


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> It really is ok to feel the pain of a lost relationship. You pretty much need to feel it before you can do any kind of a healing recovery.
> Consider contacting your MD and discuss meds for depression. Ending a relationship is a huge life event and it would be expected that you would feel some type of depression because of it.
> But also go out to the gym. Exercise can help you feel better. There are the endorphins, and the knowing you are doing something just for you. Lord knows you've earned it.


You will be proud of me, I did not contact her all day yesterday and all day today. Nothing no calls no texts. 

She sent me one text last night "have a happy new year" I did not respond. In my head when I got that I was thinking really? wtf? What is so happy about it? It pissed me off. I did not respond.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You will go through the grief cycle, and go through some of the phases more than once. One day you may feel angry and indignant. The next day you may feel grief , only to go back to anger the next day again. Ever seen a drug addict? They will loathe the drug sometimes, and still crave it even though they know it is causing them harm. Sounds familiar right. You hate what she is doing to you, but you cannot help but want her at the moment. Love is a hard addiction to quit.

That is why people will recommend working out, keeping busy, and focusing on friends, family, hobbies, and learning to be an individual again. You have to work it out of your system. Like a drug, you do want to avoid another hit, so you have to cut her from your presence as much as possible. The less the bond is fed, the faster it fades.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I am going to do some counseling next week on my own. I need to talk to a professional about this. It was suggested I get something to deal with the depression because I have not been able to work at all this whole last week. I have not talked about this to anyone expect two good friends and sharing here.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Start working out if you haven't already..Really helps with the situation


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> So it is either a fabrication or a copy. Was each entry witting the in same pen/ink? or were different ones used? Is it all in the same hand writing?


It is all in the same handwriting with penmanship that I don't recognize. Same pen / ink on all entries. Maybe it is a handwritten copy of something written before? Like a transcription?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Are you filing for separation/divorce? It may feel empowering to be the one to file first. It will also be a clear sign to your WW that you have had enough of her shenanigans.

Good for you to go to counseling! That's a very positive step. Listen to warlock7 and go workout. It really will help.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Are you filing for separation/divorce? It may feel empowering to be the one to file first. It will also be a clear sign to your WW that you have had enough of her shenanigans.
> 
> Good for you to go to counseling! That's a very positive step. Listen to warlock7 and go workout. It really will help.


Yes. I have been discussing the situation with my family law attorney (close friend). We will be filing shortly. He told me to keep a lid on getting angry and it will save me a lot of money in the long run so we can go through the process as quickly as possible without racking up a lot of legal bills. He wants to work it out by agreement, not dragging it out through court.

I did not get the rest of my stuff last week, in the remote chance we would reconcile. But that is not going to happen. She has shown no remorse, no apology, not even asked where I am staying. For all she knows I could be staying in a motel. I will need to get the rest of my personal stuff. I lived there along time, so that is going to be a process. 

I am staying with my mom in her spare bedroom/den. I don't have enough income to go through this divorce and get my own place for a long time. Furthermore, I don't think I want to live alone right now.

I have started to walk a couple times a day. But I am not going to lie. The depression is overwhelming at times. I cry sometimes. All my friends and even a few of hers think she was being inappropriate and they don't even know all the gory details.

Also, now that I am faced with how much money this is going to cost me because of the laws in this state. it may have been cheaper to put up with her cheating but do my own thing. But it was burning me up and I would have probably gone crazy.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Try for an agreement, it is always cheaper than going to court. FWIW, I would give up things in favor of long-term security like retirement. Things can always be replaced, and on your terms, when you are ready.
Your mom is great for letting you stay. I'm sure this will make it much easier to build some savings for your new independence.
Force yourself to walk, it will help. I also took up meditating to help with the anxiety and that seemed to help me-but everyone is different. Keep posting, there are a lot of experienced folks on her that can offer lots of different perspectives.

And no, you would not have survived long letting her cheat and trying to emulate that behavior. If you could have lived that way you wouldn't be suffering now-because you have character.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Update:
I had major anxiety late last night. I called one of my good friends and just talking helped a lot.

This morning, I actually got some work done.

I went to the house again with a friend to get more things while she was gone. I did get emotional. All those memories in the house. We had a beautiful home with lots of memories. Birthdays, Christmas gatherings, Easters. Very sad. Crying. Missing her. Missing our cat. ( I fed her while I was there) And mad at why she would throw away such a life together?

Is it normal to miss your spouse even under these circumstances?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Expose the affair! 4 years is a very Long Term Affair (LTA).


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Update:
> I had major anxiety late last night. I called one of my good friends and just talking helped a lot.
> 
> This morning, I actually got some work done.
> ...


You grow attached. You adapt to a bad situation and learn to like some aspects and value them. Let them all well up, but understand that it is natural. Romantic relationships are selfish, we want someone to help and for them to be helped by us as that is what we want (as well as more obviously selfish things). That desire has been denied you and it is natural to be upset. 

Allow the emotions to come, but try not to take them seriously as more than just emotions. If you can be brave through this, by which I mean accept it will be painful, you will be a fine example of a man.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

If this had happened to me with my XW now, I would have filed the moment I found the diary.

But it happened 18 months ago roughly - XW left me for another man. It hurts, but it gets better.

I was a doormat, women don't respect doormats, they walk all over them.

All these guys are right - stop supporting her, stay no contact, stop giving her money, stop helping her out, do nothing for her. 

Do things for you, counselling, join a gym, work out, eventually socialise and so on. Stick to the 180, read MMSLP as suggested already.

You'll be a whole different man by the end of it all.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Today was the first day I woke up without anxiety. I actually got some work done and was feeling much improved. I actually felt like I would not take her back even if she begged me. I am starting to gather all the necessary documents so that the paperwork can be prepared to file. Still no apology from her, so I have to move forward. 
One day she will realize that she messed this up and could have had the good life with someone that actually cared.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Update:
> I had major anxiety late last night. I called one of my good friends and just talking helped a lot.
> 
> This morning, I actually got some work done.
> ...


Take the cat back w/ you.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

legaleagle said:


> I actually felt like I would not take her back even if she begged me.


This is good - this is how the progression begins.

Don't count on the feeling lasting. One day you may feel like this, the next you may desperately want her back, over time, it becomes two days you don't want her, one day you do, then three days and one, four days and one and so on. 

It's not quite that linear but you get the idea.



> Still no apology from her, so I have to move forward.
> One day she will realize that she messed this up and could have had the good life with someone that actually cared.


This is not so good.

You're wanting her to realise her mistake and feel the regret. Many don't feel this at all. More importantly though, this shows you're still focused on her.

Focus on what you want to feel yourself, not what you want her to feel. Focus on *you*.

The only person you can control is you. The only feelings you can control are yours. Why waste time dwelling on things beyond your control?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your lawyer may be a friend but it sounds like he's going to get you hosed. What state do you live in?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't hold your breath for that apology. Mine left in 2012, divorced in 2013 and no apology, or words of regret have sprung from his mouth. It happens. Some WS either can't face that they are at fault, so its just not in them to have the strength to apologize for their misdeeds. Other WS hold steadfast to the belief that the BS caused the problems in the first place. Rubbish. You didn't make her cheat or betray you that was her choice.

The standard TAM line is that "both parties share in the problems of the marriage, but the WS is 100% responsible for the affair." [practical applications of this premise may vary]. So even if you were at fault for neglecting her while you worked the long hours to earn the money to buy the trinkets for her desired lifestyle, she chose to handle that problem by running to another man. 

And I'd get the cat, too.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Your lawyer may be a friend but it sounds like he's going to get you hosed. What state do you live in?


He has a very good reputation in this area. What state? Without going into specifics it is one of the worst states in that it is no fault (meaning adultery does not matter) everything is split 50/50 and lifetime support.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Very Sad today. I am at work but cannot focus. I was a lot better yesterday.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> He has a very good reputation in this area. What state? Without going into specifics it is one of the worst states in that it is no fault (meaning adultery does not matter) everything is split 50/50 and lifetime support.


Sounds like California.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

NM seems to be the same. We can make our own agreement, if possible, but if not, everything is split down the middle. Also even if I reject any support, I can always ask for it at any time later. It is a community property state.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> Very Sad today. I am at work but cannot focus. I was a lot better yesterday.


hang in there. I'm sorry to say it is a roller-coaster for a while. But you will notice those low point are further and further apart. Go easy on yourself. You are going though a lot.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> hang in there. I'm sorry to say it is a roller-coaster for a while. But you will notice those low point are further and further apart. Go easy on yourself. You are going though a lot.


Thank you.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Today I am going about the business of changing my address for bills, gathering documents, etc. I still have the vast majority of my personal stuff there at the house.

My question for you all is: Should I send her a message saying something to the effect of:

Let me know by the end of the weekend if you want me to completly vacate our house?

I want to shock her to let her know that this is going to be over and we are headed down that road and there is no coming back. I did call her earlier this week when she contacted me regarding a home maintenance issue (I took care of all of that when we were together) and tried to talk about our marriage situation, but she became very upset and hung up on me.

I am starting to accept the reality of the situation I am in. But I feel that once I completely move out and file there will be no going back to her on my part ever. 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

legaleagle said:


> My question for you all is: Should I send her a message saying something to the effect of:
> 
> Let me know by the end of the weekend if you want me to completly vacate our house?
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


NOPE. You can say something along the lines of "I need to know what is a good time on >whatever day< for me to come and get the rest of my things from the house." 

DO NOT ASK HER WHAT SHE WANTS. That looks weak!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Do not beg, you've put up with too much already.

Look at your schedule and determine when you want to get your things. If you want to be polite, send her a text to the effect that you will be at the house on such-and-such a date and time to get your things. She can be there or not.

Don't ask to talk about the relationship, don't ask how she's doing, don't ask about her health. Ask about the cat.

I know this seems hard and slightly cold and it probably wasn't the way you would have behaved before all this. Its part of the 180. You aren't mean, but you don't engage. You go about your business as though you don't have a care in the world. Its horribly difficult at first. But it helps you. You become more independent and less needy in her eyes. This may or may not change her opinion of you but I promise it will make it easier to deal with her as time goes on.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Do not beg, you've put up with too much already.
> 
> Look at your schedule and determine when you want to get your things. If you want to be polite, send her a text to the effect that you will be at the house on such-and-such a date and time to get your things. She can be there or not.
> 
> ...


I have never done drugs or alcohol, but I think I am going through was an addict goes through trying to stop.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If it helps. Attachments, romance, and lust is deeply tied to the addiction part of your brain. Logically, you cannot believe that you could be in love with such a cold hearted person. But love is illogical, just like any other addictions. When your on the high of love, everything is going well, but it is the withdrawal that causes pain. The deeper the love, the more you can suffer.

View your love for your wife as an addiction that your trying to kick. Some days you will crave it, and other days you will be fine. Look up how a person kicks an addiction, and follow some of those steps.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I had a episode of extreme sadness today. And I think it is what you call backsliding. I went to the house again to get more of my things when she was not there. When I went inside I was shocked. All the pictures are down off the walls the furniture is rearranged. Many new decorations on wall. She took over my space in the closet. 
*Honestly it looked like I walked into the home that did not belong to me. *  I have only been gone a bit over two weeks now and it looks like she is erasing me from the home, like I never existed. 

I became extremely sad and called her to see if we could work it out. She said what she has said in the past that it is over, but I could come back but we would not work on anything in the marriage, and to stay clear of her.
It is very hard to convey to you who is reading this has extremely sad and upsetting it was for me. I know everybody is telling me things like:
1. Stay strong
2. Accept it an move on

Being a person who has made his way in life as an expert problem solver. I just cannot figure out why on earth this is happening to me and why I cannot fix it. I am a good person. I don't deserve to be punished like this. She has really messed me up. I took care of her and protected her and gave her a good life. Why God, why would this woman disconnect from me and leave marriage like this?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*No offense, Legaleagle, but get used to it! She doesn't give a tinker's damn about you anymore! Move on and get this nightmarish episode fastly behind you. Finish getting the balance of your belongings out of there and don't ever go back over there. Extricate yourself from all of that needless pain that she seems so glad to have put you through.

Move on! There's a woman out there who will absolutely love you for who you are! But get out of this mess first!*


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *No offense, Legaleagle, but get used to it! She doesn't give a tinker's damn about you anymore! Move on and get this nightmarish episode fastly behind you. Finish getting the balance of your belongings out of there and don't ever go back over there. Extricate yourself from all of that needless pain that she seems so glad to have put you through.
> 
> Move on! There's a woman out there who will absolutely love you for who you are! But get out of this mess first!*


It's time to go bAlls to the wall and expose her behavior... after you move back in.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you tell her family about her affair?


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

"Being a person who has made his way in life as an expert problem solver. I just cannot figure out why on earth this is happening to me and why I cannot fix it. I am a good person. I don't deserve to be punished like this. She has really messed me up. I took care of her and protected her and gave her a good life. Why God, why would this woman disconnect from me and leave marriage like this?"

Many, if not all of us men, are wired like this in one way or another. The problem is, if you keep thinking like this, you will drive yourself crazy. This is a problem that has no fix. It is not logical, or rational. It just is. Leave it be. It wont happen overnight, and may even take years to overcome that feeling completely. That is what the 180 is for. YOU. 

You are feeling the fear of loss, and the illusion of control of your world view. Forget it. Exercise the only control you have. YOU. This is an opportunity to change that for yourself. Get selfish, and stop giving away the most precious commodity you have. Yourself.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, but have you taken a look at 

No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover


Many betrayed men have gotten help from this book. I do understand. You want to fix the situation, take care of her, make it all better. In your attempts to do this, you are losing the man you are-and driving her further away.

You have tried to be understanding and supportive of her, and it hasn't worked. Logically, you should know that trying the same approach again will not work. Time to try a different approach.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Legaleagle,
As someone who has practiced law for years, I can tell you that its one thing to be able to manage other people's problems vs. your own. When you solve other's problems, we are detached and logical. When it comes to our own matters, well, we are not that good when it involves emotions. Suddenly, our logical minds are taken over by our hearts and we are pitiful. We suck at it. No shame in that. Hell, the adage "he who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a client" is based on that premise. Pick yourself up.

Now, the good news. You have to get your legal mind back involved. Just because you want an outcome does not mean that you will get it. I tell client's that all of the time. Tell that to yourself. Metaphorically speaking, the law and the facts are not on your side and the judge has asked the other side to draft an order for them to sign, and there is no ground for appeal. What would you tell a client? Time to plan for the future.

It is time for you to convince yourself why this relationship is not worth anymore of your heart. From now on, no thought of reconciling will go unchallenged. No feelings of needing to give it another try will be allowed to circulate without you convincingly destroying them with reason. It is not her that needs to be convinced why this should continue, it is you that needs to be convinced why this union should never be revisited.

In short, your biggest case is happening inside of you. Your heart and the "reality" that it wants vs your mind and the "reality" that is and will be. You represent your mind. Get to work. We are skilled at detaching. Start doing it.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

bigfoot said:


> Legaleagle,
> As someone who has practiced law for years, I can tell you that its one thing to be able to manage other people's problems vs. your own. When you solve other's problems, we are detached and logical. When it comes to our own matters, well, we are not that good when it involves emotions. Suddenly, our logical minds are taken over by our hearts and we are pitiful. We suck at it. No shame in that. Hell, the adage "he who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a client" is based on that premise. Pick yourself up.
> 
> Now, the good news. You have to get your legal mind back involved. Just because you want an outcome does not mean that you will get it. I tell client's that all of the time. Tell that to yourself. Metaphorically speaking, the law and the facts are not on your side and the judge has asked the other side to draft an order for them to sign, and there is no ground for appeal. What would you tell a client? Time to plan for the future.
> ...


Thank you for the advice and support.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

You are doing well. When you write, it is clear that you see sadness as something that goes through your mind and that is a very approach. It is going to be very tough, but I can see you coming through this OK.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Did you tell her family about her affair?


No I have not. 1. My lawyer said not to. 2. I think they have figured it out anyway with all her Facebook posts over they last couple of years about this guy.



bigfoot said:


> From now on, no thought of reconciling will go unchallenged. No feelings of needing to give it another try will be allowed to circulate without you convincingly destroying them with reason.


Very well said.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> No I have not. 1. My lawyer said not to. 2. I think they have figured it out anyway with all her Facebook posts over they last couple of years about this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Very well said.


That's a first. Never heard of a lawyer giving out that kind of advice. He must think divorce was the only option.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> That's a first. Never heard of a lawyer giving out that kind of advice. He must think divorce was the only option.


What purpose would exposing her to all her friends and family have?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposure to family and friends often breaks up the affair. Affairs like the dark. Once it's out a lot of the excitement disappears. Few cheaters want people to know what they ha e done.


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> That's a first. Never heard of a lawyer giving out that kind of advice. He must think divorce was the only option.


Sounds ridiculous to me. I suppose lawyers get paid whether their clients make waves or not.

It bothers me when cheaters break the hearts of their partners and the partners don't think enough of themselves to stand up.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Not to threadhjack, but exposing seems like a move made to win the cheater back. it is recommended to end the affair and wake them up, and I understand that school of thought, but that is only if you really, for some reason, just want to try to drag the carcass of your marriage back to your home. 

If exposure could damage his case in anyway, whether it cost her her job or made him look too vindictive so as to turn off the judge, then it is sound legal advice to forego exposure. I have advised client's that moral victories don't pay, but legal ones do.

I think once the paper work is dry, custody is set, alimony and property divisions done, then expose to everyone. It would take a long time before a judge would try to change any of those things after having just disposed of the case. it is all about strategy.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Lots of people are suggesting here that you go ahead and file for divorce. You haven't done that yet have you? Why not?

She has told you and is telling that she is done. Believe her.

As bigfoot says, this is an issue for you to work out against yourself now. You are miserable. You are having anxiety attacks (there are meds for that if they keep up...are you able to eat? Losing weight? metallic taste in your mouth? can you sleep more than a few hours without waking up?) You are obsessing over her. You can only go a few days at most without contact, despite trying the 180. Your life is in shambles. Your body is rebelling against you (anxiety). Your thoughts and emotions are on a roller coaster. Almost every body here has been through this. I have been too. 

And all of us can say, it gets better. The first step, in your case, is to get a lawyer and file for divorce. Don't be afraid of the future. There is no where to go but up from the wreckage. But you have to leave it behind and start out with a new life. File for divorce. Don't drag it out. It has already been too long (years now it seems).

What are you doing to better yourself? Working out? What about friends? Make contact with old ones. Get out and make some new ones. What about hobbies? Anything you have wanted to do or learn but have not had time to do it? No better time than now. Are you in IC? It would help greatly.

You can come out of this a better stronger person, and your life will be good and happy. You'll need to take some steps though. Start bettering yourself. And get the legal process going. Your marriage is over. Let go. You'll be glad you did before long.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

How are you holding up LegalEagle?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> How are you holding up LegalEagle?


Thank you for asking. Also thanks to all the replies above.

Task of getting my stuff out:
I have not been dragging my feet on filing for the divorce. I have been advised to get all of my personal belongings out of the home. This has been a big ordeal, as I have lived there since 2001 and I have lots of stuff (files, hobby equipment, tools, a very well organized garage, car restoration project, and I had a very well equipped home office (that allowed me to work from home and not to have to go into my public office most days). You could say that I was very well situated in that house. 

I am not taking any of the household furnishings, just my personal things. I have filled one storage unit that is the size of a two car garage and I will rent another unit next week. My lawyer says that once the balance of my things are off the premises, then we can proceed with the next step. He has seen wives in messy divorces have a garage sale and sell off their husband’s stuff in anger. This will not happen to me and I won’t let that happen. This stuff makes me happy and I will get it setup eventually somewhere else. She does not know this yet, but my lawyer says we will have to sell the house. I could probably refi it to buy her share out, but I don’t want to live there anymore (too many memories) 

I have had to contact her to coordinate when to remove my items. I don’t want to be there when she is there and she does not want to be there either. Also, I only go with a friend because it hurts too much to go alone. When you take into account the scheduling, amount of stuff and always bringing a friend with me, this is taking more time than a move out under normal circumstances. My friends have been really helpful and supportive. 

How I have been doing personally:
In Short, not good. Lately, I have been mad, really mad that I have had to disrupt my life and haul all my things out. What a monumental waste of my time.  

This is also messing me up with my work. i can’t keep up and my business parter has been so good in taking up the slack for me. We are friends from college (over 25 years). He can’t handle everything so we are referring new cases out to another friend right now until this gets settled down.

Having said that i am angry, I also have moments a very bad sadness. Crying. Missing the good times with her. I got weak last week and called her to talk about how much disruption all of this will cause to our lives, and our finances. She did not care. She has made up her mind. She was very mean and angry when I discussed going to talk with someone together. Her selfishness is amazing. Not that I want to go back to that, just avoid this financial turmoil this will cause. That being said, I am done with her and her mistreatment of me and all of this chaos she is causing me to endure.
I want to get this behind me, I understand it will take a while, but I am starting to see that my life will be better once this circus is over.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your not going to get the validation of what your going through from her. I know you want her to see what she is doing, but her vision is narrow at this point. I wouldn't tell her about the house sale either, just spring it on her. She does not need your consideration. You should be focus on you. We do not have much power or control over our own life as we like to believe we have, but whatever we do possess, we should use it to make investments in ourselves. You can change your mindset, you have some control over your reactions, and you do have some control over your environment. Just use the control you do possess to make life more fulfilling for yourself. Learn to take back more of your life. I am a survivor of physical and emotional abuse. I have attempted suicide a few times, and the first was at age 10. I had to learn to not let the anger, resentment, and my low self-worth control me. I had to find value in myself. I was self-destructive, and the only people it hurt was me, and the people that cared about me. I put them through pain as well Easier said than done, I know..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mr. Fisty, you should have your own advice column. You could start it in the private members section. You give some of the best advice on TAM.


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## Overat50 (Jan 26, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> You need to be your own individual person, which you are not. Your clingy and very needy, not exactly an attractive quality. Your whole world should not revolve around your wife. You have to know that you are a separate entity from her. Your still too attached, and until you detach enough, you will find some clarity. You would think to yourself, why did I let someone else dictate my value. I have good qualities that someone will cherish. And you will realize that the reality is your wife is an dishonest,selfish person. Those qualities after you detach enough, you find you do not want in a wife. Just work on your weaknesses.[/QUOTE
> 
> Im in this boat. Been married 22 years. Moved every 3 years so husband could move up career ladder. My identity became him and his work. 2 mos ago he say same thing, I love you but am moving out. Is hard. I suffer. But this is a true thing.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Overat50 said:


> Mr.Fisty said:
> 
> 
> > You need to be your own individual person, which you are not. Your clingy and very needy, not exactly an attractive quality. Your whole world should not revolve around your wife. You have to know that you are a separate entity from her. Your still too attached, and until you detach enough, you will find some clarity. You would think to yourself, why did I let someone else dictate my value. I have good qualities that someone will cherish. And you will realize that the reality is your wife is an dishonest,selfish person. Those qualities after you detach enough, you find you do not want in a wife. Just work on your weaknesses.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

LegalEagle, its actually a good thing that you are getting angry. Go back to your first post, there was no anger over the manner in which you were being treated. I suppose having to go through the physical process of moving out is what you needed. It hurts, no doubt, but this is something you have to go through as part of the healing process.

She will not work on the relationship. She will not work on her-at least not with you knowing about it. Either one of those scenarios would require her to acknowledge her faults, and if she did that, she'd lose the ability to try to blame you. 

You can make it up to your partner once you get your footing back.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I am so upset and mad. Getting my stuff out is so frustrating that I have to do this. I was trying to find my checkbook and some bills today, but I could not find them because everything is disorganized right now. There are so many other things I could be spending my time on. 

On top of it, she is sending me messages asking me to do some things around the house (change light bulbs, etc.) If I had all my stuff I would totally ignore her but I don't want to have her hold my belongings hostage. I feel like I am negotiating with a terrorist. 

Little does she know that her life is going to be changing soon. She is comfortable in our house, while I am camped out here in my mom's den. I am really mad about what she is doing to me. And I also know what this term gas lighting is. She is doing it to me for sure. 

What kind of sick person would do such a thing? Oh and it gets worse, she ran up credit cards in the three months before we split to the tune of $7,000. This is a nightmare.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

You are experiencing "trauma". Read the Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered (in my signature below). Take it one day at a time. Also read what you need to on affaircare.com and affairrecovery.com. When you feel anxious, take 10 deep breaths. We all made it through this, you will too. Your first R failed, don't try it again, it was a false R and your marriage can never go from being fake to genuine.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

We'll today I made several trips from the house and the storage center. I am sorting my stuff into three categories:
1. Keep for storage 
2. Donate
3. Trash

I figure it is best to sort it now at the house instead of putting it all in storage. I am not going to rush this because I am doing this on my own terms. I'm tired of rushing for other people, especially her. . I am thinning out a lot of stuff. I don't want to be a pack rat. 

I was there alone today, she was at work. I got to hangout with the cat for a while today. I think she misses me because each time I have been back to the house she is sitting on my side of the bed and she never sat there. 

I noticed my wife was low on cat food and I consumed several bottles of water and soda today. So when I was done there for the day I went down to the grocery store to get cat food, water and soda. 

When I returned my wife was there and I was going to leave but I figured it is my house too so I knocked and announced myself. I thought she would blow me out of there. I have not seen her in 5 weeks. She said I thought you left and I said I did but I brought cat food back and water and soda. She said thank you and she told me that she did not want to talk. I told her that I was not there to talk just drop this off. She said thanks and I used the bathroom and I left. She was really cold and indifferent. I held it together really good while I was there. 

Not going to lie though when I got in the car I started balling. 

And this sad saga continues....


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your still acting like a partner to her, which is a habit you have to kick. Your too focus on her needs, and no matter how angry you are, your still trying to look after her. As your thinking about her, and focusing on her, who is making you a priority. You having been living your life around her's. You need help in the self-worth department. Time to focus on your good qualities, and try and limit your flaws. Your very intuitive of others need, just not your own. Time to be selfish and that is something you have to learn.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'd take the cat.
You did well by holding it together until you were outside. Sometimes the best you can do is pretending to be detached from her. The time will come when you won't have to pretend and when you will go out to your car and not fall apart.
It's a process.
Start by not buying her groceries, even if you did consume some.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Yea, too polite about the groceries.

Pets are one of the facets of breakups. I can understand fondness for animals that two persons have had together. Sometimes, when a spouse who has been dumped or cheated on faces NC, it may be best to be cryptic about the pet, which after all is not a child and need not have any custody plan.

"The cat? Got rid of it," you say and push it off your lap to make the statement literally true. Let the person who has rejected feel the same medicine.

"I still have the cat? Sure, I changed my mind, went to the woods and found it."

End of conversation.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

It is so hard and so sad. But we recover. Give it time. You still have feelings which means you are alive and have a warm heart. Rejoice in that, as simple as it is. You will find that there is so much more out there to be grateful for rather than a horrible spouse, such as : the trees, the shades of green, the shades of the sky, the breeze...Enjoy everything natural. Life is worth living and much more exhilirating without a pathetic loser.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Almost done with the move out. What a job! I tried to start my spare car up and of course the battery was dead because it was sitting there for 5 weeks. 

I am felling a lot better and I am sleeping through the whole night. It has been 5 weeks and I don't really miss her much at all anymore. This is just a business transaction now. 

One day I will write a book about this.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I am having a really bad day today. Very Sad. Hard to stay focused. Depressed. Crying Sometimes.  I am almost done with the moving. I probably have three more trips to go. Each time I go to the house and I am there for a while my mind tricks me into thinking everything is ok. But then reality kicks in when I drive away. I feel like a storm evacuee that has been displace from their home and on top of it I lost my wife. 

I don't think these spouses that decide to walk away from their marriages contemplate how much harm they cause for their selfish pursuits. 

There is no such thing as a perfect marriage, perfect wife or husband and the whole duration of the marriage will not be constant rainbows and gummy bears. But the test of a good marriage is one that is a partnership between two people who can ride out the bad times and be supportive of the other. I was under constant financial pressure trying to keep my business afloat and keep money coming in during the recession, but her spending did not reduce.

It was a horrible cycle where I had to work harder to make less money yet trying to get her to reduce spending was like holding back a team of horses that wanted to charge ahead. And since I had to work more, I was unable to spend time with her that gave her the opportunity to start chatting with those indian guys on the internet, become friends with them and ultimately decide to travel to see them and do whatever she ended up doing. underline was edited

What horrible constant abuse I had to endure. Statements like "What do you mean we can't start on remodeling the bathroom, last summer you SAID WE COULD start in the fall!!! THAT IS LIKE TELLING A KID YOU WILL TAKE THEM TO DISNEYLAND AND BACKING OUT AT THE LAST MINUTE!" 

My response, yes I said that we could do it, but business is really slow right now, which I did not anticipate, and you just charged your 3rd trip to India on our card. So if we want to do the remodel now, I will have to pull the money out of our retirement or put it on a visa card, which is ridiculous so we will have to wait. 

Now just to let everybody know on here, I have been walking around with a cracked tooth for a while now. It does not hurt, but I need to get it taken care of. The timing belt on my car (a $1,500 job) is due, which I have been putting off and could destroy my engine if it breaks. Yet she has no problem with taking a trip to India that departed on Nov 1 and returned Dec 10 (edited - she just returned a few weeks ago).  Which was thousands of dollars, that I had to pay for. I told her about that I needed to get those things done. Her response: I'm stopping you from doing that!

I swear she has no concept of a budget. I would not wish this ordeal on my worst enemy.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

legaleagle said:


> There is no such thing as a perfect marriage, perfect wife or husband and the whole duration of the marriage will not be constant rainbows and gummy bears. *But the test of a good marriage is one that is a partnership between two people who can ride out the bad times and be supportive of the other. * I was under constant financial pressure trying to keep my business afloat and keep money coming in during the recession, but her spending did not reduce.


LE, I know you are sad. But seriously, you need to start focusing on HOW LUCKY you are to be getting this awful woman out of your life (well, soon, anyway...) Look at what she has done to you, really look at it. You are SO much better off on your own, you really are. I mean, the woman ran off to India to be with other men....GROSS. What disgusting behavior, and what a disgusting thing to do to your life partner. 

You mentioned a good marriage in the quote above...you did not have a good marriage. She made sure of that. 

You are going to feel so much better once you are done moving. You will feel purged, and it will really feel like a new beginning for you.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your trying to squeeze empathy from a person who probably ranks high on a narcissist scale. She is not simply wife material, and love does not care about our partner's flaws at times. Sometimes we end up with people who will never work out in nearly any relationships. Unfortunately, you ended up with a lemon for a wife.

Don't forget, being selfish occasionally is good for you. Case in point. My aunt left her drug addict of a husband, and only looked after herself and my cousins. She did not really care at that point to remain with him. Each situation is different. To be honest, you should of been the one to leave your wife, and one of the things you will have to figure out is, why did I stay for someone like that? There are people out there who stay in a miserable marriage for their whole life, not finding fulfillment, and leaving this world with many regrets. You should be selfish for your own sake at times. Just do not over do it like your wife. There has to be a balance in life of being selfish, and giving.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Imagine how your life would be five or ten years from now if you didn't leave. Would you be happy? Would you have any retirement savings left? Would your tooth still need fixing? My guess is that the answer to these would all be no, and most importantly you would not be happy.

This was not a good marriage. Her behavior indicates that she doesn't have the maturity to be in a real relationship. And no she gave no consideration to you, probably not during the entire marriage. This isn't how its supposed to be. You understand that, and you deserve that support and consideration.

And why are you funding her trip? Get the papers filed to severe your finances. So you pay her support, oh well. That will be her entire budget and how she ends up doing everything she wants will be her problem.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your trying to squeeze empathy from a person who probably ranks high on a narcissist scale.


Do you think she was a narcissit and I did not realize it?



Pluto2 said:


> And why are you funding her trip? Get the papers filed to severe your finances. So you pay her support, oh well. That will be her entire budget and how she ends up doing everything she wants will be her problem.


All of you are so right and I am not paying for any future trips. No Way. Not going to happen. The trip I mentioned in my last post was a trip she already took in November-December 2014 that was charged on our card last summer. There will be no further charges and like you said, I will have to pay her support and what she does with it is up to her. 

Will keep you posted...


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Love is blind is an apt saying. People are nothing more than illusionary constructs that we have created to deal with them in the real world. It is actually us that place attributes on that construct either logically or illogically. You ever see one of those parents, where their child murders another person, but no matter what the evidence shows, they will or cannot accept that reality. To them, their child is an innocent angel, while the evidence may prove that they are a sociopath. Same idea. Well, love is a drug that alters our perception of reality. People get married to narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, and people with other disorders all the time. Usually, when they have enough, or if they are detach enough, and someone points out the traits that show their disorder, does the puzzles fall into place.

The fact that she thinks you owe her something, she lacks empathy for you, demands things from you, and it is about how others make her feel, shows she is at least somewhat more narcissist than your normal person. She sounds spoiled. We all have narcissist tendencies, some just have more than others, and some have certain traits to a higher degree. Narcissist rarely do take blame if ever. Just keep detaching and watch how you cannot believe that you misjudge the type of person she is, if you have not already.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

The move out is done. Two trucks, two cargo trailers, myself, my business partner and an old friend. We got it all done today( Saturday) All my stuff is in storage now. 

I don't ever have to go back to that horror again.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

This is a major step!
Take those good buddies out to dinner.
Your ship will soon start to right itself.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I went away to Las Vegas Saturday night and Sunday with two friends from college that LITERALLY dragged me out of my mom's place. I really was in no mood to go and tired from moving all day on Saturday, but I'm glad that they took me. It was nice to get out of town for a little bit and it was nice to talk with them about it in the car ride there. They both know my wife for years and have traveled with us on several occasions.

Today, I am having trouble with dealing with:

1. Guilt of what I may have done wrong in the marriage
2. Acceptance of the situation that I am in

I have been doing a lot of thinking about what I have done wrong that allowed our marriage to get to this point. I remember that she told me that I was not there for her to talk to her when she needed me and that her shopping and talking with those guys helped fill the void she had. I really don't remember ignoring her when she wanted to talk, so I have a hard time believing that.

She also said that since I worked from home some days that it ruined my marriage. She said that it made her feel uncomfortable. She also said that it hurt her when I was at my office away from home that if I did not take her telephone call it would hurt her. I do remember her telling me that working from home bothered her on several occasions over the years. I am a self employed professional that has a lot of flexibilty when it comes to my work scheduled. I do a lot of reading, research, writing and talk with clients on the phone.

Sometimes, I like to stay up late and do my work. Other times I would do it during the day. She felt like she had to worry about being loud in the house which I did not have a problem with, but sometimes I would shut my door. I remember her saying work should stay at work. The problem with that is that if an idea on how to solve a problem pops into my head while I'm at home I shouldn't have to drive down to the office to write about it. My wife was a hairdresser and now works as a receptionist at a med/spa. I don't think she understood, even after all these years that if I tried to box my creativity into a traditional work environment only down at the office away from home, that would have a negative effect on my work production. In no way am I a workaholic, but the lines sometimes where blurred. For example, I might be out in the backyard doing some yard work while thinking about a problem I have been trying to solve for work and the solution finally pops into my head so I go over to my home office room and write it down or call a colleage to discuss it.

I am trying to figure this out, I am having a lot of guilt, not that it will help in this marriage that is over, but so I don't make any mistakes in a future marriage with someone else. I am having guilt about any harm that I may have caused to contribute to the situation. Now I know that what she did was not acceptable behavior. And further it was cruel for her to make up a fake diary (fake or real I'll never know) for me to find to get me upset to leave.

So my question is where a spouse who works from home based upon the facts above, is that something that could harm a marriage?

I just did not see the harm in it. And I thought that it was a real perk to have the work flexibility that I had. Need a day off. done. Need to visit her sick aunt at a moments notice. done. When her best friend's husband suddenly died halfway across the county, we boarded the next flight out of the local airport. done. I considered myself lucky to have the ability to support us in that manner, instead of having to report into an office under a boss from 9-5. I always told her, if I had a regular job and had to do things like that, I would be fired. However, She did tell me on several occasions over the years that my work from home bothered her. Maybe I was selfish.

I am also, having a lot of trouble accepting this situation that I am in. Is that normal? I wake up and before I am completely awake I think everything is normal, but then reality kicks in. Is something wrong with me? 

I am having a hard time accepting that I will no longer be in my house and my relationship with my wife is over and I have no say so in the matter. This is very troubling for me.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't buy into the blame game. Cheaters want you to carry all the guilt and that's wrong. There may well have been things you did or didn't do that contributed to some stress in the marriage but NONE of it, not one single thing justified her betrayal.

So she says you weren't there for her *was that before or after she started the affair?*

She wanted you there for her, but she didn't want you there at home when you needed to work, to make the money she wanted to have. So she wanted you .... gone... to work, but to be there for her..... and to make the money.....
It really sounds like she's not thought this out.

The criticism that one spouse works too much is a common and valid complaint in lots of marriages. It can often be fixed by effective communication and some creative scheduling, like setting up scheduled time together, giving a spouse 10 or 15 minutes of undivided check in time to talk as soon as you return from the job. etc. It is never, NEVER an excuse for an affair. 

Have you read much on co-dependency? I'm not qualified to say you are a co-dependent, but the belief that you are "responsible" for the demise of the marriage tends to fit that mold. Co-dependents like to control. Listen, I'm not saying you were a perfect husband, but it takes two people to make a marriage work. You are not responsible for her choice to go outside your relationship-she is. She's demonstrated some real immaturity on her part.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I get it legal, lack of any answers from her on her actions in the demise of the marriage you look inward to yourself and reflect about your actions in the marriage, and believe or not that is very therapeutic in the right conditions, and by that i mean to say with a therapist. Marriages do not dissolve in a vacuum it requires actions and inactions from both parties, and so yes on some level you contributed to pushing her away, but she equally had a hand in this as well, and it was in her pushing from you, from your marriage that lead her a stray. what you learn from this will be invaluable in your next relationship and there will be another relationship...and while you learned from this she probably will not. I can't answer your second question i happen to know several of my friends who work from home and their relationship have not faltered. i suspect that it would need to be reviewed on a case by case basis...generalizing will not help here. What you need to do for yourself is reach out to someone to talk to on a professional basis, work out your issues, become whole again. Keep a journal describing your journey, your feelings, it will help you and when you reach the other side of this, and you re-read your thoughts you will be amazed how much you have grown.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Don't buy into the blame game. Cheaters want you to carry all the guilt and that's wrong. There may well have been things you did or didn't do that contributed to some stress in the marriage but NONE of it, not one single thing justified her betrayal.
> 
> So she says you weren't there for her *was that before or after she started the affair?*
> I remember her complaining about the working from home from time to time years before she started talking with those guys. She started talking with the diary guy in the spring of 2010. However, a year later after she started talking with the diary guy on memorial day 2011 she threw me out, told me I was not there for her and she loved me but was not in love with me, and that I was not there for her to talk when she needed me. So this may just be an excuse she is using to blame me
> ...


I will look into that for sure. I don't know what terminology to put on this other than I have been suffering trauma and I was probably enabling her behavior by continuing to support her

My comments are underlined.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

She is making excuses as to why she has behaved so badly, in my opinion. And you are falling for it, feeling guilty and low, when she should be the one who feels guilty.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I need to figure out how to stop blaming myself for all of this.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I think that you believe that you are responsible for her actions. The marriage failed, thus you failed. You can only own the things that you have control over, and you did not have much control in this situation and how it all played out. Life is more about dealing with the things life throws our way. Too many variables play a role in whatever outcome. You have to accept the fact that we do not have much control as we believe that we have.

You do not have control over your wife's dysfunctions. You did not have a choice in her choosing infidelity, you cannot fix her, and you have to learn to accept those facts. I think what your struggling is with acceptance, and your trying to make sense of it all. It is natural that we second guess ourselves when things do not turn out the way we want.

Also, your love plays a role in why you feel the way you do. You took care of your wife, and in an odd sense, you feel responsible for the way she turns out. Same concept as children. When we care for anyone, we have this sense that how they turn out is a reflection of us. In reality, everyone has to own their own sh1t. Everyone has to deal with their own reality, and how they learn to cope or deal with it.

So, until you can learn to accept the reality that you are dealt with, you will continue to feel this way. You need to alter your perception. You did what you thought was best, given your circumstances. You only had the tools that you have learn to use and apply. Learn and accept that your wife is responsible for herself, and she is responsible for her actions. Life is complicated enough with being just responsible for ourselves.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Legaleagle, are you both Indian by origin? Was the money she brought to the marriage a dowry ?

How is it that she got to go to India without you ?

And why is the POSOM's world not blown up yet ? (in India)


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> *Legaleagle, are you both Indian by origin? *
> 
> No. We were both born here and have no Indian origin.
> 
> ...


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Question:

How do I handle friends that we have in common that I met through her? What about her family members? Should I delete them from my Facebook friend list? I have already set it so I don't have to see their posts, but they are still on my friends list. 

(She deleted all of my friends and family off of Facebook with the exception of my sister. :scratchhead: and she has liked some of her recent posts. My sister is very, very upset with what I was subjected to.)

I am trying to move on and put this behind me, but it is hard. I don't like change. I have only lived in two houses my whole life. My parent's house and the house I had/have with my stbxw.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If you stick to the truth I don't see why you don't expose the pos.
At this point nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Eventually, you will contact them and them less. They are more attach to her, and will likely have her back. They may not agree with her, but there is a loyalty factor there also. Plus, some will probably blame you for her affair, because they probably do not want to see her in a negative light. Some will stop contacting you because they do not want to be in the middle.

This is the time where you should make new friends, and have people who will support only you. Your pretty much creating a new life for yourself. When you divorce her, you pretty much divorce people associated with her. There are exceptions though, usually when people divorce cordially, sometimes they remain friends with their spouse's family. I can see this one getting contentious though.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The sooner you can get the house sold so that you can recover half the community property value, the better. She is horrible. It will be great for her to be out on her azz.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

A Couple of things:

1. It has taken me an entire 53 days to start to feel somewhat normal again for two days in a row. Meaning, I can actually concentrate on work without falling apart periodically. Hopefully this feeling sustains itself.

2. My friend/lawyer calls me tonight. He has a twisted sense of humor. He calls and says "hey do you want me to get my process server to wear a Turban when he goes to serve her the papers."



:rofl:


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Wicked humor.

As for the friends, well, it does work itself out. They will all know, eventually. My ex was all into FB, and met one of his OW on there. So when we split folks asked me what happened. I didn't hide his misdeeds so I told them. There was also lots of drama between he and our kids, and my kids would talk about it when they visited close friends' homes. (I don't believe in repressing hurt and that's how I raised my kids. They did nothing wrong and should not be made to feel bad about my marriage). So eventually everyone in our circle of friends knew about it. The ex responded by un-friending most of our joint friends and my family. Oddly, his family-mostly-still likes me and keeps in contact with the kids. 

As with everything else.. its a process.


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## loveSprite (Jan 5, 2015)

legaleagle said:


> I am very upset and this and the only relief is when I go to sleep.


Yep, that's my only relief too. It's been three months for me and I still take Zzzquil just to get to sleep ASAP when the depression comes on full throttle. 

I'm going through the same stuff my friend and also posted on this forum if you wanna read my story. Like your wife, my husband has showed nothing but rage since I found pics of his Harlot. We don't even talk about our relationship anymore. Well, he doesn't want to talk anyway, but every now and then I'll bring it up mildly. 

Many prayers to you my friend, and I hope you find peae. Here's my story link below if you want to read it, to let you know that you're NOT alone. Maybe reading it will show you how it can possibly play out once they're exposed. Right now, we're pretty much in limbo as he is NOT putting in any effort to make it work. On Valentines Day, he gave me nothing and so I withheld my romantic gift but gave him a brand new Bible, because these cheating spouses have nothing but pure evil to take it this far! Anywho, my link:

LoveSprite and the EA Spouse

-LoveSprite


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## loveSprite (Jan 5, 2015)

loveSprite said:


> Yep, that's my only relief too. It's been three months for me and I still take Zzzquil just to get to sleep ASAP when the depression comes on full throttle.
> 
> I'm going through the same stuff my friend and also posted on this forum if you wanna read my story. Like your wife, my husband has showed nothing but rage since I found pics of his Harlot. We don't even talk about our relationship anymore. Well, he doesn't want to talk anyway, but every now and then I'll bring it up mildly.
> 
> ...


Whoops, just saw that you had posted this back in December. I thought you posted starting today! Well, hopefully my link referral will help you anyway, in some way. I'm glad your feelings have turned better, and hope you are do even better in the future! 

-LoveSprite


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

OK, so my contact with her has been limited to strictly getting my mail, bills, etc. Pretty much doing the 180 for a month now. No begging, no crying, pretty much stone cold.

So last night she sends me a text: 

"Hey Have a happy birthday tomorrow to you and your mom."
(my mom and I have the same birthday) I replied: "Thank you."

This morning she sends another text: "Happy Birthday (my name)! Please tell your mom I said Happy Birthday!" I did not reply.

Why on earth would she send TWO messages like that with all that is going on. It seems really weird.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

She wants a response from you to feed her ego. Plus, you ignoring her makes you more attractive. I wouldn't be surprise if she tries and hooks you back in. Best thing to do is keep ignoring her. It has nothing to do with loving you, but biology of attraction. Most likely if you do not respond to her, and keep treating her like someone you use to know, she will keep bothering you. Highly egotistical people need their ego constantly stroked.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ignore it, ignore it, ignore it.

You already acknowledged the birthday wishes. That is it. Seems she is missing having you at her beck and call. This is not evidence of anything else.
It is ONLY a text.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I was doing SO WELL moving forward the last few weeks. Feeling a lot better. Trying to put this behind me. I can stay here at my mom's as long as I want, However, I'd like to get my own place. She lives in a 55+ Condo community and although it is ok with the association rules for me to be here, she is starting to get questions from the neighbors. She doesn't care, but I feel kind of uncomfortable about it. Plus I'll have a tough time getting dates if I am a 40 year old living with my mom. lol

I started to look for places to rent and I got really depressed, *big time!*  
I started to miss my house because the places I looked at in my budget are in the bad part of town and run down.

My house was really nice and comfortable. Nice area, big lot with view, pool, quiet, peaceful. I miss the rest I was able to get there. And now I am faced with a dingy bachelor apartment, in a part of town where the likelihood my car will get stolen is high. I even looked at getting a trailer in a mobile home park but I checked the Megan's laws website and it has a lot of convicts living there . It's like I am starting all over again just out of college, but in some ways worse. I think this week, I was at my lowest point ever. 

I was so down about it that I had a really weak moment, And I called her to explain what I was going through and to float the idea of me moving back. I told her about the housing options I looked at and she KNOWS how bad those areas are. She said that I could come back, but that I could not talk to her, not work from home at all, touch her, or ask her whereabouts if I came back to live there.

Further, she went on to say that she did not understand why I was not making more money than I am currently making or have been over the last year. And that if I didn't spend so much time watching tv and being lazy and unproductive that I would not be in this situation. 

Now she is so convincing when she gives me the reasons on why I ruined the marriage. And she has gone over this list (that seems to be growing) with me on several occasions since I left. And she is so convincing with the reasons that she gives that I tend to believe them. 

But there is one thing that I know for damn sure and that is my business. And there is NO WAY that I am "lazy and unproductive" All of my colleagues in my field all know that I work very hard and I KNOW that I do. I have a very good reputation. And yes, I don't make the kind of money I used to, but this is the situation I'm in with my line of work. I am doing the very best I can. Further, I was making enough to sustain our household. Now if I sleep in until 10am but have been up until 4am working on research. I am not being lazy. So her claim that I am lazy is total BS. So I'm thinking the rest of her reasons why I ruined the marriage are false as well. She uses little kernels of truth mixed in with twisted facts, that's why it is so easy to believe her.

That being said, she said if I need a place to live I could come home, but under those crazy conditions which are not acceptable to me. I'm not going to rug sweep this. I take responsibility for whatever I have done, but I did not ever betray her. Ever. 

I know when you read this, you will say to yourself, why on earth did he call her again? I was weak. You would need to walk in my shoes to feel what I was going through. I know there is no logic to it. Just emotion. Yes, I would do anything to get my old life back. But she has changed. 

She is not the person that I used to know. For those of you reading this going through a similar situation, I will tell you that your marriage is doomed if your spouse wants emotional or physical contact with others of the same sex. I still don't think it was physical because I don't know for sure, but it was emotional. And in some ways that is worse. And if that diary was faked by her friend to get me mad to leave, it was nothing more than a conspiracy with her and that person to get rid of me. Which is terrible. And if it was faked for that purpose, what lengths would she have gone to get rid of me if that did not work? Think about that for a minute.

Sometimes, I think it would be easier financially to just go back. But when that comes into my head, I try to put it down with logic and what she has done and remember the hate she has for me. Then guilt comes into my header whatever I may have done wrong to her. Then I think if I go back, my friends and family that have been here for me will wash their hands of me. I'm still trying to heal myself. If you are going through this please try to stay strong.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, that was a temporary step back but people often do that so put it behind you and focus on continuing to move forward. None of this is easy. And it takes time. But you WILL get through it. 

And stop listening to her spin. That doesn't help you.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So you took a spin in crazy-town.

Good for you for realizing the words that come out of her mouth are not accurate. You know your business and I assume she does not and your know she's wrong. You know it. 'Course it didn't stop her from spouting crap at you that was made to look like she is a victim and you are the evil overlord. You know she is not a victim and you know you are not lazy. Remember that.
You know.

The housing part is horrible. I was lucky to keep our house. We bought this house a couple of years before we split and I used my inheritance for a 50% down payment. So when the marriage blew up and he said "Fine sell the house and give me half" I could properly say no. 
There is just no way two households can maintain the same standard of living as one. She hasn't had to feel any of that pain yet. I know you don't want her to hurt, but you also know that day will come. Your current situation is temporary, and I hope knowing that helps ease the sting.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm made it through another week. Divorce is not fun. I won't be doing this again. I put in for a change of address with the post office, but for some reason some of my mail is not being forwarded. So that is going to be a process to get my address changed with all of the vendors/merchants/etc that have my address.

Also, I learned this week that my wife may be addicted to prescription pain pills. Back in 2011 she had several major cosmetic surgeries. She was prescribed heavy pain pills following each procedure. I didn't think too much of it at the time, and I should have paid more attention to it. However, I learned that she has been getting the pills from her sister, brother and who knows who else. She told me she needs them to feel normal. She asked me to obtain some for her. I told her no I would not. However, I did tell her that I would be willing to take her to a professional to get help for this problem she has. I should have paid more attention to all of this over the years, but it looks like I have a drug addict on my hands and now it all of her bizarre behavior makes sense now.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If she has an addiction, the drugs will draw blood away from her brain's frontal lobe and constantly trigger her reward center. It means that her judgement center would be compromised, and she may do things to make her life self-destruct. Sometimes, the drugs affect our ability to bond, and wreaks havoc on our brain's chemistry.

The thing about affairs is that it has similar effects like cocaine. It does the same thing that drugs would do and that is draw blood from the judgement center, and if you noticed a personality shift, it would make sense. The frontal lobes of our brains is responsible for our personality, conscious thoughts,and voluntary movements. If you noticed that she lacks a lot of control and has outbursts, there is a high chance, and it would explain her somewhat sociopathic behavior.

The thing is, if she is addicted, and the probability is really high, you cannot help her out. She has to hit rock bottom, and she has to find the will to seek help herself. Just continue moving on with your life. The reality at the moment, she is who she is now. This is why love is hard to stop. You have built bonds to her during the good as well as the bad, it is hard to isolate the past from the present. If the past did not play a role, it would probably be a lot easier to let go.

She will seek help when she is ready, you need help yourself. Your priority should be you on top of the priority totem. If you want to help her out, tell a responsible member of her family to watch out for her. Your obligation as her partner has ended.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Update:

I was able to stay at the house for a few nights recently while my stbxw was out of town so I could attend to some maintenance issues to ready the house for sale. I did not miss her while I was there and I was very comfortable. I really want the house back, so I am going to try to buy her out.

Also, I have been out a few times with a single female friend. It was kind of weird because I am still technically married. I fell like I am doing something wrong.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Could be that you are either still highly attached, what your beliefs are, or this is a new behavior or an old one that you have not done in a while. Some people do not date again until the divorce is final, and some date before that. It is really dependent on you. If you have strong emotional response to your ex, then there is still enough of a connection there. If you do not want an emotional attachment at the moment, then you should tell your dates that. Some people do not mind dating just for fun.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Legal this is good progress. Way to go!

Look at dating as nothing more than spending time with friends. When you are ready for more, you will know.

I kept our house in the divorce, but I did some remodeling to make it feel more like mine. I did all those things my ex said couldn't be done, for whatever reason.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

First off, I want to thank everyone who has replied to my thread here and I mean it when I say THANK YOU! Especially Pluto2 and Mr. Fisty. You guys really helped me get through some really DARK days! I appreciate all of your advice and concern. Some of you may get upset with me with what I am about to tell you about, but please don’t. 

Ok So here is what is going on. I am here at the house tonight and she is here. I have been supervising the work in the bathroom that needs to be finished and some maintenance issues to make the house sale ready. I have stayed here the last couple of nights in the spare room.

I really wanted to keep the house, as I have a strong attachment to it. My handiwork is found just about every square inch of this place. This home really is a small piece of heaven. So I looked into buying her out, but that is not realistic financially, so we would 1. have to sell, or 2. she keeps it and I get an equalization payment over time for my share. (reducing her alimony). 3. I stay here and she gets equalization payments and alimony (will be very expensive for me) She really does not want to sell, and I don’t want to either. 

I suggested that we don’t rush this decision until we have more time to think about it. She agreed. By the way she has not hired a lawyer and we are working this out ourselves. ( My attorney friend prepared the paperwork (I don't do divorce cases) and I filed it as a self represented person. We did this so as not to scare her into hiring a lawyer. ) She is a smart woman and wants to save money.

I also told her I am tired of staying at my mom’s house, so I am going to stay here for a while. She is not happy with me staying here but has agreed to it. Which is odd, because she didn’t even want to see me or talk for the past month and I really did not want to either. If she gets the house, she wants me out by August and her brother will be moving in, which I have confirmed with him.

There has been no arguing between us. Just civil conversations and I have my emotions TOTALLY under control. All the blame game stuff on her part toward me has ended. She has stepped up her hours at work and is working full time now. We have been having conversations, and she is not pushing for a divorce, and frankly I don’t want one either. But she said she is done trying. But, what I want is to make absolutely sure before I unwind this marriage that I have tried everything to save it. I understand that you cannot make someone change, but In my mind I want to make sure that I have put everything I have out on the playing field so to speak before this game is over. The extent of our conversation regarding a reconciling consisted of just a few minutes and I have not brought it up since then.

I talked with my therapist this week about the situation and I told him that while I am here, I am going to attempt to save this marriage. It looks like I have until August. I am realistic about the situation and that it is a long shot. I have also talked with some friends about it, and we prayed about it. They all get why I want to try, and make sure that I have done everything before I call it quits and push the legal process through. 

I bought some books, to help me in this process. I have been reading “The Divorce Remedy.” There are some skill sets in that book that I would like to implement and I will share with you how it goes. Especially where the author discusses that one spouse can trigger change in another. I understand that I will have to do all the heavy lifting on my part. If it does not work out, then maybe it will make me an even better husband if I ever get married again.

As I begin this attempt, I will let you know that my emotions are totally in check. I am like my old self confident self again. I have lost 35 lbs, in the best shape I have been in years. Getting smiles from attractive females when out and around town. So I am no doormat, and there is no self esteem issue, because I could get another woman. Probably younger, better looking, more things in common, treat me a lot better. But even with everything that has happened, I love my wife and I take my marriage vows seriously. So I will make this last attempt.

Thanks for reading and following my journey, and maybe my story however it turns out will help provide guidance to somebody in a similar situation.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I have a friend who is a lawyer. Times have gotten hard for him and many others, I gather.

You have an outside shot at saving your marriage. Chin up. Being needy will destroy it. You need a sense of humor.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy?

Honestly, I have serious doubts that you can trigger any meaningful change in her, I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. All any of us can ever do is control ourselves. You can control how you interact with her. You can set boundaries.

Having said that I do understand your desire to make sure you have done everything in your power to save your marriage. Please, do not lose yourself while you try to save the relationship.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

Legal,

You're still talking too much. The more you explain to her, the weaker you seem. You won't be talking her into or out of anything. It has to be her decision. Stick with the workouts and take care of yourself. Live your life - right in front of her. For your vision to be realized, SHE has to decide that you're the guy she wants to have the affair with.

She won't be "talked" into that.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Being physically in the house is unlikely to change her mind...may backfire the other way and convince her that a divorce is the right thing.

Are you sure the house is not "wooing" you back?? Sounds like you are so reluctant to lose this house that you will try anything...but just my opinion.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Jane139 said:


> Being physically in the house is unlikely to change her mind...may backfire the other way and convince her that a divorce is the right thing.
> 
> Are you sure the house is not "wooing" you back?? Sounds like you are so reluctant to lose this house that you will try anything...but just my opinion.


Maybe Jane, This is really hard, having to endure where she barely speaks to me. That being said, this have been going on for at least a year now. I have my emotions under control, but I think you are right about being physically in the house changing her mind. That alone won't do it. Further, I can tell that she can barely tolerate me in the house with her.

And yes, it may be the house that is wooing me back, but mostly now it is that everything I have read has stated that if we stay separated the chances of us getting back together are greatly reduced.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

I don't think I have the strength to pursue this course of action with her much longer.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Legal, can you move back out? This is clearly taking a toll on you and any decision you make about the marriage should be made with the clearest head possible.

You say you believe she can barely tolerate your presence. That has got to hurt. And maybe that is what you have to accept. Is she willing to talk about any of this, or are you getting silent resentment.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Legal, can you move back out? This is clearly taking a toll on you and any decision you make about the marriage should be made with the clearest head possible.
> 
> You say you believe she can barely tolerate your presence. That has got to hurt. And maybe that is what you have to accept. Is she willing to talk about any of this, or are you getting silent resentment.


That is the reason i couldn't move back to the family house, that would be a pain, everyday, though legally it is the best choice.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Legal, can you move back out? This is clearly taking a toll on you and any decision you make about the marriage should be made with the clearest head possible.
> 
> You say you believe she can barely tolerate your presence. That has got to hurt. And maybe that is what you have to accept. Is she willing to talk about any of this, or are you getting silent resentment.



Yes, I can move back out at any time. I only have clothes here. I would prefer to stay here until I find my own place as it is an hour closer to my office from here than from my mom's place. 

Yes it does hurt. Although she does talk with me regarding household items, etc. That's it. She is not bringing up or pushing the divorce process either. (she is the type of person, that when she wants something, she will demand action, and continue making requests until it is done) So I don't get it why she is not pushing me to move the divorce process forward.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

How are you doing LegalEagle?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> How are you doing LegalEagle?


Hello Pluto2, 

Thank you for asking, I am ok. I am still here at the house staying in the spare bedroom. I am safe. 

I have settled into a daily routine under this situation and I am able to function and work effectively. I am reading a lot of books on marriage and relationships. I am going to counseling on my own. 

For the last week or so I have been using the "as if" technique along with the 180 in the Divorce Remedy Book. "As if" is a technique where you pretend you are expecting good things to happen. The book explains that when you expect failure, it's helpful to ask yourself how you would handle the situation differently if you were expecting a positive outcome. How might you change your approach to your partner if you thought she would respond positively toward you?

For example, how would you greet your spouse differently if you were expecting her to be happy to see you?

After about a week of this "as if" technique, my observations is mostly confusion on her part. But, she is acting somewhat nicer to me. And we even made dinner together on Sunday evening. 

That being said, she is still hot and cold with me. Sometimes pleasant and sometimes really angry. She has apologized to me about the diary. She said it was wrong to do what she did.

Two of my close friends, do not agree with what I am trying to do. I fear that I have may alienated them. The others understand. Maybe if this does not work out, I needed this to really observe her for who she really is?

I am making plans for the future without her as I don't want to emotionally check back into this situation so as to avoid potential hurt if it does not work out. 

Other things that I have observed: 

How is it that when I am living here in this dysfunctional relationship that I can function at work and be my normal productive self? 

Why do I feel comfortable here in the house, with her here, a woman that no longer loves me, and has done the cruel things I wrote about earlier in my thread?

Now that is something to chew on...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

legal, what do you want to be the outcome from the current course of actions? 

May i make a suggestion...i think you need to change your mind set a bit. If you really want to uncover someone true intentions then place them in a position where you can note their responding behavior. 

i would focus on yourself, invite yourself out with friends with her, spend time away from the house, in fact don't come home, or come home at 5 am, spend as much time as you can outside with friends, family and certainly don't tell her what you are doing...leave craigslist open on the computer or the like....here is the point, she will either not care at all...and you will then it will be time to cut the string completely or she will get jealous and it will demand that you stop...then you might have room for communications....right now she seems to think she is holding all the cards...time to play a new game.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

For the last few days we have been getting along in a pleasant manner. It had seemed that talk of divorce or me moving back out was off the table. 

However, last night things got really rough, and I don't think I did anything wrong. When I got out of the shower, she told me her phone battery had died and she needed to look something up real quick on my phone. I needed to make a call so I gave her my apple laptop. 

After about 20 minutes, she came into my room and was really upset with me. Apparently, when I take pictures on my iphone they store in my computer also. I had taken pictures of each page of that diary and she found those pictures on my computer. She also found some screenshot pictures of some angry threatening text messages that she sent me and I saved them. She was really upset that I had documented that. 
She started to cry and told me that she was very hurt and does not trust me anymore. In my defense, I told her that the diary had hurt me. She told me that all her friends and family were trying to convince her to hire a divorce lawyer, not trust me, and push the divorce forward, but she wanted to hold off. 

But now that she found the diary picture and saved text messages on my computer, she thinks I am plotting against her. Which is not the case. She said she wants to move forward with the divorce. I don't see what I did wrong.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> For the last few days we have been getting along in a pleasant manner. It had seemed that talk of divorce or me moving back out was off the table.
> 
> However, last night things got really rough, and I don't think I did anything wrong. When I got out of the shower, she told me her phone battery had died and she needed to look something up real quick on my phone. I needed to make a call so I gave her my apple laptop.
> 
> ...


Oh man, princess drama, So you were suppose to forget about everything and pretend nothing happend. I don't see that you did anything wrong.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Give her the divorce. BE stoic, busy, and continue to make new memories and create new experiences without her. It causes the deep attachment to her to fade. Do not get sucked into a game with her, it will only cause you confusion. If she wants to work on the marriage, she should be the one pursuing it. She does not need an answer from you.

You have to learn to wear a calm, cool, collective mask. Learn to act neutral around her. I know your conflicted, our brains operate on different systems. You have your logical, rational side, and you have your emotional, instinctual side warring with one another. Let your logical side dictate your actions on analysis. Feel those emotions, just not around her. Your emotions are a card in your hands, and never give her a clue on what you possess.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You kept a record of her behavior and then she says she doesn't trust you!
Good grief, now that is chutzpah.

A remorseful spouse she is not.
So, you let it hurt you, or you don't. The choice is yours.
You stay in the dysfunction, or you do not. The choice is yours.
You have more power over your life than you realize.


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## ShouldIbehere (Mar 24, 2015)

I dont think I could stay in the situation you are in. I have a child with my SO as well wife is and has been for the last two years having an EA. I am sorry for what you are going through. If you ever want to talk, please feel free to message me. I have been going through this for the last two years. It sucks, its draining, but at this point I dont care about my wife at all. Believe me it takes time and a lot of anger. Start taking time off, go see a movie, go start working out (this helps a lot). When I first found out all i could do is cry and dwell. You need to do something with yourself, start small. Walks, get a dog. Find something to take your mind off of it. Clarity comes when your brain has a chance to subconsciously figure things out without emotional dwelling.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

ShouldIbehere said:


> I dont think I could stay in the situation you are in. I have a child with my SO as well wife is and has been for the last two years having an EA. I am sorry for what you are going through. If you ever want to talk, please feel free to message me. I have been going through this for the last two years. It sucks, its draining, but at this point I dont care about my wife at all. Believe me it takes time and a lot of anger. Start taking time off, go see a movie, go start working out (this helps a lot). When I first found out all i could do is cry and dwell. You need to do something with yourself, start small. Walks, get a dog. Find something to take your mind off of it. Clarity comes when your brain has a chance to subconsciously figure things out without emotional dwelling.


Thank you and Thank you for your service to this Country.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Ask her if there is any other explanation than "plotting".

Also, could you try to explain to her how she feels and ask her to do the same. I mean speak in the first person as if you were your wife and she should talk about your marriage as if she were you.

This forces you to empathize.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Ask her if there is any other explanation than "plotting".
> 
> Also, could you try to explain to her how she feels and ask her to do the same. I mean speak in the first person as if you were your wife and she should talk about your marriage as if she were you.
> 
> This forces you to empathize.


Could you give me an example?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

turn the tables on her distrust started with her....giving her the divorce...do not let her own those feelings its your job to keep reminding her you are here because of her and her alone...and keep walking away when she said otherwise...NEVER let her own the distrust that is yours because of her...and tell you are saving those documents because do not trust her...she need to earn that back or leave.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Checking in legaleagle. How's life?


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Checking in legaleagle. How's life?


Thanks for asking. I went to see family in the midwest for Easter. I just got back last week. It was really nice to get away and see my sister, brother in law and their son. The weather was really cold, but I still had a great time. I took my four year old nephew on a shopping spree in a toy store. It was fun. 

I'm back now and staying at the house in a spare bedroom at the house. Long term, I don't think this has much of a chance of working out, but I am productive again and can concentrate at work. I didn't get very much at all done at work for the months of January and February. 

While I was away, I talked with my sister a lot about this and she is willing to help me in any way she can. We discussed that I should set a timeframe of when this should end for me if things don't move in a positive direction.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You have a smart sister. I like her.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

legaleagle said:


> I'm back now and staying at the house in a spare bedroom at the house. Long term, I don't think this has much of a chance of working out, but I am productive again and can concentrate at work. I didn't get very much at all done at work for the months of January and February.
> 
> While I was away, I talked with my sister a lot about this and she is willing to help me in any way she can. We discussed that I should set a timeframe of when this should end for me if things don't move in a positive direction.


Damn right. Some situations call for a monkey wrench to be thrown into the machinery, and this sure sounds like one.

By your user name, I'm going to assume that you're either a lawyer or a paralegal. Say you've got a case that's going no where because the other side is content with letting the file collect dust. It doesn't bother them, the status quo is fine with them, and they sure don't care that it's bothering you. So what do you do? Maybe a DWOP motion, or a motion for a summary judgment, or maybe a motion to compel discovery if they've been lazy on that end. You take some ACTION that compels them to do something, because anything is better than the status quo.

So shake up your status quo. File for divorce. Force her to do SOMETHING. Because setting a fire under her to either get serious about the marriage or get serious about divorce is a lot better for you than the limbo you're in now.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

legaleagle said:


> For the last few days we have been getting along in a pleasant manner. It had seemed that talk of divorce or me moving back out was off the table.
> 
> However, last night things got really rough, and I don't think I did anything wrong. When I got out of the shower, she told me her phone battery had died and she needed to look something up real quick on my phone. I needed to make a call so I gave her my apple laptop.
> 
> ...


What I meant by suggesting a conversation to build empathy. Right now the two of you are thinking about your own hurt. However, you are hanging on to your marriage by the skin of your teeth. That goes for both of you.

Are you good a cooking anything that she likes to eat? Why not tell her that you would like to make her dinner and that afterwards you would like to try an experiment.

Make a little list of controversies in your relationship (housework, sex, money, family, career, etc are typical). You then take turns with the egg timer on set on two minutes, for example. You speak about her sex life, using the first person. Put yourself in her place and speak as if you were her, telling the truth about how she felt about having sex with you. 

After both of you have covered a subject, you then get to critique each other. Did you get it right.

The purpose is not to argue but to put yourself in the other person's shoes. If you can correctly summarize her feelings, even if you find her position unfair, you have given her the opportunity to see that you get it and vice a versa.

Also, this type of role play tends to be quite funny.

I think you can see that this is related to the technique of treating your spouse as if you expected a positive reaction.

Don't file for divorce just yet. But nonetheless you need to create some positive dynamic.

The fact that your wife is spying on you means she is searching for a reason to stay.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> What I meant by suggesting a conversation to build empathy. Right now the two of you are thinking about your own hurt. However, you are hanging on to your marriage by the skin of your teeth. That goes for both of you.
> 
> Are you good a cooking anything that she likes to eat? Why not tell her that you would like to make her dinner and that afterwards you would like to try an experiment.
> 
> ...


Guess I see this differently.

The role playing is difficult, and downright painful if both parties aren't committed to make the marriage work. All I can related to is my limited experience with my ex, who became mocking and abusive-of course he was abusive going in. I don't think Leagle's wife is the same, but she has shown a distinct lack of caring and respect towards him. The purpose of the exercise might not BE to argue, but doing this outside of MC could quickly devolve into arguing.

I completely disagree that her spying means she's searching for a reason to stay. It could just as easily be an attempt to find information, a power play, control. None of which necessarily has anything to do with trying to find a reason to stay.

But like I said, we see this differently.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> The fact that your wife is spying on you means she is searching for a reason to stay.


I see it as her searching for another reason to hate him.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Don't file for divorce just yet. But nonetheless you need to create some positive dynamic.
> 
> The fact that your wife is spying on you means she is searching for a reason to stay.





Pluto2 said:


> Guess I see this differently.
> 
> I completely disagree that her spying means she's searching for a reason to stay. It could just as easily be an attempt to find information, a power play, control. None of which necessarily has anything to do with trying to find a reason to stay.
> 
> But like I said, we see this differently.





Ceegee said:


> I see it as her searching for another reason to hate him.


Thank all of you for your input above. Was she searching for a reason to hate me? Another power play? Or searching for a reason to stay? You all raise valid perspectives. And that is the great thing about this forum to get insight and perspectives from others. The questions is, which one is it? 

I have read that you really can't trust anything your spouse says during these times, you have to look at their actions to determine their true intent. 

Over the last few weeks, I have been doing a lot of thinking and observing to determine her true intent. I want to give this situation some more time for observation. It also seems that I need to do some more work on myself to prepare for what will most likely be the outcome. That being said, I don't regret the decision that I have made to return to the house for the time being.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

legaleagle said:


> Thank all of you for your input above. Was she searching for a reason to hate me? Another power play? Or searching for a reason to stay? You all raise valid perspectives. And that is the great thing about this forum to get insight and perspectives from others. The questions is, which one is it?
> 
> Over the last few weeks, I have been doing a lot of thinking and observing to determine her true intent. I want to give this situation some more time for observation. It also seems that I need to do some more work on myself to prepare for what will most likely be the outcome. That being said, I don't regret the decision that I have made to return to the house for the time being.


Legaleagle 

I am a latecomer to your thread, but I have followed it over the last few months. May I suggest you approach your wife with the idea of going to Retrouvaille? I'll leave you with the task of finding out all about it, but I know of couples who have gone and have reported back that it improved their marriage. You both have to commit to doing all the exercises and the post meeting follow-ups. But I think this will accomplish either one of two things:
1. Since this suggestion will come out of "left field" it will demonstrate that you are serious about saving your marriage. It is a demonstration of good faith on you part; or
2. If she rejects your suggestion. it only reveals that she has no interest in your marriage. Then I would maintain that you then detach and move on to someone who will appreciate you.

I hope this helps.


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